# Game Thread: Chicago Bulls @ Detroit Pistons



## DetBNyce

vs.








*Detroit Pistons (23-16) vs. Chicago Bulls (18-19)*

Time: 7:30
Date: 1/22/05
Venue: The Palace Of Auburn Hills

*Starting Lineups:*











































































We need to get back on the winning track. Chicago won 89-82 in their last meeting at the Palace, so it's more than possible that they can beat us again. Each team has a victory over the other, both by 7 point margins.


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## Ruff Draft

I'm willing to give this one to the Bulls, I think they'll come with alot of energy.

*Bulls: 97*
Pistons: 88


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## jvanbusk

This is a big game for the Pistons. Following up the 6 game winning streak with back to back losses was very disheartening. But to follow it up with a 3 game losing streak, would be much more disappointing.


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## ian

I think the Pistons will be out to show up the Bulls as "not yets," and will win by at least 15.


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## Brian.

As I posted in the bulls forum I expect this to be an intersting game. I am sure the palace will be empty because of the snow storm plus we played last night. This is a game we still should win though.

Pistons 90
Bulls 85


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## JoeD

Damn snow. Ruined a good deal of my saturday. I remember last time we had a snow storm the pistons were around 10 wins in their 14 game streak, I think.


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## LuolDeng

> Originally posted by <b>XMATTHEWX</b>!
> I'm willing to give this one to the Bulls, I think they'll come with alot of energy.
> 
> *Bulls: 97*
> Pistons: 88


In the Bulls forum you said if Arroyo plays the Pistons win by a lot...

I guess Carlos makes the difference between a 9 point L and a BIG win.


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## DetBNyce

Carlos Arroyo is playing tonight...


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## DetBNyce

Off to a pretty good start, up 8-3.


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## DetBNyce

Hinrich has two fouls already as Rip is giving him fits. Rip can just shoot over him everytime. 8 points in the first three and a half minutes for Rip.


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## jvanbusk

> Originally posted by <b>DetBNyce</b>!
> Hinrich has two fouls already as Rip is giving him fits. Rip can just shoot over him everytime. 8 points in the first three and a half minutes for Rip.


The Pistons should attack Hinrich every time down the court.


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## MLKG

All of Chicago's guards are short, there's nothing they can do about Rip.


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## DetBNyce

I was just about to post what Mike said. They now have a backcourt of Duhon and Gordon on the floor. Rip should have a field day tonight.


Zone defense is our kryptonite.


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## irishfury

Rips looks like he is out to a good start


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## DetBNyce

> Originally posted by <b>irishfury</b>!
> Rips looks like he is out to a good start


Definitely, but he is the one of the only ones playing well.


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## jvanbusk

YES SIR.

That's a 16 point first quarter....


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## DetBNyce

With the addition of Arroyo (assuming he actually plays), the guards don't have to pace themselves as much allowing us to bring back the press defense that was so effective last season.

Rip with 16 points now.


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## DetBNyce

I like this new guy already. Great dish to Dice.


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## DetBNyce

Tayshaun doing what he does best, blocking layups on breaks. He has to get about 40 of those a year.

I don't understand subbing Rip out when he has the hot hand.


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## jvanbusk

That was a sweet feed from Arroyo to Mcdiggitydiggitydyess.

Looks like a tie game at the break after the buzzer beater by Duhon.


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## MLKG

We've blown a couple easy fast breaks.

Rip back in.


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## jvanbusk

Bulls fans think the Pistons are whining alot....

To me it seems like I'd be complaining if I were a Piston as well. The Bulls are getting every call it seems like.


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## DetBNyce

Our rebounding woes continue to show as Chicago had 3 or 4 tries on that possession.

30-28 Bulls at the commercial break.


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## MLKG

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> Bulls fans think the Pistons are whining alot....


Those clowns were complaining about the refs before the game even started (i'm not joking).


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## DetBNyce

That hold by Nocioni isn't saying otherwise.


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## DetBNyce

Billups with 3 fouls...


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## jvanbusk

Rip should be able to beat Nocioni off the dribble everytime (unless he's held).


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## MLKG

Musical chairs at the point guard spot right now.

Arroyo was in for 1 possession, Lindsey came in for 1 possession, not Goldwire is in.


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## jvanbusk

Rip with 24 points right now. Solid start.


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## MLKG

Matt Sheppard with some solid reporting.


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## DetBNyce

That refs continue to be blind.


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## DetBNyce

Some penetration from one of the 4 point guards to play would be nice for the second half.


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## P33r~

Seriously what the **** are the bulls fans complaining about in their game thread? Honestly about 1 in every 3 posts are complaining about the calls. I normally think highly of a lot of bulls fans there but in all honesty we haven't gotten a lot of calls.


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## DetBNyce

I remember when Duhon could shoot... back in his first couple of years at Duke. What the hell happened to his jumpshot?


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## LuolDeng

Do you not notice that on every play when a Bulls player has inside position they are shoved under the hoop where they can't get the rebound.

And it hasn't been called once.


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## MLKG

Don't bring that crap here. You guys are being ridiculous.


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## DetBNyce

Where has Ben Wallace been the last 3 games. You can barely notice his presence on the floor.


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## MLKG

Dyess is keeping us in it right now.

Once Arroyo gets used to everyone he really looks like he's going to help us out a lot.


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## DetBNyce

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> Dyess is keeping us in it right now.
> 
> Once Arroyo gets used to everyone he really looks like he's going to help us out a lot.


