# One more big move, and were the celtics west...



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Many people were jumping on me on message boards the last few days, saying that even if we did get Baron Davis, its not like it meant that were championship contenders nor even playoff guarantees. Now that the deal is done, pretty much media in most places is saying the same thing. Note ESPN:



> That's not enough to put them ahead of the Lakers in the city or in the West. Not the Spurs or the Hornets or the Jazz or the Suns either. Truth is they'll be hard pressed to beat out the Suns, Rockets and on-the-rise Trail Blazers for a postseason spot. Allen Iverson, Carmelo Anthony and the Denver Nuggets couldn't win a playoff game last season. Davis and the Golden State Warriors couldn't even get in the party. The West is tough like that.
> 
> It's even tougher than when the Clippers played Game 7 of the conference semifinals in Phoenix two years ago. Thanks to an offseason trade for Sam Cassell and the signing of Cuttino Mobley, that team won 47 regular-season games. Last season 47 victories didn't even qualify for the playoffs in the West.


I think we need one more move to put us over the hump, and have legit shot to be celtics west. 

We cant sign and trade anyone due to salary. But we have two big contracts in Thomas and mobley that perhaps someone would want who is trying to clear cap space for 2010 lebron/wade, etc. sweepstakes. 

I still maintain that we should offer mobley, thomas, perhaps a number 1 or 2 to the nets for vince carter and sean williams.

Or the same deal minus the number 1's for ak47. Either of those would be a steal, but were seeing even stranger things now with people trying to clear cap space, and neither of those are as absurd as the memphis pau gasol trade.

Anyone have any other ideas to make us instant championship contenders?


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

well, i've rumblings that michael jordan wants to get rid of gerald wallace in charlotte....

with the elton and davis signings, we can assume that the youth movement is over in clipperland....i think that we should trade thornton + our first round pick or gordon + our first round pick or maybe a ST with maggette for wallace.....maybe even our first rounder + minny's first rounder.....

as long as we don't have to give up both gordon and thornton......


maybe they'd even be willing to take thomas and mobley as expiring contracts for wallace.....


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

a starting lineup of:

pg: baron davis
sg: eric gordon
sf: gerald wallace
pf: elton brand
ce: chris kaman

would be great....i like wallace much better than carter because of his defense.....and wallace is also a better scorer and rebounder than AK47.....


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

charlotte looks like they need a SF and another bigman to replace nazr.....

they would most likely want thornton + 1st rounder.....


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Yes id love to see wallace here, and hes for sure better than thornton, but not really a "star." Hmm..Not sure if id be willing to give up thornton for him, but i like where you are going with this.

This would be doable per real gm:

Trade Thomas, thornton, knight to charlotte
Trade mobley to knicks
recieve felton, wallce, dudley from charlotte, recieve crawford from knicks.

Why clippers do it: Gives them the perfect dunleavvy player at SF for the new lineup. Gives them an excellent, young backup PG. Gets them a new starting SG, someone who could mentor Gordon, while still even able to play PG (Crawford). 

WHy Charlotte does it: thomas contract expires 3 years earlier than wallace. Thornton is cheap, young talent. 

Why knicks do it: Getting mobley allows them to clear more space for lebron in 2010 as opposed to crawford.

Clippers end up with:

Starting 5: Kaman/Brand/Wallace/Crawford/Davis

That lineup there could compete with almost anyone in the nba. good idea boost.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

i would absolutely love to get felton in addition to wallace, but we would be robbing charlotte blind, and i doubt we could pull that off...

felton would be icing on the cake, but i would be perfectly happy with thomas/thornton for wallace....we pick up wallace for thornton, and get to dump thomas' contract in the process....


not sure about crawford though...i like his youth and offense, but he is a chucker....we have enough shooters, and mobley provides good defense that crawford would not be able to replace....mobley is a great "glue" guy....


but i really want wallace on the team......he gets injured a lot, but that's because he goes balls out on every play...he can effectively guard the 1-4 spots and he fills the passing lanes....he gets tons of weakside blocks, and he is one of the best rebounding 3's in the league....he is shooting guard sized, but strong enough to guard 4's....as the first option in charlotte, he was getting 22-24 ppg....he could easily put in 10-13 ppg as the 3rd or 4th option in the clippers lineup.....easily one of the most athletic players in the league.....


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

well something makes me think that jordan has soured on felton. Remember, they drafted augustin. Nbadraft.net (granted i dont like them much, but they said what everyone else was saying) said the following:



> Drafting DJ Augustin likely signals the imminent departure of Bernie Bickerstaff pick Raymond Felton.


