# Elite 8: #1 Kentucky vs. #2 West Virginia (03.27.10)



## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

East Region:















7:00 ET: #1 Kentucky (35-2) vs. #2 West Virginia (30-6)

*Syracuse, New York in Carrier Dome*

NCAA Bracket / NCAA.com Watch Live


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

Thanks for these thread Cookie. I got Kentucky winning, they have just been on a roll, really gelling when it matters most. Of course WVU just won the Big East tourney before this too so should be a great game.


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

West Virginia, for the win! Ahoooooo!!!!!!!!!


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

The battle of the 'shady' coaches. 
*
On a more serious note, touching story*



> SYRACUSE, N.Y. -- When West Virginia and Kentucky battle for a trip to the Final Four Saturday in the Carrier Dome, one of the more intriguing storylines will involve coaches Bob Huggins and John Calipari.
> 
> Or more specifically the time when Huggins suffered a heart attack in 2002, and while en route to the hospital, discovered one of the ambulance attendants was a nephew of Calipari's.
> 
> ...


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Unless Cal and Huggy want to go out to center court and hit each other with banjos I just don't have a rooting interest in this game.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I am rooting for Huggy, but I won't be mad if Kentucky wins. I like watching Wall and Cousins play.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

I think Calipari and Huggins are both good coaches and most likely good people. No reason for fans of other powerhouse programs to get all self righteous when under the table stuff is part of the game for anybody who wants to win in college hoops.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I'll give you a thousand dollars for every win Coach K has vacated


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

So when Kentucky loses this game and Calipari has 4 guys bolting to the NBA. Does he bolt as well? NBA maybe?


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> I think Calipari and Huggins are both good coaches and most likely good people. No reason for fans of other powerhouse programs to get all self righteous when under the table stuff is part of the game for anybody who wants to win in college hoops.


I can think of tons of coaches who have won without being snake oil salesman.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

That's because you root for those teams.

If Calipari had made Final Fours at an ACC school and an SEC school instead of an A-10 school and a C-USA school (the nerve of him!), he would never have vacated a win either.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Are these officials blind?


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

The officiating is terrible but the game looks good, a slow start for both teams especially WVU, but the Mountaineers are a 2nd half team so I expect a close finish


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

WVU back in it.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Oh you thought Huggins was done. No buddy.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

This is probably the national title game.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Let's go Mountaineers.


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

Cornell... is that you?


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Geez what does Cousins have to do to draw a foul? Shouldn't the 3 WV guys on his back be called for a travel also?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

That was a travel and the refs missed another one.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Wow, the NCAA doesn't hate Calipari do they?


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

Ebanks didn't improve as much as I want him to this season. I hope he stays another year.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I am stunned by this game. WVU has zero two point field goals.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

How is that a foul on Cousins? That was Dodson's foul.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

This tournament has been all about the NCAA reminding everybody who is in charge.


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

Kentucky hasnt played a team close to as good as WVU this season. I expect Kentucky to shoot the ball better in the 2nd but WVU has to make a 2 at some point.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Meh battle of the goons, 54 points combined at the half isnt exciting ball.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Jonathan Watters said:


> I think Calipari and Huggins are both good coaches and most likely good people. No reason for fans of other powerhouse programs to get all self righteous when under the table stuff is part of the game for anybody who wants to win in college hoops.


Horse ****. There are plenty of wildly successfull clean programs. NCAA either needs to get tougher with these rules or get of them all together.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Keep telling yourself that.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

God damn, that was a stupid foul.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Holy crap, WVU is on fire from the perimeter.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I for one dont think Roy is involved in all the scandalous deals. His wins dont get 'vacated'


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

HKF said:


> God damn, that was a stupid foul.


On Cousins? He hit Butler in the dick, that was definitely a foul.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Jonathan Watters said:


> Keep telling yourself that.


Keep rationalizing.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

This is the toughest team in America, bar none.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

bball2223 said:


> On Cousins? He hit Butler in the dick, that was definitely a foul.


Sure was a foul, but incredibly stupid. Just get back on defense. I can see Cousins frustration, but Wall and company have to do a better job getting him the ball.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> That's because you root for those teams.
> 
> If Calipari had made Final Fours at an ACC school and an SEC school instead of an A-10 school and a C-USA school (the nerve of him!), he would never have vacated a win either.


It has nothing to do with what conference he coached. I've hated Calhoun for his antics for years.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

The good ole folks in Lexington and most parts of Kentucky are not 2 happy right now. Huggins & co are about shatter the dreams of millions


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> This tournament has been all about the NCAA reminding everybody who is in charge.


Are you wearing your tin foil hat as you type that?


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> Keep telling yourself that.


Witty retort.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Just amazing how a team with no guys above 6'10 can rebound so well.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Mazzulla.


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

What is Kentucky doing??? thats pathetic defense...


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

The Goons ARE IN THE BUILDING AND THEY CAME TO PLAY #takethat #takethat #takethat One of the few times I will root for WV and Bob Huggins


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

That was all leather. Huggins running a clinic out there.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Cousins is out there fighting, but nobody else on Kentucky looks like they have any interest in mixing it up.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Calipari's a joke. He'll never get a championship. Is he a great recruiter? You bet. His teams always have a low IQ though and try to get away with it by being a better athlete. Goodbye Wall, Patterson, Cousins and Bledsoe. I suspect Cal is going to jump ship to the NBA after this year.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Bad shot by Flowers.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Kentucky has no pure shooters... That's why they wont win it all.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Blue Magic said:


> Kentucky has no pure shooters... That's why they wont win it all.


Patricks Sparks, Tony Delk, Keith Bogans where are you?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

He's talking about right now


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Awful foul by Patterson.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HB said:


> He's talking about right now


I know. Past great Kentucky teams always had lights out shooters. This team doesn't.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Cousins with a Kwame Brown move.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Kentucky's whole offense is Cousins. Patterson is invisible.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

**** WVU. That's two baskets they screwed up. Come on guys.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Man thats so annoying, played with so much poise so far and two silly turnovers


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

The ball-handling in that last sequence :laugh:.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

That WV defense is giving Wall fits. Clearly the #1 pick? I dunno? He sure doesn't look like it.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

HKF said:


> Kentucky's whole offense is Cousins. Patterson is invisible.


They dont run plays for him, hows that his fault?


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

GFG WVU.... you had 2 chances to get an easy layup and you couldn't even do that.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

zagsfan20 said:


> That WV defense is giving Wall fits. Clearly the #1 pick? I dunno? He sure doesn't look like it.


Lol your a funny guy man...if anything this game proves why Wall is the number 1 pick. Guy's unstoppable in the open court. Turner hasn't been incredible in this tourney either.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I wonder if Cal has taught these guys anything about the zone. So quick to shoot the 3.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

HB said:


> I for one dont think Roy is involved in all the scandalous deals. His wins dont get 'vacated'


Nope. And Diable thinks Duke is the only clean program. Zags fan thinks Few is the only clean one. Indiana fans were all about cutting down on corruption until Kelvin Sampson showed up.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> That WV defense is giving Wall fits. Clearly the #1 pick? I dunno? He sure doesn't look like it.


I think he looks like a great NBA player playing in a college game. NBA basketball is a different sport.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HB said:


> Lol your a funny guy man...if anything this game proves why Wall is the number 1 pick. Guy's unstoppable in the open court. Turner hasn't been incredible in this tourney either.


Darren Collison and Rodrigue Beubois are unstoppable in the open court as well. I sure as hell wouldn't draft them with the first pick on that alone.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Miller got away with a walk.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

zagsfan20 said:


> Darren Collison and Rodrigue Beubois are unstoppable in the open court as well. I sure as hell wouldn't draft them with the first pick on that alone.


Sig-worthy right here


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

You can clearly see Wall's talent. Once you put him on the floor with guys who can stretch the floor with perimeter shooting, he's lights out on the pro level. It proves to me that maybe he should have gone to Baylor, because they have shooters.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

zagsfan20 said:


> That WV defense is giving Wall fits. Clearly the #1 pick? I dunno? He sure doesn't look like it.


Lol, Ive been saying this for months... Top 3 pick? sure. But I dont see how he is seemingly the 'consensus' #1...


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I'm sorry HB, your boy Patterson is being abused. He's worthless out there.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Kentucky's freshmen are starting to play like freshmen.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

These boys have lost...shows in their body language


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Wall is going to be a top 5 point guard next year, lol at even comparing him in the same sentence with Beaubois.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

HB said:


> Wall is going to be a top 5 point guard next year, lol at even comparing him in the same sentence with Beaubois.


Top 5 in the NBA with no jumpshot? You are crazy.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> Nope. And Diable thinks Duke is the only clean program. Zags fan thinks Few is the only clean one. Indiana fans were all about cutting down on corruption until Kelvin Sampson showed up.


Your the king of the strawman. 

I never said Few was the only one. Tom Izzo, Roy Williams, Coack K, Lute Olson, Jim Boeheim, Rick Barnes, Mike Montgomery, Tom Crean.... The list goes on and on, of coaches who have sustained success without being slimeballs.


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

Come on Kentucky


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Cousins is just a beast. He's gonna do well in the pros.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Blue Magic said:


> Lol, Ive been saying this for months... Top 3 pick? sure. But I dont see how he is seemingly the 'consensus' #1...


Because the NBA is a completely different game. He will have more space to operate, which is perfect for his game.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

That was a great save by Thoroughman, but he just threw it the wrong way.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Blue Magic said:


> Lol, Ive been saying this for months... Top 3 pick? sure. But I dont see how he is seemingly the 'consensus' #1...


Completely agree! I think Wall, Cousins or Turner could all convincingly be taken #1.


