# How do you rate the new Lakers (by position)?



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

I don´t want to get too optimistic about this team, but i do believe Mitch could have done a much worse job reshaping the Lakers *given the circunstances*. (them being Phil getting the axe, Shaq wanting out, Malone still pondering his future).

*PG:* Atkins, Banks and Vujacic.

I believe a Payton/Fisher was a better PG tandem, although the glove didn´t fit well into the system. On the other hand, he was due for a good year after scrapping off the triangle offense.

I´m not too familiar with these guys, but for what i´ve read, i´d say we have ourselves a promising PG situation.

Atkins is not a distributer, nor a defensive specialist, and he´s kind of small. Will shoot the 3. He´s the veteran of the bunch, and won´t be called upon to set people up. Kobe and Odom will take care of the ball and create. i wouldn´t say he´s starter material. 
Banks is a lightning quick, defensive-orientated youngster, wich are great qualities to have in our PG. On the other hand, he´s not a shooter and often plays out of control. In the right system and with progress in ball handling and shooting, he could very well be our PG of the future. But he doesn´t apear ready yet.
Vujacic is virtually unknown to me. I´ve read some summer league reports who said he has good shooting form and distance, plays a little defense, hustles a lot and gets vocal on court. But he is a foreign rookie and will take him time to contribute in a major way.

*GRADE:* C

*SG:* Bryant and Rush

Kobe is the #1 SG in the NBA in my book: good-to-great defender and unstopable on offense. He will be called upon to carry this team and i bet :gopray: he will get the job done.
Rush as been of slow but steady progression. Seems tentative at times on the court but we need his shooting off the bench. A suitable back up who needs to take his game higher.

*GRADE*: A-

*SF*: Odom, Butler, George and Walton

With the Mihm signing, Odom should be the incumbent SF. Health and head could be issues, but if he is 100%, he should be a great SF and a HUGE upgrade from last year. He will rebound and pass a plenty, but he will need to improve his offensive game and make teams pay for doubling and triple teaming Kobe. He is young, quick and versatile, although he´s not known for his defense. I´m very eager to watch him play with the Lakeshow.
Butler and Walton (who can play PF) are good back ups, and Butler could be a great 6th man: hustles, defends and has a good ofensive repertoire. Walton will be called upon to move the ball, shoot the ocasional jumper and help a little with the rest. George, of course, is a bust an i would trafe him straight up for a bag of peanuts....

*GRADE:* A-

*PF: * Grant, Slava and Cook.

If only we could fuse Grant and Slava we would have a hell of a PF!! Grant hustles, defends and rebounds. He is not a scorer nor an intimidator, but should get the job done. Slava continues to puzzle me. Last year he had a couple of really good games (although no defense whatsoever again) and appeared to make strides in the right direction. Appeared lost on court few games after. Hope he continues to mature, for he is a good scorer. Cook doesn´t seem to have the game (and minutes) to contribute this year. 

*GRADE:* B-

*C:* Divac and Mihm

Divac is old and slow, and not much of a shot-blocking menace. On the other hand he´s smart, a great passer and has a great attitude. Needs to commit more to rebounding, screening and finding the open man. Durability could be an issue.
Mihm is a solid back-up. Will rebound and score some and take a space in the middle. Could be worse.

*GRADE:* C+

I like our new coach and i´m really looking forward to next season. With the right chemistry, thies Laker team could go far.

What do you say?


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Atkings,Banks,Sasha

C

Kobe,Rush

A

Butler,Odom,George,Walton

B+

Grant,Slava,Cook

D

Divac, Mihm

C-


----------



## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

> *PF: * Grant, Slava and Cook.
> 
> If only we could fuse Grant and Slava we would have a hell of a PF!! Grant hustles, defends and rebounds. He is not a scorer nor an intimidator, but should get the job done. Slava continues to puzzle me. Last year he had a couple of really good games (although no defense whatsoever again) and appeared to make strides in the right direction. Appeared lost on court few games after. Hope he continues to mature, for he is a good scorer. Cook doesn´t seem to have the game (and minutes) to contribute this year.
> 
> *GRADE:* B-


IMO, D-

Grant is nothing good, Slava and Cook are nothing.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

*PG: Chucky Atkins, Marcus Banks, Sasha Vujacic*
*Grade:* C
Right now, these guys are all just good PGs. With these PGs, we have good outside shooting, speed, good ball-handling and tough defense. However, one individual player is not above average. Marcus Banks might develop into a star in the middle of the season, but we're average at the PG spot right now.