Mobley i think is really aging at an alarming rate. WIth wallace on the team, and lets say we do resign ross, i really dont think we need mobley on the team. At times offense is what we lack, and crawford gives us that. Not to mention another clutch player. crawford is one of the most clutch non stars in the league. 

The more i think about it the more i think youre right. Wallace really could be our ray allen, third star on the team. Garnett is brand, pierce is baron, and wallace could be the allen type who doesnt score/do as much as he did when he was the man, but does all the things necessary for the team to win.

Baylor PLEASE CALL UP CHARLOTTE!!!


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## Futurama_Fanatic (Jul 21, 2005)

the celtics have ray allen, paul pierce, and kevin garnett. they are all perennial greats in this league.

let's not get ahead of ourselves. brand, davis, kaman, mobley, and thornton are a good starting unit but lets not get ahead of ourselves.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

yamaneko said:


> well something makes me think that jordan has soured on felton. Remember, they drafted augustin. Nbadraft.net (granted i dont like them much, but they said what everyone else was saying) said the following:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i hope you're right about felton, because like i said, i would love to have him on the clippers....he would be a great backup to baron and with his youth, he could be groomed to be our future pg....


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

I think that we should just re-sign maggette. I do believe that the Clippers are Boston West. Let me explain, assuming Maggette stays.

How much better is Pierce than Maggette? I think that the only thing seperating the two is defense. Maggette (if he stays) will have a LOT of motivation for next year, which seems to be his problem normally is his lack of motivation to be the best he can.

Brand is very underrated, the only thing Garnett has over Brand is passing, otherwise the two are very comparable.

Kaman is way better than anyone else the Celtics have, if he does what he did last year. Ray Allen was an all-star, granted, but last year he really wasn't as good as he normally was.

I think that right now the Clippers only need some healthy depth and to make sure Brand and Maggette get contracts. Hopefully Maggette will give this franchise one last chance, he is a big difference in a 1 and done, and a championship in my opinion.



By the way, I have always been a fan of the Clippers, so if it seems that i'm bandwagoning i'm not, i've been rooting for you guys since the playoffs a few years ago.


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

I think we should just chase Carter. Mobley + Thomas + 2009 Top 3 Protected First + Rights to Sofoklis for Carter + rights to Ryan Anderson. Davis-Carter-Thornton-Brand-Kaman.

If not Carter, I expect us to do the rumored Mobley/Crawford swap, although I won't be a big fan of it.

If not Vince, who else would be a perfect for us at SG that we can realistically acquire? Mike Miller and Mike Redd is all I can think of.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

Futurama_Fanatic said:


> the celtics have ray allen, paul pierce, and kevin garnett. they are all perennial greats in this league.
> 
> let's not get ahead of ourselves. brand, davis, kaman, mobley, and thornton are a good starting unit but lets not get ahead of ourselves.


granted, the clips are not a facsimile of the celts, but the team dynamics would be remarkably similar with a good third player....


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

qross1fan said:


> I think we should just chase Carter. Mobley + Thomas + 2009 Top 3 Protected First + Rights to Sofoklis for Carter + rights to Ryan Anderson. Davis-Carter-Thornton-Brand-Kaman.
> 
> If not Carter, I expect us to do the rumored Mobley/Crawford swap, although I won't be a big fan of it.
> 
> If not Vince, who else would be a perfect for us at SG that we can realistically acquire? Mike Miller and Mike Redd is all I can think of.




forget about carter, we need toughness and defense....carter provides neither....


we should be going after gerald wallace from charlotte....


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

bootstrenf said:


> forget about carter, we need toughness and defense....carter provides neither....
> 
> 
> we should be going after gerald wallace from charlotte....


So we can have two SF's? I'd go JRich before Wallace since JRich will fill the mold of the team better as he can knock down 3's and jam it in.


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## Showtime87 (Jun 27, 2005)

yamaneko said:


> Many people were jumping on me on message boards the last few days, saying that even if we did get Baron Davis, its not like it meant that were championship contenders nor even playoff guarantees. Now that the deal is done, pretty much media in most places is saying the same thing. Note ESPN:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nobody said that the Baron Davis signing would put this team over the top or make them championship contenders. At least I didn't. I just felt it would make them almost a sure thing for the playoffs. It would be nice to add one more major piece, but I don't know if that's very realistic right now. The problem with Mobley and Thomas is that their contracts are good for another two years each. Teams want to acquire *expiring* contracts, they don't want to have to wait two full seasons. It's unrealistic to think that anybody would want either one of these guys right now at their current prices.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

qross1fan said:


