# Realistic "Triangle-Point Guards"



## Afro (Jul 19, 2005)

Damn, where is the thread for our biggest problem?

Player profile:

First of all X has to be tall, at least 6'3''. His defense needs to be good, not decent, but good or very good. He should be able to handle or lock-down fast PGs like Tony Parker or Mike Bibby and also be strong enough for Chauncey Billups.
In the offense he should be able to hit the wide-open jumper which are made possible by Kobe and Odom. There's no need of a big-time scorer. 
X shouldn't be a star, because the Lakers should be able to get him. Maybe an unproven talent or someone who needs a "second chance".
X should to what he's told. Should not complain about the amount of shots he gets. X shouldn't be Shaq's friend or relative or someone close to the "Big Krispy Krem".

His is exactly the point guard the Lakers need.

Now, how many X's do I know?

*Boris Diaw/Atlanta - his guy is great. Pretty tall, so athletic, very good defense against 1,2,3; in the offense he's too "shy", shot = unknown ^^
--> I'd trade the Miami 1st Rounder for him. Better (for LA): Brian Cook+two 2nd Rounder

*Jason Hart/Charlotte - 6'3'', good year in Charlotte, was very good when he started before Brevin Kinght (2nd Assists) came. Good defense.

*Jeff McInnis/no team - 6'3", pretty good offensive player, can shoot the ball, last years defense wasn't that good because the Cavs' teamdefense was ugly, but he can defend (Last year Kobe's D also wasn't that good, only sometimes: Baron Davis, Michael Redd)

*Jalen Rose/Toronto - 6'7", the ideal triangle-PG, defense (see McInnis)
Phil Jackson would love him. Very good fit if he doesn't complain about shots.

*X - any other oppotunities? Just post.


----------



## Drk Element (Nov 10, 2004)

umm.... welcome to the site?


----------



## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Jalen would be awesome but I don't think they're gonna waive him. He's a good shooter and would hit open threes. Kinda like Sarunas Jaskevicius. He's really versatile too. We won't go far with the front court we have. With Jalen we'd have a great backcourt and great size and rebounding at 1, 2, and 3.


----------



## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

Von Waffer


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

LamarButler said:


> Jalen would be awesome but I don't think they're gonna waive him. He's a good shooter and would hit open threes. Kinda like Sarunas Jaskevicius. He's really versatile too. We won't go far with the front court we have. With Jalen we'd have a great backcourt and great size and rebounding at 1, 2, and 3.


I don't see Jalen landing in LAL. He isn't going to be cut to start with lol but I think he has stated he wants to finish his career closer to home if Toronto isn't the place.


----------



## clien (Jun 2, 2005)

> Damn, where is the thread for our biggest problem?


theres threads all over this forum about our pg situation---but this is deserving of a new thread any ways
I personally would love jalen rose on this team, he'd fit in nicely imo, good shot, tall, can post guys up well.. But there are alot of people opposed to getting him *if* he is waived, b/c the main strength we would like to have for a pg is defense, and jalen isnt the most enthusiastic defender, but i do think his D is alittle under-rated


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

clien said:


> theres threads all over this forum about our pg situation---but this is deserving of a new thread any ways
> I personally would love jalen rose on this team, he'd fit in nicely imo, good shot, tall, can post guys up well.. But there are alot of people opposed to getting him *if* he is waived, b/c the main strength we would like to have for a pg is defense, and jalen isnt the most enthusiastic defender, but i do think his D is alittle under-rated


His D isn't to shabby but he would have major trouble with smaller quick 1s


----------



## Mrdectown (May 28, 2005)

Drk Element said:


> umm.... welcome to the site?



You know? i'm all hey how you doin nice to meet ya lol. but uh welcome. i really think wafer is gonna do some damage. we know phil is not gonna wanna play him much but i think he is gonna make phil put him in because of his talent. i can see if now:

Jim gray: Von, you have pretty much taken over this game whats going on?

Von wafer: Ugh my wrist is so sore from 3's because i hit so many.

(lil anchor man humor lol)


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Afro said:


> Damn, where is the thread for our biggest problem?
> 
> Player profile:
> 
> ...


