# Game Thread: Cavs vs. Bulls, Nov 9



## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

@









*Chicago Bulls at Cleveland Cavalears *
7:00 Central on TNT and NBA TV listen live on WCKG 105.9 FM 

*Bulls Starters*




































Brown - Deng - Wallace - Gordon - Hinrich

*Bulls Bench*











































Khryapa - Nocioni - Allen - Sefolosha - Duhon - Thomas


*Cavs Starters *





































Ilgauskas - Gooden - James - Hughes - Snow

*Cavs Bench *






























Marshall - Jones - Varejao - Wesley



Cavs/Bulls Matchup information 

And I want to see more of this from PJ:









​


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

We can expect Lebron to be on coming off two losses against the Hawks and Charlotte I think it was. We need to somehow control the boards against Z, Gooden, AV and Marshall who are all big players who, apart from Marshall who likes to sit at the 3pt line lately, are going to give our small frontcourt trouble on the offensive boards. The one advantage we will definately have is at PG against one of the worst duos going around in Snow and Jones, with Wesley sometimes coming in and stinking it up.

Will we see any of Tyrus in this game? 

I'll say:
Bulls 92
Cavs 90


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

I hope we win this one - I'm surrounded by Cavs fans here at Miami U, it's terrible...


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

King Joseus said:


> I hope we win this one - I'm surrounded by Cavs fans here at Miami U, it's terrible...


Miami of Ohio? 

Isn't that in the Dayton area? Shouldn't there be Bulls fans around simply because that's our GM's home territory? 

If it's Miami U in Floriday, why the heck aren't the Heat fans? :biggrin:


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

If we keep the TOs down, we will win. We cannot let Pesky Hughes take over. Lebron will get his 35/8/8 against us just like he did every game last year.


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## LegoHat (Jan 14, 2004)

narek said:


> And I want to see more of this from PJ:


"_You got like three feet of air that time._"


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## WestHighHawk (Jun 28, 2003)

King Joseus, judging by your signature, you better be wearing a Hinrich jersey today :biggrin:

Should be one heck of a game.


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## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls! (Jun 10, 2003)

A benchmark game for us. We were oh and four against 'em last year. 
Maybe not so important now, but down the road, our possible LeBron Stopper....


Tyrus Thomas!!!!!He's got the speed, athleticism and desire to guard him, hopefully. Or at least do a better job than anyone else can, a la Dumars against MJ back in the day..hopefully, he won't be our "Ehlo" for the 21st century...
It's weird: we're kinda like the Cavs of old (well-rounded, skilled and deep) while the Cavs are trying to acquire a Horace or Scottie and become the Bulls of old..let's hope that's not the case..


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## kirkisgod (Jul 25, 2005)

The Cavs will come out fast and take an 18 point lead--we will struggle to fight back and cut it to 6 with 2:30 to play in the fourth quarter. 

Cavs 97
Bulls 88


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

I think we should set up an up-tempo pace for the game and use our depth to beat them. Looks to me that aside from James and maybe Gooden, we're better at every position, and MUCH deeper. We should win this one, and it's actually televised so I get to watch it again! 5 hours 45 minutes to go!! HERE WE GO BULLS!!!!!!!!


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

WestHighHawk said:


> King Joseus, judging by your signature, you better be wearing a Hinrich jersey today :biggrin:
> 
> Should be one heck of a game.


 I'm sportin' the Gordon for the evening's game, looking to get back to .500 with that one...


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## kirkisgod (Jul 25, 2005)

Joseus, 

Why won't you just wear Hinrich and keep up the streak?


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## jordanwasprettygood (Feb 18, 2006)

kirkisgod said:


> Joseus,
> 
> Why won't you just wear Hinrich and keep up the streak?


Hah I love all you superstitious people who think wearing a specific jersey affects the outcome of the game. Wear whatever jersey you want Joseus...
...
...
...
NOT! WEAR YOUR HINRICH JERSEY!!! DO YOU _WANT_ THE BULLS TO LOSE?
Never mess with a bad thing, especially when it comes to sports related superstitions. Use until you lose.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

We'll win


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

kirkisgod said:


> Joseus,
> 
> Why won't you just wear Hinrich and keep up the streak?


 Ha, I like the response my signature is getting. Don't worry folks, the Gordon jersey will pull through - I've got faith; besides, I don't want to drain the Hinrich-y goodness too soon, I'd like to let it last a good while...


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

There are no "must win" games this early in the season, especially given the upside down nature of the league right now. If there were, however, this game and that against the Pacer on Saturday are as close as they come. For a relatively early season game, these two games will be huge in breaking ties and deciding play-off positioning in what is sure to be another close finish in the Central Division.

It also gives us a chance to identify our LeBron stopper. Someone of Noc, Deng, Khryapa, Sefolosha, and Tyrus needs to step in and give LeBron something that will slow him down. Maybe even rotating all of those guys onto him, bumping him, constantly harassing him with long arms and infatigueable depth..... I'm looking forward ot seeing how we play this one.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Wynn said:


> There are no "must win" games this early in the season, especially given the upside down nature of the league right now. If there were, however, this game and that against the Pacer on Saturday are as close as they come. For a relatively early season game, these two games will be huge in breaking ties and deciding play-off positioning in what is sure to be another close finish in the Central Division.
> 
> It also gives us a chance to identify our LeBron stopper. Someone of Noc, Deng, Khryapa, Sefolosha, and Tyrus needs to step in and give LeBron something that will slow him down. Maybe even rotating all of those guys onto him, bumping him, constantly harassing him with long arms and infatigueable depth..... I'm looking forward ot seeing how we play this one.


