# The Bulls Buyout E-rob!!



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/10051002.htm

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...9bulls,1,7887608.story?coll=cs-home-headlines 




well that's done. way to go pax! (well, i am pleased anyway)



> The Bulls and representatives for Eddie Robinson have reached an agreement on a buyout for the forgotten forward, according to two league sources.
> 
> Neither Robinson, his agents nor Bulls general manager John Paxson would comment on the agreement, which will be announced Monday when final rosters are set.
> 
> A source familiar with the negotiations said Robinson will receive *$10.2 million of the $14.05 million* remaining on his five-year, $31.2 million contract that runs through 2005-06.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

relief is my final emotion. So he's allowed to sign with any team now?


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

This should quiet all the haters that say Reinsdorf isn't willing to spend money to help the team.

That said, had he a good attitude, ERob would have really helped this team.


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## JRose5 (May 4, 2003)

Clackaty Clack!


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## ogbullzfan (Mar 9, 2004)

I have a feeling he will fit in well with some other team and learn to behave. What a waste of talent.


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## Kramer (Jul 5, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rhyder</b>!
> This should quiet all the haters that say Reinsdorf isn't willing to spend money to help the team.
> 
> That said, had he a good attitude, ERob would have really helped this team.


Technically, Reinsdorf SAVED money by cutting him. And, if you factor in your opinion that Erob could've helped the team, you're basically saying that Reinsdorf just cut a guy that could've helped the team just so he could save some money.

That being said, the Bulls did what they had to do (in their minds, at least). Time to move on (and watch Erob do well in Miami).


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## Chicago_Cow (Mar 5, 2003)

How much will he count toward the cap for next season?


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

My respect for eRob is at an all-time high. Clearly, if he thinks his talent is worth anything, this is the right move for him.

As for Pax and Skiles, well, I just hope the team shows me something this year.

I guess you can say that Pax just carved off $2M off next year's salary cap. Almost pays for the some-to-be-failed Pike Experiment.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Regardless of how it came to this, thank god it's done.

I'm a little worried that now we don't have much salary cap balast to trade, but it appears we're sticking with Eddy no matter what. 

Good job on the part of Pax and Reinsdorf to negotiate him down and get it done.

This


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

We just gave the Heat a high quality starting small forward to take Rasual Butler's place most likely. Shaq will be on the phone calling up EROB in no time. Funny how his nickname was EROB befcore we viewed him as a cancer, but now it makes sense because he was robbing the bulls lol.


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

Robinson should give Krause half that money for signing the deadbeat to an awful contract.

How many Krause players left? Curry & Chandler.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

We still don't know the luxury tax figure yet, do we, and we I think we also don't have a real number for Chapu's salary this year. Jay Williams' buyout figure still must be included for this year.

Does anyone have an estimate of where we are salary wise?

So the roster is set then, I think. And it looks like this:

Hinrich, Duhon, Williams
Deng, Gordon, Pike, Pargo
Nocioni, Griffin
Chandler, Harrington, Smith
Curry, Davis, Reiner


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> My respect for eRob is at an all-time high. Clearly, if he thinks his talent is worth anything, this is the right move for him.
> 
> As for Pax and Skiles, well, I just hope the team shows me something this year.
> ...


It also gets us comfortably under the lux tax threshold this year even after our other cuts and signings (Reiner and Smith).

Too bad we didn't just use that space to go after Lucius Harris or someone like that. Depending on how things turn out, we might have even been in a position to make an MLE offer next year and still have FA money the in 06. Spilled milk at this point though.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> It also gets us comfortably under the lux tax threshold this year even after our other cuts and signings (Reiner and Smith).


Are you sure? Add Duhon and Pargo to the list of people we didn't have to pay but decided to.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> Are you sure? Add Duhon and Pargo to the list of people we didn't have to pay but decided to.


Pretty sure... I keep a spreadsheet and have all those guys on there, plus the guys we've bought out or waived and I think we're only at $58.2M


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> Pretty sure... I keep a spreadsheet and have all those guys on there, plus the guys we've bought out or waived and I think we're only at $58.2M


You sir, are a dork.

(That being said, I kept your predraft camp stats spreadsheet, so what does that say about me?)

Wait, is the $58.2 an "after Erob buyout" figure, considering the approximate salaries of Chapu, Pargo, Smith, Reiner, and Duhon? Also, did I miss the actual luxury tax cut off figure?


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## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

PRAISE THE LORD!


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

2004 MIP: Eddie Robinson

:| 

After he signs with a contender/pretender.


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## Duhon Mania (Oct 30, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>sinkingship</b>!
> Robinson should give Krause half that money for signing the deadbeat to an awful contract.
> 
> How many Krause players left? Curry & Chandler.


Ehhhhh you say this like they had to be of a certain mold to be a Krause pick. Like it's their fault that the man who drafted them was fat (cause let's face it, when it comes down to it, the fact that Krause is fat is the catalyst for your animosity toward him).


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> 
> 
> You sir, are a dork.
> ...


It's true, I'm so lame. :yes:

Well, the luxury tax cut off is a bit of an unknown at this point, but I've seen a couple of educated guesses that if it happens, it might be at 58.5-59M

As far as salaries, I'm adding up this year to have:
AD $12.00 
Chandler $4.92 
Curry $3.90 
Noicini $3.40 
Gordon $3.36 
Harrington $3.15 
Piatkowski $2.70 
Deng $2.27 
Hinrich $2.26 
Williams $0.96 
Griffin $0.81 
Pargo $0.62 
Duhon $0.39 
Reiner $0.39 
Smith $0.39 

*Waived/Retired/Bought Out*- Dead money that counts against our "team salary" in the salary cap and luxury tax accounting.

