# Mark Aguirre's Big Man Camp



## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

http://www.nypost.com/seven/0713200...ig_men_coming_up_small_knicks_marc_berman.htm



> SHAME on Eddy Curry. Shame on Jerome James and Jared Jeffries.
> 
> Curry dodged this week's voluntary Knicks big-man minicamp in Las Vegas that assistant Mark Aguirre organized to coincide with summer-league play.
> 
> ...


Marc Berman sure is getting his shots in


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

http://www.nypost.com/seven/0713200...ig_men_coming_up_small_knicks_marc_berman.htm

Thats the biggest question..they both can score BUT how will chemistry play out..Thats my biggest problem with IT signings he almost never thinks how players will mesh..





You have to give Marc Berman his PROPS on that article, because it said alot about the Knicks 23 and 33 WIN Seasons. If any Knick-Player belongs in the Knicks Bigman mini-camp in Los Vegas it have to be Eddy Curry. His non-passing-skillz when doubled is worst than his rebounding and defense which is non existing. Plus Zack Randolph showed up. 

For Marc Berman to add the BIG-BUST of the two-max MLE Knick-Players in the same article with both being Frontcourt Players that are supposed to give Eddy Curry talent some improvement in the Frontcourt, but made it look like President Zeke is clueless when spending $BIG Money$ on veteran players that dont mesh together under any circumstances. Yet President/Coach Zeke have to give these players playingtime because of their huge contract which made Zeke a "SAVE-FACE" Losing Coach this past season. 

First Impression:
How will all this affect how Zack Randolph look at this Knick organization, players, coaches, and Brass???


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*Lets be honest, does anyone know a Basketball player that likes to play with a teammate that never passes the ball when he is double or tipple teamed???*


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Kiyaman said:


> *Lets be honest, does anyone know a Basketball player that likes to play with a teammate that never passes the ball when he is double or tipple teamed???*



Now you have two of them in Curry and Randolph. 

I loved that Zach showed up late....LOL that's not like him at all.

Zach however is one of the hardest working guys in the league when it comes to offense and off season workouts. You should have no problem with him there.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

Somehow I see *PF-Zack Randolph* Meshing better with *Jerome James *at the Center, rather than Eddy Curry. Especially with *SF-Q.Richardson *peremeter shooting or *SF-Balkman *slashing to the hoop. 
*Those (highlighted) Four Frontcourt players *would be easier for Mark Aquire to get meshing-chemisrty from on both sides of the court than singlely trying to improve all of Curry missing talents to become a tandem with Zack. 

Dont be suprise when you see a better frontcourt Tandem in *"C-Lee & PF-Zack"* in the lineup, or *"C-Curry & PF-Lee"* rather than this Curry & Zack lineup thats being advertized this offseason...


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## different_13 (Aug 30, 2005)

Hell, Curry for Artest (as a rough idea).
If you can get Miller, all the better - at least that would improve the passing! - chuck in Jeffries. And picks - the Knicks have enough young guys imo.

Miller/James
Randolph/Lee/Morris
Artest/Balkman/Chandler
Q/Crawford
Marbury/Robinson/Collins

That's 13 players, I say keep Fred Jones. That's 14.
I like the Nichols oversea idea, so still 14.
Is Malik Rose still on the team?
That's 15 then.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

When given a one year contract for any sport it should be your main Priority to stay healthy and fit throughout that contract. The same with a 6 year contract. *The Knicks BIG-MONEY Players in their Starting Lineup PROBLEM is being a TEAM!*

*Point well taken on everything else however*, we must remember when you are a Scorer on a team you have to learn how to pass the ball to your teammates to make you a better scoring threat on a TEAM. 
Example: Paul Pierce and Ray Allen NBA Career gets the majority of their points in the 4th quarter. they play Posum throughout the first three quarters just scoring here or there but in the 4th Qtr. they are liable to score 20 points in that Qtr.. 

*When Marbury turns into Starbury all his teammates STAND AROUND on offense. When a Play is called for Eddy Curry all his teammates stand around.* This is not just when these two players started playing for the Knicks this is the same thing that been happening on their previous teams before they became a Knick. 
It's very bad for this Knick Team because both Zack and Crawford gets the same treatment from their teammates. 
This is the reason why reporting to Mark Aquire Summer Mini-Camp session should've been (Priority) important to Curry, Zack, Crawford, and Marbury, they have to work-out together way before training camp opens. *WHY?* Because when any of them do not have the BALL in their hands on offense they FREEZE and become the main STAND-STILL Players on the court (and not just on offense but defense too). And do not forget that none of these players put in ANY EFFORT in their passing-skillz to make their teammates a better scorer, especially that once in a while Crawford to Curry alley-oop. 
*Knick-Fans should hurt bad when their oponents fans say, "you may have Curry, Marbury, Crawford, and now Zack (Francis), but you only have ONE-BALL !". *

*The "ONE on ONE" Scoring Players are on this Knick Team, but the Offense-Talent as a TEAM is missing...*


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## nymoorestx (Jul 1, 2005)

Give curry a break. It was also reported tht he has been working out hard and with some of the coaches. There will be other minicamps and he'll be there. He had previous anniversary plans with his wife, and he honored that committment. That's real life.


