# The Official " Knicks just won the 2007 lottery thread" / 2007 Draft thread



## SausageKingofChicago

I am making the call right now , today , the 19/7/2006

I have a cosmic sense of how this will be ...just like on the night of my 20th high school reunion last October when I was as pissed as at 4.00am in the morning and threw a $25 chip on #27 on the Roulette table 

Cha Ching ! Cha Ching ! Cha Ching ! 

Isiah was destined to take it in the date in any high profile managerial position in life after ball..look at his track record 

This will be the straw that broke the Camels back 

Write it down - book it - take it to the bank

I have already seen the vision


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## ztect

Too bad in a moment of insanity Pax trades the pick back to the knicks for Renaldo Balkman....

:devil2:


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## kulaz3000

wouldn't it be just tragic if i we got the no.1 pick from NY next year.. and Oden decides to stay back in school. 

We get Oden next year, as the 7 foot defensive monster who will undoubtly gain offensive moves as he gets older, we'll be the next dynasty for the next decade.


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## Ventura

:gopray:


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## BenDengGo

isiah, please take us to the promised land


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## SausageKingofChicago

ztect said:


> Too bad in a moment of insanity Pax trades the pick back to the knicks for Renaldo Balkman....
> 
> :devil2:


Z

That is brilliant 

ROFLMAO!


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## lougehrig

ztect said:


> Too bad in a moment of insanity Pax trades the pick back to the knicks for Renaldo Balkman....
> 
> :devil2:


Or he trades the top overall pick for Eddy Curry AND his limitless potential.


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## BULLS23

Zeke is our savior!


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## HAWK23

SausageKingofChicago said:


> I am making the call right now , today , the 19/7/2006
> 
> I have a cosmic sense of how this will be ...just like on the night of my 20th high school reunion last October when I was as pissed as at 4.00am in the morning and threw a $25 chip on #27 on the Roulette table
> 
> Cha Ching ! Cha Ching ! Cha Ching !


dayyyyum

u must have made about 900 bucks didn't u?


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## SausageKingofChicago

HAWK23 said:


> dayyyyum
> 
> u must have made about 900 bucks didn't u?


That's correct 

Went to the bar straight away ( had half a dozen of the lads still with me ) and blew about $200 over the next hour or so doing shots etc


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## fleetwood macbull

all i know is Zeke put his season (and ostensibly his career thanks to the Dolan gauntlet: Win now or else) on the fortunes of one Eddy McCurry. "It all depends on Eddy"...or something to that effect.

hows that grab ya for riverboat gambling?


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## lougehrig

fleetwood macbull said:


> all i know is Zeke put his career on the fortunes of one Eddy McCurry. "It all depends on Eddy"...or something to that effect.
> 
> hows that grab ya for riverboat gambling?


And Eddy responded by saying "I'm not a leader. I'm a good second option."


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## fleetwood macbull

lougehrig said:


> And Eddy responded by saying "I'm not a leader. I'm a good second option."


That statement might give IT a warm and fuzzy feeling :redface:


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## Dornado

Seriously you guys are nuts... just like you "Don't talk to your pitcher during a no-hitter" you should not be talking about winning the 2007 lottery via-the Knicks.... 

We're going to jinx it!


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## The ROY

Even if Oden doesn't come out...Durant or Noah would be good options for the #1 pick also....

We should be able to get a good young center out of the draft, if not, trade the pick..but here are the center options

Greg Oden (C)
Spencer Hawes (C)
Ante Tomic (C)
Joakim Noah (C/PF)
Tiago Splitter (PF/C)
Yi Jianlian (PF/C)
Alexis Ajinca (PF/C)
Roy Hibbert (C)

And although he's not a C, Big Baby reportedly (who at one time weighed 350lbs) dropped down to 290lbs over the course of the last few months. That alone moves him to mid-first round.


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## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls!

Why in the wide, wide world of sports wouldn't Ogden come out after one year? So he can go to some more frat parties, do the Girls Gone Wild circuit? Or, alternatively, in the Even more bizzare an and nonsensical category: get his educational bearings and select a proper major/program? No way, makes no sense, whatsover! I'd imagine he'll be available for selection next year...


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## Wynn

The ROY said:


> And although he's not a C, Big Baby reportedly dropped from 340lbs to 290lbs over the course of the last few months. That alone moves him to mid-first round.


...thus earning the revised "Slightlylargerthanmidsized Baby" moniker.


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## Hustle

If we don't get Oden, the other guy who could be the final piece

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1418


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## paxman

Bulls_Bulls_Bulls! said:


> Why in the wide, wide world of sports wouldn't Ogden come out after one year? So he can go to some more frat parties, do the Girls Gone Wild circuit?


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## The ROY

Question :

With PJ's contract coming off the books next year (Malik Allen's also), it opens the door for us to Kirk (if he isn't resigned soon) & Andres. So it seems the only significant move that will come next year is the addition of the NY pick (which will definintely be higher than ours). Does that shut the door on any other signings from that 2007 FA class?


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## paxman

The ROY said:


> Question :
> 
> With PJ's contract coming off the books next year (Malik Allen's also), it opens the door for us to Kirk (if he isn't resigned soon) & Andres. So it seems the only significant move that will come next year is the addition of the NY pick (which will definintely be higher than ours). Does that shut the door on any other signings from that 2007 FA class?


i think we have the MLE next year, right?


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## Machinehead

paxman said:


>



Is that Bachelor Bob ?


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## paxman

Machinehead said:


> Is that Bachelor Bob ?


that's a college football player that should have declared for 
the draft a year before he did (leinart)
i could've posted a picture of joakim noah, but he's not as "fun"


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## Machinehead

paxman said:


> that's a college football player that should have declared for
> the draft a year before he did (leinart)
> i could've posted a picture of joakim noah, but he's not as "fun"


He looks like Bob from The Bachelor ( a couple of seasons ago ) 

I sure hope he didn't stay to deal at this category of quality ( or lack thereof )


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## JustinC

One can only hope.


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## DaBabyBullz

Hustle said:


> If we don't get Oden, the other guy who could be the final piece
> 
> http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1418


He sounds like he'd be a good prospect anyway, be interesting to see him at WA next year. I wonder if he might be kind of Hakeem-like in his arsenal of moves on offense. I think I'd be happy with a guy like that if he's "as advertised".


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## LegoHat

paxman said:


> that's a college football player that should have declared for
> the draft a year before he did (leinart)
> i could've posted a picture of joakim noah, but he's not as "fun"


How about the man himself, Greg Oden:


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## ace20004u

LegoHat said:


> How about the man himself, Greg Oden:



Thats as good a reason to stay in school as I have seen! lol

Still the NBA hoochies are even hottter. Oden has ALWAYS said he wants and intends to be a 4 year college player....I don't see why or how he would but he has never said he plans on declaring next year just so we are all clear.


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## Xantos

I wouldn't get to caught up in the Draft of 2007...My gut tells me the Knicks will not be the Knicks of last year....to much on the line. They will make a run for the playoffs. A run, and making it are 2 different things....The team has talent. 

Of course I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see the bottom falling out like last year with this team. 

I'm looking further down the road....hmmmm say 2010. I hope the Cavs suck for the next 3 years, and I hope the Heat suck by then!! lol 

We should be solid the next few years, baring any major injuries....


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## THEbigO

considering the knicks most likely wont be as bad as they were last year and the draft pick might be 8-15...how about drafting this guy:
Hasheem Thabeet


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## Xantos

ace20004u said:


> Thats as good a reason to stay in school as I have seen! lol
> 
> Still the NBA hoochies are even hottter. Oden has ALWAYS said he wants and intends to be a 4 year college player....I don't see why or how he would but he has never said he plans on declaring next year just so we are all clear.












How about Drafting the chick dancing w/ Oden!! :biggrin:


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## Philomath

Xantos said:


> How about Drafting the chick dancing w/ Oden!! :biggrin:


She has a lot of upside, but not much length - on her skirt, anyway.


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## The ROY

Like I said...

We'll get ATLEAST a top 10 pick...


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## darlets

THEbigO said:


> considering the knicks most likely wont be as bad as they were last year and the draft pick might be 8-15...how about drafting this guy:
> Hasheem Thabeet


I'd take Al Horford personally.


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## BG7

If we end up with Spencer Hawes, I'll go crazy, do you know what Spencer Hawes means in Spanish? BUST BUST I"M A FRAKING BUST!!!!!!!!!!

I could see Oden telling Stern he'll only come to the NBA if a new york ball pops out first in the lottery. I wouldn't blame Oden, wanting to join the NBA champs. Oden will be like, yeah, get me in Chicago, I'll have 4 rings before I sign my big contract!


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## paxman

I would like to give thanks to your avatar.


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## BG7

I say we trade the pick for sloth getting a night with the lady in his avatar!


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## Showtyme

Bumpity.

I just glanced at the USA Basketball website and looked at the U18 men's team, who won the FIBA Americas U18 Championship. One guy was notable: Spencer Hawes.

This kid is 7-0, has a very Bargnani shape to his body except with more muscle. He's going to be a freshman at Washington and is likely to be one-and-done, barring an injury or a seriously terrible year.

He doesn't have a reputation as the fiercest defender, but he definitely knows how to block shots and rebound. More than that, he's got soft hands and offensive ability around the hoop, and can handle the ball. He sounds like a young Sabonis.

Everyone is saying that but for Oden, this kid would have been the top rated center in the class, and Scout.com already has him as the #3 overall talent in this high school class.










It's just something to think about. Might as well get this 2007 draft talk started up, since there's already been references to it in what Pax has said and what the media seems to be pointing to.

http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/spencerhawes.html
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/luke_winn/10/07/inside.cbb/index.html
http://www.usabasketball.com/men/2006/06_mu18_trials_hawes.html


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## Ron Cey

I've been pimping this guy in multiple threads for months and months trying to remind people not to overlook him. I love him. After Oden, Durant and perhaps Noah, he's the guy I want most in that draft. 

I'm going to be following him as much as I can in the Pac 10 this season.


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## Showtyme

Nice. Definitely a guy to keep an eye on.

The first round is chock full of guys like this, though. If there is a trade at some point this season, let's hope we can get back another 1st rounder. Look at the talent:

Bigs:

Oden
McRoberts
Noah
Yi Jianlian
Brandan Wright
Hawes
Roy Hibbert
Hasheem Thabeet (is this guy the real deal)
Splitter
Hansbrough
Gray

While I'm sure there will be a number of busts, I could see any of those being a legit starting PF/C in the League. Notably, McRoberts and Noah will be "collegiate big-stage" candidates that Pax likes. Oden and Yi and Hawes and Wright are the youngest of the group. Splitter may end up being the most NBA-ready of the group, the next Pau Gasol whose time is ripe and whose buyout is decreasing.

ESPN is telling me to keep my eye on Sean Williams, at Boston College, who is poised to have a monster year. After two years with limited minutes, he's going to see an increased role. And in 17.3 mpg, he averaged 3, 3 and TWO BLOCKS per game. That's very Roy Hibbert-like, and Sean Williams is supposedly more fluid. 

Other names to watch: Anthony King, Miami; Andrew Brackman, NC State (if he doesn't go into the MLB draft); Vernon Macklin, Georgetown; David Padgett, Louisville.

Let's not even get into the wings. Kevin Durant, the next Freak? Thaddeus Young, the next Joe Johnson + more athleticism? We know that the boys from Kansas, Julian Wright and Brandon Rush, are going to be solid pros. Richard Roby was already projected as a 1st rounder this past year and could improve his status.

Really, this draft year is going to be CRAZY exciting, and with the Knicks pick, I expect that we'll be sitting pretty with our choice of big man prospects. It is markedly NOT a big-deprived year.


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## SausageKingofChicago

Little does that girl ( pcitured with Greg Oden ) know but.... she will likely have to wear orthopaedic underwear for the rest of her life 

This thread should be stickied by the way 

Mod?


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## johnston797

OK - Larry Brown coached USA team beat by 20 by Puerto Rico.

Then - Coack K and the US crush Puerto Rico.

So are the Knicks better off or worse off than the US now that Brown is gone?

I can say he at least gave some effort to the US, unlike the Knicks.

Should be interesting. IT and a lot of last chance guys with talent.


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## Showtyme

johnston797 said:


> OK - Larry Brown coached USA team beat by 20 by Puerto Rico.
> 
> Then - Coack K and the US crush Puerto Rico.
> 
> So are the Knicks better off or worse off than the US now that Brown is gone?
> 
> I can say he at least gave some effort to the US, unlike the Knicks.
> 
> Should be interesting. IT and a lot of last chance guys with talent.


Also, it means that Coach K is a better coach than Larry Brown?

Or, does it mean that this team is a better put-together team than the last team?

Or, it could even mean that Puerto Rico got worse.

All I know: IT coaching record on a Finals-quality Pacer team: 131-115, with a 5-10 playoff record from 2000-2002.

So we'll just see how this goes.


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## The ROY

For some ODD reason, I think Spencer Hawes will be a Bulls next season. Don't ask me why, I just feel it.

1 of Oden, Noah or Durant will wind up in Atlanta.


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## different_13

Heh, I doubt the Hawks get the number one pick. Noah would be forced to play center there, but I spose he can manage if he puts on a lil more muscle (still be very Tysonesque).

Imagine the Atlanta D with Noah, Shelden Williams and Josh Smith!!
Block Party!

Obviously Oden is best for anyone, but about Noah - would Chicago take him (say he's available at 4 or so) despite his offence being limited (if he doesn't improve).
As I see him as a bit of a Tyson clone (but better).

Obviously, with awesome defence like his, that just toughens up the Bulls even more (he'd be a prime contender for the starting PF slot, IMO).


I still don't like Kevin Durant till he puts on about 30 pounds of muscle. 200 at 6'10 is terrible. Plus it'd mean Deng or Noci is gone (probably Deng, because he has more trade value, and their skills will be similar).

I think Josh McRoberts would be a decent (and quite realistic, I don't think the Knicks are gonna deserve a top 5 pick this season ((unless the Bulls are lucky in the lottery)) pick.
Seems to be developing into a solid offensive threat. D ain't anything special though.
I remember watching him play a few times last season, he seemed to give less effort on D, knowing SHelden had his back. This season should see him improve his man to man defence out of necessity.


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## The ROY

THIS THREAD NEEDS TO BE STICKIED!

Like I said in the other thread...

The magic number is 35

Anything under 35 is a top 10 pick....

Anything around 40-41 is still in the lotto, but somewhere around 13-14....

Of course this could change, but looking at the standings from last year, this is how it panned out.....


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## The ROY

different_13 said:


> Heh, I doubt the Hawks get the number one pick. Noah would be forced to play center there, but I spose he can manage if he puts on a lil more muscle (still be very Tysonesque).
> 
> Imagine the Atlanta D with Noah, Shelden Williams and Josh Smith!!
> Block Party!
> 
> Obviously Oden is best for anyone, but about Noah - would Chicago take him (say he's available at 4 or so) despite his offence being limited (if he doesn't improve).
> As I see him as a bit of a Tyson clone (but better).
> 
> Obviously, with awesome defence like his, that just toughens up the Bulls even more (he'd be a prime contender for the starting PF slot, IMO).
> 
> 
> I still don't like Kevin Durant till he puts on about 30 pounds of muscle. 200 at 6'10 is terrible. Plus it'd mean Deng or Noci is gone (probably Deng, because he has more trade value, and their skills will be similar).
> 
> I think Josh McRoberts would be a decent (and quite realistic, I don't think the Knicks are gonna deserve a top 5 pick this season ((unless the Bulls are lucky in the lottery)) pick.
> Seems to be developing into a solid offensive threat. D ain't anything special though.
> I remember watching him play a few times last season, he seemed to give less effort on D, knowing SHelden had his back. This season should see him improve his man to man defence out of necessity.


Kevin Durant is a phenom......him and deng aren't very similar at all though.....

I'd take him over anyone on this team not named Tyrus...


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## SausageKingofChicago

For some reason the Mods seem reluctant to sticky this despite repeated requests to do so


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## TomBoerwinkle#1

uh, ok. stickied.


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## ViciousFlogging

I'll sticky it and it'll act as our running 07 draft speculation/news thread. Hopefully no one objects.


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## ViciousFlogging

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> uh, ok. stickied.


dammit Boerwinkle. you're just too fast.


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## The ROY

ViciousFlogging said:


> I'll sticky it and it'll act as our running 07 draft speculation/news thread. Hopefully no one objects.


good idea...


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## McBulls

There seems to be sentiment that the Knicks might be a better team this year than last. But I think it's more probable that they will be worse.

-- As bad as Larry Brown was last year, IT will not be as good a coach. That means, amoung other things, that the Knicks will be even worse on defense this year than they were last year. Proof of that is that Malik Rose's minutes will probably be drastically cut, even though he's one of the few players capable of quality defense.

-- The most significant upgrades on this year's team are the addition of Jeffries and the presense of Steve Francis for the entire year. Neither player will make much difference in my opinion; primarily because there are other players at least as good as they are who are competing for their minutes. At best they add depth.

-- The Knicks are significantly weaker on the front line. They went into serious decline last year after Antonio Davis was traded away. He has not been replaced, and they did not resign Butler. That leaves them depending on Curry (who I bet a donut is so out of shape he'll have to be carried to the floor), Jerome James and Mo Taylor (probably traded by the deadline) for interior defense. I guess Frye can help with rebounding, but he can't block out opposing mastadons. That means lots of layups by opposing big men and driving guards. Jeffries can't guard everyone.

-- The rookies will probably add nothing.

-- Frye and Robinson are in for a surprise. The second year in the NBA is usually a tough one, and a continuation of the end of the previous year. Opposing teams now have them well scouted and know exactly how to defend their best moves and how to take advantage of their defensive weaknesses. Don't look for these guys to carry the team any more than the Bulls could look to Deng and Gordon last year -- and Deng & Gordon are a lot better players than Frye and Robinson.

-- The Knicks have too many veteran misfits and malcontents whose bad habits and social pathology will emerge in full flower the first time the team goes into a slump. Look for Marbury to announce that from now on he will play "his way" sometime after the first of the year.

So after all that, I guess I should make a prediction : 
The Knicks will win fewer than 25 games. 
Presumably that will result in a very good draft pick for the Bulls.


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## The ROY

The Good :

The team now feels like they have something to prove. They won't zone out Zeke like they did Larry, they'll play for him. He brought them ALL their so I'm sure he'll make them FEEL like they owe him LOL.

Frye will only get better, especially since he will play ALOT.

Balkman will do the dirty work for that team, but if JYD couldn't get them wins with his rugged play, can a ROOK who wasn't even on the radar?

David Lee should benefit from Zeke being coach also. He plays hard, rebounds, defends and can score. I'd look for him to play the majority of back-up minutes to Frye and they'll definintely small-ball at times with him at the C, Zeke's itching to be the suns east.

The Bad :

The team still hates Marbury

Francis is on the decline and at this point, I don't know what he adds to their team besides depth.

Eddy Curry doesn't want to be the #1 option Zeke wants him to be, instead he wants to be a good "#2" option. SMH

Zeke's not a very good coach.

Season RESULT :

If they're not atleast .500 by the deadline, Zeke is gonna move some bodies. If their atleast .500 by the deadline, Zeke is gonna move some bodies. At the end of the day, they won't win 35 games and we will get a TOP 10 pick from NY.


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## SausageKingofChicago

Its not hard 

The only chance for the Knicks to be team that challenges for the playoffs is if they outscore their opponents 

There is no question they have the scorers

But to outscore your opponents you actually have to share the ball and on this Knicks team with the ball being in Marbury and Francis's hands the majority of the time ...can you imagine how Jamal, Nate Robinson , Jalen Rose and Quentin Richardson are going to be when they finally touch the rock

This team will have it moments but by and large they will be easily covered on offense and they won't play a lick of defense 

They have nothing . Nothing . NOTHING upfront by way of rebounding and interior defense . I predict they will be toward the bottom in defensive rebounding and points scored in the paint in the league but surprisingly OK on offensive rebounding stats

In short , this team has real talent but is way WAY ill disclipined and dysfunctional to be truly productive . 

They are doomed to underachieve and will struggle to break 35 wins

I don't think they will


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## LegoHat

McBulls said:


> -- The Knicks are significantly weaker on the front line. They went into serious decline last year after Antonio Davis was traded away. He has not been replaced, and they did not resign Butler. That leaves them depending on Curry (who I bet a donut is so out of shape he'll have to be carried to the floor), *Jerome James and Mo Taylor (probably traded by the deadline)* for interior defense. I guess Frye can help with rebounding, but he can't block out opposing mastadons. That means lots of layups by opposing big men and driving guards. Jeffries can't guard everyone.


If Isiah can trade away Jerome's horrible contract, I'll be the first one to congratulate him on some excellent GM'ing. I just don't see any team in the NBA willing to trade anything for one of, if not the biggest underachiever in the league.


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## McBulls

LegoHat said:


> If Isiah can trade away Jerome's horrible contract, I'll be the first one to congratulate him on some excellent GM'ing. I just don't see any team in the NBA willing to trade anything for one of, if not the biggest underachiever in the league.


I agree that the Knicks are stuck with James for the next few years. But Mo Taylor will probably be dealt. By the trading deadline it will be obvious the Knicks need help up front. If IT is still in charge (and he might not be) he'll try to trade both Tayor (K-Mart?) and Rose (Chris Webber? if Philly implodes) to stop the inside bleeding.


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## Hustle

I don't like it but I do think the Knicks will be a little better.

-Frye will get the minutes he deserves, he was their best big last year. Frye not getting starter minutes last year was one of Brown's many mistakes. 

-Jeffries and Balkman will help the teams chemistry by not needing the ball and playing d. Q and Jalen minutes reduced.

-Francis will start over Marbury.

I think this will outweight the loses of Davis and Butler, still at best this team wins 32 games, not enough d or rebounding to compete for the playoffs. I think their lineup will shake out to be

Frye/Lee/MRose
Jeffries/Rose/Balkman/Udoka
Curry/Taylor/James
Crawford/Robinson/Q
Francis/Marbury/Collins

I've been saying it since before he cracked the top 10 in the mock drafts(middle of last season), Collins is going to be a bust, he will not be a player in the league. Don't know who Udoka is but I'm guessing he doesn't make the team barring trade.


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## NDAVE01

Hey all,

I've already done some extensive "internet" scouting for next years draft and here is my top four as to how it relates to the Bulls (I think this is the draft that they must find their future center).

1. Greg Oden - Abosolute physical beast. Most impressive physical presence since Shaq. Will immediately be a great defensive presence, rebounder, and finisher once he gets to the league. Very unrefined offensive game. Has a long ways to go as far as being a focal point of an offense in the post. Will need to be set up for a lot of his points. Seems like a good kid, but I don't see a killer instinct, yet.

2. Spencer Hawes - If it wasn't for Greg Oden, this kid would be getting a lot more hype. When it's all said and done I think he will be a top 5 pick as opposed to his current draft projections on nbadraft and draftexpress. Unbelievably advanced offensive game for his age. Has many smooth moves in the post and can read the defense and consistently make the correct pass out of double teams. Great feel for the game. One scout (can't remember his name) said he had the best offense of any bigman since he began scouting 25 years ago. I've read about Bill Walton and Kevin McHale comparisons from respected people. Athleticiscm is underated as he tested out as 7th best athlete at Nike camp. Has filled out quite a bit recently as reports have him now at 250, wheras he weighed in at 215 at Nike camp a year ago. Very good rebounder. Great hands. Very competitive. True 7 footer (apparently measured out close to 7'1" with shoes)I don't see him being a great defensive presence due to his good, but not great athletic ability and relatively average wingspan of 7'1".

3. Joakim Noah - I think most of us have a pretty good feel for his game. I don't like his frame, but if he measures out long enough (reportedly is 7'1" with 7'4" wingspan) I think he could play center. 

4. Hasheem Thabeet - I saw this guy play a couple games. He is incredibly long. I predict that he will have a better standing reach than Saer Sene. Incredible defensive presence. Offensive game is very raw, although I did see him hit a couple fadeaway jumpers. Very good leaper and excellent agility, however looked slow running up and down the court(it could have been his running style as he looked somewhat awkward). At one point when Gerald Henderson was going off on his team, they put Thabeet on him and he stayed with on the couple drives Gerald attempted; very impressive lateral quickness. Overall, I think he is a wildcard as he could be great, but I could also see him being a bust.

Well that's it for now.


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## Hustle

Nice post

I'd put McRoberts in there at 5. Hasheem based soley on here say(but from Calhoun who has a history of being right) sounds like a great prospect. Haven't seen Durant, but many on the board praise him as well, I'm assuming you just didn't see the Bulls drafting him, which I would agree with at this point.


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## NDAVE01

Hustle, 
I think Durant will be a top 5 pick, possibly top 3. He sounds like a very intruiging talent, but I don't see the Bulls taking him. I see him as a pure three, which is probably where the Bulls currenly have the most talent. More importantly, I don't think he has the mental makeup that paxson is looking for. From reports I've read, he takes a lot a plays off, especially on defense. 

McRoberts would probably have been #5 on my list. It will be interesting to see how he performs being "the man" at Duke. In my eyes, a lot will depend if he measures out big enougth to play 5.

Other people in consideration for #5 on my list would be Tiago Splitter, Ante Tomic, Alexis Ajinca, and Yi Jianlian.


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## Hustle

NDAVE01 said:


> Hustle,
> I think Durant will be a top 5 pick, possibly top 3. He sounds like a very intruiging talent, but I don't see the Bulls taking him. I see him as a pure three, which is probably where the Bulls currenly have the most talent. More importantly, I don't think he has the mental makeup that paxson is looking for. From reports I've read, he takes a lot a plays off, especially on defense.
> 
> McRoberts would probably have been #5 on my list. It will be interesting to see how he performs being "the man" at Duke. In my eyes, a lot will depend if he measures out big enougth to play 5.
> 
> Other people in consideration for #5 on my list would be Tiago Splitter, Ante Tomic, Alexis Ajinca, and Yi Jianlian.


Splitter may be a servicable big, but top 5, I don't see it, how is he 3rd on draftexpress this year and 7th in last years draft? I saw Jianlian play against the USA, but really didn't get a feel for him, next game vs. China I want to pay more attention to him.

Do Tomic or Ajinca play on olympic squads?

Brandon Wright is another guy who I feel could be a top 5 talent. Wow draftexpress with Hansbrough over Hawes, never thought I'd say it but nbadraft.net's mock is 100X better.


----------



## NDAVE01

I guess my list is more of a rating of players that possibly could play center(and how they would fit with the Bulls). As far as prospects, Brandon Wright would definitely be higher than some of the players I've listed, but I see him only as a 4, and his skills seem to duplicate what Tyrus already brings to the table. However, I don't think that the Bulls should only consider drafting a center next year. For example, if both Splitter and Wright are available, and Wright is considered a better talent by the Bulls brass then they should take him and figure out the 5 spot later, probably through a trade.


----------



## Hustle

I'd prefer to get a guy that could play center, but if Wright or anyone ends up being a allstar lock at the PF spot don't think we could pass him up. Brown will likely be gone, Sweets will be a FA, because of thier youth I think we could get away with having both TT and Wright for a year, but eventually one of those 2, Nocioni, or Deng would have to go.


----------



## NDAVE01

I edited my post, before I saw your reply. I think we basically feel the same way.


----------



## The ROY

NDAVE01 said:


> Hustle,
> I think Durant will be a top 5 pick, possibly top 3. He sounds like a very intruiging talent, but I don't see the Bulls taking him. I see him as a pure three, which is probably where the Bulls currenly have the most talent. More importantly, I don't think he has the mental makeup that paxson is looking for. From reports I've read, he takes a lot a plays off, especially on defense.
> 
> McRoberts would probably have been #5 on my list. It will be interesting to see how he performs being "the man" at Duke. In my eyes, a lot will depend if he measures out big enougth to play 5.
> 
> Other people in consideration for #5 on my list would be Tiago Splitter, Ante Tomic, Alexis Ajinca, and Yi Jianlian.


Nobodies perfect coming out of H.S.

If there was no Oden, Durant woulda been the top pick for the last few seasons also. Dude is an incredible talent. In his case, you don't draft for need...he's too talented to pass up on if you have to chance to get him.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

I personally will be keeping a very close eye on UConn and Washington this upcoming season to get a feel for Thabert and Hawes

Georgetown too to check Hibbert's progress

I haven't given up on Kansas's pair of Sasha Kaun and CJ Giles , both of whom have really fallen off the radar in College hoop circles

McRoberts is really interesting. There are aspects of his game that remind me of a young Christian Laetner. L8 was a very good passer who never quite found his ideal situation in the pros even though he did put up some big numbers for several years. He was probably best suited to a high post /pick and roll type offense . His interior defense was good enough without being dominant where he played more with positional smarts more than athleticism and he was cocky and fearless on both sides of the ball. McRoberts showed all these traits last season at Duke . I really liked how he was absolutely fearless and purposeful in taking the ball in strong to attack the rim from the high post. Power dribble and kaboom . He certainly has a size and skillset that would fit the make up of this Bulls team and I don't think he has to dominate as a defender at this level with who he would have playing inside him and on the perimeter . What he would need to do is bring high post and low post passing skills , pick and roll offense , a few of his own post moves and an absolute commitment to team defense. If he could bring this and give us reliable output upfront then hey he would have done his job


----------



## ViciousFlogging

SausageKingofChicago said:


> McRoberts is really interesting. There are aspects of his game that remind me of a young Christian Laetner. L8 was a very good passer who never quite found his ideal situation in the pros even though he did put up some big numbers for several years. He was probably best suited to a high post /pick and roll type offense . His interior defense was good enough without being dominant where he played more with positional smarts more than athleticism and he was cocky and fearless on both sides of the ball. McRoberts showed all these traits last season at Duke . I really liked how he was absolutely fearless and purposeful in taking the ball in strong to attack the rim from the high post. Power dribble and kaboom . He certainly has a size and skillset that would fit the make up of this Bulls team and I don't think he has to dominate as a defender at this level with who he would have playing inside him and on the perimeter . What he would need to do is bring high post and low post passing skills , pick and roll offense , a few of his own post moves and an absolute commitment to team defense. If he could bring this and give us reliable output upfront then hey he would have done his job


agreed. Even though I'm sick of Duke being featured in 95% of nationally televised college basketball, I want to see what McRoberts looks like when he's the first option on offense. He was able to sort of catch the other team napping at times last year when they were busy chasing JJ around and keeping Shelden off the block, so I'm wondering whether his aggressive slashes to the bucket will be as effective when other teams are watching out for it. If he still scores efficiently and keeps improving his all around game, he'd be a fine candidate for our draft pick if it's mid-lottery (as I expect it will be).


----------



## The ROY

McRoberts is alot more WEBBER-ish than he is LATTENER-ish


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

The ROY said:


> McRoberts is alot more WEBBER-ish than he is LATTENER-ish


Have to disagree .

A young Chris Webber was a phenomenal low post player..his ability to beat defenders with his footwork and agility in the post was beautiful

And yeah he could pass like nobody's business and he had this amazing combination of power and finesse.

Talent wise he really was one of the most complete big men I've seen up until 3 or 4 years ago

Could be a bit lazy on the offensive end and his biggest shortcomning was probably focus..which happens to a lot of super talented guys when the game comes too easy to them


----------



## Showtyme

I like McRoberts, but I'd rather have Noah and possibly even Splitter.

I think Hibbert is an important player to watch. His size is intense, and if guys like Diop and Sene can go in the top 10, then a guy like Hibbert should easily be a lottery pick. He's a full 7'2", explosive, and while very very raw, he's an instinctive shot-blocker and has a mature body. I am hoping that he can come in and be a Ben Wallace replacement down the line. If Tyrus Thomas can step into the full-time PF role, then in the long-term, we've got 6 pretty dang talented full-time guys (Hinrich, Deng, Gordon, Noch, TT, Hibbert) and 3 rotation bench guys (Thabo, Duhon, Big Ben).

If we have a higher pick, of course you take the best talent, but if the Knicks end up surprising people and we end up with a #7ish pick, and Oden, Noah and McRoberts are all gone, I might look at Hibbert before I look at Hawes, not on the basis of talent but on the basis of need.


----------



## johnston797

Showtyme said:


> I think Hibbert is an important player to watch. His size is intense, and if guys like Diop and Sene can go in the top 10, then a guy like Hibbert should easily be a lottery pick. He's a full 7'2", explosive, and while very very raw, he's an instinctive shot-blocker and has a mature body.


Explosive, instinctive and mature?

Did we see the same guy? This guy looked like a sloth to me. 

He is nothing like Diop or Sene IMHO.


----------



## Showtyme

johnston797 said:


> Explosive, instinctive and mature?
> 
> Did we see the same guy? This guy looked like a sloth to me.
> 
> He is nothing like Diop or Sene IMHO.


I only watched him during the tournament, but he looked pretty mobile and beastly for a 7'2" guy.

He's not quite as explosive as Sene, who I have yet to actually see, but he definitely looked as quick as I saw Diop ever move.

And "mature" was with respect to his body, not his game. Thus "mature body".


----------



## The ROY

SausageKingofChicago said:


> Have to disagree .
> 
> A young Chris Webber was a phenomenal low post player..his ability to beat defenders with his footwork and agility in the post was beautiful
> 
> And yeah he could pass like nobody's business and he had this amazing combination of power and finesse.
> 
> Talent wise he really was one of the most complete big men I've seen up until 3 or 4 years ago
> 
> Could be a bit lazy on the offensive end and his biggest shortcomning was probably focus..which happens to a lot of super talented guys when the game comes too easy to them


Mcroberts is a sick passer, very good ball handler and uses nothing but power when he goes up over a defender...

that doesn't sound anything like lattener to me


----------



## The ROY

Showtyme said:


> I only watched him during the tournament, but he looked pretty mobile and beastly for a 7'2" guy.
> 
> He's not quite as explosive as Sene, who I have yet to actually see, but he definitely looked as quick as I saw Diop ever move.


Hibbert is ok, but he's one of those guys that you say "Only if he played with more aggression he could be" blah blah...

He has the potential to be a top 10 pick if he has a big year.

When does college bball start again?


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

The ROY said:


> Mcroberts is a sick passer, very good ball handler and uses nothing but power when he goes up over a defender...
> 
> that doesn't sound anything like lattener to me


You remember old L8 not young L8 who had some nice post game . More power dribble stuff as opposed to being real back em down beat em down with bum out and fancy feet ..the classic low post offensive game that Webber had

I do agree that McRoberts exhibits more in your face power than young L8 but young L8 still talk it in hard and had that cocky in your face attitude

I didn't mean to call them exactly similar ..just traces of similarity is more what I meant 

To me CWebb is a completely different type of classic back/bum to the basket low post big man moreso than a high post power dribble / passer - cutter than what L8 was and what McRoberts has shown some looks toward


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1

Good stuff from NDAVE01.

Belated welcome to the boards, and keep on posting!


----------



## NDAVE01

Thanks TomB,

Another thing that I've been thinking about lately is that this next draft could be a good opportunity to consolidate talent if the Knicks do better than we hope. My guess is that if we fall past 5 or 6, Paxson might not be able to get a center that he really likes. Instead of just drafting the BPA, I think it would be worth trading some of our non-core assets (Duhon, Krypaha, Sweetney?, 2008 pick, capspace?, 2nd rounders, etc.) to move up to get the guy paxson covets. While I consider moving up to get Oden unrealistic, I would think moving from say #8 to #4 very doable since it seems this is going to be a draft with talent deep in the lottery. In the end, we are not going to be able to spend much money on our non-core players so we might as well get something for them before they leave for more money.


----------



## LegoHat

If we end up with something like the 8th pick, I would seriously consider Noah's sidekick in Florida, Al Horford. To me he looks like a cross between a young Karl Malone and Dwight Howard, those are very lofty expectations, but it's just a feeling I have with him. He has seriously wide shoulders and is already very strong, plus he's got a good post game and a developing jump shot. He has everything required to be a great big man in the league, and I think in a few years he will be one. People focused _way_ too much on Noah in the Tourney, and while he was spectacular, it was Al Horford who allowed him to contest almost every shot with his physical presence in the post. 

I think he'll be great, and while I don't see him as a full time center, we should look very seriously at him when the time comes. I know I'll be watching Florida very closely.


----------



## Hustle

LegoHat said:


> If we end up with something like the 8th pick, I would seriously consider Noah's sidekick in Florida, Al Horford. To me he looks like a cross between a young Karl Malone and Dwight Howard, those are very lofty expectations, but it's just a feeling I have with him. He has seriously wide shoulders and is already very strong, plus he's got a good post game and a developing jump shot. He has everything required to be a great big man in the league, and I think in a few years he will be one. People focused _way_ too much on Noah in the Tourney, and while he was spectacular, it was Al Horford who allowed him to contest almost every shot with his physical presence in the post.
> 
> I think he'll be great, and while I don't see him as a full time center, we should look very seriously at him when the time comes. I know I'll be watching Florida very closely.


Horford is a little shorter than those guys, and will not be able to play center in the league. He's listed a 6'9 and 6'10 depending on where you look, but my guess is 6'9 is more accurate. The kid definitly has skills though, and a body(but not as big as those guys). 

I don't really see him being a star player, I think at best something like a PJ Brown level talent(not a comparision), which is none to shabby but I'm hoping for a guy who is likely or at least more likely to be a star. I'm with NDAVE on this one, if we end up mid-late lottery a consolidation would be nice. I don't see the draft as deep as apparently others do, I expect that around 4 and 8 you are going to see a significant drop off in talent.


----------



## frank9007

This will be funny when the Knicks are not in the lottery next season.

Hopefully tho this thread doesn't get locked when that happens.

I will have a massive bump a thread marathon next year.

I will be delivering crow like i mad man.


----------



## MRedd22

frank9007 said:


> This will be funny when the Knicks are not in the lottery next season.
> 
> Hopefully tho this thread doesn't get locked when that happens.
> 
> I will have a massive bump a thread marathon next year.
> 
> I will be delivering crow like i mad man.




Personal attacks are not allowed. If you think you were baited, see my reply below. -S


----------



## The ROY

LegoHat said:


> If we end up with something like the 8th pick, I would seriously consider Noah's sidekick in Florida, Al Horford. To me he looks like a cross between a young Karl Malone and Dwight Howard, those are very lofty expectations, but it's just a feeling I have with him. He has seriously wide shoulders and is already very strong, plus he's got a good post game and a developing jump shot. He has everything required to be a great big man in the league, and I think in a few years he will be one. People focused _way_ too much on Noah in the Tourney, and while he was spectacular, it was Al Horford who allowed him to contest almost every shot with his physical presence in the post.
> 
> I think he'll be great, and while I don't see him as a full time center, we should look very seriously at him when the time comes. I know I'll be watching Florida very closely.


huh? Noah was the one manning the paint the majority of the tournament...most of his blocks weren't even weakside, they were just straight up DENIALS


----------



## The ROY

Hustle said:


> Horford is a little shorter than those guys, and will not be able to play center in the league. He's listed a 6'9 and 6'10 depending on where you look, but my guess is 6'9 is more accurate. The kid definitly has skills though, and a body(but not as big as those guys).
> 
> I don't really see him being a star player, I think at best something like a PJ Brown level talent(not a comparision), which is none to shabby but I'm hoping for a guy who is likely or at least more likely to be a star. I'm with NDAVE on this one, if we end up mid-late lottery a consolidation would be nice. I don't see the draft as deep as apparently others do, I expect that around 4 and 8 you are going to see a significant drop off in talent.


He's a good young prospect...but definintely isn't special in ANY way..

I can't seem him playing C in the nba either, ANYTIME


----------



## The ROY

frank9007 said:


> This will be funny when the Knicks are not in the lottery next season.


Please..there's no way ya'll won't be atleast one of the WORST 14 teams in the nba next year.


----------



## Showtyme

frank9007 said:


> This will be funny when the Knicks are not in the lottery next season.
> 
> Hopefully tho this thread doesn't get locked when that happens.
> 
> I will have a massive bump a thread marathon next year.
> 
> I will be delivering crow like i mad man.


The thread won't be locked. You'll just be edited, every word, in violation of the site guidelines.



BBB.net TERMS of SERVICE said:


> Harassment – Harassment is defined when a member attacks, disrespects and degrades another member anywhere on the board at any time. Personal attacks are never welcome and are never tolerated. The general nature of sports, fans will defend their favorite player and or team, but never will terms as “stupid, homer, idiot, moron” and the like ever be tolerated. *Continual harassment and or “baiting” of a member of the community, they’re favorite team or player and or members of the staff will also result in the above mentioned actions.* Editing over a mod is also something that is not welcomed and swift action will be taken of said member.
> 
> Spamming & Solicitation - *Multiple posting of identical or similar posts in one or more of our forums constitutes spamming.* Posting multiple links to other “identical” sites or links to “join” other similar sires without prior approval also constitutes as spam and will be subjected to the removal of posting privileges.


We like seeing lots of people stop by our forum, and you are entiteld to your honest opinion, but the guidelines will not be relaxed.

I post this publicly for the benefit of others that might be reading this, as an important reminder.


----------



## Hustle

frank9007 said:


> This will be funny when the Knicks are not in the lottery next season.
> 
> Hopefully tho this thread doesn't get locked when that happens.
> 
> I will have a massive bump a thread marathon next year.
> 
> I will be delivering crow like i mad man.


How can you possibly deliver as much crow as we could've delivered last year? Looks like we outclassed you man.


----------



## Cyanobacteria

NDAVE01 said:


> Thanks TomB,
> 
> Another thing that I've been thinking about lately is that this next draft could be a good opportunity to consolidate talent if the Knicks do better than we hope. My guess is that if we fall past 5 or 6, Paxson might not be able to get a center that he really likes. Instead of just drafting the BPA, I think it would be worth trading some of our non-core assets (Duhon, Krypaha, Sweetney?, 2008 pick, capspace?, 2nd rounders, etc.) to move up to get the guy paxson covets. While I consider moving up to get Oden unrealistic, I would think moving from say #8 to #4 very doable since it seems this is going to be a draft with talent deep in the lottery. In the end, we are not going to be able to spend much money on our non-core players so we might as well get something for them before they leave for more money.



I was quite impressed with Pax's utilization of assets to move up and down this year in the draft to get who he wanted and where he wanted to get them. I fully expect a repeat performance next year as well.


----------



## frank9007

Showtyme said:


> The thread won't be locked. You'll just be edited, every word, in violation of the site guidelines.
> 
> 
> 
> We like seeing lots of people stop by our forum, and you are entiteld to your honest opinion, but the guidelines will not be relaxed.
> 
> I post this publicly for the benefit of others that might be reading this, as an important reminder.


There is no baiting going around here.

If anything this thread is the one thats baitfull.

I saw this thread and i expressed my opinion.

If you don't agree with it, then don't agree with it.

I din't insult, bait or attack anyone.

So please don't try to act like i'm doing doing anything wrong here.


----------



## Showtyme

frank9007 said:


> There is no baiting going around here.
> 
> If anything this thread is the one thats baitfull.
> 
> I saw this thread and i expressed my opinion.
> 
> If you don't agree with it, then don't agree with it.
> 
> I din't insult, bait or attack anyone.
> 
> So please don't try to act like i'm doing doing anything wrong here.


You expressed your opinion, and I did not edit your post. My response was only with regards to your perceived future intention, and not in a way to point the finger at you, but as a generally friendly reminder from your local mod.

The More You Know .... (cue NBC star and public service announcement music)

Anyway. Back to the topic... here's some tidbits from Chad Ford:



> 7. Georgetown
> What we like: Roy Hibbert has slimmed down to be an imposing center. Jeff Green is the most versatile and maybe most coveted player in the Big East. John Thompson III's system is a winner.


Did he slim down, really? That's interesting. Ford mentions Aaron Gray as a "monster in the paint", though, so superlatives don't offer much distinction right now. But I like the fact that Hibbert may have slimmed down. It wasn't even his NBA contract year yet, although it's sort of like it.



> 3. North Carolina
> What we like: They have the best low-post power player in college in Tyler Hansbrough and they added arguably one of the top two recruiting classes in the country.


True that, Double True.



> 5. LSU
> What we like: Glen Davis looked like a slimmed-down Corliss Williamson at the Nike Camp in Indianapolis. He finally looked comfortable in his own skin around the basket after dropping 20-plus pounds. The Tigers lost Tyrus Thomas and Darrel Mitchell off the Final Four team, but the rest of the crew is back.
> 
> What concerns us: Mitchell was a clutch shooter last season. He was also a solid leader at the point. Not sure if Tack Minor can do that for the Tigers, but he must for them not to slip.


Glen Davis is a guy to keep an eye on. I can't remember the last great low-post player to come out of the college ranks (I think the last guy that comes to mind is Elton Brand, strange enough, although guys like Boozer and Andrew Bogut have been pretty decent. Bogut, especially, looks like one of the more effective guys in the paint, although more of a wily slippery type than a power-down type. Zach Randolph makes this list as well, probably right after Brand actually.

The guy I want to consider Glen Davis like is Sean May. And I think May is going to have a successful NBA career. It's something to consider.

Anyway. It'll be a fun year to watch the draft, but hopefully it'll be a more fun year to watch the Bulls go far.


----------



## McBulls

frank9007 said:


> There is no baiting going around here.
> 
> If anything this thread is the one thats baitfull.
> 
> I saw this thread and i expressed my opinion.
> 
> If you don't agree with it, then don't agree with it.
> 
> I din't insult, bait or attack anyone.
> 
> So please don't try to act like i'm doing doing anything wrong here.


I think your comment was appropriate. 

If the Knicks make the playoffs or finish with a better record than the Bulls next year many, if not most of the people who post on this board, including myself, will have a healthy portion of crow to eat.

But even if the odds were low that the Knicks would be bad next year, you can't blame us for hoping for a good choice in next year's draft while at the same time hoping our team does well.


----------



## truth

McBulls said:


> I think your comment was appropriate.
> 
> If the Knicks make the playoffs or finish with a better record than the Bulls next year many, if not most of the people who post on this board, including myself, will have a healthy portion of crow to eat.
> 
> But even if the odds were low that the Knicks would be bad next year, you can't blame us for hoping for a good choice in next year's draft while at the same time hoping our team does well.


When did a basketball forum become so sensitive??

You have 400 windy city yahoos revving up for the number 1 pick in the draft,and one knick fan comes along and doesnt join the Bulls pajama party and is forwarned for simply stating hes going to enjoy watching the euphoric Bulls fans eat a healthy dosage of crow...

This is a forum,is it not??


----------



## The ROY

When does college B-Ball season start?

I'm anxious to watch the newest possible Bull play.

And we all talk about that Ny pick.

What about those 2 2nd rounders next year? Those players should possibly be pretty good too.


----------



## BG7

Alright, think about this.....we sign Anderson Varejao to the MLE....draft Oden.

PG-Kirk Hinrich/Chris Duhon
SG-Ben Gordon/Thabo Sefolosha
SF-Andres Nocioni/Luol Deng
PF-Ben Wallace/Tyrus Thomas
C- Greg Oden/Anderson Varejao

anyone else smell dynasty?


----------



## LegoHat

sloth said:


> Alright, think about this.....we sign Anderson Varejao to the MLE....draft Oden.
> 
> PG-Kirk Hinrich/Chris Duhon
> SG-Ben Gordon/Thabo Sefolosha
> SF-Andres Nocioni/Luol Deng
> PF-Ben Wallace/Tyrus Thomas
> C- Greg Oden/Anderson Varejao
> 
> anyone else smell dynasty?


The MLE for Anderson? I think he'll go for a lot more.


----------



## Hustle

sloth said:


> Alright, think about this.....we sign Anderson Varejao to the MLE....draft Oden.
> 
> PG-Kirk Hinrich/Chris Duhon
> SG-Ben Gordon/Thabo Sefolosha
> SF-Andres Nocioni/Luol Deng
> PF-Ben Wallace/Tyrus Thomas
> C- Greg Oden/Anderson Varejao
> 
> anyone else smell dynasty?


Oden= Dynasty, Varejao would be nice


----------



## BG7

LegoHat said:


> The MLE for Anderson? I think he'll go for a lot more.


After we get Oden, Cleveland decides they can't compete anymore and just let Varejao go to us. Its still unclear on whether we get Lebron James from them, but I'm pretty sure we bulk up Deng's contract, and ship him out for Lebron.

PG-Kirk Hinrich/Chris Duhon
SG-Ben Gordon/Thabo Sefolosha
SF-Lebron James/Andres Nocioini
PF-Ben Wallace/Tyrus Thomas
C- Greg Oden/Anderson Varejao

Do I smell 10 championships?


----------



## The ROY

There's no possible way we'll land the first pick. Why, u say? Simple.

Near the end of the season, those teams that won't be competing for a playoff spot will tank purposely (Atlanta, Portland, etc.) for those high draft slots. While NY on the other hand, has no reason to tank seeing as how we're taking their pick. So even if they aren't in contention for a playoff spot, Zeke will make them play hard EVERY game just to make sure they aren't the worst team in the league record-wise. If they aren't .500 by the break, he DEFININTELY will make a move or two. 35 wins for the squad they have now seems very do-able so IMO, it looks like we'll be drafting in the 5-14 range.

TOO many things would have to go right for us to land Oden, Durant or Noah.

Worst Case Scenario? We end up with one of these guys:

Spencer Hawes (C)
Hasheem Thabeet (C)
Tiago Splitter (PF/C)
Yi Jianlian (PF/C)


----------



## McBulls

The ROY said:


> There's no possible way we'll land the first pick. Why, u say? Simple.
> 
> Near the end of the season, those teams that won't be competing for a playoff spot will tank purposely (Atlanta, Portland, etc.) for those high draft slots. While NY on the other hand, has no reason to tank seeing as how we're taking their pick. So even if they aren't in contention for a playoff spot, Zeke will make them play hard EVERY game just to make sure they aren't the worst team in the league record-wise. If they aren't .500 by the break, he DEFININTELY will make a move or two. 35 wins for the squad they have now seems very do-able so IMO, it looks like we'll be drafting in the 5-14 range.
> 
> TOO many things would have to go right for us to land Oden, Durant or Noah.


If the Knicks get off to a poor start (say because Curry reports to camp at a slim 320 lbs) Zeke will try to trade his two big expiring contracts for overpaid performers with long contracts who would improve the team's short term performance a bit. 

Problem is, I bet Dolan not only doesn't OK the trades, but finds a new coach and GM when Zeke has the temerity to ask. The new people will not have the same incentive to salvage the 06-07 season, but they very well might choose to put several of the NY stars in the doghouse and go with younger players and players with some jib as part of a general plan to turn the franchise around like Pax did when he took over in Chicago.

In that not-so-far-fetched senario, the Knicks could very well be languishing in the basement come April.

The surprise to me is that Dolan has not already fired Thomas based on last year's fiasco. My guess is he is shopping for new leadership at this very moment.


----------



## BG7

Hey, if the Knicks start off AWFUL, and Dolan fires Isiah, and starts a firesale, we should get in on the action. Like if we could get Curry for PJ Brown, I'd be thrilled. I'd be even more thrilled if we were able to get Renaldo Balkman or Channing Frye while taking Curry away from them.

Imagine this come playoff time

PG-Kirk Hinrich/Chris Duhon
SG-Ben Gordon/Thabo Sefolosha
SF-Andres Nocioni/Luol Deng
PF-Ben Wallace/Tyrus Thomas
C- Eddy Curry/Ben Wallace

next year

PG-Kirk Hinrich/Chris Duhon
SG-Ben Gordon/Thabo Sefolosha
SF-Andres Nocioni/Luol Deng
PF-Ben Wallace/Tyrus Thomas
C- Eddy Curry/Greg Oden

and beyond:

PG-Kirk Hinrich/Chris Duhon
SG-Ben Gordon/Thabo Sefolosha
SF-Andres Nocioni/Luol Deng
PF-Greg Oden/Tyrus THomas
C- Eddy Curry/Ben Wallace


----------



## The ROY

Stop smokin' that stuff man....


----------



## paxman

sloth said:


> Alright, think about this.....we sign Anderson Varejao to the MLE....draft Oden.
> 
> PG-Kirk Hinrich/Chris Duhon
> SG-Ben Gordon/Thabo Sefolosha
> SF-Andres Nocioni/Luol Deng
> PF-Ben Wallace/Tyrus Thomas
> C- Greg Oden/Anderson Varejao
> 
> anyone else smell dynasty?


this starting lineup's front court has zero low post moves


----------



## The ROY

paxman said:


> this starting lineup's front court has zero low post moves


Wouldn't matter....because the opposing team would NEVER, EVER score on that frontline LOL...well maybe on Anderson...but not the rest of em...

Tyrus & Greg are both developing their offensive games and both could be very good sooner than later....

P.S. Atlanta will wind up with Greg Oden....

C Oden / Pachulia
F M. Williams / S. Williams
F Smith
F Johnson / Childress
G Claxton / Stoudamire

They'd be headed in the right direction....


----------



## paxman

i just realized that an nba record is about to get shattered this season.
there is a healthy chance that under isiah, eddy curry is going to get 35-37 mpg.
5.9 fouls per game would break the record, right? 
now i'm not a curry hater at all, just found this to be something to look forward to
as I follow the new york pingpongs' upcoming season.


----------



## McBulls

paxman said:


> i just realized that an nba record is about to get shattered this season.
> there is a healthy chance that under isiah, eddy curry is going to get 35-37 mpg.
> 5.9 fouls per game would break the record, right?
> now i'm not a curry hater at all, just found this to be something to look forward to
> as I follow the new york pingpongs' upcoming season.


Remember, Curry has a heart condition. 37 min per game might just kill him; particularly if he's overweight and out of shape.


----------



## paxman

McBulls said:


> Remember, Curry has a heart condition. 37 min per game might just kill him; particularly if he's overweight and out of shape.


damn i forgot about that.
hope he lives a healthy long life.


----------



## McBulls

IT has just hired his own GM replacement (again).

link

link


----------



## BG7

Apparently Elton Brown, a training camp invitee, is kicking Eddy's *** in practice....


----------



## Hustle

> *Isiah Thomas mailed letters to his players in August suggesting that they arrive in New York after Labor Day for informal workouts, which is common for NBA teams.* Thomas' plan was to encourage his team to begin building camaraderie while removing the ugly memory of last season as soon as possible. In theory, it seemed like a great idea. *But on the day following the holiday, only four players, including Channing Frye and David Lee, bothered to show up for work*, according to a team source. The majority of the Knicks didn't arrive in town until last week. New York Daily News


How I love to revel in the Knicks misfortune.

Doesn't Zeke know these guys are busy :djparty:


----------



## rlucas4257

Oden would be a dream come true, but Thabeet would be a very good addition to the Bulls as well.


----------



## The ROY

rlucas4257 said:


> Oden would be a dream come true, but Thabeet would be a very good addition to the Bulls as well.


Thabeet & Tyrus would be a BEASTLY defensive frontline.


----------



## LegoHat

Roy Hibbert - Summer Growth Spurt 



> Georgetown junior center Roy Hibbert is poised to make the final jump from project to powerhouse.
> In a 2005 season defined by the quantum leaps of players like Florida's Joakim Noah and Pittsburgh's Aaron Gray, the Georgetown giant might not have been the poster boy for most improved. But he certainly belonged in the frame.
> The 7-foot-2 native of Adelphi, Md., doubled his freshman productivity during last year's regular season and then tripled it in the NCAA tournament, averaging 15.7 points, 10.0 points and 2.3 blocks during Georgetown's run to the Sweet 16.
> The return of Hibbert, fellow All-Big East forward Jeff Green and seasoned point guard Jonathan Wallace has the Hoyas ranked among the preseason top 10 by most publications. But even that lofty ranking doesn't do justice to one daunting fact: Hibbert has enjoyed another epic growth spurt this summer.
> "I think I've made a similar jump this offseason," Hibbert said recently. "I've trimmed down to about 270 pounds from 285, but I've added a lot more muscle. I'd guess I've lost 25 pounds or so of fat, and that's really increased my mobility and quickness."
> Hibbert put his more explosive game on display as a counselor at the prestigious Nike All-American Camp, where he and LSU's Glen Davis were the dominant players on hand. He shined in the Kenner League, averaging 26 points and 12 rebounds while leading his team to the league title.
> "I know it's just a summer league, but the big fella can ball," former Maryland star Lonny Baxter said after Hibbert torched his team for 32 points and 15 rebounds in the title game.
> Hibbert has added range and consistency to his baby hook. He now has a turnaround baseline jumper, a nasty tool for a man his size. And he even looks relatively comfortable putting the ball on the floor, evidenced by one play in the Kenner League that prompted an NBA scout to curse in awe.


----------



## Showtyme

LegoHat said:


> Roy Hibbert - Summer Growth Spurt


I've had Hibbert as a late-lottery pick in my mind for a long time. Watching him in the tournament last year won me over, and hearing about him working out this summer has been incredible.

Too bad Georgetown has no games against Ohio State. :biggrin:


----------



## Hustle

If all of that Roy Hibbert offseason stuff is true, he is a top 10 lock.


----------



## THEbigO

i see the knicks being much better this year. i think IT is going to let them go out and play and on any given night steve francis, marbury, or crawford could go off for 30 points. and channing frye is a very good player. dont count the knicks out so soon. they are very talented. if they can figure out how to play together for just a little bit they will be pretty good.

not trying to be "that guy" that puts the damper on all the fun. but dont get your hopes up yet. i mean odds are there pick is better than ours, but how much isnt YET decided.


----------



## The ROY

I wouldn't say he's a LOCK for the top 10...

But he's definintely not going past 20....

There are still questions about his drive and agression


----------



## LegoHat

Collegehoops.net's Top 100 College Players :

*1: Joakim Noah:* _Florida, JR, PF/C, 14.2 PPG, 7.1 RPG, 2.1 APG - 2006 Final Four M.O.P. passed up lottery spot to return_ 
*2: Tyler Hansbrough:* _UNC, SO, PF, 18.9 PPG, 7.8 RPG, 1.3 APG - 2006 Freshman of the Year could be 2007 Player of the Year_
*3: Glen Davis:* _LSU, JR, C, 18.6 PPG, 9.7 RPG, 1.4 APG - Spent summer getting in better shape, scary thought for SEC_
*4: Greg Oden:* _OSU, FR, C - Hyped recruit should make immediate impact.. When healthy_
*5: Nick Fazekas:* _Nevada, SR, PF, 21.8 PPG, 10.4 RPG, 2.1 APG - Two-time WAC Player of the Year looking to make it three_
*6: Ronald Steele:* _Alabama, JR, PG, 14.3 PPG, 3.7 RPG, 4.3 APG - Ready to become a national commodity_
*7: Kevin Durant:* _Texas, FR, SF - Lean swingman will lead new-look Longhorns_
*8: Aaron Gray:* _Pittsburgh, SR, C, 13.9 PPG, 10.5 RPG, 1.8 APG - Big man blossomed last year_ 
*9: Brandon Rush:* _Kansas, SO, SG, 13.5 PPG, 5.9 RPG, 2.0 APG - Athletic wing should challenge for Big 12 Player of the Year_
*10: Richard Roby:* _Colorado, JR, SG, 17.0 PPG, 5.5 RPG, 2.5 APG - Scoring guard will have plenty of chances to shine in Boulder_


----------



## LegoHat

Some pictures:

Greg Oden, damn!










Hasheem Thabeet:










And finally some pictures I thought were interesting, Roy Hibbert being tutored by Alonzo Mourning and Dikembe Mutombo last summer:


----------



## LegoHat

And another one, Hasheen Thabeet in the slam dunk competition during the University of Connecticut's First Night program. Pretty impressive for a 7'3 guy:


----------



## narek

LegoHat said:


> And another one, Hasheen Thabeet in the slam dunk competition during the University of Connecticut's First Night program. Pretty impressive for a 7'3 guy:


Wow. Just wow.


----------



## The ROY

He looks very AMARE ish in that pic


----------



## yodurk

Someone needs to check Greg Oden's birth certificate, the dude looks twice his age.


----------



## BG7

We might as well close this thread, Knicks are making the playoffs.


----------



## The ROY

Mebarak said:


> We might as well close this thread, Knicks are making the playoffs.


yeah, them playing INCREDIBLY hard during the preseason definintely changes things

:laugh:


----------



## Hustle

Mebarak said:


> We might as well close this thread, Knicks are making the playoffs.


Easy Sloth, they beat NJ w/o their two best players, and a bad Sixer team without their starting bigs. Plus it's preseason.


----------



## Hustle

double


----------



## yodurk

Ah, now here are the Knicks we know and love. Down by 28 points. 31 team turnovers. And it appears that they continue to use their expected rotation of players for the most part.


----------



## GB

> It wasn't so much the final score (113-89) or the fact they trailed by 34 points in the third quarter that was worrisome. It was the way they looked -- disorganized and sloppy. They turned the ball over 32 times compared to just 14 assists, and allowed Boston to shoot 49 percent as the Celtics rolled to a casual preseason victory.
> 
> Knicks coach Isiah Thomas, who must have felt he was watching some kind of 3D hologram of one of last season's games, tried to spin the awful performance into something of a teaching tool, and said he wasn't at all disappointed, almost as if he wanted it that way.
> 
> "We needed to try to play from behind," he said. "We needed to try to stay within our offense and execute. ... For me it was a good learning experience to see our team in a stressful situation and see how we react to it."
> 
> What he learned is that this team is still capable of bad defense and sloppy offense.


http://www.nj.com/knicks/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1161581421291580.xml&coll=1



> "He told me I'm going to have a year unlike any I've ever had," Curry said yesterday. "He told me he was going to put a lot on me, but at the same time he was going to put me in a position where I can't fail."
> 
> Preseason, as Stephon Marbury accurately points out, means nothing, and that's the warning sign in advance of everything you will read in this space. But in the Knicks' first three exhibition games, Curry has reason to believe Thomas, because no one has looked better so far.
> 
> Curry went into last night's game against the Celtics averaging 17.3 points and 12.5 rebounds per game, which are All-Star numbers when spread over 82 meaningful games.
> --
> With a full training camp under his belt, Curry has come out like a new player -- more aggressive, drawing fouls, snagging rebounds and walking around with a smile on his face again. Even if it is only October, the good news is that Eddy Curry is having fun again. At least, that's what he told his wife.
> 
> "I was telling her just the other day, I've got the love back," he said yesterday. "Last year I had to drag myself out of bed to go to practice. This year, I'm up an hour before practice and I can't wait to get to the gym."


http://www.nj.com/knicks/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/11614948153730.xml&coll=1


----------



## Hustle

GB said:


> http://www.nj.com/knicks/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1161581421291580.xml&coll=1
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.nj.com/knicks/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/11614948153730.xml&coll=1


where in the hell did that article get those numbers?

He's averaging 16 and 5.5.


----------



## yodurk

Not sure if anyone posted this, but the Knicks are apparently negotiating a buyout with Jalen Rose. I actually hate this from our standpoint...I'd much prefer to see them logjammed and giving Jalen entitlement minutes. In the long run that makes them a worse team. Dumping Rose means more minutes for David Lee, Q Richardson, Jeffries, and Balkman which is good for them. Rats.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/466329p-392387c.html



> Isiah working to get rid of Rose
> 
> The Knicks are in the process of negotiating a buyout with Jalen Rose, according to a source close to the veteran small forward. Rose was a no-show at yesterday's public practice at FDU-Teaneck. When asked about Rose's whereabouts, Isiah Thomas replied: "I would just say personal reasons at this time."


----------



## The ROY

Jalen or not, they're still gonna suck


----------



## McBulls

yodurk said:


> Not sure if anyone posted this, but the Knicks are apparently negotiating a buyout with Jalen Rose. I actually hate this from our standpoint...I'd much prefer to see them logjammed and giving Jalen entitlement minutes. In the long run that makes them a worse team. Dumping Rose means more minutes for David Lee, Q Richardson, Jeffries, and Balkman which is good for them. Rats.
> 
> http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/466329p-392387c.html


The final price for acquiring Balkman was several months of AD's services and $32 million (including tax).

I'm no Rose fan, but unless he's declined a lot he's still probably a better player than any of the guys you listed. The article suggests that he came to camp out of shape, which seems a bit out of character.

Here's a prediction : If Rose is picked up by another team, he will put up better numbers this season than Balkman, Jeffries or Lee.

This is simply Dolan making sure that there is no temptation to trade this large expiring contract for non-expiring contracts.


----------



## Philomath

THEbigO said:


> i see the knicks being much better this year. i think IT is going to let them go out and play and on any given night steve francis, marbury, or crawford could go off for 30 points.


I think the success of the Knicks will be roughly proportional to how much IT is able to avoid "letting them go out and play." I think they will be more up tempo, but they'll need to function as a unit more than last year. Does IT have a scheme and a framework for everyone to play within, and can he get buy in? Don't know, easier said than done. If so, as everyone says, there is talent there. Undisciplined and overpaid talent, but talent.


----------



## McBulls

Philomath said:


> I think the success of the Knicks will be roughly proportional to how much IT is able to avoid "letting them go out and play." I think they will be more up tempo, but they'll need to function as a unit more than last year. Does IT have a scheme and a framework for everyone to play within, and can he get buy in? Don't know, easier said than done. If so, as everyone says, there is talent there. Undisciplined and overpaid talent, but talent.


An NBA team that allows 138 points to be scored these days has serious problems with their defense. There's no indication that TT has a plan to fix the problems anytime soon. The Knicks have a tough schedule in November. The futility of trying to play competitive basketball in the NBA without playing defense will be there for all to see very soon.


----------



## Hustle

Anyone else think Rose will make his way to Denver?

I have to agree Rose is better than all of those guys. Jeffries is real close. Lee will be close but not at the 3, he is a 4 often times playing out of position. Balkman may be better than people expect but he still a middle of the pack rookie who will struggle at times. Nate Robinson is not a guy I would want in a rotation for any winning team, he is strictly entertainment value. Q is a big?, he really sucked last season, I know he's a better player but is he in the wrong situation.


----------



## yodurk

McBulls said:


> The final price for acquiring Balkman was several months of AD's services and $32 million (including tax).
> 
> I'm no Rose fan, but unless he's declined a lot he's still probably a better player than any of the guys you listed. The article suggests that he came to camp out of shape, which seems a bit out of character.
> 
> Here's a prediction : If Rose is picked up by another team, he will put up better numbers this season than Balkman, Jeffries or Lee.
> 
> This is simply Dolan making sure that there is no temptation to trade this large expiring contract for non-expiring contracts.


Rose might be a better player than those other SF's; I would agree with that. But I think Jeffries, Balkman, and Lee are FAR better fits for what the Knicks need. They already have Marbury, Francis, Crawford, Robinson, and Richardson who all have chucker, ballhog, and/or undisciplined styles of play. Throwing Rose into the mix makes that even more of a problem. Taking Rose out means they have more guys who don't need the ball to be effective and will do the little things. I'd rather have Rose on that team to create a messy rotation and a further disproportionate shot selection. 

I'm not saying the Knicks won't suck. They will and there's little to be done about that. But they aren't quite the mess they were last season and I bet they'll jump around 10 wins or so. That would equate to about 33-35 wins and probably a #9/#10 draft pick for us. Not bad, but I'm greedy and want higher.


----------



## McBulls

There's a rumor on the Knicks RealGM board that Jeffries is having surgery and will be out at least 6 weeks.

RealGM thread link 

Hard to justify cutting Jalen Rose with this news.


----------



## johnston797

McBulls said:


> There's a rumor on the Knicks RealGM board that Jeffries is having surgery and will be out at least 6 weeks.
> 
> RealGM thread link
> 
> Hard to justify cutting Jalen Rose with this news.


He is still behind Richardson and Lee and Balkman.


----------



## McBulls

johnston797 said:


> He is still behind Richardson and Lee and Balkman.


Maybe. Do you really think Lee and Balkman are better NBA players right now than Rose?
In any case, the Knicks are paying Rose's salary anyway. Its a little strange to create an empty roster spot for half of the season that could be well occupied by Rose.


----------



## johnston797

McBulls said:


> Maybe. Do you really think Lee and Balkman are better NBA players right now than Rose?
> In any case, the Knicks are paying Rose's salary anyway. Its a little strange to create an empty roster spot for half of the season that could be well occupied by Rose.


Was Luke Schenser better than Tim Thomas?


----------



## LegoHat

Hasheem Thabeet is looking pretty damn good, in his first game for UCONN he had 11 points, 8 rebounds and *7 blocks* in just 20 minutes. He went 3-11 from the free throw stripe though, but I think he is going to turn into an absolute monster on defense, a new Mutombo perhaps. Granted, this was against a relatively small frontline, but still a very impressive performance.

Boxscore

Quotes from Thabeet:



> "I felt good. I keep getting better and better every day."
> What changed in the 2nd half?
> "We knew we could play better than we played in the first half so we just talked to each other in the locker room. Coach got on us. We played better defense. They didn’t score in almost the first 10 minutes (of the second half)."
> 
> *"My goal is to be one of the best shot blockers this year."*


Finally a couple of photos of Thabeet from the game:



















There are definitely some options to think about with the Knicks pick.


----------



## LegoHat

Bill Simmons has a piece on the Knicks in his NBA Season Preview  



> 4. Quentin Richardson and Eddy Curry
> 
> If you're trying to figure out how the Knicks season could possibly be more entertaining than it was last season, well, here's how: More fat guys! Move over from the buffet table, Jerome James, Q and Eddy are coming in for seconds! If they ever start the same game, the PA announcer should announce them with their combined weight, like they're a wrestling tag-team or something.
> 
> I can't believe what a disaster this Knicks team is. OK, maybe I can. But will there ever be a more inexplicable move than the Knicks spending $30 million on the insanely mediocre Jared Jeffries (really $60 million since they have to pay double for the luxury tax), than allowing the Spurs to steal Jackie Butler (a legitimate sleeper at center) away for $7 million because they were worried about the luxury tax ramifications? What about the illogical Jalen Rose buyout, whose $16.9 million salary could have been used for a deadline deal in a few months? What about the season-ticket holders fleeing in droves? What about Isiah being forced to coach this mess? My head is spinning.
> 
> (Note: I maintained from Day 1 that Isiah would be an unequivocal disaster in New York, but never in my wildest dreams did I imagine he could cost the Knicks hundreds of millions of dollars. That's not a misprint. He has cost the Knicks hundreds of millions of dollars. This was one of those rare sports stories that somehow went underreported for whatever reason, like everyone backed off because he's been so incompetent, it wasn't even that interesting to discuss. Well, think of all the attention T.O. received over the past few years, or Barry Bonds or even A-Rod, ... how could anything be a bigger story than Isiah Thomas single-handedly destroying the NBA's marquee franchise? You'll understand in two years when you're watching Spike Lee's documentary about the Isiah era: "When Eddy Curry's Levi's Broke.")


The sports guy does _not_ like Isiah, but that's understandable after Isiah threatened to beat him up if they ever met face to face.


----------



## Hustle

Chinese prospect Yi gets permission to enter '07 draft

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2648042

More good news for the Bulls


----------



## Da Grinch

LegoHat said:


> Bill Simmons has a piece on the Knicks in his NBA Season Preview
> 
> 
> 
> The sports guy does _not_ like Isiah, but that's understandable after Isiah threatened to beat him up if they ever met face to face.


when did he do that ?

my guess is after one of the sports guys articles.


----------



## El Chapu

Eddy with one rebound per 20 minutes tonight. Thats almost 1 rebound per half for a 6'11 center! And against the Hawks, nontheless...


----------



## LegoHat

Da Grinch said:


> when did he do that ?
> 
> my guess is after one of the sports guys articles.


Not after one in particular, I guess he just got tired of being bashed by Simmons constantly, even if most of Simmons' comments weren't that far off track.

Here is a link to the story on Deadspin. Apparently, a Simmons fan wrote in saying that Isiah had been on Stephen A Smith's radio show, where he made this comment: 



> "On Stephen A. Smith's ESPN radio show, Isiah Thomas just ranted about sportwriters who without any athletic ability making personal attacks on athletes. He went so far to say that if he were to meet you, Bill Simmons on the street, there would be a problem."


----------



## The ROY

Some people on here actually think the Knicks have a chance to possibly make the playoffs? Are u watching these guys on league pass vs. Indiana? They SUCK, badly. David Lee & Balkman look like true role players though. Channing Frye should be their main building block.



> Isiah: We May Stink Tonight
> New York Daily News - 11/04 - 4:54 AM EST
> Isiah Thomas admitted yesterday that he is concerned about the Knicks "being flat" for the home opener. In fact, Thomas was essentially making a preemptive strike when he said that playing a third game in four nights, starting with the triple-overtime win against Memphis, could take its toll.
> 
> It seems odd that Thomas was already building excuses for a game the Knicks haven't even played, writes Frank Isola of the New York Daily News. Especially since it is only the first week of the season and the Pacers also will be playing their third game in four nights.
> 
> Incredibly, the game was not a sellout as of late yesterday.
> 
> "We're going to need the building to be energetic for us," Thomas said, trying to appeal to the fans. "There is a possibility that (with) everything that is going on, we could not have legs (tonight)." [READ]


----------



## BullSoxChicagosFinest

El Chapu said:


> Eddy with one rebound per 20 minutes tonight. Thats almost 1 rebound per half for a 6'11 center! And against the Hawks, nontheless...


I'll never forget when Earl Boykins outrebounded in a game against the Bulls a few years ago


----------



## LegoHat

A little possible draft pick update in preseason games:

Kevin Durant: 26 mins, 16 pts, 4 rebs, 7-17 fg's, Boxscore 

Thaddeus Young: 22 mins, 20 pts, 3 rebs, 7-11 fg's, Boxscore 

Brandan Wright: 18 mins, 19 pts, 2 rebs, 8-12 fg's, Boxscore 

Julian Wright: 21 mins, 15 pts, 9 rebs, 5-8 fg-s, Boxscore


----------



## rwj333

I'm watching the Knicks for the first time all season. 

They were down by 20 to the Spurs in the 3rd quarter, but have rallied to 3 points down with 3 minutes left in the 4th. Marbury hit some clutch shots. Rose is playing excellent defense on Duncan because they have played against eachother so much. 

Eddy Curry looks really slow and overweight. Quentin Richardson looks really solid. Isiah benched all the starters in the 3rd quarter. Steve Francis was out for most of the game with an ankle injury.


----------



## The ROY

Bulls are getting a top 5 pick from NY. You can look at Zeke's face, he KNOWS he's about to lose his job.


----------



## Bulls rock your socks

LegoHat said:


> Hasheem Thabeet is looking pretty damn good, in his first game for UCONN he had 11 points, 8 rebounds and *7 blocks* in just 20 minutes. He went 3-11 from the free throw stripe though, but I think he is going to turn into an absolute monster on defense, a new Mutombo perhaps. Granted, this was against a relatively small frontline, but still a very impressive performance.
> 
> Boxscore
> 
> Quotes from Thabeet:
> 
> 
> 
> Finally a couple of photos of Thabeet from the game:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are definitely some options to think about with the Knicks pick.



dude that guy is skinny as hell. no way is going to be good. hes a skeleton. aka " the next manute bol" haha


----------



## Hustle

Bulls rock your socks said:


> dude that guy is skinny as hell. no way is going to be good. hes a skeleton. aka " the next manute bol" haha


Skinny doesn't equal bad, though it doesn't help. I don't think he is what the Bulls need, but there is a role in the NBA for the Tyson Chandler's out there.


----------



## Hustle

*November and December NCAA ESPN TV Schedule*
http://sports.espn.go.com/espntv/espnTopics?topic=Basketball&watch=MNCAABBALL

For those like me with only basic cable, 
*games to watch for next years pick*(all times central)......


11/20 Perdue @ Georgia Tech, 4:00 (ESPN2) watch *Thaddeus Young*

11/25 Florida @ Kansas,9:30(ESPN2)*Julian Wright,Darrell Arthur,Al Horford,Joakim Noah a must see*

11/28 Indiana @ Duke, 8:00 (ESPN) *Josh McRoberts and maybe DJ White of Inidana*

11/29 Ohio State @ UNC, 8:00 (ESPN) *Brandon Wright (oden out)*

12/2 Texas @ Gonzaga, 2:00 (ESPN) *Kevin Durant*

12/2 Georgetown @ Duke, 6:00 (ESPN2) *McRoberts and Roy Hibbert*

12/4 USC @ Kansas, 8:00 (ESPN2) 

12/6 Holy Cross @ Duke, 7:00 (ESPN2) 

12/9 George Mason @ Duke, 11AM (ESPN)

12/9 Toledo @ Kansas, noon ESPN

12/9 Georgia Tech @ Vanderbilt, 4:00 ESPN2

12/10 LSU @ Texas, 7:00 ESPN

12/19 Kent State @ Duke, 6:00 ESPN

12/20 Arkansas @ Texas, 8:00 ESPN2

12/21 Gonzaga @ Duke, 8:00 ESPN2

12/23 Texas @ Tennesee, 11AM ESPN

12/28 Rutgers @ UNC, 6:00 ESPN2

12/30 Georgetown @ Michigan, 11AM ESPN2

12/30 Connecticut @ West Virginia, 1:00 (ESPN2) *Hasheem Thabeet*


if anyone can find a link to games scheduled on CBS it would be much appreciated


----------



## The ROY

Don't forget about Brandon Rush of Kansas also

thanks for the listing hustle


----------



## Hustle

The ROY said:


> Don't forget about Brandon Rush of Kansas also
> 
> thanks for the listing hustle


I like Rush, but if we end up with him I will be so dissappointed, same for Corey Brewer.


----------



## The ROY

Hustle said:


> I like Rush, but if we end up with him I will be so dissappointed, same for Corey Brewer.


Nah we won't end up with either..

I just felt that he's good enough to be aknowledged, that's all

Unless Thaddeus Young is the NEXT can't miss superstar, I don't want him or that SF from UCLA either...The kid from Africa (I think)


----------



## Hustle

Young was highly touted, I haven't seen anything from him yet. But as one of the top imcoming freshman in a very strong class, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. I am all for bringing in a sure star regardless of position.

And damn it Roy you still have Hansborough in your sig.


----------



## The ROY

Hustle said:


> Young was highly touted, I haven't seen anything from him yet. But as one of the top imcoming freshman in a very strong class, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. I am all for bringing in a sure star regardless of position.
> 
> And damn it Roy you still have Hansborough in your sig.


Hansborough (if picked) = trade bait


----------



## kulaz3000

When its all said and done, we need height. 

We need of the seven footers from the draft. Right after we draft them we just feed them offensive moves and make him perfect atleast one nba post move and we'll be fine..

We all love Oden, but i just don't see us getting the no.1 pick..

I think our best chance is Thabeet. I really love his height, his raw ability. He just needs a post move, and obviously some meat on those bones.


----------



## The ROY

I've seen nothing of Thabeet

So if it's not Oden, I want Noah or Durant....Hawes after those two..

I'm not very fond of Roy Hibbert or Tiago Splitter....Hibbert only got his arse into shape because he can be a lotto pick with his size....


----------



## The ROY

GOOD NEWS :

Hoopshype.com reported that Pau Gasol might be back within the next 3 weeks. Which means, They'll DEFININTELY have a better record than NY at the end of the season. Even if the ENTIRE league has improved & records overall will be stronger, some teams will STILL be at the bottom. I expect NY to be one of those teams. 5 games into the season, NY, Atlanta, Portland, Boston & Toronto are looking like the possible WORST of the NBA. Atlanta's record obviously doesn't show it but they'll come back to earth soon enough. If Atlanta does keep it up, GREAT, it'll just push NY down even further.


----------



## lgtwins

Bulls rock your socks said:


> dude that guy is skinny as hell. no way is going to be good. hes a skeleton. aka " the next manute bol" haha


Remember Bosh when he came on NBA scene?


----------



## El Chapu

The ROY said:


> GOOD NEWS :
> 
> Hoopshype.com reported that Pau Gasol might be back within the next 3 weeks. Which means, They'll DEFININTELY have a better record than NY at the end of the season. Even if the ENTIRE league has improved & records overall will be stronger, some teams will STILL be at the bottom. I expect NY to be one of those teams. 5 games into the season, NY, Atlanta, Portland, Boston & Toronto are looking like the possible WORST of the NBA. Atlanta's record obviously doesn't show it but they'll come back to earth soon enough. If Atlanta does keep it up, GREAT, it'll just push NY down even further.


And if Memphis su**s, Pau will demand a trade. Win-Win.


----------



## such sweet thunder

Good news from Knick land. Isiah is already talking benchings. Nothing generates losses like the combination of a lack of talent and instability. 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2654042


New York Knicks coach Isiah Thomas is prepared to do whatever he needs to win, even if that means benching star guards Stephon Marbury or Steve Francis.

"I have zero favorites. I'll bench anyone," Thomas told the New York Daily News. "I think I showed you that [Monday]. Whether it be Marbury, Francis, whoever. I want to win."

During the Knicks' home loss to San Antonio on Monday, the Spurs led 52-29 with 3:34 remaining in the half. Thomas then sent out four new players who helped the Knicks close the half with a 12-2 spurt that made it 54-41.

That group -- which included Nate Robinson, David Lee, Malik Rose, and Mardy Collins along with starter Quentin Richardson -- also opened the second half, while players such as Marbury and Eddy Curry, who help comprise the NBA's highest payroll, watched from the bench. Rose and Collins hadn't even scored this season.

"The guys that were out there, they were getting the job done," Marbury said after the game. "They were playing with energy and getting us back in the game."

"We got a lot of guys who are shaken right now," Malik Rose told the Daily News. "We have guys on the team who are top talents in this league who are shaken right now, and it's just going to take time to get that confidence back."

"I'm a fighter myself and I want people who are going to fight and compete," Thomas said after Monday's loss. "And if you're not going to fight and compete, then I'm the president and we can give you a pink slip, too."


----------



## rosenthall

such sweet thunder said:


> Good news from Knick land. Isiah is already talking benchings. Nothing generates losses like the combination of a lack of talent and instability.
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2654042
> 
> 
> . "And if you're not going to fight and compete, then *I'm the president * and we can give you a pink slip, too."


Not for long!! :laugh:


----------



## El Chapu

Oden article from CNNSI:

_"But a warning to everyone on Ohio State's schedule: The cast on his right wrist -- Buckeye scarlet and grey, naturally -- could make Oden even better. A weight-room regular, Oden has added about 15 pounds of muscle since arriving in Columbus and now weighs 280 pounds.

He's also been working on his left hand. Tirelessly.

"We had a coach in there the other day who said, 'I didn't know Greg Oden was left-handed," Matta said. "I know Greg's tired of being injured. But he's had to do some things that he maybe needed to get better at. I thought his left hand was pretty good when his right hand was not injured. But I think it could add more to his game."_

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...ew/2006/11/08/bc.bkc.oden.swait.ap/index.html


----------



## SALO

El Chapu said:


> Oden article from CNNSI:
> 
> _"But a warning to everyone on Ohio State's schedule: The cast on his right wrist -- Buckeye scarlet and grey, naturally -- could make Oden even better. A weight-room regular, Oden has added about 15 pounds of muscle since arriving in Columbus and now weighs 280 pounds.
> 
> He's also been working on his left hand. Tirelessly.
> 
> "We had a coach in there the other day who said, 'I didn't know Greg Oden was left-handed," Matta said. "I know Greg's tired of being injured. But he's had to do some things that he maybe needed to get better at. I thought his left hand was pretty good when his right hand was not injured. But I think it could add more to his game."_
> 
> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...ew/2006/11/08/bc.bkc.oden.swait.ap/index.html


I heard the same thing about Deng when he broke his wrist. He was supposedly working on his left-hand all the time since he couldn't use his right, yet once he came back I didn't notice any improvement. Deng still drives to his right and finishes with his right most of the time.


----------



## El Chapu

SALO said:


> I heard the same thing about Deng when he broke his wrist. He was supposedly working on his left-hand all the time since he couldn't use his right, yet once he came back I didn't notice any improvement. Deng still drives to his right and finishes with his right most of the time.


I think perimeter oriented players always tend to favor one hand, whereas post players that operate close to the basket tend to use both, or at least those that have an offensive game. Obviously it makes him more dangerous, complete and unpredictable. Sort of...


----------



## step

> His size alone makes him a force, but great timing and an uncanny sense around the basket make him particularly dangerous. Matta remembers seeing one game where Oden blocked 18 shots in 32 minutes


Please declare, please...


----------



## BullSoxChicagosFinest

son of a *****, i just dropped Crawford in fantasy yesterday


----------



## kulaz3000

BullSoxChicagosFinest said:


> son of a *****, i just dropped Crawford in fantasy yesterday


hahaha. aint that fantasy league for you. too bad he still turns the ball over too many times. but a good line today for JC.


----------



## McBulls

BullSoxChicagosFinest said:


> son of a *****, i just dropped Crawford in fantasy yesterday


There are rumors that he's on the trade market, so maybe he's being showcased. Makes sense -- The Knicks have too many point guards and need help on the front line.


----------



## truth

McBulls said:


> There are rumors that he's on the trade market, so maybe he's being showcased. Makes sense -- The Knicks have too many point guards and need help on the front line.


knicks need a weak side defender in the worst possible way..Curry is a $%^^ing statue on D


----------



## BullSoxChicagosFinest

Garden Too Cruel for Isiah http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/469739p-395357c.html


----------



## BullSoxChicagosFinest

McBulls said:


> There are rumors that he's on the trade market, so maybe he's being showcased. Makes sense -- The Knicks have too many point guards and need help on the front line.


plus the Francis injury


----------



## Wynn

BullSoxChicagosFinest said:


> Garden Too Cruel for Isiah http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/469739p-395357c.html


"Certain guys, who are arguably top-10 talents in this league are shaken right now and it's just going to take a little bit of time for them to get that confidence back." -- Malik Rose

I'm glad Rose used the word "arguably", or I'd have thought he was crazy!


----------



## Salvaged Ship

See Curry is 2-11 from the field with 5 measly rebs, while Yao has 33 pts, 15 rebs, 7 blks.

Man, NY should be 0-6 after tonight! Never should have won those two games.


----------



## yodurk

Salvaged Ship said:


> See Curry is 2-11 from the field with 5 measly rebs, while Yao has 33 pts, 15 rebs, 7 blks.
> 
> Man, NY should be 0-6 after tonight! Never should have won those two games.


Unsurprising to most of us that Yao would dominate Curry. Yao has always had Curry's number, on both ends of the court.


----------



## SALO

yodurk said:


> Unsurprising to most of us that Yao would dominate Curry. Yao has always had Curry's number, on both ends of the court.


Most of the highlights on NBA.com are of him owning Curry. Reminded me of Howard vs Wallace for a second :biggrin:. The first highlight in particular it looked like Eddy just gave up as soon as Yao made his first move. 

But yeah, Yao used to dominate both Eddy and Tyson when they were Bulls. There's just not much you can do against him.


----------



## Wynn

yodurk said:


> Unsurprising to most of us that Yao would dominate Curry. Yao has always had Curry's number, on both ends of the court.


"Oh, man, it was bad out there," Curry said. "But you've got to give credit to Yao. He played me great." 

"He's never been that active," Curry said. "Man, playoff form, All-Star form, I don't know. I've never seen Yao like that." 

....from http://www.sportsline.com/nba/gamecenter/recap/[email protected]

It would appear that only Mr. Ed himself was surprised by Ming's domination.


----------



## badfish

Wynn said:


> "Oh, man, it was bad out there," Curry said. "But you've got to give credit to Yao. He played me great."
> 
> "He's never been that active," Curry said. "Man, playoff form, All-Star form, I don't know. I've never seen Yao like that."



What does Eddy know about playoff or All-Star form?


----------



## Hustle

I nice Durant excerpt from Draftexpress


> Has a 6'10" freshman as skilled as Durant ever stepped foot on a college court? It may sound extreme, but it hard to come up with a decent list of players that have even approached what Durant is doing out there.


http://www.draftexpress.com/blogs.php?blogid=7





badfish said:


> What does Eddy know about playoff or All-Star form?


He's knows if you have it you are better than him.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1

The cracks are already beginning to show. Zeke's fingerpointing...Zeke's suggesting opposing players shouldn't bring their best game to MSG...fans booing Starbury....Zeke's already worrying about team psyche.

Helloooooo high lotto pick. Just when we were starting to worry we'd lose it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/13/s...tball Association/New York Knicks&oref=slogin



> Bruce Bowen and his extended right foot faded into the Knicks’ rearview mirror late Saturday night, and Isiah Thomas set about finding new ways to prod his team to compete.
> 
> 
> The Knicks landed in New York early yesterday morning, having lost their mental battle with Bowen and the San Antonio Spurs, and having lost two of three games on their trip. They are 2-5 in Thomas’s first two weeks as the coach, and he is reaching for ways to keep spirits afloat in a tough opening month.
> 
> On Saturday, that meant orally attacking and threatening Bowen over his defensive tactics. It temporarily sparked the Knicks, who nevertheless lost to the Spurs for the second time in six days. An N.B.A. spokesman said the league did not plan to review Thomas’s actions.
> 
> As the Knicks returned home, Thomas turned his frustration back toward the New York fan base, which has made Madison Square Garden inhospitable only to the home team. The Cleveland Cavaliers arrive tonight, and it is possible that LeBron James will be greeted with far more enthusiasm than the Knicks.
> 
> “We got to start winning at home,” Thomas said. “And we got to get to the point where we make our arena uncomfortable. It disappoints me that players feel that they can come into New York and that’s the place to put on a show and play your best. We got to change that mind-set across the league.”
> 
> He added: “Save your best performances for other arenas. We don’t necessarily want them in ours.”
> 
> The Knicks have lost both of their home games, to Indiana and San Antonio, and they have been booed throughout. Much of the discontent has been directed at Stephon Marbury, a Brooklyn native who struggled in the first few games of the season.
> 
> Thomas is so concerned with the psyche of his team that he has directed his public critiques at everyone and everything else — fickle fans, opposing players, referees, the schedule makers.
> 
> The Knicks have the same record through seven games as they did under Larry Brown last season. Yet if not for Jamal Crawford’s game-saving 3-pointer in Denver and a triple-overtime victory in Memphis, the Knicks would be 0-7. After the Knicks lost Saturday in San Antonio, Thomas continued to accentuate the positive, saying, “Hey, won one out of three.”
> 
> In the Knicks’ locker room, the mood was not quite as chipper.
> 
> “One and two on a three-game road trip, it’s not good,” Malik Rose said. “That’s how I look at it.”
> 
> Told that Thomas expressed modest satisfaction, Rose said: “He gets paid to make that decision, so I guess that’s the one we’ll go with as a team. I would have much rather — and I’m sure he would, too — rather have saw us go 3-0. I’m just tired of losing the same way.”
> 
> The Knicks have faced double-digit deficits in every first half this season. Despite a number of impressive late rallies, they rarely have enough to push their way to victory.
> 
> There is no letup in the schedule. Over the next three weeks, the Knicks have home games against Cleveland, Washington, Boston, Houston and Chicago, and road games against Miami, Minnesota, Boston, Chicago, Cleveland and Detroit.
> 
> If they are to survive November, the Knicks may need to adopt some of the edginess that Thomas showed Saturday in San Antonio.
> 
> “Eventually, we’ll get there,” Thomas said. “My job is to set the tone, and I will set the tone.”
> 
> Quentin Richardson, who has been the Knicks’ best player at both ends of the court, said he appreciated Thomas’s extreme tactics Saturday, but he noted that they should not be necessary.
> 
> “Our coach is fighting, we obviously have to fight,” Richardson said. “But we have to find a way to just get that started sooner. We shouldn’t have to have him come out and trigger something. We should be doing that anyway, playing hard.”


----------



## Wynn

Zeke! said:


> He added: “Save your best performances for other arenas. We don’t necessarily want them in ours.”


Maybe if Isaiah encouraged his team to play some defense, the other team wouldn't always have their "best performance" in MSG!


----------



## Showtyme

Ummm, if the draft was tomorrow, the chances are that we'd have a better pick than the Knicks, and therefore no swap would take place.


----------



## DaBullz

Wynn said:


> Maybe if Isaiah encouraged his team to play some defense, the other team wouldn't always have their "best performance" in MSG!


The knicks will never win another game.


----------



## The 6ft Hurdle

DaBullz said:


> The knicks will never win another game.


 :clown: 

The Knicks have more wins than we do, and if we lose to LA, we are a full game behind. 

Start of the season, but this crap has happened every year. Unless Skiles tightens up his rotations and gives the best players their space to make mistakes on offense, why should we expect a different postseason outcome ?

Looks like our old boy Jamal had a great game.


----------



## Hustle

Thabeet with 9 blocks last night against fairfield!

He now is averaging 6.7bpg in 3 games, only 1.7 pfpg. Looks like he is still super raw offensivily, but was 4-5 from the field last night with 12. We'll see how he does against Big east competition.


Another guy to keep an eye on might be Chad Budinger from Arizona. I kind of looked past him being a white 2 guard, but it looks like he may be a seriously legitimate scorer. Any highly touted freshman this year that puts up 32 in his second college game might be something to keep an eye on. He's already outplaying a very highly touted sophmore in Marcus Williams who is thought to be a top 10 pick sometime in the next 2 years(by hoopshype, nbadraft.net, draft express)(not me I say top 20).


----------



## The ROY

We'll still win 45 games and get a playoff spot.....

Knicks will still be giving up a top 10er


----------



## Hustle

*Guys to Watch this Season in the NCAA*
1. Greg Oden OSU, C, Fr.
2. Kevin Durant TEXAS, F, Fr.
3. Joakim Noah FLORIDA, F/C, Jr. 
4. Spencer Hawes WASHINGTON, C, Fr.
5. Brandon Wright UNC, PF, Fr.
6. Darrell Arthur KANSAS, PF, Fr.
7. Hasheem Thabeet UCONN, C, Fr. 
8. Roy Hibbert GEORGETOWN, C, Jr.
9. Josh McRoberts DUKE, F/C, So.
10. Chase Budinger ARIZONA, G/F, Fr.
11. Al Horford FLORIDA, PF, Jr.
12. Dominic James MARQUETTE, PG, So.
13. Thaddeus Young GT, SF, Fr.


----------



## kukoc4ever

Uh-oh.

http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=425



> On balance, this year’s Knicks are thus far an impressive 3.4 points per 100 possessions better on both ends of the court than last year’s squad, making their net efficiency (-0.8 points per 100 possessions) resemble that of a .500 team. Perhaps a team performing within the vicinity of .500 ball is nothing to get excited about, but it’s nonetheless a steep improvement over a team contending for the #1 lottery pick (like last year’s team, which posted a hair-raising net efficiency of -7.6 points per 100 possessions).


----------



## Hustle

If the Knicks even play .500 ball for a month, I will be shocked, and crying in some corner. 

And they have a pretty easy shedule next month. No one should be getting in a fuss about NY winning 4 games, 2 of which were just luck, one of those against the pitifull Griz.


----------



## UMfan83

Didn't know where else to put this, wasn't worth its own thread...anyone see Nate Robinson OWN Yao, by swatting him? I hate the Knicks, but its hard to not like lil Nate


----------



## step

> but its hard to not like lil Nate


I find it impossible.


----------



## lgtwins

kukoc4ever said:


> Uh-oh.
> 
> http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=425


Uh-oh what? And why???


----------



## ace20004u

That was some block on Yao, Nate has some kinda heart!

ACE


----------



## McBulls

ace20004u said:


> That was some block on Yao, Nate has some kinda heart!
> 
> ACE


Brown had it right -- Nate's a "Human highlight fiim". Not sure he can be a valuable member of an NBA team though...


----------



## Hustle

Quick thought on Thaddeus Young

-He will not be a 2 guard in the NBA, will definitely play SF. He doesn't have good enough ball skills or speed. I was kind of hoping he would be a guy who could replace Gordon if a good trade offer came along this summer, so much for that., Budinger may be the only significant 2 in next years draft, and I’m not sure if he’s a 2 or 3 or if he’s even that good. Gordon is likely not replaceable via next years draft.

- His offensive ability wasn't on display last night, but he did play some good d. His lateral quickness is pretty good and he has some nice size at 6'8" with a very decent build. 

I was hoping to see another guy to go along with Durant and Oden as a definite superstar, I didn't see it either game I saw him play. Very dissappointed in what I saw from him. He's a freshman and will probably pick it up, I'll give him some looks later in the season because right now I'm not seeing much.

PS- Durant is ridiculuous

No way do I approve of any trade of that pick unless it's top 2 protected, not even straight up for KG. He might be the best freshman in the history of college basketball(as of now I consider Melo as that guy) and his potential is just being tapped. He seriously has a very good shot at getting taken before Oden he is that good.

Best 2 guard in the country?


----------



## The ROY

Yep, I was talking about Durant on here before alot of folks knew who he was.

Most didn't even understand why he's ranked SO high on all the draft boards.

The kid is THAT damn GOOD.


----------



## Hustle

^the only mock that has Durant 2nd is nbadraft.net. Draft express moved him up from 7 to 3. Hoopshype has him at 7! Insidehoops has him at 5 behinde Hansbrough! :thumbdown: 

Are these guys even trying? 

My Mock rankings
1. Draft express
2. NBAdraft.net
3. none


----------



## The ROY

At this point, putting ANYONE in front of him besides Oden is utter nonsense.

To have him ranked #7 is unacceptable and putting guys like julian wright & tiago splitter in front of him is even more unforgiveable.


----------



## jbulls

The ROY said:


> At this point, putting ANYONE in front of him besides Oden is utter nonsense.
> 
> To have him ranked #7 is unacceptable and putting guys like julian wright & tiago splitter in front of him is even more unforgiveable.


You do realize that you have Durant behind Noah in your singature, right?


----------



## The ROY

jbulls said:


> You do realize that you have Durant behind Noah in your singature, right?


:lol: 

very true, but the only reaosn I had him there is because the board is so adament on getting a Pf or C that I just had them ranked there according to US...


----------



## Hustle

Quick Thoughts on *Brandon Wright*

- At 6'9" he is not undersized. His wingspan more than makes up for it, and his standing reach is probably equal to the average center in the league. He's skinny but it doesn't hurt him in the college game, will probably need some more bulk in the NBA.

- He isn't raw. Offensivily he has almost a full arsenal of post moves already. Haven't seen him take any jumpers he seems to like to get all his buckets in the post. FT shooting form kind of ugly, may struggle with that for a while, but is so fluid with the ball I have to think it will be correctable. Great hands and touch around the basket, already an above average passer and decision maker for his size. He is looking every bit as promising in the post as Hansbrough did his freshman year plus some.

-On the defensive end he is a real dominator of the paint at the college level. He covers a lot of ground with that length. He has a real nack for getting his hands on balls that he blocks, doesn't try to swat balls into the stands, kind of taps the ball to a stop then goes back up and retrieves it(he has done this multiple times in multiple games I've seen). Picks up any loose balls around him. On the college level is quick enough to guard at least 4 positions if not all 5.

It's obvious after watching this kid for 3 games he is a very natural player, he is very smooth at everthing he does. Good fundamentals. I am very high on him so far. I'd put him 4rth on my mock right after Noah*.

*Still yet to have seen Hawes, Thabeet, James, Arthur, and Budinger.


*For god sakes if your going to watch a college game this year watch Florida vs. Kansas tonight at 9:30C (ESPN2). Get your tivos and dvr's ready.*


----------



## Showtyme

Hustle said:


> Quick Thoughts on *Brandon Wright*
> 
> - At 6'9" he is not undersized. His wingspan more than makes up for it, and his standing reach is probably equal to the average center in the league. He's skinny but it doesn't hurt him in the college game, will probably need some more bulk in the NBA.
> 
> - He isn't raw. Offensivily he has almost a full arsenal of post moves already. Haven't seen him take any jumpers he seems to like to get all his buckets in the post. FT shooting form kind of ugly, may struggle with that for a while, but is so fluid with the ball I have to think it will be correctable. Great hands and touch around the basket, already an above average passer and decision maker for his size. He is looking every bit as promising in the post as Hansbrough did his freshman year plus some.
> 
> -On the defensive end he is a real dominator of the paint at the college level. He covers a lot of ground with that length. He has a real nack for getting his hands on balls that he blocks, doesn't try to swat balls into the stands, kind of taps the ball to a stop then goes back up and retrieves it(he has done this multiple times in multiple games I've seen). Picks up any loose balls around him. On the college level is quick enough to guard at least 4 positions if not all 5.
> 
> It's obvious after watching this kid for 3 games he is a very natural player, he is very smooth at everthing he does. Good fundamentals. I am very high on him so far. I'd put him 4rth on my mock right after Noah*.
> 
> *Still yet to have seen Hawes, Thabeet, James, Arthur, and Budinger.
> 
> 
> *For god sakes if your going to watch a college game this year watch Florida vs. Kansas tonight at 9:30C (ESPN2). Get your tivos and dvr's ready.*


Yeah. I have to agree with all of this. I watched Wright the other day... holy cow. I had no idea. I knew the kid was good, but I had no idea he was a) so polished or b) so defensively sound.

In other news, Josh McRoberts looks like a serious player this year. Way athletic, great defensive instincts, really runs the team and has control. He's got a nice handle, too.

If we end up with a pick around 3-6 instead of a shot at Oden, we can expect some serious problem solving at the big man positions. No joke. These kids are READY.

Combine that with Deng and Tyrus's development... we're looking at a starting frontcourt.


----------



## The ROY

Anybody watching Florida Vs. Kansas?

Julian Wright = :worthy: 

This kid is a SICK SF

17pts, 6rebs & 2blks at the half...TONS of energy, athletic as hell and a great passer. I didn't know he was THAT good...


----------



## The ROY

Although Al Horford only has 6pts thusfar, that kid is gonna be a HELL of a PF in the NBA. He's got "baby" man-child written all over him. He reminds me of a smaller Dwight Howard out there, AT TIMES.

I think we can mark Brandon Rush & Corey Brewer off the "possibles" list. Both are good but aren't great and I seriously doubt we'd need either.

Durant, Horford & Wright are my favorites in college b-ball right now.

EDIT : Julian Wright is the TRUTH. Natural scoring-passing SF. He's looking like a top 5 pick right now.


----------



## The ROY

In other news : Frye is out 3-6 weeks (although he wasn't doing much anyway). Marbury is looking to explode on Zeke very soon. A top 5 pick is looking more and more likely EACH passing day.

I don't care how many SF's we have, it'll be tough to pass up Julian Wright.


----------



## such sweet thunder

This is a great Florida Kansas game btw, for all who are watching. You kind of new it was going to go overtime with the way they were playing. College ball really is fun.


----------



## CocaineisaHelluvaDrug

oden or durant or you might as well trade the pick ...........2007 is`nt a strong draft past the top 5 projected picks IMO


lots of overrated big men


----------



## superdave

I know we're only 15 games into the season or so but... is it too early to say that there are/were no franchise players in the 2006 NBA draft? Heck, which of the current crop will become an All-Star within the next 5 seasons?

The more I see out of the potential 2007 class it just seems to me that they are going to blow the top off the NBA compared to the 2006 class. Especially with the dearth of able big men in the NBA, some of these guys are going to blow up right away.


----------



## such sweet thunder

I know this was rhetorical post, but I would have to say it's still too early. Let's see what the next fifteen games bring. 

