# Official Beasley v Rose Thread



## silverpaw1786

Who ya got?


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## Eternal

I'd go with Rose by far.

Hinrich I don't think is the PG of the future for you guys, especially the way he looked last season.


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## Smez86

Trade for a superstar.


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## TheDarkPrince

Eternal said:


> I'd go with Rose by far.
> 
> Hinrich I don't think is the PG of the future for you guys, especially the way he looked last season.


Agreed. Plus this years playoffs proves what a talented PG can do for a team (Paul, Williams).

However, Beasley at PF, and Noah at C, can sure up our front court for the next 5+years.


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## BetterDayz

F that. You don't pass on Beasley. You just DONT. Hinrich-Deng-Beasley-Gooden.....

Im excited!!!! Pre ordering the Beasley Jersey now!


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## T.Shock

I'll take Rose and then try and package Hinrich, Deng, and next year's #1 for Melo


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## SausageKingofChicago

Rose 

Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!!!!!


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## TheDarkPrince

Smez86 said:


> Trade for a superstar.


The question is who? Can't think of anyone willing to tade a superstar, who isn't in the top 5 of the draft themslves.


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## UD40

Well, it's going to be interesting, Bull fans!

Feel free to join this same discussion over at the Heat forum!


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## SausageKingofChicago

Smez86 said:


> Trade for a superstar.



Rose is the star we've been waiting for


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## Ruff Draft

Go with a leader, and a new face of the franchise. A hometown kid. Everyone knows how important your PG is.

Goodbye Hinrich!!!


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## jimmy

roseroseroseroseroseroseroseroseroseroseroseroseroseroserose


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## Vivaldi

Take Beasley!


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## SausageKingofChicago

Suck a long one Mike f'n D'Antoni !!!!!!!!!

What this team is going to be with Rose , Thomas , Noah , Deng and Sefolosha 

Kirk to fit the Nate McMillan 6th role 

Time to send Ben Gordon with Larry Hughes to New York for Malik Rose, Quentin Richardson and DAVID LEE...and deal on Q and Ced Simmons for Tony Battie and JJ Redick

Gooden and Nocioni for Michael Redd 

*

Noah 
Thomas
Deng
Redd
D.Rose

6th : Hinrich 

bench

Gray
Lee
Sefolosha
Redick
Duhon ( yes Duhon ..bring him back )

M.Rose ( expiring )

*


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## The Krakken

Its Rose by a landslide.

Question: What do the last 5 NBA champions have in common?

Answer: Outstanding Guard Play.

Question: When was the last time a UBER talented SF/PF (and he is a tweener), was the face of a championship team?

Answer: Larry Bird, 20 years ago.

Question: Is Beasley as Good as Lebron James?

Answer: Nope.

Question: Is Rose a top 5 PG in the east from the word go?

Answer: Yup.

This really isn't close.


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## B-Roy

You could always trade us Hinrich on the cheap. :wink:


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## Ruff Draft

SausageKingofChicago said:


> *
> 
> Noah
> Thomas
> Deng
> Redd
> D.Rose
> 
> 6th : Hinrich
> 
> bench
> 
> Gray
> Lee
> Sefolosha
> Redick
> Duhon ( yes Duhon ..bring him back )
> 
> M.Rose ( expiring )
> 
> *


:gopray:


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## The Krakken

B-Roy said:


> You could always trade us Hinrich on the cheap. :wink:


Hinrich for Aldridge maybe.


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## yodurk

THIS IS SO FRIGGIN AWESOME. 

Derrick Rose & Thabo Sefolosha make a perfect, bonafide NBA sized backcourt that can really do it all.

Keep ONE of either Hinrich or Gordon to be 6th man. Honestly, I wouldn't mind keeping Kirk at this point, as he makes solid PG insurance, can play both guard spots, plays defense, and hates the spotlight.

Guess the Ben Gordon era will end?


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## The Krakken

yodurk said:


> THIS IS SO FRIGGIN AWESOME.
> 
> Guess the Ben Gordon era will end?


Rose doesn't immediately replace Gordon's scoring. Keep Gordon. Ship Kirk out for a vet and try to pry a competent big man away in the process.


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## someone

Holy ****


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## Merk

Ok I'm not gonna lie I dont watch a lot of college ball so I have to go by the scouting reports

From what I've read why wouldnt we want Beasley?

He seems to have a very high ceiling and gets compared to KG. He also has good size and combined w/ Noah and Deng we could have a pretty good front court

Rose seems like a nice player too but our back court seems stuffed right now


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## someone

Best part is I don't think we could go wrong either way. Beasley or Rose. We'll see though...


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## yodurk

Merk said:


> Ok I'm not gonna lie I dont watch a lot of college ball so I have to go by the scouting reports
> 
> From what I've read why wouldnt we want Beasley?
> 
> He seems to have a very high ceiling and gets compared to KG. He also has good size and combined w/ Noah and Deng we could have a pretty good front court
> 
> Rose seems like a nice player too but our back court seems stuffed right now


A big part of it is today's NBA. You just really need a good PG these days running your team. Rose is about as natural of a PG as you'll find, with all the physical tools. There's not a single PG in the NBA who can physically out match him right now, w/ either speed or strength.

The main thing for me is, we actually have a guy who can have the ball in crunch time situations. Until now, I just didn't trust any of our current Bulls to make a big time play in crucial moments. Honestly, I'm not sure Beasley fills that need, whereas Rose absolutely does.


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## bball2223

This is easy, Rose in a landslide. He is a hometown kid, he is an elite talent, and he is a winner. IMO He is a Joe Montana like prospect (in terms of comparing the PG position to the QB position) in the fact he may not overwhelm you with stats but he will win games at a high-clip. Once his jumper develops he will be up there with CP3, and Williams as the best PG's in the NBA.


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## Piolo_Pascual

i love beasley please let it be paxson. LET IT BE!!!!:yay:


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## T.Shock

With the new rules, you need a guard that can penetrate and finish at the rim in addition to knocking down the open J. Rose is so much faster, bigger, and stronger than almost any NBA PG right now that he is extremely close to cant-miss. Plus, we can then try to swing a deal for Hinrich or Gordon and some other assets for another player giving us a foundation of: Rose, Hinrich or Gordon, Deng, All-Star acquired in trade, and Noah (assuming Tyrus goes in the trade as well). Ummm, yes!


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## Basel

I'd go with Rose, but you can't go wrong with either.


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## RageofDaBulls

YOU GO ROSE ALL DAY BABY!!!!!!!!then trade KH,Thabo + Filler for a mid to late 1st rd + Filler and take CDR.you can then hold BG hostage or S&T him for WTH EVER.

this team needs a face lift in the worse way,and if you go with MB all your doing is what Pax has been doing for years..

you don't take another PF when you have TWO VERY capable YOUNG PF's picked at #4 within the past 3-4 years that have shown they can play and have had flashes of greatness...


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## someone

bball2223 said:


> This is easy, Rose in a landslide. He is a hometown kid, he is an elite talent, and he is a winner. IMO He is a Joe Montana like prospect (in terms of comparing the PG position to the QB position) in the fact he may not overwhelm you with stats but he will win games at a high-clip. Once his jumper develops he will be up there with CP3, and Williams as the best PG's in the NBA.


YES! I LOVE YOU!


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## RageofDaBulls

ITS FATE!!!don't toy with it..

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TBLFmF5GweU


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## ballerkingn

It has to be rose in a sense.We don't have a true pg,and the players we have need that to be successful.We already got a decent post threat in gooden and gray,and hopefully tyrus and noah after a full off season.Plus none of them are players that can get there own shots.The only problem though is hopefully we can trade off the extra guards we are going to have.And not have to take back a bad contract.


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## GB

Merk said:


> Ok I'm not gonna lie I dont watch a lot of college ball so I have to go by the scouting reports
> 
> From what I've read why wouldnt we want Beasley?
> 
> He seems to have a very high ceiling and gets compared to KG. He also has good size and combined w/ Noah and Deng we could have a pretty good front court


Think Derrick Coleman.


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## The Krakken

GB said:


> Think Derrick Coleman.


Agreed.

Unless you think Beasley's going to be better than LBJ, its Rose, easily.

LBJ is a matchup that we are going to always lose. We need to win some matchups, and Rose is instantly a top 5 PG in the east, and top 8-9 in the league. Day 1.


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## GB

The Krakken said:


> LBJ is a matchup that we are going to always lose. We need to win some matchups, and Rose is instantly a top 5 PG in the east, and top 8-9 in the league. Day 1.


Great point. 

I just thought of another too...


http://www.basketballforum.com/chic...ind-player-other-players-would-want-play.html


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## ballerkingn

Oh and doesn't rose wear number 23.


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## Bulldozer

B-Roy said:


> You could always trade us Hinrich on the cheap. :wink:


Sure bud...for #13, LaFrentz and maybe Jack. Hopefully, we get Kevin Love with that pick :clap:


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## The Krakken

GB said:


> Think Derrick Coleman.


Or Glen Robinson.


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## King Sancho Fantastic

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Congrats on the number 1 pick Bulls fans!


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## The Krakken

GB said:


> Great point.
> 
> I just thought of another too...
> 
> 
> http://www.basketballforum.com/chic...ind-player-other-players-would-want-play.html


Yup.


ballerkingn said:


> Oh and doesn't rose wear number 23.


He wore #25 in HS.


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## AlThornton

You have to go with Rose.

DRose has Jordan like finishing ability, and on court demeanor.


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## yodurk

Honestly, the case for choosing Derrick Rose couldn't be much simpler. The Bulls already have some very good individual parts (e.g. Deng, Noah, Gordon, Hinrich, Thabo, Tyrus, Gooden), but we don't have ANYBODY who will tie the parts together and make us a cohesive team. Derrick Rose is the one guy in the draft who can accomplish this marvelously. 

There's no doubt that Beasley is the better scorer, but Beasley's court vision, passing, and ability to make teammates better has been questioned (also, see his very poor assist/turnover ratio). We MUST draft Rose to get maximum ROI (return on investment) for our other young players. They will all improve just by feeding off our star PG.


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## BullsBaller

Hmmm... Michael "The Beasty Bull" Beasley 2008. It has a catchy name to it. However, looking at the strides the Jazz and Hornets have made over the last two seasons causes me to realize that the PG is the most important position in basketball. After being a long time Hinrich supporter, I realize that he is not the PG answer for this team. Hinrich’s weaknesses really showed this season and they played a large part as to why the Bulls weren’t successful. His game seems to be plateauing. Hinrich does not have a great upside compared to many of his Bulls teammates. This is hard for me to say, but Hinrich is the problem and the solution to the problem is Derrick Rose. The Bulls only had a 1.7% chance of getting the top pick and they got it! It is only fitting, some may say destiny, that the Bulls draft the kid born and raised in Chi-town. 

Beasley would be a great selection as well and we would no doubt be better with him on the team. However, what separates greatness from being a good player isn’t stats, which Beasley can put up, it is the ability to step up when the time counts. Beasley didn’t show this ability to me in the NCAA tournament. Rose proved he could do this and brought his team all the way to the National Championship. Yes, you might argue that Beasley didn’t have as good of teammates compared to Rose and that was the reason. To that argument, I would say that Stephen Curry didn’t have as good of teammates as Beasley and he still beat Wisconsin. Special players rise to the occasion. Personally, I believe Michael Beasley didn’t step up not because he couldn’t, but because he was playing it safe. Being the all time leading freshman in double doubles pretty much automatically puts you in the top 2 spots in the draft. Right? I want a player who wants to win at all cost regardless of maybe risking injury. That is a true competitor i.e. Michael Jordan, Isaiah Thomas, etc… 

I sure hope Pax makes the correct decision this time and I for sure hope he does not trade the pick for a current superstar. Rose will ensure our future success for years to come. Goodbye Ben Gordon, Kirk Hinrich, and other assets and say hello to the post scoring we need. Hinrich would be a good 6th man and great backup pg, but he is being paid a starters salary. That will make it hard for management to get the starters to sign to anything close to that when they go up for new contracts in the next couple years, but that’s my opinion. 












*Michael "The Beasty Bull" Beasley is a 2008 copyright of BullsBaller


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## yodurk

I agree that Hinrich is paid a starter's salary, but I still think he could be an excellent 6th man so long as he doesn't let it shatter his confidence. Hinrich's versatility as a combo-guard who can do a little of everything (ballhandle, defend, decent shooting) seems a bit more valuable than Gordon's 18-20 ppg. Then again, Rose takes alot of pressure off Gordon and I could see a nasty drive-and-dish game going on there, where Gordon gets some easy open 3's. Hmm, decisions decisions. I just doubt we can keep both...


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## DaBabyBullz

Rose all the way. If they utilize his skills correctly, he would enhance the production of the rest of the team, especially Tyrus, and make everything much better. Beasley would be ok too, but where do you put him? Do you give up on the guy with the most potential at PF (Tyrus), or let Deng walk and play Beasley at SF? I don't like replacing Kirk, but I think that Kirk would be a great 6th man since he could play the 1 and 2. S&T Ben & Deng for Josh Smith if the Hawks can't resign him.

Starters:
Rose
Sefolosha
Smith
Thomas
Noah

2nd string:
Hinrich
Hughes
Nocioni
Gooden
Gray


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## lgtwins

Rose all the way.

Before the draft, I thought that we have three position locked in for the future (even with harsh criticism on TT). 3,4 and 5 in Deng, TT and Noah.

We just landed our 1 for years to come which makes us solid on 1,3,4 and 5 and will be the youngest team on the NBA. Fantastic.

Of Kirk and Bem, I'd keep Ben and trade Kirk. I still like the idea of Ben off the bench scoring and plus the return for Kirk would be better in a trade.


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## darlets

I think Gordon is the odd man out. Like a few people have suggested you make Kirk the sixth man.
A back court trio of Gordon/Thabo/Rose puts a lot of ball handling pressure on Rose and he'll have to guard the Shooting guard sometime. 

With Kirk/Thabo/Rose, you're always going to have one Rose or Kirk on the court to run the team. Also they give you a lot of defensive flexibility, where with gordon, he really has to guard the other teams point guard.

I do honestly think Gordon sees himself as a starter.


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## Bulls_Bulls_Bulls!

Rose, baby!!! Whew! It's exciting to be a Bulls fan again after a crappy year!


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## ztect

Pick Rose, 
trade Hinrich or Gordon/TThomas/Next yr's first or Deng 
to Miami for 2nd pick/salary filler 
and select Beasley

Bulls need to consolidate assets to pick up top prospects

Finally the Bulls will have a high draft pick that will actually be a star player


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## DaBabyBullz

I was hoping at the end of the year we'd miss the playoffs just for this reason! I'm sure in a few threads you could find me wishing for us to lose games so we'd have a shot at a worthwhile player, rather than limping into the playoffs, getting knocked out of the 1st, and having a late draft pick. We had to put up with a CRAP season, so at least this is a great reward. Damn near as good as winning a championship (since it should help us win some in the future) and definitely better than making the playoffs and losing at any point, even the conference finals!


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## Sir Patchwork

I think Rose is the choice.


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## DaBabyBullz

ztect said:


> Pick Rose,
> trade Hinrich or Gordon/TThomas/Next yr's first or Deng
> to Miami for 2nd pick/salary filler
> and select Beasley
> 
> Bulls need to consolidate assets to pick up top prospects
> 
> Finally the Bulls will have a high draft pick that will actually be a star player


That's pretty damn funny lol. I really wouldn't mind that too much though, if we kept Thomas and got rid of Deng and Gordon for the #2.

Rose
Sefolosha
Beasley
Thomas
Noah

Not a bad looking lineup at all!


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## thebizkit69u

Lets just go with some Pros and Cons.

Rose - Pros, work ethic will not be questioned this kid is a fierce competitor who not only plays very hard but is freakishly composed for a kid his age. High end athlete, a physically specimen at his position, inside outside game, strong finisher, pass first player who gets EVERYONE involved, Ran a pro offense,plays great defense has shown the ability to take over a game even when the stakes are high. His size is the only thing that keeps the Jordan comparisons away. 

Cons- High dribble, not the best of ball handlers but much better than anyone on the Bulls and good enough for the NBA, unselfish to a fault at times, will need to work with a nutritionist, doesn't do his best to avoid contact which could hurt him in the NBA.

Beasley - Pros, an absolute BEAST on offense, great rebounder, great inside game, big time talent with all the tools to be a consistent 20+ ppg scorer in the NBA from the get go. Great hands, great offensive instincts and just keeps going and going and going on offense.

Cons- Basketball IQ questioned, not as good on defense as he is on offense, at times looks like he doesn't care if his team loses or wins as long as he gets his stats, did not rely much on his teammate could have been a much better team if Bill Walker and Beasley had any kind of chemistry together. Questionable attitude and work ethic, DOES HE WANT IT BAD ENOUGH in the next level?


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## Sir Patchwork

Paxson needs to condense. Draft Rose and turn 2 or 3 of our good players into 1 great one. If Carmelo is on the table, go get him. He would give us everything Beasley would.


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## GB

Who would get Beasley the ball?


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## JPTurbo

If Paxson takes Beasley over Rose I don't think I could be a Bulls fan anymore. I'm still not entirely over the drafting of Tyrus over Aldridge but Rose is that one guy to come along that could actually make Tyrus the better pick. 

Not that it would be the only reason to take Rose. If you think about it this team is already built around Rose. Deng's jumper, Tyrus's leaping ability, even Noah knows how to put it in when he receives a good pass. 

Beasley is a talented guy but Rose has the potential to be the best player at his position. He takes us right back to our expectations before this last season and pushes us even further. Rose a 1000 times out a 1000.


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## O2K

unless the bulls get carmello, i would go with beasley. You go big over small


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## GB

O2K said:


> unless the bulls get carmello, i would go with beasley. You go big over small


Thats what the rest of the league wants us to think.


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## Hustle

I quit posting here almost a year ago, and never got into posting anywhere else but I must vent this is SICK SICK SICK! IT'S SO SICK i HATE WHEN PEOPLE GO ALL CAPS LOCK AND I'M GONNA DO IT ANYWAYS. 
:dancingpadlock:

It's sicker than a campsite next to a portopoty at a Phish concert campsite.

Unlike other drafts I realistically had no hope at all for the Bulls to win it, holy crap!

What an awfully great predicament. I believe Rose will be at worst the 3rd best point guard in the league in a couple years and I think likely the best, even after watching Paul in these playoffs. But Beasley is the incredible post presence we've been pining for forever ever, and he can play d and shoot and run the floor. My head is about to expode in joy. 

Think this means the end for Hinrich or Thomas along with a couple other guys, and that's ok. Really tough decisions ahead for Paxson, like should he trade it for the second pick? 

It's almost hard to justify passing on a guaranteed allstar big man with all world potential, but I'm going with who I consider the safe pick Derrick "warm my heart" Rose. He will make the whole team better. Gordon will be more open, Deng will get tons more easy buckets, Noah will learn how to go for an alley oop and he will make Tyrus's damn career. 

After watching what Paul has done with Chandler, Rose is the clear choice. Not only will he completly and utterly dominate his position in a superstar fashion that the Bulls have sorely needed, but he will turn our digustingly underacheiving former pick number 2 into something good.

Stay in school for at least one year, say NO to motorcycles.

Best vent ever!

Good to see some old fake names still around, take care all. Get down!
:smoothcriminal:


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## Sir Patchwork

Beasley isn't the type of big you take over small. That's Duncan big. Shaq big. Oden big. 

Beasley is big...for a small forward. He is not that big otherwise. He is special because of his perimeter skills for a guy his size, but based strictly on his ability on the block, guys like Brand and Amare would eat his lunch. 

I don't believe in taking "big" guys because of their perimeter skills. Give me a lightning quick athlete like Rose with perimeter skills instead. I'd rather have quickness and speed with perimeter skills than strength, especially since Rose is more than strong enough to take contact and still finish.


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## GB

Hustle said:


> say NO to motorcycles.


thumbs up


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## BullsBaller

> unless the bulls get carmello, i would go with beasley. You go big over small


Thats the same rational that caused Joe Dumars to draft Milicic over Anthony, Wade, and Bosh.


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## DaBabyBullz

Hustle said:


> After watching what Paul has done with Chandler, Rose is the clear choice.


That's what I'm hoping for. Hopefully Pax sees the folley of his ways in trading Chandler, and hopes that Rose can make Tyrus look as good as Paul has made Tyson look. Just imagine if we still had Tyson AND Tyrus though. I'm sorry, but Tyson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lucy. Tyson and Tyrus would give us some great shot blocking, putbacks and rebounds, and Tyson actually plays like he's 7'+, unlike Lucy that plays like he's only 6'7" or so.


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## DaBabyBullz

BullsBaller said:


> Thats the same rational that caused Joe Dumars to draft Milicic over Anthony, Wade, and Bosh.


And also old what's his name over Air Jordan! Best player = Best player. Big doesn't = better player. Small doesn't = lesser player.


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## King Joseus

Derrick Rose. It's destiny!


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## The ROY

O2K said:


> unless the bulls get carmello, i would go with beasley. You go big over small


Beasley's not a big @ all....

He's actually rather small and was as PF in college....


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## thebizkit69u

I just dont want the Bulls to turn Rose into a SG, sure he can do it but lets not screw around with a special talent at his possition.


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## Deke

why the hell does everyone want ROSE? HOW LONG HAVE WE NEEDED A DOMINANT SCORING BIG MAN?

we already have kirk hinrich who is an above average pg and an all-defensive nba player. plus he passes well. he had a down year but its not like he cant come back!


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## The ROY

Deke said:


> why the hell does everyone want ROSE? HOW LONG HAVE WE NEEDED A DOMINANT SCORING BIG MAN?
> 
> we already have kirk hinrich who is an above average pg and an all-defensive nba player. plus he passes well. he had a down year but its not like he cant come back!


Beasley's no bigman.....he is a great scorer though but he's not exactly Tim Duncan or Shaq now...

Rose has all the tools to be a superstar pg and hof'er...you don't pass that up, especially not in today's nba...no way


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## thebizkit69u

Deke said:


> why the hell does everyone want ROSE? HOW LONG HAVE WE NEEDED A DOMINANT SCORING BIG MAN?
> 
> we already have kirk hinrich who is an above average pg and an all-defensive nba player. plus he passes well. he had a down year but its not like he cant come back!


I agree with The ROY, Beasley is not a big, hes going to be a great SF but to be honest I think there will be another big time scoring SF/PF guy comming out of college in the next few years, i dont think we will see another PG prospect like Rose for a LOOOONG time. 

We can allways go after Blake Griffin next year.


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## Deke

thebizkit69u said:


> I agree with The ROY, Beasley is not a big, hes going to be a great SF but to be honest I think there will be another big time scoring SF/PF guy comming out of college in the next few years, i dont think we will see another PG prospect like Rose for a LOOOONG time.
> 
> We can allways go after Blake Griffin next year.


michael beasley is ****ing 6-10. hes gonna be a rich mans lamar odom. how the hell can we not take a score first pf we we've DESPERATELY needed one all year? we ****ing blow on offense. you want to get rid of our best defender to add a guy who cant even score 15 ppg in COLLEGE?

god i hope paxson doesnt think like yall. beasley was GIFT WRAPPED for us. hes the exact player we've been needing.


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## Deke

we ALREADY have KIRK HINRICH!!!!!!!!!

there is no need for rose. what did we say all year? we need an inside scorer. well here comes beasley and you guys want a guy who will play backup and be stuffed behind gordon-duhon- and hinrich meanwhile beasley is off being a future 25 ppg scorer we just passed on


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## Sir Patchwork

You're a little loopy if you think Rose would play behind any of our guards. Beasley would play behind Deng before that.


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## Deke

Sir Patchwork said:


> You're a little loopy if you think Rose would play behind any of our guards. Beasley would play behind Deng before that.


so you want to move hinrich to the bench? have NO perimeter defense. make gordon play the kobes of the nba. and STILL have a ****ty offense?

..........

seriously bulls fan what the hell are you thinking?

beasley is 610 and growing. of course hell be a pf. hell he might be 7 foot before he reaches his full height!

how the hell can we not take beasley? all year its been no one is scoring in the paint so are team has no consistency. now we wanna draft a pg to replace what is our strongest position in talent/depth and we still dont have any bigs who can score?


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## knickstorm

as we see in the playoffs you need the playmaker PG.......anthony is out, nowitzki is gone, unless your PF also plays tough D, the scorer pf that gives you 20-10 is a great plus but not as valuable as the playmaker PG.......beasely and deng would co exist as well as randolph and curry


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## thebizkit69u

Deke said:


> michael beasley is ****ing 6-10. hes gonna be a rich mans lamar odom. how the hell can we not take a score first pf we we've DESPERATELY needed one all year? we ****ing blow on offense. you want to get rid of our best defender to add a guy who cant even score 15 ppg in COLLEGE?
> 
> god i hope paxson doesnt think like yall. beasley was GIFT WRAPPED for us. hes the exact player we've been needing.


You cant go wrong with either pick. 



> we ALREADY have KIRK HINRICH!!!!!!!!!


Rose is light years better but Beasley is light years better than Noah lol..

I want to argue with you but I'm just happy with either choice.


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## Deke

knickstorm said:


> as we see in the playoffs you need the playmaker PG.......anthony is out, nowitzki is gone, unless your PF also plays tough D, the scorer pf that gives you 20-10 is a great plus but not as valuable as the playmaker PG.......beasely and deng would co exist as well as randolph and curry


name me a team that has made the finals of late without great big men PLEASE.

Kirk Hinrich is a GREAT passer. he had a downyear and still got 6 apg. 7 apg is more then what we need.

we need offense not ANOTHER PG. we have

Hinrich
Duhon
Gordon
now?
Rose.

what the hell are we supposed to do with all those pgs? miss the playoffs again?