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## nieman (Jun 6, 2006)

OK, he won't work out with the team (even though it's volutary), when there are players/personnel to witness his development, but instead he'll work solo with only the trainers on the payroll to vouch for him? If anything he should be the main one wanting to work out with the team, cause he's a horrible team player. Hell, he's not even good with the 2-man game. The biggest quip is that he's using the anniversay as a clutch, but apparantly his anniversay vacation started when the season ended, meaning it's been 3 months. Now does anyone honestly believe he has been on vacation with his wife for 3 months?


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Let me tell you something*

I don't care if its his 25th anniversary. If you are making MILLIONS of dollars playing a damned game, you ought to show some respect to the people paying you. I'm sure his wife, who is a beneficiary of much of those same dollars, would choose the mini camp over not having them to spend. Real life is working like a dog and making 20k. THATS real life. These guys live a fantasy life.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Let me tell you something*



alphaorange said:


> I don't care if its his 25th anniversary. If you are making MILLIONS of dollars playing a damned game, you ought to show some respect to the people paying you. I'm sure his wife, who is a beneficiary of much of those same dollars, would choose the mini camp over not having them to spend. Real life is working like a dog and making 20k. THATS real life. These guys live a fantasy life.


its called voluntary camp ...if the knicks aren't worried about it I dont see why any1 else would care so much.

and its been said before he has been to the previous ones , the knicks more than likely had notice he was missing this camp before zach was even traded aquired.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Man, it's July. Training camp isn't till October. Is this really a big deal?


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Yeah, its a big deal*

For a lot of reasons. Number one, he's supposed to be a leader and leaders lead by example. Number two, the team has had major changes in the front line make up and chemistry will take time. Time that should not be spent learning when the games count. Lastly, this ain't a part time job. Like Malik said in his interview, preparation is a year round endeavor for winners.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Yeah, its a big deal*



alphaorange said:


> For a lot of reasons. Number one, he's supposed to be a leader and leaders lead by example. Number two, the team has had major changes in the front line make up and chemistry will take time. Time that should not be spent learning when the games count. Lastly, this ain't a part time job. Like Malik said in his interview, preparation is a year round endeavor for winners.


so just because the knicks schedule a *voluntary* camp no matter what is going on his personal life he has to be there ?

you cant be serious ...players miss playoff games for personal matters at times, players have blown off any number of things for things such as anniverseries , weddings , vacations funerals etc and usually no one says a thing.

and its not like these guys haven't been working on their game , its a well known fact Qrich JC and curry work on their games in chicago every summer together .

and just about every team has some sort of significant change in the offseason most teams get at least 1 new starter and the knicks are no different , they got randolph and the knicks have plenty of camp time scheduled this summer , you cant pospone the calender his anniversery is on a certain date and its been like that for a year , long before the knicks scheduled this *voluntary* camp.

How many voluntary camps do you think Michael Jordan attended ?

in fact its been documented the bulls for a significant portion of his career didn't do anything extra with the team, not even in season workouts preferring to work with his own trainer Tim grover , (also a guy incedently who works with Curry in chicago BTW) and the bulls not only didn't have a problem with it, they were kind of relieved that he didn't show. 

I dont recall any offseason workouts ever that he attended actually that were team organized and I think most would consider him a winner.

all that matters is that Curry puts in his work on his game to be a better player which the knicks seem to believe up to this point he has , i dont see any reason to doubt them.

and actually it is a part time job , the nba has no right to have anything but voluntary camps in the summer , its mandated by the CBA, most players who want to improve put in the work needed but anything they do is gravy they aren't required to do a thing, and since curry has been working with the knicks up til now with no questions I dont see why he cant have a week or so to himself and his family.


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## nymoorestx (Jul 1, 2005)

Amen Da Grinch.

