# Posey leaves for New Orleans



## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

*Goodbye Posey*

ESPN is reporting he got a 4 yr $25 million deal from the Hornets.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3492206

I'm actually ok with this. It's more money than I would have been willing to spend. Who should we look at now?


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3492206

LMAO at a 4 year deal. But if Tony Allen is taking his place, I'll kill my neighbor's dog.


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

*Re: Goodbye Posey*

Names that immediately come to mind are: Josh Childress, Kelenna Azubuike, Sasha Vujacic, and the Giddens/Walker combo.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Goodbye Posey*

if we dont get Josh Childress, this off-season was a complete disaster. ALL they had to do was re-sign Posey, THAT'S IT. We already lost out on Maggette, Childress is the only acceptable, remaining option


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

We better get Childress, its the only option remaining


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

We better get Childress.


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

It'd be hilarious if we offered Deng the MLE and he actually took it (note: Obviously this won't happen and the bulls would match anyways)...1 year 12 years doesn't matter to me.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

We wont get childress, ATL would match for the MLE.

I'm sad to see him go, but thats a big contract to give an older bench guy, good for the hornets he will help their bench and toughness and give them some vet, championship experience, also good for james... and thank you, he did a great job here and without him number 17 wouldnt have happened, but this contract is the one that sets he and his family up for good, so no hard feelings.

now we move on, i expect to see TA back and one of Azubuike/Barnes/Miles signed

remember that while this isnt great having to lose one of our core guys, it does now give danny almost 6 million to fill out the roster


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

what about J.R. Smith? What kind of money you think he's looking for?
Bring Ricky Davis back?? Darius Miles would be an option if healthy


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

i wouldnt mind ricky.... but im sure most people will blow up about the idea lol.

JR would be interesting, attitude is an issue though


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## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

Denver would match an MLE deal for Smith.

I've heard you guys would look at Nachbar if Posey goes though, thoughts on that?


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

I've thought about it, and I think our best choice is Barnes (besides for Childress).

He has the versatility to play PF, so he can be on the court with our Big 3. He spreads the floor with his 3 point shooting, and he's a hustler/energy guy. He's athletic, and he can defend fairly well and rebound also. And he's the type of player who won't back down from anything or anybody. He's our best option.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

yeah im not a huge fan on Boki
i would have in order of preference:

1. Childress (not going to happen)
2. Barnes
3. Ricky
4. 'Buike
5. JR

rest


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

Wow. Our off-season is going down the tube FAST.


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## DWADE4 (Aug 18, 2006)

I think you guys should go after Carlos Delfino now. If you saw him play last season for the Raptors he had a great year. Good at attacking the rim, has a decent 3pt shot, and was a threat to score in double digits any time he stepped on the court. He would be a great 6th man for you guys who can play multiple positions. 

And he could come in for the MLE since the Raptors are not going to match.


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

Childress or Azubuike would be great gets. I doubt Atlanta will let Childress go though.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

there are definately more faces to be added to this team, have to wait and see who they are, should be an interesting couple of days


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Avalanche said:


> We wont get childress, ATL would match for the MLE.


Not necessarily. Obviously Boston would have two sales jobs, one to Childress to come here and the other to Atlanta on the subject of cheap replacements. _But_, the Hawks are going to have to tie up Josh Smith, either this summer or next, and he's going to get near-max money. Then, over the next three years they have Marvin Williams, Joe Johnson, and Al Horford to tie up. Johnson, due to his contract, is going to be an over-max guy (his starting salary would be in the $16 million range), and Marvin Williams is likely to be an over-MLE guy. That leaves them paying out a lot of money to a bench player with three guys that are going to be getting paid _a lot_ of money. So the thought of replacing Childress with a reasonably priced Tony Allen, a rookie deal like J.R. Giddens and a first round pick in 2011 might be a lot more appetising than getting whacked by the luxury tax while they're still trying to become profitable.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

true.. but i cant see a trade happening


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Delfino is playing overseas for the guy who recommended him.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Why would we want J.R. Smith? He's the opposite of defense, leadership, and pretty much everything else Posey gave us except for the three point shot.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Terrible news. $25 mill for four years is only roughly $6 mill. What's the mid-level...5? 5 and a half? 

