# Vince Carter to Nets



## MJG

*Vince Carter to Nets?*

From ESPN's front page ...


> League sources have told ESPN Insider Chad Ford that the Nets and Raptors are in serious talks about a trade that would send Vince Carter to the Nets for Alonzo Mourning, Eric Williams, Aaron Williams and two first-round draft picks.


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## Locke

*Vince to the Nets*

For Zo, Aaron Williams, Eric Williams and 2 1st rounders.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=194844


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## The_Franchise

What happened to rebuilding? I guess this trade could fill seats while they are still in NJ.


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## schub

Whoa. Out of nowhere.

Losing EWill and the draft picks is tough, but Train is dead weight at this point, and Mourning's contract and attitude suck.


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## ThaShark316

VC and Kidd? 

Do the Nets have that much space on the Injured List?

Nah seriously...pretty good deal if VC is healthy. (ok maybe thats wishful thinking)


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## HB

Kidd, VC, Jefferson that sounds like a pretty interesting trio. Does that make them contenders?


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## MJG

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> Kidd, VC, Jefferson that sounds like a pretty interesting trio. Does that make them contenders?


They're a contender for the division title even before this deal.


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## Amareca

My fantasy team would like it.


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## Amareca

I just recently saw a report about Eric Williams. How happy he was to sign with his hometown team etc....

Way to handle your FAs..... but it's not like I expected class since Jason Kidd supposedly has his fingers involved in this.

And of course this will probably overshadow which should be a great basketball night.


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## schub

Nets would lose 3 roster spots, so they'd need to start digging for big men in the CBA and NBDL.

Rotation looks like this at this point:

1. Kidd/Best/Vaughn
2. Jefferson/Mercer*/Planinic*
3. Carter/Dickens
4. Scalabrine/Smith
5. Collins/Krstic


1/2 becomes heavier, and the 4/5 becomes lighter.

Makes me wonder if there's not a Carter for Rahim trade following this one. Would allow Portland to get Carter without Rose.


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## MemphisX

Very risky for NJ.

Capped out with just RJ, Kidd, VC, Mercer, Planicic, and Kristic under contract in 2005. Giving away their draft picks and nothing to trade for a big man.

I will give Ratner this, it will keep the fans entertained until the new stadium is built but this team is going to be nothing on the interior.


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## Pan Mengtu

Raptors get away with robbery on this one. two 1st round picks that are definitely going to be lottery picks? Sounds about right. Zo ain't bad either.


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## Debt Collector

ahh, the daily vince to the NY/NJ area rumor


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## Giraldo

I don't really understand why the nets do this trade. I guess it would put fans in the seats and sell Jerseys.

Great trade for TOR, they need to change the attitude of the team, and this would be a great solution, and help them rebuild.


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## kg_mvp03-04

The Raps get robbed here, if Carter and kidd hook up right the Nets will not have lottery picks. Also if i were the raps i would have tried to pry aways a young prospect instead of taking ZO and then having him turn into Hakeem Olajuwon part II for the Raptors, sitting on the bench in a suit and taking up cap space.


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## Schilly

I would think a 3 team deal with Portland would make more sense.


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## Numbed One

If this goes down, you rape the Raptors. Why would we want Zo? Eric Williams is nice, but not for Carter, and A-Williams is crap.

BLARG.


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## amd pwr

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> If this goes down, you rape the Raptors. Why would we want Zo? Eric Williams is nice, but not for Carter, and A-Williams is crap.
> 
> BLARG.


Draft picks make everything seems fair. Its like five players for one.


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## Bartholomew Hunt

*Nets and Raptors - Done Deal.*

Vince Carter to New Jersey for Alonzo Mourning and others including two first round picks. Reported on ESPN.


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## mediocre man

I can't help but think that this is Toronta trying to use any leverage they have to get Portland to take on Roses contract.


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## schub

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> If this goes down, you rape the Raptors. Why would we want Zo? Eric Williams is nice, but not for Carter, and A-Williams is crap.
> 
> BLARG.



Raptors might buy Mourning out.


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## Numbed One

> Originally posted by <b>amd pwr</b>!
> 
> 
> Draft picks make everything seems fair. Its like five players for one.



Yeah, a freakin' 20-30 pick and a lottery protected pick. Great deal  

Not fair at all, pick or not. Its not like these are prime first rounders.


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## Numbed One

> Originally posted by <b>schub</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Raptors might buy Mourning out.



And that doesn't make it any better, it makes it worse if anything... WTF


Go check the Raptors board's trade thread for Raps fans opinions.


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## Spriggan

The Nets will have a nice perimeter trio but possibly the worst frontcourt in the entire league.


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## mediocre man

LOL it's official. So maybe I could have been wrong


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## Bartholomew Hunt

The deal is supposedly done. Nets obviously get the best in this. The Raptors couldn't do any better than this for Vince?


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## Numbed One

It is not a done deal.


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## Kuskid

What I'm curious about is, if this trade does go through (which sounds like a probability) what does New Jersey do about the 4 and 5 spots???? Collins and Scalabrine? Yeah, they're gonna get it done, especially with pretty much no one backing them up. Anyways, I predict a JKidd to Vince dish as the play of the year right now (once again, if it goes through).


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## jmk

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, a freakin' 20-30 pick and a lottery protected pick. Great deal
> 
> Not fair at all, pick or not. Its not like these are prime first rounders.


It has not been expressed which picks will be sent.

As bad as Vince has been this year, just the thought of Kidd, Vince, and RJ on the fastbreak is bringing me tingles.


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## schub

Awaiting league approval according to ESPN radio.


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## jmk

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> Raptors get away with robbery on this one. two 1st round picks that are definitely going to be lottery picks? Sounds about right. Zo ain't bad either.


Perhaps you should read up on those draft picks.


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## jmk

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> It is not a done deal.


Actually, the deal is done. The only thing left is for the league to approve it and physicals.


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## Arclite

I think it isn't a bad gamble for New Jersey. I mean with the Denver picks and all, they were looking at what, 7 first rounders in the next three years or something?


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## Numbed One

> Originally posted by <b>Arclite</b>!
> I think it isn't a bad gamble for New Jersey. I mean with the Denver picks and all, they were looking at what, 7 first rounders in the next three years or something?



Of course it isn't a bad trade for NJ... they're fleecing the Raptors.


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## Pan Mengtu

Raptors with another steal. They get the superior player, 2 decent roleplayers and 2 first rounders (which will be lottery). Man, they really cleaned up on this one.


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## Shadows

Deal is done

http://www.tsn.ca/nba/news_story.asp?ID=108372&hubName=nba

Toronto Radio (fan 590) is reporting that ZO is about to be dealt to another team


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## Numbed One

> Originally posted by <b>Shadows</b>!
> Deal is done
> 
> http://www.tsn.ca/nba/news_story.asp?ID=108372&hubName=nba
> 
> Toronto Radio (fan 590) is reporting that ZO is about to be dealt to another team



Right away? I'm listening to it too and I haven't heard anything outside of saying the Raps would PROBABLY deal him off somewhere else.


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## ToddMacCulloch11

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/breaking_news/story/263034p-225221c.html

According to that article:



> The two first-round picks - from Denver and Philadelphia — were acquired in the Kenyon Martin trade.



Carters been down this year, but I think playing with Kidd will probably help him out some.

It just leaves us really weak up front...Collins, Veal, Nenad and...jabari smith? Thats not good. We should sign Malone (I know, there is about a 0% chance, but he's probably the best of 
whats out there)

I don't mind getting rid of Zo...he didn't want to be here, who konws what is up with his health, and that contract was bad...Ewill has been playing nice, but I think that VC would be better playing with Kidd then Ewill has been.

And aaron, its sad to see him go, but if we weren't gonna use him, might as well send him...although I'd like having him around now that we've got nothing.


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## schub

Picks are reportedly Denver and Philly:

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/breaking_news/story/263034p-225221c.html

*Philadelphia 2005*, protected 1-8 or 2006, protected 1-5 or 2007, unprotected

*Denver 2006*, protected 1-5, 2007, protected 1-2, 2008, unprotected.


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## Pan Mengtu

> Originally posted by <b>Shadows</b>!
> Deal is done
> 
> http://www.tsn.ca/nba/news_story.asp?ID=108372&hubName=nba
> 
> Toronto Radio (fan 590) is reporting that ZO is about to be dealt to another team


That sounds stupid. You needed a center to play alongside Bosh, now you have one.


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## mofo202

Out of absoloutely nowhere. I'm am really excited that it's official because Vince will absoloutely thrive with Jason Kidd. I can't wait to see the highlights. Kidd/Vince/Jefferson is awesome. This is a situation where Vince can make his name credible again.


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## Bartholomew Hunt

My first thought was that the Raptors could have done better. But Eric and Aaron Williams are solid role players. I'm glad that the organization is supporting Sam Mitchell, because these are his type of guys. I bet he asked for them.


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## ToddMacCulloch11

> Originally posted by <b>mofo202</b>!
> Out of absoloutely nowhere. I'm am really excited that it's official because Vince will absoloutely thrive with Jason Kidd. I can't wait to see the highlights. Kidd/Vince/Jefferson is awesome. This is a situation where Vince can make his name credible again.



I agree...I totally wasn't expecting it. They've been talking about Vince to Portland or NY for so long, and then this. Its crazy.


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## RP McMurphy

Hahaha, Vince Carter's value was so low that the Raptors couldn't even leverage him to dump one of their bad contracts.

This is still the best thing for the Raptors, because now most of the players in their rotation are guys who care about winning, and their best player, Rafer Alston, isn't going to feel alienated by a locker room full of losers. The only loser they still have is Jalen Rose, and it would have been nice if they could have dumped him, but obviously no one was willing to trade for him.

The Raptors should have closed the book on the Vinsanity Era last year. Now that they finally have a legitimate center -- actually, they have two of them now -- I wouldn't be surprised to see them make a push for the playoffs, and this should help Chris Bosh develop as well.

The Nets? Meh. Maybe a change of scenery could be good for Vince, but this has all the hallmarks of a franchise-killing trade.


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## Pan Mengtu

No, he's finished.


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## jmk

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> 
> The Nets? Meh. Maybe a change of scenery could be good for Vince, but this has all the hallmarks of a franchise-killing trade.


A franchise-killing trade? For who? To me, at least, Eric Williams and Alonzo Mourning don't really scream out "franchise" to me.


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## jmk

As lackluster Vince has been this year, this is a great trade for the Nets. 

By the way, the picks have been revealed to be Denver's and Philly's.


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## ToddMacCulloch11

> Originally posted by <b>jmk</b>!
> 
> 
> A franchise-killing trade? For who? To me, at least, Eric Williams and Alonzo Mourning don't really scream out "franchise" to me.


I agree...if it was Kidd or RJ for Carter, then maybe I could consider it franchise killing...but a role player (although, Eric had been playing very well for us lately) and an older/hurt center with a bad contract who didn't want to play for this team? I'm not seeing how that will kill the franchise. 

Vince isn't what he used to be, but playing with Kidd and in a new scene, maybe it'll revitalize him.


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## Pan Mengtu

> Originally posted by <b>jmk</b>!
> 
> 
> A franchise-killing trade? For who? To me, at least, Eric Williams and Alonzo Mourning don't really scream out "franchise" to me.


Mourning is better than Carter. The Williams and 1st round picks were just give aways.


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## Amareca

> Originally posted by <b>jmk</b>!
> 
> 
> A franchise-killing trade? For who? To me, at least, Eric Williams and Alonzo Mourning don't really scream out "franchise" to me.


Why ? Because you just got another huge contract on your books and one of the most injury prone players.

Your team will go nowhere with that roster.

Kidd , Carter and Jefferson is a worse and more injury prone version of Kidd, Penny and Marion back then.

With less frontcourt support. Basically none.

And for a higher cost.


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## ToddMacCulloch11

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> Mourning is better than Carter. The Williams and 1st round picks were just give aways.


I wouldn't go that far....


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## RP McMurphy

> Originally posted by <b>jmk</b>!
> A franchise-killing trade? For who? To me, at least, Eric Williams and Alonzo Mourning don't really scream out "franchise" to me.


Well, I was assuming that the Nets would be losing their own lottery picks. If your team sucks and you don't have a draft pick, that's just about the worst situation a team can be in. If they're only trading the Denver and Philadelphia picks, I guess it's not so bad, although I still have a bad feeling about how things are going to work out in New Jersey.


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## Amareca

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> That sounds stupid. You needed a center to play alongside Bosh, now you have one.