Wilks (w) $0.72 
Jeffries (w) $0.90 
Williams(i) $1.55 
Trybanski (w) $1.76 
Pippen (r) $5.41 
Robinson (w) $5.10 
AD 10% Kicker	$1.23 

Which, I believe, puts us at a grand total of $58.17M


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## Duhon Mania (Oct 30, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> It's true, I'm so lame. :yes:


I certainly can second that


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## Chicago_Cow (Mar 5, 2003)

Just wondering, but how much capspace will we receive for next season? If we have any capspace, we can go for J-Rich or any sg in the free agent market.


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## Duhon Mania (Oct 30, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Chicago_Cow</b>!
> Just wondering, but how much capspace will we receive for next season? If we have any capspace, we can go for J-Rich or any sg in the free agent market.


That's what I was thinking. I noticed we received full relief for Jay Williams, but I am not claiming to know how this process works.


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

> Ehhhhh you say this like they had to be of a certain mold to be a Krause pick. Like it's their fault that the man who drafted them was fat (cause let's face it, when it comes down to it, the fact that Krause is fat is the catalyst for your animosity toward him).


I don't give a f*** what his weight is. His record after MJ speaks for itself. A blind monkey could of done a better job.

The anomosity is for continuous drafting of power forwards (and trading the best one when he finally got it right), awful trades (Brand for high schooler, Artest & Miller for Rose, Scottie for Roy Rogers), free agent signings (Robinson, Mercer, trading away the only decent one he signed for garbage, couldn't sign a good free agent), and the Tim Floyd debacle. The guy stunk, and his not being let go sooner by Reinsdorf set us back ages.

Krause and Rensdorf couldn't wait to move Jordan on and prove to the world they were the real reason for 6the championships.


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## Duhon Mania (Oct 30, 2004)

LOL 

1. You're angry (use of a swear word) because I've hit the nail on the head as far as why you don't like him. Tell me this. If the guy looked like Robert Redford and was also your father, would it be possible that you'd not only not attack him, but defend him? Say things like "well he did put the pieces around Jordan (i.e. GW Bush got a job from his dad in the 80s that he never would have gotten if he wasn't a Bush, but supporters of him always point out that "at least he didn't mess it up").....?"

2. When Jay Williams hurt himself the Bulls were in heavy discussions with Denver in a scenario that would have sent Williams or Crawford and the 7th pick to Denver for the 3rd pick and Marcus Camby. Point is.....even though it STILL hasn't been as long as the Celtics playoff drought post-Bird, we probably would be contending for them by now without Jay Williams.

3. The players you love so much that Krause traded.....WERE ALL ON THE TEAM IN 2001.....the record 17-65. Brand has still never played on a team with a winning record. Artest looks great with Jermaine O'neal and Reggie Miller. Neither of them played here. Brad Miller also managed to look great with those three and with players like Mike Bibby, Bobby Jackson and Predrag StoJACKovic. Again here, with Brand and Artest he looked rather ordinary. 

4. Tim Floyd. Tim Floyd was hired so this team would be bad enough to get us into the lottery and get the impact players we needed so we didn't fall into the Cleveland Cavaliers/Chicago Bears mediocrity trap. Reinsdorf and Krause had a philosophy of "if you're not going to contend, suck until you do." Who knew that the year they had 3 first rounders (2000) would be the worst draft ever. 

5. I cringe at what would happen if you ran the show. We'd have kept all those guys and we'd be hovering between 25 and 45 wins. Capped out. Never good enough to win. Never bad enough to get a top pick. You know.....what happens when Chicago thinks they have a shot at the playoffs every year. The masters of wasting a decade (at least we got Curry, Hinrich, Chandler and Deng out of all of that).....the Chicago Bears. They'll go .500 every other year. Unfortunately they'll never do much better than that, AND if they do, it will be used as justification for another decade of mediocrity (I think Bears people are still going around saying 13-3 over and over again to anyone who criticizes them).

Krause wanted to suffer for gold. I'll do that too. You'd rather go for fools gold. In the NBA with the CBA, once you have fools gold the only way to get rid of it is to start all over.


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## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

Holy %[email protected]%#. We were all talking about Erob maybe going down to 12 million and instead we get him to 10? Very nice job here.


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Duhon Mania</b>!
> LOL
> 
> 1. You're angry (use of a swear word) because I've hit the nail on the head as far as why you don't like him. Tell me this. If the guy looked like Robert Redford and was also your father, would it be possible that you'd not only not attack him, but defend him? Say things like "well he did put the pieces around Jordan (i.e. GW Bush got a job from his dad in the 80s that he never would have gotten if he wasn't a Bush, but supporters of him always point out that "at least he didn't mess it up").....?"
> ...


I guess if you say I hate Krause because of his weight, despite all I said, you must be right. Man was a genius.:hurl: :hurl: :hurl: :hurl: :hurl: :hurl: :hurl:


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

Did I just read that Krause intentionally hired a crap coach because it would help with the building blocks for the next dynasty? 

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

thats damn good news , and even cost us less then I thought...

