# Fire O'Brien?



## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

I think we should. The success of this team has not been because of him. He does not light a fire under our players butts during adversity. I saw him SMILING while we were losing our lead today. We need a coach that will yell at our players, and one that can get our players pumped up after a time out or half time. If I was hiring someone, it would be an uptempo coach still. But one that actually seems to care.


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## TiMVP2 (Jun 19, 2003)

What success?


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Um, being close in every game we lost? Being .500 even though we've had a really tough schedule? Beating Boston?

what success have the Spurs had let me ask?


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## thaKEAF (Mar 8, 2004)

Well to be fair the Spurs just beat Houston's big three with Duncan, Mason, and a guy named George Hill.


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## TiMVP2 (Jun 19, 2003)

Who cares about the Spurs. We're not talking about them. This isn't the Spurs board. If you want to question our success go to my board. Anyway 4-3 isn't "success". Success is underachieving their way to the playoffs, winning a championship or beating a good team in the playoffs when it wasn't expected. Success isn't beating a team that's good. The 96 Grizzlies(or was it Raptors?) as an expansion team beat the 72-10 Bulls. One game means nothing. We lossed to crappy teams in our championship runs a lot. It means nothing looking back. Get ya mind right.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

How many people expected us to start out this good? If I was to guess what our record would be after 8 games i'd probably say something like 2-6.


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## TiMVP2 (Jun 19, 2003)

This isn't football. It's an 82 game season. Your 4-4 can turn into 14-34 easily. It's okay though because I'll be rooting for TJ Ford's team in the lottery.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Whatever.. I don't like to argue so I'm done with this conversation.


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## TiMVP2 (Jun 19, 2003)

You don't like to argue because you know you're wrong. Being 2 games better than expected isn't success. Get that garbage out of here.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

No i'm not wrong. How many Pacers games have you watched this season? We play with so much effort and are never down and out until our players get tired and O'Brien doesn't do anything about it and we lose because of it. I would never have imagined our team playing with this much heart and winning 4 games without Dunleavy. **** off you're not even a Pacer fan and don't even know what you're talking about.


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## TiMVP2 (Jun 19, 2003)

Dude come on. You know that isn't success being 2 games better than expected. I also don't see why you would want to fire a coach because he was smiling during a loss, especially when you don't know the circumstances. He could've been laughing at a joke at the bench or a sign he saw in the crowd. Not all coaches have to yell.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

I'm done talking about this, just give up okay? I bet the other Pacers fans here would agree with me that we have had success.


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## TiMVP2 (Jun 19, 2003)

I asked Pacers fan a few days after they beat the C's if they would make the playoffs. He said it was very unlikely.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

Obie's been fine. His style of play is the reason this team has been so successful. With a coach like him, you live and die with the 3 and overall dumb plays. He's the type of guy that's going to get a team to the semi-finals, but no further, and that's the point when we ditch him for someone who gives a **** about defense.

Now, one thing that has to change: Marquis Daniels shooting 3's. He's shooting 16% from 3 and still doesn't hesitate to take them, guarded or not. I thought O'Brien's subbing patterns were a little off tonight, but he's been fine thus far, and his players love him.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

they love him because he lets them do whatever they want. If he can coach a team anyone can. Anybody can go and get a sports team and tell them to do what they want when they want. That is why Marquis shoots 3-4 threes per game.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

DienerTime said:


> they love him because he lets them do whatever they want. If he can coach a team anyone can. Anybody can go and get a sports team and tell them to do what they want when they want.


Heh, you amuse me.

Do you know what the hardest thing in sports is? Getting a team of guaranteed-contracted millionaires to sprint around the court and stay in shape.

We're actually running plays this year. Not against Philly because their defense was incredible, but otherwise, this team is much improved from last year, and it has to do a lot with coaching and chemistry.



> That is why Marquis shoots 3-4 threes per game.


Marquis hates shooting 3's because he knows he'll miss them. I think Obie has some weird confidence in him, either because he hits them in practice or just because he wants him to spread the floor.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Pacers Fan said:


> Do you know what the hardest thing in sports is? Getting a team of guaranteed-contracted millionaires to sprint around the court and stay in shape.


Great point.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

So your team is doing better than expected and you want your coach fired?


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## Knick Killer (Jul 16, 2006)

DienerTime said:


> How many people expected us to start out this good? If I was to guess what our record would be after 8 games i'd probably say something like 2-6.


Start out this good? What team are you talking about? We are 4-3. That is nothing to be impressed by.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

Knick_Killer31 said:


> Start out this good? What team are you talking about? We are 4-3. That is nothing to be impressed by.


