# Insiders say Frye is playing amazing...



## Hype #9 (Feb 14, 2004)

> On a side note, get this.... *I'm told by insiders that Channing Frye has been nothing short of amazing in workouts this summer, and that Aldridge's hold on the power forward position isn't a lock just yet. *
> 
> No games have been played, but Frye's apparently decided he's coming to Portland to chew gum and kick butt.... and he's all outta gum. Whatever happens, seems like there will be plenty of minutes to go around with Frye, Oden, Aldridge and Joel Przybilla in what amounts to a front court that will have to carry this team.


Also, Canzano goes on to say he supports Oden not playing for USA Basketball this summer.

http://blog.oregonlive.com/johncanzano/2007/08/im_a_commie_and_greg_oden_is_a.html


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## BrooklynBaller (Jun 25, 2003)

Hype #9 said:


> Also, Canzano goes on to say he supports Oden not playing for USA Basketball this summer.
> 
> http://blog.oregonlive.com/johncanzano/2007/08/im_a_commie_and_greg_oden_is_a.html


Excellent news as far as I'm concerned. The better Frye looks, the harder LaMarcus is going to have to work to ensure he's the starting PF. A win-win for sure!


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

....



ABM said:


> K) Channing Frye will eventually impress EVERYONE. He'll become a solid backup to Aldridge and even play some 3 and 5.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

I have a hard time believing that Frye will really challange Aldridge for the starting role, but that's because I think so highly of Aldridge. I would love it if Frye can make Przybilla useless and trade fodder.


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## Draco (Jun 28, 2003)

Well I hope he does, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Shawn Kemp had some amazing offseasons here.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Draco said:


> Well I hope he does, but I'll believe it when I see it.
> 
> Shawn Kemp had some amazing offseasons here.


I was just about to post the same thing. According to these types of reports, Kemp is down to 220, Juan Dixon's shooting machine has turned him into a darkhorse for the 3pt competition, and Martell Webster's workouts with Kobe will turn him into an MIP candidate. 

File this one under 'hmm... we'll see.'


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Sorry to hear LaMarcus is coasting so much that a total stiff like Frye actually impressed somebody.

Well, not *SOMEBODY*, but Canzano anyway..


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## gambitnut (Jan 4, 2003)

I was talking to DaBullz on AIM a while ago and DaBullz was convinced that Frye could play SF for us. If these reports are true, could he do it?


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## ABM (Dec 30, 2002)

MARIS61 said:


> Sorry to hear LaMarcus is coasting so much that a total stiff like Frye actually impressed somebody...


Don't look now, but didn't Frye just sign on with Viagra?


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

gambitnut said:


> I was talking to DaBullz on AIM a while ago and DaBullz was convinced that Frye could play SF for us. If these reports are true, could he do it?


Maybe at times, I haven't really seen him play that much. I did have him on my fantasy team two years ago and he did put up some nice numbers. Personally I'd rather have him as a nice back up to Oden / Aldridge. If he does prove to be a solid back up give him a shot, but really I believe he was brought in to back up the PF position.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

gambitnut said:


> I was talking to DaBullz on AIM a while ago and DaBullz was convinced that Frye could play SF for us. If these reports are true, could he do it?


he's slightly bigger than Luol Deng - roughly same height and 25 pounds heavier. Deng's a string bean, tho.

He shot 78% of his shots as "outside shots" according to 82games.com, which pretty much is what I've seen of his game. He also has the handles to play SF.

Seeing how the blazers are going to be a mostly plodding kind of half-court team anyway, I think he's going to be a pretty good SF for them if they figure out to play him there.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

i think he will play sf lol 

they go small ball we go tall ball! 

roy outlaw frye aldridge oden


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## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

DaBullz said:


> he's slightly bigger than Luol Deng - roughly same height and 25 pounds heavier. Deng's a string bean, tho.
> 
> He shot 78% of his shots as "outside shots" according to 82games.com, which pretty much is what I've seen of his game. He also has the handles to play SF.
> 
> Seeing how the blazers are going to be a mostly plodding kind of half-court team anyway, I think he's going to be a pretty good SF for them if they figure out to play him there.


Offense definitely won't be a problem. This was the case with Sheed when we had him at SF also. Frye, being an already mediocre defender at PF, is gonna' get killed by quick SF's. He has never played the position and lacks quickness. I cringe at the thought of Kobe or Carmelo driving around him and placing LaMarcus and Oden in foul-prone situations. 

I think we're best suited to play each of the players in their original spots and stick to our strengths.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

For the most part I like Nate as the Blazers coach, but, he is not creative. I think due to the versatility of so many on the roster a coach that was willing to try new things often, and try them again in different situations if they don't work the first time, would be nice. 

I have listed the players with their primary position in Black, Secondary proven positions in Red, and possible other positions that they could play for quick advantages against certain players in green.

