# Denver Interested in Chandler



## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

Link 



> Denver and the Bulls have discussed a trade that would send fourth-year big man Tyson Chandler to the Nuggets, according to two league sources.
> 
> The talks only advance the growing perception that general manager John Paxson will trade either Chandler or Eddy Curry between now and the February trade deadline.
> Curry has been linked in trade talks with the Knicks, among other teams.
> ...


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

no thanks !!!

give tyson proper minutes, and he will produce !!!
plus chandler is way better.

watch the team having a 180° turnaround after skiles is fired.


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## Squirrel (Jul 25, 2002)

Nene and Skita for Chandler? In a heartbeat.


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

id definately be in favour of this trade. i like the idea of curry and nene.


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## remlover (Jan 22, 2004)

Trade Tyson for Nene...hell yeah

Then move Curry and AD for Dalembert and Grob+filler.


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## bulls (Jan 1, 2004)

i dont want to trade TC but he sure as hell is'nt makin it hard to cut ties with him..why the hell do we want this nene guy?you said it was playin well last year but he only avg 11ppg and 6rpg thats crap and wont help up out at all..

if he cant block or reb very well(dont look like he can score very much either) then what the hell will this guy do all game long? make Bugerking runs for EC?


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## dkg1 (May 31, 2002)

If you're going to criticize Nene for his lack of scoring, at least consider the fact that he played on an above average team last year. It's a lot easier to run up impressive numbers when you have no pressure on you and play on a crummy team. If he can catch a pass, he's already ahead of certain people on our roster.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bulls</b>!
> i dont want to trade TC but he sure as hell is'nt makin it hard to cut ties with him..why the hell do we want this nene guy?you said it was playin well last year but he only avg 11ppg and 6rpg thats crap and wont help up out at all..
> 
> if he cant block or reb very well(dont look like he can score very much either) then what the hell will this guy do all game long? make Bugerking runs for EC?


You obviously haven't seen much of Nene. If you have, you'd know that this is a trade Chicago would do in a heartbeat. Except for blocking ability, Nene is a much better player than Tyson. If Nene gets his lazy butt in gear, they're prolly a wash on the boards. 

I'd be very disappointed if Denver did this trade.


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RoddneyThaRippa</b>!
> 
> 
> You obviously haven't seen much of Nene. If you have, you'd know that this is a trade Chicago would do in a heartbeat. Except for blocking ability, Nene is a much better player than Tyson. If Nene gets his lazy butt in gear, they're prolly a wash on the boards.
> ...


Rodney

Tyson might be a real nice fit in Denver backing up Camby and Martin. If the Nuggets could get Pike, it might actually help the Nuggets.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

That trade would bring me out of the fire Pax club.

Do it, do it and don't hesitate for a second! Thank your lucky ****ing stars and do it.


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## Erock10 (Sep 17, 2004)

I'd do it in a ****ing heartbeat and then proceede to blow my load!


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

Tyson, Willams and Pike for Nene, Skita and Voshon works.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

I have to say I honestly would pass.


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

wow if they are offering Nene for Chandler that's a no brainer IMO...


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>L.O.B</b>!
> Tyson, Willams and Pike for Nene, Skita and Voshon works.


I'd do that ASAP!!

C CURRY
F HILARIO / SKITA
F DENG / NOCIONI
G GORDON / LENARD (next year obviously)
G HINRICH / DUHON

John Paxson needs to get that DONE!


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

I have posted what I'm about to post two other times now. I hope the third time is the charm and I get some answers from the pro-Nene contingent.

Can someone please explain to me what's so great about Nene? I know he's the darling of the sabremetrics crowd because of his gaudy plus-minus, but in terms of real-life basketball skills, what does he bring to the table?

Chandler's a better rebounder. Chandler's a much better shotblocker (Nene is an embarrassment in that department). They are probably equivalent offensive players -- neither one has a go-to move and neither one ever has a play called for him. Nene is a marginally better ballhandler and passer and has really quick hands for a guy his size. Neither guy seems to be improving from year to year.

