# Good God!! The Bulls Will Make the PLAYOFFS!!!



## Kramer (Jul 5, 2002)

Last year playoffs were expected from our Bulls. This year nothing is expected. That is EXACTLY one of the reasons why the Bulls WILL make the playoffs this year.

*Last Year:*
Eddy:
Finished Previous season's final month averaging 20ppg, got cocky
Pager to the Eye; hindered workout efforts
Strained hamstring; hindered workout efforts
Who are we kidding? There were no workout efforts to hinder last year!
Predicted to be Most Improved Player... Got cocky, relaxed whatever so-called summer workouts he was doing.

Tyson:
Esophagitis was an excuse for Tyson to not workout or gain muscle.
Back injury cut-off Tyson's incredible start of the season
Matrix/Steve Austin-like, Slow-mo hitch in Tyson's shot appeared after injury

JWill:
Motorcycle meet inanimate object. bye Jwill.

PLAY-OFFS:
Bulls had expectations to be the most improved team in the league
Bulls finished previous season on high note playing well, expected to carry it over
Bulls got too cocky. Didn't work hard enough in summer.

*This Year*
Play-Offs:
Bulls were so bad last year, people expect them to be just as bad this year
Bulls didn't finish playing great. NO expectations for next year.
Bulls got their asses handed to them. They're out to prove something.

JWill:
He GONE! But, we got Gordon. He's almost JWill with a jumpshot. We've gained what we lost the previous year.

Tyson:
No Esophagitis
He's actually WORKING OUT? HUH?  
Back Injury is solved! :gopray: 
Octuple-hitch jumpshot has supposedly been resolved.

Eddy:
Didn't improve much last year. People think he has no heart.
His friends have vowed to keep pager kinetics to a minimum.
Hamstring injury is much less serious, and MUCH earlier in the summer.
Eddy is ACTUALLY working out this summer. At the BERTO no less!

Bottom line is THIS! You can look at the weight Tyson may have gained, or the Berto time Eddy is clocking as positives. But, this year is all about the intangibles. We all know sports is filled with intangibles. If a horrible NC team travels to Duke and beats a #1 ranked Duke team, there's almost no doubt that NC will be due for a let down in their next game. The Bulls will be under the opposite effect this year. Last year, all eyes were on them. Everyone expected big things from them. This year, noone thinks they will do ****. Noone thinks Eddy will become the next Shaq, Noone thinks the Bulls are the best up and coming team. Not to mention, there is no controversy this year; a la JWill's bike, Tyson's back, Eddy's pager, Erob's robbery, Fizer's gun-toting, Jalen's hijacking... They have NO pressure on them. If you consider that, coupled with the fact that they're out for vengeance after the EMBARRASSING season they just suffered, and it all adds up to a successful season for the Bulls. 

In my opinion, the tangibles point to the play-offs this year anyway. But, let's forget about the tangibles ****. All of the intangibles point to a BIG IMPROVEMENT this year, too. I don't think anyone can deny that. Everything the Bulls supposedly had working for them last year was actually working against them. This year it's different. This year it's Through Thick and Thin... 
:no: 
OK, the slogan sucks this year, but that's it. I think the playoffs can be expected, and I think that's actually kool-aid free.


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

You know I wouldn't be the first or the last to make excuses for the team last year, but....

There was just no team continuity last year and part of that fault fell onto the hands of Bill Cartwright who was a disaster as a head coach and I've said it since day 1 when he was hired. 

Another problem is that the Bulls signed old fogies who were injured all of the time. 

Bulls were hurt. Tyson, Eddy, JYD, Pippen, Gill, E-Rob...Was there a guy on this team that played a full 82 games? Seriously?


I just think with the ORGANIZATION changing its philosophy and approach that will prove to build a more successful environment for our athletes and all of that is due to the fantastic work of Scott Skiles and John Paxson. They came in with a philosophy and a plan and they are EXECUTING it and I think the majority of us have been more than satisfied with the results SO FAR. 

I just want to see all these guys playing together in preseason to gauge how much team chemistry they have. Hopefully with Andres Nocioni in the mix.


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## madox (Jan 6, 2004)

Yes, we cannot underestimate the significance or cruelty of the pager to Eddy's eye! We were set back a season. 

Lightning will not strike twice! Except E. Robinson will in certainty get another toe inflammation. 

But you are right, great expectations can hurt an young team like the Bulls. This year they have a lot to prove.


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

I don't care how bad we are, every year I'm going to predict we make the playoffs. This year is no different.


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## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>CiMa</b>!
> I don't care how bad we are, every year I'm going to predict we make the playoffs. This year is no different.



:yes:


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

You guys are setting yourself up for alot of disappointment

The Bulls are hugely improved in terms of talent. However, when was the last time you saw a team double its win total in a year to make the playoffs? Denver did it last year, but had Carmello Anthony and Andre Miller. It doesnt happen often. ANd that is what would nearly have to happen for the Bulls to make the playoffs. 

Basically, the Bulls will have 2 rookies in the top 6. 3 in the top 7 if you count Nocioni (who is still unsigned and is still a ROOKIE). The club might lose Jamal Crawford for not much. And players like Antonio Davis and Jerome Williams, not good players to start with, were already showing signs of slowing down.

If you look at the east its going to be tougher. The east closed the gap last year on the west. 

Detroit
Indiana
New York 
Miami
Milwaukee
New Jersey
Boston

These 7 teams, IMO, are all clearly better then the Bulls right now. If you look at the remaining teams Philly, Cleveland, Charlotte, Atlanta, Orlando, Washington I can only say for certain that the Bulls are better then Atlanta and Charlotte

So can they overtake a team like Philly? Unlikely if Iverson plays 75 games. Plus Philly added this guy by the name of Andre Igoudala

Can they overtake a team like Orlando? I dont think so. I always thought last year was a fluke. And this year, they might get Grant Hill back (he is telling people he is ready to go) and Pat Garrity (who I always thought was the glue). They added Howard in the draft to go with Steve Francis, Cuttino Mobley and Kelvin Cato. They already have Dwight Gooden there. Is there talent any worse then ours? I dont think so. If Hill plays in 50 games this year for them, it wont be close

Washington is sort of in the same boat as us. If Kwame Brown shows up, to go with Jarvis Hayes and some of their younger players they could be good. And they have a better player then us in a guy by the name of Gilbert Arenas.