Seems like folks hate on players because they have great jobs. Most of us put in punch a clock and then punch back out when it's our time. Sure we do things on our time to help us advance our careers, but we aren't sowing up for every voluntary thing that somebody throws together. Judge Curry, when we get closer to the season. He' putting in work and he will continue to do so.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

I'm with Curry on this one, he has a life too so let him spend some quality time with them...on "his time". Besides, he is constantly on the road during the season, and whatever time he has available to be with his wife and kids should be taken advantage of.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*You guys are just plain wrong on this one*

Kitty, he has had "quality time" since the end of the season and will have more from now until the start of training camp. How much time does he need? NYmoore...nobody said he had to show up for every voluntary thing that comes along. Dumb statement. How many camps do you think there are? It was a frickin' WEEK. And some advice to you....if you don't put in extra effort in your career, you won't advance as much as you could. Thats a fact.
You guys are missing the point. The Knicks are far from a contending team, and developing chemistry and camaraderie is paramount, unless you want a repeat of last year. Sorry, but I'll take the opinion of an NBA player with a ring, over your opinions (Malik Rose). 

BTW, I don't hate on any players for any reason. I think they have great jobs. All pro players do. I also think they are compensated beyond reason for what they do. Asking something extra of them is not out of line. And grinch, you make a lot of statements about a lot of players missing time for a bunch of undefined reasons and that it happens all the time. I say you are full of crap. If it is real...and serious...they get time off. Rarely, if ever, do they get time off for non-serious matters, like birthdays, anniversaries, etc., and certainly not a full week. Love to see some examples.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: You guys are just plain wrong on this one*



alphaorange said:


> Kitty, he has had "quality time" since the end of the season and will have more from now until the start of training camp. How much time does he need? NYmoore...nobody said he had to show up for every voluntary thing that comes along. Dumb statement. How many camps do you think there are? It was a frickin' WEEK. And some advice to you....if you don't put in extra effort in your career, you won't advance as much as you could. Thats a fact.
> You guys are missing the point. The Knicks are far from a contending team, and developing chemistry and camaraderie is paramount, unless you want a repeat of last year. Sorry, but I'll take the opinion of an NBA player with a ring, over your opinions (Malik Rose).
> 
> BTW, I don't hate on any players for any reason. I think they have great jobs. All pro players do. I also think they are compensated beyond reason for what they do. Asking something extra of them is not out of line. And grinch, you make a lot of statements about a lot of players missing time for a bunch of undefined reasons and that it happens all the time. I say you are full of crap. If it is real...and serious...they get time off. Rarely, if ever, do they get time off for non-serious matters, like birthdays, anniversaries, etc., and certainly not a full week. Love to see some examples.


I've never seen a player get married during the season , they are not home much ...so of course their anniverseries aren't during the season . but a fair share to my knowledge have gotten married the last few seasons in the 1st few weeks of July (t-mac , tyson chandler , ray allen , tony parker, vince carter, antawn jamison ...and of course eddy curry) , in 4 of those players cases turning down team USA's invitation because of it.

zach got time off because his girlfriend's cousin died last season , to me thats not really all that high a priority , it would be harder getting time off from a regular job for that unlike your own wedding or anniversery.

on the knicks alone francis got time off last year when every1 knew he wasn't hurt he was just upset about his lack of playing time because JC took his starting spot.

the year before Penny was gone for the same reason....same with former knick tim thomas the same season

these are not good reasons , try taking off from your job because you aren't getting to do what you want to do as much as you want to do it...so yes it does happen alpha more than you apparently think.

players have taken time off of practices for graduation (vince carter) doctor visits for their daughter (derek fisher, also late for a playoff game because of surgery to the same daughter)

also the nba only pays nba players their pay during the season its very much acknowledged that this is their time to do as they wish , at most they can get at this point is per diem which only matters to the lower paid nba players such as free agents and guys on their rookie deals.
.

very few people are perfect at their jobs, just about every1 can use some improvement , it in no way gives their bosses free reign to take their free time from them without pay to improve upon it.

and they do have other camps scheduled this summer ...in addition to the fact that anytime they want they can have their coaches supervise their games , curry has had more than a few visits already from knick coaches since the offseason started.

the simple fact is its not really hard to play with your teammates over the summer, you can always schedule another camp , in addition to the ones they already have, also the team isn't fully intact at this point anyway , no marbury , the young guys are playing amongst themselves working on their summer league, no jeffries.

you are overestimating the impact of this *voluntary* camp, its not going to make or break their season.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*You're right*

It won't make or break the season...maybe. You might feel differently if the Knicks miss by one or two games and Curry and Randolph struggle with chemistry early on but get it going later. Every analyst has said it will be hard to get it going smoothly right off but it will be great offensively when they do. The East will be better this year (it has to be) and the Knicks may struggle to make the playoffs if they get out of the gate poorly.

