# Hamilton thoughts so far?



## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

The Bulls are 3-1 and their offensive efficiency has IMO been noticeably better than last year. Still too many turnovers against average-at-best defenses, but it's a nice sign to see a functional offense with 5 starters averaging double figure scoring, 46% team shooting (40% from 3's), and one of the top offense efficiency ratings in the league (I heard synergy sports had the Bulls offense as top 3 in efficiency). Rose does not need to score 25 ppg for us to win and his FG% has gone up as a result of less scoring load. 

The only real changes from last year are that Rip Hamilton is our starting 2-guard and Boozer/Noah are both healthy at the same time (didn't happen at all last year). Now...I am not sure we can attribute the offensive production to Boozer/Noah. Boozer has not been getting many touches and isn't creating his own offense on the O-boards. 

I have to believe Hamilton is having a positive impact on the team's offense. From what I've seen, he is giving us what most of us expected in ~28 min/game with double figure scoring and good passing. Opposing defenses are staying honest on him which has helped spacing and reduced double teaming of Rose. We have another legit finisher on the break. Better yet, I don't think he has shown his best basketball and is still getting acclimated; he appears to have plenty left in the tank.

What are others' thoughts...meeting expectations? Over/underwhelmed? Enough to put us over the top?


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

yodurk said:


> The Bulls are 3-1 and their offensive efficiency has IMO been noticeably better than last year. Still too many turnovers against average-at-best defenses, but it's a nice sign to see a functional offense with 5 starters averaging double figure scoring, 46% team shooting (40% from 3's), and one of the top offense efficiency ratings in the league (I heard synergy sports had the Bulls offense as top 3 in efficiency). Rose does not need to score 25 ppg for us to win and his FG% has gone up as a result of less scoring load.
> 
> The only real changes from last year are that Rip Hamilton is our starting 2-guard and Boozer/Noah are both healthy at the same time (didn't happen at all last year). Now...I am not sure we can attribute the offensive production to Boozer/Noah. Boozer has not been getting many touches and isn't creating his own offense on the O-boards.
> 
> ...


It's still too early to tell. They've only played 6 total games, and had about a week of practice. It's probably safe to say he hasn't screwed anything up. And a clip from last night's locker room on Bulls TV indicates he's getting along fine with every one - http://www.nba.com/bulls/bullstv/gameday.html. He cracks Deng up when Luol is taking with the Swirsk.


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## CHI-Legend (Dec 31, 2011)

Still don't like the pick up. Too old. It's fine for now, but still not significant pick up for the Bulls. You need a back court mate to grow with Rose. Everyone on that starting lineup is old or super veteran apart from Noah, and he's just a hustle dork, not a REAL impact player. 

The Bulls really needed another IMPACT player. Someone who can help alievate Rose, and create off the dribble for himself, and others. We still don't have that ... and no matter how well the Bulls play this regular season, it won't matter.

We're not beating the Heat. Couldn't beat them last year with the element of suprise, while they were still gelling, and Boozer is another year older and lazier. 

The Heat roster is better, LeBron has lost weight and regained his explosion (physically) ... which is VERY frightening, and they aren't bailing defenses out by shooting stupid threes. They will DEMOLISH us in a series. Rose is our best player, and he's still not even as good as Wade.

It makes no difference picking RIP up, because we're still another star or superstar away from actually being a legit championship threat. If any of you Bulls fans think we have a legit chance at beating the Heat, you're smoking that good stuff, and where can I get some?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

CHI-Legend said:


> Still don't like the pick up. Too old. It's fine for now, but still not significant pick up for the Bulls. You need a back court mate to grow with Rose. Everyone on that starting lineup is old or super veteran apart from Noah, and he's just a hustle dork, not a REAL impact player.
> 
> The Bulls really needed another IMPACT player. Someone who can help alievate Rose, and create off the dribble for himself, and others. We still don't have that ... and no matter how well the Bulls play this regular season, it won't matter.
> 
> ...


Oh uh, King Joseus is coming for you....


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## Good Hope (Nov 27, 2002)

Durk,

Rip has had a significant impact on the team, that I can see. He's not shooting as well as you might expect, which isn't a big deal at this point.

But what I really like is the smartness of play, like that one breakout play he had on the jump ball against the Kings, and his movement with the ball and passing. He's a dynamic member of the offense, commands attention, moves the ball and fits well with Rose because of his speed and shooting. He keeps the ball moving, and seems to be a good teammate. 

Once he starts feeling comfortable and confident shooting the threes, we'll start putting teams away earlier and CJ and Ronnie can get some more time in there. I'd like to see Luol get some rest as well.


