# Marbury refuses chance to play (All Marbury Related Topics)



## knicksfan

What a class act, what a teammate, what a great guy. During this season he's went from one of my favorite basketball players ever, and a guy who I thought was horribly misunderstood to a joke. 

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/55599/20081121/marbury_refuses_chance_to_play/#

“He said the direction of the team went in a different direction, he wasn’t comfortable with the situation, and he did not want to play.” (Part of the article)


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## thaKEAF

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

I don't have a problem with him not playing. D'antoni made it known that Marbury wasn't part of the team's plans, the only reason he offered him PT was because they had hardly anyone last night. Don't come calling when you desperately need me is how I'd feel too.


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## Blue

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

It's funny how management and front-office types always look out for their best interests @ the players' expense and ppl say nothing, yet when a player looks out for his interests and whats best for him @ the organizations expense, he gets flamed by the fans..... I mean its a two way relationship. They treat you like ****, then they should get **** back.

So props to Steph for doing what he did. He was playing well in pre-season and even said that he would embrace a bench role to make it work if that's what was needed from him..... then all of a sudden they bench him for no apparent reason when the seaso rolls around and throw him under the bus like he's trash? And now they want him to play when they're desperate for a go-to-player or somethin? lmao. If I was Steph I would laugh in their face too. He's just chillin now and getting paid, and he's laughing @ their expense all the way to the bank. The Knicks ****ed it up, not Steph. Steph would do anything for that town, you know that knicksfan, and the lack of respect he gets from that organization is a joke.

In this situation, there is a fine line between being a professional as to why he should or should not honor his commitments, (to the supervisor that expects his employee to), and one that is just a greedy malcontent....but when management has continually put the employee in a demeaning situation, one has to look at both sides regardless of the history there.

On one hand, Marbury is being paid a ton of money to do as asked. On the other hand, he has been treated poorly......He should've get a chance with the new regime from jump......jmo tho. There is no reason to ever intentionally humiliate anyone like It seemed D'Antoni did.... Now he wants to wants to play nice w/ him now that he needs players? FOH, im with Steph on this one. 

Go Steph! :clap:


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## knicksfan

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

He's GETTING PAID 20 million dollars a year to do what is asked of him. If I was Walsh, I suspend him indefinitely and ask that he lose his contract for ensubordination(SP) He deserves to lose the money owed to him for that prank.


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## thaKEAF

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

He was getting paid to play basketball and they obviously didn't want him to do that til they made these trades and needed him. What difference will a suspension make? He already hasn't played this season anyways. He won't lose any money for this, maybe a fine but even that would be on some petty bull****. The Knicks made their intentions clear so it's not like Steph is in the wrong here.


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## Blue

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*



knicksfan said:


> He's GETTING PAID 20 million dollars a year to do what is asked of him. If I was Walsh, I suspend him indefinitely and ask that he lose his contract for ensubordination(SP) He deserves to lose the money owed to him for that prank.


I understand your a knicks fan and you want dude to play for you but dont be mad @ Marbury for this, be mad @ your damn coach and management and PRAY that you land that superstar in 2010! Marbury showed up to camp in shape and ready to go and D'Antoni pretty much said '**** you I dont want/need you', so now he's getting a '**** you' right back. Steph was one of my favorite players and the way they have treated him in NY is terrible. I would never play for that organization again if I were him either, and that's dudes hometown team.... He spent his entire career trying to play for NY and then whe he gets their they want to treat him like ****? You cant say he wouldnt give it his all for that team, but this is about principles now and the knicks have tried the **** out of him.


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## Bartholomew Hunt

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

None of you know what goes on behind closed doors.


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## Bartholomew Hunt

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

Neither do I by the way.


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## knicksfan

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*



thaKEAF said:


> He was getting paid to play basketball and they obviously didn't want him to do that til they made these trades and needed him. What difference will a suspension make? He already hasn't played this season anyways. He won't lose any money for this, maybe a fine but even that would be on some petty bull****. The Knicks made their intentions clear so it's not like Steph is in the wrong here.


He's getting paid 20 million to PLAY BASKETBALL. He refused to do what? PLAY BASKETBALL. If I was Donnie Walsh, he WOULD lose the rest of the salary owed to him this year for insubbordination, force the player's union to appeal that and let's go from there. I want Donnie to show some bal-s here and send the point that you don't refuse an order to enter the ballgame. Point is, what he did was clearly insubordination. He violated the terms of his contract, and it should be deemed invalid as a result.


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## thaKEAF

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

lol okay but you're not Donnie. So we'll see what happens, I think you're going a little over the edge on this situation.


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## HB

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

Getting mad at a guy for actually showing some pride is baffling. D'Antoni disrespected him, and now that the team is pretty much headed for the lottery he decides to offer an olive branch to Marbury. The only reason why I can tell Steph to take the offer is to increase his value and get out of NY as soon as he can.


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## Blue

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

Even if he's suspended for 'conduct detrimental to the team' or whatever, he will still be getting paid so it's moot. You'll just be in the exact same situation and you guys still gotta pay him regardless..... 

And he would've played his *** off for the Knicks this year too but D'Antoni and Walsh already ****ed that up... member?


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## alphaorange

*What a bunch of tools....*

Its simple. He is an employee under contract. You do what you are told...period. I'm not mad and I don't hate anybody, but as the players are constantly saying....its a business. This disrespect crap is just that, crap. Christ, they didn't treat him like a god...they embarrassed him...wah, wah, wah. Anybody that uses that crap-*** excuse for not doing something they don't want to do is a whiner and a baby. I've got news for you, respect is earned, not guaranteed.


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## Cager

*Re: What a bunch of tools....*



alphaorange said:


> Its simple. He is an employee under contract. You do what you are told...period. I'm not mad and I don't hate anybody, but as the players are constantly saying....its a business. This disrespect crap is just that, crap. Christ, they didn't treat him like a god...they embarrassed him...wah, wah, wah. Anybody that uses that crap-*** excuse for not doing something they don't want to do is a whiner and a baby. I've got news for you, respect is earned, not guaranteed.


Absolutely correct.

Steph forfeited his right to be disrespected by his actions over the last three years. If he does want to play hard ball though, the Knicks should see what they can do to Marbury for refusing to play.


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## Blue

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

It is only Knicks fans who look @ Marbury as obligated to play now becuase of his contract.... everyone else can see how they treated Steph and how they hung him out in public earlier in the year. When did Steph ever disrespect the Knick's organization in public? He hasn't, it was always the other way around. Steph is just playing the game they wanted to play bro... Remember when he was ready to play basketball, how D'Antoni clowned him? member that?? Thats when the 'hard ball' started bro, not from Marbury's end.... 

As for Marbury refusing to play, you can buy him out for his owed salary like he said, and he will go away..... You guys ****ed up any opportunity of utilizing his talents the moment you clowned him in public like he was worthless. If he is soo bad, then why do they even need or want him now? It's not like he came to camp fat & out of shape or anything.... He's the same guy now he was a month ago..... what's changed?


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## USSKittyHawk

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

Props to Blue Magic, Keaf and HB, I share the same thoughts I don't have to add much else. Like I said in the Steph thread weeks ago, that they are going to call him when they need him and he was going to refuse to play. Where was the outrage from some Knicks fans on this board when his 21 million dollar behind wasn't allowed to play? Pot called the Kettle Black up in here for real, he did the right thing good for him! I can't wait until he is finally gone so he can play ball, unfortunately it never worked out for him here, but it's quite funny how some people think he is the anti-Christ now. He is still that dude, a guy who donates his millions to charities all throughout the community is a hero to me, **** what he did on the court I still like him.


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## eddymac

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

Its about principal, they told Marbury that they were going in another direction and he was not apart of it. Plus they pretty much humilated him in the process, I know about Marbury's history and everything. But he was never given a fair chance under the new regime. Now all of a sudden some players get traded away and you come running back to him when you have no choice, I commend Marbury for not playing. If they would have handled the situation better, they wouldn't have been in this mess. So lets say Marbury played last night, once the new players arrived in town Marbury would be right back where he was before the trade anyway. So either way D'Antoni is looked as the good guy and Marbury looks like the jerk.


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## knicksfan

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

GUYS, for crying out loud as long as he's getting paid he should do what the coach asks of him, he can't flat out ignore a request to enter the ballgame. As for this garbage about "bailing D'Antoni out" it's not like this was game 7 of the NBA finals or anything, it just comes down to the actions taken. He violated the terms of his contract, and he should be released with cause and the Knicks shouldn't owe him a penny. Same thing happened to Lane Kiffin, coach of the Raiders, only he didn't actually REFUSE to participate LOL. Marbury did, and he should face the same consequences.


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## Kiyaman

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*



knicksfan said:


> GUYS, for crying out loud as long as he's getting paid he should do what the coach asks of him, he can't flat out ignore a request to enter the ballgame. As for this garbage about "bailing D'Antoni out" it's not like this was game 7 of the NBA finals or anything, it just comes down to the actions taken. He violated the terms of his contract, and he should be released with cause and the Knicks shouldn't owe him a penny. Same thing happened to Lane Kiffin, coach of the Raiders, only he didn't actually REFUSE to participate LOL. Marbury did, and he should face the same consequences.



*Great Point.* 
This only prove that Dantoni & Walsh are not on the same page. 
Crawful should've been traded on draft night for some young players. 
Dantoni started this season off as if Crawful would be our first option 
on offense the entire season. And Walsh trades him after the 11 game. 

I am so happy that Marbury refused to play for Dantoni.... b/c his Manhood Brooklyn Rep was on the line.... someone need to shuuut all over Dantoni to let him know he's in New York Now 

What we must not forget is NBA Politic-ing.... Marbury is his own agent and could pull this stunt for 2 to 3 straight games untill an agreement is met with him, Walsh, and Dantoni. And nine out of ten.... Mills or Dolan will be present at this meeting to confirm the agreement that is met. 
We are talking about a $22M product that Dantoni publically humilliated. 
Marbury vs Dantoni and Marbury vs Bum Timmy Thomas 
The Knick show is about to get Hot.

Knickfan, the best comment I can give you is......

*It's called NBA POLITIC-ING!!!*


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## NewAgeBaller

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

I'm with Blue Magic, Keaf, HB & Kitty.

If you're gona lead him on to play, then embarass him in the MSG by not giving him a single minute, then tell him he's "not the direction the team wants to go" afterwards, don't get offended when he doesn't want to play for you later on. They made it clear that they didn't want him around.

I also see what you're saying about it being a business and Marbury being obligated to play, but I won't change my position for the Knicks' rights as a business.


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## Kiyaman

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*



USSKittyHawk said:


> Props to Blue Magic, Keaf and HB, I share the same thoughts I don't have to add much else. Like I said in the Steph thread weeks ago, that they are going to call him when they need him and he was going to refuse to play. Where was the outrage from some Knicks fans on this board when his 21 million dollar behind wasn't allowed to play? Pot called the Kettle Black up in here for real, he did the right thing good for him! I can't wait until he is finally gone so he can play ball, unfortunately it never worked out for him here, but it's quite funny how some people think he is the anti-Christ now. He is still that dude, a guy who donates his millions to charities all throughout the community is a hero to me, **** what he did on the court I still like him.




Kitty, you put the right seasoning on this dish....its tasting real good.

I'm from Brooklyn, and the ole school yard saying goes "you _Played_ me once good on you, but when you _Played_ me twice bad on me". 
With the knew regime decision-making who would be cosidered the _SUCKER_ when Mobley is activated and Marbury is put back on the inactive list?

*Dantoni said everyone was given a clean slate at the start of training camp....* 
at the start of the season he humiliated Marbury wid a DNP and placed him on the inactive list.....after a 6-5 start wid Crawful & Zach being the number 1 and 2 scorers on the team he shipped both of them to the West Coast. 

*For those members which believe Marbury actions were Insubordination....for those that believe that.... are PURE Suckers...*


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## Kiyaman

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*



NewAgeBaller said:


> I'm with Blue Magic, Keaf, HB & Kitty.
> 
> If you're gona lead him on to play, then embarass him in the MSG by not giving him a single minute, then tell him he's "not the direction the team wants to go" afterwards, don't get offended when he doesn't want to play for you later on. They made it clear that they didn't want him around.
> 
> I also see what you're saying about it being a business and Marbury being obligated to play, but I won't change my position for the Knicks' rights as a business.



