# Mo-Pete or Boozer



## vandyke (Jan 8, 2004)

In articles in todays Globe and Herald, Pierce mentioned these two as players he would like to see the Celtics go out and get, if the AI trade doesn't happen. Obviously they must have asked his opinion on these two otherwise why would he bring their names up, would you have interest in either one and what would you give up to get them?

For Boozer, I was under the impression that he had a long bloated contract but when I took a look he only has 3 years left on that contract which isn't too bad so I think a trade for Wally works straight up.

For Mo-Pete, I would trade Delonte, expiring contract of Brian Grant, Dwayne Jones, and maybe a future draft pick, or 2 2nd round draft picks. But I would be happy to get either player.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

im not really a big mo pete fan...he is all offense and he only looks good when he plays the celtics...but boozer would be awesome on this team...that would be the post prescence that everyone around here really wants...if we cant get A.I. then im all for getting boozer


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## vandyke (Jan 8, 2004)

I would make that Wally and Powe for Boozer otherwise we would have too many PF's on the roster but either way I am all for it. I would be for Mo-Pete also, trust me I love Delonte but Mo Pete is better than Delonte and is a natural SG and not a tweener and would give you 15-17 ppg per night.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> im not really a big mo pete fan...he is all offense and he only looks good when he plays the celtics..


Sorry, but don't speak on players when you have no clue..

All offense? haha, Morris Peterson has been one of the best perimeter defenders in the league for 3-4 years now. 

I'm not the biggest Morris Peterson fan, and criticize him a lot because he is a chucker, but I will never, ever discount what he does on defense. He's so underappreciated it's not even funny. How he hasn't made an all defensive team by now is beyond me.

how does this trade look from a celtics fan perspective:
Morris Peterson, Jose Calderon, Pape Sow
for 
Brian Scalabrine, Gerald Green, Delonte West


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## beantown (Sep 2, 2005)

vigilante said:


> Sorry, but don't speak on players when you have no clue..
> 
> All offense? haha, Morris Peterson has been one of the best perimeter defenders in the league for 3-4 years now.
> 
> ...


No. Maybe, if we get A.I...but I think we can do better.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

vigilante said:


> Sorry, but don't speak on players when you have no clue..
> 
> All offense? haha, Morris Peterson has been one of the best perimeter defenders in the league for 3-4 years now.
> 
> ...



This makes zero sense for the Celtics. Green is not going many places unless it makes us, at least, a much better team.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

Yeah I'd say no way to the trade involving Green and I'm honestly not a big Mo Pete fan, he's ok but he's not a guy that will be your 2nd man........Boozer is on the other hand a big talent and I'd love to have him on the team but I don't think it's going to happen.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

vigilante said:


> Sorry, but don't speak on players when you have no clue..
> 
> All offense? haha, Morris Peterson has been one of the best perimeter defenders in the league for 3-4 years now.
> 
> ...




ahhh yes im sorry...mo pete isnt just all offenes and he is one of the best perimiter defenders in the league...maybe im just using the games he played against the celtics last year as an example...lets look


Game one Mo Pete--16 pts 3 rebounds 0 assists Pierce--26 points 11 rebounds 5 assists

Game two Mo Pete--27 pts 2 rebounds 4 assists Pierce--33 points 7 rebounds 5 assists

Game three Mo Pete--10 pts 5 rebounds 1 assist Pierce-- 32 points 8 rebounds 4 assists

Game four Mo Pete--32 points 8 rebounds 6 assists Pierce 22 points 8 rebounds 2 assists



so yea u have to be right mo pete isnt just offense hes also averaging about 4 rebounds and 2 assists a night against the c's in about 45 minutes a game...and hes definitely one of the "top perimiter defenders in the league" i mean he held pierce to only 29ppg...id love to have a defensive stopper liek that on my team


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> ahhh yes im sorry...mo pete isnt just all offenes and he is one of the best perimiter defenders in the league...maybe im just using the games he played against the celtics last year as an example...lets look
> 
> 
> Game one Mo Pete--16 pts 3 rebounds 0 assists Pierce--26 points 11 rebounds 5 assists
> ...



Link

There's a freaking joke. :biggrin:


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

aquaitious said:


> Link
> 
> There's a freaking joke. :biggrin:





HAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAA...damn i didnt even have to do all that research on the raps-c's game...this would have saved me alot of time if i had thought of it first hahaha




vigilante said:


> Sorry, but don't speak on players when you have no clue..


sorry buddy but u are the one with no clue


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## cgcatsfan (Jun 10, 2005)

Any trade that includes both Green and West better pay us some returns. I don't think Danny is that stupid. I wouldn't touch the suggested trade with a ten foot pole. 
Mo Pete? Wally outscored him, PPG last year. Wally has better FG and FT percentage. Rebounding is close. They're the same age. I can't see the advantage. 

Wally outscored Boozer so far. Boozer rebounds better and is also younger. Of the two, I'd take him. 
But Wally staying is okay with me too.


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## frank_white (Apr 20, 2005)

aquaitious said:


> Link
> 
> There's a freaking joke. :biggrin:


Maybe have another look and see who was actually playing sg for us, homeboy: Jalen Rose. Jalen played 43 minutes, and MO only 29 (I don't even know if he was in the 4th quarter when Kobe started to really catch fire) 

As a raptors fan, there's nothing on the Celtics I really would want. I'm not a big Green fan. I see him being another high school bust like Jefferson.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Filler and picks for Mo. Wally for Boozer. Voila!


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

I GUESS that Utah will try to land Al Jefferson in a trade for Boozer... Maybe Al+Veal+Wally for Giricek and Boozer? It's just a thought, I don't know if it really worth it... It depends on whether Al Jefferson can develop.

And about Peterson, Raps really like him... He has been with them for a long time. I guess that they'll take a Wally for MoPete and Alvin Williams (maybe adding a 2nd rounder too)...


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

frank_white said:


> Maybe have another look and see who was actually playing sg for us, homeboy: Jalen Rose. Jalen played 43 minutes, and MO only 29 (I don't even know if he was in the 4th quarter when Kobe started to really catch fire)
> 
> As a raptors fan, there's nothing on the Celtics I really would want. I'm not a big Green fan. I see him being another high school bust like Jefferson.


The first half of your post was correct.