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

Rip is no longer a star player. We got him for $5M/Year. What are you expecting? However, he is still a huge upgrade over Bogan. He can still run and finish, command double team, and shoot with accuracy from 15-18 ft. His 3-pt shooting is not great but his mid-range is still one of the best. Obviously, he is not Wade or Kobe but still an effective player.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

CHI-Legend said:


> Still don't like the pick up. Too old. It's fine for now, but still not significant pick up for the Bulls. You need a back court mate to grow with Rose. Everyone on that starting lineup is old or super veteran apart from Noah, and he's just a hustle dork, not a REAL impact player.
> 
> The Bulls really needed another IMPACT player. Someone who can help alievate Rose, and create off the dribble for himself, and others. We still don't have that ... and no matter how well the Bulls play this regular season, it won't matter.
> 
> ...


Though I disagree with your view on Rip, I can respect the opinion that Rip isn't enough to put us over the top. I am not certain one way or the other; it's close. 

The thing I must really debate though is your view of Miami. They could EASILY be 2-2 right now; it took 2 game winning shots from Dwayne Wade to narrowly escape Charlotte and Minnesota. And those aren't exactly world beating teams. Shane Battier has been worthless for them so far and he was supposedly their big acquisition (certainly not looking better than Rip!). They are fortunate Norris Cole is looking like a player b/c otherwise they are the same team as last year, just with better familiarity at this stage of the season. Maybe that's enough for a title, but not exactly the 72-win Bulls. We'll see I guess.


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

It's nice that the SG actually has to be guarded out there, but I still don't think he's going to be enough to get past Miami unless he starts hitting those wide open threes that Rose got him against the Clippers. He missed three or four of those last night but the good news is its only game 4 of the regular season.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

I hated Rip as a Piston, and wasn't thrilled to see him on the team, but last night's game he played pretty well and showed what a complete SG can do for the team. I think one other thing that helps the team is Rose's 3 point shot continues to improve, and the rest of the team is healthy and has some experience in the scheme. Of course they're going to improve dramatically with those 2 variables changed, plus Rip added to the mix.


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## CroatianBullsFan (May 23, 2006)

CHI-Legend said:


> Still don't like the pick up. Too old. It's fine for now, but still not significant pick up for the Bulls. You need a back court mate to grow with Rose. Everyone on that starting lineup is old or super veteran apart from Noah, and he's just a hustle dork, not a REAL impact player.
> 
> The Bulls really needed another IMPACT player. Someone who can help alievate Rose, and create off the dribble for himself, and others. We still don't have that ... and no matter how well the Bulls play this regular season, it won't matter.
> 
> ...


You are probably right. With Bulls` addition of Rip, Miami is probably still a stronger team. But we are better than last year and it looks like Rip is the best player we could get at the moment. He is doing solid job for now.


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## Fergus (Oct 2, 2002)

PD said:


> Rip is no longer a star player. We got him for $5M/Year. What are you expecting? However, he is still a huge upgrade over Bogan. He can still run and finish, command double team, and shoot with accuracy from 15-18 ft. His 3-pt shooting is not great but his mid-range is still one of the best. Obviously, he is not Wade or Kobe but still an effective player.


I agree. What Chi-Legend misses is that Hamilton is the best you were likely to get for the money available. Assuming the Bulls do not free up money using the amnesty clause on Boozer, Rip is about the best you are going to be able to do.


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## SWIFTSLICK (Aug 22, 2009)

He's done exactly what I thought he would about 8-10 ppg for four games, then sit out due to injury. He's too old. He'll breakdown over the pace of this season. It's a stop gap answer to the SG woes...and we'll still have the same issue when he leaves a year from now.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

SWIFTSLICK said:


> He's done exactly what I thought he would about 8-10 ppg for four games, then sit out due to injury. He's too old. He'll breakdown over the pace of this season. It's a stop gap answer to the SG woes...and we'll still have the same issue when he leaves a year from now.


Its pretty much what I said when he signed, I got flamed for it but guess what.. Hes injured. Hes going to help when healthy but this is going to be a brutal season schedule wise. His game revolves around running around screens and cutting so this could be a nagging injury the more he plays. Hopefully he doesn't re aggravate his injury on Tuesday.

I'm concerned with CJ's injury, while Brewer can fill in perfectly for Hamilton, I'm not sure JL3 is an NBA quality back up 1.


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## Good Hope (Nov 27, 2002)

I don't know...

Rip is younger than all three of the Celtic super dupers. I'm not counting him out. Of course, you're right until you're not. This season is going to be hard on everyone.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Good Hope said:


> I don't know...
> 
> Rip is younger than all three of the Celtic super dupers. I'm not counting him out. Of course, you're right until you're not. This season is going to be hard on everyone.


