# Roko Leni Ukić in Tau Ceramica!!!



## Boris

This is fresh news.

http://www.sportnet.hr/Stranica_v2.asp?S=vijest&ID=280101


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## bigbabyjesus

:curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: 

ROKO YOU BASTERD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

:curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse:


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## speedythief

Is that what we get for trying to sign Calderon?


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## drlove_playa

Someone translate it.. I have no idea what it means lol. I am hoping that Roko hasn't signed with another team :curse:


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## speedythief

Also I think it is prudent to note that none of the reports about him signing were true before, so there isn't much reason to believe this one is true.

If Roko wants to play in the NBA as badly as Fran Frachillo (sp?) led us to believe on draft night, he wouldn't turn around and sign a contract to stay in Europe for years and years.


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## JL2002

blame it on the new CBA delay.....


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## Matiz

translation:
_Few minutes ago I received a confirmation of a news I had to keep in secret for last few days. But from now on there is no question anymore. Ukic will continue his career in Tau Ceramica. Next week he has to get through medical exams and after he passes it the already signed contract will become valid.

Today 21 years old player reached agreement on all parts of the contract with european vice-champ and spanish league finalist in which he'll (considering the contract) stay untill 2009. His ex-club Split will receive 700.000 € which Tau will pay to Split for terminating the contract with their ex-captain.

Roko had everything settled down with Toronto, which in the main time started to talk with Tau's PG Jose Manuel Calderon. Since Tau will almost certanly be left without their PG, Roko was the best they could get, also "member of croatian NT" picked the best possible option and certanly the least risky one...

Together with great financial part of his contract given to him by one of the wealthiest spanish clubs, Roko will also get to play on european highest level. and after that? NBA as the real prise- when noone will set himself a question: "Is Roko ready for it"?_

i am sorry if translation isn't the best, but i had to translate this from one foreign language to another...


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## SkywalkerAC

Interesting development to say the least. It wouldn't be a bad place for him to develop, we'd just have to worry about his buyout there. Makes me wonder how much we were offering him as there are hugely varied reports. Still, like Speedy said we definitely can't take this to be true and it could be an effective bargaining move on Ukic's part. We should find out soon.


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## ansoncarter

meh

we need star prospects. Not 2nd rounders 10 teams refuse to gamble on


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## Turkish Delight

ansoncarter said:


> meh
> 
> we need star prospects. Not 2nd rounders 10 teams refuse to gamble on


You're right. Maybe Babcock just shouldn't draft 2nd rounders anymore.


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## ansoncarter

Turkish Delight said:


> You're right. Maybe Babcock just shouldn't draft 2nd rounders anymore.


not sure what you mean

(I wasn't criticizing Rob. If your post was retaliatory in some way)


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## Turkish Delight

ansoncarter said:


> not sure what you mean
> 
> (I wasn't criticizing Rob. If your post was retaliatory in some way)


It's called sarcasm.

Then what are you trying to say? How is he supposed to find superstar talent? They don't just fall from the sky.


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## ansoncarter

Turkish Delight said:


> It's called sarcasm.
> 
> Then what are you trying to say? How is he supposed to find superstar talent? They don't just fall from the sky.


with high lotto picks. 

I was just saying Roko probably had the value of a late first rounder all along, so people shouldn't get overly upset about (possibly) losing a marginal prospect

if he was a top-flight prospect, someone picking before us in the 2nd round would have gambled on luring him over


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## Boris

Yes it is sure thing. He will make 2,5 euro for 4 years, but that is not why he decided to go to Spain. It is because it is better for his development.


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## Boris

ansoncarter said:


> with high lotto picks.
> 
> I was just saying Roko probably had the value of a late first rounder all along, so people shouldn't get overly upset about (possibly) losing a marginal prospect
> 
> if he was a top-flight prospect, someone picking before us in the 2nd round would have gambled on luring him over


You never saw Roko and belive me he will be star player possibly all-star, he is better than you think, but not many teams need PG like him because he doesn't fit their stayle of play and teams are very sceptic about PG from europ. Every coach in europ thinks like that, belive me.


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## Turkish Delight

Boris said:


> Yes it is sure thing. He will make 2,5 euro for 4 years, but that is not why he decided to go to Spain. It is because it is better for his development.


Are you sure this source is reliable? I mean this kid was raving about coming into the NBA and playing, but just like that he decides to stay in Europe for 4 years?
I'm not buying it.


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## Crossword

Roko is an idiot.


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## ansoncarter

Boris said:


> You never saw Roko and belive me he will be star player possibly all-star, he is better than you think, but not many teams need PG like him because he doesn't fit their stayle of play and teams are very sceptic about PG from europ. Every coach in europ thinks like that, belive me.


maybe he really is great

but NBA GM's don't seem to think so. Not if he was as close to coming over as it sounds like. Teams won't pass on talent in the 2nd round because of position. Looks like talent issues to me 

I'd regret this more if we'd drafted him 31st. And if Maciej Lampe hadn't gotten the same kind of hype. ANd if I was actually excited about the direction of this team


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## McFurious

say it anit so!!!!

this is a very bad dream

If Ukic goes and we miss Calderon... Babcock should be fired!!

If we do not move anyone from this team before the season starts and sign any decent good young free agents then Babcock has failed to do his job.

P.S he has only made 1 trade as GM 2nd for Mami 2nd(Sow) and 05 2nd.

If he cant sign his draft picks or make roster moves to freee up space then he should be FIRED!!! At least GG was able to make some decent trades in his career.


