# trade...



## damaverick19 (Mar 24, 2005)

At this point I would have to assume Avery is asking himself if it was a coaching inadequacy that prevented Dirk from overcoming his "emotional hump" or if Dirk is who he is and coaching has done what it can( from a leadership standpoint, not coaching better defense) 
I feel if Avery answers to himself that its a coaching issue then his pride will make him keep Dirk and hope the transition occurs next season. On the other hand if the coaches feel Dirk will not make the next step then a possible trade may occur. 
Obviously Dirk is still seen by the organization as a top five guy in the league but its not individuals or even groups of individuals that ultimately win, its the right combination of skills. Let's be honest, Dirk is NOT the PROTOTYPICAL Avery forward. What did make him valuable to Avery and probably why he won the MVP was his ability to be the focus of either a small line up or a big lineup. That flexibility is what helped match up against the many various lineups in the season and which consequently led to a 67 win season. 
The fact is the playoff's are not 32 teams with different 12 different players, its three teams(three rounds) with closer to 7 players. 
This means plaoffs need more specific players then regular season. I would even say that certain teams are built for the playoffs while others for the regular season.
A lot of what I said is obvious. But the point I want to make is this: you are only as good as your worse match up(player vs player on court)on the floor. The 1 & 2 position bothers me. Devin Harris is for sure a keeper but Jason Terry has to go. If you look at every team that has it's way with the Mavericks its either with an athletic center or a strong\quick two guard. Baron Davis, Dwayne Wade, Kobe, ray allen, and many other two gaurds. While I know these are elite players, but to be an elite team you have to contain these players. Jason Terry cannot match up agaisnt any of these guys. He is a dead weight on defense at times and on top of that during the golden state series when Dirk was doubled and trippled team, its the responsibility of the slasher\passer to utilize the floor when the defense is out of place. Terry shoots first. 
I don't know much about trading but I would trade Dirk and Terry for Lual Deng and Kirk Heinrich. (and whatever draft spots and dead weight contracts to balance out) Kirk would be our defense matchup at the 2 and loal deng, along with Josh Howard would allow for a more athletic foward defense and attack. It would even help to hinder players like Amere and other athletic F\C. 
My thoughts on the future....


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

Well said.

Dirk won't go anywhere. He's THE franchise player on a team that won 67 games in the regular season.

I think Terry can be used as trade bait to bring in a #5 that we REALLY need.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

edwardcyh said:


> Well said.
> 
> Dirk won't go anywhere. He's THE franchise player on a team that won 67 games in the regular season.
> 
> I think Terry can be used as trade bait to bring in a #5 that we REALLY need.


Name someone who is available and more valuable than Dampier or Terry :whoknows:


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

The concept of trading Dirk is extremely complex. I don’t know if I can remember when an MVP was seen in such a negative light. Ideally, you’d want to trade him because his value is at an all time high; but I submit to you that his value was higher 4 years ago than it is now – people will pay for the prospectus, not for what they see as used (up) goods. 

The proposal you submit is (regrettably) not far from accurate. "Dirk and Terry for Lual Deng and Kirk Heinrich" on paper is a farce, but in reality the league would see this as a pretty fair deal because of the Bulls' potentials – the salaries are far from the mandate – but the hypothetical values are in my opinion appropriate. 

Dirk and Terry have no hidden value at this point in their careers, whereas Deng and Kirk are on their way up.


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## damaverick19 (Mar 24, 2005)

I want to clarify that I am not saying the Mavericks SHOULD trade Dirk only that we as fans dont't see the practises and the all around confidence of players off the court. So, if coaches see something above what we know it is plausible for a trade. But even if he stays I still feel Terry should be traded. I also love Diop and I feel he is one of the hardest workers on the team. I also like three young guys, pops, ager and that white point guard(forgot his name, woops. In my opinion pops and DJ are more athletic upgrades then Dampier. While I am not ranting on Dampier and I still see him as valuable to the team, the development of some younger more athletic f\c can help the team defend the paint better against pick and roals and goden state style slashers(which the league seems to be eating up) So in short I think if a shut down 2 guard who shoots the three is available for Dampier the trade would be prudent. Mostly because we are much weaker at the 2 then at the 5, in my opinion. 

Side note: now i see why Marquis Daniels did so well under Don Nelson. Don loves his slasher...


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

I dont wanna see Dirk gone but if we keep him we need to move some other peices so he doesnt end up our #1 option again...

we need to make a serious push for Dwight, Oden, Bosh, Amare, or Okufur...yeah these guys are almost impossible to get but Ive seen enough sports to know that A team can get something for nothing if they really push...ie Walker, Shaq and Rasheed...


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Dragnsmke1 said:


> I dont wanna see Dirk gone but if we keep him we need to move some other peices so he doesnt end up our #1 option again...
> 
> we need to make a serious push for Dwight, Oden, Bosh, Amare, or Okufur...yeah these guys are almost impossible to get but Ive seen enough sports to know that A team can get something for nothing if they really push...ie Walker, Shaq and Rasheed...


The problem is that the players you have listed are all young. When Walker, Shaq and Rasheed were traded, they were already in the thirties.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

damaverick19 said:


> While I am not ranting on Dampier and I still see him as valuable to the team, *the development of some younger more athletic f\c can help the team defend the paint better *against pick and roals and goden state style slashers(which the league seems to be eating up) So in short I think if a shut down 2 guard who shoots the three is available for Dampier the trade would be prudent. Mostly because we are much weaker at the 2 then at the 5, in my opinion.