Getting married is not the same as an anniversary and this is but one year. As far as Francis and the others getting time off for questionable injuries, management can't touch that with a ten foot pole. Union would be all over that because they couldn't prove there was no injury. Not sure how your family is but in mine, the cousins are very close...almost like brothers and sisters. You shouldn't judge his support for his GF. You can't be serious about putting Fischer in the same category, can you? Comparing a single practice during the season to this camp is weak, man. You're reaching to make a point. Why don't we just leave it that we are far apart on this one.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: You're right*



alphaorange said:


> It won't make or break the season...maybe. You might feel differently if the Knicks miss by one or two games and Curry and Randolph struggle with chemistry early on but get it going later. Every analyst has said it will be hard to get it going smoothly right off but it will be great offensively when they do. The East will be better this year (it has to be) and the Knicks may struggle to make the playoffs if they get out of the gate poorly.
> 
> Getting married is not the same as an anniversary and this is but one year. As far as Francis and the others getting time off for questionable injuries, management can't touch that with a ten foot pole. Union would be all over that because they couldn't prove there was no injury. Not sure how your family is but in mine, the cousins are very close...almost like brothers and sisters. You shouldn't judge his support for his GF. You can't be serious about putting Fischer in the same category, can you? Comparing a single practice during the season to this camp is weak, man. You're reaching to make a point. Why don't we just leave it that we are far apart on this one.



actually in my post I used a single practice , a 3 day leave and extended stays that lasted months , the full gambit of leaves ...you should not try to attack when its not valid , sometimes its serious , sometimes it isn't, i thought that obvious that i wasn't using just 1 type of instance .

you have no idea how close zach's girlfriend was to her cousin, neither do i , but i do know this, Zach wasn't all that close to him and she in all likelyhood wasn't there at the strip club with him where he spent at least 1 of those days he was on leave...his grief was virtually non-existant, it was a vacation for him.

how much chemistry can be formed when you cant have your intact starting line up at full speed?

with no games with all 5 positions

Q is still getting back in the flow and i dont think either jeffries or balkman is scrimaging with them ... no collins, no robinson i dont remember hearing crawford playing.

its a big man camp , its just the coaches working with the players for the most part . no different than if they went to pete newell's camp

1 week in july makes no difference for no player not in summer league, its just a getting to know you type situation and some work with the coaching staff.

and the injuries to penny and francis weren't questionable they legitimately got hurt but were healthy again long before they came back to the team or were traded....they just didn't want to be part of the team if they weren't going to have their way and the team didn't want them poisoning their young players when they have no real impact on the win column.

and really i dont think much adjustment will be needed on curry's part , the playbook to my knowledge hasn't changed , its much more important for Zach to be there because hasn't been on the team for 2 years like curry or played in zeke's system for a year.

zach's spot in the offense will be frye's and there are sets in the offense where frye got the post over curry , it just may be called more often, its just now the knicks will actually score during them now.

zach really doesn't do much that frye couldn't except dribbling, zach has a legit face up game, he just does it better.


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## nymoorestx (Jul 1, 2005)

alphaorange
Ithink that you are putting way too much on a "big man's camp." As has been stated it's far more important for Zach then it is for Curry (and it's debatable how important it is for Zach, since his low post game is already pretty good.

As far as quality time, the off season is his and during the preseason and season he belongs to the Knicks. 

In regard to careers, those who just show up don't advance, it]s those who come ready to perform. I'll got a lot of folk wo are willing to show up, but the performers get the bonus checks. And you know what they figure out what to do and how to get it done faster. I think Curry has been working hard (accoding to folks on the Knicks) and that he knows the play book. He needs 5 on 5 work, which this wasn't. Add to that the fact that one week in July with the part of the front court is not going to have a major impact on making the playoffs

Sory my friend, I think you are missing the point. Life always trumps basketball. And this big mans camp was not going to make the The Knicks a contending team. ANd by the way Malik also cut him some slack, ring and all.


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## nymoorestx (Jul 1, 2005)

One more thought:

Curry is only going to lead through his low post play, and he does that well. One of the youguns will eventually emerge as a true leader, by playing a total game and earning the right to get in a teammates ear. Marbury lead duing some parts of last season. Malik tried to lead at times. Lee may be the future leader.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

HKF said:


> Man, it's July. Training camp isn't till October. Is this really a big deal?


It's the offseason, people feel compelled to make mountains of **** out of sharts.


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