# Rookie of the Year 2012 Watch Thread



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Here we are. There are a lot of names being thrown around for ROY, so lets make a thread for them.

I like the Suns' Morris. He's got a lot of hustle and it's only a matter of time before Nash uses him for a pick and roll. He can hit the 3pt shot and put a body down low.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Rubio made some beautiful passes. Great to see a PG with actual passing ability enter the league.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Yeah, he surprised me. I guess he didn't care about his Euro games. Maybe he was trying to get released.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

I said this about Rubio last year. It made perfect sense that he struggled in the Euro leagues because he's an open-court point guard with a shaky jumper. Rondo would look miserable playing for Barcelona and Delonte West would light the continent on fire(he'd be pretty good at their brand of basketball too). Don't try to make Rubio into Steve Nash just because that's the default comparison for every white point guard with floppy hair. He's White Rondo.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

If you saw nash as a rookie, you'd know he didn't have a great jumper. He also wasn't very good.


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## rayz789 (Oct 30, 2008)

I think walker will be the rookie of the year. I would have say derrick williams but he wont get many minutes cause love and beasley.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Hyperion said:


> If you saw nash as a rookie, you'd know he didn't have a great jumper. He also wasn't very good.


Nash shot over 41% from three in each of his first two years in the league. The guy might not have been a good NBA point guard early in his career, but he could shoot even then.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Hyperion said:


> Yeah, he surprised me. I guess he didn't care about his Euro games. Maybe he was trying to get released.


Or the Euro game is completely different and people can't judge young point guards based on stats alone over there. A lot of people that wrote him off already are going to feel dumb.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

Kemba.

He didn't have a great shooting night last night but he showed he wasn't shy about putting shots up and he got to shoot 7 free throws. The ability to draw fouls is one of the best skills you can have in this league unfortunately


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## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

Kemba did look good out there, despite the poor FG's. Hit some key free throws and looked confident out there in a tight game. 

I watched all of Minnesota's game, and if Rubio gets the starting job, he could definitely be in with a shot because there's a lot of assists in that Minnesota team, especially for someone with such brilliant passing ability.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Norris Cole has gotta be the darkhorse. Says a lot about how weak the draft class was, but still hes been the most impressive rookie thus far.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)




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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Norris Cole has zero chance. Don't be dumb.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> Or the Euro game is completely different and people can't judge young point guards based on stats alone over there. A lot of people that wrote him off already are going to feel dumb.


I wrote him off. Not looking great so far. For me that is.


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

Klay Thompson!!!!


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

ßen said:


> if Rubio gets the starting job, he could definitely be in with a shot because there's a lot of assists in that Minnesota team, especially for someone with such brilliant passing ability.


Not to mention he can really knock down the foul line jump shot. Granted, that's the extent of his range. Still, he would be about an 11/4/11 guy as a starter this season if he gets the shot.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Jamel Irief said:


> Norris Cole has zero chance. Don't be dumb.


Probably not, but hes been as impressive as any rookie thus far.


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## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

MarShon Brooks is leading all rookies in scoring. Over 15 ppg on 49% shooting in just 21 minutes. I wonder if he can keep that up. Him and Williams are the Nets' only offensive threats.


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## marcus_sr (Jan 1, 2012)

Gotta rep my city... I think Kyrie and Tristan both have a shot at the ROY, once Kyrie gets into a shooting groove I think he can lead rooks in scoring and will battle Rubio for rook top assist man. Going to Miami Mr. 40 twenty as I call him Norris Cole can surprise everybody he is big time.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

GrandKenyon6 said:


> MarShon Brooks is leading all rookies in scoring. Over 15 ppg on 49% shooting in just 21 minutes. I wonder if he can keep that up. Him and Williams are the Nets' only offensive threats.


Which just makes me so glad the C's traded him for a power forward who doesn't weigh enough to play his position.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Rubio is my favorite, and if he wins he'll be the third straight player from the 2009 class to win.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Rubio looking a safe bet right now - particularly when (not if) he takes that starting PG gig.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Jamel Irief said:


> Rubio is my favorite, and if he wins he'll be the third straight player from the 2009 class to win.


lol!