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## The ROY

Deke said:


> name me a team that has made the finals of late without great big men PLEASE.
> 
> Kirk Hinrich is a GREAT passer. he had a downyear and still got 6 apg. 7 apg is more then what we need.
> 
> we need offense not ANOTHER PG. we have


man....you're credibility JUST went out the window

A Pg of Rose's caliber CREATES offense and lots of it.

Hinrich isn't even a 'good' passer, let alone a great one...nor is he a PG...

Beasley is closer to 6"7 than he is to 6"10 bud


----------



## King Joseus

Deke said:


> name me a team that has made the finals of late without great big men PLEASE.
> 
> Kirk Hinrich is a GREAT passer. he had a downyear and still got 6 apg. 7 apg is more then what we need.
> 
> we need offense not ANOTHER PG. we have
> 
> Hinrich
> Duhon
> Gordon
> now?
> Rose.
> 
> what the hell are we supposed to do with all those pgs? miss the playoffs again?


Duhon's FA, and not coming back unless we ship out both Hinrich and Gordon. It's likely that one of those two goes and one stays.

Gooden/Noah/Tyrus is a workable big man rotation, and with Rose feeding Deng our offense should be gravy.


----------



## Deke

The ROY said:


> man....you're credibility JUST went out the window
> 
> A Pg of Rose's caliber CREATES offense and lots of it.
> 
> Hinrich isn't even a 'good' passer, let alone a great one...nor is he a PG...
> 
> Beasley is closer to 6"7 than he is to 6"10 bud


what the hell are you talking bout? on espn it says beasley is 6-10.

and yeah rose might be better then hinrich. he might get 10 apg but we need a scoring big man. hinrich is a great player. he is streaky but he can pass great at times, he plays probably the best defense of any pg in the nba, and hes the team leader. plus he can defend the opposing teams sgs so that makes him versatile.

meanwhile we can NEVER play rose and gordon at the same time. or we will be probably the worst defensive backcourt of alltime.

we NEED a 25 ppg scorer.

we have a good pg. its like drafting magic johnson when you have john stockton already.


----------



## lgtwins

Deke...

Rose will be >>>>>>> Kirk from his first NBA game on. Kirk era of this Bulls should end here. Kirk won't get us anywhere near Championship. Rose will. You just don't pass up that kind of talent simply because you already have an averge NBA PG as in Kirk. Period.

WE are one roster away from solid 5 with Rose at PG. 

Rose, a SG, Deng, TT and Noah.

That is one terrific young NBA team in my book.


----------



## Deke

King Joseus said:


> Duhon's FA, and not coming back unless we ship out both Hinrich and Gordon. It's likely that one of those two goes and one stays.
> 
> Gooden/Noah/Tyrus is a workable big man rotation, and with Rose feeding Deng our offense should be gravy.


if its a workable big man rotation then how come our inside scoring SUCKED and we missed the playoffs? 

and the fact we have had trouble in the playoffs because of no consistent inside threats?

our bigs just aint cutting it. if you dont believe me, LOOK AT OUR RECORD!


----------



## Deke

lgtwins said:


> Deke...
> 
> Rose will be >>>>>>> Kirk from his first NBA game on. Kirk era of this Bulls should end here. Kirk won't get us anywhere near Championship. Rose will. You just don't pass up that kind of talent simply because you already have an averge NBA PG as in Kirk. Period.
> 
> WE are one roster away from solid 5 with Rose at PG.
> 
> Rose, a SG, Deng, TT and Noah.
> 
> That is one terrific young NBA team in my book.


Except that leaves us WITH NO SCORING AT ALL. and rose is not even on the same planet as kirk defensively.

we will not win a championship without a strong inside scorer. gooden will NEVER be the main inside force of a championship team EVER!


----------



## Deke

you guys are so wrong. im telling you if we take rose over beasley it will be a worse mistake then trading aldridge. it will end any hopes of us ever winning a championship with the team constructed the way it is now.

im not saying rose wont be good. he might be a top 5 pg in the nba, but we have NO scoring options in the inside. you dont win in the NBA without a big man.

Deron Has boozer and Okur
Paul Has West and Tyson
Parker has KG and Thomas
Nash has Amare and Shaq
Billups has mcydess,rasheed,and maxiell

we have drew gooden,and a 5 ppg scorer in tyrus thomas.


----------



## thebizkit69u

> hinrich is a great player.


-10 damage to street cred. 



> we NEED a 25 ppg scorer.


Beasley is not going to average 25 ppg from the get go. Who's to say that Rose isnt going to average 20+ ppg, Rose can do it all. I have seen him take over games from HS to college.


----------



## darlets

As a few people have suggested, if we draft Rose, we'll be packaging up one of our guards and a piece for a solid player in return.

There would be too many guards on the team.

Rose/Kirk
Kirk/Thabo

with Thabo getting some minutes at small forward too would be enough. Plus one vet guard for depth.

One of Gordon, Hughes will be gone. I would guess you'd have to add either Noc or TT as well in the deal.

If Atlanta can't comes to terms with Josh Smith, maybe Gordon, TT and next years pick in a sign and trade becomes attractive. Though I suspect they'll give him the cash.


----------



## Smez86

The problem is, if Rose is drafted, that means Hinrich must be traded. You cannot pay a backup PG that kind of money. Who do you trade him for?


----------



## thebizkit69u

> and rose is not even on the same planet as kirk defensively


Ok, sorry now its time for you to go.

Hinrich was allways an overrated defender and last year he was crap! 

Rose is a superb defender who can shut down good PG's and keep great PG's and SG's from going nuts on the Bulls. I have never seen Hinrich "Shut down" anyone.


----------



## King Joseus

Smez86 said:


> The problem is, if Rose is drafted, that means Hinrich must be traded. You cannot pay a backup PG that kind of money. Who do you trade him for?


It's possible to keep Hinrich if he's the second banana of a Rose/Kirk/Thabo trio. The deciding factor on who'll be kept is gonna be what we can get for Hinrich vs. what we can get for Gordon.


----------



## Smez86

Deke said:


> you guys are so wrong. im telling you if we take rose over beasley it will be a worse mistake then trading aldridge. it will end any hopes of us ever winning a championship with the team constructed the way it is now.
> 
> im not saying rose wont be good. he might be a top 5 pg in the nba, but we have NO scoring options in the inside. you dont win in the NBA without a big man.
> 
> Deron Has boozer and Okur
> Paul Has West and Tyson
> Parker has KG and Thomas
> Nash has Amare and Shaq
> Billups has mcydess,rasheed,and maxiell
> 
> we have drew gooden,and a 5 ppg scorer in tyrus thomas.


Tyson is definitely not good offensively. He can't do much besides finish alley-oops off double teams created by a good PG.

Parker has KG? Huh? And Thomas who? Kurt Thomas? hahah
Shaq is over the hill, McDyess is barely Horace Grant, and Maxiell is a defensive player.


----------



## lgtwins

thebizkit69u said:


> Ok, sorry now its time for you to go.
> 
> <b>Hinrich was allways an overrated defender and last year he was crap! </b>
> 
> Rose is a superb defender who can shut down good PG's and keep great PG's and SG's from going nuts on the Bulls. <b>I have never seen Hinrich "Shut down" anyone.</b>


So True! So True!


----------



## thebizkit69u

Smez86 said:


> The problem is, if Rose is drafted, that means Hinrich must be traded. You cannot pay a backup PG that kind of money. Who do you trade him for?


Well I think thats a good problem, say we draft Beasley one or both of Noah and Thomas will need to be traded. Noah and Thomas IMO have far less trade value than say Kirk Hinrich, meaning we would be sending cheeper contracts out for less talent in return, trading Hinrich helps us financially.


----------



## Smez86

I don't see why TT or Noah would need to be traded.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

From NBAdraft.net:



> His mentality is to score no matter how many people are guarding him, countless times, he would find himself facing a double or even triple team, yet he would still opt to shoot instead of finding an open teammate. Something that can be at least partially attributed to a lack of quality teammates … Averaged a measly 1.2 assists per game, which may not only be a testament to his scoring mentality, but also to his marginal vision … His decision making is also suspect at times, he gets into trouble by trying to do too much, then attempts to throw difficult passes.


Worrysome, in my opinion. Scorers who can't deal with double teams typically don't take their teams anywhere. 

Rose, on the other hand, *can* score very well. He can get into the lane at will, and is really good at finishing around the rim. Very athletic. He can take a hit, he has that strength. 

The good thing about Rose as a scorer, is you know he can pass and beat double teams. He is also a very gifted passer.


----------



## DengNabbit

People who are saying keep Hinrich - exact same argument can be made for Gooden. Dont take Beasley, because you can take a PG that will help get Gooden the ball where he needs it to score.

And those who say we'd be bad defensively with Gordon/Rose.... also that argument can be reversed. Beasley's biggest flaw is considered his defense. And again, who do you pair him with down low? Another 6'10" non widebody guy AT BEST.


In today's NBA, i'd much rather try and get away with a small backcourt than a small frontcourt.


Also, lets not try too much best fit stuff. This draftee could be here 10 years, outlasting any of the current roster concerns.


----------



## The ROY

Deke said:


> what the hell are you talking bout? on espn it says beasley is 6-10.
> 
> and yeah rose might be better then hinrich. he might get 10 apg but we need a scoring big man. hinrich is a great player. he is streaky but he can pass great at times, he plays probably the best defense of any pg in the nba, and hes the team leader. plus he can defend the opposing teams sgs so that makes him versatile.
> 
> meanwhile we can NEVER play rose and gordon at the same time. or we will be probably the worst defensive backcourt of alltime.
> 
> we NEED a 25 ppg scorer.
> 
> we have a good pg. its like drafting magic johnson when you have john stockton already.



There's NO way Beasley is 6"10...let's wait til those official measurements come out but i wouldn't be surprised if he was 6"7 with his shoes off....

The dude looks small and he's a SF/PF....no thanks

Get a game changer


----------



## Deke

DengNabbit said:


> People who are saying keep Hinrich - exact same argument can be made for Gooden. Dont take Beasley, because you can take a PG that will help get Gooden the ball where he needs it to score.
> 
> And those who say we'd be bad defensively with Gordon/Rose.... also that argument can be reversed. Beasley's biggest flaw is considered his defense. And again, who do you pair him with down low? Another 6'10" guy AT BEST.
> 
> 
> In today's NBA, i'd much rather try and get away with a small backcourt than a small frontcourt.
> 
> 
> Also, lets not try too much best fit stuff. This draftee could be here 10 years, outlasting any of the current roster concerns.


beasley is not small. hes 6-10 and still growing. he could become one of the tallest pfs in the nba.

plus hes strong, he can bang down low. hes got refined scoring moves. he can give us 15+ ppg as a rookie.

I doubt rose averages more then 8/5 as a rookie.

and hinrich is still a great perimeter defender. one downyear doesnt change that.

Hinrich can be the starting pg of a championship team.
if you want gooden to be your best inside scorer, YOUR IN TROUBLE!


----------



## Deke

The ROY said:


> There's NO way Beasley is 6"10...let's wait til those official measurements come out but i wouldn't be surprised if he was 6"7 with his shoes off....
> 
> The dude looks small and he's a SF/PF....no thanks
> 
> Get a game changer


a dominant inside scorer isnt a game changer? everyone has said beasley has the body to play pf. hell if KGs skinny *** can do it i know beasley can.


----------



## lgtwins

Deke said:


> beasley is not small. hes 6-10 and still growing. he could become one of the tallest pfs in the nba.
> 
> plus hes strong, he can bang down low. hes got refined scoring moves. he can give us 15+ ppg as a rookie.
> 
> <b>I doubt rose averages more then 8/5 as a rookie.</b>
> 
> and hinrich is still a great perimeter defender. one downyear doesnt change that.
> 
> Hinrich can be the starting pg of a championship team.
> if you want gooden to be your best inside scorer, YOUR IN TROUBLE!


Assuming that you said the bold part in the scenario where Rose starts instead of Kirk for the Bulls, your credibility fell another degree just like that. We are seeing the second coming of Paul or D Williams. Easily. Kirk is nowhere near both of them.


----------



## DengNabbit

Deke said:


> beasley is not small. hes 6-10 and still growing. he could become one of the tallest pfs in the nba.
> 
> plus hes strong, he can bang down low. hes got refined scoring moves. he can give us 15+ ppg as a rookie.
> 
> I doubt rose averages more then 8/5 as a rookie.
> 
> and hinrich is still a great perimeter defender. one downyear doesnt change that.
> 
> Hinrich can be the starting pg of a championship team.
> if you want gooden to be your best inside scorer, YOUR IN TROUBLE!


we can go round and round like this.

what we find out this time of year is that it means less to say "I have the best low post scorer" and means more to say "I have a dominating system." That way you can kill teams many different ways. You dont have to pray that your #1 option doesnt have an off night (in a playoff game).

Rose changes the system. Beasley doesnt.



It's just like if we added Gasol; that wasnt going to fix other glaring errors w/ our offense. We still wouldve been mediocre in the closing posession. We still wouldve moved the ball around crappily.


----------



## thebizkit69u

I aim to end any Kirk Hinrich love with the following videos.

Can Kirk Do this?
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/pLsaXkMs9XE&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/pLsaXkMs9XE&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LFv3vecD4Js&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LFv3vecD4Js&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Look at minute 1:08 he has such an explosive first step just LOOK at the speed.
Minute 1:29, look at his body control and strength.
Minute 2:00, Sorry but KIRK Cannot DO THAT!!!
Minute 5:34, lol Not freakin FAIR! Too Big, Too Fast. 
Or this?


----------



## Dornado

Take Rose, make Kirk Hinrich the 6th man. Hinrich can play either position... and despite what some say, does play solid defense - makes him an ideal sub.


----------



## NewAgeBaller

um.. well that was unexpected.. :laugh:

Ah well, I'd rather the #1 pick but we're not too fussed over the #2. Good luck to you guys and maybe we can both climb back atop the East soon! :cheers:

Oh and congrats to leikomdgojkgm for sticking through a hard season. Man you must have had like a thousand posts in game threads alone this season..


----------



## Deke

you guys act as if rose is going to miraculously give tyrus thomas some low post moves. people give too much credit for pgs improving the offense. does it help? yes. but a great pg doesnt turn a 5 ppg scorer into great inside scorer we lack.

the thing is i think both will be allstars by their sophomore year. but we have a solid pg. we have a HORRIBLE frontcourt. id say top 5 worst frontcourts in the nba. then beasley falls to us. take him.

people overestimate the values of a pg. There has been ALOT more teams with the centerpice being the frontcourt to win a ring then there has been with allstar pgs.


----------



## Deke

the only way i wouldnt mind taking rose is if we trade hinrich-duhon for some kind of real big man. maybe jermaine oneal?


----------



## Salvaged Ship

Even though Skiles is gone, the Bulls have a reputation and track record of drafting power forwards and turning them into flops. We seem to draft power forwards with our top pick most years, and that goes back to the Krause era. We need someone who is exciting, brings energy, gets the crowd into it. Bulls currently are so boring it brings you to tears. Drafting yet another pf, escpecially with the track record the Bulls have of not developing big men, is a mistake.

Drat Rose, and start him from the first game. I would worry we are going to hear that earn your minutes and develop the player slow nonsense, and either player drafted will get few minutes. Time to draft the exciting player and play him.

D'Antoni would have been a great fit with us getting Rose. I don't want a young, inexperienced coach. The only coach out there now I like is Avery Johnson. The other veteran coaches and young assistant's out there do not impress me at all....


----------



## Deke

The Krakken said:


> Its Rose by a landslide.
> 
> Question: What do the last 5 NBA champions have in common?
> 
> Answer: Outstanding Guard Play.
> 
> Question: When was the last time a UBER talented SF/PF (and he is a tweener), was the face of a championship team?
> 
> Answer: Larry Bird, 20 years ago.
> 
> Question: Is Beasley as Good as Lebron James?
> 
> Answer: Nope.
> 
> Question: Is Rose a top 5 PG in the east from the word go?
> 
> Answer: Yup.
> 
> This really isn't close.


that is completely wrong.

2006 Spurs -big man
2005 heat- catalysted by big man
2004- big man
2003-catalysted by big man
2002-big man
2001-big man
2000-big man
1999- big man
1998-big man
1997-Wing Player
1996-Wing Player

so in that entire span of a decade you got two ALLSTAR pgs.

in that entire time you got ZERO champions without allstar big men.


----------



## Deke

Salvaged Ship said:


> Even though Skiles is gone, the Bulls have a reputation and track record of drafting power forwards and turning them into flops. We seem to draft power forwards with our top pick most years, and that goes back to the Krause era. We need someone who is exciting, brings energy, gets the crowd into it. Bulls currently are so boring it brings you to tears. Drafting yet another pf, escpecially with the track record the Bulls have of not developing big men, is a mistake.
> 
> Drat Rose, and start him from the first game. I would worry we are going to hear that earn your minutes and develop the player slow nonsense, and either player drafted will get few minutes. Time to draft the exciting player and play him.
> 
> D'Antoni would have been a great fit with us getting Rose. I don't want a young, inexperienced coach. The only coach out there now I like is Avery Johnson. The other veteran coaches and young assistant's out there do not impress me at all....


except pg is our best position.

whats our worst position? PF.

and we have only had bad success because we aimed at players from winning schools and not winning talent ie aldridge.


----------



## Deke

Rose will not be that amazing as a rookie guys. he only averaged 15/5 in COLLEGE. in the nba 15/5 will not make you a top 10 pg. and whose to say his transition is that effortless?

beasley is MUCH more nba ready and he plays a position we drastically need scoring at.
we dont NEED a pg. could we use a better pg? yeah but we NEED a real big man. a pg is not a neccesity.


----------



## RSP83

Derrick Rose.

Why?
- IMO, Michael Beasley will be on par with the likes of Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, and Amare Stoudemire. But I just can't see him dominate them. I think they'll even out. His potential is second tier compare to Lebron James, Dwight Howard, Greg Oden, and even Kevin Durant. I really doubt that he's going to be the most dominant of all the league big men. And the only SF since Larry Bird I can see leading a team to championship is Lebron James. So Beasley doesn't make me drool too much.

- The success of Chris Paul and Deron Williams have convinced me that a talented PG surrounded by a good team with good coaching can go really far. And those guys are still very young. They're still far from reaching their full potential. I think Derrick Rose has what it takes to join them as one of the league's top PG for years to come. Rose don't seem to be vocal like Deron and Paul. But, we got Noah to take care of that lol!. Based on how fast he's been making progress during his freshmen year in college, I don't see any reason why he can't continue making fast progress in the league. Other than that, we need a guy who can run a team. Our players will benefit from playing with him.


----------



## lgtwins

Deke said:


> <b>except pg is our best position.</b>
> 
> whats our worst position? PF.
> 
> and we have only had bad success because we aimed at players from winning schools and not winning talent ie aldridge.


<b>-1</b>


----------



## Wade County

Congrats to the Bulls on your Draft win, cant believe how lucky you are - but hey, we're second (or 1b) so im not upset.

Good luck!


----------



## Deke

lgtwins said:


> <b>-1</b>


Gordon
Hinrich
Duhon

thats is half our offense at 1 position.

and everyones high on rose cuz of paul/deron but guess what? THEY HAVE ALLSTAR BIG MEN!


----------



## King Joseus

Deke said:


> that is completely wrong.
> 
> 2006 Spurs -big man
> 2005 heat- catalysted by big man
> 2004- big man
> 2003-catalysted by big man
> 2002-big man
> 2001-big man
> 2000-big man
> 1999- big man
> 1998-big man
> 1997-Wing Player
> 1996-Wing Player
> 
> so in that entire span of a decade you got two ALLSTAR pgs.
> 
> in that entire time you got ZERO champions without allstar big men.


Finals MVP
2007: Tony Parker
2006: Dwyane Wade
2004: Chauncey Billups

3 of the past 4 years, the most instrumental player for the NBA Finals Champ has been an elite guard. I know better than to discredit Duncan - the man's one of the all-time greats, but without Parker that team would've been done a few years ago.

Going away from that point, there's a reason the Jazz and Hornets are where they are now - Chris Paul and Deron Williams. Rose will be the same way.

Anyhow, here's what Chris Paul and Deron averaged their final seasons in school:

Paul - 15.3 PPG, 6.6 APG
Deron - 12.5 PPG, 6.8 APG

Rose falls in the middle scoring-wise (though beats both in FG%) and falls a couple of assists short of both. Rose had Douglas-Roberts to pass the ball to while Paul had Eric Williams _and_ Justin Gray and Deron Williams had Luther Head _and_ Dee Brown. If you've watched Rose this year, you'll know that he's just as special as either of those guys.


----------



## Deke

King Joseus said:


> Finals MVP
> 2007: Tony Parker
> 2006: Dwyane Wade
> 2004: Chauncey Billups
> 
> 3 of the past 4 years, the most instrumental player for the NBA Finals Champ has been an elite guard. I know better than to discredit Duncan - the man's one of the all-time greats, but without Parker that team would've been done a few years ago.
> 
> Going away from that point, there's a reason the Jazz and Hornets are where they are now - Chris Paul and Deron Williams. Rose will be the same way.
> 
> Anyhow, here's what Chris Paul and Deron averaged their final seasons in school:
> 
> Paul - 15.3 PPG, 6.6 APG
> Deron - 12.5 PPG, 6.8 APG
> 
> Rose falls in the middle scoring-wise (though beats both in FG%) and falls a couple of assists short of both. Rose had Douglas-Roberts to pass the ball to while Paul had Eric Williams _and_ Justin Gray and Deron Williams had Luther Head _and_ Dee Brown. If you've watched Rose this year, you'll know that he's just as special as either of those guys.


what do tony parker,chauncey billups,chris paul, deron williams, and steve nash have in common?

allstar bigs. the bigs carried their team to the finals. maybe the guards played better in the final series but without the bigs they would have never even been there.

even if you got magic johnson, if your best inside scorer is drew gooden. your not going to the finals. we have more then enough perimeter talent.


----------



## Greg Ostertag!

Deke said:


> Rose will not be that amazing as a rookie guys. he only averaged 15/5 in COLLEGE. in the nba 15/5 will not make you a top 10 pg. and whose to say his transition is that effortless?


You just don't understand how talent translates to the NBA, mate. The NCAA is a coaches league, the NBA is a talent league. Derrick Rose has the most physical talent of *all* current NBA guards and for that reason, I can guarantee you that his stats will *inflate* in the NBA. Beasley in not really in his own league. which Rose is, in that regard when it comes to talented power forwards.

With the current handchecking rules, Rose will be able to get to the hoop on a LeBron/Wade/CP3 level. As opposed to sharing the ball with CDR et al, Rose will be the playmaker for the Bulls.

You need a playmaker to be elite in the NBA. Beasley is not that, Rose is.

This case is open and shut. I'm calling at least 18/8 for him in his first season with the Bulls. Congratulations, you all. You deserve it.


----------



## pac4eva5

i sure hope u guys draft rose. he may not exactly be the bulls' top priority but it shouldnt matter. PF's dont win championships. a great PG is better than a great SF/PF. duncan may be the exception but beasley aint on his level anyway.

rose is a lock imo. hes a guarnteed top 5 PG, and most likely top 3 PG in a few years. it would be a shame to draft a slightly taller carmelo over deron williams. i know those arent perfect examples but u get my drift...


----------



## King Joseus

thebizkit69u said:


> I aim to end any Kirk Hinrich love with the following videos.


Kirk Hinrich and Derrick Rose love are not mutually exclusive.

Just sayin'. :biggrin:


----------



## Greg Ostertag!

FWIW, I hope that you would keep Hinrich to play in the same backcourt as Rose. It's like starting with Duhon, except you know... Derrick Rose instead 

Rose/Hinrich
Hinrich/Thabo
Deng/Nocioni
Gooden/Thomas
Noah/someone

Don't know what shall be done with Gordon and Hughes. Could they be pawned off for a center?


----------



## Deke

pac4eva5 said:


> i sure hope u guys draft rose. he may not exactly be the bulls' top priority but it shouldnt matter. PF's dont win championships. a great PG is better than a great SF/PF. duncan may be the exception but beasley aint on his level anyway.
> 
> rose is a lock imo. hes a guarnteed top 5 PG, and most likely top 3 PG in a few years. it would be a shame to draft a slightly taller carmelo over deron williams. i know those arent perfect examples but u get my drift...


my *** they dont.

how many rings do jason kidd,chris paul,deron williams,steve nash,allen iverson,baron davis,and gilbert arenas have combined?


----------



## Greg Ostertag!

How many do Carmelo Anthony, Derrick Coleman, Kenyon Martin, Shawn Marion, Lamar Odom etc. have? 

That is the field of players that Beasley fits within, not the dominant big men of Duncan, Shaq, Olajuwon.


I'll tell you something for free, all championship teams have a playmaker. There is one surefire, can't-miss playmaker in the draft. It's Derrick Rose.


----------



## King Joseus

Greg Ostertag! said:


> FWIW, I hope that you would keep Hinrich to play in the same backcourt as Rose. It's like starting with Duhon, except you know... Derrick Rose instead
> 
> Rose/Hinrich
> Hinrich/Thabo
> Deng/Nocioni
> Gooden/Thomas
> Noah/someone
> 
> Don't know what shall be done with Gordon and Hughes. Could they be pawned off for a center?


We're likely stuck with Hughes till his contract's expiring. Our best bet for a trade is either Gooden's expiring or Gordon in a sign and trade (or both).

An upgrade over Gooden would be nice, but we'd be alright with the existing trio (plus Gray, I suppose). Gooden's expiring will be more valuable as the trade deadline approaches, as well, so it's always possible we wait on a deal.

