# (Official?) What would you do this offseason?



## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

All of us have different ideas of what we would like to do this offseason (FAs, draft, trades, etc). I'd like to have a thread where we could keep these ideas somewhat central, and all of us could put forth a plan for what we would do in the offseason if we were in BC's shoes.
The idea is to keep it realistic and maybe briefly explain why for each move. It would be best if we could keep the moves to a minimum (maybe 5?) plus draft. Maybe at the end, give a depth chart and maybe mpg you would expect next season. 
Mods if you think this is a bad idea, just lock or delete this.

This would be mine:

*Draft Day*:
Deal with NO and Milwaukee
Toronto gets: Mags, 2006 Bucks pick via Hornets, 2008 Milwaukee first (at most top 10 protected)
Milwaukee gets: 2006 Hornets pick, JR Smith, Eric Williams, Bonner
New Orleans gets: 2006 TO 1st, Sow, 2006 Rockets 2nd via Milwaukee

Toronto gets toughness in the middle and the hometown kid plus some future picks. Make it known that he will be resigned at 9-10 per in the 07 offseason (yes, he's worth it, look at what other centres are signing for nowadays). By sending out 7 million in salary, we're not eating up all of our capspace.
Bucks get a late lotto pick, an uber-talented young wing who happens to be in a bad situation now, plus some nice role players in Bonner and Williams.
NO gets a shot at filling the whole at the 3 with a good shot at Gay with the 5th. Sow is a bargain at $1million at the 4/5.

_With the Bucks pick (17th)_, select _Hilton Armstrong_. An experienced college player who's played in a top program with great players. Decent offensive game, really good rebounder and shotblocker.

_2nd round pick: (35th)__Bobby Jones._ I liked what I saw when I watched him in a few Huskies games this year. Showed up huge during the PIT and I expect his stock will start to rise after Orlando camp and workouts. Really nice defensive player at the 2 or 3.

_2nd round Miami pick(56th)_: Euro project, someone who won't take up a roster spot for a few years, don't really care who it is.

*Signings:*

_Roko Ukic_ to a similar contract to Jose Calderon. The guy is in a bad situation in TAU, there seems to be some sort of feud between him and his coach. From the few games I've seen (Euros and Tau games) I think he's just as talented as any of the guards in this year's draft.

_Uros Slokar_ to a Sow type of contract (650 1st year, 1 mil 2nd year, team option on a 3rd). Fills Bonner's role. Expect nothing but spot minutes from this guy, but talented enough to step into a more significant backup role if someone gets injured.

_Darrick Martin_ to a vet min. Player/Coach/Cheerleader

I just don't see the benefit of bringing James back (see my other posts).

*2006/2007 Depth Chart and MPG*

PG- Calderon (25-30), Ukic (15-20), Barrett
SG- Peterson (35), Graham (10), Ukic/Jones
SF- Villanueva (30), Graham (15), Jones
PF- Bosh (35), Villanueva (5), Armstrong (5-10), Slokar
C- Magloire (30), Araujo(5-15)/Armstrong(5-15)* depending on matchups, Slokar

Inactive list: Martin, Alvin Williams (if he doesn't retire), leave one roster spot open.

So the main rotation is 8/9 man. I don't think anyone should be pushing more than 35 mpg on average, just too much wear and tear on players bodies. The team overall is pretty young, but we've got experienced guys in MoPete, Magloire and even Bosh (I know it will only be his 4th season) who can show leadership on the team.

Since we're only taking on an extra million and a half in the draft day deal, and spending a million less on the draft pick by trading down. We will still have a lot of capspace to take on a bigger salary at the deadline if the opportunity arises, which is a realistic possibility with so many teams clamouring for capspace for the 2007 season.


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

i dont like it at all.

as many have said b4, y trade for mags juss for one year? i mean he's a FA in 2007, i'm pretty sure we could make a pitch to get his services in TO without wasting a 2006 top 5 pick. and drafting hilton armstrong right after trading for magloire!?!? not wat we need. we need a solid PG instead, mayb marcus williams.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

aizn said:


> i dont like it at all.
> 
> as many have said b4, y trade for mags juss for one year? i mean he's a FA in 2007, i'm pretty sure we could make a pitch to get his services in TO without wasting a 2006 top 5 pick. and drafting hilton armstrong right after trading for magloire!?!? not wat we need. we need a solid PG instead, mayb marcus williams.


There have been other threads where I've said that getting Mags this year puts us in the best position to re-sign him in 2007 as we can go over the cap to do it plus give him a longer deal. Getting Mags into Toronto before he's a FA will do nothing but make it easier to resign him when the time comes. Why not get him and have the frontcourt of Charlie, Bosh and Mags start working together next season rather than 2007/2008?
Also, we're not losing a pick this year completely but moving down 10-12 spots in a draft where there are lots of question marks at the 5th. Are we really giving up all that much?
As far as Hilton goes, our depth up front is terrible, he'd be a really solid addition at the 4/5. And I doubt that Marcus Williams will fall out of the top 10, and I'm not sold on Rondo being a better PG than Ukic.

What would you do?


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

- A good draft pick or two;
- A good trade or two;
- A good signing or two.

And I'm happy.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

speedythief said:


> - A good draft pick or two;
> - A good trade or two;
> - A good signing or two.
> 
> And I'm happy.


Ah, simplicity.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

speedythief said:


> - A good draft pick or two;
> - A good trade or two;
> - A good signing or two.
> 
> And I'm happy.


 Pretty much. With our position in the draft there isn't really anyone I'd be too upset with taking, as long as we don't pull another Hoffa. Roy, Shelden, Carney, or if someone higher up drops, I'd be happy with. And then go into free agency trying to fill some holes we couldn't with the draft.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Nothing to groudbreaking or experimental here, though a tad hopeful perhaps.

Draft Brandon Roy- versatile scorer that can defend and make plays.

Sign Mike James to the 3 year deal. The guys only going to get better as our team improves. Need shooters to open up the floor for Bosh. Best PG free agent and we'd be lost without him. Only don't sign him unless the cost is much too great or BC is prepared to tank again next year.

Sign Joey Przybilla- If Charlie's at the 3, I'd like a shotblocker at the 5. With an improved Hoffa off the bench our center rotation would be much better than it has ever been- serious muscle to take the heat off Chrish and Charlie.

Sign Qyntell Woods. Not positive he's a free agent but I'd like to acquire him if he is. Bit of a dubious character but he's getting playing time from Larry Brown and that's enough for me. He's looking a lot bigger/stronger than his portland days and he'd give us the long, (backup) athletic small forward that I want. Should come pretty cheap too.

Second rounder... is there room on the roster? An athlete of some kind would be nice- James White for example. Might have to head to Europe. 

Keep Ukic and Slokar in Europe. They're with quality programs and we shouldn't spend our cap space on them when we already hold their rights. 

If Jay Williams is healthy I'd give him the shot to be our third guard (beat out Barrett).

James/Calderon/Jwill/Barrett
Mo Pete/Roy
Charlie/Graham/Qwoods
Bosh/Sow/Bonner
Przybilla/Hoffa

Looks pretty good to me.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Give Wallace a max deal, trade our pick down with NO if we can't get Aldridge, and get sheldon and a PG, and draft Denham with our second pick.


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## MangoMangoMango (Jan 23, 2004)

with our pick...draft either

Yi JianLian
Rudy Gay
Aldridge
or
Bargnani


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Yi JianLian is declaring???


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## [email protected] (Sep 27, 2005)

honestly, how much tuning do we really need
an intense rebounding block shotting big man, defensive intensity, some maturity and more chemistry

no facelifts needed


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Having no players pass away.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

MangoMangoMango said:


> with our pick...draft either
> 
> Yi JianLian
> Rudy Gay
> ...


If we draft Yi JianLian, Aldridge, Bargnani i will be PISSED!!!!!!

How are those players different from bosh or charlie V????
Some people thought drafting charlie V was a stretch (i wasnt one of them) but why push our luck. 2 PF starting is good enough. Would you want these players to come off the bench? Play center? lol. I say draft a PG or C or maybe a nice swing man. NOT ANOTHER PF!!!! seriously.

I would also be happy with quentel woods, but im not too sure that would be realistic. NY probably wants to keep him although he is a FA in 06;
http://www.nationwide.net/~patricia/contracts

Id also like to see the raptors make a deal for TJ ford maybe somehow involving Mags, (aslong as the trade doesnt involve CV or Bosh im happy)


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

You rather start Pape Sow over LaMarcus Aldridge?

:nonono:

He can play PF or C.


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

Someone I dont really know anything about first hand. But, from what I hear, I like. is Tiaggo Splitter. He doesnt block many shots, just plays good, strong in front of his man defense. He is aparently a legit, 6'11" or 7', and is long fella. Uber quick for a big as well. He also has a frame that muscle could be added to relatively easily. I think against most teams in the league we could play, Bosh, CV, and Splitter all at the same time. Be rediculuously tall and long. Splitter could play tight D on the best opposing big man, and then Bosh and CV could come across for weak side blocks. Against the strongest centres in the league, like Shaq, Brad Miller, Eddy Curry, we could rotate Hoffa in to help out a bit, and be annoying. I think a trade where we grabbed a pass first point gaurd, moved our pick down 5 or so spots and gave up some salary of our own to give us flexibility in free agent season. Would be excellent.

Basically, from my non-expert stand point. If we could somehow add say.... Ridnour/TJ Ford/(unlikely but stillllll) telfair... and then Splitter, and a wing man... I think that would be a good place to spend most of our money... Someone mentioned Gerald Wallace. An athlete like him that will play defense would be cool.

Depth Chart....

Splitter - Araujo, Bosh, Bonner
Bosh - Charlie, Bonner
Wallace - Charlie
Peterson - Graham
Ridnour - Calderon


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

TheATLien said:


> You rather start Pape Sow over LaMarcus Aldridge?
> 
> :nonono:
> 
> He can play PF or C.


Why not just draft or trade for a true center. Bosh would be more capable of playing center in the NBA than Aldridge.

:nonono:


What would be the point of drafting YI or Splitter or Bargani? Its just cause some people on here (the raptors board) are obsessed with international players. 

Seriously, Im getting sick of this ****.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Seriously, have you even seen LaMarcus Aldridge play? There is no reason he can't play the 5 in the NBA. Especially in the East. Plug Villy, Bosh, and Aldridge in the frontcourt. Unless you still think Araujo can turn it around.

I don't understand what you are mad at. Toronto needs a center, correct?

Aldridge is American, FYI.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

TheATLien said:


> Seriously, have you even seen LaMarcus Aldridge play? There is no reason he can't play the 5 in the NBA. Especially in the East. Plug Villy, Bosh, and Aldridge in the frontcourt. Unless you still think Araujo can turn it around.
> 
> I don't understand what you are mad at. Toronto needs a center, correct?
> 
> Aldridge is American, FYI.


