# Araujo breaking down already (told ya)



## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

already in his rookie season Hoffa with a total of 35 mins. under his belt is experiencing back pain.

I'll give Babs huge credit for the Alson signing (and even woods) but Hoffa will be a bust *everyone* seems to echo that.






> Araujo, 24, has been used sparingly this season by the 5-6 Raptors, averaging just seven minutes in the five games he's played. He is averaging 0.8 points and 1.4 rebounds per game.
> 
> http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...701&call_pageid=969907729483&col=970081562040


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Must mean he's working hard doing something or other. I'm sure his back will be just fine. It's not like he's going to be worn down on the court. Araujo is a depth builder, I don't hate the pick yet and I don't know if Babcock is regretting it. 

It's not like Biedrins, Swift, or Jefferson have been doing much of anything so far either. However, you look at David Harrison being picked up so low by the Pacers and you have to wonder if we couldn't have come out with something more than a role-playing center.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

I remember hoopshype reporting that Araujo KILLED Harrison in one-on-one workouts. That's why Harrison dropped so low. Harrison started to improve later but by then everyone liked Araujo because he was so mobile and had legit C size.

I think Swift may become the best pure C in this draft, but it could take 4+ years for his body to develop sufficiently to dominate down low where his skills are so great. Kid has some of the best footwork and natural post moves I have seen from a C in a long time based on the HS all-star game and summer league stuff I saw. Swift avoided all workouts and was a mystery to a lot of clubs.

Jefferson is more of a PF but probably the most skilled big in that part of the draft.

Biedrins? who knows? Definitely not a C.

Harrison has been getting tons of PT with Indiana because of all the injuries they had and now with the suspensions he will be forced to play more.

Araujo could play right now too for most clubs. His offensive game isn't there but defensively the kid has proven to be a presence and that's what most teams want. He would get his points off rebounds and dishes in the paint.

I don't really like Mitchell's idea of trying to break Araujo from thinking about offense at all. He needs to be working hard on developing a low post offense that our perimeter guys can work off of. Entry passes to big men are the easiest form of penetration you can get. If he can score a little then he becomes a real passing threat to cutters.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

By the guys in the play by play team, Hoffa is the first guy in the door to work. And he goes above and beyond the call in the gym. This is the same BS we are going to hear from Charlz until he is cut or until he is an established player.

Well, big men take time. He's got 3 seasons to make strides before he has the potential to be cut.

Charlz is doing an "I told ya so" about 230 regular season games too soon.

Hey Biedrins is getting 4 MPG for GS, he sux, I told you I wasn't sold on him.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

we should have taken Iguolada he is looking like a future all around contributer with the 76ers.
If we had him it would be easier to move Rose or Carter.
Since Andre can play both the 2 and 3.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Back pain is unfortunate. Hopefully it isn't anything serious. There is a lot of strain on his frame when he's carrying around three-hundred pounds and hitting the weights like a madman.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> Must mean he's working hard doing something or other. I'm sure his back will be just fine.


Sorry SW why is he going to be just fine?

I made the point after the draft that approx. 300lb men were not ideal for a fast break game. Few and far between are the shaqs of the world who can play for a decade at that weight.

for more common are the guy like todd Mac, Jahaidi White, Matt Gieger, Disogna Diop and countless more whos careers can never take off because there weight is too much for their frame.

The best big men (7 footerish types) are the guys who weigh in at 250-260 Duncan, Jamaal. They seem to have way more longevirt are are effective through out the course of a game.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

well, so much for the weight lost Araujo gained during the offseason eh?

from 280 to 270 and counting. but hey, if you want to blabber about him being at 300 lbs still just to further believe you're right, then go on ahead.


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## McFurious (Mar 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> already in his rookie season Hoffa with a total of 35 mins. under his belt is experiencing back pain.
> 
> I'll give Babs huge credit for the Alson signing (and even woods) but Hoffa will be a bust *everyone* seems to echo that.


This is the biggest BULL I've heard all day. Everyone seems to think that when we drafted Araujo that he was going to be the next Shaq. It's not even half way through the season and people and already on his case. With Woods playing well and Mitchell using Marshall at center Hoffa only sees the floor a few minutes a night... and because of this he's a bust? Come on people centre is the hardest position to play in the NBA and expecting a rookie who we all knew was going to take time in getting adjusted to the NBA to jump right in and be a dominating force is just wishful thinking. 

