# Christmas Comes Early: Bulls Fire Skiles.



## Jim Ian (Aug 6, 2002)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3167808


> Bulls fire coach Skiles; no replacement named yet
> 
> Bulls coach Scott Skiles has lost his job as a result of his team's slow start.
> 
> ...



It's about time...


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## thaKEAF (Mar 8, 2004)

Damn didn't think it'd be this early but I called it yesterday.

http://www.basketballforum.com/5172578-post2.html


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

I dont care how bad the bulls have done, why fire him on christmas eve.. tasteless.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Same day Floyd got the axe.

Typical Bulls. Shielding moves they would rather not talk about using big events (Christmas, Wallace signing (chandler)) and the like.

Skiles was an A to B guy. Problem is, the B we're at kind of sucks.

Too bad they didn't do this a couple of years ago and we would still have Tyson Chandler.

Paxson. Always reactionary, never visionary.

Easiest guy to fire. We need a guy to develop TT and Noah for a "win later" approach. This current roster is flawed.


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## YearofDaBulls (Oct 20, 2004)

Wow, I didn't see this coming, not now at least.


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## harley (May 24, 2006)

To bad Paxson didnt fire himself. He cant blame Skiles for this mess.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

kukoc4ever said:


> Same day Floyd got the axe.
> 
> Typical Bulls. Shielding moves they would rather not talk about using big events (Christmas, Wallace signing (chandler)) and the like.
> 
> ...


Glad to see you back, k4e.

Who do you think we should target as our next coach?


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## charlietyra (Dec 1, 2002)

Jim Ian said:


> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3167808
> 
> 
> 
> It's about time...


I think Skiles must share some of the blame. I think his biggest fault was not getting the team ready for opening night. It seems they were very lackadaisacal during pre-season. They just were not ready to play.

However, I think that Skiles is the fall-guy here. This is Paxson's team. He has made so many blunders in personnel matters that it is a crime that he gets such a pass on this board. Aside from the Curry fiasco, I think the defining moment of Paxson's tenure was last year's draft. He essentially drafted two "pigs in a poke" with Tyrus and Sefaloser. I don't intend to go over yet again the problems with that particular draft with this post, but the inability to get two players who could really help this team when he had the opportunity is a big reason for this team going backwards.


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

King Joseus said:


> Glad to see you back, k4e.
> 
> Who do you think we should target as our next coach?


Placed a call to my buddy Dornado and he is calling for Rick Carlisle, after floyd,cartwright, and skiles I personally think the Bulls are gonna go big and try and get Larry Brown


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## K-Dub (Jun 26, 2005)

harley said:


> To bad Paxson didnt fire himself. He cant blame Skiles for this mess.


:cheers:


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

I worry that his replacement won't have the defense down pat like Scott did when things were clicking. His offense was mismanaged, but he had half of the game ticking lovely like.

Otherwise, woop.

Bit harsh on the timing though. Jesus.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Change is needed, change is good.

Our team hasn't gotten significantly weaker from last year till now, thus a shakeup is necessary. 25 games is enough, by Skiles words, to see what you've got.











K4 -- please, _please_, please give the Tyson thing a break. He ain't coming back. I think we can all agree on that. Both Skiles and Pax share some blame, but it's not like we'd be 16-9 with him on the roster. My personal opinion is that it's best to concentrate on maximizing out the current resources the Bulls have.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

The Bulls are a poorly constructed roster that was poorly coached. Firing the coach was the right thing to do, however, it only solves half of the problem.

The Bulls are hopeless until Paxson is canned too


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

cpawfan said:


> The Bulls are hopeless until Paxson is canned too


Way too early to say that. We used to say the same of Ainge/Rivers.

Pax never said this was a championship roster, neither had he declared the roster complete. He gets another coaching hire and a season or two.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

King Joseus said:


> Who do you think we should target as our next coach?


I'll have to take a look at who is out there.... a name does not pop into my head at this time.

To be honest, Paxson is the problem, IMO. A fish rots from the head.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Over the span of five seasons with the Bulls, he compiled a record of 165-172 (.490) and guided the team to the playoffs three consecutive years, highlighted by a first-round series sweep of the defending NBA Champion Miami Heat in the 2007 NBA Playoffs. In eight-plus seasons as a head coach in the NBA, Skiles owns a career coaching record of 281-251 (.528).


