# Blazers intrerested in Ellis



## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/14/SPJB11OM4E.DTL


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

With Roy, Fernandez, and Bayless, I wonder who's playing time he would chip into. If we are interested, I'd imagine one of either Rudy or Bayless would go, and I don't see that happening.


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## Rip City Road Blocker (Jul 23, 2004)

Yeah I would wait to see what Rudy and Bayless bring. Especially Bayless could be a very similar player, at least with his role on the team. We don't even know if he could be better yet.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

SheedSoNasty said:


> With Roy, Fernandez, and Bayless, I wonder who's playing time he would chip into. If we are interested, I'd imagine one of either Rudy or Bayless would go, and I don't see that happening.



Ellis is better than both right now, but I don't think either would go....maybe Bayless, but I doubt it.

I think the Blazers would lose Webster along with a big and maybe Blake, as well as draft picks

Rudy would slide up the the 3, and Bayless would have his projected minutes cut


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## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

I'm guessing the "interest" was from before the draft. Ellis is a better player than Bayless now, but Bayless probably is going to be a better defender than Ellis very quickly. I'm guessing the Blazers interest in Ellis has died down since Bayless came to town.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

If it ever got serious, talks would have to begin and end with Bayless. They wouldn't go for anyone else. They need a PG, and would get someone who has more potential than Ellis. But it's unlikely to happen.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Dissonance19 said:


> If it ever got serious, talks would have to begin and end with Bayless. They wouldn't go for anyone else. They need a PG, and would get someone who has more potential than Ellis. But it's unlikely to happen.



Depends really. If Ellis tells them he wants to play for Portland then what other option do they really have? They can either trade him for what Portland offers, or let him play one more year and he can leave for nothing next season when Portland will have the cap money to sign him without losing anyone


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

mediocre man said:


> Depends really. If Ellis tells them he wants to play for Portland then what other option do they really have? They can either trade him for what Portland offers, or let him play one more year and he can leave for nothing next season when Portland will have the cap money to sign him without losing anyone


They wouldn't have to listen to him though. If they know he's going to leave next yr, he has to sign his tender. They could trade him elsewhere for whatever package they want. 

Having both could end up being redundant though.


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## nikolokolus (Jan 29, 2008)

Maybe it's just me, but I'm guessing that the fashionable thing for people to do around the league (GMs, reporters, etc.) is to randomly inject Portland's name into any trade rumor as a means of making it sound serious; it's no secret at this point that KP is the most active GM in sports.

I like Monta Ellis, but he's even less of a point guard than Bayless was last year in college ... a better player right now for sure, but he's an atrocious outside shooter (career 28.5%, last season 23.1% from three), which is a skill any guard that starts for the Blazers needs to excel at.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Dissonance19 said:


> They wouldn't have to listen to him though. If they know he's going to leave next yr, he has to sign his tender. They could trade him elsewhere for whatever package they want.
> 
> Having both could end up being redundant though.



If I were another team I wouldn't give up any assets for player that has said he wants to play for another team. Especially if that team has the means to sign him the following year


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Well, he's not going to say that he wants to play for only Portland though. Warriors are going to lock him up anyway, so it's all for nothing..


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

He is one of my favorite players, but the Warriors NEED to lock him up for a long, long time. The kid is special.


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## World B. Free (Mar 28, 2008)

The Warriors wont give him AND Baron up. He is staying in Golden State.


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## Balian (Apr 11, 2008)

He is an elite open court talent. Ellis excels in a system like Golden State. But when you have low post scorers like Aldridge and Oden, I am not so sure Ellis fits in. Like someone mentioned, his outside shooting is horrible for a SG/PG.

There is enough change already for one season. Adding 3 rookies, possibly 5 is change enough. I doubt KP is serious about this. Perhaps the poster above is right. People tend to throw Portland name in on most rumors just to spice things up.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Allow me to add to the chorus that is dubious about this... Ellis would be a nice fit next to Roy, and he's more ready to play now than Childress, but I don't think that the Blazers would currently be targeting him, in particular...

Ed O.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

I'd trade Rudy, Raef, Webster, 09 1st for Ellis and fillers in a heartbeat!


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## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

For the Warriors to continue to contend for the playoffs, it's a must that guard Monta Ellis and center Andris Biedrins, both 22-year-old restricted free agents, be re-signed. Ellis averaged 20.2 points per game last season, while Biedrins averaged 10.5 points and 9.8 rebounds.

