# Its Official This Season is a Failure



## REEF_DA_CHIEF (Jun 19, 2005)

Here is why?
The definition of failure according to the Merriam Webster Dictionary provided me by AOL is :the nonperformance of an assigned or expected action.

The Heat has been just that; a complete dereliction of expectations. I dont want to sound like Dr. Doom, I will leave that to PAt Riley but we have three more losses at this point to equal the losses at the end of last season. Last season by the way was deemed a failure as well according to Riley.

The trades that were made were suppose to fill the gaps left last year, it turned out the gaps got bigger. 

We have not addressed our defensive laxity, though Posey is ok on defense we need more folks like Shandon Anderson and Alonzo- the Heat's most consistent players.

Wade though he touches our hearts, has not widened his game to include the 3pt line or the baseline jumpshot. He should be making every shot when he is open, _see Kobe_. 

Riley better swallow is pride and realize his creation is nothing short of Frankenstein. He needs to look for hope before the trade deadline of getting a perimeter shooter and defender. Start getting rid of dead weights in Doleac, Kapano and Fitch. Utilize Dorell, Baron and Walker more. Preach defense and drown the guys in the urgency that is at hand. 

It's time the Heat get back to three a day practices.


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

Why should Riley do all that if this season is a failure, like you said? Why not just go with this starting lineup:

PG- Fitch
SG- Wade
SF- Wright
PF- Simien
C- O'Neal/Barron

May as well develop the young talent if this season is over before the all-star break.


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## xPAGANx (Dec 19, 2005)

REEF_DA_CHIEF said:


> Here is why?
> The definition of failure according to the Merriam Webster Dictionary provided me by AOL is :the nonperformance of an assigned or expected action.
> 
> The Heat has been just that; a complete dereliction of expectations. I dont want to sound like Dr. Doom, I will leave that to PAt Riley but we have three more losses at this point to equal the losses at the end of last season. Last season by the way was deemed a failure as well according to Riley.
> ...


I know it was a tough loss for you tonight, but your season is far from a failure. It might not be as good as last years season, but if Miami gets to the playoffs then you can't call them a failure. Especially if they can managed to snag 2nd seed.

Don't let a rough night wear ya out. The season still has plenty of games left.


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

Better yet, they should trade Zo and Payton for future 1st-rounders.


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## REEF_DA_CHIEF (Jun 19, 2005)

While Riley is considering what I said he should trash Posey and give Walker back to the Celtics and apologize to him for ever believe he was good talent. Should I compare Avery Johnson, Popovich, or Flip to Riley? Or would I be opening a pandora's box? If the Heat loses to Detriot this week, Riley should retire, Shaq should retire, ZO should retire and Payton should retire. Micky needs to lobby for Isaiah Thomas for team president and we will all be happy.


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

im not going to beleive that this season is a failure. cant be. refuse to believe it. too early 

maybe your definition of failure is not winning the championship.......

will the Heat be champs this year? so far by the looks of it....nope

if the Heat make it to the finals, i wouldnt consider it a failure..
if the Heat made it to the ECF, i wouldnt consider it a failure...
if the Heat make it to the playoffs(1st and 2nd round)and lose,then its a failure, it would mean taking a step back from last season...

theres still hope in this Heat team


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

I'm gonna try to refrain from calling you a fairweather fan.

Instead, I'll just chalk up to a little frustration after an embarassing loss.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

guys, our team has so much potential. Games like this suck, but with how crappy the east is we dont have to be that good to make the ECF, and I think we are a couple improvements away from being able to compete (notice I didnt say beat. That would take more improvements) with the Pistons

also, our team will improve. Dont doubt that. Riley now coaching and all the injuries we had now healed, we could set the rotation and work on our problems entirely


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

wadeshaqeddie said:


> guys, our team has so much potential. Games like this suck, but with how crappy the east is we dont have to be that good to make the ECF, and I think we are a couple improvements away from being able to compete (notice I didnt say beat. That would take more improvements) with the Pistons
> 
> also, our team will improve. Dont doubt that. Riley now coaching and all the injuries we had now healed, we could set the rotation and work on our problems entirely


Definately some truth to that. 

Call me crazy, but this loss might be the best thing to happen to Miami this season. So often this season, if they didn't have the injuries to use as excuses, they'd been either coasting against mediocre to good teams and either winning or losing close ones to great teams. A blowout like this, their worst loss of the season, might be the wake-up call that this team has needed.


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## REEF_DA_CHIEF (Jun 19, 2005)

If I could curse on this board I would tell you that little four letter word that everyone loves to use. I am the epitome of a great fan, I get upset when my team gets blown out by a team that is coached by a rookie. Yes I consider not winning a championship the ultimate failure. I could give two pieces of cow dung about ECF or winning the Division. Championship is why bad Kidney ZO is playing WHy RIley is coach, why Payton is 2nd string pg after 16 years starting. I cannot understand why a seemingly talented team cannot beat the top five teams of the league. If you lose at least lose by two points but 112-76 thats a Pistons- Hawks boxscore. Anyone want the rest of my season tickets?



DBurks2818 said:


> I'm gonna try to refrain from calling you a fairweather fan.
> 
> Instead, I'll just chalk up to a little frustration after an embarassing loss.


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

REEF_DA_CHIEF said:


> If I could curse on this board I would tell you that little four letter word that everyone loves to use. I am the epitome of a great fan, I get upset when my team gets blown out by a team that is coached by a rookie. Yes I consider not winning a championship the ultimate failure. I could give two pieces of cow dung about ECF or winning the Division. Championship is why bad Kidney ZO is playing WHy RIley is coach, why Payton is 2nd string pg after 16 years starting. I cannot understand why a seemingly talented team cannot beat the top five teams of the league. If you lose at least lose by two points but 112-76 thats a Pistons- Hawks boxscore. *Anyone want the rest of my season tickets?*


Ill take `em!!

if the Heat do manage to win the whole thing, ill just mail the ticket stubs to you and leave you a note letting you know what you missed :biggrin:


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

Let me tell you something.

A great fan doesn't declare their team's season a failure when the season is slightly past the halfway point. You don't win championships in February.