Araujo will be fine and he has already shown improvement with boxing out players and setting screens for the likes of Alston and Carter.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lucky777s</b>!
> 
> 
> I think Swift may become the best pure C in this draft, but it could take *4+ years* for his body to develop sufficiently to dominate down low where his skills are so great.


And how old he will be ??? 22 Araujo is already 24 :uhoh: and if we are looking to win in a few yrs like Babs said why dont draft this kid instead of 24yrs old Araujo


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

*Re: Re: Araujo breaking down already (told ya)*



> Originally posted by <b>McFurious</b>!
> 
> 
> *This is the biggest BULL I've heard all day. Everyone seems to think that when we drafted Araujo that he was going to be the next Shaq. It's not even half way through the season and people and already on his case. With Woods playing well and Mitchell using Marshall at center Hoffa only sees the floor a few minutes a night... and because of this he's a bust?* Come on people centre is the hardest position to play in the NBA and expecting a rookie who we all knew was going to take time in getting adjusted to the NBA to jump right in and be a dominating force is just wishful thinking.


And why he's not playing ? not because Mitchell is using Donny at center is not that Araujo probably has show nothing on the practice and when a 6'9 (Donny) play at center over you (Araujo 6'11 290lbs+) is because you suck...


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Araujo breaking down already (told ya)*



> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> And why he's not playing ? not because Mitchell is using Donny at center is not that Araujo probably has show nothing on the practice and when a 6'9 (Donny) play at center over you (Araujo 6'11 290lbs+) is because you suck...


Actually, it's Bosh taking Araujo's minutes at center and he definitely does not suck. It appears that it has been back pain keeping Aruajo out of the lineup, on top of the fact that he's a rookie, not that he sucks. 

Haven't you guys seen Araujo? He moves well, he's not fat, his strength is obvious on the court, he's a VERY good passer, and has great form on his shot (with confidence out to the 3-point line). He just needs to continue listening to the coaches and gaining experience.


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## ABC (Nov 4, 2002)

back pain for big men is never good , esp. for a big man. 

I would call him a bust , not because he totally sucks, but when you are top 10 pick, you should be more than a "role" player.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Araujo breaking down already (told ya)*



> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually, it's Bosh taking Araujo's minutes at center and he definitely does not suck. It appears that it has been back pain keeping Aruajo out of the lineup, on top of the fact that he's a rookie, not that he sucks.
> ...



Dont forget he's a foul machine he has more fouls than points in the season 5 fouls 2-8 fg


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## AdamIllman (May 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Biedrins is getting 4 MPG for GS, he sux, I told you I wasn't sold on him.



i've agreed with a lot of the things i've seen you post on here but Biedrins is 18...what the hell are u talkign about? You cant possibly make an assessment already


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Isnt Biedrins on the injured list


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>AdamIllman</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> i've agreed with a lot of the things i've seen you post on here but Biedrins is 18...what the hell are u talkign about? You cant possibly make an assessment already


I think he was being sarcastic.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>AdamIllman</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> i've agreed with a lot of the things i've seen you post on here but Biedrins is 18...what the hell are u talkign about? You cant possibly make an assessment already


sarcasm


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Araujo breaking down already (told ya)*



> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Dont forget he's a foul machine he has more fouls than points in the season 5 fouls 2-8 fg


oh man...what...a...hater...


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Araujo breaking down already (told ya)*



> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> oh man...what...a...hater...


I'm not a hater I was expecting the best of him. If he was the most ready player Center coming from the Drfat why so many people is thinking he's a project ???


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Araujo breaking down already (told ya)*



> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> And why he's not playing ? not because Mitchell is using Donny at center is not that Araujo probably has show nothing on the practice and when a 6'9 (Donny) play at center over you (Araujo 6'11 290lbs+) is because you suck...


yes thank you:

Reasons why he is not playing.
1. He is not following the plan (15 footers are not what he is being asked to do)

2. He is a very poor defender

3. He is not a shot blocker

4. His post game is totally ineffective at this level 

5. He is injured.
=====================

for the record I think he could be a contributor in the league but not at 280-290 or what ever he is - at that weight his improvement will be forever impeded.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>AdamIllman</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> i've agreed with a lot of the things i've seen you post on here but Biedrins is 18...what the hell are u talkign about? You cant possibly make an assessment already


You did not get the " " then.

It was a sarcastic assertion showing how ludicrous the original post was.

18 or 24, big men take time.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 
> 18 or 24, big men take time.


