# 5-team Deal!!!! YIKES! Miami gets Walker, Williams, et. al[merged]



## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

RealGM - The Miami Heat , Memphis Grizzlies and Boston Celtics have reached a tentative agreement on a three-team trade according to an NBA source close to the negotiations who spoke with DraftExpress.com’s Jonathan Givony.

The Miami Heat will receive Antoine Walker via a sign-and-trade from Boston, as well as Jason Williams and James Posey from the Grizzlies.

The Grizzlies will receive Eddie Jones from Miami and Marcus Banks from Boston.

The Celtics will receive Earl Watson via a sign-and-trade from Memphis, as well as Dorrell Wright or Miami’s trade exception.

Watson’s inclusion in the trade is a new twist to the deal, satisfying their need for a starting point guard. He will reportedly receive the mid level exception.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*

So the grizz have B. Jackson, M. Banks & POSSIBLY D. Stoudamire all at the point. Not bad.


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*

Damn..... Walker, J Dub, and Posey for Jones? Miami comes out like theives.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*

Wow. Miami has a ridiculous lineup if this goes down.


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*

Ahhh I was looking forward to seeing the Wade/Wright backcourt in a few years. Oh well, the Pacers don't look like the favorites anymore if this goes down.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*

UPDATE, the it's actually a 5 TEAM trade :

The Celtics made sure they received something in return for free agent Antoine Walker, agreeing in principle to a sign-and-trade with Miami this afternoon. According to two Eastern Conference sources, Walker will receive $52 million over six years with a starting salary of approximately $6.75 million.
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Although the details of the deal, which likely will also involve Utah, Memphis, and Sacramento, and 12 or more players, are still being finalized, the same sources said Boston would receive two second-round picks from Miami; the rights to Albert Morales, who currently plays for Valencia, Spain; a $5.4 million trade exception; Utah 7-footer Curtis Borchardt, and Miami wing player Qyntel Woods as well as cash considerations from Miami.

Other players trading places in the deal include the Grizzlies’ Jason Williams and James Posey heading to the Heat. Eddie Jones would move from Miami to Memphis. Greg Ostertag goes from Sacramento to Utah, while Bobby Jackson leaves Sacramento for Memphis. Kirk Snyder and Raul Lopez go from Utah to Memphis.

League approval of the deal could come as early as Wednesday. For the Celtics, the deal represented an opportunity to get coveted draft picks and a valued trade exception without assuming salary.

While Borchardt will compete for a job, don’t expect to see Woods in a Boston uniform. The Celtics have a glut of players at the wing position, plus past off-court problems make Woods a less-than-ideal fit for the organization. But Boston might not waive Woods immediately, preferring to see if it could throw him into another deal before the start of the season.

Both Borchardt and Woods are entering the final year or their respective contracts. And, in any event, the cash considerations the Celtics will receive should cover the salaries of Borchardt and Woods.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basket...eltics_agree_to_deal_sending_walker_to_miami/


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*

I'm sorry but we should have done SOMETHING this offseason.

Indiana/Miami/NJ/Pistons/Cavs are gonna be WELL improved and we have nothing to show for except Eddie Basden. Hell even the Hawks (M. Williams, J. Johnson), Bobcats (S. May & R. Felton), Bucks (A. Bogut, B. Simmons) & Knicks (N. Robinson, C. Frye, Q. Richardson, J. James) picked up some quality players this offseason.

THE WHOLE DAMN EAST IMPROVED while we did NOTHING


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*

Heat:

C- Shaq
PF - Haslem
SF - Walker
SG - Wade
PG - Jason Williams

Bench:
Posey
Zo (Probably resign)
Rasual Butler
Simien
Doleac
Damon Jones?

That's one talented team. Posey will replace Eddie Jones' defense. Younger and taller. Can Posey play the 2? Cuz what this team is lacking is a natural 2 to backup Wade.

Celtics:
Look for Pierce to sulk and demand for trade before deadline next season.

Grizzlies: Doesn't change much. The success of this team really depends on Gasol. They have solid role players.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*

Yeah, yeah, yeah. big deal.

I just put in my order for a custom Bulls jersey.

C. Space
#06


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*



RSP83 said:


> Heat:
> 
> C- Shaq
> PF - Haslem
> ...