I agree. I think we can go 1-1 this week, and we should definitely win if JO is out for Indiana. But, if we can go 2-0 (which won't be easy), it'll be a huge lift before we head out West and start with the Texas 3-step.

I don't like playing the Cavs. I don't think we match up well. I know we may be better at certain positions, or you can say its a toss-up. But LBJ being LBJ destroys us. Now add a Hughes who has been playing well, it could get ugly. My keys to this game are very simple: TOs and Fouls, in particular for our guards. If we can keep those down, we will be in it the entire way.


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## BullSoxChicagosFinest (Oct 22, 2005)

Everyone has the Cavs finishing ahead of the Bulls as a sure thing, time for another statement game! BG dunk anyone?










MyBulls: http://archives.subscribermail.com/msg/5a5527e163e64398a6389e100c75da22.htm


> Probable Bulls Starters
> 
> Guard 12 Kirk Hinrich 6-3 | 190
> Guard 7 Ben Gordon 6-3 | 200
> ...


Same injuries as last time listed, none for Cle


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## BullSoxChicagosFinest (Oct 22, 2005)

I think if we can stop Ilgauskus for once we'll be okay, I'd like to see our own inside game established as well though


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

Has TT been ruled out for this contest?


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## OziBull (Nov 7, 2004)

Should be a good game, Key Matchup will be Deng Verse Lebron, and if wallace can limit iggys effectiveness.

Does anyone have a live free radio feed for me?


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Hey guys, Cavs fan here.

First of all, good luck with the game tonight. I hope to see a good, injury-free game.

Now, I'm not sure what to expect tonight. The Cavs have been Jekyll and Hyde this year so far. We seem to play to the level of our competition, so whether you're better than us or worse than us, I have a feeling it'll be a close game. We came out ok against Washington, determined against the Spurs, and flat against Atlanta and Charlotte. The result: a disappointing 2-2 record. We'll see how we respond tonight.

One thing is for certain, you're going to shoot a higher percentage of FTs than we will. We suck really bad this year at those (somehow). 

I don't know whether Tyrus will guard Lebron or not, but it should be fun to see. What I've seen of him this year so far, I've been very impressed. He looks like he could be really special. You guys are lucky to have him. But other than that, Lebron matches up pretty well with you guys because of his size. If he's on tonight, I expect him to do damage. 

I won't make any predictions on your board, since I'd pick the Cavs anyway (obviously), but I know Gordon will probably kill us (as usual). We haven't really had Larry to guard him until now, though, so hopefully we'll be able to limit him a little more. 

Good luck tonight guys.

BTW, can we have one of your guards? Please???


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## CanadianBull (May 6, 2006)

Brandname said:


> BTW, can we have one of your guards? Please???


Can we have LeBron? :wink: 

First Bulls game for me this season. Can't wait to see the new guys. Should be a very tight game one would think.


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## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

CanadianBull said:


> Can we have LeBron? :wink:
> 
> First Bulls game for me this season. Can't wait to see the new guys. Should be a very tight game one would think.


hahaha

Yep, this is a game we've had circled from the beginning of the season. I figured this would be a great game to look forward to.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

Brandname said:


> BTW, can we have one of your guards? Please???


Duhon for Varejo?


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Wynn said:


> There are no "must win" games this early in the season, especially given the upside down nature of the league right now. If there were, however, this game and that against the Pacer on Saturday are as close as they come. For a relatively early season game, these two games will be huge in breaking ties and deciding play-off positioning in what is sure to be another close finish in the Central Division.
> 
> It also gives us a chance to identify our LeBron stopper. Someone of Noc, Deng, Khryapa, Sefolosha, and Tyrus needs to step in and give LeBron something that will slow him down. Maybe even rotating all of those guys onto him, bumping him, constantly harassing him with long arms and infatigueable depth..... I'm looking forward ot seeing how we play this one.


I completely agree! 

I am too. This game and the game on Saturday


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

LOL, I love Steve Kerr! "A contract year"


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Sir Charles," My Hawks will make the playoffs."


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Charles finally said we are an elete team in the east.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

CanadianBull said:


> Can we have LeBron? :wink:



Are you sure you want him? Apparently he's a no good floor walker-offer.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

LeBron averaged 35/8/7 against us last season??


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> Are you sure you want him? Apparently he's a no good floor walker-offer.


Boy, TNT is really playing that up.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Drew Gooden is a good PF.

I wish he was wearing red.

Wow. 2 points in the paint from PJ. Nice.

Nice J from Gooden. Noone close to guarding him.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Brown is playing much better as of late.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

kk4e, I wanted him on the bulls as well.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

Brown's on his way to 30 or so.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

I just purchased the NBA audio pass based on this promise: "That's every game, every night, both home and away feeds." Apparantly that is false. I cannot get the Chicago broadcast.

Is this normal with the audio pass?


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Brown dominating!


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

ViciousFlogging said:


> Brown's on his way to 30 or so.



I wish PJ Brown was 30.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> I wish PJ Brown was 30.


He's even better than 30!


