# Looks like Kobe may not want to play vs Magic



## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

Sadly, he hurt his finger when moving boxes in his garage..

oh well.. I hope he plays though. Hope it was just minor cuts that will heal up by 8 days

If he does play though, I gaurantee you that McGrady is going to go all Jordan on him by stepping his game up to the next level like he does vs. Lebron now days


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

Hopefully, the Magic will win, like last year when the Lakers visited and both Kobe and TMac had 38 points.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

I might try and get tickets to that game, but a lot of the guys to see wont even be in there.


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> I might try and get tickets to that game, but a lot of the guys to see wont even be in there.


Why won't they be there?

I think it'll be sold out so hurry up and buy tix now

I most likely will be going to game as well..... Courtside

Well maybe not courtside but still


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

They are injured last time I checked.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

*baiting?*



> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> Sadly, he hurt his finger when moving boxes in his garage..
> 
> oh well.. I hope he plays though. Hope it was just minor cuts that will heal up by 8 days
> ...


HAHAHAHAHA, :laugh:


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> 
> 
> Why won't they be there?
> ...


Well, it is on ABC so I think i'd rather watch it on TV. I dont really wanna go to the game unless I can get really really good seats. Otherwise i'd just rather watch it on TV.


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: baiting?*



> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> HAHAHAHAHA, :laugh:


Baiting? Yes, yes you are.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Re: baiting?*



> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> 
> 
> Baiting? Yes, yes you are.


nah dude, I agree. If I was Kobe and I had to play against Tmac, Tracy McGrady, the best player in the NBA, I'd prolly cut my hand off to avoid him.

:uhoh:

Now that would be baiting........

My response was ginuine. I think it's funny that Tmac fans implies(or baits Kobe fan) Kobe would purposely avoid playing against him. Get real!


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

See, now you just had to come with the unescessary sarcasm. T-Mac isn't the best player in the NBA..... just the best gaurd in the NBA. Undisputed best gaurd that is.

And nobody said anything about Kobe trying to avoid playing T-Mac. But since you asked so nicely, if I were Kobe I'd do more than cut off my hand to avoid getting humiliated by someone else. I mean, doesn't Kobe humiliate himself enough?


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> I mean, doesn't Kobe humiliate himself enough?


T-slack has had some humiliation problems of his own.

Talks trash to Hornets. Loses the series
Talks trash to Pistons. Loses the series
Has a C on his jersey for captain, but blames his teammates for everything.
Starts out the season 1-19, and is not going to make the playoffs.

When's the last time the "undisputed" best guard in the league couldn't lead his team to the playoffs?


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> See, now you just had to come with the unescessary sarcasm. T-Mac isn't the best player in the NBA..... just the best gaurd in the NBA. Undisputed best gaurd that is.
> 
> And nobody said anything about Kobe trying to avoid playing T-Mac. But since you asked so nicely, if I were Kobe I'd do more than cut off my hand to avoid getting humiliated by someone else. I mean, doesn't Kobe humiliate himself enough?


Sarcasm is always fun isn't.

Like this for example, why would any player, I mean any player or any team in the NBA want to avoid playing against the worst team in the NBA? Answer that question honestly!

Now was that sarcasm or the truth?
__________________________________________

Or check this one out, I'll be the Tmac hater(for a change right, :laugh: ).

Sadly, he(Tmac) hurt his back doing god knows what.

oh well.. I hope he plays though. Hope it was just minor back injury that will heal up by Sunday.

If he does play though, I gaurantee you that Shaq is going to go all Jordan on him by stepping his game up to the next level like he did vs. Lebron Wednesday.

thanks courtside.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Wilt_The_Stilt</b>!
> 
> 
> T-slack has had some humiliation problems of his own.
> ...


Right on Wilt. :clap:


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Wilt_The_Stilt</b>!
> 
> 
> T-slack has had some humiliation problems of his own.
> ...



T-Mac's quotes against the Pistons were taken out of context, and were NOT trash talking comments. Other than that, I sadly have to agree with you.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Wilt_The_Stilt</b>!
> 
> 
> T-slack has had some humiliation problems of his own.
> ...


Name one other superstar in the league that has a worse supporting cast or has in the last three years and has done better. You can't. 

Tmac says some stupid things every once in awhile, but that doesnt take away from what he does on the court. And even though Orlando lost those playoff series, Tmac's stats were fantastic.


