# Celtics offer Jasikevicius multi-year contract



## deannahum (Aug 7, 2003)

http://www.one.co.il/cat/articles/article.aspx?id=64093&bz=4 (hebrew)

According to Israeli sources, the Celtics have offerd a multi-year contract to former Maryland and Maccabi Tel-Aviv and probably the best point guard in europe today, Lithuanian, Sarunas Jasikevicius !

Trust me he will easily be your starting pg


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## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

If Larry Bird says he's the best player in Europe, I'm curious as to why he's never been drafted by an NBA team. Surely if he's as good as advertised, I would imagine that NBA teams would have been trying to lure him to the NBA for years. 

Maybe they have in this just the first time I've heard of it.


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## Greater Levitator (Dec 29, 2004)

Very good move by the Celtics' Front office.

I wish Houston would pursue him.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

I know he's a good three-point shooter, but how is his defense? Can he lead a fast-break team or is he best suited for a half-court team?


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Premier said:


> I know he's a good three-point shooter, but how is his defense? Can he lead a fast-break team or is he best suited for a half-court team?


That would be a upgrade on you know who


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

deannahum said:


> Trust me he will easily be your starting pg


That's not really saying that much, considering the competition...


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Lanteri said:


> That's not really saying that much, considering the competition...


Statistically, Marcus Banks was better than his opponent over the course of last season.


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## patrick_wandalowski (Aug 5, 2003)

ENOUGH already. 

we get it! 

you love marcus banks.


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

patrick_wandalowski said:


> ENOUGH already.
> 
> we get it!
> 
> you love marcus banks.


 :rofl: 

Rep points for Patrick!


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

patrick_wandalowski said:


> ENOUGH already.
> 
> we get it!
> 
> you love marcus banks.


I do not "love" Marcus Banks. I think he's a good player and I enjoy his game.

If others, who are in the opposition of Banks, cannot form a reasonable argument that proves he is not qualified as the starter for the Celtics, so be it, although it makes _them_ look bad.


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## deannahum (Aug 7, 2003)

Saras will remind you a lot of Steve Nash on the offensive end... he is a better shooter than Nash but yet slower... he has unbelievable court vision and he is and excellent passer... on defence he can do some good team D but on the one-on-one quick guards will smoke him...

bottom line this guy is a freak, one of the best pg's ive seen in years.. e may be 29 but this guy is a legend in europe and he is a true winner !

Good luck to Saras im so exited looking forward to see him compete on NBA level


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## theBirdman (Jun 20, 2003)

I agree with, deannahum...

And another thing. He is a great, great guy off the court! Everybody would love him in Boston...


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

Premier said:


> I do not "love" Marcus Banks. I think he's a good player and I enjoy his game.
> 
> If others, who are in the opposition of Banks, cannot form a reasonable argument that proves he is not qualified as the starter for the Celtics, so be it, although it makes _them_ look bad.


Can't form a reasonable argument? 

The guy is a horrible passer and he has no offensive consistency whatsoever. He's nothing more than a pressure defender. 

Now you'll come in and argue that oh Marcus doesn't get enough touches to get assists, blah blah blah. What you fail to notice is that Marcus doesn't get assists, even when he does get playing time. Let's use the criteria of playing 20+ minutes a game and check out his assist totals. Marcus played 17 games in which he had 20+ minutes, and averaged a whopping 2.9 assists in those games. Double that number given starter minutes and its still subpar for a point guard. I don't know why you can't see that Marcus is not a good passer.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

I don't know if anyone has noticed this, but there is no good argument for West, just ones against Banks.

I'd be all for this guy. Anything to put Delonte West at shooting guard.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Lanteri said:


> Can't form a reasonable argument?
> 
> The guy is a horrible passer and he has no offensive consistency whatsoever. He's nothing more than a pressure defender.
> 
> Now you'll come in and argue that oh Marcus doesn't get enough touches to get assists, blah blah blah. What you fail to notice is that Marcus doesn't get assists, even when he does get playing time. Let's use the criteria of playing 20+ minutes a game and check out his assist totals. Marcus played 17 games in which he had 20+ minutes, and averaged a whopping 2.9 assists in those games. Double that number given starter minutes and its still subpar for a point guard. I don't know why you can't see that Marcus is not a good passer.


