# Is Sergio worth a roster spot?



## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

What should we do with Sergio? He certainly can't be happy with the limited time he is getting, but I don't see him really having a role on the Blazers. He is a ball dominating, poor defending, poor shooting PG which is not something that works well with Roy. 

Don't get me wrong, I think Sergio has some great qualities and might prosper on another team and under a different coach, but on the Blazers I just don't see Sergio ever breaking out. 

And will a first round pick and a heap of second rounders, the MLE and trades, not to mention Rudy also coming over, roster spots will be at a premium next season. 

I think the Blazers should trade Sergio for whatever the best offer is. He is only going to ride the pine as a Blazer, and although some think he should stay because he is friends with Rudy, I think it could actually work against us. Rudy will be wanting to see Sergio play more, and it could end up causing cliques (edited for Hector) on the Blazers and hinder the TEAM spirit.


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## Hector (Nov 15, 2004)

That's "cliques." First you sign Rudy. Then you screw him over by dumping Sergio. Then you put Rudy in Sergio's 4th-5th guard spot and never play him. Then you draft a better Spaniard. Then you use Rudy as bait to sign the Spaniard. Then you dump Rudy and piss off the new Spaniard.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

Hector said:


> That's "cliques." First you sign Rudy. Then you screw him over by dumping Sergio. Then you put Rudy in Sergio's 4th-5th guard spot and never play him. Then you draft a better Spaniard. Then you use Rudy as bait to sign the Spaniard. Then you dump Rudy and piss off the new Spaniard.


What does not playing Sergio have to do with expecting us not to play Rudy? Rudy is 10 times more NBA ready than Sergio was. Heck, Sergio was coming off the bench in Europe and not getting limited minutes over there. He was drafted on potential but has not shown much improvement. Rudy on the other hand is considered one of the most NBA ready European players. Sergio can;t shoot. Rudy can shoot lights out. Sergio needs the ball in his hands to work his magic, Rudy plays very well off the ball and slashes like a master so although Sergio will not work well with Roy, Rudy should.

And how is it screwing Rudy over to trade Sergio. Rudy signed to play BBall with the Blazers, not to play bball with Sergio. He was drafted by the Blazers, who happened to also have a teammate of Rudys ,but Rudy did not sign with us to play with Sergio. Thats absurd.


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## Kekai (Jan 12, 2005)

Nah he's not, send him to the Suns please


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## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

Absolutely he is, at least for now. It may be that Fernandez will be good for him on multiple levels and I think it's highly likely that they'll get time together on the court in the second unit (though I expect Fernandez will get more PT overall).

McMillan wanted the team running more and they actually managed it for great portions of the season. They're only likely to run yet more with Fernandez and Oden added, given their skill sets and the added depth, and at _that_ point Rodriguez will have real value on the court again as defenses won't be in front of him enough to be backing off him.

It's still a pretty grand experiment, I think, and Rodriguez has skills and instincts that no other current Blazer has and, in fact, that few NBA players have -- Nash and Paul come to mind and I'm sure there are others but not many others. And the thing about both Nash and Paul is that they can both really shoot and shooting is easier to improve than that... E.S.P. or whatever it is that they all seem to share.

So yeah, I definitely think it's worth giving him at least one more season.


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## Hector (Nov 15, 2004)

Sergio and Rudy can play together brilliantly, but not under this coach. Maybe Mike D'Antoni would give us Amare for them.


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## drexlersdad (Jun 3, 2006)

hopefully jack leaves, and sergio takes all of the backup pg minutes.


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## SLAM (Jan 1, 2003)

Hector said:


> Sergio and Rudy can play together brilliantly, but not under this coach. Maybe Mike D'Antoni would give us Amare for them.


Or better yet, maybe Phoenix will give us Mike D'Antoni for Nate McMillan plus cash.


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## NateBishop3 (Jul 22, 2003)

I would love to see Sergio get a real shot at point guard.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

drexlersdad said:


> hopefully jack leaves, and sergio takes all of the backup pg minutes.


Not if it is this year's Jack and this year's Sergio.

Hopefully the Blazers get an upgrade at the PG/Backup PG spots - I do not care where it comes from - but given what we know about Jack and Sergio based on this year's performance, getting Jack's minutes to Sergio are a big step backward.

As for the question if Sergio is worth a roster spot - I would say that with the grand Greg Oden experiment coming next year - he is worth a spot, as, btw, does Jack. Jack was very effective getting the ball to the post with Z-Bo. Sergio excels in the open floor. In theory, with Oden coming next year - both of these elements could see significant improvement...