You spoke Arroyo up, he just hit the jumper. 72-70 Bulls.

Arroyo does look like he'll help a lot.

We should be going to Rip on every possession.


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## jvanbusk

While I like guys like Mikedc and TommyB....

Bulls posters are terrible. Just check out that game thread. 

I really hope we win tonight.


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## MLKG

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> While I like guys like Mikedc and TommyB....
> 
> Bulls posters are terrible. Just check out that game thread.
> 
> I really hope we win tonight.


It's like the Bulls team has dropped the losing mentality but the fans still have it. Making excuses for everything.


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## DetBNyce

I only see a couple of them complaining, mainly 3 or 4 of them. Those 3 or 4 are complaining in every posts though.


EDIT: Take that back... lots of ***** going on.

Then again someone had the nerve to say they were better than the Pistons 1-12...


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## MLKG

The Bulls are making us pay for EVERY turnover and offensive rebound.

That's been the difference in the game. We have more boards and they've turned it over a lot as well. The difference is they are capitalizing on those opportunities and we're not.


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## P33r~

What happened to our team finishing strong? Here's to blowing another lead down the stretch. :cheers:


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## DetBNyce

Gut check time. We'll see in these last 7 mimutes if they want to be the losers of 7 straight.


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## DetBNyce

Nocioni is a wild man. it's amzing he doens't get into more scuffles.


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## MLKG

This is pathetic.


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## DetBNyce

Two more techs. One on Billups and one on Hamilton. The refs must not be happy with the amount we're supposedly paying them.


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## P33r~

Guys i wasn't watching, how the hell did we suddenly get all those T's? That is really frustrating.


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## MLKG

Things have been chippy all game, a little late to start cleaning it up I think.

Pistons need to just play basketball.


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## jvanbusk

These T's are really hurting. You got to get your head in the game and play through poor officiating.


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## DetBNyce

> Originally posted by <b>P33r~</b>!
> Guys i wasn't watching, how the hell did we suddenly get all those T's? That is really frustrating.


Basically from the Pistons complaining about 3 calls that went against them. We got 3 techs on 2 consecutive possessions.


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## DetBNyce

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> These T's are really hurting. You got to get your head in the game and play through poor officiating.


Basically. Rip is the biggest offender. He is letting Hinrich frustrate him and he's taking it out the wrong way. He's hurting the team.


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## MLKG

Our defense looks terrible. We are just reacting to everything they do and we're not taking ANYTHING away from them.

I hate this team so much some time. They used to be hungry and play with an edge, now they expect everything to be given to them.


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## jvanbusk

Put in Darko.

This team isn't worth **** right now.

Rip Hamilton: Talk about being non-existant in the second half. Maybe he needs to take a couple games off to rest his thigh. 

I'm so sick of this team playing like dog **** in the 4th quarter.


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## jvanbusk

Forget about championship poise.

This team doesn't have it right now.


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## DetBNyce

I have never been this frustrated with any Pistons team ever. Even when we were losing, it wasn't this frustrating.


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## jvanbusk

Chicago is a pretty damn good team.

Bulls posters might be the most disrespectful group on bbb.net. They deserve zero respect for their huge base and large post count. They are terrible. TERRIBLE.


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## DetBNyce

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> Chicago is a pretty damn good team.


Yea, I pretty much just put something like that on the Bulls board. They are a very good team. Things are finally starting to look good for them.






> Bulls posters might be the most disrespectful group on bbb.net. They deserve zero respect for their huge base and large post count. They are terrible. TERRIBLE.


The bad certainly outnumber the good.


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## Vintage

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> Chicago is a pretty damn good team.
> 
> Bulls posters might be the most disrespectful group on bbb.net. They deserve zero respect for their huge base and large post count. They are terrible. TERRIBLE.


I'm sorry.


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## Pay Ton

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> Chicago is a pretty damn good team.
> 
> Bulls posters might be the most disrespectful group on bbb.net. They deserve zero respect for their huge base and large post count. They are terrible. TERRIBLE.


:no: 

It doesn't help that you make generalizations like these when talking about us. I mean, we have our share of bad fans (which everyone does), but I mean at least put things like "Most of" or "some of" before your posts. We have some great posters that don't deserve to be included in this discussion. 

And for the record, we got more calls than you guys did, which I was actually surprised by. I do acknowledge that.


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## MLKG

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> Chicago is a pretty damn good team.
> 
> Bulls posters might be the most disrespectful group on bbb.net. They deserve zero respect for their huge base and large post count. They are terrible. TERRIBLE.


The thing I like about this site is there are very few slappys. Every fan base has them, the guys whose teams can never lose unless it's the refs, think they are championship contenders every time they win, and think they should trade everybody every time they lose.

Don't know if you've ever checked out the Pistons forum on mlive.com but it's pretty terrible as are all it's affiliate sights for other areas.

Most of those types of fans stay away from this place because they have to register and there is good moderation. For some reason the Bulls forum is the exception though. Who knows, but damn they are annoying.

It's unfortunate too, because the Bulls are one of those teams I like to watch, but the fans are so damn annoying it's hard to pull for them.

Portland, the other big board here, is on the complete opposite end of the spectrum, even if you don't like the Blazers you pull for them because their fans are so great.

*Edit: Yes, Pay Ton is right, there are a lot of good posters who are Bulls fans and it's unfortunate their voices often get drowned out by the more obnoxious ones.