> So we can have two SF's? I'd go JRich before Wallace since JRich will fill the mold of the team better as he can knock down 3's and jam it in.


jrich is another chucker who fell in love with the 3 ball....also is not known for his defense.....


the main reason we should be going for wallace is his defense.....the fact that wallace can score 22-24ppg is just icing on the cake....


you seem to think that we need more offense, but look at our team....

baron, elton, al, eric, cat, kaman.....we have enough scorers.....defense win ships and that's what we need more of....

if we can't have wallace, i think AK47 would be my second choice.....AK47 is another player who is a very versatile defender who can rebound and AK is an excellent passer for a 3/4 man....


championship caliber teams are built on a foundation of good defense....


and i don't understand your point about having two SF's....

our starting lineup would be:

pg: baron davis
sg: mobley/gordon : not sure who will start
sf: gerald wallace
pf: elton brand
ce: chris kaman


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## Showtime87 (Jun 27, 2005)

DienerTime said:


> I think that we should just re-sign maggette. I do believe that the Clippers are Boston West. Let me explain, assuming Maggette stays.
> 
> How much better is Pierce than Maggette? I think that the only thing seperating the two is defense. Maggette (if he stays) will have a LOT of motivation for next year, which seems to be his problem normally is his lack of motivation to be the best he can.
> 
> ...


Forget about Maggette, he's gone. That's why this team was able to sign Baron Davis, Maggette is now an afterthought. The Clippers are not the Cetlics west, not even close. But what they are is a hell of a lot better and a serious playoff contender from day one. This team has a chance to be as good, if not better than the team that pushed the Suns to 7 games in '06. That probably means about 50-55 wins in the incredibly tough Western Conference. For me, that's good enough for the moment. Let's see how this year goes, then we can look to unload Mobley and Thomas' expiring contracts after next season. 

Believe me, I love that I can again be excited about this team. I've been following them for many, many years and this is about as good as it gets. But, I'm not going to go overboard and say that they're championship ready at this point.


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

bootstrenf said:


> jrich is another chucker who fell in love with the 3 ball....also is not known for his defense.....
> 
> 
> the main reason we should be going for wallace is his defense.....the fact that wallace can score 22-24ppg is just icing on the cake....
> ...


And just where will Gerald and AK play when we have Al at SF? And we have defense as well with Baron, Elton, Chris and if we are to retain him, then Ross as well.


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## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

We need Arenas to play SG.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

qross1fan said:


> And just where will Gerald and AK play when we have Al at SF? And we have defense as well with Baron, Elton, Chris and if we are to retain him, then Ross as well.


well, it wouldn't be both wallace and kirilenko......it would be one or the other.....

and if we were to acquire either one, we would probably have to give up thornton in a trade......


brand and kaman are good defenders, but davis is so-so.....

ross is a good defender, but his lack of offense negates his defensive impact....


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

bootstrenf said:


> well, it wouldn't be both wallace and kirilenko......it would be one or the other.....
> 
> and if we were to acquire either one, we would probably have to give up thornton in a trade......


I didn't say both, and we wouldn't, because neither would happen. You don't think teams are going to offer something better then a 2nd year player who is just one year younger then Crash? Plus, wheres our depth if we give up Mobley + Thomas + Thornton for AK basically


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## Showtime87 (Jun 27, 2005)

LOL. Man, this team just acquired a great point guard less than 24 hours ago, can't we be satisfied with that for at least a few more days before we try to figure out how to become the Celtics? Seriously, now we're talking Gerald Wallace, Kirilenko, Vince Carter, let's just be happy with what we have right now. Elton Brand is re-signing and Baron Davis coming to LA, I don't know about some of you guys, but that's enough to put a big smile on my face.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

> let's not get ahead of ourselves. brand, davis, kaman, mobley, and thornton are a good starting unit but lets not get ahead of ourselves.


Which is why i said we need another star here to make it complete. I dont think we have to have stars as big as those names, inasmuch as our supporting cast is better than the celtics supporting cast.



> I think that we should just re-sign maggette. I do believe that the Clippers are Boston West. Let me explain, assuming Maggette stays.


Thats impossible. We have to renouce his rights just to sign baron davis. That means we cant go over the cap to resign him. 



> How much better is Pierce than Maggette? I think that the only thing seperating the two is defense.


Um. Are you kidding? Pierce is a bonafied superstar and has been. Maggette not even an all star. 



> Brand is very underrated, the only thing Garnett has over Brand is passing, otherwise the two are very comparable.


Wow. 



> forget about carter, we need toughness and defense....carter provides neither....


yes, but carter gives us starpower. IMagine if we had him on the team. That gives two guys teams would have to guard at the end of the game. We need clutch guys, we need guys who can put up 27 points on any given night. 



