# Does D'Antoni's 8-man rotation still make sense?



## Aylwin (Jan 29, 2007)

In my opinion, no. We no longer have a small run and gun team with players being able to play multiple positions. For better or worse, that team disappeared when Marion left. What we have now is a more traditional setup with Shaq in the middle. The good thing about this is that we're still a run and gun team but bigger. And now, we can also slow it down and play half court.

Two things have become clear:
- we can still play at a fast pace even with a slow big man in the middle
- Amare is a monster at power forward and should probably stay there

To me, that means we should have a solid big man playing at all times. We can still play fast but on defense we'll have a big presence clogging up the middle. In other words, Skinner should be the main backup for Shaq. Neither Amare nor Diaw should even bother unless we specifically need to go small.

So at the very least, I believe we should have a 9-man rotation.

What do you guys think?


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## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

D'Antoni doesn't understand adjustment. Go small ball with Diaw and Amare if the time calls for it. If we need a big man in there to rebound against a certain team, then bring in Skinner. Small ball vs big should be solely based on what the situation calls for. But Mike doesn't understand that, he thinks small ball regardless.....


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## Kekai (Jan 12, 2005)

Sigh..I want to go on a rant but I have no energy right now. I wish we would use detroit as an example of how we should do our rotations. I like how they trust their rookies and go 9-10 deep. Look, stuckey light it up tonight for 27 points. Wish we could see what alando can do, and even DJ. We'll never know.


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## Aylwin (Jan 29, 2007)

Kekai said:


> I wish we would use detroit as an example of how we should do our rotations. I like how they trust their rookies and go 9-10 deep. Look, stuckey light it up tonight for 27 points. Wish we could see what alando can do, and even DJ. We'll never know.


Good point! I don't see why we couldn't put them in early. If they get going and play well then we can keep them in longer or use them more throughout the game. If not, then back to the bench. At least they'd provide a little rest for our main 8 players.

This would've been particularly important this season since LB isn't playing like the 6th Man of the Year anymore and Diaw is nowhere near the Most Improved Player we saw when he got here.

I'm really starting to believe we're one move away from being a championship caliber team. And that move is replacing D'Antoni. Think about it. All those roster changes the past few years, maybe it was the coach we should've replaced. We'll never get over that hump because D'Antoni *is* the hump.


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## Tiz (May 9, 2005)

At least Skinner was able to pick up some minutes in last nights game. I would like to see DJ picking up a few minutes as well. I think both could be helpful to the rotation as we go into the playoffs.

One unfortunate thing is that normally this time of year, some of these guys could pick up some time in preparation for the post season. But with the race this close, I just don't see that happening.

One other unfortunate side effect. They need to be making an investment in some of these younger players. As this team ages (I think the oldest starting 5 in the league) they need to look at how to fill the holes in the coming years. DJ to me has so much upside with his defensive abilities. Nothing to say he couldnt be the Bell of the future...a defensive & 3pt specialist.


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## Kekai (Jan 12, 2005)

Because aylwin..."we are here to win championships, not develop rookies" lmao...everytime i hear that stupid dumb *** quote i want to choke a *****. But yeah...we need to get them in workin in the early of the season, who cares if its only 5-10 minutes give the old starters a break and give the young guys a chance, build up their confidence and slowly work them into the rotation. Its not that hard.

And I couldn't believe Skinner got minutes last night, and I heard he played with Shaq? Wow. He probably only did that because the guys were so tired from the game the previous night, and going 7 guys deep on a back to back is just plain stupid. Tiz is right too....i believe our window is closing for that championship. It has to be either this year or the next year, and then its all down hill, because our guys are not going to get any younger. We need to start using the draft to develop some young talent, not give/trade away all of our picks.


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## Tiz (May 9, 2005)

Kekai said:


> .i believe our window is closing for that championship. It has to be either this year or the next year, and then its all down hill, because our guys are not going to get any younger. We need to start using the draft to develop some young talent, not give/trade away all of our picks.


I was thinking the same thing. I know recently someone had posted those what if? scenarios. It was chock full of just ridiculous what if's. LIke what if we hadn't traded Deng, what if JJ didn't go to the Hawks. Some pretty convoluted stuff, all of which I think stemmed from an ESPN article.