I Doubt Damon Jones will re-sign with the heat to BACK-UP J. Williams. More than likely he'll go to Cleveland and start.

Pierce will DEFinintely demand a trade though.

Grizzlies will continue to be mediocre until they have a player on their team BETTER than pau gasol


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*

I know some people have mixed opinions on J-Will and (moreso) Walker, but I've always been a fan of both of them.
Great trade for the Heat, if it goes down as is.


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## Xantos (Jan 8, 2003)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*

Man I've been following things, and one this I do agree with is that the East is back....It scares me that Pax is just sitting there and not in the hunt for anything...Cavs, Knicks, Nets, Heat, and Pacers have bigger back courts, while ours stay small....I don't know maybe we can grab Finely....I think Pax has let some get away.


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*

People have been questioning Pax since day one (including myself), and he's always come through. I have faith in his plan, whatever it is.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*



Xantos said:


> Man I've been following things, and one this I do agree with is that the East is back....It scares me that Pax is just sitting there and not in the hunt for anything...Cavs, Knicks, Nets, Heat, and Pacers have bigger back courts, while ours stay small....I don't know maybe we can grab Finely....I think Pax has let some get away.


And all we've heard it Tom Gugliotta & Toni Kukoc 

I Don't think finely's coming here for 1 reason. He only gets the rest of his $51 mill in 5Mill a year installments. Which means he's not getting that 20 Mill (i think it was) this year that he was supposed to have gotten if he was still a mav. I think it's gonna take the MLE to get FINELY on ANYone's team.

When Phoenix S&T's JJ, they'll have the money to get Finely. They won't be as good though.

G Nash
G Finely/R. Bell
F Marion / J. Jackson
F Stoudamire
C Thomas


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*

I can't see why the Heat are rebuilding their team so drastically, they were a couple of minutes and a Wade injury from the Finals last season.

I have seen 'Toine ripped by most, White Chocolate is not a winning PG, and Posey put up a whopping 8/4/2 on 35.7% shooting last season. I fail to see how they will be any better than they were last season.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*

Here's my Walton-like superlative: next year's Miami Heat team should be one of the most entertaining in the history of the NBA. Seriously.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*



bullsville said:


> I can't see why the Heat are rebuilding their team so drastically, they were a couple of minutes and a Wade injury from the Finals last season.
> 
> I have seen 'Toine ripped by most, White Chocolate is not a winning PG, and Posey put up a whopping 8/4/2 on 35.7% shooting last season. I fail to see how they will be any better than they were last season.


They would have gotten ABUSED by San An in the FINALS with Wade & Shaq being unhealthy.

Walker's scoring takes pressure off shaq. Walker, Haslem & Zo's rebounding takes pressure off shaq.

White Chocolate has played great B-Ball but he hasn't been in the RIGHT system to even prove to be a winner. Early sac wasn't going anywhere with just Webber & Williams. The grizz DEFININTELY weren't going anywhere with just Gasol leading. Now he's in a system with arguably two of the BEST player's in the NBA.

The Heat will be 2x better than they were this.

Let's not forget D. Wade will be even BETTER than last year.


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## nanokooshball (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*



The ROY said:


> I'm sorry but we should have done SOMETHING this offseason.
> 
> Indiana/Miami/NJ/Pistons/Cavs are gonna be WELL improved and we have nothing to show for except Eddie Basden. Hell even the Hawks (M. Williams, J. Johnson), Bobcats (S. May & R. Felton), Bucks (A. Bogut, B. Simmons) & Knicks (N. Robinson, C. Frye, Q. Richardson, J. James) picked up some quality players this offseason.
> 
> THE WHOLE DAMN EAST IMPROVED while we did NOTHING


well Orlando, 76ers, raptors didn't do much if that helps a little


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*



CiMa said:


> Ahhh I was looking forward to seeing the Wade/Wright backcourt in a few years. Oh well, the Pacers don't look like the favorites anymore if this goes down.


:rofl:

Miami might be a worse team after this deal. They acquired two players that chuck and have terrible basketball IQ. I don't think they could have found worse fits to put next to Shaq.This trade doesn't change anything. Pacers are still the favourites..


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*



Darius Miles Davis said:


> Here's my Walton-like superlative: next year's Miami Heat team should be one of the most entertaining in the history of the NBA. Seriously.


history of western civilization :biggrin:


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*



nanokooshball said:


> well Orlando, 76ers, raptors didn't do much if that helps a little


whew!


