# Yi to sit out 2007-2008 Season



## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

> Training camp is 12 weeks away. Yi's camp insists that he won't sign with the Bucks and that the 19-year-old is prepared to play no professional basketball for a year to make himself eligible to re-enter the draft in 2008, unless the Bucks trade his draft rights. Milwaukee --- skeptical that Yi and Chinese basketball officials are prepared to hold him out of so much top-level competition leading into the '08 Beijing Olympics -- insists that it still won't even consider trade offers and remains hopeful that Yi will soon accept their invitation to visit the city and the team's home base.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2933645

Now watch the Bucks stink and draft Yi again. First player ever drafted by the same team twice.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

The league should really compensate the Bucks if this happens... I mean, I know they took the risk in drafting him, but you can't let international players strong-arm the draft process like this. The point of the draft is that you get assigned to the team that takes you... if Yi wanted to avoid this he could have come in later as a free agent and negotiated a nice landing spot. I know this re-entering the draft thing is in the CBA, but it doesn't seem particularly fair...


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

The Bucks have made a big mistake. The longer they wait to trade Yi's rights the less they will get for him.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

If they lose Mo Williams to Miami, maybe we could do:

Bulls Trade:

Chris Duhon
Thabo Sefolosha

Bucks Trade:

Yi Jianlian
Dan Gadzuric


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Mebarak said:


> If they lose Mo Williams to Miami, maybe we could do:
> 
> Bulls Trade:
> 
> ...


Problem: Dan Gadzuric is a terrible basketball player.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

The Bucks will make the playoffs with or without Yi

Without any significant injuries that is


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## Bulldozer (Jul 11, 2006)

Dornado said:


> The league should really compensate the Bucks if this happens... I mean, I know they took the risk in drafting him, but you can't let international players strong-arm the draft process like this. The point of the draft is that you get assigned to the team that takes you... if Yi wanted to avoid this he could have come in later as a free agent and negotiated a nice landing spot. I know this re-entering the draft thing is in the CBA, but it doesn't seem particularly fair...


 Yi truly should honor the process, however, if the Bucks wanted to do what was best for their team, they should have taken everything into consideration before they picked. If the Bucks took the responsible route, and realized that Yi was a bad fit (all around; due to his camp not wanting him to play there), they would have selected the next best "hassle free" player.

The Bucks deserve what they are getting if Yi holds out, and they absolutely do NOT deserve any sort of compensation. I've not so sympathy towards a stubborn, unrealistic organization. The Bucks really should trade Yi to the best bidder, and the longer they wait the worse return they will get. It would be downright foolish to lose the #5 pick for nothing.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Bucks are going to be bad again. Who are they depending on Andrew Bogut?


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Bulldozer said:


> Yi truly should honor the process, however, if the Bucks wanted to do what was best for their team, they should have taken everything into consideration before they picked. If the Bucks took the responsible route, and realized that Yi was a bad fit (all around; due to his camp not wanting him to play there), they would have selected the next best "hassle free" player.
> 
> The Bucks deserve what they are getting if Yi holds out, and they absolutely do NOT deserve any sort of compensation. I've not so sympathy towards a stubborn, unrealistic organization. The Bucks really should trade Yi to the best bidder, and the longer they wait the worse return they will get. It would be downright foolish to lose the #5 pick for nothing.


I agree it was a major foux pas on the Bucks part.... I guess I just know a lot of Bucks fans and feel bad for them.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

Durant should really do the same thing.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

HKF said:


> Bucks are going to be bad again. Who are they depending on Andrew Bogut?



What wrong with Bogut? He's a double-double guy.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> What wrong with Bogut? He's a double-double guy.


He sucks.


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Chops said:


> He sucks.


You guys could sure use somebody like him. Noah's not gonna cut it, and ben Wallace is declining.


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## Bulldozer (Jul 11, 2006)

Hustle said:


> Durant should really do the same thing.


Don't know if you were being serious or not, but just to entertain that thought: It's far worse when a Steve Francis, Eli Manning and other American born athletes pull this kind of maneuver. Yi's case is unique and complex...being a foreign Chinese talent, that has to appease his government first and foremost, really complicates the whole process of just entering the league. Why would any team make things even rougher, by going against _*whatever*_ that? It's unfortunate and a shame that Yi couldn't honor the draft, but this isn't a shocker, and the league was already put on notice as far as who the preferred teams were. Bad suggestion (comparison) with Durant, its totally different.

I wanted Yi on the Bulls more than Noah, Hawes and the other players likely to be @ #9, including Brandan Wright. But if I knew Yi didn't want to be on the Bulls, there's no way I'd take him, and if I did, its for BPA & trade purposes. The Bucks were silly to think they can convince Yi to stay, even if they thought Chicago wasn't that far for him to travel to. Just a stupid and unnecessary risk on the Bucks end.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

o.iatlhawksfan said:


> You guys could sure use somebody like him. Noah's not gonna cut it, and ben Wallace is declining.


It doesn't really have to do with the Bulls, whatsoever. Hell, we could use anyone with a pulse down on the block. I just don't think he's very good, especially after his major league talk after the draft and his overall draft position.


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## BeZerker2008 (Jun 29, 2006)

Why feel bad for the Bucks? They chose this player knowing that Yi wouldn't play for them and still decide to draft him. If Yi decides to wait the year then the Bucks wasted a top pick in a deep draft for nothing. The Bucks being as stubborn as they are, are not dealing him in hopes he will play. 

Yi might want to play regardless but his people don't want him in that market. Either way it's good for us in the east as the Bucks will go in unchanged (much, if at all) and will suck.


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

#6 pick, btw..

If it happens, it just sucks.
How's this gonna look for Stern?
I don't know what Americans are really like, but I know the kind of reaction I'd expect from English people - "Bloody foreigners eh, think they're too good for us, bunch of soddin' wankers, *grumble grumble casual racism grumble* "

Yes, the Bucks shouldn't have drafted him, but this just sounds illegal. I was under the impression 1st round picks have guaranteed contracts? How does Yi not get assigned to one?

Noticed a few new posts appeared since I clicked Reply, haven't looked at em yet (in case someone's said much the same thing)


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

I think this will work itself out. Thats my gut feeling.


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

different_13 said:


> #6 pick, btw..
> 
> If it happens, it just sucks.
> How's this gonna look for Stern?
> ...


I think teams are merely drafting the rights to sign a player, not a player outright.

It's called a draft, but the league gives draftees plenty of opportunities to influence the process. 

The holdout usually occurs when one team fails to recognize those not-so-subtle hints and then fails to sell a draftee on their team/city.

If the Bucks were so sure that Yi would love playing for them in Milwaukee, then they should've given their best sales pitch before the draft.

Instead they thought owning the exclusive rights to sign him for a year would be enough leverage to convince him. Their mistake.


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## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

GB said:


> I think this will work itself out. Thats my gut feeling.


Could be, Yi's representation might be doing this to establish future credibility.
They'll let Yi play, but take them seriously next time...or else!

Then again this is the next 4-5 years in his career (since the Bucks could extend his rookie deal).


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## o.iatlhawksfan (Mar 3, 2006)

Yi better be the read deal, after all of this!


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

What a douche. Still, I assume this is more the Chinese government than Yi pulling the strings. I hate when guys do this. It's just a few seasons. Just leave after your rookie deal if you need out so badly. Otherwise, just play pro hoops somewhere else. 

This, consequently, is why I root for the Chargers now. I'd like nothing more to see Eli keep on sucking to high heaven while the Chargers play well.


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

Bulldozer said:


> Yi truly should honor the process, however, if the Bucks wanted to do what was best for their team, they should have taken everything into consideration before they picked. If the Bucks took the responsible route, and realized that Yi was a bad fit (all around; due to his camp not wanting him to play there), they would have selected the next best "hassle free" player.
> 
> The Bucks deserve what they are getting if Yi holds out, and they absolutely do NOT deserve any sort of compensation. I've not so sympathy towards a stubborn, unrealistic organization. The Bucks really should trade Yi to the best bidder, and the longer they wait the worse return they will get. It would be downright foolish to lose the #5 pick for nothing.


I agree...the Bucks knew it in the beginning. If the Bucks were to compensated, the Bulls should have been compensated for the Jay Williams situation. It was the player's choice to ride the bike.

