# The Official " I was wrong about Tyrus Thomas " thread



## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

Glad to see that Tyrus is showing a fuller array of skills that some sensed were there rather than just being the skinny azzed jumping jack Stro Swift clone with no real game other than garbage detail and weakside intimidation 

For those that were in the latter camp you may periodically drop by when your ready to give your props to Tyrus Thomas 

The boy can play.

Seriously

He has a raw fairly full package that needs a bit of vet/hard nosed spit and polish ..but then look out . He has real super star potential

Early days ..but I had him then Bargnani as 1 and 2 and then a more practical side of me switched Bargnani 1 and Thomas 2 even though I sensed /sense that Thomas is the superior talent and will be a superior NBA player 

Bargnani is still going to be very very good

But I truly believe Thomas has a chance at greatness


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## JPTurbo (Jan 8, 2006)

I think my fandom of Texas clouded my judgment a little, but I really wanted us to draft Aldridge. I'm 95% sure Paxson made the right choice now and am glad I'm not the GM.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

While I'm not ready to say he's gonna be a star, I am gonna say that if we knew the additional moves that would be made, TT makes much more sense.

I am glad to see he's playing with the passion he's known for.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Hey, I'm happy that I wasn't wrong for once 

(So far anyway... two pre-season games and a summer league doesn't say a lot, but it's pretty clear he's showing skills a lot of folks didn't expect to see)


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

The kid has a chance to be great. At both ends of the court!


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

I for one am still not impressed and will have to see a lot more.

May I also add that I am indeed blind.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

The only things that have surprised me so far is his passing and his perimeter defense. His positional defense isn't as good as in college, but I'm sure that will come as he becomes more comfortable with the Bulls scheme.

I still don't see these great handles that everyone was clamoring about. He seems to dribble out of control whenever he tries to make a quick move. Although I did like and-one move to the baseline in yesterday's preseason game.

He may have a little more potential than I gave him credit for, but nothing really has surprised me yet after the Summer League and two preseason games.

I was in the Aldridge camp prior to the draft.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Do I pick em' or DO I pick em!

This kid is going to be a problem and I said it since LAST year when I was 100% certain that Paxson would see him, love him and draft him

TWO back to back plays where he stole or blocked the ball and started a fast break for two easy dunks for himself...

All hail T2, the best athlete in a Bulls uni since...........


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

The ROY said:


> Do I pick em' or DO I pick em!
> 
> This kid is going to be a problem and I said it since LAST year when I was 100% certain that Paxson would see him, love him and draft him
> 
> ...


...Corey Benjamin. :biggrin:


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

kulaz3000 said:


> ...Corey Benjamin. :biggrin:


Oh yeah, forgot about him lol he was a very good dunker though


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

lol, those people look like idiots now!


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Mebarak said:


> lol, those people look like idiots now!


ah hem!


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

The ROY said:


> ah hem!


That was just pre-draft propoganda to trade the pick in a package for Garnett.

Remember, after we drafted him, when everyone said we'd have no offensive production in the post, I said that Tyrus will suprise people, and give us offensive production.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

The ROY said:


> This kid is going to be a problem and I said it since LAST year when I was 100% certain that Paxson would see him, love him and draft him


I won't stop you from sucking your own popsicle, but I'd just like to point out that between LAST year and the actual draft, you fell in love with about 700 other draft picks and INSISTED that each of THEM was the GUY who WAS perfect FOR the BULLS.

Just saying.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Mebarak said:


> That was just pre-draft propoganda to trade the pick in a package for Garnett.
> 
> Remember, after we drafted him, *when everyone said we'd have no offensive production in the post*, I said that Tyrus will suprise people, and give us offensive production.


everyone said that? EVERYONE? not me. 

As for post production, TT, Wallace and Brown all three will give us enough post production.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

I never really formed an opinion on Tyrus. I wanted Bargnani or Gay with our first pick, but I've been very impressed with Tyrus. We are however in the preseason. Nobody is proven wrong or right about a player in the preseason of his rookie year.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

ScottMay said:


> I won't stop you from sucking your own popsicle, but I'd just like to point out that between LAST year and the actual draft, you fell in love with about 700 other draft picks and INSISTED that each of THEM was the GUY who WAS perfect FOR the BULLS.
> 
> Just saying.


nah, I didn't....

It was between Bargnani, Aldridge & Tyrus. Either of the three would of been GREAT fits.

