# Official Playoff Thread - GAME ONE: Chicago Bulls @ Miami Heat 7:00PM CST ESPN



## kukoc4ever

<div id="gameHeader" style="width:600" xmlns:fo="http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Format">
<h1 id="gametitle" style="text-align:center; color:#B62630">The heat is on for Miami!</h1>
<p style="text-align:center"><a href="http://www.bulls.com"><img border="0" src="http://espn.go.com/i/nba/clubhouse/chi_logo.gif"></a><span style="font-weight: bold"> vs. </span><a href="http://www.nba.com/heat/"><img border="0" src="http://espn.go.com/i/nba/clubhouse/mia_logo.gif"></a></p><div id="seasonRecord"><p style="text-align:center; font-weight:bold">Season Records<br><span style="color:#ff0000">Chicago Bulls(41 - 41) (20 - 21 on road)</span><span style="font-weight:bold"> @ </span><span style="color: #B62630">Miami Heat(52 - 30) (31 - 10 @ home)</span></p></div><div id="arenaview" style="text-align:center"><a href="http://www.aaarena.com/"><img src="http://www.soulofamerica.com/images/photosfl/miami/AmAirlinesArena.jpg" border="0"></a></div><div id="arenainfo" style="text-align:center"><a href="http://www.aaarena.com/" style="color:black"><span style="font-weight:bold">American Airlines Arena</span></a><span style="font-weight:bold">, Miami, FL, April 22, 2006</span></div>
<div id="gamestart" style="text-align:center">Chicago Bulls @ Miami Heat 7:00PM CST ESPN</div><br><div id="startinglineups" style="text-align:center">
<div style="border: thick double #B62630; font-weight:bold">STARTING LINEUPS</div>
<div id="homeTeamImages" style="text-align:center"><table border="0" align="center"><tr><td align="center" valign="top"><table><tr><td valign="top"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_williams" style="font-size:x-small; color:black"><img src="http://www.nba.com/media/act_jason_williams.jpg" border="0"></a></td></tr><tr><td valign="bottom" align="center"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_williams"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">Jason Williams<br></span><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">PG - 6' 1'' - Florida</span></a></span></td></tr></table></td><td align="center" valign="top"><table><tr><td valign="top"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dwyane_wade" style="font-size:x-small; color:black"><img src="http://www.nba.com/media/act_dwyane_wade.jpg" border="0"></a></td></tr><tr><td valign="bottom" align="center"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dwyane_wade"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">Dwyane Wade<br></span><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">G - 6' 4'' - Marquette</span></a></span></td></tr></table></td><td align="center" valign="top"><table><tr><td valign="top"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/antoine_walker" style="font-size:x-small; color:black"><img src="http://www.nba.com/media/act_antoine_walker.jpg" border="0"></a></td></tr><tr><td valign="bottom" align="center"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/antoine_walker"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">Antoine Walker<br></span><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">F - 6' 9'' - Kentucky</span></a></span></td></tr></table></td><td align="center" valign="top"><table><tr><td valign="top"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/udonis_haslem" style="font-size:x-small; color:black"><img src="http://www.nba.com/media/act_udonis_haslem.jpg" border="0"></a></td></tr><tr><td valign="bottom" align="center"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/udonis_haslem"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">Udonis Haslem<br></span><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">PF - 6' 8'' - Florida</span></a></span></td></tr></table></td><td align="center" valign="top"><table><tr><td valign="top"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/shaquille_oneal" style="font-size:x-small; color:black"><img src="http://www.nba.com/media/act_shaquille_oneal.jpg" border="0"></a></td></tr><tr><td valign="bottom" align="center"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/shaquille_oneal"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">Shaquille O'Neal<br></span><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">C - 7' 1'' - LSU</span></a></span></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div><div style="text-align:center;font-weight:bold;font-size:large">VS.</div>
<div id="homeTeamImages" style="text-align:center"><table border="0" align="center"><tr><td align="center" valign="top"><table><tr><td valign="top"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kirk_hinrich" style="font-size:x-small; color:black"><img src="http://www.nba.com/media/act_kirk_hinrich.jpg" border="0"></a></td></tr><tr><td valign="bottom" align="center"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kirk_hinrich"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">Kirk Hinrich<br></span><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">G - 6' 3'' - Kansas</span></a></span></td></tr></table></td><td align="center" valign="top"><table><tr><td valign="top"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ben_gordon" style="font-size:x-small; color:black"><img src="http://www.nba.com/media/act_ben_gordon.jpg" border="0"></a></td></tr><tr><td valign="bottom" align="center"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ben_gordon"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">Ben Gordon<br></span><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">G - 6' 3'' - UCONN</span></a></span></td></tr></table></td><td align="center" valign="top"><table><tr><td valign="top"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/andres_nocioni" style="font-size:x-small; color:black"><img src="http://www.nba.com/media/act_andres_nocioni.jpg" border="0"></a></td></tr><tr><td valign="bottom" align="center"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/andres_nocioni"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">Andres Nocioni<br></span><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">SF - 6' 7'' - Angentina</span></a></span></td></tr></table></td><td align="center" valign="top"><table><tr><td valign="top"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/malik_allen" style="font-size:x-small; color:black"><img src="http://www.nba.com/media/act_malik_allen.jpg" border="0"></a></td></tr><tr><td valign="bottom" align="center"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/malik_allen"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">Malik Allen<br></span><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">PF - 6' 10'' - Villanova</span></a></span></td></tr></table></td><td align="center" valign="top"><table><tr><td valign="top"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/mike_sweetney" style="font-size:x-small; color:black"><img src="http://www.nba.com/media/act_michael_sweetney.jpg" border="0"></a></td></tr><tr><td valign="bottom" align="center"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/mike_sweetney"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">Michael Sweetney<br></span><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">FC - 6' 8'' - Georgetown</span></a></span></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></div>
<div id="benchlineups" style="text-align:center">
<div style="border: thick double #B62630; font-weight:bold">KEY BENCH PLAYERS</div>
<div id="homeTeamImages" style="text-align:center"><table border="0" align="center"><tr><td align="center" valign="top"><table><tr><td valign="top"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/gary_payton" style="font-size:x-small; color:black"><img src="http://www.nba.com/media/heat/act_gary_payton.jpg" border="0"></a></td></tr><tr><td valign="bottom" align="center"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/gary_payton"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">Gary Payton<br></span><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">PG - 6' 4'' - Oregon State</span></a></span></td></tr></table></td><td align="center" valign="top"><table><tr><td valign="top"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/james_posey" style="font-size:x-small; color:black"><img src="http://www.nba.com/media/heat/act_james_posey.jpg" border="0"></a></td></tr><tr><td valign="bottom" align="center"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/james_posey"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">James Posey<br></span><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">GF - 6' 8'' - Xavier</span></a></span></td></tr></table></td><td align="center" valign="top"><table><tr><td valign="top"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/michael_doleac" style="font-size:x-small; color:black"><img src="http://www.nba.com/media/act_michael_doleac.jpg" border="0"></a></td></tr><tr><td valign="bottom" align="center"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/michael_doleac"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">Michael Doleac<br></span><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">C - 6' 11'' - Utah</span></a></span></td></tr></table></td><td align="center" valign="top"><table><tr><td valign="top"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/derek_anderson" style="font-size:x-small; color:black"><img src="http://www.nba.com/media/act_derek_anderson.jpg" border="0"></a></td></tr><tr><td valign="bottom" align="center"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/derek_anderson"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">Derek Anderson<br></span><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">GF - 6' 5'' - Kentucky</span></a></span></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div><div style="text-align:center;font-weight:bold;font-size:large">VS.</div>
<div id="homeTeamImages" style="text-align:center"><table border="0" align="center"><tr><td align="center" valign="top"><table><tr><td valign="top"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/luol_deng" style="font-size:x-small; color:black"><img src="http://www.nba.com/media/act_luol_deng.jpg" border="0"></a></td></tr><tr><td valign="bottom" align="center"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/luol_deng"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">Luol Deng<br></span><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">GF - 6' 9'' - Duke</span></a></span></td></tr></table></td><td align="center" valign="top"><table><tr><td valign="top"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tyson_chandler" style="font-size:x-small; color:black"><img src="http://www.nba.com/media/act_tyson_chandler.jpg" border="0"></a></td></tr><tr><td valign="bottom" align="center"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tyson_chandler"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">Tyson Chandler<br></span><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">C - 7' 1'' - Dominguez HS</span></a></span></td></tr></table></td><td align="center" valign="top"><table><tr><td valign="top"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/chris_duhon" style="font-size:x-small; color:black"><img src="http://www.nba.com/media/act_chris_duhon.jpg" border="0"></a></td></tr><tr><td valign="bottom" align="center"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/chris_duhon"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">Chris Duhon<br></span><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">PG - 6' 1'' - Duke</span></a></span></td></tr></table></td><td align="center" valign="top"><table><tr><td valign="top"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jannero_pargo" style="font-size:x-small; color:black"><img src="http://www.nba.com/media/act_jannero_pargo.jpg" border="0"></a></td></tr><tr><td valign="bottom" align="center"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black"><a href="http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jannero_pargo"><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">Jannero Pargo<br></span><span style="text-align:center; font-size:x-small; color:black">PG - 6' 1'' - Arkansas</span></a></span></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></div>
</div>


