# San Antonio's dug its own grave



## sunsaz (Apr 18, 2005)

I think that even the most hardened optimist is holding his head down right now due to the Suns running out of gas and getting kicked in the balls from San Antonio fans. This marks a San Antonio deuce 4 of the last 5 times we've faced them in the playoffs.

All I'm going to say is that this series does not prove the Suns suck. It does not prove that run n gun is inferior. It even does not prove that San Antonio is a better franchise. In my eyes, all it proves is that their fall from grace will be even harder when we kick their f*explitive deleted*g a*explitive deleted*s next year.


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## carlos710 (Jun 13, 2002)

i know you are angry as a suns fan but i dont see reason for agressions.
anyway, i also expects the suns to improve in the offseason and be a bigger threat for next year.

btw, spurs fans knows the feeling getting killed by the lakers a couple of times :'(


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## On Thre3 (Nov 26, 2003)

sunsaz said:


> I think that even the most hardened optimist is holding his head down right now due to the Suns running out of gas and getting kicked in the balls from San Antonio fans. This marks a San Antonio deuce 4 of the last 5 times we've faced them in the playoffs.
> 
> All I'm going to say is that this series does not prove the Suns suck. It does not prove that run n gun is inferior. It even does not prove that San Antonio is a better franchise. In my eyes, all it proves is that their fall from grace will be even harder when we kick their f*explitive deleted*g a*explitive deleted*s next year.


pretty bitter arnt we? Look at this as a lesson, people compare phx to what the mavs used to be, and that means no success in playoffs


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## sunsaz (Apr 18, 2005)

On Thre3 said:


> pretty bitter arnt we? Look at this as a lesson, people compare phx to what the mavs used to be, and that means no success in playoffs


People who make that comparision are close-minded fools who don't want anyone other than San Antonio or LA in the Finals. Speaking of LA, if you just made a new enemy just as stubborn and arrogant as LA, you'd be bitter too.


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## sunsaz (Apr 18, 2005)

carlos710 said:


> i know you are angry as a suns fan but i dont see reason for agressions.
> anyway, i also expects the suns to improve in the offseason and be a bigger threat for next year.:'(


They had better. Otherwise, I'll just be more angry. I'm sick of either San Antonio or LA in the Finals (happened every time since 1999).


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

On Thre3 said:


> pretty bitter arnt we? Look at this as a lesson, people compare phx to what the mavs used to be, and that means no success in playoffs


Yeah, but everyone said WE COULDN'T RUN IN THE PLAYOFFS. No one is getting that. Everyone then decides to change their mind and say no we meant win a title. Blah blah blah. That's not what they first said. But our offense went up in the playoffs. We set a standard that we can run in the playoffs nowadays, and we did it in our first yr doing this, with young players except Nash. We are not that far off from being able to win a title. Spurs are deep, and are the only team that can beat us at our own game. It's not like they killed us. If our D were so bad by the way people talk about it, we shoulda lost in the first rd.


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## FreeMason Jr. (Jul 12, 2004)

Why isn't this thread locked or sunsaz baned?


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## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

I never said you couldn't run in the playoffs.... never.

I just said you could run until someone decides to stop you. And apparently someone made the decision.

I think if it were the Mavericks against the Spurs we'd see a longer series, because based on matchups, the Spurs have a system built specifically for taking down the Suns. Unless the Suns decide on changing the way they play, it's a sweep.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

This series alone doesn't prove San Antonio is a better franchise, but......I'll let you finish that.



Dug their own grave? Geeze, the Spurs have just flat-out been the better team in this series thus far, there's no need to flip out and curse the Spurs for beating your team.


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## sunsaz (Apr 18, 2005)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> Dug their own grave? Geeze, the Spurs have just flat-out been the better team in this series thus far, there's no need to flip out and curse the Spurs for beating your team.


We have been beaten 37 times with absolutely nothing to show for it. If that doesn't get under your skin if you're in my position, then you are a better man than most.

John Wooden once said that problems can result from both winning too much and losing too much. Just for one time, for one day, I honestly want to feel what it's like to be a champion. I've seen it all. MVPs, best records, division titles, All Stars, Finals appearences, retired numbers, ROYs, buzzer beaters, classic games, you name it. The only thing I haven't seen is one thing I want the most: the happy ending. I would trade all my material possessions and relationships with people, including my parents, if we were guarenteed that happy ending.


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

The suns is not the mavs... for the final time... this season anyways.

They dont have Amare nor Marion. Amare is an inside force behind Duncan and Shaq. And if he develops a defensive mind he would be MVP candidate for years to come.


Some teams... you just cannot play small ball against... and apparently that team is Spurs... where their small is as capable as our smalls... but they have Duncan who is domnating in the rebounding and scoring department... he basically cancels out Amare.