If thats the case is not better take a 18 than a 24 ??? Lets pretend these big men need 3-4 yrs to develop is better have a 21-22 than a 27-28 isnt


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## Mike1155 (Apr 9, 2004)

I don't think Araujo has been handled well at all. They are being way too gentle with him. How is the kid supposed to develop,gain confidence & get used to the NBA game when his *** is on the bench all the time? You don't get used to the game, develop or gain confidence by watching. You do it from playing.When they do use him they don't even give the guy enough time. It's a couple of minutes & then back to the bench.


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## McFurious (Mar 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike1155</b>!
> I don't think Araujo has been handled well at all. They are being way too gentle with him. How is the kid supposed to develop,gain confidence & get used to the NBA game when his *** is on the bench all the time? You don't get used to the game, develop or gain confidence by watching. You do it from playing.When they do use him they don't even give the guy enough time. It's a couple of minutes & then back to the bench.


Agree totally... I really believe once Araujo gains confidence in his game he will be a force to be reckoned with.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Araujo breaking down already (told ya)*



> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm not a hater I was expecting the best of him. If he was the most ready player Center coming from the Drfat why so many people is thinking he's a project ???


Because they're not all that bright. I think it's obvious, at this point, that Araujo is not a true project big man (see Diop). Araujo can play NBA minutes (just because he's not getting them doesn't mean he can't play them) right away because he has a good combination of strength and speed at that position. If you're capable of starting in your second season you are NOT a project big man and Araujo is definitely capable of starting next season. He has not been embarassed during his time on the court, at last not from what I've seen, and has made some nice plays.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> If thats the case is not better take a 18 than a 24 ??? Lets pretend these big men need 3-4 yrs to develop is better have a 21-22 than a 27-28 isnt


Not necessarily. There is both up and down with either. 18, you are not mature physically, or mentally in general. While you can project, no one knows how someone so young will mature. See kwame, eddy and tyson. Physically you may have to hope your big fills out. Hopefully your 24 year old is mature in both aspects and only has to get experience with the higher competition.

More upside with one, less downside with another, IMO.


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## ABC (Nov 4, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike1155</b>!
> I don't think Araujo has been handled well at all. They are being way too gentle with him. How is the kid supposed to develop,gain confidence & get used to the NBA game when his *** is on the bench all the time? You don't get used to the game, develop or gain confidence by watching. You do it from playing.When they do use him they don't even give the guy enough time. It's a couple of minutes & then back to the bench.


Uh, he isn't playing because the coach feels he is not good enough to play. On top of that, we want the Raps to win, not to play someone for the sake so he can "develop". 

Obviously, Mitchell knows something about Arujo that none of us knows. He lost the job to Woods, and yeah, Donyell played center instead of him. That says a lot.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 
> 
> Not necessarily. There is both up and down with either. 18, you are not mature physically, or mentally in general. While you can project, no one knows how someone so young will mature. See kwame, eddy and tyson. Physically you may have to hope your big fills out. Hopefully your 24 year old is mature in both aspects and only has to get experience with the higher competition.
> ...


Yeah they maybe dont have the mature physically, or mentally in general thats why the 18 yrs have 3-4 yrs to develop and be ready when they are 22 and for other side how much time will take until Ataujo is ready for the NBA ? Look at Jermaine O'neal his first yrs sucks big time but i dont and was in his fift yr when he show all the potencial when have 23 yrs.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Hey give the man a chance, there's too much pressure put on him, not only by us fans, but by himself as well. Tonight against the Knicks, he seemed very nervous, but he did battle inside, and he got some rebounds. It'll be intresting to see how he develops throughout the year.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> Hey give the man a chance, there's too much pressure put on him, not only by us fans, but by himself as well. Tonight against the Knicks, he seemed very nervous, but he did battle inside, and he got some rebounds. It'll be intresting to see how he develops throughout the year.


maybe his four PF tell me all


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jcintosun911</b>!
> he seemed very nervous, but he did battle inside, and he got some rebounds. It'll be intresting to see how he develops throughout the year.


I think you said it, he's still trying to do it all at once. He is a good rebounder, and a decent defender, he just needs to put himself in better prosition on Offense. Instead of trying to face up against someone 15 from the hoop he should be going for put backs and layups of dump offs. Stay by the hoop! He has to think of it this way - whoever he out there with there will always be 4 guys better than him at driving to the bucket!