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> If he does play though, I gaurantee you that Shaq is going to go all Jordan on him by stepping his game up to the next level like he did vs. Lebron Wednesday.
> 
> thanks courtside.


Shaq can't go jordan. Shaq can only go Shaq...

Plus, shaq isn't playing all that jordanesque anyways..


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> 
> 
> Shaq can't go jordan. Shaq can only go Shaq...
> ...


Sure he can. I wouldn't doubt Shaq's ability to step his game up to the next level. But it's true he hasn't been playing at a high level lately, but we all know it can happen in any game.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> Name one other superstar in the league that has a worse supporting cast or has in the last three years and has done better. You can't.


I don't think the supporting cast is the problem.
Tmac's first season they were 7th in the East which was an improvement. They lost to the Bucks, when Ray Allen banged on Tracy in the clutch, remember! The team was in good position to win that series but they didn't have a player to step up and make big plays down the stretch. You need that player to win!
Then they finished 4th in the East losing to the Hornets after Baron Davis, Tracy's man, dropped back to back triple doubles and a killer pluck on Tmac in the clutch! Again, the Magic didn't have a player to make the tough plays down the stretch. You need that player to win! Then they lost to Detriot last year after being up 3 games to 1. The teams performance was terrible in the final 3 games of that series. Tracys FG% was awful as well.
Aside from this, Orlando has let go of the few players it had that could really play: Darrell Armstrong, Troy Hudson, Mike Miller, & Bo Outlaw amongst others. It's more than just the supporting cast in Orlando. To me, Magics fans used the support as a scapegoat!



> Tmac says some stupid things every once in awhile, but that doesnt take away from what he does on the court. And even though Orlando lost those playoff series, Tmac's stats were fantastic.


Tmacs stats are superb. He's a great talent, but the difference between him and other great talents is the great players get the job done. For example, if Philly had the worst record in the league how easy would it be to say Allen Iverson has a terrible supporting cast? It's not hard to say that now, because his support is not good at all, but he still find ways to lead his teammates and find wins. That's the difference between great players and great talents. Another guy who gets no credit as a great player, Paul Pierce.... Is there any doubt that the Boston Celtics minus Pierce are worse off than the Magic minus Tracy? It's close, but Pierce has the ability to win games and that's why the Celtics are in playoffs contention. Great players vs great talents.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> Name one other superstar in the league that has a worse supporting cast or has in the last three years and has done better. You can't.


Iverson. 

*2000-2001 76ers*
Buford, Rodney 
Geiger, Matt 
Hill, Tyrone 
Iverson, Allen 
Jones, Jumaine 
Lynch, George 
Macculloch, Todd 
Mckie, Aaron
Mutombo, Dikembe 
Ollie, Kevin 
Snow, Eric 
Raja Bell

*Record: 56-26*

--Buford was bad, Geiger was ok at best. Hill was fading fast, Jones was in his first or second season and did nothing. Lynch was decent, but always injured, Macculloch hadn't become a starter yet, Mckie was good, Mutumbo was good, Ollie and Bell were both ok role players. Snow was solid. That team might have been a little better, but they did so much more than the Magic in a stronger conference.


Vince?

*2000-2001 Raptors*
Carter, Vince 
Childs, Chris 
Clark, Keon 
Corbin, Tyrone
Curry, Dell 
Davis, Antonio 
Jackson, Mark 
Murray, Tracy 
N'diaye, M. 
Oakley, Charles 
Peterson, Morris 
Stewart, Michael 
Williams, Alvin 
Williamson, Corliss 

*Record: 47-35*

--Childs was nothing, Clark was good, Curry was bad, Corbin was worse. Davis was good, Jackson was ok at best, Murray was nothing. N'diaye was nothing. Oakley was on his last fumes, Peterson was ok, Stewart is terrible, Williams and Williamson were both decent.

And if you want more you can look at the Heat teams from the past few years.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Wilt_The_Stilt</b>!
> 
> 
> Iverson.
> ...


Not even close. That was a very good team, mainly in the area where Orlando has been the worst the last few years, defense and rebounding. That team had two legit centers. Iverson continues to have McKie and Snow around him, whose effect on the court is much greater than their numbers. And look at all the defensive minded role players on that team. Defense wins basketball games, and Orlando hasn't had a good defensive or rebounding presence since they got rid of Ben Wallace.




