# The Second Pick!



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

Okay, this team needs A LOT more than just a high draft pick, but it's a start.

It seems as their choice will be made up, according to what Houston does...I believe Houston will pick up Yao Ming, leaving Jayson Williams for Chicago...

Do they take him? Or does the Bulls have someone else in mind?

The Chicago brain trust has some dents in it, that's for sure. Trading Brand away for an unproven high school star...I still can't believe it. :no:

I believe they should have KEPT Elton Brand, along with Ron Artest, and build around these guys...starting over all the time will keep you in the dumps. :|


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

I really hope they package the pick and get Jalen some proven veteran scoring help!

The Bulls are good defensively, they need help in the points department.

One never knows what KrautHead will do, though!  

I wish Mike had bought into the Bulls instead of the Wizards!


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Ron said:


> *Okay, this team needs A LOT more than just a high draft pick, but it's a start.
> 
> It seems as their choice will be made up, according to what Houston does...I believe Houston will pick up Yao Ming, leaving Jayson Williams for Chicago...
> 
> ...



Hey ron. I see by your post that you are not a bulls fan. I know what mosty people think abut the trade where Brand went to LAC and we got chandler in the deal. You cant judge the trade now. Many factors were involved in the decision. 

1. Brand asked to be traded. He knew JK was going after curry. Knowing that, Brand decided that Curry was not going to be ready and decided that he wanted to move on. Being from a terrible team the year before, no one was untradable. Theres also a lot more to this than JK trading Brand. When both artest and brand was on the same team, Brands low post game hindered Artests game. He was quoted as saying so once Brand left. By the way he came back from the injury this year and played proved somewhat that Artest had a point to prove. 

2. That being said, falk is Brands agent and wanted Brand to play for MJ at washington. Why do i say that? Well remember before the draft there was real talk of Brand going to Washington for K Brown (or #1) and or hamilton. So on draft night, Falk and mj knew JK wanted Brown. So to sweeten the deal and stick it to JK they not only asked for Brand but Crawford as well. MJ loved his play in the summer work outs in chicago and so since MJ and falk knew JK wanted brown, they thought they had JK over a barrel. "You want Brown? You give us our price" Well guess what? Jk went to LAC and moved Brand for chandler. Falk was irate to say the least! Not that he traded brand but that he traded Elton to the wrong team!! Remember all the bad things david said after the trade? I bet if Elton was traded to washington, nothing would be said. And MJ was stuck with a player he didnt want and need since he was trying to make the playoffs with what he had. All of that being said, Brand couldnt carry this team. And Brand to a much better Clippers team couldnt make the playoffs! 

Artest? He is a good player and proved that by defense and a very suprising offensive game when he came back from the injured list. But Ron makes bad decisions. Due to his youth. Holds the ball too long. Takes ill advised shots. That beig said, when the rose trade came up and we had miller and a package to trade, we had to send something of value. Rons defebse was value. So is millers center spot, which by the way Jk gets no credit of by many people, Brad miller is a solid and cheap center. 

We will be ok. We are young. We have a real leader in Rose, From the very first game and no practice with the team, we beat NY. Chandler and Curry played much better with Rose and Best on the team. And oh, yeah Hassell a secnd round pick by the bulls is not too shabby either. 

What do we do? Easy! Draft jay will and wait and see what happens fro trade offers! In the worse case we keep the college player of the year to play guard and open it up even more for chandler and curry. We were 9-21 with Rose and best on this team after the trade. With Rose from trading camp day 1 that in itself should add 5 wins to this team with no draft pick at all being added. Thats roughly 32 wins. (9-21 clip is roughly a 27 win team with no improvement)

Im sorry this was so long and most of my posts are not so winded. But when someone makes a statement like the bulls should not of traded Brand and artest it diserves a real answer!

One last point. Curry is a post player as well. Many people believe that brand and curry couldnt have existed on the same team. Some say Curry is a brand only taller. 

Artest, Is a very good defensive player. But makes a lot of bad dec


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

ok sicky i will bite! Who is it? By the way good to see you over here. We miss you at realgm


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

Thanks for the clarification, truebluefan.

I do recall the discussion where Artest's game was hindered by Brand's low post game. Thanks for reminding me.

I understand the need to keep tweaking to get it right. It's too bad that Krause couldn't get Brand and Artest to work together; I feel they would have made a great nucleus to build a team around.

In any event, that's past history. Who do they pick at 2nd?


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

More Bulls fans! Great!

Jay Williams - why does that stat line NOT surprise me? I am very picky about seeing college players before I make a choice as to whether they can make it in the NBA. 

I only hope that Chicago gets Jalen some shooting help, as I said, they had good defense, a GREAT coach, who knows this game, and all they need is a pure shooter. Curry and Chandler will come along, as they certainly did under Cartwright, and they'll continue to improve and then - watch out!

As for the draft, just get a pure shooter (they can and will learn the NBA defense) is all I ask for when it comes to the Bulls.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

i thought thats who you would say. I agree jay had a bad tourney. Sometimes in the nba people have bad playoff series. Does that mean you trade them all the time? Tyron Hill not included. 

