# Fight (merged)



## Buck Williams (May 16, 2004)

*Fight*

HUGE FIGHT ON ESPN PACERS AND PISTONS


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

*Whoa , huge fight at the Pistons vs Pacers*

wow!


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## Buck Williams (May 16, 2004)

this is one of the worst ive seen the fans are pouring beer on the pacers Artest fould big ben he reacted like a little girl and a huge fight broke out artest made a punch on a fan


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

WOW. A REAL FIGHT. 

WOW...they called the game.


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## Anima (Jun 3, 2003)

Artest punched a fan?


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

Yes. FULL Fight....Pistons threw beer and cups, then started punching the Pacers.....HOLY CRAP.

Fans started ATTACHING Pacers.......Artest charged a fna who threw beer at him. Stephen Jackson CLOCKED a fan too.


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## amd pwr (Jun 24, 2003)

:laugh:


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Xericx</b>!
> WOW...they called the game.



I can not believe this.. what a shock :jawdrop:


Only in Detroit.... well, maybe LA


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## Buck Williams (May 16, 2004)

This is incredably awsome i hate artest and wallace there both dirty players and will both be suspended


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

pistons fans , punks

artest was lying down - some fan tipped a beer on him and threw it at him - he went ballistic and headed into the crowd.

bout 50 people all up

someone fans are going to have some interesting stories coming back from the games

just on a side note , artest had walked away from the original foul until he got hit with the beer etc 

horrible


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

My GOD...fans started PUNCHING the players and ganging up on them.


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## Buck Williams (May 16, 2004)

i think we need to merge


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

holy crap, can't wait to see the hilights on that...


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

Wow....Artest was laying down on the table and a FAN threw beer on him from the stands.

Artest gets up and JUMPS over the chairs and lunges at the fan...fight breaks out...more beer thrown, and Jackson punches a fan...then more fans started punching players...wow...


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

Yeah, but going into the stands after the fan?????

Two wrongs do not make a right. Plenty of blame to go around in this one.

Artest and Jackson are in for some LOOONG suspensions.....

Walton was actually right - this is a low moment for the NBA.


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## Swerv (Jan 2, 2003)

Holy Crap!!! I cant believe what I just watched.

THat is SCARY


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## ssmokinjoe (Jul 5, 2003)

Damn, i wish i were there. I'd wanna get some licks in on Artest :laugh:


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Why should Artest get suspended? He did not start the fight. The League warns fans about doing this type of stuff to players and they payed the price. Of all the people why do it to Ron Artest, not only a pshyco but one of the strongest players in the league. The fans punches looked to do nothing to Artest, and he would turn and swing at them. Absolutely hilarious.


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## Buck Williams (May 16, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ssmokinjoe</b>!
> Damn, i wish i were there. I'd wanna get some licks in on Artest :laugh:


me 2 my freind me 2


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

All the ESPN guys were LIVID calling the Pistons fans NO CLASS and a WILD BUNCH OF IDIOTS.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

The main culprit in all of this? Alcohol.

The fans were liquored up. No other way they would take a swing at a 240 pound NBA player.

Fans are stupid enough as it is. Adding beer to the equation is even stupider.


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## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

Holy crud, I can't wait to see this on the 11:00 news (no cable here).

PBF


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## Mr. Chuck Taylor (Aug 2, 2004)

artest will get suspended for going into the stands, even though it was the fan that started the confrontation by throwing a beer in his face and artest was staying away from all the other mayhem....but stephen jackson is the guy who is gonna get suspended BIG TIME for just clocking a fan in the stands....oh man....I mean he is going to have to miss at least 20, 30 games I would think.....


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

Fan threw a full drink at Jackson. Dude....those fans were talking MAD trash AFTER they threw the beer but turned into little girls when Artest charged at him.


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## rx2web (Jul 27, 2004)

Unbelieveable....I'm speechless


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## alext42083 (Nov 7, 2003)

Man, those fans were just crazy.. I don't condone players going into the stands but that fan who got attacked by Artest deserved it. And he acted like a little wuss when he saw Artest come at him..
If there's any guy you don't want to mess with.. I think Ron Artest is on that list..
Then you got fans throwing beer all over the players and even the coaches?
What the... Detroit fans should be embarassed.


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## Buck Williams (May 16, 2004)

all im doing is laughing i think its funny as hell Jacksons got a good left hook (but i think patterson would beats most nba players asses)


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## alext42083 (Nov 7, 2003)

Geez, those images are just nuts on ESPN news right now..