> Nobody said that the Baron Davis signing would put this team over the top or make them championship contenders. At least I didn't.


Ive been seeing lots of clipper fans say it on multiple boards.



> The problem with Mobley and Thomas is that their contracts are good for another two years each. Teams want to acquire expiring contracts, they don't want to have to wait two full seasons. It's unrealistic to think that anybody would want either one of these guys right now at their current prices.


Normally that is true. But we have new information. Trades have already been made that give teams the cap space in 2010 which is huge. Nets nor knicks are being coy about their wanting to clear cap space for 2010. Knicks i think would trade for mobley in a heartbeat as it clears out like 10 million dollars for 2010. Nets in a heartbeat as well, IMO, as getting thomas and mobley for carter clears what, 17 million from their cap for 2010? 

If utah wants to have money for 2010, theyd trade ak47 for the aforementioned guys as well, as it would give him about 16 million or so cap space for that year.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Im happy with what we have, and the fact that people are taking paycuts to be here. But that doesnt mean im satisfied with not even being a lock to make the playoffs. I want a championship one day. And brand and davis are just past their primes, NOW is the time to make the big move like the celtics did. 

AK47 would be great. Carter would be great, redd would be great, wallace would be good. Any one of those players added to our team without giving up a core player would be huge. depth in the front court is fine, and with a team like that we can attract other guys for minimum deals like the celtics did, who normally might want more. 

Do i think its likely? No. I dont think were proactive enough to do this. But i thought the same thing about davis. Wre dealing with a different sterling now. Who knows if he still has some tricks up his sleeve.


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## matador1238 (May 3, 2006)

AK47 would fit perfectly. Wallace is another Maggette but with much better defense. I dont think the Bucks want to trade Redd. Carter is last on my list.


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## joser (Nov 29, 2005)

Mobley for Crawford? 


I really don't know who else we can add as far as star power goes. I'm not really a big fan of redd or carter. I think we can only hope for our role players to be better and for our stars to play like superstars. 

I would be more concerned on how is dunleavy going to coach and I hope that DTS invest more on trainers and medical staff to protect his investment.


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## B-Roy (Feb 12, 2008)

The Warriors have offered free agent Elton Brand a five-year deal worth between $85 and $90 million, according to league sources.

Brand, like Baron Davis, opted out of the final year of his contract just before Monday's deadline, giving up a guaranteed $16.4 million for next season. 

At the time, Brand's agent, David Falk, told reporters that the move was designed to create some cap flexibility for the Clippers to add another top-line player.

Can the Clipps match that?


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

Wallace would be good for you guys. Someone with really good defense. Its all about defense.

edit - BRoy, i don't think the Clips can match that, but i don't think Brand will take that offer, so the clips won't have to. Brand wants to take less money just to win. The clips have a good shot at the playoffs now, and from there anything is possible. The warriors, honestly, even with Brand probably would be a 9 or 10 seed.

that is what i think about that bit of news. LOL at GS goin' crazy and offering at everyone in sight.


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## Showtime87 (Jun 27, 2005)

B-Roy said:


> The Warriors have offered free agent Elton Brand a five-year deal worth between $85 and $90 million, according to league sources.
> 
> Brand, like Baron Davis, opted out of the final year of his contract just before Monday's deadline, giving up a guaranteed $16.4 million for next season.
> 
> ...


:lol: Wow, the Warriors are pretty pissed off about Baron leaving for the Clippers. I don't think the Clipps can match 90 million, but they'll give him something in the 70-80 million dollar range which is going to be good enough to keep him in LA. Brand didn't opt out to sign with a Warriors team that just lost their starting PG. He's friends with Davis and the whole point to him opting out was to allow the Clippers enough financial leeway to sign Baron.


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

another player we should be looking at is ron artest....

artest has a tendency to hold the ball and resort to chucking, but brand and davis might be able to keep him in check....


artest might not get nearly as much blocks as wallace, but he would be a superior man up defender....which is much more valuable to team defense....artest aslo has the skills to put in about 15 a night as the third option in the clippers lineup.....


very true that artest is extremely volatile, but like i said, two veteran leaders might be able to keep him in check....and artest always seem to blow up when he was losing....maybe this team will win enough so that won't be a problem.....


with artest, this clippers squad might be the best defensive squad in the league....a couple of years ago, brand and kaman lead the league in froncourt blocks.....brand is top 3 in offensive rebounding, and the overall rebounding from the froncourt of kaman/brand/artest would be excellent.....


pg: baron davis
sg: cuttino mobley
sf: ron artest
pf: elton brand
ce: chris kaman

this squad would destroy a lot of teams....4 out of the 5 starters are excellent man/team defenders.....1-3 can all shoot the 3 ball to spread the floor....every single player can post up......every single player is an excellent rebounder for their position....

the only weakness i see is ballhandling and passing....but since we have baron to handle the rock, that shouldn't hurt us too much....


i would assume that getting artest would require trading thomas/thornton + first round picks......


add in the gordon and jordan, and maybe even a healthy livingston and this team could be really good....