I jumped on the TYrus wagon FIRST....and didn't jump off until when!?

When he announced he was a SMALL FORWARD...

So yeah, obviously I got over the kid when we already have one of the BEST SF tandem's in the NBA..

700 other draft picks huh? funny


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

My my my...

Pax sure knows who to drop and who to acquire.

He deserves a lot.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

The ROY said:


> nah, I didn't....
> 
> It was between Bargnani, Aldridge & Tyrus. Either of the three would of been GREAT fits.
> 
> ...


And this is worth kudos? Says the Tyrus long-time bandwagon guy.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

Getting PJ made TT make a lot more sense. Before we had Brown and when TT was initially calling himself a SF I definitly wanted Aldridge or Bargnani. But I always had a wait and see what Paxson thinks mind set. When Pax took TT, I almost fully expected what we are seeing now, but I have to admit no matter how many times I heard the word freak, his athleticism has really surprised me.


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

if anybody, its the 'Gay guys' that get to prematurely crow over preseason games:

Rudy:
MPG 26
PPG 16.7 
RPG 3.30 
APG 1.3
SPG 2
BPG 1.7 
EFF + 12.00 

Tyrus:
MPG 22.3
PPG 10.3 
RPG 4.00 
APG 1.0
SPG 2.0
BPG 2.0 
EFF + 11.33 

But Gay is getting slightly more minutes and for sure opportunity. Its hilarious how aggresive Tyrus is in forcing the action. When he learns when to chill out, and when to be aggresive instead of..._aggresive all the time_, He, Bargnani and Rudy will be a battlin' for best player.
Rudy will end up having the deep range dimension advantage. Tyrus will have the Neanderthal Gene advantage


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

I was totally wrong about Tyrus and will probably be totally wrong about evaluating many more players in the future. Go Bulls!!! 

:rbanana: 

(Its killing me that I can't see more NBA games out here... maybe I'll fold and get the NBA package on DTV)


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

I don't know why Tyrus was calling himself a SF, he entered the game tonight at SG...


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Realistically, he is a SF..I don't care what anyone says, he's a tall twig, Kilrilenko came into the league 6"9, 205lbs as a SF...right now, best comparison for him...

But he can play 3 positions...didn't see much out of him offensively as a SG but he did calmn down Manu a BIT

Wade thought it was hard playing Chicago before, imagine when they throw Tyrus & Thabo on him.....


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## Cyanobacteria (Jun 25, 2002)

The part nobody had wrong was _freakish_ athleticism.

Did everyone see the goaltend replay with Tyrus's hand above the square? There is simply no better adjective for the type of athleticism displayed on that play than... freakish.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

I so want to see some Tyrus highlights from the pre-season so far.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

truebluefan said:


> everyone said that? EVERYONE? not me.
> 
> As for post production, TT, Wallace and Brown all three will give us enough post production.


I have yet to see TT score in the post.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Rhyder said:


> I have yet to see TT score in the post.


only thing I could name is when he got posted by some guy, faced him, tried to cross him, lost the ball went strong to the basket but missed, then tipped it in...

only thing I've seen also


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

The ROY said:


> only thing I could name is when he got posted by some guy, faced him, tried to cross him, lost the ball went strong to the basket but missed, then tipped it in...
> 
> only thing I've seen also


That's part of what worries me about him. Maybe he is trying to hard, but his above average handles don't look too above average, especially if he thinks he's a SF.

His passing is better and his man on man defense is a bit better that what I saw out of him in college (from the small sample of games we have seen so far).

Overall, I'm mildly surprised/pleased by TT's play. He certainly should provide a lot of excitement at the very least.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

If Tyrus is going to be a small forward, then I'm not convinced we shouldn't have taken Rudy Gay with our 2nd pick. Rudy Gay has almost the athleticism and explosiveness that Tyrus does, but his perimeter skills are on another planet. 

I'd like to see Tyrus play the best way he knows how regardless of position, but I really hope that position is power forward. We have small forwards, and so does everyone else. It's the most plentiful position in the league by far.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> If Tyrus is going to be a small forward, then I'm not convinced we shouldn't have taken Rudy Gay with our 2nd pick. Rudy Gay has almost the athleticism and explosiveness that Tyrus does, but his perimeter skills are on another planet.
> 
> I'd like to see Tyrus play the best way he knows how regardless of position, but I really hope that position is power forward. We have small forwards, and so does everyone else. It's the most plentiful position in the league by far.