LaMarcus Aldridge PF C SF
Steve Blake PG SG
Channing Frye PF C SF
Jarrett Jack PG SG
Taurean Green PG
James Jones SF SG PF
Raef LaFrentz PF/C
Josh McRobberts PF (I don't know if he can play any C or SF yet)
Darius Miles SF/PF
Greg Oden C
Travis Outlaw SF/PF SG
Joel Przybilla C
Sergio Rodriquez PG
Brandon Roy SG PG SF
Martel Webster SF SG

That’s a lot of versatility.

I actually think that LA would be better suited to play some SF than Frye because of his speed and better defensive abilities, but I would love if Nate at least gave all options a shot to work and see what transpires.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

MARIS61 said:


> Sorry to hear LaMarcus is coasting so much that a total stiff like Frye actually impressed somebody.
> 
> Well, not *SOMEBODY*, but Canzano anyway..




From all reports Aldridge is playing really well. I don't think Canzano has seen him practice. Bill Bayno says LaMarcus has been amazing in workouts.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

FWIW

I saw the blazers summer league team here in Vegas. I was kinda shocked to see how unathletic the team was in general and that got me thinking about the rest of the team for the regular season. In spite of all the big name young guys the team has, it's not a very athletic one. The most athletic guy on the team might just be Martel Webster. The team is featuring twin towers, after all, in LeMarcus and Oden.

Think about that, and the best strategy may well be to model the team after the Knicks with Ewing. Grind it out, dump it in to the big guys on offense. And basically play zone on D a lot. 2 or 3 really tall players in the lineup in a zone is going to make opponents think twice about trying to take it to the rim.. Teams are only going to get 1 shot for the most part, too.

Offensively, you'd have Oden who's a beast down low, Aldridge who is quite complimentary in his short game to Oden, and Frye who's doing to be easily able to shoot over smaller opponents.

It also wouldn't surprise me if Roy is the first player next season to score 50, if you don't have a couple of guys like Aldridge and Frye out there as options.


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## LameR (Jan 4, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> FWIW
> 
> I saw the blazers summer league team here in Vegas. I was kinda shocked to see how unathletic the team was in general and that got me thinking about the rest of the team for the regular season. In spite of all the big name young guys the team has, it's not a very athletic one. The most athletic guy on the team might just be Martel Webster. The team is featuring twin towers, after all, in LeMarcus and Oden.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the input. Cool to hear your perspective, as I wasn't able to see any of the games. I'd say pretty much without hesitation that our most athletic player will be Travis Outlaw. It really interests me all the different concepts, offense and defense, people are talking about for the future. I hadn't really thought about a Ewing-related one. I think people get really caught up in the Spurs/Duncan-Robinson comparisons and don't really consider much else. I wouldn't complain if Roy went off for 50...as long as the team ends up with the W.


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## SodaPopinski (Aug 10, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> FWIW
> 
> I saw the blazers summer league team here in Vegas. I was kinda shocked to see how unathletic the team was in general and that got me thinking about the rest of the team for the regular season. In spite of all the big name young guys the team has, it's not a very athletic one. The most athletic guy on the team might just be Martel Webster. The team is featuring twin towers, after all, in LeMarcus and Oden.
> 
> ...


Travis Outlaw, Brandon Roy, Sergio Rodriguez, LMA - all athletes. I'm not worried about the athleticism on this team. In terms of wins, athleticism in basketball is overrated. The Spurs won the title last year with virtually no athleticism. Ginobli - kinda sorta. Parker - yes. Other than that?

It may not be as exciting as the Golden State Warriors, but it can be disgustingly effective.

-Pop


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> he's slightly bigger than Luol Deng - roughly same height and 25 pounds heavier. Deng's a string bean, tho.
> 
> He shot 78% of his shots as "outside shots" according to 82games.com, which pretty much is what I've seen of his game. He also has the handles to play SF.
> 
> Seeing how the blazers are going to be a mostly plodding kind of half-court team anyway, I think he's going to be a pretty good SF for them if they figure out to play him there.


Frye is listed at 6'11", 248 lbs. Deng is listed at 6'9", 220 lbs. Big difference. 

He may have taken 78% of his shots from outside,, but that's probably why his 2nd season sucked compared to his 1st season. He belongs inside, playing PF and C. Yeah, he has the ability to step out to 15 feet and hit shots, but he has NO business on the perimeter for extended periods of time. When he tried to play that way last season, he failed.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> FWIW
> 
> I saw the blazers summer league team here in Vegas. I was kinda shocked to see how unathletic the team was in general and that got me thinking about the rest of the team for the regular season. In spite of all the big name young guys the team has, it's not a very athletic one. The most athletic guy on the team might just be Martel Webster. The team is featuring twin towers, after all, in LeMarcus and Oden.
> 
> ...



Good input from an outsider. 

I'd point this out though

Oden is really athletic. he might not have shown as much in summer league because of his toncils and total lack of air he could get in his lungs

Aldridge is another really good athlete. Nothing like Tyrus Thomas, but can run up and down the floor faster than most any 7' player in the league 

Travis Outlaw is by far our best athlete. He was not in summer league 

Martell is also a very good athlete

Sergio Rodriguez is a really good athlete as well. He is extremely quick. 