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

If the Blazers are successful in bringing Rudy over this summer, it's all but certain that at least one of our present point guards is going to be traded. At this point, it seems pretty obvious that Sergio is in Nate's dog house as all he ever gets is spot minutes, but I don't think that means that he'll necessarily be the one to go. My guess is that that decision will be determined more by which player fits into a trade for another player that KP may desire to add to the roster. I don't think that any of our point guards is so clearly superior to the others that they're safe from being packaged in a trade. Sergio has more work to do to develop his game than do Blake and Jack, but his ceiling may be higher than the other two.

It's going to be an interesting summer.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

NateBishop3 said:


> I would love to see Sergio get a real shot at point guard.


I think Sergio has had several real shots at point guard. He has shown that:

* He's not as quick as advertised (can't get around average NBA points), He actually appears to have slowed down.
* If you stay in front of him and force him to shoot, it takes away 90% of his game (penetrate and pass). Worse, he apparently has no backup plan if his A game doesn't work.
* His shot is very inconsistant
* He can't finish at the rim unless wide open
* Oh yeah, he can't guard anyone.

I think we should keep Sergio for one more year to help with Rudy and hope for some development. If nothing changes after next year then I would cut him. If it wasn't for Rudy I'd cut him right now.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Why does everyone want to see so much of Sergio? I like how he changes tempo, but that's where the line stops. He just can not hit an open shot to save his life. Telfair is Ray Allen compared to Sergio. Sergio just plays matador defense, because he isn't as quick as advertised. 
Also if Rudy won't play for us just because we trade Sergio than sorry Rudy; it's a business bud (although I doubt that's how Rudy feels)
Honestly, I do not think Sergio has great value as he has really regressed from last year and we have Koponen waiting in the wings so I think if we do deal him, it will be for consolidation purposes.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Reep said:


> I think Sergio has had several real shots at point guard. He has shown that:
> 
> * He's not as quick as advertised (can't get around average NBA points), He actually appears to have slowed down.
> * If you stay in front of him and force him to shoot, it takes away 90% of his game (penetrate and pass). Worse, he apparently has no backup plan if his A game doesn't work.
> ...



That would be great. At least we would then know that he sucks, and not just assume he does because he gets no consistent playing time.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

My big fear with Sergio is that he just isn't athletic enough to use his other gifts. If he was much quicker, or had a deadly outside shot, it would open up everything else for him. However, he hasn't become any quicker, and his shot hasn't improved.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

mediocre man said:


> That would be great. At least we would then know that he sucks, and not just assume he does because he gets no consistent playing time.


I am pretty sure that the Blazers well compensated coaching staff sees enough to form an educated opinion. I just do not understand why people think that their opinion on technical aspects of player development is that much better than the coaching staff...


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

andalusian said:


> I am pretty sure that the Blazers well compensated coaching staff sees enough to form an educated opinion. I just do not understand why people think that their opinion on technical aspects of player development is that much better than the coaching staff...



I seriously don't know how you can make such a claim when they continue to roll Jack out in games. They also refused to play Joel in the forth quarter of many games early in the year causing us to lose some of them. They also built an offense around a player last year that hurt the team more than it helped it. 


While you would hope Nate knows what he is doing, I'm not sure you can really make a good argument that he does.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Jack and Blake are leaps and bounds better then Sergio in games and most likely in practice, which is why they play over him.


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## axs31 (Jul 5, 2006)

andalusian said:


> I am pretty sure that the Blazers well compensated coaching staff sees enough to form an educated opinion. I just do not understand why people think that their opinion on technical aspects of player development is that much better than the coaching staff...


So you're saying NBA coaches can't be wrong about stuff like that? That there's never been a young player in the league who showed little under a coach who didn't play him and looked infinitely better under another?

Sergio was a project pick who had a VERY promising rookie camaign sharing the PG spot with Jack (but not at the same time, like this year) and playing with players who actually move without the ball (unlike Jack, Outlaw, Jones and Frye).. and I don't buy the whole 'teams just figured him out' thing, that sure accounts for some of his 2nd year slump, but c'mon.. Guy usually gets 3-5 minutes, shoots 0-2 or 1-3 with a turnover and 1-2 assists, and everybody is ready to cut him. Who would look good in those minutes? I'm sure neither Jack nor Blake would. I'm worried that Nate's made Sergio irreversibly miserable.


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## B-Roy (Feb 12, 2008)

MAS RipCity said:


> *Jack and Blake are leaps and bounds better then Sergio in games *and most likely in practice, which is why they play over him.


Where the hell did you get this notion? Sergio has been given little to no playing time during games. You know, let's just give Blake and Jack 3 minutes of playing time and see how well they play.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Sergio is only worth a roster spot if having him on our team helps seal the deal for Rudy to join us.