Shelden Williams had a number of moster games; I'm curious to see how he finishes out the season. Morrison's play is bizarre, but he's starting to score regularaly. Roy was lighting things up before he suffered that strange heel injury. I'm curious to see how he comes back. Aldridge is just working into game shape. It'll be another fourty games before we even begin to find out what we have in Thomas.


----------



## CocaineisaHelluvaDrug

ok ....oden,durant are impact big men..

noah and horford are overrated because they play on a good college team together , that skinny chinese kid will snap in half before he ever makes 10 points a game, tiago splitter has been declaring evry year forever,he`ll be about 40 before he actually hits the nba,roy hibbert is just eddy curry mk 2 etc etc 

thats IMO of course


----------



## El Chapu

You cant say Pippen and Jordan were overrated because they played together. Obviously not comparing Noah and Horford (LMAO), but thats not a valid argument.


----------



## Hustle

ROY, I think your going over board on Julian. I saw quite a bit of him last year and this was a career game for him. He can do a little bit of everything, but is not great in the post (mostly because of his size), not a good shooter, won't control the paint defensivily on the next level. He's just not what we need. I like the kid, but he ain't got nothing on Luol.

Arthur didn't get a lot of burn due to foul trouble, but he impressed me with the little bit of time he was out there. Shooting touch is pretty ridiculuous for a guy his size. He took it right at Noah and Horford whenever he got the chance. Kansas is always on tv so should get plenty more opprotunities to check him out. I have a very good feeling about him, as I did Brandon Wright(who I am past sold on, top 5 lock)

I can't put my finger on what it is but I just can't sell myself on both of the Florida guys. They will both be solid pros but I just don't see a ton of potential. Considering how much I've seen I have a very bad read on those 2 maybe I'll change my mind.


----------



## The ROY

Hustle said:


> ROY, I think your going over board on Julian. I saw quite a bit of him last year and this was a career game for him. He can do a little bit of everything, but is not great in the post (mostly because of his size), not a good shooter, won't control the paint defensivily on the next level. He's just not what we need. I like the kid, but he ain't got nothing on Luol.
> 
> Arthur didn't get a lot of burn due to foul trouble, but he impressed me with the little bit of time he was out there. Shooting touch is pretty ridiculuous for a guy his size. He took it right at Noah and Horford whenever he got the chance. Kansas is always on tv so should get plenty more opprotunities to check him out. I have a very good feeling about him, as I did Brandon Wright(who I am past sold on, top 5 lock)
> 
> I can't put my finger on what it is but I just can't sell myself on both of the Florida guys. They will both be solid pros but I just don't see a ton of potential. Considering how much I've seen I have a very bad read on those 2 maybe I'll change my mind.


Hmm,

more atheletic than Luol
better passer than Luol
Faster than Luol
Better handles than Luol

He'll be BETTER than Luol deng in the long run..

I'm not overrating him, that kid is nasty, which is why ESPN and every other sports outlet is talking about him like crazy right now.


----------



## Hustle

The ROY said:


> more atheletic than Luol
> better passer than Luol
> Faster than Luol
> Better handles than Luol
> 
> He'll be BETTER than Luol deng in the long run..
> 
> I'm not overrating him, that kid is nasty, which is why ESPN and every other sports outlet is talking about him like crazy right now.


His 21 tonight was a career high. And it was mostly off transition dunks. He is very limited offensivily. And while he's solid defensivily, he's not a stud(much like Luol, but not quite the rebounder Lu is). I don't disagree with any of the comparisions you made. But the athletism and speed of Luol is made up for with length and body control, which makes them very close.

I am a fairly big fan of Julian, and Kansas, and have a very open mind as far as being okay with drafting another sf. He is just not worth it. He has an extremely small chance at being better than Luol IMO. I have a feeling if you watch more than his best game ever you will change your tune about saying he will be better than Lu. Offensivily Lu is so much better, I don't see how Julian could possibly be a good enough defender to make up the difference. Wright will be a quality role player, Deng might just be an allstar. You are overrating him by a lot. 

He was the best player on the winning team in a huge game that just played on ESPN so of course they are going rave about him.

I have to see more, but I have a feeling Arthur is a guy that will be more highly regarded than JWright, Horford, maybe even Noah. 19 and 9 in 16 minutes, somehow out did floridas bigs in limited time and made it look easy.

- Julian or Horford over Brandon is like Durant not being #2 on some mocks


----------



## The ROY

"If the nba draft were held today, Jualn Wright might be the No 1 pick - greg oden or no greg oden. According to foxsports.com's Jeff Goodman, "nba execs, including Jerry West & Danny Ainge, were lined up along courtside and shaking their heads at wright's performace"

-- Mark J. Terrill


----------



## Hustle

He might be 1? Come on ROY surely you don't believe that. I was wowed by Wright's preformance as well, but realize it was the game of his life. Because some NBAer's were impressed doesn't mean he's a top pick or better than Luol who turned more heads as a freshman.


----------



## The ROY

Nah, I don't believe it.....

But if Oden DOESN'T come out of this draft, Durant, B. Wright & J. Wright will battle for #1..

Horford & Noah are gonna have to seriously step up this year...They don't have the talent of either of those three mentioned above.


----------



## Hustle

I think were going to just have to agree to disagree on Julian, I think even his teammate Arthur will eclipse him.


----------



## The ROY

Hustle said:


> I think were going to just have to agree to disagree on Julian, I think even his teammate Arthur will eclipse him.


We'll see, Julian definintely has the 'star power' factor over Arthur...

Sorta like the Noah/Hoford fiasco of last year


----------



## Hustle

ESPN now has Bill Walker in the top 5 of their 2007 mock. Hopefully he is eligible, the draft keeps looking deeper. Poeple are talking about the monotony in the NBA now, just wait until after this draft. 

Julian is also in the top 5, so I guess I'm not just disagreeing with you ROY.


----------



## The ROY

Josh McRoberts will be on tonight, I personally wanna Gerald Henderson also


----------



## The ROY

New York is 5-11 right now with no signs of getting better, PLUS missing 3 of their rotation guys. I'm seeing 30 wins TOPS for them right about now.


----------



## The ROY

I think Brandan Wright is a PF we have to DEFININTELY consider (if u guys already haven't). Defensively, he's an absolute monster and there's nothing he can't do on the other end of the floor. Draftexpress says he's one and done.

Right now he's averaging 20, 10 & 2 blks per game

he'll be on tonight as they face Ohio State on ESPN

Bill Walker and Kansas St. will also be on, though I don't think nationally.

And Mr. Haseem Thabeet aka 6pts, 8rebs & 5blks per game is on tonight (Uconn)


----------



## Hustle

^Walker isn't w/ the team yet.


----------



## The ROY

Hustle said:


> ^Walker isn't w/ the team yet.


When will he be?

draftexpress had him listed for tonight but his situation is rather confusing for me


----------



## Hustle

dec 17


----------



## ScottMay

The ROY said:


> New York is 5-11 right now with no signs of getting better, PLUS missing 3 of their rotation guys. I'm seeing 30 wins TOPS for them right about now.


The bad news is that the Knicks just beat Cleveland in Cleveland. Curry and Crawford were huge down the stretch.

The good news is that they beat Cleveland. So we're now just 3.5 games behind them (still 4.0 behind the division leader).


----------



## El Chapu

Bleeping Cavs

:mad2:


----------



## such sweet thunder

I think it's time to become comfortable with the fact that the Knick are a much improved team. They've had good internal development. David Lee is exactly what they were looking for and is on pace to win sixth man of the year. Curry and Crawford both look a year-step better. Frye, though injured, is finding his way. Nate looks better. And Zeke is a better match for this team than Larry Brown. 

We may get a lottery pick from the Knick, but it isn't going to be a high one.


----------



## The ROY

such sweet thunder said:


> I think it's time to become comfortable with the fact that the Knick are a much improved team. They've had good internal development. David Lee is exactly what they were looking for and is on pace to win sixth man of the year. Curry and Crawford both look a year-step better. Frye, though injured, is finding his way. Nate looks better. And Zeke is a better match for this team than Larry Brown.
> 
> We may get a lottery pick from the Knick, but it isn't going to be a high one.


Ugh, their 6-11

they don't look very improved to me...

atleast we know we'll bounce back..theirs no hope for them cats


----------



## Showtyme

They really look pretty terrible out there as a team. Beating Cleveland is nice, a game they shouldn't have won, but just look at their team right now.

Crawford leads them in scoring (16.5 ppg on 39.7% FG, with 3.2 apg and 2.5 rpg)
Curry is averaging 15 and 5, as expected
Francis and Marbury have sunk so low as to become 11 and 4 guys, basically (Francis = 12 and 4, Marbury = 10 and 4.5).
David Lee is leading the team in rebounding (9.1) and FG% (63.6%, crazy) and averaging 10.1 ppg.
Nate Robinson is also averaging 10.1 ppg.
Channing Frye has been a disappointment, then injured; Renaldo Balkman shows signs of toughness but hasn't really done much as a whole, and Mardy Collins looks worse than Roger Mason Jr.
Their "hustle" big guys, Malik Rose and Jerome James, are combining for less than 17 mpg.

The Knicks are who we THOUGHT they were. They ARE who we THOUGHT they were!! Crown em.


----------



## Cyanobacteria

Showtyme said:


> They really look pretty terrible out there as a team. Beating Cleveland is nice, a game they shouldn't have won, but just look at their team right now.
> 
> Crawford leads them in scoring (16.5 ppg on 39.7% FG, with 3.2 apg and 2.5 rpg)
> Curry is averaging 15 and 5, as expected
> Francis and Marbury have sunk so low as to become 11 and 4 guys, basically (Francis = 12 and 4, Marbury = 10 and 4.5).
> David Lee is leading the team in rebounding (9.1) and FG% (63.6%, crazy) and averaging 10.1 ppg.
> Nate Robinson is also averaging 10.1 ppg.
> Channing Frye has been a disappointment, then injured; Renaldo Balkman shows signs of toughness but hasn't really done much as a whole, and Mardy Collins looks worse than Roger Mason Jr.
> Their "hustle" big guys, Malik Rose and Jerome James, are combining for less than 17 mpg.
> 
> The Knicks are who we THOUGHT they were. They ARE who we THOUGHT they were!! Crown em.


Anyone catch Nate Robinson's dunk contest-oop dunk attempt/travel/missed dunk? Shouldn't the commish step in and force a forfeit because of that one play by Nate? Did he not know that sky-dribbling a pass to yourself is against the rules?!? Just unbelievable that he would try that crap in a game! I love this game!

I have such mixed emotions about having our draft status tied to that team. They're so unreliable and unpredictable that we can't even trust them to lose correctly.


----------



## The ROY

6-11 or 6-12 after that loss to Detriot?


----------



## kulaz3000

The ROY said:


> 6-11 or 6-12 after that loss to Detriot?


6 and 12


----------



## charlietyra

Curry has three straight games of 24+ points or better and Crawford is becoming the best shooter in the Knicks backcourt. 

Not that I would want to start a controversy (or anything like that) but I would trade the two Bens to NY in a heartbeat for Eddy and Crawford.


----------



## Hustle

Knicks have 6 straight home games against non-playoff teams except one against the Wiz. If they can't go .500 or better with these games, things will get super ugly in NY.


----------



## McBulls

charlietyra said:


> Curry has three straight games of 24+ points or better and Crawford is becoming the best shooter in the Knicks backcourt.
> 
> Not that I would want to start a controversy (or anything like that) but I would trade the two Bens to NY in a heartbeat for Eddy and Crawford.


After all the effort Paxson made to get rid of these two and avoid taking on their long-term contracts I wouldn't hold my breath on that trade, but I'm sure even IT would be smart enough to take you up on it. 

Ben Wallace (great defense, great rebounding, high BB IQ, poor scorer) > Curry (poor defense, little rebounding, low BB IQ, great scorer). In addition, Ben Gordon > Crawford. Might be just enough to make NY a playoff team and save IT's job.


----------



## charlietyra

McBulls said:


> After all the effort Paxson made to get rid of these two and avoid taking on their long-term contracts I wouldn't hold my breath on that trade, but I'm sure even IT would be smart enough to take you up on it.
> 
> Ben Wallace (great defense, great rebounding, high BB IQ, poor scorer) > Curry (poor defense, little rebounding, low BB IQ, great scorer). In addition, Ben Gordon > Crawford. Might be just enough to make NY a playoff team and save IT's job.


And Ben W. doesn't have a bad contract? If, in fact, Ben was playing defense and rebounding like a $60 million player should I would agree with you. But, so far, he has not only been a bust on the court but also has been a disruptive force. Do you think he will play better defense and rebound better three years from now? You couldn't give this guy away.


----------



## LuolDeng

Texas got spanked but Durant with 29/8. 10-10 FT.

20+ pts in every game this year.

Stud.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

KHinrich12 said:


> Texas got spanked but Durant with 29/8. 10-10 FT.
> 
> 20+ pts in every game this year.
> 
> Stud.


I don't like the fact that he's listed at only 6' 9", 204. 

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31579

That sounds like another small forward, and a skinny one at that. 

The only difference is I'll bet the farm he'll score more than any of the forwards/bigs on the current Bulls. Could he be the answer for the Bulls?


----------



## The ROY

I coulda swore Kevin Durant was listed at 6"11 all last year. Hell, his size was the thing that made him the most unique with the type of skill he posesses.

Knicks just lost again

That pick is looking better every day


----------



## Shabadoo

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I don't like the fact that he's listed at only 6' 9", 204.
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31579
> 
> That sounds like another small forward, and a skinny one at that.
> 
> The only difference is I'll bet the farm he'll score more than any of the forwards/bigs on the current Bulls. Could he be the answer for the Bulls?


At the apex of a strong draft, such as this one, one has to take the best player available and worry about the consequences soon after. Durant is a guy that seems to be a legitimate franchise player- something that can't be said about any current member of the Bulls. It shouldn't matter that the 3 is our deepest position.

It's about time that Pax rolled the dice a little (if taking what is clearly one of the most talented players is a gamble). He's been so enamoured with defensive jibbernauts that we seem to be accentuating mediocrity rather than advancing towards the chip. Take someone of offensive persuasion; someone to add that scoring spark to an otherwise hard-nosed team. If we're in the position to get him, I think he'd be the Batman in a team full of Robins.

Note: Draftexpress say's he's 6'10".


----------



## The ROY

One thing we can say is, he's going to be a superstar, so if we have the chance to draft him? He HAS to be kept.


----------



## theanimal23

Shabadoo said:


> At the apex of a strong draft, such as this one, one has to take the best player available and worry about the consequences soon after. Durant is a guy that seems to be a legitimate franchise player- something that can't be said about any current member of the Bulls. It shouldn't matter that the 3 is our deepest position.
> 
> It's about time that Pax rolled the dice a little (if taking what is clearly one of the most talented players is a gamble). He's been so enamoured with defensive jibbernauts that we seem to be accentuating mediocrity rather than advancing towards the chip. Take someone of offensive persuasion; someone to add that scoring spark to an otherwise hard-nosed team. If we're in the position to get him, I think he'd be the Batman in a team full of Robins.
> 
> Note: Draftexpress say's he's 6'10".


I agree. ALWAYS draft *TALENT OVER NEED*.

You can make the moves later to balance the roster, but you do not take an inferior player. I just want a top 2 pick. But my gut says that Oden will not come out unless OSU wins it all. It's just me, but I think he will want to enjoy the college experience and want to play a full season. It also depends how close he is with Conley (?) his HS buddy. Maybe he will convince Oden to come back.

Oden will definitely solidify our roster for the next 10 years. He is advertised being ready for the defensive grind of the NBA. I do think he is raw on offense, but with that size, if he can develop some game, he will be tough to stop. 

Durant, wow. From everything that I have read, incredible shooting ability. A taller TMAC, but perhaps a better shooter (?). I have read things that he is a "Glen Rice." 

I can't find highlights of him @ Texas though.

I don't think Paxson will pass up Durant if we get the 2nd pick. But the kid is filling the stat sheet. Is he quick enough or have the handles to play the 2?


----------



## Hustle

*Durant*
I don't like the TMac comparision really, he's more of a wealthy man's Rashard Lewis(and I almost feel like that's an insult). Will probably step right into the NBA and be the best shooter for his height. I don't think there is any way he is 6'9", he was very noticably taller than the other guys listed at 6'9".

I don't see him playing any 2, no definitive reason, but like other well rounded stars like James and Garnett, it's in the teams best interest to have him where he is best(3). He put on 20 pounds this summer so a couple years from now he might just be a legit power forward.


----------



## JeremyB0001

I disagree that you _always_ draft the best talent regardless of position. The lower you get in the draft the less likely you are to land a star player and the closer in talent the players generally become. If the Bulls land in the top 4 or 6 you have to take the best player but beyond that under most circumstances it would be unwise to draft a wing or a guard. If the Bulls are drafting 8th, there might be a guard available that is 6th on their board and a frontcourt player who is 8th on their board. The problem with saying the team should draft the better talent there is that half the other teams in the league probably have the guy who's 6th ranked higher than the guy who the Bulls have 8th.

The Bulls would have a good but very difficult problem if they somehow landed a player like Durant. There's already a log jam at SF with Deng and to a lesser extent Noc and Tyrus. Honestly, as good as someone like Durant is, I don't see the Bulls trading arguably their best player to make room. I think they would have to deal with the log jam for a little while with someone eventually changing positions.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

JeremyB0001 said:


> I disagree that you _always_ draft the best talent regardless of position. The lower you get in the draft the less likely you are to land a star player and the closer in talent the players generally become. If the Bulls land in the top 4 or 6 you have to take the best player but beyond that under most circumstances it would be unwise to draft a wing or a guard. If the Bulls are drafting 8th, there might be a guard available that is 6th on their board and a frontcourt player who is 8th on their board. The problem with saying the team should draft the better talent there is that half the other teams in the league probably have the guy who's 6th ranked higher than the guy who the Bulls have 8th.
> 
> The Bulls would have a good but very difficult problem if they somehow landed a player like Durant. There's already a log jam at SF with Deng and to a lesser extent Noc and Tyrus. Honestly, as good as someone like Durant is, I don't see the Bulls trading arguably their best player to make room. I think they would have to deal with the log jam for a little while with someone eventually changing positions.


I agree to an extent. You pick best player available, regardless of position, unless you already have absolute stars (plural) at that position and there's no chance that the new guy would be better. I know this brings up the Drexler/Jordan talk, but both of those had good enough size that Drexler could've moved to SF. I feel that right now, aside from Kirk, the 2 guys on our team with the brightest future and best all-pro potential are Deng and Thomas, so it would be tough to justify taking another smaller, quicker, athletic F. But I also don't think you pass up on an elite talent. It's not like Thomas and Deng are Pippen and Duncan in their primes. Of course ideally we'd get a SG with Jordan or Vince Carter's skill sets......should be scouting out more Tarheels??? or Oden at C. 

Basically, the way I see it is we have absolutely NO players that are so good they couldn't be upgraded. The 3 players I see as key components for the long term are Deng (SF/sg??), Kirk (PG), Tyrus (PF/SF). Thabo could very well turn out to be a really good player too, but will he have the skill to be a SG...I question his shooting ability too much, at least in the next few years. At PG he'd just be a backup. Big Ben...too old. Lil Ben....too streaky and small, but great at times. So basically the positions of need IMO are SG and C. If we could move Deng to SG (which I don't think he's suited for) that would leave PF or SF as a need (whichever Tyrus doesn't play). 

Would it be possible to play Deng, Tyrus and Durant together as starters? Would they be able to guard opposing SGs? We'd have a lot of length and athleticism out there that way, and it'd be fun to watch, assuming we could get the mismatches to work in our favor instead of against us. 

I know that Tyler Hansbrough of North Carolina isn't a need, but wondering what you guys thought of him as an NBA player. I'm a Tarheel fan, but I can't make up my mind on what kind of a player he'd be in the NBA. He's got all kinds of "jib", but not the freakish athlete that Pax seems to like so much IMO...what do you all think of him in the NBA?


----------



## charlietyra

DaBabyBullz said:


> I know that Tyler Hansbrough of North Carolina isn't a need, but wondering what you guys thought of him as an NBA player. I'm a Tarheel fan, but I can't make up my mind on what kind of a player he'd be in the NBA. He's got all kinds of "jib", but not the freakish athlete that Pax seems to like so much IMO...what do you all think of him in the NBA?



Undersized, average athlete, great jib. In other words, the perfect draft choice for Pax/Skiles.


----------



## Hustle

I certainly feel like Durant is an elite talent worthy of altering our roster. Really only Deng or Nocioni would have to go right away. I still see Tyrus as being a 4 longterm.

Hansbrough would be a horrible pick for the Bulls. I don't think the Bulls will be in the late lottery so he probably won't even be on the radar. Hansbrough to me looks like a slightly taller Corliss Williamson.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

charlietyra said:


> Undersized, average athlete, great jib. In other words, the perfect draft choice for Pax/Skiles.


LOL, I thought that too. His work ethic and effort is amazing, so that makes him fit the Bulls. But if the last draft is an indication of what Paxson looks for in players now, he wants long, athletic guys, so that isn't Hansbrough. I personally question how effective he'll be in the NBA, and if he'll go high or not. He'd be a great pickup late I think...good role-player off the bench. I think he'll be kinda like that ugly dude from Duke that Atlanta drafted this year...Shelden Williams. Undersized (6'9" 245 lbs...decent bulk but shorter for a PF) but semi-effective due to effort and playing style. That kinda what you were thinking Charlie?


----------



## DaBabyBullz

Hustle said:


> I certainly feel like Durant is an elite talent worthy of altering our roster. Really only Deng or Nocioni would have to go right away. I still see Tyrus as being a 4 longterm.
> 
> Hansbrough would be a horrible pick for the Bulls. I don't think the Bulls will be in the late lottery so he probably won't even be on the radar. Hansbrough to me looks like a slightly taller Corliss Williamson.


I wasn't referring to Hansbrough as a potential Bulls pick early in the draft. Was just a question about him in general, how you see his game transitioning to the NBA...stuff like that. 

In context of the Bulls taking him though, he'd be a big upgrade over all of our Bigs on the bench right now IMO, seeing as how they all suck. Sweets, Allen, PJ, etc. If by chance we had a late 1st rounder or 2nd rounder I think he'd be a good pick.


----------



## Hustle

DaBabyBullz said:


> I wasn't referring to Hansbrough as a potential Bulls pick early in the draft. Was just a question about him in general, how you see his game transitioning to the NBA...stuff like that.
> 
> In context of the Bulls taking him though, he'd be a big upgrade over all of our Bigs on the bench right now IMO, seeing as how they all suck. Sweets, Allen, PJ, etc. If by chance we had a late 1st rounder or 2nd rounder I think he'd be a good pick.


I agree, he'd probably play over our back ups, his biggest knock(besides height) is probably athleticsim and none of the guys you mentioned have any. Hansbrough will be a solid player, just saying he's not at all what I'm hoping for. I think he will be slightly more effective than Corliss, they are really the same exact player but Hansbrough has an inch or 2.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

Hustle said:


> I agree, he'd probably play over our back ups, his biggest knock(besides height) is probably athleticsim and none of the guys you mentioned have any. Hansbrough will be a solid player, just saying he's not at all what I'm hoping for. I think he will be slightly more effective than Corliss, they are really the same exact player but Hansbrough has an inch or 2.


I can see that comparison to an extent. He's not what I want out of our 1st rounder next year either, unless we have 2 and can take him late. We do definitely need to upgrade our bigs big-time. I'll go on record and say that if we have our choice in the draft, I'd take Oden or Durant, and after those 2 it'd be just best player, whether that be a SG or a PF/C. You never know though, Tyler could go way earlier than expected...I mean who would've ever guessed that Shelden Williams would go #5 or w/e he went? I figured he'd be lucky to even be in the lottery...I know I wouldn't have taken him anywhere that early, if in the 1st round at all.


----------



## badfish

charlietyra said:


> Undersized, average athlete, great jib. In other words, the perfect draft choice for Pax/Skiles.



Name one undersized, average athlete that John Paxson has selected. I take it your point has more to do with our first rounders than second rounders.

I'm not having a go at you. But, I am curious why this PaxSkiles myth continues.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

badfish said:


> Name one undersized, average athlete that John Paxson has selected. I take it your point has more to do with our first rounders than second rounders.
> 
> I'm not having a go at you. But, I am curious why this PaxSkiles myth continues.


Well, I don't agree with him that Pax likes taking that type of player, but Hinrich doesn't have great athleticism, and Lil Ben is definitely undersized. Other than that, I don't see too many undersized, non-athletic guys being picked by Pax either.


----------



## badfish

DaBabyBullz said:


> Well, I don't agree with him that Pax likes taking that type of player, but Hinrich doesn't have great athleticism, and Lil Ben is definitely undersized. Other than that, I don't see too many undersized, non-athletic guys being picked by Pax either.


That's my point. Ben is undersized but has greater than average athleticism. Kirk is not an all-world athlete, but I do believe he scored above average in the combine. And, he is not undersized. Besides, the Deng, Thomas and Sefolosha picks render his point moot and quite laughable.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

badfish said:


> That's my point. Ben is undersized but has greater than average athleticism. Kirk is not an all-world athlete, but I do believe he scored above average in the combine. And, he is not undersized. Besides, the Deng, Thomas and Sefolosha picks render his point moot and quite laughable.


Yeah, Sef, Deng and TT were what came to mind when I read it too. Ben has very good athleticism I think, but he definitely fills the undersized description. I don't know how Kirk scored in the combine, but by watching him I'd say he's average. He's a skill/effort type of player, not one of those guards that has blazing speed....his size and athleticism are average IMO. He did have a point about Tyler fitting the Pax mold to a T as far as the mental aspect is concerned though.


----------



## JeremyB0001

Hustle said:


> I certainly feel like Durant is an elite talent worthy of altering our roster. Really only Deng or Nocioni would have to go right away. I still see Tyrus as being a 4 longterm.


I agree. It appears he's worthy of altering any team's roster. I can't think of too many instances of teams trading their best player and so far this season Deng has been our best player at the riple old age of 21. I don't think that means you do something crazy like pass on Durant but you have to be creative and maybe have Durant come off the bench as a rookie and eventually move one of them to the 2 or 4.


----------



## JeremyB0001

Since he had a big day today, what does everyone think about this guy if we land in the late lottery? He's very raw offensively so he wouldn't fill our need for someone who can draw a double team in the post but he would fill the need for more size in the front court.

Unless there's a consolidation trade coming - which I'm generally opposed to considering the players that are currently available - it might not be a bad idea to take a player who's a bit of a project to alleviate the crunch for playing time that we have right now.


----------



## theanimal23

JeremyB0001 said:


> I agree. It appears he's worthy of altering any team's roster. I can't think of too many instances of teams trading their best player and so far this season Deng has been our best player at the riple old age of 21. I don't think that means you do something crazy like pass on Durant but you have to be creative and maybe have Durant come off the bench as a rookie and eventually move one of them to the 2 or 4.


I would not make any trade immediately around the draft. I would wait and see what kind of deal Noce signs and what Deng will expect to sign. If we can't afford to pay 3 guys huge deals if Durant turns out to be the real thing, we can make a trade. On the other hand, you can never have too much talent.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

JeremyB0001 said:


> I agree. It appears he's worthy of altering any team's roster. I can't think of too many instances of teams trading their best player and so far this season Deng has been our best player at the riple old age of 21. I don't think that means you do something crazy like pass on Durant but you have to be creative and maybe have Durant come off the bench as a rookie and eventually move one of them to the 2 or 4.


That is kinda what I was talking about before, having Durant, Deng, and Thomas all playing at the same time, possibly Deng at the 2, and Durant/Thomas at the 3 or 4, whichever they are best suited for. That would be an insanely athletic group right there. Especially if you throw in Sefolosha at the PG at times, and that is a very very athletic, long group, and center would be our only weakness then. (Yes, I consider C our weakness now cause "Big" Ben isn't "big" enough)


----------



## Da Grinch

badfish said:


> Name one undersized, average athlete that John Paxson has selected. I take it your point has more to do with our first rounders than second rounders.
> 
> I'm not having a go at you. But, I am curious why this PaxSkiles myth continues.


it doesn''t have much to do with 1st round draft picks ( a lil' but not much) but it has alot to do with whom he has aquired in trades and in free agent signings ....since the bulls on the whole are undersized and have some of those undersized players also being avg. to below avg. athletically .


----------



## Da Grinch

DaBabyBullz said:


> Yeah, Sef, Deng and TT were what came to mind when I read it too. Ben has very good athleticism I think, but he definitely fills the undersized description. I don't know how Kirk scored in the combine, but by watching him I'd say he's average. He's a skill/effort type of player, not one of those guards that has blazing speed....his size and athleticism are average IMO. He did have a point about Tyler fitting the Pax mold to a T as far as the mental aspect is concerned though.



kirk i believe was 7th overall at the combine ....which is great but it has to come with the knowledge that he was a senoir and scored higher than alot of guys whom have developed into superior atheletes since then.


----------



## TripleDouble

Da Grinch said:


> kirk i believe was 7th overall at the combine ....which is great but it has to come with the knowledge that he was a senoir and scored higher than alot of guys whom have developed into superior atheletes since then.


Are 22 year olds more athletic than 19 and 20 year olds? The test I could see as being advantagous for the older player is the bench press.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

TripleDouble said:


> Are 22 year olds more athletic than 19 and 20 year olds? The test I could see as being advantagous for the older player is the bench press.


Well, it varies of course, but I know that I personally was more athletic at 20-21 than I was at 18. A lot more coordination, and especially strength as you alluded to. Now if you factor in that if they're in a college sports program, they're hitting the weights and working out constantly, so I'd imagine that 4 years in college would add a heck of a lot of athleticism.


----------



## TripleDouble

DaBabyBullz said:


> Well, it varies of course, but I know that I personally was more athletic at 20-21 than I was at 18. A lot more coordination, and especially strength as you alluded to. Now if you factor in that if they're in a college sports program, they're hitting the weights and working out constantly, so I'd imagine that 4 years in college would add a heck of a lot of athleticism.


But as you get stronger, don't you lose some quickness?


----------



## Hustle

Strength doesn't always inhibit athleticism by any means. I think likely it was strength and/or conditioning that made Babybulls feel more athletic(some strength just comes with age), I don't think your potential gets any better with age. There is a breaking point where muscle will hurt your athleticism, but some can certainly help.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

TripleDouble said:


> But as you get stronger, don't you lose some quickness?


I don't think so. With me, I didn't start lifting weights till college, and I packed on about 40 lbs by the time I was 20 (my junior year) and I was a lot faster, quicker, more agile. I had better balance too cause I was working all the muscles everywhere, like the side of the abs, lower back, butt, etc. Of course if I had kept going, I think by the time I hit like 240 or so (if that was possible..I went from 175 to 215 or 220 and was kind of plateaud) I imagine I'd have lost some agility/speed. That's called muscle-bound then. I never got to find out due to injuries...had to quit.

If you want proof that getting stronger and more muscular doesn't slow you down, go watch the olympic sprinters. The American that won the 200 in the last olympics bench pressed like 450 lbs or something like that...he was HUGE!!! Looked like an NFL Linebacker or Defensive Lineman...not exaggerating either. I can't think of his name, but it wasn't Gatlin..he won the 100 not the 200...this guy was his training partner. Gatlin is a muscular dude too, but nowhere near as ripped as the 200 winner was.


----------



## kingofkings

I think the basis of the pick depends on the development of Tyrus Thomas and the teams beliefs in his game. If they think that he can be an integral part of the defense and rebounding side of the game, the Bulls should have the luxury of taking the best offensive player available at the pick.It's really becoming a crucial draft pick to consolidate what the Bulls already have. I think they just need to inject a bit more offense in the side. I think the team has been built for the playoffs, with the rugged guys in Wallace, Brown, Nocioni. Guys who you need in the trenches when the game gets hot.

I reckon the Knicks are going to really fold down the stretch when the proverbial sh...t hits the fan.When it becomes apparent that Thomas is going to get canned, the crappy play of their guards, the lack of defense etc is going to come to a head and the team will really fall over.Isiah Thomas will probably go into self preservation mode down the stretch and try for some cheap wins and play the vets as much as possible and judging by the overated vets on his team, that could be his downfall.Marbury, Francis, etc playing with nothing really to play for.

The question is, where will Isiah show up next?


----------



## Hustle

Florida's bigs came up small in another loss. They each played only 26 minutes, and combined for 8 FG attempts. I just don't see IT in these kids like others do. Noah just dropped out of my top 3 for sure and likely will fall much further(at 3 I was giving him the benefit of the doubt and at 4 I feel like I'm doing the same). 

Al Thorton and Julian Wright have both had career games on them this season.


----------



## JeremyB0001

kingofkings said:


> I reckon the Knicks are going to really fold down the stretch when the proverbial sh...t hits the fan.When it becomes apparent that Thomas is going to get canned, the crappy play of their guards, the lack of defense etc is going to come to a head and the team will really fall over.Isiah Thomas will probably go into self preservation mode down the stretch and try for some cheap wins and play the vets as much as possible and judging by the overated vets on his team, that could be his downfall.Marbury, Francis, etc playing with nothing really to play for.


Our biggest concern should be Isiah getting fired. Changing coaches almost always leads to improved initially (of course that didn't get the Knicks very far at the start of this season).


----------



## Hustle

More importantly another coach would be more inclined to give Nate Robinson and Marbury more bench time. Those 2 are "cancers" for that team.


----------



## TripleDouble

DaBabyBullz said:


> I don't think so. With me, I didn't start lifting weights till college, and I packed on about 40 lbs by the time I was 20 (my junior year) and I was a lot faster, quicker, more agile. I had better balance too cause I was working all the muscles everywhere, like the side of the abs, lower back, butt, etc. Of course if I had kept going, I think by the time I hit like 240 or so (if that was possible..I went from 175 to 215 or 220 and was kind of plateaud) I imagine I'd have lost some agility/speed. That's called muscle-bound then. I never got to find out due to injuries...had to quit.
> 
> If you want proof that getting stronger and more muscular doesn't slow you down, go watch the olympic sprinters. The American that won the 200 in the last olympics bench pressed like 450 lbs or something like that...he was HUGE!!! Looked like an NFL Linebacker or Defensive Lineman...not exaggerating either. I can't think of his name, but it wasn't Gatlin..he won the 100 not the 200...this guy was his training partner. Gatlin is a muscular dude too, but nowhere near as ripped as the 200 winner was.


Its strange then that you often hear that a high schooler drafted by and NBA team has grown or gotten stronger but I've never come across and article about a HSer getting more athletic after entering the pros.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

TripleDouble said:


> Its strange then that you often hear that a high schooler drafted by and NBA team has grown or gotten stronger but I've never come across and article about a HSer getting more athletic after entering the pros.


I think you see that quite often really. When a young 7 footer comes into the league it takes a while for him to "grow into his body", so I'd say that they definitely get more athletic. At the same time, when you see a guard come into the league out of high school, Kobe Bryant for example, they're probably early bloomers or they wouldn't have had the athleticism to go pro right away. It really just depends on how much they worked out in high school, and if they were late bloomers or not. I personally had never lifted weights till college, and was a late bloomer both. I wasn't a wuss or anything when I graduated, as I had worked on a farm all my life, but definitely wasn't a weight lifter, and targeting specific muscle groups adds to your coordination and agility more than you'd think.


----------



## yodurk

I haven't kept up with this thread, but I recently caught a glimpse of Kevin Durant's stat sheet so far.

23.3 ppg in 30 minutes?!?! 
45% on 3-pointers?!  
93% free throw shooter?!  x 10
1.4 steals and 2.4 blocks?! (you get the idea)

Would it be outrageous to take this kid over Greg Oden, regardless of position? He looks like a LOCK to be a superstar.


----------



## El Chapu

I have heard of so many "locks" to be superstars....Im not taking nothing away from Durant, but Oden is the #1 pick if he declares. Durant is as good of consolation prize as you can get.


----------



## lgtwins

El Chapu said:


> I have heard of so many "locks" to be superstars....Im not taking nothing away from Durant, but Oden is the #1 pick if he declares. Durant is as good of consolation prize as you can get.


Like Wade was a good consolidation prize at No. 5 when it was three man lottery back in 2004? 

Seriously Durant has just as good chance as Oden to become a super star. 

I will be more than happy with Durant IF we can't get Oden although nothing is guaranted at this point (except wishing Knick sucks big time this season).


----------



## El Chapu

lgtwins said:


> Like Wade was a good consolidation prize at No. 5 when it was three man lottery back in 2004?
> 
> Seriously Durant has just as good chance as Oden to become a super star.
> 
> I will be more than happy with Durant IF we can't get Oden although nothing is guaranted at this point (except wishing Knick sucks big time this season).


But no one expected Wade to be THIS good, or remotely close. Durant is "expected" to be a franchise player. Same for Oden. But guys like Durant come more often and are not as hard to find as a legit franchise center in a league that has 2 or 3 dominant players at that position.


----------



## lgtwins

El Chapu said:


> <b>But no one expected Wade to be THIS good</b>, or remotely close. Durant is "expected" to be a franchise player. Same for Oden. But guys like Durant come more often and are not as hard to find as a legit franchise center in a league that has 2 or 3 dominant players at that position.


<b>I did although nobody around me took me for real at that time. </b> Anyway, I like what I saw in Durant so far just like I did with Wade's play back then. How Durant will do during the March madness will be an ultimate test , and it will be intersting to follow.


----------



## yodurk

El Chapu said:


> But no one expected Wade to be THIS good, or remotely close. Durant is "expected" to be a franchise player. Same for Oden. But guys like Durant come more often and are not as hard to find as a legit franchise center in a league that has 2 or 3 dominant players at that position.


I agree, I would take Oden #1 because he plays a position we need, AND he's about as can't miss as it gets. BUT...Durant also looks pretty can't miss by this point. How many 6'10 guys dominate college basketball as much as he has, from the outset of their freshman season? I think Oden and Durant are the no-brainer 1 and 2 picks no matter how you look at it.


----------



## Bulls96

It is obvious, that the following teams (with exception of NY) have decided to take their chances in Oden’s sweepstake :

1.Memphis
2.Charlotte
3.Philadelphia
4.Boston
5.NY

I don't think NY will be able to "compete" for the first four spots. Four above mentioned teams are looking very determine and surely heading in that direction. IMO, there is no need to talk about Oden or Durant (unless we get extremely lucky). 

So, who is the best C or PF will be available between the fifth and seventh picks ?


----------



## The ROY

Bulls96 said:


> It is obvious, that the following teams (with exception of NY) have decided to take their chances in Oden’s sweepstake :
> 
> 1.Memphis
> 2.Charlotte
> 3.Philadelphia
> 4.Boston
> 5.NY
> 
> I don't think NY will be able to "compete" for the first four spots. Four above mentioned teams are looking very determine and surely heading in that direction. IMO, there is no need to talk about Oden or Durant (unless we get extremely lucky).
> 
> So, who is the best C or PF will be available between the fifth and seventh picks ?


Well, it's a lottery...so as long as NY is a top 5-7 pick, we'll always have a SHOT at landing the top two picks....

Can't say who the other best PF or C's are because no one besides Durant & ODen have showed us much

Horford looks pretty average

Noah looks pretty average

Glen Davis is KILLING but he's still another Michael Sweetney...

Haven't seen much Spencer Hawes


----------



## Bulls96

The ROY said:


> Well, it's a lottery...so as long as NY is a top 5-7 pick, we'll always have a SHOT at landing the top two picks....
> 
> Can't say who the other best PF or C's are because no one besides Durant & ODen have showed us much
> 
> Horford looks pretty average
> 
> Noah looks pretty average
> 
> Glen Davis is KILLING but he's still another Michael Sweetney...
> 
> Haven't seen much Spencer Hawes


Thanks Roy.

I am not sure how to do that but, it makes sense for Bulls to establish some sort of strategy geared toward maximizing Nick’s chances at landing the top two picks.

1.Win all four games vs. NY
2.Win games against the team that have next schedule against NY.
3.Win only 50% games against the first four or three “bottom“teams.
4.Try to obtain at least one more first round draft pick (trade PJ, Du or TT).
5.“Negotiate” with IT.
6.“Negotiate” with referees who oversee any of NY’s game.
7.Bulls need negotiate with Oden or Durant and ask them to slow down their performance, in order to drop their market values.


Please don’t judge me too hard for some methods :angel:


----------



## McBulls

Bulls96 said:


> Thanks Roy.
> 
> I am not sure how to do that but, it makes sense for Bulls to establish some sort of strategy geared toward maximizing Nick’s chances at landing the top two picks.
> 
> 1.Win all four games vs. NY
> 2.Win games against the team that have next schedule against NY.
> 3.Win only 50% games against the first four or three “bottom“teams.
> 4.Try to obtain at least one more first round draft pick (trade PJ, Du or TT).
> 5.“Negotiate” with IT.
> 6.“Negotiate” with referees who oversee any of NY’s game.
> 7.Bulls need negotiate with Oden or Durant and ask them to slow down their performance, in order to drop their market values.
> 
> 
> Please don’t judge me too hard for some methods :angel:


Alternative plan:
1. Trade 2007 & 2008 1st rounders, 2 2007 2nd rounders, 2 2008 2nd rounders, Khryapa, Marty, Griffin, the rights to Austin, and take on a bad contract to move up in the draft.
2. Win the lottery.


----------



## Hustle

The ROY said:
 

> Can't say who the other best PF or C's are because no one besides Durant & ODen have showed us much


I know those are the only 2 guys dominating but I think your under estimating how well others are playing for freshman. Arthur, BWright, Budinger, DCook, Young even Thabeet who's numbers aren't great has shown a lot of promise. All those guys are lotto material already.

Walker may well add to that when he starts playing next week.

I haven't seen any of Hawes or Pondexter but their #'s are pretty good for a fresh as well.

Noah is still at least the same player he was last year, a player that would've likely been taken #2 instead of TT last year, maybe even #1. McRoberts has been a big dissapointment so far, but he does have the skills to make himself a very high pick, I think his team is bringing him down a bit(worst Duke team in a long while).


----------



## Bulls96

McBulls said:


> Alternative plan:
> 1. Trade 2007 & 2008 1st rounders, 2 2007 2nd rounders, 2 2008 2nd rounders, Khryapa, Marty, Griffin, the rights to Austin, and take on a bad contract to move up in the draft.
> 2. Win the lottery.



Yes my friend …whatever it takes is good with me 

IMo, Mr. Scrooge, Nice Policemen and Short Dictator need to have something in their mind now and follow it accordingly.


----------



## THEbigO

i like thabeet and brandon wright. wright is a power foward though and depending on the position we finally choose to keep tyrus at then thabeet is a good option. i mean i dont know if anybody has watched this guy play but he is big. 7+ ft. tall and is quite athletic. he can get off the floor and block shots, and considering his height and jumping ability i assume he can dunk over people as well.


----------



## theanimal23

Eddy with 32 points at the end of the 3rd vs the Bucks. JC with 24. Knicks up by 17. I think they will just miss the playoffs, but we won't get Oden. I miss Curry. He had a stretch like this just before he was diagnosed with an irregular heartbeat. He had 21 vs the Pacers in the 1st Qtr the week he got hospitalized. I hope he does well, but I hope the Knicks continue to lose.

Sucks, a few teams might beat out the Knicks for lotto balls: Philly, especially after losing AI, Boston, the Bucks, Grizz, Blazers, Bobcats. 

C'mon Isiah, make a trade. Add another guard.


----------



## theanimal23

Bucks down by 5 now


----------



## DaBullz

Knicks are .5 games out of first place in their division.


----------



## Pioneer10

DaBullz said:


> Knicks are .5 games out of first place in their division.


With the Atlantic if you miss getting into the playoffs by 0.5 games you still have a great chance at the number 1 pick lol


----------



## The ROY

IMO, Kevin Durant is the TRUE must-have player so far with the pick :

23.3 ppg
9.4 rpg
2.4 bpg
2.0 apg
1.4 spg

IMAGINE how incredible this dude will playing when the madness begins :yay:


----------



## THEbigO

with eddy curry playing like this and steve francis out, there is one less "shoot first" guy out there and a legit inside option every play. they will win games. its not looking to good for the pick swap. the knicks are looking better every game.


----------



## The ROY

They still SUCK and we're still getting a top 10 pick from em regardless.

We all knew we'd have to get pretty lucky for them to be bad enough to land a top 2 pick but we'll still have some very strong options in the top ten.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

There's one thing you guys gotta remember out the probability of the worst team getting the #1. Even if you have the worst record, there's still a 75% chance you will NOT get the #1 pick. So though you have the best chance to win, you're still not very likely at all to win the #1. I'm sure you all knew that, just a little reminder. We just have to hope they don't win their division and that they miss the playoffs more than anything...at least then there's a chance. Of course I'm routing for the Knicks to lose EVERY game, as I have my whole entire life, but now I have extra incentive to cheer against them. (Well, I hate Kobe and the Lakers even more now, so maybe if the pick wasn't involved I'd be pulling for the former Bulls on the Knicks against them but that's about it).


----------



## DaBabyBullz

The ROY said:


> They still SUCK and we're still getting a top 10 pick from em regardless.
> 
> We all knew we'd have to get pretty lucky for them to be bad enough to land a top 2 pick but we'll still have some very strong options in the top ten.


Yeah, they do suck, BUT, look at their division right now lol. 

New Jersey 7-12
New York 8-14
Toronto 7-13
Boston 6-13
Philadelphia 5-14 

So as previously stated, they're only .5 games out of first in their division, even though they're the 11th team in the Eastern conference right now. That doesn't matter if they are in the bottom 5 overall, if they win their division they're in. That's why it shouldn't be decided by division, but by overall records. If it were based on records, and the playoffs started today, there'd be 4 from the Central, and 2 from the Southeast in the playoffs. The top team from the Atlantic would be the 10th seed as of now lol. 

I think that in the end though, New Jersey will start playing better and win the division. However, you never know what will happen.


----------



## TripleDouble

DaBabyBullz said:


> Yeah, they do suck, BUT, look at their division right now lol.
> 
> New Jersey 7-12
> New York 8-14
> Toronto 7-13
> Boston 6-13
> Philadelphia 5-14
> 
> So as previously stated, they're only .5 games out of first in their division, even though they're the 11th team in the Eastern conference right now. That doesn't matter if they are in the bottom 5 overall, if they win their division they're in. That's why it shouldn't be decided by division, but by overall records. If it were based on records, and the playoffs started today, there'd be 4 from the Central, and 2 from the Southeast in the playoffs. The top team from the Atlantic would be the 10th seed as of now lol.
> 
> I think that in the end though, New Jersey will start playing better and win the division. However, you never know what will happen.


Brings up an interesting hypothetical: Should the Bulls make a trade with an Atlantic conference team to improve that team and increase the Bulls chances of landing a good pick from the Knicks? 

I jest, but still...


----------



## DaBabyBullz

TripleDouble said:


> Brings up an interesting hypothetical: Should the Bulls make a trade with an Atlantic conference team to improve that team and increase the Bulls chances of landing a good pick from the Knicks?
> 
> I jest, but still...


Well, as I stated before, I think the Nets should win that division easily. I can't believe they're playing as badly as they must be right now...unless someone is injured or there was a trade that I don't know about? You'd think that a team with Jason Kidd, my boy Vince Carter, and Richard Jefferson would be pretty good...certainly better than their current record and the damn Knickerbockers. I just looked at their roster, and the rest are no-names, except 40 year old Clifford Robinson and to a lesser extent rookies Josh Boone and Marcus Williams.


----------



## TripleDouble

DaBabyBullz said:


> Well, as I stated before, I think the Nets should win that division easily. I can't believe they're playing as badly as they must be right now...unless someone is injured or there was a trade that I don't know about? You'd think that a team with Jason Kidd, my boy Vince Carter, and Richard Jefferson would be pretty good...certainly better than their current record and the damn Knickerbockers. I just looked at their roster, and the rest are no-names, except 40 year old Clifford Robinson and to a lesser extent rookies Josh Boone and Marcus Williams.


Don't forget Kristic. I really don't know what's wrong with them. They could really use a rugged PF, so maybe they'd be interested in PJ.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

TripleDouble said:


> Don't forget Kristic. I really don't know what's wrong with them. They could really use a rugged PF, so maybe they'd be interested in PJ.


Umm, if by a rugged PF you are referring to a old stiff, that looks like his knees don't bend and will give out at any time, then yeah I bet they'd be all for PJ! I sure am looking forward to getting rid of our worthless post players and getting some decent guys in there. Man if only we can get Oden!


----------



## Showtyme

Boy, I really like Kevin Durant out there. What a player.

Oden, Durant, B. Wright... Oden may be better at his position, but Durant and Wright look like mini-KG's to me. Josh McRoberts, for that matter, looks a lot like early-form Chris Webber. He's got that handle, that competitiveness, that jumper, and the soft hands around the hoop, as well as some real gritty athleticism and the presence that occupies a team.

If we land anything in the top 4, I'd be pretty thrilled.


----------



## The ROY

Josh Mcroberts is looking pretty bad this season....definitely isn't looking like a top 10 pick


----------



## DaBabyBullz

Showtyme said:


> Boy, I really like Kevin Durant out there. What a player.
> 
> Oden, Durant, B. Wright... Oden may be better at his position, but Durant and Wright look like mini-KG's to me. Josh McRoberts, for that matter, looks a lot like early-form Chris Webber. He's got that handle, that competitiveness, that jumper, and the soft hands around the hoop, as well as some real gritty athleticism and the presence that occupies a team.
> 
> If we land anything in the top 4, I'd be pretty thrilled.


I think it's safe to say that at #1 you gotta go Oden, unless one of the other ones really surpass him by then. Center is our position of weakness, that could be upgraded the most, and then SG. The other guys are all F, so Oden would definitely be the best fit to fill out our team, seeing how F is by far our strongest position as of now. Imagine a team in the future of:

Hinrich
Gordon
Deng
Thomas
Oden

(assuming they all progress well...Thomas especially)


----------



## kulaz3000

DaBabyBullz said:


> I think it's safe to say that at #1 you gotta go Oden, unless one of the other ones really surpass him by then. Center is our position of weakness, that could be upgraded the most, and then SG. The other guys are all F, so Oden would definitely be the best fit to fill out our team, seeing how F is by far our strongest position as of now. Imagine a team in the future of:
> 
> Hinrich
> Gordon
> Deng
> Thomas
> Oden
> 
> (assuming they all progress well...Thomas especially)


I would not like for Paxson to fall for the trap of drafting need over talent. Over and over again in the history of the draft, GM's have lost their jobs and reputations over drafting needs over obvious talent. Like everyone else i would love Oden, but if we can not, but we're in a position to draft a talented forward, we have to take the forward no matter how loaded we are at the position. Its always best to draft the best talent available and then worry about how he fits afterwards, because if they are talented enough they will get playing time, or they will be trade asset.


----------



## southpark

yea remember how toronto drafted arujo because they needed a center? and look how that turned out


----------



## LegoHat

Drafting Araujo is in no way, shape or form comparable to drafting Greg Oden in my opinion. I don't care if we have four centers at the time of the draft, we draft Oden and build around him if he is available.


----------



## southpark

okay i obviously was not trying to say pass on Oden...drafting him if he's available is a no brainer...but if we had the 6th pick or so and Paxson decided to go for a big body like Hawes (if he enters) or Gray just because we need a C/PF, then I would be angry with him; that's what I was bringing up Arujo for; not comparing him to Oden


----------



## The ROY

NY currently has the 4th worst record in the NBA but I expect that to change when Frye and Jefferies gets back. Still believe the pick will be top 10.

So far, only Philly has entered the Greg Oden sweepstakes, but depending on who they add in the trade, they COULD screw their chances up. If they want the best chance at Oden, go after Boston's young guys, not Biedrins & Davis.

Seattle, Toronto & Portland will be there regardless.

Memphis also will be in the lotto but very low. Pau will give them a boost when he hits the floor. Won't make the playoffs, but definintely won't be the worst team in the NBA.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

kulaz3000 said:


> I would not like for Paxson to fall for the trap of drafting need over talent. Over and over again in the history of the draft, GM's have lost their jobs and reputations over drafting needs over obvious talent. Like everyone else i would love Oden, but if we can not, but we're in a position to draft a talented forward, we have to take the forward no matter how loaded we are at the position. Its always best to draft the best talent available and then worry about how he fits afterwards, because if they are talented enough they will get playing time, or they will be trade asset.


That was pretty much my point. If we had the #1, Oden will most likely be the BPA AND fill a need. I said you have to pick Oden given the chance, UNLESS one of the other players proves to be the superior player by then. IF it's close between him and say Durant for BPA, you still pick him even if Durant has a slight edge, simply because he fills the need, but you don't reach for a player at the position just to fill it. At the same time, if Durant or someone else is a significantly better prospect come draft time, it'd be dumb to pass them up just because Oden is a C and we need a C.


----------



## The ROY

Spencer Hawes has been getting great reviews. Draftexpress stated that he might be the best back-to-the-basket big since Tim Duncan. He still needs development but they say he's already one of the best bigmen in the country.

Nice


----------



## DaBabyBullz

The ROY said:


> Spencer Hawes has been getting great reviews. Draftexpress stated that he might be the best back-to-the-basket big since Tim Duncan. He still needs development but they say he's already one of the best bigmen in the country.
> 
> Nice


I read a preview on him prior to the season, and it sounded like he has a lot of potential anyway. I haven't seen him play, but sounded like he had a lot of versatility and skill. Looking at his #s, he's pretty solid. Decent scoring, rebounding, FG%, FT%, etc. I guess if we don't end up getting one of the top prospects like Durant, Oden, he'd be a good consolation prize, and would fill a need at the same time.


----------



## The ROY

Thru 8 games :

Brandan Wright - 15.1 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.3 bpg, 1.1 spg

Julian Wright - 11.6 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 2.0 bpg, 1.5 spg

Kevin Durant - 21.6 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 2.6 bpg, 1.4 spg

Spencer Hawes - 13.5 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 2.4 bpg

Joakim Noah - 12.7 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.4 bpg, 1.5 spg

Al Horford - 13.2 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 2.1 bpg

Hasheem Thabeet - 6.5 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 5.1 bpg

Thaddeus Young - 13.3 ppg, 5.1 rpg

Greg Oden - 15.0 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 4.0 bpg (after 2 games)


----------



## step

Is Oden still playing left handed?


----------



## TM

He shot foul shots left handed. He still was shooting inside right handed. The total left handed thing was a rumor.

National college debut of your possible 2007 center...

Greg Oden's national debut today vs. Cincy: 3:30 CBS

come talk about it in the official game thread in the Big 10 forum!!!


----------



## DaBabyBullz

TM said:


> He shot foul shots left handed. He still was shooting inside right handed. The total left handed thing was a rumor.
> 
> National college debut of your possible 2007 center...
> 
> Greg Oden's national debut today vs. Cincy: 3:30 CBS
> 
> come talk about it in the official game thread in the Big 10 forum!!!


Oden just shot a low post shot left-handed. He seems almost lost out there at times though IMO. Just kinda roaming around setting weak picks. Nowhere near as dominant as I expected...but I guess he hasn't been playing much due to injuries...could just be that he's not familiar enough with everything yet. To me he's definitely not living up the billing of an elite of the elite guy at this time.


----------



## LegoHat

Oden last night: 14 points on 6-7 shooting, along with 11 rebounds and 5 blocked shots in 27 minutes.

His field goal percentage in college is now 89.5%, just insane.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

LegoHat said:


> Oden last night: 14 points on 6-7 shooting, along with 11 rebounds and 5 blocked shots in 27 minutes.
> 
> His field goal percentage in college is now 89.5%, just insane.


That's pretty funny. I watched 10 minutes (game time) of the game, and saw his only miss then. It was a left-handed shot down in the paint. His FG% is probably high due to the fact that most of them are dunks and he's big enough that most of the time they can't stop his dunks. 

He could've had a lot more rebounds. At least 5 rebounds in the short amount of time I watched the game went by him but he wasn't able to grab them. He has the tools, but right now he's far from polished....I think it's a very good thing he had to go to college, and another year might not hurt him either.


----------



## SALO

LegoHat said:


> Oden last night: 14 points on 6-7 shooting, along with 11 rebounds and 5 blocked shots in 27 minutes.
> 
> His field goal percentage in college is now 89.5%, just insane.


Even more impressive when you consider he's coming off a bad wrist injury. Look at Deng. He's so much better this year because he wasn't limited to what he could do in the offseason. He also said when he came back a year ago his wrist would still bother him at times. Oden isn't even in that great of shape right now, and he's still producing. 

I will say Oden looks a bit underwhelming in terms of his overall speed on the court. Although not as awkward, his speed running up and down the court is comparable to a Mutombo or Ming. In other words he looks a bit slow. But with his size (and still growing!) it shouldn't limit him much.


----------



## The ROY

His strength and atleticism will carry him through his NBA career. I don't think we'll see the TRUE Oden until he gets a couple games under his feet and plays his way into game shape.

If we got him in the draft though? wow...

C Wallace / Oden
F Nocioni / Thomas
F Deng / Khyrapa
G Gordon / Sefolosha
G Hinrich / Duhon

I'd see what protecting the pick top 3 would land me along with P.J. Brown's contract +

Durant, Oden & B. Wright are the only CAN'T-MISS players in this draft IMO. If you're not picking in those spots, you can afford to trade that pick.


----------



## The ROY

Bill Walker made his debut toady with 15pts & 4rebs...

He's coming out this year regardless.


----------



## The ROY

Next 7 for NY :

Utah (at home) LOSS
Charlotte (at home) LOSS
Chicago (at home) LOSS
Philly (at Philly) WIN
Detriot (at home) LOSS
Phoenix (at Phoenix) LOSS
LAC (at LA) LOSS

That would leave them at 10-23 after the month of December.


----------



## McBulls

The ROY said:


> Next 7 for NY :
> 
> Utah (at home) LOSS
> Charlotte (at home) LOSS
> Chicago (at home) LOSS
> Philly (at Philly) WIN
> Detriot (at home) LOSS
> Phoenix (at Phoenix) LOSS
> LAC (at LA) LOSS
> 
> That would leave them at 10-23 after the month of December.


My prediction for the season is that NY gets less than 23 wins. I'll stand by that until I see reason not to.

Curry has had some fun this month getting established as the Knicks first option on offense. Now his teammates want to know if and when he will pass the ball when opponents double team him. They will not be amused by the answer, and Curry will find he gets passed the ball less often for some reason.


----------



## The ROY

McBulls said:


> My prediction for the season is that NY gets less than 23 wins. I'll stand by that until I see reason not to.
> 
> Curry has had some fun this month getting established as the Knicks first option on offense. Now his teammates want to know if and when he will pass the ball when opponents double team him. They will not be amused by the answer, and Curry will find he gets passed the ball less often for some reason.


I can't seem them winning less than 30 games myself. But that would still generate a top 10 pick for us, which is fine by me.


----------



## theanimal23

How many games did they win last year? I'm hoping this fight leads to some long suspensions, and they lose the next 7 or so as ROY pointed out. The best thing for us would be for them to implode like last year, and start pointing fingers.

For some reason, I think the Sixers will end up with Oden. They picked a good year to trade Iverson so they could really tank.


----------



## The ROY

theanimal23 said:


> How many games did they win last year? I'm hoping this fight leads to some long suspensions, and they lose the next 7 or so as ROY pointed out. The best thing for us would be for them to implode like last year, and start pointing fingers.
> 
> For some reason, I think the Sixers will end up with Oden. They picked a good year to trade Iverson so they could really tank.



They won 23 last year..

If Philly ends up with Durant or Oden, they're in great position for the future.

I'd only look at one of those selections & Andre Igoudala as the cornerstones of the franchise.

Korver, Dalembert, Green, Carney...all them should become trade bait...they are absolutely STUCK with webber though unless they buy him out.


----------



## kulaz3000

The ROY said:


> They won 23 last year..
> 
> If Philly ends up with Durant or Oden, they're in great position for the future.
> 
> I'd only look at one of those selections & Andre Igoudala as the cornerstones of the franchise.
> 
> Korver, Dalembert, Green, Carney...all them should become trade bait...they are absolutely STUCK with webber though unless they buy him out.


They don't have to nesscarily buy him out. His only got two more years on his contract and thats including this year also. He'll be traded next year if not this year, because his going to give some team huge cap relief on his last year of his contract.

No smart owner would buy out a monster contract like his with only a season and a half remaining on the contract..


----------



## The ROY

kulaz3000 said:


> They don't have to nesscarily buy him out. His only got two more years on his contract and thats including this year also. He'll be traded next year if not this year, because his going to give some team huge cap relief on his last year of his contract.
> 
> No smart owner would buy out a monster contract like his with only a season and a half remaining on the contract..


u're right

i thought he had 3-4 years remaining...not two


----------



## The ROY

So Francis it out for 2 weeks, Jefferies is out 4 games and Nate is out 10.

Atleast they got Channing back.

G Marbury
G Crawford
F Balkman
F Frye / Lee
C Curry

I think James & Collins are out atleast 1 game also. Isn't Quentin out with back spasms also?

That pick is starting to look better and better.


----------



## southpark

wow...cant believe they beat the jazz...ridiculous


----------



## LegoHat

Noah had 17 rebounds and 6 blocks this weekend in case anyone missed it.


----------



## The ROY

LegoHat said:


> Noah had 17 rebounds and 6 blocks this weekend in case anyone missed it.


Damn


----------



## LegoHat

Oden with 18 points and 9 rebounds last night. 

Shooting both with his left and his right hand, which is still in a plastic cast. Oden says it feels fine though. 








-


----------



## DaBabyBullz

LegoHat said:


> Oden with 18 points and 9 rebounds last night.
> 
> Shooting both with his left and his right hand, which is still in a plastic cast. Oden says it feels fine though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -


That's pretty impressive, shooting with both hands. Gotta give the big fella credit right there. Now just imagine if he would get coached by Olujuwan in the NBA. If he could pick up those moves, along with his size and ambidexterity, he could be something really special. I know if I was running the Bulls and got lucky enough to draft Oden, as soon as I got his name read off in the draft, I'd be on the phone talking to Hakeem the Dream offering him a job.


----------



## southpark

quick thought on Noah, I think I'd rather pass on him
He seems to have a pretty thin frame so I don't think he could add much more weight than he already carries.
He also has an odd shooting form/no mid range jumper and we don't really need another offensively challenged player.
That said, if I HAD to pick him with Oden,Durant gone I probably would (also Wright but people think he won't come out) but I'm really hoping the pick becomes top 2


----------



## The ROY

southpark said:


> quick thought on Noah, I think I'd rather pass on him
> He seems to have a pretty thin frame so I don't think he could add much more weight than he already carries.
> He also has an odd shooting form/no mid range jumper and we don't really need another offensively challenged player.
> That said, if I HAD to pick him with Oden,Durant gone I probably would (also Wright but people think he won't come out) but I'm really hoping the pick becomes top 2


Noah CAN score, he just happens to be a better defender + everything else (ex. Kirilenko).

I wouldn't take him over Wright, Durant or Oden though.

Brandan Wright is DEFININTELY coming out. He already said he wouldn't of went to college, just like Durant & Thaddeus Young.


----------



## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls!

Horrible thought: what's the liklihood that Oden stays @OSU for another year?? 

Does his family have money, like Noah's tennis playing dad?

Horrible thought, part II: Noah has a game like Tyson's..(I don't follow the college game at all, but if he's tall, skinny jumping bean who can't shoot, has no hands, offensively challenged..)


----------



## yodurk

Bulls_Bulls_Bulls! said:


> Horrible thought: what's the liklihood that Oden stays @OSU for another year??
> 
> Does his family have money, like Noah's tennis playing dad?
> 
> Horrible thought, part II: Noah has a game like Tyson's..(I don't follow the college game at all, but if he's tall, skinny jumping bean who can't shoot, has no hands, offensively challenged..)


I really don't see Oden staying for another year at Ohio State. From what I heard, he comes from a poor upbringing financially, unlike Noah.

Oh, and Knicks update...they just won on the most B.S. play you'll ever see in your life. They ran an out-of-bounds play with 0.1 seconds left & score tied (in overtime AGAIN) and managed to get a tip-in for the win. How that's possibly done, I have no idea.


----------



## rwj333

yodurk said:


> I really don't see Oden staying for another year at Ohio State. From what I heard, he comes from a poor upbringing financially, unlike Noah.
> 
> Oh, and Knicks update...they just won on the most B.S. play you'll ever see in your life. They ran an out-of-bounds play with 0.1 seconds left & score tied (in overtime AGAIN) and managed to get a tip-in for the win. How that's possibly done, I have no idea.


The Bobcats have an indescribably pathetic offense. I was watching the last 3 overtimes... Matt Carroll was their go-to guy, basically. 

In retrospect, the brawl may have been bad news for Bulls fans... Isiah is no longer tempted to play Nate Robinson.


----------



## kukoc4ever

Nice to see Gerald Wallace back for my fantasy team.

Ouch. Another Knicks win. Curry with 29 points and 9 rebounds.


----------



## McBulls

kukoc4ever said:


> Ouch. Another Knicks win. Curry with 29 points and 9 rebounds.


David Lee is the only Knick I wish we had on our team. Rumor was that Paxson wanted him included in the Curry trade but IT refused. Both GMs were right about him, he's a monster.


----------



## The ROY

Bulls_Bulls_Bulls! said:


> Horrible thought: what's the liklihood that Oden stays @OSU for another year??
> 
> Does his family have money, like Noah's tennis playing dad?
> 
> Horrible thought, part II: Noah has a game like Tyson's..(I don't follow the college game at all, but if he's tall, skinny jumping bean who can't shoot, has no hands, offensively challenged..)


nah, your definintely over-exxagerating..

he has GREAT hands, 6"11 and can run fastbreaks...definintely isn't scared offensively...just doesn't have a huge array of moves...


----------



## kukoc4ever

McBulls said:


> David Lee is the only Knick I wish we had on our team. Rumor was that Paxson wanted him included in the Curry trade but IT refused. Both GMs were right about him, he's a monster.


I think Curry and Big Ben would be a nice combo.

Lee semes like a nice player. I'd take Frye as well.


----------



## DaBullz

The knicks are nowhere near as bad as last season.

Right now they _are_ 6 games under .500, but they're also just 1.5 out of first place.

They're playing .500 ball in their last 10 games and they're also about 1/2 way to their win total for all of last season.

And there were some who said the Knicks had imploded because of the fight... Seems to me they're winning in spite of it.

Oddly, with Crawford and Curry starting and getting a LOT of burn. Go figure.


----------



## eymang

Psssh, SMH at the Knicks win last night, screw job for Cha


----------



## Jonathan

DaBullz said:


> They're playing .500 ball in their last 10 games and they're also about 1/2 way to their win total for all of last season.


Those last 10 games on the Knicks schedule look an awful lot like our last 10:

TOR, MEM, WAS, MIL, BOS, ATL, @IND, DEN, UTA, CHA


----------



## darlets

As long as they get us some balls in the lottery.

They have about the 7th worse record in the league thus fair. 

We're going to need some luck to get a top three pick anyway.

What do people think of AL Horford????


----------



## DaBullz

Jonathan said:


> Those last 10 games on the Knicks schedule look an awful lot like our last 10:
> 
> TOR, MEM, WAS, MIL, BOS, ATL, @IND, DEN, UTA, CHA


There's some tough teams in that list. Washington is red hot, and Utah has like the best record in the league (in the West, no less).

Judging by the recent injuries of Paul Pierce, Rashard Lewis, and the suspensions in Denver, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Boston, Seattle, and Denver were coming up in our schedule real soon. That's without really paying attention to or looking at the actual schedule.

We've really been blessed to consistently face teams decimated by injuries (like Indy missing 4 starters/key reserves).


----------



## darlets

DaBullz said:


> We've really been blessed to consistently face teams decimated by injuries (like Indy missing 4 starters/key reserves).


We're up to four teams,
Indy, Sonics, Lakers and Boston.


----------



## ztect

DaBullz said:


> And there were some who said the Knicks had imploded because of the fight... Seems to me they're winning in spite of it.


Knicks are a much better team without Nate Robinson
who over dribbles, and doesn't pass very well

A shorter bench also means there are less opportunities for Isiah to coach, which isn't necessarily a bad thing


----------



## darlets

Horford not hurting his draft stock. 11p/11r against Oden on a bum ankle.


----------



## Machinehead

Bulls_Bulls_Bulls! said:


> Horrible thought: what's the liklihood that Oden stays @OSU for another year??


Its a joke they made him go this year 

Dude's already 30 years old


----------



## Da Grinch

oden in reality looks like a 2 year guy to me .

i never though he was going to go pro with or without the 19 and over rule (which i think is a crock but i wont go into that) i always took him as a guy who wanted to go to college and enjoy the experience with his friends maybe win some titles (which i doubt will happen this year but i think will probably happen next year Fla. has a lil' too much experience as they showed yesterday..

he could literally blow out his knee tommorrow and still be the 1st pick , he doesn't have a worry in the world about being the 1st pick similar to tim duncan its just a matter of when he feels he wants to leave college behind .


----------



## darlets

cause a stir if Oden doesn't come out.

I think he'll come out.


----------



## DengNabbit

egggh


----------



## The ROY

SMH

We have to trade this pick...this team is getting better by the GAME

Face the facts, Tyrus and Ben Wallace were the fortune of the Eddy deal...

Let's make a trade for our PF and try to win a ring, forget these damn kids


----------



## DaBabyBullz

The ROY said:


> SMH
> 
> We have to trade this pick...this team is getting better by the GAME
> 
> Face the facts, Tyrus and Ben Wallace were the fortune of the Eddy deal...
> 
> Let's make a trade for our PF and try to win a ring, forget these damn kids


I don't agree with that at all. Tyrus is our PF of the future, and Noc is pretty damn good too. Trading that won't help us at all in the long run, because a star PF will cost way too much to make it worthwhile. 

Now the NYK pick is looking worse and worse all the time. We had all better become big Toronto Raptors fans now. The division standings prior to tonight's games (where NY and Toronto both won, and NJ lost their 5th in a row). 

Team---------W---L------%----GB
Toronto------13--16--0.448---0.0 
New York-----12--18--0.400---1.5 
Boston-------10--16--0.385---1.5 
New Jersey---11--18--0.379---2.0 
Philadelphia--7--20--.259----5.0

So after tonight, Toronto and NY win, so the top remains the same, and NJ (who I thought would win the division) loses their 5th consecutive game.

WHAT A PATHETIC DIVISION!


----------



## The ROY

DaBabyBullz said:


> I don't agree with that at all. Tyrus is our PF of the future, and Noc is pretty damn good too. Trading that won't help us at all in the long run, because a star PF will cost way too much to make it worthwhile.


Yes, of the future, he is..but we have the chance to get to the finals NOW. The east is WIDE open.

Gotta make a move


----------



## DaBullz

The ROY said:


> Yes, of the future, he is..but we have the chance to get to the finals NOW. The east is WIDE open.
> 
> Gotta make a move


You have a point there.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

The ROY said:


> Yes, of the future, he is..but we have the chance to get to the finals NOW. The east is WIDE open.
> 
> Gotta make a move


We don't have to make any moves, and getting TO the Finals don't mean crap. Keep the pick, develop the young guys and we might have a shot at WINNING the Finals. I really couldn't care less if the East is WIDE open (which I agree it is). The championship isn't winning the ECF, it's winning the NBA FINALS. Trading away good young guys for an over the hill PF (Garnett usually is mentioned...he's not over the hill yet, but close I'm sure) is not in the best interest of the franchise long term. 

That's my opinion. I would rather watch a good team for years, then a great team for a year or 2, and then recede into suck-land again due to giving away the future of the franchise for instant gratification.


----------



## The ROY

DaBabyBullz said:


> We don't have to make any moves, and getting TO the Finals don't mean crap. Keep the pick, develop the young guys and we might have a shot at WINNING the Finals. I really couldn't care less if the East is WIDE open (which I agree it is). The championship isn't winning the ECF, it's winning the NBA FINALS. Trading away good young guys for an over the hill PF (Garnett usually is mentioned...he's not over the hill yet, but close I'm sure) is not in the best interest of the franchise long term.
> 
> That's my opinion. I would rather watch a good team for years, then a great team for a year or 2, and then recede into suck-land again due to giving away the future of the franchise for instant gratification.


You're right, the championship isn't the ECF but we'd have to face San An, Phoenix or Dallas. HOnestly, with KG, i don't really think we can beat any of them in a 7 game series.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

The ROY said:


> You're right, the championship isn't the ECF but we'd have to face San An, Phoenix or Dallas. HOnestly, with KG, i don't really think we can beat any of them in a 7 game series.


OK, so if you agree that we most likely wouldn't beat those top Western Conference teams in the Finals WITH Garnett, why on earth would we trade for him? To me it's all or none. 

You'll notice in my avatar I'm a Steelers' fan. I was born in the midst of their dynasty, so those years don't count, but since I've been watching, I've seen them go to 6 AFC Championship Games, winning 2, and only winning 1 of those SBs. Those seasons all sucked, except last year when we finally won one. The WORST was back in '96 when we lost the SB. It'd be the same thing if the Bulls were able to get to the Eastern Conference Finals and lose, or win that and procede to lose the NBA Finals. Losing in the Finals would have to be the worst possible thing in the NBA...luckily every time a team I've cared about got there they won it lol. If you don't win it all, you're still a loser. 2nd place is the 1st loser as I say lol. 

(Of course, there are years like this year where you miss the playoffs that suck even worse, but I always aim for a championship, as well as sustained competitiveness)


----------



## The ROY

I'm not saying we COULDN'T win it all...I just don't know if I could see that happening THIS year vs those teams....

As far as not wanting to move young picks for older stars...

When is it going to be time to STOP adding all this youth and getting some proven vets to get us to the next level? We have T.T., who should be a friggin' BEAST in a couple years....why not use that pick for something more beneficial NOW? Memphis, Atlanta, Charlotte & Philly have that top 5 LOCKED come draft time, no team is gonna become worse than any of those guys. NY currently has the 9th worst record in b-ball, and getting BETTER, mainly cause of the weakness of the divison.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

The ROY said:


> I'm not saying we COULDN'T win it all...I just don't know if I could see that happening THIS year vs those teams....
> 
> As far as not wanting to move young picks for older stars...
> 
> When is it going to be time to STOP adding all this youth and getting some proven vets to get us to the next level? We have T.T., who should be a friggin' BEAST in a couple years....why not use that pick for something more beneficial NOW? Memphis, Atlanta, Charlotte & Philly have that top 5 LOCKED come draft time, no team is gonna become worse than any of those guys. NY currently has the 9th worst record in b-ball, and getting BETTER, mainly cause of the weakness of the divison.


Well, this is how I see it: First off, we wouldn't be able to get a Gasol or Garnett with JUST the pick. Second, TT is quite possibly going to be traded FOR one of them if the trade was to happen, because he plays the same position and other people would most likely want him. We're not going to trade Ben Gordon or Kirk for a PF, cause that'd be defeating the purpose if we trade our guards to get another forward when we already have 3 good forwards and no other guards. 

Take a step back and LOOK at the ages of our guys. Big Ben isn't something I take into consideration when looking at the team's future. I see Kirk is 25, Lil Ben is 23, Thabo is 22, Tyrus is 20, Luol is 21....that's our core. If you want, throw in Andres who's 27....he's still got a good 5 years left even. So every one of those guys is just hitting, or not even quite in their prime except Nocioni. If we keep them all together and manage to pick up a stud in the draft next year, that would be an elite team for years IMO. NOW, if you go your route, and end up trading 2 of them and the pick, we're left with 3 young guys, and 2 old guys, and NOTHING on the bench in terms of good young quality players. Right now we have 5 young guys, Nocioni who's still young, and Ben Wallace who's old and too small anyway when he doesn't have a 7 footer playing next to him....and 24 year old Duhon and Khryapa (though I don't know if he's worthy of consideration given he never plays). Even Sweets is only 24, and Allen is 28. So the whole team is pretty young with the exception of Big Ben, PJ, and Griffin...and they all suck except Big Ben. 

Even if we don't get one of the elite superstar prospects (Oden, Durant, Noah, Wright) we might still get a quality guy in this draft of Hawes, Hansbrough, Walker, etc. NY doesn't have to be the worst team, they just have to be a lottery team for us to have a shot at the #1 you know. I still think they'll implode and the Nets or Raptors will win the division. It could very well be the top 4 teams out of the Central and the other 2 division winners making the playoffs. Right now the Central has the top 3, and #6 and 7 records in the East.


----------



## The ROY

> DaBabyBullz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, this is how I see it: First off, we wouldn't be able to get a Gasol or Garnett with JUST the pick.
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Second, TT is quite possibly going to be traded FOR one of them if the trade was to happen, because he plays the same position and other people would most likely want him. We're not going to trade Ben Gordon or Kirk for a PF, cause that'd be defeating the purpose if we trade our guards to get another forward when we already have 3 good forwards and no other guards.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Seriously doubt T.T. will be traded, even FOR K.G., O'Neal, Gasol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take a step back and LOOK at the ages of our guys. Big Ben isn't something I take into consideration when looking at the team's future.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> IMO, you don't sign Ben for 60 mill UNLESS you're trying to win NOW, he's the team's present and FUTURE, regardless of his age.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even if we don't get one of the elite superstar prospects (Oden, Durant, Noah, Wright) we might still get a quality guy in this draft of Hawes, Hansbrough, Walker, etc. NY doesn't have to be the worst team, they just have to be a lottery team for us to have a shot at the #1 you know. I still think they'll implode and the Nets or Raptors will win the division. It could very well be the top 4 teams out of the Central and the other 2 division winners making the playoffs. Right now the Central has the top 3, and #6 and 7 records in the East.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

True, their are some very good players in this draft. I'm personally a big fan of Spencer Hawes and he'd definintely be the C of the future for this team. But Hawes, Hansborough (yuck), Thabeet, etc. aren't taking you to the next level NEXT season. Only Oden & Durant look capable of that task so far.

I still don't see NY imploding, they went through their trials early this year and now seem to be all on the same page.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

The ROY said:


> True, their are some very good players in this draft. I'm personally a big fan of Spencer Hawes and he'd definintely be the C of the future for this team. But Hawes, Hansborough (yuck), Thabeet, etc. aren't taking you to the next level NEXT season. Only Oden & Durant look capable of that task so far.
> 
> I still don't see NY imploding, they went through their trials early this year and now seem to be all on the same page.


I would actually be happy if we landed Hawes. I think he has a lot of potential, and he's a more reasonable expectation of what we can get in the draft next year I think. Even if the Knicks still sucked really bad, the best shot we'd have at Oden was 25%. 

As far as who would or would not be traded, what do you think would really happen? I guess Nocioni could go along with the pick, plus more, but if you're selling out for a win now, Nocioni is more valuable to us, and most likely the other team would be rebuilding, making Tyrus more valuable to them. Trading Kirk or Ben greatly reduces your chances to win now, so they should be off limits if trading in a scenario like that for a PF to "win now". 

I see NY imploding when they realize who they are and go back to their old ways, especially once they get their thugs back off of suspension.


----------



## Soulful Sides

DaBabyBullz said:


> I would actually be happy if we landed Hawes. I think he has a lot of potential


I think potential should be erased from the Bulls vocabulary.


----------



## The ROY

DaBabyBullz said:


> I would actually be happy if we landed Hawes. I think he has a lot of potential, and he's a more reasonable expectation of what we can get in the draft next year I think. Even if the Knicks still sucked really bad, the best shot we'd have at Oden was 25%.
> 
> As far as who would or would not be traded, what do you think would really happen? I guess Nocioni could go along with the pick, plus more, but if you're selling out for a win now, Nocioni is more valuable to us, and most likely the other team would be rebuilding, making Tyrus more valuable to them. Trading Kirk or Ben greatly reduces your chances to win now, so they should be off limits if trading in a scenario like that for a PF to "win now".
> 
> I see NY imploding when they realize who they are and go back to their old ways, especially once they get their thugs back off of suspension.


I think Hawes is the best scoring big in all of college b-ball and he hasn't even gotten comfortable yet. I'd definintely draft him if we're in position.

Can't say who would/wouldn't be traded but I know I PERSONALLY wouldn't part with Ben Gordon & Tyrus Thomas. Sometimes I feel as if Luol is untradeable, other times I don't.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

Soulful Sides said:


> I think potential should be erased from the Bulls vocabulary.


Well, there's a difference in being ALL potential, or a guy like Hawes that is already playing good, and has potential on top of it. Besides that, ANY AND EVERY draft pick IS purely potential. If they never got any better than they are on draft day, might as well never draft anyone, cause not many, if any, rookies are going to make a huge impact and be better than vets. Without potential they never will be.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

The ROY said:


> I think Hawes is the best scoring big in all of college b-ball and he hasn't even gotten comfortable yet. I'd definintely draft him if we're in position.
> 
> Can't say who would/wouldn't be traded but I know I PERSONALLY wouldn't part with Ben Gordon & Tyrus Thomas. Sometimes I feel as if Luol is untradeable, other times I don't.


I agree with this post about 100%. Hawes is the scorer, and that's what we need, a post presence that scores, and he's big and athletic. He'd fit what we need great. He might not be the superstar of an Oden or Durant, but I do think he'd complete the team and we could win with him along with our other young guys.

I personally wouldn't trade Ben or Tyrus either. Nor would I trade Kirk and probably not Luol either. I really wouldn't wanna give up Thabo either, because I for one see the Scottie comparisons. That pretty much leaves Nocioni, and that's simply because in a year or 2 I think both Luol and Tyrus are going to be quite a bit better, he's older, with less athleticism and upside. 

I suppose if we could do Noc and the pick for Gasol I'd at least consider that. Not too sure I'd do it for Garnett though because he's older. Ben Wallace might be more effective playing alongside Gasol or Garnett (due to them being legit 7 footers to help compensate for his size).


----------



## Soulful Sides

DaBabyBullz said:


> Well, there's a difference in being ALL potential, or a guy like Hawes that is already playing good, and has potential on top of it.


You are confusing a ceiling for potential.

Tyrus is a ball of sizzling potential. He has little in the way of NBA skills right now, but properly cultivated could be a player. His ultimate future is still murky.

Someone with ceiling comes in ready to play with only the need for refinement...say LeBron in his rookie year.

We need no more potential.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

Soulful Sides said:


> You are confusing a ceiling for potential.
> 
> Tyrus is a ball of sizzling potential. He has little in the way of NBA skills right now, but properly cultivated could be a player. His ultimate future is still murky.
> 
> Someone with ceiling comes in ready to play with only the need for refinement...say LeBron in his rookie year.
> 
> We need no more potential.


Your opinion. To me ceiling and potential are one in the same. I disagree with your take on it, lets leave it at that.


----------



## The ROY

After 12 Games :

Haseem Thabeet 7.2 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 4.2 bpg

Brandan Wright 15.7 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.7 bpg

Kevin Durant 21.6 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 1.9 bpg, 1.7 spg

Greg Oden 14.5 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 3.7 bpg (6 games for him)

Spencer Hawes 16.5 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 2.4 apg, 2.3 bpg

Al Horford 12.8 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 2.1 bpg

Joakim Noah 12.1 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 1.9 bpg, 1.2 spg

If the Oden/Durant sweeptakes ends soon, I'm hoping for Spencer Hawes.


----------



## DengNabbit

prediction: Memphis ends up with better record than NYK at end of the year.

worst record in the NBA now, but plenty of talent.

they hold onto Gasol so they make the franchise attractive to potential owners


----------



## The ROY

We may have to start looking at the top 14 prospects and not just the best 14 big's. Depending on if we make a move involving Tyrus, Deng, the pick etc., ya never really know what we're gonna be in the market to draft. I seriously doubt Haseem Thabeet is coming out this year (he's very VERY raw regardless) & Julian Wright doesn't seem very likely either since his family is already financially stable & he's looking @ education over NBA fame.

Right now, I'd say we can pin only these guys as DEFININTE's for the draft & lotto :

Bill Walker
Joakim Noah
Al Horford
Kevin Durant


----------



## Showtyme

Um.

I don't know if anyone noticed, but the Knicks have the most wins in the Atlantic division and have a very decent shot at making the playoffs, at this rate. They're one game back of two teams that have been playing lackluster basketball, the Nets and the Raptors.

:eek8:


----------



## theanimal23

Showtyme said:


> Um.
> 
> I don't know if anyone noticed, but the Knicks have the most wins in the Atlantic division and have a very decent shot at making the playoffs, at this rate. They're one game back of two teams that have been playing lackluster basketball, the Nets and the Raptors.
> 
> :eek8:



It worries me. I wasn't too optimistic this year, just because. They have won against some decent teams, granted in an unorthodox and undominating fashion, but there are teams this year who will just plain suck. NYK isn't as bad as those teams, Philly, Memphis, etc.

In a month, I'd like to trade the pick and PJ if we can be certain it won't be a lotto pick. I'd love to get Hawes if he had a late lotto pick. Anyone have any highlights of him?


----------



## Babble-On

theanimal23 said:


> They have won against some decent teams, granted in an unorthodox and undominating fashion, but there are teams this year who will just plain suck. NYK isn't as bad as those teams, Philly, Memphis, etc.


Memphis with Gasol will be a better team than the Knicks. Don't forget that they won 49 games last year in the west. I think they can make up those six wins the Knicks have over them.


----------



## theanimal23

Babble-On said:


> Memphis with Gasol will be a better team than the Knicks. Don't forget that they won 49 games last year in the west. I think they can make up those six wins the Knicks have over them.


I think they will too, but I hope they get some momentum soon. 

I wish they had the expiring deals of Rose and Taylor to trade for ZBo, to create some more chaos. Can you imagine him and Curry both trying to coexist in the paint.


----------



## theanimal23

Am I the only one who thinks we should try to move the NYK pick, and possibly unprotected, or top 1 protected? The way the Atlantic is and how the Knicks are playing, I rather take my chances of landing an All-star than the odds of getting Oden/Durant. While I would be sad if the NYK pick ends up being Oden, but if we had Gasol (or similar) player in return by giving up less (b/c the pick is given up unprotected), I would not feel bad.

Something like all expirings, Noce, and NYK?


----------



## The ROY

37pts & 16rebs for Durant vs. Colorado

damn


----------



## LuolDeng

Not sure if this was posted or not but...

Bill Walker may have torn his ACL. http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/6345662


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

The ROY said:


> 37pts & 16rebs for Durant vs. Colorado
> 
> damn


I really hope if we trade the 07 pick, we can top 2 protect it in a trade. It's unlikely we'd get either Oden or Durant with the fact that the Knicks aren't a disaster anymore, but I'd hate to give up the chance.


----------



## Jonathan

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I really hope if we trade the 07 pick, we can top 2 protect it in a trade. It's unlikely we'd get either Oden or Durant with the fact that the Knicks aren't a disaster anymore, but I'd hate to give up the chance.


If we do, it will be along these lines:

If the pick ends up being first or second in the draft, then we keep it and send the other team Tyrus Thomas, instead. (Are you even allowed to do that?)

NOBODY is going to let us protect the pick without getting something if we end up keeping it, and our next year's pick won't be adequate compensation.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

The ROY said:


> We may have to start looking at the top 14 prospects and not just the best 14 big's. Depending on if we make a move involving Tyrus, Deng, the pick etc., ya never really know what we're gonna be in the market to draft. I seriously doubt Haseem Thabeet is coming out this year (he's very VERY raw regardless) & Julian Wright doesn't seem very likely either since his family is already financially stable & he's looking @ education over NBA fame.
> 
> Right now, I'd say we can pin only these guys as DEFININTE's for the draft & lotto :
> 
> Bill Walker
> Joakim Noah
> Al Horford
> Kevin Durant


Actually, Walker might not be...and this was prior to his possible ACL injury. I was just reading in SLAM magazine the other day at the eye-doctor's office that it's possible that the NBA might block his entry into the draft next year because his high school class's graduation date will be next year as well (he graduated early to go to college if you recall). So there is some legal tape to cut there if he's going to be able to enter the draft.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

theanimal23 said:


> I think they will too, but I hope they get some momentum soon.
> 
> I wish they had the expiring deals of Rose and Taylor to trade for ZBo, to create some more chaos. Can you imagine him and Curry both trying to coexist in the paint.


They should complement all other well.

ZBo has re-invented himself as the Chris Webber of his last year or two with the Kings - playing mainly out of the paint and content with the shooting soft face up J's . At least he makes more of them than what Webber did/does. Like CWebb, ZBo is an adept passer ( when he is of a mind to play with his team mates )


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

Saw Roy Hibbert today. Didn't impress at all . Slow . Lumbering . Didn't use his size to crash the offensive glass. Not really an option within the offense 

Disappointing


----------



## The ROY

Kevin Durant with 34 & 13 rebs vs Missouri today


He's ridiculous

anyone know WHY espn doesn't show texas's scoreboard and stats when they play? It's like they don't exist when they play a game.


they don't even have them ranked


----------



## theanimal23

The ROY said:


> Kevin Durant with 34 & 13 rebs vs Missouri today
> 
> 
> He's ridiculous
> 
> anyone know WHY espn doesn't show texas's scoreboard and stats when they play? It's like they don't exist when they play a game.



And does anyone know where I can see any Durant videos online? I have trouble finding any. I read and hear about this kid, but I so want to see how he plays.

Am I the only one here who thinks he might be better than Oden, but Oden is the obvious #1 since he is a Center and they come along once every 10 years. 

I think Oden is NBA ready (according to articles) in terms of D and rebounding, but has to still develop offensive skills. I think the broken hand may be a blessing in disguise if it helps him become ambidextrous. Thats what happened to JO.


----------



## The ROY

theanimal23 said:


> And does anyone know where I can see any Durant videos online? I have trouble finding any. I read and hear about this kid, but I so want to see how he plays.
> 
> Am I the only one here who thinks he might be better than Oden, but Oden is the obvious #1 since he is a Center and they come along once every 10 years.
> 
> I think Oden is NBA ready (according to articles) in terms of D and rebounding, but has to still develop offensive skills. I think the broken hand may be a blessing in disguise if it helps him become ambidextrous. Thats what happened to JO.


Kevin Durant is a MUCH better player than Greg Oden....talent wise, it's not even close


----------



## narek

Pax was scouting Pittsburg's Aaron Gray last night:



> Often it was provided by Gray (18 points, seven rebounds), whose presence drew a bevy of NBA scouts, including Bulls vice president John Paxson


. 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/colleges/206644,CST-SPT-demon11.article


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1

http://www.nba.com/knicks/inthepaint/practice_070111.html

Knicks Improving Amid Unsettled Atlantic Division
by Tom Kertes 


GREENBURGH, NY, January 11, 2007 -- For the first time, Isiah Thomas acknowledged that his team might just be on the verge of some kind of a playoff race. “This is going to be a strange year,” the Knicks coach pondered post-practice at the team’s Madison Square Garden Training Center. “However you thought it was going to look like, chances are in the end that’s not going to be that at all. I think this is still anybody’s ballgame right now.” 
”With injuries and teams not playing well…” Thomas shook his head in frank amazement. “It’s January, and it’s not at all what I thought it was going to be. New Jersey is the perfect example: they’re used to running off ten-twelve wins in a row -- and then the Division is over. But this can be a year where one player moves, or one player comes to a team, and it changes everything.” 

Can Chris Webber, just released by the Philadelphia 76-ers, be that kind of a player? “A guy like that can still be a difference maker,” said Thomas. “Not him individually, but him added to a group of guys that just needs a little bump.” 

Would that mean Thomas has an active interest in acquiring Webber? “It’s my job to be interested, to look and see,” he understated. “He’s out there and…” The Knicks, at any rate, appear to be in Webber’s second tier of his interest at best -- the five-time All-Star power forward has stated that he prefers to go to a primary NBA championship contender at his point in his career. “I would say there are other teams ahead of us. The upper echelon of the league, Detroit, San Antonio, Miami when Shaq comes back, those type of teams,” said Thomas. 

Of course, the mere fact that Thomas would even consider regarding the Knicks as a team that might be in need of just “a little bump” towards the playoffs signifies tons. “Our rebounding effort has been excellent,” acknowledged the coach. “We’ve limited our turnovers, except for last night. And we’ve really found a low post presence that we can play through. The consistent double teaming of (center Eddy) Curry… And when he’s not double-teamed he’s cashing in, he’s moving people off the court, he gets us into the bonus getting to the foul line. Those factors have been the reasons why we are winning basketball games.” 

Thomas is “comfortable and satisfied with the way things are right now” with his improving team, but that doesn’t necessarily mean no lineup or personnel changes, or the promise of an unchanged rotation for that matter, for the rest of the season. “No,” he stated with emphasis. “No. You just try to win each game with the resources that you have.” 

What this all seems to add up to is that while the door remains open for change, Thomas certainly doesn’t want to trade any of his young players. “No,” he stressed. “I would say that is correct. That is VERY accurate, in fact. We won’t be shortsighted and give up tomorrow for today. Our future is very bright and we don’t want to compromise that at all. So we are just doing our job -- and that is all we’re doing.” 

Meanwhile, the matter at hand is the Charlotte Bobcats, a team that has been a scratchy match-up for the Knicks of late -- and a team that beat the championship contending Detroit Pistons on the road last night in spite of a 10-23 record. “(Coach) Bernie (Bickerstaff) does a great job,” said Thomas. “He knows all the tricks and he has his guys playing hard. And they have some talent, too. They can beat just about anybody in the league on a given night. They are very competitive and a team we definitely respect. We don’t take them lightly. I’m sure we’ll have our hands full tomorrow night.”


----------



## The ROY

Zeke has the Knicks 6 wins ahead of where they were last season.

16-21 now, playing the Cats tonight.

IMO, they look like a 35-40 win team.


----------



## SALO

Watching a bit of Spencer Hawes during the Cal-Washington game. Hawes is SLOW! Has a nice touch with his lefty hook shots, but he is not athletic at all. Kaman is quicker than him. I know we've added Tyrus, but we're still unathletic compared to most teams. I would shy away from picking this guy, despite his size.


----------



## such sweet thunder

SALO said:


> Watching a bit of Spencer Hawes during the Cal-Washington game. Hawes is SLOW! Has a nice touch with his lefty hook shots, but he is not athletic at all. Kaman is quicker than him. I know we've added Tyrus, but we're still unathletic compared to most teams. I would shy away from picking this guy, despite his size.


I got the same vibe from Hawes, but you have to remember how inexperienced he is. The games still moving to fast for him, and that is going to make emphasize any lethergy on his part. So I agree with you; but I'm leaving the open the always present chance that I'm dead wrong.


----------



## The ROY

2nd Round Situation (4 Those That Don't Know)

Chicago will be recieving Boston's pick (currently 35th)

Chicago will be recieving Denver's pick (currently 54th)

Portland will be recieving Chicago's pick (currently 51st)


----------



## SALO

The ROY said:


> 2nd Round Situation (4 Those That Don't Know)
> 
> *Chicago will be recieving Boston's pick (currently 35th)*
> 
> Chicago will be recieving Denver's pick (currently 54th)
> 
> Portland will be recieving Chicago's pick (currently 51st)


I'm a bit confused about this pick. I believe we get Boston's OR Golden State's pick, but I'm not sure what the conditions are. 

Either way, we could probably trade both of our 2nd rounders (plus cash) for a pick in the 20's. There's always some cheapskate team willing to dump their pick for cash. Since we're capped out, and might not even use our entire MLE, a pick in the 20's could get us someone decent.


----------



## The ROY

SALO said:


> I'm a bit confused about this pick. I believe we get Boston's OR Golden State's pick, but I'm not sure what the conditions are.
> 
> Either way, we could probably trade both of our 2nd rounders (plus cash) for a pick in the 20's. There's always some cheapskate team willing to dump their pick for cash. Since we're capped out, and might not even use our entire MLE, a pick in the 20's could get us someone decent.


Suns currently have the 23rd pick (from cavs) & the 28th pick.

I'm sure we could pry away one of those since there's no chance in HELL of taking their ATL pick (if they get it).


----------



## theanimal23

Anyone else think the Knicks pick will be a low Lotto pick at best? (EDIT) I gotta think, at this rate, if we can make a deal at the deadline, we are sending the pick away.


----------



## kulaz3000

theanimal23 said:


> Anyone else think the Knicks pick will be a low Lotto pick at worse? I gotta think, at this rate, if we can make a deal at the deadline, we are sending the pick away.


Yeah, it looks like it will be a low lottery pick around the 10 mark. They definitly wont get in the play-offs, unless they get to the .500 mark which i don't see happening. The Nets will win that division(well im hoping), and i also hope Toronto keeps playing well to keep the pressure on the Knicks.


----------



## SALO

Knicks won. Sacramento got absolutely hosed at the end of that game. Kings have the ball with 14 seconds left, on the inbounds play the refs call an offensive foul on Corliss Williamson (illegal screen) under the basket. They show the replay, and Corliss doesn't even touch the guy. His feet were set, he didn't move into the defender, just a horrible call. Especially at a crucial time like that. Kings are then forced to foul and Knicks hit their free throws. Game over. 

Me personally, I think the 10th pick is the perfect place to take that Yi kid from China. He would be a hit in Chicago. With all the attention (and money) he'd bring with him, he could help alleviate some of the dollars lost if we had to pay the LT in the future. He's also an athletic 7-footer, which doesn't hurt.


----------



## theanimal23

SALO said:


> Me personally, I think the 10th pick is the perfect place to take that Yi kid from China. He would be a hit in Chicago. With all the attention (and money) he'd bring with him, he could help alleviate some of the dollars lost if we had to pay the LT in the future. He's also an athletic 7-footer, which doesn't hurt.


I like your suggestion of taking Yi. It depends how many teams will want 7 footers in this draft, and if guys like Thabeet come out. Yi does seem to have a solid offensive game, and I would be happy with our chances of landing him having the 10th pick or better. I am not sure who I like yet outside of the obvious Big 2 in this draft, but I do not like Noah on this team. I would consider Horford if we have around the 10 pick, but he is more a PF than C, and I am hoping that Tyrus develops into that PF. 

From the highlights of Yi on Youtube, he seems to be a guy who would fit well with our offensive scheme, and could potentially provide that offensive firepower if Tyrus does not develop it. 

What other guys should we look at? I can't find highlights of Hawes. Anyone else we should look at? 

Thanks


----------



## The ROY

Yi looks like a more athletic version of Keith Van Horn to me...but @ #10, I'd take him


----------



## The ROY

Yi Jianlian, Aaron Grey, Tiago Splitter, Josh Mcroberts, Darrell Arthur & Tyler Hansborough (assuming they come out) all look to fall within that 8th-14th pick range we may be choosing from.

Noah, Oden, Durant & Wright (assuming they all come out) have that top 5 locked up.


----------



## theanimal23

Brandon Wright: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMB8KvQReUU


----------



## yodurk

Knicks are doing basically the opposite of what we've done.

Bulls have had a large number of blowout victories, and most of our losses have been very close.

Knicks have had a ridiculous number of narrow victories with alot of luck, and alot of their losses have been large.

The one advantage they have is rebounding; I hope the quality opponents they face in the upcoming weeks will realize this and adjust their game plan accordingly. You shut them down on the boards, and you have them beat pretty easily.


----------



## JRose5

Durant's on ESPN2 tonight, #21 Texas vs. #12 OK State.
His last three games:

37 points, 16 boards
34 points, 13 boards
28 points, 13 boards


----------



## rosenthall

JRose5 said:


> Durant's on ESPN2 tonight, #21 Texas vs. #12 OK State.
> His last three games:
> 
> 37 points, 16 boards
> 34 points, 13 boards
> 28 points, 13 boards


Kevin Durant is looking pretty scary these days. At this point, I think it's 50/50 that he goes over Oden right now for #1. He didn't have quite the hype that Oden had, but is there anybody else in college basketball that is consistently showing signs of being a dominant player like he is?


----------



## rosenthall

yodurk said:


> Knicks are doing basically the opposite of what we've done.
> 
> Bulls have had a large number of blowout victories, and most of our losses have been very close.
> 
> Knicks have had a ridiculous number of narrow victories with alot of luck, and alot of their losses have been large.
> 
> The one advantage they have is rebounding; I hope the quality opponents they face in the upcoming weeks will realize this and adjust their game plan accordingly. You shut them down on the boards, and you have them beat pretty easily.


That's a good point, and it's reason for optimism. However, I do get discouraged by the fact that, over the past 20 or so games, they've pretty consistently beaten the bad teams, and pretty consistently played okay/mediocre against the good teams, which leads me to think that their record right now is pretty indicative of how good they actually are.

But hopefully, you're right, and the bottom will fall out here pretty soon.


----------



## McBulls

yodurk said:


> Knicks are doing basically the opposite of what we've done.
> 
> Bulls have had a large number of blowout victories, and most of our losses have been very close.
> 
> Knicks have had a ridiculous number of narrow victories with alot of luck, and alot of their losses have been large.
> 
> The one advantage they have is rebounding; I hope the quality opponents they face in the upcoming weeks will realize this and adjust their game plan accordingly. You shut them down on the boards, and you have them beat pretty easily.


The Knicks traditionally get a lot of love from the refs at home. Much more than the average NBA team. This shows up particularly in close games this year.

Anyway, the good times are coming to an end as of now. From here on out, the Knicks schedule is significantly tougher than it has been in December and early January. Unless their improvement is real, their wins will come few and far between between now and the end of the year. I still think there's a good chance they win fewer than 30 games this year and finish in the bottom 5.


----------



## The ROY

22pts, 19rebs & 4blks for Aaron Gray tonight vs. Haseem Thabeet

kinda like his game


----------



## JRose5

Durant hasn't been as hot tonight, but he did hit a clutch 3 with about 50 seconds left.
This has been a great game as a whole, going to overtime right now after Texas hit a 3 with 10 seconds left to tie it up.


----------



## JRose5

Going to a second overtime, damn this has been a really great game.
Durant up to 28 and 10 after OT1.


----------



## The ROY

37pts and 12rebs for durant


----------



## Da Grinch

SALO said:


> *Knicks won. Sacramento got absolutely hosed at the end of that game. Kings have the ball with 14 seconds left, on the inbounds play the refs call an offensive foul on Corliss Williamson (illegal screen) under the basket. They show the replay, and Corliss doesn't even touch the guy. His feet were set, he didn't move into the defender, just a horrible call. Especially at a crucial time like that. Kings are then forced to foul and Knicks hit their free throws. Game over.*
> 
> Me personally, I think the 10th pick is the perfect place to take that Yi kid from China. He would be a hit in Chicago. With all the attention (and money) he'd bring with him, he could help alleviate some of the dollars lost if we had to pay the LT in the future. He's also an athletic 7-footer, which doesn't hurt.


Corliss was charged with a violation not a foul , you are not allowed to set a screen out of bounds , whether or not he made contact made no difference , you can check game logs to see he was not charged with an offensive foul.

it was a good call.


----------



## The ROY

24pts, 15rebs, 4blks & 3asts for Oden

Who ever lands the 2nd pick should be just as happy as who lands the first pick.


----------



## The ROY

Knicks schedule for January (the rest of it, atleast) :

@ Washington LOSS
New Jersey LOSS
@ Indiana
@ Miami LOSS
Phoenix LOSS
Miami LOSS
@ Milwaukee
L.A. Lakers LOSS
@ Charlotte


----------



## DaBabyBullz

The ROY said:


> 24pts, 15rebs, 4blks & 3asts for Oden
> 
> Who ever lands the 2nd pick should be just as happy as who lands the first pick.