Frye from what I have seen is a good athlete also 

Brandon Roy is a super good athlete too. He doesn't have the flash to his game as some, but his verticle is pretty good. He also changes speeds very well. 

Miles who is a good athlete when he plays.


Our only real non athletic type players are 

Przybilla
LaFrentz
McBob ( who is actually a decent athlete )
Jack ( also not a bad athlete )



Our GM wants a team that can get up and down, and we have that at most possitions. We also have the ability to pound it down low though


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## Bob Whitsitt (Jul 12, 2007)

We're not as athletic as many teams, and we're not quite as athletic as we fans like to THINK we are, but we're way more athletic than outsiders give us.

How many titles has being athletic given Chicago in the 00's? I'm more worried about winning games than being "an athletic team", and as long as our guys get the job done and win games in the future, I don't care if they all look like Tony Siragusa.


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## blazerboy30 (Apr 30, 2003)

mediocre man said:


> Good input from an outsider.
> 
> I'd point this out though
> 
> ...




I think it depends on the one's definition of athletic. I do not think of Travis as THAT athletic. Yes, he can jump, but he is slow, not quick, and can't seem to keep from tripping over his own feet. I don't consider this athletic. Sergio is quick, but so was Damon. I don't consider either of them athletic. 

Oden appears to be an athletic freak. I think LMA is athletic. And I think Roy is more athletic than he shows, because he is not flashy. 

I would say our team is about average when it comes to athleticism.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Fork said:


> He may have taken 78% of his shots from outside,, but that's probably why his 2nd season sucked compared to his 1st season. He belongs inside, playing PF and C. Yeah, he has the ability to step out to 15 feet and hit shots, but he has NO business on the perimeter for extended periods of time. When he tried to play that way last season, he failed.


That's the way he's played for the majority of his career. I don't think that he's suddenly going to be different. He's a soft player who settled for a jumper WAY too often.

It's one of the reasons I think that many on this board are going to be very disappointed with him.

I agree with you, though: he's no small forward. He would be utterly unable to take his guy off the dribble, he'd be unwilling to post his many up, and on defense it would be sickening.

Ed O.


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## Resume (Jul 17, 2007)

Yeah I was wondering how he is like Deng at all. and good to hear he is playing well! *Deleted* Attack the argument not the poster.-mgb


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## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

Resume said:


> Yeah I was wondering how he is like Deng at all. and good to hear he is playing well! something ed o never did in his child hood.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Ed O said:


> It's one of the reasons I think that many on this board are going to be very disappointed with him.


Really? 

He's going to be coming off the bench, and I think most of us expect about 6-8 ppg and a good attitude. I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that people think of Frye as the next big thing. 

Even the best case scenario for Frye still has him in the second unit behind Aldridge and Oden.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Deng has grown to 6'10". Their listed weights are 25 lbs apart, and I mentioned that already.

Sergio is one of the guys I saw in Vegas, and he's simply not very athletic. He looked like one of the least athletic guys in any of the several games I saw. What I saw in him was a reasonably smart player who made the most of what he has.

It doesn't matter if your 6'11" (or 7'0) player is more athletic than other guys his size, it's the sum total that he doesn't add anything to the team's needs for guys who can get out and run the floor faster than the opponents can get back. Aldridge isn't going to get the ball at the top of the key (or wing) on a regular basis and blow past his defender for the open layup/dunk.

While everyone looks at the names and college records of the blazers team and sees all this lotto pick potential (some can't miss), you still have to be able to put 5 really good players out there most of the time and defend. Defend more athletic players.

Good luck with that!


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Samuel said:


> Really?
> 
> He's going to be coming off the bench, and I think most of us expect about 6-8 ppg and a good attitude. I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that people think of Frye as the next big thing.
> 
> Even the best case scenario for Frye still has him in the second unit behind Aldridge and Oden.


Read the board, Sam. We have ABM predicting (or positing as consensus) that Frye will impress everyone. We have people thinking he's going to push Aldridge for a starting spot. We have some who see him as a top 3 Blazer.

If he gets 6-8 ppg and comes off the bench all season? I won't be disappointed. I think that the VAST majority of the board will be, though.

Ed O.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> Aldridge isn't going to get the ball at the top of the key (or wing) on a regular basis and blow past his defender for the open layup/dunk.


Do any power forward/centers do that on a regular basis?

Ed O.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Ed O said:


> Read the board, Sam. We have ABM predicting (or positing as consensus) that Frye will impress everyone. We have people thinking he's going to push Aldridge for a starting spot. We have some who see him as a top 3 Blazer.
> 
> If he gets 6-8 ppg and comes off the bench all season? I won't be disappointed. I think that the VAST majority of the board will be, though.
> 
> Ed O.



So you are thinking the trade was more about getting rid of Zach v. trading him for a very promising young prospect?

Not mocking . . . just wondering how you make sense of the trade.


