# Raptors Trade Thread



## ColinBeehler

*Good Trade???*

What do you guys think of this.

Golden State Trades:

Erick Dampier

Speedy Claxton

1st round draft pick


Toronto Trades:

Vince Carter



Am I overrating Carter, underrating Carter.... I think if the teams agreed it would definately be good for Toronto filling roster holes wise. They fill that Centre hole with a borderline allstar. A true Centre, that isn't undersized and can take the heat off of Chris Bosh.

This trade could be tricky though. I am not really sure how it works with Dampier opting out of his contract or not. Possibly a sign and trade?

At any rate. What do YOOOOOUUUUU think?


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## AdamIllman

i like the deal for the raps if dampier doesn't opt out. Addresses both of our glaring needs with a pg and a centre and gives us 2 lotto picks which we could either trade for one higher one or use to give us some depth. We could target a swing man like Igoudala and another big.


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## JL2002

.......can everyone stop making imaginary trades involving Carter?


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## trick

no draft picks, no care


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## ColinBeehler

*Nope*



> Originally posted by <b>JL2002</b>!
> .......can everyone stop making imaginary trades involving Carter?


Nope, I really can't stop.


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## AdamIllman

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> no draft picks, no care


we would get their first?


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## AdamIllman

> Originally posted by <b>JL2002</b>!
> .......can everyone stop making imaginary trades involving Carter?


this is the first i've ever seen u on this board...exactly what contribution have you made?


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## Sánchez AF

> .......can everyone stop making imaginary trades involving Carter?


RELAX...

Just For Fun


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## bigbabyjesus

Nice trade, don't think I'd do it though.

I'd much rather J-Rich in there, and try and get a Dunleavy or a first rounder if we could. 

Then just sign a big like Foyle, or Dale Davis, and we address the rest of our needs with our draft pick(s).

something like

Telfair/Alvin
Rose/Mason
J-Rich/Sato
Bosh/Donny
Foyle/Pavel

nice, I doubt GS adds there first rounder though,maybe.


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## Sánchez AF

> Nice trade, don't think I'd do it though.
> 
> I'd much rather J-Rich in there, and try and get a Dunleavy or a first rounder if we could.
> 
> Then just sign a big like Foyle, or Dale Davis, and we address the rest of our needs with our draft pick(s).
> 
> something like
> 
> Telfair/Alvin
> Rose/Mason
> J-Rich/Sato
> Bosh/Donny
> Foyle/Pavel
> 
> nice, I doubt GS adds there first rounder though,maybe.


i'll take dampier he's the anwer to our bigman problems claxton plus a first round pick


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## Turkish Delight

It's an alright trade I guess, but Dampier won't come cheap.. Literally..


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## ColinBeehler

*Dunleavy or J-Rich involved.*

Maybe I'm wrong. But I think that the short contract of J-Rich in this situation is actually a bad thing. I think that if we got him. IN a couple of years it could be another T-MAC situation. Well, on a smaller scale. For some reason I doubt JRich would stay in Toronto. If he did, we would have to pay him Vince Carter like dollars, and I don't know how much better off we would be with him then with Dampier. I think Dampier could be had long term for..... say 9 million increasing a little bit each year. We would have a rookie, with our draft pick for sure. Possibly, another pick. At any rate. We could choose one of the three million wing players that can put the ball in the net. Basically. We could replace Vince, long term. Get a genuine centre, and a solid point guard.


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## macro6

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> It's an alright trade I guess, but Dampier won't come cheap.. Literally..


yep... Hes lookin for a near max contract. Hes has a history of injury problems, plus its his contract year, you expect players to play great. Hes not someone i would throw big money at him.


Any trade involving VC has to include a top 5 draft pick IMO.


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## speedythief

Interesting deal.

I think Damp is really overrated right now, just playing for a pay-out. But he is still a legit centre.

As is, Dampier, Claxton, and Popeye for Vince works under the CBA.

But Damp has a player option he is going to opt-out of. He's looking for a deal that is around five years, probably at $8.5, $9.0, $9.5, $10.0, $10.5. I doubt he would sign a shorter contract than that. Is he worth that kind of money if we were to do a sign-and-trade?

With that, we could do Damp & Speedy & 11th Pick for Vince and it would work.

The problem is that Dampier is going to be thirty next season. Would you rather sign him to a contract where he'd be getting lots of money when he is like 35, or risk having him walk?

Claxton/Harris/Burks
JR Smith/Williams
Rose/Peterson/Murray
Bosh/Marshall/F.A.
Dampier/Moiso

Is that lineup significantly better?


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## Sánchez AF

> I think Damp is really overrated right now, just playing for a pay-out. But he is still a legit centre.


so true


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## Turkish Delight

I don't really like that.. If we were to trade VC we need to get some young talent.. I know there is a draft pick in there, but I mean someone who is already in the league, with the draft pick on top of it.. This is just gonna be another AD situation if we bring Dampier in here and he gets that massive contract he's been looking for.. Having Donyell, Rose, Dampier and AW all over 30.. I don't like how that sounds..


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## butr

> Originally posted by <b>JL2002</b>!
> .......can everyone stop making imaginary trades involving Carter?


No.


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## ColinBeehler

*Ideas*

This isn't some kinda challenge or anything. But do you have another more realistic trade idea that gets a centre and a point gaurd? Maybe Adonal Foyle.... I'm not aware of how old he is. Anyways, I think that is the first step to rebuilding.

Thanks.


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## speedythief

> Toronto trades:
> SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes)
> PG Alvin Williams (8.8 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 30.9 minutes)
> Toronto receives:
> SG Mickael Pietrus (5.3 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.5 apg in 14.1 minutes)
> PG Speedy Claxton (10.6 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 4.5 apg in 26.6 minutes)
> PF Clifford Robinson (11.8 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 3.3 apg in 34.7 minutes)
> C Erick Dampier (12.3 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 32.5 minutes)
> 35th Pick in 2004 Draft
> 
> TRADE ACCEPTED
> 
> _Due to Toronto and Golden State being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Toronto and Golden State had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement._



Harris/Claxton/Burks
Rose/Pietrus
Marshall/Peterson/Murray
Bosh/Varejao
Dampier/Robinson

IR: Rebraca (FA), Moiso, Glover


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## Edajevol

> Originally posted by <b>JL2002</b>!
> .......can everyone stop making imaginary trades involving Carter?


yes... if u stop these useless post of urs


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## superdude211

Let your immagination go wild any trade even concevible


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## knicksfan

how about this trade, of two injured superstars!!

allan houston and knicks 2nd this yr 

FOR

vince carter


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## SkywalkerAC

> Originally posted by <b>knicksfan</b>!
> how about this trade, of two injured superstars!!
> 
> allan houston and knicks 2nd this yr
> 
> FOR
> 
> vince carter


houston is no superstar.


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## SkywalkerAC

how bout 

donyell marshall and Moiso 

for 

Jerome James and Flip Murray


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## kirk_2003

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> how bout
> 
> donyell marshall and Moiso
> 
> for
> 
> Jerome James and Flip Murray


JAMES and MURRAY and SECOND ROUND PICK

for 

MOISO and MARSHALL

thats better. :yes:


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## speedythief

Quickie.



> Toronto Trades: Alvin Williams, Donyell Marshall, 8th Pick
> Toronto Receives: Aaron McKie, Marc Jackson, John Salmons, 9th Pick
> 
> _You have been assigned Trade ID number 1576769_



Kenny Anderson / Devin Harris
Jalen Rose / Aaron McKie / Dion Glover
Vince Carter / Morris Peterson
Chris Bosh / Anderson Varejao / Matt Bonner
Marc Jackson / Jerome Moiso

IR: John Salmons, Zeljko Rebraca, Lamond Murray


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## macro6

Toronto Trades: Donyell Marshall + 8th pick
Toronto Receives: Jason Terry + 6th pick

Atlanta trades: Jason Terry + 6th pick
Atlanta Recieves: Donyell Marshall + 8th picK


Lineup:
PG - Jason Terry
SG - VC
SF - Rose/Josh Smith?
PF - Bosh
C - Adonal Foyle/Biedrins?


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## kirk_2003

MARSHALL 
8th pick

for 

T-MAC


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## Junkyard Dog13

Carter, Murray, Marshell to Seattle for Lewis Barry Rad............

Starting lineup
PG rookie PG Nelson/Gordon/Harris
SG Rose
SM Lewis
PF Bosh
C Foyle/Dampier/White

bench
Williams
Barry
Rad.......
Peterson
Mason
rookie C
Moiso


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## McFurious

TRADE IDEA

Orlando receives
Vince Carter, Jerome Mosio + 1st round draft pick 

Toronto recieves
Tracy Magrady + 1st round draft pick

Toronto trades
Tracy Magrady to La Clippers
for Elton Brand + 2005 draft pick.

Raptors line-up:
PG-Willams/ 2nd rounder/Strickland
Sg-Rose/Glover
Sf-Marshall/Mo-pete
PF-Brand/Bosh
C-Oakafor/Arch


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## mo76

> Originally posted by <b>knicksfan</b>!
> how about this trade, of two injured superstars!!
> 
> allan houston and knicks 2nd this yr
> 
> FOR
> 
> vince carter


how about no way in hell!


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## Turkish Delight

T-Mac will never come back to Toronto so you guys can just stop thinking about that.. 
Vince has played 73 games this season.. Getting back in shape .. Houston is no superstar.. If Toronto actually did trade Vince it wouldnt be a 1 for 1 trade because that wouldn't help our team.. We need a big man and a point guard, so if your thinking that the Raps will trade Vince think about what kind of PG or C we can get in return for him.. 

I like the Donyell Marshall trade where we'd get Jason Terry.. That would help us out.. Or the one with Flip Murray... Hopefully we'll able to pursue a decent big man this off-season like Mark Blount or Etan Thomas.. Mark Blount is looking for approximately 4.5 million..


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## Sánchez AF

> Harris/Claxton/Burks
> Rose/Pietrus
> Marshall/Peterson/Murray
> Bosh/Varejao
> Dampier/Robinson
> 
> IR: Rebraca (FA), Moiso, Glover


NOT bad at all 

*~Fr¥~*


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## Red_Bandit

I would like to see us trade down in the upcoming draft with Boston

we send #8 and Moiso to Boston

Boston sends #15 and Jiri Welsch

and at #15 we draft Kosta Perovic

PG - Rose/AW
SG - Welsch
SF - Carter
PF - Bosh/Marshall
C - Perovic


Welsch still has a lot of upside and would most likely be less of a project than anyone we draft in this years draft (ie can produce right away instead of having a player adjusting to the NBA). And then i would like to see Zeljko Rebraca signed for the minimum as he can still play if he is cleared and healthy. Maybe the new GM and coach might like Michael Bradley and want to sign him again. I dont think GG should have gave up on him so soon after he came back from injury. Late last season, to me it seemed like he did a lot of the dirty work for the raptors and it looked like he bulked up. 

i dont know who else is a free agent, but im sure there will be a decent PG we can sign for cheap.


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## MentalPowerHouse

> Originally posted by <b>Red_Bandit</b>!
> I would like to see us trade down in the upcoming draft with Boston
> 
> we send #8 and Moiso to Boston
> 
> Boston sends #15 and Jiri Welsch
> 
> and at #15 we draft Kosta Perovic
> 
> PG - Rose/AW
> SG - Welsch
> SF - Carter
> PF - Bosh/Marshall
> C - Perovic
> 
> 
> Welsch still has a lot of upside and would most likely be less of a project than anyone we draft in this years draft (ie can produce right away instead of having a player adjusting to the NBA). And then i would like to see Zeljko Rebraca signed for the minimum as he can still play if he is cleared and healthy. Maybe the new GM and coach might like Michael Bradley and want to sign him again. I dont think GG should have gave up on him so soon after he came back from injury. Late last season, to me it seemed like he did a lot of the dirty work for the raptors and it looked like he bulked up.
> 
> i dont know who else is a free agent, but im sure there will be a decent PG we can sign for cheap.


I like the idea of trading now but we can get alot more the 8th pick than that....


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## Sánchez AF

> how about this trade, of two injured superstars!!
> 
> allan houston and knicks 2nd this yr
> 
> FOR
> 
> vince carter


:no: 

*~Fr¥~*


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## FanOfAll8472

I wouldn't do either of the trades Speedy and Skywalker brought up...(even though I ilke McKie, Flip, Jackson), I wouldn't give away Marshall for guys like that. I'll come up with some later.


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## Sánchez AF

PISTONS TRADE:

Richard Hamilton
Memo Okur

pg-Billups
sg-Vince
sf-Prince
pf-Ben/Darko
c-Rasheed/Darko 

RAPTORS TRADE:

Vince Carter

pg-Telfair
sg-RIP
sf-Rose/Donny
pf-Bosh/Donny
c-Okur 

*~Fr¥~*


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## FanOfAll8472

*Re: Good Trade???*



> Originally posted by <b>ColinBeehler</b>!
> What do you guys think of this.
> 
> Golden State Trades:
> 
> Erick Dampier
> 
> Speedy Claxton
> 
> 1st round draft pick
> 
> 
> Toronto Trades:
> 
> Vince Carter
> 
> 
> 
> Am I overrating Carter, underrating Carter.... I think if the teams agreed it would definately be good for Toronto filling roster holes wise. They fill that Centre hole with a borderline allstar. A true Centre, that isn't undersized and can take the heat off of Chris Bosh.
> 
> This trade could be tricky though. I am not really sure how it works with Dampier opting out of his contract or not. Possibly a sign and trade?
> 
> At any rate. What do YOOOOOUUUUU think?


I bet Damp opts out...and I doubt they'd a sign and trade like this. The Warriors don't need a swingman though, they need to DUMP a swingman. JRich, Dunleavy are very capable who can play 40 minutes a game...but there's Pietrus who can play 35 and shut down the opposing 1/2/3.

Plus, this is 100% true.


> I think Damp is really overrated right now, just playing for a pay-out. But he is still a legit centre.


Damp has been an underachiever his entire career...I don't see him this season as a turning point...more for the $$$ than anything else.



