# Walker-LaFrentz Trade, Good or Bad for Boston



## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

Was Boston's trading of Antoine and Tony Delk for Raef LaFrentz, Jiri Welsch and the expiring $6.6 million contract of injured Chris Mills plus a 2004 first round pick a good or bad move for the team?


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*My two cents*

SLAM DUNK, Danny Ainge.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*I'm surprised....*

Only 18 responses on this issue?


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## Charlotte_______ (May 18, 2003)

I voted good, good luck Celtics.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

Your alternatives in this poll are poorly phrased. Ainge knew exactly what he was doing: saving the new owners about 10 million dollars this year plus more in future years-- since they now do not have to worry about Antoine's contract extension.

In the process they diluted the product they will put on the floor. A week ago I would have predicted that once the C's jelled, they had enough talent to challenge the Nets. Now I think they are a .500 team, unless Welsch turns out to be a star or Banks suddenly gets it. Those things are possible, but against the odds.

The big winners in this deal are Antoine Walker-- who will have a chance at a ring this year-- and Mark Cuban. Basketball fans around the world will be focusing on the Mavs and their exciting style of play, and they will generate the kind of revenue (including gate receipts, local tv revenue, sales of trademarked items, etc.) that premier teams generate. Cuban did not become a billionaire by accident.

The Celtics, meanwhile, will be playing games with final scores of 80-75 and will be losing as much as they are winning. Except for the diehards like us, the majority of fans and sports media types will likely lose interest around midseason. LaFrenz will put up decent numbers, but so did Christian Laettner, and he has never been vaguely close to a championship.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*John, we can agree to disagree*

Our new additions of Banks, Jumaine Jones and Mike James were going to allow us to "gel" and beat a NJ team that totally dominated us and added ALONZO MOURNING?

No way in hell.

I think this makes us weaker, as you say, for at least the first couple months of the season. After that, I think we can even be a better team. And next year, we'll be WAY better. John, you are a fan from the old days. Have you gotten content with just making the playoffs? That's all we were able to do with the group we had. It's about the BANNERS. I think this gives us a MUCH BETTER chance of doing that. This season we weren't going to with Antoine Walker.


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## Big John (Sep 11, 2002)

As I stated in another post, it is wrong to assume they couldn't win with Walker. To win a championship they need a horse on the boards-- not a finesse player like LaFrenz-- and an effective point guard. That was true when they had Pierce and Walker together and it is still true now that Antoine is gone.

We heard the same crap from Pitino. The move will make us better long term blah blah blah. In fact, he was just scrambling to make up for his prior mistakes. If someone on the C's had half a brain we could have had a team featuring Eddie Jones, David Wesley, Rick Fox, Sam Cassell (they took Acie Earl instead in 1993), Theo Ratliff (they took EWill instead in 1995), Ben Wallace, Troy Murphy and Tony Parker (or Gilbert Arenas) to complement Antoine and Paul. 

IMHO if they add a couple of nice draft picks next Summer plus a decent free agent with their mid level exception, they may get back to where they were a week ago, basketball-wise.

This deal is about MONEY. It does not bring us closer to a championship unless Welsch turns out to be a star. They also need to develop Brandon Hunter, who is a great natural rebounder. In fact, he is a better rebounder than either Walker or LaFrenz. Yes, he is very raw, but so was Ben Wallace in 1997, when the Celtics could have signed him (he played for them in Summer league) but didn't. They are willing to let Banks stink up the floor so that he can learn, why not Hunter? Give the kid two 30-minute stints back to back and let's see what he can do.

At least they got rid of Delk. The Celtics were never going to win a championship with him playing significant minutes every night. The Mavs have the depth to use him properly-- play him when he's hot and sit him when he isn't.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*John*

Some of what you say makes sense. And we are making up for past mistakes. Chris Wallace would still be in charge if he hadn't traded for Vin Baker. And ownership has sucked. But those weren't Danny's mistakes.

Brandon Hunter was a steal. Kendrick Perkins is a horse, and might be ready to contribute as early as next year. Banks makes mistakes (as rookies have been known to do), but he is lightning in a bottle.

I like the deal. You don't. Go Celtics!


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## theBirdman (Jun 20, 2003)

I agree 100% with BJ! 

And of course we are not satisfied with just getting into the playoffs! I am willing to go to the lottery for 2-3 years if that means that we can build a championship team. But this deal doesnt help us in the long term! In the future we can count on our talanted rookies and not on a guy like Lafrentz! He is NOT the player who can take us closer to banner 17!