The possibilities with Rose (regardless of who one thinks is the better player) are just greater than those with Beasley.


----------



## Ruff Draft

Using Hinrich as the 6th man is a great idea, but couldn't trading him net something that could bring more improvement?


----------



## Ruff Draft

Deke said:


> my *** they dont.
> 
> how many rings do jason kidd,chris paul,deron williams,steve nash,allen iverson,baron davis,and gilbert arenas have combined?


Young careers or played on bad teams.


----------



## Deke

Ruff Draft said:


> Young careers or played on bad teams.


but those are ALL the elite pgs! besides tony and billups no great pgs have rings these days.

now a great pg helps but most of these title teams didnt have pgs as good as kirk.

look at the rockets,bulls,lakers,early spurs.

none of these teams had better pg talent then we have.

Beasley may not be shaq or olajuwon but he will be a GREAT player. he will probably be the best scoring PF of this decade. an amare stoudemire type player. thats what we need.

will rose be better then hinrich? yes. but like i said if you got stockton and magic falls to you. do you draft magic or draft barkley? thats how i see it.


----------



## NewAgeBaller

I'm not gona read through the entire thread but, can I get an honest answer to this question:

- Who of Beasley and Rose does it seem the BULLS ORGANISATION is gona draft?? I need to know, being a Heat fan we get your leftovers (best leftovers ever by the way).


----------



## Deke

NewAgeBaller said:


> I'm not gona read through the entire thread but, can I get an honest answer to this question:
> 
> - Who of Beasley and Rose does it seem the BULLS ORGANISATION is gona draft?? I need to know, being a Heat fan we get your leftovers (best leftovers ever by the way).


unfortunately i think it will be rose. but like i said if we do a good trade for frontcourt talent im fine with it.

paxson only drafts from final 4 talent it seems
he buys into draft hype
rose is from chicago
i believe krause drafted hinrich(not completely sure)


----------



## Greg Ostertag!

Paxson drafted Hinrich after Jay Williams got injured (for good).


----------



## NewAgeBaller

Deke said:


> unfortunately i think it will be rose. but like i said if we do a good trade for frontcourt talent im fine with it.
> 
> paxson only drafts from final 4 talent it seems
> he buys into draft hype
> rose is from chicago
> i believe krause drafted hinrich(not completely sure)


K thanks. I'm assuming you personally prefer Beasley?

As a Heat fan I don't mind either really. I was higher up for Rose but eithers fine. Good luck with your season.


----------



## Deke

i love michael beasleys game. we havent had any consistent offensive threats in a very long time(not since elton brand and ron artest days). i think if we have beasley we can be a 50 win team and only grow from there.


----------



## Diplomat

http://blog.chicagobullseye.com/200...-our-bulls-have-landed-the-number-1-pick.aspx

Well...

I'm not going to predict too much...but

- if we pick Rose - there are huge odds that some trades are going to be made, and I mean real trades - including one of the Bulls' current top players like Hinrich, Gordon or Deng.

- if we pick Beasley, well, we could just leave him in and try to make him our next Horace Grant. 

We'll see.

I hope (or better yet I KNOW) that the Bulls' office knows that trading for some "brand" player like Carmelo, Iverson or whoever, won't get us nowhere fast.

And I hope (and know) that won't likely happen.


----------



## hroz

ROSE

Hinrich-Thomas
4
Bogut or Okafor or .......
You think the Bucks/Bobcats would bite?


----------



## Deke

hroz said:


> ROSE
> 
> Heinrich-Thomas
> 4
> Bogut or Okafor or .......
> You think the Bucks/Bobcats would bite?


i actually wouldnt mind trading tyrus and hinrich for Okafer. in fact id LOVE that deal.

pg-Rose/Gordon
sg-Hughes/Thabo
sf-Deng/Noc
Pf-Meka/free agent big man
C-Noah/Gray

that team could easily win 50 games if not more and maybe even topple detroit or boston if not immediately, certainly down the road. thats my ideal scenario if we arent getting beasley.


----------



## Salvaged Ship

Deke said:


> except pg is our best position.
> 
> whats our worst position? PF.
> 
> and we have only had bad success because we aimed at players from winning schools and not winning talent ie aldridge.


We have depth at all positions. While we have plenty of small guards, all of them are very mediocre. In fact, every player at every position is mediocre at best. So then you need to look at which position an upgrade is most important and which will help other players on the team become better. A power forward is not a position which will make other players that much better. A floor leader with great talent and savvy will. Magic made his teammates so much better. Not comparing Rose to Magic, but Rose will help other players be better. How many times do we see Hinrich, Gordon, Duhon dribble into traffic and throw it out for a turnover. I also think Gooden is decent and will get better with a quality point guard.


----------



## Deke

Salvaged Ship said:


> We have depth at all positions. While we have plenty of small guards, all of them are very mediocre. In fact, every player at every position is mediocre at best. So then you need to look at which position an upgrade is most important and which will help other players on the team become better. A power forward is not a position which will make other players that much better. A floor leader with great talent and savvy will. Magic made his teammates so much better. Not comparing Rose to Magic, but Rose will help other players be better. How many times do we see Hinrich, Gordon, Duhon dribble into traffic and throw it out for a turnover. I also think Gooden is decent and will get better with a quality point guard.


i disagree. a consistent offensive threat will set the pace for the entire offense. hinrich is not some horrible passer. he can run an offense, we just need a real big man. tyrus is not that guy. neither is noah. you dont win without inside scoring.


----------



## BenDengGo

draft rose and start rose - sefolosha - deng - thomas - noah

thabo will be much improved next season. remember, he skipped the olympics the work on his game!
deng is an excellent midrange shooter and great rebounder, pax has to lock him up.
i wont trade thomas just yet, give him one more year, a playmaker like rose will do wonders.
noah has proven to be very serviceble, great motor and will, he is here to stay.

i'd bring back duhon and trade hinrich to the blazers for their pick and draft kevin love.
not sure what to do with gordon, obviously he's our best shooter and scorer but he's also very inconsistent.
pax has to see what kind of money he's looking for.

has anyone heard an interview with beasley?? that dudes sound like an elementary school boy.


----------



## Deke

BenDengGo said:


> draft rose and start rose - sefolosha - deng - thomas - noah
> 
> thabo will be much improved next season. remember, he skipped the olympics the work on his game!
> deng is an excellent midrange shooter and great rebounder, pax has to lock him up.
> i wont trade thomas just yet, give him one more year, a playmaker like rose will do wonders.
> noah has proven to be very serviceble, great motor and will, he is here to stay.
> 
> i'd bring back duhon and trade hinrich to the blazers for their pick and draft kevin love.
> not sure what to do with gordon, obviously he's our best shooter and scorer but he's also very inconsistent.
> pax has to see what kind of money he's looking for.
> 
> has anyone heard an interview with beasley?? that dudes sound like an elementary school boy.


thats not a horrible idea but if we dont get love we are still a HORRIBLE offensive team and we probably miss the playoffs again.


----------



## The ROY

Beasley isn't an 'Amare' like talent..

You're alone on this one man....accept the fact that Rose will be the PG and some moves maybe made for an interior scorer but Paxson isn't dumb.


----------



## Diplomat

Let's trade the pick for Marbury. And Carmelo.

Then we are 100% we got the lottery locked down for next 5 seasons.

So we can punch some further trades with our draft picks.


----------



## jnrjr79

thebizkit69u said:


> Ok, sorry now its time for you to go.
> 
> Hinrich was allways an overrated defender and last year he was crap!
> 
> Rose is a superb defender who can shut down good PG's and keep great PG's and SG's from going nuts on the Bulls. I have never seen Hinrich "Shut down" anyone.


Wade?


(I agree though that Hinrich should be on the first bus out of town if Rose is the pick. You have to clear that guard logjam.)


----------



## Dornado

I don't get it... if we draft Rose, will Ben Gordon and Larry Hughes start closing out on three point shooters.... will Gordon be able to to play man defense all of the sudden?

I don't think so... and so I wouldn't ship Hinrich out at all... good teams get good defensive play from their guards. 

...and why would we want to put the pressure on Derrick Rose that we previously put on Hinrich by pairing him with someone who can't play D?


----------



## jnrjr79

Deke said:


> you guys act as if rose is going to miraculously give tyrus thomas some low post moves. people give too much credit for pgs improving the offense. does it help? yes. but a great pg doesnt turn a 5 ppg scorer into great inside scorer we lack.
> 
> the thing is i think both will be allstars by their sophomore year. but we have a solid pg. we have a HORRIBLE frontcourt. id say top 5 worst frontcourts in the nba. then beasley falls to us. take him.
> 
> people overestimate the values of a pg. There has been ALOT more teams with the centerpice being the frontcourt to win a ring then there has been with allstar pgs.


Chris Paul. Tyson Chandler.

I rest my case.


:biggrin:


----------



## yodurk

jnrjr79 said:


> Wade?
> 
> 
> (I agree though that Hinrich should be on the first bus out of town if Rose is the pick. You have to clear that guard logjam.)


Also Ray Allen, on multiple occasions. Played Iverson incredibly well in his first couple seasons as well, but I think Kirk has lost a step since (kinda sad for a 26 yr old PG).

I'm ok keeping Kirk as a backup combo-guard, as I think he still can play 25-30 minutes in that capacity. However, I agree that Hinrich is most likely to get moved. The rumblings in the news media say: (a) Bulls front office is "frustrated" with Hinrich, and (b) Hinrich still has "good" trade value.

You also have to consider that drafting Rose means we need to lock Luol Deng into a long-term deal, at the minimum (assuming we don't trade him, which would be hard anyways due to BYC status). That means we relieve the hefty Hinrich contract onto someone like Portland, where Kirk would fit in marvelously. Perhaps net their draft pick & an expiring cap filler.


----------



## GB

Deke said:


> Kirk Hinrich is a GREAT passer.


Even if that were the case, Paxson said on ESPN this morning that his roster will in no way affect his choice. He's picking the best player of the two, and will manage the roster afterward.


----------



## jnrjr79

Dornado said:


> I don't get it... if we draft Rose, will Ben Gordon and Larry Hughes start closing out on three point shooters.... will Gordon be able to to play man defense all of the sudden?
> 
> I don't think so... and so I wouldn't ship Hinrich out at all... good teams get good defensive play from their guards.
> 
> ...and why would we want to put the pressure on Derrick Rose that we previously put on Hinrich by pairing him with someone who can't play D?



I think everyone would be in favor of shipping Hughes out, but that contract may not be movable until the year after next when it's expiring. I just hope he doesn't whine too much if he doesn't get PT next year.

I also think the idea is that Hinrich receives a fairly high salary and you'd be sliding him to the 2 guard, which isn't ideal. Sefolosha makes more sense. Gordon could also work with Rose taking over Hinrich's job of defending 2's. Gordon is always going to screw up your defensive scheme, but I'd be interested to see what kind of looks he could get with a facilitator like Rose.

I think a Gordon sign and trade or a Hinrich trade are both about equally likely, depending on Gordon's notion of what he should be paid.


----------



## GB

Deke said:


> you guys act as if rose is going to miraculously give tyrus thomas some low post moves.


He's going to give them to Noah too. :biggrin:


----------



## yodurk

Deke said:


> how many rings do jason kidd,chris paul,deron williams,steve nash,allen iverson,baron davis,and gilbert arenas have combined?


Kidd led moderately talented teams to 2 Finals appearances. Don't tell me Kenyon Martin, Richard Jefferson, Kerry Kittles, and an average bench is anything to write home about. Give them 1 legit scorer to the mix (which yes, the Bulls will need but is easier to find than a transcendent PG) and you have yourself a contender.

Paul's time will come, and almost did if not for an inexperienced roster.

Deron's time will come so long as Paul doesn't stand in the way. There's only room for one. 

Nash only played on great teams with no D. It sure looks like our defense will be there.

Iverson, Davis, and Arenas are shoot first PG's and don't belong in the same category as the others.

It's not just about making teammates better though, it's also about having a guy who you can give the ball to in crunch time. I'm sick of seeing Ben Gordon trip over his own foot with the clock running down.


----------



## BenDengGo

how about hinrich and hughes for portlands pick and lafrentz.

portlands gets the starting pg for years to come,
bulls save nearly $13million and get another quality prospect (love, jordan, mcgee, koufos, budinger...someone will eventually fall)


resign gordon to hinrich like contract
lock up deng with the slightly below max money.


----------



## yodurk

Question: Why are so many outsiders (as in media writers not from Chicago) saying the Bulls will take Michael Beasley?

http://www.draftexpress.com/blog/Jonathan-Givony/



> While they will work out and certainly give Derrick Rose a long hard look, it makes way too much sense to draft Beasley and let him fit right in at the biggest hole in their lineup—the 4. This pick fixes a lot of things for Chicago’s players, front office, local media and fan-base—things don’t look all that bad any more all of a sudden.


ESPN has some guys saying the same thing. Are they watching the same team as we are? Yeah, we don't exactly have Karl Malone manning our low-post, but they act like Tyrus Thomas & Drew Gooden don't even exist. They're better options at PF than much of the crap teams are forced to throw out there. And Thomas is a long ways from peaking. Why don't they see how badly we need a dynamic backcourt player, a leader, and a go-to playmaker?


----------



## GB

yodurk said:


> Question: Why are so many outsiders (as in media writers not from Chicago) saying the Bulls will take Michael Beasley?
> 
> http://www.draftexpress.com/blog/Jonathan-Givony/


They didn't hear his interview this morning and they still think he's going to pick based on need...and not on BPA.


----------



## yodurk

Yet another pick for Beasley. I guess it just gets old constantly hearing "Chicago needs a post scorer" about every other day. I've disputed that argument for the past 3 seasons and the only reason I would consider Beasley is to shut up the people who keep rambling on about how great post scoring is.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...F?slug=ys-mockdraft052108&prov=yhoo&type=lgns



> Michael Beasley, PF, 19, 6-9, 235 pounds (Kansas State freshman): Chicago strikes gold by securing the athletic scoring power forward they’ve been lacking for some time now. This pick also could be in play.


----------



## Dornado

I have yet to see a single piece of evidence that Beasley scores in the post.... dunks are not "post scoring"... looks to me like he's a fluid athlete that can score facing the basket from plenty of places... 

Anyone ever see him play with his back to the basket?


----------



## yodurk

Dornado said:


> I have yet to see a single piece of evidence that Beasley scores in the post.... dunks are not "post scoring"... looks to me like he's a fluid athlete that can score facing the basket from plenty of places...
> 
> Anyone ever see him play with his back to the basket?


The term "post scoring" is one of the most overused yet misunderstood terms in basketball. People often associate a big man who either dunks alot or scores from 10 feet in as a post scorer.

Jermaine O'Neal is constantly referred to as a post scorer, yet every time I watch him he's shooting 15 foot jumpers. 

Alot of your top big men score a high % of their points off rebounds and put-backs, not Shaq-esque post moves. If you ask me, all this post scoring talk is rooted from the Shaq championship era. In reality, there are very few post players anymore who consistently post-up and make a living in the paint. The best ones all have a certain level of versatility where they occasionally post up, but also will drive or shoot from mid-range (e.g. Duncan, Boozer, Amare...they all do it).


----------



## BullsBaller

> By Deke
> Re: Official Beasley v Rose Thread
> the only way i wouldnt mind taking rose is if we trade hinrich-duhon for some kind of real big man. maybe jermaine oneal?



Exactly! Look at the great big men who have been traded for almost next to nothing in the last couple seasons (Rasheed, S. O'Neal, Garnett). With our young assets, how hard would it be to pry a disgruntled good big man from a nba team? (Jermaine, Brand, etc...)

One problem with Captain Kirk is his ability to get into the paint at will. CP3, D. Willams, and Tony Parker can all get into the paint at will and shoot the floater or create contact and finish. Rose can do this, but Kirk cannot. I have observed him carefully and it takes a lot of effort from him to drive around a defender and to pass the ball into the post. Rose does this effortlessly. Also, great players who score a lot do it at the foul line (Jordan, Bryant, etc...). Roses ability to penetrate and create/take contact will give him a lot of free points at the foul line. 

Deke, I just don't think you want to trade away Ben Gordon b/c he would be the first to go with Rose in the mix.


----------



## thebizkit69u

This is just damn tough, Beasley by far is the better offensive talent but Derrick Rose has the best tools for his possition to be a superstar in the NBA. Beasley will not be dominating NBA 3's and 4's the way he did in College, with Roses size and skill set it would not surprise anyone to see Rose dominate NBA point guards.


----------



## Deke

if we trade gordon and draft rose. we will be the worst offensive team in the nba lol.


----------



## Diplomat

Please anything but geting rid of Air Gordon....


----------



## Sir Patchwork

thebizkit69u said:


> This is just damn tough, Beasley by far is the better offensive talent but Derrick Rose has the best tools for his possition to be a superstar in the NBA. Beasley will not be dominating NBA 3's and 4's the way he did in College, with Roses size and skill set it would not surprise anyone to see Rose dominate NBA point guards.


I really don't know that Beasley is the better offensive talent. He may be the better scoring talent, but offense is more than that. With Rose, you're getting a guy who has no trouble scoring, and also can beat double teams and find open guys with ease. 

I'm surprised nobody has brought up his passing ability. You know how easy it is to nuetralize a player who can't read defenses and beat double teams?


----------



## HB

I dont get how the Bulls could pick Rose over Beasley. You keep hearing this Paul and Williams comparisons, but Rose is nothing like them. Very athletic no doubt, speedy and such. Rose is more of a scorer than a passer. 

Bulls have been searching for a low post scorer for a while now, theres finally one in sight and they are going to pass up on him. Baffling


----------



## HB

Dornado said:


> I have yet to see a single piece of evidence that Beasley scores in the post.... dunks are not "post scoring"... looks to me like he's a fluid athlete that can score facing the basket from plenty of places...
> 
> Anyone ever see him play with his back to the basket?


Hook shots, fadeaway Js. He does it all with ease


----------



## croco

HB said:


> I dont get how the Bulls could pick Rose over Beasley. You keep hearing this Paul and Williams comparisons, but Rose is nothing like them. Very athletic no doubt, speedy and such. Rose is more of a scorer than a passer.
> 
> Bulls have been searching for a low post scorer for a while now, theres finally one in sight and they are going to pass up on him. Baffling


He is pass first, score second. And most of all he likes making the right decision, you need to take what the defense gives you. That is why Chris Paul and Deron Williams are so good and are now considered the two best point guards in the league.


----------



## HB

He reminds me more of Wade than he does of Paul and Williams (true pass first, score second guards).

Devin Harris is also another good comparison


----------



## someone

NewAgeBaller said:


> um.. well that was unexpected.. :laugh:
> 
> Ah well, I'd rather the #1 pick but we're not too fussed over the #2. Good luck to you guys and maybe we can both climb back atop the East soon! :cheers:
> 
> Oh and congrats to leikomdgojkgm for sticking through a hard season. Man you must have had like a thousand posts in game threads alone this season..


It was a difficult season but it was worth it! :biggrin: Can't wait till the one coming up.


----------



## someone

BG44 said:


> Congrats to the Bulls on your Draft win, cant believe how lucky you are - but hey, we're second (or 1b) so im not upset.
> 
> Good luck!


easiest pick to have, haha, just pick the one we don't pick


----------



## croco

Devin is not a good comparison because he doesn't have the vision of an elite point guard. He is solid at a lot of aspects, but he does nothing really great. Not sure how you can bring up Dwyane Wade and Devin Harris as legit comparisons when they play totally different. I don't think Wade is score first either, he is usually looking for his teammates until they fourth quarter when he decides to take over. Like Williams and Paul, he takes what the defense gives him. If Rose learns to make the right decisions, he will be near unstoppable.

No matter who the Bulls take, they got a lot of work to do besides picking Beasley or Rose. Hopefully (for Bulls fans) Paxson realizes that they got lucky and can't wait to do nothing again.


----------



## GB

HB said:


> Bulls have been searching for a low post scorer for a while now, theres finally one in sight and they are going to pass up on him. Baffling


What if he's not the BPA?


----------



## HB

croco said:


> Devin is not a good comparison because he doesn't have the vision of an elite point guard. He is solid at a lot of aspects, but he does nothing really great. Not sure how you can bring up Dwyane Wade and Devin Harris as legit comparisons when they play totally different. I don't think Wade is score first either, he is usually looking for his teammates until they fourth quarter when he decides to take over. Like Williams and Paul, he takes what the defense gives him. If Rose learns to make the right decisions, he will be near unstoppable.
> 
> No matter who the Bulls take, they got a lot of work to do besides picking Beasley or Rose. Hopefully (for Bulls fans) Paxson realizes that they got lucky and can't wait to do nothing again.


I think their job would be much easier with Beasley. Because they already have pieces in place. Beasley just fills a need they have been looking for. If they draft Rose, they still have the glaring hole at the 4 spot.

Wade's a scorer no doubt. His natural position is the 2 spot.


----------



## Deke

HB said:


> I dont get how the Bulls could pick Rose over Beasley. You keep hearing this Paul and Williams comparisons, but Rose is nothing like them. Very athletic no doubt, speedy and such. Rose is more of a scorer than a passer.
> 
> Bulls have been searching for a low post scorer for a while now, theres finally one in sight and they are going to pass up on him. Baffling


i feel the same exact way as you do. i am saddened a bit but rose is still more then i was expecting us to get.


----------



## HB

GB said:


> What if he's not the BPA?


Thats highly debatable. I mean Rose is going to be a good player also, you are just going to have to do some more work with the team as is with him on board


----------



## someone

BenDengGo said:


> draft rose and start rose - sefolosha - deng - thomas - noah
> 
> thabo will be much improved next season. remember, he skipped the olympics the work on his game!
> deng is an excellent midrange shooter and great rebounder, pax has to lock him up.
> i wont trade thomas just yet, give him one more year, a playmaker like rose will do wonders.
> noah has proven to be very serviceble, great motor and will, he is here to stay.
> 
> i'd bring back duhon and trade hinrich to the blazers for their pick and draft kevin love.
> not sure what to do with gordon, obviously he's our best shooter and scorer but he's also very inconsistent.
> pax has to see what kind of money he's looking for.
> 
> has anyone heard an interview with beasley?? that dudes sound like an elementary school boy.


Sounds like a great team


----------



## thebizkit69u

Sir Patchwork said:


> I really don't know that Beasley is the better offensive talent. He may be the better scoring talent, but offense is more than that. With Rose, you're getting a guy who has no trouble scoring, and also can beat double teams and find open guys with ease.
> 
> I'm surprised nobody has brought up his passing ability. You know how easy it is to nuetralize a player who can't read defenses and beat double teams?


I will say that Beasley is the better scoring talent, now that I think about it both players bring something special to their teams offensively but what it probably comes down too is which player makes his teamates better, the answer is clearly Derrick Rose. To this day I'm still shocked that Beasley did not get Bill Walker more involved in the offense.


----------



## GB

HB said:


> Thats highly debatable.


What I'm asking is this: Is it acceptable to throw out 'needs' and go with the player the organization feels is best?


----------



## HB

GB said:


> What I'm asking is this: Is it acceptable to throw out 'needs' and go with the player the organization feels is best?


Its a good question, which I dont think I can answer properly. The Magic and Blazers probably asked themselves the question numerous times before making their picks


----------



## croco

HB said:


> I think their job would be much easier with Beasley. Because they already have pieces in place. Beasley just fills a need they have been looking for. If they draft Rose, they still have the glaring hole at the 4 spot.
> 
> Wade's a scorer no doubt. His natural position is the 2 spot.


Well, he is averaging 7 assists over the last four seasons and he was 11th in assist ration last year because he often is the playmaker aka point guard for Miami. I think Rose is a lot closer to Wade than to Harris, I actually liked the nbadraft.net comparison with Wade/Payton/Kidd a while ago. He has a little bit of everyone, hopefully he can take the best of each although that is a very high ceiling.


----------



## Deke

thebizkit69u said:


> I will say that Beasley is the better scoring talent, now that I think about it both players bring something special to their teams offensively but what it probably comes down too is which player makes his teamates better, the answer is clearly Derrick Rose. To this day I'm still shocked that Beasley did not get Bill Walker more involved in the offense.


so steve nash is better then kareem cuz he makes his teammates better?


----------



## someone

This is so much better than debating if we should pick Love or not :rofl2:


----------



## GB

Deke said:


> so steve nash is better then kareem cuz he makes his teammates better?


If Beaseley were a Tim Duncan/Shaquille/Kareem type that could change the game just by stepping on the court, sure.

I don't know that anyone is calling him that. Everyone is calling him a gifted scorer.

Glenn Robinson was a gifted scorer too. So was Vince Carter.


----------



## thebizkit69u

Deke said:


> so steve nash is better then kareem cuz he makes his teammates better?


First of all Rose has more in common with Nash than Beasley will ever have with Kareem. Second, I never said that Rose is better than Beasley, I said both bring something different but Rose makes his teamates better and thats his freaking job as a PG!


----------



## BenDengGo

i'm impressed at how much bulk rose has put in one season!!!

look at his high school day!, he looked like a twig.
at memphis he looked very compact and strong with defined muscles.

his body is already is nba ready


----------



## DengNabbit

Glenn Robinson...interesting

on that note: which player would be more surprising as an NBA disappointment? 



i'd say Rose


----------



## Deke

GB said:


> If Beaseley were a Tim Duncan/Shaquille/Kareem type that could change the game just by stepping on the court, sure.
> 
> I don't know that anyone is calling him that. Everyone is calling him a gifted scorer.
> 
> Glenn Robinson was a gifted scorer too. So was Vince Carter.


whose to say beasley isnt a game-changer?

and whose to say rose is magic?


----------



## thebizkit69u

Deke said:


> whose to say beasley isnt a game-changer?
> 
> and whose to say rose is magic?