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## Maravilla (Jul 6, 2010)

Jamel Irief said:


> Rubio is my favorite, and if he wins he'll be the third straight player from the 2009 class to win.


History. Best draft class EVAR.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Why no love for Irving in this thread? The Cavs aren't nearly as bad as last year and Irving already looks like there best player. He seems to have the complete package: good passer, good shooter, and excellent ballhandler. He also looks like more athletic then people thought as he's had a couple of nice blocks this season


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

I haven't watched a cavs game all year, but with varejao back they should be better.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

If he stays healthy, Irving is going to run away with this. He's frighteningly good off the dribble


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

If/when Rubio gets the starting nod, he is going to be right there with Irving. Irving is really good though, even in limited time last year he was far and away the best player in college basketball. If he never got hurt, I think Duke would've repeated, as much as that pains me to say as a UNC fan.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

So far this looks like Irving to me. I am still wondering why everyone claimed that he sucked or something. The floor for him has always been ten year starter to me and he is picking it up faster than I thought he would. I expect he's going to be up and down, but he's a pretty good player and it is hard to see why some people thought Derrick Williams should have been the first pick.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Pioneer10 said:


> If he stays healthy, Irving is going to run away with this. He's frighteningly good off the dribble


Irving is not running away from Rubio. Not saying Irving won't win, but it will hardly be a 90% of the votes type blow out.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Kemba gets his first start because Diaw is fat, lazy and too busy sucking. Goes 8-15, 23 Pts,4 Rebs, 5 Assists. I was watching the playoffs so I could not say more. Really thought he had been forcing it too much lately so I am really glad he had a good game.


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## Neal (Jan 15, 2012)

I'm throwing my name in the hat for Rubio as well.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Like I said Irving is going to run away with this barring injury. Kid is unreal and the coach still hasn't fully let go of the reins yet.


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## FaNashtic (Jan 16, 2012)

I'm backing Ricky Rubio this year, he's looking mighty strong coming out of the blocks, definitely.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Irving has another great game and Kemba puts up a stinker head to head, I was really hoping Kemba would be better than he has shown to be so far. Right now this is Irving's award.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Irving has a PER of 21.3 and that is before another great game tonight.
5 straight games of 20 or more points. Leads the team in scoring and assists and the Cavs are at .500.

Doubt the Cavs stay at .500 but Irving looks better every single game


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## marcus_sr (Jan 1, 2012)

Pioneer10 said:


> Irving has a PER of 21.3 and that is before another great game tonight.
> 5 straight games of 20 or more points. Leads the team in scoring and assists and the Cavs are at .500.
> 
> Doubt the Cavs stay at .500 but Irving looks better every single game


This can probably go into the who I was wrong about thread too, but I was so wrong about Kyrie, as a die hard Cavs fan I thought we should have took Derrick Williams. Im glad they didn't this guy is super efficient, he is finding his game as a player early. He has nice shift moves, change of speed and a great handle now the Cavs needs an athletic big...cough cough Perry Jones III and they will be alright


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Definitely looks like a 2-man race between Irving and Rubio at the moment.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

^ Seconded.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

RollWithEm said:


> Definitely looks like a 2-man race between Irving and Rubio at the moment.


Pretty much. If the Cavs can stay around .500 (huge if) and Irving keeps putting up his current numbers he'll run away with it.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

Its a run away race for Rubio, the kid is Epic. Truly Epic.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Stop with the "running away" claims. Unless you think your guy is going to get 90% of the vote, and anyone that feels that way about any rookie right now is clueless.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Last 10 games: 

Rubio - 11.6/5.1/9.8 with 3.3 steals and 3.5 turnovers on 33/30/87 shooting %s

Irving - 18.8/3.1/4.5 with 0.7 steals and 4.3 turnovers on 52/41/81 shooting %s

These stats confirm what I've been seeing from these two all season. Irving is the much more gifted shooter/scorer while Rubio has played better in the other facets of the game.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

I don't know, I haven't even seen Irving play outside of one game, but every time I've watched Rubio I've been very impressed. It's not even just his passing ability, he just controls the flow of every game that he's in. He's running that Wolves offense like a ten year vet at this point, and there's something to be said about a rookie that dictates the flow of the game.

