# You Just Have To Love That Otis Thorpe Trade Don't You??



## kingofkings

It is kind of like an early christmas present. The Grizzlies had since the trade in 1997, to get better fast , but the conditions of the pick has come back to haunt them.

Now, it is almost like a bonus of taking a future superstar from a free pick.

This pick, could be like the one that the Clippers gave away to the 76ers for the rights to Charles Barkely in the 1984 draft. They traded a future number one pick to the 76ers for World B Free in 1978. Six years later the Clippers were still horrible and the 76ers owned that pick and took Charles Barkely.

But, could the Pistons get screwed and have to wait yet another year for the pick to be parlayed?? Consider this:

The Grizzlies own the Rockets pick. Assuming that the Rockets slide and maybe miss the playoffs, the pick goes to the Grizzlies unprotected. Now, maybe the Rockets get the number two pick from the back of the pack like last year. Then assume that the Grizzlies get the number one pick. The Grizzlies can perhaps take both James and Darko, if eligible. Can you imagine that scenario??

The Pistons would get screwed and have to wait until next year to get the pick unprotected.

I just feel sorry for the Grizzlies management, having to convey a high lottery pick for a guy that was past his prime and gave considerable very little, in Otis Thorpe.Just a real added bonus for the Pistons to chew on.

It might have seemed a long time ago, when the Thorpe trade was made, but time has a way of taking time and the Grizzlies have to just suck it up and cop it on the chin.

I assume that you guys are cheering on and counting the Grizzlies losses up?? But remember that scenario that I outlined and hopefully,as a Raptor fan, you guys get screwed this year, out of that pick!!!!


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## jvanbusk

First to answer your two questions:

Yes, I love that Otis Thorpe trade.

Yes, we are cheering on and counting the Grizzlies losses.

This pick could put the Pistons over the top in a few years. Chances are by resigning Rip Hamilton and the possible resignings of JB and Cliff, this will leave us no money in free agency. This puts a heavy burden on the pick turning out to be one in which we get a superstar. We're not going to have the money to go out and get a Brad Miller or Michael Olowokandi (with the other pieces returning) therefore we need to hope to get that type of player in the NBA draft. Milicic could be that guy. Bosh could be that guy. Carmelo Anthony could be that guy. We could use that pick and trade for an established player like Elton Brand. It shows how valuable this pick is going to be. I have a little sympathy for the Grizzlie franchise, but hey I'm not going to cry about it. This is going to make the Pistons team that much better....


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## kingofkings

The only thing of major concern is that the Grizzlies get the number one pick this year and then next year really start to turn the franchise around and build some wins. Then you wait to receive next years pick unprotected, when the Grizzlies could be a better team. Hence a lower draft pick.That would really screw you.

In my opinion, Brand would not really work out for the Pistons. One because, both Wallace and Brand, would give the Pistons a starting front line of 2 6'8 players. I know that they get the job done, but still, that would be of concern night in and night out. 

Secondly, these two guys want to crash the boards hard, on every play. You need to keep the keys relatively open, on offense, to create room for your cutters to receive the entry pass. With both of them down low,the whole offense, will be cramped up and will limit the space and area for the likes of Rip and Billups to move without the ball.

You need a mobile rebounder,inside scorer. A Drew Gooden/Pau Gasol type player.A guy that can take some of the rebounding heat of Wallace and can get the ball down low and finish the play. I have no doubt that if Gasol was with the Pistons, in a new system, he will be a solid defensive player. 

How about this deal. Cliff Robinson and the Grizzlies pick back, plus another lottery protected pick,for Gasol and Michael Dickerson?? Cliff gives the Grizzlies cap relief at the end of the year, by not being resigned. But, to take Gasol, you must take on the atrocity of Michael Dickersons contract. The Grizzlies get the cap relief that they are after, in Cliff and Dickerson and have Gooden hopefully taking up Gasol's role. If the Grizzlies want cap relief that badly, then they have to make sacrifices.You just cannot have things both ways. They are not winning now, so why not get some cap room and start over yet again??

Gasol on the Pistons, will be in the right structure and will relieve the burden on Hamilton and Billups, to score the majority of the points. Has anyone seen once Gasol gets on a role, he can heat up real damn fast. A shotblocking tandem and rebounding combo with Wallace and the Pistons will be set.

No player is untradeable in this league. Needing and desiring cap room has made all players to a degree tradeable.If the Grizzlies want to start over and want to get some cap relief they have to make some sacrifices. Something has got to give. He might seem to be untradeable at the minute, but anything can happen.


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## kingofkings

On another issue, would trading the pick for a player that has already proved himself be that bad?

Why I say that, is that it seems to just keep getting harder and harder, to really pick a future talent in the NBA. Given the struggles with Chandler, Curry, Williams, etc the added risk of not wanting to blow the pick is huge.

Just because someone has the tools to be great does not mean that he is going to succeed. So many other factors come into play, in a players development. Such as the team structure, playing time,players around him, skills training, etc etc.

All you can really do in the draft is to take the best and most talented player available at the time. Whether it is a high schooler, freshman, senior, etc. That to me is really the way to go.

