# Pacers 2015 Offseason Thread



## Knick Killer

> Whether Roy Hibbert returns to the Indiana Pacers next season is still a mystery.
> 
> But perhaps a hint was given Wednesday when Colts linebacker Robert Mathis posted a promotion for the annual Celebrity Softball Challenge at Victory Field.
> 
> Hibbert, who has been a staple in the event since 2009, was absent from the poster. Pacers George Hill and Paul George are billed along with Mathis and Colts teammate Dwayne Allen. But no Hibbert.
> 
> Now, that doesn't mean Hibbert won't be in attendance June 4, but it certainly raises some eyebrows from people trying to read the tea leaves on Hibbert's offseason intentions.


http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2015/04/23/roy-hibbert-indiana-pacers-contract-option-softball/26230571/

Hmmmm...


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## Knick Killer

> When the Indiana Pacers held exit meetings after the season, the six players due to become free agents expressed a desire to return for the 2015-16 campaign, according to Larry Bird, the team's president of basketball operations.
> 
> "We've got so much money to spend, it's according to what they want," Bird said. "Some guys told me they didn't care what they got. They wanted to get paid, but they wanted to be here, too. So that makes you feel good."
> 
> All six wanting to come back, even after a season in which Indiana struggled and missed the playoffs, speaks to the culture and foundation built by the Pacers. However, not everyone will return as Indiana tries to build a new identity next year.
> 
> Who stays? Who's on the fence? And who should've already broken their condo or apartment lease? Let's attempt to answer these questions by predicting the Pacers' priorities once the free agent market opens July 1.


http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2015/04/18/pacers-free-agents-who-stays-who-goes-stuckey-allen-scola-sloan-watson-copeland-/26004965/

Good article. Breaks down our 6 free agents and whether or not we will/should bring them back.


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## R-Star

I hate this offseason already.


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## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> I hate this offseason already.



Agreed. Worst part is, if West and Hibbert both pick up their player options, our hands are essentially tied. Unless we make a big trade I can't see this team looking much different next season.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> Agreed. Worst part is, if West and Hibbert both pick up their player options, our hands are essentially tied. Unless we make a big trade I can't see this team looking much different next season.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Personally I'd like to see both of them pick it up. The idea of losing Hibbert for nothing sounds insane to me, and I can't see us upgrading much over West.

We could pick up a nice player in the draft, but I'm almost positive Bird is going to try to run out Hibbert and draft Frank Kaminsky.


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## Bogg

I can't tell if Rondo's a worthwhile reclamation project for Indy after his Dallas meltdown or not.


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## R-Star

Bogg said:


> I can't tell if Rondo's a worthwhile reclamation project for Indy after his Dallas meltdown or not.


I would give him a go, but I think LA is going to max him out.


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## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> Personally I'd like to see both of them pick it up. The idea of losing Hibbert for nothing sounds insane to me, and I can't see us upgrading much over West.
> 
> We could pick up a nice player in the draft, but I'm almost positive Bird is going to try to run out Hibbert and draft Frank Kaminsky.


Losing Hibbert would free up $15 million. That in itself, is a great return for him.

As for Rondo, we've been linked to being interested in him for quite some time. However, I'm sure Larry will be turned off by Rondo's relationship with Rick Carlisle(who Larry knows very well). Wouldn't hate to see him in Indy but I wouldn't expect it.


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## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> Losing Hibbert would free up $15 million. That in itself, is a great return for him.
> 
> As for Rondo, we've been linked to being interested in him for quite some time. However, I'm sure Larry will be turned off by Rondo's relationship with Rick Carlisle(who Larry knows very well). Wouldn't hate to see him in Indy but I wouldn't expect it.


15 million dollars for whom though? Who are we going to go after?

We've had 1 big free agent signing in a decade and you want him to opt out.


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## Basel

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/598998846392242177
Maybe @R-Star won't have to worry about them getting Frank the Tank.


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## Bogg

Basel said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/598998846392242177
> Maybe @R-Star won't have to worry about them getting Frank the Tank.