Well, almost anyway. I think I prefer Durant to be honest, but Oden sure would help us a lot more in the post. If Oden goes #1, the team picking at #2 grabs Durant, but was in need of a post player....well, that team that grabbed Durant might've gotten the best player, but might be weak on the post. For example, if we landed the #2 and got Durant instead of Oden. We're pretty set at the F, and weak at the C. So while Durant would add depth and maybe be an upgrade at F, he wouldn't fill our need at C...and he's not a post player at all at this point...he drives into the paint but doesn't post up at all. Not much of a post defender either....he looks like he'd have the ability to be a shot blocker, but he doesn't even attempt it. I couldn't help but think in that Oklahoma State game last night that if he'd tried to block some shots they might've won. He is the anti-Tyrus lol.


----------



## Soulful Sides




----------



## kulaz3000

Soulful Sides said:


>


There meager improve is nothing to write home about. There team is a bunch of misfits and they won't make the play-offs.

Nets beat the Knicks just now in a nail bitter, 100-99.

They are now 17-24.


----------



## yodurk

kulaz3000 said:


> There meager improve is nothing to write home about. There team is a bunch of misfits and they won't make the play-offs.
> 
> Nets beat the Knicks just now in a nail bitter, 100-99.
> 
> They are now 17-24.


What scares me about the Knicks is that they suddenly find themselves in EVERY game. It wasn't like that at all last season. Quentin Richardson has transformed into a guy who just can't miss a 3-pointer, Marbury is playing like it's 1999, Curry is having a career year, David Lee is a flat-out monster, and Crawford hits shots in the clutch (despite not hitting anything for the first 3 quarters). Even more so, they're playing hard for Isiah; that was a concern I had before the season started. 

With that said, I still don't think they're good enough for playoffs. But I do think they'll hit 35 wins or so, about what I predicted when the season started. It's great to see them get beat at the buzzer for once (actually that's twice in a row now ) Cliff Robinson with a tip-in over Eddy Curry.


----------



## kulaz3000

yodurk said:


> What scares me about the Knicks is that they suddenly find themselves in EVERY game. It wasn't like that at all last season. Quentin Richardson has transformed into a guy who just can't miss a 3-pointer, Marbury is playing like it's 1999, Curry is having a career year, David Lee is a flat-out monster, and Crawford hits shots in the clutch (despite not hitting anything for the first 3 quarters). Even more so, they're playing hard for Isiah; that was a concern I had before the season started.
> 
> With that said, I still don't think they're good enough for playoffs. But I do think they'll hit 35 wins or so, about what I predicted when the season started. It's great to see them get beat at the buzzer for once (actually that's twice in a row now ) *Cliff Robinson with a tip-in over Eddy Curry*.


Curry still hasn't learnt to JUMP for a rebound. Curry's improvement has not been much in my point of view. Everyone has overrated his proggression over the years, he should be well beyond what he has achieved this year. He is pretty much producing what he has with us back when we made the playoffs with him. Its just that Isiah is force feeding him the ball and leaving him on the court and allowing him to play through mistakes, so obviously his statistics are going to go up. Where as when he played with us, he was still a great scorer, but a big defensive liabilty and towards the end of the game, we went with the experience of AD and Tysons defensive prowess because we were in the hunt of being in the playoffs. Where as Knicks, are just allowing him make as many mistakes as possible as long as he can stay on the floor. 

I guess my point of view of Knicks record is, they will give us a lottery pick regardless of what happens.

1. They arn't making the play-offs.
2. We will make the play-offs.
3. We'll be able to swap picks.

So with our pick which would be around the 20the pick bracket, to convert it to a pick around the 10th pick in the lottery is a pretty good result. In a very deep draft, we could get very lucky. Plus, with the luck of the bounce, we could go up a very draft positions and get into the top 5 picks also. How many times has the team with the worst record gotten the number one overall pick? There has been plenty of times when the lower ranked draft possibilities have been able to go up in the draft by luck.

If the Knicks win around 30, and we get a pick around the 10th pick, it would have been a very successful trade with the Knicks in my opinion.


----------



## yodurk

kulaz3000 said:


> Curry still hasn't learnt to JUMP for a rebound. Curry's improvement has not been much in my point of view. Everyone has overrated his proggression over the years, he should be well beyond what he has achieved this year. He is pretty much producing what he has with us back when we made the playoffs with him. Its just that Isiah is force feeding him the ball and leaving him on the court and allowing him to play through mistakes, so obviously his statistics are going to go up. Where as when he played with us, he was still a great scorer, but a big defensive liabilty and towards the end of the game, we went with the experience of AD and Tysons defensive prowess because we were in the hunt of being in the playoffs. Where as Knicks, are just allowing him make as many mistakes as possible as long as he can stay on the floor.
> 
> I guess my point of view of Knicks record is, they will give us a lottery pick regardless of what happens.
> 
> 1. They arn't making the play-offs.
> 2. We will make the play-offs.
> 3. We'll be able to swap picks.
> 
> So with our pick which would be around the 20the pick bracket, to convert it to a pick around the 10th pick in the lottery is a pretty good result. In a very deep draft, we could get very lucky. Plus, with the luck of the bounce, we could go up a very draft positions and get into the top 5 picks also. How many times has the team with the worst record gotten the number one overall pick? There has been plenty of times when the lower ranked draft possibilities have been able to go up in the draft by luck.
> 
> If the Knicks win around 30, and we get a pick around the 10th pick, it would have been a very successful trade with the Knicks in my opinion.


You're right, they do stink still and we're still probably gonna get a lotto pick. I am very boggled though, at how teams aren't strategically adjusting to what the Knicks can do. Look at the numbers, and you'll see that they are basically good at 1 thing: rebounding. They control the boards every game and hence are in every game. It would be great if teams would realize this and actually do something about it.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

If what you guys are saying and everyone is playing out of their minds in order to win the games they have won, and they've still lost 60% of their games or more, it's just a matter of time till they come back down to earth and start losing more again. Hopefully we'll get lucky and get their lotto pick, even if it is a later one, and get lucky in the draw like the Spurs did one year (I believe they should've gotten a much lower pick but got the #1 & thus Duncan that year if memory serves). It'd be nice to get lucky, and even if they had the worst record in the league, it'd still take a lot of luck to get the #1...only 25% chance for the worst team to get the #1 as is, 20% for the 2nd worst, etc.


----------



## The ROY

DaBabyBullz said:


> If what you guys are saying and everyone is playing out of their minds in order to win the games they have won, and they've still lost 60% of their games or more, it's just a matter of time till they come back down to earth and start losing more again. Hopefully we'll get lucky and get their lotto pick, even if it is a later one, and get lucky in the draw like the Spurs did one year (I believe they should've gotten a much lower pick but got the #1 & thus Duncan that year if memory serves). It'd be nice to get lucky, and even if they had the worst record in the league, it'd still take a lot of luck to get the #1...only 25% chance for the worst team to get the #1 as is, 20% for the 2nd worst, etc.


We'd love to get the #1 or #2 but if we could land Oden, Noah, Durant or Wright, I'm sure we'd all be happy. Those are the top 4 guys right there.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

The ROY said:


> We'd love to get the #1 or #2 but if we could land Oden, Noah, Durant or Wright, I'm sure we'd all be happy. Those are the top 4 guys right there.


Personally, I'd almost rather have Hawes or another legit C if we didn't get Oden or Durant. We don't really need any more SF/PF. Of course, if one of those other guys is a real stud by then, I wouldn't complain, but we really need a Center. If we keep getting more and more SF/PF, and for that matter even a PG/SG, then we'll be in the same situation as now where we have to make a consolidation trade to get a post presence...I don't wanna do that. I hate the thought of giving up any of our good young players that I like. (I know that Durant isn't a post presence, but he's the best player, so I'm making the exception....if Noah, Wright, etc make that same impression by draft time I suppose I'd include them in the same category as Durant)

Anyone heard anything on Bill Walker lately? Last 2 articles I read on him didn't sound good for his draft next year. The first said that since he graduated from HS early and his HS class will be graduating this year, he wouldn't be eligible for the draft. Then a week or 2 later, I read he might've blown out his knee. Just wondering if you guys had heard anything.


----------



## theanimal23

Sign me up for Hawes or Horford (especially if he is 6'10" now).


----------



## such sweet thunder

Just got to watch Durant for the first time, in what turned out to be his worst game of the season. It really didn't matter. He can play on my team any day of the week. 

He's going to be a legit power forward in the KG Bosh mold, and I wouldn't mind him playing next to Wallace.

If we do trade our pick, it has to be top two protected.


----------



## kulaz3000

Im actually really warming up to Brandan Wright. He has good size, good length, and good decisive moves. I think his game can translate into the nba very easily.. i could most definitly see him in a Bulls jersey.

As for Durant, i don't watch many college ball, but i think if anything he will play his majority of mintues at the small forward position. There is noway he'll survive in the paint, without breaking a limb or two. As for talent... WOW.. he is on another stratosphere. 

Heck, this coming draft could be potentially very VERY deep. I think we could atleast top 5 protect it, because i think there will be alot of first year difference makers in this draft.


----------



## The ROY

such sweet thunder said:


> Just got to watch Durant for the first time, in what turned out to be his worst game of the season. It really didn't matter. He can play on my team any day of the week.
> 
> He's going to be a legit power forward in the KG Bosh mold, and I wouldn't mind him playing next to Wallace.
> 
> If we do trade our pick, it has to be top two protected.


Nah, Durant is a SF all day.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Ugh, a bad day for the pick swap. First New York wins a nailbiter, then this:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2738214



> New Jersey Nets forward Richard Jefferson will undergo arthroscopic surgery on his right ankle Monday.
> 
> The team gave no timetable for his return.


Jersey was playing better, but the Atlantic remains up for grabs.


----------



## theanimal23

I personally think its best to trade the NYK pick ASAP, hopefully for Gasol as we are discussing in the other thread.


----------



## The ROY

Top 10 worst (in order) :

1. Memphis (10-31)
2. Philly (11-29)
3. Boston (12-27)
4. Atlanta (13-25) [I feel for this team if they don't land a top 3 pick)]
5. Charlotte (14-25)
6. Sacramento (15-23)
7. New Orleans (16-23)
8. Seattle (16-25)
9. Portland (16-25)
10. New York (18-24)

Alot of these teams patheticness are atributting to the Knicks position. 

Sacramento was NOT supposed to be this bad. They SUCK. They need to make a move asap.

New Orleans would have a better record had they not caught so many injuries.

Seattle plays for NOTHING, Lewis is out for a couple more weeks. They'll stay bad. They seriously need to start rebuilding. They should start by moving Ray Ray to a contender. Glad we didn't pay Chris Wilcox.

If NY continues to play well, they'll surpass Milwaukee & POSSIBLY Indiana (depending on how that team comes together).


----------



## rosenthall

The ROY said:


> Top 10 worst (in order) :
> 
> 1. Memphis (10-31)
> 2. Philly (11-29)
> 3. Boston (12-27)
> 4. Atlanta (13-25) [I feel for this team if they don't land a top 3 pick)]
> 5. Charlotte (14-25)
> 6. Sacramento (15-23)
> 7. New Orleans (16-23)
> 8. Seattle (16-25)
> 9. Portland (16-25)
> 10. New York (18-24)
> 
> Alot of these teams patheticness are atributting to the Knicks position.
> 
> Sacramento was NOT supposed to be this bad. They SUCK. They need to make a move asap.
> 
> New Orleans would have a better record had they not caught so many injuries.
> 
> Seattle plays for NOTHING, Lewis is out for a couple more weeks. They'll stay bad. They seriously need to start rebuilding. They should start by moving Ray Ray to a contender. Glad we didn't pay Chris Wilcox.
> 
> If NY continues to play well, they'll surpass Milwaukee & POSSIBLY Indiana (depending on how that team comes together).


I think New Orleans is a safe bet to get better once Chris Paul gets back. Perhaps Sacramento, although things are looking pretty bleak for them right now. 

My dark horse out of that bunch to emerge is Charlotte, who looks to be playing better these days, and most of their young guys appear to playing well together.

However, I think we should get used to the fact that the Knicks probably aren't going to tank the season like we all hoped. Eddy Curry's streak of play has gone on long enough that it's more likely to be real than an aberration (at least for this season), and everyone else seems to be playing within a spitting distance of their actual abilities. I'd bet on them making the playoffs before betting on them to be one of the 4 worst teams in the league. (Regardless of how NY is doing, Boston, Memphis, and Philly look to have that pretty locked up).


----------



## rwj333

Gordon might/should be traded for Gasol. Maybe we should start looking at SGs instead? 

Rudy Fernandez is considered the best young player in Europe. 
http://draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=22 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXAucLSrYv8
http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/rudyfernandez.html

Marco Belinelli is supposed to be pretty good, too. 
http://draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=198
http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/marcobelinelli.html

Marcus Williams might come out as well. I'm not sure he can be a first-tier guard, though. 
http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/marcuswilliamsaz.html
http://draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1519

The good news is that all 3 shooting guards should be available around our pick, whereas no good big men will be.


----------



## LuolDeng

Knicks down 40-12 after 1 quarter?


----------



## The ROY

rwj333 said:


> Gordon might/should be traded for Gasol. Maybe we should start looking at SGs instead?
> 
> Rudy Fernandez is considered the best young player in Europe.
> http://draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=22
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXAucLSrYv8
> http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/rudyfernandez.html
> 
> Marco Belinelli is supposed to be pretty good, too.
> http://draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=198
> http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/marcobelinelli.html
> 
> Marcus Williams might come out as well. I'm not sure he can be a first-tier guard, though.
> http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/marcuswilliamsaz.html
> http://draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1519
> 
> The good news is that all 3 shooting guards should be available around our pick, whereas no good big men will be.


hell no...it'll take all of them years to be the type of SG gordon is now....with gasol, u NEED gordon


----------



## The ROY

NY is now 18-26 after a loss tonight.

Looks like they'll get to 30-35 wins easy though.

But now with Toronto & NJ's recent play, I seriously doubt they'll have any chance at winning the atlantic.

I say, if they wind up 10 games under .500 before for the deadline, keep the pick.


----------



## Da Grinch

i wasn't aware the knicks played and lost 2 games in the last 42 hours ROY, that is since you posted correctly that the knicks were 18-24 .

it was a bad loss last night but it still just counts for 1.

they are 18-25 now.


----------



## The ROY

Da Grinch said:


> i wasn't aware the knicks played and lost 2 games in the last 42 hours ROY, that is since you posted correctly that the knicks were 18-24 .
> 
> it was a bad loss last night but it still just counts for 1.
> 
> they are 18-25 now.


Sounds MUCh better, thanks LOL


----------



## step

If we were to trade Deng in a package for Gasol, would we be able to grab an interesting replacement with the pick? We do have Thabo and Tyrus in reserve who can play minutes there, not to mention there are some FA who could potentially fill that role aswell, but I'm still curious to see if it's a viable option?

One name that stands out to me at the moment is Young, he was high up early on but has slipped down to #9 on nbadraft.net, what are people's view on him (haven't seen him play at all). The range seems to be ideal with the pick, do we have a shot at landing someone decent or should the pick go to Memphis?


----------



## The ROY

I don't think Memphis does the deal without the pick..or unless they get two core members..

PERSONALLY? I'd send Hinrich & Deng for Gasol.

Corey Brewer & Julian Wright will be snaggable SF's but TT will be a BEAST at SF with the right training.


----------



## yodurk

Getting off the Gasol topic, I watched some of the Webcast for the Knicks-Suns tonight. Interesting game for the former Bulls.

Eddy Curry scores about 18 points in the first 8-10 minutes of the game, but only finishes with 25 (hmm...have we seen that before?).

Jamal Crawford scores about 7 pts thru the first 3 quarters; then once the Knicks get down by 17 points, he decides to heave up a shot literally every possession down the court. As we've seen before, he got hot in garbage time and put up about 20 points in the 4th. 

These Knicks still worry me though. They're awfully pesky, and they keep the scores close against some really good teams. They're 1 good PG away from being a playoff team, IMO. Hopefully, that doesn't happen this season. And 8 games under .500 is a big hole to dig out of at the 1/2 way point.


----------



## The ROY

24pts, 12rebs, 3blks vs. Ole Miss for Joakim Noah.


----------



## rosenthall

The ROY said:


> Corey Brewer & Julian Wright will be snaggable SF's but TT will be a BEAST at SF with the right training.


I've never understood the 'Tyrus is a SF' argument. What about his game have you ever seen that makes you think he could play the position? (I'm not trying to be snooty, just asking an honest question).

From my eye, he doesn't have one NBA level skill that he could use at SF, and he's not all that close. 

I know this comparison is pretty extreme, but Tyrus was older than Lebron when he came into the league. 

I think he could probably defend SFs if he had to, but that would take away his best defensive talents, which seem to be shotblocking and rebounding. 

Putting him at SF would only make sense if we wanted to turn him into Eric Williams.


----------



## theanimal23

rosenthall said:


> I've never understood the 'Tyrus is a SF' argument. What about his game have you ever seen that makes you think he could play the position? (I'm not trying to be snooty, just asking an honest question).
> 
> From my eye, he doesn't have one NBA level skill that he could use at SF, and he's not all that close.
> 
> I know this comparison is pretty extreme, but Tyrus was older than Lebron when he came into the league.
> 
> I think he could probably defend SFs if he had to, but that would take away his best defensive talents, which seem to be shotblocking and rebounding.
> 
> Putting him at SF would only make sense if we wanted to turn him into Eric Williams.


REPPED.


----------



## rosenthall

yodurk said:


> Getting off the Gasol topic, I watched some of the Webcast for the Knicks-Suns tonight. Interesting game for the former Bulls.
> 
> Eddy Curry scores about 18 points in the first 8-10 minutes of the game, but only finishes with 25 (hmm...have we seen that before?).
> 
> Jamal Crawford scores about 7 pts thru the first 3 quarters; then once the Knicks get down by 17 points, he decides to heave up a shot literally every possession down the court. As we've seen before, he got hot in garbage time and put up about 20 points in the 4th.
> 
> These Knicks still worry me though. They're awfully pesky, and they keep the scores close against some really good teams. They're 1 good PG away from being a playoff team, IMO. Hopefully, that doesn't happen this season. And 8 games under .500 is a big hole to dig out of at the 1/2 way point.


A small part of me agrees with you. Even though they're not there yet, it seems like the conditions are always just right for NY to gain a head of steam and push forward in their division and into the playoffs. The 6 game losing streak that I'm always waiting for never seems to arrive.


----------



## Ron Cey

rosenthall said:


> A small part of me agrees with you. Even though they're not there yet, it seems like the conditions are always just right for NY to gain a head of steam and push forward in their division and into the playoffs. The 6 game losing streak that I'm always waiting for never seems to arrive.


I don't know if you are going to see a 6 game losing streak, but you are going to seem them progressively dip further and further below .500 in the next 6 weeks. Their schedule is toughening up considerably. 

They are currently at the #10 pick. I don't see them getting better than that, and actually expect them to fall a spot or two before the season is over.


----------



## The ROY

If they drop 10 games under .500 before all-star break, I wouldn't even trade the pick.


----------



## step

Have faith in Marbury, he'll lead us to the promise land!


----------



## McBulls

IT will be satisfied if he tops Larry Brown's 23 win season last year. Looks like he's got that in the bag.

I'm a little surprised to see IT still has a job. Maybe Dolan is just saving money in preparation for selling the team.


----------



## Ron Cey

McBulls said:


> I'm a little surprised to see IT still has a job. Maybe Dolan is just saving money in preparation for selling the team.


I'm more than a little surprised. I'm staggered. I think he's done poorly enough that he should never work for an NBA front office again.

What's even more surprising, is that its been reported that Dolan has already decided to extend Zeke.


----------



## DaBullz

Crawford scored 52 points tonight.


----------



## yodurk

DaBullz said:


> Crawford scored 52 points tonight.


When you consider that he had like 22 in the 4th quarter against the Suns, that's 74 points in his last 52 minutes (5 quarters) of playing time. Pretty amazing, but still things we've seen plenty of times from him. He might be the biggest up-and-down scorer in the entire NBA.


----------



## MikeDC

Heh, maybe they'll trade Jamal back here for Brian Cardinal after we trade away Gordon for Gasol :laugh:


----------



## Ron Cey

DaBullz said:


> Crawford scored 52 points tonight.


At one point he made 16 consecutive field goals. That's just plain nasty.


----------



## BG7

The thing with Crawford is, do we get Nocioni if we resign Crawford? Who is more valuable Crawford or Nocioni?


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1

DaBullz said:


> Crawford scored 52 points tonight.


I watched the game. He was just plain unconscious against the Heat.

Kudos to Jamal.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/27/s...em&ex=1170046800&en=a6facb2f27b96f89&ei=5087


When you are as hot, as brilliant and as close to perfect as Jamal Crawford was last night, the record shattering does not end at the final buzzer. An hour after Crawford lit up the Madison Square Garden scoreboard and the Miami Heat, he picked up his cell phone.


Shaquille O’Neal scored 11 points, but played only 14 minutes against the Knicks in his second game after a two-month absence. 
“Twenty-four messages,” Crawford said in disbelief. “Never had that many before. It’s usually six.”

It was the only time all night that Crawford seemed in awe of anything. The dumbfounded expressions mostly belonged to the Heat, and Crawford was the one who put them there.

Delivering the best individual Knick performance in nearly four years, Crawford scored 52 points to lead a 116-96 rout and cause a sudden bottleneck in the wireless voice-mail network.

The scoring total beat Crawford’s career high by 2 points and represented the fifth-highest total in franchise history. It was perfectly timed, as well; the Knicks were missing their leading scorer, Eddy Curry, and were desperate for a victory after a rough week.

“That was heavenly intervention,” said Jerome James, who took Curry’s place in the starting lineup and checked Shaquille O’Neal.

Only four nights earlier, the Heat (19-24) routed the Knicks (19-26) by 18 points in a game that ranked among their worst this season. They had lost five of their past seven games, and another defeat would have dropped them nine games below .500, which would have been a new low. 

Instead, the Garden was filled with roars of delight, chants of Crawford’s name and one very large group hug by the Knicks’ bench. They routed the defending champion Heat for the second time this season — and this time with both Dwyane Wade and O’Neal (albeit briefly) in the lineup.

“I wasn’t even thinking about it being my night. I just wanted to take what was there,” Crawford said.

Crawford made 20 of 30 field goals, went 8 for 10 from 3-point range and converted all four of his free throws. During a 23-minute stretch — from late in the first quarter to late in the third — Crawford hit 16 consecutive shots, including all eight of the 3-pointers, for 42 points.

According to the Elias Sports Bureau, no other player has converted that many in a row in a game in the past 10 years (the only years they could track). O’Neal was the last to hit 16 straight, over two games in February 2006. Crawford fell three shots short of Johnny Newman’s franchise record for consecutive makes over two games in 1988.

The streak ended for Crawford when he missed a 19-footer with 2 minutes 17 seconds left in the third quarter. He struck again, making an 11-footer 21 seconds later.

“I didn’t look at anybody. I just stayed in my own zone,” said Crawford, whose previous high of 50 points came on April 11, 2004, while playing for the Chicago Bulls in a game against Toronto.

Coach Isiah Thomas said he was unaware of Crawford’s career mark, but he happened to leave him in just long enough to beat it. Thomas said he pulled Crawford once Wade (37 points) was on the bench for good. Wade checked out during a timeout with 6:52 left.

The Knicks led by 20 points heading into the fourth quarter. Crawford started the period by making a driving layup that got him to 48. After shooting an air ball from the arc, he struck from 12 feet and got his first standing ovation. He finished the night with a 22-footer with 6:59 left. 

Crawford skipped to the bench during a timeout at 6:52 and was mobbed by Stephon Marbury, Quentin Richardson, David Lee and Nate Robinson. Thomas left him in for one more possession, and had Crawford foul Michael Doleac to stop the game and give the fans a chance for one more standing ovation. He left for good with 6:51 left.

“He did it very classy, because we still had seven minutes to go,” Crawford said of Thomas. “I appreciated that.”

During the third quarter, Thomas gave Crawford his best advice.

“I told him not to get around too many people and just try to stay balanced and stay focused and stay in the quiet, peaceful place that you’re at right now,” Thomas said. 

The last Knick to score 50 points in a game, the retired Allan Houston, watched the show from a courtside seat. “I was fortunate I could be here for that. It was amazing to see,” Houston said.

Crawford was a picture of humility, crediting his teammates for unselfish passes and screens and Thomas for calling great plays. 

The only hint of cockiness came late in the streak, between field goals 15 and 16. With the crowd chanting, “Lets go, Crawford,” he jogged upcourt, glanced at the press table and winked. 

“Unbelievable performance,” said Wade. “I have never seen anything like that before. The guy was hot.”

The Heat had a 41-40 lead in the second quarter when Crawford began his run. He scored the Knicks’ next 10 points. The Knicks finished the half on a 25-8 run, with Crawford providing 17 points and giving them a 65-49 lead at halftime. The Knicks sealed the game with an 11-0 run to open the second half, with Crawford providing 7 of the points.

Crawford missed his first four shots of the game before starting the streak. He started in place of the slumping Jared Jeffries. Thomas said he wanted more offense on the court but would not say whether the move was permanent...


----------



## DaBullz

I''m not going to talk about Crawford, other than to say I think he's going to experience the most wins for his team in a season this year.


----------



## kulaz3000

The Nets beat the Nuggest tonight, i know its not the Knicks but they are in the same conference. Im cheering on Toronto and the Nets other than when they play against us. Aslong as one of them make the play-offs, the Bulls will get a lottery pick whether it be a low pick, it wil be a lottery pick regardless they we can work with.


----------



## Soulful Sides

<i>Entering the game, Crawford had been shooting only 36% at the Garden this season. Taking it all in from his front-row seat, Ewing certainly didn't see it coming.

"What can I say? He was doing his thing," he said. "It's not as if the Heat could take it to him and maybe get physical with him or maybe try to knock him down to get him out of his rhythm, because so many of his shots were three-pointers or from way out. That's one of the greatest displays of three-point shooting I've ever seen. He was on fire."
---
The question is whether Crawford, a 39% shooter overall this season, is able to remember how he was able to knock down 20 of 30 shots.

"The key was his shot selection," said Walt Frazier, who never reached the 50-point plateau during his illustrious career. ("I didn't shoot enough, my thing was passing," Frazier said.)

Frazier was at his usual MSG Network analyst's post Friday and will be in Milwaukee today.

"It will be very interesting to see how Jamal does," he said. "His shot selection (against Miami) was very good. But he also wasn't falling off balance. He wasn't forcing his shots. He was getting them in the flow. He was very patient, coming around curls and squaring up to the hoop. If he can keep doing those things, he can improve his shooting percentage. And when he's having a game like that, it's good that his teammates featured him. They've gotten him the ball and the last two games he's been phenomenal."
</i>

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/story/492650p-414988c.html


----------



## Soulful Sides

>>As for Crawford, you know he is capable of nights like that because when he gets on a roll he’s as lethal as anybody. The problem with Jamal is that when his shot isn’t falling, he’ll keep taking bad shots.

I didn’t have a problem with Crawford staying in the game until he reached 50. I just think that it’s hypocritical of Isiah Thomas to make such a big deal out of what the Denver Nuggets did back in December and yet he doesn’t have a problem with Crawford running up the score against Miami.<<


----------



## yodurk

I monitor the Knicks fairly consistently via Gamecast, and let me just say that despite their record, they hit more buzzer-beating, circus-type shots than any team I've seen in a while. Add another one to the list from today...going into halftime, Nate Robinson hit a 43-foot shot from about half-court. Until the last 30 seconds of this game, it looked like the Bucks were about to break the game wide open.


----------



## Da Grinch

Soulful Sides said:


> >>As for Crawford, you know he is capable of nights like that because when he gets on a roll he’s as lethal as anybody. The problem with Jamal is that when his shot isn’t falling, he’ll keep taking bad shots.
> 
> I didn’t have a problem with Crawford staying in the game until he reached 50. I just think that it’s hypocritical of Isiah Thomas to make such a big deal out of what the Denver Nuggets did back in December and yet he doesn’t have a problem with Crawford running up the score against Miami.<<


Thomas kept crawford in the game until the Heat gave symbolically , which was when they took Wade out , when they did that Thomas called for the knicks to foul intentionally to take crawford out....he already had 50 at that point when wade left the game for good.


----------



## McBulls

Jamal Chuckmaster was a little less dominant today (9-24, 26 points, 4 assists, 4 turnovers).

But David Lee & Balkman are making IT look like a draft master.

NY Knicks lose a close one on the road to Milwalkee 107-105.


----------



## SALO

McBulls said:


> Jamal Chuckmaster was a little less dominant today (9-24, 26 points, 4 assists, 4 turnovers).
> 
> But David Lee & Balkman are making IT look like a draft master.
> 
> NY Knicks lose a close one on the road to Milwalkee 107-105.


Based on their play this season, do you still feel like New York would be a better team if they kept Mo Taylor/Jalen Rose and played those two guys ahead of Lee/Balkman in the rotation? You were in the minority in that assumption earlier in the season, and I'd just like to know if you've finally come to your senses.


----------



## rosenthall

Ron Cey said:


> I don't know if you are going to see a 6 game losing streak, but you are going to seem them progressively dip further and further below .500 in the next 6 weeks. Their schedule is toughening up considerably.
> 
> They are currently at the #10 pick. I don't see them getting better than that, and actually expect them to fall a spot or two before the season is over.


Well, they've beaten pretty decent teams semi-consistently for a while now (albeit in very unimpressive fashion), and have been at about .500 for some time as well. I just don't see the letdown coming this season. (Although, I hope that I am wrong).

Although, on a positive note, I just checked, and saw that the Knicks, Sonics, Kings, Trail Blazers, Bucks, Heat, and Hornets are all within about 1 game of each other. Which means that the difference between the 6-11 spot in the lottery is almost separated by random chance, so I suppose it would only take a small decrease in level of play to put the Knicks right 'back in the thick of things.'


----------



## McBulls

SALO said:


> Based on their play this season, do you still feel like New York would be a better team if they kept Mo Taylor/Jalen Rose and played those two guys ahead of Lee/Balkman in the rotation? You were in the minority in that assumption earlier in the season, and I'd just like to know if you've finally come to your senses.


I've always liked David Lee, although he is playing even better than I expected. Balkman is truely a surprise.

I remain surprised that the Knicks did not keep the expiring contracts of Taylor and Rose. If they had, they would certainly be one of the most logical destinations for Gasol or Garnett. Now trading for either player is a much more difficult proposition. Their absense is stark evidence that Dolan does not trust IT to be fiscally responsible in trades, and wants to reduce the team salary. 

The actual playing contributions of the two players was somewhat secondary, although presumably Tayor could have helped at least as much as Cato, and Rose could still be depended on as a scoring sf off the bench, which is something the Knicks have in short supply.


----------



## The ROY

I can honestly see the Knicks breaking out in the 2nd half of the season. Crawford's becoming their true 2nd scoring option, Curry's good for 20+ per game now, David Lee is looking to win an AWARD & Renaldo Balkman is doing all the little things. Yeah, they're young but they're gonna surprise some teams in the next half of the season that think they'll sleepwalk thru the Knicks.

I see 35-40 wins for them.


----------



## SALO

The ROY said:


> I can honestly see the Knicks breaking out in the 2nd half of the season. Crawford's becoming their true 2nd scoring option, Curry's good for 20+ per game now, David Lee is looking to win an AWARD & Renaldo Balkman is doing all the little things. Yeah, they're young but they're gonna surprise some teams in the next half of the season that think they'll sleepwalk thru the Knicks.
> 
> I see 35-40 wins for them.


But they were so playing so _HARD_ earlier in the season. Surely they won't be able to keep doing that much longer. :sarcasm:


----------



## The ROY

We currently have the 9th or 10th pick in the draft. Now say that's where we land. My idea would be to use Nocioni to move up and snag a scoring big like say, Spencer Hawes, the best scoring big in the draft. If team's don't go for it, make a move for one of Phoenix's LATE 1st round picks (using Sweetney or Khyrapa).


----------



## The ROY

As of today, we're getting the 44th pick from the Warrior's (don't remember dealing with them, but whatever) & the 50th pick from Denver.


----------



## Ron Cey

The Knicks are 3-6 in their last 9 games and their schedule is going to be tough for the next 4 weeks. 

By the end of February, their season will be officially over. It will just be a question of whether they yield the 5th pick, the 10th pick, or something in between. 

They aren't quite as good as their record, and their record ain't even very good.


----------



## The ROY

Next 7 before the break :

Lakers LOSS
Bobcats
Orlando 
Clippers LOSS
Jazz LOSS
Lakers LOSS
Warriors LOSS

They could go either way, with a winning or losing record.

The Last two months of their schedule isn't hard at all though IMO.


----------



## fl_flash

The Knicks are percentage points ahead of Milwaukee in the standings. The Bucks have had the fewest home games of any eastern conference team to date: 18 of their 44 games have been home games. They've been bitten big-time by the injury bug. I've got to think that having a home-heavy schedue coupled with getting Charlie V and Redd back will help them - possibly to the playoffs. I'm fairly confident the Bucks will finish better than the Knicks.

The Knicks are also closer to being 13th in the east than they are the playoffs. Currently, they're 2.5 games ahead of Charlotte and 3.0 games behing the Nets for the 8th seed. Now, whether Charlotte and Atlanta have enough to pass the Knicks is anybodies guess. Stick a fork in the Sixers. I think it's a safe assumption that they'll be one of the worst teams this season and, unfortunately, they won't be passing the Knicks in the standings. Boston? Who knows. Seems like they're in no rush to get Pierce back and certainly look to be tanking. They get Pierce back and play with some purpose, they're a good team. Good enough to pass the Knicks? Probably not. Too much of a hole to dig out of.

Out west, there's the Hornets who should play better once Paul and West are back and playing. Portland is on level with the Knicks and who can tell what Sacramento is doing. Seattle? They look good on paper but just aren't getting it done. The Grizz are like the sixers - they're done.

I still contend that we'll get no worse than the 10th pick and it's still possible for a top-5 pick (although unlikely). I just don't see the knicks going on a big run, but I also don't see them totally imploding either. The pick ought to be in the 6-10 range. I expect the bucks and Hornets to pass them for sure. Possibly the Bobcats and Blazers. Outside shot at the Hawks, Celtics and Sonics passing them and no way the Sixers and Grizzlies catching them.

It'd be nice to get a top-4 or 5 pick, but there should be some intriguing players in that 6-10 range...


----------



## Ron Cey

The ROY said:


> Next 7 before the break :
> 
> Lakers LOSS
> Bobcats
> Orlando
> Clippers LOSS
> Jazz LOSS
> Lakers LOSS
> Warriors LOSS
> 
> They could go either way, with a winning or losing record.
> 
> The Last two months of their schedule isn't hard at all though IMO.


Their next six games following those you listed are probably just as tough over all. 

Then there is this tough 10 game stretch in March:

at Washington 
at Toronto 
NO/Oklahoma City 
Toronto 
Dallas 
Portland 
Cleveland 
Orlando 
Cleveland 
at Dallas 

If the Hornets are healthy, then 9 of those 10 teams aren't just better than the Knicks, they are a lot better. And the 10th team, Portland, has basically the same record as the Knicks.

Other than that, their schedule is pretty easy the rest of the way in. 

Like I said, they are going to keep slowly dipping lower and lower below .500 as the season progresses. I don't expect a meltdown. But I do expect a slow fall. 

Its going to yield a top 10 pick, and maybe closer to #6.


----------



## The ROY

fl_flash said:


> The Knicks are percentage points ahead of Milwaukee in the standings. The Bucks have had the fewest home games of any eastern conference team to date: 18 of their 44 games have been home games. They've been bitten big-time by the injury bug. I've got to think that having a home-heavy schedue coupled with getting Charlie V and Redd back will help them - possibly to the playoffs. I'm fairly confident the Bucks will finish better than the Knicks.
> 
> The Knicks are also closer to being 13th in the east than they are the playoffs. Currently, they're 2.5 games ahead of Charlotte and 3.0 games behing the Nets for the 8th seed. Now, whether Charlotte and Atlanta have enough to pass the Knicks is anybodies guess. Stick a fork in the Sixers. I think it's a safe assumption that they'll be one of the worst teams this season and, unfortunately, they won't be passing the Knicks in the standings. Boston? Who knows. Seems like they're in no rush to get Pierce back and certainly look to be tanking. They get Pierce back and play with some purpose, they're a good team. Good enough to pass the Knicks? Probably not. Too much of a hole to dig out of.
> 
> Out west, there's the Hornets who should play better once Paul and West are back and playing. Portland is on level with the Knicks and who can tell what Sacramento is doing. Seattle? They look good on paper but just aren't getting it done. The Grizz are like the sixers - they're done.
> 
> I still contend that we'll get no worse than the 10th pick and it's still possible for a top-5 pick (although unlikely). I just don't see the knicks going on a big run, but I also don't see them totally imploding either. The pick ought to be in the 6-10 range. I expect the bucks and Hornets to pass them for sure. Possibly the Bobcats and Blazers. Outside shot at the Hawks, Celtics and Sonics passing them and no way the Sixers and Grizzlies catching them.
> 
> It'd be nice to get a top-4 or 5 pick, but there should be some intriguing players in that 6-10 range...



I'm thinking anywhere between 5-12 depending on how the balls roll and what teams get hot towards the end of the season. We ALL know bad teams always go on winning streaks towards the end of the season.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1

The ROY said:


> I'm thinking anywhere between 5-12 depending on how the balls roll and what teams get hot towards the end of the season. We ALL know bad teams always go on winning streaks towards the end of the season.


The Knicks have no motivation to NOT go on a win streak if the opportunity knocks, since they don't have the ping pong balls to root for.

They may take pride in acting spoiler to some number of teams.


----------



## The ROY

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> The Knicks have no motivation to NOT go on a win streak if the opportunity knocks, since they don't have the ping pong balls to root for.
> 
> They may take pride in acting spoiler to some number of teams.


indeed they should

they'll be the only team playing for SOMETHING when the last game of the season hits...either to have a better record or to spoil it for someone else


----------



## yodurk

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...g=ap-lakers-bryantsuspended&prov=ap&type=lgns

Lucky Knicks get a free pass against the Kobe-less Lakers tonight. They also had the opportunity to play a struggling Heat team without D-Wade. And the Bucks without Redd. These guys seem to be getting some big breaks lately, IMO.


----------



## narek

yodurk said:


> http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...g=ap-lakers-bryantsuspended&prov=ap&type=lgns
> 
> Lucky Knicks get a free pass against the Kobe-less Lakers tonight. They also had the opportunity to play a struggling Heat team without D-Wade. And the Bucks without Redd. These guys seem to be getting some big breaks lately, IMO.


They lost to the Bucks without Redd - at least the last game.


----------



## Ron Cey

yodurk said:


> http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...g=ap-lakers-bryantsuspended&prov=ap&type=lgns
> 
> Lucky Knicks get a free pass against the Kobe-less Lakers tonight. They also had the opportunity to play a struggling Heat team without D-Wade. And the Bucks without Redd. These guys seem to be getting some big breaks lately, IMO.


They lost to the Bucks and got slaughtered a week or two ago by a Shaqless and Wadeless Heat. 

I don't think Kobe's absence, especially with Odom back, necessarily means victory for the Knickerbockers.


----------



## The ROY

I PERSONALLY cannot WAIT until this season is over so we no longer have to follow the Knicks. Right now, NY is sitting 9th, draftexpress.com has us taking Tiago Splitter. Honestly, I wouldn't take him that early. I do think we should keep the pick though. Chances @ Oden or Durant are SLIM but say, Curry goes down for an extended time, our chances raise significantly. If we came out of this draft with Hawes/Noah/Durant/Oden, we'd have some serious options come next season.

4 years from now :

C Hawes
F Thomas
F Deng
G Gordon
G Hinrich

= DYNASTY


----------



## BULLHITTER

i have every confidence that while the knicks will undoubtedly have a better record than last year, they'll offer a very satisfactory pick, one likely to be at least in the running for the #1. i forget how it goes, but doesn't the worst 5-6 have requisite number of balls/cards in the hopper? well, i expect the knick to finish with one of the worst 5-6 records when its all said and done.

reason: there's no one on the roster who'll hang his hat on defense; there's no CONSISTENT scorer every night. some may want to tout curry, but i contend curry's scoring is up because of TOUCHES. most any nba player worth his salt could put up numbers with the appropriate amount of touches; curry's getting plenty. HOWEVER, even with the obvious high % philosophy of going to eddy early and often, jamal got up 30 shots last week to score 52.

ah, jamal, the poster boy for and1 ballers everywhere. actually, i like jamal but his game never has, and i doubt ever will (6yrs in the league) into wins. he was 9 for 24 the night after in a loss to the redd-less buck. so i'm not real worried about the resuscitation of the knick. marbury's hurt, and will be likely the rest of the season, nate's too hyper, frye's too soft and lee?.....well, he's probably the keeper in the whole bunch.

this is a mentally fragile bunch, 3-4 guys in particular are really obvious to me. i can't see them really weathering adversity, or a pressure packed playoff run. isaiah is the coolest head of the bunch; unfortunately, he's too old to put on sneakers.

i wouldn't put any stock in the knicks; they'll be up and down all year, and heaven forbid a front line guy (read: curry) go down for 10 games, it's all over and in the bag for the oden sweepstakes. 

could you imagine if west had two chances for the number one pick by giving up gasol?


----------



## JeremyB0001

BULLHITTER said:


> i have every confidence that while the knicks will undoubtedly have a better record than last year, they'll offer a very satisfactory pick, one likely to be at least in the running for the #1. i forget how it goes, but doesn't the worst 5-6 have requisite number of balls/cards in the hopper? well, i expect the knick to finish with one of the worst 5-6 records when its all said and done.


I just started a thread about our odds of landing a top two pick - it probably should have just been a post in this thread - and yeah if the Knicks have the 6th worst record it's roughly a 13% shot at number one or two.


----------



## yodurk

The ROY said:


> I PERSONALLY cannot WAIT until this season is over so we no longer have to follow the Knicks. Right now, NY is sitting 9th, draftexpress.com has us taking Tiago Splitter. Honestly, I wouldn't take him that early. I do think we should keep the pick though. Chances @ Oden or Durant are SLIM but say, Curry goes down for an extended time, our chances raise significantly. If we came out of this draft with Hawes/Noah/Durant/Oden, we'd have some serious options come next season.
> 
> 4 years from now :
> 
> C Hawes
> F Thomas
> F Deng
> G Gordon
> G Hinrich
> 
> = DYNASTY


Yeah, it was fun following the Knicks last year when they were a complete and utter joke. This year, they at least have a chance to win every night. I'm honestly just hoping for a top 10 pick in the draft, at this point.

And if someone from the Knicks has to go down, I'd actually choose David Lee more than Curry. I personally think that Lee has been their MVP this year. What a steal he turned out to be as a very late first-rounder. Too bad Pax couldn't quite nab him in the Curry deal.


----------



## Ron Cey

yodurk said:


> And if someone from the Knicks has to go down, I'd actually choose David Lee more than Curry.


The game Curry missed recently due to a calf injury is the one in which New York clicked on all cylanders and blew out Miami. It didn't surprise me. Never in Curry's career has a team he played on been on the plus side of the +/- when he's in the game. I'm not a big believer in +/- as it is hugely flawed. But when we are 5 years in and its always a minus, the trend starts to stand out. 

Of course, Crawford scored 52 points that night, which may have had something to do with the outcome as well. :biggrin:


----------



## yodurk

Ron Cey said:


> The game Curry missed recently due to a calf injury is the one in which New York clicked on all cylanders and blew out Miami. It didn't surprise me. Never in Curry's career has a team he played on been on the plus side of the +/- when he's in the game. I'm not a big believer in +/- as it is hugely flawed. But when we are 5 years in and its always a minus, the trend starts to stand out.
> 
> Of course, Crawford scored 52 points that night, which may have had something to do with the outcome as well. :biggrin:


Interesting...I wasn't aware of that regarding Curry's +/-. I'm honestly not surprised though. Big reason I was never a huge Curry fan was that he needs to get spoon fed his points. The Shaqs and Duncans manufacture their own points by capitalizing on both easy putbacks (which Curry has never done) and touches in the post. Curry would easily increase his scoring by 6-8 ppg if he were capable of manning the offensive boards and going back up strong for dunks/layups.


----------



## RSP83

What do we do if we end up with Durant?

Do we trade Deng, resign Nocioni? or we let Nocioni go, and stick with Deng and Durant? And Durant can play some SG too, he has unbelievable guard skills. Or we just keep them all?

what I'm worried about drafting Durant is he's no doubt has superstar talent and IMO at worst he's as good as Paul Pierce; but, do you think our collective style of play means Durant won't ever reach his full potential?

I mean when I see Durant, I see a player capable of putting up 25-28 ppg. A franchise player that teams will revolve around. Now our team is built differently, I can't see any player that will get touches like the Gilbert Arenas of the league in our team. Not even Kobe. Because based on what we've seen since Pax take over, this team never allows a player to dominate the ball. Now most franchise player needs the ball on their hands and they'll drive the team. Durant is this type of player IMO, how is he going to fit in our system? All these time some of us have been screaming Paul Pierce name to be brought here. But seriously, how is he going to fit in our system? Paul Pierce in our system won't be playing the type of game he played in Boston. OR... this collective style of play that we've been displaying all these time is just a result our lack of superstar player? which means once we have a superstar level talent we're going to see some changes in our system?

I'm just really curious about how is Skiles going to utilize superstar on his team. Especially when we already have reliable pieces on this team like Gordon, Deng, Hinrich, Nocioni. Will he mess up his pattern for Durant? We know Skiles is a stubborn guy. Let alone Durant, I think he'll make Paul Pierce a role player equal to Gordon and Deng.

that's why I prefer Oden/Hawes over Durant. Cuz I just hate to see Durant under utilized. I'm a Bulls fan and would love to have a guy as talented as Durant to play for the Bulls. But, I'm an even greater NBA fan, I like to see a player play the best of his ability. Hawes and Oden have great potential too, but their game doesn't require the ball on their hands too often which is a better fit for this team.


----------



## DaBullz

Tuned into the Knicks/Lakers game late. Knicks were up 10. Lakers closed to within 2 or so, then Crawford took over and hit 3 straight buckets, Knick back up by 8. 2:39 left.


----------



## DaBullz

Radman raining 3's, Lakers back to within 2.

And David Lee just walked off the court in pain, bent over, holding his back.


----------



## yodurk

Yep, Knicks definitely got a freebee with the Kobe suspension. No doubt in my mind he would've made the difference in this game. 

I actually saw the replay on the play (him elbowing Ginobili) and it totally looked incidental. Congrats Knicks, Stu Jackson just handed you an easy one.


----------



## kukoc4ever

Curry smashes the Lakers with 27 and 9.

Paxson gets ready to gut the team for big man scoring.

Nice.


----------



## McBulls

kukoc4ever said:


> Curry smashes the Lakers with 27 and 9.
> 
> Paxson gets ready to gut the team for big man scoring.
> 
> Nice.


7 turnovers for the big man. What a force in the middle.

I'm just dripping with envy for the unstoppable Knicks who just barely managed to beat a Kobeless LA team at home with the usual help from their friends in striped shirts.


----------



## kukoc4ever

McBulls said:


> I'm just dripping with envy


Enjoy watching Malik and PJ this evening.




> for the unstoppable Knicks


They are an OK (on pace for 35 wins) team. Much better record wise than Gasol’s Grizzlies.

Let's hope Curry slows down so the Bulls will get a better pick. Or, I guess we're hoping he had more games like last night, since it was a lousy outing for Curry?




> the usual help from their friends in striped shirts.


Do you really think that the officials favor the Knicks for some reason?



----------------


Its just sad how thin the Bulls are at the 4 and the 5 if the past his prime Wallace goes down.

And Paxson started off with two guys who are now the #2 scoring center in the NBA and a top 10 in the NBA rebounder... both young and 7 feet tall. Yeeesh.


----------



## Soulful Sides

kukoc4ever said:


> Curry smashes the Lakers with 27 and 9.
> 
> Paxson gets ready to gut the team for big man scoring.
> 
> Nice.


Curry wouldn't have done that here. He needed the fresh start.

Why do you regurgitate all these old topics?


----------



## Pain5155

wats the point of this thread, the bulls arent gonna win the lottery.


----------



## The ROY

Pain5155 said:


> wats the point of this thread, the bulls arent gonna win the lottery.


The point of this thread is to TRACK the pick.

Thank you, come again


----------



## Pain5155

well it pretty much a given that the bulls wont get it. Knicks are playing solid basketball.


----------



## The ROY

Pain5155 said:


> well it pretty much a given that the bulls wont get it. Knicks are playing solid basketball.


Hmm, there's 47 games left in the season, and they're 9th.

How exactly is it a 'given', explain that one to me?

We're not over here PRAYING for the 1st or 2nd pick in the draft, we're TRACKING the NY pick in GENERAL.


----------



## McBulls

kukoc4ever said:


> Enjoy watching Malik and PJ this evening.


Looking forward to it. Bet neither of them come close to 7 turnovers. They, and the rest of the Bulls, just might surprise you.



> They are an OK (on pace for 35 wins) team. Much better record wise than Gasol’s Grizzlies.


Gasol hasn't been playing for Memphis much this year.



> Do you really think that the officials favor the Knicks for some reason?


Yes, and if you can't figure out why that might be, I won't try to explain. (Hint: Supermarkets & superstars need nurturing) Some of us have a hard time forgetting or explaining the egregious playoff series-winning foul against Pippen (as well as various other outrages before and since).


----------



## DaBabyBullz

Pain5155 said:


> well it pretty much a given that the bulls wont get it. Knicks are playing solid basketball.


The Magic won the lottery in '93 even though they were .500. Last time I checked, the Knicks were only 2 games ahead of the 4th worst team in the NBA, and even at that, they're still in the top ten at #9. It wouldn't take much for them to get into the top 5, and then you have a pretty good shot at getting the #1 through the lottery. For example, Toronto last year should've been drafting at #5, with about an 8.8% chance at the #1, but got the #1 and Bargnani out of the deal.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

McBulls said:


> Gasol hasn't been playing for Memphis much this year.


One thing you should not here: The Grizz were 5-17 without Gasol, they're now 12-34, or 6-17 since he came back. Not much of an improvement. Actually, almost no improvement....they did just as well without him.


----------



## kukoc4ever

McBulls said:


> (Hint: Supermarkets & superstars need nurturing)


I don't think the league is all that crooked.

There is a star system, but I don't feel the officials favor the Knicks over other teams.


----------



## kulaz3000

The Knicks are offically 20-28 after tonights lose against the Bobcats. Also the Hawks are playing better recently, as they just throttled the Warriors(huge dissapointment concerning the warriors season)... i guess im rooting for all the teams that are with worse records than the Knicks to pick it up in the next 40 or so games.


----------



## TripleDouble

kukoc4ever said:


> Curry smashes the Lakers with 27 and 9.
> 
> Paxson gets ready to gut the team for big man scoring.
> 
> Nice.


Does harping on the past never get old?


----------



## DaBabyBullz

kulaz3000 said:


> The Knicks are offically 20-28 after tonights lose against the Bobcats. Also the Hawks are playing better recently, as they just throttled the Warriors(huge dissapointment concerning the warriors season)... i guess im rooting for all the teams that are with worse records than the Knicks to pick it up in the next 40 or so games.


Me too, have been all season. Cheer against the Knicks, FOR any team with a worse record than the Knicks (unless they're playing the Knicks or Lakers) and for the Nets and Raptors.


----------



## step

> The Knicks are offically 20-28 after tonights lose against the Bobcats.


That is one game I might download, just to see how Gerald Wallace managed to score 42 points.


----------



## yodurk

kukoc4ever said:


> Curry smashes the Lakers with 27 and 9.
> 
> Paxson gets ready to gut the team for big man scoring.
> 
> Nice.


Curry again reminding us why we traded him.

6-15 shooting...15 pts, 4 rebounds, 4 turnovers, in 40 minutes.

Wow, 1 rebound per 10 minutes of playing time. Makes me happy to have Big Ben.


----------



## theanimal23

Durant Tonight vs Texas Tech: 37 points, *23 rebounds*


----------



## DaBabyBullz

theanimal23 said:


> Durant Tonight vs Texas Tech: 37 points, *23 rebounds*


Damn, I almost watched that game, instead watched the Spurs/Jazz.


----------



## Cyanobacteria

theanimal23 said:


> Durant Tonight vs Texas Tech: 37 points, *23 rebounds*


Saw a graphic during the game that Durant is averaging something like 33 and 13 in conference play. Previous record for Big 12 scoring average? Our own Marcus Fizer at something like 24.5. Numbers might be a bit off because I saw them from across the room at TGIFriday's (shout out to Jack Daniel's menu), but still... wow.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

Cyanobacteria said:


> Saw a graphic during the game that Durant is averaging something like 33 and 13 in conference play. Previous record for Big 12 scoring average? Our own Marcus Fizer at something like 24.5. Numbers might be a bit off because I saw them from across the room at TGIFriday's (shout out to Jack Daniel's menu), but still... wow.


You're right, I think it was 32.7 and 13 in conference play. Might be 33 even now after the game..he went for 35...don't know how much that'd bump up the average.


----------



## cpawfan

In the Draft Forum, we are having a voting mock draft where each pick will be selected by bbb.net posters.

The vote for #1 http://www.basketballforum.com/showthread.php?t=337215


----------



## SALO

In his latest Q&A, Sam Smith claims we own Boston's 2nd round pick this year (from the J.R. Smith trade). 

However, I've read elsewhere that we own Golden State's pick, not Boston's. Can someone clarify?


----------



## Ron Mexico

Eddy Curry dominated Dwight Howard tonight..


----------



## giusd

Eddy Curry doesnt have a heart problem the problem with Curry is he plays with no heart. Word.

david


----------



## Da Grinch

giusd said:


> Eddy Curry doesnt have a heart problem the problem with Curry is he plays with no heart. Word.
> 
> david


you need to catch more knick games and you'd see how wrong you are.


----------



## Soulful Sides

> Players who clearly could be superstars if they develop the right way, and/or are in the right circumstance: Shaun Livingston, Jamal Crawford, Eddy Curry. Player who could have been a superstar but never will be: Tim Thomas.


http://www.truehoop.com/los-angeles-clippers-71054-knicksclippers-with-david-thorpe.html


----------



## SALO

> *West, Chandler dominate interior as Hornets outlast Bucks*
> 
> OKLAHOMA CITY (Ticker) -- David West and Tyson Chandler made
> sure the New Orleans Hornets had plenty of chances to beat the
> undermanned Milwaukee Bucks.
> 
> West scored 21 points and grabbed a career-high 19 rebounds and
> Chandler added 11 points and tied a career best with 22 boards
> as the Hornets dominated the glass en route to a 109-101
> double-overtime victory over the Bucks.
> 
> West and Chandler crashed the boards all night for the Hornets,
> who could not find the range from the field but held a
> remarkable 71-49 advantage on the glass. Corralling 18
> offensive rebounds, the duo kept New Orleans in the game with
> relentless energy.


It's depressing looking at Chandler's box scores each game. Then I watch PJ and get more depressed. Praying for Gasol to help salvage that horrible trade by Pax. :gopray: 

The good news is with David West & Chris Paul back healthy it looks like New Orleans will end up with a better record than NY. 

It sucks losing to the Kings tonight but at least that's another team that could realistically surpass the Knicks in the lotto standings.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Yikes, we really need the Jazz to knock off the Knicks today in Utah, but right now the Knicks are leading by 10 at the end of 3. Curry and Crawford are playing very well.


----------



## ScottMay

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Yikes, we really need the Jazz to knock off the Knicks today in Utah, but right now the Knicks are leading by 10 at the end of 3. Curry and Crawford are playing very well.


Here's my "are you freaking serious?" stat of the day. The Knicks are 18-0 when they enter the fourth quarter with a lead.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Utah just made up a 10 point fourth quarter deficit. They're up 1 with less than three minutes left. Stay tuned.


----------



## kukoc4ever

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Utah just made up a 10 point fourth quarter deficit. They're up 1 with less than three minutes left. Stay tuned.


Okur is draining some clutch shots. We're used to seeing that happen. At least he's doing it against the Knicks as well.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Knicks by 2. See-saw battle. This game is featuring a great battle between Okur and CUrry.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Holy ****. Big drive by Memo! Game tied. Knicks have time for a final shot. Time out, 13 seconds to go.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Crawford held that too long and took a bad shot. It does look like Fisher might have bumped him. Lucky Jazz, lucky us.

OT to come.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Utah pulls it out by 2 in OT. Whew, we caught a break tonight. 

The Knicks are at 22-29, and if the season ended today, they'd be in position for the 11th pick (before the lottery).


----------



## yodurk

What's more impressive:

a)Crawford and Curry combining for 56 points?, or
b)Crawford and Curry combining for 14 turnovers?

I'm not sure I can answer that, really. Thankfully, Knicks failed to steal yet another game that they have no business winning.


----------



## The ROY

11th pick? yuck...

It's okay though, just as LONG as we get Mr. Gasol soon


----------



## rwj333

The ROY said:


> 11th pick? yuck...
> 
> It's okay though, just as LONG as we get Mr. Gasol soon


I have them at 9th... How are you getting 11th? 

Now that Toronto has ended the fantasy of the Knicks making the playoffs, the goal is to get a top 7 pick, because a top 7 pick has a 10% chance of becoming top 2. Any draft slot out of the top 7 is *extremely* likely to stay the same. 

The Knicks aren't going to be worse than Seattle, Charlotte, Philadelphia, Memphis, or Boston. So the Bulls need 2 out of Portland, Atlanta, and Milwaukee to win more than the Knicks. That guarantees 7th slot. There's no difference between 6th and 7th in terms of lottery chances, but there is a significant dropoff between 7 and 8.


----------



## The ROY

rwj333 said:


> I have them at 9th... How are you getting 11th?
> 
> Now that Toronto has ended the fantasy of the Knicks making the playoffs, the goal is to get a top 7 pick, because a top 7 pick has a 10% chance of becoming top 2. Any draft slot out of the top 7 is *extremely* likely to stay the same.
> 
> The Knicks aren't going to be worse than Seattle, Charlotte, Philadelphia, Memphis, or Boston. So the Bulls need 2 out of Portland, Atlanta, and Milwaukee to win more than the Knicks. That guarantees 7th slot. There's no difference between 6th and 7th in terms of lottery chances, but there is a significant dropoff between 7 and 8.


Someone just said 11th two posts above me


----------



## charlietyra

yodurk said:


> What's more impressive:
> 
> a)Crawford and Curry combining for 56 points?, or
> b)Crawford and Curry combining for 14 turnovers?
> 
> I'm not sure I can answer that, really. Thankfully, Knicks failed to steal yet another game that they have no business winning.



IMO, posters fail to do the math on how valuable good scorers can be. For example, let's say that those 14 turnovers led to the other team scoring a two-point field goal each time as a result. That is 28 points. A more likely scenario is that it would lead to only about 12 points. Curry and Crawford's offensive production would still be a major plus notwithstanding.

Also, many posters complain about Curry's rebounding, or lack thereof. Seven rebounds per game is ok in my book if he scores 25 points. If Curry pulled down 10 rebounds a game but only scored 12 points per game does that make him a better player?


----------



## eymang

crawford to curry alleyoop beats the lakers in final seconds


----------



## DaBullz

charlietyra said:


> IMO, posters fail to do the math on how valuable good scorers can be. For example, let's say that those 14 turnovers led to the other team scoring a two-point field goal each time as a result. That is 28 points. A more likely scenario is that it would lead to only about 12 points. Curry and Crawford's offensive production would still be a major plus notwithstanding.
> 
> Also, many posters complain about Curry's rebounding, or lack thereof. Seven rebounds per game is ok in my book if he scores 25 points. If Curry pulled down 10 rebounds a game but only scored 12 points per game does that make him a better player?


+2
and 1


----------



## The ROY

The faster we trade the pick, the better. I'm tired of following the Knicks.


----------



## theanimal23

Curry with the game winner tonight vs LAL. 

We need to include this pick ASAP in the trade for Gasol and try to convince West to lower his price by including it.


----------



## yodurk

My gosh, what a terrible night to be a Bulls fan. We lose by 1, and the Knicks win by 1 (and a game they had no business winning!). The Lakers are one of the best home teams in the league. Argh. I want to dump this pick as soon as possible. And could David Lee please have maybe ONE bad game? Pretty please? From what I read, he pretty much made their game-winning dunk happen.


----------



## ScottMay

yodurk said:


> My gosh, what a terrible night to be a Bulls fan. We lose by 1, and the Knicks win by 1 (and a game they had no business winning!). The Lakers are one of the best home teams in the league. Argh. I want to dump this pick as soon as possible. And could David Lee please have maybe ONE bad game? Pretty please? From what I read, he pretty much made their game-winning dunk happen.


The Knicks are 10-11 vs. the West this year, and the Lakers have been wretched lately. I wouldn't put this one in the "had no business winning" category.

Bah. The one real regret I have is that the Bulls didn't give Curry and Chandler honest-to-goodness big-man coaches. The difference that Aguirre has made in Curry's game in just a matter of months is pretty astounding. He still doesn't recognize double-teams and he's still a lousy passer, but he does such a better job of establishing himself in the low post and sealing off his man. And once he does that, it's lights freaking out. You're not going to stop him when he gets the ball in one of his happy spots.


----------



## yodurk

ScottMay said:


> The Knicks are 10-11 vs. the West this year, and the Lakers have been wretched lately. I wouldn't put this one in the "had no business winning" category.
> 
> Bah. The one real regret I have is that the Bulls didn't give Curry and Chandler honest-to-goodness big-man coaches. The difference that Aguirre has made in Curry's game in just a matter of months is pretty astounding. He still doesn't recognize double-teams and he's still a lousy passer, but he does such a better job of establishing himself in the low post and sealing off his man. And once he does that, it's lights freaking out. You're not going to stop him when he gets the ball in one of his happy spots.


I guess I looked at it as the Knicks being 9-16 on the road, versus the Lakers who were 19-6 at home. Plus I thought the Lakers would be a little peeved about losing in NY (the game Kobe was suspended for).

I truly consider David Lee to be the Knicks' MVP this year. He is the epitome of efficieny. He leads the NBA in FG% (61%) and I think he's top 5 or 6 in rebounds per 48 minutes. Seems to be in the middle of all their clutch plays this season. Good passer, hits free throws and midrange jumpers. Really a perfect compliment for Curry, unfortunately.


----------



## truth

ScottMay said:


> Bah. The one real regret I have is that the Bulls didn't give Curry and Chandler honest-to-goodness big-man coaches. The difference that Aguirre has made in Curry's game in just a matter of months is pretty astounding. He still doesn't recognize double-teams and he's still a lousy passer, but he does such a better job of establishing himself in the low post and sealing off his man. And once he does that, it's lights freaking out. You're not going to stop him when he gets the ball in one of his happy spots.


Scott,much of the credit has to go to Aguirre,but Zeke has to get mucho props as well.He beleives in Curry,he forced Starbury to believe in him,and most important he got Curry to believe in Curry..Curry is no better a rebounder than he was in Chitown,but you would NEVER hear Zeke tell reporters "Curry needs to jump" to get rebounds..It is all love,and it is working...

Where Curry is vastly improved is, he now stays out of foul trouble.I would also argue that he now does recognise doubles,its just that he was so ^%%ing clueless before that its gonna take some time to become a "bad to average" passer..

I also think Curry has matured and you can see he is in MUCH better shape.With that said,Agguire has certainly taught him well how to seal off his defender.Since Yao embarrassed Curry early on,he has become a Force in the middle,and he hasnt scratched the surface yet.

This is coming from a Knick fan who wanted to trade Curry for Dalembert 3 months ago..


----------



## Da Grinch

truth said:


> Scott,much of the credit has to go to Aguirre,but Zeke has to get mucho props as well.He beleives in Curry,he forced Starbury to believe in him,and most important he got Curry to believe in Curry..Curry is no better a rebounder than he was in Chitown,but you would NEVER hear Zeke tell reporters "Curry needs to jump" to get rebounds..It is all love,and it is working...
> 
> Where Curry is vastly improved is, he now stays out of foul trouble.I would also argue that he now does recognise doubles,its just that he was so ^%%ing clueless before that its gonna take some time to become a "bad to average" passer..
> 
> I also think Curry has matured and you can see he is in MUCH better shape.With that said,Agguire has certainly taught him well how to seal off his defender.Since Yao embarrassed Curry early on,he has become a Force in the middle,and he hasnt scratched the surface yet.
> 
> This is coming from a Knick fan who wanted to trade Curry for Dalembert 3 months ago..


after a rough 5-11 start in which they were trying to establish curry as the #1 guy and he was floundering they have been .500 since (18-18) at that pace they are going to finish with 38 wins , if the season ended today that would net the bulls the 10th pick ...i think with a growing # of teams tanking and the rate stars have been going MIA they are a pretty good bet to make that 38 mark...because you know they have no reason to tank, they have to look to the central division to see where they are picking and I.Thomas who they love has his job on the line.


----------



## yodurk

Da Grinch said:


> I.Thomas who they love has his job on the line.


It's precisely this reason why I did not want Isiah Thomas to become coach this year. Most people laughed at the notion, but alot of Bulls fans here suspected that it would light a fire under the Knicks, if anything. Turns out we were right.

What I wouldn't give to have Larry Brown still coaching this team. As bad as they were last year, I really thought they'd give him more than just 1 year to pull them from the gutter. Then that whole mess happened over the summer.


----------



## yodurk

Warriors had like a 28-point lead on the Knicks in the 3rd quarter.

Not surprisingly, Knicks are starting their furious comback (got the lead down to 14 entering the 4th quarter). How in the hell do these guys do this? A 40-point 3rd quarter is freaking ridiculous.

Edit: 8 minutes left in the game, Knicks cut it down to 9. Down to 4 minutes, Warriors got the lead back up to 17. Whew.


----------



## giusd

The bulls will end up with the 10th pick in the draft. The knicks schecule gets much harder after the all star break and even if they play 500 ball (which seems unlikely) they would finish with 37 and 45 and still end up in the lotto.

david


----------



## The ROY

35-40 wins, I already called it. The Lotto pick will be between 8-13

23-30 going into the break..I could see them winning another 14-17 games or so...

Thank GOD Channing Frye isn't as good as he was in his rookie season..


----------



## JeremyB0001

What about trading up in the draft? Assuming a deal for Gasol or another big time post player doesn't go down I think it might be a good call if the right players come out and the price isn't exhorbitant. Right now the Knicks pick is sitting at 10 meaning that going with a post player probably means something along the lines of Splitter, McRoberts, or perhaps Jianlan. Right now Chad Ford has Hawes and Horford at 6 and 7 on his draft board. 

Both players are very well regarded and can likely play right away, Horford because he has an NBA ready body and Hawes because his post moves are suppposedly advanced. 15 PPG for Hawes and 12.6 PPG for Horford may not jump out at you but when you consider they are putting up those numbers in 28 and 26.4 minutes respectively, I think that indicates pretty serious scoring ability (those figures are as even better than Aldridge who average 15 PPG in 33 MPG last season). 

If you ask me there's a big dropoff after those two go off the board if you're looking for post offense. How much would it take to move up 3-5 spots in the draft? Theoretically a fraction of what we're talking about giving up in some of these other deals. Maybe Thabo or a future first rounder gets it done, especially if we can strike a deal with a team that is already set in the front court (Charlotte and Milwaukee come to mind). 

Obviously the huge if here is who comes out. Even if both Hawes and Horford declare, if a couple players espected to go in the top five stay in school we'd suddenly need to move up to 3 or 5 and the price might be too high. This could become an interesting discussion in the following weeks and months.


----------



## The ROY

Personally, I'm tired of having to focus on NY's pick and the draft in GENERAL. When are we gonna stop adding all these kids man? If the pick isn't Hawes, Wright, Oden or Durant, trade it. That's just my opinion though.

We have ENOUGH young talent to develop (Deng, Hinrich, Gordon, Thomas, Sefolosha). I'm absolutely fine with trading the pick and holding on to those two 2nd rounders and developing them.


----------



## JeremyB0001

The ROY said:


> Personally, I'm tired of having to focus on NY's pick and the draft in GENERAL. When are we gonna stop adding all these kids man? If the pick isn't Hawes, Wright, Oden or Durant, trade it. That's just my opinion though.
> 
> We have ENOUGH young talent to develop (Deng, Hinrich, Gordon, Thomas, Sefolosha). I'm absolutely fine with trading the pick and holding on to those two 2nd rounders and developing them.


Well technically that's what we'd be doing if we traded up.

I'm not entirely sure why (Thabo and Tyrus' struggles to contribute on a competitive team this season?) but there seems to be a tendancy to forget how good the draft has been to us in the Pax era. I look at how much we would end up trading for someone like May who was drafted in the late lottery just a couple of seasons ago and wonder why people aren't more enthusiastic about using the pick for a big man. After all, it's free. The horrofic post scoring the team has right now means virtually any post player the team drafted (except maybe Thabeet) would immediately improve our biggest hole and we don't have to give up anything. Using the pick also doesn't preclude us from making smaller moves (Mihm, Nazr, etc.) to improve at the same time. 

People act despondent that we're going to win only 45 or 47 games this season instead of 50 but act completely disinsterested with the fact that a couple of small moves can put us there pretty easily next season. Go figure.


----------



## The ROY

gee thanks pax

now the only thing we have to look forward to is the draft lottery


----------



## DaBullz

Thank goodness the knicks won the lottery.


----------



## DaBullz

Here's a nice thought.

Wade is out for 6 weeks.

Miami right now has the 8th seed. Should they falter, the Nets are 2 games behind them and guess who's 3 games behind?

That's right, the Knicks.

They're also 3 games out of the 7th seed (Orlando).


----------



## Soulful Sides

Wade might be out for the season according to Truehoop.


----------



## DaBullz

Soulful Sides said:


> Wade might be out for the season according to Truehoop.


ESPNEWS, too


----------



## theanimal23

Solid Trade Pax. Way to use your assets.


----------



## The ROY

ARGH!! I can't believe I (and we lol) have to follow the Knicks for 27 more friggin' games....


----------



## Hustle

I'm not worried about falling out of the top 10. The Knicks next 7 are very easy games. After that their shedule is not very kind for the rest of the season, only 4 games against teams have a worse record than they do. 

I think ATL's move for Johnson will be huge! Well, alright maybe not, but I do think it will be enough to catch the Knicks (currently 2.5 down). Before the move I felt like they were on the up and up and now they have a decent distributor. Charlttoe (same record as Hawks) have also been playing better of late.

Most importantly NJ didn't trade Kidd for young talent.

The Sonics with Lewis back have almost been a downright good team. Currently 2nd to worst (only 2 behinde NY) in the west I feel very strongly they surpass the Knicks. 

As well as Portland who went out and got a little more talented with the addition of Fred Jones, who may seem like a so-so addition but is actually a greatly needed athlete for that team.

If I was a betting man(and I am), I'd say only Memphis in the west ends up being a lower pick than NY. Overall I think one of ATL or Charlotte will overtake them and Miami and NJ will keep their heads above water and fight out that last spot.

Pick 6?

5.3% 6% 7%


----------



## Hustle

TOP 6 ? 

Greg Oden, Kevin Durant
Brandon Wright
Hawes/Jialian/Noah/Horford/Thabeet
McRoberts/Budinger/Collison/Crittenton

There is still a 4-29% chance of landing top 3.


----------



## The ROY

While SOME teams will start coasting when they're playoff position become secured, NY will still be playing HARD just for their own dignity.

I don't see us getting anything LESS than the 10th pick. Looks like we should start studying the prospects harder now.


----------



## yodurk

Oh joy, another 2-pt victory for our beloved Knicks. Do these guys ever win by more than 1 possession? Sure doesn't seem like it.

This time, they were awarded 2 free throws with 0.8 seconds left to win the game. Not as dramatic as those David Lee 2nd chance points or the tip-ins with 1/10 of a second left. :sour:

EDIT: I just saw the replay on ESPN of the ending of Knicks/Bucks tonight. That was a CHEAP foul call on Bogut. That game should've gone to OT. Chalk up another lucky one for NY.


----------



## The ROY

So, they're 2-1 since the break.

NJ, Orlando & Miami need to step the hell up.


----------



## narek

yodurk said:


> Oh joy, another 2-pt victory for our beloved Knicks. Do these guys ever win by more than 1 possession? Sure doesn't seem like it.
> 
> This time, they were awarded 2 free throws with 0.8 seconds left to win the game. Not as dramatic as those David Lee 2nd chance points or the tip-ins with 1/10 of a second left. :sour:
> 
> EDIT: I just saw the replay on ESPN of the ending of Knicks/Bucks tonight. That was a CHEAP foul call on Bogut. That game should've gone to OT. Chalk up another lucky one for NY.


I watched the whole game. It would help if Stotts had a decent out of bounds play (Yes, Mo, throw it into a crowd around the basket!). 
But what a stupid call at the end of a game.


----------



## The ROY

The Knicks are TWO games out of the 8th seed.

We should of traded that pick when we had the chance, chances are VERY slim that we'll even get a lotto pick with the way things are going.

Currently, their only competition for that seed is New Jersey & Miami

Charlotte (only 2.5 games behind NY, but they're not gonna do anything)	
Atlanta (done, regardless of where they are)
Milwaukee (done, or they're gonna have to go on a MEANNNNNN streak to even get in playoff talks, very unlikely)
Philadelphia (absolutely done)
Boston (knitting Durant and Oden jersey's daily)

If Orlando (currently SLIPPING hard), New Jersey & Miami (without Wade? ouch) can hold onto their current spots, they can keep NY out of the playoffs for us. Toronto's locked the division up with a 5 game lead, so that's their's from the looks of things.

It just LOOKS to be NY's year to get to the off's though, too many injuries and issues in the east this year to keep them out.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

Y'know the Rox lucked into Mi Yao from the 12 spot if memory serves

Chins up Bulls fans ! Especially if you have more than one !

It would be all the more Nene Hilario if the Knicks missed the playoffs by half a game , wind up in 14th position , and win the lottery

Good times


----------



## JeremyB0001

The ROY said:


> The Knicks are TWO games out of the 8th seed.
> 
> We should of traded that pick when we had the chance, chances are VERY slim that we'll even get a lotto pick with the way things are going.


The odds are slim that the Knicks _won't_ pass two teams? Can't say I agree with that. Dropping from 10th to 14th would be a disappointment but far from the end of the world. It's entirely possible that we'd end up with the same player either way.


----------



## BG7

Rockets had the 5th best odds.

Hmm, still 5 balls out of 1000 are good odds! If you had those in a regular lottery, you'd feel damn good. Then when it can potentially become a 5 out of 750 balls (for 2nd pick) since this is a two #1 caliber draft, that is valuable. It'd be nice to have more balls (well actually more combinations), but in the end, the only good numbers, are the winning numbers.

Or the NBA can just make it easy for us and rig the damn thing.


----------



## THEbigO

so with crawford out for the knicks. we can be a little more hopeful for the pick. everybody pray the knicks go on a cold streak. i want a lottery pick.


----------



## theanimal23

My guy in this draft outside the Big 2 is Horford. Hawes sounds like another Curry clone with better passing but poor rebounding. I wouldn't mind him, but Horford is who I want. The guy has a wide and solid body and some interior moves. I like the kid a lot. Comes from a winning program, and probably fits the bill in terms of what we usually draft.

Tyrus is nice, but Horford is probably more ready today. We might need to trade up. 

I don't know if Pax would trade up, and what assets he would use, but how many of you would use Tyrus as a bargaining chip to get Horford? Just curious.


----------



## THEbigO

al horford has a wide body? since when?


----------



## Soulful Sides

The Sports Guy posts an update on Mr. Oden:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/blog/index?name=simmons



> For the season, Oden's averaging 15.3 points, 9.5 rebounds and 3.5 blocks per game (very good stats, but not eye-opening or anything). He doesn't have any low-post moves other than an ugly-but-effective jump-hook. He's an OK passer … but certainly not Walton-esque. He doesn't play with the same ferocious, intimidating fire that Alonzo Mourning displayed at Georgetown. He isn't a dominant, physical presence along the lines of Shaq at LSU, or an extraordinary athlete like Hakeem Olajuwon at Houston, or a gifted natural scorer like David Robinson at Navy. Everyone seems to think he's a mortal lock to evolve into a franchise center … and I have to say, I haven't seen it yet. If OSU ever played Texas, there's no doubt in my mind that Kevin Durant would emerge as the alpha dog on the court.
> 
> We'll give Oden the benefit of the doubt for the following things:
> 
> 1. He's playing with a broken right wrist that hasn't totally healed yet.
> 2. He's a freshman and he's only 18.


Discussion of the points at the link above and more points too...along with a comparison to Robert Parish of all people.


----------



## Showtyme

Crawford out means Knicks will be worse, but with Wally out, the Celtics will stay terrible. And the Magic are suddenly falling off the planet.

The playoff picture, strangely, looks like this: Detroit, Toronto, The Central Division Minus The Bucks, and sub-500 teams (Miami and NJ right now, rightfully, but the Knicks are only two games out from the Magic for the 8th spot).

We really need to cheer on Orlando, New Jersey, and Miami to push hard for the playoffs. 

The weird thing is that I think those are three of the five most talented teams in the East. And one of them is likely not to make the playoffs. Bizarre.

When they're healthy, I think New Jersey's starting five are as talented as anyone in the LEAGUE. They've got some young players on the bench. If they can land a PF there, and get healthy, I don't see them being worse than Dallas, Phoenix, or Detroit next season.

Kidd
Carter
Jefferson
Anonymous PF
Krstic

Marcus Williams, Mikki Moore, and a rejuvenated Bostjan Nachbar and Eddie House (both shooting around 40% from the arc and combining for 16 ppg from the bench). That's a real team.

Orlando's got the future #1 big in the league in Dwight Howard, and Miami's the reigning champs. Something about the Eastern Conference, I swear.


----------



## andras

Showtyme said:


> The playoff picture, strangely, looks like this: Detroit, Toronto, The Central Division Minus The Bucks, and sub-500 teams (Miami and NJ right now, rightfully, but the Knicks are only two games out from the Magic for the 8th spot)


You forgot Washington. Magic are out off the playoffs right now
http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Cnf.html

BTW 'The Central Division Minus The Bucks' actually includes Detroit, but I agree they deserve a special mention being the best team in the East :greatjob:


----------



## McBulls

Showtyme said:


> Crawford out means Knicks will be worse, but with Wally out, the Celtics will stay terrible. And the Magic are suddenly falling off the planet.
> 
> The playoff picture, strangely, looks like this: Detroit, Toronto, The Central Division Minus The Bucks, and sub-500 teams (Miami and NJ right now, rightfully, but the Knicks are only two games out from the Magic for the 8th spot).
> 
> We really need to cheer on Orlando, New Jersey, and Miami to push hard for the playoffs.
> 
> The weird thing is that I think those are three of the five most talented teams in the East. And one of them is likely not to make the playoffs. Bizarre.
> 
> Orlando's got the future #1 big in the league in Dwight Howard, and Miami's the reigning champs. Something about the Eastern Conference, I swear.


Crawford was an important player for NY, primarily because of his long experience playing with Curry. He's also developed in to a decent defensive player. They're not going to replace him easily. Maybe we end up moving up a few notches to the 8th pick or so. :gopray: From there maybe we can trade up a few spots using the 2nd rounders & Khryapa (a young, talented expiring contract)

Orlando has got some troubles coming up next summer. They have to replace Grant Hill somehow, since I doubt he'll be coming back. They also have to offer Darko at least a qualifying offer of $6.8 million -- which he is not really worth. That leaves Howard, Turkolu and a bag a chips on that team. These are their good old days.


----------



## JeremyB0001

This inclusion on Chad Ford's new "Who's Hot In The Draft" article is pretty intriguing:



> Brook Lopez, C, Stanford
> 
> The hottest center in the draft these days is a freshman, but his name isn't Greg Oden. Yes, Oden will likely be the No. 1 pick in the draft. But Stanford's Brook Lopez is actually putting up bigger numbers of late.
> 
> Lopez, along with his twin brother, Robin, was considered an elite prospect coming into Stanford. But scouts thought the brothers were at least two years away from the NBA. An early-season injury to Lopez didn't help his stock early on. But ever since a remarkable 18-point, 11-rebound, 12-block game against USC in late January, the 18-year-old 7-footer has been on fire.
> 
> Over the last four games, Lopez is averaging 23 ppg, 8.3 rpg on 53 percent shooting and drawing serious looks from NBA GMs and scouts. A month ago, no one had Lopez as a likely first-round pick this season (although most scouts had him pegged as a lottery pick down the road). Now? A quick survey of NBA scouts and executive over the weekend found that Lopez was in the Top 10 on the draft boards of everyone I spoke with.
> 
> While no one believes he has the upside of Oden or Washington's Spencer Hawes, big men rise on draft day and Lopez looks to be a hot name if he declares.


http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=2781989&name=ford_chad


----------



## dougthonus

> When they're healthy, I think New Jersey's starting five are as talented as anyone in the LEAGUE. They've got some young players on the bench. If they can land a PF there, and get healthy, I don't see them being worse than Dallas, Phoenix, or Detroit next season.


I think New Jersey sucks. Let's see, they've basically had the same group of players the past 2 years, and they didn't do anything either of those, but now everyone is 2 years older which is not a good thing for Kidd who's on his last legs or Carter who's had knee problems his whole career. 

I'll give you a preview of next season. New Jersey will still suck. They'll likely lose Carter and regret not trading Kidd, and they'll try to rebuild around mediocre draft picks that they've acquired and fail, and in 2 years, they'll likely be the worst team in the Atlantic.


----------



## dougthonus

> the Celtics will stay terrible.


If the Knicks didn't win another game this year, the Celtics wouldn't pass them, so that ship has sailed already.

The Knicks right now are steadily climbing the lottery ranks in the wrong direction for us. They're now tied for 10th and could easily end up at 11th and still have an outside shot of a playoff birth. They Knicks have palyed at a .500 pace for an awful long time despite a variety of injuries to different players. I don't think Crawford will make a big impact there. 

I see the Knicks finishing up the rest of the season near a .500 pace and getting 37-38 wins.


----------



## dougthonus

As a side note, the Knicks schedule overall is pretty neutral trending a bit more towards difficult than easy.


----------



## JeremyB0001

From Chad Ford's chat today:



> Butch (Birmingham): Assuming the Bulls get a pick in the 7-11 range, who do you think will be available for them there who fits their need of a scoring big man?
> 
> SportsNation Chad Ford: Spencer Hawes seems like a really good fit for them ... though I'm not sure he'll be on the board when they pick. Al Horford of Florida, Brook Lopez of Stanford and Josh McRoberts of Duke are other guys who might be a nice fit.


http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=14791


----------



## Ron Cey

I can't see Hawes being available for the Bulls. Its possible, though, that the Bulls could trade up for him (unlike Durant and Oden who no one will be able to trade up for).


----------



## Soulful Sides

A Open Letter to Oden:



> I'd be very careful about declaring for the draft this year. But don't base your decision on some sanctimonious bunk about learning the college game another year with Thad Matta, who has often seemed perplexed as to how best to use your talents. Base your decision on the results of the draft lottery.
> 
> You would have been the No. 1 pick last year, you will -- and should -- be the No. 1 pick this year and you'll be the No. 1 pick next year. Heck, even if you tore your ACL and faced a year-long recovery, do you think you would fall any farther in the draft than ... fifth?
> 
> With that sort of reputation, you have a unique opportunity to select -- to a degree -- your first professional home. And as Kevin Garnett and Dwyane Wade can both attest, organization is everything. Pick a good one, one with smarts, creativity and boldness, and the wins and media plaudits will follow. Fall to a misguided one, and you'll be destined to carry the weight of front-office mistakes and a parade of coaches for years.
> 
> Unfortunately for NBA fans, were you to follow that criteria, you might well be wise to remain at Ohio State. The three likeliest potential landing places for you this June are a Grizzlies team that may be breaking in a new GM; a 76ers team that could use a break from its GM; and a Celtics team with a GM who might be breaking up his team. The lure of rebooting NBA basketball in flagship cities such as Boston or Philly may be too strong a lure to ignore, but don't forget, you have options, Greg.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/paul_forrester/02/28/chandler.hornets.notes/4.html


----------



## Ron Cey

Soulful Sides said:


> A Open Letter to Oden:
> 
> 
> 
> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/paul_forrester/02/28/chandler.hornets.notes/4.html


Wow. Thats some pretty bad advice to Oden, I think.


----------



## The ROY

Ron Cey said:


> I can't see Hawes being available for the Bulls. Its possible, though, that the Bulls could trade up for him (unlike Durant and Oden who no one will be able to trade up for).


IMO, outside of Oden & Durant obviously, I think Hawes is the BEST fit period for us. I said last year that I had a feeling he'd be a Bull and I'm sticking to it.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

Brandon Wright seems to be similar to Tyrus. So even though he's the 3rd best player in the draft (arguably), Hawes might indeed be the best fit.


----------



## DaBullz

The ROY said:


> IMO, outside of Oden & Durant obviously, I think Hawes is the BEST fit period for us. I said last year that I had a feeling he'd be a Bull and I'm sticking to it.


Add him to this year's roster... does he make us a champ next year? If not, when?

I don't follow college much, so i don't know the first thing about him.


----------



## Da Grinch

DaBullz said:


> Add him to this year's roster... does he make us a champ next year? If not, when?
> 
> I don't follow college much, so i don't know the first thing about him.


i know this about him , he's a frosh , and he isn't ready , too weak and not an explosive althlete , when he gets stronger things may be different, but if he were on this season's roster he'd be in the D-League.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Very impressive battle of blue chippers tonight. As of right now, Thad Young's got 25 points and Brandan Wright has 20. The Jackets might just hold on and beat UNC. I hope they do, because I want to see them in the tournament, and they're on the other side of the bubble right now.


----------



## The ROY

Da Grinch said:


> i know this about him , he's a frosh , and he isn't ready , too weak and not an explosive althlete , when he gets stronger things may be different, but if he were on this season's roster he'd be in the D-League.


No way Hawes would be in the D-League...there are Centers in the league that don't have his array of post moves.....


----------



## ScottMay

We really need to pull for GS to win vs the Knicks tonight, but I don't like our chances.

Whereas most coaches would be in a shootaround or meeting with assistants or breaking down tape at the hotel, Don Nelson is currently holding court with a bunch of well-wishers at a cigar shop on 6th Avenue.

Way to take that $30 million and run, Don!


----------



## JeremyB0001

Ron Cey said:


> Wow. Thats some pretty bad advice to Oden, I think.


I found it pretty crazy to imply that the Celtics would be a poor situation for Oden. You would think that pairing an Oden-Jefferson front court paired with Pierce not to mention a group of high upside young players would net 45 wins next season.


----------



## Da Grinch

ScottMay said:


> We really need to pull for GS to win vs the Knicks tonight, but I don't like our chances.
> 
> Whereas most coaches would be in a shootaround or meeting with assistants or breaking down tape at the hotel, Don Nelson is currently holding court with a bunch of well-wishers at a cigar shop on 6th Avenue.
> 
> Way to take that $30 million and run, Don!


the knicks for the most part seem hot and cold , with decent talent ...outside of the atlantic division they are 24-25...and an almost unbeliveable 2-8 in their own division which is the nba's worst...since the warriors beat them last time i'd say they are a pretty sound bet to win 2nite ...if the opposite happen they would most likely lose ...its they way i've been guessing they'd win all season , its been a pretty solid indicator.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Just how high of a pick would it take us to land Spencer Hawes? I'm watching him and Washington battle UCLA, and he's once again scoring in a variety of ways. He's rather skinny right now, with not much upper or lower body strength, but the offensive skills, height, and length are there.

Meanwhile, Durant had 25 in the first half against Kansas in Kansas until he came down with a turned ankle in the second half. That kid is a flat out offensive juggernaut.

A player like Thad Young could be a steal for someone in the later lottery this year. Not that we need him: he's another 3. There are going to be some serious players in this draft.

Hawes
Horford
Jianlian
Splitter
Hibbert

It all depends where that Knicks pick turns out.


----------



## RoRo

nice game from hawes. uw beats ucla. 

he needs some strength. not all that explosive, but looks athletic enough to cover some ground on the defensive end.

he has some good offensive moves, showed a nice jump hook.
doesn't think he's a jumpshooter. good strong hands. 
really good passer, UW ran alot of plays through him and he set up his pf brockman very well.


----------



## Hustle

semi randum fact

Hawes runs a 5:22 mile


----------



## ScottMay

The Knicks are a game out of the eight seed. Unbelievable.


----------



## charlietyra

ScottMay said:


> The Knicks are a game out of the eight seed. Unbelievable.



We Bulls fans are going to learn to love Aaron Gray. Or, should we call him Aaron "Found Money" Gray?


----------



## Da Grinch

The ROY said:


> No way Hawes would be in the D-League...there are Centers in the league that don't have his array of post moves.....


and..is he strong enough to get position so he can actually use them?


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

I watched the UNC-Duke game today. I didn't catch the first 10 minutes of the game, though, so I didn't catch Wright's scoring burst. McRoberts looked very questionable. He is clearly a comfortable passer and a good handler for his size, but he turned the ball over far too many times. He also doesn't seem very strong. He doesn't use his bulk nearly as well as Hansbrough, a considerably smaller player. I can't say for certain that McRoberts isn't going to be a good NBA player, but he looks soft and a little slower than I thought. I agree with nbadraft.net's comparison: a less talented Chris Webber. He's got that kind of softish all court game.

Hansbrough looked a little shorter than I remembered. He's listed at 6' 9", but I don't think he's any taller than 6' 8". He's got a good blend of upper and lower body strength, but he doesn't have a tremendous amount of lift when in traffic. His shot was blocked often by the larger player on Duke. He was most effective when he used his weight to bully the Duke defenders. I can see, though, why detractors think he will not be effective on the next level.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I watched the UNC-Duke game today. I didn't catch the first 10 minutes of the game, though, so I didn't catch Wright's scoring burst. McRoberts looked very questionable. He is clearly a comfortable passer and a good handler for his size, but he turned the ball over far too many times. He also doesn't seem very strong. He doesn't use his bulk nearly as well as Hansbrough, a considerably smaller player. I can't say for certain that McRoberts isn't going to be a good NBA player, but he looks soft and a little slower than I thought. I agree with nbadraft.net's comparison: a less talented Chris Webber. He's got that kind of softish all court game.
> 
> Hansbrough looked a little shorter than I remembered. He's listed at 6' 9", but I don't think he's any taller than 6' 8". He's got a good blend of upper and lower body strength, but he doesn't have a tremendous amount of lift when in traffic. His shot was blocked often by the larger player on Duke. He was most effective when he used his weight to bully the Duke defenders. I can see, though, why detractors think he will not be effective on the next level.


I agree 100%. I don't think either of those white boys are going to be worth a damn in the NBA. I'm a UNC fan, and I like Hansbrough, but every time I watch him play, he goes for that 2 handed stuff and gets blocked a lot. He has his good moments, and strong points, but he needs to quit trying that move, cause it doesn't work. McRoberts on the other hand, is the exact opposite. He has the size, but he's too slow and uncoordinated. I've never been impressed with him in the least. Terry, Wright and Lawson are the guys on UNC that might turn into something in the NBA. I'd be very happy with Wright in Red and Black next year. He's pretty raw, but I think he's a lot like Tyrus...6'9"ish, 7'5" wingspan, athletic, and explosive. Tyrus is more of a shot blocker though I think. Lawson is quick and can really play, and Terry is just an all around good player. Ellington is another guy that might be a good NBA player. I'd be surprised if any of Duke's players turn out to be any good in the NBA. That's the way UNC vs Duke always has been though. Competitive in college, but the Tarheels are better pros as a rule. Jordan, Carter, Rasheed, Stackhouse, Jamison vs Grant Hill, Brand, Luol....every Tarheel I mentioned is better than any of those Dukies.


----------



## JeremyB0001

Da Grinch said:


> i know this about him , he's a frosh , and he isn't ready , too weak and not an explosive althlete , when he gets stronger things may be different, but if he were on this season's roster he'd be in the D-League.


Whether or not Hawes can step in and contribute for an NBA team immediately without a lot of muscle is probably a good, reasonable debate. This comment comes off as either inciteful hyperbole or a misunderstanding of how NBA teams use the D-League. So far, teams have only used the D-League for 18 and 19 year old foreign and high school players drafted in the late first round or later so suggesting that a 7 footer with an advanced skill set who might go as high as fourth in the upcomming draft belongs there is a pretty extreme statement.


----------



## RoRo

JeremyB0001 said:


> Whether or not Hawes can step in and contribute for an NBA team immediately without a lot of muscle is probably a good, reasonable debate. This comment comes off as either inciteful hyperbole or a misunderstanding of how NBA teams use the D-League. So far, teams have only used the D-League for 18 and 19 year old foreign and high school players drafted in the late first round or later so suggesting that a 7 footer with an advanced skill set who might go as high as fourth in the upcomming draft belongs there is a pretty extreme statement.


i'd consider the d-league for guys who's bodies are either underdeveloped or don't a sufficent understanding of the game.

hawes may be weak but he is a legit 250 pounds. and a legit 7 footer. in the games i've seen he has the iq to be patient and make reads and then execute. i like the way UW has been using him on Hi-Lo action to set up Brockman.

he might not be a starter on this years team, but he'd be a great fit just as a zone busting big man. a tall target like that to flash into the free throw line. then he has the iq to make the proper play. that alone would get him pt on this team.


----------



## Da Grinch

JeremyB0001 said:


> Whether or not Hawes can step in and contribute for an NBA team immediately without a lot of muscle is probably a good, reasonable debate. This comment comes off as either inciteful hyperbole or a misunderstanding of how NBA teams use the D-League. So far, teams have only used the D-League for 18 and 19 year old foreign and high school players drafted in the late first round or later so suggesting that a 7 footer with an advanced skill set who might go as high as fourth in the upcomming draft belongs there is a pretty extreme statement.


i dont think you are correct on that?


is he so much more advanced as a frosh than lets say patrick o'bryant is now?

skills are nice , but if your body isn't ready to let you show what you got , you ride pine in the nba ...or you go to the D-league ...since he is not nearly a finished product for his sake if he were drafted I would hope he would have been playing getting the court time he and any 19 year old desperately needs.


----------



## JeremyB0001

Da Grinch said:


> i dont think you are correct on that?
> 
> 
> is he so much more advanced as a frosh than lets say patrick o'bryant is now?
> 
> skills are nice , but if your body isn't ready to let you show what you got , you ride pine in the nba ...or you go to the D-league ...since he is not nearly a finished product for his sake if he were drafted I would hope he would have been playing getting the court time he and any 19 year old desperately needs.


I'm not ready to guarantee that Hawes would be able to contribute in major minutes right now (though I think it's a possibility), but there's a world of difference between playing limited minutes off the bench (like Tyrus and Thabo) and playing in the NBDL. The O'Bryant example does go a ways towards disproving my theory that only high school and foreign teenagers picked late in the draft go to the D-League but the two aren't particularly similar. O'Bryant was the 9th pick out of a mid-major in a weak draft while Hawes currently projects as a top 5 pick from a major conference in a very strong draft.


----------



## JeremyB0001

RoRo said:


> i'd consider the d-league for guys who's bodies are either underdeveloped or don't a sufficent understanding of the game.


I'm not sure that teams shouldn't use the D-League more. The problem is that teams like to supervise the work habits and development of players when they've invested a high draft pick. What happened to Marty certainly has to give GMs pause when sending a legit prospect there. Furthermore, if a team is at all competitive like the Bulls, it's worthwhile to have a player available to contribute even if it's only in five or ten minutes a game.


----------



## Da Grinch

JeremyB0001 said:


> I'm not ready to guarantee that Hawes would be able to contribute in major minutes right now (though I think it's a possibility), but there's a world of difference between playing limited minutes off the bench (like Tyrus and Thabo) and playing in the NBDL. The O'Bryant example does go a ways towards disproving my theory that only high school and foreign teenagers picked late in the draft go to the D-League but the two aren't particularly similar. O'Bryant was the 9th pick out of a mid-major in a weak draft while Hawes currently projects as a top 5 pick from a major conference in a very strong draft.




drafts have a a way of leveling out for the most part so i wouldn't call this past draft weak or this upcoming one strong especially until i know who is declaring, and hawes has not been in any1's top 5 that I have seen nbadraft.net currently has him 11th, so its not like he's seen as a franchise center , there is a world of difference between hawes and that (currently known as oden)...plus there are usually a few guys whose stock jumps up and down based on the NCAA's and personal workouts .

I'm going off what I've seen thus far , and that is a kid who stil needs to significantly strengthen himself to be a real contributor , neither tyrus or thabo are true post players so its not that big a deal if they are weak, it is very much so for a player who expects to be productive posting up like hawes does...plus he's very young , the Dleague was made for guys like him.


----------



## RoRo

JeremyB0001 said:


> I'm not sure that teams shouldn't use the D-League more. The problem is that teams like to supervise the work habits and development of players when they've invested a high draft pick. What happened to Marty certainly has to give GMs pause when sending a legit prospect there. Furthermore, if a team is at all competitive like the Bulls, it's worthwhile to have a player available to contribute even if it's only in five or ten minutes a game.


i guess i'm more curious with how closely tied and common communication is between an nba team and it's affiliate. how do skiles/pax check in on their guy to make sure he's coming along? how do they ensure their guy is getting equal time from the nbdl coaching staff. 

since i'm not familar with that kind of stuff, i see staying with their nba team as a better way to develop. they learn first hand the system. especially important on a defensive help team like the bulls. knowing the rotations etc is important. 

they also get to practice against a higher level of competition etc.


----------



## RoRo

Da Grinch said:


> drafts have a a way of leveling out for the most part so i wouldn't call this past draft weak or this upcoming one strong especially until i know who is declaring, and hawes has not been in any1's top 5 that I have seen nbadraft.net currently has him 11th, so its not like he's seen as a franchise center , there is a world of difference between hawes and that (currently known as oden)...plus there are usually a few guys whose stock jumps up and down based on the NCAA's and personal workouts .
> 
> I'm going off what I've seen thus far , and that is a kid who stil needs to significantly strengthen himself to be a real contributor , neither tyrus or thabo are true post players so its not that big a deal if they are weak, it is very much so for a player who expects to be productive posting up like hawes does...plus he's very young , the Dleague was made for guys like him.


i don't think hawes will be posting people up very soon. but there are times when we could've used a big man that knows how to pass to help break zone defenses. right now ben wallace is our best passing big man and even then he's a bit unpredictable.


----------



## Soulful Sides

Simmons:



> Hawes has been growing on me all season.
> 
> When Chad Ford tossed him into his top 10 earlier in the season, naturally, I was dubious because we've been burned so many times by white centers: Eric Montross, Chris Mihm, Shawn Bradley, Evan Eschmeyer, Alec Kessler, Greg Ostertag, Todd Fuller, Mike Doleac, Scot Pollard (it's an endless list). ... Best-case scenario, you might end up with someone like Chris Kaman or Joel Przybilla (both of whom were top-10 picks). Still, Hawes has a variety of post-up moves; he can score with either hand; he's a surprisingly good athlete and an excellent passer; he plays with genuine fire; he's a good shot blocker; and he runs the floor well for a big guy. He brings more to the table than any non-black, non-Euro center prospect since Raef LaFrentz in 1998. There's just a lot to like with the Hawes package -- he's like a talented Chris Mihm.
> 
> At the same time, Chad just moved Hawes to No. 4 on his top 100, arguably his biggest reach on ESPN.com since he was advocating Pavel Podkolzine for the top five three years ago. Again, I like Hawes as a prospect ... but over Jo Noah and Julian Wright? That's insane. I can't wait to exchange angry e-mails all week with Chad about this. Look, we haven't seen a white, U.S.-born center make the All-Star team since Brad Miller. Before that, it was Mark Eaton in 1989 ... and he was 7-foot-6. Before that, you'd have to go back to Kevin McHale and Bill Laimbeer. Now we're sticking a white center into the top five of the most loaded draft of the decade? I'm going out on a limb and calling this a horrific mistake.
> 
> As for the racial implications of the previous two paragraphs, whaddya want from me? Plodding, semi-athletic 7-footers simply aren't effective anymore and haven't been for some time -- doesn't matter if it's Ostertag, Adonal Foyle, Rasho Nesterovic, Rafael Araujo or whoever else. You need to be able to run the floor, block shots, rebound in traffic and play above the rim at that spot. If you can't do those things, you better have some girth and a killer post-up game like Eddy Curry. For whatever reason, every white center prospect from the past 15 years -- with the exception of Jeff Foster, LaFrentz and Mihm -- has been one of those plodding, old-school center types. And it took until the middle of this decade for teams to realize they were wasting high picks on them. Now we have Hawes, who isn't a plodding, old-school type right now ... but what about eight years from now, when he fills out and doesn't move as well? Just from the history of that position, he's a much bigger risk than Wright or Noah in my opinion.


Not insider, despite what the link says: http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/pag...age2/blog/entry?id=2788593&searchName=simmons


----------



## theanimal23

I played the NBA Lotto Game on ESPN.com, and in probably around 40-50 tries, got the following to happen once: Bulls get the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd picks.

The Sonics get the top two often for a team with a 4-5% chance.

Hypothetical question for you all:
Say Gasol is on the market this offseason (meaning Grizz get the 3rd or 4th pick), we get the first pick, and Oden doesn't come out.

Do you trade Deng, and take Durant? I'm taking Durant no matter what, but would you guys trade Deng? This is a question aimed for the Pro Deng, Anti Gasol trade people. I'm curious to know what you guys would do.

If both guys come out, I don't see Pax passing up Oden if we have the opportunity to pick him. No matter how good Durant will be, our need is too huge for a Center. Although, I would have to wait for workouts to happen to see how good Oden can be, in comparison to Durant.

When we got 3rd in the ESPN lotto game, we picked Hawes. I don't like us picking McRoberts, and this is coming from a Duke fan. I hope we can trade up a few spots to get a better prospect if we get the 12th pick in the draft.


----------



## RoRo

ah this is cool and changes my mind about nbdl a bit 
the sonics have had Swift, Petro, and Sene. for the most part none of them were exceptionally strong. but they were all good athletes. i think Sene is the first one they considered for nbdl, and it was just for a short stint because of depth concerns.

http://www.nba.com/sonics/news/sene070104.html


> The Sonics would have the opportunity to send a member of their staff, possibly Director of Basketball Operations Dave Pendergraft, to Boise to oversee Sene's use, and the affiliate is close enough that members of the coaching staff could potentially check out home games which fall on days off for the Sonics.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

theanimal23 said:


> Hypothetical question for you all:
> Say Gasol is on the market this offseason (meaning Grizz get the 3rd or 4th pick), we get the first pick, and Oden doesn't come out.
> 
> Do you trade Deng, and take Durant? I'm taking Durant no matter what, but would you guys trade Deng? This is a question aimed for the Pro Deng, Anti Gasol trade people. I'm curious to know what you guys would do.
> 
> If both guys come out, I don't see Pax passing up Oden if we have the opportunity to pick him. No matter how good Durant will be, our need is too huge for a Center. Although, I would have to wait for workouts to happen to see how good Oden can be, in comparison to Durant.