Well hes not younger than Rajon Rondo. 

While I agree that the season is going to be hard on everyone, even you have to admit that its going to take a big time toll on a guy like Rip Hamilton, especially considering the way he plays. 

A groin injury is not a good one for anyone let alone a guy who cuts and runs as much as Rip.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

As I said before many times, our team was not designed to win a champ... We siml.don't have money for improvements. We are paying way too much for players with average impact. Deng Boozer Noah -- 40M !!! 

So, let 's wait another three year ... and enjoy the fact that we have Rose.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Bulls96 said:


> As I said before many times, our team was not designed to win a champ... We siml.don't have money for improvements. We are paying way too much for players with average impact. Deng Boozer Noah -- 40M !!!
> 
> So, let 's wait another three year ... and enjoy the fact that we have Rose.


I don't agree that we aren't built to win a title, I just think we aren't built to beat the Heat. That being said, if the Heat are knocked out of the playoff's by another team, I really do like our chances to win a title. The only other team that I would be scared of is OKC.


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

Yeah, but there's nobody in the East equipped to beat the Heat. Nobody.

We're the closest team and even for us it's an uphill battle.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Pay Ton said:


> Yeah, but there's nobody in the East equipped to beat the Heat. Nobody.
> 
> We're the closest team and even for us it's an uphill battle.


Don't be surprised if a team like Knicks get hot in a series and shot lights out to beat the Heat. Miami takes advantage of shutting down teams but if it finds itself in a shoot out, the Knicks are a team that can cause them problems. 

I'm 90% sure that it will come down to Bulls vs Heat again.


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## JKILLroy (Jan 4, 2012)

yodurk said:


> The thing I must really debate though is your view of Miami. They could EASILY be 2-2 right now;


No offense, but that is one of the dumbest sports arguments I will EVER hear.

You can go back and comb over tons of games for every team where the game was won by a basket or two and say it COULD'VE been a loss.

The point is, it wasn't. A win is a win, whether it's by a whopping 30 points or by 1 point ...

The HEAT are coasting, meanwhile every team is amped up to play them.

The Bulls stand NO chance against Miami. They got better, the Bulls stayed complacent. The RIP pickup is nothing of significance.

Face it, the Bulls managment has been UTTERLY PATHETIC since 1999, when they essentially shattered the core of a team into a thousand pieces that could've competed at the very least for 2 more titles.

They got LUCKY and fell into the draft pick, picking up the hometown hero.

Everything else has been EPIC fail. Letting Tyson Chandler go for virtually free.

Tyson Chandler btw is the REASON the Mavericks won the championship last year, and is essentially the same player as Noah, expect is WAY better.

Drafting Ty Thomas over Lamarcus Aldridge.

Not trading Jay Williams or Jamal Crawford in time to get a draft pick that would've moves us up one position to get ANOTHER local legend in Dwyane Wade.

Getting rid of one of the best on ball defenders in the league, from the PG or SG spot in Kirk Hinrich.

Signing glorified role players to superstar contracts, see Luol Deng, Carloos Boozer, and Joakim Noah.

Hiring Vinny Del ***** instead of Doug Collins.

Letting Del ***** sit your superstar rookie in critical moments of games that would help him gain experience, and take the ball out of 6th men who think they're superstars (Ben Gordon) ...

We continue to make dumb moves, time and time again. Only saving grace of this damn franchise is D. Rose.

How can I not mention not willing to part with Luol Deng for Kobe in summer 2007, when he was demanding to be traded HERE?!

mg:

Hell we had JR Smith, who even though a bonehead could be reigned in by Thibs, and his creativity offensively off the dribble, and potential expolsion each game for 20 - 30 points would be VERY valuable right now.

Bulls managment just doesn't know what they're doing. Haven't in a long, long time. Actually I don't think they ever did ... they just lucked out a few times. MJ? Fell into their laps. MJ molded Pippen into the superstar he became everyday in practice, so managment can't even take credit for that one.

And then they had Rose, through the sheer luck of lottery balls fall into their lap.

And no they are too short sighted to let go of Taj Gibson (nothing special), Joakim Noah (nothing special) for potential superstars. We should be banging down the door of Orlando. Here, take Gibson, take Noah ... you add Howard to this team, and they can win a ring. Even if you lose a little bit of depth with Taj Gibson.

Bulls managment ALWAYS has been dumb as a box of rocks.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

lol


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

So anyway...


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Granted it was just the Pistons, but Bulls' offense looked 10x better with Rip in there. Made some sweet passes and hit some shots. Keep it up, Rip. Just stay healthy!