Just trade him to Chicago for next year pick, Safo, and someone else.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

One thing we should keep in mind is that this is not a matter of a draftee and his agent. This is a matter of a draftee and his (totalitarian) government. A player, even a young one, can tell his agent what to do, so the player is ultimately responsible for how the process is handled. Yi can't tell his government what to do.

One other thing. The Chinese made it very clear they didn't want the Bucks to take Yi. When the Bucks drafted Yi anyway, they effectively insulted the Chinese. Anyone who has done business there will tell you that they don't handle insults well. If the Bucks think that they're going to win this one, they're dreaming.


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

transplant said:


> One thing we should keep in mind is that this is not a matter of a draftee and his agent. This is a matter of a draftee and his (totalitarian) government. A player, even a young one, can tell his agent what to do, so the player is ultimately responsible for how the process is handled. Yi can't tell his government what to do.
> 
> One other thing. The Chinese made it very clear they didn't want the Bucks to take Yi. When the Bucks drafted Yi anyway, they effectively insulted the Chinese. Anyone who has done business there will tell you that they don't handle insults well. If the Bucks think that they're going to win this one, they're dreaming.


You might have a point...the Bucks shot them on the foot.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

PD said:


> You might have a point...the Bucks shot them on the foot.


On a scale of 1 to 10, in terms of patience, Americans are a -1 and the Chinese are an 11. It isn't even a fair fight.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

It's also possible that Milwaukee was only able to draft Yi at No. 6 because Yi's (China's) demands scared Boston(Seattle) and Atlanta off of drafting him. So even if Yi HADN'T made demands, Milwaukee may not have wound up with him, because he may have been drafted higher.

Flip side is, in drafting Yi, Milwaukee may have screwed us, if Yi was higher on Pax's board than Noah.

Either way, I have trouble feeling sorry for Milwaukee in all of this. They knew what they were getting into when they made the pick.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

at the end of the day, it's yi's loss; there'll still be other chinese players who'll want to play in the league, milwaukee will survive as a franchise and the league will move on, WITHOUT yi, the unproven one.

maybe he's fine getting the big yen playing in the chinese leagues.

hey, micheal jordan retired too, right?


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I think Stern should ban Yi from playing in the NBA for something like 5 years.

Get a message across.

On the other hand, I think the Bulls should pitch an offer for Wang.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

BULLHITTER said:


> at the end of the day, it's yi's loss; *there'll still be other chinese players who'll want to play in the league*, milwaukee will survive as a franchise and the league will move on, WITHOUT yi, the unproven one.
> 
> maybe he's fine getting the big yen playing in the chinese leagues.
> 
> hey, micheal jordan retired too, right?


Yi is a national hero. If the Chinese produce another player of his caliber, they'll handle it the same way. In fact, I'm sure that part of the reason they're playing hardball on this one is to make it absolutely clear to us arrogant Americans that their wishes cannot be ignored without consequences.


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

Mebarak said:


> If they lose Mo Williams to Miami, maybe we could do:
> 
> Bulls Trade:
> 
> ...


Problem: we would have NO backup pg


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

Bulls rock your socks said:


> Problem: we would have NO backup pg



Who cares?

We could trot out a lineup of 

PG- Joakim Noah (7'0")
SG- Yi Jianlin (6'11")
SF- Tyrus Thomas (6-9")
PF- Ben Wallace (6'9")
C- Dan Gadzuric (6'11")

SIZE!!!!!!!


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

I have no sympathy for the Bucks. They knew the risk they were taking, and it blew up in their faces. Why couldn't they just take Brandon Wright? He's equally as talented and would've fit tremendously next to Bogut.

Yi is playing by the rules. This is America afterall, and he doesn't have to play somewhere he doesn't want to (so long as he accepts the consequences). If he's willing to sit out a year for the sake of not playing somewhere, by all means he has that right. 

Heck, if I were drafted by the Knicks, I might consider sitting out a season. I'd be miserable living in NY, as well as wearing a Knicks jersey.


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## lgtwins (May 18, 2004)

Dornado said:


> The league should really compensate the Bucks if this happens... I mean, I know they took the risk in drafting him, but you can't let international players strong-arm the draft process like this. The point of the draft is that you get assigned to the team that takes you... if Yi wanted to avoid this he could have come in later as a free agent and negotiated a nice landing spot. I know this re-entering the draft thing is in the CBA, but it doesn't seem particularly fair...


International player or not, a player has the right to sit out if he chooses to.


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## Snake (Jun 10, 2007)

If Milwaukee thinks Yi will actually sit out the year they need to trade him and get the most they can out of him (which won't be much).

Sitting out would actually be good for future Chinese draft picks because they will be able to pick the teams that take them.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

lgtwins said:


> International player or not, a player has the right to sit out if he chooses to.



I just don't like the CBA rule that allows them to enter the NBA draft the following year, though I guess I can't think of a better alternative. 

To be clear, I don't feel sorry so much for the Bucks as I do their fans... and the people of Milwaukee (a city I'm rather of fond of) getting their city ranked on in the press and on these boards by a bunch of people who haven't been there. (not in this thread, mind you)

I didn't like it when Steve Francis did it, and like others I still root against Eli Manning for doing it. I hope that if Yi sits out for a year he ends up getting drafted by another mid-market team... and beyond that, that he's a tremendous bust.


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## dougthonus (Jul 18, 2006)

> if Yi wanted to avoid this he could have come in later as a free agent and negotiated a nice landing spot.


He's automatically in the draft at age 22 even if he never declares, so he couldn't really do this. Though, knowing China, they could have waited a year and just said "woops, he's really 23, we lied". Who knows how that would work.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> What a douche. Still, I assume this is more the Chinese government than Yi pulling the strings. I hate when guys do this. It's just a few seasons. Just leave after your rookie deal if you need out so badly. Otherwise, just play pro hoops somewhere else.
> 
> This, consequently, is why I root for the Chargers now. I'd like nothing more to see Eli keep on sucking to high heaven while the Chargers play well.


So you root for a team whose defense is led by a cheating doper? There's not really much in the way of moral high ground there.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

yodurk said:


> I have no sympathy for the Bucks. They knew the risk they were taking, and it blew up in their faces. Why couldn't they just take Brandon Wright? He's equally as talented and would've fit tremendously next to Bogut.
> 
> Yi is playing by the rules. This is America afterall, and *he doesn't have to play somewhere he doesn't want to* (so long as he accepts the consequences). If he's willing to sit out a year for the sake of not playing somewhere, by all means he has that right.
> 
> Heck, if I were drafted by the Knicks, I might consider sitting out a season. I'd be miserable living in NY, as well as wearing a Knicks jersey.


OK, I'm gonna say this just one more time and then I'll stop and let everyone keep thinking like Americans.

What's happening with Yi has NOTHING to do with what HE wants. I suspect that Yi is dying to play in the NBA and Milwaukee is completely cool with him. Compared to living in China, even as a privileged person, Milwaukee is a penthouse at the Ritz.

To paraphrase Alex Karras in Blazing Saddles, "Yi is just pawn in game of life."


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Apparently they mentioned on the Score that a bunch of Bucks players (Charlie Villanueva included) flew out to meet with Yi in Las Vegas, tell him about the city, etc... and that when they waited for him to come out after the game he walked right by them... not acknowledging them. So apparently the Bucks players don't want him around now... and Larry Harris really has a mess on his hands...


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## Block (Apr 22, 2007)

wow fix your damn title. If any of you outside of transplant and dornado have a brain coherent enough to realize that the article states sitting out as only a possibility, we wouldn't have a stupendous Yi bashing.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

transplant said:


> OK, I'm gonna say this just one more time and then I'll stop and let everyone keep thinking like Americans.
> 
> What's happening with Yi has NOTHING to do with what HE wants. I suspect that Yi is dying to play in the NBA and Milwaukee is completely cool with him. Compared to living in China, even as a privileged person, Milwaukee is a penthouse at the Ritz.
> 
> To paraphrase Alex Karras in Blazing Saddles, "Yi is just pawn in game of life."


