# Pippen??



## baler (Jul 16, 2003)

Ok, my thoughts on Scottie. He WAS one of the best defensive players to play the game of Basketball. While I was excited when we got him from Houston I will survive if he goes elsewhere. He is getting toward the last year or two of his career and this franchise really needs to start developing some new faces at the PG position. Plus, Scottie may have been a leader on the court, but he has done NOTHING to shape these idiots into roll models off the court. However, that may be impossible. I hope he goes to Chicago and finishes his career where he had the most success.

Agree/Disagree??


----------



## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

I think his mind is telling him he's got two more years and his body is saying become an assistant coach or GM.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Disagree, since I think Portland is worse next year without him and don't gain anything meaningful by letting him depart.


----------



## baler (Jul 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> Disagree, since I think Portland is worse next year without him and don't gain anything meaningful by letting him depart.


How about 19.7 million? I know we are over the cap but that's huge?!!


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

$19.7 million is what he made last season. He wouldn't make anything near that this coming season.

The very most I can see Pippen making this season is perhaps $6 million. I don't think I would brand that as terribly meaningful as long as Pippen is in the majority of games (which he has, easily, in every season of his career) and is teaching the younger players, especially Qyntel Woods.


----------



## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> The very most I can see Pippen making this season is perhaps $6 million. I don't think I would brand that as terribly meaningful


Pocket change for you and I, certainly, but for poor poverty-stricken Paul, it's lunch money.

barfo


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

We should take up a collection for Allen.


----------



## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> Disagree, since I think Portland is worse next year without him and don't gain anything meaningful by letting him depart.


Presuming there aren't any kick-arse deals about to go down that'd happen to bring in a strong PG, I completely agree with Minstrel on this. Pippen was easily the best thing going at the point for the Blazers last season and, even with his injuries, I think he'd still be a significant factor even as a "back-up" the way Greg Anthony was a few years back. That is, Pip might not have the wheels for a full season or even a full game right now but I'd be (relatively) comfortable with McInnis starting and getting 35 minutes a game with Pip there to help close things out when more defensive pressure and/or better decision making was needed.

There's some talk of DA at the point but I think he's a back-up there at best, despite his fairly strong assist numbers and, assuming Daniels leaves, then our only options would be McInnis, Damon, or one of the scrubbish walk-ons at the point. *If* we're serious about making a run this next year (which I think we still can be with a full year of Randolph getting more serious minutes) then let's have Pippen on board!


----------



## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

*Bingo,we have a winner..i mean loser*

"but he has done NOTHING to shape these idiots into roll models off the court"

I don't want players on our team who need babysitters..
Who on earth expected him to control OFF THE COURT PROBLEMS??
Good gosh,that isn't even a role of the coach!

IF YOU CAN'T GET YOUR CRAP TOGETHER OFF THE COURT,YOU
DARN WELL ARE GOING TO HAVE PROBLEMS ON THE COURT.

get them out of here.....puleaze !
Scottie has been a superb player and citizen here in Oregon.
Damn,I wish he could play here forever.
He has to be one of the sharpest players on the court with just
good basketball sense that has ever played the game.
He certainly should enjoy his own personal life off the court,not have to take care of babies..

He has real ones at home.




:no:


----------



## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

for those who are jumping on the bandwagon to see Pippen go to Chicago or elsewhere, I think you need to take a good hard look and see what we have at the PG spot now?

Only McInnis and Damon will be left, and it has been said over and over tha McInnis is on the trading block......

and Damon. well he is still 5'-10" tall... can be easily posted up and dribbles way too much and so on and so on...


No one person on this team can give you the championship experience or playoff level experience that Pippen can.... no one....

he would make a great coach and a great evaluator of talent and maybe even a GM some day.......

it amazes me people are so willing to just toss him aside... this team was nothing when he was out last year... and it blossomed when he took control of the PG spot.... remember Damon started out the year at PG, and was removed for a reason...only a freakish good performance by Damon saved out butts in the playoffs last year...


But on the other side of the coin... the smart teams are after Pippen... tells me a lot about Patterson and crew already... they have no respect for Pippen at all. Mo does, but not Patterson or Allen... its not all about $$$. He will only be about a $5-6 mill a year player for us... 


some have said... well we are not going to go farther in the playoffs. So why have Pippen?.. why not let the youngsters play more.. why pay Pippen that much....?


well... you know what... Chicago and Memphis will more than likely not go to the playoffs next year. But they do want Pippen. Imagine this.. Jerry West wnats Scottie Pippen.. mayeb you did nto hear me.. A team with Jerry West as manager wants Pippen on their team...and some are said to want him for office positions too. This tells me he is a good person to acquire both playing and in the office...


well.... go ahead... do not put Pippen on the team.... but do not come crying to me next spring when you get beat in the playoffs by a team with a dominating PG... or even an above average PG...


and Walace or Wells or DA or Shaq or McGrady or any other player in this league has the same potential for injury as Pippen does...