"We'll get them back," said Mullin. [Ellis] and Biedrins will be back."

Source: Boston.com


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## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

If I was KP I would have interest in Ellis to. He would be great for this team and for Roy. This team is ready to win now not later on down the road.


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## TLo (Dec 27, 2006)

Nothing personal MM, but this is a weak thread.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

I'm sure lots of teams have interest in trading for LeBron James, too.

There has to be reciprocal interest in trading away the player, and that's not the case.

This just reads like the reporter needed something superficially interesting to finish the story with, so phrased a total non-event as an event. Non-event: Monta Ellis is going nowhere. Event: There are multiple teams interested in a player who won't be traded.


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## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

KP has made very clear (sort of) what kind of player he is looking for. I mean, Barbosa, Ben Gordon, the hyping of Westbrook, targeting/drafting Bayless, and now Ellis. I don't think he has any plan of getting a "true" PG here.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

In KP's world, there are no positions, only ball players.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

MAS RipCity said:


> I'd trade Rudy, Raef, Webster, 09 1st for Ellis and fillers in a heartbeat!


Ugh. Really?

No way I do that. I expect Rudy to be as good as Ellis is. Maybe not this year, but over time. Adding in Webster and a first rounder? No way.

Ed O.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Ed O said:


> I expect Rudy to be as good as Ellis is. Maybe not this year, but over time.


You do? Ellis is already on the cusp of stardom and is only 22. He has the chance to be very special and is already almost guaranteed being a star-level player.

I think Fernandez could possibly be as good, but I don't think it can be projected as the greatest likelihood. Fernandez is actually half a year older than Ellis, so doesn't even have youth on his side compared to Ellis.

To me, Ellis has greater certainty and greater upside.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Minstrel said:


> You do? Ellis is already on the cusp of stardom and is only 22. He has the chance to be very special and is already almost guaranteed being a star-level player.
> 
> I think Fernandez could possibly be as good, but I don't think it can be projected as the greatest likelihood. Fernandez is actually half a year older than Ellis, so doesn't even have youth on his side compared to Ellis.
> 
> To me, Ellis has greater certainty and greater upside.


Ellis is a product of the Nellie system, in my opinion. He's a poor perimeter/deep shooter but he's been defended by shooting guards for much of his career because of Baron Davis's presence. I also don't think he's a good defender at all, based on what I've seen (although, to his credit, maybe that's a lack of emphasis on Nellie's part).

I hesitate to use the word "exposed", but I think that there's a very good chance that his productivity will dip dramatically without Davis around and it would do so even more if he were to go to another team and/or play under another coach.

As for Rudy: I expect him to be a far better three point shooter and a superior defender. Overall, I expect him to be at least as good as Ellis, even if he's not as productive (because of fewer minutes and the obvious pace difference between Nellie and Nate teams).

Ed O.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Ed O said:


> Ellis is a product of the Nellie system, in my opinion. He's a poor perimeter/deep shooter but he's been defended by shooting guards for much of his career because of Baron Davis's presence. I also don't think he's a good defender at all, based on what I've seen (although, to his credit, maybe that's a lack of emphasis on Nellie's part).
> 
> I hesitate to use the word "exposed", but I think that there's a very good chance that his productivity will dip dramatically without Davis around and it would do so even more if he were to go to another team and/or play under another coach.
> 
> As for Rudy: I expect him to be a far better three point shooter and a superior defender. Overall, I expect him to be at least as good as Ellis, even if he's not as productive (because of fewer minutes and the obvious pace difference between Nellie and Nate teams).


Well, in terms of production, I'm using PER to account for pace. Even taking pace out of the question, Ellis is less than a notch below star-level.

While his outside shooting is poor, his TS% is fantastic (and has risen year by year). He's fantastic at slashing and getting to the hoop and can hit the mid-range jumper.

I agree that he's well suited to "Nelly ball," but I don't think he's merely a product of it. I think he's a lot like Dwyane Wade, just...not as good. But a similar type of game...brilliant slasher, awful range on his shot, questionable point guard skills. I think Wade shows that that sort of skill set can be successful even with a highly disciplined coach like Pat Riley.

Not having Baron Davis around might adversely affect him at first, but I think he'll adjust. And, again, he's only 22 (he'll play next season at 23). He has a lot of room to grow, but he's starting out at a pretty high level.