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

I agree. Wall is the no.1 pick next year.

WVU needs to hold the ball as long as possible.. hit a couple of shots and it will be their game


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

UK is down to it's last time out?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

One more defensive stand Huggs and you need to put Mazzulla back in the game.


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

Dear Brandon Knight.. if you are still considering Syracuse.. please come. PLEASE! You don't need Kentucky


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Wall will be the number one pick so long as the team which gets the number one pick doesn't need Evans more. He's going to be a very good pro, but there are several teams which will take Evans instead.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HB said:


> Wall is going to be a top 5 point guard next year, lol at even comparing him in the same sentence with Beaubois.


Why not? Have you seen Beaubois play when gets PT? Very similar style of game. I'd almost compare Wall to Rondo, but Wall doesn't have the overall game of Rondo.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Oh by the way since Drake is a bandwagon fan, I think it would be appropriate to play that Over song in the Arena tonight lol


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

zagsfan20 said:


> Why not? Have you seen Beaubois play when gets PT? Very similar style of game. I'd almost compare Wall to Rondo, but Wall doesn't have the overall game of Rondo.


Dude the worst case scenario for John Wall is Derrick Rose


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

bball2223 said:


> Because the NBA is a completely different game. He will have more space to operate, which is perfect for his game.


He's not a creative passer. Help defense in the NBA is too good for him to get the easy lay-ins that he gets in the halfcourt in college.


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

wow here comes the meltdown


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

What a bullcrap call.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

bball2223 said:


> Because the NBA is a completely different game. He will have more space to operate, which is perfect for his game.


But there's also bigger/better athletes waiting @ the rim to swat his ****. The kid is a as talented an athlete as it gets, but he has no in-between game right now. 

This is why I dont understand when people say, 'oh Knight will good, but he wont be the next John Wall'(as if John Wall is some highly refined player lol). If you've seen Knight, you know he is actually a skilled offensive player, not just an athlete. Wall has elite potential, but his halfcourt, in-between game is still weak...


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HB said:


> Dude the worst case scenario for John Wall is Derrick Rose


lol. Wall will never be as good as Rose.

thats sig worthy.


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

Kentucky is going down...AWWW YEAH!!!


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Umm are these WV boys crazy? What the heck was that?


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

HOLD the ball... my god..


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

:no:


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> He's not a creative passer. Help defense in the NBA is too good for him to get the easy lay-ins that he gets in the halfcourt in college.


Have you been watching this game? He's a fantastic passer even at full speed. How many easy shots has he gotten Cousins in this game?


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

Joe Wtf!!!!!!!!!!!! Wtf!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Where was the foul?


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

If Mazzula touched him I didn't see it


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

WTF was that call? Yeah, the NCAA is showing Calipari who's boss!

lol!


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

So WVU is also a punk team too....so called toughest team in America about to blow this lead away.


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

This pisses me off with all basketball players.. there is a reason why they call these things.. FREE throws.. HIT THEM!


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HB said:


> So WVU is also a punk team too....so called toughest team in America about to blow this lead away.


Time keeps on ticking, ticking, ticking into the future. Cal's gone to the NBA.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Dell Curry never taught this guy how to stroke it..big three....Good lord WVa doesn't look strong with the ball


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

Either way.. Joe M. shoudln't be anywhere near that and give the ref any excuse


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Just knock the free throws down and this could be in the books.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Telling stat. Kentucky 2/25 for 3. Coach Cal, what are you afraid to recruit a white guy? lol


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Play the Drake song....this game is OVER!!!!


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

John Wall calls Wells Fargo


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Lol, Wall with the bank 3... :laugh:


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I don't know why UK is fouling. It looks like WVa is drunk on a tightrope every time they try to handle the ball.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

If Truck Bryant was there, WVU wouldn't be so in trouble. It sucks they lost a point guard at this point of the year.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

How much scrilla do you think Calipari got for those Direct TV commercials?


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

LoL. Rod Strickland just sits there on the bench all the time comatose like he did in his playing daze with the Trailblazers. That guy is perma-stoned.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Wall's done.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Blue Magic said:


> But there's also bigger/better athletes waiting @ the rim to swat his ****. The kid is a as talented an athlete as it gets, but he has no in-between game right now.
> 
> This is why I dont understand when people say, 'oh Knight will good, but he wont be the next John Wall'(as if John Wall is some highly refined player lol). If you've seen Knight, you know he is actually a skilled offensive player, not just an athlete. Wall has elite potential, but his halfcourt, in-between game is still weak...


Wall is a much better passer than Knight, which combined with his ball-handling and athletic ability will allow him to have a smooth transition to the NBA. Knight is more of a scoring PG, FOH with this homer stuff.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

God Flowers is just so stupid.


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

Yes!!!

I'm lovin' the Madness!!


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

I really like Patrick Patterson. One of the class guys on that Kentucky team.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Just dont get why these coaches dont realize you have to recruit a good back up point


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

Whole Lotta Missed FTs affair game.


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

I agree... UK should just apply the pressure and hope to get that 10 seconds violation ... anything after that... just foul


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

It's amazing how frazzled these college kids get when teams pressure.


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

HKF said:


> It's amazing how frazzled these college kids get when teams pressure.


No big boy pants, aye


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HB said:


> Just dont get why these coaches dont realize you have to recruit a good back up point


Good back-up points want to be starters so they go somewhere where they can start. Most good backup points are seniors who started then lost their spot when a more highly touted player came in.


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

4 point game... Let's go Kentucky!! I need to see more John Wall!


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Amazing how Kentucky is still in this game. You say Huggins shouldn't have recruited a point guard. He had two and one got hurt.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Huggins simply outcoached Cal today. Another quotable from me....all coaches are not created equal


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Coach Cal gonna be coaching the Hornets in the big easy next year?


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

This is just beautiful March Madness. Top teams are knocked out...oi oi oi


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

They call him... HUGGY BEAR! Bob Huggins.


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

At least we got a Big East representative... Great game by WVU... but I hope next game you dont' think you can pull off that first half you did.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

So Duke can actually win it all this year huh


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

I'm the only person in the pool on here that has the National Champ pick still alive in the tourney. Everybody else picked Syracuse, Kansas and Kentucky to win it all.


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

zagsfan20 said:


> I'm the only person in the pool on here that has the National Champ pick still alive in the tourney. Everybody else picked Syracuse, Kansas and Kentucky to win it all.


I picked Duke but I am not playing the pool here on BBF.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

There was an Exodus in Egypt, there will be an Exodus in Lexington, just watch the dominoes as these guys bolt for the NBA


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I picked Kansas over West Virginia. I really wish I just stuck with Huggins this year. I love this WVU team.


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## thatsnotgross (Dec 4, 2006)

Well.. Joe Mazulla is a backup point guard. Its just that Truck Bryant went down. Next year WVU will have 3 point guards when Noah Cohtrill comes in.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Who would thunk that Roy's team of misfits would still be playing for something meaningful instead of Cal's 'glorious' wildcats haha


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

HB said:


> Who would thunk that Roy's team of misfits would still be playing for something meaningful instead of Cal's 'glorious' wildcats haha


despite knowing what you're saying, im not following

and you're delusional


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

bball2223 said:


> Wall is a much better passer than Knight, which combined with his ball-handling and athletic ability will allow him to have a smooth transition to the NBA. Knight is more of a scoring PG, FOH with this homer stuff.


Haha, we'll see next year I guess. Knight is going to UK, so I dont know how I'm a homer. I've always liked his game more than Wall's. Like I said tho, we'll see.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Why are you still talking about UNC? Who cares about them?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Moiiiii...in the grand scheme of things though, I am just happy Kentucky is down and out. Now to see how many of those guys bolt to the NBA


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HB said:


> Moiiiii...in the grand scheme of things though, I am just happy Kentucky is down and out. Now to see how many of those guys bolt to the NBA


Maybe Bledsoe stays?


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## SlamJam (Nov 27, 2004)

uk def had the most talent, but if you shoot like they did on threes and at the FT line, it's pretty tough to win. 

three #1 seeds are out, one more to go :clap:


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Wall, Cousins, PP, Orton and Bledsoe... all gone imo. Cal will reload, though.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Blue Magic said:


> Wall, Cousins, PP, Orton and Bledsoe... all gone imo. Cal will reload, though.


Cal will reload in the NBA. He's going to give up on the college thing. Travis Ford will be the next coach at Kentucky.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

zagsfan20 said:


> Cal will reload in the NBA. He's going to give up on the college thing. Travis Ford will be the next coach at Kentucky.


Are you high?


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Looks like Bledsoe has been saying he's going to enter. But I think staying another year where he could run the point would be the smart idea.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HB said:


> Are you high?


I got a little buzz going on, why? Thats not that far fetched. Cal is about personal glory and has $ signs for eye balls.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Noone in the NBA is hiring Calipari. He's a great recruiter and a mediocre coach. It's pretty much established that the sort of offense he runs isn't all that successful in the NBA, mainly because it's entirely predicated upon having athletic superiority to your opponent. If you don't have better athletes you lose every game playing that braindead bs. It doesn't make one whit of difference how good a recruiter you are in the NBA, and you don't get any advantage from being more willing to take chances with dubious characters.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

coolpohle said:


> Looks like Bledsoe has been saying he's going to enter. But I think staying another year where he could run the point would be the smart idea.


I'd be surprised if he's even been going to school 2nd semester... The kid hates supposedly class..


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Diable said:


> Noone in the NBA is hiring Calipari. He's a great recruiter and a mediocre coach. It's pretty much established that the sort of offense he runs isn't all that successful in the NBA, mainly because it's entirely predicated upon having athletic superiority to your opponent. If you don't have better athletes you lose every game playing that braindead bs. It doesn't make one whit of difference how good a recruiter you are in the NBA, and you don't get any advantage from being more willing to take chances with dubious characters.