But the 2nd half was just idiotic. How is Jefferson a bust after 2 years, and after a promising rookie season and injury filled 2nd season? And on Green being a bust :rofl:


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## KingHandles (Mar 19, 2005)

I don't want either of them. I don't see either of them improving us, and I don't want to give up anyone we have for either of them.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

KingHandles said:


> I don't want either of them. I don't see either of them improving us, and I don't want to give up anyone we have for either of them.


I believe that Boozer improves this team, but are his salary and the price (risk of losing Al Jefferson, for example) worth it?


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## nwt (Apr 24, 2005)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> ahhh yes im sorry...mo pete isnt just all offenes and he is one of the best perimiter defenders in the league...maybe im just using the games he played against the celtics last year as an example...lets look
> 
> 
> Game one Mo Pete--16 pts 3 rebounds 0 assists Pierce--26 points 11 rebounds 5 assists
> ...



I don't see your point 
Gerald Green is all offence and the Celtics fans treat him like God
Mo Pete is one of the best perimeter defenders in the league - you can't judge him on the games you've seen against the Celtics, just like I can't judge Gerald on the games I've seen him play against us and by reading the boxscores of Celtics games
The numbers don't show everything, and in those 4 games, Paul must've seen something other than offence to want him on the Celtics, over all the other players he could choose from and who he's played against, riiiiight?
Pierce averaged 5 TO's a game against the Raptors when matched up with Mo Pete, so don't just look at the points scored

And by the way, 'one of the best *perimeter* defenders in the league', you don't need to show the rebounding numbers







Anyways back to the topic, I guess Mo Pete could be moved to Boston (everyone knows Colangelo will pull the trigger if there's a deal that improves the team), but I don't see anything happening because Mo Pete is such an asset to the Raptors team
Anythings possible though​


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

A deal that improves the team...like TJ Ford for Charlie Villanueva? Brilliance.

Anyway, I don't think Paul Pierce has much of a future as a GM if he wants Mo Pete. He wouldn't be worth the effort.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Technically, Pierce is tampering, however I doubt the league will do anything about it, other than issuing a warning [see: Will Perdue on Tim Duncan and Grant Hill].


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## nwt (Apr 24, 2005)

agoo101284 said:


> A deal that improves the team...like TJ Ford for Charlie Villanueva?



Pat youself on the back for figuring that one out

For the other Boston posters - sorry for being such a troll​


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> Game one Mo Pete--16 pts 3 rebounds 0 assists Pierce--26 points 11 rebounds 5 assists
> 
> Game two Mo Pete--27 pts 2 rebounds 4 assists Pierce--33 points 7 rebounds 5 assists
> 
> ...


You trying to tell me that Morris Peterson cannot play defense based on 4 games just shows how clueless you really are, lol. End of story. 

Try again, because you failed.. horribly.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

vigilante said:


> You trying to tell me that Morris Peterson cannot play defense based on 4 games just shows how clueless you really are, lol. End of story.


I agree that four games is a poor sample size, however you have yet to factually explain _how_ Morris Peterson has been "one of the best perimeter defenders in the league" for multiple seasons ; resorting to personal attacks instead. By responding to a supposedly weak [or "clueless"] argument in that manner, you are putting forth an even weaker argument with no factual support.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Premier said:


> I agree that four games is a poor sample size, however you have yet to factually explain _how_ Morris Peterson has been "one of the best perimeter defenders in the league" for multiple seasons ; resorting to personal attacks instead. By responding to a supposedly weak [or "clueless"] argument in that manner, you are putting forth an even weaker argument with no factual support.


He was not the only one personally attacking, 90% of the posts in this thread seem that way.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Premier said:


> I agree that four games is a poor sample size, however you have yet to factually explain _how_ Morris Peterson has been "one of the best perimeter defenders in the league" for multiple seasons ; resorting to personal attacks instead. By responding to a supposedly weak [or "clueless"] argument in that manner, you are putting forth an even weaker argument with no factual support.


What useful stats are there to measure a players defensive stature?

There are none.

Ask any Raptor fan who our best defensive player is, and who has been for the past three seasons. Every single fan will reply with Morris Peterson, and it's not even close. If Mo wasn't a top notch defender, he wouldn't be starting - even on the Raptors. Trust me. His offensive game is nothing to write home about. It's his defense that makes him a valuable assett.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

vigilante said:


> What useful stats are there to measure a players defensive stature?
> 
> There are none.


Adjusted defensive plus/minus, though it is greatly flawed, in my opinion, noting the standard error. Defense is subjective, yes, however your claim that Morris Peterson is one of the best perimeter defenders in the league seems to involve no logic.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

vigilante said:


> Ask any Raptor fan who our best defensive player is, and who has been for the past three seasons. Every single fan will reply with Morris Peterson, and it's not even close. If Mo wasn't a top notch defender, he wouldn't be starting - even on the Raptors. Trust me. His offensive game is nothing to write home about. It's his defense that makes him a valuable assett.


You are greatly confusing being the best defender on the Raptors with being one of the best defenders in the NBA. I have no doubts that he was the Raptors best defender. As for the NBA, not even close.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

cpawfan said:


> You are greatly confusing being the best defender on the Raptors with being one of the best defenders in the NBA. I have no doubts that he was the Raptors best defender. As for the NBA, not even close.


One of the best _perimeter_ defenders in the league.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

vigilante said:


> One of the best _perimeter_ defenders in the league.


Why?


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

vigilante said:


> One of the best _perimeter_ defenders in the league.




please dont make me go and get the box score in all 82 games to show how the opposing 2 guard torched mopete...he is not one of the best perimiter defenders in the nba...bruce bowen is...tayshaun is...artest is...mopete is not even close...best on the raptors?? ok ill give u that...best in the nba...ha

hows this...if u really think hes one of the best in the league please rank your top 10 or 15 in order and put mopete in there where u think he belongs


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

agoo101284 said:


> Why?


Night in night out he defends the opposing teams best player, and does a good job of it. Always puts 100% effort, and you can tell he takes pride in shutting down a player. He is not afraid to throw his body around to stop his opponent, and is one of the better players in the league at drawing charges. Last year he came into the season with a much more cut physique, which helped his quickness and endurance even more. 



> please dont make me go and get the box score in all 82 games to show how the opposing 2 guard torched mopete...he is not one of the best perimiter defenders in the nba...bruce bowen is...tayshaun is...artest is...mopete is not even close...best on the raptors?? ok ill give u that...best in the nba...ha


Go get the box scores of all 82 raptor games and show me what their best perimeter player did. Please, I'd love that.