I understand why you're upset (and I'm not happy about their recent performance either), but you're blowing this out of proportion. Right now, you sound like a spoiled fan.


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## REEF_DA_CHIEF (Jun 19, 2005)

DBurks2818 said:


> Let me tell you something.
> 
> A great fan doesn't declare their team's season a failure when the season is slightly past the halfway point. You don't win championships in February.
> 
> I understand why you're upset (and I'm not happy about their recent performance either), but you're blowing this out of proportion. Right now, you sound like a spoiled fan.



I am a Realist not a Bushist (we will win the war in Iraq) but I am entitled to be spoiled but dont tell me I am not a great fan. I work for the Heat.


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

so do you still want you season tickets?


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## PartisanRanger (Oct 24, 2004)

It's so hard to tell what's going on with this team, one day they're solidly beating the hot Cavaliers and the next they're getting absolutely demolished by Dallas. There is yet still hope, but we have a lot of work to do.


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## maswe12 (Feb 23, 2005)

PartisanRanger said:


> It's so hard to tell what's going on with this team, one day they're solidly beating the hot Cavaliers and the next they're getting absolutely demolished by Dallas. There is yet still hope, but we have a lot of work to do.



Cavs were a tired team and they arent too close to being at the elite level in this league. Neither are we...This team was just not put together well.


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## KingOfTheHeatians (Jul 22, 2005)

We suck. This was an inexcusably pathetic performance. We had two days of rest and were in dire need of a statement performance against a great team. Well, we made a statement alright. We stated loud and clear that WE ARE PRETENDERS, NOT CONTENDERS. 

We're 50 games into the season. We should not be getting humiliated on national television like that. We have to make several moves and just go back to the drawing board. The only thing that makes me feel the least bit optimistic about the future is the fact that we have Dwyane Wade. Hopefully, Dwyane will still be in his 20s by the time we put the right pieces around him to have a legit chance at a title.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

Everytime we lose, Do we really need to make a thread like this?

We're not the best team in the league, but we have potential, and we're ironing out alot of changes from coaching/injuries/new players/new systems/etc. 

Who really cares about this game? It's a blip on the radar in the big picture. Remember 2 years ago (for those of you who were *actually* Heat fans at that time) when we started 0-7? Do you think the Pacers gave two ****s about those 7 games when we took the floor for game 6 of the East Semi-Finals? 

Quit making huge deals about things that aren't that important in the big picture. Losing to Phoenix/Dallas really doesn't concern me as much as losing to NJ or Cleveland or Detroit, b/c those are the teams we NEED to beat when things really matter.


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

Shaq_Diesel is a real fan.


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

HEAT SUCKS!!!!
SHAQ IS FAT !!!
WADE HAS NO JUMPSHOT!!!!
PAYTON IS OLD!!!!!
ZO IS A PUNK!!!!!
POSEY A FAILURE!!!!
ANTONIE WALKER THE ANTICHRIST!!!!
HASLEM TOO SOFT!!!
WRIGHT A 10 YEAR OLD ROOKIE!!!
JWILL TOO WHITE CHOCOLATE!!!
KAPONO A WEIRDO!!!
ANDERSON INJURY PRONE!!!!
RILEY A DUMB GM!!
[email protected]!!!!!!!!
[email protected]!!!!!!!

I still havent given up even though i havent watch many games to draw a conclusion just yet.


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## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)

DBurks2818 said:


> Let me tell you something.
> 
> A great fan doesn't declare their team's season a failure when the season is slightly past the halfway point. You don't win championships in February.
> 
> I understand why you're upset (and I'm not happy about their recent performance either), but you're blowing this out of proportion. Right now, you sound like a spoiled fan.


you don't win championship in February, but anybody with a basketball IQ saw tonight as ANOTHER example of how far Miami is behind the rest of the elite teams in the league. First of all, let's not even talk about chemistry. Tonight Miami looked STEPS slower than the Mavericks. They got beat on defense multiple times, and the only guy who actually played a real form of defense was Wade, that's it. All others were outrebounded, outjumped, outhustled, giving up penetration, etc.

secondly, compare and contrast the Heat and the Mavericks and what do you see? The Heat is got bunch of slow, old veterans. JW couldn't even pushed the flow because when he did he was the only one moving forward. Mavericks got jump shooters after jump shooters. Miami has, really, none. Posey can shoot but not good enough to be a threat, as well as Payton and JW. Shaq's defense is a joke and offensively he really doesn't change the game that much anymore, he is no longer automatic. Also, from tonight, Miami had no idea what they were running. There was hardly any offense, while the Mavericks came out knew exactly what to ran in their offense. Furthermore, Walker---he looked like (again) he didn't how to play basketball. You need a sixth man who can energizes the team and push the team for a stretch---he can do neither, and so much for the "point forward': he can't dribble, he sucks at shooting, and as of right now he doesn't fit into the system as he is clueless in how to play team basketball.

Mavericks, on the other hand, got fast guys all around the perimeter. Oh yeah, they got size too inside and outside. They were willing to shoot, be aggressive, and go after rebounds. Nobody forced the issue and though Dirk is the guy the Mavericks spread the ball and court well that unlike the Heat, they didn't have to get Wade or Shaq invovled on multiple possessions.

I was impressed with the Mavericks tonight, and the Heat got issues that cannot be fixed given 1) age, 2) physical limits, and 3) the flow of the team.

I guarantee you, this season is over. The TNT crew knows it. Why do you think their prediction for the finals were all pistons vs spurs?


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## LuckyAC (Aug 12, 2004)

REEF_DA_CHIEF said:


> If you lose at least lose by two points but 112-76 thats a Pistons- Hawks boxscore. Anyone want the rest of my season tickets?


Hawks beat the Pistons


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## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> Everytime we lose, Do we really need to make a thread like this?
> 
> We're not the best team in the league, but we have potential, and we're ironing out alot of changes from coaching/injuries/new players/new systems/etc.
> 
> ...