The one draft I will point out 2 years ago and we passed on Rondo, Marcus Williams and Sergio Rodriguez. Rondo obviously now being the best of those three. I think at the time the team was just starting on the Marcus Banks experiment.

But to think that you could have Rondo and DJ sitting in the wings learning from some of the greats in the game for their positions. Those two playing with Amare and Barbosa for the next decade would be a good thing.


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## Kekai (Jan 12, 2005)

You know, I don't really blame banks for not doing well here. How well do you expect somebody to do so good when one game you give him 10-15 minutes, then because he shoots 0-3 he gets benched for the next 2 games. D'antoni has a very short leash when it comes to players and obviously has his favorites on the team. I agree though, it would have been great to have rondo here, but I bet you anything he wouldn't be doing as well here as he is in Boston, because in Boston he is actually getting a chance. 

Its some weird times here, and I can't wait to see what the future brings for the team. Until then I'm just going to sit here and ***** :laugh:


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## Aylwin (Jan 29, 2007)

Kekai said:


> "we are here to win championships, not develop rookies"


This statement and the stupid 8-man rotation are the reasons why we have no chance of building a solid core team for the long term. People complain about giving up draft picks but what's the point? We're not interested in rookies. We're not here to develop them. And with the tight rotation, they're hardly going to see any playing time anyway.

Sure, we missed a lot of good opportunities in past drafts. But for the sake of those players, I'm glad we gave up those picks. Would Rondo be the player he is today if he were on our team with D'Antoni as coach? I don't think so.

If we're not champions this year, D'Antoni needs to go. Replace him with somebody who knows how to use AND develop players, THEN we worry about the draft.


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## bircan (Jul 17, 2005)

On that note, we have to make Atlanta's draft pick count. Sure its not high, but we should be looking hard at drafting someone we will use and develop for the future.


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## Aylwin (Jan 29, 2007)

Our loss to Houston is a good example why D'Antoni's system is stupid. The Rockets play without one of their superstars and another key starter. What happens? They beat us anyway. How? Their bench! 

Granted, Yao has been out for awhile now and they had time to adjust. Still, they're without 2 starters and yet they managed to play 10 guys. So that's a total of 12 players on their team who know how to play and, more importantly, are given a chance to play.

How significant was their bench in that game? Here are a few things to think about:

1) Their bench outscored our bench 43-26.
2) Their 10th player scored more than 2 of our starters (Hill and Bell) combined
3) Their 9th and 10th players combined for more points than 3 of our starters (Hill, Bell And Nash)
4) And here's a good one: if Houston's rookie (a 2nd round pick) scored just 1 more point, he'd have the same total as Hill, Bell, Nash and Diaw combined.

Houston played with Yao and Battier. Now imagine us in a game without Amare and Hill. We'd be playing with 6 regulars and a little used backup center. Plus, at least 2 of those regulars are unreliable at best. It's safe to say we'd be scr*wed.

This is why I really hate D'Antoni's rotation. It might work on a game-per-game basis but it's guaranteed to fail in the long run. He relies on the same 8 players night in and night out regardless of how well they're actually playing. Other teams develop their bench and develop their rookies. Whenever the situation calls for it, other teams can dig deep. We can't. So how can we compete?

We have a bad night, and our opponent's 2nd round rookie outscores 3 of our starters. Why? Because we have no backup plan. No other options. We have only one strategy. Play the same 8 guys no matter what and hope for the best.

I really feel bad for DJ and Alando. They might have developed in to much better players by now had they been on another team. Or, they might not have but at least they would've been given the chance to prove themselves on the court.

I realize now that trading away our past picks was a good choice. All those rookies should thank their lucky stars. D'Antoni's an idiot. Until he's replaced, we don't deserve any draft picks.


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## AZsportsDude (Feb 8, 2008)

shoot id even like to see piatkowski out there for some long range damage but yeah i think if the suns don't win a championship this year dantoni's job will and should be on the line.


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## Kekai (Jan 12, 2005)

Pike is done man :dead: I don't want to see him out there, I bet he's retiring after this season. I wouldn't mind seeing the rooks get more PT though, like I said, model how the Detroit Pistons rotate, and work their young guys into the rotation.