If Dantoni and Walsh did not make that Public comment several times to the media they would be able to hold Marbury under charges with Stern for a real cheap buyout. :azdaja::azdaja::azdaja:


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## Da Grinch

*Re: What a bunch of tools....*



alphaorange said:


> Its simple. He is an employee under contract. You do what you are told...period. I'm not mad and I don't hate anybody, but as the players are constantly saying....its a business. This disrespect crap is just that, crap. Christ, they didn't treat him like a god...they embarrassed him...wah, wah, wah. Anybody that uses that crap-*** excuse for not doing something they don't want to do is a whiner and a baby. I've got news for you, *respect is earned, not guaranteed.*


that goes for coaches and GM's as well as players you know. professional sports aren't really held to the same rules as the guy bagging groceries at your local supermarket.

the knicks management are under an obligation to play who can help them win and give the fans what they want, people pay for nba league pass to see the best players in the world play, people pay cablevision to have MSG as a channel to watch the knicks and anthony roberson i'm pretty sure isn't what are tuning in to see, heck every1 wanted him cut 4 weeks ago for PE2...their treatment of marbury doesn't ring true to putting the best game or show out there, he is clearly better than nate or mardy, and obviously roberson , an argument can be made for duhon based on best fit for the team, he was the best guard on the team in the preseason and said and did all the right things .

they chose to ignore all that and bench him, even d'antoni admitted earlier in the season he couldn't justify giving marbury spot minutes because stephon is better than that...the nba is a world stage, people can see marbury on the bench in china , I understand walsh and D'antoni are doing what they feel is best for the betterment of the team , but if you are going to publicly make some one a pariah then at least have the testicular fortitude to stay consistent and let him go about his merry way, leave him be .like the pacers are doing with tinsley.

his deal is guarenteed and if he's healthy and good enough to play he should be playing knicks management should be honoring his contract too,play him, cut him, or deal him.

but this um...we need you for a day or 2 and then we'll go back to making you sit on the bench while the other players play like some kind of kid on detention stuff is weak.

even the guy at your local supermarket bagging groceries wouldn't be made to sit down for everyone to see and be made a public spectacle while management decided what to do with him... no self respecting supermarket would do that for 10 minutes and this has been going for almost a month now with marbury.

if they didn't want him there , he wouldn't be there , its kinda sad MSG standards are so far below that lets say Stop'nShop.

and thats why if he doesn't to play , he shouldn't have to.


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## alphaorange

*You guys are screwed up....*

How did they disrespect him? You have no idea what was said behind doors. They told him he was not in their future plans and they have been trying to buy him out for weeks. IT is MARBURY who refused to to take less, thus insuring his butt in street clothes. The press was told nothing but complimentary things about him. They gave him respect in the real sense. What they DIDN'T do was allow him to become an integral part of something that was being built because they KNEW he was not going to be part of the future. They told him there was always the possibility of injury etc and he would need to play. Marbury's take was ALWAYS whatever they need me to do...he was the liar. Do you guys remember that it was the majority of his team mates that said he was a huge distraction even when playing? 

Anyone that thinks respect has anything to do with this is an ignorant fool. The definition doesn't even fit. This has nothing to do with respect and everything to do with pride. His pride was hurt...so what?...boohoo. Guess what? Try doing that in your jobs. Tell your boss no, you won't do what he wants you to. Oh, you can do it but you'll be unemployed. Marbury still collects his check.....isn't America great?!

And BTW, those who think Marbury never disrespected the organization are uninformed. His circus has been in town for a few years now with tons of acts of disrespect. Eff him and his supporters. People with his point of view are more the cause of problems than the solutions.


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## pr1ncejeffie

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

So Marbury should have given a chance under the new regime? I find it hilarious.

Remember him hugging Lenny Wilkens? How did that turn out?

Remember him embracing Larry Brown? How did that turn out?

Remember him loving Isiah Thomas because he was a PG just like him? How did that turn out?

Remember Minnesota, NJ and Phoenix? Yeah, a "second" chance is in order.

Sorry but his second chances are done. Coaches were fired because they thought Marbury is a franchise player. GMs thought he could be build around. Now these days, after 12 years in the NBA. I think teams are realizing that he isn't a franchise or top PG. He should just try to act like Billups and it will work wonders for him. Oh well. million dollar talent 5 cents head.


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## MLKG

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

Interesting thread.

Question. For the people who think Steph was justified in refusing to play. Do you have a job?


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## Da Grinch

*Re: You guys are screwed up....*



alphaorange said:


> How did they disrespect him? You have no idea what was said behind doors. They told him he was not in their future plans and they have been trying to buy him out for weeks. IT is MARBURY who refused to to take less, thus insuring his butt in street clothes. The press was told nothing but complimentary things about him. They gave him respect in the real sense. What they DIDN'T do was allow him to become an integral part of something that was being built because they KNEW he was not going to be part of the future. They told him there was always the possibility of injury etc and he would need to play. Marbury's take was ALWAYS whatever they need me to do...he was the liar. Do you guys remember that it was the majority of his team mates that said he was a huge distraction even when playing?
> 
> Anyone that thinks respect has anything to do with this is an ignorant fool. The definition doesn't even fit. This has nothing to do with respect and everything to do with pride. His pride was hurt...so what?...boohoo. Guess what? Try doing that in your jobs. Tell your boss no, you won't do what he wants you to. Oh, you can do it but you'll be unemployed. Marbury still collects his check.....isn't America great?!
> 
> And BTW, those who think Marbury never disrespected the organization are uninformed. His circus has been in town for a few years now with tons of acts of disrespect. Eff him and his supporters. People with his point of view are more the cause of problems than the solutions.


so answer this why play marbury at all in the preseason , if he never had a shot ?

you may not see it but most see it ...the whole process was done to have him jump through hoops , make him uncomfortable, to act out so they could fine/suspend him, and make him take less to leave . not so dissilimar to what thomas did to shandon anderson a few years back...it worked then , shandon left before the season and no one really cared. but thomas was wrong for that ...but at least he had a number of players who were outplaying shandon in preseason, ariza in particular.

with houston, crawford, tim thomas and ariza on board anderson could have been buried on the bench without an agenda so it was a nonstory. he knew it , and took less to go.

even a diminished marbury is a top 5 player on the roster , he clearly is good enough to play, so its not an attack on his ability , but him the man. and they leave him on the bench for all to see.

marbury is far from an angel , no one is saying he is . but if you are going to ostricize him that do it in a better more humane way.

i find it very odd that people are so quick to want 2 men in walsh and d'antoni to punish marbury for past crimes.

under their regime he has been a perfect soldier, if they dont want him , cut him , they are being petty because of the money owed marbury , if he were making the minimum , he would have been sent away months ago, marbury negotiated a contract and until the walsh and d'antoni violated the spirit of that agreement there was no problem, marbury said he would take a bench role, he said he would play any role they asked .

they said they wanted a benchwarmer .

so he warms the bench and now they have to deal with it when he continues to do it.

and lets remember something ,marbury said he never said he didn't want to play , 

http://www.nypost.com/seven/1122200...tonis_portrayal_inaccurate_140243.htm?&page=1



> According to Marbury, D'Antoni told him in the mid-afternoon he had 20-to-25 minutes for him in the wake of the Jamal CrawfordJamal Crawford trade. The conversation took place before the second trade left the team with just seven able bodies.
> 
> "He said, 'I have 20, 25 minutes for you if you want to play,'" Marbury said Saturday morning. "I said, 'You've told me you're going in another direction and I'm not in the plans.'"
> 
> At that point, D'Antoni didn't bother to press the issue, according to Marbury. "He had a smile on and just said, 'I totally understand it, I get you,'" Marbury said.


http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-sbmarbury225937678nov22,0,128965.story




> Asked if he thought Marbury's actions could be viewed as insubordination, D'Antoni said: "Nah, nah. I think he was in a tough situation. I'm not mad at all at Steph and I understand Steph and that's fine. But that's enough of the talk and the story because it is a distraction and we need to go forward. We've got a new team coming in starting tomorrow and then Tuesday and we're going to get this done. We're going to get into the playoffs and we're going to have a good team and Knicks fans are really going to be happy the next three years."
> 
> Marbury didn't have much to say regarding the situation, but his explanation for why he didn't play didn't coincide with what D'Antoni told reporters minutes earlier.
> 
> "The only thing I'm at liberty to say is that I was told that they were moving forward," Marbury said, "and I'm not the person who chooses to play and who doesn't. That's the only thing that I'm able to say."


depending on who's viewpoint you want to believe , its clear he was given an opportunity to play and decline, not really that big a deal , he was never ordered to play ...maybe the people with his point of view are simply the ones who actually paid more attention while others potificated and ranted about it.


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## alphaorange

*Grinch, I agree in priciple*

It should be the same from both sides. Marbury has been disrespectful to the organization in the past but I never saw any complaints from management about being disrespected...from them OR the fans. I also don't believe(although I have no real info)that Marbury HAD to be on the bench. He could have asked to stay home and I am SURE it would have been granted. I don't see the same uproar over Tinsley and Walker. Wonder why? 

If you have never seen an employee humiliated in front of the public, you haven't been around long. Happens all the time. Is it right? Nope, but the employees have the option of moving on. 

Bottom line for me is that it is impossible to be disrespected while sitting on a bench in a $1500 suit collecting 250k per game. Seriously....how many people in the world wouldn't accept that kind oh "disrespect"? Is there a single person here that wouldn't trade places with him right now? There is a reason pride is a sin....


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## Da Grinch

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*



MLKG said:


> Interesting thread.
> 
> Question. For the people who think Steph was justified in refusing to play. Do you have a job?


i have a job and this sit over there dunce cap stuff doesn't sit real well with me.

if you have a job i'm really wondering why you dont feel the same.


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## Da Grinch

*Re: Grinch, I agree in priciple*



alphaorange said:


> It should be the same from both sides. Marbury has been disrespectful to the organization in the past but I never saw any complaints from management about being disrespected...from them OR the fans. I also don't believe(although I have no real info)that Marbury HAD to be on the bench. He could have asked to stay home and I am SURE it would have been granted. I don't see the same uproar over Tinsley and Walker. Wonder why?
> 
> If you have never seen an employee humiliated in front of the public, you haven't been around long. Happens all the time. Is it right? Nope, but the employees have the option of moving on.
> 
> Bottom line for me is that it is impossible to be disrespected while sitting on a bench in a $1500 suit collecting 250k per game. Seriously....how many people in the world wouldn't accept that kind oh "disrespect"? Is there a single person here that wouldn't trade places with him right now? There is a reason pride is a sin....


self respect isn't a sin , and really he has enough money i think he is doing this as much out of principle as anything else.

every workplace have different cultures , some places what sexual harrassment is just how people communicate in others.

in the NBA what is being done to marbury is disrespectful, it just is , maybe sitting on a bench for 2 and a half hours and collecting 1/90th of 21.9 million dollars is a slice of heaven at your workplace, but its not in stephon marbury's.

tinsley is currently in atlanta "staying in shape" , he is not on the pacer bench.

and walker sucks , he may not be legitimately worthy of playing time even on that roster.

so its really not the same like i said in the shandon anderson situation , he actually may have not been good enough to play, so he took less and left...that really doesn't apply to marbury , he is clearly good enough to play, he is just being held of games but put on the bench to watch them , basically they are trying to make him go away , if they didn't care he would be sent home , because they nor the other players on the team need the distraction.

if he were told to go home and he came anyway , that would be insubordinate , he could be fined/suspended , so its clear that didn't happen here...they want him there.

and trust me i've seen enough , if employees are being humiliated in public , they should call a lawyer unless they deem its worth it to be humiliated, end of story.


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## Bartholomew Hunt

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*



pr1ncejeffie said:


> So Marbury should have given a chance under the new regime? I find it hilarious.
> 
> Remember him hugging Lenny Wilkens? How did that turn out?
> 
> Remember him embracing Larry Brown? How did that turn out?
> 
> Remember him loving Isiah Thomas because he was a PG just like him? How did that turn out?
> 
> Remember Minnesota, NJ and Phoenix? Yeah, a "second" chance is in order.
> 
> Sorry but his second chances are done. Coaches were fired because they thought Marbury is a franchise player. GMs thought he could be build around. Now these days, after 12 years in the NBA. I think teams are realizing that he isn't a franchise or top PG. He should just try to act like Billups and it will work wonders for him. Oh well. million dollar talent 5 cents head.


