# Game 2- Knicks Vs Magic on MSG 4PM



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

its a live broadcast. we'll see if channing can make up for his weak performance yesterday against a great big man in Dwight Howard.


----------



## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

Can someone get a little commentary going over here on the thread ? I don't get MSG but I want to know how Channing's working out.


----------



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

get in the nykfanpage.com chatroom at 4,ill be givin updates


----------



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

i think i can now safely say, that nate robinson is tremendously great. he gets into the paint at will (against jameer nelson) and makes shots with all the big men around him. hes too good. and hes got a good jumper. hes also held nelson and diener practically scoreless


frye still cant rebound. hes ........so soft.

ariza has more lift on his J..

bruno still sucks.

lee is good.


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

PennyHardaway said:


> i think i can now safely say, that nate robinson is tremendously great. he gets into the paint at will (against jameer nelson) and makes shots with all the big men around him. hes too good. and hes got a good jumper. hes also held nelson and diener practically scoreless
> 
> 
> frye still cant rebound. hes ........so soft.
> ...


penny,when you say Frye is soft...is there hope..is he at least skilled??
when you say Lee is good,are you saying good enough to let sweets go?


----------



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

frye had a fast break dunk with nate. but he doesnt fight for boards, he lets guys take anything. and he shoots a nice jumper...but he shoots it soft...everything he does feels so weak. also, no blocks yet

Nate just broke a double team, went down the lane and dished to bruno for 2. this kid is way too good.

and Lee is a good hustle guy. hes ambidextrous, can finish with both hands, so hes a hustle guy who can score.


----------



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

game over, Robinson finished with 24 points i believe. frye had 0 blocks 6 boards and around 14 points (10-10 from the line).

Nate is terrific, thats all i have to say about him.

at one point, he stole the ball, was fouled...but continued on...he put the ball around his back, threw it off the glass and dunked the **** out it.

i honestly can say that nate is probably already better then Earl. he hit some tough shots and is not scared to go to the rim.


----------



## Chef (Nov 24, 2002)

PennyHardaway said:


> game over, Robinson finished with 24 points i believe. frye had 0 blocks 6 boards and around 14 points (10-10 from the line).
> 
> Nate is terrific, thats all i have to say about him.
> 
> ...



I told you he was good :banana: 

Nate 4 ROY


----------



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

i know its just summerleague...

but.....

send marbury packin

nate the great has arrived


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

frye got 10 ft's in the game ...soft players dont go to the line that much.

nate was the best guy on the floor but he is not a point guard , he is out there looking for his shot and if he cant get one he passes....its hard to place him , he is obviously a good player and he looks like a steal at 21 ...but its summer league.

Tim Thomas should get used to coming off the bench , ariza is going to start this year unless the knicks get antione walker. Trevor is gonna be aload to handle this year , you can tell he is just skimming the surface of his potential.


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

disgruntledKNICKfan said:


> frye got 10 ft's in the game ...soft players dont go to the line that much.
> 
> nate was the best guy on the floor but he is not a point guard , he is out there looking for his shot and if he cant get one he passes....its hard to place him , he is obviously a good player and he looks like a steal at 21 ...but its summer league.
> 
> Tim Thomas should get used to coming off the bench , ariza is going to start this year unless the knicks get antione walker. Trevor is gonna be aload to handle this year , you can tell he is just skimming the surface of his potential.


WOW....thats what i dont get 10 ft's and you are soft??


----------



## Knicksfan3 (Jun 23, 2005)

Well I am loving the stats that Nate has been putting up so far, I know its summer league, but it is a very good sign.


----------



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

you didnt see the game. he got to the line on vlade divac type shots. it was all touch fouls. Notice he got 0 and1's. 

you cant say anything unless you saw it. he doesnt go to the glass for boards...he didnt even wanna get up to block a shot.


