# An informal poll: Draft choices if you were GM.



## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

I want to establish some positions today. I am not looking to argue about players and their fit with this team. That is being done plenty in the official draft thread. 

I know this is tough since we are early on in the process. However, I would like to see how things mature - pre-tourney, post-tourney, post-workouts. In other words I invite you to give your thoughts now, so we can return with hindsight later on.

Assume the Raps have their pick 7th to 10th and Philly' pick 10th to 14th.

Pick the players that you would pick for this team regardless of whether or not they come out as underclassmen (Wishful thinking allowed). Be realistic though, no Bogut and Marvin talk required at 8 and 12. 

If you need help being realistic, www.nbadraft.net and www.draftcity.com can aid you.

If you like someone outside, or further down these or other mocks, please put them in the existing slots anyway. You may have strong feelings that do not match those of the authored the mocks. (Hindsight may prove you a genius).

I have already stated my choices, Shelden first and JJ (GT) second. 

There are no wrong responses right now.


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

I have always supported the choices of Deron Williams with our pick and CHarlie Vilanueva with Philly's pick. If we miss out on one of the two I'd still be very happy with Hakim Warrick or Raymond Felton though.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

As time goes on I think our biggest weaknesses last year are our biggest weaknesses this year. We need a distributor and a rebounder, still. The package of Jack and S. Williams is a good one.

Plus we have our second-rounders this year, too. Could be a sleeper or something waiting for us deeper into the Draft.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Either Deron Williams or Jarret Jack and either Shelden Williams, Villenueva, or Warrick. I dunno if Julius Hodge is gonna be available in the second round, it's way too early to project that (heck it's too early to project first rounders too), but if he's there then I'd take him. If not, then I'd take a serious look at Muhammad.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

EDIT: double post


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## rapsfan4life (Apr 10, 2004)

JACK AND SHELDEN IS PARADISE :banana:


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## adhir1 (Dec 28, 2004)

im torn between Deron Williams and Raymond Felton with our pick....and then Villanueva and Hakim Warrick....


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

as of the moment, i'd take jack and villaneuva/shelden...

2nd rounders, i'd hope for francisco garcia...the guy has great character...sorta reminds me alot of Jalen (in terms of character)...


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

Hakim Warrick is foolish. 

junior naboa is the expert except for when scouts take over. When they do. Warrick dunks. (on heads)


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

NeoSamurai said:


> as of the moment, i'd take jack and villaneuva/shelden...
> 
> 2nd rounders, i'd hope for francisco garcia...the guy has great character...sorta reminds me alot of Jalen (in terms of character)...


 I think Garcia (and I'm also worried Hodge) will slip into the first round. Ala Tony Allen and Delonte West. And Dahntay Jones.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

I'll go with Hakim Warrick and Guillermo Diaz. No, they might not take us to the playoffs next year but they load us with athleticism and potential.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

our pick PG Deron Williams
Philly pick SF Joey Graham 
2nd rnd trade aaron williams + 07 2nd rnd pick
to hawks for pick 31 draft SG Salim Stodamire


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## GuelphRaptorsFan (Apr 9, 2003)

The biggest flaw the Raps have, and I defy anyone to argue this, is their defense. So I want guys who can play defense. So, assuming he's available, I'd take Jarrett Jack. The other choice *has* to be a good interior defender, I'm hazier on this pick, maybe a Johan Petro, Shelden Williams, Ronny Turiaf, Jawad Williams or Wayne Simien, I'd want to see how they did in the workouts. I'd hazard a guess at Wayne Simien.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

with our first pick either felton or jack (i would prefer Jack becoz of his connection with bosh but i dnt think he is a 7-10 pik) then i would like warrick with our other pick this guy can explode like no other in the draft. but i wouldnt mind seeing green get drafted by us even tho he reminds me of Vc regardin attitude and that is not wat the raptors need right now. (i mean again) also wayne simien seems very dwight howard mixed with okafor-ish he's a monsta already maybe he's wat the raps need to get the boards but i dnt want anuva PF.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

OK,

I am going to go a totally opposite direction here.

My first choices are Gerald Green and Rudy Fernandez.

If one of them is gone I would substitute the best swingman available based on length, quickness, shooting, and heart. From this group: Joey Graham, Antoine Wright, CJ Miles, Francisco Garcia, and Ryan Gomes. No small guards.

Reasoning: We have 2 more years of MoP and JR. One more year of Lamond. We can afford to take a high school kid that has true star potential. Maybe even 2. We have Rafer inked for several more years and its not essential to get a PG this year. 

RudyF, GGreen, Bosh, Bonner, Hoffa, Sow is a nice young core.


