# AI for MVP



## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

Allen Iverson deserves to be the MVP this year. I don't at all like AI and I almost always root against the Sixers, but he is having a phenomenal year. He is putting up 30.1/4/7.8 per game. He is scoring like crazy, and his assist numbers should only rise with Webber in the post. The Sixers will be very dangerous in the playoffs if they get in.


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## SKiP (Jan 28, 2004)

Not if his team doesn't make the playoffs... I think the Celtics will win the Atlantic.

MVP will most likely be Dirk or Lebron cause their teams are winning.

Kobe's had a better individual season than AI anyways.


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## PartisanRanger (Oct 24, 2004)

It's too bad that AI isn't given much MVP consideration given his team's fortunes, and you have to think about what "Most Valuable Player" really means. Without Iverson, it's likely the Sixers would struggle to win anything. He sometimes makes half of his team's points. He should certainly be a contender for this reason, but of course if we're on that thread names like Nash, Kobe, Garnett, etc. come up because they're in similar situations. It all comes down to whether you give it to the guy who has better stats and is MVP of his team or the guy who is the MVP of a winning team.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

He is barely a top 10 candidate. I'd take Dirk, Duncan, Shaq, McGrady, Kobe, Lebron, Nash and Amare over him for MVP without any hesitation.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

It could happen. AI is pulling away from the pack right now.

Right now it's:
Dirk
AI
Amare or Nash
and Lebron, who is waning right now.
And T-mac has been making a push.


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## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

SKiP said:


> Not if his team doesn't make the playoffs... I think the Celtics will win the Atlantic.
> 
> MVP will most likely be Dirk or Lebron cause their teams are winning.
> 
> Kobe's had a better individual season than AI anyways.


True, but I believe they will win the Atlantic and make the playoffs. Dirk and LeBron are also good candidates, and one of them will probably win. I'm saying that AI is as deserving a candidate as either of them. Also, I believe Kobe isn't having a season better than AI's. AI wins the stats battle, and their teams have about the same record.


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## The_Wiz (Mar 2, 2005)

I'd have to say that for MVP I would choose either Lebron Shaq or possibly Nash. AI is good and all but what is his shooting percentage this year? If I remember he usually was shooting tons of shots and making like 1/3 of them. I could be wrong though. I also think he is a cry baby a lot just to get calls his way. Lebron has definitely boosted the Cavaliers. Whens the last time the Cavaliers were a playoff contender when they didn't have Lebron?


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## 7 (Sep 14, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> Right now it's:
> Dirk
> AI
> Amare or Nash
> ...


I think you have to include Duncan in there as well.


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## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> He is barely a top 10 candidate. I'd take Dirk, Duncan, Shaq, McGrady, Kobe, Lebron, Nash and Amare over him for MVP without any hesitation.


 That's your own opinion....don't make it sound like it's universally accepted that AI isn't right up there with the others.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Max Payne said:


> That's your own opinion....don't make it sound like it's universally accepted that AI isn't right up there with the others.


Sure, it is my opinion, but I haven't yet heard a good case for Iverson as MVP. He is statistically inferior, his team is worst of all the candidates, and you could replace Iverson on the Sixers with any one of the eight guys I mentioned, and they would be a better team. Allen Iverson is as much of an MVP candidate as Ray Allen. 

It's just my opinion, and I'm in the minority, but this is what I'm talking about when I say I don't buy the Iverson hype. There is no case for Iverson winning the MVP at this point, he is a candidate (by name alone) at best, yet a bunch of people act like he is the frontrunner. That's ridiculous.


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## Vermillion (Mar 23, 2004)

Aside from his turnovers and fg% (.419), what makes you say Iverson's "statistically inferior"?


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Vermillion said:


> Aside from his turnovers and fg% (.419), what makes you say Iverson's "statistically inferior"?


I only know of two statistical measures and that is efficiency ratings and the PER ratings. Iverson is 9th in both systems.


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## Ps!ence_Fiction (Aug 1, 2004)

You really have to open you mind. You put down Iverson every chance you get. Statistically inferior? Please, 30/8/4 is far from inferior, especially when his best passing options are Kyle Korver, Andre Iguodala, and Marc Jackson. I bet that if you put Iverson on a team with Duncan's talent, he would be doing just as good. He is carrying the team to a roughly .500 record on his own (not to mention the Sixers have palyed one of the hardest schedules in the NBA so far)


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## Nique21 (Jan 12, 2005)

I still think Shaq should get it...


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## Pure Scorer (Jul 20, 2002)

Oh please. You're basing this on efficiency and PER? Both of those systems heavily favour forwards. 

According to PER stats Mehmet Okur is better than Michael Redd, Ben Wallace, Peja Stojakovic, Chris Bosh... The list goes on.

To base your opinions on those stats is ridiculous. Try watching a game.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

The fact you guys think that Iverson is as good as Duncan is just amazing. I was starting to question whether I was being too hard on Iverson a few days ago, but with that kind of hype, I realize I was 100% correct. 



> To base your opinions on those stats is ridiculous. Try watching a game.