Just under .500 in his time here. I'm betting its not so much the struggles of the team as it is personality conflicts behind the scene. I also wouldn't be surprised if this move is the preface to a trade.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

GB said:


> Way too early to say that. We used to say the same of Ainge/Rivers.
> 
> Pax never said this was a championship roster, neither had he declared the roster complete. He gets another coaching hire and a season or two.


No, it isn't too early to say that. It is a couple of years to late.

Ainge received two gifts. One from Presti who was told to make the Sonics suck so that they could move out of Seattle and the other from a former teammate of his.

All Ainge has proven is that if an incompetent GM is left in place long enough they can get lucky despite their own best efforts to screw up.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> A fish rots from the head.


I'd disagree that the Bulls are 'rotten'. They've underachieved this season, and Paxson, _like every GM out there_ has made some moves he wishes he could take back, but they're hardly rotten.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

cpawfan said:


> No, it isn't too early to say that. It is a couple of years to late.


Where should the Bulls be right now, and why aren't they there? Briefly, make the case that Paxson is a bigger problem than Skiles is.


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## YearofDaBulls (Oct 20, 2004)

I was a big Pax supporter but I have soured on him recently. It started with signing Wallace who has been a bum for us, trading Chandler, and then drafting Tyrus Thomas and acquiring Khryapa over just drafting Alrdrige. Those moves set up back.


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## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

Tasteless and classless move and anyone who condones it should be ashamed of themselves. Firing a man on Christmas Eve? Jeeze, I thought Pax was better than this.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

GB said:


> Where should the Bulls be right now, and why aren't they there. Briefly, make the case that Paxson is a bigger problem than Skiles is.


I can't make the case that he is a bigger problem than Skiles because I believe they are equally at fault and equally deserving of not being employed by the Bulls.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

It's interesting arguing I guess, but here's the inescapable fact: Paxson isn't going anywhere as long as Reinsdorf remains much more interested in the $ than in competing. Thus he's going to get quite a few trips around the block to get it right.

It's going to be interesting to see who he moves.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

knicksfan said:


> Tasteless and classless move and anyone who condones it should be ashamed of themselves. Firing a man on Christmas Eve? Jeeze, I thought Pax was better than this.


The guy is still going to get paid and now has time to work in TV and wait for another position.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

YearofDaBulls said:


> I was a big Pax supporter but I have soured on him recently.


I'm glad you are seeing the light. 

As time goes on, more and more will come around and realize that Paxson is a middling GM, and eventually his head will be called for.

Too bad we had to waste 5 or so years to get to this point.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

As for Skiles, this season wasn't his fault much at all. He's a guy trying to win now with the hand that Paxson gave him. We all know Skiles at this point, warts and all. I think he's a very good basketball coach, but not a great NBA coach.

I think Skiles really did come around over his time here. I'll miss him, although I do think that he eventually needed to go in order for the Bulls to go anywhere. OTOH, I don't think the roster Paxson put together is going anywhere, so it does not really matter who the coach is.

Paxson firing Skiles is yet another death blow to Paxson's failed, flawed, "right way" ideology. It now lays before us in tatters, a testament to a bad idea. The Bulls are middling, as many thought would happen when jib is placed before talent.

Talent trumps jib. Until Paxson realizes this, the franchise is doomed. The found money is burned and the luck has run out. 

BLOW UP THE TEAM. Merry Christmas.


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## Fergus (Oct 2, 2002)

I think the main issue was that the players were not responding to whatever Skiles was telling them. 

The effort and hustle that the Bulls evidenced in years past seemed oddly missing this year. While this is not all Skiles fault, he should have and ultimately did, take responsibility. 

It is very likely that like Doug Collins of years past, there are coaches who can only take a team so far. Looking at this years results, thus far, Paxon obviously felt that this was about as far as Skiles was going to be able to take this current roster.

You can argue that it is the roster that Paxon has put together that is the main fault and may be right. However, I think it will be interesting to see who replaces Skiles. This may be a "wake up call" to some Bulls players. Hopefully, the coaching change will send a clear message that "no one" is untouchable and everyone will be held accountable.

One last note: the bit on Reinsdorf only being concerned with money is lame (my opinion). He like almost every other owner obviously tries to avoid the luxury tax. Not only is it financially smart, but once you are over the luxury tax limit, your ability to make roster moves is severaly limited. Remember, it was Reinsdorf that paid Jordon the ?? $30 million a year at the end.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> Paxson firing Skiles is yet another death blow to Paxson's failed, flawed, "right way" ideology. It now lays before us in tatters, a testament to a bad idea. The Bulls are middling, as many thought would happen when jib is placed before talent.