The fact that Denver is even looking to deal the guy tells me that this would be a trade of disappointments. When that's the case, I favor the 7-2 disappointment over the 6-10 disappointment eight days a week.


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

Well, the article doesn't say Denver is offering Nene, only that he's a "logical target." If it's true, however, I'd jump on that...especially if we got Skita included. Nene may be no better offensively than Tyson (though I find that hard to believe), but he's definitely got better hands and is _much_ stronger, which would help him finish some of the plays Tyson is unable to.

Frankly, I can't think of any one-name player I'd want more than Nene.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I like Nene, but the last thing we need to do is trade Chandler for a young guy who has a reputation as being a little lazy. We already have that with EddyMunster. This team has proven it can't improve the talent it gets, but it can make it worse.

And I guarantee Chandler thrives on that Denver team and makes us all feel like suckers.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Nene has WAYY better low-post moves/scoring than chandler. He power's his way to the basket. I'd rather have him down low fighting for points than tyson being afraid and not knowing what do to with the ball when he gets it.

Bottom line is, this is Chandler's 4th year and 9 games into the season he isn't doing MUCH for our ball-club. Neither of these kids would get the max or anything close too from ANYONE. I thought Tyson would kick off this year like he did last year, but that hasn't happened.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> And I guarantee Chandler thrives on that Denver team and makes us all feel like suckers.


I don't think we have time to worry about someone getting better in another system. If he shines over there and WE also get what we needed out of the deal, then I'd be happy for both parties. We all want Tyson to do well but he's pretty much an average PF at this point in time.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RoddneyThaRippa</b>!
> 
> 
> You obviously haven't seen much of Nene. If you have, you'd know that this is a trade Chicago would do in a heartbeat. Except for blocking ability, Nene is a much better player than Tyson. *If Nene gets his lazy butt in gear,* they're prolly a wash on the boards.
> ...


This is my concern. As long as Skiles runs the team, I think Nene would just be the latest player getting a "life lesson" in the doghouse, and a negative highlight on Scott's "quote of the night."


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> I have posted what I'm about to post two other times now. I hope the third time is the charm and I get some answers from the pro-Nene contingent.
> 
> Can someone please explain to me what's so great about Nene? I know he's the darling of the sabremetrics crowd because of his gaudy plus-minus, but in terms of real-life basketball skills, what does he bring to the table?
> ...


Nene looked better in the second year.

In terms of "real-life skills, Nene is a significantly better passer, quite a bit better offensively, and most importantly, a superb defender.

Shot blocking is a gaudy stat, but it really doesn't tell me much about Chandler's defense. He has, as far as I can see, been routinely destroyed, both on the circus trip and throuout his tenure here. 

Shotblocking is relatively overrated. Nene is a very strong defender whether he blocks a lot of shots or not. He keeps points off the board. Chandler picks up blocks, but the guys he guards put up big numbers anyway.

This, of course, helps explains the plus-minus issue you dismissively sniff at. Guys who can defend and pass the ball don't accumulate a lot of glory statistics, but they do accumulate wins.

It's hard to measure defense, but I've seen the guy play and all the numbers confirm what I see. The Nuggets are a much better team with him on the court, due to his defensive skill and his ability to move the ball.

Our team is grossly lacking interior defense and it's grossly lacking in players who pass the ball effectively.

If Curry's going to stay here (which I have my doubts about), he needs to play next to a guy who can get him the ball. If Curry's gone, then we need someone who can score, but we still need someone who can pass and defend.

Behind all of this, I'm not all that impressed with Kiki Vandegwhe. He does some things really well, but I'm also not sure he knows talent when he sees it. Thus, I'm not worried about getting a guy I'd be disappointed with. If Nene simply continued to play at his current level he'd still be a massive upgrade from what Chandler has been. Skita, if we got him too, is likely a bust, but for a team going nowhere it doesn't hurt to take a chance on a talented 7 footer.


