# Raef Trade Possibilities



## wizmentor (Nov 10, 2005)

Raef's Contract is considered a "valuable asset". However, there are only a small number of players that Raef can be traded for (considering we don't generally want multiple players back).

Teams interested in Raef's contract are those that are heading downhill or can't make it over the hump, and might want to trade high long salary contracts. Here is a list of teams that I think might fall into that category:

NJ
NY
Indy
Chicago
Milwaukee
Atlanta?
Charlotte?
Miami
Washington
Memphis
Minnesota
Seattle
Sacramento

Here is a list of these team's top salary (at least $8 mil) players (from http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm )

The format is

Name, 08/09 salary, final year of contract
(Raef is 12.7 (08/09))

Vince Carter 15.2 (2011/12)
Richard Jefferson 13.2 (2010/11)
Zach Randolph 14.7 (10/11)
Eddy Curry 9.7 (10/11)
Quentin Richardson 8.8 (09/10)
Jamal Crawford 8.6 (10/11)
Larry Hughes 12.8 (09/10)
Kirk Hinrich 10.0 (11/12)
Jermaine O'Neal 21.4 (09/10)
Troy Murphy 10.1 (10/11)
Mike Dunleavy 9.0 (10/11)
Michael Redd 15.8 (10/11)
Bobby Simmons 9.9 (09/10)
Maurice Williams 8.4 (11/12)
Joe Johnson 14.2 (09/10)
Jason Richardson 12.2 (10/11)
Gerald Wallace 8.3 (11/12)
Dwayne Wade 14.4 (09/10)
Caron Butler 9.0 (10/11)
Mike Miller 9.0 (09/10)
Al Jefferson 11.0 (12/13)
Brad Miller 11.4 (09/10)
Kenny Thomas 8.0 (09/10)

The list is intended to be complete, not realistic. Taking a few off the list reduces it to

Vince Carter 15.2 (11/12)
Richard Jefferson 13.2 (10/11)
Quentin Richardson 8.8 (09/10)
Jamal Crawford 8.6 (10/11)
Larry Hughes 12.8 (09/10)
Kirk Hinrich 10.0 (11/12)
Troy Murphy 10.1 (10/11)
Mike Dunleavy 9.0 (10/11)
Michael Redd 15.8 (10/11)
Bobby Simmons 9.9 (09/10)
Maurice Williams 8.4 (11/12)
Jason Richardson 12.2 (10/11)
Gerald Wallace 8.3 (11/12)
Caron Butler 9.0 (10/11)
Mike Miller 9.0 (09/10)
Brad Miller 11.4 (09/10)
Kenny Thomas 8.0 (09/10)

Which of these players should Portland target?
1) If doesn't have to be a player you like, if they really want to get rid of that player (the other team may include a player you like)
2) Is there any of these players that should be crossed off the list as highly not desirable for us or the other team doesn't want to trade them?
3) Blazers team needs: PG, SF. Nate has said he wants a defensive SF.


My choices (Raef is 12.7 (08/09)):

Richard Jefferson 13.2
Nets are going nowhere fast. They may consider some of our good young talent + expiring Raef (saves them $33 Mil).


Kirk Hinrich 10.0
Bulls regret contract? Not sure what their problem is, but Kirk's stock is definitely down.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Kirk or RJ are GREAT picks. I don't see RJ going though. They have a new trio, and he is damn good. Kirk is do-able...


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

Kirk's stock is down for a very good reason. He's been baaaaaaad this year. No thanks.

I think Portland keeps him around for a few reasons. First, none of the big men (Joel, Greg or LaMarcus) have great track records for staying healthy. Second, the Blazers will almost surely let the contract come off the books and use that money to sign a free agent. That seems like it's been the plan since last summer, so I don't see them trading Raef, unless the right deal came along.


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## chairman (Jul 2, 2006)

Ruff Draft said:


> Kirk or RJ are GREAT picks. I don't see RJ going though. They have a new trio, and he is damn good. Kirk is do-able...


Oh I think we could get either one for the right price, because they are both over paid. The question is do we really want them at their salary and for one of our young desireable players? For that amount of money I want someone better than both.


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## B-Roy (Feb 12, 2008)

To be honest I really want Caron Butler or Michael Redd even though that would never happen.

We should seriously target Mo Williams, great point, can score, pass.


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## LameR (Jan 4, 2004)

I would be overjoyed if we got Butler. Would trading Raef/something for one of those players be better than just holding onto him for another year though? Which do you think would be more beneficial regarding cap space and the signing/trading of a player of the calibre listed. Also factor in the young guys are going to need to get paid over the next few years.


