# Game Thread: Monday Jan. 2 vs Sonics



## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

<center>























*Indiana Pacers (15-12) - Seattle Sonics (13-16)*

*Time*: 7:00 Eastern
*Venue*: Conseco Fieldhouse
*TV*: FSNMW
*Radio*: WIBC 1070










*Probable Starting Lineup*:





































Anthony Johnson | Sarunas Jaskevicius | Stephen Jackson | Jermaine O'Neal | Jeff Foster

*Key Reserves:*























Austin Croshere | Danny Granger | Freddie Jones











*Probable Starting Lineup:*





































Damien Wilkins | Ray Allen | Rashard Lewis | Reggie Evans | Vitaly Potapenko

*Key Reserves:*























Nick Collison | Vladimir Radmanovic | Ronald Murray

*Indiana Pacers**
Home: 9-4
Road: 6-8
Overall: 15-12 
4th in Central, 6th in Eastern, 11th in NBA

Seattle Sonics
Home: 8-9
Road: 5-7
Overall: 13-16 
4th in Northwest, 11th in West, 18th in NBA*








*Who's Hot?*







</center>








- 23 ppg in last 2 games








- 30.3 ppg in last 3 games

*Injury Report*

*Pacers-*








- Knee 







- Wrist/Inactive







- Torn Bicep 

*Sonics-*








- Suspended 


<center>*Pacers Fan's Key Matchup*:

Anthony Johnson/Freddie Jones/Stephen Jackson vs Ray Allen

Pacers 92
Sonics 83


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## Gonzo (Oct 14, 2004)

Pacers- 95
Sonics- 87


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## Banjoriddim (Aug 14, 2004)

Pacers 89
Sonics 84


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## DJMD (Nov 20, 2004)

Need a win badly!!!!

Pacers 103
Sonics 94


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## Pacersthebest (Aug 6, 2005)

A win, this time it's true 

Pacers win: 85-88


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## bobsuralover (Apr 28, 2005)

Ummm... just to say, Fortson served his second suspended game on what, saturday. So he isnt suspended anymore. He probably will be playing this game.


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## rock747 (Aug 3, 2004)

I hope they find a way to win one....

Pacers 92

Sonics 87


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## Auggie (Mar 7, 2004)

hell no we aint losing 5 in a row!

pacers 90
sonics 78


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## myELFboy (Jun 28, 2005)

Danny isn't suspended anymore. Luke might come off the bench (I hope) over Flip Murray, but who knows what Weiss does.

The Sonics should win---with no Artest, no O'Neal, no Tinsley? I'll be dissapointed if they can't pull this off.


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## jermaine7fan (Aug 19, 2005)

^^^O'Neal should be playing


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## Gonzo (Oct 14, 2004)

myELFboy said:


> The Sonics should win---with no Artest, no O'Neal, no Tinsley? I'll be dissapointed if they can't pull this off.


No O'Neal? He didn't start, but he played in our last game vs. the Raptors. He didn't even look that hurt, unless it hurts to box out and rebound.


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## thekid (Apr 3, 2003)

O'Neal has been diagnosed with pneumonia.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

24-8 Indy with 5 minutes still left in the first. Carlisle brought in the bench quickly.


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## Gonzo (Oct 14, 2004)

24-8 Pacers lead with 5:10 to go in the first quarter. I just tuned in not too long ago.


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

We're destroying them, but can we actually keep it up now...




*Go PaCeRs!!!!*


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## Gonzo (Oct 14, 2004)

Jackson hits his second three in a row. He now has 13 points in the 1st.


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## Gonzo (Oct 14, 2004)

Freddie hits a 3. 33-13 with 3:30 left.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

33-13 now with 3 minutes left. Wow.


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## Gonzo (Oct 14, 2004)

Our defensive rebound still sucks, we just let Reggie Evans get an offensive rebound and put it back with no trouble. 

33-17 with about 2:45 left in the first.


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## Gonzo (Oct 14, 2004)

Saras hits a 3! Finally.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

Very nice shot by Saras. He hasn't been very confident lately, but that was almost a Jackson-esque shot.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

Carlisle is already playing Gill. Has everyone played so far in the 1st quarter?


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

Larry Legend said:


> Saras hits a 3!