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## VTRapsfan (Dec 5, 2004)

Jarrett Jack with our pick, and Hakim Warrick with Philly's are my choices. Also, Luther Head would be a nice pick if he slips far enough into the 2nd round.


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

1st pick - Gerald Green 

- combination of explosive first step and good ball handling abilities means he has the the potential to break people down.
- can finish strong.
- already said to have a nice jump shot.
- great size/length at the 2 or 3.


2nd pick - Guillermo Diaz or Antoine Wright(D.Williams or Jack would also be nice but are projected to go higher)

Diaz 

- perhaps best athleticism in draft. 
- superior quickness and good aggressiveness means he has the potential to be a good defender.
- excellent penetration ability.
- developing pg skills.
- hard worker.


Wright

- forget the specifics but I remember liking what I read.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

assuming our two picks will be about 8 and 12, and considering the underclassmen that have yet to officially declare, I would choose...

1. young athletic SF prospect (Gerald Green, Hakim Warrick)
-Warrick could be available with our second pick, where Green would have to be chosen with the first pick. Raps have been scouting Green pretty tough, but I heard he is considering going to college.

2. PG (Diaz, Felton, Jack)
-It doesn't matter to me which one we get, as long as Tor can acquire some help in the backcourt


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

Our pick: Felton, if gone Villaneuva

Philly pick: Villaneuva or if he's gone, Jack.

If those fall through - the folowing ranking:Green, Warrick, Diaz.

2nd round we can pick up a PG for sure- several good "kids." Nate Robinson (!!) Aaron Miles, Luther Head, Julius Hodge. Our first will be #35-38 most likely and should yeild a quality player, possibly even a predicted first rounder. If McCants falls we can't let him pass us, same with Garcia.


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

If he comes out, I'd like to see us pick up James White with our second rounder just so we can have a guy who can win the dunk contest... i mean, if the raptors are gonna lose for a couple of years, we might as well have someone who'll make it fun.


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

Gerald Green first, and Sheldon Williams second. 

Butr, do you think Sheldon won't be available at 12ish?


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Ballyhoo said:


> Gerald Green first, and Sheldon Williams second.
> 
> Butr, do you think Sheldon won't be available at 12ish?


Right now I honestly have no clue. It will depend on who all declares. I hope everyone rumoured to declare does so to strengthen the pool. He very well could be available @12. If Boozer could drop to 35 anything is possible. We will have a better idea closer to the draft.

Ideally, Babs can add a third pick. But who knows what he is looking to do. I would love to get my big, a swing and a 1 but that may be too much to ask.

There are so many PGs we just have to hope that the right one falls to us. Not unlike Boston last year. If you believe him, Ainge had Tony Allen and Delonte as his top ranked 2 and 1. What were they 22 and 23?

I just hope Babs does not go with a Darko or Skita, even if he thinks its the next Dirk.

Bottom line for Shelden, he has a draft slot in his head. If what he hears matches what's in his head, he'll declare. If not, back for his senior year.


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## drlove_playa (Feb 11, 2005)

I think this year is going to be a descent draft. Much better than last years. I mean there was no star in last years draft. Well Howard and Okafor are going to be stars someday but aren't now. Same thing this year. There are no immediate stars available.

I am a fan of Warricks offense, but his defense is horrid. This is something the raps don't need.

I haven't seen Green play before, but I have heard alot of good things. Maybe he is a potiential star. Also I think felton is going to be great, but we already have Alston, so I dunno about that.

I am thinking something like

raps pick: Green/felton (if he is there)

Philly pick: Shelden/Jack (cuz of his defense)

With a second rd.. I like Head or Stoudemire. Do we have 2 2nd rd picks this year? I think we owe one to Chicago tho?


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## McFurious (Mar 25, 2004)

With the Raps pick...Jarrett Jack/RayFelton whoever is still available. I like Felton over Jack but the fact that Jack is Bosh's friend plays a huge role but Im still scared over the Tmac and Vince thing...so you still never know.

With the Phili pick...Louis Williams this kid is the real deal IMO. If he doesnt enter and Warrick is still available then take Warrick no brainer.

Raps 2nd rounder...Julius Hodge if available.

Mami 2nd rounder...Flip a coin.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

McFurious said:


> but Im still scared over the Tmac and Vince thing...so you still never know.


Not arguing, just pointing out that Jack and Bosh became friends in college. T-Mac and VC did not know they were related until VC was drafted. Then the overshadowing came in. Jack understands the role of a PG, no ego.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

hmm, last time I went for a college experienced SF and a raw PG, this time I'll go opposite-

Felton and Gerald Green.

so many possibilities, I don't know what I want.

