# If we S & T Joe Johnson...



## MrFloppy (Jun 25, 2005)

If he wants to be a loser on the Hawks because it gives him the ability to be the undisputed "man". Let him go, we're about winning not about that self glorification crap.

If he signs, match it. Trade him later to the highest bidder. If the Hawks will Sign and Trade do it within reason. Joe Johnson is valuable lets not forget that, we need value in return. JJ is restricted the ball is in our court.

The Hawks are $33 million under the cap if its set at $50 million. They have cap room to sign a couple of max players and left overs. JJ is a building block for them. They could also within reason grab an Eddy Curry or Tyson Chandler. The Hawks will pay alot because they have to. They can sign JJ, Curry and another decent player this offseason without any real hassle.

The Suns have a salary problem in the long term and trading Joe Johnson could save alot of troubles.

So far if Joe Johnson is excluded from Cap Calculations...


```
Active Players for 2005/06 
Shawn Marion $13,770,000
Steve Nash  $9,625,000 
Kurt Thomas $6,620,062
Jim Jackson $2,700,000
Amare Stoudemire $2,589,022 
Jake Voskuhl $1,937,500
Leandrinho Barbosa $930,600
Dijon Thompson  $0 
TOTALS: $35,583,162
```
Also add in Eisley's buy out believed to represent about 4.4 million on the Salary Cap in 2005/06 and Raja Bell's Deal worth about $5 million in 2005/06 and we are under the cap. With that added $9.4 million we sit nicely at $44,983,162 - and that is without using a MLE exception on Raja Bell. 

Thats all assuming we take back no salary from Atlanta but of course we would. Would Atlanta give Josh Childress and Josh Smith for Joe Johnson? I'm not sure either way but perhaps we could get them to take Jake Voshukl as well? Even with Childress and Smith's salaries combined of $4,042,560 we are still only at $49,025,722.


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## Scipio (Feb 18, 2004)

Why would Atlanta give you Smith and Chandler when they can have JJ just by signing him? That's what Hawks will try. If you match it then fine. Money will spend on someone else or saved to the next off season. It's not like we really mus have JJ...we're just looking for an addition to the squad. 

If you're talking about sign and trade it's Harrington that could available.


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## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

No way for a S&T, and no way Atlanta lets go of Smith. But why are we talking about this. Who really believes Joe would leave for the NBA Cellar dweller?


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Apparently, he heard Joe wants to be a Hawk. He posted something in the FA/trade/rumors thread with no link.

Which is where I said..


I don't buy this unless there's a link. He should know he's the future of this team with Amare when Nash is done, and Marion's deal is done. We've said that plenty of times. Screw signing and trading him. Even if there is slightest chance he wants to go. Still match. We need Joe Johnson.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

If Atlanta can get Joe Johnson, I don't think Atlanta will be in the cellar for much longer. Y'all are Suns fan, you know his potential more than anyone. If you have Joe Johnson distributing the ball to Josh Smith & Marvin Williams, and then if Atlanta can draft a big man in 2006, I think they will be a playoff team by 06 or 07 because Josh Smith & Marvin Williams are going to be stars and JJ is a 18/5/5 guy.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Yeah, I agree, TheATLien with what you said.


I posted this in the other thread...I found this

Apparently, it was said on some radio station, that someone talked to JJ extensively and said he didn't like how Q got his money and was "left out to dry" so to speak.

But someone else posts in there saying nba sources say, not that he talked to him. I won't believe it unless it's really reported. Even so I say match anyway. We showed him this yr how much of a mistake it was.

http://forums.espn.go.com/espn/thread?forumID=37&threadID=2049345&lastPostID=11757318


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## MrFloppy (Jun 25, 2005)

dissonance19 said:


> Yeah, I agree, TheATLien with what you said.
> 
> 
> I posted this in the other thread...I found this
> ...


The report included that *he did not want to play with Amare and Shawn*. Simple because he wants to be more the centre of attention. He is a loser and not a winner. He cares more about himself looking good more than winning.

http://www.phxsuns.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=4927


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

How legit was this report that JJ wants to be a Hawk?

I will believe it when I see it.


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## MrFloppy (Jun 25, 2005)

TheATLien said:


> How legit was this report that JJ wants to be a Hawk?
> 
> I will believe it when I see it.


Doesn't it strikes you that he is still going to sign the offer sheet from the Hawks even though he can get a bigger contract from us in the way of extra year, bigger increases etc?