Zo wants to play for a contender


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## Pan Mengtu

:laugh: On any other team in the NBA Carter would be fighting for a starting job.


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## Pure Scorer

I don't like this trade for the nets... personally, i don't see this as a championship team. they would have been better off getting some young prospects for kidd + using their draft picks and building around krstic/jefferson.

The raptors on the other hand, made a good trade. 
Mourning isn't going to be healthy all the time, but when he is he'll contribute. He'll also help chris bosh/rafael araujo, especially in the post (on both sides). Eric + aaron williams are both tough guys who hustle. They'll be good bench players for the raptors. And they'll most likely have 3 first round draft picks next year. I think this trade is basically the raptors throwing in the towel for the year, but they're still a pretty decent team and could still make the playoffs in the east.


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## Pacers Fan

The Nets should have a very good PG, SG, SF combination when they're all healthy, but I think they should've addressed their frontcourt before their backcourt. Very good deal for the Raptors, they get some frontcourt help and veterans, and some picks to help rebuild with. This just assuming the deal does go through.


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## arcade_rida

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> :laugh: On any other team in the NBA Carter would be fighting for a starting job.


Cavs? Heat? Bobcats? Clippers? La Lakers? I think not


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## truth

wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

great deal; for the nets....Anyone think Zo is going to retire due to medical reasons??


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## jmk

Alonzo was great for New Jersey in regards to rebounding and shotblocking, but on the offensive end he was a black hole. Everytime he touched the ball in the paint you knew a shot was going up.

New Jersey got the better of the deal.


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## Amareca

Kidd roughly 5yrs/90M$ left
Carter 4yrs/58M$ left
Jefferson 6yrs/80M$ left

No frontcourt....

---------------------------------------

Bottom Line = That's bad

Carter and Kidd both are cancers. I can't wait to see what happens if they don't win and both cry trade.


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## Pan Mengtu

> Originally posted by <b>arcade_rida</b>!
> 
> 
> Cavs? Heat? Bobcats? Clippers? La Lakers? I think not


Yep, he'd be fighting for starting job on all those teams. Might get it on a couple, but he'd be fighting for it.


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## Ballscientist

> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> Kidd roughly 5yrs/90M$ left
> Carter 4yrs/58M$ left
> Jefferson 6yrs/80M$ left
> 
> No frontcourt....
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> 
> Bottom Line = That's bad
> 
> Carter and Kidd both are cancers. I can't wait to see what happens if they don't win and both cry trade.


Be patient, Nets will have more deals coming up.


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## arcade_rida

> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> Kidd roughly 5yrs/90M$ left
> Carter 4yrs/58M$ left
> Jefferson 6yrs/80M$ left
> 
> No frontcourt....
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> 
> Bottom Line = That's bad
> 
> Carter and Kidd both are cancers. I can't wait to see what happens if they don't win and both cry trade.


I wouldnt say Carter and Kidd are cancers.. but I believe that they are in big trouble because they dont have any money for a front court player


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## jmk

> Originally posted by <b>Amareca</b>!
> Kidd roughly 5yrs/90M$ left
> Carter 4yrs/58M$ left
> Jefferson 6yrs/80M$ left
> 
> No frontcourt....
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> 
> Bottom Line = That's bad
> 
> Carter and Kidd both are cancers. I can't wait to see what happens if they don't win and both cry trade.


You act as if the Nets were a championship team before this trade. They weren't. The Nets were a lottery team before this trade. Who knows, it's very possible that New Jersey makes another deal for a frontcourt player. I'm very happy if Kidd, RJ, Vince, Krstic, and Collins is the starting lneup. The problem is frontcourt depth. I see that being taken care of in time, though.


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## tdizzle

*Raptors trade Vince Carter to Nets*

*Sources: Raptors, Nets agree to trade Carter* (12-17-04)

NEW JERSEY NETS:
Vince Carter

TORONTO RAPTORS:
Alonzo Mourning & Aaron Williams & Eric Williams & Two 1st Round Draft Picks


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## ThaShark316

I know this might be wishful thinking,but if VC is healthy...NJ will be a nice running team for years to come. Only problems besides VC's health.....

1. Lack of Depth (they make the Rockets depth look like the Memphis Grizzlies)

2. Frontcourt (terrible,jus terrible)

Other than that,they'll be ok...VC's health IMO is the main concern...A VERY BIG CONCERN.


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## ToddMacCulloch11

> Originally posted by <b>truth</b>!
> Anyone think Zo is going to retire due to medical reasons??


I don't know...I think those injuries are gonna take a while to come back from, regarldess of how bad they actually are...unless the raptors are gonna trade him/release him, then I think he might heal up right away.


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## Amareca

What are the Nets going to trade for frontcourt depth? LOL

Every team wants that and nobody gives up frontcourt players just like that. Much less capable players which the Nets need.

Yeah the Nets might have been lottery material this year but they needed to be to rebuild.

Now they will be stuck in mediocrity with a big chance of a huge catastrophe in their future.

I'd bet any dollars that I have that Jason Kidd forced the Nets into this. That would be so typical.


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## jdg

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> Yep, he'd be fighting for starting job on all those teams. Might get it on a couple, but he'd be fighting for it.


So, you are saying he wouldn't start over Ira Newble, Rasual Butler, Damon Jones, whoever the Bobcats have starting, or Caron Butler?

So, he would be fighting for a spot on the Clippers because of Maggette, but any other team, he would definitely be starting. I I'm pretty sure the Clippers could sit Bobby Simmons and let Vince play his position.


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## Sánchez AF

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> :laugh: On any other team in the NBA Carter would be fighting for a starting job.



OK lets check !

Atlanta ------ They can use Vince more than any other team
Boston ------ He can start with PP
Bobcats ----- Enough said
Bulls --------- Bulls can use him instead Of Duhon Kirk - Kirk Vince
Cavs --------- Vince overr Ira easy
Dallas -------- Full of Sg-Sf but he can start over J. Stack
Denver ------ they need a SG any SG 
Detroit ------ He probably can start and Prince playing we Det need D
GS ----------- he can start over Dunleavy
Houston ---- Vince over jim jackson
Indy --------- enough
Clippers ---- VINCE over Simmons
Lakers ------ The lakers would kill for have Vince
Memphis --- White Chocolate Bonzi and Vince
Miami ------- Vince over Rasual easy pick
Bucks ------- He can start over Desmond mason or KVH
Minny ------ He can start over Wally
NO ---------- David Wesley plz
NY ---------- they wasnt him
Orlando --- He starting With Cuttino coming from the becnh
Phila ------- He could start over Willie G. or Salmons
Phonix ----- Probably
Kings ------ He could start over D. Christie
SA. --------- Parker.Manu.Vince
Sonics ----- Probably
Utah ------- Gordan Giricek ? Matt Harpring ? PLZ
Wizards --- He could start over Hughes anyday.


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## Pan Mengtu

> Originally posted by <b>jdg</b>!
> 
> 
> So, you are saying he wouldn't start over Ira Newble, Rasual Butler, Damon Jones, whoever the Bobcats have starting, or Caron Butler?
> 
> So, he would be fighting for a spot on the Clippers because of Maggette, but any other team, he would definitely be starting. I I'm pretty sure the Clippers could sit Bobby Simmons and let Vince play his position.


Nope, I used the word fighting for a reason. Bogans or Hart both have a shot at him. So does Damon Jones. Maggette, Simmons, and Butler are both better than him, for sure.


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## Sánchez AF

Yeah but the thing what the Raptors can get for Zo ???


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## crimsonice

I'm officially a nets fan now...

It was a risk on NJ's part (injuries), but I think it'll be well worth it. Vince will give you guys 23/5/5 with a much higher FG% with kidd around... and he is a clutch player.

I still can't believe toronto made this trade...


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## Amareca

They will probably buy out Zo's contract.

Did New Jersey send cash in that deal?


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## Pan Mengtu

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> OK lets check !
> 
> Atlanta ------ They can use Vince more than any other team
> Boston ------ He can start with PP
> Bobcats ----- Enough said
> Bulls --------- Bulls can use him instead Of Duhon Kirk - Kirk Vince
> Cavs --------- Vince overr Ira easy
> Dallas -------- Full of Sg-Sf but he can start over J. Stack
> Denver ------ they need a SG any SG
> Detroit ------ He probably can start and Prince playing we Det need D
> GS ----------- he can start over Dunleavy
> Houston ---- Vince over jim jackson
> Indy --------- enough
> Clippers ---- VINCE over Simmons
> Lakers ------ The lakers would kill for have Vince
> Memphis --- White Chocolate Bonzi and Vince
> Miami ------- Vince over Rasual easy pick
> Bucks ------- He can start over Desmond mason or KVH
> Minny ------ He can start over Wally
> NO ---------- David Wesley plz
> NY ---------- they wasnt him
> Orlando --- He starting With Cuttino coming from the becnh
> Phila ------- He could start over Willie G. or Salmons
> Phonix ----- Probably
> Kings ------ He could start over D. Christie
> SA. --------- Parker.Manu.Vince
> Sonics ----- Probably
> Utah ------- Gordan Giricek ? Matt Harpring ? PLZ
> Wizards --- He could start over Hughes anyday.


Since you put "probably" over Allen or Lewis and Johnson or Marion, we'll just have to admit that our opinions of Carter are too far off (you think he's pretty good, I think he's pretty awful), and go our seperate ways.q


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## LuckyAC

Well, certainly he has the potential to be better than those guys. Right now, though, he's definitely looking worse than Simmons, Lewis or Mobley. Still, your general point is good to refute the ridiculous statement that he wouldn't start on most teams.


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## Real McCoy

All I know is, he better stay healthy or this is a trade of awful proportions from the Nets. Kudos to the Toronto front office, for getting him out of town, because he was one injury away from them being stuck with him for the duration.


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## Schilly

Not a Nets fan, but I think this is a terrible trade for the Nets, heres why....


Jason Kidd 14.8mil (signed through 2009)
VInce Carter 12.6mil (signed through 2008)
Richard Jefferson (approximately 9 mill next year signed through 2011)

Estimated salary commited to those 3 players

2005 36.7mil
2006 39.7mil
2007 43.2mil
2008 46.6mil

factor that with trading 2 first round picks, how do they build from here? they are essentially capped out with those 3 plus Jason Collins who just signed through 2009.

Wow!

ANd to top it off no front court to speak of. I think the nets just buriied themselves by relying on 2 guys that are risky in the realm of health, and have big fat cap buster contracts.


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## futuristxen

Good trade for the Raptors. I think a lot of their problems these days was just the poisonous atmosphere around the club. Bringing in guys like Mourning and the Williamses will help Bosh a ton, and keep guys like Raefer Alston sane.

There really wasn't a lot out there for an injured vince carter, and I think it was to the point where they just had to move him for something.

As for the Nets. Um....Good Luck. So does this mean they are still trading Jason Kidd or not? If they trade Kidd for a front court player like SAR, then maybe they can do something with RJ/Vince, and then SAR doing their thing. But if it's just Vince/Kidd/and RJ, BigAmare is right, that experiment has already been tried and it failed.


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## -33-

DAMN I WASN'T PAYING ATTENTION AND MISSED ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY TO BREAK A NEWS STORY ON BB.NET! 

I know some more dirt on this though but I can't talk about it...it could get crazy in the next few days with this deal


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## Captain Obvious

Great deal for Toronto. Vince Carter, in Toronto, is a cancer. Toronto gets some much needed depth up front, and a couple of picks that could turn out to be decent players. They also clear a spot in the lineup for double-double guy Marshall. Now, New Jersey has no frontline. I don't know what they're thinking.

PG- Alston, Palacio
SG- Rose, Peterson
SF- Marshall, Williams, Murray
PF- Bosh, Bonner, Williams
C- Mourning, Woods

That lineup is improved, IMO. New Jersey will be more exciting, but they won't be better.


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## Real McCoy

> Originally posted by <b>Shaq_Diesel</b>!
> DAMN I WASN'T PAYING ATTENTION AND MISSED ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY TO BREAK A NEWS STORY ON BB.NET!
> 
> I know some more dirt on this though but I can't talk about it...it could get crazy in the next few days with this deal


What is the point of saying this, if you can't give any information Chester?


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## schub

When you talk about what this deal does for the Nets, you have to factor in that it keeps Jason Kidd happy.

Trading Mourning may just be addition by subtraction.

I think Carter will benefit from not having to be the leader. He's not even the secondary leader on this team. As long as he's healthy, his play will obviously benefit from Kidd.

Nets definitely need front court help. There could be another, smaller deal in the works. Perhaps, Karl Malone could be brought in.