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*



vigilante said:


> :rofl:
> 
> Miami might be a worse team after this deal. They acquired two players that chuck and have terrible basketball IQ. I don't think they could have found worse fits to put next to Shaq.This trade doesn't change anything. Pacers are still the favourites..


I think it could work really well. With one of the real legends of the game in O'Neal and and young superstar in Wade, Williams will have two players on the court to give him guidance and a tough coach in either Van Gundy or Reilly. As for Walker, I think he'll be fine. Don't forget Posey, he's a solid player, good D, high jib factor.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*

I still don't know what Memphis is getting out of this trade. They appear to be giving up a hell of a lot of talent in Williams, Posey, and Watson. Eddie Jones is a shadow of what he was when he signed his max contract. He's still a decent role player, but he's hardly worth what was given out for him especially considering his high salary. If Memphis isn't getting a prospect or a first rounder in addition, I think they're really getting screwed. 

Is this following some directive to get out of luxury tax land? If so, Memphis could release Eddie Jones right after trading for him, I believe. 

Memphis was supposedly interested in Magloire earlier this summer. If they manage to obtain him somehow, I feel better about their roster shifts. Otherwise, they've managed to consolidate their roster without improving.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*



nanokooshball said:


> well Orlando, 76ers, raptors didn't do much if that helps a little


Well the Sixers at least brought everyone back from last year. And if they can get Chris Webber healthy and better incorporated into the system there's improvement there.

We have yet to bring anyone back from last year.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*



The ROY said:


> I Doubt Damon Jones will re-sign with the heat to BACK-UP J. Williams. More than likely he'll go to Cleveland and start.
> 
> Pierce will DEFinintely demand a trade though.
> 
> Grizzlies will continue to be mediocre until they have a player on their team BETTER than pau gasol


Oh and I thought I read somewhere in this board that Miami is also interested in bringing in Jay Williams. If Jay Williams can recover to his old form, he's twice the player Damon Jones is. The rich is getting richer.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*

Walker is going to absolutely murder people playing next to Shaq and Wade. Say what you want about the guy, but I can't imagine anyone with a better skill set to take advantage of playing with Shaq. And at root, he wants to win, so he won't be a problem

Shaq, Riley, and Van Gundy will keep white Chocolate in line.

Posey can concentrate on locking guys down.

Geez.

On another note, if I'm Paxson, I'd start considering calling up Danny Ainge and discussing Ben Gordon and Paul Pierce. That's been talked about a lot here, and I've been back and forth on it, but it might be one of the few deals out there could give us a leg up and not hurt in the long run.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*

Who have the Grizz got now ?

*

Magliore
Gasol
Miller
E.Jones
Stoudamire ( if he signs )

Tsakalidis
Cardinal
Warwick
Snyder
Jackson

Borchardt
D.Jones
Emmett
Banks

*

They will likely have to make cuts to Bell and Burks and probably add another back up big 

Interesting moves by Jerry West but they have become weaker defensively and he's definately lowered the payroll in preparation for upping Pau Gasol

Basketball moves have some question marks but the business decisions seem to be the right moves


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*



Mikedc said:


> Walker is going to absolutely murder people playing next to Shaq and Wade. Say what you want about the guy, but I can't imagine anyone with a better skill set to take advantage of playing with Shaq. And at root, he wants to win, so he won't be a problem
> 
> Shaq, Riley, and Van Gundy will keep white Chocolate in line.
> 
> ...


Agree


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*

Which would make the case for resigning Duhon more plausible and would also change our amnesty focus to Raef LaFrentz

*

Curry
LaFrentz ( Amnesty signing with remainder of MLE )
Deng
Pierce
Hinrich

bench

Chandler
Harrington
Nocioni
Basden
Duhon

Blount
Gugliotta
Griffin
Piatowski
Pargo

*

Gordon and Davis for Pierce and Blount


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*

yet what has EJ done to to think that he was part of the reason why we were in the Finals?

so EJ for JWill,Posey,and Walker is not good of a trade for Miami?


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*



Machinehead said:


> Who have the Grizz got now ?
> 
> *
> 
> ...



Maloire wasn't moved


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*



Machinehead said:


> Who have the Grizz got now ?
> 
> *
> 
> ...