I think by now the assumption is that "Yi wants..." actually means "Yi's camp wants...". Whoever that is exactly, I'm not 100% clear. But he's probably not the guy holding things up. It's sort of like the Chinese government playing by the American rules.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

Dornado said:


> Apparently they mentioned on the Score that a bunch of Bucks players (Charlie Villanueva included) flew out to meet with Yi in Las Vegas, tell him about the city, etc... and that when they waited for him to come out after the game he walked right by them... not acknowledging them. So apparently the Bucks players don't want him around now... and Larry Harris really has a mess on his hands...


Yeah, I heard that too. Sending the team was a very American thing to do...and VERY stupid. It assumed that Yi is the one who is balking at playing in Milwaukee and that Yi is calling the shots. Played right into Yi's handlers' hands. They all wait 2 hours and then Yi is told to ignore them. He does what he's told and now there's another reason (Bucks' players hate him) for the Bucks to trade their rights to an "acceptable team."

God, Larry Harris is dumb.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Block said:


> wow fix your damn title. If any of you outside of transplant and dornado have a brain coherent enough to realize that the article states sitting out as only a possibility, we wouldn't have a stupendous Yi bashing.


co·her·ent /koʊˈhɪərənt, -ˈhɛr-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[koh-heer-uhnt, -her-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1.	logically connected; consistent: a coherent argument.
2.	cohering; sticking together: a coherent mass of sticky candies.
3.	having a natural or due agreement of parts; harmonious: a coherent design.
4.	Physics, Optics. of or pertaining to waves that maintain a fixed phase relationship, as in coherent light.



"Thoughts" can be coherent, brains can't.


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

Dornado said:


> The league should really compensate the Bucks if this happens... I mean, I know they took the risk in drafting him, but you can't let international players strong-arm the draft process like this. The point of the draft is that you get assigned to the team that takes you... if Yi wanted to avoid this he could have come in later as a free agent and negotiated a nice landing spot. I know this re-entering the draft thing is in the CBA, but it doesn't seem particularly fair...


bucks own fault for picking him. Countless times teams tell a player they'll take him if he's where they pick. THe person believes it, stays in the draft and doesnt get picked. SHould that guy get compensated cause he got a promise to be drafted? Should Orlando get somethnig if Fran Vazquez never comes to the NBA? 

Sometimes you call bluffs and lose, we'll see if this is the case.


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## lougehrig (Mar 1, 2005)

Yi is a nightmare. We don't want him on this team that's for sure. He is a team killer you can tell already. We are trying to build a winner here and we don't have the time to deal with a player and his "handlers". Ridiculous.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

transplant said:


> Yeah, I heard that too. Sending the team was a very American thing to do...and VERY stupid. It assumed that Yi is the one who is balking at playing in Milwaukee and that Yi is calling the shots. Played right into Yi's handlers' hands. They all wait 2 hours and then Yi is told to ignore them. He does what he's told and now there's another reason (Bucks' players hate him) for the Bucks to trade their rights to an "acceptable team."
> 
> God, Larry Harris is dumb.



Did they say that Larry Harris sent them? Couldn't this have been the players idea? (or an excuse to go to Vegas?)... Also, as far as it being a very "American" thing to do... you're going to have to elaborate, seems like you're just assigning cultural tags to some pretty benign behavior... like players from a team wanting to meet with a new teammate...


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

Whooda thunk it! What a shocker this one is. Yi (actually it's the Chineese Gov't running this show) threatening to sit out a year in order to not have to play in Milwaukee.

On the one hand, it stinks because nobody should forcefully try to circumvent the draft process. The Bucks drafted him, one hopes, in good faith. If the Chineese don't respect the process, they shouldn't make their players available. I guarantee you, without exception, if the same ploy was pulled in the other direction - an American forcing his position on the Chineese - the Chineese would be so up-in-arms with fiegned indignance as to make your head spin.

This has almost nothing to do with basketball. This is about the Chineese making sure that folks know that they're the ones calling the shots with respect to their citizens and also that they're fully prepared to buck whatever system they come in contact with if it doesn't suit their ends.

I still contend that it will be VERY interesting to see how Stern handles this and make no mistake - he's going to have to get involved. The Chineese aren't bluffing here and the Bucks don't seem inclined to give into Yi's demands. I just can't imagine Stern letting this one ride out. It's a veritable NBA pandora's box. If he does nothing and let's the Chineese follow thru with their threat to sit Yi, you're going to have one very unhappy owner on your hands. From what I can tell, for the most part, NBA team owners are a pretty tight-knit group. They're not going to like the precidence that will have been set if Yi re-enters the draft next year. Stern doesn't want angry/unhappy owners. They're the ones that make the whole show work.

The flipside would be to play hardball right back with the Chineese. Possibly ban Yi or all Chineese players from the league until such point in time as the Chineese agree to partake fairly in the draft process. (I think this has a snowballs chance in hell of happening - the Chinees will simply keep their players and dedicate massive resources to beating the rest of the world at this game). Stern knows he's got an enormous, untapped market in Asia - China in particular. He's not in the least interested in alienating what might be a cash cow for the NBA for decades to come.

Anger the owners or anger the Chineese. What's he gonna do? My guess is he'll angle strong and hard for a comprimise that's agreeable to both parties. I've got a feeling that this is easier to type than to actually accomplish. Hell, this may end up being one of the more interesting storylines of this offseason!


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

yodurk said:


> I think by now the assumption is that "Yi wants..." actually means "Yi's camp wants...". Whoever that is exactly, I'm not 100% clear. But he's probably not the guy holding things up. It's sort of like the Chinese government playing by the American rules.


Yodurk, I think you get it, but I think that your assumption that others do is optimistic. Exactly who Yi's handlers are isn't important. Where they get their instructions is and that's the Chinese government. For us, it's hard to imagine the government getting involved in one athlete's future, but book it, the Chinese are. They allowed Yao to go to Houston, and strategically, they probably wish they hadn't (though there was value to him being the #1 overall pick). The Chinese government wants Yi to yield some (Chinese) value (a tie to the homeland for Chinese-Americans). I understand that this kind of seems ridiculous to Americans (I mean really, how many Chinese Bulls fans are there), but that's how they're thinking. Put another way, Yi is viewed by the Chinese as a Chinese "asset" and they're determined to get as much return on this asset as they can.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

If you guys can get past the whole 'Chinese government' thing, how is this much different from Steve Francis, Kobe Bryant, heck even John Elway when they were drafted?

Sorry guys, I don't mean to offend anyone with this but I'm sensing a little xenophobia in this thread. Maybe that's a bit extreme, but in the least I'll call it a little ignorance. JMHO.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

TripleDouble said:


> So you root for a team whose defense is led by a cheating doper? There's not really much in the way of moral high ground there.


No, he's a douche, too. But if you're going to pick and choose what teams to root for in professional football based on rooting for the one that doesn't have a guy who has done steroids, you're going to be an awfully bored fan. He got caught and I think it was a travesty he was in the pro bowl last year, but you'd have to bury your head in the sand to believe he's particularly unique.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

superdave said:


> If you guys can get past the whole 'Chinese government' thing, how is this much different from Steve Francis, Kobe Bryant, heck even John Elway when they were drafted?


No. Those all sucked, too, and I assume most agree. If anything, Yi is more sympathetic since the decision about where he goes is above his head. 

Maybe the US should offer Yi political amnesty so he can just cut his ties to the Chinese government. That would be fun.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

superdave said:


> If you guys can get past the whole 'Chinese government' thing, how is this much different from Steve Francis, Kobe Bryant, heck even John Elway when they were drafted?
> 
> Sorry guys, I don't mean to offend anyone with this but I'm sensing a little xenophobia in this thread. Maybe that's a bit extreme, but in the least I'll call it a little ignorance. JMHO.



It'd be one thing if we were letting those guys off the hook... I'm pretty sure most of us that are upset about the Yi situation were equally peeved about Steve Francis, Eli Manning, etc... I could care less what nationality Yi is... I think it only gets brought up because his handlers cite it as a reason for them not wanting him in Milwaukee.


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## thunderspirit (Jun 25, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> Maybe the US should offer Yi political amnesty so he can just cut his ties to the Chinese government. That would be fun.


That _would_ be fun. 