Jack and Sheldon could both come in and contribute, really solidifying our rotation but are lacking a little in the potential department...but we should have two picks we can use for projects the following year. 

Last year we NEEDED a big man (and thank god babcock not only took one, he took the right one, IMO, rather than Biedrins who I had wanted). This year we don't really NEED any one position. picking a PG will probably piss off Rafer, we have plenty of guys at the swing positions, Bosh and Hoffa at the 4 and 5, and Bonner and Sow off the bench.

That's kind of why I'd like a couple of tweeners like Warrick and Diaz...yeah, i'll stick with that one.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

1a. Rashad McCants 
1b. Guillermo Diaz

Diaz/McCants/Rose/Bosh/Hoffa is not that bad of a starting core in 2 yrs. I'm not real high on Gerald Green. I haven't seen him play, I just think he is getting over hyped because this HS class is weak and that many HS'ers from 2004 have been making an impact as rookies. Alot of people are sleeping on McCants because they automatically have visions of Joe Forte. His attitude is not THAT bad, and 6'5" is good height for a SG. McCants is only one inch shorter than that, only one inch. How big a deal can that be, I don't think a very big one. I like Diaz alot, could be the next Arenas. A Diaz/McCants backcourt might not be able to co-exist, now that I think about it more, but I think Toronto would be good to at least get Diaz. Antoine Wright and Rudy Fernandez would be some good alternatives, instead of McCants.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

McCants could fall a looooong way in this draft. If his 'intestinal problem' is anything like what Dajuan Wagner is going through nobody in the top 20 is going to touch him. 

Sheldon I just don't see on the Raps. He is a very nice college player and will be a solid PF in the nba. But with Hoffa, Sow, Bonner, and Bosh I don't see the need for him. Unless the Raps decide to let Sow walk this summer. If you look at Okafor he needs to play next to a legit C. I see the same thing for Sheldon. Doesn't help us enough for a top 15 pick. If we want a PF then trade down into the 20's or get a couple of early 2nd round picks. Or just sign Jamal Sampson as a FA for the min.

We NEED young wing players badly. And getting 2 in the top 15 should guarantee that at least one turns into a real stud.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

SkywalkerAC said:


> hmm, last time I went for a college experienced SF and
> 
> Jack and Sheldon could both come in and contribute, really solidifying our rotation but are lacking a little in the potential department..


I don't agree on the low potential part. Not just in their case but with other college juniors and seniors. Players game's grow all the time, they are just closer to their peak meaning you won't have to wait as long.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

lucky777s said:


> McCants could fall a looooong way in this draft. If his 'intestinal problem' is anything like what Dajuan Wagner is going through nobody in the top 20 is going to touch him.
> 
> Sheldon I just don't see on the Raps. He is a very nice college player and will be a solid PF in the nba. But with Hoffa, Sow, Bonner, and Bosh I don't see the need for him. Unless the Raps decide to let Sow walk this summer. If you look at Okafor he needs to play next to a legit C. I see the same thing for Sheldon. Doesn't help us enough for a top 15 pick. If we want a PF then trade down into the 20's or get a couple of early 2nd round picks. Or just sign Jamal Sampson as a FA for the min.
> 
> We NEED young wing players badly. And getting 2 in the top 15 should guarantee that at least one turns into a real stud.


I would not put a lot of stock in Sow. Like getting your hopes up for RMJ.


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## djmyte (Jun 10, 2002)

> I'm not real high on Gerald Green. I haven't seen him play, I just think he is getting over hyped because this HS class is weak and that many HS'ers from 2004 have been making an impact as rookies.


He probably is somewhat overhyped but the thing I like about him is he already has developed skills(supposedly anyway) like good ball handling ability and a jump shot. Combine skills like these with excellent athletic ability and good size and the potential to be a good NBA player is there. A lot of highschoolers that jump to the NBA don't have good basketball skills(fundamentals) or a high basketball IQ. This limits the amount of playing time they get and in the end, no playing time means no development.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

warrick and guillermo diaz

every game would be dunktastic


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

I read somewhere that Orlando has an option to switch their second rounder with yours, do you guys know anything about that? As for the draft, I'd go with a swingman and a big man. For the swing guy I'd take a look at Gerald Green. I'm hoping he falls to the Magic but that seems very unlikely. With your first pick I'd take a guy that hasn't been mentioned (he may not enter): Marty Vicious (you know who I'm talking about, I don't want to spell his name).


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

If you want a good read on Warrick's game tonight is a good chance to see it. UConn has forced SU to beat them outside, but with GMac heating it up last night, they will not be able to pack it in.