I can see a few franchises that would be dumb enough to make a gamble on Calipari. Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice. . . well:whiteflag:


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

If you don't think Cal can coach then you might want to alter your criteria.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Blue Magic said:


> I'd be surprised if he's even been going to school 2nd semester... The kid hates supposedly class..


Yeah, I'm sure he will enter and I'm curious where he'll get picked. To me, he's a 2nd rounder this year.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Blue Magic said:


> I'd be surprised if he's even been going to school 2nd semester... The kid hates supposedly class..


There's actually a class entitled supposedly? Like supposedly Cal ever wins the big one.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

HB said:


> Are you high?


Only pro team that MIGHT even consider hiring Cal would be the Bobcats, considering the whole Larry Brown-Cal connection... But of course, that is all dependent on Brown taking more of a presidential role this offseason..


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

coolpohle said:


> Yeah, I'm sure he will enter and I'm curious where he'll get picked. To me, he's a 2nd rounder this year.


No way he's a second rounder. He has the case of Darren Collison and Jason Terry. A good point guard, overshadowed by an even better one.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Blue Magic said:


> Only pro team that MIGHT even consider hiring Cal would be the Bobcats, considering the whole Larry Brown-Cal connection... But of course, that is all dependent on Brown taking more of a presidential role this offseason..


The Russian in New Jersey might take a gamble. Never count Donald Sterling out of making a dumb decision. Oh, and New Orleans might look to make a hire of substance. Look for NO to probably go after Van Gundy now that I think of it. Maybe Chicago, so Rose and him can re-unite and everything will be perfume and flowers.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Michael Jordan isn't giving Larry Brown a presedential role with the Bobcats and Cal is going nowhere.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

zagsfan20 said:


> There's actually a class entitled supposedly? Like supposedly Cal ever wins the big one.


Yup, that's the one. 

Cant believe ppl were calling that fraud a top 10 coach in the preseason.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

The Russian is NOT taking a gamble on Cal...most of the people Cal worked with the first time he was there are still in the Nets FO...you do realize he was fired right? He's not going back to the Nets.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

coolpohle said:


> If you don't think Cal can coach then you might want to alter your criteria.


He thinks Omar Samhan is 6'8, and he thinks his program is the only one landing high-level recruits without offering a little something under the table. It doesn't surprise me at all that he thinks Cal can't coach...


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HB said:


> The Russian is NOT taking a gamble on Cal...most of the people Cal worked with the first time he was there are still in the Nets FO...you do realize he was fired right? He's not going back to the Nets.


Russians can be very stubborn. Its part of the liberation of being a new found American.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Cal has zero FF's to his name. How is he a top 10 coach again?? Even with easily the most talented team in the nation, he fails. The guys is a cheat, a hack, and a failure. Until proven otherwise.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> He thinks Omar Samhan is 6'8, and he thinks his program is the only one landing high-level recruits without offering a little something under the table. It doesn't surprise me at all that he thinks Cal can't coach...


Oh ya, its strawman guy to the rescue. Closer to 6'8 than 6'11" was the argument buddy. 

As far as Cal? How many good NBA players can a coach produce without ever winning the big one until he is labeled as a bad coach, good recruiter. What is there possibly 4 lottery picks on that Kentucky team that couldn't even make it to the final four?


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Blue Magic said:


> Cal has zero FF's to his name. How is he a top 10 coach again?? Even with easily the most talented team in the nation, he fails. The guys is a cheat, a hack, and a failure. Until proven otherwise.


He's got two. One with UMASS, one with Memph. As well as several NBA players. Poor guy.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

No, Calipari has zero final fours. Both years have been vacated by the NCAA.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Come to think of it, if the Nets do get the number 1 pick, there'll be a lot of talk of pairing Wall with Calipari.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

zagsfan20 said:


> *He's got two.* One with UMASS, one with Memph. As well as several NBA players. Poor guy.


You mean the two that were vacated? 

:naughty:


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> Oh ya, its strawman guy to the rescue. Closer to 6'8 than 6'11" was the argument buddy.
> 
> As far as Cal? How many good NBA players can a coach produce without ever winning the big one until he is labeled as a bad coach, good recruiter. What is there possibly 4 lottery picks on that Kentucky team that couldn't even make it to the final four?


Kentucky was overhyped for most of the season. As good as they were, it's hard to imagine a team that's three biggest contributors being all freshmen were going to win it all. It's not Cal's fault that people thought that automatically earned them a championship because they have three lottery picks this year. The SEC was pretty weak this year and they only beat one tournament team (Louisville - home) OOC. They were simply a victim of people thinking they were way better than they actually were because of a gaudy record against weak competition.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Oh ya, its strawman guy to the rescue. Closer to 6'8 than 6'11" was the argument buddy. [/QUQTE]
> 
> You yourself said he was 6'8.75 in shoes, which makes him closer to 6'11 than 6'8. Yet you are still here arguing it? Do I need to find the quote for you? Would it make one bit of difference?
> 
> ...


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

zagsfan20 said:


> No way he's a second rounder. He has the case of Darren Collison and Jason Terry. A good point guard, overshadowed by an even better one.


Collison didn't leave after his freshman season.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Butler, Jones and Ebanks are all future NBA players IMO. I didn't know Ebanks had a hand injury this season. That explains why his offensive numbers have dropped significantly.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HKF said:


> No, Calipari has zero final fours. Both years have been vacated by the NCAA.


Yeah, your right, my bad. That game against Kansas was a good case of karma.


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## SlamJam (Nov 27, 2004)

coolpohle said:


> Looks like Bledsoe has been saying he's going to enter. But I think staying another year where he could run the point would be the smart idea.


there are two sides to this. he also played with a ton of talent this year which covered up weaknesses which could be exposed next year.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

HKF said:


> Butler, Jones and *Ebanks* are all future NBA players IMO. I didn't know Ebanks had a hand injury this season. That explains why his offensive numbers have dropped significantly.


Guys with his athleticism and length are going to play in the NBA no matter what.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Yeah, your right, my bad. That game against Kansas was a good case of karma.


Yeah, because Bill Self is the prime example of how to run a clean program, right?


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> You yourself said he was 6'8.75 in shoes, which makes him closer to 6'11 than 6'8. Yet you are still here arguing it? Do I need to find the quote for you? Would it make one bit of difference?


Either way, quit saying that I said that he's 6'8". Thats never what I said.



> Mark Few's record is no better over the same time period, even accounting for his having less talent.
> 
> Anybody who thinks Kentucky's 2009-10 season was a disappointment is an idiot. They were an extremely good team, all the big name players developed, and they made a very nice run in March despite being extremely young. If they hadn't gotten stuck playing by far the best #2 seed, they would be in the final four. Not that the high and mighty's of this board are going to listen to reason when they can blast somebody for being dirty.


Lol at everything I say in here having to be attached in some way to Mark Few. I'm a fan of college basketball in general. My favorite team happens to be Gonzaga. Few doesn't have to be entrenched in every argument as though it is some sort of burn.

You can look at it as a successful year for Cal. But in my book, no FF with that much talent, young or not, is a disappointment. The pundits have been riding UK's jock all season and practically annointing them the title. They were exposed as a a typical Calipari team, which has a great single parts that don't ever amount to a whole total package. It kind of is what is.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> Yeah, because Bill Self is the prime example of how to run a clean program, right?


Comparing Calipari and Self is like comparing Charles Manson to Amy Fisher.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> Guys with his athleticism and length are going to play in the NBA no matter what.


Says James White and Gerald Green.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> You can look at it as a successful year for Cal. But in my book, no FF with that much talent, young or not, is a disappointment. The pundits have been riding UK's jock all season and practically annointing them the title. They were exposed as a a typical Calipari team, which has a great single parts that don't ever amount to a whole total package. It kind of is what is.


Show me a single pundit that anointed Kentucky the champ. That's just a figment of your increasingly ridiculous imagination.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Says James White and Gerald Green.


They didn't play in the NBA? And neither one of them is as tall as Devin Ebanks.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Comparing Calipari and Self is like comparing Charles Manson to Amy Fisher.


Spoken out of true ignorance. If you knew anything about the players that were on that championship team and their respective situations, you'd keep your mouth shut on this one. Of course, you probably do know and are pretending not to just to be a douche.

I get it, you need to feel superior to someone and you do this by ripping a basketball program you don't root for. I don't need to mention how pathetic that sounds, because it speaks for itself.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> Show me a single pundit that anointed Kentucky the champ. That's just a figment of your increasingly ridiculous imagination.


Hubert Davis and Digger Phelps.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Jonathan Watters said:


> Anybody who thinks Kentucky's 2009-10 season was a disappointment is an idiot. They were an extremely good team, all the big name players developed, and they made a very nice run in March despite being extremely young. If they hadn't gotten stuck playing by far the best #2 seed, they would be in the final four. Not that the high and mighty's of this board are going to listen to reason when they can blast somebody for being dirty.


I don't think the goal is to develop players who are leaving.

For a team with championship talent and expectations, I don't know how failing to make the Final 4 is anything but a failure.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

My parents are both from the Commonwealth of Kentucky. I know more UK fans than I could count. You have no ****ing clue what counts as a failure in Kentucky basketball. Every year is a failure when you don't win in April. All that other stuff don't fly up there.