*SG: Kobe Bryant, Kareem Rush
Grade:* A
Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryant and Kareem Rush is a very good backup. We are probably the best set team in the league at SG.

*SF: Lamar Odom, Caron Butler, Devean George, Luke Walton
Grade:* A-
We're very deep at this position. We have good scoring here, defense, passing and rebounding. I couldn't really imagine us being much better here, but we don't have a superstar, so I won't give us an A.

*PF: Brian Grant, Slava Medvedenko, Brian Cook
Grade:* C
People are really underestimating Brian Grant. He is a good finisher around the hoop, a good mid-range shooter, a good defender and a good rebounder. I've been giving Brian Cook a hard time, but after thinking about it for a while...I think he'll do much better in a faster paced game. Slava is still a project, and he needs HUGE work on his defense, but he sure can fill it up. So yeah, I'd say we're pretty average here.

*C: Vlade Divac, Chris Mihm
Grade:* B
Vlade Divac and Chris Mihm is a very very nice set of Cs to have. It's probably up there with the top eight in the league. However, none of these guys are even close to being stars, so a B rating fits well.


----------



## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Grant is underrated*

PG Atkins C+

PG/SG Vujacic/Banks C-

SG Bryant, Rush A-

SF Odom, Walton, George, Butler B+

PF Grant, Medvedenko C

C Divac, Mihm C+


----------



## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> Atkings,Banks,Sasha
> 
> C
> ...


I agree with these ratings.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hov</b>!
> 
> I agree with these ratings.


:rbanana: :banana: :vbanana: :bbanana:


----------



## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

PG - Atkins, "Jar Jar" Banks, Vujacic: C

SG - Bryant, Rush: A

SF - Odom, Butler, Little Bill, George: A- (it would be an A but the "-" represents George).

PF - Grant, Sla-va Med-va-denk-o, Cook: D (If Malone comes back this grade will be a B)

C - Divac, Mihm: B-


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

PG B
sg A
sf A
pf D-
C B. 

We are in very deep trouble at the pf spot. Only source of real trouble. We have versatility everywhere else. 

Problem is pf is the worst postion to have trouble in the Western Conference. 

We have the best sg in the league,we have a top 10 sf , we have a top 10 center in Divac.

At pg we have a top 5 defender in Banks. 


The only concern I have on the whole Lakers team is interior defense . 

Defense is where you win in this league and we have no real shot blockers. Teams will try and attack us at the basket. 

My other concern has been dealt with and that was pg defense. I had no confidence that GP could defend anyone out front. Now with Banks we are tremendous defensively out front. 

Kobe and Banks might well be the league best defensive backcourts. Maybe even the leagues most athletic backcourts. 

We really need Malone to comeback we have no quality depth at the pf spot. 

You measure quality depth by experience and ability to defend. People I think don't understand this. Its not offense that measures your teams effectiveness its the ability to defend. 


Marcus Banks at C is too low. Not an A but when he starts generating fastbreaks with his smothering defense people will recognize then. 

GP we thought would give us some of that but didn't.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> PG B
> sg A
> sf A
> ...


While I see your point about Banks, people seem to forget the Payton was great in the beginning of the season, because Phil let the team run free, once playoffs came around Phil decided it was time to slow down. Hurting Payton. Payton did deliver you the fastbreak. The reason I give the PG's a C is because right now you don't even know who your starting PG is, and to base a grade on what you HOPE a player will be able to accomplish isn't fair. You could go either way with all the other grades I suppose, depends on what you feel. Plus the whole defense thing that I put in bold would go against your B rating for Vlade and Mihm would it not? Considering neither of them have a lick of defense in terms of intimidation and blocking shots. Vlade is a great offensive palyer, and can really get a offense running smoothly, and can even get you a few hookshots or what not, and was a great pick-up, but in terms of interior defense he lacks that...