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

PennyHardaway said:


> you didnt see the game. he got to the line on vlade divac type shots. it was all touch fouls. Notice he got 0 and1's.
> 
> you cant say anything unless you saw it. he doesnt go to the glass for boards...he didnt even wanna get up to block a shot.


who are you talking to?

it cant be me because i did see the game...and he got fouled because he put himself in position to be fouled ...and he jumped for blocks whenever he got the chance ...too many times imo, sacrificing position for boards.

if you saw the game maybe you should have noticed .

also his last rebound with less than min. was an offensive board that allowed them to take 20 or so more seconds off the clock...basically cinching the victory...it looked like he fought for it to me.


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

PennyHardaway said:


> you didnt see the game. he got to the line on vlade divac type shots. it was all touch fouls. Notice he got 0 and1's.
> 
> you cant say anything unless you saw it. he doesnt go to the glass for boards...he didnt even wanna get up to block a shot.


lets just waive him


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Robinson is not a point guard. He's basically a change of pace scorer. He's great at it, but if you watch Boykins, you'd realize that Earl is not a playmaker, he is a scorer. He didn't score 25 ppg at Eastern Michigan for nothing.


----------



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

you guys are being a little too dramatic. im just telling you what i saw. the box score doesnt always tell the whole story. Until i see frye grabbing defensive boards consistently (which he hasnt), and block some shots (he hasnt) i will be disapointed. This is a lottery pick who we drafted for defensive purposes, and he hasnt done anything there.

and please, even KVH got to the line quite a few times here, hes still soft as hell. just the way he plays is soft.

and dont tell me he fought for boards, cause REPEATEDLY he let guys walk in front of him and take it. check orlandos offensive boards when the box score comes in. Frye even missed an easy board off a missed free throw on his side. you just cant have that.

he is SKILLED, he has a hook shot, and a nice mid range J,but hes soft.


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

HKF said:


> Robinson is not a point guard. He's basically a change of pace scorer. He's great at it, but if you watch Boykins, you'd realize that Earl is not a playmaker, he is a scorer. He didn't score 25 ppg at Eastern Michigan for nothing.


are you saying he is more of a backup 2 guard????

so jc is really a backup 1?


----------



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

Nate is a good passer as well. he found a few guys backdoor and plays the pick n roll well. sure hes a scorer, but thats what we really needed as our backup point. Moochie, brewer and jackson bringing the ball up and swinging it around wasnt doing **** for us. Our second unit couldnt score at all. Nate can make something out of nothing.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

truth said:


> are you saying he is more of a backup 2 guard????
> 
> so jc is really a backup 1?


No he's a backup PG without question, but he's not a pure point. He's a shoot first point guard. However, so is Boykins. All I'm saying, is that Nate Robinson is a high energy player who will come in and shoot the ball. He's not a ball hog, but he can get his shot. Most NBA teams take scoring where they can get it off the bench. He does make plays out there, but I wouldn't expect him to be getting 6-8 dimes regularly. He's a scorer, who can pass. Not a passer, who can score.


----------



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

and he will take it to the rim way more then he will pull up for the J. Earl Boykins settles for the jumper like 70 percent of the time. 

and Nate doesnt get blocked down there either. he absorbs contact and puts the ball in the hoop. hes gonna be a fan favorite easily.


----------



## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

yea i really like the way nates been playing ...

watching him throw the ball off the glass and dunk was crazy seeing how small he is...even though it is summer league im impressed and happy that he is a knick....


----------



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

http://www.vegassummerleague.com/box_score.cfm?game=12

thats the box score. frye had 5 offensive boards,but only one defensive board. but this was only in 21 minutes, so we are seeing an improvement in his rebounding,but he really could have had around 10 or 11.


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

PennyHardaway said:


> http://www.vegassummerleague.com/box_score.cfm?game=12
> 
> thats the box score. frye had 5 offensive boards,but only one defensive board. but this was only in 21 minutes, so we are seeing an improvement in his rebounding,but he really could have had around 10 or 11.



like i said he was going for too many blocks sacrificing his position for boards ...in that case its up to the other players to rebound the missed shots.

but even so 6 boards in 21 min. is a good rate 1 reb per. 3.5 min....these knicks need to play much better defense on the whole they are allowing something like 55-56% shooting in 2 games.