Problems with drafting a player, in my opinion, mainly come in drafting a guy and trying to mold him into a player that he is not. That is where problems lie.

So, with the Grizzlies pick, assuming they do not trade it, just take the best player available and not look to draft for need.

But that being said, the lure of a replacement for Cliff, or an inside player/rebounder would still be a need.


Whether that guy is Darko or Anthony, so be it....


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## kingofkings

Yahoo sports has announced that Darko will be eligible for the 2003 draft. That really throws a spanner in the works now. I have never seen him play, but if the hype is true and correct, he could be that long,rebounder,inside/outside player that will really complement Wallace.

The Grizzlies fortunes now have gone up a notch and the heat will be rising. The Pistons want that pick now!!! Not have to wait another year. Man if I was the Grizzlies, I would try and win and win some more.They need as much talent as they can get and cannot afford the blundered Otis Thorpe trade to give up a potential superstar that Darko is being projected.

Grizzlies management before Jerry West really did not have a clue:

1) Giving a huge contract to Shareef - he deserves an above average contract but near on max??

2) Giving a huge contract to Michael Dickerson

3) Paying over excessively to Jason Williams - Why pay your team leader so much money, when the team cannot win?? Why try to dump his salary now, after extending him to a large contract?Deal with the fact that no-one wants to have players taking up large amounts of the cap if they are not difference makers.


4) The Otis Thorpe trade

5) Drafting Stromile Swift



The draft starts to get interesting now. The Pistons can really make a move in the East, if they receive a top three pick, from the Grizzlies.

I have a feeling that Dumars will keep this pick if it is top 4 or 5. Unless something really really blows him away that he cannot turn down.

No need to make any trades by the deadline now in my opinion. Cliff comes off the books, resign Rip at the end of the year, hope no one offers him an over excessive contract that they have to match. Future looks solid.

Check out this extract of what Thorpe gave to the Grizzlies. Don't laugh too hard. I mean what a real waste!!!!

................................................................................
This year the season started with a lot of promise with the Grizzlies flirting with .500 to start the season, led by the acquisition of Otis Thorpe. Thorpe, unfortunately, became a locker room cancer when the season turned sour and was dealt to another NBA outpost in Sacramento. 
..................................................................................................

And another extract


August 7, 1997: “Otis gets his wish” 

The Detroit Pistons sent F Otis Thorpe to the Vancouver Grizzlies in exchange for a conditional first round draft pick. 

Note: The pick will be from selections 2 through 18. Vancouver may convey the pick to Detroit between 1998 and 2003. The Grizzlies must inform Detroit of the plans involving the draft pick by June 1st of each year. 

1997 - 1998 Salaries: 

Otis Thorpe, Van.: $5.8 M 

Who got the better of the deal? 

Vancouver. 

Why? 

Otis Thorpe requested a trade after the 1996 - ‘97 season. He and Detroit head coach Doug Collins had a public feud and could no longer co - exist. Thorpe will give Vancouver a quality rebounder which the Grizzlies have sorely lacked. He will also provide veteran leadership to young players like C Bryant Reeves and F Shareef Abdur - Rahim and F Roy Rogers. With Thorpe, Vancouver becomes the only NBA team to have 3 rebounders rank in the top 40 from last season. 

Otis will make $5.8 M for the ‘97 - ‘98 season and $6.0 M for the ‘98 - ‘99 season. 

Detroit was looking to trade Thorpe, as he requested, and free up salary cap room. They obtained a first round pick for Otis just as they had traded a first round pick to acquire Otis from Portland in 1995. With a salary cap space of $5.8 M created, Detroit hopes to utilize it and re - sign free agents G Lindsey Hunter and F Terry Mills plus free agent F / C Brian Williams. 

They said at the time that the Grizzlies got the better deal. They must have assumed that they were going to get better since that trade and the pick was not going to be in the lottery.


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## Brian.

I agree with what KOK has said above and just to add my .02...

This is going to be a very important summer for the pistons draft wise.

The worst case scenario as KOK mentioned above is that memphis does land the #1 this year. I think by next year the grizz will be a boardline playoff team meaning the pistons would get a mid first round pick and that would not be good. So the pistons desperately need the grizz to get the 2nd or 3rd pick this year. Their are no centers worth taking that high which IMO is the pistons biggest need but their second biggest need is SF and that is where the pistons could score big time. Lebron will be taking #1 barring injuries so that would leave the pistons with either Darko and Carmelo. Darko from the best of my knowledge is basically Nowitki with a little better inside game. While Carmelo is a lot like Pippen. If Memphis ends up getting the 4 or 5th pick or later the pistons may try to trade it back to the grizz for Gasol which would not be bad deal IMO. Hopefully the pistons will end up with Darko, Carmelo or Gasol this summer.


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## kingofkings

I would agree with that. Of course, we do not know what Dumars is thinking or what his intentions are, but to me the backcourt is set with Rip and Billups. The holes are the three spot and the 4/5 spot, depending where you see Wallace playing.

Anthony, on potential would be that big small forward, that it looks like the Pistons are going to need. But, Milicic would provide that centre/power forward, that compliments the grinding last line play of Ben Wallace.