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> maybe his four PF tell me all


Rookie big men simply get tons of fouls.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Araujo looked confused and out of position for a lot of his minutes tonight. He got great offensive rebounding position, poor defensive rebounding position. When he had the ball on offense, he was rushing, desperate, and tentative. When he made mistakes on the floor, such as letting the shot clock die (he shouldn't be given the ball with six seconds left, anyways) or when he committed some fouls on the defensive end, he automatically glanced over to see if Mitchell was accosting him.

Leo made a good point tonight in saying that Hoffa needs to relax, but he needs consistent playing time to reach that comfort level.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

i was one of the haters of the pick of Hoffa coming out of the draft, and i still think we should have taken Iguodala over him for sure.. but you have to give the big man some time.. 

he has looked lost so far, but has been suprisingly sturdy on defense, which was supposedly his weak point, and looks to have potential to be one of the better rebounding centres in the league.

and yeah leo was right, Hoffa needs to take it easy and stop putting so much pressure on himself.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hellbot</b>!
> i was one of the haters of the pick of Hoffa coming out of the draft, and i still think we should have taken Iguodala over him for sure


Perhaps they may have if Vince had voiced his trade demands earlier - at this time tho Igu seems like the best pick in the 8t spot.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> 
> 
> Perhaps they may have if Vince had voiced his trade demands earlier - at this time tho Igu seems like the best pick in the 8t spot.


I'm not so sure. We'd still have nothing developing at the center spot and Iguodala would be playing very limited minutes as well. Acquiring good wing players is a piece of cake compared to centers, who often have to be developed in-house unless you want to shell out a lot of money.


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## ABC (Nov 4, 2002)

ARe the posters here who are pro Arujo the same defenders for Moiso? Still saying, he needs pt, blah blah blah?


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ABC</b>!
> ARe the posters here who are pro Arujo the same defenders for Moiso? Still saying, he needs pt, blah blah blah?


you may be right - I will say this much tho - Moiso has flopped under all kinds of coaches (Rick Pitino, Silas, O'Neal, and now Mitchell)... I think we have seen the "best" of Jerome


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ABC</b>!
> ARe the posters here who are pro Arujo the same defenders for Moiso? Still saying, he needs pt, blah blah blah?


Not me. Moiso=bash, Araujo=defend.


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

I don't know what some of you are expecting from Araujo but the Raps didn't draft him to be a goto low post scorer or anything of the sort. They drafted him to rebound and play tough. The man gets good position on either end of the floor and sets a mean pick. When he was in the game the other night, shooters were getting wide open looks coming off screens he was setting. He isn't a guy that we can or should give the ball to with 5 secs left on the shot clock. If that does happen it's not his fault. It's bad offensive execution. He's also shown good defensive ability in his limited minutes. He's quick enough to keep other big men infront of him and easily strong enough to not get backed down in the post. He can be an effective player for us in the near future if given an opportunity to play. Yes, that right has to be earned and at times he looks a little confused but it has only been 13 games.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ABC</b>!
> ARe the posters here who are pro Arujo the same defenders for Moiso? Still saying, he needs pt, blah blah blah?


wtf? 

apples (moiso) and oranges (araujo)


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>djmyte</b>!
> I don't know what some of you are expecting from Araujo but the Raps didn't draft him to be a goto low post scorer or anything of the sort. They drafted him to rebound and play tough.


Well why waste an 8th over all pick on him then? Arch used to do the same thing for 1/10th of the price. I think that is why some fans feel a bit cheated.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> 
> 
> Well why waste an 8th over all pick on him then? Arch used to do the same thing for 1/10th of the price. I think that is why some fans feel a bit cheated.


I know you aren't necessarily comparing the two... but Arch and Hoffa?!

Hoffa will prove to be a competent low post scorer, IMO. He has all the tools, he just needs the confidence. He just way too anxious out there, but he obviously has nice hands and a good bball mind.

Hoffa will someday be our starting centre unless he is traded first.


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## ABC (Nov 4, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>trick</b>!
> 
> 
> wtf?
> ...


I was making the point that it seems to me that raptor fans will go through fire to defend our GM's pick, our draft picks or signings eventhough deep inside, we know they are not that good.

The fact was, we signed Moiso because his price tag was cheap and he had that one good playoff.

We drafted Arujo because he is supposed to defend and get rebounds, and to contribute pretty much right away, but he is not. I don't want to hear, well, in 4-5 years he be a starter.