I think Fernandez will be a better defender, but I've read that Fernandez doesn't have very good ball-handling skills for a guard. I think that, if true, will severely limit how dangerous he is offensively...how much he can create his own shot and create shots for others.


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## Balian (Apr 11, 2008)

Minstrel said:


> You do? Ellis is already on the cusp of stardom and is only 22. He has the chance to be very special and is already almost guaranteed being a star-level player.
> 
> I think Fernandez could possibly be as good, but I don't think it can be projected as the greatest likelihood. Fernandez is actually half a year older than Ellis, so doesn't even have youth on his side compared to Ellis.
> 
> To me, Ellis has greater certainty and greater upside.


Ellis could never be as good or deadly as a shooter as Rudy is now. Ellis is a one trick pony. He thrives in the Golden State system. He is an open court player and likes to take the ball to the hole.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Balian said:


> Ellis could never be as good or deadly as a shooter as Rudy is now. Ellis is a one trick pony. He thrives in the Golden State system. He is an open court player and likes to take the ball to the hole.


If that's "one trick," Wade is also a one-trick pony and there's no way Fernandez will ever be as good as Dwyane Wade.

Shaq was also a one-trick pony, but it was a pretty great trick.

Overall effectiveness is what counts, ultimately, not the number of tricks.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Some of you are underrating Ellis' midrange game. He's almost become automatic on that shot. And, no he's not just a slasher either. Obviously, his 3 pt shooting could use some work though.

Warriors would never do a deal that doesn't consist of Bayless. Rudy's too unproven and they need a PG. But I don't know why you'd want Ellis when you have Bayless. He has a chance to be better.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Ed O said:


> Ugh. Really?
> 
> No way I do that. I expect Rudy to be as good as Ellis is. Maybe not this year, but over time. Adding in Webster and a first rounder? No way.
> 
> Ed O.


Ellis is 2 years younger than Rudy and already a budding star. I am kind of getting sick of this Rudy hype train, I do not think he'll be THAT good.
Honestly, I doubt Rudy will be in Portland for more than 3 years. He seems like he wants way more than we can give. He's not strong enough to be a 3, he'll never start at the 2 unless Roy is out and Bayless is the starting backcourt mate for Roy in the future. I just don't think Rudy will ever start and that's what he is going to want sooner or later. Rudy will be good, just not on Monta's level imo and I think he will just want too many minutes. 
A 1st rounder is nothing next year, that draft looks like trash and will just cause more roster congestion. Losing Webster will help clear the SF log jam too.


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## Balian (Apr 11, 2008)

Minstrel said:


> If that's "one trick," Wade is also a one-trick pony and there's no way Fernandez will ever be as good as Dwyane Wade.
> 
> Shaq was also a one-trick pony, but it was a pretty great trick.
> 
> Overall effectiveness is what counts, ultimately, not the number of tricks.


Call me old skool but the top quality you expect from a guard is outside shooting. Ellis is atrocious from the outside. He is a star in a D'Antoni or Golden State system. I am guessing he won't shine in any other system because his scoring opportunities would be limited.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

MAS RipCity said:


> Ellis is 2 years younger than Rudy


He's half a year younger. Fernandez was born in April 1985, Ellis in October 1985.



> Honestly, I doubt Rudy will be in Portland for more than 3 years. He seems like he wants way more than we can give. He's not strong enough to be a 3, he'll never start at the 2 unless Roy is out and Bayless is the starting backcourt mate for Roy in the future.


Then how are Ellis and Bayless going to co-exist? You think either of them will be happy on the bench?


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Balian said:


> Call me old skool but the top quality you expect from a guard is outside shooting.


I don't agree that it is crucial. Jordan was a pretty poor outside shooter for the first five years of his career, and those were five of his greatest seasons. Even after that, he basically alternated between being a great outside shooter and a sub-par one.

Dwyane Wade is a terrible outside shooter and one of the best guards in the game (when healthy).

Being able to shoot from the perimeter is great, but ultimately what counts is total productivity.



> He is a star in a D'Antoni or Golden State system. I am guessing he won't shine in any other system because his scoring opportunities would be limited.


Why would his scoring opportunities be "limited" in any other system? Iverson's opportunities weren't limited under Larry Brown. Wade's opportunities aren't limited under Riley. Arenas' opportunities haven't been limited under Eddie Jordan. Talented scorers are given the opportunities.