About time Runi, about time... :clap: :clap: ....




*Go PaCeRs!!!!*


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

SJax and AJ holding it down for sure.

As one of the lone supporters of AJ, I'm happy to see him with 6 points and 4 assists early.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

Austin Croshere with a nice Kevin McHale-type move.

49-35 Pacers with under 7 minutes left in the half.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

StephenJackson said:


> SJax and AJ holding it down for sure.
> 
> As one of the lone supporters of AJ, I'm happy to see him with 6 points and 4 assists early.


Are you trying to have the opposite opinion of me on everything?

Flip and Freddie are both having nice games off the bench.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

Pacers Fan said:


> Are you trying to have the opposite opinion of me on everything?
> 
> Flip and Freddie are both having nice games off the bench.



Haha yes, that's been the plan all along. No, I am just an ultra-pacer loyalist. If you are in a Pacers uniform and you respect the uniform and you go out there and give it your best, I'm gonna love you. AJ is not a great PG in that he can't handle defensive pressure that well, but he is a great veteran, a strong leader in the locker room, and he can be very clutch for us. I've got no beef at all with him.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

63-47 Indy at the end of the half. We just can't put the game away.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

StephenJackson said:


> If you are in a Pacers uniform and you respect the uniform and you go out there and *give it your best*, I'm gonna love you.


Then why do you like Stephen Jackson and Jermaine O'Neal?


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## Banjoriddim (Aug 14, 2004)

I hope they can keep the pace and we can celebrate.


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## absolutebest (Jun 10, 2002)

Pacers Fan said:


> Then why do you like Stephen Jackson and Jermaine O'Neal?


I disagree here. These guys want to win. I just think they are going through a rough stretch right now. Plus, we all know that J.O. is slightly injury-prone.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

absolutebest said:


> I disagree here. These guys want to win. I just think they are going through a rough stretch right now. Plus, we all know that J.O. is slightly injury-prone.


I'm not questioning their will to win. I'm questioning their effort. Jackson often stands around on offense and doesn't give effort on defense, while Jermaine often settles for jump shots, and doesn't give too much defensive effort. Not to mention that he often doesn't try on rebounds.


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## absolutebest (Jun 10, 2002)

Pacers Fan said:


> I'm not questioning their will to win. I'm questioning their effort. Jackson often stands around on offense and doesn't give effort on defense, while Jermaine often settles for jump shots, and doesn't give too much defensive effort. Not to mention that he often doesn't try on rebounds.


Yeah. I can see your points. However, I think J.O. is just out of position and is trying to stay in one piece. We really need Foster back at full strength to take some pressure off of Jermaine on the boards. He carries a big enough load being the primary scorer and shot blocker. As far as Jack standing around, a big part of that is due to the way Carlisle micro-manages the offense. I do think they could play harder at times, though.


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## Gonzo (Oct 14, 2004)

Reply to the argument about Jermaine and Jackson's effort:

During the Raptors game last Friday, I noticed that Jackson was cherry picking. I don't call that effort.


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## absolutebest (Jun 10, 2002)

I'm not watching the game, but I've noticed that Freddie has 15 points in 15 minutes. Why hasn't he played more?


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

Jermaine is my favorite basketball player, nothing will ever change that. Anyone who questions his will to win is crazy. SJax I also love, naturally, because he is an emotionaly player much like myself. They are our big two for the time being, and I've got nothing but love.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

absolutebest said:


> Yeah. I can see your points. However, I think J.O. is just out of position and is trying to stay in one piece. We really need Foster back at full strength to take some pressure off of Jermaine on the boards.


I'm not just talking about this season. He's been like this ever since he became a star.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

Freddie with a 3 at the end of the 3rd quarter. He's probably the best player on our team at that.


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## absolutebest (Jun 10, 2002)

Pacers Fan said:


> Freddie with a 3 at the end of the 3rd quarter. He's probably the best player on our team at that.


It seems like he's the best player on our team at a lot of things tonight. I'm super high on him at the moment, if it isn't plainly obvious by now.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

Final Score: 115-96 Pacers

Pacers Fan- 36
Larry Legend- 29
Banjoriddim- 36
DJMD- 14
Pacersthebest- 38
rock747- 32
Indystarza- 43

Winner- DJMD


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## justasking? (Oct 1, 2005)

Congratulations on the win!!! :cheers:


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

justasking? said:


> Congratulations on the win!!! :cheers:



Thanks doggy...it feels good to actually have a good night for a change....




