# Raps-Bulls Trade Good or Bad



## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

I think we gave up way too much in Jerome AND Antonio if it were one or the other and mopete or alvin fine but JYD and AD pisses me off


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## SLSI (Nov 25, 2003)

<font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">VERY GOOD  

<B>-SLSI-</B>


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

I think it was a good trade, but JYD will be missed in the locker room and town. It may not show up on a stat sheet, but Im sure it will affect the team.


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

the raptors needed some more firepower (they needed alot), here it is....stop complainin


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## AdamIllman (May 12, 2003)

It's a great trade. The only thing we gave up was JYD...but you have to give something to get something. We get rid of AD's ugly contract...and yes Jalen's isnt great either but he'll produce a lot more than AD will IMO. I love Donyell Marshall too...I think JYD will be forgotten pretty soon once you guys see how good marshall is. And i love getting rid of jefferies...all he did was stand around. I'd take baxter over him in a heart beat


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

great trade.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

the thing i worry about is how will Bosh's development be like with this? i hope the raps keep in mind that VC and Bosh are the future on this team.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

i know that i like this team more but we could get spanked in the paint night in and night out. we'll have to wait and see.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Ask me at the all-star break.
For those that think our new guys will come in and make us winners right off the bat without an adjustment period, wait and see. Things might be rocky for a few weeks.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

losing jyd hurts but people we just got rid of 2 ugly contractrs
ad 13.2 mill/season
jyd 6 mill/season

Jyd is a great rebounder but 6 mill for a guyt with a very limited offensive is to much, Marshall offensily is a upgrade thier, as for Ad he wasa Warrior but his offensive game is outdated and was under sized at C, I would to see what Moiso can offer at C.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> the thing i worry about is how will Bosh's development be like with this? i hope the raps keep in mind that VC and Bosh are the future on this team.


bosh should be counted on more than ever. he may be pushed into more minutes against second string centers. let's hope his body and stamina can hold up.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

Waste of thread capacity 

Good


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

We will miss JYD and I wish would woulda given them AW instead, but hey, we can't have anything we want. But I think this trade is good for us . And them too.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>FanOfAll8472</b>!
> We will miss JYD and I wish would woulda given them AW instead, but hey, we can't have anything we want. But I think this trade is good for us . And them too.


Why in the bloody hell are you all so sympathetic for Jerome Williams when he can be involved in the Toronto community when he retires?


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

I love this trade. 
Just a thought, could the Raptors trade Mo Pete for a half decent center?


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mo76</b>!
> I love this trade.
> Just a thought, could the Raptors trade Mo Pete for a half decent center?


no, not on his own. murray seems like the prime candidate for a trade but i wouldn't expect much in return.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

The 2 people that voted for "No" are probably Jerome Williams and Chris Jefferies themselves.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> The 2 people that voted for "No" are probably Jerome Williams and Chris Jefferies themselves.


Ha.

But I don't think CJ would be too upset. He never got the playing time to develop here for various reasons. I can see him eventually being as good as Mo Pete, who they wanted but we wouldn't send their way.


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> 
> Why in the bloody hell are you all so sympathetic for Jerome Williams when he can be involved in the Toronto community when he retires?


I love the community work, but we will miss him because of his great rebounding and hustle...that's what i meant.



> The 2 people that voted for "No" are probably Jerome Williams and Chris Jefferies themselves.


:laugh:


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

This year vince seems to have his head on straight and is actually playing some good defence.

Do raptors fans really want a veteran in Jalen Rose influencing vince with his attidude?


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>shazha</b>!
> This year vince seems to have his head on straight and is actually playing some good defence.
> 
> Do raptors fans really want a veteran in Jalen Rose influencing vince with his attidude?


That's an important question.
Jalen's attitude, however, was greatly related to his reduced role on Cartwrong's Bulls.
If he is back in the starting lineup, as a second option instead of a first, with a welcoming crowd and not-so-demanding sports city, that supposed cancerous attitude might disappear.
He won't be happy this weekend, but hopefully he can suck it up and be a true Raptor for our games next week.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> 
> Ha.
> ...


