# Game Discussion - Week of Jan 4 to 10



## HB

UNC is having a tough time against College of Charleston, that team is surprisingly good. Lots of shooters.

Ed Davis just had one of the dunks of the year, absolute posterization.

OT!!!!

Dont know who this Gaudelock dude is but he can shoot like crazy. Just hit a 3 to tie the game.


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## zagsfan20

Charleston made a crazy run and tied the game to go to overtime.


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## HB

What a game? Drew hits a 3, C of C with one point lead. 59 secs left.


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## zagsfan20

.8 to go. Charleston up by 3. Big time upset.


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## zagsfan20

Horrible loss for N. Carolina. I bet Coophole (or whatever) bet a G on Charleston winning straight up.

Didn't realize Bobby Cremins was the coach of Charleston. I remember when Charleston had great squads in the late 90's early 00's when they had Anthony Johnson.


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## HB

I want to puke. We deserve to drop out of the top 25.


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## TM

how much would Graves and Ginyard have helped, HB?


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## HB

Umm not much, this guys were determined to win. Shooting from all over the court, even their center was hitting 3's. UNC's ball handlers are just really poor this year. I give credit to Cremins, he really had his team ready for this one. We suck!


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## Nimreitz

I don't know where else to post this to rile up UK fans, but Wisconsin would beat Kentucky. For such an "elite" team I am just not afraid of them at all.


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## coolpohle

zagsfan20 said:


> Horrible loss for N. Carolina. I bet Coophole (or whatever) bet a G on Charleston winning straight up.
> 
> Didn't realize Bobby Cremins was the coach of Charleston. I remember when Charleston had great squads in the late 90's early 00's when they had Anthony Johnson.


Haha...I wish!


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## coolpohle

HB said:


> Umm not much, this guys were determined to win. Shooting from all over the court, even their center was hitting 3's. UNC's ball handlers are just really poor this year. I give credit to Cremins, he really had his team ready for this one. We suck!


Charleston only shot 43% from the field, and UNC went to the line 28 more times! There's really no reason the Tar Heels should have lost that game.


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## coolpohle

Nimreitz said:


> I don't know where else to post this to rile up UK fans, but Wisconsin would beat Kentucky. For such an "elite" team I am just not afraid of them at all.


Wow, big talk Nim. Wisconsin definitely seems to be under the radar nationally, and I think on a neutral court, we'd give just about anyone a run for their money.


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## coolpohle

Wisconsin @ Michigan St. should be a great game tomorrow. Both teams are coming off conference road victories. The Spartans have failed in their showdown games so far this season. Should be interesting to see how this one turns out.


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## kansasalumn

you posted more on game thread than voting a top 25


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## SheriffKilla

Minnesota looking good today against Purdue... Tubby Smith has done a great job recruiting for them, Paul Carter plays 15 minutes a game for them and he is looking really good, this team is as deep as there is in the nation but doesnt have any real stars which may hurt them. Still though the Gophers are a top 25 team IMO


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## TM

Rotnei Clark can score the rock!


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## Nimreitz

fjkdsi said:


> Minnesota looking good today against Purdue... Tubby Smith has done a great job recruiting for them, Paul Carter plays 15 minutes a game for them and he is looking really good, this team is as deep as there is in the nation but doesnt have any real stars which may hurt them. Still though the Gophers are a top 25 team IMO


I can't believe they got Tubby; I hate the guy. I always liked him at UK, but I do NOT like him competing against Bo for Minnesota kids. We had that state on lock before Tubs got there.


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## HB

Boring league though with those coaches


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## coolpohle

HB said:


> Boring league though with those coaches


Defense may be boring to some. To me, it's quality basketball.


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## HB

I guess


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## Nimreitz

HB said:


> I guess


Not every team can recruit "EXCITING NBA LOTTERY PICKS!" that are also horrendous 6'10'' shooting guards.


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## TM

I don't recall a game where I haven't seen Dexter Pittman score a bucket and then flex with both arms. You're 280+, playing amongst boys. YOURE SUPPOSED TO MAKE SHOTS 2FEET FROM THE BASKET! What a dork.

Meanwhile, Arkansas has a bunch of brainless ball players. Clarke is clearly their best offensive player tonight and they're hardly giving him the ball. Balbay is all over him. You only get half a second to get the ball to a guy when he's coming off screens. They're just looking at him. Stop hanging onto the ball for goodness sakes.


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## HB

Nimreitz said:


> Not every team can recruit "EXCITING NBA LOTTERY PICKS!" that are also horrendous 6'10'' shooting guards.


and churn out championships every 3 or 4 years, meanwhile those defensive gurus lol their trophy cases are gathering dust.


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## coolpohle

HB said:


> and churn out championships every 3 or 4 years, meanwhile those defensive gurus lol their trophy cases are gathering dust.


It's a lot easier to get kids to go to UNC than it is Wisconsin. I'd like to see what Roy would be able to do with Wisconsin's talent.


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## TM

you guys need to turn to the end of this texas-arkansas game. it's a 3 pt game. arkansas is still stupid so they probably won't win. Only chance is if they get Clarke the ball.


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## HB

Gtech loses to UGA today. Sad. ND 13-3 right now. Harangody with 36.


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## ATLien

HB said:


> Gtech loses to UGA today. Sad. ND 13-3 right now. Harangody with 36.


Tech couldn't make a jumper to save their lives, but it's a rivalry game. I was surprised to find out Paul Hewitt has never won at UGA before.


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## bball2223

HB said:


> Gtech loses to UGA today. Sad. ND 13-3 right now. Harangody with 36.


Would be surprised to see ND in the tourney. Guards are not that great and they play no defense.


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## SheriffKilla

Huh? you said that ND is gonna make the tourney because their guards suck and they play no D??


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## coolpohle

bball2223 said:


> Would be surprised to see ND in the tourney. Guards are not that great and they play no defense.


