# We have the 3rd pick!!!



## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

In the Second Round, that is. 

LINK 

I didn't know this, but as part of that Raptors/Lakers trade...the two teams swapped Second Round picks in this year's draft. Therefore, the Lakers will get the 3rd pick in the Second Round, and the Raptors will get the 24th!

This is great! The Lakers can snag a really good player right here.:yes:


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

BTW...I'd just like to say that I'd love it if the Lakers drafted both Villanueva (or Outlaw) and Lang.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

stupid LA:upset:


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## rynobot (Oct 10, 2002)

Dantahy Jones
James Lang
Charlie Villenuiveu


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> stupid LA:upset:


:uhoh:


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## cmd34 (Jul 17, 2002)

*Thanks.*

Damian..thanks for the scoop. I had no clue. NBAdraft.net and realgm.com don't even have this under their "traded picks" section.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Marcus Banks or Troy Bell, forget developing players.


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## cmd34 (Jul 17, 2002)

*Marcus Banks*

Marcus Banks would be sweeeeet with that pick but I think he's going to work himself into the 1st round. This draft seems strongest at PF and PG... our two biggest needs.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

With our first pick we should take a PG like Banks, or Marcus Moore who could contribute right away. PJ likes his guards big and Marcus is 6'6. With our second pick I think we should take a backup center, mabye Lang or even Chris Marcus to develop behind Shaq-we have some time before Shaq is done.


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## cmd34 (Jul 17, 2002)

*Banks vs Moore*

I saw Marcus Moore a few times and he reminds me of Jeryl Sasser. He's too big for college PG's and too quick for most college SG's. Sasser has yet to impress in the NBA.

Banks really impressed me and I ended up taping and watching the rest of his televised games. He is strong for his size and very fast. Unlike a lot of superquick guards though he always seemed to have great control and balance.

In the second round I think we now have a chance to get a quality player who slips out of the 1st round(Brian Cook?) or take a chance on a prospect like Villanueava or Lang. I know Phil doesn't play young kids but Phil won't be here in three years when the high school kid is ready to step up.


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## Lakers_32_4ever (Dec 30, 2002)

I think at 24, it would be smartest to draft a strong power forward prospect who would become a solid scorer, not as much a power game type. So, I think we should select Rickert, or Cabarkapa. Other nice options here could include Beasley, as a very solid player, or Barbosa, as the good point guard we need, although Fisher is stepping it up. A stretch here would be Outlaw as an explosive young athlete scorer.

At 32, we should take one of the following:

Center: James Lang 
Power Forward: Josh Powell, Jerome Beasley, Brian Cook, 
Small Forward: Charlie Villanueva, Kyle Korver, 
Shooting Guard: NA
Point Guard: Zoran Planinic, Marcus Moore, Marcus Banks,


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## sylaw (Nov 7, 2002)

Korver's way too slow for the NBA. He's a good shooter but will have a tough time getting his own shot. He's also a liability on defense. We don't need more spot-up shooters. We need someone who can at least create his own shot.


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## cmd34 (Jul 17, 2002)

*Korver*

I agree Korver is another Madsen pick. I'm not saying Korver is as bad as Madsen, more that Korver is probably as good as he is going to get like Madsen was when we drafted him. We shouldn't be afraid to draft for potential.


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## Lakers_32_4ever (Dec 30, 2002)

Yes, I understand that, but c'mon. It is the Lakers we are talking about. For them, he is a possibility. They are just dumb like that.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

If Outlaw falls I'd jump all over him. I'd sign a bunch of vets to win now and develop these youngsters for 2-3 years down the road.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: Korver*



> Originally posted by <b>cmd34</b>!
> I agree Korver is another Madsen pick. I'm not saying Korver is as bad as Madsen, more that Korver is probably as good as he is going to get like Madsen was when we drafted him. We shouldn't be afraid to draft for potential.


We shouldn't be afraid to draft for potential, if we didn't have immedate needs. Right Korver isn't going to get much better, but we don't need spot up shooters. Lakers can get a estabilished guard that can create his own shot at either pick. Some talented guys always slip because of the dreaded "shooting guard in a point gaurds body" tag. Kobe is essentially the Lakers point guard so the Lakers don't have to worry about that.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> If Outlaw falls I'd jump all over him. I'd sign a bunch of vets to win now and develop these youngsters for 2-3 years down the road.