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## Ukrainefan (Aug 1, 2003)

Caron Butler or Gerald Wallace. Be surprised if we could get either one.


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## B-Roy (Feb 12, 2008)

Actually, as crazy as this sounds, we should try and get *Shawn Marion*.



> Shawn Marion played about as well as the Heat could have expected before his recent back spasms, but their relationship will be tested this summer.
> 
> Though Marion and agent Dan Fegan aren't ready to discuss their intentions, this much is clear: Marion would like to clarify his future this summer and is expected to ask the Heat for an extension beyond the remaining year on his contract. But it's difficult to envision the Heat making that commitment.
> 
> ...


-http://www.miamiherald.com/594/story/470439.html

I know he wants money,(he's overpaid) and the Heat don't express interest in him anymore because they are trying to relieve cap room to sign Elton Brand in 2009. We could probably work something out where Marion opts out and then we do a sign and trade with Raef since the Heat obviously wants more cap room. It all depends on if Marion is willing to sign for less money each year, but with a guarranteed long term contract.

I know having him would be GREAT. He's an awesome SF, an AWESOME defender especially on the perimeter, and a veteran who can bring experience to a young team.

Pretty unrealistic, but I would go for it.


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

Every season before the deadline, a star is traded for expiring contracts and future picks. Next season will be no different. I predict we get our starting PG by trading bits and peices of Outlaw, Webster, Frye, Jack, and picks, but I think we get our starting SF by trading Raef.


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## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

I would go for Caron Butler, RJ, and maybe Kirk although I would rather see a OJ Mayo or Devin Harris over Hinrich.


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

Don't like Kirk much, very low shooting percentage but has good defense. Yes on Caron and RJ but they are likely to go nowhere. I think Deng might be a possibility though.


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## deanwoof (Mar 10, 2003)

dirk

think about it. he's a terrible fit for jason kidd. not clutch. no post game. avery johnson and him don't see eye to eye. and dallas will need a team blow up especially if they fail to make the playoffs and start out bad next year as well. 

then think about portland and we'd utilize him. what are we lacking? outside shooting. someone to create his own shot besides brandon roy. defense, well that's something we'd definately sacrifice. 

three headed 7 foot monsters in Oden, Aldridge and Dirk. With Brandon and Rudy. 

we'd give them at the very least Raef Lafrentz, Travis Outlaw, Channing Frye, and Sergio (to learn under Kidd's last year) for Dirk and let's say Eddie Jones. 

Oden + Przybilla
Aldridge + McRoberts + Draft Pick
Dirk + Webster + Jones
Roy + Rudy + Jones
Blake + Jack 

Dampier + Raef
Outlaw + Frye
Howard + Bass
Stackhouse + Terry
Kidd + Sergio


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

wastro said:


> Kirk's stock is down for a very good reason. He's been baaaaaaad this year. No thanks.


He didn't all of the sudden forget how to play basketball. He's been excellent in years past. Luol Deng is having a bad season in Chicago as well. I don't watch the Bulls enough to know exactly what's going on, but I don't think it's all the fault of Hinrich or Deng that they're having off years. They seem like a lot of talented guys with a real lack of chemistry, which may be why some players aren't living up to their potential.

My three from that list would be Kirk Hinrich, Mo Williams and Gerald Wallace.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

Portland hasn't traditionally been very aggressive in trading massive expiring contracts. we ditched Francis rather than holding onto his contract for a possible future trade. Sabonis, Stoudamire and Rahim all saw their big deals expire despite all sorts of speculation. Sheed was traded for nothing special. now we're trying to get a medical retirement on Miles. 

on the other hand, Portland recently has traded big nasty contracts for even longer nasty contracts. Paul Allen's willingness to suck up the Raef and Francis contracts are a good sign. 

that they are so recent goes to show that Paul Allen seems willing to spend the money on a winner. so maybe a deal for Raef + some of our youth is a little more likely now.


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## _w00t_ (Mar 27, 2008)

I love B-Roys idea of going after Marion. I think he would be great at the 3 for us. Caron would be nice also but I don't think Washington is going to give him up. I could see Miami giving up Marion for a large expiring contract and some picks.

If not Marion, I would like to try and grab Hinrich or Mo Williams. We need a good, starting quality PG bad!


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## wizmentor (Nov 10, 2005)

I agree, Marion would be sweet, and Miami may indeed be tempted with
a couple of youngins, Raef, and a pick.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Agent Zero.