Well, assists are determined by a team's ability to make a shot. DK summarized it very nicely, concluding that assists cannot be used in an individual argument. I'll bear with you, though (even disregarding that Banks _did not_ get enough touches at the point guard spot). I'll use the assist/bad pass statistic as it seems like the best statistic determining passing ability using assists. 

Banks: 5.2 assists / bad pass
Jamal Tinsley: 3.2 assists / bad pass
Steve Nash: 4.8 assists / bad pass
Jason Kidd: 4.7 assists / bad pass
Andre Miller: 4.5 assists/ bad pass


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

See, Marcus Banks is pretty much the greatest point guard ever.


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## lempbizkit (Dec 25, 2003)

Premier said:


> Statistically, Marcus Banks was better than his opponent over the course of last season.


Stats are all well and good, but seeing the on-court performance is a far better indicator, and it has appeared to me that West will be a better player than Banks. I know the love for Banks is all over this site but I don't get it. You can prove anything with enough statistics.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

lempbizkit said:


> and it has appeared to me that West will be a better player than Banks.



Judging from his ability to sneak in and get a rebound? Or shoot a wide open shot?

Which of these (only) 2 positive things about Delonte makes you say he'll be the better play?


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

agoo101284 said:


> See, Marcus Banks is pretty much the greatest point guard ever.


Well, even I'll admit that those statistics are a little skewed as Marcus hasn't played long enough to use those statistics properly.


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## patrick_wandalowski (Aug 5, 2003)

its been 2 years and a decent amount of playing time, so i guess people see more flaws in Banks' game. right now delonte is still in good graces. 

but if it were so clear cut, wouldn't the celtics know the answer?

i hope the battle plays out, and no one else is signed. otherwise, we won't know.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

patrick_wandalowski said:


> its been 2 years and a decent amount of playing time, so i guess people see more flaws in Banks' game. right now delonte is still in good graces.
> 
> but if it were so clear cut, wouldn't the celtics know the answer?
> 
> i hope the battle plays out, and no one else is signed. otherwise, we won't know.


From a biased Delonte West satnd point, Delotne will win the starting job

Being that I am a average Celtics fans standpoint Delonte will win the job (IMO)


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

Premier said:


> *I do not "love" Marcus Banks.* I think he's a good player and I enjoy his game.
> 
> If others, who are in the opposition of Banks, cannot form a reasonable argument that proves he is not qualified as the starter for the Celtics, so be it, although it makes _them_ look bad.


So said the man who refused to part with him in a package with Vince Carter for T-Mac in the KVBL!

-Petey


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

Premier said:


> Well, assists are determined by a team's ability to make a shot. DK summarized it very nicely, concluding that assists cannot be used in an individual argument. I'll bear with you, though (even disregarding that Banks _did not_ get enough touches at the point guard spot). I'll use the assist/bad pass statistic as it seems like the best statistic determining passing ability using assists.
> 
> Banks: 5.2 assists / bad pass
> Jamal Tinsley: 3.2 assists / bad pass
> ...


Quick question, Kidd, Nash, Miller and Tinsley are starters. They are playing verus tougher talent then the 2nd unit. How many of Banks minutes come verus other teams 1st units last year?

-Petey


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

Petey said:


> Quick question, Kidd, Nash, Miller and Tinsley are starters. They are playing verus tougher talent then the 2nd unit. How many of Banks minutes come verus other teams 1st units last year?
> 
> -Petey


Not only that. Where the hell do you figure those numbers out from? Wouldn't it make more sense to just use assist to turnover ratio?

Steve Nash- 3.5
Jason Kidd- 3.2
Marcus Banks- 1.96
Jamaal Tinsley- 1.91

That shows the real Marcus Banks.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Lanteri said:


> Not only that. Where the hell do you figure those numbers out from? Wouldn't it make more sense to just use assist to turnover ratio?
> 
> Steve Nash- 3.5
> Jason Kidd- 3.2
> ...


