# Iverson proud of impact on society..



## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

> Allen Iverson is proud of his accomplishments on the basketball court.
> 
> He has plenty of reasons to be, since he was MVP of the 2000-01 NBA season and that year's All-Star Game, as well as a three-time scoring champion and 2004 U.S. Olympian. On Thursday night, he was named an Eastern Conference starting guard for the sixth straight NBA All-Star Game.
> 
> ...


LINK


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PhillyPhanatic</b>!
> 
> 
> LINK


Definitley a good read and one of the main reasons I have always been a fan of his


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

he's so very well-spoken and unique, i certainly can't think of another player like him. 

i just wonder how he's going to _think_ in 20/30 years. i mean, he's the kind of man who'll never seem to grow old- but at some point, he'll have no choice in the matter (knock on wood). so how will he age? will he change his outlook with time? will he change anything?

or is this the dawn of the "old children" (pardon the oxymoron)- with allen iverson as one of the pioneers in the movement? will 60 year-olds be more socially accepted 30 years from now than they currently are? will there be less of a division in our world?

how will the "time versus iverson" battle evolve? 

i can't wait to see this world into the new age- it'll be fascinating... and allen will be just one of the reasons why.

peace


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## chewgum (Nov 3, 2004)

I think Iverson represents a very successful individual and his success is annedoctal at best when comparing to the bigger society.

First of all, Iverson is very fortunate to be where he is today, mainly due to his ability to play basketball in a society with major corporations wanting to push the sport for their capitalistic gains. But playing basketball for a living is a very limited venue for most African Americans. Sure, when those blacks who do succeed, they become "superstar" and become enormously rich. But what are they a superstar of? To me, they are superstars of the big corporations, not of society.

And the article made it sounds like that Iverson is the sole person who takes Hip Hop to a whole new level, now that he got the cops doning rows and baggies. Really? Is this a mass movement for cops and just another annedoctal story like Iverson is? And furthemore, I consider guys who rapped in the early 80s out of their basement as the original trailblzers for hip hop today.

I just don't see so much culture in Hip Hop as I see it as a cash-cow for corporations. And it amazes me that a handful of rappers and ballers who manage to become rich and living in multimillion dollar estates can think that another black in their situation 20 years ago would have an equal chance to become rich and famous. I would bet that statistically speaking, children with similar backgrounds to Iverson would have a better chance becoming drug addicts or grocery baggers than they do becoming "superstars" making 7 to 8 figure salary.

If Iverson, or any black ballers, are serious about helping his people, then they should tell their kids to focus on education first, and basketball second. The trend I see is that it's more trendy for young black 10-15 y/o kids to say "I wanna be like this and this baller" than to say "I wanna be like Martin Luther King". And when you look at the student bodies of pratically all colleges America, the African American population is still grossly under-represented despite affirmative action rules recruiting these kids. And when you get to the graduate level, blacks are practically non-existent, especially in the sciences and engineering. Sure there maybe a token black in an MBA or Law program at most grad school, but like Iverson, they are simply annedoctal.

And if one compares the recent achievement of African Americans to the Asian Immigrants in say the last 3 decades, then it's quite clear that the Asians in general are a cut above and it just so happens that in most Asian society, education is a strong theme. And in fact, Asian Americans today represents the highest per capita income earning segment in the US. But you hardly find any glamoured stories of successful Asian Americans, instead, they just keep on pushing their base higher while remaing content to be the average Joe American.

Well, I'm not here to degrade or glorify any group, but I just don't understand the fascination with making role model out of rich athletes. And please don't tell me that if you wear cornrows and baggies to a job interview will get the hiring manager to look at you as a creative individual. It has to be understood that Iverson, like most so-called superstars in the media/entertainment/sport business, are corporate cash-cows, and that they are developed and pushed by corporations. In fact, the phenomenon of using athletes (and moviestars) as symbols of material success is a modern phenomenon that happened within the last 20 years due to the explosion of mass media advertising and broadcasting.

So no, I don't and probably will never look at Iverson as an influential figure in society. Heck, most white basketball fans outside of Philly probably still look at him as another tat-up punk. (And please don't tell me Iverson popularized the art of body tattooing).