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## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

MAS RipCity said:


> Ellis is 2 years younger than Rudy and already a budding star. I am kind of getting sick of this Rudy hype train, I do not think he'll be THAT good.
> Honestly, I doubt Rudy will be in Portland for more than 3 years. He seems like he wants way more than we can give. He's not strong enough to be a 3, he'll never start at the 2 unless Roy is out and Bayless is the starting backcourt mate for Roy in the future. I just don't think Rudy will ever start and that's what he is going to want sooner or later. Rudy will be good, just not on Monta's level imo and I think he will just want too many minutes.
> A 1st rounder is nothing next year, that draft looks like trash and will just cause more roster congestion. *Losing Webster will help clear the SF log jam too*.


Wait, Webster, Outlaw and Batum constitute a "log jam" now? That's two young players, one of whom played most of his minutes at PF last season, and a rookie drafted 25th. Sure Roy might play SF _some_ this year, but not that much. And Fernandez, at (roughly) 6'5" and 170 would get worked as a SF... but then you don't even have him on the roster at that point.

I could maybe see a trade like what you're proposing happening (though I wouldn't do it) but I think, with a 15 man roster, saying the Blazers have a log jam at SF is inaccurate.


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## Balian (Apr 11, 2008)

Minstrel said:


> I don't agree that it is crucial. Jordan was a pretty poor outside shooter for the first five years of his career, and those were five of his greatest seasons. Even after that, he basically alternated between being a great outside shooter and a sub-par one.
> 
> Dwyane Wade is a terrible outside shooter and one of the best guards in the game (when healthy).
> 
> ...


LOL ...are you actually comparing a 6'3" combo guard in Ellis to that of 6'6" Jordan???? Are you serious? Jordan can post ....Does Ellis even have a post up game? Although Jordan outside shooting was not good at the beginning of his career, it was much better than Ellis in his latter years.

D Wade is a different player than Ellis. Wade is bigger and stronger. Wade outside shooting, although not deadly, is better than Ellis. Ellis is a good player but stop with the ludicrous comparisons. He is no D Wade or Jordan.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Balian said:


> LOL ...are you actually comparing a 6'3" combo guard in Ellis to that of 6'6" Jordan????Are you serious? Jordan can post ....Does Ellis even have a post up game?


So, your "old skool" definition of a guard is he MUST be a great outside shooter....OR...post up? But...being a slasher and mid-range shooter isn't sufficient.

Not a very clear or logical position, in my opinion. In addition, Jordan didn't post up at the start of his career. He was almost exclusively a slasher and mid-range shooter. His post up game came later, partially to compensate for losing quickness as he got older.



> Although Jordan outside shooting was not good at the beginning of his career, it was much better than Ellis in his latter years.


Those years when he didn't shoot well from the outside were among his most productive ever. And even later in his career, some seasons he was just as bad as Ellis.



> D Wade is a different player than Ellis. Wade is bigger and stronger. Wade outside shooting, although not deadly, is better than Ellis.


Wade plays almost exactly the same style. And no, his outside shooting is not better than Ellis'.

Wade's career three-point percentage: .258
Ellis' career three-point percentage: .285



> Ellis is a good player but stop with the ludicrous comparisons. He is no D Wade or Jordan.


I'm not comparing them in terms of talent. I'm pointing out that outside shooting is not crucial to being an excellent guard.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

The thing I would actually be interested to see is how he responds with a defensive minded coach asking him to actually play defense. I think Ellis could be a good defender if pushed that direction, but it would take a lot of work.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Minstrel said:


> He's half a year younger. Fernandez was born in April 1985, Ellis in October 1985.
> 
> 
> 
> Then how are Ellis and Bayless going to co-exist? You think either of them will be happy on the bench?


a3 guard rotation would be fine. Roy and Ellis getting 35 a night, leaves 26 a night for Bayless.
It also preserves the players for the postseason, ala San Antonio style.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

MAS RipCity said:


> a3 guard rotation would be fine. Roy and Ellis getting 35 a night, leaves 26 a night for Bayless.
> It also preserves the players for the postseason, ala San Antonio style.


I don't think you can say Fernandez wouldn't accept that and bolt, but Bayless would accept it. If anything Bayless seems more "I want to be the man."