But yeah, good post like always Aylwin


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## All Net (Nov 28, 2007)

Im not concerned about the bench rotation as much as Im concerned about our defense. We have no transition defense, we have no zone defense(I dont know why Dantoni insists in this cuz he is not capable of doing it) and we STRUGGLE a lot against good def transition teams, like we did last night against the rockets. This is a not a problem of our players. Its Dantoni the one who needs help from the coaching staff or just needs to gtfo.


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

Aylwin said:


> Our loss to Houston is a good example why D'Antoni's system is stupid. The Rockets play without one of their superstars and another key starter. What happens? They beat us anyway. How? Their bench!
> 
> Granted, Yao has been out for awhile now and they had time to adjust. Still, they're without 2 starters and yet they managed to play 10 guys. So that's a total of 12 players on their team who know how to play and, more importantly, are given a chance to play.
> 
> ...


The Rockets bench have been consistently stepping up. They're like the main reason why they even win games. The starting line up is pretty trash.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Aylwin said:


> Our loss to Houston is a good example why D'Antoni's system is stupid. The Rockets play without one of their superstars and another key starter. What happens? They beat us anyway. How? Their bench!
> 
> Granted, Yao has been out for awhile now and they had time to adjust. Still, they're without 2 starters and yet they managed to play 10 guys. So that's a total of 12 players on their team who know how to play and, more importantly, are given a chance to play.
> 
> ...


So you believe that somehow Piatkowski, DJ Strawberry, and Sean Marks would play better than Nash, Bell, and Hill? I just don't see what your point is. We don't have 10 deep. We have 8. The rest are just practice dummies right now. DJ is too small to play the 2 and not good enough to play the 1. Piatkowski just can't play defense at all anymore, and Marks tries hard but that's about all I can say that's quality about him. Alando I guess just isn't ready or something because he seems to keep going into the D-League while DJ gets real NBA minutes. 

I just don't see why giving a player 10mpg for no reason other than to give him burn is what's holding the Suns back. If we had another 2 guard that could replace Raja then I would be all for it, but all we have are players that can't play the position that they should and that creates size mismatches in favor of the other team. What I see as hurting the Suns is the fact that Raja and LB have played terribly this season on the whole and have only really turned in about 10-20 quality games. If they weren't missing all of their 3 pt shots, layups, and FTs, then the Suns would be sitting on 60 wins right now.


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## Aylwin (Jan 29, 2007)

IceMan23and3 said:


> So you believe that somehow Piatkowski, DJ Strawberry, and Sean Marks would play better than Nash, Bell, and Hill? I just don't see what your point is.


 In what world would 3 reserves play better than 3 starters on a regular basis? You think in order to move from an 8-man rotation to a 10-man rotation, Piatkowski, DJ and Marks need to play better Nash, Bell and Hill? That argument makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. No wonder you don't see my point. Let's see if I can explain it better...



IceMan23and3 said:


> We don't have 10 deep. We have 8.


I completely disagree. In my opinion, Skinner is a lock at number 9. Since Amare is obviously a monster at the PF, we should keep him there and let Shaq and Skinner take turns at center. Diaw could then be used to relieve Amare or even Hill. So like I said in my first post, at the very least we should be a 9-man rotation.

Now on to number 10. Contrary to your argument, I don't believe the reserves need to play better than the starters. They just need to hold down the fort while the starters are resting. For that, we need effort, hustle and most importantly, good defense. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think DJ fits the description. If he can play some minutes every game and not give up too many points then I think he'd have done his job. Remember, he's a rookie. So any playing time he gets goes towards building his experience and confidence. Who's to say he wouldn't be much better by now had he been given the chance to play regularly since the start of the season?

So I still maintain that we could easily have a 10-man rotation. And just so we're clear, I agree with you regarding Piatkowski and Marks. But then I've never ever suggested that they should be part of the rotation.

Do you get my point now? Of course, I don't mind if you disagree and wish to debate. But if you want to argue, it's important for you to understand my logic.

I'm not yet done though. Let's talk about number 11.


IceMan23and3 said:


> Alando I guess just isn't ready or something because he seems to keep going into the D-League while DJ gets real NBA minutes.


For this we'll just have to trust D'Antoni's judgment on this. But since I have no faith in him, I'll offer an alternative possibility. Alando is tearing up the D-League but he's not good enough for a few minutes a game in the NBA? I believe he is. The problem though is that there's no room for a few minutes per game in D'Antoni's stubborn 8-man rotation. A few minutes in a game are only for "practice dummies" during the bottom of the 4th when it's a blowout and the game's already decided. How often does that happen? So what good is there letting Alando rot on the bench and waste the talent?

