# Amare Stoudemire on the block......please try and get him Pax.



## JonH818 (Aug 31, 2006)

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/11294057



> At various times this season, the Suns have conveyed a willingness to move backup point guard Leandro Barbosa -- another D'Antoni favorite -- if the right deal came along. Given Phoenix's lackluster play of late, CBSSports.com has learned that the organization might now be open to considering a much bigger deal -- one involving Stoudemire.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

I don't see what we could give them.


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

Hehe..and I actually did "predict" possibility of Amar'e coming to Chicago lol

But the stakes are high. It would probably involve 3 team trade meaning 2-3 important Bulls would go.

All that for Amar'e? I think that's a no no.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Deng, Noah, Gooden, **** load of 1st rounders? I really don't think we'd have the pieces.


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## Philomath (Jan 3, 2003)

Well that's the thing... Amare is NOT going back to Phoenix in 18 months in my opinion. There is NO reason to pay a ton for him in the meantime... some, but not a lot, just to a) get an extra season out of him and b) lock him up before the other 2010 sharks get a bite.

The salaries have to match, which makes it hard. But if the salaries match, and they expire soon, throw in a young big, maybe a pick - that should be enough... Well, it would if only Amare were on a team with a really cheap owner. OH, wait, he is.

Gooden expires THIS year, I believe. That saves them money, or gives them a nice PF if they extend him. Gooden, Noc, and Noah for Grant Hill and Amare? Make the trade contingent on a 5 year max extension, and I think I am on board. Let's hope that microfracture holds up.


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## JonH818 (Aug 31, 2006)

Derrick Rose and Amare Stoudemire as the main pieces. You can fill in with decent role players and you are set. Someone that can shoot lights out from the perimeter would be nice. Someone like a Michael Redd, Kyle Korver or a Jason Kapono just to spread the floor.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

I would definitely go for a Gooden, Noc and Noah for Amare and Hill. I'd rather get rid of Hughes than Gooden though. But if we can keep Derrick, Hinrich and Tyrus, and get Amare, that would work wonders. I'd can Deng too if that's what it took, as he'll never be anything but average, and SFs with mediocre everything are a dime a dozen.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

If PHX wants to get young, I could see a deal with the Bull working. If they want to pull a Boston, I hope they trade with Detroit.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

Vinny, Paxson, Noce, Gordon and Gooden for Amare!

Sounds good to me.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

For Amare, I'll trade anybody on this team beside Derrick Rose.


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

RSP83 said:


> For Amare, I'll trade anybody on this team beside Derrick Rose.


Thats the kind of mentality you'll need to grab Amare.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> ... I'd can Deng too if that's what it took, as he'll never be anything but average, and SFs with mediocre everything are a dime a dozen.


I agree that he will eventually turn himself into average player, if he is lucky. But right now he is bellow average fourth scoring option and his statistics perfectly reflect that. His biggest problem is his sissyness (and of course his quickness) and a high sense of self preservation. Self preservation is a good thing, but professional athlete should be able to control that emotion while competing and fighting for every inch on the court. Without establishing a solid post play and aggressiveness he is nothing.

DVN should replace Deng with Noconi, as a starter and I am sure Nocioni will be twice more productive, while Deng will contain the same statistics.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

Bulls96 said:


> I agree that he will eventually turn himself into average player, if he is lucky. But *right now* he is bellow average fourth scoring option and his statistics perfectly reflect that. His biggest problem is his sissyness and believe me or not a high sense of self preservation. Self preservation is a good thing, but professional athlete should be able to control that emotion while competing and fighting for every inch on the court.
> 
> DVN should replace Deng with Noconi, as a starter and I am sure Nocioni will be twice more productive, while Deng will contain the same statistics.


While I'm not in agreement with you about Deng, let's pretend for a minute that I am. I'd change that "right now" to "this season" - right now (we'll call right now January) Deng's been pretty good. 15.7 PPG on 48.2% shooting and 8.6 RPG. It's too early to tell if these numbers will last, or if he'll go down with another injury, but "right now" Deng is playing well.

Nocioni is a fine backup - starting him is not something I'd feel is a good idea.


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## bmac (Feb 18, 2007)

Outside of Rose, the Bulls don't really have much Phoenix would want.

The Pistons deal is rubbish too. Sheed is 34 and his game is rapidly deteriorating, and Prince is a glorified role player (albeit a decent one). Phoenix could do much better elsewhere.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Gordon/Noah/Hughes for Amare/filler.


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

I don't see why Phoenix would trade their franchise player and their only player that isn't ancient. This is more than a long shot.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

The Bucks could put up a much better package for Amare, Bogut, Charlie V and Alexander get that done.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Ballscientist said:


> Gordon/Noah/Hughes for Amare/filler.


You should be the GM of the Suns.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

P to the Wee said:


> You should be the GM of the Suns.


He would be hanged 20 minutes after the trade by Suns fans.


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

I think Gooden should be involved in any deal with Amare in it rather than Noah, because if we get rid of Noah we don't have any centres and a bunch on PF's.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

garnett said:


> I think Gooden should be involved in any deal with Amare in it rather than Noah, because if we get rid of Noah we don't have any centres and a bunch on PF's.


Trust me you can easily find another Noah in the second round of the draft. If we dont get Amare because Pax doesn't want to involve Noah in the trade you better believe that Pax will be run out of this town.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

This one is even better.

marc stein says rockets needs to rebuild.

Bulls get Yao, Artest and Von Wafer

Rockets get Gordon, Gooden and Hugest


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Ballscientist said:


> This one is even better.
> 
> marc stein says rockets needs to rebuild.
> 
> ...


Cavs looking to get grindier how bout Noah and Thomas for Lebron James and 3 future first round draft picks!


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## Philomath (Jan 3, 2003)

Nobody really talks about Yao, I think because of his special stature as China's standard bearer and all the baggage that comes along with him. But he's as 2010 as anyone else and he is in his prime. It's worth expressing interest to his agent, 20-10 and two blocks is not to be sneezed at. I'm not sure if he's able to run with Rose though, ideally we probably want a more athletic big man.

As for Amare - I have the sense that his relationship with the Suns is deteriorating somewhat, which would make him more gettable, but I have been known to hallucinate.


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## JonH818 (Aug 31, 2006)

Aren't Paxson and Kerr butt buddies. Make a deal happen.


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## Nater (Jul 10, 2002)

Hinrich, Noah, and Hughes, and a 1st rounder for Stoudemire and Barbosa. The salaries work according to RealGM (http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=4949663). But I don't if Phoenix goes for that. It depends on how unhappy they really are with those two guys, and how afraid they are of losing Amare in 2010. But Hinrich does seem like the kind of player Kerr would love to have in place of Barbosa, especially with their newfound emphasis on defense.

(It also works with Hughes in place of Gooden. http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=4949653)


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## Nu_Omega (Nov 27, 2006)

Hughes, Drew, Deng, Noah and Kirk will be needed.

Phoenix needs help at the 1,2,4 and 5 spot in 2 seasons' time.

Maybe if we tank and throw in our pick, they might consider.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Nu_Omega said:


> Hughes, Drew, Deng, Noah and Kirk will be needed.
> 
> Phoenix needs help at the 1,2,4 and 5 spot in 2 seasons' time.
> 
> Maybe if we tank and throw in our pick, they might consider.


Hughes, Deng, Kirk and Tyrus is the deal.

Take it or leave it. We'll get him in 2010 either way, and without giving up any of the above. But I would trade him for ALL of the above right now.

No first rounders included. We are going to need them to replenish our roster. Especially WHEN gordon leaves.


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## Nater (Jul 10, 2002)

The Krakken said:


> Hughes, Deng, Kirk and Tyrus is the deal.
> 
> Take it or leave it. We'll get him in 2010 either way, and without giving up any of the above. But I would trade him for ALL of the above right now.
> 
> No first rounders included. We are going to need them to replenish our roster. Especially WHEN gordon leaves.


I don't think Paxson trades Hinrich unless Gordon is re-signed, or we get a guard in return (a la Barbosa).


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Nater said:


> I don't think Paxson trades Hinrich unless Gordon is re-signed, or we get a guard in return (a la Barbosa).


Use the pick that we are NOT throwing in, and draft DeRozan.


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## Nu_Omega (Nov 27, 2006)

The Krakken said:


> Hughes, Deng, Kirk and Tyrus is the deal.
> 
> Take it or leave it. We'll get him in 2010 either way, and without giving up any of the above. But I would trade him for ALL of the above right now.
> 
> No first rounders included. We are going to need them to replenish our roster. Especially WHEN gordon leaves.


Don't think we can just "get" him come 2010, he'll probably be asking for a max deal which management avoids like the plague. 

I like the Hughes, Deng, Kirk and Tyrus deal .....minus Hughes though.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Nu_Omega said:


> Don't think we can just "get" him come 2010, he'll probably be asking for a max deal which management avoids like the plague.