I'm glad not everybody is so removed from reality.


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## USSKittyHawk

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

The bottom line is Knicks management should have either waived him, bought him out, BEFORE the season even started, Management dropped the ball, and now trying to make it look like they are just _so_ innocent. I think this is all D'Antoni because he flat out lied and said Steph would be given him a clean slate, and Walsh believed him, because he would have took care of this over the summer, if he didn't. It's obvious Walsh and D'Antoni were not on the same page in this. I just don't understand how a professional organization gets a free pass, and does not receive any criticism as to how awful they handled this. Remember free agents are watching how they conduct business, which right now makes them look bad and not attractive.


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## Julo

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*



USSKittyHawk said:


> The bottom line is Knicks management should have either waived him, bought him out, BEFORE the season even started, Management dropped the ball, and now trying to make it look like they are just _so_ innocent. I think this is all D'Antoni because he flat out lied and said Steph would be given him a clean slate, and Walsh believed him, because he would have took care of this over the summer, if he didn't. It's obvious Walsh and D'Antoni were not on the same page in this. I just don't understand how a professional organization gets a free pass, and does not receive any criticism as to how awful they handled this. *Remember free agents are watching how they conduct business, which right now makes them look bad and not attractive.*


Not a huge Knicks fan, but from an outsider's perspective I think D'Antoni actually gained a lot of respect from players and management around the league for how he has handled all the Starbury business thus far.


----------



## nymoorestx

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

Remember this is a guy whose teammates basically would have voted him off of the team last year and Lebron said that he couldn't have a guy like that on his team. Stephon is not going to get any sympathy around the league, much less with any potential free agents. 

It's a business and he just needs to make good business decisions, like playing when he gets the chance so he can showcase his talents and maybe get a trade. Otherwise the business move for the Knicks is to let him sit. The only thing that management (D'Ant) did wrong was to play him in the preseason like he had a chance of making the rotation (he is still their best guard, but if you weren't going that way, you probably knew it before the sason started).


----------



## pr1ncejeffie

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

Many ex teammates or people around the league is crapping all over Marbury's head. Some of you guys have this fanboi with Marbury because he is from Brooklyn. Fair enough. I'm from Brooklyn and I am ashamed that he is from BKLYN. 

Sorry USSkittyhawk but D'antoni benched a whiner and McCurry because of their inability to be team players. Thats what they get. D'antoni EARN respect for that unlike Isiah Thomas. What some of you guys are saying.. Marbury should be playing because he is the best player on the team. If it was a 1 on 1 street game then fine. But he has 4 other players on the same court and he forgets about them. 

Tim Thomas, Zach Randolph (don't like him either), Lenny Wilkens, KG, Lebron James and any other players that played with him thinks he is a freaking moron.


----------



## USSKittyHawk

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*



pr1ncejeffie said:


> Many ex teammates or people around the league is crapping all over Marbury's head. Some of you guys have this fanboi with Marbury because he is from Brooklyn. Fair enough. I'm from Brooklyn and I am ashamed that he is from BKLYN.
> 
> Sorry USSkittyhawk but D'antoni benched a whiner and McCurry because of their inability to be team players. Thats what they get. D'antoni EARN respect for that unlike Isiah Thomas. What some of you guys are saying.. Marbury should be playing because he is the best player on the team. If it was a 1 on 1 street game then fine. But he has 4 other players on the same court and he forgets about them.
> 
> Tim Thomas, Zach Randolph (don't like him either), Lenny Wilkens, KG, Lebron James and any other players that played with him thinks he is a freaking moron.


Oh please it has nothing to do with him being from Brooklyn, and if you ashame that's on you, I really don't care. Again, since it's falling on death ears, this should have been taken care of over the summer, and not making it a circus as of right now. The bottom line is management dropped the ball, and now we are stuck with a player who is taking up space, which in turn would have been an opportunity for a guy like Ewing Jr. to make the team. What part of that you seem to have the inability to understand?


----------



## Blue

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*



pr1ncejeffie said:


> Many ex teammates or people around the league is crapping all over Marbury's head. Some of you guys have this fanboi with Marbury because he is from Brooklyn. Fair enough. I'm from Brooklyn and I am ashamed that he is from BKLYN.
> 
> Sorry USSkittyhawk but D'antoni benched a whiner and McCurry because of their inability to be team players. Thats what they get. D'antoni EARN respect for that unlike Isiah Thomas. What some of you guys are saying.. Marbury should be playing because he is the best player on the team. If it was a 1 on 1 street game then fine. But he has 4 other players on the same court and he forgets about them.
> 
> Tim Thomas, Zach Randolph (don't like him either), Lenny Wilkens, KG, Lebron James and any other players that played with him thinks he is a freaking moron.



Stephon Marbury - Quote's of the Year

"I drink life’s happy water which is bottled at the divine source. It goes down much smoother than 'haterade.' *How does 'haterade' really taste?*"

"When you’re happy and your smiling, haters are frowning. When you have a clear conscious and your mind is free, others are confused. When you can see where you’re going and no longer living in the dark, others are blinded by your light."

"I do have one admission. I am high, high off of life."


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

i highly doubt marbury actually refused to play. it seems like doing so would be something that would help the knicks keep money from him.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: You guys are screwed up....*



alphaorange said:


> How did they disrespect him? You have no idea what was said behind doors. They told him he was not in their future plans and they have been trying to buy him out for weeks. IT is MARBURY who refused to to take less, thus insuring his butt in street clothes.


why should marbury agree to take any less money than he is owed? he has a contract for a specific amount of money. that is the amount he is entitled to. it is his right to collect all of that from the knicks whether they want to play him or not.

to suggest that he's doing something wrong by wanting to get paid what his contract says he should get paid is ridiculous.


----------



## alphaorange

*Look man...*

I never said he SHOULD take less. I said if he is unwilling to do so, he should keep his mouth shut(which he has done) and do as asked to do(that is a matter for debate). Guy is still a jerk. Although Kitty is right that this could have been better handled, it is the Knicks prerogative to have some input as to where he goes and when. Just business.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*



Da Grinch said:


> i have a job and this sit over there dunce cap stuff doesn't sit real well with me.
> 
> if you have a job i'm really wondering why you dont feel the same.


Doesnt sit well for you eh? So you'd just tell your boss to go **** himself and go home right? Im sure they'd keep paying you your full salary like the Knicks will have to do with Marbs.

Get real. The guy is getting paid 20 mil, I have no problem with him saying hes not happy, saying he wants to play for another team, ect, but if hes asked to play, thats what hes paid for, and happy or not, he better shut the **** up and get on the court.


----------



## 3intheKey

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

on the real...they need to make up their mind...they can't just have him lingering around...does d'antoni really think he is winning this battle right now...steph is gettin paid all that money to wear a sharp suit on the bench lol...not exactly a bad deal for him


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

Yea, it is a messed up situation. Im not sure what the hell the Knicks think they're doing right now.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

Marbury is in a bad situation. He's been told to F off and then they say, "Play." The only problem is that he has F-U money and doesn't have to listen and swallow his pride. They should have treated him like an NBA player and say, "You're going to be playing 5-10 minutes a game because I want to go a different way." I don't believe that you can't develop a team while having a great player on the roster. It just doesn't make sense to me. He's too good not to play. ****, Jamal Crawford is a 40% shooter and he gets 35mpg and 20FGA/game?!? They should have put Marbury into the role of LB on the Suns. 

I'm glad marbury told them "No" when they wanted him to suit up for two games. That's just not right. You don't tell him that you want him for only two games until the new players from the trade clear paperwork and then go back to the pine. He's either on the team or he's in a suit, collecting $267,530.49 per game.


----------



## Da Grinch

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*



R-Star said:


> Doesnt sit well for you eh? So you'd just tell your boss to go **** himself and go home right? Im sure they'd keep paying you your full salary like the Knicks will have to do with Marbs.
> 
> Get real. The guy is getting paid 20 mil, I have no problem with him saying hes not happy, saying he wants to play for another team, ect, but if hes asked to play, thats what hes paid for, and happy or not, he better shut the **** up and get on the court.


why...because you say so?

thats funny , the simple truth is he said he wasn't comfortable playing since he hasn't scrimmaged in over 2 weeks , his coach understood , and then marbury suited up and only in an absolute dire need was he going to be called upon.

he's not being fined or supended , he wasn't insubordinate its sad so many seem to have so little idea about what happened yet are up in arms about it ,which why in a previous post i posted both D'antoni's and marbury quotes on the subject.

now personally if he wanted to be insubordiant and just said "I'm not gonna play for them." thats something different. it wouldn't be an issue for me though because Walsh and dantoni have an obligation to at least try to win games and they are clearly not trying to do that to the best of their ability .

they start winning , they trade their best 2 players.

there is a pretty good shot that marbury is now the best player on the roster ...yet they dont want him to play, thats not trying to win. they are trying to humiliate and embarass him in a sad attempt to make him take less money to go away, he has in my opinion every right to stick it to them just like they have been trying to do to him.

meanwhile the fans have to watch this sordid drama unfold...marbury has his share of faults , and has done a ton of dumb things , but here he came in , in shape did what he was told and was the best guard on the team in preseason only to not play when the games count .

what the knicks are doing is very small and petty and maybe you can endorse it , but there is no way I can.


----------



## USSKittyHawk

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*



> Stephon Marbury refusal to play for the injury-depleted Knicks for the second time in six days will likely mean the end to his Knicks' career sooner rather than later.
> 
> According to a team source, Marbury will either be ordered to stay home indefinitely or released. The move could come as early as this weekend, which suggests that the guard will likely be asked to leave the team until he is either traded or a buyout is reached.
> 
> "Something is going to happen," said the source. "This has got to end."
> 
> The same source indicated that Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni considered sending Marbury home Wednesday after the veteran point guard declined the opportunity to play Wednesday night against the Pistons.
> 
> Without Marbury, the Knicks are down to two healthy guards - Chris Duhon and Anthony Roberson. Nate Robinson missed Wednesday night's game due to a groin injury and newly acquired guard Cuttino Mobley has not been cleared by Knicks doctors. Mobley is not expected to be available Saturday against Golden State.
> 
> Marbury was not on the team bus when it arrived at the Palace at Auburn Hills, and the buzz in the Knicks' locker room was that he had already been sent home. However, Marbury rushed in at 6:34 p.m. and informed team officials that he had overslept.
> 
> Knicks president Donnie Walsh did not accompany the team to Michigan and was unavailable for comment. D'Antoni also failed to shed any light on the latest development.
> 
> "It's status quo," D'Antoni said. "It hasn't changed any from the last time. Again, I don't want to keep talking about it."
> 
> Marbury is the league's second-highest paid player, earning $21.9 million this season.
> 
> D'Antoni angered Marbury by benching him in the Knicks' season-opening victory over Miami. D'Antoni then decided to place Marbury on the inactive list and said that the Knicks were going in a different direction.
> 
> When the Knicks traded Jamal Crawford, Zach Randolph and Mardy Collins last Friday and were down to seven players, D'Antoni asked Marbury if he wanted to play against the Bucks. But when Marbury was also told that he no longer is part of the Knicks' future, he declined. He was in uniform that night because NBA rules require that teams dress eight players.
> 
> Marbury was back on the inactive list Wednesday night and when asked if he would play, he pointed to his locker and said he didn't have a uniform.
> 
> "They're going to do what they're going to do," he said. "That's what they've been doing."
> 
> Marbury and lawyers from the Players' Association met with Walsh two weeks ago to discuss a buyout. One front-office source indicated that if the Knicks buy out Marbury, it won't happen until after Jan. 1.


