# That's it: Bench Rasho, start Nazr



## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Enough is enough Pop, start the better player. Nazr doesn't have to get 30 minutes, but at least give him 20 minutes per night and let's see what he can do with the starting rotation. Nazr is a better player than Rasho, and it's only a matter of time before Nazr starts taking his minutes, but I think it's about time to make the switch now. Nazr > Rasho.


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> Enough is enough Pop, start the better player. Nazr doesn't have to get 30 minutes, but at least give him 20 minutes per night and let's see what he can do with the starting rotation. Nazr is a better player than Rasho, and it's only a matter of time before Nazr starts taking his minutes, but I think it's about time to make the switch now. Nazr > Rasho.


i think what pop was thinkn at the begging of the nba season was our guards can score so much at will and we still need to get the ball to duncan(mvp) that we can substitute offense for defense by putting rasho in. but at this point i think narz is becoming a better defender and gets more rebounds, and with duncan in the middle we can put narz in.


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

I'm not impressed with either of them. Give Oberto big minutes and see what he can do with them.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Oberto is a spark off the bench. If Pop really wants to use a defense-first style of player for Center, Oberto is not the guy. Oberto is the perfect type of guy to come off the bench with the energy and style of play he has. I think Nazr is better when he starts because he's in the flow of the game right from the start instead of having to come in with the 2nd team in the middle of the game and adjust on the fly. 

I'll give Rasho a little bit longer to play better, but he's really not doing all that much right now. Mohammed is a lot more inconsistent, but I'll take his good with his bad.


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## Cloud786 (Mar 18, 2005)

Psssssst, we're showcasing Rasho...


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

Both Rasho and Nazr are so ****ing lethargic its annoying. I can't stand either one.


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## Guth (Feb 23, 2005)

I was listening to WOAI before last nights game and they were talking about this very topic. They said that because Nazr missed a lot of training camp, this is Pop's version of training camp for him. They made a great point, saying that in Pop's mind, we have about a 40 game preseason. That may not be something that Spurs fans want to hear, but I think it makes a lot of sense. Pop doesn't care about winning 70 games, he cares about getting the best team on the floor, playing their best basketball when April rolls around. As far as I see it, this is his most logical way to acheive that.


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## MagnusPinus (Aug 27, 2003)

Maybe pop wants to show Rasho and than trade him..Anyway the guy is a great defensive player, for sure usefull.. in the post-Horry era we will need him(and we will need Scola too)


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Guth said:


> I was listening to WOAI before last nights game and they were talking about this very topic. They said that because Nazr missed a lot of training camp, this is Pop's version of training camp for him. They made a great point, saying that in Pop's mind, we have about a 40 game preseason. That may not be something that Spurs fans want to hear, but I think it makes a lot of sense. Pop doesn't care about winning 70 games, he cares about getting the best team on the floor, playing their best basketball when April rolls around. As far as I see it, this is his most logical way to acheive that.



Well, it's not like playing Mohammed 20 minutes per game is going to kill him in April. We're only talking a matter of 20-25 minutes here, not 30-35. 


And as far as "showcasing" Rasho, I'm under the impression that Pop wouldn't play politics like that. Rasho is the steadier choice out of him and Mohammed, but Mohammed can bust out with some good games every now and then, while Rasho is consistently scores his 5-6 PPG and 5-6 RPG. Back to the showcasing part, keep in mind that Nazr's on a contract year this season, so why would Pop not try to showcase him? The odds are you're going to find teams out there willing to deal for Mohammed, but I doubt anyone wants Rasho and his contract.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

I think that you can move Rasho+Barry to Orlando...

Rasho+Barry+draft rights of Ian Mahinmi and a 2nd rounder (or maybe some other 2nd rounder already drafted and actually unsigned) to Orlando for Tony Battie, Pat Garrity, the draft rights of Remon Van de Hare and Stacey Augmon (just to complete salaries)...

Talent wise, it's a good one for both...

Orlando: Rasho may be actually worst than Battie and have a bloated contract, but Barry is a way better player than Garrity, and plays SG, which is a position that Orlando needs some help. And they maybe use the 2nd rounder and sent to Memphis with Cato for Lorenzen Wright (which becomes the starting PF, with Howard at C). Fran Vazquez declined to play this season but I think that Mahinmi would agree to play now and help Orlando. 

SAS: Battie is a better C and have an expiring contract. Garrity may be a lot worst than Brent Barry, but isn't like this team will miss Barry so much, you actually have Finley to play as a backup SG, and even NVE or Sato when needed. Garrity can help at the perimeter, playing both SF and PF, and his contract won't kill the Spurs, since they get rid of two big overpaid players... They won't use Mahinmi much, since you guys already have a pretty good team, and still have Luis Scola draft rights! Remon is a big 7'3 C, I don't know if he worth something, I'd remember that he was drafted by Toronto and his rights were traded to Orlando...

I think that is one of the only ways to deal Rasho...


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

That is a horrible trade for us. I would never even consider that.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

No thanks on that trade. Neither team would be interested in that deal.


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## ballstorm (Nov 30, 2003)

terrible trade . and just for your information , mahinmi could not play right away . Contract obligations in france don't allow him to .