Not likely to happen under the current adminstration, but still, yes...damned entertaining to envision. :biggrin:


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## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

thunderspirit said:


> That _would_ be fun.
> 
> Not likely to happen under the current adminstration, but still, yes...damned entertaining to envision. :biggrin:


Didn't something similar happen to Wang Zhi Zhi?


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

Dornado said:


> Did they say that Larry Harris sent them? Couldn't this have been the players idea? (or an excuse to go to Vegas?)... Also, as far as it being a very "American" thing to do... you're going to have to elaborate, seems like you're just assigning cultural tags to some pretty benign behavior... like players from a team wanting to meet with a new teammate...


Yes, Hanley said that Harris organized the trip (kinda hard to imagine the players themselves thinking this up). On the off-chance that it was the players idea, it's Harris's job to tell them it's a bad idea.

As for the trip being a very "American" thing to do, I'd be happy to elaborate. 

Sending the whole damn Bucks team to meet Yi pre-supposes that the problem is Yi, and that just showing Yi how much he'll be welcomed as a part of the team will somehow turn Yi around. For any American basketball phenom, this might be effective, BECAUSE THEY WOULD GET TO DECIDE WHERE THEY PLAY.

Once again, Yi doesn't get a vote on this issue. We all like to say (about America) that "it's a free country." CHINA IS NOT!

As some may have guessed, I've dealt with Asian businesses, including China. They're different. The Chinese are a particularly hard case. They don't like us much and find us to be unjustifiably arrogant (they find their own cultural arrogance to be very justified).

In my opinion, Larry Harris should have gotten himself a China expert before the draft. He wouldn't have taken Yi and he certainly wouldn't have sent the team on that "missionary trip." The interests of the Chinese gov't was completely ignored. They don't like that and it makes them VERY difficult to deal with.

Net, the Bucks brought it on themselves and have kept bringing it on themselves. They just don't get what the game is about.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Larry Harris is another guy who doesn't get talked about as being a mediocre GM. Potentially going to lose Mo Williams, traded a capable above average "Young" starting point guard in TJ Ford for a guy who was no longer in Toronto's plans. Sacked Stotts when he should have never fired Terry Porter before in the first place. Either way, I am not impressed with this guy and I wouldn't want to play with a team that has an injury prone Bobby Simmons on it and all those bad contracts (yes Michael Redd has a bad contract).


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I don't think Yi looks very good. He hasn't played well in the summer league and the few games I caught of him playing for China pre draft were pretty ho hum.

ACE


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

Alright, Alright, now heres a little perspective from a Milwaukee Bucks season ticket holder and a lifelong milwaukean.

First off to anyone that thinks that the Bucks insulted the chinese government by taking Yi in the draft is just a flat out moron. The Bucks are offering Yi the chance to play in the NBA for millions of dollars, and the chance to leave an oppressive communist country. If anything the people of Milwaukee should be insulted that people in communist china feel that our city isn't good enough for a freakin basketball player. This leads me to the media and asspipes who post on this website of our country who have taken it upon themselves to join the communist party in ripping apart one of their own cities. I have never seen a city, and the people who live in it so needlessly abused by fellow americans in the name of Yi and the chinese government. There is more to Milwaukee than just snow, and last I checked it snows in Minneapolis, Cleveland, Detroit, New Jersey, New York and even in Chicago. Milwaukee is a great party town that has a great bar scene, museums, the 2nd largest zoo in the country, a major league baseball team and its on the banks of Lake Michigan, we also provided the country with delightful Miller beer and those fun Harleys milwaukee haters seem to love to drive. There are also a million people that live in Milwaukee and its surrounding suburbs, so its not a little hole in the wall town like green bay is. Thats enough for me defending my hometown, and keep in mind this was not directed at any individuals for this thread.

Should the Milwaukee Bucks be compensated for taking in their opinion the best player available to them in the draft? Yes they should, the reason is because its a freaking draft, why even have a draft if any top flight prospect can make out a list of acceptable cities that they would be willing to play for. I guess there is one way you can fix this, take the Bucks out of Milwaukee and move them to chicago, and while your at it just eliminate every other nba city and just have 10 teams in LA, 10 teams in Chicago and 10 teams in New York, then every player in the NBA will be happy as a pig in **** that they dont have to go to a crummy city like Milwaukee. They may not have to go to that extreme since guys like Yi and fagen can dictate prior to the draft where they want to play, and for anyone that wants to play the its a free country card they can play where they want to play thats fine, thats what free agency is for, besides the NBA is a business they have the right to hire whomever they want, nba teams are just like different branches in this larger company. Yi is basically telling his boss (NBA/Stern) that he wont work in certain departments of his company, what other person could get away with this, i know if i did that at my job i would get **** canned. The thing that blows me away is this guy has done nothing but play like crap while on American soil yet he ands his reps are so full of demands.

Now as a faithful Bucks fan I feel that I am getting screwed by Yi and his agent and i think the bucks should just trade him for whatever they can get, a draft pick would be nice so long as Larry Harris isnt around to make the selection. As a fan with common sense i understand why lots of people feel that the bucks should be punished because they had prior knowledge of Yi's dislike of the city of milwaukee and they took him anyways. I personally wouldnt have done it and i think Harris should be fired for being that stupid, the problem goes beyond the Bucks and Yi.. if the bulls got the #1 pick next year and wanted to take Love for example but he refuses to play anywhere but on the westcoast you guys would know how this feels too, its depressing enough to be the laughingstock in your own country but its really crappy to be told how crappy you are by communists.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

The reason I believe Milwaukee (i.e. Larry Harris) was stupid is because I personally expect Thad Young, Brandan Wright and Nick Young to have better NBA careers than Yi. Now if even three guys who were drafted below him turn out to be stars, then the Bucks will look stupid.

They got caught thinking about selling Bucks merchandise in China, rather than improving their team. Nice job idiots, screwing your fans over too.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

transplant said:


> Yes, Hanley said that Harris organized the trip (kinda hard to imagine the players themselves thinking this up). On the off-chance that it was the players idea, it's Harris's job to tell them it's a bad idea.
> 
> As for the trip being a very "American" thing to do, I'd be happy to elaborate.
> 
> ...



I just figured they weren't having success dealing with his handlers, so they tried to appeal to the athlete... I viewed it less as a misdiagnosis of how the Chinese do business and more of a last-ditch effort to do whatever they could to salvage their offseason.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

roux2dope said:


> Alright, Alright, now heres a little perspective from a Milwaukee Bucks season ticket holder and a lifelong milwaukean.
> 
> First off to anyone that thinks that the Bucks insulted the chinese government by taking Yi in the draft is just a flat out moron. The Bucks are offering Yi the chance to play in the NBA for millions of dollars, and the chance to leave an oppressive communist country. If anything the people of Milwaukee should be insulted that people in communist china feel that our city isn't good enough for a freakin basketball player. This leads me to the media and asspipes who post on this website of our country who have taken it upon themselves to join the communist party in ripping apart one of their own cities. I have never seen a city, and the people who live in it so needlessly abused by fellow americans in the name of Yi and the chinese government. There is more to Milwaukee than just snow, and last I checked it snows in Minneapolis, Cleveland, Detroit, New Jersey, New York and even in Chicago. Milwaukee is a great party town that has a great bar scene, museums, the 2nd largest zoo in the country, a major league baseball team and its on the banks of Lake Michigan, we also provided the country with delightful Miller beer and those fun Harleys milwaukee haters seem to love to drive. There are also a million people that live in Milwaukee and its surrounding suburbs, so its not a little hole in the wall town like green bay is. Thats enough for me defending my hometown, and keep in mind this was not directed at any individuals for this thread.
> 
> ...


Flat out moron here. 

Well said. The Chinese government would undoubtedly be very moved by your post.

You are the definition of not getting it.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

Hustle said:


> Durant should really do the same thing.


Co-sign. He got himself into a terrible situation


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

transplant said:


> Flat out moron here.
> 
> Well said. The Chinese government would undoubtedly be very moved by your post.
> 
> You are the definition of not getting it.



Sorry, but just because you don't like it doesn't mean you don't get it. People understand the Chinese Government and sports authorities are in charge of Yi... but this isn't the CBA, and I don't see how someone arguing that Yi (read: Yi, his handlers, interested government parites, etc...) should follow the business model the NBA has developed is automatically labeled as "not getting it". 

