# Expansion Draft



## Flava D (Sep 27, 2003)

I've been thinking about how the Celtics will be affected by the upcoming expansion draft (for the new Charlotte Bobcats) and it looks like we could face losing one of our young guns. If (as far as I know) we can only protect 7 players on the roster, who do you leave available? I'm not sure how upcoming free agents figure in (like eric williams) but for the sake of argument lets say we can only protect 7 guys on this team, who do you hold onto?

Here's mine:
Pierce - No brainer
Banks - Too much has been invested in him not to hold onto him and let him develop
LaFrenz - No way we let him go after the Walker deal
Jones - I think the sky is the limmit for this guy, could be the starting 3 in the near future
Perkins - A big man who can run the floor, rebound and play a little post game at age 18 is a rarity. This kid could be something special
Brown - This was a tough call, but he's a great defender and if he ever learns the offense could be a top 30 player in the league.
Williams - as far as flat out hustle goes, he's the best on the team. he has the most heart of any guy 

so that leaves: baker, battie, james, walter, hunter, mills, welsch, and blount.... As well as baker is playing, his contract off the books would be great. Welsch is an X factor here as it was a tough call between him and EWill, I guess wait and see with him....

I'd love to hear what everyone else thinks!


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

Baker was the obvious choice for leaving upprotected before the season due to his poor season sast year and his huge salary.

Based on what is happening with Vin so far I would not expect Boston to leave him unprotected. I think that a trade before the end of the season will change the look of the top 7 on this team.

Williams, Battie and even Kedrick Brown are all possible traded players. Actually only Paul Pierce is untouchable.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

Williams will be a free agent so he won't be protected unless he is resigned prior to the expansion draft.


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## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Flava D</b>!
> I've been thinking about how the Celtics will be affected by the upcoming expansion draft (for the new Charlotte Bobcats) and it looks like we could face losing one of our young guns. If (as far as I know) we can only protect 7 players on the roster, who do you leave available? I'm not sure how upcoming free agents figure in (like eric williams) but for the sake of argument lets say we can only protect 7 guys on this team, who do you hold onto?
> 
> Here's mine:
> ...


take off brown and williams and replace with hunter and baker and you've got it


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Let's have this discussion in April*

It is way too early. Some of these players won't even be here. We are wasting our breath.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Kiss Welsch goodbye then.


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## jdg (Jun 13, 2003)

I think, even if Vinny boy keeps up his numbers, he could still be left unprotected. He is still not playing up to his contract, so Charlotte prolly wouldn't take him. Also, he is getting old and isn't exactly known as a leader/role model. Not a good thing for an expansion team.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

You can keep 8 players:

1) Paul Pierce
2) Vin Baker (Good or not, he still has 15 million off the books)
3) Tony Battie
4) Kedrick Brown
5) Jumaine Jones
6) Jiri Welsch
7) Marcus Banks
8) Kendrick Perkins

Why we won't protect:
Raef LaFrentz...he's got a 6 year contract remaining, belive me no one will take him.

Chris Mills...nuff said

Eric Williams...FA

Walter McCarty...sorry, but teams won't be building around Walter McCarty

Mark Blount...see above

Brandon Hunter...see above

Mike James...I dunno, I like him...but the chances of someone taking him aren't that good...


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## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> You can keep 8 players:
> 
> 1) Paul Pierce
> ...


i like this better. Switch Brown with Hunter and you've got it, at least how I predict it will turn out by the end of the season. At some point we are all going to have to admit that Kedrick Brown is a bust.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PatBateman</b>!
> 
> 
> i like this better. Switch Brown with Hunter and you've got it, at least how I predict it will turn out by the end of the season. At some point we are all going to have to admit that Kedrick Brown is a bust.


Unless Hunter really steps up, we won't protect a #56 instead of a #11 overall pick. I think you are too high on Hunter...or maybe I'm too low on him....but he's on the IL, so he won't be helping us much there, well only in practice but thats a different story....


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## ThereisnoIinteam3 (Apr 19, 2003)

I am sure the Celtics could pick up several players who could average Vin Bakers points and rebounds for a lot less money if they left him off the protected list but what do I know:laugh: 
(Just kidding. I don't know anything about the "list" so far.:laugh:


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## freakofnature (Mar 30, 2003)

Does the expansion draft take place before the college draft?


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Wasting our breath*

I honestly believe Ainge will make another move before the deadline. So let's wait until April; this is a total waste of time.


