# what do cavs think of the miles deal trade?



## mixum (Mar 19, 2003)

i think the Blazers made out pretty well!


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I think the Cavs made another smart deal that will help their team. It's just like the Ricky Davis deal in that it gets rid of a piece they didn't need and brings in the type of players Silas wants in the positiosn they need.

This allows Silas to move Lebron to the 2 or 3 and that should make him fresher for the 4th quarters of games.

And getting another center almost certainly means Z is on the way out. I'm sure that's the guy who is going to bring back another star player to play with Lebron. Either a three or a 4. Like SAR perhaps?


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

is this official, link to confirm?


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

McInnis is a very good point when he was on the clips he was probably top 15. He can play if given the time. Great trade for the Cavs.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Marcus13</b>!
> is this official, link to confirm?


I don't have the link, but go to the Blazers page on NBA.com and there's something there about it.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

> is this official, link to confirm?


It's on the front of NBA.com, and I think there is/was a press conference about it already.


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## tpb2 (Oct 23, 2003)

I guess the my great Z for JWill and Lorenzen is not going down. Too bad.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

that trade is horrible


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Caron_Butler</b>!
> that trade is horrible


why?


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

Miles never fitted in with clevelands plans now that LBJ has officially arived. 

Mcinnis in my oppinion will be brought off the bench as a "scoring punch" to allow LBJ to rest and "sometimes" move to the 2 spot. I dont think LBJ should spend too much time at the 2 spot because his natural incstincts and not to mention his best skills are at the point position.

Scoring off the bench is what it comes down to, kevin ollie just doesnt cut it. Good move for the cavs. Portland already have Travis Outlaw, and woods, why do they want miles?? save $$?? maybe.

IF they trade Ilgauskas or Wagner i'll be very very :upset:


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## AstheFranchiz2K2 (May 24, 2003)

Can anyone inform me one just how good of a SHOOTER wagenr is. I noe hes a very capable scorer but hes percentages are horrible, even in college. is he a guy who can become a dead eye shooter?


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Caron_Butler</b>!
> that trade is horrible


Well another insightful post from a lebron hater with no reason to hate.


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## BrandinKnightFan3 (Jan 21, 2004)

I hope they do trade Z because he is a finesse center and does not get after the ball enuf! Trade Z now!


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TyGuy</b>!
> Well another insightful post from a lebron hater with no reason to hate.


exactly... and from a fan who is paying Brian Grant HOW MUCH?!!! For HOW LONG?!? lol


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

GOOD CALL!

I never realized that being a fan of a bad team makes your opinion worthless, but now that you mention it, I see you're exactly right, Heat fans should just shut their traps, the fact that their team overpaid Brian Grant means that they're idiots for sure.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

I always liked McInnis's game.... and I was hoping we would've gotten him in the Andre trade, or as a FA before he went to Port. Things have changed since then, so I'm not sure he is the final answer, but he is a good player, and Miles wore out his welcome. Heck, he wore out his welcome last season. Thanks for the memories, (few that they are) but glad to see him go. I like the trade... we get something for nothing. No way Miles would've resigned with us for peanuts, and he isn't worth a lottery choice level salary. I don't wish him wrong, but I won't miss him at all.

Darius Miles
Ricky Davis
Lamond Murray
Wesley Person
"Tractor" Traylor
Chris Gatling
Chris Mihm
Jumaine Jones

notice the trend here? Soft players. Some with talent for sure, but none you couldn't do without. Good riddance. I like what Silas is doing. And I don't think any of the recent trades have happened without the approval of Silas.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>AstheFranchiz2K2</b>!
> Can anyone inform me one just how good of a SHOOTER wagenr is. I noe hes a very capable scorer but hes percentages are horrible, even in college. is he a guy who can become a dead eye shooter?


hmmmm not really dead eye. But the guy is veryyyyyy streaky. he might go 0-8 in the first half and then 15-17 in the second. 