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

see requisite facetious PJ thread


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Gooden is killing us.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Not a good sign, Gordon is 0-5


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Kerr makes a good point. I thought Gordon wanted to attack the rim this year. If he did, he wouldn't settle for J's/Floaters on a mini-fast break. AI would have to the stripe.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Nice drive by Kirk


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

Kirk with a great floater. He's getting a little better at finding ways to get in onto the rim when he gets inside.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

I was afraid of that. Charge by Andres


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Am I the only one who thinks Gordon will get traded unless he can become a CONSISTANT 22 ppg scorer? Which won't happen unless he starts averaging 7-8 FTs a game.


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

Commercial break. Only real gripe so far is that Ben didn't look very aggressive on offense. Pulled up for some low percentage jumpers when he looked like he could've gotten in the lane.

Ben Wallace looks a little disinterested as well.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

We are being out rebounded 14-6. Ilgauskas has 6 all by himself.


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

rosenthall said:


> Commercial break. Only real gripe so far is that Ben didn't look very aggressive on offense. Pulled up for some low percentage jumpers when he looked like he could've gotten in the lane.
> 
> Ben Wallace looks a little disinterested as well.


Also, it looks like Skiles may have agreed with me, since he took him out.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

theanimal23 said:


> Am I the only one who thinks Gordon will get traded unless he can become a CONSISTANT 22 ppg scorer? Which won't happen unless he starts averaging 7-8 FTs a game.


there isn't any chance he gets traded unless they get a bonafide 20 point scorer in return. his the only pure scorer on the team, paxson isn't stupid enough to trade that unless he gets a star in return that could be counted on to consitently score.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

I know that Paxson won't trade him for peanuts. But, I do think if there is a player to go, it would be Gordon b/c of his inconsistancies. Until we find a better scorer, he will remain on our team. When he's on, he's great. When he isn't, he's horrible. You can say that about any player, but his inconsistancies better end soon. Our team heavily depends on Ben's scoring.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Nocioni takes another charge


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Nice TT. Like to see someone attack the rim and draw the foul.

MAKE BOTH FTs!!!! :curse:


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Lebron is so strong! Nice shot to take the foul.


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

Lebron, drives on Nocioni and pumpfakes, Nocioni bites, falls on Lebron, and Lebron hits the shot anyway.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

Bulls look a little flat-footed on defense. Luol can't keep Lebron in front of him as well as he has in the past and we're not closing out on shooters nearly fast enough.

Offense is out of synch. Could be a long night if we don't find a flow.


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

All in all, not a very good quarter. Our rotations haven't been great, although I can't figure out if it's because we're being overaggressive or are just slow.

And on offense, we need to get something going to the basket. We're not taking a lot of high percentage shots.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

We just don't match up well vs CLE. At least in the few games I have seen since last year. We had one memorable win where Tyson was key 2 years ago. Thats the last close game I remember.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

30-18. A bad first quarter. 

40% to their 50%. Cavs have double the rebounds. They have made two more threes.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

We're over-doubling LeBron. He's already got 4 assists by dishing off to wide open teammates. 

And our offense :sigh:


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## CanadianBull (May 6, 2006)

Rough 1st Q. Offense is flat and very one-dimensional.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

we need Gordon and deng to score. So far combined they are 1-9


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

truebluefan said:


> we need Gordon and deng to score. So far combined they are 1-9


we just need SOMEONE to score. we can't let the cavs build a huge lead.. i hate watching the bulls play catch up basketball and be spent by the end of the quarter and having to lose by 2 after coming back from a huge margin.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Deng for two. Finally.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

Malik!


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

we have to score out of this timeout and make a little run.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

We need to make some stops


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

whats up with Deng free throw shooting?

first it was gordon having a dip last year. now deng who was one of our best free throw shooters has taken a dip in his percentage..


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## Pejavlade (Jul 10, 2004)

ghastly call on Brown. I hate the new NBA.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

how wasn't that a foul on pj?!


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

Bulls are lousy.


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## OziBull (Nov 7, 2004)

Please give Thomas more of a run!
HE WILL HELP US! He attacks the rim! WE need someone who is not afraid!


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

We suck.

Can we please make a shot? Or attack the rim if the shots aren't falling from the perimeter?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Does Ben Gordon usually sit out the entire second quarter?


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

SMH

Team is too damn inconsistent


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## darlets (Jul 31, 2002)

truebluefan said:


> we need Gordon and deng to score.


Yup, I'm willing to back if you add their scoring averages together at the end of the season and add 10 you'll get our win total. so if Deng is 18 PPG and Gordon 22PPG we'll win 50

Or scoring growth will come from those two or not at all.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

How bad can Ernie Johnson actually look? It creeps me out that they never have a solo/closeup shot of him. Just odd.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

WTF is Skiles doing? I know Ben _Inconsistent_ Gordon got off to a terrible start but benching him like this is helping NOBODY. 11 freaking minutes in the 1st half w/o no foul trouble is inexcusable. Let the man play. This team sucks too much offensively for its best scorer to play only 11 minutes.

Our D has been pretty nonexistant too. Just a horrible game so far. We look no different than last season.


