# is Iverson the best player in the atlantic?



## The Effin One (Jul 22, 2005)

might sound like a dumb question, but do you guys consider AI the best in the atlantic?

I think he is by far, yet I feel like people are somewhat reluctant to call him that. Where would you guys place Iverson in elite of the Atlantic? Who would be your top 5 in the Atlantic?

i'm bored so i'm going to make a few threads to try and start some activity.


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## RedsDrunk (Oct 31, 2005)

Yeah I think so, but this is also the Philly boards so of course its gonna be a little biased.
As for top 5 in the Atl..Off the top of my head in no real order

AI
Paul P
Vince
RJ
Kidd


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

I wouldn't give him the award outright with Jason Kidd in the conference but he's def. in the running. As much as I hate Vince Carter, he can be flat out dominant at times. Paul Pierce has lost a step in my eyes, I remember when he used to torch teams with Antoine, he seems to be doing less of that.

In order:

A.I./J.Kidd (tie)
Vince Carter
R. Jefferson
Marbury 
Pierce


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## Kunlun (Jun 22, 2003)

The quick, easy and CORRECT answer to this question is yes.


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## LakerLunatic (Mar 1, 2005)

Haha, try, he is the best player in the East.


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

LakerLunatic said:


> Haha, try, he is the best player in the East.


Umm Shaq?


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

you know what's even _more_ interesting for me to think about, what's the criteria for this question? what does "best player" mean? it could be mean so many different things, i reckon, and yet it's hardly ever specified. it's usually just asked, and people just answer.

"best player", ok. 

the player you'd most want to have on your team heading into a big game? maybe that's not even enough. you'd have to know the skillset and makeup of the rest of the team before picking your star there, imo.

the player you'd most want in the locker room and on the court to help develop your young players? maybe, but hardly any of us know how these guys are behind closed doors, so our guesses for "best player" against this criteria would be... weak. we just wouldn't know.

the players you'd most want to have on your team at a clutch moment? maybe. but what about the rest of the game? what about the rest of the things that go into not only being an mvp, but being a leader to help bring the team to the most "clutch moments" possible? that could possibly change all the criteria. 

anyway, i don't want to be the party pooper here, i just don't know what question is being asked. you'd probably get a different opinion for each separate context, and i'm not sure that the context for this particular thread has been clarified. for example, allen iverson might be my candidate if i think about it in one way, but he certainly wouldn't be my candidate if i think about it in another. 

peace


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## vandyke (Jan 8, 2004)

Iverson is not only the best player in the Atlantic but can't you make a case along with Duncan as the best player in the game? I like Shaq but he hasn't been Shaq-like for the last two years.


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## Air Fly (Apr 19, 2005)

Yes.


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## SixersFan (Dec 19, 2004)

Without a doubt.


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

He's still dominant, his team is still always deep in the playoffs contending for a championship and it's because of him. Since I can't take the whole Pistons team, which beats Shaq's Heat, I take Shaq because he's always playing for the title and thats what great players do, win. I don't get how you can argue against winning?


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## DetroitDiesel (Nov 14, 2005)

Best in the league.


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## Sixerfanforlife (Jun 23, 2005)

He's the best in the league, he plays pound for pound each and every night, there's no coach that contain him, you can only he catches the flu instead of a basketball.


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

Best in the league? The homerism is killing me. I don't know if you've ever seen this guy who plays in Texas, Tim Duncan? He's ok, won a couple of MVP's, World Championships, and might be the GREATEST POWER FORWARD OF ALL TIME.


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## Sixerfanforlife (Jun 23, 2005)

I laughed when you said that, okay he's won a couple of Mvp's so did the Iverson 3 in fact (1 league mvp 2-all-star and you can bet if they won the finals in 01 he'd be the finals mvp too) Tim Duncan won 3 world championships. the reason? A very deep balanced rotation with what is now an all-star lineup. Granted he's too inconsistant to be the greatest power forward of all time, in 12 yrs Chris Webber has averaged 21 points 10 rebounds and more then 5 assists. Now that Webber's along side Allen Iverson Andre Iguodala Kyle Korver and Sammy D. They could arguably make a title run. How does this defend Allen Iverson? Take Ai out that team and only Kyle Korver produces offense. Kg, C-Webb, Shaq, sheed brothers, if Darko improves maybe. Come on there are much better forward/centers then Duncan out there and one is on the market.


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## VC_15 (Jun 17, 2005)

LakerLunatic said:


> Haha, try, he is the best player in the East.



your kidding right? no body tops lebron in the east.


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

Sixerfanforlife said:


> I laughed when you said that, okay he's won a couple of Mvp's so did the Iverson 3 in fact (1 league mvp 2-all-star and you can bet if they won the finals in 01 he'd be the finals mvp too) Tim Duncan won 3 world championships. the reason? A very deep balanced rotation with what is now an all-star lineup. Granted he's too inconsistant to be the greatest power forward of all time, in 12 yrs Chris Webber has averaged 21 points 10 rebounds and more then 5 assists. Now that Webber's along side Allen Iverson Andre Iguodala Kyle Korver and Sammy D. They could arguably make a title run. How does this defend Allen Iverson? Take Ai out that team and only Kyle Korver produces offense. Kg, C-Webb, Shaq, sheed brothers, if Darko improves maybe. Come on there are much better forward/centers then Duncan out there and one is on the market.


1) All-Star MVP's are a joke, they don't play defense the games are consistently over 120 pts., its one game. Playoff and Season MVP's are the sum of multiple games, not one good shooting night when no1 wants to pull a hamstring during a dunkfest, get with it kid. 
2) The reason Tim Duncan doesn't average 30 points a night is cuz he doesn't need to, he would easily get 30 if he got as many touches and shots as A.I. He shots a much higher percentage. He has better talent around him, thats true, and uses it to win games, not pad his stats for clowns like you to riddle off. 
3) You must be one of a handful of idiots in the world that think the Sixers are going to make a title run. Lets worry about the playoffs first, god knows we can't even beat the Bucks. 
4) I said best Power Forward, that doesn't include Shaq, who Timmy D has has beaten when he needed to. I love KG but he hasn't done anything in the post season even with talent around him (Latrell, Sam Cassell, Wally World, Kandi Man, Hudson, etc.). C-Webb = no titles. Sheed brothers had no answer for Timmy D in last years playoffs. And the Darko comment truely proves that you smoke crack rock.