Flat out scorer when he gets on a roll. A guy that small scoring 86 one game then 100 the week after.... JUST AMAZING.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> GOOD CALL!
> 
> I never realized that being a fan of a bad team makes your opinion worthless, but now that you mention it, I see you're exactly right, Heat fans should just shut their traps, the fact that their team overpaid Brian Grant means that they're idiots for sure.


No... it's more a fan should know that neither his team, nor our team is a finished product, or even a successful product. He's just a LeBronhater, and is trying to stir stuff. I hate Reggie, but that has no bearing on my opinion that Indiana is doing well... though I think they did wrong trading Brad Miller......


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## Ehehehcallmedaddy (Dec 4, 2003)

Both teams got something they were looking for, so I think this is one of those trades where both teams win. GO BLAZERS!!


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

I like it. The Cavs give up a player who doesn't consistently contribute to the team, who plays a position they are deep at with better players, for a player who will consistently contribute at a position they needed more depth at. The team is put together better now and will be more consistent.

It will be easier for Silas to play a consistent rotation now... people will have a better idea of what's going on and the team's identity will be sharper.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mongolmike</b>!
> 
> 
> notice the trend here? Soft players. Some with talent for sure, but none you couldn't do without. Good riddance. I like what Silas is doing. And I don't think any of the recent trades have happened without the approval of Silas.


I agree one hundred percent. It's crazy how fast Silas is putting his stamp on this team. It seems like he has Paxson's support one hundred percent and they are clearly moving towards a larger plan.

All of the trades have seemed very calculated towards what Silas wants the team identity to be.

The Cavs are going to be a really mean and nasty team when they get it all put together. I have a feeling Silas is building a team of hardnosed guys who enjoy beating this snot out of the other team. Rebounders and defenders and smart players with Lebron as the center pieces.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

How could anyone not like this deal for the Cavs? Any time you can take a guy with NO skill (except dunking which is irrelivent because he can't get himself to the hoop) and get a very good point guard and a big guy for him, that's a terrific deal. 

I recognize that Ruben Boumtje Boumtje isn't the most skilled player ever, but he's a big body who's serviceable as the just in case guy behind Zydrunas, Boozer, Battie, and Diop. Besides, he can't be worse than Sundov.

The key to this deal is Jeff McInnis who is a point guard in a point guard's body, which is a rare occurance these days. He's in a situation that must be simply awful to play in and he's still averaging 12 points, 5 assists, a steal, and is shooting 47% from the floor, good numbers. Not to mention that with just 1.6 TOs a game, the AST/TO ratio is very good at 3.125.

McInnis' biggest contribution will be taking the pressure off of LeBron James. LBJ is more than ready to be in the NBA, however he might not be quite ready to be the only option at point guard quite yet because its hard enough to run a NBA offense out of four years in college, let alone high school. This deal moves LeBron to shooting guard where he will be able to control the offense without having the responsibilities of the point guard position.


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## TyGuy (Apr 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> How could anyone not like this deal for the Cavs? Any time you can take a go with NO skill (except dunking which is irrelivent because he can't get himself to the hoop) and get a very good point guard and a big guy for him, that's a terrific deal.
> 
> I recognize that Ruben Boumtje Boumtje isn't the most skilled player ever, but he's a big body who's serviceable as the just in case guy behind Zydrunas, Boozer, Battie, and Diop. Besides, he can't be worse than Sundov.
> ...


Excellent post :yes:


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> 
> The key to this deal is Jeff McInnis who is a point guard in a point guard's body, which is a rare occurance these days. He's in a situation that must be simply awful to play in and he's still averaging 12 points, 5 assists, a steal, and is shooting 47% from the floor, good numbers. Not to mention that with just 1.6 TOs a game, the AST/TO ratio is very good at 3.125.


Hmm yes he can take care of the ball, but once again, a passer to only that which leads to an assist. i think hes more of a scoring point imo. but thats ok, because thats what we need off the bench. Very much like Smush did last year. 



> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> McInnis' biggest contribution will be taking the pressure off of LeBron James. LBJ is more than ready to be in the NBA, however he might not be quite ready to be the only option at point guard quite yet because its hard enough to run a NBA offense out of four years in college, let alone high school. This deal moves LeBron to shooting guard where he will be able to control the offense without having the responsibilities of the point guard position.


Heres what i dont get. Why is sillas trying to push lebron out to the perimeter, which is evidently what he'll be doing once he becomes soley a scorer.

How can he control the offense at the 2 spot? He will BE the offense, and everything will be run through him, but he will only then dictate how much he scores, and how many assists he can hand out.

Controling an offense is much more than playin in the Tracy Macgrady mold. Lebrons strengths are organising a half court set, rebounding pushing the ball on the break. If the cavs rely too much on him for offense, teams will slack off on our other players. 

I like lebron at the 1 spot especially if wagner gets healthy quick.


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## ill subliminal (Apr 3, 2003)

Umm, McInnis is absolutely not a point guard in a point guard's body. Part of the reason he doens't shoot too much is because he has a suspect 3 point shot, although he's money from long 2 and his runner can be nasty. He can bring the ball up and get people into the offense. A scoring point isn't that big a deal because James is such an excellent passer, but this trade may start to push Wagner, who wasn't played well, out of the rotation. Him or Kevin Ollie, and while Ollie's talent level is rock-bottom, Silas is a coach who loves veterans and would get pissed about bad shots.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ill subliminal</b>!
> Umm, McInnis is absolutely not a point guard in a point guard's body. Part of the reason he doens't shoot too much is because he has a suspect 3 point shot, although he's money from long 2 and his runner can be nasty. He can bring the ball up and get people into the offense. A scoring point isn't that big a deal because James is such an excellent passer, but this trade may start to push Wagner, who wasn't played well, out of the rotation. Him or Kevin Ollie, and while Ollie's talent level is rock-bottom, Silas is a coach who loves veterans and would get pissed about bad shots.


So McInnis doesn't shoot much, he brings the ball up, and he gets people in the offense. That makes him a point guard. Since he's 6-4 you can argue he's tall enough to be a SG. However, as you just described him, he is a point guard in a point guard's body.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

You are one of my favorites on this site agoo, but I couldn't disagree with you more here. This was a positively horrible trade for Cleveland, the latest in a long line of retarded decisions that franchise has made.

First of all I disagree that Jeff McInnis is a very good point guard, I think he is well below average. He is good for 15-20 minutes a game, but if you give him more he will struggle mightily. The last two vet PG's they tried to do this with were Bimbo Coles and Kevin Ollie. Nuff said.

More importantly though, while I agree that the trade slightly improves the Cavaliers right now, Cleveland is a young lottery team that is not even close to being a contender. Yet they are trying to surround LeBron with veteran players like Jeff McInnis and Eric Williams that will be washed up by the time LeBron is close to his prime. Instead, they should surround him with players who will be able to contribute to a Cavaliers championship run in 5 years. It makes no sense for a team like Cleveland to be thinking present instead of future. Cleveland is a horrible team and small moves like this will not make them good, just less horrible, while hurting them in the future.

If you look at the litany of moves this front office has made -- trading Andre Miller for Miles, drafting Trajan Langdon, not drafting a SF because they felt they were set at that position because CEDRIC HENDERSON FOR THE LOVE OF GOD was there, trading Jamal Crawford for Chris Mihm, trying to make Kevin Ollie and Bimbo Coles starting PG's, choosing Coles over Earl Boykins, trading Wesley Person for nothing -- well, I think they are by far the worst front office in the NBA and need to be fired immediately. Their only good move in recent memory was drafting Boozer. So I think each and every move they make should be viewed with skepticisim.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

Oh, I forgot to mention their worst move of all, Shawn Kemp.

:rofl:

LeBron deserves better than the clowns that run that franchise.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

nah they are not so bad, they drafted mihm because big z's feet resembled bread crumbs at the time.

They took on coles and kevin ollie, because no body at that time really knew how good boydkins was. i mean boykins wanted a long term contract and we really had a hole at the pg spot. it was too much of a risk.