I actually do worry about losing to Phoenix and Dallas, because of the way we lose. We got SPANKED. OKay? You mentioned two years ago but I am not settling for a second round of the playoffs. I want championship. The problems that the Heat has is almost unfixable unless they get new players. Oh yeah, and we have trouble beating Cleveland and the Nets too, when we are supposed to be right there with the Pistons as an elite team. Right now, we don't have anything to sustain ourselves and the way we lose to those teams expose our weaknesses that will come back to haunt us in the playoffs

right now it's beyond team chemistry. We are slow on offense, slow on defense, clueless as hell, can't make a shot. Also, if you want to be an elite team, you must win on the road. The Heat has been absolutely horrible on the road. Another sign


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

At least wait until the last day you can sign free agents for playoff rosters, after the trading deadline.

After that point, the only way the team can otherwise get better is through building chemistry.


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

And it's funny to see that when Dallas beat Detroit by 30 points too, Detroit had an "off-night."

But when Miami (Who had won 6 of its last 7 coming into this game and were obviously building steam with some players finally coming back from injuries) loses by 30, "They suck and this season is a failure."

Ok guys :laugh:, keep on truckin'.


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## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)

DBurks2818 said:


> And it's funny to see that when Dallas beat Detroit by 30 points too, Detroit had an "off-night."
> 
> But when Miami (Who had won 6 of its last 7 coming into this game and were obviously building steam with some players finally coming back from injuries) loses by 30, "They suck and this season is a failure."
> 
> Ok guys :laugh:, keep on truckin'.


1. Watch how Detroit plays and how Miami plays

2. Compare the record between Detroit and Miami

3. Look at what has transpired over the season for Miami

4. You really think we are equal with the Pistons?


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

> 3. Look at what has transpired over the season for Miami


Excellent point here. This pretty much erases the first two points, because Miami's simply had to struggle against more adversity than the Pistons. Some freak injuries and a coaching change have really hurt the Heat's momentum at every turn. At some point, though, that should stop happening.

Like I said in another topic, give Miami its starters for every one of the 50 games they've played so far, and they're somewhere between San Antonio and Detroit record wise.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

GoDWade said:


> you don't win championship in February, but anybody with a basketball IQ saw tonight as ANOTHER example of how far Miami is behind the rest of the elite teams in the league. First of all, let's not even talk about chemistry. Tonight Miami looked STEPS slower than the Mavericks. They got beat on defense multiple times, and the only guy who actually played a real form of defense was Wade, that's it. All others were outrebounded, outjumped, outhustled, giving up penetration, etc.
> 
> secondly, compare and contrast the Heat and the Mavericks and what do you see? The Heat is got bunch of slow, old veterans. JW couldn't even pushed the flow because when he did he was the only one moving forward. Mavericks got jump shooters after jump shooters. Miami has, really, none. Posey can shoot but not good enough to be a threat, as well as Payton and JW. Shaq's defense is a joke and offensively he really doesn't change the game that much anymore, he is no longer automatic. Also, from tonight, Miami had no idea what they were running. There was hardly any offense, while the Mavericks came out knew exactly what to ran in their offense. Furthermore, Walker---he looked like (again) he didn't how to play basketball. You need a sixth man who can energizes the team and push the team for a stretch---he can do neither, and so much for the "point forward': he can't dribble, he sucks at shooting, and as of right now he doesn't fit into the system as he is clueless in how to play team basketball.
> 
> ...


If the Heat go deep in the playoffs, I'm gonna make you regret this thread so much you might just change fan bases...............oh, and I'll put my guarantee on that.

Dallas spanked us last year, who cares. We don't match up with them, they're in the West, we're in the East. Why worry about them? Take care of your own business first, you think they worry about Miami over Phoenix/San Antonio/etc.? Hell no...That's looking too far ahead. You gotta understand that before you can start making "season ending" predictions for the Heat.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

GoDWade said:


> 4. You really think we are equal with the Pistons?


Not for nothin, we looked pretty good against the Pistons at the Palace eariler this year. We have them at home Sunday, and i'm feeling pretty confident. I guess we'll find out just how close to them we are.

Its painful to get blown out like this, but as SD said, we can't really put too much into what we do against West teams. We're not getting the #1 seed this year so losses to the top West teams really don't effect us at all.


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## nickrock23 (Mar 28, 2004)

dude whoever started this thread is 100% right and anyone disputing it is blind. i said this the DAY we made the trade, we HAVE NO SHOOTERS. i'm not jack ramsey but i do know that to have a successful basketball team you need someone who can hit jumpers. 
posey is shooting as well as eddie had, you can make arguments for both there, but the fact is posey is a downgrade in every other facet of the game. walker has been a nightmare. and jason williams has been hurt.
maybe i was wrong about stan, i'll admit it. but im working on a wade video right now and i just got done watching 3 hours of footage and i have to say guys like grant, eddie, wade, damon, rasual, udonis, caron, these guys are so friggin easy to coach. i mean those guys are the definition of "coachable". now we have coaches nightmares in walker and williams. i watched this one play, eddie got the ball from wade, eddie fed it to shaq, shaq passed it to haslem at the top of the key and haslem passed it to a cutting wade on the baseline for a dunk. i dont see that continuity this year ever. it was so beautiful to watch last year, and we didnt just break up the team we got rid of 8 guys. 
i feel more comfortable with shandon than walker. my only problem with shandon is he isnt a great shooter. why should we have to settle when we had guys like EJ DJ and raz? pisses me off.
if i had to pick this team over our 03-04 team, id have to think hard about that. seriously.
the only chance we have at taking detroit out is trading walker, thats the harsh reality. we can't trade mourning. love to have dooling back. that guy was the spark we lack this year. we have no energy guys off the bench. 

first off the bench for UD should be simien, first off the bench for JP should be shandon or kapono, first off the bench for Jwill should be Fitch, shaq should be on the floor w/mourning at times, shake this team up b4 it's too late.


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## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

xPAGANx said:


> I know it was a tough loss for you tonight, but your season is far from a failure. It might not be as good as last years season, but if Miami gets to the playoffs then you can't call them a failure. Especially if they can managed to snag 2nd seed.
> 
> Don't let a rough night wear ya out. The season still has plenty of games left.