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## mizenkay

*thanks to K4E for getting our GAME ONE thread up!*



The overall Playoffs thread that showtyme started is still stuck, for overall series comments etc. and for each game we will have INDIVIDUAL threads to make it easier to navigate and comment.


go Bulls!


*BLOOD ON THE HORNS!!*


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## The ROY

i hate when Skiles shuffles the line-up. It always makes our team look bad starting players like Malik Allen & Sweetney.


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## mizenkay

my bulls e-news GAME ONE 



yahoo preview GAME ONE 



ESPN preview GAME ONE 



v bookie GAME ONE


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## TwinkieTowers

The ROY said:


> i hate when Skiles shuffles the line-up. It always makes our team look bad starting players like Malik Allen & Sweetney.


But, it makes their bench look so much better.


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## kirkisgod

Go Chicago Bulls!


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## UMfan83

Just for fun, compare last years playoff starting lineup with this years:

LY:
Hinrich
Duhon
Nocioni
Harrington
Chandler

TY:
Hinrich
Gordon
Nocioni
Allen
Sweetney


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## UMfan83

BTW, please remove Pargo from the list of key bench players, or if you insist on keeping him up there, please put him on the Heat side because its clear he would only be key to the Heat if he plays.


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## ndistops

UMfan83 said:


> Just for fun, compare last years playoff starting lineup with this years:
> 
> LY:
> Hinrich
> Duhon
> Nocioni
> Harrington
> Chandler
> 
> TY:
> Hinrich
> Gordon
> Nocioni
> Allen
> Sweetney


Advantage: 2006.


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## Fizer Fanatic

Can someone make it be 7pm already? I can't wait. Deng's first playoff game should be fun to watch. Go Bulls!


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## Bulls96

Bulls 96 - Heat 89


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## BG7

The ROY said:


> i hate when Skiles shuffles the line-up. It always makes our team look bad starting players like Malik Allen & Sweetney.


I think you seriouisly are underrating Malik Allen. His new found ability to hit the midrange jumpshot is one of the reasons for our resurgence, it gave us some production from one of those big guys, albeit not in the post, but its still a big guy scoring for us! If only Tyson had Malik's jumpshot!

Also, whats with the hate on Jannero Pargo? He was big for us in the playoffs last year, and he was big for the Lakers in the playoffs when he was there too. We don't have Kobe though, so the roles different, so he feels like he is more entitled to a shot while on the Lakers, he'd take few shots but make very good hustle plays and passes to Kobe/Shaq, also he did make some big shots for the Lakers too. There's a good reason why he's on our playoff roster.