I havent mentioned Cleveland at all. They lost Boozer, which was huge. But still, Lebron james people. Add to him Pavlovic and yes, Luke Jackson, and Zydrunas Ilgauskas and I think their base is still better, even after losing Boozer. If they get a 4 in FA, plus a full year out of Jeff McInnis and a career bounce out of Wagner, who has been very good in summer league, they too will be a better team.

So while I agree that the Bulls are headed in the right direction, lets not get our hopes too high. This team still lacks spacing, has an unproven coach and system, and we dont know how the pieces fit at all. Assuming Nocioni is a Bull on opening day, i see 34 wins. Which would be a nice plus 11 and a good base to build off of for 05/06. But it still finishes 10th in the east


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## bulls (Jan 1, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> You guys are setting yourself up for alot of disappointment
> 
> The Bulls are hugely improved in terms of talent. However, when was the last time you saw a team double its win total in a year to make the playoffs? Denver did it last year, but had Carmello Anthony and Andre Miller. It doesnt happen often. ANd that is what would nearly have to happen for the Bulls to make the playoffs.
> ...


i agree with you to a point,but are you saying that gordon or even deng,nocioni CANT have the same type of impact on the bulls that Carmello had on the nug's?these guys airt"wishfull thinkin players" like some of past drafts,they are stright up ballers no if ands or butts about it.

sure they are rook's but i dont see gordon or nocioni playing like rook's this year and ill even go so far as to say its not to far feched that gordon will be ROY.gordon has done nothing but surprise up to this point,i beleave it was about 2-3weeks b4 the draft he came on a show on espn and at that point he was a long shot for being drafted as high as 10th and i beleave he will do the same in the nba. "he's to short" "he cant do this or that" i think he will prove to the teams just what kind of player he is in stompin the crap out of them night in night out.


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## MJG (Jun 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> You guys are setting yourself up for alot of disappointment
> 
> The Bulls are hugely improved in terms of talent. However, when was the last time you saw a team double its win total in a year to make the playoffs? Denver did it last year, but had Carmello Anthony and Andre Miller. It doesnt happen often. ANd that is what would nearly have to happen for the Bulls to make the playoffs.
> ...


I'm with rlucas on this one in general. Though the east as a whole obviously isn't as good as the west as a whole, they're just about as deep. The Hawks and Bobcats are the only two teams who really don't think they're going to the playoffs next year at this point.

Is it impossible for the Bulls to make it? Of course not. The rookies could contribute big time, Curry could finally turn into that all-star center he was supposed to be this year, Hinrich could improve on his already excellent rookie campaign, and so on. It's just that there's about nine other teams competing for spots 4-8, and the Bulls will have their work cut out for them getting one of those spots. You guys can make the playoffs, but it'll take a lot of improvement to do so.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

psssst Kramer how's the *hangover* this morning?


:grinning:   :laugh:


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

If the team stays healthy, improvement is just going to happen. 

When you got two bigs like Chandler and Curry its just going to happen. If they improve upon last year and Curry is in shape and more consistently, then the sky is the limit. 

Even YOU, rlucas, know that. 

It's not about who we are better than, its who we should be better than. 

Some of the teams in the East last year were not so clear cut above us last year IMO. 

Are Philly, Boston, Cleveland (yes even with Lebron), Washington, New Jersey (without K-Mart), New York, and Toronto that much ahead of the Bulls?

Seriously?

I don't agree at all. What was the difference maker last year was we weren't successful at holding leads against this team. You're going to tell me that this year we won't be able to hold leads with our additions? 

My locked teams are (INPO):
1) Indiana
2) Detroit
3) Miami
4) Milwaukee

The rest are up for grabs people. No other team in the East is that much better than the Bulls rlucas. Not even New Jersey or Boston. 

I'm not going to say playoffs as something that WILL happen, but it certainly something within the realm of possibility. So much so that the Bulls could literally catapult themselves into the 5-8 seeds. If our team holds onto the leads and plays at home like it did in 02-03 there is absolutely no reason to count ourselves out of anything. 

But in the overall rlucas, you never know. What if Kidd goes down again? What if Zydrunas gets hurt again?

Injuries will impact this race and whoever stays the healthiest WILL BE IN THE PLAYOFFS.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> If the team stays healthy, improvement is just going to happen.
> 
> When you got two bigs like Chandler and Curry its just going to happen. If they improve upon last year and Curry is in shape and more consistently, then the sky is the limit.
> ...


Well Wookie, want to put some money where your mouth is? 

There is clearly 7 better teams. and a dogfight for the 8th spot, a spot that we dont have the inside track on. And considering that 4 of our top 7 are 1st or second year players, and that our vets (Davis, JYD) are really showing signs of deterioation, you cant tell me with a straight face that we are level with teams like Boston (pierce, welsh and a ton of young talent themselves) and NJ (Kidd and RJ). One more year of lottery basketball. This team is set up to be pretty good in 05/06. But coming off a base of 23 wins, itll take 40 to get into the playoffs next year in the east. 17/23=74%. How many teams increase their winning percentage by that? The answer is about once every 5 years. Odds are against you.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> If the team stays healthy, improvement is just going to happen.
> 
> When you got two bigs like Chandler and Curry its just going to happen. If they improve upon last year and Curry is in shape and more consistently, then the sky is the limit.
> ...


Milwaukee wont be a top 4 lock, they aren't even a playoff lock. They are too streaky of a team.