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

*Re: Wasting our breath*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> I honestly believe Ainge will make another move before the deadline. So let's wait until April; this is a total waste of time.








U R Right. It iz fun to taLk about, BUT........DaNNy BoY proLLy has somethin' up his sLeeve........


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Wasting our breath*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> I honestly believe Ainge will make another move before the deadline. So let's wait until April; this is a total waste of time.


He might have a move, but he's not gonna trade away 8 guys...


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## PetroToZoran (Jul 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>IQ</b>!
> Does the expansion draft take place before the college draft?


I believe it's going to be a few days before the draft.


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## w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y (Jul 14, 2002)

I will be like 2 weeks prior to the draft. If the roster stays the same I would keep...

Paul(obvious)
Raef(if he gets good minutes could be 20-10 guy)
Jumaine(good contract, good talent)
Waltah(again, good contract who is under-appreciated)
Welsch(good young talent)
Banks(future PG of this team)
James(great contract, and so far solid play)
Perkins(Project C)

Maybe

Hunter(he must develop rapidly during this season)

if he does then Raef comes off the list.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y</b>!
> I will be like 2 weeks prior to the draft. If the roster stays the same I would keep...
> 
> Paul(obvious)
> ...


James is a free agent after this season and Waltah is an inferior player, he won't be protected. He has no ability. Battie or Blount would be more likely to be protected, but one of them probably won't be here by the end of the season. Probably Battie.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

Obviously Pierce will be protected and Baker will be unprotected due to the size of his contract, even if he continues his excellent play. The C's could sign a premier free agent for that kind of money.

Other than that, it is just too soon to tell.

How will the expansion draft work? My understanding is that teams can only protect 7. But if someone from you roster is taken, can you then pull another guy back? One or two teams should not risk having mulpiple guys taken by Charlotte while other teams are untouched. I believe that is how it worked the last time.


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## WaltaaMcCarty (Oct 21, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> You can keep 8 players:
> 
> 1) Paul Pierce
> ...


Waltaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!


I believe Dainge signed James for 2 years....probably player/team option...



> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!


I thought it was 8 players....Baker has a smaller contract then Raef....


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## w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y (Jul 14, 2002)

*A LITTLE INFO*

i thought James was a 2 yr deal as well..
8 Players are untouchable, unless they are a restricted FA and if charlotte takes them they become unrestricted. Only one player per team can be selected. If charlotte is going to select a player that the team really wants to come back that team can compensate charlotte for the player.(i.e. with a pick or something but charlotte must agree.)


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

The C's currently have 15 players under contract. So, if 8 players can be protected then 7 will go unprotected.

1. Vin Baker-- makes too much money
2. Chris Mills -- obvious
3. Eric Williams (unless he agrees to a contract extension prior to the expansion draft)
4. Walter McCarty-- he's not playing well at all.
5. Tony Battie-- unless they have traded him by then.
6. Mike James-- Nice player, but expendable.
7. Brandon Hunter-- Obviously, Ainge and O'Brien do not think as highly of him as I do.

That would be my unprotected list today. Tomorrow I might have a different view.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

*Re: Wasting our breath*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> I honestly believe Ainge will make another move before the deadline. So let's wait until April; this is a total waste of time.


Then don't read it, it's a fun topic for the rest of us!

Ok for all who think Hunter should or will be protected please get a reality check. He won't be taken in the expansion draft, he's not even a bench player yet, please lets be realistic here and not COMPLETELY OVERATE our team. I know everyone loves Hunter but if I was a fan from another team I'd really laugh I mean he's never gonna be a star, if he works hard he may someday be a servicable role player. Keep it real.

Anyway, here is who I WISH they would protect but if there are no moves b4 then but I'm sure it won't go this way....
1. Paul Pierce - he's the franchise obviously
2. Vin Baker - They may not with his contract but I think he'll be a star again b4 this season is over.
3. Marcus Banks - I'm still not 100% sold on the kid but if he's got a chance at being as good as Ainge thinks we have to protect him.
4. Kendrick Perkins - He is our stud big man of the future.
5. Jumaine Jones - I think he's gonna be the starting SF soon and he's got game, they'd grab him if he was left unprotected.
6. Jiri Welsch - He's the one Ainge really wanted when he pulled the trigger so he's the one we will keep....and he's young and still has upside.
7. Tony Battie - We have to protect a veteran Center and as well as Blount is playing right now I still like Battie better but this may change as the season progresses.
8. Kedrick Brown - I don't necessarily think he's earned this protection and frankly he does not impress me so far unless we see many more games like the one against NJ but he makes the most sense here.

