# Curry: I don't want to mention any names, but Gordon embarrassed some people...



## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> "He (Gordon) can jump out of the gym, that's what I learned," Curry said. "I had no idea he had hops like that. He dunked on a couple people down there. I won't mention any names, because I don't want to embarrass anybody."
> ---
> "Those were just pickup games," Gordon shrugged. "They didn't really boost my confidence or lower my confidence any. It's a different game, pickup and organized. But it does let me know I'm just as talented as a lot of other players and I can be successful.
> 
> ...


And so Skiles mental games begin...

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intid=38267116


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## Chi_Lunatic (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> 
> 
> And so Skiles mental games begin...


and it's REALLY getting annoying too

That article may have been right when it said skiles may not last the year. I wish we could of got doc rivers, he even said he'd like to coach the bulls.


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## Chi_Lunatic (Aug 20, 2002)

Gordon and Jordan have plenty in common. Exactly 20 years ago, Jordan was the No. 3 pick of the draft, heading to Chicago.

"That was the first time I met him," Gordon said of Jordan. "We've talked since then. I went over to his house a few times. A lot of times when I was over there, there were other guys over there too, so I couldn't really get to sit and talk and pick his brain for things

Anybody think this may be a repeat of that draft? u know they say history repeats it's self

1. dwight howard - hakeem the dream

2. emeka okafor - sam bowie

3. ben gordon - air jordan!!


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Sounds like Gordon is a great pick-up game player.

Does anyone know if he has a sikkkkkk crossover?


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> Sounds like Gordon is a great pick-up game player.
> 
> Does anyone know if he has a sikkkkkk crossover?


Err...he's a little more than just a driveway legend.


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## chifaninca (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> Sounds like Gordon is a great pick-up game player.
> 
> Does anyone know if he has a sikkkkkk crossover?


More importantly, does anyone know if he can play solid D at the NBA level?

No D, No PT


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

For a team that had the Zen Master, I am not opposed to Skiles and his coach speak. These aren't mind games that Skiles is playing, he's being honest. If you want minutes, you better know and execute his play book and defend. 

Gordon has the ability to score but will he execute the offense to allow his teammates good shots? Gordon has acknowledged his rookie status, the way Skiles is treating him goes with the territory.


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## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Chi_Lunatic</b>!
> Gordon and Jordan have plenty in common. Exactly 20 years ago, Jordan was the No. 3 pick of the draft, heading to Chicago.
> 
> "That was the first time I met him," Gordon said of Jordan. "We've talked since then. I went over to his house a few times. A lot of times when I was over there, there were other guys over there too, so I couldn't really get to sit and talk and pick his brain for things
> ...



a most important factor of all, they both lead their teams to NCAA championship before they joined the NBA. both are winners.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

6'2" and dunking on guys?

Baron Davis baby.....


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

So here we have Skiles talking about Ben Gordon like he's Jamal Crawford.

But a key difference is that Ben is the player this administration chose, and Ben wasn't even a great college defender. Sure, Skiles and Paxson can motivate all they want, but they're going to have to sleep in the bed they made here. They chose a player who is a scorer as opposed to a player with greater defensive upside like Andre Iguodala.

They better hope Ben makes great strides as a defender.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> They chose a player who is a scorer as opposed to a player with greater defensive upside like Andre Iguodala.


Get over it.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

Is this Agenda Thursday and I didn't get the memo??!!??


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> 
> 
> Get over it.


Look, I'll be first to admit that Ben Gordon is a far more skilled baketball player than my guy Andre. But when I hear Skiles talking like this, all I can think of is "well, duh!" as I revert to fourth grade language. Ben's defense is one of his weaker points coming out of college. Iggy was mad inconsistant in college, but at times he could really lock up #1 scorers. 

This is who the team wanted, and I have openly wondered about the fit with Ben Gordon more than I have wondered about the general quality of the player. I just hope he doesn't wind up in the Skiles doghouse because we need him on the court.


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## Chi_Lunatic (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sith</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> a most important factor of all, they both lead their teams to NCAA championship before they joined the NBA. both are winners.


VERY true

also, I'm not knocking jordan. But I don't think NOBODY thought he'd be that good his rookie year. In college he was a REALLY good player but not as phenomenal as he was in the league. Hopefully the same happens with gordon


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>chifaninca</b>!
> 
> 
> More importantly, does anyone know if he can play solid D at the NBA level?
> ...


why , Jamal hd plenty of minutes 

From what I've seen , he Ain't the Best defensive player , but I won't stick it to him untill he's some time into the season...