That kind of dough for Posey isn't a huge pill to swallow. FFS, they're shelling out $60 mill to Pierce/Garnett/Allen alone, but they're not going to re-sign Posey because of a coupla million bucks?


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Definately sad to see him leave... i understand the F.O wants flexibilty especially when Ray comes off the books but surely you have to go all out while you can, not like hes going to become untradable if you do want him off the books.

Really hope we use the MLE and other money to spread out to a few different players, id like to see Lue, Barnes/Azubuike or Ricky D, Maybe even the Birdman aswell


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## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

It was probably the fact that he was seeking a 4-year deal that didn't bode well. The Celtics likely didn't want to go that long and that's understandable. He was such a vital part of this team though. He's definitely going to be missed. I don't know how they plan to fill his void, but I have confidence in Ainge. They're definitely not standing pat. 

I really doubt they can get Childress, but if they do, I'd be ecstatic! One of my favorite players and I actually know the guy.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

I'm going to miss the feeling of a corner three being absolutely automatic if it was taken by Posey in the last three minutes of a close game.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

^ likewise... was very confident every time you would see him launch the three, even more so then ray, house etc he just had a great swagger about what he did on court that will be missed


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

I hope it doesn't happen, but it would be foolish of Boston not to offer Childress a full MLE offer. Even if they wait the 7 days and Atlanta matches it, guys like Azubuike, Barnes, Delfino and R. Davis will still be there, in all likelihood.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

I hate how some people have been mentioning Vujacic, J.R. Smith, and Nachbar as potential replacements. They give you the three point shooting, but none of them compare on defense or leadership.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> I hate how some people have been mentioning Vujacic, J.R. Smith, and Nachbar as potential replacements. They give you the three point shooting, but none of them compare on defense or leadership.


nobody will, its likely a matter of replacing Posey with multiple players because no one on the market brings exactly what he does

i like Barnes or Azubuike personally, Ricky would be decent off the bench


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Damian Necronamous said:


> I hope it doesn't happen, but it would be foolish of Boston not to offer Childress a full MLE offer. Even if they wait the 7 days and Atlanta matches it, guys like Azubuike, Barnes, Delfino and R. Davis will still be there, in all likelihood.


maybe... but odds are ATL would match the offer, and we cant come away with nothing.. teams are likely to be very busy for that 7 days we have our money tied up


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Lol, Vujacic and Nachbar...J.R. Smith is a good player, but his D is bad.

Childress would be the best replacement, if we could get him. But Barnes is the best replacement that is real obtainable. He brings as much energy as anyone- crashing the boards, getting steals and blocks, getting loose balls, running the floor, and playing defense. He hits the 3 well, and he can slide over to the 4 spot in a small lineup. And its not like he's just some hustle player either. He can actually create off the dribble and get to the rack. His spin move and floater are good.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

I agree... he may not be able to defend the star 2 guards like Posey did, but that was a luxury.. we have good team defense and Giddens will help with that loss.

Barnes is as close to a replacement as we'll get


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Avalanche said:


> I agree... he may not be able to defend the star 2 guards like Posey did, but that was a luxury.. we have good team defense and Giddens will help with that loss.
> 
> Barnes is as close to a replacement as we'll get


Good point about Giddens. He should become a lock-down defender. He's a SG with a 7 foot wingspan. I mean, holy ****. He's fast, he jumps high and has incredible length, plus he's already a pretty good defender. And say all you want about his character, but he's a gym rat and he's focused on getting better. Put a player with all that on the best defensive team in the league and have him guard Ray Allen AND Paul Pierce everyday, and you're bound to see him become a great defender.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Absolutely... hes like a rondo defender for SG's but stronger and i think will have a real impact this season. still gotta wonder who Ainge is loking at as Poseys replacement though


