# Telfair here on Sunday



## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

Was driving home tonight & I heard the Sebastian Telfair was scheduled to be in town this Sunday with Chris Duhon and I think Rashad Wright...I can't remember the other guys name. FWIW, just passing it along....

Rashad Wright

ah...here is the other guy...Greg Davis of Troy State.

phew...not so easy to find

Greg Davis


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## Sambonius (May 21, 2003)

That's hot. Go Sebastian! I hope he impresses our scouts and the Blazers take him with the 13th. When I saw him he absolutely controlled the game without even taking a shot, then again it was the all star game, but he was still ill.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

I'll be pretty pleased with this draft if we walk away with Sebastian Telfair with one of our first-rounders and Chris Duhon with our second-rounder.

Hopefully that would be our point guard and backup point guard for the next decade.


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## Perfection (May 10, 2004)

> I'll be pretty pleased with this draft if we walk away with Sebastian Telfair with one of our first-rounders and Chris Duhon with our second-rounder. Hopefully that would be our point guard and backup point guard for the next decade.



I seriously doubt we would pick up the both of them. We already have 4 PG's on the team (obvious some will not be with the team next year), which is already one of, if not, the largest number of PG's on a single team in the league. 

However, I would agree that despite Telfair's size, if we don't trade up then I would be happy drafting him at the 13th pick. 

Regardless...I seriously doubt you will see the both of the point guards getting picked up. It is more likely that the second rounder will be used to find some steal in the draft that (hopefully) could help the team. Even more likely is the possibility of drafting some Euro kid and developing him overseas. 

But, nonetheless, I am excited that Telfair is coming into town. I hope he impresses our scouts and we are able to choose him on draft day if we wish...

Just like I pray that Jackson will be there at 23.


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## cimalee (Apr 17, 2003)

Im all for draftinf Telefair . We need a pure pg who can run the team


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

but he is 5'-11" tall............


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

*I want another Midget PG*

Like I want a hole in the head. NO MORE MIDGET PG. PERIOD.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Height isn't everything guys,gese. Does TJ Ford or Earl Boykins ring a bell? It is called court vision, and he has it,that's all he needs.


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## Perfection (May 10, 2004)

While I'm a fan of large guards, I must agree. Some of the best point guards have been in the 5'10" to 6'1" range....sure height is always nice, but a player that is mainly going to setup others is all that is needed. Additionally, you don't need as much height if you will be mainly shooting layups or taking open shots (such as might). 

If he can shoot, regardless of his height, it requires the other team to defend him without the ball... and if they guard him tight then it leaves our other players with 1v1 situations (which is good for zach and darius). 

Thus, I think as long as he is as good of a setup man as is stated, he is quick, and can hit an open jumper, he can be an excellent player in this league.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Perfection</b>!
> I think as long as he is as good of a setup man as is stated, he is quick, and can hit an open jumper, he can be an excellent player in this league.


Size is not the only question mark with ST. Just about every report I've read questions his shooting ability, and his whining over calls in McD's game raised concerns for me about the kid's ego/maturity. I'm a big proponent of having a cool customer running the show. We'll see...

STOMP


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Perfection</b>!
> 
> I seriously doubt we would pick up the both of them. We already have 4 PG's on the team (obvious some will not be with the team next year), which is already one of, if not, the largest number of PG's on a single team in the league.


I don't see that as an issue because we don't have a single point guard worth keeping on the team. Stoudamire is just here until we can ditch his contract, Omar Cook, Dan Dickau and Eddie Gill were all just stop-gap attempts to get some consistent point guard play. None of the three showed themselves to be very legitimate NBA players.

Assuming Telfair works out as a starting NBA point guard, I'd much prefer to have Duhon backing him then any of the drek we currently have at the position. Plus, Duhon might very well be best player available. In the second round, it's a very bad idea to go for need: there are so few players in the second round that amount to anything, you have to maximize your chances of getting a good player by taking the best talent.


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## Perfection (May 10, 2004)

Does anybody know how Telfair did today?