Who said he was the best in the NBA? Because it sure as hell wasn't me.



> hows this...if u really think hes one of the best in the league please rank your top 10 or 15 in order and put mopete in there where u think he belongs


Top 10 Perimeter Defenders, IMO. off the top of my head.

1. Ron Artest
2. Bruce Bowen
3. Shawn Marion
4. Tayshaun Prince
5. Andrei Kirilenko
6. Raja Bell
7. Morris Peterson
8. Gerald Wallace
9. Shane Battier
10. Andre Iguodala

One of the best.. Doesn't look out of place.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

If he "defends the opposing teams best player," as you said, "night in and night out," why was he not defending Kobe's 81? Why was he getting smoked by Pierce?

Here are a few other numbers by the opposing teams best player in Raptor games:
LeBron James - 27 (11/7)
Allen Iverson - 34 (11/15)
Allen Iverson - 42 (11/16)
Dwayne Wade - 34 (11/25)
Tracy McGrady - 34 (1/6)
Vince Carter - 42 (1/8)
Kobe Bryant - 81 (1/22)
Carmelo Anthony - 37 (1/23)

I could go on, but that seemed like enough. I admit, he played well in December, but that might be about it. I like the 64 ppg he gave up on consecutive nights, though, as you said, Jalen Rose was guarding Kobe in the 81 point night. I guess MoPete isn't guarding the best player every game, eh?


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

frank_white said:


> Maybe have another look and see who was actually playing sg for us, homeboy: Jalen Rose. Jalen played 43 minutes, and MO only 29 (I don't even know if he was in the 4th quarter when Kobe started to really catch fire)
> 
> .


Morris Peterson played 17 out of 24 minutes in the second half, including 10 in the fourth quarter. That means he played roughly 11 minutes in the first half, when Bryant _only scored _26 points. 



NBA Recap said:


> "He played great tonight," said Raptors guard Morris Peterson, who guarded Bryant most of the game. "I never seen anything like that. Take nothing away from that performance tonight. He showed why he's one of the premier players of this league. Once a guy like him gets going, gets into a rhythm, it's going to be a long night. It was a long night for us tonight. You really can't say much."
> 
> Peterson said he wasn't bothered by the fact that Bryant shot even though the game was decided in the final minutes. "I know if I was that hot, I'd keep shooting," Peterson said. "It wasn't disrespectful to me. I wasn't thinking about (it). I was just trying to win the game."





vigilante said:


> 1. Ron Artest
> 2. Bruce Bowen
> 3. Shawn Marion
> 4. Tayshaun Prince
> ...


Andrei Kirilenko? He is more of a post defender. I would put my list more like this;



Ron Artest
Bruce Bowen
Tayshaun Prince
Shawn Marion (although he does defend bigger guys a bit)
Josh Howard
Raja Bell
Shane Battier
Andre Iguodala
Jason Kidd
Gerald Wallace
Then there are guys like Adrian Griffin, James Posey, Kobe Bryant, Kirk Hinrich and possibly even Trenton Hassell as people who I could justify ranking over Morris Peterson.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

I would be really surprised if Boston got MoP.

He's too important to the Raps right now.


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## nwt (Apr 24, 2005)

shookem said:


> I would be really surprised if Boston got MoP.
> 
> He's too important to the Raps right now.



And I don't think there's anyone the Raptors would want of the C's as of right now

smh @ people pulling out numbers and researching ****










This thread is begging for a lock


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

nwt said:


> smh @ people pulling out numbers and researching ****


Yeah. Logical arguments are _so _stupid.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

> Josh Howard


Thats why I dont think using just a few games is a good argument. Josh Howard is definitely a good defender but Kobe scored 62 on him in 3 quarters. Dwyane Wade had no trouble in the Finals. Thats just what great scorers do, they score on great defenders.

I dont think anybody can really hold down Wade or Bryant.


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## nwt (Apr 24, 2005)

Premier said:


> Yeah. Logical arguments are _so_ stupid.


No, going in depth and **** like this



#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> please dont make me go and get the box score in all 82 games to show how the opposing 2 guard torched mopete...


and taking the time to pull out numbers, even though you don't see him play night in and night out and are looking at the box score only, even when even the dumbest person knows the box score isn't everything, to help futher validate your arguements doesn't really make sense

Damn, I could pull out random numbers of other players and the players they've defended and come to a conclusion about those players, but it's not actually true untill I see them play night in and night out

:whoknows:​


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

nwt said:


> and taking the time to pull out numbers, even though you don't see him play night in and night out and are looking at the box score only, even when even the dumbest person knows the box score isn't everything, to help futher validate your arguements doesn't really make sense
> 
> Damn, I could pull out random numbers of other players and the players they've defended and come to a conclusion about those players, but it's not actually true untill I see them play night in and night out.


The fundamental problem with this argument is that _your_ own personal [subjective] opinion about the defense of a certain player cannot be standardised, so it is never factual. Statistics are factual. Claiming that a certain player is a good defender is _your_ opinion, so it is natural for someone to use facts [albeit very flawed facts] to counter. I can state that Michael Redd is a good defender, using the argument that I watch him play "night in and night out." Why is my opinion wrong?


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## nwt (Apr 24, 2005)

Premier said:


> The fundamental problem with this argument is that _your_ own personal [subjective] opinion about the defense of a certain player cannot be standardised, so it is never factual. Statistics are factual. Claiming that a certain player is a good defender is _your_ opinion, so it is natural for someone to use facts [albeit very flawed facts] to counter. I can state that Michael Redd is a good defender, using the argument that I watch him play "night in and night out." Why is my opinion wrong?



I'm not even going to reply because you confused me :laugh: 

But I guess this is a reply so.. :|​


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

nwt said:


> And I don't think there's anyone the Raptors would want of the C's as of right now
> 
> smh @ people pulling out numbers and researching ****
> 
> ...




are you _really_ laughing at people for researching stats to help their arguements???..sorry i think that approach is much better than your guys' arguement which basically comes down to "well...well...hes one of the best defenders because i said so...i dont care if the box scores of ever game show the opposing wing player scoring 40 a night"


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Premier said:


> The fundamental problem with this argument is that _your_ own personal [subjective] opinion about the defense of a certain player cannot be standardised, so it is never factual. Statistics are factual. Claiming that a certain player is a good defender is _your_ opinion, so it is natural for someone to use facts [albeit very flawed facts] to counter. I can state that Michael Redd is a good defender, using the argument that I watch him play "night in and night out." Why is my opinion wrong?



