# Top 10 Point Guard Prospects



## Guest (Mar 24, 2003)

1. Marcus Hatten
2. Troy Bell
3. Jameer Nelson
4. Terrance Ford
5. Marcus Banks
6. Reece Gaines
7. Raymond Felton
8. Hollis Price (pg/sg)
9. Marque Perry (St. Louis)
10. Sebastain Telfair (hs)

H.M. : Ben Gordon
Luke Ridnour
Kirk Hinrich
Omar Cook (didnt see him-injured?)
Keith Bogans


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## SikHandlez24 (Jun 8, 2002)

Hatten - Way to high if rating on pro-potential
Bell - Might not even get drafted in first round, needs to learn to play 1 spot
Jameer Nelson - little high, should be good backup
Felton - should be way higher
Hollis - not really PG, to thin and won't be anything special
Ridnour - top 3 PG prospect in US
Hinrich - people don't really give him credit, should be higher
Bogans - isn't a PG
Cook - plays in NBDL, been with like 3-4 teams and hasn't made it, one of them was the Nuggets and when you can't make it with the Nuggets something is wrong


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kyllacam22</b>!
> 1. Marcus Hatten
> 2. Troy Bell
> 3. Jameer Nelson
> ...


No Chris Thomas? Marcus Hatten is rated way to high. Felton should be number next year or even arguably this year. Ford shoud be 1. I like seeing Gaines on your list. Telfair I have seen footage off and he is not great but good...a Duhon like player. Gordan will be top 3 next year. Price is more of a PG I don't count 2 apg as a PG. Ridnour is top 3 this year his dribbling and handles is incredible. Omar is in the NBADL but I don't think anymore. I believe he plays overseas. Cook has amazing court vision but one of the worst shots I have ever seen. I think he shot sub .350 in his lone college season.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>kyllacam22</b>!
> 1. Marcus Hatten
> 2. Troy Bell
> 3. Jameer Nelson
> ...


You should totally rework youre list. Marucus Hatten and Troy Bell both should be rated lower and they are more SG than PG. I cant even call them shoot first point because they really dont even intiate the offense. Nelson is fine where he is and might actually be the best point guard in all of college. It can be argued. Top 5 point are in no particular order. FOrd,Ridnour,Nelson,Banks,Hinrich


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

why is anyone actually commenting on this rediculous list,when the top 3,ford,ridnour,hinrich arent even in the top 10.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

my top 5:
1. tj ford
2. luke ridnour
3. chris thomas
4. raymond felton(could move up next year)
5. jameer nelson

hinrich doesn't play pg for kansas. i think miles is a better pg than hinrich (though hinrich is the better player). price, bell, gordon, and maybe gaines(i don't see much of louisville so i'm not really sure if he is a pg or sg) will have to move from sg to pg. out of those i think gordon will be the best. hatten could end up a starter in the nba but could just as easily be out of the league after a year or two.


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## Lakers_32_4ever (Dec 30, 2002)

is terrance ford, tj ford? anyways, rather strange list.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lakers_32_4ever</b>!
> is terrance ford, tj ford? anyways, rather strange list.


Yes it is


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## Lakers_32_4ever (Dec 30, 2002)

ok. just wondering cause someone said it did not even have ford on it.


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

Luke Ridy is absolutly amazing. He can do everything and is so smooth with the ball.

1. Luke Ridnour
2. T.J. Ford
3. Chris Thomas


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Ford, Thomas and Ridnour are probably tops. But don't sleep on some of those freshman like Felton, Roberson, Jack, Gilchrist....


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## SportsGuru5 (Jul 15, 2002)

Daniel Horton should be on the list. He's more of a pure point guard than some guys like Price and Hatten.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Jameer Nelson from Saint Jospeh is just as good if not better than any of the aformentioned players


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## Hollis (Jun 4, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> Jameer Nelson from Saint Jospeh is just as good if not better than any of the aformentioned players


Amen brotha


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## Lakers_32_4ever (Dec 30, 2002)

how yall think duhon is gonna do in the league?