I wonder now, if Jerry West wants to make a deal now, to either get better and hope that the pick is between 5-10, to convey to Detroit, or if he wants to deal for that pick back.

If he wants the pick back, the deal should be for Gasol and nothing more. The Pistons have the upper hand in this scenario. Gasol is already pretty polished at this early stage and in the right environment on a winning team, he could really blossom and go to the next level. He might be an untouchable, but any player is tradeable in the right deal.

I would take Gasol, over Darko in this scenario, as we know what Gasol will give you. He has proved himself to an extent. Has Milicic, or Anthony done the same in the West on a consistent level??

The options for the Pistons are numerous now. Dumars can sit back, wait and make the right decision. No need to rush into anything now.

Draft Anthony with Memphis pick - Look to sign a power forward with the money that Cliff leaves coming off the books. Also needing to resign Hamilton. Must sacrifice one player on the roster for this to happen though.

Draft a power forward - look to the Clippers to steal an Odom or a Maggette, for the three spot, for just above the mid level or maybe 6 million plus per year.


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## Brian.

> Originally posted by <b>kingofkings</b>!
> I would agree with that. Of course, we do not know what Dumars is thinking or what his intentions are, but to me the backcourt is set with Rip and Billups. The holes are the three spot and the 4/5 spot, depending where you see Wallace playing.
> 
> Anthony, on potential would be that big small forward, that it looks like the Pistons are going to need. But, Milicic would provide that centre/power forward, that compliments the grinding last line play of Ben Wallace.


From everything that I have read on Darko, he is not big enough to play the 5 and since ben is one of best 4's in the game if we do get Darko he would probably play sf.



> I would take Gasol, over Darko in this scenario, as we know what Gasol will give you. He has proved himself to an extent. Has Milicic, or Anthony done the same in the West on a consistent level??


I agree with you gasol is a safe sure bet while the others are still unknowns.



> Draft Anthony with Memphis pick - Look to sign a power forward with the money that Cliff leaves coming off the books. Also needing to resign Hamilton. Must sacrifice one player on the roster for this to happen though.


Everything that I hear is uncle cliffy will be back with the pistons infact they are working on a deal right now. I would be shocked if he is not a piston next year.



> Draft a power forward - look to the Clippers to steal an Odom or a Maggette, for the three spot, for just above the mid level or maybe 6 million plus per year.


I have heard alot of good things about maggette if we can't swing a deal for gasol, darko, or carmelo I would be happy with maggette.


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## kingofkings

If I was Dumars I would leave resigning Cliff until after the draft has taken place. Sure he has played resonably well and done some good things for the Pistons, but he will be 37 this year. They are going to have to search for his predecessor sooner or later, so why not let it happen sooner.

Of course, Dumars will not pay over excessively for Cliff, but nothing should be done until after the draft has taken place. There is too much water to go under the bridge until then.

Maybe a veterans minumum is what he would get, assuming other teams would not want to look at him due to his age and the possibility that his age will finally catch up with him, which he has not ever had a problem with.

Remember, anything can happen in free agency this year, especially with the Clippers situation. But nothing should be done until after the draft. That is where the future of the Pistons will be determined.


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## Brian.

> Originally posted by <b>kingofkings</b>!
> If I was Dumars I would leave resigning Cliff until after the draft has taken place. Sure he has played resonably well and done some good things for the Pistons, but he will be 37 this year. They are going to have to search for his predecessor sooner or later, so why not let it happen sooner.
> 
> Of course, Dumars will not pay over excessively for Cliff, but nothing should be done until after the draft has taken place. There is too much water to go under the bridge until then.
> 
> Maybe a veterans minumum is what he would get, assuming other teams would not want to look at him due to his age and the possibility that his age will finally catch up with him, which he has not ever had a problem with.
> 
> Remember, anything can happen in free agency this year, especially with the Clippers situation. But nothing should be done until after the draft. That is where the future of the Pistons will be determined.


I hate to always agree with you because it doesn't make for a good debate but I also do think the pistons should hold off on resigning cliffy. Last year he bombed come playoff time so I want to see what he does in this years playoffs before we give him another contract.


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## kingofkings

Like I have said before, the right player for the Pistons for next season is a centre or another big guy that can roam and freelance a bit.

Why I say this, is that you need to play to your strengths. This is having Ben Wallace ready down low, to rebound and start the fast break. So, you need another guy, who can roam around and cover his immediate defender from the blocks to the perimeter.

You do not want Wallace coming out and being forced to cover a player that can shoot the long ball. That will just expose the Pistons lack of rebounders and exploit the team in that regard.

That is why I say they need a mobile big man. Someone like a Gasol, or a Gooden type of player. A guy that can move around and be active. The last thing you want, is having two big men stationery down low. Like I have said, you need to create room for your workers, the guys that need the ball to be good players. You need to give them the ball in places where they can score from. You need them to be able to be free to move and create.You need to keep the lanes as free as you can on offense for this to happen.

A couple of years ago, when I tried out, all the offensive game plans were about creating space for manouverablity and creation in the offense.


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