Okay... the Chinese sports authorities wanted Yi to go to a specific type of city... they rolled the dice on this by entering him in the draft. Things didn't work out the way they wanted... they want to sit Yi out and a bucks fan doesn't like it... doesn't mean he doesn't 'get it', it just means he thinks that Yi and his handlers should subordinate whatever agenda it is that makes Milwaukee unsuitable and be happy with what they get.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

roux2dope said:


> Alright, Alright, now heres a little perspective from a Milwaukee Bucks season ticket holder and a lifelong milwaukean.
> 
> First off to anyone that thinks that the Bucks insulted the chinese government by taking Yi in the draft is just a flat out moron. The Bucks are offering Yi the chance to play in the NBA for millions of dollars, and the chance to leave an oppressive communist country. If anything the people of Milwaukee should be insulted that people in communist china feel that our city isn't good enough for a freakin basketball player. This leads me to the media and asspipes who post on this website of our country who have taken it upon themselves to join the communist party in ripping apart one of their own cities. I have never seen a city, and the people who live in it so needlessly abused by fellow americans in the name of Yi and the chinese government. There is more to Milwaukee than just snow, and last I checked it snows in Minneapolis, Cleveland, Detroit, New Jersey, New York and even in Chicago. Milwaukee is a great party town that has a great bar scene, museums, the 2nd largest zoo in the country, a major league baseball team and its on the banks of Lake Michigan, we also provided the country with delightful Miller beer and those fun Harleys milwaukee haters seem to love to drive. There are also a million people that live in Milwaukee and its surrounding suburbs, so its not a little hole in the wall town like green bay is. Thats enough for me defending my hometown, and keep in mind this was not directed at any individuals for this thread.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure it's a dislike for the city of Milwaukee. It's about taking what the Chinese government views as a prized asset, and placing him in a situation that is most beneficial to their country. They don't feel a small market is the place to do that.

Now, as a Bulls fan I'm fairly certain that the Jordan popularity is still rampant in Asia, and that Yi wearing a Bulls jersey would be incredibly popular. That's at least one reason why they wanted him in Chicago from what I can tell. Can't speak to the preference for other cities.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

transplant said:


> Flat out moron here.
> 
> Well said. The Chinese government would undoubtedly be very moved by your post.
> 
> You are the definition of not getting it.


I second that. Totally moronic.

If anyone remembers that whole fiasco when the Rockets won the lottery and made it clear they wanted to draft Yao Ming. What did they do? The owners, the coach, the gm and anyone in the organisation went to China to build relations with Yao Ming and his hanlders, plus the Chinese governement. They did this for many weeks and months, untill the relationship between the organisation and Yao Ming and his people and the government was solid, THEN they drafted him. I remember when people were scratching their heads at why they were making such a big fuss about convincing them Houston was a good fit for Yao. But quite frankly unlike American players, its not as simple as working it out with the player and their manager, and if you can't get around the concept and try to understand how much of an influence the Chinese government have on ANY chinese born and raised person you are being ignorant for not opening up your mind to the real world outside of the world you live in. Whether you believe it is right or wrong, it doesn't matter, thats just the way of life in those particular countries.

Yi is not as high profiled as Yao Ming, but he is consider to have MORE potential. So to be fair, i understand why they are making such a big fuss about where Yi lands. Yet, the organisation builds NO relations with Yi's camp in ANY FORM WHAT-SO-EVER and their continued to draft him. NOT even dialouge which even American players and organisation do, they just flat out drafted him with the mindset that they "own" him like a piece of meat. Harris said in an interview that he "owned" Yi regardless of what he thought, well Harris your a bloody idiot and i hope you never get a job in the NBA ever again once you get fired and to continue to use your current players as your pawns to convince Yi to like the team, obviously you still don't get it. You just got "owned" and you quite frankly deserved everything thats coming.


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## Snake (Jun 10, 2007)

Milwaukee is getting screwed by Yi, but it's not the first or last time a team will get screwed by a player. Plenty of players get screwed by teams so its a 2-way street and Milwaukee had ample warning not to pick him.

Stern will not compensate Milwaukee. I don't know how he could even do that. He will not do anything that is contrary to the CBA and Yi is playing by the rules set in the CBA. If the owners don't like it they'll have to change it the next time it's negotiated.

Stern also will not do anything to piss off the Chinese government. The NBA is trying to expand into China and next summers Olympics are a huge opportunity to do that.

The only thing I could see Stern doing is helping broker a fair trade for Milwaukee. Maybe Brandan Wright for Yi. Stern could give Golden State a little wink, wink, nudge, nudge to help move the deal along. It seems that Golden State wanted Yi more than Wright before the draft so this could work out as fair for all parties.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

I agree with a lot of what's already been posted in this thread. To me, the Bucks seemed pretty cavalier about taking such a large risk. They seemed unwilling to acknowledge the considerable leverage Yi and his camp have in the situation. As some others have pointed out that leverage exists because of the CBA negotiated by the Union and owners such as Senator Kohl. Whether or not it's morally acceptable to use that leverage is another issue but either way, it doesn't get the Buck's front office off the hook.



roux2dope said:


> Alright, Alright, now heres a little perspective from a Milwaukee Bucks season ticket holder and a lifelong milwaukean.
> 
> First off to anyone that thinks that the Bucks insulted the chinese government by taking Yi in the draft is just a flat out moron. The Bucks are offering Yi the chance to play in the NBA for millions of dollars, and the chance to leave an oppressive communist country.


It's not as though the Bucks are solely responsible for Yi's opportunity to play in the NBA. If every other team had no interest in him and yet he rejected the Bucks, maybe that'd be ungrateful but that's not really what happened. I can see how someone could be offended when they express very serious desires and those desires are not honored.



roux2dope said:


> If anything the people of Milwaukee should be insulted that people in communist china feel that our city isn't good enough for a freakin basketball player. This leads me to the media and asspipes who post on this website of our country who have taken it upon themselves to join the communist party in ripping apart one of their own cities. I have never seen a city, and the people who live in it so needlessly abused by fellow americans in the name of Yi and the chinese government. There is more to Milwaukee than just snow, and last I checked it snows in Minneapolis, Cleveland, Detroit, New Jersey, New York and even in Chicago. Milwaukee is a great party town that has a great bar scene, museums, the 2nd largest zoo in the country, a major league baseball team and its on the banks of Lake Michigan, we also provided the country with delightful Miller beer and those fun Harleys milwaukee haters seem to love to drive. There are also a million people that live in Milwaukee and its surrounding suburbs, so its not a little hole in the wall town like green bay is. Thats enough for me defending my hometown, and keep in mind this was not directed at any individuals for this thread.


I understand. I'd be insulted if someone thought my hometown isn't good enough for them. At the same time, I don't see what it has to do with communism and different people have different likes and dislikes. Maybe Milwaukee just isn't for Yi.



roux2dope said:


> Should the Milwaukee Bucks be compensated for taking in their opinion the best player available to them in the draft? Yes they should, the reason is because its a freaking draft, why even have a draft if any top flight prospect can make out a list of acceptable cities that they would be willing to play for.


Unfortunately, that's not really provided for in the NBA. The Grizzlies weren't compensated when they were forced to accept poor value for Francis. If draftees have too much leverage as far as what team they play for then maybe the CBA needs to change. Both sides have been pretty good at making concessions in the last few years. 



roux2dope said:


> I guess there is one way you can fix this, take the Bucks out of Milwaukee and move them to chicago, and while your at it just eliminate every other nba city and just have 10 teams in LA, 10 teams in Chicago and 10 teams in New York, then every player in the NBA will be happy as a pig in **** that they dont have to go to a crummy city like Milwaukee. They may not have to go to that extreme since guys like Yi and fagen can dictate prior to the draft where they want to play, and for anyone that wants to play the its a free country card they can play where they want to play thats fine, thats what free agency is for, besides the NBA is a business they have the right to hire whomever they want, nba teams are just like different branches in this larger company.