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...008-11-26_marbury_is_one_steph_from_gone.html

I don't understand why the Tinsley rules was never implemented for Marbury when this circus started to unfold. We have an organization with their heads in the sand, it's rather sad.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*



Da Grinch said:


> why...because you say so?
> 
> thats funny , the simple truth is he said he wasn't comfortable playing since he hasn't scrimmaged in over 2 weeks , his coach understood , and then marbury suited up and only in an absolute dire need was he going to be called upon.
> 
> he's not being fined or supended , he wasn't insubordinate its sad so many seem to have so little idea about what happened yet are up in arms about it ,which why in a previous post i posted both D'antoni's and marbury quotes on the subject.
> 
> now personally if he wanted to be insubordiant and just said "I'm not gonna play for them." thats something different. it wouldn't be an issue for me though because Walsh and dantoni have an obligation to at least try to win games and they are clearly not trying to do that to the best of their ability .
> 
> they start winning , they trade their best 2 players.
> 
> there is a pretty good shot that marbury is now the best player on the roster ...yet they dont want him to play, thats not trying to win. they are trying to humiliate and embarass him in a sad attempt to make him take less money to go away, he has in my opinion every right to stick it to them just like they have been trying to do to him.
> 
> meanwhile the fans have to watch this sordid drama unfold...marbury has his share of faults , and has done a ton of dumb things , but here he came in , in shape did what he was told and was the best guard on the team in preseason only to not play when the games count .
> 
> what the knicks are doing is very small and petty and maybe you can endorse it , but there is no way I can.


This is a fantastic post, and I support everything said.


----------



## alphaorange

*Maybe you ought to read more....*

Like today's NY papers. He's a bum who, to spite management, left his teammates hanging. As usual, Marbury first and the hell with everyone else. Lets just see how this helps him find a team that will trust him. And by team, I mean players, not management. We all know management are whores.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*

I dont disagree that the Knicks are acting like idiots and almost seeming to look like they're trying to make Marburys life hell. What most of you fail to come upon though is that he signed a contract. To me its a tribute to where the spoiled and lazy work force is going these days. "I signed a contract, but I dont feel like playing, they're being mean."

Grow up. Marbury is a grown man, he signed a contract, a contract that Im sure said nowhere on it his designated playing time, or a certain set of games he would be able to play, ect. Does it suck for him hes locked into a contract right now and the Knicks are ****ing him around? Yea, sure does. Just like it would suck for the Knicks if he blew out his knee and just got to sit at home for the rest of his contract. None of you seem to understand for some reason that that is what a contract is. Its a calculated risk on both sides, and you dont just get to walk away when you dont like it anymore.


----------



## USSKittyHawk

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play*



> -- Stephon Marbury has been suspended for one game by the New York Knicks, who are alleging he refused to play Wednesday night against the Detroit Pistons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marbury was suspended without pay for Saturday's game and was also fined 1/110th of his salary for his actions in Detroit, meaning his penalty amounts to almost $400,000 of his $20.84 million salary for this season.
> A source told ESPN.com on Friday that Marbury has been told to stay away from the team at least until Monday, when his status will be re-addressed. He will not practice Friday, nor will he be welcome in the home locker room at Madison Square Garden when the Knicks play the Golden State Warriors on Saturday night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"A player's central obligation is to provide his professional services when called upon,"* president of basketball operations Donnie Walsh said in the team's announcement. *"Because he refused the coach's request to play in the team's last game, we had no choice but to impose disciplinary action." *
> 
> Marbury has disputed the Knicks' allegation that he refused to play, telling The New York Post: *"I never told [coach Mike D'Antoni] I'm not going to play. Those words never came out of my mouth. That's insubordination." *
> 
> *Hal Biagas, an NBA Players' Association attorney advising Marbury, told ESPN.com Friday morning: "We feel the discipline imposed by the Knicks is baseless. We plan to file a grievance." *
> 
> 
> According to New York-area media reports, *the Knicks were expected to send Marbury home while considering solutions to the problem. Those included fining and suspending him; trying to reach a buyout agreement with him; or simply sending him home with pay until he can be traded or is released. *
> 
> In an interview with the Post published Friday, Marbury said he can't play for D'Antoni because he doesn't trust him.
> 
> 
> "We need to separate from the relationship," he said, according to the Post. "The marriage is over. It's a done deal."
> 
> 
> The Knicks are currently down to two healthy guards -- Chris Duhon and Anthony Roberson -- after Nate Robinson missed Wednesday's game with a groin injury. Cuttino Mobley, acquired in last week's trade with the Los Angeles Clippers, has not yet been cleared by team doctors.
> 
> 
> 
> Marbury, who said his suspicion of D'Antoni has reached the point that* "I wouldn't trust him to walk my dog across the street,"* said he did not create the Knicks' current situation, according to the Post.
> 
> *"[D'Antoni] created this from the beginning," Marbury said, according to the report. "Why did he create this environment? I came here ready to play, focused, taking on the role I was ready to take on. They said, 'We don't want you.' I'm not in the plans. I said, 'OK, no problem.' " *
> 
> 
> "I didn't create this," Marbury said, according to the Post. "I'm sitting inside the car. I'm not behind the wheel in the driver's seat. I have no control of the wheel of the car, if we're turning or going straight. I'm sitting in the backseat. He's not going to play me because my heart isn't in it, because the way he treated me. That's on him, not me."


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3731403


----------



## NewAgeBaller

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play/Update: Suspended One Game*

*Crawford on Marbury Situation: "Knicks Blew It"*



> Jamal Crawford returns to the Garden tonight as a member of the Golden State Warriors, and he believes that the Knicks' management blew it when it came to how to handle the Stephon Marbury situation, the New York Post is reporting.
> 
> "*Honestly, everybody there thought it would be handled before the season started, one way or the other*," Crawford told the San Francisco Chronicle. "And now it's continuing to go [on]. It needs to be resolved one way or the other, for sure. It wasn't really a distraction because we were winning, you know what I mean? We've had distractions in the past, so to us, that wasn't like a real distraction. *Steph remained professional. He never blew up at the team.*"


- Via New York Post


----------



## Blue

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play/Update: Suspended One Game*

Marbury said before the Detroit game that their wasnt even a jersey in his locker to dress out even if he had wanted.... They never told him that he HAD to play, to the point where he could refuse. He said that, had they told him he had to play he would play, but that wasn't the case. Also said that QRich doesnt know the situation, so he should keep his nose out of it.... said QRich doesnt know the half of it... Said he never refused to play.


----------



## f22egl

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play/Update: Suspended One Game*

^^ If that's the case, the league should fine D'Antoni and the Knicks.


----------



## USSKittyHawk

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play/Update: Suspended One Game*

I also heard on Sports NY 1 that good old D'Antoni told the players that Steph wasn't going to play in regular season, BEFORE he even told Steph. Good job managment, you tried to be slick and it blew up in your face, you were better off handling this before the season started, like I've been saying all along. Thanks for the article NewAge.


----------



## eddymac

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play/Update: Suspended One Game*

This pretty much backfired on D'Antoni and Walsh. They should have dealt with this during the off season. They gave him the impression that he would be playing during the season. They have since then went on to embarass him every chance they get. They are suspending him on purpose so they can take money out of his pockets. I think D'Antoni and the Knicks should be fined for what they are doing.


----------



## USSKittyHawk

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play/Update: Suspended One Game*



> D'Antoni admitted* he could have erred by banishing Marbury at the season's start, not anticipating Walsh was looking to shake up the roster by trading long-term contracts* such as the one given Jamal CrawfordJamal Crawford
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , who returns tonight with the Warriors.
> 
> "We tried to make best decision at the time," D'Antoni said. "Whether it works out or not wouldn't be the first time things didn't work out."


http://www.nypost.com/seven/1129200...ion_precursor_to_final_mar__141425.htm?page=2

Another thing I was saying all along, Walsh and D'Antoni were  NOT on the same page. You can't make this debacle up.


----------



## alphaorange

*eff'm...the guy is a jerk.*

I couldn't care less if he is embarrassed or humiliated. I also don't give a rat's butt if management mis-handled it. Their motive was to make the team better and maybe save some money. How the hell can ANYBODY feel for this jerk? He has done nothing but bring embarrassment to the franchise sine his acquisition. For a guy that has been the definition of under achievement, I have nothing but contempt for him despite managements screw ups. Do you people really think the idea was just to embarrass him? Yeah, right...its not like they have a franchise to rebuild or anything....nothing better to do than ridicule that piece of crap. 

By the way, when D'Antoni was asked about the deactivation opposed to outright release, he replied that the opportunity to play could happen at any time because of illness, injury, etc. I saw this interview so I KNOW he said it. This was also after Marbury had been told they were going in another direction...And it was also after Marbury said he would do whatever was asked of him. So what changed? Marbury got tired of waiting to get what he wanted.

I am 100% behind management, which is not to say they have not been without fault. They have done a remarkable job at positioning this team to win and win big in a couple of years. Appreciate what you have.


----------



## USSKittyHawk

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play/Update: Suspended One Game*

I can tell some folks have probably never managed a union or was a supervisor in any capacity of their human life. If they did more than likely the Human Resource department would have received numerous complaints about their managment style. It does not matter if Steph was Satan himself, in a place of business you still have to be professional and things are to be handled appropriately whether you like your employee or not. For a guy to be such a jerk, he sure gives away millions to the community all across New York City, but yeah he is the biggest scum of the face of the earth, folks are talking from two sides of their mouth because they know management should get most of the blame, but refuse to admit it.


----------



## alphaorange

*Got news for you*

Unions have to share a ton of blame for what is wrong with this country. And yes, I have been on BOTH sides of that situation. While they accomplish some good and necessary things, they also overprotect cry babies. You can argue this all you want but my background and experience in this trumps yours, no doubt. HR departments have very little power over management unless laws or company policies are broken.....please. 

I don't give a crap whether he donates to the poor or not. That doesn't mean he isn't a jerk (he is). So he's a jerk who donates. Fact of the matter is that donating has nothing to do with his time as a Knick basketball player. 

BTW, what do you mean by manage a union? You talking about being a union steward? Enlighten me, please. Also, I've been in management for 30+ years, including my own company for the last 10. Never had a complaint and never had a guy leave that wasn't relocating. I have a clue...I question whether or not you do.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Got news for you*



alphaorange said:


> Unions have to share a ton of blame for what is wrong with this country. And yes, I have been on BOTH sides of that situation. While they accomplish some good and necessary things, they also overprotect cry babies. You can argue this all you want but my background and experience in this trumps yours, no doubt. HR departments have very little power over management unless laws or company policies are broken.....please.
> 
> I don't give a crap whether he donates to the poor or not. That doesn't mean he isn't a jerk (he is). So he's a jerk who donates. Fact of the matter is that donating has nothing to do with his time as a Knick basketball player.
> 
> BTW, what do you mean by manage a union? You talking about being a union steward? Enlighten me, please. Also, I've been in management for 30+ years, including my own company for the last 10. Never had a complaint and never had a guy leave that wasn't relocating. I have a clue...I question whether or not you do.


clearly since you know Marbury first hand you have complete knowledge of the situation in New York.


----------



## USSKittyHawk

*Re: Got news for you*



alphaorange said:


> Unions have to share a ton of blame for what is wrong with this country. And yes, I have been on BOTH sides of that situation. While they accomplish some good and necessary things, they also overprotect cry babies. You can argue this all you want but my background and experience in this trumps yours, no doubt. HR departments have very little power over management unless laws or company policies are broken.....please.
> 
> I don't give a crap whether he donates to the poor or not. That doesn't mean he isn't a jerk (he is). So he's a jerk who donates. Fact of the matter is that donating has nothing to do with his time as a Knick basketball player.
> 
> BTW, what do you mean by manage a union? You talking about being a union steward? Enlighten me, please. Also, I've been in management for 30+ years, including my own company for the last 10. Never had a complaint and never had a guy leave that wasn't relocating. I have a clue...I question whether or not you do.


Based on your unconditional support of a management team that you failed to see do_ anything_ wrong, from the very beginning, I can tell if you did managed, your style was horrendous. LOL @ Unions to blame for what's wrong with this country, not the CEO's who make their millions while the little people lose their 401K's during collapses. I wonder why we in a recession? Spoken like a true genius, but I don't want to digress any further. :sarcasm:


----------



## alphaorange

*So shallow....*

To iceman..never said that I know him. Nor do I claim to know anything about this first hand...other than events I witnessed. I don't know Marbury but I've watched his tired act since he was in HS. Since you were so quick to dismiss my lack of first hand knowledge, perhaps you can back that up by telling me of YOUR first hand info?