Bell's already been cut. Last season.

Grizz also got Lopez. And they didn't get Snyder.

Let's try this.. actually.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: 5-team Deal!!!! YIKES! [merged]*

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2122976


> MIAMI -- In the largest trade in NBA history, Antoine Walker was dealt from Boston to Miami on Tuesday night in a transaction involving five teams and 13 players.
> 
> The Heat also acquired point guard Jason Williams and small forward James Posey from Memphis, while the Grizzlies received guard Eddie Jones from the Heat. The New Orleans Hornets and Utah Jazz were also involved in the deal.
> 
> ...


So this is what it is. 

Miami gets: Walker, J-Will, Posey, Emmett, Duenas
Miami gives: Jones, Butler, Qyntel Woods, Miralles rights, cash

(yikes, they came away with a LOT... mega talented now)

Boston gets: Borchardt, Woods, Miralles
Boston gives: Walker

(not all that bad, considering they were going to lose Walker altogether)

Memphis gets: Lopez, Jones
Memphis gives: Jason Williams, Posey, Emmett

(they lose on talent, but they win on salary after Jones is gone and who knows? maybe it's a better fit for them to have Lopez, a pass-first guard, and Jones, a defensive vet who can still score a little)

Utah gets: Ostertag
Utah gives: Snyder, Lopez, Borchardt

(what the FREAK happened here)

NO gets: Rasual Butler and Kirk Snyder
NO gives: I have no idea. The 2nd rounders? The cash? Actually, I think it was Duenas.

(dang, they won big)


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

*Re: 5-team Deal!!!! YIKES! [merged]*

“Our cap flexibility is what allowed us to get these two players (Kirk Snyder and Rasual Butler) as part of this deal,” Hornets general manager Allan Bristow said. “We were able to acquire two young, quality players while only giving up the rights to a player who has never appeared in a Hornets uniform.”



I think there's a message in there for some Bulls fans.


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## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

*Re: 5-team Deal!!!! YIKES! [merged]*

Wow Miami got basically 3 starters and they got to keep Dorell Wright. Wow...

...

That's just not fair.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: 5-team Deal!!!! YIKES! [merged]*

Miami absolutely destroyed everybody in this deal. I can't even believe how much talent they got back in return for Eddie Jones and Rasual Butler. Jason Williams, Antoine Walker, and James Posey all have their flaws, but playing alongside Shaq and Wade will make that team truly formidable. 

However, I think it's hilarious that so many people are calling for Pax to make changes just because the EC rivals are all making changes. Personally, I think it'd be ignorant; it signals panic. Pax has shown us that he could care less what other people think; he's gonna stick to his plan. It's absolutely pointless for us to move any of our players at this point. There's not a single move we could make to thrust us into Finals contention anyways. Miami, on the other hand, is going for it all. With 2 proven superstars, they can afford to take chances on guys like Walker and White Chocolate.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

*Re: 5-team Deal!!!! YIKES! [merged]*

Orleans gave away no picks. The gave rights to Duenas, a european big and received Snyder and butler. They did extremely well. Miami gave away both 2nd rounders


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: 5-team Deal!!!! YIKES! [merged]*



bullsville said:


> “Our cap flexibility is what allowed us to get these two players (Kirk Snyder and Rasual Butler) as part of this deal,” Hornets general manager Allan Bristow said. “We were able to acquire two young, quality players while only giving up the rights to a player who has never appeared in a Hornets uniform.”
> 
> 
> 
> I think there's a message in there for some Bulls fans.


I certainly hope its not "emulate the Hornets."

Jeez… that’s what the nearly going under, does not pay their employees team says. Not the #3 market in the States, top 5 in attendance team.

I mean, yeah, its not a bad trade by Hornets. But its really because they are at rock bottom and could really use the serviceable players they recieved.

Somewhat frustrating to see all these other teams getting better. But then I look at the players involved in this deal and wonder which ones would I want to be getting major burn for the Bulls if they came here, assuming we resign Duhon and the Towers.

Walker.
Williams? Nah.
Posey? Maybe... but we have Deng and Noc.
Snyder? Lopez? 
Jones could help for 1 year perhaps.

Nothing earth shattering though.