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> Iggy was mad inconsistant in college, but at times he could really lock up #1 scorers.


Well, in the Bulls position, you don't pick for need...you pick for talent. And Ben will just have to learn to play defense.



> I just hope he doesn't wind up in the Skiles doghouse because we need him on the court.


Ben?

Me too.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118561&highlight=rookie+rank

Several people in this year think Ben is going to win the rookie of the year. It's encouraging to see fans outside of our circle with very high expectations for one of our own.


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## Cochise (Apr 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Look, I'll be first to admit that Ben Gordon is a far more skilled baketball player than my guy Andre. But when I hear Skiles talking like this, all I can think of is "well, duh!" as I revert to fourth grade language. Ben's defense is one of his weaker points coming out of college. Iggy was mad inconsistant in college, but at times he could really lock up #1 scorers.
> ...



The fact that those two place a high value on defense and team chemistry and yet still took Gordon tells a lot. Not only about how good they believe he'll be as a player and fit on the team but also how good the team, as a whole on defense, can eventually be. Remember, we are still betting on the bigs coming through. If they do so on defense, the Bulls then become a good defensive unit. Just for need, Gordon was a good choice because his offensive potential could mean more to a team who's GM is trying to load up with tough players who can play d and when we didn't know what was going to happen to JC.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

C'mon now DMD. The Bulls took a long hard look at Iggy... two tryouts and one more informal one if I remember correctly. I think Gordon just knocked their socks off in his.

I can't say for certain Gordon was the unanimous pick at #3, but there have been other GMs ala Bird that gave a similar vote of approval.


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## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

gordon is gonna be off da chain good!


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I *told you* back in February of this year, that Ben Gordon was the ****. I'm glad to see there are now a whole bunch of people who understand that Okafor will be a bust, while Gordon will be an all-star. 

He was the most talented player on UConn his whole career there.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
> C'mon now DMD. The Bulls took a long hard look at Iggy... two tryouts and one more informal one if I remember correctly. I think Gordon just knocked their socks off in his.
> 
> I can't say for certain Gordon was the unanimous pick at #3, but there have been other GMs ala Bird that gave a similar vote of approval.


I'm not really saying "we should have taken Iggy as opposed to Gordon" here. Picking yet another short guard, despite being old hat for us, is acutally outside the box thinking in our circumstance, and I respect that. I also will freely admit that Ben Gordon is already a hell of a basketball player and I hope he's good enough to become our star player right away. My concern all along has been him fitting in with the Bulls as some sort of a shooting guard, and it's still a concern for me.

I just hope that Skiles in particular is committed to playing Gordon despite what I expect to be early defensive deficiencies. I just got a little freaked when I saw that quote up above and it sounded like he was talking about Jamal.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Chi_Lunatic</b>!
> 
> 1. dwight howard - hakeem the dream
> 
> ...


:laugh: :laugh: Could be nice .

Look 

GORDON
JORDAN

Six letters OMG ! 
Both have the "O" at second letter "R" at Third and "D" at four OMG ! :uhoh:


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

Just a note of mention in that other thread gentlemen.

Luol Deng is seriously flying under the radar for the most part. 

I'm glad he's being ignored by most of the NBA world cause it will THAT MUCH sweeter when Luol Deng becomes the better of the 3 rookies we have this year. 

Yes Ladies and Gents....you heard it here first. Luol Deng will be better than Ben Gordon and Andres Nocioni within the next 3 years. Bank it!


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> Just a note of mention in that other thread gentlemen.
> 
> Luol Deng is seriously flying under the radar for the most part.
> ...


I'll bank it, but I have a feeling you will be wrong.


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## Chi_Lunatic (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> Luol Deng is seriously flying under the radar for the most part.
> 
> I'm glad he's being ignored by most of the NBA world cause it will THAT MUCH sweeter when Luol Deng becomes the better of the 3 rookies we have this year.


Yea, he's VERY underrated. Even on the NBA.com chicago season preview, the writer said he doesn't expect much at all from Luol this season.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

Deng isn't flying under the radar so much as people just think he'll be a bust. They see "Duke" and disparaging remarks about athleticism and immediately make the bold claim that Luol won't pan out. Despite the fact that Luol was somewhat limited by being a freshman under coach K and still looked like the best player on the team, and often on either team, and despite the fact that Deng's athleticism is just fine - just not spectacular to the eye. I see a kid who's only 19 who makes smarter plays than plenty of grizzled NBA vets and always seems to be in the right place at the right time, to go along with a very solid set of skills and fundamentals.