It also shows how Warrick can do against legit size who have NBA talent (Boone and Villaneuva) or how he handles girth / fat (Nelson). 

UConn has some of the best frontcourt players in the country.

Game is at 9:00 tonight on the Score (Big East Semi's)


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

I have seen Green play and I was very impressed I have never seen a high school player be able to create shots as good as him. He can hit step back J and creates great space. Plus his shot is very good and you combine that with great athlectism and how long he is I guarentee he will be an all-star. The only problem he has right now is consistency and needs someone to ride his *** and motivate him to play the same every game.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

The thing with highschoolers is that you never know how hard they work. The profile on Green says his effort level is questionable at times, but when you're _that_ much better than everyone around you and against you, I can imagine losing interest at times.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

speedythief said:


> The thing with highschoolers is that you never know how hard they work. The profile on Green says his effort level is questionable at times, but when you're _that_ much better than everyone around you and against you, I can imagine losing interest at times.


Which is the reason he should skip the NCAA, if this guy is deemed really good by scouts. He would get by on talent level alone at the NCAA level, and not work to reach the level of his opponents.

Playing 800 minutes a season in the NBA is always a better learning experience then playing in the NCAA.


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

speedythief said:


> The thing with highschoolers is that you never know how hard they work. The profile on Green says his effort level is questionable at times, but when you're _that_ much better than everyone around you and against you, I can imagine losing interest at times.


This is one of my reasons for my picks of Green and Sheldon Williams. Williams is a hard worker and hustler, so hopefully that would rub off on his fellow rookie. It's also a combination of a swing for the fences pick and a more conservative pick.


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## JL2002 (Nov 30, 2003)

#20 Salim Stoudamire.... :banana:


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Hey BUTR,

I still believe in RMJ. But he was a tweener, and ultimately replaceable. Milt improved his shooting so much this year that Roger would never have played anyway.

Sow is clearly a project, but Sheldon is raw offensively and will not have an impact on D in the nba like he does in college. Okafor is no defensive stopper and he ruled the NCAA. 

Only way I draft a guy like Sheldon is if he is a big time scorer. Which he isn't.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

I don't think it matters how Warrick looks against guys the size of boone or villanueva. At least not for raptor fans

if Babcock drafts him, it's because he thinks he can handle sf exclusively. If not, he wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

lucky777s said:


> Hey BUTR,
> 
> Sow is clearly a project, but Sheldon is raw offensively and will not have an impact on D in the nba like he does in college. Okafor is no defensive stopper and he ruled the NCAA.
> 
> Only way I draft a guy like Sheldon is if he is a big time scorer. Which he isn't.


What specifically does he lack on O IYO? Shelden does what is asked of him. The majority of O strategically comes outside. Their system is built on the 3. Boozer never scored huge in college. Then they went to him and scores 19-20 per.

What it comes down to really is faith in the player. I compare Shelden to Emeka and Ben Wallace with a better shot that rarely gets used. But those players are those players, Shelden is Shelden. Look at the FT%. That tells you what you need to know about his shooting mechanics that you can't see by not watching. I know he has a nice shot in the game but I watch every other Duke game. I know he pulls off putback dunks for those that question his athleticism. I know he plays big minutes which answers questions about durability (unlike Meka).

Those that disbelieve are entitled. But I have made my position known. I'll be here to eat crow or say I told ya so.

People have their positions. Mine is in reinforced concrete suppoting the Landlord.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Gerald Green or Warrick or Felton with the first

Jack (unlikely he's still there), Shelden, or Diaz with the second.

bah, I can't get the draft out of my head already.

I like the possibility of Mitchell using a big frontline with a small backcourt. For example:

Felton
Rafer
Bosh
Shelden
Hoffa

or

Rafer
Diaz
Warrick
Bosh
Hoffa


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

or my personal run and gun favourite- (only slightly unrealistic)

Jack
Green
Bonner
Sow
Bosh


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

speedythief said:


> The thing with highschoolers is that you never know how hard they work. The profile on Green says his effort level is questionable at times, but when you're _that_ much better than everyone around you and against you, I can imagine losing interest at times.


i honestly can't see too many young guys arriving in toronto and not working hard. yes, i think the culture has changed over that quickly. all the (core) guys, whether young or veteran, are likeable and seem to have a great attitude when it comes to working. obviously you need someone that fits into that niche but I think it's a pretty wide niche thanks to the personel in Toronto. I don't know if Bosh, Bonner, Hoffa, Sow, etc will all be working out together all summer (in fact I'm sure they won't all be together all summer) but I think they'll create a great working environment for young players, regardless.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

ansoncarter said:


> I don't think it matters how Warrick looks against guys the size of boone or villanueva. At least not for raptor fans
> 
> if Babcock drafts him, it's because he thinks he can handle sf exclusively. If not, he wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole


So nothing matters with Warrick's game this season then? I don't expect any Raptors fans here to make any more comments about his game period then.