1. Miami Heat- Diesel's coming what else to say.
2. Indiana Pacers- Have all the talent and upgraded Al Harrington with Stephen Jackson. Their success is just pending that Larry Bird does'nt trade Ron Artest for crap.
3. Boston Celtics- Win their division and have an OK team. Al Jefferson will be good though.
4. Detroit Pistons- Good team but fall to 4th seed cuz of the Pacers in their division.
5. Orlando Magic- Nice lineup and Howard will be good.
6. Chicago Bulls- Nice addition of Ben Gordon. Remember last years point guard out of a final 4 team that went through 3 seasons of college ball. Hmmm Dwyane Wade anybody. Eddy and Tyson actually in shape !!!
7. Milwaukee- Allstar presence of Michael Redd and the contributions of Van Horn and Mason should be enough.
8. Philidalphia 76ers- Iverson will be back with Iguodala as his side kick
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9. New York Knicks
10.Toronto Raptors 
11.New Jersey Nets
12.Washington Wizards
13.Cleveland Caveleirs
14.Charlotte Bobcats
15.Atlanta Hawks


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>mizenkay</b>!
> psssst Kramer how's the *hangover* this morning?
> 
> 
> :grinning:   :laugh:


:laugh: 

I think he's knocked out till tomorrow night.


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

Good God!! I agree with the thread title, which isn't surprising to me considering _I was the one who came up with the theory in the first place_!!!   

But, Kramer, I'm glad you posted it. You made some good points, which was very impressive, considering your state at the time. :grinning:

Wookies, your last post was great and I agree with everything you said. I don't see why any of those teams, especially Philly, Boston, Washington and Toronto, should be expected to be much, if any, better than us. Throw in the fact that Jason Kidd could be traded, which would then throw them into that group (They will be a playoff team as long as Kidd is on the team and healthy).

No Kool-aid here! Just realistic expectations this time around! :yes:


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

The Bulla are in a tough division with Detroit, Indiana, Milwaukee in it. But let's look at the teams in the EC...

Detroit, New Jersey, Boston, Orlando, Miami, Philadelphia, Washington, Charlotte, New York, Cleveland, Toronto, Milwaukee, Atlanta, Chicago, Indiana


In my opinion, the top 4 teams are...

Miami

Detroit

Indiana

Milwaukee

- Losing Martin as well as Jason Kidd's health will affect New Jersey

- Losing Boozer for nothing will hurt Cleveland as he was their second leading scorer and leading rebounder

- Unless Iguodala helps Iverson in the scoring department Philly will be hard pressed to make the playoffs

- Orlando will have a solid team with Francis, Mobley and Cato along with Dwight Howard. Grant Hil, is the wild card, but Orlando should be able to make the playoffs.

- New York is capped out and an old team full of overpaid players. Houston's knees will be a problem for this team. Unless Houston gets healthy, they won't make the playoffs either. Thomas made one move too many, and traded away future draft picks and young players.


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## Kramer (Jul 5, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PC Load Letter</b>!
> Good God!! I agree with the thread title, which isn't surprising to me considering _I was the one who came up with the theory in the first place_!!!
> 
> But, Kramer, I'm glad you posted it. You made some good points, which was very impressive, considering your state at the time. :grinning:
> ...


I've told you for weeks to post the theory, but you never did!! Someone had to take charge.

Kool-aid had nothing to do with my predictions... but I wasn't technically drinking kool-aid last night.

Let's not forget that the Bulls have a full year and mini-camp under Skiles this year. Like Skiles or not, having an extra year in his system will definitely help this team, especially when half of our players had trouble remembering plays last year.

I don't think Orlando is making the playoffs. Francis and Mobley is a good backcourt, but what else do they have.. 
Grant Hill? Let's assume he won't play until he proves us wrong. 
Cato? He's clearly nothing special. 
Pat Garrity? He's a solid role player, but I don't think it's enough.
Dwight Howard? A HS'er will bring them into the play-offs? He hasn't exactly been Al Jeffersoning it up in the summer league.

Milwaukee does have a great TEAM, but they're not exactly rich with talent. IF the Bulls finally get their act together, Milwaukee is a team that the Bulls _should_ pass. If not, maybe another C should meet the trading block.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I'm suprised no one has posted this yet, but I'll do the honors this time.










But yeah, I'm pulling for my bullies as always. Maybe this year is the year. It's all up to Fats Curry. He's awesome. Now he just needs to show the rest of the league from game 1 to game 82.


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## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

It pains me to see someone put the Wizards at 12. I could go into the various reasos why a team that was significantly hampered by injury last year and was still better than the Bulls, did more to improve themselves for the upcoming season, taking into account that both teams are healthy, but I won't.

It just pains me.

I expect the Bulls to be better for sure, but addind 3 rookies not named Dwyane, Carmello, or LeBron, is not going to make a significant difference in consistency, though I am sure they will have their flashes, and probably will not help the win total that much. Chandler playing a full season would help, though rumors of an improved form on a jump is meaningless without results, and Curry has still to prove he can play strong and consistent. He needs another move down low as it was obvious teams keyed on his hook.

All I am saying is that there were a lot of reasons the Bulls season last year was less than successful. I am not convinced these issues were solved outsideof the esophigitis of Chandler, and not necessarily his back problems. It is just too early to tell without an extended look at them once the season starts.

I picked the Bulls and Wizards because those are the two teams I watched last year. I see people putting Milwaukee up there, and I am skeptical they can repeat what they did last season. I see Miami up there to, but if Shaq takes his 20 games off do they have any depth? This conference is wide open from 3 to 8 outside of Atlanta and Charlotte. Good luck to everyone.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

I think you can put kool aid in the ice cube tray and make some nice cold treats.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Here is my take on our chances this year...

For us to make the playoffs a couple of things have to happen...