> Toronto trades:
> SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes)
> PG Alvin Williams (8.8 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 30.9 minutes)
> Toronto receives:
> SG Mickael Pietrus (5.3 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.5 apg in 14.1 minutes)
> PG Speedy Claxton (10.6 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 4.5 apg in 26.6 minutes)
> PF Clifford Robinson (11.8 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 3.3 apg in 34.7 minutes)
> C Erick Dampier (12.3 ppg, 12.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 32.5 minutes)
> 35th Pick in 2004 Draft


more realistic trade idea, but I doubt the Warriors trade Pietrus...if anyone, it's JRich. Mainly because his play has soured on Muss (even though he has improved)...lacking handles, defense, consistent jump shot. His stock is high right now, perfect time for them to deal him. Pietrus has excelled and was doing great in his play time...gave the Warriors a 8 game win streak. Plus, do you really want Uncle "No rebounding" Cliffy?


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## speedythief

*Re: Re: Good Trade???*



> Originally posted by <b>FanOfAll8472</b>!
> more realistic trade idea, but I doubt the Warriors trade Pietrus...if anyone, it's JRich. Mainly because his play has soured on Muss (even though he has improved)...lacking handles, defense, consistent jump shot. His stock is high right now, perfect time for them to deal him. Pietrus has excelled and was doing great in his play time...gave the Warriors a 8 game win streak. Plus, do you really want Uncle "No rebounding" Cliffy?


Getting Carter might make having Richardson redundant, so you are right there. But I don't think his relationship with Muss is going to make much of a difference, considering he will be fired this summer.

Richardson's defence has improved greatly this year. He is putting-in more effort at that end of the court and developing a well-rounded game.

He may never be a consistent three-point shooter, but he's scoring at about a 45% tilt right now, which is very good for a guard.

And I'd love to have Robinson for the remainder of his contract. Great defence and versitility. But not for anything too expensive.


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## FanOfAll8472

*Re: Re: Re: Good Trade???*



> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> Getting Carter might make having Richardson redundant, so you are right there. But I don't think his relationship with Muss is going to make much of a difference, considering he will be fired this summer.
> 
> Richardson's defence has improved greatly this year. He is putting-in more effort at that end of the court and developing a well-rounded game.
> 
> He may never be a consistent three-point shooter, but he's scoring at about a 45% tilt right now, which is very good for a guard.
> 
> And I'd love to have Robinson for the remainder of his contract. Great defence and versitility. But not for anything too expensive.


I've watched JRich just about all season long and yes, JR his defense has improved, but he still could use some help there. And he's only shooting a 36.3% clip on jump shots, thanks to http://www.82games.com/03GSW7A.HTM. All those layins and dunks really help his FG%.

I was joking on Cliffy...the big knock on him is his no rebounding. I would love to have his defense and veteran presence/leadership as well...

Rumors go that Muss will be fired. It's something I could see St Jean doing...but it looks like Mullin has a lot of say in things...and he's very smart (I can see him being the next Dumars...as in Executive of the Year soon). So I'll believe it when I see it...regardless, JRich is the most likely to be traded out of the swingmen on the Warriors.


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## speedythief

> Originally posted by <b>FanOfAll8472</b>!
> I've watched JRich just about all season long and yes, JR his defense has improved, but he still could use some help there. And he's only shooting a 36.3% clip on jump shots, thanks to http://www.82games.com/03GSW7A.HTM. All those layins and dunks really help his FG%.


I don't think the 4% or so disparity between him and the elite guards in the league makes a world of difference. On a better team he could relax his offence a little and he would probably shoot better. It's easy to isolate his jump shot as something that needs improvement, which it does (and his shot selection needs to improve as well) but his scoring rate is still very high.

As for him being traded, we'll wait and see. I'm not sure if a core of Richardson, Pietrus, and Dunleavy is good enough to build around or not. A lot is up in the air right now in GS, especially with Van Exel and Dampier taking a walk.


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## bigbabyjesus

I think if we do trade VC, Golden State is a very likely trade partner for us.

Golden State is stacked at the wing positions, so we'd have to get either J-Rich or Dunleavy in return, because with VC there, either one of those guys wouldn't be happy with their minutes, unless GS made another trade or something. 

But I'd love to have J-Rich, like speedy said, he has improved his defense a lot and he's developed a nice aggressive attitude, and his jumper has improved also. 

If we could somehow get a J-Rich/Cliff/Claxton/Filler/First rounder combo for a VC/Donny duo, I'd be extremely happy.


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## speedythief

> Originally posted by <b>hellbot</b>!
> If we could somehow get a J-Rich/Cliff/Claxton/Filler/First rounder combo for a VC/Donny duo, I'd be extremely happy.



Trade ID number 1577055

Toronto Trades: Vince Carter, Donyell Marshall, Jerome Moiso, 8th Pick, 40th Pick.
Golden State Trades: Jason Richardson, Cliff Robinson, Erick Dampier, Speedy Claxton, 5th Pick, 35th Pick.

That works under the CBA. Would rely on Dampier picking-up his player option, which is a possibility, or signing a contract of similar size, which would still satisfy the trade.


Livingston/Claxton
Richardson/Peterson/Glover
Rose/Eric Williams/Murray
Bosh/Varejao/Bonner
Dampier/Robinson

How's that look?


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## McFurious

ANOTHER TRADE IDEA

To Chicago:
8th pick + Lamond Murray+ Mosio

To Toronto:
Jerome Williams
Kirk Hinrich


We get JYD back the rebounder we need and we get a proven point guard in Kirk Hinrich who is young and can build around, and get rid of that bum Murray.


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## butr

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> 
> Livingston/Claxton
> Richardson/Peterson/Glover
> Rose/Eric Williams/Murray
> Bosh/Varejao/Bonner
> Dampier/Robinson
> 
> How's that look?


Point is thin still, Liv should go to Duke. SG is awful past JRich. JR and EW are nice players but not difference-makers. PF has no depth or experience.

You now have no real go - to guy and an odd mix of decent youngins and decent vets. Prognostication: 8th at best.


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## ColinBeehler

*trade*

At first your trade looks like you're HUGELY overrating our players. Then I realized the first rounder in their was pretty good. Chicago could feasibly do this. Hinrich wasn't picked top 3 or anything. Their is definately a chance another Hinrich could come out of the draft around 8th this year. Murray and Moiso for JYD. Possible for two reasons. Chicago might not like that JYD is kind of remaining a Raptor at heart and he has a big ugly contract. We get another defender and rebounder...

I do like the fact that this way we can gaurantee that Hinrich can get it done in the NBA. This way.... we don't have to question will.... Ben Gordon be a pure enough PG. Will.... Harris develope and put on enough weight to be a good man-to-man defender. We know that Hinrich is who he is. Obviously with this past draft, anyone can take forgranted how good Lebron was coming out of highschool. How well 'Melo adjusted coming out of college. How CB4 came in and contributed huge in his first year. At any rate, we can't necessarily count on our rookie pick to come through and be a presence for us. This way... Hinrich should be a realiable talent... Our starting point gaurd? Likely.

What do other people think?


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## ColinBeehler

*Prognostication:*

8th at best really isn't that bad for trading away your franchises identity.... is it? All of these Vince trades are clearly in an effort to change the face of Toronto basketball and rebuild.


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## butr

*Re: Prognostication:*



> Originally posted by <b>ColinBeehler</b>!
> 8th at best really isn't that bad for trading away your franchises identity.... is it? All of these Vince trades are clearly in an effort to change the face of Toronto basketball and rebuild.


Is the point of rebuilding to reach the playoffs and get some basic playoff revenue, or is it to actually have a shot at a championship?

8th at best. I honestly think that team would not make the top 8. You don't rebuild with a mix of vets. Guys like Dampier, Cliff, Eric Williams are vets that you add as role players to bring along youngins or fill out roles for a championship. 

And if you are bringing along youth, you don't pay huge $ to do it as you are forced to with Damp. These additions will ensure the team is good enough to pick between 12 and 16 every year for 3-5 years. You never really win, you are never bad enough to get the shot at top talent through the draft. Unless you are truly growing with a core of young players, I don't want to be in this middle third of the league. There is just no reward. You are in limbo.


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## speedythief

*Re: Re: Prognostication:*



> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> Unless you are truly growing with a core of young players, I don't want to be in this middle third of the league. There is just no reward. You are in limbo.


A young core of Bosh, Livingston, Richardson, and Varejao doesn't seem all that bad to me. In fact, a Livingston-Bosh combination could be a dominant Eastern tandem. Throw-in a wing scoring punch in only slightly older Jason Richardson and some quickness and athleticism in still young Anderson Varejao and you're not looking that bad at all. Plus, with vets like Robinson, Rose, and Alvin Williams (who I forgot earlier) to help them along, I think it's a decent situation.

And as for Dampier, yes, he is a vet making a lot of money, but if you had to have one on the team, you'd want him to be a capable centre. Most teams (including us) are stuck paying aging swingmen or point guards excess money. It's not so bad when your burden is a reliable, natural centre, I think.


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## McFurious

> To Chicago:
> 8th pick + Lamond Murray+ Mosio
> 
> To Toronto:
> Jerome Williams
> Kirk Hinrich
> 
> 
> 
> The more I look at this trade the more I like it. This trade is great for both teams for these reasons. 1 enables Chicago to gain some valuable cap room since Murray and Mosio contracts come off the books next year, and they unload a Jerome Willams fat contract.
> 2. Chicago can easily replace Hinrich in the draft if they wish or go out and get a scorer to make up for Chandler's ineffectiveness to score. 3. For the Raptors they bring back a fan favorite in Jerome Willams who can rebound and defend (and who never wanted to leave in the first place) and will be re-energized in a Raptors uniform. 4. Raptors solve their PG problem with Hinrich who is young and has shown a lot of potential and who be a great fit in running this team.
> 
> Line up
> PG- Hinrich/RMJ/Willams
> Sg- Rose/Mo-Pete/Willams/Glover
> Sf- Carter/Rose/Mo-Pete
> Pf- Marshall/JYD/Bosh
> C- Bosh/Arch
> 
> *if needed so we could add our 2nd pick to sweeten the deal but I would try to avoid that as much as possible.
> 
> Note: Toronto and Chicago seem to enjoy trading with each other
> 
> What do others think?
Click to expand...


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## McFurious

> To Chicago:
> 8th pick + Lamond Murray+ Mosio
> 
> To Toronto:
> Jerome Williams
> Kirk Hinrich


REPEAT Post

The more I look at this trade the more I like it. This trade is great for both teams for these reasons. 1 enables Chicago to gain some valuable cap room since Murray and Mosio contracts come off the books next year, and they unload a Jerome Willams fat contract.
2. Chicago can easily replace Hinrich in the draft if they wish or go out and get a scorer to make up for Chandler's ineffectiveness to score. 3. For the Raptors they bring back a fan favorite in Jerome Willams who can rebound and defend (and who never wanted to leave in the first place) and will be re-energized in a Raptors uniform. 4. Raptors solve their PG problem with Hinrich who is young and has shown a lot of potential and who be a great fit in running this team.

Line up
PG- Hinrich/RMJ/Willams
Sg- Rose/Mo-Pete/Willams/Glover
Sf- Carter/Rose/Mo-Pete
Pf- Marshall/JYD/Bosh
C- Bosh/Arch

*if needed so we could add our 2nd pick to sweeten the deal but I would try to avoid that as much as possible.

Note: Toronto and Chicago seem to enjoy trading with each other

What do others think?


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## FanOfAll8472

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> I don't think the 4% or so disparity between him and the elite guards in the league makes a world of difference. On a better team he could relax his offence a little and he would probably shoot better. It's easy to isolate his jump shot as something that needs improvement, which it does (and his shot selection needs to improve as well) but his scoring rate is still very high.
> 
> As for him being traded, we'll wait and see. I'm not sure if a core of Richardson, Pietrus, and Dunleavy is good enough to build around or not. A lot is up in the air right now in GS, especially with Van Exel and Dampier taking a walk.


4% doesn't make a world of difference, but it sure is a problem spot for him still. JRich has so much potential to be the next Kobe/Vince, but after 3 seasons of watching him, I'm not sure he has the ability to be that anymore. Potential yes, but I question his ability. I think GSW is a great spot for JRich to max out his offense...mostly because there's no star player there. When you have guys like NVE out for the season, guys like Speedy and Dunleavy are really unselfish guys. Heck, even Cliffy, who is aggressive, is smart and knows when to pass the ball. His defense has improved, as has his handles, but I would like to more work there for him...

JRich, Pietrus, and Dunleavy is a good enough core...if the W's don't have to spend a lot of money on them. Really though, you mentioned NVE and Damp, and with the loss of these guys, the health questions surrounding Speedy, Cliffy's age, leaves a lot to be desired. Drafting a point would help, but trading JRich for a pick/players would also fill holes up front or at the point.

It's really tough for me to say a lot of this, as I'm a big JRich fan, but I'm just trying to face all the facts here .



> Trade ID number 1577055
> 
> Toronto Trades: Vince Carter, Donyell Marshall, Jerome Moiso, 8th Pick, 40th Pick.
> Golden State Trades: Jason Richardson, Cliff Robinson, Erick Dampier, Speedy Claxton, 5th Pick, 35th Pick.
> 
> That works under the CBA. Would rely on Dampier picking-up his player option, which is a possibility, or signing a contract of similar size, which would still satisfy the trade.
> 
> 
> Livingston/Claxton
> Richardson/Peterson/Glover
> Rose/Eric Williams/Murray
> Bosh/Varejao/Bonner
> Dampier/Robinson
> 
> How's that look?


I like it :yes: *for both teams).


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>McFurious</b>!
> ANOTHER TRADE IDEA
> 
> To Chicago:
> 8th pick + Lamond Murray+ Mosio
> 
> To Toronto:
> Jerome Williams
> Kirk Hinrich
> 
> 
> We get JYD back the rebounder we need and we get a proven point guard in Kirk Hinrich who is young and can build around, and get rid of that bum Murray.


Shudder. That's what we need, get back that contract.


----------



## Junkyard Dog13

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 
> 
> Shudder. That's what we need, get back that contract.


restructure it.