> Originally Posted by *Jonathan Watters*
> _Anybody who thinks Kentucky's 2009-10 season was a disappointment is an idiot. They were an extremely good team, all the big name players developed, and they made a very nice run in March despite being extremely young. If they hadn't gotten stuck playing by far the best #2 seed, they would be in the final four. Not that the high and mighty's of this board are going to listen to reason when they can blast somebody for being dirty._


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> Spoken out of true ignorance. If you knew anything about the players that were on that championship team and their respective situations, you'd keep your mouth shut on this one. Of course, you probably do know and are pretending not to just to be a douche.
> 
> I get it, you need to feel superior to someone and you do this by ripping a basketball program you don't root for. I don't need to mention how pathetic that sounds, because it speaks for itself.


True ignorance huh? Are we really trying to compare Calipari to Self. Can I tell myself again, am I really doing this? A coach who gave money and prostitutes to Marcus Camby. A guy in Calipari who's right hand man is William Wesley. C'mon man. Your acting like the kid who blamed the dog for eating his homework. I thought you were better than this. The guy is a walking NCAA violation.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> They didn't play in the NBA? And neither one of them is as tall as Devin Ebanks.


Oh well if were talking about a cup of coffee in the NBA than sure. A meaningful NBa player? no.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Hubert Davis and Digger Phelps.


No way.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> True ignorance huh? Are we really trying to compare Calipari to Self. Can I tell myself again, am I really doing this? A coach who gave money and prostitutes to Marcus Camby. A guy in Calipari who's right hand man is William Wesley. C'mon man. Your acting like the kid who blamed the dog for eating his homework. I thought you were better than this. The guy is a walking NCAA violation.


And when Self hired Chalmers' dad? When Julian Wright mysteriously committed to Self after not even having Kansas on his list? When Darrell Arther walked up to the podium to commit to Baylor, but changed his mind literally at the last second because he had a dream the night before? Do you know anything about the person controlling Sherron Collins' recruitment? Any idea why Darnell Jackson had to serve a suspension early in his career? 

Jesus, delusional much?

Pretty much every single major player on that team had behind the scenes stuff going on. Yet them beating Memphis was all about Karma.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Oh well if were talking about a cup of coffee in the NBA than sure. A meaningful NBa player? no.


The two you mention are an absolute worst case scenario for a player of that type, and both have played in the NBA. Green even got meaningful minutes. Your exceptions prove my rule and you know it.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> And when Self hired Chalmers' dad? When Julian Wright mysteriously committed to Self after not even having Kansas on his list? When Darrell Arther walked up to the podium to commit to Baylor, but changed his mind literally at the last second because he had a dream the night before? Do you know anything about the person controlling Sherron Collins' recruitment? Any idea why Darnell Jackson had to serve a suspension early in his career?
> 
> Jesus, delusional much?


lol. So now were talking about factual things that Calipari has done vs. tin foil conspiracies you have about Bill Self? Fact is Self has never been reprimanded by the NCAA for recruiting violations.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> lol. So now were talking about factual things that Calipari has done vs. tin foil conspiracies you have about Bill Self? Fact is Self has never been reprimanded by the NCAA for recruiting violations.


The NCAA that is more corrupt than both Self and Calipari put together? Nice try...


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> lol. So now were talking about factual things that Calipari has done vs. tin foil conspiracies you have about Bill Self? Fact is Self has never been reprimanded by the NCAA for recruiting violations.


Because there is no rule against hiring recruits parents to be "director of basketball operations" and throwing 120-200k a year at them. It's slimy and unethical, but the NCAA allows it. Cal and Huggins both do this too.

On a related note, (almost) everybody would agree that dirty coaches are bad, which is why I find the national vitriol towards Duke amusing considering Coach K has run a wildly succesfull program above reproach for over 30 years while maintaining an outstanding graduation rate.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

^K did it too, supposedly with Chris Duhon and Carlos Boozer, if I recall... Alot of coaches are sleazy tho, they just have better PR teams than coach Cal. Billy Donovan has lost numerous recruits due to not giving parents/handlers handouts.. Most recent guy I know of was JJ Hickson, and i'm sure Knight's family is probably getting taken care of handsomely, as well.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

If you just paid the athletes it wouldn't matter. I don't have a problem with them getting money even if it is illegal. The guys who are getting money never had it before. If boosters want to throw away money to have a winning team, who am I to care? I just want to see good basketball.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

The first signs of something fishy, is when a parent all of a sudden ups and leaves and moves to the same city the child is schooling in. You definitely know there's a support system in place.

Cal unfortunately keeps going after these 'one and done' type kids, basically soldiers for hire. Its a blight on college ball, because these kids are not 'student' athletes. Why should Wall or any of his mates on that team bother going to classes when they know they are bolting for the NBA? Which is why I am not sure how Cal can win the big one when all your best players keep going out that revolving door. How do you build longevity?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Diable said:


> My parents are both from the Commonwealth of Kentucky. I know more UK fans than I could count. You have no ****ing clue what counts as a failure in Kentucky basketball. Every year is a failure when you don't win in April. All that other stuff don't fly up there.


I did tell him that before...they dont care about final fours. Winning a championship is all that matters.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Blue Magic said:


> ^K did it too, supposedly with Chris Duhon and Carlos Boozer, if I recall... Alot of coaches are sleazy tho, they just have better PR teams than coach Cal. Billy Donovan has lost numerous recruits due to not giving parents/handlers handouts.. Most recent guy I know of was JJ Hickson, and i'm sure Knight's family is probably getting taken care of handsomely, as well.


Of course he did.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

HKF said:


> If you just paid the athletes it wouldn't matter. I don't have a problem with them getting money even if it is illegal. The guys who are getting money never had it before. If boosters want to throw away money to have a winning team, who am I to care? I just want to see good basketball.


Couldn't have said it better myself. These high and mighty fans are really just ticked off that their programs can't get the one and done talent for themselves.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

HB said:


> I did tell him that before...they dont care about final fours. Winning a championship is all that matters.


And I told you that a bunch of delusional homers shouldn't set the standard for whether a team had a good year or not. Against all realistic expectations, Kentucky had a fine year. They didn't surprise, but they certainly didn't disappoint.


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## MLKG (Aug 25, 2003)

Jonathan Watters said:


> Couldn't have said it better myself. These high and mighty fans are really just ticked off that their programs can't get the one and done talent for themselves.


Yeah, lets create a major league baseball like system where the biggest and richest schools can buy the best players and keep them there the longest. That sounds like it would be awesome for college basketball. Then not only can we have the NBA-prospecting AAU coach types, but legitimized college agents throwing money and perks at 14 and 15 year olds. Sounds like a great way to develop young people.

Some people enjoy college basketball for more than the NBA factory aspect. And calling people "high and mighty" for wanting to see teams not cheat is absurd.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

What is really different about the scenario you lay out and the one we have now? If there is money to be made, money is going to flow. AAU coaches already control the vast majority of the process, because NCAA rules restrict coaching contact and practice time. 

Given that the high and mighties on this thread are without exception fans of programs that stand to benefit the most from the removal of a Calipari, the only thing ridiculous here is you refusing to admit where the real disdain for Calipari comes from.


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

UK had a great season... I would have liked a championship but I'm not disappointed too much. Cal is not going to the NBA. Anyone who thinks so doesn't know much about basketball. Orton will be back. Bledsoe may be back but I wouldn't be surprised to see him go. The refs sucked as there were bad calls on both teams. I got annoyed with Dick Einberg the most with his Alzheimer's induced banter and Bilas who talks like he's got blisters on his tongue. We will be back next year... UK basketball is back to prominence where it belongs.


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

I wanted Gay State, wait K-State to win, but I was rooting for Butler. I just can not truly root for my rival team. If the Tigggers of Mizzery was in the same boat like last year, I just could not at all. Congrats to Kansas State for a great season.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> And I told you that a bunch of delusional homers shouldn't set the standard for whether a team had a good year or not. Against all realistic expectations, Kentucky had a fine year. They didn't surprise, but they certainly didn't disappoint.


Name me another team that has 4 future lottery guys on their team and couldn't even make it to the FF?


----------



## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> What is really different about the scenario you lay out and the one we have now? If there is money to be made, money is going to flow. AAU coaches already control the vast majority of the process, because NCAA rules restrict coaching contact and practice time.
> 
> Given that the high and mighties on this thread are without exception fans of programs that stand to benefit the most from the removal of a Calipari, the only thing ridiculous here is you refusing to admit where the real disdain for Calipari comes from.


Calipari is Coach K and Tom Izzo's red-headed stepchild.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

BlueBaron said:


> UK had a great season... I would have liked a championship but I'm not disappointed too much. Cal is not going to the NBA. Anyone who thinks so doesn't know much about basketball. Orton will be back. Bledsoe may be back but I wouldn't be surprised to see him go. The refs sucked as there were bad calls on both teams. I got annoyed with Dick Einberg the most with his Alzheimer's induced banter and Bilas who talks like he's got blisters on his tongue. We will be back next year... UK basketball is back to prominence where it belongs.


Your right, I don't know anything about basketball because I think Calipari is going back to the NBA. :whiteflag: 

Seriously though, he might as well jump ship while the jumping is good. Cal knows this too.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Name me another team that has 4 future lottery guys on their team and couldn't even make it to the FF?


If teams regularly had 4 future lottery guys and the vast majority of them were underlcassmen, there would be plenty of teams to not make it. Kentucky was not a balanced team this year. They had no outside shooters and struggled to play a halfcourt game due to their inexperience. The NCAA Tournament essentially set up the field for a sweet 16 upset by giving them all halfcourt teams on their side of the bracket. And they still made it within 1 game of the Final Four. 

Your jealousy of Cal's ability to reel in big name recruits couldn't be more obvious.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Your right, I don't know anything about basketball because I think Calipari is going back to the NBA. :whiteflag:
> 
> Seriously though, he might as well jump ship while the jumping is good. Cal knows this too.