1)Curry must finally realize his potential i.e. 18/8, at the very least.
2)Tyson Chandler must play 75 games and gives us rebounding and a presence in the middle.
3)Ben Gordon and Luol Deng must combine for 35 points a game.
4)Nocioni has to be a lockdown defender for the more talented wings in the East
5)Hinrich has to continue on his rookie campaign
6)JYD and AD have to give solid contributions
7)We have to add somebody in a sign-and-trade with Jamal Crawford who can help the team...

Here is my take on the rest of the teams in the East...

ATLANTIC
_Boston Celtics_ 
Pierce is their guy, and they have some good pieces in Banks, Davis, LaFrentz, and Blount. I don't know if Blount will put up the same numbers he did last year, but a healthy season from LaFrentz is the difference
WINS: 35-40

_New Jersey Nets_ 
If Kidd gets traded this team is awful because RJeff is not a #1 guy. Right now if they can trade for SAR and add somebody on the wings in free agency, they will still be a good team in the East.
WINS: 42-47(w/Kidd), 31-36(w/o Kidd)

_New York Knicks_ 
Thomas has the talent there, but this team just didn't perform last year. A whole season with Marbury, T.Thomas, and Nazr should make this team a contender in their division, but I'm not sure if they'll ever actually be a legit fear in the East
WINS: 45-50(on talent alone)

_Philadelphia Seventy Sixers_ 
I think this is the team that bounces back IF IF Allen Iverson is healthy. AI and G-Rob will be the offense. Dalembert and Coleman the post presence and a solid bench with Iggy, Thomas, Skinner, and Salmons should make them the division champions...
WINS: 48-53(if AI is healthy), 36-41(if AI isn't healthy)

_Toronto Raptors_ 
By far the toughest team to figure out. If Araujo is half the player I think he'll be next year, they're gonna be tough. I don't how many people they'll stop though. Alston doesn't play D and neither does Rose, VC, or Bosh. Araujo isn't a shotblocking presence either.
WINS: 34-39(b/c of their D)

CENTRAL DIVISION
_Chicago Bulls_ 
Clearly, still a young team and it depends on if Gordon and Deng contribute and contribute heavily. You saw the reasons I've listed above, but I still think we are a year or two away...
WINS: 33-38(still too young)

_Cleveland Cavaliers_ 
The loss of Boozer hurts and the Cavs are weak up front. I'm not sold on Pavlovic and L-Jax although people often through their biases into the mix on both guys. McInnis isn't anything special, however, if they get a decent season out of Wagner they'll be okay.
WINS: 36-41(if Z is healthy)

_Detroit Pistons_ 
Didn't lose anything and actually upgraded their squad. With Sheed for a whole year, this is the team to beat in the East. Delfino, Big Nasty, McDyess on the bench and maybe Darko will produce something...
WINS: 60-65(b/c of Indiana)

_Indiana Pacers_ 
This team seems to be losing it to me. Miller is old, they have no presence at center, Tinsley is good, but just not a star. They traded away Harrington who was a good 6th man for S-Jax who doesn't really fit behind Artest, Reggie, and Fred Jones. I think they'll drop off...
WINS: 48-53(bad offseason moves)

_Milwaukee Bucks_ 
They got by last year with Redd suprising people, but this team is not gonna be good this year. Redd will come down and a frontline of Van Horn, Smith, and Gadzuric doesn't scare a NBDL team. If Redd improves they'll have a shot to be good, but I don't know why everybody thinks the Bucks are a top 4 team. 
WINS: 31-36

SOUTHEAST DIVISION
_Atlanta Hawks_ 
Just in complete overhaul mode. They've really got nothing on their team besides Terry and Childress. This is the Clippers East, not the Bulls. They won't compete for a long time...
WINS: 24-29

_Charlotte Bobcats_ 
This team replacing New Orleans helps the Bulls tremendously. They might win 20 games depending on who they sign in free agency, but with a payroll of 28 million, this team is gonna be bead...
WINS: 16-21

_Miami Heat_ 
The team in this division and I think they'll be the #1 seed b/c they get more games against the weakest division possibly in basketball history. Shaq + Wade is equal to Shaq + Kobe in the West so they'll be the favorites come April...
WINS: 62-67

_Orlando Magic_ 
Another team people expect to be good and I don't understand why. They took their best player and replaced him with Francis, Mobley, and Cato. Unless Francis and Mobley can dominate a strong backcourt-oriented East (they won't) the Magic won't be any better than a year ago. If Hill comes back, he won't be Grant Hill and find himself coming off the bench in a bit of a different role...
WINS: 26-31

_Washington Wizards_ 
This team could become suprising or disappointing. I'm not sure what adding Jamison does for them as anytime he's the guy, his teams have been awful. Although Arenas + Jamison put together a good season in Golden State 2 years ago and could do it again
WINS: 39-44

Just for argument's sake let's take one of the the middle numbers of the range I gave...

ATLANTIC
Philadelphia Sixers(51-31)
New York Knicks(47-35)
New Jersey Nets(44-38)
Boston Celtics(37-45)
Toronto Raptors(36-46)

CENTRAL
Detroit Pistons(63-19)
Indiana Pacers(51-31)
Cleveland Cavaliers(37-45)
Chicago Bulls(35-47)
Milwaukee Bucks(33-49)

SOUTHEAST
Miami Heat(65-17)
Washington Wizards(39-43)
Orlando Magic(29-53)
Atlanta Hawks(26-56)
Charlotte Bobcats(18-64)

Which means...
#1 - Miami Heat
#2 - Detroit Pistons
#3 - Philly
#4 - Indiana Pacers
#5 - New York Knicks
#6 - New Jersey Nets
#7 - Washington Wizards
#8 - Cleveland/Boston

#9 - Toronto(1 GB)
#10 - Chicago(2 GB)


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

NO WAY, the Sixers win 51 games. The most they'll win is 45.