----------



## DINOSAUR

Toronto and Sacramento Trade

Toronto trades: *SF Vince Carter* (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes) 

Toronto receives: *SG Anthony Peeler* (5.8 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.6 apg in 18.5 minutes) 
*PG Bobby Jackson* (13.8 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 2.1 apg in 23.7 minutes) 
*SG Doug Christie* (10.1 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 4.2 apg in 33.9 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: +7.2 ppg, +4.7 rpg, and +3.1 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED

PG - Jackson/A.Williams/Mason jr.
sg - Christie/Peeler/Glover
sf - Rose/MoPete
Pf - Bosh/Marshall
C - Free Agent (Dale Davis/Mihm)/Podkolzine

Why we do it?
Christie brings excellent defense with a pretty decent overall game, Bobby Jackson can be our point guard that we so desperatly need(even though he's a combo guard). Peeler will add depth to the bench. There contracts run out sooner than Carter's thus giving us a large amount of cap space in about 2 seasons or so.


----------



## DINOSAUR

Toronto and Philadelphia Trade

Toronto trades: *PF Donyell Marshall* (14.7 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 36.5 minutes) 
Toronto receives: *C Samuel Dalembert* (8.0 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 0.3 apg in 26.8 minutes) 
*PF Marc Jackson* (9.4 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 0.8 apg in 27.2
minutes) 

TRADE ACCEPTED

PG - Devin Harris/Alvin
SG - Vince Carter/Glover/Mason Jr.
SF - Jalen Rose/MoPete/Bonner
PF - Chris Bosh/Blount
C - Samuel Dalembert/Marc Jackson

Why we do it?
Moves Bosh to Power Forward where he will flourish. We get 2 quality Centers that can alternate minutes or give Bosh some rest. And we get bigger and satisfy our size need with 1 trade.

Philly wouldn't do it though unless they sign another Center. Cause then there starting Center would have to be Amal Mckaskill. Although they would be pretty decent at power forward with Kenny Thomas and Marshall.


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>DINOSAUR</b>!
> 
> 
> PG - Jackson/A.Williams/Mason jr.
> sg - Christie/Peeler/Glover
> sf - Rose/MoPete
> Pf - Bosh/Marshall
> C - Free Agent (Dale Davis/Mihm)/Podkolzine


If we can't score now, how does this help? We are not tangibly younger either.


----------



## DINOSAUR

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 
> 
> If we can't score now, how does this help? We are not tangibly younger either.


I think under a new coach. We would be able to score more consistantly. Plus Bosh will improve with one season under his belt, and Bobby Jackson is capable of scoring 16 or so points a game.

The main purpose was to get a pg, and we improved defensivly with Christie.


----------



## RapsFan

*SAC/TOR*

Donyell Marshall

FOR

Bobby Jackson
Gerald Wallace

If Sacramento does not win the championship I doubt they keep the core in tact. Jackson has been an energy plug in the past but I doubt they resign him if they do not win it all. 

We also get Wallace who has a cheap contract and will replace MoPete if he leaves via free agency. He is athletic and has shown flashes. Adelman has not sued him too often which might mean he just does not try to improve himself. But he is young and has a cheap short contract so it si not too big of a risk. 

Sacramento gets Marhsall who will backup Webber at PF along with Songalia and cans start in case Webber gets injured. Since Divac might retire or leave during the offseason, they need the backup at PF because Miller who started at PF while Webber was injured, and backed up both PF and C, will have to start at center. Marshall can also spell minutes at SF as Stojakovic's backup. He also has a reasonable and short contract for the Kings which gives them flexibility if they choose not to keep Marshall when his contract expires.


Now, I realize this does not fetch us any draft picks to rebuild upon, but I do not think Sacramento would include their first rounder in the deal. If they would, in that spot I would draft Anderson Varejao or Araujo if he fell.


----------



## kirk_2003

TORONTO 

- Donyell Marshall
- Lammond Murray
- 2004 TOR 8th Pick
- 2004 CAVS 2nd round pick

BOSTON

- Marcus Banks
- Walter McCarthy
- 2004 BOS 15th Pick
- 2004 BOS 25th Pick


----------



## AdamIllman

> Originally posted by <b>kirk_2003</b>!
> TORONTO
> 
> - Donyell Marshall
> - Lammond Murray
> - 2004 TOR 8th Pick
> - 2004 CAVS 2nd round pick
> 
> BOSTON
> 
> - Marcus Banks
> - Walter McCarthy
> - 2004 BOS 15th Pick
> - 2004 BOS 25th Pick


looking at this one it could actually work. I know boston likes banks a whole lot and for good reason...but i wonder how high they would value the 8th pick? Donyell marshall doesn't do much for their rebuilding but with him and a healthy lafrentz along with a solid contributor with the 8th pick...they could be right back in the thick of things in the east.


----------



## Turkish Delight

> Originally posted by <b>McFurious</b>!
> 
> REPEAT Post
> 
> This trade is great for both teams for these reasons. 1 enables Chicago to gain some valuable cap room since Murray and Mosio contracts come off the books next year, and they unload a Jerome Willams fat contract.


This is just one reason.. Cap space..


Anyways you guys are expecting the Bulls to give away one of the top 5 rookies this season and a guy who can rebound for two scrubs sitting at the end of our bench and a draft pick? I highly doubt it.. Get some other players involved other than Hinrich..


----------



## bigbabyjesus

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> 
> Trade ID number 1577055
> 
> Toronto Trades: Vince Carter, Donyell Marshall, Jerome Moiso, 8th Pick, 40th Pick.
> Golden State Trades: Jason Richardson, Cliff Robinson, Erick Dampier, Speedy Claxton, 5th Pick, 35th Pick.
> 
> That works under the CBA. Would rely on Dampier picking-up his player option, which is a possibility, or signing a contract of similar size, which would still satisfy the trade.
> 
> 
> Livingston/Claxton
> Richardson/Peterson/Glover
> Rose/Eric Williams/Murray
> Bosh/Varejao/Bonner
> Dampier/Robinson
> 
> How's that look?


Not bad at all. Except Golden State has the 11th pick in the draft, unless they get lucky, not the 5th, that belongs to the Clips.

I'll just put a little swing to that trade you had there though.

*Toronto trades:* _Vince Carter, Donyell Marshall, Morris Peterson(re-signed), Jerome Moiso, 40th pick._
*Golden State trades:* _Jason Richardson, Erick Dampier, Speedy Claxton, Evan Eschmeyer, 11th pick._

*TRADE ACCEPTED*
_You have been assigned Trade ID number_ *1577960*

So basically I just took away Cliff, their second rounder, added Eschmeyer, and the 11th pick, then from our side I took away the 8th pick, added a resigned Mo-Pete.

So our new lineup would be..

Telfair/Claxton
J-Rich/Alvin/Mason
Rose/Sato/Murray
Bosh/Dale Davis/Bonner
Dampier/Pavel

I think that's 5th-7th place team in the East, with an even brighter future.


----------



## Crossword

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Harris/Claxton/Burks
> Rose/Pietrus
> Marshall/Peterson/Murray
> Bosh/Varejao
> Dampier/Robinson
> 
> IR: Rebraca (FA), Moiso, Glover


I doubt GS does that one though...


----------



## speedythief

> Originally posted by <b>hellbot</b>!
> Not bad at all. Except Golden State has the 11th pick in the draft, unless they get lucky, not the 5th, that belongs to the Clips.


D'oh! I was thinking of the Clippers but talking about the Warriors and their roster. Bleh.


----------



## McFurious

*Ok 
How about This:*

Too Chicago:


+ Lamond Murray $3, 750 000(1yr left)
+ Mosio $ 663,000(1yr left)
+ A.Willams $5,500,000(2005-6)
+ Bosh $2,911,000(2006-07)(to note: I love Bosh)
+1st round Toronto 8th draft pick

Total= $12.824 000

To Toronto:

+Tyson Chandler $3,800,000 2004-05 (team option)
+Jerome Williams$5,400,000 2006-07 
+Kirk Hinrich $ 2,100,000 2006-07 
+1st round Chicagos 2nd draft pick(we get our big man)

Total= $11.300 000

What do you ppl think?


----------



## RapsFan

No thanks. I do not want to be the Chicago Bulls of the present. Only player I would like from them is Hinrich, and I do not think he is being traded.


----------



## osman

To Clips:
Peterson
Marshall
Carter
1st round pick

To Raps:

Brand
Maggette
Ely


----------



## butr

If you don't want to rebuild you won't like this so skip it and save the hate.

to Cle

VC
AW
(Cleveland 2nd 2004)

To Tor

Zydrunas (one year left)
Eric Williams deal (expiring)
#10
Toronto's owed pick from LM deal (if we could swing it)


Flip Z to Utah for some combination of their 3 draft picks. Maybe 14 and 21. (Since they have so much cap room, we would not need to take contracts back)

Trade JR to NY for Penny. Good idea Charlz. Penny expires in 2 rather than 3 for JR.

Trade Yell for any mid to late pick and cap fodder with no more than 2 years on it. DM is good but this is a rebuilding post, he only has one year left. Get something for him now.

Now all our bad contracts are off the books after Bosh has played his 3rd year.

You have the 8, 10, say 14 and 21 plus whatever pick for Yell.

That could net you Gordon, Iguodala with 8 and 10, and whatever else falls to the others of your liking.

That's a good young core that you don't have to re-sign for 4-5 years and the cap is clear after 2 years. That leaves at least a 2 year window with huge capspace to sign FAs to add to the core before you have to sign your own guys.


----------



## RapsFan

I know you like draft picks butr, but like I said in another post, we would have to resign all those players at the same time if they ended up becoming the core of our team. However, I guess only half or a quarter of the 4 would actually work out anyway, looking at the success rate of draft picks.

However, as you know 1st round picks have guarenteed contracts. So, would you really want to have 4 rookies play significant minutes for us?

Do not get me wrong though, I am all for getting the team into a better cap situation. I once propsoed a trade early last year where it involved us trading JYD (and cap fodder) and us getting Ostertag from Utah. I got ridiculed because Ostertag was such an inferior talent to people and that JYD was a fan favourite. As we know though JYD had 5 years left on his contract at the time and Ostertag had an expiring contract. 

I like draft picks too, I am just weary of having too many 1st round draft picks, considering the success rate of draft picks per draft and that you have to resign them at the same time though. 

I do enjoy your posts though, and keep it up.


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>RapsFan</b>!
> I know you like draft picks butr, but like I said in another post, we would have to resign all those players at the same time if they ended up becoming the core of our team. However, I guess only half or a quarter of the 4 would actually work out anyway, looking at the success rate of draft picks.
> 
> However, as you know 1st round picks have guarenteed contracts. So, would you really want to have 4 rookies play significant minutes for us?
> 
> Do not get me wrong though, I am all for getting the team into a better cap situation. I once propsoed a trade early last year where it involved us trading JYD (and cap fodder) and us getting Ostertag from Utah. I got ridiculed because Ostertag was such an inferior talent to people and that JYD was a fan favourite. As we know though JYD had 5 years left on his contract at the time and Ostertag had an expiring contract.
> 
> I like draft picks too, I am just weary of having too many 1st round draft picks, considering the success rate of draft picks per draft and that you have to resign them at the same time though.
> 
> I do enjoy your posts though, and keep it up.


Thanks.

I understand the fears of a plan like this. Signing them would sort itself out. The cream of the group would rise to the top, assuming some of the selections work out well. Those players deserve max or near max when the time comes. Not all of them will deserve nor merit such deals. Players are starting to understand that pure max deals are only for the true elite. See Maggette and Odom. They got good deals but not Max. Plus if our guys signed with someone else after year 4, and you like the guy, just match the deal. You can control your own destiny for much longer as opposed to the T-Mac and Damon situations.

Signing them when the time comes should not be a problem because MLSE has shown they will pay upto at least the Luxury Tax Threshod and actually more. The latter picks would more than likely prove to be solid bench and depth players. If you're lucky, you get a Zach Randolf-esque pick.

As for having rooks play significant minutes, this serves 2 purposes. They will gain experience and conditioning not learned or acquired thru college, HS. Also, since we are building toward creating a positive situation for 2 years from now when hope to attract good FAs using capspace, I have no problem being crappy for those 2 years so we can add top 6 picks in 2005 and 2006. Even if you don't select with them, they will be assets so you can really make waves in those 3rd and 4th years. 

I guess the point of this strategy is to possess an embarrassment of riches. Meaning that if you can create such a young core, then selectively add those attracted FA's, you may not need to sign every one of your own guys when their time comes. If redundant, or they don't fit, you will still have their rights for 2 years past adding those FAs. Flip them to other teams for useful players that fit, or picks. It shouldn't matter much at this point because hopefully a deep core has been established.


----------



## raps_luva

*Re: Good Trade???*



> Originally posted by <b>ColinBeehler</b>!
> What do you guys think of this.
> 
> Golden State Trades:
> 
> Erick Dampier
> 
> Speedy Claxton
> 
> 1st round draft pick
> 
> 
> Toronto Trades:
> 
> Vince Carter
> 
> 
> 
> Am I overrating Carter, underrating Carter.... I think if the teams agreed it would definately be good for Toronto filling roster holes wise. They fill that Centre hole with a borderline allstar. A true Centre, that isn't undersized and can take the heat off of Chris Bosh.
> 
> This trade could be tricky though. I am not really sure how it works with Dampier opting out of his contract or not. Possibly a sign and trade?
> 
> At any rate. What do YOOOOOUUUUU think?


Nooooooooooo way! There is no way we can trade Carter. He is way to valuable for this team, and until we win an NBA championship, we should keep him. He is our franchise player. He has done too much. We cannot trade him:no: However, I would not mind Erick Dampier and Speedy Claxton coming to play here. I would actually love to have them here, but not for Carter!


----------



## speedythief

1. Trade ID 1578663...

Toronto Trades: 8th Pick, Donyell Marshall
Seattle Trades: 12th Pick, Antonio Daniels, Vladmir Radmanovic, Reggie Evans


2. Toronto Drafts...

Devin Harris (12th)
Darius Rice (40th)


3. Toronto Signs...

Kenny Anderson (Vet. Min.)
Mark Blount (65% of MLE [$3.575M])
Zeljko Rebraca (35% of MLE [$1.925M])
Morris Peterson


Daniels/Harris/Anderson
Rose/Williams
Carter/Peterson/Rice
Bosh/Radmanovic/Evans
Blount/Rebraca/Moiso


----------



## butr

Not bad Speedy.

I don't know that you would get Blount that cheaply though. Someone will give him the full exception.


----------



## speedythief

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> Not bad Speedy.
> 
> I don't know that you would get Blount that cheaply though. Someone will give him the full exception.