They killed themselves with a terrible non conference schedule. Their best win was over Long Beach St. and they lost at home to Loyola Marymount. Plenty of work for them to do.


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## bball2223

fjkdsi said:


> Huh? you said that ND is gonna make the tourney because their guards suck and they play no D??


I'm not convinced they will make it yet because of those things.


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## SheriffKilla

Notre Dame has a chance to make the tourney as do a bunch of middling Big East teams
As they long as they keep up at least an allright record in conference play, they can make some sort of run in the Conference tourney behind Harangody and if not too many mid majors stealing bids theyll get in...


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## apelman42

HB said:


> and churn out championships every 3 or 4 years, meanwhile those defensive gurus lol their trophy cases are gathering dust.


Ouch. Not sure why this comment was necessary.

That's fine, we'll continue to whoop up on that crappy ACC conference in football. Does North Carolina know what a BCS bowl looks like?


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## bball2223

apelman42 said:


> Ouch. Not sure why this comment was necessary.
> 
> That's fine, we'll continue to whoop up on that crappy ACC conference in football. Does North Carolina know what a BCS bowl looks like?


I'm not too sure Wisconsin does either.


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## apelman42

bball2223 said:


> I'm not too sure Wisconsin does either.


You're right, you're not sure. We've been to two Rose Bowls since the BCS started, buddy.

UNC? I think they made a Sugar Bowl in like 1947.


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## Nimreitz

HB said:


> and churn out championships every 3 or 4 years, meanwhile those defensive gurus lol their trophy cases are gathering dust.


If you don't understand that Bo Ryan's tenure at Wisconsin is at least as impressive as Roy's tenure at UNC because of the tremendous talent disparity, I just don't know what to tell you. The 2004 UNC team was INFINITELY more talented than the 2008 Wisconsin team and the press predicted down years for both programs... Roy went 19-11, like he was expected; Bo went 31-5 and dominated both the conference and the conference tournament with the closest thing to a "star" being Brian ****ing Butch.


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## SheriffKilla

I honestly beleive that Leuer and Draymond Green are NBA players
Both have short comings but they are too good basketball wise to ignore


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## HB

Evan Turner is back


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## TM

im glad for OSU... but a dumb decision for Turner


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## apelman42

fjkdsi said:


> I honestly beleive that Leuer and Draymond Green are NBA players
> Both have short comings but they are too good basketball wise to ignore


Can't say a lot about Green because I haven't seen much of him, but Leuer will be playing professional basketball after college. The guy has a great mid-range game for a 6'10" junior in college.

On a darker note, that MSU/UW game was awful. It's games like that that make the Big 10 look so bad.


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## coolpohle

Cornell up by eight in the second half @ Kansas!


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## TM

We'll never hear the end of it from Andy Katz if Cornell actually wins. He's been talking about that upset for the past 3 days.


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## Willo

Kansas pulled out the win, but got to give a lot of love to Cornell for the way they played that game. I've been on the Cornell train for a few weeks now, and I hope that some of you will join me.


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## kansasalumn

KU could not buy a bucket all game. Leave to defense of Kansas @ end of game, and Sherron Collins save the game


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## coolpohle

Willo said:


> Kansas pulled out the win, but got to give a lot of love to Cornell for the way they played that game. I've been on the Cornell train for a few weeks now, and I hope that some of you will join me.


Well, I guess it depends on what you mean by the Cornell train. Harvard has just as good of a chance to win that conference, and with their best resume win over St. John's, they would have to go 25-4 to get an-large.


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## Willo

I, too, think Harvard is very good. If it weren't for that loss to Army, Harvard would be on equal footing with Cornell. I think they both have a good shot to win the Ivy, however, one of them will have to have at least two conference losses because if they both close the Ivy 13-1, then they would have to face off in a title game.

Sadly, the Ivy is not a part of the Bracket Buster, so there's not additional chances for good wins for these teams.


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## TYO23

Woah...that was a close one. Tyrel reed came up huge. And its evident that Sherron showed up and willed us to this win. Not really happy with the performance but a win is a win.


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## Nimreitz

Willo said:


> I, too, think Harvard is very good. If it weren't for that loss to Army, Harvard would be on equal footing with Cornell. I think they both have a good shot to win the Ivy, however, one of them will have to have at least two conference losses because if they both close the Ivy 13-1, then they would have to face off in a title game.
> 
> Sadly, the Ivy is not a part of the Bracket Buster, so there's not additional chances for good wins for these teams.


I also really like this Harvard team, but Cornell is REALLY REALLY REALLY good. Harvard might walk through the Ivy League without getting challenged, but Cornell will have it so easy that they'll dance through the Ivy League because walking won't be enough of a challenge.


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## coolpohle

Nimreitz said:


> I also really like this Harvard team, but Cornell is REALLY REALLY REALLY good. Harvard might walk through the Ivy League without getting challenged, but Cornell will have it so easy that they'll dance through the Ivy League because walking won't be enough of a challenge.


Cornell certainly won't walk through it. They will be challenged obviously both times they play Harvard, and their defense is weak enough where you can't be all that confident in them. They've already had an OT game against a bad Bucknell team and a three point game to La Salle. They are better than last year's team, but not way better and they lost three conference games to sub 200 teams.


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## Willo

coolpohle said:


> Cornell certainly won't walk through it. They will be challenged obviously both times they play Harvard, and their defense is weak enough where you can't be all that confident in them. They've already had an OT game against a bad Bucknell team and a three point game to La Salle. They are better than last year's team, but not way better and they lost three conference games to sub 200 teams.


You really going to talk about their defense when they held Kansas to their second lowest point total of the year? Listen, their defense may not be the best, but it can show up to play when it counts. They also have one of the most effective offenses in the country.