Fortunately, it's not an issue 99% of the time. Even someone like Noah who was supposedly hinting that certain teams such as Milwaukee shouldn't draft him probably would've played for whoever took him. Yi was extremely adamant about where he was and was not willing to play and I think that should've given the Bucks more pause than it did. 



roux2dope said:


> Yi is basically telling his boss (NBA/Stern) that he wont work in certain departments of his company, what other person could get away with this, i know if i did that at my job i would get **** canned. The thing that blows me away is this guy has done nothing but play like crap while on American soil yet he ands his reps are so full of demands.


Well, most people have pretty absolute freedom about the geographic location of their job. 



roux2dope said:


> if the bulls got the #1 pick next year and wanted to take Love for example but he refuses to play anywhere but on the westcoast you guys would know how this feels too, its depressing enough to be the laughingstock in your own country but its really crappy to be told how crappy you are by communists.


I'm sure it sucks. While I don't have any sympathy for the Bucks front office, I have plenty of sympathy for their fans. Regrettable decisions by your team are crushing. I've disagreed with a lot of the decisions the White Sox have made in recent years and it's hurt my ability to enjoy the team. I do think there are some limits to how much this can happen though. 

First, the more regularly it happens, the more outraged the owners will be and something will be taken care of it in the CBA. Also, the more teams a player refuses to play for and the less reasonable the reasons for the demands, the more a player's reputation is going to take a hit. For instance, if Yi refused to play for any team other than the Warriors, his image would take such a hit in the U.S. and China that his shoe deal would become worthless. Finally, I don't believe that many players will be willing to set out a full years. This is a pretty unique situation.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Snake said:


> The only thing I could see Stern doing is helping broker a fair trade for Milwaukee. Maybe Brandan Wright for Yi. Stern could give Golden State a little wink, wink, nudge, nudge to help move the deal along. It seems that Golden State wanted Yi more than Wright before the draft so this could work out as fair for all parties.


Whether or not Stern helps with a trade, I have no idea why Milwaukee isn't on the phone with Golden State getting a deal done. Hell, it shouldn't even take more than an hour to discuss this. A straight up swap of Yi for Wright is an absolute no-brainer for both teams, from a basketball standpoint at least. Now the question is, would Larry Harris be willing to admit his mistake by doing this.


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

kulaz3000 said:


> I second that. Totally moronic.
> 
> If anyone remembers that whole fiasco when the Rockets won the lottery and made it clear they wanted to draft Yao Ming. What did they do? The owners, the coach, the gm and anyone in the organisation went to China to build relations with Yao Ming and his hanlders, plus the Chinese governement. They did this for many weeks and months, untill the relationship between the organisation and Yao Ming and his people and the government was solid, THEN they drafted him. I remember when people were scratching their heads at why they were making such a big fuss about convincing them Houston was a good fit for Yao. But quite frankly unlike American players, its not as simple as working it out with the player and their manager, and if you can't get around the concept and try to understand how much of an influence the Chinese government have on ANY chinese born and raised person you are being ignorant for not opening up your mind to the real world outside of the world you live in. Whether you believe it is right or wrong, it doesn't matter, thats just the way of life in those particular countries.
> 
> Yi is not as high profiled as Yao Ming, but he is consider to have MORE potential. So to be fair, i understand why they are making such a big fuss about where Yi lands. Yet, the organisation builds NO relations with Yi's camp in ANY FORM WHAT-SO-EVER and their continued to draft him. NOT even dialouge which even American players and organisation do, they just flat out drafted him with the mindset that they "own" him like a piece of meat. Harris said in an interview that he "owned" Yi regardless of what he thought, well Harris your a bloody idiot and i hope you never get a job in the NBA ever again once you get fired and to continue to use your current players as your pawns to convince Yi to like the team, obviously you still don't get it. You just got "owned" and you quite frankly deserved everything thats coming.


It has nothing to do with not getting it, I understand how the rest of the world works, but the fact remains that chinese government is using the NBA as a means to make money off yi playing over here, yet they are unwilling to play by the basic groundrules the NBA has laid out for first year eligable players. If they wanted the choice of what team they wanted him to play for they should have waited and let him enter the NBA via free agency. On the other hand i agree with you about the way the Bucks went about the process, you dont think I am angry about this pick? Larry Harris is basically playing blindfolded darts here and it pisses me off. The fact is that the Bucks are being punished for making a draft pick they had every right to make, and if they get screwed by Yi its going to set a bad example for other foreign players wanting to play in the NBA, this time its the Bucks getting screwed next time it could be your favorite team, tell me i dont get it then.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

kulaz3000 said:


> I second that. Totally moronic.
> 
> If anyone remembers that whole fiasco when the Rockets won the lottery and made it clear they wanted to draft Yao Ming. What did they do? The owners, the coach, the gm and anyone in the organisation went to China to build relations with Yao Ming and his hanlders, plus the Chinese governement. They did this for many weeks and months, untill the relationship between the organisation and Yao Ming and his people and the government was solid, THEN they drafted him. I remember when people were scratching their heads at why they were making such a big fuss about convincing them Houston was a good fit for Yao. But quite frankly unlike American players, its not as simple as working it out with the player and their manager, and if you can't get around the concept and try to understand how much of an influence the Chinese government have on ANY chinese born and raised person you are being ignorant for not opening up your mind to the real world outside of the world you live in. Whether you believe it is right or wrong, it doesn't matter, thats just the way of life in those particular countries.
> 
> Yi is not as high profiled as Yao Ming, but he is consider to have MORE potential. So to be fair, i understand why they are making such a big fuss about where Yi lands. Yet, the organisation builds NO relations with Yi's camp in ANY FORM WHAT-SO-EVER and their continued to draft him. NOT even dialouge which even American players and organisation do, they just flat out drafted him with the mindset that they "own" him like a piece of meat. Harris said in an interview that he "owned" Yi regardless of what he thought, well Harris your a bloody idiot and i hope you never get a job in the NBA ever again once you get fired and to continue to use your current players as your pawns to convince Yi to like the team, obviously you still don't get it. You just got "owned" and you quite frankly deserved everything thats coming.



To be fair, Houston knew they were picking first and that Yao would be there... they had time to build diplomatic relations. 

I'm pretty sure Roux2Dope called for Larry Harris to be fired... and I don't think anyone thinks the Bucks made the right move here. But given where things stand now, I (and some others) think Yi should honor his end of the "draft" bargain... you (player) get to enter the draft and we (the teams) get to pick where you go... If Yi's handlers don't like it, they shouldn't have entered their "prized asset" into such a risky business scenario.


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## Snake (Jun 10, 2007)

roux2dope said:


> It has nothing to do with not getting it, I understand how the rest of the world works, but the fact remains that chinese government is using the NBA as a means to make money off yi playing over here, yet they are unwilling to play by the basic groundrules the NBA has laid out for first year eligable players. If they wanted the choice of what team they wanted him to play for they should have waited and let him enter the NBA via free agency. On the other hand i agree with you about the way the Bucks went about the process, you dont think I am angry about this pick? Larry Harris is basically playing blindfolded darts here and it pisses me off. The fact is that the Bucks are being punished for making a draft pick they had every right to make, and if they get screwed by Yi its going to set a bad example for other foreign players wanting to play in the NBA, this time its the Bucks getting screwed next time it could be your favorite team, tell me i dont get it then.


I'm sure you're not happy with the situation. If this was happening to the Bulls can you imagine the hell that would be raised on this board.

However you're wrong when you say Yi isn't playing by the rules. The rules say that he can sit out a year and enter next years draft. Harris should have seen this coming. An American player wouldn't sit out but Harris should have realized that this is a unique situation.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

roux2dope said:


> It has nothing to do with not getting it, I understand how the rest of the world works, but the fact remains that chinese government is using the NBA as a means to make money off yi playing over here, yet they are unwilling to play by the basic groundrules the NBA has laid out for first year eligable players. If they wanted the choice of what team they wanted him to play for they should have waited and let him enter the NBA via free agency. On the other hand i agree with you about the way the Bucks went about the process, you dont think I am angry about this pick? Larry Harris is basically playing blindfolded darts here and it pisses me off. The fact is that the Bucks are being punished for making a draft pick they had every right to make, and if they get screwed by Yi its going to set a bad example for other foreign players wanting to play in the NBA, this time its the Bucks getting screwed next time it could be your favorite team, tell me i dont get it then.