In terms of a triangle pointguard. Height is not a necesity. A tall guard would be preferable, but the most important aspect is that he can't be one dimensional. You don't necesarily need to run the triangle offense to need a guard who can play defense. The Lakers just need one because the perimeter defense sucks, which makes the interior defense bad as well. But offensively, you need a player who can do a multitude of things. The entire point of the offense is to counter defensive pressure, meaning that every player on the floor can become a threat at any time depending on how the defense decides to react. However, you're right that its important that the player can shoot, which is why I think that people are overreacting in terms of the Lakers getting a pass first pointguard. What the Lakers need is a guy who can play without the ball, but its also important that he can play within the offense, knowing how to space the floor and how to take advantage of the defense at certain stretches. Thats why Gary Payton sucked. He needs the ball to be effective. He doesn't slash enough without the ball, and he can't catch and shoot consistently. Jalen Rose would be a pretty good player to have, as would someone such as Marko Jaric. I on the other hand am not too fond of Jeff McInnis.


----------



## 07McCarthy (May 8, 2005)

derek anderson or jalen rose


----------



## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

anderson


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Wow... do you really not see all the threads on PG in the first page alone?

Anyways, I think the rumor about Rose wanting to take a small deal to play here started from the fact that he's basically a member of the Best Damn Sports Show staff now. But like others have said, I think they waive Alvin Williams first even if they save less money.

As for Diaw, he isn't "shy" he's plain scared to shoot. Play with him and it's 4 on 5 offensively. Phil will have none of that. McInnis thinks he's better than he is and doesn't play defense, I'll take Lue over him. Hart hasn't been mentioned, but in the triangle, again I take Lue over him. 

Lue is really a limited player, but his skills (defense, shooting) are exactly what we need alongside Kobe.


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Jamel Irief said:


> Wow... do you really not see all the threads on PG in the first page alone?
> 
> Anyways, I think the rumor about Rose wanting to take a small deal to play here started from the fact that he's basically a member of the Best Damn Sports Show staff now. But like others have said, I think they waive Alvin Williams first even if they save less money.
> 
> ...


 Agreed. Lue has not exactly been starter quality for other teams, but he is probably our best option right now for a cheap, triangle fit PG available.


----------



## DaBruins (Jul 30, 2003)

you stressed defense more than anything and i dont think either of those guys play good defense.


----------



## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

DaBruins said:


> you stressed defense more than anything and i dont think either of those guys play good defense.


 Diaw plays good defense (but has a terrible shot), Hart is okay, McInnis is rather bad, and Rose is flat out terrible on defense. I don't know why people want Jalen Rose. One basketball last year wasn't enough for Kobe, Caron, and Lamar. One basketball isn't enough for Jalen Rose. Has no one followed his career? He doesn't overdribble nearly as much as he used to in Indiana and Chicago, but he still does and still refuses to play defense.

I'll take Duhon (good defender on both big and small guys, improved jumper, RFA, most likely going back to the Bulls) or Lue. The triangle doesn't require a big point guard. That's why BJ Armstrong, John Paxson, Derek Fisher, and Lindsey Hunter played successfully for Phil Jackson.


----------



## Shady* (Jul 3, 2005)

Steve Francis.

Good Night NBA.


----------



## BleedPurplenGold (Jul 28, 2005)

If we really have to be considering pg's low on the list like Lue or Diaw, why wouldnt we just use Sasha, if he could get some defensive skills or Von or I would even take Smush over the other options. Jaric is restricted, I think Stevie Franchise would be the new ego problem if he came over and who are we going to give to Orlando? I like Rose or maybe Damon Stoudamire could fit in well for the "2 year" lakers plan. He's small but i think he would fit in well as a PG and he is a seasoned veteran. Shouldnt we be looking for a 2 guard since thats more often used in the trianlge?


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Lue might be the best option to be honest. Hes a pretty good defensive player and can hit a shot if he's open, you really don't need much more than that if your Phil Jackson. Hes just not that good.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Why would any Laker fan want McInnis? Didn't you guys get sick of Atkins with his lousy D? McInnis makes Atkins looks like Bruce Bowen out there.

On the other hand the Lakers have to do better then Lue - he's nothing more then a decent backup PG in the league and should not be a starter on any NBA team

Finally, I would love to see Kobe and Francis trying to mesh. Would each one take turns going one on one till Phil Jackson's head explodes.


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Steve Francis...ugh.