I don't believe that for one second. What management IS unwilling to do is OVERPAY for someone. I think its pretty safe to assume they offered Kobe a MAX contract a few years ago. I think it's also pretty safe to assume that the lofty Contract of KG WAS NOT the reason that they didn't pull the trigger on acquiring him. They didn't want to gut the whole team.

They just gave Deng a 72 to 80 million dollar contract. You think they wouldn't go much higher than that, for Lebron/Kobe/Dwight/Wade/Amare? That's crazy.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Man, I love me some Amare, but I wouldn't trade Kirk, Tyrus, Larry, Deng and Noah/Gooden or w/e for him. We'd have zero roster left, and Kirk and Tyrus are 2 of the guys that I see as being valuable to the team. If we did that, and only got back Barbosa and Stoudemire, this would be our roster....which is too thin and weak:

Rose/Barbosa
Gordon/Sefolosha
Nocioni/Sefolosha
Gooden/Nocioni
Stoudemire/Gray

That leaves us with 8 guys, and the ones we do have aren't very good other than Rose and Stoudemire. Those 2 would be great to build around, but how if we trade away the 1st rounder, and will be tight against the cap?


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

deng/rose/filler for amare...


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

silverpaw1786 said:


> deng/rose/filler for amare...


Rose isn't going anywhere.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

So... those clamoring for Amare... what was up with last night? Seems to me he was getting out played by Tyrus Thomas... and I realize that sounds a little ridiculous. I really don't think he's the answer to any of our problems, and I'd much rather pursue Bosh, who is younger, longer, and better.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

I'd take Amare over Bosh. Something about Bosh I don't like. I think that Tyrus and Amare together in the post would be awesome personally, especially with Rose at the point. Tyrus is more defensive oriented, and Amare is more offensive. Both are real athletic and can make plays. That was a great game to watch though, and Tyrus totally got hosed on that call where he had that awesome CLEAN block on Amare.


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## Nu_Omega (Nov 27, 2006)

Deng, Gooden and Tyrus for Amare and Grant Hill. It works salary wise too.

Saves them tons of money and inject youth into their roster. Hill, Shaq and Nash add up to over 100 years in terms of age!!

But chances are slim, our pieces just aren't attractive enough at times.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> I'd take Amare over Bosh. * Something about Bosh I don't like. * I think that Tyrus and Amare together in the post would be awesome personally, especially with Rose at the point. Tyrus is more defensive oriented, and Amare is more offensive. Both are real athletic and can make plays. That was a great game to watch though, and Tyrus totally got hosed on that call where he had that awesome CLEAN block on Amare.


Care to elaborate? I can't think of anything Amare does better than Bosh... maybe dunk.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Nu_Omega said:


> Deng, Gooden and Tyrus for Amare and Grant Hill. It works salary wise too.
> 
> Saves them tons of money and inject youth into their roster. Hill, Shaq and Nash add up to over 100 years in terms of age!!
> 
> But chances are slim, our pieces just aren't attractive enough at times.



Deng's recent resurgence may be helping in that regard.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

i don't have a problem with amare per se, but the "give up any and everybody not named rose" mentality is one the bulls will never adopt. keeping the team competitive can't be done with 2 guys and filler. 

a critical fact is amare's been on a team with all-stars, soon to be HOF'ers and a coach who a majority of bull fans feel was the second coming of big chief phil. and guess what? all he accomplished were stats, and some second round playoff exits. well, the bulls already have that. fans want to purge the "stat guy" on the bulls in ben gordon, (not that their equals, but for the roles they perform for their respective teams its relatively close) for selfishness, but the whiny, sulking BIG MAN, the bulls should "dump everybody" for?

on the upside, because of prior association, vinny *may* know how to get this guy to his self-perceived "superstar" status. or not.

if kerr and paxson can somehow get their heads together on a "pau gasol" kind of deal, i think it very well could happen. it'd definitely be interesting; but the tradeoff is definitely going to mean acquiring a an all-star big who's petulant, surgically repaired, one side of the court player, known for sulking during games, not getting along with his mates, *and* wants 20 mil.

the bulls need leaders, but amare's as big a risk as it gets......


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

BULLHITTER said:


> i don't have a problem with amare per se, but the "give up any and everybody not named rose" mentality is one the bulls will never adopt. keeping the team competitive can't be done with 2 guys and filler.
> 
> a critical fact is amare's been on a team with all-stars, soon to be HOF'ers and a coach who a majority of bull fans feel was the second coming of big chief phil. and guess what? all he accomplished were stats, and some second round playoff exits. well, the bulls already have that. fans want to purge the "stat guy" on the bulls in ben gordon, (not that their equals, but for the roles they perform for their respective teams its relatively close) for selfishness, but the whiny, sulking BIG MAN, the bulls should "dump everybody" for?
> 
> ...


Those are very astute and spot on observations. One's that I had considered but did not voice in this post merely for hypothetical reasons. For me, the bottom line is we need a big man. I prefer Bosh. I don't think we'll land him.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

I just think going out and spending a ton of money on a guy like Boozer or Amare Staudemire is a great way to doom yourself to a decade of mediocrity... maybe if we had all of the defensive pieces around him, including a few guys that can hold down the middle (Noah and T-Time, maybe? but they'd probably have to be dealt to get someone good) it wouldn't be a problem... I just don't see that happening.

I don't think championships are won with offensive minded power forwards (Karl Malone couldn't get it done, and he had John Stockton and a great coach) leading the way... the Tim Duncan's of this world are very different players than the Amare Staudemire's of this world. 

Why go all in for 21 and 8 out of a 27 year old Amare Staudemire when we could potentially get 21 and 8 out of a 24 year old Luol Deng next year?


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

Dornado said:


> I just think going out and spending a ton of money on a guy like Boozer or Amare Staudemire is a great way to doom yourself to a decade of mediocrity... maybe if we had all of the defensive pieces around him, including a few guys that can hold down the middle (Noah and T-Time, maybe? but they'd probably have to be dealt to get someone good) it wouldn't be a problem... I just don't see that happening.
> 
> I don't think championships are won with offensive minded power forwards (Karl Malone couldn't get it done, and he had John Stockton and a great coach) leading the way... the Tim Duncan's of this world are very different players than the Amare Staudemire's of this world.
> 
> Why go all in for 21 and 8 out of a 27 year old Amare Staudemire when we could potentially get 21 and 8 out of a 24 year old Luol Deng next year?


21 points from the low post and 21 points from the perimeter are two different things. Deng IMO won't ever command double teams. Amare haven't really been given much chance to showcase his low post skills. D'Antoni's offense is highly dynamic and involve little back to the basket offense. Now with Porter, Shaq is the main low post guy with Amare asked to be more of an inside-outside combo guy.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

RSP83 said:


> 21 points from the low post and 21 points from the perimeter are two different things. Deng IMO won't ever command double teams. Amare haven't really been given much chance to showcase his low post skills. D'Antoni's offense is highly dynamic and involve little back to the basket offense. Now with Porter, Shaq is the main low post guy with Amare asked to be more of an inside-outside combo guy.


Is it really that different if they're both shooting around 50% from the field? (and I realize this is on the low side for STAT, on the high side for Deng) It isn't like Amare is posting guys up either, so classifying them as "points from the low post" is a little misleading... when you post someone up you control the game in a different way... you can face your team, find open guys, and still create a shot for yourself... (see: Hakeem, Kevin McHale, Michael Jordon, etc...)... what Amare is doing is dunking the ball... facing up... getting put backs... I just don't see it as that much more valuable than shooting a 15 foot J (assuming they're both scoring with about the same efficiency)... are you saying he can post up, but just hasn't shown it?

Does Amare really demand double teams? We sure didn't have to double team him...


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Dornado said:


> Care to elaborate? I can't think of anything Amare does better than Bosh... maybe dunk.


Well, I admittedly haven't seen Bosh play all that much, but I have never once been impressed with him in any of the games I've seen. I'm not saying he's bad, but in all the games I have seen him play (dozen or so in their entirety) I have as of yet to see him look like he's half the player people hype him up to be. I haven't seen him play at all this year, or much last year, so maybe he's improved? Amare, on the other hand, I've seen have absolute monster games, where he dropped 30+ points, had great rebounds/blocks, and has the entertainment factor from the dunks. But, again, I've also seen a lot more of his games than Bosh's. I don't like Amare's attitude, or at least in the past when he was getting all those T's, but otherwise I love the guy's game. He is easily a top 5 guy that I would like to see on the Bulls. The rest are definitely not being shopped.


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

Dornado said:


> ... are you saying he can post up, but just hasn't shown it?
> 
> Does Amare really demand double teams? We sure didn't have to double team him...


kinda. Seriously, since his rookie year he never really had much chance to develop his inside game (because of the reason I mentioned in my previous post). Just because he doesn't do it much, doesn't mean that he's incapable. He's not Tyrus Thomas who I'm sure will never turn into a top 5 low post scorer. IMO, Amare has the potential to be a solid low post scorer similar to Shawn Kemp in his prime years. Not the best, but good enough to make a significant impact. He can also step out take the mid range J like Kemp. Bosh would be fine too. But, I think I haven't really see much of him playing at the highest competition (playoff). I've seen Amare in the playoff and there were times before his knee injury when he dominated Tim Duncan in a playoff matchup. He was much younger back then. I like Amare's attitude.