And about the time Cal doesn't jump to the NBA is the time you'll go on a 6th month sabbatical, only to come back next fall raving about Elias Harris' soft skin.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

The way Cal recruits is probably his biggest detriment to winning it all...I for one am would not be jealous


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

I guess you guys are right. 

The Fab 5 were a blight on the integrity of college basketball, and being forced to watch them in the tournament was a hell I won't soon forget. 

And geez, if only those Rose-Augustin and Rose-Collison/Westbrook matchups hadn't taken place. I would have actually enjoyed the 08 tournmanet!

Don't even get me started on how Oden ruined it for everybody in 07 - I started watching the women's tournament instead!


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Now if I am right, didnt the Fab 5 get hit with scandals?

What do all those other names you mentioned have to do with Cal being a sleazy coach? Dude has had most of his big games expunged from record books. Those Rose matchups dont exist lol


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> If teams regularly had 4 future lottery guys and the vast majority of them were underlcassmen, there would be plenty of teams to not make it. Kentucky was not a balanced team this year. They had no outside shooters and struggled to play a halfcourt game due to their inexperience. The NCAA Tournament essentially set up the field for a sweet 16 upset by giving them all halfcourt teams on their side of the bracket. And they still made it within 1 game of the Final Four.
> 
> Your jealousy of Cal's ability to reel in big name recruits couldn't be more obvious.


If Calipari had ever won a national championship I suppose I could be jealous. I'm more envious of Tom Izzo and Coach K though.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> And about the time Cal doesn't jump to the NBA is the time you'll go on a 6th month sabbatical, only to come back next fall raving about Elias Harris' soft skin.


Are you trying to bring to my attention that Harris has soft skin?


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

HB said:


> Now if I am right, didnt the Fab 5 get hit with scandals?
> 
> What do all those other names you mentioned have to do with Cal being a sleazy coach? Dude has had most of his big games expunged from record books. Those Rose matchups dont exist lol


shhhhh! Don't tell Mr. Jonathan Watters, he's in denial.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

HB said:


> Now if I am right, didnt the Fab 5 get hit with scandals?
> 
> What do all those other names you mentioned have to do with Cal being a sleazy coach? Dude has had most of his big games expunged from record books. Those Rose matchups dont exist lol


Everybody around here is so high and mighty about how much better off college basketball would be without Cal. Call me crazy, but I'm glad the Fab 5 and Derrick Rose went to college. 

I know, stupid me. Seeing those guys in college totally sucked. They were a "blight" on college ball.

Ever wonder why the NCAA doesn't actually get rid of a guy like Calipari?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I never said anything about getting rid of him (the guy's a sleazy coach, no dodging that, lets not make him out as something he isnt), but I do think the age rule doesnt benefit him. He might actually be able to build teams where players stay more than one season if they do away with it.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

HB said:


> I never said anything about getting rid of him (the guy's a sleazy coach, no dodging that, lets not make him out as something he isnt), but I do think the age rule doesnt benefit him. He might actually be able to build teams where players stay more than one season if they do away with it.


huh? guys like dozier, taggart, anderson, cdr, dorsey, hunt, carney, etc weren't building teams where players stayed more than one season? sure, the real star players(rose, evans, wall, cousins) and the guys who overvalue their own worth(shawn williams, darius washington) will leave early but those teams wouldn't have gotten anywhere without the 3 and 4 year guys he brought in(or the ones he got to stay like patterson).

no age rule would really hurt him though because he would lose the star power from his teams.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

There's an interesting article about how he recruited CDR with Bron and Wes that I posted in another thread...anywhoo, not all his players are one and dones, but he targets players like that. The way I see it, they are soldiers for hire. _You come here for one year, you improve your draft stock and bolt to the NBA_. Why call this guys student athletes?

P.s. he's not the only one doing it, but you cant put this guy on the same pedestal as the Tubby's and Izzos of the game.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Tubby hasn't done much anything of praise since he didn't have Pitino's recruits. He hasn't been to a Final Four since. Izzo is a better coach.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> Everybody around here is so high and mighty about how much better off college basketball would be without Cal. Call me crazy, but I'm glad the Fab 5 and Derrick Rose went to college.
> 
> I know, stupid me. Seeing those guys in college totally sucked. They were a "blight" on college ball.
> 
> Ever wonder why the NCAA doesn't actually get rid of a guy like Calipari?


You think people have a problem seeing one and done players on the college level? Hah! Stephon Marbury, Chris Bosh, Kevin Love, Kevin Durant, Greg Oden were some of my favorite NCAA players I've ever watched. Did those players have recruiting scandals tied to their name?


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

HB said:


> There's an interesting article about how he recruited CDR with Bron and Wes that I posted in another thread...anywhoo, not all his players are one and dones, but he targets players like that. The way I see it, they are soldiers for hire. _You come here for one year, you improve your draft stock and bolt to the NBA_. Why call this guys student athletes?
> 
> P.s. he's not the only one doing it, but you cant put this guy on the same pedestal as the Tubby's and Izzos of the game.


I guess you missed the part where Dozier, CDR, Dorsey, and Anderson all got a year playing together at Laurinburg before they got to Memphis. Team building and chemistry absolutely played a role in Memphis reaching the national championship game.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> You think people have a problem seeing one and done players on the college level? Hah! Stephon Marbury, Chris Bosh, Kevin Love, Kevin Durant, Greg Oden were some of my favorite NCAA players I've ever watched. Did those players have recruiting scandals tied to their name?


You are using Stephon Marbury as an example of a clean one and done? 

I rest my case...


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> You are using Stephon Marbury as an example of a clean one and done?
> 
> I rest my case...


Maybe not Marbury, but there are clearly others, however most of Tech's wrongdoings with Marbury were purely conjecture. If you enjoy the shady side of college ball more power to you. Most people who honor integrity enjoy it when programs do it the clean way. I compare it to those who use steriods, your not only cheating the game, but yourself.

In Calipari's case, he's cheating his coaching abilities.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Maybe not Marbury, but there are clearly others, however most of Tech's wrongdoings with Marbury were purely conjecture. If you enjoy the shady side of college ball more power to you. Most people who honor integrity enjoy it when programs do it the clean way. I compare it to those who use steriods, your not only cheating the game, but yourself.
> 
> In Calipari's case, he's cheating his coaching abilities.


The only thing that separates the "conjecture" from vacated tournament runs is whether the NCAA likes you or not. If the NCAA decides to go after a top program, it can take down whoever it wants. Calipari might be more blatant than most, but he serves a role in college hoops that is going to be there. Either accept Calipari, or learn to enjoy your basketball without the Durant's, Oden's and John Wall's of the world.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Calipari isnt the only one getting one and dones...but am I supposed to believe the other coaches getting same players are just as shady? Did Barnes get 'Durant' through back room deals? Did Roy pick up Brandan Wright and Marvin Williams the same way? Am I supposed to believe Hewitt beat out all the top schools to get Favors because he played dirty?

Now I could be wrong, but I dont think these coaches are on the same pedestal.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

First off, I have a problem with the word "shady", in that it implies Calipari is doing something that is wrong/harmful to others. What he does might technically be against the rules, but I don't find it harmful to anybody - given how well he develops his players, he's probably the best that a lot of these "to the highest bidder" kids could ever hope for in terms of their development. 

If you are going to force me to use the word "shady", Calipari is certainly on a different pedestal than a lot of the other powerhouse coaches. But you are just as foolish to believe that the high-level recruits at the other programs you mention aren't being taken care of. Whether it is a shoe company or an agent, these high level players are being taken care of. And the program is the friend of the shoe company/agent. This is how these things work. 

If anything, Calipari's indiscretions are more than just "conjecture" because he had the nerve to stop using traditional channels and bypassed the wrong people?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Weird enough I was just about to come post in this thread that my previous posts makes Cal sound like a villain, but the guy does a lot of stuff for charity. There's two sides to the man, but seriously how do you think fans of Memphis and Umass feel about Cal's ways? You think they dont consider him shady OR the stuff he's done harmful? I know a Memphis fan that was absolutely elated when Kentucky lost, mostly because of Cal. The guy jumped ship only to let those schools feel the wrath of the NCAA, that feels shady to me.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

HB said:


> Weird enough I was just about to come post in this thread that my previous posts makes Cal sound like a villain, but the guy does a lot of stuff for charity. There's two sides to the man, but seriously how do you think fans of Memphis and Umass feel about Cal's ways? You think they dont consider him shady OR the stuff he's done harmful? I know a Memphis fan that was absolutely elated when Kentucky lost, mostly because of Cal. The guy jumped ship only to let those schools feel the wrath of the NCAA, thats shady.


If the school wasn't aware of what was going on, then it would be shady. But once again, that's a naive opinion to hold. 

Plus, was Memphis punished going forward? Last I checked, Memphis has the #1 recruiting class in the country!

So since "feeling the wrath" of the NCAA, Calipari landed the #1 recruiting class for 09-10, and Memphis for 10-11. Sure seems like the NCAA is doing a lot to reign in these shady enterprises, doesn't it?


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

I would also add that the way the NCAA handled the Rose scandal was worse than "shady". They knew full well what was going on before the season even started - yet they let Rose play all the way through the tournament before dropping the hammer. How much money and brand recognition was collected from Rose's incredible tournament run? In addition to pocketing all those dollars, they made Memphis repay their share of tournament revenues. Do you think the NCAA gives that money back to CBS advertisers since the time slots they paid for never really aired?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> If the school wasn't aware of what was going on, then it would be shady. But once again, that's a naive opinion to hold.
> 
> Plus, was Memphis punished going forward? Last I checked, Memphis has the #1 recruiting class in the country!
> 
> So since "feeling the wrath" of the NCAA, Calipari landed the #1 recruiting class for 09-10, and Memphis for 10-11. Sure seems like the NCAA is doing a lot to reign in these shady enterprises, doesn't it?