Like in San Antonio? 

The whole jib thing is overrated and used as a slur against Paxson anyway. The top players in the league are talented and jibby---plenty of character, and no thugs among them. At random: Kobe (whom Paxson pursued), Duncan, Wade, Garnett, etc.

I think he'd take any of 'em in a heartbeat. Timing has been Pax's enemy more than anything else...


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Fergus said:


> One last note: the bit on Reinsdorf only being concerned with money is lame (my opinion). He like almost every other owner obviously tries to avoid the luxury tax. Not only is it financially smart, but once you are over the luxury tax limit, your ability to make roster moves is severaly limited. Remember, it was Reinsdorf that paid Jordon the ?? $30 million a year at the end.


:greatjob:


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## O2K (Nov 19, 2002)

this could possibly mean that kidd's coming to chicago...


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## Bullsky (Jun 11, 2006)

This is a dumb move.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

A thought on Skiles:

I think that coaches often carry the blame for the poor production of the players and Skiles certainly has nothing to do with the Bulls shooting a league worst percentage. If anything, Paxson's delay in extensions for Deng and Gordon, I believe, messed with their heads a little bit. No idea what is going on with Kirk. Perhaps he's trying to do too much, where Kirk would be an absolutely phenonmenal complement to a star shooting guard. A rich man's Derek Fisher of sorts. 

Skiles would be best served taking his "hard-***" approach to the college ranks where I think he could have some real success especially with the kind of defense he got NBA guys to play. A big conference school in the Big Ten or Big East who is in the middle of the pack right now would be best served to hire him. 

I'm not really sure what the answer is for the Bulls. Wallace's signing turned out to be a mistake though I am of the opinion that Chandler would still be languishing right now if he hadn't gone to New Orleans. I still believe that Deng is an All-Star, after all he is only 22 or so, and we'd be best served to lock Deng up along with Hinrich. I like a frontcourt of Noah, Thomas, Smith, and Nocioni (who can play the 3 as well), but believe that perhaps a trade along the line of Gordon, Wallace, Noah or Thomas (since Gray has proved to be an adequate reserve), and a #1 pick to pry McGrady or Arenas or someone along those lines may be the way to go. I'm a firm believe in sticking with the same guys (similar to a San Antonio, Detroit style) since it brings you continued success, but the roster is inherently flawed to a degree and perhaps it is time a change is made albeit a small one (that is, not overloading the whole roster, but using all this young talent to go out and acquire a legit #1 guy).


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

cpawfan said:


> No, it isn't too early to say that. It is a couple of years to late.
> 
> Ainge received two gifts. One from Presti who was told to make the Sonics suck so that they could move out of Seattle and the other from a former teammate of his.
> 
> All Ainge has proven is that if an incompetent GM is left in place long enough they can get lucky despite their own best efforts to screw up.


Although I don't agree about the Paxson part right now cause he did get this team out of dead last in the NBA, where the Bulls were every year after Jordan left.

I do agree about the Ainge part, he got lucky and it all started when the Celtics didn't get picks 1 or 2.

Oh, I'm putting my vote in for Rick Carlise. He did a great job in Indiana and he became the fall guy for Ron Artest screwing everything up!


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## tweedy (Apr 4, 2005)

Fergus said:


> You can argue that it is the roster that Paxon has put together that is the main fault and may be right. However, I think it will be interesting to see who replaces Skiles. This may be a "wake up call" to some Bulls players. Hopefully, the coaching change will send a clear message that "no one" is untouchable and everyone will be held accountable.


I've long thought that Carlisle would be an excellent coach for this roster. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the idle big name coaches expressed interest. I wouldn't be surprised if Boylan is chosen interim coach, either. Even if Pax goes the interim route, I like the move. These guys need to be freed up.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

roux2dope said:


> I dont care how bad the bulls have done, why fire him on christmas eve.. tasteless.


I agree that was ice cold on paxon behalf but that might send a message to the team showing how serious the situation is could light a spark


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

A few things:

Whether or not Skiles deserved it, it seemed in the last couple of games as though this team had quit on him. Something had to be done, and regardless of whether you think it was the GM who was at fault, the coach always gets the axe in these situations.

I like the idea of Rick Carlisle as well.