My theory is that he's good. Better even than DJ. Just not good enough to crack the 8-man rotation. So rather than waste a good player, let's send him to the D-League to develop. It's just like what the Lakers did with Farmar. The only difference is that with the Lakers, Farmar got NBA playing time also and now he's a key contributor.

Under any other coach, I really believe we could probably an 11-man rotation. And more importantly, our rookies would be further along in there development and could even be contributing significantly by now.



IceMan23and3 said:


> I just don't see why giving a player 10mpg for no reason other than to give him burn is what's holding the Suns back.


Well, that's one way to look at it. Another way would be to think that you're planning ahead. Building your arsenal by developing your players' experience and confidence. Skills are nothing without experience and confidence. While you can develop your skills (to a degree) off the court, guess where you develop the other 2? 



IceMan23and3 said:


> If we had another 2 guard that could replace Raja then I would be all for it, but all we have are players that can't play the position that they should and that creates size mismatches in favor of the other team.


Why couldn't DJ be a backup for Raja? DJ hustles and plays good D. He just needs to develop his 3. That and he needs to build his experience and confidence. But what did just say about those 2 things? It's a chicken or egg thing. We can't play DJ because he's not ready. But then he can't get ready because we don't play him. In this case though, it's clear to me what needs to come first. To repeat myself, if we made the investment since the beginning of the season then who knows how good he'd be?



IceMan23and3 said:


> What I see as hurting the Suns is the fact that Raja and LB have played terribly this season on the whole and have only really turned in about 10-20 quality games. If they weren't missing all of their 3 pt shots, layups, and FTs, then the Suns would be sitting on 60 wins right now.


Again, I have the same argument. Not many players in the NBA can be consistently good night in and night out. On other teams, if someone has a bad night, someone else might be able to step up. It's important to have other options. Other teams do, we don't. 

And why don't we? It's because in our system we only use 8 players. Honestly, would it really matter if Piatkowksi could still play D? Or if Marks was any good? If you're not better than the top 8 players in our team, then you're not going to play. Simple as that. And the more you don't play, the worse you get because you'll only be used as a "practice dummy". I can't repeat it enough: Players need experience and confidence, and you can't get either by sitting on the bench.

This is why I'm getting tired of these draft pick discussions. If we don't have a high enough pick to get someone who is instantly better than LB, Diaw or Giricek then why should we even bother? All I can think of is: Poor kid! He's either going to rot on the bench or be shipped off to the D-League.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Aylwin said:


> In what world would 3 reserves play better than 3 starters on a regular basis? You think in order to move from an 8-man rotation to a 10-man rotation, Piatkowski, DJ and Marks need to play better Nash, Bell and Hill? That argument makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. No wonder you don't see my point. Let's see if I can explain it better...
> 
> I completely disagree. In my opinion, Skinner is a lock at number 9. Since Amare is obviously a monster at the PF, we should keep him there and let Shaq and Skinner take turns at center. Diaw could then be used to relieve Amare or even Hill. So like I said in my first post, at the very least we should be a 9-man rotation.


At any given point in the game, the players coming in need to contribute. On top of that, they need to earn it in practice. Since I don't watch practices on a daily basis, I can't comment on whether they bust their humps for the coaches. 


> Now on to number 10. Contrary to your argument, I don't believe the reserves need to play better than the starters. They just need to hold down the fort while the starters are resting. For that, we need effort, hustle and most importantly, good defense. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think DJ fits the description. If he can play some minutes every game and not give up too many points then I think he'd have done his job. Remember, he's a rookie. So any playing time he gets goes towards building his experience and confidence. Who's to say he wouldn't be much better by now had he been given the chance to play regularly since the start of the season?


He still doesn't have the skills to be in the league, he's too small


> So I still maintain that we could easily have a 10-man rotation. And just so we're clear, I agree with you regarding Piatkowski and Marks. But then I've never ever suggested that they should be part of the rotation.
> 
> Do you get my point now? Of course, I don't mind if you disagree and wish to debate. But if you want to argue, it's important for you to understand my logic.
> 
> ...