----------



## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

I would love to see Pippen back in a Blazers' uniform this next year. The offense ran so much better when he was playing, and he is still a good (if no longer great) defensive player.

And didn't Chicago's deadline pass? Didn't they supposedly want Pippen to commit today, or else they were going to try to sign Ira Newble?

If so, that just leaves Memphis as serious competition for Pippen's services. But they just signed Theron Smith today - giving them something like 17 players under contract. 18 if you include Michael Dickerson - although who knows if he'll ever play again....

I still like Portland's chances of re-signing Pippen - IF Chicago is serious about not pursuing him any longer.


----------



## trifecta (Oct 10, 2002)

I'd definitely like to see Pip back next season.

I know that he seems more injury prone but it's not as if he's useless when he's healthy!

Actually, I really like our chances against Dallas (healthy), Kings (sans Webber) and Spurs (healthy) to get to the NBA finals last season had Pip been healthy for the run. I know the Lakers are the hands down favorites this season (I agree) but when healthy, the Blazers weren't that bad last year.


----------



## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

We should let him go back to Chicago if he wants to.

Maby we could work some sort of Marshall for Pippen trade

Then trade Wells, Davis, McInnis, 2005 1st round pick for Brad Miller, Cro, Tinsley

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.......................


----------



## ilPadrino (May 23, 2003)

There were times when the offense looked good with Pippen running it last year, and plenty of times when it looked absolutely horrible as well. In my opinion, people reminisce a little more fondly than warranted about how great the Blazers looked when Pippen was on the floor. Pippen had a brief, although memorable, stretch of stellar play last season, which got the national media and Blazer fans excited about him, but unfortunately those games were played against lackluster opposition from the Eastern Conference. These teams had no respect for Pippen's game and put their smallest defenders on him, enabling Pippen to have big games by overwhelming midgets in the post. Pippen's level of play, and the team's level of play, dropped off dramatically after that when facing stiffer competition. The Blazers played some of their best basketball of the season when Pippen was playing, but let's not forget they also played some of their worst. Similarly, the Blazers played some of their worst basketball last season when Pippen was not playing, but also some of their best when he was watching from the sidelines...the playoff series against Dallas being one example.

Anyway, as I have said in previous threads, I think we would be a little better team (not as much as most people probably think) if we bring Pippen back next season, but I'm not sure it matters much since I don't feel we are legitimate title contenders. However, I don't have a problem with bringing him back, as long as it doesn't hinder the development of other players, or take a roster spot away from a young guy that might be able to contribute to a contending Blazers team in the future.


----------



## buckster (Mar 31, 2003)

*Attaboy Scottie!*

It is very amusing to see people try to minimize Pippen's contribution to the Blazers, and his potential for further contribution over the next 2 years.

I vote to bring him back - and it is a shame that there is even a debate over this. In an age when the Blazers are seeking to do three things at the same time - renew bonds with the fan-base through a cleaner set of players, rebuild the franchise, and still stay competitive - it is players like Scottie Pippen that we need. 

He is as aware as anyone else that his wondrous physical talent is on the wane. He is looking ahead to the days he stops playing in the NBA and would be most happy to groom the younger ones for the next step up. He is still the only one on the team with the stature to reprimand a teammate for whooping it up over another team's victory after the Blazers themselves had lost.

Scottie Pippen symbolizes all that I think is great about the Blazers - hopefully he gets to retire as a Blazer and that soon his no 33 hangs from the rafters of both the United Center in Chicago as well as the Rose Garden in Portland!

- Buck


----------



## antibody (Apr 4, 2003)

How is it amusing? Sure Pip would be nice to have within the Blazer organization but he is not worth what he was getting paid. Portland is now appearing to be watching money. I wouldn't mind having Pip on the team but a very low cost. I would rather give minutes to the younger guys.


----------



## buckster (Mar 31, 2003)

*Amusing...*

...because Scottie has been on record for a while saying he does not expect anything close to what he was paid the last year.

I think he has sounded very realistic about what he expects - and it should not be so difficult for the Blazers to get him to stay if they want to.

Of course, the Portland Trailblazers may not want to retain Scottie Pippen's services, preferring to focus on the positive influence that stars like Rasheed Wallace and Damon Stoudamire will have on Qyntel Woods and Travis Outlaw. 

Last year, he was the legitimate MVP of the Portland Trailblazers - he was the one factor that prevented almost through sheer willpower, the team's descent into an even deeper quagmire than they find themselves in.