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## Freshtown (May 24, 2004)

Sebastian doesn't have what we are looking for. Neither does Jameer Nelson. If we want to pursue a good pg, I want a big 6-4 200 dude, not a 5-11 Damon double. 

But why are we talking about this? The blazers won't take him when we win the lottery on Wednesday.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Freshtown</b>!
> Sebastian doesn't have what we are looking for. Neither does Jameer Nelson. If we want to pursue a good pg, I want a big 6-4 200 dude, not a 5-11 Damon double.
> 
> But why are we talking about this? The blazers won't take him when we win the lottery on Wednesday.


First of all, welcome to the Board.

* Second, if Portland wins the lottery I will shave my head! :yes:

* Now that I have said that Portland will win the lottery.


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

Here is an idea, if Portland gets a top 5 pick in the lottery, everyone on the board shaves their heads


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## ebott (Jan 7, 2003)

That's a heck of an idea Lakota. In fact, I nominate you to bring a set of clippers to the lottery party on Wednesday. That way nobody can wuss out.

On the real topic, did anyone hear how the workouts went today? I'm sure we'll hear about it on Court Side Monday Night. But I wanna hear about it now.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lakota_Blazer</b>!
> Here is an idea, if Portland gets a top 5 pick in the lottery, everyone on the board shaves their heads


If I'm at the show, (wed) and it's announced that we got a top 3 pick (as thats the only way the blazers aren't getting the 13 or 14th pick) Mike Rice can shave my head bald.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hap</b>!
> 
> If I'm at the show, (wed) and it's announced that we got a top 3 pick (as thats the only way the blazers aren't getting the 13 or 14th pick) Mike Rice can shave my head bald.


Shave your head bald AND make you listen to 10 random Beach Boys songs in a row.

Man, what a sacrifice you've offered to make, Hap.

Ed O.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

FYI ...POR will be scouting Ben Gordon in NY. So much for Canzano's "Not looking at any potential high draft picks" theory  



> If the lottery holds to form, Phoenix will get the No. 7 pick overall. The Suns would love to move up a few spots, presumably to take Ben Gordon to be their point guard of the future. They are one of several teams (along with *Portland*, Golden State, Seattle, the Clippers and Chicago) that are slated to attend Gordon's workout Tuesday in New York.


I wouldn't mind getting Gordon at all....


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

Seriously...

Canzano waited till what... the first workout before sounding off?

What a tool.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

*Nope*



> Originally posted by <b>MAS RipCity</b>!
> Height isn't everything guys,gese. Does TJ Ford or Earl Boykins ring a bell? It is called court vision, and he has it,that's all he needs.


If you watched either of the two you mentioned, then you would know that they are guards that although short and "harassing", they continually get taken advantage of when they are on the defensive end of the court. This is not what you want on your team if you want to compete for a title. The shortest PG I would suggest is in the 6'1" range. This would allow them to at least defend the tallest PG in the league, who run around 6'5" for the most part. While guys like Boykins are gutsy players who have a lot of fan attention because they are a short guy playing in the NBA (Much like mugsy bogues), they are not the type of player you want to make a run at a championship with. They cannot defend, and they will get snuffed enough by taller players in critical situations to cost your team. Tall=Good. Short = Bad.

The shortest starting PG that I can ever remember being on a championship team was Isiah Thomas, and even he was 6' tall, and had extra long arms to make up for his height.


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

Isiah was 5'10...

Avery Johnson was maybe 5'10.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

*No*

Isiah was and still is 6'1" tall 

http://www.nba.com/history/players/thomas_summary.html

Avery Johnson was 5'11" I acknowledge that, but you will also note that he was easily identifiable as the weak link on many of the Spur's teams he was on. The only team he continually beat up on was Portland, and that was because another midget, Damon was playing here.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Well this makes me think that ST might actually be the way to go...

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf?/base/sports/108539986129600.xml

STOMP


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>STOMP</b>!
> Well this makes me think that ST might actually be the way to go...
> 
> http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf?/base/sports/108539986129600.xml
> ...


ironically, and despite the fact I generally have little respect for Canzano, I actually agree with his point here. 

