# GT: Pre-Season Game 6 @ Lakers 10/21



## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

<center> Sun. Oct 21st
7:30 PM
TV: FSN </center>


----------



## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Interesting game so far, not much in it in terms of excitement except for the very sweet dunk Thornton just had right before the half. Thornton is doing well and I am very pleased to watching as he looks good. Maggette is doing real well at getting to the line as he has already been there 12 times and its only half. Kaman is doing ok but it is nice seeing that he is going for the dunk this year.


----------



## PAIDNFULL23 (Jul 9, 2005)

Clippers are playin pretty good right now. Al is an offensive stud! P Diddy aka Paul Davis is looking like the guy how should have got the 50 mil extension instead of sorry *** Kaman. The perimeter shots are falling which is good. Patterson is providing great hustle, he looks like he is going to help us alot in that area.


----------



## PAIDNFULL23 (Jul 9, 2005)

Nice elevation and finesse on fast break layup by Thornton. It looked like a simple layup but nobody else on the Clippers can make that play and make it look so smooth and easy. He has 19 points right now I think on only 13 shots. He's also 3-3 from 3 point range.


----------



## PAIDNFULL23 (Jul 9, 2005)

Kaman is so careless and stupid with the ball. If it wasn't for his contract and the fact that he was drafted so high, PD would be staring over him, Davis is clearly the more skilled player, with out a doubt.


----------



## PAIDNFULL23 (Jul 9, 2005)

With the way Thorn and Patterson are playing tonight, Q Ross should be buried on the bench. No way in hell should he be getting more than 15 mpg and taking away time from those two.


----------



## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Great game by Thorton, he looked fantastic. He ended up with 24 points and 5 rebounds, not to mention he was 4-5 from 3! Thorton had one great dunk and one really tough made 3 at the shot clock buzzer. Davis turned it around in the 2nd half and was making some nice jumpers. Maggette played well as most of his time came in the 1st half. Patterson played hard. Dickau played well and I am getting the feeling by the amount of time he has been playing that right now he may be the 2nd option for PG. It was good that this game was on tv.


----------



## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

i really really really like Thorton, Ruben patterson is too Maggetteish as far as trying to drive to the hoop every single time down, but i wouldnt mind having him going into the season, Q Shot a 3 wooah!
ok game overall, and i saw Dickau for the first time in a Clippers uni, he moves around good and moves well looks good out there, WHY IS IT THAT HE DID NOT HAVE A TEAM ??? injury problems? ? is he a sorry shooter? ? ?WHAT!!?

damn there is not reason why we cant make it to the playoffs with Al 
GO CLIPPERS!


----------



## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

I agree it was nice to see Q make a 3, heck he made 2 and both were swishes. I believe I read somewhere that he had been working on his 3's and it is part of his game now.


----------



## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

my first clipper game and its a victory, sucks not to see Elton out there but im excited about AL
oooh man cant wait till the first game of the season then we will see what our guys can do WHEN IT COUNTS 

!


----------



## Wilmatic2 (Oct 30, 2005)

Thornton looked realy impressive.


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Ok. first clippper game ive seen since summerleague. Gave me a good idea of a lot of things i was wondering about. First of all, im not even paying attention to this box score, i dont think its important in this setting. What i was looking for were tendencies. Tell tale good/bad signs. Movement away from the ball, etc. etc.

Here is my analysis

1. Dunleavvy - Dont really see this new up tempo thing he said he would try. Still heard him call out the same plays mostly. I like kaman in the high post area with some new entry passes...more on that later. But one thing that i was really pleased with, was out of a timeout, the clippers did a full court play that actually was beautiful. Ended with a thornton dunk, but it was drawn up beautifully. How many times last year did we see a timeout called, and the play out of the timeout completely inploded?

2. Davis - Not impressed at all. I still say he doesnt belong in the league, or else just a journeyman. Not looking at the box score, i know he scored a lot, but he didnt show me any improvement over last year. His major problems are lack of speed to really play PF, or guard PF's, and lack of size to play center, or guard centers. He looked exactly the same as last year. Decent outside shot when open, and hit his layups/dunks. But not that great defensively on man up. and still too slow to guard the PF's. For some reason the lakers just refused to guard him tonight, leaving him open for outside shots, and back doors left and right. But he doesnt have anything where he can create his own shot. One thing he does have, which might keep him in the league, is his court awareness. He doesnt have altheticism at all, but seems to always be in the right spot at the right time for rebounds. Like he can sense where the ball will be. Same with getting open. Hes a 2nd roudn pick, so i wouldnt call him a bust...just dont think hes worth more than 500K a year. 

2. Kaman - last year he improved leaps and bounds in the passing department, and might even be a bit better this year again. A couple times he caught the ball in the post. Instead of dribbling right away, he surveyed the court and got a couple assists by kicking it out. Also some beautiful entry passes on curl moves to thornton and maggette, i believe they even blew a couple layups off of them. Footwork pretty good, made some moves tonight that not many 7 footers, bynum included in the league can do. The troubling thing was his shot was going in and out again. I dont understand how one person can have so many shots go in and out. Just odds itself is against something like that happening. But, anyway, was pleased with what i saw. Really locked down chris mihm when mihm came in. Another thing he improved on, attacking the basket with authority. He got fouled on some nice drives, where he was going for dunks, when last year they might have been weak layup attempts. 

3. Maggette - Maggette was maggette. I see zero improvement, but someone his age you dont really expect to improve anyway. I say he goes for over 20 this year since the ball will be in his hands more. He still does the same old stuff, nothing new from him...occasional jump shot...getting fouled....couple missed and-1s, some silly TO's, but at the end of the night we should be able t ocount on 22 points from him. 

4. Cassell - Looks a step slower. I hope its just him toning it down in the preseason. Shot not completely there. Im worried about him lasting the season. Hope hes just saving his a game for the regular season.

5. Ross - We know his defense, what i wanted to see was more outside shot, because hes a SF trapped in a SG's body at this time. He didnt dissapoint. Hit 2 three pointers i believe, something i doubt he has ever done in any game in his career. Thats what he needs to do. 

6. Mobley - A little rusty, but to be expected. I think we can count on a similar year to last year with him. 

7. patterson - Really hustles on both ends of the court. Played the passing lanes well. I cant see how he doesnt get on the roster. Hes a dunleavvy type guy. 

8. Williams - Outside of a dunk, he pretty much stunk it up on both ends of the court. At this point even davis is better than him. 