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> FWIW
> 
> I saw the blazers summer league team here in Vegas. I was kinda shocked to see how unathletic the team was in general and that got me thinking about the rest of the team for the regular season. In spite of all the big name young guys the team has, it's not a very athletic one. The most athletic guy on the team might just be Martel Webster. The team is featuring twin towers, after all, in LeMarcus and Oden.
> 
> ...


Interesting perspective. I'm a little taken back by how unathletic you think we are though. A lot of our players are very athletic, Oden being a prime example. There was one dunk he had in the summer league that was incredible for a guy his size. 

However I agree with you to a point in that I think this team is built to be a half-court team for the most part. But being a half-court team doesn't mean you're unathletic. 

I love Roy, but I really don't see him scoring fifty, probably ever.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Ed O said:


> Do any power forward/centers do that on a regular basis?
> 
> Ed O.


Of course not, but that's the point. When I say the team's not very athletic and people point to Aldridge as being a reason they are athletic, it just doesn't make sense to me.

I'm not here to bait or stir anything up. I'm offering my legitimate and outside/impartial observations. I frankly do hope the blazers rock and roll, and I do like the players on the team a ton.

My own experience has included watching the recent Bulls try to figure out twin towers with Curry and Chandler. Chandler had the fastest footspeed of any of the bulls players and is freakishly athletic, yet unable to play out of position at the 4. Bulls played Curry and Chandler together a lot less than any of us thought, but the bulls did have the athletes to make 'em consider going small altogether.

So I'm suggesting that Portland can and should play twin towers, but they're going to have to figure out that the zone is their best defense for a while. As long as they're playing zone, they can get away with playing a very big SF.

It's also a tribute to Frye - I think he's a terrific young player who's really a tweener SF/PF.


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

Samuel said:


> Really?
> 
> He's going to be coming off the bench, and I think most of us expect about 6-8 ppg and a good attitude. I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that people think of Frye as the next big thing.
> 
> Even the best case scenario for Frye still has him in the second unit behind Aldridge and Oden.


I can't speak for anyone else, but I certaintly have always expected more than 6-8 ppg and a good attitude. I think Frye will turn our pretty well for us. 

I think the best case scenario is him either starting at the three or being the sixth man and playing extended minutes (most likely). For a young front-court fouls are often a problem, so I think he'll be big part of our success, or lack of it.


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

I have to say I have never understood how someone can say professional athletes are not athletic. Like saying a professional musician is tone deaf or something.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Let's not jump down DaBullz' throat. He probably feels the same way about Tyrus Thomas that we do about LaMarcus Aldridge. And he probably questions things about Sergio that we question about Chris Duhon or Thabo Sefalosha.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

crandc said:


> I have to say I have never understood how someone can say professional athletes are not athletic. Like saying a professional musician is tone deaf or something.


They're all surely more athletic than I am. But you have to compare them to each other.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Ed O said:


> That's the way he's played for the majority of his career. I don't think that he's suddenly going to be different. He's a soft player who settled for a jumper WAY too often.
> 
> It's one of the reasons I think that many on this board are going to be very disappointed with him.
> 
> Ed O.


Except that in his rookie season, the jumper he settled for was from 10-15 feet. Last season, it was 15-20 feet. He is fairly soft and from what I've seen he does settle for the jumper too often, but if it's within his range, that's not a big deal, in my opinion.

Knickerblogger.net had a nice recap of Frye's 2nd season, where they say a lot of the same things.

His scoring dropped from 20.4 per 40 min to 14.4 per 40 min played. Free throw attempts declined from 5.8 to 2.3 per 40. Offensive rebounding from 3.5 to 1.9 per 40. and eFG% from %47.9 to %43.5. All of those declines are symptomatic of playing too far from the basket in his 2nd season. Now, he may WANT to drift too far from the hoop. Or that may have been the way Isiah Thomas wanted him to play. I think it's too early to say that he'll be a disappointment. He may return to form by playing closer in and settling for the 12 foot jumper, which he hits at a very nice clip.

http://www.knickerblogger.net/2007/07/09/knicks-2007-report-card-a-to-z-channing-frye/


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## graybeard (May 10, 2003)

Shortly after Frye became a blazer this summer he told a reporter at the Las Vegas Summer League that he'd been lifting a lot of weights this summer and was up to 260 lbs. 6' 11" and 260 lbs doesn't sound like a small forward to me.


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## Five5even (Jun 15, 2007)

crandc said:


> I have to say I have never understood how someone can say professional athletes are not athletic. Like saying a professional musician is tone deaf or something.


John Daly isnt athletic.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

I'm not surprised "insiders" are claimimg Frye looks good......the alternative would be to just be honest and admit they gave Zach away for nothing.

Fork and Ed are both correct. Frye is "soft", and it is just as much mental as physical. At 'Zona, he had stretches where he was outstanding, and stretches where he just drifted along on cruise control. His rookie year, he managed to string together 50-60 good games. In his 2nd season, he went back to cruise control. 

Put it in these terms: McRoberts can probably provide as much scoring and rebounding as Frye; he is already a better passer; and has the potential to be a better defender. With Outlaw also in the mix, Frye will be lucky to stay in the rotation.