Kitty, you really need to read better. Since you are _obviously_ educated, the fact I have steadfastly maintained there was fault on the part of management was lost on you, and this surprises me....somewhat. I know you...I talk to people like you everyday. You are a selective reader and the kind of person that reads one little tidbit and then fills in the blanks the way you want it to be. You deal in generalizations and loud opinions. While I am appalled by the salaries of the CEOs (never said otherwise), if you think their money amounts to more than a drop in the bucket, you are either naive or too lazy to look at the numbers. Finally, I never said unions were a major cause but if you don't believe unions have had a hand in the downfall of the middle class, you should spend more time reading history than the BBall boards. As much as they have helped people, they have failed them in other ways. In most instances they are no longer needed. Read. If you want to know what is wrong with our country, look no further than the education of our young. Each generation that passes is less knowledgeable than the previous. Dumber? NO, but much less disciplined and lazier than the previous...because they CAN be. Enough of the NY version of the "Education of Rita". We can continue this OT or get back to Marbury. You would be better served to stick with topics you know something about...whatever that might be.


----------



## USSKittyHawk

*Re: So shallow....*



alphaorange said:


> We can continue this OT or get back to Marbury. You would be better served to stick with topics you know something about...whatever that might be.


----------



## USSKittyHawk

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play/Update: Suspended One Game*



> According to a source, Players Association attorney Hal Biagas has contacted teams to gauge interest, with Miami high on Marbury's list. *Knicks brass may ask Marbury not to sign with Pat Riley as part of the settlement.* Marbury said he's off to Los Angeles for a week of training, to get back into game shape, after the sides agree on a settlement.
> 
> Marbury also yesterday ripped D'Antoni for "disrespecting" him, and criticized Walsh for not hearing his side of the story before levying $400,000 worth of fines relating to Marbury's alleged refusal to play last Wednesday in Detroit.
> 
> In another exclusive interview with The Post, Marbury said, "I sat there for three weeks and didn't say one word. I didn't hear one of my teammates say, 'Why isn't Stephon Marbury playing? This is a good system for him, even to play with the second unit to bring more firepower.'
> 
> "When things got bad and then worse, guys like Quentin Richardson say, 'I don't consider him a teammate. He let his teammates out to dry.' He didn't care I was his teammate when I was banished. They left me out for dead. It's like we're in a foxhole and I'm facing the other way. If I got shot in the head, at least you want to get shot by the enemy. I got shot in the head by my own guys in my foxhole. And they didn't even give me an honorable death."
> 
> Marbury is anxious to move on, even if it draws the wrath of the majority of Knicks fans.
> 
> "He suspended me without hearing both sides," Marbury said. "That wasn't fair. He took it upon himself to fine me without even speaking to me."
> 
> Walsh called Marbury on Friday morning with news of the suspension, Marbury said.
> 
> "He said he spoke to my coach and my coach has no reason to lie to me - he hasn't lied to me yet," Marbury said, quoting Walsh.
> 
> "I said, 'He's lied to you now.' "
> 
> Marbury furthered his dispute on the fine that's based on their Detroit conversation.
> 
> "Mike gave the option to play," Marbury said. "He couldn't come to me man to man and say you have to play. It was an option."
> 
> Marbury said he was skeptical of D'Antoni's offer - following the Knicks' recent trades - to be the starting shooting guard, and wondered if the offer was Walsh's doing. The Knicks still are awaiting word on Cuttino Mobley's status, with signs pointing to his heart condition being career-ending.
> 
> "Mike had no intentions of me playing basketball here," Marbury said. *"He gave me straight disrespect. It was beyond disrespect. He put in (Danilo) Gallinari, whose back is messed up and [who] didn't participate at all in training camp ahead of me [in the opener]. . . . That's saying I'm letting you have it right now. He was sticking it to me." *
> 
> D'Antoni said his decision to move on without Marbury was right at the time. Sources said Marbury's teammates wanted him off the team during the summer, and told D'Antoni such.
> 
> "I'm not foolproof in any decision you make," D'Antoni said Saturday. "I think I realized everything that could happen. Now, I probably didn't realize the perfect storm of everybody being hurt and making a trade and the guy not being here."
> 
> Marbury said he was ready to run through a wall for D'Antoni this season.
> 
> *"He knew I was in my contract year and did everything they asked me to do," Marbury said. "He's not trying to help me. He was trying to hurt me*."


http://www.nypost.com/seven/1201200...nging_coach__teammates_as__141633.htm?&page=2

Yep sounds like pure sabatage to me, (on D'Antoni's part) and we want big time free agents to come here in 2010? lol @ not wanting him to sign with Miami, why worry about where he is going, you didn't want him in the first place. In Walsh defense, and based on how he treated Ron Artest even when he used to act a fool and gave him a chance, I think Walsh was caught between a rock and a hard place, when D'Antoni decided not to play Steph without communicating about his plans with him first. Walsh couldn't be seen as not backing D'Antoni, it would just look bad as far as management is concerned. Walsh need to be careful going forward, D'Antoni's ego is huge. I don't want this guy sabotaging us, because right now we don't look sexy enough to attract a fly, more less a free agent.


----------



## alphaorange

*You mean, in your humble opinion*

The team wanted Marbury gone.....nearly unanimously.Haven't heard a player come out against D'Antoni yet. In fact, LBJ says he loved playing for him in the Olympics. The last line must have gotten by you, but it says it all about the bum Marbury.

"He knew I was in my contract year and did everything they asked me to do," Marbury said. "He's not trying to help me. He was trying to hurt me."

Since when is it the coach's job to make a player look good in a contract year? It's his job to win...and he is doing it. As usual, it's all about Marbury. Enough. I'll never change my mind about Marbury. Ever hear of Karma?


----------



## f22egl

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play/Update: Suspended One Game*

Had Marbury been practicing with the team during the regular season?


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: So shallow....*



alphaorange said:


> To iceman..never said that I know him. Nor do I claim to know anything about this first hand...other than events I witnessed. I don't know Marbury but I've watched his tired act since he was in HS. Since you were so quick to dismiss my lack of first hand knowledge, perhaps you can back that up by telling me of YOUR first hand info?


You said that Marbury is a bad teammate when the opposite is true. After Barbosa just bought his first car, Marbury called one of his friends and during practice his guy hooked Barbosa up with a $10k sound system and 20in rims. He was traded to Phoenix because they were offered a prime Jason Kidd. He was traded to NY as an opportunity to unload Hardaway's albatross of a contract and his. He's done nothing but try to play the game how the coaches wanted it played. Yes, when losing, he has a bad attitude, but what player doesn't? Name one good team he's been on. His second scoring option in NJ was Keith van Horn. You know your team sucks when he's the front line scorer. In Phoenix he had a rookie contract Marion and injured Hardaway. 

Everyone agrees New York was a mess. There were only giant contracts waiting to expire there (Houston and Hardaway most notably) so there was little to no talent, a revolving door of coaches, and everyone looking for Marbury to save the team when not even a 24 year old Jordan could save that debacle.

Now, when he show total enthusiasm for playing, willing to compete for his spot, he's told to f-off when he earned his spot. I remember being treated like that on a sports team. It doesn't feel good no matter how much you get paid. I was played as the 12th guy on my little league baseball team because the coach's son didn't like me. So I batted behind the kid with Down's Syndrome. 

They need to activate him, show him some respect, and put the ball in his court. It's too juvenile to do this. The funny thing is that you're blaming him like he's trying to force a trade or something when any game he can play in D'Antoni's uptempo offense will most likely increase his next contract offer. So it would benefit the Knicks to play him, and it would benefit Marbury to play, and it would benefit the team to have a go to guy.


----------



## kidd2rj

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play/Update: Suspended One Game*

Please don't anyone try to defend this piece of trash. he's everything that's wrong with athletes. He has a place on this team and it's at the end of the bench next to Jerome James and Eddie Curry. For those blaming D'antoni for this, remember Isiah wanted to put marbury on the bench too and that led to the whole incident where Marbury threatened the coach. yeah, real class act some of you want to play. So what if he's making 20 million a year. Kirilinko is coming off the bench. Odom is coming off the bench. There have been plent of guys in making top salaries over the years who sat on the bench. marbury has to live with it. Oh, and when he finally got his shot to come in and show what he can do...what did he do? he said F you and no i won't go in. again..real class act this guy is. try doing that at your work and see if you're rewarded with new projects and bonuses. I thought marbury said he wasn't going to be a distraction this year. apparently not. some days you'd get 0 minutes, some days 10 minutes...now with injuries he probably could have seen 20-30 minutes. but he's not happy with that. 

and i don't see what the union wants to argue. knicks actually wanted to play the guy and he said no. what can the union possibly complain about?


----------



## USSKittyHawk

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play/Update: Suspended One Game*



> "When Pacers president Larry Bird decided prior to training camp to support coach Jim O'Brien's fervent desire to exile Jamaal Tinsley, I thought it was a lousy idea. Why on earth would an opponent want to acquire a player owed $21 million over three seasons when the parent team finds him so repugnant?
> 
> *Still, at least management eliminated any chance of Tinsley or O'Brien creating an embarrassing or *****ly disturbance. Every once in awhile, the Indianapolis media has attempted to update trade/buyout possibilities; that's been it . . . no incidents or accusations, hints OR allegations of insubordination. Boundaries were agreed upon and neither party has crossed them publicly.*
> 
> *You'd think over the last four seasons, Donnie Walsh would have learned something as Bird's boss.* The Knicks' president could not be handling the Stephon Marbury mess any clumsier had Isiah Thomas mapped its coordinates - maybe I'm on to something.
> 
> First, regardless of whether or not Walsh agreed with Mike D'Antoni's "command" decision to ground the seamlessly compliant Marbury, and despite admitting it caught him by complete surprise, he overtly supported the result.
> 
> *In the process, D'Antoni took it upon himself to break his and Walsh's word that Marbury would be given the opportunity to earn minutes as long as he adhered to whatever role the coach wanted him to play.*
> 
> *Next thing you know, again, without consulting his superior, D'Antoni deactivated Marbury for the following game in Philadelphia, permanently.* Out of nowhere, we were informed Stephon didn't fit into the coach's long-term design; and recently did I discover teammates had trashed the ink-stained wretch during individual summer sit-downs with their new coach.
> 
> *Again, Walsh allowed the inequity to stand rather than covertly insist on protecting the franchise's investment by showcasing Marbury; in theory, it worked well with Zach Randolph? Someone please remind me to ask D'Antoni: Would he have benched Marbury if Stephon's salary was coming out of his bank account?*
> 
> *I understand Walsh had no other choice but to back his hand-picked $24 million hire over a $20.8M left-over predicament.* At the same time, surely he recognized the unavoidable plethora of penalties Marbury's mortification and bruised ego would provoke, yet did little to abort them.
> 
> *As soon as D'Antoni sentenced Marbury to an isolation booth, effectively devaluing one of the Knicks' precious few potential assets (expiring contract notwithstanding) lower than my 201k, Walsh should have separated Stephon from the team a la Tinsley*. From that point on, there was nothing to gain by having his sulking self loitering in its midst and only resentment to fester and fume on all sides of the controversy. "


http://www.nypost.com/seven/1130200..._brass_completely_bungled_steph_me_141536.htm
OWNED! D'Antoni=Egomaniac


----------



## USSKittyHawk

*Re: So shallow....*



IceMan23and3 said:


> You said that Marbury is a bad teammate when the opposite is true. After Barbosa just bought his first car, Marbury called one of his friends and during practice his guy hooked Barbosa up with a $10k sound system and 20in rims. He was traded to Phoenix because they were offered a prime Jason Kidd. He was traded to NY as an opportunity to unload Hardaway's albatross of a contract and his. He's done nothing but try to play the game how the coaches wanted it played. Yes, when losing, he has a bad attitude, but what player doesn't? Name one good team he's been on. His second scoring option in NJ was Keith van Horn. You know your team sucks when he's the front line scorer. In Phoenix he had a rookie contract Marion and injured Hardaway.
> 
> Everyone agrees New York was a mess. There were only giant contracts waiting to expire there (Houston and Hardaway most notably) so there was little to no talent, a revolving door of coaches, and everyone looking for Marbury to save the team when not even a 24 year old Jordan could save that debacle.
> 
> Now, when he show total enthusiasm for playing, willing to compete for his spot, he's told to f-off when he earned his spot. I remember being treated like that on a sports team. It doesn't feel good no matter how much you get paid. I was played as the 12th guy on my little league baseball team because the coach's son didn't like me. So I batted behind the kid with Down's Syndrome.
> 
> They need to activate him, show him some respect, and put the ball in his court. It's too juvenile to do this. The funny thing is that you're blaming him like he's trying to force a trade or something when any game he can play in D'Antoni's uptempo offense will most likely increase his next contract offer. So it would benefit the Knicks to play him, and it would benefit Marbury to play, and it would benefit the team to have a go to guy.