How many 6'8 game changers are out there?


----------



## truebluefan

Rose is a no-brainer. This is not a slam on Beasley. He will be a very nice player. 

Just look at what a pt guard does for a team. The penetration! Williams, Nash, Paul. Look what they do for their teams. What would the teams be without them?


----------



## pac4eva5

Deke said:


> my *** they dont.
> 
> how many rings do jason kidd,chris paul,deron williams,steve nash,allen iverson,baron davis,and gilbert arenas have combined?


how many rings do malone, barkley, brand, garnett, nowitzki, webber, amare, gasol, k-mart, and shawn kemp have???

the only dominant power forwards who have won rings are guys who can dominate at the center position also like duncan or rasheed. dont mistake beasley for a center LOL, hes barely even a PF...

and ur list, like every post ive seen u make, is flat out flawed. other than kidd and nash, those examples are pure ****. paul and deron are barely in their 20's. iverson, arenas, baron davis!? to call them great PG's just shows ur ignorance.


----------



## croco

BenDengGo said:


> i'm impressed at how much bulk rose has put in one season!!!
> 
> look at his high school day!, he looked like a twig.
> at memphis he looked very compact and strong with defined muscles.
> 
> his body is already is nba ready


And he can still add around 10 lbs without losing quickness when you look at his frame.


----------



## DengNabbit

a key point

an excellent point guards makes a low-post scorer a non-necessity.


he can create space in other ways. he makes Tyrus Thomas' athleticism matter. Tyrus doesnt have to be a super-smart player now; he'll have Rose to do the 'heavy thinking' - and TT can continue being instinctual (and great at it, as he was in his rookie yr)

with a great PG, those instincts become more valuable.


----------



## Da Grinch

i'd go beasley he's the best player college ball has seen in years...and big men generally develop slower than guards, his ceiling is higher....all the teams still playing have dominant big men (4'sSheed , garnett,gasol and duncan)...not really the case at pg(fisher,parker billups and rondo...) this new era where you have to build your team with pg's hasn't reached the nba's final 4.


----------



## Marcus13

It seems that virtually every Bulls fan wants Rose....but Bulls fans don't get what they want very often


----------



## HB

DengNabbit said:


> a key point
> 
> an excellent point guards makes a low-post scorer a non-necessity.
> 
> 
> he can create space in other ways. he makes Tyrus Thomas' athleticism matter. Tyrus doesnt have to be a super-smart player now; he'll have Rose to do the 'heavy thinking' - and TT can continue being instinctual (and great at it, as he was in his rookie yr)
> 
> with a great PG, those instincts become more valuable.


This is false. Deron has Boozer, Nash has Amare, Chris Paul has David West


----------



## croco

HB said:


> This is false. Deron has Boozer, Nash has Amare, Chris Paul has David West


Not to mention the guy who was won a few rings in San Antonio.


----------



## HB

Exactly!

So even with Rose, you still have to go out and get a low post scorer. That is if the Bulls are really serious about contending


----------



## Dornado

What if Beasley really is 6'10"? I mean, I thought he was closer to 6'8... but what if the K-State measurement is right? If he's 6'10" at 19 years old I think we have to take a real hard look... who is to say he won't add an inch or two? (Tyson Chandler, Kevin Garnett both grew)...

If the guy is 6'10 or 6'11 down the road, given how fluid an athlete he is, and the monster numbers he put up... I don't know, maybe he is the real deal.


----------



## Bulls96

IMO, Beasley has a a very stupid face ...


----------



## Bulls96

HB said:


> Exactly!
> 
> So even with Rose, you still have to go out and get a low post scorer. That is if the Bulls are really serious about contending



...trade Gooden and Deng for Gasol !

...trade Ben for the 7 draft pick !


----------



## Sir Patchwork

Deke said:


> so steve nash is better then kareem cuz he makes his teammates better?


Beasley is more Lamar Odom than Kareem. Rose is more Dwyane Wade than Steve Nash. Wade or Odom? 

People need to stop throwing out names of other players who have or haven't won titles, and all of that nonsense. 

People also need to stop acting as if there is one way to win a title. Balance is important. Obviously big guys needed good guard play a vice versa. 

That really isn't the object of a draft though. A draft is where you pick the best player available and sort everything else out later. 

I think Rose is the best player available, and icing on the cake is that he is a hometown guy, has a visibly good work ethic, and just a great attitude. 

Beasley being a very good player is the only thing keeping it from being a no-brainer, but it's still a relatively simple decision.


----------



## HB

^Where you being serious when you compared Beasley to Odom?


----------



## GB

HB said:


> ^Where you being serious when you compared Beasley to Odom?


Odom was once compared to Magic Johnson.

It's true. Draft hysteria does weird things to normal folks.


----------



## 4putt

i watched every game beasley played in college... this guy was saddled on a team with no other scoring option most nights (zero) and a first-year coach that struggled making corrections with a very, very young team... yet, with literally a double, triple, collapse, box/one and every other junk defense thrown at him each and every night this guy scored at will and led the nation in rebounds

there is no way that team is over 30% much less .500 winning without him... to say that he was "point selfish" and "a bad apple playing only offense" is not an honest assessment by anyone that saw him play... he can score inside or outside, with either hand, slash and fade away and create shot angles around the basket better then most seasoned nba stars... this, all having just turned 19

rose is also special, there's no doubt... he played on a team with an exponentially better surrounding cast, in what anyone would agree was a very weak conference... what he did was have three out of four good games when it mattered... 

i challenge you to watch both players in their games vs kansas... beasley led his team to break a 25year loss streak at home going 4 for 4 from three with inspired play... and then went for 39 in lawerence on national tv in one of the toughest places to play in the country.. after sitting out most of the first half with foul trouble... take a look at beasley's year long stat sheet http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/players/playerpage/1333101 ... look at the amount of 40pts in 23min, 33pts in 22min, 40pts in 27min, 44pts in 38min, 39pts in 31min games and the body of work... transpose that to the longer nba game and no junk defense or triple team and you'll begin to think long and hard about who to pick... while rose had spurts of excellence in the championship game, when the game was in his hands ended up less than good enough... that and his season long performance http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/players/playerpage/1333246doesn't translate well to the nba, as a rookie

ask yourself... does his value as a solid point guard with a suspect shot (beasley is actually a better outside shooter than rose) outweigh the potential that beasley has playing in the nba? i guess that is the question

beasley will in the top five in rebounding coming out of the box as a rookie... and given the right offense, can score in bunches... i predict that he will be a 25 and 10 first year player and can lead the league in both categories as his body and game matures... you can choose to enjoy that, or let the miami heat get the last laugh

take rose over beasley and mark my words... the sam bowie karma will fall back into the bulls and bulls fans lap


----------



## Dornado

26 and 12 for Beasley as a true freshman is pretty ridiculous


----------



## giusd

I think this is going to be a tough call but for me Beasley looks more like a SF and we already have deng, noci, and thomas who play SF or swing PF while our guards were worse than awful last year. KH is one of my favorates but he put on all that extra muscle last year and he looked really slow. The truth is the NBA is a guards league and you cant win without good guard play and we just dont got it. Hughes as a really low bb iq, KH already looks old, and BG still cant dribble or pass.

I say lets keep BG off the bench, start Rose and Thabo, and move KH and hughes for another big man.

david


----------



## JonMatrix

All I used to hear on the boards since Curry got traded was that this team needed a post scorer...and now everyone is caught up in the hype of Rose. The fact is, it is impossible for the team to screw this pick up. Both guys are pretty close to being can't miss prospects.

Its tough to say what Pax will do because of the news that he took so much input from Skiles on personell decisions. So we can't forget the input of the new coach or of the owner, who I'm sure will like the hometown marketability of Derrick Rose.


----------



## ballerkingn

I got caught up in the hype to,but i'm really now leaning towards beasly in a sense.Because we really need someone who can score,and i think we can trade for a guard.Remember the griz have 3 very good young pg's that i think can get the job done here in chi town.Of course not at the same level of a rose,but none the less get the job done.Beasly in the east around the type of shooter we have would be very interesting to see.Rose though would be nice,but we i think would have a lot of the same problems we had this past year.No offense and having to lock down every team on defense to win,and out hustle them.That style of play where very thin.I think if we have someone to run the offense through in beasly it would make players jobs more easier and get us easier baskets from all the attention beasly will draw.I like beasly right now though.


----------



## Wade County

In all honesty, who are the Bulls going to pick? As a Heat fan, i need to know!


----------



## Maestro

:greatjob:It's gonna be Rose:gopray:


----------



## Deke

pac4eva5 said:


> how many rings do malone, barkley, brand, garnett, nowitzki, webber, amare, gasol, k-mart, and shawn kemp have???
> 
> the only dominant power forwards who have won rings are guys who can dominate at the center position also like duncan or rasheed. dont mistake beasley for a center LOL, hes barely even a PF...
> 
> and ur list, like every post ive seen u make, is flat out flawed. other than kidd and nash, those examples are pure ****. paul and deron are barely in their 20's. iverson, arenas, baron davis!? to call them great PG's just shows ur ignorance.


all the people i mentioned have made multiple all-nba teams man....

its not like i just picked my favorite pgs. basically every great pg of this gen hasnt won a ring.

rasheed won his ring as a pf.

you will never win a ring with the best pg of alltime and a weak frontcourt(EARLY 90s LAKERS)

but you can win a ring with great big men and a mediocre pg(early Spurs,3-peat Lakers)

no pg has ever won a ring in the modern nba with their best big man being drew gooden lol


----------



## Wade County

In all honesty, your not gonna win a championship with Kirk Hinrich as ur starting point right now either.

Bulls dont have an elite guard, they do have a very good forward in Deng...team him with Rose and he'll become a much better player. Gooden is serviceable, but the Bulls arent winning championships next year anyway. Make a run at Elton Brand or someone like that.

PG - Rose/Hinrich
SG - Hughes/Gordon
SF - Deng/Thabo
PF - Brand/Thomas
C - Noah/Gray


----------



## GB

Deke, is there a great big man in this draft?


----------



## 4putt

Deke said:


> you will never win a ring with the best pg of alltime and a weak frontcourt(EARLY 90s LAKERS)


that's a ballsy thing to post on a chicago bulls board... 'cause while MJ wasn't the point, i think strong guardplay did the trick... SIX TIMES!


----------



## Deke

BG44 said:


> In all honesty, your not gonna win a championship with Kirk Hinrich as ur starting point right now either.
> 
> Bulls dont have an elite guard, they do have a very good forward in Deng...team him with Rose and he'll become a much better player. Gooden is serviceable, but the Bulls arent winning championships next year anyway. Make a run at Elton Brand or someone like that.
> 
> PG - Rose/Hinrich
> SG - Hughes/Gordon
> SF - Deng/Thabo
> PF - Brand/Thomas
> C - Noah/Gray


that is not true. kirk is a defensive pg. lets say beasley becomes a monster scoring pf. like say a 26/12 pf. with that kind of production matched with our defense(which should be good again. a few years ago we were a top 3 defense) we would definately be able to take down anyone besides maybe the lakers(but theyre a dynasty brewing)


----------



## Deke

4putt said:


> that's a ballsy thing to post on a chicago bulls board... 'cause while MJ wasn't the point, i think strong guardplay did the trick... SIX TIMES!


theres a big difference between a pg and a sg. especially ROSE and MJ.


----------



## Deke

Rose is getting so ****ing overrated right now it is insane.


----------



## ballerkingn

Brand Isn't Coming Back Leave Him Be!


----------



## Wade County

A few years ago the Heat won the championship. Things change. Kirk Hinrich is currently on the same level or below as Drew Gooden as a player - Hinrich was better, but he played terrible last season. A star point guard is much rarer than a star power forward - id imagine the Bulls take Rose.

Also - for the record, I want Beasley on the Heat - so please take Rose


----------



## Deke

BG44 said:


> A few years ago the Heat won the championship. Things change. Kirk Hinrich is currently on the same level or below as Drew Gooden as a player - Hinrich was better, but he played terrible last season. A star point guard is much rarer than a star power forward - id imagine the Bulls take Rose.


that is one down year. **** happens.

everybody has a bad season in their career.


----------



## Deke

BG44 said:


> A few years ago the Heat won the championship. Things change. Kirk Hinrich is currently on the same level or below as Drew Gooden as a player - Hinrich was better, but he played terrible last season. A star point guard is much rarer than a star power forward - id imagine the Bulls take Rose.


except we have a need for a strong pf and no need for a strong pg. we have great pgs as ive said multiple times.

hinrich
gordon
duhon.


----------



## Wade County

Gordon is not a PG. Duhon is probably gone and Hinrich also is not a great PG. Mediocre and Passable? Yeah, but not great. He's also maxed out his potential.


----------



## BullsBaller

Da Grinch said:


> i'd go beasley he's the best player college ball has seen in years...and big men generally develop slower than guards, his ceiling is higher....all the teams still playing have dominant big men (4'sSheed , garnett,gasol and duncan)...not really the case at pg(fisher,parker billups and rondo...) this new era where you have to build your team with pg's hasn't reached the nba's final 4.


Those dominant 4's you mentioned are all a legit 7'0'', not 6'9'' (maybe?) like Beasely. When the experts say the Bulls need a big man, I think they mean a Big Man. A 4 who really should be a 5 and can play that spot i.e (Sheed,garnett,gasol and duncan).


----------



## Deke

BG44 said:


> Gordon is not a PG. Duhon is probably gone and Hinrich also is not a great PG. Mediocre and Passable? Yeah, but not great. He's also maxed out his potential.


Gordon is a pg who plays sg. duhon doesnt have to be gone.

Hinrich is not great but hes a good player. he had 1 bad year and its like hes kwame brown. hes led our team to 45+ wins 3 different times.

we will never be contenders without a strong group of inside scoring. Beasley is an inside banger. he will make a world of difference.

Rose is just being overhyped right now.

kirk is a 15/6 player with great defense

drew gooden is nothing more then a bench piece on a real contender
tyrus thomas barely scores 5 ppg
Noah is nothing more then a hustler/rebounder at this point

as long as our front court sucks, we will never get past the 2nd round even if rose becomes a top 15 pg EVER.


----------



## ballerkingn

Well ballerkingn is all for beasly Remember i said that.


----------



## Wade County

Beasley's not really a banger. Hes more a finesse type PF - he does most his damage on his face up game. Its not like hes gonna abuse NBA Power Forwards down on the block in his first year - he'll score majority on offensive boards, occasional post ups and his midrange jumper. First year stats id say would be about 15 and 8.


----------



## BullsBaller

That's the problem Deke. Kirk has a bad YEAR! It wasn't like he had a bad 10 game stretch or a 1 month bad stretch. He wasn't his usual self for a whole season. From that, I question his mental ability. He couldn't get out of the rut he was in all season long and that *scares *me. Many players don't reach their hype/potential b/c of their mental toughness. What got into his head and why couldn't he fix it? What happens if this occurs next season. What makes you think he will be able to bounce back? Take some of the pressure off him by drafting Rose.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

15 and 8 would be just about right for Beasley, especially if Deng and Gordon (both will be possibly playing for a bigger contract) are still on the team. I'd expect 12/3/8 and possibly quite a bit of steals from Rose if he is drafted by the Bulls.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Add to the fact that Rose has similar size and length to Gary Payton, then your low post presence has been found!


----------



## ballerkingn

Here's the big question and i want respones can Rose solve our offensive problems.I don't think he can,not at least right away.And if we wait where going to be back in the lottery.CP3 team didn't make it the playoffs his 1 year remember.Anyway i think beasly can and can also be enough to get us into the playoffs this year. And if Rose can cure our offensive problems please tell me.


----------



## Deke

BullsBaller said:


> That's the problem Deke. Kirk has a bad YEAR! It wasn't like he had a bad 10 game stretch or a 1 month bad stretch. He wasn't his usual self for a whole season. From that, I question his mental ability. He couldn't get out of the rut he was in all season long and that *scares *me. Many players don't reach their hype/potential b/c of their mental toughness. What got into his head and why couldn't he fix it? What happens if this occurs next season. What makes you think he will be able to bounce back? Take some of the pressure off him by drafting Rose.


by that logic the spurs should have traded Duncan in 2005-2006.

its rare to find a player in the nba who hasnt had a bad year.

it could be due to the fact the offense was out of sync and we had i believe 3 DIFFERENT COACHES AND SYSTEMS throughout 1 season. and no training camp to learn any of them.


----------



## The Krakken

Just Stop



Deke said:


> that is completely wrong.
> 
> 2006 Spurs -big man* Tony Parker was AT LEAST as important as Tim Duncan. AT LEAST.*
> 
> 2005 heat- catalysted by big man *Yeah, cause an old over the hill shaq who didn't even average 20ppg caused Wade to parade to the line to the tune of about 15 times per game And Wade was the MVP. Why?*
> 2004- big man *See 2006*
> 2003-catalysted by big man *And yet, he wasn't the MVP. I wonder why?*
> 2002-big man *Catalyzed by PG*
> 2001-big man *Yeah. Kobe did nothing*
> 2000-big man *See 2001*
> 1999- big man *I'll grant you this one*
> 1998-big man *Wrong*. Here you've lost all credibility. This was a Jordan title team.
> 
> so in that entire span of a decade you got two ALLSTAR pgs.


Nonsense.


----------



## King Joseus

ballerkingn said:


> Here's the big question and i want respones can Rose solve our offensive problems.I don't think he can,not at least right away.And if we wait where going to be back in the lottery.CP3 team didn't make it the playoffs his 1 year remember.Anyway i think beasly can and can also be enough to get us into the playoffs this year. And if Rose can cure our offensive problems please tell me.


Ah, but should making the playoffs next year be our main goal? I wouldn't doubt our chances with either Rose or Beasley. Our deciding factor for the #1 pick is who will make us the best in the long run.

A case can certainly be made for both, but I feel that what Rose brings is more rare than what Beasley brings.


----------



## ballerkingn

What making the playoff should be our goal every year.


----------



## BullsBaller

Deke said:


> by that logic the spurs should have traded Duncan in 2005-2006.
> 
> its rare to find a player in the nba who hasnt had a bad year.
> 
> it could be due to the fact the offense was out of sync and we had i believe 3 DIFFERENT COACHES AND SYSTEMS throughout 1 season. and no training camp to learn any of them.



Ahh...no! 
1) Duncan had won 3 championships before the 2005-06 season. Hinrich has won 0. Timmy had already proved his worth and wasn't himself due to being *physically *hurt.

2) The Bulls offense was out of sync before Skiles got fired, so you can't blame it on Boylan and the players inability to adapt to his system, which was pretty similar to Skiles anyways. The system in training camp was the same as the year before, so why was the offense out of sync? Who is responsible for the offense?


----------



## King Joseus

ballerkingn said:


> What making the playoff should be our goal every year.


Winning the championship should be the goal. Making the playoffs is all well and good, but you want to build your team with higher aspirations than that.


----------



## BullsBaller

#1 Draft Rose
#2 Trade for low post scorer
*CHI*
Gooden, Gordon, Filler
*LAC*
Brand, 2nd rounder

TEAM UNITS
Fast Tempo
1. Rose
2. Sefalosha
3. Deng
4. Thomas
5. Noah

Slow Tempo
1. Hinrich
2. Hughes
3. Nocioni
4. Brand
5. Gray

That's what I hope!


----------



## ballerkingn

BullsBaller said:


> #1 Draft Rose
> #2 Trade for low post scorer
> *CHI*
> Gooden, Gordon, Filler
> *LAC*
> Brand, 2nd rounder
> 
> TEAM UNITS
> Fast Tempo
> 1. Rose
> 2. Sefalosha
> 3. Deng
> 4. Thomas
> 5. Noah
> 
> Slow Tempo
> 1. Hinrich
> 2. Hughes
> 3. Nocioni
> 4. Brand
> 5. Gray
> 
> That's what I hope!


FOR THE LAST TIME BRAND IS NOT COMING BACK TO CHICAGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hate reading trades with this guy in it.It's not going to happen ever he's going forever!!!!!


----------



## Mr. Hobbes

No trade will happen. Gordon and Deng want a large contract but they've underachieved. Chicago still has to take care of that situation.

Since when is Beasley a legit big man? He's a 6'8-6'9 tweener that dominates athletically, not by his size or skill set down low. No defense either. He's basically a souped-up version of Drew Gooden as a prospect. Maybe he'll go for 20 a game, who knows. It won't matter. Double-team drawing, scoring prospects come up every single year.


----------



## chifaninca

Deke and Baller.....

No one is saying Beasley isn't a real good player with the offense we'd love to see our post players provide.


I actually have more faith in Gooden and Rose, than Hinrich and Beasley. The other problem is that Hinrich is out of position. He's a tweener himself, who (as the Bulls ahve done to often) was forced to change his game for the team. I'd be very happy to see Rose and Hinrich together. I think a trio of Hinrich, Rose and Sefalosha would be very good. All three need to improve their outside shooting.

One thing that Rose brings that Hinrich doesn't is a consistant desire to drive by others, which creates easy baskets for himself or our offensively challenged frontcourt.

The other major difference for me is that on BOTH ends of the floor, Rose will likely be a top 5 NBA player at his position, if not better. Beasley, will provide alot at the offensive end, but is basically average on the defensive end. Plus, he's gonna get muscled much more in the NBA. I don't see Beasley getting to Top 5 status.

Rose is special and a complete player. Beasley is a powerhouse on one end of the floor.

Also, a Power Forward has less impact on the game, than a PG. A PG sets the tone, dictates much of the game. Will I still clamor for a better power forward after we draft Rose, Yes. Would I be happy with Hinrich or Gordon at the point if we drafted Beasley, yes, but to a much lesser extent. I've never like Hinrich as a PG and unfortunately believe he's peaked and will continue to struggle against most PG's.

For those saying Bowie Karma will get us....I thought that explained the post Jordan Era. LOL. 

One last thought - If you draft Rose, you have a highly tradeable asset in Hinrich. Our frontcourt players have very little trade value, beyond expiring or rookie contracts.


----------



## ballerkingn

King Joseus said:


> Winning the championship should be the goal. Making the playoffs is all well and good, but you want to build your team with higher aspirations than that.



Ture,but i don't see either of them leading us to a championship.Its going to take some more luck.


----------



## King Joseus

*Bulls.com: Chuck Checks In (Rose/Beasley Talk)*

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/swirsky_080521.html



> The Bulls will explore everything that's out there, knowing several teams are desperate for a front line point guard in Rose and will have to ante up if that's what it takes to pull off a big time deal. Rose and Beasley are clearly the two best players in the 2008 draft.
> 
> Rose is going to be an All-Star in my opinion. Beasley has a shot at averaging a double-double once he establishes himself in the NBA. I flat out love Rose's game.
> 
> ESPN's Chad Ford believes the Bulls will go after Beasley, knowing Chicago needs a scoring/rebounding power forward.
> 
> This is going to be an aggressive offseason for a number of clubs, not just the Bulls. Only a few teams have cap room and with a good—not great—draft, teams may look to deal to improve through the trade route.


Not a whole lot of fresh info, but Chuck Swirsky's vote appears to go to Rose...


----------



## someone

ballerkingn said:


> FOR THE LAST TIME BRAND IS NOT COMING BACK TO CHICAGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hate reading trades with this guy in it.It's not going to happen ever he's going forever!!!!!


I second this. ELTON BRAND IS NOT COMING BACK. GIVE IT UP!


----------



## ballerkingn

I still have yet to hear a reason why we should pass up on beasly.This man was a beast all year and put up some of the best numbers ever by a fresh man,with way worse talent then any of the best the last few year.And he did it against double, and triple even 4 on 1's and still scored every night at least 20 pts.I don't know about you guy's,but that super star written all over it.Plus he supporting cast was terrible besides walker.Rose had some great players around him all season.I bet if you put beasly on that team and rose on the other beasly wins the champion and rose struggle.Because the lane will be shut down,beasly will just create his own lane.

Also i don't know about you guys,but we need someone we can throw the ball to and create easy baskets and score.He's a legit 4 he's not no tweener or whatever.The only reason why people say that is because he can shot the 3.6'9 235 to 240 is more then big enough now and he can still grow and get bigger and stronger.A player of this quality is not going to be available for us to get in a long time.Remember FA's don't like coming here and we don't have the talent to trade for a big time player like a beasly.Rose is great,but he won't cure our problems.In fact he will probably make things worse.Remember he can't shot,thus play off him and that will shut down the drive,thus no pt's thus anther bad season due to bad offense.

Beasly can create miss matches, draw a double and create open looks, and finish in the paint and can anchor our offense for years just like BRAND did when he was here.There you go,why trade for brand when u can draft him for nothing.


----------



## 4putt

Deke said:


> theres a big difference between a pg and a sg. especially ROSE and MJ.


you think!?

from what i've read on this thread, everyone thinks derrick rose (a 15ppg and 4 assist man with cdr and dorsey in the conference usa) is not only jason kidd (17ppg, 7reb and 9 assists in his last year in college) but practically mj himself... apparently because he put three games together in the tournament and is from chicago

good... enjoy!


----------



## someone

I'm not even going to vote in this thread because honestly either one I'd probably be fine with. Whichever guy Paxson thinks is BPA is fine by me. Neither of them is going to change the team alone, more needs to be done.


----------



## chifaninca

You're wrong Liek........

If we draft Rose, Paxson WILL make changes.

If we draft Beasley, his major trading chip (Hinrich) is off the table.

So, if by no other reason, the choice will have a profound impact.

I'd like to see Hinrich stay even with Rose, but Hinrich is our only real trading chip that can be paired with another good player to bring back a starting quality player.

I love Gordon, but he's so one dimensional, Isiah Thomas would need to be brought back as GM for a day.

Nocioni - Very nice piece, but that's it.