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## BG7

Bulls 103
Heat 94


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## step

Woohoo, it's on in 6 hours, I better get some sleep.


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## theanimal23

I love Malik and Jannero. Both of these guys are paid on the cheap side and bring something to the table. They are guys who could be called upon when it is an off night for the rest of the team. Malik brings some midrange game and rebounding. I know I'd rather have someone starting other than Malik, but he is better than a lot of overpaid players playing PF.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1

Let the Games begin.


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## jordanwasprettygood

Ugh...does this day seem excruciatingly long to anyone else?

I am so excited for this game, I really hope we are respectable - even if we don't win (which of course we will :smile: ), if we can just stay close, that will give the Heat something to ponder about.


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## theanimal23

I'm anxious to see our team wear the black socks and black shoes. It's cool how we have a uniform tradition for the playoffs.


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## theanimal23

jordanwasprettygood said:


> Ugh...does this day seem excruciatingly long to anyone else?
> 
> I am so excited for this game, I really hope we are respectable - even if we don't win (which of course we will :smile: ), if we can just stay close, that will give the Heat something to ponder about.


I have a feeling that most games will be with the Heat having a lead, and the Bulls winning by making runs in the second half for the win/close loss.

Heat in 6, but I think the Bulls may surprise everyone. I just hope we don't get blown out in any games.


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## jordanwasprettygood

theanimal23 said:


> I have a feeling that most games will be with the Heat having a lead, and the Bulls winning by making runs in the second half for the win/close loss.
> 
> Heat in 6, but I think the Bulls may surprise everyone. I just hope we don't get blown out in any games.


These are my sentiments exactly. I think (or hope) that every win, for both teams, will be hard-fought and down to the wire. My mind says Heat in six as well...but my heart says BULLS IN 7!!!!!

I'm looking forward to seeing what Luol does - I think he'll be so excited to be playing in the playoffs that he'll go off. Of course Ben has to be Mr. Clutch still, and Noc and Kirk and co. must play the games of their lives too, but I really think we will see our young team gain some national respect through this series if nothing else.


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## BenDengGo

yeah I'll be able to watch the game too....and everybody who has pplive can watch it too!!!



> Event: NBA
> Description: 02:00 Chicago @ Miami (1. Spiel) (CCTV-5, Shanghai?) 04:30 Denver @ L.A. Clippers (1.Spiel) (CCTV-5, Guandong, Shanghai?) Game choice of Shanghai sketchy; CCTV-5 supposedly shows both.
> Datum : 23 April 2006


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## UMfan83

jordanwasprettygood said:


> Ugh...does this day seem excruciatingly long to anyone else?
> 
> I am so excited for this game, I really hope we are respectable - even if we don't win (which of course we will :smile: ), if we can just stay close, that will give the Heat something to ponder about.


It does when you have to spend part of your day watching the crap that the Northside calls a baseball team. C'mon Bulls I need a pick-me-up in the biggest way


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## spongyfungy

Dwayne Wade motivated himself by watching Jordan DVD's last night. :sigh:


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## TripleDouble

spongyfungy said:


> Dwayne Wade motivated himself by watching Jordan DVD's last night. :sigh:


----------



## TwinkieTowers

jordanwasprettygood said:


> Ugh...does this day seem excruciatingly long to anyone else?
> 
> I am so excited for this game, I really hope we are respectable - even if we don't win (which of course we will :smile: ), if we can just stay close, that will give the Heat something to ponder about.


Finally this game is about to start!


----------



## TwinkieTowers

TripleDouble said:


>


 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


----------



## spongyfungy

:laugh:


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## BG7

Hopefully this full circle **** doesn't ruin the game by making you watch the game in long periods of time from angles that you don't like. Personally I'd rather just get the regular broadcast angle, and then I guess they could do the other angles for replay like a normal game,but lets see how this goes.


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## remlover

Let's go team. Just as Norm always says, "40minutes of intensity". Play hard that is all i ask! 


-oh and hit some shots too


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## BG7

What the hell, Bill Walton? I thought we were getting Stephen A. Smith, Greg Anthony, etc.


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## TwinkieTowers

Here we gooooooooooooo.


----------



## remlover

sloth said:


> What the hell, Bill Walton? I thought we were getting Stephen A. Smith, Greg Anthony, etc.


You wanted SAS?


----------



## MikeDC

TwinkieTowers said:


> Here we gooooooooooooo.


The Chicago Bulls: vs. The Miami Heat







vs








* 
Can you dig it?*


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## myst

Thats on ESPN Full-Circle, turn on ESPN 2


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## MikeDC

remlover said:


> Let's go team. Just as Norm always says, "40minutes of intensity". Play hard that is all i ask!
> 
> 
> -oh and hit some shots too


We could probably use 48 minutes of intensity tonight!


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## mizenkay

stephen a. and greg do the studio stuff, they don't do games.

meanwhile, every miami fan seems to be wearing a white t shirt. 

quite the visual.


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## BG7

myst said:


> Thats on ESPN Full-Circle, turn on ESPN 2


Oh alright, i thought they just changed the game to ESPN exclusive because the tv guide had boxing on.


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## remlover

Mikedc said:


> We could probably use 48 minutes of intensity tonight!


 :rofl:


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## TwinkieTowers

The full circle commentary is much better.

But, the lack of atmospheric game sound makes it feel detached.


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## BG7

Alright, I turned off full circle and turned on the regular broadcasting. I'd rather watch a comfortable angle with worse announces than a game with ****ty angles.


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## kirkisgod

This is going to be a "Full Circle" Embarassment.


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## BG7

Nice cutting early on, exactly what we need to do against the Heat, Shaq doesn't look too good to me, he made the shot, but Sweetney/Noc played defense the right way on him.


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## spongyfungy

COME on. Sweetney. get that board. use that butt.


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## spongyfungy

Noc with the J!

yay.


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## kirkisgod

Red Bull!


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## TwinkieTowers

FC works from an analytical standpoint. You can see how Haslem got that offensive rebound.