In my opinion, if you get the #1, the pick has to be Durant, regardless of if Oden is there or not. Oden doesn't hold a candle to Durant IMO. I think in the scenario that we get Durant at #1, trading Deng for Gasol might very well be the best course of action to take. Deng and filler for Gasol, leaving us with a lineup of:

Kirk, Du-Chump
Lil Ben, Thabo
Durant, Nocioni
Pau, Tyrus
Big Ben (Pau)

That's a pretty good roster for your first 9 guys...well, take out Du-Chump and that's a nice 8 deep roster. We could even play Tyrus at PF and Pau at C at times too. 

Of course, if Deng is able to become a post-up player, he might be worth keeping and playing at the 2 forward positions with Durant. They're both pretty good sized and Durant has more of a perimeter game, and Deng has the inside game.


----------



## theanimal23

DaBabyBullz,

I agree with you. I think Durant is the best player. I wonder if Pax is a believer of BPA or Solid player at Biggest need. Thats the question.

I don't know how well Deng can be as a PF, but I can say this, we could force teams to play to our tempo, and it could scare the hell out of them for certain stretches:

Tyrus, Deng, Durant, Gordon, Kirk.


----------



## The ROY

I like Oden alot but Durant is one of the most incredible talents I've ever seen. He's only 18 years old man, players don't come around like him everyday.


----------



## JeremyB0001

Da Grinch said:


> drafts have a a way of leveling out for the most part so i wouldn't call this past draft weak or this upcoming one strong especially until i know who is declaring, and hawes has not been in any1's top 5 that I have seen nbadraft.net currently has him 11th, so its not like he's seen as a franchise center , there is a world of difference between hawes and that (currently known as oden)...plus there are usually a few guys whose stock jumps up and down based on the NCAA's and personal workouts .
> 
> I'm going off what I've seen thus far , and that is a kid who stil needs to significantly strengthen himself to be a real contributor , neither tyrus or thabo are true post players so its not that big a deal if they are weak, it is very much so for a player who expects to be productive posting up like hawes does...plus he's very young , the Dleague was made for guys like him.


Chad Ford had Hawes 4th a day or two ago but now he's dropped to 6th, so perhaps he isn't in anyone's top five right now.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/index

I absolutely disagree about the quality of draft classes evening out over time. Any way you cut it, the '00 draft was appauling and the '03 draft is still mindblowing. The analysts seem to be able to project the overall strength of a draft pretty well in advance. Even if they miss on a player or two, there are still 28 others to evaluate in the first round. You do make a good point about which players will declare but in a sense that might be pretty predictable also. It's very rare that a player like Noah stays in college. Usually all the top 5 or 7 players come out save maybe one.


----------



## JeremyB0001

theanimal23 said:


> Hypothetical question for you all:
> Say Gasol is on the market this offseason (meaning Grizz get the 3rd or 4th pick), we get the first pick, and Oden doesn't come out.
> 
> Do you trade Deng, and take Durant? I'm taking Durant no matter what, but would you guys trade Deng? This is a question aimed for the Pro Deng, Anti Gasol trade people. I'm curious to know what you guys would do.


I'm probably known as one of the more pro-Deng/anti-Gasol posters but I would do Deng for Gasol straight up regardless of what happens with the draft so that doesn't really impact my answer here. I think Durant can play the 2 or the 3 so I think you'd have a lot of options: 1) trade Deng and play Durant at the 2) trade Gordon and play Durant at the 2 3) if you're confident Gordon can handle the point, trade Kirk and play Durant at the 2 4) wait a year to make a move and play Durant 30 MPG off the bench at the 2, 3, and maybe a few minutes at the 4. As a Deng fan, I'd hesitate to move him but if that gets us Gasol then I do it. Moving Gordon might make the best sense because he and Durant are both shooters and replacing a two guard who's 6 feet tall with one who's 6-10 adds a lot of size. At the same time though, there's a good argument to be made that Hinrich is the least impressive player so you move him. I'd certainly want to gauge the trade value of the players and get input from the coaching staff before reaching any kind of conclusion.


----------



## JeremyB0001

DaBabyBullz said:


> In my opinion, if you get the #1, the pick has to be Durant, regardless of if Oden is there or not. Oden doesn't hold a candle to Durant IMO. I think in the scenario that we get Durant at #1, trading Deng for Gasol might very well be the best course of action to take. Deng and filler for Gasol. They're both pretty good sized and Durant has more of a perimeter game, and Deng has the inside game.


I think reasonable minds can differ about whether Durant or Oden will be the better pro but drafting Durant over Oden when you have a gaping hole at C and a log jam at SF seems pretty crazy to me. Oden is the best center to come out since Shaq, he is (was) the most hyped prospect since LeBron, he has an NBA ready body and defensive game, and has been largely dominant as a freshman despite the bad wrist and a system that doesn't feature him. There's pretty much no doubt in my mind that Oden will be a superstar. The worst case scenario is that you're drafting Olajuwon over Jordan and I think you have to be almost impossibly certain that that's the case to ignore your need and pass up a player who many NBA scouts think will be the more valuable pro. Also, as phenomenal as I think Durant will be I'd rather pair the (probable) 21 year old All-Star SF with the 19 year old superstar C than the 27 year old All-Star C with the 19 year old superstar SF.


----------



## Da Grinch

JeremyB0001 said:


> Chad Ford had Hawes 4th a day or two ago but now he's dropped to 6th, so perhaps he isn't in anyone's top five right now.
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/index
> 
> I absolutely disagree about the quality of draft classes evening out over time. Any way you cut it, the '00 draft was appauling and the '03 draft is still mindblowing. The analysts seem to be able to project the overall strength of a draft pretty well in advance. Even if they miss on a player or two, there are still 28 others to evaluate in the first round. You do make a good point about which players will declare but in a sense that might be pretty predictable also. It's very rare that a player like Noah stays in college. Usually all the top 5 or 7 players come out save maybe one.


i said drafts even out for _the most part _, 2000 was weak and still is , but now look at the 2001 draft , 2 years ago it was considered a weak draft , and now it isn't , the 2002 draft was considered very strong at 1 point (with yao and jaywill amongst others), and now it isn't, it seems very shortsighted to call a draft weak before it has even happened...it takes years to accurately evaluate a draft class especially with so many young euros and underclassemen.

also i believe Noah's stock shot up during the conf. tourney in the NCAA's I cant imagine people were dicussing him for #1 while renaldo balkman was outplaying him head to head during the SEC season, but after the reg. season his game flourished, no one was even asking if he planned to declare until the tourney , because it really didn't matter until then.

and players in general forgo the draft all the time or throw their names in unexpectedly, maybe not when is question of the top spot but lotto picks for certain , you have to search no further for proof of that than Noah's gator teammates brewer , and horford(and balkman was a guy no though of really as a viable nba player at least not last season until the NIT), teams make runs or they faulter , and how that player did plus their home situations and outside forces pulling them in different directions , on march 6th there is just no way of knowing , you can guess , but before you do think of tiago splitter who has pulled out for 3 straight years despite once being in that conversation for the top spot .


----------



## BULLHITTER

> I like Oden alot but Durant is one of the most incredible talents I've ever seen. He's only 18 years old man, players don't come around like him everyday.


another poster had the nerve to say durant could be "a greatest of all time"......after one season at texas! damn, doesn't take much to impress some people.....i guess cause i'm a lot older and have "seen" more players....my only response to the above would be, keep living......there's been great ones who've come and gone; i just hope the bull is in a position to get *either*.

i think both players are "can't miss", but in stating that, the best case scenario would be for the bull to have 2nd pick. that way, whichever player is left is the one you take and build with. 

i'd hate to be the gm in position to "miss" on the next big thing by taking the other guy at #1.:cheers:


----------



## step

> the best case scenario would be for the bull to have 2nd pick. that way, whichever player is left is the one you take and build with.


That is the biggest crock of **** ever. The best case scenario in a draft is always the first pick, so they can choose the best person, not the leftovers. 



> i'd hate to be the gm in position to "miss" on the next big thing by taking the other guy at #1


If a GM is that worried about making a mistake, he wouldn't be a GM for long no matter what.


----------



## The ROY

BULLHITTER said:


> another poster had the nerve to say durant could be "a greatest of all time"......after one season at texas! damn, doesn't take much to impress some people.....i guess cause i'm a lot older and have "seen" more players....my only response to the above would be, keep living......there's been great ones who've come and gone; i just hope the bull is in a position to get *either*.
> 
> LOL, oh please
> 
> there weren't many players in the HISTORY of college b-ball as Durant has been at the age of 18. I'm not just jumping on his bandwagon like the majority of the country, I knew about him since his Junior year and knew he'd be absolutely incredible SINCE then. Look me up, when I made draft threads about THIS year's draft last season, most people on this board had no CLUE who Durant was.
> 
> He'll be a 'great', no doubt about it.
> 
> If Durant had a more NBA READY body right now, he'd be the undisputed #1 pick.


----------



## Da Grinch

The ROY said:


> BULLHITTER said:
> 
> 
> 
> another poster had the nerve to say durant could be "a greatest of all time"......after one season at texas! damn, doesn't take much to impress some people.....i guess cause i'm a lot older and have "seen" more players....my only response to the above would be, keep living......there's been great ones who've come and gone; i just hope the bull is in a position to get *either*.
> 
> LOL, oh please
> 
> there weren't many players in the HISTORY of college b-ball as Durant has been at the age of 18. I'm not just jumping on his bandwagon like the majority of the country, I knew about him since his Junior year and knew he'd be absolutely incredible SINCE then. Look me up, when I made draft threads about THIS year's draft last season, most people on this board had no CLUE who Durant was.
> 
> He'll be a 'great', no doubt about it.
> 
> If Durant had a more NBA READY body right now, he'd be the undisputed #1 pick.
> 
> 
> 
> before I bestow greatness upon him , i have to see him win something ...anything.
> 
> until then to me he is a curiosity , with extrordinary talent .
> 
> i cant even put him with melo yet ...although he has done virtually everything possible up to date.
Click to expand...


----------



## charlietyra

Looks like a 80/20 chance that the Knicks beat the Sonics at home tonight and the Hornets and Nets lose tonight. Not good for our draft position.


----------



## yodurk

charlietyra said:


> Looks like a 80/20 chance that the Knicks beat the Sonics at home tonight and the Hornets and Nets lose tonight. Not good for our draft position.


Assuming the boxscores are accurate, Knicks lost by 1 to the Sonics. Marbury drew a foul with 0.9 seconds (almost scary how that parallels the Arenas game winner a few days ago), but he missed the 2nd free throw for the loss. He still scored 40 pts though. His resurgence has been nothing short of surprising, to say the least. It's his 3rd straight game over 30 pts, and 6th straight game over 20 pts.


----------



## The ROY

We move to 11th tonight..............

Jersey will lose tonight though...

I hope this loss starts a streak....I'm hoping to atleast get a 8-10 pick.


----------



## yodurk

The ROY said:


> We move to 11th tonight..............
> 
> Jersey will lose tonight though...
> 
> I hope this loss starts a streak....I'm hoping to atleast get a 8-10 pick.


Well, they play at Washington for their next game. I give them about a 0% chance of winning that game. The Wizards are back at full strength and playing great again. Not sure they have much chance at Toronto either.


----------



## JeremyB0001

Da Grinch said:


> i said drafts even out for _the most part _, 2000 was weak and still is , but now look at the 2001 draft , 2 years ago it was considered a weak draft , and now it isn't , the 2002 draft was considered very strong at 1 point (with yao and jaywill amongst others), and now it isn't, it seems very shortsighted to call a draft weak before it has even happened...it takes years to accurately evaluate a draft class especially with so many young euros and underclassemen.
> 
> also i believe Noah's stock shot up during the conf. tourney in the NCAA's I cant imagine people were dicussing him for #1 while renaldo balkman was outplaying him head to head during the SEC season, but after the reg. season his game flourished, no one was even asking if he planned to declare until the tourney , because it really didn't matter until then.
> 
> and players in general forgo the draft all the time or throw their names in unexpectedly, maybe not when is question of the top spot but lotto picks for certain , you have to search no further for proof of that than Noah's gator teammates brewer , and horford(and balkman was a guy no though of really as a viable nba player at least not last season until the NIT), teams make runs or they faulter , and how that player did plus their home situations and outside forces pulling them in different directions , on march 6th there is just no way of knowing , you can guess , but before you do think of tiago splitter who has pulled out for 3 straight years despite once being in that conversation for the top spot .


I agree that the few months before the draft people get a little too caught up with the hype and you need to take some things with a grain of salt, but people have been talking about the strength of this draft for a year and a half at this point. I also agree with you that whether or not a player comes out can be difficult to project in some instances. If you took the top ten picks projected picks and tried to guess who would come out and who wouldn't you'd make a fair amount of mistakes. My argument was more that the number of good players who enter the draft is pretty consistent from season to season. I'll bet that something like between 7 and 8 of the top ten projected players enter the draft most every year. Obviously if Durant or Oden stays in school that'd be a huge blow but I'm pretty skeptical that that will happen. I can't remember the last time before Noah that a top 2 or 3 prospect stayed in school and Oden and Durant are light years better than Noah.


----------



## fl_flash

Well, I'm gonna go ahead and declare "my guy" is the Chineese kid Yi. Obviously if the Knicks don't make the playoffs and the Bulls happen to get lucky again and get a top-3 pick I'd want Oden or Durant. I might even prefer Yi over Brendan Wright if they got #3. I like Yi's demeanor. He's got something of an edge to him. Not your typical Chineese player. He's got some swagger. I like that. He's not a center and he's really not a back-to-the-basket scorer, but he's a matchup nightmare. At 19 he's already got a pretty refined turn-around jumper. He finishes "with authority!" (thank you wayne larivee) in transition. If the Knicks have a little slide and the Bulls can get into that 7-9 range, Yi may well be there. (I'm hoping that guys like Noah, Horford and McRoberts have a dynamite tourney so that pushes Yi down some)

If the Knicks continue their win-one lose-one ways and either somehow make the playoffs or the pick isn't better than, say, #12 - my guy is Herbert Hill of Providence. I'm thinking I take this guy over McRoberts, Hansborough, Splitter, Fazekas or Gray. He's comming on strong to finish the season. Efficient scorer. Better than average rebounder. Excellent shot blocker. I believe he's a fifth-year senior so you'd hope theres the ability to come in and contribute fairly quickly. Pretty damned solid player.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1

I'm just not convinced about Yi. I like the way he can put the ball on the floor. Only a handful of 7 footers can do that.

He is just so skinny. I know he doesn't shy away from contact, but NBA 5s, 4's and even somee 3s would swat him around like a ragdoll. While he seems to have an ok midrange jumper, he doesn't look like he is any long range threat, so he won't be able to make himself room by drawing the bigs to the perimeter, like, say a Toni Kukoc did.

I know he's 19 and can put on SOME weight, but those skinny shoulders suggest to me he'll never be big and strong enough to bang as a PF, let alone a center, and while he has some ballhandling skills, I don't see him having enough versatility to really be an effective SF.


----------



## Soulful Sides

Sports Guy liveblogs the Celtics:



> 7:37 p.m. ET -- Time for tonight's pregame interview with Doc Rivers, or as I like to call the segment, "Dead Man Walking." I actually feel bad for Doc at this point -- for about three months, he's had the same look on his face that Antonella Barba's parents probably had when they Googled her last week.
> --
> 8:14 -- You know, it's strangely fun to watch Juwan Howard (an aging, undersized power forward) defend Ryan Gomes (an up-and-coming, undersized power forward). During breaks in the game, I wonder if he'll sidle over to Gomes and tell him, "Just keep playing hard, somebody is going to wildly overpay you in a few years, just be patient ..."
> 
> 8:16 -- Well, the Celts are losing by 18 and we don't have a single guy on the floor who's older than 22. This is the most relaxed I've felt during a Celtics game in two weeks. Let's pull my dad out of the stands and have him guard T-Mac for the second half to really bring this baby home.
> --
> 9:29 -- 9:29 -- The fourth quarter kicks off with a Sebastian Telfair cameo. It's like seeing Locke randomly appear out of nowhere on "Lost" this season. ... You don't even notice him anymore for a few minutes until you remember, "Wait, I thought he was supposed to be one of the stars of the show?" Just for my own sanity, let's look at Telfair's post All-Star splits compared to Brandon Roy, who was obtained by Portland with Boston's pick (No. 7) in the Telfair trade last summer:
> 
> • Roy: 7 games, 36.6 minutes, 16.6 points, 7.1 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 51.1 percent shooting.
> • Telfair: 6 games, 13.5 minutes, 3.5 points, 2.0 assists, 0.7 rebounds, 27.5 percent shooting.
> 
> (Note: These are the things that happen when you deal with a team that initiates trade talks by sending you a DVD of "Through the Fire" with a note that says, "PLAY ME.")
> --
> 9:56 -- Our final score: Houston 111, Boston 80. In other words ... mission accomplished. We're back on track, baby!


----------



## The ROY

> • Roy: 7 games, 36.6 minutes, 16.6 points, 7.1 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 51.1 percent shooting.
> • Telfair: 6 games, 13.5 minutes, 3.5 points, 2.0 assists, 0.7 rebounds, 27.5 percent shooting.


WOW lol, he shoulda been ashamed of himself when he made the deal but now? Geez, Boston could be in much better shape.

G 
G Roy
F Pierce
F Jefferson
C


----------



## The ROY

The east is just INCLINED to give NY a playoff spot.

NJ gets murdered tonight and we beat Orlando last night (which i'm not mad about).


----------



## The ROY

SMH

NJ plays San ANtonio today, automatic loss

Milwaukee play Cleveland, automatic loss

Philly is at indiana, Philly's on a 5 game winning streak, if they pull this one off, I think Indiana will be only a half game in the 8th spot.

NY plays washington at home, HOPING that's a loss


----------



## rosenthall

The more I think about our pick, the more I think it's a case of "found money" vs "future annuities."

The big guys who look like they'll be available at our pick can more or less be grouped into the two categories.

Found money: Aaron Gray, Tiago Splitter, Tyler Hansborough, Josh McRoberts, Nick Fazekas, Herbert Hill, Alexander Johnson
Future annuities: Hasheem Thabeet, Yi, Ante Tomic, Vitor Tatsch, Alexis Ajinca, etc.

The question of which one to go with I think is a matter of how good you think this team is right now, and how much of shot they have to win the title.

If you think this team is just a sweet whisper away from being legit contenders, I think you go with the "found money" guys, and let them give the team a quick jolt for the next 3 years while we have Ben Wallace under contract.

If you think this team doesn't have what it takes to push through to the next level, I think it makes more sense to take a "future annuities" kind of guy with the intention that, even though we won't get consistent production out of him until year 3, he'll be able to begin to peak when Kirk, Ben, Luol, and possibly Tyrus are at or approaching the summits of their careers.

I'm leaning towards the "future annuities" guys.


----------



## theanimal23

I'm liking where things COULD go, but seriously anything can happen for better or worse. Philly is on a roll. I'm rooting for any team but Boston and Memphis since no one can out "win" them for lotto balls. We need teams such as Philly, GSW, Seattle, and Minny to perform better than NYK. Charlotte is losing to Memphis tonight, which sucks. I will be content with moving up to the 8th pick or so. That would be huge, and at least on ESPN lotto, I've had the Sixers (who I hope pass the Knicks) win Oden a few times.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Who do we want to lose? The Wiz or the Knicks? They're in a dogfight tonight with 2 minutes left. Right now Wiz by 3. Stay tuned.


----------



## ChiBron

Francis wins it!!


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

I'm not sure it wasn't for our benefit, but still I was disappointed when Steve Francis just hit a game winning three at the buzzer to beat the Wiz by one. We're now a half game away from the Wiz, but the Knicks just moved into a tie for eight place in the East.

Somehow I don't like that at all.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Hibbert is really starting to put it together as an offensive player. He's 6-7 against Pitt for 12 of GTown's first 30 points. Being that he's 7' 2" and he's showing a pulse, I doubt he's going to be available where we're picking.


----------



## Da Grinch

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Hibbert is really starting to put it together as an offensive player. He's 6-7 against Pitt for 12 of GTown's first 30 points. Being that he's 7' 2" and he's showing a pulse, I doubt he's going to be available where we're picking.



he's 7-8 now at the half for 14 .

i doubt he is declaring , Georgetown just has a strong track record of 4 year guys , except for AI of course but he was actually a hardship case of which there are really very few.


----------



## rosenthall

The Knicks have to be one of the best performing teams in close games this season. Their knack for winning nailbiters has been impressive this season. They sort of remind me of a watered version of our 03-04 team.

As far as I can tell, they're playing the best basketball of any team within 3 games of them +/-, so the prospects of our pick getting better and not worse seem below average. 

Bleh.


----------



## ScottMay

Darius Miles Davis said:


> but the Knicks just moved into a tie for eight place in the East.


Not really a tie -- the Knicks have already clinched the season tie-breaker vs. Orlando, so they technically have sole possession of eighth place. 

With New Jersey and Indiana in freefalls, the Knicks's playoff chances are looking awfully good. I mean, they might only win 35 games, but if they're in the playoffs, we're out of the lottery.


----------



## theanimal23

Things are looking good

We have to hope for NJ to make a run with RJeff back, and Philly to continue their trend.


----------



## yodurk

rosenthall said:


> The Knicks have to be one of the best performing teams in close games this season. Their knack for winning nailbiters has been impressive this season. They sort of remind me of a watered version of our 03-04 team.
> 
> As far as I can tell, they're playing the best basketball of any team within 3 games of them +/-, so the prospects of our pick getting better and not worse seem below average.
> 
> Bleh.


I'm flabbergasted that they managed to win in Washington considering the state of their team. And I'm even more amazed that a game-winning 3 ball came from Steve Francis of all people. This team's ability to consistently win these 1 possession games, with different guys making the big shots, is really unbelievable (and terribly frustrating as a Bulls fan).

Before tonight's game, their remaining schedule is the 2nd toughest in the league. I'm not even sure what to think of that anymore. The thought of them in the playoffs has me nauseous.


----------



## Babble-On

I think some type of bad karma has infected the fate of this pick. Everything that could go wrong with it has.

Pretty much every team that would have been at about the same level as or slightly better than NY has been hurt by injuries. NJ, Boston, NOK, Golden State, Milwaukee, Seattle, Memphis(who I actually think would've had a record that was more than a lil' better than NY's has Gasol not been injured to start the year).

What makes this worse is the fact that indications imo seem to be that Paxson put pretty much all his hopes of getting a long term player to fill the team's big man needs on this pick.


----------



## SALO

Babble-On said:


> I think some type of bad karma has infected the fate of this pick. Everything that could go wrong with it has.
> 
> Pretty much every team that would have been at about the same level as or slightly better than NY has been hurt by injuries. NJ, Boston, NOK, Golden State, Milwaukee, Seattle, Memphis(who I actually think would've had a record that was more than a lil' better than NY's has Gasol not been injured to start the year).


We can pretty much thank Larry Brown for last year's pick. There's no doubt in my mind had he stayed to coach them we'd still be in the running for a top 5 pick this year. 



> What makes this worse is the fact that indications imo seem to be that Paxson put pretty much all his hopes of getting a long term player to fill the team's big man needs on this pick.


I agree. He kept mentioning the Knicks pick as a means of getting another big, and the way he was talking about it was like he was expecting the Knicks to just hand us another high draft pick... like it was already in the bag. The way it looks now, it seems like both Detroit (via Orlando) & Phoenix (via Atlanta) could have better draft positions than us in June, and those two teams are already two of the best in the league.


----------



## DaBullz

Eastern Conference <table class="yspwhitebg" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="ysptblthbody1"> <td colspan="2" class="yspdetailttl" height="18"> Team</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" align="right">GB </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1"> <td height="18"> 1.</td> <td> * Detroit</td> <td align="right">-- </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2"> <td height="18"> 2.</td> <td> Cleveland</td> <td align="right">2.0 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1"> <td height="18"> 3.</td> <td> * Toronto</td> <td align="right">6.0 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2"> <td height="18"> 4.</td> <td> Chicago</td> <td align="right">4.0 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1"> <td height="18"> 5.</td> <td> * Washington</td> <td align="right">4.5 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2"> <td height="18"> 6.</td> <td> Miami</td> <td align="right">6.5 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1"> <td height="18"> 7.</td> <td> Indiana</td> <td align="right">9.5 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2"> <td height="18">* 8.*</td> <td>* New York*</td> <td align="right">10.5</td></tr></tbody></table>


----------



## theanimal23

SALO said:


> We can pretty much thank Larry Brown for last year's pick. There's no doubt in my mind had he stayed to coach them we'd still be in the running for a top 5 pick this year.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. He kept mentioning the Knicks pick as a means of getting another big, and the way he was talking about it was like he was expecting the Knicks to just hand us another high draft pick... like it was already in the bag. The way it looks now, it seems like both Detroit (via Orlando) & Phoenix (via Atlanta) could have better draft positions than us in June, and those two teams are already two of the best in the league.


I think Atlanta and Orlando keep the pick if it's top 3. But, the scary thing is, imagine if Orlando keeps sliding, and they somehow end up with 1 or 2. You get Durant/Oden to put next to D12 and Nelson, and go get Vince in Free Agency. If they somehow win the lottery for a 3rd time, I might as well give up on the Bulls. No team would be able to beat an Oden/Howard Frontcourt. 

Seriously, Howard + Oden/Durant. You are talking about a possible dynasty there.

I feel bad for Atlanta, and while it would be best that Durant/Oden end out West for us, but they are a team that deserves to have the first pick and get Oden. They could go out and offer Max Money toward Billups.

I say we trade our pick for next year's and a Vet. I don't want to have to choose a big man if there isn't one to our liking.


----------



## Rhyder

This was a tough game to root for. My initial reaction was "@#$% the Knicks won." My second reaction was "thank you, the wizards lost." Win now or win later?


----------



## MikeDC

That was the best game Francis has had in about 6 years. :|


----------



## yodurk

Rhyder said:


> This was a tough game to root for. My initial reaction was "@#$% the Knicks won." My second reaction was "thank you, the wizards lost." Win now or win later?


Knicks losing is the greater good, IMO. 

I'm not overly worried about our playoff position so long as we're in the top 5 or 6 seeds (looking very likely). To do anything meaningful in the playoffs, we'll have to beat those top teams irregardless. 

The Knicks' position directly ties into our long-term hopes though. We really could use a good player from this draft.


----------



## such sweet thunder

It's time to give Isiah some cred. The team is playing balls-to-the-wall in an effort to save his job. Compare that with Mike Fratello and Terry Stotts and Doc Rivers and all the rest of the teams where the players almost look like they're trying to get their coach fired.


----------



## kulaz3000

Im not sure if anyone else saw the replay of the Francis shot at the buzzer, but didn't he shuffle his feet?? It was a definite travel in my eyes...


----------



## Pain5155

MikeDC said:


> That was the best game Francis has had in about 6 years. :|


:rofl2:


----------



## ScottMay

The Knicks are going to extend Isiah's contract as coach and GM later today:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03122007/sports/knicks/knicks_bring_back_thomas_knicks_marc_berman.htm

In the short term, I'd say this improves their odds of making the playoffs. In the long term, unless Dolan is perpetually going to block him from making trades, it's probably good for the Bulls. 

It all just hammers home once more how egregiously Larry Brown sabotaged the Knicks last year.


----------



## The ROY

This freefall Indiana, Orlando & New Jersey are doing is ridiculous.

It looks as if Indiana can't win without J.O., Orlando was playing above their heads (LIKE I SAID EARLY THIS SEASON) & New Jersey doesn't care much anymore. Hopefully Richard Jefferson comes back in the next game and they go on a streak.

If the season ended today, we'd pick 15th.

Funny thing is, The pistons have Orlando's pick.........which is currently 14th! lol


----------



## rosenthall

The ROY said:


> This freefall Indiana, Orlando & New Jersey are doing is ridiculous.
> 
> It looks as if Indiana can't win without J.O., Orlando was playing above their heads (LIKE I SAID EARLY THIS SEASON) & New Jersey doesn't care much anymore. Hopefully Richard Jefferson comes back in the next game and they go on a streak.
> 
> If the season ended today, we'd pick 15th.
> 
> Funny thing is, The pistons have Orlando's pick.........which is currently 14th! lol


The circumstances surrounding the Knicks pick seem to be getting worse by the day. Not only is every single eastern conference team competing with them for a playof spot freefalling into a season destroying tail spin, EVERY SINGLE TEAM within 2-3 games of them in either direction is playing badly as well.


----------



## MikeDC

rosenthall said:


> If you think this team is just a sweet whisper away from being legit contenders, I think you go with the "found money" guys, and let them give the team a quick jolt for the next 3 years while we have Ben Wallace under contract.
> 
> If you think this team doesn't have what it takes to push through to the next level, I think it makes more sense to take a "future annuities" kind of guy with the intention that, even though we won't get consistent production out of him until year 3, he'll be able to begin to peak when Kirk, Ben, Luol, and possibly Tyrus are at or approaching the summits of their careers.
> 
> I'm leaning towards the "future annuities" guys.


I can't remember if I posted this or not, but in looking at the list you made up the other day, it doesn't look like many bigs at all, even guys with more experience but less upside, are capable of giving a quick jolt.

If we go for a guy like that, it seems likely we won't get what we need in the short-term or a the long-term, so I think the only way to look at the pick is to look at the guy we think will be the best, period. If we want an immediate impact, we probably shouldn't look for a big at all.


----------



## rosenthall

ScottMay said:


> The Knicks are going to extend Isiah's contract as coach and GM later today:
> 
> http://www.nypost.com/seven/03122007/sports/knicks/knicks_bring_back_thomas_knicks_marc_berman.htm
> 
> In the short term, I'd say this improves their odds of making the playoffs. In the long term, unless Dolan is perpetually going to block him from making trades, it's probably good for the Bulls.
> 
> It all just hammers home once more how egregiously Larry Brown sabotaged the Knicks last year.


I agree with these statements. Signing Isiah should give the team a shot in the arm in the short run, since their karma seems to be at an all time high right now (and I must admit, he seems to have done an outstanding coaching job this year), but every single basketball related administrative endeavor Isiah has attempted since his playing days has been a failure, and his tenure with the team until this season was heading down the same road.

I think the Knicks, with their collective backs against the wall and a chip on their shoulder from the embarrassment of last season, felt like they had a lot to prove this year, especially with the pick swap dynamic. However, I'm not terribly optimistic about their options for continual growth. Even with James Dolan's newfound fiscal responsibility, the team still looks to be capped out for the foreseeable future, and I'm not sure their young talent is good enough to propel them much higher than where they are right now.

And when you take away the external locus of control that they could all unite around after this season, I don't think the mental fortitude of many of the members of the team and the abrasive NY media will provide a good mix for sustained excellence, especially when much of their success has been by the skin of their teeth, and such luck may run out by next season.

Unfortunately, after this season the fortunes of the Knicks will be of trivial importance, aside from our W-L record from our encounters with them and whether or not they rank ahead of us in the standings.


----------



## The ROY

I'm pretty sure we could take our pick plus our two 2nd rounders and move up a couple spots. Overall, I'm happy it's almost over. We won't need to discuss NY on this board next year, that's worth a couple spots alone.

It'll be funny if we face them in the playoffs though.

NY's next five :

@ Toronto
Vs. New Orleans
Vs. Toronto
Vs. Dallas
Vs. Portland
@ Cleveland


----------



## rosenthall

MikeDC said:


> I can't remember if I posted this or not, but in looking at the list you made up the other day, it doesn't look like many bigs at all, even guys with more experience but less upside, are capable of giving a quick jolt.
> 
> If we go for a guy like that, it seems likely we won't get what we need in the short-term or a the long-term, so I think the only way to look at the pick is to look at the guy we think will be the best, period. If we want an immediate impact, we probably shouldn't look for a big at all.


You are correct that not too many guys from the list I put together gave much of a quick jolt, which was the gist of the point I was trying to make. 

The post you quoted was made more in response to the "Fazekas, Hansborough" thread and some of the sentiments that drafting a guy like Tyler Hansborough would be a good choice because he could step right in and contribute, even if it's at a pretty marginal level.

So, I said I was leaning towards the "future annuities" guys because I figured someone from that group would end up being the best player, period. Since any guy whose been demonstrably good enough to give us a quick jolt right off the bat will more than likely be gone by the time we pick. So getting the guy who will be the best in the long run will probably necessitate taking a guy whose perceived NBA production will be much less than his real NBA production, for whatever reason (ie, we'll have to scoop up some guy whose stock is at a low).


----------



## theanimal23

Seriously, I would look to do this: If a guy like Thad Young, Jeff Green, or another top notch SF falls into our laps, and is the BPA, I take him to back up Deng. I don't know what Noce's value will be in FA as he is a RFA. He would be difficult to trade, but if we fill the PF spot with a solid player, then I would move Noce. I absolutely love Noce, but you don't pick a PF @ the pick for the sake of getting one. You go for the BPA. 

You go for filling your roster with late 1st round picks if you are a contending team. If we want, get Philly's late 1st rounder, or Phx's etc to grab a big man for the sake of grabbing one.

Otherwise, trade next year's along with this years to move up and grab Horford/Hawes/Lopez, etc. Our pick won't be of great value next year anyway.


----------



## McBulls

Regardless of where the Knicks pick is, this is likely to be the last year the Bulls get a top 20 pick in the 1st round for some time.

I think it makes sense to trade up into the top 10 to get a young big. The Bulls just don't need any more SFs or guards, unless they are superstars. They also don't need the Bagaric-like stiffs that go late in the first round. Might as well use one of the second rounders this year or next to get one of those.

The Bulls should trade 3 of the 4 2007-8 second rounders, the 2007&8 1st rounders and Khryapa for a top 10 pick this year. Improvements after this year should come primarily through free agency and trades. Crowding the bench with late first round picks is a waste of good wood.

Man, the Chandler trade looks really bad right now.


----------



## MikeDC

rosenthall said:


> You are correct that not too many guys from the list I put together gave much of a quick jolt, which was the gist of the point I was trying to make.
> 
> The post you quoted was made more in response to the "Fazekas, Hansborough" thread and some of the sentiments that drafting a guy like Tyler Hansborough would be a good choice because he could step right in and contribute, even if it's at a pretty marginal level.
> 
> So, I said I was leaning towards the "future annuities" guys because I figured someone from that group would end up being the best player, period. Since any guy whose been demonstrably good enough to give us a quick jolt right off the bat will more than likely be gone by the time we pick. So getting the guy who will be the best in the long run will probably necessitate taking a guy whose perceived NBA production will be much less than his real NBA production, for whatever reason (ie, we'll have to scoop up some guy whose stock is at a low).


I can live with that. We can add a marginal guy in any number of ways, I'd imagine. There aren't that many ways to get high-quality guys.


----------



## JeremyB0001

theanimal23 said:


> Seriously, I would look to do this: If a guy like Thad Young, Jeff Green, or another top notch SF falls into our laps, and is the BPA, I take him to back up Deng. I don't know what Noce's value will be in FA as he is a RFA. He would be difficult to trade, but if we fill the PF spot with a solid player, then I would move Noce. I absolutely love Noce, but you don't pick a PF @ the pick for the sake of getting one. You go for the BPA.
> 
> You go for filling your roster with late 1st round picks if you are a contending team. If we want, get Philly's late 1st rounder, or Phx's etc to grab a big man for the sake of grabbing one.
> 
> Otherwise, trade next year's along with this years to move up and grab Horford/Hawes/Lopez, etc. Our pick won't be of great value next year anyway.


I'm a big proponent of trading up but the farther the pick slips the more difficult that becomes. Before I was thinking it might not be terribly hard to move up to say 7 from 11. Moving up to 10 from 15 is probably much less valuable unless we find a guy that we love who winds up right there. It looks probable that all the blue chip C/PF players (Horford, Hawes, Lopez) will be gone by the 10th pick. We can't trade this years pick and next years pick under the CBA so we'd have to dangle our '09 pick or Thabo. 

The more I think about it I don't think I have a problem drafting solely by need if we stay where we're at. That goes against conventional wisdom but I'm not sure we'd be passing up any great players by doing so. If someone like Green, Thorton, Young, or Budinger drops - and at least one guy usually does - then you have a difficult decision on your hands. Otherwise though, our frontcourt is so terrible right now that I don't see how we wouldn't be improving if we just took Hibbert or McRoberts with our first pick and then tried to move a second rounder to grab a late first rounder we could use to draft Splitter.


----------



## The ROY

If Hibbert has a strong tournament showing, he'll go higher than his projected 9-12 range.

Aaron Grey and Tyler Hansborogh are about the best we're gonna get when it comes to big's. If we're LUCKY, Tiago SPlitter will fall. He'd be a wonderful addition to the Bulls, now and later.

C Splitter
F Thomas
F Deng
G Gordon
G Hinrich

= future dynasty


----------



## JeremyB0001

The ROY said:


> If Hibbert has a strong tournament showing, he'll go higher than his projected 9-12 range.
> 
> Aaron Grey and Tyler Hansborogh are about the best we're gonna get when it comes to big's. If we're LUCKY, Tiago SPlitter will fall. He'd be a wonderful addition to the Bulls, now and later.


As of today, Chad Ford has Hibbert 16 and Splitter 28 on his big board (projections of where players will be drafted based on his conversations with NBA scouts and front offices). Splitter's stock has apparently plummeted and he has a lot of ground to make up just to be considered anything other than a reach where we'll be drafting. It wouldn't shock me if Hibbert lands in the lottery but unless a lot of player stay in school the math suggests that at least one decent big man is on the board when we pick.

Also, FWIW, Ford has Hansbrough at 31 and Gray at 41 so neither would be in the mix with our first rounder as of right now.


----------



## theanimal23

Jeremy, you gotta go BPA at our pick, especially if a serious talent drops. One player always drops somehow, and you gotta take him if he is there. You offer next year's first rounder or something to move up and grab Splitter if he drops.


----------



## Babble-On

This is it, the Knicks are gonna be my new avatar. Whoever is my avatar seems to play like crap.


----------



## ScottMay

This may be premature, but I'm thinking that Orlando is pretty much done. They played without any fire tonight against a dreadful (14-17 at home) Charlotte team. 

The good news is that the Nets finally put together a decent performance. True, it came at the expense of the Grizzlies, but sheesh, anything to stop the bleeding at this point.

I think the Sixers and Hawks are probably going to push the Knicks more than the Pacers and Magic are.


----------



## JeremyB0001

theanimal23 said:


> Jeremy, you gotta go BPA at our pick, especially if a serious talent drops. One player always drops somehow, and you gotta take him if he is there. You offer next year's first rounder or something to move up and grab Splitter if he drops.


Yeah, if one of the more heralded wings drops, it's pretty dangerous to pass on them. I'm all about getting a late first rounder to use on Splitter. Phoenix has three first rounders and has found one to be too many in past seasons so they're a good target.


----------



## LegoHat

From SI.com: Big Baby: 'Leaning toward going pro'



> NEW YORK -- LSU junior forward Glen Davis told SI.com on Tuesday he is "leaning toward turning pro," but -- contrary to earlier reports from a source close to the team -- has not yet officially decided to enter the NBA Draft.
> 
> "I'm collecting the facts this weekend to make sure the situation is good enough to enter the Draft," Davis said. "If I like what I hear, I'm going pro, but the option of coming back to school for my senior year is still open."
> 
> Davis said he tentatively plans to make his announcement on March 21 in Baton Rouge. While he has not settled on an agent, a source told SI.com that Houston-based representative John Hamilton of Performance Sports Management was the most likely candidate. The 6-foot-9, 295-pound Davis is currently projected as a second-round pick by DraftExpress.com and NBAdraft.net.
> 
> The "Big Baby," as Davis is known, helped lead LSU to the Final Four in 2005-06 and won SEC Player of the Year honors that season. He battled a myriad injuries in his junior year as the Tigers struggled, finishing 17-15 (5-11 SEC) and being left out of both the NCAA tournament and NIT fields.


He lost a lot of weight before this season, but it doesn't to seem to have made him improve as much as you could hope for. At 6'8-6'9, he is probably not the player we need right now, but he does move remarkably well for a player his size.


----------



## jnrjr79

LegoHat said:


> From SI.com: Big Baby: 'Leaning toward going pro'
> 
> 
> 
> He lost a lot of weight before this season, but it doesn't to seem to have made him improve as much as you could hope for. At 6'8-6'9, he is probably not the player we need right now, but he does move remarkably well for a player his size.


If he's just a second round pick, I don't see a problem with letting Sweets go and taking a flier on him.


----------



## Soulful Sides

jnrjr79 said:


> If he's just a second round pick, I don't see a problem with letting Sweets go and taking a flier on him.



Great, I'll let Paxson know.

He values your opinion.


----------



## The ROY

Big Baby's only 6"8....we don't need more fat kids on the team..


----------



## SALO

I like Big Baby's game and would probably pick him towards the end of the 1st round. I'd definitely take him with one of our 2nd rounders, but I doubt he'll last that long. 

He could take Sweetney's roster spot, and it gives Tyrus someone else to talk to in case PJ retires or signs with someone else. I think having Tyrus & Big Baby on the same team would be fun.


----------



## Soulful Sides

> Having already missed seven games with a lower right leg injury, Knicks forward David Lee will be out at least a couple of more weeks, according to Knicks vice president of public relations, Jonathan Sopronawitz.
> 
> On Monday, Lee traveled from New York to Indianapolis to obtain a second opinion on his leg that has already cost him nearly three weeks of action.
> 
> While Lee originally was diagnosed with a high right ankle sprain, doctors in Indianapolis classified it as a "stress reaction," which, according to Sopranowitz, is similar to a bone bruise.


espn.com


----------



## step

> If he's just a second round pick, I don't see a problem with letting Sweets go and taking a flier on him.


Nor do I.



> Having already missed seven games with a lower right leg injury, Knicks forward David Lee will be out at least a couple of more weeks


That sucks.


----------



## The ROY

Don't mean to wish him bad or anything, but um..that should be a good thing for us.


----------



## King Joseus

The ROY said:


> Don't mean to wish him bad or anything, but um..that should be a good thing for us.


Good for us, bad for my fantasy team. If it's only two more weeks, I can hold on to him and hope he gives me a boost in the playoffs. But if he doesn't come back, I'm just wasting a roster spot. 

*sigh*

Decisions, decisions...


----------



## step

The ROY said:


> Don't mean to wish him bad or anything, but um..that should be a good thing for us.


Well his downtime hasn't seem to have had any effect at all so far.
He is my favourite player on the Knicks, really don't want to see him suffer at all.


----------



## McBulls

step said:


> Well his downtime hasn't seem to have had any effect at all so far.
> He is my favourite player on the Knicks, really don't want to see him suffer at all.


He's my favorite Knick too, so I don't want to see him suffer either.

Lee needs a nice long rest until the end of the regular season.


----------



## DaBullz

Soulful Sides said:


> espn.com


Francis was out for the rest of the season, too, no? Didn't he hit a game winner last game or game before?
:biggrin:


----------



## rwj333

DaBullz said:


> Francis was out for the rest of the season, too, no? Didn't he hit a game winner last game or game before?
> :biggrin:


The difference is that Francis was faking an injury because he was insulted about not receiving playing time.


----------



## The ROY

With Indiana & NY tied for 8th and Jersey in 7th now (they WILL go on a run), we're back at 14th in the lotto 

Hopefully J.O. comes back soon. I think all hope is lost for Orlando.


----------



## rosenthall

rwj333 said:


> The difference is that Francis was faking an injury because he was insulted about not receiving playing time.


Wow, is that true?


----------



## rosenthall

The ROY said:


> With Indiana & NY tied for 8th and Jersey in 7th now (they WILL go on a run), we're back at 14th in the lotto
> 
> Hopefully J.O. comes back soon. I think all hope is lost for Orlando.


I have mixed feelings about Orlando's recent implosion. It greatly increases the Knicks' chances of getting in the playoffs this season, but on the other hand, it has improved my bbb.net experience significantly over the last 2 months, because I don't have to be subjected to the clan of 5-6 posters on this site who systematically hijack every thread on this website that is Magic-related and attempt to turn it into a Dwight Howard lovefest. Their pedagogy on the mastery of Dwight Howard has gone curiously silent as of late.


----------



## Wynn

rosenthall said:


> I have mixed feelings about Orlando's recent implosion. It greatly increases the Knicks' chances of getting in the playoffs this season, but on the other hand, it has improved my bbb.net experience significantly over the last 2 months, because I don't have to be subjected to the clan of 5-6 posters on this site who systematically hijack every thread on this website that is Magic-related and attempt to turn it into a Dwight Howard lovefest. Their pedagogy on the mastery of Dwight Howard has gone curiously silent as of late.


I completely understand your position. Problem is that with the Magics and the Pacer both in free-fall, the Knick looks like it may wind up being the 8th seed out of the east. Difference is likely one spot in the draft, but also means no lotto balls at all for the Bull. All I can say is "Go Magics!", or "Go Pacer!", cause it looks like everyone else in the East is done for the year....


----------



## BG7

Seeing that we'll be probably picking 12-16 area, I think we might have to skip out on a bigman. I think we desperately need a third guard.

Tucker or Bellinelli would be my picks.

Then I think we need to use Chris Duhon, the 2008 pick, and Cash (pony up Jerry) to get two first round picks in the 20's, and go after bigs, Glen Davis, Tiago Splitter, and Hasheem Thabeet in particular.

Then develop Thabo as a wing, more so than a combo guard, and trade Nocioni as the principles for a sign and trade for Darko.


----------



## yodurk

McBulls said:


> He's my favorite Knick too, so I don't want to see him suffer either.
> 
> Lee needs a nice long rest until the end of the regular season.


I personally dislike Lee, solely because he's lifted the Knicks to their improved state.

The staggering thing is that they continue to play well despite him and Crawford both being out. Seriously, what will it take for them to fall apart? It's not like Curry is setting the world on fire lately (only Marbury is).


----------



## rosenthall

All in all, I'd say tonight was a good night for Bulls fans. We win by the skin of our teeth, the Raps close out NY, and the Magic temporarily waken from their slumber to uplift themselves over the Jazz.

It would have been preferable if some of the Knicks' lotto-bound contemporaries would have eeked out a victory, but I suppose beggers can't be choosy.

And the Pacers still find themselves inexplicably in the playoffs even though they just got their lunch handed to them for the 11th straight time.

Does anyone know when Jermaine O'neal is coming back?


----------



## SALO

Jermaine O'Neal came back tonight. They still got blown out by the Wizards.


----------



## The ROY

After tonight's loss by NY, we have the 12th pick 

If New Jersey, Orlando & Indiana pick it up, we'll get a lotto ick


----------



## rosenthall

SALO said:


> Jermaine O'Neal came back tonight. They still got blown out by the Wizards.


Yeah, I saw that. And even though they got thumped pretty good tonight, I'd say that's definitely good news for us. If I'm not mistaken, their dive coincided with him getting injured, no?


----------



## Wynn

The ROY said:


> After tonight's loss by NY, we have the 12th pick
> 
> If New Jersey, Orlando & Indiana pick it up, we'll get a lotto ick


To me New Jersey is irrelevant. I think Jersey makes the playoffs no matter what. I think it's New York, Indiana, and Orlando in a three-way fight for the eighth seed. It looks like it'll be a case of whoever doesn't want it the least. Unfortunately, NY has absolutely no incentive to get into the Lottery...


----------



## taurus515th

I think Paxson will b looking 2 trade that pick for a post-player instead of drafting 1.


----------



## The ROY

taurus515th said:


> I think Paxson will b looking 2 trade that pick for a post-player instead of drafting 1.


With all the mediocre options we've come up with, I'd much rather have Tiago Splitter.


----------



## The ROY

Wynn said:


> To me New Jersey is irrelevant. I think Jersey makes the playoffs no matter what. I think it's New York, Indiana, and Orlando in a three-way fight for the eighth seed. It looks like it'll be a case of whoever doesn't want it the least. Unfortunately, NY has absolutely no incentive to get into the Lottery...


I think if J.O. hasn't given up on Indiana, they can push NY out. And although Orlando has been playing badly, they have no reason to give up either with their pick going to Detriot.


----------



## Cyanobacteria

yodurk said:


> I personally dislike Lee, solely because he's lifted the Knicks to their improved state.
> 
> The staggering thing is that they continue to play well despite him and Crawford both being out. Seriously, what will it take for them to fall apart? It's not like Curry is setting the world on fire lately (only Marbury is).



I am unclear on this consept of a 'favorite Knick.' I suppose if one particular Knick were to cost his team a victory I would dislike that particular Knick less than the others for a few minutes. Does that count? I would hate to discriminate against the other Knicks by hating one particular Knick less than the others though, because I have long since learned that discrimination is wrong. So I think I'll just go on hating all of the Knicks equally so as not to cause any of them to feel they are being treated unfairly.


----------



## The ROY

Alright..coming up for our NY pick hopes :

Today : Miami @ New Jersey - ehh, I think Miami will take this but no need to worry, Jersey will get the 7th seed. RJ, Kidd & Carter won't let us down. Plus I'm sure Carter & Kidd would love to showcase themselves since they COULD potentially be traded this offseason. Regardless, they are vets, they know how to get it done.

Tomorrow : New Orleans @ NY - This one could go either way. The Hornets are playing like garbage right now and NY's at home, I dunno, I think NY takes it. I don't think the Hornets believe they can make the playoffs but they still may be trying.

Saturday : Sacramento @ Orlando - I see Orlando taking this, Dwight will have a monster game vs. Sac's frontcourt.

Atlanta @ Indiana - No way J.O. let's them lose this one.

At the end of the day, I think Orlando or Indiana gets the 8th seed. I'd much rather see Orlando in the playoffs personally.


----------



## theanimal23

McRoberts hits a hook from like 10' out


----------



## The ROY

22pts & 11rebs for McRoberts but honestly, he probably needs to stay in school another year. Atleast if this WAS his last college game, he more than likely raised his stock a bit but he's still SOFT as cotton.


----------



## TripleDouble

Knicks blow an 18 point lead and lose to the Hornets.


----------



## LegoHat

From DraftExpress: Splitter Returning to Form



> Player of the Week: Tiago Splitter
> 
> Its official: Tiago Splitter is back. After playing in pain for months, he once again looks like the same old intense, aggressive and active player we always knew. It’s a completely different feeling from what he transmitted just a few weeks ago. His quickness, athletic reactivity, the way he chases after rebounds, his renewed confidence looking for the basket… his body language speaks for itself.
> 
> It didn’t make sense. It wasn’t logical that a guy who had always been distinguished by his intensity and activity on court, a hard-working player such as Splitter, suddenly looked so passive and soft. As we have told you here a few times, it was almost certainly a matter of the back problems that apparently seem resolved now.
> 
> -----
> 
> *Offensively, Tiago was very active in the low post, trying to score in one-on-one situations, although with mixed results. He was called for travelling twice and committed an offensive foul, although they were all nice post moves. On the other hand, he forced fouls himself, delivered some solid passes out of the low post whenever he was double teamed, and also displayed a very nice finish extending his right arm under Daniel Santiago’s left to release a layup.*


From the same article, about Yi Jianlian:



> Yi Jianlian completed the CBA quarterfinal series with another superb stat-line: 32 points, 17 rebounds and 3 blocks. Indeed Guangdong has swept Shangai (3-0) following Yi’s impressive production, with averages of 30 points (67% from the field), 14 rebounds and 2.7 blocks. Truly Yao Ming-esque numbers. It’s interesting to note that, while Yi built his scoring effort with mid-range jumpers in the first game, he stuck to dunks and layups in this third act, finally taking full advantage of Shangai’s weak inside game. Actually, he only shot one jump-shot, and it went in. Instead, he looked for his points in the low post (where his unpolished footwork was exposed once again), cleaning the offensive glass (he grabbed 5 offensive boards), in transition plays or moving without the ball to find open looks under the hoop. On defense, he didn’t put in much effort, lacking focus and intensity.


----------



## THEbigO

im watching michigan st. vs. north carolina. and i have decided that tyler hansborough is good. what does everyone think about his game transferring to the nba. he is very strong. can score in the low post and rebounds well. i really like the guy based on what iv seen in the past few games from him.


----------



## ScottMay

Indiana snaps their 11-game losing streak. 

Orlando gets roughed up at home by a Sacramento team that was 11-23 on the road. Hedo Turkoglu, who is stealthily kind of a key guy for the Magic, only played 9 minutes. Not sure what happened there.

Don't teams want to make the playoffs? A 7 and 8 seed are up for grabs and no one seems to want it. Hell, there aren't any invincibles in the East -- sneak in and you could win a round or two!


----------



## DaBabyBullz

THEbigO said:


> im watching michigan st. vs. north carolina. and i have decided that tyler hansborough is good. what does everyone think about his game transferring to the nba. he is very strong. can score in the low post and rebounds well. i really like the guy based on what iv seen in the past few games from him.


Tyler gets blocked way too much for him to be very good in the NBA. He's strong, and a hard worker, and has a pretty good skill lvl, but I just don't see him transitioning well in the NBA at all. (I'm a big UNC fan too btw)


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...8verdi,1,6562999.column?coll=cs-bulls-utility

Bulls get the gift of Thomas-Knicks marriage
Stop yourself if you are preparing your tall-and-growing-taller son for a career as a pro basketball player. His chances of making it are infinitesimal, even in the mostly uncoordinated, often unwatchable NBA East. My recommendation: Choose the same sport and same conference but point him toward being a coach, general manager, president or all the above. Education is nice, not necessary. Experience is helpful, preferably losing.

Isiah Thomas, in short pants, was terrific with the Detroit Pistons. But in his longer afterlife as a silk suit, he finally appears to have found a home in New York, where his contract with multiple titles was extended by multiple years the other day after the Knicks stormed into the eighth and last playoff spot with their 29th victory in 64 starts.




Ordinarily, what happens in the Big Apple wouldn't matter here in the future host to the 2016 Olympic rhythmic gymnastics. But the Bulls' fortunes are linked to a Byzantine series of draft choice possibilities resulting from the Eddy Curry trade. We'll spare you the small print because you know the drill. The more the Knicks play like the Bricks, the better for the Bulls.

Unfortunately for the Bulls, the Knicks haven't been quite as terrible as they can be (still plenty of games to go), which is probably why club Chairman James Dolan rewarded Thomas with a new deal as president/GM/coach. Nobody quite understands Dolan's impatience, because Thomas isn't what you would call a hot commodity, despite the paucity of executive talent throughout sports. Even the all-omniscient Sam Smith hasn't printed Thomas' forwarding address, at least not yet.

But it says something about the NBA's so-called flagship franchise that Thomas is being given more time to act as pooper-scooper for Larry Brown, whom Thomas hired, then succeeded as coach.

Brown pocketed $18.5 million as a settlement, or $1.24 million for each of his 23 victories last season. And he wanted more. That is on top of the $10 million he received for his 331-day term as coach.

In other words, the portable and incorrigible Brown got more money to depart than he did to arrive. Where do you find these jobs? Madison Square Garden, home to allegedly the most sophisticated, most discerning customers.

The co-tenants in that building are a stitch too. Hockey's Rangers were one reason the NHL instituted a salary cap, and they still couldn't make the playoffs. The Blackhawks always cite that as proof you can't buy a Stanley Cup champion, like they would know.

It seems unlikely Thomas will win president of the year, GM of the year or coach of the year. But then, Dolan probably won't be owner of the year for squandering his father's money. James, however, is thrilled that the Knicks have solved their "crisis in confidence" and are playing hard for Isiah. I'm not sure when playing hard two hours a night, three nights a week became a bonus, but I do know if you are suffering from a crisis of confidence, you don't need to see a psychiatrist. Just join the NBA East.

For every regular-season gem like the Suns-Mavericks double-overtime classic Wednesday night, there are dozens of NBA scrums that induce sleep.

If Commissioner David Stern wants to punish Las Vegas for All-Star week misbehavior, he should move the Atlanta Hawks there. They're a real riot, but they won't cause any.

Bulls fans, keep the faith. When asked about some of Thomas' brutal decisions, Dolan replied, "Nobody's perfect." So, consider the Bricks a gift waiting to be unwrapped. Like Christmas, they'll be there when the Bulls need them.


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## yodurk

Knicks handle Toronto with relative ease today. Is that defense I smell?

Curry looks like he had one of his worst outings of the season. Maybe those "Crawford plays well with Curry" theories were true afterall. The Marbury productivity has certainly had a negative correlation with Curry's productivity.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1

yodurk said:


> Is that defense I smell?


:whofarted

Nope. That was me.


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## spongyfungy

NEW YORK (AP) -- Eddy Curry sat down, and the New York Knicks' energy level promptly went up. 
Rookie Renaldo Balkman replaced the foul-troubled Curry and sparked a dominant third quarter with his rebounding and defense, helping the Knicks beat the Toronto Raptors 92-74 Sunday. 
Balkman made all seven shots he took and finished with 15 points and 12 rebounds, with his play on both ends fueling a 27-5 run that turned a two-point deficit into a 20-point lead. 
"I love what I've seen from Renaldo the whole year," Knicks coach Isiah Thomas said. "Defensively he can change the game, his rebounding. Whenever we give him 30-plus minutes, he normally has double-figure rebounds and double-figure points. He's just a guy that somehow finds a way to change a game."












ouch. I'd rather hear "jump"


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## yodurk

Any thoughts on Glen Davis declaring for the draft?

I'm not sure if he'll be around if we're picking in the 12-14 range, but it'd be interesting to bring him on board. He's NBA ready and gives us a true low-post scorer. I've always really been impressed with the guy actually. He's 290 pounds of mostly muscle, and is pretty fast. Plus we know he plays well alongside Tyrus!


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## kulaz3000

yodurk said:


> Any thoughts on Glen Davis declaring for the draft?
> 
> I'm not sure if he'll be around if we're picking in the 12-14 range, but it'd be interesting to bring him on board. He's NBA ready and gives us a true low-post scorer. I've always really been impressed with the guy actually. He's 290 pounds of mostly muscle, and is pretty fast. Plus we know he plays well alongside Tyrus!


We already have one of those thanks.


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## The ROY

yodurk said:


> Any thoughts on Glen Davis declaring for the draft?
> 
> I'm not sure if he'll be around if we're picking in the 12-14 range, but it'd be interesting to bring him on board. He's NBA ready and gives us a true low-post scorer. I've always really been impressed with the guy actually. He's 290 pounds of mostly muscle, and is pretty fast. Plus we know he plays well alongside Tyrus!


He won't be around in the Bulls range? lol yes he will, in the 2nd ROUND! Glen isn't a lotto pick and would be lucky to be a late 1st.

He's fat & 6"8...we already have one of those guys


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## theanimal23

I'd gamble on Big Baby in the 2nd round. Maybe we could pull a San Antonio, and take a Euro player and let him stay there to develop as we retain his rights.


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## The ROY

Sean Williams (6"10)
Herbert Hill (6"10)
Marc Gasol (7"0)
Kyle Visser (6"11)
Nick Fazekas (6"11)
Ivan Radenovic (6"10)
Taurean Green (PG)
Arron Afflalo (SF)

All projected LATE 1st's & early-to-mid 2nd rounder's. I'd draft any of those guys over Glen fat arse.

Our BEST bet IMO would be to take those two 2nd rounders and trade em' for one of Phoenix's late 1st. There's no way they'd want to take on three 1st rounder's contracts (especially when they could have two un-guranteed 2nd's) with their current cap situation, so I'm almost positive we could nab one of their late 1st rounders (currently the 24th & 29th picks).


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## eymang

Damn, it didn't hit me to how close the Knicks were until I read a report on Crawford today that he is aiming a 'playoff return'.

Argh, it's fun to second guess, but Paxson should've traded this unknown pick for a sure thing impact player a long time ago


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## Deng101

eymang said:


> Damn, it didn't hit me to how close the Knicks were until I read a report on Crawford today that he is aiming a 'playoff return'.
> 
> Argh, it's fun to second guess, but Paxson should've traded this unknown pick for a sure thing impact player a long time ago


Not neccessarily, there is still a good chance that pick could be in the 9-10 range. Lot of teams all close to each other at the moment.


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## giusd

The knicks just finished one of the easiest parts of there schedule where they played only six games in 16 days and they managed to go 2 and 4 and losing to Toronto, NO/Olk, Dallas, and Portland and are now eight games under 500. The have 14 games left and there scheducle will be much harder with 10 of the games against either playoff teams or teams in the playoff hunt. And with Q and JC out and EC clearly running out of gas from playing more minutes than he has ever played in one season i think the Knicks are in some serious trouble. If the go 6 and 8 in their last 14 games and that seems likely know they will be 36 and 46 and i dont think that will make the playoffs and they will like give us the 10th lotto pick.

Things could change but i doubt it. At 10 we could get a solid big man int he draft that is deep in centers and PF.

david


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## yodurk

The ROY said:


> He won't be around in the Bulls range? lol yes he will, in the 2nd ROUND! Glen isn't a lotto pick and would be lucky to be a late 1st.
> 
> He's fat & 6"8...we already have one of those guys


Wow, I didn't realize Glen Davis was projected so low in the draft. I swear that last season (when stock was higher) he was ranked as high as 10 by some draft sites. Yeah, it was a weaker draft but to go from late lotto to 2nd round is a big drop. 

Granted, I barely saw him at all this year, but he's more athletic than Sweetney by far and has deeper shooting range. I think he'll be a decent pro. Don't forget how Carlos Boozer was touted as a 2nd round pick and he's a star now.


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## Hustle

I'd sure take him in the second round. And over Sweets.

Bulls currently in 11th spot. My draft board is as follows

*Durant
Oden
BWright
Horford
Hawes
Noah
Hibbert*
_Jialian*_
JWright
_Splitter*_
Arthur
Thorton
McRoberts
_Gasol*_
Hansbrough

*International players subject to change


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## darlets

giusd said:


> The knicks just finished one of the easiest parts of there schedule where they played only six games in 16 days and they managed to go 2 and 4 and losing to Toronto, NO/Olk, Dallas, and Portland and are now eight games under 500. The have 14 games left and there scheducle will be much harder with 10 of the games against either playoff teams or teams in the playoff hunt. And with Q and JC out and EC clearly running out of gas from playing more minutes than he has ever played in one season i think the Knicks are in some serious trouble. If the go 6 and 8 in their last 14 games and that seems likely know they will be 36 and 46 and i dont think that will make the playoffs and they will like give us the 10th lotto pick.
> 
> Things could change but i doubt it. At 10 we could get a solid big man int he draft that is deep in centers and PF.
> 
> david


current standings


Code:


New Orleans 	31	37	0.46	14
Orlando8 	31	38	0.45	13
Indiana 	30	37	0.45	12
New York 	30	38	0.44	11
Minnesota 	29	38	0.43	10
Sacramento 	29	40	0.42	9
Portland 	28	40	0.41	8
Atlanta 	27	42	0.39	7
Seattle 	26	41	0.39	6
Philadelphia 	26	42	0.38	5
Charlotte 	26	43	0.38	4
Milwaukee 	25	42	0.37	3
Boston 	        20	48	0.29	2
Memphiso 	17	52	0.25	1

Remaining games


Code:


01/03/26	Magic

01/03/28	Cavaliers

01/03/30	at Mavericks
01/03/31	at Hornets

01/04/04	76ers
01/04/06	Timberwolves

01/04/07	at Bucks

01/04/09	Pistons
01/04/10	at Bulls

01/04/13	at Nets

01/04/15	at Raptors
01/04/16	Nets

01/04/18	at Bobcats

I think they'll only win four more games and finish on 34 wins, about 8th last.

Atlanta and Portland play today so one of them will gain a game on N.Y.


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## The ROY

Tonight is looking like GREAT night for the NY pick :0

Indiana's killing Miami

Cleveland's killing NY

Atlanta looks like they'll win again

haha


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## Rhyder

The ROY said:


> Tonight is looking like GREAT night for the NY pick :0
> 
> Indiana's killing Miami
> 
> Cleveland's killing NY
> 
> Atlanta looks like they'll win again
> 
> haha


Unfortunately Minneosota lost to a Ray Allen-less Sonics. Unfortunate, unless New York ends up with a worse record than Seattle.


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## darlets

The ROY said:


> Tonight is looking like GREAT night for the NY pick :0
> 
> Indiana's killing Miami
> 
> Cleveland's killing NY
> 
> Atlanta looks like they'll win again
> 
> haha


Would have like the wolves to get up, but a good night for the pick non the less.


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## The ROY

darlets said:


> Would have like the wolves to get up, but a good night for the pick non the less.


This loss should spel the end of KG in Minnesota....horrible loss


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## giusd

I think the knicks may be ready for an total implosion. With Q and JC out they lose a lot of their perimeter game which means teams can pack it in to stop Curry. Curry seems not just tried lately but frustrated that he is getting so many double teams. And to make it worse Curry has been monthing off about the play of his team mates. Now does that ring a bell. The knicks have a very tough schedule the last 13 games and not much time off and i think they be ready to just pack in for next year. Funny 10 days ago it looked like they might get into the last playoff spot and now it looks like 34 wins and we get the 9th or 10th pick.

david


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## Darius Miles Davis

giusd said:


> I think the knicks may be ready for an total implosion. With Q and JC out they lose a lot of their perimeter game which means teams can pack it in to stop Curry. Curry seems not just tried lately but frustrated that he is getting so many double teams. And to make it worse Curry has been monthing off about the play of his team mates. Now does that ring a bell. The knicks have a very tough schedule the last 13 games and not much time off and i think they be ready to just pack in for next year. Funny 10 days ago it looked like they might get into the last playoff spot and now it looks like 34 wins and we get the 9th or 10th pick.
> 
> david


Well, maybe, but New York is still only 1.5 games back of the 8th spot. I know they're trending downward, but I can't count out that they'll sneak in.


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## charlietyra

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Well, maybe, but New York is still only 1.5 games back of the 8th spot. I know they're trending downward, but I can't count out that they'll sneak in.


I agree. The problem is that the Pacers and Nets are playing worse than the Knicks (last 10 games) and the Magic are not playing that great either. What really worries me is that fat fool Barkley almost guaranteed that the Knicks won't make the playoffs. (Talk about a contrary signal.)

Also, in my opinion, there are a number of games on the Knicks schedule that are eminently winnable, not withstanding the conventional wisdom that the remainder of their schedule is tough. At this point, I would say that it is at least 50/50 the Knicks can sneak into that last playoff spot.


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## JeremyB0001

charlietyra said:


> I agree. The problem is that the Pacers and Nets are playing worse than the Knicks (last 10 games) and the Magic are not playing that great either. What really worries me is that fat fool Barkley almost guaranteed that the Knicks won't make the playoffs. (Talk about a contrary signal.)
> 
> Also, in my opinion, there are a number of games on the Knicks schedule that are eminently winnable, not withstanding the conventional wisdom that the remainder of their schedule is tough. At this point, I would say that it is at least 50/50 the Knicks can sneak into that last playoff spot.


Alright. I'll go ahead and disagree. Sure they have a legit chance of making the playoffs, but a 50% chance of picking up a game and a half while passing two teams with thirteen games to play? If you look at it as three teams vying for one spot, if they all had identical records you'd want to say they have a 33% chance of making the playoffs and adjust upwards and downwards from there based on the underlying quality of the teams and the difficulty of their remaining schedules. Since the Knicks have a substantial defecit to overcome, their odds are lower, plus their remaining schedule is the most difficult, and they trail the Nets (though not the Pacers) in Hollinger's rankings. Personally, I'd put their chances at about 25%.


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## such sweet thunder

At the end of the day, there're only three teams that aren't capable of catching the Knicks. Boston, Memphis, and Milwaukee. All the rest of the teams have a shot, with the way the franchises are grouped in the standings. Charlotte is only four wins back and is playing better as of late. Likewise with Philly, Atlanta, and Seattle who are only three back in the wins column. I'd be a little surprised if Sac-town caught the Knicks, but my moneys on the Wolves and Portland surpassing them. 

If the Bulls were were were to get uber uber uber lucky and the Knicks came close to losing out (which is possible if they collapse from the loss of Crawford, and the tough schedule), the Bulls could walk away with a decent shot at the golden ticket.


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## darlets

I think (guess) the next game against the Magic is the key, if the Magic win the knicks could go on a very extended losing streak. Unfortunately the Knicks seem to have it over the Magic at this point.

Obviously, the Wolves and 76 games they play will have abig impact too.


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## Darius Miles Davis

Thank you Vince Carter. Vince caught an errant Jason Kidd 3 pointer and dunked it at the buzzer, which sent the game against Charlotte into overtime, where they promptly won it.


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## such sweet thunder

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Thank you Vince Carter. Vince caught an errant Jason Kidd 3 pointer and dunked it at the buzzer, which sent the game against Charlotte into overtime, where they promptly won it.


I was rooting for Charlotte. I'm playing for broke. I think Charlotte could pass the Knick.


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## RagingBulls316

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Well, maybe, but New York is still only 1.5 games back of the 8th spot. I know they're trending downward, but I can't count out that they'll sneak in.


They are close to the 8th spot...but they are also 1-2 games away from giving us a 5-10 pick.

And the teams below them, seem to be playing well. When they probably should be tanking.

The next 7 days are going to be a huge indication of where our draft pick will likely be.


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## Hustle

and the next 3 weeks critical!


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## BG7

Now ideally. We win a championship this year, then collect Greg Oden in the draft, and win 10 more!


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## darlets

Philly got up. Fingers cross Magic beat the Knicks.


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## LegoHat

Update on some possible picks from Europe:

Tiago Splitter and Tau Ceramicá played Marc Gasol and Akasvayu Girona yesterday in the spanish ACB league. Tau Ceramicá won the game 83-77. 

Tiago Splitter: 20 points (6/16 fg's) and 10 rebounds in 36 minutes.
Marc Gasol: 16 points (5/6 fg's) and 13 rebounds in 30 minutes.

Boxscore

Pictures: 








-









Splitter would be a great pick for us if he is on the board when we pick with the Knicks pick.


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## giusd

Minny is now tied with the knicks and Portland Sac are only 1/2 games back and my guess is two of those teams end up with a better record than the Knicks who look ready to mail it in the rest of the season. The Knicks are in total disarray. I would not be surprised if we end up with the 8th or 9th pick in the draft.

david


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## JeremyB0001

such sweet thunder said:


> If the Bulls were were were to get uber uber uber lucky and the Knicks came close to losing out (which is possible if they collapse from the loss of Crawford, and the tough schedule), the Bulls could walk away with a decent shot at the golden ticket.


At 2.5 games back of the 6th spot with 13 games to go, I don't think they need to lose out to make things interesting. The Rockets landed the top pick out of the 7th spot a few years ago. In sixth we'd be looking at something like a 13% chance of the top two picks. I'd say if NY just goes 4-9, things get mighty interesting.

Edit: Not to mention, if we got up to 6 or 7 I'd probably be even more excited by the fact that we'd most likely land Hawes or even Horford.


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## such sweet thunder

I think much of it is going to depend on how David Lee comes back from his injury. He's been good for a double-double off the bench all season long, before he missed 12 of his last 13 with a leg injury. He played two games ago and then sat the last one out. If they do decide to shut him down for the rest of the season, then three or four remaining wins is actually a possibility.

The T-Wolves and Sac Town pulled into a tie with Knicks in the win column. 

Portland is one back. Philadelphia is two. I think you'd have to put it at fifty-fifty for either to catch, or at least tie, the Knick. Seattle and Atlanta are outsides possibilities at three back.


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## such sweet thunder

The guy with the hand up in the air. . . is he who I think he is?


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## King Joseus

such sweet thunder said:


> The guy with the hand up in the air. . . is he who I think he is?


Indeed, that would be Dalibor himself. 6 and 3 in 10:34...


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## such sweet thunder

King Joseus said:


> Indeed, that would be Dalibor himself. 6 and 3 in 10:34...


No wonder Gasol had such a good game . . .


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## Da Grinch

such sweet thunder said:


> No wonder Gasol had such a good game . . .


gasol and bags are on the same team.


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## such sweet thunder

Da Grinch said:


> gasol and bags are on the same team.


In the only clips I've seen of Splitter, he's been bald. Shows you how much I know about the Spanish League. But if Dalibor is in the finals, perhaps I should invest more time.

Edit:

New Orleans wins again tonight, but the sonics get blown out by the Spurs:

New Jersey 32 
Orlando 32 
NO/Oklahoma City 32 
Indiana 31 
Minnesota 30 
Sacramento 30 
*New York 30* 
Portland 29 
Philadelphia 28 
Seattle 27 
Atlanta 27 
Charlotte 26 
Milwaukee 25 
Boston 20 
Memphis 17 

9th pick if you're just looking at the win column. 11th pick if you're looking at winning percentage.


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## theanimal23

You gotta look at the loss column. Forget % or the number of wins. Losses is the key factor.


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## Da Grinch

theanimal23 said:


> You gotta look at the loss column. Forget % or the number of wins. Losses is the key factor.


i think wins are more important if you are talking about losing teams because thats the more rare item.


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## theanimal23

Look at the reverse standings on ESPN. Losses are always most important. 

For example, you have two teams Seattle and Atlanta as of today who are 27-42 and 27-44 respectively. Both have the same number of wins, but Atlanta has two more losses. 

The losses can't be made up for. They have a 2 game lead on Seattle for ping pong balls. Seattle has two more games to play to play the same number of games as Atlanta. Although it is likely they will lose, but if they win even one, they end up at 28-43, while Atlanta remains at 27-44. Atlanta could win their next game in the mean time (during the two game stretch Seattle plays), and if they win, Atlanta becomes 28-44 while Seattle is at 28-43. Atlanta still has a 1 game lead toward Oden/Durant.

When you are games behind in the standings, the loss column can't be made up for.


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## Darius Miles Davis

Iverson just threw one of the best bounce passes I've ever see, about halfway down the court, bouncing perfectly between two Detroit defenders to a streaking Melo.

Unfortunately, Denver is going to need more to knock off Detroit, who's got an early 13 point lead.


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## Darius Miles Davis

The Knicks are in a serious dogfight with the Magic tonight at the Garden. Magic by 3 with about six minutes to go. This is a huge game for both teams, and if the Magic happen to pull it off, it would be huge for us.


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## LuolDeng

Knicks about to get a huge win...****ttttt


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## Fizer Fanatic

Jameer Nelson is my new favorite player.


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## LuolDeng

JAMEER NELSON with 2 huge 3's in a row


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## LuolDeng

Knicks lose! Thank you Dwight Howard and Jameer Nelson


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## Darius Miles Davis

Magic win. Dwight Howard should have been called for a crucial goaltending violation, but the call wasn't made.


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## Fizer Fanatic

Free throws from Turkeyglue and ******* put it away along w/ a couple of blocks from Howard. I'm liking the way the Knicks are finishing the season for us. If we get upset by Portland tonight, we might even have a shot at the #8 pick.


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## yodurk

Jameer Nelson with back-to-back 3's in the final minute. Awesome! Magic win, Knicks lose. 

Huge dagger for the Knicks. 4th loss in a row, and now 10 games under .500. Great for us.


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## giusd

OK so the knicks are 1 and 6 in their last seven games. The look ready to tan and i say they finish badly and end up 33 and 49. That should be the 8th pick in the draft. On the other hand the knicks will get the 22 pick. Nice trade by IT. We get TT and Hawes or Thirits from georgetown and they get curry. I guess how won that trade is a done deal. But i forget EC is an allstar who will carry that knicks into the playoffs. Yes like maybe in a couple of years.

david


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## darlets

I'm hoping the Cavs and Mavericks can continue the losing streak, and you'd back the Hornets on the road on the end of a back to back.

Fingers crossed on the 76 and Wolves.

71 Cavaliers 
72 Fri. Mar. 30 8:30 p.m. ET at Mavericks 
73 Sat. Mar. 31 8:00 p.m. ET at Hornets 
74 Wed. Apr. 04 7:30 p.m. ET 76ers 
75 Fri. Apr. 06 7:30 p.m. ET Timberwolves


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## charlietyra

giusd said:


> OK so the knicks are 1 and 6 in their last seven games. The look ready to tan and i say they finish badly and end up 33 and 49. That should be the 8th pick in the draft. On the other hand the knicks will get the 22 pick. Nice trade by IT. We get TT and Hawes or Thirits from georgetown and they get curry. I guess how won that trade is a done deal. But i forget EC is an allstar who will carry that knicks into the playoffs. Yes like maybe in a couple of years.
> 
> david



I am willing to bet that the large majority of GMs in the league would take Curry, a dominant low post scoring threat, over Tyrus Thomas whose only apparent skill is blocking shots. It remains to be seen what mistake Paxson will make in this year's draft.


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## theanimal23

I agree with Charlietyra, but I am curious to see where this Knicks pick ends up. At the 8th slot, we actually have a shot to get a top 2 pick. I want OSU to win it all, or at least reach the final just so Oden is almost surely going to come out. Hell, hopefully they do, so Conley comes out, somewhat forcing Oden's decision too.

I don't even care if we land Durant, and not Oden (at pick 2). I'll be extremely thrilled.

At Pick 8ish, I can see the following going down:

Top 5 picks: Oden, Durant, Wright, Noah, Horford
Next few guys who can come in: Green, Yi, Hibbert, Hawes, Brewer

You might have a guy like Acie Law IV sneak into the top 10. He's had a solid year and tourney. 

Pick 8 puts us at a very favorable position. If I'm there, I'll be happy with Yi, Hawes, or Hibbert, but it is manageable to move up and get my guy Al Horford. 

People might not this, but I was hoping we lost tonight. I want the season to end up like this:

1. Detroit
2. Cleveland
3. Toronto
4. Washington
5. Miami
6. Chicago
7. Not NYK
8. Not NYK

With Minny, Sac, Portland, and somehow Philly (3 games is a lot to make up with 10ish games left this season) moving past NYK. NYK pick ends up 7-8ish, where we got a very good draft position, a solid chance of getting a top two pick or the ability to trade up to 4 or 5...

And we play Toronto in round 1, and Cleveland in round 2. We meet either Detroit or Miami in the Conf Finals if we get past Cle.


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## theanimal23

Anything can happen, but the teams with more losses than NY that can end up with more wins during this stretch are Philly only. Portland has some tough games left vs some top 4 Western teams. Those guys are fighting for homecourt and seeding.

Seattle has an injured Allen. Tank. Finished.

Sacramento is an X factor. Will the guys have the willingness to still compete knowing they are out of the playoffs? We have to hope them along with Minny feel compelled to go out and try to get W's.

Indy and Orlando better make it.

If Philly passes NY, we get the 8th pick. I'll take that.


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## eymang

Would I be evil for wanting the Knicks in, for the possibility of a Bulls/Knicks playoff matchup? I mean if not a top pick anyways...

*ducks*


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## yodurk

theanimal23 said:


> Anything can happen, but the teams with more losses than NY that can end up with more wins during this stretch are Philly only. Portland has some tough games left vs some top 4 Western teams. Those guys are fighting for homecourt and seeding.
> 
> Seattle has an injured Allen. Tank. Finished.
> 
> Sacramento is an X factor. Will the guys have the willingness to still compete knowing they are out of the playoffs? We have to hope them along with Minny feel compelled to go out and try to get W's.
> 
> Indy and Orlando better make it.
> 
> If Philly passes NY, we get the 8th pick. I'll take that.


According to the Sagarin rankings (doesn't include Monday's games), 

http://www.kiva.net/~jsagarin/sports/nbasend.htm

Kings, Blazers, and Wolves all have easier schedules to finish the year. Knicks still have one of the hardest (seems like we've been saying that for weeks!). I'd say all 3 have a very good chance of passing the Knicks. Philly is right in the middle; with only 10 games left it's tough to make up 2 games.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1

They are 2 games out of the playoffs with 12 to go, including games against Cleveland, Detroit, Toronto and us.

They have won only 1 of their last 7.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baske...ar27,0,4688849.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines

Knicks pick wrong time for losing streak
Nelson's two threes, non-call set up fourth straight defeat
BY ANTHONY RIEBER
[email protected]

Email this story

Printer friendly format 
March 27, 2007

Late in the third quarter of the Knicks-Magic game last night, play was halted briefly as red, white and blue confetti started to fall from the ceiling at Madison Square Garden.

Perhaps it was left over from the Elton John concert the night before. Or from 1973 (the last time the Knicks won the NBA title). Or 2004 (the last time they made the playoffs).





The confetti certainly hadn't been dislodged from the rafters by the Knicks blowing the roof off the building with exceptional play. They were trailing by six in what, for better or worse in the woeful Eastern Conference, was a playoff-picture showdown. The Knicks needed this game. Badly. But they didn't get it.

Back-to-back clutch three-pointers by Jameer Nelson and a questionable non-call on Dwight Howard's blocked shot fueled the Magic's 94-89 win over the Knicks, who have lost four straight and six of seven in a playoff push that is going the wrong way.

The Knicks (30-40, season-worst 10 under .500) fell to 2– games behind the seventh-place Magic (33-38) and two behind the eighth-place Nets (32-38).

The Knicks were leading 87-84 with 1:06 left when Nelson (18 points) hit a three-pointer to tie it. On the next possession, Stephon Marbury (32 points) drove the lane and let go a pretty scoop shot that Howard blocked. As the Knicks looked for a goaltending call that didn't come, Orlando headed downcourt and took the lead on Nelson's second three-pointer.

Marbury and coach Isiah Thomas fumed over the non-call; replays supported the Knicks' contention that the ball was coming down when Howard swatted it.

"That was clear as day it was goaltending," Marbury said. "I wouldn't say it decided the game. It was a game-changer."

Said Orlando coach Brian Hill: "I didn't think it was anywhere close to goaltending." He was smiling when he said it.

Thomas was not smiling when he said: "They missed it, but we had some turnovers and missed some free throws. It is a basketball game full of human error. I will give them the benefit of the doubt. That's part of the game and nobody's perfect."

The Knicks were not perfect in many areas. Their only players to score in double figures were Marbury, who played like a man possessed, and Eddy Curry, who had 17 points after missing practice with the flu.

The Knicks were 23-for-37 (62 percent) from the foul line. They allowed the Magic to grab four offensive rebounds in the fourth quarter, including two by the 6-foot Nelson.

And most galling to Thomas were the two open threes by Nelson. Although Thomas tried to lay it on Nate Robinson's inexperience, defending the three-point line hasn't been a Knicks strength all season, regardless of which guards have been on the floor at crunch time.

"We got beat by sometimes just immaturity and not understanding enough," Thomas said. "We give up two threes. One is over Nate and the other was when Nate got caught on a switch.

"Those are just things, unfortunately, we have to learn from as we continue to go down this road. I keep reminding myself that one day these guys will be 25 and not get beat by know-how plays at the end of the game."

It's true that Robinson was on the floor with rookie Mardy Collins in the game's crucial moments. But Thomas chose to use the young guards and keep Steve Francis on the bench (not that Francis is any defensive whiz). Francis, who started after missing practice with the flu, was replaced by Collins to open the second half and played only 12 minutes, scoring one point.

"I can't cry over spoiled milk," Francis said. "I have to be strong, suck it up and think about something positive. It's hard."


----------



## giusd

I think the knicks are toast and last nights game was the final straw. Curry, Starbruy, and IT looked really upset. The knicks gave that game away against a pretty weak Orlando team that imho will end up in 9th place and will miss the playoffs. The knicks schedule does not only get much harder but they have very few days off over the last 12 games of the season and with Lee, Q, and JC out i just dont see how they can win more than 4 of their next 12 games. And the way Minny, Sac, Portland, and every Phill are playing all four of those teams could easily catch and pass the Knickis. I really think we could get the 7th pick but the 8th seems like the one. Hawes or hibbert would look really good in a bulls uniform.

david


----------



## Soulful Sides

> The mood in the locker room grows darker by the day. Eddy Curry, who had 17 points, left without speaking to reporters. Steve Francis — who played only 12 minutes, 3 in the second half — expressed frustration over his diminished role for the second straight game.
> 
> “It’s tough, but it’s the nature of the business,” said Francis, who missed all four of his field-goal attempts and finished with 1 point. “I don’t know what to do to get back on the basketball court.”
> 
> Asked if he had discussed the matter with Thomas, Francis said no.
> 
> “That’s the way that he sees it,” Francis said. “He’s the ultimate coach and president, so if that’s what his decision is, I just have to suck it up and live with it.” As he turned away, he added wryly, “Political answers.”
> --
> David Lee is unsure when he will play again. Lee played 10 minutes last Thursday despite a stress reaction in his right leg. The pain in the two days that followed was intense.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/27/sports/basketball/27knicks.html?_r=1&ref=sports&oref=slogin



> Thomas has lost all of his confidence in Steve Francis, whom he benched to start the second half and didn't even play when they were desperate for a perimeter threat. Francis played 12 minutes, scored one point, missed all four of his shots and said afterward he was "definitely confused."
> 
> With Francis benched and in the doghouse for complaining Saturday night, the Knicks have few options other than driving the ball.
> --
> One of the lowest moments came when Eddy Curry shot an airball on a free throw with 10:39 left and the fans erupted in boos. Curry made the next, drawing a loud sarcastic roar in a dying season.


http://www.nypost.com/seven/03272007/sports/knicks/knicks_about_knicks_marcberman.htm?page=2


----------



## Soulful Sides

> after Howard showed why he's the best young big man in the East, Thomas seemed resigned to the fact that he's not going to get the Knicks into the postseason. Just as Larry Brown didn't last season, and Herb Williams didn't the season before that. "As I told my team, as we continue to grow and go down this road, when we master the little things, we can be a really good basketball team," he said.
> 
> As his first season on the bench has turned into a nightmare, Thomas has been playing the injury card lately, playing it up big. In the last few days, he has constantly harped on who's missing from his team. The list, of course, starts with Jamal Crawford and continues with David Lee and Quentin Richardson. Those are not insignificant losses. Crawford's willingness to take the big shot, Lee's work on the glass and Richardson's defensive prowess are key ingredients.
> 
> But Thomas never seems to want to talk about who is still playing and why they can't seem to get the Knicks into the playoffs in the worst East we've seen in years.
> 
> The competition isn't so great that the survivors can't get the job done. But that would entail Thomas leveling some criticism at Stephon Marbury and Curry, his two signature pickups during his reign in the Garden. As Larry Brown himself will attest, that's a no-no for anyone who works for James Dolan. Plus, Thomas doesn't point fingers at himself.
> 
> But there was no guarantee that he was going to pilot this team to the playoffs, even if everyone had stayed healthy. The Knicks' high-water mark since Jan. 1 was getting to within five games of .500 on three different occasions, the latest being March 10. That's nothing to brag about and certainly isn't grounds for stating unequivocally that we had ourselves a playoff team at the Garden.
> 
> They're 10 games under .500 now. Translated, it's like being six feet under.


nydailynews.com


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## BULLHITTER

KEEP HOPE ALIVE?:biggrin:


----------



## step

I'll be keeping my eye on Milwaukee on lottery day, if they don't luck out with a top 2 pick, I can't see them that interested in many of the bigs when they already have Villanueva and Bogut.


----------



## The ROY

step said:


> I'll be keeping my eye on Milwaukee on lottery day, if they don't luck out with a top 2 pick, I can't see them that interested in many of the bigs when they already have Villanueva and Bogut.


Actually, with some of Bogut's actions this season, I wouldn't say he's 'untradeable'.

He complained that he wished the offense was ran through him but it won't be that way as long as he's on a guard oriented team.

Also, wasn't his expletive gesture done in Milwaukee?

Not saying we could get him but I could see them looking for another center if they feel he'll be a problem.

Jeff Green is looking like the perfect SF for them though.


----------



## step

> Jeff Green is looking like the perfect SF for them though.


True, but going by the standings at the moment taking him at 3/4 would be a waste of the pick given how valuable it will be. Draftexpress has Green at 12, though I reckon he'll go a bit higher than that which would put him in the territory of the Knicks pick (7-10). One thing though is that they have to be wary of Seattle, who most likely lose Lewis and be looking for a replacement.

It would benefit both teams, they get their man on a cheaper rookie contract plus another piece or two (have to really sit down and look at what it would most likely take) and we get to choose which big outside of Oden and Durant we want, rather than the leftovers.


----------



## The ROY

step said:


> True, but going by the standings at the moment taking him at 3/4 would be a waste of the pick given how valuable it will be. Draftexpress has Green at 12, though I reckon he'll go a bit higher than that which would put him in the territory of the Knicks pick (7-10). One thing though is that they have to be wary of Seattle, who most likely lose Lewis and be looking for a replacement.
> 
> It would benefit both teams, they get their man on a cheaper rookie contract plus another piece or two (have to really sit down and look at what it would most likely take) and we get to choose which big outside of Oden and Durant we want, rather than the leftovers.


I dunno, I don't see them trading down to land Brewer or Green. Simmons is their SF (and a pretty good one) so they a

they aren't HURTING for help at the position, epecially with Ruben Patterson playing back-up.

If they land Horford, Noah, Hawes etc., I'd suspect they'd keep them and work the rest out later.

I DO think they would of traded down for Julian Wright though.


----------



## giusd

This is a really deep draft and i think some of the players after the big 2 or 3 are going to fall when the europe players some declaring for the draft. Pau's bro, Spliter, and others will be lotto picks and i think players like Hawer and Hibbert will fall into the bulls pick.

Thanks IT. What was that, EC getting smoked by Howard and orlando beats the knicks in a must wine game for NY. I wonder how many playoff games EC has played in?????? That's is ZERO. JC that would also bw ZERO. When was the lsat season the knicks went to the playoffs??? 2004. So over three years the knicks have paid what like 360 million dollars in salaries and they still are not made it in the playoffs and this year it will be the great Marbury and EC meltdown. Maybe EC will get another tatoo that says i should have gone to the playoffs to match his i should have been an allstar tatoo. I think next year EC should get a tatoo that says I will finally get in shape in the off season tato or onw that says just because i make like 10 million year doesn't mean i have to work out in the off season or lay off the quarterbounders with cheese.

david


----------



## The ROY

I seriously doubt Marc Gasol becomes a lotto pick, he'd be lucky to become a LATE first.


----------



## kulaz3000

giusd said:


> This is a really deep draft and i think some of the players after the big 2 or 3 are going to fall when the europe players some declaring for the draft. Pau's bro, Spliter, and others will be lotto picks and i think players like Hawer and Hibbert will fall into the bulls pick.
> 
> Thanks IT. What was that, EC getting smoked by Howard and orlando beats the knicks in a must wine game for NY. I wonder how many playoff games EC has played in?????? That's is ZERO. JC that would also bw ZERO. When was the lsat season the knicks went to the playoffs??? 2004. So over three years the knicks have paid what like 360 million dollars in salaries and they still are not made it in the playoffs and this year it will be the great Marbury and EC meltdown. Maybe EC will get another tatoo that says i should have gone to the playoffs to match his i should have been an allstar tatoo. I think next year EC should get a tatoo that says I will finally get in shape in the off season tato or onw that says just because i make like 10 million year doesn't mean i have to work out in the off season or lay off the quarterbounders with cheese.
> 
> david


I dont see how Gasol or Splitter end up in the lottery, though could be wrong mind you.

Gasol i heard is slower than his brother, which is saying quite alot because Pau is quite slow himself and is noway as good offensively. His name is only getting a boost because of his brothers creditionals in my opinion. Once he goes for work outs he could drop or in reverse there could be something about him and he could go up.

Splitter has been around too long, and his already a little older for a team in the lottery to take him. There has been plenty chances for him to be in the league, and he hasn't been seeked too eagerly. Plus, though his a good player, i dont think anything about him is a sure stand out NBA quality about his play.

I was looking forward to possibility of drafting Hibbert, but his stock is only going to go higher with his play recently. I think he'll be gone quite high..


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## step

> Splitter has been around too long, and his already a little older for a team in the lottery to take him. There has been plenty chances for him to be in the league, and he hasn't been seeked too eagerly. Plus, though his a good player, i dont think anything about him is a sure stand out NBA quality about his play.


His contract status scared off the teams before, this draft that is no more.


----------



## such sweet thunder

The Bad:

Indiana and New Orleans lost

The Good/Bad:

Sonics beat the Twolves to move up to 28 wins, just two shy of New York. However, Minnesota remains stuck tied with the Knick.


----------



## Wishbone

Splitter will definitely be availble with wherever the Knick pick lands... hell, he'd probably be available with our own pick in the low 20's

Not saying he wouldn't be a good pickup for the Bulls... but his lack of a refined offensive game would make him pretty redundant on our roster -- already have a Wallace and a Thomas in that category of player.
I'm thinking more and more that Hibbert is the guy. Only now that G-town is making some noise in the tourney, it looks like Hibbert's going to see his stock soar. He might end up being the 3rd or 4th guy taken... But still, if he fell a few picks, he'd be a great fit for the Bulls future. With Wallace around for a couple more years to teach him the finer points of defending, boxing out, sealing off etc... I can see a pretty devasatating future frontcourt of Deng, Thomas and Hibbert. 
Now that's some serious defense... I can just picture it now: Hinrich and Gordon try to funnell opposing guards to the middle of the floor, where they have to try and get around Hibbert and be wary of the weak-side block from Thomas. It's gonna be crazy good.


----------



## darlets

This is the top ten as it currently stands on nbadraft.com There's only two Non PF or C, that being Durant and Green. Our range still is around 8-12th 

By the look of it we'll be in the position of BPA plays a position of need as well. 

Greg Oden 7-0 250 C Ohio St. Fr. 
Kevin Durant 6-10 220 SF Texas Fr. 
Brandan Wright 6-10 210 PF UNC Fr. 
Al Horford 6-9 245 PF Florida Jr. 
Yi Jianlian 7-0 230 PF China 1984 
Jeff Green 6-8 235 SF Georgetown Jr. 
Joakim Noah 6-11 230 PF Florida Jr. 
Roy Hibbert 7-2 278 C Georgetown Jr. 
Hasheem Thabeet 7-3 265 C UConn Fr. 
Spencer Hawes 6-11 250 C Wash. Fr.


----------



## Fizer Fanatic

31 straight FTs made, and big Z chokes (way short) to tie the game w/ 35 secs left. Then Marbury hits a 3. Crap!


----------



## LuolDeng

Figures, just when things are looking awesome with the pick it comes crashing down.


----------



## DaBullz

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="yspsctnhdln">New York 97, Cleveland 93
</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="7"><spacer type="block" height="1" width="1"></td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> Preview - Box Score - *Recap* </td> </tr> </tbody></table> 
By BRIAN MAHONEY, AP Basketball Writer
March 28, 2007

<table style="padding-left: 8px; padding-bottom: 5px;" align="right" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td class="ysptblbdr2"> <table class="yspwhitebg" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td align="center">
<small>AP - Mar 28, 9:09 pm EDT</small>
More Photos</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> 
NEW YORK (AP) -- Eddy Curry scored 13 of his 25 points in the fourth quarter, Stephon Marbury rattled in a clinching 3-pointer with 8.5 seconds left, and the New York Knicks revived their playoff hopes Wednesday night by beating the Cleveland Cavaliers 97-93 to snap a four-game losing streak. 

Marbury and Channing Frye each finished with 16 points for the Knicks, who won for just the second time in eight games. The untimely slump had dropped them two games behind New Jersey for the eighth and final playoff spot entering Wednesday's games. 

LeBron James scored 24 points for the Cavaliers, who had a chance to tie the game at 94, but Zydrunas Ilgauskas made only one of two free throws with 34 seconds left. The Knicks ran the shot clock down before Marbury launched a 3 from the right side that seemed ready to bounce out before falling in, sealing New York's much-needed win. 

Sasha Pavlovic added 20 points for the Cavaliers, who fell three games behind Detroit for best record in the East. The Cavs, who clinched a playoff berth Tuesday, fell to 1-1 on a five-game road trip while they vacate their arena for the women's Final Four. 

The short-handed Knicks, playing without three key players, got a big game from Curry, who was a surprisingly strong 11-for-14 from the free throw line. He twice had baskets early in the fourth quarter after Cleveland had cut New York's lead to one point. 

New York led for the final 8-plus minutes, but never by more than five points. Marbury hit another key 3-pointer with 1:41 left after James turned it over with the Cavs having closed to 91-89. 

The Knicks added to their injury list when Steve Francis was lost to a sprained right late in the first quarter after a strong start. The Cavs were much luckier just before halftime when James took a hard fall on a drive to the hoop. But he got up and made the free throws, then shook off another fall when he was tripped up by Jared Jeffries on a drive with about 3 1/2 minutes left in the third quarter. 

Playing on the road for the second straight night, the Cavaliers shot only 35 percent in a sluggish first half. The Knicks shot 54 percent, getting 10 points apiece from Frye and Curry in taking a 51-46 lead. 

New York extended its lead to 65-56 midway through the third quarter on the second of Marbury's consecutive layups, but Cleveland tied it at 70 with a rare three-point play. James found Eric Snow for a basket at the buzzer, with Frye getting called for a technical foul for grabbing the rim while trying to block the shot. James hit the tying technical free throw before the start of the fourth.
<small>*
Notes*</small>

X-rays on Francis' ankle were negative. He was 3-for-3 for seven points in 10 minutes, two days after expressing frustration with his playing time after scoring only one point in 12 minutes of a loss to Orlando. ... Randolph Morris, who signed with the Knicks last week just days after playing for Kentucky in the NCAA tournament, made his NBA debut with 3:27 left in first quarter. He played 6 minutes and fit right in with the Knicks, going 1-for-4 from the free throw line. ... The Knicks evened the season series at 2-all after Cleveland won 90-68 at home last Friday.


----------



## the-asdf-man

was watching the knicks cavs game and rooting so hard for hte knicks tonight, was like jumping around when marbury hit that three what an amazing play :-D

brings us to within 1 game of 2nd seed (which means hopefully cakewalk through first 2 rounds against like Magic in 1st round and raptors in 2nd round while miami, cleveland, and pistons beat up on each other in the other bracket)

knicks are due to win sometime, and it's great that it came against the cavs. looking at the rest of their schedule they have it really tough, especially now that francis and balkman (possibly) are joining lee and crawford on the injured list after tonight. So pick's still gonna be good.


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## McBulls

How good can the Cavs be if they can't beat this depleated Knicks team?


----------



## step

> How good can the Cavs be if they can't beat this depleated Knicks team?


Each team has its day, don't forget we did lose to the worst team in the NBA.


----------



## Rhyder

If a Knicks win comes at the expense of a Detroit or Cavalier loss, I'll gladly take it. However, other teams around the Knicks pick definately did not help out tonight.

(Clips game is not over as of yet, but we would like them to lose to Houston)

*The bad*
Philly lost (who was only 2 games behind the Knicks until tonight)
Orlando lost (Boston had no chance of catching the Knicks)
New Orleans lost (and is now only 1/2 game ahead of the Knicks)
Minnesota lost (and is now 1/2 game behind the Knicks)

*The mostly indifferent*
Atlanta lost (was ahead of the Bobcats, although might be good for Charlotte's chances)
Indiana lost (although New Jersey won which was good)

*The good*
Seattle won (although Allen is done for the season which should make it more difficult to surpass them)


----------



## theanimal23

the-asdf-man said:


> was watching the knicks cavs game and rooting so hard for hte knicks tonight, was like jumping around when marbury hit that three what an amazing play :-D
> 
> brings us to within 1 game of 2nd seed (which means hopefully cakewalk through first 2 rounds against like Magic in 1st round and raptors in 2nd round while miami, cleveland, and pistons beat up on each other in the other bracket)
> 
> knicks are due to win sometime, and it's great that it came against the cavs. looking at the rest of their schedule they have it really tough, especially now that francis and balkman (possibly) are joining lee and crawford on the injured list after tonight. So pick's still gonna be good.


Would have been better if the Cavs won tonight, and lost to a different opponent instead. The next two vs Detroit and the one vs Cleveland controls our destiny. Lets see if the Bulls mean business. Knicks losses are more important to me right now than anything else. This may be the last time we have a chance to add a serious talent to the mix. We know it won't be by trade. I hope two of the three (Philly, Portland, and Seattle) can at least pass the Knicks, and put us at slot 7 with a 5.3% chance of landing the 1st pick. I'll take my chances there with at least hoping we grab a decent guy at 7 versus sitting there at 10-11. At worse, we are at a draft position where it is feasible to trade up using next year's first rounder.


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## darlets

nba.com currently has the cavs 4 in the conference??? I'm confused, I thought they'd still be second????

1 Detroit 45 25 0.643 
2 Toronto 39 32 0.549 
3 Washington 38 32 0.543 
4 Cleveland 43 29 0.597 
5 Chicago 42 30 0.583 
6 Miami 38 33 0.535 
7 New Jersey 33 38 0.465 
8 Orlando 33 39 0.458


----------



## Rhyder

darlets said:


> nba.com currently has the cavs 4 in the conference??? I'm confused, I thought they'd still be second????
> 
> 1 Detroit 45 25 0.643
> 2 Toronto 39 32 0.549
> 3 Washington 38 32 0.543
> 4 Cleveland 43 29 0.597
> 5 Chicago 42 30 0.583
> 6 Miami 38 33 0.535
> 7 New Jersey 33 38 0.465
> 8 Orlando 33 39 0.458


It's wrong. Cleveland would have the second seed if the season ended today.


----------



## Fizer Fanatic

the-asdf-man said:


> was watching the knicks cavs game and rooting so hard for hte knicks tonight, was like jumping around when marbury hit that three what an amazing play :-D


I guess we would have came out ahead either way. Like you say, ending w/ the #2 seed would be exceptional for our playoff chances, especially if Miami ends at the #4 seed (unlikely) w/ Detroit at #1 and Cleveland at #5. If New Jersey falls to #8, even better. At the same time, I'd really like to be in a position to draft Hibbert (assuming we don't get lucky in the lottery, and Pax would pull the trigger if he's still there) or at least some decent big guy. I like following the projected final records here (taking into account strength of schedule for the remaining games)...
Box Score Basketball


----------



## yodurk

step said:


> Each team has its day, don't forget we did lose to the worst team in the NBA.


Well, the Grizzlies are much more competitive now that they have a mostly healthy team. The record stinks because they were depleted for so long, but they're competing well in alot of games lately.

Marbury's 3 at the end was the same garbage they've been winning games with all season in the closing seconds. Surprised Curry had the dominant 4th quarter; he usually plays poorly against Big Z, and he was having a pretty sub-par game until then.


----------



## Hustle

We really need a top 8 pick. After that all the real good big options will be gone(Oden,Hibbert,Hawes,Horford), and we'll be getting a second/third teir guy in this draft. I don't know if the Knicks lose that much ground. I think the Bulls are going to have to think about shipping our pick/maybe sefolosha, duhon, or Khryapa(lol)/future picks to move up.


----------



## JeremyB0001

Hustle said:


> I think the Bulls are going to have to think about shipping our pick/maybe sefolosha, duhon, or Khryapa(lol)/future picks to move up.


I like the idea but it could be difficult to move up because of that dropoff. For instance, most teams couldn't trade their entire roster to move from 3rd to 2nd in this draft even though it's only the difference of one spot.