If we just get to the playoffs it's not a failure? Anything less than a championship is a failure. 

Last night was pathetic. I understand that we don't match up well against the Mavs, but we could've showed a little more effort. It was ugly, and I hope Riley tore a new *** hole into the team.


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## MOHeat (Aug 4, 2005)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> Everytime we lose, Do we really need to make a thread like this?
> 
> We're not the best team in the league, but we have potential, and we're ironing out alot of changes from coaching/injuries/new players/new systems/etc.
> 
> ...


The mentality of our team *is a big deal * when looking at the big picture. Its not when we lose its how we lose, we lost because we showed absolutely no heart. As a real fan, I remember that year and instead of caving when Pat quit on the team they chose to play for one another and we made the season one to remember. I can't say that about our present team. 

We have to make a big deal when we aren't playing for one another and show no effort or no heart. No disrespect, but you sound like someone that's under the impression we can turn it on in the playoffs. That's the mentality that's killin us.


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## JayRedd (Jan 2, 2006)

This season will be a failure for the Heat if they don't win a Championship. That said, that's a long time from now and, barring major injuries, Miami is one of about 5 teams that have any shot of winning the NBA Finals.

I know watching your team get embarrassed on national TV is frustrating, but you guys still have a legit chance to win a Championship. And it's fairly common for teams to just put it on cruise control the week before the All Star break. And honestly, it sucks and you can call it no heart, but it's really just a group of dudes looking forward to having a few days off. Unfortunately, that just not something you can do against this Dallas team. But in reality, that's more of a credit to how good Dallas is than a testeament to why your "season is a failure" in February, before the trade deadline, no less. 

Calm down and wait for April to start panicing, because right now the only team's with a snowball's chance in hell (barring major injury) of winning a title are Detroit, San Antoino, Dallas, Phoenix and Miami. You're going to be a 2 seed going into the playoffs. If Antoine Walker starts throwing up 0-14 games in the 2nd Round of the Playoffs, then it's time to curse Riley/Shaq etc. But until then, just try to watch your squad gel.

Take it from a Pacers fan, someone who's season was actually ended prematurely.


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## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

How can anyone say that this isn't a big deal? Are you blind!? We lost by 30 points. We're supposed to be a championship contender. Open your eyes.

I understand that it's still the middle of the season and there's a lot of time left. But this was as ugly as it gets.


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## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> If the Heat go deep in the playoffs, I'm gonna make you regret this thread so much you might just change fan bases...............oh, and I'll put my guarantee on that.
> 
> Dallas spanked us last year, who cares. We don't match up with them, they're in the West, we're in the East. Why worry about them? Take care of your own business first, you think they worry about Miami over Phoenix/San Antonio/etc.? Hell no...That's looking too far ahead. You gotta understand that before you can start making "season ending" predictions for the Heat.


It's on then, =)

again, I worry because we keep on getting spanked by those teams---to me we got to beat those *second tier *teams as "taking care of our own business". Again, this season has been the story of us beating okay teams at home, and getting absolutely owned on the road by the good teams. I want to compare the Heat to the rest of the good teams in the league because in theory we are that good. But time and time again we always fell short, REALLY short.

furthermore, I believe the faults of this team (at least some of them) are non-fixable (as in you can't just tell Gary Payton, "RUN FASTER!"). So no matter how much we will improve the sole physical match up between players will own us as Shaq is no longer an automatic.

one more thing, I am a basketball fan before a Heat fan, so I analyze the game and get to conclusions even at time when I don't like them (i.e. how good Kobe is)


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## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)

DBurks2818 said:


> Excellent point here. This pretty much erases the first two points, because Miami's simply had to struggle against more adversity than the Pistons. Some freak injuries and a coaching change have really hurt the Heat's momentum at every turn. At some point, though, that should stop happening.
> 
> Like I said in another topic, give Miami its starters for every one of the 50 games they've played so far, and they're somewhere between San Antonio and Detroit record wise.


1. Coaching changes...yeah...









2. I wouldn't discount the Pistons has having it easier---did you see what Larry Brown did to that team?

I would want to agree with you on how good Miami is, but I can't. Our perimeter defense, lack of shooting, lack of flow in the offense kills me. I am more convinced given that Shaq is not Shaq anymore, and he really doesn't care about it (I suppose). He looks more fit now but that's about the only good thing that has changed. As much as I hope I just don't see Shaq as a leader on that team anymore. And Wade's got jump shot issues, and he is a great player but yesterday showed that he was about the only guy (probably also Haslem) who played hard and competed.


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## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)

Heated said:


> Not for nothin, we looked pretty good against the Pistons at the Palace eariler this year. We have them at home Sunday, and i'm feeling pretty confident. I guess we'll find out just how close to them we are.
> 
> Its painful to get blown out like this, but as SD said, we can't really put too much into what we do against West teams. We're not getting the #1 seed this year so losses to the top West teams really don't effect us at all.


I am not sure if I understand why SD and you say we can't really put too much into what we go against West teams. To me I think we definitely should. Those are good teams and we are supposed to be a good team. I want to see how we fare against them when we are supposed to establish ourselves as an elite team. I want to see how we match up against those teams since I assume that we are shooting for a championship, not a second roiund of the playoffs. 

The losses affect me because it is the way we lose. It is painful to watch that the Heat allows a guy to penetrate from the 3 point line and the whole defense collapses. T

Try to see the games from a stand of point of a coach, I think you will be worried greatly as last night was another testimony on how far we are behind or about the same with medicore teams like Cavs and the Nets...


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

GoDWade said:


> I am not sure if I understand why SD and you say we can't really put too much into what we go against West teams. To me I think we definitely should. Those are good teams and we are supposed to be a good team. I want to see how we fare against them when we are supposed to establish ourselves as an elite team. I want to see how we match up against those teams since I assume that we are shooting for a championship, not a second roiund of the playoffs.
> 
> The losses affect me because it is the way we lose. It is painful to watch that the Heat allows a guy to penetrate from the 3 point line and the whole defense collapses. T
> 
> Try to see the games from a stand of point of a coach, I think you will be worried greatly as last night was another testimony on how far we are behind or about the same with medicore teams like Cavs and the Nets...