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

ehmunro said:


> Not necessarily. Obviously Boston would have two sales jobs, one to Childress to come here and the other to Atlanta on the subject of cheap replacements. _But_, the Hawks are going to have to tie up Josh Smith, either this summer or next, and he's going to get near-max money. Then, over the next three years they have Marvin Williams, Joe Johnson, and Al Horford to tie up. Johnson, due to his contract, is going to be an over-max guy (his starting salary would be in the $16 million range), and Marvin Williams is likely to be an over-MLE guy. That leaves them paying out a lot of money to a bench player with three guys that are going to be getting paid _a lot_ of money. So the thought of replacing Childress with a reasonably priced Tony Allen, a rookie deal like J.R. Giddens and a first round pick in 2011 might be a lot more appetising than getting whacked by the luxury tax while they're still trying to become profitable.


Atlanta *probably* has more enticing trade offers on the table for Josh than that Boston package.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

I'm damn sure Giddens is gonna have an impact this season. It's a lot easier for young players to make contributions when they're playing with three All-Stars. They have little expectations, and their deficiencies can be hidden, so they can be one-dimensional players. That plus 5 years of college convince me that Giddens is ready. It also helps that wings have the least to learn.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

if we can replace a lost Posey with Giddens/Barnes i dont feel so bad


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Probably as well we're going to do.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

I have a hard time believing Giddens can make an impact like Posey can, but he'll have to. Bostons bench just took a big hit. Cassell is dried up, and Posey is gone.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Cassell was dried up and he was hurting the team. So that's no loss. But still the anti-Rondo parade is clamoring for Cassell's return I'd imagine...


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## TONYALLEN42 (Jan 24, 2005)

Michael Finley anyone?


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

I could see Boston bringing back Ryan Gomes. Minnesota won't overpay him, thankfully.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

Ruff Draft said:


> I could see Boston bringing back Ryan Gomes. Minnesota won't overpay him, thankfully.


Doesn't that imply that we would overpay him?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

TONYALLEN42 said:


> Michael Finley anyone?


The only thing Finley has left in the gas tank is sugar.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

We wont overpay for Gomes if we didnt for Posey


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

Jacoby_Ellsbury said:


> I hate how some people have been mentioning Vujacic, J.R. Smith, and Nachbar as potential replacements. They give you the three point shooting, but none of them compare on defense or leadership.


bro, we need someone that can score coming off the bench. We have NOBODY


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Marcus13 said:


> bro, we need someone that can score coming off the bench. We have NOBODY


Remember that Posey wasn't much of a scoring threat except for an open three. Unless you're referring to bench players in general, not just a replacement for Posey. His offensive production can be filled by mostly any decent backup NBA swingman. What can't be replaced easily is his clutch ability, agitating style of play, defense, and locker rom presence.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

P-Dub34 said:


> Remember that Posey wasn't much of a scoring threat except for an open three. Unless you're referring to bench players in general, not just a replacement for Posey.


Regardless of Posey, you know when the bench came in and we had only one of the Big Three on the floor there was zero offense. Most of them can defend very well, but somebody has to be able to play on the other end of the floor too


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

We do need scoring off the bench though, Posey is gone, House looks likely to be gone and Cassell isnt coming back either



> The Celtics are looking at a number of options via free agency with James Posey having left the team for the Hornets, according to The Boston Globe.
> 
> Posey signed a four-year, $25 million deal with New Orleans on Wednesday.
> 
> ...


http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wi...80717/celtics_looking_around_with_posey_gone/

So i guess its:
Barnes
Azubuike
Wells
Davis
Nachbar
George
Smith
Evans 
Finley...


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Marcus13 said:


> Regardless of Posey, you know when the bench came in and we had only one of the Big Three on the floor there was zero offense. Most of them can defend very well, but somebody has to be able to play on the other end of the floor too


I agree that a scorer would be nice, but the Celtics did just win an NBA chip with that formula, so, I mean...yeah.