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## Boris

ansoncarter said:


> maybe he really is great
> 
> but NBA GM's don't seem to think so. Not if he was as close to coming over as it sounds like. Teams won't pass on talent in the 2nd round because of position. Looks like talent issues to me
> 
> I'd regret this more if we'd drafted him 31st. And if Maciej Lampe hadn't gotten the same kind of hype. ANd if I was actually excited about the direction of this team


They think so, it's just they don't need him. I have inside (Croatian scout in one NBA team) and I know what NBA GM 's think about him.

The news about Roko singed was published on Croatian national TV and it is 100% sure thing

Here is your answer why did he choose Tau
http://www.hoopshype.com/interviews/ukic_sierra.htm


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## rapsfan4life

What a ****ing ******* screw you ROKO, DREAM MY *** 
:curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: 
:curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: 
:curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: 
:curse: :curse: ::curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: 
:curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: 
:curse: curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse:curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: : :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse:


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## ansoncarter

you honestly think 10 teams in the Second Round passed on someone because of the position he plays? 

if your scout friend said they were worried he wouldn't come over, thats a valid explanation 

saying they 'don't need a pg' is not. Not if he is anywhere near as good as you have been saying

(just my opinion)


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## Doqtor

Budweiser_Boy said:


> Roko is an idiot.


no he is not. he did the right thing for him, for his development. he had ganantues from Celtics and Raptors he will be picked in 1st round. he wanted to play in NBA but he had to pay his ex club Split 700 000 euros just to let him go. if he was picked in 1st he would have that money. but that did not happened so he was just looking to get money so he could play elsewhere, possibly play some big minutes on high level. so when he finishes whit Tau Ceramica he will be more than ready for NBA.


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## rapsfan4life

YEA I mean come on, nobody wants a player to fill the talented up and coming point guard position in the nba. YES I AM BEING SARCASTIC!!
Get outta here with that crap. When rationalizing this, the only solution that makes sence is that yes, this is a 41st pick. 

Never the less it pisses me off that we continue to get screwed. Where was i? ahh yes :curse: :curse: :curse:


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## Boris

ansoncarter said:


> you honestly think 10 teams in the Second Round passed on someone because of the position he plays?
> 
> if your scout friend said they were worried he wouldn't come over, thats a valid explanation
> 
> saying they 'don't need a pg' is not. Not if he is anywhere near as good as you have been saying
> 
> (just my opinion)


No it is because the way he plays not position. He jus can't play with teams like Houston, Miami, LA...he is creativ PG who needs to have ball in his hands to be efectiv, an that is not posible in every team with players like Kobe or T-Mac. Boston would pick him at 18 but Green sliped to them. A Phonex was interested at him but they drafted player Thomas asked them to draft. Other teams didn't scouted him well and they judge him on opinion that PG from Europ can't play in the NBA, and it was also depthest draft in history with many player with solid potential. Vasquez is just average player with average potential that can fit in every team and thet he is why he was drafted so high, but Roko is unique and talented player that can't fit (he can in Toronto but they are the reason why he choose Tau) in every team.


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## trick

as long as we still have his rights, this move done by roko does not bother me.


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## Crossword

Four years though. FOUR! It's not a one or two year contract, so he could improve then join the team. The ****bag wants to screw us over, period. Man **** him.


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## Crossword

Doqtor said:


> no he is not. he did the right thing for him, for his development. he had ganantues from Celtics and Raptors he will be picked in 1st round. he wanted to play in NBA but he had to pay his ex club Split 700 000 euros just to let him go. if he was picked in 1st he would have that money. but that did not happened so he was just looking to get money so he could play elsewhere, possibly play some big minutes on high level. so when he finishes whit Tau Ceramica he will be more than ready for NBA.


 No man. There are no guaranteed contracts for 2nd rounders, meaning they can be paid whatever. The Raptors would have offered him enough to pay off the buyout.

And how is going to Europe the best thing for anyone? There's more money in the NBA, so it's not about the money. He would have gotten playing time in Toronto there's no QUESTION about that, so that's not valid either. And if you want to improve... honestly is there a better place than the NBA to learn from?

Ukic = idiot.


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## speedythief

a) He could be using this as leverage to get more money from Babcock;
b) Just because it's a four year contract doesn't mean we can't still buy him out when he wants to come over;
c) Let's hear what Babcock has to say about it--maybe we want Roko to stay in Europe for another year.


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## seifer0406

even the euros refuse to come to Toronto, this sucks.


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## charlz

seifer0406 said:


> even the euros refuse to come to Toronto, this sucks.


well that is hardly the case .... any how I think I better start my 

"Omar cook is welcomed to Toronto with open arms" thread.


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## PureStreetzH2O

http://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/article.jsp?content=20050724_170419_3200 

sportsnet take it for whats it worth


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## ansoncarter

how long to we keep his nba rights?J


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## MangoMangoMango

is it official yet???if not..I dont think we should believe this....

there were many reports b4 that said roko has signed with toronto...


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## bigbabyjesus

**** Roko!


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## ATLien

I hate to say I told you so, but I did. There is a reason why guy goes from late lotto to mid 2nd rounder. It's because the other 30+ NBA GM's saw this a mile away, and Babcock lived up to his reputation as one of the NBA's worst.


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## madman

TheATLien said:


> I hate to say I told you so, but I did. There is a reason why guy goes from late lotto to mid 2nd rounder. It's because the other 30+ NBA GM's saw this a mile away, and Babcock lived up to his reputation as one of the NBA's worst.


 i dont see how its Babcocks fault that the player gets jealous because we are looking to get another PG


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## adhir1

like i said in the other thread...the raptors could just be giving Tau Ukic as a temporary replacement for Calderon..and let him develop a little bit more..and then we can buy out his contract...and bring him over here...