So good that we signed some dude with the exact same body type as him to play on a 10 day contract and played him more than Alando has been played this ENTIRE season?



> Under any other coach, I really believe we could probably an 11-man rotation. And more importantly, our rookies would be further along in there development and could even be contributing significantly by now.
> 
> Well, that's one way to look at it. Another way would be to think that you're planning ahead. Building your arsenal by developing your players' experience and confidence. Skills are nothing without experience and confidence. While you can develop your skills (to a degree) off the court, guess where you develop the other 2?
> 
> Why couldn't DJ be a backup for Raja? DJ hustles and plays good D. He just needs to develop his 3. That and he needs to build his experience and confidence. But what did just say about those 2 things? It's a chicken or egg thing. We can't play DJ because he's not ready. But then he can't get ready because we don't play him. In this case though, it's clear to me what needs to come first. To repeat myself, if we made the investment since the beginning of the season then who knows how good he'd be?


He's too small. I remember the Lakers game where D'Antoni put him on Kobe. DJ was playing PERFECT defense, I have never seen anyone stay with Kobe like that, but it didn't matter because he was too small and couldn't get a hand up to bother Kobe's shot. I think DJ is going to be a great NBA player for a long time in this league, but only as a PG. 



> Again, I have the same argument. Not many players in the NBA can be consistently good night in and night out. On other teams, if someone has a bad night, someone else might be able to step up. It's important to have other options. Other teams do, we don't.
> 
> And why don't we? It's because in our system we only use 8 players. Honestly, would it really matter if Piatkowksi could still play D? Or if Marks was any good? If you're not better than the top 8 players in our team, then you're not going to play. Simple as that. And the more you don't play, the worse you get because you'll only be used as a "practice dummy". I can't repeat it enough: Players need experience and confidence, and you can't get either by sitting on the bench.
> 
> This is why I'm getting tired of these draft pick discussions. If we don't have a high enough pick to get someone who is instantly better than LB, Diaw or Giricek then why should we even bother? All I can think of is: Poor kid! He's either going to rot on the bench or be shipped off to the D-League.


They need to draft based off of need. We need an athletic 6'8 guy that can shoot the 3pt shot and defend. That's like half the NCAA.


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## Aylwin (Jan 29, 2007)

IceMan23and3 said:


> They need to draft based off of need. We need an athletic 6'8 guy that can shoot the 3pt shot and defend. That's like half the NCAA.


This, I agree. My only concern is, if we do draft such a player (or any other type of player who'd fit well with us) will he immediately be a top 8 player on our team. In other words, will the guy get to play? If not, then what's the point. In our system, we don't give time for players to develop.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Aylwin said:


> This, I agree. My only concern is, if we do draft such a player (or any other type of player who'd fit well with us) will he immediately be a top 8 player on our team. In other words, will the guy get to play? If not, then what's the point. In our system, we don't give time for players to develop.


Is that why LB got time to develop? The fact of the matter is that most NBA players don't make it past their rookie contracts. You can't blame the coach for that. How many players are in the league for more than a few seasons after being picked later than #20? It happens but rarely.


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## Aylwin (Jan 29, 2007)

IceMan23and3 said:


> Is that why LB got time to develop?


LB was already there. D'Antoni joined 20 games or so into the season. So LB probably had some time to adjust to the NBA by then. As a new coach, I don't think he'd immediately shake up the rotation. If LB was already playing when D'Antoni got there then most likely he'd continue to play until he no longer deserved to. In addition to that, I believe the 2003-2004 Suns were riddled with injuries. And looking at their roster, it's not like they had too many other options.

So all those things considered, of course LB got to play.

Now I wonder how DJ or Alando would be if they got to play the first 20 or so games of this season? Probably they'd be back on the bench or back in the D-League because it's true that not many rookies make it. *BUT*, at least we'd find out.

If you're not happy with that argument, here's another:

LB started playing pro ball in Brazil when he was 17 (1999). In 2002-2003, he averaged 28.2 points, 7 assists and 4 rebounds per game. By the time he joined the NBA in the 2003-2004 season, not only was he already a pro, he was a veteran. So how much time do you think he'd need to "develop"?

Now, combine my first argument with the 2nd argument and then try to compare that with a bunch of kids fresh from college...