Irving has pretty scoring numbers, but his defense has aparently been atrocious and looking at the numbers he's been a pretty poor passer. I'll have to catch a few more Cav games to be sure, but at this point I think Ricky is the frontrunner.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Irving is definitely ahead right now. Great game to lead Cleveland to a win in Boston. I can't get over how good he has been in closing out games.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

There is no way Rubio is the frontrunner. Its ridiculous how good Irving is and don't give me crap on assist numbers. His starters around him are Anthony Parker, Jamison, Casspi, and AV. AV is the only quality starter and he's a boards and defense guy. Just think of how few stars in this league could take that crappy lineup to an 8-11 record


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

I wonder how Irving has been performing so well with all the time he spent stuck under the sofa cushion in the NBA RV.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Pioneer10 said:


> There is no way Rubio is the frontrunner. Its ridiculous how good Irving is and don't give me crap on assist numbers. His starters around him are Anthony Parker, Jamison, Casspi, and AV. AV is the only quality starter and he's a boards and defense guy. Just think of how few stars in this league could take that crappy lineup to an 8-11 record


I have no problems with you saying Irving is the frontrunner. I do have problems with people saying he's "running away with it" same goes for Rubio.

You won't convince me that Rubio wouldn't be averaging 8 assists per game on the Cavs though. Rubio is just a better passer hands down. That's not an insult, I can only think of 3 point guards I think are better passers.


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## marcus_sr (Jan 1, 2012)

Jamel Irief said:


> I have no problems with you saying Irving is the frontrunner. I do have problems with people saying he's "running away with it" same goes for Rubio.
> 
> You won't convince me that Rubio wouldn't be averaging 8 assists per game on the Cavs though. Rubio is just a better passer hands down. That's not an insult, I can only think of 3 point guards I think are better passers.


Maybe not runaway but after Rubio and Kyrie who else is there? I think it kind of like the 09 race that Tyreke won, granted Griffin and Rubio did not play but after Jennings and Evans that year who else was there. I think Kyrie wins this though because he is playing with less talent.

http://youtu.be/Lj66SuIg6tg


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

You do realize that Rubio leads the league in steals right now, right? He's also top 3 in assists. If he could shoot worth a damn, he'd be running away with the ROY. The Wolves are poised to win 30+ this year after winning a whole 17 last year! If this were an 82 game season, they would be on pace to win 40 games. You can't tell me that Rubio isn't a huge reason for that! For reference, the Cavs haven't exactly been world beaters either. They've beaten the Bobcats twice, the nets, knicks and suns. The wolves have beaten Mavs twice, Spurs twice, and the Clips. 

Compare straight numbers because this award is just that:
18ppg 5apg 3.5rpg
vs
11ppg 8.8apg 4.6 rpg 2.3spg


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Rubio is playing with a PF who is averaging 25 and 13. Seriously I wonder people have any clue about Cleveland: we are starting Anthony Parker, Antwan Jamison, Casspi, and Varejao. Guys like Derrick Williams, Milicic, Love, Beasley, and even an absolute scrub like Wesley Johnson would start for us. I repeat we are starting Anthony freakin Parker at the SG. 

The Cavs aren't particularly interested in winning this year as shown by them limiting Kyrie's minutes and showcasing Sessions. Irving is only at 28 minutes. This shows the per game number don't do justice how good of a job Irving is doing. Take a look at the efficiency stats though and they are eye opening. Just looking at PG's, Irving is the only guy who is in top 10 in terms of scoring among PG's and TS% among PG's. His PER is an awesome 22.86 right now. Compare that to Minnesota who is desperate to win finally and whose lottery pick is going to to NO where Rubio is getting 34 mgp despite also having another competent PG in Ridnour


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## marcus_sr (Jan 1, 2012)

Well Said. I think people still think we have the guy who jumps over people's heads on our team..No instead we have "Father Time" Antwan Jamison, and Anthony Parker, Please don't tell me they compare to Michael Beasley and Kevin Love.