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## madox (Jan 6, 2004)

I'd take just about anything I could get for Chandler. He will never start on a good team, and will probably go down in history as one of the biggest busts of all time. 

If you want to read something hilarious, try and locate some of the scouting reports on Chandler coming out of high school. What an ***hole Krause was. 

It irritates my eyes watching Tyson on a basketball court. 

Hey Tyson, stop bringing the ball down to your knees when someone gives you the ball right under the hoop. Most people learn that in seventh grade. 

Tyson has learned only one thing in the NBA as far as I can tell, and that is to throw up your hands, stare at the ref, and wince after getting stripped of the ball. I think he got it from Jalen.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

You guys will NEVER learn....And you wonder why you guys havent won ONE game yet...Are you guys married to "POTENTIAL"??

Nene is a lazy BUM who has NO basketball IQ...He and Curry couldnt be a worse mix...NT plays NO D..

I am not saying Kurt Thomas is someone you should want,but its clear you would take a raw talent like Nene who brings you 11 and 6 over a double double like KT who plays great d and is has the kind of work ethic Curry desparately needs

What in the world would you guys do with Nene???

Getting Nene is like shuffling the chairs on the Titanic


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truth</b>!
> You guys will NEVER learn....And you wonder why you guys havent won ONE game yet...Are you guys married to "POTENTIAL"??
> 
> Nene is a lazy BUM who has NO basketball IQ...He and Curry couldnt be a worse mix...NT plays NO D..
> ...


Seems more like deliberately steering the crippled titanic into another iceberg.


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## Jujuba (Apr 4, 2004)

DONT TRADE CHANDLER FOR NENE...

Ok, Chandler is not a good player too, but Nene is worse in this team. Nene and Curry = The worst defender, rebounder, blocker, lazy and less basketball IQ frontcourt in NBA History...

About Nene :

I watch him play since hes 17 years old in Vasco da Gama, here in Brazil. He play here some years, i saw almoust games live, in ginasium. When he go to the Denver, the Brazilian TV show at least 40 games a year of Nene in Nuggy. 

And i have no doubt..Nene is a BAD rebounder and Shoot Blocker. And Nene defense is average to bad...Nene have LACKS of agressivenes like Curry. Nene doesn´t have a good basktball IQ. Nene doesn´t have a jumper, he only dunk the ball...Nene is horrible at FT... 

Nene is a idol here in brazil, he´s the 1st brazilian player to play in NBA, just becuase this iam a Nene fan, but iam not blind...Nene is not a good player. Have Nene in this team is = 0...nothing...almoust a step down...


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> Seems more like deliberately steering the crippled titanic into another iceberg.


As a Knick fan,I was 100% guilty of the very same logic...I was totally in favor of getting TT and shipping out Van Horn...And i would have been the first guy to send Kurt Thomas packing....

For every guy who realises his untapped "POTENTIAL" there are multiples of those who have not...

Give me the player who gives 100% night in and night out,thinks team first,and has a high basketball IQ....

Say what you want about the Pistons,but that is a well coached,well managed team of very good players who come tyo play every night and get after you on the defensive end for 48 minutes.....

Nene and Tvistkiili??????

Kiki,is no dummy..Buyer beware


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truth</b>!
> 
> 
> As a Knick fan,I was 100% guilty of the very same logic...I was totally in favor of getting TT and shipping out Van Horn...And i would have been the first guy to send Kurt Thomas packing....
> ...


You are lucky. When I see guys like A. Walker, Jamison, and Van Horn switching teams, they're not even options to join our roster. The "night after night" thing these kind of guys bring to the game are unappreciated.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> DONT TRADE CHANDLER FOR NENE...


A voice of reason....

May I humbly suggest you guys FIRE Skiles,get a guy like Fratello and really find out if its the coaching or the players

It beats being fleeced by Kiki


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> Nene looked better in the second year.
> ...


Mike, 

I'm going to have to say that some of what you've presented as indisputables is really a matter of taste. Offensively, I just don't see what you see -- yes, Nene moves the ball around better and can actually make a pass here or there, but in terms of scoring or overall impact I fail to see much of a meaningful difference between the two (especially now that Chandler has developed his deadly 19-footer).

