# AI To Denver



## Gtown07 (Dec 10, 2003)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2702501

AI 

FOR 

Joe Smith
Andre Miller
both 07' 1st rounders


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## ss03 (May 31, 2006)

Yep, just heard it on the radio on my way home

Pending league approval, but I mean, I don't see how they'd not approve it.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

You guys better hope you get lucky in the draft, or this goes down as a horible trade for Philly


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## ss03 (May 31, 2006)

mediocre man said:


> You guys better hope you get lucky in the draft, or this goes down as a horible trade for Philly


Given the situation, I think they came out atleast a little ok. I mean, Andre Miller is a good passing point guard so he'll be able to direct Iguodala, and maybe get Webber into a little more. Joe Smith's contract expires, and well, they're rebuilding so draft picks don't hurt.

I mean, after how King did things, I don't think anyone could have really expected a bigshot all-star or anything coming to Philidelphia. They have decent surrounding players, now they just need to hope this draft, or the one after can get them the starts they need. Otherwise, they'll have to make sure they have enough cap space when Webber's contract goes and sign one.

I mean, I would've preferred the Raptors getting this, over what they ended up with in the Carter trade.


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## Gtown07 (Dec 10, 2003)

this trade frustrated me but probably for different reasons than most. 

i wouldve definitley preferred an expiring contract over Andre Miller. He makes us at least semi-competitive because we now have a top 10 pg. If we don't get a top 3 pick I might just stay a Nuggets fan. lol.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

4 replies?!


If Miller plays well and helps develop Iguodala and your high pick next year, the trade will pay dividends.

But as we've seen in the last few years, getting $0.75 or $0.50 on the dollar is about as much as you can hope for when dealing a disgruntled star. It puts your team at such a bargaining disadvantage.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Congrats King, you got a better trade than Raps with Carter...!

Although I'd rather try to bring Foye from Minny, this isn't a bad trade. At all. Dre is a good PG, really. And Joe Smith will even take minutes with this team. He isn't bad... Good luck with your picks!


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## Auggie (Mar 7, 2004)

not bad.. 2 picks in a deep draft and a veteran PG


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## Serrated Shadow (Mar 30, 2006)

Auggie said:


> not bad.. 2 picks in a deep draft and a veteran PG


Not to mention you'll have a good shot at a high 1st rounder along with those 2 low picks..Espn's calling 07' to be the deepest draft in 10 years, so you guys could really benefit from that.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

I like this deal, you get 2 draft picks and a solid point guard who can distribute the ball to Iggy and company. Like ss stated I didn't expect you guys to get an All-Star of Iverson's caliber in return but you got a solid deal nevertheless. The draft will also be solid this year, this gives you guys a chance to rebuild this proud franchise. I'm not sure when Webber contract expires or how long is Miller's contract but hopefully you guys can sign a free agent that will make an immediate impact in the future. It's also still earlier in the season, and the way this division is shaped up, don't be surprise you still are able to sneak in the playoffs. Good luck with the picks and the rest of the season.


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## supermati (Mar 28, 2005)

Good, you got 2 1st round pick on a really deep draft, the team can shape up from there.


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## Gtown07 (Dec 10, 2003)

I'm hoping that the Nuggets give us the 32nd pick back....And I'm not a Mavs fan. 

Good luck to AI.


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## Your Answer (Jul 13, 2005)

Anyone knows who's picks they got, Philly definetly got a lot more then I expected them to get be4 all this trade talk started. Anyone think the brawl got them a lil more?


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## tempe85 (Jan 7, 2005)

Great trade for Philly... Iverson wasn't going to get this team anywhere and his contract was a mamoth that has kept the franchise from making improvements to the team through free agency. Remember when the Suns traded Marbury for cap space and draft picks? People said they were crazy but look how it worked out for them? AI is just a better version of Marbury... a shoot first PG who can't really lead a team and make his teammates better. Andre Miller will be better for this franchise in the long run. To boot they'll get two first rounders in a pretty deep draft.

Great trade... the proverbial 300 pound Gorilla known as "The Answer" has finally departed from the Sixers backs.


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## ss03 (May 31, 2006)

Serrated Shadow said:


> Not to mention you'll have a good shot at a high 1st rounder along with those 2 low picks..Espn's calling 07' to be the deepest draft in 10 years, so you guys could really benefit from that.