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## Sixerfanforlife (Jun 23, 2005)

All-star games are exciting and allow you to show the true potential of the eastern conference, for Ai to be the best out of arguably 30 players from the two conferences is phoneomnal and only adds to his reputation as a player. Where have I mentioned Tim Duncan's not averaging 30 points, but to also argue you on that regard he has 23.9 as the average, that's not bad. He shoots a higher percentage? Maybe that's because of the difference between the amount of shots they take. You easily make Iverson take 18 shots and he hits 12 that's 65.4 percent. Allen Iverson doesn't use it to win games? Sorry if you have forgotten but the 76ers are missing Samuel Dalembert, and is trying to make due with a defensive tackle (James Thomas) And an Over-payed and rated Center in Steven Hunter (Defensively over-rated anyway.) Consider the following: 4-all-stars and 1 of the most respectable 3 point shooting threats are your starting lineup, Offensive Jugganaut's Lee Nailon John Salmons Stephen Hunter are the top 3 on your bench. Kevin Ollie and Deng gai are your under-rated defenders. Is an NBA title realisitic? If all goes well, maybe. But to not fore-see Eastern conference finals is arrogance on your part.


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

Sixerfanforlife said:


> All-star games are exciting and allow you to show the true potential of the eastern conference, for Ai to be the best out of arguably 30 players from the two conferences is phoneomnal and only adds to his reputation as a player. Where have I mentioned Tim Duncan's not averaging 30 points, but to also argue you on that regard he has 23.9 as the average, that's not bad. He shoots a higher percentage? Maybe that's because of the difference between the amount of shots they take. You easily make Iverson take 18 shots and he hits 12 that's 65.4 percent. Allen Iverson doesn't use it to win games? Sorry if you have forgotten but the 76ers are missing Samuel Dalembert, and is trying to make due with a defensive tackle (James Thomas) And an Over-payed and rated Center in Steven Hunter (Defensively over-rated anyway.) Consider the following: 4-all-stars and 1 of the most respectable 3 point shooting threats are your starting lineup, Offensive Jugganaut's Lee Nailon John Salmons Stephen Hunter are the top 3 on your bench. Kevin Ollie and Deng gai are your under-rated defenders. Is an NBA title realisitic? If all goes well, maybe. But to not fore-see Eastern conference finals is arrogance on your part.


I would bet my life that the Sixers arent in the Eastern Conference Finals, and I'm a fan of theirs. Try looking at it from an objective standpoint. Are they better than the Pacers, Heat, Pistons, Cavs, hell even the Bucks? Doubful. Sammy D will help them lock up a playoff spot. They will have to beat at least one, prob. two of those teams. Good luck, all this with a new coach and different system. Who are these 4 all stars? A.I., Webber, Iggy is a possibilty but needs to score more often and defensive players usually don't get the proper respect (i.e. Ron Artest for years), Dalembert is not All Star yet. 
Who is really the ignorant one?


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## VC_15 (Jun 17, 2005)

Sixerfanforlife said:


> All-star games are exciting and allow you to show the true potential of the eastern conference, for Ai to be the best out of arguably 30 players from the two conferences is phoneomnal and only adds to his reputation as a player. Where have I mentioned Tim Duncan's not averaging 30 points, but to also argue you on that regard he has 23.9 as the average, that's not bad. He shoots a higher percentage? Maybe that's because of the difference between the amount of shots they take. You easily make Iverson take 18 shots and he hits 12 that's 65.4 percent. Allen Iverson doesn't use it to win games? Sorry if you have forgotten but the 76ers are missing Samuel Dalembert, and is trying to make due with a defensive tackle (James Thomas) And an Over-payed and rated Center in Steven Hunter (Defensively over-rated anyway.) Consider the following: 4-all-stars and 1 of the most respectable 3 point shooting threats are your starting lineup, Offensive Jugganaut's Lee Nailon John Salmons Stephen Hunter are the top 3 on your bench. Kevin Ollie and Deng gai are your under-rated defenders. Is an NBA title realisitic? If all goes well, maybe. But to not fore-see Eastern conference finals is arrogance on your part.




Man i love ai, he's the toughest guy in the nba with the biggest heart. But i have to aggree with the fact that Ai shoots way too many shots, i watch several games for him this season, he shoots on almost every possesion and he scores!!!!... but that's good enough for the season, not playoffs. Ai is a great player, and concerning the All-star stuff, i could've sworn Ai took the most shots, he only passed it when he was double teamed.


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## JCB (Aug 9, 2005)

This is coming from a Nets fan . . . .YES, Iverson is the best player in the Atlantic. He is not only the best in the Atlantic, but top 3 in the league.


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

Chaser 55 said:


> This is coming from a Nets fan . . . .YES, Iverson is the best player in the Atlantic. He is not only the best in the Atlantic, but top 3 in the league.


Whos the other 2 and whats the order?


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## JCB (Aug 9, 2005)

Mattjb34 said:


> Whos the other 2 and whats the order?


1) Tim Duncan
2) SHAQ
3) AI


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## hammer (Oct 29, 2005)

If by _Best Player In The Atlantic_ you mean _Most Likely To Hog The Ball And Demoralize The Rest Of His Team With Terrible Shot Selection And Piss-Poor Decision Making_, then I agree.

Iverson is a joke. He is reluctant to get anyone else on the team involved on the offensive end of the court. On the defensive end, he is opportunistic, but you can post him up all day, shoot over him with ease, etc.

What it comes down to is that you guys are all fans of one-on-one, "And 1 mixtape" type basketball. Y'all have no clue as to what it takes to win championships in this league. This is a team game. It's not streetball.

Just stop talking about the NBA altogether if you have Iverson down as one of the best players in the league. That is so insanely retarded that it almost doesn't deserve a response, but I understand that quite a few of you have Forrest Gump level IQs when it comes to basketball. Therefore, I felt the need to chime in. 

Now please, tell me how I'm wrong. I can use the laughs.


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

hammer said:


> If by _Best Player In The Atlantic_ you mean _Most Likely To Hog The Ball And Demoralize The Rest Of His Team With Terrible Shot Selection And Piss-Poor Decision Making_, then I agree.
> 
> Iverson is a joke. He is reluctant to get anyone else on the team involved on the offensive end of the court. On the defensive end, he is opportunistic, but you can post him up all day, shoot over him with ease, etc.
> 
> ...