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## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

Jack puts up better numbers than Sergio only because he has the free pass from coach to play through mistakes, while Sergio doesn't. Let Sergio create by himself without the stupid high pick and pop everytime, and he'll definitely flourish. 

Unfortunately, I don't ever see Nate letting go of that Sarge mentality or his persistence of playing "the right way," so I don't see the point of letting Sergio rot on the bench here. Trade him somewhere where he can exploit his talents, and try to get back some semblance of value for him.


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## nikolokolus (Jan 29, 2008)

Comparing Sergio to Jack is laughable. Sure Jack is turnover prone, but he is actually capable of drawing contact and finishing at the rim, as well as having a much better (though not great) outside shot. Sergio is not big/strong enough to finish at the rim unless no-one is around, and his shot is not only inaccurate, it's also mechanically broken ... people want to say that the reason he usually shoots 0-2, 1-3. etc. is because of limited playing time, but the real reason is because his shot has almost no arc, which automatically makes the hoop a smaller target.

I think Sergio is worth keeping around for one more year, and hopefully he'll take this off-season as an opportunity to work extensively with a shooting coach and try to fix this area of his game (though his Spanish national team commitments make this tough). I truly think Jack is gone next year and this may give him an opportunity to show he's improved, but if he doesn't get it done next year then I think you almost have to move him.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

> Unfortunately, I don't ever see Nate letting go of that Sarge mentality or his persistence of playing "*the right way*," so I don't see the point of letting Sergio rot on the bench here.



You mean the Nate way. 

What do these PG's have in common

Paul
Nash
Williams
Tinsley
Calderon

They are 1-5 in assists per game, and none of them play the way Nate wants his PG to play. Williams is probably the closest, but even he plays too out of control for Nate


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

Free Sergio. Unless he learns to shoot, he may never be more than an exciting backup PG who makes his teammates better. Either way, I can't stand to see Nate ruin him any longer. He deserves a chance, either here or elsewhere. Unless Nate puts Sergio in charge of a fast-paced second unit (with Rudy) and lets them play a little freestyle (yeah, like that'll happen) I'd rather see Sergio play elsewhere. It's not that Nate only plays him 4 minutes a game that bugs me. It's the double standard he has with Jack (oh, god I hope he gets traded), and the fact that, as I view it, Nate has broken Sergio and his confidence, rendering him nearly useless. But yes, I do think he is still worth a roster spot. It just may not be fair to him.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

mediocre man said:


> You mean the Nate way.
> 
> What do these PG's have in common
> 
> ...


How about another quiz? What two things do these teams all have in common:

2006-07 San Antonio Spurs 
2005-06 Miami Heat Dallas 
2004-05 San Antonio Spurs 
2003-04 Detroit Pistons 
2002-03 San Antonio Spurs 
2001-02 Los Angeles Lakers 
2000-01 Los Angeles Lakers 
1999-00 Los Angeles Lakers 
1998-99 San Antonio Spurs 
1997-98 Chicago Bulls 
1996-97 Chicago Bulls 
1995-96 Chicago Bulls 
1994-95 Houston Rockets 
1993-94 Houston Rockets 
1992-93 Chicago Bulls 
1991-92 Chicago Bulls 
1990-91 Chicago Bulls 

[answer 1) NBA Champions; 2) PGs who don't dominate the ball and don't have high assist numbers]

I think I'll take Nate's way. I think his way leads to a title. I'm not interested in having our PG lead the league in assists. I would rather have the assist numbers spread out across the team--being led by Brandon.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

mediocre man said:


> I seriously don't know how you can make such a claim when they continue to roll Jack out in games.


Very simply. He gets a good game out of every 3-4 he plays in, where Sergio gets 2 a year. I do not need to see Sergio more than what I already see him to understand that he has big problems with the NBA game. Add the fact, that unlike you and me - the coaching staff do see him play everyday and that this team is leaps and bounds better than anything we expected them to be without Oden - and it is quite clear that they have a clue what they are doing. I am willing to extend this benefit of doubt when it comes to Sergio's minutes as well.



mediocre man said:


> They also refused to play Joel in the forth quarter of many games early in the year causing us to lose some of them. They also built an offense around a player last year that hurt the team more than it helped it.


Oh please, the team last year had Zach, 2 high pick hopeful rookies and a bunch of projects or none-factors. Add the fact that Aldridge started the year on the IR and Roy missed a large chunk at the start of the year - and playing around Zach's "proven good points" was pretty much the only way to go forward, not to mention that his 23/10 year allowed the team to ship him for a package that includes Rudy Fernandez - it was both the reasonable coaching decision - and in hindsight, the long-term right one to do. 



mediocre man said:


> While you would hope Nate knows what he is doing, I'm not sure you can really make a good argument that he does.