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2003)

*duhon*

He might do good if he gets in shape and is able to stay under control but he needs another year in college. I think nest year he will have a secondary role to Daniel Ewing.


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

mustafa shakur is a prospect


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## 22ryno (Mar 17, 2003)

College: 
Ridnour
Ford
Hinrich
Banks
Nelson(stays another year)
Thomas(stays another year)
Gordon(ditto)
Felton(ditto)

High School:
Telfair(supposedly beat famous cousin one on one)
Shakur
Livingston
Paul


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2003)

*diaz-pg?*

has anyone seen the dude with the 50 inch vert?
is he a pg and is he good. last i heard he doesnt have good ballhandling skills.


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## Joe_Canada (Jul 15, 2002)

two words: Blake Stepp. Guys doesnt get nearly enough respect. Better player than dickau


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## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

Sebastian Telfair is not that good, really! On top of that he's only 5-7 on a great day. The two best HS PGs are Shaun Livingston and "Tack"(Taurean) Minor. They were the standout PGs in the summer camps, and they have the most to offer. Shakur is a scoring guard, and Telfair is a flashy midget with realatively little game.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TheGoods</b>!
> Sebastian Telfair is not that good, really! On top of that he's only 5-7 on a great day. The two best HS PGs are Shaun Livingston and "Tack"(Taurean) Minor. They were the standout PGs in the summer camps, and they have the most to offer. Shakur is a scoring guard, and Telfair is a flashy midget with realatively little game.


Your are only right on 2 pts in your post about Minor and Lvingston. Mustafa is not and i repeat not a scoring guard. His stats are a little inflated in the scoring department this year because he has nobody on his team. 2nd he is the top rated PG in all of highschool. Telfair when he was here in Philly last month in Villlanova and he played my alma mater Strawberry Mansion I shook his hand and I am 5' 11 with no shoes on and we were the exact same height. He has game


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2003)

*telfair*

if he has no game how can he average like 30 pts. as a sophmore?


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## BigChris (Jul 12, 2002)

My top 5 pg prospects:

1) Felton
2) Banks
3) Ford
4) Hinrich
5) Ridnour


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

1 - Ray Felton - Was getting accolades as the next Stephon Marbury-type scoring PG... then people figured out he could pass...an absolutely DOMINANT ballhandler... has two of the quickest hands I have ever seen...When he looks to score, he can dominate...However, his real strength comes as a floor leader...simply makes people look foolish...a one man press break, and the definition of a tempo setter...Will be something special in the NBA...needs another year to improve consistency...will be a top 5 pick in 2004

2 - TJ Ford - Has Kidd's ability to make others around him better...but in Iverson's body...can penetrate with the best...overall quickness is unrivaled...improving as a scorer...needs to improve shot...sometimes gets sloppy, but controls the pace of the game...size is the only thing keeping him out of the top 5...lotto pick in 2003...high lotto in 2004

3 - Kirk Hinrich - A LOT better NBA prospect than people give him credit for...relentless at pushing the ball...quick first step...top-notch, fundamental shooter...quick release will help in the pro's...one of those guys whose one step ahead of everybody else mentally...understands when to attack, and when not to...defensive quickness might be a problem...don't think playing next to Miles for two seasons hurts him...he's as "true" an NBA PG as you can get...lottery in 2003

4 - Chris Thomas - the more you see, the more you like...has a knack for the spectacular...at the same time, makes some dumb decisions by rushing things...has trouble controlling the flow of the game...good court vision...finds scoring opportunities nobody else would...can shoot/score from anywhere, on the move, or set...when he finds the holes and hits the floater, forget about guarding him...will probably stay another year or two to improve decision making...fringe lotto when he comes out

5 - Marcus Banks - has the size/athleticism to excel as an NBA PG...knows how to get to the hole...has no problem creating his own shot...plays out of control at times...not as much of a floor leader as those ranked ahead of him...solid mid-first round in 2003

6 - Mo Williams - Forces the issue on the offensive end...quick hands...makes decisions so fast that opponents often can't react at all...inconsistent as a scorer/shooter, but can be dominant...can improve efficiency as a shooter & distributor...nice first step...Alabama is Mo's team in 2003-04...he could be lotto in 2004 if he can keep improving. 