I know people will say there's no way we could get Gilbert Arenas, but I believe he's on his way out of Washington and we have as good a chance as anyone to land him in a sign and trade deal.


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## Blaze (Jan 25, 2003)

I too agree about Marion. LaFrentz, Jack and our #1 this year (throw in some of our 2nd rounders as well)for Marion. We'd have him on the books for one more year (I think he'd be crazy to opt out this summer) and then we can decide if we want to sign him for more years next year. Also next summer, with us being under the cap, we could also try and sign Arenas (I also think he'd be crazy to opt out this summer) Here's a decent lineup:

PG - Arenas/Rodriguez
SG - Roy/Fernandez
SF - Marion/Outlaw/Webster
PF - Alridge/Frye/McRoberts
C - Oden/Pryz


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

Signing both Arenas and Marion would be trouble. Thats just too many hands and not enough balls(LOL). 

By the way, nearly every post so far on this thread has been grossly undervaluing the incoming player. That Dirk trade idea almost made me spit out my drink.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

Marion is intriguing. the big question with him is, "Does he still overvalue himself?" he wasn't satisfied with touches, respect and the lack of a massive contract extension in Phoenix. 

now, 16 games of utter failure in Miami might be enough to convince him that perhaps a $10 mil contract and the role of 4th banana ain't so bad. I'm not sure though. 

a trio of Marion, Aldridge and Oden at the 3/4/5 would be a defensive monster. but I'd want to make sure Marion's ego had come down to size, first.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

As Mook pointed out, the Blazers have a history of *not* trading expiring contracts. I'd say the odds are better than 50/50 that Raef ends next season in a Blazer uniform.


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

i could see chi town trading maybe...to clear cap space


*HOW ABOUT THIS TRADE*

*CHI SENDS:*
HINRICH
SEFOLOSHA
CURRY

*POR SENDS:*
RAEF
JACK
#13

Reasons CHI does it:
-I think they start blowing up their roster so start with Hinrich huge contract
-instead of paying Hinrich 43 over 4 they pay Raef 48 over 1
-They get a young point man in Jack to fill in for Hinrich
-They get the #13 pick to go with their #9 pick...so they get two new young guys this year

Reasons PDX does it:
-Get a formidable point man in Hinrich while hoping he can return to his previous play
-Get a good guard in Sefolosha...he will be mad to sit but can be insurance or trade bait later
-We can just cut Curry to opena roster spot for furute trades or 2nd round draft picks if we wish

-Assuming we let Jones walk...it would look something like this

Hinrich/Blake/Sergio/Thabo
Roy/Rudy/Thabo
Webster/Outlaw/Rudy/Thabo
LA/Frye/McBob
GO/Pryz


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

mook said:


> on the other hand, Portland recently has traded big nasty contracts for even longer nasty contracts. Paul Allen's willingness to suck up the Raef and Francis contracts are a good sign.


As Paul Allen said when we won the Oden lottery, "that changes everything". He is clearly committed to spending whatever it takes to build a dynasty around Oden, Aldridge and Roy.

And, unlike the John Nash era, we have recently been sending out bad contracts for even worse contracts PLUS young talent. That's how we got Roy and it's how we got Rudy. So, look around the league for a team that has two things: a player with a worse contract than Raef, and either a high draft pick, or a promising young player at the positions we need , SF and PG. 

Off the top of my head, Memphis fits the bill - and they are looking to dump as much salary as possible, even if it means GIVING away talent. 

The Knicks have plenty of bad contracts, and unless Isiah has already given it away in a previous deal, they'll have a top 5 or 6 pick. I'm sure Donnie Walsh will be looking to dump as many bad contract as he can (which is 80% of the Knicks roster), but he won't be as easy to fleece as Isiah was.

Miami, the Clipps, Milwaukee and Charlotte are other possible trading partners, but I'm not sure if any of them would be willing to give us what we want/need (talent upgrade at SF or PG, or high draft pick) as part of a salary dump. Most of them will probably keep their pick and try to build through youth.

After the year they had, Chicago will probably be looking to make major off season moves, but they don't really have much I covet. Heinrich had an off year. He's better than Blake defensively, but in a good year he's an average offensive player who doesn't get many more assists than Blake, and turns the ball over more. He's also almost as old as Blake. Given that he's at best, a minor upgrade over Blake, I'd rather just keep Blake and his cheap contract (one year team option at ~$4.75 million) than take on Kirk and his ridiculous one (four years and $36.5 million).