Anyway, for Scottie Pippen fans like the Minstrel, bfan and I, it is satisfying to note that there are teams in the league who value what he brings (even at this late stage of his career). If it is not Portland, then a part of me would be very sad since it has been great having Pippen play for my hometown team. 

- Buck


----------



## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Add me to the list Buckster... I appreciate him, his talent and his basketball mind.... if this team does not, they are simply to stupid not to resign him.

I guess Chicago and Memphis are much smarter franchises.... his value at even $4.9-6 mill is valuable enough for those franchisees to hire him on


Scottie is reported this mornig to actually be interested in going to Memphis. Lets see if its true...

Nash wants to wait until later in the summer for a decision on Pippen.... well guess what... I doubt he will be available...


and please. there is no way Pippen is thinking he will get $19.7 mill again.... so why does this argument keep popping up.


----------



## antibody (Apr 4, 2003)

I didn't know about Scottie going on record with the money situation. I would think Portland would do what they can to get him if that was the case. He would be a good influence on the younger guys. I'm not so concerned with the off the court issues than basketball IQ type things. Guys are going to do what they are going to do regardless. Lumping Sheed and Damon is really not fair. Damon is a punk and hasn't learned much at all. He needs to be dumped somehow. I think Sheed gets more negative press than he deserves. He does more good things than bad things and he has improved on his T's. 

I disagree about Pip being the MVP of the Blazers. He was hurt for most of the year and didn't contribute as much as Bonzi and Sheed...not even close. There is no doubt that Pip would be good for the team. Yet, I'm not sold on absolutely keeping him. Portland is not going to go to the finals just because he is there. And they are not going to absolutely destruct without him. There is too much talent on the team and Cheeks seems to do a decent job...except with Damon and who really cares. It would be nice to have Pip but most Blazer fan's such as myself can go either way and feel good about it.


----------



## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

Several teams are looking at picking up Antonio Daniels... does that mean they're smarter than the Blazers too?

This team is not going to look the same in two months. If point guard is addressed in a sign or trade and the swing positions are anywhere near as deep as they are now, then I say no to Pippen.

If on the other hand there is still a hole at the point guard or some space in the swing rotation, sign him up for 5 million.

I imagine that Nash will have a pretty good idea of his plans for the summer in the next few days and will be able to come to a decision on Pippen...


----------



## buckster (Mar 31, 2003)

*TraderBob and AntiBody...*

..TraderBob - you have definitely been one to rise above the drivel and speak for Scottie Pippen's virtues. When I mentioned the Minstrel, bfan and others, I was definitely not trying to make an all-inclusive list. There are several fans on this forum who seem to recognize what the cognoscenti in the NBA realize - that Scottie Pippen has value albeit different (and less) from his glory days with the Bulls.

And AntiBody - some of the best pieces about Pippen in the recent past have been written by Kerry Egger on the Portland Tribune. There was a piece (written during the phase before last year's All-Star Break when Pippen could seemingly do no wrong) when Scottie actually said that he definitely did not expect, given the economic times and his physical limitations, to be repeating a $19.7 Mln contract and that he expected something much smaller. He also mentioned that even Kevin Garnett should be prepared for a pay cut when his current gargantuan contract runs out.

In the same article, Scottie said that it is a function of whether he is on a team as a role-player or as a center-piece - that if he is a role-player and the team is strong enough to carry him as a role player, he would be happy to accept role-player money.

- Buck


----------



## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Scottie offers only limited help to the young players. 

The Good: He understands how to run an offense and a defense. These are his best assets. When on the court (not injured) he makes the machine run smoothly.

The Bad: He repeatedly runs at the mouth to the media. Whether it is deserved or not, he bad-mouths the GM and the owner (bad example). He also has a reputation for coasting through the regular season (practice and games) and just waiting for the playoffs. And what about his pouting incidents when he doesn't get his way.

Don't get me wrong, I like Scottie and wouldn't mind seeing him back. But it would be to help win games, not help groom our young players. As much as I would love to see Qyn learn how to run a team on both ends of the court, I don't think Scottie does that much teaching. Like Mike, he just expects that others will watch and emulate. I really don't think Scottie is that good of an example for the Blazer's young talent.


----------



## buckster (Mar 31, 2003)

*Interesting Insight Reep*

I assume you do have connections at the Blazers or elsewhere in the NBA to be speaking that confidently about Scottie not being good for younger players.