Fine with me if people knock on Luol. I don't really care which of our rookies ends up the best. I just want them to all be good players, and I'm optimistic they will.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118561&highlight=rookie+rank
> 
> Several people in this year think Ben is going to win the rookie of the year. It's encouraging to see fans outside of our circle with very high expectations for one of our own.


They didn't get to see the Bulls system in action on TV much last year. Based upon the pick (#3), I'd hope he has some kind of decent shot at the ROY.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I think people are missing the main point of this thread. Ben Gordon was tearing up Kirk Hinrich. Paxson was probaly holding a gun at Curry's head "You better not mention my golden boys name otherwise your cut"


BG for ROY Deng, and Niocini will be good, but I think that Gordon will be the best out of the three, followed by Deng, and Niocini as the 6th man.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Great Twinkee</b>!
> I think people are missing the main point of this thread. Ben Gordon was tearing up Kirk Hinrich.


haha, how did you come to that conclusion?

EDIT -- The article says "Gordon dunked on a few people" and you come to the conclusion that Gordon was "tearing up Kirk Hinrich" 

I know Gordon is your boy, and you dont like Hinrich, but you dont have to make things up.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I don't hate Hinrich, but it makes it hard to like a guy that management is butt kissing so much thats not really leading us to wins. If it was Jordan or someone of that stature then I'd be okay with this, but this guy hasn't even played his 2nd year in the league yet and they act like he is a future superstar. You can say Hinrich had a good season last year without buttkissing.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

Wasn't Curry talking about the pickup games at Hoops Gym? I don't remember Kirk being in attendance for those games, so I find it hard to believe that he's one of the nameless people Gordon dunked on.


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## lorgg (Dec 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>GB</b>!
> 
> 
> And so Skiles mental games begin...
> ...


He's just pounding home that value of hard work. I applaud him for his consistency. 

Some people look for anything negative they can.

Ooooh Boogey Boogey...Skiles playin' Mind Games on me now!


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ViciousFlogging</b>!
> Wasn't Curry talking about the pickup games at Hoops Gym? I don't remember Kirk being in attendance for those games, so I find it hard to believe that he's one of the nameless people Gordon dunked on.


Well since it was dates 10/7/04 I assumed that it was a pickup game during practice at the Berto Center.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

read the article. it states exactly when it was, and who was there. no mention of kirk being "torn up".



> He spent most of *August and September* playing at Hoops on Chicago's West Side against high-caliber NBA competition.
> 
> "Those were just pickup games," Gordon shrugged. "They didn't really boost my confidence or lower my confidence any. It's a different game, pickup and organized. But it does let me know I'm just as talented as a lot of other players and I can be successful.
> 
> "One day I'd have to guard a big guard like *Quentin Richardson* or another day it would be a couple rookies like *Shaun Livingston* or *Devin Harris, Larry Hughes, Dwyane Wade*, guys like that. So you kind of got a mix of everything. It was fun."


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## Siouxperior (Jan 15, 2003)

So despite being 6'2", he is going to be the starting SG?


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> I'll bank it, but I have a feeling you will be wrong.


Go for it. I'm going with who I consider the smarter basketball player of the two. 

Luol Deng is going to be a far more effective player throughout his career because of his ability to beat his opponents with his mind. He can outsmart players at will and find ways to beat them. That's what I believe is going to be his most successful trait as a Chicago Bull. The ability to play smarter than the next guy. 

I think Ben is going to try to do too much. That's the ONE THING I am REALLY concerned about with him. Can he stay within himself? Can he allow himself to play into the flow of what a defense gives and presents? 

I think Luol Deng is just going to beat people. Plain and simple. All day long. He's not going to be shooting 100% or locking down Kobe Bryant to 4 free throws and 1 basket. I think he's just going to be able to make people pay all day for not giving him credit. 

THEN WITH ALL THAT you look at our lineup and look at possible credit where credit will probably be due. 

1: Kirk Hinrich
2: Ben Gordon
3: Luol Deng
4: Tyson Chandler
5: Eddy Curry

If I'm a defense and looking at that. I better hope someone is injured because each and every single one of those guys in the lineup can hurt you offensively and stand their own defensively. 

