# Jerry West does the same thing again, 10 years later



## sherwin (Mar 21, 2005)

1996: Vlade Divac for Kobe Bryant
2006: Shane Battier for Rudy Gay


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## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

sherwin said:


> 1996: Vlade Divac for Kobe Bryant
> 2006: Shane Battier for Rudy Gay



I wanna see Rudy win 3 championships and then score 81 points.


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## Ghost (Jun 21, 2002)

I think Rudy Gay can become a All-Star, but I don't think he will ever be as good as Kobe Bryant,


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## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

best case scenario: scottie pippen
worse case scenario: darius miles


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Dr.Seuss said:


> I wanna see Rudy win 3 championships and then score 81 points.



Sure, put Gay with a Shaq type player then you got your 3 titles possibly. 

His point was he made a good trade, not that they're the same player or anything.


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## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

Dissonance19 said:


> Sure, put Gay with a Shaq type player then you got your 3 titles possibly.
> 
> His point was he made a good trade, not that they're the same player or anything.



C'mon, hes comparing apples to oranges. Rudy has alot of work ahead of him.
But that atheltism will definately get him there faster.


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

I think he means by making a superb trade by acquiring a sky's the limit type player for practically nothing.


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

Seriously, what were Rockets thinking? :whatever:


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

Thats West 4 ya.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I don't think Gay will be anywhere as good as Kobe, but hell of a trade by West, he got Stromile Swift in the deal too.


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## lessthanjake (Jul 4, 2005)

Stromile Swift for Shane Battier would only be a bit lopsided against Memphis. Oh my gosh. Jerry West is the best GM in the business.


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## bronx43 (Dec 9, 2005)

lessthanjake said:


> Stromile Swift for Shane Battier would only be a bit lopsided against Memphis. Oh my gosh. Jerry West is the best GM in the business.


Correction: Carroll Dawson is the WORST GM in the business. This move makes Isiah look like Coleangelo.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Dr.Seuss said:


> I wanna see Rudy win 3 championships and then score 81 points.


**** man, me too...


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

DuMa said:


> best case scenario: scottie pippen
> worse case scenario: darius miles


These might have been the worst comparisons you could come up with.


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## Samael (Sep 1, 2005)

If this isn't the definition of highway robbery then I don't know what is.


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## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

Seriously Houston, What the ****

Jerry West does it again... Gay should be phenomenal for the Grizz.


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## Chalie Boy (Aug 26, 2002)

I all could do when I seen this trade was :rotf:


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## Kapitalistsvin (Mar 30, 2006)

I love the potential of Gay too... But Battier is the perfect fit. Dont look at his stats, he's so much more than that, he makes Houston a legit contender.

But still a great move by Memphis (Stro i washed up though... never gonna be more than a bunny of the bench).


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## sMaK (Jun 13, 2002)

I think this is a great trade, don't get me wrong. I think Gay is going to be the best player in the draft. But, it seems that everyone thinks that this is a great trade for the Grizz. I don't remember everyone praising Gay like this before the draft. It's like Battier is some random scrub. Battier can play. I'd rather take my chances with Gay, but the Rockets want a sure thing. They have one with Battier. 

The winner in the trade is definitely the Grizzlies, but the Rockets didn't do too bad. Mike Miller would have been better, though.


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

Wow, ripoff. Jerry West raped the Rockets.


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## CrackerJack (Jul 2, 2005)

CD is west's ***** it looks like after this


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Houston, we have a problem.

But I don't think that Swift will be too happy going back to Memphis, maybe he'll get traded again.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

sMaK said:


> I think this is a great trade, don't get me wrong. I think Gay is going to be the best player in the draft. But, it seems that everyone thinks that this is a great trade for the Grizz. I don't remember everyone praising Gay like this before the draft. It's like Battier is some random scrub. Battier can play. I'd rather take my chances with Gay, but the Rockets want a sure thing. They have one with Battier.
> 
> The winner in the trade is definitely the Grizzlies, but the Rockets didn't do too bad. Mike Miller would have been better, though.


That's not true, when there was a thread about who will be the best player from this draft, most people said Gay. In fact, it was pretty much assumed around here that Gay will be the best player from the draft.