I just dont like hearing unreasonable excuses.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ABC</b>!
> 
> We drafted Arujo because he is supposed to defend and get rebounds, and to *contribute pretty much right away*, but he is not. I don't want to hear, well, in 4-5 years he be a starter.


i sort of agree with this... completely- but i sort of don't. i absolutely agree with the fact that he was drafted for what he could do now and over the near term, not 5 years down the road. i mean, 5 years down the road? the guy was a senior who actually came out of college with a degree. the learning curve for him was expected to be relatively short. yes, it takes longer for big men to develop than wing men, but i don't consider _any_ college senior (no matter the position) to be a "project". 

at the same time, he has been given little to no opportunity this season, he may be the kind of player who only develops on the fly (but i'm not sure) and those who are looking to write a verdict from 13 games of garbage time are simply being impatient (imo). it's understandable for fans to do that, we _always_ do that- sometimes it takes just one game for fans to write off a player's value- and that's why you shouldn't necessarily listen to fans. 

yes, maybe araujo will end up a bust- after all, he's shown little to nothing of substance over the first month of the season- but that's just it: we're not even a month into the season. whether you liked the pick or you didn't, you gotta give the guy a chance, and unfortunately it usually takes longer than a month to give the player in question a chance (be it an 18-year old prodigy or a 30-year old dinosaur) to see how he can potentially fit in the future of the team. 

for that reason, i'll never judge a player from 13 games of (very limited) action. i don't think it's possible to do it accurately. i understand the tendency on the part of the fans to do just that, but theirs is rooted in _impatience_, not necessarily unhappiness. people hate waiting (see the vince carter fiasco- people can't wait for it to end!) but patience often has a payoff in the future.

on the other hand, i'm not prepared to wait 5 years for this guy (or any senior). the man was drafted to produce sooner than biedrins, jefferson, swift, etc., and if he doesn't, you can then express some reasonable regret at the selection. 

in a nutshell, i don't get the people who are defending the guy like he's done _something_, neither do i understand the people who are ready to label him a "bust" for doing _nothing_. 

i don't think you can draw a conclusion either way. 

peace


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## osman (Jul 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ballocks</b>!
> 
> 
> i sort of agree with this... completely- but i sort of don't. i absolutely agree with the fact that he was drafted for what he could do now and over the near term, not 5 years down the road. i mean, 5 years down the road? the guy was a senior who actually came out of college with a degree. the learning curve for him was expected to be relatively short. yes, it takes longer for big men to develop than wing men, but i don't consider _any_ college senior (no matter the position) to be a "project".
> ...


Well he probably isn't much better than Woods, or he would be starting over him. 

We should have drafted this guy :

http://www.hoopshype.com/articles/biedrins_hayes.htm


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>osman</b>!
> 
> 
> Well he probably isn't much better than Woods, or he would be starting over him.
> ...



Rule number 1 about drafting a center MAKE SURE HE IS NOT A DEFENSIVE LIABILTY. Your Center is your stopper, your helper the last line of defense. You need someone who can alter alot and block a few. 

What infuriated me about babcock is Hoffa was never quick, and played below the rim - so the extent of his defense was limted to rebounding position and making the other guys life hard when fighting for position.

Andris is 6 years younger way more agile, plays above the rim and has undeniable defensive instinks (many compared him to Kirilenko).

Time will not be kind to Babcock with this pick as the 04 draft grows up and we see what type of players these guys turn out to be.


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## McFurious (Mar 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Charlz---------->GET OVER IT


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>McFurious</b>!
> 
> 
> Charlz---------->GET OVER IT


not until notice has been served.


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## McFurious (Mar 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> 
> 
> not until notice has been served.


Its still waaaaaaay too early for that kind of talk.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>McFurious</b>!
> 
> 
> Its still waaaaaaay too early for that kind of talk.


I hope you are right - Hoffa looked good (for a rookie) tonight.


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> 
> 
> I hope you are right - Hoffa looked good (for a rookie) tonight.


I was dissapointed he didn't get any time in the second half, he handled himself well out there against Shaq. On the flip side Marshall was fantastic tonight, so he deserved to be out there.


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

Hoffa was drafted, supposedly, because he was able to make a contribution right away.

I never liked the pick. 

As a college player, he knew how to use the enormous advantage in size and strength over his opponents. That was the basis for his whole game, and that was something he clearly would not have at the NBA level.

I met Hoffa in a coffee shop across the road from the ACC.