ERob will not be missed (at least not by me)


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Duhon Mania</b>!
> LOL
> 
> 1. You're angry (use of a swear word) because I've hit the nail on the head as far as why you don't like him. Tell me this. If the guy looked like Robert Redford and was also your father, would it be possible that you'd not only not attack him, but defend him? Say things like "well he did put the pieces around Jordan (i.e. GW Bush got a job from his dad in the 80s that he never would have gotten if he wasn't a Bush, but supporters of him always point out that "at least he didn't mess it up").....?"


 If he was my Dad, I might be a little biased 


> 2. When Jay Williams hurt himself the Bulls were in heavy discussions with Denver in a scenario that would have sent Williams or Crawford and the 7th pick to Denver for the 3rd pick and Marcus Camby. Point is.....even though it STILL hasn't been as long as the Celtics playoff drought post-Bird, we probably would be contending for them by now without Jay Williams.


 How is this a testament to Krause? 



> 3. The players you love so much that Krause traded.....WERE ALL ON THE TEAM IN 2001.....the record 17-65. Brand has still never played on a team with a winning record. Artest looks great with Jermaine O'neal and Reggie Miller. Neither of them played here. Brad Miller also managed to look great with those three and with players like Mike Bibby, Bobby Jackson and Predrag StoJACKovic. Again here, with Brand and Artest he looked rather ordinary.


 That 17-65 team was very, very young. I have a tough time thinking the Bulls would be worse off w/ Brand, Artest and Miller vs. AD, Chandler which is what remains of those 3 all star players. 




> 4. Tim Floyd. Tim Floyd was hired so this team would be bad enough to get us into the lottery and get the impact players we needed so we didn't fall into the Cleveland Cavaliers/Chicago Bears mediocrity trap. Reinsdorf and Krause had a philosophy of "if you're not going to contend, suck until you do." Who knew that the year they had 3 first rounders (2000) would be the worst draft ever.


 So the idea was to rebuild w/ youth with a coach that has no clue?  


> 5. I cringe at what would happen if you ran the show. We'd have kept all those guys and we'd be hovering between 25 and 45 wins. Capped out. Never good enough to win. Never bad enough to get a top pick. You know.....what happens when Chicago thinks they have a shot at the playoffs every year. The masters of wasting a decade (at least we got Curry, Hinrich, Chandler and Deng out of all of that).....the Chicago Bears. They'll go .500 every other year. Unfortunately they'll never do much better than that, AND if they do, it will be used as justification for another decade of mediocrity (I think Bears people are still going around saying 13-3 over and over again to anyone who criticizes them).
> 
> Krause wanted to suffer for gold. I'll do that too. You'd rather go for fools gold. In the NBA with the CBA, once you have fools gold the only way to get rid of it is to start all over.


LOL.... Krause ^&*ed this franschise. I bet Elgin Baylor dreams of dynasties too. Krause failed for 5 years...5 years... 

BTW I am sorry your father is fat, doesn't look like Redford and apparently passed down his limited basketball IQ down to his children.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kramer</b>!
> 
> Technically, Reinsdorf SAVED money by cutting him. And, if you factor in your opinion that Erob could've helped the team, you're basically saying that Reinsdorf just cut a guy that could've helped the team just so he could save some money.
> 
> That being said, the Bulls did what they had to do (in their minds, at least). Time to move on (and watch Erob do well in Miami).


If you're looking strictly at the ~14 - ~10 mil number you are correct. However, he is paying ERob 10million to not be on this team. I'm sure we could have gotten more than 4mil worth of production out of him over the next two years, which is what I meant by Reinsdorf is willing to spend money to open up another roster spot to help the team.


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## Duhon Mania (Oct 30, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>L.O.B</b>!
> If he was my Dad, I might be a little biased
> How is this a testament to Krause?
> 
> ...


Man another internet message board poster saying something that would get his diamonds popped out in person lol. Rock on brother.

That 17-65 team sucked. Again.....what don't you get about the fact that guys like Jermaine, Reggie, Peja and Bibby aren't here. Perfect example is Brand. You could argue that he's played with comparable talent to what he had here and never a peak at what it's like to be .500. 

Jay Williams getting hurt shows you that, gee I don't know, we were only on the brink of a kid named Carmelo Anthony being a Bull. I mean I know you'd like to blame Krause for everything including how long its been since you got laid, but it's not his fault Jay Dub went Knievel on us. I guess his plan was so stupid, but I'm pretty sure Jay Dub was supposed to be can't miss and that he had people expecting big things from a Bulls team in 2003 that was only 5 full seasons removed from losing Jordan. Boston took 8 years after Bird to get back, so....

Look hate him all you want, but please don't confuse your hatred with reality. Pippen for Polynice and Rodman for Purdue outweight anything bad he did in the aftermath.

And yes I'd rather see the Bulls suck every year until they bust out 1991 Atlanta Braves style (worst to first) than shoot for .500 and watch my Bulls become what that genius McCaskey has done to the Waste-a-decade Bears. Did you know that that Bears team passed up a chance to stay young after the 2001 season and are only finally doing so now. Pretty funny they never went into full rebuilding (Suck for a top pick) until this year, because get this "they were going to the playoffs"


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## L.O.B (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Duhon Mania</b>!
> 
> 
> Man another internet message board poster saying something that would get his diamonds popped out in person lol. Rock on brother.