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

All I know is when you have Kobe Bryant at the SG, you need an A+ for the position. It's as simple as that.

Also Rush and Bobbitt, are both deep shooters (although Bobbitt might not play much), who can stretch a defense. 

I am eager to see how a Kobe/Rush/Odom perimeter unit works from time to time. I think Rush can get a lot of open looks from that lineup.


----------



## U reach. I teach (May 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> All I know is when you have Kobe Bryant at the SG, you need an A+ for the position. It's as simple as that.


I agree. Nobody in the L is better at that position, and few teams in history are better at that position.


----------



## JYD (Sep 3, 2002)

PG: Atkins...Banks...Vujacic.../ C+

SG: Bryant...Rush...Bobbitt.../ A+

SF: Odom...C. Butler...George...Walton.../ A

PF: B. Grant...Medvedenko...Cook.../ B-
-or-
PF: Malone...B. Grant...Medvedenko...Cook.../ B+

C: Divac...Mihm.../ C+

Coach: Tomjanovich...Rambis...Hamblen...Shaw.../ B+


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Bobbitt is signed to a non-guaranteed contract. He is just signed on for the preseason. He hasn't actually made the team.


----------



## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

PG: Atkins...Banks...Vujacic.../ C

SG: Bryant...Rush...Bobbitt.../ A

SF: Odom...C. Butler...George...Walton...B+

PF: B. Grant...Medvedenko...Cook.../ C-

C: Divac...Mihm.../ C+

Coach: Tomjanovich...Rambis...Hamblen...Shaw.../ A


We just have to see how the mesh on the court. Remember Lakers fans, what is on paper isn't everything!!


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>texan</b>!
> PG: Atkins...Banks...Vujacic.../ C
> 
> SG: Bryant...Rush...Bobbitt.../ A
> ...


Truer words could never be spoken... (I'm not sure if truer is a word)


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Positional rankings don't mean much, chemistry and team defense means much more. If Rudy can put it together, barring a Peja for Artest trade, I think the Lakers can finish 3rd seed in the West.


----------



## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

PG: B-

Banks and Vujacic are both potential stars but neither are great, yet.

SG: A-

Kobe's great, but Rush is a little overrated. He's nothing more than a spot up shooter,and honestly, I think that mostly had to do with Shaq (except for the minny closer, which was just an exceptional game, but not his norm).

SF: B+

Completely stacked. George is the only player who shouldn't be a starter someday. Love Walton's hustle.

PF: F

Just plain horrible. Will get beaten to hell by the elite western conference power forwards.

C: D-

Vlade's not good for much anymore besides interior passing. He's so slow that he's going to be completely useless in transition, which is what you all will be doing more than anything. His defense isn't very good anymore, and the refs don't buy the flops.

Above average to good team. High playoff possibility because of the lack of defense played in the regular season.


----------



## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> Divac, Mihm
> 
> C-


You gave Vlade C- grade? So cruel... :upset:


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Lynx</b>!
> 
> 
> You gave Vlade C- grade? So cruel... :upset:


No i gave Vlade and Mihm a C-, and Vlade was on his last legs playing for us, he wasn't hustling, he wasn't rebounding, and he wasn't blocking shots. He's great for offense, but as far as defense goes he is awful.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Thanx guys for the imput (yes, even you, SacKings!!!)

One question: why are y'all down on he PF position? I really believe Brian Grant would do all right next year.
Sure he isn´t gonna blow your mind with above the rim play and scoring outbursts, but (although vastly overpaid) he is the kinda player we once dreamed of having (in the AC Green, Grant, Walker days): he will hustle, he will crash the boards, he will put a body on people.

I know he isn´t a scorer, but then again, we don´t need more than 10ppg for his spot...
Am i wrong about the guy´s game (not contract)?


----------



## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PauloCatarino</b>!
> Thanx guys for the imput (yes, even you, SacKings!!!)
> 
> One question: why are y'all down on he PF position? I really believe Brian Grant would do all right next year.
> ...