Whether he plays SF in league or not, he will post up alot. (or in your world perhaps SF are not allowed to post). I think it is entirely relevant to see how he can get his shots off against athletic NBA type talent like Villaneuva. But your right, in the history of basketball no "4" has ever guarded a "3".


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

if the Raps take him, I don't think he'll be posting people the size of boone very often.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

The Sheldon vs. Okafor comparison is quite valid. I have been saying they are comparable players all along. In some ways Sheldon may be the better pro.

But I wouldn't want Okafor if he was in this draft either. The days of 6'9" C's in the East is past. Okafor is clearly a PF and Sheldon will be the same. 

The East has Shaq, BigZ, Curry, Brezec, Foster, Gadzuric, Joe Smith, Blount, Dalembert, Kwame, Haywood, Cato, Howard, Ely. It's harder to get by with small C's and that will only get worse.

I don't think drafting PF's is the way to go unless they are 15-20ppg scorers. There are tons of 6'9"-6'10" C's in college and the NBDL and CBA. Take them in the 2nd round, not the first.

The potential of the wing players and PG's available in the top 15 is greater than that of an undersized big who plays Bosh's position.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

lucky777s said:


> The Sheldon vs. Okafor comparison is quite valid. I have been saying they are comparable players all along. In some ways Sheldon may be the better pro.
> 
> But I wouldn't want Okafor if he was in this draft either. The days of 6'9" C's in the East is past. Okafor is clearly a PF and Sheldon will be the same.
> 
> ...



Other than Shaq, none of these guys scare me at all with Shelden. They really don't.

I won't argue the other points. This is why I want a 3rd pick we can get either the swing or point b/w 16 and 26 with trading the Denver pick. But that's me.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Watched a little bit of Deron Williams and Francisco Garcia today. 

Deron wasnt' guarding the PG spot in the time I watched which concerns me about his quickness to guard in the NBA. He does have a very strong body though, showed some nice passing skills, and good form on his shot. But we really need better perimeter D so I think we will need to work him out against quick PG's and see how he does.

Francisco, on the other hand, looked like a pretty good defender in the limited time I watched him. Good quickness for his size and really got down low into defensive position. Didn't see much of him on O but he was named his team's player of the game.

Anybody watch those full games? What did you think of them?


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

lucky777s said:


> Watched a little bit of Deron Williams and Francisco Garcia today.
> 
> Deron wasnt' guarding the PG spot in the time I watched which concerns me about his quickness to guard in the NBA. He does have a very strong body though, showed some nice passing skills, and good form on his shot. But we really need better perimeter D so I think we will need to work him out against quick PG's and see how he does.


With the D problems we already have, this is my concern about him the most. Seems a bit pudgy around the edges.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

lucky777s said:


> I don't think drafting PF's is the way to go unless they are 15-20ppg scorers. There are tons of 6'9"-6'10" C's in college and the NBDL and CBA. Take them in the 2nd round, not the first.


Today, Dick Vitale:

"Oh, I woulda dumped it into Williams but he missed him." Williams slid on the pick and roll early in the first half. Ewing decided to hold and shoot for three. Swish. This encapsulates a lot of the Duke O. The other part is Redick coming off screens that Shelden often sets. Vitale harped on it today, but with Redick bombing from 3, can you blame them?

JJ Redick Scored 35 on 11 of 16. A) this takes shots away from others, he is the focal point. B) When you make like he does, offensive rebounds are less available.

Shelden was 7 of 11 with a bad 1 of 5 from the line (the whole team was cold at the end at the line). His scores were a mix. Some were easy. A lot were against double and even triple teams posting up.

I don't understand why this type of performance goes unknown. Shelden is averaging 15+ as a 2nd and often 3rd option. You can't score 30+ from the post when you only get 10 attempts.

What do want that he does not give you besides 2 or 3 inches, which he makes up for in arm length?


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## MonsterBosh (Feb 9, 2005)

The Raptor's are in dire need of an intelligent PG who will control the offense and play decent defense. Alvin is a cripple, Rafer is a joke and Milt is dumb. Mitchell is evidently suffering with the play of his PGs who cannot seem to play with brains.