I know. I know. But i saw jay come up big in a lot of games before that. I think last year it was amazing, the maryland game where they were ahead by like 20 points. By shear will, Jay kept them in the game. He refused to let them get beat. They won in overtime. Thats just one game. 

I know in the indiana game he came up with huge shots to keep Duke close, but his FT cost them the game. 

I


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

ty ron. You had a difference of opinion and responded maturely. Thats refreshing! 

Who do we take at #2? Thats easy! If Houston takes ming, we draft jay williams. We already are getting offers for both players! We could trade either one of them or in the worse case keep williams.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

hey the rifleman. good to meet you

Scoring is not the problem with this team. Scoring was up when rose and best joined. Defense was the problem, That will come in time IMO, with experience and playing together. But i think we will get some scoring from this draft as well. Even with our second round pick. Some pretty good players might slip to the second round.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

Sicky Dimpkins said:


> *A "puke" smiley would be nice. *


I actually have one, but I hestitate to put it up...it's rather disgusting! :laugh:


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

ok sicky. Fair enough. they were bad games. But everyone has bad games. Even MJ. Didnt he score below 10 points twice this year? I agree. Those were bad games. But what about the good ones?

http://goduke.fansonly.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/duke-m-baskbl-spec-rel.html

Read the archives and box scores. He has many, many good games as well.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Yes but what about Jamal Crawford, do you just give up on him?


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Jemel Irief said:


> *Yes but what about Jamal Crawford, do you just give up on him? *


Good question! No we dont

Crawford is and can be a combination guard. Doesnt New Orleans do the same? Isnt davis and wesley both pgs in reality?

In the triangle, a true pg is not needed. Rose is our point forward similar to pippen. Note i did not say he was pippen but similar in the fact that the ball will go through him. So, i think Crawford could be and is a SG as well. This will not hurt us as Crawford stated himself.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

sicky i cant argue with your points when you put it that way. 

As for what the bulls might do, it could be anything or nothing as far as jay is concerned. We have many options, imo.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

If we trade Jay Williams I think we need to get a good veteran in return.


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## Songcycle (May 29, 2002)

Sickey, those are some very interesting stats on Jay Williams. You've got me thinking.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Wow, Sickly!

I have been a big Jwill proponent, but those NC2A stats are downright scary.

I could quickly fall into the auction off the pick crowd.

Just no Odom, please!


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## Devestata (May 29, 2002)

Getting Odom Dumb? :upset: lol just playing Sicky.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

I know of another guard that is playing in the playoffs. The last 9 games is 65-167 .384% 6-45 in threes. About .134 or .135% 8.3rebounds. Almost two steals a game. And averaging over 3.5 t/o.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Jason Kidd........???


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

KiDcRaWfOrD said:


> *Jason Kidd........???  *


Nope. guess again.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

WoW, I thought for sure that it was Kidd.

I really have no clue who it is now.....


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

I'll tell you tomorrow. Give the others a chance to try and guess.


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## Songcycle (May 29, 2002)

Kenny Anderson? But I don't think he will be playing much longer.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

your right sicky. In my mind i cant think of walker as a pf. Williams plays sf a lot too but it is pierce. So i guess i mislead all on that one. Sorry. He didnt shoot all that well tonight either. But better than he did the last 9 games.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Dang, nice rebound numbers for Pierce!!


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## Sep (Jun 5, 2002)

Sicky, you've sold me on this one. I'd been saying that Jay Will was the best player we could acquire, and worth shuffling our roster for. I'm not so sure anymore. I'm now on the Caron Butler bandwagon. He looks like Ron Artest with better ballhandling and shooting. I would pull the trigger in a second on a trade with GS. Fizer and #2 for Fortson, Arenas, and #3.


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## Wishbone (Jun 10, 2002)

yeesh! i finally got through reading all this... after staring at your computer screen long enough, you begin to wonder what all that radiation is doing to your eyes, your skin, your brain, etc...


anyway, after reading this, i've become sure of one thing.
there is not a single person available in this draft who will absoultely (99% certainty) make a positive impact on the Bulls team.

for every yarn, scouting report, back-yard prophecy and prediction read off the back of a box of cereal preaching the greatness of (insert name here), there's at least a dozen retorts to the contrary.

it's at the point where I can't figure who really does have a shot at being a star in the NBA... with the draft drawing so near, we're all whipped up in a frenzy. because, let's face it, it's the only exciting thing that's going to happen until tip off.

so, maybe i'll just be grateful when it comes, so that the following weeks can then be spent fantasizing (or griping) about our shiney new toy, and how the future is forged (or mired) because of it.

anyone else abandoning hope of actually being able to determine the NBA skills of all these kids???


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## settinUpShop (Jun 8, 2002)

Sicky I think you're slowly converting all of us. After reading your arguement I have withdrawn my vote for Jay Williams and am now rethinking my position for the 1000th time.

I must also commend you on backing up your aguements with stats. It makes a world of difference.