4-4. I was expecting worse, though, so I'm impressed. Not just by record, but every game so far we've had a good chance of winning.


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

O'Brien is fine for now, we'll see how things continue to go before I start thinking about giving him the boot.


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## NorthSideHatrik (Mar 11, 2003)

For the most part this team has been exactly what I . The way this team is constructed and coached is going to be an up and down season. The way we play you can expect some big upsets, but you can also expect to get beat some scrubs and blow some leads too. Pretty much all of the assumptions i've had about this team going into the season have been true.

1- We're decent at getting steals and a few blocks, but when we need a stop our defense will let us down.
2- We completely lack a go to guy in the post, though Rasho has been better than I anticipated.
3- The point guard play has gone from some of the worst in the league last year to one of the best.
4- The whole team is very good at moving the ball around and finding the open man.
5- We shoot the three very well.
6- We are the opposite of clutch. We can score bunches of points but when we need that one important basket, we'll choke.

We're a good team but not a great team. I think we'll be in the playoffs if 41-44 wins is good enough to get in.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

I actually like O'Brien. People are way too quick with the harsh judgements this year. First it was ripping on Granger when he has been an absolute beast. And now it's O'Brien? We're only 10 games into the season and have had one of the toughest schedules out of any team in the league to start the season with. I am absolutely fine with being at 5-5, the fact that we could and should have won at least 2 more games is frustrating, but also promising at the same time.

Give it time boys, the season is way to young.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

His substitutions are very questionable as are his rotations. Another thing I don't like is his reluctance to take timeouts even when the other team is on a run and our team is struggling.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

DienerTime said:


> His substitutions are very questionable as are his rotations. Another thing I don't like is his reluctance to take timeouts even when the other team is on a run and our team is struggling.


When other teams have momentum, the pace increases. O'Brien wants the pace to increase. It makes sense to never want to stall the game.

His substitution patterns, yes, a little questionable. Not terrible, though. I really do hate when Ford/Jack get outmatched.


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## Jermaniac Fan (Jul 27, 2003)

O'Brien is a great coach for a team like us. We don't have any players that really can be threat in the low post. Jim knows how to be productive without the good big men.

I like the idea of shooting much threes but that also means we should be going for the OReb a way more aggressively .


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

He does an awful job at managing the game in crucial times which is why we have lost all of our leads and all of our close games. He's an OK coach, but I doubt that we would ever by anything special with him here, I mean his style of play is fun to see, and the players seem to love it, but I'll take a defensive minded coach over him any day of the week!


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## Hail Yinka (Jul 3, 2006)

o'brien shouldve never been hired and carlisle never fired

the pacers just arent good. thats what happens when reggie retires, JO has injuries, and you trade jackson/harrington for murphy/bumleavy


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

Hail Yinka said:


> o'brien shouldve never been hired and carlisle never fired



:clap:


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

I'm starting to literally dispise O'Brien. Today against the Cavaliers in a blowout loss, Stephen Graham got way too many minutes (26). Sure he is older and maybe slightly better at this stage than Rush, but Rush is young and needs experience. O'Brien is just not a head coach. A good offense coordinater, sure, but not a head coach of a NBA team. his rotations are terribe, and he just can not motivate a team the way a coach should. That's mostly what coaching is about other than the Xs and Os. A coach should be able to know when to take a timeout (O'Brien doesn't) and should be able to motivate players if the team is tired. He never has the team pumped up after a timeout or after halftime. He is just not a coach. I hope to God that him and Larry aren't friends to the point where Larry doesn't want to fire him. Larry needs to quit hiring friends.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

DienerTime said:


> I'm starting to literally dispise O'Brien. Today against the Cavaliers in a blowout loss, Stephen Graham got way too many minutes (26). Sure he is older and maybe slightly better at this stage than Rush, but Rush is young and needs experience.


Rush has been getting experience and Graham hasn't. I didn't watch the game, but from the boxscore, Graham looks like he had the best game of any player on the team except Troy Murphy, and we were only minus two with Graham on the floor. Maybe Rush was hurt or something.



> A coach should be able to know when to take a timeout (O'Brien doesn't)


I've told you this before. O'Brien's not Rick Carlisle. He's not going to take a timeout every time something wrong happens and completely stop the flow of the game unless it's absolutely necessary. Fast runs mean a frantic pace, generally, and that's what we want.



> He never has the team pumped up after a timeout or after halftime.


What's your evidence? Do you see them in the locker room? I doubt any teams in the league ever run out for the post-halftime shootaround doing high five's and chest bumps.