Excellent post Ice! Walsh is going to realize D'Antoni is going to give him a headache for the duration of his tenure here, because D'Antoni likes to control everything and don't seem to understand chain of command and communicating with his superiors, he is making Walsh look like a complete and utter baffoon, but wait it's all Steph's fault. :sarcasm:


----------



## alphaorange

*You are in the minority....*

The mail I have seen is running 9 to 1 against Marbury. You people against D'Antoni are not so smart. He is giving us what we want and what you cried for. I don't give a crap if Marbury turned a guy on to a set of 20's or not. Big damn deal. Hey...I got an idea. We already know what team didn't want him so why don't one of you rocket scientists show a list of players that support him or publicly want to play with him. BTW, Ice, Marbury was traded because they wanted him gone and Phoenix wanted Kidd gone. Period. Played the way the coaches wanted? Are you high? He fought with Brown...with Thomas...with D'Antoni. Where did he do what was asked. Bad, bad statement. He was a problem in Jersey...ask the fans. Name a good team he has been on? You can't because he makes every team stink. Dude, they DID activate him and offered him the starting 2 spot for the season...he declined. It also doesn't make sense to play him when he is obviously NOT going to be part of the future. Another bad move. He was insurance, nothing more. His fate was sealed when the guys wanted him gone as a teammate. Your entire post is unsubstantiated puff for one of your guys. Too bad, he isn't worth your loyalty.

Also, did you ever think that the Downs kid was a better hitter? Maybe you just weren't that good. Not everybody is but we deal.


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## kidd2rj

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play/Update: Suspended One Game*

when has marbury ever stuck up for the 12th guy on the bench? i bet never so he shouldn't be complaining about his teammates. also, what marbury and others on this board need to understand about the buyout is that each side should get something out of it. Marbury gets to leave and sign with another team and maybe rejuvenate his career. Knicks will get rid of him and save to some money in the process. if he's asking for the entire amount of his contract then what incentive do the knicks have to do that? nothing. they lose the entire amount AND he goes to another team to potential hurt the knicks. they now have no reservations with sending him home for the entire season if he's going to be stubborn about it.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play/Update: Suspended One Game*

Well then send him home already..... dont tease like your gonna give everyone a new start and have the man bust his *** and show up to camp in shape, just to NOT give him the same opportunity you promised everyone else and be the 12th man on the bench. It's rediculous. If your gonna send him home, then do that. He's already said he wont accept a buyout lower than what he's owed, so how confusing is that? Not very, but the management seems confused here. First, they straight up lie to the dude about his standing with the team by promising a clean slate and then proceed to not only NOT honor that promise, but to try and humiliate him in the most rediculous way possible..... And they are flustered when the guy isn't jumping with joy to play for them when they 'need' him? It's not about money, it's about principles. The Knick's organization is the one that is dragging this mess out in front of the public, and they're getting exposed. I know alot of people hate Steph for whatever reasons but he is clearly not in the wrong here, im sorry.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Marbury refuses chance to play/Update: Suspended One Game*



alphaorange said:


> The mail I have seen is running 9 to 1 against Marbury. You people against D'Antoni are not so smart. He is giving us what we want and what you cried for. I don't give a crap if Marbury turned a guy on to a set of 20's or not. Big damn deal. Hey...I got an idea. We already know what team didn't want him so why don't one of you rocket scientists show a list of players that support him or publicly want to play with him.


 Well then, as long as we go with public opinion of everyone who don't have anything to do with the situation, everything is right. What type of group think crap is this?



> BTW, Ice, Marbury was traded because they wanted him gone and Phoenix wanted Kidd gone.


No. Marbury was traded because they were offered Jason Kidd. Jason Kidd was traded because he beat his wife and born again Jerry Colangelo won't tolerate that. So, you don't know what you're talking about.


> Period. Played the way the coaches wanted? Are you high? He fought with Brown...with Thomas...with D'Antoni. Where did he do what was asked. Bad, bad statement. He was a problem in Jersey...ask the fans. Name a good team he has been on? You can't because he makes every team stink. Dude, they DID activate him and offered him the starting 2 spot for the season...he declined. It also doesn't make sense to play him when he is obviously NOT going to be part of the future. Another bad move. He was insurance, nothing more. His fate was sealed when the guys wanted him gone as a teammate. Your entire post is unsubstantiated puff for one of your guys. Too bad, he isn't worth your loyalty.


wow, this is a big rant of "maybes". Brown hated everyone on the team and no, they didn't fight. He hated the whole team equally. Marbury fought with Thomas at the end because they were losing and he wasn't getting near the shots he thought he should. Are you one of those people who believe Crawford is a good/great player? Also, lol at you calling my post unsubstantiated. 

As for them "activating" him, they were only going to activate him for the games where they were short handed, two. According to him, he didn't say that he wouldn't play, but that it wouldn't be a good idea seeing as he hasn't practiced with the team (coach's orders) for a few weeks. Hell, they didn't even give him a jersey to suit up if he wanted to. 



> Also, did you ever think that the Downs kid was a better hitter? Maybe you just weren't that good. Not everybody is but we deal.


 HA!


----------



## alphaorange

*Why do people express their opinion as fact?*

1. Marbury and Kidd were considered equal but different talents. Getting Kidd was not supposed to be a step up but it was. You are absolutely wrong, they wanted him gone. 
2. Group think is not involved. Marbury has NEVER been a very popular player outside of NY. If he was from Podunk, most people here would also despise him.
3. No rants here, just facts. Brown NEVER got him to do anything he wanted and IT tried to kiss his butt and it worked....until Marbury had a different idea. Remember the "I'm the best PG in the NBA" routine? Classic. A legend in his own mind. 
4. Why would they put a jersey in his locker if he had turned them down already. And why would D'Antoni make an offer for the rest of the season if he knew what a bigger mess it would make. The offer was public, hard to make that go away. Really try some facts.

Blue...I agree...get it over with. I do think there are reasons for dragging it out. Making Marbury unhappy may be part of it in order to gain leverage for limiting his destinations and buyout number. Next year he will be playing in Italy or for far less than 10m.


----------



## Da Grinch

*Why do people express their opinion as fact?*



alphaorange said:


> 1. Marbury and Kidd were considered equal but different talents. Getting Kidd was not supposed to be a step up but it was. You are absolutely wrong, they wanted him gone.
> 2. Group think is not involved. Marbury has NEVER been a very popular player outside of NY. If he was from Podunk, most people here would also despise him.
> 3. No rants here, just facts. Brown NEVER got him to do anything he wanted and IT tried to kiss his butt and it worked....until Marbury had a different idea. Remember the "I'm the best PG in the NBA" routine? Classic. A legend in his own mind.
> 4. Why would they put a jersey in his locker if he had turned them down already. And why would D'Antoni make an offer for the rest of the season if he knew what a bigger mess it would make. The offer was public, hard to make that go away. Really try some facts.
> 
> Blue...I agree...get it over with. I do think there are reasons for dragging it out. Making Marbury unhappy may be part of it in order to gain leverage for limiting his destinations and buyout number. Next year he will be playing in Italy or for far less than 10m.


1. Kidd was all-nba 1st team the season before he was traded for marbury , in fact he was all nba 1st team the 3 years before he was dealt for marbury...there is no way they were seen as equal talents, kidd was universally considered the best pg in the game...marbury's main advantage was that he was 4 years younger. marbury has never been above a 3rd team all nba selection, Kidd was dealt because he beat his wife and was a public relations nightmare for the Suns at the time. 

2. marbury's has been pretty popular over the course of his career , he has been a bonafide ticket seller which is one of the reasons he was given his seemingly now ridiculous salary, his jersey sales have been top 5 before , its nice that he is a new yorker , but the fact that he was a pretty high scoring somewhat flashy guard was probably more helpful when he was an up and coming player...in minny he was loved especially until he demanded his way out of there.

3. what is classic is how you can make a post about opinions as fact but have come up factually weak , basically spouting opinion as fact a crime you are accusing others of. Brown and marbury clearly didn't get along but i think it was rather obvious marbury sacrificed his touches , points and assists in brown's system with little complaint...not to brown's liking but he did try at least somewhat.

4. some of the facts are this , in preseason marbury was playing and D'Antoni was saying all the right things like Stephon could productive player in the system, trying him out in all 3 perimeter positions and stuff, and the the season starts and d'antoni deactivates him , not even walsh wants that because he is trying to get some value for him. D'Antoni has basically been caught already making promises to his other players about marbury , and has done more to screw up this mess than any1...and remember D'antoni already supposedly gave marbury a chance to carve out his niche for PT , in preseason and then clearly went back on it .

now dantoni again offers him a chance to play and be part of the team.

why would marbury believe him now?


----------



## alphaorange

*hmmm.....*

How bout this? http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B04E3DE163CF937A35751C1A9679C8B63


Trouble with teammates....sulking(because he was losing )...two of the premier PGs...

Equal? Maybe not EXACTLY, because they were DIFFERENT. The was not a better PG to be traded for Kidd at the time. As you said, Kidd was 4 years older and Marbury was on track to duplicate his awards. Difference between 1st and 3rd team all NBA? Not much, and might be attributed to Marbury's perceived attitude. 

1.) The Nets wanted him gone. He tore the team apart with his failure to get along with Van Horn. (not saying Van Horn was a super player). The 'Wolves wanted him gone before the Nets. This is very well documented as was his feud with management over his role in the offense. The Suns traded him to the Knicks even though they also had Marion and Stoudamire and picks. All were young including "starbury". There was no need to rebuild. They knew they were going no further with Marbury and had no room to make changes because of his salary. That is a fact from Colangelo's presser. My post was essentially as much "fact" as can be garnered when comparing subjectively, ie. Marburys ranking vs Kidd. My post was in essence saying that everybody is always glad to see him go. Not a single teammate stepped forward for him in Suns land...in NJ....or NY. Only Garnett was positive and I think that is more because he needed him.(opinion) As far as jersey sales go, I really have no idea of how that correlates to the universal popularity, but I don't believe it is as obvious as one would think. I can say that every team gets better when he leaves, which is true. Does that mean he is the only problem? No, just a part. BTW, Grinch, Marbury and Brown didn't make it a month without fighting. He is truly as close to a team cancer as you can get.

Nice job of jumping in but I stand by my posts until you can show me otherwise.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: hmmm.....*



alphaorange said:


> 1.) The Nets wanted him gone. He tore the team apart with his failure to get along with Van Horn. (not saying Van Horn was a super player). The 'Wolves wanted him gone before the Nets. This is very well documented as was his feud with management over his role in the offense. The Suns traded him to the Knicks even though they also had Marion and Stoudamire and picks. All were young including "starbury".





> There was no need to rebuild. They knew they were going no further with Marbury and had no room to make changes because of his salary. That is a fact from Colangelo's presser.


No. No. And No. The Suns weren't going anywhere with Kidd and they weren't going anywhere with Marbury as long as broke Hardaway was there. They got rid of both in order to make room to sign free agents (Nash was Marbury's replacement). Maybe some role players (Jim Jackson, Q Rich most notably) The Suns had an unproven Joe Johnson, an unproven Barbosa, an improving but far from All NBA Shawn Marion and a busted Hardaway with a $90M contract. Add to that Marbury was busted with an extreme DUI and Thomas was DROOLING over the prospect of having him, the Suns traded their combined 60% of the salary cap to the Knicks for an expiring contract. This is simple finances. I remember when he was traded. They all said that it was financial and not personal. Every player said that it was sad to see him go because they were building something. Maybe D'Antoni just didn't like him and got him traded as soon as he became head coach. I don't know. But he was far from a distraction to the Suns. 