Haha dont tell Memphis fans that they dont have a right to be ticked at Cal. Pastner just happens to be one heck of a recruiter, the way Cal left that team high and dry, they are lucky they are getting the number 1 class. HE DID NOT DO THEM ANY FAVORS....dont act like he somehow positioned them to be better after he left. Even if you dont think he's shady, what he did to Memphis is a straight up punk move.

Guy sees investigations going on, bolts for greener pastures and also takes with him some highly prized recruits. Yup sounds very clean to me...NOT!


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

The entire system is shady. The NCAA and TV networks are making boatloads of money because of young men who are not getting paid by them either officially or unofficially, does that make sense from an economical standpoint? I don't know what's going on behind the scenes to land the top recruits, but I have very hard time believing that Calipari is in the vast minority when it comes to dubious recruiting practices.


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

HB said:


> Calipari isnt the only one getting one and dones...but am I supposed to believe the other coaches getting same players are just as shady? Did Barnes get 'Durant' through back room deals? Did Roy pick up Brandan Wright and Marvin Williams the same way? Am I supposed to believe Hewitt beat out all the top schools to get Favors because he played dirty?
> 
> Now I could be wrong, but I dont think these coaches are on the same pedestal.


Why else would Favors go to GT? Surely wasn't because they had a great science lab...


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

HB said:


> Haha dont tell Memphis fans that they dont have a right to be ticked at Cal. Pastner just happens to be one heck of a recruiter, the way Cal left that team high and dry, they are lucky they are getting the number 1 class. HE DID NOT DO THEM ANY FAVORS....dont act like he somehow positioned them to be better after he left. Even if you dont think he's shady, what he did to Memphis is a straight up punk move.
> 
> Guy sees investigations going on, bolts for greener pastures and also takes with him some highly prized recruits. Yup sounds very clean to me...NOT!


What reason do they have to be ticked at Cal? Has the program fallen apart? Did the NCAA significantly restrict their ability to win in the future? 

The difference between your opinion and mine is that you want to place 100% of the blame on Calipari and believe that the other parties involved had no idea what was going on. 

I want to acknowledge the fact that the NCAA is the one who profited massively from the Rose scandal, and that the university knew full well what was going on at the time the violations took place/when they hired him in the first place. 

Why is the fundamental basis of your position that the parties benefiting the most from all of this were nothing more than innocent bystanders?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Lol you are an interesting guy, and you even try to lecture me on how I should feel about Calipari. You are telling me I want to place 100% blame on Cal, whilst you dont even want him getting any blame. If you were a student at Memphis or one of their loyal fans I bet you wouldn't be talking the way you are. Hey BB how did you feel when Sutton tarnished the Kentucky image?

Again they are lucky that Pastner seems to have learned a lot about recruiting from his predecessor, what if they werent able to get any of those recruits? Still think Cal's intentions werent bad for bolting to greener pastures and leaving them with the NCAA violations? 

Just because I have come down on Cal doesnt mean I dont think the NCAA is clean. The system is flawed, anyone who follows the game knows this. CJ Leslie just said 5 guys will leave Kentucky for the NBA this year, the message it sends out to all the top recruits is that, you can come to Kentucky for one year, get to showcase your skills and bolt to the NBA immediately. The NCAA created that environment, Cal is just doing his best to prosper in it. They are both guilty.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

BlueBaron said:


> Why else would Favors go to GT? Surely wasn't because they had a great science lab...


I for one know Favors could have gone to any school he wanted. Its not like Gtech is an elite school.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

croco said:


> The entire system is shady. The NCAA and TV networks are making boatloads of money because of young men who are not getting paid by them either officially or unofficially, does that make sense from an economical standpoint? I don't know what's going on behind the scenes to land the top recruits, but I have very hard time believing that Calipari is in the vast minority when it comes to dubious recruiting practices.


Blue Chips pretty much exposes what goes on behind the scenes with these top schools.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Favors is from Atlanta. GT is in Atlanta. Hence he went to GT...And Tech is also one of the top schools in the world for engineering so their science labs could have been a factor.


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

Diable said:


> Favors is from Atlanta. GT is in Atlanta. Hence he went to GT...And Tech is also one of the top schools in the world for engineering so their science labs could have been a factor.


I knew it!!!!


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Diable said:


> Favors is from Atlanta. GT is in Atlanta. Hence he went to GT...And Tech is also one of the top schools in the world for engineering so their science labs could have been a factor.


How much time do you think Favors spent in a science lab over the last two semesters?


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

HB said:


> Lol you are an interesting guy, and you even try to lecture me on how I should feel about Calipari. You are telling me I want to place 100% blame on Cal, whilst you dont even want him getting any blame. If you were a student at Memphis or one of their loyal fans I bet you wouldn't be talking the way you are. Hey BB how did you feel when Sutton tarnished the Kentucky image?


I love how your heart starts to bleed the minute you can cast doubt on a guy stealing potential recruits from North Carolina...



> Again they are lucky that Pastner seems to have learned a lot about recruiting from his predecessor, what if they werent able to get any of those recruits? Still think Cal's intentions werent bad for bolting to greener pastures and leaving them with the NCAA violations?


Or maybe Cal knew that Pastner had great inroads with this group of recruits, considering Pastner was his lead freaking recruiter and both of them had developed relationships with the kids in question years ago? No, that's crazy talk...

And you still haven't actually mentioned what NCAA sanctions will hurt the Memphis program going forward...



> Just because I have come down on Cal doesnt mean I dont think the NCAA is clean. The system is flawed, anyone who follows the game knows this. CJ Leslie just said 5 guys will leave Kentucky for the NBA this year, the message it sends out to all the top recruits is that, you can come to Kentucky for one year, get to showcase your skills and bolt to the NBA immediately. The NCAA created that environment, Cal is just doing his best to prosper in it. They are both guilty.


Yep. So no reason to go around ranting and raving about how dirty Cal is. You admit the NCAA is dirty, yet you won't admit that they might just picking on the guy who hasn't done "dirty" the NCAA-sponsored way.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

The type of players Cal goes after arent typically what Roy likes. Walls' the only one in recent memory that supposedly he was trying to recruit. But knowing that Wall was a one and done, he doesnt really fit into what Roy tries to do with his teams. Most of his players stay a couple of years, Cal on the other hand really likes the players for hire.



> Or maybe Cal knew that Pastner had great inroads with this group of recruits, considering Pastner was his lead freaking recruiter and both of them had developed relationships with the kids in question years ago? No, that's crazy talk...
> 
> And you still haven't actually mentioned what NCAA sanctions will hurt the Memphis program going forward...


A school that just had a couple of wins vacated and had the type of publicity Memphis had typically isn't an attractive destination for recruits. I dont know why you try to brush over these things like they are somewhat helpful to Memphis. I really hope you dont try to tell a Memphis fan that the violations dont mean anything because they are still able to reel in recruits. Dude they just had a final four and a championship game appearance wiped off their slate. This stuff matters. Just because Pastner is a heck of a recruiter doesnt mean things are all fine and dandy at Memphis.

See Indiana for reference, how's that program doing nowadays?



> Yep. So no reason to go around ranting and raving about how dirty Cal is. You admit the NCAA is dirty, yet you won't admit that they might just picking on the guy who hasn't done "dirty" the NCAA-sponsored way.


Actually I am saying all parties deserve blame...you on the other hand think Cal's a saint or at least thats how you try to portray him.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

HB said:


> A school that just had a couple of wins vacated and had the type of publicity Memphis had typically isn't an attractive destination for recruits. I dont know why you try to brush over these things like they are somewhat helpful to Memphis. I really hope you dont try to tell a Memphis fan that the violations dont mean anything because they are still able to reel in recruits. Dude they just had a final four and a championship game appearance wiped off their slate. This stuff matters. Just because Pastner is a heck of a recruiter doesnt mean things are all fine and dandy at Memphis.


You honestly believe that Cal had no inclination of what the program would do after he left? He didn't leave it high and dry, he left it stocked!

And quit acting like it is pure luck that Pastner can recruit. Why do you think he was a member of Cal's staff in the first place? Do you honestly believe Cal wasn't aware of what Pastner was going to be able to do?



> See Indiana for reference, how's that program doing nowadays?


You really think the way Sampson left Indiana and the way Calipari left Memphis are comparable? Much more comparable would be the way Sampson left Oklahoma, (w/ major inroads in recruiting) than the way he left Indiana (high and dry). Even then, Memphis was obviously in much better shape. 




> Actually I am saying all parties deserve blame...you on the other hand think Cal's a saint or at least thats how you try to portray him.


Well if all parties deserve blame, why do you only make holier than thou statements when Calipari and the talent he recruits is the subject? Maybe you should act haughty when the NCAA does something self-serving or poor little Memphis keeps handing out dough to recruits like Calipari never even left. Wait, you mean that is already happening?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Pastner obviously learned some stuff from his predecessor, but dont act like Cal's doing them a favor. Cal will go after a recruit if he thinks it helps his cause, he's not going to ignore a player because Pastner is interested. I know a couple of Memphis fans, and after Cal bolted, a lot of them were bitter. Its like you dont realize, or maybe you should youtube the images on Beal street when they made it to the final four. It was a big deal man. Now its vacated and their coach bolts over to greener pastures and to rub it in, guy's on TV a lot, and they are talking about his prized class etc etc. You are telling them to not feel bad because they have a nice class coming in. Come on man!