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## flip-flop (May 17, 2005)

hmmm. Seems like you Spurs fans from U.S. aren't satisfied with Rasho this season...I, too, was quite suprised to see him playing more and more in first games this year. However, I'm not so unsatisfied with him so far. Of course, in offensive play he still have much to show but in defence is much better than Nazr and he better understands team's playing style. But I'm sad that Udrih is playing less and less...


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Rasho has been playing pretty well lately actually. I've been pretty satisfied with him, but I still think Mohammed is the better player. Rasho might fit the system better, but Mohammed is the better player. It doesn't matter which one of the two gets the job done as long as at least one of them is getting it done. If it's Rasho, great, if it's Mohammed, great. 


As for Beno, he's in a tough situation. He had a really promising first season with the Spurs, and now he's in a situation where he's not even getting to build on what he did last year. I hope that he doesn't get stalled by this season, but sort of like I said above, I don't really care who plays the backup PG position as long as Pop is playing the more effective player. I think Beno could be doing just as well as NVE, but for now NVE hasn't done anything to lose the job.


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## hi im new (Jul 4, 2005)

GO RASHO! :clap:


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Just to update on this, here's both of their stats:

Rasho: 5.8 PPG - 4.5 RPG - 1.1 BLK - 54.3 FG%
Nazr: 5.0 PPG - 3.7 RPG - 0.4 BLK - 50.9 FG% 

Looks like Rasho has been better, correct? Yes, until you look at minutes per game. Rasho plays nearly 9 minutes more per game, and still puts up similar numbers. Nazr's projected numbers given Rasho's minutes: 8.5 PPG and 6.3 RPG, and that's only in a little over 20 minutes, which is very good production out of a Center. I'm not blaming Rasho for the team's recent struggles, I'm just pointing out that Mohammed has been the more productive player.


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## flip-flop (May 17, 2005)

I believe Rasho could easily score around 14 points and have 8 reb. per game if he wanted to. Remember the time when Duncan was injured last season and was missing in some games and Rasho easily got sth like 18, 20 points and 11 rebs in that series. I just don't know why doesn't he shots more balls per game now. Sometimes he actually moves out of the court at all, to make some space to the others. He is just too pasive but I'm happy to see that he is playing a little better now. Still, he has a lot of reserve in attack.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

This has grown more lopsided as of late:


Rasho: 21.6 MPG - 5.3 PPG - 4.3 RPG - 1.3 BLK - 53 FG%
Nazr: 14.9 MPG - 5.2 PPG - 4.7 RPG - 0.6 BLK - 53 FG%



Pretty ridiculous. The same production in a 3rd of the minutes.


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## TheRoc5 (Mar 1, 2005)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> This has grown more lopsided as of late:
> 
> 
> Rasho: 21.6 MPG - 5.3 PPG - 4.3 RPG - 1.3 BLK - 53 FG%
> ...


i really dont know what pop is thinking


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## Reign (Feb 8, 2006)

Nazr shows alot more energy than Rasho in my Opinion.. so yeah Start him and see how he goes......


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## temp (Mar 22, 2003)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> This has grown more lopsided as of late:
> 
> 
> Rasho: 21.6 MPG - 5.3 PPG - 4.3 RPG - 1.3 BLK - 53 FG%
> ...


In the interests of a bit of good natured gloating, I refer you to the following topic :
http://web.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2614487#post2614487
and quote myself:
"I would not be surprised to see Rasho's return to the starting center, at roughly 20-22 mpg."
Rasho is currently our starting center, and is averaging 21 mpg...

As to why, I think that 82 games might have an answer for you gentlemen.
On Court/Off Court Stats
Net Pts per 100 possessions:
Rasho : +3.1
Nazr : -1.1

Both play the vast majority of their minutes at C, and NET PER at C :
Rasho: -2.1 (Rasho's PER : 11.8, Opponents C PER: 13.9)
Nazr: -4.6 (Nazr's PER: 15.2, Opponents C PER : 19.7)

Yes, Rasho is worse on offense than Nazr (although I personally think that the offense flows better with him in rather than Nazr, but Horry, when healthy, is more useful still). However, Nazr is much worse on defense than Rasho... Popovitch wants D out of his center spot.
I am looking forward to us hopefully bringing in Javtokas this summer after Nazr leaves. If he works out (and I have high hopes), it will be nice to have a center who can play at both ends of the floor.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

Defense hasn't been the problem temp. Rebounding, and halfcourt offense have been the problems, and those are two areas Mohammed is better at than Rasho.


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## temp (Mar 22, 2003)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> Defense hasn't been the problem temp. Rebounding, and halfcourt offense have been the problems, and those are two areas Mohammed is better at than Rasho.


1) Tell that to Popovitch. He believes in defence from his C position, with offense being a secondary consideration.
2) Your opponent can out-rebound you by 60, it you score more than they do, you don't care. The figures I quoted were net +/- (points made less points given up). 
3) However, Mohammed has significantly upped his play over the rodeo trip. He keeps this up, he will keep the starting spot unless Rasho also steps up huge.


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