# Is Sweetney overrated?



## BigC (Sep 28, 2004)

Many Knick fans feel that Sweetney can be a top pf in the league. I feel he is a good player that can be better not great. What are your feelings on Sweetney?


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

*vERY GOOD..*

I believe Sweetney has all the tools to be very good. If he was a few inches taller he could be on of the best centers in the league. As it is, he will be a more than solid PF. He needs time. Don't forget, he came out a year early and has not really had the PT he would get on a lottery team.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

I recently started recording player ages by position. I should have done it long ago. 

Other PFs in Sweetney's age range, whom I have listed so far (with player rating in parenthasize)

Age 25
Elton Brand (88)

Age 24
Josh Davis (X)

Age 23
Zach Randolph (84)
Drew Gooden (77)
Jackson Vroman (61)

Age 22
Amare Stoudemire (85)
Emeka Okafor (77)
Tyson Chandler (76)
Anderson Varejao (74)
Michael Sweetney (73)
Chris Wilcox (72)

Age 21
Jamal Sampson (X)

Age 20
Al Jefferson (73)

Age 19
Maciej Lampe (67)


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## PROUD AMERICAN17 (Jan 16, 2005)

Over rated by Knicks fans? Yes. Over rated league wide? NO


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> I recently started recording player ages by position. I should have done it long ago.
> 
> Other PFs in Sweetney's age range, whom I have listed so far (with player rating in parenthasize)
> ...


Player ratings? From?

-Petey


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## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

From Poetry himself I would imagine.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

> Originally posted by <b>PROUD AMERICAN17</b>!
> Over rated by Knicks fans? Yes. Over rated league wide? NO


I agree. There are some guys who have cult followings but are still relatively unknown outside of those people. Sweetney is pretty unknown, and has decent skills. Knicks fans overrate him a little bit, he won't be a star, but he will still be better than most NBA fans would think right now. It just depends who you ask.


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

he can be a 15 and 11 guy this year given the minutes. no doubt in my mind. hes a tenacious rebounder, and can score on anybody in the post, taller players, stronger players, whoever.

everytime he comes in the game he makes a nice post move and grabs a bunch of boards, but we still start Freeway...Kurt will work better alongside Mike cause he compliments his power post game more, he opens up the paint for sweets with his mid range shot. Nazr....well he just sucks. And his one inch on kurt wont change anything at the center position


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## townknave (Jun 28, 2003)

Could we please not all start calling him Freeway? We have plenty of other crappy players more deserving of disparaging nicknames than him.

Petey, Rashidi's player ratings are from ESPN NBA 2k5, a video game. Apparently our guys' potential and value are dictated by their video game ratings, not the other way around...


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## JoeT020 (Jan 24, 2005)

Wow, I figured they were Yahoo Fantasy Ratings and I thought that was bad. Video game ratings? Wow. Just wow.


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## SPIN DOCTOR (Oct 31, 2002)

I think Sweetney ceiling is similar to Oakleys, a very good role player that does the little things that contribute to W's.

He needs p/t, to see if he can stay out of foul trouble first. Then you can see what you have. League-wide he has no reputation yet, its still a local thing.


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## JoeT020 (Jan 24, 2005)

Sweetney is no role player. He already can create his own shot consistently in the post. Anyone who creates their own shot consistently is definitely not a role player in my book. The guy is in his second year in the league and he's already developing into a dominant force in the post. His defense isn't great, but it's certainly not bad. He's good on the boards, and he's even developing a bit of an outside shot. If he can develop a solid mid-range shot, the guy would be the protoype inside-out PF that is thriving so well around the league right now.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Sweetney is no role player. He already can create his own shot consistently in the post. Anyone who creates their own shot consistently is definitely not a role player in my book. The guy is in his second year in the league and he's already developing into a dominant force in the post. His defense isn't great, but it's certainly not bad. He's good on the boards, and he's even developing a bit of an outside shot. If he can develop a solid mid-range shot, the guy would be the protoype inside-out PF that is thriving so well around the league right now.


So what exactly makes Sweetney any better than Tyson Chandler or Chris Wilcox? Care to share?



> Petey, Rashidi's player ratings are from ESPN NBA 2k5, a video game. Apparently our guys' potential and value are dictated by their video game ratings, not the other way around...


Right now, Sweetney is a 73. That's not to say that he won't be an 80 in 2 years. However, he certainly has a ways to go. 

I posted it by age, since age is an indicator on potential. There are other players in the league who are just as young as Sweetney and as good, if not better.

I updated the list a bit.

Age 25
*Elton Brand (88)*
Ryan Humphrey (65)

Age 24
*Pau Gasol (86)
Troy Murphy (77)*
Matt Bonner (71)
Josh Davis (X)

Age 23
*Zach Randolph (84)
Drew Gooden (77)*
Jackson Vroman (61)
Pape Sow (X)

Age 22
*Amare Stoudemire (85)
Emeka Okafor (77)
Tyson Chandler (76)*
Eddie Griffin (75)
Anderson Varejao (74)
Michael Sweetney (73)
Chris Wilcox (72)

Age 21
Jamal Sampson (X)

Age 20
*Chris Bosh (78)*
Al Jefferson (73)

Age 19
Maciej Lampe (67)

Those are the players within 3 years of age of Sweetney and at least 3 points better.



> Video game ratings? Wow. Just wow.