7 - Ben Gordon - Improved his stock more than anybody this season...proved he can direct an offense when Brown was hurt...not an impact distributor, but doesn't try to be something he isn't...excellent first step, and a master of getting his shot off in traffic...great outside shot...has the chance to be a Gilbert Arenas style PG...first round whenever he goes, but could be lotto in 2004 if he were to stay and continue to improve his PG skills

8 - Luke Ridnour - Deceptive...not athletic, not strong, but finds ways to score...greatfloor leader...plays a very controlled game mentally...good at getting shots off in traffic...as clutch as they come...will have trouble with more athletic NBA PG's...maybe not a starting PG in the NBA, but will get a look in the first round

9 - Jameer Nelson - showed a lot in the tourney...solid quickness...great court awareness...developed into a big-time scorer, because his team needed him to...a bit undersized...a complete PG...I didn't think he had the look of a first round pick until the Auburn game...definitely worthy of a first round look in 2004

10 - Dee Brown - Speed, speed, and more speed...remarkably efficient ballhandler and distributor, even if he can't dominate the game with scoring quite like a TJ Ford...needs to expand his scoring abilities...size may scare teams away...nonetheless, looks like a first rounder at some point in the future


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

Marcus Banks WILL be a good NBA point guard, the others who have the best chances are Ford, Ridnour, Felton, and Hinrich.

If you've watched Marcus Banks you know he has an NBA game. It's that simple.


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## jsa (Jul 16, 2002)

I don't see Bell as an NBA point at all. If he improves he could be a bit like Dana Barros or Tony Delk. Not NBA level point skills or mentality. 

If Jameer Nelson was 6'3" we might be talking Steve Nash. But under six feet is tough. Every thing else about him is suberb.He is physically strong and will make the NBA, but at what performance level? 

Luke Walton looks like the next point forward.Exceptionally balanced game, which may hurt him in the league, where coaches often insert a sub for a specific purpose. I'd take a shot at him late first round if I was a GM, which of course we all are, but only in our own minds. 

Quality NBA point is just so damn hard, that is why specualtion can run the gamut.


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## jsa (Jul 16, 2002)

For those old enough to remember, Dee Brown reminds me of Hem Gilliam with a touch of Fred Carter. Elusive, effective, hard to pigeonhole. Can come in a gema and make things happen, usually, but not always, for the better. Is he related to Dee Brown, the old Celtic?


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## Wildcats (Mar 25, 2003)

1.TJ Ford
2.Ray Felton
3.Chris Thomas
4.Marcus Banks
5.Mo Williams
6.Troy Bell
7.Luke Ridnour
8.Kirk Hinrich
9.Brandon Knight
10.Chris Duhon

I'm somewhat dissapointed by the lack of mentionings of Brandon Knight and Chris Duhon.  I think Knight has a chance to be a very solid NBA point guard. He's an excellent floor leader, he makes his teammates better and he's improved his shooting quite a bit. What he lacks in flash he makes up for in production and results, and until I see guys like Thomas/Ridnour/Felton cut down on their turnovers and Bell/Williams/Banks improve their passing, I'll take Knight before any PG in the country sans T.J Ford.

Jameer Nelson and Dee Brown are great, but their size raises too many questions for me, and I haven't seen nearly as much from them as I have the other sub 6-foot super prospect, Ford.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Wildcats</b>!
> Jameer Nelson and Dee Brown are great, but their size raises too many questions for me, and I haven't seen nearly as much from them as I have the other sub 6-foot super prospect, Ford.