> My post was essentially as much "fact" as can be garnered when comparing subjectively, ie. Marburys ranking vs Kidd. My post was in essence saying that everybody is always glad to see him go. Not a single teammate stepped forward for him in Suns land...in NJ....or NY. Only Garnett was positive and I think that is more because he needed him.(opinion) As far as jersey sales go, I really have no idea of how that correlates to the universal popularity, but I don't believe it is as obvious as one would think. I can say that every team gets better when he leaves, which is true. Does that mean he is the only problem? No, just a part. BTW, Grinch, Marbury and Brown didn't make it a month without fighting. He is truly as close to a team cancer as you can get.


This is not true. Minny got worse when he left. EVENTUALLY they got better. But he was traded to the worst teams in the league and the worst teams gave up great building blocks to get him. The facts are that you just have it in for Marbury plain and simple. He hasn't been on a winning team so it must be his failure to get his team there. Not the other guys not having the ability to win.


----------



## USSKittyHawk

*Re: hmmm.....*



IceMan23and3 said:


> *The facts are that you just have it in for Marbury plain and simple.*


My sentiments exactly, if someone like David Lee was excluded from playing by D'Antoni the posting style would be totally different. The fact is management handled it wrong, and for folks to keep co-signing for management is quite disturbing, I will say this again, this is not attractive to free agents, when you have management being vindictive because they don't like a player, it looks bad for business.


----------



## eddymac

Why would D'Antoni play Marbury in the pre season and lie to him saying that he will get a clean slate and there could be minutes available to him. Only to go back on his word once the season starts, is that how a billion dollar franchise handles business. What makes it worse is that D Antoni told the rest of the team that Marbury is not apart of what they are doing in the future, before he tells Marbury himself. Then he has Marbury on the active roster only to not play him, then after the game you tell him that he is not in the teams present or future plans. So Marbury sits in the cut while the Knicks win games, then two key players get traded away (Randolph and Crawford) and all of a sudden you run back to him claiming that there was 30-35 minutes available for him, he aledgedly turns down the chance to play. So you go tell the media that you gave him the option to play and he turns it down, to try and make yourself look good in the eyes of the media and the fans. Then you have Quentin Richardson declaring that Marbury is that his teammate, but wasn't saying anything when Marbury was banished by the team and was playing well without him. So all this controversy because the Knicks are short handed and he needs players out there. As bad as Marbury has been in his career, with the new regime he was willing to change and try and work with D Antoni and Walsh and throughout all this he has been ****ted on constantly. When the team was winning he kept quiet and wasn't being a distraction, but as soon as trades and injuries happen you run back to him, when all this drama is being created by D Antoni and Walsh. 

Hopefully they will come to a resolution so that Marbury and the Knicks can move on.


----------



## bball2223

*Re: So shallow....*



IceMan23and3 said:


> You said that Marbury is a bad teammate when the opposite is true. After Barbosa just bought his first car, Marbury called one of his friends and during practice his guy hooked Barbosa up with a $10k sound system and 20in rims. He was traded to Phoenix because they were offered a prime Jason Kidd. He was traded to NY as an opportunity to unload Hardaway's albatross of a contract and his. He's done nothing but try to play the game how the coaches wanted it played. Yes, when losing, he has a bad attitude, but what player doesn't? Name one good team he's been on. His second scoring option in NJ was Keith van Horn. You know your team sucks when he's the front line scorer. In Phoenix he had a rookie contract Marion and injured Hardaway.
> 
> Everyone agrees New York was a mess. There were only giant contracts waiting to expire there (Houston and Hardaway most notably) so there was little to no talent, a revolving door of coaches, and everyone looking for Marbury to save the team when not even a 24 year old Jordan could save that debacle.
> 
> Now, when he show total enthusiasm for playing, willing to compete for his spot, he's told to f-off when he earned his spot. I remember being treated like that on a sports team. It doesn't feel good no matter how much you get paid. I was played as the 12th guy on my little league baseball team because the coach's son didn't like me. So I batted behind the kid with Down's Syndrome.
> 
> They need to activate him, show him some respect, and put the ball in his court. It's too juvenile to do this. The funny thing is that you're blaming him like he's trying to force a trade or something when any game he can play in D'Antoni's uptempo offense will most likely increase his next contract offer. So it would benefit the Knicks to play him, and it would benefit Marbury to play, and it would benefit the team to have a go to guy.




:clap: Great Post.


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## alphaorange

*Look, for the last time....*

1) He said Marbury had a clean slate. That dhad oesn't mean anything other than he would judge after he had a chance to. Did you ever think it may have something to do with Marbury other than the way he played? Maybe it was a last minute decision (indications are that it was) not to play him in order to keep the rest of the team together. It is no secret that all most the entire team wanted him gone and told D'Antoni so in individual interviews. A clean slate doesn't guarantee playing time or position (status wise). It simply means that past sins under other coaches and management were forgiven. Pity, the rest of the team felt differently. That was probably the single biggest reason this happened. As far as going in a different direction..wow. If ANYONE thought Marbury was going to be part of the future after the 2010 plan was revealed, they were fools...including Marbury. Anybody with a brain knew that anyone with a large long contract was going to be history. Anyone pretending to know what the plan was or what has been said behind closed doors is just being stubborn. Management stumbled with this but has been STELLAR in every other regard.

2)To Ice....Phoenix was better with Kidd...worse with Marbury...and better after he left. Minnesota did not get worse after he left....they got better almost immediately. The Nets were bad when he got there, better after he was there a year..and far better after he left. NY? See for yourself. Rationalize all you want but that is what the numbers say. BTW...get your facts straight. Joe Johnson was a stud when they got rid of him. Marbury had a good team there...some bad luck.....and the usual Marbury result, which I fondly call the Marbury syndrome. Coming to a town near you(watch out Miami)


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## Hyperion

*Re: Look, for the last time....*



alphaorange said:


> To Ice....Phoenix was better with Kidd...worse with Marbury...and better after he left. Minnesota did not get worse after he left....they got better almost immediately. The Nets were bad when he got there, better after he was there a year..and far better after he left. NY? See for yourself. Rationalize all you want but that is what the numbers say. BTW...get your facts straight. Joe Johnson was a stud when they got rid of him. Marbury had a good team there...some bad luck.....and the usual Marbury result, which I fondly call the Marbury syndrome. Coming to a town near you(watch out Miami)


Joe Johnson wasn't a stud when the SUNS got him from Boston. Joe Johnson broke out the next year with Nash. I know my Suns history. They weren't better with Kidd. In fact, the only playoff series the Suns won with Kidd was when he was injured and couldn't play the first round and KJ came out of retirement like the stud he is and led the team out of the first round. Then Kidd came back with this stupid bleached blond look. Also, that was Hardaway's only good series since his knee injury. 

The Nets got better because they got Kittles, Jefferson, and Martin in addition to Kidd.

The Wolves got worse after Marbury left, but KG got much better.

I don't know why the Knicks decided to go in a different direction, but it probably had to do with D'Antoni liking to use 8-9 players a game and already had two PGs for the future.


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## alphaorange

*You are full of it*

Joe Johnson average went up less than one friggin point per game after Nash. Marbury was the PG when he went to 16.7ppg. Kidd last 2 years at phoenix they won 50+ games. They had 46 in Marbury's best year and 55 with Kidd. Guess you really DON'T know your Suns history. You statement that Minny's improvement was all KG is a weak *** attempt at covering your lack of factual proof. Marbury played with Martin and Kittles.You ought to quit while you're behind...You don't check anything before you post...do you?


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## Hyperion

*Re: You are full of it*



alphaorange said:


> Joe Johnson average went up less than one friggin point per game after Nash. Marbury was the PG when he went to 16.7ppg. Kidd last 2 years at phoenix they won 50+ games. They had 46 in Marbury's best year and 55 with Kidd. Guess you really DON'T know your Suns history. You statement that Minny's improvement was all KG is a weak *** attempt at covering your lack of factual proof. Marbury played with Martin and Kittles.You ought to quit while you're behind...You don't check anything before you post...do you?


Hardaway games played and Tom Gugliotta injuries derailed that. You should get familiar with the rosters too, since my argument has been predicated on the fact that he hasn't had great/good players around him when he was on the team and then the team got great/good players after he left has nothing to do with him.


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## alphaorange

*Re: You are full of it*

Maybe over a year or two I can see what you are saying, but you have tried to alibi Marbury in every city and team he has played for his entire career. You're dreaming.


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## USSKittyHawk

> "Banned Stephon Marbury said yesterday he is no longer willing to negotiate a buyout and either wants to be released or be told to rejoin the team to play.
> 
> Marbury's new tact sounded as if he was daring the Knicks to play him now that they are in desperate need of guard help. Marbury actually used the word "we" when talking about the Knicks' chances against the Cavaliers last night.
> 
> "If they give me a uniform, I'm going to go out and play," Marbury told The Post yesterday. "It's their choice. I was getting ready to go back to practice and play [after Saturday's suspension]."
> 
> It was a departure from his comments made on Thanksgiving when he said, "This needs to end. The marriage is over."
> 
> Knicks president Donnie Walsh said he expects Marbury buyout talks to resume following Monday's failed meetings. The sides are now $3 million apart after Marbury withdrew his offer to take $1 million less than his contract, which has him earning $21.9 million.
> 
> "The negotiations are over," Marbury said. "That's what they don't realize. I was wrong to try to buy my freedom. The money is off the table. I came to them with the million dollars. I didn't have to give them nothing." "


http://www.nypost.com/seven/12042008/sports/knicks/marbury__waive_me_or_play_me__now_142578.htm


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## Hyperion

Will it be smart for them to put him on the team after this? I think it would be an idea to do it. They need firepower and he can give it. I see no reason he can't do well for them.


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## alphaorange

*Very simply, no*

Ever here of something called chemistry? Do you really believe there is even a remote chance it wouldn't completely fracture whatever positive progress has been made? He is as close to a coach killer as there is. No team will ever maintain chemistry with Marbury on it.


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## Da Grinch

without zach crawford and curry playing this team is not good at all, they dont have enough talented players to compete nightly , they need more players.

chemistry is all well and good but...chemistry is only good if it helps you win, i cant say i'm too concerned if they are good at pictionary after the game, or if they can drink a few brews together on their days off.

how many of these guys will even be on the team in the summer of 2010?

if they aren't going to be on the roster their opinion imo is not really all that important.

and ...if these guys would rather lose more but not have help thats available while being stomped by 30...it doesn't say much about them.


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## Hyperion

*Re: Very simply, no*



alphaorange said:


> Ever here of something called chemistry? Do you really believe there is even a remote chance it wouldn't completely fracture whatever positive progress has been made? He is as close to a coach killer as there is. No team will ever maintain chemistry with Marbury on it.


When I played on my high school team, I hated two of the guys on the team. So much so that I would fight them if they said one wrong word to me. I still passed them the ball when they were open and we still went to the Semi's in the State Championship tournament. Liking eachother and on court chemistry are two separate items. On court chemistry is trusting that they can do their job, I think they can trust Marbury with that since that's pretty much the only positive attribute about him that you and I can agree on.


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## alphaorange

*No offense.....*

and I really mean it, but HS and the NBA have nothing in common in that regard. Chemistry is vitally important over the course of a long season. We have already seen it.


Grinch, I think you are over reacting. We were over .500 a few games ago. The injuries have set us back but the players will heal.


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## Da Grinch

*Re: No offense.....*



alphaorange said:


> and I really mean it, but HS and the NBA have nothing in common in that regard. Chemistry is vitally important over the course of a long season. We have already seen it.
> 
> 
> Grinch, I think you are over reacting. We were over .500 a few games ago. The injuries have set us back but the players will heal.


am i really overracting?

the best player in a knicks uni is chris duhon or harrington...find me a playoff team that cant claim to have better players than that...at least when the team had zach and crawford they had 2 players who at the time had an ok shot at the all star game, can the knicks say they have a player with even a remote shot of going there now?

coaching can only be expected to do so much...you do need talent and this team is short on that end,

who is coming back that really makes so much of a differnce ...jeffries?

nate?

the knicks have lost on avg. by 18 points a game since the crawford and zach were dealt ...are those 2(nate and jeffries) really worth a 20 point swing ?

the 2 teams they have beaten are 8-26 so yes they can beat the truly hapless squads in the nba ...usually , but from what i have seen over the past 2 weeks or so this just is not a good team and wont make the playoffs ...wheras i thought differntly just 2 weeks ago when i thought they had a real shot at both.

and i'm not really a negative person, but it is what it is.


