# The Run 'n Gun Suns: 2004-2010



## Seuss

Although the style of play will be very similiar, it just won't be the same. I think it's safe to say the Run 'n Gun Suns era has come to an end. (You could argue it ended in '08 when we traded Marion). I don't really count last year, but there are a few memorable moments.

I think we should be posting some of our favorite moments. A little reminiscing for our own sake.


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## l0st1

I'll post more later


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## l0st1

A few more off the top of my head, all obvious ones.














A compilation of explosive Phoenix Amare(NY Amare is a mess)


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## Maravilla

It must be done.


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## l0st1

ha, I was going to put that one up too. It's a lot harder than I thought it would be to come up with specific moments. Plenty of stuff to talk about not so much specific clips.


I mean those backdoor cuts by LB on the baseline. Marion pogosticking an offensive rebound or his ridiculous one handed floaters. Amare's posters in the lane like...






Or go back to Q's head bump after every 3. Ugh, can't believe that team couldn't catch a break and get a title. Definitely had 2 or 3 years where we were right there with everyone.


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## l0st1

Oh got a couple more


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## l0st1

I remember those last 2 games. Was so much fun watching those.


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## Hyperion

these were great times. Rep to anyone who posts a vid in this thread.


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## Dissonance

04-05 compilation








Amare block on Miller to end game in 04-05 season


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## Maravilla

The catch 22 about this thread and this team.. is for all the good memories that I think of.. I can think of the most depressing memories of my life as well. NOT posting those. Those have been rehashed plenty.


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## Maravilla

That Amare block on Miller makes me think that he did that twice that season (regular season.. not Duncan) dammit when we thought Amare would be the best PF in the league for years to come.


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## Seuss

Pat Burke! Almost forgot about that Irish man.


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## Hyperion

chilltown said:


> The catch 22 about this thread and this team.. is for all the good memories that I think of.. I can think of the most depressing memories of my life as well. NOT posting those. Those have been rehashed plenty.


You don't truly know how much you love something until you lose it.


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## l0st1

Still can't believe we couldn't make it through once. Definitely depressing (

But still a lot of great moments. Grea thread


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## Dissonance

This team was screwed more times than Jenna Jameson. Between injuries for games, parts of games, the suspensions, bad calls. 


Not even counting all the fluky shit that happened. About worse luck than maybe any team in NBA history. ALWAYS SOMETHING.


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## Seuss

The "thing" that I really feel the Suns were missing all those years were two guys that could elevate their game at the same time. Steve Nash could elevate his game from being a great passer, to being a great scorer and that helped change dynamics. But when we had Amare in the playoffs, I can't remember any games where I felt he truly elevated his game to another level. Sure, he scored a lot in quite a few series, but on the defensive end did he take it to the level he could have? Or even take over the game when Nash couldn't get a good look? We just needed ONE more guy that could affect a game on that kind of level. We never had him. So, yeah, we have excuses, but great teams that win championships always have TWO guys that have the ability to elevate their game.


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## Maravilla

Seuss said:


> The "thing" that I really feel the Suns were missing all those years were two guys that could elevate their game at the same time. Steve Nash could elevate his game from being a great passer, to being a great scorer and that helped change dynamics. But when we had Amare in the playoffs, I can't remember any games where I felt he truly elevated his game to another level. Sure, he scored a lot in quite a few series, but on the defensive end did he take it to the level he could have? Or even take over the game when Nash couldn't get a good look? We just needed ONE more guy that could affect a game on that kind of level. We never had him. So, yeah, we have excuses, but great teams that win championships always have TWO guys that have the ability to elevate their game.


I think that in 2004-2005 Amare was that guy. He dominated offensively and definitely stepped his activity level up everywhere.. I rip Amare a lot be he has always been one to raise his game in some way in the playoffs.. 