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## Half-Life (Jan 1, 2003)

Even Ron Mercer can give you 20 points every game....Deng and Gordon needs to come out firing in the second half. Why is Gordon always like this??????????? It's as if he's no different than Jamal Crawford


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

He's 0-6 and doing nothing else on the floor

I'd have to bench him also...atleast until the 3rd

I'll bet he'll have a 20 point half


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

from what im seeing at the first half.. our offense is obviously stagnent because our two best scorers deng and gordon are off. 

thabo is playing pretty good defense on lebron. sure, lebron had some drives and a jump shot over him, but his not letting lebron dictate everything. i would have liked if skiles brought gordon back to main the point, and get him going with hinrich at the 2, and thabo at the 3, noc or deng and big ben in the middle. we need some offense more than anything..

at times i just hate how skiles just pulls people, he has to realise sometimes it takes a while for people to warm up, and he should know damn well that gordon takes time certain games to get going. you just cut put him on the bench for a whole quarter when his our main scoring threat. if his not getting it going at the two position whack him at the point so he has the ball in his hands, and let hinrich roam around for open shots.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)




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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Ben Gordon is really ticking me off.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

SPMJ said:


> WTF is Skiles doing? I know Ben _Inconsistent_ Gordon got off to a terrible start but benching him like this is helping NOBODY. 11 freaking minutes in the 1st half w/o no foul trouble is inexcusable. Let the man play. This team sucks too much offensively for its best scorer to play only 11 minutes.


It's not like we guard small quick guards very well either. Plus we are slow to close out the 3. Ben Gordon was born to have big nights against teams like the Cavs.


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## CanadianBull (May 6, 2006)

Whoever said we don't match-up Cleveland was right on the mark. They just have too much height and obviously having Lebron helps. No wonder we went 0-4 against them last season, even if the team is somewhat different.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

Here's an idea, guard Gooden.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> It's not like we guard small quick guards very well either. Plus we are slow to close out the 3. Ben Gordon was born to have big nights against teams like the Cavs.


I understand what you're saying, but he's 1-10 so far.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> I understand what you're saying, but he's 1-10 so far.


And the last time he attempted a shot, he got blocked and the ball bounced off his head out of bounds.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Gordon :sigh:

Hard to imagine any other player putting up 37/9 one night and be a complete non factor the next game.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Kirk the only player who came to play tonight.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Kirk should not be your primary scorer. WTF.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

sefaloshia, wow


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

DEFENSE wins championships


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

Hopefully we can at least keep it in single digits heading into the fourth quarter, and maybe Gordon will give us a miracle. :whoknows:


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

SPMJ said:


> Gordon :sigh:
> 
> Hard to imagine any other player putting up 37/9 one night and be a complete non factor the next game.


If there's a top 10 most inconsistent/frustrating players, he's definintely atop that list.

next Eddy Curry


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

im getting really sick of seeing Goodens ugly mug everytime he scores, and its happening alot!!

Thabo is going to be on the all rookie 1st or 2nd team, his just going to get more time on the court as the season progresses. his great for a rookie..


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

This Bulls team must be reading its the press clippings about its defense. They are terrible.


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## anorexorcist (Aug 3, 2005)

we should just trade gordon now while his value is high and get it over with.

3rd quarter, we actually shot the ball well, but they shot it just as well. the lead changed by one from halftime - we outscored them by one frikkin point. and we dont have an answer for gooden.

i expected them to lose this game, so i hope they can prove me wrong by i really doubt it.


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

What a terrible team we are.

Amazing how we look great against Miami, looked solid against Milwaukee, and look like crap against Cleveland. We just do not match up with Cleveland well.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Gordon does not fit into Skiles' system. When he plays like a PG, at the top of the key, he scores.

When he's playing on a wing, he doesn't.

Think about all his touches tonight. The play calls for him to get it on the wing and then dribble across the top of the key, which is simply not facing nor going toward the basket.

It's no coincidence that his 37 point game came when he was put at the PG position with Hinrich on the bench with foul trouble.

There's no doubt the kid's a scorer. There's nobody else on the team you even expect a 37 point game from, potentially any night.

Watching Cleveland tonight, I see a team that's stronger than us top to bottom, more talented at every position, and as deep if not deeper than we are.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> Watching Cleveland tonight, I see a team that's stronger than us top to bottom, more talented at every position, and as deep if not deeper than we are.


Are you joking? The Bulls are much more talent and deaper than Cleveland in the backcourt and are far deaper than Cleveland at SF.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

TripleDouble said:


> Are you joking? The Bulls are much more talent and deaper than Cleveland in the backcourt and are far deaper than Cleveland at SF.


it shows.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

**CK!!

Im so disturbed.. we are playing crap!!


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## Frankensteiner (Dec 29, 2004)

Honestly, I know the Bulls didn't play well, but it seems Cleveland made every shot, whether guarded or not. Really not much you can do when everything's going in like that.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Think about all his touches tonight. The play calls for him to get it on the wing and then dribble across the top of the key, which is simply not facing nor going toward the basket.


Ben's missed a lot of wide open jumpers tonight.

I'm just not a fan of consistent inconsistency.


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> Gordon does not fit into Skiles' system. When he plays like a PG, at the top of the key, he scores.
> 
> When he's playing on a wing, he doesn't.
> 
> ...


And you pretty much hit the nail on the head.


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

bulls suck. trade ben gordon. for garnett now!!!!!!!!!


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> it shows.


Yes it does, if you look at a larger sample size than one game.

BTW, it's their bigs that are killing the Bulls, not their guards.


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

I hate this! I hate this! We show up one game, gone the next. Yes, Cleveland is good but not that much better than us. All the shots that weren't falling against Atlanta, is falling against US!!!!