The thing the blazers don't need is a short, poor shooting PG. They already have 2 of those. They also have 2 other short PG's who aren't shooting good.


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## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

I hope we pass on this kid... like Hap said, we dont need another midget PG who cant shoot... although Damon's shot has improved, hopefully he'll continue to work on it this summer and get some consistency.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JohnnyCash</b>!
> ...although Damon's shot has improved, hopefully he'll continue to work on it this summer and get some consistency.


His shot has improved??? He's a career 41% shooter, this last year he shot 40%. I think he's already very consistent.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/damon_stoudamire/index.html

STOMP


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

Canzano is 100% wrong on Telfair...and that article of his is a complete joke.

I mean what are his reasons for not taking Telfair?

His shoe contract?
His "hype"?
His Cockiness?

Please, that is a joke. What does a shoe contract or the fact that a kid may be "overhyped" have to do with his ability? NOTHING

As for his cockiness, Is that a negative? Please... MOST NBA players are cocky of their abilites...What, MJ wasn't cocky? Kobe isn't cocky? Everybody praises Luke Jackson for being cocky (even Canzano) about his abilities, but he (Canzano) uses it as a negative against Telfair. Why the discrepency? Ok for one, but not the other?

As for the rest, (his size and his shot), give me a break. The kid is 18yrs old and measured in at 5'11, this is hardly too small. I love how an inch "seemingly" makes ALL the difference, what a joke. Is he even done growing yet height wise? Maybe...Maybe not. I see size didn't stop a SMALLER TJ Ford from being drafted at # 8 did it? And he can't shoot a lick from the outside, and doesn't have NEARLY the court awareness that Telfair has. 

How tall is Damon BTW? He ain't his listed 5'10, that is for sure, and he is more of a SG than a PG IMO and he has suceeded. A lot of us complain about Damon for his LACK of PG skills, something that Telfair has a ton of.

As for his shot, what HS kid DOES NOT have an inconsistent shot? Shooting can be improved through hard work. One of the positives of Telfair is that like Zach, he IS WILLING to put in the work to be "the best", and that is a HUGE positive IMO. He already has tremendous court awareness, something that CANNOT be taught, if he puts in the required work to improve his shot, then the sky is the limit for him.

Telfair is a risk, sure he is...but so is practically EVERY other player in this years draft outside of the top 5 picks (even a few within). I don't see another player with the potential ceiling that Telfair has being available either. To me, if he is there & no one has slipped, you roll the dice and take a chance with this kid. He already has the abilities to be a great NBA player, his work ethic (How bad he wants it) will determine his worth as an NBA player. He is worth the risk.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Telfair is a top-five talent who will go in the teens due to height.

If Telfair were 6'3''-6'4'', he'd probably be a lock for the top-three and be hyped as a potential top-two pick.

If height scares you off that much, that's fine. But I think his talent is the real deal. As KMurph said, what high schooler *doesn't* come in with a suspect shot? It was criticism #1 with LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, etc.

I think any time you get a chance at a top-five talent, when not picking in the top-five, you take it, even if there are risks. The most notable risk-takers in modern sports history have been the Timberwolves taking Kevin Garnett, the Lakers taking Kobe Bryant (through draft day trade), the Magic taking Tracy McGrady and the Vikings taking Randy Moss. Each team got a game-breaker for taking a top-five talent that fell due to a risk factor.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

I would prefer a tall 6’-3” PG if we are too get one just due to size. But, while watching a game I rarely think of Damon as a 5’-8” to 5’-10” PG. What I notice is his negatives we complain about... the dribbling the ball excessively, starting the plays late, running the offense, bad shot selection, etc.

If Telfair has those positive PG skills, I would most certainly look past his height quickly.

Does anyone know how his workout went?


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Kmurph</b>!
> The kid is 18yrs old and measured in at 5'11, this is hardly too small. I love how an inch "seemingly" makes ALL the difference, what a joke.


I wish they would have specified whether that measurement was done with or without shoes... I agree that 5'11 (barefoot) is at the bottom end of OK for a point IMO. 5'11 with shoes on could mean constant defensive mismatches all over again.