One Pistons fan somehow got to the Indiana bench and faced up Artest one-on-one and Artest clocked him with a right hand and he fell.. Then later, Jermaine O'Neal came up to the same fan and punched him with a right hand too with full force and the fan just was out unconscious, at least he should have been.

Then while O'Neal and Artest were heading to the locker room, more than 10 cups of beers were just thrown in their direction and Jamal Tinsley had a long stick or a speaker or something and was about to go up to the stands and hit people with it.

Geez. Insane.


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## OvrTheShoulda (Feb 13, 2004)

JO got a nice lick in


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## obiwankenobi (Jan 31, 2004)

I see a lot of blame to go around...but I don't see a true solution. How do you make people behave better than their mob mentality allows?

The fans that were rushing the court and assaulting the Pacers as they tried to exit had plenty of time to think about their actions. Low-lifes.


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## OvrTheShoulda (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ssmokinjoe</b>!
> Damn, i wish i were there. I'd wanna get some licks in on Artest :laugh:


yeah....real cool dude. the word that comes to my mind is *****.


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

artest handled it fine up until the fans crossed the line , wallace flipped out over the foul and revved the crowd up - the espn guys said wallace will get done big time and artest somewhat - in all of this , where was the security ?


larry was spazzing at the crowd too , what an embarassment for the game :/


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## OG (Aug 12, 2003)

What's with the hand between Artest's legs?


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>OG</b>!
> What's with the hand between Artest's legs?


Man I knew Artest was a little loco, but when did he start eating people?


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

The arm is behind to the left of him 

You high school kids that are into the violence... well, I blame your parents really.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

I've lost a HUGE amount of respect for the Pistons.....and their fans. I was cheering them on last year, but this is just sad. 

I'm thinking of giving my Ben Wallace jersey away...shameful. 

I'm buying a Jermaine O'Neal jersey.


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## Hype #9 (Feb 14, 2004)

Video:

http://www.santoalt.com/pacers_pistons_fight.php


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

I'm embarrassed that this happened, and I'm not even a fan of either teams.

this is indeed a huge huge black eye on on the NBA.


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## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

I wonder if this means we will all be drinking Cokes hence forth at the games cause a couple of D Boys didn't know their limit?


You know that booze will be the new hot topic!


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## Blaze_Rocks (Aug 11, 2004)

I cant believe I fell a sleep and missed it..:upset: I'm stunned.:jawdrop:


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## Blaze_Rocks (Aug 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Terrible</b>!
> I wonder if this means we will all be drinking Cokes hence forth at the games cause a couple of D Boys didn't know their limit?
> 
> 
> You know that booze will be the new hot topic!


I think beer pays for a nice chunk of those players salaries..I could be wrong though.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

i think we're talking month long suspensions here.


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## furball (Jul 25, 2004)

The biggest problem was Artest charged into the stands and hitting the wrong fan. and then Jackson came in and hit a guy who really didn't do anything. Artest should get 20 games, Jackson should get 20 games, O'Neal 10, and Tinsley should get something for coming out of the tunnel with a freakin dust pan.


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## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

You know who is the happiest team in the NBA now? The Heat! They can pretty much rest Shaq until after new years.


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## Blaze_Rocks (Aug 11, 2004)

I think that guy Steven Jackson hit threw a drink in Ron Artest face, Look closely and you'll see someone else throws another drink in his face...It was still uncalled for, but so awesome to watch...


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## chris_in_pdx (Jul 11, 2004)

*Solution: BAN ALCOHOL SALES AT SPORTING EVENTS*

Simple. Done. No more incidents like this.


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## aboveallodds24 (Sep 22, 2003)

i dont blame the players at all..... i also wanna say that i truly admire stephen jackson.... one helluva team mate... i would want him on my team knowin that he has got my back


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

BOOO! 

Mods, ban this man. 

:upset:


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

The guy that Jermaine clocked on the court got what he deserved, he won't be suing anybody. He'll be charged with something for sure, he was on the court looking for a fight.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>aboveallodds24</b>!
> i dont blame the players at all..... i also wanna say that i truly admire stephen jackson.... one helluva team mate... i would want him on my team knowin that he has got my back


Yeah. Imagine if it was Kobe Bryant? He'd start punching YOU! 

:laugh:


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Vernon Maxwell got 10 games when he went into the stands in a game against the Blazers @ The MC years ago..thats tame compared to this.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Every fan that sucker punched a player, threw beer etc., deserved to be dropped like the moron that J.O'neal took down.

If S.Jackson and B.Wallace would have calmed down after the foul and push by Ben, none of this would have happened.

F.Jones got blindsided by a big SOB.