I'm not offering this as proof of MoP being a good defender but just to show that there are other people who also think MoP is a good defender:


> While enjoying some early success in his professional career, Peterson's production faced a steady decline, before stepping up in the wake of the new era of Raptor youngsters being ushered in, taking on a more expansive leadership role and *transforming himself into an elite perimeter defender* and consistent scorer. He is known for his three-point shooting and his acrobatic shots.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Peterson 



> Oh, and did I mention he’s the teams best defender? In the Eastern Conference alone, he sees an endless parade of the league’s top scorers and slashers. (Think LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Allen Iverson, Paul Pierce, Gilbert Arenas.)
> 
> He’s an even better teammate. I’ve seen lots of examples (how he puts a protective arm around certain individuals when they’ve encountered the wrath of Sam Mitchell during a time out; how he teases the new guys to keep them loose) but my favourite is the night that Peterson scored a season-high 31 points against Cleveland, arguably his best game of the season.
> 
> ...


http://www.nba.com/raptors/raptorcom/wick_060327.html 

Not that any of those prove anything, other than you can find something on the internet to back-up your opinon no matter what you think.

IMO, MoP is a competent defender, not elite. The Raptors are an incompetent defensive team making his decent play look better then it is.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

shookem said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Peterson


Wikipedia is a user-based encyclopedia. I can edit Wally Szczerbiak's page to say that he is a good defender. Would I be right? No.




> http://www.nba.com/raptors/raptorcom/wick_060327.html


That article states that Peterson is the best defender on the Raptors, in the writers opinion. It states that Peterson defends the best wing-player on the opposing team.



> Not that any of those prove anything, other than you can find something on the internet to back-up your opinon no matter what you think.


Okay.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

> Oh, and did I mention he’s the teams best defender?



i agree...he is THE TEAMS best defender


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## nwt (Apr 24, 2005)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> are you _really_ laughing at people for researching stats to help their arguements???..sorry i think that approach is much better than your guys' arguement which basically comes down to "well...well...hes one of the best defenders because i said so...i dont care if the box scores of ever game show the opposing wing player scoring 40 a night"



Thanks for the input there 




:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:​


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

nwt said:


> And I don't think there's anyone the Raptors would want of the C's as of right now
> 
> smh @ people pulling out numbers and researching ****
> 
> ...


Did I miss something and the Raptors got 12 all-stars that are better than Pierce?

Or did they get 12 players that are better (and have more potential) than West, Gomes, Perkins, Telfair, Jefferson and Green?


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## cgcatsfan (Jun 10, 2005)

nwt said:


> I'm not even going to reply because you confused me :laugh:
> 
> But I guess this is a reply so.. :|​


NEVER challenge the power of statistics to Premier.....them's fighting words. :biggrin: 
When it comes to hoop stats.....

:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

:king: Premier is king.


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## nwt (Apr 24, 2005)

nwt said:


> And I don't think there's anyone the Raptors would want of the C's as of right now





aquaitious said:


> Did I miss something and the Raptors got 12 all-stars that are better than Pierce?


I could flip this around also, couldn't I, with Bosh​



aquaitious said:


> Or did they get 12 players that are better (and have more potential) than West, Gomes, Perkins, Telfair, Jefferson and Green?




Ford, Bargs, Graham, Parker - West, Gomes, Telfair, Green
Both teams are full of potential

I don't see what's so special about Perkins and Jefferson so I'm not including them :laugh: :laugh: 

Bosh is only 22 as well, so please stop

The way Colangelo is doing things, of course we're excited, just like the Boston fans are excited about the young players they have (some that you mentioned), so aruging isn't going to solve anything​


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

aquaitious said:


> Did I miss something and the Raptors got 12 all-stars that are better than Pierce?
> 
> Or did they get 12 players that are better (and have more potential) than West, Gomes, Perkins, Telfair, Jefferson and Green?


I was wondering that myself, I mean no offense to Raptors fans they are obviously trying to improve under Collangelo but ah I don't see a top team in the East at this point and they only have a few good peices at the moment so why knock on us and our young guys and all-star.....we are no worse than the Raps and probably better at this point.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

vigilante said:


> One of the best _perimeter_ defenders in the league.


Not even close. I'll give you top 30.

Again, you are confusing the fact that he has to guard the other team's best perimeter player with doing a good job of it.


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## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

agoo101284 said:


> A deal that improves the team...like TJ Ford for Charlie Villanueva? Brilliance.
> 
> Anyway, I don't think Paul Pierce has much of a future as a GM if he wants Mo Pete. He wouldn't be worth the effort.


Yea and when TJ Ford plays good next year your gonna feel like an fool (idiot). Whatever man.


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## nwt (Apr 24, 2005)

arcade_rida said:


> Yea and when TJ Ford plays good next year your gonna feel like an *idoit.*



:biggrin:​


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

agoo101284 said:


> If he "defends the opposing teams best player," as you said, "night in and night out," why was he not defending Kobe's 81? Why was he getting smoked by Pierce?
> 
> Here are a few other numbers by the opposing teams best player in Raptor games:
> LeBron James - 27 (11/7)
> ...


Can LeBron James be stopped by anyone? Nope.

Can Allen Iverson be stopped by anyone? Nope.

Can Dwyane Wade be stopped by anyone? Nope.

Can Tracy McGrady be stopped by anyone? Nope.

Can Kobe Bryant be stopped by anyone? Nope.

Can Vince Carter be stopped by anyone? Nope.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

cpawfan said:


> Not even close. I'll give you top 30.
> 
> Again, you are confusing the fact that he has to guard the other team's best perimeter player with doing a good job of it.


Your opinion. 

It's not like I'm bias. I don't like Morris that much, because of his chucking and inconsistent offensive game. But his defense is stellar and he has kept us in many games with it. Say what you want about Morris, but never take away his defensive stature.