While my posting an anti-ST article by Canzano and saying the article was a reason to think he would be good was my little ironic joke, I've noticed that my posted concerns over his lack of composure/big ego are echoed in his bios in most of the mocks. This is one aspect that only actual interaction can measure. Confidence is generally a good thing, but like most everything, too much can be a bad thing. 

STOMP


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## TP3 (Jan 26, 2003)

All the successful HS to NBA players listed above are 2's, 3's, 4's, and 5's. When's the last hs pg to come in and have success in the playoffs. Isn't that what we want.

We NEED an experienced, competent floor leader at point guard. Someone who his teammates will respect, someone who knows who to get the ball to and when. Someone who will not melt in closing minutes but rise to the occasion. Would you take a high school quarterback to lead your NFL team?

Telfair isn't it solely because he has no experience. I mean, even Tony Parker melted in the playoffs and he's got a ring. 

Look at Derrick Martin last night. Average athlete but his experience as an NBA journeyman and CBA player has prepared and matured him into a player that can be successful in the biggest of games.

What our young team needs is a "rock" at the point. A guy who everyone else can look to and feel confident and calm. A model of consistency. 

We need a veteran or at worst a proven college pg.


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

You know who was the last superstar PG to come out of NY (after Kenny Anderson and Stephon Marbury)? Omar Cook. Just like Telfair he was billed as a fabulous passer but with no shot. And he's had a few years to develop. 

Now - he's not as fast as Telfair (I assume) - but Tyronn Lue is fast. And he's a lot taller than Telfair. So I say, stick with trying to develop Omar Cook and pass on Telfair (unless, say, he's there at 23). I think being overhyped all your life is a positive disadvantage. Anderson and Marbury are nothing like the players they were supposed to be (Anderson was rated the #1 prep player of his senior year. #2? Shaquille O'Neal.) And anyone remember Felipe Lopez?


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>meru</b>!
> You know who was the last superstar PG to come out of NY (after Kenny Anderson and Stephon Marbury)? Omar Cook. Just like Telfair he was billed as a fabulous passer but with no shot. And he's had a few years to develop.


Telfair has been playing and beating NBA players for the past few years, showing he has tremendous individual skills on top of his superior passing skills.

I don't recall hearing that about Omar Cook. Just because two guys come from the same place and have some similarities don't mean they have the same level of talent. Otherwise, Dan Dickau would be on his way to being the next Stockton.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> Telfair has been playing and beating NBA players for the past few years, showing he has tremendous individual skills on top of his superior passing skills.
> ...


I think you're definitely right about one thing: Telfair already has been playing against a lot of NBA competition, hanging out with his cousin in the off season. 

Re: Omar Cook. Omar was the 11th ranked player in the class of 2000 , incidentally Zach Randolph was #1 rated high schooler that year. Telfair is currently the #5 ranked player, all of this according to RSCI ratings. To me, that's pretty close to the same level of expectation for the two.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

Just to fuel the fire....I sent Canzano an email regarding his Telfair article, and I give him credit, he replied. Anyway some interesting info. One thing I do believe is that he has access to the "key" people (Nash, Warkentein, etc...) something which we do not, so IMO that has to be taken into account. Personally, I think he personally just doesn't like Telfair as a player. But, maybe it reflects some other information that I am not privy too. Anyhow, here is the exchange.



> John,
> 
> With all due respect, what is it in particular that you dislike about Telfair? His shoe contract? His hype? The fact that he is cocky? When was this ever viewed as a negative for an NBA player? Luke Jackson is every bit as cocky, and yet he is praised for it, but with Telfair you write it as if it is a negative. Why the discrepency?
> 
> ...





> Thanks for the note.
> 
> In the future, sign your name to your thoughts. It lends them more weight.
> 
> ...