I am dissapointed that Jameer Nelson is not in your top 4. If you watch college basketball than you know that he is top 4 no question and arguably top 3. Since you havent seen him then you can not put together an accurate list. Who cares if they are under 6 feet. But he is a legit 5'11 possibly 6. Size dont matter, to many So called scouts get caught up in that. If you can play the game and you are good to great at it you will be fine. And Nelson is great.


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## Wildcats (Mar 25, 2003)

You misunderstood me. I meant I haven't seen much from Nelson and Brown....in the way of ability, or rather, enough ability to overcome their size.

Nelson's great, I like him a lot(was spectacular against Auburn the other day), but I've seen far too many guys like him who put up great stats but do very little in the NBA. Lynn Greer, for example. Same size, same kind of player(left handed, quick, scorer, carried his team), and where is he now?

You don't see too many Mugsey Bogues these days. If you're not a certain size you have to have specialized skills(defensive stopper, like Tyronne Lue, or passer, like Early Boykins), and you're almost always a role player. T.J Ford is a rare exception because he has godlike athletic ability and court vision, and he's a borderline 6-footer anyway.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Wildcats</b>!
> You misunderstood me. I meant I haven't seen much from Nelson and Brown....in the way of ability, or rather, enough ability to overcome their size.
> 
> Nelson's great, I like him a lot(was spectacular against Auburn the other day), but I've seen far too many guys like him who put up great stats but do very little in the NBA. Lynn Greer, for example. Same size, same kind of player(left handed, quick, scorer, carried his team), and where is he now?
> ...


Nelson is nothing like Lynn Greer. Lynn was never a PG. He played it by default because he was too small to be SG. Nelson is a floor General. He scores when he has too and is a passer first. The only other players that I can say controls a game like him is Ford and or Banks. Lynn Greer by the way was lucky to be listed at 175 while Jameer is built like a tank at 200 pds. He has a NBA body


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## Wildcats (Mar 25, 2003)

I disagree. If he can adjust his game as easily as you seem to believe I can see him having a solid NBA career, though probably as a role player. I like him, don't get me wrong, but he is not 6-feet 200 pounds, and regardless of whether or not you're willing to admit it, size does matter in the NBA. Sad, but true.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Wildcats</b>!
> I disagree. If he can adjust his game as easily as you seem to believe I can see him having a solid NBA career, though probably as a role player. I like him, don't get me wrong, but he is not 6-feet 200 pounds, and regardless of whether or not you're willing to admit it, size does matter in the NBA. Sad, but true.


Ok how about this. Your are going to tell me that someone I see on a regular basis is not that size. I dont know where you live, but I live right here in Philadelphia. 10 minutes from St Joseph University. He shares a room with a friend of mine. I see him all the time he is 6 foot 200. I dont know id you think the Television skews that but he is. 2ndly you make a point where size matters but if you are good you overcome that. Tim Hardaway, John Stockton I can go on and on. If you can play and are good you can overcome that


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## Wildcats (Mar 25, 2003)

A poster in the "best SG prospects" thread, who claims he has seen him in person several times, is certain that Jarvis Hayes is 6'4. So, unless you've stood next to Jameer as he was measured and weighed, I think it's fairly easy to misjudge someone's size when you meet them.

I haven't seen Jameer in person, but I've seen him play, and he's almost always smaller than the man guarding him.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Wildcats</b>!
> A poster in the "best SG prospects" thread, who claims he has seen him in person several times, is certain that Jarvis Hayes is 6'4. So, unless you've stood next to Jameer as he was measured and weighed, I think it's fairly easy to misjudge someone's size when you meet them.
> 
> I haven't seen Jameer in person, but I've seen him play, and he's almost always smaller than the man guarding him.


possibly height wise but not, weight wise he is a big boy. I know exaclty the thread you are talking about. Jameer is someone I see on a regular occasion. Stand next to him, talk to him. Even has tried to get him to do a Q and A for the site. Believe me I am stating fact on this one


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## jsa (Jul 16, 2002)

You GO Beez- defend the local guy. If Nelson stays he and West are the #1 backcourt in the country.And I'm a Temple man, not St. Joe's. 