Ya, i know aldridge is american. Lamarcus Aldridge, Texas PF, 6'11 245. I thought Lamarcus was a russian name . Ive seen him play ya. I definately dont think hoffa (or that stupid bum as i like to call him) can turn it around either. 

Aldridge might be an OK pick. I just cant see why people on here keep talking about Yi, bargani, and splitter. They are all pure PFs. We shouldnt waste a top 5 pick on a player that isnt going to start.

Say, bargani wows everyone and turns out to be the next Gasol . We still wouldnt be able to start him unless we wanted charlie to come off the bench. I dont get peoples reasoning when they say we should draft Yi, bargani, and splitter.


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

If I was GM, I would:

1. Sign Pryzbilla to a 4 (maybe 5) year deal at about $6-7 million per year. Bring out Mitchell and Bosh to wine and dine him, a la Burnett and the Jays. He wants to win and he wants effort. The Raptors have the latter and are looking for the former.

2. Draft Marcus Williams (PG-UConn) with the 1st rounder. Yes, that may be too high. But he's just the PG the Raptors need badly. With the 2nd rounder, draft Maurice Ager (SG-MSU) if he's there. He's a winner, too, and will supplement the attitude the Raptors are trying to create.

3. Sign PF/C Lorenzen Wright to a 1-year deal with a team option for the 2nd year and a player option for the 3rd. This should keep him sufficiently motivated for a couple of years to provide rebounding and defense. I see him backing up Bosh and playing with him when Pryzbilla is tired.

4. Sign the immortal Sean Marks. This is because I want to see him play in a game (I remember going to Raptors games and chanting "Play Sean Marks!" in garbage time with my friends).

5. Find some way to get rid of Araujo. I thought of proposing a couple of trades but I always propose trades that are wildly one-sided. Therefore, I say trade Araujo (package him with Slokar) if necessary for a couple of draft picks and possibly a player, depending how desperate the other team is. Worst case, I package him with Eric Williams' expiring contract or Alvin Williams' expiring contract at some point.

Anyway, this leaves a roster of:

PG: M. Williams / Calderon / A. Williams
SG: Peterson / Ager
SF: Villanueva / Graham / E. Williams
PF: Bosh / Wright / Bonner
C: Pryzbilla / Sow / Marks / Araujo

Clearly, depth a centre is still a problem, but that can be addressed mid-season. Also, Wright can be used at C when necessary. I'd be on the lookout for useful C's and that would be my priority in the draft in 2007, to find a reliable, semi-developed college centre (methinks that's a pipe dream :biggrin.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

mo76 said:


> If we draft Yi JianLian, Aldridge, Bargnani i will be PISSED!!!!!!
> 
> How are those players different from bosh or charlie V????
> Some people thought drafting charlie V was a stretch (i wasnt one of them) but why push our luck. 2 PF starting is good enough. Would you want these players to come off the bench? Play center? lol. I say draft a PG or C or maybe a nice swing man. NOT ANOTHER PF!!!! seriously.
> ...




I think Aldridge will be capable of playing the C in the nba


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## cv3bandwagon (Mar 16, 2006)

Trade:
To Milwakee:
Toronto First Round Pick
Vitaly Potapenko

To Seatle:
Jamal Magloire
Jose Calderon

To Toronto:
Luke Ridnour
Danny Fortson
Francisco Garcia

To Sacramento:
Rafael Arajo (to be Brad Miller's aprentice/replacement)
Two Secound round draft picks (Toronto 06, New Orleans Future)

Sign:
Randolf Morris (3 years, leauge min)
Joel Prizybella (5 years, 42 million)
Bobby Jackson (Now sure what he's worth? 3 years 15 million?)

Draft:
Bobby Jones (Miami Pick)

line-up:
Prizybella-Sow-Morris
Bosh-Bonner-Fortson
Villanueva-Graham-Eric Williams
Mo Pete-Francisco Garcia-Bobby Jones
Luke Ridnour-Jackson-Barret


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

^^^^^
I think in a year or two, there's not going to be too much difference between Jose and Luke. Our fifth pick is an awfully high price to pay for Ridnour, Fortson and Garcia, add in our 2nd plus Jose and Hoffa, then we're taking it in the poop chute.
And where is Ridnour on the depth chart? You spend our first pick on him than put Mike James ahead of him?


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## cv3bandwagon (Mar 16, 2006)

You gotta give up somehting to get something. I'm sorry but there are too many he can's and potenially about Calderon, while Luek is there. Will Jose ever get that jumpshot? You watch Luke play and you realize how good he is, I mean he makes some unbeliavealbe passes and then can create for himself it need be, which at times Caldeorn struggles at. How Valueable is this pick, really what can we draft that we need? In trade we can't get much more then this.

*Mike walks I just accidently put him on the depth chart instead of Luke,


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

isnt Yi like 7'2 or smoethin like that? how can a player like that not be considered a C?


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

aizn said:


> isnt Yi like 7'2 or smoethin like that? how can a player like that not be considered a C?


hes 6'11, like chris bosh. He has a small wingspan for his size like Yao. He also makes Chris Bosh look like shaq. Even tyrus thomas at 6'8- 6'9 would be much better center in the NBA. 

Do you even know who we are talking about?


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

cv3bandwagon said:


> You gotta give up somehting to get something. I'm sorry but there are too many he can's and potenially about Calderon, while Luek is there. Will Jose ever get that jumpshot? You watch Luke play and you realize how good he is, I mean he makes some unbeliavealbe passes and then can create for himself it need be, which at times Caldeorn struggles at. How Valueable is this pick, really what can we draft that we need? In trade we can't get much more then this.
> 
> *Mike walks I just accidently put him on the depth chart instead of Luke,


Arent we the wort defensive team in the league. If we arent, then seatle is. I dont think we should bring in a defensive liability. Ford > Ridenour for the raps. I could be wrong and Ridenour could be the next Nash like lots of people say, but i think Ford would be the smarter aquisition.


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

Meanwhile, in the real world, TJ Ford isn't going anywhere. At all. Ever. The Bucks saw how much he means to the team and they will clearly build around him and Bogut. The idea that they would deal Ford is almost as silly as the entire thread of "How to get Greg Oden here". It's not going to happen. Move on.

In the real world, the Raptors need to build with carefully-chosen veterans to fit specific needs. They need to draft Marcus Williams to be their point guard for the next 10 years. The need to find a shooter. Let me re-phrase that: they need to find a shooter who actually plays shooting guard. The Raptors cannot keep drafting and trading for infants. A team cannot win without its fair share of vets. And that, ladies and germs, is a stone cold fact.

So, in the off-season, Colangelo has to look for attainable targets. It's nice to think about Ford and Magloire and Stojakovic or Ben Wallace or whatever other big names are out there but take a page from the Pistons: build a team. Find players who don't mind sacrificing their stats for the greater good. Go get Pryzbilla because he LIKES to rebound and desperately wants to win. Get someone NBA-ready and clutch, like Maurice Ager. Look for serviceable backups and see what trades come up. Who knows? The Raptors might break that 33-win barrier sometime soon if they build a team (as opposed to a collection of talent).


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

narrator said:


> Meanwhile, in the real world, TJ Ford isn't going anywhere. At all. Ever. The Bucks saw how much he means to the team and they will clearly build around him and Bogut. The idea that they would deal Ford is almost as silly as the entire thread of "How to get Greg Oden here". It's not going to happen. Move on.
> 
> In the real world, the Raptors need to build with carefully-chosen veterans to fit specific needs. They need to draft Marcus Williams to be their point guard for the next 10 years. The need to find a shooter. Let me re-phrase that: they need to find a shooter who actually plays shooting guard. The Raptors cannot keep drafting and trading for infants. A team cannot win without its fair share of vets. And that, ladies and germs, is a stone cold fact.
> 
> So, in the off-season, Colangelo has to look for attainable targets. It's nice to think about Ford and Magloire and Stojakovic or Ben Wallace or whatever other big names are out there but take a page from the Pistons: build a team. Find players who don't mind sacrificing their stats for the greater good. Go get Pryzbilla because he LIKES to rebound and desperately wants to win. Get someone NBA-ready and clutch, like Maurice Ager. Look for serviceable backups and see what trades come up. Who knows? The Raptors might break that 33-win barrier sometime soon if they build a team (as opposed to a collection of talent).


Good post. I didnt say that TJ Ford in TO was highly probable, i just said i would rather have him than Ridenour, but i agree, I think the raps should just draft a PG. I like what you said about building a team, (like the pistons and spurs). I think its going to take a while for the raps to be a good team but when they are, they will be championship calliber, because the team will be built around to excellent big men.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

mo76 said:


> Good post. I didnt say that TJ Ford in TO was highly probable, i just said i would rather have him than Ridenour, but i agree, I think the raps should just draft a PG. I like what you said about building a team, (like the pistons and spurs). I think its going to take a while for the raps to be a good team but when they are, they will be championship calliber, because the team will be built around to excellent big men.


PS

I intended the Greg Oden thread to be pure comedy. Sorry no one thought it was funny but me.
GEEZ!!:curse:


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## cv3bandwagon (Mar 16, 2006)

Is Marcus Williams that much better then Calderon? Better then Roko? I dont think so, we need a guy to run the team now and to the future and that's Luke Ridnour.


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

mo76 said:


> hes 6'11, like chris bosh. He has a small wingspan for his size like Yao. He also makes Chris Bosh look like shaq. Even tyrus thomas at 6'8- 6'9 would be much better center in the NBA.
> 
> Do you even know who we are talking about?


according to nbadraft.net, he's 7 ft. and not all centers have to be bulky like shaq, take a look at nazr or nene, players that many people want here in toronto.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Explore trading down to Seattle for Ridnour and theirs for Joey or Jose plus our 1st.

If we have a pick high enough to select Morrison, or win the lotto, try to trade down w/o giving up Joey or Jose.

Select Shelden. Don't actually do the deal until you know Shelden is available at their pick.

Ridnour
Mo
CV
Bosh
Shelden

Select Sean Dockery or best Defensive PG available with #35.

Select Denham Brown or Marcus De Souza (Brazil) with #56.

______________________

If BC finds out that Ainge is in love with Shelden, take him with the bloody 5th pick. Yeah, I said it.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

aizn said:


> according to nbadraft.net, he's 7 ft. and not all centers have to be bulky like shaq, take a look at nazr or nene, players that many people want here in toronto.


still 7 ft isnt 7'3. And i think hes closer to 6'11 like i said. 
Nazr and Nene are huge. Id say they are both prototype centers. I ask again, do you even know who Yi is??? Have you seen a picture of him. He is a stick figure.
While nazr and nene arent as big as shaq, they are still a lot bigger than Yi. A heck of a lot.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

mo76 said:


> still 7 ft isnt 7'3. And i think hes closer to 6'11 like i said.
> Nazr and Nene are huge. Id say they are both prototype centers. I ask again, do you even know who Yi is??? Have you seen a picture of him. He is a stick figure.
> While nazr and nene arent as big as shaq, they are still a lot bigger than Yi. A heck of a lot.


