# Knicks @ Raptors, Nov. 24



## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

<center>

















*New York Knicks* (5-5) @ *Toronto Raptors* (5-7)
November 24th, 2004, 7:00 PM EST
The Score






































*Rafer Alston, Vince Carter, Lamond Murray, Chris Bosh, Loren Woods*





































*Stephon Marbury, Jamal Crawford, Tim Thomas, Kurt Thomas, Nazr Mohammed*


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Luckily for us the knicks also played yesterday. I dont know what to expect from this game, T-Thomas, K-Thomas and Mohammed will give us problems. Our bigs really have to step up. I dont know what to expect from Vince in this game, if the fans continue to boo him, it might be ugly


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> I dont know what to expect from Vince in this game, if the fans continue to boo him, it might be ugly


You really think that is affecting his game? They only boo when he misses shots or plays badly. As soon as he starts hitting or playing well they cheer. It's not like they won't cut him any slack.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

very toughmatch interior.
for this match up if I were Sam Mitchell I would at times go with a unit of
Pg Alston
SG Carter
SM Bosh
PF Moiso
C Woods

Tim Thomas is a slim atlethic player kinda like Bosh I think Bosh could hold down Thomas
Kurt Thomas very physical can destroy Bosh down low, putting mould help us on the glass and Woods on Mohammad is a better matchup compared to whoever was the C in that game where Muhammad had like 16 rebounds.


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

That lineup last night of Bosh Bonner and Sow with Milt and Rafer was an interesting one that I would like to see something similar too. 

Also would like to see the Spurs game unit out there together -MO, Lamond, Bosh, Milt, and Rafer. MO and Lamond seem to have gotten quite used to playing together, and work well off each other. I was surprised that lineup didn't get any time last night - I guess the reb advantange for Was didn't allow it.


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

Two to worry about...

Kurt Thomas - always kills the Raps so look for him to have a good game.

Jamal Crawford - loves playing against the Raps...I believe he avg'd 27ppg against us last year with Chicago.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

Hopefully the Raptors don't get killed on the boards tonight. Last night when Bosh and Bonner were on the court together I was screaming at the TV for Mitchell to put in Woods for Bonner. When the other team has legit 7 footers on the floor who can rebound, the Bonner-Bosh front court just shouldn't happen.

Should be a fun game to watch with Marbury and Rafer facing off. I think Bosh will have a good game. I don't think they have a big man fast enough to guard him. Someone mentioned putting Bosh on Tim Thomas, not a bad idea, Bosh would destroy Thomas on offense and defense, barring Thomas' jumpshot going redhot for a considerable chunk of the game.

EDIT -- I heard Jalen is back tonight. Is he really coming off the bench?


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Two players who are going to have HUGE GAMES. 

Chris Bosh and Starbury.

Book it.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Any idea on Jalen Rose? Is he going to play tonight?


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> Any idea on Jalen Rose? Is he going to play tonight?


http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Basketball/NBA/Toronto/2004/11/23/727413.html


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## J19 (Nov 16, 2004)

Kurt Thomas can't stop Bosh, Bosh is atheletic and quick, Kurt THomas only dominates slower guys or guys as slow as him



Who ever is going to play on Tim Thomas will have a career night, possibly 30 points or more, I'll tell you Tim Thomas is one of the worst defenders in the NBA, theres no need to put Bosh and Tim Thomas name in the same sentence, Bosh improves each season and each game, Tim Thomas has been the same player from 8 years ago



Marbury/Crawford vs Alston/Vince Carter should be a great match up


Too bad Rose isn't playing he would of dominated Tim Thomas 


Nzar is one fire, guys don't expect much from him but hes all hustle, except alot of offensive rebounding and put backs from


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>J19</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad Rose isn't playing he would of dominated Tim Thomas



He is playing. I think.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Basketball/NBA/Toronto/2004/11/23/727413.html


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## DAllatt (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> 
> 
> You really think that is affecting his game? They only boo when he misses shots or plays badly. As soon as he starts hitting or playing well they cheer. It's not like they won't cut him any slack.


Actually in the second half of the Spurs game he was getting booed every time he touched the ball.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DAllatt</b>!
> Actually in the second half of the Spurs game he was getting booed every time he touched the ball.