Now I'm getting frustrated. This guy is obviously an idiot. My view is that A.I. is somewhere b/w the best player in the history of the NBA like some1 said and the worst player in the world like this guy. I absolutely hate "And 1" type basketball, but I recognize that the team needs A.I. to handle the scoring. This post is absolutely more ludicrous than the A.I. being the greatest player ever post. I nominate this post, along with all of SixersFanForLife's posts for stupidest post of the season.


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## Sixerfanforlife (Jun 23, 2005)

His Poor decision making is in the top 5 in assists. And Among guards he's in the top ten in steals once again. If he Limits his team-mates effectiveness why has Chris Webber averaged 21 10 and 6? Last Year he got Kyle Korver and Andre Iguodala involved, and look at them now, because of Iverson their more complete players. What wins championships in this league? Defense, scoring and team work. Iverson may not be and may never be the best 1-on-1 Defender, but his steals will come in handy. You can never stop Allen Iverson on the offensive end of the court, you can only hope to contain him. And Team-work? Do I have to point out the 2003 season, in which Dalembert and Iverson hooked up brilliantly. Should I point out this year, where Ai and Chris Webber dominate. Should I point out last year, where everyone Jim O'Brien played, trusted Iverson's decision making ability. We could very well be aiming for our 8th trip to the playoffs baring injuries in 03. Iverson's for real, and for a team that is depending on the Knicks to finish Mediocre you have no business talking about an eastern conference contender, much less their best player.


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## hammer (Oct 29, 2005)

Mattjb34 said:


> Now I'm getting frustrated. This guy is obviously an idiot. My view is that A.I. is somewhere b/w the best player in the history of the NBA like some1 said and the worst player in the world like this guy. I absolutely hate "And 1" type basketball, but I recognize that the team needs A.I. to handle the scoring. This post is absolutely more ludicrous than the A.I. being the greatest player ever post. I nominate this post, along with all of SixersFanForLife's posts for stupidest post of the season.


Lol, are you going to cry now that I bashed your hero? Fact is, you are a huge fan of And-1 Mixtapes, streetball, etc if you like to watch Allen Iverson. You recognize that the team *needs* AI to handle the scoring. Yep, even if it means firing up bricks with two guys in his face, ill-advised miraculous "I think I'm MJ" type lay-ups, etc. You can't tell me that the young players on that team aren't demoralized half of the time. 

Who in their right mind builds around such a cancerous, ball-hogging, poor-decision making "And 1" street-baller? Put Iverson on the Knicks, and we'll see what's up. He is Stephon Marbury with a better work ethic.


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## hammer (Oct 29, 2005)

Sixerfanforlife said:


> Iverson's for real, and for a team that is depending on the Knicks to finish Mediocre you have no business talking about an eastern conference contender, much less their best player.


So, I can only talk about the Bulls? Is that right? I'm completely cut off when it comes to other NBA teams?

That's pretty retarded, but I'm sure that you realize that.


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

hammer said:


> Lol, are you going to cry now that I bashed your hero? Fact is, you are a huge fan of And-1 Mixtapes, streetball, etc if you like to watch Allen Iverson. You recognize that the team *needs* AI to handle the scoring. Yep, even if it means firing up bricks with two guys in his face, ill-advised miraculous "I think I'm MJ" type lay-ups, etc. You can't tell me that the young players on that team aren't demoralized half of the time.
> 
> Who in their right mind builds around such a cancerous, ball-hogging, poor-decision making "And 1" street-baller? Put Iverson on the Knicks, and we'll see what's up. He is Stephon Marbury with a better work ethic.


Who wants to build around A.I.? I dont know, Larry Brown. Widely considered the best basketball coach in the NBA. See 2000-2001, I don't like "Street" ball, but I'm not a moron that dismisses A.I.'s value to the team. Take A.I. off this team and guess what you have, the record of the Bulls at the start of this century. I guess you would be a big fan of street ball, since you get to watcho Ben Gordon play, same type player, just not as many shots. Get a clue man, read the last couple of posts and you'll see I'm not a huge A.I. fan, fortuneately I'm not a mental midget, either. If you love Pro basketball than you love street ball, that why I enjoy college more. Now get out of here before you embarass yourself more.


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## hammer (Oct 29, 2005)

Mattjb34 said:


> Who wants to build around A.I.? I dont know, Larry Brown. Widely considered the best basketball coach in the NBA. See 2000-2001, I don't like "Street" ball, but I'm not a moron that dismisses A.I.'s value to the team. Take A.I. off this team and guess what you have, the record of the Bulls at the start of this century. I guess you would be a big fan of street ball, since you get to watcho Ben Gordon play, same type player, just not as many shots. Get a clue man, read the last couple of posts and you'll see I'm not a huge A.I. fan, fortuneately I'm not a mental midget, either. If you love Pro basketball than you love street ball, that why I enjoy college more. Now get out of here before you embarass yourself more.


Oh, I get it. I'm a Bulls fan, so that automatically means that I'm a fan of Ben Gordon???? Is that right? 

I hate Ben Gordon with a passion. Don't presume to know anything about what I like. I'm only on this forum to check out Dalembert's injury status, and also to read up on Iggy. 

Like I said, put Iverson on the Knicks and you'll have the same difference. Put Iverson on the Magic, and he's the equivalent of Steve Francis. These guys are streetball legends who will never, ever understand what it takes to win championships in this league.


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## Sixerfanforlife (Jun 23, 2005)

Oh so granted Magic Johnson who came up with so many Pheneomonal moves that we never fully understood in this area couldn't win a championship either. Yet the Lakers were a dynasty in the making and I can't count how many times the Celtic's Larry Bird also did some pretty sick things. Yea cross-overs and the ability to put the ball in the basket cannot win championships, it all comes down to being the player that'll scrap for loose balls, the player that will lose his job in a second once a stronger more capable player comes through. WHATEVER


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

hammer said:


> Oh, I get it. I'm a Bulls fan, so that automatically means that I'm a fan of Ben Gordon???? Is that right?
> 
> I hate Ben Gordon with a passion. Don't presume to know anything about what I like. I'm only on this forum to check out Dalembert's injury status, and also to read up on Iggy.
> 
> Like I said, put Iverson on the Knicks and you'll have the same difference. Put Iverson on the Magic, and he's the equivalent of Steve Francis. These guys are streetball legends who will never, ever understand what it takes to win championships in this league.