Mo, you talk about him like you've spent a lot of time watching him. I didn't realize that they showed a lot of CBA in Canada. Having seen a few games lve up close and a lot of games on TV, I would say the guy is 7'0"(maybe 7'1") but as skinny or skinnier than Noah. Regardless, he doesn't play a centre's game and will most likely be a CV31 style PF/SF.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Him and Loren Woods could go head to head in a rib counting contest.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

Team Mao said:


> Mo, you talk about him like you've spent a lot of time watching him. I didn't realize that they showed a lot of CBA in Canada. Having seen a few games lve up close and a lot of games on TV, I would say the guy is 7'0"(maybe 7'1") but as skinny or skinnier than Noah. Regardless, *he doesn't play a centre's game and will most likely be a CV31 style PF/SF*.


Ive seen all the clips posted on this site. I mean, there must be a games worth of material right there. LOL.

Anyways;
why would the raptors be interested in him? Are we going to start him ahead of charlie V? . Why would you draft him? Cause you like chinease players. Talk about superficial. 
This thread is titled ;(Official?) What would you do this offseason?
If you want to praise YI jialian for being the next great thing to come to the NBA, go to the numerous Yi Jialian groupie threads on this site. As far as im concerned Yi and the raptors should have nothing to do with eachother. 
We need a center or a PG, not ANOTHER POWER FORWARD. (stevan A smith voice).


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

cv3bandwagon said:


> Is Marcus Williams that much better then Calderon? Better then Roko? I dont think so, we need a guy to run the team now and to the future and that's Luke Ridnour.


What makes you think Ridnour is so great????


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

mo76 said:


> Ive seen all the clips posted on this site. I mean, there must be a games worth of material right there. LOL.
> 
> Anyways;
> why would the raptors be interested in him? Are we going to start him ahead of charlie V? . Why would you draft him? Cause you like chinease players. Talk about superficial.
> ...


WHOAAA! I never said anywhere about wanting to draft the guy. I simply said what he will play in the NBA. Watching lots of his game, he is a skinnier, less skilled, less motivated, Charlie V with much less motivation. Unless the guy's attitude changes a lot between now and when he gets to the NBA, I don't expect much out of him.
Remember that all the clips posted on the internet are highlights, watching full games gives a much clearer picture about the guy. And the level of competition in the CBA is pretty poor.

ANd Mo, I agree with you on Ridnour, the guy really isn't that much better than a healthy Calderon. And because of Team USA he'll be looking at a big extension. Calderon is a bargain and a good PG, let's not give up on him yet


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

Team Mao said:


> WHOAAA! I never said anywhere about wanting to draft the guy. I simply said what he will play in the NBA. Watching lots of his game, he is a skinnier, less skilled, less motivated, Charlie V with much less motivation. Unless the guy's attitude changes a lot between now and when he gets to the NBA, I don't expect much out of him.
> Remember that all the clips posted on the internet are highlights, watching full games gives a much clearer picture about the guy. And the level of competition in the CBA is pretty poor.
> 
> ANd Mo, I agree with you on Ridnour, the guy really isn't that much better than a healthy Calderon. And because of Team USA he'll be looking at a big extension. Calderon is a bargain and a good PG, let's not give up on him yet


Hes not declaring this year anyways. Maybe im being a little hard on the guy. He might turn out to be an NBA player. I just have a general dislike of Yi. He seems cocky. He hangs on the rim for like 10 seconds everytime he dunks. I think he was born in 1984, not 1987. If he was really born in 1987, why is his age even in question? I mean, hes an interesting prospect but i think his hype has gotten out of control.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

*The "I want to win sooner" offseason*



Team Mao said:


> Changes have been made because I simply want to win earlier without jeopardizing the future of the team too much
> *Draft Day*:
> Deal with NO and Milwaukee
> Toronto gets: Mags, 2006 Bucks pick from NO, 2008 Milwaukee 1st*add:NO 2008 first**add: JR Smith*
> ...


Joey is moved in the draft day deal to bring in an additional future 1st and JR Smith who is a much more capable 2, despite the attitude could provide some scoring off the bench and still on rookie deal. Hoffa is moved rather than Sow to clear up more cap and as a former 1st round pick still has more value in trades than Sow. We get two picks in 2008 along with ours, going to be a strong draft year.

Peja is brought in to dare people to double on Bosh, plain and simple. Last year or 2 will be a high priced bench scorer. Villanueva is moved to the bench to be our scoring punch at the 3/4, should still be able to get 25-30 mpg, maybe around 15ppg in that time.

Overall we bring in some vets, but don't mess with too much of our youth. Win soon and still win later. Everything works cap-wise, using the information from this board, and hoopshype, we will come in at around $49 million next season, _that's without Alvin Williams retiring_.


----------



## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

*Re: The "I want to win sooner" offseason*

remember, if we make the playoffs, our first round pick get traded to the bobcats via the lamond murray trade with cleveland.


----------



## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

Draft the BPA, hopefully that's Gay or Splitter.

Re-sign James to a two year deal with a player option third.

If you've resigned MJ, and Mil wants a Bonner/ MoP package for Mags do it.


----------



## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

*Re: The "I want to win sooner" offseason*



aizn said:


> remember, if we make the playoffs, our first round pick get traded to the bobcats via the lamond murray trade with cleveland.


Yeah, but I'd rather make the playoffs. Every always wants to wait for next year's draft class or next year's FA class. We've got lots of youth playing key roles already, and land some good FAs this year.


----------



## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: The "I want to win sooner" offseason*



Team Mao said:


> Yeah, but I'd rather make the playoffs. Every always wants to wait for next year's draft class or next year's FA class. We've got lots of youth playing key roles already, and land some good FAs this year.


remember: Rome wasn't built in a day my friend.


----------



## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

*Re: The "I want to win sooner" offseason*



shookem said:


> remember: Rome wasn't built in a day my friend.


We still keep our key youth and add rebounding and toughness with Mags, a great scorer at the 3 in Stojakovic, plus some future 1sts in a few years. We're not mortgaging our future for the now, but perhaps winning now and still having great young players in key roles to ensure future success.


----------



## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: The "I want to win sooner" offseason*



Team Mao said:


> We still keep our key youth and add rebounding and toughness with Mags, a great scorer at the 3 in Stojakovic, plus some future 1sts in a few years. We're not mortgaging our future for the now, but perhaps winning now and still having great young players in key roles to ensure future success.


I agree, is just seems like a lot of steps for a 27 win team to make. 

I wouldn't sign Peja though, unless it was a bargain price.


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## adhir1 (Dec 28, 2004)

*Re: The "I want to win sooner" offseason*



shookem said:


> I agree, is just seems like a lot of steps for a 27 win team to make.
> 
> I wouldn't sign Peja though, unless it was a bargain price.



this is where i get confused..people want to sign Peja, want to draft Rudy Gay, where do they expect to play them? I mean Charlie has the 3 spot held down and he did very well for himself, do u consider him to be a 6th man off the bench? I sure dont, he is a legit starter in this league, so truly we only have 2 places where we have holes, the 5, and the 1 depending on if we sign MJ or not. the 2,3,4 are our best and our deepest positions. well maybe the 2 isnt that deep, but MoPete is a very very good option there...


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

*Re: The "I want to win sooner" offseason*



adhir1 said:


> this is where i get confused..people want to sign Peja, want to draft Rudy Gay, where do they expect to play them? *I mean Charlie has the 3 spot held down and he did very well for himself, do u consider him to be a 6th man off the bench?* I sure dont, he is a legit starter in this league, so truly we only have 2 places where we have holes, the 5, and the 1 depending on if we sign MJ or not. the 2,3,4 are our best and our deepest positions. well maybe the 2 isnt that deep, but MoPete is a very very good option there...


I think Charlie's versatility would allow him to play 25-30 off the bench and gives us some solid scoring in the 2nd unit. I wouldn't want to put him behind a rookie, but if we had a solid vet, former allstar, I wouldn't mind moving CV to the bench for a few seasons.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: The "I want to win sooner" offseason*



Team Mao said:


> I think Charlie's versatility would allow him to play 25-30 off the bench and gives us some solid scoring in the 2nd unit. I wouldn't want to put him behind a rookie, but if we had a solid vet, former allstar, I wouldn't mind moving CV to the bench for a few seasons.


That would slow his development so much. Look at the progress hes made this season. Heck, Id rather have CV than Peja, and im a big fan of Peja. Id rather just have a 2 guard that can shoot the ball very effectively and keep CV at the 3. Am i missing something about Peja. Why would indy not resign him? If we do get him well be paying too much, and we dont even really need him.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

shookem said:


> Draft the BPA, hopefully that's Gay or Splitter.
> 
> Re-sign James to a two year deal with a player option third.
> 
> If you've resigned MJ, and Mil wants a Bonner/ MoP package for Mags do it.


 
How do you figure splitter is the BPA at pick 5?, hes projected to go like 16-20 on most draft sites and hes not even on NBAdraft.net.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

mo76 said:


> How do you figure splitter is the BPA at pick 5?, hes projected to go like 16-20 on most draft sites and hes not even on NBAdraft.net.


I use the information on the sites to form my own opinion, not use theirs.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

shookem said:


> Draft the BPA, hopefully that's Gay or Splitter.
> 
> Re-sign James to a two year deal with a player option third.
> 
> If you've resigned MJ, and Mil wants a Bonner/ MoP package for Mags do it.


If we come away with either one, I will be very surpised.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

blowuptheraptors said:


> If we come away with either one, I will be very surpised.


So you thing Gay and Splitter will go top 5? Or you would just be surprised if the raptors took them?

Oh and to shookem;
Is Splitter's NBA position C??


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

mo76 said:


> So you thing Gay and Splitter will go top 5? Or you would just be surprised if the raptors took them?
> 
> Oh and to shookem;
> Is Splitter's NBA position C??


He's said he's a pure power forward but he's definitely a 4/5. Could use some added muscle though.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

mo76 said:


> So you thing Gay and Splitter will go top 5? Or you would just be surprised if the raptors took them?
> 
> Oh and to shookem;
> Is Splitter's NBA position C??



He's as much of a center as Williams, Noah, Thomas and Alridge are, but I really think the experience of playing against top-tier competition from an early age makes him more attractive _at this point_ than the others.


----------



## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

*Re: The "I want to win sooner" offseason*



mo76 said:


> That would slow his development so much. Look at the progress hes made this season. Heck, Id rather have CV than Peja, and im a big fan of Peja. Id rather just have a 2 guard that can shoot the ball very effectively and keep CV at the 3. Am i missing something about Peja. Why would indy not resign him? If we do get him well be paying too much, and we dont even really need him.