Pushing LaMarcus for the starting job? That's a laugh!


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

Oldmangrouch said:


> *Put it in these terms: McRoberts can probably provide as much scoring and rebounding as Frye; *he is already a better passer; and has the potential to be a better defender. With Outlaw also in the mix, *Frye will be lucky to stay in the rotation.*
> 
> Pushing LaMarcus for the starting job? That's a laugh!



No, no, no... _That's_ a laugh...
:krazy:


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

The only players on the summer league roster that will make our team are Oden, Aldridge, Rodriguez, Webster, and maybe McRoberts(who probably won't play much).

Out of those 4, Oden is freakishly athletic, Aldridge is very athletic, Webster is athletic, and Rodriguez is quick, but overall a rather average athlete.

So, tell me why you are judging the way we will play next year based on our summer league team?


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## Yega1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

Frye looked every bit as good his rookie year as Aldridge. His stats were actually better. So you shouldn't compare him to guys like Shawn Kemp, or guys who have never proven themselves in the NBA.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Five5even said:


> John Daly isnt athletic.


Golfers aren't athletes.

I'll reply to your arguement in advance:

Tiger Woods is an athletic individual who just happens to golf for a living.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Yega1979 said:


> Frye looked every bit as good his rookie year as Aldridge. His stats were actually better. So you shouldn't compare him to guys like Shawn Kemp, or guys who have never proven themselves in the NBA.


The Rain Man most definitely proved himself in the NBA.

Maybe before your time?


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

ProZach said:


> No, no, no... _That's_ a laugh...
> :krazy:


Just curious - but are you saying I am underestimating Frye, or overestimating Outlaw/McRoberts?


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Yega1979 said:


> The only players on the summer league roster that will make our team are Oden, Aldridge, Rodriguez, Webster, and maybe McRoberts(who probably won't play much).
> 
> Out of those 4, Oden is freakishly athletic, Aldridge is very athletic, Webster is athletic, and Rodriguez is quick, but overall a rather average athlete.
> 
> So, tell me why you are judging the way we will play next year based on our summer league team?


Yup. Our starting 1-2-3 will probably be Blake-Roy-Jones, who are all reasonably good one on one defenders and were not on the SL team. The defense will be fine without trying to put Frye at SF. Jones has more range on his jumper and can honestly defend 3s and 2s on the wing, so what would be the benefit of playing Frye at SF? Versatility is fine, but it doesn't make sense to play guys out of position just so you can create mismatches for the other team...

Anyway, I'm also skeptical of Canzano's report on Frye. I'm predicting a Joe-Smith-in-Minnesota-like career for Frye, which isn't bad, but isn't that special either. We'll see.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

I mentioned I saw the blazers in summer league...

McRoberts was hugely impressive.

You guys have a real score there.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> I mentioned I saw the blazers in summer league...
> 
> McRoberts was hugely impressive.
> 
> You guys have a real score there.


I was jumping up and down when we drafted him at #37. What a steal. That was an odd night. Very hi hi's and very low low's.


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## Verro (Jul 4, 2005)

MARIS61 said:


> Golfers aren't athletes.
> 
> I'll reply to your arguement in advance:
> 
> Tiger Woods is an athletic individual who just happens to golf for a living.


If there's a men's and a women's division and women can't compete with the men, that is the litmus test proving that strength, agility, and coordination come into play, and they're therefore athletes.

Well, unless you're trying to say golf isn't based on athleticism and the difference between men and women in the sport is based on intelligence... good luck with that argument


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## Miksaid (Mar 21, 2005)

Verro said:


> If there's a men's and a women's division and women can't compete with the men, that is the litmus test proving that strength, agility, and coordination come into play, and they're therefore athletes.
> 
> Well, unless you're trying to say golf isn't based on athleticism and the difference between men and women in the sport is based on intelligence... good luck with that argument


Hmm. That's a nice post. Rep rep. I'm trying to find an argument against it but I can't right now. I do this for fun. Someone disprove his point for me, please .


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## moldorf (Jun 29, 2007)

Oldmangrouch said:


> Just curious - but are you saying I am underestimating Frye, or overestimating Outlaw/McRoberts?


I'll chime in and say you're grossly underestimating Frye. The 'soft' label is completely overused. Aldridge is labeled soft for instance by a majority outside of portland.

My guess is that Frye will play a minimum of 20 minutes a game. And considering Aldridge's possible 'brittleness' and Oden's propensity for fouls, it could be a bit more.

McRoberts could end up being a real steal, but I doubt he'll see much playing time in the first half of the season.


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## lalooska (Jan 17, 2004)

The fact that this is considered news, pretty much tells you all you need to know about the merits of the Randolph trade.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

moldorf said:


> I'll chime in and say you're grossly underestimating Frye. The 'soft' label is completely overused. Aldridge is labeled soft for instance by a majority outside of portland.
> 
> My guess is that Frye will play a minimum of 20 minutes a game. And considering Aldridge's possible 'brittleness' and Oden's propensity for fouls, it could be a bit more.
> 
> McRoberts could end up being a real steal, but I doubt he'll see much playing time in the first half of the season.