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## coolpohle

Willo said:


> You really going to talk about their defense when they held Kansas to their second lowest point total of the year? Listen, their defense may not be the best, but it can show up to play when it counts. They also have one of the most effective offenses in the country.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to knock Cornell. They are obviously a fine team and have the talent to play with anyone but they are weak defensively. Teams like these spring to life against good opponents and then lose when you don't expect it. It happens all the time. Boston College last year sticks out in my mind well, beating UNC and then losing their next game at home to Harvard. Heck, just last night William & Mary needed OT to beat lowly Delaware by a point. Cornell will start feeling good about themselves and then they'll get Columbia or Princeton on a good night and they will have one of those games when they don't shoot well and they get beat.


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## UD40

A game that is probably going to fly under the radar is the A10 opener: Rhode Island vs. Temple.

Temple is in the top-25, URI is on the verge of it. Should be a slug fest.


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## UD40

Vandy is hot from downtown against Florida.


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## TM

who in the world designed Vandy's basketball setup? surely that building wasn't made specifically for basketball. The goals aren't normal. The benches are on the ends. The shotclock isn't visible to half the court. The courts about as wide as it is long. I'd hate playing there.


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## HB

When people say college doesnt help athletes, look at the Duke squad, particularly Scheyer, that guy has improved every year in college. His court vision is outstanding.


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## HB

Purdue headed for loss-ville right now.

And its crazy how Duke has shot Favors down, really solid interior defense, on the other hand, Gtech isnt rebounding well.


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## TM

I'm not really sure how they're even winning right now. Singler and Smith have done jack.


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## SheriffKilla

HB said:


> When people say college doesnt help athletes, look at the Duke squad, particularly Scheyer, that guy has improved every year in college. His court vision is outstanding.


Yep Scheyer is now possibily the best guard in the nation, besides Wall

Meanwhile, Derrick Favors has a long way to go, too bad GTech dont understand ball movement enough to get him the ball, he has a lot of talent, size and athletism but isnt there yet where he can create his own offense. If he went to a school with better guard play he would be putting up much better numbers


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## Geaux Tigers

Yall should switch over to Mississippi and Mississippi State if you want to watch a real basketball game...


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## HB

Scheyer best guard besides Wall? Sorry not buying that.

Anywhoo its scary how raw Gani Lawal is, if he really got some good big man coaching this guy could be something. He's improved, but his footwork is still not where it should be. Heck of a talent though.


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## coolpohle

HB said:


> Scheyer best guard besides Wall? Sorry not buying that.
> 
> Anywhoo its scary how raw Gani Lawal is, if he really got some good big man coaching this guy could be something. He's improved, but his footwork is still not where it should be. Heck of a talent though.


I'm starting to get tired of this board for the fact that most people on here are obsessed with only evaluating players based on how good they can be at the next level. We've got a guy averaging 20 PPG, a 4.7 assist to turnover ratio, shooting 46% overall, 43% from deep, 92% from the line, leading a 13-1 ACC team, and a guy is trying to say it's ridiculous that he should be considered the 2nd best COLLEGE not NBA potential guard in the country. Mind boggling.


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## HB

So is Jon Scheyer a better guard than Evan Turner? Forget NBA, is he playing better than Turner right now?

And your rant makes no sense, I never mentioned anything about his NBA potential, you brought that up.


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## Geaux Tigers

HB said:


> So is Jon Scheyer a better guard than Evan Turner? Forget NBA, is he playing better than Turner?
> 
> How about Xavier Henry? Is Scheyer playing better than him also?


At this point in time: YES


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## Geaux Tigers

I have a question for Duke fans. Is Brian Zoubek the dumbest player in Duke history?

Also I really like Mason Plumlee. His athleticism and ability to handle the ball is impressive. He has a great frame. I'm excited to see him play more extensive minutes.


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## coolpohle

HB said:


> So is Jon Scheyer a better guard than Evan Turner? Forget NBA, is he playing better than Turner right now?
> 
> And your rant makes no sense, I never mentioned anything about his NBA potential, you brought that up.


Absolutely. 

You don't have to say it - you know that's what you're thinking because if you weren't, you wouldn't argue against Scheyer being a top 2 guard in the country right now.


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## Nimreitz

coolpohle said:


> I'm starting to get tired of this board for the fact that most people on here are obsessed with only evaluating players based on how good they can be at the next level. We've got a guy averaging 20 PPG, a 4.7 assist to turnover ratio, shooting 46% overall, 43% from deep, 92% from the line, leading a 13-1 ACC team, and a guy is trying to say it's ridiculous that he should be considered the 2nd best COLLEGE not NBA potential guard in the country. Mind boggling.


It's hard to sit here and drool over a guy with a million holes in his game. Just because he gets away with it in college doesn't mean I can turn a blind eye. Sorry. I'm sure others feel the same way.


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## coolpohle

Nimreitz said:


> It's hard to sit here and drool over a guy with a million holes in his game. Just because he gets away with it in college doesn't mean I can turn a blind eye. Sorry. I'm sure others feel the same way.


Yeah, another NBA guy chiming in. Go to that forum.


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## HB

:laugh:

Evan Turner already has 2 TRIPLE DOUBLES this season

He's averaging 17.6ppg 10.6rpg 5.8apg 1.1bpg 1.3apg 59FG% Okay he's not as good a 3pt shooter as Scheyer, big ****ing deal, he's better at pretty much everything else.

Please explain to me how Scheyer is playing better than him? This should be a good one. Do you guys UNDERSTAND that he's 6'7 and he's one of the best rebounders, talk less passers in the game?

He's not only playing better than Scheyer, its arguable if Wall has played better than him this year.


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## coolpohle

HB said:


> :laugh:
> 
> Evan Turner already has 2 TRIPLE DOUBLES this season
> 
> He's averaging 17.6ppg 10.6rpg 5.8apg 1.1bpg 1.3apg 59FG% Okay he's not as good a 3pt shooter as Scheyer, big ****ing deal, he's better at pretty much everything else.
> 
> Please explain to me how Scheyer is playing better than him? This should be a good one. Do you guys UNDERSTAND that he's 6'7 and he's one of the best rebounders, talk less passers in the game?
> 
> He's not only playing better than Scheyer, its arguable if Wall has played better than him this year.