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## crimsonice

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> Great deal for Toronto. Vince Carter, in Toronto, is a cancer. Toronto gets some much needed depth up front, and a couple of picks that could turn out to be decent players. They also clear a spot in the lineup for double-double guy Marshall. Now, New Jersey has no frontline. I don't know what they're thinking.
> 
> PG- Alston, Palacio
> SG- Rose, Peterson
> SF- Marshall, Murray
> PF- Bosh, Bonner, Williams
> C- Mourning, Woods, Araujo
> 
> That lineup is improved, IMO. New Jersey will be more exciting, but they won't be better.


When has Carter ever been a cancer? He just doesn't want to be there anymore and I can't blame him. Ever since his first injury, the media there has just taken shots at him with every opportunity they had. 

I think Toronto will be in the lottery for many many years to come.

Mourning is not going to want to play in Toronto. Marshall is definitely gone after this season. Rose is the "actual" cancer of the team. He kills the flow of the game for them, and the raptors will have him for 3 more years.


----------



## MemphisX

Nets win this trade because they got the best player. People forget, Vince is dogging it this year. Toronto fans and people who watch Toronto will tell you that Vince teased with flashes of his explosiveness. It is not that he lost it, he just stopped using it this year. 

Before we fly off the handle with uninformed posts like Mourning is better than Vince, rememeber last season Vince was 22,5,5.


----------



## Jordan VS WHO!!

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> Nope, I used the word fighting for a reason. Bogans or Hart both have a shot at him. So does Damon Jones. Maggette, Simmons, and Butler are both better than him, for sure.


Sonny put that jamaican pipe away.. it's starting to affect your thinking.

Vince at 65% health is 125% better than Bogus and Fart. Bulter blows. Maggette and Simmons are good but only Maggette is better than Vince (only at getting to the line). Damon Jones wouldn't be in the NBA today if he couldn't knock the 3 down.

Vince when healthy (ok.. if healthy) and willing, can play better offense and defense than any of the above. If you've ever watched raptors games in the last 3 years, you would know. 

Anyone wanna bet,VC will be back to averaging 20+ in NJ


----------



## Real McCoy

> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> Nets win this trade because they got the best player. People forget, Vince is dogging it this year. Toronto fans and people who watch Toronto will tell you that Vince teased with flashes of his explosiveness. It is not that he lost it, he just stopped using it this year.
> 
> Before we fly off the handle with uninformed posts like Mourning is better than Vince, rememeber last season Vince was 22,5,5.


If he gets hurt again thoug, all bets are off. :uhoh:


----------



## Lakerman33

pretty good deal for the raptors. THey get to bulid with draft pics


----------



## -inVINCEible-

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan VS WHO!!</b>!
> 
> 
> Sonny put that jamaican pipe away.. it's starting to affect your thinking.
> 
> Vince at 65% health is 125% better than Bogus and Fart. Bulter blows. Maggette and Simmons are good but only Maggette is better than Vince (only at getting to the line). Damon Jones wouldn't be in the NBA today if he couldn't knock the 3 down.
> 
> Vince when healthy (ok.. if healthy) and willing, can play better offense and defense than any of the above. If you've ever watched raptors games in the last 3 years, you would know.
> 
> Anyone wanna bet,VC will be back to averaging 20+ in NJ



hahahah yeah i cant believe he said 
Damon "been with 6 teams" Jones is better than VC


----------



## Arclite

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> But if it's just Vince/Kidd/and RJ, BigAmare is right, that experiment has already been tried and it failed.


Actually the experiment was never really tried and certainly never failed - the Suns won 53 and 51 games with Kidd, Marion and Penny, but Penny missed the entire second season and Marion was only a rookie the year they were all (mostly) healthy. But, ultimately there is just no comparison to be made, because unlike this NJ team those Suns team had some nice frontcourt players - Cliffy, RR, Gulgiotta etc.

That trio would have to be very, very, very good to come close to overcoming the incompetence of their frontcourt.


----------



## Debt Collector

this is a high reward trade for the nets. if it doesnt work out, they didnt give up a whole lot exept some mid first round draft picks. if it does work out, which i think it will, it makes the nets the most uptempo team in the east. but this was a better scenario than the vince to NY rumors, in my opinion. 

problem is, now the nets have the weakest big man rotation in the whole NBA. but i fully expect them to make the playoffs


----------



## -33-

well, I'm gonna say that I wouldn't expect Zo to ever wear a Raptors uni


----------



## RP McMurphy

> Originally posted by <b>Arclite</b>!
> Actually the experiment was never really tried and certainly never failed - the Suns won 53 and 51 games with Kidd, Marion and Penny, but Penny missed the entire second season and Marion was only a rookie the year they were all (mostly) healthy. But, ultimately there is just no comparison to be made, because unlike this NJ team those Suns team had some nice frontcourt players - Cliffy, RR, Gulgiotta etc.


I was going to say. People were talking about those Suns teams as though they sucked. Teams that suck don't win 50 games and lose in the first round in a tough Western Conference. You put that team in the East today, they have an outside shot at going to the Finals.

Sadly though, this Nets team has precisely zero shot at being as good as those Suns teams.


----------



## ToddMacCulloch11

> Originally posted by <b>Shaq_Diesel</b>!
> well, I'm gonna say that I wouldn't expect Zo to ever wear a Raptors uni


 I think there were radiostations in Toronto saying that already (I think it was there, i read it somewhere on here)


----------



## Charlie Brown

I heard about this when I was at work and all I can say is wow. If Kidd can get VC to play...this may be a real good Nets team.


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>crimsonice</b>!
> When has Carter ever been a cancer?


Now. It's pretty plain to see he's not liked by Rafer or Bosh, the 2 cornerstones.


----------



## Cap

Remember, NJ got 3 first rounders from the Nuggets for Martin this summer. They can afford to send away two. 

NJ's ownership might not be as stupid as we think. Kittles was way overpaid and Martin was looking for MAX, now they've added VC and just need one solid big in trade or draft and they'll do damage in the LEast. From a business standpoint, VC + Kidd + Jefferson puts people in the seats.

Not bad.


----------



## MightyReds2020

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> 
> Sadly though, this Nets team has precisely zero shot at being as good as those Suns teams.


Oh they are, as long as both Kidd and Vince are healthy. I know that's big 'IF' but talent-wise even Kidd-now is better than Kidd-then. Of course, there's that front-court problems with these NJ team.


----------



## MightyReds2020

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> Not a Nets fan, but I think this is a terrible trade for the Nets, heres why....
> 
> 
> Jason Kidd 14.8mil (signed through 2009)
> VInce Carter 12.6mil (signed through 2008)
> Richard Jefferson (approximately 9 mill next year signed through 2011)
> 
> Estimated salary commited to those 3 players
> 
> 2005 36.7mil
> 2006 39.7mil
> 2007 43.2mil
> 2008 46.6mil
> 
> factor that with trading 2 first round picks, how do they build from here? they are essentially capped out with those 3 plus Jason Collins who just signed through 2009.
> 
> Wow!
> 
> ANd to top it off no front court to speak of. I think the nets just buriied themselves by relying on 2 guys that are risky in the realm of health, and have big fat cap buster contracts.


I don't know what to think of yet because I suspect there'll be another deal or two in upcoming weeks. But you sounds like a guy who applied too much cap stuff into NBA. Not that it is wrong, but sometimes teams will just gamble on this kind of chance. For instance, JKidd is still the man on this team and noone talked about it in this VC trade. JKidd will might players around him better, which will bring up VC's trade value. Sure, this rotation may never win a title, but if anything goes wrong, I believe it is not that hard to make some massive, cap-clearing moves. That's the lesson I learned from Mark Cuban, who always seems to be able to dump bad contracts for another, and again.

I guess what I want to point out is - yes the contracts are bad and teams should avoid it generally. but this is the kind of trade that has possible huge upsides (along with possible huge downsides). This is a gamble that many team would take. Seriously, a happy VC is better than any players in the trade, you can't argued with that.


----------



## MarioChalmers

Kidd/Carter/RJ is very very good, but are they good enough to bounce back from their losing record and go for the playoffs? Really, they can for .500 in the East, but they're already in such a hole that going .500 just won't do. They should just stink it up this year...


----------



## TheRifleman

> Originally posted by <b>Numbed One</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it isn't a bad trade for NJ... they're fleecing the Raptors.


If that were the case, why would the Raptor management do the deal? They are doing what they determine is the best for the Raptor franchise.

Personally, I think the deal is nice for both clubs, as 2 first round picks and eric and aaron williams are role players who produce. Alonzo? Nobody should ever question his devotion - the guy is committed to giving his all. Toronto will be fortunate to have him to help Bosh develop into a great player.


----------



## ToddMacCulloch11

> Originally posted by <b>gian</b>!
> Kidd/Carter/RJ is very very good, but are they good enough to bounce back from their losing record and go for the playoffs? Really, they can for .500 in the East, but they're already in such a hole that going .500 just won't do. They should just stink it up this year...


As bad as they have been, the nets are only 3.5 games out of the lead in their division...just recently got Kidd back, and added Vince Carter, and you're saying they should just give up? 

I think its way way way to early to say give up on the whole year


----------



## :TorontoRaptors:

Moving Carter is addition by subtraction... now we get 2 firsts.


----------



## Real McCoy

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> Personally, I think the deal is nice for both clubs, as 2 first round picks and eric and aaron williams are role players who produce. Alonzo? Nobody should ever question his devotion - the guy is committed to giving his all. Toronto will be fortunate to have him to help Bosh develop into a great player.


Ummm... yeah okay. He's been a nuisance in New Jersey since he got healthy. Yeah he's got devotion all right. Nets fans are glad to see him go.


----------



## schub

Also....

Eric Williams: 32 years old
Aaron Williams: 33 years old
Alonzo Mourning: 34 years old

Vince Carter: 27 years old


----------



## Damian Necronamous

The two first-round picks are...

Denver's 2005 First Round Pick (Top 3 Protected)
Philadelphia's 2005 First Round Pick (Top 8 protected this year and top 6 protected in 2006)

Therefore, they should have two lottery picks this season and one middle-of-the-pack first rounder. Good deal for both teams.


----------



## :TorontoRaptors:

> Originally posted by <b>schub</b>!
> Also....
> 
> Eric Williams: 32 years old
> Aaron Williams: 33 years old
> Alonzo Mourning: 34 years old
> 
> Vince Carter: 27 years old


2 first round picks will allow Toronto to possibly move into the top 3 in the draft.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*The Nets are going to be FUN to watch*

Can you REALLY imagine a healthy Jason Kidd running with wing players like Richard Jefferson and Vince Carter? Once Kidd fully recovers and gets back into the mix, this team is going to be very fast-paced and exciting to watch. Furthermore, I think that a new scenery and playing with Kidd will rejuvenate Carter's career to putting him back to being the 20+ppg scorer that he once was.


----------



## Real McCoy

That's if Carter doesn't end up on the injured list. Risky trade for NJ.


----------



## JNice

I would think there have to be more moves coming. The Nets have almost nobody in their frontcourt. 

Everyone assumes that this means they are trying to keep Kidd, but maybe this was a precursor to a Kidd trade to bring in a couple other players to put around Vince and RJ.

Jason Collins, Nenad Krstic, and Brian Scalabrine just isn't going to cut it, regardless of who they have on the wings.

And I'm assuming with the contracts of Kidd, RJ, and Vince, there isn't any salary cap room coming anytime soon.


----------



## ToddMacCulloch11

I agree. It'll be fun to watch, and I think a change of scene/playing with Kidd will revitalize carter (how much, I don't know).

I don't know how successful the team will be, but they're working on some other deals to probably get a big man, so we'll see.


----------



## HeinzGuderian

I heard that VC's latest injury was actually serious and not just one of his normal breaks from basketball. If he is healthy, I can't wait to see him with Kidd.


----------



## JNice

*Re: The Nets are going to be FUN to watch*



> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Can you REALLY imagine a healthy Jason Kidd running with wing players like Richard Jefferson and Vince Carter? Once Kidd fully recovers and gets back into the mix, this team is going to be very fast-paced and exciting to watch. Furthermore, I think that a new scenery and playing with Kidd will rejuvenate Carter's career to putting him back to being the 20+ppg scorer that he once was.


You need rebounders to run and fastbreak.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

HOLY MOSES!!!!

Guess who Toronto's next game is against?

The Nets, on Sunday! That is going to be a WEIRD game for long-time Raptors/Carter fans.