Simply put, we got beat by a superior team. Luckily for us we won't have to deal with them again unless we get the the finals, and they happen to get there as well. We don't stack up well against a lot of the West teams. On paper, we look good, on the floor, different story. Still, only a little more than half a season has gone by, no need to hit the panic button just yet. There's no sense in dwelling over this loss. Its not gonna make it go away. We need to be looking ahead.

I'm as hard on this team as anyone, believe me, but that doesn't mean i'm ready to throw in the towel already. Shame on those of you who are.


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

Heated said:


> I'm as hard on this team as anyone, believe me, but that doesn't mean i'm ready to throw in the towel already. Shame on those of you who are.


 :clap: beliee dat!


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## REEF_DA_CHIEF (Jun 19, 2005)

I am looking forward to Detroit on Sunday. If the Heat don't play this game with some urgency, then I guess we can just wish they will "switch it on" come playoff time, if we make the playoffs. We are but a few games outside of not making it.


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

REEF_DA_CHIEF said:


> I am looking forward to Detroit on Sunday. If the Heat don't play this game with some urgency, then I guess we can just wish they will "switch it on" come playoff time, if we make the playoffs. We are but a few games outside of not making it.


yeah, i wanna see how these guys respond to that horrendous display of basketball, and that embarrasing loss to the Mavs. lets see if these guys are up to the challenge


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## nickrock23 (Mar 28, 2004)

gio30584 said:


> :clap: beliee dat!



i don't think anyone here is giving up on them in a sense like we'll be out in the first round. will they make it to the eastern conf. finals again? i'd say its a 75% chance we will. i think most of it depends on if the Nets catch us. if they do, it'll be hard beating NJ in a 7 game series on the road. however, even if we beat them, whats the chances of us beating Detroit when they have home court? they're better than they were last year and we're worse. 
i honestly feel if we trade Walker for some defense we have a shot at Detroit.


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

Someone should sticky this topic so I know who not to take seriously in April/May and possibly June.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

REEF_DA_CHIEF said:


> While Riley is considering what I said he should trash Posey and give Walker back to the Celtics and apologize to him for ever believe he was good talent. Should I compare Avery Johnson, Popovich, or Flip to Riley? Or would I be opening a pandora's box? If the Heat loses to Detriot this week, Riley should retire, Shaq should retire, ZO should retire and Payton should retire. Micky needs to lobby for Isaiah Thomas for team president and we will all be happy.



Boy you wouldnt be a front running fan would you? If they won that game your post would be NBA Champs guarantee... your such a homer


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

REEF_DA_CHIEF said:


> I am looking forward to Detroit on Sunday. If the Heat don't play this game with some urgency, then I guess we can just wish they will "switch it on" come playoff time, if we make the playoffs. We are but a few games outside of not making it.


A few games from missing it?

You have the wizards as your only threat at 1 game over .500 hahaha

And after the all star break you play 9 teams that are over .500 !!!!!!


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> If the Heat go deep in the playoffs, I'm gonna make you regret this thread so much you might just change fan bases...............oh, and I'll put my guarantee on that.
> 
> Dallas spanked us last year, who cares. We don't match up with them, they're in the West, we're in the East. Why worry about them? Take care of your own business first, you think they worry about Miami over Phoenix/San Antonio/etc.? Hell no...That's looking too far ahead. You gotta understand that before you can start making "season ending" predictions for the Heat.


*Edited* I feel sorry for you SD... People are comparing the Pistons team today as one of the best, going after the Bulls record. So comparing them to the Heat now would be unfair. You will have the 2nd/3rd seed reguardless of your future play.

I just love other teams fans, everyone on this board should try and be a Cleveland sports fan, not just Cavs, Cleveland in general. See how long you would stick around, after a post like this it makes me laugh. One 30pt lose (heat) > or years and years of failure (cavs)


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## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

LBJ to LJ for 3 said:


> Your board and fan base are full of idiots. I feel sorry for you SD... People are comparing the Pistons team today as one of the best, going after the Bulls record. So comparing them to the Heat now would be unfair. You will have the 2nd/3rd seed reguardless of your future play.
> 
> I just love other teams fans, everyone on this board should try and be a Cleveland sports fan, not just Cavs, Cleveland in general. See how long you would stick around, after a post like this it makes me laugh. One 30pt lose (heat) > or years and years of failure (cavs)


LOL

It's one thing to throw in the towel for the rest of the season. But it's something else when you're just criticizing a team after an embarrising loss.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

sMaK said:


> LOL
> 
> It's one thing to throw in the towel for the rest of the season. But it's something else when you're just criticizing a team after an embarrising loss.


This whole thread and majority of the post are tossing in the season on one loss. You came to Cleveland early in the season and got spanked, we came to Miami and got spanked... I would guess right now neither team has thrown in the towl...


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

LBJ to LJ for 3 said:


> Your board and fan base are full of idiots. I feel sorry for you SD... People are comparing the Pistons team today as one of the best, going after the Bulls record. So comparing them to the Heat now would be unfair. You will have the 2nd/3rd seed reguardless of your future play.
> 
> I just love other teams fans, everyone on this board should try and be a Cleveland sports fan, not just Cavs, Cleveland in general. See how long you would stick around, after a post like this it makes me laugh. One 30pt lose (heat) > or years and years of failure (cavs)


*Edited*:banana: 

maybe if you actually read everything on this board you would realize that not every Heat fan agrees with this thread.


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## Larry Hughes for Retirement (Jul 5, 2004)

gio30584 said:


> your an idiot :banana:
> 
> maybe if you actually read everything on this board you would realize that not every Heat fan agrees with this thread.



I've read alot of your boards actually, and i get a kick out of how everthing is awful when you lose and great when you win.

I never singled you out, but its the majority, alot of bandwagon fans


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

First off, stop the name calling. It's not allowed and I'm tired of editing people. If it happens again here, I'll get you a little suspension for ignoring my warning.