This opens up Jason Kidd as a possibility, as stated earlier in the thread. Kidd wants out. If Pax is willing to make a short-term run at the championship, he'd be an obvious target.

Will this team have the typical spurt of winning that is often associated with a head coach's firing?

Who is the interim head coach if we need one? Boylan?

This also destroys the argument of those who view Pax/Skiles as a package deal. I'd assume there are a lot of shocked people out there by this development.

I'm excited to see what happens. On the Score today, David Schuster was reporting that Pax said the players are now "on notice" that if they don't turn it around, trades will be made.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

No, I think Paxson is just a jerk, who likes the feeling of power, and making others feel bad, or portraying them in a bad light.

-Jamal Crawford, writings on the wall. Treated Crawford like the Cavs treated Varejao...look at how much Varejao hates the Cavs management.
-Corey Blount, cutting him after the deadline which prevented him from playing on a playoff roster (and I think ultimately, without being able to be on a playoff roster, ran him out of the league). 
-Tim Thomas/Eddie Robinson sitting out. I think this is a GM, I think Skiles would have been perfectly fine making fun of the two through the media.
-Scott Skiles contract negotiations. It was never a negotiation. Paxson pissed Skiles off out of the room, Jerry Reindsorf had to finish the deed.
-Eddy Curry, took the opinion of 1 doctor over that of 26, and kept ranting for an unrefined DNA test, just to drive Curry's value down.
-Ben Gordon, again no negotiation. Offered him around 45 million. Majorly pissed him off. Skiles was taking a stance in Gordon's corner.
-Luol Deng, offers him around 50 million. Lies to the media about there being an offer of 60 million on the table, making Deng out to be a liar, pissing Deng off majorly. 

Skiles was definitely a players coach. Maybe not in the past, but this year, he gave Gordon/Deng a long leash (and Hinrich) through their bad play. I think firing Skiles was a direct response by Paxson to Gordon leaking out all of Paxson's bull**** to the press. A, you leak the dirt, I fire the coach you like.

Now I think firing Skiles is going to be good overall. An offense where Kirk doesn't dominate the ball like AI despite us knowing he can't score that good is going to be great. But that doesn't change the fact that Paxson is a major slimeball.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Cant disagree with anything being said on here, whether it be negative or positive about both Skiles and Paxson. 

Skiles had to go. Someone had to take the axe. Right or wrong he is gone. 

As someone pointed out his record is below .500 with this team. Even the three years we made the playoffs we were barely over.500. 

I agree we are flawed. Veteran size is one area and a real go to guy is another. 

Will Paxon go? He may eventually. Not now. 

Wallace has to go in a trade.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> This also destroys the argument of those who view Pax/Skiles as a package deal. I'd assume there are a lot of shocked people out there by this development.
> 
> I'm excited to see what happens. On the Score today, David Schuster was reporting that Pax said the players are now "on notice" that if they don't turn it around, trades will be made.



Agree with number 1. It really tells us what Pax thinks of the potential of the roster.

As for number 2 --> Same thing he did with Cartwright.


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## charlietyra (Dec 1, 2002)

BG7 Lavigne said:


> No, I think Paxson is just a jerk, who likes the feeling of power, and making others feel bad, or portraying them in a bad light.
> 
> -Jamal Crawford, writings on the wall. Treated Crawford like the Cavs treated Varejao...look at how much Varejao hates the Cavs management.
> -Corey Blount, cutting him after the deadline which prevented him from playing on a playoff roster (and I think ultimately, without being able to be on a playoff roster, ran him out of the league).
> ...


This is the post of the month IMO. I truly despised Krause the last couple of years of his tenure but I think Paxson is approaching that level very quickly. Notwithstanding Skiles' shortcomings, Paxson's personnel moves have been terrible.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

truebluefan said:


> Cant disagree with anything being said on here, whether it be negative or positive about both Skiles and Paxson.
> 
> Skiles had to go. Someone had to take the axe. Right or wrong he is gone.
> 
> ...


I was playing around, figuring that although I hate when GMs do things like this, it seems Paxson will probably shake things up in an effort to save his job. I'm wondering if the other teams will do these trades, but here are two back-to-back deals that will drastically alter this team...