Maybe. I don't know if there is a team out there that would offer him close to $6M based on a season where he averaged 10/7, but if there is, more power to him for suckering them.


----------



## butr

There is always a sucker. See Orlando and Juwan Howard. Aww man that deal makes me sick.


----------



## spuriousjones

greetings fellow craptor fans

here's my first contribution to the trade-jammer braintrust:

this deal is prefaced by my belief that Donyell Marshall will leave toronto next summer

TO INDY:
Donyell Marshall
2004/05: $4,545,000
Lammond Murray
2004/05: $4,450,000
2005/06: $4,875,000
Milt Palacio
1yr option $850,000i-$1,200,000sih

TO TORONTO:
Scot Pollard
2004/05: $5,792,250
2005/06: $6,274,937
Jonathan Bender
2004/05: $6,390,000 
2005/06: $7,100,000
2006/07: $7,810,000
2004 1st round pick, no.30 overall (select Chris Duhon)

Rose/Duhon*/strickland^
Carter/Williams/Glover^
Bender/Peterson^
Bosh/Mioso/Bonner
Pollard/Ramos*/Garnett*
one spot left available for flexibility
* = pick
^ = resigned FA

i believe Duhon will be a good distributing point guard who can defend the perimiter. this helps ensure we can grab him and locks him in rather than losing him after a couple years from 2nd rounder non-rights. bender can start for us, adding height, scoring, and an improving game. pollard (who can't get more than scraps he's being far overpaid for) can actually start in toronto. assuming we get a coach (come on nellie!) that uses a more open gameflow, pollard can regain at least some of his sacramento form.

marshall is a very good compliment for their jermaine, artest, harrington, croshere forward. murray brings them added depth and outside scoring at the 3 and 2. palacio can be jettisoned or held for a 3rd-string backup where he'd be a better than most at that player. indy is under a very heavy salary burden. one of Bender + Harrington has to go. bender, more expensive and contributing less is the obvious choice.


----------



## Sánchez AF

> Toronto Trades: 8th Pick, Donyell Marshall
> Seattle Trades: 12th Pick, Antonio Daniels, Vladmir Radmanovic, Reggie Evans
> 
> 
> 2. Toronto Drafts...
> 
> Devin Harris (12th)
> Darius Rice (40th)
> 
> 
> 3. Toronto Signs...
> 
> Kenny Anderson (Vet. Min.)
> Mark Blount (65% of MLE [$3.575M])
> Zeljko Rebraca (35% of MLE [$1.925M])
> Morris Peterson
> 
> 
> Daniels/Harris/Anderson
> Rose/Williams
> Carter/Peterson/Rice
> Bosh/Radmanovic/Evans
> Blount/Rebraca/Moiso


great trade speedy 

*~Fr¥~*


----------



## kirk_2003

> Originally posted by <b>spuriousjones</b>!
> greetings fellow craptor fans


 dont post here if your're calling us crap.


----------



## Goku

> Originally posted by <b>spuriousjones</b>!
> greetings fellow craptor fans
> 
> here's my first contribution to the trade-jammer braintrust:
> 
> this deal is prefaced by my belief that Donyell Marshall will leave toronto next summer
> 
> TO INDY:
> Donyell Marshall
> 2004/05: $4,545,000
> Lammond Murray
> 2004/05: $4,450,000
> 2005/06: $4,875,000
> Milt Palacio
> 1yr option $850,000i-$1,200,000sih
> 
> TO TORONTO:
> Scot Pollard
> 2004/05: $5,792,250
> 2005/06: $6,274,937
> Jonathan Bender
> 2004/05: $6,390,000
> 2005/06: $7,100,000
> 2006/07: $7,810,000
> 2004 1st round pick, no.30 overall (select Chris Duhon)
> 
> Rose/Duhon*/strickland^
> Carter/Williams/Glover^
> Bender/Peterson^
> Bosh/Mioso/Bonner
> Pollard/Ramos*/Garnett*
> one spot left available for flexibility
> * = pick
> ^ = resigned FA
> 
> i believe Duhon will be a good distributing point guard who can defend the perimiter. this helps ensure we can grab him and locks him in rather than losing him after a couple years from 2nd rounder non-rights. bender can start for us, adding height, scoring, and an improving game. pollard (who can't get more than scraps he's being far overpaid for) can actually start in toronto. assuming we get a coach (come on nellie!) that uses a more open gameflow, pollard can regain at least some of his sacramento form.
> 
> marshall is a very good compliment for their jermaine, artest, harrington, croshere forward. murray brings them added depth and outside scoring at the 3 and 2. palacio can be jettisoned or held for a 3rd-string backup where he'd be a better than most at that player. indy is under a very heavy salary burden. one of Bender + Harrington has to go. bender, more expensive and contributing less is the obvious choice.


wow. I had no idea Bender was making that kind of money. 

How exactly is he improving though? (I haven't paid attention to him, but his minutes have decreased the last few years. 21,17,12)......I know he's still young, but thats a lot of money for a guy who puts up 7pts, 1.9 rbs. 

I like the idea of moving Donyell. Personally I'd rather try to steal a mid first rounder, instead of gambling on Bender.

Also like resigning Glover. And we pretty much need to resign MoPete because of our terrible cap situation (as long as it isn't extravagant)

Ramos is an interesting pick at 8. Nbadraft has him at 44. Someone is going to be way, way off on that. My guess is he goes pretty high after the workouts are over, just by what other people say/the crazy stats he's been putting up.

I don't care for the trade though, even with the 30 pick, only because I don't trust Bender and his salary.


----------



## spuriousjones

Bender's making starter money. but he's getting backup minutes and he has to fight for those with very good backups -- Harrington would start on almost any team. Bender put up a good game last night against Boston. people have been saying he's ready to break out for a while now and i think he's finally at that point...just needs minutes.

its not a mind blowing deal but i do think its fair and helps the team improve.

on the draft... i've bought a first class ticket on the PJRamos bandwagon. this kid sounds like a near perfect purple pick.

if we could get a mid pick for marshall that would be a solid move towards our future. 

how's this one:

to seattle:
Donyell Marshall
Milt Palacio (and they don't exercise the option) --can that be done?

jerome james is a simple trade but why would they get rid of him and his ending contract with a pick?
to toronto:
Calvin Booth
2004/05: $5,900,700
2005/06: $6,354,600
2006/07: $6,808,500
(he's been a bust as a sonic but has size--we need size)
seattle's 2004 1st, 12th

hope Devin Harris falls. if not other hoped for falls-- Igoudala, Gordon, Tiago Splitter; and then Sebastian Telfair, Hakim Warrick, Josh Childress


----------



## finneur

Rose and second round pick to Orlando for Hill and Orlandos first and second round pick


----------



## Goku

I agree James/12 might be too much to hope for. Unless Seattle is keeping their team intact, and want to make a push next season. (Maybe Marshall is being undervalued a little. I've read a lot of negativity surrounding his trade value, but 16/10 is fantastic no matter how you cut it. 31 is old, but he held up pretty well considering the increased minutes, and Seattle has a fastly closing window of opportunity if they want to give their current core one more chance. I also think Yell's post defence is nowhere near as bad as people say, but thats just me. 

The Booth deal, I'd make sure to explore other options first, but if his ridiculous contract is the price to pay for a second pick, I might be tempted. 

It would come off the books alongside Roses', so it would make for a nice offseason to build around Bosh/8th/12th. Actually, I'd probably gamble on that deal. The 12th could potentially land us a fantastic player. Booth is next to useless, but maybe he'd find himself in the east?

who knows. Nice ideas though. I liked reading them. I'd offer my own, but I suck at trades.


----------



## Zuca

Alvin Williams and Jalen Rose for David Wesley, Jamal Mashburn and a draft pick?


----------



## speedythief

Lots of talk about Gordon, Harris, Telfair and Livingston, but everyone overlooks Nelson. St. Joe's became one of the strongest teams in the country and Nelson led the way.

The biggest knocks on Nelson right now are his height (below 6') and his lack of "superstar" potential. I don't need to remind you of who that sounds like.

Nelson is an excellent passer and an unselfish player. He can penetrate with the ball, he can create for himself, and he is a winner. He is even a good defender, despite the 'massive' lack of height (which is, in most cases, a couple of inches). Some "scouts" don't expect him to make waves in the NBA, but he is a mature player who can help our team get W's sooner than a player like Telfair or Livingston.

He might not be as certain a prospect as Harris or Gordon, but if we are looking to get into the playoffs next season, trading-down and improving the team overall (rather than at just one or two positions) could be a viable option. Drafting Nelson towards the end of the lottery-picks could be a huge coup for the new GM, should he turn into Mighty Mouse version 2.0.


Think about this trade: (_trade id 1579398_)


To Boston: 8th Pick, 40th Pick, Lamond Murray, Jerome Moiso.
To Toronto: 15th Pick, 24th Pick, 25th Pick, Chucky Atkins, Kendrick Perkins, Jumaine Jones.

Toronto Drafts: Jameer Nelson (15th), David Harrison (24th), Anderson Varejão (25th).


Nelson/Atkins
Rose/Williams/Peterson
Carter/Jones
Bosh/Marshall/Varejão
Blount/Harrison

IL: Kenny Anderson, Kendrick Perkins, Dion Glover.



We drop Murray and Moiso in one shot, take a step back in the draft (but go from one first-round pick to three), add a reliable back-up veteran point guard, a defensive SF and a project PF, use our MLE to sign Blount, resign Peterson and Glover, offer Anderson the vet-min, add a new coach and a new GM and look to go to the playoffs with a deeper bench and some new young blood.


----------



## madman

> To Boston: 8th Pick, 40th Pick, Lamond Murray, Jerome Moiso.
> To Toronto: 15th Pick, 24th Pick, 25th Pick, Chucky Atkins, Kendrick Perkins, Jumaine Jones.
> 
> Toronto Drafts: Jameer Nelson (15th), David Harrison (24th), Anderson Varejão (25th).
> 
> 
> Nelson/Atkins
> Rose/Williams/Peterson
> Carter/Jones
> Bosh/Marshall/Varejão
> Blount/Harrison
> 
> IL: Kenny Anderson, Kendrick Perkins, Dion Glover.


i dont think the trade helps in the size department but it is a good trade


----------



## kg_mvp03-04

that is a retarded trade do you guys have rocks in your head or something??? Carter for a scrub like dampier and claxton, i wonder how much the attendance would drop for the raptors games. There is no way the raptors can be that dumb and trade for those scrubs in golden state.


----------



## speedythief

> Originally posted by <b>kg_mvp03-04</b>!
> that is a retarded trade do you guys have rocks in your head or something??? Carter for a scrub like dampier and claxton, i wonder how much the attendance would drop for the raptors games. There is no way the raptors can be that dumb and trade for those scrubs in golden state.


How many scrubs are top-5 in rebounding, 1st overall in offensive rebounds per game, 1st overall in rebounds per 48-minutes, 3rd overall in field-goal percentage, top-15 in blocks, and 7th in double-doubles?

True, though, a trade of Dampier & Claxton for Carter would need to have more coming from Golden State, in the form of J-Rich, Mike Pietrus, and or their lottery pick this year. Just Dampier and Claxton for Carter isn't enough.


----------



## spuriousjones

boston does have a bunch of picks but i get the impression they'd actually prefer more of them than less -- even if its a lottery.

i will agree that nelson seems to be getting underrated -- maybe as much as gordon is getting overrated. i don't see a point guard, nor a dwane wade.

chris paul was the best (as in wanting for my team) PG i saw in my limited ncaa viewing.

i really liked what i saw from devin harris but only got to catch a small amount of him.

in my books chris duhon is easily the best guard not getting hype.


----------



## AdamIllman

*Re: Re: Good Trade???*



> Originally posted by <b>raps_luva</b>!
> 
> 
> Nooooooooooo way! There is no way we can trade Carter. He is way to valuable for this team, and until we win an NBA championship, we should keep him. He is our franchise player. He has done too much. We cannot trade him:no: However, I would not mind Erick Dampier and Speedy Claxton coming to play here. I would actually love to have them here, but not for Carter!


A few things..

1. You act like you've never seen a trade idea involving vince carter before

2. we will not win an nba championship with vince on the team...i'm willing to bet everything i own on that

3. How do you expect to get those guys if it isnt for vince? it wouldnt happen


----------



## ron_artest23

There is no way that Donnie Walsh is gonna give up on Bender. He is a 7 footer who can play 4 positions on the court. We have waited years for him to come out of his shell and he is just beginning to now that he is free of injury. If you remember, we did give you guys Antonio Davis for him - so obviously Walsh saw potential in Bender and it is finally emerging. He is not going to give up on him and was quoted a couple days ago saying: "The scary thing is he is only beginning to show what he can do". And why would Pacers give a 1st round pick, and Bender for crap like Palacio, and Lamond Murray??? On top of that, Donyell Marshall is a power forward...why would we want another one of them when we got 2 amazing ones in Jermaine and Al....not to mention Croshere who can play there along with Bender.


----------



## butr

Just put the luva on "ignore".


----------



## spuriousjones

i'm liking the suggested ideas of *marshall to utah for X and their pick* best of everthing floating... draft ramos with 8, telfair with 12... in 3 years: chris bosh is dominating... vince carter is in his prime (and jalen rose comes off the books)... telfair/carter/bosh/ramos could be something special


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>spuriousjones</b>!
> in 3 years: chris bosh is dominating... vince carter is in his prime (and jalen rose comes off the books)... telfair/carter/bosh/ramos could be something special


I don't disagree necessarily with your assessment. But VC is a guy who wanted GG to trade the #4 last year for veteran help now. That tells you where his interests are, in the here and now. He has already stated that he wants an Isiah-like GM job. Ie "damn the future to get my butt in the playoffs." Is Vince willing to wait 3 years to be competitve?


