# Bogans and Hayes need to be brought back



## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

Feels like I'm stating the obvious, but after letting go of so many shooters the past year (Padgett, James, Barry) it's clear that this team doesn't exactly know what it needs. Sure Bogans shot is still suspect but when his feet are planted it's a good bet to go in. Very astute passer and defender, underrated court vision for a guy known for being a big body. Hayes has done nothing but impress when he has been given minutes, and does a great job playing off of Yao.

Roland Ratings, only 4 +ve players:

<table bgcolor="#cccccc" border="0" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td align="left"> Ming</td> <td><center> 44%</center></td> <td><center> 25.2</center></td> <td><center> 11.6</center></td> <td bgcolor="#efefef"><center> +13.6</center></td> <td><center> +3.4</center></td> <td><center> -5.0</center></td> <td bgcolor="#efefef"><center> +8.3</center></td> <td bgcolor="#99ff00"><center> +12.1</center></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td align="left"> McGrady</td> <td><center> 59%</center></td> <td><center> 23.6</center></td> <td><center> 14.2</center></td> <td bgcolor="#efefef"><center> +9.4</center></td> <td><center> +1.0</center></td> <td><center> -4.5</center></td> <td bgcolor="#efefef"><center> +5.5</center></td> <td bgcolor="#99ff00"><center> +8.3</center></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td align="left"> Hayes</td> <td><center> 11%</center></td> <td><center> 19.2</center></td> <td><center> 14.4</center></td> <td bgcolor="#efefef"><center> +4.8</center></td> <td><center> +10.6</center></td> <td><center> -2.8</center></td> <td bgcolor="#efefef"><center> +13.4</center></td> <td bgcolor="#99ff00"><center> +7.2</center></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td align="left"> Bogans</td> <td><center> 7%</center></td> <td><center> 13.9</center></td> <td><center> 13.6</center></td> <td bgcolor="#efefef"><center> +0.3</center></td> <td><center> +5.1</center></td> <td><center> -1.8</center></td> <td bgcolor="#efefef"><center> +6.9</center></td> <td bgcolor="#99ff00"><center> +2.1</center></td></tr></tbody> </table> 
Fundamentally sound players who make the team better. That along with the progress of Yao has been the sole bright spot of the season for me. This team has become sort of discombobulated with all the player movement over the last year and is struggling for an identity with TMac's issues. We need to keep some familiar players around our stars and build up the chemistry on this team.

Luther is a work in progress but needs to get over the rookie hump and start hitting three's again. Otherwise I would prefer Salim Stoudamire or Eddie House over him. With his limited athleticism and court vision I wonder if he's really worth keeping when his value is pretty high right now. However you can never underestimate a guy with a work ethic like Luther, so I would lean towards keeping him.

Swift is the only guy who doesn't seem to have a spot on this team.


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## sherwin (Mar 21, 2005)

Chuck Hayes definitely needs to come back. The guy just seems to be everywhere on the court.


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## jworth (Feb 17, 2006)

You gotta love a 6'5" - 6'6" guy that cleans the glass as well as Hayes.

And Bogans is solid as well.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

apparently jvg thinks hayes has some holes in his game or isnt smart enough or something.

i dont want to pretend like i know more than jvg, but this team is just better with chuck out there. he is tough, he rebounds, he gets good positioning, moves without the ball. who cares if he is slow getting back on D, i would rather his slightly delayed presence than howard just standing there while the penetrator gets an uncontested lay-up.


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## CrackerJack (Jul 2, 2005)

god juwan howard and stromile swift are uselss, i just realized that chuck hayes is easily our best power forward and if we get rid of this young kid im gonna beat down on someone


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## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

Mr. Roger's Cardigan said:


> Sure Bogans shot is still suspect but when his feet are planted it's a good bet to go in. Very astute passer and defender, underrated court vision for a guy known for being a big body.


Hang onto that guy. Not all players are the same of course, but that is exactly how Raja Bell started out. He couldn't hit a thing. Now, when his feet are set, the guy is money. He still misses bad when he shoots off balance or out of rhythm, but otherwise he's been great offensively. He's continually improved his set stroke, and it's paying off for him. Now he earns so much respect on the perimeter that he is learning to put it on the floor and go in for easy layups.