Tyrus Thomas - Underachiever
Drew Gooden - Mr consistent - not exciting
Joke Noah - Better entertainer, than Basketballer

Loul Deng - A quite strong number 2 player. - Could be included but opens a huge hole.

Thabo - Nive piece - Not exciting...other than presiding over Thabonation.


----------



## HB

I dont know what you guys saw in Rose this past year to make him think he is miles better than Beasley.


----------



## chifaninca

HB - I agree, he's not miles better. 

However, at his position, which IMHO is the most important position, Rose has top 5 skills. 

Beasley top 12 skills, if he improves his effort on D.

So, with the number one pick - I want the guy who's gonna be top 5 or better. I believe Rose can be that, I don't believe Beasley will. I do believe Beasley will be big for the Heat and thrive there.


----------



## Deke

WE NEED INSIDE SCORING TO WIN. period.


----------



## thebizkit69u

Deke said:


> Rose is getting so ****ing overrated right now it is insane.


I'm getting sick of your *****ing, you dont like Rose hey thats fine but bring up some decent reasons on why not to draft him over Beasley. Dont just feed me this garbage that "uh well we have Hinrich and Beasley will be a game changer at 6'8" Bring some real reasons.

How bout telling us why Rose isnt a good fit for the Bulls, talk about Basketball IQ, first step, jump shooting ability, passing ability, court vision, speed, athleticism, height and weight etc. 

Tell me that you dont like Rose because you dont think he can run a pro offense
Tell me you dont like Rose because you think that he just doesnt have the intangiables to be a great pro in the NBA. 

Stop giving me this lame excuse that we need inside scoring to win, do you really freaking think that Beasley is going to be scoring 30+ points a game in the post against grown men in the NBA?! Common dude get real. 

I felt strongly against drafting Tyrus Thomas last year but I brought the reasons why not to draft him and so far I'm dead on.


----------



## Deke

thebizkit69u said:


> I'm getting sick of your *****ing, you dont like Rose hey thats fine but bring up some decent reasons on why not to draft him over Beasley. Dont just feed me this garbage that "uh well we have Hinrich and Beasley will be a game changer at 6'8" Bring some real reasons.
> 
> How bout telling us why Rose isnt a good fit for the Bulls, talk about Basketball IQ, first step, jump shooting ability, passing ability, court vision, speed, athleticism, height and weight etc.
> 
> Tell me that you dont like Rose because you dont think he can run a pro offense
> Tell me you dont like Rose because you think that he just doesnt have the intangiables to be a great pro in the NBA.
> 
> Stop giving me this lame excuse that we need inside scoring to win, do you really freaking think that Beasley is going to be scoring 30+ points a game in the post against grown men in the NBA?! Common dude get real.
> 
> I felt strongly against drafting Tyrus Thomas last year but I brought the reasons why not to draft him and so far I'm dead on.


ive said it a hundred times. drew gooden is not good enough to be the best player in your frontcourt. frontcourt wins rings in the nba.


----------



## lgtwins

One thing I know about Beasley! He doesn't look like he is 6'10". More like 6'8" and he is a 4. Is he going to be really that good 4 in the NBA, overcoming the height handicap?

Plus, even with all those points he put up, Beasely didn't WOW me that much. On the contrary, Rose does WOW me quite often.

With No.1 pick, I would go with WOW factor. My pick is ROSE all the way.


----------



## Deke

lgtwins said:


> One thing I know about Beasley! He doesn't like he is 6'10". More like 6'8" and he is a 4. Is he going to be really that good 4 in the NBA, overcoming the height handicap?


he will grow. hes actually 6,9 which is fine. by the time he suits up he will probably be 6,10 at least.


----------



## ballerkingn

Deke said:


> WE NEED INSIDE SCORING TO WIN. period.


Thanks you i'm sure your on the beasly side with me.At least i know i have 1 on this site.


----------



## thebizkit69u

Deke said:


> ive said it a hundred times. drew gooden is not good enough to be the best player in your frontcourt. frontcourt wins rings in the nba.


But thats like saying oh well Beasley from the get go is a championship calibre 4, we dont know that for sure! 

Who's to say the Bulls wont make a run for J-Oneal or Carmelo Anthony?

I agree that you cant win an NBA championship with Drew Gooden as your best front court player but you also cant win an NBA title with Kirk Hinrich as your best guard!

Pau needs Kobe just as much as Kobe needs Pau to win a title.
Without Parker the Spurs would not be this damn good.
The Celtics have 3 great players to make up for a team that cant win on the road and with no real PG.
The Pistons have a great PG.


----------



## thebizkit69u

Deke said:


> he will grow. hes actually 6,9 which is fine. by the time he suits up he will probably be 6,10 at least.


What if Rose grows to 6'6, thats Jordan like.


----------



## ballerkingn

lgtwins said:


> One thing I know about Beasley! He doesn't like he is 6'10". More like 6'8" and he is a 4. Is he going to be really that good 4 in the NBA, overcoming the height handicap?
> 
> Plus, even with all those points he put up, Beasely didn't WOW me that much. On the contrary, Rose does WOW me quite often.
> 
> With No.1 pick, I would go with WOW factor. My pick is ROSE all the way.


6'9 245 is more then big enough in today's nba.i've ben wallace can play center here at 6'7 230-240 he will be fine at the 4 spot for say the next 10 years.


----------



## lgtwins

Again, Rose WOWed me, especially his NCAA tournament performance. Much like Wade WOWed me with his NCAA performance(and made me fall in love with him only to break my heart when Riley drafted him before us.)

I am not saying Rose WILL be Wade-like. But Rose has the same WOW factor like Wade did.

(Another factor is that I can't stand watching one more game where Kirk is our play-maker. I am basically done with Kirk and here is our chance to get top-caliver PG, a natural PG. IF we go with Beasley, that means we are stuck with Kirk as a PG. Duh!)


----------



## thebizkit69u

Heres another thing most people overlook, ROSE PLAYS DEFENSE! Just watch, Rose has shown the ability to shut his man down.


----------



## BullsBaller

Deke said:


> he will grow. hes actually 6,9 which is fine. by the time he suits up he will probably be 6,10 at least.


No more predictions about how much a person is going to grow. Nobody can truly know this. He has already spurted as much as he ever will, so stop trying to inflate his height to make him look like a true big man i.e. Duncan, Gasol, R. Wallace, etc... Michael Beasley is 6'8'', not 6'9'' and not 6'10''. I compared him to Paul Davis #24 for WSSU. Davis is listed at 6'9'' and Beasley looked shorter than him.


----------



## Deke

thebizkit69u said:


> But thats like saying oh well Beasley from the get go is a championship calibre 4, we dont know that for sure!
> 
> Who's to say the Bulls wont make a run for J-Oneal or Carmelo Anthony?
> 
> I agree that you cant win an NBA championship with Drew Gooden as your best front court player but you also cant win an NBA title with Kirk Hinrich as your best guard!
> 
> Pau needs Kobe just as much as Kobe needs Pau to win a title.
> Without Parker the Spurs would not be this damn good.
> The Celtics have 3 great players to make up for a team that cant win on the road and with no real PG.
> The Pistons have a great PG.


i dont know how good beasely will be but i KNOW he will be the best offensive big man in the central division even as a rookie. that will help us immensely towards reaching our goal.

if Luol Deng breaks out and becomes an allstar, and beasley is indeed the real deal a 25 ppg scorer(eventually, i would say about 17 ppg as a rookie which is VERY GOOD FOR US) i have no doubt we will eventually win the east even with hinrich at pg. PLENTY of teams have won rings with much worse pgs then kirk hinrich. but no team has won a ring with their best big man being a player of goodens caliber.

we took detroit to 6, almost 7 with no inside scorer. imagine if we had a 20+ ppg guy to take it to rasheed. and considering boston isnt getting any younger. i have no doubt within the next 3 years we'd make a finals appearance.

the ONLY way we can win a ring with rose in this decade or even advance to the finals is if paxon pulls off a great trade and id rather bet on the draft and get what we've desperately needed for 6 years then bank on getting a great player in a trade and if not be right back in the lottery next year instead of the ecf or semis.


----------



## darlets

Just my two cents. To me you try and draft the guy that has the highest chance of being a top 3 player in the league at some point in his career.

Championship teams seem to me to have a top 3 player in the league in the year they win.

Sometimes you get lucky and you draft a guy that is a MVP candidate year in and year out. But more realistically you have to aim to build around a guy and get your best team on the floor possible when his peaking.

You've really got to look long term, if this is our franchise player his going to be on the team for 10-12 years.

Both of these guys might be busts both might go on to be hall of famers, nobody knows.


----------



## narek

Local press on who to take:

Let's not forget Beasley 



> My first thought on seeing the Bulls land the No. 1 pick in the draft lottery was this: Oh, my god, the Bulls are going to get Michael Beasley.
> 
> It was only later that I learned, by reading the papers in town and listening to the radio and TV, that anyone who doesn't think the Bulls should take Derrick Rose would have to be an idiot or crazy. Or both.
> 
> Michael Beasley, who needs you?
> 
> ''He's a child prodigy,'' DePaul coach Jerry Wainwright, who worked with Beasley on U.S. junior teams the last two summers, told Sports Illustrated a few months ago. ''It's like somebody took the best parts and sewed them together: his hand-eye coordination, his running speed, his hands. He could palm a manhole cover.
> 
> ''He's really a point forward, not much different, other than in body length, from Kevin Garnett. They can both guard smaller guys and big guys, step away from the basket and pass and dribble.''
> 
> You would have to be a moron to want that on the Bulls, apparently.
> 
> I understand the appeal of Rose. He's great. He's a leader, and the Bulls don't have one of those. He's a Chicago kid and can immediately bring back some of the team's buzz. He's a point guard.
> 
> He would be a great pick.
> 
> I'll still take Beasley.






> What if the Cleveland Cavaliers, with the first pick of the 2003 draft, shocked the world by passing on hometown hero LeBron James and selected Carmelo Anthony? Or Darko Milicic?
> 
> The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame might have been pushed into Lake Erie by an angry mob.
> 
> There is no point trying to compare James to Memphis point guard Derrick Rose. But after the Bulls beat 1.7 percent odds to win the first pick of the NBA draft, there appears to be a clear consensus in Chicago that Rose, a native of the Englewood neighborhood on the South Side, is the best choice.
> 
> But there is another strong candidate for the top pick. Kansas State freshman Michael Beasley is just not as well-known to Chicago-area fans.
> 
> Bulls general manager John Paxson doesn't care about popular opinion and won't base his choice on a bulls.com fan vote.
> 
> "When people get on television and write, I know the game is to say, 'Today, the Bulls should do this,' " Paxson said Wednesday at the Berto Center. "Well, that's not what we do. We have until June 26 and we're going to go about the process thoroughly and hopefully make the right decision."
> 
> Bulls pick not foregone conclusion


----------



## narek

There's a chat with KC up at the Trib: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-080521bullschatondemand-html,0,2858649.htmlstory.

And he mentions trading for Jermaine O'Neal!!!!


----------



## narek

It'd be foolish for Bulls to pass on Rose



> There was a moment, a small moment, in the NCAA tournament this year that made the people who witnessed it literally gasp. A great, big ooooooohhhhh filled the stadium.
> 
> Derrick Rose seemed to come from nowhere for a rebound against Michigan State, and he arrived at the height of his jump so quickly you were left to wonder if some sort of air-speed record hadn't just fallen. Zero to 48 inches in half a second?
> 
> That might not be what you look for in a point guard, but it illustrated a few of the things the Memphis star and Chicago kid has going for him: Incredible power and high entertainment value.
> 
> Oh, and he's unselfish, a great passer and a scorer. Did we mention he can play defense? Yes, that too. And he's a leader and a winner too. He's sort of a souped-up Quinn Buckner, high praise indeed.
> 
> If the Bulls don't take this kid, they are absolutely out of their organizational minds.
> 
> By some convoluted equation that involved percentages and slide rules and crash-test dummies, the Bulls somehow went from having the ninth-best chance of winning the NBA draft lottery to actually winning it Tuesday night.
> 
> Don't ask me how.
> 
> They were guilty of crimes against basketball last season and by all rights deserved to be stuck with little more than a middling first-round pick. They had a 1.7 percent chance of winning the lottery.
> 
> Tuesday night came along, and those Ping-Pong balls bounced their way.
> 
> See? Crime does pay.
> 
> (And new Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni is still happy with his decision to snub the Bulls. Sure you are, Mike.)
> 
> So let the debate begin about whether the Bulls should take Rose or Kansas State's Michael Beasley, but it will be a lot of wasted breath. As talented as Beasley is, a guard of Rose's ability comes along once every 10 years or so. He's that good.


----------



## jnrjr79

Deke said:


> he will grow. hes actually 6,9 which is fine. by the time he suits up he will probably be 6,10 at least.


???


----------



## theyoungsrm

i think its fairly safe to say that once michael beasley career ends in Chicago, he will be 7'3


----------



## someone

theyoungsrm said:


> i think its fairly safe to say that once michael beasley career ends in Chicago, he will be 7'3


cleary. and Kirk will be twice as good as Kidd.


----------



## Smez86

I'm interested to know how many of you are making stuff up to sound knowledgable or if you've actually watched these two on a consistent basis.

I'm saying this as someone who doesn't watch college basketball. Can someone tell me why Rose didn't have much better numbers? Is it because of better surrounding talent?


----------



## thebizkit69u

Smez86 said:


> I'm interested to know how many of you are making stuff up to sound knowledgable or if you've actually watched these two on a consistent basis.
> 
> I'm saying this as someone who doesn't watch college basketball. Can someone tell me why Rose didn't have much better numbers? Is it because of better surrounding talent?


He played with very good talent around him, it was a complicated offense he ran, he wasnt the teams first scoring option and they really dint need Rose to average 20 ppg.


----------



## yodurk

Smez86 said:


> I'm interested to know how many of you are making stuff up to sound knowledgable or if you've actually watched these two on a consistent basis.
> 
> I'm saying this as someone who doesn't watch college basketball. Can someone tell me why Rose didn't have much better numbers? Is it because of better surrounding talent?


#1 reason was just playing time. He only played 29 min/game. 15 ppg, 4 reb, 4 ast is pretty good production in that time. I imagine if Calipari put him on the floor for 35-38 min per game, his numbers would be stellar.

But yes, Rose didn't have the ball in his hands as much as possible. Put him in Stephen Curry's role on Davidson, and I'm sure he would put up mindblowing stats. 

Also keep in mind that he did have an adjustment period the first half of the season, as many freshmen do. The bottom line is that he was dominating the opposition by season's end.


----------



## Dornado

I voted for Rose, but as the days pass I'm leaning more and more towards Beasley.


----------



## 4putt

thebizkit69u said:


> He played with very good talent around him, it was a complicated offense he ran, he wasnt the teams first scoring option and they really dint need Rose to average 20 ppg.


and, using that logic he was no where NEAR as good a player as "the hardest working player of all-time" and "face of college basketball" tyler hansbrough, because he was able to build big numbers AND be on a successful team... be thankful he didn't come out this year, because using your methodology... you would be comparing three players instead of two


----------



## The ROY

Look..

John Paxson is a legend in Chicago but his rep is starting to tarnish with some of the decisions he's making. Hmm, what better way to make up for all of his mishaps (Chandler, Wallace, TT/Aldridge etc.) then by drafting a Chicago basketball prodigy who's an exciting guard that HAPPENS to make teammates better.

Besides, once the workouts start, there's NO way Michael Beasley will provide the wow factor that Rose will in the open court, in front of Pax & Jerry.

If you're FOR drafting Beasley, you might as well let that dream go because it's NOT gonna happen LOL. Even Jerry Krause would of had to make THIS move.

This is by far the EASIEST decision John Paxson has ever had to make as a general manager. He has a golden opprotunity to add a homegrown franchise player and a possible top 10 player in a few years. Overall, it's a fairy tale story but it's one of the greatest in the history of our city when it comes to our pro sports.


----------



## 4putt

yodurk said:


> #1 reason was just playing time. He only played 29 min/game. 15 ppg, 4 reb, 4 ast is pretty good production in that time. I imagine if Calipari put him on the floor for 35-38 min per game, his numbers would be stellar.
> 
> But yes, Rose didn't have the ball in his hands as much as possible. Put him in Stephen Curry's role on Davidson, and I'm sure he would put up mindblowing stats.
> 
> Also keep in mind that he did have an adjustment period the first half of the season, as many freshmen do. The bottom line is that he was dominating the opposition by season's end.


if, if, if... honestly, you are drafting in the #1 spot based on IF? "IF rose played more minutes", "IF he was at davidson", "IF he improves his outside shot", "IF he grows an inch or two"

beasley, 18yrs old, first college game... 32 and 24 (an all-time big12 rebound record)... first game! (so much for adjustments) then averaged 30 and 14 for the first five games... then went almost the first month with more points scored than minutes played and with basically NO support and a singularly-focused defense each night

only one team all year played him straight up and that was baylor on the road... he went for 44 and 13 but ran out of gas and missed his last 8 shots ending up 14 for 25 in a loss 

with increased minutes in the nba he will have a very uncharacteristic rookie season for a 19yr old... and i predict even better numbers than his college 26 and 12


----------



## Deke

except our frontcourt would still suck ***. and we'd just have one more guard on the bench....


----------



## Hodges

Riley wants Rose bad. I'd pick Rose and trade him to Miami for Beasley + goodies.


----------



## Deke

Hodges said:


> Riley wants Rose bad. I'd pick Rose and trade him to Miami for Beasley + goodies.


yeah i wouldnt mind doing that except miami has no one we'd need if we are getting beasley.


----------



## ballerkingn

Beasly is the man hands down in my book still.This is my 2 day I once wanted rose,but i realized beasly is just to good to pass up.And you can always get a good pg in the draft.I think paxson history shows he can scout the guard position better then anyone else.With the gem in duhon,BG,and Kirk and even Tabo.None of them are bust or looked to as bust like maybe a tyrus or a few other selections in the 2nd round paxson made on forwards.So if i'm paxson take your 1 chance at a franchise big man because i'm sure you will never have a guy like this steering you in the face.Also why can pax get a guard else if he doesn't like what he already has with kirk and ben and tabo.Whats the point of having a pg if he has no 1 to pass to.As i look at our team there no one for Rose to pass to like what CP3 has in west,and Deron williams in boozer.Now you can add beasly,and maybe as i think it will, make Kirk a better pg,or whoever is our pg a better one.Plus we might acutally be able to give BG what he wants and start him along side kirk.Because we would need BG to help spread the floor for beasly.


----------



## Deke

ballerkingn said:


> Beasly is the man hands down in my book still.This is my 2 day I once wanted rose,but i realized beasly is just to good to pass up.And you can always get a good pg in the draft.I think paxson history shows he can scout the guard position better then anyone else.With the gem in duhon,BG,and Kirk and even Tabo.None of them are bust or looked to as bust like maybe a tyrus or a few other selections in the 2nd round paxson made on forwards.So if i'm paxson take your 1 chance at a franchise big man because i'm sure you will never have a guy like this steering you in the face.Also why can pax get a guard else if he doesn't like what he already has with kirk and ben and tabo.Whats the point of having a pg if he has no 1 to pass to.As i look at our team there no one for Rose to pass to like what CP3 has in west,and Deron williams in boozer.Now you can add beasly,and maybe as i think it will, make Kirk a better pg,or whoever is our pg a better one.Plus we might acutally be able to give BG what he wants and start him along side kirk.Because we would need BG to help spread the floor for beasly.


hopefully pax thinks like you. if so we will be seeing detroit in game 7 next year.


----------



## ballerkingn

Oh and i never heard of anyone say Rose is this big time leader.To me he comes off as anther deng or kirk in terms of leading by example,not with words.I think beasly would be way more vocal then either of them.


----------



## BDMcGee

ballerkingn said:


> Beasly is the man hands down in my book still.This is my 2 day I once wanted rose,but i realized beasly is just to good to pass up.And you can always get a good pg in the draft.I think paxson history shows he can scout the guard position better then anyone else.With the gem in duhon,BG,and Kirk and even Tabo.None of them are bust or looked to as bust like maybe a tyrus or a few other selections in the 2nd round paxson made on forwards.So if i'm paxson take your 1 chance at a franchise big man because i'm sure you will never have a guy like this steering you in the face.Also why can pax get a guard else if he doesn't like what he already has with kirk and ben and tabo.Whats the point of having a pg if he has no 1 to pass to.As i look at our team there no one for Rose to pass to like what CP3 has in west,and Deron williams in boozer.Now you can add beasly,and maybe as i think it will, make Kirk a better pg,or whoever is our pg a better one.Plus we might acutally be able to give BG what he wants and start him along side kirk.Because we would need BG to help spread the floor for beasly.


Totally agree, excellent post. Derrick Rose is a local product and will be very difficult to pass up, but the best choice for the Bulls is Michael Beasley. While Rose would be an upgrade over Kirk Hinrich, the Bulls have a much bigger need, which is a scoring big-man. Beasley would solve their big-man problems. Pairing him with Luol Deng and Ben Gordon would be scary, and make the Bulls lethal on offense when the three are on the floor together. You can't go wrong with Derrick Rose either, but if they took him, they would still have the need of a big-man that can consistently score. Ever since the Bulls traded Eddy Curry they've had that need and haven't been able to fill it. Tyrus Thomas looks like a bust and isn't the answer at power forward. Drew Gooden is solid, but is probably best suited to be a backup. That's why Beasley makes the most sense. The Bulls could instantly plug him into their lineup and likely see significant improvement right away. They could go either way, but I think Beasley makes the most sense for them and I expect him to be the pick.


----------



## chifaninca

Deke said:


> hopefully pax thinks like you. if so we will be seeing detroit in game 7 next year.


Watching game 7 on TV?

Adding either one of these guys should put us in the playoffs. Beasley's not gonna improve Kirk, Gordon, Deng, et all..............

We need more than just one of these guys.

With Rose, you can make other moves. With Beasley, you are sitting tight.


----------



## tweedy

Rose can come in and solve chemistry issues from the jump off. Beasley fills a need, but the Bulls need intangible help. In short, I would rather build a team around a steady hand and athletic anomaly at the 1 who plays hard for 48 minutes on both ends of the court than a 3/4 who scores and rebounds, but is a mystery in every other facet of the game. I know a lot of people are tired of talking about character, but Derrick Rose is more than just a "good guy." He wants to win, and he knows how to do it.

An editorial I wrote on the pick for anyone interested: Chicago Bulls: Top Pick Should Be No Question

I will say, I think Pax's deliberation is genuine and that he'll rightfully take an in-depth look at both guys.


----------



## someone

ballerkingn said:


> Oh and i never heard of anyone say Rose is this big time leader.To me he comes off as anther deng or kirk in terms of leading by example,not with words.I think beasly would be way more vocal then either of them.


dear god I hope not, hearing the way he talks


----------



## Electric Slim

ballerkingn said:


> Oh and i never heard of anyone say Rose is this big time leader.To me he comes off as anther deng or kirk in terms of leading by example,not with words.I think beasly would be way more vocal then either of them.


As in Kenyon Martin vocal? In that case, no thanks.

But a positive of Beasley is that we need mopre swingin' bravado out there. A little pride wouldn't hurt, but I have a feeling about Beasley that it's all about him. If we draft him I hope I'm wrong.


----------



## Deke

chifaninca said:


> Watching game 7 on TV?
> 
> Adding either one of these guys should put us in the playoffs. Beasley's not gonna improve Kirk, Gordon, Deng, et all..............
> 
> We need more than just one of these guys.
> 
> With Rose, you can make other moves. With Beasley, you are sitting tight.


we have no consistent offensive players. adding a guy who will give us 20 every night or close even as a rookie will bode extremely well for us.


----------



## ballerkingn

Beasly is the better fit.What is this belief that Rose can make others better.The players we have are those that work well with a person that can draw a double team.We had that in 04 and it is still our best season to date.I don't know about you,but Rose isn't going to be someone that can improve our offense.He probably make it worse because he can't shot.Just play off him dare him to shot,and we are done.Beasly opens the court for everyone,and i bet he will get others involved because he's that special and good to know to do that.


----------



## pac4eva5

Deke said:


> Rose is getting so ****ing overrated right now it is insane.


u claim to never watch him play. maybe u should stop talking...?


----------



## pac4eva5

Deke said:


> all the people i mentioned have made multiple all-nba teams man....
> 
> its not like i just picked my favorite pgs. basically every great pg of this gen hasnt won a ring.
> 
> rasheed won his ring as a pf.
> 
> you will never win a ring with the best pg of alltime and a weak frontcourt(EARLY 90s LAKERS)
> 
> but you can win a ring with great big men and a mediocre pg(early Spurs,3-peat Lakers)
> 
> no pg has ever won a ring in the modern nba with their best big man being drew gooden lol


of course not every great PG of this gen has won a ring! chauncey, parker, and wade own the last 5 rings! phil jackson teams are the exception because that is system where the PG plays a seperate position and the sg is allowed to dominate the ball. i dont see kobe and MJ on the current bulls team.

im glad u bring up rasheed, duncan, and robinson. those guys are 7 foot and dominate both the power forward ANNNNND center positions. lol at 6'8" beasley becoming a stud PF-C. its not his game. u build teams around centers and point guards...not a tweener SF/PF


----------



## HB

^He is listed as 6'9

Same height as David West and Carlos Boozer


----------



## Electric Slim

ballerkingn said:


> Beasly opens the court for everyone,and i bet he will get others involved because he's that special and good to know to do that.


Why do you think that? In college everaged 1 assist along with his 26 points.