He will have an NBA career, but as a journeyman. He is smart, hardworking and very, very strong. He has very good hands. One thing I liked about him in college was how well he shot his FTs. Well, despite limited minutes and confusion at all that, he is 8/8 from the stripe this year. Once he learns to power up in the post he will score more.

Probably the first fundamental in post defence is get a defensible position on the floor and hold it. Hoffa, with his strength, mass, and low center of gravity, excels at this. I guess it was not in his scouting report - because no-one in their right mind would try to post Hoffa up in college!

As a help defender / shot blocker he is woefully inadequate. He shuffles his feet and stays vertical- the fundamentals are there - but he simply doesn't have the tools to be a shotblocker, so its not surprising he never developed the timing.

He obviously sets a great screen. I think he can shoot the midrange jumper effectively, but Bonner has been so hot out to 20 feet that why would you not use him in that role? He runs really well for a 285 pound guy. But you know, that is still not that fast...

If you take his 90 minutes and project it as 3 30minute games, he would be averaging 4.3ppg and 7.3rpg, with 1 assist, 1.3 stls, no blocks, *3 TOs* and, oh wait, it cant be 3 30minute games because he'd be averaging *6.7 PFs per game!!!* 

He is not going to be a typical NBA player. Jahidi White comes to mind.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

He is going to be better than Jahidi White. Book it.

If given starters minutes I bet he could give us 10 and 10. Right now.

He'd just have to work on the fouls obviously.

He's never going to fulfill his 'lottery potential' but he could be a starting centre in this league for many teams IMO.


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

Jahidi White would get 10 and 10 with starters minutes.

When he was averaging around 20mpg he was roughly 8 and 8.

White can block shots, too. But can't shoot FTs.

I think they are roughly equivalent players. Of course, White was a 43rd pick.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> 
> It's not like Biedrins, Swift, or Jefferson have been doing much of anything so far either. However, you look at David Harrison being picked up so low by the Pacers and you have to wonder if we couldn't have come out with something more than a role-playing center.



:no: Al Jefferson is 19 straight out of high school yet he's playing about 15 minutes per game, he's rebounding well and he's scoring...already had 13 in a game. I don't call that not doing much...you are comparing Hoffa to Biedrins, Swift and Jefferson....all three of them are teenagers, not a good comparison at all.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

He only played 2 years of D1 ball at BYU. So relax, he does not have natural instincts that one gets from playing as a boy and up. He can be coached.

Time. Give him time. This group is heavy on development from within. Give them a chance.


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## Numbed One (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> He only played 2 years of D1 ball at BYU. So relax, he does not have natural instincts that one gets from playing as a boy and up. He can be coached.
> 
> Time. Give him time. This group is heavy on develiopment from within. Give them a chance.


Very good points.



> Originally posted by <b>The Mad Viking</b>!
> Jahidi White would get 10 and 10 with starters minutes.
> 
> When he was averaging around 20mpg he was roughly 8 and 8.
> ...


And I meant Araujo could give us 10 and 10 right now. In his rookie year. He is not yet at his peak skills-wise, unlike White.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

http://www.insidehoops.com/nba-pre-draft-interviews.shtml

Hoffa said predraft that he could go as high as 8. Why 8? Did he know he had a good workout with Toronto. They needed a C. Says he got good feedback on his mobility and shooting from ALL teams.

http://msn.foxsports.com/content/view?contentId=2457980

Pro scouting report from days at BYU. Fouls a lot. Takes good shots and makes'em. Moves well.


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## ABC (Nov 4, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> http://www.insidehoops.com/nba-pre-draft-interviews.shtml
> 
> Hoffa said predraft that he could go as high as 8. Why 8? Did he know he had a good workout with Toronto. They needed a C. Says he got good feedback on his mobility and shooting from ALL teams.
> ...


It's very disturbing to hear that scouts only draft after work outs?? If the player who is a top 3 draft had a bad workout and got beaten by a projected 20th pick, does that mean they should draft the 20th pick instead?

I heard that David Harrison got beaten by Arujo during the work outs that's why they drafted arujo instead. Pretty sad if thats how we determine how we pick draft picks.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

It's not sad at all. What better test than to put two guys on the court together and see how they match up? Compare quickness and skills.

You aren't allowed to run any 5 on 5 drills with these draftees.

It wasn't a Toronto workout where Hoffa killed Harrison, it was for some other team. And I watched him play a few games at BYU and was pretty impressed.

Harrisson showed some heart and really prepared himself for future workouts and has apparently kept on improving. But his draft stock fell dramatically because of bad workouts.