BNM


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

No To Arenas

No To Marion


Both Want Big Money
Both Want To Be #1 Options
Both Are Selfish


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

dwood615 said:


> No To Arenas


Gil is ALWAYS about Gil. No thanks.



dwood615 said:


> No To Marion


Love the talent. Hate the attitude. No thanks. The guy actually wanted OUT of Phoenix because his teammates were too good.

BNM


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

No one.


If we trade Raef we lose our cap space. I don't want to sacrifice that for Kirk Hinrich. If we can include him in a deal for a young PG who is considerably better than Blake then great. Otherwise let him fall off the books and roll the dice in 09'


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

mediocre man said:


> No one.


I'm starting to think that we have our team. If Rudy comes over, I would just as soon let Raef go and keep the rest as is. We have all the pieces. 

I would rather just build through the draft and keep our roster number within range by using young players (that are not our best) to move up and continue to mine the draft.

I don't see anyone available through a S&T for Raef that I really want (that is available) and I don't see any solid free agents that I think we can get in 2009 either--but, I'd rather have the cap space just in case.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Reep said:


> I'm starting to think that we have our team. If Rudy comes over, I would just as soon let Raef go and keep the rest as is. We have all the pieces.
> 
> I would rather just build through the draft and keep our roster number within range by using young players (that are not our best) to move up and continue to mine the draft.
> 
> I don't see anyone available through a S&T for Raef that I really want (that is available) and I don't see any solid free agents that I think we can get in 2009 either--but, I'd rather have the cap space just in case.




We don't have our team at all. 

We are in dire need of a PG and SF upgrade. Jack must go for several reasons for this team to be successful, and Webster and Frye have contracts that could be a problem for our 09' cap space plan


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Boob-No-More said:


> Gil is ALWAYS about Gil. No thanks.
> 
> BNM


Gilbert Arenas is one of the most misunderstood dudes around. He's a complete weirdo, but ALL he wants to do is win. (And act like a freak.)


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

two questions: 

What school did kirk go to?

What position does he play?

What school did kp go to?

What position did he play?

I could see him pull a billy beane and target a player out of favor. His contention might be that a pg's success is largely dependent on his cast of characters.


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## BengalDuck (Jun 19, 2004)

I wonder what it would take to pry McGrady away from the Rockets...


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

BengalDuck said:


> I wonder what it would take to pry McGrady away from the Rockets...


I think the Rockets are pretty sure they can compete with a healthy Yao Ming. The superstar you should be looking for should be on a team that is about to re-tool or is disgruntled


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## SabasRevenge! (Apr 20, 2008)

I think it's more likely we let his contract expire to free up space in '09. IMO even more important than that is we're able to take back more salary than we give out in trades, plus the team we'd deal with would get a TE. It opens up a lot more possibilities...


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

mediocre man said:


> We don't have our team at all.
> 
> We are in dire need of a PG and SF upgrade. Jack must go for several reasons for this team to be successful, and Webster and Frye have contracts that could be a problem for our 09' cap space plan


I agree wholeheartedly with the first part....but not the part about cap space.

The odds of making a beneficial trade are far higher than the odds of finding an impact FA. Even if we found such a FA, we would likely wind up grossly overpaying (eg Rashard Lewis, Ben Wallace).


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

Fork said:


> Gilbert Arenas is one of the most misunderstood dudes around. He's a complete weirdo, but ALL he wants to do is win. (And act like a freak.)


What's to misunderstand? He's an attention whore. He was upset because he felt disrespected when he was cut from Team USA - not because he wanted to help them win, but because it was a personal slight. His response - he's going to drop 50 on the Blazers (and Suns) to get back at Nate - not his team is going to beat the Blazers by 50. Given the choice, he chooses personal glory over team success. We all know how well that worked out. Like I said, Gil is ALWAYS about Gil. No thanks.

BNM


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## wizmentor (Nov 10, 2005)

OK, outside of maybe RJ, people seem to think that either
1) the players are undesirable (e.g. Brad Miller),
2) not obtainable (e.g. Caron Butler), or
3) worthy, but not worthy of cap space (Kirk Heinrich)

What about taking on a salary to get another player?

For example,
David Lee + Eddy Curry for Jarrett Jack + Raef Lafrenz 
(throw-ins possible, I didn't "trade check")


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## deanwoof (Mar 10, 2003)

i will singlehandedly bring dirk to portland!