Didn't he play like crap against the Spurs?


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## JL2002 (Nov 30, 2003)

Vince had 4 points in the Spurs game......
did he suck in that game?


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

i like mo pete to be in the starting line up... he brings good D and plays hard...


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

honestly I expect us to lose this one we'll get killed on the inside


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

I just don't get it with Loren Woods......

he was worse than horrible in Miami, and he's playing great in Toronto


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Shaq_Diesel</b>!
> I just don't get it with Loren Woods......
> 
> he was worse than horrible in Miami, and he's playing great in Toronto


maybe this system fits him better


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

man, Vince is smokin hot


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## laydee-bawla22 (Jul 15, 2003)

End of the first, 33-28 Raps
VC starts the game shooting well again. 6/7 with 14 pts. Palacio has 6 off the bench He has playing well as of late IMO.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

arroyo missed a point blank lay up


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

man I haven't seen the raps look this sharp since opening night I hope it continues


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

Ya it makes a difference to play at hope


good to see JYD again


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Great first half for the Raptors, this is just one of those games where everything is going in, they kind of slowed down near the end of the half, but still a big lead.

Milt has been playing great, it's great to see him take some of those minutes off of Rafer, so he can stay fresh this year.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

heres comes the 3rd quater :no:


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mr_B</b>!
> heres comes the 3rd quater :no:


*gulp*


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

Matt Bonner 12 points, 7 rebounds, 2 blocks in 21 minutes


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## madman (Oct 20, 2003)

wow why cant they play like this every game?


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Great game, we played a great 1st half, and kept it going in the 2nd half by not letting the Knicks get back in the game. 
Hopefully we'll bring this confidence with us to Saturday's game at NY.


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## Mike1155 (Apr 9, 2004)

Great bounce back game tonight by the Raps. :clap:


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

And this is coming of a game yesterday, shooting 52% as a team pretty impressive. 5 rebs for Araujo in 14 mins. 
Go raps hopefully will keep playing like this


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>madman</b>!
> wow why cant they play like this every game?


I don't think it's that we played that well, one must also take in consideration how bad the Knicks actually played tonight. They were sluggish and were invisible on the defensive end.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

Great game by Vince 22pts in 27 min


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Lets give some credit to palacio, 18 crucial points. Loren Woods with 10 rebs also.


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> Great game by Vince 22pts in 27 min


dont forget his 2 dunks... lets hope this trend continues... :yes: 
I cant say enough about RAFER ALSTON... keep voting for the guy in the ASG...


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Yes I must say, VC's dunk was spectacular. He started the season with what, 1 dunk in his first 5 games? He's had his fair share of dunks since then, even though only one or two of them were in traffic, it's an improvement.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Yup great game today, especially by Vince, Palacio, Bonner, and Murray. This game is just proof of how deep we are.

And what in God's name happened to Chris Bosh's free throw shot?


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>madman</b>!
> wow why cant they play like this every game?


I think the bench is key - when they have a regular rotation seems like they kill teams - bury them in the second.

Raps won every quarter tonight but in the 2nd they won it 30-20


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

WARNING: LONG WINDED POST BELOW!!!

Awesome game. Not as good entertainment value as the Spurs game on Sunday, but nonetheless sweet for a Raptors fan. You really get an idea of how teams in the past have felt getting to play us when Lenny no defense Wilkins ran the show in Toronto. So sweet.

I'll start with the scrubs and work my way through the lineup...

Hoffa did a good job setting picks and (trying) to hit the offensive boards. There were at least two or three occasions I can distinctly remember seeing Araujo follow up another Raptor's shot, being ready for a put back slam but we were shooting so well our shooters never gave Hoffa a chance to touch an offensive rebound. He looked really bad with the ball in his hand but that is obviously only due to lack of playing time. He's just very nervous, and that is to be expected. He and Bonner looked good out there together setting screens all over the place.

Pape Sow looked very impressive. He was hitting the offensive boards HARD, he was all over the place. He even looked alright when fed the ball in a post up situation. I'm not sure who was guarding him, but Sow just backed him in right under the net. So strong. Like Hoffa was a bit jittery with the ball, but that will improve with playing time.