The size issue is real and should not be dismiissed. Although there are some good under 6' point guards, without a doubt (Tiny Archibald was about the best) it is a liabilty. Not an insurmountable liabilty, but has to be noted on the resume. Nelson has improved so much,you got to think he has a legit shot. His strength helps make up for a couple of inches. He does not have a pro three range yet most likely, but he has proper form and can develop that . He is smart, aggressive but sensible in decesion making. Fine passer , team player. Defends hard. He is nothing like Lynn Greer, who was a different kind of player. 

Before the injury, I was astonished at how good on offense Delonte West had become. He is like a "tough out" in baseball- just hurts you no matter what you do. Size as a two could be his problem as well when projecting NBA level.


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## LionsFan01 (Aug 7, 2002)

I have a problem with all the lists posted here except for like one. I see nowhere Steve Blake or Brandin Knight. Both have their teams in the Sweet 16 and could easily get them farther. Blake has possibly the best court vision in the country and is one of the best if not the best passer. Forget the fact that he doesn't shoot enough, he's a pass first PG who makes the shots that his team needs him to make. Knight is more of a scorer than a passer but he is still a great floor general.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

*Top 12 PG's prospects.*

1)Raymond Felton- Just to hard to pass up such a competitor, great offensive player and can really pass the ball.

2)TJ Ford- Very close second, his size is the only problem, still is the best when looking at just a set up PG, unreal talent.

3)Moe Williams- Another great scoring PG, tough, strong, aggressive, has a nice shot and has a great mid-range game.

4)Reece Gaines- Tall PG, that is what everyone wants, he is a solid defender, quick feet and has great penetration and kickout ability.

5)Troy Bell- Great leadership abilities, is a nice offensive player but his intense drive and competitive fire will set him apart.

6)Ben Gordon- Scoring PG, athletic, fast, quick, but is not a good passer at all, needs to work on that but he will play the "SG" anyway.

7)Luke Ridnour- A great PG, fast, has a really good handle, can pass the rock as good as anyone, will drop maybe in the draft because of his athletic skill.

8)Kirk Hinrich- Probably one of the best defenders, very solid offensive player with good size.

9)Chris Duhon- Still like him, very good defender, long arms and makes things happen, very good passer just needs to improve offense to moveup.

10)Chris Thomas- Don't really like him, to short and weak, not very long either, put he is tough and can make shots, but can't pass that well.

11)Derrick Zimmerman- Great athlete, good solid defender, if he extends his range he will moveup the charts.

12)Antonio Burks- Sleeper talent, tough player, great quickness, very creative just needs to work on his jumper.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: Top 12 PG's prospects.*



> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> 1)Raymond Felton- Just to hard to pass up such a competitor, great offensive player and can really pass the ball.
> 
> 2)TJ Ford- Very close second, his size is the only problem, still is the best when looking at just a set up PG, unreal talent.
> ...


I cant believe Jameer nelson is not on your list


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## BigChris (Jul 12, 2002)

*Re: Top 12 PG's prospects.*



> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> 1)Raymond Felton- Just to hard to pass up such a competitor, great offensive player and can really pass the ball.
> 
> 2)TJ Ford- Very close second, his size is the only problem, still is the best when looking at just a set up PG, unreal talent.
> ...


Tha'ts a pretty ugly list.

Moe Williams ahead of Ben Gordon, Reece Gaines, and Kirk Hinrich?

No Banks or Jameer Nelson, but you have Derrick Zimmerman on the list?

Luke Ridnour fast?

Yikes.


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## gold101 (Mar 22, 2003)

I think Daniel Horton should be on the list


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## Wildcats (Mar 25, 2003)

In terms of talent, Mo Williams has more upside than Gaines, Gordon or Hinrich.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lakers_32_4ever</b>!
> how yall think duhon is gonna do in the league?


He better have one hell of a season next year to be drafted.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

BigChris: Damn, this kid has a pretty big mouth...