Turnovers do not always focus on passing. I'm relying on the statistics provided by 82games.com. This shows that Banks needs to improve on his ball handling as that is one of the key reasons why his assist/turnover ratio isn't on par with the prominent (and superior) point guards in the league.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Petey said:


> Quick question, Kidd, Nash, Miller and Tinsley are starters. They are playing verus tougher talent then the 2nd unit. How many of Banks minutes come verus other teams 1st units last year?
> 
> -Petey


It depends. I'm going to say close to none, but the blame falls on Doc Rivers who played Gary Payton instead of the better talent in Banks. That is why any of Banks' statistics are skewed when comparing him to other point guards, which explains why Banks' statistics are better than superior point guards. If Banks starts, I can assure you that Kidd, Nash, Miller, and Tinsley will perform better but Banks would be an above-average point guard.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Petey said:


> So said the man who refused to part with him in a package with Vince Carter for T-Mac in the KVBL!
> 
> -Petey


Trade for T-Mac and not be able to resign two fifths of my starting lineup?

No thanks.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Lanteri said:


> Not only that. Where the hell do you figure those numbers out from? Wouldn't it make more sense to just use assist to turnover ratio?
> 
> Steve Nash- 3.5
> Jason Kidd- 3.2
> ...


The a/to number is largely worthless. What exactly does it prove?
Answer, pretty much nothing. The a/bad pass number at least tells us something about a player's passing.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

ehmunro said:


> The a/to number is largely worthless. What exactly does it prove?
> Answer, pretty much nothing. The a/bad pass number at least tells us something about a player's passing.



exactly...a turnover could count as a perfect pass thrown to mark blount and he let it slip through his hands out of bounds...we know how many times that happens


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Let's clarify on the value of each statistic.

Assist/bad pass judges a player's passing.
Total minutes/ballhandling turnovers judges a player's ballhandling (although total touches would've been a better variable, but that's not available).

Steals cancel out turnovers.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> exactly...a turnover could count as a perfect pass thrown to mark blount and he let it slip through his hands out of bounds...we know how many times that happens


More importantly, a turnover could classify as an offensive foul or a ballhandling turnover.


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

Premier said:


> Let's clarify on the value of each statistic.
> 
> Assist/bad pass judges a player's passing.
> Total minutes/ballhandling turnovers judges a player's ballhandling (although total touches would've been a better variable, but that's not available).
> ...


Whatever it takes for you to prop Banks up as a decent basketball player. You can make anyone into a good player by pulling some random stat out. Not even worth discussing with you. Numbers are numbers. When Banks actually shows ON THE COURT that he can be a starting PG in the league, rather than an inept, bad passing, out of control player, then we can discuss how he is a good PG. 

Right now he is average at best, and IMO below average in his ability to run an offense.


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## hirschmanz (Jun 3, 2005)

no matter what you think of banks, the celtics are sitting pretty at pg with banks (a defensive specialist) and sarunas (an offensive specialist) if they get him anyways.


If marcus banks was so good, why would the celtics be pursuing jasikevicius?


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

hirschmanz said:


> no matter what you think of banks, the celtics are sitting pretty at pg with banks (a defensive specialist) and sarunas (an offensive specialist) if they get him anyways.
> 
> 
> If marcus banks was so good, why would the celtics be pursuing jasikevicius?



Because Banks can't play 48 minutes, and we need another guy...going in with one Point Guard sucks.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Lanteri said:


> Whatever it takes for you to prop Banks up as a decent basketball player. You can make anyone into a good player by pulling some random stat out. Not even worth discussing with you. Numbers are numbers. When Banks actually shows ON THE COURT that he can be a starting PG in the league, rather than an inept, bad passing, out of control player, then we can discuss how he is a good PG.
> 
> Right now he is average at best, and IMO below average in his ability to run an offense.