I could put up a triple double against Alcorn St. and Lipscomb.

Turner 17.3 PPG. Scheyer 19.7 PPG. Turner cannot shoot the three. Scheyer is deadly accurate. Scheyer 92% FT Shooter. Turner 69%. Scheyer also gets there more frequently. Scheyer 4.7-1 assist-TO ratio. Turner 1.5. Note - I'm not trying to knock on Turner, just saying that's how good Scheyer is playing.


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## HB

LMAO thats why every opponent that faces them are just churning out guys with triple doubles. Please dont ever do that again, it cheapens your argument and it tries to cheapen Turner's achievements. We are talking about one of the most efficient guards in college ball, its not my fault that your argument has no merit. Shoulda added he's crushing Scheyer in FG% also.

It doesnt matter if Turner can shoot the 3 or not, Diebler was shooting *52%* from the floor when Turner wasnt injured. So he's not a perfect player, great, he does so many things well the perimeter shooting is negated. Scheyers shooting 46% from the floor, Turner is at a whopping 59%. No comparison whatsoever.


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## coolpohle

HB said:


> LMAO thats why every opponent that faces them are just churning out guys with triple doubles. Please dont ever do that again, it cheapens your argument and it tries to cheapen Turner's achievements. We are talking about one of the most efficient guards in college ball, its not my fault that your argument has no merit. Shoulda added he's crushing Scheyer in FG% also.


I don't see him churning out triple doubles when he actually plays good teams - only versus school of the blind.


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## coolpohle

HB said:


> LMAO thats why every opponent that faces them are just churning out guys with triple doubles. Please dont ever do that again, it cheapens your argument and it tries to cheapen Turner's achievements. We are talking about one of the most efficient guards in college ball, its not my fault that your argument has no merit. Shoulda added he's crushing Scheyer in FG% also.
> 
> It doesnt matter if Turner can shoot the 3 or not, Diebler was shooting *52%* from the floor when Turner wasnt injured. So he's not a perfect player, great, he does so many things well the perimeter shooting is negated. Scheyers shooting 46% from the floor, Turner is at a whopping 59%. No comparison whatsoever.


And for every stat you throw out, I've thrown one out that negates you as well.


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## SheriffKilla

Im not sure who the better college player is between the 2 but Scheyer has had more of an impact this season because of Turners injury...

Henry and guys like Wes Johnson are more Forwards at the college level

Lawal completely dominated today, him and Austin Freeman both having career games today


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## coolpohle

The funny thing is that if you put the two players stats down and removed their names, most would pick Scheyer's stats. You just happen to think Turner is better because of your Duke and NBA bias.


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## HB

coolpohle said:


> I don't see him churning out triple doubles when he actually plays good teams - only versus school of the blind.


Do double-doubles work then? Because I dont see any other player in college being as productive as this guy is this year. Anywhoo triple doubles are rarities in college ball, to have one talk less two in a season regardless of the competition is amazing.


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## TM

yes, GT, Zoubek is a moron.

Singler sucks. He's the reason they lost today. I don't care if Lawal had an amazing game. Did Singler make more than 2 baskets? Maybe 3. He's terrible.

They're still one of the top 8 teams in the country.


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## coolpohle

HB said:


> Do double-doubles work then? Because I dont see any other player in college being as productive as this guy is this year. Anywhoo triple doubles are rarities in college ball, to have one talk less two in a season regardless of the competition is amazing.


There are a lot of guys that are averaging double doubles.


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## UD40

Missouri-Kansas St coming down too the wire!!!


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## UD40

Well, K'State handed that one too Missouri.


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## HB

coolpohle said:


> The funny thing is that if you put the two players stats down and removed their names, most would pick Scheyer's stats. You just happen to think Turner is better because of your Duke and NBA bias.


WHAT? 

This is a blatant lie, and I'd like to see who else agrees with you on this ridiculous state

I think its you who cant realize that at 6'7 averaging 10rpg and 6apg is a damn impressive feat, especially when you are shooting 59% from the field.

Dont make me out as some Duke basher because I give that team and its players props when need be. In fact you are the one that tried to trivialize Turner's triple doubles by claiming you could do the same against Lipscomb and Alcorn. Have you ever recorder a double double in your rec games talk less claiming to do so in an NCAA game?



> And for every stat you throw out, I've thrown one out that negates you as well.


You do realize Turner leads Scheyer in more statistical categories so exactly how can you negate every stat I have put up?


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## Geaux Tigers

Im starting to sympathize with Demarcus Cousins a bit. Im watching the UK-Georgia game and he's already sitting because of some really soft foul calls. It's like the refs know he fouls and despite his attempts to curb it still call ridiculous fouls on him. I was also shocked that he didn't complain and just walked to the bench shaking his head. He may be growing up a little and I wish the refs would let the kid stay on the court for a complete fricken game!


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## SheriffKilla

But Turner also has freedom to do whatever he wants for Ohio State, 
Turner wouldnt be putting those numbers on Duke, just like Scheyer wouldnt be as effective on ohio state


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## UD40

Watching Old Dominion-Hofstra. ODU is going to be a good team come March. They have great size, they play an awsome zone defense and they are real physical in the post on offense.

I like what I see with these guys.


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## coolpohle

fjkdsi said:


> But Turner also has freedom to do whatever he wants for Ohio State,
> Turner wouldnt be putting those numbers on Duke


No kidding.