And I do not have Banks and Nelson on that list because I have not seen them yet. I will not read what others say about him or look on other mock drafts and make my opinions from that. But other people on this board do, but I don't sorry. Have to see it to believe it, and I don't rank players I have not seen yet. And if you don't think Ridnour is fast with that ball, what the hell are you watching? And Moe Williams is a fine PG prospect, and Gordon is not really a true PG anyway...


BEEZ: That is why I did not have Nelson on that list, I have not seen him in a while and that is why I didn't rank him.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> BigChris: Damn, this kid has a pretty big mouth...
> 
> And I do not have Banks and Nelson on that list because I have not seen them yet. I will not read what others say about him or look on other mock drafts and make my opinions from that. But other people on this board do, but I don't sorry. Have to see it to believe it, and I don't rank players I have not seen yet. And if you don't think Ridnour is fast with that ball, what the hell are you watching? And Moe Williams is a fine PG prospect, and Gordon is not really a true PG anyway...
> ...


no problem


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## BigChris (Jul 12, 2002)

Moe Williams ain't going ahead of Reece Gaines or Hinrich in the draft. And if Ben Gordon came out he'd go ahead of him as well.

Moe Williams proved he can't lead a team this season. His coach actually put him at the 2 guard for this very reason, so how is he more of a PG prospect than Ben Gordon - who did a great job at the point when Brown went out?

And Ridnour is not quick at all with the ball. He's a good ballhandler, but speed's not a word you use to describe his game. Maybe you meant craftiness.

BTW, how have you not seen Jameer Nelson? Isn't this his 3rd straight year leading his team to the tourney?


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

Ok I'm saying Moe Williams will probably be better when it is all said and done. I don't really give a damn where they get drafted, because in the end no one cares! 

Ben Gordon is a great scorer, he is really athletic, so I don't think he would be the best PG in the world. I think he will play SG, or at least play like one. 

And in terms of ball handling, passing, penetration Moe Williams is just as good so I would quit underranking him. He is not the nucleus of the Tide's problem, so don't underrate him because of a college basketball teams failures this season.




> how have you not seen Jameer Nelson


 Well I'm not exactly on the East coast so they don't show his tourney games that much. I have seen him but not lately...


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## LionsFan01 (Aug 7, 2002)

STEVE BLAKE STEVE BLAKE STEVE BLAKE

Flat out the best passer in the country, doesn't shoot enough but he takes the big shots at the end of the game when he's needed and makes most of them, and he makes his teammates better. Why is he not on any of your lists? I see people like Kirk Hinrich who really aren't PG's but not Blake? I guess he'll have to win another championship to get some recognition.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LionsFan01</b>!
> STEVE BLAKE STEVE BLAKE STEVE BLAKE
> 
> Flat out the best passer in the country, doesn't shoot enough but he takes the big shots at the end of the game when he's needed and makes most of them, and he makes his teammates better. Why is he not on any of your lists? I see people like Kirk Hinrich who really aren't PG's but not Blake? I guess he'll have to win another championship to get some recognition.


Its because hes not that good. Steve Blake right now is as good as hes going to be


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> Ok I'm saying Moe Williams will probably be better when it is all said and done. I don't really give a damn where they get drafted, because in the end no one cares!
> 
> Ben Gordon is a great scorer, he is really athletic, so I don't think he would be the best PG in the world. I think he will play SG, or at least play like one.
> ...


I totally agree with having Felton and Ford number one and two. Those two are arguably exchangable. The problem with your argument about Gordan is that you can say the same about Troy. At this point I would never take Troy over Gordan. Troy is much more of a SG than Gordan. I really like Chris Thomas and I have him 3rd on my list. He is like the next version of Mike Bibby. You say he is short and weak but he is 6' 0 175, Ford is 5' 11 165 and Mo is 6' 1 185. Not much difference. I think most of your list is fine and Zimmerman IS a great prospect. I think Gaines, Thomas, Ridnour are better than Mo from what I have seen. I don't think Ridnour is fast...I think you meant quick...Ridnour's dribbling ability allows him to be quick off the dribble. Like you I also wouldn't give up on Duhon. Duhon has great court vision and instincts. He might not be the scorer most thought he could have become and I must admit he was my #1 PG college prospect in preseason. You are dead on with Burks. I haven't seen him much but from what I have seen he is also a very solid prospect and like Banks a sleeper. As for the poster who mentioned Blake. I really like Blake but I don't see him succeeding better than players like Ford, Felton, Thomas, etc. in the pros but Blake deserves mention when arguing who are the top PGs in US college.:yes:


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## Wildcats (Mar 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigChris</b>!
> Moe Williams ain't going ahead of Reece Gaines or Hinrich in the draft.


Of course not, I don't think he'll go at all this year. That wasn't the question, though.



> And Ridnour is not quick at all with the ball. He's a good ballhandler, but speed's not a word you use to describe his game. Maybe you meant craftiness.


He's not fast, necessarily, but he plays a very up tempo game. It's one of the reasons he's somewhat turnover prone, actually.



> BTW, how have you not seen Jameer Nelson? Isn't this his 3rd straight year leading his team to the tourney?


St. Josephs isn't exactly a well known basketball program. Outside of the tourney games(where you'll only see bits and pieces, anyway), have they been shown *at all* on national television this year? Unless you live on the East Coast, it's probably pretty easy to have missed Nelson.


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## Wildcats (Mar 25, 2003)

I like Steve Blake a lot, but I think Maryland is going to be the last major stop in his professional basketball career. He might get a few looks, though. I'll be quite happy if he proves me wrong.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

> see people like Kirk Hinrich who really aren't PG's


Have you ever seen Kirk Hinrich play? He's as pure a PG as you will find.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

What I'm I thinking!

*Where is Jason Gardner!*


That kid can flat out lead a team! He is a awesome competitor, very solid with the ball, does not turn it over, does not shoot bad shots and does not make mistakes. He can penetrate the lane better in the NBA probably than in college, and he has the ability to shoot form NBA range already. He is just a great leader and would be a wonderful backup PG for a team that just needs a leader at that position. He would be a great spark plug off the bench. He really is a diamond in the ruff, and probably will be picked in the 2nd but he can play ball.

How can no one bring him up?


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> What I'm I thinking!
> 
> *Where is Jason Gardner!*
> ...



Because Jason Gardner doesn't deserve to be brought up. 

Gardner won't even make an NBA team.


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## Wildcats (Mar 25, 2003)

I don't know....

I think it really depends on how well he plays in the rest of the tourney, and how far Arizona goes. A comparison to Juan Dixon probably isn't fair, since Dixon is a great defender and is slightly bigger, but the situation is the same. Many wrote him off as a "great college player, and not much else", until he dominated the final four and championship game.


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## RangerC (Sep 25, 2002)

Jason Gardner is garbage. He's a 5-9 2 guard with marginal quickness. That won't get it done in the NBA. There's a reason why no one has him listed on a mock. 2 years ago he was apparently the WORST player in all the predraft camps. I thought it was hilarious when he was announced as 'coming back for his senior season.' Where else was he going to go?

Here's a take on Gardner (taken from a review of WC NBA prospects):

_Jason Gardner, PG, Arizona

The skinny: He made a good decision not to turn pro two years ago, but he hasn't helped his stock. He's 5-8 and doesn't have the quickness to compensate for it, especially in a league where undersized guards (Khalid El-Amin, Omar Cook) don't have a good track record of late.

Scout III: "If none of the (underclassmen) point guards come out, maybe he goes in the second round. I'm not a Gardner fan."

Scout II: "For a guy who's as good a college player as he is and he's a little guy, you'd think he'd be jet quick and could break down defenses, but he has trouble with that. I hate to sound altruistic, but not everybody can play in the NBA -- he's got his degree and has had a lot of success in college."
_


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

True he is not a great prospect because of his size. But what he does have is competitiveness, and that along with his leadership abilities could help him find a away on to a team. Don't count him out just yet.