Exactly, I feel the same way.

We should sign Shaw for one more year (if he wants to play 1 more) and stash him on the IR to only be played when someone else is injured. We should try hard to sign Malone or Howard, Clark and Pippen.

Then, we should draft two of these guys...James Lang, Travis Outlaw, Charlie Villanueva, Chris Marcus, Marcus Banks:yes:


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## Lakers_32_4ever (Dec 30, 2002)

Outlaw won't fall. someone will gamble.


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## sylaw (Nov 7, 2002)

I'd say the Lakers shouldn't be afraid to take a chance on a highschooler that may potentially be good. With the second round pick, they have a decent shot at getting one of them. Why waste it on someone that is not going to get any better? Besides, it's only a second round pick. If he doesn't pan out, it's not like it's that big of a deal.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

I think they should use BOTH of the picks on highschoolers, or grab Chris Marcus. Marcus was supposed to be a lottery pick this year before the injury. He was a stud two years ago, and he barely got any PT this year. If his workouts go alright, and the highschoolers are all taken...they might aswell go ahead and grab him in the second round.

Like I have said, my dream situation would be...

Draft: 
First Round: SF--Travis Outlaw
Second Round: C--James Lang

Sign:
PF--Karl Malone
SF--Scottie Pippen

:yes:


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sylaw</b>!
> I'd say the Lakers shouldn't be afraid to take a chance on a highschooler that may potentially be good. With the second round pick, they have a decent shot at getting one of them. Why waste it on someone that is not going to get any better? Besides, it's only a second round pick. If he doesn't pan out, it's not like it's that big of a deal.


How is it a waste just because he doesn't get much better? Gilbert Arenas didn't get much better since college, he just slipped because people thought he was a 2 in a ones body.

Give me guys like Arenas or Eddie House (who would be good if given PT) over guys like DeShawn Stevenson any day.


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## aznbusyboy (Apr 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> :uhoh:


Lakers aren't stupid, is that why they won 3 championship in a roll? i don't care who ur mom is, but she needs to teach you about human sense


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## sylaw (Nov 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jemel Irief</b>!
> 
> 
> How is it a waste just because he doesn't get much better? Gilbert Arenas didn't get much better since college, he just slipped because people thought he was a 2 in a ones body.
> ...


Arenas has gotten better since his college days so I wasn't talking about him. You actually think he was that good in college? I've seen him play at Arizona and he's definitely improved since coming to the NBA. I could care less of Eddie House. I don't think he's any good at all. I was never too high on Stevenson anyway. 

I'm not saying just take any highschooler that's available. I'm talking about Lang, Outlaw or Villanueva compared to some of the potential picks that have been mentioned that don't seem like they are going to have as much potential. Those players may have produced in college but their upside does seem limited. This isn't a high pick so taking a highschooler wouldn't be a bad gamble.


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## Sky (May 1, 2003)

Keep in mind that Jackson is the real GM, he's not about to take a high schooler in the first, not a chance. Nor should he. After LBJ all the high schoolers are second round talents.

Since free agency can provide the starting 4 (Juwan or PJ), use the draft to fill the other crater at 1. Biggest need from the draft is a quick athletic doberman at 1 that can penetrate and create off the dribble and stick open looks on the perimeter.

At 24, they won't have much choice. I'd like to see them trade up to get a shot Lenadrinho Barbosa, or stay put and hope that Misan Nikagbatse declares and grab him, 6-4/202. Shut down Dre, Baron and Marion in the worlds, killer crossover, jet quick with great handles, over 50% from the floor, 40% from 3, 2.6 steals per game in 25 minutes in Europe. 

Barbosa is 6-3/190 with a 6-10 wingspan, with makes him an incredible defender, shot blocker, rebounder and steals thief. Has some big stats as well. Also apparently has a slow unorthoodox release. But based on what Hilario has done, there's no questioning the athleticism. And athleticism that can play immediately (ergo no high schoolers) is what this team needs. Desperately. Ideally they want athleticism with proven ability against top talent. That's Nikagbatse. If Misan doesn't declare then Barbosa.

The other first round points they could consider or trade up for are Heinrich and Gaines, but the foreigners are much better athletes. Moore would be there at 24. Good passer and size, but a streak shooter. Banks would be there in the second round, but do you really want another 6 foot point?