GO OSU BEAVERS!! BEAT THE DUCKS!!


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## furball (Jul 25, 2004)

After watching it more, any fan that comes on the court deserves to be popped. Although that fat dude took two of Artests shots and was coming at him when he got tackled. Jermain just Kermit Washington'ed that dude. Kudo's. Really, only Artest, Jackson, and Wallace should be suspended. 

Freddy jones should be suspended for getting beat up by that fat dude. :starwars:


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Wont ever happen... too much $$$$$$$ involved. 

They charge so much for beer, I dont see why anyone buys enough beer to get drunk anyway.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

*Re: Solution: BAN ALCOHOL SALES AT SPORTING EVENTS*



> Originally posted by <b>chris_in_pdx</b>!
> Simple. Done. No more incidents like this.


Well, if we are going to overreact, why not just ban sporting events? Simple. Done.

barfo


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

Sportscenter was talking about pushing the fans back from the playing court to prevent something like this.

I have watched it several times and I am at a total loss. Something like that could have turned out a lot worse than it did and the sad fact is it didn't have to happen if the *fans* would have stayed out of it. It only takes one moron to spoil a good thing.

That fan that threw the water bottle at Ron Artest should never be allowed to goto another game for the rest of his pathic life. What a DUMBASS!!!! :nonono:

Sad day for the NBA!


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## Target (Mar 17, 2004)

Might as well ban attendance if you're going to ban beer.


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## Nightfly (Sep 24, 2002)

Maybe it should just be banned in Detroit for a while.


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## Target (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>BEER&BASKETBALL</b>!
> They charge so much for beer, I dont see why anyone buys enough beer to get drunk anyway.


That's where the aggression comes from; "I PAID THIS MUCH FOR BEER AND WE LOST?"

Less expensive beer is the answer...

LET IT FLOW.


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## TheBlueDoggy (Oct 5, 2004)

All of those fans drunk? Not likely... I think if there was anyone there drunk they got so before the game. First, they don't sell beer to people obviously intoxicated at nba games. Second, it'd take a hell of a lot of those little cups of beer to get drunk. 

Those fans reacted that way for three (possibly more) reasons:

1. Artest is a punk
2. 2003-2004 Champion Detroit is a .500 team at the moment. There's a lot for them to be upset about right now.
3. The fans are from.... Detroit. Enough said.

I recall when Blazer fans were throwing Bill Walton dolls at officials after they ejected Pippen in one game. IMO, there were two great reasons for that (refs made sucky calls, bill walton is a retard), but by your reasoning, those fans must have been drunk and rowdy and we should ban dolls and beer at the garden.

Don't over react. It wasn't the beer. It was a lot more than that.


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## furball (Jul 25, 2004)

I think you ban alcohol in Detroit for awhile, but not in Sports. Lets not overract. chriminey. We all enjoyed watching it, no one but the fat old guy got hurt.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

*Re: Solution: BAN ALCOHOL SALES AT SPORTING EVENTS*



> Originally posted by <b>chris_in_pdx</b>!
> Simple. Done. No more incidents like this.



I think I speak for most here when I say SHUT THE "F" UP. They might actually listen to you.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

Yes. WORST SUGGESTION EVER. 

I pay 10 bucks per beer here in LA anytime I go to a game, and I LOOOVE it. 

BEER AND SPORTS IS AWESOME. I LOVE IT!


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Backboard Cam</b>!
> You high school kids that are into the violence... well, I blame your parents really.


no doubt, pathetic. As shocking as the footage is, the stupidity of some of the comments on the 2nd page of this thread echos the idiot fan behaviour that instigated this whole thing.

Drunk idiots throwing insults and objects at a collection of the worlds strongest giants speaks for itself. The league is going to have a tough time sorting out what the right thing to do is. I think Artest went after the wrong fan in retaliation for the first thrown drink. There was a lady in a blue/gray sweat top who seemed more in line with the full cup. Her body language (ducking and getting the bleep out) seemed more telltale guilty then the fan who was attacked (who was jumping up and down excited). Having watched it a few times, it looked to me like he was still holding a drink when Artest went after him. It doesn't really change matters, but I doubt he was the instigator.

Some here are pointing to booze factoring in, and they may be right to some extent. I think negativity of sports culture is also a likely culprit. I've attended more then a few sporting events where I've been amazed at the nasty insults that are hurled at the visiting teams from the moment the action starts. Not good natured ribbing at all but repulsive sewermouth bleep. Drinking can escalate this behavior, but the behavior/attitude exists prior to the first beer. 