I'm a little pissed off at Posey, to be honest. Celtics offered him three years and money as good as anyone else, but he leaves a team he was a huge part of the championship as for one more year on a contract. What a joke. All the best to him, and he was my second favorite player behind Pierce this year, but hard to not feel slighted in this situation.

Anyways, FWIW, I'm on the Azubuike bandwagon. And I always did like Ricky Davis. Say what you will about Buckets, but he served Boston well the first time around, and I'm positive Glenn could straighten him out again.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

I think Ricky would be great off the bench he could also play a lot of minutes with most of the starters on the floor, allowing Pierce or Ray to spend minutes with the second unit

oh and FWIW i dont think we offered Posey 3 years, 2 years was the max (the initial offer was 3 years/12mil)


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

not so sure denver would match an MLE offer to Smith. didnt ya see their trade? regardless Smith plays zero D


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> According to an NBA source, the Celtics were willing to give the 31-year-old their full midlevel exception over three years, starting at $5.5 million next season.


http://www.boston.com/sports/basket...celtics_for_hornets/?p1=Well_MostPop_Emailed6

If that's true, that's definitely a slap in the face. He was welcomed and received with nothing but positive feelings from day one (except from Premier, who wanted Ruben Patterson instead.), he wins a championship here, and he leaves for one more year on a contract. 

I guess when you've been a big piece of two rings you can play for the money and security.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

nbanoitall said:


> not so sure denver would match an MLE offer to Smith. didnt ya see their trade? regardless Smith plays zero D


I'd be ecstatic if we could get him here for the MLE


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

well he wanted long term security... if it was only one year more then yeh it may be questionable but hes a role player trying to get the contract to set him up for the rest of his life, after that 4 years he knows he'll probbaly be on vet min contracts from there out.
I hated to see him go.. but cant hate him for it


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

dunno how well smith would work here, outside of the big 3 we are VERY young right now


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Replacing Posey sufficiently means, more than anything else, getting someone who can guard the other team's best SG/SF effectively. Bench scoring as a whole is a seperate issue.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Looks like another one down, Azubuike signed an offer with the Clippers per espn


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Avalanche said:


> dunno how well smith would work here, outside of the big 3 we are VERY young right now


instant offense, nothing else


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

from SI:


> "The 6-foot-9 Miles was exhausted by the 90-minute workout. At the end, however, he jumped flat-footed and touched the top of the backboard square.
> 
> "I'm physically 100 percent,'' Miles said in his first interview since attempting a comeback unprecedented in this salary-cap era. "I'm not in [basketball] shape, but healthwise and bodywise I'm 100 percent. I've got the explosion, I can move""





> "While Miles disagrees that he has set a bad example, he admits that he needs to play on a veteran team for the first time.
> 
> "Coming back into this league, I've got to be on a team where I look up to the players,'' he said. "I've been on the good side, where everything is good for you -- fans, shoe commercials, movie deals, my jersey in the top five. Then I'm on that side where I'm just labeled this criminal, this thug, this bad guy -- 'He can't be coached.' I've been on both sides and it's funny, I don't know how I went from that side to this side. I don't have a [criminal] record. I don't do anything out of the ordinary. I never had problems with my teammates. It's crazy how you get labeled.''
> 
> ...


still doubtful anyone takes the risk


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## mqtcelticsfan (Apr 2, 2006)

P-Dub34 said:


> I guess when you've been a big pie...ts are one of the very best teams in the NBA.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

I actually think the Hornets are going to come out of the west next season, really dont want to see posey in the finals though


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

mqtcelticsfan said:


> What the **** are you going on about? It's not like he went to the Bucks or something. The Hornets are one of the very best teams in the NBA.