40-40 without Oden, after their #1 offensive player was shipped at the start of the season. Yup, pretty good argument.


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## nikolokolus (Jan 29, 2008)

andalusian said:


> 40-40 without Oden, after their #1 offensive player was shipped at the start of the season. Yup, pretty good argument.


Exactly what I was thinking.

Sure this is a player's league, but shouldn't Nate and his staff get at least some of the credit when it comes to simultaneously developing guys like Brandon, Aldridge, Outlaw, Martell and Channing, who all had either modest improvement or breakout years compared to last?

What is it with the hard-on for Sergio. It's almost like a god-damned cult.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

Reep said:


> How about another quiz? What two things do these teams all have in common:
> 
> 2006-07 San Antonio Spurs
> 2005-06 Miami Heat Dallas
> ...


I've often thought the same thing about our team. Derek Fisher never looked like a championship caliber point guard until he won a championship. 

to be fair, though, there are some big caveats to your list:

• Michael Jordan was the only thing keeping John Stockton and Gary Payton from championships.

• the Spurs, Rockets and Lakers each had the best big man in the league. you don't need a star point guard when you have that because the offense has a built-in structure.


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## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

I thought everyone wanted to keep sergio just so Rudy would have a freind on the team when he comes overseas?


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Reep said:


> How about another quiz? What two things do these teams all have in common:
> 
> 2006-07 San Antonio Spurs
> 2005-06 Miami Heat Dallas
> ...


Whether the player dominating the ball and piling up assists was a point guard or a point forward, it's the same thing and they all had one.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Reep said:


> How about another quiz? What two things do these teams all have in common:
> 
> 2006-07 San Antonio Spurs
> 2005-06 Miami Heat Dallas
> ...



They also all have PG's that don't make stupid mistakes throughout the game costing their team victories.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

MARIS61 said:


> Whether the player dominating the ball and piling up assists was a point guard or a point forward, it's the same thing and they all had one.


Did any of those teams have players that were in the top three in the league in assists? Top 5? No Bull in that era was ever top 5. The Lakers certainly didn't have anyone in the top 5 during that time. Neither did Houston. Parker only has about 5.5 asst/game. Billups and Avery Johnson both had single high years, but neither of those years lead to a title.

The implication above was that a top five assist/game PG would be a good thing. I don't think that is true.

I'm willing to admit I'm wrong if you can show me a forward or any player on those teams who had high assists/game in a title year. But, show me, don't tell me.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Look at all the mediocre talent, lack of potential, and physical obscelence on our team open for attack, when we have by my count 7 guys (Miles, Raef, Jack, Blake, Frye, Jones, McBob) who will not be a signicant part of ANY title run by the Blazers?

These guys couldn't even get us into the playoffs. None of them improved substantially over last year. Do you expect any big improvement in their play in future years?

Sergio's spot is more than secure.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

To me if Koponen plays well in summer league you let Koponen and Sergio battle for that 3rd PG spot this season.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

mediocre man said:


> They also all have PG's that don't make stupid mistakes throughout the game costing their team victories.


Than why do you want to keep Sergio who has the worst turn-overs per minute on the team?

How can you bemoan mistakes and call for the one making the most per minute of those to have more minutes at the same time? 

The mind boggles...


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

Many here think McMillen slows the team down, but I think it's the players. McMillen is constantly trying to get them to play with energy and push the ball up the court, but Blake and Roy are not comfortable with that, they both prefer the half court game. Our problem is, Sergio is the only guard we have, that is capable of running the fast break.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

andalusian said:


> Than why do you want to keep Sergio who has the worst turn-overs per minute on the team?
> 
> How can you bemoan mistakes and call for the one making the most per minute of those to have more minutes at the same time?
> 
> The mind boggles...




Sergio's mistakes come from trying to make plays. Jack's come from making stupid mistakes. 


Sergio's assist to TO and Steals to TO are both better than Jacks.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

mediocre man said:


> Sergio's mistakes come from trying to make plays. Jack's come from making stupid mistakes.
> 
> 
> Sergio's assist to TO and Steals to TO are both better than Jacks.


The difference between helping and hurting right there.

When Sergio gets real PT this arguement will be funny to look back on. I wonder who will be coach then?


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## axs31 (Jul 5, 2006)

mediocre man said:


> Sergio's mistakes come from trying to make plays. Jack's come from making stupid mistakes.
> 
> 
> Sergio's assist to TO and Steals to TO are both better than Jacks.