On the pro side, they drafted Wagner, who in my oppinion is the future of this team. Lebrons a great all around player, wagner will eventually be the scoring punch they need. 

The cavs have the right players in, big z, lebron and wagner for a nice core. Mcinnis will still be able to score off the bench in 2-3 years time. boozer will bein his prime. Diop and Z will split minutes in the middle. Who knows how kendrick brown will turn out.

The vets that are signed arent really long term perspective players, just there for cap relief, like eric williams. Battie is just insurance incase Z gets injured. He can step in and start. 

seems like good gm'ing to me.


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## ElevatorMan (Jan 8, 2004)

nobody should be upset about this moveif you are a cavs fan.. Miles is overrated and he sucks... his D is second tier... he can;t shoot and he makes bad court decisions... in return you got a good pg that can take some preasure off lebron... Silas is smart he is turning your team into a playoff contender next year... I no longer look at the cavs team and think of the clippers and blazers....teams that area joke in the league... you need vets and you got a good one... you guys ripped the blazers off in this deal


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mongolmike</b>!
> 
> 
> No... it's more a fan should know that neither his team, nor our team is a finished product, or even a successful product. He's just a LeBronhater, and is trying to stir stuff. I hate Reggie, but that has no bearing on my opinion that Indiana is doing well... though I think they did wrong trading Brad Miller......


The Cavs have made 2 deals...and what was the reason for both:

The players didn't play well with LeBron.

They are shopping Big Z b/c he doesn't play well behind LeBron. 

So who are we gonna keep? Or are we trading the whole team besides LeBron to get rid of our losing ways of the past 10 years?

----

Talk all you want about the Heat. 

-We have a better record.
-We're closer to making the playoffs in the near future than Cleveland.
-Brian Grant has been a double-double guy who never gets hurt(missing 1st game in 2 yrs), damn I hate having those guys.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Caron_Butler</b>!
> 
> 
> So who are we gonna keep? Or are we trading the whole team besides LeBron to get rid of our losing ways of the past 10 years?
> ...


Who are "WE" gonna keep? (Since when have you been a Cavs fan??) And yes, apparently Silas IS trading the rest of the team from the past ten losing years.... and not too many Cavs fans have a problem with that. Apparently other team's fans DO have a problem with that... but we're finding teams that are foolish enough to take on our cast-offs. Works for me.

Yes, you have a better record last year. We will have a better increase in wins THIS year. We had more room to grow obviously. We picked up one stud, you picked up two in the offseason. We are rapidly closing the gap, and Silas is guiding the ship. If a player doesn't like it, see ya later. It's the way a coach is supposed to run a team... right?

You may be closer right now to the playoffs, as you are 2 wins ahead of us in the win column... but I don't think either team will make the playoffs this year. I do think Clev will be a better team than Miami within 2 years. I like your talent, but I think Clev is gonna be a tough team to beat when all the pieces are in place.

Brian Grant.... he of the huge contract is all yours. I don't think/hear many other teams are asking about him. I haven't checked his stats, you say he is a double-double guy.... if so, not by much. He is about as invisible of a double-double guy as you could mention.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

Incidentally, as for you proclaiming Brian Grant as a double-double guy.... I had to laugh, only because I just checked his stats. Only in your mind could he really be considered a double-double guy.

He's been in the league, what, 8 years? 9 years? (Actually, this is his 10th season, and this season he is averaging 8.0 rbs and 9.3 pts per game)

Only ONCE for a season did he average a double-double... and then, just barely.

2002-2003 he averaged 10.2 boards and 10.3 pts for the season. That is his ONLY season.

His career averages are 8.1 rbs, 11.6 pts. He ain't a double-double guy, and he ain't worth the huge contract the Heat signed him to. 

One other thing... in the 532 games Grant has started, he has only had 56 double-doubles (less than 11% of the games he started). Carlos Boozer, now in his second year, has 36 double-doubles in the 116 games he has started.... and he gets barely more than the minimum salary as a 2nd round pick!