----------



## madman

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't disagree necessarily with your assessment. But VC is a guy who wanted GG to trade the #4 last year for veteran help now. That tells you where his interests are, in the here and now. He has already stated that he wants an Isiah-like GM job. Ie "damn the future to get my butt in the playoffs." Is Vince willing to wait 3 years to be competitve?


i think everyone here wanted to trade the #4 pick(i dont know i wasnt here when that happened)


----------



## dlinkwireless

NO NO NO you guys are all nutz. First off Erick Damper is 30.. Second of all he clearly said he is getting older and this is his primetime of his career and that he wants to play for a winning team. Maybe Sacremento will get him or LA. But not Toronto Second. The raptors have a nice pick in this year's draft. There are 3 awesome PG's. Sebastian Telfair, Jameer Nelson and Ben Gordon. If the raptors can get a good point guard. They I also heard because chicago is getting a top 5 pick they will probaly get Okafor, Howard or Deng. Then they want to release Eddy Curry (age 21). I would also rather trade vince for a couple depth players. Maybe just as a crazy example. Vince and Lamond for Desmond Mason, Brian SKinner and some cash/pick. Or Vince For Rip Hamilton straight up. I would do that deal because Vince is making a lot more money. I dought Detroit would do that though. If it went down We would have enough money to get Kenyon Martin. Also do you think the Bucks would do Redd for Vince. I don't think so.


If you all look at this it is not farfetched at all.

Toronto Raptors

General Manager: Charles Barkley ( he is inquring)
Coach: Byron Scott
PG: Ben Gordon
SG: Jalen Rose
SF: Vince Carter
PF: Chris Bosh
C: Eddy Curry

bench pg: alvin williams
bench sg: mo-pete (if cheap)
bench sf: ???
bench pf: Donyell Marshall
bench c: ???

WHat does everyonethink. That team could compete with anybody and a nice bench also we could also trade vince for even more depth... 

, CHeers give me some insight.


----------



## speedythief

Trade id 1580917

Raptors Trade: Jalen Rose, Donyell Marshall, 8th Pick
Warriors Trade: Nick Van Exel, Cliff Robinson, Popeye Jones, 11th Pick


Toronto Drafts: Kosta Perovic (11th), Lawrence Roberts (40th)


Toronto Signs: Mark Blount, Kenny Anderson, Peterson, Glover


Van Exel/Anderson
Carter/Williams
Robinson/Peterson/Murray
Bosh/Roberts/Jones
Blount/Perovic

IL: Bonner, Glover, Moiso


----------



## RapsFan

> Originally posted by <b>dlinkwireless</b>!
> NO NO NO you guys are all nutz. First off Erick Damper is 30.. Second of all he clearly said he is getting older and this is his primetime of his career and that he wants to play for a winning team. Maybe Sacremento will get him or LA. But not Toronto Second. The raptors have a nice pick in this year's draft. There are 3 awesome PG's. Sebastian Telfair, Jameer Nelson and Ben Gordon. If the raptors can get a good point guard. They I also heard because chicago is getting a top 5 pick they will probaly get Okafor, Howard or Deng. Then they want to release Eddy Curry (age 21). I would also rather trade vince for a couple depth players. Maybe just as a crazy example. Vince and Lamond for Desmond Mason, Brian SKinner and some cash/pick. Or Vince For Rip Hamilton straight up. I would do that deal because Vince is making a lot more money. I dought Detroit would do that though. If it went down We would have enough money to get Kenyon Martin. Also do you think the Bucks would do Redd for Vince. I don't think so.
> 
> 
> If you all look at this it is not farfetched at all.
> 
> Toronto Raptors
> 
> General Manager: Charles Barkley ( he is inquring)
> Coach: Byron Scott
> PG: Ben Gordon
> SG: Jalen Rose
> SF: Vince Carter
> PF: Chris Bosh
> C: Eddy Curry
> 
> bench pg: alvin williams
> bench sg: mo-pete (if cheap)
> bench sf: ???
> bench pf: Donyell Marshall
> bench c: ???
> 
> WHat does everyonethink. That team could compete with anybody and a nice bench also we could also trade vince for even more depth...
> 
> , CHeers give me some insight.


First: I agree that I do not want Dampier on the Raptors. 

Second: I am hoping for either Gordon or Deng with our first round pick.

Third: How would getting Okafor, Howard or Deng motivate the Bulls to release Curry? He has a pretty good trade value if they did indeed want to get rid of him. With Chandler's injury concerns, I doubt they would trade away depth in the post.

Fourth: I do not think the trades you propose work under the current CBA.


----------



## madman

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> Trade id 1580917


why do all of your trades have an ID?


----------



## RapsFan

> Originally posted by <b>madman</b>!
> 
> 
> why do all of your trades have an ID?


The site www.realgm.com allows you to come up with trades and see if they would work under the CBA. You can include up to 4 teams. 

If the trade works you will see "trade accepted" below the proposed trade in green and it will assign you a number for the trade. If it doesn't, you will see "trade rejected or denied (don't remember which)" in red below the proposed trade. 

It's called Tradechecker on the site.


----------



## speedythief

> Originally posted by <b>madman</b>!
> why do all of your trades have an ID?


I'm a robot. I label each of my thoughts numerically for future categorization.


----------



## spuriousjones

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't disagree necessarily with your assessment. But VC is a guy who wanted GG to trade the #4 last year for veteran help now. That tells you where his interests are, in the here and now. He has already stated that he wants an Isiah-like GM job. Ie "damn the future to get my butt in the playoffs." Is Vince willing to wait 3 years to be competitve?


both comments are true. and this team does seem structure to win now. only thing is that we don't.

i prefer carter to be a raptor. i think he wants to be here just with 'here' also encompusing being a playoff team. but vince isn't -- or should not be -- calling the shots.

if pheonix would give joe johnson, sean marion and their pick for tmac, wouldn't they certainly consider at least some kind of positive offer for vince?


vince isn't the problem but he can be part of the solution


----------



## DINOSAUR

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm a robot. I label each of my thoughts numerically for future categorization.


:laugh: :rofl: :rofl: that made me laugh for about 2 min straight

good one Speedy


----------



## Sánchez AF

.
RAPTORS TRADE:
Donyell, Rose, Lamond 2 rd. pick. this year.
 

SONICS TRADE:
Vla. Radman, Potapenko,Flip Murray, Cap Filler.
  

Draft P. J. Ramos


Raptors 2004/2005

PG-Flip Murray/Alvin/Kenny Anderson
SG-Vince/Mason JR.
SF-Radman/Mo.P.
PF-Bosh/E. Thomas
C-Potapenko/Ramos

Potapenko can give us solid 15 mpg. at Center and Thomas the Rest of the game Ramos can't be starter in his first year he need to develop Maybe in 2 or 3 yrs. he could be a great Center for us he and Bosh in the future wow !!!


----------



## Sánchez AF

*I don't know if this can happen but ...*

.
RAPTORS TRADE:
Donyell, Rose, #8 pick. this year. Future first round pick
 

JAZZ TRADE:
AK-47. Raul Lopez, 14 pick this year
  

Draft Kosta Perovic


Raptors 2004/2005

PG-Raul Lopez/Alvin
SG-Vince/Lamond/Mason JR.
SF-AK-47/Mo.P./
PF-Bosh/Moiso
C-Ethan Thomas/Kosta Perovic


----------



## kirk_2003

not bad of a deal for the RAPS. but the JAZZ is rebuilding and would not take on ROSE's heavy contract. :yes:


----------



## spuriousjones

i'd LOVE to have AK on this team but see no chance of it happening. he's their future, like bosh is ours


----------



## Red_Bandit

is there any chance that utah trades Aleksandar Pavlovic now due to the logjam at SG/SF (Giricek, Harping, Kirilenko, Bell)? 

Pavlovic and #14

for #8

we then draft Perovic at 14 and Marcelo Huertas in the second round. For some reason i just believe that Huertas will be a very good PG in the league and would be a real steal in the 2nd round.


----------



## Junkyard Dog13

After lot of tought best to keep Carter as we will not get a player that will be as good in return.

We could package Rose and Marshell but then we lose a lot of leadership.

Lets bring in a good interior C and a back up big men as well and have Harris/Gordopn as the PG and see if the new coach can get more out of the crew than O'Niel did.


----------



## spuriousjones

the only thing we'll get for rose is worse player(s) and contracts. rose's deal is a monster. we could get grant hill for him, maybe penny


----------



## bigbabyjesus

*Re: I don't know if this can happen but ...*



> Originally posted by <b>Carter182</b>!
> .
> RAPTORS TRADE:
> Donyell, Rose, #8 pick. this year. Future first round pick
> 
> 
> JAZZ TRADE:
> AK-47. Raul Lopez, 14 pick this year
> 
> 
> Draft Kosta Perovic
> 
> 
> Raptors 2004/2005
> 
> PG-Raul Lopez/Alvin
> SG-Vince/Lamond/Mason JR.
> SF-AK-47/Mo.P./
> PF-Bosh/Moiso
> C-Ethan Thomas/Kosta Perovic


I wish. I bet Utah wouldn't even do VC for AK47 straight up, so talking about getting Kirilenko, without giving up VC or Bosh is laughable.

I wonder if Utah would do VC for AK47, 14th pick. I doubt it, but I'd definetly do it from a raps standpoint.

If we draft Biedrins at 8, and Telfair at 14. 

Telfair/Alvin
Rose/Mason
AK47/Mo-Pete
Bosh/Donny
E.Thomas/Biedrins


----------



## madman

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm a robot. I label each of my thoughts numerically for future categorization.


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


----------



## madman

Toronto trades: PG Alvin Williams (8.8 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 30.9 minutes) 
SF Lamond Murray (6.0 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.9 apg in 15.7 minutes) 

Toronto receives: PF Danny Fortson (3.9 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.1 minutes) 
PG Steve Nash (14.5 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 8.8 apg in 33.5 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: +3.6 ppg, +2.1 rpg, and +4.1 apg. 

Dallas trades: PF Danny Fortson (3.9 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.1 minutes) 
PG Steve Nash (14.5 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 8.8 apg in 33.5 minutes) 

Dallas receives: PG Alvin Williams (8.8 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 56 games) 
SF Lamond Murray (6.0 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.9 apg in 33 games) 
Change in team outlook: -3.6 ppg, -2.1 rpg, and -4.1 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED
---------------------------------
first one dont laugh


----------



## spuriousjones

*Re: Re: I don't know if this can happen but ...*



> Originally posted by <b>hellbot</b>!
> 
> 
> I wish. I bet Utah wouldn't even do VC for AK47 straight up, so talking about getting Kirilenko, without giving up VC or Bosh is laughable.
> 
> I wonder if Utah would do *VC for AK47, 14th pick*. I doubt it, but I'd definetly do it from a raps standpoint.
> 
> If we draft Biedrins at 8, and Telfair at 14.
> 
> Telfair/Alvin
> Rose/Mason
> AK47/Mo-Pete
> Bosh/Donny
> E.Thomas/Biedrins


that's one of my dream trades!

i would definitely snap that one up. AK is one of my absolute favorite players. we'd get not only him but the 14th AND a very valuable Traded Player Exception

VC = $12,584,688
AK = $1,671,694

VC - AK = $10,912,994 Traded Player Exception

that can be used in whole, in part, and in conjunction with other players in trades for a full year -- although we lose it when (and to the amount) we pass under the cap.

an example: we cannot get e.thomas with the mid-level. but washington might be more inclined to do a sign and trade if they don't have to take anything back.

when i've thought of VC/AK a benifit for utah is Harpring. Both Harpring and AK are best the the 3. they've had touble playing them together. and when healthy, Harpring was putting up numbers similar to AK.

Vince and Harpring would mesh on the floor. it also frees up their 4 spot for a more suitable PF in free agency like Boozer


----------



## spuriousjones

thought of a great followup trade:

toronto trades:
exception (as above)
milt palacio 1yr team optional $800,000
lammond murray: 2yr $4,875,000 (4/5)
pick no.12+40

pheonix trades:
jahidi white: 1yr: $5,884,500 (4/5)
howard eisley: 2yr+option $6,375,000 (4/5)
leandro barbosa: 2nd of rookie deal $870,000 (4/5)
pick no.7
future first rounder of Cleveland undated

it will supercharge pheonix in clearing the salary for the Kobe+ summer. they lose a promising PG but already have one comming over this year in Milos Vujanic (they'll save another millionish in the pick swap, too--they could even use 12 on jameer nelson, milt is well suited and priced as a 3rd backup) they have lots of good young players, have moved all thier unwated contracts and have oodles of money plus more picks

post both trades raptors under contract:
Rose/Barbosa/Eisley
Igoudala-DP7/Williams
Kirilenko
Bosh/Marshall/(Bonner)
Ramos-DP8/White/Mioso

+one future first rounder via cavs


----------



## spuriousjones

ok...one more becasue i can't see the jazz doing the AK/VC trade 

to Pheonix:
Vince Carter

to Toronto:
Joe Johnson
Leonandro Barbosa
Jahidi White
pick no.7

Pheonix would still have plenty of money to go after Kobe while keeping marion (as oposed to the rumoured tmac trade).

Kobe/Carter/Marion/Amare/anyone-who-can-breathe would be bananas


----------



## Sánchez AF

RAPTORS TRADE:
Alvin, Lamond 


BULLS TRADE:
Eddie Robinson 2 rd. pick 


Draft 1 round (Ben Gordon) ///2 rd. (Anderson Varejão, Antonio Burks) 



Raptors 2004/2005

PG-Ben Gordon/Antonio Burks
SG-Vince/Mason JR.
SF-E. Robinson/Mo.P.
PF-Bosh/Anderson Varejão
C-Ethan Thomas/Moiso


----------



## speedythief

*a crazy one*

Trade id. 1584678

Toronto Trades: Jalen Rose, Alvin Williams
New York Trades: Tim Thomas, Kurt Thomas, Frank Williams


Trade id. 1584691

Toronto Trades: Donyell Marshall, Lamond Murray, Jerome Mosio, 8th Pick, 40th Pick.
Atlanta Trades: Allan Henderson, Joel Pryzbilla, 6th Pick, 35th Pick.


Toronto Drafts: Andris Biedrins (6th), Chris Duhon (35th).


Toronto Signs: Mark Blount (MLE), Kenny Anderson (vet. min.), Mason Jr., Peterson, Glover, Bonner.


Duhon/Williams/Anderson
Carter/Mason Jr./Glover
T. Thomas/Peterson/Bonner
Bosh/K. Thomas/Pryzbilla
Blount/Biedrins/Henderson


----------



## butr

Why does Atlanta or NY do this??


----------



## speedythief

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> Why does Atlanta or NY do this??


Dunno. I'm not saying they would.