Not protected:
1. Chris Mills - we want no part of him
2. Mark Blount - they can't protect all the centers and he has a lesser chance of getting grabbed but it would hurt if he is.
3. Eric Williams - Free Agent
4. Mike James - Replaceable
5. Walter McCarty - this is not the offense for him
6. Raef Lafrents - His contract is horrific and so far he hasn't shown he's near worth it.
7. Brandon Hunter - please, no one would take him so he doesn't need to be protected, he hasn't proven anything in the league, yet. 

I kinda want them to take someone bc we need to clear roster spaces for next years draft picks and only EWill (who I hate to lose) and Chris Mills are done next year.


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## theBirdman (Jun 20, 2003)

Protected:
1. Paul Pierce -
2. Marcus Banks - our PG of the future?
3. Kendrick Perkins - our C of the future?
4. Jumaine Jones - I really like him. Can become an important player for this team.
5. Jiri Welsch - because of the hype and his potential we need to protect him.
6. Kedrick Brown - He is still young and can develop into a great player, especially defensive stopper.
7. Mark Blount - I like him better than Battie.
8. I would probably go with Baker or LaFrentz here, although because of their contracts I dont think the Bobcats would take any of them.

Not protected:
1. Chris Mills - 
2. Eric Williams - FA
3. Mike James - I like him, but I am not sure about his contract status. Does he have a team option next year and if so, what does that mean for expansion draft?
4. Walter McCarty - we dont need him
5. Tony Battie - He is just too injury prone. From Bobcats perspective taking him would be a gamble.
6. Brandon Hunter - If he wont get a chance to show what he can do this season, then Bobcats wont take him. If you dont know anything about the player there is no reason why you would take him!

Undecided:
1. Raef Lafrents - I am not a big fan of his. It depends on how he plays this season, but his contract might just scare everyone away!
2. Vin Baker - His contract is just too huge. And although he looks cured, it is tough to take a gable on a player with his past. And you never know how a change of team (town) would affect him. 

As a GM you also have to take into account what other teams are going to do. Who are they going to protect, how many PG,SG (players that play the same position) are going to be unprotected. For exemple, if you speculate that there are probably 5 players at a certain position who are better than your players, you can leave them unprotected, because there is a big chance that they are not going to be taken. Of course, it is all a big gamble!


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Expansion*

While it is too early to discuss which players we will protect, I think expansion is an opportunity for us, not anything to be afraid of. Obviously, you protect Pierce and all of your young studs and young role players. If the Bobcats want to eat a disastrous contract, they can. If not, we emerge unscathed.

Plus, Ainge can make deals with the Bobcats to get them to take certain guys. I think we are going to have cap space before next season. :yes:


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: Expansion*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Plus, Ainge can make deals with the Bobcats to get them to take certain guys. I think we are going to have cap space before next season. :yes:


Everyone is aware of the loophole permitting an expansion team to waive a selected player prior to the beginning of the season and not have that player's salary count against the cap. So there will be 28 other teams looking to unload overpaid players, and Ainge will have serious competition.

Besides, many people predicted that this sort of thing would happen this year with the Jazz, who are way below the cap. But it didn't happen.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Competition*

Oh, you're right, John, Danny will be competing against 28 other guys. And maybe we won't even want to do anything in that regard. But if we do, I trust Danny big time. Look what he has done with Jerry West, Jim Paxson, and Mark Cuban. I think Danny is pretty savvy in this regard.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

Well the Bobcats have some decisions to make. You can view players as liabilities but they are also assets. Do they take overpaid guys, cash and draft choices-- and then waive the players? If that happens, they won't be very good and may not be profitable for a few years. Or, they can take young promising guys and develop them. Every team will have them, e.g Brandon Hunter, Tamar Slay, Devin Brown, Udonis Haslem (although he may be playing his way onto the protected list), Luke Walton, and so on. Mix in those guys with 2-3 veterans and a good coach, and you could have a profitable team in a hurry.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Profitable*

Yes, I think they will be. Don't they have a new arena? There will be some excitement with the new franchise, for sure. And I love all the names you just mentioned. I wish we had a few of them. But I do love Brandon Hunter.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: Profitable*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Yes, I think they will be. Don't they have a new arena? There will be some excitement with the new franchise, for sure. And I love all the names you just mentioned. I wish we had a few of them. But I do love Brandon Hunter.


Willie Green is another name I would add to the list.