I'm not sure how it would slow his development. He would still get big minutes, and he will actually be more of our go to guy when he comes off the bench. In the starting lineup he's 2nd or 3rd option (4th if James comes back), but in a bigtime bench role, he would be 1st or 2nd. I don't think it would hurt his development at all really. Lots of really good players have bench roles in the league.

In terms of a 2 who can shoot the ball effectively, MoPete is shooting 39% from 3 this year and is one of the most underrated players in the league, especially on defence. I'd be very hesistant to bring in another 2 unless he's leaps and bounds better as a 2 way player, and few (reasonably priced) SGs are.

If he's opting out of his contract, he will be a UFA (I think). The huge Serbian population here could be a big draw for him and of course money is a big draw for everyone, C.R.E.A.M.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: The "I want to win sooner" offseason*



Team Mao said:


> I'm not sure how it would slow his development. He would still get big minutes, and he will actually be more of our go to guy when he comes off the bench. In the starting lineup he's 2nd or 3rd option (4th if James comes back), but in a bigtime bench role, he would be 1st or 2nd. I don't think it would hurt his development at all really. Lots of really good players have bench roles in the league.


I disagree. Charlie has earned the starters role this season and deserves a shot at it next year. Anything less could kill his confindence.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

*Re: The "I want to win sooner" offseason*



shookem said:


> I disagree. Charlie has earned the starters role this season and deserves a shot at it next year. Anything less could kill his confindence.


I thought Charlie was a 'character guy'. To put team first and come off the bench for your 25-30mpg rather than start for those minutes would be doing a great thing for the team and putting the team first. With his versatility of playing the 3/4 he would be an ideal bench player and really allow us to play a short bench like a lot of top teams in the league do.
I would be really disappointed in Charlie if he got bent out of shape from a move to the bench. This guy seems to have a strong character.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: The "I want to win sooner" offseason*



Team Mao said:


> I thought Charlie was a 'character guy'. To put team first and come off the bench for your 25-30mpg rather than start for those minutes would be doing a great thing for the team and putting the team first. With his versatility of playing the 3/4 he would be an ideal bench player and really allow us to play a short bench like a lot of top teams in the league do.
> I would be really disappointed in Charlie if he got bent out of shape from a move to the bench. This guy seems to have a strong character.


Man, hes a rookie and he dropped 50 in a game. You said lots of great players come off the bench. LIKE WHO????? Theres a big difference to coming of the bench at the end of your career and being put on the bench as a sophmore whos earned a starters role. It would make sense for him to come of the bench because of his versatility, but it would be terrible for his confidence. He doesnt want to come off the bench. His character has nothing to do with it. To me it would be like a slap in the face to him. Even if he said all the right things and continued to work hard, he would still be hurt. Anyone would. Players get to the NBA by having pride and wanting to be the best.


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: The "I want to win sooner" offseason*



mo76 said:


> Man, hes a rookie and he dropped 50 in a game. You said lots of great players come off the bench. LIKE WHO????? Theres a big difference to coming of the bench at the end of your career and being put on the bench as a sophmore whos earned a starters role. It would make sense for him to come of the bench because of his versatility, but it would be terrible for his confidence. He doesnt want to come off the bench. His character has nothing to do with it. To me it would be like a slap in the face to him. Even if he said all the right things and continued to work hard, he would still be hurt. Anyone would. Players get to the NBA by having pride and wanting to be the best.


Exactly. We aren't the celtics of the 80's and Charlie ain't McHale.


> I would be really disappointed in Charlie if he got bent out of shape from a move to the bench.


I'm sure Charlie would be really disappointed if he was asked to be a bench player next year, after being indentified as one of the league's rising stars. At least we wouldn't have to worry about re-signing him the year after, because he'd leave to find his rightfull starting position with another team.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

*Re: The "I want to win sooner" offseason*



mo76 said:


> He doesnt want to come off the bench. His character has nothing to do with it. To me it would be like a slap in the face to him. Even if he said all the right things and continued to work hard, he would still be hurt. Anyone would. Players get to the NBA by having pride and wanting to be the best.


And here I thought that players in the NBA wanted to win. Guess they're all just playing for the name on the back of the jersey.

Okay, maybe I overstated by using the word great to describe players who come off the bench. Lots of 'good' players come off the bench, look at the candidates for sixth man this year, lots of former allstars and a former rookie of the year. And I would only expect Charlie to spend 3 seasons coming off the bench logging close to 30 mpg (damn close to starter's minutes). I could see a guy getting upset if he's a veteran starter in the league, but come on Charlie has started all of 36 games and has never struck me as an arrogant jacka**.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: The "I want to win sooner" offseason*



Team Mao said:


> And here I thought that players in the NBA wanted to win. Guess they're all just playing for the name on the back of the jersey.
> 
> Okay, maybe I overstated by using the word great to describe players who come off the bench. Lots of 'good' players come off the bench, look at the candidates for sixth man this year, lots of former allstars and a former rookie of the year. And I would only expect Charlie to spend 3 seasons coming off the bench logging close to 30 mpg (damn close to starter's minutes). I could see a guy getting upset if he's a veteran starter in the league, but come on Charlie has started all of 36 games and has never struck me as an arrogant jacka**.


Man, your not going to convince me that charlie V isnt a starter. Its not the minutes, its the fact that he comes off the bench that would hurt his confidence. As shookem said, were not the 80's celtics and charlie V wouldn't resign if we made him come off the bench. Hell, if i was him i wouldn't. He deserves a STARTER's role. All of this is irrelevant anyway cause theres no way Peja is coming here. BC doesnt want to give Peja an inflated contract and Peja would probably rather play in Indy or somewhere that has a shot at winning.

Anyways, BC said the raps need more toughness, interior D and rebounding, didnt he? I think charlie brings more of that than Peja.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

*Re: The "I want to win sooner" offseason*



mo76 said:


> Man, your not going to convince me that charlie V isnt a starter. Its not the minutes, its the fact that he comes off the bench that would hurt his confidence. As shookem said, were not the 80's celtics and charlie V wouldn't resign if we made him come off the bench. Hell, if i was him i wouldn't. He deserves a STARTER's role. All of this is irrelevant anyway cause theres no way Peja is coming here. BC doesnt want to give Peja an inflated contract and Peja would probably rather play in Indy or somewhere that has a shot at winning.
> 
> Anyways, BC said the raps need more toughness, interior D and rebounding, didnt he? I think charlie brings more of that than Peja.


2006/2007 Depth Chart and MPG

PG- Calderon (25-30), Ukic (15-20), Barrett?
SG- Peterson (30-35), Smith(10-15),Ukic/Jones
SF- *Villanueva(15-20)*, Stojakovic (30), Jones
PF- Bosh (35), Villanueva (10-15), Armstrong/Slokar
C- *Magloire (30)*, Armstrong(15) Sow/Slokar
Very capable of taking the Atlantic next year.

Problem solved, not coming off the bench anymore. By the way, thanks for the indepth analysis of Charlie's inner workings, you guys must be really tight.
Indiana, win? Are you sure that you wrote that sentence correctly or is it a typo? 
Oh, about the interior D and rebounding. Look at the first trade I made to aquire that. And the guy I would want to pick after trading down (Big East Defensive Player of the Year). 

What exactly would you do Mo?


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

Everybody on the Raptor forum would make wonderful General Managers with all their wheeling and dealing .... but nobody seems to acknowledge that Brian Colangelo is the President & GM ... and he will build the Raptors as he see's fit.

So given that BC will be looking at the current Raptors team through the eyes of somebody who built up the Phoenix Suns, who wants to second guess what he thinks of each of the Raptors and what kind of team he intends to build for Toronto??

I have this feeling that US players do not see Toronto as the place to build their NBA careers.

I also read somewhere that BC thought that international players find it comfortable playing and living in Toronto .... and if true should we expect a more international players as Raptors??


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2005)

Pryzbilla reminds me of Chris Dudley. I wouldn't pay him that much money but signing a true center who can rebound and block makes a lot of sense and something I have been touting on this board for quite some time. Opposing players get into our lane too much. Look at Gordon yesterday. We have no defensive presence in the paint at all. Plus, Pryzbilla doesn't need touches in the paint to be happy so his game doesn't take away from Bosh. Magloire would be good too plus he is Canadian and this is his hometown.

Roy is a good player with minimal potential but how is he really that different from Mo Pete who is a superior shooter and a proven NBA defender? I would be pissed if we drafted Roy. Is he really a better starter than Mo Pete? If you move him to SF what happens to Charlie V? Are we going to move Bosh back to center? 

I can see why we would select Gay though (his potential) even though Gay doesn't really address our needs. If BC decides to draft by potential I don't see how you can pass him up but then there will be the issue of who will start at SF Charlie V or Gay? Gay doesn't look like a SG at all. Maybe we can have Charlie V coming off the bench as our sixth man aka Danny Manning for the Suns years ago once Gay develops. 

If BC decides to keep the pick unless if Aldridge falls or if Gay is available he should trade it either for a proven vet or in a package for a later pick. If we pick Aldridge there might also be a conflict of who should get the most touches in the paint him or Bosh especially once Aldridge develops. A young guy like Bosh won't sacrifice his touches like an old Admiral did for Duncan. So IMO if we pick Aldridge he will probably just become a 12-10-2 guy for us in 2-3 years which then brings another question will he resign with the Raps if he is not satisfied with the # of touches he wants to get?

The two things we need the most IMO is a defensive presence in the paint and PG who actually plays like a PG. We already have three scorers (Bosh, Charlie V, and Mo Pete), athleticism, and we can use some of our $$$ to improve our bench. I also think we need to rehaul our coaching staff. 

This will be an interesting summer but at least we got a proven guy running it this time which gives us more hope and some level of confidence. BC has a great talent for spotting role players who could come in and complement star players. Look at Diaw and Bell. He managed to get guys who don't take away from the team's star players.




narrator said:


> If I was GM, I would:
> 
> 1. Sign Pryzbilla to a 4 (maybe 5) year deal at about $6-7 million per year. Bring out Mitchell and Bosh to wine and dine him, a la Burnett and the Jays. He wants to win and he wants effort. The Raptors have the latter and are looking for the former.


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

I don't think Peja brings any thing to the table that we need. Scoring is not our problem.

Przybilla does have the skill set we need. Having said that, the guy can't stay healthy. Do you really want to break the bank on an injury-prone player? He's not coming at a discount, either.

Ridnour, if available, is interesting. He's the kind of floor general BC likes. Ridnour flat out sucks on D, but Steve Nash can't defend either right? I'd prefer T.J. Ford, but the Bucks won't trade him for anything short of Villanueva and I'd rather not.


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## frank_white (Apr 20, 2005)

Personally, one of the things I want to do is package our 1st & 2nd picks to trade up and draft Aldridge. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Aldridge is a superstar by any means. But he is PERFECT for our team. While not a true center he's definately a capable one. Moreover, I could see Bosh really mentoring & pushing him, and maximizing Lamarcus' (vast) potential. He's really the only player I want out of this years draft.