 If you talk this way in person, I'd call you on it. "If he were your father or looked like Redford...." lol 


> That 17-65 team sucked. Again.....what don't you get about the fact that guys like Jermaine, Reggie, Peja and Bibby aren't here. Perfect example is Brand. You could argue that he's played with comparable talent to what he had here and never a peak at what it's like to be .500.


 So you endorse having strong players around to teach and develop ,guess having Toni Kukoc and Pippen wouldn't of been better choices than Roy Rodgers and a #7 pick to develop the new talent. 

That 17-65 was designed to lose , for which I will never forgive Krause. You never set out to lose or you get the current state of the Bulls. 



> Jay Williams getting hurt shows you that, gee I don't know, we were only on the brink of a kid named Carmelo Anthony being a Bull. I mean I know you'd like to blame Krause for everything including how long its been since you got laid, but it's not his fault Jay Dub went Knievel on us. I guess his plan was so stupid, but I'm pretty sure Jay Dub was supposed to be can't miss and that he had people expecting big things from a Bulls team in 2003 that was only 5 full seasons removed from losing Jordan. Boston took 8 years after Bird to get back, so....


 Pure speculation on JayWilliam's worth, never mind ignoring the duplication of another draft pick. Drafting Brand then Fizer and Jamal then Jay was just plain stupid. 

Nice to see you slip in the personal shot. BTW my Dad does look like Redford, hence my handsome good looks. 

BTW The Celtics didn't fall because of bad management, the fact that Len Bias and Lewis died had something to do with their fall, the Bulls death was just career suicide on Krause's part. 



> Look hate him all you want, but please don't confuse your hatred with reality. Pippen for Polynice and Rodman for Purdue outweight anything bad he did in the aftermath.


 Simpkins, Caffey, Corey Benjamin, Dragon, Mark Bryant, Kornel David, Rusty Larue, Eddie Robinson and two players who I hated long before they became Bulls, Rose and Mercer far out weight getting Pippen and Rodman imo.


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## ballafromthenorth (May 27, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Duhon Mania</b>!
> 
> 
> That's what I was thinking. I noticed we received full relief for Jay Williams, but I am not claiming to know how this process works.


You sir have an awesome username!


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Duhon Mania</b>!
> Jay Williams getting hurt shows you that, gee I don't know, we were only on the brink of a kid named Carmelo Anthony being a Bull.


The only thing that Kiki said he would trade the #3 pick was KG or Chandler and our #7 pick. 

Jwill and Craw and our #7 pick was not going to get it done.


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## WestHighHawk (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Duhon Mania</b>!
> 
> 
> Ehhhhh you say this like they had to be of a certain mold to be a Krause pick. Like it's their fault that the man who drafted them was fat (cause let's face it, when it comes down to it, the fact that Krause is fat is the catalyst for your animosity toward him).


Let me see if I have all this straight. 

First, if we like Kirk, it's must be because we're white, which in turn explains to you why we aren't on the Duhon bandwagon.

Then, if some of us are glad EROB is going, it's because he was drafted by some fat guy.

Does that about sum up your views, so far?

At the risk of becoming another of your "labeled posters", all I have to say is, "Good grief"


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## FrankTheTank (Jun 25, 2004)

According to YAHOO! fantasy sports, Miami are offering him a non-guaranteed contract. erob

andhttp://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/basketball/heat/sfl-heatnote30oct30,0,4124517.story?coll=sfla-sports-heat


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## Philo (Feb 13, 2003)

Don't let the door...

Good move for both parties, hopefully E-Rob can get his career turned around. But again, why does he care, he is set for life. Ungrateful *******!


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## Duhon Mania (Oct 30, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>L.O.B</b>!
> If you talk this way in person, I'd call you on it. "If he were your father or looked like Redford...." lol


And you'd get lit.



> So you endorse having strong players around to teach and develop ,guess having Toni Kukoc and Pippen wouldn't of been better choices than Roy Rodgers and a #7 pick to develop the new talent.


What an idiot. Pippen was gonna leave via free agency anyway. Only a Krause hater would act like that was a trade and not a SIGN AND trade.



> That 17-65 was designed to lose , for which I will never forgive Krause. You never set out to lose or you get the current state of the Bulls.


Crap. The players you worship were on the field with big minutes and all the opportunities in the world. Calling that team designed to lose is the biggest indictment you could throw at the mediocre players you worship.



> Pure speculation on JayWilliam's worth, never mind ignoring the duplication of another draft pick. Drafting Brand then Fizer and Jamal then Jay was just plain stupid.


There wasn't a player anyone else would have taken in that spot but Fizer. Mike Miller nothing. As for Jamal he could have really been special if his attitude didn't suck. But Krause took huge interview precautions and Crawford never even came across to psychiatrists as the lazy selfish weakling he is.

Feel free to tell me the three players you would have taken in that first round. 



> Nice to see you slip in the personal shot. BTW my Dad does look like Redford, hence my handsome good looks.


Translation from reading internet tough guys prose: "My Dad is Danny Devito's younger brother and I look like Ron Jeremy."



> BTW The Celtics didn't fall because of bad management, the fact that Len Bias and Lewis died had something to do with their fall, the Bulls death was just career suicide on Krause's part.


Len Bias dying = Jay Williams (who EVERYONE pegged as can't miss) being not only a bust but an idiot on top of it. 



> Simpkins, Caffey, Corey Benjamin, Dragon, Mark Bryant, Kornel David, Rusty Larue, Eddie Robinson and two players who I hated long before they became Bulls, Rose and Mercer far out weight getting Pippen and Rodman imo.