I'm not sure we were deep enough in 2004-2005 anyways, but the thing that killed us was Joe Johnson breaking his face. He was that guy to create his own shot when the offense stalled. Obviously he left that year and we never had a wing who could create anything until we brought in JRich like 5 years later.


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## Dissonance

Our best team was suspensions season. Such a different team that yr. Even down Doris and Amare we had a lead all game or most of it, still almost went up 3-2 on SA. I think we take it that yr. Once we lost that, broke the team mentally, lost momentum and I knew were losing with em back.


Yeah even with JJ we had no depth, wouldn't have made a difference.


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## Maravilla

Yeah we were definitely too shallow in 04-05. I'm just saying it was that gap in between JJ and JRich that really hurt us as far as not having a legit wing threat.


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## Dissonance

Oh yeah, definitely agree. All just spot up shooters til then or needed Nash.


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## Hyperion

Bell was a great 3pt shooter with Marion slashing. In terms of playmaking, no, there was a dearth of sg talent in the NBA, hell there still is a dearth of talent. JJ is still a top 5 sg in the league no matter how you slice it.


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## Maravilla

Hyperion said:


> Bell was a great 3pt shooter with Marion slashing. In terms of playmaking, no, there was a dearth of sg talent in the NBA, hell there still is a dearth of talent. JJ is still a top 5 sg in the league no matter how you slice it.


Right. I love both of those players, but both largely depended on Nash to get their looks. Marion is a hell of a player... but an iso player he was not. The closest thing we had was Barbosa.


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## Seuss

I agree. Our best team was during the suspension playoff series: Nash, Bell, Marion, Amare, and Thomas, but we didn't have the right coach.


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## Seuss

Mix from the 04-05 Season:


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## l0st1

Nash, JJ, Marion, Amare... Big 4 before it became cool?


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## gi0rdun

Just about to watch every video in this thread.

Question for the Suns fans... Which was the best edition of the Run n Gun Suns?


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## Dissonance

Answered it already but 2007 suspensions team.


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## Dissonance




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## Seuss

Damn that 06-07 team was so epic. I would of loved to see that series with each team at its full capacity for the whole series.


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## Seuss

Probably the most inspiring playoff game in Nash's career:


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## Basel

**** Tim Thomas.


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## Dissonance

Basel said:


> **** Tim Thomas.
















Agreed. Except for those playoffs.


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## Seuss

D'Antoni joining the Lakers . . . I had to go watch the Suns 06-07 season highlights to reminisce. The closest the Suns were to being able to win a championship. That team was so damn entertaining.


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## Dissonance

I really miss these days. We'll never get that back and it'll be a long while before we ever get to any kind of level to contend. It's depressing. And it's not like the NFL where you can turn it around quickly.


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## RollWithEm

I still blame Sarver's Joe Johnson decision for the dismantling of this potential dynasty.


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## Dissonance

It was a myriad of bad decisions.


Bad luck too.


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## Maravilla

RollWithEm said:


> I still blame Sarver's Joe Johnson decision for the dismantling of this potential dynasty.


That was the first of many MANY mistakes. Definitely the biggest IMO though. After that season the Suns lacked a wing player who could create for himself until Jason Richardson. By that point, Marion was gone and we were already downhill imo.


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## l0st1

Definitely despressing to think that we could of gotten a ring or two had a couple things happened differently(or not happened) or if Sarver had not cheaped out ( honestly after the amount of money you spent you are going to cheap out over like $5M?)

Continues to suck to be a Suns fan. Though not as bad as some other franchises.


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## Seuss

Joe Johnson is garbage. He is quite possibly the worst wannabe all-star guard in the league. He's a glorified pull-up shooter. 
I'm glad the Suns did not throw big money at him, because he wouldn't have added as much versatility as we found later on (Diaw, Grant Hill, Bell).


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## Dissonance

Yep. We were better off with what we could do and then our 06-07 yr being our best team. Also, would've cost us to dump Marion for nothing - worse than Shaq. 