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## coolpohle

HB said:


> WHAT?
> 
> This is a blatant lie, and I'd like to see who else agrees with you on this ridiculous state
> 
> I think its you who cant realize that at 6'7 averaging 10rpg and 6apg is a damn impressive feat, especially when you are shooting 59% from the field.
> 
> Dont make me out as some Duke basher because I give that team and its players props when need be. In fact you are the one that tried to trivialize Turner's triple doubles by claiming you could do the same against Lipscomb and Alcorn. Have you ever recorder a double double in your rec games talk less claiming to do so in an NCAA game?
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize Turner leads Scheyer in more statistical categories so exactly how can you negate every stat I have put up?


I'm not saying it's not impressive. We're not arguing that. We're arguing which is more impressive. 

Turner leads in more statistical categories...really?

I see Scheyer ahead in 3PT made per game, 3 PT %, FT made per game, FT %, Assists per game, Assist-TO Ratio, minutes per game, points per game, and for good measure a better team record.

I see Turner ahead in FG made per game, FG %, rebounds per game, and blocks per game.

That's 9-4.


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## rocketeer

coolpohle said:


> I'm not saying it's not impressive. We're not arguing that. We're arguing which is more impressive.
> 
> Turner leads in more statistical categories...really?
> 
> I see Scheyer ahead in 3PT made per game, 3 PT %, FT made per game, FT %, Assists per game, Assist-TO Ratio, minutes per game, points per game, and for good measure a better team record.
> 
> I see Turner ahead in FG made per game, FG %, rebounds per game, and blocks per game.
> 
> That's 9-4.


is this post a joke?


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## coolpohle

rocketeer said:


> is this post a joke?


Nope. Is yours?


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## rocketeer

coolpohle said:


> Nope. Is yours?


i made a joke asking if your post was a joke?

your little breakdown of the stats was ridiculous. 3pts per game, fts per game, minutes per game. awesome stuff there. you also fail to take into account when turner got hurt(giving him only 7 minutes, 4 points, 1 rebound, and 1 assist that game) which drags down his per game stats pretty significantly at this point. and is a 13-2 record really better than ohio state's 8-1 record(pending today's result obviously) when turner plays?

evan turner is better than scheyer at the college level.


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## coolpohle

rocketeer said:


> i made a joke asking if your post was a joke?
> 
> your little breakdown of the stats was ridiculous. 3pts per game, fts per game, minutes per game. awesome stuff there. you also fail to take into account when turner got hurt(giving him only 7 minutes, 4 points, 1 rebound, and 1 assist that game) which drags down his per game stats pretty significantly at this point. and is a 13-2 record really better than ohio state's 8-1 record(pending today's result obviously) when turner plays?
> 
> evan turner is better than scheyer at the college level.


When a non NBA guy chimes in here I'll take it seriously. You guys are obviously biased.


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## Nimreitz

coolpohle said:


> When a non NBA guy chimes in here I'll take it seriously. You guys are obviously biased.


LOL, solid response. And for the record, I never watch NBA games because I can't stand it. Go find how many of my nearly 10k posts are in the NBA section. If it's 500 (5%) I would be shocked.


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## coolpohle

Nimreitz said:


> LOL, solid response. And for the record, I never watch NBA games because I can't stand it. Go find how many of my nearly 10k posts are in the NBA section. If it's 500 (5%) I would be shocked.


Well, I could make a strong argument Fredette's a top 5 college guard right now, but you guys would scoff at it because he has no NBA potential.


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## HB

Lol at minutes per game being some legitimate stat, in all my years of talking basketball on this site, no one has ever brought that up as some ground breaking stat. Weak sauce. Lol it even hampers your argument, do you understand that if Turner was playing as much as Scheyer he'd have even better numbers?

Lets go through this again, Turner leads Scheyer in rebounds per game, blocks per game, steals per game, FG%, TS%, EFG%, shoots better from 2pt, PER, EFF, REb/40, Drbp/g, Drb/40. In the whole nation Turner is second in efficiency. You are wasting my time man.

And you said there are a lot of guys averaging double-doubles, do tell me what guards are doing that?


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## Geaux Tigers

Some of yall are so focused on stats its ridiculous...Do you realize there are many more ways to affect a game than in the statline. Both are great players but Evan is coming off of an injury and right now I'm taking Scheyer.


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## rocketeer

HB said:


> Lol at minutes per game being some legitimate stat, in all my years of talking basketball on this site, no one has ever brought that up as some ground breaking stat.


that seems kinda funny coming from you.


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## HB

^Why? Oh you mean Oden and Lopez, but thats different because one guy fouls too much and cant stay on the floor, the other has adjusted well to the game. Turner isn't playing less minutes because he fouls too much. OSU has good guard depth.


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## Geaux Tigers

I just can't listen to a guy who quotes Woody Paige in his signature...:clown:


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## HB

But the quote is hilarious lol


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## coolpohle

HB said:


> And you said there are a lot of guys averaging double-doubles, do tell me what guards are doing that?


Well, you could just as easily make a case that Turner is a SF. 

Basically, this comes down to you scoffing at the idea that a guy averaging 20 ppg shooting 43% from deep and having a 4.7 assist-TO ratio while leading his team to a 13-2 record is not ridiculously good. It is.


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## SheriffKilla

Ya you cant even really call Turner a guard at the college level he is one of those positionless who does everything for his team, I beleive he is the tallest players in his starting line up...
When I said that Scheyer is the 2nd best guard in College I wasnt counting Turner as a guard


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## HB

^Show me where I said its not ridiculously good? I said I am not buying he is the second best guard in the nation behind Wall and he is not. Evan Turner is listed as guard/forward, on most occasions he plays point guard for his team. He's basically their point guard. He's the best all around player in the nation, not just guard.

And Dallas Lauderdale is taller than Turner fjkdsi


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## coolpohle

HB said:


> ^Show me where I said its not ridiculously good? I said I am not buying he is the second best guard in the nation behind Wall and he is not. Evan Turner is listed as guard/forward, on most occasions he plays point guard for his team. He's basically their point guard. He's the best all around player in the nation, not just guard.
> 
> And Dallas Lauderdale is taller than Turner fjkdsi


Lauderdale is only one guy. 