I think I just responded to u on Realgm LOL

I don't think u can go wrong with either Tyrus or Rudy at SF. Rudy's more of a scorer while Tyrus is more of the 'do-it-all' SF type, IF he is an SF. Just depends on your system and needs. Memphis NEEDS scoring so Rudy is perfect for them. We're more a defensive minded team that tries to force turnovers and create our offense from defense, so Tyrus is PERFECT for us.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

I think we need scoring more than defense. Tyrus is the right pick if he is eventually going to be a power forward (or atleast play more than half his minutes there), but I don't ever see him being a better small forward than Rudy Gay. Rudy Gay is going to be the best player of this draft. 

A lot of teams slept on Rudy, including the Bulls, but I'm happy with Tyrus.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> I think we need scoring more than defense. Tyrus is the right pick if he is eventually going to be a power forward (or atleast play more than half his minutes there), but I don't ever see him being a better small forward than Rudy Gay. Rudy Gay is going to be the best player of this draft.
> 
> A lot of teams slept on Rudy, including the Bulls, but I'm happy with Tyrus.


That's why I said it would depend on your team's needs.

Obviously Tyrus was drafted to be a PF but I don't think that's the case at all.

I don't think their will ever be a time where he could be deemed "the wrong pick" for the simple fact that if he becomes too good, or better than our current SF's, make a move with one of our SF's for a scoring PF or C.

I think Rudy will be the ROY, but I don't think he'll be the best out of this draft at the end of the day.

I don't think we slept on Rudy Gay, we just didn't need him.


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

Didn't Pax say he doesn't really have a position and that' s not a bad thing in the modern N.B.A

TT can be a good defensive match up on alot of guys, in term sof height and speed and length


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

I may be deserving of some Crow eating. I haven't been able to see any of these games yet, but from all reports, Tyrus's energy is not only sparking the team, but he's contributing both points and boards. I'm pleasantly surprised.

However, my #1 concern about Thomas is his head. Will be able to keep under control on the court and with his teammates and coaches? Didn't he threaten to rip out Josh McRoberts's soul? 

Tyrus is definitely a little bit of an emotional wild card, but we know he has the talent. I'm impressed that he's ready to contribute something right now.


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## synergy825 (Apr 28, 2005)

Rudy Gay And Tyrus Thomas will be the best out of this draft....I preferred Gay, but Thomas is great too. I'm just worried about Thomas....i hope he doesn't become a mental headcase. And he has to learn how to dunk with one hand like Gay.


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## UMfan83 (Jan 15, 2003)

The guy has been so impressive that I am considering ditching my plans to get a Noc jersey and be one of the first to buy a Thomas jersey.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

I don't get the whole "mental headcase" "crazy" thing about Tyrus. Don't see it at all. Hell he hasn't even been very emotional on the court, just agressive.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

My concern about TT was and is the fact that big men who rely on their quickness and jumping ability can be prone to injury. The bigger they are and the higher they leap, the harder the fall is on the knees after every hop (See Amare). Once the knees are injured hops and quickness can fade fast. 

Of course there are exceptions, and I hope TT is one of them. But it's a little early to admit being wrong about my concern.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

Roy topped my list, primarily because I felt the Bulls needed a big SG. Roy looks like he's the real deal, but I didn't have the knowledge, imagination or coyones Paxson did. Sefolosha fits the Bulls big guard needs better than Roy would (because he's a better pairing with Gordon) and Thomas looks like a stud-to-be.

Paxson's moves are going to look good this season, but even better in seasons to come.

Well done, lad.


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> I think we need scoring more than defense. Tyrus is the right pick if he is eventually going to be a power forward (or atleast play more than half his minutes there), but I don't ever see him being a better small forward than Rudy Gay. Rudy Gay is going to be the best player of this draft.


maybe all true. But its not all about pure fit either if you are a GM who likes BPAs

and lets not forget the only thing that dropped Rudy Gay was questions about how competetive he is. If he answers those questions, he may well be the best. But he can't answer those questions in one season, or maybe even until after he signs his second contract. The question really is, will he be more tough minded and get after it harder for the next 10 seasons than Tyrus Thomas? After fame and fortune?
Sometimes as you well know, its not about the best talent...its about who will defeat the man in front of him with his determination. There are so so many players with the best talent who don't measure up in the balls dept.

You can't make this determination until they go thru some wars out there. Who loves to play basketball the most? Who won't be happy unless he wins? Who will be affected by adversity the most? 