----------



## TheRifleman

*Re: The Nets are going to be FUN to watch*



> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Can you REALLY imagine a healthy Jason Kidd running with wing players like Richard Jefferson and Vince Carter? Once Kidd fully recovers and gets back into the mix, this team is going to be very fast-paced and exciting to watch. Furthermore, I think that a new scenery and playing with Kidd will rejuvenate Carter's career to putting him back to being the 20+ppg scorer that he once was.


You & I see the same thing when it concerns Kidd and any great wing player. This season keeps getting more interesting with each passing week.

I remember in 96/97 when Kidd, Rex Chapman, Wesley Person, Hotrod Williams,and Danny Manning took the 0/13 starting Suns team to 40/42 and made the playoffs and actually gave the defending western champs a big time scare in that first round. Who knows how good the Nets may be the rest of this season.


----------



## JoeD

Will Vince still be injured for it?


----------



## schub

> Originally posted by <b>:TorontoRaptors:</b>!
> 
> 2 first round picks will allow Toronto to possibly move into the top 3 in the draft.


Yeah, with all those picks, we had been thinking about a trade-up scenario. I'm not saying it's a bad deal for Toronto, I just don't see it as a bad one for the Nets.


----------



## Cockney

Pan Mengtu is just an attention whore, who makes the most outrageous statements to create controversy in here. He's like:"I'ma say something like "Jason Hart is as good as Carter" so people get steamed up about it."

Pan is in a phase of individualism. He is just trying to be different, no matter what he really thinks.

It's a manner of puberty. So don't take Pan Mengti too serious.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Re: The Nets are going to be FUN to watch*



> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> You need rebounders to run and fastbreak.


I'm pretty sure that the Nets will manage to grab a few rebounds during their games, in which case they shall be sprinting up and down the floor.


----------



## Cockney

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> If that were the case, why would the Raptor management do the deal? They are doing what they determine is the best for the Raptor franchise.


Yeah like the Lakers, who traded away Shaq.


----------



## MiamiHeat03

wow RJ,Vince,and Kidd in the fast break!!


----------



## Damian Necronamous

> Originally posted by <b>ToddMacCulloch11</b>!
> I agree. It'll be fun to watch, and I think a change of scene/playing with Kidd will revitalize carter (how much, I don't know).
> 
> I don't know how successful the team will be, but they're working on some other deals to probably get a big man, so we'll see.


But who do they have to trade now? After getting Carter, they can't trade Kidd. The two Williams' and Mourning were basically their only trade assets.

I suppose they COULD possibly trade Planinic and either Mercer or Buford to the Nuggets for Nene, but I don't see that happening.

Please, no one say, "If they didn't trade Nene for Martin, they won't trade him for that." I already know this. Plus, that was before rumors circulated that Nene and Martin weren't getting along.


----------



## JNice

*Re: Re: Re: The Nets are going to be FUN to watch*



> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure that the Nets will manage to grab a few rebounds during their games, in which case they shall be sprinting up and down the floor.


I'm sure they will, but enough? They are going to get dominated down low most nights. Their frontcourt is just terrible. Not that it was great before, but they just traded two bigs and a SF who plays like a PF. And as far as I know, they don't have anything else to trade outside of Kidd, RJ, and Vince.


----------



## Pure Scorer

It would be really sweet if the nets could get stromile swift or chris wilcox... but they don't have much to trade, and i don't think stro can be traded this season anyhow.

with the way this team is set up its looking like a lot of their points are gonna come off the fast break.


----------



## TheRifleman

*Re: Re: Re: The Nets are going to be FUN to watch*



> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure that the Nets will manage to grab a few rebounds during their games, in which case they shall be sprinting up and down the floor.


I have seen all 3 of those players get MORE than their fair share of rebounds. I am looking forward to watching Carter get some easier alley-ooops passes=poetry in motion.


----------



## ToddMacCulloch11

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> 
> 
> But who do they have to trade now? After getting Carter, they can't trade Kidd. The two Williams' and Mourning were basically their only trade assets.
> 
> I suppose they COULD possibly trade Planinic and either Mercer or Buford to the Nuggets for Nene, but I don't see that happening.
> 
> Please, no one say, "If they didn't trade Nene for Martin, they won't trade him for that." I already know this. Plus, that was before rumors circulated that Nene and Martin weren't getting along.


They still have their picks, the clippers pick (from the kmart deal), and a second rounder from the clippers (the deal for Kittles).

I don't want to trade Zoran, but I have a feeling he might go, cause....well Buford, Vaughn, and Mercer aren't worth anything.


----------



## Real McCoy

*Re: Re: Re: Re: The Nets are going to be FUN to watch*



> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> I have seen all 3 of those players get MORE than their fair share of rebounds. I am looking forward to watching Carter get some easier alley-ooops passes=poetry in motion.


You've seen Nenad Kristic, Jason Collins and Brian Scalabrine do well on the backboards huh? Are you a computer who just toes the rosey picture on everything related to the NBA? You can't be for real. You just can't.


----------



## :TorontoRaptors:

> Originally posted by <b>schub</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, with all those picks, we had been thinking about a trade-up scenario. I'm not saying it's a bad deal for Toronto, I just don't see it as a bad one for the Nets.


That's the beauty of this trade.

It's win-win for both organizations.


----------



## JNice

This is a good move short term for NJ and is going to make them some money because of Vince's dunking popularity, but I fully expect this deal to blow up in their faces. They've got no frontcourt, no salary cap room, and not really any other good assets to trade. And Kidd and Vince aren't exactly beacons of health. 

Seriously, their frontcourt might be worse than Orlando's last season and that was one hell of a terrible frontcourt.


----------



## Pan Mengtu

They'll be the worst rebounding team in the league.


----------



## JNice

I think they still deal Kidd. Maybe for 2-3 other good players.


----------



## Real McCoy

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> I think they still deal Kidd. Maybe for 2-3 other good players.


Dallas? Memphis?


----------



## Charlie Brown

ESPN just announced that the trade is official.

There will now be Vinsanity in the swamp.


----------



## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>Real McCoy</b>!
> 
> 
> Dallas? Memphis?


Maybe Denver. Nene and Miller? I dunno, but they've got to get a good big guy.

I can't imagine them standing pat.


----------



## schub

Nets Announcement


----------



## Real McCoy

New Jersey trades: PG Jason Kidd (10.4 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 3.0 apg in 21.4 minutes)
New Jersey receives: C Lorenzen Wright	(7.9 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 1.3 apg in 26.4 minutes)
PG Jason Williams	(9.3 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 5.5 apg in 27.1 minutes)
SF Ryan Humphrey	(3.1 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.1 apg in 7.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +9.9 ppg, +5.4 rpg, and +3.9 apg.

Memphis trades: C Lorenzen Wright	(7.9 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 1.3 apg in 26.4 minutes)
PG Jason Williams	(9.3 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 5.5 apg in 27.1 minutes)
SF Ryan Humphrey	(3.1 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.1 apg in 7.6 minutes)
Memphis receives: PG Jason Kidd	(10.4 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 3.0 apg in 21.4 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -9.9 ppg, -5.4 rpg, and -3.9 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to New Jersey and Memphis being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. New Jersey and Memphis had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

PG - Jason Williams/Travis Best/Jacque Vaughn
SG - Vince Carter/Zoran Planninic/Rodney Buford
SF - Richard Jefferson/Ron Mercer
PF - Lorenzen Wright/Brian Scalabrine/Ryan Humphrey
C - Jason Collins/Nenad Kristic

I think a Jason Williams, Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson could be just as exciting in New Jersey.


----------



## Real McCoy

New Jersey trades: PG Jason Kidd (10.4 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 3.0 apg in 21.4 minutes)
New Jersey receives: PG Andre Miller	(14.0 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 5.4 apg in 35.6 minutes)
SG Voshon Lenard	(13.0 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.0 apg in 24.0 minutes)
PF Nikoloz Tskitishvili	(1.9 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.3 apg in 8.9 minutes)
Nene Hilario	(No games yet played in 2004/05)
Change in team outlook: +18.5 ppg, +2.5 rpg, and +3.7 apg.

Denver trades: PG Andre Miller	(14.0 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 5.4 apg in 35.6 minutes)
SG Voshon Lenard	(13.0 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.0 apg in 24.0 minutes)
PF Nikoloz Tskitishvili	(1.9 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.3 apg in 8.9 minutes)
Nene Hilario	(No games yet played in 2004/05)
Denver receives: PG Jason Kidd	(10.4 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 3.0 apg in 21.4 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -18.5 ppg, -2.5 rpg, and -3.7 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to New Jersey and Denver being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. New Jersey and Denver had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


This deal works, but is Kidd worth all that?


----------



## ToddMacCulloch11

Nets vs. Raptors in toronto on sunday...I don't know what Vince's deal is with his injury, but it'd be interesting to see what that would be like


----------



## Pure Scorer

> Originally posted by <b>Real McCoy</b>!
> New Jersey trades: PG Jason Kidd (10.4 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 3.0 apg in 21.4 minutes)
> New Jersey receives: C Lorenzen Wright	(7.9 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 1.3 apg in 26.4 minutes)
> PG Jason Williams	(9.3 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 5.5 apg in 27.1 minutes)
> SF Ryan Humphrey	(3.1 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.1 apg in 7.6 minutes)
> Change in team outlook: +9.9 ppg, +5.4 rpg, and +3.9 apg.
> 
> Memphis trades: C Lorenzen Wright	(7.9 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 1.3 apg in 26.4 minutes)
> PG Jason Williams	(9.3 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 5.5 apg in 27.1 minutes)
> SF Ryan Humphrey	(3.1 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.1 apg in 7.6 minutes)
> Memphis receives: PG Jason Kidd	(10.4 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 3.0 apg in 21.4 minutes)
> Change in team outlook: -9.9 ppg, -5.4 rpg, and -3.9 apg.
> 
> TRADE ACCEPTED
> 
> Due to New Jersey and Memphis being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. New Jersey and Memphis had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
> 
> PG - Jason Williams/Travis Best/Jacque Vaughn
> SG - Vince Carter/Zoran Planninic/Rodney Buford
> SF - Richard Jefferson/Ron Mercer
> PF - Lorenzen Wright/Brian Scalabrine/Ryan Humphrey
> C - Jason Collins/Nenad Kristic
> 
> I think a Jason Williams, Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson could be just as exciting in New Jersey.


That's a terrible trade for new jersey. jason kidd for jason williams + a backup + a scrub? ugh.


----------



## Pure Scorer

> Originally posted by <b>Real McCoy</b>!
> New Jersey trades: PG Jason Kidd (10.4 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 3.0 apg in 21.4 minutes)
> New Jersey receives: PG Andre Miller	(14.0 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 5.4 apg in 35.6 minutes)
> SG Voshon Lenard	(13.0 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.0 apg in 24.0 minutes)
> PF Nikoloz Tskitishvili	(1.9 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.3 apg in 8.9 minutes)
> Nene Hilario	(No games yet played in 2004/05)
> Change in team outlook: +18.5 ppg, +2.5 rpg, and +3.7 apg.
> 
> Denver trades: PG Andre Miller	(14.0 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 5.4 apg in 35.6 minutes)
> SG Voshon Lenard	(13.0 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.0 apg in 24.0 minutes)
> PF Nikoloz Tskitishvili	(1.9 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.3 apg in 8.9 minutes)
> Nene Hilario	(No games yet played in 2004/05)
> Denver receives: PG Jason Kidd	(10.4 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 3.0 apg in 21.4 minutes)
> Change in team outlook: -18.5 ppg, -2.5 rpg, and -3.7 apg.
> 
> TRADE ACCEPTED
> 
> Due to New Jersey and Denver being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. New Jersey and Denver had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
> 
> 
> This deal works, but is Kidd worth all that?


why would the nets want lenard? why would denver trade away their only sg if he's not integral to the deal? 

i still don't see why nj would trade kidd after acquiring carter. just doesn't make much sense to trade him away at this point. there are other ways to acquire some rebounding.


----------



## Real McCoy

I guess you didn't get the memo that Lenard is out for the season. He has a buyout for next year though, that makes him attractive. What do you anticipate someone getting for Kidd? Two star players? I mean he's 31, coming off a knee injury and 5 years/90 million left. What do you think they would get for him?


----------



## HB

I am officially a nets fan


----------



## schub

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> I am officially a nets fan


Welcome aboard! Should be a fun team to watch once Vince is healthy and Kidd is back up to regular playing time.