*Go PaCeRs!!!!*


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## justasking? (Oct 1, 2005)

PaCeRhOLiC said:


> Thanks doggy...it feels good to actually have a good night for a change....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know what you mean PaCeRhOLiC. Its tough to lose.. and consecutive ones are brutal. But good teams bounce back from bad times. I consider your team to be a very strong team. Things just went astray with all the problems your team faced recently. Your team played well tonight. You deserved that win. So I hope this win would be the start of good things for you guys. :cheers:


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## rock747 (Aug 3, 2004)

Pacers Fan said:


> I'm not just talking about this season. He's been like this ever since he became a star.



I agree. 

Also I liked the way the Pacers played tonight, entertaining, fast paced, high scoring and high effort team basketball. When Jermaine's in the line up they aren't able to do this.


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

I couldn't hear the game online because I had to go out, but I saw the highlights on NBA TV, and we looked great tonight, alot of 3's that actually went in for a change...

4 game losing streak no more :clap: ...



*Go PaCeRs!!!!*


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

rock747 said:


> I liked the way the Pacers played tonight, entertaining, fast paced, high scoring and high effort team basketball. When Jermaine's in the line up they aren't able to do this.



Yeah no doubt, but remember shots are not always going to fall down, so it's a must to have a post presence...



*Go PaCeRs!!!!*


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## rock747 (Aug 3, 2004)

PaCeRhOLiC said:


> Yeah no doubt, but remember shots are not always going to fall down, so it's a must to have a post presence...
> 
> 
> 
> *Go PaCeRs!!!!*



True, but half the shots Jermaine takes are jump shots anyway.


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## absolutebest (Jun 10, 2002)

rock747 said:


> True, but half the shots Jermaine takes are jump shots anyway.


He's got a nice touch and he draws the opposition's better post defenders outside. Plus, his first step is damn near unguardable by any big man. Maybe tonight showed Carlisle that he needs to open it up and run more now that Ronnie is gone, but we need Jermauine, too. Big time.


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## Pacersthebest (Aug 6, 2005)

Very good win ! :banana:


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## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

Pacersthebest said:


> Very good win ! :banana:



Finally...:cheers:...



*Go PaCeRs!!!!!*


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## Auggie (Mar 7, 2004)

we are a weird team :banana:


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

Pacers Fan said:


> I'm not questioning their will to win. I'm questioning their effort. Jackson often stands around on offense and doesn't give effort on defense, while Jermaine often settles for jump shots, and doesn't give too much defensive effort. Not to mention that he often doesn't try on rebounds.


Everybody is always knocking JO for his rebounding when he is averaging 10 boards per game. 

And his 2.3 blocks per game isn't anything to scoff at either.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

StephenJackson said:


> Everybody is always knocking JO for his rebounding when he is averaging 10 boards per game.


I have no clue how JO gets 10 boards per game. The same with Brad Miller when he was here. He was never a good rebounder, but he and JO both grabbed around 10 a game. Indiana hasn't been a good shooting team in the past few years, and we've been very good defensively, so O'Neal has more opportunities to grab offensive and defensive boards than a player on a normal team would. The sad part about JO is that he could be one of the league's best rebounders if he'd learn to box out, time, and use muscle.



> And his 2.3 blocks per game isn't anything to scoff at either.


Considering those blocks come twice a game from Jermaine leaving his man to attempt to block a shot, I'd rather him play defense. Having an enforcer is nice, but JO is too afraid of fouls, yet still manages to go for blocks rather than playing defense.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

Pacers Fan said:


> I have no clue how JO gets 10 boards per game. The same with Brad Miller when he was here. He was never a good rebounder, but he and JO both grabbed around 10 a game. Indiana hasn't been a good shooting team in the past few years, and we've been very good defensively, so O'Neal has more opportunities to grab offensive and defensive boards than a player on a normal team would. The sad part about JO is that he could be one of the league's best rebounders if he'd learn to box out, time, and use muscle.