Tim is overpaid, Kurt is probably going to be traded this summer. New York gets a backcourt of Starbury-Houston-Rose. They take Alvin for defensive purposes. Frank was hardly used this year. Alvin is an upgrade over him.

Alan and Joel are less useful players than Donyell and Lamond. A little trade-down and they shed themselves of Henderson's contract in exchange for a replacement for Jack and a mobile tweener-forward. They need to add salary badly, and Lamond gives them a little for 05-06. This trade works if they think they can get who they want with the 8th pick, possibly Pavel, Ben Gordon, or whoever.


----------



## butr

NY loses its most important Big. Replaces its 20ish SF for a 30ish SF. 

Atlanta adds contract length with LM and trades down when they clearly intend to keep their space and rebuild.

If I'm the Raps I do it in a heartbeat, but that just means ATL and NY should think twice.

If the new GM can move Alvin for anything of value without having to give up the pick or anything to sweeten the deal, I will bow at his feet.


----------



## Sánchez AF

Raptors Trade:

Vince 
Donny
#8 pick
Future First round pick (lotery protected) 

New Orleans trade:
Baron Davis
Jammal Magloire 
#18 pick (Hakim Warrick)


pg-Baron/Alvin
sg-Rose/Lamond
sf-Hakim/Mo.P.
pf-Bosh/Moiso
c-Magloire/Ethan.


----------



## Sánchez AF

Raptors Trade:

Vince Carter
Donny
#8 pick 

Orlando Trade:

#1 pick overall
Drew Godden
Deshawn Stevenson
TY Lue

Raptors 04/05

PG-Lue/Alvin
SG-Stevenson/Lamond
SF-Rose/Mo.P.
PF-Bosh/Drew
C-oKAFOR/Foyle 

Magic 04/05

PG-Ben Gordon/???
SG-T-Mac/???
SF-.Vince/???
PF-Juwan/Donny
C-Ethan Thomas/???


----------



## patiff

*How about this one sided trade..*

Orlando Gets:
Jalen Rose
This Years Number #1
and the next Toronto lottery pick if it 
doesn't interfere with Clevlands rights comin up

Toronto Gets:
Tracy McGrady

Salary's match up I put that trade through on Real GM and it went throug and I sweetened the pot for Orlando with those two picks... Tracy gets out of Orlando and Orlando gets Jalen for a team in two years that will probably need a player or two to get over the top after a long rebuilding process... I might not be psychic but this will be the most shot down trade ever...


----------



## SteveHartfiel

> Originally posted by <b>Carter182</b>!
> Raptors Trade:
> 
> Vince
> Donny
> #8 pick
> Future First round pick (lotery protected)
> 
> New Orleans trade:
> Baron Davis
> Jammal Magloire
> #18 pick (Hakim Warrick)
> 
> 
> pg-Baron/Alvin
> sg-Rose/Lamond
> sf-Hakim/Mo.P.
> pf-Bosh/Moiso
> c-Magloire/Ethan.


I dont think Hakim is declaring this yeara.. I thinmk hes going back to cuse


----------



## Junkyard Dog13

I doubt T-Mac will wanna return here, its too old for him up here.:upset:


----------



## bigbabyjesus

Scenarios if we get lucky and win the lottery.

*FIRST SCENARIO*

TRADE#1
*Toronto gets:* _Andrei Kirilenko_
*Utah gets:* _Lamond Murray, Alvin Williams, 2004 first rounder(#1)_

TRADE#2
*Toronto gets:* _Howard Eisley, Jahidi White, Joe Johnson, Leandrinho Barbosa, 2004 first rounder(#7)_
*Phoenix gets:* _Vince Carter, Donyell Marshall_

TRADES ACCEPTED

Sign _F/C_ *Mehmet Okur* to a 32 million/4 year contract.
Sign _G/F_ *Brian Cardinal*, and _F/C_ *Robert Traylor*each to 4 million/2 year contracts.

Draft _G_ *Shaun Livingston*(#7).

L.Barbosa/S.Livingston/H.Eisley
J.Rose/J.Johnson
A.Kirilenko/B.Cardinal
C.Bosh/R.Traylor
M.Okur/J.White/J.Moiso

_EXPLANATION:_ These trades give us a much younger, but more talented team. That team would make the playoffs in the East for sure, and as the young guys get better and reach their potential, that team will almost be a lock for a championship.




*SECOND SCENARIO*

TRADE#1
*Toronto gets:* _Shareef Abdul-Rahim, Qyntel Woods, 2004 first rounder(#23)_
*Portland gets:* _Jalen Rose, 2004 first rounder(#1)_

TRADE#2
*Toronto gets:* _Christian Laettner, Kwame Brown, 2004 first rounder(#3)_
*Washington gets:* _Vince Carter, 2004 first rounder(#23)_

TRADE#3
*Toronto gets:* _Vitaly Potapenko, Jerome James, 2004 first rounder(#12)_
*Seattle gets:* _Donyell Marshall, Christian Laettner_

Draft _G/F_ *Luol Deng*(#3), and _G_ *Sebastian Telfair*(#12).

Sign _G/F_ Morris Peterson to a 5 million/2 year contract.

S.Telfair/A.Williams
L.Deng/Q.Woods
S.Abdul-Rahim//M.Peterson/L.Murray
C.Bosh/V.Potapenko
K.Brown/J.James/J.Moiso

_EXPLANATION:_ Again, this trade gives us a much younger core, and clears up MAJOR cap room the following offseason with big expiring contracts like S.Abdul-Rahim, V.Potapenko, and J.James. Again, with all these young potential superstars, and major caproom, this gives us a legit championship contender.


----------



## DrFunk03

Offseason:

*Draft*
-Ben Gordon (URL)
-Peter Ramos (URL)

*Free Agency* 
-Brent Barry (PG) (Veterans Minimum)
-Mark Blount (C)
-Donnel Harvey (SF)

*Trades* 

Toronto Recieves
-Vlade Divac
-Bobby Jackson

Sacramento Recieves 
-Jalen Rose
-Lammond Murray
-Future 1st Rounder

*Change in Team outlook*
+2.2 ppg, +2.5 rpg, +1.5 apg

*04-05 Roster* 
PG - Bobby Jackson/Ben Gordon/Brent Barry
SG - Vince Carter/Brent Barry/Alvin Williams
SF - Donyell Marshall/Donnel Harvey/Vince Carter
PF - Chris Bosh/Donyell Marshall/Jerome Moiso
C - Mark Blount/Peter Ramos/Vlade Divac

*UPDATE*


----------



## Sánchez AF

Vlade is a F.A. this season


----------



## Sánchez AF

Raptors Gets:
Manu (sign & trade)
Bruce Bowen
Rado Nesterovic
First Round pick(#28) (Ivan Chiriaev) 
Future First Round PICK

Spurs Trade:
Vince Carter
Lamond Murray
First round pick (#8) (Tiago Splitter)
 

Raptors 04/05

PG-Troy Hudson(F.A.)/Alvin
SG-Manu/Bowen
SF-Rose/Ivan
PF-Bosh/Moiso
C-Nesterovic/Foyle(F.A.)

(We have a very deep team and Bosh as our main offensive target)
 

Spurs 04/05

PG-Parker/Alex Garcia
SG-Vince/Devin Brown
SF-Torkoglu/Lamond
PF-Tiago/Malik
C-Duncan/Horry


----------



## spuriousjones

i really don't think we'll be able to trade jalen or alvin without it costing us too much

the new GM may want to take one more shot at seeing what a VC-led raptors can do--we definitely have the talent to be a much better team than we showed last season. if the internet is a decent measure of vince's value, we won't get back enough to make trading him worthwhile.

marshall is our best trading piece.

if we trade donyell we'll need to get back a center/pick(s)/young talent.

sending him to seattle for j.james and their 12th is a pretty good move if we can do it.

how does this sound--
Minni gets: Marshall +pick no.40 (via Cavs)
Craps get: Kandi + Ebi

Kandi's been a bust in Minni. unhealthy and unproductive. but maybe he'll find his place in the east? he has the size and i'd say a very good chance of being a 15/10 center on our team as well as having the legit positional size to move Bosh to 4.

Ebi is an interesting young player. he was aruably the second best highschooler last draft and going up against timberwolves-quality players in practice for a season can only help.

its not trade related, but what do you think about asking Smush Parker in for summerleague? i think he's with the Harlem Globetrotters this year


----------



## butr

Marshall is a nice player but he has only one year left. While he earns so little for what he produces, his trade value is less because of his contract status, unless he is traded to a team that wants an expiring contract for a decent player, not a stiff.


----------



## Sánchez AF

Raptors Gets:
Zydrunas Ilgauzkas
Dajuan Wagner
First Round pick (#10)
Future First Round pick (Lottery Protected) 

Cavaliers Gets:
Vince Carter
Jerome Moiso
Donny
Second Round pick (#40) 

Raptors 04/05

PG-D. Wagner/Alvin
SG-Rose/Lamond
SF-A. Iguodala/Mo.P.
PF-Bosh/Andersen (F.A.)
C-Zydrunas/Foyle (F.A.) 

Cavaliers 04/05

PG-McGinnis(sp?)/Chris Duhon
SG-Vince
SF-Lebron
PF-Bozzer/ Anderson Varejão 
C-Battie.


----------



## speedythief

Trade id. 1589487.

Toronto Trades: Vince Carter, Donyell Marshall.
Seattle Trades: Rashard Lewis, Vitali Potapenko, Antonio Daniels, Nick Collison, 12th Pick in 2004.

Toronto Drafts: Devin Harris (8th), Kosta Perovic (12th), Luka Bogdanovic (40th).

Toronto Signs: Morris Peterson, Dion Glover, Mark Blount.


Harris/Daniels
Rose/Peterson
Lewis/Murray/Bogdanovic
Bosh/Collison/Moiso
Blount/Perovic/Potapenko

IR: Palacio, Glover, Bonner.


Barry/Ridnour/Duhon
Allen/Murray/Frahm
Carter/Radman
Marshall/Varejão
Booth/James

IR: Evans, Sesay, FA.


----------



## Sánchez AF

Raptors Gets:
Raul Lopez
Utah First Round pick(#14)[Telfair]
Utah First Round pick(#16)[Peter John Ramos]

Utah Gets:
Raptors First Round picl(#8)[Andris Biedrins]
Donny
Mo.P. (sign & trade) 

Raptors 04/05

*pg-*Raul Lopez/Telfair
*sg-*Vince/Alvin
*sf-*Rose/Lamond
*pf-*Bosh/Moiso
* c-*Ethan/P.J. Ramos

Jazz 04/05

*pg-*C. Arroyo
*sg-*Pavlovic
*sf-*Harpring
*pf-*AK-47
* c-*Andris 

The white team !!! .


----------



## Sánchez AF

Raptors Gets:
Elden Cambell 
Mike James

Pistons Gets:
Lamond Murray
Alvin


Raptors 04/05

PG-Ben Gordon/Mike James
SG-Vince/Glover
SF-Rose/Mo.P.
PF-Bosh/Donny
C-E. Thomas/Elden Cambell

Pistons 04/05

PG-C. Billups/Alvin
SG-Rip/R. Sato
SF-T. Prince/Lamond 
PF-Big Ben/Corliss/
C-Okur/Darko


----------



## superdude211

Donyell Marshall Jalen Rose and 2nd rouund pick
for
Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Sign and Trade),Tony Battie andJeff McInnis


----------



## SkywalkerAC

#8 pick and rose for steve francis and some filler on either side. 

i don't like giving up draft picks and ben gordon is whole lot cheaper than francis but the franchise is a veteran allstar, locked up for 5 years...and we get to dump JR, freeing up some cap space (#8's contract basically). 

i don't know if i really like the deal but there are some rumours that JVG does, just thought i'd bring it up.

Francis/AW
VC
Mo Pete
Bosh
FA

Francis and VC should look good together. if you don't like francis' style you probably shouldn't be too high on gordon either.


----------



## Sánchez AF

> #8 pick and rose for steve francis and some filler on either side.
> 
> i don't like giving up draft picks and ben gordon is whole lot cheaper than francis but the franchise is a veteran allstar, locked up for 5 years...and we get to dump JR, freeing up some cap space (#8's contract basically).
> 
> i don't know if i really like the deal but there are some rumours that JVG does, just thought i'd bring it up.
> 
> Francis/AW
> VC
> Mo Pete
> Bosh
> FA
> 
> Francis and VC should look good together. if you don't like francis' style you probably shouldn't be too high on gordon either.


Francis don't wanna come to Canada


----------



## speedythief

Trade id. 1590683.

Toronto Trades: Jalen Rose, Donyell Marshall, Jerome Moiso.
Washington Trades: Jerry Stackhouse, Larry Hughes, Brendan Haywood, Christian Laettner, Steve Blake, 33rd Pick.


Toronto Drafts: Ben Gordon (8th), Ha Seung-Jin (33rd), Lawrence Roberts (40th).

Toronto Signs: Morris Peterson, Jarron Collins.


Gordon/Blake/Palacio
Stackhouse/Hughes
Carter/Peterson
Bosh/Laettner/Roberts
Haywood/Collins

IR: Jin, Murray.


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> #8 pick and rose for steve francis and some filler on either side.
> 
> i don't like giving up draft picks and ben gordon is whole lot cheaper than francis but the franchise is a veteran allstar, locked up for 5 years...and we get to dump JR, freeing up some cap space (#8's contract basically).
> 
> i don't know if i really like the deal but there are some rumours that JVG does, just thought i'd bring it up.
> 
> Francis/AW
> VC
> Mo Pete
> Bosh
> FA
> 
> Francis and VC should look good together. if you don't like francis' style you probably shouldn't be too high on gordon either.


The difference b/w Gordon and Francis: One is an A-hole and the other isn't. Know which is which?


----------



## SkywalkerAC

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> Trade id. 1590683.
> 
> Toronto Trades: Jalen Rose, Donyell Marshall, Jerome Moiso.
> Washington Trades: Jerry Stackhouse, Larry Hughes, Brendan Haywood, Christian Laettner, Steve Blake, 33rd Pick.
> 
> 
> Toronto Drafts: Ben Gordon (8th), Ha Seung-Jin (33rd), Lawrence Roberts (40th).
> 
> Toronto Signs: Morris Peterson, Jarron Collins.
> 
> 
> Gordon/Blake/Palacio
> Stackhouse/Hughes
> Carter/Peterson
> Bosh/Laettner/Roberts
> Haywood/Collins
> 
> IR: Jin, Murray.


works for me except i don't think we'd need to resign mo pete, with Murray being our backup 3. and at least leave them blake. i'd love to grab their 33rd pick though.