I agree that it sucks for the government to control someones life and from what i hear to tax roughly half your earning salary for your career, but sadly that is the way it is when you deal with a country such as China. I'm by no means saying that it is fair or that it is right, its neither, yet that is life for those people. 

What it all comes down to is not about Yi or even the governement not liking the team or Milwaukee as a town, but how Harris and the team went about in the process of drafting him. How they went about drafting a player with the mindset of "owning" who they draft and not thinking about the complexity of a situation they would be facing with drafting a player from China whom they had NO PRIOR contact with in any form.


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

Snake said:


> I'm sure you're not happy with the situation. If this was happening to the Bulls can you imagine the hell that would be raised on this board.
> 
> However you're wrong when you say Yi isn't playing by the rules. The rules say that he can sit out a year and enter next years draft. Harris should have seen this coming. An American player wouldn't sit out but Harris should have realized that this is a unique situation.


You are right, but its a terrible loophole that needs to be fixed. I guess what I am most frustrated about is the bucks get screwed by this, they are a small market team that has crappy winters and they basically have no chance of signing any major star type free agents, teams like the Bucks, Cavs, Wolves, Pacers rely on the draft to stay competitive with larger market teams. Whether you agree or disagree with the Bucks taking yi he is now setting a precident for foreign players to not want to come here either. Hell no free agents want to come here, the whole country of china wont let their players come here, whats next spain wont either? Its a problem the NBA needs to fix if they want any kind of competitive balance in the NBA, and giving foreign players the right derail the draft is going to do nothing but give more power to the teams and markets that really dont need the help. As i stated before either the NBA steps in and fixes this or you might as well fold the bucks because the will never be able to compete. 

On a side note, I dont even like Yi. I think he is going to be a bust, I wouldnt want him even if was begging to come to milwaukee. I am just trying to defend my city and the team that i love from the abuse they are getting.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

Dornado said:


> To be fair, Houston knew they were picking first and that Yao would be there... they had time to build diplomatic relations.
> 
> I'm pretty sure Roux2Dope called for Larry Harris to be fired... and I don't think anyone thinks the Bucks made the right move here. But given where things stand now, I (and some others) think Yi should honor his end of the "draft" bargain... you (player) get to enter the draft and we (the teams) get to pick where you go... If Yi's handlers don't like it, they shouldn't have entered their "prized asset" into such a risky business scenario.


Indeed, Houston had the #1 pick and knew they were going to draft Yao from the get go or atleast "wanted" to, so they had more time to prepare. But is that an excuse for Harris to not for any sort of contact with Yi or his handlers just because he didn't know he'd have the opportunity to draft him? 

When you are asked specifically NOT(which was the case for the Bucks amoungst other teams) to watch Yi workout which would allow a team to get in contact with him directly and his handlers, is that not a red flag of sorts?


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

Snake said:


> I'm sure you're not happy with the situation. If this was happening to the Bulls can you imagine the hell that would be raised on this board.
> 
> However you're wrong when you say Yi isn't playing by the rules. The rules say that he can sit out a year and enter next years draft. Harris should have seen this coming. An American player wouldn't sit out but Harris should have realized that this is a unique situation.


He can if he can prove he's not under contract to a Chinese team. It's just not playing that doesn't count, he can't have a contract with a Chinese team and if his Chinese team says he doesn't, I think Stern would consider them lying. 

I've posted this in the Bucks forum before - it's a Sporting News article that lays out who's who and what's what in this whole mess. Important points - it's Yi's agent and his team that's driving the whole refusal, and it's all about Fegan thinking he can get more endorsements for Yi somewhere else. Endorsements are less about where you are and more about how good you are.

Here's the link to the story:

Who's pulling the strings in the Yi-Bucks mess?

and a key part of it:

4


> . Ask yourself: Who's not happy with Yi in Milwaukee? That's the question that needs to be focused on. The answer is his agent, Dan Fegan, and the team that has him under contract, the Tigers.
> 
> The bigger question is, "Why?" That requires some speculation. Sources tell me that Yi did not pick his own agent -- instead, the Tigers did what the Sharks tried to do to Yao Ming and pick his agent for him. Yao resisted. Yi did not (or, at least, if he tried to resist, he was not successful). The Tigers picked Fegan and he became Yi's agent, a source told me, without ever having met Yi.
> 
> ...


I'm not happy about the pick although Harris did it because he thought he was picking the best player available. If Conley had been at 6, or Horford was still there, I think Harris would have picked either one of them. But this could end up being the second year in a row there's no drafted rookie in camp after Harris threw away the 2006 draft pick to New Orleans for Magloire plus the small forward we had!!!!


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

kulaz3000 said:


> I agree that it sucks for the government to control someones life and from what i hear to tax roughly half your earning salary for your career, but sadly that is the way it is when you deal with a country such as China. I'm by no means saying that it is fair or that it is right, its neither, yet that is life for those people.
> 
> What it all comes down to is not about Yi or even the governement not liking the team or Milwaukee as a town, but how Harris and the team went about in the process of drafting him. How they went about drafting a player with the mindset of "owning" who they draft and not thinking about the complexity of a situation they would be facing with drafting a player from China whom they had NO PRIOR contact with in any form.


You dont seriously think the bucks didnt try? The were repeatedly denied access to him. Now as a fan when the bucks drafted him anyways i felt it was a wasted pick cause I knew he wouldnt come here. Lets just say Larry Harris took a really bad gamble and we as fans are paying for it now. Like i said earlier i think its part of a larger problem that needs to be addressed.

Just for the record, I hate Larry Harris and I agree with anyone that keeps posting that the Bucks knew what the were getting in to.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

roux2dope said:


> You are right, but its a terrible loophole that needs to be fixed. I guess what I am most frustrated about is the bucks get screwed by this, they are a small market team that has crappy winters and they basically have no chance of signing any major star type free agents, teams like the Bucks, Cavs, Wolves, Pacers rely on the draft to stay competitive with larger market teams. Whether you agree or disagree with the Bucks taking yi he is now setting a precident for foreign players to not want to come here either. Hell no free agents want to come here, the whole country of china wont let their players come here, whats next spain wont either? Its a problem the NBA needs to fix if they want any kind of competitive balance in the NBA, and giving foreign players the right derail the draft is going to do nothing but give more power to the teams and markets that really dont need the help. As i stated before either the NBA steps in and fixes this or you might as well fold the bucks because the will never be able to compete.
> 
> 
> On a side note, I dont even like Yi. I think he is going to be a bust, I wouldnt want him even if was begging to come to milwaukee. I am just trying to defend my city and the team that i love from the abuse they are getting.


You are right, and its tough for small market teams to go through this trouble. But Harris is the one at fault here and not town of Milwaukee. Knowing that it is a small market, he should have made the safer choice by drafting a player that would have represented your organisation proudly. You had the #6 pick, there were plenty of high quality players you could have chosen at that with a low risk factor and less hassel. Yet, Harris though he would risk it anyway, and now the franchise and the fans are paying the price for an egostical and idiotic mistake. 

I too, don't think Yi is going to be that great of a basketball player. I think he will be a good role player at best, but nothing like the impact that Yao Ming is making on the league. But, i also do see him having the tools to be a pretty good offensive player.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

roux2dope said:


> It has nothing to do with not getting it, I understand how the rest of the world works, but the fact remains that chinese government is using the NBA as a means to make money off yi playing over here, *yet they are unwilling to play by the basic groundrules the NBA has laid out for first year eligable players.* If they wanted the choice of what team they wanted him to play for they should have waited and let him enter the NBA via free agency. On the other hand i agree with you about the way the Bucks went about the process, you dont think I am angry about this pick? Larry Harris is basically playing blindfolded darts here and it pisses me off. The fact is that the Bucks are being punished for making a draft pick they had every right to make, and if they get screwed by Yi its going to set a bad example for other foreign players wanting to play in the NBA, this time its the Bucks getting screwed next time it could be your favorite team, tell me i dont get it then.


You get a tiny bit of it. The Chinese gov't doesn't care about the money...couldn't care less. Yeah, they're unwilling to play by the basic rules laid out by the NBA...compared to their political objectives, why should they? The Chinese gov't doesn't give a s*** about how the NBA views them. Why should they? In the overall world of global trade, the NBA ain't spit.