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## Springsteen (Jan 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>OZZY</b>!
> True he is not a great prospect because of his size. But what he does have is competitiveness, and that along with his leadership abilities could help him find a away on to a team. Don't count him out just yet.


As much as a competitor as you may be, you still have to be on the court for this to matter. Gardner doen't have the skills, physically (his height) and fundamentally (his jumpshot, while slightly improved this year, still isn't near as good as it would have to be). So really, he could be as competitive as he wants, but from the bench it wouldn't matter. And, a rookie...well, how much are they depended on for leadership. For these attributes to be of any importance, he would have to play for a few years first...before veterans would take him seriously, and that wont happen. 


At best, he'll end up like career towel waver Mateen Cleaves. I think Cleaves is a decent comparison when looking at college careers.

More likely scenario, is that he doesn't get drafted, and gets cut after being invited to a camp. He's just not good.

Leadership or competitiveness aside (which is something which is pretty much always said about a guy who stays 4 years...like Dahntay Jones).

Also, Arizona runs a system where the ball pretty much always goes through their point forward Walton. If Gardner was such a great PG prospect, you'd expect him to be the prime assist man, and the leader on offense.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

The kid is a winner, simple as that. And he has a much, much better offensive game compared to Cleaves. Cleaves is phyisically bigger but Gardner is quicker and has more offensive abilties. But I still say Gardner runs the show in Arizona, if he went out the Wildcats would be nothing, and Walton would not be as good as he is.

Gardner does not turn the ball over that much. He has a good handle, he is a ok defender for his size. He gets in the paint and can grab a few rebounds as well. He is just in control, and his leadership abilities make up for his lack of overall talent. Sure he will not be great in the NBA but how could he not be a backup on a NBA team. Sure some PG's have more ability but his leadership is very rare in the NBA. 

And I would not say leadership and competitiveness is just for 4 year players. Either you have it or you don't simple as that.


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## Springsteen (Jan 24, 2003)

I think you are missing the point. Leadership is based on respect.

As a rookie, especially a second round draft pick, you really aren't going to command a lot of respect from your teammates. As I mentioned, you wont get any playing time either. So you wont be earning any respect.

Seriously, leadership is a great quality, but only if you have some sort of talent to back it up. In Gardners' case, even by your own admission is an okay defender. He'd get dominated by taller guards. In the NBA, he'd be a defensive liability. No amount of toughness can make up for that. 

Cleaves was a better pro prospect and look what happened to him. I think you'd be hard pressed to say that Gardner was a better leader, and a better competitor. Yes, Gardner was a better scorer...but Cleaves was a better overal PG. He was good with the ball, he played tenacious d, and he could take it to the hole. As much 'o' as Gardner may have, your back up PG is supposed to come in, under control and play good d. It's really quite simple. He's not supposed to come out and drop all kinds of shots from everywhere (which is hard to imagine, because I stand by my earlier claim that his jumpshot is suspect). 

But really, I don't care if he has Alexander the Great leadership capabilities, they can't compensate for his overall game. Nor does it make any sense to think that it would.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

How about Jarrett Jack? 3 years playing next to Chris Bosh will make him a very rich man in a couple of years....


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## RapsFan (Feb 4, 2003)

Do you think Blake Stepp could get drafted?


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## Pat_Garner (Mar 30, 2003)

the original list is retarded. 
1)Ford -- slim to none chance of entering draft
2)Ridnour -- lots of people are projecting him in the lottery
3)Hinrich -- proved his ability to lead a break and make decisions
4)Marcus Banks -- I wish this guy played in a better conference


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## RapsFan (Feb 4, 2003)

I'm not saying he's a top 10 pg, probably closer top 50 but what about Andrew Toole of Penn? He probably won't be drafted but could he be signed by a team who needs a backup pg? He has the size, he's 6'4. He played very well against Ok St. and he seemed to like push the ball up the floor and the get the offense started. He also is a decenet shooter. 45% from 2's and 40% from 3's plus 83% ft shooter.


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