Earlier you mentioned that it'd take a Tim Duncan type player to win it all. While you're not wrong, you forgot that Karl Malone, Charles Barkley and Shawn Kemp all had chance to win it all. Too bad they had to face the GOAT, Michael Jordan. Also, my memory tells me that those teams (Jazz, Suns and Sonics) were very good teams. Didn't you remember how good the Barkley led Suns was? The Sonics was a very good team which was excellent offensively and defensively. The Jazz was the second best team after Bulls. I'd be happy to see the Bulls reach their level.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Yeah, but Amare couldn't hold Charles Barkley's jock strap, and the knee injury _did_ happen...


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

*Although I highly doubt it(Amare on the block), I honestly don't expect Paxson to make any moves before the deadline...
*
:sarcasm:


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Oh idk about that dsouljah9. I fully expect him to dump some good young talent for a scrub, and then later on lose the scrub for nothing.....see: Tyson Chandler for Benedict Wallace. So I wouldn't be surprised at all if he traded one of the 3 players I would like to see remain Bulls: Kirk or Tyrus...Rose being the 3rd.


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

Like I said, I don't expect any moves out of Paxson at all before the deadline or during the offseason. The only guy that needs to be traded is Larry Hughes and that isn't happening either. 

I don't see him trading Kirk or Tyrus either. If he trades Rose,unless it's for LeBron, he'd be shot on the spot

:azdaja:


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

dsouljah9 said:


> Like I said, I don't expect any moves out of Paxson at all before the deadline or during the offseason. The only guy that needs to be traded is Larry Hughes and that isn't happening either.
> 
> I don't see him trading Kirk or Tyrus either. If he trades Rose,unless it's for LeBron, he'd be shot on the spot
> 
> :azdaja:



Most sportswriters seem to think that Pax will make some sort of move. My guess is he unloads Hughes, though not for anything really appealing in return. The big man thing I give 50/50.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...08-bulls-amare-stoudemirefeb08,0,777535.story



> *Chicago Bulls have the pieces needed to acquire the Suns' Amare Stoudemire*
> 
> Appear to have what Phoenix wants for big man
> 
> ...


More at the link.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

It's a risky move, but I see high upside if we made this trade. People whined about not getting Gasol, but I actually think Stoudemire is a bigger scoring threat inside. Gasol is a better passer, but both are relatively weak defenders. Stoudemire at least has toughness on the offensive side that we currently lack.

IMO, this isn't anything like the Ben Wallace signing (which I think is what most people fear). Amare almost certainly has another good 5-6 years left, which is all we need from him. He would give us a potent inside-outside threat. So then, Paxson focuses on signing/trading cheap veterans who can play defense. Alot easier to find than a 20+ point scoring big man. 

As for Amare's attitude, it seems like it could be a problem at some point. I would cross my fingers that Del ***** had a decent relationship with Amare when he was with Phoenix management. Also, just keep giving him touches (which Rose will do) to utilize his scoring talent, and surround him with guys to do the dirty work. If it produces wins, then the rest should take care of itself. Yeah, I'm oversimplifying it but this is an opportunity we've been looking for.


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

I would like to personally smack him in his neck.

He's a lazy bum and he is clearly, clearly 25 10 player.

If he came to Bulls, add Rose who will be in next 2 years on Chris Pauls sophomore level, and rejuvenated Deng, plus Gordon, they could be a "problem" and they could be comfortable for playoffs.


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## BullsBaller (Oct 6, 2002)

Do you really think Reinsdorf will have that many highly paid players on his team. Rose is a lock, Deng is a lock, Amare is a lock, but adding what Gordon wants, as well. I don't think Reinsdorf is going to or would pay the 4th option as much as what Gordon wants. This is especially true for Gordon since all he offers on the floor is great scoring.


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## BullsBaller (Oct 6, 2002)

*Detroit vs. Chicago*

Do you think Steve Kerr would be more inclined to trade with Detroit where he can get pieces (Wallace -expiring/Prince) that can help them seize one more chance at winning a championship or trade with his buddy J. Paxson to get pieces (Gooden-expiring/Gordon-expiring/Noah/Thabo) that probably won't put them over the edge to try one more chance at contention? The traded players is just figuratively thinking.

Trade w/ Pistons
Nash 
Richardson Barnes
Prince Hill
Wallace 
O'Neal Lopez

Trade w/ Bulls
Nash Barbosa
Richardson Gordon 
Hill Barnes Thabo
Gooden
O'Neal Noah

Both teams look good, I just think a Sheed/O'Neal front line would all of a sudden put them in contention. Sheed isn't doing well b/c he isn't motivated b/c he knows he has no chance at winning with the Pistons, but getting w/ Shaq would most likely cause him to step up, realizing it is probably his last chance at winning a championship. Also, Nashes dribble penetration would allow him to pop out at the 3 for a lot of wide open 3's that he likes to do. It would be a lot like Nash with Nowitzki.

Dumars says anyone is tradeable, but does anyone see Kerr dissing his bud Pax to get a better deal with Detroit?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

I dont know why so many people on here are scared about trading for Amare without any guarantee that he will sign right away, lets not forget that his contract DOES run out in the big time summer or 2010. Why commit a max contract to Amare right now when we can test drive him for another season, see how he meshes with Rose and if the Bulls think they can sign a Bosh or Lebron instead of re signing Amare, that's possible also.


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## BullsBaller (Oct 6, 2002)

Would you guys rather have Amare, Rose, and no solid 2 or Boozer, Rose, and solid 2? 

I really want Bosh and I think we'll be good either way. However, I didn't realize how many stars w/ large deals are coming off the books in 2010. (Chicago, Detroit, Phoenix, New york, etc...) More teams than I thought have already or can easily postion themselves for 2010 and the more teams positioned for 2010, the less probability there is of Chicago getting Bosh. This is why I say deal now, but not for Amare or Bosh. I say get your starting 2 guard and get more money to come off the books at the end of this season to get the conservative choice in Boozer. *Of course this depends on how he comes back from injury.*

How about a 3 team trade involving Detroit, Chicago, and Phoenix. I posted this in the Detroit forum.

Detroit
Trade: Sheed (expiring)/Hamilton/Brown (expiring)
Receive: Stoudemire/Nocioni/Hughes (expiring 2yrs.)

Stuckey
AI Hughes
Prince Nocioni
Maxiell
Stoudemire Johnson


ChicagoGooden 
Trade: Gooden (expiring)/Noah/Nocioni/Hughes (expiring)/Gordon (expiring)
Receive: Sheed(expiring)/Hamilton/Brown (expiring)

Rose
Hamilton Hinrich
Deng Sefalosha
Thomas
Wallace Brown

Phoenix
Trade: Stoudemire
Receive: Gooden (expiring)/Noah/Gordon (expiring)

Nash Barbosa
Richardson Gordon
Hill
Gooden
O'Neal Noah

The deal gives Chicago a Championship caliber 3 guard rotation in Rose/Hamilton/Hinrich. They will have +13.5 mill in cap by letting Sheed/Brown go, as opposed to +1.2 mill be letting Gooden/Gordon go. Maybe we can sign Brown for dirt cheap (rebounding, size, defense, etc...) The +13.5 mill will be used to get Boozer who will sign for less than Amare and Bosh. The extra savings will go to pay Thomas' new contract thus allowing the Bulls to keep the young core of Rose 20, Thomas 22, and Deng 24. 

*2009*
Rose Hinrich Hunter
Hamilton Hinrich Sefalosha
Deng Sefalosha
Boozer Thomas
Brown Thomas Gray


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

if pax could trade for amare without giving them tyrus, that would be awesome.

how about getting jrich too?

hughes, gooden, hinrich, noah, tabo + picks

for amare and richardson


saves them a lot of money.


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## Nu_Omega (Nov 27, 2006)

BenDengGo said:


> if pax could trade for amare without giving them tyrus, that would be awesome.
> 
> how about getting jrich too?
> 
> ...



No way Tyrus is not involved in a trade to get Amare. I don't see them wanting Noah too since Robin Lopez is already playing back up to Shaq.

IMO Suns are in a rebuilding mode rather than a win-now mode, they'll need youth, picks and salary cap.

Hill might be gone come trade deadline.


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

McGraw has a Stoudemire article up entitled Whys, Hows of Stoudemire trade talk. http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=270527 

A good primer on the pluses and minuses for anytime that acquires him, and what teams could offer for him.


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## Merk (May 24, 2006)

To me the key to this deal is Thomas. The Bulls have two weeks to decide whether its finally clicked for Thomas and he's finally living up to his draft hype or this stretch is another tease in a long line of teases w/ Thomas


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> I dont know why so many people on here are scared about trading for Amare without any guarantee that he will sign right away, lets not forget that his contract DOES run out in the big time summer or 2010. Why commit a max contract to Amare right now when we can test drive him for another season, see how he meshes with Rose and if the Bulls think they can sign a Bosh or Lebron instead of re signing Amare, that's possible also.