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## OG (Aug 12, 2003)

definately a good move


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## A.W.#8 (Sep 8, 2003)

*Awful Move*

Brutal Move. But they hated on Walker way too much to keep him. Go Mavs Go.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

In the thread on the nba board i said it is good for the future, but not now


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

I don't think this trade was good for the future, you don't get to the finals on the back of Lafrentz! As for Welsch he may stink it up he may be good we don't know yet but this was not about making us better. It was about getting rid of Walker at any cost. I was all for trading him if it brought us back the peices to get it done but that trade DID NOT do that!


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>wadecaroneddie</b>!
> In the thread on the nba board i said it is good for the future, but not now


Thats what I think too, kinda like what the Suns did....


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## bballer27 (Aug 21, 2003)

even though he dealed an allstar theres more time for new and improved vin baker


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## KBrownFan (Jul 6, 2003)

*Efficency.*

"I don't think this trade was good for the future, you don't get to the finals on the back of Lafrentz! As for Welsch he may stink it up he may be good we don't know yet but this was not about making us better. It was about getting rid of Walker at any cost. I was all for trading him if it brought us back the peices to get it done but that trade DID NOT do that!"

Your vastly underrating Raef LaFrentz..

He is an efficent scorer...incredibly efficent compared to Walker.

Walker might have more talent but he takes poor shots. But Raef is an okay rebounder and a great shot blocker - something Walker never was. Walker scored more - but to get his twenty points he took twenty shots. To get his 7 rebounds and 5 assists he played 41 minutes. Walker really didn't play very well for us the last couple of years.

Raef will help the Celtics. For all his abilities Walker was hurting the team with his stagnant offense and his bad shot selection and lousy scoring ability. 

He will do much better in Dallas - Walker wants to play for Dallas he asked Cuban to trade him out there. But Raef will help the Celtics, IMHO. Watch and see.

Pete


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## darkballa (Sep 19, 2003)

they should let vin baker step up. i mean... you guys kist your all-star forward and got ANOTHER soft center? this trade is bad and bad for the future. you guys needed a center buyt not lafrentz


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*I'm getting tired of saying this, but...*

Walker was GONE. He was going to leave, anyway. Forget about LaFrentz. Forget about Welsch. Forget even about the free agent cap space and the #1 pick. Walker was gone. 

Dallas will win a minimum of 60 this year, and I hope they knock out the Lakers. I hope Antoine has a great year. But we just might have improved for the short term, and definitely did for the long term.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: I'm getting tired of saying this, but...*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> Walker was GONE. He was going to leave, anyway. Forget about LaFrentz. Forget about Welsch. Forget even about the free agent cap space and the #1 pick. Walker was gone.
> 
> Dallas will win a minimum of 60 this year, and I hope they knock out the Lakers. I hope Antoine has a great year. But we just might have improved for the short term, and definitely did for the long term.


Agreed, but it might have been ever nicer if we left Walker's 14 Million and E 5.5 million expire at the end of this season...

You are definitly right we did improve in long term, short term I'm not so sure.

The deal still puzzles me (I never said it was a bad trade), but it did and still does puzzle me.
I'm not a big Reaf fan (IMO he's still somewhat a stiff) but at least it gives us a center until Kendrick and Banks develop. Two VERY important pieces to a championship, PG and C.

Playoffs or lottery its gonna be an interesting season. Maybe this team and coaches will realize they don't need to give the ball to Toine and Pierce and only let those two score.

Antoine Walker is a team play, just wasn't used the right way...anyway lets move on.


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## Slasher (Jul 11, 2003)

One of the stupidest trades I've seen in a while. What was stupider was the Vin Baker trade.. :dead:


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## DANO (Oct 21, 2003)

I like the move. While I like Walker in many ways, I just dont think he was a very good shooter. Also, I want to see Hunter and Brown get more minutes. I dont mind waiting a year or two for a good team. The last managment team really screwed us. Give Danny some time.:grinning:


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Aquatious*

Yes, we would have had some savings if Walker had left, a lot actually, but there was a chance no one would have paid him (unless he would have gone to Utah) and we would have been stuck with a disgruntled star for another year. 

This way, we get the Mills savings, plus LaFrentz makes a little less than Toine, and we get something that can help us now.

Another thing, if Vin can play well this year, it's a total win for Boston.

The team chemistry could be 100% better. Ainge talked about that, and that is one thing the fans have no idea about. O'Brien and Pierce seem to agree with this assesment.

Look at San Antonio and their chemistry. If it was all on "talent" alone, Dallas or Portland would win. Basketball is a team game.


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## Bad Bartons (Aug 23, 2002)

The trade makes sense financially so Ainge can build his type of team.