We're long in the front court, quick in the back court, and we are going to evolve into a solid corps of athletes if we give it time to gel. 

Too many people are going to want to press the panic button and I fully believe that we need to just be patient throughout this year and focus on the good things we see from our athletes. Obviously they're going to make mistakes. They're HARDLY perfect basketball players, but since that's the case YOU AS A BASKETBALL FAN HAVE TO ASK ONE SIMPLE QUESTION?

Do I believe in the personnel and coaching staff to grow from and correct the mistakes that will occur throughout this season?

Do you believe in that we have that ability?

I think with the personnel, the leadership, and with proper coaching that this team has the prowess to be successful because of their willingness to KEEP improving. The difference between before and now is that we NOW have athletes who won't settle and they CERTAINLY WON'T MAKE EXCUSES. They take it on themselves to get better. 

That's the difference and that is why I believe that the Bulls will have a successful year because of the improved NBA basketball we will witness throughout the year.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> 
> I think Ben is going to try to do too much. That's the ONE THING I am REALLY concerned about with him. Can he stay within himself? Can he allow himself to play into the flow of what a defense gives and presents?


I have to say that in the three summer league games that I saw, I was very impressed with the fact that Gordon played within himself, did not force things that weren't there, and played within the framework of the offense. He wasn't hogging the ball and you didn't think that much about his scoring, but you'd look at the box score after the game and he'd have 17 points.


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

DMD, that's what I am "hoping" for, but it is certainly a legitimate concern once he starts playing against stiffer competition. 

How cool is Ben Gordon and can he play that way on a consistent basis? In my mind he has to otherwise the Bulls as a whole will suffer.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> DMD, that's what I am "hoping" for, but it is certainly a legitimate concern once he starts playing against stiffer competition.
> 
> How cool is Ben Gordon and can he play that way on a consistent basis? In my mind he has to otherwise the Bulls as a whole will suffer.


Agreed.


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## Electric Slim (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mizenkay</b>!
> read the article. it states exactly when it was, and who was there. no mention of kirk being "torn up".


Yeah, but we need another stupid controversy to make us all miserable again, don't we?

Since Ben is now what is possibly the "flashiest" member of the team with the most street cred (he struck a female student), I hereby will claim all future non-jocking-Ben comments to be "Hatin' on Ben".


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Agreed.


Here's what's funny DMD. Everyone thinks I'm stuck up the azz about our rookies and how God-Like they are going to be on a basketball court. 

I have my own legitimate concerns. They just aren't the same as everyone elses. 

Luol Deng's health is what scares me the most. I think that is probably the one thing he is going to have to be careful about. I see a finesse player like him having some health concerns in the future. 

That and I hope to God his shooting is on this season. Cause if it ain't...the Bulls are in trouble.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

I agree that Luol Deng will be our best rookie out of the three we've got this year. He has gone so far under the radar, and sometimes I think we've got a Grant Hill type talent on our hands. A finesse small forward who flew under the radar because his talents were hidden within Dukes system. Hill wasnt especially athletic, or especially good at one thing, he was just smart and versatile. A lot like Deng if you ask me.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Johnny Mac</b>!
> I agree that Luol Deng will be our best rookie out of the three we've got this year. He has gone so far under the radar, and sometimes I think we've got a Grant Hill type talent on our hands. A finesse small forward who flew under the radar because his talents were hidden within Dukes system. Hill wasnt especially athletic, or especially good at one thing, he was just smart and versatile. A lot like Deng if you ask me.


you didn't just say grant hill wasn't athletic of especially good at one thing?

c'mon now grant could jump out of a building and he was the best rebounding 3 in his prime , had one of the best handles , was one of the best passers and scorers ...and he could play really good defense.

bringing grant down to pump deng up is not the answer


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> you didn't just say grant hill wasn't athletic of especially good at one thing?
> 
> c'mon now grant could jump out of a building and he was the best rebounding 3 in his prime , had one of the best handles , was one of the best passers and scorers ...and he could play really good defense.
> ...


Grant Hill could jump out of the building? I dont remember that. He was athletic, but not top tier athleticism. He was an average athlete to maybe above average NBA athlete. That same could be said about Deng.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

"Ben's been OK," Skiles said. "He's learning. He's taking his lumps a little bit in practice. He needs to really work on his defense, especially his *off-the-ball defense*. Offensively, he's done some really nice things. It's just going to take him some time."