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## trick

TheATLien said:


> I hate to say I told you so, but I did. There is a reason why guy goes from late lotto to mid 2nd rounder. It's because the other 30+ NBA GM's saw this a mile away, and Babcock lived up to his reputation as one of the NBA's worst.


don't try and pile this onto babcock as another one of his 'mistakes' that you could use to fuel your hatred for him. the raptors are strapped for cash, and we need whatever cash we can spend on current fa's such as bonner, sow and calderon. in a couple of years the raptors would then have the necessary funds to buyout ukic's current contract with tau...at least that's how i look at it. we still have his rights and his ideal choice was to stay in europe for a couple of years to develop his game.

heck, the almighty spurs management are currently having a hard time bringing scola over from europe.


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## trick

Boris said:


> Here is your answer why did he choose Tau
> http://www.hoopshype.com/interviews/ukic_sierra.htm


some of you should read the last two questions/answers from this link.


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## Turkish Delight

trick said:


> some of you should read the last two questions/answers from this link.


So why the heck did he declare?
He should have gotten a better agent, and maybe he would of actually got into the 1st round.


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## ansoncarter

trick said:


> some of you should read the last two questions/answers from this link.


good point, but that article is still from April

he's said a lot of things since then (including a proclomation that his preference is to come to Toronto. I think he his exact words were "I expect to be here in October". Might have been hogwash though)

(the last question was about his father playing in a rock band lol)


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## maka2506

http://www.24sec.net/news.asp


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## Rhubarb

TheATLien said:


> I hate to say I told you so, but I did. There is a reason why guy goes from late lotto to mid 2nd rounder. It's because the other 30+ NBA GM's saw this a mile away, and Babcock lived up to his reputation as one of the NBA's worst.


Cheap shot.

Makes you wonder if, had Babcock passed on him, whether you and the other numerous Babcock haters would be singing that same tune. Something tells me you'd be on his back for _not_ picking Roko.


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## lucky777s

This could all just be negotiating tactics by Roko

BUT

If he doesn't come here this year he may NEVER come over. The Knicks drafted a young PG a few years ago, Vucic?, who they expected to come over. He never did, even after his rights were traded to PHX in the Marbury trade.

And that would make this draft look far worse for Babs. Roko was the steal, the wildcard with huge potential. Now we don't have him. No Green, no Bynum, and now no Roko.

There were lots of good picks available at 41. If we get nothing from it......

If the Raps were seriously looking at Roko with the 16 pick they should just pay him first round money. Why be cheap and piss off the player? Babs knew the kid had options in Europe. You can't play hardball with him.


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## Thievery Corporation

**** like this makes it hard for me to be optimistic about the Raps and their draft.


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## Rhubarb

lucky777s said:


> The Knicks drafted a young PG a few years ago, Vucic?, who they expected to come over. He never did, even after his rights were traded to PHX in the Marbury trade.


Milos Vujanic.



lucky777s said:


> If the Raps were seriously looking at Roko with the 16 pick they should just pay him first round money. Why be cheap and piss off the player? Babs knew the kid had options in Europe. You can't play hardball with him.


But at the same time Babcock has to be reasonable. If he gave in to every player and gave them the contracts to make them happy, we'd be screwed in a big way.

Sometimes, players have to realise where they stand and know their place. The trend of guys who think they are bigger than the club is disturbing, even if it is reality. I respect Roko if he's trying to milk this contract thing for all its worth, but there's also a line he shouldn't be crossing. I mean, seriously; he's a rookie for what it's worth. He's been given a chance to play in a league alot of other kids would die to play in. That should be good enough in alot of ways.


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## Benis007

Its really too bad that it looks like we wasted a pick with Ukic. 

You can't really blame the guy though, I point the finger at all the rumours involving PGs off the bench in Toronto in the coming season. 

The guy deserves minutes.... as Snoop Dogg once put it..

"You gotta get yours, I gotta get mine"

siin


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## Porn Player

i honestly want 2 cry  

am with bud and vigilante what an *** no really way to piss of raptors fans that wudda loved this dude ****in jerk face god damn


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## The Mad Viking

Lets calm down.

1. Croatian media especially, and Euro media in general, love to print stuff like this, and hate that their best players get stolen away by the NBA. At least they hate it until they become big stars.

2. Even if it does happen, so what. Roko was not going to lead the Raps to the NBA title this year.

3. This could be the best thing for Roko and the best thing for the Raptors. Why pay him millions of dollars to mostly sit and learn, except when he's on the court making mistakes and learning - when someone else will pay to teach him for you.

4. Be assured, Roko wants to play in the NBA. Who knows what the buyout provisions are, in the Tau contract. He could be here in the fall of 2006.

Finally, how dare you blame Roko for signing a contract with the team that gives him the best deal. Like you would do any different?


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## Porn Player

> Finally, how dare you blame Roko for signing a contract with the team that gives him the best deal



umm ok i wud play in the nba for nothing even if the top euro teams offer me millions them leagues aint nothing on nba. and am sure most people would agree.


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## Unknownone

Hmmm...

My initial reaction was one of disgust - but that's visceral in content as opposed to any casual reflection/analysis...

It would seem that I've gotten a little ahead of myself as well - actin' as if Ukic's presence would take the Raptors into the promised land - I expect the upcomin' season to be more full of downs than ups - so...