Hold the phone. If you think the Hornets being a good team was the factor in his choice, you're insane. It was about the one year on the deal, otherwise he'd have chosen THE best team in the NBA, not one of the best. He's been going on about a four year deal forever. It was about the money and the security a four year deal offers as opposed to a three year deal. End of story.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Avalanche said:


> from SI:
> 
> 
> 
> still doubtful anyone takes the risk


If the Celtics EVER signed Darius Miles, I'd send Danny Ainge a letter bomb.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

:laugh: well fair enough then

With Azubuike signing an offer sheet with the Clipps i think now is the time to make an offer to Barnes, put the Warriors in 2 minds as they are more likely to focus on Azubuike then Barnes


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## mqtcelticsfan (Apr 2, 2006)

P-Dub34 said:


> Hold the phone. If you think the Hornets being a good team was the factor in his choice, you're insane. It was about the one year on the deal, otherwise he'd have chosen THE best team in the NBA, not one of the best. He's been going on about a four year deal forever. It was about the money and the security a four year deal offers as opposed to a three year deal. End of story.


But you're acting like he's going somewhere that gives him no chance at winning. He has a tremendous shot at a title next year, which is why they gave him the money in the first place. Posey's the kind of role player that championship teams look for. The only teams that will break the bank for him are teams like Boston, New Orleans, LA or Detroit.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Plus how many players have contributed in a big way to 3 different championship teams... Posey became THE player that contenders want and the hornets have him for 4 years, great move by them


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

mqtcelticsfan said:


> But you're acting like he's going somewhere that gives him no chance at winning.


I'm actually acting like he's going somewhere other than the team he just won an NBA championship with because of, as I previously mentioned, one more year on his contract and a few more dollars in his pocket.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Miles wouldn't be any sort of risk at all.The blazers are paying him.The team he signs with will only have to pay him the veterans minimum and a good chunk of that is paid by the league.If it doesn't work out you just cut him and move on.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

true but there is only so many roster spots, we have already taken a flyer on O'bryant.. we need soem proven players


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Diable said:


> Miles wouldn't be any sort of risk at all.The blazers are paying him.The team he signs with will only have to pay him the veterans minimum and a good chunk of that is paid by the league.If it doesn't work out you just cut him and move on.


Miles isn't a financial risk, he's just a scrub who also happens to be a team cancer.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Avalanche said:


> :laugh: well fair enough then
> 
> With Azubuike signing an offer sheet with the Clipps i think now is the time to make an offer to Barnes, put the Warriors in 2 minds as they are more likely to focus on Azubuike then Barnes


Yup. Exactly what I was thinking. 

Although Azubuike is one of the better options, I'm kinda glad he's signing with the Clips. It narrows it down more to Barnes.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Not sure ive heard anything officially the C's are even looking at barnes, really hope they are though and its definately the time now to make him an offer


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

P-Dub34 said:


> Hold the phone. If you think the Hornets being a good team was the factor in his choice, you're insane. It was about the one year on the deal, otherwise he'd have chosen THE best team in the NBA, not one of the best. He's been going on about a four year deal forever. It was about the money and the security a four year deal offers as opposed to a three year deal. End of story.


You're oversimplifying things. It was likely a combination of wanting to compete and wanting security. He has almost as good a chance to compete with New Orleans as he did here and he gets about $7 or $8 million extra.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

silverpaw1786 said:


> You're oversimplifying things. It was likely a combination of wanting to compete and wanting security. He has almost as good a chance to compete with New Orleans as he did here and he gets about $7 or $8 million extra.


I don't understand. You're agreeing with me. He gets more security and some more benji's. The contract Ainge offered him paid him more over three years than NO's would have, if I'm to understand DA correctly. He wanted the extra year on his contract. That's why he left, plain and simple.


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

P-Dub34 said:


> I don't understand. You're agreeing with me. He gets more security and some more benji's. *The contract Ainge offered him paid him more over three years than NO's would have*, if I'm to understand DA correctly. He wanted the extra year on his contract. That's why he left, plain and simple.