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## BG7

If we keep making our shots like this, and wait for Gordon to catch fire on threes we should be in good shape.


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## spongyfungy

Shaq just leaning in.

Sweetney needs to make those!

3 seconds on Shaq.


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## Darius Miles Davis

Andres "Red Bull" Nocioni.

How come we've never thought of that?


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## HKF

Sweetney just doesn't have enough height.


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## spongyfungy

Malik with that jumper. Our jumper is working. Let's play some D!

Give Toine that jumper all day.

Hinrich for three. MISS. Noc for three. MISS


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## BG7

Thats a ****ing offensive foul on Shaq, he can't hold onto Sweetney.


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## MikeDC

TwinkieTowers said:


> The full circle commentary is much better.
> 
> But, the lack of atmospheric game sound makes it feel detached.


Even worse, I don't get ESPN2 in HDTV.

Haslem pretty much just took the ball right away from Sweetney.

Sweets passed up a shot he should have taken. Kirk misses, Noc Misses.

Haslem dunks it.


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## TwinkieTowers

A cheap non call moving screen by Shaq lets Haslem dunk it in.


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## BG7

Nice **** on Sweetney, one foul on Shaq! Sweetney came to play!


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## spongyfungy

Hinrich gets fouled.

Wade reached in. That's bogus.

foul on O'neal. Thank you. Sweetney has to go inside. no more baby hooks.


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## BG7

Yeah, Sweetney is the most dominant center in this game .


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## TwinkieTowers

Sweetney has balls going right at Shaq.


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## spongyfungy

Noc running the break. to Malik for the baseline. Great job.

And Deng and Tyson are still on the bench.


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## Darius Miles Davis

Damn, we're playing well. Way to counterpunch, guys!


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## MikeDC

Sweets draws the foul on Shaq, and then sticks a fadeaway over him. Really nice offensive set for Sweets.

Allen takes the pass from Noc and drains it. 

Our guys are fighting back after Haslem abused them the first few sets.


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## TwinkieTowers

Skiles has to manage Malik's playing time so he can make those jumpers at the end of the game. Looks like Malik and Sweets are there to play tonight.


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## kirkisgod

Keep it up now guys


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## mizenkay

lol @ bill walton: mike sweetney came to play.

but that was impressive that shot over shaq.

all tied up and riley needs the timeout.

meanwhile, these wade commercials where he falls down? i am SO OVER THEM.

:laugh:


----------



## spongyfungy

I'm glad we're not lying down like the Kings.

We're not playing erratic. much more controlled.

Some shots we tried to shoot in rhythm and we point blank missed them but our short jumpers are going in for us.


----------



## CHKNWANG321

Is anyone watching on espn2 with the over the court view. Its pretty cool

GO BULLS


----------



## BG7

Now we just need to wait for Hinrich and Gordon to light fire, once they get going, Riley will be saying "uh oh spaghettios". We are limiting Wade again, taking away his lane once again.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Keep on bringin' it Scottie and Greg!


----------



## MikeDC

I like the fact that we're coming out and pushing the ball. If we're going to win, we need to run and put some strain on Shaq (aging and fat) and Walker (not exactly quick at the 3), Jason Williams and his chronically banged up body.


----------



## CHKNWANG321

Pippen is a homer


----------



## BG7

Shaq's scoring good, so we need to get a second foul on him.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

FC is cool because of the constant analysis and no commercials.


----------



## spongyfungy

Greg and Scottie ex-bulls vs. misc I like the debate. The ex-bulls are really low on Wade and Shaq. kind of fun to listen to.


----------



## JRose5

Great D by Hinrich there.


----------



## CHKNWANG321

Thats really cool how everything is white. I was at the cavs game today and everyone got black shirts that said "Witnesses" but it definetly didnt look like that.


----------



## BG7

That should have been a foul on Shaq on Sweetney.

Nice to see that the refs today didn't skip over the part in the rule book about traveling.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Interesting, Wade is guarding Gordon. Gordon makes a nice pass to an open Allen on the baseline, who is, dare I say it, en fuego.


----------



## spongyfungy

Sweetney needs to get a better shot up than that. What was that.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

A boatload of travelling by the Heat.


----------



## BG7

So Sweetney doesn't touch Williams, its a foul. Shaq hacks Sweetney, its a no call.


----------



## spongyfungy

How was that not a foul on Shaq.

hit the arms.


----------



## geoshnas

these refs already giving shaq the star treatment


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Sweetney is going right at Shaq, which is an interesting strategy, although he's not getting the calls, and is flopping around and taking bad shots while he stries to draw fouls.


----------



## spongyfungy

TwinkieTowers said:


> A boatload of travelling by the Heat.


I'm glad they are calling it.


----------



## BG7

Yes, that charge thing is happening again


----------



## spongyfungy

Noc doing what he's done all season. 

THANK YOU.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Noc the charge-master!


----------



## JRose5

Great charge taken by Noch!
Not sure what Riley and Walker are complaing about, that was pretty obvious.


What the hell was Allen doing on that offensive possession?


----------



## spongyfungy

giant killer for real.


----------



## MikeDC

Ben floats it over Shaq. Not that Gordon set up the play there... though it was basically a clear out for him.


----------



## spongyfungy

holding on Tyson?

How about hooking by Shaq?


----------



## TwinkieTowers

FC is so fun hearing the guys debate about the Bulls' ability to beat the Heat.


----------



## ChiBron

Guess it'll be 5 on 8 for this series. Should've expected it


----------



## geoshnas

Im getting tierd of the Shaq bias already,and its only gm 1


----------



## spongyfungy

Duhon called for a holding foul.


----------



## BG7

Nice cut by Deng, one point game!


----------



## MikeDC

Noc has turned into a really sharp passer, hasn't he?


----------



## spongyfungy

O'neal is playing some seriously good defense.


----------



## BG7

What happened there, that better not be an offensive foul on Deng, Shaq fell over before Deng even got to him.


----------



## JRose5

Chandler's going to have to do better then that to stay on the floor.
Deng looks good.