No disrespect to Walker but I feel that a weight has been lifted from my shoulders. Walker had alot of power in Boston with teammates, O'Brien, and some of the fans. He is not good enough to be the man on a team and have such power. Vets had a hard time with Walker's attitude and his control on the team. Pierce is saying that he will be more of a team player. If the Minnesota game is any indication of things to come then he is right. With the two man system on O gone I think there is a chance at greater ball movement.

I like the move especially in the long run. It puts alot of faith in Baker but so far I think that Vin may have a breakout year.

The trade makes Battie expendable. I would trade him. I like him and the way that his game has progressed but his injuries hurt the team. LaFrentz and Blount are very playable this season and I think that Perkins is the man in the middle of the future.


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## Jacres318 (Jun 8, 2003)

this is a really bad move! good cap move, so you don't have to worry about an extension, think again. Like taking on 6 years of a 7 year, 69 mil contract makes the situation better. 

Raef is a good shooter, but can't create his own shot, has no self esteem and takes time off on the defense side of the ball. He doesn't play in the paint, he can't penetrate. He can only shoot, and he's a little incosistent on his three's by the way. He's good, but do you know what mavs fans were hoping to get for him in trades? 

Charlie Ward and Kurt Thomas. Instead we got an all star and a great backup, ya really great move Ainge LMAO. How the hell does this make you better? He doesn't try, he doesn't get open. All he does is stand in one spot! every time the ball was in his hands last year there was 60,000 people shouting "PASS IT". 

The cap situation got pissed to hell and Lafrenz has been living on potential his WHOLE DAMN CAREER! He did okay in Denver and that's because him and NVE were the only person that could shoot it(Mcdyess when not injured). Danny Fortson was our starting center with Lafrenz and that's why we traded him! Nellie already said Danny was the starter. So highly paid bench player for an all star? you make your own conclusions! 

lol I guess it's not wrong to be optimistic. Think about it this way, Mark Cuban. Every time he does a trade he pulls a rape job. He screws everybody. Juwan Howard trade, NVE trade, Jamison trade, now TOINE trade. I don't think we got the short end of the stick here. 

and i know Nellie is our GM, but they do scouting and Cube pulls the trigger.

I hope Lafrenz does well, but ya'll are way to early and way to bias and optimistic. Christ............KT and Ward, LMAO. the funny thing is we took that trade away, because we thought there was no way the knicks would accept it, but we played with the idea, because of Layden, BUT STILL LMAO! Oh well if ya'll are happy with it, then I'm happy for ya'll, but I thought ya'll we're getting a little too carried away.


BTW didn't Dallas have the best chemistry last year? and that was with NVE taking a boat load of shots. Now we have Jamison who offered to come off the bench and Walker won't have to shoot all the shots he did, basically playing both point guard and power foward!

Dallas' chemistry won't be a problem. Nellie is GREAT coach! He will work it out even though he doesn't have to do that much. both Twan's(toine) are happy to be here and said will make personal sacrifices. Portland doesn't have the most talent, plus we don't have cheeks or dunleavy coaching our team! we'll fix it don't worry.


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## Jacres318 (Jun 8, 2003)

financially! this was about as good financially for the celtics as the vin baker trade. You would have been better off letting walker walk and sign Curry or whoever in 2005.


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## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jacres318</b>!
> financially! this was about as good financially for the celtics as the vin baker trade. You would have been better off letting walker walk and sign Curry or whoever in 2005.


dude the mavericks have no chemisty and play no defense. Once again, they will have zero chance against the lakers and spurs. Nash sucks. Antoine is not a team player. In the long run it is Boston who will have raped you. :yes:


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## Jacres318 (Jun 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PatBateman</b>!
> 
> 
> dude the mavericks have no chemisty and play no defense. Once again, they will have zero chance against the lakers and spurs. Nash sucks. Antoine is not a team player. In the long run it is Boston who will have raped you. :yes:


really mature, my friend, lol. I think one of the boston fans was right. one guy on our board said ALL BOSTON FANS ARE BITTER and TAKE EVERY CHEAP SHOT THEY CAN, EVEN THOUGH THEY NO NOTHING ABOUT THE GAME. I'm a believer! 

Of course we had no chemistry, Nash got on the all star team by luck, and of course he sucks and Raef will be better than Toine in the long run, LMAO. Why am I even responding to this?

Listen ya'll had no one who could shoot the ball on your team, except Pierce and Walker. Might I add Walker got Pierce a lot of open SHOTS! Every time Pierce got double teamed.....Walker had to shoot the ball! Would you pass it to a guy who couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat? DAMN! what the hell is he suppose to do? The Gameplan is built around him and Paul! Paul is usually double teamed, and Walker has a lot of confidence in his shot! 