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## jvanbusk

> Originally posted by <b>Pay Ton</b>!
> 
> 
> :no:
> 
> It doesn't help that you make generalizations like these when talking about us. I mean, we have our share of bad fans (which everyone does), but I mean at least put things like "Most of" or "some of" before your posts. We have some great posters that don't deserve to be included in this discussion.
> 
> And for the record, we got more calls than you guys did, which I was actually surprised by. I do acknowledge that.


I'm sorry that I didn't make that distinction here. I did earlier when I said I like guys like Mikedc and TommyB.

What I'm getting at is Bulls fans are terrible on average. I went over there to see what they were saying, and I couldn't believe the *****ing and whining after every play. And this came from people that I never would have thought would be like that (futuristxen for one). Then I make one comment regarding what in my opinion was a clean Tayshaun block and I'm told to "take my punk *** out of the Bulls forum". 

If that's the way it's going to be fine. But, just know that these people are a reflection of your entire group. And yes, I understand how hurtful generalizations can be (Malice in the Palace). But from what I saw tonight, it was easily the majority of Bulls fans that were posting, that were just awful.




-------------



By the way, Vintage, you've always been one of my favorite posters here. Take it for what it's worth.....


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## Vintage

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm sorry that I didn't make that distinction here. I did earlier when I said I like guys like Mikedc and TommyB.
> 
> What I'm getting at is Bulls fans are terrible on average. I went over there to see what they were saying, and I couldn't believe the *****ing and whining after every play. And this came from people that I never would have thought would be like that (futuristxen for one). Then I make one comment regarding what in my opinion was a clean Tayshaun block and I'm told to "take my punk *** out of the Bulls forum".
> 
> If that's the way it's going to be fine. But, just know that these people are a reflection of your entire group. And yes, I understand how hurtful generalizations can be (Malice in the Palace). But from what I saw tonight, it was easily the majority of Bulls fans that were posting, that were just awful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, Vintage, you've always been one of my favorite posters here. Take it for what it's worth.....


Hey....I do hold you in high regard.

I watched most of the game. Unfortunetly, I was playing X-Box and watching the game, so some of the questionable calls, I missed.

I won't comment on the officiating bec. I wasn't paying close attention.

And there are certain posters who are over zealous when it comes to the Bulls. BabyBlueSlugga being one(check his latest thread). Its unfortunate that the loudest fans on the board(as of right now) are the ones being disrespectful.

I just hope many of you can look past that and realize that there are some great posters over there who never act childish the way some are acting now.

Again....apologies......

I do not look at Detroit fans as classless or thugs because of the event that took place against Indiana. I hope many of you can in turn see that our forum does have many good posters of which display humility.


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## Pay Ton

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm sorry that I didn't make that distinction here. I did earlier when I said I like guys like Mikedc and TommyB.
> 
> What I'm getting at is Bulls fans are terrible on average. I went over there to see what they were saying, and I couldn't believe the *****ing and whining after every play. And this came from people that I never would have thought would be like that (futuristxen for one). Then I make one comment regarding what in my opinion was a clean Tayshaun block and I'm told to "take my punk *** out of the Bulls forum".
> 
> If that's the way it's going to be fine. But, just know that these people are a reflection of your entire group. And yes, I understand how hurtful generalizations can be (Malice in the Palace). But from what I saw tonight, it was easily the majority of Bulls fans that were posting, that were just awful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, Vintage, you've always been one of my favorite posters here. Take it for what it's worth.....


I understand your frustration. And you can have these feelings about our fanbase, it's fine. I just encourage you to not expect every Bulls fan to be like this, because there are some great respectable fans out there that don't deserve the heat they take. I think the jist of it is that there are a lot of bitter fans out there. They reflect on the glory days when we would get our good share of "phantom calls". So as soon as we start winning again, they want those calls to return.

I can only hope that as our success continues, our fans will be perceived as less "terrible".


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## JRose5

What I don't like are the few Bulls fans that talk the team up like a championship team after we started playing well.
Sure, the team won some games which is a significant improvement from the past 6 years, but that doesn't warrant ridiculously biased posts.

I'm glad to be a Bulls fan (as tough as it's been to admit since MJ left, :laugh: ) but it still makes me feel stupid when I see other Bulls fans posting "Gordon 4 MVP/ROY/6th Man/Defensive Player of The Year/God !!!" 

What can you do, every team's gonna have people like that, as Pay Ton said, and especially on a free messageboard.
Though I admit it does lower your opinion of a team when you have to listen to a few ridiculous jockriders all the time.

Hey at least they're excited about the team I guess.



And Jalen's from Detroit, I can't knock it.



:cheers:


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## jvanbusk

The people that are posting right now I have no problem with....

I do have a problem with someone telling me to "take yo punk *** out of the bulls board and go back to your 2-3 page game thread" for stating a dissenting opinion.

I have a problem with people *****ing and moaning about every single whistle, and at the same time call the Pistons players a bunch of punks for complaining about questionable calls. 

The three people that have come to this thread right now did not post in the Bulls game thread, or maybe you could not 'hear' them due to the other people. The only one's that seemed to be posting were the one's that were complete *******es.

That's the end of my rant. I made a John Saunders mistake there, and I apologize, but I'm not a journalist. I'm calling it like I see it and right now, I don't hold a very high opinion on the fanbase as a whole. 

Congratulations on the win, hopefully we can get you guys back.


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## DetBNyce

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but .500 is still mediocre. They're a better team than that, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.