Hunter needs to be played more.... he needs to start, so during the off season he should do a lot of gym work and cardio since he will should be running with the starters next season.


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## DWadeistheTruth (Apr 25, 2005)

dissonance19 said:


> Yeah, but everyone said WE COULDN'T RUN IN THE PLAYOFFS. No one is getting that. Everyone then decides to change their mind and say no we meant win a title. Blah blah blah. That's not what they first said. But our offense went up in the playoffs. We set a standard that we can run in the playoffs nowadays, and we did it in our first yr doing this, with young players except Nash. We are not that far off from being able to win a title. Spurs are deep, and are the only team that can beat us at our own game. It's not like they killed us. If our D were so bad by the way people talk about it, we shoulda lost in the first rd.


The first time Dallas, when into the playoffs, with that Offense of oriented style, I bet they though they were going to do much better next season, it just human nature, but just look at the results, that style never works in the end, is fools gold, you might have great regular season, but it will always end up bitting you in the *** in the Playoffs.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Of course the Spurs are a better franchise. They are poised to win their 3rd title in 6 years, how many does Phoenix have?


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

DWadeistheTruth said:


> The first time Dallas, when into the playoffs, with that Offense of oriented style, I bet they though they were going to do much better next season, it just human nature, but just look at the results, that style never works in the end, is fools gold, you might have great regular season, but it will always end up bitting you in the *** in the Playoffs.


Yeah but how many yrs did it take em to get to the WCF? Did they run to get to the WCF like we did? The way we did it. And oh, btw where's their Amare Stoudemire? Exactly. We're different. We're also much younger. Besides, our offense went up. Do you understand that? It's not like we went from avging 110 to 90 pts. It went up. It's the 3rd rd, and we're still running, where are the idiots who said "WE WON'T RUN IN THE PLAYOFFS?" And when the playoffs started they said it's back to reality for us. Then after we swept Grizz, they in the "2nd rd playoffs start for Phx." We still did it. Everyone said we won't be able to RUN. We did it. We're not that far off either from going further.

And we showed against the Grizz and Mavs we could make stops in stretches and play D in stretches. Cause TOs here and there. Our interior was still horrible but a lot of teams have weaknesses. If our D was as bad as people make it out to be, we shoulda lost in the 1st rd. We woulda beaten any team in the WCF except the Spurs. They're the only to beat us at our own game. We had a good run to get where we are. Not just regular season wins smart guy. All you're doing is comparing us to Dallas when things happened differently for them.

Check out this site. Check every yr up till last yr. Scroll down to the playoffs. They didn't score nearly as much as they did in regular season in the playoffs as we did and they'd do it a few games here and there. The only series they were able to score was whenever they played Sac who has no defense themselves. Our offense proved to do a lot whole lot more. Our lowest pt total just happened last game. One game held under 100 pts?

http://www.basketballreference.com/teams/teamscores.htm?tm=DAL&yr=2000&lg=n

http://www.basketballreference.com/teams/teamscores.htm?tm=DAL&yr=2001&lg=n

http://www.basketballreference.com/teams/teamscores.htm?tm=DAL&yr=2002&lg=n

http://www.basketballreference.com/teams/teamscores.htm?tm=DAL&yr=2003&lg=n

99.6ppg in the playoffs in 04 
104ppg in the playoffs 03 
109ppg in the playoffs 02


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## sunsaz (Apr 18, 2005)

HKF said:


> Of course the Spurs are a better franchise. They are poised to win their 3rd title in 6 years, how many does Phoenix have?


Congratulations for pointing out the source of my hate.


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## FreeMason Jr. (Jul 12, 2004)

sunsaz said:


> Congratulations for pointing out the source of my hate.


so you hate the spurs because they're better than the suns? You just proved my point in a different thread on the spurs board. Thank you.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

You Suns fans are becoming the most hard headed people to talk to...when people compare yall to the Mavs and Kings they dont mean literally, they mean the style of play...all O and no D...ans as far as it taking two extra years to get there, the Mavs and Kings had San An and the Lakers at the top of thier game during this time period, Phoenix only had to worry about the Spurs...and even back then the Mavs and Kings had a better shot of winning them Phoenix does now...could it be Steve Nash?


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> You Suns fans are becoming the most hard headed people to talk to...


And this is coming from one of, if one the most abrasive posters who never listens to what anyone says but himself?


P.S. Suns > Mavs


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## sunsaz (Apr 18, 2005)

ezealen said:


> so you hate the spurs because they're better than the suns? You just proved my point in a different thread on the spurs board. Thank you.


Okay. Let's start this again.