Nah, 11's high for Payne. Indy'll still draft Kaminsky, but they'll make room for him in the rotation by swapping Hibbert to Boston for the 16th pick and draft Payne there.


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## R-Star

Bogg said:


> Nah, 11's high for Payne. Indy'll still draft Kaminsky, but they'll make room for him in the rotation by swapping Hibbert to Boston for the 16th pick and draft Payne there.


I honestly wouldn't even be surprised. Kill me now. 

Funny enough, nbadraft.net compares Payne to George Hill. That's just great.


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## Bogg

R-Star said:


> I honestly wouldn't even be surprised. Kill me now.
> 
> Funny enough, nbadraft.net compares Payne to George Hill. That's just great.


I, for one, am thoroughly excited for the Fun-'N-Gun Pacers.


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## R-Star

Bogg said:


> I, for one, am thoroughly excited for the Fun-'N-Gun Pacers.


A run and gun team from a defense first coach who's teams have been at the league bottom in most offensive categories since he hired on. It's going to go great.


But in reality, Larry Bird is just going senile and he's going to ruin the team before he leaves again.


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## Dissonance

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/616117220289089536

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/616129885451366400


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## Knick Killer

I'd be excited if he wasn't awful an awful defender.


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## Pacers Fan

I'm not sure how I feel about Ellis. If it's 3 years/$32 mil, that's pretty good value considering he's an impact player. However, he's also a bit of a headcase, doesn't play D, and can't shoot the 3 well. I want to think he'd work well in the starting lineup with Hill, but Hill's not that great off the ball. We also have an incredibly thin frontline to address with that cap space now with West likely out and us moving Hibbert for probably nothing. I'm not very excited about Stanko, Whittington, and Scola seeing extended minutes next year.

I guess at the end of the day it'd just be nice signing a free agent with a name in Indiana. Aside from David West, we never sign good free agents.


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## RollWithEm

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/616341602139770880


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## Pacers Fan

All our free agent targets are dropping like flies. Larry Bird is too cheap for this kind of action. I'm starting to worry about Sacramento stealing Ellis, as well. Hopefully the Kings sign Rondo so Ellis comes to Indy, and the Clippers re-sign Jordan so Dallas needs some Roy Hibbert.


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## RollWithEm

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/616659420966191104


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## Wilt_The_Stilt

Pacers Fan said:


> All our free agent targets are dropping like flies. Larry Bird is too cheap for this kind of action. I'm starting to worry about Sacramento stealing Ellis, as well. Hopefully the Kings sign Rondo so Ellis comes to Indy, and the Clippers re-sign Jordan so Dallas needs some Roy Hibbert.


I wonder if the Lakers would be interested in Hibbert as well if they strike out. Not sure how I feel about it, but I could see it happening.


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## Fergus

Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> I wonder if the Lakers would be interested in Hibbert as well if they strike out. Not sure how I feel about it, but I could see it happening.


Hibbert is reported to have been traded to the Lakers. I have not seen anything official about what the Pacers get back, but it was not rumored to be a lot. This ends up freeing some salary for the Pacers and letting them run more.


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## Wiz

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/617756060577857536


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## Knick Killer

Hibbert desperately needed a change of scenery. I don't know what happened to the Hibbert that was a beast against the Heat 2-3 years ago. He just seemed to have lost all confidence and looks nothing like the All-Star he used to be. Hopefully he gets his career back on track in LA.



Glad to see we're bringing back Stuckey. He quietly had a great season last year and deserved a solid payday.


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## RollWithEm

So then who are Indy's big men now?


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## hobojoe

RollWithEm said:


> So then who are Indy's big men now?


We're going to see how ready Turner is, that's for sure. I am excited to see it.


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## Knick Killer

hobojoe said:


> We're going to see how ready Turner is, that's for sure. I am excited to see it.


He's only 19. I don't see him being ready for a major role yet.


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## hobojoe

Knick Killer said:


> He's only 19. I don't see him being ready for a major role yet.


Ready or not, I think he's going to get every opportunity to learn on the job.


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## RollWithEm

hobojoe said:


> We're going to see how ready Turner is, that's for sure. I am excited to see it.