The fans in Charlotte turned on one owner and there is no guarantee that it won't happen again. North Carolina is ACC teritory, not NBA territory.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

A projected (by me) Bobcat starting 5 of:

C: Desagana Diop/Etan Thomas
PF: Danny Fortson/Brandon Hunter
SF: Udonis Haslem/Luke Walton
SG: Tamar Slay/Devin Brown
PG: Raymond Felton

wouldn't be bad in terms of potential.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*DeSagana Diop*

Isn't leaving Cleveland. Pick another center.


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: Re: Wasting our breath*



> Originally posted by <b>whiterhino</b>!
> 
> 
> Then don't read it, it's a fun topic for the rest of us!
> ...


I agree with what you say, in just about every way. However, I think LaFrentz will show his worth by the end of the season, as will Welsch. Giving up Raef will be tough, but Ainge would do it (if he does) because of the contract.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Ok, so the trade makes a few changes in my shuffle. 

1) Paul Pierce
2) Vin Baker (Good or not, he still has 15 million off the books)
3) Ricky Davis
4) James
5) Jumaine Jones
6) Jiri Welsch
7) Marcus Banks
8) Kendrick Perkins


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## w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y (Jul 14, 2002)

I like most of those but I take off James and replace him with Mihm or Blount. Both have favorable contracts and that gives us Baker,Blount or Mihm and Perkins inside and on the outside we have Pierce,Davis,Welsh,Banks, and Jones. Basically we keep the core of the guys we have and all are young!


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y</b>!
> I like most of those but I take off James and replace him with Mihm or Blount. Both have favorable contracts and that gives us Baker,Blount or Mihm and Perkins inside and on the outside we have Pierce,Davis,Welsh,Banks, and Jones. Basically we keep the core of the guys we have and all are young!


Mihm is a free agent, and people don't usually rebuild around Blount. Also if they take any of those we could ask for a 2nd....I think..


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> Mihm is a free agent.


Mihm is a restricted free agent. Big difference.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> Mihm is a restricted free agent. Big difference.


So RFA's have to be protected?


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

No, but they can keep him if they want. His status is not really a factor in the decision whether or not to protect him.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> Ok, so the trade makes a few changes in my shuffle.
> 
> 1) Paul Pierce
> ...


Pierce
Davis
Jiri
Banks
Vinnie
Kendrick
Mihm
James/Jones (Toss Up)


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## el_raulin (Jun 5, 2003)

My Take:

1) Pierce
2) Welsch
3) Banks
4) Perkins
5) Mihm
6) Davis
7) Blount
8) James (If he has an option for a second year (not sure) otherwise he is a FA) (McCarty in the case James is a FA).

---
Baker contract is just too big. No need to protect him.

Jumaine has not worked out. And the acquisition of Davis plus the play of Welsch have made him relatively expendable.

Blount has one year remaining @ good money and he is a serviceable center, which is something expansion teams are looking. 

I'd rather keep McCarty than Jones... I also think his contract is better and he is capable of providing some minutes at PF/C in the centerless east.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Ainge isn't done; this is still too early for this*

But I don't think we should protect Baker. I would almost rather protect LaFrentz. Of course, we should protect neither.

To me, the guys you must protect:

Pierce
Jiri
Ricky Davis
Mihm
Banks 
Perkins

they can take anyone else after that

but of course, the roster might look different come Feb. 19th, so I'll hold off on my final 8 protections....


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Danny isn't done yet? 

Oh God, I expect him to trade when we are on a 5 game win streak and everyone gets it together.

BTW there are no good FA's we can get next year....in two years there will probably be better ones....which is when Vinny's contract expires.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> Danny isn't done yet?
> 
> Oh God, I expect him to trade when we are on a 5 game win streak and everyone gets it together.
> ...


ARROYO


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Celts11</b>!
> 
> 
> ARROYO


Don't we have 3 point guards? And our point guard of the future riding the pine?