Woods had a very good game. VERY agressive on the boards and had a few blocks including two on the same play on Mohammad.

Lamond Murray and Mo Pete had solid nights. Nothing spectacular, but they did exact what they were supposed to and got a few shots to fall. Mo Pete once again impressed with his defense taking a charge, and Murray had an emphatic block off the backboard (F*** YOU KO!!! YOU RUINED MURRAY'S YEAR LAST YEAR, THIS GUY CAN PLAY!).

Milt the Stilt! Wow! You all saw the box score so you know how well he did. He really snatched the opportunity presented to him by Rafer's foul trouble in the first Q. Got to the freethrow line early and often and that in turn gave him some space to get his jumper going. Well, at least one of Vince Carter's hand picked signings is looking good. He still made a couple stupid passes that led to turnovers, but he made up for it by stealing a few passes of his own on defense.

Bonner had a typical, solid game. Hit some long J's, rebounded well. Wasn't really pressured on defense, guarding JYD a lot of the time he was on the floor, so the Knicks weren't really able to take advantage of his D. Had a nice running hook blowing by Sweetney in the second Q.

Rose wasn't too noticeable tonight but played a smart game, taking close range jump shots and played his typical cagey veteran game, faking and stepping back for a couple long J's.

Bosh didn't get too involved on the offensive end, but hit a few jumpshots and was active on the boards all night. Would have liked to see Bosh get a few more touches when he was matched up against Kurt Thomas but when your jumpshooters are as hot as they were you gotta let them shoot I guess.

Not much to say about Alston, he played just like he has every other game this year. Hit a couple from downtown, but got into foul trouble early and with Palacio playing so well there wasn't much need to give him big minutes.

And Vince Carter was classic Vince tonight. His catch and shoot jumper coming off screens was unstoppable. Ran the floor well and had an impressive windmill off a no look pass from Rose. Yes Carter, this is what you gotta do if you want out! If he keeps playing like he did tonight, he might actually be able to leave Toronto without everyone hating him.

In garbage time Mitchell used a big lineup with Bonner, Sow and Hoffa all on the floor at the same time. I'd like to see Mitchell play Hoffa at the 3 more often, he would help our rebounding and prevent the bigger, stronger PFs from taking advantage of his D.

Everyone on the bench got some burn except Moiso. Not surprising given his performance the past few games. I expect to see a bit of him next game since Hoffa didn't really show too much tonight. And thats something I love about Mitchell. You screw up, you'll be punished, but you'll still get another chance. A refreshing approach as compared to KO's stubborn doghouse ways.

Overall, a good game, but I am a bit concerned this game will leave the Raps with a false sense of confidence. We took a lot of jumpshots tonight and they fell, but that is not going to happen every night (as evidenced by last night's game). We aren't going to face a Lenny Wilkins defense everynight either. IMO Bosh should have seen way more touches in the post.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> . 5 rebs for Araujo in 14 mins.
> Go raps hopefully will keep playing like this


honestly he looked real nervous out there


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## J19 (Nov 16, 2004)

Knicks got owned


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

So where are those knick fans saying the knicks are the best in the atlantic


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## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

looks like all the Vince Haters are sleeping


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>arcade_rida</b>!
> looks like all the Vince Haters are sleeping


He had a good game, what can I say. I still think we have to trade him obviously, maybe he thinks now that if he starts playing well, we'll trade him. The boy can think!


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arcade_rida</b>!
> looks like all the Vince Haters are sleeping


There is nothing to hate when he plays well.

You don't get it, the people hate him for the way he usually plays, they don't hate "him". You're just looking for a fight.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>arcade_rida</b>!
> looks like all the Vince Haters are sleeping


ha ha word


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## JL2002 (Nov 30, 2003)

I think Raps is the best in Atlantic if Vince plays like the last 2 games w/ 1 or 2 dunks to spark up the team..... we have such a deep bench with MoP, Lamond, Marshall, BONNER (YES!), and also Milt at times....

and NO, I'm not saying this because I'm a Raps fan, but i truly thinks we are the best team in the Atlantic....


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

OK.... all you fools sayin, "Where are all the VC haters" and whatnot... wow, I guess the majority of the board hasn't made this clear yet, but let me explain it one more time.