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## Good Hope (Nov 27, 2002)

Yep....

And that comment about health goes for everyone!


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

We may just want to lock this thread, each time I post, I jinx Rip into a missed game. :laugh:


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## JKILLroy (Jan 4, 2012)

It looks like it doesn't matter, because we still win without him.


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## Ragingbull33 (Apr 10, 2005)

I'm trying not to think about it, but as good as our 2-5 players are, I fear not having a legit second option could end up leaving Rose and the Bulls as this periods Ewing / Knicks, consistent runner up to a more elite team. The battles could be fierce, but the outcome one sided all because Rose can't do it alone. In the short term, I hope our growth and depth are enough, but if not I am banking on Mirotic, the Charlotte pick, and/or some trade putting us over the top. A lot of unknowns right now so let just enjoy it.


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## SWIFTSLICK (Aug 22, 2009)

Hamilton is not the same player he once was. This would've been a great move 5 years ago. Right now, it's a waste... He'll give the team 10 points when he can. But that doesn't help in a condensed season with this ridiculous schedule(9 games in 14 days since the season's start). He'll ride the bench, because old guys get hurt. This team should've pursued Afflalo, Mayo, Young harder, they didn't. End result? He's played 5 of 9 games. Don't tell me about durability either, that goes out the window with age. I don't care what he's done in the past. Father time is undefeated. he comes for everyone, eventually (but he comes for b-ball players and boxers first).


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## SWIFTSLICK (Aug 22, 2009)

thebizkit69u said:


> Its pretty much what I said when he signed, I got flamed for it but guess what.. Hes injured. Hes going to help when healthy but this is going to be a brutal season schedule wise. His game revolves around running around screens and cutting so this could be a nagging injury the more he plays. Hopefully he doesn't re aggravate his injury on Tuesday.
> 
> I'm concerned with CJ's injury, while Brewer can fill in perfectly for Hamilton, I'm not sure JL3 is an NBA quality back up 1.


Hey, I'm with you man. I wanted Afflalo on this roster, badly. But again, I was "being too negative" because Rip Hamilton has "experience" or some bull like that. As for Lucas-cubed, I'm certain that he is not an NBA quality backup. That being said I can tolerate Watson but i don't find him to be a quality backup either. Unfortunately, he makes Lucas look like a D-Leaguer.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

Afflalo was out of our price range. He was never a reasonable option.

Lucas isn't terrible for a third PG. We could do a lot worse.

All that matters is being healthy for the playoffs.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

King Joseus said:


> Afflalo was out of our price range. He was never a reasonable option.
> 
> Lucas isn't terrible for a third PG. We could do a lot worse.
> 
> All that matters is being healthy for the playoffs.


I'm just more concerned with the way they are playing. Defensively they are up and down and offensively they are very inefficient. 

Derrick is shooting 43% on basically all 3's and drives to the basket and trying to prove to the world that hes a pass first PG. 

Deng started the season great but has come back down to earth since cutting his fro hawk, shooting 43%. 

Noah has been abysmal so far on offense and defensively hes losing minutes to Asik. 

They just need to play smarter, honestly wins and losses are what they are but I want this team to stop turning the damn ball over and I want Derrick to establish himself early in the game as opposed to trying to force feed guys in the first quarter and the Bulls being down by 10. 

Derricks game right now is too predictable, It worries me if he can't hit a mid range jumper or post up smaller PG's.


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

noah has been the biggest disappointment so far. he has no touch his shots.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

BenDengGo said:


> noah has been the biggest disappointment so far. he has no touch his shots.


He's been pretty terrible. Definitely need him to get it going over the course of the season.


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## JKILLroy (Jan 4, 2012)

SWIFTSLICK said:


> *Hamilton is not the same player he once was.* This would've been a great move 5 years ago. *Right now, it's a waste...* He'll give the team 10 points when he can. But that *doesn't help in a condensed season with this ridiculous schedule(9 games in 14 days since the season's start)*. He'll ride the bench, because old guys get hurt. This team should've pursued Afflalo, Mayo, Young harder, they didn't. End result? He's played 5 of 9 games. *Don't tell me about durability either, that goes out the window with age. I don't care what he's done in the past. Father time is undefeated.* he comes for everyone, eventually (but he comes for b-ball players and boxers first).


Best post in the thread.


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## JKILLroy (Jan 4, 2012)

BenDengGo said:


> noah has been the biggest disappointment so far. he has no touch his shots.


He never has had "touch" to his shots. He's a hustle dork / role player. Anyone expecting more out of him was delusional to begin with. And that contract.

:sigh:

God, Bulls managment sucks.