Kobe and Odom both need to handle the ball to flourish, and looking at history, Kwame Brown is going to suck unless he gets some touches, no room for Franchise here.


----------



## Futurama_Fanatic (Jul 21, 2005)

tyron lue


----------



## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

brian shaw to get his *** of the bench and back on the court


----------



## Afro (Jul 19, 2005)

Jeff McInnis is an good opportunity. His defense isn't that bad or it wasn't bad before he came to Cleveland. The whole defense in Cleveland was crap, so his became crap either. It like with Kobe's defense. Last year it wasn't as good as before, because the whole team-defense was BS.

McInnis is tall, can handle the ball and hit from mid-range and three point area, so he's a good triangle-fit.

I'd like Jeff McInnis-Tyronn Lue-combo. McInnis as the starter, and Tiny Lue off the bench to defend Nash, Bibby and Tony Parker.


----------



## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

<!--StartFragment --> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>Memphis Trade Breakdown</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl_np width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Outgoing</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jason Williams
6-1 PG from Florida
10.1 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 5.6 apg in 27.5 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Andre Emmett
6-5 SG from Texas Tech
0.9 ppg, 0.3 rpg, 0.0 apg in 3.5 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Incoming</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Chris Mihm
7-0 C from Texas
9.8 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 0.7 apg in 24.9 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Devean George
6-8 SF from Augsburg
7.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 20.4 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_gr colSpan=2>Change in team outlook: +6.1 ppg, +8.2 rpg, and -4.0 apg.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>L.A. Lakers Trade Breakdown</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl_np width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Outgoing</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Chris Mihm
7-0 C from Texas
9.8 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 0.7 apg in 24.9 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Devean George
6-8 SF from Augsburg
7.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 20.4 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Incoming</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jason Williams
6-1 PG from Florida
10.1 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 5.6 apg in 27.5 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>







</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Andre Emmett
6-5 SG from Texas Tech
0.9 ppg, 0.3 rpg, 0.0 apg in 3.5 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_gr colSpan=2>Change in team outlook: -6.1 ppg, -8.2 rpg, and +4.0 apg.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="80%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_s>Successful Scenario</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_s>Due to Memphis and L.A. Lakers being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Memphis and L.A. Lakers had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


----------



## Juan (Jun 13, 2002)

We just lost one big (Ronnie) so I don't think we should trade another one away.


----------



## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

i rather keep mihm


----------



## BleedPurplenGold (Jul 28, 2005)

so are we saying we would settle for Tyrone Lue as a starter???? Why, because he had one good game with the sixers many moons ago. Anybody can start for Atlanta. Ill take lil Damon from Portland over him anyday. Hell ill take anyone over Lue


----------



## clien (Jun 2, 2005)

BleedPurplenGold said:


> so are we saying we would settle for Tyrone Lue as a starter???? Why, because he had one good game with the sixers many moons ago. Anybody can start for Atlanta. Ill take lil Damon from Portland over him anyday. Hell ill take anyone over Lue


damon stoudemire is one person nobodys really talkin about much, i personally think he might be the best overall pg realistically available, regardless of team needs... What would yall think of mighty mouse possibly starting at pg for the lakers next year


----------



## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

hes my #1 choice


----------



## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Damon would provide great scoring punch and he'd help Kobe and Lamar alot. He is a lot like Chucky but he's proven and he's really talented. I think he'd have good chemistry, but the only problem is defense. He's probably the most talented PG we can get. Tyronn isn't as talented and isn't as good of a shooter and wouldn't fit as well in the offense. I think Damon's our man.


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

LamarButler said:


> Damon would provide great scoring punch and he'd help Kobe and Lamar alot. He is a lot like Chucky but he's proven and he's really talented. I think he'd have good chemistry, but the only problem is defense. He's probably the most talented PG we can get. Tyronn isn't as talented and isn't as good of a shooter and wouldn't fit as well in the offense. I think Damon's our man.


Defense should be a much bigger priority than offense. Besides, Lue has played in the triangle offense before and was just fine.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

This is getting really annoying. We could have had our PG in Antonio Daniels by now if we had given him a 4-5yr deal. Now time is running out along with our options.