Moving back to PF will help his game out but moven back out West haven to play with the big boys ever night will hurt his game. I can see him still averaging 9 or 10 points but I think his boards will drop a little bit. Plus he just got a year older. He is average at best and worthy of a C or C+ rating. No one is underrating him.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PauloCatarino</b>!
> Thanx guys for the imput *(yes, even you, SacKings!!!)*
> 
> One question: why are y'all down on he PF position? I really believe Brian Grant would do all right next year.
> ...


:greatjob: 

Only reason I am down on him is because he is too small for a C and in fact is too small for a PF, granted you can have small guys come in and do some dirty work, but not as your post defender, and really, your only rebounder... I say you put Odom at the 4, and for one reason and one reason only, he wasn't that great with the Clippers, the place where he played SF, in which he stuck to the perimeter. They moved him to Miami, (well he moved to Miami) and he switched to the 4, in which he played well, was able ro use his quickness, and finish around the basket. But sometimes he would float around the perimeter (like a 3 forward would) and his game would dramatically decrease... Keep him at the 4, away from the threes and perimeter game and this could will give you a solid 18 every night... Only problem with that is that he isn't too great of a defender and that is key against guys like Duncan KG and yes Webber...


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

SacKing,

Grant is undersized if he were to play C, but definitely not PF. He's about the average height, good wing span, and solider body than most at his position. If Malone is back like Mitch believes he will be if healthy, Grant would be playing about 13-15 mpg, which is actually perfect for a guy his age (32) that has relatively poor knees. I think Grant would be great in limited PT, much better than he would be at 30 mpg or more. 

Center is still a problem though, yes. Divac is fine offensively, but he better change his attitude or his defense will suck yet again. Hopefully Divac and Malone teach Mihm something so he can become an elite defender in limited PT at the 5. With Malone back, the 5 would be the only position of concern defensively.


----------



## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

This Laker team should be very interesting, especially since there have been so many moves made. 



To me, the PG position will hurt the Lakers for now, but they have done a nice job of bringing in versatile players that allow the PG to play a role similar to Fisher/Harper of the years past. Divac can pass the ball very well, Odom too, so those two should be able to make up some slack. However, TO's will be a problem, because Odom turns it over every-other possession, Divac turns the ball over more than the average center, Kobe Bryant gets his fair share of turnovers, and the Banks/Vujacic combination should provide plenty of TO's as well. 



All in all, LA should still be a competitive team, but someone from the PG and/or PF position has to step up for them to be a #3 seed out West.


----------



## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

Divac is only good in half-court offense, which the Lakers won't be playing a lot of. He'll also have to sit out a lot when he gets tired from running up and down the court and then that's when you'll be the most exposed.

Malone, if back, is an improvement over Grant. Still, I don't see him being much use except for defense.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> SacKing,
> 
> Grant is undersized if he were to play C, but definitely not PF. He's about the average height, good wing span, and solider body than most at his position. If Malone is back like Mitch believes he will be if healthy, Grant would be playing about 13-15 mpg, which is actually perfect for a guy his age (32) that has relatively poor knees. I think Grant would be great in limited PT, much better than he would be at 30 mpg or more.
> ...


He's 6'9... Duncan is 7'0 Garnett is listed at 6'11 even though I am pretty sure he is 7 foot... Webber is only 6'10... Vlades attitude won't change, Webber already spoke of his poor work ethic. The Lakers didn't sign Vlade for defensive prescence... They signed him for lockerroom leadership, and his passing... Although, i don't know what kind of offense the Lakers will run, but I'm almost positive it won't run through Vlade... So I don't know how effective Vlade will be. Of course, this is banking that Malone comes back 100%... Grant can be an energy hustle guy... That's exactly what he is... He is just not big enough... But if you are able to bring Grant Caron, Mihm and Banks off the bench, other than Mihm that is pure raw energy... That's what a bench needs... I'm just going by position and gave my ratings. It has zero outcome on the actual season...


----------



## U reach. I teach (May 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> He's 6'9... Duncan is 7'0 Garnett is listed at 6'11 even though I am pretty sure he is 7 foot... Webber is only 6'10


The average PF in the L is 6'9. Don't know where I read that, but I'll find it. Anyway, Malone is 6'9, Boozer is 6'9, Amare is 6'9, Zach Randolf is 6'9, and Brand is 6'8. Are they undersized to?