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

Also, on the main NBA page, I'm gonna post a new thread about players with double-doubles. After looking at Grant's numbers, I checked out a bunch of other players to compare. 

Of the leading REBOUNDERS, guess which player has the highest percentage of double-doubles in games they started....?

Hint: Boozer is #2, but that is more a factor that he is only in his 2nd year and hasn't started that many games, but 40% of the games he has started, he's gotta a double-double. 11% of the games Brian Grant started he got a DD. As a comparison, Tim Duncan gets a DD in only 32% of the games he started, which I find surprisingly low. Shaq gets a DD in only 14% of the games he starts.

Give up on who is #1? He is also a younger player, in his third year, but only this year has he been a regular starter....

answer is down a little bit






















Zach Randolph gets a DD in 55% of the games he has started. Like Boozer, he hasn't started that many games... but still, he has almost as many DDs as players like Zyrdunas or Lamar Odom.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

The Cavs have great depth for an Eastern Conference team, they are in very good shape, and to be honest...I wouldn't be that surprised if they made a little run for the Playoffs this season, and finished with over 30 wins. However, I think they are still 2 or 3 years away from becoming a contender in the Eastern Conference.

I think the Cavs will eventually go with this lineup...

C: Zydrunas Ilgauskas...DeSagana Diop
PF: Carlos Boozer...Tony Battie
SF: Eric Williams...Kedrick Brown...Jason Kapono
SG: LeBron James...Dajuan Wagner
PG: Jeff McInnis...Kevin Ollie...J.R. Bremer


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## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ElevatorMan</b>!
> nobody should be upset about this moveif you are a cavs fan.. Miles is overrated and he sucks... his D is second tier... he can;t shoot and he makes bad court decisions... in return you got a good pg that can take some preasure off lebron... Silas is smart he is turning your team into a playoff contender next year... I no longer look at the cavs team and think of the clippers and blazers....teams that area joke in the league... you need vets and you got a good one... you guys ripped the blazers off in this deal


well, I wouldn't say the blazers were ripped in this deal, boumtje-boumtje didn't play at all in portland, and mcinnis wasn't going to play either, since cheeks is in love with stoudamire for some reason :dead:, and they are trying to develop qyntel woods by giving him the back-up minutes at the point. mcinnis and boumtje-boumtje weren't going to be in portland's long term plans anyway. of course, if qyntel at point doesn't work, the blazers are in trouble...

but darius miles is only 22, and an expiring contract, if the blazers like him, they can sign him, if not, then they get $3,6M off their cap next summer(mcinnis gets $3,6M in 2004/5) ...

by the way, what makes the blazers "the joke in the league"? I hope it has nothing to do with basketball...


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

as for the double-double stats... forget em... they are wrong. The ESPN stat source I used is incomplete. I'll see if I can get a more complete source.


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## daboy (Jan 24, 2003)

"First of all I disagree that Jeff McInnis is a very good point guard, I think he is well below average. He is good for 15-20 minutes a game, but if you give him more he will struggle mightily. The last two vet PG's they tried to do this with were Bimbo Coles and Kevin Ollie. Nuff said."

Artest,

I disagree with that. I won't go as far as saying McInnis is a very good PG, but he is a good PG. As for the 15-20 minute thing, you're way off. From 11/19 to 1/13 (a 13 game span), McInnis averaged 15.7 points and nearly 6 assists, shooting 55% from the floor. He averaged about 35 minutes per game in that span. His numbers have dropped off lately because the 13th is around the time Derek Anderson came back and McInnis' minutes dropped significatly. If he plays 30 minutes a night, he will contribute. McInnis is just as good as your PG, Jamaal Tinsley.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

Grant averaged a double double last season-that was my main comment. This year he is averaging double digit rebounds and like 9 ppg. Wow thats far off!