Is there an instant PG in this year's draft that will be an immediate impact player in the NBA? Some of the good college PGs stayed in school and really upgraded the NCAA this year. The question is who would be the greatest help to the Raptors and be able to play a full NBA season?

If the Raptors were able to get Jack, that might help keep Bosh in Toronto provided that Jack could play effectively at the NBA level. If the Raptors strike out in this and next year's drafts, and are not able to attract better veterans, you can say goodbye to Bosh .... unless the Raptors tie him up with something like $15M for 7 years. If Bosh is the building block for the Raptor's future, they had better be prepared to open the vault in two years.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

how do guys feel about McCants out of UNC


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

anyone watch the UNC/Duke game today? Jack looked incredible. i'm off the deron williams bandwagon, JJ is exactly what we need. Let's pray for a Jack/Villanueva/Hodge draft.


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## Marvin Williams Jr. (Dec 18, 2004)

Our pick...

1. Gerald Green
2. Charlie Villanueva

Philly pick...

1. Rudy Fernandez
2. Guillermo Diaz
3. Jarrett Jack
4. Chris Taft
5. Sheldon Williams
6. Ike Diogu


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

-James- said:


> anyone watch the UNC/Duke game today? Jack looked incredible. i'm off the deron williams bandwagon, JJ is exactly what we need.


I've been pushing JJ for a long while now.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

yeah, I'm starting to lean towards Jack with our first pick as well. he's not going to be a star but he is going to be a leader. and I think he'd look great next to Rafer at times as well.

perfect draft for me is now Jack, Shelden, and Hodge. We'd be set for bigs and at the point, what a change from years gone by. 

damn you blowup.

i'm starting to lean away from Warrick because Bonner is looking more and more like our backup 3... and because i'm starting to think that we already have our athletic combo forward in Pape Sow.

might have to push the crazy dunkers back a year. we'll have our rotation in place and will be able to take some chances on developmental players.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

SkywalkerAC said:


> yeah, I'm starting to lean towards Jack with our first pick as well. he's not going to be a star but he is going to be a leader. and I think he'd look great next to Rafer at times as well.
> 
> perfect draft for me is now Jack, Shelden, and Hodge. We'd be set for bigs and at the point, what a change from years gone by.
> 
> ...


 :laugh: 

The more you watch him, the more you want him *who's he talking about Jack or Shelden?*. Ah, it applies to both.

Bosh is playing serious minutes. Hoffa is looking better and better. With Donyell leaving, there are going to minutes to fill.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Yeah, Shelden & Jack is looking more and more to be the consensus Raptors draft around here. I wouldn't mind taking Villenueva, Green, or Warrick over Shelden, but I really want Jack in a Raptors uniform.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

i really wish that we could go for Green or Warrick with our first pick and be left with Jack or Shelden for our second but I don't really see it happening unfortunately. 

I could be clueless but I think New Jersey would be hard pressed to pass on Shelden (though Taft or Splitter would probably be their first choices). Jack, on the other hand, I don't see lasting past LAC, who need a true PG type to complement and backup Livingston.


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## Marvin Williams Jr. (Dec 18, 2004)

Hakim Warrick is a piece of crap.

Whichever one of you guys actually thinks he'd be a good pick in the top 20 really need some help.

And, Eid shoma mobarak. :biggrin:


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## slash_010 (Dec 20, 2003)

How old is Gerald Green? Isnt there talk about the 20 age limit?


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

I'm not sure it will ever happen but it definitely won't be in place for this draft.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

I'm not sure it will ever happen but it definitely won't be in place for this draft. (though now would probably be a good time for it with fewer young players in this draft anyway)


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

I beleive the Age restriction would have to be included in the new collective bargaining agreement, that the NBA siply can't impose one on the players. This means that if it is coming in soon, players likely won't be able to come out next year as HS'ers or as freshmen. That should create a big wave of HS'ers this year, despite the contentions that this class of HS'ers is a little weak.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

Marvin Williams Jr. said:


> Hakim Warrick is a piece of crap.
> 
> Whichever one of you guys actually thinks he'd be a good pick in the top 20 really need some help.
> 
> And, Eid shoma mobarak. :biggrin:



Hakim Warrick is a piece of golden dynamite

he's awesome. And he's smart too. Smarter than most scientists


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

I like Jack, but watching him lying on the court clutching his ankle after little or no contact from the Duke player was too reminicent of a certain former Raptor.