----------



## azswami (Mar 26, 2003)

disgruntledKNICKfan said:


> like i said he was going for too many blocks sacrificing his position for boards ...in that case its up to the other players to rebound the missed shots.


Channing is going to have an adjustment period in the NBA - bigger, stronger guys. His defensive rebounding will improve once he learns he can't block every shot taken by Yao Ming and the like. He's a quick learner and a student of the game. While I disagree with the 'soft' label, he is still a finesse player. 

On the other hand, Nate won't have near the adjustment period since he's never faced a smaller player. Will he face a quicker player in the NBA? Iffy on that one.


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

disgruntledKNICKfan said:


> like i said he was going for too many blocks sacrificing his position for boards ...in that case its up to the other players to rebound the missed shots.
> 
> but even so 6 boards in 21 min. is a good rate 1 reb per. 3.5 min....these knicks need to play much better defense on the whole they are allowing something like 55-56% shooting in 2 games.


DNF,I cant believe we are talking about this after 2 summer games...Dwight Howard had 5 boards yesterday,is he being questioned in Orlando??

We do need a bit more bulk in the middle....


----------



## alphadog (Jan 2, 2004)

*Truth...*

Penny is full of crap. I watched the game...twice. You will like Frye...he's smart active and polished. He would have had 11 boards if he had played 35 minutes. I don't see the blocked shots but I didn't see any from anyone else either. Just one blocked dunk on Lee. He gets ahead on the break...plays very good help defense and didn't really get beat much man on man. Nice passer and shooter. He ain't soft and his fouls weren't Divac type either. He gets to the line because he attacks the rim on offense and the boards. At this point he is a better offensive rebounder than defensive but just because he was #8 doesn't mean he is as good as it gets. Sweetney was 9...I'll take Frye at the same stage. He could have scored 20+ with no problem...they didn't look for him much at all.

Nate is exciting but it's still summer league. He got beat quite a bit but the shots were missed. Little careless with his passes but can make the great one. Seems to get in the lane at will and finishes strong. After guys learn him, it'll be interesting to see if he can still get to the hole at this level. Will need to hit the J with regularity to be very good. Very strong.

Lee is going to be good. He needs a year or 2 with the weights and he has a chance to be a real good 4. Good with both hands and has a ton of energy and athleticism. Keeper. 

I also like what I saw from Douglas. He works hard on D and obviously can score (led the country in scoring?). At 6'4 he might be a bit on the smallish side for a 2, but not much. There is rally some talent on this squad...we just need to be patient.


----------



## Knick49 (Jul 8, 2005)

This was taken from today's Daily News:

FIRST IMPRESSIONS: Nate Robinson continues to be the most impressive of the Knicks' three first-round draft picks. Yesterday, he scored a game-high 24 points on 6-for-13 shooting.

Meanwhile, Channing Frye is struggling to adjust to a quicker, more physical style. Frye, the eighth overall pick, made 2 of 5 shots, scored 14 points and had six rebounds and five fouls in 21minutes.

While some have been quick to anoint Frye the steal of the draft, Knicks assistant coach Mark Aguirre offered a refreshing take on the 6-11 rookie.

"I like where he is now but he doesn't know the NBA game," Aguirre said. "He doesn't know leverage yet, he doesn't know angles yet. He doesn't know how to lock people yet and those are things you have to know. He doesn't know that yet but he will.

"He's strong enough to be effective in the post. He just has to learn how to do it."


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

What Acguire is really saying is that Frye is not Shaqlike or Amarelite and cant dominate on pure athleticism..Thats no suprise..Frye is a good athlete but not offf the charts..But he can shoot,run an will be a fundamentally sound player....which is what mark is referring to...

He will be more Mchale/Duncan lite lite,than the freaky Amare or monstorous Shaq..