Same with defense -- yes, Nene does a much better job of controlling his own cover, and it's not for me to say that the Bulls don't desperately need that sort of player right now, but a healthy Chandler not messed up by Skiles or foul trouble or anything else could be one of the elite help defenders in the league (kind of like that Camby guy who erases a lot of Nene's mistakes). When Chandler is right, he covers a huge swath of ground and forces the opponent away from the basket and makes us a real interesting defensive team if we can get our guards to pressure the ball without fouling. 

And a final thought about Nene -- after the Brand years, the last thing I want is for the Bulls' primary rebounder to be a middling defensive rebounder and have it be a crapshoot whether we control fourth-quarter misses by our opponent.

I am not at all dismissive of plus-minus stats, I just look at an instance like Nene (who, again, I don't see as a lock-down defender) with a grain of salt. I'm sure this is mathematically and logically imprecise of me, but when a player with very modest glory stats has a gaudy plus-minus, I tend to think his teammates deserve most of the credit for filling the "plus" side of the ledger. We don't have a Carmelo Anthony or an Earl Boykins who can put up 20 points in a quarter and spark us to a huge run. We don't have (yet) a shot-blocking defensive rebounding stud like Marcus Camby. We don't have (yet) a guy who can run an offense as smoothly and consistently as Andre Miller. We don't have a fairly high percentage outside bomber like Voshon Lenard. We don't have solid bench rotation guys who know their role and accomplish it regularly. 

Or put another way, put Nene on this year's Bulls team. He puts up his 11 and 6, his plus-minus goes into the dumper, and we continue to lose a ****-load of games. Even if Nene would make a better cog on a good team, this is not a good team, and if Chandler's poor play makes him more affordable to resign, I say you stick with the guy with the bigger upside.

Your mileage may vary.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> You are lucky. When I see guys like A. Walker, Jamison, and Van Horn switching teams, they're not even options to join our roster. The "night after night" thing these kind of guys bring to the game are unappreciated


It seems like you guys are always looking for the next Phenom to replace MJ,though as of late you are defintely heading in the right direction with KH and Deng...

Trading Chandler is not the issue..Jumping at the chance to get Nene and Tsvitkilli is mind boggling considering the makeup and apparent direction of your team

Go after Wilcox,Marion even a Sweetney..But two guys who couldnt tell you what letter Defense starts with is outright scary


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>remlover</b>!
> Trade Tyson for Nene...hell yeah
> 
> Then move Curry and AD for Dalembert and Grob+filler.


Both those moves rock. I would love Nene and Dalembert as our bigs.

EDIT: I'll just re-emphasize that the Tribune was merely speculating on the Bulls getting Nene, and that no names were actually mentioned from any reliable source. Who knows, there might be a different player being discussed. Or maybe these discussions aren't going anywhere. Only time will tell, so dont' freak out yet about this trade.


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## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

i would do the chadnler for nene and skita deal. i think one of the reasons why the nuggets want chandler is because hes extremely athletic, it fits their team running style. Nene is a better fit than chandler for us too. hes so much stronger.


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## ogbullzfan (Mar 9, 2004)

For all the faults I see in Chandler...I'd still rather keep him. Especially if we can sign him for a relatively cheap price at the end of the year. Even if he improves slightly over the years..he still offers those intangibles that most todays player cannot. He is a nice compimentary player to a high scoring post player. As long as we stop viewing chandler as the next KG and lower our expectations, we sooner realize that he really is a piece of the puzzle that we should not lose.

Moving Curry makes more sense to me.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ogbullzfan</b>!
> For all the faults I see in Chandler...I'd still rather keep him. Especially if we can sign him for a relatively cheap price at the end of the year. Even if he improves slightly over the years..he still offers those intangibles that most todays player cannot. He is a nice compimentary player to a high scoring post player. As long as we stop viewing chandler as the next KG and lower our expectations, we sooner realize that he really is a piece of the puzzle that we should not lose.
> 
> Moving Curry makes more sense to me.