Nikagbatse or Barbosa for the love of God. But they won't. Mitch will take Cabarkapa or Pachulia instead and no one will be happy. 2nd round, Beasley, Tommy Smith, Luke Walton, maybe Banks. 

They are in the title window NOW. They need athleticism that can play immediately. Therefore no way the first round pick goes to high schoolers that won't be ready for at least 2 years. They need guys who can make the 8-man rotation and contribute immediately. Proven players with athleticism. You want to go high school, maybe in the second round depending on who's there. But not in the first, that's just plain nuts. And it would be reaching anyway.

What I'd do - trade up for Barbosa and take Smith in the second.

What Kupchak/Jackson will probably do - Pachulia first, Luke Walton second.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sylaw</b>!
> 
> 
> Arenas has gotten better since his college days so I wasn't talking about him. You actually think he was that good in college? I've seen him play at Arizona and he's definitely improved since coming to the NBA. I could care less of Eddie House. I don't think he's any good at all. I was never too high on Stevenson anyway.
> ...


What has Arenas improved on? He's still the same great athlete that he was at Zona, he just has more freedomw with the ball now.

Sky, only one of those foreign players I've seen play is Nigabaktse. Nigerian dude playing for Germany right? I really don't like to evaluate foreign talent I know nothing about, but do the Lakers scout overseas as much as some other teams? They got Slava and apparently had that point guard from Isareal, Odded? What happened to him anyways. What would you use to trade up? Please don't say Rush.


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## Sky (May 1, 2003)

Jemel - Yeah that's Misan. His defense in the worlds against NBA all-stars is all I needed to see. He has the skills. A point that can defend Marion and Baron and has an Ivyeseque crossover? Where do I sign?

Slava was due to Magic seeing him when he was barnstorming in Europe, they signed him as a FA after his big SPL game against Portland. Problem was that Slava only plays well in streetball, square peg whose game can't fit into a triangle hole.

Mitch and Lester went to Europe to scout Darko Milicic and some Yugos earlier this year. I think Lester is there now watching the European Final Four. They're very late in the game overseas but they do have an international scouring presence now, have been scouting/courting Askrabic. The international Mitch likes best is Pachulia, he came over to work out in LA last year before pulling out of the draft.

I'd try to use the first and early second to trade up for Barbosa. If the other team wanted Rush, I'd still do it. Sorry. They need an athletic doberman 1 desperately. A 2 behind Kobe without point skills is a luxury, a 1 that can actually defend and create is a necessity. 

Imagine a 6-3 blur quick aggressive point with 6-10 wingspan. He'd be murder closing out on 3's and he'd have the quickness and power to go over screens and deny penetration. His arms make him capable of taking on taller guards and really bothering points that don't do well against speed and size like Bibby. A point with the speed and size to shut down Parker, Bibby, Nash, Hudson, Franchise and Starbury is EXACTLY what we need most from the draft. Nikagbatse can do that as well. Misan or Barbosa. Please.

Oded Katash was invited to camp but he suffered a horrific knee injury in Europe and he was just too ruined to play, couldn't come back. His career's done.


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## Sean (Jun 7, 2002)

Welcome to BBB Sky! Glad to see you here. Your insight, as always, is invaluable.


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## sylaw (Nov 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jemel Irief</b>!
> 
> 
> What has Arenas improved on? He's still the same great athlete that he was at Zona, he just has more freedomw with the ball now.


Umm, Arenas just won the NBA's Most Improved Player award. 

Besides, I didn't say he improved athletically as a player, but skill-wise, he is better. He knows the NBA better now and plays smarter. IMO, he's also a better shooter now.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

misan sounds great, a pg that can defend


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## cmd34 (Jul 17, 2002)

*barbosa*

dang sky, you have me jockin' this barbosa kid now. does anyone know any sites that have more info on him? i read his profile on nbadraft.net already.

i wouldn't be mad if we took marcus banks at 24(if barbosa is gone)..i really think his game is going to take off at the next level.

i completely agree that the lakers are lacking in the international scouting department. they should sign a big name ex-euro player or coach who knows the layout over there, to go over there and scout. no suggestions on who, as of now. 

so i'm changing my preference now to:
1) barbosa
2) banks
3) rickert
4) west
5) cook


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sky</b>!
> At 24, they won't have much choice. I'd like to see them trade up to get a shot Lenadrinho Barbosa, or stay put and hope that Misan Nikagbatse declares and grab him, 6-4/202. Shut down Dre, Baron and Marion in the worlds, killer crossover, jet quick with great handles, over 50% from the floor, 40% from 3, 2.6 steals per game in 25 minutes in Europe.