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

after this timeout if we don't bring some urgency and heart we're out of it, but if we bring some energy in the next 5 mins we could set up for a late rally if Gordon decides that we are playing a game. 

Yes, im being overally optomistic but its never too late, and i've seen the bulls come back. i just don't see the scrappy bulls team defense i'ves seen for the bulls the past two years..


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Skilesis now playing 3 guards.


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

Cleveland was the only real team that I was worried about in the East. They're just too damn tall for our midget team. Cleveland just happened to do the things that they weren't doing lately and that's Marshall and Jones hitting their shots as well as the whole team hitting their free throws. And we couldn't have played worse, so I'm using that to make me feel better.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

Ben Wallace needs to return his paycheck today.


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

they need to play VK more.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

TripleDouble said:


> Yes it does, if you look at a larger sample size than one game.
> 
> BTW, it's their bigs that are killing the Bulls, not their guards.


You realize Hinrich is now guarding Yell, right?


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

TripleDouble said:


> Ben Wallace needs to return his paycheck today.


So does Gordon. And so many others.

Kirk can keep his.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Free tacos for the cleveland crowd, with about 6 minutes to play?


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Early story of the season : Gordon & the Bulls (as a whole) are incredibly inconsistent. I don't believe Paxson will let this go on all season without making some sort of trade to change this situation. We're damn near disabled when it comes to scoring.


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> You realize Hinrich is now guarding Yell, right?



Skiles' brilliance never ceases to amaze me.


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

Are they going to miss any shots tonight, at all?


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

The ROY said:


> Early story of the season : Gordon & the Bulls (as a whole) are incredibly inconsistent. I don't believe Paxson will let this go on all season without making some sort of trade to change this situation. We're damn near disabled when it comes to scoring.


Stock 'em deep, sell 'em cheap.


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## Vintage (Nov 8, 2002)

BullsAttitude said:


> Are they going to miss any shots tonight, at all?


Its a ***** when they hit their wide open J's....


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

The ROY said:


> Early story of the season : Gordon & the Bulls (as a whole) are incredibly inconsistent. I don't believe Paxson will let this go on all season without making some sort of trade to change this situation. We're damn near disabled when it comes to scoring.


he wont' make a trade this early in the season. his said over and over again that the team has alot of new players and its going to take a while for everyone to get comfortable with each other. no matter how fustrating it is to watch, its just obvious that the players arn't accustomed to each other yet. its not our offense im fustrated about, its a defense thats we've been hanging out hats on is non existent.. there is not urgency, everyone seems to be going half hearted on the defensive end and thats the most disturbing aspect of it all. 

but i don't see paxson pulling the trigger on any trades untill atleast the allstar break, his going to let this group form some continuity first, and we obviously don't have it at the moment. 

regardless im still pissed!!! this game was painful to watch... even more so than the orlando game!


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

kulaz3000 said:


> he wont' make a trade this early in the season. his said over and over again that the team has alot of new players and its going to take a while for everyone to get comfortable with each other. no matter how fustrating it is to watch, its just obvious that the players arn't accustomed to each other yet. its not our offense im fustrated about, its a defense thats we've been hanging out hats on is non existent.. there is not urgency, everyone seems to be going half hearted on the defensive end and thats the most disturbing aspect of it all.
> 
> but i don't see paxson pulling the trigger on any trades untill atleast the allstar break, his going to let this group form some continuity first, and we obviously don't have it at the moment.
> 
> regardless im still pissed!!! this game was painful to watch... even more so than the orlando game!


Obviously he won't make a trade this early, but if the inconsistency continues til the deadline, one or more of these "core" members are going bye bye


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

i've watched enough. this is just disgraceful....

no emotions from the bulls whatsoever.. 

take a hard foul!! get the cavs stirred up or something.. 

i can't watch anymore, it breaks my heart!


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

both bens have played CRAP CRAP CRAP!!

only bright spot is hinrich..

and thabo.. he got some really big mintues tonight, and well deserved to.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

just when i stop watching the game to look at live stats, i see that TT just has two dunks!!

geez!


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

Watching these final minutes, I can tell our last 5 off the bench is better than there last 5. There was no heart in the defense tonight, so many times the whistle was blown and they just let Cleveland shoot it. I would have done my damnest to keep that ball from coming out of their hands!!!


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

kulaz3000 said:


> just when i stop watching the game to look at live stats, i see that TT just has two dunks!!
> 
> geez!


Two dunks in garbage time are his only buckets.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

i know everyone is going to say offense this offense that, but offense wasn't our main problem. in the past two seasons we could win low scoring games, because our defense was great. but today our defense just wasn't there...

look at the stats, we only have 8 turnovers and thats great! but thus far we've been out rebounded 44 to 29 with 3 mins left..

and when a team gets outrebounded its usually because a lack of defensive alertness and hustle. our defense was our biggest fault of this game by far.


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## OziBull (Nov 7, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> Two dunks in garbage time are his only buckets.


Yes true but he has really only had garbage minutes so u cant blame hiM!
Skiles learn and put this kid on! He will give you everything we need! HEART


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

DaBullz said:


> Two dunks in garbage time are his only buckets.


make it three dunks..


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## Frankensteiner (Dec 29, 2004)

kulaz3000 said:


> i know everyone is going to say offense this offense that, but offense wasn't our main problem. in the past two seasons we could win low scoring games, because our defense was great. but today our defense just wasn't there...
> 
> look at the stats, we only have 8 turnovers and thats great! but thus far we've been out rebounded 44 to 29 with 3 mins left..