Just like Marcus Camby, another former #2 overall pick who didn't live up to his superstar billing. I'm expecting no more than Camby-type production from Chandler, except hopefully with less injuries. Something like 10 ppg, 11 reb, 2 blks. Tyson is still inconsistent, but I think he's getting there. And he's hit that 15-foot jumper a few times which is nice.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Are you sure Kiki is no dummy? 

He re-signed Camby to a 60 million dollar extension and signed K-Mart to 93 million dollars and gave up 3 draft picks.

I'd say he sure is a dummy.


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## guilherme.rcf (Mar 4, 2003)

I can't understand this rumour. Denver is in need of a SG not another big man, injury prone big man. I doubt that all this talk is true.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Are you sure Kiki is no dummy?
> 
> He re-signed Camby to a 60 million dollar extension and signed K-Mart to 93 million dollars and gave up 3 draft picks.
> ...


Camby's deal has health protections in it and K Mart is definitely worth the MAX. If Pau and AK47 are worth the MAX so is K Mart.


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## DontBeCows (Apr 22, 2003)

Nene at this point is a better player than Tyson...and I'm beginning to think that Chandler will never realize whatever "potential" he has in Chicago. 

Do it.


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## Snicka (Dec 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Are you sure Kiki is no dummy?
> 
> He re-signed Camby to a 60 million dollar extension and signed K-Mart to 93 million dollars and gave up 3 draft picks.
> ...


I dont mean to bring Nuggets talk into this but how could Kiki not sign Camby after last year. He showed real fire in the playoffs. If you look at his contract its pretty friendly, lots of incentives for games played.

edit: Memphis beat me to it, damn my fat fingers.


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## MichaelOFAZ (Jul 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Squirrel</b>!
> Nene and Skita for Chandler? In a heartbeat.


Absolutely!


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> 
> 
> Camby's deal has health protections in it and K Mart is definitely worth the MAX. If Pau and AK47 are worth the MAX so is K Mart.


K-Mart is worth the max? Not to me. I take things like age, the Jason Kidd factor, plus his inability to create offense on his own and concluded when that deal was first signed that it was a bad deal. I couldn't believe they did it. 

Over the long haul, this K-Mart deal will prove to be a bust. His talent isn't up to being worth the max.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

PLEASE NO.

Chandler is plenty good enough to keep. 

This whole situation reminds me of the Trent Hassell one. We give the guy minutes and develop him, then we fans and the GM don't like some facet of his game and he ends up getting dumped. Like Hassell, Chandler will immediately gain league-wide recognition as a player stolen from the Bulls.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> PLEASE NO.
> 
> Chandler is plenty good enough to keep.
> ...


Oh god, don't even bring up Trenton Hassell. :drool: He's your classic example of a below-average player who fits perfectly with a superstar, just like Bruce Bowen, Brian Shaw, guys like that. He's a solid defender of course, but he was pretty much worthless on the Bulls, and still would be if we didn't waive him. He's gone from underrated to overrated because of how he "shut down" Carmelo Anthony in the playoffs.

I agree that there's the perception that he was "stolen from the Bulls", but I think that's a ridiculous statement for anyone to make.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

No thanks on these deals. I'm not interested in trading our unrealized potential for other teams unrealized potential.

If there are GMs out there who still believe Tyson and/or Eddy are going to be great, I'd like to get established "very good" players in return. This may mean we need to keep them until the end of the season and do sign and trades to make the money work.

I've started to see Curry (FINALLY) start to focus on developing more of a total game. At least this week, I'm not ready to trade him.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> 
> Mike,
> 
> I'm going to have to say that some of what you've presented as indisputables is really a matter of taste. Offensively, I just don't see what you see -- yes, Nene moves the ball around better and can actually make a pass here or there, but in terms of scoring or overall impact I fail to see much of a meaningful difference between the two (especially now that Chandler has developed his deadly 19-footer).