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38269121

Sounds like Ben has never been taught the finer points of _team defense_. It doesn't appear there's a problem with Ben's "want to," just his "know how." And Skiles is right. Learning how to play effective help defense, especially in the pros, can take time. And with Skiles as his coach, I'm sure he'll learn quickly that PT and defense go hand in hand.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Johnny Mac</b>!
> 
> 
> Grant Hill could jump out of the building? I dont remember that. He was athletic, but not top tier athleticism. He was an average athlete to maybe above average NBA athlete. That same could be said about Deng.


I guess you missed that alley-oop dunk Grant Hill caught as a freshman in the 1991 championship game against Kansas from Bobby Hurley.

Grant Hill always had hops.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> "Ben's been OK," Skiles said. "He's learning. He's taking his lumps a little bit in practice. He needs to really work on his defense, especially his *off-the-ball defense*. Offensively, he's done some really nice things. It's just going to take him some time."
> 
> http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38269121
> ...


You can take out Bens name and substitute "Jamal" and come up with the same thing. One of the knocks on Jamal was off the ball defense. Jamal had 4 years to work on it. Ben is a rookie in trainging camp.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Nice overall thread guys! Good reading in some of it. Must be getting closer to exhibition games. It is good to really tlk about the Bulls again. 

Good to see Ben has hops. Hops is important in todays game but is not the end all. E-Rob has hops. But still, it is a nice, encouraging read. 

As for Deng. When I think of Deng, I thin of Magette. Yet Cory did not play as much as Deng did in his freshman year as Deng did this year. Yet, Deng was an important part of a good Duke team. He will not come in make his mark this season. Magette took some time to become a nice NBA player. Some people may say Cory had more hops. True, but Deng has a nice overall game that will do well for him for years to come. 

I agree with VF, (Vicious Flogging) when he said it does not matter which one the better of the two or three. I too, hope all three are good for years to come with the bulls.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

I wonder if we'll get to see Ben's hops anywhere outside of pickup games. You don't need hops to catch and shoot coming off screens.

I'm thrilled with the pick of Gordon. He was the guy I wanted at #3, and Paxson grabbed him. To his credit.

What I saw of Gordon in RMR left me far less impressed with him than what I saw of him in college. I attribute it to the system the team was running, which had him dribbling the ball across the lane at the FT line instead of toward the hole.

Gordon did finish 12th in the RMR in scoring, about 2 PPG more than Pargo.

Sure, RMR doesn't mean that much, but consider if Gordon had scored 30+ PPG and led the league in scoring. That's what you'd expect a guy who's going to be dominant or even a very strong NBA player to do against this kind of competition.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> I wonder if we'll get to see Ben's hops anywhere outside of pickup games. You don't need hops to catch and shoot coming off screens.
> 
> I'm thrilled with the pick of Gordon. He was the guy I wanted at #3, and Paxson grabbed him. To his credit.
> ...


Teams manage their rookies performances at places like the RMR. They're also usually very careful of what they'll say to the press about a particular player. There are a variety of reasons for this.

For example, Gordon's already being touted as a ROY candidate by some. There have been statements describing a hope that the Bulls may have struck gold with their #3 pick the same way they did with the same pick back in the 80's (a comparision to Jordan, no doubt).

If they had let Gordon run wild in the RMR, he may have averaged 30ppg. But what would that have proven? They could be talking him up to the press right now, but for what purpose?

The kid was the #3 pick in a draft that was perceived as having two players at the top that many considered #1 and #1A. That means expectations for Gordon are natually going to be extremely high. The Bulls don't want to add anymore pressure to him than he already has to deal with. So they weren't going to let him dominate in the RMR and their praise for him early on will be subdued. You see the very same approach being taken by Republicans and Democrats prior to each presidential debate. Both parties try very hard to lower the public's expectations of their candidate's next performance. 

The only thing that matters, really is their on court performances when the games count. And that's still a ways off.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> 
> 
> Teams manage their rookies performances at places like the RMR. They're also usually very careful of what they'll say to the press about a particular player. There are a variety of reasons for this.
> ...


*The only thing that matters, really is their on court performances when the games count. And that's still a ways off.*

:yes:


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> 
> 
> Teams manage their rookies performances at places like the RMR. They're also usually very careful of what they'll say to the press about a particular player. There are a variety of reasons for this.
> ...


How does "lower expectations" square with "we struck gold like we did with a #3 pick in the 80s" ?