When reading this comment, this thought screams at me: How to teach the most athletic big man on our roster (Mbenga - also the cheapest) the nuances of working the paint. Would Dampier be the one to show the young protege the secrets to his craft, and would he be willing? Just the thought of Dampier with D.J.'s athletic ability makes me drool...:drool2:


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

MBENGA! MBENGA! MBENGA!

Is it too early to start a "Mbenga 4 MVP" campaign?

:lol:


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

trade dirk and terry for heinrich and deng??? you guys are bonkers...i know this year was dissappointing for you guys, but jeez...terry, yeah he is a liability, but you cannot trade dirk...


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Dirk doesn't need to go, he's a good player, I just don't want to rely on him in the clutch anymore. We need a strong-willed offensive player to carry us for those stretches. We need that Van Exel type back.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

_Dre_ said:


> Dirk doesn't need to go, he's a good player, I just don't want to rely on him in the clutch anymore. We need a strong-willed offensive player to carry us for those stretches. We need that Van Exel type back.



the clippers will give you maggette, ewing, mobley and kaman for terry and dirk....deal???:biggrin:

forgot to add that we need to receive at least one of your centers though, any one will do, except dampier because the contracts wouldn't work....


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

bootstrenf said:


> the clippers will give you maggette, ewing, mobley and kaman for terry and dirk....deal???:biggrin:


Did you "accidentally" leave off Brand? :biggrin:


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

All this said, I'd do Dirk for KG, or maybe even try and get KG without dealing Dirk in a second. It's my opinion that Avery is trying to mold Dirk into KG anyway, he'd fit the offense better than Dirk would.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

edwardcyh said:


> Did you "accidentally" leave off Brand? :biggrin:



he's old, gets paid too much, and he's not a "vocal" leader, you guys wouldn't want him anyways...:biggrin:



and he's going bald...just so you know...do you really want a bald player representing your franchise???


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> All this said, I'd do Dirk for KG, or maybe even try and get KG without dealing Dirk in a second. It's my opinion that Avery is trying to mold Dirk into KG anyway, he'd fit the offense better than Dirk would.


Consider this from the Maverick's newsletter (Sefco)



> It's not always about the Mavericks. There are other teams out there that try to feast on somebody else's bum luck. And if it comes out that Minnesota is dumping Garnett, you can be certain the deals will pour in.
> 
> Houston has the obvious ability to make something happen with Tracy McGrady. They could package T-Mac with Luther Head or Rafer Alston and a big man not named Yao Ming. The question they have to answer is whether they could find backcourt help to make a Yao-Garnett pairing work.
> 
> ...


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

> Anyway, it's an interesting situation. Some of us believe Minnesota has to do something with Garnett to have any chance of moving forward. If they could get three solid, relatively young players in return, *it would expedite their rebuilding efforts around Randy Foye.*


that made me laugh a little bit...minnesota is getting rid of garnett to build around randy foye???:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

bootstrenf said:


> he's old, gets paid too much, and he's not a "vocal" leader, you guys wouldn't want him anyways...:biggrin:
> 
> 
> 
> and he's going bald...just so you know...do you really want a bald player representing your franchise???


lol...

but he's African American. :biggrin:

:joke:


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

edwardcyh said:


> lol...
> 
> but he's African American. :biggrin:
> 
> :joke:



okay, you twisted my arm...i'll throw in paul davis *and* guillermo diaz...


now that is an offer you absolutely can't refuse...but of course, since we gave you the puerto rican rocket, you will have to throw in josh howard...i guess i would begrudgingly accept...

maggette/ewing/mobley/kaman/diaz/davis

for

nowitzki/terry/howard/mbenga

and we'll swap first rounders next year...

clippers:

pg: cassell/law
sg: terry/ross
sf: howard/ross
pf: brand/thomas
ce: nowitzki/mbenga

dallas:

pg: harris/diaz/ewing
sg: mobley/stack/diaz
sf: maggette/george
pf: croshere???:lol:/davis
ce: kaman/diop/dampier


i can't see a single reason why you guys *wouldn't* want the trade...


deal???


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

xray said:


> Consider this from the Maverick's newsletter (Sefco)


What does that mean in regards to what I said? Dirk's young. Dirk and Howard for KG and maybe Ricky Davis...I'd do it.


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

bootstrenf said:


> deal???


Why don't our teams just switch jersey?

:lol:


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> What does that mean in regards to what I said? Dirk's young. Dirk and Howard for KG and maybe Ricky Davis...I'd do it.


You'd do Irk and Howard for KG and *MAYBE* Davis?

I am actually glad to have Nellie's son as our GM......


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

edwardcyh said:


> Why don't our teams just switch jersey?
> 
> :lol:



except brand, and you have yourself a deal!!!


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

edwardcyh said:


> You'd do Irk and Howard for KG and *MAYBE* Davis?
> 
> I am actually glad to have Nellie's son as our GM......


The maybe was _which_ player we got along with KG, not _if_.


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## xray (Feb 21, 2005)

_Dre_ said:


> What does that mean in regards to what I said? Dirk's young. Dirk and Howard for KG and maybe Ricky Davis...I'd do it.


Sorry it was out of the blue, but I was saying we're not the only team that knows about KG. :biggrin:


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## edwardcyh (Dec 13, 2005)

Who's KG?

:whoknows:


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

edwardcyh said:


> Who's KG?
> 
> :whoknows:


Someone fishing like we are.


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## t1no (Jul 10, 2005)

No Thank You.


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