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## frank_white (Apr 20, 2005)

icehawk said:


> Ridnour, if available, is interesting. He's the kind of floor general BC likes. Ridnour flat out sucks on D, but Steve Nash can't defend either right? I'd prefer T.J. Ford, but the Bucks won't trade him for anything short of Villanueva and I'd rather not.


I'm not big on Ridnour, mainly because of his D. In addition, I don't think he's very durable, and I think these Nash comparisons are waaaaaaaay overly generous. 

I prefer Duhon or Jarret Jack, personally, both of whom should come at a reasonable price.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by MonsterBosh!
> 
> I have this feeling that US players do not see Toronto as the place to build their NBA careers.


maybe some US players feel that way, but you can't say *all* US players are of that opinion

if Toronto becomes a winning team in the next couple years, just watch the amount of players that will all of a sudden warm on the idea of playing for the Raptors

*Re: (Official?) What would you do this offseason?*

-the PG and Center positions are clearly our biggest needs, and have been discussed at length, but I think an upgrade at the 2guard might make an even bigger difference....

-Mo has had the best year of his career, and as much as I like what he did this year, you've got to consider what a package of Mo/top 5 pick could get ya.

-BC, I figure will try and intice teams to take Alvin or E.Will in a deal (expiring contracts), and hopefully if we pair them with another asset could get a decent player in return


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: The "I want to win sooner" offseason*



Team Mao said:


> 2006/2007 Depth Chart and MPG
> 
> PG- Calderon (25-30), Ukic (15-20), Barrett?
> SG- Peterson (30-35), Smith(10-15),Ukic/Jones
> ...


I said he would stay with Indiana OR go to a winning team. Im pretty sure i typed it correctly, since he will probably resign with the Pacers. I know he wouldnt come to the Raptors to come off the bench, that for sure. 

Anyways, i dont know what id do. No PGs in this draft strike me as that great. 
I know this is highly unlikely but, trade MoPete, Mike James and #5 pick for allan iverson and phillies first rounder. Philly is looking to rebuild and everyone is running AI out of town in Philly. Then we could get a good 2 guard like quentel woods in FA or next year in the draft. Then i say we trade our 2nd rounder and phillies pick to move up to 10-15 in the draft and take patrick o'bryant or hilton armstrong. AI could play the point in TO for the rest of his carreer. Maybe even win a championship. 

AI 
Qyntel Woods
CV
Bosh
Patrick O'Bryant?? Hilton Armstrong??


If O'bryant or armstrong turn out , thats a real nice team.


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## anniebananerz (Jan 8, 2006)

*Re: The "I want to win sooner" offseason*



mo76 said:


> I said he would stay with Indiana OR go to a winning team. Im pretty sure i typed it correctly, since he will probably resign with the Pacers. I know he wouldnt come to the Raptors to come off the bench, that for sure.
> 
> Anyways, i dont know what id do. No PGs in this draft strike me as that great.
> I know this is highly unlikely but, trade MoPete, Mike James and #5 pick for allan iverson and phillies first rounder. Philly is looking to rebuild and everyone is running AI out of town in Philly. Then we could get a good 2 guard like quentel woods in FA or next year in the draft. Then i say we trade our 2nd rounder and phillies pick to move up to 10-15 in the draft and take patrick o'bryant or hilton armstrong. AI could play the point in TO for the rest of his carreer. Maybe even win a championship.
> ...


 The Answer, Bosh, and CV? Who's going to be getting the shots? As classy as he is, I don't think Bosh would really enjoy that.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: The "I want to win sooner" offseason*

AI finished the season on a very sour note. Even if we had the pieces to trade for him I'm not convinced he is the kind of player we would pursue, especially at this point in his career/contract.


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

Iverson will never come to Toronto. He wants to win and win now. (That and not even Billy King would deal Iverson for Mike James and Mo Peterson.) Moreover, Qyntel Woods is Darius Miles-lite: that is, he's borderline insane and not worth having on your team.

Reality dictates the Raptors must set their sights a little lower than Iverson.


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

Gilgamesh said:


> Pryzbilla reminds me of Chris Dudley. I wouldn't pay him that much money but signing a true center who can rebound and block makes a lot of sense and something I have been touting on this board for quite some time. Opposing players get into our lane too much. Look at Gordon yesterday. We have no defensive presence in the paint at all. Plus, Pryzbilla doesn't need touches in the paint to be happy so his game doesn't take away from Bosh. Magloire would be good too plus he is Canadian and this is his hometown.


Magloire will never come to Toronto because he's a mercenary. He's never answered the call for the national team (not once!) so clearly he's in it for the money (not that, say, Steve Nash, isn't but at least he played for the national team). In any event, I don't see much difference between Pryzbilla and Magloire: they're the same, except Magloire will want way, way more money.


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

cv3bandwagon said:


> Is Marcus Williams that much better then Calderon? Better then Roko? I dont think so, we need a guy to run the team now and to the future and that's Luke Ridnour.


Yes, he is better. He knows where the defensive end of the floor is. Ridnour doesn't. Williams and Calderon would make a good tandem until one becomes dominant and the other is dealt to fill a need.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

narrator said:


> Iverson will never come to Toronto. He wants to win and win now. (That and not even Billy King would deal Iverson for Mike James and Mo Peterson.) Moreover, Qyntel Woods is Darius Miles-lite: that is, he's borderline insane and not worth having on your team.
> 
> Reality dictates the Raptors must set their sights a little lower than Iverson.


Maybe the iverson thing is a little unrealistic, im just trying to come up with some ideas. Lots of teams have 3 offensive options and AIs PG skills are still improving to this day. I disagree that Qyntel Woods is Dmiles lite. He had his problems in portland but i think hes getting more focused now. He has good fundamentals and this was his best year. I think the raptors should pursue him in FA at least.


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

If the raptors do not sign Mike James (which i think is unlikely) they should take a run at speedy claxton. they should definitely try and sign przybilla also. If they cannot get claxton i think they should try and get sebastian telfair from portland because they have an overload of PGs. I dont know how that trade would work out though, might involve another team.. in the draft i think raptors should take trade down to take roy,williams, or randy foye. In the second round take denham brown for some t-dot flavour


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

chocolove said:


> If the raptors do not sign Mike James (which i think is unlikely) they should take a run at speedy claxton. they should definitely try and sign przybilla also. If they cannot get claxton i think they should try and get sebastian telfair from portland because they have an overload of PGs. I dont know how that trade would work out though, might involve another team.. in the draft i think raptors should take trade down to take roy,williams, or randy foye. In the second round take denham brown for some t-dot flavour


What do you guys think about jarrett jack from portland? Im not that farmiliar with his play in the NBA, but hes a former teamate of chris bosh. His profile on NBA draft.net says hes a natural floor general.


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## aizn (Jun 19, 2005)

mo76 said:


> What do you guys think about jarrett jack from portland? Im not that farmiliar with his play in the NBA, but hes a former teamate of chris bosh. His profile on NBA draft.net says hes a natural floor general.


i wanted him in the last draft. actually, i wanted jameer nelson instead of hoffa, but wat can u do? jameer nelson is another player who came out of college being drafted extremely late for his successes. even though he lacked height, u couldn't deny his ability to score, ala gilbert arenas.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Yep. For all the talk about Iggy on this board I have always said that if we didn't take Hoffa the choice would have been Jameer Nelson OR taking another of the available bigs Swift, Jefferson, Biedrins.

Those were our needs and the overall talent level looked pretty even.

Who knows, if we took Nelson it would probably mean no Rafer contract and we might have signed Pryz as a FA instead of Portland. Everything would have been different for Babs.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

narrator said:


> Iverson will never come to Toronto. He wants to win and win now. (*That and not even Billy King would deal Iverson for Mike James and Mo Peterson.*) Moreover, Qyntel Woods is Darius Miles-lite: that is, he's borderline insane and not worth having on your team.
> 
> Reality dictates the Raptors must set their sights a little lower than Iverson.



I can think of one former GM who would make this trade. :biggrin:

What if we trade mike james for a mid to late first rounder? 

Then 

Raptors trade
MoPete
Joey Graham
1st round pick (likely top 5)

Sixers trade
Allan Iverson


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

mo76 said:


> I can think of one former GM who would make this trade. :biggrin:
> 
> What if we trade mike james for a mid to late first rounder?
> 
> ...


I'd want Iverson on this team about as much as I want to get hit in the head with a concrete dildo. Why would a team with youth who will peak in a few years want a old 'me-first' PG who still hasn't grown out of his 'I'm a thug' phase. Oh, and $60 million over 3 years, that would be like covering the concrete dildo with glass spikes.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

Team Mao said:


> I'd want Iverson on this team about as much as I want to get hit in the head with a concrete dildo. Why would a team with youth who will peak in a few years want a old 'me-first' PG who still hasn't grown out of his 'I'm a thug' phase. Oh, and $60 million over 3 years, that would be like covering the concrete dildo with glass spikes.


Id rather pay big money for iverson than peja. doesnt matter cause neither will happen. Whats the big deal with brining AI in for what i proposed? We doent loose that much, and i think we would have a shot at a championship in 3 years with Iverson running the point. I think he has grown out the im a thug thing. 

I dont understand. People say we have enough rookies and we need some veterans. When i think of seasoned vets i think AI.


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

Team Mao said:


> I'd want Iverson on this team about as much as I want to get hit in the head with a concrete dildo.


Where do you come up with this stuff?

Anyways, AI on the Raps is a quick fix that won't push us past the first round. Look how frustrated Webber is with Iverson.. I definately don't want that being Bosh.


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## cv3bandwagon (Mar 16, 2006)

Who's the star on this team? Duh, Chris Bosh. What do you to your stars? Surround them with complimentary talent who plays well with him not surround him with random talent like AI. That's why Philly is such a mess, they can't put together a team with any sort of chemistry or complimentary talents.

What we have is a star at the four, with a good mid-range game and ability to get to the basket. What dose he need to surround him?
-A secound sub-star who will accept his role as the secound scoring option on offense and hit his shots within the flow of the offense rather then needing iso's and what not taking touches away form Bosh. This will cut down on the doubles on Bosh and take the whoel offensive load off his back, to me Charlie Villanueva is this secound star who acepts this role.

-A point guard who can break down the defense going to the basket and then kick it out to Bosh for open jumpers. Not only that they must be able to make smart decisions especially in crunch time and distribute the ball and make plays and easy shots for everybody. Still he will require to be able to create his own offense if need be but his distribution skills are first and foremost, a solid three point shot is just bonus. Some guys I think can do this and accept his role are Luke Ridnour, Jamal Tinsley, and Speddy Claxton.

-A center who can be a tough shot blocking/rebounding machine. Here you want a guy who can be an interior intimidator making our defense greatly improved not only in the initial interior defense on man but be the guy that allows everybody else play agressive d knowing they have a shot blocker behind them. Also the center must know and understand his role of just being the intimidator on defense and on offense be happy with his offensive put-backs and open dunks. Some guys I like for this role are Dan Gadzurich and Joel Prizybella.