Its not all about money. He wants to be the leader of a team.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

MrFloppy said:


> The report included that *he did not want to play with Amare and Shawn*. Simple because he wants to be more the centre of attention. He is a loser and not a winner. He cares more about himself looking good more than winning.
> 
> http://www.phxsuns.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=4927


Ah, so I forgot that. They can read it at that link I left. Even so, if we locked him up last yr he woulda been with us no matter what if he didn't want to play with Shawn and Amare.. But I still don't buy it. It's from a radiostation report. Joe also just doesn't seem to be that type of guy if you heard him speak. Even if it is true, I say match. We cannot lose Joe. We would be screwed. I swear if this is true....oh man. I'm going to be super pissed.


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## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

You're just using useless hearsay as your sources of this, Floppy. Get me something 100% confirmed, and I'll discuss this matter more.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

We were only gonna match the 5 yrs not 6, so he would barely get more money. But even if it's about being a leader. Then I still match. WE CANNOT LOSE JOE JOHNSON! :curse:


Another thing, if you have heard Joe Johnson talk, what this guy is saying what Joe said does not sound like JJ at all. He always had this selflessness to him. He just doesn't strike me as someone who wants that. He's too quiet to be a leader.


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## MrFloppy (Jun 25, 2005)

dissonance19 said:


> We were only gonna match the 5 yrs not 6, so he would barely get more money. But even if it's about being a leader. Then I still match. WE CANNOT LOSE JOE JOHNSON! :curse:
> 
> 
> Another thing, if you have heard Joe Johnson talk, what this guy is saying what Joe said does not sound like JJ at all. He always had this selflessness to him. He just doesn't strike me as someone who wants that. He's too quiet to be a leader.


Honestly, I don't hear JJ much as I live in Australia and our NBA Coverage is nothing short of pathetic. :curse: If he is so quiet maybe his agent has him by the balls. :curse:


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

And if you read that said the radio station guy makes mistakes saying..


http://www.phxsuns.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=4927




> Gambo said he was told last night that a sign-and-trade with JJ is almost impossible, because of BYC issues, a trade kicker, and because JJ couldn't be traded after being signed for 60 days (Gambo isn't the best source of these types of rules though).
> 
> Gambo also says that if the Suns keep JJ that they won't even use all of the 1.7 million exception to sign a big man, because of the salary implications.


Then some other poster says.



> Wooooo, wait a minute, Gambo is crapping, these rules are if you sign, not if you sign and trade. He must have been talking to someone in the bar. In addition, Atl has cap room so if there aren't players the Suns like, they can get a trade exception for JJ, ala KMart to Denver.


I don't know what to think. Nothings credible.


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## MrFloppy (Jun 25, 2005)

dissonance19 said:


> And if you read that said the radio station guy makes mistakes saying..
> 
> 
> http://www.phxsuns.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=4927
> ...


Perhaps Gambo was referring more to signing him ourselves or matching an offer without immediately trading him, unlike would happen in a S & T. Because if that is the case he is correct. Because an option would be to match Atlanta if he signs then ship him to someone else or even back to Atlanta.

I also don't want to loose JJ but if its correct I would prefer to S & T than match. I want players who are commited and commited to this team.

I think its fair to suggest even by the 60million/6 year offer than Sarver certainly isn't Mark Cuban.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

MrFloppy said:


> Perhaps Gambo was referring more to signing him ourselves or matching an offer without immediately trading him, unlike would happen in a S & T. Because if that is the case he is correct. Because an option would be to match Atlanta if he signs then ship him to someone else or even back to Atlanta.
> 
> I also don't want to loose JJ but if its correct I would prefer to S & T than match. I want players who are commited and commited to this team.
> 
> I think its fair to suggest even by the 60million/6 year offer than Sarver certainly isn't Mark Cuban.


That's true. But I don't think get JJ gets it. He's part of the future of this team when Nash is done, and Marion is traded or let go when his deal is done. He would be 28. His agent has to be feeding him all this crap, if its true. 

Yeah, that was a bad offer we made. Hopefully, the bball minds in FO convince him it's worth it if we keep him. I don't think JJ will become a disruption. He's just not that kinda guy. Even if its true with these comments, I don't think we can get someone who I'd want from Atlanta. I'd rather keep him.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Reading on this thread. Everyone seems to be point how unreliable Gambo(guy on the radio) has been. So, I hope he's got wrong news again.


http://www.phxsuns.net/index.php?na...start=50&sid=139add75e3e06bb1939d5adfb7bd33ee



This is a good post here.