9. Dickau - Very pleased when he was running the team. Had some great penetration, stretched the defense with the outside shooting, and really pushes the ball on the break, not to mention just on normal possessions, getting the offense started early in the shot clock. 

10. Knight - DONT like him at all. He got his trademark steals i guess, but i hate him running our team. Hes like ewing...takes his sweet time getting into the offense, barely crossing the half court to beat the 8 second clock, then not getting into the offense unti like 12-14 secs left on the shot clock. Since he has no outside shot, defense can stay home on him, making it harder for the post guys, and guys like maggette to drive. 

11. thornton - As i suspected, very similar skill set to singleton. Jumps high, good outside shot when open, good instincts on the glass, looks to be decent shot blocker. The thing that sets thornton apart from singleton though is probably his lack of timidness. Singleton at times would pass up shots, and wouldnt be aggressive, instead passing the ball off. Thornton just goes for it. Most of his shots were good, and in the offense, probably only 2 bad shots all evening. Thats what will keep him in the lineup. If he gets like the maggette of early last year, and starts chucking bad shots, he will be benched right away. I doubt he had any assists tonight, that might be a problem with him. But good to see his aggresiveness, and that he is not intimidated by being a rookie. Not sure how much dunleavvy had to do with it, but singleton never seemed to have confidence out there, even though he had the skills. 

Korolev didnt play that i saw, diaz played like a few seconds. Thomas didnt play. Not sure who im forgetting.


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

By the way, farmar was tearing it up.


----------



## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

:sigh: Thornton is horrid, we should have taken S. Williams or Rodney Stuckey over him for sure, he can't do anything and is too old. 

Ok but seriously, I'm not going to comment on this game, but I'll break down the box score .

Lakers:
Andrew Bynum: 16|4|1 with 1 block, 1 turnover on 6-8 shooting and 4-9 FT.
Jordan Farmar: 19|6|5 with 2 steals, 0 turnovers, 7-10 FG and 3-4 3PT.
Kobe Bryant: 10|3|1 with *7* turnovers on 1-4 shooting, 8-8 FT.

Clippers:
Al Thornton: 24|5|0 with 1 block, 2 turnovers, 9-17 FG and 4-5 3pt.
Paul Davis: 15|6|5 with 1 turnover and 5-8 FG.
Corey Maggette: 22|5|2 with 2 steals and 2 turnovers on 6-9 shooting
Cuttino Mobley: 7|4|6 with 1 steal, 1 block, 0 turnovers on 3-9 shooting

Rest of boxscore

I have to say if Mobley can continue to get around 5 boards and dimes nightly, I'll be content with him, as long as he doesn't shoot 3-9 nightly.


----------



## MR. VADA (Jun 29, 2006)

Damn, we might have to keep Paul Davis if he plays like that. He still needs to get more rebounds though and play better defense, but he looked real good. But if Dickau makes it over Diaz I'm gonna cry. Me, I would cut A. Williams. He dosen't get to play, and he seemed like he's been taking bad shots on purpose to get cut cause I know he's better than that. 
He looked like Andre Miller out there. 


And Al Thornton is Al Thornton. Did you see Kobe go to his sorry a** play ground crossover and Al tapped the ball away? Kobe was about to try to go off on Al like he did to Durant a couple games ago, but Phil probably didn't wan't him to get hurt trying to. I think Thornton should start if he can stay out of foul trouble. He's making Corey play better and look kinda bad in a good way cause it's his contract year. 

I think we can make the playoffs and advance out of the first round once we get Elton back. Hollinger looks stupider and stupider by the day...vada


----------



## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

yamaneko said:


> 2. Davis - Not impressed at all. I still say he doesnt belong in the league, or else just a journeyman. Not looking at the box score, i know he scored a lot, but he didnt show me any improvement over last year. His major problems are lack of speed to really play PF, or guard PF's, and lack of size to play center, or guard centers. He looked exactly the same as last year. Decent outside shot when open, and hit his layups/dunks. But not that great defensively on man up. and still too slow to guard the PF's. For some reason the lakers just refused to guard him tonight, leaving him open for outside shots, and back doors left and right. But he doesnt have anything where he can create his own shot. One thing he does have, which might keep him in the league, is his court awareness. He doesnt have altheticism at all, but seems to always be in the right spot at the right time for rebounds. Like he can sense where the ball will be. Same with getting open. Hes a 2nd roudn pick, so i wouldnt call him a bust...just dont think hes worth more than 500K a year.
> 
> 2. Kaman - last year he improved leaps and bounds in the passing department, and might even be a bit better this year again. A couple times he caught the ball in the post. Instead of dribbling right away, he surveyed the court and got a couple assists by kicking it out. Also some beautiful entry passes on curl moves to thornton and maggette, i believe they even blew a couple layups off of them. Footwork pretty good, made some moves tonight that not many 7 footers, bynum included in the league can do. The troubling thing was his shot was going in and out again. I dont understand how one person can have so many shots go in and out. Just odds itself is against something like that happening. But, anyway, was pleased with what i saw. Really locked down chris mihm when mihm came in. Another thing he improved on, attacking the basket with authority. He got fouled on some nice drives, where he was going for dunks, when last year they might have been weak layup attempts.
> 
> ...


Good god. I haven't posted on this site in forever and this is why. An absolute HORRIBLE evaluation of the two most important positions in basketball. Soo biased it makes me want to actually ask if you really watched the game, but I'm convinced it wouldn't really matter. 

Anyone who has watched the clippers the last few years would be able to tell so I don't need to go into any real detail.. but did you actually say "Kaman - last year he improved leaps and bounds in the passing department, and might even be a bit better this year again"? The words Kaman and improvement combined with last year = stop reading. You compared Brevin with Ewing.. two totally different players. HAHA And your pleased with Dan Dickau.. a 3rd string PG AT BEST! The guy is soo bad/slow on defense I'd probably rather have Sammy trying to lock somebody down.

Paul Davis looks soo much better than Kaman out there its rediculous.. I can see where the admiration for Kaman comes in.. you both don't have a simple understanding for the game. 

*** Not intended to be a personal attack, just a disagreement in talent evaluation.


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

This is what happens, when you use emotion to analyze things instead of logic. Emotion of hating on certain players or misconstruing what someone else said never results in a factual analysis.

Lets go over what you "disagreed" with. Kaman improving leaps and bounds last year in passing. You dont agree? And you watched all the games the last few years? From 03-04 kaman could not hit a moving target with a pass. His only assists came from perhaps immediate kickouts after getting the ball in the post. But last year, and many others noticed it, he started hitting people back door, his court vision improved dramatically. Am I saying he became Sabonis? No, but compared to how kaman was two years ago, last year he improved dramatically. 