-A swingmen/off-guard that can play lock down defense on the other teams best swingmen/offguard. Most other teams have their most effective offensive weapon and Bosh will need a guy who can shut that player down. A shooter will be nice here as well, making the defense stay out on him not just letting his defender just leave him to go double Bosh for fear of the kick and threy. Mo Pete can fill this bill but another guy int he draft who can help off the bench is Bobby Jones the Bruce Bowen clone.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

I'm don't know how well AI would work here, but c'mon it couldn't be too bad

*big name players that I would love to see in Toronto*
Paul Pierce
Ray Allen
Jason Richardson (Spartan reunion?)

-would a package of CV/MoPete/2006 1st rounder be enough to get an allstar? is it too much?

- if we did do a trade similar to the above, we would be giving up a lot of depth, but would have two all-star types to build arround and attract free-agents. IMO a core of Bosh/Pierce or Bosh/Allen would have free agents flocking

-even if we saved most of our cap space this year, the 2007 free agent crop is looking pretty strong and even if we were only able to sign Magloire, that would only leave us void of a true #1 PG. I have no plan for aquiring one, but if our lineup had....Magloire/Bosh/Allen, I'd wager that PG's across the league would be knocking our door down to have a chance at leading them, and maybe even sign at a discount to have that chance.

but that's just my 22 cents


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

TRON said:


> I'm don't know how well AI would work here, but c'mon it couldn't be too bad
> 
> *big name players that I would love to see in Toronto*
> Paul Pierce
> ...


I think we've seen that 2 superstars and crap else does not cut it. I would prefer to have a team of very good players than 2 amazing players and 8 scrubs.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by *blowuptheraptors !*
> 
> I think we've seen that 2 superstars and crap else does not cut it.


agreed, but Colangelo has proved that he knows how to surround all-star talent with the appropriate role players, ie/Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas, Diaw. 

If this was Babcock or GG, I wouldn't have much confidence in getting anything better than a Nate Hoffman or Bateer surrounding our stars, but Collangelo has shown he can create the appropriate balance for a team to be successful



> Originally posted by *blowuptheraptors !*
> 
> I would prefer to have a team of very good players than 2 amazing players and 8 scrubs.


I think Memphis is the best example of a well balanced team 1 through 10, but I don't see them as a title contender, just a very good team that should come up short in the Conference semi's.


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## cv3bandwagon (Mar 16, 2006)

well if you wan to go comparo, last I checked the pistons were well-balanced star lacking team and Phily and Golden State were teams with two big-time stars.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Seems like the secret with the Pistons isn't being good its just staying healthy and building team chemistry. It's ungodly how many games the starting five has been healthy for not counting DQ's.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by *cv3bandwagon !*
> 
> last I checked the pistons were well-balanced star lacking team


that may have been true, until this year when I thought I was watching Detroit Pistons game, but the announcers had to remind me that it was actually the all-star game!



> Originally posted by *cv3bandwagon !*
> 
> Phily and Golden State were teams with two big-time stars.


I assume your referring to Iverson/Webber in Philly and Richardson/Davis in GS?

not exactly the dynamic duo's I was thinking about, how about.....
Nash/Marion in Phoenix, O'neal/Artest formally in Indiana, Shaq/Wade in Miami, even Jamison/Arenas in Washington


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## SickGame (Jan 23, 2006)

There really is no answer to any of these questions. If you look at all the teams in the playoffs, they have quite different balances, players, offenses and defenses. Though there is one similarity in most of the cases (and that is of having a solid pass first PG), it is not always the case. It's simply a matter of finding what best fits the vision that both Mitchell and BC have for this team in the near future, either it be two superstar players on one team (doesn't always work, ex: Houston but did work in L.A. during their dynasty, and do remember they didn't really have a great PG) or a balanced no star studded team etc.. etc..
But that's just an annoying reply.


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

cv3bandwagon said:


> well if you wan to go comparo, last I checked the pistons were well-balanced star lacking team and Phily and Golden State were teams with two big-time stars.


What are you talking about?

The Pistons had 4 all-stars this year (Sheed, Ben, Billups, and Rip). 

Philly only had AI. Webber is not the player he used to be.

Oh yeah, GS had exactly no reps this year.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

icehawk said:


> What are you talking about?
> 
> The Pistons had 4 all-stars this year (Sheed, Ben, Billups, and Rip).
> 
> ...


The 4 Pistons all-stars were questionable selections which IMO were based more on the team's success than the players themselves. None of those players fit the traditional description of all-star or superstar. Put them on any other team and chances are they're not all-stars.


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

Okay, of all the superstars mentioned so far, only Ray Allen has even the remotest chance, in my opinion, of even agreeing to come to Toronto (he doesn't mind not being in a huge market and he seems to be the kind of guy who would dig TO as a city). I also think he would be a good fit with Bosh, which should be the primary concern with any acquisition.

Now, we need to get back to looking at who would come to Toronto and fit: Pryzbilla would be a good fit (I've outlined why elsewhere). A PG who passes first would be wonderful (I continue to believe, and will believe until I'm proven wrong, that Marcus Williams would be an outstanding fit here).

Colangelo also needs to build up a bench because if your primary subs contain any of Sow, Araujo, Bonner, Martin, etc. you cannot be taken seriously. Villanueva will make a great centrepiece to the second unit (who will also play in crunch time, of course) but beyond that, the Raptors need help.

I'm a firm believer in the total team. Every team can't have 2 superstars and 8 guys who are acceptable. So, the idea is to build a team that will execute on offense and defense. The Raptors are a long way from this but I'm looking for positive steps forward this summer at the very least.


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

Team Mao said:


> The 4 Pistons all-stars were questionable selections which IMO were based more on the team's success than the players themselves. None of those players fit the traditional description of all-star or superstar. Put them on any other team and chances are they're not all-stars.


Ben Wallace is the DPOY. Sheed is one of the best defensive PFs in the game. Just because he isn't putting up the 20 and 8 he was back in Portland (due to the star power in DET) doesn't mean he isn't a star. Put him on the Raptors and he'd be putting up 20/8. Billups is a MVP candidate, are you kidding me? Rip is putting up 20 a game, developed a 3 ball, and can play some D unlike most high-scoring twos.

Obviously if you have 4 stars, each one isn't going to be putting up 20-something points per game. Furthermore, these guys can play good D. Some people just have to stop looking at stats and start watching these guys play.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

TRON said:


> agreed, but Colangelo has proved that he knows how to surround all-star talent with the appropriate role players, ie/Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas, Diaw.
> 
> If this was Babcock or GG, I wouldn't have much confidence in getting anything better than a Nate Hoffman or Bateer surrounding our stars, but Collangelo has shown he can create the appropriate balance for a team to be successful
> 
> ...


I would perfer a tighter rotation than the Memphis model. All I mean is you can't go with 2 max guys and garbage. Its up to BC to create a PHX, DET or SA here. All those teams have big time contributors for manageable deals.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Manageable deals? Not so sure about that.

They pay top dollar to their big guns.

SAS: Duncan 16, Parker 8, Ginobli 7, Nesterovic 7, Bowen 3- only deal
Guys like Finley and Horry are special cases of vets playing cheap for Championship and already made money. They follow the rings.

PHX: Nash 10, Marion 14, Amare 12 on new deal, and they offered JJ the MAX before trading him, now sign Bell for 4.5, KT for 6.6, Diaw on rookie deal as is Barbosa. No steals there. Imagine if JJ stayed.

DET: Sheed 10, Rip 8, Ben 7 but soon to be 10, Chauncey 6, McD 6 but only that cheap because of injury concerns and to chase title. Prince just got a huge extension. They don't have much else.

That's pretty big money to starters and key reserves.


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## no_free_baskets (Jan 4, 2006)

lucky777s said:


> Manageable deals? Not so sure about that.
> 
> They pay top dollar to their big guns.
> 
> ...



i have to completely disagree...duncan is one of the few players that actually earns his max contract, so no problem with that at all...parker, ginobilli, and bowen are huge bargains...what is the mid-level exemption 5, 5.5 mil? given his value as one of the best young pgs in the game (and only getting better...), parker should easily be making more then 8 mil. (he did take less, to sign with san. ant.) ginobilli at 7 mil? so if mid-level exemption is used as the mean salary for the "avg" nba player, you think paying ginobilli a little over the mid-level is an expensive price? come on, lets get real here...3 mil. for a perennial def. player of the yr? theres no argument here at all..3 mil is chump change given to end of the rotation guys 8 through 10...thats another absolute steal...

......same with billups and hamilton...bascially mid level money to a mvp candidate and a marginalincrease over mid-level money for an all-star? this is bad value for the money? really??


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## no_free_baskets (Jan 4, 2006)

icehawk said:


> Ben Wallace is the DPOY. Sheed is one of the best defensive PFs in the game. Just because he isn't putting up the 20 and 8 he was back in Portland (due to the star power in DET) doesn't mean he isn't a star. Put him on the Raptors and he'd be putting up 20/8. Billups is a MVP candidate, are you kidding me? Rip is putting up 20 a game, developed a 3 ball, and can play some D unlike most high-scoring twos.
> 
> Obviously if you have 4 stars, each one isn't going to be putting up 20-something points per game. Furthermore, these guys can play good D. Some people just have to stop looking at stats and start watching these guys play.


agreed..nice post...


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

no_free_baskets said:


> i have to completely disagree...duncan is one of the few players that actually earns his max contract, so no problem with that at all...parker, ginobilli, and bowen are huge bargains...what is the mid-level exemption 5, 5.5 mil? given his value as one of the best young pgs in the game (and only getting better...), parker should easily be making more then 8 mil. (he did take less, to sign with san. ant.) ginobilli at 7 mil? so if mid-level exemption is used as the mean salary for the "avg" nba player, you think paying ginobilli a little over the mid-level is an expensive price? come on, lets get real here...3 mil. for a perennial def. player of the yr? theres no argument here at all..3 mil is chump change given to end of the rotation guys 8 through 10...thats another absolute steal...
> 
> ......same with billups and hamilton...bascially mid level money to a mvp candidate and a marginalincrease over mid-level money for an all-star? this is bad value for the money? really??



Geez, relax a little. I never questioned whether these guys were worth their money. Of course they are. But to say the GM's did some kind of awesome job getting these guys cheap is wrong. They paid market value. And most of these figures are STARTING points on multi-year deals.

Parker will be making 13.5 million in 2010/2011 (6yrs/72mill). Giobli 11 mill the year before that (5yrs/45mill). Duncan 22 mill that year. These were probably very close to MAX money extensions allowed under the CBA for those players. Is that 'cheap' ? No, but its the price you have to pay. Bowen is CHEAP, which is what i said in my first post, the only one who is. 