I do not - and so am only relying on:

1. John Paxson, long-time team-mate, now GM of the Bulls wanting him back

2. Jerry West, best GM in NBA History, the logo, recognized judge of talent, long enough in the league to pick up this sort of obvious aberration in Scottie's mental make up - wanting Scottie to be a mentor for his young Grizzlies team as he tries to create a winning ethos in Memphis

3. Charles Oakley - team-mate, long-time rival, friend - speaking highly of Pippen

4. Phil Jackson (possibly a bias-ed viewpoint since Scottie views him as a father-figure) - writing (now this is key - it is not merely an oral word that could be misconstrued) in his book that Scottie's leadership style was "maternal" - he would take on a younger player, show them specific areas of improvement, monitor them through a game and bring them on - as opposed to Jordan's more "paternal" demanding style of leadership

Anyway, my opinions above are all second-hand at best Reep - I am sure you have more direct sources.

- Buck


----------



## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

Buckster, my sources are really just public information. I don't doubt that people want Scottie, but I think his (and MJ's) value as a mentor or as team management are overrated because of the number of rings he (they) have won. Look at the mess MJ left in Washington. I like Scottie as a player, and want him back to help run things, which is what I assume Paxon and West want also. But, I question his maturity to be a manager and leader of a young team. 

Off the court, do you believe that Pippen had any influence on the Blazer team? If so, then it didn't seem to help much. He didn't seem to inspire Rasheed to work out or take over games. Same goes with Wells. I would invite anyone to give examples of where Scotty showed real leadership off the court for this team in the last year.

I just think his value is highest when he is on the court. But, he doesn't seem to be able to stay on the court that much because of his knees. So, if Scotty can't be on the court that much, does he really have that much to offer the team? Or would they be better served giving time to Qyn? I would like to see Scotty as an assistant coach. I wish they would revive the old coach/player position, it my be perfect for Pippen.


----------



## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

Pip was brought to Portland to be a leader and give this team and edge to get over the hump in the playoffs. He was to mold Sheed, Damon and Bonzi and show them how to win with all his experience on a mental level. The truth is Pip is the best we've had, but not the best this team can be. Pip has not gotten this team over the hump and his teamates are still acting like fools. 

Pip is a streaky shooter at best now and has knees that are very banged up. Another health risk for sure! No longer should he be starting, a role player fine, but will he be able to handle that? Think again! If Pip wants to go to the Grizzle or Bulls or even Lakers, fine! 38 year old legs are still 38 year old legs. Pip is a legend, but legends need to know when to ride into the sunset. Pips time is now! Watching him get smoked all year by younger players is not fun see. It's like Ali getting beaten on for pride sake.


----------



## antibody (Apr 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Reep</b>!
> Off the court, do you believe that Pippen had any influence on the Blazer team? If so, then it didn't seem to help much. He didn't seem to inspire Rasheed to work out or take over games. Same goes with Wells. I would invite anyone to give examples of where Scotty showed real leadership off the court for this team in the last year.


I couldn't agree more Reep. If Scottie's influence was as good as people seem to think, Portland would be better off right now. I honestly thought he would have taken more of a leadership role with the team. His on the court IQ really coudn't be replaced. I have a take it or leave it kind of attitude for his off court leadership.


----------



## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

I think if they do not resign Pippen, they are making either of 2 statements.

1) They think their window of opportunity for a title run is over and they are going to rebuild with younger players.

or 

2) They are more concerned about money than they are about taking another shot at winning a title.


After last years resurrection against Dallas... I do not think they are that far off. So bring back Scottie and try again.. this time with more younger slightly more experienced players


----------



## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

Guys is just like DA, if Pip is hurt or nursing an injury what good is he?


----------



## buckster (Mar 31, 2003)

*Terrible...*

...you know you are wrong about this.

No knock on DA but even in the games that both played, the overall contribution - on offense and defense - from Scottie Pippen was always evident.

DA might still go on to become a great star - but given his unfortunate history of injuries we may never know.

There is no need to diss Pippen if you do not want him re-signed. Trader Bob has said it perfectly - if you are re-building, or out to conserve that last dollar, then you do not re-sign Scottie Pippen.

If you believe that the Blazers should stay competitive, and that there is young talent that can be nurtured, then you get Pippen back for 2 years.

- Buck


----------



## antibody (Apr 4, 2003)

Trader Bob is gone...what he says is a moot point. Portland can and will still be competitive with or without Pippen. The state of the franchise doesn't fall back on what they do with Pip. The fact of the matter is that Pip and DA were hurt throughout the year and it's hard to imagine anything different this year.


----------



## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

*ok,here is the quote*

" disagree about Pip being the MVP of the Blazers. He was hurt for most of the year and didn't contribute as much as Bonzi and Sheed...not even close. "

Sheed was MORE responsible for Portland's success?:laugh: 
Bonzi was MORE responsible for Portland's sucess?:laugh: 

You could throw those two in a pot,melt them down and form
one player,and you still couldn't make even one Scottie 

Rasheed Wallace and Bonzi Wells are so far removed from
being MVP'S, it is laughable.
Scottie Pippen has been the best brain/player/citizen/defensive/
leader/balls to say something/etc...
THAT THIS TEAM HAS EVER HAD IN IT'S ENTIRE EXISTANCE.