Exactly what I was going to say.. this feat is quite incredible given how much Sergio regressed statistically from last year (due to lack of PT and shattered confidence): PER of 14 last year, 8 this year, with his TS% down from 49% to 41%.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

mediocre man said:


> They also all have PG's that don't make stupid mistakes throughout the game costing their team victories.


i know you are just trying to make a veiled criticism, but your point does have some validity in the big picture. many of the point guards on these championship teams were good enough to NOT lose it for you. they didn't make the brilliant pass, but they could competently make the good pass every single time. 

i really do wonder if Steve Blake is a championship-caliber PG along those lines. it sounds ridiculous, but nobody thought Derek Fisher was in one until he had a ring. (actually, it was the second ring that finally convinced me.) 

you want somebody with a very high assist/turnover ratio. Blake is 6th in the league at 3.62. 

you want somebody who can hit open three pointers. Blake is doing that this year at a VERY good .411.

you want someone with decent size. Blake is 6'3. 

you want somebody who is game to defend anyone, especially the very best PG's we're likely to see in the years to come. for that, let's look at the two best young PG's in the league. 

we've played both Williams and Paul 4 games a piece, so there's a decent sample size. how have they done against us? 

*Chris Paul:*
This season:
21 ppg
11.6 a
.485 fg

Against Portland:
16.5 ppg
9 a
.482

Difference:
-4.5 ppg
-2.6 a
-.003

*
Deron Williams:*
This season:
19 ppg
10.6 a
.509 fg

Against Portland:
15.8 ppg
8.5 a
.463 fg

Difference:
-3.2 ppg
-2.1 a
-.046

obviously, this isn't just Steve Blake guarding them. but we all know who gets the starting assignment and the lion's share of the minutes against these two. 

after doing this research, and just going down memory lane on past championship teams, I think we can quite happily live with quiet competence at PG. 

assuming Fernandez is as good as we all hope, and Oden comes back to health, I think after next season we could be looking at a championship-contending starting lineup of Blake, Fernandez, Roy, Aldridge and Oden.


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## B-Roy (Feb 12, 2008)

mook said:


> i know you are just trying to make a veiled criticism, but your point does have some validity in the big picture. many of the point guards on these championship teams were good enough to NOT lose it for you. they didn't make the brilliant pass, but they could competently make the good pass every single time.
> 
> i really do wonder if Steve Blake is a championship-caliber PG along those lines. it sounds ridiculous, but nobody thought Derek Fisher was in one until he had a ring. (actually, it was the second ring that finally convinced me.)
> 
> ...


Whose playing the SF? 

I highly doubt Rudy would be starting.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

B-Roy said:


> Whose playing the SF?
> 
> I highly doubt Rudy would be starting.



Roy.

Same concept as starting Blake/Jack/Roy

That lineup would produce well in some ways (solid 3-pt shooting). I'm a little concerned about what happens when we play a team with a long SF. But, really there aren't too many of those.

I think Mook's post is right on with some nice stats. Blake may not be the perfect point guard for this team, but you could argue he is better than Paxon, Hodges, Kerr or any of the other pseudo-PGs that have rings on their fingers. He needs to get a little more aggressive about taking his shot. I see him pass up a bunch that he should just take.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

to me, this is a predicament.

Because while I believe he is definitely worth a roster spot, I kind of want what is best for the guy, since he isn't contributing to us.

But at the same time, if one of our PGs go down, he will be a good backup PG, and also with Rudy coming over, it will help Rudy's transition.

But there are teams that probably really value Sergio, and where he can get a lot of minutes, instead of rotting at the end of our bench.

I'd personally want to keep him for sure.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> i know you are just trying to make a veiled criticism, but your point does have some validity in the big picture. many of the point guards on these championship teams were good enough to NOT lose it for you. they didn't make the brilliant pass, but they could competently make the good pass every single time.
> 
> i really do wonder if Steve Blake is a championship-caliber PG along those lines. it sounds ridiculous, but nobody thought Derek Fisher was in one until he had a ring. (actually, it was the second ring that finally convinced me.)
> 
> ...


Great post. And yea, i've wanted to see Rudy and Roy in the same line-up. It will depend how they work together. Rudy might only be effective with the balla nd a lot of shots, so that won't work in the starting lineup with Roy, Aldridge and Oden. And we have to think about defense also.

But I hope Nate at least tries this to see. I think it might be our most potent lineup. I think a PG like Westbrook would be awesome for a Westbrook, Rudy and Roy line-up. He can get us fast break points, and play the PG, but be the lock-down defender we need on the perimeter. And he is long and athletic and fast enough to stick with Paul and Parker.