I'd hardly call it deadly 

I'd agree that part of what you're talking about is taste, but I think you underestimate how imporant good passing skills are. Especially on this team- it's one of the big criticisms I've had of how it's been put together. You need guys who can move the ball. Most of the time when we're out there, we've got at least three guys who have no business having the ball in their hands (Curry, Chandler, Davis, Harrington, Pike). That's not a recipe for winning at any level.



> Same with defense -- yes, Nene does a much better job of controlling his own cover, and it's not for me to say that the Bulls don't desperately need that sort of player right now, but a healthy Chandler not messed up by Skiles or foul trouble or anything else could be one of the elite help defenders in the league (kind of like that Camby guy who erases a lot of Nene's mistakes).


I don't really agree with that. Camby is a good cover defender himself. 

Chandler isn't just "messed up by Skiles". He's been a crappy cover defender under all three coaches he's played for. He's been a help defender that generated stats but I'm not sure he's generated much help. The foul trouble is consistent and part and parcel of the poor defense.

Moreover, even if everything you say is true, what's the likelihood it changes? I don't see it as being particularly good that we suddenly see a change from what we've seen for four years.



> When Chandler is right, he covers a huge swath of ground and forces the opponent away from the basket and makes us a real interesting defensive team if we can get our guards to pressure the ball without fouling.
> 
> And a final thought about Nene -- after the Brand years, the last thing I want is for the Bulls' primary rebounder to be a middling defensive rebounder and have it be a crapshoot whether we control fourth-quarter misses by our opponent.


That's the concern, I agree. However, I don't think it's as much of a worry if he's playing next to another good rebounder. Curry has the potential to be that if he stays, and if we trade him for a guy like Sweetney we're in good shape too. Deng and Nocioni also look to be guys who play the boards very strong.



> I am not at all dismissive of plus-minus stats, I just look at an instance like Nene (who, again, I don't see as a lock-down defender) with a grain of salt. I'm sure this is mathematically and logically imprecise of me, but when a player with very modest glory stats has a gaudy plus-minus, I tend to think his teammates deserve most of the credit for filling the "plus" side of the ledger. We don't have a Carmelo Anthony or an Earl Boykins who can put up 20 points in a quarter and spark us to a huge run. We don't have (yet) a shot-blocking defensive rebounding stud like Marcus Camby. We don't have (yet) a guy who can run an offense as smoothly and consistently as Andre Miller. We don't have a fairly high percentage outside bomber like Voshon Lenard. We don't have solid bench rotation guys who know their role and accomplish it regularly.


Well, the other thing to keep in mind is that Nene had a gaudy plus-minus and all of that his rookie year too, which I believe was before Melo, Miller, Boykins, and Leonard showed up. Camby missed most of that season too. 



> Or put another way, put Nene on this year's Bulls team. He puts up his 11 and 6, his plus-minus goes into the dumper, and we continue to lose a ****-load of games. Even if Nene would make a better cog on a good team, this is not a good team, and if Chandler's poor play makes him more affordable to resign, I say you stick with the guy with the bigger upside.
> 
> Your mileage may vary.


Thing is though, you don't even have to re-sign Nene, he'll still be under contract, thus giving you more flexibility to improve. 

Chandler, on the other hand, is bound to get an offer we at least have to question whether we should match. And I don't know that he has a better upside. 

And finally, yeah, we lose an ***-load no matter what, but I think we round into shape quicker with a guy like Nene who starts to be some glue, rather than a guy like Chandler, who's a set piece you have to fill around.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> K-Mart is worth the max? Not to me. I take things like age, the Jason Kidd factor, plus his inability to create offense on his own and concluded when that deal was first signed that it was a bad deal. I couldn't believe they did it.
> ...


Explain to me how Jason Kid grabs rebounds or defends for K Mart. How people can keep up this charade of Kidd making players is beyond me. How can somebody who was in the league as long as Kidd just all of sudden make everyone look like an All Star?