Only the biggest idiot on earth would say that. If McCaskey or the Trib owned the Bulls Jordan's 1986 supporting cast would have been "what we as fans in Chicago were gonna get and shut up about getting."


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## Duhon Mania (Oct 30, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>WestHighHawk</b>!
> 
> Let me see if I have all this straight.
> 
> ...


I was talking about Curry and Chandler. Crucified when Rose was here, because after all, he's a veteran, and don't all blue collar workers get hung up on "seniority"..... Now that they are the elder statesmen in terms of Bulls tenure, everything is STILL their fault.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

Prediction: EROB will thrive in Miami, he shoots over 50% from the field, gets praised for his defense, and we don't hear a damn thing over there about him not practicing hard enough. They won't care if he spends extra time practicing or not because he will produce for them in the real games. 

He will also be a key contributor in the playoffs.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>SALO</b>!
> Prediction: EROB will thrive in Miami, he shoots over 50% from the field, gets praised for his defense, and we don't hear a damn thing over there about him not practicing hard enough. They won't care if he spends extra time practicing or not because he will produce for them in the real games.
> 
> He will also be a key contributor in the playoffs.


Prediction;

Eddie will get hurt and not dress for at least half of the season.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

I am disgusted by this.

E-Rob got away with murder.

The Bulls got Punk'D.

The Bulls did not get any better with this move and rewarded the jackhole, injury-faking, lazy, malcontent, unwilling to improve himself, clock-punching, yabba-dabba-doo and run down the back of the dinosaur, poster-child for all that is wrong about the NBA.

Nice Job, Bulls Office Spineless Wonders.


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## thunderspirit (Jun 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> I am disgusted by this.
> 
> E-Rob got away with murder.
> ...


...and this, in a nutshell, expresses my sentiments exactly. :yes:


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## Duhon Mania (Oct 30, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Prediction;
> ...


I do dislike Eddie, but if Eddie had ZERO talent and tried hard you'd be all over his nuts


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Duhon Mania</b>!
> 
> 
> I do dislike Eddie, but if Eddie had ZERO talent and tried hard you'd be all over his nuts


If that were true, I would be begging Pax to go after scrubs that work hard. This is not the case.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

TomBorewinkle;

What would you suggest the Bulls do? Keep him on the IR? What if we NEED to put someone on that IR and this clown is on it? What then? Either way, this clown is such a cancer that he is not even wanted around the damn team.

We paid him off, but at least it isn't costing us as much as it would if he were still here.

This is a good move.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Seems to me that ERob's contract next season would be a nice asset to use in a trade (expiring contract).

I used to think Paxson might have potential at making big money profits for Reinsdorf. Now I am not so sure. We're saddled with AD's contract, and we've bought out Pip and ERob - that's a lot of $millions to pay for nothing. Those are very expensive financial mistakes to have made and still kept the job.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> Seems to me that ERob's contract next season would be a nice asset to use in a trade (expiring contract).
> 
> I used to think Paxson might have potential at making big money profits for Reinsdorf. Now I am not so sure. We're saddled with AD's contract, and we've bought out Pip and ERob - that's a lot of $millions to pay for nothing. Those are very expensive financial mistakes to have made and still kept the job.


You rail Pax for AD's contract, yet how did we get AD's contract? By getting rid of Rose who's contract is LONGER than AD's!!!!

And a little clue for some here, PAXSON DID NOT SIGN E-SLOB! This was Krause's mistake, not Paxsons!

Paxson has cleaned up the mess that Krause left us with, and believe me, I was a pretty big Krause supporter. But it finally hit me how screwed up his moves have been.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

I swear, on this board, Paxson could draft the next MJ and there would still be some clowns ripping into him.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> I swear, on this board, Paxson could draft the next MJ and there would still be some clowns ripping into him.


Well, if Pax drafted MJ with the Bulls' first draft pick that year, he would have a chance. Otherwise, the haters would say that it was all luck.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> You rail Pax for AD's contract, yet how did we get AD's contract? By getting rid of Rose who's contract is LONGER than AD's!!!!
> ...


Rose can play, AD can't very well. What is the point in paying a player who can't play?


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> Rose can play, AD can't very well. What is the point in paying a player who can't play?


That was not your point. You made a point about whether or not Pax can make money for JR. I pointed out that he is already saving JR money.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> That was not your point. You made a point about whether or not Pax can make money for JR. I pointed out that he is already saving JR money.


In that case, paying EITHER Rose or AD costs JR money. Paying one of those two gets you not much on the court.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

But AD is cheaper in the long run. So in essence, Pax is saving JR money. Just like he is with E-Rob.

And really? Where was Rose taking us? Absolutely nowhere. Also, look at the type of team Paxson wants. He want's hard workers that bust their butts for the team. Rose and Marshall reportedly went to Toronto and were so out of shape, they couldn't keep up with the rest of the team. 

Is that the hardworking attitude Pax wants on this team? I don't think so.

Pax has this team heading in the right direction.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> I swear, on this board, Paxson could draft the next MJ and there would still be some clowns ripping into him.


Pax seems more likely to draft a Ben Gordon type with the 3. Not a superstar.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> And really? Where was Rose taking us? Absolutely nowhere.


Where was Brand taking us?
Where was Artest taking us?
Where was Miller taking us?
Where was Crawford taking us?
Where was Rose taking us?
Where was Marshall taking us?