We have a deep team with plenty of upside and no real stars. Kind of makes trades/acquisitions that improve the team drastically tough unless you acquire a true superstar.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*



kukoc4ever said:


> Yeah, yeah, yeah. big deal.
> 
> I just put in my order for a custom Bulls jersey.
> 
> ...


Congrats on the cap space for a below-average free agent class. 

A penny saved is a playoff game lost.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: 5-team Deal!!!! YIKES! [merged]*

The message about cap space is that we should expect to get a nice deal but, short of also including one or more of our current guys in a trade (either sign and trade or an exchange that brings back greater than 25% of the outgoing salary), we aren't likely to see any really important deal.

I mean yeah, it'd be nice to get a Rasul Butler or a Jake Voskuhl or Kirk Snyder (who it's not too soon to ask the bust question on), but these guys would all, really and truly be on the fringe of our rotation.

Similar are the kind of guys you generally see go for traded player exceptions and little to nothing more. Cliff Robinson? Dale Davis? Ick. These guys are the kind of guys teams struggling for the 8th seed pick up, not long-term fits. Therefore, you don't give up a long-term piece to get one. 

Fast forward for the Bulls. Even signing our own guys to significant deals, we'll be far enough under the cap to execute any sign and trade we likely could do for a superstar. But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it.

More likely we'll either end up overpaying for a good player at >MLE (Larry Hughes, Al Harrington, por ejemplo), or we'll be able to make some minor moves like adding a role player like Rasul Butler for basically nothing. Of course, that's not really gonna make much impact on our team if that's all we do, either.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: 5-team Deal!!!! YIKES! [merged]*



Mikedc said:


> The message about cap space is that we should expect to get a nice deal but, short of also including one or more of our current guys in a trade (either sign and trade or an exchange that brings back greater than 25% of the outgoing salary), we aren't likely to see any really important deal.
> 
> I mean yeah, it'd be nice to get a Rasul Butler or a Jake Voskuhl or Kirk Snyder (who it's not too soon to ask the bust question on), but these guys would all, really and truly be on the fringe of our rotation.
> 
> ...


Well said and this has been my major qualm with Paxson and the operational philosophy that the Bulls have taken.

I don't think you make a move for the sake of making a move or keeping up with the Joneses, however, there have been too many quality players moving teams this offseason for the Bulls to sit idle. To bank on the fact that you'll have cap space next offseason or down the road is err in my opinion. 

I guess only time will tell but at least on paper, it looks like we've dropped a rung or two amongst our peers.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: 5-team Deal!!!! YIKES! [merged]*



RetroDreams said:


> Well said and this has been my major qualm with Paxson and the operational philosophy that the Bulls have taken.
> 
> I don't think you make a move for the sake of making a move or keeping up with the Joneses, however, there have been too many quality players moving teams this offseason for the Bulls to sit idle. To bank on the fact that you'll have cap space next offseason or down the road is err in my opinion.
> 
> I guess only time will tell but at least on paper, it looks like we've dropped a rung or two amongst our peers.


Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you, but your 2nd paragraph seems to contradict itself. I'm not seeing how "quality players moving teams this off-season" has anything to do with what the Bulls should or shouldn't do right now. Miami just made a big move, obviously, but they were already #1 in the East as it was. 

And in terms of all this cap space talk for next season, I don't think the Bulls are banking the team's future on it. It's really just a matter of keeping our options open just in case the right deal comes along. The team's future, as we all should know, rests in the hands of our young core and their improvement.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: 5-team Deal!!!! YIKES! [merged]*



yodurk said:


> Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you, but your 2nd paragraph seems to contradict itself. I'm not seeing how "quality players moving teams this off-season" has anything to do with what the Bulls should or shouldn't do right now. Miami just made a big move, obviously, but they were already #1 in the East as it was.
> 
> And in terms of all this cap space talk for next season, I don't think the Bulls are banking the team's future on it. It's really just a matter of keeping our options open just in case the right deal comes along. The team's future, as we all should know, rests in the hands of our young core and their improvement.


Not contradictory at all. I've said I don't believe you make moves just for the sake of making a move, but it certainly seems as if our organization is taking the wait and see approach on everything rather then being proactive.

Right now, again because of being reactive, we don't have a young core. We have two undersized shooting guards and fringe players. Until Duhon, Chandler and Curry are resigned, the Bulls are a top-tier NBADL team.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

*OT: Heat get Toine , Jason Williams and Posey!!*

Holy ****!