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*I couldn't agree more*

Iverson has a gift. He should use it to help, not just to get $$$.

I think Allen Iverson and others owe their success to the sacrifices made by people like Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King, Jackie Robinson, Larry Doby, the players from Texas Western, Bill Russell, etc.

Unlike them, he chooses to continue to revel in his own glory, not lift his people up. 

More blacks aged 18-22 are in jail not college. For those who do not have lightning quickness and a jump shot, something other than basketball must be considered "cool."

I agree with the NBA instituting a minimum age of 20. For society's sake.


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## dk1115 (Aug 27, 2004)

You said almost exactly I was thinking, but do you really expect anyone from a sport or entertainment industry to change this problem? The problem of kids wanting to be these people starts from their parents. As an Asian American, I can say that I look up to my parents as role models, and I can confirm that most Asian Americans do look up to their parents, who do value education. Not to be racist, but most blacks do live in a ghetto. I have thought about this for years. How can you take someone who has grown up in that kind of environment and believe that it is a one step process to getting out of the ghetto? How can you make them believe that education is the way? 

To add to your education point, however, I'd say that the potential of alot of african americans in education is enormous, but it never really ends up showing, because our grade school system is one of the worst in the world. To add to that, practical and daily happenings prevent african americans from succeeding. Did you know that most black kids don't show their intelligence in fear that other kids will make fun of them?


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## djtoneblaze (Nov 22, 2004)

Seriously, Iverson doesn't owe anything to anybody. He's actually helped Black people a lot.

And why would attempting to become he next Martin Luther King Jr. be a better goal than attempting to be the next Allen Iverson if the reasoning is that few people can become basketball players anyway? How many Black kids are going to reach the political levels of Dr. King or Louis Farrakhan?


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## NyXpun (Apr 22, 2004)

this whole thing about basketball and hip hop isnt the problem. its the system thats the problem.
dont blame basketball players etc for not doing things for the community. blame the government for not caring. most of the ppl in poverty dont get to be successful because they are never really given a chance. bad education, bad neighborhoods, biased police, etc. 
it would be nice if ppl like iverson did that kinda stuff more but its not their problem. go ask the government to actually do somthing


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

> Iverson has a gift. He should use it to help, not just to get $$$.


Who are you to judge how anybody should live their lives? Allen Iverson doesn't owe **** to ANYBODY. If he wants to make as much money as he can, and not share it with anybody, that's his God given right. 




> I think Allen Iverson and others owe their success to the sacrifices made by people like Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King, Jackie Robinson, Larry Doby, the players from Texas Western, Bill Russell, etc.
> 
> Unlike them, he chooses to continue to revel in his own glory, not lift his people up. QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

Jeez that made me mad. But one more thing.

Don't call hip hop the problem or carelessly throw it around in your threads unless you understand it. Because you've never seen hip hop on TV before. It's never been on MTV, and rarely on BET either. And the chances are, you've never heard hip hop in any rap you've heard before. If you want to find out what hip hop is, listen to Black Star's K.O.S.(Determination) or NWA's Express Yourself. Read my sig. Or better yet, listen to a high schooler from the city who get's straight A's, is going to college, and will STILL kick your ***.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

As a white kid, I've found Iverson inspiring, in the context that he has always stayed true to who he is. He's proven you can be successfull in your chosen field by doing it your own way, provided you've got the heart to make it work.

I also have always found Iverson to be one of the most interesting people. Just the little tidbits that creap out about him, make him really fascinating. I'm really interested also in his how artistic he actually is. Beyond rapping, he also is something of an artist in the drawing sense. I've heard he routinely will draw his teammates to pass the time. And I just think that's a side of Iverson that is really intriguing. I think he hides a lot of himself from the mainstream media, but that he is a good guy. I've never heard teammates say anything bad about him off the court. In fact he's one of the more well-liked athletes in sports among his peers.

I think there's a perception of Iverson, but then there's the reality of Iverson. And the reality would probably really shock a lot of the people who have him type cast as just a dumb jock thug.