----------



## Tom

I think a lot of Vince's injuries will now disappear


----------



## ToddMacCulloch11

> Originally posted by <b>Tom</b>!
> I think a lot of Vince's injuries will now disappear


I'm hoping so. I'm thinking this one he has now is gonna heal pretty quickly.


----------



## LA68

I think anytime you can put two Top Guns together you do it. Imagine the Alley oops Kidd can throw now!!

Wouldn't it be funny if Carter and Kidd's knees suddenly got healthy??

I am happy to see it.


----------



## neBo503

yeah thats a sweet deal for the raps


----------



## Tom

I don't know about RJ and Vince though...I fear Vince will become a 3 point shooter rather than a slasher.


----------



## MJG

> Originally posted by <b>Tom</b>!
> I don't know about RJ and Vince though...I fear Vince will become a 3 point shooter rather than a slasher.


If by "become" you mean "became several years ago," then yes :grinning:


----------



## :TorontoRaptors:

> Originally posted by <b>Tom</b>!
> I don't know about RJ and Vince though...I fear Vince will become a 3 point shooter rather than a slasher.


Vince hasn't been a slasher for almost 3 or 4 years now.

He's a jumpshot guy, bad decision maker on the shot... will throw one up 2 or 3 times a game.

Slasher, no.


----------



## STINGCC

Nets are still at +700 odds to win the Atlantic Division, which is great if you bet sports since the Nets had a chance to win this division even without the trade. Just look at the other teams in the Atlantic. 

I think we had them listed at somewhere around +1200 just two weeks ago.


----------



## ToddMacCulloch11

incase anyone missed it on YES...

Vince did a call with some people there, said he sounded really excited about coming here. Also, that it is just sinking in that he gets to play with Jason Kidd, he thinks that he/kidd/RJ will be a very dangerous trio, and that he practiced lightly today.

The earliest he can come back is for tuesdays game..but I don't want to rush it. Rather have him healthy then coming back early and hurting himself more.


----------



## kisstherim

great,Vince's new life will begin,good luck,Vince


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt

> Originally posted by <b>Cockney</b>!
> Pan Mengtu is just an attention whore, who makes the most outrageous statements to create controversy in here. He's like:"I'ma say something like "Jason Hart is as good as Carter" so people get steamed up about it."
> 
> Pan is in a phase of individualism. He is just trying to be different, no matter what he really thinks.
> 
> It's a manner of puberty. So don't take Pan Mengti too serious.


Ouch! Mean, but true.


----------



## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>Pure Scorer</b>!
> 
> there are other ways to acquire some rebounding.


Like?


----------



## kisstherim

*Re: The Nets are going to be FUN to watch*



> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Furthermore, I think that a new scenery and playing with Kidd will rejuvenate Carter's career to putting him back to being the 20+ppg scorer that he once was.


:yes: :yes:.Finally Vince has another superstar(however,haters won't count Vince as a superstar or even used to be)in his team(if u don't count the young TMAC).He will revive.


----------



## c_dog

erm, why would they let kenyon martin go and then take on such a bad contract such as VC's? doesn't make any sense. so they're not willing to pay for a rising young PF but they're willing to pay for a former all-star who's way past his prime.

VC may end up averaging 20ppg but come on, reggie miller at age 40 can average 20ppg when the offense runs through him.


----------



## Excel

I'll take a wait & see attitude on this one.


----------



## Sánchez AF

> Originally posted by <b>kisstherim</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> great,Vince's new life will begin,good luck,Vince


:yes: :yes: :yes: :gopray:


----------



## tha supes

I really don't see it as good for Raptors, I'm shocked to say he least. They could have got a lot more for Carter. Again, I'm shocked. I thought there was a chance VC would be traded but not this soon. 

With Kidd back, RJ and VC, Nets don't look AS bad on paper anymore.


----------



## Slasher

As a Raptors fan I would love to say that this deal will help us somehow, but I just cannot believe that Rob Babcock couldn't have found a better deal.

The recent buzz in Portland was that the Blazers would be sending Abdur-Rahim and Derek Anderson and fillers to Toronto for Carter, Jalen Rose, and fillers. Sure the deal went south, but to think that the deal was being discussed tells me that the Raptors could have gotten something better.

I don't know, but it seems that this is just a short time solution to fill the Raptors roster with hard-working veterans.

Maybe I'll change my opinion if Mourning can actually do something, or if the Raptors can trade and acquire someone for Mourning, and lastly generate a good draft choice from the draft pick acquisitions.

Time will tell......


----------



## Sánchez AF

> Originally posted by <b>Hbwoy</b>!
> I am officially a nets fan


:yes: Me too


----------



## Sánchez AF

Anyone have Nets players reactions ???


----------



## ToddMacCulloch11

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> Anyone have Nets players reactions ???


I didn't watch the post game thing today...they might have said something.

All they talked about was Eric Williams. They said he was sad cause he was playing in New Jersey, which is where he is from, and now he is leaving, but that is the business. It was kind of sad, but its true...thats what happens.


----------



## HB

Does anyone know when the press conference will be


----------



## schub

> Originally posted by <b>ToddMacCulloch11</b>!
> 
> 
> I didn't watch the post game thing today...they might have said something.
> 
> All they talked about was Eric Williams. They said he was sad cause he was playing in New Jersey, which is where he is from, and now he is leaving, but that is the business. It was kind of sad, but its true...thats what happens.


Yeah, it was sad to see the Williams' interview, and to see him sitting behind the bench (I guess he stayed so he could just travel with the Nets to Toronto).

His son's mother was killed last year, so it was extra important to him to be in Jersey near his son. Shame he had to go. In just 21 games, he quickly became a favorite of mine.


----------



## ToddMacCulloch11

> Originally posted by <b>schub</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, it was sad to see the Williams' interview, and to see him sitting behind the bench (I guess he stayed so he could just travel with the Nets to Toronto).
> 
> His son's mother was killed last year, so it was extra important to him to be in Jersey near his son. Shame he had to go. In just 21 games, he quickly became a favorite of mine.


Yeah, it almost looked like he was crying a little (his eyes were all red). 

Its a shame...I always liked him and was very happy when the Nets signed him. He'd been playing great the past few games. I wish we could have sent buford and vaughn in place of him.


----------



## SoCalfan21

so with kidd getting help does he still wanna go elsewhere?


----------



## TRON

As a true Raptor fan, I can't believe how many Vince groupies we had on the Raptors boards

I think Vince will thrive playing along side Kidd, and I hope that he can revive his career in NJ if that's where he finally ends up.

he will never be the explosive player of past, but barring any injuries, he can be a 24/5/5 guy for NJ


----------



## Petey

> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> Very risky for NJ.
> 
> Capped out with just RJ, Kidd, VC, Mercer, Planicic, and Kristic under contract in 2005. Giving away their draft picks and nothing to trade for a big man.
> 
> I will give Ratner this, it will keep the fans entertained until the new stadium is built but this team is going to be nothing on the interior.


The Nets have 2 trade exceptions.

One for Kittles and one for Martin.

9 and 5 million.

-Petey


----------



## Petey

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Originally posted by <b>Pure Scorer</b>!
> 
> there are other ways to acquire some rebounding.
> 
> 
> 
> Like?
Click to expand...

9 Million dollar trade exception from the Clippers trade (Kittles)...

5 Million dollar trade exception from the Nuggets trade (KMart)...

-Petey


----------



## JNice

> Originally posted by <b>Petey</b>!
> 
> 9 Million dollar trade exception from the Clippers trade (Kittles)...
> 
> 5 Million dollar trade exception from the Nuggets trade (KMart)...
> 
> -Petey


Cool. Didn't know that. I stand corrected.


----------



## firstrounder

I'm a raps fan too.

I am very ticked right now.

Why havent we learned from Hakeem? Now we have Hakeem II

I have a bad feeling Alonzo is going to "retire" because of his injuries and we'll have to pay him for nothing, just like with Hakeem.

And BTW, the Portland deal was originally SAR, and NVE (both expiring contracts, would have freed up 25+ million this offseason) and a 1st for Rose and Carter, and supposedly Babcock backed out!

I am very disappointed. I always loved VC up until this year, when he demanded a trade and played like sh!t. But inside I always hoped he would return to his old form for us again and have nightly hilight reel dunks.

We didnt get fair value.

Here's hoping VC stays healthy for you and hopefully we see him on the hilights every night like the old days.

BTW, its going to be wierd to see him in your road jersey.

Best of luck!


BTW - I will be eagerly watching his 1st game in a NJ uniform - you can bet he will throw down a couple sick jams to get the crowd going.


----------



## schub

Thanks to Nuts4Nets on the nj.com board for using his stenography skills to capture most of Stefanski's interview on WFAN tonight:



> "Well you now I'm happy for ob the fran and bruce, the fans, fans went through a lot this summer, this moves shows he is willing to spend the money and wants to be competitive in the marketplace. I don't think [ratner] was being ill-advised with Kenyon. It was a tough decision and we're working our way on correcting that."
> 
> On Kidd staying: "It was definately one of the scenarios we talked about. Jason is very happy we made the move. In our situation, we traded 3 players who weren't in the mix for us. We gave up 2 of 3 draft picks, and we still have ours and the Clippers so we aren't mortgaging the future and we gave up what we had to do to get Carter."
> 
> Was Kidd consulted? "No, not at all. He wasn't aware until this afternoon when I called his agent. He was very happy once we told them. Everyone thinks we run things through him but we don't."
> 
> Carter's attitude: "Well, i don't see it as much a risk. Three draft picks coming in two years. Bruce made a decision money wise. Richard is friend of Carter. J Kidd can make Carter better. Carter is coming in wanting to impress jason. Having Kidd around will make everyone better. I've spoken to Carter, he is estatic to come here. We're going to have highlight films on our fast break again."
> 
> Backcourt: "We believe we've revived the team. I feel happy for Ratner because he stood up and put his money on the line. And our fans. Our fans suffered this summer. We're not done yet, we're still working on improving."
> 
> On Martin: "We loved Kenyon, we miss him and wish he was back, but that's in the past and we move forward here. From the pg and 2 g you can make the case that we're better than anyone in the NBA. The fans deserve this and they'll see the rewards here. We've dug ourselves a hole here and we have to climb out of it soon."
> 
> On Brooklyn: "Net fans are great, we have a hard-core fanbase, we've had a lot of issues in the past, and we've had some again, but I think the fans will appreciate what we've done."
> 
> On Mourning: "Well, the salary was tough, we had 2 years of salary. He made no question he didn't want to be here. We're happy to get out of that contract."
> 
> On Kidd's knee/attitude: "We played tonight, played very well and Jason looked his old self, we were really fast breaking and I imagine once we start putting Vince in there teams will have to really start getting back on defense."
> 
> On Vince's health: "We'll be doing an extensive checkup on him over the weekend."
> 
> "Its an exciting move for us and we're really happy to have him in here and give our fans something to cheer about."



I'll keep an eye on the WFAN site for the audio.


----------



## ToddMacCulloch11

I'm really hoping that injury was more of a "get me out of here injury", and they just put him on IR because they knew they were going to deal him in the next few days, so no reason to fill up a roster spot. I'm really interested to see what this new trio is like.


----------



## Midnight_Marauder

The Nets will be seen on sportscenter a lot more....but they wont be a better team because of this trade


----------



## Rockstone

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> Raptors get away with robbery on this one. two 1st round picks that are definitely going to be lottery picks?


One of the picks is Philly's 2005 first rounder which is protected 1 through 3. The other is Denver's 2006 first rounder which is protected 1 through 7. I could be a little off on these. Do you still think these are guaranteed lottery picks? 

I see the Raptors as the winners in this deal by a slight margin. New Jersey's frontcourt remains depleted, and they have three big money players already. 

The Raptors, however will get the help they need on the interior even if Alonzo doesn't stay (which I don't expect him to) from Aaron Williams. The Raptors need rebounding and interior defensive help.

None of the players that the Raptors recieved are nearly at the talent level of Vince Carter, but their attitudes and consistent effort night-in and night-out will do the Raptors well.

I'll admit, the thought of Jason Kidd, Richard Jefferson and Vince Carter together is a scary one though.


----------



## 1 Penny

If carter can regain his form Nets should be a very entertaining team to watch. Addition of front court players should be okay if they can sign some free agents.

Also, what if they aren't done trading. A big man can still be acquired via trade, but it would mean RJ or Kidd being dealt for a good big front court player.


Good deal for toronto also, since they get rid of a player who doesnt wanna be there, and they get first round picks.


...... the only really bad thing about this, is me re-starting my NBA Live, ESPN dynasty/franchise modes, to accomodate the trades..