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Artest would definately be an option, not sure though how we would get him. Plus would we put him at SG? 

For those out there who still think were guaranteed playoffs, and we DONT need to make another move, here is another guy, John Hollinger, smarter than i who is saying the same thing as me:



> Assuming Brand stays, they're decent … and that's about it. I'm not sure they're even a playoff team in the West. Seemingly everyone is talking about the 2005-06 Clippers who won 47 games and comparing this bunch to that group, but what about the gang from 2006-07?
> 
> That team had Brand, Maggette, Chris Kaman, Tim Thomas and Cuttino Mobley healthy all year, and it went 40-42. Replace Maggette with Al Thornton, and replace Sam Cassell with Davis, and you basically have the 2008-09 Clippers … except with Mobley halfway to the glue factory and no depth whatsoever. So we're really supposed to buy that they'll rocket into the West's upper crust?
> 
> ...


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## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

yamaneko said:


> Artest would definately be an option, not sure though how we would get him. Plus would we put him at SG?
> 
> For those out there who still think were guaranteed playoffs, and we DONT need to make another move, here is another guy, John Hollinger, smarter than i who is saying the same thing as me:



i think that the davis acquisition made us a competeitve team, but in no way did it guarantee us anything...i agree that we are one major player away from competing with the elite teams....


artest is scheduled to make right around 8 mil this year....tim thomas is is making 5.6 mil, thornton is making 1.7.....

5.6 + 1.7 = 7.3 mil.....

so i think thornton + thomas + our 2009 first rounder would be a very fair trade for a rebuilding team like sac.....i wouldn't mind giving away our 2009 because it's likely that the pick will be a mid-late first round pick anyways.....also, we would still have minny's pick coming to us eventually.....

they get a nice young SF in thornton to replace artest, thomas is still very serviceable, and in a short time he will be a very valuable expiring contract they can use as trade bait.....plus they get an additional 2009 pick to build on.......


so as i see it, artest would be our SF.....

pg: baron davis
sg: cuttino mobley
sf: ron artest
pf: elton brand
ce: chris kaman

bench
pg: brevin knight/mike taylor/livingston
sg: eric gordon/quinton ross
sf: quinton ross/marcus williams
pf: powell/davis
ce: davis/jordan

we need good 3/4 man for depth though.....


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## Showtime87 (Jun 27, 2005)

yamaneko said:


> For those out there who still think were guaranteed playoffs, and we DONT need to make another move, here is another guy, John Hollinger, smarter than i who is saying the same thing as me:


Hollinger loves to bash the Clippers, it seems to be his favorite pastime, so I don't really care what his opinion is. By the way, where does he get "no depth whatsoever" from? Knight, Gordon, Thomas, Powell and Davis are not the best second unit in the league, but certainly far from the worst. I'm not saying this team is guaranteed to win 50 games this year, but I do think they'll be right around that number. This guy is great at predicting gloom and doom, so I take whatever he says with a grain of salt.


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## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

John Hollinger is like Sahadara Inui from Prince of Tennis. Sure he can calculate everything, but he still isn't always right and loses just as often as he wins.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Well depends on how you look at our depth. We have one decent center on the entire roster, and a bunch of scrubs behind him. We have one PF, and then we have Thomas, who i guess can be considered the backup PF. At SF, starting we have a guy who was a reserve for much of the year last year, and the rest of the time, played PF. Behind him, we have........no one yet. At SG we have an unproven rookie, and an aging player...that might actually be our deepest position. At PG we have davis, and then a journeyman guy in knight. 

Granted, were not the least deep team in the league, but that is not depth id be happy about going into the season. I think its possible that we get 47-50 wins this year, no doubt about it. But thats what me and everyone else is saying...47 wins doesnt get you into the playoffs anymore in the west, and 50 wins might get you a one and done....

I like the deal boost gave. But i dont think we need go give a 1st rounder. thornton and thomas is more than enough. Actually if it wasnt for the fact that teams within conference rarely if ever trade with each other id expand that deal.

Thomas, mobley, thornton, for Salmons, mikki, artest.


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