That's all I base it on, watching games. It's you folks that love to spew the statlines like they are the end-all deciding factor in a players worth. You should try watching a game, because if you can't see that there *atleast* 5 players better than Iverson this season, you need to start watching another sport, you're obviously not cut out for evaluating basketball talent.


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## Ps!ence_Fiction (Aug 1, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> The fact you guys think that Iverson is as good as Duncan is just amazing. I was starting to question whether I was being too hard on Iverson a few days ago, but with that kind of hype, I realize I was 100% correct.
> 
> 
> 
> That's all I base it on, watching games. It's you folks that love to spew the statlines like they are the end-all deciding factor in a players worth. You should try watching a game, because if you can't see that there *atleast* 5 players better than Iverson this season, you need to start watching another sport, you're obviously not cut out for evaluating basketball talent.


1)Name those 5 players
2)I don't think he has a problem evaluating basketball talent, I think you just don't want to admit that Iverson is having an incredible season, probably his best ever season, because you personaly don't really like Iverson at all.


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## AoK-TripleDouble (Feb 28, 2005)

I will not be surprised if he gets MVP he is leading the league in Points per Game and he so very fast and a good defender, yes i think he can win MVP....and another plus is that hes a good roal model for kids :laugh:


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Ps!ence_Fiction said:


> 1)Name those 5 players


Tim Duncan, Shaquille O'Neal, Dirk Nowitzki, LeBron James, Amare Stoudemire, Steve Nash, Tracy McGrady and Kobe Bryant. Atleast 5 of these guys, at the very least, are clearly having better seasons than Iverson. I think they all are. 



Ps!ence_Fiction said:


> 2)I don't think he has a problem evaluating basketball talent, I think you just don't want to admit that Iverson is having an incredible season, probably his best ever season, because you personaly don't really like Iverson at all.


No, I just don't buy the hype. Iverson is having a great year, arguably the best of his career, he is playing fantastic basketball. Unfortunetly, this has little relevance to whether he is the MVP this season. The NBA has awards like MIP for players who make huge strides from the season before. It's sad that a guy like him can't play well without fans going over the top and putting him at a level he doesn't belong.


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## Ps!ence_Fiction (Aug 1, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Tim Duncan, Shaquille O'Neal, Dirk Nowitzki, LeBron James, Amare Stoudemire, Steve Nash, Tracy McGrady and Kobe Bryant. Atleast 5 of these guys, at the very least, are clearly having better seasons than Iverson. I think they all are.
> 
> 
> 
> No, I just don't buy the hype. Iverson is having a great year, arguably the best of his career, he is playing fantastic basketball. Unfortunetly, this has little relevance to whether he is the MVP this season. The NBA has awards like MIP for players who make huge strides from the season before. It's sad that a guy like him can't play well without fans going over the top and putting him at a level he doesn't belong.


Amare Stoudemire? Are you serious? How in the hell is he a top-5 player? As for people who Iverson is having a better season:
Steve Nash
Amare Stoudemire
Kobe Bryant
Tracy McGrady
Dirk Nowitzki

I'm not saying he is more talented than these players, but he is having a better season then all of them in my eyes. He's on par with Duncan (Duncan's averages are down, but he is playing slightly less minutes. Shaq isn't having the best personal season, but he has made the Heat so much better just by being there.

First off, Iverson is not playing well, Iverson is playing incredible. Secondly, how does Iverson not belong there, because his team is not good? Like I said, give him talent, and he will win. (Yes he does have talent, but half the time, that talent doesn't see the floor time they deserve)


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## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Sixers are gonna have to start winning some games for AI to even have a chance.....with Boston pulling ahead in the Atlantic there's a chance they won't even make the playoffs.


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## Nate505 (Aug 22, 2003)

RaptorsCB4 said:


> Allen Iverson deserves to be the MVP this year. I don't at all like AI and I almost always root against the Sixers, but he is having a phenomenal year. He is putting up 30.1/4/7.8 per game. He is scoring like crazy, and his assist numbers should only rise with Webber in the post. The Sixers will be very dangerous in the playoffs if they get in.


I have a hard time voting for anyone for MVP unless they play on one of the best teams in the league. As it stands now, the 6ers aren't even in the playoffs. Maybe if he was averaging 30 points and 10 assists, or maybe if he was avearging 33-35 points I could support voting for him, but as great as those stats are, they don't make up for the fact that his team isn't that great.


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## Nate505 (Aug 22, 2003)

RaptorsCB4 said:


> True, but I believe they will win the Atlantic and make the playoffs. Dirk and LeBron are also good candidates, and one of them will probably win. I'm saying that AI is as deserving a candidate as either of them. Also, I believe Kobe isn't having a season better than AI's. AI wins the stats battle, and their teams have about the same record.


How pathetic is the Atlantic division? Their division 'leader' is a game over .500. It's a shame that they have to send a team to the playoffs.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

SKiP said:


> Not if his team doesn't make the playoffs... I think the Celtics will win the Atlantic.
> 
> MVP will most likely be Dirk or Lebron cause their teams are winning.
> 
> Kobe's had a better individual season than AI anyways.


 he has


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Ps!ence_Fiction said:


> Amare Stoudemire? Are you serious? How in the hell is he a top-5 player? As for people who Iverson is having a better


Amare has better stats and is co-leading a better team. Amare is probably the one I'm least convinced about, but I also forgot to include Kevin Garnett. 