Corrrect. And, as I understand it, the Bulls would be able to offer Amare more than anyone else by virtue of already having him on the roster, in the event he really pans out and the Bulls decide they have to hang on to him.

Seems like a no-brainer in that regard.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

jnrjr79 said:


> Corrrect. And, as I understand it, the Bulls would be able to offer Amare more than anyone else by virtue of already having him on the roster, in the event he really pans out and the Bulls decide they have to hang on to him.
> 
> Seems like a no-brainer in that regard.


Exactly! If we trade for Amare and he opts out of his contract in 2010 to test the FA market there is NO ONE that can offer what we could offer him. If he wants to go somewhere else his huge contract becomes significant cap space in a great FA season and even if lets just say everyone else re signs with their teams and the 2010 FA year is a bust NOBODY can offer Amare more than US!


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

I just wish we could keep Noah and Tyrus to go with him... they seem like perfect compliments to Staudemire.

Is it even possible that a combination of draft picks and wing guys gets the job done? We're paper thin up front already...


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## Good Hope (Nov 27, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> Corrrect. And, as I understand it, the Bulls would be able to offer Amare more than anyone else by virtue of already having him on the roster, in the event he really pans out and the Bulls decide they have to hang on to him.
> 
> Seems like a no-brainer in that regard.


Yeah, I brought it up, but as you say it could work in our favor. 

Just thinking of the parallels between this and KG's deal. For example, if we send off Kirk as part of this package, it would be a little painful if Amare goes after 1.5 years. You would think that we could keep him if we want him. I guess maybe the only real issue is whether he's dead set against staying in a cold environment, or thinks Pax is too much like Kerr, or some other non-monetary but significant issue in his mind about staying in Chicago.

It's nice to think about this happening, that's for sure.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Dornado said:


> I just wish we could keep Noah and Tyrus to go with him... they seem like perfect compliments to Staudemire.
> 
> Is it even possible that a combination of draft picks and wing guys gets the job done? We're paper thin up front already...


I think that Phoenix would demand at least one back though, given Shaq's injuries/age and losing their other starter in the post. Tyrus + Amare = sweet, but I'm sure that the rest of the league would value Tyrus over Noah too, as they should, so he'd be the one they'd want.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

I would love to keep Tyrus in any Amar'e deal, but I doubt that happens.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Marc Stein is having a chat over on ESPN



> Jeff (Chicago): Which team is the frontrunners in the Amare sweepstakes?
> 
> SportsNation Marc Stein: (5:32 PM ET ) Can't say we have a frontrunner yet. Suns phones are ringing off the hook, as you can imagine. They're talking to more East teams than West, if you want to narrow it down that way.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

SportsNation Marc Stein: (5:33 PM ET ) The preference would be to send him East. Chicago, Detroit, Miami, Detroit . . . all those teams are in the mix.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Todd Blankenship (Wauconda, IL): What is the most you would give up for Amare if you were Paxson?

SportsNation Marc Stein: (5:35 PM ET ) I'm sure the Bulls feel as though giving up Ty Thomas and Noah in the same deal is too much. But with so much competition for Amare right now, that would be a sacrifice worth making. To me.

Brian (Michigan): Any chance the deadline passes and nothing big happens?

SportsNation Marc Stein: (5:36 PM ET ) I really can't see it. I'm sure we've said the same thing in the past and have been disappointed, but too many teams are motivated to make moves. Too many big expiring contracts are being thrown around.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Andy (vegas): What do you see the Pistons offering? Is it as simple as Sheed and Amir Johnson? If so. DO IT, Joe. Kinda a no lose situation if those 2 guys are what it will cost you. Sheed is over it, b/c the Pistons are on a down swing (like he was over it in Portland...) and Amir just isn't going to be that good. DO IT

SportsNation Marc Stein: (5:38 PM ET ) If financial considerations are the Suns' No. 1 priority, that deal makes sense. But a team like Chicago, with Gooden's mid-sized expiring contract, can give the Suns cap relief and players who are further along that Amir Johnson. That's why you're hearing so much about the Bulls.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Mike, Phoenix: Is there any chance Amar'e gets traded to a western conference team?

SportsNation Marc Stein: (5:41 PM ET ) Not out of the question. There have been some conversations with Memphis and Sacramento, although I gather that nothing is close. The Warriors are likewise trying to get involved.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Cesar (tempe): Is a trade involving Marion and Beasley for Stoudemire the best offer the Suns will get?

SportsNation Marc Stein: (5:44 PM ET ) Problem with that one is that the Suns would have to put another player (Barbosa) in the deal and they don't want to.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Chris (Scottsdale, AZ): Marc, from your comments it really looks like all signs point to the Bulls, with Goodens Contract, Tyrus Thomas, and Joe Smiths trade Exception, if the Bulls land him what can he do for Deng and Rose?

SportsNation Marc Stein: (5:48 PM ET ) I wouldn't say "all signs point to the Bulls." Chicago just happens to be the potential deal that we know the most about. Also don't forget that the trade exception can NOT be added to other players in the deal.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Why the hell is TT and Noah too much (I'm talking to you Marc Stein)?

Damn, Chicago fans fall in love with their young, unproven players. Its a disease actually. Rose, Deng, and Amare is a great base to build around. Plug in a defensive 5 ala Przybilla. Re-sign Gordon to stretch the D, or trade Hinrich if he's not included in the deal with PHX. The Bulls still have some pieces to make it work. Get it done man, are we getting an Amare type of talent in the draft or FA the next two seasons? No way.


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## JonH818 (Aug 31, 2006)

Amare is a beast

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fzqPjBVFi8


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

superdave said:


> Why the hell is TT and Noah too much (I'm talking to you Marc Stein)?
> 
> Damn, Chicago fans fall in love with their young, unproven players. Its a disease actually. Rose, Deng, and Amare is a great base to build around. Plug in a defensive 5 ala Przybilla. Re-sign Gordon to stretch the D, or trade Hinrich if he's not included in the deal with PHX. The Bulls still have some pieces to make it work. Get it done man, are we getting an Amare type of talent in the draft or FA the next two seasons? No way.


I can't believe this is even open for debate. Hell, throw in Hinrich if you must. If you get to keep Rose and Deng, you simply MUST consumate this deal, PERIOD.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

I still say Deng is the most easily replaced, and would be the least missed guy, so trade him, and keep Kirk and Tyrus. 

A post tandem consisting of Aaron Gray + Amare, vs Amare + Tyrus is way worse than SF with Deng vs Nocioni. Give me Noc, Amare, Tyrus, instead of Deng, Gray, Amare.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> I still say Deng is the most easily replaced, and would be the least missed guy, so trade him, and keep Kirk and Tyrus.
> 
> A post tandem consisting of Aaron Gray + Amare, vs Amare + Tyrus is way worse than SF with Deng vs Nocioni. Give me Noc, Amare, Tyrus, instead of Deng, Gray, Amare.


I don't think there's anything quite like 35 minutes of Andres Nocioni to make you appreciate Luol Deng being on the team.


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## JPTurbo (Jan 8, 2006)

Haha that's one of the funniest posts I've read in a long time.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

JonH818 said:


> Amare is a beast
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fzqPjBVFi8


Every single play on there is a dunk.

A 6'9" powerforward who dunks a lot, can't handle or shoot that well... (though his shot is improving)...

Sound familiar?

Seriously, watching that highlight reel, it mostly made me appreciate Steve Nash.

Maybe I'm crazy... because it seems like everyone else on here is convinced that this is a good idea, I just don't think you build a title around players who aren't interested in defending... and I can't remember a championship team that didn't have strong interior defense. I think a lot of my hang-up is my irrational man-love for Tyrus Thomas... this is cliche, but I see something there, particularly on the defensive side of the ball, that leads me to believe that T-Time's teams will benefit from his being on the court in ways that the stat sheet can't quantify. Maybe we can find those kind of guys to pair with Amare, maybe not.

To give up 2 lottery-chosen big men in addition to our draft choice this summer... as well as what ever other players are needed to make the salaries work... I just worry that we'd be chasing a semi-star when we should be looking for a legit franchise big man. I feel the same way about Carlos Boozer. If it were up to me I'd keep Tyrus and the gang and go all out to get Chris Bosh in 2010.


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## JonH818 (Aug 31, 2006)

Dornado said:


> Every single play on there is a dunk.
> 
> A 6'9" powerforward who dunks a lot, can't handle or shoot that well... (though his shot is improving)...
> 
> Sound familiar?



I understand what you are saying but isn't that what you want in a dominant big man? Amare's shot is not as bad as you think. As a dominant big man, you want him to go strong to the hoop and dunk. He can also step back and shoot. I guarantee his shot is 4 times better than Tyrus'. Amare led the NBA in (and 1's) the last couple years. That's what a big man does. Don't you think that is his role?? Shaq is by far one of the most dominant big's that ever played. Does he handle or shoot well? We need a fearless big man that can really take it to the rim and play in the paint.