Those fans who were sucker punching players... I hope that the police can figure out who they are... what a disgrace. 

Well, it's my guess sports talk stations aren't going to have to resort to trade rumors for a while.

STOMP


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## talman (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Backboard Cam</b>!
> The guy that Jermaine clocked on the court got what he deserved, he won't be suing anybody. He'll be charged with something for sure, he was on the court looking for a fight.


Are you joking??

The guy deserved everything he got (and should've gotten more) but I'd wager my house that he WILL be filing a lawsuit and will get some sort of settlement out of it. Easy work for any attorney.

He made himself some $$$ by taking a couple in the face.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

> The guy deserved everything he got (and should've gotten more) but I'd wager my house that he WILL be filing a lawsuit and will get some sort of settlement out of it. Easy work for any attorney.
> 
> He made himself some $$$ by taking a couple in the face.


And that is exactly what is wrong with our society. That an ignorant punk like that could sue, let alone have a lawyer try and justify that his actions were not completely out of line AND sue for monetary (significant mind you) damages.

Those two guys were idiots, they were looking for a fight and they deserved to get their a$$ kicked as far as I am concerned. I have ZERO sympathy for them, or any other fan who took cheap shots at Indiana players. Throwing chairs? Sucker punching players from behind? Throwing beverages, cups, food, containers etc? That was a completely disgusting display by Detroit fans, they should be ashamed of themselves.

As for Artest, he overeacted, he should have NEVER gone into the stands, that was just plain dumb. But expecting your typicla NBA player to "check" his emotions and restrain himself, is expecting a lot IMO.

I remember when Maxwell went into the stands in POR, and funny thing is, as deplorable as I thought his actions were, I don't recall POR fans mobbing him.

As for the foul, it was a hard foul, Artest doesn't give up easy buckets. Is he an a-hole? Yeah. But it certainly does not justify Ben Wallace's actions. Surprisingly, it was Wallace and not Artest who couldn't control themselves. If anyone deserves a long suspension it is Ben Wallace. His punch was clearly malicious and overreactive IMO. Artest isn't innocent in this matter, nor Steven Jackson, or any other Indiana player for that matter. There is plenty of blame to go around. But the majority of it, DEFINITELY falls on the shoulders of those fans who completely lost control of themselves.

What a disgrace.


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## talman (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmurph</b>!
> 
> 
> And that is exactly what is wrong with our society. That an ignorant punk like that could sue, let alone have a lawyer try and justify that his actions were not completely out of line AND sue for monetary (significant mind you) damages.
> ...


Amen to that--it's a complete shame that a jackhole can sue after being a complete *** and get paid.


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

As horrible I am to say this, that fight was dam entertaining to watch. Dont get me wrong, I hope no one got hurt. But, dam. That was unreal. I was seriously in shock. Almost like it was a movie.


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Sobriety is no cure for stupidity.

These are just really bad, stupid, thoughtless, violent people.

They are why we have jails.


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)




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## Rod Strickland (Oct 29, 2004)

*Jermaine O'neal after his 1 year suspension?*

what do you guys think? you think we can get jermaine after his suspension? well, i have my fingers crossed. 

ROD


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmurph</b>!
> Those two guys were idiots, they were looking for a fight and they deserved to get their a$$ kicked as far as I am concerned.
> I have ZERO sympathy for them, or any other fan who took cheap shots at Indiana players.





> As for Artest, he overeacted, he should have NEVER gone into the stands, that was just plain dumb. But expecting your typicla NBA player to "check" his emotions and restrain himself, is expecting a lot IMO.


Let's try that in reverse:

As for those two fans, they overreacted, they should have NEVER gone onto the court, that was just plain dumb. But expecting your typical NBA fan to "check" his emotions and restrain himself, is expecting a lot IMO.

Seems like you are awfully willing to cut NBA players slack for acting like idiots, why not cut the fans the same slack?

barfo


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>barfo</b>!
> 
> Let's try that in reverse:
> 
> ...


I think with this thing escalating barfo, if you're a fan and approaching a Pacer player (specifically Artest) on the court, you got to realize you're going to get your *** kicked.

Not to mention the guy was obviously knuckling up. They made their decision to go on the court and got beat up for their trouble. 

As for Artest, he was pushed by the guy who hit him with the beer into the nerd and then started fighting with the guy who did it initially. He got the right guy. ESPN may have shifted to other cameras during the melee, but the fans are at fault. 

I don't go to many NBA games anymore, because the racial insults and other inflammatory language is too much to deal with. College is the same way. Many people bring their children to this and it isn't a surprise that in a rivalry like this, fans would be out of control, but when they took it to that level and they want to throw things, they have no one to blame but themselves. 