Not sure how it affects that team later but trading Rondo and our prearranged deal with Bulls were worse. Former exec David Griffin fought for us to pick and keep Rondo before agreeing to that trade. We used more $ to pay for... Marcus Banks. Then we kept our commitment (something W's didn't do for us later on) to trading the pick for what allowed Bulls to get Deng because we thought Iggy wouldn't be there.


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## l0st1

Seuss said:


> Joe Johnson is garbage. He is quite possibly the worst wannabe all-star guard in the league. He's a glorified pull-up shooter.
> I'm glad the Suns did not throw big money at him, because he wouldn't have added as much versatility as we found later on (Diaw, Grant Hill, Bell).


5/$70M is big money? I'd say a solid offensive player who could defend very well. Great size and quickness at the time. And had zero behavioral issues is well worth that money. And quite honestly had we gotten a little time to try and build a bench with the core of Nash, JJ, Marion,Amare we would of been fine. And still had the bi-annual to get Hill. We definitely could of filled out the roster on smaller contracts or ring chasers had this core been given a little longer.




Dissonance said:


> Yep. We were better off with what we could do and then our 06-07 yr being our best team. Also, would've cost us to dump Marion for nothing - worse than Shaq.
> 
> 
> Not sure how it affects that team later but trading Rondo and our prearranged deal with Bulls were worse. Former exec David Griffin fought for us to pick and keep Rondo before agreeing to that trade. We used more $ to pay for... Marcus Banks. Then we kept our commitment (something W's didn't do for us later on) to trading the pick for what allowed Bulls to get Deng because we thought Iggy wouldn't be there.


Marion was a baby that whined all the time. If anything it would of caused us to trade him earlier and possibly gotten a real return on him. And yes the Rondo/Iggy trades were disasters. But who knows what Rondo would of done as a backup(mind you D'Antoni was not about playing depth/rookies). But yes a lineup of Nash, Johnson, Iggy, Marion, Amare would of been insane. 3 very good defenders on the wing and offense everywhere.


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## Maravilla

I agree with lost. JJs firsr big contract was very reasonable. (he wanted 45 million the year before he hit the market but sarver didnt pony up). Diaw was a one year-Nash wonder. We all fell in love with him but them our FO paid him mistakenly to not repeat the same mistake with JJ the year prior. And then he got fat and lazy ( and plain wouldnt shoot the ball.. EVER.) Honestly had it worked out perfectly we should have had JJ for the contract that Diaw ended up getting (40 mil I think?) And still had Barbosa to the deal he had.

I am a huge marion fan, but according to many who are close to the suns, gambo included, he was a pain in the locker room and hated playing 3rd fiddle to nash and amare.

Anyways... I dont want to discuss all of the events that transpired to blow up this team. This version of the suns was just a glorious tragedy lol. We all know everything that happened. Just too painful.


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## l0st1

chilltown said:


> I agree with lost. JJs firsr big contract was very reasonable. (he wanted 45 million the year before he hit the market but sarver didnt pony up). Diaw was a one year-Nash wonder. We all fell in love with him but them our FO paid him mistakenly to not repeat the same mistake with JJ the year prior. And then he got fat and lazy ( and plain wouldnt shoot the ball.. EVER.) Honestly had it worked out perfectly we should have had JJ for the contract that Diaw ended up getting (40 mil I think?) And still had Barbosa to the deal he had.
> 
> I am a huge marion fan, but according to many who are close to the suns, gambo included, he was a pain in the locker room and hated playing 3rd fiddle to nash and amare.
> 
> Anyways... I dont want to discuss all of the events that transpired to blow up this team. This version of the suns was just a glorious tragedy lol. We all know everything that happened. Just too painful.