Here's where my criticism comes in, I can't speak for anyone else, but the Rockets even with Battier are never going to get out of the West. They want to win now, and that's great, but Battier doesn't get you past San Antonio, Dallas, Phoenix, and probably the Clippers. Battier is 27 and already maxed out on his potential, what you see is what you're going to get. Gay on the other hand is 20 and has the possibility to be another T-Mac. Yao and T-Mac are still young. Therefore it makes more sense to me to grit your teeth with Gay for a few years while he matures into exactly the kind of player you want and then you have the best starting lineup in the league. Plus, the contenders right now will likely be a little weaker as they lose guys to free agency and get older. The Rockets should be targetting a Championship in 2008 or 2009, not 2007. That's why you don't swing this trade.


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## Kapitalistsvin (Mar 30, 2006)

> The winner in the trade is definitely the Grizzlies, but the Rockets didn't do too bad. Mike Miller would have been better, though.


I don't follow... Shane Battier is one of the best role players in the lague. You don't get a better fit. He doesn't need the ball to be effective, he defends with the best of them and he can go outside or inside, just going where T-Mac don't want to go that turn down the court.

He is excactly the kind of guy who'll get you a championship. Spurs core in my eyes is Duncan/Bowen, and then you add Parker, Manu as the next pieces in the pussle, but the extra scorer is easier to find (and in Houston you have two of the best). Shane can put up 18 ppg if asked to, but he doesn't have to in Houston.

I like it... for both teams.


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## pup2plywif (Dec 20, 2005)

Nimreitz said:


> That's not true, when there was a thread about who will be the best player from this draft, most people said Gay. In fact, it was pretty much assumed around here that Gay will be the best player from the draft.
> 
> Here's where my criticism comes in, I can't speak for anyone else, but the Rockets even with Battier are never going to get out of the West. They want to win now, and that's great, but Battier doesn't get you past San Antonio, Dallas, Phoenix, and probably the Clippers. Battier is 27 and already maxed out on his potential, what you see is what you're going to get. Gay on the other hand is 20 and has the possibility to be another T-Mac. Yao and T-Mac are still young. Therefore it makes more sense to me to grit your teeth with Gay for a few years while he matures into exactly the kind of player you want and then you have the best starting lineup in the league. Plus, the contenders right now will likely be a little weaker as they lose guys to free agency and get older. The Rockets should be targetting a Championship in 2008 or 2009, not 2007. That's why you don't swing this trade.


I think the original trade occured before the draft even started. It sounds like the rockets were trying to trade the #8 pick along with swift to entice someone to take swifts contract. It just happens that Gay lands to 8.


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

And what was Jerry West doing in the 10 years in between? How well did he do in the 2003 draft??

I hope Gay turns out to be a great player, but most of you are talking like he'll come out and play like Chris Paul next season. Gay was Houston's #8 pick, Houston traded their #8 and Stromile for Battier. That sounds like a good trade to me.


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## universal! (Mar 5, 2006)

Nimreitz said:


> That's not true, when there was a thread about who will be the best player from this draft, most people said Gay. In fact, it was pretty much assumed around here that Gay will be the best player from the draft.
> 
> Here's where my criticism comes in, I can't speak for anyone else, but the Rockets even with Battier are never going to get out of the West. They want to win now, and that's great, but Battier doesn't get you past San Antonio, Dallas, Phoenix, and probably the Clippers. Battier is 27 and already maxed out on his potential, what you see is what you're going to get. Gay on the other hand is 20 and has the possibility to be another T-Mac. Yao and T-Mac are still young. Therefore it makes more sense to me to grit your teeth with Gay for a few years while he matures into exactly the kind of player you want and then you have the best starting lineup in the league. Plus, the contenders right now will likely be a little weaker as they lose guys to free agency and get older. The Rockets should be targetting a Championship in 2008 or 2009, not 2007. That's why you don't swing this trade.


Rockets need to win now. Tmac's health may not hold out that long. In all honesty I don't see the Rockets keeping their roster intact if they don't win soon, probably not in the span of time that Rudy need to develop. Though the point about Rudy being the 8th pick and the Rockets trading the 8th and not Rudy makes sense to me.
Battier is also a perfect fit with JVG's system.


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

universal! said:


> Rockets need to win now. Tmac's health may not hold out that long. In all honesty I don't see the Rockets keeping their roster intact if they don't win soon, probably not in the span of time that Rudy need to develop. Though the point about Rudy being the 8th pick and the Rockets trading the 8th and not Rudy makes sense to me.
> Battier is also a perfect fit with JVG's system.


Like N said, big freaking deal if he is the perfect fit. They still aren't in the top 3 in the West or top 5 in the League (Heat/Pistons). Heck, the Bulls are probably better now as well especially if they get one of the upper end free agents...and don't forget about Lebron James.