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## JKILLroy (Jan 4, 2012)

thebizkit69u said:


> Derricks game right now is too predictable, It worries me if he can't hit a mid range jumper or post up smaller PG's.


It's crazy because in the 2010 season, his mid range jumper was automatic, and he was one of the best mid range players in the league.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

JKILLroy said:


> It's crazy because in the 2010 season, his mid range jumper was automatic, and he was one of the best mid range players in the league.


I wrote about this a year ago as well. What happened to his mid range shot? He rarely attempts it now a days and back then even though he shot like 22% percent from 3's his overall FG% was in the high 40's and that mid range shot was deadly... now that he got that 3 point FG up to the 30's, his mid range shot is non existent.


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

i wanted jr smith all along, whats he doing these days?


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

BenDengGo said:


> i wanted jr smith all along, whats he doing these days?


Can't come over until March(?), I think. I've heard he has interest in playing here, I think we'd be dumb not to sign him if that's the case.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

SWIFTSLICK said:


> Hey, I'm with you man. I wanted Afflalo on this roster, badly. But again, I was "being too negative" because Rip Hamilton has "experience" or some bull like that. As for Lucas-cubed, I'm certain that he is not an NBA quality backup. That being said I can tolerate Watson but i don't find him to be a quality backup either. Unfortunately, he makes Lucas look like a D-Leaguer.



I think every person who posts on this forum would have preferred Afflalo. Of course, the fact that it was impossible under the salary cap might be a tiny bit relevant, eh?


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

JKILLroy said:


> He never has had "touch" to his shots. He's a hustle dork / role player. Anyone expecting more out of him was delusional to begin with. And that contract.
> 
> :sigh:
> 
> God, Bulls managment sucks.



Would you prefer paying Tyson Chandler 15 million? Noah gets paid a market or below-market rate for a 5.


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## JKILLroy (Jan 4, 2012)

thebizkit69u said:


> I wrote about this a year ago as well. What happened to his mid range shot?


He still has it ... he just doesn't use it. In 2010 he took it out of necessity. He didn't have any range on his jumper for the 3 ball because of the slight hitch and awkward mechanics of his jumper. He had the strength to do mid-range quite easily.

It seems like he worked so hard on his 3 ball, that he wanted to prove to people he can shoot it, that his mid range shot took a far back seat in the process.

Which is ashame really. When will today's players realize that the mid range game is where you MAKE your money. It's the only RELIABLE and consistent shot on the floor.

ESPECIALLY in the playoffs, when teams load the paint, and foul hard on drives to the basket. And unlike the regular season where they let you shoot the 3, they RUN you off the three point line. The mid range game is where you win. That's how Dallas beat Miami last year. James specifically, due to being overweight couldn't get to the rim off the dribble, and was forced to shoot 3's or nothing else. He had no versatility to his offensive game.

This season? Him and Wade haven't shot a 3 ball yet, and look how DOMINANT and effecient they have been in the process.

It's why MJ is the greatest playoff scorer and performer of all-time. He could shoot the 3 if you left him open, and would only take it WHEN HE WAS WIDE OPEN. But he MURKED teams with his mid range game. 

So many players and perimeter stars now a days KILL their effeciency by simply shooting the 3 ball as a bail out. Take a step inside, one dribble pull up and knock down a mid range jumper. It's EASIER. Why are they TRYING to make the game harder for themselves?

The emphasis on the 3 point shot, from middle school to AAU, to HS ball, to college is slowly killing simple intelligence of the game. Work inside, out.


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## JKILLroy (Jan 4, 2012)

BenDengGo said:


> i wanted jr smith all along, whats he doing these days?


We had him on the roster a few years ago and Pax gave him away for essentially, absolutely nadda.

-_-


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## JKILLroy (Jan 4, 2012)

jnrjr79 said:


> Would you prefer paying Tyson Chandler 15 million? Noah gets paid a market or below-market rate for a 5.


Considering Tyson Chandler is the better ball player, absolutely. 

Also considering we HAD Tyson Chandler, and gave him away for spare parts a few years ago.

:sigh:


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

jnrjr79 said:


> Would you prefer paying Tyson Chandler 15 million? Noah gets paid a market or below-market rate for a 5.


Ugh how bout neither.

Tyson is averaging more points, rebounds and blocks and has a 30 point higher FG% but HELL NO I would not pay any of these guys anywhere near 10 million. 

Noah's production for what he makes is disgusting, Omer Asik is outperforming him at a fraction of the price.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

JKILLroy said:


> He still has it ... he just doesn't use it. In 2010 he took it out of necessity. He didn't have any range on his jumper for the 3 ball because of the slight hitch and awkward mechanics of his jumper. He had the strength to do mid-range quite easily.
> 
> It seems like he worked so hard on his 3 ball, that he wanted to prove to people he can shoot it, that his mid range shot took a far back seat in the process.
> 
> ...