Well, you may not know how he gets them, but the bottom line is that he gets them. If he were at 8.8 rpg like last season, then yeah I would be on his case too. But as long as he is at 10 or more per game, he's fine in my books.





> Considering those blocks come twice a game from Jermaine leaving his man to attempt to block a shot, I'd rather him play defense. Having an enforcer is nice, but JO is too afraid of fouls, yet still manages to go for blocks rather than playing defense.


He's also had some nice games of late where he'd send back 5 a game. I don't think that you are really weighing in the fact that he is playing out of position and has been playing alongside a very thin frontline.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

StephenJackson said:


> Well, you may not know how he gets them, but the bottom line is that he gets them. If he were at 8.8 rpg like last season, then yeah I would be on his case too. But as long as he is at 10 or more per game, he's fine in my books.


I don't think you understand how little difference 8.8 and 10 have. It's basically just one missed shot that bounces to JO. Have you ever wondered why JO is inconsistent at rebounding? It's because he's not very talented at it. If our opponent, or even the Pacers, are shooting poorly, of course he's going to grab some rebounds. What I'm trying t o say is that JO's rebounds look better because of the team he plays on, when he really isn't skilled at rebounding and doesn't try very often. He could be a great rebounder if he'd just learn the fundamentals.



> I don't think that you are really weighing in the fact that he is playing out of position and has been playing alongside a very thin frontline.


Not having Ron there obviously means that more wings enter JO's territory, but I'm still talking about his last few years in general.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

Pacers Fan said:


> I don't think you understand how little difference 8.8 and 10 have. It's basically just one missed shot that bounces to JO. Have you ever wondered why JO is inconsistent at rebounding? It's because he's not very talented at it. If our opponent, or even the Pacers, are shooting poorly, of course he's going to grab some rebounds. What I'm trying t o say is that JO's rebounds look better because of the team he plays on, when he really isn't skilled at rebounding and doesn't try very often. He could be a great rebounder if he'd just learn the fundamentals.


While the 1.2 rpg difference may not seem like a big difference, it is still the difference between him being a 20/10 player or not one. And you are right, he isn't a super-talented rebounder, but given then fact that the league leader is at 12.9 rpg, and JO is at 10 rpg as a 'not good rebounder,' then hey...good news for us. Anytime a bad rebounder can get 10 rpg, things are looking good. And to some extent, I think you are exaggerating on his lack of rebounding talent. His season high so far is 18, which is 3 short of his career high.

He is 9th in the league in defensive rebounds per game, 10th in the league in total rebounds per game, and 9th in the league in double doubles. Those aren't outstanding numbers, but they certainly aren't the numbers of a 'bad' rebounder. And I know that you are going to say "Well, he can still get better." Which may be the case, but also keep in mind that he is only one man and that no basketball player is perfect in every category. JO is a great all-around player.





> Not having Ron there obviously means that more wings enter JO's territory, but I'm still talking about his last few years in general.


Well, if you are judging his abilities by his performance last season, you are certainly reaching given all of the injuries that he suffered and attempted to play through.

And in 03-04 he was at 20 ppg, 10 rpg, and 2.55 bpg.

In 02-03 he was at 20.8 ppg, 10.3 rpg, and 2.3 bpg.

Those don't look like shabby numbers to me.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

StephenJackson said:


> While the 1.2 rpg difference may not seem like a big difference, it is still the difference between him being a 20/10 player or not one.


That's not much of a point. He'd just be a 20/9 player, then.



> And you are right, he isn't a super-talented rebounder, but given then fact that the league leader is at 12.9 rpg, and JO is at 10 rpg as a 'not good rebounder,' then hey...good news for us.


My problem is that if JO could get some lessons from Charles Barkley, he could average 13/game.



> Anytime a bad rebounder can get 10 rpg, things are looking good.


The Pacers aren't looking too bright currently.



> And to some extent, I think you are exaggerating on his lack of rebounding talent. His season high so far is 18, which is 3 short of his career high.


Rebounding stats really don't mean anything, especially for one game. The Bobcats shot 37.6% for that game, which is why he was able to grab 18.



> Those aren't outstanding numbers, but they certainly aren't the numbers of a 'bad' rebounder.


You're missing my point. JO has a nice average because he plays in Indy. He really has no rebounding skill whatsoever. He's simply an athlete who can get away with over-the-back fouls.