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

rlucas, don't let immaturity get in the way of your head. I know it's a BIG problem of yours, but settle down. This is a message board and I am allowed to DISAGREE WITH YOU. 

(say it ain't so Wookie, say it ain't so! :no:  )

Yes it's true people, you're allowed to disagree with rlucas. It's not a tragedy. I've disagreed with him a lot over the years. 

"Put your money where your mouth is" <---- The stupidest thing you've ever said rlucas. 



Listen, spend more time convincing me why those teams that I listed are SOOOO much better than us and less time challenging me to ridiculous bets. 

Who cares what the odds are?

Teams in the East have gotten progressively worse. Strangely, that helps our odds. 

Boston--->Still doesn't have a point guard, plus their entire front court success is based on the output of a kid coming out of high school. 

New Jersey----->Lost Kenyon Martin which means they have absolutely NO front court right now. Jason Kidd has been having health issues lately. 

New York----->Okay, I think pretty much 95% of the board can explain to you this one. 

Orlando----->Ya, they got Francis and Mobely, but that tandem didn't even make it to the playoffs until they got Yao. Is Dwight Howard...Yao? NOT EVEN CLOSE. Maybe in 3 or 4 years he'll be a stud. But this year? Keep dreaming. 

Toronto---->Unhappy Vince. No team chemistry. Plus they got Rose. 

Cleveland---->Ya they got Lebron, but they lost their 2nd best player for nothing and Carlos was a big reason for their success. If McInnis and Z stay healthy, they'll be tough especially after getting Luke Jackson. I'll give you that, but not as good as last year when they had Boozer in that lineup. Who is going to do the dirty work for the team that Boozer was doing? Who? They can't rely on Eric Williams anymore because he's gone. 

Philly---->They got Iggy. Awesome, I'm happy for them. I really really liked Iggy. But we're not talking about PRACTICE here rlucas, we're talking about games. AI, will be playing in the olympics this summer and that's going to be good for his health. He'll most likely get hurt again with something. They got some nice young players, but if AI isn't in the lineup they simply cannot score. It's that simple. Not only does their offense go down, but so does their defense. They don't really have a good powerforward. Kenny Thomas is overrated, overpaid, and soft. Though, Dalembert is definately a guy I like watching...defensively. 

Washington--->Young and improving, but do they got any coaching on that team to mold all of that talent together? I don't know. We'll have to see of Twan and Arenas can work together.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> rlucas, don't let immaturity get in the way of your head. I know it's a BIG problem of yours, but settle down. This is a message board and I am allowed to DISAGREE WITH YOU.
> 
> (say it ain't so Wookie, say it ain't so! :no:  )
> ...


Whats so funny about this is that I DISAGREED WITH YOU and your post challenged me and called me out. I just said if you feel so strongly, lets put some money down. And now I am stupid? immature? ridiculous? If I am all of those things then take advantage of it. Im good for it. Or is it because your full of it? Go back to realgm where you belong


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

Now you're telling me to back to RealGM. 

Oooooooo.

I didn't challenge you in my other post. I simply made the point that I wasn't convinced that there was "7 teams that were CLEARLY better than the Bulls". 

Something you STILL haven't taken the time to actually back up with analysis. 

First off, my post about the playoffs was in response to YOUR post about saying how so many teams are better. Then I DISAGREED WITH YOU, then you wrote that stupid comment about "put your money where your mouth is"...

I didn't say you were stupid. I said your comment was stupid. There's a difference and even Matrix can figure that one out and tell you the same. 

And the only time I said ridiculous is in reference to the bet. 



> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> 
> Listen, spend more time convincing me why those teams that I listed are SOOOO much better than us and less time challenging me to *ridiculous* bets.


Yes the bet was ridiculous not you. Otherwise I would have said this:



> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>
> 
> You are ridiculous rlucas.


Now yes, I did call you immature big guy. But calm down, it was because the I felt the comment you made was VERY immature. 

Now, this is your oppurtunity to actually spend LESS time attacking me and MORE time attacking my argument. 

That being that I don't believe these other 3 teams are so CLEARLY better than us. You absolutely IGNORED everything I posted and said in my last thread about the other individual teams. If you are going to ignore the argument than I am making and concentrate on the things you've created in your own mind then go for it. I won't stop you, but don't EVER make it seem like I said one thing when I actually didn't. 

That kind of behavior is by definition...immature.


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

In order to retrace the steps of DISAGREEMENT, I thought I'd list the posts involved. 

First you made this post:



> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> You guys are setting yourself up for alot of disappointment
> 
> The Bulls are hugely improved in terms of talent. However, when was the last time you saw a team double its win total in a year to make the playoffs? Denver did it last year, but had Carmello Anthony and Andre Miller. It doesnt happen often. ANd that is what would nearly have to happen for the Bulls to make the playoffs.
> ...


Then I made this post:



> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> If the team stays healthy, improvement is just going to happen.
> 
> When you got two bigs like Chandler and Curry its just going to happen. If they improve upon last year and Curry is in shape and more consistently, then the sky is the limit.
> ...


Then you made this post in response: 



> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> 
> Well Wookie, want to put some money where your mouth is?
> ...


Then I made this response: 



> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> rlucas, don't let immaturity get in the way of your head. I know it's a BIG problem of yours, but settle down. This is a message board and I am allowed to DISAGREE WITH YOU.
> 
> (say it ain't so Wookie, say it ain't so! :no:  )
> ...


Then you said: 



> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>
> 
> Whats so funny about this is that I DISAGREED WITH YOU and your post challenged me and called me out. I just said if you feel so strongly, lets put some money down. And now I am stupid? immature? ridiculous? If I am all of those things then take advantage of it. Im good for it. Or is it because your full of it? Go back to realgm where you belong.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Remember the Golden Rule of BBB.Net:

Focus on the post, not the poster.

Wookie and rlucas, please stop getting personal.

This thread is about the Bulls making the playoffs or not.

Not about maturity of posters, who "belongs" on what board, etc.