I think CJ blows. Before he was a Raptor, he and J.R. Bremer were in training camp and the Raptors preferred CJ over Bremer, someone who's proven way more than CJ.


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## Goku (Aug 28, 2003)

is Rose more of a half-court player?


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

Loved it....I'm guessing that GG is out of the doghouse at least for now....


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NeoSamurai</b>!
> Loved it....I'm guessing that GG is out of the doghouse at least for now....


Finally, GG earns my respect. Thats like the best quality transaction he's done in years.


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## Jermyzy (Feb 26, 2003)

Should help the raps offensively, but now they've lost their two best rebounders and still lack big men.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

Not a good trade, IMO. We just lost 2 of our best big men. I like the idea of getting rose and marshall, but I'd like this trade a lot better if they had thrown in chandler/curry. I mean, sure AD was undersized.. but better undersized than no center right? And now there's a log jam at SF with Rose, Murray, and Curry...

I guess our best option is to use Marshall at C? :dead: 

I guess we'll live and die by perimeter shots..


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>c_dog</b>!
> Not a good trade, IMO. We just lost 2 of our best big men. I like the idea of getting rose and marshall, but I'd like this trade a lot better if they had thrown in chandler/curry. I mean, sure AD was undersized.. but better undersized than no center right? And now there's a log jam at SF with Rose, Murray, and Curry...
> 
> I guess our best option is to use Marshall at C? :dead:
> ...


Then we can trade for a quality center. Duh....


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## laydee-bawla22 (Jul 15, 2003)

Good trade, now I just wonder where our rebounding is gonna come from since jyd and AD made up for about 90% of it. It's time to trade one of the SFs + AW for a good C.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

This was a great trade. The Bulls were desperate to get rid of Jalen and from a talent point of view we mugged them bigtime. Plus we keep MoP which gives us another nice trade piece in him or LM.

Rose is big upgrade over AD on offense.

Marshall is huge upgrade over JYD on offense and matches his boards.

Baxter could put up better numbers than JYD as well if he gets minutes. Younger and cheaper than JYD

So we get plenty of rebounding back, plus Moiso is good for 8 a game easy.

We had ZERO inside presense on Offense and now we have a little with Marshall.

We were already near the bottom of the league in rebounding so I don't see how losing AD and JYD can hurt us much.

Bosh was already taking JYD/AD minutes away in the 3 man rotation and his boards are increasing. Marshall/Baxter/Moiso will get the rest.


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Goku</b>!
> is Rose more of a half-court player?


Yeah...he doesnt like running the break.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

I think Rose will blossom again in Toronto. Rose is at his best when playing second fiddle. with Vince being the man in Toronto, look for Jalen to optimize his all-around game instead of trying to score too much like he did in Chicago. Jalen is very good when he is not trying to do too to much. Like his years in Indiana and of course the Fab Five years. 

Probably Toronto might lost some of that defensive intensity that JYD and AD provided.

So the trade is an upgrade on offense, but it hurts Toronto's defense.


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## Dj_Danny_Dee (Aug 8, 2003)

i seriously don't think marshall and bosh can rebound as effectively as jyd and davis. Yeah, Bosh is getting better and rebounding better, but some of those rebounds were becuz davis or jyd had their man pinned so bosh was able to get the rebound. Davis's numbers look shiittty sometimes, but the reason why is because he spends a lot of his energy stoping his man from scoring and from gettting rebounds. He basically sacrifice his stats to allow our team to get the ball. 
Whether you guys believe this or not, it's true.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Dj_Danny_Dee</b>!
> i seriously don't think marshall and bosh can rebound as effectively as jyd and davis. Yeah, Bosh is getting better and rebounding better, but some of those rebounds were becuz davis or jyd had their man pinned so bosh was able to get the rebound. Davis's numbers look shiittty sometimes, but the reason why is because he spends a lot of his energy stoping his man from scoring and from gettting rebounds. He basically sacrifice his stats to allow our team to get the ball.
> Whether you guys believe this or not, it's true.