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## SirCharles34 (Nov 16, 2004)

*Gotta come to AI's defense*



> Originally posted by <b>chewgum</b>!
> Iverson is very fortunate to be where he is today, mainly due to his ability to play basketball in a society with major corporations wanting to push the sport for their capitalistic gains. But what are they a superstar of? To me, they are superstars of the big corporations, not of society.


And that is your opinion. Last time I checked, we were living in a free-market society. Iverson has skills and is an icon in a very popular sport, so why knock him just b/c he’s making $ selling and promoting his image? It sounds like jealousy to me. At least he’s not a slave to the corporations, he’s not donning a suit & tie when he appears in commercials or at an awards benefit dinner. He accepted his MVP award wearing sweats, a du-rag, and tennis shoes. He’s doing it on his terms, not theirs. And that’s why I like him so much. Why the knock on Capitalism? The system's not perfect but ask Yao Ming what it's like living in Communist ****ing China? If AI were in China, he would make the commercials the Chinese want him to make. 


> And the article made it sounds like that Iverson is the sole person who takes Hip Hop to a whole new level, now that he got the cops doning rows and baggies. Really? Is this a mass movement for cops and just another annedoctal story like Iverson is?


I think you missed the point here. It simply states how Iverson helped elevate the culture of hip-hop to be more accepting in mainstream society. Blacks are no longer singled out and looked upon as a suspect criminal just b/c you’re wearing corn rows.


> I just don't see so much culture in Hip Hop as I see it as a cash-cow for corporations. And it amazes me that a handful of rappers and ballers who manage to become rich and living in multimillion dollar estates can think that another black in their situation 20 years ago would have an equal chance to become rich and famous. I would bet that statistically speaking, children with similar backgrounds to Iverson would have a better chance becoming drug addicts or grocery baggers than they do becoming "superstars" making 7 to 8 figure salary.


Yeah, a cash-cow just like any other money making phenomenon in society today. William Chung, American Idol cast-off, is a cash-cow for corporations making $ off his likeness. So what, that’s capitalism. He was a starving student, now he’s got some cash in his pockets. You make it sound like if McDonalds or Coke came knocking on your door to do a commercial, you’d turn them down b/c your not down w/ the corporate thing. And I think that’s Bull****.


> If Iverson, or any black ballers, are serious about helping his people, then they should tell their kids to focus on education first, and basketball second.


How do you know what they are telling and not telling their kids. It's a socioeconomic problem in America. And I can assure you that Iverson gives back a lot of his $ to help his community and the less fortunate. Just like Barkley, AI doesn’t advertise to the media every time he makes a big donation or visit sick kids in hospitals. He’s not like that - calling attention to himself. 


> I just don't understand the fascination with making role model out of rich athletes. It has to be understood that Iverson, like most so-called superstars in the media/entertainment/sport business, are corporate cash-cows, and that they are developed and pushed by corporations. In fact, the phenomenon of using athletes (and moviestars) as symbols of material success is a modern phenomenon that happened within the last 20 years due to the explosion of mass media advertising and broadcasting.


And your point is....
I just told you earlier, Iverson does it his way. He’s not pushed by corporations or the media. If anything, it’s the other way around. The media tried to airbrush his tattoos from magazines and the corps tried to get him to change his hip-hop image to cater to more white people. But he didn’t and stayed true to himself. Based on your theories, why don’t you just come out and call him a sell-out b/c that’s what your thread is saying.


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## SirCharles34 (Nov 16, 2004)

*Re: I couldn't agree more*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> I agree with the NBA instituting a minimum age of 20. For society's sake.


Why are you denying a man the right to make a living? 

This is a free country. Would you put an age limit on a braniac who wants to skip college to work for Microsoft straight out of high school? 

Everyday people across the country is forgoing college to directly go into the nation's workforce. As long as it's not breaking child labor laws, what's the big fcuking deal. 

Everyone's harping on NBA players, but no ones mentioning 15yr olds playing pro tennis??????????????


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: I couldn't agree more*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> 
> 
> I agree with the NBA instituting a minimum age of 20. For society's sake.