When all is said and done, I really don't think it'll top the 03 draft though.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Yo people.. Andre Miller is not a pass first point guard. This guy hogs the ball, and is a shoot first guy. Having him is a better option than starting Ollie though, I'm just not a fan of his.

Miller is a good player, but he's not so good that the team would suddenly go on a winning streak.

Also Ivan McFarlin was included in the trade as well, so his Sixers career was rather short and now it's over.

I'm hoping the next step is Snider selling the team, but I doubt it.

I'm not mad because finally the deal is done, and we can look forward to the possibility of landing Oden.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Gtown07 said:


> this trade frustrated me but probably for different reasons than most.
> 
> i wouldve definitley preferred an expiring contract over Andre Miller. He makes us at least semi-competitive because we now have a top 10 pg. If we don't get a top 3 pick I might just stay a Nuggets fan. lol.


You serious? I'm sure there are countless teams that will give you expiring deals for Andre Miller. Someone on the Laker board already proposed Mihm, McKie and Smush for Dre.


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## SirCharles34 (Nov 16, 2004)

can I get some props for predicting this trade?


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## DieSlow69 (Apr 18, 2005)

I like the deal. I just hope the draft is as good as everyone says it will be. I hope we lose every game and get lucky on the lotto ball. Hell we need some of good college guys some of yall were naming in the other thread!!!

And A.I. went to my brothers team Denver. SO while we are tanking this season at least I get to watch A.I compete. I'm looking forward to seeing how he meshes with Melo after his suspension


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Crap trade. Terrible. A solid PG and 2 low 1sts are nothing compared to Iverson.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Chan said:


> Crap trade. Terrible. A solid PG and 2 low 1sts are nothing compared to Iverson.


Sometimes I wonder what world people live in.

How often are star players (especially those in their 30s) traded for equal value?

I'm really shocked that people were expecting some out of this world return on this. I should be laughing right now, but I'm just confused.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Coatesvillain said:


> Sometimes I wonder what world people live in.
> 
> How often are star players (especially those in their 30s) traded for equal value?
> 
> I'm really shocked that people were expecting some out of this world return on this. I should be laughing right now, but I'm just confused.


Players are never traded for equal value, but a superstar is a superstar. King couldn't convince anyone into giving up a young, promising player for AI. Ellis, Livingston, Jefferson.. someone along the lines of that.


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## mjm1 (Aug 22, 2005)

Chan said:


> Players are never traded for equal value, but a superstar is a superstar. King couldn't convince anyone into giving up a young, promising player for AI. Ellis, Livingston, Jefferson.. someone along the lines of that.


you just proved coatsvillian's point, this was the best deal King could have HOPED for. Anyone thinking that they could have done significantly better is delusional.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Chan said:


> Players are never traded for equal value, but a superstar is a superstar. King couldn't convince anyone into giving up a young, promising player for AI. Ellis, Livingston, Jefferson.. someone along the lines of that.


If any of those guys were on the table, the deal would've been made. Even though I have no faith in Billy King, I know that is the case.

What he got in return was an expiring contract in Smith, two #1s, and a tradeable commodity in Andre Miller. Great trade? Not at all, but it's better than I would've expected considering the circumstances.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Chan said:


> Players are never traded for equal value, but a superstar is a superstar. King couldn't convince anyone into giving up a young, promising player for AI. Ellis, Livingston, Jefferson.. someone along the lines of that.


Jefferson isnt that promising to me, but I see where you are coming from


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## Gtown07 (Dec 10, 2003)

In response to getting a better deal. They couldve gotten a better deal if they had gotten an expiring contract instead of Andre Miller, which I think could've happened if they just waited on it. Miller will make us more competitive for no reason. We need to lose and get Oden, not win and wind up fighting for a crummy playoff spot each year. So I think we could've gotten a little better deal but what are you going to do, I'm still happy with it. It is very close to the perfect deal. 

The most frustrating thing about this whole things was the stupidity of Elgin Baylor and Dunleavy (completely unsurprising though). They were the perfect trade partner bc they allow AI to be a huge star in La and him and Brand wouldve been ideal partners. But some back up pg in his FOURTH year who still hasn't reached any of his so called potential got in the way. I can't wait to see AI KO the crap out of that team...hopefully in the playoffs.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

I think Andre Miller is good enough to help the team be competitive, but he's not going to knock us off of the worst team in the league pace.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

I like this trade alot for both parties. It keeps the Nuggets competitive without giving up their current youth or any other stipulations after this year. And for the sixers, you balance the team out some. Andre Miller is good for 15 ppg, plus he won't take away from the growth of the team. And in two years, enough time for them to mentor the draft picks coming in, Miller and Webber's contracts are off the books. They've gone from a team with no future to a team with a future in the works. Good job by King.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Chan said:


> Crap trade. Terrible. A solid PG and 2 low 1sts are nothing compared to Iverson.