Yes, it would've been nice to have Ukic here and develop his NBA game - as it stands, the Raptors do hold onto his rights so if he arrives this year, next, or at the close of the 4 years (and potentially never given that there are nothin's ever a sure shot ABSOLUTELY)...

Ukic isn't or won't be the savior for this team - he's maybe (and hopefully in the future) an integral piece, but a cog into a wider schema - even w/ a burgeonin' all-star in Bosh, the squad needs to grow (through some extremely painful losses this season, methinks) to become a full-fledged contender somewhere 2 to 3 years down the road...

If Calderon gets over here and we find a means to insert a veteran point guard from elsewhere, then this is what we'll have to field for now...

Is it a setback? Yes... Is it cataclysmic? No... Once Thursday rolls around, better to focus on who's gonna be there come October versus who's not...

And I'm not bein' a Babcock apologist - just tryin' to put everythin' in perspective...


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## The Mad Viking

skip_dawg! said:


> umm ok i wud play in the nba for nothing even if the top euro teams offer me millions them leagues aint nothing on nba. and am sure most people would agree.


I could understand you feel that way.

But how long before you ask yourself

"Why isn't my team paying me? They are dissing me. All the other guys are getting huge dough, and I can't even afford to eat at the same restaurants as them. My car cost less than the insurance on theirs."

Personally, I'm pretty sure you figure this out before you even sign.

If the NBA is the top league, they need to pay the top $.

OT: I'd laugh if Sidney Crosby ended up playing for Switzerland...


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## Flush

1st post...bla bla

Many of you are bashing Babcock for this, which has yet to be proven as fact.

However I am unclear as to what the raps FO did wrong.

Should he have not draft roko at all?

Draft him at 16 instead of JG?

Paid roko the 6-7 million it would require to outbid Tau? (the same contract players draft in the top 10 are recieving)

It is ok to not like Babcock and some of his decisions since taking over the raptors, but I do not understand how any of this is his fault.


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## Turkish Delight

Flush said:


> 1st post...bla bla
> 
> Many of you are bashing Babcock for this, which has yet to be proven as fact.
> 
> However I am unclear as to what the raps FO did wrong.
> 
> Should he have not draft roko at all?
> 
> Draft him at 16 instead of JG?
> 
> Paid roko the 6-7 million it would require to outbid Tau? (the same contract players draft in the top 10 are recieving)
> 
> It is ok to not like Babcock and some of his decisions since taking over the raptors, but I do not understand how any of this is his fault.



Welcome to the site!
And I agree with you, as usual people are quick to point the finger at Babcock, when this really isn't his fault. On top of that, none of these reports are official, so we just have to wait and see how things progress.


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## maka2506

You will cry because Roko; but after one year in Europe (where he is king) and after Toronto next year in the draft pick one good center ---- Toronto in season 2005/06 will be one of TOP NBA clubs... 

For sure...

:banana: 

btw. Calderon is nothing in comparasion with Roko; Roko is born star (for 1st pick not for 41), player with champion feeling, you will see that already on the EC in Belgrade in 9. month where he will play for Croatia NT (together with Giriček-Utah, Planinić-NYNets, Vujčić-the best center in Europe, Kasun-Orlando and M. Tomas-remember this name, he plays in Real Madrid and he will be one of five top picks in the next DRAFT...) Roko is yours - SOONER OR LATER!! 

:clap:


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## lucky777s

Its called preparation.

If you are considering drafting a Euro player under contract you should certainly have a very strong idea about what it would take to get him here. You don't just draft him and hope for the best.  You go over all the scenarios with his agent.

And when you KNOW the guy has interet from other Euro clubs, who can also pay the full buyout, then you know you have to pay a certain level of salary. To draft him and then make him a lowball offer compared to his other options seems ridiculous. 

He will have a huge adjustment to make to NBA competiton. Better to start that now, and not in 2-4 years, if ever.

Maybe we find out Thursday that Roko is coming to the Raps after all, who knows, but if he is not then that is certainly a failure by our front office. Not a fatal mistake that will cripple the franchise or anything, but still a failure for a club that can't afford another failure. The pressure on CharlieV and Babs just went up a whole lot if Roko is not here.


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## butr

Bottom line is that as a 2nd, the raps have the flexibility to structure a deal so that Roko could still get 1st rnd money and pay for any buyout.

The Raps tried to be cheap it appears.


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## Flush

lucky777s said:


> Its called preparation.
> 
> If you are considering drafting a Euro player under contract you should certainly have a very strong idea about what it would take to get him here. You don't just draft him and hope for the best. You go over all the scenarios with his agent.
> 
> And when you KNOW the guy has interet from other Euro clubs, who can also pay the full buyout, then you know you have to pay a certain level of salary. To draft him and then make him a lowball offer compared to his other options seems ridiculous.


Perhaps preperation led to him not being drafted at 16, perhaps the front office decided he was worth the risk at 41. Even if it meant having to wait a year or two. Perhaps much of the post draft propaganda was an effort to convince roko to stay over here, but ultimately they were prepared to let him go back overseas.



> Maybe we find out Thursday that Roko is coming to the Raps after all, who knows, but if he is not then that is certainly a failure by our front office. Not a fatal mistake that will cripple the franchise or anything, but still a failure for a club that can't afford another failure. The pressure on CharlieV and Babs just went up a whole lot if Roko is not here.


I don't think anyone is calling the Bonner choice a failure. In reality Roko would have been a Backup to us this year. Every team in the league does not pass up a starting PG because it would cost 2-3 million. 