The question sadly remains the same. Just change the players.



> Pax has this team heading in the right direction.


The lottery.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> Where was Brand taking us?
> ...


Did Pax trade Brand?

Did he trade Artest?

Miller?

No. Those were Krause's blunders. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD. I think many here are lumping all of the mistakes made by the Bulls onto John Paxson's shoulders.

"The question sadly remains the same. Just change the players."

If those players are not cutting the mustard, then yes. You get rid of them, rather than pay them on the possibility that they become good (as was the case with JC). And as WILL be the case if Curry and Chandler don't perform.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Did Pax trade Brand?
> ...



I'm questioning the "where did he take us" mentality... not pinning moves on Krause and Pax.

Where did he take us is meaningless... when you surround talented players with crap.

Another Bulls lotto team... except this time we're regressing... brought to you by John Paxson.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

I bet you were calling Hinrich a bust back when he was drafted, and you probably were against drafting Deng as well.

Sorry, but I think I'll wait until Paxson actually screws up before I rail him. And I will wait until this team is PROVEN to have failed before I call it that.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> I bet you were calling Hinrich a bust back when he was drafted, and you probably were against drafting Deng as well.
> 
> Sorry, but I think I'll wait until Paxson actually screws up before I rail him. And I will wait until this team is PROVEN to have failed before I call it that.


Nope... I was giving Hinrich time, even though he looked very bad at first. I was happy with the Deng pick and had serious questions about drafting a 6'2" SG.

Paxson has already screwed up. The team won fewer games last season under his watch. And this years team is less talented than last years.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> Nope... I was giving Hinrich time, even though he looked very bad at first. I was happy with the Deng pick and had serious questions about drafting a 6'2" SG.
> ...


So a GM only get's one year now? And even less than that for a head coach?

PLEASE. Dont be surprised if Gordon really does become a scorer. He has the ability to do so. I think he will prove you wrong.


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## TysonForPresident (Oct 25, 2004)

This is the best Bulls news I've heard in a while.

It isn't so much great news that Robinson is gone, or that he was a bad influence, or a bad player, all of that is dependant on your opinion and is debateable.

What makes it great is that it shows that Paxson is given a lot of responsibility and Reinsdorf is willing to listen to what he thinks is best for the team. He trusts in him apparently.

Reinsdorf is ready to listen to Pax's opinion and follow through with what needs to be done to fulfill his vision. Even if he has to take a hit to fit what Paxson believes is the right direction the team is supposed to go.

Whether it's the right move or not is debateable and remains to be seen, but few can argue that Robinson was somebody that didn't want to be here and the feeling was mutual by the Bulls.

If a couple isn't happy then end it before it's too late; with no regrets. 

I've always believed this and I'm happy that the Bulls ended the E-rob relationship before it got any worse.

It's the best for everyone involved.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> So a GM only get's one year now? And even less than that for a head coach?


I don't think Pax and Skiles are leading the Bulls down a good path. I'd like this doomed journey to stop ASAP. Fire them. Fire them now.



> PLEASE. Dont be surprised if Gordon really does become a scorer. He has the ability to do so. I think he will prove you wrong.


I suspect Gordon will become a decent player. 
The questions that have to be answered in my mind are....

1.) Is Gordon good enough to warrant drafting him at #3 in this draft? (i.e. were there better players available after him?)

The answer to these appear to be no and hell yes (deng!).

Given that...

2.) Was it smart of Pax to burn a future #1 in order to get Gordon? So, will Gordon be better than the future 1st round pick?

Only time will tell. Its tough for Paxson to look good on this, since I'd suspect the players available to Phoenix with the pick we are going to be sending them are going to be better than our 6'2" SG.

Pax fell in love with Gordon. There is no doubt that Gordon was his guy.


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## Electric Slim (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't think Pax and Skiles are leading the Bulls down a good path. I'd like this doomed journey to stop ASAP. Fire them. Fire them now.
> ...


Would it make any difference if I mentioned that Phoenix gave us the 7th pick and not the 3rd?


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## Duhon Mania (Oct 30, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Electric Slim</b>!
> 
> 
> Would it make any difference if I mentioned that Phoenix gave us the 7th pick and not the 3rd?


Probably not


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## Kunlun (Jun 22, 2003)

This is probably one of your best off season moves.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Electric Slim</b>!
> 
> 
> Would it make any difference if I mentioned that Phoenix gave us the 7th pick and not the 3rd?


Yes... I know this... but we could (should?) have just grabbed Deng with the 3. 

Pax made a trade so he could have 2 picks in this draft.... he liked this draft that much (or he just had a hard time making up his mind). I'll compare the lesser of the two players we drafted to who Phoenix will be able to get with the pick we send them. 

If the draft was held again today.... do you think Gordon goes that high? I say no way.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes... I know this... but we could (should?) have just grabbed Deng with the 3.
> ...


His workouts were great, he just came off of a championship. What more does a GM need to know? 

And DONT think of him as a bust. He hasn't even been given a chance yet. GIVE HIM A CHANCE!


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> His workouts were great, he just came off of a championship. What more does a GM need to know?


I think the NCAA is all but irrelevant... and I think Pax overvalues NCAA play.

I could fill up a page with the ineffective NBA players that were stars in the NCAA.

Who was the last player to win an NCAA title and make the all-NBA team? There are not too many in recent years.



> And DONT think of him as a bust. He hasn't even been given a chance yet. GIVE HIM A CHANCE!