How can you be a "better" rebounder than others when you just snatch the ball with both of your hands?


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> 
> How can you be a "better" rebounder than others when you just snatch the ball with both of your hands? In my opinion, rebounding is the easiest thing in Basketball.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> 
> How can you be a "better" rebounder than others when you just snatch the ball with both of your hands?


don't you witness players being "better" rebounders than other players every day? Rebounding takes a combination of hard work, quickness, timing, positioning, size, strength, and leaping ability. 

AD had 9.5 rebounds in 36 minutes a game. he's a good rebounder. can Moiso put up the same numbers? i think he can consistantly grab 8. but as someone already noted, he isn't going to displace his man nearly as much as AD has for us in the past, making it more difficult for others to rebound. Rose is a good rebounder, AW is pretty good, and Carter can turn up his rebounding even more, Murray can rebound too. All these guys, along with Bosh and Moiso and Yell, must crash the boards every night for us to be successful.


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## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

this is a bad trade until GG makes his next move to get a C.

raps were one of the worst teams at giving up points in the paint and now it's going to be even worse.

raps were one of the best rebounding teams and now they are going to be just average.

raps were considered one of the best defensive teams in the league, i don't agree with that but they are not better now.

they didn't address their primary need which is a C, the bulls had two young C's and GG should have pushed to get one of them included in the trade.


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## KeonBackinTO (May 26, 2003)

> they didn't address their primary need which is a C, the bulls had two young C's and GG should have pushed to get one of them included in the trade.


Of course it would of been good to get Curry or Chandler, but the Raps don't have anyone to offer them besides Vince. Chicago isn't just going to give up players like that.
It was a good trade, you can't expect to fill every need with 1 trade.


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## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

:laugh: take out marshall and baxter, sub in Curry or chandler and then work in filler contracts.



> Of course it would of been good to get Curry or Chandler, but the Raps don't have anyone to offer them besides Vince. Chicago isn't just going to give up players like that.
> It was a good trade, you can't expect to fill every need with 1 trade.



no it's wasn't a good trade, i already stated that in my last post.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> don't you witness players being "better" rebounders than other players every day? Rebounding takes a combination of hard work, quickness, timing, positioning, size, *strength, and leaping ability.*


Nope. Say if the missed shot went more towards Muggsy Bogues than Shaq. Who do you think will get it? Muggsy will because even though Shaq is way stronger, Muggsy will easily get it. 

And you think Vince would get a rebound over Yao Ming? Who cares about his leaping ability, Ming will get the rebound easily over Vince.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> 
> Nope.


Strength and leaping ability don't matter? What?


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> 
> Strength and leaping ability don't matter? What?


Say if the missed shot went more towards Muggsy Bogues than Shaq. Who do you think will get it? Muggsy will because even though Shaq is way stronger, Muggsy will easily get it. 

And you think Vince would get a rebound over Yao Ming? Who cares about his leaping ability, Ming will get the rebound easily over Vince.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

this is why responding to Mattsanity's posts are worthless


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> Say if the missed shot went more towards Muggsy Bogues than Shaq. Who do you think will get it? Muggsy will because even though Shaq is way stronger, Muggsy will easily get it.
> 
> And you think Vince would get a rebound over Yao Ming? Who cares about his leaping ability, Ming will get the rebound easily over Vince.


Ok. If you say so.



> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> this is why responding to Mattsanity's posts are worthless


This is inappropriate.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> this is why responding to Mattsanity's posts are worthless


You just dissed yourself you know. If you don't realize it, go figure :laugh:


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## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> 
> You just dissed yourself you know. If you don't realize it, go figure :laugh:


he does that alot :laugh:


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> 
> Ok. If you say so.
> ...