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## jvanbusk

http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=137095

Gracious in victory.


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## Vintage

> Originally posted by <b>DetBNyce</b>!
> Not to rain on anyone's parade, but .500 is still mediocre. They're a better team than that, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.


But after losing, mediocre is welcomed.

Mediocre is winning. Sadly.

Baby steps.

And we are competing.


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## Vintage

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=137095
> 
> Gracious in victory.


He also was the one who stated that if you, as in the Pistons, replaced Ben Wallace with Eddy Curry, there would be no difference.


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## PacersguyUSA

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> While I like guys like Mikedc and TommyB....
> 
> Bulls posters are terrible. Just check out that game thread.
> 
> I really hope we win tonight.



The irony........it slays me. :laugh:


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## PacersguyUSA

Hey I heard the Pistons imploded tonight. What exactly happened?

I was really pulling for the Pistons tonight too :sigh:


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## DetBNyce

> Originally posted by <b>Vintage</b>!
> 
> 
> But after losing, mediocre is welcomed.
> 
> Mediocre is winning. Sadly.
> 
> Baby steps.
> 
> And we are competing.


All true, I just find it funny that some of the Bulls fans are acting like this was game 7 of the ECF. You guys played a great game though and certainly held it together down the stretch better than we did. Here's to a soon to be renewed rivalry. (Gotta get in the playoffs first).

:cheers: 

You're not one of those Bulls posters though. I have respect for you.


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## Pay Ton

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> The people that are posting right now I have no problem with....
> 
> I do have a problem with someone telling me to "take yo punk *** out of the bulls board and go back to your 2-3 page game thread" for stating a dissenting opinion.


Again, I'm not going to defend these people. Becuase I believe that is absolutely classless if that is what some of them are saying (I didn't look at the game thread so I don't know). I just hope you don't stop browsing our forum because of this. We have some posters that would love to have a quality discussion with people outside of our fanbase, since it's good to get a different perspective on things.


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## Wynn

> Originally posted by <b>XMATTHEWX</b>!
> I'm willing to give this one to the Bulls, I think they'll come with alot of energy.
> 
> *Bulls: 97*
> Pistons: 88


Wow -- that prediction is VERY close. Good game tonight.

Peace!


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## PacersguyUSA

> I do have a problem with someone telling me to "take yo punk *** out of the bulls board and go back to your 2-3 page game thread" for stating a dissenting opinion.



hypocrite


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## jvanbusk

Maybe if we won every single game we played, Pacersguy would never show up on this board again and it would be 100 times better than it is right now. This guy is such a troll, on any other board he would have been reported and banned long ago.

I'm willing to bet, many Pistons fans have viewed this site, saw the crap he's pulled, and decided not to even register. After all, who wants to deal with someone like that? I'm glad basketballboards.net does offer the ignore function, but to say he's disrupting would be an understatement.


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## Wynn

_ISP double post_


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## Wynn

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> 
> Bulls posters might be the most disrespectful group on bbb.net. They deserve zero respect for their huge base and large post count. They are terrible. TERRIBLE.


Not sure what we did to merit this label. Seems like most of us are staying in our own forum and posting our honest opinions on our own game thread. Seems like one poster had a couple of posts to the effect of "go back to your own board", but that was by no stretch the majority sentiment on the board. I, for one, always enjoy having opposing fans on the game thread.

Still, can't see where that labels us terrible or disrespectful.

Peace!


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## Vintage

> Originally posted by <b>Wynn</b>!
> 
> 
> Not sure what we did to merit this label. Seems like most of us are staying in our own forum and posting our honest opinions on our own game thread. Seems like one poster had a couple of posts to the effect of "go back to your own board", but that was by no stretch the majority sentiment on the board. I, for one, always enjoy having opposing fans on the game thread.
> 
> Still, can't see where that labels us terrible or disrespectful.
> 
> Peace!



BBS's latest gem of a thread, for starters.

And Wynn, no one is calling you out. You are a class act.


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## Wynn

> Originally posted by <b>Vintage</b>!
> 
> And Wynn, no one is calling you out. You are a class act.


While I certainly appreciate your sentiment, *Vintage!*, I was certainly one of the posters on our game thread complaining about phantom calls in the first three quarters of the game. Just don't see where that merits being considered "terrible" or "disrespectful". Given that this appears to be a discussion between us, though, we might as well take it back home.

I wish the Piston success this season, except where it hurts the Bull. For the record, I feel like the Piston has one of the best team concepts in the game right now, and am happy that I see the Bull following the Piston team model.


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## DetBNyce

> Originally posted by <b>Wynn</b>!
> 
> 
> While I certainly appreciate your sentiment, *Vintage!*, I was certainly one of the posters on our game thread complaining about phantom calls in the first three quarters of the game. Just don't see where that merits being considered "terrible" or "disrespectful". Given that this appears to be a discussion between us, though, we might as well take it back home.
> 
> I wish the Piston success this season, except where it hurts the Bull. For the record, I feel like the Piston has one of the best team concepts in the game right now, and am happy that I see the Bull following the Piston team model.





> Originally posted by <b>KHinrich12</b>!
> Go home.
> No one said the TO's were the refs fault you ****ing moron.





> Originally posted by <b>greekbullsfan</b>!
> 
> 
> yo punk get your ****ing *** out of our board


Those were responses to two Pistons fans. I'd like to stay out of situations liek this, but you keep saying you dont see where they were disrespectful, so there it is.