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## Jamez52637 (May 3, 2005)

CrackerJack said:


> god juwan howard and stromile swift are uselss, i just realized that chuck hayes is easily our best power forward and if we get rid of this young kid im gonna beat down on someone


Okay Jho might not be Top, or good, or okay PF, but he is the only PF on the team that can hit that mid-range jump, which gives Yao more room inside. He has hit some clutch shot for us, and he does play hard, (he can't help it that he's slow, old, and have the same veritcal leap as Yao)

But yes, I think Hayes is doing great for us when he is on the floor, love his energy and he is def our best clean up man, too bad he's only 6'5 or 6'6, maybe we can give him some of the growth drug and get another 3 inch, then we will have our Otis back!


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## Demiloy (Nov 4, 2005)

Note- Chuck Hayes rebounding rate is 34.5. Camby's is 36.7. So he's not that far behind Camby.


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

I like Bogans' game (so far). Hayes looks good, too, but we really don't know what he's like defensively. A lot of guys can play well in spurts. But yeah, you can't keep changing the roster. It worked last season, but that squad just happened to have freakishly good chemistry. It was luck. We like to call ourselves contenders when healthy, but all contenders have a solid core. Guys who you're not always on the lookout to replace. Soon we're going to have to replace Howard and Wesley.

When Rafer Alston came, I was glad because I thought we were getting a reliable volume three-point shooter. But he hasn't been playing up to scratch. He's been getting wide open looks. NBA players who can't finish and who play ordinary defense have to be able to hit those consistently.



Demiloy said:


> Note- Chuck Hayes rebounding rate is 34.5. Camby's is 36.7. So he's not that far behind Camby.


Are you sure? Dennis Rodman's peak RR was 29.7.


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## Demiloy (Nov 4, 2005)

> Are you sure? Dennis Rodman's peak RR was 29.7.


Chuck Hayes page
Marcus Camby page

Actually, Camby's is only 35.7. But it's there.


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## HayesFan (Feb 16, 2006)

I was re-watching the 76er's game last night and even I saw a couple of things that my boy Hayes can improve on... on the other hand... he has always been tenacious and a hard worker.. no matter who or where he is playing. 

I can totally see Chuck and Yao getting used to one another and working like Chuck did with Erik Daniels at UK. In that situation they were both undersized, but they played the high low passing game inside like no body's business. Plus it seems that Chuck and Yao both have the same sort of work ethic, so I can see the two of them becoming friends.

Keith will improve in the problems he has the more he gets used to this system and team. He can come of screens and hit jumpers, but he is much better with a set shot. 

I seriously hope that they both do stay in Houston. I also hope that Fitch gets the chance to show what he can do. You all say you like the energy that Keith and Chuck give to the game.. Fitch has the same sort of energy. That's when it was fun to watch the Cats! :-D


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

Agreed, both guys have surpassed expectations and should be given a future with the team.


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## Pasha The Great (Apr 9, 2005)

brought back? Have they been cut???

Im hoping you mean they need more playing time, and I agree with you on that but it seems that JVG is starting Wesley and Howard over Bogans and Hayes is because hes most likely worried that they wont beable to keep up the good work or might end up like Luther Head and go through a huge slump. 

I bet by next year the two go them will be huge on this team.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

Pasha The Great said:


> brought back? Have they been cut???
> 
> Im hoping you mean they need more playing time, and I agree with you on that but it seems that JVG is starting Wesley and Howard over Bogans and Hayes is because hes most likely worried that they wont beable to keep up the good work or might end up like Luther Head and go through a huge slump.
> 
> I bet by next year the two go them will be huge on this team.


if swift was healthy, hayes would still be buried on the bench. gumby doesnt like giving him minutes, he does it outta necessity.


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## HayesFan (Feb 16, 2006)

Pimped Out said:


> if swift was healthy, hayes would still be buried on the bench. gumby doesnt like giving him minutes, he does it outta necessity.


Why is that? Does anyone have an idea? Its not like he has an attitude, or makes huge mistakes when he's on the court. I am sure there is a reason... I would just like to know what it is... or what yall think it is.