----------



## mizenkay

lol. deng just plows into shaq and gets called for the offensive foul.


----------



## BG7

We really do have Wade's number


----------



## spongyfungy

Wade can't bowl over Duhon like that.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Deng travelled. Offensive foul on Wade.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Guys, I don't see how you can say that the refs are against us in this game. We've gotten a lot of questionable calls already. 

What a quarter!


----------



## MikeDC

The more we see of Michael Doleac the better our chances


----------



## BG7

Nice so far, gotta love that Gordon jumper nice and high.

Shutting down Wade again, Sweetney does a decent job on Shaq, and Chandler is awful on him. Lets make our run here, with Shaq on the bench, and then lets not look back.


----------



## JRose5

Gordon made those last two possessions look easy..

2 point game after Q1, we look good.
If we can stay with them like this till the 4th, we'll have a shot at it.

I liked that stat they just showed, Points off Turnovers:
Bulls - 10
Miami - 0

Making the most of our opportunities so far.


----------



## spongyfungy

Gordon is an assassin!

We have to watch Posey. He's got a spring in his step and has done well the past week.


----------



## taurus515th

come on bulls yall can beat this team


----------



## HKF

Chandler isn't going to be helpful if Sweetney is not in the ball game.


----------



## geoshnas

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Guys, I don't see how you can say that the refs are against us in this game. We've gotten a lot of questionable calls already.
> 
> What a quarter!



calls for turnovers yes,but not fouls on them which matters most.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Nice quarter. Wade still not in the game.


----------



## spongyfungy

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Guys, I don't see how you can say that the refs are against us in this game. We've gotten a lot of questionable calls already.
> 
> What a quarter!


 I have my homer glasses on. Every call against the Bulls is BS.

this thread is bias-sanctuary.


----------



## BG7

Maybe its time to bring out the other half of the twin towers, the mean, green, balling machine, Luke Schenscher!


----------



## UMfan83

Wow, I haven't seen Ben clear for a shot like that in awhile. Also his inside game has been respectable too.

BTW, I love this Full Circle thing. Good debates going on during the commercials.

I really like how the Bulls played this quarter. Gives me hope.

Dwayne will get into this game, don't worry. He just hasn't been the central part of the gameplan yet.


----------



## jordanwasprettygood

Anyone watching espn2 concurrently? Greg Anthony has Scottie's back (A Knickerbocker supporting a Bull!), Tim Legler and John Saunders are full out assaulting Greg and Scottie, it's getting kind of heated haha


----------



## greekbullsfan

bulls only foul?heat players not?


----------



## BG7

Is the crowd digitally altered? Everyone has a white shirt on!


----------



## BG7

Du for three!


----------



## spongyfungy

Duhon for three!!!!

ring it up.


----------



## spongyfungy

Othella breathes on Wade.


----------



## JRose5

sloth said:


> Is the crowd digitally altered? Everyone has a white shirt on!


My favorite shot was of a section of the crowd with everyone wearing a white shirt and one guy with a black one and a stupid look on his face.


----------



## spongyfungy

We have to let Wade shoot those jumpers.


----------



## BG7

Tyson Chandler is by far the worst player on the court. He is reall hurting us, he needs to play with energy. Damn.


----------



## spongyfungy

uh-oh 6-0 run by the Heat.

I think we need to slow it up.


----------



## geoshnas

Chandler is almost useless


----------



## ChiBron

How was Harrington not fouled on that jump hook? Heat are getting away with all sorts of crap in the paint. Y can't a game involving us ever be fairly officiated? We're YET TO ATTEMPT A single ****ing FT in this game.


----------



## UMfan83

I'm not liking the foul calling on the Bulls. Meaning its non existant.

Ugh we need to be more visable presence on the boards because they are killing us. Also we are taking bad shots now. Obviously its a result of nothing going on inside.

That's ok though, if we can be within 10 by the 4th we'll have a shot. We always make it close, and Miami's perimeter D doesnt scare me.


----------



## BG7

Obviously its not fun to get down by 7, but I'm not too worried right now, if the Heat expand it to upwards of 20 points, than I'd be worried, but anything within 15 points going into the 4th we can usually come back from and make a game of it.


----------



## spongyfungy

I don't think we can keep relying on Malik with all those jumpers.

This is where we really miss Songaila.

Toine with the hook.


----------



## BG7

nice drive by Hinrich.

Hopefully we get Sweetney back in, I see Gordon went back in too.


----------



## spongyfungy

Kirk pushes the issue and drives on Doleac..

shooting foul.


----------



## spongyfungy

Gordon for three!!!!


----------



## BG7

Gordon for three, heads up play by Hinrich to pass to him.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

When Ben shoots in rhythm he almost never misses.


----------



## JRose5

Back down to 4.
Damn Kirk misses, coulda been down to 1.


----------



## spongyfungy

One thing about Wade is that he has a problem looking at the refs complaing about fouls instead of playing D.

Kirk for three. MISS.

Deng boards. Hinrich runs the break. to Noc for the layup!!!

7-0 run by the Bulls.


----------



## JRose5

Two point game, good take by Noch.
Gordon does look good, we need to keep getting him the ball.


----------



## spongyfungy

Shaq comes in and the Bulls start running... HMMMMmmmmm.....


----------



## BG7

If Chandler decides to play basketball in the second half we can put the Heat away. We are stopping Wade, and basically Shaq was owning us, but they stopped passing to him, so that takes care of him!


----------



## spongyfungy

Deng is our x-factor.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Chandler's daughter isn't coming soon enough I guess.


----------



## ChiBron

For us to be competitive we have to have Gordon on the FLOOR ALL THE TIME. That little stretch w/ Du/Kirk and no Ben was brutal to watch.


----------



## BG7

spongyfungy said:


> Shaq comes in and the Bulls start running... HMMMMmmmmm.....