It's a fact that this board swings WAY too much over wins/losses. You're all entitled to your opinion, if you think we suck, then that's your thoughts. If you think we're the next dynasty, then that's your opinion. Nobody can say you're right or wrong, and that's what this site is basically all about...

but what really pisses me off, and is what everyone is pointing out, is the same people who get so high over big wins, are the ones who throw in the towel after a big loss. But hey, that's fine....some people are real fans, and some of you are bandwagon fans. It's as simple as that. But just remember, when April-May-June rolls around, we'll remember the people who quit on us in February....


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

LBJ to LJ for 3 said:


> I've read alot of your boards actually, and i get a kick out of how everthing is awful when you lose and great when you win.
> 
> I never singled you out, but its the majority, alot of bandwagon fans


call it what you want man...

all i know is that im no bandwagon fan, and when the Heat lose i dont go all crazy, or when the Heat win.....i dont go all crazy about it either lol
(same goes for a few ppl here)


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## rundmc00 (Apr 19, 2005)

REEF_DA_CHIEF said:


> Here is why?
> The definition of failure according to the Merriam Webster Dictionary provided me by AOL is :the nonperformance of an assigned or expected action.
> 
> The Heat has been just that; a complete dereliction of expectations. I dont want to sound like Dr. Doom, I will leave that to PAt Riley but we have three more losses at this point to equal the losses at the end of last season. Last season by the way was deemed a failure as well according to Riley.
> ...


The funniest part of the Heat demise is that Riley fired SVG for his coaching, whereas Riley should have been fired for his GM work.


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

rundmc00 said:


> The funniest part of the Heat demise is that Riley fired SVG for his coaching, whereas Riley should have been fired for his GM work.


so when did it become official SVG got fired? damn i missed that!


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## rundmc00 (Apr 19, 2005)

gio30584 said:


> so when did it become official SVG got fired? damn i missed that!


When someone is forced out...I call it a firing.


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

rundmc00 said:


> When someone is forced out...I call it a firing.


when someone leaves a job for a better life with family.............i call it resigning.

It really comes down to what ppl think happened in that situation. 

there arent real "facts" as to what really happened with SVG and Pat, except for the resignation of SVG(which he made a speech about to the media) and im gonna stick with that, and i persoanlly believe thats what happened..


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## nickrock23 (Mar 28, 2004)

i dont know. maybe stan didnt get fired. maybe he didn't wanna coach some of these guys. look at what his brother did. he went to the EC finals and quit at the beginning of the next season.. now look at the knicks.

i agree this board always has a thread like this after a bad loss, but what you have to admit is we are great at beating inferior teams.

and we *didnt* have alot of this last year because we had some wins over "elite" teams, and while people in the media and haters in general made a big deal about our record against the west early on last year, we didn't. 

just cause someone says we aren't playing at an acceptable level right now doesn't mean when playoffs come we won't be living and dying by every possession, rooting harder than anything for the team we love. so stop with the bandwagon talk we all have a right to an opinion.


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## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)

LBJ to LJ for 3 said:


> *Edited* I feel sorry for you SD... People are comparing the Pistons team today as one of the best, going after the Bulls record. So comparing them to the Heat now would be unfair. You will have the 2nd/3rd seed reguardless of your future play.
> 
> I just love other teams fans, everyone on this board should try and be a Cleveland sports fan, not just Cavs, Cleveland in general. See how long you would stick around, after a post like this it makes me laugh. One 30pt lose (heat) > or years and years of failure (cavs)


everybody should be a Clippers fan.

also, this post reflects that your misunderstanding of Heat fans' frustration for the SEASON, not just one game


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## DemonaL (Aug 24, 2005)

we need a new lineup a little something like this

PG: Williams / GP
SG: Wade / Wright
SF: JP / Anderson
PF: ZO / Haslem
C: Shaq / Barron

im a little messed up on the SG spot, i know..


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## REEF_DA_CHIEF (Jun 19, 2005)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> First off, stop the name calling. It's not allowed and I'm tired of editing people. If it happens again here, I'll get you a little suspension for ignoring my warning.
> 
> It's a fact that this board swings WAY too much over wins/losses. You're all entitled to your opinion, if you think we suck, then that's your thoughts. If you think we're the next dynasty, then that's your opinion. Nobody can say you're right or wrong, and that's what this site is basically all about...
> 
> but what really pisses me off, and is what everyone is pointing out, is the same people who get so high over big wins, are the ones who throw in the towel after a big loss. But hey, that's fine....some people are real fans, and some of you are bandwagon fans. It's as simple as that. But just remember, when April-May-June rolls around, we'll remember the people who quit on us in February....


Dear Mr. Moderator,
I am entitled to my opinion. Because I am angry at the spate of stingy losses we have had does not make me a bandwagon fan. The losses we have had are ridiculous, no one here can say when we lose it was a justified loss or the loss looked pretty. When the Heat lose its an ugly loss. I am not ok with that! So far I DO believe we have FAILED to earn up to expectations. If a father scolds his child for getting too many F's in subjects he knows the child is good at and praises the child when he/she gets an A does that make daddy a bandwagon parent? Boards exist for a reason, either to state an opinion or fact, or to just VENT. Losing by 30 gives me the right to vent. An all star 5yr/100million player shouldnt be averaging 15-16 points over the last 10 games. All I am doing is rallying for a resolve here, we are failing and we need to do something about it. Read the starting thread again with an open mind, "hey this guy is a fan who is upset and is stating his case as to why he is upset?"


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## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> First off, stop the name calling. It's not allowed and I'm tired of editing people. If it happens again here, I'll get you a little suspension for ignoring my warning.
> 
> It's a fact that this board swings WAY too much over wins/losses. You're all entitled to your opinion, if you think we suck, then that's your thoughts. If you think we're the next dynasty, then that's your opinion. Nobody can say you're right or wrong, and that's what this site is basically all about...
> 
> but what really pisses me off, and is what everyone is pointing out, is the same people who get so high over big wins, are the ones who throw in the towel after a big loss. But hey, that's fine....some people are real fans, and some of you are bandwagon fans. It's as simple as that. But just remember, when April-May-June rolls around, we'll remember the people who quit on us in February....