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## NorthSideHatrik (Mar 11, 2003)

DienerTime said:


> I'm starting to literally dispise O'Brien. Today against the Cavaliers in a blowout loss, Stephen Graham got way too many minutes (26). Sure he is older and maybe slightly better at this stage than Rush, but Rush is young and needs experience. O'Brien is just not a head coach. A good offense coordinater, sure, but not a head coach of a NBA team. his rotations are terribe, and he just can not motivate a team the way a coach should. That's mostly what coaching is about other than the Xs and Os. A coach should be able to know when to take a timeout (O'Brien doesn't) and should be able to motivate players if the team is tired. He never has the team pumped up after a timeout or after halftime. He is just not a coach. I hope to God that him and Larry aren't friends to the point where Larry doesn't want to fire him. Larry needs to quit hiring friends.


I think part of the problem is that you think we're better than we really are. When 100% healthy this is a .500 team. Our second best scorer, (and maybe also second best player) has been out all season and as a result we're playing sub .500 ball. The way we play lets us get some wins we shouldn't (Based on talent) but at the same time it also will get you upset. If we can get a healthy Dunleavy and find a legit big man down low we could start playing .600 ball the rest of the way, but until then just relax. I think we're where our talent level matches.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

If we had a coach as energized as our young team is this team would be better. This team doesn't need an old man that looks bored half the time. We need a good young coach that is as energetic as they are. Someone who shouts, someone who will get our team re energized after the first half. Someone that can get a team going during a time out. O'Brien does none of that and isn't even a good coach anyway.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

DienerTime said:


> If we had a coach as energized as our young team is this team would be better. This team doesn't need an old man that looks bored half the time. We need a good young coach that is as energetic as they are. Someone who shouts, someone who will get our team re energized after the first half. Someone that can get a team going during a time out. O'Brien does none of that and isn't even a good coach anyway.


I'm still not willing to give up on O'Brien. I see a lot of bad habits developing with our players...sadly, especially TJ Ford. I think the biggest factors to whether we win or lose are TJ Ford and Rasho. As silly as it sounds, those two tend to hold the key to whether we win or lose. TJ has a huge load on his shoulders to lead this team, and he hasn't been doing it consistently. And yes, when Rasho plays well he really helps this team excell...he is definitely our unsung hero in my book. But neither of them do the good things consistently enough. If those two played to their potential every night we would be fine. Granger will always be there for offense, Murphy has been solid in what he does, and Quise has been a constant source of energy. I'm not ready to blame O'Brien yet. Graham has been getting too many minutes recently yes, and Jack has had too big a roll at the end of games, but I'm just not ready to shift the blame on O'Brien yet.


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## D_Granger33 (Dec 5, 2008)

I don't think we should fire O'Brien just yet, but if we don't finish the season at least .500, it might be a possibility. We know this team is capable of beating good opponents, such as the Celtics and Lakers, but all of the other games we just haven't been able to show it. Hopefully O'Brien can turn things around and the Pacers could still have a shot at the playoffs.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Welcome to the forums! Great to have a new Pacer fan around.


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## Jermaniac Fan (Jul 27, 2003)

I love O'Brien's offensive system. That's pretty similar to the system I would like to bring in to the team I'm coaching. I still think Pacers should be fighting for orebs little bit more.


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## Gonzo (Oct 14, 2004)

Why does the blame always get put on the coach? I really like the type of offense that O'Brien has brought over, our defense sucks, but overall I'm happier with a faster paced offense. Lets wait for everyone to get healthy before we start blaming the coaching staff.


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## Redeemed (Feb 2, 2008)

Problem is we aren't winning with this offense. We have the pieces but O'Brien doesn't use them right. I'm just going to be happy to get Dunleavy back because he will really add to this team. We'll see more small ball but we should be able to score better. I wonder how a TJ/Daniels/Dun/Granger/Murphy lineup would do occasionally (not starting). If we really need some scoring that is a really good lineup (though I wouldn't reccomend using it alot).


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## BDB (Dec 19, 2006)

I haven't followed Indy this year but the offense; I'm assuming Jim O'Brien drew it up; is impressive.
Granger is 6th in the league in scoring, Rush and Hibbert are rookies, and Diener is balling.
Add a draft pick and you're set.


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## Gonzo (Oct 14, 2004)

DienerTime said:


> Problem is we aren't winning with this offense.


I would blame it on the defense more than the offense, we're scoring a lot this year, but we're also giving up a lot of points. I don't think your idea of offense (scoring 130 points a game) is very probable. 

Maybe playing Travis Diener is what O'Brien is doing wrong.


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## btyler (May 4, 2005)

Box Man said:


> Maybe playing Travis Diener is what O'Brien is doing wrong.


QFT.


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