If Tmac's health isn't going to hold out that much longer, all the more reason to draft Gay. If Gay can be Tmac in 3 years, then you have your transition player. All this being said, I can say that its probable that Gay's overall statistics next year will be better than Battier's. His overall defense on a consistency basis might not be as good but Gay would create more turnovers.


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## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

Lynx said:


> Seriously, what were Rockets thinking? :whatever:


TMac's back won't last long. They need to win now. They do not have time to see if Gay will develop. 

You have to remember. There is a chance Gay may never come out of his shell and be a bust. 

In Battier, you know what you are getting.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

croco said:


> Houston, we have a problem.
> 
> But I don't think that Swift will be too happy going back to Memphis, maybe he'll get traded again.


Swift liked Memphis just fine. We just weren't going to pay him the money he was demanding.

He's garbage though, don't get me wrong.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

This was a poor trade for Houston because it doesn't really improve their team THAT much. They would have been better off keeping the pick. 

Also Rudy Gay will come out with a Chip on his shoulder. He will be the 2006-07 ROY.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

LA68 said:


> TMac's back won't last long. They need to win now. They do not have time to see if Gay will develop.
> 
> You have to remember. There is a chance Gay may never come out of his shell and be a bust.
> 
> In Battier, you know what you are getting.


I think people are a little confused on the criticism of Gay. He is not considered lazy. He does not have a bad attitude. He does not have poor work ethic. The criticism is that he may not be an alpha dog. He does not have the killer instinct to become a big time scorer in the NBA. Even if all that is true, he will still be better than Shane. To get Stro back as a throw in is just a bonus, we get to fill two rotation spots for the cost of one. Stro is better than last season's Lorenzen Wright/Jake Tsakalidis contraption we had to endure.

However, I don't think Jerry West is finished this summer.


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## B-Real (Sep 30, 2005)

i guess jerry west and geoff petrie are the smartest guys in there to build a team! let´s start a project and let´em work together


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## TiMVP2 (Jun 19, 2003)

DuMa said:


> best case scenario: scottie pippen
> worse case scenario: darius miles



yeah right


best case scenario: manager of grocery store
worst case scenario: grocery bagger


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

MDIZZ said:


> yeah right
> 
> 
> best case scenario: manager of grocery store
> worst case scenario: grocery bagger



yeah, for a guy who avged 15.2 ppg and 6 boards at Uconn. he's got no future in the NBA 

He has most potential in this draft, and even if he is not a superstar, he's gonna be at least a star or solid. His game translates to NBA more too.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

MDIZZ said:


> yeah right
> 
> 
> best case scenario: manager of grocery store
> worst case scenario: grocery bagger


Best case scenario: Ballscientist
Worst case scenario: TiMVP2


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

Rawse said:


> Best case scenario: Ballscientist
> Worst case scenario: TiMVP2


:rofl:


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Never doubt Jerry West. Ever.


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

it doesn't take much to get over on this cracker-jack front office in Houston.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Prolific Scorer said:


> I think he means by making a superb trade by acquiring a sky's the limit type player for practically nothing.


"Practically nothing" right? Are you old enough to know who Vlade was? He was an all-star himself.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

i just cant go there comparing gay to kobe bryant. if houston gets to the finals in the next year or two that's all they care about, i assume they think shane will do a better job of helping them get there and i agree.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Kobe Bryant for Vlade Divac : Rudy Gay for Shane Battier

Rudy does not have to be Kobe for this trade to be similar because Shane Battier is nowhere close to the level of player Divac was when traded. Divac was an All Star center. In other words it would be like trading Pau Gasol for Rudy Gay.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Kobe for Vlade looked like a good deal for Charlotte for about four years.Since they probably would have lost Kobe in free agency it probably wasn't that bad a deal for the Hornets.Vlade was a much better player than Kobe for about three years and it wasn't a complete mismatch until Vlade got over four packs a day.

I want to see the final details of this trade before I pass judgement.I really find it difficult to believe that the Grizzlies aren't sending something more to Houston.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Lynx said:


> Seriously, what were Rockets thinking? :whatever:


It wasn't the Rockets, it was Darryl ****ing Morey, the ****ing bane of my existence. He's the guy responsible for the Moobs Scalabrine and An Ickau signings in Boston. I was ecstatic when I heard that Boston had fired him for accidentally tanking the 2006 season only to learn, to my horror, that my second favourite team had hired this ****ing assclown to oversee their accidental tanking of the 2007 season. :curse: 

They'd better fire this ****er after he finishes turning them into a 33 win franchise.