Our defense was bad, but Lebron, Gooden, Damon Jones, and Marshall also made some difficult jump shots. I bet this is the best game the Cavs will play for the next 2 months.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

Frankensteiner said:


> Our defense was bad, but Lebron, Gooden, Damon Jones, and Marshall also made some difficult jump shots. I bet this is the best game the Cavs will play for the next 2 months.


i hope this is the worst game WE play for the rest of the year, because this was really really painful to watch.


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## Bulls rock your socks (Jun 29, 2006)

The main reason the bulls suck right now is they NEVER do well in the first quarter. if they dont play well then theyll lose. gauranteed!


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

.. we also took some really bad bad bad bad shots. we actually put up alot more shots than the cavs, but thats because we took so many early shots. what happened to our ball movement?? 

but im not going to be dramatic, its only 5 games into the season. i just hope we fix the kinks in our armour and start playing with more continuity...


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

the boxscore..

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=AuYt52ncJgs6tHychs3LvFu8vLYF?gid=2006110905


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

I'm trying to figure out when are these 'breakout' seaons from Gordon & Deng coming?

I think Kirk will be alot better later on in his career than he is now but THOSE two?

SMH

Ben & Luol have only had 2 good games (apiece) out of 5 so far this year.


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

Kirk was one of the only players to show up tonight. I hate that we always have the hardest schedule of any team in the league to start the season. This goes all the way back to the early 90s, I just wish the Circus would never come to Chicago!

This is just so frustrating watching games like this after watching the season opener!!!


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

Darn it.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

It's early, but the deterioration in Wallaces numbers over the past few season looks like no aberration.


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## anorexorcist (Aug 3, 2005)

in the third quarter, drew gooden hit every single jump shot that he took. lebron, varejo, and damon jones added to that in the fourth. 

ilgauskas was doing it in the first half.

we started to keep up with them in the third, but really our lack of a post presence is killing us. steve kerr said it the entire game, and i completely agreed with him--we cannot afford to take jump shots when we're down, it will only make the game worse.

as of this point, especially after watching hte milwaukee game and seeing just how ridiculously amazing gordon played the PG role, i say it's gonna come down to us trading hinrich or gordon. believe it or not i just don't think these two players can coexist and we have to choose right now who we want to be our floor general of the future.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

Only 15 fouls, not acceptable when you get killed like this.

If Gordon isn't the teams go to scorer what is he?


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## Frankensteiner (Dec 29, 2004)

The ROY said:


> I'm trying to figure out when are these 'breakout' seaons from Gordon & Deng coming?
> 
> I think Kirk will be alot better later on in his career than he is now but THOSE two?
> 
> SMH


I think Deng's had a good start to the season. 17/5 in 31 min are very good numbers for a 21 year old.


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## Philomath (Jan 3, 2003)

Chuck says Nocioni needs to start. He may be right.


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

My breakdown so far of our main players.

Kirk Hinrich - When he doesn't get into early foul trouble, he is very effective during the game.
Ben Gordon - Big Surprise? He is too inconsistent so far, and that goes all the way back to the preseason.
Loul Deng - Great so far, jump shot is smoother, playing with more confidence.
Andres Nocioni - Once he is fully healed, will be our best overall big man.
Ben Wallace - Has not earned his paycheck yet, needs to get back the intensity, got killed tonight inside.
PJ Brown - Has picked it up the past 2 games, just provide what Antonio Davis did for the young guys.
Chris Duhon - Besides the Sacramento game, has done well as a backup.
Tyrus Thomas - Great potential, needs to work on more inside moves, his jumpshot is way too erratic.
Thabo Sefelosha - Unbelievable potential, starting to come along much better, eventually going to be the main backup at guard.

I just hate not knowing which team is going to show up. Cleveland is a good team, one of the top 4 in the East but not as good as they played tonight. For some reason though, D. Gooden always plays well against us.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

Bottom line is Cleveland was just toying around with us out there. How many times can you pull the "lack of energy" card whenever we get beat? They have more size and more talent. It was like watching varsity playing against junior varsity. You just had the feeling Cleveland could turn it on against us whenever they wanted.


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## UMfan83 (Jan 15, 2003)

Ben Wallace is going to be the biggest FA bust when all is said and done. Seriously, he would have fit so much better on another team. He's useless for us. I was completely wrong about this signing. 28 minutes? Why because he can't keep up with a high tempo team. He's going to be useless to us unless we can get a low post threat. Otherwise, we will consistantly be exposed as a crappy jumpshooting team.

What the hell Ben Gordon. Real scorers can still get points when their jumpers aren't falling. I see 1-7, 10 points lines all the time. Ben you can't get to the line, you are useless for us.

Thabo looked great tonight. Trade Little Ben for a low post scorer and start Thabo.

And what the hell Drew Gooden. I usually don't make posts where I overreat, but this is rediculous. I think when we finish 43-39 and get knocked out of the first round, we will point to this game as the game where we realized that Paxson was wrong.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

It's hard to shake this one off and call it just one game, it felt like 3 or 4.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

Wow. What a bunch of extreme reactions. We whoop Miami - just crown us champs. Get shown up by Orlando - bring back the "Season is a Wash" thread. Choke to the Kings - "Here we go again - blowing fourth quarter leads". Take it to Milwaukee - "well, maybe things aren't all that bad. Get beat in all phases against the Cavs - "we're the worst team in the league".