*#1*
Chicago trades: Kirk Hinrich, Ben Gordon, Ben Wallace, 2008 #1 Pick
Houston trades: Tracy McGrady, Mike James, Bonzi Wells

Houston, another extremely disappointing team, retools around Yao with a more defensive minded approach. Hinrich and Gordon become the starting backcourt next to Battier, Wallace, and Yao in the frontcourt. With a legit post player to command double teams, Gordon and Battier will get more open looks. Hinrich is a more sound player than Alston and could become a Mike Bibby type with Adelman. Wallace suddenly doesn't look so bad at the 4, and with us taking back Mike James contract, the Rockets aren't taking that big of a hit. We get a legit #1 guy in McGrady, a back-up PG in James, and another rotation guy in Wells who could fill in at the 2/3/4 for the Bulls.

*#2*
Chicago trades: Luol Deng, Tyrus Thomas, Joe Smith, Viktor Khryapa
Memphis trades: Pau Gasol, Hakim Warrick

Memphis can finally move on past the Gasol era as its clear they won't be winning anything soon with him. In return, they get a potential all-star in Deng along with Thomas and Smith to shore up their frontcourt. A lineup of Navarro, Miller, Deng, Gay, and Milicic could be scary in two years with Conley, Thomas, and some draft picks coming off the bench. The Bulls get Gasol to be their #2 and the two most notorious players to not make it out of the first round combine their powers to form Captain Planet, I mean, a still young East contender.

BULLS STARTERS
PG-Chris Duhon
SG-Tracy McGrady
SF-Andres Nocioni
PF-Pau Gasol
C-Joakim Noah

BULLS BENCH
Mike James/Thabo Sefolosha/Bonzi Wells/Aaron Gray

BULLS RESERVES
Adrian Griffin/Hakim Warrick

Call it the Danny Ainge strategy.


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## Jib Meister (Sep 24, 2007)

Is there serious talk about interim coach for the rest of the year? I guess Pax is giving up on this year and hoping for a lotto pick. Let's start the draft thread.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

knicksfan said:


> Tasteless and classless move and anyone who condones it should be ashamed of themselves. Firing a man on Christmas Eve? Jeeze, I thought Pax was better than this.


Scott doesn't give a s**t about that. Why should we? It's not like it's ruined his Christmas. He can spend it at home now rather than flying to Texas.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

T.Shock said:


> I'm not really sure what the answer is for the Bulls. Wallace's signing turned out to be a mistake though I am of the opinion that Chandler would still be languishing right now if he hadn't gone to New Orleans.


The answer was to fire Skiles and see how much of the rest of the talent was underutilized before it's given away ala Chandler.


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## thaKEAF (Mar 8, 2004)

I dont know T. Shock, do you think T-Mac and Gasol could do any better than T-Mac and Yao?


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Gordon: Everyone surprised, even if we should expect it. We're taken a-back. For the younger guys this is the first time they've felt this.
> 
> Hinrich: Always a chance for it when you play bad. That's the way it is. Unfortunately it happened.
> 
> ...


From elsewhere...


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

John Paxon: "Sorry Scott, but it just feels like you lost the passion and the fire and without that we cant win a championship."

Scott Skiles: "Are you EDIT serious..."

John: "I'm afraid so, acording to our research Jibiness, passion and most importantly Freakishness are at an all time low. I'm sorry Scott but we are replacing you with Andres Nocioni as interim coach with Mike Ditka taking over in 08-09. We believe that this is the best move for our organization and by just mentioning both names our Jib meter has shown an impressive spike. "

Scott Skiles: "You know you cant win a championship without great talent."

Pax: "Hahaha, Talent and good coaching doesnt win championship's you silly man, hustle and gym rattiness are whats going to put us over the top. It's only a matter of time before Thabo, Noah and Thomas turn into what your kind calls "Superstars". By the way with the extra money we are going to free up we are signing Ben Wallace to a contract extension since I think hes turning the corner."

Scott Skiles: "Sorry I stopped listening when Dallas texted me a couple of minutes ago... SE YA LOSERS"


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Even though he'll get paid, and even pick up some more cash from tv......You simply can't fire someone on Christmas eve. 


I like Carlisle for what it's worth though. Either him or someone who will instill a running offense. Thomas could blossom under a coach like that


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

mediocre man said:


> Even though he'll get paid, and even pick up some more cash from tv......You simply can't fire someone on Christmas eve.
> 
> 
> I like Carlisle for what it's worth though. Either him or someone who will instill a running offense. *Thomas could blossom under a coach like that*


Thomas needs a coach who can run, shoot and defend for him in order for THomas to improve.