And trust me, I've seen Jalen Rose, Vince Carter, Joey Graham, Eric Williams, ect ect defend the opposing teams best perimeter defender and done terrible jobs in comparison with Morris Peterson. The Raps haven't had such a good perimeter defender since Doug Christie.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

vigilante said:


> Can LeBron James be stopped by anyone? Nope.
> 
> Can Allen Iverson be stopped by anyone? Nope.
> 
> ...







ooooooooooooooo ok i get what your saying now...hes only one of the top perimiter defenders in the league when he plays scrub opposition...he cant guard the top dozen or so wing players in the league...so the next time i have a team and my starting 2guard is jarvis hayes then ill be happy to have a top notch defender in morris peterson guarding him


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

vigilante said:


> Your opinion.
> 
> It's not like I'm bias. I don't like Morris that much, because of his chucking and inconsistent offensive game. But his defense is stellar and he has kept us in many games with it. Say what you want about Morris, but never take away his defensive stature.
> 
> And trust me, I've seen *Jalen Rose, Vince Carter, Joey Graham, Eric Williams*, ect ect defend the opposing teams best perimeter defender and done terrible jobs in comparison with Morris Peterson. The Raps haven't had such a good perimeter defender since Doug Christie.


I hardly consider being better than the bolded folks a ringing endorsement.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

arcade_rida said:


> Yea and when TJ Ford plays good next year your gonna feel like an fool (idiot). Whatever man.


And when Charlie puts up more than the 13 and 6 he did last year and starts in the playoffs along side Andrew Bogut far into the future, you're going to wish that he was next to Bosh. Particularly when you consider that you don't trade big for small and the little guy in question is a subpar defender and has a poor jumper.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

vigilante said:


> Can LeBron James be stopped by anyone? Nope.
> 
> Can Allen Iverson be stopped by anyone? Nope.
> 
> ...


So long as you're enquiring:
Ben Gordon - 24 on 4/19
Peja Stojakovic - 27 on 4/17
Jumaine Jones - 19 on 4/9
Peja Stojakovic - 25 on 4/5
A combo of Tim Thomas and James Jones - 30 (41 min) on 3/31
Dwayne Wade - 37 on 3/29
Michael Redd - 35 on 3/26
John Salmons - 23 on 3/14
LeBron James - 35 on 3/8
Vince Carter - 31 on 3/4
Joe Johnson - 26 on 3/1
Dwayne Wade - 32 on 2/27
Jerry Stackhouse - 22 on 2/25
Michael Finely - 23 on 2/8
Cuttino Mobley - 20 on 2/5
Gilbert Arenas - 35 on 2/1
Michael Bibby - 42 on 1/29

There's more for sure, but I'll let you process that. Also, its tough to stop the first guys I mentioned (and John Salmons, among others), but you can still keep them below their average. That's what good defenders would do.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

> Can Allen Iverson be stopped by anyone? Nope.


WALTAH!


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## nwt (Apr 24, 2005)

agoo101284 said:


> So long as you're enquiring:
> Ben Gordon - 24 on 4/19
> Peja Stojakovic - 27 on 4/17
> Jumaine Jones - 19 on 4/9
> ...


Using the first because I have other things to do then look up numbers

Ben Gordon - 24 on 4/19
Peja Stojakovic - 27 on 4/17

Sure you could pull out the scoring numbers, but I can come back with numbers also that you didn't show, like how in April Gordon averaged 54% from beyond the arc that month and shot 16% from beyond the arc against the Raptors that game

I'm sure you can look at all the other 81 games and formulate your own idea about what happened, because you seem to love pulling up numbers and using them as an arguement about defence, but how many of these did you see? You do know defence isn't just preventing scoring, it's also creating TO's, preventing the player from passing, getting the player trapped, etc..., but I'm sure you know that already.


So long as you're enquiring: 
What about all the other games you DIDN'T post? Why are you using select games, and only the points scored? Did you see any of these games? Do all defenders hold their opponents below their PPG average for all 82 games? Do you even know if Mo and the opponent played the same minutes?​


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

Raptor fans should give up trying to say that Morris Peterson is good at anything on any other board than the Raptors board. Take a look at people telling me that Manu is the superior perimeter defender.

Fans outside of Toronto simply do not see any Raptors games, and perimeter defense is not something that can be quantified with statistics. Especially since the Raptors played a lot of zone at really strange times this past season.

Let's just keep MoPete and be happy with what he brings. Let the Celtics tout the virtues of young Mr. Green and Ankles Jefferson.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> ooooooooooooooo ok i get what your saying now...hes only one of the top perimiter defenders in the league when he plays scrub opposition...he cant guard the top dozen or so wing players in the league...so the next time i have a team and my starting 2guard is jarvis hayes then ill be happy to have a top notch defender in morris peterson guarding him


He can't stop the top dozen or so wing players in the league is what I said. Stop rambling on about nothing.



> I hardly consider being better than the bolded folks a ringing endorsement.


lol, I expected you to say that, which is true. But what I'm trying to say is that he is far better than all those guys - even when Vince Carter put his effort in. 



> And when Charlie puts up more than the 13 and 6 he did last year and starts in the playoffs along side Andrew Bogut far into the future, you're going to wish that he was next to Bosh. Particularly when you consider that you don't trade big for small and the little guy in question is a subpar defender and has a poor jumper.


Someone sounds a little bitter - I don't know why, though.

And you definately DO trade big for small when the big plays the same position as your best player, and the small fills your biggest weakness. It's not like one player is far better than the other - they are both solid right now, with the potential to be stars. Both are now in better situations to reach that potential.



> So long as you're enquiring:
> Ben Gordon - 24 on 4/19
> Peja Stojakovic - 27 on 4/17
> Jumaine Jones - 19 on 4/9
> ...


Can Ben Gordon be stopped by anyone? Nope.

Can Jumaine Jones be stopped by anyone? Nope.

.... Just kidding.

Anyways lets use your genius logic with Artest - who is undoubtedly the best perimeter defender in the game:

Ray Allen - 26 on Apr 18th
Shawn Marion - 23 on Apr 11th
Victor Khyrapa - 18 on Mar 29th
Caron Butler - 23 on Mar 28th
Peja Stojakovic - 20 on Mar 17th
Marquis Daniels - 19 on Mar 12th
Michael Redd - 32, Bobby Simmons - 21 on Mar 8th
Antawn Jamison - 31 , Caron Butler - 22 on Mar 5th
Al Harrington - 23 on Mar 3rd
Kobe Bryant - 36 on Feb 23rd
Morris Peterson - 23 on Jan 29th

OH, I could go on.. As you can see Artest isn't a good defender, because how many points get scored on you determines how good of a defender you are.. DUH.