The more i think about it, the more i wonder if it would be worth giving so much up to pursue Rose. He needs the ball also, to be effective, and isn't that good off the ball, as he isn't that great of a shooter. So a Rose, Rudy, Roy lineup might not work that well.. IDK. I just wonder about these things. Not how good the player is (Because IMO Rose is the best player in the draft) but how good he is and how well he fits in a position we need for our future.

Repped.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

mediocre man said:


> Sergio's mistakes come from trying to make plays. Jack's come from making stupid mistakes.
> 
> 
> Sergio's assist to TO and Steals to TO are both better than Jacks.


So what? Jack's TS%, FG%, 3PT% and rebounding are better than Sergio's - his PER is better and his defense is better.

Sergio is playing PG, Jack is playing mostly SG this year, Sergio's Assists should be better than Jack's.

At the end of the day - you choose to use one set of standards for Sergio and another for Jack - but if you look at them objectively, Sergio has not earned minutes ahead of Jack - so claiming he needs more minutes because we need to make less mistakes is hypocritical at best.

Sergio playing matador defense is a mistake, Sergio shooting the ball is a mistake - but you choose to ignore it because one set of parameters shows him as better and it supports your argument. This is a classic case of creating a question that matches the results of the experiment...

I will repeat what I have been saying - this team needs an upgrade at PG - and I do not care where it comes from - but to claim that subbing Sergio for Jack's minutes is the answer - is not even close to reality, especially when you consider that Jack plays a lot of his minutes at SG - a place where Sergio is definitely not the answer. 

Is Sergio better than Blake at the point? No.
Is Sergio better than Roy at the point? No.
Is Sergio better playing SG next to Roy? No.
Is Sergio better playing SG next to Blake? No.

Why, pray tell, do we need to see more Sergio? It is time to accept that until Sergio can shoot somewhat efficiently, take it to the rim and finish and guard someone better than a Greg Oden bobble-head doll can - he is not going to pan out as an NBA player.


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## gogreen (May 24, 2006)

Ok, i will pray for this till draft day but i really agree that a Blake/ Westbrook combo would be perfect. I think Blake's numbers speak for themselves. The only thing he can't do is be a lockdown defender. In the west, we better have someone who can defend the great PG's that are out there. This team doesn't need a Calderon, he is not that much better than Blake. I saw Westbrook live and he completely disrupted Oregon's offense. He is a combo guard, he could play with Rudy, Roy or Blake. He also would be perfect in a 3 guard lineup because he would pressure the ball full court so the offense would have trouble setting up. Therefore having Rudy and Roy playing together would be insane.

I think the problem KP has is who he will use to thin the roster ? 

Westy/ Blake
Roy/ Rudy
Webs/ Roy/ TLaw
LMA/ Frye/ Tlaw
Oden/ Pryz

That would be a solid 10 man rotation. Sergio and Jones to fill out 11 and 12 on the roster and we are set. The rebuilding is OVER !! The key is to get someone who can play perimeter D. I would never do it, but Artest would seal the deal on future rings. Look what he has done to BRoy this year ( Even when he's on the bench ).


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

Yea gogreen, but i think Blake would definitely start for next year, and maybe the next one. Until Westbrook knows our offense well and gets used to the NBA game and his teammates.

Man, but we would really miss Jack, imo. His game is needed. A foul shooter, a tough vocal leader and someone who goes inside and gets fouled and sometimes makes a basket. He does turn it over, but i think that if/when he is gone, we are going to really miss him.

Just like how I think if we traded Outlaw, it wouldn't take long to realize that a huge part of our team (even if he is a bench player) is missing.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

Reep said:


> He needs to get a little more aggressive about taking his shot. I see him pass up a bunch that he should just take.


i've thought that more than once too. but what a sweet relief it is to have that kind of a problem after 8 interminable years of Damon Stoudamire (and his clones Nick Van Exel and Sebastian Telfair).

come to think of it, Damon Stoudamire is EXACTLY the kind of problem I'd like to avoid with a guy like Steve Blake. he's the anti-Damon. no ego, solid defense, not going to win a lot of games but also not going to dribble and shoot you out of them, never a defensive mismatch, good size. the ONLY thing I prefer about Damon's game was that he could hit free throws better, and although he was stupid he was also fearless at taking shots when everybody else seized up. (of course, he often missed them.) 

ever hear of "grenade boy"? he's the fearless guy who distracts the ugly girl at the bar (taking the grenade) so that you can hit on her cute friend. in the NBA they're called "role players," but sometimes I don't think that term does justice. 

maybe Steve Blake is our NBA championship grenade boy.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

B-Roy said:


> Whose playing the SF?
> 
> I highly doubt Rudy would be starting.