We do not hate Vince Carter as a player, person, whatever. We know what kind of player he is capable of being. In fact, that is WHY we get on his case - because he has so much potential to be a great player, and even more incentive (he <i>does</i> want to get traded, right?), but he goes out on most nights not giving much effort at all, which translates into horrible stats. And no matter what way you look at it, for a player who is supposed to be a franchise player, 14 points a game is horrible.

arcade_rida, you must be blind. Because just about everyone ragging on Vince after the San Antonio game has had great things to say about his play tonight. When he comes out ready to play and put forth the effort he did to win the game, like he did today, we will applaud him. When he goes out there and plays like garbage, which he has done most of the time this season, we will NOT give him a break. Simple as that. That's all we want from him really, consistent effort.


One more thing a_r.... I haven't seen you around lately, at all. So instead of asking us where the "VC haters" went, ask yourself where one of his supporters was while he was playing like trash!


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## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> There is nothing to hate when he plays well.
> ...


Actually I am not looking for a fight.. many people were like you cant forget even though he played well against the Wizards... he still played crap all those other games. In the NBA you cant look back at what you have done, you have to look at the next game. Many posters were like " Vince played well but dont forget about his 2/9 shooting" I am just giving the facts. I don't see them saying how well he played? do you


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## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> OK.... all you fools sayin, "Where are all the VC haters" and whatnot... wow, I guess the majority of the board hasn't made this clear yet, but let me explain it one more time.
> 
> We do not hate Vince Carter as a player, person, whatever. We know what kind of player he is capable of being. In fact, that is WHY we get on his case - because he has so much potential to be a great player, and even more incentive (he <i>does</i> want to get traded, right?), but he goes out on most nights not giving much effort at all, which translates into horrible stats. And no matter what way you look at it, for a player who is supposed to be a franchise player, 14 points a game is horrible.
> ...


What are you talking about. When I said all the VC haters are sleeping, I meant nobody can complement the guy when he has a solid game, but when he doesn't play well we have about 14-20 posters just going at him. No actually I wasn't hating on Vince Carter. I was swormed with posters when I said Vince never had a great offensive night but played great defense and was cheering on his fellow teammates and if you see I have been on I just dont feel like posting sometimes.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arcade_rida</b>!
> 
> 
> What are you talking about. When I said all the VC haters are sleeping, I meant nobody can complement the guy when he has a solid game


Really?



> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> Great game by Vince 22pts in 27 min





> Originally posted by <b>kirk_2003</b>!
> 
> 
> dont forget his 2 dunks... lets hope this trend continues... :yes:
> I cant say enough about RAFER ALSTON... keep voting for the guy in the ASG...





> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> Yes I must say, VC's dunk was spectacular. He started the season with what, 1 dunk in his first 5 games? He's had his fair share of dunks since then, even though only one or two of them were in traffic, it's an improvement.






> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> Yup great game today, especially by Vince, Palacio, Bonner, and Murray. This game is just proof of how deep we are.
> 
> And what in God's name happened to Chris Bosh's free throw shot?





> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> And Vince Carter was classic Vince tonight. His catch and shoot jumper coming off screens was unstoppable. Ran the floor well and had an impressive windmill off a no look pass from Rose. Yes Carter, this is what you gotta do if you want out! If he keeps playing like he did tonight, he might actually be able to leave Toronto without everyone hating him.


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## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

Well anyways... I was glad about the preformance of the team. Milt Palico was great, when Rafer was on the bench because of foul trouble. Jamal Crawford was a non factor this was why we won the game. Nazr and Marbury had great games, but we were able to shut down Crawford. Vince Carter played a great all around game and had some great dunks. Lammond Murray came off the bench to provide some much needed energy. The 2nd unit have been great and even though we dont have Marshall played with a lot of confidence. I knew Bonner was going to be a great power foward in the NBA. I watched him when he was in Florida and he was a great 3 point shooter. I know this is a long shot but I hope he becomes a great 15/7 playing in this league. He desreves every little thing coming to him. He is a hard worker and a model in which many people should follow in. In addition, Sam Mitchell really likes his work ethic and compares himself to the Rim Rocket.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Nazr Mohammed has career nights against us. Dare I think of the playoffs, I don't know how we could contain a high-level centre. Loren Woods gets abused down-low on a regular basis and we don't have a sub at the position that can contribute good defence or even fundamentals. We continue to struggle at the five-spot.