Oh, and regarding DJ's size, he's 6'5". Michael Jordan is 6'6". That's not a big difference if you ask me. I'm sure I could find other reasonably good shooting guards who are 6'5" or less but I'm too lazy.


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## Kekai (Jan 12, 2005)

I wish we could get someone like JR Smith minus the off court problems. Someone who will come in and bring the energy off the bench with his athletic ability, and can rain some 3's.


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## All Net (Nov 28, 2007)

I wish we could get someone like Josh Smith, or Artest.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Aylwin said:


> LB was already there. D'Antoni joined 20 games or so into the season. So LB probably had some time to adjust to the NBA by then. As a new coach, I don't think he'd immediately shake up the rotation. If LB was already playing when D'Antoni got there then most likely he'd continue to play until he no longer deserved to. In addition to that, I believe the 2003-2004 Suns were riddled with injuries. And looking at their roster, it's not like they had too many other options.
> 
> So all those things considered, of course LB got to play.
> 
> ...


The only good point here is Jordan vs DJ. LB earned his minutes and even got a D'Antoni's attention from the get go with his work ethic, talent, nature. He also didn't have to really compete for a rotation spot either. However, players like James Jones could find minutes when "stars" like Jalen Rose couldn't. The Suns were incredibly short on the PG situation, signed Banks but wouldn't play him. Why? Probably because he didn't work hard to deserve play over guys who bust their butts for the team.


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## Aylwin (Jan 29, 2007)

IceMan23and3 said:


> The only good point here is Jordan vs DJ. LB earned his minutes and even got a D'Antoni's attention from the get go with his work ethic, talent, nature. He also didn't have to really compete for a rotation spot either. However, players like James Jones could find minutes when "stars" like Jalen Rose couldn't. The Suns were incredibly short on the PG situation, signed Banks but wouldn't play him. Why? Probably because he didn't work hard to deserve play over guys who bust their butts for the team.


Again, you miss my point. If you go back a few posts, you'll see that I was arguing that it's useless for the Suns to have rookies who are not good enough to be in our top 8 since they won't see any playing time and D'Antoni won't give them time to develop. You then argued that D'Antoni gave LB time to develop. I countered that 1) LB was already there when D'Antoni arrived and, therefore, probably had some time already to adjust; and 2) LB didn't really need time to develop anyway since he's already a pro.

And now, you respond by talking about James Jones, Jalen Rose and Markus Banks? To me, that's not logical to the current flow of the discussion. But okay, fine. I'll assume that there's no more evidence to deny that there's no room for developing rookies in D'Antoni's system. 

So to summarize my point on one of the main disadvantages of D'Antoni's tight 8-man rotation:
Rookies on our team have very little chance, to develop, gain experience and build confidence, *unless* they're already so good that they're among the 8 best players on the team who are suited to D'Antoni's system.

I hope that's clear enough. Now as for your most recent post, it's no longer about rookies but rather the rotation itself. I'll come back to that later as I have some stuff to do now...


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## Aylwin (Jan 29, 2007)

Okay, back to business...



IceMan23and3 said:


> LB earned his minutes and even got a D'Antoni's attention from the get go with his work ethic, talent, nature. He also didn't have to really compete for a rotation spot either.


Not much point in debating this. I never argued against LB's place on the roster. I only discussed LB because you said, "Is that why LB got time to develop?". My response, if it's not already clear, is that LB didn't need any time to develop. And if he did, it wasn't because of D'Antoni. LB is clearly a top 8 player on our team so of course he's part of the rotation. No argument there.



IceMan23and3 said:


> However, players like James Jones could find minutes when "stars" like Jalen Rose couldn't.


 Jalen Rose in 2007 at 34 years of age, a star? Perhaps a bit of history is in order. Jalen Rose *was* a star when he was still with the Pacers. He reached his peak in 2000. After being traded to the Bulls, he was still good but his stardom was beginning to fade. With the Raptors, I guess he was okay but definitely no longer a star. With the Knicks, he was no longer a factor and was eventually waived. So by the time he joined the Suns, what type of player do you think we got?

No way was he going to be a top 8 player on our team. And that automatically means just a few minutes of playing time every once in awhile.

Oh, and James Jones is 7 years younger, shoots the 3 and can defend. How can you compare the two? Did I mention he's 7 years younger than Rose?