If you thought that it was ridiculously good you would have never made the statement against him in the first place. So you think Scheyer's the 3rd best and you made that argument? Seems pretty silly to me.  You must think he's barely top 10 right now at best to start that kind of a debate.

Nice dodge on the Fredette comment. Well played.


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## TM

"When we're on top of our game," he said, "no one can stop us."

hahahahahah Lawal is a moron


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## HB

coolpohle said:


> Lauderdale is only one guy.
> 
> If you thought that it was ridiculously good you would have never made the statement against him in the first place. So you think Scheyer's the 3rd best and you made that argument? Seems pretty silly to me. You must think he's barely top 10 right now at best to start that kind of a debate.
> 
> Nice dodge on the Fredette comment. Well played.


They have a bunch of 6'8 and above players, and one 7 footer, its not Turner's fault that Matta didnt bring in the 'taller' guys.

And what dodge on the Fredette comment? I didnt even see any Fredette comments, what does Fredette have to do with Turner and Scheyer?

Your second paragraph makes absolutely no sense. Lets go over this again, my statement was Scheyer being the second best guard in the nation, sorry I am not buying it, but somehow you were able to deduce that from that statement that I dont think he's top 10 right now. Brilliant deductive skills I must say. Are you a lawyer or law student perhaps?


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## coolpohle

It does make sense - obviously I'm saying that if you're going to make a huge fuss about a guy not being a top 2 guard right now, you must think he's probably top 10 at best. Otherwise, you wouldn't be making the argument because that would just be silly. So you're saying that you would make a huge debate over this if you think he's the 3rd best? Wow.


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## HB

The problem is you do realize you are putting words in my mouth right. Unless of course you can read minds, theres absolutely way you could come to that conclusion from reading my statement. And its quite silly actually, so because I disagree with you that he's not the second best guard in the nation means I think he is not in the top 10. WTH kinda logic is that?

I AM MAKING THE ARGUMENT BECAUSE EVAN TURNER IS HAVING A BETTER SEASON. GEEZ!!!


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## coolpohle

It's simple logic really - why would you make such an argument over a statement about Scheyer not being a top two guard right now if you thought he was the 3rd best? That wouldn't make sense. You would have to think he's much worse than that. Otherwise it's just silly to argue that statement in the first place. If that goes over your head, there isn't much else I can do for ya.

I mean, you know how much I will argue topics with people, but if I picked marginal battles as well? Then this forum would be really messy.


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## HB

Nvm

WVU loses yet again, looks like Notre Dame has gotten their signature win. Harangody shoots 3s now, very interesting.


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## coolpohle

Yeah, I always thought Harangody had an ugly jump shot but they've been going down lately. Maybe trying to impress the scouts a bit.


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## Geaux Tigers

Tennessee is having a time against Kansas without some key players. Pulling for the SEC upset in this one.


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## Geaux Tigers

This game is a great example of why I love Sherron Collins. I'm not sure there is another player in the nation that means as much to his team as he does. He is the engine for this Kansas team. Collins completely took over the last 5 minutes of the half vs Tennessee to tie the game.


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## UD40

Temple and URI slugged it out. Temple won, 68-64 in OT.

Rhody was ice cold from the line in this one, which turned out too be their downfall in this one.


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## HB

I feel good UNC wont drop out of the top 25, lol I know coolpohle wont have us in his, but way too many good teams losing this week to drastically affect the coaches rankings. UNC should be in the top 25. Guess UK is 1 with Kansas' loss. Tenn with a huge win despite all the negativity going on right now.


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## Geaux Tigers

Tennessee upsets Kansas without 4 players?


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## TYO23

I cant believe we lost...tyshawn taylor really hurts this team. And the morris twins disappeared today. No words can express my disappointment with how we played today.


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## SheriffKilla

Ya kansas didnt play that well today, but I should have known they werent gonna show up since I had them as the lock of the day


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## Willo

Teams play well through adversity sometimes. Will be interesting to see what happens when Tennessee faces someone who isn't Kansas. Auburn will do nicely.


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## HB

Maryland beat FSU, lol you should have seen Vasquez' reaction, that guy's a clown.


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## TM

clown? i was thinking more of a arrogant jerk


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## coolpohle

HB said:


> I feel good UNC wont drop out of the top 25, lol I know coolpohle wont have us in his, but way too many good teams losing this week to drastically affect the coaches rankings. UNC should be in the top 25. Guess UK is 1 with Kansas' loss. Tenn with a huge win despite all the negativity going on right now.


What have they done to deserve it? On Monday you said they didn't deserve to be in, and they haven't played a game since then, so what makes them deserving now? The fact that other teams have lost since then? They are 11-4 and have only beaten one tournament team all season.


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## HB

coolpohle said:


> What have they done to deserve it? On Monday you said they didn't deserve to be in, and they haven't played a game since then, so what makes them deserving now? The fact that other teams have lost since then? They are 11-4 and have only beaten one tournament team all season.


They dont by my books, but since I dont have any influence on USA/ESPN/coaches poll it doesnt really matter. I am glad ACC games are coming up though, they should be able to rack up more wins against tournament teams.


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## TM

Is Drew going to be the main PG?


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## HB

No other choice


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## rocketeer

HB said:


> Guess UK is 1 with Kansas' loss.


is there a reason for kentucky to jump over texas to the top spot?


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## TM

what the heck was Vasquez doing? mark jackson shimmy impersonation? what a moron.


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## HB

rocketeer said:


> is there a reason for kentucky to jump over texas to the top spot?


More wins

And yeah that was a shimmy lol


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## rocketeer

HB said:


> More wins


so that's a no?

i'm sure you personally rank kentucky #1, but that's where texas will be in the new poll.