Hamilton 5yrs/50 mill
Sheed 4 yrs/48 mill
Prince 5yrs/50 mill
Billups and Dice have opt-outs after next year - cha ching $$$
Ben re-signs this summer $$$$$
None of that is cheap. Their top 5 or 6 guys will be making 10 mill on average. Maybe more. That will be 60 mill for 6 players.

PHX gave the max they could to get Nash, Marion, and Amare, and tried to give it to JoeJohnson. That's not genius management. Any boob could do that. Not getting JJ back allowed them to get Diaw's rookie deal plus sign Bell and JamesJones cheap. TimThomas fell into their lap cheap.

These GM's did not make genius moves. They paid up to keep quality players. Just as any other GM would do.

And when you have a championship contender that is easier as well. What good teams have that kind of cap room? Most teams only have the MLE to offer, and only the really bad teams have real cash to spend.


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## l2owen (Apr 24, 2006)

ok here are the things i would do:

resign mike james for 6-8 million depending on the market. 
draft one of Roy / Gay/AM to add depth to the wings.
Sign big man Pryz or Nazr, say no to Nene and players with repeated bouts of knee problems. 
Use remaining money to attempt to sign claxton , or work some sort of sign and trade with new orleans. claxton for any combo of hoffa, bonner, second rounders, eric williams , woods. our chances imrpove if we get that cap relief for alvin williams . 

with claxton , mj , and calderon we will have fantastic depth at the point guard position with mike james alternating between shooting guard and point guard, whenever we need him to step in to play pg if theres an injury or some other problem. either way having strong athletic depth at pg would be essential for a playoff run , especially since we know how easily players can get injured.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

New direction, no Mags
Trade pick+Hoffa+Bonner to NO for JR Smith, 2 Hornets Picks
Denver S&T Nene (start at 5 years, $40), send back JR Smith and Eric Willams (clears cap room)
Draft Shelden Williams (if available, Armstrong if not), and Marcus Williams (AZ, if you watched him last year this kid is going to be really good), Bobby Jones, Kosta Perovic (leave him in Europe)
Sign Roko
S&T Mike James to LA for Mihm, McKie(both expiring next year)

I really wasn't disappointed with our starters this year (outside of the centre position), but our bench was terrible, drafting two players who can be solid bench contributors along with a more experienced JG and Sow, along with bringing in Mihm and Mckie should give us a decent second unit.
Nene gives us a big guy who actually likes to score in the key, would be something new for our offence. Having JR Smith included in the deal allows us to offload Eric Williams to clear cap space to do the S&T with Mike James.

PG- Calderon, Ukic, McKie
SG-MoPete, M. Williams
SF-CV31, Graham
PF-Bosh, S. Williams, Sow
C-Nene, Mihm, S. Williams


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

lucky777s said:


> Manageable deals? Not so sure about that.
> 
> They pay top dollar to their big guns.
> 
> ...


Compared to who? Those players earn every cent. 7 for Ginobili for example. That is value. Compare those players to players on other teams that are overpaid, and over-rated. It is more rare to find players that play to or above their value rather than the reverse. Steve Francis anyone? [shudder].


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Compared to who? Those players earn every cent. 7 for Ginobili for example. That is value. Compare those players to players on other teams that are overpaid, and over-rated. It is more rare to find players that play to or above their value rather than the reverse. Steve Francis anyone? [shudder].


Not sure if you read my follow up post that looks at the entire deal those players signed. Sure the starting price looks OK, but look out a few years.

Ginobli, for example is 29 years old and showing signs of breaking down this year. He has never even played 30mpg in his career. Never played a full season. A 15-16ppg scorer with 2 TO per who looks great in the SAS system but might not be so impressive if expected to deliver more. He signed a 5yr/45mill deal. Probably the most he could have gotten in the market. IMO. And will the Spurs be happy paying him 11mill when he is 33. That is a big question. Its certainly not a cheap deal. It was market value.

Most of the big, overpaid, contracts were signed a long time ago and are running out. Things were different then. Tim Thomas, Austin Croshere, Jalen Rose, Allan Houston, Marbury, Mutombo, VanHorn, Spree, Finley, JuwanHoward, JonBender, EddieJones, Brian Grant, Webber, AD, Alvin, JYD, etc, etc, etc. Ridiculous times.

Just when you think things are getting more sane in the league you see that Mike Redd will be making 18 mill in 5 years. And those Golden State contracts leave you scratching your head. Ray Allen is almost 19 mill in his last season for SEA.

But overall things are better these days. Bosh's contract will be huge. Hopefully he can live up to it. Teams are forced to pay these max deals or lose the player. The yearly raises take the final 2 year values way too high.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

I don't know. Foyle's deal was retarded. JJ in NY was too. Juwan Howard signed one. Employee No. 8 got one. There is an opt out but he is not worth what he gets.

I don't mind a deal that grows as long as you get some real production along the way. All those guys mentioned before earned their piece and raises, including EG.


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

what you guys think of this...our 1st round projected 5th for NOH pick projected 12 and JR Smith and then switch the 12th pick into Shelden Williams...  i know butr will love it!


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## shookem (Nov 1, 2005)

kirk_2003 said:


> what you guys think of this...our 1st round projected 5th for NOH pick projected 12 and JR Smith and then switch the 12th pick into Shelden Williams...  i know butr will love it!


I think we'd have to send a player in return, maybe E-Dub? but I like the deal.


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

shookem said:


> I think we'd have to send a player in return, maybe E-Dub? but I like the deal.


wouldnt we be under the cap? but yeah.. edub works with me as well


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

shookem said:


> I think we'd have to send a player in return, maybe E-Dub? but I like the deal.


even if we had to, and i don't think we do, we could use the trade exception. not a bad idea really.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

This would be my dream scenario right now.

SIGN & TRADE Mike James, Morris Peterson, rights to Roko Ukic 
FOR
Corey Maggette, Shaun Livingston

Win lottery, Draft C Lamarcus Aldridge, F Shawne Williams

Sign Kendrick Perkins, Quinton Ross, Lindsey Hunter

2006/2007 Lineup

PG: Shaun Livingston, Jose Calderon, Lindsey Hunter
SG: Corey Maggette, Quinton Ross
SF: Charlie Villanueva, Joey Graham, Shawne Williams
PF: Chris Bosh, Pape Sow, Matt Bonner
C: LaMarcus Aldridge, Kendrick Perkins, Rafael Araujo


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

Team Mao said:


> New direction, no Mags
> Trade pick+Hoffa+Bonner to NO for JR Smith, 2 Hornets Picks
> Denver S&T Nene (start at 5 years, $40), send back JR Smith and Eric Willams (clears cap room)
> Draft Shelden Williams (if available, Armstrong if not), and Marcus Williams (AZ, if you watched him last year this kid is going to be really good), Bobby Jones, Kosta Perovic (leave him in Europe)
> ...


Perhaps I should explain more as to why I think that trading the picks is a good idea. Our holes are at centre and PG, two positions where we will get no immediate help at the 5th pick. We can fill the hole at centre through FA this offseason (pick your flavour Nene, Przy, Nazr and others), and I'm confident that Jose will look much better next season. Like I said before, our lack of any depth whatsoever killed us in a lot of games, so I think we should use this draft to pick up some quality players who can provide help off of the bench for us. Also, I think that NO would be very tempted to trade up to score a wingman like Gay, Roy or Morrison who could come in and play big minutes right away and really produce in a position where they have a need.

In terms of draft it seems that Marcus Williams has opted out of the draft and Shelden Williams likely won't be around at the 12th or 15th picks. So two players I really like to fill out our bench are Ronnie Brewer and Hilton Armstrong, two players that most mocks have available at the Hornets two picks. Brewer would be great off the bench behind Mo, he's got excellent defense, ballhandling and athleticism and many people were saying top 10 for him at the beginning of the season.

I'm really high on Armstrong, I know this is going to sound crazy but after watching him this year, I think that he could become a sort of Dwight Howard LITE, I am NOT saying he will be a player of similar caibre, but they do share a similar game style and size, just to reiterate, I said DH Lite. If you look at his profile from nbadraft.net, you can see some similarities:


> Strengths: *A legitimate 6'11 big man with a wingspan that allows him to play bigger … Big time shot blocker, especially in transition ... Athletic and strong, he can run the floor well and play above the rim ... Great hands, catches everything and rebounds well ... Very good rebounding technique ...* Good passer, has the ability to make the necessary pass from the low post …* Very good at put-backs and cleaning up the glass *... *Can throw down some thunderous dunks* ... *Has the quickness to leave the paint and alter shots* ... Has improved his free throw shooting substantially … Vastly improved offensive game ... Has developed a consistent intermediate (12 feet and in) jumpshot that he did not possess until his senior year ...
> 
> Weaknesses: *Not very polished on the offensive end*, partly due to the fact that he only averaged 10, 10 and 12 minutes per game his first three years ... *Although he has the size to play center in the NBA, he could add more weight and strength* ... Below average court awareness, gets caught making mistakes in defensive switch-offs … Plays inconsistent on the offensive end, his confidence seems to get shaken if he's not making his shots…. Plays timid at times, lacks the killer edge, consistency ... Good lateral quickness, but when he gets drawn out of the paint, he's susceptible to the pump fake which makes his leave his feet early and take some bad fouls ... Mental toughness has been a question for him in the past ...


Again, not at the same level, but similar type game, I think he could be a solid contributor backing up both the PF and C positions for this team. Letting us rest the starters without watching Matt Bonner, Hoffa or Sow just get abused by opposing centres and power forwards.

Everything from the above plan would remain the same other than the draft, leaving next year's team to look like this:
PG-Calderon, Ukic, McKie
SG- MoPete, Brewer, Graham
SF-Villanueva, Graham,
PF-Bosh, Armstrong, Sow
C- Nene, Armstrong, Sow

With a shorter bench, hopefully we could have some more consistent and comprehensible substitution patterns allowing the bench guys to develop into a strong second unit.


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

vigilante said:


> This would be my dream scenario right now.
> 
> SIGN & TRADE Mike James, Morris Peterson, rights to Roko Ukic
> FOR
> Corey Maggette, Shaun Livingston


The Clips would never do that. Cassell is near the end and they'd rather keep their young stud.

Livingston is a guy I would like to see on the Raps, though.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

icehawk said:


> The Clips would never do that. Cassell is near the end and they'd rather keep their young stud.
> 
> Livingston is a guy I would like to see on the Raps, though.


Well thats why they get Mike James..

But your probably right, the Clips wouldn't do that..

You never know though, because again, they get James and a nice PG prospect..