The NCAA is faceless, makes it hard to go after an entity without a face.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

HB said:


> Pastner obviously learned some stuff from his predecessor, but dont act like Cal's doing them a favor. Cal will go after a recruit if he thinks it helps his cause, he's not going to ignore a player because Pastner is interested. I know a couple of Memphis fans, and after Cal bolted, a lot of them were bitter. Its like you dont realize, or maybe you should youtube the images on Beal street when they made it to the final four. It was a big deal man. Now its vacated and their coach bolts over to greener pastures and to rub it in, guy's on TV a lot, and they are talking about his prized class etc etc. You are telling them to not feel bad because they have a nice class coming in. Come on man!


Dude. 

You said Cal left them "high and dry". He did not leave them "high and dry", he left them with a roster stocked full of talent and perhaps the best recruiting assistant in the country in the country. If he was leaving them "high and dry", don't you think he would have taken Pastner with him? 

Please realize that disagreeing with your statement does not mean I think Cal did them a favor. I never even came close to saying that Cal was doing them a favor. Where do you come up with this stuff?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

He left them with a roster stocked full of talent lol...didn't that team just get kicked out of the NIT? That team couldnt make the NCAA tourney in from the weak Conf-USA. By the way, my fried from Memphis definitely thinks he left them high and dry.

Again do you not realize that the most memorable event in their sports history or at least one of them has been eviscerated from record books?

And that talk about taking Pastner with him doesnt make sense. What if Pastner wants to be his own man?

As for doing them or not doing them a favor, you keep implying that Memphis fans have no bone to pick with Cal, that the violations have not affected the team in the long run because they have a nice class coming in.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> Dude.
> 
> You said Cal left them "high and dry". He did not leave them "high and dry", he left them with a roster stocked full of talent and perhaps the best recruiting assistant in the country in the country. If he was leaving them "high and dry", don't you think he would have taken Pastner with him?
> 
> Please realize that disagreeing with your statement does not mean I think Cal did them a favor. I never even came close to saying that Cal was doing them a favor. Where do you come up with this stuff?


lol, bring Pastner with him? Because if I'm a young, aspiring coach I want ride Calipari's coattails or start my own thing and make a ton more dough. Probably the dumbest comment yet.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

HB said:


> He left them with a roster stocked full of talent lol...didn't that team just get kicked out of the NIT? That team couldnt make the NCAA tourney in from the weak Conf-USA. By the way, my fried from Memphis definitely thinks he left them high and dry.


Your Tar Heels are in the same tournament. I'd say their roster is fairly talented. Just like Memphis'. Are you really trying to say that Memphis' roster wasn't talented? Are you trying to argue that the major inroads with the current recruiting class weren't made under Cal's tenure? Because both of those statements would be extremely ignorant...



> Again do you not realize that the most memorable event in their sports history or at least one of them has been eviscerated from record books?


I remember it happening. Again, you use the ruling of a party that you have freely admitted is corrupt and part of the problem, as if it is unbiased and should be accepted without question. You want to have your cake and eat it to? 



> And that talk about taking Pastner with him doesnt make sense. What if Pastner wants to be his own man?


Pastner wanting to be his own man has nothing to do with it. You are trying to argue that Cal left Memphis high and dry, when he did absolutely nothing of the sort. 



> As for doing them or not doing them a favor, you keep implying that Memphis fans have no bone to pick with Cal, that the violations have not affected the team in the long run because they have a nice class coming in.


No, that isn't what I'm implying. I'm implying that you are overreacting big time to the way Cal left. You brought up Indiana as an example of what happens when a coach leaves a team high and dry. Memphis was not left high and dry, and the situation wasn't all Cal's doing in the first place. 

It could have gone much, much worse for Memphis. For a team that just had a final four vacated, they are in outstanding shape.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Meh this is just going round and round in circles and you gave it away with the Pastner and talented roster talk. For some reason you think Cal did Memphis a favor, I'll tell you this HE DIDNT. He did leave them high and dry. Investigation was going on, everyone and their mama knew the NCAA would come down on Memphis. He bolted, and left them to deal with the repercussions. You said it yourself, Cal isnt liked by the NCAA, so how would he have known what the results were? What if the school had been put on probation and they couldn't compete? That make him a sleazy guy? I dont know how many times I have to keep repeating this, and I wish the Memphis fans I know could come and speak to this...you CANNOT tell the fans of a team that saw their coach bolt to another team taking with him some high prized recruits, and leaving their teams with NCAA violations and vacated wins to somehow feel like this guy had their best interest in mind. Thats ridiculous.

As for the Tar Heels, lol we play in the ACC. Memphis is in the Conf-USA. Our Non-conf schedule is probably tougher than anyone Memphis faced in that conference. Yet Memphis couldnt make the tourney with supposedly a talented roster. Joke.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

First off, I'm not talking to a Memphis fan. I'm talking to a self-righteous UNC fan who wants to feel like he is better than Kentucky fans and does this by talking them down. Big difference between somebody who has actually been wronged by Cal and some knucklehead that gets his self esteem from how good his favorite basketball team happens to be. 

Willie Kemp former Top 100 recruit
Robert Sallie former Top 100 recruit
Wesley Witherspoon former Top 50 recruit
Angel Garcia former Top 50 recruit
Doneal Mack former Top 100 recruit
Elliot Williams former McDonald's All-American
Will Coleman considered by most to be the top JC big man recruit in the country

Yeah, no talent there. Totally comparable to the situation at Indiana where the top returnee was a walk-on. 

I don't even know why I bother. You've never let a little detail like being completely wrong get in the way of your personal bias.

(Still waiting to hear what repercussions Memphis is dealing with that Cal isn't. He lost the FF just like Memphis did...)


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Lol so Zagsfan is also a self righteous UNC fan?

Look man, Cal bolted when things got hot. It couldnt be about the money because Memphis was ready to give him the money. It most certainly wasn't about recruiting, because the big name players were going to come play for him. He did get Evans and Rose to play at Memphis. You are trying to make the man out to be what he's not. All this self righteous talk is junk. Any coach who did what Cal did at Memphis, be it Roy or whoever will get the same treatment for me. If Roy bolted for another team in same dubious fashion, I'll be talking about him the same way. Heck KA still takes jabs at Roy for leaving Kansas for UNC and Roy didnt leave that program with vacated wins. Lol at what repercussions Cal dealt with that Memphis isnt ummmm did you miss the part that there's no way he could know what the NCAA would conclude, what if it was worse? He'll be the coach at UK starting afresh, that was his intentions from the get go. Is this really so hard to grasp?

You are the one who keeps bringing UNC into this, like Cal is some kind of threat to the Tar Heels. Dude Roy's won two titles in the last five years, he keeps pulling in killer recruits. Even in a down year, you see how many recruits he has got lined up/targeting? You somehow act like Cal is messing things up for UNC and Roy. Like this should bother me or something...heck no!


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

HB said:


> Lol so Zagsfan is also a self righteous UNC fan?


No, he's a self righteous Gonzaga fan. Didn't grasp the concept of other high level programs - not just your own? 



> Look man, Cal bolted when things got hot. It couldnt be about the money because Memphis was ready to give him the money. It most certainly wasn't about recruiting, because the big name players were going to come play for him. He did get Evans and Rose to play at Memphis. You are trying to make the man out to be what he's not. All this self righteous talk is junk. Any coach who did what Cal did at Memphis, be it Roy or whoever will get the same treatment for me. If Roy bolted for another team in same dubious fashion, I'll be talking about him the same way. Heck KA still takes jabs at Roy for leaving Kansas for UNC and Roy didnt leave that program with vacated wins. Lol at what repercussions Cal dealt with that Memphis isnt ummmm did you miss the part that there's no way he could know what the NCAA would conclude, what if it was worse? He'll be the coach at UK starting afresh, that was his intentions from the get go. Is this really so hard to grasp?


I grasp all of it. You keep making the same mindless argument over and over again. You are so quick to say Pastner was doing what was best for Pastner, but what about Calipari getting offered the head coaching job at Kentucky? Did he not get a pay raise? Is Kentucky not a better job than Memphis? Coaches leave programs all the time, and most of the time that program is in much, much worse shape than Memphis was in. Obviously Cal didn't leave under good circumstances, but for this to be your main talking point on why he is dirty is beyond ridiculous. Stick to an argument you might actually be able to make without lowering yourself to toddler logic (again). 

You keep mentioning all these "what-if's", but the fact of the matter is that Calipari did what was best for both parties. Memphis has done fine with one of the best young recruiters out there, and Calipari is still doing his thing in a bigger spotlight. Plus, fans of other power programs get to act all high and mighty. Yet according to you, he's a blight on college basketball. 



> You are the one who keeps bringing UNC into this, like Cal is some kind of threat to the Tar Heels. Dude Roy's won two titles in the last five years, he keeps pulling in killer recruits. Even in a down year, you see how many recruits he has got lined up/targeting? You somehow act like Cal is messing things up for UNC and Roy. Like this should bother me or something...heck no!


For somebody who says Calipari doesn't bother them, you sure spend a lot of time bashing him for being dirty.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

He left the program right when the NCAA was about to drop the hammer on Memphis. Quite convenient dont you think. Memphis had just gone to the finals, it wasnt like he was in a bad situation. Lol at me making the same mindless argument over and over again, dude its the argument pretty all Memphis fans will give you, but hey you know best, after all you are the standard for objectivity.