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## nwt (Apr 24, 2005)

Someone repped me saying I had good posts in this thread (even though they don't agree with them all), so I'm repping everyone in this thread to get you back! lol​


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

nwt said:


> I could flip this around also, couldn't I, with Bosh


Sure you could, but I nobody ever said that "there's nothing we need from Toronto."




nwt said:


> Ford, Bargs, Graham, Parker - West, Gomes, Telfair, Green
> Both teams are full of potential
> 
> *I don't see what's so special about Perkins* and Jefferson so I'm not including them :laugh: :laugh:


Perkins = the next Shaq. (I love the guy, but actually he's a pretty good defensive Center, especially for someone that came out of high school just a few years ago.)



> Bosh is only 22 as well, so please stop
> 
> The way Colangelo is doing things, of course we're excited, just like the Boston fans are excited about the young players they have (some that you mentioned), so aruging isn't going to solve anything


Both teams are young and inexperienced, but I don't see either team going into next year and ripping apart the league. Trust me, there's something the Celtics have that the Raptors could use and vice versa.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

vigilante said:


> Top 10 Perimeter Defenders, IMO. off the top of my head.
> 
> 1. Ron Artest
> 2. Bruce Bowen
> ...


Where is Ruben "Kobe Stopper" Patterson? :biggrin:


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

vigilante said:


> Ray Allen - 26 on Apr 18th
> Shawn Marion - 23 on Apr 11th
> * Victor Khyrapa - 18 on Mar 29th*
> Caron Butler - 23 on Mar 28th
> ...


I can't say I watched all those games, but I bolded the ones I'm questionable on.

Do you expect Artest to guard both Redd _and _Simmons or both Jamison _and _Butler? Jeez, if your dissapointed with a performance because he didn't stop two guys..

And with Marquis Daniels and Viktor Khyrapa, was Artest really guarding them? Wouldn't you think Artest was guarding Dirk against Dallas and someone else in Portland (possibly Miles, but I don't know). But for especially the Daniels one, Artest did not guard him.

Oh, could you please go on..


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Tersk said:


> I can't say I watched all those games, but I bolded the ones I'm questionable on.
> 
> Do you expect Artest to guard both Redd _and _Simmons or both Jamison _and _Butler? Jeez, if your dissapointed with a performance because he didn't stop two guys..


Well, I'm just saying that both of them went off, so he didn't stop either. I'm just following agoo's _brilliant_ idea of finding out how good a player is defensively.



> And with Marquis Daniels and Viktor Khyrapa, was Artest really guarding them? Wouldn't you think Artest was guarding Dirk against Dallas and someone else in Portland (possibly Miles, but I don't know). But for especially the Daniels one, Artest did not guard him.


Was Morris Peterson guarding every player agoo listed? Hell no. Part of the reason why it's not reliable to go by when judging a defensive player.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

edit; delete this post. I thought I had a good argument but I missed the second list agoo had. Sorry.


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## frank_white (Apr 20, 2005)

DWest Superstar said:


> The first half of your post was correct.
> 
> But the 2nd half was just idiotic. How is Jefferson a bust after 2 years, and after a promising rookie season and injury filled 2nd season? And on Green being a bust :rofl:


Neither Jefferson or Green have proven anything in the NBA. Jefferson wasn't injured this summer (infact, the summerleague was supposed to be the stage for the "New Al Jefferson"), and the guy stuck up the joint. Second year players are expected to dominate sumer league, but Jefferson came off looking like a scrub. 

The Celtics are slowly turning into the Blazers of the East with all their highschool busts and petty criminals. It's only fitting they passed on Foye and grabbed another overrated unproven talent in Telfair.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

This entire idea is a freaking joke. Pierce said he thought those players would be easy to acquire.

So it's going to be easy to acquire the Raptors best perimeter defender and one of their most important shooters in Mo Pete that makes a paltry 5 million in the last year of his deal?

Do you guys have a trade exception? Because I'll take a vat of sweaty rags for him.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

frank_white said:


> Neither Jefferson or Green have proven anything in the NBA. Jefferson wasn't injured this summer (infact, the summerleague was supposed to be the stage for the "New Al Jefferson"), and the guy stuck up the joint. Second year players are expected to dominate sumer league, but Jefferson came off looking like a scrub.
> 
> The Celtics are slowly turning into the Blazers of the East with all their highschool busts and petty criminals. It's only fitting they passed on Foye and grabbed another overrated unproven talent in Telfair.


I would just love to hear who you think are "criminals" on the Celtics? Sorry Charlie. Only Tony Allen has been in any trouble and he's honestly not a big part of the team at this point anyway and the most likely young guy to get traded. Don't make totally unbased comments.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

vigilante said:


> Was Morris Peterson guarding every player agoo listed? Hell no. Part of the reason why it's not reliable to go by when judging a defensive player.




you are the one that said he was a top nba defender and top nba defenders ALWAYS guard the oppositions best player, i mean...unless hes not a top nba defender then he wouldnt be guarding kobe or tmac etc...but u know for sure that artest wast guarding friggin victor khyrapa or marquis daniels so that arguement is ridiculous


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

whiterhino said:


> I would just love to hear who you think are "criminals" on the Celtics? Sorry Charlie. Only Tony Allen has been in any trouble and he's honestly not a big part of the team at this point anyway and the most likely young guy to get traded. Don't make totally unbased comments.


Telfair had a gun bust last year. Calling the Celtics the Blazers of the east is an idiotic overstatement though.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

frank_white said:


> Neither Jefferson or Green have proven anything in the NBA. Jefferson wasn't injured this summer (infact, the summerleague was supposed to be the stage for the "New Al Jefferson"), and the guy stuck up the joint. Second year players are expected to dominate sumer league, but Jefferson came off looking like a scrub.
> 
> The Celtics are slowly turning into the Blazers of the East with all their highschool busts and petty criminals. It's only fitting they passed on Foye and grabbed another overrated unproven talent in Telfair.


WOW, Gerald Green played in like 20 games last year, of courde he has not proven himself yet. I bet if the Raptors had drafted him you would be saying all the same things about him as I and the rest of Celtics fans are. That is an easy argument to make when the kid plays in the NBDL all year and see very little action, in the NBA but come on. On Jefferson, it is summer league!

Here is a list of the 2003 All First team from the Summer League.