Not having roko on this team will not loose us the championship. I don't hear the Pistons saying "only if we had a better back up PG". Letting a potential starting PG develop his game on of the best teams in eurpoe until he is 22-23 years old is hardly an unafordable failure.



blowuptheraptors said:


> Bottom line is that as a 2nd, the raps have the flexibility to structure a deal so that Roko could still get 1st rnd money and pay for any buyout.
> 
> The Raps tried to be cheap it appears.


It would have required Bab's to pay 2-3 million a year to have him stay. Approx the same cash CV is making and more that JG. People on this board would be up in arms if we had shelled out that kind of money


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## bigbabyjesus

lucky777s said:


> Its called preparation.
> 
> If you are considering drafting a Euro player under contract you should certainly have a very strong idea about what it would take to get him here. You don't just draft him and hope for the best. You go over all the scenarios with his agent.


Babs said it yesterday. He expected Roko to stay over in Europe for another year or two to develop. He said it from day one that this was a distinct possibility. 



> And when you KNOW the guy has interet from other Euro clubs, who can also pay the full buyout, then you know you have to pay a certain level of salary. To draft him and then make him a lowball offer compared to his other options seems ridiculous.


According to reports (just as legit as these ones), the Raptors offered him 1.7 million for three seasons, but Ukic did not accept it. Then they offered him 2.5 million for three seasons, and guaranteed him 15-20 minutes a game behind Rafer Alston. We then thought that that was the deal, but apparently not. We know the numbers are around 2.5 million for three seasons along with guaranteed playing time. Doesn't seem like lowballing to me, especially for a guy "that would swim across the atlantic ocean to play in the nba."



> He will have a huge adjustment to make to NBA competiton. Better to start that now, and not in 2-4 years, if ever.


I agree. But Roko did say numerous times before the draft that he would like to develop his game in Europe for a couple of years. Makes sense if your going to a good team, but he was coming to a team that had guaranteed him playing time. Not to mention TAU is one of the best teams in Europe and won't get that much more court time than he would here.



> Maybe we find out Thursday that Roko is coming to the Raps after all, who knows, but if he is not then that is certainly a failure by our front office. Not a fatal mistake that will cripple the franchise or anything, but still a failure for a club that can't afford another failure. The pressure on CharlieV and Babs just went up a whole lot if Roko is not here.


I still don't see how it is a failure by our front office. I blame it mostly on the delay of the CBA. But I wouldn't even call it a failure.. because chances are he will be here in 1-2 years, if his claims are true.


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## maka2506

UKIC STAYS IN EUROPE!!!

:cheers:


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## trick

the way i see it, roko did what was best for him. he's looking to see how he can become a better basketball player all the while getting the best pay for it as well. it's not a stab at babcock for 'false promises' or a stab at toronto and its 'lack of FA opportunities' reputation.

i think roko could've been had if babcock dished out a 3.5-4.5 mil contract...but that would be asking too much imo.

again, as long as we still hold on to his rights, roko is not lost to us forever.


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## ATLien

skip_dawg! said:


> umm ok i wud play in the nba for nothing even if the top euro teams offer me millions them leagues aint nothing on nba. and am sure most people would agree.


LOL, I would take the millions & live in Europe.


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## trick

skip_dawg! said:


> umm ok i wud play in the nba for nothing even if the top euro teams offer me millions them leagues aint nothing on nba. and am sure most people would agree.


i don't agree.


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## speedythief

trick said:


> i don't agree.


I do. You could get sponsorships/endorsements to pay your expenses. In the meantime you're in the NBA.


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## arenas809

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Did I call this or what?




arenas809 said:


> [Calderon]Going to Toronto makes sense, they must know they're not gona get Ukic over here.
> 
> Contrary to reports, there hasn't been a signing yet, and I don't see Calderon going to Toronto or anywhere else to be the 3rd PG.





arenas809 said:


> Believe what you want to believe...
> 
> Ronny Turiaf, C.J. Miles, Dijon Thompson, Lawerence Roberts (fellow 2nd round picks) , and a host of 1st round picks have already been announced officially as being signed, but Babcock can't announce he's signed Ukic?
> 
> What sense does that make to you?
> 
> Calderon is a starter on of the best teams in the ACB League and he comes to a NBA team like the Raptors to be the 3rd point guard?
> 
> I stopped playing connect the dots games a long time ago, you figure this one out for yourself.





arenas809 said:


> This kid is the next Milos Vujanic.
> 
> Good job Raps.



Save yourself the time and don't challenge me.


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## Crossword

I gotta give it to you arenas, you definitely called this.

Actually the first thing I thought of when I heard the news was... "Damn, arenas was right." hahaha


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## speedythief

Yeah, kudos.

And it looks like the odds of us getting Calderon have gone way up. He's already been replaced on his team.


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## ATLien

speedythief said:


> I do. You could get sponsorships/endorsements to pay your expenses. In the meantime you're in the NBA.


LOL, you only get endorsements in the NBA if you are good or have hype/potential. You would play for free just to be in the NBA? LOL, that is stupid. How are you going to afford to eat and rent if you aren't getting paid? You would be the only NBA baller working a part time job. I know I am taking this hypothetical, rhetorical question to the extreme, but I just wanted to point out how ridiculous what you are saying would be in reality. Give me the millions. Europe ain't all bad.