Knick Killer said:


> He's only 19. I don't see him being ready for a major role yet.





hobojoe said:


> Ready or not, I think he's going to get every opportunity to learn on the job.


Who else?


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## Pacers Fan

RollWithEm said:


> So then who are Indy's big men now?


Lavoy Allen, Ian Mahinmi, and Myles Turner. Believe it or not, Allen's solid. He's a very good rebounder, decent defensively, and has a pretty good mid-range J. I honestly think he's our starter next year and will log around 20-25 mpg. Mahinmi should be good for 25 mpg as well. I know we were targeting George to play 10-15 mpg at PF, but it's looking like it might have to be more than that.

I don't think Turner's ready to be a 3rd big, yet. He looked good in his first summer league game, but he's incredibly raw. His jump shot is absolutely NBA ready and he showed one great turnaround jumper out of the post, but that's about it. He's a shot blocker, but he looks like a JaVale McGee type of shot blocker in that he tries to swat everything and never really goes up straight. He's also pretty weak defending the post and I'm a bit concerned about his rebounding on the pro level.

I'm assuming we're probably going to use the rest of the space Hibbert left us to re-sign Luis Scola. Otherwise, Shayne Whittington might come back, and we're looking at finally signing Stanko Barac. It's a sad state of affairs for your frontline when you either need to sign a guy named Stanko or you're desperately hoping the Lakers include Robert Sacre as a throw-in.


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## Bogg

Pacers Fan said:


> Lavoy Allen, Ian Mahinmi, and Myles Turner. Believe it or not, Allen's solid. He's a very good rebounder, decent defensively, and has a pretty good mid-range J. I honestly think he's our starter next year and will log around 20-25 mpg. Mahinmi should be good for 25 mpg as well. I know we were targeting George to play 10-15 mpg at PF, but it's looking like it might have to be more than that.
> 
> I don't think Turner's ready to be a 3rd big, yet. He looked good in his first summer league game, but he's incredibly raw. His jump shot is absolutely NBA ready and he showed one great turnaround jumper out of the post, but that's about it. He's a shot blocker, but he looks like a JaVale McGee type of shot blocker in that he tries to swat everything and never really goes up straight. He's also pretty weak defending the post and I'm a bit concerned about his rebounding on the pro level.
> 
> I'm assuming we're probably going to use the rest of the space Hibbert left us to re-sign Luis Scola. Otherwise, Shayne Whittington might come back, and we're looking at finally signing Stanko Barac. It's a sad state of affairs for your frontline when you either need to sign a guy named Stanko or you're desperately hoping the Lakers include Robert Sacre as a throw-in.


Boston's got about one more rotation big than they can reasonably play and a shortage of roster spots after the Johnson and Jerebko signings. Throw us a protected first for Sullinger.


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## Pacers Fan

Bogg said:


> Boston's got about one more rotation big than they can reasonably play and a shortage of roster spots after the Johnson and Jerebko signings. Throw us a protected first for Sullinger.


I know we want our bigs to take a lot more jump shots, but I think the end goal is for them to actually make those jump shots. Sullinger only fits in with one of those two points.


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## Bogg

Pacers Fan said:


> I know we want our bigs to take a lot more jump shots, but I think the end goal is for them to actually make those jump shots. Sullinger only fits in with one of those two points.


Olynyk then, whatever.


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## Knick Killer

> The Indiana Pacers have reached an agreement to acquire forward Chase Budinger in a trade with the Minnesota Timberwolves, league sources told Yahoo Sports.
> 
> As part of the deal, Indiana will send forward Damjan Rudez to Minnesota, league sources told Yahoo Sports.
> 
> Budinger gives the Pacers an additional shooting threat to spread the floor and a versatile small forward who lost playing time with the glut of highly talented young wing players in Minnesota.
> 
> Budinger, 27, averaged 6.8 points in 19 minutes a game for the T'wolves last season. In six NBA seasons, including three years in Houston and Minnesota, Budinger has averaged 8.6 points and nearly 36 percent shooting from 3-point range.
> 
> Rudez, 29, is from Croatia and came to the NBA a year ago after several professional seasons in Europe. He's shown a penchant for providing value at the stretch-4 position, shooting 40 percent on 3-pointers for the Pacers last season.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--pacers-finalizing-trade-to-acquire-chase-budinger-203116343.html

Love this trade. Low risk as he's in the final year of his contract but could be a high reward if he doesn't have anymore knee problems.