All of this talk from Chuck and Leo about "responding to criticism" makes me wonder what could've happened had New York attempted even a whif of defence tonight. It's easy to look good against a team that isn't trying... been there, done that already this season!

For those ready to sing Carter's praises again, keep in mind that he was guarded off-and-on by Marbury, who he has a huge size advantage over, and he still took four three-point shots and still only got to the line on one possession. But if you want to look at his 22 points and think the Vince Carter of old has returned, feel free. Carter was handed an opportunity to explode tonight and instead he settled for long jumpers and had an open transition dunk. Very little defence tonight from Vince was hidden by the fact that Jamal Crawford and Tim Thomas were unwilling to work for good looks.

Bosh contained the Thomas's tonight without much effort. Neither of them were into the game. Neither managed an offensive rebound and they combined for just ten points. I suppose you can give Chris some credit for that, and some credit for the seven defensive rebounds he managed, but there isn't much to give in a game like this. And he is moving further and further away from the basket as time progresses. Hopefully he doesn't rely too heavily on his jumpshot, as good as it is. We've seen what can happen in that scenario. Dropped a couple of nice dimes tonight, though. He was involved on offense despite facing-up for most of the night.

Matt Bonner is a stud. Give this kid a contract!

Milt Palacio with 18/7?! I'm going to have to stop calling him Pistachio.

Improved shooting by Peterson and Murray. Effort was basically the same as last contest, they just hit their shots. Murray's block was very nice. Who knew this guy could be a weak-side help defender? I wouldn't have called that one before the season began.

Rafer is still consistent, notching six assists on zero turnovers. Can't ask much more from a point guard... well, he could've played a little more defence against Starbury, but in a win like this we can afford to have him saving a little energy.

Jerome Moiso has worked his way back into the doghouse. This kid has a 50-50 chance of being on the waiver wire by the trade deadline. Hopefully English is working with him at every practice, trying to squeeze every ounce of potential he has out of him. Some have claimed that Mitchell's post-game comments yesterday were directed at Moiso... his DNP-CD tonight might attest to that.

Araujo looked as raw as ever. We should hang an "under construction" sign under his number. Or maybe have one of those student driver bumper stickers on his behind. In time we could have one of the toughest, biggest, most intimidating centres in the league--we just need to give him that time and stop doubting him. One thing he did well tonight was getting in position for offensive rebounds. Had we not been shooting at such a high clip, he might've had three or four put-backs. Good work in that department, Hoffa.

Feels good to get a win against Lenny and Isiah. I always feel a little bit sad watching Jerome play against us, though. You can see it on his face that he feels the same way. Hopefully Donyell will return Saturday and demonstrate why we won the trade.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arcade_rida</b>!
> 
> 
> What are you talking about. When I said all the VC haters are sleeping, I meant nobody can complement the guy when he has a solid game, but when he doesn't play well we have about 14-20 posters just going at him. No actually I wasn't hating on Vince Carter. I was swormed with posters when I said Vince never had a great offensive night but played great defense and was cheering on his fellow teammates and if you see I have been on I just dont feel like posting sometimes.


I never said you were hating on Vince... but in this thread, most people have been complimenting Vince, if not all. And that includes the people arguing with you after the Spurs game. And my post wasn't directed at you personally for the most part... this is for all the guys who go blindly calling anyone who's criticized VC this year (and thank god there's only a few of you) - all most of us Raptors fans ask of Vince is to show some god damn effort! He showed that effort today, and we're giving him props for it. On top of that, we won. That of course has a big thing to do with it. We don't hate Vince, hell we're not even that demanding of him. All we want is some freakin effort. Unfortunately, he hasn't shown this most nights so the reaction for most of the season has been negative. But for today's game, it was positive. Why? Because he played with some effort.


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## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> Really?


Now lets compare that to the long posts in which they hate on Vince.. saying to trade him.. I seriously still dont want Vince Carter to be traded because I believe we can successed with him.