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

Ballyhoo said:


> I like Jack, but watching him lying on the court clutching his ankle after little or no contact from the Duke player was too reminicent of a certain former Raptor.


 landing on someones ankle hurts... and seeing him get back up and continue to play with that ankle at full pace (not taking a couple weeks off) was impressive. like others have said, i dont think he'll ever end up being that great, but he seems to have that emotion and leadership we so sorely lack. i wouldnt expect him to become gary payton, if at his peak he can reach the level mike bibby or tony parker is at now, i'd be more than happy. i also agree with pushing the explosive dunker notion back a year. we could probably get flight white in the second round next year.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

WE NEED DERON WILLIAMS AS OUR FUTURE STARTING PG.
IF HE IS GONE FELTON SEEMS LIKE A BETTE RVERSION OF ALSTON
I THINK WE SHOULD TRADE THE PHILLY PICK DOWN TO THE MID 20'S TRY GETTING A DECENT VET C IN EXCHANGE FOR THE PICK.
THEN

LOTTO PICK
PG DERON WILLIAMS

MID RND 1 PICK
SG SALIM STODAMIRE

RND 2 sf jawad williams


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

Junkyard Dog13 said:


> WE NEED DERON WILLIAMS AS OUR FUTURE STARTING PG.
> IF HE IS GONE FELTON SEEMS LIKE A BETTE RVERSION OF ALSTON
> I THINK WE SHOULD TRADE THE PHILLY PICK DOWN TO THE MID 20'S TRY GETTING A DECENT VET C IN EXCHANGE FOR THE PICK.
> THEN
> ...


 i'd rather have a guy like nate robinson or francisco garcia than salim stodamire. we can probably do better. anyways, we're rebuilding, we are not a win now team. i mean, aaron williams (unfortunately) is probably as good a bigman as we can get, probably better than anyone we can get with philly's pick if we expect to get a first on top of the big man. im really not feeling the trade or the you'd pick after the trade. i stand by my JJ, Villanueva, Hodge draft.


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## rapsfan4life (Apr 10, 2004)

I am supporting the Jack, Shelden Draft as well!!!!!!

Our perimeter when it comes to SF and SG will still be suffering but mo and jalen should hold i down.

I will no doubt change my mind as most of you will 100000000 times before the draft, in fact as i'm typing this i am thinking of joey graham and i'm thinking he would be a beast for us.lol


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

Emotion and leadership is nice, but lots of players have that and never do anything at the NBA level. Mateen Cleeves is a great example.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Ballyhoo said:


> I like Jack, but watching him lying on the court clutching his ankle after little or no contact from the Duke player was too reminicent of a certain former Raptor.


Ah. **** happens. But what did he do after the injury? 

Jack is certainly better than Mateen. We merely point out the mentality that he has and that others in this class lack. He has the other tools as well.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Let's hope we can win one of the three spots in the lottery, so we can get Gay. (what is the chance of an 8th place team getting 1 of the 3 lottery postions - about 15%?)


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

JuniorNoboa said:


> Let's hope we can win the lottery, so we can get Gay.


 lol... would you buy his jersey?


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Ah. **** happens. But what did he do after the injury?
> 
> Jack is certainly better than Mateen. We merely point out the mentality that he has and that others in this class lack. He has the other tools as well.


I don't think Jack was better then Mateen, when Mateen was as a sophomore. While Mateen was a great leader on the championship team, his regression as a player, and the significant regression in his atleticism, from a sophomore to a senior is a great mystery.

I like Jack, but the ACC guard that I like the most is John Gilchrist. And despite his struggles this year, I think this can make him a value pick later in the first round. Perhaps trade down our 12 th pick, for say a 17th and a 26th (pure hypothetical)


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## drlove_playa (Feb 11, 2005)

I think Rudy Gay is going to be a huge bust. I doubt he is even going to declare this year.

I'd like to see us get Salim with out 2nd rd pick, but I don't see it happening. He has a deadly shot, but his size is an issue. He is not exactly a PG, his ball handling is shaky.

I think Jarret Jack is over-rated. Jack likes to drive to the basket. I don't see him being successful doing that in the NBA vs bigger and way better players.

Shelden williams, the more I think about it, is not really what we need right now. He would be a PF, and that is Bosh's position. Williams is too small to play the C and there aren't enough mins at the PF for him to develop properly.

We need a potiental star with our pick and we need a good defender, that can contribute offensively with the philly pick.

I don't see us drafting a PG because Alvin will be back next year. A dream come true would be for Alvin to be traded, but that will never happen.

I have yet to see Diaz play, but I have heard alot of good things. Anyone know the report on him?


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

drlove_playa said:


> I don't see us drafting a PG because Alvin will be back next year. A dream come true would be for Alvin to be traded, but that will never happen.