A gimpy Pippen is still my vote for the MVP.

You do remember how Portland looked like a million bucks
without SHEED??
You do remember how bad Portland looked once Pip went down
for the count??


----------



## antibody (Apr 4, 2003)

You are living in a fantasy world then JJ. Did you watch any Blazer games last year? I have to admit that the Blazer offense did appear to flow better with Pip in the game. Yet, you take Sheed and Bonzi out and the offense goes from average at best to just plain poor. Nobody on the team wants to step up and take a shot. Sheed and Bonzi are the best players on the team period. Pip's contribution to the team fall far short of them. 

And to say Pip is the best brain/leader/player/citizen/etc. the Blazers have ever had is absolutely a JOKE!!! Have you ever heard of a player named Clyde Drexler. And the balls to say something can be good and bad. Pip's comments to the media about ownership/management were in poor taste. You keep that in house and not leave it out like dirty laundry. And that is the sign of a leader?


----------



## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

Let him go home to Chicago, but in a sign and trade..

Pippen, 2004 2nd round pick for Marshall. I posted this on the Chicago board, and most of their fans liked it. Marshall has only 2 years on his contract, so it woould not tarnish our 04/05 cap room plan.


----------



## buckster (Mar 31, 2003)

*AntiB...*

....on the Blazers MVP for the last season.

Statistics are seldom the best measure for team players like Pippen since many of the things they do (blocking out on rebounds, team defense, deflections, mis-directions, initiation of the key entry pass, etc) are not tracked statitically.

Yet for the last season, there is one amazing fact-oid.

The Blazers survived the absence (for stupidity, violation of law, injury, whatever) of Rasheed Wallace, Bonzi Wells, Damon Stoudamire, Derek Anderson, Dale Davis, Zach Randolph, Ruben Patterson, et al - they collapsed late in the season when the seasoned veteran carrying the extra load to keep the team competitive was injured.

Let's not live in denial. There is no doubt that Scottie Pippen is a shadow of what he was in his Chicago days. There is no doubt that he cannot represent the long-term for this franchise.

Yet there is no denying his value to the team last year. He will provide immense value to some team over the next two years - I as a Blazers fan hope it is the Blazers!

If it is to be someone else, then so be it. There will be two teams whose progress I will watch closely for the next couple of years, then.

- Buck


----------



## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

*Drexler?*

That guy never had anything to say.
He sure wasn't a leader.
I remember guys saying he never even went to practice.
I also don't remember him being any great basketball mind.
Gifted???oh yeah ! Loved his game,but that's about it.

As a coach with his poor communication,he didn't last did he??


----------



## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

*well and ..*

"Yet, you take Sheed and Bonzi out and the offense goes from average at best to just plain poor."

And on many nights this is what happened with them BOTH in.

:laugh:


----------



## bfan1 (Mar 5, 2003)

*>>>*



> You do remember how Portland looked like a million bucks
> without SHEED??
> You do remember how bad Portland looked once Pip went down
> for the count??


:woot:


----------



## antibody (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: Drexler?*



> Originally posted by <b>jackiejackal</b>!
> That guy never had anything to say.
> He sure wasn't a leader.
> I remember guys saying he never even went to practice.
> ...


Drexler didn't have much to say for sure but being outspoken doesn't necessarily deem you as a leader in my book. Drexler led by example and hard work. He was a key ingredient in the title runs they had. I never heard about him missing practices. Not all former players are coaching material. You never saw Clyde ***** and moan about crap during the year and you never saw him refuse to go back into a game. He was the ultimate professional. 

I'm not discounting Pip's importance. I just value it on a lesser level than Sheed and Bonzi. They are important on both ends of the floor and the Blazers are in trouble without them.


----------



## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

*HE WAS ALWAYS CONSIDERED A*

Prima Donna and a whiner..
Hey,I am not saying I didn't like the guy AS A PLAYER.

But I never particularly liked his personna here in Portland.


----------



## Arizona Bay (Jan 3, 2003)

Hey, Pippen was hands down the MVP of the Blazers over the first half of last season. He was dominate, and contributed not only on the court, but his intangibles as well. 