This game he showed even more signs of improvement. The new play that Dunleavvy im assuming drew up of a close to the basket curl by the SF/SG, he was hitting pinpoint passes that not all centers can hit, and kaman himself even last year i never saw hit. 

And how did I compare Brevin Knight and Ewing? I said that they both were very slow in getting the ball up the court, and getting the offense in gear. Are you going to tell me you watched last nights game, and tell me something different? 

Davis looking better than Kaman? That right there shows your knowledge of the game. Davis did little to nothing NBA level wise that was great, other than being in the right place at the right time. He was too slow to guard the PF's of the other team, too slow to get out on dunleavvy's pic and role defense plan (even getting called for a foul on or two times for getting out late). Davis didnt do anything to create his own shot the whole game. Everything came on wide open jump shots, back door cuts, etc.


----------



## PAIDNFULL23 (Jul 9, 2005)

I'm sorry but I only watched the second half of last nights game and in the little time that Kaman was in he made at least three horrible and careless passes that resulted in TOs. I even remember that one pass was so stupid(trying to make a cross court pass to Maggette or Thornton through three defenders and telegraphing it for 3 secs before he actually passed it) that going into a timeout the cameras showed Cassell getting into Kaman's *** for making such a stupid *** pass.

And Yamaneko, the way you are putting down Davis it's like you think that he was the 6th overall pick instead of Kaman because for a mid 2nd round pick he has played very well and haves definatley outplayed Kaman, no matter what way you try to spin it. 

It's like you have super high expectations for Davis and super low expectations for Kaman, like he was the 2nd round pick. Like saying Kaman has been improving his passing when he really hasn't(Get just two people on this board to agree with you on that one and I'll say you were right) and saying that Davis can't create his own shot, **** Amare, Dwight Howard and most big men can't create their own shots but are still elite players. So why put him down for that, was he advertised as being someone who can create his own shot? No.

I'll rather have a guy who is in the right places at the right time, making his open shots(which Kaman can't even seem to do 2ft from the basket sometimes) and playing with high basketball IQ instead of someone who turns the ball over way to much for a center and fails to play up to his talent.


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Kaman had the terrible pass as well, yes. Many players had completely bone headed plays, as everyone does every game. There were 15 TO's in the game spread over 8 players. What to look for is signs of improvement, or trend differences. Im sure you would agree that a great many of Kaman's TO's last year was from over dribbling down low, and getting ripped by shorter players coming in to double. We didnt see that tonight. Hopefully thats a sign of things to come. If kaman has 2 steals and a block each game, i certainly dont mind 3 TO's. 

As far as Davis, what did i say? I said that its not like much is to be expected, or that hes a bust, since he was a 2nd round pick. Im highlighting his ineptitude to show how poor our front court is...arguably, Davis right now is our BEST option off of the bench in the front court, and hes not very good. Hes a guy who probably would not have been on our active roster in 04/05...yet this year we are so thin, hes our number 1 big off of the bench. 

Davis has not outplayed Kaman this preaseason, unless youre counting the games where kaman hasnt played. 

Youre telling me you do not believe Kaman has improved in his passing? in that case, you would be the kaman lover, not me. Because If you say that kaman has always been able to do the kind of passes he did last night, then wow, you must really love kaman to make that up. Kaman couldnt hit a moving car from the high post before. I think anyone who has watched all of his games the last few years would agree, unless they think that kaman is perfect, and has always been able to make passes from the low and high post like that. 

Amare cannot create his own shot? Dwight howard cannot create his own shot? So i suppoes all of their points come off of pick and roll plays, alley oops, and wide open jump shots? What? Amare can beat his guy off of the dribble almost better than any guy his size. Also has some post moves. Dwight too has great moves down low, he doesnt get all of his points just on put backs and alley oops. Im putting him down for not being able to create his own shot, because the dunleavvy offense is designed for the big guys to get isolation plays, and thats where they would get the majority of their points. There will be a game every now and then like last night, where the other team just decides not to guard you, but im sure youd agree, thats the exception, not the rule. To suceed as a big in dunleavvys offense (unless youre a 3 point shooter like thomas), you have to be able to score in an isolation play, whether it be in the post, or high post, beating your man off of the quick dribble.

But, you sum up the other reason why i point out the davis ineptitude, is because there are actually people on the board who say davis is better than kaman, or who they would rather have davis than kaman if given the choice. They are not even on the same planet at this point. And its not just dunleavvy's fault. If Davis were a FA this year, would anyone think he would be offered a 50 million dollar deal? 40? 30? 20? 10? 5? 

I was hoping davis would have improved over last year. Either to lose weight and become a brian cook or tim thomas like perimeter player, or to really become a beast in the low post. But i dont see it at this point. Again, not a big dissapointement, hes only a 2nd round pick, but for the clippers sake i was hoping that our best backup big would have been a little better than he is.


----------



## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

yamaneko said:


> This is what happens, when you use emotion to analyze things instead of logic. Emotion of hating on certain players or misconstruing what someone else said never results in a factual analysis.
> 
> Lets go over what you "disagreed" with. Kaman improving leaps and bounds last year in passing. You dont agree? And you watched all the games the last few years? From 03-04 kaman could not hit a moving target with a pass. His only assists came from perhaps immediate kickouts after getting the ball in the post. But last year, and many others noticed it, he started hitting people back door, his court vision improved dramatically. Am I saying he became Sabonis? No, but compared to how kaman was two years ago, last year he improved dramatically.
> 
> ...


Well here are quotes from VERY knowledgable clips fans on another board:

"I just hope Dumbleavy stays away from politics and gives Davis PT over Kaman if Chris keeps stinking up the joint. There is no reason to play one player over another just because he makes 10 times more money."

" But Paul Davis was ready for it and stuffed Kwame's dunk attempt. Ref called the foul, not a legitimate one, IMO. I really like the way Davis plays! It showed me he's fearless about challenging shots, and that he reviewed game film and knew Kobe liked to do that."

"sipclip wrote: I know that but when Thomas is starting at the 4 will Dun have the balls to yank Kaman and put in Davis if he's playing like crap."
"lets hope so"

AND TO SUM IT UP NICELY:
Paul Davis is one of those guys, who, the more you get him involved, the more you like of him. He set Al Thornton up for two 3-point shots where Thornton was wide open. He tipped a pass on defense and helped pound the boards with Chris Kaman. There were very few, if any, second chance shots by the Lakers when he was in there.