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## theBirdman (Jun 20, 2003)

Yes, I also believe Ainge isnt done.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

Pierce, Welsch, Davis, Perkins, Banks and Mihm will be protected. Neither Raef or Vinny will be protected because the Bobcats won't take them with their 2 respective problem history's (Raefs knees and Vins alchohol) and their huge contracts. That's fine with me because I don't want to lose them. Other than them and the guys named above I don't care who they take. I mean Blount is servicable but once Raef is healthy and Kendrick gets to play he's un-needed. James has played well but I doubt the Cats would take him and even if they did we have Marcus and Jiri. Jones isn't getting to play with us and probably won't get a shot. McCarty is just going to take up room that could be filled with a new promissing rookie. Hunter is never going to play, Perkins isn't even getting to play even though in his 5 minutes this season he had 2 Offensive rebounds and 7 points. So I think Brandon's days may be numbered.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

The question that should be asked when making this list is, "What is the future of this team?" Here it is:

C---Chris Mihm
PF--Kendrick Perkins
SF--Paul Pierce
SG--Ricky Davis
PG--Marcus Banks
6th-Jiri Welsch

The seventh man on that rotation will be Raef LaFrentz, but it won't be necessary to protect him because of his bloated contract. After those six, the three most appealing guys are Brandon Hunter, Mike James, and Walter McCarty. That leaves Mike Stewart, Vin Baker, Mark Blount, Jumaine Jones and LaFrentz unprotected and Mills will be without a contract. McCarty is O'Brien's man and might be developing into the second coming of Steve Kerr with the way he shoots the open three. Mike James has made many clutch shots this season and has been, quite honestly, the best free agent signing this team has made in more than a few seasons. So Brandon Hunter appears to be the odd man out, who may well get picked by Charlotte.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> The question that should be asked when making this list is, "What is the future of this team?" Here it is:
> 
> C---Chris Mihm
> ...


I think the 6 you list above plus LaFrentz and Blount will be protected. LaFrentz' contract isn't that bad.

Charlotte may not take any Celtic unless persuaded to do so with money and draft picks. After all, 28 other teams will be making players available, and Charlotte only needs 15.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Protections*

Still a little early (can't really make this list until February 20th), but here's my tentative one....

1) Pierce
2) Davis
3) Banks
4) Perkins
5) Mihm
6) Blount
7) LaFrentz
8) Jiri

also, we would retain Baker and Stewart for next year, since Charlotte will pass, so that's at least 10 guys that could stay.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

Remember that an expansion team can pick a player and then renounce him. The player must still be paid, but becomes a free agent and does not count on anyone's cap.

If the Celtics offered the Bobcats a first rounder plus enough cash, Charlotte might be induced to select Baker and then renounce him.

Of course, a number of other teams will be looking to do the same thing with their highly-paid guys who aren't producing, so it will be an interesting year.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> Remember that an expansion team can pick a player and then renounce him. The player must still be paid, but becomes a free agent and does not count on anyone's cap.
> 
> If the Celtics offered the Bobcats a first rounder plus enough cash, Charlotte might be induced to select Baker and then renounce him.
> ...


I'd rather do that with Lafrentz, his contract is worse.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Celts11</b>!
> 
> 
> I'd rather do that with Lafrentz, his contract is worse.


No, I don't agree. LeFrentz is being paid considerably less than Baker on a yearly basis. Raef's contract is not that bad, given that he is a reasonably skilled 6-11 player who is 5 years younger than Baker.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

I'm pretty sure Charolette can't pick two of a team's players. 

I'm not sure of Lafrentz's knee. Although, alcholism is harder to make a comeback from.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> No, I don't agree. LeFrentz is being paid considerably less than Baker on a yearly basis. Raef's contract is not that bad, given that he is a reasonably skilled 6-11 player who is 5 years younger than Baker.


Yes but Raef will put us 6 years without cap.....best solution let Raef and Vinny unprotected, if they take either one I'll be happy.


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## bballin (Jun 3, 2003)

> best solution let Raef and Vinny unprotected, if they take either one I'll be happy.


That would be very nice. Of course if they take Raef, he'll bounce back and become a borderline all star. Vinny i'm not so sure about even if he leaves the celtics


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*The difference between Raef and Vinny*

Raef gets paid less and he can play when he's healthy. They might not protect either, but a healthy Raef can help this team win. Vinny isn't getting any younger, and I don't think we can count on him. 

Wyc and Steve are too cheap to try to get Charlotte to take Vinny, and I don't think they would.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: The difference between Raef and Vinny*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Raef gets paid less and he can play when he's healthy. They might not protect either, but a healthy Raef can help this team win. Vinny isn't getting any younger, and I don't think we can count on him.
> 
> Wyc and Steve are too cheap to try to get Charlotte to take Vinny, and I don't think they would.