Other then doubting that JMc will see regular playing time the entire year, I agree completely.

Last year I sensed that Nate might have lost confidence in Joel. Even when the rare game came around where he wasn't in foul trouble (or injured) JP's minutes were still very limited. Pick and rolls no longer involved him. With Frye relaying that he's been hitting the weights and expecting to come in at 260+ lbs, I'm thinking he was acquired to compete as a Big and would be surprised if he played any SF. Portland is already a big squad just by starting Oden and Aldridge. I could see them zoning up with all the tall trees in at once situationally, but not for long stretches... with his 3 pt threat, Jones seems a far better option at 3 to me. 

I see Frye earning a lion share of the backup minutes at the Big spots and like how his game projects alongside either Greg or LaMarcus. I think having multiple Bigs with length/shotblocking will have an obvious overall effect on how other teams try to come at Portland. Without softie Zach to go at, I'm expecting that we'll see teams settling for jumpers a lot more.

btw... here's a youtube link of Frye's press conference that I watched this morning. He seems a very positive guy... plus dudes a flyfisherman!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mFvYFPb7n10

STOMP


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Miksaid said:


> Hmm. That's a nice post. Rep rep. I'm trying to find an argument against it but I can't right now. I do this for fun. Someone disprove his point for me, please .


This assumes anything that requires strength, agility and coordination is a sport. Hammering nails into a wall or chopping down a tree with a chainsaw requires those things, and I wouldn't call them sports. Many kind of non-sporting blue-collar jobs use those three things.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

STOMP said:


> I see Frye earning a lion share of the backup minutes at the Big spots and like how his game projects alongside either Greg or LaMarcus. I think having multiple Bigs with length/shotblocking will have an obvious overall effect on how other teams try to come at Portland. *Without softie Zach to go at, I'm expecting that we'll see teams settling for jumpers a lot more.*


I'm guessing that, at first, we're going to see guys go right at our shotblockers like LMA, Oden and Joel to draw fouls, and it will work. Those guys are all probably going to be high-rate foulers. That's just another reason that Frye will see plenty of backup minutes at the big spots though.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

What is so rare in today's NBA is having Two starting bigs who are both quality, and I think that both LMA and GO will be average this year and in 3 years will be one of the best tandems in the league.

Even more rare is having two quality starting bigs and good backups to boot. one of either Frye or Przybilla would start on at least 25% of the teams in the NBA and they will be our backups. McRoberts has a lot of promise for the future as well. And we still have Raef as our third string big who is more like what most teams have coming in to sub at the big spots. 

It might take a couple years, but there is so much young talent at the 4/5 on this Blazer squad that we will be the envy of most teams in the league. 

Add to that an excellent SG in Roy and the Blazers will be in the 80th percentile at three position in a couple years. PG and SF still need to shake out, but there are some decent prospects at those spots as well. If one of our many PG's steps up (which is likely) that really only leaves the SF spot. I consider the SF spot to be the least important spot on a team in that it is the easiest to fill and that average talent at that spot is usually enough if the other spots are solid. 

Just pumping myself up. I can't wait for the season to begin.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

dudleysghost said:


> I'm guessing that, at first, we're going to see guys go right at our shotblockers like LMA, Oden and Joel to draw fouls, and it will work. Those guys are all probably going to be high-rate foulers.


Assistant coach Bill Bayno spoke to this fouling issue on a recent Blazer pod-cast.

http://www.nba.com/media/blazers/80207_bayno.mp3

I don't doubt that Blazer players will get into foul trouble on occasion this coming season, but I think Oden's summer league foulathon has some here overly concerned. 

STOMP


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## Verro (Jul 4, 2005)

dudleysghost said:


> This assumes anything that requires strength, agility and coordination is a sport. Hammering nails into a wall or chopping down a tree with a chainsaw requires those things, and I wouldn't call them sports. Many kind of non-sporting blue-collar jobs use those three things.


There are men and women's divisions for hammering nails into walls? I'm utterly baffled by this argument.


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

Oldmangrouch said:


> Just curious - but are you saying I am underestimating Frye, or overestimating Outlaw/McRoberts?



In my opinion, you're overestimating McRoberts at the moment AND underestimating Frye. Frye is good enough to never fall out of the rotation all together. I'd be surprised if he wasn't one of our two best players off the bench.


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

STOMP said:


> I don't doubt that Blazer players will get into foul trouble on occasion this coming season, but I think Oden's summer league foulathon has some here overly concerned.
> 
> STOMP



I hope you are right, because I am concerned. I would be less concerned if others have had the same foul trouble in summer league that Oden had. But I can't think of another blue chip player who went to summer league and fouled out they way Oden did.

So far with Oden I have heard a lot of excuses for performing poorly in the Blazers workout, performing poorly in summer league and missing play with the US team.