Funny that K Marts numbers are pretty much the same as they were in NJ and his defense is even better.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> Chandler isn't just "messed up by Skiles". He's been a crappy cover defender under all three coaches he's played for. He's been a help defender that generated stats but I'm not sure he's generated much help. The foul trouble is consistent and part and parcel of the poor defense.


I think Chandler and a lot of the other Bulls are Toni Kukoc-like in that they will play good, brick-****ting defense if they are engaged offensively. Skiles treats Chandler like a stray dog on that end, whereas Cartwright would run the occasional alley-oop to keep Tyson interested.

And it bears mentioning here that Nene's struggles with foul troubles are just as bad as Chandler's, and Mike Sweetney's are far worse (7 fouls / 48 the last time I checked).



> Well, the other thing to keep in mind is that Nene had a gaudy plus-minus and all of that his rookie year too, which I believe was before Melo, Miller, Boykins, and Leonard showed up. Camby missed most of that season too.


And Denver was god-awful. Hence the need for horses -- ones we don't have -- to surround a plus-minus specialist.



> Chandler, on the other hand, is bound to get an offer we at least have to question whether we should match. And I don't know that he has a better upside.


I am genuinely interested in seeing how that plays out. Part of me thinks that because of his height and athleticism, he's going to get an offer that makes Jamal's deal with the Knicks look modest by comparison. Another part of me looks at how he's played in his bad games this year and wonders if he'll get any offers at all.



> And finally, yeah, we lose an ***-load no matter what,


It's character-building, and it allows us to feel like what it might have been like to be a peasant living in Czarist Russia.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> K-Mart is worth the max? Not to me. I take things like age, the Jason Kidd factor, plus his inability to create offense on his own and concluded when that deal was first signed that it was a bad deal. I couldn't believe they did it.
> ...


I know this isn't really relevant, but I find it ironic that if given the opportunity, the Nets would trade Kidd's contract for Martin's in a nanosecond.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> Are you sure Kiki is no dummy?





> He re-signed Camby to a 60 million dollar extension and signed K-Mart to 93 million dollars and gave up 3 draft picks.


Are you serious???Did you look at the numbers camby put up???

And there are various provisions in the contract protecting the "dummy" Kiki...If Camby isnt worth 60 million,then curry isnt worth 30 and maybe 15 without the "lazy loverweight lard ***" clause..

Are you trying to tell me the Bulls wouldnt leap off the Sears Tower to get a Kmart??

This is exactly why the Bulls are in deep doo doo


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> 
> 
> And Denver was god-awful. Hence the need for horses -- ones we don't have -- to surround a plus-minus specialist.


At this moment, yes. But I'd argue we're setting ourselves up to have them, and have them quick:

Deng - Melo but with defense and a nice jib
Hinrich - Andre Miller
Gordon - A better version of Boykins
Curry/Sweetney/Someone else - A post scorer that Denver doesn't have


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> Chandler will immediately gain league-wide recognition as a player stolen from the Bulls.


What is he doing HERE though?

that's the question...


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The ROY</b>!
> 
> 
> What is he doing HERE though?
> ...


PUtting up 10 points on 4-6 shooting with 9 rebounds in 30 minutes against the best team in the league.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> What is he doing HERE though?


that is unquestionably the crux of the matter..too many worries concerning him developing into a superstar as soon as he lands a new area code..Its IRRELAVANT.....

cant worry about what chandler turns into..You can only be concerned if the prospective trade makes you a better team,or with a brighter future....

NO WHAT IFS


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>L.O.B</b>!
> 
> 
> Rodney
> ...


Don't get me wrong, I like Tyson. But if you look at the trade based on value, I just don't see where the Nuggets would benefit from it.

We can prolly get more than Tyson for Nene and given Nene's potential (although I'm sick of that word), I don't want to get shortcut. 

The grim reality of the Nuggets' situation, like Hong Kong pointed out already, is the Nuggets have a ton of cap space committed and have lost all but one of their extra draft picks. We still need a shooting guard (as well as a point guard if Dre doesn't shape up) but have very little wiggle room. I'd like to see us keep as many commodities as we can, or maximize the value we get in return.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> 
> 
> This is my concern. As long as Skiles runs the team, I think Nene would just be the latest player getting a "life lesson" in the doghouse, and a negative highlight on Scott's "quote of the night."