All I presume is that your a moron, to say that streetball or 1 on 1 play has no place in the NBA. While I enjoy team ball, it could be interpretated that the greatest player of all time, MJ's game played similar streetball. No set plays, Iso with his defender many times, lots of shots, high scoring average, seems quite close. So for you to say it has no place in the NBA and doesnt equate to championships would be wrong.


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## hammer (Oct 29, 2005)

Sixerfanforlife said:


> Oh so granted Magic Johnson who came up with so many Pheneomonal moves that we never fully understood in this area couldn't win a championship either. Yet the Lakers were a dynasty in the making and I can't count how many times the Celtic's Larry Bird also did some pretty sick things. Yea cross-overs and the ability to put the ball in the basket cannot win championships, it all comes down to being the player that'll scrap for loose balls, the player that will lose his job in a second once a stronger more capable player comes through. WHATEVER


I don't think that we're on the same page here as far as this particular debate is concerned. Allen Iverson is an undersized combo guard. Magic Johnson and Larry Bird were completely different players. I have absolutely no idea where you're coming from.

Consider for a minute that you have an undersized "shoot first and think afterwards" combo guard running the show. He can get after those loose balls and he's very opportunistic when it comes to stealing the ball in the passing lanes, but when all is said and done, the negatives outweigh the positives _when it comes to winning championships_.

And that's the point. You build teams with that trophy in mind. This means that you can not, under any circumstances, have a Marbury, Iverson, Francis, etc as your primary scoring option playing out of the PG slot! Think about how retarded that is for a minute. And if you put these guys at SG, they'd be getting abused on the defensive end something fierce.

So, enjoy your 76ers, as they have a slight chance of making it to the 2nd round AND THAT IS IT. Same deal for the Bulls, but at least they're in rebuilding mode. You can't say the same for the 76ers. I feel so bad for Iggy.


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## hammer (Oct 29, 2005)

Mattjb34 said:


> All I presume is that your a moron, to say that streetball or 1 on 1 play has no place in the NBA. While I enjoy team ball, it could be interpretated that the greatest player of all time, MJ's game played similar streetball. No set plays, Iso with his defender many times, lots of shots, high scoring average, seems quite close. So for you to say it has no place in the NBA and doesnt equate to championships would be wrong.


Lol, who is a better defender that Michael Jordan out of the SG slot IN THE HISTORY OF THE NBA? Nobody. The Bulls won with legendary team defense, same as the 70s Knicks and 60s Celtics. 

It really seems quite close! You're exactly right!

Meanwhile, you're the one frustrated (as you admitted). Who is the moron here, especially after this gem of a post!!!!!


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

I dont think you were clear about what you disliked, before you stated you were against all streetball type players and now your only against the smallish guards who do so? Which is it?

P.S. In reality, A.I. only started playing the Point the last couple of years. In the past, he ran at the 2 guard spot with Eric Snow as the point, E.Snow also defended the other teams best perimeter player.


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## hammer (Oct 29, 2005)

Mattjb34 said:


> I dont think you were clear about what you disliked, before you stated you were against all streetball type players and now your only against the smallish guards who do so? Which is it?


The undersized combo guards (Iverson, Marbury, Francis, Gordon, Alston, etc) demoralize teams the most, but I could put together a pretty sizeable list of guys who are pretty much only out for self. At the top of the list would be one Antoine Walker, followed by guys like Jalen Rose, Ricky Davis, Vince Carter, Jason Terry, etc.

You just can't debate it, unless to say that you're *entertained* by these guys. I'll let casual fans off the hook, but if you're a serious basketball fan, you know what it takes to win championships, and it ain't contributions from players like "The Answer". The answer to what exactly I'll never know.


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

hammer said:


> The undersized combo guards (Iverson, Marbury, Francis, Gordon, Alston, etc) demoralize teams the most, but I could put together a pretty sizeable list of guys who are pretty much only out for self. At the top of the list would be one Antoine Walker, followed by guys like Jalen Rose, Ricky Davis, Vince Carter, Jason Terry, etc.
> 
> You just can't debate it, unless to say that you're *entertained* by these guys. I'll let casual fans off the hook, but if you're a serious basketball fan, you know what it takes to win championships, and it ain't contributions from players like "The Answer". The answer to what exactly I'll never know.


For the most part, I agree with what your saying. I'm not a big fan of that approach to the game, but your naive if you don't think they have a place. The 2000-2001 Sixers ran with A.I. at the 2, and surrounded him with defensive players like E. Snow, Lynch, Ratliff, Bell, and later Mutumbo, and collectively they had great success. It's not the kind of basketball I love to watch, which is why I watch college more, but it does have a place in the NBA and can be successful. I've had the pleasure of watching A.I. for a long and even tho I don't love his style, he is a great player, not the best. If you fill your team with these kinds of gunners it's not going to work. I would rather have a traditional PG like Nash, Duhon, Hinrich, Chris Paul, and Kidd but they seem to be a dieing breed.


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## VC_15 (Jun 17, 2005)

Chaser 55 said:


> 1) Tim Duncan
> 2) SHAQ
> 3) AI




nah man, ai is not third in the league. True that pound for pound Ai is the thoughest player in the nba, but he's not in the top 3.

It's more like :

1-TImmy
2_lebron
3 Kobe or Garnett


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## Sixerfanforlife (Jun 23, 2005)

Lebron at number 2, next thing you know, Larry Hughes is the best 3 point shooter in the universe.


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

1) Timmy D
2) Shaq
3) Lebron 
4) Garnett
5) Iverson


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## The Effin One (Jul 22, 2005)

hammer said:


> The undersized combo guards (Iverson, Marbury, Francis, Gordon, Alston, etc) demoralize teams the most, but I could put together a pretty sizeable list of guys who are pretty much only out for self. At the top of the list would be one Antoine Walker, followed by guys like Jalen Rose, Ricky Davis, Vince Carter, Jason Terry, etc.
> 
> You just can't debate it, unless to say that you're *entertained* by these guys. I'll let casual fans off the hook, but if you're a serious basketball fan, you know what it takes to win championships, and it ain't contributions from players like "The Answer". The answer to what exactly I'll never know.


No, I'm more than entertained. I'm enamored by Iverson, just like I'm enamored that someone can be so cocky about such a terribly wrong opinion.