Al Jefferson will be a nice player, good scorer, but he is a PF and not a C. Kind of like a Zack Randolph. Al is only about 6'8" or so despite being listed bigger. Could be another Baxter.

Whether the Raps should take a good PF in spite of having Bosh is another question. Everyone will say draft the best talent and trade him for a C. What C? Half the teams in the league don't have a really good C. Look at the nba stats and see how few rebounders get more than 9 or 10 a game.

Biedrins is also a PF and not getting any play in GS. Bosh is our PF and our shotblocker. Most blocks come from off the ball anyway. Very rare to block your own man's shot in the paint. We didnt' get Hoffa to block shots.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lucky777s</b>!
> 
> It wasn't a Toronto workout where Hoffa killed Harrison, it was for some other team. And I watched him play a few games at BYU and was pretty impressed.


True.

Harrison has shown well so far in Indiana getting more minutes on a better team - huh?
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/david_harrison/index.html 


...ok I could be wrong perhaps all the evidence that suggests it may not have been the best pick (Hoffa) is wrong... but every indication so far is that there are a few players who would be helping the Raps a little more by now.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>charlz</b>!
> 
> 
> True.
> ...


Such as? David Harrison? No thanks. Biedrins? No. Swift? No. Iguodala? No.

Hoffa's coming along just fine.


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## ColinBeehler (Oct 14, 2003)

*HOFFA!*

Okay.. Here is my take on the "situation"

Rob Babcock made the right decision by drafting Araujo over the big men we have been talking about.

Babcock's number one reason for drafting him, was that he was "the most NBA ready big man available." NOT HOWEVER! an "NBA ready big man..." notice the difference? Araujo will be ready to be a significant ROLE PLAYER in say... One year, two years, or maybe 60 games. Who knows. However, Al Jefferson, Biedrins, David Harrison(more to come on him). May not be ready for 3 years, 4 years, or 2 years. WHO KNOWS! The thing about a rookie draft, is that they are just that. Rookies. You can't make your decisions based on a year of playing on an NBA team. There is no 20/20 hindsight.

From what was being said around draft time... Araujo gave Harrison a helluva whoopin. If I remember Harrison's agent stopped the work out because he got owned so badly. Harrison was supposed to be lazy, and have a poor attitude.

One player HOFFA reminds me A LOT of, as far as skillset, and body etc. Brad Miller. Slow, strong, gritty, good rebounder, good passer, nothing to scream about as far as scoring. But hey, who cares. I honestly think, that Araujo could turn out to be a.... 12-15ppg, 9-11rpg type of player.

If my dreams come true. Just imagine the T-Raps future.... think 2002-2003 Pacers. Jermaine O'neal scores big. Brad Miller throws wild fists at Shaq and makes sure no one touches JO... Among other things, such as playing great "D" while not blocking many shots, and passing the ball very well.

Now think.... 2005-2006 Raptors. Bosh scores big, Araujo's in there with his mean streak, throwing elbows. Passing well, and playing great "D" while not blocking many shots... How many games will they win?

Thats my take.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

*Re: HOFFA!*



> Originally posted by <b>ColinBeehler</b>!
> 
> One player HOFFA reminds me A LOT of, as far as skillset, and body etc. Brad Miller. Slow, strong, gritty, good rebounder, good passer, nothing to scream about as far as scoring. But hey, who cares. I honestly think, that Araujo could turn out to be a.... 12-15ppg, 9-11rpg type of player.
> 
> ...


Thats EXACTLY what I think and what I said earlier on when someone said he doesn't compare to Brad Miller at all.

Both are actually really similar, and they both had good young PF's playing next to them, only hopefully Araujo sticks around longer than Miller did in Indiana.

I mean they are both tough gritty guys, that like to get into the post and hustle for offensive boards. They both are capable of hitting that midrange jump shot. Both have good vision and passing skills especially for big men. And both play good defense, which supposedly was Araujos weak point (once he gets the fouls under control, it'll be fine)


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

I watched almost every single game of Araujo's while he was at BYU, but I have only seen him play in 1 Raptor game, so I don't have a feel for how you guys are using him.

He was a great scorer in college, but now it seems like you guys only use for him screens and intimidation. 

I realize that he does not have the same size advantage that he had in college, but he is still strong enough that he should be able to get good position, and he has a very soft touch. When he gets the ball in the post, he isn't a player like Shaq who throws his body around and tries to thunder it down on everybody. He didn't dunk that often in college, even when he was wide open.