> JO is a great all-around player.


Except his defense, lack of strength, lack of going inside, passing, being a good #1 option, and his inconsistencies.



> Well, if you are judging his abilities by his performance last season, you are certainly reaching given all of the injuries that he suffered and attempted to play through.


The shoulder injury was all that really affected him, and he didn't play many games with it during the regular season.



> And in 03-04 he was at 20 ppg, 10 rpg, and 2.55 bpg.
> 
> In 02-03 he was at 20.8 ppg, 10.3 rpg, and 2.3 bpg.
> 
> Those don't look like shabby numbers to me.


And that's all they are: Numbers.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

Pacers Fan said:


> You're missing my point. JO has a nice average because he plays in Indy. He really has no rebounding skill whatsoever. He's simply an athlete who can get away with over-the-back fouls.


No rebounding skills whatsoever? Highly doubtful.





> Except his defense, lack of strength, lack of going inside, passing, being a good #1 option, and his inconsistencies.


In your opinion, yes. You seem to think that there is only one type of bigman...the ultimate rebounding, super strong, always going to power his way to the hole type bigman. Unfortunately, that's not the case. There are also finesse type bigmen, and bigmen who actually have more skills then simply being a Shaq-like player. And when you are talking about inconsistancies, are you talking about his shooting percentage? Because it is at an all time high this year and has been rising every year.




> And that's all they are: Numbers.


While numbers may be numbers, they certainly mean something. Anyone who doubts the skills of a 22/10/2.3bpg player is certainly stretching to find faults.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

StephenJackson said:


> No rebounding skills whatsoever? Highly doubtful.


Of course, that's an exaggeration, but almost anyone who had his height and vertical would be able to grab at least 8 per game in his minutes on the Pacers.



> You seem to think that there is only one type of bigman...the ultimate rebounding, super strong, always going to power his way to the hole type bigman.


I appreciate finesse more than you realize. I don't appreciate 80% of Jermaine's shots being jumpers. We have no low post presence with him taking jumpers and Ron on the inactive list. Next in line would be Tinsley. Yes, Tinsley is one of our best post players. Pathetic? Yes.



> And when you are talking about inconsistancies, are you talking about his shooting percentage? Because it is at an all time high this year and has been rising every year.


No. His shooting percentage is never going to be great because of the amount of jumpers he takes. It'd help the tam more if he'd drive 60% of the time, and shoot jumpers 40% of the time, instead of 20/80, like how it us now. At least it's up now from the 43% a few years ago. I can tell he's improved his jumper a lot.



> While numbers may be numbers, they certainly mean something. Anyone who doubts the skills of a 22/10/2.3bpg player is certainly stretching to find faults.


I'm not stretching at all. His faults are easy to find. 

Let's just say I'd rather have an Elton Brand-type player on the Pacers than Dirk Nowitzki with more athleticism, better shot blocking, worse handling, worse passing, and a worse shot.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

Pacers Fan said:


> I'm not stretching at all. His faults are easy to find.
> 
> Let's just say I'd rather have an Elton Brand-type player on the Pacers than Dirk Nowitzki with more athleticism, better shot blocking, worse handling, worse passing, and a worse shot.


Well, I reckon that's your opinion, and I can't knock you for that. And as for me, I'll take JO over Brand and keep it that way. I'm not from Indy, so I'm not the typical Pacer fan I guess. I was brought up watching Reggie Miller and loving his play so much that I became a die hard Pacer fan. I always wondered what would happen when he retired, whether or not I would still love the Pacers as much. And the answer is that yes, I do. Why? Because in 2000 we were able to acquire Jermaine O'Neal. The new face of the franchise, and the new reason why I fell in love with the Pacers again. I'll always be a fan of JO 100% no matter what.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

StephenJackson said:


> Well, I reckon that's your opinion, and I can't knock you for that.


Feel free.



> I'm not from Indy, so I'm not the typical Pacer fan I guess.


Neither am I. No Pacers fan is typical. What's great is how we all have different visions for the team and can have discussions like this.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

Pacers Fan said:


> Feel free.


You know I love you Pacers Fan, and I'll never knock on you. I'll disagree with you(often), but I won't knock on you.