----------



## schub

> Originally posted by <b>ToddMacCulloch11</b>!
> I'm really hoping that injury was more of a "get me out of here injury", and they just put him on IR because they knew they were going to deal him in the next few days, so no reason to fill up a roster spot. I'm really interested to see what this new trio is like.


I think he's really injured, because he talked about it after the trade, but he thinks he could be ready by Tuesday (@ CHA) or Wednesday (home vs. CLE). Also, I don't think the Nets and Raps even talked about this deal until Thursday.


----------



## ToddMacCulloch11

> Originally posted by <b>schub</b>!
> 
> 
> I think he's really injured, because he talked about it after the trade, but he thinks he could be ready by Tuesday (@ CHA) or Wednesday (home vs. CLE). Also, I don't think the Nets and Raps even talked about this deal until Thursday.


Well real injury or not, if he can come back *healthy* on Tuesday (which would be the earliest he could come off IR) or Wednesday, that'd be fine with me. I just want to make sure he is okay and not rushing back.


----------



## schub

Interesting:



> The Nets began speaking to Toronto about two weeks ago, and *it started off as Aaron Williams and Brian Scalabrine for Donyell Marshall*. It never materialized. But a few days ago the Nets asked what it would take to get Carter.


http://www.yesnetwork.com/nets/news.asp?news_id=766


----------



## KrispyKreme23

I know **** happens but it isn't right what the Nets did to Eric Williams. He loved it in New Jersey, his hometown. He could have easily gone to Miami or something to try and win a championship. Plus, he got to spend time with his son and now he has to move again. :no:


----------



## Petey

> Originally posted by <b>schub</b>!
> Interesting:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Nets began speaking to Toronto about two weeks ago, and *it started off as Aaron Williams and Brian Scalabrine for Donyell Marshall*. It never materialized. But a few days ago the Nets asked what it would take to get Carter.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.yesnetwork.com/nets/news.asp?news_id=766
Click to expand...

That trade actually would had really helped out too.

Too bad the salaries are NOWHERE near matching.

-Petey


----------



## Petey

> Originally posted by <b>KrispyKreme23</b>!
> I know **** happens but it isn't right what the Nets did to Eric Williams. He loved it in New Jersey, his hometown. He could have easily gone to Miami or something to try and win a championship. Plus, he got to spend time with his son and now he has to move again. :no:


I know, this is one of the bigger draw backs for me.

-Petey


----------



## ToddMacCulloch11

> Originally posted by <b>KrispyKreme23</b>!
> I know **** happens but it isn't right what the Nets did to Eric Williams. He loved it in New Jersey, his hometown. He could have easily gone to Miami or something to try and win a championship. Plus, he got to spend time with his son and now he has to move again. :no:


I agree...I've always liked him, and now that he was playing on the Nets, I liked him even more. I would have loved if we could have switched another player (pretty much anyone that isn't Kidd, RJ, Nenad, or Zoran) in place of him.


----------



## Ross885

Too bad VC won't be able to play against Toronto on Sunday. That would have made that game a lot more interesting. The Nets only had 8 guys available tonght, will they take Zoran off the IR? Is there anyone else stashed away who they can use as fillers until they sign some guys?


----------



## Turkish Delight

> Originally posted by <b>Schilly</b>!
> Not a Nets fan, but I think this is a terrible trade for the Nets, heres why....
> 
> 
> Jason Kidd 14.8mil (signed through 2009)
> VInce Carter 12.6mil (signed through 2008)
> Richard Jefferson (approximately 9 mill next year signed through 2011)
> 
> Estimated salary commited to those 3 players
> 
> 2005 36.7mil
> 2006 39.7mil
> 2007 43.2mil
> 2008 46.6mil
> 
> factor that with trading 2 first round picks, how do they build from here? they are essentially capped out with those 3 plus Jason Collins who just signed through 2009.
> 
> Wow!
> 
> ANd to top it off no front court to speak of. I think the nets just buriied themselves by relying on 2 guys that are risky in the realm of health, and have big fat cap buster contracts.


:yes: 

Exactly..
It's hard to believe but the Nets froncourt is weaker than Toronto's old one.


----------



## Priest

blah vince doesnt even want to dunk anymore


----------



## bballlife

Hopefully Vince can get it turned around and have a good season. I can see why both teams did this deal. I am curious to see what happens with Zo and the Raptors, and how much of a difference Vince makes on the Nets considering he and Jefferson are very similar players.


----------



## FrankTheTank

Jefferson, healthy Kidd, and healthy Carter could be brutal. Nets totally ripped off the Raptors. I think all the people at the raptors board are in denial though.


----------



## Real McCoy

> Originally posted by <b>FrankTheTank</b>!
> Jefferson, healthy Kidd, and healthy Carter could be brutal. Nets totally ripped off the Raptors. I think all the people at the raptors board are in denial though.


I don't know hopefully they can get something for those trade exceptions. However, you have to feel that the Nets are going to be locked into bad contracts for a while now. 

I mean Brian Scalabrine, Jabari Smith, Jason Collins and Nenad Kristic, is your frontcourt? Who's out there for the 5 and 9 million dollar trade exception, that would use it? Would Milwaukee trade Joe Smith? Maurice Taylor? Ugh... this frontcourt is beyond pathetic. Time to call up the NBDL.


----------



## Truth34

*I wouldn't be so sure*

Maybe the fans there genuinely wanted Vince gone. He was a major attitude problem, doesn't play great defense, and is a shadow of his former self.

If he's healthy, this is highway robbery. But if he's not....you just gave away a ton for a mediocre jump shooter. And what about your frontcourt? Are you going to beat Miami with Brian Scalabrine?

I'm curious...what the heck is this franchise doing? If they wanted to keep Jason Kidd, why not keep Kenyon Martin around for less than what they will pay this gimp. KMart was a warrior, a defender, a heart-and-soul type of player. VC is the exact opposite, and plays the same position as RJ. 

Yes, you might win the Atlantic, then exit the playoffs stage right with 3 max players. They were better off before the KMart trade. Once they dealt him and KKittles, they should have finished the rebuilding. This is a joke--unless VC returns to old form. Then he can build the Taj Majal in Brooklyn.


----------



## On Thre3

> Originally posted by <b>Cockney</b>!
> Pan Mengtu is just an attention whore, who makes the most outrageous statements to create controversy in here. He's like:"I'ma say something like "Jason Hart is as good as Carter" so people get steamed up about it."
> 
> Pan is in a phase of individualism. He is just trying to be different, no matter what he really thinks.
> 
> It's a manner of puberty. So don't take Pan Mengti too serious.


so true

owned


----------



## Turkish Delight

> Originally posted by <b>FrankTheTank</b>!
> Jefferson, healthy Kidd, and healthy Carter could be brutal. Nets totally ripped off the Raptors. I think all the people at the raptors board are in denial though.


In denial?
We let go of someone who didn't want to be here, and we got 2 first round picks, and at the same time we significantly improved our interior defense.


----------



## crimsonice

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> 
> 
> In denial?
> We let go of someone who didn't want to be here, and we got 2 first round picks, and at the same time we significantly improved our interior defense.


With no go-to player... I'd like to see how Toronto is going to score now when they need a bucket. Who's going to create and make the big shots there? I think this will place toronto as one of the top 5 worse teams in the league.


----------



## pinetar

*Re: I wouldn't be so sure*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> I'm curious...what the heck is this franchise doing? If they wanted to keep Jason Kidd, why not keep Kenyon Martin around for less than what they will pay this gimp. KMart was a warrior, a defender, a heart-and-soul type of player. VC is the exact opposite, and plays the same position as RJ.


You're right, letting Martin go was a huge mistake. The owner recently admitted that. Unfortunately it can't be undone. 

This trade makes me uneasy. Essentially the Nets gave up a lot to "upgrade" from Eric Williams to Vince Carter. After a slow start, Williams was really fitting in and became a reliable second scorer after Jefferson. He plays defense and makes a reasonable salary. At Carter's salary, he needs to play at a very high level to earn his keep. 

Mourning had some brilliant moments for the Nets, but he was mistake prone too. Overall he did not give the team an advantage on the court. Given his constant whining to the media, I'm glad to see him gone. 

Aaron Williams was worth his $3.5 million salary and did a great job for the Nets, especially the last three seasons. For some reason the Nets gave up on him. However, in the offseason, at least, signing a free agent of his caliber should not be too difficult. 

The Denver pick will probably be well out of the lottery, but the Philadelphia pick could be very valuable. 

So the only pieces I'm really sad to see go are Eric Williams and the Philadelphia pick. 

Carter's arrival should generate ticket sales. If Carter performs like a superstar, obviously this will be a great deal for the Nets. If not, it's at best a wash. They had a solid 3 with a reasonable salary, but now their cap maneuverability is greatly reduced, and they have fewer assets to further improve the team.


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> :yes: Me too


Does that mean you won't be on the Raps board anymore?

:yes:


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>crimsonice</b>!
> 
> 
> With no go-to player... I'd like to see how Toronto is going to score now when they need a bucket. Who's going to create and make the big shots there? I think this will place toronto as one of the top 5 worse teams in the league.


Well Vince has not been much of a "go-to" guy for 3 years. And I'm already hoping we implode. Lotterybound baby!


----------



## Turkish Delight

> Originally posted by <b>blowuptheraptors</b>!
> 
> 
> Does that mean you won't be on the Raps board anymore?
> 
> :yes:


I'll be crossing my fingers on that one.


----------



## Sánchez AF

So what picks the Nets have ???..

Nets and ???


----------



## schub

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> So what picks the Nets have ???..
> 
> Nets and ???



http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?postid=1737358#post1737358


----------



## Sánchez AF

> Originally posted by <b>Turkish Delight</b>!
> 
> 
> I'll be crossing my fingers on that one.


Dont worry when i need a good laugh :laugh: i will check your and blowuptheraptors posts :yes: :yes: :yes:


----------



## Turkish Delight

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> Dont worry when i need a good laugh :laugh: i will check your and blowuptheraptors posts :yes: :yes: :yes:


Why? Because he's actually watched a Raptors game this season?


----------



## jmk

They're showing a little special on Eric Williams returning to his high school right now. It's really sad we shipped him off away from home, even though it's business. I wish the best to Eric. He really seems like a great guy.


----------



## BizzyRipsta

offtopic, but jmk, i love your avatar!!!


----------



## jmk

> Originally posted by <b>BizzyRipsta</b>!
> offtopic, but jmk, i love your avatar!!!


Obviously inspired by yours. I just looked at yours and said to myself, "Well, they look pretty serious. Why don't I spice up this dish with some Veal." And so I did.


----------



## Johnjo

With the speed and spontanaity of this team, he better not. With VC, he Nets now have a chance to be very dangerous.


----------



## butr

> Originally posted by <b>tha supes</b>!
> I really don't see it as good for Raptors, I'm shocked to say he least. They could have got a lot more for Carter. Again, I'm shocked. I thought there was a chance VC would be traded but not this soon.


Define a lot more. Tim Thomas and Penny?


----------



## schub




----------



## 7M3

Cool.


----------



## Sánchez AF

> Originally posted by <b>schub</b>!


He looks *happy* or what ? :yes:


----------



## Petey

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> He looks *happy* or what ? :yes:


Haha, so does Ratner, he hears the people running up to buy tickets.

-Petey


----------



## ToddMacCulloch11

> Originally posted by <b>SpeakerBoxxX</b>!
> 
> 
> He looks *happy* or what ? :yes:


There is an article on ESPN about it (edit, here is the link: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1952075)

He promised that he won't let Ratner and Thorn down, that he was very happy to be here, and that he felt like it was a new beginning and it was his rookie year again.


----------



## HB

That my friends is a wrap, start popping the champaigne


----------



## truth

Give Ratner credit..he learned quickly that buying a sports franchise is not soley about the bottom line......


----------



## schub

Vince in a Nets uniform:
http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=51891051&cdi=0
http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=51891058&cdi=0
http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=51891068&cdi=0
http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=51891073&cdi=0


----------



## Charlie Brown

> Originally posted by <b>schub</b>!
> Vince in a Nets uniform:
> http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=51891051&cdi=0
> http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=51891058&cdi=0
> http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=51891068&cdi=0
> http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=51891073&cdi=0


That just looks...right. Like it was meant to be. :grinning:


----------



## mr hoopster

Its ok for the Raptors, but we will see, i will not judge Babcock just yet. I think he has another deal or two in the works.


----------



## BizzyRipsta

vince looks good in a nets uniform.