> Vince?
> 
> *2000-2001 Raptors*
> Carter, Vince
> ...


This team is a little closer than that Philly team, but still much better. Again, mostly in its defensive abilities. And a lot of solid veterans on the team. Nowhere near the inexperience that the Orlando has had.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> I don't think the supporting cast is the problem.
> Tmac's first season they were 7th in the East which was an improvement. They lost to the Bucks, when Ray Allen banged on Tracy in the clutch, remember! The team was in good position to win that series but they didn't have a player to step up and make big plays down the stretch. You need that player to win!
> ...


Of course you think we use the support as a scapegoat, because you are Laker fan that likes to dig on Tmac and Orlando fans. Duh.



> Tmacs stats are superb. He's a great talent, but the difference between him and other great talents is the great players get the job done. For example, if Philly had the worst record in the league how easy would it be to say Allen Iverson has a terrible supporting cast? It's not hard to say that now, because his support is not good at all, but he still find ways to lead his teammates and find wins. That's the difference between great players and great talents. Another guy who gets no credit as a great player, Paul Pierce.... Is there any doubt that the Boston Celtics minus Pierce are worse off than the Magic minus Tracy? It's close, but Pierce has the ability to win games and that's why the Celtics are in playoffs contention. Great players vs great talents.


You think Iverson would make Orlando better? Gimme a break. They wouldnt be any better. And if i'm not mistaken, Boston has gotten worse as the season has gone on ... just so happens to coincides with losing Antoine Walker and then losing Vin Baker who was playing great.

We can argue this all day ... I just hope at some point Tmac gets a real supporting cast. And someday doesnt have to play on a team that is at a 13 million dollar disadvantage to everyone else.


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

Iverson would call out all the players everynight saying they have no heart..and what would the players do... nothing..they'll continue losing all the rebounds.. i bet iverson can outrebound howard and gooden combined if he wanted to... jeez

thats how bad we sux at rebounding..


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## The MAgiC (Aug 3, 2003)

> I don't think the supporting cast is the problem.


You are so rediculous that it's scary. Do us a favor and find your way back to the Lakers board. There, instead of worrying about the Magic, you can talk about Kobe [strike]pissing himself[/strike] and getting on a plane straight for Orlando instead of Philly where his team was playing. Of course, if he thinks he's not gonna hear it from us as well he's dead wrong. I hope I hear as much taunting as possible.

[not really an appropriate statement - J]


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> Of course you think we use the support as a scapegoat, because you are Laker fan that likes to dig on Tmac and Orlando fans. Duh.


You can do better than this. I mean, seriously.



> You think Iverson would make Orlando better? Gimme a break. They wouldnt be any better.


The point is not Allen Iverson can make Orlando better, it's Allen Iverson has his team in the playoffs ever year and his supporting cast is not a very good one. When you constantly blame everyone on the team other than it's key guy, your not looking for a solution to the problem, you're dwelling on the negative. Every year a key player from Orlandos bench is traded or released and the team that player ends up on, becomes a much better team. (Mike Miller, Troy Hudson, Bo Outlaw, Darrell Armstrong). How good would Orlando be if these guys were never traded? You'd have you're rebounding in Bo & Mike, you'd have another scorer in Troy, and Mike. Good D with Armstrong and tougness with Bo. Maybe the people trading away all the good bench players are the reason for Orlando's struggles.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> 
> 
> You are so rediculous that it's scary. Do us a favor and find your way back to the Lakers board. There, instead of worrying about the Magic, you can talk about Kobe [strike]pissing himself[/strike] and getting on a plane straight for Orlando instead of Philly where his team was playing. Of course, if he thinks he's not gonna hear it from us as well he's dead wrong. I hope I hear as much taunting as possible.
> ...


You mean to tell me, I'm not welcome here? :jawdrop:

:grinning:


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> The point is not Allen Iverson can make Orlando better, it's Allen Iverson has his team in the playoffs ever year and his supporting cast is not a very good one. When you constantly blame everyone on the team other than it's key guy, your not looking for a solution to the problem, you're dwelling on the negative. Every year a key player from Orlandos bench is traded or released and the team that player ends up on, becomes a much better team. (Mike Miller, Troy Hudson, Bo Outlaw, Darrell Armstrong). How good would Orlando be if these guys were never traded? You'd have you're rebounding in Bo & Mike, you'd have another scorer in Troy, and Mike. Good D with Armstrong and tougness with Bo. Maybe the people trading away all the good bench players are the reason for Orlando's struggles.