> Neither am I. No Pacers fan is typical. What's great is how we all have different visions for the team and can have discussions like this.


Yes sir, you are correct. And these discussions make my day at work fly by!


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## Gonzo (Oct 14, 2004)

StephenJackson said:


> Everybody is always knocking JO for his rebounding when he is averaging 10 boards per game.


They would be a whole lot easier to get if he would box out once in a while. A lot of them he just barely saves.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

Pacers Fan said:


> And that's all they are: Numbers.




Numbers are an excellent indication of how good an NBA player is. Not necessarily the end-all, but a good start.


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## JayRedd (Jan 2, 2006)

But a more important thing than numbers is reality. And while I am a really big fan of JO's game, it is a little depressing to imagine how much better he could be. Basically, what we have as our franchise player is a poor man's KG. My knock on KG--and the reason why I have never held him in quite the same esteem that many other NBA pundits do (as in, not quite on the Duncan/Shaq/Kobe level)--is that when the game is on the line and the Wolves need to go to him late in the 4th for a "must-have" bucket, he's most likely going to get the ball in the high-post, turn and face, make a move and end up with a fadeaway jumper from 12 feet. And while this is a pretty good shot for him, it doesn't enstill the same fear as Duncan with his back to the basket or Kobe/DWade/AI/TMac's unstoppable ability to get into the lane and get off a shot or get fouled. Basically, KG can get a good shot off, but it's still a relative 50-50 chance that he'll hit it. 

JO gives us the same thing. In the 1st/2nd/3rd Quarter, he'll break people off the dribble and get to the rim, or hit a little jump hook in the lane, or beast a defender with a drop step dunk, or dunk a putback rebound to get his points. But with 45 seconds left and we're down two and NEED a bucket, he gets the ball halfway up the lane, dribbles a few times and pulls the trigger from 8-15 feet more often than not. And, while this is probably a more reliable way to try and win than in the past with a Reggie Miller three (although I fell in love with the Pacers for just this reason), I'd still have a helluva lot more confidence if we could run a clear-out or a pick-and-roll for a TMac-type instead.

And the lack of this "killer instinct" type of scorer doesn't show up in the regular season half as much as in a 7-game series. If you don't think so, look at KG's career in the playoffs. But what truly makes KG an undeniable "all-time great" caliber player in this league (something that JO falls just short of) is that, along with the freakish athletic ability/quickness/versility he has for his size, he also leaves it all on the court every night, which makes it a lot easier to overlook his natural, late-game scoring shortfalls. I mean, The Kid boxes out everytime down the court, runs on the break relentlessly, fights for proper rebounding position, makes a point of getting to every loose ball, plays great D on his man or in the help side. I mean, he really puts a Ben Wallace/Dennis Rodman effort into defending and rebounding--even while scoring 20 a game. And the result is 13+ rpg each of the last three years, and many people considering him the best player in the league even though he's made it out of the first round of the playoffs a grand total of once out of eight years.

While JO's athletic ability isn't quite on the KG level, he is still a phenomenon that can sky above lesser athletes to the tune of 10 rpg on sheer "I can jump higher and quicker than you mere mortals" ability. But if he truly put his all into rebounding and playing defense like KG does on the nightly, I think he could be well over 12 per game. His offense and PPG may also suffer as a result of expending this extra energy, but, as any player that has ever worn a pair of basketball shoes, he would surely be a better player if he just put out more effort on a consistent basis.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

PacersguyUSA said:


> Numbers are an excellent indication of how good an NBA player is. Not necessarily the end-all, but a good start.


Yeah, a start, but numbers shouldn't be the entire point.



> While JO's athletic ability isn't quite on the KG level, he is still a phenomenon that can sky above lesser athletes to the tune of 10 rpg on sheer "I can jump higher and quicker than you mere mortals" ability. But if he truly put his all into rebounding and playing defense like KG does on the nightly, I think he could be well over 12 per game. His offense and PPG may also suffer as a result of expending this extra energy, but, as any player that has ever worn a pair of basketball shoes, he would surely be a better player if he just put out more effort on a consistent basis.


Exactly.


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## Pacersthebest (Aug 6, 2005)

My brother is Seattle fan, so I had a good day :biggrin:


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