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## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

Dornado said:


> I don't think there's anything quite like _*5*_ minutes of Andres Nocioni to make you appreciate Luol Deng being on the team.


Fixed for you.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

Detroit for the now. Chicago for the later. I can't see any team pleasing Phoenix as well as either of us can.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

> If the Bulls are going to make a play for Amare Stoudemire, they'll likely have to include Kirk Hinrich in any package.
> 
> Steve Nash appears unhappy in Phoenix, and the Suns might need to replace him should he leave after next season. Because of that, the Suns would value a player like Hinrich.
> 
> ...


Via Chicago Sun-Times


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

That's a hell of a deal. The 2 players that I like, and want to keep on this team, are the 2 that are "must haves" for Phoenix in a trade for Amare. That sucks. Either way, I won't be completely happy. I want Amare, but don't want to gut the team and lose those 2.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

I'd be pretty upset if we dealt Hinrich and Thomas... I really like both of those guys.


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## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

I doubt Portland really trades Aldridge & Bayless, but if it's true I bet it happens.


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## Nu_Omega (Nov 27, 2006)

I don't see the Suns dealing Amare to a Western Conf team, Amare might be back to haunt them.


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

if the bulls trade for amare they have to give up the farm for him, they have to refill their roster with d league players.

there is no garantie he'll sign an extension. and if he does, he'll likely cost us 18+ a season.


gooden is likely to be out for the season, give tyrus 30+ mins per game, from what we've seen in the last two weeks it looks like tyrus is going to be a 20/10 player.

amares two knee surgerys and contract demands are scaring the hell out of me. 

i'm sure i'm the only one on this board who would rather keep tyrus and see him an rose hit their primes together, while amare will be on the decline will derrick is in his prime.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

BenDengGo said:


> if the bulls trade for amare they have to give up the farm for him, they have to refill their roster with d league players.
> 
> there is no garantie he'll sign an extension. and if he does, he'll likely cost us 18+ a season.
> 
> ...


You're definitely not the only one.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> I still say Deng is the most easily replaced, and would be the least missed guy, so trade him, and keep Kirk and Tyrus.
> 
> A post tandem consisting of Aaron Gray + Amare, vs Amare + Tyrus is way worse than SF with Deng vs Nocioni. Give me Noc, Amare, Tyrus, instead of Deng, Gray, Amare.


I am 100% with you on that.

After yesterday game against Piston, it became so apparent that Deng is not suitable for present roster.
Thanks God, his *** was placed on the bench early in the 4th quarter and team could recover 
from the 15 points deficit and get a victory. And I am glad that it was done with Nocioni contribution,
his leadership and Olympic champion spirit.

Once again, IMO, Deng is a weakest link we have and he costs us a lot of money. I hope Pax will trade him before a deadline … even just for a cap space.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Trade Thomas before teams actually start guarding him! His trade value right now is higher than its ever been in his entire career, Bulls need to take advantage of this quickly.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

> And I am glad that it was done with Nocioni contribution,
> his leadership and Olympic champion spirit.


+1:rofl2::rofl2:

so true....we bulls fans should be equally glad that the detroit pistons, coaches and teammates were dumb enough to not recognize the HUGE mismatch tayshaun prince had on "mr olympic champion" in the fourth quarter *with* the lead, virtually scoring in every way imagingable on the wooden footed nocioni, something noted repeatedly by king and funk, who are as clueless as they come when noticing game trends.......:eek8:


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## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

BenDengGo said:


> if the bulls trade for amare they have to give up the farm for him, they have to refill their roster with d league players.
> 
> there is no garantie he'll sign an extension. and if he does, he'll likely cost us 18+ a season.
> 
> ...


Deng is my least favorite player of the current Bulls. And prefer to see him go first before Tyrus. But, unfortunately we just signed him to a long term contract. Looks like we're going to stuck with him for awhile. Well he's certainly not the worst player in the world but his inconsistency and one-dimensioness bothers me sometime. I really hope he pans out and live up to his contract.

On Tyrus, I believe he will be a more valuable player than Deng down the line. But, honestly, I really don't see any leading role or even second option role in his future. I think at best he's going to be a very good role player similar to Shawn Marion. good but not enough. Amare despite what people say about his attitude he's more proven and has figure out how to play in the league and way ahead of Tyrus in terms of understanding what it takes to be a leading player in the league. And I'm sure his experience playing with Steve Nash allow Amare to understand how to utilize Derrick Rose properly. I don't know much about his attitude. But I think he's not Ben Wallace. Amare is still hungry.

If the Amare for Tyrus + others deal is on the table, I'd take it. It's time for us to take a big step before it's too late. This is our chance to finally take it up a notch in building a championship caliber team. We've been trying to win with a core of Deng, Gordon, Nocioni and Hinrich for the last few years with offseason acquisitions such as PJ Brown, Ben Wallace and Joe Smith. I'm tired of this short term fix moves. We need a bold move if we're really thinking about putting this team in the highest possible place in the league.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Trade Thomas before teams actually start guarding him! His trade value right now is higher than its ever been in his entire career, Bulls need to take advantage of this quickly.


I actually am pretty on board with this. Tyrus is creating the perception that he's improving (which he is), but I just seriously doubt he continues this huge upward trend. At best, he turns into a Kenyon Martin clone who averages 16 pts, 9 boards, 2+ blocks, but ultimately is not a reliable go-to scorer and shoots alot of jumpers. More than likely, I see him becoming a 12-14 pt type of guy who feeds off the space Rose creates. Hence, we need to take advantage of his surge in value.

My only hesitation with Amare is not his knee problems (he's had virtually no relapses I'm aware of), but rather the insane salary he'll be earning a few years from now. There are only a small handful of players in this league earning $20+ million per year (Marbury aside). Should we be paying Amare all that money when he is VOCAL about not playing defense? Or, why pay him that much when Tyrus might give 2/3 the production for 1/3 of the price?

It's really a difficult decision, but I would rather shoot for the stars this time around. We've played it safe already which only leads to regression as a team, it would seem. This is the type of move that energizes franchises to the point where you start winning in the playoffs.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

yodurk said:


> I actually am pretty on board with this. Tyrus is creating the perception that he's improving (which he is), but I just seriously doubt he continues this huge upward trend. At best, he turns into a Kenyon Martin clone who averages 16 pts, 9 boards, 2+ blocks, but ultimately is not a reliable go-to scorer and shoots alot of jumpers. More than likely, I see him becoming a 12-14 pt type of guy who feeds off the space Rose creates. Hence, we need to take advantage of his surge in value.
> 
> My only hesitation with Amare is not his knee problems (he's had virtually no relapses I'm aware of), but rather the insane salary he'll be earning a few years from now. There are only a small handful of players in this league earning $20+ million per year (Marbury aside). Should we be paying Amare all that money when he is VOCAL about not playing defense? Or, why pay him that much when Tyrus might give 2/3 the production for 1/3 of the price?
> 
> It's really a difficult decision, but I would rather shoot for the stars this time around. We've played it safe already which only leads to regression as a team, it would seem. This is the type of move that energizes franchises to the point where you start winning in the playoffs.


I concur. Tyrus is helping out any push for Amare we may be making by playing well - Tyrus will improve some more, yes, but will he end up better than Amare? I think this is a move you've gotta do - we don't want to miss out on a big opportunity, even if Amare does have his issues...


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Tyrus Thomas may contribute more to our teams wins and losses than Amare Staudemire today... and he's younger.

I know I probably sound delusional, but DEFENSE MATTERS. And, like Bill Simmons said in his last podcast, Staudemire plays defense like he's drunk. No thanks, I'll pass. 

Give me Chris Bosh (who we could pair with some of our defensive minded bigs) in 2010, or give me T-Time.


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## BULLHITTER (Dec 6, 2005)

stoudemire would be a helluva pickup, no doubt; but his question marks, price tag and what needs to be given up in return, do give me considerable pause.

i in no way believe rose/stoudemire/deng and filler will contend. i'm in agreement that some bulls need to be moved but,i'll guess we'll see on who the bulls truly value if they intend to take on that much salary for that many years, without any future assurances that there'll be no more room for any other significant moves, outside of salary dumps.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

RSP83 said:


> Deng is my least favorite player of the current Bulls. And prefer to see him go first before Tyrus. But, unfortunately we just signed him to a long term contract. Looks like we're going to stuck with him for awhile...


I am not sure why they can not get rid of him? Remember, they did that with Chandler.

Deng has to go. It is so simple, he does not belong to this team….his and team’s records/stastics fully supporting that notion. 

Few people on this board just don’t understand that. I don’t want get into details again (see my archive in case you are interesting) in order not to aggravate them or cause them an extra medical expenses ( I still very concern about Krakken’s health and emotional stability). 

One thing that I definitely want to stress out, is what affect have character and leadership spirit on game’s outcome. 