Please tell me why an 18 year old entering the NBA would Do something bad for "society". Also if thats the case, lets make the enlisting age into the army 20 years old and also when you go to get a real job, you cant until you are 20. Lets see how that bowls over


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## jaja (Jan 4, 2005)

why do people always have to be jealous of blacks? if asians had the skill blacks did they would be in sports. the fact is they dont, thats why they dont play sports. dont try to play it off like 'they are content to blah blah blah.' if thats the case why are they bananas over yao.

the black experience and the asian experince has been very different in this country so you can't compare it. if you want to compare blacks and asians with similar situations and how they have fare, compare blacks that didnt come here as slaves. africans in this country and in the UK out perform asians academically. in fact africans are the most educated of any immigrant group in this country.

http://oriole.umd.edu/~mddlmddl/791.../africanmd.html

http://www.uwec.edu/Geography/Ivoge...88/datarace.htm


frankly for a group that has been enslaved longer than they have been free, african americans have done alot to create culture in this country. from american classical music (jazz) to pop music and culture, hip hop, break dance and fashion to entertainment and sports, science and invention and political discourse (the whole civial rights movement) these mere 12% of the population have brought a lot to it. Iverson is carrying on that tradition of not assimilating to the lager culture but making the larger culture assimilate to you. my impression of asian culture is they'd rather assimilate. two different ways. dont hate.

Iverson isnt fortunate to make the money he makes. the media is fortunante to have him. if you dont believe me, then why is the NHL is a lockout. if they had exciting players like AI in thier league thier revunue would be higher. those businesses need people like AI. dont get it twisted. your entire post is racist. blacks in MBA programs and law program are from from anecdotal. i just graduated law school so I know. can the numbers be higher? yes, of course. but they are not anecdotal. I dont know where you gget the racist thought that blacks dont tell thier kids to focus on education. you claimed to have talked to these black kids about wanting to be basketball players yeah right. what black kids have you ever spoken to, other than the ones you tried to lynch.


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## djtoneblaze (Nov 22, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>jaja</b>!
> why do people always have to be jealous of blacks? if asians had the skill blacks did they would be in sports. the fact is they dont, thats why they dont play sports. dont try to play it off like 'they are content to blah blah blah.' if thats the case why are they bananas over yao.
> 
> the black experience and the asian experince has been very different in this country so you can't compare it. if you want to compare blacks and asians with similar situations and how they have fare, compare blacks that didnt come here as slaves. africans in this country and in the UK out perform asians academically. in fact africans are the most educated of any immigrant group in this country.
> ...


The thread starter is a certified idiot, there's no doubt about that.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

All the guy who started the thread did was post an article than was already online


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

I think a ton of people read chewgum's post and got enraged which lead to unneeded hostility. No need to call anyone racist, because when that's the crutch your argument leans on, the argument itself needs help. I think we should be at a point where an opinion can be debated maturely.

I don't agree with everything chewgum stated, like I think there is a hip-hop community that lies beneath everything that is being sold as a corporate cash-cow. Hip-hop isn't gang members throwing up their set on videos, who trailblaze the latest trend in rap, it's deeper than that.

Allen Iverson being used as a marketing tool is in part a credit to Iverson's stubborness to not become something that wasn't him. And as proven in this country, if you buck the trend and become successful, you become the trend and they sell you (or facsimiles). I think Allen Iverson doesn't need to be a role model in terms of Martin Luther King or Malcom X, because not everyone needs the same kind of role model, nor do they find motivation in the same ways. Iverson's success in basketball (no I don't want to trade him sliccat  ) is a motivating tool that can cross several platforms, not only on an athletic level, and the path he took is something many can relate to.

We can't point at what he gives (or doesn't give) to charity, because there are no numbers and really.. who are we to judge? What I got from reading the original article I quoted, was Iverson looking back at all the trivial things that he was knocked for becoming more accepted now that he was a success. I don't think he was for a moment holding up these minor changes as being a watershed moment in black history, because he's far smarter than that.

Also it's almost impossible to compare the Asian and Black success rates, because the situations are definitely different for the most part. I think everyone came into this thread, and made great points, but many of them were lost in anger and name calling.

I always felt that the role of a role model is to inspire, not for them to be a figure which a person emulates, so who's to say a person who watches Iverson and looks up to him, doesn't have the desire to make more of a change for blacks in America in a political standpoint?