What makes me scratch my head is with Derricks quickness he could easily explode off a pick for a wide open shot from the elbow. Derrick was un guardable when he was hitting that shot, honestly there is just no defense against it. Doubling and trapping at or past the 3 point line is MUCH safer than doubling inside the 3, its almost an open invitation for the bigs to pick and roll for an easy shot. 

Derrick proved he can hit the 3, now its time to hit that mid range like he used to, its not like teams even stopped him... he just stopped shooting it!


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Noah's production for what he makes is disgusting, Omer Asik is outperforming him at a fraction of the price.



Because he's on his first deal. What do you think Omer earns per season when he's a free agent, based on his current level of production? Someone's going to throw some money at him.


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## JKILLroy (Jan 4, 2012)

jnrjr79 said:


> Because he's on his first deal. What do you think Omer earns per season when he's a free agent, based on his current level of production? Someone's going to throw some money at him.


Oh, come off it making excuses for this SCRUB, Joakim Noah. He should be out performing Asik, PERIOD. He's being out performed by Asik because of contract and money issues? Really?

The whole reason why meat head Chicago fans were on Noah's staff, which allowed him to get this RIDICULOUS contract for such a scrub ass player whose ONLY asset is height was because of his "competitiveness" and "intensity" (really just screaming every now and then) ... and he's just going to let some other young european dude out perform him consistently?

Back in the day when people got a HUGE contract, they felt compelled to PROVE night in and night out why they deserved that contract over someone else. It's called having pride.

If Noah ACTUALLY was "competitive", and "intense" he would've improved his horrendous offensive game, and disgusting ugly jump shot, EARNED his pay check, and actually be a threat on the court at some point.

Guy couldn't even out perform Joel Anthony in the ECF. Joel Anthony, btw is about 5 - 6 inches shorter than Noah, and probably is out weighted by 15 - 25 lbs.

Noah is pathetic. Always has been. I see past the veil of "intensity" of him screaming after certain hustle plays.

And as a Bulls fan you're content with defending him?

It's almost as bad as that King Joseus kat defending Luol Deng.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

Comedy.


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## JKILLroy (Jan 4, 2012)

King Joseus said:


> Comedy.


For apologists.

For realists, it's called truth.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

Your view of it, perhaps.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

jnrjr79 said:


> Because he's on his first deal. What do you think Omer earns per season when he's a free agent, based on his current level of production? Someone's going to throw some money at him.


Who in their right mind would give Asik 10+ million!! Thats absurd.

I like Asik but hes got the worst damn hands in the NBA and in no way shape or form a 10 million dollar player.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Who in their right mind would give Asik 10+ million!! Thats absurd.
> 
> I like Asik but hes got the worst damn hands in the NBA and in no way shape or form a 10 million dollar player.



You know who also has "the worst damn hands in the NBA?" 

Tyson Chandler.


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## JKILLroy (Jan 4, 2012)

jnrjr79 said:


> You know who also has "the worst damn hands in the NBA?"
> 
> Tyson Chandler.


:whofarted

He's also LIGHT years more athletic.

He's also LIGHT years the better defender, and rim defender.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

JKILLroy said:


> :whofarted
> 
> He's also LIGHT years more athletic.
> 
> He's also LIGHT years the better defender, and rim defender.



And Jo is light years better at passing. And Jo is light years better at dribbling. And Jo is light years better at...blah blah blah. One can run around in circles like this all day. If you'd rather have Chandler and his deal than Noah with Noah's deal, super. I'm not going to say that's crazy. I doubt there would be a consensus around that position, however.

None of this, though, changes the fact that Jo's play so far this season has been poor and is troubling long-term.


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## JKILLroy (Jan 4, 2012)

jnrjr79 said:


> And Jo is light years better at passing.


Doesn't out weight the fact their purposes on the floor is the same, yet Chandler is better at said purpose.



jnrjr79 said:


> And Jo is light years better at dribbling.


Case in point why bball IQ on this site is next to nothing. How often is Joakim Noah needed or WANTED by the coach or system to be dribbling? 

It's so clear most of you don't know about the game. Why would you even need to mention Joakim Noah being a "better dribbler"? It's a moot point, neither player dribbles, nor SHOULD they be dribbling.