I shed no crocodile tears for the fans who got whupped.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> I think with this thing escalating barfo, if you're a fan and approaching a Pacer player (specifically Artest) on the court, you got to realize you're going to get your *** kicked.


Well, I am a fan, but there's no way I'm getting anywhere near Artest, ever, even if he's sleeping under heavy sedation. 



> Not to mention the guy was obviously knuckling up. They made their decision to go on the court and got beat up for their trouble.
> 
> As for Artest, he was pushed by the guy who hit him with the beer into the nerd and then started fighting with the guy who did it initially. He got the right guy. ESPN may have shifted to other cameras during the melee, but the fans are at fault.


Whether he got the right guy or not, he was being just as much of an idiot as the fan(s). More, in fact, because he has much more to lose.



> Many people bring their children to this and it isn't a surprise that in a rivalry like this, fans would be out of control, but when they took it to that level and they want to throw things, they have no one to blame but themselves.


I agree completely, but I think it is educational for the kids, assuming Artest doesn't punch them.



> I shed no crocodile tears for the fans who got whupped.


Oh, me neither. But I'm not going to feel sorry when the suspensions are handed out, either. Both sides got what they so richly deserved.

barfo


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## RipCity9 (Jan 30, 2004)

> But expecting your typicla NBA player to "check" his emotions and restrain himself, is expecting a lot IMO.


No, but expecting Ron Artest to do so is complete delusion. He is a ticking time bomb who should not be in this league. He represents everything wrong with the NBA and his continued antics will only further bring this once great game down. I'm becoming turned off by the Association - if I weren't hopelessly behind the Blazers I'd stop watching altogether.


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## CelticPagan (Aug 23, 2004)

How do you know he's on a 1 year suspension?


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

He didn't choke a fan did he? I think that he is going to sit out a few games for his actions in the Detroit fan fest and he might lose some money with fines and legal action, but a year suspension, highly unlikely.


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## Swerv (Jan 2, 2003)

Its the morning after the brawl now.......I am still pissed!! 

First, the idiot that got punched by artest and O'neil got what he deserved for being on the floor.....no sympathy at all....in my opinion, the floor is the players domain (so to speak)

However, I believe that the stands are the fans domain.....yes the fans were EXTREME idiots for throwing bottles and food......but under NO circumstance should a player EVER go into the stands after someone....

If I were in the stands with my wife and kids and Artest who is known for being a complete idiot and ticking time bomb is rushing up to where my family is....yeah id probally get my *** kicked but I would try to protect my family....

I hope they suspend Artest and Jackson for a long LONG time.......

Anyone find it kind of odd that Rasheed was actually trying to play peace maker.....Good for him for actually keeping his cool.


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## trifecta (Oct 10, 2002)

Whew! Last night I made a comment somewhere about it without seeing it and thankfully it's not here this morning! Amazing what alcohol will do!

While this was an amazingly pathetic situation, I hate over-reactions.

I really hope that the league keeps in mind that this is one isolated incident. Out of how many sporting events over the years? Making decisions like banning beer because of this or moving the fans away is just plain stupid. 99.999% (taken directly out of my fan behavior log) of the time, fans, beer, and players mix without complications. Wait until this happens again before deciding what to do.

The players are going to be suspended a very long time and well they should. Artest was the cause of this. The fan was an idiot but a player cannot leave the court. At any cost. I don't want to hear any justification at all. There isn't any. Don't tell me that any man would do the same. Part of players' jobs are to put up with stupid fans. Unfortunately that includes being splashed with beer once in a while. I would suspend Artest until all-star break and perhaps suspend beer sales in Detroit for a while. The other players should get 10 games if they went into the stands.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Swerv</b>!
> Anyone find it kind of odd that Rasheed was actually trying to play peace maker.....Good for him for actually keeping his cool.


I don't. Those Pistons fans weren't throwing bottles and bolo punches at him. 

Fred Jones went into the stands as a peacemaker to tie up Artest as well, but he was promptly mugged from behind by some huge fat guy. I'm sure the reason the fans turned on him and not Sheed was because he had the other uni on. 

I'm reminded of the ugly incident a couple years back in Oakland when Bonzi and Chris Mills had a spat. Like this incident, the visiting team had won the game when the on-court fight happened. Fans then started hurling drinks and objects from the stands at Portland players... one lady was caught on camera spitting down on Blazer players as they went off the court into the tunnel. Several Blazer players (including Sheed) tried to go into the stands to confront fans... thankfully they were restrained before things got really out of hand.