> A lot of teams slept on Rudy, including the Bulls, but I'm happy with Tyrus.


I think this is a mischaracterization of what happened. The Bulls didn't sleep on him. I expect what they did was try and bet on the player they think has the most heart. Everyone is well aware of Rudy Gay. Well aware of the talent.
Its certainly not a question of sleeping on him. If this was not a worrysome issue, a number of players taken in front Of Gay would have never been chosen instead if not all of them.

What the Bulls did was value a perceived superior attitude on the court more than pure talent perhaps. They considered the whole package more than people who look at raw talent. Hell.... Rudys been traded already because of this. If Memphis lucks out and Rudy answers the bell in the attitude dept, then of course, they are in the chips.

Like I said earlier, These guys are actually close enough in talent and ability that this question will ultimately be answed by who has the most drive. Who has the neanderthal Gene? without it, Michael Jordan would have been just another talented player who probably wouldn't have won crap 


The Bulls don't reach for players. They take the surest bets. Rudy is actually more of a wildcard than Tyrus because they think they know Tyrus has big balls


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

The ROY said:


> I jumped on the TYrus wagon FIRST....and didn't jump off until when!?


No you didn't. I was first, and it was last december.

I wanted Gay, then Thomas.

Looks like I was right.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

fleetwood macbull said:


> if anybody, its the 'Gay guys' that get to prematurely crow over preseason games:
> 
> Rudy:
> MPG 26
> ...



I wanted Gay, and I repeated it over and over again. I even favored dumping either Noc or Deng for a mid lottery pick so we could get him.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

The Krakken said:


> No you didn't. I was first, and it was last december.
> 
> I wanted Gay, then Thomas.
> 
> Looks like I was right.


Don't remember....but oh well

We STARTED the wagon!


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

The ROY said:


> Don't remember....but oh well
> 
> We STARTED the wagon!


Yup. I remember getting laughed at too, for even SUGGESTING this guy was going to be a player. This was pre-tournament, of course.


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

The Krakken said:


> Yup. I remember getting laughed at too, for even SUGGESTING this guy was going to be a player. This was pre-tournament, of course.


pre-tourney? that's defintely ahead of the game. i remember watching the duke game and after seeing his speed and defensive instincts i hoped the bulls could find a way to get this kid. it reminded me of wade's triple double vs kentucy. all that athleticism and all under control. 

people talk about the difference between men and boys when talking about nba vs ncaa. but people forget there are some ooooold dudes hanging on in hte league and tyrus speed looks to be on that elite level. he's going to have that advantage on alot of people.

then there was that mariotti article around draft time. just say no to thomas! that sealed it for me.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

The guy looks skinnier than he looked in college. It's possible he just doesn't know the places to eat around town. Instead of putting his locker next to PJ Brown maybe they should have put it next to Mike Sweetney. Get that kid some meat on his bones. I kept getting him and Thabo confused. They both look like anemic small forwards.

But yeah, kid is playing well in the preseason. Kudos.


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

That block on Bonner last night is typical .

What's really special about it , and a lot of similar plays he executed during his college season last year ( and in the NCAA's ) is that he just has this incredible timing.

And - he doesn't try and belt the ball into the bleachers. As I said at the time , and I'll say again , his ability to get up and block the ball _but retain possession either for himself or a teammate _ kind of has a throwback look to a Bill Russell type defensive play.

And when he doesn't win possession the first time he just keeps at it and is so quick off his feet at 2nd attempts that its just freakish . 

That freakishness with that desire is a winning mix


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

SausageKingofChicago said:


> That block on Bonner last night is typical .
> 
> What's really special about it , and a lot of similar plays he executed during his college season last year ( and in the NCAA's ) is that he just has this incredible timing.
> 
> ...



...very un-chandler like. good times ahead...


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Raw raw raw raw raw. I expect plenty of heartburn this season.

But I threatened to give up on PaxSkiles if they dare draft him and I am just a goof for having thought that.

The kid is exciting as hell and hungry as hell and I'm glad as hell we have him.


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## 7RINGS? (Sep 28, 2004)

EAT YOUR HEART OUT N.Y.!!!!

We gotta real keeper here!!


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

7RINGS? said:


> EAT YOUR HEART OUT N.Y.!!!!
> 
> We gotta real keeper here!!


Yeah, Tyrus is already better than Eddy Curry, so by virtue, we already won the trade.