Paul Davis takes the ball out, runs the floor, and helps space the floor properly when the Clippers have the ball. He made a nice slam dunk off a Cuttino Mobley lob (one reason why Mobley should be starting). 

He provided good help defense for Chris Kaman at a time when I thought it'd be the other way around. Paul Davis may get exposed against the Tim Duncan's and Dirk Nowtizki's but the guy's big and strong and can compete just by being 6'11" and 270 lbs."

"Chris Kaman looked like, well, Chris Kaman. The intensity and concentration aren't there. The second the Clippers got Paul Davis involved, he started hitting a few of his shots from the top of the key and made a nice slam dunk. But it's like he had to earn the right (and respect from his teammates) in order to get the ball. 

Chris Kaman literally gets the ball every time he calls for it. Opposing teams have learned to not bite on any of his fakes and play for the left handed hook"

Looks like I'm not the one with blinders on.. 
"


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

So you were basing your ideas off of what other people said? Again, people were saying these things all last year (not me), but what was the reality? Davis wasnt that good for this offense, and dunleavvy didnt play him much. Of COURSE davis should be coming in for kaman OR thomas, whenever either get in foul trouble or arent playing well. Like i said, he is our number 1 big off of the bench it seems like. Who else are we going to bring in? Powell hasnt shown anything yet it seems, Williams is a waste of money. 

There is NO reason, barring foul trouble, that powell or williams should take time away from davis, thats how bad those two guys seem to be. But lets see if that actually happens. If davis was as good as some think he is, he would have got more PT last year. If davis is "better" than kaman, then CERTAINLY guys like williams and powell will not take a minute away from his PT this year. Lets see. 

Some of the other things mentioned above, quite laughable. Davis is "fearless" challenging shots beacuse he tried to block a shot from someone 4 inches and 60 pounds shorter than him? And beacuse he went for the block, somehow that means that for sure he must have studied exact film on that? 

The reason there were no 2nd chance opportunities for the lakers was because of paul davis and his 3 defensive rebounds? Williams, thornton, Cassell, Maggette, Kaman all had the same or more defensive rebounds than he. 

Davis is only going to be exposed by the Dirks and the duncans of the league? 

Intensity wasnt there for kaman? I dont recall a game in the last 8 months where kaman attacked the basket with authority like last night. Concentration wasnt there? Did a ball hit him in the face? Was he out of position on plays? Was he late getting out to defend the pick and roll, and got called for a foul? Oh no, that was davis. But still, unless someone is just standing there doing nothing, like wilcox did every now and then, i dont see how we can say they are lacking concentration. 

Kaman gets the ball when he calls for it? What kind of statement is that? The offense is DESIGNED to get whomever in the post the ball if the play is open. Sometimes the play isnt open, and kaman, or whomever is there doesnt get the ball. To make a statement like kaman gets the ball whenever he calls for it...like hes kobe or something calling for the ball outside the 3 point line is ridiculous. 

If youre going to use quotes from other people to try to make a point, pick better quotes.


----------



## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

My take on Kaman vs Davis. There is no doubt Kaman is a superior player.

Passing: I don't think Chris has 'improved' his passing, it's just the fact he's actually looking to pass as opposed to taking 10 dribbles 4 feet away from the basket like he used too. If you want to say he's improved his passing, go ahead, but I have to say he has just improved his decision making in that perspective. No doubt Davis is a better passer then Chris, so I won't get into that.

Scoring: Sure, Davis can't create his own shot, but I don't think we'll need him for that. He'll be more of the kick-out guy to hit the jumper or play the Vlade|B. Miller role by passing it out of the post constantly. Kaman still misses some point-blank shots and just doesn't seem like the shot falls in as it rims right back out. Neither can really create, Kaman mainly spins before he tries to shoot, and can't seem to hit a jumper, while Davis is eh in the post but can hit jumpers. 

Rebounding: Chris is easily the better rebounder as he boxes out very well and has the strength to do so, while Davis isn't good at boxing out, but seems to know where the ball will go somehow at times. 


Now, I'm not saying Davis = Kaman or close to being on Chris' level, but Davis is the one who is exceeding expectations as a mid 2nd rounder while Kaman has to come back and show he just had a bad year. 

I still remember the Raps wanted Kaman over Wade, which would have led Heat taking Bosh and obviously Wade would have been a Clipper.


----------



## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

yamaneko said:


> So you were basing your ideas off of what other people said? Again, people were saying these things all last year (not me), but what was the reality? Davis wasnt that good for this offense, and dunleavvy didnt play him much. Of COURSE davis should be coming in for kaman OR thomas, whenever either get in foul trouble or arent playing well. Like i said, he is our number 1 big off of the bench it seems like. Who else are we going to bring in? Powell hasnt shown anything yet it seems, Williams is a waste of money.
> 
> There is NO reason, barring foul trouble, that powell or williams should take time away from davis, thats how bad those two guys seem to be. But lets see if that actually happens. If davis was as good as some think he is, he would have got more PT last year. If davis is "better" than kaman, then CERTAINLY guys like williams and powell will not take a minute away from his PT this year. Lets see.
> 
> ...


No I'm not basing my thoughts off of what others are saying.. I'm pointing out that astute clipper fans AGREE with what I'm saying. These are"die hard" fans that are not "homers" and over the last year + have tried to give Kaman the benefit of the doubt, but his play has become so bad, inconsistant (whatever term you want to use) they can't defend him anymore. 
The only reason Paul Davis didn't get more pt last year (and he deserved it) was because Kaman is "Dumbleavy's guy". He's the one who got Kaman his deal (Kaman even said he wouldn't sign until Dunleavy was taken care of)and it was obvious he wasn't gonna pull his boy out NO MATTER how bad he played. Kaman's play last season didn't warrant even half the minutes he got.
Now I'm not really sure if you watched the game.. P. DAvis challenged Kwame at the rim and made an excellent block. Is Kwame "4 inches and 60 pounds shorter" as you said the Davis.. hmmm.