Oakland and Detroit... two of the usual suspects for ugly fan behavior to be sure. Like Greg Anthony was saying on ESPN, this incident will probably change how games are handled from here on out. Maybe they'll suspend beer sales in the 2nd half. They should probably consider putting plexiglass up around the tunnels. I hope they successfully prosecute a few of the idiot fans who were at fault and do so very publically. The lady who threw the first drink... the dolt who was punched out by Artest and O'neal... the unbelievable idiot who threw the chair... hopefully the police successfully identify and prosecute them. They've got a lot more angles of this stuff on film then we saw last night.

STOMP


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Swerv</b>!
> 
> Anyone find it kind of odd that Rasheed was actually trying to play peace maker.....Good for him for actually keeping his cool.


nope


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>trifecta</b>!
> 
> The players are going to be suspended a very long time and well they should. Artest was the cause of this. The fan was an idiot but a player cannot leave the court. At any cost. I don't want to hear any justification at all. There isn't any. Don't tell me that any man would do the same. Part of players' jobs are to put up with stupid fans. Unfortunately that includes being splashed with beer once in a while.


I couldn't disagree more. While I do think that player suspensions will be coming, I'd be pretty amazed if very many posters would agree with you that players should be expected to put up with having objects thrown at them. Thats going to get the same reaction most every time. 

STOMP


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HOWIE</b>!
> He didn't choke a hand did he? I think that he is going to sit out a few games for his actions in the Detroit fan fest and he might lose some money with fines and legal action, but a year suspension, highly unlikely.


even thought it's questionable whether or not that guy was running up to deck Artest, he (being Ron Artest, Jermaine O'Neal, and the fan) still assaulted someone.

Sometimes when you view it, it looks like the guy was going after Artest. And at other times it doesn't. It almost looks like he's not looking at Artest, and then when he see's him, thinks Artest is going to pop him so he does just what Artest does, and "put up his dukes". Maybe he's looking to be a "hero" or he's looking to be a dumbass and attack someone else? Maybe he was doing it to attack Artest for all I know.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

choke a hand? 

I'd guess that O'neal is suspended for a couple of games. I don't think that fan has any grounds for legal action against Artest or O'Neal... in fact I expect him to be one of the fans facing legal charges.

STOMP


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazerben4</b>!
> all im doing is laughing i think its funny as hell Jacksons got a good left hook (but i think patterson would beats most nba players asses)



Gotta disagree ... Steven Jackson is a "fighting fool". He was swinging and stepping on people. Artest was lucky to have him on his team.

I know, if I'm in trouble --- I want Steven on my side. He wasted NO TIME going in to protect his teammate.

Steven IS a "fighting fool". Boy can he swing. He probably will carry the largest fine, but Ben Wallace deserves equal if not more of the blame.


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>aboveallodds24</b>!
> i dont blame the players at all..... i also wanna say that i truly admire stephen jackson.... one helluva team mate... i would want him on my team knowin that he has got my back



I agree 100%. I didn't see your post before I replied earlier. But, he laid it on the line for his teammate and you've got to respect him for that.

I would want him to have my back, for sure.


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Xericx</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah. Imagine if it was Kobe Bryant? He'd start punching YOU!
> ...


Touche ... AND tell the cops that YOU started it; he was trying to defend the fans!!!


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

I think that the fan that was on the court that Artest punch has little grounds to complain. He walked up, did a jump stop and squared his shoulders to Artest... it looked like a fighting pose, and that Artest punched him shouldn't be a shock.

With Jermaine, though, it was a different situation. He ran from a distance and punched a DIFFERENT guy who wasn't even looking at him.

I don't think Jermaine will be suspended for a year, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's charged with assault.

Ed O.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>STOMP</b>!
> *choke a hand?*
> 
> I'd guess that O'neal is suspended for a couple of games. I don't think that fan has any grounds for legal action against Artest or O'Neal... in fact I expect him to be one of the fans facing legal charges.
> ...


Um yeah, it's new lingo haven't you heard it before? Sorry about that, I was up all night with the kid and shouldn't post til I have had some sleep. I meant to say "Choke a fan". I corrected the post so that I don't look like a complete idiot, what can I say, but Doh!!!!!


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## Buck Williams (May 16, 2004)

Portland fans should brawl with the nuggets i hate everyone on that team except melo and boykins


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

I don't think Jermain ever went into the crowd. He clocked some guy that was "endangering" him by being on the court. I honestly think Sheed will get a longer suspention than Jermain will because Sheed left the floor and went into the stands....EVEN THOUGH HE APPEARED TO BE KEEPING PEACE.