With that said, it's clear that Scottie isn't physically capable of playing a whole season plus the playoffs. Considering this fact, I will lose no sleep if he isn't in Portland next year. I'd rather start, and more importantly, FINISH the season with one guy primarily running the PG. At least the team going into the playoffs is the same team that started the season....assuming Portland makes the playoffs without him. And even if they don't, big deal? So Pippen's departure will spare us yet ANOTHER first round loss? Hell, over the last 3 playoff appearances, our best first round performance was last season, and Damon was the one really running the show.

The Bulls, the Spurs or the Mavs can have him.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>antibody</b>!
> 
> I disagree about Pip being the MVP of the Blazers. He was hurt for most of the year


You should at least build your arguments on fact, not imagination. Pippen played all but the final two or three weeks of the season, so he played by far the majority of the season. In fact, he's *never* had a season in his career where he played in fewer than half his games (his closest call came with the Bulls, when he had major back surgery).

In fact, for Portland, he's averaged nearly 70 games a season. This myth that Pippen misses most of the season for the Blazers is wide-spread but not anywhere near the truth.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>antibody</b>!
> 
> And the balls to say something can be good and bad. Pip's comments to the media about ownership/management were in poor taste. You keep that in house and not leave it out like dirty laundry. And that is the sign of a leader?


Yes, perhaps it is. I recall many mentions on this board that when Pippen made such comments in the media, the team immediately went on a tear. It got to the point that when he said something, someone would say, "So, is this going to light a fire under them like when Scottie's blasted the team before?"

There's quiet leadership and stormy leadership. Pippen brings both. He's not a screamer on the court, he doesn't deal Jordanesque insults to his teammates when they screw up. His leadership on the court is quiet, it's head shakes, communication and example. Off the court, but still related to basketball, it's a stormy leadership. If he thinks the team is wrong, he says so. If he thinks the team is playing without passion or heart, he says so. And here's the key: His teammates don't consider him a jerk. From all comments, they respect him and consider him the leader.

*That's* leadership. Being able to call out your teammates for not doing their jobs and not being resented for it. It goes to show that there's plenty also going on in the locker room that we don't know about.

Of course, what we *do* hear from the locker room is only positive. Scottie's the hardest worker. Scottie doesn't tolerate taking losses lightly, snapping off the television when Wallace and Bonzi were laughing at it after a bad loss.

His leadership has been shown over and over. Even when hurt, wearing his dapper suits, he takes players aside during timeouts and counsels them on what they could / should do. That's picked up by cameras all the time.

Does he make a good babysitter, preventing *adults* from smoking bud or driving too fast? No. That's because he's not a babysitter. Neither Jordan or Pippen babysat Rodman, because it wasn't their job to do so. If Wallace and Stoudamire are going to go and get high, what's Pippen supposed to do to stop that? Have you ever attempted to tell an adult not to smoke on his own time or tell an adult not to do recreational drugs? Try it sometime, see how far you get. Adults do what they're going to do. Pippen's only responsibility was basketball-related leadership. In jobs, people respect authority. Off their jobs, workplace authority means jack to them.


----------



## Goldmember (May 24, 2003)

To be honest, Pip only looked like a stud during his contract year. The previous couple years he spent most of the season dogging it.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

*mis-read the post I was replying to*


----------



## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

great post minstrel.

blazer record when pip was in the line-up last season 41-23 = 64%
without pip 9-9 = 50%

50% doesn't make the playoffs in the western conference. not even close.

even though I don't think the blazers have a chance to be contenders next year, I'd like to "see" (not too much NBA television coverage here, just polar bears) pip in a blazer jersey next season. I don't think losing him would be a disaster, but I didn't like the way some people here were bashing him.


----------



## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

*minstrel*

well said !
:grinning:


----------



## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> I assume that's a joke or ironic comment on Wallace complaints, as Pippen hasn't *had* a contract year with the Blazers. His current expiring contract was done by the Bulls for the Rockets.


He hasn't? I thought the usual meaning of the term 'contract year' was the season prior to free agency. In which case this past year was a contract year for Pip. 

If it means the year after signing a contract, or something else, then I don't know what the heck I'm talking about and you should just ignore me.

barfo


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Well, okay, to be precise I should have said prior to this year. That's what I meant.

But I mis-read the comment I replied to...I thought he said Pippen dogged these last two years and prior to these two years he was playing up for a contract year.

My mistake.


----------



## ilPadrino (May 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>buckster</b>!
> 
> Scottie Pippen symbolizes all that I think is great about the Blazers - hopefully he gets to retire as a Blazer and that soon his no 33 hangs from the rafters of both the United Center in Chicago as well as the Rose Garden in Portland!


Hmmmm, I guess you are expecting Pippen to accomplish <b>a lot</b> during his next two seasons in Portland if you expect the Blazers to retire his number, considering what he has accomplished thus far in Portland isn't even <i>close</i> to enough to earn even the slightest amount of consideration. Maybe if he wins a ring in Portland some weak argument could be made to ignore his mediocre production and retire his number anyway, but there is currently no argument.