Some fans are getting sarcastic when we are comparing Nocioni vs Deng. I believe those people have no our idea what is a professional sport all about or what it takes to win a championship or small tournament, national, world or Olympics. Winning is about 75% of athlete’s ability to be emotionally charged and charge others on your team and only 25% about a personal skills.

So in my book, Deng is not even close to be compared with Nocioni, and if someone still things differently, I wish them a good luck and predict a long long journey thru their mediocrity live.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Dornado said:


> Tyrus Thomas may contribute more to our teams wins and losses than Amare Staudemire today... and he's younger.
> 
> I know I probably sound delusional, but DEFENSE MATTERS. And, like Bill Simmons said in his last podcast, Staudemire plays defense like he's drunk. No thanks, I'll pass.
> 
> Give me Chris Bosh (who we could pair with some of our defensive minded bigs) in 2010, or give me T-Time.


Thomas doesn't play good defense either, there is a HUGE difference between help defense blocks and actual try to post me up and I'll block you defense. As for the whole contributing to wins and losses I think Thomas is not a player you win because of, Amare is. 

As for Bosh I would also prefer Bosh because of his ability to hit the open 15 footer consistently, with Roses ability to drive and dish that would seem like the better combo but I dont think Bosh will be traded this year.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Thomas doesn't play good defense either, there is a HUGE difference between help defense blocks and actual try to post me up and I'll block you defense. As for the whole contributing to wins and losses I think Thomas is not a player you win because of, Amare is.
> 
> As for Bosh I would also prefer Bosh because of his ability to hit the open 15 footer consistently, with Roses ability to drive and dish that would seem like the better combo but I dont think Bosh will be traded this year.


Thomas is a good defender right now... his on the ball defense has been solid this year, in my opinion. He's always been an excellent help-side defender.


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

Dornado said:


> Tyrus Thomas may contribute more to our teams wins and losses than Amare Staudemire today... and he's younger.


Seriosly? I know Tyrus usually tries on defence and Amare doesn't..

But really, Tyrus Thomas would have a larger impact on your team's wins & losses than Amare Stoudemire..?


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## FrankTheTank (Jun 25, 2004)

sorry if this has been mentioned already. this site has become very slow and it takes too long to go through several pages... I keep reading that the Bulls have a 5.2 mil trade exception. that just saves whichever team were trading with 5.2 mil right? If so, would Goodens expiring 7.1 mil + the trade exception get another team that much cap relief after the season? I would think that that plus tyrus and a 1st rounder would be a pretty good deal for the suns if they're trying to save money.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

FrankTheTank said:


> sorry if this has been mentioned already. this site has become very slow and it takes too long to go through several pages... I keep reading that the Bulls have a 5.2 mil trade exception. that just saves whichever team were trading with 5.2 mil right? If so, would Goodens expiring 7.1 mil + the trade exception get another team that much cap relief after the season? I would think that that plus tyrus and a 1st rounder would be a pretty good deal for the suns if they're trying to save money.


Exception cannot be traded in a package, as I understand it.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

NewAgeBaller said:


> Seriosly? I know Tyrus usually tries on defence and Amare doesn't..
> 
> But really, Tyrus Thomas would have a larger impact on your team's wins & losses than Amare Stoudemire..?


I definitely wouldn't have said it at the beginning of the year... I just really disliked what I saw out of Staudemire when we played them... though keep in mind I did say "may" and not "will".


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

FrankTheTank said:


> sorry if this has been mentioned already. this site has become very slow and it takes too long to go through several pages... I keep reading that the Bulls have a 5.2 mil trade exception. that just saves whichever team were trading with 5.2 mil right? If so, would Goodens expiring 7.1 mil + the trade exception get another team that much cap relief after the season? I would think that that plus tyrus and a 1st rounder would be a pretty good deal for the suns if they're trying to save money.



The exception basically means we can absorb additional salary to make trades work. Since the Bulls can't take on more than even $1 million in additional salary before we go over the luxury tax threshold, I doubt we will see it used in this manner.

It's huge benefit to us is ease in working non-simultaneous trades (basically two+ trades with the same team at the same time), which is a lot more difficult to explain. I can if you would like, however.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Dornado said:


> Thomas is a good defender right now... his on the ball defense has been solid this year, in my opinion. He's always been an excellent help-side defender.


I agree that hes an excellent help defender but the man gets taken advantage by bigger PF's in the post and quicker 3/4's out in the perimeter, hes got a LOOOOONNG way to go before turning into a good defender.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> I agree that hes an excellent help defender but the man gets taken advantage by bigger PF's in the post and quicker 3/4's out in the perimeter, hes got a LOOOOONNG way to go before turning into a good defender.


We'll just have to agree to disagree here. I think he's further ahead as a help defender, which is pretty obvious... but I think he's done an admirable job both stepping out on smaller guys and getting big underneath... also, I don't really know of many 4's in the league that can do that well at all... Prime KG is the best example of someone who could step out and defend as well as defend the interior... those guys are few and far between. I think T-Time is on his way to being that type of defender.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Dornado said:


> We'll just have to agree to disagree here. I think he's further ahead as a help defender, which is pretty obvious... but I think he's done an admirable job both stepping out on smaller guys and getting big underneath... also, I don't really know of many 4's in the league that can do that well at all... Prime KG is the best example of someone who could step out and defend as well as defend the interior... those guys are few and far between. I think T-Time is on his way to being that type of defender.


Well dont forget that there's a difference between being able to guard multiple positions and being able to do it well. Kirk Hinrich can guard 1-3 but does he do it at a high level No. I think what you see with Thomas now is probably what your going to get, he just doesn't have the offensive skills to be a factor on offense and I don't think his defense is at a point where you can say that having him on the court gives you a better chance at winning than trading for a guy like Amare who does improve your chances at winning. When you got a guy like Thomas who gets most of his points on put backs and free trows it can trick you into thinking that he can score 20 every night, teams right now still dont guard him and I honestly think that once that happens your going to see a big time drop in his offensive production. Strike now while the Irons hot!


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Dornado said:


> We'll just have to agree to disagree here. I think he's further ahead as a help defender, which is pretty obvious... but I think he's done an admirable job both stepping out on smaller guys and getting big underneath... also, I don't really know of many 4's in the league that can do that well at all... Prime KG is the best example of someone who could step out and defend as well as defend the interior... those guys are few and far between. I think T-Time is on his way to being that type of defender.


My opinion is somewhere in between Dornado & bizkit. I definitely see Tyrus get knocked around, but it's not such a problem where he's a "bad" interior defender. 

I do however think Tyrus would benefit greatly from having an Etan Thomas or Brendan Haywood or Erick Dampier type around the basket. Those are BIG guys who can handle the man to man defense, while Tyrus could just float around and block shots. Przybilla or Diop wouldn't be too bad either, but those guys just suck so bad offensively.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

yodurk said:


> My opinion is somewhere in between Dornado & bizkit. I definitely see Tyrus get knocked around, but it's not such a problem where he's a "bad" interior defender.
> 
> I do however think Tyrus would benefit greatly from having an Etan Thomas or Brendan Haywood or Erick Dampier type around the basket. Those are BIG guys who can handle the man to man defense, while Tyrus could just float around and block shots. Przybilla or Diop wouldn't be too bad either, but those guys just suck so bad offensively.


Whats up yodurk. I'm not sure if Tyrus' last 10 games is the real deal or some deadcat bounce we've seen with any of our young players post-MJ. I'm of the same opinion at the five spot, however, when it comes to trading for Amare. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I would be willing to part with TT, Noah, and another piece to get the trade done.

It isn't very often that you can trade for a young 4 or 5 in his prime and if you get the opportunity, you have to jump. Trade for Amare and plug in an enforcer defensive 5 ala Pryzbilla, Damp, or Kendrick Perkins type. Someone to seal the lane and provide a defensive backstop. While Amare will arguably be overpaid eventually due to age/ability, these types of centers to fit alongside are more easily available or acquired and for less $$$.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

superdave said:


> Whats up yodurk. I'm not sure if Tyrus' last 10 games is the real deal or some deadcat bounce we've seen with any of our young players post-MJ. I'm of the same opinion at the five spot, however, when it comes to trading for Amare. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I would be willing to part with TT, Noah, and another piece to get the trade done.
> 
> It isn't very often that you can trade for a young 4 or 5 in his prime and if you get the opportunity, you have to jump. Trade for Amare and plug in an enforcer defensive 5 ala Pryzbilla, Damp, or Kendrick Perkins type. Someone to seal the lane and provide a defensive backstop. While Amare will arguably be overpaid eventually due to age/ability, these types of centers to fit alongside are more easily available or acquired and for less $$$.


Yep, absolutely!