You have to look at the bigger picture. I am sure if there were offers such as "Talented young player(s) + expiring contracts to match AI's contract", the Sixers would've taken it. But the likely scenario was "Talented young player(s) + some unfavorable contracts" for AI since the Sixers are in a hurry to trade AI. Had they done the trade last summer, perhaps they could've pulled it off but it is not the case right now. With Andre Miller and Joe Smith you get an expiring contract in Smith and potential trade bait in 07' with Andre Miller's expiring contract. Andre Miller meanwhile will take care of Sixer's PG position for these 2 years.

So after this trade, let's look at the Sixers' team outlook for the next 2 years. This is assuming that the Sixers tank the rest of this season, getting at least a top 5 draft pick next year.

2007
Sixers get one of the promising young players with their own lotto pick. With the Denver picks, the Sixers either combine the 2 picks and trade up or they pick 2 starter/role player in a deep draft. With Joe Smith's contract off the books, Sixers have trade assets in Chris Webber's expiring 22 mil, as well as Andre Miller's 9 mil in 08'.

2008

After another losing season, the Sixers once again get a high lottery pick in another decent draft class. Chris Webber, Aaron Mckie, Kevin Ollie's contracts have all ended, freeing up over 30 mil of cap room. 

The Sixers now have a core of Dalembert, (Oden/Durant/Wright + 2 late first round picks), Iguodala, Korver, (high 2008 draft pick). The Sixers have a team salary of around 45-50 mil including Andre miller's expiring contract. Add another significant FA signing or 2, the Sixers should be back on track in either 2008 or 2009.


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

to determine who is a pass first point guard. I like to look at shot attempts and assists.

Dre will give you 13 points and nine assist per game on a good team. Id say he will help AI2's game.

The point of trading Iverson (and hopefully Webber too) is to get your teeth kicked in this season. So you can feature a lineup of AI2 and either Durant or Oden next year.

I dont understand why you took back a player that will actually help the team win and take up cap space next season.

Those lower picks could get used on say a guy like Dominic James or Josh Heytvelt. And plenty of other guys that could come out and just get crowded down in this draft class. Plenty of diamonds and not a lot of rough coming out.

You cant go wrong with Durant

But getting the first pick and drafting Oden would be sweet. And then move up (trade your lower picks etc) to snag Daequan Cook in the lotto.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

The thing is, I really do think that King can get someone like those guys. AI wasn't going anywhere, and the Sixers had all the power and time in the world. Sweeten the deal for the other team, and a young player can be had. The Sixers were in power.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Chan said:


> The thing is, I really do think that King can get someone like those guys. AI wasn't going anywhere, and the Sixers had all the power and time in the world. Sweeten the deal for the other team, and a young player can be had. The Sixers were in power.


Sixers had no leverage, when Ed Snider made it known that Iverson demanded a trade and played his last game for the Sixers.. the Sixers had no ground to stand on.

They had time, but they also faced the possibility that Iverson would depreciate even further in trade value. They were at the mercy of the market.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Again, the only teams that were interested in AI were the "Win now" teams. Unless you are Isiah Thomas, you wouldn't want to have someone like AI on your team when your goal is to build a winning team down the road. With that in mind, the only possibility for your trade scenario to occur requires 2 things. 1. A playoff bound team that has an interest in AI. 2. A playoff bound team that have talented young players that they would let go off as well as expiring contracts to match AI's salary. If you put the 2 and 2 together, the chance is very slim. Philly in this case took the 1st choice instead of both.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

dbl post


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Chan said:


> The thing is, I really do think that King can get someone like those guys. AI wasn't going anywhere, and the Sixers had all the power and time in the world. Sweeten the deal for the other team, and a young player can be had. The Sixers were in power.



Minnesota wouldn't part with Foye.

LA wouldn't part with Livingston

Denver's deal breaker was JR Smith. They wouldn't have done it, if Philly insisted on him.

And I don't/didn't see the Sixers trading him to Boston, it's just a barely above level move, and they're in the same division. 