I don't know about the rest of fans, but I'm ready for the season to start with hopefully no more excuses.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

ProZach said:


> In my opinion, you're overestimating McRoberts at the moment AND underestimating Frye. Frye is good enough to never fall out of the rotation all together. I'd be surprised if he wasn't one of our two best players off the bench.



I'll concede that McRoberts may not be ready to contribute right away. If Outlaw winds up getting the bulk of his minutes at SF, that leaves Frye playing significant minutes.

As for whether I am underestimating Frye - we will just have to agree to disagree. Since I am out on this limb anyway, I will make you a friendly wager that McRoberts has a longer career in a Blazer uniform than Frye. :biggrin:


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> I hope you are right, because I am concerned. I would be less concerned if others have had the same foul trouble in summer league that Oden had. But I can't think of another blue chip player who went to summer league and fouled out they way Oden did.
> 
> So far with Oden I have heard a lot of excuses for performing poorly in the Blazers workout, performing poorly in summer league and missing play with the US team.


He performed poorly at the Blazers workout??? Geez not according to the stuff I read or the youtube links I saw... dude looks amazingly fluid. With the surgery he underwent, I tend to believe the reports that his tonsils were so swollen that he had his breathing severely restricted... in my book a condition that requires surgery is a valid excuse. 

Worry is something I no longer do when I chat with friends about my Blazers... I try to keep a lid on the gloating though.

STOMP


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

STOMP said:


> He performed poorly at the Blazers workout??? Geez not according to the stuff I read or the youtube links I saw... dude looks amazingly fluid. With the surgery he underwent, I tend to believe the reports that his tonsils were so swollen that he had his breathing severely restricted.
> 
> Worry is something I no longer do when I chat with friends about my Blazers... I try to keep a lid on the gloating though...
> 
> STOMP



I read that Oden was out of breath and apologzing for his play. I thought it was a consensus that Oden did not perform well . . . but I'm probably wrong if you saw youtube links. (I do know he was apologizing for his performance)

Things do look good for the Blazers (in spite of trading Zach :biggrin: ) . . . but I think sometimes the future looks so bright that no one wants to talk about the bumps along the road . . . it could have been a better summer for the big man.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

Verro said:


> There are men and women's divisions for hammering nails into walls? I'm utterly baffled by this argument.


It's simple. You claimed that the very fact that golf uses strength, agility (if you say so) and coordination made it a sport. I used the counterexample of light construction, which is clearly not a sport, to show that using those three attributes alone does not a sport make.

There aren't mens and womens division for hammering nails into a wall, because it isn't a competitive event, which is my point. If one did want to have a nailing-2x4s contest though, it would make sense to create separate divisions for men and women, because the men would be on average much better. Do you think the very existence of sexual dimorphism in a skill makes it a sport? IIRC the international rubik's cube games had events for women. Sport?


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

STOMP said:


> Assistant coach Bill Bayno spoke to this fouling issue on a recent Blazer pod-cast.
> 
> http://www.nba.com/media/blazers/80207_bayno.mp3
> 
> ...


I wasn't even thinking of summer league. I was just thinking that since Oden is a rookie who has never been in that great of condition to begin with, he's going to be a foul machine. The speed of the NBA is hard for any shot-blocker to adjust to, and guys who are tired tend to commit more fouls as well. LMA and Joel have already shown themselves to commit fouls at a fairly high rate.

That's why I'm not expecting the defense to be that good next year. Better than last year (which was awful), sure, but still not above average by NBA standards. Drawing fouls has always been an easy way of getting points, and lately it's become an even larger part of the NBA game as refs call them more. If slashers know they can cut inside and reliably get to the foul line, they'll do it all night. As LMA and Oden grow up, I'm sure they will learn to defend without fouling so much, eventually.


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

Oldmangrouch said:


> I'll concede that McRoberts may not be ready to contribute right away. If Outlaw winds up getting the bulk of his minutes at SF, that leaves Frye playing significant minutes.
> 
> As for whether I am underestimating Frye - we will just have to agree to disagree. Since I am out on this limb anyway, I will make you a friendly wager that McRoberts has a longer career in a Blazer uniform than Frye. :biggrin:



Sure, I'll take that friendly bet. Although, their performances don't necessarily equal their longevity on the team, so I'm a little less sure about that.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

dudleysghost said:


> I wasn't even thinking of summer league. I was just thinking that since Oden is a rookie *who has never been in that great of condition to begin with*, he's going to be a foul machine. The speed of the NBA is hard for any shot-blocker to adjust to, and guys who are tired tend to commit more fouls as well. LMA and Joel have already shown themselves to commit fouls at a fairly high rate.
> 
> That's why I'm not expecting the defense to be that good next year. Better than last year (which was awful), sure, but still not above average by NBA standards. Drawing fouls has always been an easy way of getting points, and lately it's become an even larger part of the NBA game as refs call them more. If slashers know they can cut inside and reliably get to the foul line, they'll do it all night. As LMA and Oden grow up, I'm sure they will learn to defend without fouling so much, eventually.


did you listen to the link I provided? It doesn't seem like it as Bayno talks about Greg adjusting to players trying to draw fouls on their drives. BB claims that he's recognised this tactic and is adjusting well.