I don't think anyone is quitting. A lot of are just pissed at this loss. I don't see a problem with it. I doubt REEF DA CHEIF is going to stop watching and rooting for the Heat. He's just angry. You've never been angry at a sports team? C'mon...


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

sMaK said:


> I don't think anyone is quitting. A lot of are just pissed at this loss. I don't see a problem with it. I doubt REEF DA CHEIF is going to stop watching and rooting for the Heat. He's just angry. You've never been angry at a sports team? C'mon...


i see where you coming from, weve all been trough this with our favorite teams, but damn, not to the point where you just jump in a conclusion about a season that is mid-way and call it a a failure. 

i dont mean to disrespect REEF DA CHEIF, cuz i know he was venting, ive been trough that as well. I just disagree with his thread(season is failure).

after that nasty loss with the Mavs, i think we could agree that *ALL* of us are concerned Heat fans.
It just feels like a huge let-down cuz of the expectations we put on this team since the trade went down. but look at the bright side:

-We still have a winning record(10 games above .500)
-We still have the 2nd seed in the East
-All of our players finally seem healthy(who knows, maybe after the ASG Heat could make a run)
- With Shaq and Wade, theres always a chance to go far

Im not happy with the Heats performance(with elite teams), but it doesnt mean im giving up on this team


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

Guys, Blame GP ! (If you do not know much of me, I am a GP hater and blame him for breaking the dynasty!) I hate you GP...............................Oh and Im not really blaming it on him although i really hate him.


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## DemonaL (Aug 24, 2005)

Lakermike05 said:


> Guys, Blame GP ! (If you do not know much of me, I am a GP hater and blame him for breaking the dynasty!) I hate you GP...............................Oh and Im not really blaming it on him although i really hate him.


lol thats to funny


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

REEF_DA_CHIEF said:


> Dear Mr. Moderator,
> I am entitled to my opinion. Because I am angry at the spate of stingy losses we have had doesnot make me a bandwagon fan. The loses we have had are ridiculous, no one here can say when we lose it was a justified loss or the loss looks pretty. When the Heat lose its an ugly loss. I am not ok with that. So far I DO believe we have FAILED to earn up to expectations. If a father scolds his child for getting too many F's in subjects he knows the child is good at and praises the child when he/she gets and A does that make daddy a bandwagon parent? Boards exist for a reason, either to state and opinion, or fact or to just VENT. Losing by 30 gives me the right to vent. An all star 5yr/100million player shouldnt be averaging 15-16 points over the last 10 games. All I am doing is rallying for a resolve here, we are failing and we need to do something about it. Read the starting thread again with an open mind, "hey this guy is a fan who is upset and is stating his case as to why he is upset?"


Can't do that. It would be different if you titled this topic as something like "We're not doing as well as we should be right now, how can the Heat perform up to expectations?" You know, posting something that looks at least remotely positive. I don't have a problem with fans venting, but at least vent in a meaningful, adult way. 

Calling the season of your *favorite team* (right?) a failure when there are still 3 months left in the season though? That's when you deserve the heckling that you're getting right now. And I won't apologize for what I've said until you come to your senses and at least realize that you at least worded your feelings in the wrong way.


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## GoDWade (Jul 25, 2005)

DBurks2818 said:


> Can't do that. It would be different if you titled this topic as something like "We're not doing as well as we should be right now, how can the Heat perform up to expectations?" You know, posting something that looks at least remotely positive. I don't have a problem with fans venting, but at least vent in a meaningful, adult way.
> 
> Calling the season of your *favorite team* (right?) a failure when there are still 3 months left in the season though? That's when you deserve the heckling that you're getting right now. And I won't apologize for what I've said until you come to your senses and at least realize that you at least worded your feelings in the wrong way.



:wait:


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## REEF_DA_CHIEF (Jun 19, 2005)

DBurks2818 said:


> Can't do that. It would be different if you titled this topic as something like "We're not doing as well as we should be right now, how can the Heat perform up to expectations?" You know, posting something that looks at least remotely positive. I don't have a problem with fans venting, but at least vent in a meaningful, adult way.
> 
> Calling the season of your *favorite team* (right?) a failure when there are still 3 months left in the season though? That's when you deserve the heckling that you're getting right now. And I won't apologize for what I've said until you come to your senses and at least realize that you at least worded your feelings in the wrong way.



DBurks, I dont seek your sympathy or that of anyone here. I am man and I can speak how I feel. Who the hell are you for me to want an apology from you. I never addressed you and I dont see why you must put my opinion of the season on your lap. Heckle me all you want, I could give two ratsass about it. Please. Loser


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## REEF_DA_CHIEF (Jun 19, 2005)

Furthermore how can someone word their feelings the wrong way?? Because it doesnt mesh with your thinking makes it wrong. Once again who do you think you are? Please remind us who you are?


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## CyPher3 (Dec 18, 2005)

take a chill-pill man ^^^

This season is far from over..the real Heat Season is just beginning


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## CyPher3 (Dec 18, 2005)

^^specially since usually around this time Shaq decides to stop pacing himself so much


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## REEF_DA_CHIEF (Jun 19, 2005)

Gio305 said:


> i see where you coming from, weve all been trough this with our favorite teams, but damn, not to the point where you just jump in a conclusion about a season that is mid-way and call it a a failure.
> 
> i dont mean to disrespect REEF DA CHEIF, cuz i know he was venting, ive been trough that as well. I just disagree with his thread(season is failure).
> 
> ...


Miami Herald- April 8 2006 
Riley was philosophical Friday about the state of the organization.

''The franchise has been here 18 years, and every year there's been a story,'' he said. ``Sometimes, even when the endings were bad, we were satisfied with them. Even the city and the fans were satisfied. . . . But, quite frankly, right now there's only one ending here. It's either going to be good, or it's going to be bad. I don't think there's going to be any in between here.

``We've built a team here from a business standpoint that's hugely successful -- season tickets, sponsors, [center Shaquille O'Neal], and jerseys. . . . From that standpoint, the business is flourishing. We have two of the best players in the league. So a lot of good things [are] going on.

``But the expectation of winning a championship is all people want to hear about, and that's what I want to hear about.''