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## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Budweiser_Boy</b>!
> 
> 
> I never said you were hating on Vince... but in this thread, most people have been complimenting Vince, if not all. And that includes the people arguing with you after the Spurs game. And my post wasn't directed at you personally for the most part... this is for all the guys who go blindly calling anyone who's criticized VC this year (and thank god there's only a few of you) - all most of us Raptors fans ask of Vince is to show some god damn effort! He showed that effort today, and we're giving him props for it. On top of that, we won. That of course has a big thing to do with it. We don't hate Vince, hell we're not even that demanding of him. All we want is some freakin effort. Unfortunately, he hasn't shown this most nights so the reaction for most of the season has been negative. But for today's game, it was positive. Why? Because he played with some effort.


And I agree Vince does need to show effort.. If he puts out 100% effort I think well I know he can be the a top 5 player in this league and everyone knows that.


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## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> I always feel a little bit sad watching Jerome play against us, though. You can see it on his face that he feels the same way. Hopefully Donyell will return Saturday and demonstrate why we won the trade.


You know I was looking and watching him play. He really loved to play in Toronto and I always feel sad to see him play as well. He has also developed his shot, it really looks good.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arcade_rida</b>!
> 
> 
> Now lets compare that to the long posts in which they hate on Vince.. saying to trade him.. I seriously still dont want Vince Carter to be traded because I believe we can successed with him.


It really doesn't matter what you want, he's as good as gone. Get over him, please.

I don't mean to be rude, but give it up.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

i personally don't give a crap anymore about vince.

say something critical, you're a hater. say you still have faith, you're a lover. nothing gets resolved. nothing gets accounted for. nothing gets into context. there's some aspects of his game tonight that can be critical of, but i'm going to take the high road and just lay off vince from now on and his performance in games.

tonight everyone played well. from palacio to bosh. it's just one of those nights where's everyone's on fire, which kinda overshadows the negatives factors that still lingers. 

tonite, the knicks frontcourt wasn't agressive enugh. KT and Nazr Mohammed haven't done their homework in that if you constantly crowd the board, there's a good chance you can get the offensive reobound against this weak raptors team. looks like lenny didn't prepare his team. :sour:

bosh only had 8 touches. EIGHT. for a person who's shooting above .500 he needs to get noticed early and often, for not only the good of the team's execution sets but also for the betterment of his development. he absolutely kept blowing past the knicks frontcourt and yet the players didn't really key in on, which is okay since shots kept falling but they have to remember nights like these are a flash in the pan.

today's game also was reflective on how lemon should remain a bench player all the time. his anxiety as a starter in the WAS game never gave lemon the chance to get into groove that's needed for him to be effective. if either vince or rose go down, i hope peterson gets the starting nod.

bonner...can anybody say sixth man? is he still top 5 in the L in terms of field goal percentage? what's so great about his game is that not only is he confident in his shot, but he's not afraid to go to the rim. if you aren't on the bandwagon yet, it's time to get on it now.

it's great to see the bench back into form that help us get those wins in the past, that is coming into the game as a cohesive unit rather than tinkering with one of them separately from time to time. the bench guys are so fluid with each other, something that's missing from our starters. 

araujo needs more time but he didn't look that bad to give him 10 mins here or there. certainly alot more helpful than moiso 

marbury, as usual, was just fantastic. even though he didn't have a great game statistically, you can tell he can have one every night if he wants to. but today he really is committed to the goal of making his teammates more involved, a la, mohammed's increased stats. 

i'm still not sold on hmi and crawford together though. crawford is one of those playeres that needs the ball in his hands for a duration of time in order to get into the game, but they already have that in marbury. interesting to see how wilkens co-exist crawford and houston once houston's injuries are healed.

in the end, i'm not goin to take too much into this game (or anything of the same type) because this is just a game where everything seems to be falling. i'd love for them to continue like this but let's face reality. good win in the sense that last night was such a frustrating game, but i'll be even more attention to how the team plays against the knicks at at the garden.


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## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> It really doesn't matter what you want, he's as good as gone. Get over him, please.
> ...