Well if it means not paying a luxury tax vs paying a luxury tax you can be sure that they will try. They have to pay Vinnie anyway unless they terminate his contract.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

I highly doubt the Bobcats will touch either of them, they will have 29 teams trying to get them to take their re-treads (not that I think Vinny or Raef are retreads, they just have terrible contracts) while young cheap talent will be up on the block. They won't tie their hands like that.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>whiterhino</b>!
> I highly doubt the Bobcats will touch either of them, they will have 29 teams trying to get them to take their re-treads (not that I think Vinny or Raef are retreads, they just have terrible contracts) while young cheap talent will be up on the block. They won't tie their hands like that.


Yeah, they would do it for high draft picks, money...


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>whiterhino</b>!
> I highly doubt the Bobcats will touch either of them, they will have 29 teams trying to get them to take their re-treads (not that I think Vinny or Raef are retreads, they just have terrible contracts) while young cheap talent will be up on the block. They won't tie their hands like that.


No, no. They can pick players and then renounce them. They don't have to tie their hands. There is a loophole in the CBA to give an extra advantage to expansion teams.

Here's how it might work: Charlotte picks Baker and then renounces him. As consideration for their agreement to take him, Boston trades a first round pick plus 26 million dollars to Charlotte in exchange for Charlotte's second round pick in 2015.

In effect, the Bobcats select a first round pick instead of a player. If you were Charlotte, would you rather have 15 players, or 14 players plus an extra first round pick plus extra salary cap space to sign a free agent?

Result: Baker is a free agent although he still gets paid on the last two years of his deal. BUT he does not count against the cap or the luxury tax for either Charlotte OR Boston. If Charlotte actually wants him as a player they can give him a one-year deal at the veteran's minimum. So can any other team. In effect it's a buyout without the amount of the buyout counting against anyone's cap.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: The difference between Raef and Vinny*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Raef gets paid less and he can play when he's healthy. They might not protect either, but a healthy Raef can help this team win. Vinny isn't getting any younger, and I don't think we can count on him.
> 
> Wyc and Steve are too cheap to try to get Charlotte to take Vinny, and I don't think they would.


The difference between Vinnie and Raef is that Vinnie is gone in 2 more years, while Raef is tieing our hands with his 15 year contract.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: Re: The difference between Raef and Vinny*



> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> The difference between Vinnie and Raef is that Vinnie is gone in 2 more years, while Raef is tieing our hands with his 15 year contract.


Raelf is sober and can play. Vinnie isn't and can't.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: The difference between Raef and Vinny*



> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> Raelf is sober and can play. Vinnie isn't and can't.


But our future will consist of only Paul and Reaf.....not bright you have to admit.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: The difference between Raef and Vinny*



> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> But our future will consist of only Paul and Reaf.....not bright you have to admit.


What about Banks, Perkins, and Kris Humphries


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## Richie Rich (May 23, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: The difference between Raef and Vinny*



> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> But our future will consist of only Paul and Reaf.....not bright you have to admit.








I guess you forgot about: Banks, Perkins, Davis, Welsch.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

I also forgot Chris Mills, Michael Stewart....


they aren't playing. 

WE CAN'T improve throught draft only, and WON'T draft a Shaq, Kobe, KG, TD or anyone close to that with medicore pikcs.


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## BostonCeltics_33 (Jun 1, 2003)

*Baker*

I don't care if the Bobcats take him or not. 

In 2 years Vin Bakers contract will be the biggest asset we have.

If they do, swell, but if they don't, we don't really have that long to wait for big time relief. Who knows, he might even get fired in between times.

I'm with Big John on LaFrentz. He is a big man who isn't old, can score and block shots. Overpriced, but probably worth hanging on to.
If you're the Bobcats, you have all this money and nowhere to spend it. In that light he doesn't look so bad. The guys they are choosing from don't have that much cache, so a guy like Raef you just shrug your shoulders and go for.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

The point is that in my scenario Baker costs the Bobcats nothing except one of their 15 picks, since the Celtics provide the cash to pay Baker out. In exchange for this 15th expansion draft pick, the Bobcats get a first round pick in the regular draft. See??


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

I still don't think they will be doing that, Baker is not the only guy a team wants to get rid of....and I'm not too fond of getting rid of him anyway because I guess I'm in the minority when I say I think this was just a minor setback and he's gonna play well the rest of the season and he was an All-Star and since we've already paid most of his crazy contract the least we can do is let ourselves get the releif when it expires or get something good from a team that wants his expiring contract. Raef is expendable at this point, I think he'll do well for us, but we have similar players, but I don't think he's going anywhere anyway : (
I would like to dump Michael Stewart and Walter McCarty though, ASAP! Can we leave McCarty open, would they consider taking him, he might provide scoring (sometimes) for an expansion team.


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