Are you sure about that? NO's is for more than the current MLE / year.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Nah that isnt right, IF they offered him 3 years in was just at the MLE, the hornets offer is 4 years MLE with small raises each year i think


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

Avalanche said:


> Nah that isnt right, IF they offered him 3 years in was just at the MLE, the hornets offer is 4 years MLE with small raises each year i think


Hornets signing is 4 years 25 million, which is 6.25 million per year. Current MLE is 5.6 million I think?


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

silverpaw1786 said:


> Hornets signing is 4 years 25 million, which is 6.25 million per year. Current MLE is 5.6 million I think?


The article said Posey would start at 5.6 mill and that would increase, I believe. I'm not positive here. It does say the C's contract would've paid Posey more over the first two years, which would lead me to believe that the difference in what he'd have made in three years for Boston and three years for NO would've been negligible.


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

P-Dub34 said:


> The article said Posey would start at 5.6 mill and that would increase, I believe. I'm not positive here. It does say the C's contract would've paid Posey more over the first two years, which would lead me to believe that the difference in what he'd have made in three years for Boston and three years for NO would've been negligible.


Link? 
I'm pretty sure your article is wrong.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Posted the link from the Globe on Page 4 of this thread, but here it is again:

http://www.boston.com/sports/basket...celtics_for_hornets/?p1=Well_MostPop_Emailed6



Danny Ainge said:


> "We offered James Posey the most over the next two years than any other team, but fourth-year security was very important to him."


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

i think they offered equally as much, We only had the MLE and thats what the hornets gave him


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

Azubuike signed an offer sheet with the Clippers


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

> Matt Barnes is a player who definitely would be a good fit for the Celtics to help replace what they lost with James Posey. The Washington Post reports that the word is that teams are going to wait him out and get him at a good price. The Wizards, who have only around $1.5 million left under the luxury tax threshold, are interested but since Barnes made $3 million last season, he isn't going to jump at an offer that his half as much. The Celtics could split their MLE between Barnes and another player and would be an attractive destination because they can offer him a chance at a ring. Teams may be trying to wait him out and get him cheaper, but like Posey, some team out there will give him what he wants.


http://celticsgreen.blogspot.com/2008/07/rumors-and-free-agent-updates-greg.html

With Posey, Maggette, Azubuike, Jones, Miles all off the list now i dont want to miss out on barnes, id give him a 3-3.5 mil offer with team option for the second year... leaving another 2 or more mil of the MLE to use on a backup big or PG


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

I totally agree with the post and the article.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Devean George is another player who is available... but im not a big fan, I really hope Danny and co are looking at Barnes


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## ChrisRichards (Jul 17, 2007)

HEAT Fan here......

you guys took a HUGE devastating blow by losing Posey. You could throw him on any perimeter player and Posey could defend him. even Kobe. his toughness and getting into opponents heads is something I always loved. Posey did it in Miami, he did it in Boston. Remember when he was making Lamar Odom really angry and getting Odom out of his game? He knows how to frustrate people lol

and that 3 point shot. When he was in Miami, anytime Posey took a 3 towards the end of game, I was already jumping off the couch. The man is CLUTCH.

He's the PERFECT role player. He could start, too. He's not a bench player. He started in Miami and played bench too. He does whatever is asked of him. 

What more can you ask? Boston took a huge hit losing this guy. Should have paid him.


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

The 3 point shot is the loss. Tony Allen plays equal or better perimeter defense.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Posey's man defense isn't what people made it out to be.

Pierce guarded LeBron 2/3 of the time.

Allen guarded Kobe almost all the time.

Posey really stood out on D because he helped well and always took charges.

We didn't take a huge hit by losing Posey. His 7 ppg in 25 mpg is easily replaceable. Barnes can do better than that, especially if he's playing with the Big 3. Barnes can rebound just as well, also. And in the Dallas series, you saw that Barnes has balls and will make big plays, just like Posey. His defense isn't quite as good, but a change to the defensive system of the Celtics would make him maximize his defense.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

LamarButler said:


> Posey's man defense isn't what people made it out to be.
> 
> Pierce guarded LeBron 2/3 of the time.
> 
> ...