Lant is right (first time), stats suck, you can find a stat for everything. But he's wrong (onemillionthreehundredthousandsevetyfifth time) arguing that Banks isn't our best PG. If he was bad, why did Danny leave him out of the Summer League team? Why not Delonte West? Simple, because Banks is at a more advanced stage.

Stats can be very misleading and you can throw them all out in the Banks vs West argument, because Banks has much more talent and is a much better point guard then West.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Well, statistics are the most important tool in an argument when used correctly. How do you determine if a guy is a better free throw shooter than another person? You look at their respective free throw percentages (and if necessary, adjust the stat until it is fair enough to make a good observation)


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## hirschmanz (Jun 3, 2005)

aquaitious said:


> Because Banks can't play 48 minutes, and we need another guy...going in with one Point Guard sucks.


banks won't need to play 48 minutes... if you sign jasikevicius, then you will have two capable point guards: one who is great offensively, one who is great defensively. Its a great asset for a team to have an offensive specialist and a defensive specialist at the same position.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

hirschmanz said:


> banks won't need to play 48 minutes... if you sign jasikevicius, then you will have two capable point guards: one who is great offensively, one who is great defensively. Its a great asset for a team to have an offensive specialist and a defensive specialist at the same position.


Yeah, he won't now, but you said



> If marcus banks was so good, why would the celtics be pursuing jasikevicius?


Because they need another point guard.


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## lempbizkit (Dec 25, 2003)

aquaitious said:


> Lant is right (first time), stats suck, you can find a stat for everything. But he's wrong (onemillionthreehundredthousandsevetyfifth time) arguing that Banks isn't our best PG. If he was bad, why did Danny leave him out of the Summer League team? Why not Delonte West? Simple, because Banks is at a more advanced stage.


I would hope that Banks is at a more advanced stage, he's a 4 year college player going into his 3rd pro season and West is a 3 year college player going into his second season, Banks better more advanced at this stage.

And you asked me before what have I seen from West that indicates he will be a better player than Banks. Here goes. While I am probably biased based on the fact that I watched Delonte at St. Joe's and liked him alot and I have never really liked Banks, strictly based on watching the on-court performance I like West's game better. Throw whatever stats out comparing them because he was injured for a good portion of the year. Banks is still out of control, makes a lot of mistakes and is almost useless if he misses a few shots in a row.

I'm not trying to say that West is going to be an all-star point guard I just think he will be better as a Celtic than Banks. You can't tell me that you've never watched a game and thought that a guy was just playing awful and then see the box score and realize he had a decent stats wise game. I just can't see Banks as a competent starting point guard anytime soon.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

All that tells us is why you hate Banks, nothing as to why you think West will make the transition to the point. Here are West's problems


 He's weak, thin, and not terribly athletic.
 He has a poor handle.
 He's terrible on the move. Seriously, watch how erratic his passing is when he's moving vs. when he's stationary.
 His decision making when pressured defensively is suspect. Again, watch his panic passing when teams bring defensive pressure. He throws the ball to the first guy he sees, and while it sometimes works out, it also breaks down the play if the open player is not in a position to get a good shot nor in good position to create a shot for someone else (for example, the passes to Blount & Lafrentz)
 No first step. At all. Combined with his handle this makes it next to impossible for him to break his man down off the dribble. If you can't do that you're not going to have much success creating shots, neither for yourself nor others.

Those are major problems for an aspiring point guard. He can improve on his decision making, but the physical limitations/coordination issues are major gaps in his game. He's best suited for the one in the triangle offense, but Boston isn't running the tri. They need a point with a handlle. Unfortunately the one point with a handle that they have has a suspect shot and isn't a great finisher. Banks is still ahead of West, and looks to have a brighter future at the point, but I still see both as backups at this point. Maybe they could get the Lakers to waive the lottery protection on the first for West?


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## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

ehmunro said:


> All that tells us is why you hate Banks, nothing as to why you think West will make the transition to the point. Here are West's problems
> 
> 
> He's weak, thin, and not terribly athletic.
> ...




voice of reason regarding West. My sentiments exactly


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