----------



## giusd

Well the knicks won a big game on wed but they are at dallas on friday and NO ons sat then get a day off and at home agaisnt a much improved and hot philly team. If they have any chance what so ever they need to win at least two of these three games. But you can forget about dallas they will get killed and NO is playing very good bb the last month and it will be the knicks fourth game in six days and the second of a back to back so they will be tried. If the knicks lose on Friday and sat night they will go to 11 games under 500 and their playoff hopes will be over. At 31 and 42 and nine games left the best they sould hope for is 36 wins and that will not make it into the playoffs and should get the bulls the ninth pick in the draft. Can you say Hawes or Hibbert???/


daivd


----------



## theanimal23

Knicks beat the Mavs and Hornets. They win the games you think they lose, and lose the games they are suppose to win. No one can figure it out.


----------



## giusd

DEMORALIZING lose for the knicks tonight. And with the win by Orlando tonight the knicks are if a rough spot. At 31 and 41 they have only ten games left and a rough schedule. But they played with a lot of heart tonight but it will be their third game in four nights on sat against NO and if they lose on sat it is all over for them.

david


----------



## yodurk

Even when they lose, I get frustrated watching the Knicks' boxscores. They play a team like Dallas on the road when they should be getting killed, and they very nearly pull off the upset. Marbury was unconscious. Fortunatly, Dirk stepped up big down the stretch. 

I'm really getting tired of the pick swap idea. It was alot more fun last year when you knew the Knicks were gonna lose most games. No matter how many guys get injured, Marbury just keeps this team going somehow.


----------



## theanimal23

Roy Hibberts Draft Status is to be determined Saturday.

Good game vs Oden: Top 8 pick. Maybe 6th.
Bad game vs Oden: Top 14 pick


----------



## chifaninca

theanimal23 said:


> Roy Hibberts Draft Status is to be determined Saturday.
> 
> Good game vs Oden: Top 8 pick. Maybe 6th.
> Bad game vs Oden: Top 14 pick



If that's the case.....Go OSU and Oden.


I think we are in the 12th spot when all is said and done


----------



## theanimal23

I agree with you, that you'd want a bad outing for Hibbert, somewhat. But, it will be a test of his development and how he fairs against players who are his size.

I have not seen much GTown this year, so I'm looking forward to seeing Hibbert play. But if he can be a player who provides 13-10-1.5 per game and Tyrus (who has much more potential) can become a 17-10 player, then I will be very happy with the trade overall. 

At 12, I'm looking for a solid starter/rotation player. 

At 8, I want a guy who will be a solid starter but has the potential to blow up. A guy like Yi would be intriguing here.


----------



## darlets

New York play New Orleans tomorrow, then Wolves and Philly. 

All these teams win roughly 4 out of every 10 games. We really need N.Y to go 2-8 over the last 10.

13 New Orleans 32	40	0.44
12 New York 31	41	0.43
11 Indiana 31	41	0.43
10 Sacramento 30	41	0.42
9 Seattle 30	42	0.42
8 Minnesota 30	42	0.42
7 Philadelphia 29	43	0.4
6 Portland 29	43	0.4
5 Charlotte 28	45	0.38
4 Atlanta 27	46	0.37
3 Milwaukee 25	46	0.35
2 Bostono 22	50	0.31
1 Memphiso 19	55	0.26


----------



## Rhyder

theanimal23 said:


> I agree with you, that you'd want a bad outing for Hibbert, somewhat. But, it will be a test of his development and how he fairs against players who are his size.
> 
> I have not seen much GTown this year, so I'm looking forward to seeing Hibbert play. But if he can be a player who provides 13-10-1.5 per game and Tyrus (who has much more potential) can become a 17-10 player, then I will be very happy with the trade overall.
> 
> At 12, I'm looking for a solid starter/rotation player.
> 
> At 8, I want a guy who will be a solid starter but has the potential to blow up. A guy like Yi would be intriguing here.


Hibbert has really impressed me, so much that I think it would a difficult decision between he and Hawes if both were available at our pick.

He definately is a project, but one that should be able to produce his rookie year (i.e. if we take him, he should definately be our backup Center behind Wallace). He should also complement Wallace and Tyrus both because he is pretty good in the pick and roll and has nice touch out to about 15-17 feet.

Hibbert strikes me as a taller Bogut that isn't as good a passer (definately not a detriment, however) but better in the post.


----------



## darlets

Rhyder said:


> Hibbert has really impressed me, so much that I think it would a difficult decision between he and Hawes if both were available at our pick.
> 
> He definately is a project, but one that should be able to produce his rookie year (i.e. if we take him, he should definately be our backup Center behind Wallace). He should also complement Wallace and Tyrus both because he is pretty good in the pick and roll and has nice touch out to about 15-17 feet.
> 
> Hibbert strikes me as a taller Bogut that isn't as good a passer (definately not a detriment, however) but better in the post.


The big guy showing some touch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH5_Z8Ae3K8&


----------



## yodurk

Physically speaking, Hibbert reminds me of Brendan Haywood. They also have/had similar college numbers if I recall. I guess one difference is that Haywood is lousy with the ball in his hands, whereas Hibbert is a pretty decent passer and can hit FT's and the occaisonal mid-range shot.

It's basically a done deal that Hibbert's a role player in the NBA (not sure if he's a career backup or starter material). I do think Hawes WILL be a starter, and Hawes has more upside. I'd probably take Hawes if he's there. But I wouldn't mind Hibbert to fill a size need. I hear he's a hard worker and is obviously a team player, so I'm sure he'd fit our squad nicely.

Edit: And while I'm posting here, it really just hit me how unbelievably pathetic it is that the Knicks are still in the playoff hunt. Anybody who's 10 games under .500 at ANY point in the season should not be anywhere near the playoffs.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the Knicks when (at this point its looking more and more like when and not if) they get mathmatically eliminated from the playoffs.

Do they quit for the season and go through the motions or do they keep hustling to do their best to play spoiler for the pick swap position?


----------



## The ROY

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> It'll be interesting to see what happens with the Knicks when (at this point its looking more and more like when and not if) they get mathmatically eliminated from the playoffs.
> 
> Do they quit for the season and go through the motions or do they keep hustling to do their best to play spoiler for the pick swap position?


Nah, they'll definintely play to the end and Zeke will make them play hard even when they are eliminated, he knows what's at stake for us.


----------



## The ROY

step said:


> If we were to trade Deng in a package for Gasol, would we be able to grab an interesting replacement with the pick? We do have Thabo and Tyrus in reserve who can play minutes there, not to mention there are some FA who could potentially fill that role aswell, but I'm still curious to see if it's a viable option?
> 
> One name that stands out to me at the moment is Young, he was high up early on but has slipped down to #9 on nbadraft.net, what are people's view on him (haven't seen him play at all). The range seems to be ideal with the pick, do we have a shot at landing someone decent or should the pick go to Memphis?


Honestly, this may have been the worst freshman season I've ever seen for a player with so much hype. He just looks scared on the court.

I'd take Brewer or Green over him easily.


----------



## The ROY

yodurk said:


> Physically speaking, Hibbert reminds me of Brendan Haywood. They also have/had similar college numbers if I recall. I guess one difference is that Haywood is lousy with the ball in his hands, whereas Hibbert is a pretty decent passer and can hit FT's and the occaisonal mid-range shot.
> 
> It's basically a done deal that Hibbert's a role player in the NBA (not sure if he's a career backup or starter material). I do think Hawes WILL be a starter, and Hawes has more upside. I'd probably take Hawes if he's there. But I wouldn't mind Hibbert to fill a size need. I hear he's a hard worker and is obviously a team player, so I'm sure he'd fit our squad nicely.
> 
> Edit: And while I'm posting here, it really just hit me how unbelievably pathetic it is that the Knicks are still in the playoff hunt. Anybody who's 10 games under .500 at ANY point in the season should not be anywhere near the playoffs.


Maybe folks don't remember but, last season, Roy Hibbert was GARBAGE.

This season, he's improved but he's definintely being overhyped because of Georgetown's run.

Look at him on the floor, he's slow as hell and his offensive game is very mechanical.

I'd much rather have Hawes, he'll be sick....but Hibbert wouldn't be such a bad addition either


----------



## ScottMay

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> It'll be interesting to see what happens with the Knicks when (at this point its looking more and more like when and not if) they get mathmatically eliminated from the playoffs.
> 
> Do they quit for the season and go through the motions or do they keep hustling to do their best to play spoiler for the pick swap position?


They're 2.5 games out of the 7 seed with 10 games to play, and the teams they are trailing are, in a word, wretched. I'd bet a lot of money that the Knicks won't make the playoffs, but I'll also bet that they won't be mathematically elminated until the last weekend of the season.


----------



## ScottMay

The ROY said:


> Maybe folks don't remember but, last season, Roy Hibbert was GARBAGE.
> 
> This season, he's improved but he's definintely being overhyped because of Georgetown's run.
> 
> Look at him on the floor, he's slow as hell and his offensive game is very mechanical.
> 
> I'd much rather have Hawes, he'll be sick....but Hibbert wouldn't be such a bad addition either


Well, today'll be a nice test of Hibbert's mettle. If he can get some stuff done vs. Oden, I'll ramp up my opinion of him accordingly.


----------



## rwj333

If Hibbert plays well against Oden, he'll play himself out of our draft slot. But if he sucks, then we might not pick him. Either way we get screwed.


----------



## yodurk

rwj333 said:


> If Hibbert plays well against Oden, he'll play himself out of our draft slot. But if he sucks, then we might not pick him. Either way we get screwed.


Hibbert's really having a great game. You can tell that Oden has never played a guy that big before. Both are in foul trouble, but Hibbert's won the individual battle so far (though it looks like OSU will win this).

I don't think it's a bad thing, honestly. This might be just enough to elevate him over Hawes, and personally I'd rather have Hawes. Most scouts have probably forgotten Hawes even exists right now.


----------



## darlets

yodurk said:


> Hibbert's really having a great game. You can tell that Oden has never played a guy that big before. Both are in foul trouble, but Hibbert's won the individual battle so far (though it looks like OSU will win this).
> 
> I don't think it's a bad thing, honestly. This might be just enough to elevate him over Hawes, and personally I'd rather have Hawes. Most scouts have probably forgotten Hawes even exists right now.


If we're picking 10 then we're probably going to get the big that others think are less worthy. It comes down to Paxson getting his guy, and maybe he'll package next years pick to move up a spot or two.

Is it just me, or does number 10 seem to be the lowest we can go and still grab a big guy???? Maybe someone will catapult themselves up into the top ten and push a big down a spot. But yeah I wouldn't want N.Y to finish 12th last.

---------------------
Oden's team won. He gets to play in the championship game. If his team wins it surely his one and done????



yodurk said:


> You can tell that Oden has never played a guy that big before.


 The money aside, this is why I think Oden should come to the N.B.A. His only going to be challenge a handful of times a season.
I think one year is enough for bigs in College.


----------



## giusd

Knicks totally falling apart tonight. They were up 21 to 11 when NO went on a 40 to 15 run and it is 51 to 36 and except for EC they look really bad. This is their 3 game in four nights and it shows. if the knicks no to 31 and 42 with nine games left they are DONE. They will be three games out of the 8th seed with only nine games to play and are 2 and 8 in their last 10 games. It seems to me that this team doesnt really have much left and the knicks will likley end up at something like 34 wins. That sould be good for the 9th pick. Sea is playing great and one of Sac, Minny, or NO will have a better record then the knicks.

I wonder if Hibbert would still be there at 9. He really out played Oden tonight and while he is the athelete that Oden is he has a much better feel for the game than most big men i have seen in college and he is more mobile then he gets credit for. He is kind of low waisted for a big man and because of this i think he seems slower than he really is. Much like Artest who looks slower then he is. Hibbert and TT would make for a super front court for the next ten years.

david


----------



## darlets

giusd said:


> Knicks totally falling apart tonight. They were up 21 to 11 when NO went on a 40 to 15 run and it is 51 to 36 and except for EC they look really bad. This is their 3 game in four nights and it shows. if the knicks no to 31 and 42 with nine games left they are DONE. They will be three games out of the 8th seed with only nine games to play and are 2 and 8 in their last 10 games. It seems to me that this team doesnt really have much left and the knicks will likley end up at something like 34 wins. That sould be good for the 9th pick. Sea is playing great and one of Sac, Minny, or NO will have a better record then the knicks.


Knicks play Philly and Minny next. It likes like though, the teams below them have to win 4 of their last 9-10 and the knicks need to lost 7 of their last 9. 

Every position they finish lower gives us more balls in the lottery, to get one of the top three picks.



giusd said:


> I wonder if Hibbert would still be there at 9. He really out played Oden tonight and while he is the athelete that Oden is he has a much better feel for the game than most big men i have seen in college and he is more mobile then he gets credit for. He is kind of low waisted for a big man and because of this i think he seems slower than he really is. Much like Artest who looks slower then he is. Hibbert and TT would make for a super front court for the next ten years.
> david


Hibbert can actually shoot the ball, which makes his life on offensive a whole lot easier.

You can make your front court for the next decade Hibbert, TT and Deng as they are all about the same age.


----------



## chifaninca

Well, I love Hibbert for our pick, but unless the KNicks choke and the other teams around them go on a run, I don't think he'll be there.


PS - Nate Robinson just hit a 3 with 10 saconds left and it's off to overtime. Deathstick Chandler costs his team with a early lane violation that would've given them 1 extra point. Tyson continues to suck for the Bulls.


----------



## yodurk

Good grief, Knicks...they just hit yet another in their long list of clutch shots. Down by 3 with 10 seconds left, Nate Robinson hits a 3-pointer to send it into OT. Ridiculous.


----------



## yodurk

chifaninca said:


> PS - Nate Robinson just hit a 3 with 10 saconds left and it's off to overtime. Deathstick Chandler costs his team with a early lane violation that would've given them 1 extra point. Tyson continues to suck for the Bulls.


I've kept a running tab in my head of game-tying/game-winning shots the Knicks have had this season. Off hand, I can tell you they've gotten them from Marbury, Crawford, Curry, Robinson, Francis, Richardson, Lee, and Frye, at some point or another. I know for a fact that Marbury, Crawford, and Lee have had multiple instances. Of their 30 wins, at least 10-12 of them have been in this dramatic fashion, which is really an absurd ratio when you think about it.


----------



## chifaninca

It's been interesting watching Chandler v. Curry. Curry has owned it. Curry is a very legit center who IS getting better.


If we land at 7-9 I think we will get a very capable center for the next 7 years.

Hibbert, Hawes, Yi JI, Horford seem to be who we will likely be picking from. Horford is the only guy I wouldn't want (cause he's to small for C).


Corey Brewer from Florida is Dominating tonight as well.


----------



## chifaninca

Chris Paul is a monster. Wins it for Chicago (eerrrrr, the NOK). We needed this to happen. Atleast we get this one.


----------



## yodurk

Thank you, Hornets. OT turned out to be pretty one-sided. Knicks lose.

11 games under .500, with 9 games remaining. Lost 8 of their last 10 (finally, this is the losing streak we've waited all season for). The Nets won today, so the Knicks are now 3 full games out of a playoff spot. That's alot of ground to make up in only 9 games, so it's looking promising.


----------



## darlets

Nicely done Hornets
:clap: :clap: :clap: 

N.Y is alot more resilant than I thought
Got to give them props for that.


----------



## darlets

Floria up by 10 with 1:20 to go.

We'll get to see a Horford/Oden rematch by the looks of things.


----------



## theanimal23

Horford was a rebounding beast today.

What do you guys think of Corey Brewer? Out of curiosity, who is the better talent, him or Thabo? Thabo seems more fluid with his ball-handling, and may be the better pair with Ben G. I wonder how long Brewer's wing-span is. What is Thabo's again? (And Tyrus'?)

I would not mind Hibbert at our pick (12ish), but he seems VERY mechanical. I think he can have a solid NBA career as a rotation player, but far away from being an All-Star. He also seems slow. The question becomes, a young serviceable 7-footer, or taking a guy who has the potential to blow up at a position that is filled by talented players already (SF/SG).

Mike Conley looks like a very solid pro prospect. He's a late lotto pick. 

Sucks that the Sixers lost. We need other teams to catch up while the Knicks lose.


----------



## SALO

theanimal23, 

Thabo has a 7'2" wingspan which is ridiculous for a player his size. Thomas has a 7'3" wingspan. 

I like Horford's game a lot. He has a pro-body already but looking at his frame he could easily add more weight. If he measures 6'10 with shoes I think we could play him at center. I remember he gave Oden fits when Florida played OSU earlier in the season. 

Hibbert is slow. So is Hawes for that matter. I guess I wouldn't mind taking either of them if we're picking 10-15. Maybe we could trade up for Phoenix's pick (via Atlanta) by using Thabo as bait. A lot of teams loved Thabo before the draft, Phoenix was one of them (along with Houston & Utah).


----------



## SALO

Caught the OT session between the Knicks/Hornets and Chandler had a huge block on Marbury to save an easy layup. Kenny Smith said there's only two guys on this planet who could've made that block, and Tyson is one of them. He never said who the other player was, but my first thought was Tyrus. We could've had them both. :-(


----------



## darlets

SALO said:


> theanimal23,
> 
> Thabo has a 7'2" wingspan which is ridiculous for a player his size. Thomas has a 7'3" wingspan.
> 
> I like Horford's game a lot. He has a pro-body already but looking at his frame he could easily add more weight. If he measures 6'10 with shoes I think we could play him at center. I remember he gave Oden fits when Florida played OSU earlier in the season.


We'll get to see what Paxson/Skiles thinks of Thabo. I think they'll give him more time to develop. 

I'd love to get Horford, but.... don't see it happening.

You start getting into a 1 in 25 chance of getting Oden if the Knicks suck enough for the rest of the season.

1. 250 combinations, 25% chance of receiving the #1 pick
2. 199 combinations, 19.9% chance
3. 156 combinations, 15.6% chance
4. 119 combinations, 11.9% chance
5. 88 combinations, 8.8% chance
6. 63 combinations, 6.3% chance
7. 43 combinations, 4.3% chance
8. 28 combinations, 2.8% chance
9. 17 combinations, 1.7% chance
10. 11 combinations, 1.1% chance
11. 8 combinations, 0.8% chance
12. 7 combinations, 0.7% chance
13. 6 combinations, 0.6% chance
14. 5 combinations, 0.5% chance


----------



## rosenthall

theanimal23 said:


> Sucks that the Sixers lost. We need other teams to catch up while the Knicks lose.


I'm itching for a team or two to pass up the Knicks, but I'll take the Sixers losing out to NJ. I think New Jersey winning tonight gives the Knicks about a 10-15% chance that they make the playoffs. 3 games is a wholel ot to make up in the next 9 games.

Ironically, NY's next two games against Philadelphia and Minnesota could be pretty critical to our success next year. Both are within spitting distance of NY, and a win for either of them could catapault us up in the lottery.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

Hibbert _is_ slow but he is the best offensive post threat in this draft outside of Oden 

He has nice hands , has genuine bulk and is a genuine back to the basket player who can pass the ball and hit a face up out to 15ft

His conditioning needs work but he is a reputed worker so perhaps if he is prepared to put in the work he'll be a useful player at the NBA level

I'd give him a go if we're in a position to draft him 

I wonder whether he is quick enough to guard at the next level without picking up cheap fouls ( which he will do a lot of in his first season or two as he makes the adjustment and gets his conditioning right ) 

He won't be a dominant shotblocker IMO but his ability to wrestle bigs and body up in a half court defense is what I like about him 

He's a genuine big

Assuming we miss the lottery my draft board right now for where we will likely be drafting is :

1. Horford
2 Hibbert
3 Noah


If neither of these 3 are available I would try and trade down with Phoenix and take two of 

1. McRoberts
2. Gasol
3. Visser
4. Splitter


----------



## The ROY

Um..u must of forgot about SPencer Hawes..

The BEST scoring C in the entire ncaa...

He's gonna be a MONSTER in the NBA when he puts on weight and learns the game...

Hibbert is going to be a very GOOD back-up C but Hawes is gonna help win championships


----------



## yodurk

theanimal23 said:


> Horford was a rebounding beast today.
> 
> What do you guys think of Corey Brewer? Out of curiosity, who is the better talent, him or Thabo? Thabo seems more fluid with his ball-handling, and may be the better pair with Ben G. I wonder how long Brewer's wing-span is. What is Thabo's again? (And Tyrus'?)


I'm not a Florida fan, and I really don't like Joakim Noah (the more I watch him, the less I like his game). But Horford and Brewer are both very good prospects, IMO. Horford is probably the most skilled/polished big man in the draft; even if he measures in a little short, he's very skilled and athletic. I'm just not sure if we can take him when we already are bringing Tyrus along at the 4. We really need a center who can backup Wallace in the short term, supplement Tyrus in the long term, and give a little offensive punch. (I think Hawes might be the guy, honestly)

As for Corey Brewer, it's hard to compare him with Thabo. Brewer strikes me as a pure 3, whereas Thabo is a 2/1/3. I think Thabo's ceiling is higher with his court vision, passing ability, and ballhandling.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04012007/sports/knicks/zeke_freaks_knicks_marc_berman.htm

ZEKE FREAKS
RIPS REFS AFTER OVERTIME LOSS
By MARC BERMAN

April 1, 2007 -- OKLAHOMA CITY - The Knicks lost another heartbreaker in overtime last night, lost another game in the standings - and an angry Isiah Thomas probably lost a few thousand dollars for a five-minute, unsolicited diatribe criticizing the referees for not giving Stephon Marbury any respect or calls this season on his forays to the basket. 

It was a peculiar time for Thomas to bring up the subject on a night Marbury couldn't shoot a lick because of tired legs in the Knicks' 103-94 loss to the Hornets that dropped them three games behind the eighth seed with nine games left. 

Perhaps Thomas tried to deflect the harsh reality that the Knicks are on the verge of being cooked in the playoff race, falling a season-worst 11 games below .500 (31-42). 

"I've never said this and I've never done this for a player before, but I think there is a point that seriously needs to be made how Marbury is being treated by the officials," Thomas began. 

"I don't understand why a guy who, for all his career, drives to the basket, and I see a lot of other players drive to the basket and get fouled, and I don't understand what he's done to receive the treatment he's getting and the lack of respect that he's getting from the officials." 

On a night Marbury had nothing left in his legs, Eddy Curry carried the Knicks with his graceful low-post game, scoring 34 points with 13 rebounds, and Nate Robinson carried them into overtime with an off-balance, falling-down 3-pointer with 10 seconds left. 

But this two-night road trip had no storybook endings. Thomas knew the Knicks, after their classic battle vs. Dallas on Friday, would not have a full tank going in. So by OT, the Knicks were on fumes and got blasted, the Hornets outscoring them 11-2. 

The Knicks rallied from a 15-point third-quarter hole with a terrific fourth-quarter comeback before getting blown out. Chris Paul had a big overtime as the Hornets scored the first five points, with the Hornets point guard banging in a trey to make it 99-94. 

Coming off a 43-point night, Marbury shot 6 of 20 - 2 of 11 from the 3-point stripe. It's the drives to the bucket that had Thomas outraged and willing to take a league fine for bashing the refs. Thomas said he'll talk to the league to voice his complaints, but the Knicks lead the league in free-throw attempts. 

"That's not why we lost the game," Thomas said. "But moving forward, I would hope that he would be treated just like other star players are treated when they get fouled. He's tough and he can take it, but there's only so much a player can really take before his game is seriously affected." 

Said Marbury: "I'm not getting any Calls. It's just how it's been." 

Asked if he's not getting calls because of the Knicks' state, Marbury said, "It doesn't matter if you're not top 4 of the league, if you go to the basket and get hit, you should get the call. That's equality." 

With 20 seconds left in regulation and the Knicks down 1, Marbury drove the lane and Pargo slapped it away. Thomas wouldn't cite that play. 

"I think you can go back to every single game that we've had this year," Thomas said. "He is officiated differently than the other guards who drive to the basket. 

"And I understand when officials say he initiates the contact. But I see a lot of other players initiate the contact and they go to the foul line. Something ain't right here."


----------



## bullybullz

SALO said:


> Caught the OT session between the Knicks/Hornets and Chandler had a huge block on Marbury to save an easy layup. Kenny Smith said there's only two guys on this planet who could've made that block, and Tyson is one of them. He never said who the other player was, but my first thought was Tyrus. We could've had them both. :-(


Really, I was thinking of Josh Smith or maybe even Marcus Camby/ Dwight Howard.


----------



## The ROY

SALO said:


> theanimal23,
> 
> Thabo has a 7'2" wingspan which is ridiculous for a player his size. Thomas has a 7'3" wingspan.
> 
> I like Horford's game a lot. He has a pro-body already but looking at his frame he could easily add more weight. If he measures 6'10 with shoes I think we could play him at center. I remember he gave Oden fits when Florida played OSU earlier in the season.
> 
> Hibbert is slow. So is Hawes for that matter. I guess I wouldn't mind taking either of them if we're picking 10-15. Maybe we could trade up for Phoenix's pick (via Atlanta) by using Thabo as bait. A lot of teams loved Thabo before the draft, Phoenix was one of them (along with Houston & Utah).


Phoenix may trade those LATE 1sts but no way will they trade a top ten pick....in this draft? not happening


----------



## theanimal23

I absolutely love Horford's game, buy I see Phx taking him at 4. The kid fits very well in their system. I'm not sure if he can hit the long J, but he boards, scores down low, can pass, and is athletic enough to run with them.


----------



## The ROY

Noah's a much better fit for their team..

he starts fastbreaks, often running them himself...blocks, boards, scores easily in transition..

Horford is better suited for a halfcourt team...


----------



## TripleDouble

The ROY said:


> Noah's a much better fit for their team..
> 
> he starts fastbreaks, often running them himself...blocks, boards, scores easily in transition..
> 
> Horford is better suited for a halfcourt team...


Bulls need a bit of bulk up front next to Tyrus. Noah is a twig. And it's not like Harford is Sweetney slow.


----------



## theanimal23

I don't see us being able to trade up to get Horford. I think he is our best option behind Oden and Durant. You can argue that Wright is a better option than Horford. 

It all depends what Phoenix is looking for to move down. Would Thabo be enough? I don't know. He hasn't proven much yet. But will they take him based on his potential? 

Could do we do something like this: The Atlanta pick, plus one of Phoenix's late picks for the NYK, Thabo, and next year's 1st?

We pick up Horford, who I think would be a great fit for our team. If he is 6'10, and Tyrus, who is long as hell and might be 6'10 (He was taller when standing next to Luol yesterday), we get a freaskishly athletic 4 + 5 combo which can rebound, play D, and have the ability to finish. Horford is the more polished player, but teams would be scared of doubling our guards up top.

Thabo has all the tools to be special. I figured he was a darkhorse this year for ROY of the year running due to his Euro presence. I was wrong. Can he bounce back? Maybe. He would be amazing in Phoenix though. But I don't see Phoenix easily giving up a 4th pick for 2 late lotto picks (Thabo and NYK). 

The ESPN Podcast had an interesting scenario: Would Phx be able to move up with Marion and the 4th to get Durant? Is Boston is that Win now mode due to Pierce? It's interesting. I don't know if anyone does it, but thats some serious value you are getting.

Horford vs Oden. Will be interesting. Both guys are healthy, and we will have a better understanding if Horford can play "Center" in the NBA. Could be a game that solidifies Horford as the 4th pick at worse.


----------



## JeremyB0001

theanimal23 said:


> I don't see us being able to trade up to get Horford. I think he is our best option behind Oden and Durant. You can argue that Wright is a better option than Horford.


Good post. I agree with this. 



theanimal23 said:


> It all depends what Phoenix is looking for to move down. Would Thabo be enough? I don't know. He hasn't proven much yet. But will they take him based on his potential?
> 
> Could do we do something like this: The Atlanta pick, plus one of Phoenix's late picks for the NYK, Thabo, and next year's 1st?


My sense is that Phoenix wouldn't do this. Perhaps if they land around 7 or 8, but I think they'd really like Noah. 



theanimal23 said:


> We pick up Horford, who I think would be a great fit for our team. If he is 6'10, and Tyrus, who is long as hell and might be 6'10 (He was taller when standing next to Luol yesterday), we get a freaskishly athletic 4 + 5 combo which can rebound, play D, and have the ability to finish. Horford is the more polished player, but teams would be scared of doubling our guards up top.


Wow. That suggests Tyrus grew at least an inch this season.



theanimal23 said:


> Thabo has all the tools to be special. I figured he was a darkhorse this year for ROY of the year running due to his Euro presence. I was wrong. Can he bounce back? Maybe. He would be amazing in Phoenix though. But I don't see Phoenix easily giving up a 4th pick for 2 late lotto picks (Thabo and NYK).


I'm surprised Thabo hasn't contributed more. An offseasons worth of work might help and there is a belief that international players struggle in their first NBA seasona and then take a big jump in their second.



theanimal23 said:


> The ESPN Podcast had an interesting scenario: Would Phx be able to move up with Marion and the 4th to get Durant? Is Boston is that Win now mode due to Pierce? It's interesting. I don't know if anyone does it, but thats some serious value you are getting.
> 
> Horford vs Oden. Will be interesting. Both guys are healthy, and we will have a better understanding if Horford can play "Center" in the NBA. Could be a game that solidifies Horford as the 4th pick at worse.


I was surprised Chad didn't shoot the SG down with that scenario. I can't see any team passing on a franchise player for the opportunnity to draft a probable All-Star type player and get an All-Star who will be 29 next season with a big contract. I think the only way a team thinks about doing that is if the player offered is still young and has the chance of being an All-Star, someone like Deng. 

Look at a team like the Cavs. All they did is add LeBron and they're now a near 50 win team. To get to the same place the Bulls had to get Wallace, Gordon, Deng, and Hinrich. If you get a franchise player like Oden or Durant, if you add one other very good player next to them (like Shaq with Wade) you have a good shot at a title. It's really the easier way to build a contender.


----------



## giusd

I think that when looking at the bulls needs and what they can do in the draft to address these we need to think of what we have. For the next 3 years we will have Big Ben up front. Super D with very little O. And TT who i think will be super some day but he will always be further along defensively that offensively. Thus, i would make the case that the bulls need a big man who can can play with his back to the basket and score and defense and rebounding are just less important since TT and BW do this very well. So I think the bulls will make a big play for Hawes who fits are team and teams needs. I would rather have Hibbert but after the way he played Oden i think Hibbert goes before Hawes who i think will be drafted around 8 or 9.

Right now the knicks are right around the 10th pick but Sac, Minny, and especially Sea could easily pass NY who look just about ready for total MELTDOWN. They play Phi, who are playing there best basketball of the season, Minny, who has owned NY and then they have to still play NJ and the bulls. If the knicks can finish 3 and 6 that is 34 wins and that should put them at 9 and i think one of either Hawes or Hibbert will be there.

david


----------



## Da Grinch

chifaninca said:


> It's been interesting watching Chandler v. Curry. Curry has owned it. Curry is a very legit center who IS getting better.
> 
> 
> If we land at 7-9 I think we will get a very capable center for the next 7 years.
> 
> Hibbert, Hawes, Yi JI, Horford seem to be who we will likely be picking from. Horford is the only guy I wouldn't want (cause he's to small for C).
> 
> 
> Corey Brewer from Florida is Dominating tonight as well.



generally if you draft out of the top 6 , your center will not be very good...or he is 20 or younger (meaning project).

just a recent historical fact(last 10 years or so), this year might be different because there really are alot of young bigs , but usually if the guy can play center he moves up into that top 6 area and the guys who just miss it(arajao at 8 foyle at 8 mihm at 7) tend to not be worth it.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

Da Grinch said:


> generally if you draft out of the top 6 , your center will not be very good...or he is 20 or younger (meaning project).
> 
> just a recent historical fact(last 10 years or so), this year might be different because there really are alot of young bigs , but usually if the guy can play center he moves up into that top 6 area and the guys who just miss it(arajao at 8 foyle at 8 mihm at 7) tend to not be worth it.


This does seem to be the way of it historically, Grinch , although I will point out that Amare was taken at #9 , Kaman at 7 ?

Not comparing Kaman to Amare but Kaman is a decent NBA starter

Mihm too. I have always thought Mihm is a way dissed and never recovered from the rap of Magliore making him his boy during draft work outs. I remember watching him on the Cavs when Andre Miller was there and he was never afraid to body up and take contact in the post. Additionally he has always had above average shotblocking skills. Hey - I am not saying he's all of that but I would rate him comparable to Chris Kaman. Had he not been injured Mihm would have continued to start for the Lakers this season. With Bynum's emergence , and Brown's continued development , he will likely be a FA pick up this summer at the MLE and he'll represent decent value at this level in my opinion.

Anyway , back half of the lottery big men not names Amare in the last few years- Diop, Kaman, Pryzibila, Arajuo , Collison , Swift, Jefferson . Am I missing anyone else ?

Some good solid role players there with the odd impact gem like Amare and the emerging Jefferson ( I thought Swift had a good chance too before he went down ) 

I don't think we should expect to land a gem in the #8 to #11 spots (which is where we will likely be ) but we will get a good chance at a solid role playing needs fit.

Oden, Durant and Wright are top 3 and in the current order I would probably put Horford to Milwaukee and Yi to Phoenix

More later


----------



## Frankensteiner

Horford would be a bad fit on the Bulls. We really need someone to play alongside Tyrus, so our pick must be a true C. Horford is purely a PF. 

While Noah is a twig, and wouldn't be ideal, he's still a much better Center prospect than Horford simply based on his height. Hibbert, Hawes, Jianlian, Splitter, and even McRoberts and Gasol would be better picks for the Bulls.


----------



## Da Grinch

SausageKingofChicago said:


> This does seem to be the way of it historically, Grinch , although I will point out that Amare was taken at #9 , Kaman at 7 ?
> 
> Not comparing Kaman to Amare but Kaman is a decent NBA starter
> 
> Mihm too. I have always thought Mihm is a way dissed and never recovered from the rap of Magliore making him his boy during draft work outs. I remember watching him on the Cavs when Andre Miller was there and he was never afraid to body up and take contact in the post. Additionally he has always had above average shotblocking skills. Hey - I am not saying he's all of that but I would rate him comparable to Chris Kaman. Had he not been injured Mihm would have continued to start for the Lakers this season. With Bynum's emergence , and Brown's continued development , he will likely be a FA pick up this summer at the MLE and he'll represent decent value at this level in my opinion.
> 
> Anyway , back half of the lottery big men not names Amare in the last few years- Diop, Kaman, Pryzibila, Arajuo , Collison , Swift, Jefferson . Am I missing anyone else ?
> 
> Some good solid role players there with the odd impact gem like Amare and the emerging Jefferson ( I thought Swift had a good chance too before he went down )
> 
> I don't think we should expect to land a gem in the #8 to #11 spots (which is where we will likely be ) but we will get a good chance at a solid role playing needs fit.
> 
> Oden, Durant and Wright are top 3 and in the current order I would probably put Horford to Milwaukee and Yi to Phoenix
> 
> More later


kaman was picked 6th 1 spot ahead of kirk in 2003.

amare is really a 4 , but in pho. where they play smallball he plays center ,but on most teams i think we know he is a power forward....every1 else you named was a project or a 4 .

my point is essentially the same as yours , outside the top 6 historically if you are picking a center you either have a weak player or a player who starts out weak and eventually becomes good with some patience, but no one thats likely to be of help next year possibly the next few,...if a center is really that good he will be picked sooner , so the bulls will have to trade up unless they get in the top 3 or unless the bad teams in the league suddenly become good teams and the knicks pick will have to drop quite a bit for hopes to go up on a real ceneter to help out soon.


----------



## The ROY

Frankensteiner said:


> Horford would be a bad fit on the Bulls. We really need someone to play alongside Tyrus, so our pick must be a true C. Horford is purely a PF.
> 
> While Noah is a twig, and wouldn't be ideal, he's still a much better Center prospect than Horford simply based on his height. Hibbert, Hawes, Jianlian, Splitter, and even McRoberts and Gasol would be better picks for the Bulls.


I'd love having a Noah/Thomas future frontcourt. They're both defensive BEASTS, both rack up a bunch of steals and blocks and both provide a ton of energy.

C Noah
F Thomas
F Deng
G Gordon
G Hinrich

= :clap:


----------



## yodurk

The ROY said:


> I'd love having a Noah/Thomas future frontcourt. They're both defensive BEASTS, both rack up a bunch of steals and blocks and both provide a ton of energy.
> 
> C Noah
> F Thomas
> F Deng
> G Gordon
> G Hinrich
> 
> = :clap:


I'm not quite feeling it with Noah, but fortunately it'll be irrelevant because he's probably gone when we pick. He'd be a bargain at the 9th pick. Even so, him and Tyrus strike me as being very redundant, with Noah being very limited on the offensive end. Noah's shot mechanics scare the crap out of me, whereas Tyrus has pretty nice form on his shot with a soft touch.


----------



## giusd

Also,

It is my understanding that tihs is considered one of the deepest drafts in recent history with a ton of good big men so i am not sure the big in the top six picks really applies. I think this year with all the bigs a quality big man will be there at 9.

david


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

SausageKingofChicago said:


> This does seem to be the way of it historically, Grinch , although I will point out that Amare was taken at #9 , Kaman at 7 ?
> 
> Not comparing Kaman to Amare but Kaman is a decent NBA starter
> 
> Mihm too. I have always thought Mihm is a way dissed and never recovered from the rap of Magliore making him his boy during draft work outs. I remember watching him on the Cavs when Andre Miller was there and he was never afraid to body up and take contact in the post. Additionally he has always had above average shotblocking skills. Hey - I am not saying he's all of that but I would rate him comparable to Chris Kaman. Had he not been injured Mihm would have continued to start for the Lakers this season. With Bynum's emergence , and Brown's continued development , he will likely be a FA pick up this summer at the MLE and he'll represent decent value at this level in my opinion.
> 
> Anyway , back half of the lottery big men not names Amare in the last few years- Diop, Kaman, Pryzibila, Arajuo , Collison , Swift, Jefferson . Am I missing anyone else ?
> 
> Some good solid role players there with the odd impact gem like Amare and the emerging Jefferson ( I thought Swift had a good chance too before he went down )
> 
> I don't think we should expect to land a gem in the #8 to #11 spots (which is where we will likely be ) but we will get a good chance at a solid role playing needs fit.
> 
> Oden, Durant and Wright are top 3 and in the current order I would probably put Horford to Milwaukee and Yi to Phoenix
> 
> More later


With Ray Allen ageing and Rashard Lewis likely to leave town - I see the Sonics taking a chance on someone like Rudy Fernandez

Philadelphia takes Joakim Noah if he's on the board 

Portland takes Corey Brewer or Jeff Green 

Sacramento goes big and I wouldn't be surprised to see them take Josh McRoberts

That likely leaves a choice of Hibbert or Hawes when we pick . Of the two I would be inclined to go with Hibbert who is likely the better "body up" defender of the pair who still has some capacity to score on this level 

He will be a project though and will have trouble staying on the floor. At a guess he will need at least a good few years which should dovetail into the end of Ben Wallace's contract.


----------



## JeremyB0001

Frankensteiner said:


> Horford would be a bad fit on the Bulls. We really need someone to play alongside Tyrus, so our pick must be a true C. Horford is purely a PF.
> 
> While Noah is a twig, and wouldn't be ideal, he's still a much better Center prospect than Horford simply based on his height. Hibbert, Hawes, Jianlian, Splitter, and even McRoberts and Gasol would be better picks for the Bulls.


The only good player in this draft that is a good fit for the Bulls is Greg Oden. The type of player that we need barely exists in the NBA: an athletic 7 footer who can draw a double team and score reliably in the post. Hibbert and Hawes can't run with our team, Yi will never be a 5, Splitter doesn't provide a ton of offense, McRoberts and Gasol figure to go a good while after the Bulls pick. Horford is likely never going to be a legit C but he scores in the post very well and he's athletic enough to get up and down the floor quickly so I'm pretty confident that he's the second best fit for the Bulls after Oden. It's all academic though since we won't have a chance to draft either.


----------



## Frankensteiner

JeremyB0001 said:


> The only good player in this draft that is a good fit for the Bulls is Greg Oden. The type of player that we need barely exists in the NBA: an athletic 7 footer who can draw a double team and score reliably in the post. Hibbert and Hawes can't run with our team, Yi will never be a 5, Splitter doesn't provide a ton of offense, McRoberts and Gasol figure to go a good while after the Bulls pick. Horford is likely never going to be a legit C but he scores in the post very well and he's athletic enough to get up and down the floor quickly so I'm pretty confident that he's the second best fit for the Bulls after Oden. It's all academic though since we won't have a chance to draft either.


PJ Brown is in our rotation right now. If he can run with our team, Hibbert and Hawes should have no problem. I was probably off in saying the Bulls need a true Center, though. What the Bulls need is someone with the height of a true Center. In that case, Jianlian would work fine. The Pistons don't have a true 5 either, yet it's worked out well for them.

I really don't understand the desire to have two 6'9" guys with little bulk as your PF/C combo.


----------



## darlets

Wolves and Pacers both got up.

Come on, cheer on the Sonics and the Kings. :yay: 

Crosses Fingers.


----------



## theanimal23

> "*[His basketball IQ] is as high as anybody I've coached*, and what's rare for a big man is that he knows all five positions," Donovan said. "I can put him anywhere on the floor and he knows what to do. He has great awareness."


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney07/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=2821534&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab2pos2

A while back, RealGM had a story where Vitale accidently spoke on the radio about a conversation with Donovan that was suppose to be confidential. Donovan said that NBA Scouts are making a big mistake if they consider Noah the best player on the team. That Al was going to be a very solid pro player.

Noah has bust written all over him. He's a Ronaldo Balkman getting all this hype because he is the vocal leader of a team that won the championship. He has absolutely nothing to offer in comparison to scrubs in the NBA. He is a rich man's Junk Yard Dog. Slightly more offense. The guy isn't that great. He's SOLID in college because you can get by with all heart and no skill. In the NBA, all heart and no skill won't matter. Same for all skill no heart. You need both. He has shown nothing relative to an offense game.

While I understand we need a CENTER, I won't pick a 7 foot stiff for the sake of picking one. We need post scoring. That is our problem. Not finding a 7 footer who can just stand there and say he is 7 feet tall. 

Outside of Oden and Durant, if you want a polished player who can also play D and rebound like crazy, your man is Al Horford. Hawes may score, but he is a younger, white-man Eddy Curry. His rebounding isn't that great. I don't know about his D. He does have an advanced set of post-moves for his age, but I don't know how great he will be. I haven' seen enough of him to judge that. But, he has a lot more BUST potential than Horford. 

Hibbert is nice, but is extremely slow. He won't be an All-Star but possibly a capable starter. Definitely a solid bench player. But I don't know how well he fits here with his lack of speed and conditioning. He can pass, apparently hit a long J, and has basic scoring moves down low. I'll take that if he is the BPA at 12ish.

But if you really want a post-scoring threat outside of Oden, go with Al Horford. We'll have him and Tyrus who can definitley man up the front. I can sacrifice two inches of height if these guys play with the ability and heart of two 7-foot beasts.

Tomorrow, Horford will prove if he is capable against a 7 footer. Possibly the best since Tim Duncan.


----------



## charlietyra

darlets said:


> Wolves and Pacers both got up.
> 
> Come on, cheer on the Sonics and the Kings. :yay:
> 
> Crosses Fingers.



I got to tell you guys that I saw the TWolves/Magic game and Orlando really is a crummy team. I don't know why they havn't imploded earlier. Even though they may be a couple of games ahead of the Knicks at this time I can't see them in the playoffs. They played Minny at home and still couldn't beat them- and Minny isn't playing well at all.

The only guy I would take on that team is the big guy and perhaps Ariza. Hill is the second best player on the team and he is too old and plays on one leg. Darko really isn't a top notch big man and Nelson is a back-up. Turkolu isn't a starter on a good team either. I don't know how they gave the Bulls fits earlier in the year.


----------



## Fizer Fanatic

I was really happy to see the Indy & Minny wins. The Miami & Cavs losses, coupled with Raptor & Wizard wins was also good from a playoff seeding perspective.

Right now, I believe the PF/C types (counting Durant as a PF) will go as the top 9 picks. You can't teach size, and limited supply of quality bigs makes them valuable. I think draft history supports this view, as does the current mock draft at Draft Express. I could possibly see some of the top teams wanting to trade down to about our area to get a PG (like maybe the Blazers--give 'em Vic back to trade up?--or the Bucks) if they don't find a big they really like at their spot.


----------



## darlets

charlietyra said:


> I got to tell you guys that I saw the TWolves/Magic game and Orlando really is a crummy team. I don't know why they havn't imploded earlier. Even though they may be a couple of games ahead of the Knicks at this time I can't see them in the playoffs. They played Minny at home and still couldn't beat them- and Minny isn't playing well at all.


Lets hope Minny finds some form before the play the knicks.

Fingers crossed for the Philly, Wolves V Knicks games this week.


----------



## The ROY

theanimal23 said:


> Noah has bust written all over him. He's a Ronaldo Balkman getting all this hype because he is the vocal leader of a team that won the championship. He has absolutely nothing to offer in comparison to scrubs in the NBA. He is a rich man's Junk Yard Dog. Slightly more offense. The guy isn't that great. He's SOLID in college because you can get by with all heart and no skill. In the NBA, all heart and no skill won't matter. Same for all skill no heart. You need both. He has shown nothing relative to an offense game.
> .


Wow, I can't agree with this at all. It's pretty easy to see that he has very rare skills for a player 6"11. He'll also be an elite rebounder in the NBA every season due to his awareness of where the ball is supposed to land. His handles are incredible for a guy his height, he leads fastbreaks and can pretty much guard every position on the court. He'll also be one of the best passing bigman in the NBA.

Is he great? nah, but he won't be anywhere near a bust.


----------



## theanimal23

Ok he might not be a bust that he will be out of the league, but he won't be anything more than a role player. To pick a guy that high who is going to be a role player, it makes no sense. Battier is a role player, but a better all around player than Noah will ever be. And taking him 6th, some people might question. Just saying.

But I'm still sticking with my, he's a rich man's Balkman. I'm happy he didn't come out last year. Pax would have taken him over Tyrus.

It wouldn't surprise me if Phoenix picked him, or say Seattle or Portland. But don't expect an All-Star in JNoah.


----------



## step

> It wouldn't surprise me if Phoenix picked him, or say Seattle or Portland. But don't expect an All-Star in JNoah.


It would surprise me if Seattle did, they already have a tonne of big men (albeit injured) and the looming threat of losing Lewis in FA means they'll need to find a replacement quickly.


----------



## darlets

The ROY said:


> Wow, I can't agree with this at all. It's pretty easy to see that he has very rare skills for a player 6"11. He'll also be an elite rebounder in the NBA every season due to his awareness of where the ball is supposed to land. His handles are incredible for a guy his height, he leads fastbreaks and can pretty much guard every position on the court. He'll also be one of the best passing bigman in the NBA.
> 
> Is he great? nah, but he won't be anywhere near a bust.


He'll be good as long as his used right and finds the right home. Stick him in the high post, let him receive the ball and find cutters or drive. Unfortuantely his jumpshot sucks, otherwise he be really devastating in the high post. People will lay off him to guard against his drive and he should be able to carve people up with his passing.

The only way he'll be a bust is if someone tries to turn him into a bump and grind post up player.


Saying all that I'd take Horford.


----------



## kulaz3000

Butler of the Wizards fractured his hand in tonight win.



> "That's a blow," Arenas said. "You never want an injury as you're getting ready for the playoffs. To see him go down with an injury like that is hurtful."
> 
> Butler wasn't optimistic about returning this season.
> 
> "Second round, third round (of the playoffs), a possibility," Butler said after the game, his hand in a cast. "But right now, I probably won't have a jersey on until next year."



http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2007040115&prov=ap

A possible matchup with the Wizards seems a little more promising.


----------



## laso

Here's another way to look at this draft if we end up between 8 to 12. If the big guys go early, we may find a real good guard hanging there. Rather than taking a chance on a second rate big, why not try for Acie Law, Mike Conley Jr. (how can you not love that guy?) or even Corey Brewer. I know these guys don't necessarily fill an immediate need, but I wouldn't mind a backup guard who's a real threat.


----------



## kulaz3000

laso said:


> Here's another way to look at this draft if we end up between 8 to 12. If the big guys go early, we may find a real good guard hanging there. Rather than taking a chance on a second rate big, why not try for Acie Law, Mike Conley Jr. (how can you not love that guy?) or even Corey Brewer. I know these guys don't necessarily fill an immediate need, but I wouldn't mind a backup guard who's a real threat.


Im a real fan of Corey Brewer. He is going to be a great player one day.. The only thing that his missing right now is a jump shot, or a consistent one, and thats probably the most easiest thing to learn on any off season. I think he could be as good as Iggy..

If we're in a position to draft Brewer, i would love for him to be on this team. Though i still love the potential of Thabo, id be more than willing to trade him somewhere else if we do get Brewer..


----------



## The ROY

theanimal23 said:


> Battier is a role player, but a better all around player than Noah will ever be.


ehhh, that's pushing it. Battier is a good role player but he IS forgettable. Joakaim Noah actually impacts and changes the flow of the game on both ends of the floor. Not many players his size can do what he does. If Tyson Chandler is a top 10 center, Joakim will definintely be in that mix also. I actually see him being a much better NBA player than college player.


----------



## theanimal23

To the guys who mentioned Brewer and Conley, I agree with you. Go with the BPA. Don't pick a 7 foot stiff for the sake of picking one. If you think the C/PF will be good, then get him. Otherwise go BPA and use someone as trade bait later.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

Shane Battier is all NBA 1st team D 

At least he should be

He is THE best defender of the big guard /forward combos in the league right now

Full stop. End of story. 

Was he worth a 6th pick ?

Yes.

Was he worth giving up Rudy Gay for ?

Yes. On the basis that the Rockets have a chance to be contending for a ring now and over the next few years whilst the Grizz will likely drag along the bottom for a while yet.

It was a move that made a lot of sense for the Rox

OT : How can you not love Chuck Hayes ?


----------



## chifaninca

Before we go with BPA, and only Brewer gets my consideration for that vote over Hawes or Hibbert. Nah, Hibbert and Hawes win for me.

Keep this in mind: This is likely to be our last top 15 pick for 5-7 years. Any potential Center player is gonna be a lesser player than Hibbert or Hawes IMHO. So is Brewer that much better?  I don't think so, plus I see Seattle snagging him.

Again, we are talking about having someone keep the other team honest ont he offensive side and stick with his man on the defensive (when Wallace needs a spell).

Now, if you knew you could sign a healthy Mihm to the MLE I might listen, but you have two problems.Come draft night, you won't know if you can get him to be a Bull and you won't know if he's healthy.

Sorry, We have ONE major weakness and the ability to address it.

I know alot of you are still hoping for 5 duhon's but the days of 17 wins and "next year we can address our weaknesses" is over.

We are rapidly becoming a Championship caliber team. Corey Brewer and Malik Allen coming off our bench isn't gonna make the same difference that Andres Nocioni and Roy Hibbert are.


----------



## darlets

I would guess Paxson would be willing to give away next years pick to move up a spot or two to nab his guy (assuming he finds a willing trading partner). 

Draftexpress has the top 9 bigs being picked 1 through 9, and nbadraft has them all gone by the 10th pick. Someone would have to sky rocket into the top ten, which can happen, but I think that will just force another big down to us to choose from.

I can't see us not taking a big unless they're all gone or Paxson really hates who's left. 

But when we win the lottery it won't matter, we'll just take Oden anyway.


----------



## The ROY

1. Oden (may not declare)
2. Durant (may not declare)
3. Wright (may not declare)
4. Noah
5. Horford
6. Jianlian
7. Hibbert (may not declare)
8. Hawes (may not declare)
9. Splitter
10. McRoberts

Top 10 big's

We'll be able to land atleast ONE of these guys. If all of these cats don't declare, expect Conley, Green & Brewer to land in the top 10-12 also.


----------



## step

> We'll be able to land atleast ONE of these guys.


If things stay as they are now (10th pick), I'd pass on McRoberts and just go the BPA.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

Assuming they are not in picks 1 through to 4 the teams that will likely be in front of us , that I can't see taking a big are Seattle and Portland 

Seattle are covered upfront with enough young projects and I see them looking for the best shooter/scorer available which may be Rudy Fernandez

Jeff Green makes sense for Portland when you consider that Pryzibilla, Randolph , Aldridge and Lafrentz will suck up the majority of the minutes ( and they have big time remaining commitments to all players )Green is a nice complement to Outlaw, Roy, Webster, Jack and Sergio Rodriguez. *Moving Darius Miles for Jared Jeffries and Randolph Morris may make some sense*

Eddy, Miles, Q and Jamal . Let the good times roll.

With all of the other teams that are there , or that will be there , before us - they will all go big . Realistically , the only players that I see who may qualify as BPA are Mike Conley Jr and Corey Brewer

Then there are the Euro wild cards in Tomic and Ajinca - but I kind of figure them to be mid to late 1st round picks if they declare

I can't see a lottery pick being burnt on Thabeet - he probably needs to stick with Jim Calhoun for another year or two.

*HOT DRAFT DAY TIP

KG gets dealt to Phoenix for Phoenix's draft ( #5, #24 ,#29 and #59) and take back expiring contracts in Kurt Thomas and Eric Piatowski and the term contract of Marcus Banks 

*


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

step said:


> If things stay as they are now (10th pick), I'd pass on McRoberts and just go the BPA.


McRoberts may well be the BPA when you consider the structure of our team and the type of player with a skillset that complements what we'ce already got . I honestly think he would eventually look great next to Tyrus


----------



## step

> McRoberts may well be the BPA when you consider the structure of our team


When you're looking at the structure of a team you're not looking for the best player available anymore, you're looking at a need.



> I honestly think he would eventually look great next to Tyrus


I hope you're right, because the thought of McRoberts in a Bulls jersey makes me retch.


----------



## step

> HOT DRAFT DAY TIP
> 
> KG gets dealt to Phoenix for Phoenix's draft ( #5, #24 ,#29 and #59) and take back expiring contracts in Kurt Thomas and Eric Piatowski and the term contract of Marcus Banks


Won't work, Phoenix needs to add about $7M more to make it happen. Replace Thomas with Marion and it's fine.

I'd have to wonder if the hole on the wing would change the outlook of free agency.


----------



## JeremyB0001

Frankensteiner said:


> PJ Brown is in our rotation right now. If he can run with our team, Hibbert and Hawes should have no problem. I was probably off in saying the Bulls need a true Center, though. What the Bulls need is someone with the height of a true Center. In that case, Jianlian would work fine. The Pistons don't have a true 5 either, yet it's worked out well for them.
> 
> I really don't understand the desire to have two 6'9" guys with little bulk as your PF/C combo.


The only guy with a more NBA ready body than Horford in this draft is Oden; he has plenty of bulk. I don't understand why we need someone with the height to match up with a teams center but not the size. Yi is compared to Bargnani, he won't do a ton of scoring in the post and will not have the muscle to guard someone like Howard let alone Oden. What happened to everyone moaning that this team will never be a true title contender without someone who can score in the post? 

Also, P.J. has been putrid this season, I wouldn't use him as the standard by which we draft our front court player of the future.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

step said:


> Won't work, Phoenix needs to add about $7M more to make it happen. Replace Thomas with Marion and it's fine.
> 
> I'd have to wonder if the hole on the wing would change the outlook of free agency.



Not so 

KT and Pike combine for $9.5M in expiring salary

Banks is $3.5M 

The draft picks ( signed ) get it over the line 

Be kind of like a SAR/PAU trade that wasn't officially consumated until after July 1st 

Minny could use their #12 to combine with #24 and #29 ( from the Phoenix slew ) to move up and claim say Seattle's say #7 

Seattle comes out of the draft with #12 , #24 and #29 where they could nab Brewer, Almond and Visser in addition to picks #31 and #36 in the 2nd round

Minny come out of the draft with #5 and #7 but minus KG . Could they put Noah and Horford together and form a key young core of Noah, Horford and Foye supported by Blount, Davis , Hassell , Jaric and Hudson ?


----------



## The ROY

step said:


> If things stay as they are now (10th pick), I'd pass on McRoberts and just go the BPA.


Honestly, I don't think McRoberts has much of a chance of landing on the Bulls anyway. I, for one, would hate having him on the team.

As far as that other comment, Tyrus doesn't even RESPECT McRoberts so I'd have a hard time seeing them playing together lol.


----------



## step

> The draft picks ( signed ) get it over the line


It would be quite a risky move for the Suns though, choosing who Minny want without any insurance that they won't back out.

Honestly don't see them doing the move though, this is the same team that tried to ship Marion off to cut costs.


----------



## The ROY

Thaddeus Young is REPORTEDLY declaring for the draft.

Bad move IMO, he did nothing but hurt his stock all season and ESPECIALLY in the first round.

Oh well

Haseem Thabeet will be returning to UConn which is very good for him, he's not ready what-so-ever.


----------



## step

> Haseem Thabeet will be returning to UConn which is very good for him, he's not ready what-so-ever.


He's valuable as the project guy that one team above us will fall in love with. I was really liking nbadraft.net's mock. Had Thabeet at 9 to the Kings, Hawes at 10 to us.


----------



## The ROY

Hawes is leaning towards declaring.

Hansborough is returning for his junior year.

Mike Conley Jr. says he's coming back regardless of if Oden declares or not.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

The ROY said:


> Hawes is leaning towards declaring.
> 
> Hansborough is returning for his junior year.
> 
> Mike Conley Jr. says he's coming back regardless of if Oden declares or not.


I know this was news a few days back, but it's a shame that Julian Wright didn't enter the draft. A lot of mocks had him going before pick #10, though personally I'm not a big fan. Anyway, he could have pushed a player we might have liked one pick down to us.


----------



## theanimal23

I still like Horford, but man it's not even possible to imagine him as a small Center. Zo is 6'10" and Horford is listed as 6'10, but definitely doesn't play like a center. He's a PF. We got Tyrus. I like Horford a lot, but man Oden is just owning him. Oden is having a hell of a game. Blocking everyone and dunking on everyone. He's just so much bigger in comparison to the competition.

Horford has shown nice dribbing skills and speed. Noah has played well too. He can score down low and might be decent if he develops a J.

The players of the games so far are Brewer and Oden. Brewer's length is unbelieveable on the perimeter. He's 3 out 4 from downtown. Made some steals that led to dunks. Had an unbelieveable weakside block in the 1st Qtr. Came out of no where to block it against the backboard.


----------



## RoRo

lee humphrey is saving the day. 
everytime ohio gets it 8 or under he pops a three.


----------



## TripleDouble

Noah is one of the most overrated prospects in recent memory. He's horrible.


----------



## RoRo

richards looked good using his strength to his advantage. 
if you can't get pure hieght, go strong and athletic.
maybe he'll declare


----------



## DaBullz

Does Oden declare? If he wants the big bucks quick, yep If he wants to win the NCAA tourny he has to go back for at least another year.


----------



## theanimal23

Oden, what a beast. Especially on D. 

Hoping for a miracle, can you imagine teams trying to go inside on Tyrus and Oden and Wallace!

Horford came around near the end, but not sure if he can play Center. Definitely PF. 

Brewer looked good.

Humphrey saved the Gators.


----------



## theanimal23

How about Richards with a 2nd rounder?


----------



## JeremyB0001

Here's hoping that Brewer's big game improves his stock enough that a big man falls to us.


----------



## darlets

DaBullz said:


> Does Oden declare? If he wants the big bucks quick, yep If he wants to win the NCAA tourny he has to go back for at least another year.


One of his team mates let slip today that he Oden was going. Then quickly corrected himself.

I can't find a link to the article though


----------



## RoRo

oops!



> "It will be very hard when Greg's not here next year,'' Conley said. Then he quickly amended the statement. "If he's not here next year.''


----------



## RoRo

and some Marc Gasol v Tiago Splitter


----------



## Frankensteiner

RoRo said:


> and some Marc Gasol v Tiago Splitter


That was a really nice video and after watching, I think it reflects well on Gasol (although I like Splitter as well).

Here's another on just Gasol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKJXWH7HS3g&mode=related&search=

I came away impressed with him after watching those two videos. He doesn't seem to be a great athlete but I could see him as a good fit alongside Wallace and Thomas. Really, it's about getting a guy to add some complimentary skills to what we already have (this is perhaps why I'm higher on McRoberts than most).


----------



## RoRo

Frankensteiner said:


> That was a really nice video and after watching, I think it reflects well on Gasol (although I like Splitter as well).
> 
> Here's another on just Gasol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKJXWH7HS3g&mode=related&search=
> 
> I came away impressed with him after watching those two videos. He doesn't seem to be a great athlete but I could see him as a good fit alongside Wallace and Thomas. Really, it's about getting a guy to add some complimentary skills to what we already have (this is perhaps why I'm higher on McRoberts than most).


bien bien bien!

both guys look pretty good. gasol has some big ol guns on him. 
and he knows how to use'em.

wasn't the big round guy sophocles shortanitis (sp?) the next shaq hehe.


----------



## JeremyB0001

Frankensteiner said:


> That was a really nice video and after watching, I think it reflects well on Gasol (although I like Splitter as well).


Neither impressed me a ton. Gasol looks very skilled but lumbering. He's on the first round bubble for the same reason as Aaron Gray I imagine; a skilled player with great size can play very well against good but not great competition while the big men in the NBA are much more athletic.

I've seen some footage of Splitter before but this is the first time I've every really understood the knock on him. Assuming the scouts are correct that his game hasn't improved all that much the past few seasons, I can understand where they're coming from. He looks to be quick and coordinated for a player his size so I can understand why scouts would drool over an 18 year old with that skillset with the expectation that he'd put on muscle and gain the ability to bully guys in the post. Now that he's 22 and still relying on finess moves to score in the post, the odds that he'll be able to hold his own in the post against 5s in the NBA seem slim.


----------



## TripleDouble

Gasol hardly gets off the ground and has a low release on his shot. He's going to get blocked a lot in the pros. Splitter looks like a nice role player, but probably won't be a big offensive threat.


----------



## chifaninca

We don't need a "big" offensive threat, we just need a consistent threat. No, Malik Allen doesn't qualify. Wallace has ZERO offensive game, unless left completely unguarded (and teams have tried that). TT or PJ are just not there. TT is developing and an off-season could do wonders for him. that's why I want to grab someone who can spell Wallace and be enough of a threat offensively, hold their own defensively to give our team some balance. Gordon can't hit 20 threes and Deng can't shoot 60% every night.

Gasol would be tremendous value end of first, early second. Splitter is mid 1st. No surprises. We need someone 6'10+ who can back up both the C and PF position. However, if we resign Nocioni, we really just need that person to play about 14-20 minutes a night at C.


----------



## JeremyB0001

chifaninca said:


> We don't need a "big" offensive threat, we just need a consistent threat. No, Malik Allen doesn't qualify. Wallace has ZERO offensive game, unless left completely unguarded (and teams have tried that). TT or PJ are just not there. TT is developing and an off-season could do wonders for him. that's why I want to grab someone who can spell Wallace and be enough of a threat offensively, hold their own defensively to give our team some balance. Gordon can't hit 20 threes and Deng can't shoot 60% every night.
> 
> Gasol would be tremendous value end of first, early second. Splitter is mid 1st. No surprises. We need someone 6'10+ who can back up both the C and PF position. However, if we resign Nocioni, we really just need that person to play about 14-20 minutes a night at C.


Maybe he can be a bit less of a liability in other areas, but I doubt that Gasol can be a more consistent post threat on offense than Sweetney. Guys like that are coveted so much that if scouts thought he'd do that, he would be securely in the first round. Someone who can play 14-20 good minutes at night at C will be difficult to come by but I'll be we can find someone of the P.J./Malik/Sweets calliber who's a few inches taller via free agency or with a second rounder if we get really lucky. The guys you'd envision as a good backup C are players like Nesterovic or Haywood are starters because mediocre 5s are so hard to come by.

I'd say the odds are very high that we don't acquire a post player in the offseason who sniffs Tyrus' 15 points per 40. There just aren't many scoring big men in the NBA.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baske...pr04,0,1844335.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines

Isiah pays for his rant at refs
For criticizing officials, league hits Thomas with a $50,000 fine
BY ALAN HAHN
[email protected]


April 4, 2007

GREENBURGH, N.Y. -- Isiah Thomas said he hoped to make a point by speaking out about his perceived lack of respect that NBA referees have for Stephon Marbury. The NBA made its own point yesterday by slapping Thomas with a hefty $50,000 fine for his comments, which suggested Marbury is "officiated differently than the other guards who drive to the basket ... Something ain't right here."

It's Thomas' first fine of the season, though he has tiptoed the line a few times. In November, he got into an altercation with San Antonio Spurs guard Bruce Bowen and in December, there was the infamous "Don't go to the basket" warning to Denver Nuggets star Carmelo Anthony moments before the brawl at Madison Square Garden.

Unlike those situations, Thomas' intentions were indisputable when he used his postgame address after Saturday's overtime loss to the Hornets in Oklahoma City as a forum for Marbury's case.

The fine is the highest levied on a coach this season. In November, Lakers coach Phil Jackson was hit with a $25,000 fine for criticizing officiating. The NBA hit Jackson again (and the Lakers) last month with $50,000 for criticizing the NBA's treatment of Kobe Bryant, who was twice suspended for hitting a defender while following through on his jump shot.

After practice yesterday and before the NBA announced the fine, Thomas said playing the advocate role for his players is "one of the job responsibilities I feel the coach should have and take on ... My coaches did it for me, whether it be coach [Bob] Knight or coach [Chuck] Daly. They spoke out for me."

Thomas lobbied the NBA earlier this season to take a closer look at how they are officiating Eddy Curry. Thomas said he sent video to the league about Curry's game and throughout the season it seemed to work. Curry started getting the benefit of fouls called on defenders who were overly physical with him. Thomas was asked if he had done the same for Marbury.

"I don't think this is an issue that should really be played out in public," Thomas said. "I've said what I've had to say and I don't think I need to elaborate on what goes on inside or conversations that have taken place."

Marbury wasn't available yesterday to comment. After the game Saturday, he said he appreciated Thomas speaking up for him.

"What happened is something we've got to deal with and that's it," Marbury said. "There's really nothing to say about it. It is what it is."

Marbury drives to the basket enough to earn trips to the foul line and this season he is averaging 5.2 free-throw attempts per game, which ranks 38th in the NBA but is slightly lower than his career average of 5.8 attempts per game. His career high is 7.2 a game in 1999-2000 with the Nets. His Knicks high is 6.6 per game, which came in 2004-05.

Notes & quotes: Tonight is critical for the Knicks (31-42), who host the 76ers at the Garden and are 2 1/2 games behind the Orlando Magic for the final playoff spot in the East. The Magic (34-40) hosts the Toronto Raptors. The Knicks own the tiebreaker (season series) against the Magic ... Steve Francis said his sprained ankle is "feeling better" but he won't play tonight. Francis has been riding a stationary bike and shooting free throws and Thomas said he hoped to have the veteran guard back for games against Minnesota on Friday and Milwaukee on Saturday. Francis said he'll see how he feels. "If I feel better," he said, "I'll definitely go out there and play."


----------



## superdave

Knicks 2-8 since Isiah rec'd his extension.


----------



## Frankensteiner

You guys complaining about Gasol's athleticism must be traumatized when looking at players like Kristic, Brezec, or Brad Miller. How many athletic centers in the league have Gasol's size and skill level? I can think of Duncan and Bogut, but after that?

Take Chris Webber, who has basically nothing left athletically, yet still makes a positive contribution to his team based on his skills and basketball IQ. I think Gasol doesn't need to have tremendous athleticism to succeed here.

Given next season's Bulls big man rotation of Wallace, Noc, and Thomas, Gasol would provide some complimentary attributes, namely height (7'0"), bulk (270), and post skills. On his profile, I noticed he went to high school in Memphis so perhaps the transition to the US won't be as problematic as for other European players. I could really see him moving up the draft, and I doubt he'll be much of a reach at our spot.


----------



## JeremyB0001

Frankensteiner said:


> You guys complaining about Gasol's athleticism must be traumatized when looking at players like Kristic, Brezec, or Brad Miller. How many athletic centers in the league have Gasol's size and skill level? I can think of Duncan and Bogut, but after that?
> 
> Take Chris Webber, who has basically nothing left athletically, yet still makes a positive contribution to his team based on his skills and basketball IQ. I think Gasol doesn't need to have tremendous athleticism to succeed here.
> 
> Given next season's Bulls big man rotation of Wallace, Noc, and Thomas, Gasol would provide some complimentary attributes, namely height (7'0"), bulk (270), and post skills. On his profile, I noticed he went to high school in Memphis so perhaps the transition to the US won't be as problematic as for other European players. I could really see him moving up the draft, and I doubt he'll be much of a reach at our spot.


I think it's easier to look unathletic playing against Dwight Howard or Ben Wallace than against Tiago Splitter. I'm fond of talking about how the Euroleague is the second best level of competition in the world but there's still a large gap between the athleticism and speed in the NBA game. If a guy looks a bit plodding against Euroleague competition he'll look quite slow in the NBA. If you're insinuating that Kristic, Brezec, and Miller are less atheletic than Gasol then I definitely disagree. If you're just suggesting they're as unathletic, then I probably also disagree. I can remember Miller getting off the floor reasonably well for a 7 foot white guy when I saw him in college. I haven't seen Brezec much but Kristic seems wiry and decently quick for a 7 footer.


----------



## kulaz3000

Knicks are going to go 31-43 in a few seconds. They are making it so difficult... they just won't go down easily against anyone. Just lose already...


----------



## yodurk

kulaz3000 said:


> Knicks are going to go 31-43 in a few seconds. They are making it so difficult... they just won't go down easily against anyone. Just lose already...


No kidding! I turned on the boxscore to the tune of a 90-83 deficit with only 47 seconds left. Then Marbury hits a 3, they steal the ball for a layup, and Kyle Korver (92% free throw shooter) misses 2 free throws which could've sealed the victory. No matter how improbable, they always make it interesting.


----------



## step

Philly closes it out, woohoo!


----------



## yodurk

Today is turning out to be a great day for the Bulls. We beat an arch rival by alot, Knicks lose, Nets win (basically seals up the 7th seed), and Seattle and the Bobcats both have a chance to catch the Knicks it's looking like.


----------



## charlietyra

yodurk said:


> No kidding! I turned on the boxscore to the tune of a 90-83 deficit with only 47 seconds left. Then Marbury hits a 3, they steal the ball for a layup, and Kyle Korver (92% free throw shooter) misses 2 free throws which could've sealed the victory. No matter how improbable, they always make it interesting.


That is why I have the gut feeling that the Knicks will sneak in. They play hard until the end. I think Orlando and Indy are imploding big time. Again, the Magic lose at home tonight. I know the odds may be against the Knicks but the poor play of the teams ahead of them (except the Nets perhaps) gives them a decent chance IMO.


----------



## yodurk

charlietyra said:


> That is why I have the gut feeling that the Knicks will sneak in. They play hard until the end. I think Orlando and Indy are imploding big time. Again, the Magic lose at home tonight. I know the odds may be against the Knicks but the poor play of the teams ahead of them (except the Nets perhaps) gives them a decent chance IMO.


While strange things like this can happen, it really would be quite a miracle if they made the playoffs. They only have 8 games left, and they need to gain 3 games on the Magic. 

Even if they turn things around and go 5-3 from here out (against a pretty tough schedule), the Magic would need to go 2-5 for them to make it. Seeing how the Magic have home games against both Boston and Memphis coming up, I just don't see it.


----------



## rosenthall

It's the pits that Seattle had to cough up a hard fought game against NO tonight, it looked they were going to pull it off. Winning tonights game would have put them right in the thick of the mid-to-late lottery dogfight that's brewing between Sacramento, Minnesota, New York, and Indiana with Seattle, Philadelphia, and Portland on the fringes. 

It's ironic simultaneously tracking a team at the top and bottom of the standings fighting for position in the opposite directions. It is difficult to make up ground, but for completely opposite reasons. Detroit and Cleveland refuse to let up, where as Indiana and the bottom half of the western division are completely impotent and can't beat a tambourine.

To reinforce my point, I'm watching the Kings get their hinies thoroughly paddiwhacked by the .500 Nuggets, and it makes me queasy about the Knicks moving up into the 7-9 range in the draft.


----------



## giusd

On the bright side it looks like PHL will pass the knicks. They are only one game back and PHL has a pretty easy schedule for the rest of the season while the knicks just look bad and are melting down. They have eight games left and Minny is up next and the knicks have not faired well against Minny. Minny and sea are likely to be ahead of the knicks and that should give us the 8th pick. Hibbert or Hawes should be there at eight. 

david


----------



## DaBabyBullz

Even if the NYK are slotted for the #8 pick, we do have a 2.30% chance at the #1  Last year, the Raptors were the #5, and had an 8.80% chance to win, and they did. Even if the Knicks only ended up the #5 team, 8.80% isn't too bad, and we'd also have 9.64 and 10.65% chances at the 2nd and 3rd picks respectively. 

In 2006, the #5 team won the lottery, with 8.80% chance at it.
In 2005, the #6 team won the lottery, with 6.30% chance at it.
In 2004, the #1 team won the lottery, with 25.0% chance at it.
In 2003, the #1 team won the lottery, with 22.5% chance at it. 
In 2002, the #5 team won the lottery, with 8.90% chance at it. Bulls 2 got 3
In 2001, the #3 team won the lottery, with 15.7% chance at it. Bulls 1 got 2
In 2000, the #7 team won the lottery, with 4.40% chance at it. Bulls 2 got 3
*In 1999, the #3 team won the lottery, with 15.7% chance at it. Bulls 3 got 1*

Going back further, the last time the #1 team actually won the lottery was 1990. 

In 1993, the last lottery team jumped all the way to #1 (Orlando...they were 41-41, if I remember correctly, they took Shaq, and in no time we were sweeping them in the conference finals. Now imagine if we were that team to get the #1 and get Oden...we'd be sweeping people in the finals in a few years!)

*Out of 17 years, with the lottery format basically as it is now, only THREE times has the #1 team actually won the lottery.* 67/17 averages out to the team winning the lottery being about the #4 team. 

http://www.nba.com/history/lottery_probabilities.html


----------



## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls!

I'm getting excited about this!

Right now, "we're" 10th, but ONLY a couple of games out from 5th. Only the following teams are clearly out of reach:

1. Memphis: 19-57
2. Boston 23-51
3. Milwaukee: 26-48
4. Atlanta 27-48

Within striking distance if "we" continue to tank it:

Philadelphia 
Charlotte
Portland 
Seattle
Sacramento


C'mon Eddy, show us what you're made of (cream cheese and doughnuts, of course)!
Ok, "Starbury", vacation is only a couple weeks away. I have supreme confidence that you will continue to NOT do it.


Remaining Schedule;

"Home"

T-Wolves
Nets
Pistons


"Road"

Milwaukee
Chicago
New Jersey
Toronto
Charlotte


C'mon people, I know that "we" have it within us to Lose each and every one of the remaining games on the schdule. The fixture list is emminately undoable!


----------



## yodurk

rosenthall said:


> It's the pits that Seattle had to cough up a hard fought game against NO tonight, it looked they were going to pull it off. Winning tonights game would have put them right in the thick of the mid-to-late lottery dogfight that's brewing between Sacramento, Minnesota, New York, and Indiana with Seattle, Philadelphia, and Portland on the fringes.


I just looked at the standings and am stunned at how much potential we still have to move up in the draft. There are FIVE teams with 30 wins, while the Knicks have 31 wins. We could go from the 10th pick to the 5th pick if the right things play out. 

Only problem is that while Seattle, Philly, and Portland are fighting valiantly to finish the season strong, you have teams like Sacramento, Minnesota, and Indiana who look like they aren't even trying anymore. I'd love to get at least the 8th pick.


----------



## laso

DaBabyBullz said:


> Even if the NYK are slotted for the #8 pick, we do have a 2.30% chance at the #1  Last year, the Raptors were the #5, and had an 8.80% chance to win, and they did. Even if the Knicks only ended up the #5 team, 8.80% isn't too bad, and we'd also have 9.64 and 10.65% chances at the 2nd and 3rd picks respectively.
> 
> To me getting a top 3 is the key. Not necessarily #1. Don't get me wrong, I'd love Oden here, but if we have a shot at getting either one of Oden, Durant or Horford, I really think it would make us a really good team for a very long time.


----------



## The ROY

laso said:


> DaBabyBullz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even if the NYK are slotted for the #8 pick, we do have a 2.30% chance at the #1  Last year, the Raptors were the #5, and had an 8.80% chance to win, and they did. Even if the Knicks only ended up the #5 team, 8.80% isn't too bad, and we'd also have 9.64 and 10.65% chances at the 2nd and 3rd picks respectively.
> 
> To me getting a top 3 is the key. Not necessarily #1. Don't get me wrong, I'd love Oden here, but if we have a shot at getting either one of Oden, Durant or Horford, I really think it would make us a really good team for a very long time.
> 
> 
> 
> As much as I like Horford, if I have the 3rd pick in the draft this season? I'm going with Brandan Wright. I'd split the PF duties between him and Tyrus and sign a C with some experience to play behind big ben. I'd also use the two 2nd's to move up and grab a center to develop like Marc Gasol.
> 
> C Wallace / Mihm / Gasol
> F Thomas / Wright
> 
> = Dynasty
Click to expand...


----------



## The ROY

next games :

raptors @ sixers
pacers @ bobcats
jazz @ kings
lakers @ seattle
wolves @ knicks
blazers @ rockets

besides Minne, I expect all the rest of the teams we need to WIN to lose those games...


----------



## DaBabyBullz

The ROY said:


> laso said:
> 
> 
> 
> As much as I like Horford, if I have the 3rd pick in the draft this season? I'm going with Brandan Wright. I'd split the PF duties between him and Tyrus and sign a C with some experience to play behind big ben. I'd also use the two 2nd's to move up and grab a center to develop like Marc Gasol.
> 
> C Wallace / Mihm / Gasol
> F Thomas / Wright
> 
> = Dynasty
> 
> 
> 
> That is exactly what I'd do. Against smaller lineups, we could have both Tyrus and Brandan on the court together. I'd look into getting a big in FA like Darko, even if it meant trading some of our backups for him if we're not able to get a 7 footer later in the draft.
Click to expand...


----------



## theanimal23

We need these other teams to start winning. The thing I worry is that NYK will at least semi-try, while other teams will fully tank.

Min vs NYK is huge.

I don't expect all of Portland, Philly, Seattle, and Sacramento to pass the Knicks. But I am hoping for two teams. I believe that would put us at the 7th spot.


----------



## JeremyB0001

The ROY said:


> next games :
> 
> raptors @ sixers
> pacers @ bobcats
> jazz @ kings
> lakers @ seattle
> wolves @ knicks
> blazers @ rockets
> 
> besides Minne, I expect all the rest of the teams we need to WIN to lose those games...


They're all home games except the Blazers so I see some potential there. A TWolves victory would be huge but I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## Ron Cey

Since the before the season started, I've been saying a top 10 pick should be considered a god-send (actually, I predicted it, but it would still be a god-send). Looks like that might happen. 

Top 8 looks within reach as well, which would be a downright coup. 

Go "everyone from the 5-12 slot not named the Knicks"!


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Has this been posted anywhere yet:

Hawes is declaring for the draft but is not going to hire an agent yet.

http://www.draftexpress.com/headlines.php#2605

This is really good news. He might not be ready to really contribute this year, but he's the type of player that could complete our roster down the line.


----------



## Soulful Sides

http://www.basketballforum.com/chicago-bulls/351117-one-only-official-im-entering-draft-thread.html


----------



## yodurk

Here comes the Knicks' bi-weekly comeback in the final 2 minutes again. Minnesota had a 9 point lead with 1:30 left, but it's getting down to 4 now with 1 minute.

Darnit...Knicks got 3 shots up with under 24 seconds left, so now it's only 2-point game.

Game over, Knicks lose! Foye choked at the free throw line when sealing the win, but Craig Smith got a clutch offensive rebound to win it. Rock on, Knicks.


----------



## yodurk

So this Knicks loss was an absolute dagger in their season. It was already looking bleak, but now they are 13 games under .500 with only 7 games left. 

Also, just as they finally get David Lee back, Marbury left the game with turf toe. If he's gone for even a few games, then this losing streak will continue. More importantly, Minnesota gained a game and that drops our pick down to #8 I believe.

Not only is their roster a mess right now, but those final 7 games are brutal: 5 road games, 2 home games. Detroit, Chicago, and Toronto are on the list; New Jersey twice; Milwaukee tomorrow after a tough loss. I'm suddenly really loving where this draft pick is ending up.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Soulful Sides said:


> http://www.basketballforum.com/chicago-bulls/351117-one-only-official-im-entering-draft-thread.html


Ahhh, I see.


----------



## giusd

KNICKS IN TOTAL MELTDOWN. They are now 31 and 44 with seven games left and IMHO they are going to finish the season 2 and 5 so we are talking about 33 wins. Minny now has 33 wins and and Indy 34 so they will definately finish ahead of the knicks. Sea, Phl, Portland, and Sac are only one game back of the knicks. I am still predicting the 8th pick.

The knicks are 2 and 11 since IT got his extenstion????

Hawes or Hibbert will be there at eight.

david


----------



## theanimal23

Seattle up at half, Sac within 3.

Fingers Crossed.


----------



## rosenthall

What a fortuitous night for us Bulls fans!! We drop NJ like a bad habit, the Knicks lose to one of their direct competitors in the draft, the TrailBlazers and Kings win, and Seattle has played Los Angelas to a standstill with 3 minutes remaining. 

I'm not sure if this is correct, but I believe the Knicks, Blazers, and Kings are tied for the 7,8,9 picks at the moment, with Philly 1 pick behind, and Seattle behind by only a half game if they close out on the Lakers.

At such a spot, we would have an almost certain chance of landing a good player, and would stand a decent chance to get into the top 3.

It would have been nice to see Philly win, but I suppose beggers can't be choosy.


----------



## lougehrig

5 road games and 2 home games (against Detroit and NJ) for our buddies in NY. 1-6 or 2-5 isn't out of the question. They are looking terrible at the moment. Curry had 9 turnovers tonight!!!!

I predict the 6th pick and about a 5-6% chance at the top pick and another 6-7% chance at number 2. The Knicks are tied with Portland and Sacramento for the 8-9-10 pick right now, not the 7-8-9. Philly and Seattle just need to win a few games. If we are really, really lucky Charlotte will continue their hot streak and we end up at 5.

Best Case: Oden / Durant
Medium Case: Wright / Noah
Worst Case: Hawes / Hibbert

I'd be happy with any one of those players. Thanks again Isiah. My vote for Executive and Coach of the Year.


----------



## rosenthall

Tomorrow night should provide a telling sign to how severe the Knicks' bought of ineptitude has become. They're facing off against a Milwaukee team that has completely lost its season, has arguably its 4 best players to injury, and is tanking so hard that they sat 3 people in their game tonight against Atlanta, citing traumatic medical reasons such as "knee pains" and "ear infections." 

If they can out-suck the Bucks on Saturday, I think it would be fair to conclude that the Knicks are playing the worst basketball of any team in the league presently, and our chances of attaining a mid lottery pick would appear to be good. 

In addition, their competitors are playing fairly winnable games over the next two days, and if the cards fall our way, the Knicks may be able to put some separation between themselves and the rigamarole of other mediocre teams that they find themselves locking horns with in the standings.


----------



## Soulful Sides

It's interesting to note the Knicks fans on Knickerblogger.net noting that Curry hasn't stepped up to carry the team through the injuries...it's Marbury trying. Some have even mentioned, get this, trading him.



> One thing I noticed about Curry last night was his relative inability to finish in traffic. He had the ball under the hoop a few times, and instead of just going up and flushing, like Shaq would do, he tried to lay it in. He got fouled both times, but he missed both times. He doesnt really have the pure athleticism of a great interior player, who you know will absolutely decimate the rim if he gets the ball under the basket. He doesnt get off two feet all that well.
> 
> --
> 
> it is fair to say that Eddy Curry is primarily-to-exclusively used as a dunker. Unlike the exceptional dunkers mentioned above (and despite having hints of a passable set shot from about 12 to 18 feet), Curry is not blessed by the kind of extenuating factors that would let him adapt when his interior scoring is denied. Compounding this is the fact that he is not an instinctive rebounder (e.g. like Elton Brand or David Lee) who might chase after teammates’ misses. Nor is he a natural slasher / cutter (e.g. like Amaré Stoudemire) who might use movement to lure away and tire out his defender. The result is that he becomes nearly useless whenever the paint is inaccessible.
> 
> All in all, Eddy Curry provides his team a tremendous benefit of defensive distortion, up to and until the defence adjusts… whereupon he becomes little more than a spectator at best and a ‘black hole’ at worst. It is possible that in time Curry may develop alternate skills to aid him in coping with stingy defenders. For the moment, his deficiencies suggest he is best used not as the hub of a team’s offence, but rather as a third option to throw variety into a scheme. A comparable player would be Wayman Tisdale, who built an NBA career with Indiana, Sacramento and Phoenix as a reliable 18 ppg, 6 rpg player, with a modest jumpshot and tricky interior moves useful as a change of pace from the main offence.
> 
> --
> 
> We can debate whether Curry will ever improve, whether we should trade him while value is relatively high, etc…
> 
> …but he is so bad at everything but low-post scoring, as long as he’s on the team you need to run virtually every play though him, or he’s a total loss.
> 
> --
> 
> Do players succeed largely because of the players they are matched with on the court? Not so sure about that. It matters a little bit, but really not that much at all. I dont think for instance that Curry is suffering largely because he doesnt have a great guard to feed him or shooters to protect him. The Dude leads the league in offensive fouls and nearly in turnovers. Is that really because of bad feeding and shooting around him? Is that really going to change if Rashard Lewis were to show up in New York by some divine act of mercy?
> 
> --
> 
> Thing is….Curry has to get the ball out of those double teams to the shooters without turning the ball over.
> 
> I don’t really have faith in his ability to do that.
> 
> --
> 
> Another nice snapshot. Eddy Curry smiling on the bench after fouling out with an offensive foul.
> 
> Nine turnovers!


----------



## rosenthall

rosenthall said:


> Tomorrow night should provide a telling sign to how severe the Knicks' bought of ineptitude has become. They're facing off against a Milwaukee team that has completely lost its season, has arguably its 4 best players to injury, and is tanking so hard that they sat 3 people in their game tonight against Atlanta, citing traumatic medical reasons such as "knee pains" and "ear infections."
> 
> If they can out-suck the Bucks on Saturday, I think it would be fair to conclude that the Knicks are playing the worst basketball of any team in the league presently, and our chances of attaining a mid lottery pick would appear to be good.
> 
> In addition, their competitors are playing fairly winnable games over the next two days, and if the cards fall our way, the Knicks may be able to put some separation between themselves and the rigamarole of other mediocre teams that they find themselves locking horns with in the standings.


 o
I just double checked the boxscore from tonights game, and I didn't realize NY's lineup right now is as bad as it is. With Marbury out, a starting 1-4 of Mardy Collins, Nate Robinson, Jared Jeffries, and Channing Frye is pretty brutal, and there's little talent to mask Eddy Curry's liabilities, or to allow him to play to his strengths. Their lineup is actually comparable to Milwaukee's at the moment.


----------



## Soulful Sides

Isiah's promise:



> Isiah Thomas promised yesterday Knicks center Eddy Curry will return next season with a 15-foot jumper that will make him more dangerous.
> 
> That Thomas delved deeply into Curry's summer preparation was an indication the Knicks coach/president has given up hope on making the playoffs because of his club's depleted state.
> --
> "Now with Eddy, he's double-teamed, triple-teamed, the next development in his game will have to be the 15-foot jump shot," Thomas said, "where you can move him up to the elbow and make a shot, or take the ball and drive it. You can really move him around. Now we can only move him box to box. He's either going to be triple-teamed in that box or triple-teamed at that box."
> --
> Next season, Thomas envisions calling more pick-and-pops for Curry if he develops a mid-range jumper.
> 
> "Being able to play 15 feet from the basket and not being so stationary, it's our job to do that and we'll do that," Thomas said.


Asking Curry to drive is a recipe for disaster, methinks.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04062007/sports/knicks/curry_up_offense_knicks_marc_berman.htm


----------



## rosenthall

Looking through the draft standings, Miami and Phoenix seem like good partners to trade with to grab a late 1st round pick. Miami because Pat Riley has never had much of an interest in developing draft picks and Phoenix since they have 3 1st round picks and seem prone to giving them away if it will save money.

For either team, I'd think some combination of our 2nd round picks, cash, and Khryapa would be good enough to get the 20 or 24 pick in this draft. I think it'd be a real hoot if we could get Hibbert of Hawes with our pick and then use one of the later picks to get one of Splitter, Herbert Hill, or take a flyer on a project like Hasheem Thabeet, Ante Tomic, Alexis Ajinca, or Vitor Tasch. 14 feet of certifiable NBA talent would be real nice.


----------



## bullybullz

Soulful Sides said:


> Isiah's promise:
> 
> 
> 
> Asking Curry to drive is a recipe for disaster, methinks.
> 
> http://www.nypost.com/seven/04062007/sports/knicks/curry_up_offense_knicks_marc_berman.htm


I think Isiah Thomas is really trying to say "This team I have constructed is so screwed and messed up even I can't coach this team. I am trying to develop Curry an outside shot so that we can lose more games next year and get even higher picks in the future draft lotteries. That way we can continue to buy-out players' contracts and sign more players to bad contracts. I hope NY Knicks fans understand what I am going through and I am doing this for the franchise's sakes so NY Knicks fans should continue to support our team."


----------



## step

> "Being able to play 15 feet from the basket and not being so stationary


Things like that make me wonder if Thomas is watching what happens on the court at all. You can try to emulate the Suns all you want Isiah, it's just not possible with your roster.

Curry to be back on atkins!


----------



## such sweet thunder

rosenthall said:


> o
> I just double checked the boxscore from tonights game, and I didn't realize NY's lineup right now is as bad as it is. With Marbury out, a starting 1-4 of Mardy Collins, Nate Robinson, Jared Jeffries, and Channing Frye is pretty brutal, and there's little talent to mask Eddy Curry's liabilities, or to allow him to play to his strengths. Their lineup is actually comparable to Milwaukee's at the moment.


I know the flavor of the month (or the last year as it were) has been to ridicule Isiah Thomas. But it really isn't fair to judge this current Knicks team just yet; they have been absolutely destroyed by injuries. Injuries are always a problem. But with the way the Knicks have gone down, you almost almost almost have to give them a free pass.


----------



## darlets

I only see another two teams catching N.Y. Hopefully the bucks get up tomorrow, that should send the Knicks spiralling downwards.

They toss coins to seperate teams on the same amount of wins in terms of lottery odds I believe???????


Theres are a couple of teams one game below the knicks that could pull level, then it would be the luck of the coin to seperate them.

Philly, Charlotte and Seatle are one win back but have rather tough schedules to go, the teams equal or one ahead should win enough to get the job done.

Charlotte and Knicks play each other in the last game.


----------



## giusd

Right now PHL, SEA, Portland, and SAC could pass the Knicks. But even thro Portland is playing pretty good ball they have a very rough schedule. But Phily has several home games and could easily pass the knicks and i think either SEA and/or SAC coudl too but SEA has a better schedule.

I still say the 7th or 8th pick now but the knicks could easily go one ans six there last 7 games and if they can do that i think 32 wins should be good enough for an even lower pick maybe 6 ro 7.

david


----------



## theanimal23

It was key for Minny to beat NY. I think only Philly and Portland will pass them. Maybe Sacto. Seattle won't.

If Philly and Portland pass them, we get the 7th slot. Which I believe gives us a 4.3% chance at the #1 spot.

Being behind Seattle might not be bad in that they would likely want a SF. But other teams can always trade up to that spot. I would love to switch picks with them by throwing in a 2nd rounder. 

Bucks should lose to NY as they are tanking blatantly.


----------



## lougehrig

such sweet thunder said:


> I know the flavor of the month (or the last year as it were) has been to ridicule Isiah Thomas. But it really isn't fair to judge this current Knicks team just yet; they have been absolutely destroyed by injuries. Injuries are always a problem. But with the way the Knicks have gone down, you almost almost almost have to give them a free pass.


It's completely fair. Isiah has had the reigns of the Knicks for 3+ years now. He is responsible for every player on the roster. If he went out and acquired injury prone players, that's his responsibility completely. If he went out and acquired selfish players, again his problem. It's not fair? Three seasons of horrible teams is certainly long enough to judge an Executive and Coach.


----------



## theanimal23

I know the chances are extremely slim, but how awesome would it be if we went to the finals and got Oden.

A lot of people cheer for us since we play 'the right way' and are underdogs in the aspect of not having a star.

I think if this were to happen, everyone would hate Chicago again. But hey, we'd be in the running for the championship for the next decade.


----------



## Orange Julius Irving

theanimal23 said:


> I know the chances are extremely slim, but how awesome would it be if we went to the finals and got Oden.
> 
> A lot of people cheer for us since we play 'the right way' and are underdogs in the aspect of not having a star.
> 
> I think if this were to happen, everyone would hate Chicago again. But hey, we'd be in the running for the championship for the next decade.


I don't know the specifics but I believe the Celtics of the 80's did that but two guys died. Before that they were famous for winning titles, or at least being in the finals/conf. finals and then getting high draft picks through trades. 

I still think it is VERY possible the Bulls get a high pick through the Knicks. There are 4 teams that could pass them easily and 2 more that might, that would drop them way down. From what I understand anyone in the top 10 is going to be good.

Finally, no one on the Bulls plays dirty, so I don't think we'd be "hated" although more fans from other teams would hate us because we'd be a true threat. I think you can like a team like Orlando and not fear them because they are not a contender.


----------



## JeremyB0001

rosenthall said:


> Looking through the draft standings, Miami and Phoenix seem like good partners to trade with to grab a late 1st round pick. Miami because Pat Riley has never had much of an interest in developing draft picks and Phoenix since they have 3 1st round picks and seem prone to giving them away if it will save money.
> 
> For either team, I'd think some combination of our 2nd round picks, cash, and Khryapa would be good enough to get the 20 or 24 pick in this draft. I think it'd be a real hoot if we could get Hibbert of Hawes with our pick and then use one of the later picks to get one of Splitter, Herbert Hill, or take a flyer on a project like Hasheem Thabeet, Ante Tomic, Alexis Ajinca, or Vitor Tasch. 14 feet of certifiable NBA talent would be real nice.


My thoughts exactly. Let's hope Pax is thinking the same way.


----------



## charlietyra

rosenthall said:


> Looking through the draft standings, Miami and Phoenix seem like good partners to trade with to grab a late 1st round pick. Miami because Pat Riley has never had much of an interest in developing draft picks and Phoenix since they have 3 1st round picks and seem prone to giving them away if it will save money.
> 
> For either team, I'd think some combination of our 2nd round picks, cash, and Khryapa would be good enough to get the 20 or 24 pick in this draft. I think it'd be a real hoot if we could get Hibbert of Hawes with our pick and then use one of the later picks to get one of Splitter, Herbert Hill, or take a flyer on a project like Hasheem Thabeet, Ante Tomic, Alexis Ajinca, or Vitor Tasch. 14 feet of certifiable NBA talent would be real nice.


No way Splitter or Thabeet go as low as that. Assuming we pick 10-12, my feeling is that not only will Splitter be there but he actually would fit the team better than anyone else. Not that he would necessarily be the best player on the board at that point but his size and skill set are just what the Bulls need now. 

I agree that we should aggressively go after one of Phoenix's lower picks. Hill and Ajinca will be there and they could be sleepers. Workouts will determine how high they go. If either impresses, grab him. In my humble opinion, however, I would really like to see the Bulls grab another combo guard with that second pick. Thabo has played well at the three position but I just don't think he is comfortable handling the ball and running a team. In fact, I believe he actually has stated this. 

Duhon, of course, is a point guard but does not have the size to guard big guards. Hinrich is unique in that he has point guard skills and is able to guard big backcourt guys. I would like to draft someone with similar skills in case Kirk goes down. Players who could help in this respect are Gabe Pruitt, J.R. Reynolds, and D.J. Strawberry. Bigger guys with some point guard skills.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1

Chuck, 

I can respect your opinion and analysis regarding our needs and the draft. You have stated that you would want us to improve by going after one of PHX's lower draft picks. What would you propose we should be willing to give up to make that trade appealing to the Suns?


----------



## charlietyra

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Chuck,
> 
> I can respect your opinion and analysis regarding our needs and the draft. You have stated that you would want us to improve by going after one of PHX's lower draft picks. What would you propose we should be willing to give up to make that trade appealing to the Suns?



Our two second round picks and cash. That could do it. If not, perhaps a 2008 or 09 second rounder also if Pax really falls in love with that lower first round pick.


----------



## fl_flash

I think you could get the 29th pick simply for cash. Pheonix doesn't want/need the salary committments that come with guaranteed contracts of a first rounder. If they happen to get the Hawks pick this year; that'll be the guy they want to keep. I think the Suns gladly take a #4-6 pick and call it a successful off-season. I've got to believe they'd auction off their two lower firsts to the highest bidder(s) pretty handily and it wouldn't take much to get either one.

I'd love to use the 29th pick on a guy like Ante Tomic.


----------



## darlets

giusd said:


> Right now PHL, SEA, Portland, and SAC could pass the Knicks. But even thro Portland is playing pretty good ball they have a very rough schedule. But Phily has several home games and could easily pass the knicks and i think either SEA and/or SAC coudl too but SEA has a better schedule.
> 
> I still say the 7th or 8th pick now but the knicks could easily go one ans six there last 7 games and if they can do that i think 32 wins should be good enough for an even lower pick maybe 6 ro 7.
> 
> david


if the go down tonight I can see them losing the rest of the way and going 0-7
76 Sat. Apr. 07 8:30 p.m. ET at Bucks 31-44 
77 Mon. Apr. 09 7:30 p.m. ET Pistons - 
78 Tue. Apr. 10 8:30 p.m. ET at Bulls - 
79 Fri. Apr. 13 7:30 p.m. ET at Nets - 
80 Sun. Apr. 15 6:00 p.m. ET at Raptors - 
81 Mon. Apr. 16 7:30 p.m. ET Nets - 
82 Wed. Apr. 18 7:00 p.m. ET at Bobcats


----------



## giusd

I agree and if the knicks lose tonight they could easily go winless until the face the bobcats the last game of the season.

david


----------



## SALO

The Nets once gave up a pick in the early 20's for Eddie Gill & cash. It seems like there's always a team out there willing to give up a pick in the 20's for cash. It's up to Pax and more importantly Reinsdorf to get it done. I remember Pax going out of his way in previous drafts to praise Reinsdorf for coming up with the money to finalize both the Luol Deng & Thabo Sefolosha deals. 

We could probably get away with sending just one of our 2nd rounders + cash to pick up a pick in the 20's. We also have the rights to Mario Austin and we could offer his rights + 3M to someone. Phoenix would be a good target this year.


----------



## darlets

giusd said:


> I agree and if the knicks lose tonight they could easily go winless until the face the bobcats the last game of the season.
> 
> david


Fingers crossed. I'd actually back the bobcats at home in that scenario becaues the Knicks would have just lost 10 in a row and 16 of their last 18.
Saying that it would be a meaningless game for both teams so anything could happen.

Go the bucks.

Bucks up by 11. Go you good things. Both teams played last night, so the last quarter could be a nil all draw.

Hopefully Seatle can beat Utah, not holding my breath about Portland against Dallas. Portlands been play quite will but they have a crappy schedule to go.


----------



## The ROY

charlietyra said:


> Duhon, of course, is a point guard but does not have the size to guard big guards. QUOTE]
> 
> I disagree because Duhon actually guards bigger guards better than MOST bigger guards.


----------



## such sweet thunder

darlets said:


> Fingers crossed. I'd actually back the bobcats at home in that scenario becaues the Knicks would have just lost 10 in a row and 16 of their last 18.
> Saying that it would be a meaningless game for both teams so anything could happen.
> 
> Go the bucks.
> 
> Bucks up by 11. Go you good things. Both teams played last night, so the last quarter could be a nil all draw.
> 
> Hopefully Seatle can beat Utah, not holding my breath about Portland against Dallas. Portlands been play quite will but they have a crappy schedule to go.


Yeah, Bobcats have been playing much better as of late with the emergence of Walter Herman. Even more than that, New York is just decimiated by the injury bug. They're playing with less than half a team. I'd have to side with Charlotte in that scenario.

Tonights the big game. Bucks are up 10 after one quarter. Let's see if they can hold on.


----------



## darlets

Bucks up by 7 at the half.

Seatle and Portland are in their games though it's not half time yet.


----------



## RagingBulls316

Geez, Eddy Curry just hit a 3 pointer with .9 seconds left to send the Knicks/Bucks game into overtime.

What is up with the Knicks at the end of close games this year.


----------



## Soulful Sides

Knicks fall again.


----------



## RagingBulls316

Looks like the Knicks are going to win against the Bucks in overtime. Unbelievable how many Big shots they have hit this year.


----------



## theanimal23

Knicks are the luckiest team this year


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Curry hit a three pointer (his first attempt of the season) with .9 seconds to put the game in overtime, and the Knicks won.

This was terrible fortune for us.


----------



## TripleDouble

Soulful Sides said:


> Knicks fall again.


Damn you! :biggrin:


----------



## TripleDouble

Seattle won which is good.


----------



## RagingBulls316

Minnesota and Portland lost though.


----------



## theanimal23

Freakin Knicks! How ironic for us, Eddy Curry hits the 3 to hurt our lotto chances

I hate you Knickerbockers for breaking my heart


----------



## rosenthall

It is mildly consoling that it took the Knicks a last second 3 point shot by Eddy Curry to beat the only other team in the league that's as crappy and injury riddled as the Knicks.

But still, the Knicks have performed with an awesome consistency this season, which has been quite frustrating. It can be banked on that in what game they're playing, they'll toil around until someone hits a last second three to make a game much more interesting than it should be.

The Knicks are a very high maintenance team to be tracking.


----------



## darlets

rosenthall said:


> The Knicks are a very high maintenance team to be tracking.



So true.

I was hoping that we'd get a pick in the 6th-8th range and have a better chance of a top 3. Fingers still crossed.


----------



## Soulful Sides

TripleDouble said:


> Damn you! :biggrin:


:jawdrop:

NBA.com said that the Bucks had won.


----------



## giusd

The knicks got very lucky last night to get to 32 wins but come on they beat MIl who are without 3 starters.

Their next five games are against Eastern Conference playoff bound teams and they could very easily go 0 for 5. I am sticking with the 7 or 8th pick. Sea won last nigth and Sac is play Hou tonight and Yao and TM are out of the game. I still think SEA and SAC pass the knicks and even PHL still has a chance to tie.

david


----------



## THEbigO

not true. yao already has 11 points in the first quarter. they are both playing.


----------



## darlets

Bobcats did us a double favour by beating Miami. Toronto are now two games clear of Miami and the Bobcats are one game closer to the knicks.

Hopefully the Hawks and the Kings get up.