Give it up? if he gets traded I aint gonna cry. I am not in love with him.. if he did get traded I would wish him the best.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> It really doesn't matter what you want, he's as good as gone. Get over him, please.
> ...


but once he's gone, what else are we going to talk about in these game threads?


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> marbury, as usual, was just fantastic. even though he didn't have a great game statistically, you can tell he can have one every night if he wants to. but today he really is committed to the goal of making his teammates more involved, a la, mohammed's increased stats.


Most of Mohammad's points were off put backs (7 o-boards) although I can see what you were saying.

Man I really don't like that NY team. Too many coasters (hmmmm reminds me of Lenny's time with the Raptors... coincidence?)


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## Mike1155 (Apr 9, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>speedythief</b>!
> Jerome Moiso has worked his way back into the doghouse. This kid has a 50-50 chance of being on the waiver wire by the trade deadline. Hopefully English is working with him at every practice, trying to squeeze every ounce of potential he has out of him. Some have claimed that Mitchell's post-game comments yesterday were directed at Moiso... his DNP-CD tonight might attest to that.


It didn't take him that long. Mitchell sent him a big message tonight. When the coach plays everyone & their mother except you in a 20 pt blowout your in BIG TROUBLE. What is Moiso getting paid? I remember hearing Eric Smith saying Moiso is getting 2 million this year.......yikes.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Gotta say it though, that Vince dunk was nasty, pure Vinsanity


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

Lamond Murray's really playing hard out there. Just saw his block on Penny, he wouldn't even jump last year!

Never in my life would I think Milt Palacio would have a game like this...


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by *Numbed one !*
> Man I really don't like that NY team. Too many coasters (hmmmm reminds me of Lenny's time with the Raptors... coincidence?)


Seeing Lenny tonight was so sweet considering he was coaching are opponents team, same old Lenny Defense, gota love it


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## Q8i (Oct 23, 2004)

Props To My Dawg Milt.. He Was Killin' It
Watch Out For Skip On Saturday, His Goin Back Home & U Know What The Don Is Gon Do *


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

Good to see the Raps on the "other" side of a blow out for once. Also good to see Lenny on the "other" sides bench. 

Nice win but still way too many jump shots. Opposing defenses won't always be so invisible.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

great win by the raps!!!! good to see the bench bounce straight bak from a dissapointin effort against the wiz! still cant believe how well woods is doin this guy deserves real props from turnin into sumthin from a scrub! well done woods! 


didnt get to see the VC dunks


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

WOW. Where did that come from?

Gotta love that Lenny Wilkens 'd'.

Raps were on fire tonight. VC got the team rolling with hot outside shooting and it became contagious. Bonner, Lamond, MoP, and MILT. 

When Milt starts knocking down 20 foot J's you know its our night.

Guys were going after the boards much harder. Bosh, Bonner, Lamond, MoP. But the Knicks weren't crashing with 3 guys like the Wiz did on us.

Only negative in this game was our D. Nazr dominated inside, just like last year, and Marbury had an extremely efficient night (25pts on 16shots plus 8 assists) as well. The other Knicks were just cold.

Saturday should be a real battle. Knicks have 3 days to sit and stew about this beating. Kind of glad we didn't blow it open by 30.

Good to see JYD out there. Still hustles like crazy and so strong on the glass. He has this year plus 2 more on his deal (plus a fourth year team option) but at 6 mill he is too expensive for a backup forward for us. Watching him and Bonner match up at times made me see how much of JYD's energy Bonner brings off the bench, plus so much more scoring.

Hoffa continued to play well defensively and his rebounding was good at both ends. He is just so tight on offense. Doesn't know how to let the game come to him yet. Trying way too hard to make something happen. I love the way he follows our penetrating guards to the rack. Didn't like the way JYD outfought him for that one board, but that's JYD. I forgot just how good he can be on the boards.

As for why no long posts praising VC? What can you say other than his outside shot was falling? That was enough tonight. Can't complain about the lack of FT's, assists, or boards tonight because the team didn't need him to do more. He could have not taken a shot after the first quarter and it would still have been a good game for him because he got the team going in the first and the other guys took over after that.