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## Case (Dec 17, 2007)

knicksfan said:


> Tasteless and classless move and anyone who condones it should be ashamed of themselves. Firing a man on Christmas Eve? Jeeze, I thought Pax was better than this.


I agree. And I usually support and respect Paxson.

This is not a move I would make, and I'm very disappointed right now.


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## jimmy (Aug 20, 2002)

really disappointing and surprising

I liked Skiles as coach and thought he should have won COY during his first full season here. Sure, this year's been awful and I've had my complaints with the offensive system and rotation, but I certainly blame Paxson and some key players (namely Ben Wallace, Hinrich, and Deng) before Skiles. 

I hope he lands on his feet somewhere.


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## Jib Meister (Sep 24, 2007)

IMO, his refusal to play Tyrus did him in. Skiles doesn't do entitlement minutes, but it definitely sounds like that's what Paxson wanted. I'm sure Scott's inability to properly utilize Tyson Chandler didn't help either. Whoever this next coach is, look for him to play Tyrus 30 mpg.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

i disagree with the move 

it smells of tanking honestly, in season coaching changes rarely are sparks that ignite a season, basically the team starts from scratch while other teams are months ahead of them making an already difficult situation even harder , the bulls dont strike me as a team that didn't care and needed a wake up call so I strongly doubt they will be better for this move for the rest of the season, How many top picks does an already mediocre roster need especially when they keep taking the wrong players ?

that question will likely be answered next june.

Skiles wasn't the problem , the lack of a consistent post presence , top caliber go to guy and well thought out vision was the team's undoing.

he was what he was a good coach who specialized at a few things and basically sucked at others , but his players played hard and seemed organized and well coached. he couldn't coach low post big men for his life , but the bulls aren't really stocked with them anymore .

Ego is a problem out of the GM's office, lack of experience too.

he took a team where there were some talented players ...added some more talented players but then took it to an extreme as far as their talents that was foolish and gave diminished returns as far as ability to win.

why give away Crawford and get nothing of use for him?

he gave away talent at first because he thought he could win immediately with more proven vets suplementing the 3 C's (guys like hassell and hioberg were sent away for pip and gill)

why give away chandler and get nothing close to his value for him?

why box yourselves into a corner with curry ultimately forcing a trade for talent that isn't ready to compete.

why is the only inseason deal over 4 years ago ?

doesn't this team really need one? didn't last season's team need one too?

the good cop/bad cop thing Pax and reinsdorf didn't help team morale and also the team basically knows the rest of them are playing for the scraps when their contract is up , like what happened with deng and gordon.

No GM is perfect but there are some mistakes that aren't supposed to be made.

Skiles is taking a fall for something that is _mostly_ not his fault.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Da Grinch said:


> his players played hard and seemed organized and well coached.


Not this year.


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## harley (May 24, 2006)

I wonder who will be the coach.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

harley said:


> I wonder who will be the coach.


I assume Pax is making an offer to somebody not in the organization. Otherwise, I assume he would have designated an assist coach as interim already.


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## BeZerker2008 (Jun 29, 2006)

I for one and just not happy about this at all, I just hope they don't get a 'Players' coach as that's the last thing this team needs babying.

I say get Stormin' Norm for an assistant job, he could kick their arse's when they need it.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Maybe LB's waiting in the wings...


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

I heard on ESPN Radio that the beat guys feel we could see Jim Boylen close out the year and we'll see a new permanent coach next season.

I'm sure Paxson will face a grilling tomorrow about this and we'll get some good info... oh wait ... its Christmas. Funny, that.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> I heard on ESPN Radio that the beat guys feel we could see Jim Boylen close out the year and we'll see a new permanent coach next season.
> 
> I'm sure Paxson will face a grilling tomorrow about this and we'll get some good info... oh wait ... its Christmas. Funny, that.


I thought the best move for the Bulls from your viewpoint was to tank the season. If Boylen being interim coach for the rest of the season was the plan in place, I thought you would have been a happy man.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

* 1 of Deng or Gordon will be gone by the deadline or the START of the next NBA season

* Guys said they wanted Gray to play more (Wallace less, maybe?)

* Sefo lost confidence with Skiles, expect him to play more, as will Noah, TT, Khryapa & Gray. Pax will try to raise their trade value as MUCH as possible (I'd assume)

* Pax will play a big role in the minutes distribution along with the interim coach


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## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

Bullsky said:


> This is a dumb move.