----------



## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> The average PF in the L is 6'9.


That's decieving because it includes all PFs, where starting PFs are much taller.


----------



## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>KokoTheMonkey</b>!
> This Laker team should be very interesting, especially since there have been so many moves made.
> 
> 
> ...


See you in playoffs aka Game 5 Koko...


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> That's decieving because it includes all PFs, where starting PFs are much taller.


Uh no, they aren't. And please take into account wing span, as height by itself means nothing without wing span.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> He's 6'9... Duncan is 7'0 Garnett is listed at 6'11 even though I am pretty sure he is 7 foot... Webber is only 6'10... Vlades attitude won't change, Webber already spoke of his poor work ethic. The Lakers didn't sign Vlade for defensive prescence... They signed him for lockerroom leadership, and his passing... Although, i don't know what kind of offense the Lakers will run, but I'm almost positive it won't run through Vlade... So I don't know how effective Vlade will be. Of course, this is banking that Malone comes back 100%... Grant can be an energy hustle guy... That's exactly what he is... He is just not big enough... But if you are able to bring Grant Caron, Mihm and Banks off the bench, other than Mihm that is pure raw energy... That's what a bench needs... I'm just going by position and gave my ratings. It has zero outcome on the actual season...


Malone was several inches shorter and did quite well against KG and Duncan last postseason. Shorter PFs can do just fine, height means jack without skill. And Duncan and KG both aren't really PFs, but that's another discussion.

And Divac isn't going to be running, he's a center. How many centers tires themselves out on the fast break? Not many. Most of them make outlet passes after getting a rebound, something Vlade is great at.


----------



## U reach. I teach (May 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> That's decieving because it includes all PFs, where starting PFs are much taller.


Well, name me another GOOD one outside of these five that are over an inch taller. KG, TD, Gasol, Dirk, J O'neal.


----------



## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

Yeah, there are tons of 7'0", 7'1" PFs riding the bench


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> Yeah, there are tons of 7'0", 7'1" PFs riding the bench


List all the starting PFs in the league and average their height. Here, off the top of my head: 

Sheed: 6-11
KMart: 6-9
Brand: 6-8
Amare: 6-10
Boozer: 6-10
Randolf: 6-9
Webber: 6-10
Jermaine: 6-11

So KG and TD are the only PFs in the league significantly taller with bigger wing spans. OMG, Grant is so damn undersized!  

Also, Jermaine, Amare, and Sheed have pretty long wing spans, everyone else is pretty proportional to their height from what I can remember.


----------



## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

I never claimed that Grant _was_ undersized. I claimed that the other power forwards are drastically better than he is, and that's why he'll be ineffective.

But what I did say was that 6'9" is not the average height of starting PFs. Maybe all PFs, but not of starters. You just listed all of the good PFs, and only 3 were 6'9" or shorter so yes.... he is a little bit undersized. His main problem, though, is that all those other PFs are better than he is.


----------



## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

i'm surprised how many fans believe the lakers are going to be mired in mediocrity for awhile. i just don't see it. if i were a laker fan, i'd be relatively satisfied with the team. i think there are some cagey veterans to serve as glue but, more importantly, i think there is some exciting youth on the squad- not to mention (arguably) the most dominant player on the planet.

i think caron butler is being underrated these days, possibly because he had been *overrated* for some time in 02/03, and is just now balancing his market value. i think he was anything but "filler" in the shaq trade, and gives the lakers another player with considerable "potential" (which doesn't necessarily mean anything, but is good to have if you're an optimist ). 

the only transaction i'd question is the trade with the celtics, but many fans/critics/league personalities are excited about marcus bell, so that may not matter. however, i'd have to admit that i thought the team looked relatively "complete" with payton at the point, and was somewhat disappointed when they dealt him to boston. whether it was or wasn't kobe's doing is another issue that could jeopardize the health of the team; any time a superstar is effectively running the GM's office, the championship trophy is making a b-line for another city. there's certainly a clear relationship between the two. 