C'mon people. Sure it stinks to watch your team lay a big egg on national TV. This team is a blown couple of possesions from being 3-2 instead of 2-3. It's a one game difference. Not the end of the world. This team has 8 new players on it; over a 50% turnover. Two of whom are starters, four others who are rotational players and two who are IR fodder. It takes time.

After the end of December - if this team is still below .500 and inconsistant, then I'll start to question things. It's going to be a rough month. It always is.

Let's just take it to the Pacers and go on the road at .500!


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

fl_flash said:


> Wow. What a bunch of extreme reactions. We whoop Miami - just crown us champs. Get shown up by Orlando - bring back the "Season is a Wash" thread. Choke to the Kings - "Here we go again - blowing fourth quarter leads". Take it to Milwaukee - "well, maybe things aren't all that bad. Get beat in all phases against the Cavs - "we're the worst team in the league".
> 
> C'mon people. Sure it stinks to watch your team lay a big egg on national TV. This team is a blown couple of possesions from being 3-2 instead of 2-3. It's a one game difference. Not the end of the world. This team has 8 new players on it; over a 50% turnover. Two of whom are starters, four others who are rotational players and two who are IR fodder. It takes time.
> 
> ...


I smell elephant ****.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> I smell elephant ****.


perhaps you should bathe?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

fl_flash said:


> perhaps you should bathe?


Barnum & Bailey is setting up shop.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

fl_flash said:


> perhaps you should bathe?


zing!


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

This is one of those games where you just shake your head and go wow Cleaveland had a real nice game on the offensive side of the ball. This game again proves that the Bulls are just to short and un athletic to keep up with a team like Cleaveland, I cant even count how many times Drew Gooden just shot over Ben and PJ tonite, they just shot lights out. 

Ben Gordon was horrible tonite, hes starting to look like Rex Grosman 1 great game 1 bad game. 

This is still a horrible FT shooting team, thats undersized and un athletic, If the Bulls dont find some consistency on both sides of the floor this is at best a .500 team.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

Missed the game, but judging from the box score Cleveland's front line dominated.

It's probably going to take some time for the Bulls to figure a way to deal with teams that have big, talented front lines like Cleveland and Orlando.

Five of the eight front line Bulls are completely new to the team and are still learning the plays and getting to know their teammates. Five (Wallace, Nocioni, Thomas, Marty and Allen) are really pretty small for big men. And one is so fat and out of shape that Skiles won't let him put on a uniform. 

But in time the new Bulls bigs will integrate with the team, the smaller big men will find a way to compensate with quickness for their lack of size, and maybe the fat one will get himself in shape.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

McBulls said:


> Missed the game, but judging from the box score Cleveland's front line dominated.
> 
> It's probably going to take some time for the Bulls to figure a way to deal with teams that have big, talented front lines like Cleveland and Orlando.
> 
> ...


Eh I will give a pass to Noc and Thomas who have little experience guarding NBA bigs. But no excuse for Wallace and the so called vets like Allen and Brown, they just got killed by Gooden and Howard. Even Charlie V had a nice game against the bulls front court.


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## BullSoxChicagosFinest (Oct 22, 2005)

Just watching the DVR now, man Ben is killing me. Just took a shot when out numbered like 3 or 4 on 1 on the fastbreak (and missed). Might be nice for Big Ben to wake up too, paid you a lot of money, but has had more impact in the friggin preseason than any of these regular season games, maybe Skiles needs to stop kissing his ***


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

BullSoxChicagosFinest said:


> Just watching the DVR now, man Ben is killing me. Just took a shot when out numbered like 3 or 4 on 1 on the fastbreak (and missed). Might be nice for Big Ben to wake up too, paid you a lot of money, but has had more impact in the friggin preseason than any of these regular season games, maybe Skiles needs to stop kissing his ***


Man Rasheed Wallace and Ben really complemented eachother, I hope Noc can step his game up and atleast provide as a perimeter threat in the near future.


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

Losses are frustrating, especially when expectations are so high. The mood swings of many people posting are also frustrating.

One game people are talking about Gordon on the all star team, the next we should trade him. Same with other players, our D, our O, the coach, etc. I certainly would like to have seen more consistency in our first 5 games, and I am dissapointed with what has happened since the Miami game. But we need to give this a bit of time. If you go by the first week of the season, it will be New Orleans against Atlanta in the finals. Check the standings so far. All the supposed good teams are inconsistent.

We just lost badly to a team, on the road, who is being pegged as a contender. They have the best player in the league. They were on fire. We stunk. Not a completely unexpected result after their loss to Atlanta.

Take a deep breath people. We have only played 5 games. While I am dissapointed, I am not going off and calling for all sorts of trades. I would like to see Sweetney get a chance. Also give Khryapa some minutes. But a bit too early to call for a break up of the team and declare the season a failure.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

this was an awesome lay up by thabo.. 










great block by big ben which intiated a fast break and we botched a layup..











our bright spot for the game. the thing with kirk is, he can have great games, but he doesn't and can't take over games. he'll make a huge impact on games sure, but he needs another person to play well with him to make an impact. where as players such as gordon can take over a game himself, or stars on other teams. but hinrich is definitly a 2nd or 3rd wheel no matter what.