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

I could live with an Amare/Pryz frontcourt, but would rather go smaller with Tyrus/Amare.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Don't forget, Omer Asik is going to come over in 2010 :yay:


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## Merk (May 24, 2006)

> According to league sources, Chicago and Cleveland are among the contenders. The Bulls would send Drew Gooden and his expiring contract ($7.1 million), Tyrus Thomas (this season at $3.7 million, next season at $4.7 million) and Thabo Sefolosha ($1.9 million and $2.7 million this season and next, respectively) to the Suns. The Cavaliers are believed to be offering a package including the expiring contract of Wally Szczerbiak ($13 million), Anderson Varejao ($5.7 million this season with player option worth $6.2 million for next season) and rookie forward J.J. Hickson ($1.3 million this season and $1.4 million next), although more pieces would need to be included to make that deal work.


http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/1624664.html


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

I would love to get Amare. We still need a center if we wind up with him.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Merk said:


> http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/1624664.html


Cleveland's package is way better than ours. The expiring contract is bigger. Varejao and Hickson are better than Tyrus and Thabo.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

T.Shock said:


> Cleveland's package is way better than ours. The expiring contract is bigger. Varejao and Hickson are better than Tyrus and Thabo.



I respectfully disagree. Gooden, Thomas and Thabo are better that Varejao and Hickson


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## Merk (May 24, 2006)

T.Shock said:


> Cleveland's package is way better than ours. The expiring contract is bigger. Varejao and Hickson are better than Tyrus and Thabo.



No its not, Neither package blows away the other but our deal is better


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Merk said:


> No its not, Neither package blows away the other but our deal is better


Ok. Let's break it down...

*Wally Szcerbiak's Expiring Contract vs. Drew Gooden's Expiring Contract*
Wally has one year and 13,775,000 million dollars left on his deal. Drew has one year and 7,151,183 million dollars left on his deal. The Suns would have to add one or two more players to the deal to make it work and one of those players could be Alando Tucker who has about a million per this year and next. So the Cavs could potentially offer double the cap savings that the Bulls can, not to mention that Varejao expires this year as well giving the Suns a whopping 18 million dollars off the books going into next year.

*Tyrus Thomas and Thabo Sefolosha vs. J.J. Hickson and Anderson Varejao*
Let's take a look at the stats per 36 minutes for each player...

Tyrus Thomas: 13.6 ppg/8.4 rpg/2.5 blk/1.5 stl/43.9% FG/78.4% FT
Thabo Sefolosha: 9.4 ppg/6.2 rpg/1.7 stl/1.5 blk/43.9% FG/83.3% FT

vs

J.J. Hickson: 13.6 ppg/8.4 rpg/1.8 blk/0.7 stl/53.6% FG/62.7% FT
Anderson Varejao: 11.3 ppg/9.1 rpg/1.0 blk/1.0 stl/53.1% FG/62.9% FT

Essentially, Hickson and Thomas contribute the same(statwise) except Hickson is cheaper and shoots a better percentage from the field. Now, Thomas does provide a little more in the defense department, and is without a doubt a better weak side shot blocker, but Hickson is bigger, and may be a better man-to-man defender than Thomas within a year. I'd rather have Thomas, but it isn't a landslide.

Varejao and Sefolosha is basically a wash as well. Sefolosha is a good wing defender who can't score. Varejao is a good post defender who can't score. Both are above adequate rebounders for their position.

Take a look at the more in depth numbers like True Shooting%, Rebound Rate, Turnover %, and Hickson leads Thomas in all those categories. Varejao has far superior numbers to Sefolosha in those numbers as well.

My point is this. The Suns would save an extra 10 million or so by trading with the Cavs and they pick up Hickson instead of Thomas, who gives them eerily similar production at a cheaper rate. 

If a draft pick is included, well, the Bulls will probably pick somewhere between 10-16, while the Cavs will be picking somewhere between 28-30, so I think whether or not we land Stoudemire or Cleveland does depends largely on if a draft pick is included. But 10 million extra off the books will be hard for that cheapskate Sarver to pass up.


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## NewAgeBaller (Jan 8, 2007)

I'd take Cleveland's package too, though I don't see either as a big enough gain to trade Amare..


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

That Cleveland package sucks vs ours. Tyrus trumps the hell out of all of them.


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

If Phoenix is looking to dump salaries, we could make the package bigger. 

Stoudamire
Richardson

for 

Hughes
Gooden
Thomas
Gordon
Sefo
1st rounder

They are getting young players and salary relieve. 

Bulls

Noah
Stoudamire
Deng
Richardson
Rose

with Nocioni, Hinrich, and Hunter on the bench. I would take this team.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

PD said:


> If Phoenix is looking to dump salaries, we could make the package bigger.
> 
> Stoudamire
> Richardson
> ...


I could definitely live with that team, but it would only have a couple guys I actually LIKE on it. (Kirk, Rose, Stoudamire)


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Man, can't wait till something gets done.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/

Also hearing Monday or sooner an Amare to Bulls trade will be announced possibly involving Dudley and Amundson with Drew Gooden and Tyrus Thomas coming back along with another player.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Figures. In order to get a good player, we have to give up one of our 2 good young ones I would hope to build with.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Bulls and Suns discussions heating up

http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/13599036?source=rss_blogs_NBA


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

Kerr wanting to help his favorite team out! Thanks Stevie!


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## Smooth Lotion (Jan 7, 2005)

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2009/2/15/760090/porter-out-gentry-replaces

"Also hearing Monday or sooner an Amare to Bulls trade will be announced possibly involving Dudley and Amundson with Drew Gooden and Tyrus Thomas coming back along with another player."


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

But this is a major issue, now that he's in Chicago.

He ain't getting that #1 jersey. So...what now?


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/57271/20090216/bulls_turning_to_kaman_and_camby/



> The Bulls continue their pursuit of Amare Stoudemire, but two league executives said Sunday it appears less likely Stoudemire will become a Bull, if he is traded at all.
> 
> According to NBA sources, they also are monitoring the Clippers' situation to see if Chris Kaman or Marcus Camby can be pried loose.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

Not so fast

edit: NM I was beaten to it post above me...


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

So, in a Kaman trade, who goes? Noah? Tyrus and Kaman would be a great post tandem (by the standards we're used to in Chicago especially).


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

I've been toying around with a trade checker, and to get Kaman, here are some trades that would work:

Gordon, Sef/Noah and Ruffin for Kaman.
Nocioni for Kaman.
Deng and Gooden for Kaman, Davis and Hart. 

I would prefer trade #3, but it's harder to pull off due to Deng being BYC. Gordon is the same boat, plus idk if they'd want him due to having their own Gordon already....same can be said for Deng and Thornton though I guess. I don't know that much about the Clips and their needs, as I almost never watch them, so I don't know their needs or what they'd be looking for. I wouldn't trade Tyrus for Kaman either, so that aspect is out as far as I'm concerned.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Actually, the best trade, is right here:

Noah, Sefolosha and Gooden, straight up for Kaman. 

OR

Noah and Hughes for Kaman, Ricky Davis and Novak. (It was Ricky and not Baron in the prior trade involving a Davis too) Ricky and Novak would both be expiring, so wouldn't have a malcontent like Hughes requesting to be deactivated if he didn't get any playing time.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

DaBabyBullz said:


> http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/57271/20090216/bulls_turning_to_kaman_and_camby/


I wouldn't believe this story. KC Johnson sucks.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Smooth Lotion said:


> http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2009/2/15/760090/porter-out-gentry-replaces
> 
> "Also hearing Monday or sooner an Amare to Bulls trade will be announced possibly involving Dudley and Amundson with Drew Gooden and Tyrus Thomas coming back along with another player."


I believe that they reported that Porter's job was on the line 6 days ago.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

"The windmill dunk would be a great basket to put the exclamation mark on my career here"-Amar'e Stoudemire


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=518336



> Bulls called 'favorite' to land Suns' Stoudemire
> 
> Posted: February 16, 2009
> *Sporting News staff reports*
> ...


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## Smithian (Apr 3, 2006)

Wow. If you get rid of Noah, that is a great trade for you all. You wouldn't be a championship contender just yet, but you'd have a great foundation.


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

We were also the favorites for Gasol and Kobe too. I'll wait this one out til the trade deadline yet again!!


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

Btw, Hughes + Thabo for Raja Bell and Diaw works under the CBA. We just need to trade Vinny for Mike D'Antoni and we're good to go.

DRose/Raja/Deng/Amare/Diaw
Hinrich/Noch/Gray


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

superdave said:


> Btw, Hughes + Thabo for Raja Bell and Diaw works under the CBA. We just need to trade Vinny for Mike D'Antoni and we're good to go.
> 
> DRose/Raja/Deng/Amare/Diaw
> Hinrich/Noch/Gray


Why would the bobcats get rid of Diaw and Bell for Hughes?


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

They won't...

:sarcasm:


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

...and according Mark Stein, the Suns *aren't* going to trade Shaq or Amar'e...

:sarcasm:


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## DNKO (Dec 23, 2008)

Oh well...like annual December rant about "will _______ (team) beat the 70W, or the Bulls" bullish, this is, apparently, same thing.

Buzz. But, I can't like, I was hooked. Oh well. Tyrus is good too.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Man, I'm torn as to whether or not I want to do the trade. I love me some Tyrus, but I haven't been quiet about liking Amare either. Tyrus younger, healthier. Amare better, but older, too expensive and injury issues. Giving up Gooden is no biggie. Losing a 1st would hurt, since we need to get a SG or C with it. Losing Noah = no loss whatsoever. Addition by subtraction in the long run most likely....same thing with the Swiss Miss.