I have to say, the last time you called something a dumb move, it referred to pretty much all scenarios regarding a certain Top 20 ALL TIME player. KB.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Rhyder said:


> I thought the best move for the Bulls from your viewpoint was to tank the season.


The best move is to fire Paxson.

We're in this mess because of him. If the Knicks didn't unexpectedly suck, we'd be really screwed.

Sadly, I do think the best move is to blow Paxson's mess up, keep Deng, Nocioni, TT, and Noah and stock up on the lotto picks. We need a freaking star, and if Paxson is too much of a ***** to make a trade, it looks like the lotto it is. 

Dumping Skiles, who, IMO, pretty much always got the most out of his players, is a great move help further the cleansing of the flawed, dying “right way” ideology out of this Chicago Bulls franchise. He'll win a few more games than he should with this jib team.


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

We'll make the playoffs. The goal isn't to LOSE here but simply, to develop. We might make it with say a 41-41 type record and get beat by Detriot or Boston. But all of our young guys will have played a TON to spark some gm's interest by the deadline or this off-season. We're taking a step back to take two steps forward. S&T deals will be avalible for Deng & Gordon (if they're still here). We have plenty of options and tanking definintely won't be one of them. You don't just decide to rebuild because your teams in a funk. You have to ignite the players and make em' believe again.

We'll be able to get a star by the deadline if these kids play well, if not then, definintely this off-season.

Oh yeah,

Run & attack. Become a 'defensive G.S./Phoenix' type of team.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Good riddance. I never have liked him at all, and I'm damn glad he's finally history. Now, if only it wasn't a long time ago, as others have started, so our other young players we traded could've developed. Face it, Skiles was HORRIBLE at developing talent at all, especially big men, which used to be our forte (Chandler/Curry), and never has been due to the coach.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

Hello everyone. I haven't been posting much since I've been busy going through peace officer training and the academy doesn't allow me much free time to follow my Bulls. I've got 8 more weeks to go, they gave us a week off for Christmas so I'll post some quick thoughts. 

2006 draft. Brandon Roy was my guy in that draft and I thought he would be better than Hinrich/Gordon by his 2nd year. Still disappointed we passed on Roy, but still have faith in Tyrus. Thabo has been a huge letdown. I wanted Ronnie Brewer at #16 but Thabo impressed me during his first summer league with us, so I was willing to give him a chance. Thabo could still turn out to be a decent Small Forward in this league but that's not what we need. 

I hated the Chandler trade a year ago and man is it depressing to see how bad Ben Wallace is this year. Pax's worst moves by far... and it only feels that much worse given we no longer have Skiles, the guy who Chandler supposedly couldn't play for. 

What I'd do if I were running things...

1) Hire Hubie Brown to be the short-term coach. Have him coach the rest of this year and next year too if he's willing. I don't think Hubie cares so much about winning a championship as he does about just teaching/coaching the game. He's probably been one of the biggest Bulls homers over the years and he seems like the type of guy who would relish working with our group of young guys. 

2) I'd try to trade Wallace asap. Forget about adding another frontcourt player to pair with him... Wallace is part of the problem. The sooner Pax figures that out, the better. Admit you F'd up with that signing and cut your losses. 

3) Trade at least one of Gordon/Hinrich. One guy dribbles too much without getting much done, the other can't dribble too much without falling down. We need a playmaker in the backcourt, someone who can attack the rim and actually finish or create easy buckets for others. 

4) Give more minutes to Noah, Tyrus, Gray, Thabo. We need to see what we've got with these guys. 

5) Make another run at a consolidation trade. Pau Gasol... he's having a disappointing season and injured again. I also like the idea of Tracy McGrady or even Jason Kidd. Look what Kidd did for Kenyon Martin and Mikki Moore. We've got similar bigs in Noah/Thomas (K-Mart) & Joe Smith (Moore). T-Mac could be our go-to guy and wouldn't cost nearly as much as acquiring Kobe would've been. Houston is also one of the few places where Ben Wallace makes a lot of sense (next to Yao Ming). They also loved Thabo during last year's draft and were prepared to draft Thabo over Rudy Gay with their 8th pick had they kept it. Instead they traded the pick for Shane Battier. 

Merry Christmas. I smell a trade or two coming up and hopefully I'll get around to posting more often.