Please remind, when was the last time the Magic didn't make the playoffs since T-Mac came aboard? Oh yeah, that's right, it hasn't happened. Iverson and the 76ers don't look like they're going to be in the playoffs this year, much like the Magic. T-Mac has his team in the playoffs every year too, just not this year, and neither does Iverson. I don't see what point you're trying to make.


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

It would be sad if Ivy didnt make playoffs and no major team improvements.. He would be like how McGrady is this season just w/ less of a losing record than 03-04 magic..

Except Tmac would get #1-3 pick...


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> You can do better than this. I mean, seriously.
> ...


You just made my point, thank you. What happens when you trade away good players and get very little in return? Your supporting cast around the superstar gets weaker and weaker. And maybe those guys did go to other teams that became much better teams, but they were already good teams. Hudson goes to Minnesota, already a very good team. Outlaw goes to Phoenix, a good team at the time. Miller goes to Memphis, a very good up and coming team (and not putting up very good numbers mind you). Darrell goes to New Orleans, already one of the best in the East. Good teams that add good role players like these guys will become better, it isnt rocket science.

And regardless of what Iverson has done with his teams, yeah they were decently successful, but they were all better than any supporting cast Tmac has had around him.

Obviously if Orlando had Darrell, Troy, Mike, and Bo they'd be better team. Although i'd rather have Darrell, Troy and Bo with Gooden and Giricek. Mike actually returned some value, the others were given up for nothing.

Letting Darrell and Troy go for nothing was an absolute mistake. Darrell's defense would really help the team (and leadership), and Troy was one of the only guys on the team besides Tmac who could get his own points.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rukahS capuT</b>!
> 
> 
> Please remind, when was the last time the Magic didn't make the playoffs since T-Mac came aboard? Oh yeah, that's right, it hasn't happened. Iverson and the 76ers don't look like they're going to be in the playoffs this year, much like the Magic. T-Mac has his team in the playoffs every year too, just not this year, and neither does Iverson. I don't see what point you're trying to make.


Philly is a game or two out of the playoffs race. And I'll go out on a limb and say they will make the playoffs behind Allen Iverson. If it doesn't happen, have fun throwing it in my face later.

The point was made that no other player can do as much with as little as Tmac. Well, Iverson can his teammate are equally as bad as Tracy's and they have a better record, not to mention the reason their record is so bad had everything to do with Iverson's absence.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> You just made my point, thank you. What happens when you trade away good players and get very little in return? Your supporting cast around the superstar gets weaker and weaker. And maybe those guys did go to other teams that became much better teams, but they were already good teams. Hudson goes to Minnesota, already a very good team. Outlaw goes to Phoenix, a good team at the time. Miller goes to Memphis, a very good up and coming team (and not putting up very good numbers mind you). Darrell goes to New Orleans, already one of the best in the East. Good teams that add good role players like these guys will become better, it isnt rocket science.


Than the problem would be the management that trades away the good supporting cast, keyword "good." The management is the problem the players aren't. It's the same ole tired excuse every year in Orlando, blaming everyone but your hero isn't going to change anything. 



> And regardless of what Iverson has done with his teams, yeah they were decently successful, but they were all better than any supporting cast Tmac has had around him.


That's not true now, and his still has a much better record. And they certainly wouldn't lose 19 games in a row.



> Obviously if Orlando had Darrell, Troy, Mike, and Bo they'd be better team. Although i'd rather have Darrell, Troy and Bo with Gooden and Giricek. Mike actually returned some value, the others were given up for nothing.


GM mistakes.



> Letting Darrell and Troy go for nothing was an absolute mistake. Darrell's defense would really help the team (and leadership), and Troy was one of the only guys on the team besides Tmac who could get his own points.


And who made those mistakes? The GM.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> Than the problem would be the management that trades away the good supporting cast, keyword "good." The management is the problem the players aren't. It's the same ole tired excuse every year in Orlando, blaming everyone but your hero isn't going to change anything.


So wait, you agree that management has made very bad decisions and weakened the team, yet it is still "our hero's" fault that the team sucks. Interesting argument.




> That's not true now, and his still has a much better record. And they certainly wouldn't lose 19 games in a row.