Combo guards with poor shot selection that disrupt the teams flow? Whoa there. Now, since you're a fan of defense, I guess I'll alert you of this guy, Isiah Thomas? Yeah, he was a shoot first point guard, probably the most similar player to Iverson...he also had a tendency to whoop your team, the Bulls, *** yearly until the league became watered down and then Jordan won his. He won championships. Tiny Archibald was a legendary Celtic, also a shoot first point guard, who led the league in scoring and assists.

Are these players cancers?

Here, I'll let you know something about winning basketball that you apparently don't know. It's called the 'offensive powerhouse' effect. You know how Tim Duncan and Shaq make their teammates better because they disrupt the defenses chemistry? Everyone's so focused on where Duncan and SHaq are on the floor that they don't pay attention to the people they're supposed to be defending. one move towards the basket and 3 or 4 defenders collapse even if they shouldn't because they don't want them to get by. You know that kid Iverson? The same rules apply to him, which is amazing considering he's under six feet tall and these two guys are 7 footers. Since I'm pretty sure getting your teammates open looks is part of getting them 'in flow' for your offense, I really fail to see how Iverson disrupts the offense anymore than Shaq, Duncan, or any other offensive juggernaut. But you're a basketball expert and the rest of us our casual fans, right?

And shut down defense wins championships? Yup, Iverson proved that when his shut down Sixers squad when to the finals. Small guard need defense behind them to win a 'ship, that's what Isiah proved. As soon as AI gets another shut down defense he'll be back.

And seriously man, dead the cocky 'I'M A REAL FAN BECAUSE I KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT SHOOT FIRST PLAYERS AND YOU GUYS ARE CASUAL FANS.' You're not impressing anyone, if anything the one's who are laughing are ANY person with any sense in the game of basketball at you for trying so hard to detract from Iverson.

Seriously, I thought these opinions about AI died out about two or three years ago.


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## Sixerfanforlife (Jun 23, 2005)

Repped


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## hammer (Oct 29, 2005)

The Effin One said:


> No, I'm more than entertained. I'm enamored by Iverson, just like I'm enamored that someone can be so cocky about such a terribly wrong opinion.


Well, good for you! Chances are that you're probably "enamored" by all kinds of crap if you're an Iverson fan. 



The Effin One said:


> Combo guards with poor shot selection that disrupt the teams flow? Whoa there. Now, since you're a fan of defense, I guess I'll alert you of this guy, Isiah Thomas? Yeah, he was a shoot first point guard, probably the most similar player to Iverson...he also had a tendency to whoop your team, the Bulls, *** yearly until the league became watered down and then Jordan won his. He won championships. Tiny Archibald was a legendary Celtic, also a shoot first point guard, who led the league in scoring and assists.
> 
> Are these players cancers?


Wow, so there are exceptions out there. Who knew?

You're showing your age here. There are exceptions to everything in life. You might learn that someday, I dunno. Isiah Thomas just happened to be an efficient shoot-first PG, and those Pistons might have been the deepest defensive squad in NBA history. You have the greatest defensive PF of all time in Rodman, one of the most underrated defenders out of the SG slot in Joe Dumars, effective shot-altering forces off the bench in Rick Mahorn and John Salley, the crafty Bill Laimbeer, etc. That's what I would call defense and then some. Isiah Thomas went along for the ride. Put him on pretty much any other team and surround him with your typical talent set in those days, and he's basically a more efficient version of Steve Francis.



The Effin One said:


> Here, I'll let you know something about winning basketball that you apparently don't know. It's called the 'offensive powerhouse' effect. You know how Tim Duncan and Shaq make their teammates better because they disrupt the defenses chemistry? Everyone's so focused on where Duncan and SHaq are on the floor that they don't pay attention to the people they're supposed to be defending. one move towards the basket and 3 or 4 defenders collapse even if they shouldn't because they don't want them to get by. You know that kid Iverson? The same rules apply to him, which is amazing considering he's under six feet tall and these two guys are 7 footers. Since I'm pretty sure getting your teammates open looks is part of getting them 'in flow' for your offense, I really fail to see how Iverson disrupts the offense anymore than Shaq, Duncan, or any other offensive juggernaut. But you're a basketball expert and the rest of us our casual fans, right?


In a typical game, how many ill-advised low percentage shots does Iverson take? You call that efficient offense? 

Meanwhile, Duncan or Shaq are taking shots at or near the rim -- the highest percentage shots possible. They're not firing bricks from the perimiter that turn into fast break points for the other team. 

*Offensive Powerhouse Effect* omg that is hysterical. Who comes up with this nonsense? A conservative, defensive brand of offense is what guys like Duncan, Shaq, Garnett, Stoudamire, etc play. Good god, try again. 



The Effin One said:


> And shut down defense wins championships? Yup, Iverson proved that when his shut down Sixers squad when to the finals. Small guard need defense behind them to win a 'ship, that's what Isiah proved. As soon as AI gets another shut down defense he'll be back.


Again, you're showing your age here. There are numerous ways to build a defensive squad, and a undersized, defensive-minded combo guard is hardly a requirement. You need someone out on the perimiter to contain the other team's best outside scorer, and Iverson is pretty effing far from that guy. He can barely contain the other team's PG, as you can shoot over him all you want. On that 2000-2001 team, with the depth that they had, you could have thrown plenty of guys into that SG slot and it would have been the same difference. And you continue to insist that Isiah Thomas was the primary reason those Detroit teams won. That's ridiculous. They won with superior team defense, everybody knows that. Isiah was a decent defender, nothing special.



The Effin One said:


> And seriously man, dead the cocky 'I'M A REAL FAN BECAUSE I KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT SHOOT FIRST PLAYERS AND YOU GUYS ARE CASUAL FANS.' You're not impressing anyone, if anything the one's who are laughing are ANY person with any sense in the game of basketball at you for trying so hard to detract from Iverson.
> 
> Seriously, I thought these opinions about AI died out about two or three years ago.


Yo yo man, dead that! Go throw on another 50 Cent album.


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## hammer (Oct 29, 2005)

The Effin One said:


> I guess I'll alert you of this guy, Isiah Thomas? Yeah, he was a shoot first point guard, probably the most similar player to Iverson...he also had a tendency to whoop your team, the Bulls, *** yearly until the league became watered down and then Jordan won his.


Lol, then the league became watered down and Jordan won his.  

You keep telling yourself that. I'll just keep my all-time defensive squad in mind.