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Raw raw raw raw raw. I expect plenty of heartburn this season.
> 
> But I threatened to give up on PaxSkiles if they dare draft him and I am just a goof for having thought that.
> 
> The kid is exciting as hell and hungry as hell and I'm glad as hell we have him.


I expect him to make some absolutely _horrific_ mistakes of aggresion especially as a rookie. Stuff that will leave you shaking your head at both the foolishness and the audacity of the attempts.
Things that will make you go...."Nobody tries that....nobody"
At the same time you will go...."Nobody else has a chance in hell to pull it off either"

I will probably be shaking my head with a smile on my face too


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

fleetwood macbull said:


> I expect him to make some absolutely _horrific_ mistakes of aggresion especially as a rookie. Stuff that will leave you shaking your head at both the foolishness and the audacity of the attempts.
> Things that will make you go...."Nobody tries that....nobody"
> At the same time you will go...."Nobody else has a chance in hell to pull it off either"
> 
> I will probably be shaking my head with a smile on my face too


I think you're right. But the heartening thing about it is that Tyrus seems to be in a perfect situation to make a few of those mistakes. Yeah, Skiles will probably have him on a short leash, but he'll be in there to provide energy and a more athletic dimension, not to run the point or be a primary option on offense. And we should be good enough to win games even while letting him play through at least some mistakes. If they're "good faith" mistakes (ie. trying to be too aggressive, trying to do too much) as opposed to tentative or just plain stupid mistakes, Skiles will be more forgiving. And like you said, it's the former kinds of mistakes I think TT will have more trouble with early on. I can live with that as long as he learns from them.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

RoRo said:


> pre-tourney? that's defintely ahead of the game. i remember watching the duke game and after seeing his speed and defensive instincts i hoped the bulls could find a way to get this kid. it reminded me of wade's triple double vs kentucy. all that athleticism and all under control.
> 
> people talk about the difference between men and boys when talking about nba vs ncaa. but people forget there are some ooooold dudes hanging on in hte league and tyrus speed looks to be on that elite level. he's going to have that advantage on alot of people.
> 
> then there was that mariotti article around draft time. just say no to thomas! that sealed it for me.


I think some people forget that before his injury last year, as early as January, Thomas was being talked up as a lottery pick. He had an absolutely monster game against a UConn team with three first round draft picks in their front court, and nearly put a triple double (17 points, 9 rebounds and 9 blocks) against Tennessee a couple weeks later. The NCAA's certainly improved Thomas' stock but he was going to 10 regardless, IMO.


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## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

I'll go ahead and add HKF to this thread, as he claims Gerald Wallace is the best case scenario for Tyrus Thomas.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

ShuHanGuanYu said:


> I'll go ahead and add HKF to this thread, as he claims Gerald Wallace is the best case scenario for Tyrus Thomas.


Don't forget o.atlhawksfan, he claims Eddie Robinson/Marcus Haislip to be the best case scenario for him.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I think he'll be the Richard Jefferson of power forwards.


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

ViciousFlogging said:


> I think you're right. But the heartening thing about it is that Tyrus seems to be in a perfect situation to make a few of those mistakes. Yeah, Skiles will probably have him on a short leash, but he'll be in there to provide energy and a more athletic dimension, not to run the point or be a primary option on offense. And we should be good enough to win games even while letting him play through at least some mistakes. If they're "good faith" mistakes (ie. trying to be too aggressive, trying to do too much) as opposed to tentative or just plain stupid mistakes, Skiles will be more forgiving. And like you said, it's the former kinds of mistakes I think TT will have more trouble with early on. I can live with that as long as he learns from them.


The one nice thing about Tyrus Thomas and the Bulls is that the way he plays is exactly the way everyone else on our team doesn't, so even if he's making mistakes due to recklessness, we can probably afford it if he's doing it while trying to go to the basket. And Tyrus seems like a guy who'll consistently bring defensive intensity, so I'm guessing that'll keep him from getting too far into Skiles' doghouse at any one point.


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## Chris Bosh #4 (Feb 18, 2005)

I loved Tyrus going into the draft, as a Raps fan. I wanted Tyrus or Bargnani come draft day.

To me both Bargnani, and Tyrus are going to become big stars in this league.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

fleetwood macbull said:


> I expect him to make some absolutely _horrific_ mistakes of aggresion especially as a rookie. Stuff that will leave you shaking your head at both the foolishness and the audacity of the attempts.
> Things that will make you go...."Nobody tries that....nobody"
> At the same time you will go...."Nobody else has a chance in hell to pull it off either"
> 
> I will probably be shaking my head with a smile on my face too


Well put! I feel the same way.