People don't seem to have much patience for Jamal Crawford. I say we give him until all-star break next season before we take the Point away from him, or trade him.

As an inexperienced point, he could use some veteran wisdom on the bench behind him. Arena's seems to be a bit of a gamble since he only played point this year. Having two PG with little experience makes me a bit nervous - no matter how high their potential.

Another retort to those who dismiss JC because of his poor assist totals, and ft. What can you work on the most after coming back from a serious leg injury? Your shot, weight training - and maybe some conditioning. JC got choosen at #8 bcs of his shooting ability displayed at the Chicago pre-draft games. Since then it has gotten even better. He has improved his form and range.

I hope Jerry Krause doesn't make the mistake of giving up on this determined and talented player. I say leverage Williams for all that he's worth.


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## pduh02 (May 28, 2002)

I want to point two things out.........

First thing first with my guess is that I can make a list of players until I get it right :laugh: But don't feel like doing all the typing :laugh: So I take a guess..........Mike Bibby???

Next thing even though I saw the stats of Jay Williams that Sicky post and I saw some people are rethinking now.......Me I haven't change my mind a bit I'm still high on drafting Jay Williams unless we trade for a veteran all star young stud that I don't mind which I planning to make a new thread what list of trades I don't mind trading Jay Williams durning draft day later on. But anyways I'm still high on Jay Williams stats well yeah it mean something but to me stats is like a piece of paper........Stats is always good to see how the player perform but I also always look at the players they play up in court the way they perform, the way they practice, and most importantly how they develop their skills and their work etics are the two most importantly.

I don't mean that stats is nothing important........It is but depend how you see the view of it.......Its hard to explain since I"m not a very good explainer and not a very bright person :laugh: Oops did I say that? :laugh:

I also going to post another thread on this board, realgm, and bullsnews what are my reasons drafting Jay Williams and etc, etc, etc. Later on.


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

In this draft, there is no sure bet on who to take. The last draft to have a sure #1 was the '97 Draft with Tim Duncan. We don't need a franchise player or this big star. The player that would suit us best is one that has the winning instinct. That in my eyes is Jay Williams. He comes from a winning program at Duke(I'm not a Duke fan) and he always wants to win. 

Yeah, his shooting is shakey but we are not asking him to be this big scorer. We have scorers in Jalen Rose, Jamal Crawford, Marcus Fizer, and Trenton Hassel. We need him to control the ball and take care of it, to bring down our turnovers. His shot will eventually come by working on it. Remember, Jordan had a shakey jumper when he entered the league. Most of his points came on drives to the basket. When he left the league in '98, he had one of the best jumpers and the most unstoppable fadeaway(which Kobe is trying to take). What made Michael so good was his winning instinct, his wanting to win everygame. Same goes for Magic and Bird, they worked on things to get better but they always wanted to win. That's the type of player you want and they are hard to find now.

I believe Brand wanted to win, but not bad enough. If so, he would have lashed out more against his teammates during games. Jalen though has shown he wants to win, you could see it in '98 against the Bulls in the Conf. Finals. You could see in the '00 Finals and you could see it this year. He has been vocal on how he wants the players to do this, he wants management to do that, he has the winning instinct. 

See, it's not all about the talent or skills but it's about the heart and confidence. You can work on talent and your skill, but you can't put the heart into someone. The coach can give the players the confidence, which Bill Cartwright did. I coached 10-12 yr olds and they had no skill, but most had heart and confidence in themselves and they won games against more talented teams. See, the Bulls finally have the right players who have heart and the talent that just needs polishing. Jay Williams would add to the heart and the winning attitude they will take into the season. I don't know if any other player has the winning attitude he has or the heart. If he comes in and starts directing players and pushing them during games(as he stated he's not afraid to), that shows he is a leader with confidence. In today's game, that is worth more than 30 pts. a game.


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## settinUpShop (Jun 8, 2002)

Sicky: What did you just say? The Kings ran the triangle last year right!! I knew it, I've been trying to figure out where I read that. I believe it was in an issue of SI from earlier this year. Do you remember or have a source.

I believe the point you make about Bibby is all the most relavent if we can prove that the King's were running the triangle. But common opinion among posters I've read, is that they do some-kind of Princton offense with back-cuts (??).

The Kings may be a very good model for our future. One reason why Jordan was so dominant late in his career was his amazing ability to post as a 2 guard. We already have a great post talent at C, so we dont necessarily need a 6'6" guy who posts up the smaller 2's. One thing which happened a lot at the end of last season, was Jamal getting posted up, or simply taken to the hole. BC mentioned the importance of his point guard, playing within his system, to be able to quarterback the defense. If this is the case then maybe Jamal isn't such a good match for us after-all. If he can't stop his own man, how can he quarterback his defense. Again, Jamal's performance at the end of last season came after a very serious knee surgery, so I realize that his legs might still have been recovering. Something to think about though.
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Least wort recommendation: Baron Davis if we can get him, or Wally. (and of course take Yao Ming if Houston drafts JWill, that goes without saying.)


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