Did you even check the box score.. Davis had 3 more points and only 2 fewer rebounds (1off, 1def) and thats in almost 7 FEWER MINUTES! Davis had 5 assists (2 that set up Al Thorton for wide open 3's)and only 1 turnover. 
Kaman calls for the ball many times when he's in no position to and then proceeds to force his way to the rim by spinning and usually shuffling his feet. He doesn't work hard for position and make one or two solid go to moves and even if he does find himself with an easy shot he usually chokes it (lets see he shot 36% from the field 66% free throws last night). 
Kaman is a good defender haha. His lack of focus has him always lost and missing rotations (did you like the replay they kept showing when he bites soo hard on the pump fake under the basket and then gives up the and 1). He picked up his 5th foul with over 5 minutes left in the 3rd quarter and that happens all to often. 
Paul Davis is a heady player who understands the game, does the little things that win games while not hurting his team. By no means is he a "top" center but he would help this team win more than Chris Kaman at least the way the two are currently playing. 
I love Davis' quote after the game:
"I just try to get in, we got a lot of scores, so really my thing is get some rebounds, make some good passes, and hit open shots when I have it, get around the basket, go up with it, just do what I’m supposed to be doing. Just stay within my game. Don’t force it. Let it come to you." 

Kaveman needs to work on this.. he's the king of forcing things and not playing within his game.


----------



## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

yamaneko said:


> Ok. first clippper game ive seen since summerleague. Gave me a good idea of a lot of things i was wondering about. First of all, im not even paying attention to this box score, i dont think its important in this setting. What i was looking for were tendencies. Tell tale good/bad signs. Movement away from the ball, etc. etc.
> 
> Here is my analysis
> 
> ...


I completely disagree with your evaluation on Thornton.. I wasnt happy with the pick but it looks like we finally got one right. He is far more talented offensively than Singleton. The kid has all the goods. Didnt know he had 3 pt range but damn he was eaily the most impressive player on the court. Its time to admit you were WRONG! I already have a long time ago!


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

> I don't think Chris has 'improved' his passing, it's just the fact he's actually looking to pass as opposed to taking 10 dribbles 4 feet away from the basket like he used too.


Well first of all, is that not improveing in the passing aspect of his game? its like if i were to say maggette's shooting has improved, but then someone says, well its just his shot selection that has improved. Its the same thing. But at the same time, i still maintain his ability in itself has improved as well. He would throw the ball away his rookie and first year the FEW times he even tried to throw the ball to a curling player. Last night he hit his man every time, and last year he was better as well. Not sure if davis is a better passer. From the PF position there are more opportunities, but i wouldnt say that he has more passing skill than kaman comparing apples to apples. We havent seen enogh of davis to say that. I think for davis to become a guaranteed roster guy for his career, that is one thing within his reach i think he could do. Become a brad miller type passer, and that makes up for any size or speed defficiences. 

Im trying to think of what good big man passers we have had in team history. The only one i can remember is Brian williams (aka bison dele). Kaman is no where near that level in passing, but cmopared to year 1 and 2 kaman, hes much better. 



> Sure, Davis can't create his own shot, but I don't think we'll need him for that. He'll be more of the kick-out guy to hit the jumper or play the Vlade|B. Miller role by passing it out of the post constantly.


I think we do need him for that this year. if he is our first big off of the bench, we need him to score and be able to score. Its going to be hard for him when he has to go one on one during the year...he wont get the complete lack of defense like he had last night all the time. If he was that vlade miller kind of guy, that would be great. From when we drafted him, thats how i envisioned his role if he were to be a long time clipper. Just havent seen it yet. 



> Neither can really create, Kaman mainly spins before he tries to shoot, and can't seem to hit a jumper, while Davis is eh in the post but can hit jumpers.


Most of kamans shots come from creating. Very rare does he get an aley oop, or spot up jump shot. Most of his points come from moves in the post...creating his own shot. 



> Chris is easily the better rebounder as he boxes out very well and has the strength to do so, while Davis isn't good at boxing out, but seems to know where the ball will go somehow at times.


Yup. Agree with that. Davis has an uncanny ability to get to where the ball is going. 



> I still remember the Raps wanted Kaman over Wade, which would have led Heat taking Bosh and obviously Wade would have been a Clipper.


If that had happened, wed have had one or two championships by now. Dang nammit.


----------



## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

DaFranchise said:


> I completely disagree with your evaluation on Thornton.. I wasnt happy with the pick but it looks like we finally got one right. He is far more talented offensively than Singleton. The kid has all the goods. Didnt know he had 3 pt range but damn he was eaily the most impressive player on the court. Its time to admit you were WRONG! I already have a long time ago!


Yeah, but Thornton has already gotten much more freedom than Singleton so it's not an even playing field. Still, James probably couldn't have been that effective offensively except for maybe his best day.

I didn't say he wasn't a good player, just the pick made no sense, but considering how Korolev and Livingston have turned out, it looks like we made the right decision by ignoring this whole "potential" crap and going for a guy who can definitely produce.

Let's just hope this continues beyond the preseason before we start declaring him anything yet.


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

> The only reason Paul Davis didn't get more pt last year (and he deserved it) was because Kaman is "Dumbleavy's guy". He's the one who got Kaman his deal (Kaman even said he wouldn't sign until Dunleavy was taken care of)and it was obvious he wasn't gonna pull his boy out NO MATTER how bad he played. Kaman's play last season didn't warrant even half the minutes he got.


Youre kidding right? you somehow have this insight that has no basis, and no other media critic somehow has been able to find? Even if kaman would have been taken out of the game, williams last year was ahead of him on the depth chart. Is there some kind of behind the scenes action with williams and dunleavvy as well? Davis didnt get PT last year because he stunk it up a lot in dunleavvy's game plan. Kamans play didnt warrant half of the minutes? The guy is one of the best 7 foot centers in the entire league, yet, you are saying williams should have been playing more, and kaman should have only played 15 minutes a game? Give me a break. Compared to the previous year where everyone loved kaman, per 40 minutes, he was only down by .7 points, .9 rebounds, yet actually was UP by 20% on blocks and assists. His FG percentage went down, but nothing he did can make one say we should have played him 15 minutes a game, and instead gave aaron williams kaman's minutes. 



> Now I'm not really sure if you watched the game.. P. DAvis challenged Kwame at the rim and made an excellent block. Is Kwame "4 inches and 60 pounds shorter" as you said the Davis.. hmmm.


I was going off of the ridiculous quote. If you actually read his original comment, he was saying it was kobe doing it, and switched the name kwame into there. 



> Did you even check the box score.. Davis had 3 more points and only 2 fewer rebounds (1off, 1def) and thats in almost 7 FEWER MINUTES!


No, i didnt, not until today. Box score in preaseason just going off of points and rebounds does not determine whats going to happen come season time. Otherwise davis would have already played his way out of the rotation due to the box score clunkers he has had so far...and last year korolev would have been locked in the rotation after his 20 something point game. Like i said, davis scored a lot, but it really didnt show much for the regular season since during the regular season he will be playing a lot more C than PF, plus he probably will actually be defended. 