----------



## King Joseus

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/basketball/heat/sfl-flspheatnote22sbmay22,0,2715020.story



> However, *a source familiar with the dealings said Wednesday that the Bulls have laid out a plan to take Beasley, with Heat President Pat Riley left with Rose.
> 
> The insider insisted, "No. 1 and No. 2 are booked and done."*
> 
> Riley was not available for comment Wednesday. He said Tuesday night that he would explore all options, including a trade of the No. 2 selection.
> 
> Paxson insisted no Bulls decision has been made, but did say Wednesday of Beasley, "He scores the ball as easily as any young player that went into the college game in a long, long time."
> 
> Beasley could wind up making his status clearer should he decline a pre-draft interview or workout with the Heat.


Interesting.


----------



## The ROY

^^

Pax already dismissed that report in today's radio interview with Chad Ford.

Said they need to do full background checks and workouts with both for they make a decision.


----------



## Wade County

Id be somewhat suprised if that was the case. Majority of signs point to Rose for Chicago, so that would be very interesting.


----------



## darlets

Paxson said his going to take his time and I believe that. Bring them in work them out. I think both of these guys because of the teams they were on can impress in areas outside of what the role they were asked to fill.

I think a big thing is how you rank them physically against other players at their position. 

Where do people think these guys rate compared to other drafts?


----------



## The Krakken

What a collection of Red Herrings. I don't even know where to start.



Deke said:


> all the people i mentioned have made multiple all-nba teams man....


What this has to do with anything is beyond me.



> its not like i just picked my favorite pgs. basically every great pg of this gen hasnt won a ring.


Chauncey Billups. Tony Parker. The other guys are young. Next!



> rasheed won his ring as a pf.


This is particularly amusing, since:

a) He was a better player in Portland, with a better cast, and couldn't get it done without a stud PG. Please don't say Stoudamire.

b) He came to Detroit and won his only championship WITH a stud PG (who as I recall was the series MVP).



> you will never win a ring with the best pg of alltime and a weak frontcourt(EARLY 90s LAKERS)


And yet, the Detroit pistons did just that. And they likewise beat the lakers twice.



> but you can win a ring with great big men and a mediocre pg(early Spurs,3-peat Lakers)


What a red herring! 

1) The lakers had TWO BONA-FIDE SUPERSTARS. IN fact, they had 2 of the 3 best players in the game for that run.

2 The spurs had NOT ONE Great Big man, but TWO. Both superstars in fact.



> no pg has ever won a ring in the modern nba with their best big man being drew gooden lol


ANd yet one has with their best big man being James Edwards.....or was it Bill Laimbeer?

Sheed is no HOFer so don't kid yourself.

Shaq was WAY WAY past his prime when Dwayne Wade CARRIED them to the finals just 2 years ago.

Lebron took his team all by himself.....with Drew Gooden on that team.


----------



## ballerkingn

All i want to say is i'm a beasly man for us to draft at 1.I don't want to here nothing against it later on if we draft him that i didn't want him.Or we don't draft and he does well you was on rose side.I like both don't get me wrong,but beasly is my pick at 1.


----------



## someone

I would love to get both, wouldn't that just be awesome? hehe.


----------



## Wade County

No...No it wouldnt


----------



## charlietyra

liekomgj4ck said:


> I would love to get both, wouldn't that just be awesome? hehe.



I don't see why that is not possible. Posters here have been talking about a consolidation trade the past couple of years. Why not send Kirk, Thomas (or Gooden) plus a future #1 to Miami? This is the Bulls' chance to make a big coup. I like both players (but I want Rose at #1).


----------



## pac4eva5

The Krakken said:


> Chauncey Billups. Tony Parker. The other guys are young. Next!


exactly, and dont forget wade carrying miami. thats 5 rings in a row won by a great PG. (3/5 mvps)

people need to quit comparing beasley to duncan. its not even close. it wont ever be close...


----------



## Wade County

Yeah...so Miami gets Hinrich, the underachieving Thomas or Gooden, and a future late 1st round pick because of Chicago's dominance, for Rose or Beasley...

Hell to the NO!

Be realistic.

Oh, and not once have I seen Beasley being compared to Tim Duncan. Theyre not even remotely the same. Beasley is some form of hybrid between Bosh,Melo,Amare and Jamison if anything.


----------



## darlets

Some good reading here.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Michael-Beasley-605/

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Derrick-Rose-1068/

U-19 World Championship: Early Rounds
July 20, 2007
If we talk about potential, one guy stands above the rest: Michael Beasley. A very well known NBA prospect by now, Beasley is living up to the hype with some excellent showings. He’s a super-athletic, explosive and extremely smooth player-- very strong, ripped, displaying a perfect basketball body. Not the longest guy around if we talk about a power forward, the position where he’s evolving here, he’s every inch of the 6-8 feet he’s listed here, and looks like a very legit 6-9 in shoes.

Beasley is doing his biggest damage in the paint, working off the ball, often continuing moves from the elbow or the baseline to finish with acrobatic layups. He’s a flat-out impressive finisher around the rim. He perfectly uses both hands, and his ability to hang in the air with the balance he shows there allows him to work to avoid almost every opponent’s attempt to challenge him. He’s just a majestic player evolving off the ground. Although not prolific in this area, he’s eventually putting the ball on the floor and taking advantage of his quickness and coordination to beat his matchups, often using very quick reverse moves and showing excellent footwork in the process. He can also hit his left-handed jumper with range out to the three-point line, although he’s struggling from the perimeter. Still, he shows a notable ability to create separation in turnaround fashion and shoot over his opponent.

It’s not only about scoring points. Beasley is not forcing his plays either. He shares the ball reasonably, doing nice defensive work while cleaning the boards, particularly on the offensive glass. Considering his star status at this level, he’s a pretty nice example of how things are working out for the US team.


----------



## pac4eva5

BG44 said:


> Yeah...so Miami gets Hinrich, the underachieving Thomas or Gooden, and a future late 1st round pick because of Chicago's dominance, for Rose or Beasley...
> 
> Hell to the NO!
> 
> Be realistic.
> 
> Oh, and not once have I seen Beasley being compared to Tim Duncan. Theyre not even remotely the same. Beasley is some form of hybrid between Bosh,Melo,Amare and Jamison if anything.


ive seen people say guys like duncan, rasheed, hakeem, and others are big guys that have led their teams to rings. thats nice, except beasley isnt on any of those guys' level. not close.

for the billionth time, u dont build ur team around a tweener SF/PF.


----------



## thebizkit69u

4putt said:


> and, using that logic he was no where NEAR as good a player as "the hardest working player of all-time" and "face of college basketball" tyler hansbrough, because he was able to build big numbers AND be on a successful team... be thankful he didn't come out this year, because using your methodology... you would be comparing three players instead of two


What the hell are you talking about?


----------



## Wade County

If hes on the Heat, we wouldnt be building around him.

Our team is built around Dwyane Wade, so Beasley would become the perfect second option.

Not once have I seen Beasley's game compared to a Center like Hakeem...


----------



## ballerkingn

pac4eva5 said:


> ive seen people say guys like duncan, rasheed, hakeem, and others are big guys that have led their teams to rings. thats nice, except beasley isnt on any of those guys' level. not close.
> 
> for the billionth time, u dont build ur team around a tweener SF/PF.


What! beasly is on sheeds level coming out hell even hakeem at this age.Didn't hakeem stay all 4 year.But not sure about duncan really,still he's way better then sheed coming out.Rasheed couldn't score in college and developed his game and was a stick figure.Beasly is neither,and HE IS A TRUE PF NOT A DAME TWEENER.if anything rose is the tweener as a pg/sg.


----------



## thebizkit69u

Lets look at it like this, Beasley has a set offensive game where he might be a 25-30 ppg scorer, Derrick Rose may not be as talented offensively but if this kid finds a consistant jump shot this guy is going to average 20-25ppg easily so when you think about it we are chosing between Beasley who WILL give you 20 ppg and 7-8 rebounds as a rookie but will struggle defensively and not get his teamates involved or choosing Rose who WILL average 10-15 ppg but will also give you 5-7 ast per game with 4-5 rebounds with great defense at his possition.

You cant go wrong with either pick but Rose comes with a more compleate all around game, potentially you might have a top 10 scorer in Rose because this kid can score when he wants too and when he doesnt his team usually still WINS! This guy is a winner above anything else. 

Call me crazy but this guy just makes any team he plays on better, this is a kid who will make crap like Noah and Thomas better, I saw some Jordan in him when this guy just single handedly beat Oak Hill Academy.


----------



## thebizkit69u

Let me just say this also, Beasley is the SAFE PICK. This guy will be able to score in the NBA.. Not many people take a PG #1 so Rose is sorta the more riskier player.


----------



## Mr. Hobbes

Tweeners are not safe picks. Beasley's inside game may not translate, then you have a rich man's Hakim Warrick. Yay? Nay.


----------



## darlets

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2008-Nike-Hoop-Summit-Official-Measurements,-plus-2007-Analysis/

Measurements (heights are with shoes)


Michael Beasley:
Height 6' 9 
Standing reach 9'1 
wingspan 7'0


Derrick Rose:
Height 6' 3 1/2 
Standing reach 8'3 
Wingspan 6'7


----------



## someone

Chan said:


> Tweeners are not safe picks. Beasley's inside game may not translate, then you have a rich man's Hakim Warrick. Yay? Nay.


I agree, Tweeners are NOT safe. Not pick is real safe though.


----------



## JPTurbo

Beasley reminds me of Antawn Jamison, a very nice player, but not worthy of the number 1 pick. 

Give me Rose who will be able to set up Deng's jumper nicely, provide alley-oops for Tyrus and Noah and finally raise the team's tempo. Then you have a nice group of players (Hinrich, Gordon S&T, Noc, Gooden's expiring contract) to either get a legit shooting guard or post presence. Rose, Deng, and SG/PF is a core that would contend and could eventually win some rings. 


Everyone who says we are set at guard and will be fine by just adding Beasley is delusional. He may become a great player but the team as currently composed is still very flawed and big moves would need to be made. We would probably enjoy making the playoffs every year but never contend. 

Any guard combo we can currently throw out there sucks. 

Hinrich/Gordon- no playmaker, tiny, inconsistent

Hinrich/Thabo- ample size, no pure point, no consistent outside shot

Hinrich/Hughes- ample size, but two chuckers both with limited vision

Gordon/Hughes- too easy

Rose 
Thabo 
Deng 
Tyrus
Noah

That is your envisioned lineup going into the year. Gives you a great, young core.


----------



## Deke

The Krakken said:


> What a collection of Red Herrings. I don't even know where to start.
> 
> 
> 
> What this has to do with anything is beyond me.
> 
> 
> 
> Chauncey Billups. Tony Parker. The other guys are young. Next!
> 
> 
> 
> This is particularly amusing, since:
> 
> a) He was a better player in Portland, with a better cast, and couldn't get it done without a stud PG. Please don't say Stoudamire.
> 
> b) He came to Detroit and won his only championship WITH a stud PG (who as I recall was the series MVP).
> 
> 
> 
> And yet, the Detroit pistons did just that. And they likewise beat the lakers twice.
> 
> 
> 
> What a red herring!
> 
> 1) The lakers had TWO BONA-FIDE SUPERSTARS. IN fact, they had 2 of the 3 best players in the game for that run.
> 
> 2 The spurs had NOT ONE Great Big man, but TWO. Both superstars in fact.
> 
> 
> 
> ANd yet one has with their best big man being James Edwards.....or was it Bill Laimbeer?
> 
> Sheed is no HOFer so don't kid yourself.
> 
> Shaq was WAY WAY past his prime when Dwayne Wade CARRIED them to the finals just 2 years ago.
> 
> Lebron took his team all by himself.....with Drew Gooden on that team.


1. well you said my pgs i listed without rings were bad choices but they were just about every pg currently in the nba whose made an allstar game and they DONT have a championships. there is only 1 allstar pg in the playoffs final 4 in fact.

2.Stoudemire in portland was a good pg. is 13/6/3 not amazing enough for you? he wasnt an allstar but he was a good player. and if you need an allstar pg why is chauncey the only allstar pg left in the playoffs?

that team was also STACKED on offense so its not like he was going to score 20 ppg like he did in toronto.

until they got rasheed they never won a ring though. they had chauncey and LOST.

ok they had 2 superstars on the lakers. that doesnt change the fact your saying an average pg cant win a ring.

David Robinson was NOT a superstar anymore when Duncan got to san Antonio...

They had Laimbeer and Rodman on that pistons squad. that is a GREAT frontcourt. what the hell are you talking about?

If Wade carried shaq to the finals then how come he hasnt gotten to the finals without shaq? hell his first year without shaq he got the worst record in the nba even! plus wades not a pg so why bring him up?

Lebron didnt win the ring though. he just beat two mediocre teams then exploded on Detroit. and hes NOT A PG. so why the hell are you bringing up guys who arent pgs when your talking about only great pgs can win rings? hell lebron is closer to playing beasleys position then he is rose.


----------



## ballerkingn

You people that say Rose is going to all of a sudden make our players like deng and tyrus and noah better make me laugh.Although that might be true,i really doubt it.Why because we had kirk and duhon and even BG at times passing these guys the ball and they still missed and we were still the worst fg% team in the nba.What the real difference if kirk is passing the ball to Rose.Its the same ball isn't it,its the same open looks deng and tyrus and noah and drew where missing all year right.Whats the difference,what rose has a magic ball or pass that will make people make all there shots.If so draft him asap.

But here's something how about if someone else takes the shot.Someone who's actually going to go inside and bang and score on the inside.He might not make all of his shot's,but the pct is better he will.Being that it's not a LONG jumper.With Rose we will still have a poor offense,and i don't know about you we where terrible.Not because who was passing the ball,but who was shooting and where they where shooting it from.Beasly can finally give us that inside scoring and can make easy baskets something we haven't seen for years.Until someone tells me something i can argue BEASLY IS MY PICK HANDS DOWN.


----------



## Dornado

how am I supposed to choose between this:

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<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/s7k8Kzdkj00&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/s7k8Kzdkj00&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

and this?

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OtZd2koUMrk&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OtZd2koUMrk&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4MvthSlmI_M&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4MvthSlmI_M&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>


----------



## Hodges

^I'm waiting for Hollinger to publish his collegiate ratings . 

Last year, he (correctly) predicted that Hawes would be a bust.


----------



## Dornado

Hodges said:


> ^I'm waiting for Hollinger to publish his collegiate ratings .
> 
> Last year, he (correctly) predicted that Hawes would be a bust.


Not only is it too early to call Spencer Hawes a bust (19 year old 7 footers need a little time), but I'm not sure predicting his failure would exactly qualify Hollinger's ratings as fool proof.


----------



## Hodges

I posted this last year:








I'm not saying it's foolproof, I'm saying it seems like a useful tool.


----------



## Stay Blazed

Rose can't shoot or defend. Beasley is the easy choice and will lead the Bulls to many finals and will retire with more Championships than Lebron. PG's simply don't win championships. The last PG to do it was Magic. Rose isn't even close to as good a prospect as Paul let alone Magic. Beasley will be the alpha scorer the Bulls have lacked since Jordan, but he's also an elite rebounder and plays very well without the ball. 

People who say the Bulls should take him bcause he's a hometown kid should be banned for stupidity. This is basketball not some retarded feel good emotional cry it out story competition. And anyway hometown players usually don't work out. 

I'd just like to remind everybody that Rose ended his career by being historically posterized on the game winning shot. Rose is closer to Devin Harris than Chris Paul.

With Beasley the Bulls would be a top 3 team in the east within two seasons. Its going to take Rose at least two season just to learn the position and 5-10 years to learn how to shoot, if he ever does. Jason Kidd never learned to shoot and because of that he was never able to win a Championship. 

You do not need a super elite point to win Championships in the NBA, you just need a decent one. Look at the points for the Championship teams recently. They were all simply role players on their team. PG's are always just a piece of a Championship they have rarely won a Championship. Look at all the elite points in the NBA and then count their combined 0 Championships.


----------



## thebizkit69u

> Rose can't shoot or defend.


Ugh, you should be banned for stupidity. Rose is the far superior defender and Rose can shoot just not at the high percentage that Beasley does. 

You obviously have no idea why most Bulls fans want Rose, it has nothing to do with the fact that hes from Chicago this guy is a special talent at the PG possition hes big, ultra fast, a leader and can pretty much do it all. Nobody is knocking Beasley here but you can find a high scoring SF/PF, heck I hear Carmelo Anthony is on the Block.


----------



## Dornado

Stay Blazed said:


> Rose can't shoot *or defend.* Beasley is the easy choice and will lead the Bulls to many finals and will retire with more Championships than Lebron. *PG's simply don't win championships. The last PG to do it was Magic.* Rose isn't even close to as good a prospect as Paul let alone Magic. Beasley will be the alpha scorer the Bulls have lacked since Jordan, but he's also an elite rebounder and plays very well without the ball.
> 
> People who say the Bulls should take him bcause he's a hometown kid should be banned for stupidity. This is basketball not some retarded feel good emotional cry it out story competition. *And anyway hometown players usually don't work out. *
> 
> I'd just like to remind everybody that Rose ended his career by being historically posterized on the game winning shot. Rose is closer to Devin Harris than Chris Paul.
> 
> With Beasley the Bulls would be a top 3 team in the east within two seasons. Its going to take Rose at least two season just to learn the position.


- I always see Rose praised for his defense... what makes you think he can't defend?

- Actually, the last PG to do it was Isiah Thomas, and he did it back-to-back just like Magic. (and arguably Chauncey Billups)

- Lebron seems to be doing alright in his home town.


----------



## Deke

Dornado said:


> - I always see Rose praised for his defense... what makes you think he can't defend?
> 
> - Actually, the last PG to do it was Isiah Thomas, and he did it back-to-back just like Magic. (and arguably Chauncey Billups)
> 
> - Lebron seems to be doing alright in his home town.


i think magic gets too much credit for that lakers squad. sure he was their best player but he was more of a catalyst then the sole proprietor. The team he landed on was already a contender and one small piece from being immortal. 

in fact i believe if they would have never drafted magic they would have still won at least one ring since before magic they had a great defensive SG who was still developing and norm nixon was already a GREAT PG(not magic good but a good enough to win a championship with him and cooper emerging as an elite backcourt. plus they didnt have byron scott,mcadoo,or worthy pre magic.

that team was destined to win a ring with or without magic. of course i still think magic is the best pg ever. i just think that team was so good that they would win a ring either way. they wouldnt have won 5 titles without magic but AT LEAST 1.


----------



## Stay Blazed

Dornado said:


> - I always see Rose praised for his defense... what makes you think he can't defend?


If Rose could defend he would have won the National Championship, but he was historically posterized. Oh that and he choked big time. 



> - Actually, the last PG to do it was Isiah Thomas, and he did it back-to-back just like Magic. (and arguably Chauncey Billups)


So not counting Billups would that make three PG's in the history of the game to lead their team to an NBA Championship? My point remains strong. 



> - Lebron seems to be doing alright in his home town.


Well if you'd be content with historical choke jobs and losing in the playoffs like Lebron has done I think you'll be perfectly happy with Rose. One player does not dispute my point. I said usually.


----------



## someone

Stay Blazed said:


> Rose can't shoot or defend.


----------



## Dornado

Deke said:


> i think magic gets too much credit for that lakers squad. sure he was their best player but he was more of a catalyst then the sole proprietor. The team he landed on was already a contender and one small piece from being immortal.
> 
> in fact i believe if they would have never drafted magic they would have still won at least one ring since before magic they had a great defensive SG who was still developing and norm nixon was already a GREAT PG(not magic good but a good enough to win a championship with him and cooper emerging as an elite backcourt. plus they didnt have byron scott,mcadoo,or worthy pre magic.
> 
> that team was destined to win a ring with or without magic. of course i still think magic is the best pg ever. i just think that team was so good that they would win a ring either way. they wouldnt have won 5 titles without magic but AT LEAST 1.


You're the same kid that was telling me Kareem played power forward. 

Sorry, Magic was the heart and soul of the showtime lakers, I watched him play, he was the truth. He and Isiah were both PGs who led their teams to multiple championships... it isn't really disputable.


----------



## Dornado

Stay Blazed said:


> If Rose could defend he would have won the National Championship, but he was historically posterized. Oh that and he choked big time.
> 
> 
> 
> So not counting Billups would that make three PG's in the history of the game to lead their team to an NBA Championship? My point remains strong.
> 
> 
> 
> Well if you'd be content with historical choke jobs and losing in the playoffs like Lebron has done I think you'll be perfectly happy with Rose. One player does not dispute my point. I said usually.


I remember the game winner in the championship game being a pretty tough shot... and one play doesn't really tell you whether or not someone was a good defender. Reggie Miller nailed a playoff game winner over MJ... doesn't mean MJ couldn't play defense.


----------



## kflo

Deke said:


> i think magic gets too much credit for that lakers squad. sure he was their best player but he was more of a catalyst then the sole proprietor. The team he landed on was already a contender and one small piece from being immortal.
> 
> in fact i believe if they would have never drafted magic they would have still won at least one ring since before magic they had a great defensive SG who was still developing and norm nixon was already a GREAT PG(not magic good but a good enough to win a championship with him and cooper emerging as an elite backcourt. plus they didnt have byron scott,mcadoo,or worthy pre magic.
> 
> that team was destined to win a ring with or without magic. of course i still think magic is the best pg ever. i just think that team was so good that they would win a ring either way. they wouldnt have won 5 titles without magic but AT LEAST 1.


think about who they beat in the finals and how many games it took them to win, and then tell me why you would think removing magic from the equation would have still resulted in titles?


----------



## HB

Chan said:


> Tweeners are not safe picks. Beasley's inside game may not translate, then you have a rich man's Hakim Warrick. Yay? Nay.


Michael Beasley is a PF


----------



## HB

Just look at the conference finals. The teams playing right now all have solid low post options. What player on the Bulls roster currently can create any low post offense efficiently?


----------



## Dornado

HB said:


> Just look at the conference finals. The teams playing right now all have solid low post options. What player on the Bulls roster currently can create any low post offense efficiently?


Is Beasley really a "low post" option? Tim Duncan, Pau Gasol, Kevin Garnett and Rasheed Wallace can all play with their backs to the basket. Can Beasley?


----------



## HB

From what I have seen of him yes. He does have a back to the basket game. You guys want to bring up height, but David West and Carlos Boozer are listed as the same height as him and are doing quite well in the league.


----------



## thebizkit69u

Stay Blazed said:


> If Rose could defend he would have won the National Championship, but he was historically posterized. Oh that and he choked big time.


<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BsCrHKx-Lq4&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BsCrHKx-Lq4&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

He missed on free throw made the second if he choked big time he would have missed both, Memphis with a 3 point lead, Collins tries to drive on Rose but loses control (Collins is Rose's man), Collins barely tips it to Chalmers who had Antonio Anderson on, Anderson lost Chalmers and Rose comming off getting hurt by Collins still is able to go hard after Chalmers and almost blocks his shot, Chalmers just hit one lucky *** Reggie Miller esque 3.


----------



## yodurk

Stay Blazed said:


> So not counting Billups would that make three PG's in the history of the game to lead their team to an NBA Championship? *My point remains strong. *


No it doesn't. The point you're missing is that championship teams come in all shapes and sizes. There is no precise formula for winning a title. This isn't physics class. 

In reality, the best player(s) on title teams have been, and continue to be, a variety of positions. Billups, Isiah Thomas, and Magic were PG's. Michael Jordan was a SG. Shaq & Hakeem were centers. Duncan is a PF. Alot of "almost-title" teams have a variety of position players as well. 

My recommendation: Stop thinking of this in terms of positions. Ask this question -- what is the one thing that ALL title teams have in common? I can tell you for certain it's not what position their best player plays (in fact the more I think about that, the more ridiculous of an answer it sounds). Bottom line, they all do these things: (a) Ultra-Competitive attitude, as in a whole different level of competitiveness that other teams don't have; (b) Deep talent -- where you have 1 or 2 "best" players but alot of other well-rounded versatile talent; and (b) Chemistry, where they know their teammates well and how to function together.

Beasley & Rose both fit the talent criteria. But Paxson needs to look hard at the other qualities -- who has the more competitive attitude, and who is more conducive to team chemistry? Given the talent of both guys, he really shouldn't even be thinking about what position they play. Worry about that later and tweak your roster accordingly.


----------



## jnrjr79

Stay Blazed said:


> Rose can't shoot or defend.



Rose is an excellent defender.


----------



## Deke

Dornado said:


> You're the same kid that was telling me Kareem played power forward.
> 
> Sorry, Magic was the heart and soul of the showtime lakers, I watched him play, he was the truth. He and Isiah were both PGs who led their teams to multiple championships... it isn't really disputable.


Kareem did play PF on occasion. not a fulltime pf but in certain matchups.

do you know who norm nixon is? he was a great pg. 

they were already a contender and this is BEFORE mcadoo,worthy, and byron scott.

your telling me

pg-Norm Nixon Once a 17/8 player
sg-Michael Cooper DPOY, 5 time defensive 1st team, 8 time defensive team
SF-Byron Scott
PF-James Worthy
C-Kareem Abdul Jabbar

couldnt win 1 RING?!

and if magic was so valuable how come they never won a ring after kareem retired and michael cooper left?


----------



## Stay Blazed

Dornado said:


> Is Beasley really a "low post" option? Tim Duncan, Pau Gasol, Kevin Garnett and Rasheed Wallace can all play with their backs to the basket. Can Beasley?


YES. And he can score down low with both hands. 



HB said:


> From what I have seen of him yes. He does have a back to the basket game. You guys want to bring up height, but David West and Carlos Boozer are listed as the same height as him and are doing quite well in the league.


Barkley and Malone both did pretty well at PF as well despite their height.

I project Beasley as a kind of more skilled and athletic Super Barkley. Only I don't see Beasley letting his body go like Chuck did.