In a 5 team 13 player trade , and they give Eddie Jones , Butler and some 2nd rounders???!!!???



> Memphis Commercial Appeal - Point guard Jason Williams resides in Orlando during the offseason. Eddie Jones once was Jerry West's lottery pick in Los Angeles.
> When NBA training camps begin in October, Williams won't have far to travel and Jones will reunite with the man who gave him an NBA start.
> 
> The Grizzlies completed their part in a five-team, 13 player deal Tuesday -- the largest trade in NBA history -- that will send Williams, James Posey and Andre Emmett to the Miami Heat for swingman Eddie Jones.
> ...


For some involved , I really don't get it...

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/36880/20050803/record_five_team_deal_announced/

Heats roster:

Jason Williams
Wade
Posey/Toine
Toine/Haslem
Shaq

Scaryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: OT: Heat get Toine , Jason Williams and Posey!!*

Man, Miami just got seriously deep...


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: OT: Heat get Toine , Jason Williams and Posey!!*

I am a little torn on this. I like Toine as a fit there. I also like Posey as an athletic SF with size who can defend. But Williams to me is a head scratcher. I just do not see that as a good fit. But I hate his game so maybe that is it.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

*OT: Heat Celtics Grizzlies Megatrade Biggest in NBA History*

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sportsstory.asp?id=79792

A few hours after announcing a new five-year, $100 million contract for Shaquille O’Neal, the Heat added a pair of starters in the megatrade involving Miami, Memphis, New Orleans, Utah and Boston.

Aside from Walker, a three-time all-star, the Heat also acquired point guard Jason Williams and small forward James Posey from Memphis, while the Grizzlies received guard Eddie Jones from the Heat.

Miami also received Andre Emmett from Memphis and the draft rights to Roberto Duenas of Spain from the Hornets; Utah received Greg Ostertag from Memphis; Boston picked up Curtis Borchardt from Utah and a package — Qyntel Woods, the draft rights to Spanish center Albert Miralles, two second-round draft picks and cash — from Miami; New Orleans acquired Rasual Butler from Miami and Kirk Snyder from Utah; and the Grizzlies received guard Raul Lopez from the Jazz.

Ainge negotiated the trade for Boston, signaling the Celtics’ move toward rebuilding, and West handled the Grizzlies’ end of the deal. Memphis also dealt Bonzi Wells to Sacramento earlier in the day for a package headlined by Bobby Jackson.

The five-team trade was larger than a 12-player, four-team deal in 2000 involving Patrick Ewing that had been the biggest in league history.

“We traded a lot, but we got back three quality players,” said Riley, the Heat’s president. “Antoine Walker is one of the very best multifaceted, versatile players in this game. … He is able to handle the ball, pass it, make plays, shoot 3s and rebound the ball. There isn’t anyone in this league better at doing that.”


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: 5-team Deal!!!! YIKES! [merged]*

Bump so 18 more threads aren't created this AM.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: 5-team Deal!!!! YIKES! [merged]*



RetroDreams said:


> Bump so 18 more threads aren't created this AM.


Thanks. Nice to see you looking out for our best interests.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

*Re: REALGM : 3-Team Deal NEAR Completion*



nanokooshball said:


> well Orlando, 76ers, raptors didn't do much if that helps a little


Very true, but these teams were not going anywhere as it is.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: 5-team Deal!!!! YIKES! [merged]*



TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Thanks. Nice to see you looking out for our best interests.


Don't know if that was jab or sincere, but was hoping to get this discussion going again since it fizzled last evening.


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## TheLastTruePG (Mar 25, 2003)

The heat on paper became a much better team.. I for one would like to see them play the season out b4 I hail them the world champions.. Defense still wins championships.. Toine doesnt play exceptional defense.. J-dub's D isn't amazing either..


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Riley is the kind of coach who can coax a player like Walker to play better D than he ever has in his life.

Now I'm hoping for a retooling of the Lakers to build up to a new Riley/PJax rivalry...


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

How in the hell did Miami get Jason Williams, James Posey, and Antoine Walker for freakin Eddie Jones/!??!?!?!

All 3 guys they got back are better than FREAKING JONES??? How the hell does this happen!?!?!?!