I'm sorry man but he attacked me in the first place


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## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

gotta love how that always happens


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mattsanity</b>!
> 
> I'm sorry man but he attacked me in the first place


Hold on. Look at that post again. I quoted Trick after I quoted you. What you said wasn't inappropriate, it was what he said.


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## KeonBackinTO (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rawker</b>!
> :laugh: take out marshall and baxter, sub in Curry or chandler and then work in filler contracts.
> 
> 
> ...


No way the Bulls would do that. 
It's ok to say it wasn't a good trade, but there isn't really a trade out there you would seem to like. It improves the team, we aren't going to make 1 trade, and have no more weaknesses.
We aren't going to get a young stud prospect at C for past their prime overpaid scrubs.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> 
> Hold on. Look at that post again. I quoted Trick after I quoted you. What you said wasn't inappropriate, it was what he said.


OMG, I'm such an illiterate. My mistake.


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## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

whatever  



> No way the Bulls would do that.


what was their motive for the trade that happened mr smarty pants?



> It's ok to say it wasn't a good trade, but there isn't really a trade out there you would seem to like.


ignorance



> It improves the team


IMO it doesn't, i pointed out why, you just post the most generalized opinion on the topic.



> we aren't going to make 1 trade, and have no more weaknesses.


i never said the raps would



> We aren't going to get a young stud prospect at C for past their prime overpaid scrubs.


um who are you to know what could or couldn't have happened, who said the players involved had to be involved at all and that other players/team couldn't be involved?


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rawker</b>!
> gotta love how that always happens





> whatever


Yeah, whatever.


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## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

damn my coat tail is getting dirty from people taking rides on it.



> he attacked me in the first place





> gotta love how that always happens


yup, whatever :laugh:


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## Goku (Aug 28, 2003)

Curry and Chandler have Chris Bosh level trade value.


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## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

in your opinion but how desperate is chicago? from most peoples reactions to the trade they were pretty desperate.


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## Goku (Aug 28, 2003)

doesn't mean they have given up on them, or are looking to trade them.

your right, it's just my opinion. Anyways, my opinion is that general managers around the league would cream themselves to land one of those two, and Glen Grunwald would be laughed at by anybody who heard him offer anything on our team besides Bosh/Vince for Curry or Chandler


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## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

picks can be traded can't they?


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## Goku (Aug 28, 2003)

yes


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## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

what a concept eh?


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## Goku (Aug 28, 2003)

lol


(just out of curiosity, what do you think Curry or Chandler are worth. Just in general, not for our particular team. I'm assuming you don't think they are worth Bosh)


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## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

what about say wallace and a first rounder?


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## Goku (Aug 28, 2003)

yeah, thats close I guess

I thought you might have considered them scrubs or something. 

Anyways, peace man. 


(I have higher hopes for the trade we just made than you do, but everything you said could end up true. I'm really hoping for a follow up trade using Lammond or Mo, or both. I still like the trade though, because I didn't see the team we had doing anything other than squeaking into the playoffs. At least now I have hope something special could happen, even though it's a big risk giving up so many boards, and our only legit center)


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## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

> this is a bad trade until GG makes his next move to get a C.


i have high hopes for it too


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rawker</b>!
> picks can be traded can't they?


we can't afford to give up any more. we already lose our next non-lottery pick (but i assume you know that). we need to pick up draft picks, not trade them away.


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## Rawker (Jun 23, 2003)

oh man you are so wrong, this team has a good chance now if a good quality C is picked up. Bosh and Carter are locked up, the support players are in place, the time is now.

what you want the raps to draft a C and develop him for 4 years? :laugh:


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

If we don't trade for any premiere center this season, we have to draft Pavel Podkolzine.


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## Mattsanity (Jun 8, 2003)

To those of you who voted for "Bad", please reveal yourself.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

What the hell are you somking? Of course it's good!


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>c_dog</b>!
> I like the idea of getting rose and marshall, but I'd like this trade a lot better if they had thrown in chandler/curry.


No doubt - just throw in Curry. Why are you not an NBA GM? :uhoh:


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