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## drexlersdad (Jun 3, 2006)

wizmentor said:


> OK, outside of maybe RJ, people seem to think that either
> 1) the players are undesirable (e.g. Brad Miller),
> 2) not obtainable (e.g. Caron Butler), or
> 3) worthy, but not worthy of cap space (Kirk Heinrich)
> ...



i have thought of this before as well, as the salaries are a match, but having curry as our backup leaves pryz out in the cold. if we did this deal, we could probably substitute the knicks lotto pick for lee.


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

The Knicks would never do Curry+top 5 pick for Jack+Raef.


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## Draco (Jun 28, 2003)

I love the idea of going after Marion. I'd offer Raef, Jack and Martell for Marion, with us possibly throwing in a future draft pick (not this years #13 is too high.)

We get to rent Marion for a season, and resign him if he is a good fit, or let him walk if he is not. The concerns about Jack are all over this board, and I also think Martell will not be a happy camper next season. He was a starter most of this year, he has a sense of entitlement. His game has not improved much and I highly doubt he makes much more than minor improvements next season. If Marion comes over, and Travis is still the 6th man, that leaves Martell as the odd man out and he won't be happy about it.

If Marion is a good fit we can offer him a nice deal starting at ~$9mil and still have cap room left over for a big free agent offer. Trading away Jack and Martell will eliminate their cap holds and free up money.

It would be preferable to get a deal like this done in the offseason so we don't have to adjust midseason, but I could also see a deal like this going down in February at the trade deadline.


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## EyeDK (May 24, 2006)

What about Raef and Frye for Rashard Lewis? Turkoglu seems to give the Magic what they thought they would get with Lewis. Raef's expiring contract allows the Magic get out of Lewis's contract. The Magic get a real PF that should be able to compliment Howard.


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## dwood615 (Jul 20, 2004)

no his contract is too big and would take away from us resigning our big 3

and not to mention why not keep raef so we can have the 13 mil????


the only way i want to trade raef is if we get a great overpaid player...not a good overpaid player


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## deanwoof (Mar 10, 2003)

when did Channing Frye become a real PF?


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

EyeDK said:


> What about Raef and Frye for Rashard Lewis? Turkoglu seems to give the Magic what they thought they would get with Lewis. Raef's expiring contract allows the Magic get out of Lewis's contract. The Magic get a real PF that should be able to compliment Howard.


for some reason Lewis isn't having a very good playoffs. but if you look at his stats you can tell he's worth a lot more than that. 18 ppg, 45% fg, 40% 3pt. 

if Orlando wants out of the contract, though, it's not a bad deal for either party. it has the added advantage of being in different conferences.


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## EyeDK (May 24, 2006)

deanwoof said:


> when did Channing Frye become a real PF?


 Towards the end of the season is when I realized Frye is a legit PF. He doesn't have the low post, great defense game that most people expect out of a PF but he's a good rebounder. Frye has size and a good work ethic. He just happens to be a jump shooting PF not a low post PF.


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

i would go for j rich or caron


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## B-Roy (Feb 12, 2008)

mook said:


> for some reason Lewis isn't having a very good playoffs. but if you look at his stats you can tell he's worth a lot more than that. 18 ppg, 45% fg, 40% 3pt.
> 
> if Orlando wants out of the contract, though, it's not a bad deal for either party. it has the added advantage of being in different conferences.


For hells sakes, let's not eat Lewis's gigantic contract.


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

mook said:


> for some reason Lewis isn't having a very good playoffs. but if you look at his stats you can tell he's worth a lot more than that. 18 ppg, 45% fg, 40% 3pt.
> 
> if Orlando wants out of the contract, though, it's not a bad deal for either party. it has the added advantage of being in different conferences.


No way. Rashard's contract is a cautionary tale about the risks of signing a player away from a team in free agency. You have to overpay and it never seems to work out (except when the Suns signed Nash).


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

craigehlo said:


> No way. Rashard's contract is a cautionary tale about the risks of signing a player away from a team in free agency. You have to overpay and it never seems to work out (except when the Suns signed Nash).


...and yet we keep hearing how we shouldn't sign somebody because we want cap room in 2009 to sign...a free agent. anybody else see the irony here? 

seriously, I really think we're going to get a deal similar to trading for Rashard, if not exactly for that player. Pritchard talks about signing a big name free agent because if he didn't, he'd have to talk about adding a lot of salary through a major trade. and if he starts talking about a major trade, then the conversation starts about which of our players is getting dumped. which is lousy for chemistry. 

Lewis is vastly overpaid, but that's the only reason he might be available for spare parts.


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