----------



## such sweet thunder

giusd said:


> The knicks got very lucky last night to get to 32 wins but come on they beat MIl who are without 3 starters.
> 
> Their next five games are against Eastern Conference playoff bound teams and they could very easily go 0 for 5. I am sticking with the 7 or 8th pick. Sea won last nigth and Sac is play Hou tonight and Yao and TM are out of the game. I still think SEA and SAC pass the knicks and even PHL still has a chance to tie.
> 
> david


New York has half their roster out. Not counting Randolph Morris or Lee (who only played two minutes last night) they only have eight of their fourteen healthy. 

Bobcats won again tonight; at least they're going to catch the Knicks. The Sixers are up in overtime; go team go.


----------



## southpark

sixers won buddy....they didnt lose


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

such sweet thunder said:


> New York has half their roster out. Not counting Randolph Morris or Lee (who only played two minutes last night) they only have eight of their fourteen healthy.
> 
> Bobcats won again tonight; at least they're going to catch the Knicks. The Sixers are up in overtime; go team go.


I still think you're nuts to expect the Bobcats to pass the Knicks. They're 3 games in back of New York in the loss column, which basically means they have to win almost all of their games, and New York has to lose almost all of them. A win over the Heat is indicative of the fact that they are peaking right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if they come up a game short of New York.

When are Marbury and Francis expected back? That Milwaukee game was a killer.

New York is currently tied for the 10th worst record with Minnesota. Sacramento is in a dogfight right now with Houston, and if they can pull out a win at home, New York will be in a three way tie for the 9th worst record. Philly and Portland are a true game back of New York, though I've heard no word on Aldridge's return this year. I think both of those teams could catch New York as well. Seattle is 1.5 games back, 2 in the loss column, and Charlotte is 2 back, but again they are 3 games back in the loss column. 

Personally, I would be pretty happy to have a pick in the single digits.

Did I say that Milwaukee game was a killer?


----------



## JeremyB0001

Sacto has games at Memphis, vs. NOK, and v. GS so their schedule is definitely easier than the Knicks the rest of the way.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

JeremyB0001 said:


> Sacto has games at Memphis, vs. NOK, and v. GS so their schedule is definitely easier than the Knicks the rest of the way.


Actually, NOK and GS are still alive for the playoffs. Those might be tough games. 

Sacto loses a tough one tonight to Houston, who really needed to win. They're still battling with Utah for homecourt in the 4-5 series in the West, and McGrady and Yao were back playing today.

New York is still tied for 10th right now. 

Does anyone know how the tiebreaker rules work for situations like this? Let's say things end up as they are, and Minnesota and New York tie for the 10th worst record. If neither wins a top 3 lottery pick, who gets the #10 pick, and who gets 11?


----------



## darlets

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I still think you're nuts to expect the Bobcats to pass the Knicks. They're 3 games in back of New York in the loss column, which basically means they have to win almost all of their games, and New York has to lose almost all of them. A win over the Heat is indicative of the fact that they are peaking right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if they come up a game short of New York.


77 Mon. Apr. 09 7:30 p.m. ET Pistons - 
78 Tue. Apr. 10 8:30 p.m. ET at Bulls - 
79 Fri. Apr. 13 7:30 p.m. ET at Nets - 
80 Sun. Apr. 15 6:00 p.m. ET at Raptors - 
81 Mon. Apr. 16 7:30 p.m. ET Nets - 
82 Wed. Apr. 18 7:00 p.m. ET at Bobcats


I've got everything crossed that they go 0-6 

The bobcats play heat again but at home this time. 
Their last two games are winnable bucks and Knicks.

79 Tue. Apr. 10 7:00 p.m. ET Heat - 
80 Fri. Apr. 13 8:30 p.m. ET at Bulls - 
81 Sat. Apr. 14 8:30 p.m. ET at Bucks - 
82 Wed. Apr. 18 7:00 p.m. ET Knicks

Checking the other schedules I would guess
Wolves win two more
Blazers win two more
Philly win two more
Kings win two or three more
Seatle doesn't win any more.


----------



## tweedy

Julian Wright changed his mind.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/news/story?id=2831190

He'll surely be a top 7 pick.


----------



## kulaz3000

Chad Ford "apparently" hears rumours that Julian Wright has changed his mind and is going to the Draft. Im not suprised with that new actually, i dont see how Wright was even considered a lottery pick, he seems like a good solid player, but not a sure all star to be or anything.

With that news that Wright may go into the draft, it makes it easier for us to grab a big with our pick because Wright will most likely go in the top 10.


----------



## step

The more the merrier!


----------



## yodurk

My gosh, this depleted Knicks team just outscored the best road team in the East 30-18 in the 3rd quarter to take a 5-point lead entering the 4th. Truly truly frightening. You think Detroit is tanking to screw us out of draft position? They do have the #1 locked up afterall.


----------



## RagingBulls316

It's a 1 point game now. But I don't like any close game involving the Knicks anymore .


----------



## JeremyB0001

Detroit has to stay up four points or "Tre Bomb" Curry might strike.


----------



## rosenthall

With less than two minutes to go, and the Pistons up by 4, those Wily Knicks look poised to hit yet another last second, desperation three to make the game much more interesting that in deserves to be.


----------



## Hustle

Detriot wins! Thank God.

Wolves up by 5


----------



## yodurk

rosenthall said:


> With less than two minutes to go, and the Pistons up by 4, those Wily Knicks look poised to hit yet another last second, desperation three to make the game much more interesting that in deserves to be.


It's almost equally astounding how the Knick opponents seem to consistently miss clutch free throws to put the game away. McDyess & Prince just missed 3 of 4 that would've easily put it away. Fortunately the Knicks are missing their shots in the final minutes so it looks like a done deal.

So now we can thank the Pistons for wearing out the Knicks for their trip into the United Center tomorrow. Should be a fun game.


----------



## giusd

Am i the only one who thinks the Pistons were just playing with the knicks tonight. It was almost if they were just coasting until the 4th quarter and they started playing harder and then boom the game was over. It really never looked like they were trying until the end.

Well the knicks are 32 and 45 with five games left and four against eastern playoff teams and then the last game of the season against CHA at Cha. It is still MELTDOWN in ny.

They play the bulls on Tuesday night as part of there 2nd game of a four games in five nights. I think the bulls will clock them and i still think we get pick number 7 or 8.

david


----------



## RagingBulls316

Well if my Math is correct (it probably isn't).

With a Bulls win tomorrow against the Knicks. We will have officially eliminated them from the playoffs. And secured a lotto pick.


----------



## JeremyB0001

TWolves are down ten with less than a minute remaining after being outscored 35 to 19th in the fourth. Man.


----------



## Orange Julius Irving

RagingBulls316 said:


> Well if my Math is correct (it probably isn't).
> 
> With a Bulls win tomorrow against the Knicks. We will have officially eliminated them from the playoffs. And secured a lotto pick.



I had to laugh the other night, ESPN is so NY biased that in their playoff hunt standings they still had the Knicks at 3 games out as the last team on the list. At the time their were at least 2 or 3 other teams that were 1 or 2 games back of the Knicks that hadn't been eliminated from the playoffs but I guess ESPN felt they didn't have a chance but the Knicks did.


----------



## giusd

NY press is the worst. The knicks are now 3 and 11 in their last 14 games and in almost total free fall. And the bulls play them on Tuesday and this will be the knicks 4th game in five nights. They will be beat and look for the bulls to clock them.

Then three games left and they could easily lose all three. So i guess i am say the knicks finsih 32 and 50 and that should be good for the 7th pick in the draft.

david


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

giusd said:


> NY press is the worst. The knicks are now 3 and 11 in their last 14 games and in almost total free fall. And the bulls play them on Tuesday and this will be the knicks 4th game in five nights. They will be beat and look for the bulls to clock them.
> 
> Then three games left and they could easily lose all three. So i guess i am say the knicks finsih 32 and 50 and that should be good for the 7th pick in the draft.
> 
> david


When anyone picks a team to lose four straight games, I think they're picking with their hearts instead of their heads. I know the Knicks are depleted, but I still don't expect them to lose all their games. 1-3 is much more likely, and I wouldn't put it past them to go 2-2.


----------



## JeremyB0001

Darius Miles Davis said:


> When anyone picks a team to lose four straight games, I think they're picking with their hearts instead of their heads. I know the Knicks are depleted, but I still don't expect them to lose all their games. 1-3 is much more likely, and I wouldn't put it past them to go 2-2.


They're clear underdogs for three of the four games so I don't see 2-2 as any more likely than 0-4. The mere fact that these four games are back to back for them doesn't make them any more capable of winning difficult contests in my opinion.


----------



## narek

JeremyB0001 said:


> They're clear underdogs for three of the four games so I don't see 2-2 as any more likely than 0-4. The mere fact that these four games are back to back for them doesn't make them any more capable of winning difficult contests in my opinion.


The Magic won tonight, which makes it even harder for the Knicks to make the Playoffs. Despite a career night from Jaren Reiner, the Bucks lost to the Magic.


----------



## theanimal23

Knicks vs Bulls will be the most important game of the year.

A loss will break my heart. Lose seeding and chances to increase draft position and chances for the big ticket.

Knicks have to go 0-4 to make up for all those last second heroics.

Heres to Philly, Portland, and Seattle pulling off miracles. Hell, include Charlotte too.


----------



## Orange Julius Irving

theanimal23 said:


> Knicks vs Bulls will be the most important game of the year.
> 
> A loss will break my heart. Lose seeding and chances to increase draft position and chances for the big ticket.
> 
> Knicks have to go 0-4 to make up for all those last second heroics.
> 
> Heres to Philly, Portland, and Seattle pulling off miracles. Hell, include Charlotte too.


Strictly speaking I think the last game of the season COULD be the most important game of the season IF The Bulls have the second seed locked up with a win.

IF they looseAT New Jersy and end up playing them in the playoffs the Bulls will esentially need to win ALL 4 home games and make it a 7 game series since a loss IN NJ will mean the Bulls haven't beaten NJ IN NJ since 2001. 

I could also argue that the game against Charlotte is big too since the last time we played them we got beat BADLY.

Part of the games import depends on Cleveland. IF Cleveland looses a couple of their last 4 we can coast a little too. 

But I do agree that IF the Bulls loose tomorrow night to a seriously depleted Knicks team it will be THE WORST LOSS OF THE SEASON!!


----------



## theanimal23

All I'm saying is that IF we do lose again this regular season, just don't let it be tomorrow.

That draft pick could pay immense dividends for our future. I just want the 7th pick. On the ESPN Lotto game, your chances increase significantly at the 7th pick vs 8th etc. I just want that 7-8% chance versus that 1% or 0.5% chance at landing Mr. Greg Oden. Plus being at 7 with a potential trade partner in Seattle ahead of you is not bad.


----------



## JeremyB0001

Orange Julius Irving said:


> IF they looseAT New Jersy and end up playing them in the playoffs the Bulls will esentially need to win ALL 4 home games and make it a 7 game series since a loss IN NJ will mean the Bulls haven't beaten NJ IN NJ since 2001.


I feel like that statistic is a bit misleading. What does today's near 50 win team have to do with the 20-30 win teams we fielded during the first half of that streak? What does this season's lackluster NJ team have to do with the Finals team they had one of those seasons? This season, the Bulls are going to win nearly 50 games and the Nets will finish under .500 so I think we would have a pretty solid shot of winning at least one of three road games against them in a seven game series.


----------



## JeremyB0001

theanimal23 said:


> All I'm saying is that IF we do lose again this regular season, just don't let it be tomorrow.


Ughh. I hadn't even thought about it. It would be quite possibly our most unexpected loss of the season. I'd really rather not talk about it.


----------



## RagingBulls316

Pretty much every game since March 29th people have been saying "it's the biggest game of the season". Lone exception being the game against Atlanta.

Bottom line they are all important.


----------



## rosenthall

Tomorrow looks to be an important game in shaping the Bulls postseason landscape. We have a game against our archnemesis Knicks, and assuming we win, two teams would appear poised to leapfrog Isiah Thomas' band of merry men in the standings.

The Kings and Sixers both have home games against the Grizzlies and Pacers, which would put the Knicks in the 8th seed, I believe.

Go Knicks!


----------



## Orange Julius Irving

JeremyB0001 said:


> I feel like that statistic is a bit misleading. What does today's near 50 win team have to do with the 20-30 win teams we fielded during the first half of that streak? What does this season's lackluster NJ team have to do with the Finals team they had one of those seasons? This season, the Bulls are going to win nearly 50 games and the Nets will finish under .500 so I think we would have a pretty solid shot of winning at least one of three road games against them in a seven game series.


Well it's not misleading IF the Bulls loose at NJ the last game of the season, that would make the Bulls 0-2 THIS season against NJ and 0-1 against them last season, and I assume we played them a couple times in NJ in 04-05 season and lost too. 

It would give NJ a huge mental advantage to win at home, IMO, and a mental disadvantage to The Bulls. Not saying the Bulls don't lay an egg on the last day of the season, still get the 2nd seed and then turn it on in the playoffs.


----------



## JeremyB0001

Orange Julius Irving said:


> Well it's not misleading IF the Bulls loose at NJ the last game of the season, that would make the Bulls 0-2 THIS season against NJ and 0-1 against them last season, and I assume we played them a couple times in NJ in 04-05 season and lost too.
> 
> It would give NJ a huge mental advantage to win at home, IMO, and a mental disadvantage to The Bulls. Not saying the Bulls don't lay an egg on the last day of the season, still get the 2nd seed and then turn it on in the playoffs.


Even last season or two seasons ago though we're talking about substantially different teams with success different than this season. We have about 160 different games played by these two teams as currently constructed this season (injuries notwithstanding) to gather information so I just don't see the point of drawing major conclusions based on two of those games and several others played in previous seasons. I mean if we hadn't won a road game against the Grizzlies since '01 would you say we'd likely need to win four home games against them to take a seven game series?


----------



## Rhyder

JeremyB0001 said:


> They're clear underdogs for three of the four games so I don't see 2-2 as any more likely than 0-4. The mere fact that these four games are back to back for them doesn't make them any more capable of winning difficult contests in my opinion.


Simple stats lesson (x = average chance of winning over the next four games)

Average odds of winning each game to make 0 wins most likely: 4x < 0.5
x < 12.5%

Average odds of winning each game to make 2 wins more likely: 4x > 1.5
x > 37.5%

If you think the average odds that the Knicks win 1 game per game over their next 4 is closer to 37.5% than it is to 12.5%, then the odds are greater that they go 2-2 than 0-4. In other words, if you think the Knicks have > 25% chance of winning in their next four games (on average), then 2-2 is more likely than 0-4. If you think the Knicks have < 25% chance of winning in their next four games (on average), then 0-4 is more likely than 2-2.

I'd say 2-2 is more likely than 0-4, although 1-3 is the most likely scenerio by far.

(I hope I worded this well enough to make it understandable)


----------



## King Joseus

Rhyder said:


> Simple stats lesson (x = average chance of winning over the next four games)
> 
> Average odds of winning each game to make 0 wins most likely: 4x < 0.5
> x < 12.5%
> 
> Average odds of winning each game to make 2 wins more likely: 4x > 1.5
> x > 37.5%
> 
> If you think the average odds that the Knicks win 1 game per game over their next 4 is closer to 37.5% than it is to 12.5%, then the odds are greater that they go 2-2 than 0-4. In other words, if you think the Knicks have > 25% chance of winning in their next four games (on average), then 2-2 is more likely than 0-4. If you think the Knicks have < 25% chance of winning in their next four games (on average), then 0-4 is more likely than 2-2.
> 
> I'd say 2-2 is more likely than 0-4, although 1-3 is the most likely scenerio by far.
> 
> (I hope I worded this well enough to make it understandable)


You lost me, but I'm sleepy. And I got the important part (of 1-3 being most likely)...


----------



## Rhyder

King Joseus said:


> You lost me, but I'm sleepy. And I got the important part (of 1-3 being most likely)...


If you'd like me to explain it more in depth, I shall.

In the equation 4x < 0.5

4 = the number of games the Knicks have remaining
x = the average expected chance of winning each game
0.5 = expected wins

You need less than 0.5 expected wins to make 0-4 a likely scenerio. You need > 1.5 wins to make 2-2 a likely scenerio.

If you are breaking down all the possibilities in terms of probability (wherever I say wins, think expected wins):
0-4: < 0.5 wins
1-3: 0.5 < wins < 1.5
2-2: 1.5 < wins < 2.5
3-1: 2.5 < wins < 3.5
4-0: > 3.5 wins

According to my handicapping & assuming no new injuries, I have 1-3 > 2-2 > 0-4 > 3-1 > 4-0 in terms of all the likely scenerios for the Knicks to finish the season.


----------



## King Joseus

Rhyder said:


> If you'd like me to explain it more in depth, I shall.
> 
> In the equation 4x < 0.5
> 
> 4 = the number of games the Knicks have remaining
> x = the average expected chance of winning each game
> 0.5 = expected wins
> 
> You need less than 0.5 expected wins to make 0-4 a likely scenerio. You need > 1.5 wins to make 2-2 a likely scenerio.
> 
> If you are breaking down all the possibilities in terms of probability (wherever I say wins, think expected wins):
> 0-4: < 0.5 wins
> 1-3: 0.5 < wins < 1.5
> 2-2: 1.5 < wins < 2.5
> 3-1: 2.5 < wins < 3.5
> 4-0: > 3.5 wins
> 
> According to my handicapping & assuming no new injuries, I have 1-3 > 2-2 > 0-4 > 3-1 > 4-0 in terms of all the likely scenerios for the Knicks to finish the season.


That makes sense. Haha, I woke up a bit since earlier. Thanks for the clearer look there, I got it now...


----------



## JeremyB0001

Rhyder said:


> Simple stats lesson (x = average chance of winning over the next four games)
> 
> Average odds of winning each game to make 0 wins most likely: 4x < 0.5
> x < 12.5%
> 
> Average odds of winning each game to make 2 wins more likely: 4x > 1.5
> x > 37.5%
> 
> If you think the average odds that the Knicks win 1 game per game over their next 4 is closer to 37.5% than it is to 12.5%, then the odds are greater that they go 2-2 than 0-4. In other words, if you think the Knicks have > 25% chance of winning in their next four games (on average), then 2-2 is more likely than 0-4. If you think the Knicks have < 25% chance of winning in their next four games (on average), then 0-4 is more likely than 2-2.
> 
> I'd say 2-2 is more likely than 0-4, although 1-3 is the most likely scenerio by far.
> 
> (I hope I worded this well enough to make it understandable)


It may have been wrong but I was pretty much assuming they would lose @Tor and @ Chi (less than 10%) which probably puts their average chance of winning each of the four games below 25%. My point was more that if you flip a coin ten times and it comes up heads every time, the odds of flipping heads an 11th time are still 50%. The flaw in that reasoning is that there's obvoiusly less than a 100% chance they'll lose those two games but I was looking at things more analytically than mathmatically i.e. assuming that they lose the first three games which are tough matchups, that doesn't mean they're any more likely to lose the fourth game against NJ (where you could fashion an argument that NJ should be favored) simply because it's unlikely to lose four games in a row. Yeah, I was getting ahead of myself but if you forced me to put money on 0-4 or 2-2, I'd take 0-4. I just don't see them taking one of @Tor and @Chi or sweeping NJ whereas I can envision them losing all four even if it's unlikely. We're talking about a highly depleted team that's lost 9 out of 11 playing four games against playoff teams.


----------



## Rhyder

JeremyB0001 said:


> It may have been wrong but I was pretty much assuming they would lose @Tor and @ Chi (less than 10%) which probably puts their average chance of winning each of the four games below 25%. My point was more that if you flip a coin ten times and it comes up heads every time, the odds of flipping heads an 11th time are still 50%. The flaw in that reasoning is that there's obvoiusly less than a 100% chance they'll lose those two games but I was looking at things more analytically than mathmatically i.e. assuming that they lose the first three games which are tough matchups, that doesn't mean they're any more likely to lose the fourth game against NJ (where you could fashion an argument that NJ should be favored) simply because it's unlikely to lose four games in a row. Yeah, I was getting ahead of myself but if you forced me to put money on 0-4 or 2-2, I'd take 0-4. I just don't see them taking one of @Tor and @Chi or sweeping NJ whereas I can envision them losing all four even if it's unlikely. We're talking about a highly depleted team that's lost 9 out of 11 playing four games against playoff teams.


You say the first three games will not determine the outcome of the fourth, and you are absolutely correct. The flaw is that you assume losses for the first three games. The Knicks have a chance of winning each of those three games.

I understand your dilemma, because it is difficult to pick which games the Knicks will win because they are at a disadvantage in every game. Thus, it's even tougher to imagine them winning two. That's why I decided to bring out a simplified probability tree to emphasize the point.

If the Knicks go 0-2 against Chicago and Toronto, then yes 0-4 will be more likely than 2-2, but not when there are still 4 games left to play.

Now if you give the Knicks < 10% chance to win the first two, that would change your equation vs. mine. My system gives the 14% chance of winning tonight and a 27% of winning at Toronto.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Rhyder said:


> You say the first three games will not determine the outcome of the fourth, and you are absolutely correct. The flaw is that you assume losses for the first three games. The Knicks have a chance of winning each of those three games.
> 
> I understand your dilemma, because it is difficult to pick which games the Knicks will win because they are at a disadvantage in every game. Thus, it's even tougher to imagine them winning two. That's why I decided to bring out a simplified probability tree to emphasize the point.
> 
> If the Knicks go 0-2 against Chicago and Toronto, then yes 0-4 will be more likely than 2-2, but not when there are still 4 games left to play. Now if you give the Knicks < 10% chance to win the first two
> 
> My system gives the 14% chance of winning tonight and a 27% of winning at Toronto.


The Knicks almost beat Detroit last night. They're still an NBA team, and they have all the incentive in the world to stick it to us tonight. I expect us to win, but it would disappoint -- but not shock -- me if they stole one from us.


----------



## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls!

I agree that the Knicks have enough incentive to stick it to us, but they're obviously lacking in firepower. 


I expect us to win and win comfortably. We have ample incentive, ourselves. If we run the table on the remaining games, we've got the #2 seed, no matter what everyone else does.

Very interesting to see how we'll handle Eddy, given that's all they've really got, at this point, with all of their injuries.

Hey, DMD, OT: nice tune! You have excellent taste. I didn't know that you studied with Fareed and Kurt Rosenwinkel. Fareed used to live in Rogers Park, but I think he's moved to the burbs. He's been doing some strange stuff, of late; I really hate his jam band crap (but that's what sells these days, I guess), but he's done some interesting stuff with the Ethnic Heritage Ensemble/AACM types. I'm trying to get guitar lessions from Jack Chicini, but he's all booked up, at the moment.


----------



## giusd

As for the knicks versus det last night this was det second game of a back to back having played a very tough CLE team on Sat. And i watched most of the game and DET was playing with the knicks and didnt even start playing hard until the last 4 minutes or so and then just blasted the knicks. And tonights game is the second of a back to back for the knicks and they will be tried and with their bench wiped out due to injuries i think the knicks are not going to put up a very big fight. EC looked gases at the end of the game last night and really he is the only one who can score. I think the knicks go down tonight and against Toronto. 

david


----------



## JeremyB0001

Rhyder said:


> You say the first three games will not determine the outcome of the fourth, and you are absolutely correct. The flaw is that you assume losses for the first three games. The Knicks have a chance of winning each of those three games.
> 
> I understand your dilemma, because it is difficult to pick which games the Knicks will win because they are at a disadvantage in every game. Thus, it's even tougher to imagine them winning two. That's why I decided to bring out a simplified probability tree to emphasize the point.
> 
> If the Knicks go 0-2 against Chicago and Toronto, then yes 0-4 will be more likely than 2-2, but not when there are still 4 games left to play.
> 
> Now if you give the Knicks < 10% chance to win the first two, that would change your equation vs. mine. My system gives the 14% chance of winning tonight and a 27% of winning at Toronto.


Agreed.


----------



## narek

SI has a story on an event in Memphis last week, where Pax was looking at young American and European talent, including at least one 7 footer from Europe:



> Nicolas Batum has long arms, leaps high and speaks with a French accent. He will be playing in an NBA city within three years -- or maybe next season.
> 
> He was the international star of the 10th Nike Hoop Summit last Saturday in Memphis, which drew the attention of virtually the entire NBA. The Hoop Summit is the annual All-Star Game of American high schoolers against a World Select team of young professionals. Even more impressive than the talent on the court was its celebrated audience of NBA personnel types -- including the Grizzlies' Jerry West, Utah's Kevin O'Connor, Chicago's John Paxson, San Antonio's R.C. Buford, Sacramento's Geoff Petrie, Cleveland's Danny Ferry and Portland's Kevin Pritchard.
> 
> Someday the NBA will be employing at least half of the players who were on display in Memphis. Much is already known of American prodigies like 6-foot-5 O.J. Mayo, a Gilbert Arenas-like scorer; 6-9 Michael Beasley, who offended some NBA scouts by leaning into the huddle of the international team during a timeout in an attempt at entertaining the crowd; and 6-10 Kevin Love, who proved to be more of a face-up perimeter forward than some NBA people had anticipated.


A profile of some of the players at International draft prospects show off skills Stateside


----------



## kulaz3000

narek said:


> SI has a story on an event in Memphis last week, where Pax was looking at young American and European talent, including at least one 7 footer from Europe:
> 
> 
> 
> A profile of some of the players at International draft prospects show off skills Stateside


Batum isn't a 7 footer, his a 6-8 guard/forward who has a 7-1 wingspan, ala Thabo.

His descriptions and the little clips i've seen him in reminds me alot of Thabo, though Batum seems to be more offensive minded and Thabo a little more defensive. But the bodies and length are unbelievably similar, though Batum is probably the better athelete of the two and seems to have a better vertical. 

Batum is going to be one hellavua prospect. His young, his long, his atheletic and someone is going to take a gamble on him in the lottery i garentee.


----------



## giusd

Wow,

Sac, Phl, and Cha are all winning and if that holds up these teams and the knicks will all have 32 wins and the bulls pick from the knicks is tried for the 8th pick. And Sae and portland have 31 wins. 

david


----------



## yodurk

Good deal tonight. We beat the living daylights out of the Knicks, while 3 teams all get their 32nd win. What a great boost to finish the season; keep it coming!


----------



## tweedy

1. Memphis
2. Boston
3. Milwaukee
4. Atlanta

5. Seattle (32-50)
at Pho (L)
at Por (W)
at LAL (L)
vs Dal (L)

5. Philadelphia (32-50)
at Bos (W)
vs Orl (L)
at Det (L) 
vs Cle (L)
at Tor (L)

5. New York (32-50)
at NJ (L)
at Tor (L)
vs NJ (L)
at Cha (L)

8. Portland (33-49)
vs Hou (L)
at LAC (W)
vs Sea (L)
at Uta (L)
vs GS (W)

9. Minnesota (33-49)
vs Dal (L)
vs SA (L)
at GS (L)
at Den (L)
vs Mem (W)

10. Charlotte (34-48)
at Chi (L) 
at Mil (W)
vs NY (W)

10. Sacramento (34-48)
at SA (L)
vs GS (L)
at LAC (W)
vs NOK (W)
at LAL (L)

12. Indiana
13. New Orleans/OKC
14. L.A. Clippers


A top 3 pick is more attainable than we thought for most of the season. I don't think the Knicks win another game with Orlando on New Jersey's heels. The Charlotte-NY finale looms large.


----------



## charlietyra

tweedy said:


> 1. Memphis
> 2. Boston
> 3. Milwaukee
> 4. Atlanta
> 
> 5. Seattle (32-50)
> at Pho (L)
> at Por (W)
> at LAL (L)
> vs Dal (L)
> 
> 5. Philadelphia (32-50)
> at Bos (W)
> vs Orl (L)
> at Det (L)
> vs Cle (L)
> at Tor (L)
> 
> 5. New York (32-50)
> at NJ (L)
> at Tor (L)
> vs NJ (L)
> at Cha (L)
> 
> 8. Portland (33-49)
> vs Hou (L)
> at LAC (W)
> vs Sea (L)
> at Uta (L)
> vs GS (W)
> 
> 9. Minnesota (33-49)
> vs Dal (L)
> vs SA (L)
> at GS (L)
> at Den (L)
> vs Mem (W)
> 
> 10. Charlotte (34-48)
> at Chi (L)
> at Mil (W)
> vs NY (W)
> 
> 10. Sacramento (34-48)
> at SA (L)
> vs GS (L)
> at LAC (W)
> vs NOK (W)
> at LAL (L)
> 
> 12. Indiana
> 13. New Orleans/OKC
> 14. L.A. Clippers
> 
> 
> A top 3 pick is more attainable than we thought for most of the season. I don't think the Knicks win another game with Orlando on New Jersey's heels. The Charlotte-NY finale looms large.


I think the Knicks can beat the Nets at home. 

Sorry to say, I actually think most of the other teams have more difficult schedules than the Knicks. Toronto is the best team they play, whereas Seattle (for example) plays Phoenix, Dallas, and the Lakers. Philly has to play Detroit, Cleveland and Toronto. Miny plays Dallas, San Antonion and the hot Nuggets. And so forth...


----------



## narek

kulaz3000 said:


> Batum isn't a 7 footer, his a 6-8 guard/forward who has a 7-1 wingspan, ala Thabo.
> 
> His descriptions and the little clips i've seen him in reminds me alot of Thabo, though Batum seems to be more offensive minded and Thabo a little more defensive. But the bodies and length are unbelievably similar, though Batum is probably the better athelete of the two and seems to have a better vertical.
> 
> Batum is going to be one hellavua prospect. His young, his long, his atheletic and someone is going to take a gamble on him in the lottery i garentee.


The seven footer is on page 2 of the story.



> Alexis Ajinca
> Age: 18
> Position: 7-1 center
> Team: Pau-Orthez (France)
> 
> Ajinca was seen as the other leading NBA candidate, but the consensus was that he needs a lot of work. "He has bad hands,'' said a league GM, whose criticism was widely echoed.
> 
> Ajinca weighed in at 207 pounds. "The way he's built, I don't know if he'll ever gain enough weight,'' a league personnel director said. "A guy like that, as skinny as he is, he'll always be getting hurt.''


He's a guy to watch for the future - 207 pounds at 7'1".


----------



## theanimal23

Perfect day for the pick. All the teams I cheered for won.


----------



## tweedy

charlietyra said:


> Sorry to say, I actually think most of the other teams have more difficult schedules than the Knicks. Toronto is the best team they play, whereas Seattle (for example) plays Phoenix, Dallas, and the Lakers. Philly has to play Detroit, Cleveland and Toronto. Miny plays Dallas, San Antonion and the hot Nuggets. And so forth...


It's wishful thinking, but personally I didn't expect that the Knicks would have a crack at being a bottom 5 team. Their showing tonight was encouraging, to say the least.


----------



## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls!

So, are we officially in the lottery? NYK must be mathematically eliminated!


----------



## yodurk

Anyone know how the tiebreaker is decided for the draft positioning? :biggrin:


----------



## charlietyra

tweedy said:


> It's wishful thinking, but personally I didn't expect that the Knicks would have a crack at being a bottom 5 team. Their showing tonight was encouraging, to say the least.



That 3 pointer by Curry in the Milwaukee game was huge. I am willing to bet that one game will wind up separating the Knicks from two or three other teams at the end of the season.


----------



## tweedy

yodurk said:


> Anyone know how the tiebreaker is decided for the draft positioning? :biggrin:


I think teams with identical records have the same odds for the lottery, but coinflips determine the draft order otherwise.


----------



## JeremyB0001

Maybe the best day of the season.

Looking at the other teams schedules I'm worried because I don't see a ton of winnable games. Thankfully, Charlotte seems to be on fire right now and are at home against the Knicks in the last game of the season. I really have my fingers crossed that the Knicks will manage to lose out. The lineup they fielded tonight seems completely incapable of winning if Curry doesn't have a big game.


----------



## theanimal23

Tweedy is correct regarding draft order.


----------



## tweedy

Since 2001, the bottom 5 or 6 team has earned a top 3 pick six times (Toronto in 2006, Milwaukee and Portland in 2005, Memphis in 2003, Houston in 2002, and Atlanta in 2001), including three #1 overall picks.

New York has been playing the worst among the 31-32 win teams. Seattle unfortunately has a beast of a remaining schedule. Igoudala is also out for the Celtics game.

Oden or Durant, baby. It could happen.


----------



## T.Shock

tweedy said:


> Since 2001, a bottom 5 or 6 team has earned a top 3 pick six times (Toronto in 2006, Milwaukee and Portland in 2005, Memphis in 2003, Houston in 2002, and Atlanta in 2001), including three #1 overall picks.
> 
> New York has been playing the worst among the 31-32 win teams. Seattle unfortunately has a beast of a remaining schedule. Igoudala is also out for the Celtics game.
> 
> Oden or Durant, baby. It could happen.


Imagine the Bulls with Oden. Holy crapola. Wallace/Oden/Tyrus as our big rotation. What is the single season record for blocks by a team? And low post scoring? I'd be scared if I was an Eastern Conference team, just praying the Knicks win out or the Bulls don't end up winning the lottery.


----------



## TripleDouble

T.Shock said:


> Imagine the Bulls with Oden. Holy crapola. Wallace/Oden/Tyrus as our big rotation. What is the single season record for blocks by a team? And low post scoring? I'd be scared if I was an Eastern Conference team, just praying the Knicks win out or the Bulls don't end up winning the lottery.


----------



## spongyfungy

There's a good chance that the Knicks could have the 5th worst record in the league. 

The 8. Knicks are at 32-46. 

7. Bobcats are 32-47 

6. Blazers are 31-46 but they've got a tough schedule remaining

5. Sonics 31-47 Also a tough schedule.

fifth spot has 88 combinations of balls with an 8.8% chance of landing the #1 seed, 9.6% for #2 seed and 10.6% for the #3 seed.


----------



## yodurk

JeremyB0001 said:


> Maybe the best day of the season.
> 
> Looking at the other teams schedules I'm worried because I don't see a ton of winnable games. Thankfully, Charlotte seems to be on fire right now and are at home against the Knicks in the last game of the season. I really have my fingers crossed that the Knicks will manage to lose out. The lineup they fielded tonight seems completely incapable of winning if Curry doesn't have a big game.


I'm awfully glad the Knicks are playing the Cats in that last game. That's one team that won't tank the final game since they are building for next year and not for playoffs.


----------



## The ROY

tweedy said:


> Since 2001, the bottom 5 or 6 team has earned a top 3 pick six times (Toronto in 2006, Milwaukee and Portland in 2005, Memphis in 2003, Houston in 2002, and Atlanta in 2001), including three #1 overall picks.
> 
> New York has been playing the worst among the 31-32 win teams. Seattle unfortunately has a beast of a remaining schedule. Igoudala is also out for the Celtics game.
> 
> Oden or Durant, baby. It could happen.


For some reason, I think something GREAT will happen for us on draft day. I think there was a reason we didn't trade for Gasol. Hell, even if we just landed Spencer Hawes, I'd be pretty damn happy about our offseason. We need low-post scoring and he's the best in college b-ball, I'm sure Paxson has tons of interest in him.


----------



## Frankensteiner

Didn't see this posted and I thought it was a nice write-up on Splitter from draft express:



> It’s a bit of the same story for Tiago Splitter. After poor offensive showings in previous editions, it’s about time for him to show to the crop of the NBA executives what he’s capable of on the basketball court against the cream of the crop of international competition. The semifinals against Olympiacos was just another step in the right direction, more proof of his regained confidence and playing level. After averaging 14 points in the Top-16 round, Splitter wasn’t much of an offensive factor in the first game, settling for 5 points and 5 rebounds. For the second showing, a road game in Piraeus, he perfectly teamed up with Luis Scola to detonate the Greek defense from the paint. The Brazilian had 18 points, 9 rebounds and 2 steals, staying very effective from the field (7/9). He continued with that effectiveness in the ACB League this weekend, going for 17 points, 5 rebounds and 3 steals, with just one missed field goal, although a very clutch three-pointer by Jaka Lakovic ultimately gave the victory to F.C.Barcelona.
> 
> Anyway, his low post skills continue emerging as the most intriguing department of his game as of late. Splitter actively asks for the ball in the paint and doesn’t hesitate to go one-on-one if he enjoys the space to do it. He has developed a nice soft touch with both hands (his left hand is looking excellent lately), also improving his hook shots by putting more air underneath the ball on his release. It means that he doesn’t struggle that much against bigger defenders since he can shoot over them with very nice accuracy. Tiago is no longer looking like a pure off-the-ball player, but he still works very well there, and also is benefiting from his improved stroke to finish pick-and-roll situations, as he delivers effective running-hooks if he finds opposition on his way to the basket.
> 
> Tiago is ready to emerge as a go-to inside player, only a step behind Scola, even replacing him if Luis is on the bench for whatever reason. A good showing in the Final Four should solidify his status as lottery pick.


----------



## theanimal23

Tonight's games look tough for us (Seattle, Portland, Sacto).


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Bulls_Bulls_Bulls! said:


> I agree that the Knicks have enough incentive to stick it to us, but they're obviously lacking in firepower.
> 
> 
> I expect us to win and win comfortably. We have ample incentive, ourselves. If we run the table on the remaining games, we've got the #2 seed, no matter what everyone else does.
> 
> Very interesting to see how we'll handle Eddy, given that's all they've really got, at this point, with all of their injuries.
> 
> Hey, DMD, OT: nice tune! You have excellent taste. I didn't know that you studied with Fareed and Kurt Rosenwinkel. Fareed used to live in Rogers Park, but I think he's moved to the burbs. He's been doing some strange stuff, of late; I really hate his jam band crap (but that's what sells these days, I guess), but he's done some interesting stuff with the Ethnic Heritage Ensemble/AACM types. I'm trying to get guitar lessions from Jack Chicini, but he's all booked up, at the moment.


I actually didn't study with Kurt, just Fareed. Fareed was living in Evanston when I studied with him. 

I took one lesson with Peter Bernstein (my favorite) while I was in New York.

I don't know Jack Chicini's playing but I know the name. That's cool that you play too. Do you play around Chicago?


----------



## rosenthall

Last night was great, but I worry that tonights games will resemble the baby lamb going forth to the slaughter house.

Dallas, SA, Houston and Utah are pretty brutal matchups.


----------



## giusd

I am watching the Dal vs Minny game and KG is not playing??? WTF? This is not the first time Kevin McHale has done nonsense like this. I mean sitting your star player at the end of the year so you team proposely tanks. The NBA should take some action here.

david


----------



## theanimal23

Thanks a lot Minny

How the hell do you lose to a Dallas team that plays nobodies.

And KG you are quite the competitor. You say in the Marc Stein interview you will go all out the last ten games of the year, but its nice to see you "injured" and tanking.


----------



## rwj333

It'd be really nice if we could get 7th spot. There is a world of difference in lottery odds between the 7th spot and the spots after it. 

You have a realistic chance at a top 3 pick if you have one of the worst 7 records. Anything after that and you're basically locked in.


----------



## giusd

It looks to me like every time is going into the big time TANK. KG will sit the lat five games simlar to last year when he sat the last six games. Funny how that works. Sea has a tough schedule and both there PGs are injured and Portland has three starters out. And it looks like Artest is done for the season and SAC also has a rough schedule.

I hate to say this but we are talking the 7th vs 11 pick here and the only team helping us out is CHA.

I guess if the knicks lose there last four there will be come coin flips and we could get the 7th but one more win for the knicks puts us at 10 or 11.

david


----------



## theanimal23

David is correct. I think NYK does win one more and everyone else loses out. We are gonna get the 11th barring some major luck. We need teams that are locked up in their seeding to play scrubs and hope their scrubs are worse than the other team's scrubs.


----------



## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls!

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I actually didn't study with Kurt, just Fareed. Fareed was living in Evanston when I studied with him.
> 
> I took one lesson with Peter Bernstein (my favorite) while I was in New York.
> 
> I don't know Jack Chicini's playing but I know the name. That's cool that you play too. Do you play around Chicago?




Warning! OT: Actually, his name is Jack Cecchini, and I got my first lesson today in a couple of hours. If you google him, you often get university level "guitar type faculty" who note in their CVs that they've studied under "maestro" Jack Cecchini. I'm really excited about it. He has his hands in both the "classical" and "Jazz schools". When I first called him up, he had a guitar in his hand and immediately began playing over the phone, telling me of one of the most difficult concepts of jazz guitar: chordal melody improvisation. He teaches in Andersonville, and I was very lucky to find an available slot. 

I just got a decent intermediate-level jazz box (Heritage American Eagle, from the original Gibson plant in Kalamazoo) and am trying to make myself worthy of it (one day, when I'm better, I'l get a Wes Montgomery L5); it seems that I'm always in the "woodsheddin" phase and need some structure and guidance; right now, when my friends hear me play, they note that I'm that guy who makes those "jazz type runs". I find myself too many times running scales, which is probably the worst thing anybody could to, I think. Hence, the need to practice, pratice, pratice (Where's the time??j. If you have any basic advice on organizing principles/structures/methodolgies for practice, please feel free to PM me. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. 


My preferred instrument is nylon or classical guitar. Hence, the preferred style: sans plectum. The problem is that music, as music, can't hold a candle to Johnny Hodges, Bird, et al., and the nylon string guitarists who play jazz are, quite frankly, aweful (e.g., Ralph Towner, Charlie Byrd). EXCEPTION: Baden Powell, the Brazillian guitarist who died several years ago--a-m-a-z-i-n-g!!!
By the way, people used to confuse me for Fareed quite often; I don't know why, except that he resembles my brother (actually, he's almost a dead wringer, except he's several years older). Other than that, he's a really short guy, maybe 6-10" shorter than me. Go figure. 

While I would consider myself as an amateur, Chicago has got some very interesting guitarists definitely worth checking out: Mike Allemania (plays with Von Freeman); John Mulder (sometimes can be seen around town playing with Paul Wertico, the ex-Pat Metheny drummer), Jeff Parker (plays with, among others, Tortise and Eernest Dawkins New Horizons Ensemble), John McLean (can be seen accompanying the Polish jazz singer whose name currently escapes me..)

Now, so as I don't feel guilty about posting all this irrevant info, I'll just say (1) "Zeeke sucks"; (2) oh, and Pax: if you can't get the player you want and become worried about drafting a stiff, trade the damn pick!; (3) not having been following the college game, is Spencer Hawyes the 2nd coming of Bill Wennington?? There, that's much better.


----------



## theanimal23

ESPN Lottery Game has us taking B. Wright @ 8. I would love it if he dropped to us. Wow.


----------



## The ROY

theanimal23 said:


> ESPN Lottery Game has us taking B. Wright @ 8. I would love it if he dropped to us. Wow.


no way he'd even go past 4

hell, we'd be lucky to get spencer hawes at 8


----------



## JeremyB0001

The ROY said:


> no way he'd even go past 4


It's not terribly likely - Chad still has him at 4 on the big board - but the scenario on the simulator is not inconcievable.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1

Current DraftExpress mock (obviously not subject to actual lottery order and not yet adjusted for team need)



2007 1st Round Mock - Full Mock 
# Team Player 
1 Grizzlies Greg Oden 
C, 19 years old, 7'0", 260 lbs.
Ohio State, Freshman 
2 Celtics Kevin Durant 
SF/PF, 18 years old, 6'10", 225 lbs.
Texas, Freshman 
3 Bucks Brandan Wright 
PF, 19 years old, 6'10", 210 lbs.
North Carolina, Freshman 
4 Suns
From
Hawks Al Horford 
PF/C, 20 years old, 6'10", 235 lbs.
Florida, Junior 
5 SuperSonics Roy Hibbert 
C, 20 years old, 7'2", 272 lbs.
Georgetown, Junior 
6 Trailblazers Joakim Noah 
PF/C, 22 years old, 6'11", 227 lbs.
Florida, Junior 
7 Bobcats Corey Brewer 
SF, 21 years old, 6'9", 185 lbs.
Florida, Junior 
8 Bulls
From
Knicks Julian Wright 
SF/PF, 19 years old, 6'8", 210 lbs.
Kansas, Sophomore 
9 76ers Yi Jianlian 
PF/C, 19 years old, 7'0", 230 lbs.
Guangdong Tigers, International 
10 Timberwolves Mike Conley Jr 
PG, 19 years old, 6'1", 180 lbs.
Ohio State, Freshman 
11 Kings Tiago Splitter 
PF/C, 22 years old, 7'0", 245 lbs.
TAU Vitoria, International 
12 Hawks
From
Pacers Nicolas Batum 
SF, 18 years old, 6'8", 209 lbs.
Le Mans Sarthe Basket, International 
13 Hornets Spencer Hawes 
C, 18 years old, 7'0", 240 lbs.
Washington, Freshman


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1

nbadraft.net mock (same caveats)


1. Memphis Greg Oden 7-0 250 C Ohio St. Fr. 
2. Boston Kevin Durant 6-10 220 SF Texas Fr. 
3. Milwaukee Brandan Wright 6-10 210 PF UNC Fr. 
4. *Phoenix Al Horford 6-9 245 PF Florida Jr. 
5. Charlotte Yi Jianlian 7-0 230 PF China 1984 
6. Seattle Corey Brewer 6-8 185 SF Florida Jr. 
7. Philadelphia Jeff Green 6-8 235 SF Georgetown Jr. 
8. Portland Roy Hibbert 7-2 278 C Georgetown Jr. 
9. Sacramento Julian Wright 6-8 225 SF Kansas So. 
10. *Chicago Nicolas Batum 6-8 210 SG France 1988 
11. *Minnesota Joakim Noah 6-11 230 PF Florida Jr. 
12. *Atlanta
Mike Conley 6-1 180 PG Ohio St. Fr.


----------



## SALO

I think Noah will fall towards the bottom half of the lottery (picks 7-14) and we'll be fortunate enough to grab him without having to move up.

I'd try to move up a few spots in the 2nd round and take Glen Davis. 

If we could buy a 1st rounder from someone picking in the 20's I like Rudy Fernandez.


----------



## chifaninca

Pass on Glenn Davis.........we've had those type of guys and they don't last (Lonny Baxter come to mind - Not same player, but same impact).

As for Noah, If he and Hawes were available, I think I'd go Hawes at this point. I really think Noah is gonna drop if Phoenix doesn't grab him. He's Tyson Chandler with less impact. I'm am really down on Noah. I thought he'd show up with some semblance of an offensive game this season and he didn't. How many times can he and Thomas dunk the same ball, while standing in the same area. We need someone who isn't offensively challenged. 

If it's Noah or trade down, I'd love to see us go after Bogut (trade pick and salaries) as someone else mentioned.


----------



## darlets

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> nbadraft.net mock (same caveats)
> 
> 
> 1. Memphis Greg Oden 7-0 250 C Ohio St. Fr.
> 2. Boston Kevin Durant 6-10 220 SF Texas Fr.
> 3. Milwaukee Brandan Wright 6-10 210 PF UNC Fr.
> 4. *Phoenix Al Horford 6-9 245 PF Florida Jr.
> 5. Charlotte Yi Jianlian 7-0 230 PF China 1984
> 6. Seattle Corey Brewer 6-8 185 SF Florida Jr.
> 7. Philadelphia Jeff Green 6-8 235 SF Georgetown Jr.
> 8. Portland Roy Hibbert 7-2 278 C Georgetown Jr.
> 9. Sacramento Julian Wright 6-8 225 SF Kansas So.
> 10. *Chicago Nicolas Batum 6-8 210 SG France 1988
> 11. *Minnesota Joakim Noah 6-11 230 PF Florida Jr.
> 12. *Atlanta
> Mike Conley 6-1 180 PG Ohio St. Fr.


I've got everything crossed the Knicks don't win another game.

Seatle and Portland are 1 game behind in the Win total but they play each other, so one of them has to win and put them equal.

Bobcats play the knicks the last game so they can pass them if they win that. They also play the bucks.

Minny play the grizzles the last game so they should win that.

They could finish equal 6th with two other teams so we can be ranked 6th-8th. Every position higher gets you lots more balls in the lottery for 3 draws.


----------



## theanimal23

Who are the guys you would want us taking in the 2nd round?

If both are available at 8, Hawes or B. Wright?


----------



## THEbigO

i dont think wright will be there. but if they were both there id take wright.

my question is. if both are there do you take hawes or hibbert? based strictly on where hibbert is being taken in mocks it seems like people like hibbert more...aside from people on this board.


----------



## theanimal23

I take Hawes over Hibbert.


----------



## darlets

theanimal23 said:


> Who are the guys you would want us taking in the 2nd round?
> 
> If both are available at 8, Hawes or B. Wright?


I hope he trades our picks 44, 50 and another asset for a higher pick. (Seatle 31st pick for example) Nbadraft has Aaron Gray and Jason Smith floating around there. A long with a quality big from higher in the draft, we could do with a back up centre that could play 10 a night. Just some size.


----------



## theanimal23

darlets said:


> I hope he trades our picks 44, 50 and another asset for a higher pick. (Seatle 31st pick for example) Nbadraft has Aaron Gray and Jason Smith floating around there. A long with a quality big from higher in the draft, we could do with a back up centre that could play 10 a night. Just some size.


I agree. Also Herbert Hill or Kyle Visser.


----------



## rosenthall

For things to pan out the way most people on this board hope they do, I think we're going to have to win out the rest of our games, and NY is going to have to lose out the rest of theirs.

I know this is pretty rudimentary, but to put some concrete numbers to it, I think the chances of both of those scenarios happening for us would go something like this:

NY's chance of losing next four games: 5/8 (@NJ) 9/10 (vs. Toronto) 4/8 (vs. NJ) 5/8 (@ Charlotte)

NY's total chances of losing next four games: roughly 1/6

Chicago's chances of winning next 3 games: 4/5 (vs. Charlotte) 3/4 (vs. Washington) 3/5 (@NJ)

Total chances of Chicago winning out: roughly 1/3

Chances of both NY losing out and us winning out: 1/18.

I suppose you can disagree with the individual numbers, but I think that sounds more or less right.

If anyone else wants to put their own numbers to these games, I'd like to see it.

And if my statistical reasoning is flawed at all, feel free to correct it.


----------



## darlets

theanimal23 said:


> I agree. Also Herbert Hill or Kyle Visser.


Yeah, there's still going to be some size with good enough skill to be a back up around that point in the draft.

Our big man stocks next year are:
Wallace, TT and Allen I think.
P.J might come back.


----------



## The ROY

chifaninca said:


> I really think Noah is gonna drop if Phoenix doesn't grab him. He's Tyson Chandler with less impact.


I disagree

He has MUCH more of an impact on BOTH ends of the floor than Tyson Chandler EVER had..WHy? Not only does he block shots, but he can guard 1-5 on defense and he gets steals pretty damn easily for a 6-11 player. Offensively, he has better hands than Chandler, is stronger at finishing, can pass out of the double team very well and sets up players in transition and ALSO can finish on his own in transition.

Chandler is a very bad comparison.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1

chifaninca said:


> Pass on Glenn Davis.........we've had those type of guys and they don't last (Lonny Baxter come to mind - Not same player, but same impact).
> 
> As for Noah, If he and Hawes were available, I think I'd go Hawes at this point. I really think Noah is gonna drop if Phoenix doesn't grab him. He's Tyson Chandler with less impact. I'm am really down on Noah. I thought he'd show up with some semblance of an offensive game this season and he didn't. How many times can he and Thomas dunk the same ball, while standing in the same area. We need someone who isn't offensively challenged.
> 
> If it's Noah or trade down, I'd love to see us go after Bogut (trade pick and salaries) as someone else mentioned.


Gotta say I'm not much of a Noah fan.


----------



## Rhyder

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Gotta say I'm not much of a Noah fan.


How can you not love you some of this?

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bQ3y5hTHuP4"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bQ3y5hTHuP4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>


----------



## King Joseus

Rhyder said:


> How can you not love you some of this?
> 
> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bQ3y5hTHuP4"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bQ3y5hTHuP4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>


uke:


----------



## The ROY

I'd be ok with the 10th pick. I'm sure if we added our 2nd rounders + filler (Khyarapa, Duhon etc.), we could move up maybe a SPOT or two if we trade with a team that's rebuilding and needs as many assets as possible (Kings, Minnesota, Philly etc.)


----------



## SALO

Rhyder said:


> How can you not love you some of this?


Horford is supposed to be 6'9" and Noah 6'11" but the difference in height was minimal when they were standing next to each other. It's only a few seconds at the very beginning and very end of the video where you'll be able to notice.

If Horford comes in around 6'10" w/shoes I don't see why teams couldn't play him at center. Look at his frame and you'll see he could easily add more bulk, but the kid already looks pretty strong. I mean Antonio Davis was a borderline all-star for years playing the center position at 6'9" 245lbs.


----------



## theanimal23

SALO said:


> Horford is supposed to be 6'9" and Noah 6'11" but the difference in height was minimal when they were standing next to each other. It's only a few seconds at the very beginning and very end of the video where you'll be able to notice.
> 
> If Horford comes in around 6'10" w/shoes I don't see why teams couldn't play him at center. Look at his frame and you'll see he could easily add more bulk, but the kid already looks pretty strong. I mean Antonio Davis was a borderline all-star for years playing the center position at 6'9" 245lbs.


If Horford is 6'10 or like 6'9.75", he or Brandan Wright are the must-get players after the big two. I personally like Horford, but Wright has an enormous wingspan. Horford is already built, and you have to hope Wright can add that weight. I would love either one next to Tyrus.


----------



## giusd

Knicks in total MELTDOWN again tonight and fall to 32 and 47 with games at Toronto (who are smoking hot), at NJ (that wiped them out by 20 tonight), and finally at CHA. That game could make the difference between the 6/7th pick and 9th/10th pick. But CHA has played very well against the knicks and they are at home and i think 32 and 50 seems likely as does the 6th pick.

david


----------



## RoRo

green and hibbert make it offical
i am a link


----------



## yodurk

I was a bit worried about today's game since the Nets played last night while the Knicks are fresh. But the Knicks are getting walloped pretty good anyways, so this is looking like another 'L' for them.

Knicks have 3 games left now; the next one is probably a loss by heading up to Toronto. They host the Nets for a game (their best chance of one final win, IMO) before going into Charlotte against a Bobcats team that's healthy and playing well (edit: now that I looked, the Cats are actually pretty banged up: Morrison, Wallace, & May all out). 

We just really need Portland, Seattle, Minnesota, and Sacramento to step it up!


----------



## darlets

giusd said:


> Knicks in total MELTDOWN again tonight and fall to 32 and 47 with games at Toronto (who are smoking hot), at NJ (that wiped them out by 20 tonight), and finally at CHA. That game could make the difference between the 6/7th pick and 9th/10th pick. But CHA has played very well against the knicks and they are at home and i think 32 and 50 seems likely as does the 6th pick.
> 
> david


Fingers crossed.

Bobcats should draw ahed if they win the last game. Minny has grizzles to come. Portland and Seatle play so one of them has to get to 32 wins.

We might get the 6th/7th on a toss of the coin. Portland N.Y equals on 32 wins.


----------



## theanimal23

I just want the other teams, especially the ones out West to win one more!


----------



## Headfake98

I hope knicks lose out, we might get high enough to get Yi Jianlian or whatever his name is, the 7 foot PF/C from china. From what I've seen, he could work out nicely for us.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WAan4mo1U9Q"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WAan4mo1U9Q" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>


----------



## yodurk

How about this little tidbit from the Knicks game? Looks like Jared's learned a trick or two from Mr. Curry:

"Jared Jeffries was called for a flagrant foul late in the third quarter for a *chopping blow to Carter's groin.*" 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2007041317


----------



## theanimal23

The thing I'm afraid of:
1. None of the teams out West (Sacto, Minny, Ptl, and Sea) win enough to move past the Knicks.
2. Wiz win, NJ lose, so NJ feels that they have nothing to play for vs NYK on Mon. I rather have them feel that way on Wed when we play them.
3. Cha losing to Mil and NYK.

Ptl and Sea play each other. Both have the same number of wins at 31, but Sea has two more losses than NYK, Portland has 1 more. Both are 1 win behind NYK. One of them will get the win, but can they get another win after that? 

Sonics are where want to be if we want a true shot at Oden, which is the 6th "seed." Sonics do play LAL and some top Western team at the end of the year who may not play their starters the last game. Portland plays GSW and some other team that will play competitive ball still.

I don't bank on Minny winning anything without KG. Sacto plays enough games left that I have to think they can win one more.

End Result could be a 4 way tie between Minny, NYK, Sea, and PTL if PTL beats Sea. Otherwise, Portland ahead of NYK, Sea, and Minny (whom would be tied). 

It is very important for NYK to lose out.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Sacramento is making a huge run. They were down more than 20 in the first half I believe. They've cut it to 7. They have a better chance of winning tonight. It looks like they're playing with their full team, and they're at home. Portland is one the road without Aldridge or Randolph. What's up with Zach?


----------



## RoRo

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Sacramento is making a huge run. They were down more than 20 in the first half I believe. They've cut it to 7. They have a better chance of winning tonight. It looks like they're playing with their full team, and they're at home. Portland is one the road without Aldridge or Randolph. What's up with Zach?


:O omg a 40pt quarter for Sacto!

oh wait the warriors had a 42pt quarter just before them lol.


----------



## The ROY

Headfake98 said:


> I hope knicks lose out, we might get high enough to get Yi Jianlian or whatever his name is, the 7 foot PF/C from china. From what I've seen, he could work out nicely for us.
> 
> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WAan4mo1U9Q"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WAan4mo1U9Q" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>



He's more SF than anything else...

definintely not a C...whatsoever...


----------



## theanimal23

*Games remaining and current records:*

*NYK (32-47):* Tor, NJ, Cha --> Win 1 at best
*Cha (32-48):* Mil, NYK --> Should win at least 1
*Min (32-47):* GS, Den, Mem --> Lose out, yes, even to Mem
*Sea (31-48):* Por, LAL, Dal --> Win 1 or 2 (Ptl/Dal)
*Por (31-47):* Sea, Utah, GS --> Win 1 (unless the Utah game means nothing)
*Sacto (32-47):* LAC, NOK, LAL --> Hoping for 1, but I think they get a donut.
*76ers (33-45):* Orl, Det, CLE, Tor --> 1 or 2 (Det looks likely)

The Sea vs Por game tomorrow will get one team tied with NYK in terms of wins, but we need NYK to lose out. If Sea wins tomorrow, I think they can pass the Knicks because Dallas' last game means nothing. If Portland wins tomorrow, then we could have a tie between NYK, Por, and Sea. Min will be tied or have a worst record than NYK. Charlotte should pass them. Sacto will tie. 

Could have a tie between five teams: NYK, Por, Sea, Min, and Sacto *IF* NYK loses out.


----------



## The ROY

Someone break it down :

BEST CASE and WORST CASE SCENARIO?

6th-11th?


----------



## theanimal23

The ROY said:


> Someone break it down :
> 
> BEST CASE and WORST CASE SCENARIO?
> 
> 6th-11th?


Sounds about right. I think we'll get a top 10, but the coinflips might decide where it is exactly at.


----------



## The ROY

theanimal23 said:


> Sounds about right. I think we'll get a top 10, but the coinflips might decide where it is exactly at.


I wonder how much the thought of trading this pick cross Paxson's mind. With the possibility of Noah falling, we'll land a decent big in the 6-10 range REGARDLESS.

All the big's we NEEDED to declare are declaring :

Oden
Horford
Jianlian
Hibbert
Hawes
Noah
Durant
Splitter

AND the smaller big's :

J. Wright
Brewer
Green
Batum

Only one still on the fence now is Brandan Wright.


----------



## theanimal23

As long as we don't take Noah, I'll be happy. 

Outside the big two, my order is this:
Horford/B. Wright
Horford/B. Wright
Hawes

We are almost sure to get one of them. If those three are taken, that means Yi or Hibbert might be available. I'll take one of them. Although Yi isn't a "center", he does bring height.

My question is, who the hell does Phx take? I say they go with Horford or Wright, as they would fill the role of backing up Amare for now. Horford could provide the toughness of Kurt Thomas but with athleticism.


----------



## The ROY

Phoenix was said to have been in love with Noah for quite some time now.

He's pretty much PERFECT for their system. He runs, can run the break, plays excels at an up-tempo pace. Noah is NOT a half-court type of baller. Also, with the recent COMPLAINING of Shawn Marion, I wouldn't be surprised if he was moved and Noah's was made Center.

Can't really say who my choices are, if Wright enters, he's the 3rd pick regardless. Horford will go somewhere between 4-7. I can definintely see Noah falling but um, since we did find out Pax would have taken Noah LAST year, I wouldn't be surprised if he wound up a Bull. Yes, Hawes fills more of a need but Noah is a proven winner and we KNOW Paxson's record. He's a defensive player that has unique skills for a 6"11 player and it's not like we can't find a scoring big elsewhere (2nd rounders, khyrapa, duhon, MLE etc.).

I'd personally love seeing Hinrich, Deng, Gordon, Thomas & Noah on the fastbreak. That would be fun as hell.

I'd prefer Hawes though.


----------



## TripleDouble

The ROY said:


> Phoenix was said to have been in love with Noah for quite some time now.
> 
> He's pretty much PERFECT for their system. He runs, can run the break, plays excels at an up-tempo pace. Noah is NOT a half-court type of baller. Also, with the recent COMPLAINING of Shawn Marion, I wouldn't be surprised if he was moved and Noah's was made Center.
> 
> Can't really say who my choices are, if Wright enters, he's the 3rd pick regardless. Horford will go somewhere between 4-7. I can definintely see Noah falling but um, since we did find out Pax would have taken Noah LAST year, I wouldn't be surprised if he wound up a Bull. Yes, Hawes fills more of a need but Noah is a proven winner and we KNOW Paxson's record. He's a defensive player that has unique skills for a 6"11 player and it's not like we can't find a scoring big elsewhere (2nd rounders, khyrapa, duhon, MLE etc.).
> 
> I'd personally love seeing Hinrich, Deng, Gordon, Thomas & Noah on the fastbreak. That would be fun as hell.
> 
> I'd prefer Hawes though.


First, I think Noah will be a bust if draft in the lottery. He has no useful big man skills and his jump shot isn't good enough to allow him to be a perimeter big, he is skinny as heck, he has no frame to add weight. How is he going to contribute enough to justify being a lottery pick?

Second, which scoring big will push this team over the top that will be available for second rounders, Khyrapa, Duhon or the MLE?

The Knicks pick is the Bulls chance to put the finishing touches on what could be a great team for years to come. That finishing touch is a bonifide big man who can at least keep opposing post defenses honest.


----------



## giusd

I think the bulls really need a big man who can score and draw a double ream once in a while and that is more important than defensive and scoring. My guess Pax will have to decide between Hawes and Hibbert. But Hawes will like be Pax first pick of the two. But i really like Hibbert. He lost 30 some pounds this year and by all reports is a really hard worker and he has great size, a very good BB IQ, and very soft hands and i think the makes up for his kind of flat footed sytle of play. He reminds me of the center for the Jazz like 10 years ago. A really big tall white guy for the Jazz but i cant remember his name.

david


----------



## bullybullz

giusd said:


> I think the bulls really need a big man who can score and draw a double ream once in a while and that is more important than defensive and scoring. My guess Pax will have to decide between Hawes and Hibbert. But Hawes will like be Pax first pick of the two. But i really like Hibbert. He lost 30 some pounds this year and by all reports is a really hard worker and he has great size, a very good BB IQ, and very soft hands and i think the makes up for his kind of flat footed sytle of play. He reminds me of the center for the Jazz like 10 years ago. A really big tall white guy for the Jazz but i cant remember his name.
> 
> david


No that can't be, you must not mean Greg Ostertag or Greg Foster!!


----------



## charlietyra

giusd said:


> I think the bulls really need a big man who can score and draw a double ream once in a while and that is more important than defensive and scoring. My guess Pax will have to decide between Hawes and Hibbert. But Hawes will like be Pax first pick of the two. But i really like Hibbert. He lost 30 some pounds this year and by all reports is a really hard worker and he has great size, a very good BB IQ, and very soft hands and i think the makes up for his kind of flat footed sytle of play. He reminds me of the center for the Jazz like 10 years ago. A really big tall white guy for the Jazz but i cant remember his name.
> 
> david


Mark Eaton. 

I was just thinking about him the other day. About 15 years ago I went to an NBA awards dinner in Chicago where there were a lot of NBA players who attended, including a few seven footers (e.g. John Salley). Then in walked this guy who I swear was the biggest human being I have ever seen. It was Mark Eaton. He wasn't called "Mount Eaton" for nothing. He was 7'4" tall and just a huge man. I was awed.


----------



## yodurk

OT, but I agree that Joakim Noah would be flat-out SCARY in the Phoenix system. He gives them the long interior defender that they need and he will get out in transition and score easy buckets. They aren't many better fits for him than playing with Nash and Amare.

As for us, I would be thrilled if we end up with the 6th or 7th pick. I think we get a solid center prospect there, whether it's Hibbert or Hawes or whoever. My gut tells me Hibbert will be mediocre at best, but I really need to learn more about Hawes. I hear he's pretty skilled and may have the type of potential to score around 15 a night (after some NBA seasoning of course).


----------



## giusd

HI thanks,

Yes Mak Eaton was who i was thinking of. That is who Hibbet reminds me of all i think Hibbert has better offensive skills. I only watched Hibbert a couple of times but he played very tough against Oden in the East Finals and he seems like a real High IQ player.

david


----------



## theanimal23

I disagree with you guys. I think Al Horford would be amazing in Phoenix. Now if they are looking for a Marion replacement, well that would be hard to find, as he is a very unique player. Say they want a SF, I think 4-5ish is too high to pick one. They are prolly willing to drop down a few spots and would pick Brewer or Batum. 

In terms of us, it depends who Pax likes, but I think he will choose between Horford, B. Wright, and Hawes. Splitter could be a possibility. Hibbert will be too slow for us. If he is the BPA at our slot, we'll take him though.

I think Noah will be garbage. I could see Noah as being the guy who drops in this draft.

While I think it was a Sam Smith Q&A that said we would have taken Noah, I read a quote over in RealGM in a Tyrus thread that said that Pax thought Tyrus was clearly the most talented player in the draft. I doubt Noah is more talented than Tyrus. But we'll never know.


----------



## Orange Julius Irving

theanimal23 said:


> *Games remaining and current records:*
> 
> *NYK (32-47):* Tor, NJ, Cha --> Win 1 at best
> *Cha (32-48):* Mil, NYK --> Should win at least 1
> *Min (32-47):* GS, Den, Mem --> Lose out, yes, even to Mem
> *Sea (31-48):* Por, LAL, Dal --> Win 1 or 2 (Ptl/Dal)
> *Por (31-47):* Sea, Utah, GS --> Win 1 (unless the Utah game means nothing)
> *Sacto (32-47):* LAC, NOK, LAL --> Hoping for 1, but I think they get a donut.
> *76ers (33-45):* Orl, Det, CLE, Tor --> 1 or 2 (Det looks likely)
> 
> The Sea vs Por game tomorrow will get one team tied with NYK in terms of wins, but we need NYK to lose out. If Sea wins tomorrow, I think they can pass the Knicks because Dallas' last game means nothing. If Portland wins tomorrow, then we could have a tie between NYK, Por, and Sea. Min will be tied or have a worst record than NYK. Charlotte should pass them. Sacto will tie.
> 
> Could have a tie between five teams: NYK, Por, Sea, Min, and Sacto *IF* NYK loses out.


Interesting that you think Minny will loose out as well and that Seattle can win 2.

I had Sacto going O'Fer and I'll tell you this, I don't know how we lost 2, not just one, but BOTH Games against Sacto. That right there were 2 of the biggest losses of the season right along with losing to Memphis.

Anywayy, I see Charlotte winning their last 2, since it seems like they are really trying to win. The Sixers should win enough to stay ahead of NY as well.

I agree though that Minnie may loose out but I find it hard to believe they will loose to Memphis, so if NY looses out, Minny can get 1 game ahead with 1 win.

Can Sacto beat the LAL? Will Utah rest it's starters allowing Portland to win there? 

I would think Dallas' scrubs can still take out Seattle, so I am hoping Seattle wins at Portland and then Portland picks one up elsewhere.


----------



## The ROY

TripleDouble said:


> Second, which scoring big will push this team over the top that will be available for second rounders, Khyrapa, Duhon or the MLE?


None will push us 'over' the top in that round but if we can get some decent offensive big's, we'll atleast be in much better position. If we go into next season as a jump-shooting team again, we'll just be making it harder on ourselves.


----------



## The ROY

yodurk said:


> My gut tells me Hibbert will be mediocre at best, but I really need to learn more about Hawes. I hear he's pretty skilled and may have the type of potential to score around 15 a night (after some NBA seasoning of course).


Hawes has the long term potential to be one of the best scoring big's in the entire league. NOBODY in the NBA now has his array of post moves besides maybe Yao Ming.


----------



## The ROY

theanimal23 said:


> I disagree with you guys. I think Al Horford would be amazing in Phoenix. Now if they are looking for a Marion replacement, well that would be hard to find, as he is a very unique player. Say they want a SF, I think 4-5ish is too high to pick one. They are prolly willing to drop down a few spots and would pick Brewer or Batum.
> 
> In terms of us, it depends who Pax likes, but I think he will choose between Horford, B. Wright, and Hawes. Splitter could be a possibility. Hibbert will be too slow for us. If he is the BPA at our slot, we'll take him though.
> 
> I think Noah will be garbage. I could see Noah as being the guy who drops in this draft.
> 
> While I think it was a Sam Smith Q&A that said we would have taken Noah, I read a quote over in RealGM in a Tyrus thread that said that Pax thought Tyrus was clearly the most talented player in the draft. I doubt Noah is more talented than Tyrus. But we'll never know.


Horford is the better player but Noah is easily a better fit for Phoenix's style of play. His size and quickness on defense will allow Amare the freeness to roam and block more shots. On offense, he gives them ANOTHER ballhandler & will space the floor well enough for Amare to operate.

I'll put money on it that Noah's their guy.


----------



## theanimal23

ROY, have you seen Hawes play?

Out of curiosity, why is he dropping in mock drafts to double digit slots? If he is as good as people say offensively? 

I can understand why he is behind the following: Oden, Durant, Horford, B. Wright, Noah (He is a Winner), Yi (who knows what to expect), Brewer/Green (some team will need a SF).

If you go by that, it makes sense if he'd fall to us 9-10ish, but I feel like an adept 7 footer should go higher. Now I have no complaints if we grab a guy who has he skill level of being a top 5 pick at the 9-10th slot.


----------



## The ROY

theanimal23 said:


> ROY, have you seen Hawes play?
> 
> Out of curiosity, why is he dropping in mock drafts to double digit slots? If he is as good as people say offensively?
> 
> I can understand why he is behind the following: Oden, Durant, Horford, B. Wright, Noah (He is a Winner), Yi (who knows what to expect), Brewer/Green (some team will need a SF).
> 
> If you go by that, it makes sense if he'd fall to us 9-10ish, but I feel like an adept 7 footer should go higher. Now I have no complaints if we grab a guy who has he skill level of being a top 5 pick at the 9-10th slot.


The tournament does alot for your stock. If Hawes played atleast 2 rounds with respectable numbers, he wouldn't even go lower than 10. But to an extent, he's become forgotten. I'd be thrilled if we landed him because of his current stock. The league would be doing themselves a serious disservice to let Hawes become our future center. His just so ahead of his time offensively, I can't see him going too low, especially when he starts workouts.

I like Hibbert because he's a smart player but overall, he's not very impressive @ anything besides passing. At the same time, Hibbert (or Hawes) & Thomas for Eddy Curry works out just fine for me.


----------



## theanimal23

The ROY said:


> Horford is the better player but Noah is easily a better fit for Phoenix's style of play. His size and quickness on defense will allow Amare the freeness to roam and block more shots. On offense, he gives them ANOTHER ballhandler & will space the floor well enough for Amare to operate.
> 
> I'll put money on it that Noah's their guy.


I could see them going with B. Wright too. You made your case about Noah, and I can see that happening. The thing is, with their system, I don't think they can go wrong with who they pick. Maybe they'll use their other first rounders to move up and grab Al Thornton. Who knows.


----------



## theanimal23

The ROY said:


> The tournament does alot for your stock. If Hawes played atleast 2 rounds with respectable numbers, he wouldn't even go lower than 10. But to an extent, he's become forgotten. I'd be thrilled if we landed him because of his current stock. The league would be doing themselves a serious disservice to let Hawes become our future center. His just so ahead of his time offensively, I can't see him going too low, especially when he starts workouts.
> 
> I like Hibbert because he's a smart player but overall, he's not very impressive @ anything besides passing. At the same time, Hibbert (or Hawes) & Thomas for Eddy Curry works out just fine for me.


I agree on all points. My problem is, I feel that things are too good to be true regarding Hawes. I mean, if this kid is this good at the age of 18/19 offensively (having a strong foundation), its a matter of just bulking up and learning the game. Hopefully he is a smart player too. From what I read, he seems perfect. Can hit the J, is good with the pick n'roll, a solid passer, and an ARRAY of post-moves. If he is as good as advertised, he alone could be better than Eddy Curry.

I hope we slide to 6-7th overall to have a shot at the big two. Otherwise I'll be perfectly fine at 8. You never know who may fall in a draft. Maybe we get extremely lucky, or we have a perfect fit waiting for us.

I'll take Hawes over Hibbert. Hibbert is not a bad consolidation prize for just moving up 12 spots, but I see more potential out of Hawes.


----------



## The ROY

theanimal23 said:


> I could see them going with B. Wright too. You made your case about Noah, and I can see that happening. The thing is, with their system, I don't think they can go wrong with who they pick. Maybe they'll use their other first rounders to move up and grab Al Thornton. Who knows.


With Diaw's ability at the SF position, I can't seem them having a strong need for an SF. They ultimately want to move Stoudamire back to PF so they'd definintely be going big IMO.


----------



## The ROY

theanimal23 said:


> I agree on all points. My problem is, I feel that things are too good to be true regarding Hawes. I mean, if this kid is this good at the age of 18/19 offensively (having a strong foundation), its a matter of just bulking up and learning the game. Hopefully he is a smart player too. From what I read, he seems perfect. Can hit the J, is good with the pick n'roll, a solid passer, and an ARRAY of post-moves. If he is as good as advertised, he alone could be better than Eddy Curry.
> 
> I hope we slide to 6-7th overall to have a shot at the big two. Otherwise I'll be perfectly fine at 8. You never know who may fall in a draft. Maybe we get extremely lucky, or we have a perfect fit waiting for us.
> 
> I'll take Hawes over Hibbert. Hibbert is not a bad consolidation prize for just moving up 12 spots, but I see more potential out of Hawes.


I don't feel like it's to good to be true, bottom line is, he's an oustanding offensive player and easily the best at that level. Defensively, he's gonna need some work, as will his rebounding at this level. He'll need to add some weight to that frame but the overall outlook on him is incredibly bright IMO. He pretty much understands his scoring abilities and knows he's tough to stop. Listen to a few of his interviews, dude is very smart and I feel like he's exactly the type of player Paxson would want.

But we'll see.


----------



## JeremyB0001

theanimal23 said:


> I agree on all points. My problem is, I feel that things are too good to be true regarding Hawes. I mean, if this kid is this good at the age of 18/19 offensively (having a strong foundation), its a matter of just bulking up and learning the game. Hopefully he is a smart player too. From what I read, he seems perfect. Can hit the J, is good with the pick n'roll, a solid passer, and an ARRAY of post-moves. If he is as good as advertised, he alone could be better than Eddy Curry.


It's because he's not a great athlete. Athletically, he's probably more like Brad Miller or Magloire than Curry.


----------



## RoRo

speaking of hawes, here's a local seattle story about him.
from the handful of games i've seen, his passing ability stands out the most.

'Sonic's Hawes' has nice ring...



> The last time a 7-footer had his combination of dual-handed passing and shooting skills, Arvydas Sabonis controlled the paint for the Portland Trail Blazers. But Hawes has knees that work and is well shy of his physical prime.


----------



## step

> The last time a 7-footer had his combination of dual-handed passing and shooting skills, Arvydas Sabonis controlled the paint for the Portland Trail Blazers. But Hawes has knees that work and is well shy of his physical prime.


That's one lofty expectation.


----------



## theanimal23

'Cats win! They are officially one game ahead of NYK. 

Ptl leading Seattle. I don't think Portland will win any more past this. 

Seattle could/should beat Dallas' scrubs, but you never know. I'll be happy if one of Portland or Seattle passes NYK. 

We could end up with a 3 way tie for the 5th pick between NYK, Ptl, Sacto, and Minny.

Hoping NYK loses out witht the following:
Two Seattle wins (Ptl and Dal)
One Sac Win (3 games remaining)
Min can beat Memphis the last day (I don't think it will happen)

And we can have the 6th pick. (Portland would have 5). I rather have Portland ahead of you, than be potentially behind 3-4 teams due to coin flips. Plus I would think (haven't done the calculations) that we'll have a higher shot at Oden at 6, than splitting the lotto balls between 4 teams.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

First off, just because Hawes's projections are just a little bit lower than they were earlier this year doesn't mean they will stay there. Think about the leap a player like Luke Jackson made a few years back. After the college season ended, he was projected as a late 1st round pick, but he managed to make his way up the #10 pick with strong workouts. Hawes may well impress in workouts, plus he may be coveted by Pacific Northwest franchises Seattle and Portland. Both of those teams might end up picking just in front of New York.

Cleveland just murdered Atlanta tonight. Did we expect anything else?

Thereafter, Charlotte helped us out bigtime by winning tonight. Charlotte now has one more win and one more loss than New York. New York is now tied for the seventh worst record, but they're tied with three other teams.

Somebody is going to win tonight, Portland or Seattle, because they're playing now. Does it matter who wins? They both have pretty tough challenges for the rest of the season. Portland is minus Aldridge and Randolph for the rest of the year, so they have no post offense. Seattle is missing Ray Allen for the rest of the year. And with other teams in the vicinity of the Knicks in the standings, KG is out for the rest of the year, Brad Miller is out with plantar fascitis, and Gerald Wallace is having knee pain, so he sat out today. Of all of these teams, only Charlotte looks hungry and committed to winning.


----------



## theanimal23

DMD,

I don't see Sacto or Minny winning. But out of those two, Portland, and Seattle, I think Seattle has the best chance of passing NYK if they win tonight. I hope Shard goes for 45 against Dallas' scrubs on Wed before he heads into FA. 

That said, Portland would be the 5th "seed", with a three way tie at 6,7, and 8. At worse we end up at 8. I can deal with that. I just care about being 9 or better, which I think will happen, but more important the chances of getting a top two pick. While I would absolutely love to get Oden, I would not be depresesed one bit if we got Durant. More so, if we were the 3rd worst team and got the 2nd pick. But not so much being in the position we are in now.

I don't think Minny can beat Memphis. Memphis can play hard for pride without anything to lose. 

Portland plays a Utah team, that IF they cannot clinich home court for the first round, might not care too much about the game. Chances of that happening are slim. They play GS next, who they should lose to. That game is their season (GS).

Sacto can play the role of spoiler. But with all their 'injuries' I don't see them winning another game. I'm hoping they can take NOK, or surpise one team. But hope is the key word.

We cannot afford to have the Knicks win one game. 

Anyone know the % of us winning if we are in a 3 way tie at the 6th slot?


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

theanimal23 said:


> DMD,
> 
> I don't see Sacto or Minny winning. But out of those two, Portland, and Seattle, I think Seattle has the best chance of passing NYK if they win tonight. I hope Shard goes for 45 against Dallas' scrubs on Wed before he heads into FA.
> 
> That said, Portland would be the 5th "seed", with a three way tie at 6,7, and 8. At worse we end up at 8. I can deal with that. I just care about being 9 or better, which I think will happen, but more important the chances of getting a top two pick. While I would absolutely love to get Oden, I would not be depresesed one bit if we got Durant. More so, if we were the 3rd worst team and got the 2nd pick. But not so much being in the position we are in now.
> 
> I don't think Minny can beat Memphis. Memphis can play hard for pride without anything to lose.
> 
> Portland plays a Utah team, that IF they cannot clinich home court for the first round, might not care too much about the game. Chances of that happening are slim. They play GS next, who they should lose to. That game is their season (GS).
> 
> Sacto can play the role of spoiler. But with all their 'injuries' I don't see them winning another game. I'm hoping they can take NOK, or surpise one team. But hope is the key word.
> 
> We cannot afford to have the Knicks win one game.
> 
> Anyone know the % of us winning if we are in a 3 way tie at the 6th slot?


Well, it's Portland that won, and I agree that they'll have a tough time winning again without Zach and LaMarcus.


----------



## rosenthall

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Well, it's Portland that won, and I agree that they'll have a tough time winning again without Zach and LaMarcus.


It looks like every single team with 32 or 31 wins is in tank mode right now. The last 2 days of the season could have a profound impact on our future, since it will likely play a large role in determing our draft position.

I also would not be surprised if all the teams 'competing' with NY right now lose the rest of their games, and we have a 3-5 way tie for the 5-9 spots.

In good news though, Charlotte pulled one win ahead of NY in the standings, probably putting at least one more team firmly ahead of NY in the lottery standings.


----------



## theanimal23

I think there will be a huge tie between a handful of teams. I'm worried about NYK. They will be the only ones not tanking, and may play for pride. Hopefully Crawford doesn't come back and ignite a spark for a win. Yes, even one win will hurt us.

We have to Beat Washington tomorrow for our sake, and give the Nets more motivation to beat NYK. 

Portland is done for the year at 32. 
Seattle won't get past 32.
Minny is done at 32.
Sacto, lets say at worst stays at 32.
If NYK loses out, we are at 32.

Thats a potential five way tie. We could end up with the 9th pick at worse. In terms of that aspect, then we can be happy. Odds are we shouldn't be, but 9th isn't bad.

But if we are tied among a few teams, say goodbye to Oden and Durant. Hell, even at a shot for B. Wright or Horford.


----------



## rosenthall

theanimal23 said:


> I think there will be a huge tie between a handful of teams. I'm worried about NYK. They will be the only ones not tanking, and may play for pride. Hopefully Crawford doesn't come back and ignite a spark for a win. Yes, even one win will hurt us.
> 
> We have to Beat Washington tomorrow for our sake, and give the Nets more motivation to beat NYK.
> 
> Portland is done for the year at 32.
> Seattle won't get past 32.
> Minny is done at 32.
> Sacto, lets say at worst stays at 32.
> If NYK loses out, we are at 32.
> 
> Thats a potential five way tie. We could end up with the 9th pick at worse. In terms of that aspect, then we can be happy. Odds are we shouldn't be, but 9th isn't bad.
> 
> But if we are tied among a few teams, say goodbye to Oden and Durant. Hell, even at a shot for B. Wright or Horford.


Yeah, I don't think it's unrealistic for all of the teams you mentioned to lose the rest of their games. It's like a combined 15 game losing streak if you put it all together, worse if you count them in with the current streaks that they're on. 

Ultimately, I think luck will have a lot to do with how these respective teams fare. For all of them, I think their best shots at getting wins is by playing a contender who has nothing to play for the last game of the season, so they just play their starters for 15-20 minutes, and the rest is garbage time.

For that reason, I'm kind of glad we're playing Charlotte next year, who still have incentive not to tank and are playing about as well as any team not in the lottery right now. 

Here's hoping Toronto pounds NY right now (good chance) and we give an old fashioned shellacking to Washington, and keep NJ's hope alive so they can come out gunning against the Knicks.


----------



## such sweet thunder

And Brandon Roy.

Out with an unspecified knee injury.

I don't think teams really understand how harmful it is to toss games down the stretch. The Bulls ended up needing to clean house to get rid of the culture of losing, and ultimately turn things around. It teaches lessons, that may not be able to be unlearned.


----------



## The ROY

such sweet thunder said:


> And Brandon Roy.
> 
> Out with an unspecified knee injury.
> 
> I don't think teams really understand how harmful it is to toss games down the stretch. The Bulls ended up needing to clean house to get rid of the culture of losing, and ultimately turn things around. It teaches lessons, that may not be able to be unlearned.


I disagree...

For a chance at a franchise player like Oden or Durant, there's good reason TO throw games.

Um imagine a team like Portland landing Oden or Durant? I'm sure they are


----------



## lougehrig

The ROY said:


> I disagree...
> 
> For a chance at a franchise player like Oden or Durant, there's good reason TO throw games.
> 
> Um imagine a team like Portland landing Oden or Durant? I'm sure they are


So you figure they would have "thrown" tonight's game against Seattle who they had a same record as. But they didn't and they won.


----------



## lougehrig

RoRo said:


> speaking of hawes, here's a local seattle story about him.
> from the handful of games i've seen, his passing ability stands out the most.
> 
> 'Sonic's Hawes' has nice ring...


Seattle has Petro (who is turning out well), Swift, Sene, Collison, Wilcox. Don't think they need another center. They really need a SF once Rashard leaves and/or a better PG. Some really intriguing SF prospects I don't see them passing up.


----------



## darlets

Alot of those teams may win a game just because a play off bound teams mails it in.

The Knicks don't play a team that's going to do that. 
The Raptors might, but I doubt it
Nets are being pushed by the Magic
Bobcats (are one win up on N.Y) I think are buidling for next year so want to win as much as possible.

I think the wolves will beat the grizzles in the last game but anything can happen.

I just read in the other thread, that if they finish on a tie they just split the total number of balls. That's not too bad, I thought they flipped a coin which could make a big difference to the lottery odds. 

So could be a 2-4 way tie for 6. 

The Knicks can only finish as high as 12th now if they win all the remaining games.


----------



## RoRo

lougehrig said:


> Seattle has Petro (who is turning out well), Swift, Sene, Collison, Wilcox. Don't think they need another center. They really need a SF once Rashard leaves and/or a better PG. Some really intriguing SF prospects I don't see them passing up.


I don't expect them too either. But hey if this guy thinks Hawes is the better player out of Petro(good athlete, but doesn't excel at any particular thing)/Swift(might be downgraded since he's coming off a knee surgery)/Sene(who's the rawest of the bunch) then that's got to stand for something.

agree pg and sf are more pressing concerns for them.


----------



## giusd

I agree that Sea and Minn are done and will not win other game but Portland has a lot of talent and could easily win another game and Sac stil has three games left and they are a vet team and could win another game so i still think we could be in a tie for the 6th pick with the knicks and Minny. 

But first the knicks need to help us out. They have 3 games in four nights and they have gotten blow out the last two games and overall they look pretty tried. Toronto is fighting for the second seed and have played really great at home laterly (beating det and chi) and i think they will clock the knicks. And then the knicks play at home on monday night against NJ who has owned the knicks since Kidd was traded to the nets. They only get one day off and after traveling to NC they play CHA who are playing some of their best BB of the season (they have won 4 of their last 6). And not to mention the knicks are really short on players.

If the knicks finish at 32 wins we are looking at 6 or 7.

Now sea looks like they will finish at 31 wins but they have drafted 3 straight centers and that team needs a PG bad (Conley) and MIL needs a a SF (Brewer) so if sea and mil dont get the 1st or 2nd pick I think they will trade down or pick a big man in the draft. Thus, only Men, Bos, and Phx(alt) need a big man. And if we tie with Portland and Minny only Minny needs a big since Portland nees a SF and has a young group of bigs. So i think a solid Center falls to the bulls even if they are 8 or 9th thro i think 7th more likely.

And either Hawes and Hibbert should be there for the bulls.

david


----------



## Greg Ostertag!

Just throwing my hat in the ring... Not sure how much this guy has been discussed as a possibility for the Bulls, but does Yi Jianlian not seem like a match made in heaven for the Bulls? He's been likened to Pau Gasol, some of the videos we've seen of him throwing down some big dunks are rather impressive. His length would be a good complement to Ben Wallace, I would think.

I guess what it could come down to would be say, his upside/risk and potential long-term chemistry with Tyrus Thomas versus Spencer Hawes'. The Bulls aren't going to be in the lottery for some time, so would they roll the dice on an extreme talent again (provided he is available) or shore up a need wiht a player that perhaps has a lower ceiling?


----------



## The ROY

Greg Ostertag! said:


> Just throwing my hat in the ring... Not sure how much this guy has been discussed as a possibility for the Bulls, but does Yi Jianlian not seem like a match made in heaven for the Bulls? He's been likened to Pau Gasol, some of the videos we've seen of him throwing down some big dunks are rather impressive. His length would be a good complement to Ben Wallace, I would think.
> 
> I guess what it could come down to would be say, his upside/risk and potential long-term chemistry with Tyrus Thomas versus Spencer Hawes'. The Bulls aren't going to be in the lottery for some time, so would they roll the dice on an extreme talent again (provided he is available) or shore up a need wiht a player that perhaps has a lower ceiling?


The problem with Yi is, he's more SF than anything else. He's not a power-post type player like Hibbert or Hawes and that's what we truely lack. Atleast Gasol would get in the paint and get dirty but Yi is more perimeter oriented. We also need someone that will play next to Tyrus for the next 10 years, Yi will end up a SF or PF when it's all said and done.

To me, he looks alot more like an athletic Keith Van Horn rather than a Pau Gasol type.


----------



## The ROY

lougehrig said:


> So you figure they would have "thrown" tonight's game against Seattle who they had a same record as. But they didn't and they won.



Um, even if they were BOTH throwing the game, you DO realize that one of the teams HAS to win right? lol


----------



## theanimal23

People compare Durant to a KG/TMac/Dirk hybrid. Do you guys think he could end up playing PF? Could he play a little 2? Or is he strictly a 3?


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

The ROY said:


> The problem with Yi is, he's more SF than anything else. He's not a power-post type player like Hibbert or Hawes and that's what we truely lack. Atleast Gasol would get in the paint and get dirty but Yi is more perimeter oriented. We also need someone that will play next to Tyrus for the next 10 years, Yi will end up a SF or PF when it's all said and done.
> 
> To me, he looks alot more like an athletic Keith Van Horn rather than a Pau Gasol type.


And I'd add to this that though I haven't really seen Yi play more than once in international competition, his clips remind me so much of Bargnani.


----------



## The ROY

theanimal23 said:


> People compare Durant to a KG/TMac/Dirk hybrid. Do you guys think he could end up playing PF? Could he play a little 2? Or is he strictly a 3?


I think he's a 3, period. He might be the skinnest phenom i've ever seen.


----------



## Fizer Fanatic

I think Durant can play the 4. It would definitely create some mismatches, mostly to his favor. He did make the Big 12 all-defensive team and averages of 1.9 bpg and 11.1 rpg. He does have some wirey strength to go with his impressive length, speed/agility and shot blocking ability. Sort of like a young Darius Miles or even Tyrus Thomas (w/o all the shot blocking) at PF defensively.


----------



## JeremyB0001

theanimal23 said:


> People compare Durant to a KG/TMac/Dirk hybrid. Do you guys think he could end up playing PF? Could he play a little 2? Or is he strictly a 3?


I think that like a TMac he'll be able to play the 2 some.


----------



## theanimal23

Since Minny won't win another game, I'm ignoring them, but lets hope for...

Sacto to continue to beat the Clippers and win.
Minny losing to GSW. This would put GSW in the driver seat to make the playoffs. They play Dallas next. Lets hope Dallas competes for a half so GSW wins. GSW finishes the season vs Portland. Will that game mean anything? It might, or it might not. It could be a matter of playoff seeding or if GSW has actually clinched or not due to tiebreaker situations.

But if Seattle can somehow pull one out of their... and get a win vs LAL, GSW's game vs PTL could mean nothing.

So what I'm trying to say is that Portland wins one more to move ahead of NYK, Sea wins today to make things easier for GSW and win vs DAL on Wed pushing them into a one game lead over NYK, and Minny and NYK being tied for the 5th-6th spot.

Key thing: Knicks lose out, and hoping for a lot of luck.


----------



## The ROY

Sac is up 21 over the Clippers with 2 quarters to go..

Minne is losing to Golden State by 20..it's over

NY is at Toronto tonight and they still want the 2nd


----------



## theanimal23

I'm pretty sure the 2nd is between us and CLE only. We have the tiebreaker over TOR (Conference Record).

I hope TOR has motivation to play vs NYK. They should play hard to develop some momentum heading into round 1. Also, since the Knicks are lacking numbers, lets hope Bosh puts Curry into foul trouble ASAP.


----------



## tweedy

Sacramento's up big on the Clippers and should reach 33 wins. If the Sonics (31 wins) lose tonight against the Lakers, they clinch the 5th worst record. 

Minnesota (32) 
at Denver
vs Memphis

They'll probably lose out, at which point I'll vomit. Here's hoping that KG comes back for the home finale.

Portland (32)
at Utah
vs GS

Stil playing hard and can win at least one if Roy comes back.


----------



## theanimal23

We have to hope NYK loses out. 

Looks like we could get the 8th spot at worse. I just hate it in terms of lotto chances. 

Say we somehow end up with the 6th pick, do you guys think someone could drop to us? Every year it seems that one talented player falls. Do you think Brandan Wright could drop to 6? 

You know who would look good in Phx, Corey Brewer. The thing is, they do need a big man off the bench. 

The Seattle game tonight is huge.


----------



## The ROY

NO way Seattle wins over a Lakers team on the VERGE of missing the playoffs. They'll beat them, and quite easily.

I can't see Brandan falling to 6 under any circumstances, he's the 3rd best prospect in this draft, period.

I think the 7th/8th spot is a good place for us to be in.

1. Oden
2. Durant
3. B. Wright
4. Horford
5. Noah
6. Hibbert
7. Jianlian
8. Hawes
9. J. Wright
10. Conley Jr.
11. Brewer
12. Green
13. Law
14. Splitter

That IMO will be the lotto this year. Not in that order, but the top 14 taken first.


----------



## rosenthall

I feel pretty well about NY's game against Toronto tonight. The Raptors are playing as well as any team in the East right now, and are still trying to put on a blitz to get the 2nd seed, and are young and hungry, so I'm pretty sure they'll smoke the Knicks tonight.

Minnesota looks like it's completely packed it in. In hindsight, it's quite fortuitous that they pulled out that game against the Knicks. They've been hapless ever since. In all seriousness, after that game, I would not be surprised if Kevin McHale took a look at the standings and became afraid of pulling ahead of the pack and started sitting his marquee players.

Currently, the Sacramento and New Jersey games are pretty intriguing. Sac is up in the 4th quarter, but the Clippers are surging with about 5 minutes to go, and the Nets are in a dogfight with the Pacers. If Sac pulls out the win, it gets rid of the log jam partially, and makes the Knicks a surer bet to get a pick in the 5-7 spot, which is important since every other team around them looks like it's trying to lose their games.

And I think it's important that NJ come into tomorrow's game against NY hungry, which would probably be helped if they could close out the Pacers and have the Wizards in their cross hairs.


----------



## theanimal23

Sacto trying hard to blow a 20 point lead.


----------



## spongyfungy

The ROY said:


> NO way Seattle wins over a Lakers team on the VERGE of missing the playoffs. They'll beat them, and quite easily.
> .


I agree. especially since they are on a second game of a back to back. If the Lakers lose, this will be one of the biggest chokes this season.

Still the Knicks can tie them with 32-50 records (for fifth worst) if the Sonics win their final game against the Mavs. :uhoh: 

_____________________________________


If the Eastern Conference knows what's good for them, they need to lay down to the knickerbockers. If the knicks lose their next 3 games they can have the fifth worst record with 8.8% chance for the 1st pick and 9.6% for the second pick.


----------



## theanimal23

That is our best bet: Sea over Dal, if you can actually assume they have a chance of winning.

NYK hanging in there with Toronto in the 1st Qtr. 

Hopefully Portland can squeeze out just one more. If that were the case, we'd be sitting at 7th worst. I'll gladly take that. With a team like Seattle ahead of us, who knows, we could move up IF they decide to take a SF.


----------



## yodurk

Holy crap, the Knicks are up 12 in Toronto. They went on an 18-3 run in the 2nd quarter (scored on about 8 straight possessions). Better hope Toronto starts playing some defense.


----------



## spongyfungy

71-70 Raptors. Curry looks good today, staying out of foul trouble.

and he gets T'ed up.


----------



## kulaz3000

I really hope Boston gets the 3rd of 4th pick, they are a disgrace to the league. This is the most blatant form of tanking i've ever seen since well.. the Celtics when they were tanking for Duncan.

They were letting Green go the past few games with him playing great(offensively anyhow), yet they have even held Green back tonight, probably in fears that he might have another big game and accidentally win them a game.

They are such a disgrace to the league, its disgusting..


----------



## theanimal23

What I hope: Boston selects Noah. This means some team moves into the top two slot (hopefully us) or Noah is taken off the board by the time our selection rolls around. Boston may have tanked for the worst lotto selection in this draft.


----------



## RoRo

toronto up by 6 with 4 min to go.

curry looks winded, hopefully ny doesn't have the depth to pull out a win.


----------



## spongyfungy

Calderon is just torching the knicks

95-89 with 4 minutes left and the raps have all the momentum


----------



## such sweet thunder

Looks like the raps have this one in hand; another bullet doged. Wouldn't it be great if Seattle put up a fight tonight? One can always dream.


----------



## RoRo

yikes mardy collins with a hustling steal. why don't u just give up already. 
2 pt game with a minute left.


----------



## such sweet thunder

As soon as I write that, NY makes a push. Toronto by three with a minute and a half left.


----------



## spongyfungy

uh not really. Mardy is playing well.


----------



## RoRo

bosh with a big pull up jumper. clutch!


----------



## theanimal23

You heard it here, Knicks will pull something out of their behinds to win this or take it to OT. It always happens.


----------



## RoRo

damn, looks like curry's shirt is a different shade of blue, but it's all sweat


----------



## RoRo

rofl. "francis for three, that's a aweful shot, awful shot."


----------



## spongyfungy

theanimal23 said:


> You heard it here, Knicks will pull something out of their behinds to win this or take it to OT. It always happens.


What about another Curry three? Go Isiah!


----------



## RoRo

francis drives and draws a foul. two ft's coming up.


----------



## theanimal23

spongyfungy said:


> What about another Curry three? Go Isiah!


That could very well be the reason why we won't get a top 6 pick and Oden/Durant.


----------



## theanimal23

Hanging with Toronto will give NY confidence tomorrow at their last home game. We need NJ to come and blow them out of the water.


----------



## theanimal23

I can't wait till the season is over. I don't have to care about the Knicks again. 

Seriously this team causes a headache. So unpredictable.


----------



## spongyfungy

yikes. so dumb...


----------



## such sweet thunder

Toronto wins by 2!


----------



## JeremyB0001

theanimal23 said:


> I can't wait till the season is over. I don't have to care about the Knicks again.
> 
> Seriously this team causes a headache. So unpredictable.


It's certainly frustrating and nerveracking at times but overall, I've have a fantastic time rooting against the Knicks these past two seasons. There will certainly be a void in my life next season when our fortunes are no longer tied to their (lack of) success.


----------



## yodurk

Man, close one there. Can't believe Toronto let it get that close with how well they've been playing. Raps hit some major clutch free throws to win it.

More good news, Philly grabbed win #34 against Detroit today further distancing themselves from the Knicks. 

I just have a hunch though, that the Knicks will beat New Jersey tomorrow. They've gotta be sick of losing by now and I wonder how much NJ cares about moving from the 7th seed to the 6th seed (which could happen if Washington loses their final 2 games).


----------



## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls!

So, now we're tired for 6th, with 2 other teams, a half game out of 5th. So, realistically, we'll fall between 5-7, but if we remain tied for 6th, we'll still an equal # of ping pong balls as other other team(s) finishing at 6th. Which is ok, I suppose. 

Not bad, not bad at all, considering everything. Translation: worst case scenario: draft 9 or 10, if all three balls are drawn by teams below us. 
Which means a decent player in a deep draft. Someone who can help, a Spencer Hawyes type, as we become perennial eastern conference contenters for many years to come. 

Best case scenario: Eastern Conference dominance for the next generation! (Tyrus and Greg/Kevin for Eddy?? Steal of the new century).


----------



## theanimal23

yodurk said:


> I just have a hunch though, that the Knicks will beat New Jersey tomorrow. They've gotta be sick of losing by now and I wonder how much NJ cares about moving from the 7th seed to the 6th seed (which could happen if Washington loses their final 2 games).


I think NYK can win tomorrow. But a few key things have to go for NJ: 1. Get to a big lead right away. It's NYK's last home game. Take the crowd out of it. and 2, get Curry into foul trouble.

I expect the worse (for us) from the Knicks b/c they have had so many last-second miracles, that I can't have faith in them losing. 

You just don't know.

If Seattle can win tonight, we may have a longshot at the 5th/6th spot (tied with Minny) as GSW's finale may mean nothing vs PTL, and Sea could win vs Dal on Wed. If that happens, I believe we have a shot at Mr. Greggory Oden.


----------



## johnston797

It's not likely, but if NKY go on a 2 game win streak, we would be drafting at 10 or so, no?


----------



## theanimal23

johnston797 said:


> It's not likely, but if NKY go on a 2 game win streak, we would be drafting at 10 or so, no?


Sounds about right. And it is very possible. Last time we hoped for the Nets to win, they laid a huge egg.


----------



## such sweet thunder

johnston797 said:


> It's not likely, but if NKY go on a 2 game win streak, we would be drafting at 10 or so, no?


I just don't see any way NY beats the Bobcats on the road. They're playing really well now. Walter Herman is the latest in the long line of Argentinians teams should have jumped on five years ago.

Bulls_Bulls_Bulls!, I've already started to imagine the Oden possibilities though, best case scenario, we only have a roughly 5% shot. Adding Oden to our team as constituted would be something for the ages. Another Bulls dynasty?


----------



## mgolding

Spencer Hawyes seems to be a nice fit from what his strengths seem to be. craft post moves, strong post passer, good jump shooter. Considering we have big ben and tyrus as our defensive and rebounding specialists he seems like he'd be a good fit. My only concern is how far is he from ready?

You've got to think a young offensively minded big would be ecstatic to come and play alongside the protection of Wallace, the slashing of deng and the shooting of gordon and hinrich.


----------



## The ROY

mgolding said:


> Spencer Hawyes seems to be a nice fit from what his strengths seem to be. craft post moves, strong post passer, good jump shooter. Considering we have big ben and tyrus as our defensive and rebounding specialists he seems like he'd be a good fit. My only concern is how far is he from ready?
> 
> You've got to think a young offensively minded big would be ecstatic to come and play alongside the protection of Wallace, the slashing of deng and the shooting of gordon and hinrich.


\
great thing about hawes is, we can run our offense THROUGH him. i'm sure he alone could make us a 60 win team for the next 10 years


----------



## theanimal23

If you go to youtube, there is a Washington Huskies Vid that shows highlights of the entire year. Someone over at RealGM mentioned this video, and around the 4:50 mark, you can see highlights of Hawes. I was impressed. 

I know ROY isn't a big fan of Yi, but he seems nice. But, I wonder how athletic he is compared to the guys at the NBA level. I hope he has the 'it' factor which Yao lacks, otherwise he'd be the MVP each year. 

Sonics down by 11 at half. Kobe stopped shooting in the 2nd qtr, so the Sonics caught up. Hoping for a miracle. Aren't we all?


----------



## Ron Cey

Good day for the pick. Knicks lose. Philly wins. Sacto wins. Sonics down by 5. Good stuff.