PG: Walt Frazier
*SG: Michael Jordan
SF: Scottie Pippen
PF: Dennis Rodman*
C: Bill Russell

Bench
Gary Payton
Sidney Moncrief
Bobby Jones
Dave DeBuscherre
Ron Artest
Nate Thurmond
Dikembe Mutombo
Hakeem Olajuwon
David Robinson
Ben Wallace

You're probably like a major closet Jordan fan who never knew that defense is what got it done for the 90s Bulls. I'm talking legendary defense here. I'm talking three out of five starters on the all-time first team. Chalk it up to a watered-down league if it makes you feel better. You were in kindergarten when I was celebrating the 91 championship. Don't act like you know anything about what went down back then. Stick to Iverson and Marbury.


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

hammer said:


> You're probably like a major closet Jordan fan who never knew that defense is what got it done for the 90s Bulls. I'm talking legendary defense here. I'm talking three out of five starters on the all-time first team. Chalk it up to a watered-down league if it makes you feel better. You were in kindergarten when I was celebrating the 91 championship. Don't act like you know anything about what went down back then. Stick to Iverson and Marbury.


Haha whatever old man, go celebrate the glory days with your bottle of Jack Daniels every night. You sound like the generic old guy. The leagues changed, the rules emphasize offense, you'll never see defense like it used to be played. Prime time players get all the calls, and the refs are more strict now, the rules are even different. It's not the same league as you think, now go watch your Bulls highlight video's and dream about the past.


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## MitchMatch (Jul 20, 2004)

A.I. is playing like the best player in the league right now.


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## hammer (Oct 29, 2005)

Mattjb34 said:


> Haha whatever old man, go celebrate the glory days with your bottle of Jack Daniels every night. You sound like the generic old guy. The leagues changed, the rules emphasize offense, you'll never see defense like it used to be played. Prime time players get all the calls, and the refs are more strict now, the rules are even different. It's not the same league as you think, now go watch your Bulls highlight video's and dream about the past.


No, there's still plenty of defense to be found in the NBA. Your three NBA powerhouses right now are elite defensive teams (Detroit, Indiana, San Antonio). I've been following all three of those teams closely for years now. I'm from Chicago, so I'm a Bulls fan first and foremost, but I'm also a die-hard NBA fan. 

The rules emphasize offense? Of course. It's been like that for a looooong time. Offense is what brings the casual fans out & fills stadiums. This is not a recent development.

Prime time players get all the calls? Naw, really? I DID NOT KNOW THAT. Again, the NBA needs to keep the prolific scorers out there so that stadiums get filled up, merchandise flies off the shelves, etc.

And I'm not that old. I'm pushing 30. I really started to follow the league closely in the mid-80s. Where do you get this old man crap from?


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## Mattjb34 (May 10, 2005)

Thats what you sound like, with your anti-new school approach. I, in no way, follow hip hop culture or anything really of this generation but I'm not naive enough to say that these guys can't play. Sure, it's easy to not like a lot of them because of the negative persona they display often but this is what today's game looks like. More teams like the Mavs, Sixers, Suns, and Kings and less like the Pistons, Pacers, and Spurs. I know that the Sixers will probably never generate a championship with A.I., defense wins championships, but you don't need to come over here venting like a psycho and trashing a talented player like A.I. (and you lose all credibility when you discount his achievements).


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## hammer (Oct 29, 2005)

Mattjb34 said:


> Thats what you sound like, with your anti-new school approach. I, in no way, follow hip hop culture or anything really of this generation but I'm not naive enough to say that these guys can't play. Sure, it's easy to not like a lot of them because of the negative persona they display often but this is what today's game looks like. More teams like the Mavs, Sixers, Suns, and Kings and less like the Pistons, Pacers, and Spurs. I know that the Sixers will probably never generate a championship with A.I., defense wins championships, but you don't need to come over here venting like a psycho and trashing a talented player like A.I. (and you lose all credibility when you discount his achievements).


Iverson might be the best street-baller on the planet. We're talking one in 6 billion. He is an insanely gifted one-on-one player. 

I just don't appreciate his NBA game, that is all. I'm not venting like a psycho, and I have yet to cross the line with any of my comments. I'm not going to include petty insults in my posts. So what, I told this guy that he's showing his age. I wouldn't have said anything if not for the fact that he's trying to tell me what the late 80s/early 90s were all about. That is pure comedy.


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## Pnack (Aug 23, 2005)

he is by far the best player in the atlantic


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## hammer (Oct 29, 2005)

KobeBryant08 said:


> he is by far the best player in the atlantic


That's like the tallest midget or the smartest retard. :biggrin: 

No, I really love guys like Andre Iguodala and Richard Jefferson. I also like big scoring SG/SF types like Paul Pierce. Chris Bosh will be an absolute monster once he learns how to play good defense on a consistent basis. There is plenty of talent to be found in the Atlantic, but you also have some of the worst GMs in the game.


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## Vermillion (Mar 23, 2004)

Atlantic? Without a doubt.

East? Arguable with Shaq, but I'd say he is. 

League? Nope, but a top-5 player nontheless.


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## The Effin One (Jul 22, 2005)

> PG: Walt Frazier
> SG: Michael Jordan
> SF: Scottie Pippen
> PF: Dennis Rodman
> ...


Decent list. Your bias shows, though. THREE Bulls players from the Championship squads are starters on the all defense team? What did what have to say have anything to do with defense, either? this is completely irrelevant.

Also, I'd argue that Dumars was a better defender than Jordan. Maybe his clamps on Jordan in the 80's when the league wasn't watered down may have hurt your feelings and that's why he's not even on there. There's two more 2guards who i'm conveniently forgetting right now, too. Actually, Moncrief might be one of them, if he is who I think he is...was he the 2guard on the Bucks?



> You're probably like a major closet Jordan fan who never knew that defense is what got it done for the 90s Bulls


Actually, I'm not much of a fan of Jordan. I'm also well aware that defense was what got it done for the Bulls. You know what else helped? Expansion, less talent, a watered down league. I don't think the reason Jordan didn't win until 91 was because he 'grew up a lot.'



> I'm talking legendary defense here.


I saw legendary defense knock you guys out of the playoffs in the 80's. THAT'S a legendary defense.



> I'm talking three out of five starters on the all-time first team.


I know, I know, your ridiculous home town bias that blinds you to everything. I suffer from it too, I call AI a top 3 player in the league.

Jordan is not the best defensive 2 in the history of the league, though.