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## ian

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> hypocrite


Is your location a troll against the Pistons? Everything you say seems to be an obvious troll, how is it you're not banned?


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## ViciousFlogging

I think the root of the complaints about the officiating in the Bulls' thread, and heck, here too, simply stems from the fact that it was a very physical game. Bulls fans, in their/our game thread, were seeing the Pistons "get away" with a lot of physical stuff down low and some holds, and got irritated by that. However, it went both ways. The Bulls were dishing it out as well as they took it, and late in the game the calls went our way - and I think the reason for this was that the Pistons responded to some calls in a poor-sport type of way. While those calls could have gone against the Bulls too, they weren't the huge travesties of justice that Sheed, Ben and Rip tried to make them out to be. After that, the refs seemed to be watching the Pistons much closer, as if out of spite.

so, ridicule the Bulls' fanbase if you must, but that's just what fans do. They see every push and bump against their team, but when they're the aggressors, it's just good, tough ball.


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## kingofkings

The Pistons problems as I see it, is that they need a pure gunner off the bench. The team is full of system players, but they really need a guy coming off the bench and looking for his shot.

A guy that can come off the bench, be selfish at times and look to get to the rim and get an offensive spark. They are lacking a guy like this in my opinion. A guy that can give the spark and get the team going with his offense and change the system up.

They have their designated scorers, but lack a pure gunner, in which I described.

Which is why I think that a Bonzi Wells or someone like that would be a decent pickup. He can come in, pick up the slack with his offense and look to score.


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## Wynn

> Originally posted by <b>DetBNyce</b>!
> 
> Those were responses to two Pistons fans. I'd like to stay out of situations liek this, but you keep saying you dont see where they were disrespectful, so there it is.


I appreciate your response and your effort to stay out of any bickering. I acknowledged those posts in my first reply and agree they were disrespectful. However, there were probably close to 30 posters on the board during the game (heck, there are still 20 posters on the board now). If a game thread of 327 replies and 4589 views has two disrespectful posts, that's hardly enough to indict an entire fan base.

Admittedly we're giddy for our first trip to .500 in seven seasons. It's especially enjoyable because it was against a team that most of us consider to be very good. Also it's understandable for Piston fans to be frustrated at the outcome of this game. It just seems a little outrageous to claim that "Bulls posters are terrible and disrespectful" because of two posts.

Again, Peace!


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## GB

> Originally posted by <b>kingofkings</b>!
> The Pistons problems as I see it, is that they need a pure gunner off the bench. The team is full of system players, but they really need a guy coming off the bench and looking for his shot.
> 
> A guy that can come off the bench, be selfish at times and look to get to the rim and get an offensive spark. They are lacking a guy like this in my opinion. A guy that can give the spark and get the team going with his offense and change the system up.
> 
> They have their designated scorers, but lack a pure gunner, in which I described.
> 
> Which is why I think that a Bonzi Wells or someone like that would be a decent pickup. He can come in, pick up the slack with his offense and look to score.


Like Nick Van Exel did for the Mavs?

Really good idea. Not sure Browm likes freelancers.


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## DetBNyce

> Originally posted by <b>kingofkings</b>!
> The Pistons problems as I see it, is that they need a pure gunner off the bench. The team is full of system players, but they really need a guy coming off the bench and looking for his shot.
> 
> A guy that can come off the bench, be selfish at times and look to get to the rim and get an offensive spark. They are lacking a guy like this in my opinion. A guy that can give the spark and get the team going with his offense and change the system up.
> 
> They have their designated scorers, but lack a pure gunner, in which I described.
> 
> Which is why I think that a Bonzi Wells or someone like that would be a decent pickup. He can come in, pick up the slack with his offense and look to score.


Hopefully this is what Delfino can provide us when he returns, because like you said we need that "sparkplug" off the bench. Arroyo seems to have a little of that in him too, although I have to see more of him to make a full assessment of his game.


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## ian

Tayshaun is that sparkplug sometimes, same for Rasheed. Not consistently, however 

Chauncey in the last 2 minutes or right after a run by the other team.

Otherwise it's just the same old system.


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## PacersguyUSA

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> Maybe if we won every single game we played, Pacersguy would never show up on this board again and it would be 100 times better than it is right now. This guy is such a troll, on any other board he would have been reported and banned long ago.
> 
> I'm willing to bet, many Pistons fans have viewed this site, saw the crap he's pulled, and decided not to even register. After all, who wants to deal with someone like that? I'm glad basketballboards.net does offer the ignore function, but to say he's disrupting would be an understatement.





> I do have a problem with someone telling me to "take yo punk *** out of the bulls board and go back to your 2-3 page game thread" for stating a dissenting opinion.


Point proven. Good night.

P.S.: You still want Darko over Brezec?


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## kingofkings

Of course the problem is Brown in getting that type of player. But why does everything have to be done within the confines of a system? They need a guy to come in with all guns blazing and look to score and create that spark and not have to worry about confinement.

Just for say 15-20 minutes to change the tempo and style of the game.Get something going and get the team more energised.

Two words I hate in the NBA are system and structure. I think they are both overated to be honest. Which is why the Pistons need to change things up and get this type of player!


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## ian

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Point proven. Good night.
> 
> P.S.: You still want Darko over Brezec?


Yeah, you're just a dissenting opinion. 

A crass, obnoxious dissenting opinion to every single opinion that any Detroit fan offers.