Yeah, the Heat looked a lot better defensively with Shaq off the court, but it might just have to do something with Gordon being off the court at the same time. Shaq just doesn't hustle, and that is why he hurts the Heat defensively, he had his little block on Duhon, but nothing overwhelming otherwise.


----------



## mizenkay

oooh. i liked that bulls playoff spot!!

and now a gordon highlight package from the 9-9 game!


----------



## BG7

2 fouls on Shaq, very nice!


----------



## JRose5

Good to see the offensive foul on Shaq, that's what we need.
That's 2 on him.


----------



## JRose5

Damn Kirk, what the hell was that?


----------



## spongyfungy

come on Kirk......... make a better decision on that.


----------



## BG7

Don't know what Hinrich was trying to do, he can't be throwing wild cross court passes like that, I think its better if he just takes an akward shot in that situation.


----------



## spongyfungy

JRose5 said:


> Damn Kirk, what the hell was that?


 the commentators said that someone stumbled and Kirk was in no man's land.

someone didn't roll. I think it was a guard.


----------



## BG7

Offensive foul, good job NOc.!


----------



## JRose5

Noch takes another charge, guy's a stud.
If they're going to keep driving recklessly at the hoop, he can take them all night.

Gotta score on those turnovers though.


----------



## BG7

I think Chandlers strategy on guarding Shaq should be deny the entry pass, because Chandler is garbage guarding Shaq.


----------



## mizenkay

NOCIONI!!

how much do we  this guy!?


----------



## spongyfungy

Shaq is doing well again.


----------



## BG7

Nice tip by Chandler, earning that contract (a hundred dollars of it)


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Wow Chandler did something good!


----------



## spongyfungy

BS by Chandler but I'll take it.


----------



## JRose5

J-Will is hot.
And open..


----------



## BG7

Noc. for three!


----------



## SecretAgentGuy

Noc is incredible right now. How much do you think his next contract is going to end up being?


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Good form Noc.


----------



## spongyfungy

Noc answers a Jason Williams three with his own!!


----------



## BG7

Haslem ejected!


----------



## spongyfungy

OMG Haslem kicked out!


----------



## JRose5

About time to try Luke on Shaq, Chandler is almost nonexistent.

Haha Haslem got tossed.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Wade is getting all the calls, he had to have fouled Gordon. Yea, and Haslem is GONEEEEEEE.


----------



## mizenkay

whoa whoa whoa

*udonis haslem EJECTED!!!! double technical. he threw his gum at joey crawford!*

not a smart idea!!!


----------



## JRose5

Ben chokes the free throw.

Hahaha he threw his mouthpiece at the ref.


----------



## spongyfungy

throwing the mouthguard at his feet.

That was pretty dumb by Haslem.


----------



## MikeDC

What the hell just happened there? Haslem wiggs out and throws his mouthpiece at Joey Crawford. That was pretty ****ing stupid. And it was a girly throw, too!


----------



## MJG

Haslem, what a flipping moron.


----------



## JRose5

Horrible move from Sweetney, saw that block coming as soon he got the ball.


----------



## geoshnas

Chandler is getting owned


----------



## spongyfungy

Sweetney can't do fakes on Shaq. What is he thinking? Shaq doesn't jump.

and if he did jump, that's just a death wish. "when planets collide"


----------



## MikeDC

Say what you want about Antoine Walker, but when he's focused on playing ball he's got a lot of skills. He pretty much just tore Chandler up.


----------



## BG7

I was near certain that Nocioni threw an elbow or something, and it was a Haslem retalliation, but guess not.

Hopefully they suspend him for 2 games at least.


----------



## ChiBron

WTF is Skiles thinking by taking Deng out and putting Sweetney back in?


----------



## BG7

Damn, that fired up the Heat with the ejection, damnit. Lets try to get it down to 4 by half time.


----------



## step

Haslem was an idiot, he should be suspended for a game atleast. 

Oh plz Skiles, I know we lack height, but get Chandler out of the game. Bring him in later.


----------



## geoshnas

Hey Tyson Doooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Something You Over Paid Stiff!


----------



## MikeDC

Good lord, Shaq's a big man.


----------



## spongyfungy

Deng needs to get in. We may need to junk it up and play some 4 guard action


----------



## ChiBron

I shudder to think how hopeless this series would be looking if 'Zo was healthy. It doesn't look very good as it is. How are we gonna score once the jumpshots begin clanking?


----------



## MikeDC

Time for a commercial break: MikeDC's commentary tonight is brought to you by Elijah Craig Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Now before that last block, I really thought Sweets got fouled by Shaq with the body.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

The Bulls need to keep on driving. Don't get intimidated by Shaq's blocks.


----------



## spongyfungy

Shaq is playing some tremendous basketball.

I'm pining for some Eddy Curry quick slams. oye...


----------



## UMfan83

OK now I'm worried. C'mon I already lost DLee and the Cubs season. Don't do this to me Bulls make it a good game at least...


----------



## remlover

Come on Tyson!!!

This MIA crap is getting old.


----------



## DaBullz

I pinch.


----------



## UMfan83

Yeah this is the one matchup where we would be better off with Curry. 

Although he was never good playing against Shaq IIRC


----------



## spongyfungy

well, Deng is in...ty.


----------



## UMfan83

We really need to not be in the penalty with 3-4 minutes left in quarters. UGH


----------



## spongyfungy

When Doleac is doing that...ugh......


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Noc's new nickname is the Red Bull.


----------



## TripleDouble

Good hard playoff foul by Nocoioni. Nothing easy.


----------



## spongyfungy

That's a play on the ball

get up Wade.


----------



## JRose5

Good foul on Wade.
That tip on the other end was absolutely lucky.


----------



## ChiBron

All that heart and hustle doesn't seem to be making much of a difference on defense. They're scoring at will.


----------



## UMfan83

Gotta love when Noc has to go over Chandler to get rebounds and putbacks because Tyson is to f'ing passive. Sack up Chandler.


----------



## BG7

Nocioni blocked Wade big time, hopefully Wade is shaken up a bit, that was all ball, just one of those ones where they strongly block it, and it jams up the players refs.