Like always, when I get into long posts, I ramble.. and lost my train of thought, so I'll cut it off right here.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Better to be a fool an keep quiet, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. 

Iverson doesn't cow-tow to the Beast and for that he'll always have my utmost respect. Just say no to an age limit. For the good of society? Give me a ****ing break.


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## ABC (Nov 4, 2002)

Hong Kong Fooey said:


> Better to be a fool an keep quiet, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
> 
> Iverson doesn't cow-tow to the Beast and for that he'll always have my utmost respect. Just say no to an age limit. For the good of society? Give me a ****ing break.


America is such a funny society.

You make any negative remarks about Jewish people=you are anti-semetic

Jews killing Palestanians= ok cuz they are not jews.

Jews making fun of all other races=ok, but u can't make fun of us or you're anti-semetic. 

White people making fun of blacks=white people are racist

black people making fun of whites=comedy, and accepted in main stream media  

Asians making fun of blacks=Asians are racist.

blacks calling blacks the "N" word=it's cool man, we are brothas

black people making fun of asians=it's acceptable cuz Blacks can't be racist  

Any race making fun of Jews=you're racist and anti-semetic, you'll never work on the radio or TV again.

Funny society.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

I find allen iverson inspiring because he is six feet tall and leads the NBA in scoring. 
I think that is why so many people (regardless of race) admire him.
He not only plays in the NBA, but he is an icon, like Micheal Jordan, or Julius Erving. 
If Iverson has done anything to help black people it is not to conform to the suit and tie, like MJ did so that he could sell more shoes. But then again, i wouldn't really say that iverson has really "helped society." His hip hop image is used as a marketing tool.

And why does everyone critisize athletes for not emphasizing the importance of education? Education isn't what got them there. So why does saying "stay in school" mean anything when it is coming from someone like AI. Please.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

ABC said:


> America is such a funny society.
> 
> You make any negative remarks about Jewish people=you are anti-semetic
> 
> ...



I don't know why you're quoting my post, but where did I say blacks can't be racist? Was that in my post? I don't know why you're giving me the history lesson on America. You want to make fun of Jews, be my guest, I don't care, but when their anti-defamation league comes down on you, that's your problem. 

Jews run the media, so you think anti-Jewish comments are going to fly? You're delusional then.


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## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

ABC said:


> America is such a funny society.
> 
> You make any negative remarks about Jewish people=you are anti-semetic
> 
> ...


 I find myself agreeing with a lot of the things you say, but as Hong Kong said, quoting his message was out of context.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

dk1115 said:


> You said almost exactly I was thinking, but do you really expect anyone from a sport or entertainment industry to change this problem? The problem of kids wanting to be these people starts from their parents. As an Asian American, I can say that I look up to my parents as role models, and I can confirm that most Asian Americans do look up to their parents, who do value education. Not to be racist, but most blacks do live in a ghetto. I have thought about this for years. How can you take someone who has grown up in that kind of environment and believe that it is a one step process to getting out of the ghetto? How can you make them believe that education is the way?
> 
> To add to your education point, however, I'd say that the potential of alot of african americans in education is enormous, but it never really ends up showing, because our grade school system is one of the worst in the world. To add to that, practical and daily happenings prevent african americans from succeeding. Did you know that most black kids don't show their intelligence in fear that other kids will make fun of them?



Most blacks don't live in the ghetto.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

ABC said:


> America is such a funny society.
> 
> You make any negative remarks about Jewish people=you are anti-semetic
> 
> ...



You can ***** and moan all you want, but it all has to do with power. White people are in power (and have been for centuries) and other groups aren't. That's the bottom line.


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

RoddneyThaRippa said:


> You can ***** and moan all you want, but it all has to do with power. White people are in power (and have been for centuries) and other groups aren't. That's the bottom line.


1. You couldn't have come up with a dumber response if you tried.

2. This is getting really off the subject of Allen Iverson's impact on society.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

sliccat said:


> 2. This is getting really off the subject of Allen Iverson's impact on society.


I agree, and to stop things from going too far off topic, I'll lock it.


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