Tim Duncan
Shaquille O'Neal
Dirk Nowitzki
Kevin Garnett
Tracy McGrady
Kobe Bryant
Amare Stoudemire
Steve Nash

but I mean, if you think Iverson is as good as Duncan or Shaq this year, then we're going to have to agree to disagree, because we have completely different opinions.


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## Kunlun (Jun 22, 2003)

The Sixers need to win the division for Allen Iverson to be a top candidate for MVP.


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## jericho (Jul 12, 2002)

Kunlun said:


> The Sixers need to win the division for Allen Iverson to be a top candidate for MVP.


I think that's right. But the way he's been playing, if they do win it, he wins the award. There isn't a clear favorite who stands out significantly; there aren't many years when there are so many cases to be made for MVP. But Iverson (whom I don't particularly like but sometimes admire) is having a phenomenal season, clearly is carrying his team by necessity, and is pushing them upward at a time when the team needs to make a big run. 

Steve Nash is worthy, but MVP WINNERS are generally perennial candidates (and score more than 15 ppg). Nowitzki is more deserving than he's ever been, but I think he's a year away. Garnett's team is imploding. Duncan is doing well and so is his team, and I think voters (and writers) will note that his numbers are down and be looking for a worthy sentimental favorite. If the Sixers can climb in the standings, I think Iverson is likely to be that guy.


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## Ps!ence_Fiction (Aug 1, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Amare has better stats and is co-leading a better team. Amare is probably the one I'm least convinced about, but I also forgot to include Kevin Garnett.
> 
> Tim Duncan
> Shaquille O'Neal
> ...


Amare has better stats then Iverson? The only thing Amare does better then Iverson is dunk and rebound (but he's a power forward, he's supposed to rebound), and yet his rebounding isn't good compared to what he should be averaging for someone as ferocious and aggressive as him. 8 rpg is hardly enough for someone his size and with his tenacity. All he is right now is a scorer, a good scorer yes, but he isn't even on the same level as Iverson scoring wise, and that's his best attribute. He isn't the greatest defender, he is a so-so shot blocker.....he's pretty much mediocre at most things except scoring, and if you take away his open looks and fast break points he gets from Steve Nash, hsi point production will probably go down (though I'm pretty sure he has played well without him lately, but correct me if I'm wrong, he will become a dominant scorer on his own, he has the talent, but like I said, Amare's best quality is scoring, and Iverson is better then him at it) Iverson get's my vote over Amare any day of the week.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

I am really suprised by the number of people who actually think AI has a shot at winning MVP this year. His team isn't even at .500 and they will probably finish the year right around or just above .500. No matter how good AI is playing, that isn't going to get him MVP.

Tmac in 02-03 averaged 32 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 5.5 apg and finished 4th in MVP voting and really wasn't even close to actually winning it ... because his team's record was mediocre.

Duncan's is having a normal year for him and leading his team to the best record in the league and Shaq has taken a mid-level EC team to pretty easily the best team in the East. Those two are my 1-2.

After those two I'd go with Dirk, Nash, and Tmac also before AI.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Ps!ence_Fiction said:


> Amare has better stats then Iverson?


Well, according to statistical systems he does, I haven't yet seen a system that gives Iverson the advantage. I'd rather have 26 points on 60% from the field than 30 points on 40% from the field. Amare doesn't dominate the ball the whole game either, he gets all his production in the flow of the offense. Amare is a better scorer than Iverson.


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## Ps!ence_Fiction (Aug 1, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Well, according to statistical systems he does, I haven't yet seen a system that gives Iverson the advantage. I'd rather have 26 points on 60% from the field than 30 points on 40% from the field. Amare doesn't dominate the ball the whole game either, he gets all his production in the flow of the offense. Amare is a better scorer than Iverson.


Of course he's shooting 60%, he's a big man who dunks more then half of his shots because he's on the break so much with Steve Nash. You know what, I'm not even going to bother arguing with you anymore. I just can't understand how you can think Amare is a better scorer then Iverson and I really don't agree with half of what you say, so I'm going to step back, and end this before it gets out of hand and we do something we might regret.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Ps!ence_Fiction said:


> Of course he's shooting 60%, he's a big man who dunks more then half of his shots because he's on the break so much with Steve Nash. You know what, I'm not even going to bother arguing with you anymore. I just can't understand how you can think Amare is a better scorer then Iverson and I really don't agree with half of what you say, so I'm going to step back, and end this before it gets out of hand and we do something we might regret.


I said before, we'll have to agree to disagree, because we see Iverson as seemingly two completely different players. No disrespect, just different opinions.


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## Ps!ence_Fiction (Aug 1, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> I said before, we'll have to agree to disagree, because we see Iverson as seemingly two completely different players. No disrespect, just different opinions.


At least we agree on something :biggrin:


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