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

Is it really necessary to praise Vince for things that he is supposed to be doing? It's not like he went above and beyond what the team expects from and PAYS him to do. Up until 1 and a half games ago, he failed to provide the services expected of him and that is why he received justifiable criticism.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>djmyte</b>!
> Is it really necessary to praise Vince for things that he is supposed to be doing? It's not like he went above and beyond what the team expects from and PAYS him to do. Up until 1 and a half games ago, he failed to provide the services expected of him and that is why he received justifiable criticism.


ssshhh. you'll spoil the surprise


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Maybe if people werent looking at Vince's games with such a microscope those expectations wouldnt arise


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Vince has been lighting it up in the first quarter lately. I knew his shooting would come around.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> Vince has been lighting it up in the first quarter lately. I knew his shooting would come around.


Yes the main thing is though, we haven't seen him play at that consistant level throughout a game. He heats up but then he can't keep it together, for example one game he'd get 16 points in the first quarter, and only get another 5 the rest of the way. For yesterday's game though, I understand because the Raptors were winning big and all, but I just wanted to point that out.
Something to take a look at next time.


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

> Maybe if people werent looking at Vince's games with such a microscope those expectations wouldnt arise


You're arguments keep getting more bizarre by the day. 

Every franchise player has expectations placed upon them. It comes with the territory and more specifically, the $$.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

^In that case shouldnt our highest paid player be discussed as much


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes the main thing is though, we haven't seen him play at that consistant level throughout a game. He heats up but then he can't keep it together, for example one game he'd get 16 points in the first quarter, and only get another 5 the rest of the way. For yesterday's game though, I understand because the Raptors were winning big and all, but I just wanted to point that out.
> Something to take a look at next time.


I look at it every time believe me. For Vince to play a complete game is a rare thing these days, maybe it never was that regular. To some extent though, that's Vince's game, he's a pure scorer, usually doing so in spurts. What we need from him is to take over the first and fourth quarters and he's very much capable of that, and much moreso, if he was in his "happy" place. 

It does look like Vince's shooting is back on target. Obviously he needed to get back in practice and shape after a wedding summer. He's gaining confidence in those legs too but like it or not, shooting is the best part of Vince game. All the off-balance jumpers he gets in the lane, those are his bread and butter. There are only a couple of players with his shotmaking talents in my mind, Tmac and Kobe. Those shots hadn't been dropping and Vince was getting VERY frustrated. 

We could still see Vince struggle mightily with this team but I think they are learning to play together. I wish Vince and Bosh were used more often in conjunction (pick and roll, screens, double team options) but perhaps we'll see more of that in games to come. Vince has been money coming off screens for the mid-range jumper- Rafer will keep looking for him.

Is Vince having fun with this team? Mitchell could have them heading in the right direction, it's hard to say. I'm just glad that Vince is making shots.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

It's kind of sad to think, VC put a lot of trust in the Raptors Head Office last season, thinking that they had the right coach, and all that, but things didn't go well again last year, and Vince thinks the same will happen this year. If Vince can just realize what we have going on this season, and get on board, we will win our division hands down.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> It's kind of sad to think, VC put a lot of trust in the Raptors Head Office last season, thinking that they had the right coach, and all that, but things didn't go well again last year, and Vince thinks the same will happen this year. If Vince can just realize what we have going on this season, and get on board, we will win our division hands down.


That's a big thing. If we can go on a streak vs these eastern teams and bring the division title into sight, Vince could get that glimmer in his eye again. I don't know about hands down though, the Atlantic will be as tight as it gets.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

> If Vince can just realize what we have going on this season, and get on board, we will win our division hands down.


How do you know Vince hasnt put trust in Mitchell, has he complained ever since the season has started through the booing and bad games


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> ^In that case shouldnt our highest paid player be discussed as much


No. Everyone already knows Jalen's price tag isnt reflective of his abilities. Vince on the other hand is a max contract player that isn't playing like a max contract player. With Vince, it's choice, not an impossibility as is the case with Jalen.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Something I found quite unusual and forgot to point out was Jamal Crawford had less than 10 points. Didnt he go for 50 against us last time we met, what happened or who shut him down


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

If you catch the game on replay you will see that he missed wide open looks. Just a very bad game from him.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

nt


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

*Re: Re: Knicks @ Raptors, Nov. 24*

nt


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