----------



## madskillz1_99

*The VC Trade*

When do you think people will start to realize just how lopsided the Vince Carter trade was? It boils down to.

Vince Carter 

for 

Eric Williams (averaging about 7ppg on 35% shooting since coming over)
Aaron Williams (DNP - coach's decision tonight)

This trade was a superstar for two scrubs, that is unreal. If they wanted to give Vince away that easily I'd have taken him in L.A. for Walton and Tierre Brown!

I think in retrospect this deal could go down as one of the worst in NBA history.


----------



## Pinball

*Re: The VC Trade*



madskillz1_99 said:


> When do you think people will start to realize just how lopsided the Vince Carter trade was? It boils down to.
> 
> Vince Carter
> 
> for
> 
> Eric Williams (averaging about 7ppg on 35% shooting since coming over)
> Aaron Williams (DNP - coach's decision tonight)
> 
> This trade was a superstar for two scrubs, that is unreal. If they wanted to give Vince away that easily I'd have taken him in L.A. for Walton and Tierre Brown!
> 
> I think in retrospect this deal could go down as one of the worst in NBA history.


As poorly as Carter was playing, I'm surprised the Raptors couldn't get more for him than what NJ was offering. Injuries and all the BS aside, this is an All Star player we are talking about here. At least get some quality draft picks along with the salaries to make it work. I know Portland supposedly had an interest in him not too long ago. I can't imagine them giving Toronto less than NJ gave.


----------



## MangoMangoMango

*Re: The VC Trade*



madskillz1_99 said:


> When do you think people will start to realize just how lopsided the Vince Carter trade was? It boils down to.
> 
> Vince Carter
> 
> for
> 
> Eric Williams (averaging about 7ppg on 35% shooting since coming over)
> Aaron Williams (DNP - coach's decision tonight)
> 
> This trade was a superstar for two scrubs, that is unreal. If they wanted to give Vince away that easily I'd have taken him in L.A. for Walton and Tierre Brown!
> 
> I think in retrospect this deal could go down as one of the worst in NBA history.


I kinda disagree with that.....true, we got scrubs for trading VC
but trading VC has made the other starters of the raptors better

Bosh, Mo pete, and jalen Rose has obviously improved a lot since vince left....so even tho VC was traded for scrubs, it actually improved the team...


----------



## MangoMangoMango

*Re: The VC Trade*



Pinball said:


> As poorly as Carter was playing, I'm surprised the Raptors couldn't get more for him than what NJ was offering. Injuries and all the BS aside, this is an All Star player we are talking about here. At least get some quality draft picks along with the salaries to make it work. I know Portland supposedly had an interest in him not too long ago. I can't imagine them giving Toronto less than NJ gave.


vince was putting up crap numbers, and was injury prone........it was a gamble to trade for vince....

and the raptors got 2 first round picks for VC...
one is phillys and one is Denvers.....I think...


----------



## ATLien

*Re: The VC Trade*

We can't judge the deal until we see who Toronto drafts with the two first rounders they got in the trade.


----------



## madskillz1_99

*Re: The VC Trade*



MangoMangoMango said:


> I kinda disagree with that.....true, we got scrubs for trading VC
> but trading VC has made the other starters of the raptors better
> 
> Bosh, Mo pete, and jalen Rose has obviously improved a lot since vince left....so even tho VC was traded for scrubs, it actually improved the team...


This is the delusional attitude that most Raptors' fans have adopted to attempt to cope with this trade. 

No matter how you want to slice it, trading a superstar for two scrubs is bad. The Raptors should have tried to accomodate to Vince more. Maybe some of the other starters are putting up better numbers now, but the team is not better, and they have zero chance of winning in the playoffs. You need a stud.


----------



## tempe85

*Re: The VC Trade*

Who cares? All Jersey got was the right to be bounced out in round one. Kidd isn't getting any younger and Carter isn't jumping any higher. They have 36 Million tied up until 2007/08 for a 34 year old Kidd and 31 year old Carter. Jefferson is probably going to demmand a MAX contract next season so unless they want about 55 Million tied up into just 3 players for the next 3 years they'll have to let him go, which if they do you can say bye-bye to Jersey's chances. Face it this teams best chance was those two years they got their butts swept in the finals. After things start to go south in a year or two Kidd will be gone and all they'll have left will be Carter who will start pouting again because he's on a bad team.


----------



## Dre

*Re: The VC Trade*



TheATLien said:


> We can't judge the deal until we see who Toronto drafts with the two first rounders they got in the trade.


That's a good point.

I thought then, and I still do now that though his trade value was as low as ever probably, I think the Raptors could've gotten a bit more for him than what they did. In retrospect, it looks like a joke, but at the time, it was something the Raptors I think had to do ASAP, and apparently, that was the best they could do. The Raptors pretty much did what they had to do trading Vince, they probably could've gotten more, but that's really easy to say in retrospect.


----------



## madskillz1_99

*Re: The VC Trade*



_Dre_ said:


> That's a good point.
> 
> The Raptors pretty much did what they had to do trading Vince, they probably could've gotten more, but that's really easy to say in retrospect.


It was also really easy to say at the time.


----------



## yucatan

*Re: The VC Trade*

Who cares what Vince is doing in Jersey? It doesn't matter if Vince averages a triple double for the rest of his career, the fact of the matter is that he was never going to do anything close to that in Toronto. When it boils down to it, the Raptors were trading a 15 PPG, 3 RPG servicable starter, not the 30 PPG all-star you see today, for 2 role players and 2 first rounders. How does it help to build around a disgruntled player? Would you rather be average today and average tomorrow with Carter or below average today and good tomorrow with Bosh.


----------



## madskillz1_99

*Re: The VC Trade*



yucatan said:


> Who cares what Vince is doing in Jersey? It doesn't matter if Vince averages a triple double for the rest of his career, the fact of the matter is that he was never going to do anything close to that in Toronto. When it boils down to it, the Raptors were trading a 15 PPG, 3 RPG servicable starter, not the 30 PPG all-star you see today, for 2 role players and 2 first rounders. How does it help to build around a disgruntled player? Would you rather be average today and average tomorrow with Carter or below average today and good tomorrow with Bosh.


Uhh...no. It DOES matter what Vince is doing in Jersey, because that's where he was traded. It doesn't really matter what he was doing in T.O. because everyone knew that wasn't the real Vince. I don't think any other teams saw him as a 15ppg, 3rpg "serviceable starter".


----------



## tempe85

*Re: The VC Trade*

When the Suns traded Marbury for essentially picks, Lampe, McDyess, Vujacic, and Eisley people thought they were nuts. Heck today the Suns don't even have Lampe, Vujacic, Eisley, McDyess and they traded the picks to get rid of Gugliatta. However they did give themselves tons of breathing room partly by getting rid of Marbury and also by getting rid of Hardway. Today people don't say the Suns are nuts, they say they're geniouses. Instead of Marbury and Hardaway they have Nash and Richardson at quite a bit less cost. Meanwhile the Knicks are a complete joke. 

Let's just wait a couple years to see how this thing pans out before everyone jumps the gun like they did in the Marbury trade (remember how people then were going nuts after Marbury turned the Knicks around and brought them to the playoffs??). I honestly think the Raptors are better off. I mean they weren't going anywhere with Carter.. now with picks and cap space.. they're in good shape.


----------



## Dre

*Re: The VC Trade*



madskillz1_99 said:


> It was also really easy to say at the time.


True, but it didn't look as lopsided then as it does now. 

The reasoning of the people who supported the trade for Toronto was that Carter had pretty much overstayed his welcome, he was a malcontent, and they should start to look forward (and build around Bosh). 

Again, they could've gotten more for him, but at the time, I reiterate, Carter was at his lowest point as an NBA player. Babcock probably jumped the gun a bit, but my feeling about it is that at the time, the Raptors knew it was going to end up lopsided in the long run, but they felt strongly that they needed to get rid of Carter, and get *something* back. They have two picks and Eric Williams, and no, it isn't Baron Davis, but realistically, that was one of the only deals on the market for him. They realized Carter was going to probably flourish elsewhere, but they bit the bullet and figured the two Williams', Mourning, and the picks were of more benefit to the team than a sulking, half playing Carter.


----------



## speedythief

*Re: The VC Trade*

Easy to consider it a bad trade if you want to disregard the picks, but that doesn't make much sense.


Think of it like this and it's not a bad trade at all:

- New Jersey gets Vince.
- Toronto gets E-Will, A-Train, Charlie Villanueva (nbadraft.net's 15th pick*, 2005) and Jarrett Jack (nbadraft.net's 21st pick*, 2006). 


*based on Philadelphia finishing with the worst record for a playoff team (getting the 15th pick) and Denver finishing with the 9th best record next season.


----------



## madskillz1_99

*Re: The VC Trade*



speedythief said:


> Easy to consider it a bad trade if you want to disregard the picks, but that doesn't make much sense.
> 
> 
> Think of it like this and it's not a bad trade at all:
> 
> - New Jersey gets Vince.
> - Toronto gets E-Will, A-Train, Charlie Villanueva (nbadraft.net's 15th pick*, 2005) and Jarrett Jack (nbadraft.net's 21st pick*, 2006).
> 
> 
> *based on Philadelphia finishing with the worst record for a playoff team (getting the 15th pick) and Denver finishing with the 9th best record next season.


Good point, to consider.........


----------



## yucatan

*Re: The VC Trade*



madskillz1_99 said:


> Uhh...no. It DOES matter what Vince is doing in Jersey, because that's where he was traded. It doesn't really matter what he was doing in T.O. because everyone knew that wasn't the real Vince. I don't think any other teams saw him as a 15ppg, 3rpg "serviceable starter".


If everyone knew that wasn't the real Vince, why weren't all the GMs in the league lining up with better offers? Hindsight is 20/20. bud. Yeah, my bad, I guess it does matter what Vince is doing in Jersey. I guess Babcock should have taken all the other GMs into his time machine and shown him what Vince would've done after he left Toronto.


----------



## SW20 MR2

*Re: The VC Trade*

Don't blame Babcock for getting jacked. Blame VC. He sabatoged the whole deal when he went public. If you were a rival GM and knew 100% that the player wanted out, would you offer much? Ofcourse not. You're going to lowball the guy and hope he accepts. 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Make the best of what you have and move on. I'm happy with the VC trade. Also, I *highly* doubt that Babs will use all of the picks. If he doesn't package them off, I wouldn't be surprised if he packaged the Philly or Denver picks along with their own picks to move up.


----------



## Crossword

*Re: The VC Trade*

Toronto 100
New Jersey 82

Nuff said... 

We'll see you April 15th, Vince, and we will break your legs.


----------



## Foulzilla

*Re: The VC Trade*



yucatan said:


> If everyone knew that wasn't the real Vince, why weren't all the GMs in the league lining up with better offers? Hindsight is 20/20. bud. Yeah, my bad, I guess it does matter what Vince is doing in Jersey. I guess Babcock should have taken all the other GMs into his time machine and shown him what Vince would've done after he left Toronto.


Actually other GMs were involved. At the very least I know Portland was trying to get him. I won't try and guess what was actually offered (I heard plenty of rumors), but I can't imagine it was worse then the NJ trade.


----------



## SkywalkerAC

*Re: The VC Trade*



Foulzilla said:


> Actually other GMs were involved. At the very least I know Portland was trying to get him. I won't try and guess what was actually offered (I heard plenty of rumors), but I can't imagine it was worse then the NJ trade.


I'd imagine they weren't offering to give up two draft picks (or prospects like Outlaw or Monya).


----------



## Sánchez AF

*Re: The VC Trade*



tempe85 said:


> When the Suns traded Marbury for essentially picks, Lampe, McDyess, Vujacic, and Eisley people thought they were nuts. Heck today the Suns don't even have Lampe, Vujacic, Eisley, McDyess and they traded the picks to get rid of Gugliatta


And Cap space and that cap help to land Nash and Q


----------



## jmk

*Re: The VC Trade*



tempe85 said:


> Who cares? All Jersey got was the right to be bounced out in round one. Kidd isn't getting any younger and Carter isn't jumping any higher. They have 36 Million tied up until 2007/08 for a 34 year old Kidd and 31 year old Carter. Jefferson is probably going to demmand a MAX contract next season so unless they want about 55 Million tied up into just 3 players for the next 3 years they'll have to let him go, which if they do you can say bye-bye to Jersey's chances. Face it this teams best chance was those two years they got their butts swept in the finals. After things start to go south in a year or two Kidd will be gone and all they'll have left will be Carter who will start pouting again because he's on a bad team.