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## BullSoxChicagosFinest (Oct 22, 2005)

Who else is pissed they stold our defense soundbyte


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Salvaged Ship said:


> Losses are frustrating, especially when expectations are so high. The mood swings of many people posting are also frustrating.
> 
> One game people are talking about Gordon on the all star team, the next we should trade him. Same with other players, our D, our O, the coach, etc. I certainly would like to have seen more consistency in our first 5 games, and I am dissapointed with what has happened since the Miami game. But we need to give this a bit of time. If you go by the first week of the season, it will be New Orleans against Atlanta in the finals. Check the standings so far. All the supposed good teams are inconsistent.
> 
> ...


Here here!! :greatjob:


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

kulaz3000 said:


> great block by big ben which intiated a fast break and we botched a layup..


Yes it was. Gooden did almost all of his damage on outside jump shots. Dude was automatic tonight. The one time he drove on PJ he blew right past him (of course) and then there was this attempt that got swatted away.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

LMAO @ Kirk's face in that pick

Thabo is looking like a building block more and more each game.


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## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

The ROY said:


> LMAO @ Kirk's face in that pick
> 
> Thabo is looking like a building block more and more each game.


i don't ever think thabo will be a superstar, but i think he could be a scottie pippen to someones jordan. and no im not saying his as good as pippen, but his going to be a good partner to a superstar. 

but who will the star be on our team? Gordon? Tyrus??


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

The Bull will never win another game.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Salvaged Ship said:


> Losses are frustrating, especially when expectations are so high. The mood swings of many people posting are also frustrating.
> 
> One game people are talking about Gordon on the all star team, the next we should trade him. Same with other players, our D, our O, the coach, etc. I certainly would like to have seen more consistency in our first 5 games, and I am dissapointed with what has happened since the Miami game. But we need to give this a bit of time. If you go by the first week of the season, it will be New Orleans against Atlanta in the finals. Check the standings so far. All the supposed good teams are inconsistent.
> 
> ...


But the defense . . . what happened to the defense?

When I worried this summer after the Wallace signing that the Bulls hadn't done anything to improve their offense, I was quickly and angrily rebuked with cries of "Oh, our defense will create more offense!" and "We'll shut people down; offense is irrelevant!" and "With great defense, we'll be in it each and every game!"

After five games, I'm not willing to write the team off, but it's clear to me that defenses can have off-nights just the same way offenses do. We're going to struggle against teams with productive bigs, and we're still way, way too reliant on jump shots. All of these things are true regardless of whether the other good teams in the league have started out inconsistently.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

for the game cleveland shot 57%; bad defense, yea some, but there were a number of shots that certain players (pavlovic, marshall, hughes, jones) that i wouldn't have expected a team who's collective fg% was around 41%......

when everybody's making shots, any defense is going to look suspect.

further, a team (the bull) that lives and dies with the jumper quite often will find that a suspect offensive strategy in some games, the bull had more shots AT the hoop, more points in the paint and 8 turnovers; poor shooting (once again) was their undoing. gordon's 1 for 10 won't cut it, plain and simple; that's crawfordesque (though ben did miss OPEN shots). at least skiles wouldn't let ben make it 3 for 19; go with something else, i agree somewhat with that ideaology.

it's early, but i wouldn't start shining up the trophy for cleveland just yet; they're as flawed as the bull, only in a different form.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

BULLHITTER said:


> for the game cleveland shot 57%; bad defense, yea some, but there were a number of shots that certain players (pavlovic, marshall, hughes, jones) that i wouldn't have expected a team who's collective fg% was around 41%......
> 
> when everybody's making shots, any defense is going to look suspect.
> 
> ...


Seems like the bulls and their defense was the cure for whatever was ailing the Cleveland offense. I think that's ScottMay's point.

It's not a good thing.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

ScottMay said:


> But the defense . . . what happened to the defense?
> 
> When I worried this summer after the Wallace signing that the Bulls hadn't done anything to improve their offense, I was quickly and angrily rebuked with cries of "Oh, our defense will create more offense!" and "We'll shut people down; offense is irrelevant!" and "With great defense, we'll be in it each and every game!"
> 
> After five games, I'm not willing to write the team off, but it's clear to me that defenses can have off-nights just the same way offenses do. We're going to struggle against teams with productive bigs, and we're still way, way too reliant on jump shots. All of these things are true regardless of whether the other good teams in the league have started out inconsistently.


The following constitutes the extent of my analysis for this game: We had an off night on both ends of the court, and Cleveland was shooting lights out. 

It sucked. We've had two games like that now. This team needs consistency, and its coming. I'm as calm as a rock right now.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

Worst part about it was getting blown out on national tv like that.....

Now everyone seems to think we're a joke


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> The following constitutes the extent of my analysis for this game: We had an off night on both ends of the court, and Cleveland was shooting lights out.
> 
> It sucked. We've had two games like that now. This team needs consistency, and its coming. I'm as calm as a rock right now.


It's probably just a coincidence both "off nights" came on the road vs. teams with good bigs.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

ScottMay said:


> It's probably just a coincidence both "off nights" came on the road vs. teams with good bigs.


I think it was painfully obvious that the Bulls, as a whole, looked flat right from tip off in those games. 

You guys can read what you want into these first 5 games. The only game that bothered me was Sacramento. 

I'm not worried yet. Not in the least.


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