> Originally posted by <b>Arizona Bay</b>!
> 
> He was dominate, and contributed not only on the court, but his intangibles as well.


Dominant is certainly not a term that should be used to describe Pippen's play during the first half of last season, unless you use that term <i>far</i> more liberally than I do. The word "average" is much more appropriate since that is the type of player Pippen is now, even when healthy. This isn't his fault, all players will <i>eventually</i> become average at some point in time during their lives due to age, injuries, etc.



> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> I assume that's a joke or ironic comment on Wallace complaints, as Pippen hasn't *had* a contract year with the Blazers. His current expiring contract was done by the Bulls for the Rockets.


The term "contract year" refers to the last year of a player's contract. It has no real significance which team Pippen signed the original contract with. The fact of the matter is Pippen played a "contract year" last season in a Blazers' uniform. Not that I necessarily think that is what motivated Pippen to raise his level of play to average or anything.



> Originally posted by <b>el_Diablo</b>!
> 
> blazer record when pip was in the line-up last season 41-23 = 64%
> without pip 9-9 = 50%


It isn't surprising to see a team struggle when one of their starters is not able to play. Not only are you missing what that player contributes, but it forces the rotation to be mixed up, etc.

Perhaps if Pippen was not on the team at all last season, the Blazers would have had a slightly better than 9-9 record during those 18 games he missed since they would have been more accustomed to playing without him, instead of having to adjust to playing without him. Who knows, it is all speculation anyway, just like it is speculation to attribute those losses solely to the fact Pippen did not play in them.

Personally, I think the Blazers' tradition of late season swoons has more to do with the fact our schedule typically consists of tougher competition later in the year (more Western Conference heavy) compared to early in the year, when we typically go on a long Eastern Conference road swing, dominate those weaker teams and get everyone excited. My memory is a little foggy about whether or not that is exactly what happened last season, but I do know Pippen's better performances came against weak teams from the East that did not respect him, put their smallest players on him and made him try to beat them.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ilPadrino</b>!
> 
> The term "contract year" refers to the last year of a player's contract. It has no real significance which team Pippen signed the original contract with. The fact of the matter is Pippen played a "contract year" last season in a Blazers' uniform.


As I said, I mis-read the poster...I thought he said he had dogged the last few seasons and played like a stud before that during a contract year. There was no contract year for Pippen during his time with the Blazers until just now...but since I thought he meant earlier, I wasn't considering this completed season.


----------



## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>antibody</b>!
> Trader Bob is gone...what he says is a moot point.


I am right here Antibody.... that is who Buckster was commenting about....


----------



## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

You know what I want? Pip and DA to be healthy together for one whole playoff series and then we can talk salaries and extensions. To bad for us I don't think that will ever happen; so who gives a rip if Pip and DA both played 70 games a season if they are on ice when we need them most? 

Leadership is most needed in the playoffs and DA and Pip usually miss the buss or are nurseing and injury like Pip has done over that last two years.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Terrible</b>!
> 
> Leadership is most needed in the playoffs and DA and Pip usually miss the buss or are nurseing and injury like Pip has done over that last two years.


*sigh* Again, at least get the facts right. Pippen did not miss the playoffs season before last nor was he nursing injury. In fact, he had a great series. Tendex value about the same as Kobe's, in that series.

Nor the season before that.

Nor the season before that, his first with Portland.

Missing one playoff series in four years is "usually missing the bus"? Fascinating perspective. That's a new definition of "usually."


----------



## buckster (Mar 31, 2003)

*There Seems To Be Agreement!*

...that Scottie Pippen was critical to whatever little the Blazers achieved the last few seasons.

As our friend, the Minstrel, has clarified, and contrary to the perception of some on this forum, he has played over 80% of his games through this period. 

It is definitely true that his physical skills have waned over the past 16 odd years in the league. It is interesting to note that at the same time, his free throw shooting percentage has gone up - Scottie has become smarter about harnessing his diminishing skills for maximum return.

The Blazers are within their rights to not want him back. The fans on this forum who believe that he should not be re-signed but allowed to end his career elsewhere are fully within their rights to believe so. 

Finally, since John Nash has been posturing differently, I can only believe one of two things:

1. That he has either been told not to re-sign Scottie (and to avoid a public relations backlash by simply letting him sign first elsewhere rather than say no and then be pilloried by the majority of the Blazer faithful who showed up at the Rose Garden and showed their support for Scottie Pippen).

2. That he wants to have negotiating leverage - unfortunately it is slipping away rather than increasing with more and more suitors lining up for Scottie Pippen's services over the next couple of years and possibly longer!