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## coolpohle

Texas has definitely been the more impressive team...just when I start to get some confidence in Kentucky they struggle mightily with lowly Georgia at home.


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## Geaux Tigers

That Georgia team is a little better than people realize. They are very tough and athletic. UK should've played much better but it wasn't a duckwalk.

Also I mentioed to HB in another thread how good UT's team perimeter defense was and today they displayed it. JP Prince is so tough to handle with his long arms and athletic ability.


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## coolpohle

I love when people try and talk up bad teams. Georgia has a home loss to (gulp) Wofford and lost to Missouri by 28. Duckwalk? Absolutely it should have been if you're the #1 team in the nation.


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## HB

Dont really care who is #1 or #2. Dont like either team , I just figure they probably put the team with more wins at 1.


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## Geaux Tigers

coolpohle said:


> I love when people try and talk up bad teams. Georgia has a home loss to (gulp) Wofford and lost to Missouri by 28. Duckwalk? Absolutely it should have been if you're the #1 team in the nation.


UK is a young team. I didn't talk Georgia up. I'm just saying that in conference play especially the conference opener against a team that has those type of athletes bumps in the road can happen. Now if they lost that's another story entirely. Don't put words in my mouth. Don't put anything in my mouth for that matter.


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## Geaux Tigers

Drew II is having one of the best games I've seen from him this year.


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## coolpohle

Geaux Tigers said:


> UK is a young team. I didn't talk Georgia up. I'm just saying that in conference play especially the conference opener against a team that has those type of athletes bumps in the road can happen. Now if they lost that's another story entirely. Don't put words in my mouth. Don't put anything in my mouth for that matter.


They've had a lot of bumps in the road. Clearly they aren't the best team in the country.


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## Willo

1. Kentucky has been playing people close, but winning all year. As long as they can keep doing that, they're still a good team.
2. Wofford is bad, but not as terrible as cool makes them out to be. Not a team that you should lose to, but we're not talking about a Maryland Eastern Shore or an Alcorn State, either.
3. Georgia beat Georgia Tech and Illinois, so maybe they play better against bigger name opponents. That wouldn't be, you know, unheard of.


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## HB

Hey lookie lookie we are 12-4 and just handed VT their second loss. Go Heels lol

That Clemson game if we win should quell all that talk about not beating tournament teams oh by the way coolpohle, the Heels beat MSU and OSU, why do you keep saying they've only beat one tourney team? Heck VT probably makes it too.


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## Geaux Tigers

I dont know if VT makes the tourney. They don't have a second option at all. Great defense though.


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## Geaux Tigers

It's time for Mississippi State to be ranked. They have a solid club and when they are hot from 3 they are downright destructive. Not to mention having one of, if not the, best defensive bigman in the country in Jarvis Varnardo.


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## Willo

If there was ever a week to break into the top 25, this would be it.


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## coolpohle

Willo said:


> 1. Kentucky has been playing people close, but winning all year. As long as they can keep doing that, they're still a good team.
> 2. Wofford is bad, but not as terrible as cool makes them out to be. Not a team that you should lose to, but we're not talking about a Maryland Eastern Shore or an Alcorn State, either.
> 3. Georgia beat Georgia Tech and Illinois, so maybe they play better against bigger name opponents. That wouldn't be, you know, unheard of.


I'm not saying they aren't a good team. We're debating if they're the #1 team. Playing a bunch of teams close, especially when you haven't played that tough of a schedule isn't all that impressive.

I never said Wofford was terrible. In fact, they are in my latest bracketology. But an SEC team at home against them - they need to win that one.

Georgia Tech and Illinois were both home games. They sure didn't play up when they traveled to Missouri.


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## coolpohle

Geaux Tigers said:


> I dont know if VT makes the tourney. They don't have a second option at all. Great defense though.


They play a terrible non conference schedule every season and it kills their RPI and always puts them on the outside looking in. Someone needs to explain to whoever does their scheduling that if you don't want to schedule tough that's okay - but you can't schedule seven games against sub 250+ teams. You leave yourself with such an uphill battle.


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## coolpohle

Geaux Tigers said:


> It's time for Mississippi State to be ranked. They have a solid club and when they are hot from 3 they are downright destructive. Not to mention having one of, if not the, best defensive bigman in the country in Jarvis Varnardo.


Well, you could pretty much say when any team is hot from 3 they are destructive. I think they're definitely close to top 25 but not a must have. They have some shaky losses.


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## coolpohle

HB said:


> Hey lookie lookie we are 12-4 and just handed VT their second loss. Go Heels lol
> 
> That Clemson game if we win should quell all that talk about not beating tournament teams oh by the way coolpohle, the Heels beat MSU and OSU, why do you keep saying they've only beat one tourney team? Heck VT probably makes it too.


Va Tech will have a tough time getting in because of their OOC scheduling which I discussed in a recent post. Ohio St. is going to have a tough time making it in as well - now 1-3 in conference with 3 of their next 4 realistic losses: @ Purdue, vs. Wisconsin, @ West Virginia.

I think UNC will make it in but I think it's a lot closer than most people realize.


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## Willo

It does if you keep finding ways to win. The SEC is a good conference, it shouldn't be too hard to see if they are legit or not.

I still think Texas is No. 1, but until they lose, I have them as No. 2.


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## HB

Lol at thinking UNC will make it in. They are a lock. OSU and MSU were ranked when they beat them, and there's no way UNC is going to go to conference and lose every game to the likes of FSU, MD, CLEM and Gtech. Notice I didnt even mention Duke. All those teams will be in the tourney.


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## coolpohle

Willo said:


> It does if you keep finding ways to win. The SEC is a good conference, it shouldn't be too hard to see if they are legit or not.
> 
> I still think Texas is No. 1, but until they lose, I have them as No. 2.