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## Bogg

Knick Killer said:


> http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--pacers-finalizing-trade-to-acquire-chase-budinger-203116343.html
> 
> Love this trade. Low risk as he's in the final year of his contract but could be a high reward if he doesn't have anymore knee problems.


Seems a little weird to me, since Budinger is more of a swingman than a stretch-4, and (while I admit I didn't watch the Pacers much at all) it looks like Rudez showed some promise as exactly that. Even with the Jordan Hill signing, Indy's frontcourt looks awfully thin at this point.


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## Knick Killer

Bogg said:


> Seems a little weird to me, since Budinger is more of a swingman than a stretch-4, and (while I admit I didn't watch the Pacers much at all) it looks like Rudez showed some promise as exactly that. Even with the Jordan Hill signing, Indy's frontcourt looks awfully thin at this point.


Awfully thin would be an understatement. I'm sure there will be more moves to come to fix that but if not, we'll be in trouble.


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## Pacers Fan

Bogg said:


> Seems a little weird to me, since Budinger is more of a swingman than a stretch-4, and (while I admit I didn't watch the Pacers much at all) it looks like Rudez showed some promise as exactly that. Even with the Jordan Hill signing, Indy's frontcourt looks awfully thin at this point.


I think we're trying to collect a lot of versatile players so we can trap/switch/double more often on defense. Rudez had an awesome jumper, but Budinger's not a bad shooter and he's better at the rest of the game than Damo. I'm a little woried about his knees, but at least he's expiring.

From what I've read recently, we're looking at starting Paul George at the 4 and giving him 20-25 minutes there, with Miles/Budinger/Solo filling in at the 3. From there, we can give J-Hill/Mahinmi/Allen each around 18-25 mpg to keep them fresh, with Myles Turner and Shayne Whittington filling in the rest.

Still not sure how I feel about this. Our defense is going to be the exact opposite of how we've played the last few years. We have an outstanding collection of guys who can do 2 out of 3 of isolation, cutting, and shooting at the 1-3, but I wonder if we have enough basketballs to go around. We have zero post offense and not too much rim protection if Jordan Hill is starting. Even in the new NBA, I don't think that puts us any higher than 5th-6th in the East.


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## Bogg

Pacers Fan said:


> I think we're trying to collect a lot of versatile players so we can trap/switch/double more often on defense. Rudez had an awesome jumper, but Budinger's not a bad shooter and he's better at the rest of the game than Damo. I'm a little woried about his knees, but at least he's expiring.
> 
> From what I've read recently, we're looking at starting Paul George at the 4 and giving him 20-25 minutes there, with Miles/Budinger/Solo filling in at the 3. From there, we can give J-Hill/Mahinmi/Allen each around 18-25 mpg to keep them fresh, with Myles Turner and Shayne Whittington filling in the rest.
> 
> Still not sure how I feel about this. Our defense is going to be the exact opposite of how we've played the last few years. We have an outstanding collection of guys who can do 2 out of 3 of isolation, cutting, and shooting at the 1-3, but I wonder if we have enough basketballs to go around. We have zero post offense and not too much rim protection if Jordan Hill is starting. Even in the new NBA, I don't think that puts us any higher than 5th-6th in the East.


Eh, I dunno. I mean, that works with Draymond Green and Andre Iguodala, but I'm skeptical about how it'll work with Chase Budinger and CJ Miles. If Paul George is healthy he'll get them to the playoffs regardless, but I'm not bullish on what the Pacers have done this summer.


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## Pacers Fan

Bogg said:


> Eh, I dunno. I mean, that works with Draymond Green and Andre Iguodala, but I'm skeptical about how it'll work with Chase Budinger and CJ Miles. If Paul George is healthy he'll get them to the playoffs regardless, but I'm not bullish on what the Pacers have done this summer.