Aren't you just feeding off of info that NBADraft.net gives you? And NBADraft.net says this guy (Misan Nikagbatse) is a second rounder in 2004. No way he'll be picked in the First Round this year.


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## Sleeperz (Feb 3, 2003)

my opinion is that we draft a quick PG in the late first round like *barbosa* or *banks*. in the second round we should get an athletic PF that has upside but is not expected to contribute immediately since hopefully the lakeshow can bring in a decent PF with the MLE for next year. someone like *Lang*, *Smith* or maybe even *Beasley*


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## Sky (May 1, 2003)

Damian - I've talked with a scout that saw the Barbosa tape and he says this guy can really play, Paytonesque aggression on both ends and very athletic and very long. 6-3 with a 6-10 wingspan. Whoa. Today's Cleveland Plain Dealer is now saying Barbosa could go as high as 5th. His draft status will utlimately be decided by how well he plays in Chicago and private workouts, but he'll go early.

Did you see Nikagbatse play in the worlds? This is a 6-4/200 combo guard that played shutdown defense on Shawn Marion. Think about that for a second. He also shut down Baron and Dre. He is the doberman 1 we desperately need. And on offense he has a crossover second only to Ivy, can penetrate at will with a lethal first step and he has monster hops. He's hitting over 50% from the floor, 40% from 3 and getting over 2.5 steals per game in just 25 minutes.

Does anyone in the draft have that resume? You seen Charlie Villanueva shut down Marion? Hasn't played him obviously. Even if he did, do you actually think he even could? Nikagabatse has PROVEN he can. And he's a point guard. He's also proven he can defend Baron Davis and Andre Miller. Name anyone else in the draft with those credentials.

Nikagbatse is wavering on whether he'll declare for this draft or go in 2004 or 2005. His agent has been pushing the Celtics to consider him. Anyone that watched the Worlds knows Misan is the truth. If he declares he'll go in the first and the Lakers would be very wise to consider him.

If you want to call me on overvaluing scouting reports I'd throw that back at you with respect to all these high schoolers you have so much wood for. How often have you seen Travis Outlaw play?

And I'd add this. If you think Jackson will ok drafting a high schooler in the first you're alone. A high schooler in the second unlikely but granted maybe that can happen. But according to the scouting reports, Villanueva doesn't defend and likes being the star of the show. Not Laker matieral. Part of the reason Jackson was attracted to Madsen was his age. Jackson is biased against youth, always has been. I don't like it either but that's the reality.

This team is in the title window for the next three years. They need to draft mature intelligent athletes that can get the triangle quickly and defend and crack the rotation after the all-star break. Which leaves out high schoolers. Entirely. A high schooler would be lucky to get decent burn from Jackson in 2006, window's already closed. Ain't happening. 

Yes Kobe, KG, TMac, Jermaine O'Neal. But O'Neal went the lowest at mid-first. The only high schooler picked after the mid-first to succeed is Rashard Lewis. Around this time last year people were pumping up the LA head case high schooler, DeAngelo Collins. Wouldn't surprise me at all if you were one of them. Where is he now? Or the HS guard that people were high on, forget his name. Toronto gave him a workout in the summer and cut him. If the high schooler has game he rises to the top. And if he doesn't rise above mid-first in projections, he's not worth taking in the first. No way.

Clubs have a read on this year's high school crop and the universal consensus is only King James is first round worthy. Jackson and Kupchak aren't about to go to high school in the first on principle alone, but to REACH for a high schooler in the first would be even dumber. They ain't doing it. Not in the first, not a chance in the world. Guaranteed. And thank God for that.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

I'd like a quick PG with their first pick, and with the second, maybe Villanueva if he's available in the 2nd


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sky</b>!
> 
> Yes Kobe, KG, TMac, Jermaine O'Neal. But O'Neal went the lowest at mid-first. The only high schooler picked after the mid-first to succeed is Rashard Lewis. Around this time last year people were pumping up the LA head case high schooler, DeAngelo Collins. Wouldn't surprise me at all if you were one of them. Where is he now? Or the HS guard that people were high on, forget his name. Toronto gave him a workout in the summer and cut him. If the high schooler has game he rises to the top. And if he doesn't rise above mid-first in projections, he's not worth taking in the first. No way.