Pioneer10 said:


> Rubio is playing with a PF who is averaging 25 and 13. Seriously I wonder people have any clue about Cleveland: we are starting Anthony Parker, Antwan Jamison, Casspi, and Varejao. Guys like Derrick Williams, Milicic, Love, Beasley, and even an absolute scrub like Wesley Johnson would start for us. I repeat we are starting Anthony freakin Parker at the SG.
> 
> The Cavs aren't particularly interested in winning this year as shown by them limiting Kyrie's minutes and showcasing Sessions. Irving is only at 28 minutes. This shows the per game number don't do justice how good of a job Irving is doing. Take a look at the efficiency stats though and they are eye opening. Just looking at PG's, Irving is the only guy who is in top 10 in terms of scoring among PG's and TS% among PG's. His PER is an awesome 22.86 right now. Compare that to Minnesota who is desperate to win finally and whose lottery pick is going to to NO where Rubio is getting 34 mgp despite also having another competent PG in Ridnour


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I just ran into this article in the NYTimes and it seems to confirm statistically what most would have suspected about Irvings lack of raw assists. I didn't need anyone to tell me that the other Cavs couldn't shoot, but the number is about what you'd expect from watching them.



> Irving’s ability to score points in volume while maintaining a high efficiency rate is exceedingly valuable, but he is also helping Cleveland’s offense in other ways. *He had assisted on an estimated 34.7 percent of his teammates’ field goals while he was on the floor, tops on the Cavaliers and the 12th-highest rate in the league. This fact is even more remarkable when you consider that Irving’s teammates were shooting a combined .419 from the field, well below the N.B.A. average, .443*.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Irving has impressed me. I did not think that he would be this good of a scorer this quickly.

But if Rubio ever gets a jumper then this won't be a comparison down the road. Ricky is literally better at every single other facet of the game.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Irving offensive skillset is exceptional. Can't remember the last time a 19 yo old had such a complete arsenal.

-exception ballhandling
-drives well going right or left
-shoots well standing still or the pull up jumper
-good midrange game
-good floater
-finishes with both hands
-spin move
-finishes thru contact.

The only thing I haven't really seen him do is post somebody but everything else he's good at. With his shooting ability both when he's set and off the dribble, it's a nightmare to guard him when he coming at you with his Tim Hardaway calibre handle. Had a play last night when he just froze Brandon Knight as we went right around him.


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## marcus_sr (Jan 1, 2012)

Kyrie is basically a lock for ROY at this point in my opinion. If nothing freak happens. It's amazing he played 11 games last year and is still above the rest, he is about as close as you can get for a complete offensive game...he just has to commit on defense.


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## jaw2929 (Dec 11, 2011)

Kyrie Irving is going to win, I don't think there's much question really.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)




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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Yeah I'll admit that's it's Kyrie at this point. He is much, much better than I anticipated him to be. Especially as a scorer and a closer. Dude is going to be a player in this league.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

Rubio should Win, he is clearly the winner of ROTY. But of course the media blows up the Cleveland product because its a good story just like D-Rose...Such a sham


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Irving has been clearly better than Rubio. That is the truth and I don't see any reasonable argument against it. His defense has not been good, but the truth is that he has been one of the most efficient rookies ever going by PER. It's pretty damned hard to score the ball as efficiently as he has when most of the guys of the floor with you are barely NBA players too. If I were playing them I would just ignore everyone on that team except him and Jamison, and Jamison sucks half the time too. The organization is limiting Irving's minutes too. If he were playing heavy minutes his raw numbers would probably be eyepopping.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Irving's definitely going to win this award. I can't believe people were so quick to dismiss him. He was the best player in college basketball last year by a sizable margin when he was healthy.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Slowly but surely Irving is going to run away with this as I predicted barring injury. Even though we suck you don't want to be in a tight game against the Cavs because teams can't keep Kyrie out of the paint in the fourth quarter. He gone all Isiah on a few teams now with 4th quarter scoring burst with the latest one being Denver.