----------



## speedythief

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> works for me except i don't think we'd need to resign mo pete, with Murray being our backup 3. and at least leave them blake. i'd love to grab their 33rd pick though.


Ok.
I forgot about A-Dub, too.
Try this version on.


Trade id. 1590732.

Toronto Trades: Jalen Rose, Donyell Marshall, Milt Palacio, 40th Pick.
Washington Trades: Jerry Stackhouse, Christian Laettner, Larry Hughes, Brendan Haywood, 33rd Pick.

Toronto Drafts: Ben Gordon (8th), Robert Swift (33rd).

Toronto Signs: Jarron Collins, Eric Williams, Jacque Vaughn, Lawrence Funderburke.


Gordon/A. Williams
Stackhouse/Hughes
Carter/E. Williams/Murray
Bosh/Laettner
Haywood/Collins/Swift

IR: Funderburke, Moiso, Vaughn.


----------



## Mattsanity

All of you who posted a Vince trade are totally discrediting his value. This is a trade to end all Vince trades, period. 

Vince Carter + Donyell Marshall + 1st Round Pick

_In Exchange For_:

Ron Artest + Al Harrington

This is what you call a VINCE TRADE.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> All of you who posted a Vince trade are totally discrediting his value. This is a trade to end all Vince trades, period.
> 
> Vince Carter + Donyell Marshall + 1st Round Pick
> 
> _In Exchange For_:
> 
> Ron Artest + Al Harrington
> 
> This is what you call a VINCE TRADE.


...THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

welcome back matt!


----------



## Mattsanity

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> 
> 
> ...THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
> 
> welcome back matt!


Tell Devastator that he's the best virtual person I've ever met.


----------



## butr

Yeah. I am just so glad he's back. This place was actually having reasonably logical discussions for a while. Now those will be right out the window. Oh well. T-minus 5 days until the next suspendable offense.


----------



## Mattsanity

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> Yeah. I am just so glad he's back. This place was actually having reasonably logical discussions for a while. Now those will be right out the window. Oh well. T-minus 5 days until the next suspendable offense.


I'm just glad that I have to witness you creating proposed trades involving Vince after proposed trades involving Vince over and over. :sigh:


----------



## Sánchez AF

Raptors Gets
Dajuan Wagner
MCginiss (sp?)
Zydrunas
Filler
1 round pick (#10)

Cavs Gets
Jalen Rose
Vince
. 

DRAFT:
Andris (#8)
Andre Iguodala (#10)
A. Burks (#40)

Raptors 04/05

PG-McGiniss (sp?)/A. Burks
SG-Dajuan Wagner/Alvin
SF-Andre Iguodala/Lamond 
PF-Bosh/Andris/Bonner
C- Zydrunas/Andris/Moiso/Bonner

Younger and Talented and bigger 

Cavaliers 04/05

PG-LeBron
SG-Carter
SF-Rose
PF-Bozeer
C-Battie

Cavs could use Carter like the second offensive option and Rose a good role player for play at 1,2,3


----------



## Sánchez AF

*BLOCKBUSTER TRADE:*

Raptors Gets:
Allan Houston
Kurt Thomas
M. Sweetney
Tim Thomas
Frank Williams

Knicks Gets:
Jalen Rose
Vince
Alvin
Moiso

RAPTORS 04/05

*PG-*Ben Gordon/F. Williams
*SG-*Houston/Mo.P.
*SF-*T. Thomas/Lamond
*PF-*Bosh/M. Sweetney
* C-*K. Thomas/Foyle/Ha-Seung Jin(2 rd. pick)


KNICKS 04/05

*PG-*Marbury
*SG-*Vince
*SF-*Rose
*PF-*Moiso
* C-*Nazr.


----------



## Junkyard Dog13

*Re: BLOCKBUSTER TRADE:*



> Originally posted by <b>Carter182</b>!
> Raptors Gets:
> Allan Houston
> Kurt Thomas
> M. Sweetney
> Tim Thomas
> Frank Williams
> 
> Knicks Gets:
> Jalen Rose
> Vince
> Alvin
> Moiso
> 
> RAPTORS 04/05
> 
> *PG-*Ben Gordon/F. Williams
> *SG-*Houston/Mo.P.
> *SF-*T. Thomas/Lamond
> *PF-*Bosh/M. Sweetney
> * C-*K. Thomas/Foyle/Ha-Seung Jin(2 rd. pick)
> 
> 
> KNICKS 04/05
> 
> *PG-*Marbury
> *SG-*Vince
> *SF-*Rose
> *PF-*Moiso
> * C-*Nazr.


that would be damm sweet for us.


----------



## superdude211

To Knicks: Vince Carter and Alvin Williams and Future 1st round pick

To Raps: Marbury and Frank Williams


----------



## Red_Bandit

does this trade work?

Carter and #8

to new jersey for

Jefferson, Krstic and #22 (sasha vujacic)?

PG - AW/Vujacic/palacio
SG - Rose/Mo pete/Mason
SF - Jefferson/Murray
PF - Bosh/Marshell
C - Krstic/Moiso


----------



## butr

:sigh:


----------



## Red_Bandit

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> :sigh:


what? i didnt throw in enough to make this deal worth it for new jersey??


----------



## butr

Jefferson is still on his rookie deal. Krstic is unsigned.

Capwise it does not work.

As you have it, I would think there would be no need to swap picks. Vince is significantly better than Jefferson. But it's moot.


----------



## spuriousjones

maybe its not as fanciful as the carter ideas or getting picks, but here's one:

Donyell Marshall to Cleveland for Dajuan Wagner and DeSagana Diop

the salaries work. it brings cleveland another solid, proven and really good vet for James. Wagner and Diop have slipped in their depth charts following the trade with Boston and may fall even further after their draft.

toronto gets two promising young players that bring things we need: scoring from guard and a big body in the middle.


----------



## Sánchez AF

> Donyell Marshall to Cleveland for Dajuan Wagner and DeSagana Diop


maybe if we add our second round pick


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>spuriousjones</b>!
> maybe its not as fanciful as the carter ideas or getting picks, but here's one:
> 
> Donyell Marshall to Cleveland for Dajuan Wagner and DeSagana Diop
> 
> the salaries work. it brings cleveland another solid, proven and really good vet for James. Wagner and Diop have slipped in their depth charts following the trade with Boston and may fall even further after their draft.
> 
> toronto gets two promising young players that bring things we need: scoring from guard and a big body in the middle.


I would like it but it seems that Paxson likes Diop. He was suposedly close to dealing Z because of his confidence in Diop.


----------



## spuriousjones

i don't know how high they are on diop anymore. there have been published reports of the club questioning him. and their tenth pick should be able to get them an even bigger body like Ramos or Pavel

BTW, the trade clears as Marshall+Moiso+2nd (silas did like him and he played well in NO) for Wager+Diop--if we could get their pick, or ours back, that would even better (but of course less likely)


----------



## butr

This deal could not be completed until after July, so the teams involved would have to make selections and hold them, then deal them. This is not unlike our trade for Antonio Davis where we drafted Bender for Indiana and then waited until the deal became "official". The Clipps will be under the cap and thus should be able to take on the imbalanace of cash in contracts.

Clippers get:
Vince Carter
Alvin Williams
#8
#34 (Charlotte)

Charlotte gets:
#2
Lamond Murray

Toronto gets:
Corey Maggette
Chris Wilcox
#4
Top expansion choice

Why it works?

The clipps get some serious star power to go with Brand. They get a solid backup combo guard with AW. Coach Dunleavy really had some nice things to say about Alvin back when he was a rook with Portland. So his addition would not be a pure salary dump for Toronto. He will hold up for 20 mins a game, not 40. The 8 gets them their choice of remaining PGs or possibly a big. They could then package both 2nds (#34 and their own) for a late 1st from a team wanting to avoid the guaranteed contract. 

Charlotte is looking to move into the top 2. They take LM with 2 years left for 10 million. He'll be gone by the time they are going anywhere. (Bernie has said 2 years is the longest crap deal they will take, this fits that requirement) And Charlotte did not have to give up any future 1sts to move up.

The Raps get a guy in Maggette who is very much like Carter in his explosiveness except he gets to the line better, is 3 years younger and makes about half as much dough over the life of his deal. Wilcox is young and plays behind Brand, he will get more time in TO with our lack of depth up front. This deal clears ten million under the cap this year. You could decide to use it now or save it for a proper rebuilding process. You could take your choice of PGs at #4 but I would select whoever is left from Deng/Biedrins and draft a PG next year when there will be an even better crop.


Why it won't work?

Don Sterling in LA might be too cheap to have 2 max guys even though VC would help to pack Staples. Would VC even be allowed to be traded by management? Larry and VC seem a little too chummy (from the other day at Dundas SQ.) for that to happen.

Potential lineups

Toronto rebuilding (2 years until cap relief heaven)

PG: Avery Johnson (Sign for 2 years to bring kids along)
SG: Hardaway (Rose traded in a cap relief deal)
SF: Maggette
PF:Bosh
C: Willis (Same as Avery above)

Bench
Biedrins/Deng
Wilcox
Trade Marshall for late 1st and 2yr crap deal ....(Snyder?)
2nd rounder (Duhon/Burks)
Expansion pick (take your choice)


Toronto "compete now"

PG: Nash (10 million for 4 years)
SG: Maggette
SF: Rose
PF: Bosh
C: FA MLE

Bench
Wilcox
Duhon/Burks
Marshall
Deng/Biedrins
Expansion player
MoP (qualifying offer)


----------



## Sánchez AF

We should trade down with the Jazz 

Raptors trade: 
#8 pick 
Second Round pick

Jazz trade:
#14
#16

I heard the Jazz really want Andris.

Draft 

#14 Sebastian Telfair 
#16 Pavel Podkolzine / Rafael Araujo/ Peter John Ramos 

With this we get a young talented team. 

Your 04/05 Toronto Raptors

pg- Sebastian Telfair/Alvin/Rod Strickland(Strickland can help us to develop Telfair) 
sg- Vince Carter/Lamond
sf- Jalen/Donny/Mo.P.
pf- Bosh/Donny
c- Pavel Podkolzine/Rafael Araujo or Peter John Ramos/F.A. Center
.


----------



## speedythief

Here's one that should make the "Rose is an unbearable burden" camp happy, even if we get an even poorer defensive player in return.

Trade id. 1619496.

Toronto Trades: Jalen Rose, 8th Pick.
Philadelphia Trades: Glenn Robinson, Greg Buckner, 9th Pick.


Dogg's contract ($12M) ends after this upcoming season. Buckner's runs a longer, ending in 06-07, but he is a good, young, defensive player and he maxes-out at only $3.6M.

Philly gets an unselfish wing player to go alongside Iverson and allow them to draft basically whoever they want.


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> Here's one that should make the "Rose is an unbearable burden" camp happy, even if we get an even poorer defensive player in return.
> 
> Trade id. 1619496.
> 
> Toronto Trades: Jalen Rose, 8th Pick.
> Philadelphia Trades: Glenn Robinson, Greg Buckner, 9th Pick.
> 
> 
> Dogg's contract ($12M) ends after this upcoming season. Buckner's runs a longer, ending in 06-07, but he is a good, young, defensive player and he maxes-out at only $3.6M.
> 
> Philly gets an unselfish wing player to go alongside Iverson and allow them to draft basically whoever they want.


I would do it in a second.


----------



## Sánchez AF

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> Here's one that should make the "Rose is an unbearable burden" camp happy, even if we get an even poorer defensive player in return.
> 
> Trade id. 1619496.
> 
> Toronto Trades: Jalen Rose, 8th Pick.
> Philadelphia Trades: Glenn Robinson, Greg Buckner, 9th Pick.
> 
> 
> Dogg's contract ($12M) ends after this upcoming season. Buckner's runs a longer, ending in 06-07, but he is a good, young, defensive player and he maxes-out at only $3.6M.
> 
> Philly gets an unselfish wing player to go alongside Iverson and allow them to draft basically whoever they want.


Great Trade
Glenn is instant offense


----------



## spuriousjones

Philly is way over the cap. taking on Jalen's deal only prolongs their pain.

here's a trade from elsewhere:
i'm tempted to give it its own thread, but anyway...



> This doesn't work in the trade checker, but because Atlanta and Clipps are both under the cap it should work.
> 
> 
> Hawks Trade
> Alan Henderson
> the 6th pick
> 17th pick
> 
> Hawks get
> Jalen Rose
> Dwight Howard
> 
> Clippers Trade
> Cory Magette
> Kaman
> Dwight Howard
> 
> Clippers get
> Vince Carter
> 17th pick
> 
> Raptors Trade
> Jalen Rose
> Vince Carter
> 
> 
> Raptors get
> Cory Maggette
> Kaman
> Alan Henderson
> 6th pick
> 
> 
> PG:Terry
> SG:Rose
> SF:Jackson
> PF:Howard
> C:Collier
> 
> Lose some cap, but still are under the limit. Howard gives them a stud front court player, who probabley won't break out for at least two years or so, just in time for Jalens contract to run out. Untill then, they could remain competitive with a line like this, keeping the fan base happy.
> 
> PG:Gordon(6th)/Alvin
> SG:Cory Magette/Mo
> SF:Iguodala(8th)Marshell/Mo
> PF:Bosh/Marshell
> C:Kaman/Bosh/F/A
> 
> The Raptors have three main weaknesses, PG, C and Depth. They take care of all three with this trade. The raps gain some cap space with this deal and get younger. They keep core vetrens around like Marshell, Alvin and Mo while handing the team over to Bosh and Magette.
> 
> PG:Telfair (17th or Jameer, one will fall)
> SG:Vince Carter
> SF:Richardson/
> PF:Brand/Wilcox
> Crobnjak/
> 
> The Clippers are in La La land, how to compete with the lakers for fan fare? how about getting the leading vote getter 4 straight years. Vince and Brand would create a huge buzz in clipper ville. They would have a ton of cap as well to lure a big f/a PG or Center as well. They would be ready to make some noise in the west after this trade. The clippers are a cheap team, this deal would create a huge stir, and generate some major dollars for the owner. And bring some respect to the franchise, Vince might not be able to lure superstars to toronto, but he could to LA.
> Plus a ton of cap to sign another star.