I assume you mean, "who is guarding the other team's SF on defense," because it's pretty obvious to me Roy and Rudy would have no problem scoring against a SF. 

now let me ask you: who was the Spurs' small forward during their first twin towers championship? I had to look it up. Sean Elliot and Mario Elie. neither guy was over 210 pounds dripping wet. Elliot was taller (6'8) than Roy (6'5), but Roy is already stronger. 

as quick and big as Aldridge and Oden are, I really don't think Roy is going to get beaten in the post much by bigger SF's. our towers will double and then recover quickly. 

so we'll mostly be vulnerable to guys like Lewis, Durant, Prince and Peja shooting over him. but then those guys have to guard Roy on the other end, which won't be easy. 

the biggest problem with my lineup is Kobe Bryant. but covering him is a nightmare for most teams, and probably will be with whatever stopgap we get. in our last matchup Roy and Outlaw tag-teamed on him, and it was pretty effective most of the night.


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## axs31 (Jul 5, 2006)

andalusian said:


> So what? Jack's TS%, FG%, 3PT% and rebounding are better than Sergio's - his PER is better and his defense is better.
> 
> Sergio is playing PG, Jack is playing mostly SG this year, Sergio's Assists should be better than Jack's.
> 
> ...


well, sergio was better last year PER-wise than jack THIS YEAR, who is supposed to be making strides, but also has a lower PER than last year. i hope to think this year is clearly the fluke season for sergio, and cant be a basis for evaluating his future. bottom line, he got no chance this year, because blake did surprisingly well and jack is nate's little pet project


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## gogreen (May 24, 2006)

Jack is Nate's guy and Sergio is KP's guy. If Jack could play like he did against Dallas, then fine. He is a good foul shooter, play decent D. Problem is he doesn't do anything really well. I think the one thing Blake does well is that he is consistent. Might not be flashy but gets it done. I think also next year we have to look at who can deliver the ball into Oden/ LMA. If either is posting up, Jack/ Blake have to be able to get them the ball down low. This is something Damon couldn't do and it drove me CRAZY !! It helps to have a tall PG. This does not work in Sergio's favor. 

I think Sergio stays just for the fact that we need him to be a ambassador for Rudy. Who knows, maybe Rudy/ Sergio can play effective minutes. I think Rudy will realize during the Olympics that Sergio has a way to go. I think Sergio needs to go to a team that wants to play up-tempo. Since Sergio is a KP guy it should be interesting to see what happens. I think Jack is gone no matter what.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

axs31 said:


> well, sergio was better last year PER-wise than jack THIS YEAR, who is supposed to be making strides, but also has a lower PER than last year. i hope to think this year is clearly the fluke season for sergio, and cant be a basis for evaluating his future. bottom line, he got no chance this year, because blake did surprisingly well and jack is nate's little pet project


Jack's PER last year was higher than Sergio's PER last year... If anyone has a reason for a PER drop this year it is for Jack - as he is playing a different position.

Sorry, the numbers still clearly prove what the unbiased eye can see. Sergio is not ready (and this a positive thought, because we can easily say that it is not sure he ever will be).


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

The question should be about how hard Sergio is working on his game. People want to blame Nate for breaking his spirit or whatever, but if he is any kind of winner and keeper, then he will take it as a challenge to get better instead of pouting. So which one is he doing? Is he destroying the weight room, shooting hundreds of times to build up his shot and taking in lessons from the assistant coaches whenever he can? Or is he floating through the year?

Winners work hard on their game and try to prove themselves in practice and in the 4 minutes per game they get. Losers blame others for their problems and don't improve. Right now, it looks like Sergio has regressed rather than gotten better. If he is a practice monster who for some reason just can't ever get going in 4 mintues per game, then we should keep him, because we can believe he will eventually bust out. If he is a guy who can't get motivated to work on his game unless we feed him more PT, then he probably doesn't have enough internal motivation to ever be very good anyway, and we should look to replace him with someone who does.


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## ChadWick (Jun 26, 2006)

I thought Sergio did great the first half of the season, and then Nate stopped playing him and he just hasn't done real good lately...


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

nicely put, dg. 

I used to be among Sergio's biggest fans, but I just can't get that excited about him anymore. you hear a lot about the work ethic of Aldridge, Oden and Roy. you can see the results from all the work Outlaw has put in all the years. 

but you just don't ever hear about how much time Sergio has spent with shooting or defense coaches.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

A/TO isn't that great a metric when you are comparing different types of players. Sergio is definitely a passer, and Jack's more of a scorer. If you try to make something happen, by scoring or passing, you are liable to turn the ball over. Jack's A/TO is not far off from guys with similar roles like Monta Ellis and Leandro Barbosa, and is better than Manu Ginobili's. Scorers sometimes turn the ball over.