The Raptors will most definitely draft a PG, because the draft is so PG-heavy. There are 5 potential lotto PG's, plus more in the mid-to-late first round and of course the 2nd. This is the perfect opportunity for us to try finding our future PG.

Alvin being around will only help the new PG's development.

As for Diaz, I haven't seen him play but word is that he's extremely raw. I'd still take Jack over him. He's not going to be a star but he's a leader. And honestly I don't see why some people want the Raptors to look for a star. We don't necessarily need a star in this draft - how many "stars" does a team need? We need to get guys to compliment our team and Chris Bosh in particular, and Jack does that. As for Williams, if Bonner plays the 3, that opens up more space for him. Also him and Bosh will share some of the backup C minutes, even though they're undersized.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

JuniorNoboa said:


> I don't think Jack was better then Mateen, when Mateen was as a sophomore. While Mateen was a great leader on the championship team, his regression as a player, and the significant regression in his atleticism, from a sophomore to a senior is a great mystery.
> 
> I like Jack, but the ACC guard that I like the most is John Gilchrist. And despite his struggles this year, I think this can make him a value pick later in the first round. Perhaps trade down our 12 th pick, for say a 17th and a 26th (pure hypothetical)


Seems to have attitude, uh, deficiencies. Maybe its nothing.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

drlove_playa said:


> I think Jarret Jack is over-rated. Jack likes to drive to the basket. I don't see him being successful doing that in the NBA vs bigger and way better players.


Yeah, 6-3 200+ just won't cut it, and driving is a bad thing. 

Mmhhmm, yeah, mmhhmm. ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Seems to have attitude, uh, deficiencies. Maybe its nothing.


No doubt; he has major attitude deficiencies. Plus, He's still a junior and Gary Williams has a history of getting peope to stay.

I think he has lotto pick talent, but he will to late first because of his attitude. I just think some of these kids can become more mature once they reach the league (trying to think of some recent examples, but my mind is blanking out)

But I am thinking about Rafer, so maybe we don't need for attitude at the point - especially not Rafer as a mentor.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

I am getting much higher on this Diaz kid (not sure why I was not before). It will be interesting to see whether scouts assess that he has PG Skills. If he does, he can jumo all the way to a top 5 pick.

I think there is a slight chance that if Paul leaves he might start slipping down.


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## rapsfan4life (Apr 10, 2004)

Legend has it he has a 50 inch vertical    


BUT BUT BUT, he cant dribble whatsoever under pressure and cant run a team for beans, he also has problems with the language with essential for a PG. That said, he is super talented and probably has the highest ceiling of any PG and maybe even player in this years draft but is also the rawest and is high risk high reward.
By the way today's hoopshype says he will declare for the draft but will keep his options open, so it depends on his workouts.


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## drlove_playa (Feb 11, 2005)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Yeah, 6-3 200+ just won't cut it, and driving is a bad thing.
> 
> Mmhhmm, yeah, mmhhmm. ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.


Jack's moves might work in the college game, but in the NBA where every single player is good, they won't. His drives to the basket and throwing up wild shots will not get the calls in the NBA like he does in college. 


And who said we don't need a star? Man we need a player who can give us 15-20 ppg. Bosh and Rose are good players. But look at every other team. They have about 2-3 stars. 

You guys over-rate everyone on the raps roster. Look at the team, it is useless. Calling Sow and Hoffa the front court of the future or whatever. Those guys will be lucky to remain bench players throughout their careers.

Sow might have good work ethic, but u can only go so far with that. He has no skill on offense and isn't much on defense. Yes he may work hard, but u got to have the talent.


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

Budweiser_Boy said:


> lol... would you buy his jersey?


 i would  i'd much rather have marvin williams jr. though.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

drlove_playa said:


> Jack's moves might work in the college game, but in the NBA where every single player is good, they won't. His drives to the basket and throwing up wild shots will not get the calls in the NBA like he does in college.
> 
> 
> And who said we don't need a star? Man we need a player who can give us 15-20 ppg. Bosh and Rose are good players. But look at every other team. They have about 2-3 stars.
> ...



Seen 2 games have you?


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

A pipe dream would be getting up in the top 3 with help from the ping pong balls and picking up Marvin Williams or Rudy Gay, but that doesn't seem realistic with our current situation.

Assuming we have the 9th and 12th pick (where we are at now, i believe)

I'd go with Gerald Green and Jarrett Jack. We get two young athletes who can flat out score and defend. An infusion of two guys like these would help us a lot.

Another realistic combonation could be Raymond Feltond and Joey Graham.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

blowuptheraptors said:


> Seen 2 games have you?


 You're very generous.

Every team has 2-3 stars? :laugh:


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