I'll give him a chance. I hope he becomes a star, which is what we should expect at the 3. Maybe he's the next AI or Baron Davis. But... this mode of thinking is the same that causes people to think every decent undersized power forward is the "next Charles Barkley."


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> TomBorewinkle;
> 
> What would you suggest the Bulls do? Keep him on the IR? What if we NEED to put someone on that IR and this clown is on it? What then? Either way, this clown is such a cancer that he is not even wanted around the damn team.
> ...


Absolutely. We should have left him to rot on the IR. We have three IR slots. Not every team carries 15 players. Our team will not be significantly better or worse by carrying the marginal talent that we keep and intentionally bury on the IR with E-Rob's slot. I think this sets a horrible precedent -- Unhappy? Be a cancer and we'll pay you and set you free.

I say again -- the Bulls got Punk'd.

Horrible, horrible, rotten move.

Worse than the Rose trade. Worse than the Jamal trade. Worse than the "dismanteling of the dynasty." This buy out is, to me, the single dumbest move in franchise history.

This move makes me want to puke.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> I don't think Pax and Skiles are leading the Bulls down a good path. I'd like this doomed journey to stop ASAP. Fire them. Fire them now.


It couldn't be said in fewer words or with more clarity.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> It couldn't be said in fewer words or with more clarity.


I think that post is a joke. Paxson has had nothing but wonderful drafts, yet some want to lynch him. Amazing. Some of you guys remind me of Mr. Pink from Resevoir Dogs when he explains why he doesn't tip.

"If she put's forth the effort, then fine, I'll tip"

"And what kind of effort is that? Take you in the back and give you a BJ?"

It's obvious you guys are asking for miracles, when you fail to realize what kind of mess Krause left us with.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> 
> 
> Absolutely. We should have left him to rot on the IR. We have three IR slots. Not every team carries 15 players. Our team will not be significantly better or worse by carrying the marginal talent that we keep and intentionally bury on the IR with E-Rob's slot. I think this sets a horrible precedent -- Unhappy? Be a cancer and we'll pay you and set you free.
> ...


If we would have kept him, then we wouldn't be able to keep a man that just made the team. Whether it be Griffin, Smith or F-Will. Would you want one of them to miss their chance simply because we want to punish E-Slug? Not me. Or what if someone releases a player that can really help us out? And we have no room for him on the roster because of E-Slug?

What Pax did was smart. It was smart fiscally, and it was smart from a team standpoint.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

And TB? You see how Shandon Anderson is stabbing the Knicks in the back right now? Saying he's not injured and therefore will not be going to the IR?

You can bet your *** that E-Slug would have done the same damn thing.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes... I know this... but we could (should?) have just grabbed Deng with the 3.
> ...



Kukoc, man, you really need to take a breath and relax. Hinrich started slow last year. I think all but the most negative people here agree that he is and will continue to be a solid player. I don't think it's fair to make assessments of Gordon's future performance based on the preseason. It might not even be fair after a full season. We're on season 4 with Eddy right now, and yet there are still many who say we need to be patient with his development. I think we can give Gordon more than a couple of weeks.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

I get sick of people saying kirk had a slow start so its ok that gordon does too.

kirk didn't even play pg his last 2 years at kansas and got a viral infection during the preseason.

gordon is not even close to being in the same boat.

Gordon stinks right now not because of someone else , but because he himself is not getting the job done.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> And TB? You see how Shandon Anderson is stabbing the Knicks in the back right now? Saying he's not injured and therefore will not be going to the IR?
> 
> You can bet your *** that E-Slug would have done the same damn thing.


The Knicks should sue Shandon and force him to prove his point.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> I get sick of people saying kirk had a slow start so its ok that gordon does too.
> 
> kirk didn't even play pg his last 2 years at kansas and got a viral infection during the preseason.
> ...



I'm not saying that Gordon playing poorly is anyone else's fault. I'm just saying that sometimes people take some time to get acclimated to the league and it is premature to completely write him off at this point.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jnrjr79</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not saying that Gordon playing poorly is anyone else's fault. I'm just saying that sometimes people take some time to get acclimated to the league and it is premature to completely write him off at this point.


Gordon is a grown man , the reasons for optimism or pessimism should really be narrowed down to his play and that alone and he has honestly given a lot of reason to doubt him, I think he'll rebound and be a productive player , but at the spot he was selected and his age and relative experience he is coming up short.there are 3 guards taken in the 3 spots directly behind him that look like much better fits and a guard 5 spots behind him that looks better as well .

the scrutiny he gets is well deserved.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> Gordon is a grown man , the reasons for optimism or pessimism should really be narrowed down to his play and that alone and he has honestly given a lot of reason to doubt him, I think he'll rebound and be a productive player , but at the spot he was selected and his age and relative experience he is coming up short.there are 3 guards taken in the 3 spots directly behind him that look like much better fits and a guard 5 spots behind him that looks better as well .
> ...


It was only pre-season. Give the man a chance.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> It was only pre-season. Give the man a chance.


Amen. It's lunacy to think we know where Ben will end up based upon his preseason performance.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jnrjr79</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Kukoc, man, you really need to take a breath and relax. Hinrich started slow last year. I think all but the most negative people here agree that he is and will continue to be a solid player. I don't think it's fair to make assessments of Gordon's future performance based on the preseason. It might not even be fair after a full season. We're on season 4 with Eddy right now, and yet there are still many who say we need to be patient with his development. I think we can give Gordon more than a couple of weeks.