Gone:
Raja Bell - Suns
Antonio Daniels - Wizards
Keyon Dooling - Magic
Sarunas Jasikevicius - Pacers
Jeff McInnis - Nets
Jason Hart - Kings
Juan Dixon - Trailblazers
Willie Green - 76ers

Available:
Earl Watson
Marko Jaric
Damon Jones
Chris Duhon
Dan Dickau
Ronald Murray
Gary Payton
Damon Stoudamire
Brevin Knight
Tyronn Lue
Steve Blake
Jay Williams

Marko Jaric wants a long-term deal, he's in heavy talks with Cleveland and the Clippers can match any offer, tying up a team's cap for a while, so you can scratch him off the list. Earl Watson would be the perfect fit and he would probably want to come back to LA, but the Lakers are stubborn about giving a long-term deal. Personally, I think Watson would be worth every penny of a 4yr MLE deal. Damon Jones will also want a long-term deal and I can't see him going from the Heat to the Lakers. Chris Duhon will get a 3yr deal from somebody, likely not for the full MLE. The Lakers might be able to get him for a 2yr/$10M offer, but that's a price they likely aren't willing to pay. Ronald Murray will get a long-term deal from someone, either 4 or 5 years, so that's not happening. I believe I read something about Jay Williams not wanting to play for the Lakers, so I'll take him off the list too.

That leaves...

Dan Dickau
Gary Payton
Damon Stoudamire
Brevin Knight
Tyronn Lue
Steve Blake

Not exactly an All-Star cast. We should just deal Devean George and Charlotte's future second rounder to Minnesota for Sam Cassell.

Really, the best scenario we can hope for is signing Gary Payton to a 2yr/$10M deal and Tyronn Lue to a 2yr/$3M deal.


----------



## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

:whoknows: Boris Diaw


----------



## clien (Jun 2, 2005)

how many yrs left on cassells contract?


----------



## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

just one


----------



## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

Damon Stoudamire
Brevin Knight
Tyronn Lue..........................any 1 if those 3 and ill be a happy camper


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Please not Brevin Knight. He isn't good at defense and he isn't good at offense.


----------



## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Work a three team move with NY and Toronto...

Lakers send Brian Grant to NY; George and Slava Medvedenko to Toronto; Get JYD from NY, Jalen Rose and Aaron Williams from Toronto

Toronto send Jalen Rose and Aaron Williams to Lakers; Lamond Murray to NY; Get Penny Hardaway from NY, George and Slava from Lakers;

NY send Penny Hardaway to Toronto and JYD to Lakers; Get Brian Grant from Lakers and Lamond Murray from Raps;


TO: Is better to trade Rose than waive him (by trading Rose for an expiring contract, they can waive Alvin Williams)... Slava has a big body, and George can play more minutes in TO

Lakers get a tall player in Jalen Rose which can play SF, SG and PG, an experienced PF in Aaron (while get rid of Slava) and a good energy PF in JYD... Definitely more talent to LA

NY: Brian Grant can help at C too; Lamond Murray won't be much used.


About Boris Diaw, maybe Atlanta accept a Sasha Vujacic and cash for Diaw...


----------



## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

im kinnda slow right now...whos jyd


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Lakermike05 said:


> im kinnda slow right now...whos jyd


"Junkyard Dog" Jerome Williams.


----------



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

There is no way the Lakers are dumb enough to take Jerome Williams' contract. We are conserving cap here. I believe Rose is signed for 3 years too, so we wouldn't be interested. The only way we'd take Rose would be if he was released by Toronto and signed a 2yr/$10M deal with us.


----------



## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

Drewbs said:


> "Junkyard Dog" Jerome Williams.



ooo aight thnx


----------



## Bron_Melo_ROY (Apr 12, 2004)

I like Earl Watson as the starting PG.


----------



## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Damian Necronamous said:


> There is no way the Lakers are dumb enough to take Jerome Williams' contract. We are conserving cap here. I believe Rose is signed for 3 years too, so we wouldn't be interested. The only way we'd take Rose would be if he was released by Toronto and signed a 2yr/$10M deal with us.


Jalen contract expires after next season. And you can swap JYD for Eric Snow if you want another PG.


----------



## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

I want Lue now.


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

I also think Lue is the best option. People, stop looking at just talent, and remember how bad our perimeter defense was last season. We NEED someone who can man up at the PG position.


----------



## West44 (Jun 29, 2005)

Stoudamire's signing with Memphis.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3288811


----------