I have to take issue with this. Matt Barnes hit some shots in a first round series. James Posey has consistently made big plays and hit big shots in crucial moments for two championship teams. It's demeaning to James to insinuate that Matt Barnes can replace that. We're talking about a guy who has made a career out of being the type of player he is and saying that Matt Barnes, who was on his way out of the league before he signed with G-State, can replace him. It's no coincidence that Barnes broke out on a team where you can jet up the floor and jack up threes whenever you want and then give up 110 points per. If he was never a legit roleplayer on any team before signing with run n' gun G-State, what makes you think he can replace Posey on a championship team? Come on, now.

Additionally, what Matt Barnes absolutely doesn't bring is the lockerrom presence, which was almost as important as the way Posey actually played on the floor. The pre-game psych ups, the hugs so tight that people in the first coupla rows got nervous (thanks Bill), the swagger, the way he carried himself - Matt Barnes isn't any of that. Measuring Posey's impact on this team in numbers is just not doing him any justice, because we all know the things he did on and off the floor way, way exceeded the impact that a 7ppg player has. 

Barnes is a good idea for a replacement to Posey, and yeah, perhaps he can match the production. But he's not even close to bringing then entire pallet that Posey had, on and off the court. You're kidding yourself if you think losing James isn't a big deal, _especially_ if the Celtics keep letting possible replacements sign elsewhere.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

^ i do agree completely, and ive said previously there is no player we can bring in who can replace what James did... he was huge for this team and will definately be missed.

We are however suddenly a team full of championship experienced players, and while Barnes isnt the presence in the locker room nor does he have Poseys track record of clutch games... hes as close to a replacement as we would get... Danny has to be careful to not let all these guys get away


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

I agree, Av. Options are starting to run slim, and although I'm hesitant about Barnes track record with teams who don't run, jack up threes, and that actually defend, he just might be the best option left.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

he would because although we arent a running team the guys on the wings get open looks at 3 which im confident he can knock down, as well as the hustle and defense he brings, better then most other FA options left


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Avalanche said:


> he would because although we arent a running team the guys on the wings get open looks at 3 which im confident he can knock down, as well as the hustle and defense he brings, better then most other FA options left


Just to play devil's advocate, that's probably the same thing the Clippers, Kings, Knicks, and Sixers thought. Has he really gotten better in the last two years? He barely even shot threes before going to the Warriors, and he was abysmal (29%) from behind the arc last year. Antoine Walker used to shoot them at about 32%, to give you an idea of how bad that is for a guy that has the green light. 

I'm just a little hesitant to sign a guy who has had one good NBA season out of six.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

quite possibly but we've seen the same thing with a guy like House last season.

None of those teams had the leadership or players to get him quite as open as we do here, its a great spot for a 3 point shooter to play really


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Avalanche said:


> quite possibly but we've seen the same thing with a guy like House last season.
> 
> None of those teams had the leadership or players to get him quite as open as we do here, its a great spot for a 3 point shooter to play really


Eddie House's career three point numbers blow Barnes' out of the water. And believe me when I tell you he got plenty of good looks in G-State.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

Re: Barnes

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2008/07/20/20080720barnes.html


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

P-Dub34 said:


> Just to play devil's advocate, that's probably the same thing the Clippers, Kings, Knicks, and Sixers thought. Has he really gotten better in the last two years? He barely even shot threes before going to the Warriors, and he was abysmal (29%) from behind the arc last year. Antoine Walker used to shoot them at about 32%, to give you an idea of how bad that is for a guy that has the green light.
> 
> I'm just a little hesitant to sign a guy who has had one good NBA season out of six.


Its actually five seasons. 