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## Babble-On (Sep 28, 2005)

Before the draft, I basically decided that I was undecided on who I preferred between Thomas, Bargnani, and Aldridge since I felt that I hadn't seen enough of Tyrus and definitely not enough of Bargnani to take a firm stand on any of those guys. I decided that I was gonna defer to Pax's judgement, and so far, things have looked good.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Isn't it a little premature for this type of thread?

Just saying.. this might be the kiss of death.


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

TheATLien said:


> Isn't it a little premature for this type of thread?
> 
> Just saying.. this might be the kiss of death.


feel free to pop back in around the all star break


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

TheATLien said:


> Isn't it a little premature for this type of thread?
> 
> Just saying.. this might be the kiss of death.


I don't believe in the jinx or kiss of death or whatever, but yes, it's way too early for "I told you so" threads about a rookie playing well (not even dominating) in preseason games. 

This is afterall, a number 2 pick. Anything less from Tyrus in these preseason games would have me worried.


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## the-asdf-man (Jun 29, 2006)

ShuHanGuanYu said:


> I'll go ahead and add HKF to this thread, as he claims Gerald Wallace is the best case scenario for Tyrus Thomas.


who is that in ur avatar? i cant place him... is it He Jin?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

His 1-4, 5 rebounds, 2 assists, 3 TO, 3 PF in 16 minute game makes me want to say I was wrong.


At least he's cheaper on the payroll than Chandler.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> His 1-4, 5 rebounds, 2 assists, 3 TO, 3 PF in 16 minute game makes me want to say I was wrong.
> 
> 
> At least he's cheaper on the payroll than Chandler.


I have a feeling you are just trying to get a rise out of someone, but I'll take the bait.


Compare TT's first NBA game to Tyson's:

Tyson's 0-2, 0 rebounds, 0 assists, 0 steals and 0 blocks in 6 minutes (1 point on 1-2 FT) didn't exactly set the world on fire. Tyrus' block on Shaq alone was more of an impact on the game than the entire net effect Tyson's debut combined. That was one of 2 blocks, plus a steal and 4 points that didn't make it into your stat line.

Of course, what's past is past and Tyson's 2001 debut doesn't matter much anymore. Plus, that was limited minutes, and not much of a fair indicator of what he could do.

I guess the pertiment question is whether we are better off with Tyrus or Tyson (and, as you point out, that salary).

So how did the 5th year vet fair last night, -vs- Tyrus' rookie debut?

Well, in 28 minutes, Tyson managed 6 points (just 2 more than TT in 12 more minutes), 9 rebounds (4 more than TT for the 7 footer, 5th year journeyman in 12 more minutes) and 1 assist (1 fewer than TT), 0 steals (1 fewer), 0 blocks (2 fewer). 

On a positive note, all that NBA experience and extra work this summer paid off, in that Chandler only turned the ball over 2 times (1 fewer than the ultra raw Thomas in his league debut) before fouling out with his 6th PF (3 more fouls than TT).

Overall, I think the rookie outplayed the seasoned "this year I mean it" vet in fewer minutes (minutes limited by Thomas' broken nose -- TT was playing well enough that he likely would have stayed in longer, but for the cheap shot injury).


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> I have a feeling you are just trying to get a rise out of someone, but I'll take the bait.
> 
> 
> Compare TT's first NBA game to Tyson's:
> ...


Not trying to get a rise out of anyone. I do think it's telling that you compare him to a player you make out to be a bust. Not to mention we could have both players. But the comparison is fair (I made it myself) - they bring the same kinds of things to the game at this point that you can measure with a box score.

Seems to me the purpose of this thread is... well, you tell me 

In any case, my position on using the #2 pick (yeah, treaded down, blah blah) on a player who's a project hasn't changed, and Thomas' play hasn't changed my position. 

However, he may be better than I thought he'd be, which is something. Remember, I likened him to ERob - mindboggling athleticism that shows up in flashy occaisional plays, but requires a LOT of work on fundamentals. 

The best news of all (for him) is that PJ Brown is just awful, and his minutes really should go to Thomas by default.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> Not trying to get a rise out of anyone. I do think it's telling that you compare him to a player you make out to be a bust. Not to mention we could have both players. But the comparison is fair (I made it myself) - they bring the same kinds of things to the game at this point that you can measure with a box score.
> 
> Seems to me the purpose of this thread is... well, you tell me
> 
> ...