I don't care about the lottery balls so much as I care about where we will pick when we don't get lucky. Because I love me some Spencer Hawes. 

The key is to get in good enough non-miracle-oden-durant position to get a quality big (or to maximize the trade value). And its looking good.


----------



## THEbigO

lakers went on a huge run. sonics down by 12 with just under 3 minutes left.

bummer.


----------



## lougehrig

We're up to a 4.67% chance at Oden and another 5% chance at Durant. This is now a legitimate shot at those two players. Alot of lottery winners have been 5-10%.


----------



## theanimal23

Yeah it sucks. Sonics had it down to 3 I think. Well, I think Dallas might try vs GSW as it will be their likely first round matchup. The way the Sonics played today, hopefully they can beat Dallas on Wed, and it could result in a tie with NYK.

Only team that is tied with NYK that could pull off a miracle win for us is Portland. That depends if Roy plays again this season.

Otherwise, at best we have a 4 way tie at that spot. Today there is a 3 way tie, meaning we could be 8ish, or worse if another team moves into the lottery. It's likely we get a top 10 pick. Being at 8 would make me feel comfortable that we can land Hawes. 

I don't think we'll land a top two pick, or a top 3 pick. Being at draft slot 6 you have a small chance, let alone splitting the lotto balls between two other teams.

ESPN lotto simulator has the following happening:
Oden
Durant
Noah (Boston, would they really pick him?)
Wright - Suns
Yi - Sonics
Horford - Us (if we get the 6th)

Yi could save the Sonics from moving, as he would draw a larger crowd.

Noah is the X-factor. We could have a quality player drop to us if someone actually picks him in the top five.


----------



## rosenthall

As it stands right now, barring a jump into the top 3, the best pick we could possibly get would be #5, and the worst would be #11.

Getting the 5 pick would mean that Seattle wins against Dallas and NY loses out, and then NY wins the coin toss. 

Getting the #11 would mean that NY wins out, everyone else loses, NY goes into a tie with Philadelphia for the 10-11 spots, and loses the coin toss.

Neither of those is very likely, so it appears our pick will be somewhere in the 6-9 range, which is fine by me.

We should have a pick of at least 2 legitimate big man prospects at any of those spots, and would be in a reasonable position to trade those picks along with other players for a more marquee veteran if that's the route we'd choose to take.


----------



## theanimal23

I can't think of a single veteran that would be *available *that would solve our post-scoring issues. Plus, it's not like we'll have PJ's salary to use. Pax missed his chance to trade for any Vet. Either we use next year's first to move up, or we stay put. I'm all for using next year's first to move up. The guy we get next year won't be getting heavy minutes anyway.


----------



## giusd

Right now the bulls are either the 6th, 7th, or 8th pick. NJ has a lot of reason to play hard against the Knicks monday night because they could catch was and play Toronto instead of the bulls and if they lose they could slide into the 8th spot and play DET. And they dont want to do that. If the knicks lose on monday they play CHA on a 3rd game in four nights against a CHA team that has not played since Sat and is both rested and playing their best bball of the season. I really like the knicks chances of finishing 32 and 50. That should be good for a top 7 pick and with all the big men in this draft we should get either Hibbert or Hawes and either would be a solid big man to pair with TT in the future.

david


----------



## DaBabyBullz

I'm hoping we'll get the 5th, and have a good shot at winning the lotto, or at least getting top 3. I'd be really happy with Oden, Durant or Brandan Wright of course, but also if we got stuck at #5, we'd maybe be able to take Brandan still, and Hawes would definitely be there. Those are the 4 guys I have separated from the rest of the draft class. I just hope we don't get Yi or Noah...those are the 2 guys in the draft I really don't like at all, and will be pissed if we draft either of them, and furious if we actually trade up to grab one of them.

Aside from Oden for pure post players, Hawes is probably the best fit for our team.


----------



## theanimal23

Hawes sounds like the best fit. But I'm hoping we get the 6th pick. It sounds like Seattle has the 5th locked up. 

Horford and Wright would be the only guys I'd take ahead of Hawes. But, the potential and athletism of a Tyrus and Wright fountcourt would be devastating. I know both are extremely skinny, but I gotta think they can each add 15-20 pounds over a 3 year span. Both being around 240 is enough. Can you imagine how long we would be at each position? Deng, Tyrus, Wright? We could run the break on any team. Wright has a nice hook shot which is going to be unblockable.

The X-factors would be Phx and whoever ends up with that 3rd pick. If Noah is taken as the number 3 or 4 player, we could switch picks with Seattle (6 to 5) and grab our guy.


----------



## darlets

Ron Cey said:


> Good day for the pick. Knicks lose. Philly wins. Sacto wins. Sonics down by 5. Good stuff.
> 
> I don't care about the lottery balls so much as I care about where we will pick when we don't get lucky. Because I love me some Spencer Hawes.
> 
> The key is to get in good enough non-miracle-oden-durant position to get a quality big (or to maximize the trade value). And its looking good.


Yeah, it would be nice to get a pick in the 6th-8th range. 9th-11th range would suck.

But fingers crossed for number one.
Having a 1 in 20 chance of landing Oden would be nice.
Any of the top three picks would improve us greatly, even if we just traded the third pick.


----------



## theanimal23

Unless I'm wrong, how can we get a Vet by a trade?
Guys who will come back next year and likely won't be traded: Deng, Gordon, Hinrich, Wallace, Tyrus, and maybe Thabo (trade bait?)

Guys who won't land you a vet who are under contract: Griffin

Possible trade bait under contract: Duhon, Viktor neither are appealing if a team is giving up a POST scorer

FAs: PJ, Malik, Noce, Sweets -- None can be traded draft time

So unless there is a post-scorer who is on a rookie contract, and Pax is willing to ship off Gordon or Deng along with the pick, we are not getting anyone.

Our best move will be to offer next year's first along with year's pick to land the 4th or 5th pick. That is, if one of those teams is going to want to take a SF. Otherwise, we are going to have to wait at our spot and choose between Hawes, Hibbert, and possibly Noah (who I think will drop big time).

Next year's pick won't be getting much PT. It'll be a late 1st rounder.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

darlets said:


> Yeah, it would be nice to get a pick in the 6th-8th range. 9th-11th range would suck.
> 
> But fingers crossed for number one.
> Having a 1 in 20 chance of landing Oden would be nice.
> Any of the top three picks would improve us greatly, even if we just traded the third pick.


If we get a top 3 picks, and don't take one of Oden, Durant or Brandan Wright, I'll start up my own Fire Paxson club, unless we really rip off some other team BIG TIME in the trade! That's just not acceptable to let one of those guys go when they're ours for the taking.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

theanimal23 said:


> Unless I'm wrong, how can we get a Vet by a trade?
> Guys who will come back next year and likely won't be traded: Deng, Gordon, Hinrich, Wallace, Tyrus, and maybe Thabo (trade bait?)
> 
> Guys who won't land you a vet who are under contract: Griffin
> 
> Possible trade bait under contract: Duhon, Viktor neither are appealing if a team is giving up a POST scorer
> 
> FAs: PJ, Malik, Noce, Sweets -- None can be traded draft time
> 
> So unless there is a post-scorer who is on a rookie contract, and Pax is willing to ship off Gordon or Deng along with the pick, we are not getting anyone.
> 
> Our best move will be to offer next year's first along with year's pick to land the 4th or 5th pick. That is, if one of those teams is going to want to take a SF. Otherwise, we are going to have to wait at our spot and choose between Hawes, Hibbert, and possibly Noah (who I think will drop big time).
> 
> Next year's pick won't be getting much PT. It'll be a late 1st rounder.


Would we be able to trade our '08 1st, considering we swapped it this year? I'd be all for trading our next 1st that is tradeable along with our #6-9 or w/e this year if it'll net us Brandan Wright or Hawes. I don't think we'd be able to trade up for Oden/Durant, or I'd include them too of course.


----------



## theanimal23

DaBabyBullz said:


> If we get a top 3 picks, and don't take one of Oden, Durant or Brandan Wright, I'll start up my own Fire Paxson club, unless we really rip off some other team BIG TIME in the trade! That's just not acceptable to let one of those guys go when they're ours for the taking.


Again, not that it'd be possible unless it'd be done after the draft (sign Noce, PJ to big contracts), but the only trade I'd accept that sent away a top 3 pick would KG. And I wouldn't even do that.

We'd be absolutely stacked and prime to be contenders for the next decade if we kept all the young guys.

Again this is why I say and think Pax will definitely trade next year's pick to move up.

The future:
5: NYK pick + Next years = Phx's Pick? = Wright/Horford
4: Ty
3: Deng
2: Ben
1: Kirk

NYK gets extended when Wallace comes off the book. Bench = Thabo and guys we use the MLE on etc. Noce might or might not be around then. But we'll add 3 other late first rounders over the span of 4 years.

Thats a solid team.


----------



## theanimal23

DaBabyBullz said:


> Would we be able to trade our '08 1st, considering we swapped it this year? I'd be all for trading our next 1st that is tradeable along with our #6-9 or w/e this year if it'll net us Brandan Wright or Hawes. I don't think we'd be able to trade up for Oden/Durant, or I'd include them too of course.


While we may have swapped it, I think the rule is, you must have a pick in your "possesion" in a two year span. So if we trade next year's pick, we better have a 2007 pick.

Once the lottery occurs, the NYK will be known as Chicago's, and Chicago's will be known as NYK's. 

We can use that and next years to land a pick in the 2007 draft. So I figure we'll still have one in our "posession" within a two year window. 

Seems logical. 

Does anyone else get the feeling this will be Pax's move? Hell, I'll trade the pick with only a top 5 protection on it. Things would have to go real bad for us to give up a pick of such high value.


----------



## spongyfungy

kulaz3000 said:


> I really hope Boston gets the 3rd of 4th pick, they are a disgrace to the league. This is the most blatant form of tanking i've ever seen since well.. the Celtics when they were tanking for Duncan.
> 
> They were letting Green go the past few games with him playing great(offensively anyhow), yet they have even held Green back tonight, probably in fears that he might have another big game and accidentally win them a game.
> 
> They are such a disgrace to the league, its disgusting..





> Ryan Gomes had 13 through three quarters, but watched from the bench in the fourth as Boston clinched the worst record in the Eastern Conference and second worst in the league.
> "I probably (would have played), but since we were in the hunt for a high draft pick, of course things are different," Gomes said. "I understand that. Hopefully things get better. Now that we clinched at least having the second-most balls in the lottery, the last three games we'll see what happens. We'll see if we can go out and finish some games."


:frenchy:


----------



## such sweet thunder

spongyfungy said:


> :frenchy:


I seriously hope Stern opens a can of whoop *** and goes Joe Smith on the Celtics. That **** is rediculous. It is a mockery of everything that is beautiful about competitive sport. And if Stern doesn't embarass the Celts then you know they've just hit too close to home.


----------



## theanimal23

such sweet thunder said:


> *I seriously hope Stern opens a can of whoop *** and goes Joe Smith on the Celtics.* That **** is rediculous. It is a mockery of everything that is beautiful about competitive sport. And if Stern doesn't embarass the Celts then you know they've just hit too close to home.


Preach on brother.

We know it happens, but the league couldn't do anything because it didn't have "proof." Well there you have it Stern. Mr. Right. Mr. Perfect. You want to send a message, here is your chance. But then again, maybe you'll play favorites to your buddy Ainge here and land them the #1 overall while helping Mr. Wade repeat.

Seriously, I hate this. In the NFL, where there is no lottery, it isn't even this bad. It's obvious teams tank. Why do you think KG misses the last ten games of each season. Then you go and read Doc's quotes in the recap of the game and he basically went blah blah blah we competed and wanted the Magic to earn their playoff birth. Rightttt


----------



## JeremyB0001

Ideally, we'd have a somewhat traditional 7 foot center but I'm more than willing to sacrifice that if it means getting Wright, Horford, or maybe even Yi on board.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

theanimal23 said:


> Again, not that it'd be possible unless it'd be done after the draft (sign Noce, PJ to big contracts), but the only trade I'd accept that sent away a top 3 pick would KG. And I wouldn't even do that.
> 
> We'd be absolutely stacked and prime to be contenders for the next decade if we kept all the young guys.
> 
> Again this is why I say and think Pax will definitely trade next year's pick to move up.
> 
> The future:
> 5: NYK pick + Next years = Phx's Pick? = Wright/Horford
> 4: Ty
> 3: Deng
> 2: Ben
> 1: Kirk
> 
> NYK gets extended when Wallace comes off the book. Bench = Thabo and guys we use the MLE on etc. Noce might or might not be around then. But we'll add 3 other late first rounders over the span of 4 years.
> 
> Thats a solid team.


That's exactly what I had in mind when I said they'd better not trade it. No stupid KG bullcrap either. He can stay in MN and rot for all I care, cause I wouldn't give up much at all for him. I'd rather the Bulls be competitive for a long time, then sell-out for a year or 2 with an over-the-hill KG. It's not like he's good enough to take a team to a championship anyway, and our team would resemble the Wolves if we gutted it for him. 

I think we're set at the 1-4 for the next 8 years anyway, (assuming Kirk can play till he's 34 or so) and the 5 is the only glaring weakness on the team (both then and now IMO). If Oden, Hawes, Brandan Wright could be added to Kirk, Ben, Luol, Tyrus we'd be wicked. I'd seriously say that in 2 years we'd be champs, and at the start of a dynasty. I rank Kirk at the top of PGs in the NBA, Ben is one of the top shooters/clutch scorers, Luol is turning into one of the best SFs, and I think Tyrus could be THE best PF in the league (but we don't know yet of course). Now throw in Oden and it's a good bet he'll be a top center. Hawes should be a really good post scorer at the least. Wright should be a little bigger, more offensive version of Tyrus. If we got Brandan, we still wouldn't really have a center, but we don't now either and it's not hurting us. Brandan plays a LOT bigger than Wallace does, so it'd still be an upgrade, plus he has so much more athleticism and offensive capability. If we got Brandan (more likely than Oden, but less than Hawes) we could probably pattern our team after the Suns, BUT, we'd have defense and a more set offense. That sounds like a winning combination to me!


----------



## darlets

DaBabyBullz said:


> If we get a top 3 picks, and don't take one of Oden, Durant or Brandan Wright, I'll start up my own Fire Paxson club, unless we really rip off some other team BIG TIME in the trade! That's just not acceptable to let one of those guys go when they're ours for the taking.


Well, I started a "what do we do if we get the third pick thread?" and there was abit of interesting in shipping the third.

I don't know enough about Wright to really comment.


----------



## JeremyB0001

theanimal23 said:


> Again this is why I say and think Pax will definitely trade next year's pick to move up.


Even if he definitely makes the offer, someone has to accept it. If there are no takers we don't have any way to seriously sweeten the deal.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

JeremyB0001 said:


> Ideally, we'd have a somewhat traditional 7 foot center but I'm more than willing to sacrifice that if it means getting Wright, Horford, or maybe even Yi on board.


What does your draft board for the Bulls look like? I've always been in the BPA camp, unless it makes no sense at all.

For me, it'd be:
1. Oden/Durant...Durant is better, but Oden's close and a need...coin-flip
3. Brandan Wright...too good to pass up...length makes him play like he's 7'
4. Hawes...probably best fit, maybe even more-so than Oden
5. Horford...good player, but doesn't fit as well, a bit undersized

I really don't have a lot of interest in anyone else. I guess after those guys, I'd have to go to guys I haven't really seen before...pretty much any 7 footer, and the huge dude from Georgetown (saw him play, but can never remember his name...he looked good at times, and not so good at others)


----------



## theanimal23

DaBabyBullz, I agree with every point in your post. I don't want KG, unless he was willing to come here after opting out. I don't even consider making a trade for him. 

I like Al Horford a lot, but I'm leaning toward Wright at the moment. Why? Potential. Its the word we all love and hate. But the guy is freakish athletically. I agree with you. If we got him, we would be perfectly capable of running a Phoenix-like system with a frontline that can do it all. I honestly think Tyrus will become that force and low-post scorer we need. The kid is way too talented and has the motor. Speaking of motor, that is the only question mark they have about him. I think I read this on the ESPN lotto game. But the kid is definitely worth a gamble. I think Horford's ceiling is lower, but he isn't as freakishly long as Wright. While Wright would be skinny, teams would really have to adjust for their shots down low for the jumping ability and length of Tyrus and Wright.

Say Phoenix or Milawaukee land the 4th pick. Would anyone give up Thabo and pick to get Wright (to Phx)? If Mil gets it, I would give up next years first and possibly Duhon. I'd be more reluctant to move Thabo than Duhon. But that may be the asking price for Phoenix. Duhon to Mil would hurt shortterm, but Thabo could/should be the answer soon. 

The Phoenix deal could come down to one thing if it was just a switch of picks (they drop from 4 to 9), if we take Marcus Banks off their hands. I'm sure thats something they will want a team to do.


----------



## theanimal23

DaBabyBullz said:


> What does your draft board for the Bulls look like? I've always been in the BPA camp, unless it makes no sense at all.
> 
> For me, it'd be:
> 1. Oden/Durant...Durant is better, but Oden's close and a need...coin-flip
> 3. Brandan Wright...too good to pass up...length makes him play like he's 7'
> 4. Hawes...probably best fit, maybe even more-so than Oden
> 5. Horford...good player, but doesn't fit as well, a bit undersized
> 
> I really don't have a lot of interest in anyone else. I guess after those guys, I'd have to go to guys I haven't really seen before...pretty much any 7 footer, and the huge dude from Georgetown (saw him play, but can never remember his name...he looked good at times, and not so good at others)


My board looks the same. We should be in fine position to grab Hawes. The only worry I have is if Portland or Seattle want him. You wonder why? Well, Seattle has never fulfilled that need of a center. They have a bunch of projects, but no one has panned out. I can see them going for local guy who could be decent. Same for Portland. Magloire is gone. Pyrz can play backup. Randolph is always on the block. It is likely they both go SF, but I can see them choose Hawes. 

Minnesota is a team that wants to win now. I can't see them picking a freshman. They will likely go for an NBA ready player. Green and Brewer are possibilities.

The X-factors will come down if Phoenix picks Noah. I don't see the Bucks taking Wright. Not even Horford, unless they decide to go BPA. They don't have any glaring needs, but they can add pieces at PF or SF. 

My gut feeling, as unlikely as it sounds, I think if we get the 6th pick, Horford or Wright drops down to us IF someone picks Noah in the top 4.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

darlets said:


> Well, I started a "what do we do if we get the third pick thread?" and there was abit of interesting in shipping the third.
> 
> I don't know enough about Wright to really comment.


Well, I'm a UNC fan, so watched them whenever possible this year. The best way I can describe Brandan is a more offensively adept version of Tyrus Thomas lol. Same build, same length, comparable athleticism. Brandan has a nice hookshot I've seen him use several times, and could develop into a really special player. I saw him go up to block a shot early in the season, and he basically went up, and when the guy shot it, it was about at Brandan's waist-lvl lol. He was up that high...well anyway, he just grabbed the ball and came down with it. The "block" turned into a "steal" basically lol. I figure if Tyrus can guard and block guys like Duncan, Nowitzke and Shaq, Brandan should be able to as well. I think they're both about 6'10" with 7'5" wingspans roughly, but of course both are very skinny. He's a freshman too.


----------



## theanimal23

Good pts DBB. The thing is, I see Wright as a PERFECT fit in Phx.

Edit: 

On a side note, a few years ago, Portland fell in love with Webster. Utah with Deron Williams. It cost Utah 3 first round picks to move up to get Deron. I don't remember if they had all 3 in the same draft (I think they did). They went up to 3 from 6. 

Gives us an idea of what the price may be. That draft had Bogut as number one. This draft has Oden as number one.


----------



## theanimal23

darlets said:


> Well, I started a "what do we do if we get the third pick thread?" and there was abit of interesting in shipping the third.
> 
> I don't know enough about Wright to really comment.


Gives you an idea
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMB8KvQReUU


----------



## DaBabyBullz

theanimal23 said:


> Speaking of motor, that is the only question mark they have about him. I think I read this on the ESPN lotto game. But the kid is definitely worth a gamble. I think Horford's ceiling is lower, but he isn't as freakishly long as Wright. While Wright would be skinny, teams would really have to adjust for their shots down low for the jumping ability and length of Tyrus and Wright.
> 
> Say Phoenix or Milawaukee land the 4th pick. Would anyone give up Thabo and pick to get Wright (to Phx)? If Mil gets it, I would give up next years first and possibly Duhon. I'd be more reluctant to move Thabo than Duhon. But that may be the asking price for Phoenix. Duhon to Mil would hurt shortterm, but Thabo could/should be the answer soon.
> 
> The Phoenix deal could come down to one thing if it was just a switch of picks (they drop from 4 to 9), if we take Marcus Banks off their hands. I'm sure thats something they will want a team to do.


The motor is a question with Wright? He did seem to get tired, but you also have to consider that UNC really ran a lot, and rotated guys in a lot, at all positions. That's what made them so good this year, was their depth. I watched numerous games where they looked like crap, and were either losing or barely winning, and the last 10 minutes or so of every game they'd blow them out, big time. (well, all but 1 game that I saw anyway, except when they lost to Georgetown in the tourney...Duke being the other). Anyway, back on topic...I think it was the tempo of the game. He doesn't seem to have the motor that Tyrus does, but then again, Tyrus was said not to have that motor initially either.

I'd definitely give up Thabo and our pick to move up and grab Wright, but only him (unless Oden or Durant were up for grabs lol). Thabo sat on the bench all the time anyway. I'd rather get rid of Du-Chump though....I'd give him away. I'd also trade a future first to move up if that's what it took. I don't see much value in our future firsts anytime in the near future. We should be picking in the 20s for the next 5-10 years I'd think. That's not much different than a crummy 2nd rounder. 

I guess I'm not too sure what you mean by Marcus Banks. He's a bad contract and the Suns would wanna unload it on us in a trade, or what? We don't have much to trade back to them to make it balance out though if that's the case.....


----------



## DaBabyBullz

theanimal23 said:


> Good pts DBB. The thing is, I see Wright as a PERFECT fit in Phx.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> On a side note, a few years ago, Portland fell in love with Webster. Utah with Deron Williams. It cost Utah 3 first round picks to move up to get Deron. I don't remember if they had all 3 in the same draft (I think they did). They went up to 3 from 6.
> 
> Gives us an idea of what the price may be. That draft had Bogut as number one. This draft has Oden as number one.


Well, I guess the key thing we need to know here is approximately what picks Utah was trading. If it was a late pick, in the late teens or twenties, then it would take a lot of picks to make up the difference. If we're picking at #6 to #9, and moving to #4, it shouldn't take nearly as much. Heck, the Suns SOLD us the #7 once lol. Maybe we can be good trade partners again  (they get the Hawks' pick, top 3 protected right?)


----------



## theanimal23

I don't think I'd offer our first next year if Thabo was wanted by Phoenix. He would be amazing in their system. I think Thabo will be pretty darn good here if he works at it, and gains confidence (I feel he lacks it, unlike Tyrus).

If we lose Thabo, we gotta keep Du. I'm sure Pax will evaluate every single option, but I don't know how willing Phoenix moves down if they get a guy like Thabo. Only for the sake of who would they select with our pick. They'd have Thabo, and need a big man. Out of those who would be available, none would fit their style.

Yeah we don't have the contracts for Banks, but I feel like they will include that in the price of getting the 3rd pick. At least try to.

I wouldn't give up a pick too far into the future, just incase things happen. Next year or 2009 is fine with me. I'd offer next years with top 3 protected.

NYK, next year's, and Thabo would likely get it done with Phoenix. I got to think. Granted, Thabo didn't play much so he doesn't affect us if you think about it that way. But man, the kid has the tools to be special. If we lost Thabo, I'd hope we can spend some of the MLE for a viable replacement.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

Yeah, as I said before, Thabo just sits on the bench anyway, so I'd move him if it meant getting a stud like Brandan instead of junk to fill our need. I'd rather move Du-Chump or a future pick though. I think if our pick was #6 and we were moving to #4, Thabo should be enough to get the job done, or a future pick. Shouldn't cost a whole lot to move up 2 slots. We moved down 2 slots last year for Vyktor Freaking Khryapa! LMAO

Am I remembering wrong, or isn't the pick Phoenix could have at the top of this draft from the Hawks, and top 4 protected? In a way, I kinda hope the Hawks land the #1 and get Oden. The Hawks have always been a favorite of mine (because of Dominique and Spuds way back when I was a little kid) and a group of Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams and Greg Oden is just wicked, especially if they found a PG lol. Too bad they WASTED the #5 on Shelden Williams last year, instead of taking Gay, Roy or Foye.


----------



## theanimal23

It is top 3 protected. I feel bad for the Hawks due to their ownership and (lack of) fans. If we don't get Oden, I hope they do instead of a team like Boston. If I'm Atlanta and I get Oden, I offer the max to Billups. Call it crazy, but that would put fans in their seats and thats a fine nucleus. 

If we do get 6, or even 7, we should be able to move up by adding in a first next year and maybe Viktor himself. This all depends on two things: What other teams are offering and if Phoenix can get their guy at our spot.


----------



## kulaz3000

theanimal23 said:


> It is top 3 protected. I feel bad for the Hawks due to their ownership and (lack of) fans. If we don't get Oden, I hope they do instead of a team like Boston. If I'm Atlanta and I get Oden, I offer the max to Billups. Call it crazy, but that would put fans in their seats and thats a fine nucleus.
> 
> If we do get 6, or even 7, we should be able to move up by adding in a first next year and maybe Viktor himself. This all depends on two things: What other teams are offering and if Phoenix can get their guy at our spot.


You've also got to remember part of the reason why we got Deng in the first place was that Phoniex didn't want to add more garenteed salary to their roster, thus we got the pick on the cheap.

So i think the chances for the Suns trading the pick is higher than 50% if the right offer comes along. They have alot of salary on their roster already, and to add another high draft choice salary could be a turn off, so they may trade it.. 

But to be honest, i like our team, i rather see where our draft pick lands and pick who we can without disrupting our team.


----------



## theanimal23

I think next year's first should be able to get us to move up two or three spots. We don't give anyone up and we get stronger.

I'm going to go out of the blue, and I'll tell you who I think Phx will take. Corey Brewer. Seems outrageous in a draft strong in big men. But he would become a monster there.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

theanimal23 said:


> It is top 3 protected. I feel bad for the Hawks due to their ownership and (lack of) fans. If we don't get Oden, I hope they do instead of a team like Boston. If I'm Atlanta and I get Oden, I offer the max to Billups. Call it crazy, but that would put fans in their seats and thats a fine nucleus.
> 
> If we do get 6, or even 7, we should be able to move up by adding in a first next year and maybe Viktor himself. This all depends on two things: What other teams are offering and if Phoenix can get their guy at our spot.


Yeah, I know what you mean. A job I had a year ago or so had a branch in Atlanta, and wanted to transfer me down there. I considered it because it was a promotion, and I talked to a few guys there and they said you could get really good, really cheap tickets to the Hawks games, and this was right after they had drafted Marvin Williams (one of my Tarheels) and already had Josh Smith. I knew they sucked, but at least they'd be fun to watch most likely. At the time, I was living in Minneapolis, and I have NO desire to watch the Wolves...just no appeal whatsoever. Only time I went to a game in MN was when Da Bullz came to town  (We had the same record as the Wolves at that time, and beat them pretty handily..was a good game ) Billups with Johnson, Smith, Williams and Oden sounds like a championship team if they can get a coach!

I doubt that after sitting on the bench all year for us that Viktor has ANY value right now. We'd have to give him away I'm afraid. As I've said before though, a late 1st is a crap shoot, even more-so than a lottery pick is, so I assign very little value to them. I'd ship it off to move up for a top draft pick any day.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

kulaz3000 said:


> You've also got to remember part of the reason why we got Deng in the first place was that Phoniex didn't want to add more garenteed salary to their roster, thus we got the pick on the cheap.
> 
> So i think the chances for the Suns trading the pick is higher than 50% if the right offer comes along. They have alot of salary on their roster already, and to add another high draft choice salary could be a turn off, so they may trade it..
> 
> But to be honest, i like our team, i rather see where our draft pick lands and pick who we can without disrupting our team.


How exactly would we trade for the pick from the Suns, without giving back something else that would give them more salary too? Just buy it like we did the Deng pick? Not quite following what you're getting at there.

If all we're giving up is bench-warmers like Viktor, or a future pick, we'd be better off moving up to get a stud than reaching for a random 7 footer to fill a need IMO.


----------



## chifaninca

Just buy it?


The Phoenix Suns sold us their pick for money and the belief we would SUCK the most the following season. They weren't just about the money. They could've sold it to anyone, I think Boston was in the running as well. Point is, We don't SUCK anymore and they aren't going to repeat that mistake with us again.


Keep the pick, be very happy with Hawes, Hibbert, YiJi


----------



## mgolding

Spencer Hawes
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/players/60163
If a player had displayed this kind of play as a freshman last season where would he have been drafted? I'd say as a bare minumum as the 2nd pick by us and perhaps even 1st ahead of Bags. To see 7 and 6 assist games is more than encouraging.

It's largely theoretical at this point (obviously). Though a player that is described as having NBA post moves as a high school senior while being an outstanding passer and solid jump shooter just seems the perfect fit for what the Bulls already have. What a way to develop as a top young centre prosepect, surrounded by a hard working team that is already outstanding defensively and won't require any miracle work while also providing a real opportunity to make a difference with his strengths and the teams needs.


----------



## The ROY

Trading Thabo to move up a spot? no thanks. The kid is gonna be SICK, Phoenix wanted him for a REASON man. Just take your chances with the pick we have, he's gonna be one of the best 3rd guards in the NBA next year.


----------



## theanimal23

You know whats kind of funny. Maybe this all comes full circle: We get two prospects who have similar strengths as Eddy and Tyson, but could turn out better due to the foundation of this team. This relates to SST's thread about tanking.

I'll be fine with Hawes, but am hoping for the Big 2 and Wright.


----------



## theanimal23

The ROY said:


> Trading Thabo to move up a spot? no thanks. The kid is gonna be SICK, Phoenix wanted him for a REASON man. Just take your chances with the pick we have, he's gonna be one of the best 3rd guards in the NBA next year.


I agree. The thing I noticed for now in Thabo, is his lack of confidence it seems. He comes off a pick, and he is always looking to defer. The kid has enough skill to be a playmaker. It might be due to his lack of minutes. Hopefully next year he takes it to the next step.

Next year's pick and Duhon are prolly our best assets. I don't know how much it gets us though


----------



## The ROY

theanimal23 said:


> I agree. The thing I noticed for now in Thabo, is his lack of confidence it seems. He comes off a pick, and he is always looking to defer. The kid has enough skill to be a playmaker. It might be due to his lack of minutes. Hopefully next year he takes it to the next step.
> 
> Next year's pick and Duhon are prolly our best assets. I don't know how much it gets us though


Recently, Thabo's be showing some SERIOUS confidence in his jumper though. Hell, he's on the verge of becoming deadly off those screens. With his defense, added confidence and his incredible passing ability, I think he'll be MUCH better than Doug Christie was. Don't wanna lose that guy.

Hell, Atlanta can STILL win a top 3 pick so I wouldn't worry about it just yet but Brandan Wright (6"10) & Tyrus (6"9-6"10) as the frontline, we'd be MONSTERS.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

The ROY said:


> Recently, Thabo's be showing some SERIOUS confidence in his jumper though. Hell, he's on the verge of becoming deadly off those screens. With his defense, added confidence and his incredible passing ability, I think he'll be MUCH better than Doug Christie was. Don't wanna lose that guy.
> 
> Hell, Atlanta can STILL win a top 3 pick so I wouldn't worry about it just yet but Brandan Wright (6"10) & Tyrus (6"9-6"10) as the frontline, we'd be MONSTERS.


First off, Brandan Wright shows up on some websites such as ESPN as undersized for a power forward (6' 9" and 205). Looking at the kid, I think he may well be shorter than 6' 10", and he's awfully skinny. When I look at Wright, I don't see a future NBA center. So if we drafted him, he would have to share minutes with Tyrus at the 4, and Thomas has shown that despite his desire to be a small forward, almost all of his production this year has been near the hoop. 

I don't know how a Wright/Thomas frontcourt works long term. 

Consider me one of those not terribly impressed by Wright. He's certainly a talent, and I know he has very long arms and is very coordinated, but I saw him deferring to Hansbrough a lot this last year, and I would like to see a player who gets drafted as high as he will know how to dominate. Wright was a solid college player as a freshman, but wasn't overly aggressive or dominant. In him I see a solid post player but not a transcendant one. He doesn't look anywhere near the level of a prospect of Durant or Oden. To my eyes (and I only saw him play about 5 games), I would be more excited about drafting Horford, Hibbert, or Hawes, to be honest.


----------



## johnston797

Darius Miles Davis said:


> First off, Brandan Wright shows up on some websites such as ESPN as undersized for a power forward (6' 9" and 205). Looking at the kid, I think he may well be shorter than 6' 10", and he's awfully skinny. When I look at Wright, I don't see a future NBA center. So if we drafted him, he would have to share minutes with Tyrus at the 4, and Thomas has shown that despite his desire to be a small forward, almost all of his production this year has been near the hoop.
> 
> I don't know how a Wright/Thomas frontcourt works long term.


I don't see how one could have watched Wright and think he is less than 6'10" in shoes. I'm pretty sure DraftExpress measured him a year ago and he is legit.


----------



## johnston797

Found it: http://www.draftexpress.com/index.php

Brandan Wright, 6-9 (WITHOUT SHOES), 9-.05 Standing Reach, 7-4.5 Wing Span

*That's huge and from a year ago.*


----------



## theanimal23

johnston797 said:


> Found it: http://www.draftexpress.com/index.php
> 
> Brandan Wright, 6-9 (WITHOUT SHOES), 9-.05 Standing Reach, 7-4.5 Wing Span
> 
> *That's huge and from a year ago.*


People say 6'10 and 7'6" wingspan. Even if its what you said, which seems more accurate, thats amazing.

He's my guy outside the obvious choices. He and Tyrus would be *SICK*


----------



## theanimal23

DMD, in the tournament, it was Wright who was a presence, not Hansbrough. Why? Wright is a physical freak while Hansbrough is not. Simply put. While he may not have the bulk, I feel if either of these guys become 235lbs-ish (him and Tyrus) that is plenty of weight to hang down low. The only guys who would be bigger would be Yao, Oden, Howard, and Curry. Yao is in the west, Curry is Curry. 

Howard and Oden will be forces to deal with, but we have some incredible length on our side. This is when you get guys who are bascially 6 fouls to have on your bench too. You can't pass up a guy who is as talented as Wright.

We would be Phoenix with defense. Wright and Ty have a standing reach of 7'3" or so. This is without them jumping.


----------



## Nu_Omega

theanimal23 said:


> If you go to youtube, there is a Washington Huskies Vid that shows highlights of the entire year. Someone over at RealGM mentioned this video, and around the 4:50 mark, you can see highlights of Hawes. I was impressed.
> 
> I know ROY isn't a big fan of Yi, but he seems nice. But, I wonder how athletic he is compared to the guys at the NBA level. I hope he has the 'it' factor which Yao lacks, otherwise he'd be the MVP each year.
> 
> Sonics down by 11 at half. Kobe stopped shooting in the 2nd qtr, so the Sonics caught up. Hoping for a miracle. Aren't we all?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHjRxsM6pdQ

I think you meant this clip? No doubt about it, Hawes's repertoire of post moves looks nifty and it seems like he can shoot the ball too. I'm pretty impressed. Don't think he'll ever develop into the in-your-face power centers like Shaq or D.Howard but more of a "smooth operator" type of center ala a better version of Valde Divac or Sarbonis. He's a bit skinny though but other than that i think he'll fit into the bulls' roster perfectly with his offense. 
I'm more likely to pick him since Oden and Horford are mostly to be gone by the time its Pax's turn to choose.


----------



## The ROY

johnston797 said:


> Found it: http://www.draftexpress.com/index.php
> 
> Brandan Wright, 6-9 (WITHOUT SHOES), 9-.05 Standing Reach, 7-4.5 Wing Span
> 
> *That's huge and from a year ago.*


Yeah, I knew he was a legit 6"9 without shoes. He's only 19 so he's still capable of getting to atleast 6"11.

I don't want him to play C but ugh, regardless Ty and Brandan would murder together


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Nu_Omega said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHjRxsM6pdQ
> 
> I think you meant this clip? No doubt about it, Hawes's repertoire of post moves looks nifty and it seems like he can shoot the ball too. I'm pretty impressed. Don't think he'll ever develop into the in-your-face power centers like Shaq or D.Howard but more of a "smooth operator" type of center ala a better version of Valde Divac or Sarbonis. He's a bit skinny though but other than that i think he'll fit into the bulls' roster perfectly with his offense.
> I'm more likely to pick him since Oden and Horford are mostly to be gone by the time its Pax's turn to choose.


Yeah, Hawes is my guy this draft if we're not picking #1 or 2. Brandon Roy was my guy last draft, but I actually have no connection at all to the University of Washington. Hawes reminds me of Gasol in a couple of ways. For one, he's a really good passer. Also, he's capable of scoring with both hands, which is a huge plus in the post. He'll have to gain some weight, but I think he's going to score in the NBA. Plus he plays hard. I think he'd fit right in with what we're doing in Chicago. He would give us the two things we need most right now: height and post scoring.


----------



## theanimal23

Outside of Oden, Durant, Wright, and Horford (his height is kinda an issue for me, not his game), Hawes is my man. So if we don't get into the top 4/5, I want Hawes.


----------



## The ROY

theanimal23 said:


> Outside of Oden, Durant, Wright, and Horford (his height is kinda an issue for me, not his game), Hawes is my man. So if we don't get into the top 4/5, I want Hawes.


My board :

1. Oden
2. Durant


3. Wright
4. Hawes


5. Hibbert
6. Noah
7. Splitter
8. Jianlian


----------



## JeremyB0001

DaBabyBullz said:


> What does your draft board for the Bulls look like? I've always been in the BPA camp, unless it makes no sense at all.
> 
> For me, it'd be:
> 1. Oden/Durant...Durant is better, but Oden's close and a need...coin-flip
> 3. Brandan Wright...too good to pass up...length makes him play like he's 7'
> 4. Hawes...probably best fit, maybe even more-so than Oden
> 5. Horford...good player, but doesn't fit as well, a bit undersized
> 
> I really don't have a lot of interest in anyone else. I guess after those guys, I'd have to go to guys I haven't really seen before...pretty much any 7 footer, and the huge dude from Georgetown (saw him play, but can never remember his name...he looked good at times, and not so good at others)


I did one in another thread but maybe it's time for an updated, abbreviated version.

1. Oden
2. Durant
3. Horford
4. Wright
5. Hawes
6. Hibbert

I might flip Wright and Horford depending on how they measure and perform in workouts. I'm torn as far as Hibbert but with the top five guys I don't think it's clear enough that any of the non-bigs are superior to the bigs to pass up our need in the frontcourt.

Edit: I realized that I left out Noah. My sense is that if he falls that far and the first five guys are off the board the Bulls have to take him but I really don't care for him.

Edit #2: I also forgot Yi. I'd slot him in there at 5 or 6.


----------



## The ROY

Tonight's games are SUPERRRRR important

NJ @ NY - I think NJ has too much pride to lose, especially when they can position themselves better

MIN @ DEN - HOPEFULLY denver doesn't give a damn and let's MIN take this

POR @ UTA - SEE ABOVE

NOK @ SAC - c'mon SAC!

if all goes well, we could be in what? the 5th position by the end of the night?


----------



## theanimal23

If tonight goes perfect, all we need is Seattle to beat DAL Wed.


----------



## TripleDouble

I want the Bulls to get a top 7 pick so they can get one of:

Oden
Durant
Wright
Hawes
Hibbert
Horford
Jienlian

If one of those guys isn't available, I would trade up/down or for a veteran.


----------



## JeremyB0001

The two things you have to remember about Thabo are that 1) there is some evidence that foreign players usually take a large step forward in their second season 2) we've been abnormally healthy in recent years. God forbid if something were to happen to Kirk or Ben, we'd be in bad shape if we were forced to rely on Du to play starters minutes and Griff or perhaps a free agent as the first guard off the bench.

I really think whether we can work out a deal to move up with a future first rounder hinges on what players the teams ahead of us like. There's a considerable dropoff moving down three or four spots at the top of a draft so I don't think the future first rounder will be enough to entice a team who likes a player where they're drafting to make a move.

I agree that Phoenix wasn't just "selling" us a pick, they thought they'd get a pretty solid one back. Furthemore, sitting at four or five in this draft is likely to be valued more than 7 in that draft. My sense is that Pax's fiscal conservatism means that he'd avoid taking on Banks' contract. That's one of those situations where I'd hope Reinsdorf would step in and say "If it will give the team that much of an edge I'm willing to accept a luxury tax hit down the line," but it appears he's repeatedly refused to do so in the past so I won't be holding my breath.


----------



## charlietyra

The ROY said:


> Tonight's games are SUPERRRRR important
> 
> NJ @ NY - I think NJ has too much pride to lose, especially when they can position themselves better
> 
> MIN @ DEN - HOPEFULLY denver doesn't give a damn and let's MIN take this
> 
> POR @ UTA - SEE ABOVE
> 
> NOK @ SAC - c'mon SAC!
> 
> if all goes well, we could be in what? the 5th position by the end of the night?


I think the DePaul Blue Demons can beat the TWolves at this point. As for Portland at Utah, I know that Sloan is steaming about the relatively poor performance of his team lately. He is not going to let this one get away.


----------



## RoRo

nets up 9 in the third. 
curry is out with a tight hamstring and not probable to return.


----------



## theanimal23

RoRo said:


> nets up 9 in the third.
> curry is out with a tight hamstring and not probable to return.


Good news for us


----------



## theanimal23

Denver could lose to Minny, as Denver has nothing to play for. They are stuck at the 6th slot.


----------



## RoRo

and it's offical, knicks lose. 
gogo minny, utah has control of portland.


----------



## theanimal23

So Minny decides they really shouldn't win a game and is losing at half now. Denver better not play any starting caliber players in the second half. They are stuck at seed #6.

I would take an NYK loss with a Portland tie if the year finished that way. 

GSW will play Portland tough Wed unless they clinch the 8th seed before that. Then we could HOPE for a Portland victory (if Roy plays) and Seattle over Dallas. Again, HOPE.

Two key games for the season: Next NYK game, and Minny tonight.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

Darius Miles Davis said:


> First off, Brandan Wright shows up on some websites such as ESPN as undersized for a power forward (6' 9" and 205). Looking at the kid, I think he may well be shorter than 6' 10", and he's awfully skinny. When I look at Wright, I don't see a future NBA center. So if we drafted him, he would have to share minutes with Tyrus at the 4, and Thomas has shown that despite his desire to be a small forward, almost all of his production this year has been near the hoop.
> 
> I don't know how a Wright/Thomas frontcourt works long term.
> 
> Consider me one of those not terribly impressed by Wright. He's certainly a talent, and I know he has very long arms and is very coordinated, but I saw him deferring to Hansbrough a lot this last year, and I would like to see a player who gets drafted as high as he will know how to dominate. Wright was a solid college player as a freshman, but wasn't overly aggressive or dominant. In him I see a solid post player but not a transcendant one. He doesn't look anywhere near the level of a prospect of Durant or Oden. To my eyes (and I only saw him play about 5 games), I would be more excited about drafting Horford, Hibbert, or Hawes, to be honest.


I don't think we need a 5. Wallace is just a 4 playing the 5 anyway. Wright plays about 5 inches bigger than Wallace does, and can actually score. We could go with a Sun-like scheme, with Amare really being a super-athletic 4, playing the 5. Tyrus and Brandan could team up to be a great post duo. He can get pretty dominant at times too, and make some Tyrus-like plays. As I've said many times, he's a Tyrus with offense, without the attitude.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

theanimal23 said:


> DMD, in the tournament, it was Wright who was a presence, not Hansbrough. Why? Wright is a physical freak while Hansbrough is not. Simply put. While he may not have the bulk, I feel if either of these guys become 235lbs-ish (him and Tyrus) that is plenty of weight to hang down low. The only guys who would be bigger would be Yao, Oden, Howard, and Curry. Yao is in the west, Curry is Curry.
> 
> Howard and Oden will be forces to deal with, but we have some incredible length on our side. This is when you get guys who are bascially 6 fouls to have on your bench too. You can't pass up a guy who is as talented as Wright.
> 
> We would be Phoenix with defense. Wright and Ty have a standing reach of 7'3" or so. This is without them jumping.


I'm assuming that you mean their wing-span is 7'3", which I think is actually about 7'5" for each. Their standing reach has to be 9' plus. Hell, I'm 6', and my standing reach is like 7'8" lol.


----------



## SALO

So I'm watching some of the Wolves/Nuggets game on NBATV and there's no KG. Camby is in street clothes for Denver but they're still playing Nene, Melo, and Iverson. C'mon Karl, let your key guys rest up for San Antonio!

It sucks rooting for Ricky Davis.


----------



## theanimal23

I know why are Denver's key players still playing? WHY OH WHY?


----------



## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls!

Minnesota is a disgrace! They could drive all night on this full tank!


----------



## tweedy

If the Knicks lose their final game, Minnesota and Portland's records won't matter _that_ much. Sole possession of the 6th worst record garners about a 6.3% chance at the #1. A two-way tie brings it down to about 5.3%. If all three teams finish with 32 wins, we'll have about a 4.5% chance. But if the Knicks win and the other two lose out, the odds drop to 2.8%.

A three-way tie looks likely, so the odds are 4.5% for the 1st, 4.9% for the 2nd, and 5.7% for the 3rd.


----------



## theanimal23

How badly is Curry hurt?

I expect NYK to beat Charlotte. In my book, Charlotte will want to tank, and NYK will break my heart. I'm going to believe that heading into Wed. Don't try to change my mind.


----------



## theanimal23

tweedy said:


> If the Knicks lose their final game, Minnesota and Portland's records won't matter _that_ much. Sole possession of the 6th worst record garners about a 6.3% chance at the #1. A two-way tie brings it down to about 5.3%. If all three teams finish with 32 wins, we'll have about a 4.5% chance. But if the Knicks win and the other two lose out, the odds drop to 2.8%.
> 
> A three-way tie looks likely, so the odds are 4.5% for the 1st, 4.9% for the 2nd, and 5.7% for the 3rd.


Thanks. So say that happens and we end up with the 8th pick due to coin flips. If two teams jump into the lottery we end up at 10. It's not bad. I think staying at 8 will guarantee us Hawes and Hibbert possibly.

As much as I'll be pissed about getting the 3rd pick and missing out on the big two, I'll be just as happy knowing that the Knicks were in the 8th spot about a month ago.

Denver pisses me off tonight. They have absolutely nothing to play for the rest of the year. 

Memphis will destroy Minnesota. 

Tomorrow GSW plays Dallas, and LAC plays Phx. The top two seeds have nothing to play for. I expect both GSW and LAC to win. LAC is one game behind, and I think they own the tiebreaker. So GSW will go into Wed. thinking they need a victory as it is likely they both play the same time on Wed. End result: Portland loses another game.

NYK @ Charlotte. Chicago @ NJ. Two of the biggest games of the year. Both have immense implications.


----------



## tweedy

theanimal23 said:


> So say that happens and we end up with the 8th pick due to coin flips. If two teams jump into the lottery we end up at 10. It's not bad. I think staying at 8 will guarantee us Hawes and Hibbert possibly.
> 
> As much as I'll be pissed about getting the 3rd pick and missing out on the big two, I'll be just as happy knowing that the Knicks were in the 8th spot about a month ago.


8-10 in this draft is damn good. I think the pick will yield Hawes, Jianlian, Noah, or a trade. I'm completely satisfied with those options. Hawes in a Bulls uni is becoming very appealing.

This is the rare instance where a fanbase can get excited about a playoff run _and_ all of the draft business. It's a good time to be a Bulls fan.


----------



## tweedy

By the way, Bulls-Nets will be on ESPN, thank god.


----------



## theanimal23

tweedy said:


> By the way, Bulls-Nets will be on ESPN, thank god.


This Wed?

Btw, Tomorrow the Wiz play Orlando. Wiz are depleted. But will Orlando complete? Nets clinched the 7th seed tonight. They can only go up to 6. That game is HUGE for us. We need the Wiz to lose out if Philly doesn't pull off a miracle.

Sheesh, I wish I had a bunch of quarters to throw into a fountain. All these basketball miracles I'm asking for.


----------



## tweedy

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap;_ylt=AlUdrjAF5v13qaB_ruKH6s.8vLYF?gid=2007041618

In the game notes. 

If the Bulls do draw Washington in the first round, is anything less than a conference finals appearance a fantastic disappointment? Would it be regardless of whether they face NJ or Washington?


----------



## theanimal23

tweedy said:


> http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap;_ylt=AlUdrjAF5v13qaB_ruKH6s.8vLYF?gid=2007041618
> 
> In the game notes.
> 
> If the Bulls do draw Washington in the first round, is anything less than a conference finals appearance a fantastic disappointment? Would it be regardless of whether they face NJ or Washington?


Anything less of the ECF with the 2 seed is a disappointment. I don't care if you get 50 wins. The only thing that would make this season not a disappointment is to get Oden. If you get the 2 seed and lose, then we suck. The whole season means nothing.

Draw the Wiz, I expect 4-0. Draw the Nets, I expect a 4-2 series win in the first two rounds.

If we get the 2 seed, I think we will have a legit shot to win the East.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

DaBabyBullz said:


> I don't think we need a 5. Wallace is just a 4 playing the 5 anyway. Wright plays about 5 inches bigger than Wallace does, and can actually score. We could go with a Sun-like scheme, with Amare really being a super-athletic 4, playing the 5. Tyrus and Brandan could team up to be a great post duo. He can get pretty dominant at times too, and make some Tyrus-like plays. As I've said many times, he's a Tyrus with offense, without the attitude.


The big difference between the sizes of Wright, Wallace, and Stoudemire is weight/muscle mass. Both Stoudamire and Wallace (especially Wallace) would have to be considered undersized centers, but Wallace weighs 35 pounds more than Wright and Stoudemire weighs 40 pounds more, at least according to ESPN. 

I'll say it again, Brandan Wright can not play center in the NBA unless his body changes drastically. So how does he fit on our team? Maybe he'll be the best player available when our pick comes around, but he's not an ideal fit.


----------



## JeremyB0001

theanimal23 said:


> How badly is Curry hurt?
> 
> I expect NYK to beat Charlotte. In my book, Charlotte will want to tank, and NYK will break my heart. I'm going to believe that heading into Wed. Don't try to change my mind.


If Charlotte intends to tank then someone didn't get the memo because they're 7 out of their last 10.


----------



## johnston797

If he wants to, B. Wright will be plenty big enough to play some 5. The kid is going to put on some weight.


----------



## theanimal23

JeremyB0001 said:


> If Charlotte intends to tank then someone didn't get the memo because they're 7 out of their last 10.


Listen, don't spoil the surprised look on my face IF the Knicks lose Wed 

Utah sent Portland a nice message with a 33pt win


----------



## DaBabyBullz

Darius Miles Davis said:


> The big difference between the sizes of Wright, Wallace, and Stoudemire is weight/muscle mass. Both Stoudamire and Wallace (especially Wallace) would have to be considered undersized centers, but Wallace weighs 35 pounds more than Wright and Stoudemire weighs 40 pounds more, at least according to ESPN.
> 
> I'll say it again, Brandan Wright can not play center in the NBA unless his body changes drastically. So how does he fit on our team? Maybe he'll be the best player available when our pick comes around, but he's not an ideal fit.


I know that Brandan is skinny. BUT, he plays a lot bigger than Wallace does, and he is only 18-19 years old. I know that I put on about 30-40 lbs of muscle from 18-21 years old. Granted, by looking at his body he doesn't have that body-type that can put on bulk easily, but you never know. How big was Wallace when he was 19? What about Amare? (I'm seriously asking, and I'm betting you can't answer for Wallace)

So, basically, what I see in Brandan is by far the BPA if we are picking at #3 and Oden/Durant go 1/2 as expected. He will be a bit of a project, kinda like Tyrus but not as raw, but it'll pay off in the end I think. And, as I said before, the Suns don't even really use a center, and how many teams actually do have a legitimate center these days? VERY few have a legit, traditional center. In a few years, we could get by with Tyrus/Brandan in the post against damn near every team in the league. Shaq....old...he'll be gone by the time Big Ben is. Yao...slow and lesser supporting cast....Tyrus/Brandan would murder him with the weak-side shot-blocking cause he's too slow and clumsy. Duncan....Tyrus already showed he can guard and block him. Dirk....again, Tyrus already showed he could guard and block him as well. There aren't many legit 7 footers we couldn't handle, and they'd be very hard for anyone to defend against, or drive the paint against. Tyrus on D in the lane x 2 = scared opponents.


----------



## Orange Julius Irving

Bulls_Bulls_Bulls! said:


> Minnesota is a disgrace! They could drive all night on this full tank!


If there was a team that deserved either a fine or an investigation for tanking it has to be Minny.

As far as I know KG is FINE. 

They have already been punished for the Joe Johnson faisco so it's not too far fetched that they are trying something again.

Maybe they loose the rights to KG and we get for him nothing (That is nothing in trade, just a contract).


----------



## The ROY

bottom line is, Wright & Thomas would DOMINATE and would be just as comparable in the long run as Bosh/Bargnani, Howard/Milicic etc.

Maybe not as BIG, but would still dominate, none the less...

I feel like we need a combo that will MATCH and work off eachother's strength's and weaknesses...

hawes and tyrus might be better since their so DIFFERENT but wright and thomas give u very similar game but also have SICK motors and are athletic as hell


----------



## theanimal23

If we beat the odds and get a top 3 pick, let alone Oden or Durant, we have to make a thread devoted to John Paxson.


----------



## The ROY

theanimal23 said:


> If we beat the odds and get a top 3 pick, let alone Oden or Durant, we have to make a thread devoted to John Paxson.


Paxson = Jerry West Pt. 2


----------



## RoRo

theanimal23 said:


> How badly is Curry hurt?
> 
> I expect NYK to beat Charlotte. In my book, Charlotte will want to tank, and NYK will break my heart. I'm going to believe that heading into Wed. Don't try to change my mind.


ny's announcers used the words "tender" and "tight" to describe the hamstring. 
doesn't too serious.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

DaBabyBullz said:


> I know that Brandan is skinny. BUT, he plays a lot bigger than Wallace does, and he is only 18-19 years old. I know that I put on about 30-40 lbs of muscle from 18-21 years old. Granted, by looking at his body he doesn't have that body-type that can put on bulk easily, but you never know. How big was Wallace when he was 19? What about Amare? (I'm seriously asking, and I'm betting you can't answer for Wallace)


No, I can't tell you about Wallace's size/weight in high school or even his first year of college, but here is a figure for Amare coming out of high school weighing 240lb:

http://www.nbadraft.net/2002.htm


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

DaBabyBullz said:


> I know that Brandan is skinny. BUT, he plays a lot bigger than Wallace does, and he is only 18-19 years old.


What does plays a lot bigger mean?


----------



## DaBabyBullz

Darius Miles Davis said:


> No, I can't tell you about Wallace's size/weight in high school or even his first year of college, but here is a figure for Amare coming out of high school weighing 240lb:
> 
> http://www.nbadraft.net/2002.htm


I figured it'd be something like that. I couldn't remember for sure, but I thought Amare was probably fairly muscular even back then. I'd bet that Wallace was fairly muscular too, but nowhere near the size he is now, and he is a LOT smaller to begin with.

BTW, when I say that Wright plays a lot bigger than Wallace, I'm referring to length. You watch Wright make some plays and his arms are way up there, whereas Wallace always plays like a runt to me. Granted Wallace has went downhill and doesn't get up there like he used to, but he's several inches "smaller" (both height, wingspan and reach) so Wright with his better size and athleticism plays like a guy much taller than he is. Just like Tyrus. That's just my opinion of course, and Wright was doing it in college, but I just think that if he is able to bulk up he'll be a lot better prospect than Wallace is at this point in his career. (I'm not impressed with Wallace at all this year though, and I've made no secret about it either.)


----------



## RoRo

click to see how ripped ben was at virgina union


----------



## Nu_Omega

No matter who Pax drafts, the most important thing IMO is that the rook should not be sharing minutes with Tyrus. 
TT is gonna replace PJ and he'll need all the PT he can afford to develop at the 4. 

True, the duo of Brandan and Tyrus is gonna be a force to be reckon with but Bradan will need to put on another 30 pounds which i think is quite a lot to gain in a season and i don't see him sharing the minutes with big Ben and that's what i'm afraid of. That's why a legit 5 or a big 4 who can play 5 is more important for us.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

Nu_Omega said:


> No matter who Pax drafts, the most important thing IMO is that the rook should not be sharing minutes with Tyrus.
> TT is gonna replace PJ and he'll need all the PT he can afford to develop at the 4.
> 
> True, the duo of Brandan and Tyrus is gonna be a force to be reckon with but Bradan will need to put on another 30 pounds which i think is quite a lot to gain in a season and i don't see him sharing the minutes with big Ben and that's what i'm afraid of. That's why a legit 5 or a big 4 who can play 5 is more important for us.



I see your point, BUT, I think that initially, Brandan could backup Tyrus and Big Ben as a rookie. In 2-3 years he could replace Ben as our center. Remember, we don't really run a traditional scheme as is, with no post up center, so I think he could be a very good replacement for Wallace when Wallace's contract is up, and by then Brandan could've bulked up quite a bit. 

Fact remains though, that we already have all 5 positions locked up with decent starters...Kirk, Ben, Luol, Tyrus, Ben. So all the rookie will be is a 6th man if Noc is let go, or 7th man if he stays (this is assuming he'll be ahead of Du-Chump on the depth chart, and Thabo too for that matter. As a rookie, his role could even be Thabo's this year. Sit on the bench, adjust to the game, and come in when we're screwed due to injuries. Hopefully both Thabo and our rookie (Brandan or Hawes hopefully...being realistic), get more play time than Thabo did last year though.


----------



## JeremyB0001

Bottom line is that Wallace has been considered the best defensive _center_ in the league whereas in a best case scenario, Wright would add enough muscle to guard centers by his third season or so. I'm not saying that's a great argument against drafting Wright if he's available but we shouldn't delude ourselves: a Wright/TT frontcourt would be of the unorthadox, new school variety. Against a more traditional 7 foot center like Oden or Howard, we'd likely have trouble matching up at times on defense.


----------



## Deng101

Really the only C's that would create matchup problems are Shaq, Yao, and Curry. Than to a lesser extent guys like Amare, Boozer, and Howard. But with how TT plays help defense besides Shaq/Yao we would be fine. And we will have Ben Wallace long enough for Shaq, who only has so many years.


----------



## kulaz3000

Go Philly! Go Orlando...

By the way.. thats a huge as* photo of Ben Wallace.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

JeremyB0001 said:


> Bottom line is that Wallace has been considered the best defensive _center_ in the league whereas in a best case scenario, Wright would add enough muscle to guard centers by his third season or so. I'm not saying that's a great argument against drafting Wright if he's available but we shouldn't delude ourselves: a Wright/TT frontcourt would be of the unorthadox, new school variety. Against a more traditional 7 foot center like Oden or Howard, we'd likely have trouble matching up at times on defense.


I agree with you there. BUT, at the same time, there hasn't been crap for centers in the league for quite a while either. Since Hakeem, David Robinson, Ewing retired, there haven't been any centers aside from Shaq that were worth a crap. Yao just emerged, and he's not that great IMO. Dwight Howard is just getting started, Oden isn't in the NBA yet. A duo of Tyrus/Brandan should be able to take care of business on those guys pretty well, especially considering that our 1, 2 and 3 and 4 will most likely be better than Howard/Oden's supporting cast. It's pure speculation of course, but I just think it'd work. We got killed due to length, and Brandan would provide a LOT of that, along with athleticism. He wouldn't be the ideal fit...I'm not trying to say he would be. But he might very well be the best fit that we might be able to get. Oden and Hawes are the only guys that might be better fits....haven't seen a whole lot of Hawes, but all the highlights are offensive, nothing defensive. Wright is, IMO, without a doubt the 3rd best player in the draft though.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

kulaz3000 said:


> Go Philly! Go Orlando...
> 
> By the way.. thats a huge as* photo of Ben Wallace.


No kidding. It'd be nice if a mod or the poster would delete it so it didn't stretch out the whole page, making it much harder to type/read.


----------



## RoRo

DaBabyBullz said:


> No kidding. It'd be nice if a mod or the poster would delete it so it didn't stretch out the whole page, making it much harder to type/read.


done 

you guys need bigger monitors, jk


----------



## RoRo

toronto loses to detroit, so the three way tie scenario is out the window.


----------



## theanimal23

I think, albeit different, we would have a lot of success with Wright and Thomas. We just need them to end up around the 235lbs range. That is a lot of muscle. These guys will be able to outrun anyone. Tyrus is already strong, its just he needs weight to hold is ground. The length would bother people. You gotta shoot over one person, and then you got the other jumping from behind to block it.


----------



## The ROY

theanimal23 said:


> I think, albeit different, we would have a lot of success with Wright and Thomas. We just need them to end up around the 235lbs range. That is a lot of muscle. These guys will be able to outrun anyone. Tyrus is already strong, its just he needs weight to hold is ground. The length would bother people. You gotta shoot over one person, and then you got the other jumping from behind to block it.



I personally wouldn't want to see a Thomas/Wright frontline if I were the OTHER team. No matter HOW big their guys are, OUR guys are much faster and much more athletic. 

Let us stop getting SO excited about Wright yet though, he hasn't declared nor do we have the 3rd pick


----------



## giusd

The bulls need a CENTER really bad. The bulls are small at center with big ben who is only 6'9" and TT is a good size for a PF but i think small for a center. There is no way that Pax doesnt take either Hibbert or Hawes. TT or Ben play great D and are outstanding rebounders so matching them with a skill, offensive minded center like Hawes makes good sense. And Hibbert his huge and has soft hands and can finsih well around the rim. He also plays great D so either is going to be pax's pick. I hear Curry is out of the last game of the season against CHA and with Curry the knicks dont have much of a chance. If the knicks lose on Wed i think we end up in a three way tie for the 5th to 7th pick and with that we should have our choice of either Hibbert to hawes. Getting one of the first three picks seems like a long shot but that would be great. It looks like we traded Curry for TT and a player like Hibbert or Hawes and IMHO i think that means we got the better of the deal.

david


----------



## theanimal23

I doubt this happens, but a GSW win tonight over Dallas, and a LAC loss to Phoenix (who I doubt plays their starters) will have GSW cliniching the 8th spot. GSW won't be able to pass LAL for the 7th seed as LAL has the tiebreaker. 

GSW plays Portland tomorrow. It's a small possiblity, but we could have a GSW team resting its starters tomorrow vs Ptl. Lets hope they do.


----------



## JeremyB0001

DaBabyBullz said:


> I agree with you there. BUT, at the same time, there hasn't been crap for centers in the league for quite a while either. Since Hakeem, David Robinson, Ewing retired, there haven't been any centers aside from Shaq that were worth a crap. Yao just emerged, and he's not that great IMO. Dwight Howard is just getting started, Oden isn't in the NBA yet.


Hmm. Well I agree that the issue wouldn't come up all that often. Still, I think there are going to be a handful of guys (Darko, Oden, Howard, Yao, Shaq until he retires, Duncan) who may cause you some serious issues. Yao averages 25 PPG and he's 7-6 so he's a problem for any team and especially the ones who start non-traditional centers.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

JeremyB0001 said:


> Hmm. Well I agree that the issue wouldn't come up all that often. Still, I think there are going to be a handful of guys (Darko, Oden, Howard, Yao, Shaq until he retires, Duncan) who may cause you some serious issues. Yao averages 25 PPG and he's 7-6 so he's a problem for any team and especially the ones who start non-traditional centers.


True enough. Depending on where Oden goes, we might not face him often at all...same thing with Darko in FA (I'm hoping we could pick him up, even if it meant trading Du-Chump or Nocioni...depending on who we get in the draft of course). Yao is western conference, so wouldn't play him much unless we met in the finals. He might score 25, but he's slow and clumsy, and a combination of Tyrus and Brandan would destroy him I think. He'd get toasted on defense non-stop, and I think with the help-defense (shot blocking) of both Brandan and Tyrus we could defend him well too. Tyrus has already shown he can guard and stuff Duncan and Dirk.

So right now, Dwight Howard is the only guy that would give us fits very often at all. (Eastern Conference)



I guess when it's all said and done, I don't consider an elite "true" center to be a necessity, because we won 6 championships without one. Granted we had MJ and Scottie, but it's a proven fact that you don't need a great center to win. 

MJ, Scottie and Horace averaged about 64 combined points a game (championship years).

Kirk, Ben and Luol average about 58 combined points a game (this season).

We're much stronger at the 1 with Kirk than in the past, but a huge step backward at the 2. Right now, Luol's scoring stats are comparable to Scottie's, but he's nowhere near the impact player Scottie was. We are already improved at the 5 drastically over Longley, Wennington, Purdue, and Cartwright. At the 4, we're way back from Horace Grant (14 ppg, 9 rpg) and Rodman (5 ppg, 15 rpg) approximating their stats in championship years. Key thing here though, is that we're MUCH younger than the Bulls were that won championships. Jordan was in his 7th season and Scottie was in his 4th when we won the first championship for example. The most we have now is Kirk in his 4th season, aside from Wallace, who I don't consider a long-term part of the team like Kirk, Ben, Luol, Tyrus. 

I say wait at least 3 more years with this core before expecting championships. By then Tyrus will HOPEFULLY be our Horace, and Kirk/Ben/Luol will come close to comparing to BJ/MJ/Pippen. It doesn't take much to be better than our old Centers, so Hawes/Brandan Wright are easily upgrades there I think. We won't have the superstars in Jordan and Pippen, but this pick will hopefully net us another impact player that could make us a more complete team and able to be comparable to the old Bulls.


----------



## theanimal23

LAC beat Phoenix. Don't know how much Phoenix tried, but now GSW needs to win or have an LAC loss to place them into the playoffs.

Look for GSW to destroy Portland tomorrow.

*MEM @ MINNY* - Minny will lose. Memphis will play to win. They are locked for the 1 seed. Look for Gasol and company to have a huge victory.

*LAL @ SACTO* - LAL has nothing to play for. The 6th seed is out of reach. I believe they have the tiebreaker over GSW (Head to Head), and they have the tiebreaker over LAC (Divisional record). *Maybe *the sit Kobe out.

*Dallas @ Seattle* - Dallas' scrubs won't play. It could be the last game in Seattle, period. Rashard Lewis will go into FA. Lots of reasons why the Sonics could pull this out. But will they? I don't have much faith in them, although they were competitive on Sunday vs LAL.

This is all a moot point if NYK beats Charlotte. 

*** Fingers crossed ***


----------



## The ROY

Seattle should beat Dallas's scrubs.

Kobe & Lamar definintely won't play vs. Sacramento.

Memphis will win, regardless vs. Minne


----------



## JeremyB0001

DaBabyBullz said:


> True enough. Depending on where Oden goes, we might not face him often at all...same thing with Darko in FA (I'm hoping we could pick him up, even if it meant trading Du-Chump or Nocioni...depending on who we get in the draft of course). Yao is western conference, so wouldn't play him much unless we met in the finals. He might score 25, but he's slow and clumsy, and a combination of Tyrus and Brandan would destroy him I think. He'd get toasted on defense non-stop, and I think with the help-defense (shot blocking) of both Brandan and Tyrus we could defend him well too. Tyrus has already shown he can guard and stuff Duncan and Dirk.
> 
> So right now, Dwight Howard is the only guy that would give us fits very often at all. (Eastern Conference)


Yeah but we still play each Western Conference team several times a season and there's no telling that rookies or veterans won't wind up in the East. It's an issue that would affect the team sporadically as opposed to rarely. I think we'd take our lumps every once and a while, they'd just be worth taking to have an athletic, running team. Look at Phoenix, Amare doesn't match up well against Shaq, Dirk, or Duncan that well but they do just fine. It'd be well worth the sacrifice I just don't think we should act as though there won't be any drop off switching from a legendary defensive center to a new wave five which is really means an athletic four with some length. Considering that Lu is our biggest player on the floor at times we'd survive, there'd just be a few rough days every once and a while.

I'm as big a fan of Tyrus' shot blocking as anyone but Yao has 10 inches and 95 pounds on him. That's not a matchup we want any part of. It's not as though there aren't athletic big men who can block shots in the West and yet Yao is still averaging 25 PPG. He's a dominant force on offense and a lot of that is due to his size.


----------



## The ROY

2nd round board :

1. Marc Gasol
2. Herbert Hill

^^ if we keep the 2nd rounders, ONE of these two will be a bull

3. Aaron Afflalo (could be a good back-up sg if we thabo becomes more of a back-up ballhandler and we wanna go big with our guards. I think he'll wind up a late 1st though)
4. Taurean Green (could be nice insurance in-case we move duhon, he'd be a sick 4th guard running the point)
5. Sean Williams (head case though, it seems)


----------



## theanimal23

I can see Pax trying to use both 2nd rounders to move up to an EARLY 2nd round pick. Say Seattle's pick, or just after it. You can get a 1st round talent possibly at a non-guaranteed contract.

Herbert Hill I like. Gasol isn't a bad option too. How is Kyle Visser?


----------



## SALO

theanimal23 said:


> I can see Pax trying to use both 2nd rounders to move up to an EARLY 2nd round pick. Say Seattle's pick, or just after it. You can get a 1st round talent possibly at a non-guaranteed contract.


This is what I'm hoping for. I'd also like if we could obtain a pick in the 20's using cash plus the rights to Mario Austin. Teams would only take Austin so it won't look like they're dumping their pick solely for cash. Phoenix would be our best bet.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

JeremyB0001 said:


> Yeah but we still play each Western Conference team several times a season and there's no telling that rookies or veterans won't wind up in the East. It's an issue that would affect the team sporadically as opposed to rarely. I think we'd take our lumps every once and a while, they'd just be worth taking to have an athletic, running team. Look at Phoenix, Amare doesn't match up well against Shaq, Dirk, or Duncan that well but they do just fine. It'd be well worth the sacrifice I just don't think we should act as though there won't be any drop off switching from a legendary defensive center to a new wave five which is really means an athletic four with some length. Considering that Lu is our biggest player on the floor at times we'd survive, there'd just be a few rough days every once and a while.
> 
> I'm as big a fan of Tyrus' shot blocking as anyone but Yao has 10 inches and 95 pounds on him. That's not a matchup we want any part of. It's not as though there aren't athletic big men who can block shots in the West and yet Yao is still averaging 25 PPG. He's a dominant force on offense and a lot of that is due to his size.


A lot of it really depends on if Brandan could put on the weight. If he could put on the weight, the combination of our team being good defensively would get the job done I think. If he's able to bulk up, and still keep his athleticism he'd probably fare better against big centers than Wallace does because he has so much more length. Even if he isn't as good on D, he'll be a lot better on O, so that's a trade-off I wouldn't mind. Hawes isn't as good defensively, and nowhere near as athletic, so I don't think that he'd be any better on D than Brandan, even though he's more of a traditional center. Oden is really the only guy in the draft that would be a real impact center I think (on both ends of the court) against the dominant centers in the league.


----------



## The ROY

theanimal23 said:


> I can see Pax trying to use both 2nd rounders to move up to an EARLY 2nd round pick. Say Seattle's pick, or just after it. You can get a 1st round talent possibly at a non-guaranteed contract.
> 
> Herbert Hill I like. Gasol isn't a bad option too. How is Kyle Visser?


I don't know much about Kyle...

but if we came outta this draft with Hawes, Hibbert, Noah or Wright + Gasol or Hill...I'd be pretty damn excited about the future of our frontline. I think the best way to build our frontcourt is through THIS draft.


----------



## Wishbone

The ROY said:


> I don't know much about Kyle...
> 
> but if we came outta this draft with Hawes, Hibbert, Noah or Wright + Gasol or Hill...I'd be pretty damn excited about the future of our frontline. I think the best way to build our frontcourt is through THIS draft.



oh boy, here we go again. I remember reading the same kind of threads before last draft. there was a lot of rampant speculation that last year's draft was the Bulls only chance to get quality athletic big men, and there were scenarios painted everywhere about the Bulls making deals in order to draft Tyrus AND Sene or Patrick O'Bryant
or LaMarucs AND Hilton Armstrong AND Josh Boone

but who am I to criticize... this kind of speculation CAN be kinda fun.

Besides - this time I happen to agree that this WILL be the Bulls last chance to draft anyone with a lottery pick for some years to come. Which is actually a damn good thing. playoff games are far more fun than draft speculation.


----------



## theanimal23

Correction Wishbone: Playoffs games are fun if you are team can actually go somewhere or your team hasn't made it in years.

If I was a Nets fan, the playoffs would suck. You know you are not getting to the finals anytime in the near future. Same for the Lakers.

Regardin the draft, it is fun speculating. I don't care if our 2nd rounders never pan out, as long as that NYK pick does. But I think the second round is where you can gamble for that hidden gem.


----------



## Wishbone

theanimal23 said:


> Correction Wishbone: Playoffs games are fun if you are team can actually go somewhere or your team hasn't made it in years.
> 
> If I was a Nets fan, the playoffs would suck. You know you are not getting to the finals anytime in the near future. Same for the Lakers.
> 
> Regardin the draft, it is fun speculating. I don't care if our 2nd rounders never pan out, as long as that NYK pick does. But I think the second round is where you can gamble for that hidden gem.


:laugh: 

your right for the most part. I still thought last year's series against the Heat was a lot of fun. frustrating fun. but fun.
I mean yes from the Wizards or Nets or Lakers point of view, the playoff games might seem like a pointless exercise... but I remember thinking last year that if the Bulls could somehow take one game in Miami (almost did, twice) and hold serve at home, that they'd make it clear to the ECF - where they could have really competed with Detroit. In other words - it seemed like the team could have gone somewhere, if they just made it out of the first round. so, that IS fun no matter how you take it.


I thinks all us Bulls fans will be severely disappointed if they don't get a difference-making player with the Knicks draft pick this summer. 
The good news is it doesn't seem like there's many players with high-bust potential in the first 8 picks or so. 
I think that Noah and Yi are the most boom-or-bust types in the early going. Brandon Wright also falls in that category, but seems less likely to be a bust.
Meanwhile- Oden, Durant, Horford, Brewer and Green all look to at the very least be above average starters in the NBA, if not consistent All-stars.


haven't really looked deep enough into the draft to see who the 2nd rounders could be. I'd be happy if Pax picked up a big and a combo guard who might be able to contribute in a couple of years, but let's face it - the Bulls are not at all lacking for depth at this point. It probably wouldn't be too hard to upgrade over Malik, Sweets or Barrett - but it's not neccesary to do so either.

If trading away both 2nd rounders, the Knicks pick (assuming it's #6 or 7), Next year's first and someone like Duhon or PJ or Sweetney lands us a pick in the top 3 this year, I'd do it in a heartbeat.


----------



## Nu_Omega

theanimal23 said:


> I can see Pax trying to use both 2nd rounders to move up to an EARLY 2nd round pick. Say Seattle's pick, or just after it. You can get a 1st round talent possibly at a non-guaranteed contract.
> 
> Herbert Hill I like. Gasol isn't a bad option too. How is Kyle Visser?



Seems like both Herbert and Kyle have been given props for developing their game, think either one would be a good back up for the front court. How about trading the picks for N. Collison? But that may be too much of a price to pay.

PG: Kirk/Duhon
SG: Gordon/Thabo
SF: Deng/Noce
PF: Tryus/Collison
C: Wallace/Hawes or Horford

Fantasy?


----------



## McBulls

Wishbone said:


> haven't really looked deep enough into the draft to see who the 2nd rounders could be. I'd be happy if Pax picked up a big and a combo guard who might be able to contribute in a couple of years, but let's face it - the Bulls are not at all lacking for depth at this point. It probably wouldn't be too hard to upgrade over Malik, Sweets or Barrett - but it's not neccesary to do so either.
> 
> If trading away both 2nd rounders, the Knicks pick (assuming it's #6 or 7), Next year's first and someone like Duhon or PJ or Sweetney lands us a pick in the top 3 this year, I'd do it in a heartbeat.


The Bulls will probably let Marty, Sweets and PJ go this summer, which means they have 3 open spots on the roster. The two second round picks could compete with NBDL refugees and other free agents for the final two spots, but I like the idea of using them to trade up in this draft.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHjRxsM6pdQ&mode=related&search=

I don't know if this particular clip has been posted yet. There are some good clips of Spencer Hawes starting at about 4:55.


----------



## Wishbone

McBulls said:


> The Bulls will probably let Marty, Sweets and PJ go this summer, which means they have 3 open spots on the roster. The two second round picks could compete with NBDL refugees and other free agents for the final two spots, but I like the idea of using them to trade up in this draft.


I think Pax will bring back PJ for another year, if he's not ready to retire. (a championship - or how close the bulls get to one would make the difference) 
Sweets probably walks... out of the NBA and into the NBDL (National Baked-goods Devouring League)
I can also see Marty hanging around for another year just to see if he can play. That really only leaves one open roster spot for whoever the lottery pick is.
If there are any openings besides that, maybe Mario Austin finally gets a shot...


----------



## JeremyB0001

McBulls said:


> The Bulls will probably let Marty, Sweets and PJ go this summer, which means they have 3 open spots on the roster. The two second round picks could compete with NBDL refugees and other free agents for the final two spots, but I like the idea of using them to trade up in this draft.


No! Marty needs to be a Bull for life. I won't stand for anything less. Sweets, Malik, and P.J. can all go as long as Marty stays.


----------



## BenDengGo

when will the lottery take place which will tell us, at which position the bulls will draft?

i guess after the finals?


----------



## theanimal23

I see PJ stay for the Vet Min unless he gets a slightly better offer from a team such as Dallas.


----------



## theanimal23

BenDengGo said:


> when will the lottery take place which will tell us, at which position the bulls will draft?
> 
> i guess after the finals?


May 22nd. We'll have a better idea after tonight (a general range) of where our pick will likely be.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

theanimal23 said:


> I see PJ stay for the Vet Min unless he gets a slightly better offer from a team such as Dallas.


PJ says he wants to for a team that can give him a no-trade clause, and the Bulls can't even technically do that. A team has to have had you under contract for three years in order to offer you a no-trade clause, so I believe New Jersey, Miami, and New Orleans can offer him such a deal. 

However, PJ resigned with us, for a lower price contract, he wouldn't be as valuable of a trade chip. A three million dollar contract is just not as useful as an eight million dollar one when making salaries match.


----------



## Wynn

Darius Miles Davis said:


> PJ says he wants to for a team that can give him a no-trade clause, and the Bulls can't even technically do that. A team has to have had you under contract for three years in order to offer you a no-trade clause, so I believe New Jersey, Miami, and New Orleans can offer him such a deal.


You and I are understanding the 3 year contract differently. The way I understand it, we would be the ONLY team who could offer the clause. When we traded for PJ, we bought all rights included in the contract. As far as the League is concerned, PJ was a Bull for the entire current contract.


----------



## theanimal23

Screw the pick. For now I'm considering it the 10th pick and worse (a team behind us jumps into the lotto). Eddy Curry of all freakin people cost us two games.


----------



## giusd

[edit] Man what a bad night. We go form 5th to 7th to 8, 9, or 10. Ooch. And we lose at NJ and instead of NJ and Toronto in the first two rounds we get Mia and if we win we get DET. fing a.

reallh bad night.

david


----------



## theanimal23

Well put David. Digusting night. They sucked the life out of me. Knicks and Bulls.


----------



## kukoc4ever

Curry had 0 assists and 6 turnovers tonight.


----------



## darlets

theanimal23 said:


> Screw the pick. For now I'm considering it the 10th pick and worse (a team behind us jumps into the lotto). Eddy Curry of all freakin people cost us two games.


[email protected]#$. Yeah, tis all sucking right now.

So we're in a three way tie for 7th (Am I reading that right)

So 7th-9th if no one moves up above us.

Hmmmmmmm, 8th or higher would be good. I'm not convinced about the 9th pick, if a big will still be around.


----------



## JeremyB0001

theanimal23 said:


> Screw the pick. For now I'm considering it the 10th pick and worse (a team behind us jumps into the lotto). Eddy Curry of all freakin people cost us two games.


We went from 6-8 to 9-11 tonight, a potential fall of 5 spots. If we fall that far I'm not sure Thabo and a future first rounder could make up the ground we lost so it's certainly horrific. We really need to cross our fingers with the tie braker. The difference between 9 and 11 could have a massive impact on the future of this franchise. Sadly, I'm worried that the damage might already be done. We likely went from an outside shot at Wright or Horford with Hawes as our worst case scenario to in my opinion, a far lesser player in Hibbert. If you ask me, the biggest problem with the lottery is that only the teams that draw the top three picks have an incentive not to tank.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

JeremyB0001 said:


> We went from 6-8 to 9-11 tonight, a potential fall of 5 spots. If we fall that far I'm not sure Thabo and a future first rounder could make up the ground we lost so it's certainly horrific. We really need to cross our fingers with the tie braker. The difference between 9 and 11 could have a massive impact on the future of this franchise. Sadly, I'm worried that the damage might already be done. We likely went from an outside shot at Wright or Horford with Hawes as our worst case scenario to in my opinion, a far lesser player in Hibbert. If you ask me, the biggest problem with the lottery is that only the teams that draw the top three picks have an incentive not to tank.


Actually, we went from 6-8 to 8-10, so unless somebody below us with incredibly low odds jumps up and wins a top 3 lotto pick, we'll be in the top 10. I'd be pretty satisfied with a #9 pick. I'm still hoping my guy Spencer Hawes will be available when we're picking, though he may not be. He's a hometown boy in Seattle, who has lots of young centers, but none of them are good yet. Sacramento may pick in front of us. They may need a center as well, as Brad Miller's game took a major step back this year.

Damn you, Eddy. Damn you. The irony is so think that I can't even stand it. Eddy Curry's late game heroics of the past two weeks are the only things between us and a likely #6 pick in this draft.


----------



## TripleDouble

Can the Bulls trade next years pick? If so, I don't think Paxson would hesitate to use it to move up and grab what he sees as the final piece of the puzzle.


----------



## fl_flash

does anybody have any information as to when the tie-breakers will be annouced? I know we split the lottery combinations with Charlotte and Sacramento for purposes of a top-3 drawing, but in the event that none of the 8-10 teams win the lottery - will the Bulls pick 8th, 9th or 10th? Pretty big difference between 8 and 10 in this draft. You'd think Charlotte would go with a wing player. Sacramento needs a bit of everything. After last nights' crappy game and every team that we needed to win lost - it'd at least be nice to get the 8th slot!


----------



## The ROY

8th, 9th or 10th, wow.

It's still okay though, we should wind up getting atleast ONE player Paxson is after. I can't see the entire top 10 taking big guys just BECAUSE their big's. Brewer, Batum & Green could raise their stock even further with good workouts. Some have even said that Batum is better than Brewer which could push him even HIGHER in the draft.

Noah, Hawes, Hibbert, Jianlian or Splitter. We will LAND one of them.


----------



## JeremyB0001

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Actually, we went from 6-8 to 8-10, so unless somebody below us with incredibly low odds jumps up and wins a top 3 lotto pick, we'll be in the top 10. I'd be pretty satisfied with a #9 pick. I'm still hoping my guy Spencer Hawes will be available when we're picking, though he may not be.


My mistake, I should have realized that if the Knicks won there'd only be two teams with 32 wins and not three. I don't think Hawes or maybe even Hibbert will be around at 10.


----------



## theanimal23

This draft is crap if we don't have Hawes slipping to us. Hibbert does nothing for me. He is going to be one of those stiffs who is strictly and NBA journeyman.

Pax, you better find a way to move up.


----------



## ScottMay

fl_flash said:


> does anybody have any information as to when the tie-breakers will be annouced? I know we split the lottery combinations with Charlotte and Sacramento for purposes of a top-3 drawing, but in the event that none of the 8-10 teams win the lottery - will the Bulls pick 8th, 9th or 10th? Pretty big difference between 8 and 10 in this draft. You'd think Charlotte would go with a wing player. Sacramento needs a bit of everything. After last nights' crappy game and every team that we needed to win lost - it'd at least be nice to get the 8th slot!


Last year that drawing was held right at the start of the playoffs:

http://www.nba.com/news/lotteryties_060421.html

Seems like there'll need to be two coin flips for this three-way tie. Two of the teams will get an extra combination (19 + 19 + 18), and then they'll need to flip to see which of those two teams gets the #8 pick.

As much as it pains me to say it, I think that if the Bulls don't move up, they have to go the "BPA" route. If that happens to be a big, great, but 8-10 has historically been a Bermuda Triangle for big men.


----------



## theanimal23

I read somewhere, I can't remember where, but the coin toss is indeed before the playoffs. Might be tomorrow. 

****Fingers crossed for the 8th pick****


----------



## theanimal23

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/askthewriter/cs-070418asksamsmith,1,1746735.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines



> *Watch NBA-TV this Friday. *After the end of the regular season, the NBA has drawings to break ties for the draft, for lottery and non-lottery teams. Basically, they put ping pong balls in a hat--technically a half basketball. I'm not sure if it is synthetic or not and whether there could be a paper cut issue. Say two teams have 50 wins, balls with their logos on it go in the bowl to be picked out to decide who gets the higher pick, for example, 19 or 20. Bulls fans are concerned with the lottery teams all hanging around 32 wins with the Knicks. It's the same system, but with the lottery teams it goes by number of ping pong ball chances. Say two teams have the same record and that position has 151 chances. If two teams are tied with the same record, they divide the number of balls and the team that "wins" the drawing gets the extra ball, meaning if there were 150 balls or chances at that spot, one would get 76 and the other 75. Got any of that? The short answer is for lottery teams with the same record there is almost no difference in their chances in the lottery with 1,001 combinations. Yes, better to just wait for the results in May.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

theanimal23 said:


> http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/askthewriter/cs-070418asksamsmith,1,1746735.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines


Hmm, does anyone know when this drawing will occur tomorrow? I can't find it on the nba.com website. What I care most about is that we pick before Sacramento. I think Charlotte desperately needs a better big guard, and if I were them, I'd take a good look at Corey Brewer and Nick Young. Sacramento, however, might be more inclined to go with a center. They could steal the player we want if they pick before us. Let's hope luck shines upon us.


----------



## theanimal23

Didn't feel like starting a thread for this but a random trade idea:
We need to add depth at the 4 and 5. I figure we will get one of Hawes or Hibbert (I really hope it's Hawes). Usually middle of the 1st round big men don't pan out. Same for 2nd rounders. But does Pax use our 2008 1st and 2nd rounders to get a Mid-1st round pick to grab Splitter? Would he trade our next year's pick for a big men such as Nazr?

If we can come out of this draft with two big men, such as Hawes and Splitter/Gasol, then we add a lot of height, depth, and youth. I think it is critical we grab two guys, one of who is defensive oriented and another who is adept at offense.

PJ might stick around next year, but I can see him heading to Miami or NOK. I'd like to have PJ back as a bench player.


----------



## Simpleton

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Hmm, does anyone know when this drawing will occur tomorrow? I can't find it on the nba.com website. What I care most about is that we pick before Sacramento. I think Charlotte desperately needs a better big guard, and if I were them, I'd take a good look at Corey Brewer and Nick Young. Sacramento, however, might be more inclined to go with a center. They could steal the player we want if they pick before us. Let's hope luck shines upon us.


May 22 I believe.


----------



## The ROY

I can't see Hawes falling to us in the 8-10 range, especially after workouts, where I think he'll raise his stock back up to top 6.

If we walk out of this draft with Tiago Splitter @ 10 & traded our two 2nd's to move up and land Marc Gasol, I'd be very happy with our future still.

here's to HOPING for the 8th pick


----------



## chifaninca

The ROY said:


> I can't see Hawes falling to us in the 8-10 range, especially after workouts, where I think he'll raise his stock back up to top 6.
> 
> If we walk out of this draft with Tiago Splitter @ 10 & traded our two 2nd's to move up and land Marc Gasol, I'd be very happy with our future still.
> 
> here's to HOPING for the 8th pick



Roy, I agree. I think when Hawes shows up after having concentrated on workouts, he's gonna impress plenty.


At 10, I can us having to choose between YiJi, Splitter and ugggh, McRoberts.

I too, hope for a trade up and Gasol or Herbert Hill would be choices (unless McRoberts really took a free fall). Wild card with the late first would be Ante Tomic if he stays in.


----------



## JeremyB0001

If Wright enters there are 5 oustanding big men plus Durrant (and then there's Hibbert too) so if we do land at #8 I think at least one non-big man (Conley, Green, Brewer, Wright) will crack that top 7 and Hawes or another of the heralded big men will fall to us. If we fall to 10, that's a different story...


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

JeremyB0001 said:


> If Wright enters there are 5 oustanding big men plus Durrant (and then there's Hibbert too) so if we do land at #8 I think at least one non-big man (Conley, Green, Brewer, Wright) will crack that top 7 and Hawes or another of the heralded big men will fall to us. If we fall to 10, that's a different story...


We've just gotta be lucky and have a good flip of the coin that gets us a pick before Sacto, whether it's #8 or #9. The Kings will probably be interested in a center as well.

Damn you, Eddy Curry. DAMN YOU!


----------



## fl_flash

I couldn't find the time or the tiebreaking "drawing" either. Unless it's during one of the eastern or western conference preview shows, NBA TV doesn't identify when the tiebreakers will be done. I just want to know where the Bulls are going to wind up so that the rampant speculation can begin!

I'm OK with Hibert or Hawes or even Splitter in that 8-10 range. As chifaninca pointed out, Ante Tomic would be an excellent late-first or early-second round pick.


----------



## Swan

Bulls get slotted into the #9 spot after today's tiebreak.


----------



## superdave

80% chance at 9 slot... so.....

*Bigs: *Oden, Durant, Wright?, Horford, Yi, Hibbert?, Noah, Hawes
That's eight bigs right off the board, I know Hibbert has declared and let's hope he stays in. Has B.Wright declared yet? You would think that the top non-bigs... Julian Wright, Brewer, and/or Green could slip into the top 8. So there will definitely be a solid big man at the number 9 slot.

Not bad, depending how things shake out.


----------



## SALO

$3M cash would most likely move us up at least one spot, see Crawford/Mihm and Roy/Foye deals.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

superdave said:


> 80% chance at 9 slot... so.....
> 
> *Bigs: *Oden, Durant, Wright?, Horford, Yi, Hibbert?, Noah, Hawes
> That's eight bigs right off the board, I know Hibbert has declared and let's hope he stays in. Has B.Wright declared yet? You would think that the top non-bigs... Julian Wright, Brewer, and/or Green could slip into the top 8. So there will definitely be a solid big man at the number 9 slot.
> 
> Not bad, depending how things shake out.


Only players of that group I'd want would be Oden, Durant, Brandan Wright, Hawes, and then I'd take, but not really be thrilled with Horford, Noah and Hibbert. So that's 7 guys that would probably help out a lot.


----------



## chifaninca

DaBabyBullz said:


> Only players of that group I'd want would be Oden, Durant, Brandan Wright, Hawes, and then I'd take, but not really be thrilled with Horford, Noah and Hibbert. So that's 7 guys that would probably help out a lot.



We still have May 22 to look forward to. Hopefully it will be during halftiem of a Bulls playoff game.

THat being said:

At 9, if we hold at 9, I can see one of YiJi or Splitter being available.


----------



## theanimal23

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxHjuRoTLxA

Seems kind of athletic. I wonder how he fairs versus NBA level athletes.


----------



## ScottMay

theanimal23 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxHjuRoTLxA
> 
> Seems kind of athletic. I wonder how he fairs versus NBA level athletes.


How dare you question the athleticism of a man whose YouTube highlight reel uses "Rumpshaker" as a soundtrack?


----------



## DaBabyBullz

chifaninca said:


> We still have May 22 to look forward to. Hopefully it will be during halftiem of a Bulls playoff game.
> 
> THat being said:
> 
> At 9, if we hold at 9, I can see one of YiJi or Splitter being available.


What's happening May 22nd? I must be missing something, or is that when the lottery is drawn? 

I think our chances of a #1 is like 2.8 or 3.8%, and total chance at a top 3 is like 8.8% or something. I looked it up a few days ago and can't recall for sure. I'm not holding my breath. I'm hoping we move up, and also hoping no one jumps in front of us bumping us further back either.


----------



## theanimal23

Lottery May 22nd


----------



## DaBabyBullz

Ok thanks animal


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

...


----------



## giusd

Some one else posted this and i agree we need to look and see who is ahead of us and are they teams that need a big man, a SF, or a guard. Bos, Memphis, Philly, and Minny need big men but Portland and Mil need a SF and Sea and Alt need point guards. And i dont really know what Cha would be looking for i guess a center but who knows. My point is Players like Brewer and Julian Wright will likely go in the top eight to a team that needs a Swing man and Conley who i think will be a star could easily end up at Sea or Alt. So i guess what i am saying is if you move Julian Wright, Conley, and Brewer (and maybe Green) in the top eight then the the bulls will get the 6th big man.

Oden, Durant, Horford, and B. Wright are the top four bigs. That still leaves Noel, Hibbert, Jianlian, and Hawes. Since this is such a strong draft with a lot of good bigs i think we will still be a starting center at the 9th pick and one of Jainlian, Noel, Hibbert, and Hawes will be there and maybe two or three. I think the bulls will target Hibbert or Hawes.

david


----------



## JeremyB0001

SALO said:


> $3M cash would most likely move us up at least one spot, see Crawford/Mihm and Roy/Foye deals.


I think that only happens in the rare instance where a team knows they'll end up with the same player whether they sit tight or trade down. Think about it, if you know you're going to draft the same player at #9 as at #6, why not create some additional cap room/luxury tax flexibility if you don't have to give up anything but some cash.


----------



## The ROY

giusd said:


> Some one else posted this and i agree we need to look and see who is ahead of us and are they teams that need a big man, a SF, or a guard.


I don't think that'll work seeing as how SOME of these teams will be looking to move up or down and would be picking for other teams.


We may have to wait until workouts and OFFICIAL mocks come out.


----------



## Da Grinch

I think Pax is going to have to get a big who can play under skiles .

skiles tends to favor high energy bigs and pretty much wants his perimeter players handling the ball and uses bigs primarily as finishers , its just what he's comfortable in doing...Hawes seems like a big that will need his post ups , and so does hibbert to get the most out of them.

Yi, splitter and Noah to me seem to be the guys most likely to fit in out of the guys likely to be available.


----------



## LegoHat

According to Draftexpress, Brandan Wright will be declaring for the draft on Monday. Good news for our pick. 



> North Carolina freshman Brandan Wright will be announcing his intentions to enter the NBA draft on Monday, multiple sources told DraftExpress Saturday evening.
> 
> Wright had been going back and forth on whether to declare or not for the past few weeks, but finally decided to put his name in the draft after meeting with Roy Williams this weekend and being urged by the North Carolina head coach himself to not pass up the opportunity of being a top 5 pick.
> 
> Wright’s next move will be to hire an agent.


----------



## SALO

If Phoenix doesn't take him then Noah will be there at #9. I don't see him wowing anybody during workouts because his impact is greater in a 5 on 5 setting and not the 2 on 2 or 3 on 3 games, which is how most workouts are setup.

I could also see some of his interviews rubbing people the wrong way. He acted like he didn't need the NBA a year ago (which is partially true, since his family has enough money) when he said in an interview that the "NBA game is boring." He attended a game and got up and left early because he thought the college game was more exciting. 

Noah won't give us that low-post scorer but I still feel like he would fit in great here. I was one of the few who believed Wallace/Chandler could work but I guess we'll never know because of the financial concerns. Noah will come on a rookie contract and with 3 years of college experience, two of which were national championship runs.


----------



## JeremyB0001

Da Grinch said:


> skiles tends to favor high energy bigs and pretty much wants his perimeter players handling the ball and uses bigs primarily as finishers , its just what he's comfortable in doing...Hawes seems like a big that will need his post ups , and so does hibbert to get the most out of them.
> 
> Yi, splitter and Noah to me seem to be the guys most likely to fit in out of the guys likely to be available.


Pax says we need a post scorer and while he takes input from Skiles he supposedly went with Tyrus when Skiles preferred Aldridge last season. If Skiles doesn't want a traditional post scorer, he just might be out of luck.


----------



## giusd

I really think that Brewer, Conley, and julian Wright will go in the top eight. And maybe ever jeff Green. If that is the case then on of Hawes or Hibbert will fall to us at 9. Oden, Durant, Horford, Noel, and Bradon Wright are the top big men and will go before Bibbert and Hawes so really i guess i am saying both will be there at 9.

Also, Minny might be willing to swap positions with us if we could throw in a big man like Viktor Khryapa who would be a huge up grade for them but i think would not get that much PT with TT, Big Ben, and Hibbert or Hawes up front. And even less time since i think noci will play more PF next year so Viktor Khryapa is really not neccessary and might be enough to move up.

david


----------



## charlietyra

giusd said:


> I really think that Brewer, Conley, and julian Wright will go in the top eight. And maybe ever jeff Green. If that is the case then on of Hawes or Hibbert will fall to us at 9. Oden, Durant, Horford, Noel, and Bradon Wright are the top big men and will go before Bibbert and Hawes so really i guess i am saying both will be there at 9.
> 
> Also, Minny might be willing to swap positions with us if we could throw in a big man like Viktor Khryapa who would be a huge up grade for them but i think would not get that much PT with TT, Big Ben, and Hibbert or Hawes up front. And even less time since i think noci will play more PF next year so Viktor Khryapa is really not neccessary and might be enough to move up.
> 
> david


Viktor Khyrapa a "huge upgrade?" Perhaps over my 10 year old nephew. 
Don't hold your breath on Minny begging to swap picks at the prospect of getting Viktor.


----------



## Priest

hawes???


----------



## Showtyme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tleJXe8fMy4

yi jianlian, nike commercial


----------



## yodurk

I'm not a big fan of Joakim Noah, but even I can admit that he'd be a huge bargain with the 9th pick. With that said, he doesn't bring anything new to our team and I'd rather take Hibbert or Hawes. 

Speaking of Roy Hibbert, I really can't decide what his NBA career will pan out like. The guy has a huge body; he's smart, coachable, a team player, hard worker, and can even hit the 15-footer. But he just reminds me so much of Brendan Haywood in college, I have a hard time deciding his potential. Would he be anything more than average? At least with Hawes, we get a guy who had a pretty good freshman season and still has room to improve.


----------



## The ROY

Bottom line, we need a C that can 'go to work' in the low post. Not a Doleac-like spot up shooter or a player that scores here and there like P.J., but a guy that TRUELY can take the pressure and scoring burden off of our guards.

Some are saying the player also needs to be already 'above-average' defensively, I disagree. I think the player drafted needs to have the ability to become BETTER defensively but with that pick, I don't think the player needs to have that aspect of his game SET just yet. Must we forget that we have Ben Wallace for 3 more years? Which also means we have 3 years to find great defenders to back-up the player that we pick in the draft. Not only that but TT will be HUGE protection for whomever plays that postition, maybe he won't take the pressure off by GUARDING the opposing C but he'll definintely help tremendously on the weakside.

Go with the STRONGEST scoring option availible @ that position, bottom line. Worry about the rest.............LATER

My Pick (if availible) = Mr. Hawes


----------



## laso

OK, so if we stay at 9, the choices are likely going to be between the following:

- Yi
- Noah
- Hawes
- Hibbert
- Splitter

I think I'd be comfortable with any of them. They all bring something different to the table and all have some risk associated with them.

Yi: Pros=high skill level, high athleticism. Seems like he would fit well with the athletic group in place. Risk = not a real interior, soft on defense.

Noah: Pros=great defense. Noah and Thomas give us shotblocking from hell. He runs the floor super well. Risk= another center who has no offense. If we got rid of Tyson for nothing, why would we bring Noah?

Hawes: Pros=finally a real center that can put the ball in the hoop. The upside is a better version of Brad Miller (I would love to have kept Brad Miller...) Risk=Lack of defense, too unathletic for the pros.

Hibbert: Pros=great size skills combination. If he can improve his conditioning and footwork, he could really bother teams night after night and give us a big body for nights when we have to play a big guy. Risk=Not athletic enough for the NBA. Is his conditioning going to worsen and is he going to get fat?


----------



## chifaninca

Can I ask a question about the unathletic to those so concerned about it:


Ben Wallace is Athletic and gives us very little on offense when we are running. Why are we so hung up on that? I'm not expecting any of them to get out and run with TT, Deng, Gordon and Hinrich. If we get bogged down, then settle into a half ocurt offense, Wallace gives us even less.


On defense, Wallace is athletic as heck, but gets pushed around by bigger men. So wouldn't a bigger guy benefit us down low? Benefit us in the half court offense compared to Ben "don't throw me the ball" Wallace? 

Finally, we have Wallace for three more years. We can use wallace in an athletic line-up and use our new big in the half court post up games.

I agree, I would be fine with any of Yi, Hawes, Hibbert, Splitter and Noah.


----------



## JeremyB0001

chifaninca said:


> Can I ask a question about the unathletic to those so concerned about it:
> 
> 
> Ben Wallace is Athletic and gives us very little on offense when we are running. Why are we so hung up on that? I'm not expecting any of them to get out and run with TT, Deng, Gordon and Hinrich. If we get bogged down, then settle into a half ocurt offense, Wallace gives us even less.


I don't think it's a must but if we can draft a player who will be able to run with our team without getting fatigued, that's definitely a plus. We're a pretty good fast break team so if we change our style to play a lot more half course offense, our offense might or might not suffer. A team like Dallas slowed down their game and became even better while it's hard to imagine a team like Phoenix succeeding if they started playing a lot slower.


----------



## chifaninca

Very good examples Jeremy.


My point was that Ben Wallace isn't the finisher on fast breaks, he's usually the initiator. He's often the last guy down the court and often the last guy you want holding the ball.

I think things are looking up with a average to better than aberage big man who can score.


----------



## yodurk

chifaninca said:


> Can I ask a question about the unathletic to those so concerned about it:
> 
> Ben Wallace is Athletic and gives us very little on offense when we are running. Why are we so hung up on that? I'm not expecting any of them to get out and run with TT, Deng, Gordon and Hinrich. If we get bogged down, then settle into a half ocurt offense, Wallace gives us even less.


I disagree. Wallace is super quick for a center on both ends (as you say), but he definitely uses it to his advantage offensively. How many times do we toss him the ball, and then he makes a nice dribble and pass move to help us score? Wallace's big advantage is that the ball is safe in his hands, even if he can't put the ball in the hole. For a guy who plays center, his versatility is really amazing (shooting woes aside).



> On defense, Wallace is athletic as heck, but gets pushed around by bigger men. So wouldn't a bigger guy benefit us down low? Benefit us in the half court offense compared to Ben "don't throw me the ball" Wallace?


He doesn't get pushed around any more than most centers around the league. The guy could squat a truck if he wanted to. And like I said, he does nice things with the ball other than scoring. 