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

HAWK23 said:


> How in the hell did Miami get Jason Williams, James Posey, and Antoine Walker for freakin Eddie Jones/!??!?!?!
> 
> All 3 guys they got back are better than FREAKING JONES??? How the hell does this happen!?!?!?!


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

So...........................

Miami address their biggest issues; lack of depth and another scoring option.

Walker can alleviate some of the burden put on Wade and Shaq. Williams can score too, if needed. They get someone to run the point if Jones bolts (or has he already?).

Then they add a defensive wing (Posey) after trading Jones.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiight....

Yeah...next year looks promising.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Vintage said:


> So...........................
> 
> Miami address their biggest issues; lack of depth and another scoring option.
> 
> ...


I actually don't think Miami has used their MLE yet. They used Early Bird rights to sign Haslem, and I don't think any of the trades they just completed use the MLE. I think they could go after Duhon as a backup point guard if they wanted. If Chris' main desire is to win an NBA championship, he would strongly consider it, though clearly he would have more of a role with this team.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I actually don't think Miami has used their MLE yet. They used Early Bird rights to sign Haslem, and I don't think any of the trades they just completed use the MLE. I think they could go after Duhon as a backup point guard if they wanted. If Chris' main desire is to win an NBA championship, he would strongly consider it, though clearly he would have more of a role with this team.


Interesting. More interesting would be whether Duhon wins the starting job, which I think he would.

It'd be HUGE if Miami offered Duhon the MLE. Think Pax would match? Some big enough part of the MLE that Pax wouldn't match?

The good news for Toine is he won't have to guard Shaq anymore. Well... maybe in practice.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> It'd be HUGE if Miami offered Duhon the MLE. Think Pax would match? Some big enough part of the MLE that Pax wouldn't match?


I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.







That would be bad.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I actually don't think Miami has used their MLE yet. They used Early Bird rights to sign Haslem, and I don't think any of the trades they just completed use the MLE. I think they could go after Duhon as a backup point guard if they wanted. If Chris' main desire is to win an NBA championship, he would strongly consider it, though clearly he would have more of a role with this team.


I think they did use the MLE on Haslem just as we would have to do with Duhon.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

johnston797 said:


> I think they did use the MLE on Haslem just as we would have to do with Duhon.


You may be right. I need to go read up on Early Bird rights.


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I actually don't think Miami has used their MLE yet. They used Early Bird rights to sign Haslem, and I don't think any of the trades they just completed use the MLE. I think they could go after Duhon as a backup point guard if they wanted. If Chris' main desire is to win an NBA championship, he would strongly consider it, though clearly he would have more of a role with this team.



That would be sickening.

But hey, we are doing it the right way....Wait and see...Patience, etc.

This kind of crap gets me even more anxious to sign back our FA's...because if we have to look elsewhere (FA) the pool keeps thinning.

The wait and see approach works good...if we keep them and get them below market value. But I don't see that happening.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

"The sky is falling, the sky is falling..."


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#17

EARLY BIRD EXCEPTION -- This is a weaker form of the Larry Bird exception. Players who qualify for this exception are called "Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA. A player qualifies for this exception after just two seasons without being waived or changing teams as a free agent. Using this exception, a team may re-sign its own free agent for 175% of his salary the previous season or the average player salary, whichever is greater (see question number 22 for the definition of "average salary"). Early Bird contracts must be for at least two seasons (which limits this exception's usefulness -- it's often better to take a lower salary for one more season and then have the full Bird exception available the next season) and no longer than six seasons. A player can receive 12.5% raises using this exception.  


Hmm, I think if you sign a player to an Early Bird deal, it does not count against the MLE. I actually didn't find an explicit answer in the **** FAQ, but as he listed Early Bird as an exception to the salary cap along w/full Bird Rights, MLE, and LLE, I don't think it would count against the MLE. The difference between Haslem and Duhon is that Haslem had been under contract for two full years.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. 

In any case, with the trading of Eddie Jones, Miami seems to be solidifying Wade's spot at the 2 going forward, which I believe is the right position for him long term. They've lost Dooling to Orlando, and I've read some comments from Damon Jones' agent that he will be looking to move elsewhere. Miami does need a backup pg behind White Chocolate.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

BTW, I'll say it again. If we lose Duhon to any team for any reason, and Marko Jaric is still unsigned, I want to go after him with the full MLE. When you have a situation where a unique player all by himself can make sense of a roster which includes Hinrich and Gordon, you go after that player. I have said for a long time now that I would have pursued Jaric before Duhon anyhow. 06 cap room be damned if we can find a really helpful player now.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Hmm, I think if you sign a player to an Early Bird deal, it does not count against the MLE.