If you'd care to evaluate those player's talents, then be my guest. You can view my guide here.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/game/920671.html

I've been rating players for three years.

Michael Sweetney
Overall 73
Close 84
Med 65
3pt 50
FT 76
Layup 70
Dunk 70
Handle 60
Pass 50
PostOff 80
PostDef 70
Block 75
Steal 60
RebOff 85
RebDef 80
Speed 65
Stam 85
Dur 75
DefAwr 70
OffAwr 70

Ratings are from 50-99.

If you'd care to disagree somewhere, then be my guest.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> If he can develop a solid mid-range shot, the guy would be the protoype inside-out PF that is thriving so well around the league right now.


Sweetney needs to develop a lot more than a solid mid-range shot. A big reason why PFs with solid mid-range shots are good is because they are TALL and thus the shot is harder to block. Sweetney is undersized. He is not going to get off shots with a Kurt Thomas in his face like KG or Dirk can. He doesn't have the handle or speed to get around players who contest that jumper either.

Let's name off some of those thriving PFs.

Duncan: Amazing defender, can play center, best post offense in league, good passer

Garnett: Amazing defender, can play any position, great passer, great post offense, good handle, 3pt range

Jermaine: Great defender, can play center, great post offense, good handle

Webber: Great post offense, great passer, good handle

Dirk: Simply unguardable with his range, size, and handle. Deep 3pt range.

Brand: A better defender and more athletic and quicker than Sweetney will ever be.

Amare: Athleticism and quickness.

Gasol: Good defender, passer, handle, plays center

Rasheed: Good defender, passer, handle, 3pt range

Randolph: good post offense, some handle. Poor defender, so a bigger (and thus more effective) version of Sweetney

Jamison: good post offense, some handle, 3pt range

Odom: great handle and passing, athletic, 3pt range

Walker: great handle and passing, 3pt range

Sweetney will never have a shot as good as these guys, and these guys also have more skills than he does.

Sweetney at his maximum ceiling of potential is Carlos Boozer. Not bad, but not all-star caliber.


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## townknave (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> Randolph: good post offense, some handle. Poor defender, so a bigger (and thus more effective) version of Sweetney


Randolph is 1 inch taller than Sweetney and at least 20 pounds lighter. How is he bigger? He's certainly not more athletic, and Sweetney at least can block the occasional shot. How does Sweetney not have the potential to be better than Zach? I'd take Sweetney over Zach right now, to be honest.

Some of your other examples, like Antoine Walker, hardly inspire envy.

It's nice to have a PF who can dribble and 3 point range is cute, but how many can score in the post as frequently and efficiently as Sweetney, while getting to the line as often? Not all that many, even this early in Sweetney's career. 

It's hardly earth shattering to say he'll never amount to as much as Garnett or Duncan, but Zach Randolph and Antoine Walker? Come on.

Your player ratings look pretty, but when it comes to discussion of ACTUAL basketball, forgive me when I say a bunch of arbitrary numbers from a video game that does not even represent NBA basektball particularly well are not incredibly convinving.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

That is your guide? Wow pretty sweet stuff, I had seen it before.

-Petey



> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> If you'd care to evaluate those player's talents, then be my guest. You can view my guide here.
> 
> http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/game/920671.html
> ...


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

Rashidi, is this a hobby or a part/full time job? Very nice, extensive setup you have going.


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## JoeT020 (Jan 24, 2005)

> So what exactly makes Sweetney any better than Tyson Chandler or Chris Wilcox? Care to share?


"Better" depends on who's the judge. Different, though, without a doubt. 

Tyson Chandler is a role player. He does not have strong post moves and lacks the ability to create his own shot. He is good on defense and the boards, though he is pretty inept offensively. He has bad hands and botches alot of passes into the post, plus even when he gets it, he can't do much. 

Sweetney on the other hand, I already described. He can create in the post and change the face of the offense when he's in the game.

Chandler would make a similar impact defensively on this team, since we don't have anyone who can rotate into the paint and consistently contest penetrators.

I don't watch Wilcox enough to accurately comment, sorry.

As for Sweetney's maximum ceiling, I will have to disagree. You say Brand is a better defender and more athletic/quick than Sweetney is. Fair enough, but defense is something that can be taught. In a few years from now, it is very conceivable that Sweetney's defense will be on par with what Brand's is now. As for his athleticism, I think that is a characteristic that is overrated. I think it can be made up for in other things anyway. If Sweetney can do everything as well as Brand, but be only a little bit less athletic, I'll take it. It'd certainly be better than Carlos Boozer.


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## SPIN DOCTOR (Oct 31, 2002)

OK

A good role player. Heck, Steve Kerr could create his own shot nobody ever called him a game-changer. If he turns out nearly as good as Charles Oakley (my comparison), you've got a real good one on your hands.


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## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

*Kerr create his own shot?*

You can't be serious.......he was a spot up shooter...period. A very good one, but a spot up shooter nonetheless. sweetney requires patience. How many guys in the last 5-10 years have been as productive with as little time as he has gotten? When he gets a season as a fulltime starter, he will blossom. BTW, he isalready more athletic than Brand. Don't let the size fool you. Few guys run the floor like he does and his hands will make him stand out.


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## Tom (Jul 15, 2002)

Sweetney isn't overrated...he is just average. He has limitations in ability, but plays well. He would be a good role player on a championship team.


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