> Finally, we have Wallace for three more years. We can use wallace in an athletic line-up and use our new big in the half court post up games.
> 
> I agree, I would be fine with any of Yi, Hawes, Hibbert, Splitter and Noah.


Right on. I'm just concerned about Hibbert. I think Hibbert has far more bust potential than Hawes just because he's so big (and might gain weight if he's not careful); the NBA is a quick man's game, especially in the current day and age. Hibbert's size might really hold him back.


----------



## theanimal23

I'm liking Yi more and more. I know it'd be nice to have a post-scorer, but
1. I really think Tyrus will become that
2. Deng will add that to his game
3. Yi adjusts very well to our system. He is tall. He can shoot. He actually drives to the hoop. Our pick n'roll, as demonstated with Gordon-Noce running in the playoffs shows how difficult it is to guard.
4. Imagine running this lineup at times Yi-Tyrus-Deng-Gordon-Kirk. Even sub out Tyrus for Noce. We got a team that spaces it very well. Yi would neutralize any center by being more athletic. I really think the NBA is headed in a new direction. To matchup against guys like Oden, we just need to add Big Scrubs. 

I'm really liking the Skill level Yi brings. We can still run the hell out of teams. I truly think Tyrus will work on his game enough that in two years, he'll be big and good enough to handle the post. The kid has a killer instict to his game.


----------



## giusd

I think Pax will target Hibbert with the 9th pick. I still say Julian Wight, Jeff Green, Brewer, and Conley go in the top 8. So four big men must get picked before the bulls pick. Oden, Durant, Breden Wright, and Horford. Even if five big me go before the bulls pick that last big men is likely going to be Yi. So Hibbert and Hawes are still there at nine. But Hibbert has worked really hard in college and move his game foward. He is hugh and has a big reach and will be a super defender along with Big Ben and then when TT takes over the PF spot in a couple of years. Hibbert and TT would be a dominating defensive back court. And while Hibbert is kind of mechanical he has a soft touch and soft hands and i think will be a very solid finisher on offensive but not likely to draw many double teams.

david


----------



## The ROY

I'd put MONEY on it that Paxson would take Hawes over Hibbert (if availible).


----------



## darlets

giusd said:


> I think Pax will target Hibbert with the 9th pick. I still say Julian Wight, Jeff Green, Brewer, and Conley go in the top 8. So four big men must get picked before the bulls pick. Oden, Durant, Breden Wright, and Horford. Even if five big me go before the bulls pick that last big men is likely going to be Yi. So Hibbert and Hawes are still there at nine. But Hibbert has worked really hard in college and move his game foward. He is hugh and has a big reach and will be a super defender along with Big Ben and then when TT takes over the PF spot in a couple of years. Hibbert and TT would be a dominating defensive back court. And while Hibbert is kind of mechanical he has a soft touch and soft hands and i think will be a very solid finisher on offensive but not likely to draw many double teams.
> 
> david


I agree with this completely. I think we're going to have a decent choice of bigs at the 9th pick and it won't be simple a case of taking who's left. (i.e all the bigs have gone)

See there is going to be one team with Oden and 29 teams in need of someone to guard Oden. Hibbert did a reasonable job of this already. We need a big body to match up on the bigs in the league. I don't think Paxson is going to favour an offensive minded player that much just so we can get a post threat. 

If his still on the board I think Paxson will grab him.


----------



## mgolding

Mock Draft based on most probable of draft positions
1. Memphis - Oden (obviously)
2. Boston - Durant (given oden at 1, even more obviously)
3. Milwaukee - Wright (a nice compliment to Boguts game with athleticism, length and outstanding potential)
4. Phoenix - Horford (I dont think the suns will go for Noah with his lack of offensive game - Horford brings all round big man play at both ends, would add to the suns versatality and he's ready)
5. Seatle - Noah (this team has my early vote for most under preparded management going into the draft, they'll take Noah because they can say, "Hey, everyone else said he was good")
6. Portland - Conley Jr (Cementing their backcourt as one of the best for the next 10 years)
7. Minnesota - Brewer (by keeping KG this team has to go for it and this is the guy who is most ready to come in an help right away)
8. Charlotte - Hawes (to piss me off and because he's 18 year old centre who :- has an array of post moves, can finish with either had, has good handles for his size and good range on his jump shot. His relative defensive shot blocking and rebounding weaknesses should be well covered by playing beside Okafor and Wallace)
9. Chicago - ??????

Hibbert is a half court player. He will fill a big part of the lane but does he suit the way the bulls play? I think he'll be a good NBA player but the bulls may well have to slow it down a little to make the most of the big fella. If the above draft positions were to eventuate i would take him as he is a legitimate centre who lloks like he can still get a lot better.

No matter which way you look at it Jianlian is a big risk. His scouting reports note that he struggles with physical play in China and that doesnt bode well for his ability to ever play the post in the NBA. Im not sure Yi and Tyrus are the frontcourt to take the bulls to the promised land.

Splitter sounds like he will be the solid but unspectacular type. He may well suit the bulls style of play better than either of the Yi or Hibbert though with no where near the potential.

As is obvious by my assessments, Id love Hawes to fall to Chicago. Not because I think he's the next Tim Duncan (because i dont, maybe duncan light) but because he's what we need to improve significantly as a team without taking away from what we already have. I may forever curse the day that charlotte lost to NY on the last day of this past regular season.


----------



## giusd

I know that everyone has Minny taking a SF but i wonder if they might take Conley. They really need a PG and Ricky Davis could play SF and Foye can play SG and they got nothing at PG. And for that matter if maybe conley might even go as high as sea. They to really need a PG. If so then maybe Brewer and Green/Wright could go to Portland and Minny. Either way some big man has to fall to the bulls. 

So

Sea Conley
Portland Brewer
Minny Green / Wright
Cha Who knows but i agree they do need a center
Chi What ever center CHA doesnt take

And i still say that we could trade with Minny for one of our bench big men. I think minny could take the same swing player at 9 that whey would get at 7 since both Chi and Cha will be drafing centers. Victor started for Portland i seemed to play well for the bulls and well Minny is really thin at PF/SF and he would be a solid bench player and might get us infront of CHA.

david


----------



## SPIN DOCTOR

Here is what has me completely cranked up about this years draft, it is sooo deep with big men that regardless of who gets picked in front of us we still end up with one of:
Hibbert
Hawes
Splitter
Noah

We are golden with any one of these guys, although I also prefer Hibbert.

Add to that a deep talented solid core, and we are poised to take the next step. This draft is very different than in years past, where we had needs for big contributions from rookies from year 1. If we can get 15-20 minutes a night of solid play from our pick, we can be really good.


----------



## Nu_Omega

Not sure about Splitter and Noah but we do need someone who's at least offensively capable enough at the low post and to draw a double team to free up even more the "ever springing to the hoop for a dunk" Tyrus.:biggrin: 

It's either Hawes or Hibbert for me although i would prefer the former just because he really has a refined set of post moves. But then again Hibbert did matched up with guys till the final 4.


----------



## rosenthall

I'm not sure what the cost would be, but I'd like to see if we can arrange a trade where we pick a player at #9 and trade it and other items to a team at the top of the draft and get Al Horford. 

He strikes me as a young Horace Grant/Uber AC Green-PJ Brown type, which I think would fit us to a tee. He strikes me as the type of guy that, although never the alpha dog, will always be extremely valuable to whatever team he's on just by virtue of being a competent, well rounded big man who's good/very good at everything a big man needs to do.


----------



## JeremyB0001

Whether you think it's a good or bad thing, I don't think Yi will fall to us:



> Gordon, Cedar Rapids, Iowa: Chad, after the hyped up Oden and Durant...who else (in your opinion) fills out the top 10 players drafted?
> 
> SportsNation Chad Ford: I look at the draft in tiers. Oden and Durant are the top tier. The next tier includes Al Horford, Yi Jianlian, Brandan Wright, and maybe Joakim Noah. Tier 3 includes Corey Brewer, Mike Conley, Julian Wright, Jeff Green and Roy Hibbert and Spencer Hawes. I can't tell you the exact order until we see how the draft lottery plays out ... but that's the rough groupings according to NBA scouts.
> 
> TP (DC): With so many good known players with proveb ability in the draft, do you think Yi Jianlin will slip?
> 
> SportsNation Chad Ford: He won't slip based on talent. What could cause him to slip is uncertainty about his ability to leave China for the NBA. From what NBA teams are telling me, China would like to see him placed in a big market with a significant Chinese population. Most of the teams in the lottery don't qualify. If they threaten to say, refuse to send him to Milwaukee or Charlotte for example, he could slip. But on talent, many NBA scouts have him ranked third behind Oden and Durant.


http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=15517

Sure Hibbert is a better fit in that he's 7'2 and huge, but virtually every team would rather have a hulking 7'2 Ceneter. If that was the primary consideration, Hibbert would be a lock for a top three pick. The reason Oden will likely go first overall and Hibbert is on the lottery bubble despite his comparable size is that there are serious questions about his athleticism and skills. Certainly there are questions about Hawes also, but people are sure Hibbert will _ever_ be a starting center. I think you definitely go with Hawes since neither would be a starter right now and Hawes has the substantially higher ceiling.


----------



## Hustle

> From what NBA teams are telling me, China would like to see him placed in a big market with a significant Chinese population.


Maybe Jianlin will slip to us, could be a deal.


----------



## theanimal23

As long as we don't change our uniforms for him as the Rockets did for Yao. Bulls have one of the best uni's.


----------



## Cyanobacteria

theanimal23 said:


> As long as we don't change our uniforms for him as the Rockets did for Yao. Bulls have one of the best uni's.



Note to China: Bulls unis already red.


----------



## Deng101

Id love to draft Yi, he is kind of a risk in that you dont know how his game will translate.... but I just think Hawes and Hibbert are stiffs and not very good at all.


----------



## theanimal23

Deng101 said:


> Id love to draft Yi, he is kind of a risk in that you dont know how his game will translate.... but I just think Hawes and Hibbert are stiffs and not very good at all.


I am not a fan of anyone in this draft outside of the top two, Horford, and B. Wright.

I feel that Yi is the best guy out of the three you list to take a risk on. He would just cause matchup problems. Sure we won't have a low-post scorer, but I think all of our guys could play down low eventually (Yi, Tyrus, Lu). Plus we would have five guys who could score. What are the chacnes that all 5 guys go cold in a game? This is assuming Tyrus works and gets an offensive game.


----------



## McBulls

As much as everyone wants low post scoring, it's even more important to have a 7 footer to man the middle for the next decade or so. 

7 footers are hard to come by; particularly when draft picks are 20+ as far as the eye can see. This is the last good chance to get a decent center without trading major assets. There are a remarkable number of NBA capable centers in this draft.

So I say no to Holford, even if he were available, which he will not be, and yes to Noah, Splitter, Yi and Hibbert. Looks like at least one of them will be available at the 9th pick.

BTW, it's nice to have a center that can run the floor or shoot hooks in the low post, but it's hardly essential. I'll take a big guy who can rebound, clog the lane, block shots, pass, set picks, and defend opponent mastadons any day. If he's got an low post offensive game or a jump shot, so much the better, but it's not the most important thing for a center to have.


----------



## rwj333

McBulls said:


> As much as everyone wants low post scoring, it's even more important to have a 7 footer to man the middle for the next decade or so.
> 
> 7 footers are hard to come by; particularly when draft picks are 20+ as far as the eye can see. This is the last good chance to get a decent center without trading major assets. There are a remarkable number of NBA capable centers in this draft.
> 
> So I say no to Holford, even if he were available, which he will not be, and yes to Noah, Splitter, Yi and Hibbert. Looks like at least one of them will be available at the 9th pick.
> 
> BTW, it's nice to have a center that can run the floor or shoot hooks in the low post, but it's hardly essential. I'll take a big guy who can rebound, clog the lane, block shots, pass, set picks, and defend opponent mastadons any day. If he's got an low post offensive game or a jump shot, so much the better, but it's not the most important thing for a center to have.


what is your opinion of hawes?


----------



## The ROY

How come you guys don't mind us creating more problems for ourselves down the line?

We need a CENTER, period.

If you wanna try having Yi guard Howard, Stoudamire, Oden, etc., with for the next decade, be my guest.

We need a big MAN, not a tall skinny SF. Now if he turns out to be more TALENTED than those guys, then by all means, TAKE HIM. Otherwise, go after the best big possible and solidfy the future of our frontline.

From what I've seen of YI, he doesn't have Bargnani/Notwitski type of shooting talent...he just happens to like dunking alot. show me something else.


----------



## JeremyB0001

McBulls said:


> As much as everyone wants low post scoring, it's even more important to have a 7 footer to man the middle for the next decade or so.
> 
> 7 footers are hard to come by; particularly when draft picks are 20+ as far as the eye can see. This is the last good chance to get a decent center without trading major assets. There are a remarkable number of NBA capable centers in this draft.





The ROY said:


> How come you guys don't mind us creating more problems for ourselves down the line?
> 
> We need a CENTER, period.


I'm not a strict best player available guy but I think it's clear that even considering how well the Bulls are set up, you can't look at _just_ fit. I think everyone agrees with that to some extent; I haven't heard anyone suggest that we should pass up Durant for a big if we land the #2 pick. It looks as though there will only be three centers (Oden, Hawes, Hibbert) in the lottery, or maybe four if you consider Noah a center. Hawes and Hibbert are currently in the 8-12 range and unlike Brandon Wright are not considered stars, so if the Bulls get lucky and land the #3 pick, I can't see us taking either of them unless we trade down. We would be passing up our need for a 7 foot center but I think we'd be making the right move. Hawes will likely never be an All-Star and Hibbert may not even be a legit starter so if there's a star talent in the board I think you have to take him or make a trade. You don't pass him up. 



McBulls said:


> So I say no to Holford, even if he were available, which he will not be, and yes to Noah, Splitter, Yi and Hibbert. Looks like at least one of them will be available at the 9th pick.


Someone like Horford doesn't fit our need for a 7 footer but he does fill our gaping hole for a back to the basket player, he's NBA ready, and there's a consensus that he's a better prospect than Horford/Hawes so I think he'd also be hard to pass up. I think Yi fills less of a need than Horford. Yes he's taller but I don't think he's ever expected to add enough weight to play the 5 and while Horford has a post game, Yi is more of a face the basket player based on my understanding.



McBulls said:


> BTW, it's nice to have a center that can run the floor or shoot hooks in the low post, but it's hardly essential. I'll take a big guy who can rebound, clog the lane, block shots, pass, set picks, and defend opponent mastadons any day. If he's got an low post offensive game or a jump shot, so much the better, but it's not the most important thing for a center to have.


I'm not sure why a 7 footer is that essential if he doesn't have a back to the basket game. I thought that was the obession with Gasol all along, that we need someone who can draw a double team in the post to get more open looks for our perimeter players.



The ROY said:


> If you wanna try having Yi guard Howard, Stoudamire, Oden, etc., with for the next decade, be my guest.
> 
> We need a big MAN, not a tall skinny SF. Now if he turns out to be more TALENTED than those guys, then by all means, TAKE HIM. Otherwise, go after the best big possible and solidfy the future of our frontline.
> 
> From what I've seen of YI, he doesn't have Bargnani/Notwitski type of shooting talent...he just happens to like dunking alot. show me something else.


Bargnani is the player I've heard Yi compared to the most. NBADraft.net writes:



> His perimeter shooting is very impressive as he can stretch the defense out to 18-20 feet comfortably … While he doesn’t own many back to the basket moves, Jianlian possesses a consistent turnaround jumper in the post


Are you refering to highlight reels you've watched or have you seen Yi in actual game play? All the scouting reports I've read talk about his dribbling, penetration, and strong shooting. Personally, I'd probably take him over Hawes and defeinitely Hibbert if he were on the board. A consensus seems to be forming that he's a top five player in a stacked draft (4 on Chad Ford's big board, 4 on NBAdraft.net).


----------



## chifaninca

All I can say is that it's good to be debating between players and just hoping something decent falls to us.

I'm int he crowd who says, unless you are trading a core player, duplication after the top 3 isn't the right move.

In other words, I think Corey Brewer will be a stud, however, I think Hawes, Hibbert, Yi Ji, Splitter will all be very capable contributors (not leaders). INHO our core including TT should be on the floor 38-20 minutes a night. So, having Brewer becomes a huge luxury, and we still have a gaping hole at the C spot.

I would rather see our core + a true center on the floor than Brewer or Conley type on the bench for 25+ a game.

Yi Ji may be the newest Rave, but like Bargnani and Yao he's no secret. It wouldnn't shock me to see him go 4 or even 3. He's a rare talent. He is the guy that can contribute in limited minutes next year, then potentially explode on the scene after a year of acclimating.....or he could be Wang Zhi Zhi. Still, Wang Zhi Zhi didn't get anywhere near the pub this guy is getting. Also, The guy has attitude and moxy from all reports. So, very tough to judge him or Splitter for that matter. 

So, in Paxson I trust. Paxson has done very well with his draft choices. I still am hoping for a true C, but I think as big a need is a Big Man's coach to bring these bigs along (including TT).


----------



## giusd

Unless we get one of the top three picks it is going to be either Hibbert or Hawes. We need a center one or the other will be there at nine.

david


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

mgolding said:


> Hibbert is a half court player. He will fill a big part of the lane but does he suit the way the bulls play? I think he'll be a good NBA player but the bulls may well have to slow it down a little to make the most of the big fella. If the above draft positions were to eventuate i would take him as he is a legitimate centre who lloks like he can still get a lot better.


I still think of the Bulls as half-court team. Now we're running against the Heat because they're a significantly older team which suffers with transition defense. We can run, to an extent, but we're one of the worst finishing teams in the NBA at finishing in the lane. Also, let's remember that Ben Wallace seldom scores on the break for us. You can fast break without your center. 

I think Hibbert would fit in just fine, but I'd prefer Hawes because of his passing ability and scoring versatility. Hibbert could be a really scary offensive player, and he would give us some size that we desperately need. For the next three years, he could spell Wallace, playing in certain matchups in which we need size and post scoring. He and Wallace could probably see some court time together as well.


----------



## yodurk

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I still think of the Bulls as half-court team. Now we're running against the Heat because they're a significantly older team which suffers with transition defense. We can run, to an extent, but we're one of the worst finishing teams in the NBA at finishing in the lane. Also, let's remember that Ben Wallace seldom scores on the break for us. You can fast break without your center.
> 
> I think Hibbert would fit in just fine, but I'd prefer Hawes because of his passing ability and scoring versatility. Hibbert could be a really scary offensive player, and he would give us some size that we desperately need. For the next three years, he could spell Wallace, playing in certain matchups in which we need size and post scoring. He and Wallace could probably see some court time together as well.


I really like everything about Hibbert, from his underrated skill set (the guy's range was pushing 3-point land) to his hard-working mentality. I'm just really concerned about his body. Unless he loses about 20 pounds, I'm not sure he'll be mobile enough to be effective. I'm also concerned about injuries. 82 games with that kind of weight usually means back, knee, or foot problems at some point. If he can guarentee to lose some weight, then I'd be more keen about taking him.


----------



## JeremyB0001

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I still think of the Bulls as half-court team. Now we're running against the Heat because they're a significantly older team which suffers with transition defense. We can run, to an extent, but we're one of the worst finishing teams in the NBA at finishing in the lane. Also, let's remember that Ben Wallace seldom scores on the break for us. You can fast break without your center.


You could make an argument that we don't run that successfully, but we were 6th in the league in pace so I think the evidence is strong that we've run quite a bit all season. 

I haven't seen Wallace score on the break a ton but he gets down the court very well. He even leads the break from time to time. Whether he's scoring or not I think that does make a difference because teams don't just ignore offensively inept big men like Wallace on the break. If they did it woulnd' be too hard for him to get a pass under the hoop and put it in.


----------



## giusd

I think that Hibbert is an under rated athlete because he looks unconventional but much like Artest i think hibbert is more athletic than he looks. He also has soft hands and good bball senses and i think he will be a very solid pro and would fit in well with our system. And as they say you cant teach height. 

david


----------



## yodurk

giusd said:


> I think that Hibbert is an under rated athlete because he looks unconventional but much like Artest i think hibbert is more athletic than he looks. He also has soft hands and good bball senses and i think he will be a very solid pro and would fit in well with our system. And as they say you cant teach height.
> 
> david


As my last post states, I definitely agree. He's an ok athlete and all. The guy just needs to shed some weight, and that's hardly a given with alot of big guys.


----------



## theanimal23

Everyone better be prayin' for that #1 on May 22nd. I can just imagine the fear in the rest of the league if we do get that, or #2.


----------



## rosenthall

JeremyB0001 said:


> You could make an argument that we don't run that successfully, but we were 6th in the league in pace so I think the evidence is strong that we've run quite a bit all season.
> 
> I haven't seen Wallace score on the break a ton but he gets down the court very well. He even leads the break from time to time. Whether he's scoring or not I think that does make a difference because teams don't just ignore offensively inept big men like Wallace on the break. If they did it woulnd' be too hard for him to get a pass under the hoop and put it in.


This is swaying the thread a bit off topic, but I always thought that Ben did a lot to help our fast break offense. Upon his arrival, I was surprised at how good he is at getting the ball up the court once he gets a rebound. And he gets his hands on a lot of balls that often lead to fast breaks even if they don't show up as rebounds or steals in his stats.


----------



## Nu_Omega

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=2021

An interview with Spencer Hawes (part 1)

7"0, 246 pounds at the moment.


----------



## The ROY

Spencer Hawes will be a BULL

I think Paxson will do what he can to get him

7"0 POST SCORER

we need that


----------



## TripleDouble

It seems like Hawes is the best fit outside of Oden. The highest I could see him going is #6 to Portland. What would it take to get Seattle's #5 pick? Could next year's pick do it?


----------



## theanimal23

There is a new article up on DX about Hawes. One of his uncles, I believe, used to have an association with the Sonics through the Owner or a close group of friends. If Seattle does not relocate, it could be a possibility they pick him. But to also rejuvenate fan interest, they could pick Yi due to the marketability up there in the NW.

Our two fears will be Portland and Seattle. I don't see Charlotte picking him. Minny will want a Win Now player.


----------



## RSP83

We need a bigman BADLY! I'll go fill our needs first before thinking about the best player available. Durant is the only swingman I'd draft ahead of these guys:

Horford
Hawes
Hibbert
Splitter

If Horford's out and Hawes is available then we go with him. It'll take sometime for Hawes to fill out his body. But down the line he's going to be very valuable. The only downside about Hawes is I doubt he'll ever develop into a banger like Amare/Howard. His game is more finesse like Tim Duncan. And he's not going to be the guy who will stop Howard/Amare in the future. We need a banger to play next to Hawes. And I don't think Tyrus is that guy either.

Hibbert on the other hand is going to be able to bang down low with the best big in the league. But I just don't believe Hibbert is going to be much more than a big body like Ervin Johnson. However, if he turns at least into a Nazr Mohammed I think that's good enough.

I'll pick Hawes because he can score and a good passer and pretty good rebounder. If he pans out while Big Ben can still play than we're going to be pretty good. Otherwise, Pax needs to bring in another big body. Cuz, I think Hawes is going to get eaten alive on the defensive end.


----------



## darlets

Is there any interest in trying to get Patrick O'Bryant from Golden State, the 
Hawes article mentioned he was a bad fit for them. Obviously we wouldn't trade this years first rounder.

He'd probably be better than anyone we can get in the second round, or with next years pick.

So would they come at next years pick and our second rounders????


----------



## giusd

Patrick O'Bryant ??? He is almost a wash in just one season. He had a solid end of the season and based on that sea wasted a pick on him. He barely played this year and is years away from being a starter.

david


----------



## yodurk

darlets said:


> Is there any interest in trying to get Patrick O'Bryant from Golden State, the
> Hawes article mentioned he was a bad fit for them. Obviously we wouldn't trade this years first rounder.
> 
> He'd probably be better than anyone we can get in the second round, or with next years pick.
> 
> So would they come at next years pick and our second rounders????


I'm incredibly biased since Bradley is my favorite college team (that's where O'Bryant played), but I would be all for an O'Bryant trade in the draft. For one, his trade value is very low so we could get a bargain. And secondly, he's a true 7-footer with a huge 7'5 wingspan which we don't have. O'Bryant isn't an offensive threat at this level, but he could be with some good coaching and opportunity. He has some very good potential on the defensive end in particular.


----------



## yodurk

giusd said:


> Patrick O'Bryant ??? He is almost a wash in just one season. He had a solid end of the season and based on that sea wasted a pick on him. He barely played this year and is years away from being a starter.
> 
> david


Between injuries and Nelson's preference for small lineups, O'Bryant never really got much of a chance. Yeah, he's very raw at this level. But he would've only been a junior in college and was only a rookie. Plenty of big men have non-existant rookie seasons and still become good players. Something he does have is an NBA body, great length, and decent athletic ability (not a freak, but solid enough). I'll take him, but only for the right price. Our #9 pick in a strong draft is too much. They'd either need to throw something else our way, or make it a 3-way trade.


----------



## darlets

giusd said:


> Patrick O'Bryant ??? He is almost a wash in just one season. He had a solid end of the season and based on that sea wasted a pick on him. He barely played this year and is years away from being a starter.
> 
> david


My question is more is he better than who we're going to get as our back up center? Our two second rounders are likely to be for bigs and next years pick would like be in the 20's, and I would hazard a guess for a big as well.

If Paxson likes him, is next year pick and our two second rounder worth it?

You could end up with Hawes and O'Bryant for next season. Grooming Hawes for the starter and O'Bryant for the back up.


----------



## McBulls

Whatever the Bulls do, they should come out of the 2007 draft with only one rookie. It's very painful to give even one rookie the 800-1000 regular season minutes they need to establish themselves in the NBA as players who are not automatic foul magnets in the eyes of referees who go more on reputation than visual evidence for their calls.

The Bulls will be contending for the title next year. The last thing they need is an anchor drag of the gratuitous fouls and turnovers accumulated by 2 second round draft pick rookies or some 1st year graduates in trade who didn't get many minutes in 2006-7.


----------



## darlets

McBulls said:


> Whatever the Bulls do, they should come out of the 2007 draft with only one rookie.


One or none? If we get moved down to the 10th pick, look for Paxson to package all the picks for a big.



McBulls said:


> It's very painful to give even one rookie the 800-1000 regular season minutes they need to establish themselves in the NBA as players who are not automatic foul magnets in the eyes of referees who go more on reputation than visual evidence for their calls.


This is true. Skiles did find minutes for two rookies this year though, at times it was painful but in the long run worth it.



McBulls said:


> The Bulls will be contending for the title next year. The last thing they need is an anchor drag of the gratuitous fouls and turnovers accumulated by 2 second round draft pick rookies or some 1st year graduates in trade who didn't get many minutes in 2006-7.


We do need a extra back up big though? Can we get one through F.A?


----------



## JeremyB0001

darlets said:


> One or none? If we get moved down to the 10th pick, look for Paxson to package all the picks for a big.


I'm not really sure why moving down one spot would be the difference between using the pick and dealing it. It's entirely possible that the player we'd draft at 9 would be available at 10. Either way, the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of us staying at 9.



McBulls said:


> Whatever the Bulls do, they should come out of the 2007 draft with only one rookie. It's very painful to give even one rookie the 800-1000 regular season minutes they need to establish themselves in the NBA as players who are not automatic foul magnets in the eyes of referees who go more on reputation than visual evidence for their calls.
> 
> The Bulls will be contending for the title next year. The last thing they need is an anchor drag of the gratuitous fouls and turnovers accumulated by 2 second round draft pick rookies or some 1st year graduates in trade who didn't get many minutes in 2006-7.


I don't know. I think this assumes that if we carry a second rookie on the roster, that player will receive a large number of entitlement minutes and I don't see that happening. Maybe a rookie who's a 12th or 14th man doesn't improve the way that he should if he doesn't get enough minutes but if we're using a second round pick we already have, we're not hurting ourselves in any way. This would also be true if we move some minor assets (second rounders or a future first rounder) for a late first rounder. I dislike the idea that because we're a contender we should stop acquiring assets and taking fliers on guys. Pax has showed a good eye for talent so if he seems a player he likes at little to no cost, I say go for it.


----------



## Nu_Omega

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=2023

Part 2 of the Spencer Hawes interview

Seems like it's gonna be either Hibbert or Hawes for us. Hibbert will be the long term solution to big Ben if Pax is looking for D. Hawes will be interesting though, his post skills will allow the bulls to work some offense thorugh him to relieve pressure for our backcourt and Deng. Hopefully either one will be available come draft time.


----------



## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls!

It's kind of weird that no matter how well the team is doing, no matter how many wins we keep piling up, this is the 1st thread I always check when I log onto this site. 

It's possibly due to the recurring thought of the Bulls playing in the conference and/or NBA finals while the ping pong balls bounce around in Pscathaway, and the announcer thereafter first taking note that that the #9pick wound up to a team other than the Bulls, which then triggers immediate synapses in the brain forcing one to yell alound, "yeah we're in like Flynn!" And then the NYK in the lottery effect (even if only a formality) takes full force, and David Stern does a 1985, announcing that "the 1st pick in the 2007 NBA Draft goes to the New York Knicks".

And then who can forget the faux paux smile on Isiah's face afterwards, compelling him to reiterate that "he's very happy with the player he already has". 

And then the final cumulation point, where Greg Oden himself takes note that he maybe playing for the NBA champs next year!!!!!!

Excess of riches


----------



## JeremyB0001

TripleDouble said:


> It seems like Hawes is the best fit outside of Oden. The highest I could see him going is #6 to Portland. What would it take to get Seattle's #5 pick? Could next year's pick do it?


I'm a huge Hawes fan but I wouldn't trade up to get him. We're in good enough position that if he goes early, someone very good will fall to us.


----------



## Showtyme

1. Hawes will probably be available at our pick.

2. We don't need to "groom" a backup big man. We just need to buy one. Are any of these guys going to be better than Jamaal Magloire, who after the season he just had, probably can be bought for under the MLE? Are any of these guys going to be better than Melvin Ely, or even Scot Pollard?

3. This thread remains active simply because we're in the enviable position of being both in the playoffs and in possession of a lottery pick.


----------



## step

> 2. We don't need to "groom" a backup big man. We just need to buy one.


True.



> Are any of these guys going to be better than Jamaal Magloire, who after the season he just had, probably can be bought for under the MLE? Are any of these guys going to be better than Melvin Ely, or even Scot Pollard?


I better ****ing hope so. Magloire is terrible, Ely isn't much better and Pollard is essentially on his last legs. Those 3 basically provide nothing but 6 fouls.


----------



## giusd

I dont have any idea what paxson will do but most of the draft boards i have read have Hibbert higher or much higher than Hawes. I dont know what that means but it is something to think about. NBADraftnet has the bulls picking Hibbert at 9 yesterday and Hawes going 13 and Draftexpress has Hibbert going number 5 to sea?? and Hawes going 12 to the 76ers. The only page that has Hawes ahead of Hibbert is the ESPN lotto generator.

Again i am not sure what all this means but it appears that the CW has Hibbert ahead off Hawes and if Paxson has to chose between a offensive and a defensive center we all know what he will do. Paxson always puts D first.

david


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## theanimal23

Don't know where to put this, but is anyone else unable to get to the main webpage of our Bulls Forum. I'm getting a msg saying can't connect to the IP of the website of our main Bulls forum webpage.

Unable to connect to memcache server


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## JeremyB0001

Showtyme said:


> 2. We don't need to "groom" a backup big man. We just need to buy one. Are any of these guys going to be better than Jamaal Magloire, who after the season he just had, probably can be bought for under the MLE? Are any of these guys going to be better than Melvin Ely, or even Scot Pollard?


All three of those guys are terrible so my answer would be that the scouts, draft experts, and any team who drafts them certainly believes they'll be much, much better. Players can certainly be busts (Ely was drafted 12th) but obviously you don't draft them if you have that expectation. If Pax doesn't like any of the available big man he should take the best player available - considering the quality of this draft there should be very good players left at 9 - or trade the pick.


----------



## King Joseus

theanimal23 said:


> Don't know where to put this, but is anyone else unable to get to the main webpage of our Bulls Forum. I'm getting a msg saying can't connect to the IP of the website of our main Bulls forum webpage.
> 
> Unable to connect to memcache server


I'm not getting that - are you still having the problem?


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## theanimal23

Not anymore. Thanks for asking KingJ. I'm not gonna lie, it was scary. I love this website.


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## King Joseus

theanimal23 said:


> Not anymore. Thanks for asking KingJ. I'm not gonna lie, it was scary. I love this website.


Good thing it was just a hiccup, I'm glad it's going good now...


----------



## JeremyB0001

giusd said:


> I dont have any idea what paxson will do but most of the draft boards i have read have Hibbert higher or much higher than Hawes. I dont know what that means but it is something to think about. NBADraftnet has the bulls picking Hibbert at 9 yesterday and Hawes going 13 and Draftexpress has Hibbert going number 5 to sea?? and Hawes going 12 to the 76ers. The only page that has Hawes ahead of Hibbert is the ESPN lotto generator.


I often enjoy the scouting reports from those websites but I'm not sure they have contacts with NBA personnel and scouts the way that Chad Ford and (supposedly) Sam Smith do. I haven't been following the mock drafts on those sites much but sometimes there's a tendency to place too much emphasis on the tournament. That applies not only to fans and writers but also teams, so perhaps Hibbert's stock was elevated by his draft stock in the tournament and he'll say there. Personally though, I'd be somewhat surprised if he went ahead of Hawes who, at least until recently, was considered to be the more athletic and skilled of the two players. Several months ago, Hibbert did not have much hype and Hawes was a McDonals All American and one of the top pro prospects in his class. If he falls all the better for us. If Yi gets taken after Hibbert, I suspect whoever drafts him won't be allowed to forget it any time soon.


----------



## laso

Showtyme said:


> 1. Hawes will probably be available at our pick.
> 
> 2. We don't need to "groom" a backup big man. We just need to buy one. Are any of these guys going to be better than Jamaal Magloire, who after the season he just had, probably can be bought for under the MLE? Are any of these guys going to be better than Melvin Ely, or even Scot Pollard?


Interesting point. But two things come to mind. First, this draft seems particularly rich in big guys, so even at 9, we may get lucky and get a good pick. Second, none of the guys you mention appeal to me. I actually would prefer to go for Darko, if hw is available.


----------



## theanimal23

Funny thing is, Darko is only 21. And he's been the league a while. Kid lacks the killer instinct you want in a big time playmaker.


----------



## darlets

King Joseus said:


> Good thing it was just a hiccup, I'm glad it's going good now...


King Joseus why is it your jersey record stats in your sig are regular and playoff record combined????

Players stats are divided into regular and play off stats. Surely the jersey's should be to. How are we to know which of your jersey are real play off performers??????

P.S your avatars are killing my work ethic!!!!


----------



## Fizer Fanatic

Showtyme said:


> 1. Hawes will probably be available at our pick.
> 
> 2. We don't need to "groom" a backup big man. We just need to buy one. Are any of these guys going to be better than Jamaal Magloire, who after the season he just had, probably can be bought for under the MLE? Are any of these guys going to be better than Melvin Ely, or even Scot Pollard?
> 
> 3. This thread remains active simply because we're in the enviable position of being both in the playoffs and in possession of a lottery pick.


1. It looks that way right now. However, that's far from certain at this point. We'll have to see how things shake out w/ the draft lottery, pre-draft workouts and perhaps even draft night surprises. Things will change some between now and the time of the draft. Hopefully, we can luck into the 1st pick, take Oden, and forget about the Hawes vs. Hibbert debate. However, the odds are against that.

2. Agreed, we don't need to groom a backup big man. PJ Brown could even fill that need if he came back. I'd prefer to avoid those other names, but they wouldn't be the end of the world. A lottery backup C is advantageous becauase it allows us to groom someone to take over at center in a few years as Big Ben declines. In year 1, the lottery guy probably won't be better than those vets. By year 4, I'm hoping the lottery C could be much better while showing the skills & ability to be a quality starting C.

3. That, and some of us are just obsessed with the draft, finding size & post offense for our team, etc.


----------



## King Joseus

darlets said:


> King Joseus why is it your jersey record stats in your sig are regular and playoff record combined????
> 
> Players stats are divided into regular and play off stats. Surely the jersey's should be to. How are we to know which of your jersey are real play off performers??????
> 
> P.S your avatars are killing my work ethic!!!!


Haha, actually they don't include the playoff stats. Those aren't up anywhere but in the Game 4 thread on some page towards the end. As for my avatars, well, I got nothin'...


----------



## BG7

Andris Biedrins would be a GREAT fit on our team. He'd probably cost more than our pick though.


----------



## charlietyra

Mebarak said:


> Andris Biedrins would be a GREAT fit on our team. He'd probably cost more than our pick though.


I think Biedrins will now become part of the core for Golden State. Starting him over Harrington at the 5 spot was a key move by Nelson in winning game 6. He dominated the boards and had some key blocks. He is one of the unsung heroes of the series and I don't think GS will move him. The guy is only 21 years old!

In seeking to "read between the lines" from Paxson's comments yesterday, it seems that he is really zeroing in on an offensive post player to help the team now. IMO, the only guy who really fits the bill in the draft is Hawes at the #9 slot. However, IMO he is much too young to be an immediate help to the Bulls. That is why I am now convinced that Pax will use the pick in a move to get a veteran. I expect he will use the pick (or the player selected with the pick) along with perhaps Duhon or Noce (in a S&T) to get Camby. 

Camby has been on Paxson's radar for a while and Denver is approaching Luxury Tax hell. The guy has a few decent years left and Denver knows his value won't be any higher than it is now. Also, Blake will no doubt go for greener pastures (at least $5 mill per year which the Nugs can't afford) and Duhon is an affordable replacement. 

Other possibilities are Odom or Al Harrington. Contrary to what other posters have said, I think Odom would fit the Bulls style very well. He scores, rebounds, passes, and is a decent defender (he can guard three positions). He would match up well with a guy like Rasheed Wallace who could be the key reason the Bulls don't prevail over the Pistons this year. He can be had it seems at the right price. 

As indicated above, I think Harrington is now expendable. The Bulls have made some noise about getting him in the past. He does not fill the profile of the type of big that the Bulls really need, but if everything else fails he could provide the inside scoring and toughness that would help the Bulls next year (assuming the price is right). He would definitely be a fallback though.


----------



## The ROY

Nocioni, #9 + Duhon for Camby?

U know that has no chance in HELL of happening right? Paxson wouldn't even trade Nocioni ALONE for Camby. He's not a post threat nor is he the most conditioned player in the league. He's injury-prone and almost at the end of his career.


----------



## charlietyra

The ROY said:


> Nocioni, #9 + Duhon for Camby?
> 
> U know that has no chance in HELL of happening right? Paxson wouldn't even trade Nocioni ALONE for Camby. He's not a post threat nor is he the most conditioned player in the league. He's injury-prone and almost at the end of his career.


Camby's age and contract are the reasons Denver would trade him. He can't be that decrepit if he just won DPOY. I predict that if the Bulls don't prevail over the Pistons it will be because of the R. Wallace matchup. Pax does not want to go backwards. If there is a guy out there available that will get us over the hump, Pax knows that he needs to get him. 

Noce will be expendable (the Bulls were 17-11 without him) and he will cost too much to be just a 6th man. The 9th guy in the draft will not be a premier player, at least for a few more years. Paxson understands that the Bulls are on the cusp of an elite team and he needs another part- an experienced big guy. Yes, KG would be better, but the Bulls would have to give up a core guy to do this. I don't think Pax does that.


----------



## chifaninca

Wow, I for one, would be very disapponted if our #9 pick, plus Nocioni or Duhon was only worth Camby. Camby has another year or three (like Walalce), but beyond that, nothing.

That idea makes me yearn for theKG ideas (thatI also disliked due to age and cost).


It might have been diferent if we had gone after nene last off-season, but not Camby.


Thanks but I'll take a mix of Nocioni + #9 pick (Hawes, Hibbert or Splitter - I think Yi ji goes before 9).


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

charlietyra said:


> I think Biedrins will now become part of the core for Golden State. Starting him over Harrington at the 5 spot was a key move by Nelson in winning game 6. He dominated the boards and had some key blocks. He is one of the unsung heroes of the series and I don't think GS will move him. The guy is only 21 years old!
> 
> In seeking to "read between the lines" from Paxson's comments yesterday, it seems that he is really zeroing in on an offensive post player to help the team now.


What interview was this that you are speaking of? Is there a link to it?


----------



## charlietyra

Darius Miles Davis said:


> What interview was this that you are speaking of? Is there a link to it?


From John Jackson's column today:

''But let's face it: We've won one playoff series. They've won a championship there, and they've been able to get the complementary big man when they were able to trade for Rasheed Wallace. That was the piece they needed to win a championship.'' 

Paxson still is searching for the piece -- a big man capable of scoring in the low post -- that will complete his roster. Even though he will be rooting hard for the Bulls to upset the Pistons in the Eastern Conference semifinal series that begins Saturday, he knows they likely won't be legitimate title contenders until he finds his Rasheed Wallace. 


Would prefer keeping core
''I'd love to do it while keeping our [perimeter] core together and letting that continue to grow, and then placing a [low-post scorer] in that mix,'' Paxson said. ''Does it happen through the draft? I don't know. Does it happen through free agency? It might have to happen through a trade, and I might have to make a decision based on some of the personnel we have here and moving something. 
''But we do need that. We need a guy who can take some of the pressure off. The thing I think is valuable about having a post player is that you can settle the game down. That's the advantage. I think our perimeter guys are really good, so if we can find a guy to complement Ben and complement them, then we add to what we already are.'' 

But Paxson isn't about to overpay for that player. Remember, he turned down a deal for the Memphis Grizzlies' Pau Gasol before the trade deadline in February because he wasn't willing to give up Luol Deng. In retrospect, nearly every Bulls fan is happy that deal wasn't made. 

Somehow, some way, you get the feeling that Paxson will find a way to get that low-post scorer without having to give up anyone from the team's young core of Ben Gordon, Kirk Hinrich and Deng -- just like he was able to land Ben Wallace on the free-agent market last summer when everyone expected Wallace to re-sign with the Pistons.


----------



## The ROY

If Hawes scored 10 ppg a game as a rookie, in the post, we'd be MUCH better, period.

We're talking as if Rasheed is KG or something, he's a decent big who's versitile but he isn't a HUGE threat like Paxson is making him out to seem.

I don't see the Detriot series as a huge problem for us personally.

Hawes or Splitter should really help out the perimeter guys, rookies or not.


----------



## Good Hope

The ROY said:


> If Hawes scored 10 ppg a game as a rookie, in the post, we'd be MUCH better, period.
> 
> We're talking as if Rasheed is KG or something, he's a decent big who's versitile but he isn't a HUGE threat like Paxson is making him out to seem.
> 
> I don't see the Detriot series as a huge problem for us personally.
> 
> Hawes or Splitter should really help out the perimeter guys, rookies or not.


One thing you should be careful about. Skiles is going to play people who can hold their own both offensively and defensively, so that they know how to keep the whole system working. 10 pts in the post by itself doesn't mean much. 

The player needs to be able to complement what everyone else is doing. I agree that Pax does seem to be leaning toward a trade rather than drafting. Still, the lottery balls have not yet spoken.


----------



## theanimal23

I don't know where we will find this player. All guys at our current slot are either great on one side of the ball or just plain average at both sides.

We don't have the contracts to make a trade. We are not trading our Big 3. From reports, it sounds like Tyrus and Thabo are here to stay. Although I can see one of them being sent if it can solve our problem. With the way things are looking, unless there is a Brady Quinn or Paul Pierce like drop, we are going to have to hope that Tyrus becomes that force. Only because we know we can play the D, its a matter of developing the O.


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## darlets

Which players are a lock to go before the 9th pick?

Oden, Durant, Wright and Horford????

Corey Brewer.


----------



## JeremyB0001

theanimal23 said:


> I don't know where we will find this player. All guys at our current slot are either great on one side of the ball or just plain average at both sides.
> 
> We don't have the contracts to make a trade. We are not trading our Big 3. From reports, it sounds like Tyrus and Thabo are here to stay. Although I can see one of them being sent if it can solve our problem. With the way things are looking, unless there is a Brady Quinn or Paul Pierce like drop, we are going to have to hope that Tyrus becomes that force. Only because we know we can play the D, its a matter of developing the O.


I wouldn't say that Tyrus won't become a post presence though I won't say he'll become a big one either. Right now, post scoring is not one of Tyrus' top two or three attributes. If we draft a player like Hawes, he won't have as high an upside as Tyrus and he likely won't be as good as Tyrus but his best skill will be scoring so he'd probably be a better bet to become our post scorer, even if he's lacking in other areas. 

I suppose it depends on how desperate you think we are for post scoring. We're not going to get a good back to the basket scorer who is also a good rebounder and defender unless a miracle happens and we get the #1 pick and draft Oden. But we're probably not going to get a player who fits that profile no matter what, so if Pax is adamant about low post scoring, I think the best case scenario is likely a somewhat one dimensional player who scores down low but maybe doesn't do a lot else. Hawes fits that description relatively well.


----------



## Rodman

Another guy I'd like us to get a very long look at is Sean Williams, yes he has offcourt problems, but if we somehow can get him late in the first or early in the second round I would be very happy. Yes he's high risk, but he could pay off really big too. Remember all doubts about Amare? Sure Williams is not that high up, but he still could be a real good big man and with BW teaching him the ropes, and our other guys keeping him on the right way IMO he would be a really good option for us!


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## JeremyB0001

Rodman said:


> Another guy I'd like us to get a very long look at is Sean Williams, yes he has offcourt problems, but if we somehow can get him late in the first or early in the second round I would be very happy. Yes he's high risk, but he could pay off really big too. Remember all doubts about Amare? Sure Williams is not that high up, but he still could be a real good big man and with BW teaching him the ropes, and our other guys keeping him on the right way IMO he would be a really good option for us!


Obviously Pax/Skiles might have some issues with his jib but now that Thabeet is out of the draft and Splitter's stock is rebounding, he might be a good option for the late first round flier I've been wanting to take on a big man. I doubt he'll be around for our second round picks though and in reality it's probably not that likely that Pax will be clammoring for more draft picks.


----------



## rosenthall

I don't think it's any sure bet that Hawes or Hibbert help at all in their first year. Spencer Hawes looks like he's two years away from being strong enough to use his post moves, and he's not athletic enough like Tyrus Thomas to overcome his other physical limitations. And on defense, I see him being a complete mismatch with our swarming, fast paced style, and he should get outmuscled by just about every team, making his defensive shortcomings even worse. If we draft him, I would expect him to get the Patrick O'Bryant treatment. 

Hibbert has had foul trouble in college, and I don't see that getting any better his 1st year or two in the league, and it's not out of the question that may not be physically capable of overcoming it at all (see Sweetney, Michael). I think he'll have a big problem picking up early fouls, and if Ben Gordon, Tyrus Thomas, Michael Sweetney, Tyson Chandler, and Eddy Curry have all had conditioning issues with Skiles that took away from their playing time, I don't see Hibbert being any different, since it's always been a weakness of his.

Outside of being graced with a top two pick, the only other guy in the draft that obviously can do what we need is Al Horford. He's always struck me as a young Horace Grant, which I think would fit this team like a glove. I don't think it would be easy to trade up and get him, and I think there's about a 1% chance that he falls to us, but if he can be had at the #5 pick, I don't think putting a package together would be out of the question.

If he falls to five, I think we could possibly do something like Mike Conley, our 1st next year unprotected, Sweets or someone else of that ilk, 3 million in cash for Horford and Luke Ridnour, who ideally we could trade immediately to someone else for expiring contracts and second round picks. My heart wants to believe that we could trade up to get him without giving up anyone in our rotation or Tyrus and Thabo, but in reality I'm not sure how possible that is. If we had to bite the bullet and give up someone like Noc or Thabo, I'd have to think _really_ hard about it, but I think I might do it.


----------



## JeremyB0001

rosenthall said:


> I don't think it's any sure bet that Hawes or Hibbert help at all in their first year. Spencer Hawes looks like he's two years away from being strong enough to use his post moves, and he's not athletic enough like Tyrus Thomas to overcome his other physical limitations. And on defense, I see him being a complete mismatch with our swarming, fast paced style, and he should get outmuscled by just about every team, making his defensive shortcomings even worse. If we draft him, I would expect him to get the Patrick O'Bryant treatment.
> 
> Hibbert has had foul trouble in college, and I don't see that getting any better his 1st year or two in the league, and it's not out of the question that may not be physically capable of overcoming it at all (see Sweetney, Michael). I think he'll have a big problem picking up early fouls, and if Ben Gordon, Tyrus Thomas, Michael Sweetney, Tyson Chandler, and Eddy Curry have all had conditioning issues with Skiles that took away from their playing time, I don't see Hibbert being any different, since it's always been a weakness of his.
> 
> Outside of being graced with a top two pick, the only other guy in the draft that obviously can do what we need is Al Horford. He's always struck me as a young Horace Grant, which I think would fit this team like a glove. I don't think it would be easy to trade up and get him, and I think there's about a 1% chance that he falls to us, but if he can be had at the #5 pick, I don't think putting a package together would be out of the question.
> 
> If he falls to five, I think we could possibly do something like Mike Conley, our 1st next year unprotected, Sweets or someone else of that ilk, 3 million in cash for Horford and Luke Ridnour, who ideally we could trade immediately to someone else for expiring contracts and second round picks. My heart wants to believe that we could trade up to get him without giving up anyone in our rotation or Tyrus and Thabo, but in reality I'm not sure how possible that is. If we had to bite the bullet and give up someone like Noc or Thabo, I'd have to think _really_ hard about it, but I think I might do it.



Great post. I agree completely except that I think if we're desperate enough for post scoring that Hawes or Hibbert could contribute something next year because even though they will have a long ways to go, the odds are good that at least Hawes will have a substantially better back to the basket game than anyone else on the team next season. A player with post moves who struggles to get position gives you more back to the basket scoring than players who don't have a back to the basket game. I think the issue is, with the success we've had this year without a post scorer, would we be willing to put up with the mistakes a rookie is bound to make in major minutes? Judging from Skiles' use of Thabo and Tyrus this season, I think the answer is probably a resounding no.


----------



## McBulls

If the Bulls are really desperate for low post scoring they should keep Sweetney and resign Marcus Fizer from the NBADL. Both those guys can score a lot better in the low post than any of the rookies available in the draft.

The truth is that low post scoring is overrated. The proposition is proved by the fact that Sweetney has seen so little time on the floor this season, in spite of the fact that he is clearly the best low post scorer on the team. 

The Bulls just crushed a team that featured one of the greatest low post players of all time.
Golden State just thumped the team that had the best low post scorer in the NBA.
New Jersey just beat a Toronto team that had a much better low post game.
Detroit crushed a team that arguably has the best low post player in the eastern conference.
Phoenix will most likely beat a San Antonio team in the next round that has the best remaining low post player in the playoffs.

The lottery is crowded with teams that have effective low post scorers. 

Winning basketball in the NBA requires quickness, great outside shooting, rebounding and dedication to team defense. Low post scoring is not on this list.

The Bulls can satisfy their low-post scoring lust by drafting Glen Davis in the second round.


----------



## theanimal23

Rosenthall, hell of a post. Horford is a guy who would be a perfect fit here. Sure in the long run we could have two potentially good PFs in Horford and Tyrus, but that is a good problem to have. I say we take him. Sure we might have trouble matching up with the Howards and Oden's of the world, but 'it takes five' to win. I think we could handle our own and in certain matchups we could play GSW/Phx to run with any team. 

If Horford drops to 5 and teams such as Portland, Charlotte, Seattle, and Minny are ahead of us, I only see two teams potentailly taking him: Seattle because they've messed up their last three picks of big men, and Minny, as Horford is NBA Ready. 

I'm sure a package of our next year's pick, top 5 protected and this years would be enough to move up four spots. 

I'm a fan of Duhon as he is a GREAT BACKUP PG. He plays a lot due to Kirk getting in foul trouble, but if he is the price we have to pay to get Horford, whom if Paxson firmly believes would be a solid player, then I'll do the trade. I see Horford as a Deng-like player. A guy who is gifted and athletic-enough, but not in the upper echleon of athletes. But a mentally sound player, hard worker, and strong fundamentals. I've been a big Horford fan.


----------



## McBulls

theanimal23 said:


> Rosenthall, hell of a post. Horford is a guy who would be a perfect fit here. Sure in the long run we could have two potentially good PFs in Horford and Tyrus, but that is a good problem to have. I say we take him. Sure we might have trouble matching up with the Howards and Oden's of the world, but 'it takes five' to win. I think we could handle our own and in certain matchups we could play GSW/Phx to run with any team.



You don't have to match up with the Howard's and Oden's of the NBA, but you do need to defend them. The Bulls need a center in this draft. They do not need a power forward, who are, comparatively speaking a dime-a-dozen in any draft or free agent market.

This is an extraoridinarily center-rich draft. The no-brainer is that the Bulls should draft one of them.


----------



## rosenthall

JeremyB0001 said:


> Great post. I agree completely except that I think if we're desperate enough for post scoring that Hawes or Hibbert could contribute something next year because even though they will have a long ways to go, the odds are good that at least Hawes will have a substantially better back to the basket game than anyone else on the team next season. A player with post moves who struggles to get position gives you more back to the basket scoring than players who don't have a back to the basket game. I think the issue is, with the success we've had this year without a post scorer, would we be willing to put up with the mistakes a rookie is bound to make in major minutes? Judging from Skiles' use of Thabo and Tyrus this season, I think the answer is probably a resounding no.


I would say that having skill at something and being effective at that same thing are entirely different and people tend to confuse them regularly. Like I said, Hawes obviously has a very natural offensive ability that can't be taught, but I don't think he'll be able to use it for the foreseeable future, which largely negates the usefulness of his skill. And the cost of allowing him to get comfortable to the NBA game will be pretty steep on a team that will be competing for the ECF next year, so like you said, I think the answer of whether or not he will be able to play a lot next year is pretty clear, unless he's a lot more NBA ready with his weakness than I'm giving him credit for.

And I should probably point out that I'm not against Spencer Hawes. I'd probably be fine if we picked him at #9, but I don't agree with how a lot of people are forecasting what his impact will be on this team, and the ease with which he'll integrate himself into what we do.


----------



## theanimal23

I wouldn't pick any of the centers unless you thought they would be a solid starter. Not someone who is serviceable a la Nazr, Dalembert, etc. Take the best big man even if that includes a PF if he is going to be by far a better player.

I'll trust Pax, but I don't want to pick a guy just because he is 7 feet tall. Thats how you waste a pick. Seattle has done it 3x in a row. If you draft for need and that player is not likely to be a good player, you still have that need. Move up or trade out if you think that any of the guys available at our spot are not worth it. I like what I have read about Hawes, but I will know more once workouts occur.


----------



## rosenthall

McBulls said:


> If the Bulls are really desperate for low post scoring they should keep Sweetney and resign Marcus Fizer from the NBADL. Both those guys can score a lot better in the low post than any of the rookies available in the draft.
> 
> The truth is that low post scoring is overrated. The proposition is proved by the fact that Sweetney has seen so little time on the floor this season, in spite of the fact that he is clearly the best low post scorer on the team.
> 
> The Bulls just crushed a team that featured one of the greatest low post players of all time.
> Golden State just thumped the team that had the best low post scorer in the NBA.
> New Jersey just beat a Toronto team that had a much better low post game.
> Detroit crushed a team that arguably has the best low post player in the eastern conference.
> Phoenix will most likely beat a San Antonio team in the next round that has the best remaining low post player in the playoffs.
> 
> The lottery is crowded with teams that have effective low post scorers.
> 
> Winning basketball in the NBA requires quickness, great outside shooting, rebounding and dedication to team defense. Low post scoring is not on this list.
> 
> The Bulls can satisfy their low-post scoring lust by drafting Glen Davis in the second round.


I think contending teams have offenses that create mismatches and efficient scoring opportunities for everyone that's on the floor. It just so happens that having a strong low-post scorer is usually the easiest way to accomplish both of these, but there's a profound difference between someone who has the technical skill to score in the post, and someone who can do it effectively.

Take your example of Mr. Sweetney. The only mismatch he creates is when he has to guard someone, and even though he has nice touch, solid footwork, and a variety of moves, he's so slow and plodding that practically any NBA journeyman can cover him effectively with single coverage. In fact, even the rim itself has proven to be a daunting line of defense for our rotund Georgetown alum, given that it has been an insurmountable blockade on many a wide-open three foot bunny. 

Just because the NBA is littered with fat, sluggish 6'7 post players who can't get their shot off does not mean that having an able back to the basket scorer who can dunk over their defender, score on double teams and pass out of the post would be an extremely valuable addition to our team.

Although I agree that mediocre low-post play does not do much good, and by itself low-post scoring does not make a bad offense good, it can more easily than most other types of offense.


----------



## rosenthall

McBulls said:


> You don't have to match up with the Howard's and Oden's of the NBA, but you do need to defend them. The Bulls need a center in this draft. They do not need a power forward, who are, comparatively speaking a dime-a-dozen in any draft or free agent market.
> 
> This is an extraoridinarily center-rich draft. The no-brainer is that the Bulls should draft one of them.


From what I can tell, the list of big men who can realistically be had in the lottery reads like this:

Greg Oden
Kevin Durant
Al Horford
Yi Jianlian
Tiago Splitter
Joakim Noah
Spencer Hawes
Roy Hibbert
Josh McRoberts
Brandan Wright

Of the list, I would say there are 3 guys on the list who's best position will be center.

As far as their defensive prowess goes, I would say one looks to be a great defender (Oden, obviously), and after that I think they all have question marks.

Brandan Wright has the body of a 6'10 Thabo. Yi and Durant seem to be 7' SF's, Spencer Hawes has been noted for his defensive weaknesses.

The three that look to be good bets to be able big man defenders in the foreseeable future are Hibbert, Splitter, and Horford. Of the 3, I would say Horford has the least question marks surrounding him, and the most physical talent. Hibbert has the advantage of size, which might ultimately give him the advantage over the others, but I don't think it's hard to imagine how he could pick up a lot of fouls from being slow to rotate, fatigue, or facing a variety of mismatches created by players who are more athletic and agile than he is. I don't know enough about Splitter to comment.


----------



## theanimal23

I know we have one missing link, but you don't draft for need unless you know that player will be at least a quality player. It'd be like taking Sene for the sake of him being 7 feet tall.

Sure if Pax thinks Hibbert, Splitter, or Hawes is fine, I'm not going to second guess him. But all of these guys have question marks. You could argue that the only guys who don't have question marks in the top 10 are Oden, Durant, Horford, and Brewer. Meaning whoever we choose has some bust potential. But thats always the case in any draft.

I know we don't need any younger players, but if we take Hawes who will be brought along slowly, then I'd like to make another draft day trade for an more NBA ready player. 

The following teams pick after us, if no one behind us moves into the lotto:
Sacto, Atlanta/Indy, Philly, New Orleans, LAC, Detroit, DC, and NJ.

For the teams ahead of us, I don't see Portland, Seattle, Minny, or Charlotte taking Splitter. I could see Minny taking Hibbert, but thats a huge IF. 

If we somehow have the choice of Hawes, Hibbert, and Splitter @ 9 (and we take Hawes), I can see Splitter and/or Hibbert drop to Detroit, DC, or NJ. I don't think any of those teams would trade with us for a first rounder next year. Detroit also needs to replace their PF/C eventually. 

Sacto is a question mark. I'm sure they would take Hawes, maybe Hibbert. If Pax could package next year's pick and some second rounders, I would be very happy coming out of this draft with Hawes at 9 and Hibbert/Splitter around 15. We'd add some height and would be younger. Ideally I'd take Splitter and Hawes in my scenario.


----------



## theanimal23

I think the Hawks take Acie Law in their late lotto pick. LAC is a big question depending on Livingston. If Law is their main guy, they could trade the pick if the is off the board. They also don't have much depth behind Kaman/Brand, and might pick Splitter.

NO won't, they got 4 big men. Philly, they'd like a PF. Splitter and Hibbert don't fit their needs but they might be the BPA. 

Maybe Pax can offer next year's pick to LAC, our 2nd rounders, and some cash for the 14th pick.


----------



## McBulls

From what I've seen and read there are three guys besides Oden who can guard 7 footers and rebound:

Hibbert, Splitter and Noah. Hawes is big enough, but is not reported to be a very good defender or rebounder -- if that is true forget him. Fortunately at least one of those players will be available at the 9th pick. 

My favorite is Noah, who deserves more than a little credit for Horford's current notoriety. He's been compared to Varejo, which seems fair. I'd love to have Varejo on the Bulls.


----------



## Wynn

McBulls said:


> From what I've seen and read there are three guys besides Oden who can guard 7 footers and rebound:
> 
> Hibbert, Splitter and Noah. Hawes is big enough, but is not reported to be a very good defender or rebounder -- if that is true forget him. Fortunately at least one of those players will be available at the 9th pick.
> 
> My favorite is Noah, who deserves more than a little credit for Horford's current notoriety. He's been compared to Varejo, which seems fair. I'd love to have Varejo on the Bulls.


I personally can't stand Noah..... he annoys the crap out of me. I would love, however, if we could land Horford. I'd be a very happy Bull fan if we were able to make Big Al a member of the Bull this summer. Why isn't he on the "defend 7 footers and rebound" list? Seems like he was the one actually doing this for Florida, not Noah.


----------



## darlets

McBulls said:


> The Bulls just crushed a team that featured one of the greatest low post players of all time.
> Golden State just thumped the team that had the best low post scorer in the NBA.
> New Jersey just beat a Toronto team that had a much better low post game.
> Detroit crushed a team that arguably has the best low post player in the eastern conference.
> Phoenix will most likely beat a San Antonio team in the next round that has the best remaining low post player in the playoffs.
> 
> The lottery is crowded with teams that have effective low post scorers.
> 
> Winning basketball in the NBA requires quickness, great outside shooting, rebounding and dedication to team defense. Low post scoring is not on this list.
> 
> The Bulls can satisfy their low-post scoring lust by drafting Glen Davis in the second round.


I'm really beginning to come around on this. I think Paxson will pick the best big available. He'll only pick Hawes if the think his the best big left. 

I think we need someone LIKE a fit Mike Sweetney to bring off the bench. To give us that option. 

If Paxson uses all his picks, I think he'll do
9th pick Best big available
2nd round picks:
one centre.
one low post threat. 
With the two second rounders you're realistically looking for guys that can contribute 5 minutes in favourable situation.


----------



## Nu_Omega

Wynn said:


> I personally can't stand Noah..... he annoys the crap out of me. I would love, however, if we could land Horford. I'd be a very happy Bull fan if we were able to make Big Al a member of the Bull this summer. Why isn't he on the "defend 7 footers and rebound" list? Seems like he was the one actually doing this for Florida, not Noah.


Horford is pretty unlikely and i wouldn't mind having either Hibbert or Hawes but lately i've been having this hunch that Pax might actually select Noah given his draft history of picking rooks from successful college teams. (Kirk/Kansas, Deng and Duhon/Duke, BG/UConn) Ouch...


----------



## lupa_bulls

I think Pax won't keep player he drafts at #9 unless he couldn't find good trade. We don't need more rookies.

My 2 cents: he'll trade #9, Nocioni (s&t)& Khryapa to Orlando for Darko Milicic (s&t), rights to Fran Vazquez and JJ Redick. This trade would go down only if Milicic is signed to reasonable contract, let's say 4yrs/32mil. at best. Noc would be resigned for 4yrs/28mil., so it works financially.
JJ Redick must be in this trade because we will need instant scoring from the bench after Noc leaves, and Vazquez we can keep another year or two overseas before bringing him in.


----------



## theanimal23

Don't want to start a new thread, but posted this on another board over the talk that our solutions will be solved by the 9th pick of the draft. I do not agree.

A serviceable center is going to do jack. 

Serviceable Centers in the league:
Aldridge
Biedrins
Kwame
Bynum
Tyson
Eddy
Dalembert
Dampier
Diop
Elson
Foster
Nene
Z?
Kaman
Magloire
Brad Miller
Nazr
Rasho
Stromile
Wilcox

I would call them Serviceable centers. Now we had 2 of them in the past.

How many of these "serviceable" centers you could put on our team would leap us into contending status? I'm sorry no one does it for me.
Sure would I like a Nene-lite on this team? Yeah, he's not a bad player. But he isn't going to be THE player that gives us that jump.

We have nothing to trade. Core isn't going. We don't have any expirings.

Hawes -- You can talk about all you want. But if the kid had more serious game, he'd be higher in mock drafts. Lets not use the Eddy Curry excuse that he had Tyson Chandler (John Brockman) rebounding for him. Lets not ingore his D in a more uptempo and physical NBA.

Hibbert - Stiff. He's tall. Don't fall in love with his height.

Noah - Joke right?

Tiago - Ok. Serviceable. You got it.

Unless Tyrus becomes that answer, we won't find a TWO way IMPACT player that we are hoping for unless we luck into the top 3. Otherwise rest your hope on internal development.


----------



## JeremyB0001

rosenthall said:


> I would say that having skill at something and being effective at that same thing are entirely different and people tend to confuse them regularly. Like I said, Hawes obviously has a very natural offensive ability that can't be taught, but I don't think he'll be able to use it for the foreseeable future, which largely negates the usefulness of his skill. And the cost of allowing him to get comfortable to the NBA game will be pretty steep on a team that will be competing for the ECF next year, so like you said, I think the answer of whether or not he will be able to play a lot next year is pretty clear, unless he's a lot more NBA ready with his weakness than I'm giving him credit for.
> 
> And I should probably point out that I'm not against Spencer Hawes. I'd probably be fine if we picked him at #9, but I don't agree with how a lot of people are forecasting what his impact will be on this team, and the ease with which he'll integrate himself into what we do.


I'm still not sure I disagree with you at all. I'm just saying if you had the pick the best back to the basket/post moves scorer at the NBA level next season, who would you choose: Hawes, Ben Wallace, P.J. Brown, Sweetney, or Tyrus? I think that Hawes wins easily even if the skill is largely negated because it's a skill none of the other guys have to begin with. They might be able to score in the paint more but I don't think any of them can develop the post moves Hawes has in one offseason.


----------



## MikeDC

If Noah drops to us, I'd be pretty A-OK with that.

I'm pretty skeptical of Hawes being much help. I think I'd rather trade up, either a little to get a guy like Noah or more to get a guy like Horford. Or just go BPA even if it's Brewer. 

Trading down and getting a couple picks wouldn't be the end of the world either. Suppose we could trade down with a team that has a couple picks or we simply buy one. The Sixers, Pistons and Suns have multiple lower picks. The Suns among other teams will maybe want to sell them off for futures. 

Why? Because there are several guys who look to go later who could go later - Splitter, Smith, McRoberts, Hawes (if he falls), Tomic, Gray, to name a few, that look like they have a chance to become quality players.

The other day Brewer made me think of how the Nets got Richard Jefferson and Jason Collins by trading the rights to Eddie Griffin. That's worth considering. If Brewer can be a difference-maker like Jefferson, pick him and then buy or pick up a "serviceable" player through other means.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

I definitely want no part of Noah. As Wynn said, he annoys the crap out of me too. Yi Dingaling is the other guy I really don't want. I could handle everyone else I've seen associated with us as our possible pick. It'd be nice if we could jump to #1, and the Hawks would get #2, so the damn tanking Celtics and Grizz don't get Oden or Durant.

As for Hawes, I still think that he'd be the 4th best choice for us, even if he's not a great rebounder or defender, simply because he gives us another scorer, that isn't a jump shooter. Of course my top 3 are Oden, Durant and Brandan Wright, probably in that order. Horford, Conley and Brewer (in no particular order) would round out my top 7.


----------



## SPIN DOCTOR

Noah personality-wise is very annoying.

But as a player I see him as more skilled version of Tyson Chandler, I would just fine with him as our pick if he falls. He will not be a big scorer, but will make defensive stops down low that we are seriously lacking today. His flexability to play either the 4 or 5 is also an advantage.

Hibbert is still my 1st choice at 9 if he is there. I would also like to move up to the early part of the 2nd round and select Herbert Hill of Providence. I feel that he is going to have a long career in the league, nothing spectacular but another very solid big man that can play either the 4 or 5.


----------



## darlets

SPIN DOCTOR said:


> Noah personality-wise is very annoying.
> 
> But as a player I see him as more skilled version of Tyson Chandler, I would just fine with him as our pick if he falls. He will not be a big scorer, but will make defensive stops down low that we are seriously lacking today. His flexability to play either the 4 or 5 is also an advantage.
> 
> Hibbert is still my 1st choice at 9 if he is there. I would also like to move up to the early part of the 2nd round and select Herbert Hill of Providence. I feel that he is going to have a long career in the league, nothing spectacular but another very solid big man that can play either the 4 or 5.


I'd take Noah at 9, don't think he'll go that low though. He would have help in the N.J game when some fairly average bigs Boone and someone else killed us.

He also can catch and finish well and catch and drive. He just can't shoot. Sticking him in the high post and have bigger guys back off him because of his ability to put the ball on the floor lets him take advantage of his passing ability. The 4/5 thing would just add to our defensive flexibility.

In general I'm all for doing a two for one deal with our second rounders. Don't know enough about the guys available around the 30th pick. But any solid big added to our roster would be good.

As far as his personality goes, as long as they're interviewing him they're leaving TT alone.


----------



## giusd

The Bulls NEED a big man bad and he needs to play with his back to the basket and defend the post, period. I see three players who can do that in the order of who will likely come off the draft board first. Bredon Wright, Hibbert, and Hawes. Paxson imho opinion will do what it takes to get either Hibbert or Wright. The only team that really needs a center after the first 4 picks or so (by recond for now) is CHA and we may need to try to trade with Minny to get a big man before CHA takes either Wrigth or Hibbert.

david


----------



## DaBabyBullz

I think that Wright goes #3, so do you think Pax would try to trade clear up to #3 Giusd?


----------



## giusd

I dont think Wright is going to go number 3. Yi and Horford with likely go 4 or 5. And i have heard Brewer is a lock for the top 5 so right now Wright is still on the board at number 7 imho. And Coley could easily be a top 7 pick as well. so a couple of big men will drop and i think Hibbert and Wright could be there at 8 or 9. And Minny will be taking a swing player so perhaps we could trade up and at 7 get Wright.

david


----------



## The ROY

giusd said:


> Minny will be taking a swing player
> david


I wouldn't put money on that at ALL

where's your proof bud?

Mike Conley Jr. would look like a STUD playing with KG & Foye. 

My bet is, they're going big.


----------



## giusd

Minny is not going big. They have nothing at SF and PG is also a hugh question mark. I could see them taking Conley at PG or Green or Brewer for a SF. 

david


----------



## step

> Minny is not going big.


Yes, looking for Garnett's replacement in probably the most big laden draft in history would be a silly thing to do.


----------



## charlietyra

step said:


> Yes, looking for Garnett's replacement in probably the most big laden draft in history would be a silly thing to do.


Exactly.


----------



## theanimal23

Minny would go big if Horford or Wright is available. Otherwise look for them to get Brewer, Green, or J. Wright.


----------



## The ROY

giusd said:


> Minny is not going big. They have nothing at SF and PG is also a hugh question mark. I could see them taking Conley at PG or Green or Brewer for a SF.
> 
> david


hmmm, let's think about this shall we

Garnett maybe GONE

+

They have ZERO frontcourt depth or help BESIDES Kevin Garnett

nah, they have no reason to go big...you're right

Randy Foye, Rashad Mccants, Ricky Davis, etc.

c'mon man, they got guards and scorer's...do they need a true PG? YES, what about a SF like Brewer or Wright? yep BUT they could also go big, which shouldn't be out of the question for that team what-so-ever. They need help ALL over the board.


----------



## giusd

Two words Trenton Hassell. End of story. He is the worst starting SF in the nba. Ricky David please he was benched at the end of the game the last 1/4 of the season. Mark blout and KG is a solid big man game. Minny goes sf.

d\


----------



## JeremyB0001

The TWolves only have two good pieces and they can probably both play multiple positions so they're in a pretty good situation to go best player available, especially since they need to win now.


----------



## DaBabyBullz

The real question with the Wolves is if Garnett will be there or not. Chances are, he's gone after the next season, so it'd be REALLY dumb not to trade him if they can find a reasonable trading partner (I PRAY it's NOT us!). If they're going to trade KG, his replacement makes the most sense. IF they are going to try and win next season with KG, then they need to draft a complimentary player to facilitate winning NOW, not rebuilding, which is what a big would be most likely (rebuilding). 

SO, what are they going to do? Win now, which would imply as Giusd said, drafting a true PG like Conley or a wing player, in an attempt to appease Garnett and make him not void his contract after the season? Will they plan for his departure after the season and draft a guy like Brandan Wright to replace him? OR, will they trade him and have 2 high picks to work with, where they could take BOTH Wright and Conley? (just using those 2 as examples, throw in w/e players at their positions you can think of) EX: Conley/Brewer or Wright/Hawes/Noah/Horford/Hibbert, etc.


----------



## McBulls

DaBabyBullz said:


> The real question with the Wolves is if Garnett will be there or not. Chances are, he's gone after the next season, so it'd be REALLY dumb not to trade him if they can find a reasonable trading partner (I PRAY it's NOT us!). If they're going to trade KG, his replacement makes the most sense. IF they are going to try and win next season with KG, then they need to draft a complimentary player to facilitate winning NOW, not rebuilding, which is what a big would be most likely (rebuilding).
> 
> SO, what are they going to do? Win now, which would imply as Giusd said, drafting a true PG like Conley or a wing player, in an attempt to appease Garnett and make him not void his contract after the season? Will they plan for his departure after the season and draft a guy like Brandan Wright to replace him? OR, will they trade him and have 2 high picks to work with, where they could take BOTH Wright and Conley? (just using those 2 as examples, throw in w/e players at their positions you can think of) EX: Conley/Brewer or Wright/Hawes/Noah/Horford/Hibbert, etc.


If Garnett is going to be traded, then LA is the most likely target.

Odom, Bynum, #1 pick + filler for Garnett.


----------



## step

> IF they are going to try and win next season with KG, then they need to draft a complimentary player to facilitate winning NOW, not rebuilding, which is what a big would be most likely (rebuilding).


If immediate success is the plan, the pick would be shipped off for a veteran.


----------



## theanimal23

step said:


> If immediate success is the plan, the pick would be shipped off for a veteran.


No one is going to want the long term contracts Minny has to make any deal happen.

Look for Minny to take Brewer if available. Minny has a lot invested in guards: McCants, Foye, Mike James, Jaric, Hassel. Hassel might play some 3 with Ricky Davis, and although it is crowded to take Brewer, he would be the BPA here. 

If they go Big Man, look for them to take Wright or Horford if available, otherwise Hibbert. Anyone of those guys should get PT if Mark Blount and whoever they have still does.


----------



## theanimal23

Btw, someone should make an official Lottery Day 'Game' Thread on May 22nd.


----------



## giusd

Minny will never trade KG and KG is making like what 20 million a year. His contract was done before the current salary cap rules. So he would have to take like a 10 million dollar a year salary cut if he goes FA. On a five year contract that is 50 million dollars. KG is going to finish his career in Minny because they want three lotto pick players for KG and no one will give that. It would be like our trading KH, BG, and Deng for KG. We will never do this and Minny will not trade KG for less. And Minny is needs either a SF or PG and needs to move Hassell out of the starting line up and i say they take Brewer or Green but if Brewer is gone i would take Conley.

david


----------



## theanimal23

If the Bucks get Oden, would anyone here do #9, Duhon, and Viktor for Bogut? In the long-run, the Bucks wouldn't want to that much cash between Charlie V, Bogut, and Oden who will definitely get the Max.


----------



## JeremyB0001

Sure. He's not all that good but a solid center is hard to come by and he's young. I'm not so sure the Bucks would be willing to swap a guy they took #1 for a #9 pick just a couple years later though, even if they did land Oden.


----------



## yodurk

JeremyB0001 said:


> Sure. He's not all that good but a solid center is hard to come by and he's young. I'm not so sure the Bucks would be willing to swap a guy they took #1 for a #9 pick just a couple years later though, even if they did land Oden.


I could see the Bucks trying to pull a twin towers experiment by playing Bogut/Oden next to each other. Bogut is pretty good in the high post offensively. You could argue they'd be slow defensively, but two 7-footers (one of which is a mad shotblocker) could be scary. Don't think I'd want to face them.


----------



## darlets

yodurk said:


> I could see the Bucks trying to pull a twin towers experiment by playing Bogut/Oden next to each other. Bogut is pretty good in the high post offensively. You could argue they'd be slow defensively, but two 7-footers (one of which is a mad shotblocker) could be scary. Don't think I'd want to face them.


The other thing on that is you can always have a quality centre on the court at all times. They really only have to coexist for 24 minutes a game

Oden 36/ Bogut 12 At centre
24 Bogut/ other PF 24

Most teams struggle to field a quality centre for 30 minutes a game, what Oden or Bogut would do to a back up centre a few years down the track wouldn't be pretty.


----------



## JeremyB0001

darlets said:


> Most teams struggle to field a quality centre for 30 minutes a game, what Oden or Bogut would do to a back up centre a few years down the track wouldn't be pretty.


Hehe. I don't think you'd have to wait at all. They're both above average starting centers right now.


----------



## darlets

JeremyB0001 said:


> Hehe. I don't think you'd have to wait at all. They're both above average starting centers right now.


Sad, but true. 

Oden/ Thomas / Deng front court just rolls off the tongue too. :yay:


----------



## theanimal23

Who do you guys like in the 2nd round? I hope Pax can find a gem who can be a nice rotation player like Duhon.

I believe we only have one pick as we give up a 2nd rounder to San Antonio this year and then to Portland next year.


----------



## step

> I believe we only have one pick as we give up a 2nd rounder to San Antonio this year and then to Portland next year.


We still have two second rounders.

Ones listed for the second round atm that I find interesting:
Arron Afflalo
Petteri Koponen
Herbert Hill
Demetris Nichols
Derrick Byars
Nick Fazekas


----------



## Wynn

theanimal23 said:


> Who do you guys like in the 2nd round? I hope Pax can find a gem who can be a nice rotation player like Duhon.
> 
> I believe we only have one pick as we give up a 2nd rounder to San Antonio this year and then to Portland next year.


The best big body we can find. Also hopefully we can talk PJ into one more year. With Sweets and Malik hitting the road, and if PJ retires, that leaves us with Tyrus and Big Ben manning the paint. Hopefully we'll look at someone MLE and also grab a big kid in the second round in addition to our draft pick.

Big Ben
Tyrus
PJ (one more year)
First Rounder
MLE
Second Rounder

to go with:

Kirk
Li'l Ben
Duhon
Thabo
Deng
Nocioni
Griffin


----------



## darlets

theanimal23 said:


> Who do you guys like in the 2nd round? I hope Pax can find a gem who can be a nice rotation player like Duhon.
> 
> I believe we only have one pick as we give up a 2nd rounder to San Antonio this year and then to Portland next year.


A gem in the second round is a good rotation player like you said. So it pays to bear in mind, you're really hoping to get a guy that has one or two skills at a N.B.A level. At the top of the second round you occasionally get studs.

Given where we're picking I'll go this two if we have both picks, 49 and 51.

Jermareo Davidson

Glen Davis

you're really hoping one of them develops into a contributer.


----------



## theanimal23

I have not seen much of Hawes, but read good things. Let me put it this way, if he can hit a J soon like PJ and has the ability to score inside better than a one-legged CWebb eventually, then thats all we are missing.

Darlets, I really like to take a gamble on Big Baby in the 2nd if there are no better options. There was a clip of him on Espn Motion the other day. He is 6'9" 290lbs.

I'm hoping we can trade into the late first. Maybe take a gamble on McRoberts, who although for his lack of fire, he is skilled.


----------



## darlets

theanimal23 said:


> I'm hoping we can trade into the late first. Maybe take a gamble on McRoberts, who although for his lack of fire, he is skilled.


Why do you want McRoberts? Do you want Tyrus to have a soul to steal in practice??? 

Just kidding. The idea of moving up I'm all for. Someone mention we only have one second rounder though.


----------



## theanimal23

I am a Duke fan, and the one gripe I have about McRoberts is his 'fire'. There is no doubt he is skilled. But if we can use some cash and 2nd rounders to maybe grab somethign in the 20s, then I'm for a gamble. He is skilled though.


----------



## darlets

Just using nbadraft as a guide
they have
20. 
Miami Tiago Splitter 6-11 240 PF Brazil 1985 
21. 
*Philadelphia Josh McRoberts 6-10 240 PF Duke So. 
23. 
*New York Jason Smith 7-0 240 PF Colorado St. Jr.

and

Kyle Visser 6-11 250 C Wake Forest Sr.
Aaron Gray 7-1 280 C Pittsburgh Sr.

at the end of the first start of the second.

Is there any f.a we might pick up?

I don't see the second pick/s getting anyone that's likely to see any serious court time next year but be nice to hopefully get someone that can be solid long term.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

I can't read all of this article because I've given up my ESPN Insider subscription, but here is part of an article and some video of Yi Jianlian. I don't think he's an ideal fit for the Bulls, but I also think we could use a player that big and athletic.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draf...der/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=Yi


----------



## mw2889

I'm most fascinated with Thad Young and Yi JianLian. Both guys seem like they are willing to work hard to get better, so I don't see why Pax won't at least consider one of them.


----------



## fl_flash

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I can't read all of this article because I've given up my ESPN Insider subscription, but here is part of an article and some video of Yi Jianlian. I don't think he's an ideal fit for the Bulls, but I also think we could use a player that big and athletic.
> 
> http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draf...der/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=Yi


Yi's my guy. I stated that at least a month ago and I'm not changing my mind. i don't think he'll be on the board at #9, but I think he'd fit in pretty well here. He's not; and he'll never really be, a back-to-the-basket post player. What he can do is shoot a pretty indefensable fade-away along with being pretty damned quick off the dribble. He'll be a matchup nightmare for just about any PF or C not named Garnett. He's option #1

My second choice would be Hawes. More of a traditional low post player who would command a double-team.

Yi wouldd open the floor because you'd have to bring a big away from the basket which would make room for dribble penetration and cutters. Hawes would open the floor more for spot up shooters when he gets doubled in the post. Both guys, IMO, would be really nice options on the pick and roll or pick and pop. I just like Yi's skillset a little bit more than Hawes.


----------



## badfish

fl_flash said:


> Yi's my guy. I stated that at least a month ago and I'm not changing my mind. i don't think he'll be on the board at #9, but I think he'd fit in pretty well here. He's not; and he'll never really be, a back-to-the-basket post player. What he can do is shoot a pretty indefensable fade-away along with being pretty damned quick off the dribble. He'll be a matchup nightmare for just about any PF or C not named Garnett. He's option #1
> 
> My second choice would be Hawes. More of a traditional low post player who would command a double-team.
> 
> Yi wouldd open the floor because you'd have to bring a big away from the basket which would make room for dribble penetration and cutters. Hawes would open the floor more for spot up shooters when he gets doubled in the post. Both guys, IMO, would be really nice options on the pick and roll or pick and pop. I just like Yi's skillset a little bit more than Hawes.


Frankly, Florida Flash, I'm getting closer to Yi as my guy as well (outside of Durant and Oden of course). I like our fast-paced style and I'd like a guy that can thrive at that pace. I see Yi as similar to Okur, but with the ability to put the ball on the floor and slash to the hoop. I guess that's closer to Nowitzki, but that's prolly too generous of a comparison.

Also, I don't see why he couldn't develop a passable game in the low post. He's certainly got the height, length, coordination and lower body strength to make it happen. The last thing I want to do is get somebody that has a post game but slows down our pace because he can't run the floor.


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## RoRo

fl_flash said:


> Yi's my guy. I stated that at least a month ago and I'm not changing my mind. i don't think he'll be on the board at #9, but I think he'd fit in pretty well here. He's not; and he'll never really be, a back-to-the-basket post player. What he can do is shoot a pretty indefensable fade-away along with being pretty damned quick off the dribble. He'll be a matchup nightmare for just about any PF or C not named Garnett. He's option #1
> 
> My second choice would be Hawes. More of a traditional low post player who would command a double-team.
> 
> Yi wouldd open the floor because you'd have to bring a big away from the basket which would make room for dribble penetration and cutters. Hawes would open the floor more for spot up shooters when he gets doubled in the post. Both guys, IMO, would be really nice options on the pick and roll or pick and pop. I just like Yi's skillset a little bit more than Hawes.


those two are up on my list as well.


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## theanimal23

I'm on the Yi Bandwagon. Whatever that means. He is intriguing, so sign me up. No one really appeals to me after the top 3. I'd go with Hawes or Yi.


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## theanimal23

If Yi and Hawes are both there at 9, I want Yi. Not your prototypical center, but man we would cause havoc with him and Tyrus up front. Yi a slightly more atheltic Bargs? I'lll take that. In that lil vid on ESPN, he has some nice fundamentals (hooks with both hands).


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## giusd

The bulls need a center both on offensive and on defensive. We have a very solid guard rotation next year of KH, BG, and thabo (du gettng less minutes as the season goes on). Den and noci at SF with noci playing a little PF if neccessary and both TT and big ben can play PF with Ben playing a Center as well. But we must have a Center, period.

One of two centers will be there at 9. hawes ro Hibbert and one or the other will be a bull next season. It really is a no brainer. I guess pax could trade up and try to get Wright who is cleary big enough to play center but we would need to trade into 5 to do that since after Oden and Durant I think Yi and Horford at the next two players off the board. So Brewer and Wright are next and if we want Wright i think we need 5 depending on the lotto.

david


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## JeremyB0001

I don't think Yi is a great fit but I'd take him just based on the best player available. The issue seems moot though; I doubt he'll be on the board at 9.


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## darlets

Noah article on Draftexpress


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## yodurk

Aside from re-siging/extending our main guys, I would say our off-season plan is a short one:

1) Draft the best 6'11+ player available
2) Sign (and maybe trade for) a veteran big man who supplements our roster. I assume PJ Brown isn't coming back.

I really think we have a great rotation other than these holes. Our wing players got schooled by maybe the best perimeter unit in the league, but they aren't far behind. Another year of experience and playing together could make them a contender NEXT YEAR. With that goal in mind, I have a liking for Roy Hibbert since he has most of what we need (huge size, some offensive skill, and NBA ready). I only worry about his bust potential, i.e. lack of speed and conditioning.


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## darlets

giusd said:


> The bulls need a center both on offensive and on defensive. We have a very solid guard rotation next year of KH, BG, and thabo (du gettng less minutes as the season goes on). Den and noci at SF with noci playing a little PF if neccessary and both TT and big ben can play PF with Ben playing a Center as well. But we must have a Center, period.


It is rather glaring when you say it like that.

PG Kirk/Duhon
SG Kirk/Gordon/Thabo
SF Deng/Noc/Thabo/Viktor
PF TT/Wallace/Noc
C Wallace ->>>Insert draft pick here <<<-

My other concern is the last N.J game where Boone and Nachbar went 10/13 for 30 points. Noah would be a nice addition for our team and would be another option on D. 

He can get up and down the floor and is a big, long defender, can handle the ball and run the break. His a very unique player.



giusd said:


> One of two centers will be there at 9. hawes ro Hibbert and one or the other will be a bull next season. It really is a no brainer. I guess pax could trade up and try to get Wright who is cleary big enough to play center but we would need to trade into 5 to do that since after Oden and Durant I think Yi and Horford at the next two players off the board. So Brewer and Wright are next and if we want Wright i think we need 5 depending on the lotto.


If you had to choose between Noah, Hawes and Hibbert who would you take?????

I'd actually rank them
Noah
Hibbert
Hawes


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## darlets

yodurk said:


> Aside from re-siging/extending our main guys, I would say our off-season plan is a short one:
> 
> 1) Draft the best 6'11+ player available
> 2) Sign (and maybe trade for) a veteran big man who supplements our roster. I assume PJ Brown isn't coming back.
> 
> I really think we have a great rotation other than these holes. Our wing players got schooled by maybe the best perimeter unit in the league, but they aren't far behind. Another year of experience and playing together could make them a contender NEXT YEAR. With that goal in mind, I have a liking for Roy Hibbert since he has most of what we need (huge size, some offensive skill, and NBA ready). I only worry about his bust potential, i.e. lack of speed and conditioning.


Brown decision will happens after the draft. I expect if he thinks who we selects will help us contend (e.g a top three pick) he'll come back.

We really don't have alot of depth at C/PF and that got shown in the Detriot series.
I would like to see next year
Wallace
TT
our draft pick big
PJ
F.A big with mid level expection.


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## Wynn

darlets said:


> Brown decision will happens after the draft. I expect if he thinks who we selects will help us contend (e.g a top three pick) he'll come back.
> 
> We really don't have alot of depth at C/PF and that got shown in the Detriot series.
> I would like to see next year
> Wallace
> TT
> our draft pick big
> PJ
> F.A big with mid level expection.


I like this plan. Also, if we use our second rounders at all this year, should be for another big.... maybe a project, or a college senior with some "play now" potential while we continue to develop our younger players. With Kirk, Ben, Duhon, Thabo, Griff, Deng, and Noc I feel like we've got depth and talent at the three small positions.


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## darlets

Wynn said:


> I like this plan. Also, if we use our second rounders at all this year, should be for another big.... maybe a project, or a college senior with some "play now" potential while we continue to develop our younger players. With Kirk, Ben, Duhon, Thabo, Griff, Deng, and Noc I feel like we've got depth and talent at the three small positions.


I'd be happy to take more bigs in the second round and hope one turns out to be solid. Let them fight it out in training camp.


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## theanimal23

Who is making a Lottery thread?


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## RSP83

Wallace, Tyrus Thomas, and Noah would strengthen our defense but wouldn't do much on offense.
Wallace, Tyrus Thomas, and Hawes would give us a different dimension in our frontcourt, but we have to be patient with Hawes defense. He's not that ready.

Hibbert, I don't really have a picture on my mind what kind of player he's going to develop into.


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## darlets

RSP83 said:


> Wallace, Tyrus Thomas, and Noah would strengthen our defense but wouldn't do much on offense.
> Wallace, Tyrus Thomas, and Hawes would give us a different dimension in our frontcourt, but we have to be patient with Hawes defense. He's not that ready.
> 
> Hibbert, I don't really have a picture on my mind what kind of player he's going to develop into.


I think Noah could change our offense in two ways. Firstly his probably going to generate another two or three fast breaks a game (more steals and blocks) above what Hawes probably would generate. We really need "easy baskets" which can come in many forms. His got a good enough dribble to just rebound the ball and go too.

It was noted during the season that Wallace was generating fast breaks for us. I'm just thinking the net affect of having Noah could generate a lot of cheap points. His also a good finisher of the break and can run the break.

There's also the extra pressure our perimeter can apply because they always have two shot blockers behind them at all times.

Also he can drive to the basket, Golden State had alot of success just spreading the floor and little people drive. We could put out the line up of two guards, Noc, Deng and Noah.


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## JaffLo

No doubt NOAH is our perfect, ideal, dreamed pick (and Paxon's), unfortunately there is no way he goes beyond the top five pick. And if miraculously he is availabe at he 9th pick we could be jumping and cheering until the season starts, at least. But no, he won´t be there at 9th.


By the way, YI will be one of the biggest disappointments of the draft if he goes within the top 10. I laugh when I read all this recent buzz about him, just because he is almost (and I say almost)a 7 footer with good athletism and a J. I´ve watched him playing for China the last two summers and he is extremely soft, with a low IQ, not consistency at all in his game and always playing off Yao. Not to mention his game 5 to 5 is plain awful. Fortunately we´ve got Paxon and YI is the last player he would choose.


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## rosenthall

I have some reservations about Noah, but if we got him at 9, I think I'd take him and not think twice about it. I think he'd fit in well here, and if he can put in the work and fix his jumper, he could step right in and play 25-30 minutes a game and we wouldn't miss a beat (and probably improve). 

His style of play would mesh will with us, on both sides of the ball. And it sure would be nice to have a guy that's over 6'11 and can play worth a damn.


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## theanimal23

I really really really really really hate to think it, but I think Noah might be the best fit at 9 if we had to chooes between him, Hawes, and Hibbert. While Noah won't ever be more than a role player, I don't think he has the bust potential as the other two.

I hope Phoenix takes him.


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## The ROY

JaffLo said:


> No doubt NOAH is our perfect, ideal, dreamed pick (and Paxon's), unfortunately there is no way he goes beyond the top five pick. And if miraculously he is availabe at he 9th pick we could be jumping and cheering until the season starts, at least. But no, he won´t be there at 9th.
> 
> 
> By the way, YI will be one of the biggest disappointments of the draft if he goes within the top 10. I laugh when I read all this recent buzz about him, just because he is almost (and I say almost)a 7 footer with good athletism and a J. I´ve watched him playing for China the last two summers and he is extremely soft, with a low IQ, not consistency at all in his game and always playing off Yao. Not to mention his game 5 to 5 is plain awful. Fortunately we´ve got Paxon and YI is the last player he would choose.


There's NO way? I think you're pushing it.

Noah's draft stock has him more in the 6-10 range. He definintely isn't gonna be top 5 unless he TRUELY impresses some team. But it's pretty safe to say Brandan Wright, Al Horford, Yi & and even Corey Brewer could all be selected before him.

LOL @ Yi being the last player Paxson would choose. Um, he was in CHINA scouting him earlier this season and according to reports, came away 'very impressed' with the kid.

you're a VERY assumptive person, aren't ya?


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## DaBabyBullz

JaffLo said:


> Fortunately we´ve got Paxon and YI is the last player he would choose.


I hope and pray you're right. He's the last guy I've heard talked about in the top 10 that I'd want on my team.


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## JaffLo

The ROY said:


> There's NO way? I think you're pushing it.
> 
> Noah's draft stock has him more in the 6-10 range. He definintely isn't gonna be top 5 unless he TRUELY impresses some team. But it's pretty safe to say Brandan Wright, Al Horford, Yi & and even Corey Brewer could all be selected before him.
> 
> LOL @ Yi being the last player Paxson would choose. Um, he was in CHINA scouting him earlier this season and according to reports, came away 'very impressed' with the kid.
> 
> you're a VERY assumptive person, aren't ya?


Well, I´m sorry, you´re right, I´ve been too assumptive in the Noah stuff, but I can really tell you that all that recent buzz about YI is really incredible. In an awful (and I mean so awful that hurts) China team he could barely stand out, yes he could make a couple Js from the corner, one or two dunks and that´s all. You add that to the softness, low IQ and poor defense and I can hardly see how he can make an impression on anybody. BTW I think the draft is a poker game and nobody shows what they really think, so if it´s said that Pax came pleased with what he watched, maybe it´s just the opposite... I don´t know maybe this year he has become in an absolutely different player, the last time I saw him was last summer. I just don´t see how he can be the kind of player Pax usually likes.

What I mean about Noah is that he is being so underrated lately that the team that gets him beyond a top 5 pick is actually getting a steal in the draft. Obviously he is not a scoring matching, but has the heigh, the athletism, the proffesionalism, the IQ, the team first mentality, the maturity to help from day one,... And I think this will be brought to the table as the draft day comes and that´s why I think he will finally end in front of our pick, I hope I´m wrong.


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## theanimal23

On the latest ESPN Motion clip, they said Yi would be a great fit in Phoenix with their offense. Also mentioned Pax liking Yi, and how he and other GMs took a trip to China. I would love to see Yi's Agent push for him to land in Chicago since we are a big market if we land the 9th pick.


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## Rhyder

darlets said:


> If you had to choose between Noah, Hawes and Hibbert who would you take?????
> 
> I'd actually rank them
> Noah
> Hibbert
> Hawes


That's how I have those three ranked in a stand alone ranking as well. With Chicago's pick, I might be tempted to bite on Hibbert over Noah because a more offense oriented big makes better sense for our roster. That said, you don't want to pass on talent simply because of team needs. I think a lot will depend on the pre-draft workouts.


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## theanimal23

Pax talking about Hawes and Noah?

http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/media/video/bulls/lottery0521_16%20x%209.wmv

Right-Click and Save-As


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## The ROY

Definintely sounded as if he were referring to Noah/Splitter/Hawes types.


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## SALO

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-070522bulls,1,1132799.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines



John Paxson said:


> "I'm not committing that if we stay with our pick we'll necessarily take a big. There might be another player we want and a way to move some players we currently have to address [getting a big man]. There is so much time between now and the draft and so many things can happen. Teams' priorities can change. *Maybe you can deal with teams with financial issues*."


The bolded part is what I like to hear. A few days ago Pax said they were in a good position financially to *add* players through free agency. Meaning, we'll most likely use both the MLE and LLE. 

This new quote suggests the same thing, but it could mean buying picks (which I like) or acquiring long-term deals from another team looking to shed salary. Nick Collison from Seattle gets a mention...



> it's a safe bet Paxson will inquire on longtime Bulls favorite Nick Collison's availability now that the Sonics jumped to No. 2 and will land either Greg Oden or Kevin Durant.
> 
> Packaging the No. 9 pick with players whose contracts expire after the 2007-08 season, such as Chris Duhon and Viktor Khryapa or both, could be attractive to teams looking to trim payroll.
> 
> It's likely Paxson also will revisit talks with the Grizzlies regarding Pau Gasol now that they fell all the way from the top pick to fourth after the lottery.


Interesting that K.C. says "It's a safe bet" Pax will ask about Collison. It's like K.C. is sharing inside info from conversations with Bulls staff. I like Collison but I wouldn't touch him if we had to include the 9th pick. He just received a contract extension and he'll be making a lot more money than the 9th pick. I'd rather have Noah or Hibbert to be honest. If Seattle is willing to do a Duhon + Viktor + both our 2nd rounders I'd be all over that. Throw in cash too to seal the deal if Seattle is that desperate. 

Gasol is a pipedream since we no longer have the flexibility in terms of expiring contracts to throw at them.


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## SALO

Look who Sam Smith has us taking at 9.












> *9*. *Bulls* (from New York)
> *Julian Wright*, *Kansas*
> 
> 6-8, 220 | small forward | 20
> 
> If he could shoot, he would be No. 3. But he has a wonderful feel for the game and is a defender, a player who could fit in quickly and give the Bulls matchup advantages.
> 
> The big knock against him is his shooting, but he does just about everything else, passing, handling the ball, rebounding and running the fast break. With another 6-foot-8-inch athlete, the Bulls could play him with Tyrus Thomas and Deng. That would provide big-time matchup problems.


Interesting note on Corey Brewer...



> 8. Charlotte
> Corey Brewer, Florida
> 
> 
> 6-8, 185 | shooting guard | 21
> 
> Michael Jordan has been saying Brewer is the next Scottie Pippen—and who would know better?


That's some high praise coming from MJ. If they draft Brewer then there's a good chance they could let Gerald Wallace walk or try to arrange a sign-and-trade for him. I know getting a "big man" is a priority but Gerald is a stud. He attacks the rim and that's something we sorely lack from our perimeter players.


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## RoRo

Andy Katz' Mock
Bull pick Spencer Hawes.

draftexpress
Draft Express has us selecting Hawes as well.

nbadraft.net
in NBA Draft.net we manage to get Noah.

inside hoops
Hawes again...

fox sports
Hawes again...geeez i'm getting bored.

Ah finally something ballsy...ty SI
noah and hibbert are bad fits. don't be surprised to see Law here...lol


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## DengNabbit

rosenthall said:


> If he falls to five, I think we could possibly do something like Mike Conley, our 1st next year unprotected, Sweets or someone else of that ilk, 3 million in cash for Horford and Luke Ridnour, who ideally we could trade immediately to someone else for expiring contracts and second round picks. My heart wants to believe that we could trade up to get him without giving up anyone in our rotation or Tyrus and Thabo, but in reality I'm not sure how possible that is. If we had to bite the bullet and give up someone like Noc or Thabo, I'd have to think _really_ hard about it, but I think I might do it.


It's a scenario I like, but I don't think we go that route - the way Pax is talking. Seems like he'll trade for a vet or keep the pick.


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## MikeDC

Without further ado, here's my draft measurements spreadsheet, updated with 07 results. This shows guys over every year I have numbers for, so it lets you compare, say, Spencer Hawes to Andrew Bogut. Have fun


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## TomBoerwinkle#1

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_22303.shtml

NBA Draft: Zeke Says No Shooters For Steph
By Wendell Maxey
for HOOPSWORLD.com
Jun 12, 2007, 18:30 

With the NBA Draft now 16 days away and counting, Isiah Thomas is getting some words of wisdom about who he should grab with the Knicks 23rd overall selection.

No, James Dolan isn't offering insight. But Stephon Marbury certainly is. Marbury would like to see the Knicks team president and head coach snag a shooter come draft night according to a story in Tuesday's New York Post.

The request has apparently fallen on deaf ears.

So what exactly does Thomas believe the Knicks need?

"Everything," Thomas said following a press conference announcing an October 11th preseason exhibition game between the Knicks and European powerhouse Maccabi Elite Tel Aviv at Madison Square Garden.

"We need a lot of things. We'll try to get the things we need as opposed to looking at who the specific best player is on the board in this draft. There are certain things we need. We could pass on the best player to get the thing we need."

Hence the "everything" mantra from Zeke.

Marbury on the other hand said he'd like to see a "Steve Kerr" or "Glen Rice" in the backcourt "to get somebody to shoot the ball and keep people honest". One thing is for sure to Thomas with Marbury floating those names out there.

"There's no Allan Houston in this draft". There's no shooters like him in the draft. That's a different kind when you are talking about shooting the basketball."

Although the Knicks primarily need to add a low post presence to do the dirty work Eddy Curry won't, Thomas has said before another concern is perimeter shooting who can bring defense too. Knowing this, it is hard to argue against Marbury's mock draft selection. However Marbury and Thomas alike must realize the reality of the Knicks demise from last season and the possibilities this year's offseason holds.

Injuries to two key shooters wrecked New York last year. They finished 33-49 and well out of the playoff picture due to Jamal Crawford and Quentin Richardson being sidelined for the second half of the season.

Crawford fractured his right ankle and Richardson underwent back surgery. Thus Thomas and even Marbury were without one of their leading scorers (Crawford) and their best backcourt defender (Richardson), as well as two true talent who could pull from the perimeter.

And no, Steve Francis and Mardy Collins do not factor into the equation. Francis is Shane "The Dribbling Machine" in disguise and as Marbury said of Collins last season, "he couldn't throw it in the ocean". It's safe to say neither fit the mold Marbury desires. But Crawford and Richardson certainly do. All they need is a clean bill of health next season. So the mantra for the Knicks holds true: Drafting a low post player really is the answer for the Knicks on June 28th.

Sorry Steph. But free agency is where you and the Knicks will get your shooter. A prominent list of available players is far more appealing that snagging a kid off campus anyway. Consider the

Seattle's Rashard Lewis is a free agent and would be ideal for New York. Steve Blake from Denver could be "Steve Kerr" and burry shots from Broadway. Milwaukee's Mo Williams could light up MSG in a hurry. Even Morris Peterson is someone Thomas is familiar with from his Toronto days and could get a call from Zeke.

Free agent negotiations begin July 1st and July 11th is the earliest free agents can officially sign their contracts.

Circle that date Mr. Marbury. That is when your shooter arrives.


----------