You're seriously comparing Tyrus Thomas to a guy who averaged .3 blocks and 2.7 rebounds over his NBA career? Okay. For what it's worth, Monta Ellis also has mind-boggling athleticism and needs to work on fundamentals. It takes a whole hell of a lot more than that to make a good comp.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Of course Tyrus looks raw. 

One just has to believe that the same desire that got him from on the bench and off the radar at LSU to start the season last year to starting and playing very well in the big dance and in the NBA lotto will drive him to improve on the NBA level as well.

I think that desire is the main difference between Tyrus and EROB. (their games are different as well of course, but both are blessed with tremendous physical gifts) Of course, he's still very young and impressionable so his attitude can change for the worse. That's where the good environment that Paxson has created here should help him. Of course, I'm not sure if Skiles is really a good developmental coach for a big man, but whatever.

The Bulls seem mixed between "win now" and "win later" and this lack of focus might hurt the team long term. I hope this "hedge your bets" path pays off. If Tyrus can end up being a real contributor by the end of the season, I think we can make a run this year. If not, its "win later," IMO.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

kukoc4ever said:


> The Bulls seem mixed between "win now" and "win later" and this lack of focus might hurt the team long term.




Are the two mutually exclusive?


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

I figure I ought to acknowledge that, indeed, "I was wrong about Tyrus Thomas". So wrong in fact, that I used my 1500th post to say so...


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> Are the two mutually exclusive?


Its tough enough to win a NBA title when you have a laser focus on winning this season.

Doing both? Not impossible, no. Seems pretty difficult though.

We'll see soon enough if Paxson can pull it off. This is the Cap Space season we've been wating years for.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

kukoc4ever said:


> Its tough enough to win a NBA title when you have a laser focus on winning this season.
> 
> Doing both? Not impossible, no. Seems pretty difficult though.
> 
> We'll see soon enough if Paxson can pull it off. This is the Cap Space season we've been wating years for.


2.5 years to be exact. With 2 playoff appearances in between. So it wasn't a Krausian-post-dynasty wasteland type of wait.

And at the end of that wait, I never expected we'd be a contender for the championship in the very first year (though that is exactly what I think we are, much to my surprise and great happiness). 

We are looking great for the short and long term. That, to me, is very exciting.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

kukoc4ever said:


> Its tough enough to win a NBA title when you have a laser focus on winning this season.
> 
> Doing both? Not impossible, no. Seems pretty difficult though.


I agree it's difficult. It's tough to build a good team for the future and it's tough to build a team to win a championship. However, over the years you've seen some franchises that are better than others at remaining competitive.

Additionally, it seems to me that you have been pretty critical of the Bulls not wanting to win now, but rather waiting to improve. Now that it seems that they are in win now mode, as you have frequently pointed out with the additions of Wallace and PJ, are you somehow upset that they aren't building for the future? Do you think a plan to have a team mixed with some seasoned vets and quite a few young guys is somehow faulty because it's neither totally committed to winning now nor totally committed to winning later?

I'm trying to understand the critique, if one is being offered.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> I agree it's difficult. It's tough to build a good team for the future and it's tough to build a team to win a championship. However, over the years you've seen some franchises that are better than others at remaining competitive.


Competitive? Yes. Winning NBA titles? Which ones in recent years have done this? I guess the Spurs would be on the only ones that were able to do both at the same time with Duncan. They had some of the best big men the game has ever seen to work with.





> Now that it seems that they are in win now mode, as you have frequently pointed out with the additions of Wallace and PJ, are you somehow upset that they aren't building for the future?


I'm not sure if Paxson really is in "win the title now" mode.
The Tyrus draft pick does not signal that, IMO. The Chandler dump does not signal that, IMO. The lack of a consolidation trade (still time to see what happens there) does not signal that, IMO. The Wallace signing does... it better given we had to wait years and suffer through regressions (a tumble from being the #3 team the East) in order to sign him. 





> Do you think a plan to have a team mixed with some seasoned vets and quite a few young guys is somehow faulty because it's neither totally committed to winning now nor totally committed to winning later?


It depends what the goal is. 
Is the goal for the Chicago Bulls to win the title this season?
Is the goal for the Chicago Bulls to create an environment to nurture raw young lotto picks and win the title in 3 years? (year 7 on the job for Paxson)
Is it both? That’s some hubris if it is. Good luck. We've already been blessed with plenty.