in other words, power struggles don't work all that well in the short term, and certainly not in the long term. the lakers of 04/05 may yet prove to be the exception but i would sincerely doubt that kind of forecast, so i hope kobe isn't meddling.

otherwise, i like the lakers. i think there is surely some "hating" coming in from fans of other teams who have been looking for a _laker outlet_ for some time, but that rarely impacts on team performance come november. personally, i wouldn't list them as one of the favourites for the nba title but, since parity is the trend these days, i wouldn't put it past them either. 

i think it's a solid team that could potentially make a serious run with rudy tomjanovich at the helm. in my opinion, they can still win the championship- absolutely.

peace


----------



## JYD (Sep 3, 2002)

I did a little research and came up with this,
Western conference starting PF real heights…

Pau Gasol…7’0”
Kevin Garnett…6’11”
Dirk Nowitzki…6’11”
Troy Murphey…6’11”
Tim Duncan…6’10”
Chris Webber…6’10”
PJ Brown…6’10”
Brian Grant…6’9”
Amare Stoudemire…6’9”
Kenyon Martin…6’9”
Juwan Howard…6’9”
Zach Randolph…6’9”
Carlos Boozer…6’8”
Elton Brand…6’8”
Reggie Evans…6’7”

Also Ben Wallace is only 6’7”


----------



## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

Hahah, half those numbers are wrong. Duncan at 6'10"? Give me a break.

I did the math with real heights. Average starting PF is 6'10" and a half.


----------



## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

PG: Atkins Banks Vujacic 5/10
Not our strength, but not detrimental to the team as a whole

SG: Bryant Rush Bobbitt 10/10
Kobe, enough said, 

SF: Odom C. Butler George Walton 9/10 
Our deepest position by far, we have guys at this position that can do everything

PF: B. Grant Medvedenko Cook 4/10
Very lacking in depth, hopefully Grant can stay healthy. Medvedenko is great offensively but gets stupid foul after stupid foul. Grant can defend, and is solid overall. 

C: Divac Mihm 6.5/10
Contrary to other people I think our situation is better then most teams in the league. I like Divac a lot, and very excited to have him.

However, this is a bad way to judge how the team will do as a whole. How well the pieces fit together will be more important.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> While I see your point about Banks, people seem to forget the Payton was great in the beginning of the season, because Phil let the team run free, once playoffs came around Phil decided it was time to slow down. Hurting Payton. Payton did deliver you the fastbreak. The reason I give the PG's a C is because right now you don't even know who your starting PG is, and to base a grade on what you HOPE a player will be able to accomplish isn't fair. You could go either way with all the other grades I suppose, depends on what you feel. Plus the whole defense thing that I put in bold would go against your B rating for Vlade and Mihm would it not? Considering neither of them have a lick of defense in terms of intimidation and blocking shots. Vlade is a great offensive palyer, and can really get a offense running smoothly, and can even get you a few hookshots or what not, and was a great pick-up, but in terms of interior defense he lacks that...


Why I have Divac rated higher because of his experience level. He's not a great defender but he rarely ever gets abused, I'd go as far as saying that he's solid of course he doesn't block shots but flopping is a defensive tactic that seems to work. 

But based on Offense I rank Divac higher because I think he could score more if given the chance and his instincts offensively are superb regarding his passing ability. 


I'm really excited by these Lakers. 

*I'm very optimistic and will be more so if Malone returns. I expect the Lakers to win the Pacific in a tough battle with the Kings and snag a top 4 seed. I think we have a real good mix of talent I think people are underrating our experience and overrating Shaq's loss. *


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> I never claimed that Grant _was_ undersized. I claimed that the other power forwards are drastically better than he is, and that's why he'll be ineffective.
> 
> But what I did say was that 6'9" is not the average height of starting PFs. Maybe all PFs, but not of starters. You just listed all of the good PFs, and only 3 were 6'9" or shorter so yes.... he is a little bit undersized. His main problem, though, is that all those other PFs are better than he is.


Grant will not be ineffective. You must have not paid much attention to his career or you'd know he's a great man defender. He makes players fight for everything. Oddly enough he locks up Yao Ming quite easily. 