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## alphaorange

*Here's why I see it differently...*

Yes, they lost to the Portland 5 but they could have easily won it. I think it was more a factor of depth than anything else. Nate and Jeffries at full strength and I believe we win that game and would be sitting at .500 again. Cavs are just a horrible match up for us. I think we will win enough games to be in it at the end. That is far from a complete butt kicking.


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## Da Grinch

*Re: Here's why I see it differently...*



alphaorange said:


> Yes, they lost to the Portland 5 but they could have easily won it. I think it was more a factor of depth than anything else. Nate and Jeffries at full strength and I believe we win that game and would be sitting at .500 again. Cavs are just a horrible match up for us. I think we will win enough games to be in it at the end. That is far from a complete butt kicking.


your interpetation of the blazer game , i dont share they lost that game by 7 because they had a go to guy in roy who they went to over and over again , and the knicks had had no such player and the blazers took over the game in the 4th...thats the value of having a guy you can run offense through who can get you points by virture of him scoring or dishing when the other team collapses on him.

the margins of the other 4 games since the crawford collins and randolph trades are 17,18 14 and 36 ...thats not competitive, and they weren't good games.

also teams are rarely at full strength the wins the knicks have since the trades were against the warriors missing monta ellis and s. jackson and the wizards missing arenas and heywood, the knicks lost in that time to the bucks by 14 when they were missing m.redd....thats life, no need for excuses...you take the good with the bad.

4 blowout losses in 2 weeks is unacceptable for a decent team...and as much as the excuse is that they are short handed , stephon could have been playing all along , he has clearly been alienated head coach mismanagement and you got a healthy jerome james publicly asking to play but the coach doesn't even see fit to activate him, how much he'd help is up for debate , but the team is losing in blowouts , they could find 5-10 minutes to save some legs for games they are actually in and it doesn't happen.


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## eddymac

*Re: No offense.....*



alphaorange said:


> and I really mean it, but HS and the NBA have nothing in common in that regard. Chemistry is vitally important over the course of a long season. We have already seen it.
> 
> 
> Grinch, I think you are over reacting. We were over .500 a few games ago. The injuries have set us back but the players will heal.


I'm sure Shaq and Kobe had great chemistry despite them despising each other.


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## alphaorange

*Shaq and Kobe underachieved*

Best coach and maybe the 2 best players in the game at the time and they did win 3 'ships but they should have done more considering the weakness of the rest of the league and spanning 8 years. It hurt them, don't kid yourself. My take on the Portland game was different than yours, Grinch. I agree they don't have a go-to guy. In fact, that is indisputable. Do you really think that is what Marbury brings. He has an absolute reputation of shying away from the big shot, especially at the end of games. Just my opinion but I see far too much risk for the reward. And as far as who will be left...we don't really know who we might get. I don't see us dumping everyone before there is some real backroom understanding of who will be coming. I think this team is going to be competitive..in fact, very competitive, by the break IF they are healthy.


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## USSKittyHawk

> Despite being banned from the KnicksNew York Knicks, *Stephon Marbury is planning to attend the team's game against the Lakers on Tuesday night at Staples Center, according to a source close to the situation.*
> 
> *Marbury told The Post last week he was headed for a two-week West Coast vacation to get out of the cold weather and begin training in the Hollywood Hills. He flew to L.A. on Sunday.*
> *It is unclear where Marbury plans to sit at the game, but last Thursday he said he was investigating purchasing courtside seats.*
> The exiled point guard was ordered to stay away from Knicks games and practices in an official capacity.
> *After a story in The Post in which Marbury was pictured working out at a White Plains health club, Knick president Donnie Walsh sent a letter to Marbury inviting him back to the training facility to work out when the team was not present. Marbury passed and chose to continue workouts in the White Plains club.*
> Marbury has been away from the team since Thanksgiving Eve in Detroit after declining coach Mike D'Antoni's offer to be the starting shooting guard the rest of the season.
> Now that the Knicks have an extra roster spot with Cuttino Mobley's retirement, Walsh is in no rush to release Marbury. The extra spot gives Walsh a little better chance of including Marbury in a deal, because he has a better chance of matching salaries by taking two players back instead of one. Yesterday was an important date on the trading front, as free agents signed over the summer and rookies selected in June's draft can now be dealt.
> Marbury also plans to visit Mexico to take in the premiere of a soccer movie he may invest in, and he also will spend time in Hawaii.


http://www.nypost.com/seven/12162008/sports/knicks/face_in_l_a__crowd_could_be_stephons_144406.htm

:lol: Amazing, can I get a paid vacation to do what I friggin please! Steph is enjoying himself. I feel bad for Walsh in a way, I'm convinced he would have handled this differently if he was informed what the coach wanted to do with him.


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## Hyperion

USSKittyHawk said:


> http://www.nypost.com/seven/12162008/sports/knicks/face_in_l_a__crowd_could_be_stephons_144406.htm
> 
> :lol: Amazing, can I get a paid vacation to do what I friggin please! Steph is enjoying himself. I feel bad for Walsh in a way, I'm convinced he would have handled this differently if he was informed what the coach wanted to do with him.


I think the job is cursed. I am positive that it doesn't matter who has that job, they're going to embarrass themselves, the organization, and do a mediocre job while wasting a crapton of money!


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## Zuca

RealGM - Marbury Wants Fine Settled Before Discussing Buyout:

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_a..._wants_fine_settled_before_discussing_buyout/


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## USSKittyHawk

As of 1/2/09



> He still has to finagle a break from the Knicks, but indications are banished point guard Stephon Marbury will wind up with the Celtics, according to a report on ESPN.com. "It will happen," a source reportedly said when asked if Marbury would wind up in Beantown this season. Marbury hasn't played for the Knicks all season. After playing well in the preseason, new coach Mike D'Antoni benched him on opening night and the relationship snowballed quickly.


http://www.nypost.com/seven/01022009/sports/knicks/steph_may_be_boston_bound_146902.htm

We could sure use his scoring right now, because no one else isn't doing ****.


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## Kiyaman

If idiot Walsh do buy-out Marbury....I would LUV for Marbury to sign with the Houston Rockets so they would have 3-NY street-ballers (Steph, Artest, and Skip) going 7 games with the Lakers to see who will go to the FINALS. 

Dantoni's ill personal feelings with Marbury has taken a downfall 
for this Knick team....Marbury talent in his final season as a Knick 
would've boosted the B-Ball awareness growth in Duhon, Nate, and Collins 
performance this season to play on a bigger level next season without him.


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## alphaorange

*You must be kidding...*

Duhon already understands the game better.....Nate may be the biggest knucklehead ever.....and Collins is just very limited physically. Being from NY doesn't make you a good baller. Playing the game with smarts, effort, and ability does. From a team point of view, I'd take Duhon every day. Marbury has talent but he doesn't win. I suppose if he goes to the Champs and they win again, it will mean he's a winner......


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## Zuca

Marbury update:
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/56666/20090118/marbury_set_to_move_on/


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## Truknicksfan

Theres no point in buying him out now. We will pay most all his salary then let him go to another team this season. Nah, let him wait till next season at this point.


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## USSKittyHawk

I bet during the next board of governors meeting, they are going to address the Tinsley and Steph rules with the owners. I know the league isn't too pleased on how this is being handled, and even the Darius Miles situation will probably be the topic of dicussion as well.


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## Hyperion

Teams should be able to fire a player. If he doesn't play for them, then he shouldn't count against their cap for the season. If he plays, then he's a member of the team if the team says, "stay home" then they owe him the contract but can avoid having it against the cap. I think that's fair.


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## 3intheKey

so wats the latest news with him...is he going anywhere...i heard that the knicks were taking their sweet time to make this decision


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## USSKittyHawk

As of 1/22/09


> Stephon Marbury told The Post yesterday he's all ears as far as playing for the Greek team Olympiacos, whose owners have interest in bringing the point guard to Greece. According to reports in Greece, Olympiacos owners have said they are interested in offering about $15 million - a development that has Knicks officials excited.


http://www.nypost.com/seven/01222009/sports/knicks/steph_mulls_greece_move_151367.htm


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## bballjones23

hah he would do something like to go olympiacos...typical


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## USSKittyHawk

*As of 1/23/08:*
*



Knicks president Donnie Walsh insists the team is still willing to negotiate a buyout, but Marbury reiterated that he would give back only $1 million and not the $3 million the Knicks are seeking. 

Walsh remains optimistic that he'll be able trade Marbury. If the Knicks can't find a team to take Marbury off their hands over the next month, they can keep him inactive for the remainder of the season or they can release him. In the last scenario, his release after March1 would make him ineligible for the playoffs. 

Click to expand...

**http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...ympiakos_eyes_european_veteran_not_ste-2.html*

*Walsh=vindictive piece of ****. *


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## alphaorange

*I hope they release him day after...*

the deadline. Payback is a bi#%ch. Before this year, the guy was a complete embarrassment to the organization. I don't see you cryin about Tinsley......

Why not admit its more about your dislike for Walsh and Dantoni than it is your principles? Just so you understand, I am not saying Marbury was the only embarrassment. We have had plenty. But when you wegh the good that Walsh and Dantoni have done against what could have been handled better, its no comparison. They got the draft right.


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## Kiyaman

*Marbury on a contender team.....*



alphaorange said:


> the deadline. Payback is a bi#%ch. Before this year, the guy was a complete embarrassment to the organization. I don't see you cryin about Tinsley......
> 
> Why not admit its more about your dislike for Walsh and Dantoni than it is your principles? Just so you understand, I am not saying Marbury was the only embarrassment. We have had plenty. But when you wegh the good that Walsh and Dantoni have done against what could have been handled better, its no comparison. They got the draft right.


*Letting Marbury go....to a contender team....which has a pass-first PG too....the rest of the Contender-teams in the NBA would all sue the Knicks organization at the same time.* 

*When it comes to Marbury.....it should be all bussiness....why? $21M reasons why.* 
Marbury is an important asset to the Knicks organization in his final contract season. 
Marbury has done more good for teams than the gossip rumored about him. 
Every team Marbury been on has learned what to look for in their replacement PG. It was always known that Marbury & Iverson are small scoring SG....not pure PG....inwhich teams offered them Max contracts to be. You cant refuse that kind of money....I'm 6.3 if you pay me that type of money I will be a center to defend Shaq every game. 

*Everyone and their Mama knew that Marbury was going to have an "ALL-STAR" season in his final contract season. And the only way for Marbury to have that kind of season is with above .500 Wins.* 

*The question is why the Knicks coach & management did not want to take advantage of the oportunity of having an ALL-Star Player in Marbury and a decent winning season while the young players on the roster improve their skillz & talents throughout Marbury last season....like every team he left teammates improved on their skillz they learned from watching Marbury???* 

The best way to explain the importance of $21M Marbury.....is to have a push the ball running *bench-lineup of Marbury, Nate, Chandler, and Gallo....*taking advantage of oponents bench-players and Starters.


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## USSKittyHawk

*Re: Marbury on a contender team.....*

God bless you Kiya, but you wasting your time on this particular subject, but good post. lol Also try posting some of your ideas and such outside of this forum as well, especially in NBA General, I have a feeling it will get a lot of hits, and intelligent discussion.


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## Truknicksfan

If Marbury is bought out now after the trade deadline can he still be picked up by another team?


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## USSKittyHawk

^ Not sure I forgot the exact date it may be March something, but I think they going to wait so he can't go with playoff team, classy organization we root for.


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## alphaorange

*March 1st is the deadline..........nm*

nm


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## Avalanche

march 1st


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## Zuca

UPDATE:
ESPN: Marbury and Knicks close to a buyout today and he may be headed to Celtics:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3931801


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## thaKEAF

Him and Moore should give the C's the spark they need going into the playoffs.


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## Blue

Not fair.


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## Da Grinch

its really about time ...glad this chapter in knicks history is done.


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## alphaorange

*Amen....*

Was just like a dark cloud hanging over the team....


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