----------



## spongyfungy

booing Noc.

lol....

Pike comes in. BOOOOOOOO,.


----------



## JRose5

Pike in the game.

And drains it!


----------



## BG7

Pike earning his contract.


----------



## mizenkay

good lord. it's pike time.

and he nails the three!


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Thanks Pike!


----------



## UMfan83

Pike in the game! LOL


----------



## SecretAgentGuy

I love Wade, but c'mon, quit the acting. The foul wasn't anywhere near that hard.


----------



## spongyfungy

Pike better make 20 3's

Pike with one.


----------



## MikeDC

Deng hits one. What's up with Deng not playing? We need him in there.

---

Actually Shaq always gave Curry lots of credit. I remember one game where he and Tyson bacially shut Shaq down a couple years back. Neither here nor there at this point, except we could use 1) some beef and 2) someone to make Shaq work on defense.

-----------

OK, Shaq dunking on us is to be expected. Michael Doleac facializing us is another thing entirely :curse:


----------



## ChiBron

Shooting over 60% now.


----------



## kirkisgod

Touch fouls


----------



## spongyfungy

Where was the foul? on the shot or the drive? is that continuation? give me a break....


----------



## BG7

Some tough breaks this quarter, some shots that were close that went in, but heck, were the comeback kid of the NBA.


----------



## JRose5

Defense is just nonexistent.
61 points in a half is God awful.


----------



## UMfan83

OH LOOK A FOUL CALL Now that wasnt so hard was it you idiots


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Now Deng is shooting threes why?


----------



## ChiBron

How are we going to get a stop?


----------



## spongyfungy

Ben to the line.....I guess you have to fall down for the bulls to get calls.


----------



## TripleDouble

This is the kind of BS superstar favortism that has turned a lot of fans off the game. Go ahead Stern, bury your league.


----------



## kirkisgod

Fouls are the difference right now--we arent getting to the line enough. Too man And Ones for Miami


----------



## BG7

They just called Ben Gordon last years rookie of the year  Did they change the results


----------



## chifaninca

sp00k said:


> I love Wade, but c'mon, quit the acting. The foul wasn't anywhere near that hard.



COme on, the guy needs more footage for his "I get Byatch slapped but get up" commercials.


----------



## ChiBron

TwinkieTowers said:


> Now Deng is shooting threes why?


Probably scared Skiles might sub him w/ Sweetney if he doesn't make a quick impact.


----------



## spongyfungy

TwinkieTowers said:


> Now Deng is shooting threes why?


 He shot 0 last time and was on fire.

Ben knocks a J down.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Gordon is showing his improved driving game.


----------



## JRose5

Good take by Gordon, he's had a good half.
Also a good take by Payton.

Gordon misses, 12 point difference at the half.
Gotta find some defense.


----------



## BG7

The reason we are losing, Tyson Chandler, he hasn't done a single good thing yet except that tip. Disgraceful.


----------



## TripleDouble

Just pathetic defense. Maybe all the hype from Anthony and Pippen got to these guys heads.


----------



## ChiBron

Looks pretty hopeless.

Kirk continues his trend of contributing little to nothing offensively in 1st halves.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

The Bulls need to make a little more shots so the Heat don't get those easy transition points.


----------



## MikeDC

Guh.


----------



## taurus515th

the second half is going to be all bulls


----------



## jnrjr79

We've gotta step up the D. They shot 61% that half. We're lucky they're not up by more. If we can get them to shoot in the 40's in the second half, we could still take this one.


----------



## ChiBron

TripleDouble said:


> Just pathetic defense. Maybe all the hype from Anthony and Pippen got to these guys heads.


I just see superior talent. Effort is definitely not an issue with us. We're simply not on the level to compete against a Miami team that's going all out.


----------



## HKF

Bulls need to play better defense, but if they are not going to get any calls going to the rim, that's just ridiculous.


----------



## UMfan83

The bulls completely lost focus of their game plan when things unraveled that quarter. It's up to Skiles to calm them down in the second half. I don't see it happening though.


----------



## The ROY

LaMarcus in the low post would be GREAT right about now


----------



## BG7

Come on guys, don't get so down. The story of this season was Bulls back from behind. 12 pts isn't bad, if Chandler wakes up in the second half, we will be big time in here.


----------



## step

Is it me or does it seem we play better with Shaq on the floor.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

We got outrebounded 23-14. Tyson Chandler had all of two rebounds in that half. 

Yeah, the defense was pretty poor.

The foul calls do not surprise me, guys. They get in the lane more than twice as much as we do. What do you expect?


----------



## spongyfungy

You know how people say Skiles isn't scared to bring in anyone? I get scared everytime Pike comes in. If there's a switch, and he has to guard Wade, it's over.

Even old man Payton drove on Pike with a high one off the glass.


----------



## UMfan83

i just cant see the Bulls come back with Shaq in the game. He's had a huge impact on the game so far.


----------



## ChiBron

step said:


> Is it me or does it seem we play better with Shaq on the floor.


They went on that BIG run after Haslem's ejection w/ Shaq ON the floor. So, NO.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

It'll be fine. The high number of layups the Heat are getting is alarming, but I expect the Bulls to continue to fight. Don't forget that the Bulls have 51 points themselves and ONLY shooting 43.5%.


----------



## DaBullz

Darius Miles Davis said:


> We got outrebounded 23-14. Tyson Chandler had all of two rebounds in that half.
> 
> Yeah, the defense was pretty poor.
> 
> The foul calls do not surprise me, guys. They get in the lane more than twice as much as we do. What do you expect?


They called only 4 more PFs on the Bulls than on the Heat. The Heat's fouls were offensive fouls. The refs were really favoring the Bulls (13 TOs on everything from travelling to 3 seconds, too). Haslem absolutely got mugged (but this IS playoffs, suck it up!).


----------



## furious styles

it appears that bulls are getting knock around by miami defenders, and getting no love from the refs, but if the bulls go and show much beath on one of miami player, they darn near swollow there whistle 
before they blow it. much respect to the bulls players not involving in conversations with the punks *** refs....