The Yi situation has no relation to other non-American players. No other gov't I can think of (that has major NBA-type talent) behaves the way China does. China's different. If you choose to deal with them, you have to recognize the differences.

Hey, I'd love to be wrong, but it looks like Larry Harris f'd up big time. Blame whoever you want, but this is a bad situation that doesn't figure to get better. In the end, it's your mess and you're welcome to it.


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

kulaz3000 said:


> You are right, and its tough for small market teams to go through this trouble. But Harris is the one at fault here and not town of Milwaukee. *Knowing that it is a small market, he should have made the safer choice* by drafting a player that would have represented your organisation proudly. You had the #6 pick, there were plenty of high quality players you could have chosen at that with a low risk factor and less hassel. Yet, Harris though he would risk it anyway, and now the franchise and the fans are paying the price for an egostical and idiotic mistake.
> 
> I too, don't think Yi is going to be that great of a basketball player. I think he will be a good role player at best, but nothing like the impact that Yao Ming is making on the league. But, i also do see him having the tools to be a pretty good offensive player.


Thats my point exactly, every team in the draft should have the right to draft the best player the feel is available. Sadly as a fan of a small market team i would have done just that, but it doesnt mean its right. Just because they are the Bucks they cant draft the players they feel will help their team the most, so players that dont want to play for small market teams can choose what market they want to play in? It is going to cripple small maket teams to a point of non-competetiveness (i dont know if thats even a word :biggrin: ). All in all Yi's reps are silently damaging the NBA by hurting small market teams. I know its crazy for me to come on to the 3rd largest city in the country's board and expect any sympathy, but damn i love a good arguement.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

roux2dope said:


> Thats my point exactly, every team in the draft should have the right to draft the best player the feel is available. Sadly as a fan of a small market team i would have done just that, but it doesnt mean its right. Just because they are the Bucks they cant draft the players they feel will help their team the most, so players that dont want to play for small market teams can choose what market they want to play in? It is going to cripple small maket teams to a point of non-competetiveness (i dont know if thats even a word :biggrin: ). All in all Yi's reps are silently damaging the NBA by hurting small market teams. I know its crazy for me to come on to the 3rd largest city in the country's board and expect any sympathy, but damn i love a good arguement.


I feel we're going around in circles. 

Of course a team should have the right to draft the best player available, but that also doesn't mean you shouldn't blind-side yourself and not think about the consequences of the player your wanting to draft.


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

kulaz3000 said:


> I feel we're going around in circles.
> 
> Of course a team should have the right to draft the best player available, but that also doesn't mean you shouldn't blind-side yourself and not think about the consequences of the player your wanting to draft.


I understand that what the bucks did was insanely stupid. If it wasnt for the loophole to get out of playing for the bucks this wouldnt be an issue, i guess to me this is just a matter of a small town getting squashed, but you are right about them making a a very thoughtless selection, I wanted corey brewer bad anyways.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

roux2dope said:


> If they wanted the choice of what team they wanted him to play for they should have waited and let him enter the NBA via free agency.


My understanding is that if you're 22 (and don't have college eligibility) you're automatically in the draft so this wouldn't be an option for Yi unless he were to go undrafted which wouldn't happen. 

I'm not sure you want to make an absolute rule that players have to play for the team that drafts them. Even though NBA players are well compensated, they're still people and deserve some slight degree of freedom. If there are enough disincentives to refusing to play for the team that drafts you players won't raise a fuss. Obviously the system has worked pretty well up until this point if only a few out of several hundred players have caused problems. If it becomes a bigger problem, you can always up the disincentives (e.g. you have to sit out two years instead of one). Really though, if one out of every few hundred players feels so strongly that they're willing to make major sacrifices, I don't see the problem in giving them a bit of wiggle room.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

David Stern just has to say that playing in the Olympics for the Chinese government( which gets the buyout) counts as playing professionally and the Bucks retain his rights. Then let Yi sit out the Olympics or sit out two seasons.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

MemphisX said:


> David Stern just has to say that playing in the Olympics for the Chinese government( which gets the buyout) counts as playing professionally and the Bucks retain his rights. Then let Yi sit out the Olympics or sit out two seasons.


Not sure that would work. Players don't get paid for Olympic play, so technically it's not "professional" basketball. It's more like volunteer work.


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

Confuscious say : Man with dick on head can't see for nuts


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

*Yi*

Just heard on espn that Yi would accept a trade with Sacramento, but nothing has been said about a trade.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

I really don't understand where all this "communist Chinese government" intervention talk is coming from. 

I heard about it during Yao's run, but not so much for Yi. No one other than message board posters and some site called "shanghaisucks" have mentioned it. When I typed in "yi jianlian chinese government" on google, I didn't get much.

The link below shows a guy who seems like he knows what he's talking about.


http://forums.interbasket.net/showpost.php?p=69638&postcount=39



> "The first player behind Yi, who I think you were trying to refer to, is the Chinese Basketball Management Center, sometimes referred to as "CBA officials". This is a governmental appointed office, and it's not much different than a combination of NBA headquarter and USA Basketball. The only thing the CBMC has over Yi is the permission, in the form of clearance letters, to play abroad (as written in FIBA regulations). This Yi has already gotten."





> "The real people behind Yi are actually "Guangdong Southern Tigers Basketball Club". This is a very interesting relationship, since to play in the NBA Yi has to come out of his contract with his former team before he can sign a new one. While basketball-wise he has probably done so, financially he has not. Guangdong club is loosely associated with the local government (Guangdong Provincial Sports Management Center) but is one of the most privatized teams in China (a key reason to their success), owned by Guangdong Winnerway Group Corporation (GWGC). GMGC is one of the biggest real estate corporations in China, based in Dongguan, Guangdong. They own hotels, foreign language schools, medicine, sports teams and all sorts of businesses.
> 
> CMBA has no people with Yi right now in the US (although some are with the China NT in Dallas which Yi is supposed to join shortly). But a lot of people from Guangdong club are in the US accompanying Yi, including GM/President Chen Haitao (who also owns another trade company in Dongguan), Vice President Liu Hongjiang, and others whose names I can't keep track of. *These are all capitalists, not communists, FYI.* I am not an insider but my guess is these are the people insisting on a big market with a lot of Asians. My suspicion is Yi will help GWGC get more of their products and businesses to America."


Makes a little more sense and correlates to state-run Chinese newspaper opinion polls actually saying they think he should play for the Bucks.


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## lorgg (Dec 8, 2003)

Dornado said:


> The league should really compensate the Bucks if this happens... I mean, I know they took the risk in drafting him, but you can't let international players strong-arm the draft process like this. The point of the draft is that you get assigned to the team that takes you... if Yi wanted to avoid this he could have come in later as a free agent and negotiated a nice landing spot. I know this re-entering the draft thing is in the CBA, but it doesn't seem particularly fair...


Not just international players, Steve Francis did it to Vancouver years ago.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

One rule that would still allow the player freedom, but help negate all this lobbying.

If a player refuses to play for the team that drafts said player, their new salary amount would start at the league minimum with incremental raises over the next four years. The acquiring team would have to still pay the player's original salary, with the difference going to the team losing that player. This would help compensate the team losing the player with usual lowball trade offers as well as make it a much tougher decision for the player. For top picks, they could lose more than $15 million in guaranteed salary money.

You could even take this a step further and say the player could never earn more than the normal raise amount over the previous salary, even when signing a contract with a new team. Then it becomes a question of what's more important - guaranteed NBA salary or endorsements.

Public private workouts would also help. A team can work a player out, but their doors should remain open for other teams scouts as well.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Dornado said:


> Apparently they mentioned on the Score that a bunch of Bucks players (Charlie Villanueva included) flew out to meet with Yi in Las Vegas, tell him about the city, etc... and that when they waited for him to come out after the game he walked right by them... not acknowledging them. So apparently the Bucks players don't want him around now... and Larry Harris really has a mess on his hands...


I heard that too from Hanley but it was the entire team. What a mess.
Sacramento Milwaukee what's the difference?


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

spongyfungy said:


> I heard that too from Hanley but it was the entire team. What a mess.
> Sacramento Milwaukee what's the difference?


Believe it or not, Sacramento is one of the more culturally diverse areas in the nation. I went to school there and there are studies that back this up.


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