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

You never know, honestly, to get Monta..I'd trade either Bayless or Rudy (if the one leftover from the trade wants out, then we can find him a home and package him to get another piece)..
Monta is the same draft year as Martell and he is just insane. Midrange is automatic, lightning quick, and a great slasher.
I am curious as to what GSW would want in a S&T...


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

MAS RipCity said:


> Monta is the same draft year as Martell and he is just insane. Midrange is automatic, lightning quick, and a great slasher.


No arguments. I think he's a great talent. Fairly amazing that Golden State got two of the greatest second-round hits ever within a few years of each other...Gilbert Arenas and Monta Ellis.



> I am curious as to what GSW would want in a S&T...


I don't think Golden State is at all interested in dealing Ellis, which was actually stated in this "rumour." Nelly Ball requires a lightning quick, talented scoring and play-making guard. With Baron Davis gone, they need Ellis to be that player.


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## Balian (Apr 11, 2008)

> So, your "old skool" definition of a guard is he MUST be a great outside shooter....OR...post up? But...being a slasher and mid-range shooter isn't sufficient.
> 
> Not a very clear or logical position, in my opinion. In addition, Jordan didn't post up at the start of his career. He was almost exclusively a slasher and mid-range shooter. His post up game came later, partially to compensate for losing quickness as he got older.
> 
> Those years when he didn't shoot well from the outside were among his most productive ever. And even later in his career, some seasons he was just as bad as Ellis.


My point is Jordan is the exception, not the rule. Are you saying Ellis is a transcendent player like Jordan was? And yes, Jordan was a lot better outside shooter than Ellis. At the beginning of his career, he didn't have to relay on outside shooting because he can get to the hole at will due to his immense advantage athletically. Unless you can prove Ellis is as athletic as Jordan, the comparison stops here.






> Wade plays almost exactly the same style. And no, his outside shooting is not better than Ellis'.
> 
> Wade's career three-point percentage: .258
> Ellis' career three-point percentage: .285
> ...


No, Wade does not play the same style. Ellis get out on fast breaks to get a lot of easy buckets and Wade get most his buckets in the half court sets.

Sorry, the NBA is the "what have you done for lately" league.
Last year:
Ellis - .232% 3pt
Wade - .286% 3pt


If you are not a special breed guard that comes along once in awhile( Jordan, Wade), then being a good shooter is very crucial for a guard.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Balian said:


> My point is Jordan is the exception, not the rule. Are you saying Ellis is a transcendent player like Jordan was?


No, I'm saying production is what matters, not the style of that production.



> No, Wade does not play the same style. Ellis get out on fast breaks to get a lot of easy buckets and Wade get most his buckets in the half court sets.


He's the same style of player. That Ellis gets more baskets in transition is the style of the offense. In the half-court set, he plays like Wade.



> Sorry, the NBA is the "what have you done for lately" league.
> Last year:
> Ellis - .232% 3pt
> Wade - .286% 3pt


In other words, "Let me pick my sample carefully to show what I want." Neither player is in their decline phase, so their career numbers are far more representative of their ability than a single season sample. Wade is clearly a poor outside shooter and hasn't been better than Ellis, overall.

Wade shot .171 from three-point range two years ago, and it was one of the best seasons of his career. Clearly, that was due to his "more dangerous" three-point shooting.



> If you are not a special breed guard that comes along once in awhile( Jordan, Wade), then being a good shooter is very crucial for a guard.


Iverson wasn't a good shooter from three-point range. Let me guess, special breed. Amazing how many players come along who don't come along often.

Being a scoring guard who doesn't shoot well from three-point range is uncommon, but there's no evidence that that makes their scoring ability less valuable. What matters is how much you score and how efficiently. Not where you shoot it from.


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## LOTBFan (Jul 4, 2008)

D Williams will be our 15th is my prediction.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Warriors defeat Mavs one year ago. We would like to trade Ellis for a young talented all-star. We don't want to trade Ellis for 8 role players.

I am happy that Cavs and Heat are very interested in Ellis. The only chance they can get Ellis is that they will need Bulls or Blazers to help ...

Marion will go for nothing next season. We don't want Cavs expiring contract.


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## SixPack (May 23, 2007)

Bayless = Ellis


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## Balian (Apr 11, 2008)

> No, I'm saying production is what matters, not the style of that production.