----------



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

they did look for frye early on the in the post(quite alot), but howard was denying him the ball, and they also had a man behind him, so it was impossible to get him the ball.

and going up for blocks isnt an excuse to not rebound. Most decent( and good and great) shotblockers in the league are also good at grabbing defensive boards. and also he didnt go up for blocks as much as you said, and he didnt box out much at all on D. He does a good job playing straight up one on one man defense, hes good at denying a post entry pass, but his help D isnt really there, and with steph and jamal up top, its a little bothering.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

truth said:


> DNF,I cant believe we are talking about this after 2 summer games...Dwight Howard had 5 boards yesterday,is he being questioned in Orlando??
> 
> We do need a bit more bulk in the middle....


Howard avg. over 10 rebounds as a 19 year old rookie. C'mon man.

12.0 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 1.66 bpg 52% from the field. That's why Orlando fans don't care what Howard does in Summer league, because he's proven he can dominate NBA players on the glass, being 3 years younger than Frye.


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

PennyHardaway said:


> He does a good job playing straight up one on one man defense, hes good at denying a post entry pass, but his help D isnt really there, and with steph and jamal up top, its a little bothering.


Penny,this is my biggest problem with Steph...He may no longer be able to stop dribble penetration...JC is much longer than Steph and quicker.I think he defends 1's much better than Steph...I would prefer Steph use his strength and cover 2's...

If you insist on Steph playing the 1,you really need a shot blocker in the midddle..Hunter/James may be the answer...


----------



## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

theres no reason frye cant be a shotblocker, hes built like camby, he just doesnt have the camby intensity.....

he has to box out too...i mean all these things i dont like about him, they all can be fixed with some work. i like his game, he just needs to tweak some parts


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

HKF said:


> Howard avg. over 10 rebounds as a 19 year old rookie. C'mon man.
> 
> 12.0 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 1.66 bpg 52% from the field. That's why Orlando fans don't care what Howard does in Summer league, because he's proven he can dominate NBA players on the glass, being 3 years younger than Frye.


the point being,2 summer league games mean squat


----------



## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

PennyHardaway said:


> theres no reason frye cant be a shotblocker, hes built like camby, he just doesnt have the camby intensity.....
> 
> he has to box out too...i mean all these things i dont like about him, they all can be fixed with some work. i like his game, he just needs to tweak some parts


i got the impression from reading your posts you thohought he was supersoft and not NBA material


----------



## ERAFF (Jun 27, 2005)

"theres no reason frye cant be a shotblocker, hes built like camby, he just doesnt have the camby intensity....."

Camby is an amazing weakside help defender...health issues aside, one of the better wekside defenders/shotblockers I've EVER seen. It's about unique talent---every tall, skinny intense guy can't do what he does!

Again, not a giagantic Frye fan, but willing to let him play and grow his own game(and then judge!). Apparently he does some things pretty well and he has some upside---let's wait to see what he is.


----------



## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

PennyHardaway said:


> theres no reason frye cant be a shotblocker, hes built like camby, he just doesnt have the camby intensity.....
> 
> he has to box out too...i mean all these things i dont like about him, they all can be fixed with some work. i like his game, he just needs to tweak some parts


come on - we cant compare frye to camby defensively at all, it doesnt matter how he's build, he's just not as athletic. camby was an absolute force in college on defense, frye didnt show anything like that.


----------



## Biggestfanoftheknicks (Apr 14, 2005)

Debt Collector said:


> come on - we cant compare frye to camby defensively at all, it doesnt matter how he's build, he's just not as athletic. camby was an absolute force in college on defense, frye didnt show anything like that.



Thank you, Camby is an athletic beast who has impecable timing. Channing is not that way.

It's great to say Nate doing so well dude is talented, however he MUST develop a shot like Earl's ( who can shoot over the top of nearly anyone) driving and slashing against the summer league is one thing, against the real league its another. I'm glad to see him doing well I told you all he would be woth the #30 pick, I'm glad we got him earlier. Kid is talented and doesn't take nights off, something we need around here.



I don't know about this David Lee guy but he seems to be good and I'm excited for him to do well. Does he look like he could play his way into being a starter?


----------