Either way, I (and possibly I am on the minority on this forum along with the few I have mentioned before) believe that the Portland Trailblazers should re-sign Scottie Pippen for a 2-year deal worth between 11 and 12 million dollars. 

IF they do not re-sign Pippen, my belief is that Mo Cheeks will also be history soon - that Patterson and Nash want to fire him as well and get their own man to be the Head Coach.

- Buck


----------



## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

Minstrel would tell everyone on this board or any other that Pip had monster value useing a cane if you'd let him. Facts are Pips shot has gotten worse, he did miss a good chunk of games going into the playoffs last year, and even when he made the playoffs his timing was way off. 

He's old and slow now and he should retire or take a bench position much like Sabas and be used sparingly for leadership times in the playoffs.

Thinking that this guy is going to run this team for another year is crazy. His body will give out, and he's still getting smoked by half the leagues other players. 

Pip was a great player no doubt! WAS!


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Terrible</b>!
> Minstrel would tell everyone on this board or any other that Pip had monster value useing a cane if you'd let him.


That's a good way to cover up having your facts horribly wrong.



> Facts are Pips shot has gotten worse, he did miss a good chunk of games going into the playoffs last year, and even when he made the playoffs his timing was way off.


Well, as I said, he had about the same Tendex as Kobe, only Shaq and Wallace were above the two of them in that playoff series.

I know it's inconvenient to you when things don't fit your rants.



> Pip was a great player no doubt! WAS!


I've never said Pippen is a *great* player anymore. On the other hand, there's no point handing him criticisms he hasn't earned...like that he misses most of the season or he generally misses the playoffs or is generally hampered by injury in the playoffs. None of these are true.


----------



## Terrible (Jan 3, 2003)

Minstrel eveything you say is golden but my thoughts are "RANTS"? A little full of ourselves are we? All that singing and frolicking must have gone to your head. I know that you fancy yourself the P in Pip but give it a rest already! Our team needs to start going in a new direction and Pip will only bench some young guy learning the ropes. 

BTW- I never said he missed most of the season. Get your facts right! I said he missed the games we needed him most. You must be confusing me with another poster who also wants to see our team take a new direction.


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Terrible</b>!
> 
> Our team needs to start going in a new direction and Pip will only bench some young guy learning the ropes.


*nod* That young fella Damon Stoudamire. I hear he's quite the prospect. Hey, when he's older, do you think he may develop into Isiah Thomas?



> BTW- I never said he missed most of the season. Get your facts right!




I never said you did...I threw your myths in with another that's oft-repeated. It's quicker to address them all in one statement.



> I said he missed the games we needed him most.


You said he usually missed games or was nursing injury in the playoffs, yes. And you were wrong.


----------



## Peaceman (Jan 15, 2003)

I like Pippen a lot and I do feel is a stable influence on a very instable team. I do not want him on the team next year, unless you move some of the players who are unstable. If this team is going to stay mostly intact, which I do not support, I want them to figure out how to win on there own. Why keep someone with court IQ to help Sheed and Bonzi look better, when they could be exposed as the frauds they are. They don't care if the win or lose, and don't call each other out on losses. I don't blame Sheed for having a 17 million dollar contract, or not being a leader, but I do blame him for not caring about the team image or winning. How about prode in your job? Go back to smoking j's and playing sega and let Pippen go to a team who cares about winning.


----------



## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Having Pippen next year will be the diference of the 6th rather than the 8th seed.

If Portland Trades Rasheed, then IMO the team has signalled a change of direction. Unfortunately for Pip a 38 year old SF won't fit the goals of a team trying to get younger and trim salary.

Remember this team is trying to trim salary. Supposedly it lost $100mil last season Scottie, Daniels and Sabas leaving will change that by about 30%. I'm not sure the luxury tax was in affect but if it was a factor than they account for 60% of you're losses. (of course it is all hypothetical as it will be a new fiscal year).


----------



## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re: ok,here is the quote*



> Originally posted by <b>jackiejackal</b>!
> You do remember how Portland looked like a million bucks
> without SHEED??
> You do remember how bad Portland looked once Pip went down
> for the count??


Portland over the last few years has had a lot of finishers and rebounders, but have only had two pass first playmakers... Scottie and Sabas. If their best player, Wallace IMO, goes down, there are others who can duplicate some of his skills. Randolph is a tremendous talent to have as a backup. But their is a steep dropoff in talent behind Scottie at the QB position, which shows itself graphicly for all to see when he's been out. This may make him the team's MVP, but it's still Wallace in a landslide as to who is the team's best player. He's their horse, or as Scottie said, "The Franchise".

STOMP


----------