I agree. Golden State had some stellar defenders to make their defense work (and Curry wasn't half bad, either). Paul George is pretty good when he doesn't take plays off, and George and Solomon Hill are above average defenders. Otherwise, no one's scared of Monta Ellis, Rodney Stuckey, CJ Miles, Chase Budinger, and Joseph Young on the defensive end. They're all probably average to below-average on defense, and one mental lapse or missed rotation will cause our entire defense to break down.

The frontcourt isn't any better on D. Mahinmi's solid, but Turner won't be able to defend the pick & roll, and Allen/J-Hill aren't going to protect the paint. Not one of them is particularly smart on D, either.

Rather than being top-ten in defense and bottom-ten in offense, I worry that we're going to be top-ten in offense and bottom-ten in defense. Hopefully Vogel continues to emphasize D. These guys can score on their own.


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## R-Star

Got to love the Bird/George drama going on right now. 

Larry seems like he's hell bent on screwing this team up.


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## Pacers Fan

Anyone else excited to bring in Rakeem Christmas and Glenn Robinson III? I doubt either will see any playing time next season, but it's nice having some marginal prospects on this team (Young, Turner, Solo, Whittington). Hopefully some of them turn into rotation players down the line.

I'm not sure this team has ever had a GM as active as Kevin Pritchard. On one hand, it's going to be a strange year with all the turnover, but I doube anyone could have handled the post-Hibbert/West debacle better. I still feel like we need a vet on the roster, sort of like Rasual Butler from 2013. Our oldest players are in the 28-30 range, and I'm not sure how much of a leader Monta Ellis is.


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## R-Star

Pacers Fan said:


> Anyone else excited to bring in Rakeem Christmas and Glenn Robinson III? I doubt either will see any playing time next season, but it's nice having some marginal prospects on this team (Young, Turner, Solo, Whittington). Hopefully some of them turn into rotation players down the line.
> 
> I'm not sure this team has ever had a GM as active as Kevin Pritchard. On one hand, it's going to be a strange year with all the turnover, but I doube anyone could have handled the post-Hibbert/West debacle better. I still feel like we need a vet on the roster, sort of like Rasual Butler from 2013. Our oldest players are in the 28-30 range, and I'm not sure how much of a leader Monta Ellis is.


I wanted Robinson III at the draft, and we got Christmas for cheap so I agree there's a lot to like about those moves. Also, with us picking up a D-League team we could let some of the young kids get some seasoning down there before trying to throw them on the roster full time.


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## 29380

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/647152772907970560


> "I’m not too thrilled about it, but I told them I’m open to the situation. I’m open to the change, so we’ll see how it goes. We’ll see how it goes during training camp."
> 
> "Because that’s what I am (a small forward), I pride myself on being a ballplayer first and foremost. But there’s a difference playing the four, and I know that’s the way the league is going, having stretch fours and perimeter-oriented big men, but those guys have been doing that for years and have size on me and strength on me. So it’s gonna be an adjustment. And I’m just used to being at the three, and that’s what made me special is just being able to guard perimeter guys."


http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snh7ku


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## R-Star

Coach Fish said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/647152772907970560
> 
> 
> http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snh7ku


I really don't know why Larry Bird won't just let Vogel do his job. 

Paul George playing heavy minutes at the 4 is idiotic.


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## 29380

*After first preseason game, Paul George: "I don’t know if I’m cut out for a four spot"*


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## Bogg

This will not end well


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## Pacers Fan

Bogg said:


> This will not end well


Worst-case scenario, this ends up like the Oladipo-PG experiment in Orlando. It's a failure, but a good growing experience. It'll help Paul diversify his game some more and play the 4 in spot minutes during the game.

And yes, I'm ignoring the actual worst-case scenario, which is George demanding a trade to the Lakers for Nick Young and Jordan Clarkson.

I still think it's a good idea for 8-10 minutes per game, but we should be starting Jordan Hill or Lavoy Allen.

...this is going to be a rough season.


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