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## speedythief

TheATLien said:


> LOL, you only get endorsements in the NBA if you are good or have hype/potential. You would play for free just to be in the NBA? LOL, that is stupid. How are you going to afford to eat and rent if you aren't getting paid? You would be the only NBA baller working a part time job. I know I am taking this hypothetical, rhetorical question to the extreme, but I just wanted to point out how ridiculous what you are saying would be in reality. Give me the millions. Europe ain't all bad.


Players don't pay for food and travel and lodging and such on the road, the team covers those expenses, so you have that covered. You also don't pay for equipment and could take the bus to work like Red Rocket.

You could be a complete sellout and accept money from any little store or business in order to pay your expenses at home. Selling autographs and attending private parties and such during the offseason to make money on the side would also help. You could also auction off any number of things to raise funds for yourself. You could pay your way through eBay.

I don't think it's as ridiculous as the option to play for no money is in the first place, considering that the NBA Players Union wouldn't allow you to play for nothing, anyways. But it could be done, all things considered.

NBA>Europe if you only have one choice, which was my understanding with this question.


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## SkywalkerAC

But he's going to be the starter and that should be very exciting from his viewpoint and from a Raptor viewpoint IMO. I probably won't get to see any Raps games next season so it hurts me a little less but this is a great development opportunity and delaying his contract until he's more NBA ready is probably a good thing (though it will probably cost us a couple more dollars). 

And maybe I'll even go watch him play this year...


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## Skooled

ansoncarter said:


> with high lotto picks.
> 
> I was just saying Roko probably had the value of a late first rounder all along, so people shouldn't get overly upset about (possibly) losing a marginal prospect
> 
> if he was a top-flight prospect, someone picking before us in the 2nd round would have gambled on luring him over



Wow horrible post..what do you think 2nd rounders are for? A way to fill up rosters with (young) useless prospects. Every year has had atleast a medicore player drafted in the second round.


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## SkywalkerAC

I would say that Babcock is quite alright with Ukic signing with Tau. In fact, it looks like Babs may have actually orchestrated it. 

1) Babs's offer wouldn't pay for the buyout for the majority of Ukic's first two years in Toronto.

2) Babs goes after the starting point guard of the team most interested in Roko: a team that will be able to pay his buyout right off the bat and quite a lot on top of that. This move, if it goes through, basically ensures that Ukic would go there, as Tau's need for him is greatly increased and Ukic foresees even less minutes with the Raps, and much more importantly, that he will have the starting point guard job.

I'm sure Babs did want him this year at a bargain price but it looks like he's being very patient once again. Let's hope it pays off.


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## ansoncarter

HEY!

horrible? lol. Someone asked where we're supposed to find "superstar" talent. Lotto is a fine answer imo.

if all the second round generally produces is "at least one mediocre player" is that where you would start the search?


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## ansoncarter

SkywalkerAC said:


> I would say that Babcock is quite alright with Ukic signing with Tau. In fact, it looks like Babs may have actually orchestrated it.
> 
> 1) Babs's offer wouldn't pay for the buyout for the majority of Ukic's first two years in Toronto.
> 
> 2) Babs goes after the starting point guard of the team most interested in Roko: a team that will be able to pay his buyout right off the bat and quite a lot on top of that. This move, if it goes through, basically ensures that Ukic would go there, as Tau's need for him is greatly increased and Ukic foresees even less minutes with the Raps, and much more importantly, that he will have the starting point guard job.
> 
> I'm sure Babs did want him this year at a bargain price but it looks like he's being very patient once again. Let's hope it pays off.



good points

personally, I would have overpaid just to be done with it. Not like a couple mil per is going to kill us. The pr value alone would have been worth it. Give the fans something to get happy about, and feel like we got a steal. 

Now theres going to be another black cloud hanging over us all year, especially if the media drags this out


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## SkywalkerAC

ansoncarter said:


> good points
> 
> personally, I would have overpaid just to be done with it. Not like a couple mil per is going to kill us. The pr value alone would have been worth it. Give the fans something to get happy about, and feel like we got a steal.
> 
> Now theres going to be another black cloud hanging over us all year, especially if the media drags this out


Not if Ukic's standins play decently well. And I've got a pretty good feeling about the Spaniard. 

The thing is that the max we can sign Ukic for is the MLE. That means that as good as he gets over the next couple years, when he wants to come to the NBA we get him for a very reasonable contract. On the other hand, if we signed him for a significant portion of the MLE this summer, he'd be demanding a lot more after his first contract was up and could be offered more than we match. I'm not exactly sure how the CBA has changed here (the Arenas clause or whatever) but I know that bringing in Ukic after two years of starting/developing in Tau and signing him to a long-term MLE deal doesn't sound too bad.


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## Skooled

ansoncarter said:


> HEY!
> 
> horrible? lol. Someone asked where we're supposed to find "superstar" talent. Lotto is a fine answer imo.
> 
> if all the second round generally produces is "at least one mediocre player" is that where you would start the search?


 I specificly said (atleast a medicore player) you refraised my sentence adding in atleast (one) medicore player. Usually 3-4 medicore players get drafted in the secound round each year. Look at Michael Redd, 12 teams passed on him in the secound round. Ya, just cause 12 teams passed on him in the secound round it means hes gonna be a bust.(great point anson)

W/e this is just gonna lead to no where. Just wanted to state my point


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## -James-

I disagree with guys bashing Roko. He made a decision for him. I mean, he got slapped in the face. Twice. He doesn't get picked in the first round, then while we're negotiating with him, we're also negotiating with a guy who would occupy the same job Roko was trying to get. I mean, even if we did tell him he'd get 15-20 minutes a game now, who's to say it would be the same way come training camp. He's getting more money in Spain. 