Chandler's deal sucks just as much as Noah's. Difference being however is that Tyson Chandler is the better ball player.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

JKILLroy said:


> Doesn't out weight the fact their purposes on the floor is the same, yet Chandler is better at said purpose.
> 
> 
> Case in point why bball IQ on this site is next to nothing. How often is Joakim Noah needed or WANTED by the coach or system to be dribbling? haha, god most of you are retarded on here.
> ...



Take it easy, Matrix.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

JKILLroy said:


> Doesn't out weight the fact their purposes on the floor is the same, yet Chandler is better at said purpose.


Rebounding is part of both of their jobs. Noah is better at it.


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## JKILLroy (Jan 4, 2012)

King Joseus said:


> Rebounding is part of both of their jobs. Noah is better at it.


No he isn't. Go look at their numbers. Re-read. Chandler is a career better rebounder, and is rebounding better this season as well.

While also being the VASTLY superior man to man defender, and rim defender.

Since they both are offensively INEPT it is their whole point on the floor. Chandler is better.

While also being the slightly better offensive threat, because he's athletic enough to catch lobs and THROW them down the rim's throat, as opposed to the layup fest from a 7 foot center we get from Joakim Noah's un-athletic self.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

jnrjr79 said:


> You know who also has "the worst damn hands in the NBA?"
> 
> Tyson Chandler.


That doesn't make any sense first of all, two players can't BOTH have the worlds worst hands in the NBA. 

But yeah, that Tyson Chandler contract is just F word stupid. Tyson sold a lot of teams on this idea that he was going to turn into something more than just an athletic rebounding shot blocker, Omer doesn't have the same "upside" that Tyson had but still, if your point is stupid teams will give out stupid contracts, I cant disagree. 

I just hope the Bulls don't make another stupid mistake of giving a bad contract to an average player. That Joakim Noah contract is looking worse and worse every day.

I don't feel like Omer's value is that high yet.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Asik is going to get paid. He's better than the starting center for a good majority of the teams in the NBA. In all likelihood there will be a half dozen or more teams fighting to get him and it seems to me like 8 to 10 million per year is a fair guess for what his market value might be. Anything less than 8 would be shocking and him getting 10 million would hardly be surprising.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

JKILLroy said:


> No he isn't. Go look at their numbers. Re-read. Chandler is a career better rebounder, and is rebounding better this season as well.


It's funny, but I was looking at the numbers when I made that point. Noah's been the better rebounder for three of the five years he's been in the league. Looking at 'em again, I was probably wrong. It's really a wash.

Noah at his best isn't any worse than Chandler at his best, though.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

As for Omer's value, you've gotta believe it's near DeAndre Jordan's...and he got $43M over four years. This is what the NBA does with big men.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

Apologies definitely due to bizkit for my pouncing on him a bit about negativity and such as I did. I think it had been so long since we had the super negative types on here that I'd forgotten what it actually looked like, and needed some sort of discussion to get going here.

We need more Bulls fans on this forum is what I'm saying. Everything's better that way.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

King Joseus said:


> Apologies definitely due to bizkit for my pouncing on him a bit about negativity and such as I did. I think it had been so long since we had the super negative types on here that I'd forgotten what it actually looked like, and needed some sort of discussion to get going here.
> 
> We need more Bulls fans on this forum is what I'm saying. Everything's better that way.


No need to apologize, I once got a death threat from a former poster on here so don't feel bad lol. Also, I'm not a SUPER negative type.. I'm a realist. 

That being said, I don't think Omers value is near DeAndre Jordan level also. DeAndre is a FANTASTIC shot blocker and is one of the most athletic big men in the entire NBA, his rebounding numbers would be better if he wasn't playing next to Blake Griffin. 

I think the fact that Omer is not starting keeps his salary projection in the 5-7 million a year range. Hes a very good post defender and shot blocker but offensively hes not much to write home about.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

I'm hoping you're right and we keep Omer at a reasonable rate. I'm just not too confident in it happening.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

King Joseus said:


> I'm hoping you're right and we keep Omer at a reasonable rate. I'm just not too confident in it happening.


Well as long as hes coming off the bench I think we will keep him at a reasonable rate. The problem is, with Noah's awful play of late, Asik's role might continue to grow out of necessity.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Well as long as hes coming off the bench I think we will keep him at a reasonable rate. The problem is, with Noah's awful play of late, Asik's role might continue to grow out of necessity.



Bingo.