2003 All-League First Team: John Salmons MVP (Philly), Kedrick Brown (Boston), Brandon Hunter (Boston), Devin Brown (San Antonio) and Donny Marshall (New Jersey)

I know you love all these guys as players more than Jefferson because they tore up the summer league, and your logic of having to play well there translating to a good NBA player makes a lot of sense.

And one last thing your logic is still king of off being that all played very well in the summer league. Look at his stats 9.4ppg 7.4 rpg .8bpg in 20mpg. So your argument is very falwed.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

frank_white said:


> Neither Jefferson or Green have proven anything in the NBA. Jefferson wasn't injured this summer (infact, the summerleague was supposed to be the stage for the "New Al Jefferson"), and the guy stuck up the joint. Second year players are expected to dominate sumer league, but Jefferson came off looking like a scrub.


8 points 5 rebounds and shooting 50% from the floor in his second year (Jefferson) out of high school in just 18 minutes seems like pretty good to me.

The fact that Green even got a chance to play, after we've had Davis, Pierce (and Wally) (each playing an average of 40 minutes at the 2/3) is a pretty big accomplishment to me. 

Portland did a great job with J. O'Neal as far as giving up on a guy is concerned.


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## nwt (Apr 24, 2005)

This thread is never gonna end
As far as I'm concerned, my new goal is to help get this thread to 10 pages now :yes: 

Post +1


EDIT: 6 pages
The plan is in full effect.​


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> you are the one that said he was a top nba defender and top nba defenders ALWAYS guard the oppositions best player, i mean...unless hes not a top nba defender then he wouldnt be guarding kobe or tmac etc...but u know for sure that artest wast guarding friggin victor khyrapa or marquis daniels so that arguement is ridiculous


They don't ALWAYS guard the oppositions best player smart guy. You think Morris Peterson or Bruce Bowen are going to take on Amare, ect ect..? 

I'm pretty sure Artest was guarding Khyrapa considering the two other people in the backcourt were Jarrett Jack and Steve Blake. And Josh Howard wasn't playing in the Mavs game I mentioned, so Artest probably rotated between Dirk and Marquis.

And you are pretty ridiculous for not realizing that that arguement was just showing that you CANNOT show a players defensive prowress by posting opponents points.. (Look at what agoo did with Mo-Pete, exactly what I did with Artest - so it's not my ridiculous arguement, it's his that I was mocking).. Too complicated?


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

vigilante said:


> They don't ALWAYS guard the oppositions best player smart guy. You think Morris Peterson or Bruce Bowen are going to take on Amare, ect ect..?



amare???...i thought u would be able to realize i was talking about perimiter players without me spellng it out for u but i guess not...so u bring a pf into the conversation...nice one...really helps ur arguement




> And you are pretty ridiculous for not realizing that that arguement was just showing that you CANNOT show a players defensive prowress by posting opponents points.. (Look at what agoo did with Mo-Pete, exactly what I did with Artest - so it's not my ridiculous arguement, it's his that I was mocking).. Too complicated?


ok...ur right...but i think the other 50 ppl and i in this thread have given very solid evidence against mopete being a top defender compared to the "hes a great defender because i said he is" arguement that i keep hearing from u and whoever else is defending mopete in this thread...you have no evidence other than ur opinion... and every raptors game ive seen in the last 3 or so years he gets torched by pierce or whoever else hes guarding...so until i see any real evidence backing up mopete other than wikipedia.com im gonna agree with the person here who said ill give u top 30 perimiter defender...and that may be pushing it


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## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

Dont forget that Kobe dropped 81 mainly on mo pete.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Pain5155 said:


> Dont forget that Kobe dropped 81 mainly on mo pete.


We already established that it was mainly on the NBA's worst defender Jalen Rose


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

DWest Superstar said:


> We already established that it was mainly on the NBA's worst defender Jalen Rose



http://www.nba.com/games/20060122/TORLAL/recap.html





> He played great tonight," said Raptors guard Morris Peterson, who guarded Bryant most of the game.


----------



## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> http://www.nba.com/games/20060122/TORLAL/recap.html


Ok. He still tore up Rose


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

Pain5155 said:


> Dont forget that Kobe dropped 81 mainly on mo pete.


Doesn't matter. You can give up points and still play terrific defense.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

agoo101284 said:


> Doesn't matter. You can give up points and still play terrific defense.



in most situations i can agree with this statement...but there is no way in HELL that can be true when the opposing player scores 81!!


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> http://www.nba.com/games/20060122/TORLAL/recap.html


oohhhhhhhhhh #1AntoineWalkerFan, my main brosuf!!!

comes through with the clutch quote from *NBA.COM* to solidfy it!!!

and, please.. tell me why bruce bowen is one of the best defenders in the nba.. i havent' seen him play much.. give me some stats or some evidence to prove it.. you better not jsut tel me hes a good defender. it wont work.

give me some stats, something.. you know what i want..


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

vigilante said:


> and, please.. tell me why bruce bowen is one of the best defenders in the nba.. i havent' seen him play much.. give me some stats or some evidence to prove it.. you better not jsut tel me hes a good defender. it wont work.
> 
> give me some stats, something.. you know what i want..


<table cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="375"><tbody><tr style="font-size: 11px; font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" bgcolor="#685a49"><td width="194">FIRST TEAM</td> <td width="194">SECOND TEAM</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"> *Bruce Bowen, San Antonio*
Ben Wallace, Detroit
Andrei Kirilenko, Utah
Ron Artest, Indiana
Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers
Jason Kidd, New Jersey
</td> <td valign="top"> Tim Duncan, San Antonio
Chauncey Billups, Detroit
Kevin Garnett, Minnesota
Marcus Camby, Denver
Tayshaun Prince, Detroit
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="375"> <tbody><tr style="font-size: 12px; font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" bgcolor="#414e61"> <td colspan="2" align="center">2004-05</td> </tr> <tr style="font-size: 11px; font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" bgcolor="#685a49"> <td width="194">FIRST TEAM</td> <td width="194">SECOND TEAM</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"> Ben Wallace, Detroit
Kevin Garnett, Minnesota
*Bruce Bowen, San Antonio*
Tim Duncan, San Antonio
Larry Hughes, Washington
</td> <td valign="top"> Tayshaun Prince, Detroit
Marcus Camby, Denver
Chauncey Billups, Detroit
Andrei Kirilenko, Utah
Jason Kidd, New Jersey
Dwyane Wade, Miami
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> 