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

I don't think its personal. Its just heated brother. 

Trust me, we've had IM sessions where we have been at eachother's throats in a DEBATE. 

I think rlucas just didn't read what I said properly and as soon as he saw the first line of the one post it clearly clouded everything else I said in the post.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> rlucas, don't let immaturity get in the way of your head. I know it's a BIG problem of yours, but settle down.


personal.


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

:laugh: 

I thought he'd laugh it off because of all the other stupid things he's said in the heat of the moment in the past. 

He's called me plenty of things in the past including an "idiot" on AIM.  

I have absolutely NO personal grudge with rlucas. We're actually pretty good mates, but we tend to disagree a lot.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> :laugh:
> 
> I thought he'd laugh it off because of all the other stupid things he's said in the heat of the moment in the past.
> ...


and you havent called me worse? Ahh, I guess thats right, you save the personal insults for a public forum

Tom, Wookie and I have been chatting on IM for years. If he and I get heated, thats the norm. There is nothing personal from me. But personal insults, even from Wookie, should be deleted and edited. And yes, calling someone Immature, stupid and ridiculous, was over the top. Even for Wookie, and our heated debates

and by the way tom, I am trying to find Where I said something personal or called Wookie any names?


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

Once again re-read. 

I called your comment about the bet...stupid. 

I called the bet ridiculous. 

Not you. 

What is it that we're missing here? :whoknows:


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> :laugh:
> 
> I thought he'd laugh it off because of all the other stupid things he's said in the heat of the moment in the past.
> ...


and after all that, he writes this post, saying:


I thought he'd laugh it off because of all the other stupid things he's said in the heat of the moment in the past. 

So again, another personal insult. As though you havent been guilty of this as well. 

Id also like to point out, that when you had problems at Realgm, I went out of my way to introduce you to bbb.net and when you had issues getting on, it was me or went to Tom to get you a login. Well, now I see it, I guess I was stupid to help you out.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

OK, so you both have big penises. Now stop flirting. :makeout:


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

Rlucas....

You bet I've said my share.  

I'm no :angel: and I would never claim to be. 

But you seem to ignore my point and focus on something else (perhaps you suffer from ADD? j/k) Even your boy Matrix agrees with me.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> Once again re-read.
> 
> I called your comment about the bet...stupid.
> ...


and Immature

AND EVEN YOU, RLUCAS, KNOWS How does that read? 

Fact is, you crossed the line.

And whats most funny about your so called evidence is that you skipped your original post. My first post rebutted your post. But I am not allowed to disagree with you and your allowed to disagree with me? And refer to my little challenge on a bet, which as you should know since we chat on AOL, could be anything, as stupid and ridiculous? Yet call me immature and strongly worded statements like AND EVEN YOU, RLUCAS, which sure sounds to me like I am beneath you. I believe you stepped over the line. and your follow up is what? "Id thought youd laugh it off after all the stupid things you have said in the past?" Your a class act wookie


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> Rlucas....
> 
> You bet I've said my share.
> ...


Lets focus on the last sentence. Do I suffer from ADD now, since Matrix and you agree, or are you kidding? Again, another insult. Number 6 according to my count. 

How many more can we go?


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

> or are you kidding?




He did put "j/k" after it.


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

I made a point I thought was obvious to the world, including you. 

And "even you" could also be---> "including you"

It didn't read to me as it obviously read to you. For that, I apologize if you read into something I wrote. I should have been more clear. 

My original post has absolutely NOTHING to do with your post. Your post was not directed at my post but directed at all the posters predicting/expecting playoffs which I didn't do in my first post. 

Don't believe me, read it again.


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> You know I wouldn't be the first or the last to make excuses for the team last year, but....
> 
> There was just no team continuity last year and part of that fault fell onto the hands of Bill Cartwright who was a disaster as a head coach and I've said it since day 1 when he was hired.
> ...


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> I made a point I thought was obvious to the world, including you.
> 
> And "even you" could also be---> "including you"
> ...


My first post was a rebuttal to people who think we will be in the playoffs. It was a well written piece with nothing in there that can be construed as personal or derogatory, towards you or anyone else, read it again. It was in disagreement with you, but according to your yourself, we are allowed to disagree.

Your next sentence nearly was

EVEN YOU RLUCAS KNOWS

Again, that is fairly obvious what your trying to say. 

Now, I make another post saying quite simply, lets bet on it then. It doesnt have to be money, it could be something like the bet I had with Angmarkram on ESPN 3 years ago (he never paid up). Your response was fairly typical.

Stupid, immature, ridiculous. Typical for realgm, and typical for someone who doesnt like to be challenged. You cant point to one statement that I made that was insulting to you. 

Now Boerwinkle gets on this thread, tells the 2 of us to calm down. I have no idea why he is telling me to calm down since I havent made a statement derogatory towards you. He then specifically points out a comment that you made. Whats your response? Well, after all the STUPID Comments he has made........................ Real classy. 

Now how do you wrap it up? Well you state this. maybe you have ADD j/k, even though Matrix agrees with me. So now you insult me again. 

That would be like me saying 
Bush is a freaking dip**** j/k even though John Kerry agrees with me.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> and by the way tom, I am trying to find Where I said something personal or called Wookie any names?


I did point out your belittling "Go back to RealGM where you belong."


Hey, if you guys want to flame each other, I don't care. Switch over to AIM and have at it.

Here, please stick to the subject at hand, and avoid the potshots. You know why we promote attacking the post but never the poster? To avoid the bad feelings that have escalated as this thread went on. Its sound policy. You are both first class posters and IMO that comes through more clearly when you stick to the issues.

Thanks for your cooperation.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

rlucas4257 is way easier to spell in the snow than WookiesOnRitalin.

We get it already.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> rlucas4257 is way easier to spell in the snow than WookiesOnRitalin.
> 
> We get it already.