The ball was always in Walkers hands, result to him being a point foward! Of course he's going to force a lot of shots when they're double teaming Pierce. I know he forced some shots when that was the situation, but PLEASE! Christ, some people go off and rattle there mouth without even knowing the game! I bet half of the Toine haters don't know the situation he was in. I'm glad for Toine! I didn't care if he went to us or someone else, but just to get away from ya'll and Ainge. Walker will have a lot of weight lifted off of his shoulders. I bet my last dime, that he doesn't force as many shots in Dallas, NO DOUBT IN MY MIND. 

Don't anyone comeback with a post like this last one. That was completely ignorant. If you're not a Toine hater and know the game, your replys are welcome, but I'm not going to respond anymore to these bitter boston fans.

I still can't believe you came with the Mavs have no chemistry, well shows your knowledge.:yes:


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## Jacres318 (Jun 8, 2003)

oh and one more thing, why do you keep saying this will help you in the long run? ya'll pissed the cap to hell, doesn't help you there! You have no one to take the shot when peirce is double teamed, Doesn't help you there. 

Then You have no one to take the ball down the court, unless Banks pans out. And that's just potential. Welsch is just potential, I liked him though. But don't count on him being your starter. Just watch him and if he pans out like he should then great. 

If you thought Toine was cancer to your team, you couldv'e let him walk and signed a prize free agent in 2005(curry). That wouldv'e been way better. Instead now your stuck with a soft white guy who's basically a bust for 6 years. Yes he is a bust, he has never lived up to his potential and in Dallas didn't live up to a 1/10 of his potential.

Would someone tell me how in the hell this makes ya'll better in the long run? ya'll shouldv'e made the trade with NY, got Sweeney for a low price and develop him. Get KT and have him start at the 4. and Get Ward to be a veteran backup and have williams and Banks battle it out for the starting point guard.

But no, ya'll get a soft white man for a horrific price and give up an all star while you're at it.

I want to know why every Celtic fan is saying we screwed Dallas and we are better in the long run. How the hell do you figure? 

Seriously if you watch him on defense, He doesn't flinch when the ball is two feet infront of him for a rebound. He figures other people will do the job for him. If someone can explain to me how it makes you better other than Toine sucks so do the Mavs, you're an idiot. Seriously if you didn't like Toine let his contract run out and pick up eddy Curry or someone in the big 2005 FA market.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

I like this trade for Boston and for Dallas.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Jacres*

You haven't been paying attention if you don't see how this helps us against the cap. Saying our fans don't "no" anything about basketball is like saying Cowboy fans don't know anything about football. 

[strike]Get off our board and go talk about your fantasy team. I hope the Mavs have a great year, Antoine has a great year, and you guys beat the Lakers. I just don't want to hear about the merits of this trade from fans who think going backdoor is a sexual euphemism.[/strike]

We're a welcoming Forum here. :naughty: ---agoo


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## bballin (Jun 3, 2003)

if we start running as a team, I like the trade, if we stay a 3pt bomber, then it bites.


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## Jacres318 (Jun 8, 2003)

i didn't say that celtic fas don't, another CELTIC FAN said that on the Mavs board. And I said if all Celtis fans were like that one guy than I see why the statements were made.

Then how are you saying this makes yall better in the cap? Seriously? Ya'll locked up a guy who (not going into details), for a huge price and if this trade was for cap issues, then ya'll wouldv'e let him walk, instead of trading for the most overpaid player in the league(besides baker). 

Raef isn't the future. If you wanted to have a young star for the future, get Eddy Curry as a FA. Or someone in that 2005 Market. 

Don't tell me just that I haven't been paying attention, explain how this is the best move cap wise or ya'll and how this makes ya'll the new inductees is Salary cap heaven. I wish Raef the best, but saying this makes ya'll better in the future and a GREAT salary cap move, is just ignorant. The trade didn't make the Celtics better, the trade wasn't made to make the Celtics better, it was personal. Ainge didn't say, hey in the long run we'll be better and our salary cap situation will be great. 

Raef is mostly known for his huge contract and his little play. That's why every time you here his name, his contract is brought up along with it EVERY TIME.

You basically extended Walkers contract cap-wise and got a player 20x worse. But hey ya'll be better in the long run, right?

Don't worry I'm tred of posting on this board I'll leave ya'll alone. I won't post again on this board.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*Thank God*

For not posting. I won't try to explain the cap situation to you, but Walker's salary will come to mind in Big D frequently from now on.

And we will be a better team once the new guys learn the system if we aren't already.

Having said that, I believe you guys in Dallas are better too. It was a good trade for us, but also good for you.


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## Truth34 (May 28, 2003)

*It is early yet....*

But it would appear a majority of Boston fans (although others did vote) like the trade Ainge made.


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