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## Pasha The Great (Apr 9, 2005)

when u pay a player 5mill a year youd like to get his moneys worth.


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

Demiloy said:


> Chuck Hayes page
> Marcus Camby page
> 
> Actually, Camby's is only 35.7. But it's there.


That's actually not rebound rate. Rebound rate is an approximation of the percentage of rebounds that a player grabs while he is on the floor. But I agree with your point that Hayes has been terrific on the boards so far.


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## cteddo (Mar 8, 2006)

I am trying to understand why Hayes only gets a couple minutes after showing how effective he can be, and how his hussle and energy has been contagious...... to a team that was heading for a dismal season at best. Bogans must shoot better... he has always been a streak shooter and should be played accordingly


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## HayesFan (Feb 16, 2006)

cteddo said:


> I am trying to understand why Hayes only gets a couple minutes after showing how effective he can be, and how his hussle and energy has been contagious...... to a team that was heading for a dismal season at best. Bogans must shoot better... he has always been a streak shooter and should be played accordingly


You and me both.. and here I thought I was just biased and being irrational. He works hard when he's on the floor, but to get only 47 seconds of playing time in the first half... and half that amount in the second half?? 

Maybe JVG is smarter than I am but I haven't seen any reason why he shouldn't get more minutes.

Keith is a better set shooter. When he has his feet planted he rarely misses. He doesn't do as well off screens, which is something that JVG needs to realize and create an offense that is based around that (though I don't see that happening) for when McGrady is out with back issues. McGrady shoots well on the curl off the screen, so that is the only thing that seems to be available for Keith in this offense. At least that is how it seems to me... he did take a couple of set shots in the last game.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

HayesFan said:


> You and me both.. and here I thought I was just biased and being irrational. He works hard when he's on the floor, but to get only 47 seconds of playing time in the first half... and half that amount in the second half??
> 
> Maybe JVG is smarter than I am but I haven't seen any reason why he shouldn't get more minutes.
> 
> Keith is a better set shooter. When he has his feet planted he rarely misses. He doesn't do as well off screens, which is something that JVG needs to realize and create an offense that is based around that (though I don't see that happening) for when McGrady is out with back issues. McGrady shoots well on the curl off the screen, so that is the only thing that seems to be available for Keith in this offense. At least that is how it seems to me... he did take a couple of set shots in the last game.


so keith needs to be set when he shoots while head seems better when he allowed to come off the pick and take a shot. and they seem to be doing it backwards.



and welcome to the site cteddo


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

Pasha The Great said:


> brought back? Have they been cut???
> 
> Im hoping you mean they need more playing time, and I agree with you on that but it seems that JVG is starting Wesley and Howard over Bogans and Hayes is because hes most likely worried that they wont beable to keep up the good work or might end up like Luther Head and go through a huge slump.
> 
> I bet by next year the two go them will be huge on this team.


i assume he means brought back for next season and future seasons. unless i'm mistaken, neither guy is signed passed this year.


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## debarge (Nov 13, 2005)

To me this is a DWes issue, he and JHo get about 40mpg? That's too many for guys their ages who aren't the focus of your team? Robert Horry has the right idea, and Jerry Stackhouse, Jeff should try to 'maximize' their playing time by limiting it due to their age. I know WHY he plays them so much, he trusts vets more, but we've got to give the youth movement some momentum. LuHead should split time w/ Wes and Bogans. Bogans should start w/ Tmac? That seems obvious to me? :angel: He's a better defender than Wes, and is bigger/quicker. Note to Jeff: PUT THE BEST PLAYERS OUT THERE FIRST? :clap: 
Hayes, should split time behind Tracy/JHo/Stromile, Note to Jeff: GET STRO MORE MINUTES YOU PAY HIM ALOT OF MONEY??? :biggrin: Hayes should avg 15mpg until his overall game improves. 

Why the hell didnt Luther get in til the 3rd quarter? I don't recall Wes playing that well lately??? Is this like a Larry Brown rookie issue w/ Jeff? Hayes/Head/Bogans need more time and should be brought back.
Kudos again: IS THIS THE REAL STRO SHOW? I HOPE SO, BACK TO BACK GOOD GAMES AND NO TURNOVERS :clap: :clap: :clap:


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