(all this being said, i'm sure its going to be a fun season, and given that the NBA is entertainment, that counts for a lot!  )


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

kukoc4ever said:


> Competitive? Yes. Winning NBA titles? Which ones in recent years have done this? I guess the Spurs would be on the only ones that were able to do both at the same time with Duncan. They had some of the best big men the game has ever seen to work with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is where I think I have the biggest problem with your line of thinking. On the one hand, you seem to think that being "competitive" isn't that big a deal and that winning championships is. On the other hand, you very frequently bring up this #3 team in the East refrain as though it was a major accomplishment. That team, in the big picture sense, wasn't significantly more successful to me than last year's squad. Both got bounced in the first round of the playoffs. Sure, two years ago the Bulls were the #3 team in the East, but were they even remotely considered contenders? I don't think so. Are they this year? Perhaps. It's obviously early, but plenty of media types think so, for whatever that is worth.

So what is your preferred GM philosophy? Win a championship now? Always be competitive? Build for the future? If you see some of Pax's moves as being to win now, and others to make the team good later, is that an inherently bad thing? Is it possible for a team to pursue both short-term and long-term success simultaneously? I'd argue that it is. Is it tough? Sure. But I like the efforts Pax has made to do so and expect them to be fruitful.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> On the other hand, you very frequently bring up this #3 team in the East refrain as though it was a major accomplishment. That team, in the big picture sense, wasn't significantly more successful to me than last year's squad. Both got bounced in the first round of the playoffs.


You are ignoring the injury to our leading scorer and our starting small forward in the #3 in the East year. Yes, both teams were bounced out of the 1st round of the playoffs. The #3 in the East team was one of the youngest in the league, on an upward trend, and would have defeated the Wizards in a 7 game series if healthy IMO. 

The .500 group was a flawed but scrappy team that really had little chance to accomplish anything of note last season or in the future, especially when you remove Chandler from the equation. The additions of Wallace and Thomas change this of course.



> So what is your preferred GM philosophy? Win a championship now? Always be competitive? Build for the future?


The goal should be to win a NBA championship. The sooner the better.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

kukoc4ever said:


> The goal should be to win a NBA championship. The sooner the better.


Yeah, but there is not one team in the NBA that has a better than coin-flip chance of winning the title. So I guess you could be unhappy with your chances no matter what team you happen to be a fan of.

The Bulls have a decent chance to win it all this year (? 9:1 sounds about right), and an even better chance to win next year and the year after that. Chances are they won't win it all, but the odds aren't that bad. 

If the Bulls front line shows the weariness of age in the second of back-to-back games on the road, they have the young legs of Tyrus Thomas to help bring energy. In the playoffs they won't play back-to-back games, and the Bulls have the talent and experience to beat anyone if they hit their outside shots, rebound and play great team defense.

In any case, it is quite likely that they will have a winning record this regular season, a reasonable seeding for the playoffs, an exciting post-season and a nice lottery pick in next summer's draft. 

So the glass is at least 80% full for the short AND long term.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

In response to the topic, I didn't think he'd have too much effect on our games so quickly, but then again, I didn't think he would get so banged up just as quickly. The guy got injured not once but twice.


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## InfinitePulse (Nov 3, 2006)

Thomas brings attitude to the team that might not have been as prevalent before... 
He'll fill in for Tyson's chest thumping role...


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

welcome to the board, InfinitePulse. Pull up a chair and stay a while! :banana:


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> Not trying to get a rise out of anyone. I do think it's telling that you compare him to a player you make out to be a bust. Not to mention we could have both players. But the comparison is fair (I made it myself) - they bring the same kinds of things to the game at this point that you can measure with a box score.





What's telling? You are the one who brought up Tyson and his contract, not me...



DaBullz said:


> His 1-4, 5 rebounds, 2 assists, 3 TO, 3 PF in 16 minute game makes me want to say I was wrong.
> 
> 
> At least he's cheaper on the payroll than Chandler.


I was just responding to that. You wanted to compare Tyrus the rook to Tyson the Big Contract, and I did just that -- I compared them.


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

Bump.

Tyrus came along a lot more quickly in the Tigers run through the NCAA last year 

Similarly this year in the pros he has had a quick learning curve when given meaningful minutes with Nocioni going down and he has produced and been a contributor when he's on the floor 

Will be interestting to see how he responds to playoff basketball


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