:laugh: 

and TomBoerwinkle#1 is even harder to spell in the snow. Especially since I have to stand on my tiptoes to keep the tip of my writing utensil out of the snow drifts...


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Tough to make # look like #, eh?


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> 
> Boston--->Still doesn't have a point guard, plus their entire front court success is based on the output of a kid coming out of high school.


I actually believe Boston's best assest, next to SF and SG, is PG. 

They still have Chucky Atkins unless he gets traded to Cleveland in a sign and trade for Eric Williams ( :no: ). Atkins had a very good assist to turnover statistic last year (you can look it up if you want to). He was a capable leader and director and he lead the fastbreak without any flaws. 

Marcus Banks is still developing and he will log in 20-25 minutes this year. Remember, this guy is one of the fastest point guards in the league. He can lead a fastbreak and he is a great pullup shooter and slasher. All he needs to do now is to cut turnovers and pass more often (even though he isn't a sture PG). 

Delonte West, even though his best position is shooting guard, can play spot minutes at point guard and even though I don't like him, the fact is he is an excellent shooter and can get some assists. He hasn't been tearing up the summer league like Jefferson, but he has been solid and that's all Boston can ask from him right now.

Also remember, we still have Paul Pierce, and from his media comments in the offseason, he might not be a jack *** this season and actually play team ball limiting the turnovers , Ricky Davis for a full season, Jiri Welsch, who actually is the bright spot of the gloomy Antoine trade. That is a solid SF/SG group. Also, there is Tony Allen (who is tearing up summer league), Walter McCarty ( :sigh: :dead: ), and Jumaine Jones, who should rebound from last year because he might actually understand our offense. 

Lafrentz might actually be here for one full season, Jefferson is predicted to almost have an Amare caliber season, and Blount might put up close to 13/9. Perkins is developing into a defensive presence, and Hunter...Damn. We let Hunter go to the Bobcats.

I'm not saying Boston will win 50 games next year, but we will suprise some doubters. I'd say 39-42 wins next season is a good estimate.


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

Rlucas...

Did I say, "Rlucas is calling me names! BAN HIM!!" ?

No I did not. 

Have I accused you of such a post occuring in this thread? 

No...

Have I accused you of being a degredation to the board?

No...

Yes, you made my point for me. Your post had nothing to deal with my first post since it wasn't about predicting playoffs. I even posted it for you to re-read. Cause you said and I quote:



> Oringally posted by <b>rlucas4257<b/>!
> 
> And whats most funny about your so called evidence is that you skipped your original post. My first post rebutted your post.


Your first post did not rebut anything in my first post. If you did then please point out the specific areas where you rebutted from my original post. 

Also, I'm not here to insult you rlucas. You're taking this WAAAY too personally and I still don't know why you're freaking out over nothing. You're overreacting. 





But you still haven't made a counter argument to my point about those other teams. When are you going to counter my argument and stop worrying about what I called that bet. 

I'm going to say it again just for repeat. 

The comment was stupid, not you. The bet was ridiculous. I think betting people online about whether or not the Bulls make the playoffs is a tad bit childish. We're not in grade school. I have an opinion you have yours. 

The thing is, I'm not going to change my opinion until you convince me otherwise which you still haven't done because you've too busy freaking out. 

Calm down and prove to my why those other teams are better.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> Rlucas...
> 
> Did I say, "Rlucas is calling me names! BAN HIM!!" ?
> ...


No, quit baiting me and insulting me. Throughout this whole thread, its one insult after another. 

if you read my first post then you will see that it clearly states to get to the playoffs, the Bulls would have to increase their win total by 74%. That happens very rarely, thought it happened with Denver last year. And for Denver to do it, they aqquired some great players to do it. We havent. But I guess you missed reading that inbetween all of your insults. So please grow up and talk maturely, or do take your banter elsewhere.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ShamBulls</b>!
> OK, so you both have big penises. Now stop flirting. :makeout:


I have a big penis, too. Can I play?


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> 
> 
> :laugh:
> ...


Looking at the pictures from the BBB.net draft party I'd have never guessed you were that short!


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Post #22 seems to be where people really started taking this in the wrong direction. It's pretty far over the dam at this point, but I don't get the reason things had to go in this direction. If this wasn't a good thread otherwise, it'd be closed by now.


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

Rlucas...I saw that point. 

It's not that I don't agree with you about the difficulty of changing from a 23 win team to a 43 win team over night. I do agree and hence why I didn't choose to disagree with you in any of my posts about that. 

That's not the point I was making. 

You said that X numbers of Eastern teams were CLEARLY better than the Bulls. 

I took 4 off by calling them locks for the playoffs. 

I wanted you to explain to me why those other teams were clearly better than the Bulls. You still haven't rebutted that point.


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

By the way, I'm not baiting you, I just want you to explain to me why you feel the way you do about those other teams is all. 

It was a simple response that I wanted from you and you still haven't responded to it. I just want that answered from you before you start cursing my name to all of the execs here at BBB.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> Rlucas...I saw that point.
> 
> It's not that I don't agree with you about the difficulty of changing from a 23 win team to a 43 win team over night. I do agree and hence why I didn't choose to disagree with you in any of my posts about that.
> ...


Simply because I dont believe the Bulls offseason makes up the 12 or so odd games that they have to on the other teams that they have to catch up. Usually you have to add a Tim Duncan to make up that difference. And while on paper we might might be as good as say Philly, why were they 10-12 games better then us? With Iverson missing a ton of games no less. Now they add Jim Obrien and Andre Igoudala to the mix and there is no reason to believe we will catch a team like that or Boston. If Kobe had become a Bull, it might be different. Thats exactly why those teams are clearly better then us. But who knows, maybe Ben Gordon is the second coming of Isiah and Deng is the second coming of Pippen. Its possible. But dont you think, highly unlikely?