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

*Trade 1*
TO TOR: C Jamaal Magloire, G TJ Ford
TO MIL: F Charlie Villanueva, GF Joey Graham, C Rafael Araujo, F Eric Williams, TOR 2nd 2006
_Why for Toronto?_
Position-wise, Raptors lack a point guard and center. Skill-wise, the Raptors need a playmaker along with rebounding and toughness. Ford and Magloire, respectively, fill those needs. The Raptors take a big riskdue to Magloire's contract situation (though he should be more flexible if moved to Toronto) and Ford's chronic back problems. Toronto can replace Villanueva with their first rounder (Rudy Gay or Andrea Bargnani).
_Why for Milwaukee?_
They need to move Magloire before the off-season because they won't be able to offer him the contract he wants. They are also stacked at the 5 and 1 spot. They need a starting PF to play with Bogut. They also need more depth on the wings. Villanueva and Graham fill these needs. Araujo and Williams are just filler to make the salaries match and they will expire after next season. They also get the 35th pick in a draft where they have no picks at all for further incentive. 
Andrew Bogut / Dan Gadzuric 
Charlie Villanueva / Joe Smith
Bobby Simmons / Joey Graham
Michael Redd / 35th Pick
Maurice Williams / Charlie Bell

*Trade 2*
TO TOR: G Marcus Banks (sign-and-trade)
TO MIN: G Jose Calderon, MIA 2nd 2006
_Why for Toronto?_
Ford and Calderon have a very similar skill set. Banks is an aggressive defender and should contrast Ford quite well. Toronto can also afford to take a bit more salary due to their cap situation. Possibly Toronto's version of Barbosa.
_Why for Milwaukee?_
Maybe they don't want to lock Banks up for the five-year deal he wants. Maybe they want a pure point guard coming off the bench. Maybe they want a cheaper option, who knows? The pick is just a little extra incentive.

*Trade 3*
TO TOR: Quinton Ross, Zeljko Rebraca
TO LAC: Mike James (sign-and-trade)
_Why for Toronto?_
After the Milwaukee trade, depth will be need on the wings. Ross is a good defender with a bargain contract. Rebraca is just filler but could be our back-up or third center.
_Why for the Clippers?_
This deal only happens if Cassell doesn't re-sign with them. New rumours are hinting that he wants to go to Denver. There's obviously no deal if Cassell stays. Livingston isn't ready to start yet and Mike James is a suitable replacement. If Cassell doesn't sign, they will be able to take more salary back. Neither loss of Ross nor Rebraca will hurt their team.

*Draft*
TOR drafts F Rudy Gay (5th overall).
_Why for Toronto?_
Gay is a complete wing with no apparent flaws. Many question his motivation but his potential is sky-high. Bargnani will most likely be gone by then and Roy looks like a career role player.

*Free Agency*
TOR signs GF Bonzi Wells.
_Why for Toronto?_
Bonzi is a very good all-around player. He provides defense and rebounding on the wings. He does have his problems but should be a good gamble a la Rasheed Wallace in Detroit.

*2006-2007 ROSTER*
C Jamaal Magloire / Zeljko Rebraca / Pape Sow
F Chris Bosh / Matt Bonner
F Morris Peterson / Rudy Gay
G Bonzi Wells / Quinton Ross
G TJ Ford / Marcus Banks / Andre Barrett


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

^ Nice..


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

vigilante said:


> This would be my dream scenario right now.
> 
> *SIGN & TRADE Mike James, **Morris Peterson**, rights to Roko Ukic *
> *FOR*
> ...


 
Why would the clippers do that? The clippers are not going to trade shaun livingston, just like the bulls wont trade hienrich. Its never going to happen?

What would the point of the trade be. Roko and Livingston are similar players while one is unproven. MoPete and Maggette are similar players.The clippers could just sign mike james, but they never would because they have mobley and cassell. So whats the point. You like Shaun Livingston?:uhoh: LOL


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## Rhubarb (Mar 19, 2005)

Ah, it's that time of year again. Optimism, often stretching to borderline ridiculous, but nevertheless smacking of hope. Gotta love it.

As for the Clips deal, if we could land S-Livizzle without giving up Chris or Charlie, I'd weep tears of joy. A pity then, that such a deal falls into the 'borderline ridiculous' category.

You really must admire the type of mood an off-season generates.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

Let's play the who's that PG? game.

PG#1
MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
25.0 .427 .125 .688 .7 2.3 3.0 4.5 .75 .52 1.82 2.60 5.8

PG #2
23.2 .423 .163 .848 .5 1.7 2.2 4.5 .66 .06 1.58 1.50 5.5

Why is everyone so high on Livingston? The guy is injury prone and hasn't managed to stay healthy at all. If someone is always injured early in their career, chances are good that they're not going to have a long healthy career. Let the Clippers keep him and keep signing vet guards to play in front of him because he's really not all that good.

Oh, and you'll have to figure out who the other point guard is, but here's a hint, lot's of people aren't really impressed with him.

I do however agree that the Clippers aren't going to trade the guy, especially for the package suggested by Vigilante. But as far as I'm concerned, right now, the guy has done nothing and seems to be a constant injury risk, they can keep him.


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

Team Mao said:


> Let's play the who's that PG? game.
> 
> PG#1
> MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
> ...


Stats, stats, stats... we can play the same game with Mike Bibby, Tony Parker, and Mike James but that doesn't mean James is on the same level as them. Rhubarb stated that we would have to move Chris or Charlie to acquire Livingston, and I would have to agree. Value-wise he's worth the 5th overall pick (especially in this top four heavy draft) but with the Clippers point guard situation and the lack of quality point guards in the draft, I can't see them trading him for that pick.

Livingston is a gamble and has been somewhat of a disappointment in the NBA, but the guy oozes of potential. He's only 20, give him time. The court vision, handles, and passing ability he possesses at his height is rare. He's also very versatile and can legitimately play positions 1 to 3. Give him some time but after he improves his shot and bulks up 15 pounds, watch out.


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## Rhubarb (Mar 19, 2005)

Mao, whilst I do agree over the concern of Livingston's long-term health (though to borrow a line from Bill Simmons, the boy does play for the Clippers..), you can't deny the potential he's shown (albeit in patches).

Body issues aside, the kid's 19 (or is it 20 now?). One of a few young point guards I'd bend over for.


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

Livingston is going to be fabulous. He's also going to be a Clipper for a long time unless the alien inhabiting Elgin Baylor's body leaves and the old, stupid Baylor returns.

Oh, and I'm just going to say this one more time: T.J. Ford is NOT going anywhere. EVER.

I must agree with the gentleman who posted about optimism: it is indeed infectious but when thinking about off-season moves, one must also think about reality.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

narrator said:


> *Livingston is going to be fabulous.* He's also going to be a Clipper for a long time unless the alien inhabiting Elgin Baylor's body leaves and the old, stupid Baylor returns.


What have you seen that would lead you to say that he's going to be fabulous with such certainty? Serious question, because I'd like to know. I never had a chance to watch him play in high school and in the two seasons he's been in the league, he's been injured or not playing any minutes. 

It's not that I think he's going to be horrible. But the trades I see proposed on the internet to try to pry the kid away from the Clippers. So many people seem to be willing to give up valuable pieces for a guy who is a HUGE injury risk and really has yet to show much in the bigs. 

Yes, he has lots of potential. Yes, he's very tall for a PG. At this point in his career, it would be a crazy risk for any team to gve up the pieces that the Clippers would ask for; a HUGE gamble. If he becomes a fabulous player, great. But right now, all he's got is potential to be great which a whole lot of players in the league have.


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

Fabulous might be an overstatement but if the only knock you have on him is that he's been unlucky with injuries his first 2 years, then that's not a lot (personally, I tend to blame the bad karma of the Clippers until this year... and having Cassell teach him to win isn't a bad thing).

The thing is that I don't care about his height. I care about his vision. I care about him being able to make the right pass at the right time. And he does this. And he does, to the best of my knowledge, play defense. Once he has a jump shot, he'll be the ideal PG.

There are no certainties (aside from LeBron James) in sports (seriously, who saw Kobe Bryant becoming a good teammate coming???). I can say that I _believe_ he will be fabulous, unless his career gets derailed by injuries. Which would be a shame. So that's how I can say it.


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## cv3bandwagon (Mar 16, 2006)

A player that I would really enjoy seeing in a raptors uniform next season would be Sam Cassel, a great teacher and vetran who knows how to win and close out games. He does a lot of the little things it takes for teams to win and bringing in a guy like him might just what we need to get us started on the rise to up the rankings. Still that seems kind of unrealistic to happen.

My new off-season idea:

To New Jersey:
Matt Bonner
Pape Sow
35th pick

To Toronto:
Cliff Robinson
21st pick

To Charlotte:
Alexander Pavlovic
Luke Jackson
Rafael Araju
two future toronto secound round draft picks

To Cleveland:
Mike James (S&T)

To Toronto:
Brevin Knight
Ira Newble


Draft:
5th pick: Brandon Roy
21st Pick: Josh Boone
56th pick: Darius Washington (according to nbadraft.net he might actually slip that far)

Sign:
Chris Wilcox (overpay to pry him from Seatle) -(Joel Pryzibella is the secound option)
Scott Pollard
Uros Slokar

Chris Wilcox-Josh Boone-Scott Pollard
Chris Bosh-Cliff Robinson-Uros Slokar
Charlie Villanueva-Joey Graham-Eric Williams
Morris Peterson-Brandon Roy-Ira Newble
Brevin Knight-Jose Calderon-Darius Washington

That is a much more better defensive team that is more then capable of playing up tempo ball like BC wants to do.


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## Team Mao (Dec 17, 2005)

Some people have said that they are not comfortable with Charlie being a full time SF and feel he is a PF playing out of position.
In Chicago, Nocioni has been playing out of his mind since the all star break and seems to be the SF of the future in Chicago. 
Would you guys consider this trade with the Bulls?

Bulls Get: Villanueva, 5th pick
Raptors Get, Deng, Duhon, 16th

IMO, value wise, Villanueva=Deng and 5th=Duhon+mid 1st

We get more of a natural SF, who can play spot minutes at the 4 when needed. Plus we get a PG who seems to love playing in the ACC. With the 16th we can get a backup C/PF like Armstrong or Simmons.

This trade would need to wait until August as Duhon signed an offer sheet with the Raps last year, the teams could simply pick based on the others instructions and make the swap later.


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## icehawk (May 30, 2003)

Team Mao said:


> Some people have said that they are not comfortable with Charlie being a full time SF and feel he is a PF playing out of position.
> In Chicago, Nocioni has been playing out of his mind since the all star break and seems to be the SF of the future in Chicago.
> Would you guys consider this trade with the Bulls?
> 
> ...


I like this trade for the Raptors. Deng would fit well in our line-up and Duhon gives us a floor general. I would rather just swap Deng and Villy, but even as a Raptor fan I'd say Deng has the edge.

If I'm Chicago though, I'm trying to trade that package along with the New York pick, maybe Gordon, and filler for bigger fish (Pierce, Allen, Garnett, etc). CV3 is nice for them at PF, but rolling the dice on Tyrus or LaMarcus while keeping the core intact would be the best option for them.


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