Well, it depends what you mean by legit or not. Do I think they can win the national championship? Yes, I do. Yes, they're winning games which is good and all, but you also have to look at the schedule. Their toughest game all season has been UConn (the 6th best team imo in the Big East) on a neutral court. They should be undefeated. Considering how they've played against Miami Ohio, Stanford, and Georgia I don't see how you can't have some doubts about them.

I mean, if we're giving teams credit for just winning games, why isn't Miami in everyone's top 10?


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## coolpohle

HB said:


> Lol at thinking UNC will make it in. They are a lock. OSU and MSU were ranked when they beat them, and there's no way UNC is going to go to conference and lose every game to the likes of FSU, MD, CLEM and Gtech. Notice I didnt even mention Duke. All those teams will be in the tourney.


Surely they aren't a lock. Their projected end of season RPI is currently in the high 50s, with a projected record by most being around 19-12 and 8-8. If they can lose to Charleston, surely they can lose games to the teams you mentioned.

And no, Maryland will most likely not be in the tourney. No notable wins OOC and they have a home loss to William & Mary (and don't jump on me Willo, I know W&M is good but that's a game Maryland - who was a 12 point favorite for that game absolutely has to win as a bubble team). They have lots left to do.


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## HB

MD just beat a ranked FSU team. How's that not notable?


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## coolpohle

HB said:


> MD just beat a ranked FSU team. How's that not notable?


I said out of conference.


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## Geaux Tigers

coolpohle said:


> *Well, you could pretty much say when any team is hot from 3 they are destructive.* I think they're definitely close to top 25 but not a must have. They have some shaky losses.


:|


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## Willo

coolpohle said:


> Surely they aren't a lock. Their projected end of season RPI is currently in the high 50s, with a projected record by most being around 19-12 and 8-8. If they can lose to Charleston, surely they can lose games to the teams you mentioned.
> 
> And no, Maryland will most likely not be in the tourney. No notable wins OOC and they have a home loss to William & Mary (and don't jump on me Willo, I know W&M is good but that's a game Maryland - who was a 12 point favorite for that game absolutely has to win as a bubble team). They have lots left to do.


Honestly, I think that the loss to Cincinnati is going to be much worse in the eyes of the committee. Maryland's tournament hopes lie in being above .500 in the ACC.


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## coolpohle

Cincinnati - neutral site...William & Mary - home loss.


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## coolpohle

HB said:


> Lol at thinking UNC will make it in. They are a lock. OSU and MSU were ranked when they beat them, and there's no way UNC is going to go to conference and lose every game to the likes of FSU, MD, CLEM and Gtech. Notice I didnt even mention Duke. All those teams will be in the tourney.


Time to reconsider!!!


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## HB

They wont lose every game, but our chances do look shaky now. Its just weird how all of a sudden Roy's terrible when he lost like 80% of his offense to the NBA last year. UNC isnt allowed to struggle I guess? Its a down year, we'll be back.


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## bball2223

We started off slow last year in conference play, but this year our chances are looking bleak. We need guards because we have zero right now.


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## coolpohle

HB said:


> They wont lose every game, but our chances do look shaky now. Its just weird how all of a sudden Roy's terrible when he lost like 80% of his offense to the NBA last year. UNC isnt allowed to struggle I guess? Its a down year, we'll be back.


And like usual I saw it before everyone else. UNC's bracket matrix average? 4 seed. Mine? 11 seed. Yup.

When UNC is in a down year, they win 18 games. When Wisconsin's in a down year, they win 30. That's why Roy isn't a great coach, and why Bo is.


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## HB

Lol when has Bo ever been in a down year? They play in the freaking Big 10 for goodness sakes, Nimreitz commented somewhere that Wisconsin usually gets the best talent in the WI, MN area, which is true. Might not be all Americans, but they are the cream of the crop in that region. And again coaches are not measured by conference wins, at least not great coaches, nobody outside of Wisconsin, heck there's no media pundit (ya know the ones you easily dismiss) will tell you that the current coach with the winningnest percentage in college basketball is not a better coach than some guy who has never been to a final four. Capisce?


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## bball2223

coolpohle said:


> When Wisconsin's in a down year, they win 30.


:laugh: at a down year. Bo's a terrific coach, but I'm sure he would trade all these regular season wins for two rings.


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## coolpohle

You're not going to win national championships with that talent! If you can get to the tournament and win a game with the likes that he's had, that's like winning a ring.


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## coolpohle

HB said:


> Lol when has Bo ever been in a down year? They play in the freaking Big 10 for goodness sakes, Nimreitz commented somewhere that Wisconsin usually gets the best talent in the WI, MN area, which is true. Might not be all Americans, but they are the cream of the crop in that region. And again coaches are not measured by conference wins, at least not great coaches, nobody outside of Wisconsin, heck there's no media pundit (ya know the ones you easily dismiss) will tell you that the current coach with the winningnest percentage in college basketball is not a better coach than some guy who has never been to a final four. Capisce?


A down year? Like when they're projected to finish in the bottom half of the Big Ten and still win 30 games?

We certainly don't get all the best WI talent. Maymon, Blue both going to Marquette. Lucious to Michigan St. Mitchell to St. Louis, etc.


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## HB

But I could name the Tuckers, Landrys, Butch', Bohannans, Hughes', I forgot Alando's running mate in the backcourt, man WI has not been devoid of talent. You dont get ranked number 1 for just winning games.


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## coolpohle

So we've had three NBA players in his 9 seasons? Roy has more than that in his starting lineup on this crappy UNC team! lolol


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## apelman42

HB said:


> But I could name the Tuckers, Landrys, Butch', Bohannans, Hughes', I forgot Alando's running mate in the backcourt, man WI has not been devoid of talent. You dont get ranked number 1 for just winning games.


Ehh, you mean Devin Harris? The Devin Harris that is on your supposedly favorite NBA team?


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## HB

Oh yeah that guy too, but no not Devin, the guy with the funky hair cut that was their best shooter. I forget his name.


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