Also, as has already been mentioned, he did this for development and can be bought out whenever. I mean, what if he just signed a two year contract and suffered a major injury in year two? Would we have still paid him to come over the next year? Hell no. Would Tau give him another deal for the kind of money he got in the initial deal? No. Now that he's supposedly signed this contract, what happens if he gets hurt this year or if he struggles and shows he's all hype/potential (ala Jonathan Bender)? At least he's got his money for four years, right? And it's not like his not coming has completely destroyed our point guard situation. Skip, Omar, Calderon and hopefully Alvin could hold down the point for a year we're not supposed to win in anyways. People are blowing this out of proportion. Maybe Roko needed to develop and just signed the deal for Roko.


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## Mr. Hobbes

Wait a minute- he got drafted but he decides to play for another team? _You can DO that?_


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## speedythief

I don't think Roko deserves to be bashed. He said before he was drafted that he still wanted to play in Euroleague to continue to improve his game. I think maybe we're all a little more impatient than we'd like to admit at times.

That being said, Rob, you'd better do something this offseason, cause right now the bare-minimum just isn't cutting it.


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## Matiz

WTChan said:


> Wait a minute- he got drafted but he decides to play for another team? _You can DO that?_


getting drafted only applies for NBA...


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## maka2506

Tau Ceramica web page about ROKO:

Overflowing talent, dangerous penetrador, juggler with the ball or its excellent vision of game are some of the characteristics that they attribute to him who better know him. Ukic, in addition, is a perfeccionista. A great worker.

:banana:


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## ansoncarter

they also could have said

-serious questions about belief in himself
-seeing Ben Gordon in action may have scared him all the way back to Europe
-possibly suffers from big-fish-in-little-pond-itis


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## Junkyard Dog13

crap now what whose our future PG of the future now?


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## SkywalkerAC

Junkyard Dog13 said:


> crap now what whose our future PG of the future now?


I think that's pretty obvious- Roko is. He's definitely not our point guard of the present anyway.


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## Boris

ansoncarter said:


> they also could have said
> 
> -serious questions about belief in himself
> -seeing Ben Gordon in action may have scared him all the way back to Europe
> -possibly suffers from big-fish-in-little-pond-itis


That is not question. Roko is player that belief in himself. Player that doesn't belive in himself can't make game wining shots. You could saw one in draft video clip that was posted before in forum. It was game wining shot that won the game in Croatian cup final in the last second. Player that doesn't belive in himself can't make that. Roko is smart guy he won't make stupid move like Darko Milicic did and sit on the bench.


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## bigbabyjesus

Boris said:


> Roko is smart guy he won't make stupid move like Darko Milicic did and sit on the bench.


See thats the thing that I don't think you get. He would have gotten playing time over here, there was no doubt about that. There were reports that we had given him guaranteed playing time; 15-20 minutes behind Rafer Alston. 

I just don't get why he would go over to Europe to develop his skills, when he could develop them here; which would be better for his game in the end.


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## ansoncarter

another thing, "juggler with the ball" ???

thats called travelling. And theres only one ball so how are you gonna juggle one ball?


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## Crossword

vigilante said:


> I just don't get why he would go over to Europe to develop his skills, when he could develop them here; which would be better for his game in the end.


Exactly.


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## piri

Budweiser_Boy said:


> No man. There are no guaranteed contracts for 2nd rounders, meaning they can be paid whatever. The Raptors would have offered him enough to pay off the buyout.
> 
> And how is going to Europe the best thing for anyone? There's more money in the NBA, so it's not about the money. He would have gotten playing time in Toronto there's no QUESTION about that, so that's not valid either. And if you want to improve... honestly is there a better place than the NBA to learn from?
> 
> Ukic = idiot.


So if Totronto could pay him what toronto wants, and he didn't offered him what he wants, he shouldo go to another team that values him in what he deserves. 

2,5 Million euros is more or less 3 million $. Is anybody in NBA going to pay for the 41st pick in the las draft 12 million $ in a 4 year contract? I don't think so.
So perhaps it IS for the money.

Unless you haven't seen any basketball except the nba one, the starting position in the finalist of the euro league and the spanish league in the last year is a very valuable position. Much more than a starting position on a perennial lotto team in the NBA.

Someone who said that there is no place like nba to develop a player, when places like croatia, spain, turkey, argentina, serbia are doing so well in the olimpics, and world championships, need at the minimum to stop considering the USA as the center of the planet, or began to think that perhaps another countries exist beyond USA borders.


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## Zalgirinis

vigilante said:


> I just don't get why he would go over to Europe to develop his skills, when he could develop them here; which would be better for his game in the end.





Budweiser_Boy said:


> Exactly.


Thats a bit ignorant from your side. Im not saying in any way that NBA=Euroleague, but how many games of Tau Vitoria have you seen to state that players dont develope there. Its 2nd best club level league after all and Tau would beat last year Hawks 7 times of 10.


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## Divine Spammer

Yeah, you're right. 
Posters here don't understand a number of important points-

1.) A player in a Euroleague team playes less games. 
The physical demands from a player there are significantly lower, so his exposure to injuries is lesser. 

2.) In Tau, Roko can gain more experience than he would have gained in TO.
It's better to play 35 minutes in 50 games than 20 minutes in 80 games. 

3.) Euroleague standards aren't as low as you think. 
There are a lot of NBA-level players there. It's not the NBA, but it's not so far eighter.


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## lucky777s

I think some of our Euro posters are getting a little too defensive.