IceMan23and3 said:


> The Suns were incredibly short on the PG situation, signed Banks but wouldn't play him. Why? Probably because he didn't work hard to deserve play over guys who bust their butts for the team.


Well, that's just your assumption based on your faith in D'Antoni as a coach. Since I don't trust him as much as you do, I have a different assumption. 

My main issue with D'Antoni is his insistence on a tight 8-man rotation that is both stubborn and inflexible. This causes all sorts of problems and disadvantages for the team. One of them is that you lose the ability to develop your rookies and young players. This I've already explained.

When Marcus Banks joined the Suns it was only his 3rd year in the NBA so he was still a work in progress. Other players on the Suns roster at the time were: Kurt Thomas, Amare, Marion, Diaw, Bell, Nash, Junior and LB. You think Banks was better than any of those 8 players? With D'Antoni's strict rotation, if the answer was no then Banks wasn't going to play. Simple as that.

Another issue is that since only the 8 best players on the team get to play regularly, the other players on the team lose their confidence and go in decline. When Marcus Banks came over, he was coming off a successful stint with the Wolves (that's why we paid him the big bucks). Now all of a sudden he becomes a garbage time player. How do you think that's going to affect his confidence and ability to play?

And I don't think it's his fault. I don't think he was lazy in practice or that he didn't deserve to play. It fact, it probably wouldn't matter how hard he busted his butt off in practice. It was just an unfortunate fact that he was not one of the best 8 players on the team. And that meant he didn't get to play.

Actually though, Marcus did get to play for awhile because of injuries among the regular rotation. And he did show some potential. But then the regular guys would got better and it was back to the bench. In my opinion, that's no way to develop young players. And for that, I blame D'Antoni's 8-man rotation.

Another reason I think Marcus didn't get to play is because his style didn't suit D'Antoni's offensive system. D'Antoni's offense is good but not flexible (much like his 8-man rotation). So it's not that Marcus was bad. He just didn't fit in. It could've been be a mistake to get him in the first place. Or, it could be D'Antoni's fault for not being flexible enough to adjust. I think a good coach should be flexible and creative enough to bring out the best in the players he has. Of course, every coach has their own style but they have to be able to adapt to various situations.


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## Aylwin (Jan 29, 2007)

If there's still any doubt that D'Antoni's 8-man rotation is stupid, check this out:
http://www.nba.com/games/20080416/PORPHX/boxscore.html

The bench can play... when given the chance.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Aylwin said:


> If there's still any doubt that D'Antoni's 8-man rotation is stupid, check this out:
> http://www.nba.com/games/20080416/PORPHX/boxscore.html
> 
> The bench can play... when given the chance.


Other than Marks who won't play if Skinner plays, the bench was pretty mediocre. Tucker needs a jump shot, I can see why he is in the D-League, he needs to develop a better shot but I can see him being an Arenas like player. DJ needs an outside shot too but Piatkowski is dead weight. DJ and Tucker were a combined 4-18 last night. DJ did a great job of playmaking though!


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## Aylwin (Jan 29, 2007)

IceMan23and3 said:


> Other than Marks who won't play if Skinner plays, the bench was pretty mediocre.


 That's true. But despite being mediocre, they still managed to beat Portland for 1 entire half all by themselves. If they could do that to Portland then they could probably do that to 1/3 of the teams in the NBA. I doubt they'd be able to win a whole game by themselves but that's not the purpose of the bench.



IceMan23and3 said:


> Tucker needs a jump shot, I can see why he is in the D-League, he needs to develop a better shot but I can see him being an Arenas like player. DJ needs an outside shot too but Piatkowski is dead weight. DJ and Tucker were a combined 4-18 last night. DJ did a great job of playmaking though!


I completely agree. DJ and Tucker still need a lot of development. But consider this: DJ's output in the game was more than LB's (granted, he played twice as long). And Tucker, who played about as much as Diaw, was also more productive.

This is yet another example of why I hate this 8-man rotation. If LB is having a bad night, who's to say the Suns wouldn't be better off with DJ instead? If Diaw's having a bad night (which is most nights), why not let Marks or even Tucker have a go to see if they can do better. If not, then it's back to the bench for them. But at least give them a chance.

D'Antoni lives and dies by his 8-man rotation. And it seems that nothing is more important than maintaining it. There's almost no room for making adjustments through the course of the game.


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