With Noah struggling, Omer's minutes are going to go up, and the league is going to take note of his abilities. The simple fact is there aren't that many good centers in the NBA, so anyone who is seven feet tall and can walk and chew gum at the same time seems to get paid. I think there's a real risk that the Bulls get outbid for Omer's services. Though Jerry has said he'll pay the luxury tax for a contending team, he has yet to show it, and even if he did, I'm not sure Omer Asik is the guy he's going to break the piggy bank for. It's a concern.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> That being said, I don't think Omers value is near DeAndre Jordan level also. DeAndre is a FANTASTIC shot blocker and is one of the most athletic big men in the entire NBA, his rebounding numbers would be better if he wasn't playing next to Blake Griffin.
> 
> I think the fact that Omer is not starting keeps his salary projection in the 5-7 million a year range. Hes a very good post defender and shot blocker but offensively hes not much to write home about.


I'd agree with you here. Asik's true value is probably about $3M, but some C starved team will probably give him some full MLE deal like $5M per.

Remember, his salary is capped for year 3 and year 4 due to the Arenas rule. I am hopeful that we simply sign him to a 2-year deal at that cap and see what happens from there. He then could go out and sign a 4-year $30ish million deal in two years, or even better and he improves beyond a MLE type guy over the next two seasons.

Either way, I'm hopeful he remains a Bull the next two years unless we acquire a better player through trade, FA, or if we can actually use the Charlotte pick this year (doubtful with their 2-7 current record).


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

Asik is a starting C in the NBA and will most likely be paid like one because there aren't many good C's around these days. I haven't enjoyed watching him try to get involved on offense the past couple of games but he's really good at what he does best and that's rebound and protect the paint. Teams will pay top dollar for that.


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

I know a lot of these Hamilton DNP's are precautionary and these would be games he'd be playing in the playoffs if it was the same injury, but it's getting really frustrating seeing the DNP's pile up only eleven games in.

I understand he's mainly a "playoff signing", but still...

I guess at this point, you just have to hope he'll be a difference maker in the playoffs.


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

Pay Ton said:


> I know a lot of these Hamilton DNP's are precautionary and these would be games he'd be playing in the playoffs if it was the same injury, but it's getting really frustrating seeing the DNP's pile up only eleven games in.
> 
> I understand he's mainly a "playoff signing", but still...
> 
> I guess at this point, you just have to hope he'll be a difference maker in the playoffs.


That is frustrating. On the bright side though Korver has been getting more minutes since Rip decided to take January off and has been lights out.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

As I posted in the game thread, I was at that T-Wolves game tonight, and during one timeout Rip came clear out to the scorer's table, and had the 5 guys in, plus a few more huddles up and was talking to them. Idk what was said, but it appeared to be advice or a pep talk or something, so maybe he's providing much needed leadership and guidance there that will pay off big time in the playoffs.

As for Asik, he's huge. He just dwarfs the rest. He's a good solid player, but a bit clumsy on offense. The one play he had where he kinda plopped it on the rim and it spun around and finally went in was disgusting though. Dude is 7' tall and can't slam that sh!t? WTF?! Otherwise I liked what I saw out of him. I thought he got one or two bogus fouls called on him, including one where he and Love went for the same ball, Love grabbed it and Asik's arm was just kinda caught in there. It was ackward, so they had to call something and if anything it looked like Asik was reaching in, but I thought it should've been a non-call.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> As I posted in the game thread, I was at that T-Wolves game tonight, and during one timeout Rip came clear out to the scorer's table, and had the 5 guys in, plus a few more huddles up and was talking to them. Idk what was said, but it appeared to be advice or a pep talk or something, so maybe he's providing much needed leadership and guidance there that will pay off big time in the playoffs.
> 
> As for Asik, he's huge. He just dwarfs the rest. He's a good solid player, but a bit clumsy on offense. The one play he had where he kinda plopped it on the rim and it spun around and finally went in was disgusting though. Dude is 7' tall and can't slam that sh!t? WTF?! Otherwise I liked what I saw out of him. I thought he got one or two bogus fouls called on him, including one where he and Love went for the same ball, Love grabbed it and Asik's arm was just kinda caught in there. It was ackward, so they had to call something and if anything it looked like Asik was reaching in, but I thought it should've been a non-call.


There was one call against Asik in the second quarter (?, maybe) that he reacted to hilariously. He's definitely one of my favorites these days.


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

Good to see Rip is still contributing in some way. He hasn't played many games but it really looks like he fits in with the guys, and he has championship experience which can only help. While I'm not convinced he's going to be enough to get past Miami I'm really looking forward to seeing what sort of difference he can make. If all he does is prevent teams from double-teaming Rose then I'm happy.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

I love Asik too, but let's not forget that we're talking about a guy with a 10.1 PER who shoots 45% from the field... to say he's clumsy offensively may be an understatement. We ask him to play a specific role on this team and I'm glad that he's exceeded expectations... he's definitely defending and rebounding like a veteran, still, I'm not sure how many teams would want to hand him their starting C gig at this point.


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