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

DaBabyBullz said:


> Actually, the best trade, is right here:
> 
> Noah, Sefolosha and Gooden, straight up for Kaman.
> 
> ...


lets not throw garbage at the clippers just because they're... the clippers. 

Any deal involving Kaman would probably start with Deng and thats just scratching the surface of being fair in terms of value. big > small


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

DANNY said:


> lets not throw garbage at the clippers just because they're... the clippers.
> 
> Any deal involving Kaman would probably start with Deng and thats just scratching the surface of being fair in terms of value. big > small


If you're going to "start" with Deng and only have scratched the surface... I have to ask what exact package you think they'd get for Kaman from the Bulls... I like Chris Kaman but we're not talking about prime-Shaq here...


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

DANNY said:


> lets not throw garbage at the clippers just because they're... the clippers.
> 
> Any deal involving Kaman would probably start with *Deng* and thats just scratching the surface of being fair in terms of value. big > small


I thought you said not to throw garbage at the Clips just because they're the Clips? Then you mention pure garbage as the primary guy lol. I'd gladly include Deng in that trade. Good riddance.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

BTW DANNY, all 3 of those contracts are pretty short, and it's a financial deal moreso than anything else for the Clips. That's why it's garbage. It's some young "talent" along with an expiring.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> I thought you said not to throw garbage at the Clips just because they're the Clips? Then you mention pure garbage as the primary guy lol. I'd gladly include Deng in that trade. Good riddance.


So now Luol Deng is pure garbage... I'm assuming you don't care if anyone takes you seriously...


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Dornado said:


> So now Luol Deng is pure garbage... I'm assuming you don't care if anyone takes you seriously...


It's called sarcasm. And yes I would gladly trade Deng for Kaman. And yes, I view Deng as a below average SF. And yes, he's pretty much garbage. He brings pretty much nothing to the team that your normal run of the mill NBA player doesn't. #7 overall pick? What a joke.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> It's called sarcasm. And yes I would gladly trade Deng for Kaman. And yes, I view Deng as a below average SF. And yes, he's pretty much garbage. He brings pretty much nothing to the team that your normal run of the mill NBA player doesn't. #7 overall pick? What a joke.


Deng as the #7 pick has greatly outperformed Tyrus Thomas the #2 pick for the majority of his career, I dont like Deng either but I dont know how you can slurp one and blast the other.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Tyrus was #4 for starters. And I don't "slurp" any dudes. Tyrus was a known project, and has made impact plays from game 1. He's just inconsistent. Deng has never done anything other than shoot midrange jumpers, and make the occassional cut to the unguarded basket. I can count on one hand the # of impact plays he's made in his entire career. Deng also got minutes right away, due to the Bulls sucking. Tyrus was stuck on the bench due to the retard of a coach playing old vets instead, and being a tyrant with the bigs. Apples to oranges.


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## Merk (May 24, 2006)

DANNY said:


> lets not throw garbage at the clippers just because they're... the clippers.
> 
> Any deal involving Kaman would probably start with Deng and thats just scratching the surface of being fair in terms of value. big > small


hahaha....your joking right?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> Tyrus was #4 for starters. And I don't "slurp" any dudes. Tyrus was a known project, and has made impact plays from game 1. He's just inconsistent. Deng has never done anything other than shoot midrange jumpers, and make the occassional cut to the unguarded basket. I can count on one hand the # of impact plays he's made in his entire career. Deng also got minutes right away, due to the Bulls sucking. Tyrus was stuck on the bench due to the retard of a coach playing old vets instead, and being a tyrant with the bigs. Apples to oranges.


Lets not get into the whole was he the #2 or 4 pick cause the Bulls had the #2 pick and chose to have Thomas instead of Aldridge. 

Impact plays? Like what, continuously coming off his man for a help defense block? Garbage put backs and getting the majority of his points from the ft line? 

That same retard coach got everyone on this team playing at career highs. 

Tyrus Thomas is a below average man defender who has no legit offensive skill set that will make you ever think that Thomas will be a consistent offensive factor from now on.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

That is a retarded argument there bizkit. That's like saying the Bulls had the 20th pick, and traded up to #10, so the guy at #10 should be valued as a #20 pick. Same thing. 

As per the rest of your ridiculous argument, the mere fact that Tyrus is there, and able to block those shots stops a lot of drives and alters shots he doesn't block. Last time I checked, drawing fouls was a very good thing, and something he does VERY well. Yeah that retard coach really got those post players coached up didn't he? Yeah, Curry, Chandler both regressed under Skiles. Noah and Tyrus didn't do too well. Benedict Wallace sucked arse. The guards and SF played well under Skiles, but lets not try to twist the facts or lie about the impact he had on the post players. He was an absolutely pathetic excuse of a coach when it came to the bigs, and that's why I wanted and an glad he's gone. Problem is, Vinnie is even worse if possible. 

And what exactly is this amazing offensive skill set the worthless Dookie has? He can't dribble. He can't shoot the 3. He can't finish at the rim, and doesn't even try half the time since he's such a sissy. So, his "skill set" is getting the ball when open for a mid-range jumper, that he hasn't been hitting the last 2 years. Yeah, what a stud. His big contract will negatively impact this roster for the duration, unless he's dumped for peanuts.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> That is a retarded argument there bizkit. That's like saying the Bulls had the 20th pick, and traded up to #10, so the guy at #10 should be valued as a #20 pick. Same thing.


The Bulls traded away the #2 pick in Aldridge for Thomas so in my world Thomas is the #2 pick, either way hes still been outperformed by Loul Deng who was a lower drafted player.



> As per the rest of your ridiculous argument, the mere fact that Tyrus is there, and able to block those shots stops a lot of drives and alters shots he doesn't block. Last time I checked, drawing fouls was a very good thing, and something he does VERY well. Yeah that retard coach really got those post players coached up didn't he? Yeah, Curry, Chandler both regressed under Skiles. Noah and Tyrus didn't do too well. Benedict Wallace sucked arse. The guards and SF played well under Skiles, but lets not try to twist the facts or lie about the impact he had on the post players. He was an absolutely pathetic excuse of a coach when it came to the bigs, and that's why I wanted and an glad he's gone. Problem is, Vinnie is even worse if possible.


Really? so why did Thomas and Noah suck last year without Skiles? Why did Tyrus and Noah suck for the majority of this season untill they hit a hot 3-4 weeks? 

You obviously have no idea what your talking about, Eddy Curry's last year with Skiles was arguably his best year with the Bulls! HE was traded after his year with Skiles and had 1 great season then he gained 400 pounds and is flirting with being out of the league!

Tyson Chandler is benefiting from playing next to one of the greatest PG's of all time and hes still not blowing anyone away, 8 points 8 rebounds this year doesn't make me say DAMN YOU SKILES.



> And what exactly is this amazing offensive skill set the worthless Dookie has? He can't dribble. He can't shoot the 3. He can't finish at the rim, and doesn't even try half the time since he's such a sissy. So, his "skill set" is getting the ball when open for a mid-range jumper, that he hasn't been hitting the last 2 years. Yeah, what a stud. His big contract will negatively impact this roster for the duration, unless he's dumped for peanuts.


I agree with your assessment of Deng but hes still outproduced your boy Thomas, its just a fact.


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## DANNY (Aug 9, 2005)

Dornado said:


> If you're going to "start" with Deng and only have scratched the surface... I have to ask what exact package you think they'd get for Kaman from the Bulls... I like Chris Kaman but we're not talking about prime-Shaq here...


yes you're right, kaman is no prim shaq. i understand everyones entitle to their opinion, and it just happens to be that i value bigs more than swingmen. there's very few players on the bulls that appeals to dumbleavy brand of basketball. i think deng and hinrich are good fit and the clippers would be willing to deal kaman for those two IMO.

let me know what you think.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=affj6b



DaBabyBullz said:


> I thought you said not to throw garbage at the Clips just because they're the Clips? Then you mention pure garbage as the primary guy lol. I'd gladly include Deng in that trade. Good riddance.


deng is garbage? I gotta diagree with you on this one. just because he's not performing up to the level he did 2 years ago does not make him garbage. hes relatively young plus carries a reasonable contract. instead of putting all the blame on deng perhaps it would wise to atless question the lack of post presence or perhaps mr.del *****'s inability to utilize deng to his potential. i refuse to believe that deng's skill have deteriorated so quickly at an early age.



DaBabyBullz said:


> BTW DANNY, all 3 of those contracts are pretty short, and it's a financial deal moreso than anything else for the Clips. That's why it's garbage. It's some young "talent" along with an expiring.


yes you're correct. that deal would give the clippers financial flexibility. However, the clippers have let others know that financial dump is not what they're looking for. if that was the case they would accepted the wally for camby deal. but who knows maybe it's just a smoke screen.


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