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## marcus_sr (Jan 1, 2012)

uhhhh...yeah Mr. Irving is a lock for this right, this guy is becoming Mr. 4th quarter.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Well, we all know how Cleveland fans feel about the ROY race.

To me it's a pretty even heat between Rubio and Irving.

Rubio 10.5/8.2/4.2
Irving 18.6/5.2/3.2


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Hyperion said:


> Well, we all know how Cleveland fans feel about the ROY race.
> 
> To me it's a pretty even heat between Rubio and Irving.
> 
> ...


Rubio can't shoot. Thinks he's great but he's got to work on scoring more efficiently.
Meanwhile, Irving is I think top 5 in 4th quarter scoring now. Can't keep him out of the paint because you have to respect his very good jumper


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## rayz789 (Oct 30, 2008)

Derrick Williams last night play great vs the lakers. Yes the lakers barely won but williams show why he's number 2 draft pick in which i still feel the cavs should have went after him instead of irving. Williams has the star in him and he can be exciting to watch as well. It sucks he hadnt play many good minutes this season cause of love/beasley on the roster.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Kyrie's +/- by qtr:

1st quarter - -52
2nd quarter - -67
3rd quarter - -4
4th quarter - +62


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

rayz789 said:


> Derrick Williams last night play great vs the lakers. Yes the lakers barely won but williams show why he's number 2 draft pick in which* i still feel the cavs should have went after him instead of irving.* Williams has the star in him and he can be exciting to watch as well. It sucks he hadnt play many good minutes this season cause of love/beasley on the roster.


Dude you are going to end up in a rubber room at this rate. Irving is playing like a superstar and Williams has had a very small number of games where he even had a positive impact. Williams is playing like he may or may not be good enough to start on bad NBA teams. He's not more exciting than guys like Dorell Wright, who no one gives a damn about either.

Isaiah Thomas, Iman Shumpert, Brandon Knight, Marshon Brooks....All of those guys are having better rookie seasons than Williams. Kemba, Faried and Biyombo are probably all on the same level as him too. Knight has done enough to merit some talk in this thread and so has Thomas. Williams has just had a few decent games.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

The Williams' hype has always amused me.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Irving is similar to Isiah with a better jumper. It's eerie watching him attack the basket: like watching Zeke back in the day


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Irving done did it against the Hawks last night. He was clearly the best player on the floor.

I was wrong about the kid. Hope he has a great career.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I would guess that Rubio will still finish second, but I am impressed with Isaiah Thomas. He looks like he could become a pretty good player. Right now he's just a decent starter and he's not a young rookie. Kings actually look like they have a half a clue with him running the team too. You're living well when you get a starter with the last pick of the draft. Of course it would have been good to have used the 10th pick on a starter as well.


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## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

Kenneth Faried 27 Pts, 17 Reb, 1 Ast, 2 Stl, 1 Blk in 24 minutes


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## Priest (Jun 24, 2003)

if irving want in this class I would call it the worse draft class since kenyon martin got drafted


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## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

Priest said:


> if irving want in this class I would call it the worse draft class since kenyon martin got drafted


No this class is better that shithole, it is worst class since 2006 though.


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## Priest (Jun 24, 2003)

Jamel Irief said:


> Stop with the "running away" claims. Unless you think your guy is going to get 90% of the vote, and anyone that feels that way about any rookie right now is clueless.


still feel the same way?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Pioneer10 said:


> Rubio can't shoot. Thinks he's great but he's got to work on scoring more efficiently.
> Meanwhile, Irving is I think top 5 in 4th quarter scoring now. Can't keep him out of the paint because you have to respect his very good jumper


Point guards pass....


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## Xeneise (Jul 5, 2010)

R-Star said:


> Point guards pass....



16.8 ppg | 6.3 apg | 3.9 rpg | 52%ts | 16.0 PER - ROY
18.8 ppg | 5.7 apg | 3.9 rpg | 57%ts | 21.6 PER - ?

Irving's on track - or better.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Time to unstick this now that Irving has won.


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