When we signed Grant, remember, we had Zo at center. Riles didn't sign him to play center. This is what Riley was bringing to the table
C-Zo
PF-Grant
SF-Bowen
SG-Jones
PG-Hardaway/Strickland

I'm not sure who the PG was at the point-if Hardaway retired at that point or if it was his final year. But Zo got sick and we ended up with Grant at center. That team above is a DAMN good team who would definitely be a top team in the east and maybe a title contending team (Lakers were running the L then, so who knows). 

The Heat were better last year, they're better this year, and they'll be in the playoffs sooner. Call me a homer cuz thats about the only thing you can say to me. The Heat are better.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

Woulda-shoulda-coulda.... if Clev wouldn't of traded Ron Harper, if Brad Daugherty wouldn't of hurt his back.... yada, yada, yada. Brian Grant is not a double-double guy, and he is over-paid and he under-produces. 

Actually, I don't mind people who are homers, but mix in a little reality once in a while. I'm not talking about which team is better, because we are both speculating, I'm talking about your team bashing and this whole Brian Grant thing. Clev is VASTLY improved with Silas on board, the team attitude, what we have traded away and what we got in return..... Miami has some good pieces, but I still think Grant is a waste, and that Clev will be better sooner than Miami.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mongolmike</b>!
> Woulda-shoulda-coulda.... if Clev wouldn't of traded Ron Harper, if Brad Daugherty wouldn't of hurt his back.... yada, yada, yada. Brian Grant is not a double-double guy, and he is over-paid and he under-produces.
> 
> Actually, I don't mind people who are homers, but mix in a little reality once in a while. I'm not talking about which team is better, because we are both speculating, I'm talking about your team bashing and this whole Brian Grant thing. Clev is VASTLY improved with Silas on board, the team attitude, what we have traded away and what we got in return..... Miami has some good pieces, but I still think Grant is a waste, and that Clev will be better sooner than Miami.


Its wrong to call Brian Grant a waste. He's big and a good rebounder and honestly, there are 29 teams in the league that would love to have him, just not for that money. He is horribly overpaid. He's making max money and only putting up 9.3 ppg and 8.0 rpg. Granted that's better than anyone my Celtics have, but its far from being worth the twelve million he's being paid.

Its hard to say who has a better future because there are so many ifs involved. For Cleveland, if Wagner gets healthy, if Boozer resigns, if Diop starts shwoing signs of life, if McInnis is a good fit, they're looking very good. For Miami, if Odom stays off the pot, if Butler's rookie year wasn't a fluke, if Wade can play point, if they find good big men so Odom isn't playing PF, they're also looking very good. Its hard to judge who will be better. Miami has three good young ones, but Cleveland has LeBron James who is a jumper from being Christ and Moses on the court as well as Boozer could be better than Elton Brand if he puts a post game together, as well as Zydrunas Ilgauskas who is a terrific center. Personally, I'd take my chances with what Cleveland has set up for the future.


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## Mongolmike (Jun 11, 2002)

Based on stats alone, no, Grant is not a waste... but his numbers are pathetic. There are quite a few no name players that are close to his numbers. For the money, he is in the top 10 overpaid/underproducing players list.

As for Boozer, if he resigns?? He'll get a great contract offer, and he'll stay. Clev won't let him go. He proved his loyalty at Duke. Boozer feels loyalty to Clev for giving him the chance. He and Silas are in love. Boozer is one of the foundation players for is organization in every sense of the word. He is resigned, no problem.

As for Wagner and McInnis... they are pieces. I seriously do not see Wagner as a cornerstone for us. He is a role player. He is not gonna be the answer. McInnis is a role player.... a starter, but again, not a cornerstone. At some point, we will get a true PG, or LbJ goes back to point. 

Diop.... now he needs to produce. He has a starting position all sewed up if he produces. So far, he is still riding the potential tag. He could be part of the foundation, no doubt. First, he's gotta stay healthy, and get needed minutes and experience. Second, he's gotta stay aggressive, yet stay out of foul trouble. Third, he's gotta continue to develop his offense (which he is doing).


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## Nevus (Jun 3, 2003)

> Cleveland has LeBron James who is a jumper from being Christ and Moses on the court


:laugh: Good line!


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