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## crazyfan (Dec 9, 2005)

I Dont want to say this but we could well see the demise of the houston rockets and the ' 1-2 punch' of T-Mac and Yao may never succeed


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## TiMVP2 (Jun 19, 2003)

Dissonance19 said:


> yeah, for a guy who avged 15.2 ppg and 6 boards at Uconn. he's got no future in the NBA
> 
> He has most potential in this draft, and even if he is not a superstar, he's gonna be at least a star or solid. His game translates to NBA more too.



Danny Ferry averaged 22/7 at duke


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

This could be pitched as a future value for current value deal except that, as others have noted, this deal doesn't put Houston over the top this coming season. Battier is essentially a taller, prime David Wesley. He plays good defense, plays hard and shoots the three pointer fairly well. That's a good role-player to have and had Houston dealt Swift straight up for Battier, it would have been a great deal. Houston needs players like Battier.

But not at the expense of perhaps the best superstar prospect in the draft. Gay isn't some raw, athletic prospect. He's nearly a perfect package of skills and talent...he's tall, he's athletic, he can slash and finish, shoot very well, defends well, rebounds adequately and can handle the ball and pass. In terms of facets of the game, he's virtually without weakness. He's not just a body type.

The knock against him has been "lack of desire." I don't think his 2005-06 season really illustrated that. Evidently scouts didn't like that he wasn't consistently dominant. However, he was a sophomore on a team with stacked senior class. Marcus Williams dominated the ball. Despite this, Gay led a talented and veteran team in scoring. I don't think that shows a lack of desire, I think it just shows a young player who played within a system that reinforces a seniority hierarchy. There is no such heirarchy in the NBA...talent rules.

I can't see any way that this isn't a horrific deal for Houston. They had their shot at a third star that they couldn't possibly have signed or traded for. He falls into their laps and they give him away. It almost seems malicious, that's how bad the deal is.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

Just tailing on to what Minstrel said, I would add that Battier does fit this team. Gay at worse can be what Battier is at his best and this is why in my opinion it was a poor trade. Battier provides good defense and a consistent outside shot, but neither of those skills get the Rockets over the top. He is the type of guy you bring in to a team on the brink of a championship. The Rockets shouldn't be building to win a championship this year, as barring any huge trade (ie trading for a superstar while keeping their own which isn't likely) this isn't a realistic expectation. the Rockets should be on a 3 year plan to win a Championship and this is the same time Gay will be coming into his own as an offensive and more importantly a defensive player in this league.

I'm not anticipating McGrady to get injured, but Gay is the best pick if he were to get injured or not. If McGrady were to become injured Gay who would be able to hold down the fort until he returned and if McGrady were to remain healthy you have a 3 options offensively in Yao, Mcgrady and Gay. Now, don't get me wrong, Battier is great to have, but not at the expense of drafting at best a potenial suparstar and at worse a player who would provide more than Battier would at his best. The Rockets could bring in a player like Battier (or a player of equal ability) in when they're ready to contend for a championship in 2-3 years after you already have Yao, McGrady and Gay.


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2005)

MDIZZ said:


> Danny Ferry averaged 22/7 at duke


The saddess thing is that he thought he was too good for the Clippers too when he got drafted which I guess really says something about the Clippers organization until lately.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

MDIZZ said:


> Danny Ferry averaged 22/7 at duke



and so what? People are saying the knock on Gay is he didn't have desire or dominate, but don't act like he did nothing to where he won't do anything in the NBA is what I am saying. His game translates to the NBA.


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## CSILASVEGAS (Jan 14, 2006)

Kapitalistsvin said:


> I don't follow... Shane Battier is one of the best role players in the lague. You don't get a better fit. He doesn't need the ball to be effective, he defends with the best of them and he can go outside or inside, just going where T-Mac don't want to go that turn down the court.
> 
> He is excactly the kind of guy who'll get you a championship. Spurs core in my eyes is Duncan/Bowen, and then you add Parker, Manu as the next pieces in the pussle, but the extra scorer is easier to find (and in Houston you have two of the best). Shane can put up 18 ppg if asked to, but he doesn't have to in Houston.
> 
> I like it... for both teams.


i agree with you. the rockets already have tmac and yao. adding another superstar would mess things up. tmac would want to have the ball most of the time. shane battier would be a nice fit to the system. he can shoot from the outside and is a decent inside player. 

memphis now can have a 1-2 punch with pau and rudy. kinda reminicent of the shaq-kobe duo. although of course the laker combo was more deadly. looks good for both sides... lets just wait and see....


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