> Chalk it up to a watered-down league if it makes you feel better.


Why would the truth make me feel better? Anyone will tell you the league was the most watered down in the 90's.



> You were in kindergarten when I was celebrating the 91 championship.


And you'd think after all those years of watching basketball you'd be able to look at it from an honesty perspective and not your own idiotic borderline racist ideals. Congratulations man, you're older than me. My best friend's grandfather grew up with Wilt and Greer in Overbrook and watched the Sixers since they first moved to Philadelphia and he says Wilt is a ton better than Jordan. You can't argue that, though. Your parents were still kids when he watched Wilt play.

See how idiotic the logic is?



> Don't act like you know anything about what went down back then. Stick to Iverson and Marbury.


For such a genius you make a lot of assumptions and blanket statements. I don't like Marbury. And so, by your logic, you will agree with my friend's grandfather's statement that Wilt is better than Jordan, right? He saw both of them play.

Seriously man, stick to Payton and Jordan. Don't act like you have any idea about what went down in the 60's.

Ah, the joy of using someone's idiotic rhetoric against them.



> Well, good for you! Chances are that you're probably "enamored" by all kinds of crap if you're an Iverson fan.


Thanks! I'm happy that you think I'm enamored with crap! I am absolutely happy that someone older than me who is therefore my superior thinks enough about me to call my interests crap!



> You're showing your age here. There are exceptions to everything in life. You might learn that someday, I dunno. Isiah Thomas just happened to be an efficient shoot-first PG, and those Pistons might have been the deepest defensive squad in NBA history.


What was so much more proficient about Isiah than Iverson? Iverson averages about the same amount of assists as Isiah since his move to point guard, there's no reason to bleieve he won' hit 10 assists a game in a season. Of course Isiah shot a better percentage than AI. Since you've seen the leauge since I was in diaper, I'm sure you're well aware that defenses have evolved greatly and are a lot more advanced now than they were back in the 80's, hence why FG% is down, right? Isiah's Piston's revolutionized the way teams played defense. Hence, why they shut down your boy Jordan.



> You have the greatest defensive PF of all time in Rodman, one of the most underrated defenders out of the SG slot in Joe Dumars, effective shot-altering forces off the bench in Rick Mahorn and John Salley, the crafty Bill Laimbeer, etc


Thanks for naming players to show off how much more you know than me man, seriously, I'm really happy that you can explain different players purposes in one or two words as if i have no idea what you're talking about.

Also, who the **** underrates Dumars? most people i know consider him the greatest defensive 2 of all time.



> That's what I would call defense and then some.


It also helped that they created the defensive principles that most defensive teams like the Knicks of the 90's and the Spurs of this millenium have emulated to just as great of an effect.

Also, Dikembe Mutombo made your list of greatest defensive players of all time-however, the only Piston that did was Rodman. Wouldn't you say Iverson had a pretty good shot with Deke, then, being that Deke is better than every Piston defender other than Rodman in your book?



> Isiah Thomas went along for the ride. Put him on pretty much any other team and surround him with your typical talent set in those days, and he's basically a more efficient version of Steve Francis.


Sounds like someone is a little upset about the Pistons wiping their *** with the Bulls in the year before the league was completely watered down.

Isn't it ironic Jordan only won championships 3 years following expansion? Haha...i always found that kind of funny.



> In a typical game, how many ill-advised low percentage shots does Iverson take? You call that efficient offense?


Yo bro have you ever even watched Iverson before? You sound like one of those people who make their assesments based on stats and not actually watching players. Take it from someone who's watched about 60% of Sixers games over the past four years-Iverson hardly ever takes bad shots anymore, and when he does, it's because his teammates defer to him when the shot clock is going down and he doesn't want a 24 second violation.

Damn, man, for someone who's 'watched the league' since I was still a sperm you sure don't seem to know much about the player you're attacking.



> Meanwhile, Duncan or Shaq are taking shots at or near the rim -- the highest percentage shots possible. They're not firing bricks from the perimiter that turn into fast break points for the other team.


Again, maybe you should watch Iverson before you make idiotic statements. You might think you're winning this argument for whatever reason, but any Sixers fan reading this diatribe is probably hysterical right now. The majority of the time Iverson takes perimeter shots it's because he has a good look, unless like I said the shot clock is running down. Most of Iverson's shots come from him driving to the basket. You know, the high percentage shots you were talking about. Plus, when he goes to the rim, JUST LIKE SHAQ AND DUNCAN, the other team focuses on him and collapses in one way or another, giving his team open looks. Since you're a basketball expert and have been watching the game for years I'm sure you can grasp that aspect.



> *Offensive Powerhouse Effect* omg that is hysterical. Who comes up with this nonsense? A conservative, defensive brand of offense is what guys like Duncan, Shaq, Garnett, Stoudamire, etc play. Good god, try again.


Okay, let me break it down for you. I said nothing about whether he has a free form offense or a more conservative, defensive brand. What type of offensive style he has and he brings has nothing to do with what I was saying. For being so much older than us, you certainly might want to reinvest some time into developing a skill called 'reading comprehension.' Maybe they didn't teach it in high school back in the 20's.

Let me break it down again. When Iverson steps foot on the floor, everyone on the defense has to pay special attention to him. Defense today is based on help defense, you'll agree, correct? So when Iverson blows by his first defender-which he will-someone's gotta help out or else it's a foul or an easy duce. So say he blows by Snow and LeBron comes out to help, but LeBron leaves Iguodala open. Iverson dishes the ball to Iguodala, who more often than not makes an open jump. Better yet, what if the teammates don't move fast enough or can't help against Iverson? he gets fouled or an easy duce. What if too many players go over to help? a lot of people have more space to create a shot. Little factors like this can completely disrupt a team's defensive chemistry.

Take it from someone who watches the kid and doesn't look at stat sheets on the internet. Most of Iverson's assists and his teammates high percentage shots come from him disrupting chemistry and getting his teammates space. Why do you think his teammates have such a high FG% this year?



> Again, you're showing your age here. There are numerous ways to build a defensive squad, and a undersized, defensive-minded combo guard is hardly a requirement.


Again, reading comprehension. Develop better skills in that area. I never said that a defensive squad needs an undersized defensive minded combo guard. I said that small combo guards need a defensive minded squad.

It might help your argument when you actually understand what you're reading.