Also let me point out that relatively speaking, injuries didnt hurt us that much last year. Chandler missed a ton of games. But outside of him, relatively injury free. And teams like Philly lost Iverson for a lot of games, Orlando missed a ton of games, so I dont believe Tyson Chandler can make up the 12 game difference, or so. 

And let it be said that I think the 8th seed in the east wins 40 next year. Do you think the Bulls really improved by 74% in win totals? If you do, fine. But you havent explained why? If you look at history, it can be done. But most of those changes have come because of circumstances that Chicago hasnt had this offseason. So to say itll happen, is very unlikely. Is that stupid to look at history?


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> By the way, I'm not baiting you, I just want you to explain to me why you feel the way you do about those other teams is all.
> 
> It was a simple response that I wanted from you and you still haven't responded to it. I just want that answered from you before you start cursing my name to all of the execs here at BBB.


baiting, insulting, whatever you want to call it, your clearly guilty of it. Using terms like your immature, stupid, ridiculous are pretty clearly a bait or taunt. If you dont think so, then you need to check those terms out. You went about your business in a certain way. And now that your worried about the higher ups being told of that, you want to clear the air? Well, maybe you should have thought about that before bashing me

I mean, in this thread, I have been told thats the stupidiest thing I have ever said, that I have ADD, and you even called out the board by saying that "its ok to disagree with rlucas" as though I wont allow it? Not to mention all your other comments. Dont you think you crossed the line?


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

For my part, I think we're quite a lot better, but I don't think we make the playoffs.

If we land Noicini and Crawford, however and if Chandler is healthy, we'll have a shot. Unlike in past years, if we do that then our improvements will be more than the sum of their parts. Deng and Noicini, by virture of plugging the massive hole we had that the 3 mean that we won't be playing 4 on 5 anymore. Chandler back to his 2003 self will be a big help too. 

The questions will be whether we can guard anyone and stop anyone, and whether Curry can do anything besides provide points.

Looking at the other teams, Detroit, Indiana, Miami, Toronto, Cleveland and Orlando look clearly better. Every other team looks potentially as good or better and potentially worse. Too hard to say at this point what happens.

I think the overriding factor is that the other teams we play the most- those in our division, look like very tough matchups. I don't see us beating up on those guys very often.

I think 30 wins is realistic, 35 would be pretty good, and 40 would be truly outstanding.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
> 
> baiting, insulting, whatever you want to call it, your clearly guilty of it. Using terms like your immature, stupid, ridiculous are pretty clearly a bait or taunt. If you dont think so, then you need to check those terms out. You went about your business in a certain way. And now that your worried about the higher ups being told of that, you want to clear the air? Well, maybe you should have thought about that before bashing me
> 
> I mean, in this thread, I have been told thats the stupidiest thing I have ever said, that I have ADD, and you even called out the board by saying that "its ok to disagree with rlucas" as though I wont allow it? Not to mention all your other comments. Dont you think you crossed the line?


OK, ok, we were getting back to the point of things... how about we let this stuff go?


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

We were relatively injury free?

Tyson being out was huge. 

Pippen (Paxson's biggest FA signing) couldn't play the whole year. 

Gill was often on the bench and hurt (another one of those signings).

Here's the numbers:
Tyson - Missed 47 games (58% of the season)
Pippen - Missed 59 games (72% of the season)
E-Rob - Missed 31 games (38% of the season)
Gill - Missed 26 games (32% of the season) 
JYD - Missed 29 games (35% of the season)
Fizer - Missed 36 games (44% of the season)

6 guys missing a third or more of the season. 

Your really only healthy players:
Crawford
Hinrich
Curry
Davis

Plus the rest of the scrubs. 


I think injuries really affected our overall team output. 

With all things considered I look at it this way:

Nocionni > Pippen
Gordon > Gill 
Deng > Dupree
Duhon > Brunson

I think we're a healthy team away from the playoffs or a healthy team away from atleast 35 wins because I think our team concept and defense is just going to be spectacular next year especially getting healthier and younger. 

I think we can give it to teams next year. 

How many leads did we lose last year? We weren't as bad as 23 wins Rlucas. We just found ways to beat ourselves last year. We had to lead the league in most blown leads. This team could have easily been a 30 win team IMO.


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

The ADD and the "call for disagreeing with rlucas" were jokes. 

I apologize if you didn't find them as humorous.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> We were relatively injury free?
> 
> Tyson being out was huge.
> ...


relatively injury free is the truth

How many games did Tracy McGrady and Grant Hill miss?
How many games did Glenn Robinson and Allen Iverson miss?
How many games did Raef LaFrentz miss?
How many games did Jamal Mashburn miss?
How many games did Jason Kidd and Kenyon Martin miss?
How many games did Dwayne Wade and Caron Butler miss? 
How many games did Vince Carter miss?


Relative to other teams, we were no better or worse, probably on a relative basis, less injured, and thats just the east. Injuries is an excuse. 

Actually, I think your referring to 2 years ago when the Bulls were at one point 0-8 in OT games. We didnt lead the league in blown leads, most of the times, the games were never particularly close. Also, I came to Chicago to watch Sacramento and Memphis put half *** efforts knowing they could beat the Bulls at any time. And they did, in relatively close games. But they were never in any doubt. Wait til teams turn it up a notch against the Bulls

So at the end of the day, Bulls fans can go around saying, well we werent a 23 win club. The year before we werent a 30 win club. and the 4 years before that we certainly werent sub 30 win clubs. But what matters is the actual number. And last time I checked, we were a 23 win club last year. And that is the number we must build off of. A team like Orlando can legitimately point to Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady and call it a fluke, we dont have that luxury.


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## rlucas4257 (Jun 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> The ADD and the "call for disagreeing with rlucas" were jokes.
> 
> I apologize if you didn't find them as humorous.


So funny that you kept them going?

It wasnt funny enough the first time that you just had to see if it would be funnier the second time I guess?


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

This thread has been unnecesarily hijacked.

Closed for now.


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