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## REEF_DA_CHIEF (Jun 19, 2005)

Finishing strong is important for Miami. It can somehow boost the morale of the players and send a message to our first round opponent.


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

*Bump*

Said I'd do it.


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## PartisanRanger (Oct 24, 2004)

DBurks2818 said:


> *Bump*
> 
> Said I'd do it.


Oh man, this is classic. Reef should be eating some SERIOUS crow right now.


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

ok guys, lets not make it more than what it is. lets celebrate tonight :biggrin: :cheers:


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

DBurks2818 said:


> *Bump*
> 
> Said I'd do it.


Bzza-burn.


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## Dwyane Wade (Oct 12, 2004)

WTChan said:


> Bzza-burn.


ahhhh i got to read all this again lol, i wnat to see what i said then...


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## REEF_DA_CHIEF (Jun 19, 2005)

Miami won man and its celebration time. I dont feel bad at all about you guys bringing this up because i was referring to the regular season amd after a tough dallas loss but i already admitted to being wrong about my thoughts. Lets jut celebrate this win and I'll see you at Irie weekend this friday, sat and sun.


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

REEF_DA_CHIEF said:


> Miami won man and its celebration time. I dont feel bad at all about you guys bringing this up because i was referring to the regular season amd after a tough dallas loss but i already admitted to being wrong about my thoughts. Lets jut celebrate this win and I'll see you at Irie weekend this friday, sat and sun.


I'm just havin' fun, Reef  I know you were upset. 

It's great to see Miami pull it off and make history.


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## SMDre (Jan 28, 2005)

REEF_DA_CHIEF said:


> Miami won man and its celebration time. I dont feel bad at all about you guys bringing this up because i was referring to the regular season amd after a tough dallas loss but i already admitted to being wrong about my thoughts. Lets jut celebrate this win and I'll see you at Irie weekend this friday, sat and sun.


Still find it funny that the Heat turned their season around after their blowout loss to Dallas. That just makes the Championship DVD a lot better.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

GoDWade said:


> you don't win championship in February, but anybody with a basketball IQ saw tonight as ANOTHER example of how far Miami is behind the rest of the elite teams in the league. First of all, let's not even talk about chemistry. Tonight Miami looked STEPS slower than the Mavericks. They got beat on defense multiple times, and the only guy who actually played a real form of defense was Wade, that's it. All others were outrebounded, outjumped, outhustled, giving up penetration, etc.
> 
> secondly, compare and contrast the Heat and the Mavericks and what do you see? The Heat is got bunch of slow, old veterans. JW couldn't even pushed the flow because when he did he was the only one moving forward. Mavericks got jump shooters after jump shooters. Miami has, really, none. Posey can shoot but not good enough to be a threat, as well as Payton and JW. Shaq's defense is a joke and offensively he really doesn't change the game that much anymore, he is no longer automatic. Also, from tonight, Miami had no idea what they were running. There was hardly any offense, while the Mavericks came out knew exactly what to ran in their offense. Furthermore, Walker---he looked like (again) he didn't how to play basketball. You need a sixth man who can energizes the team and push the team for a stretch---he can do neither, and so much for the "point forward': he can't dribble, he sucks at shooting, and as of right now he doesn't fit into the system as he is clueless in how to play team basketball.
> 
> ...





Shaq_Diesel said:


> If the Heat go deep in the playoffs, I'm gonna make you regret this thread so much you might just change fan bases...............oh, and I'll put my guarantee on that.
> 
> Dallas spanked us last year, who cares. We don't match up with them, they're in the West, we're in the East. Why worry about them? Take care of your own business first, you think they worry about Miami over Phoenix/San Antonio/etc.? Hell no...That's looking too far ahead. You gotta understand that before you can start making "season ending" predictions for the Heat.





GoDWade said:


> It's on then, =)
> 
> again, I worry because we keep on getting spanked by those teams---to me we got to beat those *second tier *teams as "taking care of our own business". Again, this season has been the story of us beating okay teams at home, and getting absolutely owned on the road by the good teams. I want to compare the Heat to the rest of the good teams in the league because in theory we are that good. But time and time again we always fell short, REALLY short.
> 
> ...



I'm a man of my word.

Eat crow....please jump off the bandwagon too!

Don't celebrate with us, b/c you don't deserve the satisfaction the rest of us are getting...


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> First off, stop the name calling. It's not allowed and I'm tired of editing people. If it happens again here, I'll get you a little suspension for ignoring my warning.
> 
> It's a fact that this board swings WAY too much over wins/losses. You're all entitled to your opinion, if you think we suck, then that's your thoughts. If you think we're the next dynasty, then that's your opinion. Nobody can say you're right or wrong, and that's what this site is basically all about...
> 
> *but what really pisses me off, and is what everyone is pointing out, is the same people who get so high over big wins, are the ones who throw in the towel after a big loss. But hey, that's fine....some people are real fans, and some of you are bandwagon fans. It's as simple as that. But just remember, when April-May-June rolls around, we'll remember the people who quit on us in February....*


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

This is worse than the OFFICIAL SEASON IS A WASH THREAD on the Bulls board. For shame.


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

man, this thread was like a our own "civil war" in the Heat forum lol


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

Get em, S_D.


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

maybe we should sticky this thread. make it a classic? haha


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## REEF_DA_CHIEF (Jun 19, 2005)

Gio305 said:


> maybe we should sticky this thread. make it a classic? haha


Then it makes me out to be a villain being the author. lol. Truth is my anger over that horrible showing in FEB was less caustic than the arguments fomented within this thread by others.


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## nickrock23 (Mar 28, 2004)

i suggested trading walker for a defender.. who knew!?


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## nickrock23 (Mar 28, 2004)

oh and b ythe way, i had that "pat's back" and we win it all thing in my signature since december!!!


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

nickrock23 said:


> i suggested trading walker for a defender.. who knew!?



this is what walker thinks of your suggestion...


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## UD40 (May 12, 2005)

Gio305 said:


> man, this thread was like a our own "civil war" in the Heat forum lol


Lol, this thread actually led me to making a thread calling out certain posters and questioning if they were really Heat fans or bandwagoners.


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