 And I am saying he won't get the same production in a not so loose style system because he is a smaller and slimmer than Wade. Hell, Wade is breaking down because of his style of play.





> He's the same style of player. That Ellis gets more baskets in transition is the style of the offense. In the half-court set, he plays like Wade.


Again, he is not D Wade nor he plays like D Wade. 





> In other words, "Let me pick my sample carefully to show what I want." Neither player is in their decline phase, so their career numbers are far more representative of their ability than a single season sample. Wade is clearly a poor outside shooter and hasn't been better than Ellis, overall.
> 
> Wade shot .171 from three-point range two years ago, and it was one of the best seasons of his career. Clearly, that was due to his "more dangerous" three-point shooting.


Why not pick the latest year? Besides, Ellis has been in the league for 3 years only and he did not play much in his rookie year. The past two years, he was pretty much a starter and his 3pt% sucks. Again, Wade does not depend on fast break points like Ellis does.





> Iverson wasn't a good shooter from three-point range. Let me guess, special breed. Amazing how many players come along who don't come along often.
> 
> Being a scoring guard who doesn't shoot well from three-point range is uncommon, but there's no evidence that that makes their scoring ability less valuable. What matters is how much you score and how efficiently. Not where you shoot it from.


Iversion shot .345% from 3pt last year and he doesn't rely and a fast break game to get his points. In no way is Ellis an effective penetrator as Iversion or Wade in the half court. We need outside shooting.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Balian said:


> And I am saying he won't get the same production in a not so loose style system because he is a smaller and slimmer than Wade. Hell, Wade is breaking down because of his style of play.


Injury risk is a concern, but not what I was talking about.



> Again, he is not D Wade nor he plays like D Wade.


Well, there's nowhere to go here except to say we disagree. Neither is using the three point shot as an effective weapon. Both attack and score efficiently by getting points at the hoop, hitting mid-range jumpers and getting to the line. Wade is just better at it.



> Why not pick the latest year? Besides, Ellis has been in the league for 3 years only and he did not play much in his rookie year.


Because their entire careers are a larger sample. Look at Jordan's three point percentage after the point that he became "good" at outside shooting. There's major volatility season to season. One season's data is a small sample and can easily be unrepresentative. The more data you include, the more representative the data becomes. 

This wouldn't be true if either player were in his decline phase...then his "prime" ability wouldn't be indicative of his declining ability. But that's not the case here...neither player is declining.



> Iversion shot .345% from 3pt last year and he doesn't rely and a fast break game to get his points. In no way is Ellis an effective penetrator as Iversion or Wade in the half court. We need outside shooting.


Iverson has shot .314 for his career, and many of his prime years were below .300. Iverson has definitely not been an effective outside shooter. And no, Ellis is not as good as Wade or Iverson, but that has never been my point. My point is that you can be effective in that style even in disciplined offensive systems. It doesn't take "Nelly ball" to make a player like Monta Ellis effective.

And while Ellis is not currently as good as Wade or Iverson, it is possible that he could end up that good. His performance is similar to theirs at the same age (22). I wouldn't bet on him ending up that good, because it's never a good bet to project a player to Hall of Fame level, but he's good enough at a young enough age that the possibility is there.

As for Portland's needs, I wasn't advocating a trade for Ellis. I was simply saying that I don't think there's any evidence that Ellis is only productive because of Don Nelson's system.


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## Nate4Prez (Jun 3, 2007)

My roommate and best friend is a Warriors fan, and as a result of sharing a place with him I have seen more Warriors games then any other team the last two years (besides the Blazers). As a result, I have seen Ellis come from being a good back up to an exceptional starter. I did not get a chance to see Wade play much this year (due to his team being on the east coast and his injuries), but I dont think there is anyone in the league better the Monta Ellis at getting to the hoop, whether its cutting through opposing players, on a fast break, or just going hard to the basket. My roommate and I would make a drinking game, everytime Ellis hit the floor we would take a drink, and he hits the floor every time he touches the ball. I dont think Ellis has nearly the shot that Wade (or AI) has, I was shocked whenever I saw him shot a three attempt, and were talking about the team that shot the three more than any other. Ellis just isnt the scorer when it comes to a set up offense, but he is a terrific scorer at creating room for himself and driving it to the basket. That being said, Minstrel was right when he said...

There is nowhere to go here except say we disagree.


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