The Raptors play in the NBA. They want to develop a PG that can be a high quality NBA starter.

The NBA is not pure basketball. Its a different game than is played in Europe. It would be better for Roko's NBA development to be here. Maybe not better for his pure basketball development. You can't simulate the athletes he will be facing in the NBA over in Europe. Nor the systems he will be asked to run and defend in the NBA.

There is also he the huge cultural adjustment to make. The language, the food, the music, the travel, the media, the lifestyle in general will all require some time to adjust to.

It seems obvious that he would be better served by learning the NBA game and lifestyle as soon as possible. That' not a knock on Euro clubs that teach skills extremely well.


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## Divine Spammer

You're right, but I think a year or two in Tau will serve him well. 
He'll develop his skills in a better way, and he'll be working at the weightroom to prepare himself to the NBA. 

So he'll need a year to make adjustments, but he'll be a better player generaly.


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## Mr. Hobbes

He'll be on the Raptors in 4 years, after his contract is up, right?


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## speedythief

WTChan said:


> He'll be on the Raptors in 4 years, after his contract is up, right?


Or when he decides he wants to come to the NBA and we negotiate a buy-out. He can come over any time he wants to as long as we can afford to bring him over. We don't have to wait for his contract to expire.


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## SkywalkerAC

WTChan said:


> He'll be on the Raptors in 4 years, after his contract is up, right?


More than likely in two or three.


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## -James-

ansoncarter said:


> another thing, "juggler with the ball" ???
> 
> thats called travelling. And theres only one ball so how are you gonna juggle one ball?


 I know this is seriously off topic but I don't think I've read anyone say this yet but this guy is great. He makes me laugh all the time. You have my HOF vote next year. "'juggler with the ball'??? that's called travelling". :laugh: wow.

A bit more on topic now, over/under, Roko will be in a Raptors uni in 3 years? I've got under (2).


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## Biggestfanoftheknicks

I feel this is a big mistake. While I can't fault Roko for taking the money ( much like Vujanic did to us) I can say that his development will not be nearly as great as some people have touted. In the Euro League he will continue to refine himself as an NBA player.

This does not make him more NBA ready though, and I think that misconception is something that needs to be noted. Roko is weak, physically, and very talented. I can't think of any player drafted that would benefit more from the top level conditioning programs the NBA provides ( as the ones in europe are really quite second rate) that also has the potential to shine greater. 

For all his physical weakness, Roko is actually quite talented. In my opinion he needs to hit the gym, for many months, with a nutrionist, all the while learning the NBA game which is faster and more physical. That type of introduction to the NBA style of play is crucial for young players as it starts their development on a new path and acclaimates their skill set to what is most useful in the league.

It is to bad that this happened. It does however make me feel better about our playoff chances. Now if the sixers can just lose Korver and Fran stays in Spain along with Christie leaving...


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## Biggestfanoftheknicks

Biggestfanoftheknicks said:


> It is to bad that this happened. It does however make me feel better about our playoff chances. Now if the sixers can just lose Korver and Fran stays in Spain along with Christie leaving...


Man.. should I play the lottery??


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## trick

Biggestfanoftheknicks said:


> Man.. should I play the lottery??


no, korver was resigned


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## madman

Divine Spammer said:


> 2.) In Tau, Roko can gain more experience than he would have gained in TO.
> It's better to play 35 minutes in 50 games than 20 minutes in 80 games.


that is right but i would much have him play less mins here learn the system while practicing with his teammates


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## Boris

Kao što je već poznato, Roko Ukić će od sljedeće sezone nastupati u dresu španjolske Tau Ceramice. Kako sada stvari stoje, Toronto Raptorsi i svjetla NBA pozornice pričekat će još najmanje dvije godine. Naime, u španjolskim medijima procurila je jedna zanimljiva pojedinost iz Ukićevog ugovora s "keramičarima", a ona glasi da Splićanin može napustiti klub bez odštete poslije sezone 2006/07. Klauzula se, naravno, odnosi samo na odlazak u jedinu kanadsku NBA franšizu.

After 2 years with Tau Roko can singh with Toronto with out no buyout


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## SkywalkerAC

Boris said:


> Kao što je već poznato, Roko Ukić će od sljedeće sezone nastupati u dresu španjolske Tau Ceramice. Kako sada stvari stoje, Toronto Raptorsi i svjetla NBA pozornice pričekat će još najmanje dvije godine. Naime, u španjolskim medijima procurila je jedna zanimljiva pojedinost iz Ukićevog ugovora s "keramičarima", a ona glasi da Splićanin može napustiti klub bez odštete poslije sezone 2006/07. Klauzula se, naravno, odnosi samo na odlazak u jedinu kanadsku NBA franšizu.
> 
> After 2 years with Tau Roko can singh with Toronto with out no buyout



For real? Nice work Ukic if that's true. Show's a real desire to prepare for and then join the Raps. Wonder if Vasquez has anything similar...

I think Ukic got 3 points, 3 rebounds, and 3 assists in his last game, along with some decent D.

Couldn't find the thread I recently started on Ukic's season with Tau, if someone could bump it- would be nice.


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## JS03

After all is said and done.
It can't get any worse for the Raptors -- can it?


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## SkywalkerAC

Juzt_SicK03 said:


> After all is said and done.
> It can't get any worse for the Raptors -- can it?



huh?


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## CHRISBOSH4

Juzt_SicK03 said:


> After all is said and done.
> It can't get any worse for the Raptors -- can it?


Yes it can. Trust me.


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