For years, the Spurs were just like us: fighting the Lakers for respect and a chance for the happy ending. While on the other hand, the Lakers were slapping us away preventing us from experiencing that feeling of being a champion.

In 1999, San Antonio finally broke through and experienced that feeling, and I applauded them for that. However, something happened in between then and now. San Antonio became what they were fighting against for so many years. Now just like the Lakers, the Spurs are the ones swatting away teams like the Suns who want to experience the happy ending.

Apparently, black and silver has become the new purple and gold. I don't want to see the Spurs burn in heck. I just want the happy ending. And because of virtually everyone being against me and my team, I'm honestly begining to believe that's never going to happen.

But please. Don't let this broken down, old man waste any more of your time.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

sunsaz, Spurs fans know about hating the Lakers more than any fan base on the planet. What did the Lakers do to you guys over the years besides just being a much better team? Well, for the Spurs, the Lakers kicked the Spurs' *** just about every year in the playoffs with the exception of those two championship years. The Lakers pretty much owned the Spurs over the Kobe/Shaq/Phil era, and as a Spurs fan, I couldn't take it. However, my hate for the Lakers wasn't about them flat-out being a better team. It was about hearing about them everyday and every minute on Sportscenter, the radio, the news, everywhere. It was about Shaq talking crap about the Spurs. It was about showing Jack Nicholson in the front row in the Staples Center every chance they could. My hate for the Lakers was beyond the them just being a better team. I'm not a Suns fan so I don't know how much you hate the Spurs, but I really doubt your hate for the Spurs is as severe as my hate for the Lakers.


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## sunsaz (Apr 18, 2005)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> I'm not a Suns fan so I don't know how much you hate the Spurs, but I really doubt your hate for the Spurs is as severe as my hate for the Lakers.


Try me. At least you're not in the same division as those buttheads. We have to take crap from them in the regular AND postseason. Again, I emphisize the point that you won a title. Therefore, you have something to show for it. We have nothing.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

But the Lakers prevented the Spurs from winning titles as well. It was the Lakers that knocked the Spurs out every year. Your Suns knocked the Spurs in 00/01 I think, but aside from that, if the Spurs lost in the playoffs, it was against the Lakers.


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## sunsaz (Apr 18, 2005)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> But the Lakers prevented the Spurs from winning titles as well. It was the Lakers that knocked the Spurs out every year. Your Suns knocked the Spurs in 00/01 I think, but aside from that, if the Spurs lost in the playoffs, it was against the Lakers.


1: True we won in '00, but you beat us in '96, '98, '03, and likely '05.
2: You've been in more series against the Lakers. (10 to 9) I'll give you that. However, we first faced them in 1970 when your first was 1982. Plus, you've won more series against them than us (3 to 2). Finally, your playoff W/L is better against them (17-30 to our 14-30). And finally, they're in our division. We are the Sixers/Celtics of the Pacific Division.
3: I'll say it again. You have a title. We don't.


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

The irony is for the people who claim you cannot run into the finals.

Well Spurs are running to beat the suns......
this isnt the scrappy 80-75 point scorelines... we are seeing good offensive flows and good balance defense from the spurs.... not just the scrappy ugly scrimmages.

This season, the best running team will lose to a team who changed their style and ran along with the tempo.... I will say that the suns running game worked to an extent.


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

Im happy it isnt a sweep.... im satisfied now.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

sunsaz said:


> We have been beaten 37 times with absolutely nothing to show for it. If that doesn't get under your skin if you're in my position, then you are a better man than most.


How about a huge improvement from 2nd worst record in the west to best in the league? How about the MVP? How about three players on the All-NBA squads, one on each team? How about the 3-point shooting champion? How about three all stars? How about the best record in the league and a deep run into the playoffs? Those cannot be ignored. I'm sorry, but the Suns will probably have the most to brag about at the end of the year outside of the team who wins the finals. 

The series isn't over, it's 3-1, but Suns fans have a whole lot to look forward to in the future, regardless of the outcome of this series. Amare Stoudemire is poised to become an all-time great, he has that ability. The same way Cavs fans are excited about LeBron James, Suns fans should be excited about this kid. Amare is just as special as any young player I've ever seen. The fact that he is getting experience deep into the playoffs at such a young age is great.


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## sunsaz (Apr 18, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> How about a huge improvement from 2nd worst record in the west to best in the league? How about the MVP? How about three players on the All-NBA squads, one on each team? How about the 3-point shooting champion? How about three all stars? How about the best record in the league and a deep run into the playoffs? Those cannot be ignored.QUOTE]
> Seen it all before in previous seasons. Only thing I haven't seen is the title.