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## PacersguyUSA

> Originally posted by <b>ian</b>!
> 
> 
> Is your location a troll against the Pistons? Everything you say seems to be an obvious troll, how is it you're not banned?


Not sure why I'd be banned. I try my hardest only to post the truth. You're complaining about the quote in the location, but it's not like I made up the quote. I've been able to decisively win many debates on this website, who's board's purpose is mainly to debate. I support my opinions with with reliable evidence, and contribute by posting interesting finding of mine on the "Everything But Basketball" forum and the "Everything Hip-Hop" forum. From what I can tell, I am fairly well like on the Pacers board as well (see numerous "Pacer Post of the Month" threads). I also pride myself in posting with logic. In conclusion, that is why I have not been banned yet.


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## PacersguyUSA

> Originally posted by <b>ian</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, you're just a dissenting opinion.
> 
> A crass, obnoxious dissenting opinion to every single opinion that any Detroit fan offers.


Nice metaphor  I bet you got a A+ on your literature test today! You're logic and reasoning test though....well, maybe you'll get it next time.


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## ian

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> 
> 
> Nice metaphor  I bet you got a A+ on your literature test today! You're logic and reasoning test though....well, maybe you'll get it next time.


Keep digging.


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## DetBNyce

> Originally posted by <b>kingofkings</b>!
> Of course the problem is Brown in getting that type of player. But why does everything have to be done within the confines of a system? They need a guy to come in with all guns blazing and look to score and create that spark and not have to worry about confinement.
> 
> Just for say 15-20 minutes to change the tempo and style of the game.Get something going and get the team more energised.
> 
> Two words I hate in the NBA are system and structure. I think they are both overated to be honest. Which is why the Pistons need to change things up and get this type of player!


In all fairness, we've had guys like that in the past, but to get guys like Sheed and to have the ability to re-sign guys like Ben Wallace and Tayshaun Prince we had to let some of those guys go. Corliss Williamson, Bob Sura, Jon Barry, and Mike James come to mind immediately. That's the cost of being a good team, eventually you have so many good players that you can;t afford to pay for them all. I stil would like to see what Delfino and Arroyo can bring to the table.


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## PacersguyUSA

> Originally posted by <b>ian</b>!
> 
> 
> Keep digging.


Alright, I shall make it simple for you. I've had experience "dumbing things down" for jvanbusk before in the topic regarding the similarties shared by Milicic and Brezec, so perhaps you will understand.



_"I do have a problem with someone telling me to "take yo punk *** out of the bulls board and go back to your 2-3 page game thread" for stating a dissenting opinion."_


Within this block of text, jvanbusk is condemning the Bulls posters that ask him in a harsh manner (using insults) to get out of the Bulls' forum because he stated a dissenting opinion.



_"Maybe if we won every single game we played, Pacersguy would never show up on this board again and it would be 100 times better than it is right now. This guy is such a troll, on any other board he would have been reported and banned long ago.

I'm willing to bet, many Pistons fans have viewed this site, saw the crap he's pulled, and decided not to even register. After all, who wants to deal with someone like that? I'm glad basketballboards.net does offer the ignore function, but to say he's disrupting would be an understatement."_

Within this block of text, jvanbusk is condemning I, PacersguyUSA, for stating dissenting opinions about the Pistons and the Piston board posters, and implying that he wishes for me to leave the Pistons board. He even uses the insult of "troll" after complaining about the Bulls posters' use of the phrase "punk ***" as directed towards him.

The reason jvanbusk is a hypocrite is that he becomes unhappy when others want him out of their board for posting dissenting opinions, and a few posts later, he states his desire for me to leave the Piston board for posting dissenting opinions.

I appologize because this post did not make the logic simple enough for you, however, we can discuss the matter in the form of PMs if you still do not understand, as I fear the furthering of discussion here will only continue to bother the fine members of the Piston board community.


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## Vintage

I can't help but wonder if PacersguyUSA actually believes the crap he spews.


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## PacersguyUSA

> Originally posted by <b>Vintage</b>!
> I can't help but wonder if PacersguyUSA actually believes the crap he spews.


In some of my posts, I acutally have not held the position I was arguing, but I found it fun and challenging to try and win.


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## ian

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> 
> 
> In some of my posts, I acutally have not held the position I was arguing, but I found it fun and challenging to try and win.


I understood your point the first time and now you're just supporting my belief: You post not because of a serious disagreement but because you want to incite people. Sometimes you happen to seriously disagree but that's just a coincidence.


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## kingofkings

What you fail to mention about jvanbusk, is that he was one of the original members of this site, was a former mod of the Pistons board and was one of the reasons why this forum got off the ground.

He is a guy that is respected around this forum and as such he is more than entitled to his own opinions.

Calling him a hypocrite is plain wrong and insulting, which is why I felt the need to respond. Not that he needs my support or anything. But if guests are reading the negative comments about him, then he needs to be backed up.


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## PacersguyUSA

> Originally posted by <b>ian</b>!
> 
> 
> I understood your point the first time and now you're just supporting my belief: You post not because of a serious disagreement but because you want to incite people. Sometimes you happen to seriously disagree but that's just a coincidence.


That's a generalization that I do not appreciate. Most of the time I do earnestly hold the postition that I debate. The two, and only two, times I have not are in the Animal Rights debate (I don't believe in their rights to an extent, but not the extent I was arguing), and some debate a long time ago regarding a trade the Pacers made.