You think Philly's team, or Iverson's supporting cast actually, is on par with Orlando's? You are nuts. They've got a near All-Star caliber player in Glenn Robinson. They've still got McKie and Snow, who are both savvy veterans and very good defensive players. Dalembert is becoming a defensive force in the middle. If correct me if I am wrong, but AI isn't doing too much lately .. I believe they have lost 8 out of their last 10 ... You just want to hate on Tmac so badly.




> GM mistakes.


Agreed. Ofcourse, it is still Tmac's fault, right?



> And who made those mistakes? The GM.


Yep. Not Tmac.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> So wait, you agree that management has made very bad decisions and weakened the team, yet it is still "our hero's" fault that the team sucks. Interesting argument.
> ...


I see....

You changed the argument. What we were originally debating was whether the team's supporting cast was the problem or whether it was the GM? This has nothing to do with Tracy.

Glance back at all the successful teams over the past 5 years in the NBA. The bench is a key. You can't win without structuring it properly. You need good starters, but that bench is just as important. Look at the players the Magic have traded away and the one's they have now around Tmac. They have good players, its just not the right group of players they need to win. The structure is the problem. This is the GM's fault not the players themselves. Gooden and Howard are virtually the same type of player, why have both? Strickland is one of the best assist men in NBA history, can you argue that he is not a good player? What about Giricek and Bogans? Two good young wingplayers that have the potential be be great role players. The Magic's woes are the same thing I've watched for years in DC with Abe Polin. You've got a guy in charge who doesn't know how to build a winning team. This is not the teams fault. It's his fault. Take a look at all the now great players the Wizards used to have: Webber, Rasheed, Ben Wallace(Orlando dumped him too), etc, etc..... there are so many. I'm not saying the Magic's players will go elsewhere and have the same success these guys have, but they surely did not have any success with a GM who could build the team the way it should be built.



> You think Philly's team, or Iverson's supporting cast actually, is on par with Orlando's? You are nuts. They've got a near All-Star caliber player in Glenn Robinson. They've still got McKie and Snow, who are both savvy veterans and very good defensive players. Dalembert is becoming a defensive force in the middle. If correct me if I am wrong, but AI isn't doing too much lately .. I believe they have lost 8 out of their last 10 ... You just want to hate on Tmac so badly.


Glenn Robinson is no longer an allstar caliber player.
Check the numbers, they don't lie. His time in Atlanta the Hawks record without him was much better than with him, just as the 6ers record without Glenn is much better than with him. Overall both teams had a 60%+ winning percentage without Glenn, and a 35%- with him. It's funny how players can live off their reputation, instead of having to earn credibility. Glenn Robinson has not accomplished anything in his NBA career. And he has certainly been on a downhill spiral over the past 4 years.

And BTW, I'm not hating on Tmac, I'm hating on the GM.
I swear Tmac fans are so sensitive. Sensitive thugs yall all need hugs.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> I see....
> 
> ...


Well, I agree for the most part. I think the biggest problem with Orlando is everyone expected too much out of the guys they got. Tyronne Lue is playing about as good as he can, but is equal to a 2nd or 3rd string point, but they expected him to be a starter. He is a set shooting PG that doesnt do much else, although his defense because of his defense against AI was WAY overrated. Howard started the season very poorly, which is his fault, but he is doing now what he has always done ... a decent scoring PF who grabs some meaningless rebounds and doesnt play much D. I thought Howard would be able to handle playing C in the East, but I didnt realize how un-athletic he is. 

Either way, the team has not been put together well. Howard coming in has killed Gooden's game and forced him or Howard to play out of position. Their pick of Reece Gaines has been a major bust to this point. Bogans is a decent player, but shouldnt be a starting caliber player. Zaza has potential, but he is going to need a couple years and now he is starting. DeClerq does the best he can, which isnt much, but he is also forced to start even though he should be a 8th or 9th man. Strickland has done about as well as he can for his age. Britton Johnson starting the season at SF? Huh?

Two guys that have been big disappointments are Giricek and Hunter. No excuses for those guys. 

I dont fault the GM for Hill's signing, but it has killed this team. 

It is scary watching this team, because not only are they bad, the only guys that look like they will/could improve in the future are Tmac, Gooden, Zaza, and Bogans. And Bogans at best will be a decent starter, but nothing more.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

:yes:


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

To conclude this thread: Kobe did not play versus the Magic.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> To conclude this thread: Kobe did not play versus the Magic.


Wow, good call. You never cease to amaze.


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