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## G-Force (Jan 4, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> How about a huge improvement from 2nd worst record in the west to best in the league? How about the MVP? How about three players on the All-NBA squads, one on each team? How about the 3-point shooting champion? How about three all stars? How about the best record in the league and a deep run into the playoffs? Those cannot be ignored. I'm sorry, but the Suns will probably have the most to brag about at the end of the year outside of the team who wins the finals.
> 
> The series isn't over, it's 3-1, but Suns fans have a whole lot to look forward to in the future, regardless of the outcome of this series. Amare Stoudemire is poised to become an all-time great, he has that ability. The same way Cavs fans are excited about LeBron James, Suns fans should be excited about this kid. Amare is just as special as any young player I've ever seen. The fact that he is getting experience deep into the playoffs at such a young age is great.


A truly marvelous post. :clap: It is so easy to lose perspective when things are not going well. This has been a fantastic season for the Suns, even if they do not win another game in the playoffs.

G-Force


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## Ownerofpueblo (Aug 17, 2003)

I think it's been posted above, but just to get my two cents in, 

the spurs have been playing our way to beat us. The scores have been up in the 100s. I think that we proved we are at least the forth best team in this league (behind the Heat, Spurs, and Detriot), and after tooling we will be back again. We didn't have to change our style, and we have gotten to the conference finals. The spurs have been in the playoffs ever since they got Duncan. If we had that kind of experience, the Spurs wouldn't have a chance. They are winning close games. I think there's no better time to be a suns fan then now and in the next few years... (I only wish I waited on buying that Marbury jersey *sadface*)


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## adyer (Jun 1, 2005)

> People who make that comparision are close-minded fools who don't want anyone other than San Antonio or LA in the Finals.


I make that comparison and I'm a Mavericks fan who doesn't want San Antonio in the Finals. I would rather see the Suns kick the Spurs out now and woe be to whoever faces the Pistons.


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## Moe The Bartender (May 7, 2004)

carlos710 said:


> i know you are angry as a suns fan but i dont see reason for agressions.
> anyway, i also expects the suns to improve in the offseason and be a bigger threat for next year.
> 
> btw, spurs fans knows the feeling getting killed by the lakers a couple of times :'(


We also knows the feeling of championships a couple of times. You want us to get beat, do it yourselves. I have an idea, let's play best of 11...oh crap, we already won that too (6-2 this year)


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## Moe The Bartender (May 7, 2004)

sunsaz said:


> I think that even the most hardened optimist is holding his head down right now due to the Suns running out of gas and getting kicked in the balls from San Antonio fans. This marks a San Antonio deuce 4 of the last 5 times we've faced them in the playoffs.
> 
> All I'm going to say is that this series does not prove the Suns suck. It does not prove that run n gun is inferior. It even does not prove that San Antonio is a better franchise. In my eyes, all it proves is that their fall from grace will be even harder when we kick their f*explitive deleted*g a*explitive deleted*s next year.


It will have to be next year :clown:


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## Moe The Bartender (May 7, 2004)

Bottom line is...Suns had a great season and will be a force for years to come if they keep their key players there. I doubt the Spurs will actually hate the Suns as much as the Lakers, but I can see the Suns developing a sincere hate for the Spurs if we keep getting in the way.


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## sunsaz (Apr 18, 2005)

Moe The Bartender said:


> It will have to be next year :clown:


Been saying that crap for 37 years. You'd be sick and tired of the most delicious food too if it was fed to you 37 years in a row.


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## tempe85 (Jan 7, 2005)

I'm satisfied how the season turned out. We didn't win the whole thing but we didn't exactly have the intangebles on our side either. Losing Joe Johnson for the first two games hurt tremendously, those were games we almost won even with him out of the lineup. With him we probably still would have lost but it could have gone 6 or even 7. Further we have an extremely young team. Stoudemire is 22, Joe is 23, Q is 24, and Marion is 27. Not exactly players at the peak of their careers. Amare, Joe, and Q should all be better defensive players next year simply because they're more experienced. Defense doesn't come from natural ability but mostly from practice and experience. Stoudemire has only played 5 years of organized basketball in his entire life, not exactly enough time to master all aspects of the game of basketball. Even Jordan didn't become a defensive force until later in his career. 

Stoudemire pretty much proved he was a legitamate superstar in these playoffs. Even O'Neal never had a series like Stoudemire just did against the Spurs. I heard somewhere Stoudemire averaged more PPG for a player in their first Conference Finals than any player in history. He's the reason we're not the Mavericks, we're the Phoenix freaking Suns. 

This loss doesn't mean we'll have future failures like so many other people like to point out. The Bulls faced the Pistons three straight times in the Eastern Conference Finals. The first time they were beaten 4-1 (like we were), the second time they were beaten 4-2, and the third time they smoked the Pistons 4-0 and won their first title. That was the first of 6 championships. 

We'll be back next year.


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