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## MLKG

> Originally posted by <b>Vintage</b>!
> I can't help but wonder if PacersguyUSA actually believes the crap he spews.


Long ago I came to the conclusion that he doesn't. He's just an *** trying to get a rise out of people so I tend to deny him that pleasure.

....and I refuse to believe otherwise.


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## PacersguyUSA

> Originally posted by <b>kingofkings</b>!
> What you fail to mention about jvanbusk, is that he was one of the original members of this site, was a former mod of the Pistons board and was one of the reasons why this forum got off the ground.


I didn't mention that because it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. I'm not doubting that reputation.



> He is a guy that is respected around this forum and as such


I never said he isn't.



> he is more than entitled to his own opinions.


obviously




> Calling him a hypocrite is plain wrong and insulting, which is why I felt the need to respond. Not that he needs my support or anything.


Actually, it is quite correct, as proved in a preceding post.



> But if guests are reading the negative comments about him, then he needs to be backed up.


But he doesn't deseve to be, in my opinion.


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## ian

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> 
> 
> That's a generalization that I do not appreciate. Most of the time I do earnestly hold the postition that I debate. The two, and only two, times I have not are in the Animal Rights debate (I don't believe in their rights to an extent, but not the extent I was arguing), and some debate a long time ago regarding a trade the Pacers made.


Show me some positive posts you've made concerning the Pistons. I'm not going to continue derailing this, I think it's obvious to everyone that reads this board on a regular basis what you are.

Sorry everyone for going on for so long, "don't feed the trolls," right? :sigh:


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## MLKG

> Originally posted by <b>kingofkings</b>!
> The Pistons problems as I see it, is that they need a pure gunner off the bench. The team is full of system players, but they really need a guy coming off the bench and looking for his shot.
> 
> A guy that can come off the bench, be selfish at times and look to get to the rim and get an offensive spark. They are lacking a guy like this in my opinion. A guy that can give the spark and get the team going with his offense and change the system up.
> 
> They have their designated scorers, but lack a pure gunner, in which I described.
> 
> Which is why I think that a Bonzi Wells or someone like that would be a decent pickup. He can come in, pick up the slack with his offense and look to score.


I agree and that's where I think the Pistons miss Carlos Delfino. He's like a cross between Ginobili and Nocioni- can shoot the ball and is creative off the dribble, but also always seems to be around the ball and rebounds well.

I think Chauncey also used to be the guy who went outside the system to get points and he's not doing that this year at all. The only thing he really does to score anymore is just shoot 3's and long 2's. He rarely gets penetration anymore for kick outs.

That's also where I hope maybe Arroyo can push him a little, because from what I saw of him tonight, it's going to be hard to keep Arroyo off the floor.

It also will be interesting to see how the Carlos's work together. With those 2, Dupree, and McDyess they really should be able to put together a formidable fast break.


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## DetBNyce

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> Long ago I came to the conclusion that he doesn't. He's just an *** trying to get a rise out of people so I tend to deny him that pleasure.


This is basically what he's trying to do. He doesn't have anyhting relevant to say, so just ignore him. If you can't do that on your own, you can put him on your ignore list.

This post is for Pistons fans in general.


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## PacersguyUSA

> Originally posted by <b>ian</b>!
> 
> 
> Show me some positive posts you've made concerning the Pistons. I'm not going to continue derailing this, I think it's obvious to everyone that reads this board on a regular basis what you are.
> 
> Sorry everyone for going on for so long, "don't feed the trolls," right? :sigh:


That's easy enough. Search is in progress....


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## Wynn

> Originally posted by <b>Mike luvs KG</b>!
> 
> I agree and that's where I think the Pistons miss Carlos Delfino. He's like a cross between Ginobili and Nocioni- can shoot the ball and is creative off the dribble, but also always seems to be around the ball and rebounds well.


I'm not as familiar with the Piston, but isn't this supposed to be what Darko will provide whenever he's allowed on the court?



> It also will be interesting to see how the Carlos's work together. With those 2, Dupree, and McDyess they really should be able to put together a formidable fast break.


I really liked Dupree's energy with the Bull last season. I wouldn't mind having him on our bench now. Was glad to see him get PT with the Piston tonight.


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## PacersguyUSA

> Originally posted by <b>ian</b>!
> 
> 
> Show me some positive posts you've made concerning the Pistons. I'm not going to continue derailing this, I think it's obvious to everyone that reads this board on a regular basis what you are.
> 
> Sorry everyone for going on for so long, "don't feed the trolls," right? :sigh:


http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1322966#post1322966

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1282588#post1282588

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1416728#post1416728

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1278912#post1278912

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=726028#post726028

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1340496#post1340496

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1092770#post1092770

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1686529#post1686529

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1386236#post1386236


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## jvanbusk

> Originally posted by <b>Wynn</b>!
> 
> 
> I appreciate your response and your effort to stay out of any bickering. I acknowledged those posts in my first reply and agree they were disrespectful. However, there were probably close to 30 posters on the board during the game (heck, there are still 20 posters on the board now). If a game thread of 327 replies and 4589 views has two disrespectful posts, that's hardly enough to indict an entire fan base.
> 
> Admittedly we're giddy for our first trip to .500 in seven seasons. It's especially enjoyable because it was against a team that most of us consider to be very good. Also it's understandable for Piston fans to be frustrated at the outcome of this game. It just seems a little outrageous to claim that "Bulls posters are terrible and disrespectful" because of two posts.
> 
> Again, Peace!