I give the grade of pf a low score because I think out West there is no way he doesn't get into foul trouble and we have no depth behind him. 

If Malone re-signs than I will grade us out to a B- grade. If not D-.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Here's the thing about Brian Grant. He is here to be physical and rebound. I think he will excel at his natural position of PF, from a defensive standpoint. Not to mention he will get all kinds of chances for dunks and layups, playing with Divac from the high post and Odom and Kobe on the wings. 

We keep looking at these things by position, but look at a guy like Chucky Atkins. His value shoots way up, having to play opposite of Kobe-Odom-Divac, because of his tremendous spot up shooting ability. 

The change of pace to Marcus Banks and the running attack with Odom-Kobe-Caron on the wings, will be one of the most dynamic in the league. 

What some people are missing (not people like jazzy1 and EHL) is the value of versatility this team now presents. No more of this we can only play one way stuff. I am very interested in the motion offense (taking adv. of a guy like Luke Walton) and the types of lineup combinations we can throw out there.

I really believe Kobe is the key to how good the positions are. Like Eric Neel said in a really good article a few weeks back (even though he doesn't like Kobe), if Kobe starts of the season getting say 26 points, 8 rebounds and 8-10 assists per game, the Lakers confidence as a team will grow tremendously. I hope he starts the season out passing like a madman, because as we know, that stuff becomes contagious. 

I have also not given up on Brian Cook and think a change in style of play will make him more effective, not to mention that what makes a guy like Drew Gooden better than him? Not much in my opinion. Slava... well I'll end my post now.


----------



## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Most dominant player on the planet?*

I thought you guys traded Shaquille. 

You may see a change in the way Mr. Bryant is defended now that he is gone. Welcome to T'Mac's world, Kobe. Better trust your teammates, because you'll be seeing three defenders every time you put the ball on the floor.


----------



## JYD (Sep 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> Hahah, half those numbers are wrong. Duncan at 6'10"? Give me a break.


Duncan is 6'10". Bron is barely shorter than him. His senoir year in college he was 6'10". As a rookie he was 6'10". And magically he grew two inches at age 23. Caompare Duncan (supposedly 7') to Shaq (7'1") and Shaq towers over him.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JYD</b>!
> 
> 
> Duncan is 6'10". Bron is barely shorter than him. His senoir year in college he was 6'10". As a rookie he was 6'10". And magically he grew two inches at age 23. Caompare Duncan (supposedly 7') to Shaq (7'1") and Shaq towers over him.












Duncan is crouched, Shaq's knees are only slightly bent, yet Duncan is barely shorter than he is.










Look the same height there to me...

But then of course, if you are saying that someone is 7'1 toweing over someone listed as 6'10, then wouldn't someone 7'1 tower over somebody that's 6'9?


----------



## JYD (Sep 3, 2002)

Yes they would, Brian Grant's lucky he won't have to gaurd centers anymore.


----------



## JYD (Sep 3, 2002)

OMG, I guess I was wrong Duncan towers over Shaq!

<img src="http://www.nba.com/media/spurs/duncan_300_030515.jpg">


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Wow, because that picture TOTALLY shows the true height... I mean the way Duncan is like 20 feet away from Shaq, totally shows even depth... :laugh:


----------



## JYD (Sep 3, 2002)

Notice the sarcasm smiley


----------



## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Lynx</b>!
> 
> 
> See you in playoffs aka Game 5 Koko...





Well, thank God you get rid of Shaq.....that man abused Rasho like a step child. 