I'm going to give him a chance... I'm not stessed out about it. Maybe Gordon will be one of those very, very rare superstar SGs that are short. If not... bad move by Pax.

Eddy was an 18 year old high school kid... very raw.
Gordon supposedly was a seasoned product.... with an impressive NCAA pedigree. He does not get as much time, if NCAA development is worth anything.

Gordon wowed Paxson for some reason. We just have not seen it yet. 

I wonder what Paxson saw?


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

"I wonder what Paxson saw?"

My guess is he saw more in Gordon than he did those other players your talking about. 

I bet you were pining for Iggy, right? Come on, dont be shy.

After reading all of these Pax bashing posts and threads by so many of this sites "finest?", I truly am grateful that I have other options to discuss Bulls baskteball.


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## Nobull1 (Oct 6, 2002)

I think ben gordon is a dog. I would rather have jamal. 

Oh and gordon cannot guard anybody and has he shoot 50%.

This cycle with Bulls have become a nasty little loop. We get Brand and we struggle a couple of years. He gets trade because he would not stay here. 

We have Artest and Miller. They were here a couple of years. Then they got traded because of the need of a leader and a man to take the big shot.

Then we get Rose and Marshall and they stay a year. They are then traded because they are cancers. 

Jamal is let go for trash and we hope to get half the numbers from gordon.

Gordon will likely fail because his best postion most likely the pg.

Hey I just sick of tired of losing and i think the management is full of crap. They did not want to pay, Brand, Artest, or Miller who all became All Stars. 

I would not be surprised to see Jam,al become one. 
Reasons.
Name the great 2gs in the East

Michael Redd 44% solid
Paul Pierce 40%
Allen Iverson38%
Vince Carter 41%

Non of these guys are known for their defense
Jamal shot 37%. 
i feel that the two spot will be a joke this year. Hey here is another 20 win season.
sour: :sour: :sour:


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

Pssst.....

Jamal Crawford sucked. Get used to that reality.


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## Johnjo (Jun 4, 2002)

I'm so frickin' sick of this bashing Ben Gordon crap. People seriously just need to shut up. Not every player that comes out of college is a star right away. And, it still is "right away." The season HAS NOT STARTED YET! 

And has anyone that posts here actually watched the games?!?!?!?! Gordon has looked good! Every player goes through shooting funks! Other than his shots (that all look good) not falling, you can't bash him for anything. His defense against SG's hasn't been spectacular, but that isn't his fault. He is going out there and doing what he is told to do. Did he ever ask to be a SG? Probably not. 

Maybe I'm analyzing this too much but I think it's pretty safe to say that he is overplaying on offense in an effort to make up for his deficiencies on defense that it is having a reverse-effect and that's whats causing him to miss all those shots. Give him some time to relax and find his shot again and I'm sure you will all be impressed with what the kid can do. (well I'm not sure, but c'mon a college player of his caliber and style just cannot be discarded this early in the season.)


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Johnjo</b>!
> I'm so frickin' sick of this bashing Ben Gordon crap. People seriously just need to shut up. Not every player that comes out of college is a star right away. And, it still is "right away." The season HAS NOT STARTED YET!
> 
> And has anyone that posts here actually watched the games?!?!?!?! Gordon has looked good! Every player goes through shooting funks! Other than his shots (that all look good) not falling, you can't bash him for anything. His defense against SG's hasn't been spectacular, but that isn't his fault. He is going out there and doing what he is told to do. Did he ever ask to be a SG? Probably not.
> ...


You are fast becoming my beacon of hope, my friend. I almost felt I was alone with my defending this young man at times.

Thank you.


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## Nobull1 (Oct 6, 2002)

Pst Shinky and so do the Bulls. By the way Jamal is undisciplined but he does not suck.

Gordon has shown nothing. He might turnout to be a solid pro.


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## MagillaGorilla (Jul 8, 2004)

I watched all of the RMR games and I thought Ben Gordon played very well. Albeit, against scrubs, but his shot was falling and he looked pretty impressive at times. 

He just needs to step up his game and fight through his slump. The pre season was chock full of high caliber players and he'll have to make adjustments. Give him some time - it ain't like we don't have Deng!


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

The E-Slug buyout will be announced by 5pm today.

Done deal. E-Slug is a goner. And I hope I run into him here in Chicago somewhere, so I can vent my "frustrations" on him. South side style.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

Also;

It's for 11 mil, not 10.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> Also;
> 
> It's for 11 mil, not 10.


The AP is reporting it was $10M

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...1bulls,1,4348655.story?coll=cs-home-headlines


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> 
> 
> The AP is reporting it was $10M
> ...


The Score is reporting it's 11.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> The Score is reporting it's 11.


:laugh: 

I'll split the difference with you. Sports Illustrated is reporting $10 1/2M

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/basketball/nba/11/01/robinson.ap/index.html



> The Chicago Bulls parted ways with forward Eddie Robinson on Monday, buying out the last two years of his contract for $10 1/2 million and ending a relationship that's been strained since he arrived.
> 
> Robinson had two years and $13.9 million left on the deal he signed in 2001. The buyout makes him a free agent, and the Bulls agreed to pay him regardless of if he signs with a new team. James Bryant, one of Robinson's agents, said a handful of teams have already expressed interest and he could have a new deal by next week.


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