Just like we usually are, we are on the same page when it comes to the Suns. Joe Johnson got super hyped after he signed the contract in ATL. He upped his play but he never should of been THE guy on a team. He's a #2 on a real team. Had we gotten him for the 5/$50 that he reportedly wanted(I think it was) we could of resigned LB to the contract he had(then used that as a trade chip as interest was pretty high on him) and still had Marion to float out around the league.

Marion by all accounts was a disaster on that team. He was constantly moody and pissy because of his role. That's why they moved him for Shaq(speaks volumes that we essentially salary dumped him). Wasn't there some rumor that a Marion for KG swap was on the table? Wonder if they would do that if we tossed LB in too. Amare,KG, JJ, Nash. Throw in a 3rd rotational big in the mold of Robin Lopez who can defend and run and a SF that can shoot and defend(like Bruce Bowen/Shane Battier or even Bi-Annual for Grant Hill) and then fill out the roster with smaller deals.

I have no idea the salary implications but we had options. Instead Sarver cheaped out despite the recommendations of ALL the basketball minds in our front office telling him to sign the contract for JJ. And that was the beginning of an historically poor run by management


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## Dissonance

I can understand Sarver's POV. Putting him the $ he did for the franchise, signing Nash and Q to those big deals. JJ actually wanted more than what we offered. Whatever it was. But he hadn't lived up to anything like that warrants at that time in FO's view. Marion whined, maybe bad in the locker room but he sucked it up and still played his ass off. And guess what? If the guys didn't like him or had problems - it didn't impact us on the court as it shouldn't. They're pros. We were in first place when he got dealt. We didn't have to do anything with him (he he had a player option). But I would keep him always over JJ. His defense and skill set was perfect for the team. Signing JJ probably means more of a salary dump for actually nothing and probably sooner than when we actually traded Marion. There was no way we could keep Amare, Marion, JJ, Nash, add in Q, at those prices - throw in a bench. Either way, we somehow recovered from both losses of them, kept contending, had our best team ever in 06-07, somehow made it to WCF in final season 2010. Though Our biggest mistake, I'll touch on that below. 


Rumored deal was Marion going to Boston in 3 way with KG to us but Marion declined a MAX extension on top of his high salary. Dumb move on his part because he never saw anything close to it. Then other was Amare to ATL, KG to us, and picks/expirings to Wolves. Suns were KG's first choice and Kerr stepping into a new job didn't want to do anything ballsy. I bet he wishes he could get that back. Again, we recovered from it but so many what could have beens. We had a big thread about here, I was ready to ship Amare or Marion or whatever out for KG. I actually preferred keeping Marion because of how devastating KG/Marion would be defensively. It's funny to think now how Amare was such an untouchable. He was never going to live up to it and actually play defense.


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## Maravilla

Yeah I remember he boston deal that marion nixed. Ive said since that day that that will be the only reason I would dislike him... And it was a good one. That and he would pretty much disappear vs the spurs every year.

I dont think keeping JJ would have meant shipping Marion though.. At least any sooner than they did anyways. Also keep in mind that although we were in 1st place in the west at the time of the deal, we were something awful against legit competition that year. FYI I hated that trade but tried making the most of it after it was finalized.. 

I think we should just pin the blame on them saving money by passing on Iguodala/Deng and opting to sign Quentin... Just sayin. And yes I still say that they were morons because we would have taken Iggy, but made a stupid agreement before knpwing he would be there. Would have been happy with either though.


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## l0st1

Dissonance said:


> I can understand Sarver's POV. Putting him the $ he did for the franchise, signing Nash and Q to those big deals. JJ actually wanted more than what we offered. Whatever it was. But he hadn't lived up to anything like that warrants at that time in FO's view. Marion whined, maybe bad in the locker room but he sucked it up and still played his ass off. And guess what? If the guys didn't like him or had problems - it didn't impact us on the court as it shouldn't. They're pros. We were in first place when he got dealt. We didn't have to do anything with him (he he had a player option). But I would keep him always over JJ. His defense and skill set was perfect for the team. Signing JJ probably means more of a salary dump for actually nothing and probably sooner than when we actually traded Marion. There was no way we could keep Amare, Marion, JJ, Nash, add in Q, at those prices - throw in a bench. Either way, we somehow recovered from both losses of them, kept contending, had our best team ever in 06-07, somehow made it to WCF in final season 2010. Though Our biggest mistake, I'll touch on that below.
> 
> 
> Rumored deal was Marion going to Boston in 3 way with KG to us but Marion declined a MAX extension on top of his high salary. Dumb move on his part because he never saw anything close to it. Then other was Amare to ATL, KG to us, and picks/expirings to Wolves. Suns were KG's first choice and Kerr stepping into a new job didn't want to do anything ballsy. I bet he wishes he could get that back. Again, we recovered from it but so many what could have beens. We had a big thread about here, I was ready to ship Amare or Marion or whatever out for KG. I actually preferred keeping Marion because of how devastating KG/Marion would be defensively. It's funny to think now how Amare was such an untouchable. He was never going to live up to it and actually play defense.


Ya keeping JJ may of put more pressure on the front office to balance the books and salary dump someone. But also if we were makign WCF/Finals appearances or with some luck landed a ring, I don't see Sarver breaking it up as the Playoff revenue would of counterbalanced the relatively higher payroll. And we still could of dumped Q for Thomas or another shooter that was cheaper. There were plenty of options, but they elected to let a very good 2way wing player go because he wanted pennies more(yes I realize millions but what' a couple million more in the NBA?)

I don't remember the 3way deal with ATL. But that minny trade was a mess. I'd probably be ok with either Amare or Marion going to minny for KG but preferred for me was Marion. Amare dominating offense KG dominating defense. And as we could tell in Boston KG's defense is infectious. Could of really been what we needed. But Marion's dumbass didn't like getting paid like a superstar when he is a bonafide secondary player as was shown when he left here.


So many missteps by our front office, starting with sarver, then going to Duh'toni and then on to Kerr. We never gambled when we should of and always gambled when it made no sense.


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## Hyperion

They gave 8 million a year to Diaw and 4 million a year to Banks. Yeah, lots of pressure.


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## cima

I'm late to this thread lol but I'm not so sure the 06-07 Suns are better than the 04-05 Suns. Neither team had great bench depth (04-05 had Barbosa, Jackson, 06-07 had Thomas, Barbosa, Jones) but 04-05 Amare was a super beast and > than 06-07 Amare. Plus Joe Johnson > Raja Bell. But 06-07 was better on defense, though they still weren't great...

This is an extremely tough call and if they played 100 times, I wouldn't be surprised at a 50-50 split.


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## Dissonance

While he was ungodly to guard pre-surgery. I prefer Amare with added deadly jumpshot and was still beastly inside. Obviously. would've hoped he'd have added that even without the injury but we never got to see it. 

Plus, 06-07 Suns weren't as green. More experience and cohesion. You can't look at just individually as JJ > Bell or etc. Depth was better later on. Jackson was also a corpse then. Thomas, Barbosa (who wasn't in mental mode as he was), and Jones actually provided something. Starters didn't kill themselves min wise. Diaw was also newly added element that other team didn't have.


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## cima

Well if you look at their records and stats as a team, they are nearly identical. 06 was better defensively, but not substantially better.

I like the 04-05 team for two reasons, and that is Amare and Joe Johnson. Yes Amare developed a better jump shot over time, but individually his best seasons were 04-05 and 07-08 from a PER and Win Share standpoint. Plus I just can't help but remember how he made Tim Duncan his bitch in the WCF averaging 37 PPG. And then there's Joe Johnson, he not only gave us another wing player who could create offensively, but he was DEADLY from 3 point range that year. Like almost 50% deadly. If he didn't break his face, history may be telling a different story. Well that and if Shawn Marion actually showed up on offense.


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