Yes, his first three seasons don't look so great. But when arriving in Golden State, he really got better. For example, his FT% in his two seasons in Golden State is 74%. For the Clippers, Kings, Knicks, and Sixers, it was 66%. That's dramatic improvement that a system doesn't do for you. 

Three point shooters are going to get good looks regardless of what type of team they play for. Maybe they won't get as much on certain teams, but they'll still get them. Barnes barely took any threes in his first three seasons. He made more threes in 06-07, and then 07-08 than he had attempted for his whole career. In his first three seasons, he shot .36 threes a game. That's not because he only got a good look at a three pointer every three games, its because he didn't have the ability to shoot them and make them at a respectable percentage. 

Last season was a fall-off from his last season in 3PT%, but he still managed to average produce 7 ppg in 19 minutes, and grab 4.4 boards a game. The death of his mom most likely had a lot to do with his drop-off. And as mediocre as his career was before Golden State, his rebounding and steals numbers were always solid for the minutes he played. So that and his energy/hustle plus his improved shooting/scoring make him a solid bench player.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Aw god damn it. There's nobody else.


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

Offer Childress the full MLE and see if Atlanta matches. If they do, we're no worse off than we were before the offer.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

LamarButler said:


> Its actually five seasons.


No, it's six.

I have to go to work, though. Will address your post later.


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## TONYALLEN42 (Jan 24, 2005)

> LAS VEGAS – In a potentially stunning move that reflects the growing challenge Europe’s basketball leagues pose to the NBA, Atlanta Hawks free-agent forward Josh Childress is strongly considering a three-year, $20 million offer from Greek powerhouse Olympiakos, several league sources said Sunday night.


Looks like he's got an offer already too deep for our liking.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...=aw-childressgreece072108&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

except for that we have living in America going for us. Throw the offer out there....we aint gonna lose out on nobody worth waiting for


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

He's just doing it to pressure the Atlanta management.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

LamarButler said:


> Its actually five seasons.
> 
> Yes, his first three seasons don't look so great. But when arriving in Golden State, he really got better. For example, his FT% in his two seasons in Golden State is 74%. For the Clippers, Kings, Knicks, and Sixers, it was 66%. That's dramatic improvement that a system doesn't do for you.


Matt Barnes' career high in FTA for one season is 123, in 2007. That's roughly one and a half free throws taken per game. Thus, the difference between him shooting 73% from the line and 66% from the line is about nine free throws made per year. What I'm saying is, Matt Barnes free throw percentage is ridiculously unimportant and it doesn't matter if he's shooting it at 65% or 80%. He doesn't shoot enough for it to matter. I have no clue why you'd bring up a point that is so obviously mot.



> Three point shooters are going to get good looks regardless of what type of team they play for. Maybe they won't get as much on certain teams, but they'll still get them. Barnes barely took any threes in his first three seasons. He made more threes in 06-07, and then 07-08 than he had attempted for his whole career.


Probably because he got good, consistent minutes for the first time since he was a rookie.



> In his first three seasons, he shot .36 threes a game. That's not because he only got a good look at a three pointer every three games, its because he didn't have the ability to shoot them and make them at a respectable percentage.


He's had the ability to shoot them at a respectable percentage for one year. He shot them at a grotesque 29% last year. Ugh. 



> Last season was a fall-off from his last season in 3PT%, but he still managed to average produce 7 ppg in 19 minutes, and grab 4.4 boards a game. The death of his mom most likely had a lot to do with his drop-off. And as mediocre as his career was before Golden State, his rebounding and steals numbers were always solid for the minutes he played. So that and his energy/hustle plus his improved shooting/scoring make him a solid bench player.


I agree that he's a decent bench player, but for you to act like he could replace what Posey brought was asinine.


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## Avalanche (Nov 17, 2005)

Well hes gone now so its a moot point, seeing him sign for the minimum hurts though IMO, thats a very good signing

probably wanted to get back into run and gun to an extent with the Suns (although thats obviously changing with shaq)... get his numbers up and go for a contract again next season


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