I'll be ready for our annual playoff matchup.:yes:


----------



## radronOmega (Aug 1, 2004)

*re*

i'm surprised how many fans believe the lakers are going to be mired in mediocrity for awhile. i just don't see it. if i were a laker fan, i'd be relatively satisfied with the team. i think there are some cagey veterans to serve as glue but, more importantly, i think there is some exciting youth on the squad- not to mention (arguably) the most dominant player on the planet.

i think caron butler is being underrated these days, possibly because he had been overrated for some time in 02/03, and is just now balancing his market value. i think he was anything but "filler" in the shaq trade, and gives the lakers another player with considerable "potential" (which doesn't necessarily mean anything, but is good to have if you're an optimist ). 

the only transaction i'd question is the trade with the celtics, but many fans/critics/league personalities are excited about marcus bell, so that may not matter. however, i'd have to admit that i thought the team looked relatively "complete" with payton at the point, and was somewhat disappointed when they dealt him to boston. whether it was or wasn't kobe's doing is another issue that could jeopardize the health of the team; any time a superstar is effectively running the GM's office, the championship trophy is making a b-line for another city. there's certainly a clear relationship between the two. 

in other words, power struggles don't work all that well in the short term, and certainly not in the long term. the lakers of 04/05 may yet prove to be the exception but i would sincerely doubt that kind of forecast, so i hope kobe isn't meddling.

otherwise, i like the lakers. i think there is surely some "hating" coming in from fans of other teams who have been looking for a laker outlet for some time, but that rarely impacts on team performance come november. personally, i wouldn't list them as one of the favourites for the nba title but, since parity is the trend these days, i wouldn't put it past them either. 

i think it's a solid team that could potentially make a serious run with rudy tomjanovich at the helm. in my opinion, they can still win the championship- absolutely.

peace

--------------


Thank you for realizing that we can go deep in the playooffs if not win it all. Our team may be atheletic like every other team in the nba but we can both RUN and DEFEND. Teams ususally have one of those but we have 2. I think that LA has a deeper bench now and Rush has serious potential. He took a massive jump from him rookie year to his sophomore year. If he just makes a half step in improvement he's starter material already. Divac can hold center as long as he can play 25 min a game and miss nothing mroe than 5 games then i'm very very very happy. I think Mihm can do well and he didn't get his mintues in Boston because they are overloaded at the 4-5 spot. Mihm will be fine and he's a decent shot blocker. A stiff but still decent. All we have to do is win our division and the trhee seed is ours. We then face SA in the second round fully knowing they will be first(depressed sigh.)
By the way you are a Laker fan I can tell by the avatar but nice trying.


As for SA we WILL meet them in the playoffs. Trust me it's an annual thing. TD will get his 30 15 and 4 and Kobe will get his 32 6 and 6. I think it's a matter of who plays their game and how Manu takes the bench or being a starter. IF manu is starting and still keeps his energy then that is bad news. On the other hand if LA runs and guns preventing SA from setting up their offense then the Lakers still have a chance. Barry will have to adjust to the bench and if he can do that that will be a killer. Butler can explode if fully healthy and can take Manu while Banks(if he becomes a lock down defender[big IF] then he will push us to a 3 seed for sure). Kobe can then take Bown and coast and try to float for steals and focus on the offensive end.


As for that Tmac swarming if they triple team him Rudy T. is going to make sure Kobe passes. PHil is too lax I want Rudy t to shout at kobe if he becomes Kome. Odom will be key though because Odom can cause one heck of a mismatch in the SA series.


Whoever wins the series iwns the championship. Last year was a fluke. Indiana should of beat Detroit and if Indiana was fully healthy then they WOULD of beaten Detroit.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

;


----------



## Limee (Jun 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> What some people are missing (not people like jazzy1 and EHL) is the value of versatility this team now presents. No more of this we can only play one way stuff.


I can't give ratings because I haven't seen enough of the new guys. The first thing that strikes me though is that we have real versatility and flexibility. We can put some very interesting lineups on the floor now based on the situation and lineup we are facing. 

I am looking forward to seeing how the team plays this coming season.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Limee</b>!
> 
> 
> I can't give ratings because I haven't seen enough of the new guys. The first thing that strikes me though is that we have real versatility and flexibility. We can put some very interesting lineups on the floor now based on the situation and lineup we are facing.
> ...


I agree very much with your premise here. While we can all talk about how this team can or will perform till we're blue in the face, I honestly don't think it'll be _quite_ let we expect. Certainly some things are quite predictable, like the fact that this team will run. But I'm very interested to see, for example, how Vlade will fit in with the Lakers new style of ball and how Kobe elevates his game this season (Jordanesqe or not).


----------