> Heres the conclusion i have come to:
> 
> When Gambo said JJ was furious over the way the suns handled the contract situation, i tend to believe its JJs agent putting that out there for obvious reasons. It was just posturing:
> 
> ...


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## Tiz (May 9, 2005)

This sounds more like Gambo grabbing theories out of thin air or with the assistance of an agent to heat up a bidding war. I don't put much credibility in it at all.

Plus it makes no sense why a competitve player would want to bolt a championship contender for a consistent lottery contender.

Also, these supposed comments are so out of character for what we have seen from JJ in the past. He is a quiet and reserved guy and has made it clear how muich he likes the team and his team mates.

One thing that really makes this look fabricated is the claims against Amare and Marion. It is not like either of these guys are ball hogs. If you look at the teams shot distribution for last year it looks like this:

Amare = 16.7
Marion = 15.9
JJ = 14.4
Q = 13.2
Nash = 11.4

It is a pretty equal distribution and it is not like you have one guy putting up all the shots and the others looking for scraps. Plus JJ knows he is the backup PG and probably the PG of the future for this squad, which means even more involvement on the floor.

This rumor from Gumbo makes no sense.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I had a quote from Joe Johnson before during the season and he said he's going for the biggest offer. It has nothing to do with loyalty or liking who he plays with, but he's going for the money and he has a right too. No need to call him selfish, because he said it to Sean Deveney at the time.

His game will not flourish in the system in Phoenix though and that is correct.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Unless they changed this in the new CBA...

Joe Johnson has already signed the max offer sheet from the Hawks, correct? If so, then Phoenix is not allowed to sign-and-trade him to Atlanta anymore. Furthermore, he cannot be traded to the Hawks under any circumstances until one year passes from the time he signed the offer sheet.

And Floppy, already admitting he doesn't get much NBA in Australia, seems to be way, way off in his assessment of Joe Johnson's character.


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## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

Nope, there will be no sign and trade unless JJ can be convinced not to sign the offer sheet. I don't believe anything can be officially signed until July 22. A more realistic scenario, if JJ truly does want to leave the Suns, is that we match the offer and then look to trade him mid-season if he still wants to go.


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## Kekai (Jan 12, 2005)

Joe Johnson is not going anywhere period. Im locking this thread. :biggrin:....just kidding.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Rawse said:


> Unless they changed this in the new CBA...
> 
> Joe Johnson has already signed the max offer sheet from the Hawks, correct?


Yeah, he hasn't signed it but intends to July 22nd. Which is why word was out we intend to match. Nothing is actually official yet. Ray Allen could spurn the Sonics for another team if he really wanted to.


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## MrFloppy (Jun 25, 2005)

Rawse said:


> Unless they changed this in the new CBA...
> 
> Joe Johnson has already signed the max offer sheet from the Hawks, correct? If so, then Phoenix is not allowed to sign-and-trade him to Atlanta anymore. Furthermore, he cannot be traded to the Hawks under any circumstances until one year passes from the time he signed the offer sheet.
> 
> And Floppy, already admitting he doesn't get much NBA in Australia, seems to be way, way off in his assessment of Joe Johnson's character.


Well I do know one thing about the NBA and thats players can't sign until after the 22 July so JJ hasn't signed. So a S & T is still possible.


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## deannahum (Aug 7, 2003)

if JJ really wants to be a Hawk... i say lets sign&trade him for Al Harrington and a pick, and sign Arvydas Macijauskas as our starting SG... he can fill for JJ really qucik... he is a better shooter than JJ and he can make some great plays from pick&roll and nice passes on the break.

I hope he won't make a mistake (Macijauskas) and sign with the Hornets


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## phxsunshine (Jul 26, 2005)

MrFloppy said:


> If he wants to be a loser on the Hawks because it gives him the ability to be the undisputed "man". Let him go, we're about winning not about that self glorification crap.
> 
> 
> > omigosh!!! its not even about that. its about him making the most money he can to provide for his family. why settle for 50 million when he can make 70 plus? he never said he didn't want to play for phx. but how far will they go to get him? you saw what boston did to him so he just took that as learning experience and now he ain't playing with them. its like they think he's bluffin' or something, he knows he's good and he knows he can take his talent some place else and get more money and respect.


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## Kekai (Jan 12, 2005)

phxsunshine said:


> MrFloppy said:
> 
> 
> > If he wants to be a loser on the Hawks because it gives him the ability to be the undisputed "man". Let him go, we're about winning not about that self glorification crap.
> ...


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## phxsunshine (Jul 26, 2005)

exactly!


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