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## B-Roy (Feb 12, 2008)

mook said:


> nicely put, dg.
> 
> I used to be among Sergio's biggest fans, but I just can't get that excited about him anymore. you hear a lot about the work ethic of Aldridge, Oden and Roy. you can see the results from all the work Outlaw has put in all the years.
> 
> but you just don't ever hear about how much time Sergio has spent with shooting or defense coaches.


I remember reading somewhere about Sergio working out a lot.

With that said, I think Sergio is probably worth a roster spot........on another team.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

mook said:


> nicely put, dg.
> 
> I used to be among Sergio's biggest fans, but I just can't get that excited about him anymore. you hear a lot about the work ethic of Aldridge, Oden and Roy. you can see the results from all the work Outlaw has put in all the years.
> 
> but you just don't ever hear about how much time Sergio has spent with shooting or defense coaches.


I liked Sergio too, and was expecting to see more from him this year. Last year he looked great, at first. Teams started sagging off him on D, basically daring him to shoot, and that seemed to slow him down quite a bit. But we also heard he had a bad ankle sprain that wasn't healing well, so I was more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I thought that if he spent the summer working on his long ball, working on his English and just generally working on his game, he could be a valuable contributor for us this year. Unfortunately, we haven't seen or heard anything to show that he has done those things. No news reports, and definitely not on the court. The only sign we have at all that he has any real promise is from over a year ago.

If a guy works on his game, eventually it will show up, one way or another. If he doesn't, that will show up too.


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

dudleysghost said:


> If a guy works on his game, eventually it will show up, one way or another. If he doesn't, that will show up too.


Agreed. Frye ended up in Nate's dog house this year too. Ya think he is there now? I don't. Frye clearly has worked to develop toughness and more of an inside presence. 

The earlier comment about the Olympics is true. If Sergio has been held back, that will be his chance. I'm thinking he only sees garbage minutes because he still won't be able to penetrate against the good teams and his shot just doesn't counter that.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Reep said:


> Agreed. Frye ended up in Nate's dog house this year too. Ya think he is there now? I don't. Frye clearly has worked to develop toughness and more of an inside presence.
> 
> The earlier comment about the Olympics is true. If Sergio has been held back, that will be his chance. I'm thinking he only sees garbage minutes because he still won't be able to penetrate against the good teams and his shot just doesn't counter that.


Frye is a great example. I think there were two times this season where Nate basically called him out and said he had to improve or he wouldn't get time, and both times Frye seemed to respond positively. Sergio needs to make some lemonade. I don't know about the Olympics though, because he will be competing for time with some other pretty good guards (Calderon, Navarro and Fernandez, those are just the ones I know of), but if he can step it up there, that would be a very positive indicator.


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## ChadWick (Jun 26, 2006)

dudleysghost said:


> A/TO isn't that great a metric when you are comparing different types of players. Sergio is definitely a passer, and Jack's more of a scorer. If you try to make something happen, by scoring or passing, you are liable to turn the ball over. Jack's A/TO is not far off from guys with similar roles like Monta Ellis and Leandro Barbosa, and is better than Manu Ginobili's. Scorers sometimes turn the ball over.


I see your point, but Jack turns it over all the time, not just sometimes...I've never seen him run a fast break w/o it ending up in a turnover or not scoring. The only thing I like about him is how he attacks the rim and draws fouls while doing so.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

ChadWick said:


> I see your point, but Jack turns it over all the time, not just sometimes...I've never seen him run a fast break w/o it ending up in a turnover or not scoring. The only thing I like about him is how he attacks the rim and draws fouls while doing so.


No doubt, Jack is a turnover machine and has many other flaws as well. I was just trying to point out that A/TO for scoring combo guards tends to be low, so it just isn't valid to use that as your one metric for comparing players. Otherwise we could go around saying that Travis Deiner is better than Monta Ellis, or that Steve Nash is only the 16th best PG in the league.

Maybe next year, Rudy Fernandez will come over and knock our socks off, becoming the scoring combo guard of our dreams, but I'm willing to bet that he won't post an A/TO > 2.5.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

I think with the development we have seen in players in their 3rd and 4th years with this team, and considering some of those players didn't look NBA worthy their second year in the league, I believe Sergio deserves the benefit of the doubt.


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## Jayps15 (Jul 21, 2007)

I don't think his international commitments will get in the way of his offseason development for much longer. He was already in the dog house with the spanish national team coach, playing something like 3 minutes per game, and soon enough they'll be able to put Ricky Rubio on the senior team. He probably won't be on the squad for a few years until some of their older guards stop playing and open up another spot for him.


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