> John,
> Wow, thanks for the quick reply. I find it hard to believe that Nash does not see potential in this draft (only 1 player? wow). That is the problem with today's draft, you have to wait a few years for these guys to develop, But what is POR rush? I seriously hope, they don't have this illusion that they can suddenly become title contenders by making a trade or two. Unless Tracy McGrady is coming it ain't happening. With Miles & Zach at 22, POR should add other youthful components and build for a future run. Making moves to get back in the playoffs is real short sighted IMO. The goal is to win a championship, not make the playoffs. There are several players here who in 2-3 years could be very good. I would hope POR mgmt has the foresight to see that.
> 
> As for Telfair, I disagree. I don't see another player more worthy of the #13 pick than him. That is, unless someone miraculously drops to POR, and I do not see that happening. Guys like Josh Childress, Tiago Splitter, Al Jefferson, Pavel Podkolzine & Kosta Perovic will probably be there and not one of them sounds more intriguing to me. I would take Telfair over Jameer Nelson anyday, and I do not think Luke merits the #13 pick. Who would you prefer POR takes at #13?
> ...





> I think there are two guards, maybe three going to college in this senior class about as good as Telfair.
> 
> Darius Washington going to Memphis
> Rondo (sp) going to Kentucky
> ...


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally written by <b>John Canzano</b>!
> 
> B) Telfair is a good player. But hes not worthy of the 13 pick and he won't be available at 23 because someone is going to get duped. Hes too small... the Blazers already have a pack of undersized guards... Telfair cant shoot.... he's awful from the outside... and hes about to be playing in a league that is going to take his first step away. He is a huge project with a lot of hype behind him and good bloodlines. Seemed like a nice kid, but if I'm the Blazers, I'll let Utah make this mistake.


Canzano didn't respond to a single one of your points in his reply about Telfair. He simply repeated himself.

Like many newspaper writers, they're fine in a talk-at, no-response forum like an article and really have no ability to debate intelligently when they are engaged in dialogue.


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## Perfection (May 10, 2004)

I'm not farmiliar with this John Canzano character, but from what I've read I wouldn't trust the guy. He is a journalist right?

Well, then he isn't a very good one. Journalists need to be good with the facts. In that article that was posted earlier, he says that Qyntel Woods is a high school project. Now while community college is not at the level of Division 1, it is most likely higher then high school.

Anyways, anyone that lets easy facts slip by that easily deserves to have some criticizism.

I think that Telfair will have a disadvantage becasue of his height...but who is to say that he won't grow another inch. He's only 18, and I know lots of people my age that are still growing somewhat. Regardless, he still could pan out to be a very good player. Just because your undersized doesn't mean you can't compete. Charles Barkley, Malik Rose and Ben Wallace can probably all attest to that. 

Apparently this kid has something special...and he knows how to distribute. As long as he improves his jumper, which will certainly happen, I think that his only liability is on the defensive end.....and with people like Ratliff on the inside it may be less of a problem.

I am a fan of tall guards. However, sometimes awsome players don't quite fit the mold. From what I've heard, Telfair is pretty hyped up....and I wouldn't be surpised if he busted. However, at the same time....after all his experiences and being able to compete so well at such a young age, you'd have to think that he could turn out to be a very good player.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JohnCanzano</b>!
> 
> I wrote that Portland had no intention of moving up based on the players they planned to work out. That's a no-brainer


It's even more of a no brainer not to factor in what the guy in charge of Portland's draft has to say about moving up, but thats the sort of journalism I've grown to expect from Canzano. Nash has stated within the last few days that the only team outside of those likely to be at the very top of the lotto who is having luck getting the top guys to show up for a workout is the Lakers. In other words... he'd like to have the top guys in, but they've declined. Nash stated that once the pre-draft starts they will make the call whether they want to move up (through packaging the picks ect...) and push for a specific player. 

STOMP


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

All I can really add to the discussion is how little statistical value a #13 pick has historically. Not much better, if at all, then the 17-21 we typically pick at. Point being, we're drafting for a prospect, not a proven commodity. If there's an extremely talented yet undeveloped prospect available, take it and move on. It's not likely it'll be a wasted rare trip to the lottery if it doesn't pan out, at least not any moreso than any other non-lottery slot.

Dan


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