Seems to me like that #3 pick in the 80s would have run wild and scored 30+ PPG in RMR, just as he did against Bird, Parrish, McHale, et al, in a playoff game. A guy that good DID dominate and dare the rest of the league to stop him.

The problem with these low expectations is Gordon's likely to meet them.


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## mr.ankle20 (Mar 7, 2004)

.

Sure, RMR doesn't mean that much, but consider if Gordon had scored 30+ PPG and led the league in scoring. That's what you'd expect a guy who's going to be dominant or even a very strong NBA player to do against this kind of competition. [/QUOTE]

dwayne wade struggle in the summer league , But he had a great rookie season and he was one of the main reasons the heat went to the playoffs last year


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kismet</b>!
> "Ben's been OK," Skiles said. "He's learning. He's taking his lumps a little bit in practice. He needs to really work on his defense, especially his *off-the-ball defense*. Offensively, he's done some really nice things. It's just going to take him some time."
> 
> http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=38269121
> ...


seeing as emeka okafor was playing for his team at the same time , I am having a hard time believing the coaches at Uconn cant coach defense.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mr.ankle20</b>!
> .
> 
> Sure, RMR doesn't mean that much, but consider if Gordon had scored 30+ PPG and led the league in scoring. That's what you'd expect a guy who's going to be dominant or even a very strong NBA player to do against this kind of competition.


dwayne wade struggle in the summer league , But he had a great rookie season and he was one of the main reasons the heat went to the playoffs last year [/QUOTE]

dwayne wade was learning a new position in summer league , so its not the same thing.

i think asking ben to avg. 30 in summer league is way too much considering i dont ever remember it being done. 20 points would have been very good though , he should have at least led the bulls in scoring .


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Johnny Mac</b>!
> 
> 
> Grant Hill could jump out of the building? I dont remember that. He was athletic, but not top tier athleticism. He was an average athlete to maybe above average NBA athlete. That same could be said about Deng.


\

Woah, u're off here. Grant Hill was a top level NBA athlete. U should check out some of his highlight clips with the Pistons. He could flat out get up. From 95-00 they were few like him in the league. Speed, hops and strength. Grant as an athlete is right up there with Kobe and T-mac.


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## WookiesOnRitalin (Jan 22, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> dwayne wade struggle in the summer league , But he had a great rookie season and he was one of the main reasons the heat went to the playoffs last year


My question to you is this grinch...

Are we faulting Ben Gordon for not scoring in Summer League as if we expect him to just dominate THAT competition?

Or are we faulting Ben Gordon for taking a lesser role for the team (which was a RMR best 6-1)?

I'm sure if he was a selfish player he probably would have just put up HUGE stats. Since he played within the flow of the team...I don't fault him. 

My main thing is that once at the NBA level can he learn to play physical defense (because he should be able to based on his physique) and can he play within himself and play off of our re-energized bigs? Those are my two concerns.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Great Twinkee</b>!
> I think people are missing the main point of this thread. Ben Gordon was tearing up Kirk Hinrich. Paxson was probaly holding a gun at Curry's head "You better not mention my golden boys name otherwise your cut"


:laugh:


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>WookiesOnRitalin</b>!
> 
> 
> My question to you is this grinch...
> ...



i know its hard to believe in the paxson-skiles regime but it is possible to be dominant and unselfish at the same time , it is possible to be the best player on the team and not take away from what the other players are accomplishing.

i saw deng do it , in fact i saw deng do something i didn't see gordon do ....hold his own on defense , a major reason deng was a better player in summer league add to that he shot better and played a headier game.

gordon doesn't have the excuse that deng had playing a new position than he was in college , or by being somewhat pyhsically weak as deng is. gordon had all the advantages.

did you watch other teams play in summer league ? i assure you it was possible to have a player dominate while actually making things easier on hiws teammates i saw quite a few players actually do this , josh howard and m.daniels on dallas , mike sweetney on the knicks , luol deng to a lesser degree on the bulls .

summer league is not the end all be all of the world but it is an indicator of certain things , it showed that pyhsically gordon can get things done , he has a great 1st step , nice handle , but it also showed some of his flaws most notably on the defensive end, and it showed a lack of dominance at a level he was supposed to dominate because of how accomplished he was entering the nba.

taking a lesser role on a team on which he was supposed to be the best player and by far the best scorer is not the way to start things off in the nba. its a habit he will have to break if he expects to get alot of time starting in a month.


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