> You need someone out on the perimiter to contain the other team's best outside scorer, and Iverson is pretty effing far from that guy.


Find me one part in my post where I said defensive teams need players like Iverson. I said Iverson needs a defensive team. Again. Reading comprehension. Go to the local community college and take a few English classes.

Oh, and join a debate club, too. It might help you from using terrible rhetoric's that are easy to reverse against you and pathetic cop-outs.



> He can barely contain the other team's PG, as you can shoot over him all you want.


"Allen Iverson is the most underrated guard defensively in the league."-Gary Payton, who was on your list of top defenders. He would know, too. He's older than you and your age would show in an argument against him.

God I love using this idiotic rhetoric against you.



> On that 2000-2001 team, with the depth that they had, you could have thrown plenty of guys into that SG slot and it would have been the same difference


I'm hoping I need a more advanced skill in reading comprehension because I can not believe my interpretation of what I just read.. Are you honestly saying that the 2001 Sixers would have been just as good with any other 2guard? Seriously man, stop looking at basketballreference.com and thinking you know what you're talking about and watch some games.

Take it from someone who does watch Sixers games...without Iverson we would have been lucky to win more than 30 games that year.



> And you continue to insist that Isiah Thomas was the primary reason those Detroit teams won. That's ridiculous.


Yo man, seriously. Again with the reading comprehension thing. I never said Isiah Thomas was the main reason those teams won. I was saying that Isiah is proof that small guards need great defenses to win, just like AI in 2001. 



> They won with superior team defense, everybody knows that. Isiah was a decent defender, nothing special.


Really man? I thought the Pistons won with an insane 80's Nuggets offense with huge contributions from Dennis Rodman and Laimbeer who both averaged about 20 ppg that year. You mean to tell me the Pistons repeated because of their defense? WOW!



> Yo yo man, dead that! Go throw on another 50 Cent album.


Wow man, and you're going to insult me for using slang?

Here's some advice for the next time you try to debate, since I see you're struggling with it:

1) Don't use your age as a reason why you know more than someone. That's an easily turned around rhetoric.
2) Watch games instead of making judgement off of stats on a website.
3) Don't use so many cop outs.
4) actually understand what the person you're arguing with is saying before you argue with them, or else you'll look like an idiot.

Also, if you're so old and knowledgable, what are you doing arguing with a bunch of teenagers on an internet message board? Shouldn't you be working for ESPN or something with that timely knowledge? Sounds like someone needs a life.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

All I am going to say is Great post Effin One. I am from Hammer's generation and yes there was alot of Bias and inconsistences in his post


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## SirCharles34 (Nov 16, 2004)

I 2nd that. great post dude. 

Iverson is by far the best in the Atlantic hands down.


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## The Effin One (Jul 22, 2005)

thanks guys. my apologies if i came off as being too aggressive. I just hate when people use 'i've seen the league since the 80's so i know more than you' as an argument.


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## RedsDrunk (Oct 31, 2005)

Ranks #1 in the NBA in Points Per Game(34.0) Ranks #5 in the NBA in Assists Per Game(7.9) 
Ranks #5 in the NBA in Steals Per Game(2.0) Ranks #1 in the NBA in Minutes Per Game(44.2) 
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Minutes Played(707.0) Ranks #1 in the NBA in Field Goals Made(183.0) 
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Field Goal Attempts(405.0) Ranks #1 in the NBA in Free Throws(161.0) 
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Free Throw Attempts(199.0) Ranks #3 in the NBA in Assists(127.0) 
Ranks #4 in the NBA in Steals(32.0) Ranks #1 in the NBA in Points(544.0) 
Ranks #13 in the NBA in Assists Per Turnover(2.76) Ranks #2 in the NBA in Field Goals Per 48 Minutes(12.42) 
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Field-Goal Attempts Per 48 Minutes(27.5) Ranks #1 in the NBA in Free Throws Per 48 Minutes(10.93) 
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Free Throw Attempts Per 48 Minutes(13.51) Ranks #18 in the NBA in Assists Per 48 Minutes(8.6) 
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Points Per 48 Minutes(36.9) Ranks #8 in the NBA in Total Turnovers(46.0) 
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Total Efficiency Points(453.0) Ranks #3 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking(28.31) 
Ranks #10 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking Per 48 Minutes(30.76) Ranks #17 in the NBA in Turnovers Per Game(2.88) 


^^I'd say that pretty much qaulifies him as the best player in the ATL. @ this point


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## HawksFan8 (Apr 21, 2005)

I would agree that he is the best player in the Atlantic hands down.
He also makes guys around him better. That is something Richard Jefferson 
and Paul Pierce do not do. Last year Jefferson was fine with his stats when
Jason Kidd was out but they weren't winning and the Celtics can't win with
Paul now (and they couldn't last year either)


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## AIFAN3 (Sep 17, 2005)

best player in the atlantic? Is that question even worth asking? there is no player really close to Ai in the atlantic right now.. But in terms of best players in the league i think it goes..

1.Tim Duncan
2.Kevin Garnett
3.LeBron james
4.Iverson/Wade/Kobe its really a tie


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## Kunlun (Jun 22, 2003)

Oh my God... Iverson's stats are so crazy right now. I don't think he's ever played this well before.


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## theKidd-5 (Oct 4, 2005)

Iverson is the best player in the atlantic..
but this coming from a net fan... i think its safe to say that new jerseys Big 3 are in the top 5....


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## jpk (May 4, 2005)

I think Boston and Paul Pierce would have something to say about that.


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## RedsDrunk (Oct 31, 2005)

jpk said:


> I think Boston and Paul Pierce would have something to say about that.


Hahaha prolly something along the lines of " Brah that Pauly is wicked awsome. Go Sawks." 

~reps himself~


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## Iverson3Philly (Dec 8, 2005)

i personally think that iverson is the best in the league
some people disagree but its obvious


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## Real (Aug 3, 2005)

I believe that Iverson is the best player in the Atlantic, his stats are crazy, but he doesn't play on the best team. However, I am a big Iverson fan.


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## Sixerfanforlife (Jun 23, 2005)

The best team in the Atlantic or the best team in the conference? If it's the former, then your kidding yourself, winning by getting momentum on a tip-in isn't my kind of game. If you mean the best team in the conference, that's obviously goes to the Detroit Pistons who have the best record in the league. But Charles Barkley said it himself the playoffs is what counts you can be 42-40 and get the eighth seed, and still win it all.


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