I think that other HS guard was Lenny Cooke. And Al Harrington is a pretty good HS picked out of the mid first round, but I agree with your point overall.

I've seen Villenaueva play 2 times, from what I can tell he won't contribute to a NBA team for at least 3 more years. He's very weak both physically and fundamentally. You can't get by in the NBA just because you are either too tall or too athletic for your opponent because athletic 6'9" guy are all over the place.

From what I saw of Misan in the worlds he seemed more of a 2 offensively than a 1, but that's not a concern because Fish is as well. I just want a guy that can check the ones.

With Fox possibly out for the year I think the Lakers should look at a combo forward with the second pick.


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## guilherme.rcf (Mar 4, 2003)

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1052041043138830.xml

Leandro Barbosa link


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>guilherme.rcf</b>!
> http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1052041043138830.xml
> 
> Leandro Barbosa link


Since you live in Brazil have you seen him play?


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## guilherme.rcf (Mar 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jemel Irief</b>!
> 
> 
> Since you live in Brazil have you seen him play?


Yes I have, on tv


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## Sleeperz (Feb 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>guilherme.rcf</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes I have, on tv


so...what's your impression of him?


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## guilherme.rcf (Mar 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Sleeperz</b>!
> 
> 
> so...what's your impression of him?


He was the best player in our league in his second year. But I have no idea how good will he be in NBA.


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## Sleeperz (Feb 3, 2003)

word is spread fast about barbosa...looks like he's gonna be out of our reach.


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## SKLB54 (Oct 13, 2002)

Wheres the love for Marcus Moore? I think that you are all over-hyping Barbosa, he's never seen skill level of the NBA on a daily basis. Yes, I'm feeding off nbadraft.net but:

Still developing his point guard skills such as controlling tempo and decision making ... Needs to continue to improve on getting his teammates consistently involved in the offense ... Forces too many passes that are not there due to his lack of patience ...

If ya asked me, Id go with Marcus Moore, a great passer who can get Kobe and O'Neal the ball all the time ("One of the best passers overall") and hes not a chump on offense ("great cross-over-move", "Can knock down three pointers")... also Jerome Beasley who looks like he could be the steal of the draft with his inside-outside game (Plays a lot like Bosh). Oh and he has a fro... cmon now you gotta get him...

Lang I used to like but he's starting to sound like an Oliver Miller (crap... i hope thats his name) or a Robert Traylor (who's good... but not starter good, like Beasley)

Chris Marcus - yea he could be a good backup, but when you have a chance at getting a starting pf in Beasley, who do you pick?

Josh Howard - Wont be playin SG... and will be undersized at sf.. but you already knew that

Marcus Banks' size issue doesnt look too great, and the things he does best (driving to the lane"his biggest asset which is the drive and dish", fast break "After he gets the ball he really looks to initiate the fast break") I dont think really applies well to the Lakers

So my picks: 
Marcus Moore
Jerome Beasley


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sky</b>!
> If you want to call me on overvaluing scouting reports I'd throw that back at you with respect to all these high schoolers you have so much wood for. How often have you seen Travis Outlaw play?


I've seen him play a few times, and he definitely has the potential to become a star. All this respect for highschoolers? It's obvious that drafting highschool players is the future, and Outlaw and Lang both have the potential to be stars. Like I've said...the Lakers should be picking for the FUTURE, not necessarily this year, they can do that in FA. They need 2 young guys. Outlaw and Lang would be fantastic.

THE LAKERS NEED YOUNG PLAYERS!


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## SKLB54 (Oct 13, 2002)

Maybe if Outlaw grows out of his stick called his body, and maybe if Lang could move into that stick.

You get my point,
Outlaw - hasnt even gotten to 200 lbs yet and hes 6'9"

Lang - 6'10" - tad undersized, a tad... 300-350 lbs (no one knows)... if he gets down to 275- 285 then yea he's a hell of a prospect.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SKLB54</b>!
> Maybe if Outlaw grows out of his stick called his body, and maybe if Lang could move into that stick.
> 
> You get my point,
> ...


There have been many players that were good prospects that were under 200lbs.

I believe Darius Miles was under 200 when he came intot he league (he may even be under 200 now). He would've been a great player this year, if the Cavs didn't screw him up.


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