----------



## Dornado

Deke said:


> Kareem did play PF on occasion. not a fulltime pf but in certain matchups.
> 
> do you know who norm nixon is? he was a great pg.
> 
> they were already a contender and this is BEFORE mcadoo,worthy, and byron scott.
> 
> your telling me
> 
> pg-Norm Nixon Once a 17/8 player
> sg-Michael Cooper DPOY, 5 time defensive 1st team, 8 time defensive team
> SF-Byron Scott
> PF-James Worthy
> C-Kareem Abdul Jabbar
> 
> couldnt win 1 RING?!
> 
> and if magic was so valuable how come they never won a ring after kareem retired and michael cooper left?


They went from a 47 win team to a 60 win team Magic's rookie season. Kareem never played power forward. And Byron Scott would never play small foward... (he's 6'3").


----------



## thebizkit69u

> I project Beasley as a kind of more skilled and athletic Super Barkley.


Dude what the hell are you talking about, Barkley IMO is one of the greatest PF's of all time if not the BEST and still is probably the most athletic PF ever, this man was unbelieveable when he was young, Beasley could not dunk like Barkley or play defense like Barkley, sorry try again.

Now if you want to say Beasley will be a more athletic version of Malone then yeah I agree.


----------



## charlietyra

thebizkit69u said:


> Dude what the hell are you talking about, Barkley IMO is one of the greatest PF's of all time if not the BEST and still is probably the most athletic PF ever, this man was unbelieveable when he was young, Beasley could not dunk like Barkley or play defense like Barkley, sorry try again.
> 
> Now if you want to say Beasley will be a more athletic version of Malone then yeah I agree.


You're my guy biskit but I have to disagree with you on this. Barkley was an average defender at best. 

What made Barkley special was his 1)unbelievable explosiveness; 2)physical toughness/intimidation; 3)ability to hit the outside J as well as drive to the basket; 4)ball handling ability. Also, he had one of the great nicknames of all-time- "the round mound of rebound." What is really amazing is that he was only about 6'5". 

FWIW, as a TV commentator I generally think he is worthless. He is usually wrong. I think his appeal is that he acts like a buffoon most of the time and the audiences eat this up. If you want real analysis listen to Greg Anthony and Tim Legler.


----------



## Deke

Dornado said:


> They went from a 47 win team to a 60 win team Magic's rookie season. Kareem never played power forward. And Byron Scott would never play small foward... (he's 6'3").


ok i said myself magic is the best pg of alltime but that doesnt change the fact they could win a ring without him.

when they were a 47 win team they didnt have mcadoo,worthy, or scott yet and i believe cooper was a rookie.

and it would be 

nixon
scott
cooper
worthy 
kareem

how about this if i can FIND footage of kareem playing as a pf for a single second you paypal me 50 bucks?

jordan was a sg but he played as a pg and sf before. thats what i am saying.

kareem played most of his career at center but its not unheard of for him to play at pf as well.


----------



## zomig

I seem to be in the minority in this opinion, but I don't think the Bulls could go wrong with either player. Either way, they would have to make a consolidation trade or two to clear up a logjam.


----------



## yodurk

charlietyra said:


> You're my guy biskit but I have to disagree with you on this. Barkley was an average defender at best.
> 
> What made Barkley special was his 1)unbelievable explosiveness; 2)physical toughness/intimidation; 3)ability to hit the outside J as well as drive to the basket; 4)ball handling ability. Also, he had one of the great nicknames of all-time- "the round mound of rebound." What is really amazing is that he was only about 6'5".
> 
> FWIW, as a TV commentator I generally think he is worthless. He is usually wrong. I think his appeal is that he acts like a buffoon most of the time and the audiences eat this up. If you want real analysis listen to Greg Anthony and Tim Legler.


Good points on Barkley. He was definitely more a rebounder than a defender. Definitely one of the NBA's all-time freaks, as you don't find many chunky 6'5 guys who can dominate at PF. Especially with how good he still was at age 35. 

And yeah, he's worn on me as a commentator; funny when he first started back in '01 or whenver, but just annoys me now. Plus he obviously hates the Bulls which doesn't help. Anthony is solid, but Legler is a punk (he also hates the Bulls). Ditto w/ Jon Barry (being a punk, I mean). Sorry for the OT ramblings but it's Friday...


----------



## yodurk

zomig said:


> I seem to be in the minority in this opinion, but I don't think the Bulls could go wrong with either player. Either way, they would have to make a consolidation trade or two to clear up a logjam.


Despite my "vote for Rose" stance, I actually 100% agree with you. Let's say Rose didn't declare for the draft, I'd be equally ecstatic in taking Beasley. I bet many others would as well. I find it strange how guys like Rosenblum (of the Tribune) are writing crap like, "if Paxson makes the wrong pick, he won't have a job 2 yrs from now." That's just idiotic to me. The beauty of this pick is that you have 2 clear cut choices who both appear to be superstar material. I can't fault Paxson for choosing either. There's really not much pressure on him. 

Now, the coaching hire is a whole different can of worms...


----------



## ballerkingn

Beasly is still the person i want.I really hope paxson takes him,because if he doesn't and beasly becomes what i expect which is a double double guy in his rookie year on.And we still are 1 of the leagues worst offensive teams i'm going to really be mad,and un interested in the season.Why because chances are we are going to lose just like last year.And have to get lucky again and get a high draft pick and hope we get a low post player.UNLESS!!! Somehow paxson gets some type of deal done for a post player,but who's available and out there right now.Brand yeah right,plus he's alway hurt it seems.Also better suited for a half court team,melo(we already have deng who's cheaper and maybe will just as good overall).I mean though it's easier to trade for anther guard or keep the 1s we have in that they will improve with the improved inside game.I just think its a no brainier right now,unless we are going to rebuild,because thats what will have to happen if we take Rose.


----------



## yodurk

ballerkingn said:


> Beasly is still the person i want.I really hope paxson takes him,because if he doesn't and beasly becomes what i expect which is a double double guy in his rookie year on.And we still are 1 of the leagues worst offensive teams i'm going to really be mad,and un interested in the season.Why because chances are we are going to lose just like last year.And have to get lucky again and get a high draft pick and hope we get a low post player.UNLESS!!! Somehow paxson gets some type of deal done for a post player,but who's available and out there right now.Brand yeah right,plus he's alway hurt it seems.Also better suited for a half court team,melo(we already have deng who's cheaper and maybe will just as good overall).I mean though it's easier to trade for anther guard or keep the 1s we have in that they will improve with the improved inside game.I just think its a no brainier right now,unless we are going to rebuild,because thats what will have to happen if we take Rose.


It is very possible to be a good offensive team without having a post scorer. A team that can grab offensive rebounds (which we already have), run fast breaks (which Rose would do), and shoot jump shots (which I hope we would keep Gordon/Deng for) can easily average 100+ ppg.


----------



## ballerkingn

yodurk said:


> It is very possible to be a good offensive team without having a post scorer. A team that can grab offensive rebounds (which we already have), run fast breaks (which Rose would do), and shoot jump shots (which I hope we would keep Gordon/Deng for) can easily average 100+ ppg.


If we live by that logic why where we the WORST OFFENSIVE TEAM last year.Kirk game if you watched him the past 5 year is he likes to push the ball.Whats the real difference,and how many of those teams win championships.Its fun in the regular season,but in the post season the game slows down and you need a half court game to balance everything out.If we take rose we might not even sniff the playoffs next season 1,and if we don't we won't be able to run like your thinking.Then when we are forced to go half court your going to depend on gooden and noah and tyrus for buckets in the paint.Why do that when you could have beasly just makes more sense to me.I'm not completely down on kirk just yet,and not down on ben at all.Anyway unless again we make some type of a move for a legit post threat we can depend on for 20 pts per game or close to that,beasly should be the pick.


----------



## kflo

Deke said:


> ok i said myself magic is the best pg of alltime but that doesnt change the fact they could win a ring without him.
> 
> when they were a 47 win team they didnt have mcadoo,worthy, or scott yet and i believe cooper was a rookie.
> 
> and it would be
> 
> nixon
> scott
> cooper
> worthy
> kareem
> 
> how about this if i can FIND footage of kareem playing as a pf for a single second you paypal me 50 bucks?
> 
> jordan was a sg but he played as a pg and sf before. thats what i am saying.
> 
> kareem played most of his career at center but its not unheard of for him to play at pf as well.



they traded nixon to get scott. that's a god awful rebounding team. and again, which team does that team beat to win 1 title?


----------



## Dornado

Deke said:


> Kareem did play PF on occasion. not a fulltime pf but in certain matchups.


And honestly, I'm curious where you got this idea. Who was playing center when Kareem was playing the 4? It just didn't happen...


----------



## King Joseus

ballerkingn said:


> If we live by that logic why where we the WORST OFFENSIVE TEAM last year.Kirk game if you watched him the past 5 year is he likes to push the ball.Whats the real difference,and how many of those teams win championships.Its fun in the regular season,but in the post season the game slows down and you need a half court game to balance everything out.If we take rose we might not even sniff the playoffs next season 1,and if we don't we won't be able to run like your thinking.Then when we are forced to go half court your going to depend on gooden and noah and tyrus for buckets in the paint.Why do that when you could have beasly just makes more sense to me.I'm not completely down on kirk just yet,and not down on ben at all.Anyway unless again we make some type of a move for a legit post threat we can depend on for 20 pts per game or close to that,beasly should be the pick.


Saying that we were the worst offensive team is a little bit off. We had the lowest FG% as a team, yes, but we were 18th in PPG, 11th in APG, 4th in ORPG, 14th in 3FG% - hardly the worst.

To flat out state that we were the worst offensive team in the league last year is nonsense. Were we world beaters? No.

While I am in the draft Rose camp, I still acknowledge that drafting Beasley would be very good for us. There is still no clear cut way of determining whether Rose's playmaking and distribution or Beasley's scoring talents would better solve our offensive woes. I trust that Pax will take the time to learn which player is the best fit and have faith in his ability to draft the right player.


----------



## ballerkingn

King Joseus said:


> Saying that we were the worst offensive team is a little bit off. We had the lowest FG% as a team, yes, but we were 18th in PPG, 11th in APG, 4th in ORPG, 14th in 3FG% - hardly the worst.
> 
> To flat out state that we were the worst offensive team in the league last year is nonsense. Were we world beaters? No.
> 
> While I am in the draft Rose camp, I still acknowledge that drafting Beasley would be very good for us. There is still no clear cut way of determining whether Rose's playmaking and distribution or Beasley's scoring talents would better solve our offensive woes. I trust that Pax will take the time to learn which player is the best fit and have faith in his ability to draft the right player.


Do you understand that what your typing is making my point for me.If we are a poor pct team the worst in fact.That must mean we take a lot of jumpers because high pct teams have inside scoring,or high pct shots(dunks,lay-up) things we have none of unless we catch a team napping.Also if we shot well from 3 and pass well why add anther guard,wouldn't you want to then help keep that consistent and improve the low fg% by ahh getting more high pct baskets in the paint.Just a thought,and thanks for the help.


----------



## King Joseus

ballerkingn said:


> Do you understand that what your typing is making my point for me.If we are a poor pct team the worst in fact.That must mean we take a lot of jumpers because high pct teams have inside scoring,or high pct shots(dunks,lay-up) things we have none of unless we catch a team napping.Also if we shot well from 3 and pass well why add anther guard,wouldn't you want to then help keep that consistent and improve the low fg% by ahh getting more high pct baskets in the paint.Just a thought,and thanks for the help.


Your statement was that we were the worst offensive team in the league last year. That statement is false.

High percentage shots include layups and dunks in addition to traditional post moves. Rose brings more of one while Beasley brings more of the other.

It seems as if you're deadset on picking Beasley and unwilling to believe that he wouldn't single-handedly fix our offensive woes.


----------



## Good Hope

ballerkingn said:


> Do you understand that what your typing is making my point for me.If we are a poor pct team the worst in fact.That must mean we take a lot of jumpers because high pct teams have inside scoring,or high pct shots(dunks,lay-up) things we have none of unless we catch a team napping.Also if we shot well from 3 and pass well why add anther guard,wouldn't you want to then help keep that consistent and improve the low fg% by ahh getting more high pct baskets in the paint.Just a thought,and thanks for the help.


I think the point Joseus is trying to make is that our offense has a lot of potential, but it needs organization, drive and energy. Our players lost confidence in one another, and became too dependent on schemes and set plays which other teams eventually figured out how to solve. 

Then we were stuck, because there was no one, other than Ben, with the creativity to make something work. And Ben's creativity is generally limited to shots for himself, when he's hot. 

What people are excited about with Rose is the amount of creativity that he will bring to the floor in executing an offense and then in creating opportunities for everyone as the play evolves. They see this is as the way for our team, especially our current bigs, to get involved and for everyone to get back on that upward trajectory they had seemed to be on before last year. 

What Paul, Williams, Nash and TMac were able to do for the players around them is what many believe Rose will be able to do for the Bulls. 

Of course, it's fair to say that Beasley's creativity as a scorer will have a similar kind of impact, and open up opportunities for shooters like Nocioni, Gordon, Deng and Hinrich. I think that's true, and that's why Pax is going to take his time. 

But it is foolish to say that Rose won't help the offense. He will provide a great boost to the offensive production of this team, even as it stands without other corollary moves.


----------



## HB

How does Rose improve your offense when the players around him are still all mostly jumpshooters?


----------



## ballerkingn

King Joseus said:


> Your statement was that we were the worst offensive team in the league last year. That statement is false.
> 
> High percentage shots include layups and dunks in addition to traditional post moves. Rose brings more of one while Beasley brings more of the other.
> 
> It seems as if you're deadset on picking Beasley and unwilling to believe that he wouldn't single-handedly fix our offensive woes.


You know why because who is does he have that is really going to improve.You can do but so much for a guy like tyrus and Noah.Plus by the time they become good or decent nba players we will have spent 2 lottery picks in the draft not just this 1. I just don't believe a pg can impact our team as greatly as you.And i think our problem are due to no go-scorer,although our pg play is terrible.But thats again due to no one to pass to that can score. Like didn't duhon almost get a triple double 1 game i think again GS and couldn't i think get the assist because no one could score and he missed it. But he did score a career high 30 something,and we won. unless this guy is some type of d-wade type,then he's not a pure pg then.And if thats what its going to take for us to win every game with him,your going to be disappointed i think we all are.

I rather just have the go to scorer someone you can pencil in for 20 ppgs and you work with that going forward. Everyone crys for brand,and he's a chance to get a player maybe even better then brand and you want to draft the pg. I think paxs has chi town going guard crazy.


----------



## pac4eva5

thebizkit69u said:


> Let me just say this also, Beasley is the SAFE PICK. This guy will be able to score in the NBA.. Not many people take a PG #1 so Rose is sorta the more riskier player.


how is a 6'8" PF with character problems a "safe" pick?

im pretty sure the 6'3" PG with freakish athleticsm, excellent defense, and high bball IQ is the safe pick.


----------



## HB

pac4eva5 said:


> how is a 6'8" PF with character problems a "safe" pick?
> 
> im pretty sure the 6'3" PG with freakish athleticsm, excellent defense, and high bball IQ is the safe pick.


Once again, Beasley is 6'9, every draft site has listed him as 6'9. Do you know something we dont? 

BTW what character issues does he have? His college coach says he is a great kid to be around


----------



## pac4eva5

ballerkingn said:


> What! beasly is on sheeds level coming out hell even hakeem at this age.Didn't hakeem stay all 4 year.But not sure about duncan really,still he's way better then sheed coming out.Rasheed couldn't score in college and developed his game and was a stick figure.Beasly is neither,and HE IS A TRUE PF NOT A DAME TWEENER.if anything rose is the tweener as a pg/sg.


u think beasley can be the 2nd best defending center in the league while playing 3rd fiddle on a selfish, championship team?

and what the hell are u talking about with hakeem? u think beasley can be a top 3 center in nba history too?


----------



## pac4eva5

HB said:


> Once again, Beasley is 6'9, every draft site has listed him as 6'9. Do you know something we dont?
> 
> BTW what character issues does he have? His college coach says he is a great kid to be around


when u get kicked out of school 8 times for childish bull**** while thinking no rule appys to u, then u my friend, have problems. imagine if he wasnt a star athlete...


----------



## bball2223

pac4eva5 said:


> how is a 6'8" PF with character problems a "safe" pick?
> 
> im pretty sure the 6'3" PG with freakish athleticsm, excellent defense, and high bball IQ is the safe pick.


What character issues? He was labeled lazy in high school because he was so god damn good he could turn it on and off whenever he wanted too. What else is there?


----------



## bball2223

pac4eva5 said:


> when u get kicked out of school 8 times for childish bull**** while thinking no rule appys to u, then u my friend, have problems. imagine if he wasnt a star athlete...


He hasn't gotten kicked out of school 8 times. He has moved around a lot similar to Amare Stoudamire last time I checked Amare wasn't a big troublemaker. Unless you provide a link I would like to ask you to quit posting ridiculous bull****. I think Rose should be the pick but bashing Beasley for stuff that never happened is quite sad.


----------



## HB

pac4eva5 said:


> when u get kicked out of school 8 times for childish bull**** while thinking no rule appys to u, then u my friend, have problems. imagine if he wasnt a star athlete...


Obviously you are making up stuff. Bball223's post above explains it.


----------



## ballerkingn

pac4eva5 said:


> u think beasley can be the 2nd best defending center in the league while playing 3rd fiddle on a selfish, championship team?
> 
> and what the hell are u talking about with hakeem? u think beasley can be a top 3 center in nba history too?


What are you talking about dude i'm really lost in everything you are trying to say????????????


----------



## NewAgeBaller

pac4eva5 said:


> when u get kicked out of school 8 times for childish bull**** while thinking no rule appys to u, then u my friend, have problems. imagine if he wasnt a star athlete...


Kicked out of school 8 times..? Now you're just making **** up..


----------



## Wade County

Caron Butler went to juvenile hall and was pretty much on the path to crime...now hes an NBA All-Star and general goodguy...


----------



## someone

BG44 said:


> Caron Butler went to juvenile hall and was pretty much on the path to crime...now hes an NBA All-Star and general goodguy...


Caron Butler? I've never even heard of him


----------



## Good Hope

HB said:


> How does Rose improve your offense when the players around him are still all mostly jumpshooters?


Gee, how could I come to the conclusion that a strong, fast and pass first point guard who's not afraid to drive to the basket and knows how to finish strong might provide excellent opportunities for fast, agile big men like Thomas, Gooden and Noah, or open up lanes for guys with good midrange games like Deng or Hinrich, and break down defenses for good shooters like Gordon and Nocioni?

What was I thinking?


----------



## someone

Good Hope said:


> Gee, how could I come to the conclusion that a strong, fast and pass first point guard who's not afraid to drive to the basket and knows how to finish strong might provide excellent opportunities for fast, agile big men like Thomas, Gooden and Noah, or open up lanes for guys with good midrange games like Deng or Hinrich, and break down defenses for good shooters like Gordon and Nocioni?
> 
> What was I thinking?


try the butterscotch!


----------



## Deke

Dornado said:


> And honestly, I'm curious where you got this idea. Who was playing center when Kareem was playing the 4? It just didn't happen...


wow i never knew kareem played every single minute of his entire career!

you do know mcadoo was the backup center right? lol

in the 70s centers werent as big as they are now.

an example of kareem playing pf would be vs the 70s knicks.


----------



## Ballhog

Hi relative new guy here...I dont honestly think we can go wrong either way but i think Rose makes the entire team better. Ok feel free to bash me for this and keep in mind that I am not saying Gooden is as good or better than Beasley but lets look at Goodens numbers 14.0ppg 9.3rpg and 1.28 blocks with the Bulls last year. Realisticly What do we say Beasleys numbers can be...I will be optomistic and say 20 and 10 from day one on the floor (I know what his college averages were but this is the NBA) ok now lets be really optomistic and say for his career he is 22 and 12 so at the max he brings at least stat wise an extra 8pts and 3rbds not bad but is that better than a guy who is going to make your entire roster better by geting them open shots with his court vision, passing skills and his ability to either ignite the fast break with his lightening quickness or drive the lane and and kick to an open shooter/finish it off himself. Rose is my guy but that being said if we get Beasley I will be only slightly less happy.


----------



## darlets

Michael Beasley - K-State Montage 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpyAf0Iz6UY

I thought this clip was good.

I started off wanting Rose, but now I'm very torn, glad it's Paxson call.


----------



## someone

Ballhog said:


> Hi relative new guy here...I dont honestly think we can go wrong either way but i think Rose makes the entire team better. Ok feel free to bash me for this and keep in mind that I am not saying Gooden is as good or better than Beasley but lets look at Goodens numbers 14.0ppg 9.3rpg and 1.28 blocks with the Bulls last year. Realisticly What do we say Beasleys numbers can be...I will be optomistic and say 20 and 10 from day one on the floor (I know what his college averages were but this is the NBA) ok now lets be really optomistic and say for his career he is 22 and 12 so at the max he brings at least stat wise an extra 8pts and 3rbds not bad but is that better than a guy who is going to make your entire roster better by geting them open shots with his court vision, passing skills and his ability to either ignite the fast break with his lightening quickness or drive the lane and and kick to an open shooter/finish it off himself. Rose is my guy but that being said if we get Beasley I will be only slightly less happy.


i pretty much agree with you


----------



## darlets

The thing that intrigues me about Beasley and our line up

is you could get Deng, Gooden, Noah and him good minutes

Noah 30/ Gooden 6/ Gray or someone 12
Beasley 20/Gooden 28
Deng 36/ Beasley 12

I'm not sure you have to give up Gooden's production entirely.

you'd could have beasley or goodens on the floor at all times.

Like you can nit pick minutes, but it's quite possible to get four guys decent minutes.

Though I'd be really concerned about the Defence with that front court.

Still leaning towards Rose.

At this point, mainly because he plays both ends of the floor more and I think he could physically dominate his position.


----------



## someone

darlets said:


> The thing that intrigues me about Beasley and our line up
> 
> is you could get Deng, Gooden, Noah and him good minutes
> 
> Noah 30/ Gooden 6/ Gray or someone 12
> Beasley 20/Gooden 28
> Deng 36/ Beasley 12
> 
> I'm not sure you have to give up Gooden's production entirely.
> 
> you'd could have beasley or goodens on the floor at all times.
> 
> Like you can nit pick minutes, but it's quite possible to get four guys decent minutes.
> 
> Though I'd be really concerned about the Defence with that front court.
> 
> Still leaning towards Rose.
> 
> At this point, mainly because he plays both ends of the floor more and I think he could physically dominate his position.


well if we traded Tyrus


----------



## darlets

liekomgj4ck said:


> well if we traded Tyrus


Yeah , I don't really want to trade him.

I'd draft Rose, and see where Noah and TT are after another year.

I'd like other peoples opinions, but do you think regardless of who we draft, someone is getting traded?

If it's Beasley a front court player and if it's Rose a backcourt player?

The idea of
Noah
Gooden
Deng
Thabo
Rose

and bringing Kirk off the bench is quite appealling, decisions decisions


----------



## Good Hope

darlets said:


> Yeah , I don't really want to trade him.
> 
> I'd draft Rose, and see where Noah and TT are after another year.
> 
> I'd like other peoples opinions, but do you think regardless of who we draft, someone is getting traded?
> 
> If it's Beasley a front court player and if it's Rose a backcourt player?
> 
> The idea of
> Noah
> Gooden
> Deng
> Thabo
> Rose
> 
> and bringing Kirk off the bench is quite appealling, decisions decisions


Darlets, I like your posting. You like to think, but you aren't sure you're right! That's a good combination.

IMO, the Bulls HAVE to trade someone (or just lose someone) from the backcourt no matter what.

And we have written off Duhon, but depending on what direction the team takes, he might end up being a very valuable piece (he always ends up in this position) and needs to be included in the overall picture, though I think he's unrestricted.

At the least, one of Hinrich, Gordon and Hughes have to go. Everyone's favorite first choice is Hughes. That may not be possible. 

And if Rose comes, it is probably wise to consider sending off Hinrich or Gordon as well. 

I think the ideal would be to have Rose, Sefolosha and Gordon or Hinrich as your three main backcourt fellows. And if Hinrich is sent off, then you want to keep Duhon if you can.

If Beasley comes, probably at least Tyrus or Gooden should go, and I don't see the team being willing to go with a totally young frontcourt. In fact, I wouldn't doubt if they want to get some more experience up front, not less, especially of a defensive nature (like the rumored Przybilla move).


----------



## Nu_Omega

My pick is Rose, his explosiveness and quickness are what we need, someone who can take it to the hole and draw fouls. Rose has the ability to make those amazing adjustments in mid-air and i can forsee tons of 3-point plays coming from him if he can fully integrate into the NBA. IMO looking at the way he plays Rose is truly special and I see him as a more athletic score first PG ala Tony Parker than a pass first PG like Jason Kidd. 

Beasley can flat-out score no doubt and he will draw a double team even though he's undersized for a PF. Beasley is more of a face-up player than a post-up back to basket guy but i could see him developing into someone like Boozer of David West. But then, i don't see the x-factor in him when compared to Rose. 

I say we draft Rose and see how Gooden progresses at the 4 and let Tyrus and Gray fight for the scrapes,
or since Gordon is our best player last season and thus would be the only one with the highest trade value, i would not mind trading him with either Tyrus or Gooden for a PF to boost our front court. 

If Pax goes for Beasley, i would like to see a trade for TJ Ford to form a partnership like how the latter did with Bosh in Toronto.