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

Wow. Just wow. I can't say I saw this coming. I don't think Skiles should get the blame for this team not having a post presence. Very interesting to see who's going to replace him. I'm not one bit interested in Rick Carlisle either, I think he's done. If it's possible, I think our offense would be even worse with him in charge.

Hopefully this gives the players a kick-start, and players like TT and Thabo can get more confidence knowing they aren't going to be yanked after every mistake.

Goodbye coach Costanza!


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

I thought Skiles was a great fit when he first came aboard. Should've been coach of the year after 47 wins with a young unproven team.

Sadly, that was the peak for Skiles. Good fit aside, I always had questions about him and those things proved to be his downfall. Will be interesting to see who we go for next, and if a different style can yield results.

I'm a fan of our players and think we have great blend of youth, talent, and depth...one of the league's best actually (in terms of having all three). Not to say a trade isn't needed, but there's PLENTY to salvage with a good move or two.


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

While I appreciate what Skiles did in his time, he was absolutely awful with young big men. Curry, Chandler, Thomas, Noah, blah blah blah. Not one young big guy could ever get consistent playing time with Skiles. 

It is time to get something out of young big men. Also time to get some kind of trade value for our players. With Skiles way, it seems everyone loses confidence at some point. I appreciate what he did, but it was time. And as much as I supported Paxson for what he did, his last two offseasons have stunk. The clock is ticking for Pax...

I just can't see Skiles assistant Boylan giving us any kind of a boost. This season now is all about developing players games and confidence to the point they are valuable to either keep or trade. We are full of average players.


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## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

Sham said:


> Scott doesn't give a s**t about that. Why should we? It's not like it's ruined his Christmas. He can spend it at home now rather than flying to Texas.


Just because he says he doesn't care doesn't mean it's true. Do you honestly expect him to say " **** Paxson, I hope he burns for eternity for how he treated me, he really ruined my Christmas"? Of course not, Skiles is a man of respect and honor. John Paxson is a low-class human being. Firing a man on Christmas Eve, I thought even Pax was better then this. First he treats Eddy Curry like crap now he runs his longtime head coach out of here after HE is the one who is responsible for the Bulls downfall this year. Now what does he do to top THAT off? He fires the guy on CHRISTMAS EVE. Anyone who condones this is every bit as low-class as John Paxson is. And yes, I can make that argument if you really need me to explain it to you. How shamefull and low-class of Pax.


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## BullsAttitude (Jun 11, 2002)

knicksfan said:


> Just because he says he doesn't care doesn't mean it's true. Do you honestly expect him to say " **** Paxson, I hope he burns for eternity for how he treated me, he really ruined my Christmas"? Of course not, Skiles is a man of respect and honor. John Paxson is a low-class human being. Firing a man on Christmas Eve, I thought even Pax was better then this. First he treats Eddy Curry like crap now he runs his longtime head coach out of here after HE is the one who is responsible for the Bulls downfall this year. Now what does he do to top THAT off? He fires the guy on CHRISTMAS EVE. Anyone who condones this is every bit as low-class as John Paxson is. And yes, I can make that argument if you really need me to explain it to you. How shamefull and low-class of Pax.


I guess some of you all didn't see Ric Bucher's response to the firing, he said everyone was surprised including John Paxson. Paxson was going to wait till the end of the season until he made a decision on Skiles.

It was Reinsdorf who made the decision for the change now, he was afraid the team wasn't going to turn things around this season unless a change was made.

From hear say, it was stated by some players that Scott had quit on them, so they quit on him. Some change was needed and this not the end of some changes. I do hope though that the younger talent does get more burn on the court now.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Sounds to me like Wallace never got along with Skiles (going back to headbandgate), and so Wallace found also-disgruntled players to torpedo Skiles' authority.


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

O2K said:


> this could possibly mean that kidd's coming to chicago...



I don't believe that is such a far fetched idea and actually what/who this team needs

If the Nets would accept a package of Kirk Hinrich as the principal and any one of our young assets not named Tyrus or Joakim - I would be all over it


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## Philomath (Jan 3, 2003)

GB said:


> Pax never said this was a championship roster, neither had he declared the roster complete. He gets another coaching hire and a season or two.



Agree! The GM should not be the one blamed for a slow start. These players had performed well before (proving they could), but are not now. Underachieving players that used to perform well, that's a coaching issue primarily, not a GM issue. The GM assembles the talent, the coach maximizes the performance.


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