Kaman was not missing that many rotations, hes the only one who gets out on those pick and rolls to cut off the guard, and consistently does it without picking up fouls, unlike rebraca two years ago, unlike davis does now. Kaman picked up 5 fouls in the 3rd quarter all too often? The entire season last year he averaged only 3 fouls a game. 



> By no means is he a "top" center but he would help this team win more than Chris Kaman at least the way the two are currently playing.


He would not help this team at all if he were taking minutes from kaman. The way the two currently ar eplaying? Again are you basing what should happen in the reguler season over a few Preseason games? What about all the clunkers of preseason games davis has had so far? Preseason is meant to get guys in shape, weed out the bubble players...see which rotations will work well, see if people have improved over previous bad tendencies, etc. Davis having a good preseason game on the box score, means squat in the grand scheme of things. Brent Petway last night had 8 poitns and 6 boards in 20 minutes. Would you want him over travis outlaw who in 26 minutes went 2-10 and had 7 TO's? Darryl Watkins in that same game had 13 poitns in 18 minutes. Think reggie theus is going to give him more minutes than brad miller who hasnt done that hot in preseason? 



> I completely disagree with your evaluation on Thornton.. I wasnt happy with the pick but it looks like we finally got one right. He is far more talented offensively than Singleton. The kid has all the goods. Didnt know he had 3 pt range but damn he was eaily the most impressive player on the court. Its time to admit you were WRONG!


What do you completely disagree about? Why admit i was wrong when i was right? Theres nothing that can happen that would make me wrong since i never said, that thornton was going to be some bust that would be out of the league. I just stated the facts. At the time out pick came up, he was not the right player to get based on team needs, and roster makeup. Thers nothing that can change that FACT. The other thing that I said, would be that for him to be guaranteed big minutes, we would need a serious injury or trade. And even before brand, theres was not one person who gave a reasonable guess on who he would take minutes away from. And now guess what, hes guaranteed minutes due to brands injury. Correct again. I dont see how his offensive skill set is better than Singleton. He does the same things about. The big difference is consistent confidence, and lack of tentativeness. One of the few times we saw that from singleton is when he was the man in the dallas game when brand and others were out, and he went for 20+ points. In that sense, hes better than singleton.


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

> I didn't say he wasn't a good player, just the pick made no sense, but considering how Korolev and Livingston have turned out, it looks like we made the right decision by ignoring this whole "potential" crap and going for a guy who can definitely produce.


Exactly, at the time, the pick made no sense. And actually i wouldnt have taken out a lot of potential. The guys i would have picked first were proven. Bellinelli, young, stuckey, etc.. I MIGHT have picked crittenton before thornton, but THAT would be drafting on "potential."


----------



## shaunliv (Sep 12, 2005)

yamaneko- I can't believe you removed my post just because i disagreed with your nonlogical assessment of Thornton and then REMINDED people of your rediculous topic (which you've ALSO conveniently removed from the forum!!!) 
Look, i'm aware that you're a MODERATOR but it shouldn't give you the right to remove other members posts just because they disagree with or remind you of your horrible talent evaluation. if you're gonna make such bold predictions (especially as a moderator) you should just "face the music" and take the redicule. 
as a moderator you SHOULD set an example.​


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

I havent removed anyones post lately, what are you talking about? I only remove posts when its personal attacks, has profanity, or other things that go against the board rules. And usually, unless its really bad, ill give a warning first. 

I have not removed posts in at least a month. You should get your facts together before accusing me of something. 

Horrible talent evaluation? Tell me how? And what bold predictions have i made that you take offense to?


----------



## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

Its been well documented how poor Chris Kaman played last year.. even in the papers. If you don't think Dunleavy is going to give every (too many) chance in the world to the guy who he is responsible for signing a 50+ million dollar contract well.. your just naive. 

Are you part of Kaman's entourage??


The quote never said Kobe tried to dunk.. re-read please. It just makes your arguements look even worse. 

I watched the replay again (3rd time) and noticed Kaman was in during the last few minutes of complete garbage time when he picked up some of his numbers.. still managing to blow layups and chippies. 

And you say last night Kaman "hit his man every time" .. its OBVIOUS you didn't watch the game. As PAIDNFULL noted he made probably the worst pass in the game which led to a fast break dunk for the lakers.. and Sammy let him have it. OF course the same old blank stare was all he had.


No point in this.. real clips fans know the deal. Kaman better pull his head out of his *** this season and I don't see how thats gonna happen.. he even played in the summer league and sucked!


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

> Its been well documented how poor Chris Kaman played last year.. even in the papers. If you don't think Dunleavy is going to give every (too many) chance in the world to the guy who he is responsible for signing a 50+ million dollar contract well.. your just naive.


You are saying though something that was not in any paper. That somehow Dunleavvy had a secret agenda to play Kaman more minutes than he deserved due to some kind of contract that didnt kick in until the following year. Thats just fantasy there. By benching kaman, that would have just meant giving Williams PT. Kaman at his worst IMO is still better than williams. Dunleavvy didnt have many options. I do think that at times, if we had a healthy rebraca, we would have seen rebraca more. Kaman had a subpar year, but his main issue was FG%. As i stated above, his per 40 rebounding and points were down by miniscule numbers, and other stats he actually increased by about 20%. You say that Dunleavvy played kaman 29 minutes because he had a secret agenda that you somehow uncovered. I say he played him 29 minutes because he still put up decent numbers, plus if he didnt play kaman that meant minutes for Williams which isnt exactly and improvement. 



> Are you part of Kaman's entourage??


No. Only met him a couple of times, i found him eccentric and not very friendly as a matter of fact. 



> The quote never said Kobe tried to dunk.. re-read please. It just makes your arguements look even worse.


Well, the original post was edited by him, it certainly looks different than the first two times i read it. Still, main point valid...we have someone claiming that they know that davis somehow watched specific tape on kwame/kobe from the past in preparation for a preseason game. And his second point of him challenging a shot by ANYONE regardless of size as proof of fearlessness for challenging shots. What is a 6'11 270lbs guy in the paint supposed to do? The average "fearful" player would just stand there and do nothing? 



> And you say last night Kaman "hit his man every time" .. its OBVIOUS you didn't watch the game


On the set play curl pass that I keep talking about. And some of them had a high degree of difficulty due to defensive positioning. Its OBVIOUS youre not reading the posts. Even i talked about his TO where he threw it to the other team. 