In college he would get good position and then go up for a jumphook or a lay in, and he got to the line a lot where he was a good ft shooter. I realize that this was in college, but I still think he should be used more as a scorer in the low post. He has the strength to get good position. 

And speaking on the Miller comparison's...I don't see much of a comparison. Hoffa is much bigger than Miller, and much more of a low post player. Miller has more passing and shooting skill, and operates better out of the high post. (Although BYU didn't use Hoffa in the high post, so I am not totally sure of how well he would do)

Again, I am basing this off of what I saw of Hoffa in a lot of college games, but I do think you guys are using him the wrong way if you are trying to make him an enforcer (screens, hard fouls)who only shoots an occasional 15 ft jumper and never tries to score in the post.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Wilt_The_Stilt</b>!
> I watched almost every single game of Araujo's while he was at BYU, but I have only seen him play in 1 Raptor game, so I don't have a feel for how you guys are using him.
> 
> He was a great scorer in college, but now it seems like you guys only use for him screens and intimidation.
> ...


Hoffa came in "wanting to do everything" and apparently the coaching staff had to reign him in a bit. 

I think he's really worked on his shooting, as that was one facet of his game that lead to such stellar workouts. He wants to shoot from outside, near the college three-point line. I think he'll become one of the best shooting centers in the league, given some time.

Recently Hoffa has been doing a pretty good job with his defense and positioning, and has been setting some wicked screens. He doesn't have a lot of confidence scoring around the basket yet and has been blocked a few times on turnarounds and hooks. Picking up fouls, he thankfully isn't just hacking, he has been pretty good at getting his arms up straight but when guys bounce off him he hasn't been getting the calls. 

I, for one, am so glad that we got our center at the number 8 pick in a relatively weak draft. He didn't come in ready to start but he'll be good to go next season.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> Hoffa came in "wanting to do everything" and apparently the coaching staff had to reign him in a bit.
> 
> I think he's really worked on his shooting, as that was one facet of his game that lead to such stellar workouts. He wants to shoot from outside, near the college three-point line. I think he'll become one of the best shooting centers in the league, given some time.
> ...


Thanks for the heads up.

I'm not saying that he doesn't set good screens or that he can't be a tough rebounder, but I think he can be a low post scorer, which I think is something you guys could use.

I know he has a low release on his shots...but I don't understand why he is getting his low-post shots blocked. Is he not getting good position?

Again, thanks for the info.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

I don't recall his shot being blocked.

It's more about his footwork and dealing with the strength and physicality of his defender.

Hoffa doesn't have a variety of post moves. Really limited to a right hand jumphook or running hook, and a turnaround J.

I like the running hook but he has been called on some offensive fouls doing it.

Not like he has gotten many touches inside anyway. He tends to get away from the paint to set picks and then wants to shoot the J which Mitchell does not want from him.

We need to keep him in the paint area.

The offense needs to use him in the low post and run cutters off of him. This will ease the physical play by his defender who has to look to switch on a handoff. Hoffa passes pretty well and we should use that.

Problem seems to be that our offense is built around the skills of Marshall, Bosh, and Bonner who play completely different games than Araujo.

We need new plays that use Hoffa properly when he is on the floor.


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

charlz his back is hurting him so much that he's starting geez he's breaking down fast..


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## McFurious (Mar 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> charlz his back is hurting him so much that he's starting geez he's breaking down fast..


Charlz and every Hoffa hater dont no ---- about basketball. 

Someone who calls a rookie specially a center a bust into what 10-15 games into the season with something like 5mins per game doesnt no smack about development or basketball IMO.

Im just glaid Hoffa is proving them wrong.


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## 2pac (Nov 19, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> 
> 
> Such as? David Harrison? No thanks. Biedrins? No. Swift? No. Iguodala? No.
> ...


Iguodala is much better then any off them can will have a break out year within the next 1-2years un like the rest. Also how about Al Jefferson??? We could've drafted him as our C/PF who is now playing with Boston.


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>2pac</b>!
> 
> 
> Iguodala is much better then any off them can will have a break out year within the next 1-2years un like the rest. Also how about Al Jefferson??? We could've drafted him as our C/PF who is now playing with Boston.



break out year? i think not man iggy is not going to be nothing special the only guys that i can see being amazing are jr smith josh smith emeka and dwight maybe i'm missing some guys lol


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