----------



## thebizkit69u

charlietyra said:


> You're my guy biskit but I have to disagree with you on this. Barkley was an average defender at best.
> 
> What made Barkley special was his 1)unbelievable explosiveness; 2)physical toughness/intimidation; 3)ability to hit the outside J as well as drive to the basket; 4)ball handling ability. Also, he had one of the great nicknames of all-time- "the round mound of rebound." What is really amazing is that he was only about 6'5".
> 
> FWIW, as a TV commentator I generally think he is worthless. He is usually wrong. I think his appeal is that he acts like a buffoon most of the time and the audiences eat this up. If you want real analysis listen to Greg Anthony and Tim Legler.


Ok maybe he wasnt one of the best defenders but the man played in the Era of great big men IMO. 

But back to what that other dude said about Beasley being a super athletic version of Barkley, thats just crazy!


----------



## thebizkit69u

How bout we trade Noah, Gordon, Thabo and 2 future first round picks for Beasley? lol.


----------



## HB

Good Hope said:


> Gee, how could I come to the conclusion that a strong, fast and pass first point guard who's not afraid to drive to the basket and knows how to finish strong might provide excellent opportunities for fast, agile big men like Thomas, Gooden and Noah, or open up lanes for guys with good midrange games like Deng or Hinrich, and break down defenses for good shooters like Gordon and Nocioni?
> 
> What was I thinking?


If you are thinking Rose is going to be throwing oops all over the place like Chris Paul, you are in for a rude awakening.


----------



## Good Hope

HB said:


> If you are thinking Rose is going to be throwing oops all over the place like Chris Paul, you are in for a rude awakening.


I don't know. 

We're just not communicating.

I'm looking for Rose to be someone who can break down the defense with his dribble, who can go to the hoop and finish and who knows what to do with the ball as the defense collapses. 

If he can't do that, then he's not in the discussion as a number one or number 2 pick.

Are you claiming that he won't be able to do that?

And I don't think its out of line to expect that Tyrus and Noah could utilize their speed and height to take advantage of what Rose can offer.

That's all. It's ridiculous to say that a number 1 or number 2 point guard can't or won't help the Bulls' offense. 

This is not to say that if Beasley comes instead, he won't help the offense as much or more in his own way.

That's Pax's job to decide who has the greater impact. But to claim that Rose won't have an impact on the Bulls' offensive efficiency, (because they're all just jump shooters) is ridiculous.


----------



## Dornado

Here's where I am right now:

If we can't get a decent big man for one of Hinrich/Hughes/Gordon, then I think we have to go Beasley.

I can't help but think that:

Hinrich/Sefolosha/Deng/Beasley/Noah with Thomas, Gordon and Nocioni off the bench will be better than:

Rose/Gordon or Hinrich/Deng/Gooden or Thomas/Noah. 

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's where I'm at right now.


----------



## Deke

Dornado said:


> Here's where I am right now:
> 
> If we can't get a decent big man for one of Hinrich/Hughes/Gordon, then I think we have to go Beasley.
> 
> I can't help but think that:
> 
> Hinrich/Sefolosha/Deng/Beasley/Noah with Thomas, Gordon and Nocioni off the bench will be better than:
> 
> Rose/Gordon or Hinrich/Deng/Gooden or Thomas/Noah.
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong, but that's where I'm at right now.


i agree with you. thats my stance completely.


----------



## The ROY

What decent bigman are you gonna get?

Brand isn't coming back

Amare isn't getting traded

Dwight, Bynum, Gasol, KG etc. not happening.

You want a big? I'm pretty sure we could land Jermaine Oneal at this point without giving up TT or Rose...

and I'd much rather have O'Neal, Rose & TT than Beasley and this gang


----------



## Deke

The ROY said:


> What decent bigman are you gonna get?
> 
> Brand isn't coming back
> 
> Amare isn't getting traded
> 
> Dwight, Bynum, Gasol, KG etc. not happening.
> 
> You want a big? I'm pretty sure we could land Jermaine Oneal at this point without giving up TT or Rose...
> 
> and I'd much rather have O'Neal, Rose & TT than Beasley and this gang


i wouldnt say brand is out of the question.

possible big men

Jermaine
Brand
Antawn
Emeka
K-mart
Camby
Randolph
Miller

we have alot of options for trading for a big man.


----------



## The ROY

Deke said:


> i wouldnt say brand is out of the question.
> 
> possible big men
> 
> Jermaine
> Brand
> Antawn
> Emeka
> K-mart
> Camby
> Randolph
> Miller
> 
> we have alot of options for trading for a big man.


Brand's not coming back to Chicago. That's just wishful thinking. There is no plus for him to come back since he hated the whether and he produces film in LA.

Antawn - not a big, nor do we need him
K-Mart - ? dude's careers been dead
Camby - why when you have Noah?
Miller - doesn't fit in with this current group at all
Randolph - probably not much of a chance

Jermaine is the best possible option at this point.


----------



## Deke

The ROY said:


> Brand's not coming back to Chicago. That's just wishful thinking. There is no plus for him to come back since he hated the whether and he produces film in LA.
> 
> Antawn - not a big, nor do we need him
> K-Mart - ? dude's careers been dead
> Camby - why when you have Noah?
> Miller - doesn't fit in with this current group at all
> Randolph - probably not much of a chance
> 
> Jermaine is the best possible option at this point.


i havent heard anything about brand making films or hating chicago.

and why do you disregard emeka? hes obviously the best fit for us of all of them. not only can he play pf and but he can take time at center when we need a strong body. plus his offense can be solid at times and his Post D rivals duncans imo.


----------



## Good Hope

Deke said:


> i havent heard anything about brand making films or hating chicago.
> 
> and why do you disregard emeka? hes obviously the best fit for us of all of them. not only can he play pf and but he can take time at center when we need a strong body. plus his offense can be solid at times and his Post D rivals duncans imo.


Okafor's a good option, I think.

Better than Przybilla!


----------



## thebizkit69u

Good Hope said:


> Okafor's a good option, I think.
> 
> Better than Przybilla!


No way in hell should the Bulls give Okafor the Max contract that he wants.

The Bulls should just forget about trying to make the playoffs next season if they make it great if not then whatever, their #1 goal should be develop Derrick Rose then get a star in the 2009 FA class.


----------



## Deke

thebizkit69u said:


> No way in hell should the Bulls give Okafor the Max contract that he wants.
> 
> The Bulls should just forget about trying to make the playoffs next season if they make it great if not then whatever, their #1 goal should be develop Derrick Rose then get a star in the 2009 FA class.


if we can get rose and meka we dont need no free agent. we got the team!

we'd not only be great on D but we'd have a post D big man as well(which is what you really need to win a ring.)


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## Good Hope

Deke said:


> if we can get rose and meka we dont need no free agent. we got the team!
> 
> we'd not only be great on D but we'd have a post D big man as well(which is what you really need to win a ring.)


It depends. What's Okafor going to cost to get?


----------



## someone

Deke said:


> i wouldnt say brand is out of the question.
> 
> possible big men
> 
> Jermaine
> Brand
> Antawn
> Emeka
> K-mart
> Camby
> Randolph
> Miller
> 
> we have alot of options for trading for a big man.


I cringe at that list except for like 2.


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## Dornado

I'd love to get Emeka Okafor... but what do we have that Charlotte needs? They have a PG and SG of the future in Felton and Richardson (who is what, 27?)..


----------



## thebizkit69u

Deke said:


> if we can get rose and meka we dont need no free agent. we got the team!
> 
> we'd not only be great on D but we'd have a post D big man as well(which is what you really need to win a ring.)


Okafor wants Max money and nobody in their right mind would give it to him, why the hell should he be paid top dollar when he only averages 13 and 10, dont you think Noah atleast could average 9 and 9?


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## Good Hope

John Jackson of Suntimes weighs in:

First, there's this bit about Miami wanting to trade the #2. Hey bizkit, you were right. Here's at least some answer as to why.



> Second choice
> While the Bulls are deciding whether to select Derrick Rose or Michael Beasley with the top pick in the draft, the Miami Heat, holder of the second pick, already has made its decision.
> 
> Rose is the choice of Heat president Pat Riley -- and he may not be content to wait for the Bulls to make a decision and risk losing the Memphis point guard.
> 
> ''The fact that you have the second pick in the draft is a position you can leverage,'' Riley said. ''You know, we have a very good power forward in Miami right now. So we'll use the pick. It doesn't necessarily mean we're going to use it to draft somebody.
> 
> ''Take a look at what Boston did last year. I'm talking hypotheticals. I just want people to know, especially our fans, that we're going to do our best to select a player or leverage that pick to get the best player for the team.''
> 
> Riley also isn't ruling out the possibility of making a deal with the Bulls to swap picks.
> 
> ''Probably down the road, I'll be talking to [Bulls general manager] John Paxson,'' Riley said.


Then, there's the opinions from others on what to do.



> The Bulls will have roughly a month to decide whether to select Memphis point guard Derrick Rose or Kansas State power forward Michael Beasley with the top pick in the NBA draft. If they're looking for some advice -- which they probably aren't -- there's no shortage of opinions around the league about what they should do.
> 
> Here's a sampling:
> 
> • • Minnesota Timberwolves vice president Kevin McHale believes Beasley is the most NBA-ready and his game translates to the pro game.
> 
> ''He's a big guy who can shoot the three, can post you and use either hand,'' McHale said. ''That translates in our league. He has such a big body. He's a man-child.''
> 
> McHale seemed a bit suspect of Rose's shooting ability when discussing how he'd fit in with the T-wolves. ''If you're going to play next to Al Jefferson, you better be able to do this," McHale said, making a shooting motion with his right arm and referring to the double teams Jefferson commands.
> 
> • • Portland Trail Blazers general manager Kevin Pritchard feels the Bulls will get some tempting trade offers for the pick.
> 
> ''If you look at Chicago and what they have, they've got so much youth,'' Pritchard said. ''But it's gonna be an interesting dynamic because Rose is from there, but they've begged for a low-post scorer for the last, oh, three, four years. So they're gonna have their choice, and it'll be interesting to see which way they go with that.''
> 
> • • ESPN analyst Jay Bilas: ''You've got a player in Beasley who put up fabulous numbers and has proven to be an NBA-ready player right now and will go into the league, and he will put up numbers right away, similar to what you saw from Kevin Durant.
> 
> ''But I'm a big believer that if you get a chance at a potentially great point guard, you pull the trigger on it, and he is one of those. Derrick Rose is going to be hard to say no to. You're not going to be able to get a point guard of his caliber in free agency.''
> 
> • • Memphis Grizzlies GM Chris Wallace: ''Beasley had the more impressive season from a statistical standpoint, and he was anointed earlier. Beasley's season was comparable to Kevin Durant's, a year later, in the same conference. And he also, which I think is very important, had an impact on winning. His presence obviously was huge.''
> 
> About Rose, Wallace said: ''He started kind of cautiously. He let things come to him, the season come to him. Then, and I saw this by about the three-quarter mark, even though he's just a freshman, the other players basically handed the baton to him and said, 'You earned this; you're the guy.' And he took over from there.''
> 
> No doubt, there will be even more opinions expressed in the coming weeks.


It's funny how many have said that Paxson likes players like himself.

Seems that McHale likes players like himself. 

I'm not sure McHale is the one I would want making this decision, though....


----------



## Good Hope

SausageKingofChicago said:


> Suck a long one Mike f'n D'Antoni !!!!!!!!!
> 
> What this team is going to be with Rose , Thomas , Noah , Deng and Sefolosha
> 
> Kirk to fit the Nate McMillan 6th role
> 
> Time to send Ben Gordon with Larry Hughes to New York for Malik Rose, Quentin Richardson and DAVID LEE...and deal on Q and Ced Simmons for Tony Battie and JJ Redick
> 
> Gooden and Nocioni for Michael Redd
> 
> *
> 
> Noah
> Thomas
> Deng
> Redd
> D.Rose
> 
> 6th : Hinrich
> 
> bench
> 
> Gray
> Lee
> Sefolosha
> Redick
> Duhon ( yes Duhon ..bring him back )
> 
> M.Rose ( expiring )
> 
> *


I thought I should bump the King's trade idea, since I started pining for Redd.

Not sure about some of the details here.

Duhon doesn't come back to be the 9th or 10th man.

How quickly can we deal Q after getting him? It would have to be a three way, I suppose.

Where's Battie on the roster?

I'm worried about the front court in this scenario. Pretty young and undisciplined. No enforcer of any type.

Can you work out a scenario involving Okafor instead?


----------



## Good Hope

KState montage on Beasley

For balance.

The guy is pretty awesome. He seems real likable, too. Amazing body control, ball-handling and left/right handed parity.

Nice passion for the game....


----------



## Dornado

Good Hope said:


> KState montage on Beasley
> 
> For balance.
> 
> The guy is pretty awesome. He seems real likable, too. Amazing body control, ball-handling and left/right handed parity.
> 
> Nice passion for the game....


He mostly goes left. Edit to add: at 5:40 of that clip he throws down a ridiculous dunk with his RIGHT... yikes.

He does look awesome... just the athleticism alone... plus the fact that he can handle and shoot... hard to pass a guy like that up.

Can he play the 4 in the NBA though? I've seen the offensive highlights... I know he can score... but is he just going to get abused by NBA power forwards down low? Does he block any shots? Can he play man defense? Will his athleticism make up for what could be less-than-ideal height?


----------



## HB

Its his defense I would be worried about.


----------



## T.Shock

Dornado said:


> He mostly goes left. Edit to add: at 5:40 of that clip he throws down a ridiculous dunk with his RIGHT... yikes.
> 
> He does look awesome... just the athleticism alone... plus the fact that he can handle and shoot... hard to pass a guy like that up.
> 
> Can he play the 4 in the NBA though? I've seen the offensive highlights... I know he can score... but is he just going to get abused by NBA power forwards down low? Does he block any shots? Can he play man defense? Will his athleticism make up for what could be less-than-ideal height?


Here is my issue with Beasley. People keep saying, "oh the Bulls need a low post scorer, the Bulls need a low post scorer" and I agree to some extent although easy baskets are easy baskets no matter how you get them. But Beasley isn't a Duncan, Shaq, Howard, Gasol, etc. post player. He is much more of a hybrid 3/4 and I think the Rasheed Wallace comparison is accurate. Would you call Sheed a dominating post presence? I wouldn't. I think Beasley is going to be a good scorer and good rebounder, but won't even be absolutely dominant whereas Rose will make everybody around him better and also have the ability to take over a game by himself. 

I watch a lot of college basketball and Beasley had the better stats but after seeing Rose about 10+ times, I said to a friend of mine, "That kid better be the #1 pick in the draft next summer." Questions about his jumper are valid, but as LeBron has demonstrated, you don't need to be a lights out shooter, if you can finish at the rim and be stronger than everyone else at your position. Beasley is still wiry and I have a bad feeling that opposing PFs are going to be able to push him around and he won't be an effective defender. 

People have thrown out names from Chris Paul to Deron Williams to Jason Kidd when talking about Rose. But you know who I see when I watch Derrick Rose. Gary Payton. A taller, quicker version of Gary Payton. Now we just need Kemp. 

(Paging Tyrus Thomas to the weight room. Tyrus Thomas to the weight room.)


----------



## Good Hope

Dornado said:


> He mostly goes left. Edit to add: at 5:40 of that clip he throws down a ridiculous dunk with his RIGHT... yikes.
> 
> He does look awesome... just the athleticism alone... plus the fact that he can handle and shoot... hard to pass a guy like that up.
> 
> Can he play the 4 in the NBA though? I've seen the offensive highlights... I know he can score... but is he just going to get abused by NBA power forwards down low? Does he block any shots? Can he play man defense? Will his athleticism make up for what could be less-than-ideal height?


Over at Realgm they have a youtube only thread on Beasley and Rose. One of the videos on Beasley shows about three or four blocks at the beginning. 

Also, it was interesting to note how many clips there were of DRose making free throws. I wasn't sure what to make of that 

But the clips are definitely skewed. The ones on Rose showed off his midrange game and speed and jumping ability -- not so much that he was a pass first point guard.


----------



## Dornado

T.Shock said:


> Here is my issue with Beasley. People keep saying, "oh the Bulls need a low post scorer, the Bulls need a low post scorer" and I agree to some extent although easy baskets are easy baskets no matter how you get them. But Beasley isn't a Duncan, Shaq, Howard, Gasol, etc. post player. He is much more of a hybrid 3/4 and I think the Rasheed Wallace comparison is accurate. Would you call Sheed a dominating post presence? I wouldn't. I think Beasley is going to be a good scorer and good rebounder, but won't even be absolutely dominant whereas Rose will make everybody around him better and also have the ability to take over a game by himself.
> 
> I watch a lot of college basketball and Beasley had the better stats but after seeing Rose about 10+ times, I said to a friend of mine, "That kid better be the #1 pick in the draft next summer." Questions about his jumper are valid, but as LeBron has demonstrated, you don't need to be a lights out shooter, if you can finish at the rim and be stronger than everyone else at your position. Beasley is still wiry and I have a bad feeling that opposing PFs are going to be able to push him around and he won't be an effective defender.
> 
> People have thrown out names from Chris Paul to Deron Williams to Jason Kidd when talking about Rose. But you know who I see when I watch Derrick Rose. Gary Payton. A taller, quicker version of Gary Payton. Now we just need Kemp.
> 
> (Paging Tyrus Thomas to the weight room. Tyrus Thomas to the weight room.)


Payton is probably actually taller than Rose, but Payton didn't have Rose's absurd athleticism. 

I share your concerns with Beasley... but I'm also concerned about our logjam at the G position and that everyone seems to equate drafting Rose with sending Hinrich away for peanuts, which I am against.


----------



## HB

T.Shock said:


> Here is my issue with Beasley. People keep saying, "oh the Bulls need a low post scorer, the Bulls need a low post scorer" and I agree to some extent although easy baskets are easy baskets no matter how you get them. But Beasley isn't a Duncan, Shaq, Howard, Gasol, etc. post player. He is much more of a hybrid 3/4 and I think the Rasheed Wallace comparison is accurate. Would you call Sheed a dominating post presence? I wouldn't. I think Beasley is going to be a good scorer and good rebounder, but won't even be absolutely dominant whereas Rose will make everybody around him better and also have the ability to take over a game by himself.
> 
> I watch a lot of college basketball and Beasley had the better stats but after seeing Rose about 10+ times, I said to a friend of mine, "That kid better be the #1 pick in the draft next summer." Questions about his jumper are valid, but as LeBron has demonstrated, you don't need to be a lights out shooter, if you can finish at the rim and be stronger than everyone else at your position. Beasley is still wiry and I have a bad feeling that opposing PFs are going to be able to push him around and he won't be an effective defender.
> 
> People have thrown out names from Chris Paul to Deron Williams to Jason Kidd when talking about Rose. But you know who I see when I watch Derrick Rose. Gary Payton. A taller, quicker version of Gary Payton. Now we just need Kemp.
> 
> (Paging Tyrus Thomas to the weight room. Tyrus Thomas to the weight room.)



Just thought I'd mention that Beasley is 19 years old. If he grows one or two more inches, we are talking about a nightmare problem for opposing PF's. Being so young, he still has room to fill out that frame of his.

Good analysis on Rose btw!


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## Good Hope

T.Shock said:


> People have thrown out names from Chris Paul to Deron Williams to Jason Kidd when talking about Rose. But you know who I see when I watch Derrick Rose. Gary Payton. A taller, quicker version of Gary Payton. Now we just need Kemp.
> 
> (Paging Tyrus Thomas to the weight room. Tyrus Thomas to the weight room.)


Rose isn't taller than Payton!? Wasn't Payton 6'5''?

Rose is pretty darn quick, though.


----------



## Dornado

look at this crossover by Beasley... filthy.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/iqC9L2goKjI&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/iqC9L2goKjI&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>


----------



## Good Hope

Dornado said:


> look at this crossover by Beasley... filthy.
> 
> <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/iqC9L2goKjI&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/iqC9L2goKjI&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>


Oh, if only Deng or Tyrus could do that! It's really an amazing display of total control of his body and focus on scoring. Whew!


----------



## croco

Payton was 6'3, 6'4 at best, so he actually compares to Rose in terms of height too. I agree that he is a much better comparison to him than Chris Paul or Deron Williams, for some reason a lot of people want to the find the closest comparison to players of today when there is really none. He is not the passer that Chris Paul is and probably will never be, neither does he have the approach of Deron Williams. They are great in their own right, but Rose doesn't play like those two. I still think that the comparison nbadraft.net originally made (a mix of Payton/Wade) is very good, that is a high ceiling, but he is capable of achieving it.


----------



## someone

HB said:


> Just thought I'd mention that Beasley is 19 years old. If he grows one or two more inches, we are talking about a nightmare problem for opposing PF's. Being so young, he still has room to fill out that frame of his.
> 
> Good analysis on Rose btw!


the same can be said about Rose, he's about 19 and is 6'3... what if he grows?


----------



## King Joseus

Good Hope said:


> Rose isn't taller than Payton!? Wasn't Payton 6'5''?


Wikipedia lists him at 6'3", NBA.com lists him at 6'4"...


----------



## HB

liekomgj4ck said:


> the same can be said about Rose, he's about 19 and is 6'3... what if he grows?


Thats also possible


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## Good Hope

King Joseus said:


> Wikipedia lists him at 6'3", NBA.com lists him at 6'4"...


Maybe its just because Rose is a little stockier. Payton always seemed so lanky. 

Payton/Wade as a ceiling ain't bad.


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## LionOfJudah

In my mind it comes down to Rose being with out a question a NBA PG while Beasley is another PF/SF. Beasley is still an awesome player who could make a splash in the NBA just like he did his 1st year in College but the question of what position he'll play creates the only question you don't have to ask with Rose. Rose is going to play PG and play it well giving you a key building block for years to come.


----------



## ballerkingn

Beasley Will Play Pf Everyone For The Last Time. Paxson Said It Himself He's A Pf Enough Ok.


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## Good Hope

stevemc said:


> In my mind it comes down to Rose being with out a question a NBA PG while Beasley is another PF/SF. Beasley is still an awesome player who could make a splash in the NBA just like he did his 1st year in College but the question of what position he'll play creates the only question you don't have to ask with Rose. Rose is going to play PG and play it well giving you a key building block for years to come.


You speak for suffering Bulls fans everywhere.

It is a relic of the Triangle and the sense that positions for players don't need to be defined. So the Bulls have so many "versatile" players who do many things well, but nothing great.

The team needs a clear identity. Luol is one who has a clear place. Noah is another. But the backcourt is still jumbled. Rose will crystallize the backcourt for this team, and perhaps be enough to sort out the other positions and roles, as well.

Good post.

Still, Beasley is quite the temptation for continuing in the "tweener" tradition.


----------



## someone

stevemc said:


> In my mind it comes down to Rose being with out a question a NBA PG while Beasley is another PF/SF. Beasley is still an awesome player who could make a splash in the NBA just like he did his 1st year in College but the question of what position he'll play creates the only question you don't have to ask with Rose. Rose is going to play PG and play it well giving you a key building block for years to come.


yep


----------



## T.Shock

Dornado said:


> Payton is probably actually taller than Rose, but Payton didn't have Rose's absurd athleticism.
> 
> I share your concerns with Beasley... but I'm also concerned about our logjam at the G position and that everyone seems to equate drafting Rose with sending Hinrich away for peanuts, which I am against.


Actually I'm in favor of keeping Hinrich to back-up both Thabo and Rose. We know that Hinrich can guard most of the 2s in the East that can put up big numbers, and he's a capable PG in stretches. I still think that a Gordon, Gooden, 2009 #1 Pick for a post player (Brand, O'Neal, etc.) makes the most sense as a package. It clears up the backcourt leaving Rose, Thabo, and Hinrich as the guards, Deng and Nocioni as the wings and then Tyrus, the trade acquistion, and Noah as the post players in an 8-man rotation. If a team would prefer Hinrich to Gordon, then we can run with that too. Either way, I think that either Hinrich or Gordon plus either Tyrus or Gooden plus our 1st round pick next year should be the package Paxson is proposing to other GMs. 

Because I honestly believe that Rose, Deng, and whoever we pick up in the post can handle the slack. I'd be okay with Hinrich, Deng, and our 1st Round Pick for 'Melo or T-Mac too, largely because I still think Tyrus can be the re-incarnation of Shawn Kemp (again if Ty decides to hit the weights).


----------



## someone

T.Shock said:


> Actually I'm in favor of keeping Hinrich to back-up both Thabo and Rose. We know that Hinrich can guard most of the 2s in the East that can put up big numbers, and he's a capable PG in stretches. I still think that a Gordon, Gooden, 2009 #1 Pick for a post player (Brand, O'Neal, etc.) makes the most sense as a package. It clears up the backcourt leaving Rose, Thabo, and Hinrich as the guards, Deng and Nocioni as the wings and then Tyrus, the trade acquistion, and Noah as the post players in an 8-man rotation. If a team would prefer Hinrich to Gordon, then we can run with that too. Either way, I think that either Hinrich or Gordon plus either Tyrus or Gooden plus our 1st round pick next year should be the package Paxson is proposing to other GMs.
> 
> Because I honestly believe that Rose, Deng, and whoever we pick up in the post can handle the slack. I'd be okay with Hinrich, Deng, and our 1st Round Pick for 'Melo or T-Mac too, largely because I still think Tyrus can be the re-incarnation of Shawn Kemp (again if Ty decides to hit the weights).


sounds good to me. but wow, Shawn Kemp?


----------



## LionOfJudah

liekomgj4ck said:


> sounds good to me. but wow, Shawn Kemp?


Yeah... he's going to have to start getting busy if he wants to have that many kids.


----------



## someone

stevemc said:


> Yeah... he's going to have to start getting busy if he wants to have that many kids.


there are many many tyrus homers on this forum that probably wouldn't mind givings him so children...


----------