As they said, they also had no leverage after Snider spoke about it. They got the best they could, and can still trade Miller elsewhere.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

The Sixers didn't come out too bad here. Andre miller is a quality PG who will be a free agent in two years anyway, Joe Smith is expiring, and maybe Philly can get a steal with one of those two last-five-of-the-first-round picks. :biggrin:


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Coatesvillain said:


> Sixers had no leverage, when Ed Snider made it known that Iverson demanded a trade and played his last game for the Sixers.. the Sixers had no ground to stand on.
> 
> They had time, but they also faced the possibility that Iverson would depreciate even further in trade value. They were at the mercy of the market.


Then I would have waited until the deadline. If Philly can't use AI, then no one can use him.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

You wait that long and you won't even get the deal that they ended up with. They'd have even less leverage than they did when they traded him, because everyone would know they weren't going to let the deadline pass without moving him.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

This, to me, means that snider isn't selling the team. Otherwise, why make a move to that saves money and builds for the future. It's not a "get quick cash and go" move. Then again, he could just be trying to increase the value, so I've just talked myself into a circle.


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## SirCharles34 (Nov 16, 2004)

Chan said:


> Crap trade. Terrible. A solid PG and 2 low 1sts are nothing compared to Iverson.


I also agree with Coatesvillain. 

Plus, I don't think this deal gets done if it weren't for the brawl and the suspensions. 

2 low 1st Rd picks could be packaged with our #1 to move up in the draft. We will also save roughly $30 million dollars over the next 2yrs, which will allow us to sign free agents. 

So, not equal value of course, but at least we put ourselves in a good position to compete in the furture.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

SirCharles34 said:


> Plus, I don't think this deal gets done if it weren't for the brawl and the suspensions.


How so? Denver traded Andre Miller for AI.

Denver didn't give up any players or assets they didn't want to give up and the Sixers gave in and accepted a non-expiring contract. Denver had spent most of the last 5 days trying to find a 3rd team to the Sixers another expiring contract instead of Dre.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> How so? Denver traded Andre Miller for AI.
> 
> Denver didn't give up any players or assets they didn't want to give up and the Sixers gave in and accepted a non-expiring contract. Denver had spent most of the last 5 days trying to find a 3rd team to the Sixers another expiring contract instead of Dre.


But really, how much will they be different. They already had a scoring PG in Miller. In a year or two, Iverson won't be much better, and probably with worse injury problems. All this will really do is make them faster, and bring both Melo and AI's game some.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Philadelphia fans may ask Dallas fans how much they're happy with Jason Terry...

Ok ok, I know that was a different situation, but the same point is that they've lost a superstar PG in Nash (same for 76ers and AI) and replaced him with a good one in Terry (Dre Miller case).


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## SirCharles34 (Nov 16, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> How so? Denver traded Andre Miller for AI.
> 
> Denver didn't give up any players or assets they didn't want to give up and the Sixers gave in and accepted a non-expiring contract. Denver had spent most of the last 5 days trying to find a 3rd team to the Sixers another expiring contract instead of Dre.


Actually, Denver didn't want to give up Miller. The brawl and subsequent suspensions brought the trade for AI to the forefront. 

Denver had the 7th seed b4 the brawl and could've risked falling out of the pl'off race with the lengthy suspensions of melo and j.r. smith. This deal for a legitimate scorer had to be made from Denver's point of view.


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Zuca said:


> Philadelphia fans may ask Dallas fans how much they're happy with Jason Terry...
> 
> Ok ok, I know that was a different situation, but the same point is that they've lost a superstar PG in Nash (same for 76ers and AI) and replaced him with a good one in Terry (Dre Miller case).


Terry might be better, but Miller helps the young players develop better. I just don't like the idea of a superstar being given up to rebuild without netting a young potential player.


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## Cager (Jun 13, 2002)

I think you still need to see what you can get for Andre Miller. He is 30 and any team that needs a quality PG could be willing to over pay. For sure Miami should be interested and he had some quality years in Cleveland. I would be a little worried about Miller's mental state after years of being with a contender. He may not want to relive his losing years at Cleveland and LA. I think there are a number of teams that would be interested.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

hell I would see if we could get Varejo for him or Shannon Brown.


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## SirCharles34 (Nov 16, 2004)

BEEZ said:


> hell I would see if we could get Varejo for him or Shannon Brown.


co-sign.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Shannon Brown? Eww...


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