----------



## Goku

Clippers are getting ripped. Maggette/Kaman for Vince is somewhat close. Losing Howard too, and only getting back the 17th makes it terrible for them IMO.

they'd be better just dealing with the Hawks.


----------



## spuriousjones

what could they get back from the hawks that can actually step them forward? they've had TONS of grat picks go through their doors. they need a legit superstar. (and 17 will most probably get them their sebastian telfair)

telfair
richardson
carter
brand
wilcox

and they'd still have a good amount of FA money available.


----------



## Goku

just because a lot of young talent has passed through, doesn't mean they have to overpay for Vince.

If we are demanding Maggette, Kaman AND dwight howard, they should call up Seattle, Boston, or Phillie and see what their superstars are worth. I doubt it's anywhere near that.

Because of his fantastic contract Maggette alone is nearly as valuable to a team as Vince is. He makes almost HALF of what Vince does. He's also under that superb contract until 2008/9. He's also still improving. He's also younger.

No way they should have to throw Dwight howard into the mix.


----------



## spuriousjones

i've thought about this for a while. the *carter to lac* post is unrealistic in terms of return but the kernal inside the trade is really good.

vince carter would be a great addition to los angeles. losing the second pick, maggette and kaman getting him? adding vince carter to corey maggette, elton brand, chris kaman would be something!

with vince carter going to los angeles and the number 2 pick leaving they still need a pointguard better than dooling and jaric although dooling has had a few sparks. they would have to add one via free agency (troy hudson) but you don't have to have all your ducks lined up in one move.

los angeles' bigmen next season: brand, kaman, wilcox, drobnjak, ely, sofolitis. 

brand and kaman are their starting post next season. wilcox is their next most valuable bigman. he's played well. and he's played well at center. wilcox would really benefit toronto. he'll get minutes at both center and power forward. bosh, marshall, wilcox turns toronto's biggest weakness into a strength.

chris wilcox and the number 2 pick for vince carter keeps the clippers under the cap

+$32,761,020 booked salaries (including richardson) 2004/5
+$12,584,688 vince carter
-$2,210,880 chris wilcox
-------------------------------------
$43,134,828

vince carter for chris wilcox and the number 2 pick takes the raptors under the cap

+$48,671,408 booked salaries (including peterson) 2004/5
-$12,584,688 vince carter
+$2,210,880 chris wilcox
--------------------------------------
$38,297,600

toronto roster post-trade/pre-draft selection

alvin williams
jalen rose/morris peterson*
donyell marhsal/lammond murray
chris bosh/matt bonner*
chris wilcox/jerome mioso

toronto will have two lottery picks: no.2 and 8

now comes the do we trade the pick? if we could move alvin to atlanta for the 6th and 17th we'd free up capspace (to go after nash --but even with money, landing him is by no means a lock). 

we already have a mid-lottery. the 6th, 8th, and 17th would give us three rookies, two of them lottery selections.

is that in the better interest of build a championship than adding to the 8th with number 2? 

arguments can be made over the best pick. deng may be the best choice. he'll contribute as bosh did last year. there's something special about him. if we take him in a scenario like this he'll be a favourite for ROY. 

one of harris, gordon, livingston will be available at the 8th pick. with deng, bosh, wilcox, marshall, moiso and bonner; rose, williams, murray, maybe mo, this is a very good place for us to take a pointguard.

that team will win more games than the 2003-2004 raptors.


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## Goku

awesome post.

(although no matter how optimistically I look at it, I can't possibly see us winning more games without Vince here. Unless we seriously underachieved last year, I think we'd be taking a plummet the next couple seasons. But I still think it'd be worth it. Maybe thats just the 'draft buzz' talking though)

just by way of comparisson, Phillie fans were talking about 

Iverson

for

Dwight Howard/ Marko Jaric/ Melvin Ely. 

It's over on the trade board. Opinion seemed fairly even. some liked it. Some hated it. I don't know if I like Ely or Wilcox better. I actually like Ely. I think most would like Wilcox though.

Vince probably has more value than old-man Iverson. I think we might be able get a little more than Wilcox/#2. The salary benefit is pretty sweet regardless.

Deng I don't like, but who knows. Maybe he'll end up a fantastic player. He doesn't sound the type to kill in workouts, although scouts are not stupid and already know everything there is to know about him. If his stock did fall a little, and we liked him, we could pick him up and probably loose a contract like Lammon or even Alvin. 

too bad we didnt' just win the 2nd. It would make these threads sooooo much more interesting. As it is, I am 100% convinced Carter will still be a Raptor next season.


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## spuriousjones

thanks goku.

i really like deng. his contribution goes beyond his person stats. those are great types of players to have. he did, imo, exceptionally well at duke. he'll have a carmello anthony year--maybe better.

(i'd consider carter to chicago for deng, chandler, jyd) but i see the odds of carter being a raptor next season as most likely, too.

non-fantasy world best case scenario: Biedrins at 8, Duhon at 40. (as rumoured to be the team's favourites -- i just don't think Andris will be available)

i don't know if LA would do the philly deal. iverson didn't look too sturdy this year and his contract is


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## Goku

It was a Phillie fan who proposed it, and he said he heard it on the radio that Phillie actually offered it (sounds like complete b.s. but whatever). I think they could do a little better too, but not much. 

we could probably do better with the hawks/ #2 trade. Better than #6 and #17 anyways. Maybe they'd take Jalen's contract or something and we add our 2nd rounder. I dunno really, but #6 and 17 sounds a little iffy.


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## spuriousjones

what would 17 realistically bring? what are the chances our crack scouts can out do Mo? or even Bradley or Jefferies?


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## Turkish Delight

There are too many trades involving Vince Carter and the rest of the raptors right now.. I know people are excited and like to hope, but we don't even have a GM in place right now. Once a new GM is in place, we'll have a better idea of who might be let go, and the chances of a big trade actually being made..


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## bigbabyjesus

Very nice trade proposal spurious and Goku. Gives us cap space, gets us a very high draft pick, and a nice young big man.

Trading the #2 pick to Atlanta would work out. We could send Jalen Rose, #40 to Atlanta for #6, #17. Don't know if Atlanta would do that, because Rose would take up a big chunk of their cap space. But I've though about this one for a while if we had the #1/#2 pick.

So just say it happens.

Draft S.Livingston(#6), A.Iguodala(#8), and P.J.Ramos(#17).

We'd have enough cap space (roughly 22 million).

We could sign Stromile Swift, Darius Miles. Some other veterans like Lindsey Hunter, Greg Ostertag, Eric Williams.

A.Williams/S.Livingston/L.Hunter
A.Iguodala/E.Williams
D.Miles/D.Marshall
C.Bosh/C.Wilcox
S.Swift/G.Ostertag/P.J.Ramos

Not that good of a team next year, but will eventually be nuts. That team would run the HELL out of people, with Iggy, Darius, Bosh, Swift, Livingston, Ramos all being freaks who can throw it down on yeah. Undersized frontcourt yes, but they can bring in Ostertag/Ramos to handle the big boys. Pretty fukin' nice defensive team too.


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## butr

Why in the world would the Hawks trade for Rose? 

They are clearly in rebuilding mode. Why would they burn 14 mil for 3 years on a 31 year old wing player with no D and a busted hand?


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## Goku

because they like Dwight.


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## butr

Uhh.... I'm pretty sure they could get Howard w/o trading for... Jalen Rose??


:laugh: 

They could get it done for Terry, the 6th and 17th and bring no awful contracts back.

Jalen is less than worthless in terms of trades to 97% of trade partners. The only team that might consider anything of value for him is NY because they are capped out to infinity and Isiah is trigger-happy.


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## Goku

but we have more to offer than Atlanta does.

IF we are smart, and get the 2nd and Atlanta wants it....they are getting Jalen whether they like it or not

that's ma final word.

aside: (Like my favourite poster does)......Blowup is smarter than Goku, and follows bball more than I do. He is probably right most of the time, but not on this one. This one = Goku'


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## spuriousjones

what about washington?

they have tons of young talent -- maybe too much -- and the number 5 pick. imo, they need vets. yell had an all-star year last season. he's 31 and in his prime. his game says he'll be a good player for years to come. and his contract is fantastic. with his price-to-performance, i peg his value higher than jamison

Doneyll would be a very good addition for them given their roster and princeton offence

both of these claer the checker:

larry hughes+5 for yell+40

christian laetner+5+33 for yell+moiso


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## spuriousjones

i think i got it: Marshall to Cleveland for Tony Battie and 10


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## speedythief

Sign & Trade with Golden State:

Golden State signs Erick Dampier to a 4-year, $38M contract ($8-$9-$10-$11).

Trade id. 1627946
Toronto Trades: Donyell Marshall, Lamond Murray, 8th Pick.
Golden State Trades: Erick Dampier, 11th Pick.

Toronto Picks: Jameer Nelson, Lawrence Roberts.

Toronto Signs: Rod Strickland, Eric Williams, Morris Peterson, Corie Blount.


Nelson/Strickland
Carter/Peterson/A. Williams
Rose/E. Williams/Bonner
Bosh/Moiso/Roberts
Dampier/Blount/Lavrinovicius


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## butr

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> Sign & Trade with Golden State:
> 
> Golden State signs Erick Dampier to a 4-year, $38M contract ($8-$9-$10-$11).
> 
> Trade id. 1627946
> Toronto Trades: Donyell Marshall, Lamond Murray, 8th Pick.
> Golden State Trades: Erick Dampier, 11th Pick.
> 
> Toronto Picks: Jameer Nelson, Lawrence Roberts.
> 
> Toronto Signs: Rod Strickland, Eric Williams, Morris Peterson, Corie Blount.
> 
> 
> Nelson/Strickland
> Carter/Peterson/A. Williams
> Rose/E. Williams/Bonner
> Bosh/Moiso/Roberts
> Dampier/Blount/Lavrinovicius



You love Eric Williams, huh Speedy?

Nice if were out there.


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## butr

> Originally posted by <b>Goku</b>!
> but we have more to offer than Atlanta does.
> 
> IF we are smart, and get the 2nd and Atlanta wants it....they are getting Jalen whether they like it or not
> 
> that's ma final word.
> 
> aside: (Like my favourite poster does)......Blowup is smarter than Goku, and follows bball more than I do. He is probably right most of the time, but not on this one. This one = Goku'


:laugh: 

I love that attitude. "You are gonna take the #2 and Jalen, and you'll like it. GGGRRRRRRRR."

:laugh:


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## Sánchez AF

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> Sign & Trade with Golden State:
> 
> Golden State signs Erick Dampier to a 4-year, $38M contract ($8-$9-$10-$11).
> 
> Trade id. 1627946
> Toronto Trades: Donyell Marshall, Lamond Murray, 8th Pick.
> Golden State Trades: Erick Dampier, 11th Pick.
> 
> Toronto Picks: Jameer Nelson, Lawrence Roberts.
> 
> Toronto Signs: Rod Strickland, Eric Williams, Morris Peterson, Corie Blount.
> 
> 
> Nelson/Strickland
> Carter/Peterson/A. Williams
> Rose/E. Williams/Bonner
> Bosh/Moiso/Roberts
> Dampier/Blount/Lavrinovicius


Great Trade for us


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## spuriousjones

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> Sign & Trade with Golden State:
> Toronto Trades: Donyell Marshall, Lamond Murray, 8th Pick.
> Golden State Trades: Erick Dampier, 11th Pick.


deffinitely makes us better


another marshall trade:

to Detroit: Donyell Marshall, pick no.8
to Toronto: Darko Milicic

(cash difference to Detroit is +$679,560 who are under the cap)

Donyell fits Dumars' player ability, contract, contribution philosophy. adding Marshall betters Brown's options (and adds important scoring). they will have the money to bring back Wallace and Okur. it enables keeping keeping both of them, especially Okur-- removing Darko's spector betters Detroits hand.

Dumars speaks confidently about Darko but people are restless. they didn't wait on Rodney White. he was an
impatient talent and was gone. this year's 8th pick (Detroit doesn't have a first reound pick) can bring them an excellent backup pointguard who can score-- that'd be a huge advance for them. or a switchblade guy like Igoudala or even a bigman.

Darko can be a great nba bigman but he needs PT to get there. he won't get it in Detroit, with Brown, not with Wallace, Wallace, Okur, Williamson, Campbell there. he will get it in Toronto with [insert name] even if he has to get it by default.

Bosh and Millicic could become a great, even dominant frontcourt.


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## Sánchez AF

> Originally posted by <b>spuriousjones</b>!
> 
> 
> deffinitely makes us better
> 
> 
> another marshall trade:
> 
> to Detroit: Donyell Marshall, pick no.8
> to Toronto: Darko Milicic
> 
> (cash difference to Detroit is +$679,560 who are under the cap)
> 
> Donyell fits Dumars' player ability, contract, contribution philosophy. adding Marshall betters Brown's options (and adds important scoring). they will have the money to bring back Wallace and Okur. it enables keeping keeping both of them, especially Okur-- removing Darko's spector betters Detroits hand.
> 
> Dumars speaks confidently about Darko but people are restless. they didn't wait on Rodney White. he was an
> impatient talent and was gone. this year's 8th pick (Detroit doesn't have a first reound pick) can bring them an excellent backup pointguard who can score-- that'd be a huge advance for them. or a switchblade guy like Igoudala or even a bigman.
> 
> Darko can be a great nba bigman but he needs PT to get there. he won't get it in Detroit, with Brown, not with Wallace, Wallace, Okur, Williamson, Campbell there. he will get it in Toronto with [insert name] even if he has to get it by default.
> 
> Bosh and Millicic could become a great, even dominant frontcourt.


I'll do it in a second but maybe the pistons want another draft pick


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## spuriousjones

i've said it before, yell has a lot more value than he's getting credit for. he brings more than antwan jamison. he takes 6 more minutes getting his stats and he's older but he's in his prime and does it at 36% the price. i'd say his value has got to be as much as jamison. he and 8 is a big package.


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## speedythief

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> You love Eric Williams, huh Speedy?
> 
> Nice if were out there.


O-C is one of my favourite players of all time. He is a blood and guts type of player. I would spaz if Toronto signed him this summer.


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