Wynn,

Just about every post for about two pages was complaining about the officiating. This strikes a bad cord with me, and many other people. I mean, I can understand if the refs miss an important call and you get pissed about it. I do that all the time. But tonight Bulls fans came off as complaining about every single whistle, and a more smug attitude that the only way the Pistons could actually beat the Bulls or anybody else was with the help of the officials. Next, I did not particularly care for the way in which your fellow group continuously called the Pistons players a bunch of punks for complaining to the officials about questionable calls. I would say the majority of the league complains or "whines" to the officials when a call does not go their way. It's almost become part of the game. Nearly every single Bulls player that I saw tonight complained to the officials about a whistle. I'm not going to label them punks. And afterall, weren't Bulls fans doing a ton of complaining/whining tonight?

That added to the fact to the way in which I was told to leave the board, plus a later thread started by a Bulls board member doesn't heighten my opinion of your fanbase. 

The Bulls board does have many great posters: Mikedc, TomB, superdave, just to name a few. But, what I've seen tonight from many Bulls posters was far from classy, and more along the lines of downright disrespectful.

I knew I said earlier that my rant was finished, but I feel you as someone that appears to be highly respected on the Bulls board deserved an explanation. So that's my opinion, you can disagree if you like, but that's the impression I got tonight.


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## P33r~

> Originally posted by <b>PacersguyUSA</b>!
> 
> 
> http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1322966#post1322966
> 
> http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1282588#post1282588
> 
> http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1416728#post1416728
> 
> http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1278912#post1278912
> 
> http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=726028#post726028
> 
> http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1340496#post1340496
> 
> http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1092770#post1092770
> 
> http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1686529#post1686529
> 
> http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1386236#post1386236


:laugh: Man what is that, maybe the first two or three are positive and the rest are like one/few word posts which show a subtle criticism, if anything.

Your only positive comment towards the pistons all came much much earlier. Your view of the entire pistons roster changed from "getting (your) vote" for the best team, to "the dirtiest team in the league". That's your opinion and it's fine if you think that, but that last quote was most definetely one of the nicer ones you've been using against our team and our fan base lately. Also you're starting to spew some of that stuff into other team's game threads vs the pistons.

Anyhow, I don't even want to talk about SOME of the Bulls posters. I tell them their passing turnovers can't be blamed on the officiating and a guy calls me a "****ing moron."


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## dkg1

> Originally posted by <b>jvanbusk</b>!
> The people that are posting right now I have no problem with....
> 
> I do have a problem with someone telling me to "take yo punk *** out of the bulls board and go back to your 2-3 page game thread" for stating a dissenting opinion.
> 
> I have a problem with people *****ing and moaning about every single whistle, and at the same time call the Pistons players a bunch of punks for complaining about questionable calls.


jvanbusk, I believe I told you to go back to your two or three page thread. While I was out of line to say that, understand that it was a game thread. If you look at a typical Bulls game thread, they are 20+ pages and people are posting at a rapid rate. During a game thread, many things are written in the heat of the moment that are given little thought. Kirk Hinrich has been released 200,000 times this year in game threads after he's missed 4 shots in a row. Typically there's a lot of disagreement and things that normally wouldn't be said in a Bull's game thread but we understand that things get too emotional in these threads and move on. 

If you have a problem with Bulls fans *****ing and moaning about calls they feel they should be getting, the Bulls-Pistons game thread is probably the wrong place to go. It's a Bulls message board, people are going to get fed up and complain when the Piston's are getting the lion's share of the calls (right or wrong, that's the way I felt) and then getting in the official's ear during every time out. That's what fans do! When you come into a thread and question our opinions while everyone is riled up, you will probably get some unfavorable responses. Some of those replies were over the top (mine included), but again people were caught up in the game too. 

At any rate, I've rambled long enough. I hope you get the idea that we are fans get a little too wound up in these game threads. I apologize for telling you to get lost after you gave your opinion. You seem like a good poster, I hope to see you back in the Bulls forum. Good luck to your team the rest of the year.


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## PacersguyUSA

> Originally posted by <b>dkg1</b>!
> 
> 
> jvanbusk, I believe I told you to go back to your two or three page thread. While I was out of line to say that, understand that it was a game thread. If you look at a typical Bulls game thread, they are 20+ pages and people are posting at a rapid rate. During a game thread, many things are written in the heat of the moment that are given little thought. Kirk Hinrich has been released 200,000 times this year in game threads after he's missed 4 shots in a row. Typically there's a lot of disagreement and things that normally wouldn't be said in a Bull's game thread but we understand that things get too emotional in these threads and move on.
> 
> If you have a problem with Bulls fans *****ing and moaning about calls they feel they should be getting, the Bulls-Pistons game thread is probably the wrong place to go. It's a Bulls message board, people are going to get fed up and complain when the Piston's are getting the lion's share of the calls (right or wrong, that's the way I felt) and then getting in the official's ear during every time out. That's what fans do! When you come into a thread and question our opinions while everyone is riled up, you will probably get some unfavorable responses. Some of those replies were over the top (mine included), but again people were caught up in the game too.
> 
> At any rate, I've rambled long enough. I hope you get the idea that we are fans get a little too wound up in these game threads. I apologize for telling you to get lost after you gave your opinion. You seem like a good poster, I hope to see you back in the Bulls forum. Good luck to your team the rest of the year.


This is none of my business, but I'd just like to say that was a good humbling.


----------