Where do you get the part about him never being in good shape? Dude had a very respectable 7.8% body fat at the predraft and ran the bleep out of the various drills. He's played hoops year round at a high level for years. Inflamed tonsils did restrict his breathing in the summer league, but that doesn't equate to being in bad aerobic shape. Supposively he's lost a bit of weight/conditioning in the downtime following his surgery, but thats to be expected. Reportedly he's eating 2 double cheese burgers w/fries at 1AM each night to help him both regain his bulk and to keep him rolling through the long daily workouts and drills he's been doing back in Indianapolis with LA and Bayno.

We'll see, but I don't think he's going to be behind the curve for conditioning once the season starts at all.

STOMP


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## Jayps15 (Jul 21, 2007)

Oldmangrouch said:


> I'll concede that McRoberts may not be ready to contribute right away. If Outlaw winds up getting the bulk of his minutes at SF, that leaves Frye playing significant minutes.
> 
> As for whether I am underestimating Frye - we will just have to agree to disagree. Since I am out on this limb anyway, I will make you a friendly wager that McRoberts has a longer career in a Blazer uniform than Frye. :biggrin:


Although I agree with the previous poster on your assessments of Frye vs. McRoberts, I wouldn't take that bet... Frye's contract expires the offseason the Blazers are looking to have cap room for a FA, with a 6+ million dollar Qualifying Offer and a cap hold of 10+ mil as his FA value until he signs a deal I think there's a 50/50 chance he goes elsewhere in 2 years.


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

STOMP said:


> did you listen to the link I provided? It doesn't seem like it as Bayno talks about Greg adjusting to players trying to draw fouls on their drives. BB claims that he's recognised this tactic and is adjusting well.
> 
> Where do you get the part about him never being in good shape?


I listened to him saying something about how Oden should stand in and take the charge, but I don't think the fact that Oden is working on that aspect of the game, like probably every other young big man in summer league, necessarily equates to him being able to stay out of foul trouble in his rookie year.

As for where I got the idea that Oden wasn't in good shape ... I just watched him play. There are a lot of different ways of measuring conditioning, but the one relevant to what I'm talking about is measured in a player's ability to stay on the court and not overly winded, and Oden couldn't do that in college or summer league. There are plenty of explanations as to why this was, his wrist, his tonsils, whatever. Most rookies seem to hit the wall if they play extended minutes, and Oden's ability to maintain his energy level has been worse over the last year than by far most rookies. Maybe he will catch up and spend the next few months doing wind sprints, but over the last year he was way behind the curve among his peers.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

dudleysghost said:


> I listened to him saying something about how Oden should stand in and take the charge, but I don't think the fact that Oden is working on that aspect of the game, like probably every other young big man in summer league, necessarily equates to him being able to stay out of foul trouble in his rookie year.
> 
> As for where I got the idea that Oden wasn't in good shape ... I just watched him play. There are a lot of different ways of measuring conditioning, but the one relevant to what I'm talking about is measured in a player's ability to stay on the court and not overly winded, and Oden couldn't do that in college or summer league. There are plenty of explanations as to why this was, his wrist, his tonsils, whatever. Most rookies seem to hit the wall if they play extended minutes, and Oden's ability to maintain his energy level has been worse over the last year than by far most rookies. Maybe he will catch up and spend the next few months doing wind sprints, but over the last year he was way behind the curve among his peers.


so dispite his coach saying that he is working daily on this part of his game, you don't think he is. And dispite reports he couldn't breath because of his windpipe being constricted due to inflamed tonsils that had to be removed, you attribute it to being in bad shape because that was your impression at the time. Dispite him dominating statistically with a bum wrist and taking his team to the NCAA championship game as a Freshman and posting pretty phenominal figures at the predraft, he's way behind his peers in your perception of his energy level.

Ooooookay got it. 

STOMP


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## dudleysghost (Mar 24, 2006)

STOMP said:


> so dispite his coach saying that he is working daily on this part of his game, you don't think he is.


What I actually said was that even though Oden _is_ working on blocking without fouling I still don't think he'll be able to avoid being a foul-prone player in his first season.



STOMP said:


> ...And dispite reports he couldn't breath because of his windpipe being constricted due to inflamed tonsils that had to be removed, you attribute it to being in bad shape because that was your impression at the time. Dispite him dominating statistically with a bum wrist and taking his team to the NCAA championship game as a Freshman and posting pretty phenominal figures at the predraft, he's way behind his peers in your perception of his energy level.
> 
> Ooooookay got it.
> 
> STOMP


Pretty much. Just from watching him play in college, I could see him getting visibly winded, and I'm certain I'm not the only one who got that impression. I didn't see any summer league games, and I'm sure the tonsils would have affected him, but even before that he showed he wasn't in good shape. He just wasn't able to get up and down the court like other college players. He was clearly behind his peers in terms of energy level, but fortunately is way ahead in size and ability. He was also pretty foul prone in college. Seriously, I'm not making this stuff up.


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