I honestly thing the players that will have the longest suspensions are Steven Jackson and Chuck Person. Fred Jones will get one, so will Derick Coleman. They will have the longest ones along with Sheed because they all went into the stands.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

*On the positive side of the fight.........*

If there was any (but there isn't). 

I think this officially ends our reign as the JailBlazers franchise. The Piston fans have taken the title of "proverbial media whipping boy" now.


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## Blazerfan024 (Aug 15, 2003)

If no one can see artest was jawwing to the crowd while he was being a smart *** while laying on the scoring table. Then you wonder why he got stuff thrown at him. It wasnt right of the fans but Artest should have kept his damn mouth shut.

The fan that ran up to Artest after artest came down from the stands did not put up his dukes, Artest just clocked him, so yes Artest will face charges and lawsuits because the guy did nothing other than be stupid and come down from the stand, but did not show his fists.

Watch the 3rd video in the Pacers/Pistons brawl you will see it very clearly, they have good camera shots, which you did not see on espn or most news channels.


I also want to add I think no one was in the right last night but artest should have been a bigger man and went straight to the locker room,not make it worse by being a smart ***, but we know artest is a time bomb so what do you expect.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>mediocre man</b>!
> I don't think Jermain ever went into the crowd. He clocked some guy that was "endangering" him by being on the court. I honestly think Sheed will get a longer suspention than Jermain will because Sheed left the floor and went into the stands....EVEN THOUGH HE APPEARED TO BE KEEPING PEACE.
> 
> I honestly thing the players that will have the longest suspensions are Steven Jackson and Chuck Person. Fred Jones will get one, so will Derick Coleman. They will have the longest ones along with Sheed because they all went into the stands.


chuck person??


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

Dude. The fans were acting badly. 

But how does throwing a cup of beer justify a beating from a much larger man. 

Both sides are a fault, but Artest, Jackson and Jermaine are much more at fault.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

As the Pacers were leaving, lots of fans continued throwing drinks and whatever they could find at the Pacers as they were leaving. 

Other fans were punching the Pacers as they were being restrained and held back (punching them from the back). Fred Jones got pummled a few times by that fat black guy and Artest started getting punched on while officials were holding him back by that guy with the cap. 

The Piston fans were PUNKS plain and simple and the rest of the fans see it that way. Absolute lack of class. They went on the court and tried to start fights with the players. Rediculous. 


I'm talking as far as a media standpoint, we are no longer the whipping boys of the league as far as an organization goes. The Pacers were protecting their own and themselves and the Pistons were being a bunch of classless jackals.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

the guy that Artest hit, (in the pistons uniform) wasn't going there with his "dukes" raised. He was just there (like an idiot) and wasn';t going after Artest. 

Watch the video, and you'll see.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> the guy that Artest hit, (in the pistons uniform) wasn't going there with his "dukes" raised. He was just there (like an idiot) and wasn';t going after Artest.
> 
> Watch the video, and you'll see.


I did watch the video, and I disagree.

The guy walked up to artest, did a little jump stop to square himself up, and just stood there. It was, IMO, definitely a position from which to fight. 

If the guy was interested in going somewhere, he could have kept walking. He was certainly, IMO, challenging Artest and I think Artest was justified in the circumstances to hit him.

(I do NOT think Artest should have gone into the stands in the first place, and I think that O'Neal's shot was the worst thing done by a player in the evening, but the punch above was less of an issue for me.)

Ed O.


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## s a b a s 11 (Dec 31, 2002)

*Wow. D-town.*

Both parties are responsible, but what it ultimately comes down to is the NBA players' responsibility to be the bigger person. 

Yes, its frustrating to get beer thrown on you, in fact it's hugely disrespectful and something no one should have to deal with. But it happens and unfortunately NBA players are not getting paid to *just* play basketball. As Walton said "(Players) have to prepare themselves for any eventuality"

NBA players know that with the money they receive to play a child's game; that their lives become public lives, scrutinized by the media, girls will try and have sex with them, distant relatives and strangers will come out of the woodwork asking for money, fans will yell, scream, get personal, and feel entirely entitled to it for the price of their ticket. They cannot behave as if all things are equal anymore.

The ideal way to have handled that was to make your way into your locker room, take the beer-soaked jersey off and punch a wall. That way, you are not endangering yourself, your family, others, and your career. 

But thats not how some of these players grew up. Where Artest is from (tough streets in Chicago), if you disrespect them, they stand up against it. And though contradictory to my argument as it is, I understand that viewpoint and it's difficult to quit being a tough-guy cold-turkey.