Yeah, the Bulls need to add players that come premade with a work ethic, not the other way around. Nene will bust his butt at times but really has no interest in rebounding and, at times, defense. 

That's a hilarious quote, by the way. Skiles is a clown.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> PUtting up 10 points on 4-6 shooting with 9 rebounds in 30 minutes against the best team in the league.


And what did he do against the Lakers, Nuggets, and Warriors, other than get into foul trouble? Look, I really like Tyson and I like his potential, but if he's not gonna produce consistently for us than I'm all for trading him for someone who can.


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## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

LEZ DO IT!


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

When did the requirement of being a superstar in order to get resigned begin?

We’ve lost many good players because of this mindset.


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## remlover (Jan 22, 2004)

This board is starting to grow on me. I like some of the posters personalities and opinions. Ok, w/ t hat out of the way.

You guys, if we are going to take that next step as a franchise....from the worst team...to one of the worst lol we need to get away from the trapdoor of dealing w/ guys w/ soooo much potential.

I remember when Curry and Chandler got drafted, Dickie V was saying about Potential. "Mr potential wont win you games, Mr. Potential will get coaches fired." He went on more then that, but that segment of the quote is what i remember. I thought Vitale was crazy and just bitter that good HS players were skipping college (he still might be). But, do you know what, he is right.

Chandler is in his 4th year and we are still talking WHAT IF and POTENTIAL. How much longer are we going to let that hang around our necks? The time has run out fo Tyson. He wil get some type of contract offer that we will have to match or let him go for nothing. 

I know Nene has the POTENTIAL label as well. But a plus for us is that he still has another year left on his rookie deal.

Well the Nugs were said to be interested in Pike. Maybe Pike and Tyson for Nene, Skita, Voshon would make both sides happy. We get a player in Skita that hasnt gotten much PT the last couple of years. WE basically give him a try out for the rest of the season to see if he is any good. Next year we get a good scorer in Lenard.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

Nenê? :laugh:


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>remlover</b>!
> This board is starting to grow on me. I like some of the posters personalities and opinions. Ok, w/ t hat out of the way.
> 
> You guys, if we are going to take that next step as a franchise....from the worst team...to one of the worst lol we need to get away from the trapdoor of dealing w/ guys w/ soooo much potential.
> ...


We also let go of production when its not superstar level yet.

We blame average to above-average production from 1 or 2 players for the losing as well, which is equally bad.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

No 

I wouldn't do the trade 

I'd deal Curry for Nene though


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

why dont you guys stop taking in other teams busted projects,keep your core,clear cap space ala phoenix and get some draft picks?

Curry wants close to a max out deal extension???see ya.. get a number one pick and a proven vet...or a sweetney type player..cheap,talented and hard working

forget lazy bums like Nene and No D Skita who the nets GM Thorn wouldnt even sneeze on when denver offered Skita..


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## Interloper (Apr 14, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>truth</b>!
> why dont you guys stop taking in other teams busted projects,keep your core,clear cap space ala phoenix and get some draft picks?
> 
> Curry wants close to a max out deal extension???see ya.. get a number one pick and a proven vet...or a sweetney type player..cheap,talented and hard working
> ...


Wow, the Knicks fan read my mind exactly. There's absolutely no point to this deal if we can't get rid of AD'c contract, get expiring contracts in return with a pick and/or a young player. Adding Nene in place of Chandler or Curry isn't going to all of a sudden catapault this team to success any time soon. It'll just be a move to get a year on having to pay Nene instead of Chandler/Curry.

And besides, is Tskita even a "Pax-Type" player anyways?


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Count me in as being against this trade. As I said on another thread, keep Chandler, trade Curry because he can bring us more, then run with Chandler at center. 

Just say no to NENE for Chandler.


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