<table cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="375"> <tbody><tr style="font-size: 12px; font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" bgcolor="#414e61"> <td colspan="2" align="center">2003-04</td> </tr> <tr style="font-size: 11px; font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" bgcolor="#685a49"> <td width="194">FIRST TEAM</td> <td width="194">SECOND TEAM</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"> Ron Artest, Indiana
Kevin Garnett, Minnesota
Ben Wallace, Detroit
*Bruce Bowen, San Antonio*
Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers
</td> <td valign="top"> Andrei Kirilenko, Utah
Tim Duncan, San Antonio
Theo Ratliff, Portland
Doug Christie, Sacramento
Jason Kidd, New Jersey
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> 

<table cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="375"> <tbody><tr style="font-size: 12px; font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" bgcolor="#414e61"> <td colspan="2" align="center">2002-03</td> </tr> <tr style="font-size: 11px; font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" bgcolor="#685a49"> <td width="194">FIRST TEAM</td> <td width="194">SECOND TEAM</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"> Tim Duncan, San Antonio
Kevin Garnett, Minnesota
Ben Wallace, Detroit
Doug Christie, Sacramento
Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers
</td> <td valign="top"> Ron Artest, Indiana
*Bruce Bowen, San Antonio*
Shaquille O'Neal, L.A. Lakers
Jason Kidd, New Jersey
Eric Snow, Philadelphia
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> 

<table cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="375"> <tbody><tr style="font-size: 12px; font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" bgcolor="#414e61"> <td colspan="2" align="center">2001-02</td> </tr> <tr style="font-size: 11px; font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" bgcolor="#685a49"> <td width="194">FIRST TEAM</td> <td width="194">SECOND TEAM</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"> Tim Duncan, San Antonio
Kevin Garnett, Minnesota
Ben Wallace, Detroit
Gary Payton, Seattle
Jason Kidd, New Jersey
</td> <td valign="top"> *Bruce Bowen, San Antonio*
Clifford Robinson, Detroit
Dikembe Mutombo, Philadelphia
Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers
Doug Christie, Sacamento
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> 

<table cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0" width="375"><tbody><tr style="font-size: 12px; font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" bgcolor="#414e61"> <td colspan="2" align="center">2000-01</td> </tr> <tr style="font-size: 11px; font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" bgcolor="#685a49"> <td width="194">FIRST TEAM</td> <td width="194">SECOND TEAM</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"> Tim Duncan, San Antonio
Kevin Garnett, Minnesota
Dikembe Mutombo, Philadelphia-Atl
Gary Payton, Seattle
Jason Kidd, Phoenix
</td> <td valign="top"> *Bruce Bowen,* Miami
P.J. Brown, Charlotte
Shaquille O'Neal, L.A. Lakers
Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers
Doug Christie, Sacamento</td></tr></tbody></table>
Morris Peterson has never received a vote for the All-NBA Defensive Teams (I'm assuming, seeing as how I can only go back to 2003. But I doubt he received any prior to that).


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 

hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Tersk u da man!!! rep for u!!





vigilante said:


> and, please.. tell me why bruce bowen is one of the best defenders in the nba.. i havent' seen him play much.. give me some stats or some evidence to prove it.. you better not jsut tel me hes a good defender. it wont work.
> 
> give me some stats, something.. you know what i want..



hmmmm mopete has NEVER recieved 1 VOTE for the all defensive team, yea bowen has made that team 6 straight years...not to mention being the leading vote getter this year...and he also led san antonio to being one of the best defenses in the league this year holding opposing teams to less than 89 ppg...mopete could barely hold kobe to less than 89 ppg...but im _sure_ that this isnt enough evidence for u...


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> :hmmmm mopete has NEVER recieved 1 VOTE for the all defensive team, yea bowen has made that team 6 straight years...not to mention being the leading vote getter this year...and he also led san antonio to being one of the best defenses in the league this year holding opposing teams to less than 89 ppg...mopete could barely hold kobe to less than 89 ppg..


NO! don't base your arguement on other peoples opinions.. because you could just ask any raptor fan how good of a defender morris peterson is and they'd tell you.

i'll admit bruce bowen was a stupid drunken example brought up by me.. but you keep asking me for stats and evidence on mo-pete being one of the best perimeter defenders in the league (meaning he likely wouldn't be on the all defensive teams) when you couldn't give me anything on bowen except the all defensive team stuff... give me something else.

he sure as hell didn't lead san antonios defense, thats for sure. you have to be a complete and utter moron to think san antonio would be the same defensive team they are without tim duncan, and that bruce bowen would be the same defensive player without tim duncan. 



> but im _sure_ that this isnt enough evidence for u...


ME.. ME..........ME?

your the guy thats rambling on for pages how morris peterson isn't a good defender, even though you admit seeing him play four times a year. solid.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

vigilante said:


> NO! don't base your arguement on other peoples opinions.. because you could just ask any raptor fan how good of a defender morris peterson is and they'd tell you.


*
We're supposed to listen to Raptor fans on how good Mo Pete is but not to anyone else?

It's like me saying "ask any Celtic fan, the Celtics have the best future in the NBA, don't listen to the rest of the league."


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

aquaitious said:


> *
> We're supposed to listen to Raptor fans on how good Mo Pete is but not to anyone else?
> 
> It's like me saying "ask any Celtic fan, the Celtics have the best future in the NBA, don't listen to the rest of the league."


No, sorry. Just anyone that watches enough Raptor games (more than four) to know whether Morris Peterson is a consistent, top of the line perimeter defender.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

I disagree. 

I watch more than four, and I would not rank him top 10-15 perimeter defenders.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

He is not a top 10-15 perimeter defender. And he's not coming to Boston.


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## TheTruth34 (Jul 22, 2006)

Id say Mo-Pete definetly, i got big dreams for Al Jefferson

Ratliff
Jefferson
Pierce
AI/Mo-Pete
Telfair/West( both are extrememly talented, its gonna be hard to keep both in a few yrs )


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Causeway said:


> He is not a top 10-15 perimeter defender. And he's not coming to Boston.



thank you




Tersk said:


> I disagree.
> 
> I watch more than four, and I would not rank him top 10-15 perimeter defenders.



and thank you


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

and for anyone who would like to check out my poll in the nba general forum please do so :biggrin: 


http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=290731


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