But again, cooler heads should prevail, and those cooler heads should be in NBA jerseys 100% of the time. When it boils down to it, the players have much more to lose. Fans may get thrown in jail but thats really about it. NBA players can also be thrown in jail, in addition to being fined, suspended, sued, criticized in the media and have their reputation tainted (or in Artest's case- further tainted) for the rest of their careers. 

Jermaine O'Neal should be suspended 10-15 games, while Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson should be suspended for 25-30 games if not more. I wouldn't be surprised if it was more. 

And though I am from Michigan and would hate to see it, the Palace of Auburn Hills should be empty for all Detroit Piston home games for the duration of Artest's and Jackson's suspension, or a minimum of 15 games.

Stuart


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> I did watch the video, and I disagree.
> ...


upon further review, I can see what you're saying. 


> If the guy was interested in going somewhere, he could have kept walking. He was certainly, IMO, challenging Artest and I think Artest was justified in the circumstances to hit him.


I kind of think that the idiot was almost going into a defensive mode, more than an attacking move. But than again, reviewing the film on a second by second basis, that guy looks like he was trying to sucker punch Artest..

so I now change my mind. he got what he deserved, and actually, the other guy, who seemingly was trying to stop his friend, got what the other guy deserved.

hold on, I'm not supposed to admit I was wrong...


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ed O</b>!
> 
> 
> I did watch the video, and I disagree.
> ...


Absolutely right. 

The moment that guy stopped in front of Artest, fists clenched, all bets are off. There's no way of knowing if that guy has a gun or knife and it was clear that he was in a threatening posture. In that situation, Artest had every right to throw the first punch to try to eliminate the clear threat that guy was posing. 

Any suspension he gets should be for going into the stands in the first place.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> The moment that guy stopped in front of Artest, fists clenched, all bets are off. There's no way of knowing if that guy has a gun or knife and it was clear that he was in a threatening posture. In that situation, Artest had every right to throw the first punch to try to eliminate the clear threat that guy was posing.


In fact, he may have had weapons of mass destruction. Artest would have been justified in bombing the city of Detroit into smithereens. You just can't take chances with the axis of evil fat fans. 

If he had his fists clenched, how was he going to use a gun or a knife? 

barfo


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>barfo</b>!
> If he had his fists clenched, how was he going to use a gun or a knife?
> 
> barfo


Gee barfo...maybe by unclenching his fist and then reaching into a pocket? 

I know that may be difficult for some people to grok, especially if they got their education in the Detroit public school system, but it's entirely possible that even a moron from Detroit could have figured that out.

You on the other hand...


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> 
> You on the other hand...


Barfo on the other hand what? He'd take out a squid and throw it on the ice thinking he was at a hockey game because of the fight that broke out?

"Go Red Wings!"


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## SodaPopinski (Aug 10, 2004)

Maybe Artest should have paused and used instant replay to be able to tell whether or not that guy in the Pistons jersey was attempting to fight him.

You guys are incredible. I love how you think someone whose adrenalin is pumping a million gallons a minute and had just been pelted and punched by dozens of fans is supposed to have the ability to make a logical estimation about whether or not a fan who charged at him onto the court was planning to attack him or not.

We have the benefit of being 4,000 miles away and watching replay after replay in slow motion. Artest had to react to what was happening in a split second.

I don't blame him one bit. Any one of us would have defended ourselves the same way.

-Pop


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## thrillhouse (Apr 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Fork</b>!
> 
> 
> Gee barfo...maybe by unclenching his fist and then reaching into a pocket?
> ...


well im from the detroit school system, and i really cant grok what you are trying to say, maybe you can enlighten me o wise one


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

How about the time Shaq pushed a ref to the floor twice and not even a one game suspension..

I saw it with my own eyes.

I believe it was in Utah.


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## s a b a s 11 (Dec 31, 2002)

I was talking to one of my buddies about this and I remembered something that the announcers said... did you guys know that the 'other' game on Christmas day (other than the Lakers-Heat ShaqKobeFeud Game) is the Indiana Detroit game? 

David Stern, looking at a calendar: "UH, we are going to suspend Artest Oneal and Stephen Jackson for 27 games, I think that sounds right..."

Those two games are going to have HUGE ratings... even if those three are suspended for it... whoever scheduled those two games together is prescient and going to get a huge-*** raise. can you believe a game has actually overtaken the Kobe-Shaq feud?

Do you think there is a chance that they'll cancel the rest of the Indiana-Detroit games?

Stuart


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