> As PAIDNFULL noted he made probably the worst pass in the game which led to a fast break dunk for the lakers.. and Sammy let him have it. OF course the same old blank stare was all he had.


Yup, and he had 2 other Turnovers too. Hard to say one TO is worse than another, especially when they lead to points. The clipers had like 15 other TO's. Were all the other guys who turned it over all the time also guilty of lack of concentration, etc. that kaman supposedly was? Its this kind of thing that irritates me. When one guy's TO is singled out when everyone else was turning it over. if it was a TO that lead to a loss in the game, similar to what cassell, maggette, and manyother clippers are guilty of (i dont recall kaman having a game loosing TO), ok, yeah lets harp on that one TO. 

Kaman should have a decent year this year barring injury. I wonder about all the taping he seemed to haev on his shoulder. I thought it was his back that was messed up. For kaman to "earn" his new contract, id like to see about 15 points and 10-11 rebounds with a couple of blocks. Ive got to think that would be a reasonable expectation the clippers had for him when they gave him that deal, and anything less, especially without brand i think should be considered a dissapointment.


----------



## shaunliv (Sep 12, 2005)

yamaneko said:


> I havent removed anyones post lately, what are you talking about? I only remove posts when its personal attacks, has profanity, or other things that go against the board rules. And usually, unless its really bad, ill give a warning first.
> 
> I have not removed posts in at least a month. You should get your facts together before accusing me of something.
> 
> Horrible talent evaluation? Tell me how? And what bold predictions have i made that you take offense to?


how about this topic:
"Clippers blow it again!!!
http://www.basketballforum.com/los-angeles-clippers/365884-clippers-blow-again.html

where such classics such as, "Thornton does NOT fit into this team at all at all at all, and *its not even as if he has upside*." (WTF!), and
"Honestly i think *singleton is better than thornton*.(horrible evaluation) Singleton has been out of college for years and is probably the same age as this guy. This guy is old enough to be korolevs father. of COURSE i hope were all wrong, but this could go as *one of the worst clipper picks ever*.",


----------



## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

shaunliv said:


> how about this topic:
> "Clippers blow it again!!!
> http://www.basketballforum.com/los-angeles-clippers/365884-clippers-blow-again.html
> 
> ...



HAHA nice! Yeah I don't even want to go and pull the articles in both the LA Times and OC Register slamming Kaman and his play all year. It will just make someone look bad.


----------



## PAIDNFULL23 (Jul 9, 2005)

Yamaneko, there's a big difference between TOs that come naturally with playing basketball and TOs that are b/c someone is being careless, lazy and stupid with the basketball. Kaman's TOs fall into the 2nd category. 

Fans can tolerate some TOs that are the result of hustle or from players that always play hard, such as Patterson, Maggette or Thornton, and fans can tolerate some TOs from guards(such as Cassell) b/c they have the ball in their hands alot, which increases the chance of TOs, but fans get tired of TOs that result from being careless with the ball, which Kaman is alot of the times he has the ball, the previously mentioned TO that lead to a Mo Evans dunk being just one of many examples of Kaman's careless TOs, it is a recurring thing with him and people are sick of it.

How you can keep making excuses for him is beyond me.


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

> "Thornton does NOT fit into this team at all at all at all, and its not even as if he has upside."


And what do you take offense to there? Those were very accurate descriptions at the time of the draft. We had a healthy brand, thomas, williams, davis, maggette, ross, korolev, singleton, mobley, all of whom can play one or both of the positions that thornton played. Even as it stood then, he was maybe 3rd in line for time at PF, and 3rd or 4th in line at SF depending on how dunleavvy would have changed things. That was a 100% accurate statement i made. As is the statement on lack of upside. SOMETIMES, you do take risks, and get a guy that doesnt necessarily fit into your team, just because he has ridiculous upside, like marvin williams in atlanta. But you couldnt even say that in this situation due to thorntons age. And thats exactly what the media said to as to why other teams passed on him. Aagin, I made a 100% accurate statement based on fact, and based on what was already being said, i didnt make it up. 



> Honestly i think singleton is better than thornton.(horrible evaluation) Singleton has been out of college for years and is probably the same age as this guy. This guy is old enough to be korolevs father. of COURSE i hope were all wrong, but this could go as one of the worst clipper picks ever.",


Again, what is your beef? Their skill set is very similar, and at the time of the draft you had to go with singleton who was set to make like half or less as much money, and already knew the system, compared with a similar skill set player that did not know our offense. And by saying it could go as one of the worst clipper draft picks ever, what offense do you take there? Look what has had to happen so far for it to start working out, and we still havent played a minute of the presesaon...Possible season ending injury to one of our best players ever, not picking up team options on korolev, singleton....coach completely doing a 180, and saying he will now consider playing maggette at SG. Mobley volunteering to come off of the bench. Everything i said came true, i had said that it didnt make any sense, and could go down as a terrible move, unless big things happened like injury, trade, dunleavvy completely changing, etc. And thats exactly what has happened so far. 



> Yamaneko, there's a big difference between TOs that come naturally with playing basketball and TOs that are b/c someone is being careless, lazy and stupid with the basketball. Kaman's TOs fall into the 2nd category.


Disagree completely. There is no such thing as consistent, natural turnovers. Turnovers are turnovers. They result in the same thing, and they come from the same thing. How is kaman not seeing someone playing the passing lanes, and throwing it to be intercepted, any different than maggette always mowing someone down in the lane when the guy is just standing there. Or perhaps thornton (was it him) doing the same thing on an inbounds pass. About the only TO that i can see as someone haveing ZERO control over (im not even sure if its counted as aplayer turnover), is when someone shoots and it bounces up and goes over the backboard. Its still results in the same thing, but the player has zero control over that. Another situation might be a jump ball after a tie up...but again, im not sure if that counts as a TO directly to that person. 

Kaman's TO's are no more careless than anyone else on the team. If he was so "careless" then why in the world do the clippers always give him the ball and just stand around somewhere else? Like on that exact play it was obvious kaman was going no where, but where was his team to come to the ball and help him out? When i play ball, if there is someone who is supposdly notorious for turning the ball over, as soon as i see him stop, im running towrad him or to a place where i can get a pass. 

But again, its just the fact that kaman looks and act so goofy why he is singled out all the time. If someone never looked at stats, and just read this board, one would think kaman was one of the most TO prone centers in the entire league. hes not even top 10 last i checked at 2 a game. The way people dramatize it, is like he has a couple of "terrible" "lack of concentration" TO's every game...well if he DIDNT have those 2 TO's, hed have ZERO a game...is that what you expect from him? Zero TO's? Id say a good 30% of his TO's last year were on getting ripped in the post. That is something he could work on, and it seems like he has. But to single him out as careless is crazy. You should single out maggette for all of his TO's that he does for the same things like running over people, mishandling the ball, etc. Or brand who throws it away a lot. Or ANYONE who does a TO that costs us a game. 