I am done with this, stick in your fantasy world where Cal's done the best for all parties involved, too bad the folks in Memphis dont see it that way. And yes I do post a lot about Cal's 'sleaziness' it amazes me how much dirt surrounds one guy.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

HB said:


> He left the program right when the NCAA was about to drop the hammer on Memphis. Quite convenient dont you think. Memphis had just gone to the finals, it wasnt like he was in a bad situation. Lol at me making the same mindless argument over and over again, dude its the argument pretty all Memphis fans will give you, but hey you know best, after all you are the standard for objectivity.
> 
> I am done with this, stick in your fantasy world where Cal's done the best for all parties involved, too bad the folks in Memphis dont see it that way. And yes I do post a lot about Cal's 'sleaziness' it amazes me how much dirt surrounds one guy.



You blast me for my lack of objectivity, but fail to mention that I'm no Kentucky fan. Then you go and trumpet the opinion of Memphis fans as objective? Yes, it is obviously me that is living in a fantasy world. 

My lack of allegiance to a specific program is well known, and I'm never afraid to call it like I see it. You, on the other hand...your lack of objectivity is your one defining characteristic as a poster. 

I'm glad we are to the point in the argument where I've whipped you soundly enough that you are threatening to walk away. My guess is that it will take 3 or 4 more posts before you slink away entirely?


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

UK needed a coach. Cal wanted to come to UK. He wanted to come 3 years ago but UK's ******* AD never bothered to offer. I see him leaving Memphis at the time he did pure coincidence. Had UK not called he would still be at Memphis, would he not?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Had to come back to this, but is a coach who tries to push his star player to go to the pros because he wants to bring in recruits be considered a sleazy coach?

Okay let me just add, I dont know all the details, and Wall could just be bull****ting, but this is quite an interesting predicament he will be putting on Kentucky. I figure the guy's a super star in college and he is really loving the experience. So him saying he wants to stay isnt out of the question.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Why wouldn't he want Wall to stay? I mean he has recruited Wall twice.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

HB said:


> Had to come back to this, but is a coach who tries to push his star player to go to the pros because he wants to bring in recruits be considered a sleazy coach?


The guy is rumored to be returning 4 scholarship players. You think he's getting kids to leave so he has space to bring in new ones? Especially when the one he's supposedly "shady" in asking to leave is a first team all-american? 

He's pushing his first team AA PG out the door so he has room to sign 10 players in this class instead of 9? When this guy is the #1 pick in the draft? Seriously? 

This isn't just a stretch, its a fantasy. And you "had" to bring up your fantasy? You "have" to never let anything die, regardless how ridiculous you are being and how many times you've said you are going to leave it alone. 

That's the only "have" when it comes to you around here. It really is a pleasure for me to watch you stoop lower and lower in what you will argue because you can't handle the fact that you were wrong. Please keep it up...




> Okay let me just add, I dont know all the details, and Wall could just be bull****ting, but this is quite an interesting predicament he will be putting on Kentucky. I figure the guy's a super star in college and he is really loving the experience. So him saying he wants to stay isnt out of the question.


It is completely out of the question.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Lol I must admit I do find your posts entertaining, especially when you go on the whole moral high horse thingy...think I care? 

Its a message board, we are supposed to post our opinions. There are a lot of rumors out there, it will be interesting what happens if Wall decides to stay. There are so many undecided high school stars that the decision will impact.

P.s. what four scholarship players is he returning?


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

HB said:


> Lol I must admit I do find your posts entertaining, especially when you go on the whole moral high horse thingy...think I care?


It is very obvious you couldn't care less whether your arguments have a shred of legitimacy to them. A typical person wouldn't be proud of this fact that they are willing to corrupt the truth to such levels, they would be ashamed. 



> Its a message board, we are supposed to post our opinions. There are a lot of rumors out there, it will be interesting what happens if Wall decides to stay. There are so many undecided high school stars that the decision will impact.


Too bad your opinions aren't really opinions, but just the latest charade to keep a dead argument going. The sad thing is that you could be continuing the discussion in a legitimate manner, as there is another side to it. But you too unmotivated/pathetic to even try that.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

according to a REAL Kentucky fan



> just talk about how he (Wall), cousins, and bledsoe loved college and the fans so much and feel they have unfinished business. in reality though, there's probably less than a 1 percent chance he and Cousins stay. I'd love to be wrong of course.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Bringing this UP YET AGAIN

*Link*



> “I thought, ‘What are you talking about.’ Then I found out UK released a statement saying Patrick and the four freshmen are leaving for the NBA and will declare for the draft,” said Tywanna Patterson Wednesday night. “I said, ‘Really, nobody told me.”
> 
> She tried to call her son but could not get him to answer his cell phone. Next she called DeWayne Peevy of the UK sports information office. He told her the statement from UK “wasn’t official” but that coach John Calipari had released a statement that the freshmen along with Patrick would be declaring for the NBA draft and leaving UK.
> 
> ...


B...B...but wait, I thought Cal was too clean for stuff like this. Why the heck would he rush to such? Oh wait, didn't I mention a few posts above, that the guy's trying to push these guys away to make room for new recruits?


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

There are two options here: 

1) Kentucky ends up with empty scholarship slots for the 2010-11 season

2) Kentucky takes a less-heralded (possibly JC transfer) recruit that in no way, shape or form compares to Patterson. 

Either way, you are clearly incapable of doing the simple math it would take to realize how ridiculous your premise is. Not even the highest of the high and mighties is dumb enough to actually believe what you just posted. 

This is how it is going to play out, and you will never hear the end of it from me. No "you quoted me saying it but I didn't really say it" garbage. You really painted yourself into a corner this time!


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

So what you are basically saying is Mrs Patterson is worked up over nothing?


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

I'm saying nothing about Mrs Patterson. 

According to you - Calipari loved Patterson's game so much that he was attempting to get the player with the highest PER in recorded college history to shoot less so Patterson could shoot more. 

And now, he's dislikes his presence on the team so much that he is forcing Patterson out the door so he can add an 8th player to his 2010 recruiting class? He's not just going to find 1 additional player he likes more than Patterson, he's going to find six? 

Like I said, you won't be backing your way out of this one. Your obcession with me has finally caught up to you.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Lol dude have you been watching the Criss Cross videos of late, cause all I see is you jumping around from one point to another. 

Address the issue at hand, how is Calipari proclaiming to the media that Patterson and his other teammates are declaring for the draft without their parents or at least one parents' consent not considered pushing them out the door? 

WTH does that have to do with all the other nonsense you just put up? You are the one that has been blindly defending Cal at every step, and when evidence comes out that the man isnt as saintly as you claim he is, you bring up another issue. Bump that other thread if you want to talk about Patterson. Meanwhile, as per the above point, is this a sleazy move OR NOT?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Jonathan Watters said:


> I'm saying nothing about Mrs Patterson.
> 
> *According to you - Calipari loved Patterson's game so much that he was attempting to get the player with the highest PER in recorded college history to shoot less so Patterson could shoot more. *
> 
> *And now, he's dislikes his presence on the team so much that he is forcing Patterson out the door so he can add an 8th player to his 2010 recruiting class?* He's not just going to find 1 additional player he likes more than Patterson, he's going to find six?


Lol whut? Are you high? I gave you articles, direct quotes from Cal where he said he wanted Patterson to shoot more, somehow you have twisted that into me saying Cal is in love with the guy. Gotcha. 

With that said, why did Cal go to the media behind Patterson's back? What are his motives? Can you answer please?


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

HB said:


> Lol whut? Are you high? I gave you articles, direct quotes from Cal where he said he wanted Patterson to shoot more, somehow you have twisted that into me saying Cal is in love with the guy. Gotcha.


Obviously you thought Cal respected Patterson's game enough to want him to shoot more at Cousins' expense. Are you actually going to deny that this was your train of thought? 

How does Cal go from wanting him to shoot more at the expense of one of the most efficient players in the history of the game, to preferring an open roster spot? Any answer there? 



> With that said, why did Cal go to the media behind Patterson's back? What are his motives? Can you answer please?


You are ASSUMING he went behind Patterson's back. Do we have quotes from Patterson saying he isn't declaring for the draft? Don't you think if Patterson didn't want to declare for the draft, he would have said something and not his mother? How come you get to make assumption after assumption, but when I quote you directly I am doing something wrong? 

It doesn't matter what Calipari's "motive" was. Patterson actually wanting to declare for the draft, and Calipari encouraging him to do what is best for him is certainly a possibility. Calipari wanting to open a roster spot certainly isn't, and is just the latest example of your downward spiral.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

HB said:


> Address the issue at hand, how is Calipari proclaiming to the media that Patterson and his other teammates are declaring for the draft without their parents or at least one parents' consent not considered pushing them out the door?


why would he need a parent's consent?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Hullo!*



> Tywanna Patterson was at a mall in West Virginia when her cell phone started buzzing with folks calling to congratulate her on Patrick's decision. Perplexed since Patrick had told her that he wouldn't make a final decision for another week or two, Tywanna called her son, coach John Calipari and Kentucky sports information to find out what was going on.
> 
> "We were confused people by then," she told the Danville Advocate-Messenger. "I have a problem with it going out and not being official. It is his decision. He has not declared for the draft and once he does he can’t back out because he declared for the draft last year. But I am very upset with all this."
> 
> ...


:laugh: at the downward spiral comment. That did make me chuckle.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

So you actually believe that this article backs up your assumption that Cal is pushing out Patterson so he can add other recruits - you know, what I'm actually disagreeing with you about? 

The article you posted would be relevant if I didn't believe that Mrs. Patterson said those things - but, big shocker here...I'm not arguing about that. 

Do you think you could actually respond to the topic at hand, rather than just repeating yourself? 

Stupid question. Obviously you can't.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Well the article should make you wonder why he is so intent on getting the players out of the college so fast


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

And you actually think Cal would rather have an 8th scholarship open for 2010 than having Patterson back? That this is his motivation?


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