Welcome to last summer. We are the home of where RJ was signed to an extension.


----------



## CrookedJ

*Re: The VC Trade*



Foulzilla said:


> Actually other GMs were involved. At the very least I know Portland was trying to get him. I won't try and guess what was actually offered (I heard plenty of rumors), but I can't imagine it was worse then the NJ trade.


A lot of people have said that, but don't you think he would have taken the best offer out there? Its unlikely that he went, I'm a rookie GM and my job isn't important to me so I'll screw over my team by not getting the best deal AND make my job to build a winner that much more difficult.

It was the best offer. Portland, apparently, would not provide Medical info on Derek Anderson.

It wasn't a great deal, but it was OK - 2 first rounders, a decent player and big contract to buy out and least save the team some money if no cap sizable cap space was created. VC was garbage here this year, he was being benched in the 4th Q he was playing so poorly, just chucking up contested jumpers left and right and playing no defense.


----------



## Petey

*Re: The VC Trade*



CrookedJ said:


> A lot of people have said that, but don't you think he would have taken the best offer out there? Its unlikely that he went, I'm a rookie GM and my job isn't important to me so I'll screw over my team by not getting the best deal AND make my job to build a winner that much more difficult.
> 
> *It was the best offer. Portland, apparently, would not provide Medical info on Derek Anderson.*
> 
> It wasn't a great deal, but it was OK - 2 first rounders, a decent player and big contract to buy out and least save the team some money if no cap sizable cap space was created. VC was garbage here this year, he was being benched in the 4th Q he was playing so poorly, just chucking up contested jumpers left and right and playing no defense.



What else had they offered? Even if Anderson never played again, would that make him any different than Zo?

-Petey


----------



## SeaNet

*Re: The VC Trade*



tempe85 said:


> Who cares? All Jersey got was the right to be bounced out in round one. Kidd isn't getting any younger and Carter isn't jumping any higher. They have 36 Million tied up until 2007/08 for a 34 year old Kidd and 31 year old Carter. Jefferson is probably going to demmand a MAX contract next season so unless they want about 55 Million tied up into just 3 players for the next 3 years they'll have to let him go, which if they do you can say bye-bye to Jersey's chances. Face it this teams best chance was those two years they got their butts swept in the finals. After things start to go south in a year or two Kidd will be gone and all they'll have left will be Carter who will start pouting again because he's on a bad team.


There are too many inaccuracies in this post to enumerate them all.


----------



## TRON

*Re: The VC Trade*

To all Toronto fans, we did get jacked on that trade, but....that's what everyone said about Phoenix last year when they traded Marbury for like nothing but capspace, and we all know how Phoenix is doing now, as well as how NY is doing now. So who really who that trade?

This trade was for the future rather than the present, and while NJ has benefitted immediately, the benefits of that trade for Toronto will only materialize in 2-3 years, if at all.


----------



## X-JAY

*Re: The VC Trade*



madskillz1_99 said:


> When do you think people will start to realize just how lopsided the Vince Carter trade was? It boils down to.
> 
> Vince Carter
> 
> for
> 
> Eric Williams (averaging about 7ppg on 35% shooting since coming over)
> Aaron Williams (DNP - coach's decision tonight)
> 
> This trade was a superstar for two scrubs, that is unreal. If they wanted to give Vince away that easily I'd have taken him in L.A. for Walton and Tierre Brown!
> 
> I think in retrospect this deal could go down as one of the worst in NBA history.


If you knew a little more about this trade and Toronto's situation you wouldn't be as foolish as you are right now. The Raps didn't wanted to keep Vince in a bad mood and they had a good core to build on (it's sad that Rose take so much of their payroll) with a future star (Bosh), a very talented center (Araujo) and a lot of picks. If they can get Baron Davis without giving up any of their main players and drop the bad contracts (led by Jalen), they can sign a big-time player this summer and be a pretty good playoff team next year.


----------



## schub

*Re: The VC Trade*

No one has mentioned Mourning in this thread yet. He was a huge burden, and somehow Thorn managed to unload him on Toronto, who is now paying him $11 million to work on his tan. I had thought for sure that Mourning was completely untradeable with his illness, his contract, his ****ty attitude and his buyout demands, but somehow Toronto was OK with taking that on.

To me, the trade was Eric Williams and the two picks for Vince Carter and the freedom from Mourning.


----------



## X-JAY

*Re: The VC Trade*

Very good point. I agree with u on the meaning of the trade.


----------



## Petey

*Re: The VC Trade*



schub said:


> No one has mentioned Mourning in this thread yet. He was a huge burden, and somehow Thorn managed to unload him on Toronto, who is now paying him $11 million to work on his tan. I had thought for sure that Mourning was completely untradeable with his illness, his contract, his ****ty attitude and his buyout demands, but somehow Toronto was OK with taking that on.
> 
> To me, the trade was Eric Williams and the two picks for Vince Carter and the freedom from Mourning.


With Carter, the Nets also became a draw, they have more money to invest in their team without taking money out of the pockets of their cheap owner Ratner.

-Petey


----------



## 7M3

7M3 said:


> Cool.


Bumped in response to Vinsane's thread.

Threads like these remind me how ****ing stupid Pan Mengtu is. Lots of people eating crow in this thread, in fact.


----------



## Noodfan

7M3 said:


> Bumped in response to Vinsane's thread.
> 
> Threads like these remind me how ****ing stupid Pan Mengtu is. Lots of people eating crow in this thread, in fact.


Man how did you bring this topic to life back? Did you try hard to find this topic? :banana:


----------



## Petey

Noodfan said:


> Man how did you bring this topic to life back? Did you try hard to find this topic? :banana:


Go to usercp and display threads from the "Beginning" so you can find all the threads that were ever posted in each forum.

Or you could use the search feature at the top of the board in the menu.

-Petey


----------



## Noodfan

That was not my point. But still thanks petey.


----------



## TheGrowth

Man there are a ton of quoutes I could use from this thread....


----------



## ToddMacCulloch11

Pan Mengtu said:


> Raptors get away with robbery on this one. two 1st round picks that are definitely going to be lottery picks? Sounds about right. Zo ain't bad either.





Pan Mengtu said:


> Raptors with another steal. They get the superior player, 2 decent roleplayers and 2 first rounders (which will be lottery). Man, they really cleaned up on this one.





Pan Mengtu said:


> Mourning is better than Carter. The Williams and 1st round picks were just give aways.





Pan Mengtu said:


> :laugh: On any other team in the NBA Carter would be fighting for a starting job.





Pan Mengtu said:


> Nope, I used the word fighting for a reason. Bogans or Hart both have a shot at him. So does Damon Jones. Maggette, Simmons, and Butler are both better than him, for sure.


wow.


----------



## JCB

ToddMacCulloch11 said:


> wow.


 wow is right


----------



## Noodfan

ToddMacCulloch11 said:


> wow.


Yeah I wish we have a clinic on BBB


----------



## 7M3

Noodfan said:


> Man how did you bring this topic to life back? Did you try hard to find this topic? :banana:


I try hard at everything I do.

But all it took on this one was typing "Vince Carter" into the search engine, and going all the way back.


----------



## Stefan Nellemoes

Priceless.. I almost choked in my chicken while reading this :eek8: ...


----------



## ghoti

Stefan Nellemoes said:


> Priceless.. I almost choked in my chicken while reading this :eek8: ...


I really, really hope you were actually eating chicken when you read this post.


----------



## ToddMacCulloch11

ghoti said:


> I really, really hope you were actually eating chicken when you read this post.


 Yeah, I'm hoping that "in" was supposed to be an "on"


----------



## ghoti

ToddMacCulloch11 said:


> Yeah, I'm hoping that "in" was supposed to be an "on"


Uh. Yeah.

I hope that too.


----------



## Stefan Nellemoes

You guuuuuyyyyys :brokenhea


----------



## MJG

How about me, being the one to break the news to you guys?


----------



## Infinet

I love reading the idiots posting about how Toronto made out in this deal and VC is worthless. Funny stuff.


----------



## Lord-SMX

schub said:


> Nets would lose 3 roster spots, so they'd need to start digging for big men in the CBA and NBDL.
> 
> Rotation looks like this at this point:
> 
> 1. Kidd/Best/Vaughn
> 2. Jefferson/Mercer*/Planinic*
> 3. Carter/Dickens
> 4. Scalabrine/Smith
> 5. Collins/Krstic
> 
> 
> 1/2 becomes heavier, and the 4/5 becomes lighter.
> 
> Makes me wonder if there's not a Carter for Rahim trade following this one. Would allow Portland to get Carter without Rose.


 what i feared all along.... collins starting!


----------



## Petey

MJG said:


> How about me, being the one to break the news to you guys?


Yes good job on the trade MJG! 

-Petey


----------



## XRay34

man i remember this like yesterday
just got a big gulp at 7-11, go into car, put on 1050 espn
doing newsflash vinsanity headed to the swaaaamp im like F! we traded kidd! then they tell the deal and almost spit my big gulp soda out of my mouth.


----------



## AJC NYC

some people said that they got a steal in the deal for toronto that is


----------



## jmk

Richard Jefferson is not good at basketball.


----------



## Air Fly

Where are all those funny/bitter posters now? LOL.


----------



## TheGrowth

Air Fly said:


> Where are all those funny/bitter posters now? LOL.


Welp...eating their words of course...the eating crow thread should be getting some new posts soon...


----------



## NetIncome

jmk said:


> Richard Jefferson is not good at basketball.


You got it right. Kudoes. Pan Mengtu...is he still permitted to discuss basketball? 

it was the same way when Thorn traded Marbury for Kidd.

In Rod we trust, since in his career:

1] he made the smartest draft pick in NBA history...Jordan at No. 3

2] his Kidd and Carter trades have to rank in the top 10 of the most lopsided trades in NBA history.


----------



## Petey

NetIncome said:


> You got it right. Kudoes. *Pan Mengtu...is he still permitted to discuss basketball?*
> 
> it was the same way when Thorn traded Marbury for Kidd.
> 
> In Rod we trust, since in his career:
> 
> 1] he made the smartest draft pick in NBA history...Jordan at No. 3
> 
> 2] his Kidd and Carter trades have to rank in the top 10 of the most lopsided trades in NBA history.


No longer allowed to post on BBB.net; was baiting in a tread about the Pope, and then wished death upon him. Was suspended for 3 days where he then requested to be banned.

Weird, werid guy.

-Petey


----------



## Air Fly

Petey said:


> No longer allowed to post on BBB.net; was baiting in a tread about the Pope, and then wished death upon him. *Was suspended for 3 days where he then requested to be banned.
> 
> Weird, werid guy.
> *
> -Petey


LOL.......thats really really weird.


----------



## XRay34

Amareca said:


> Why ? Because you just got another huge contract on your books and one of the most injury prone players.
> 
> Your team will go nowhere with that roster.
> 
> Kidd , Carter and Jefferson is a worse and more injury prone version of Kidd, Penny and Marion back then.
> 
> With less frontcourt support. Basically none.
> 
> And for a higher cost.



lol at this guy, and go figure he has amare stoudemire avator and screen name. whos now injury prone at a young age, knee surgery at that age not good. way to jinx it.


----------



## NetsanityJoe

lol @ these people.


----------



## NetIncome

What is completely shocking is that there are no "WOW"s, no excitement. I was posting on the other board at the time and while there was also some disagreement about the trade, some people got it instantly, that it was a franchise changer. Hell, I was almost in tears! Thorn had done it again.
[In retrospect, it has only gotten better. My God, look at the first draft guy Babcock chose with those picks: Joey Graham!]


----------



## Aurelino

:TorontoRaptors: said:


> Vince hasn't been a slasher for almost 3 or 4 years now.
> 
> He's a jumpshot guy, bad decision maker on the shot... will throw one up 2 or 3 times a game.
> 
> Slasher, no.


Funny how with each passing week, VC is proving his detractors wrong.


----------



## AJC NYC

this was funny


----------



## f22egl

So far the Nets have made the playoffs three straight years with two appearances to the 2nd round. But they have not been title contenders as many predicted in the beginning of the thread.


----------



## MaxaMillion711

I think if healthy, and if vince gets the right mindset, we can be title contenders. we sucked in the playoffs last year and cleveland BARELY won. so imagine if Vince DOESNT suck vs Cavs and now we have big men.

I know its tough but try to be optimistic. lets all ban together and root for the team rather than just rag on vince all the time


----------



## HB

Wow 80% of the people who posted in this thread have gone incognito


----------



## GMJigga

AJC NYC said:


> this was funny


Aaaand its official


----------