TO's are a part of the game, yet at the same time, there really isnt a personal TO that one can say is worse or better than another, unless it determines the game. (cassell and the 8 second violation in the playoffs anyone?) I have no problem with getting on kaman for making a bad pass...but if you do that, get on everyone else who made boneheaded TO's as well.


----------



## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

PAIDNFULL23 said:


> Yamaneko, there's a big difference between TOs that come naturally with playing basketball and TOs that are b/c someone is being careless, lazy and stupid with the basketball. Kaman's TOs fall into the 2nd category.
> 
> Fans can tolerate some TOs that are the result of hustle or from players that always play hard, such as Patterson, Maggette or Thornton, and fans can tolerate some TOs from guards(such as Cassell) b/c they have the ball in their hands alot, which increases the chance of TOs, but fans get tired of TOs that result from being careless with the ball, which Kaman is alot of the times he has the ball, the previously mentioned TO that lead to a Mo Evans dunk being just one of many examples of Kaman's careless TOs, it is a recurring thing with him and people are sick of it.
> 
> How you can keep making excuses for him is beyond me.


Well put!


----------



## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

yamaneko said:


> Disagree completely. There is no such thing as consistent, natural turnovers. Turnovers are turnovers. They result in the same thing, and they come from the same thing. How is kaman not seeing someone playing the passing lanes, and throwing it to be intercepted, any different than maggette always mowing someone down in the lane when the guy is just standing there. Or perhaps thornton (was it him) doing the same thing on an inbounds pass. About the only TO that i can see as someone haveing ZERO control over (im not even sure if its counted as aplayer turnover), is when someone shoots and it bounces up and goes over the backboard. Its still results in the same thing, but the player has zero control over that. Another situation might be a jump ball after a tie up...but again, im not sure if that counts as a TO directly to that person.
> 
> Kaman's TO's are no more careless than anyone else on the team. If he was so "careless" then why in the world do the clippers always give him the ball and just stand around somewhere else? Like on that exact play it was obvious kaman was going no where, but where was his team to come to the ball and help him out? When i play ball, if there is someone who is supposdly notorious for turning the ball over, as soon as i see him stop, im running towrad him or to a place where i can get a pass.
> 
> ...


Just another example of poor knowledge of the game. I like the way you did point out how he gets the ball and has nowhere to go.. that was exactly my point earlier. He calls for the ball when he hasn't established position and then we get to watch as he tries to force his way to the rim and wait for either the "Kaman shuffle" or someone to strip the ball away. And when he's lucky enough not to have either of those happen we get to see him miss a 2ft shot, often times very badly.


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

"Just another example of poor knowledge of the game. " couldnt have said it better myself to you. So anytime you get the ball in the post, you must be able to finish? Half of brands entries into the post he has to kick back out. Does that mean he hasnt established position? No better or worse than kaman, or any other post guy. 

You talk as if kaman is "lucky" when he doesnt turn the ball over ("kaman shuffle (travelling), or someone stripping the ball") when he gets the ball in the post. yet what do the facts say? he gets the ball down low probably 10-15 times a game if not more, counting rebounds, loose balls, etc. yet, he averaged only 1.9 turnovers last year, and im sure you would agree that not ALL of the turnovers were just down low on post moves, travelling, or getting ripped. Perhaps half? So, the facts say that 1 time out of the 10-15 times or more kaman turns the ball over like you said. Yet in your fantasy world, kaman is lucky when it doesnt happen. It doesnt happen more than 90% of the time he has the ball there. i wouldnt call that luck. 

Your other assertion is that all the rest of the times, he misses his shots. Well, even though he had the worst FG% of his career last year, only one player on the team was significanly better FG% than him, and that was elton brand. Usually the front court guys have better FG% than the back court guys, which is why, despite kaman dipping slightly, it was considered such a dissapointment. Funny thing though is, many were extolling kaman's virtues the previous year, but all kaman did basically was miss just under 1 more shot a game this year to get that percentage dip. To get back to 50% he literally, only has to make not even 1 more shot a game this year. Something i think is a good possibility, but only time will tell.


----------



## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

Oh come on! Even with Brand & Livingston injured, Kaman is probably the 5th best player on this team behind Maggette, Sam, Mobley, Thornton. Ross & Knight might be arguably better as well.

And we are a bad bad bad team! The way the game is played today, the PF & Center position are interchangable and Kaman doesn't sniff the top 10 or even top 20 big men in the league.

His post moves are weak, he never gets good position and has yet to figure out how to consistently catch a pass. He'll be completely exposed once Brand isn't there to cover his *** the whole game.


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Kaman for 7 foot centers in the league is top 5-7 in the whole league. 7 foot natural center is almost a must for dunleavvy's offense unless the guy is like a superstar like a gasol or duncan. The reason why he picked rebraca instead of mikki moore. So as far as 7 foot centers go, id take before kaman maybe Curry, Yao of course, shaq, (latter two very injury prone last couple years though), Ilgauskas maybe, but not for 6 years, for our team. 

To say that thornton and mobley are more important or better to this team than kaman is not true. Take either of those guys out of the equation (mobley perhaps more important), and we survive. Cassell last year did nothing for us, lets see how good he will be this year. Maggette better than kaman, well hopefully if dunleavvy uses him well this year, he will be almost twice the player kaman was last year. Ross and knight being as good as kaman is downright laughable. 

Kaman has some of the best post moves among big guys in the league. Does he finish at 60%? absolutely not. But moves alone, he does things that 90% of post guys cant do with their feet, and ambidexterity. At the same time, unlike 90% of big guys he doenst throw it down like he should when he can. Hopefully that changes this year. Kaman frequently gets into good position, and has little problem catching passes. Most of his TO's come from cross court passes, and getting ripped down low. I think he will have a better year this year, without brand being the first option. But its all speculation at this point. Heck, we dont even know the offenes dunleavvy will use nor the starting lineup.

We could go:

Kaman Davis Maggette Mobley Cassell
Kaman Thomas Maggette Ross Cassell
Kaman Thornton Thomas Maggette Cassell

there are TONS of different lineups we can see, all of which will have a big impact on how the guys do. I just hope we dont have different lineups like every game as dunleavvy has done in the past.


----------