That's the way i read it, too. 

Having Duhon would be a nice way to encourage JWill to play the right way.

Not sure if Duhon would be too thrilled about playing there. Although money talks.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

johnston797 said:


> Not sure if Duhon would be too thrilled about playing there. Although money talks.


Hard to say. It's pretty clear their team will be better than ours next year. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Heat have the best record in the regular season, although whether they will have the chemistry to defeat the Spurs remains to be seen. The Heat certainly look like a good team to play on. I don't think there's any way that Duhon will start, as I expect him to again if he's a Bull next year, at least at the beginning of the season. Duhon knows he's a huge part of what we're building here, and he knows he'll get big minutes.


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

bullsville said:


> "The sky is falling, the sky is falling..."



Good. Now I can get out of work early.

:cheers:


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Megatrade: The Chicago Bulls Connection

http://www.nba.com/heat/news/heat_acquire_walkerwilliamsposey_050803.html



> [Roberto] Duenas was originally selected by the Chicago Bulls with the 58th pick in the 1997 NBA Draft. His rights were then traded to the Hornets in June 2001 in exchange for their second round draft pick that year. He has played overseas for his entire career and won five league championships with FC Barcelona.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/8700193



> Miami came within a few errant possessions of reaching the NBA Finals in June. The argument can be made that had Shaquille O'Neal and Dwyane Wade been healthy, the Heat -- not Detroit -- would have been playing San Antonio.
> 
> Yet instead of keeping its nucleus intact for another run, Miami felt the need to go another direction, adding Antoine Walker, Jason Williams and James Posey on Tuesday as part of the largest trade in league history.
> 
> ...


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## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

I posted the other day that there's no way Jerry West would make this rumored deal of Jwill and Posey for Jones due to his contract. Man, was I wrong. I simply can not believe what he's doing trading them two off plus Emmett for an old, majorly overpaid, declining SG. I get that he liked Jones, and obviously still does, but man...

He's talked for 2-3 years now every so often about turning a few of his assets into a superstar to leave his mark on the team when he leaves. Then he just dealt some of them off for this. Ugh.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

ChiBulls2315 said:


> I posted the other day that there's no way Jerry West would make this rumored deal of Jwill and Posey for Jones due to his contract. Man, was I wrong. I simply can not believe what he's doing trading them two off plus Emmett for an old, majorly overpaid, declining SG. I get that he liked Jones, and obviously still does, but man...
> 
> He's talked for 2-3 years now every so often about turning a few of his assets into a superstar to leave his mark on the team when he leaves. Then he just dealt some of them off for this. Ugh.


Yeah, I keep waiting for new information to come out showing the Memphis got some kind of first rounder out of this as well, but thus far I've heard nothing of the sort.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

If Pax were able to add 3 quality players to our team using AD's contract, then I wouldn't mind junking the whole cap space in 2006 plan and making our move now. 

Eddie Jones has a horrible contract, if someone told me you could get Walker, Posey, and J-Will by using Eddie Jones as bait I would have thought you were crazy. 

I'm really starting to wonder what AD, Pike, and a future pick would be able to land us at the trade deadline. :rbanana:


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

ChiBulls2315 said:


> He's talked for 2-3 years now every so often about turning a few of his assets into a superstar to leave his mark on the team when he leaves. Then he just dealt some of them off for this. Ugh.


And lost Stromile Swift for nothing....

Considering they already had Battie and Gasol on that team when he showed up, it's been very, very disappointing work from the Logo.


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## Philomath (Jan 3, 2003)

I think the Heat got all three of the best players in a 5-team, 13 player trade. And they didn't have to trade Dorell Wright OR a first rounder. Unbelievable. Rasual Butler is a nice player, but come on.

Riley must REALLY want to get "more involved" now, because that roster will require a lot of careful handling. Maybe we should have known something this big was going down when the rumors about him moving downstairs started.


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## smARTmouf (Jul 16, 2002)

I have a bone to pick with those that say Walker and Jason have low basketball IQ's...

This is a great trade for Miami


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