----------



## DaBullz

Time to hack-a-shaq

Or is that not "the right way?"


----------



## JRose5

spongyfungy said:


> You know how people say Skiles isn't scared to bring in anyone? I get scared everytime Pike comes in.


:laugh:

It is true, I don't mind him spotting up for those threes, but him on defense just makes you shake your head.

Though most of our defense has done that today.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

DaBullz said:


> Time to hack-a-shaq
> 
> Or is that not "the right way?"


Not the right way yet, because that would put the Bulls in the penalty too soon. Not good for a team that's free throw deficient.


----------



## chifaninca

Well, to me it was a disappointing and bizarre first half. Guys like Allen and Sweetney actually had a little impact. Guys like CHandler have no impact.

I expected Miami to come out on fire, hoped the Bulls could weather the first few bursts and they did. Until the Ejection they were doing very well. ironically, the ejection benefited the Heat. They got inspired and we did nothing.

Let's see how we respond in the second half. We are very capable of coming back. However, if it comes down to a few possesions, the Shaq/Wade factor will win out.


----------



## furious styles

correct me if im wrong, but isn't the team with the player who caught the double tech suppose to be the team that falls apart...


----------



## BG7

DaBullz said:


> Time to hack-a-shaq
> 
> Or is that not "the right way?"


Its only the right way if the shot doesn't have a chance at going in. Bring on Schensher, he should be good for 6 hard fouls.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

The only reason the Heat outrebounded the Bulls is because they're making their shots and the Bulls aren't doing that as much. The Bulls do have five offensive rebounds.


----------



## BullsAttitude

Not a bad first half. The ejection of Haslem pumped up the crowd and Miami got pumped too. 

If we can keep them from getting to the line 3 times more than us (already there twice as much) than we have a chance in the 4th. Yes, I agree too many layups in the first half.

Here's the thing. Miami and it's fans know that they have to win the title this year or next. Their guys aren't getting any younger and teams like us have a very bright future. They know in 2 or 3 years if things keep going the same way, the roles will be reversed. 

I love seeing 17 pages of comments, no other comes this close.


----------



## UMfan83

Chandler should be benched for the second half and only play if there is serious foul trouble. I don't think he gets it. The one good play he had (the putback), it looked like he was not even in a good position and Haslem and I think Walker were in a much better position. Luckily, Ben's shot lost a lot of momentum hitting the rim and didnt bounce back too far.


----------



## BG7

I think Shaq just threw that pass like that so he didn't have to run down the court.

Gordon for three, he's the best player on the court outside of Shaq right now.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Noc rebounds very similarly to Rodman (not the constant tipping to himself, though).


----------



## spongyfungy

Shaq throws away the ball into the stands. Why don't you stare at your hands now?

Ben for three!!


----------



## chifaninca

Ben Gordon is really proving himself. Great to see it.


Chandler, come on. We want to root for you, but you make it so damn hard to do.


----------



## Anima

I missed the 1st half, can someone please tell me why Haslem was ejected?


----------



## BG7

Sweetney cleans up!


----------



## kirkisgod

Looked like Allen got hit there--Sweetney on the spot


----------



## spongyfungy

Sweetney with the sweet touch. Thank you.


----------



## JRose5

Sue? D'Oh! said:


> I missed the 1st half, can someone please tell me why Haslem was ejected?


He got mugged by about 3 Bulls, and there was no call, so when he was gettin up he threw his mouthgard at Joey Crawford.

Edit: cant type


----------



## kirkisgod

AND ONE baby! Sweets and Malik working well.


----------



## spongyfungy

Inside to Allen GOOD AND 1.

We are going inside.

Wow. Sweetney got Shaq in the air. I don't believe my eyes.


----------



## BG7

Wow, Sweetney is playing great, setting up guys now, we better sign the guy again, get him in shape, make him the special player he had the potential to be coming into the league.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Sweetney with a nice fake and pass to Allen.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

The Red Bull!


----------



## BG7

Sad enough that a throw in in the Eddy Curry deal, Michael Sweetney, is a hell of a lot better than Tyson Chandler.


----------



## spongyfungy

coming out like gangbusters here.

Sweetney with the block!

Kirk pushes it to Noc jumper GOOD!


----------



## chifaninca

PAGING KIRK HINRICH. Kirk Hinrich - please show up.


----------



## Anima

> He got mugged by about 3 Bulls, and there was no clue, so when he was gettin up he threw his mouthgard at Joey Crawford.


That sounds like an automatic suspension to me.


----------



## MikeDC

The Bulls need to keep going at Shaq and making him work. Laying up around him ain't gonna work, but those Sweetney fadeaways and Allen jumpers draw him out a bit from right under the bucket.

We absolutely sucked in transition. We've got the young legs, but the Heat scored whenever they pushed. It should be the other way around.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Kirk just needs to make his shots. He does have four assists.


----------



## spongyfungy

chifaninca said:


> PAGING KIRK HINRICH. Kirk Hinrich - please show up.


 mark my words. Kirk will come up big.


----------



## kirkisgod

You gotta love the resiliency and heart.


----------



## spongyfungy

Ben long deuce MISS. Sweetney with the board.

to Gordon. FT jumper GOOD.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Good foul by Malik.


----------



## kirkisgod

We gotta watch the fouls or Miami is gonna be in the bonus soon.


----------



## BG7

Micahel Sweetney and Malik Allen could be formidable next year with Ty Thomas/ Lamarcuse Aldridge.


----------



## spongyfungy

our perimeter defense is atrocius... Always know where Posey is.


----------



## JRose5

Sweetney!!
That's embarrassing.


----------



## kirkisgod

NOO sweetney!!


----------



## chifaninca

Can we put Deng in the game please? We need a scorer and rebounder.


Sweetney you fat tub of goo!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## UMfan83

TERRIBLE HOW DO you now score there??!?!?!?!


----------



## spongyfungy

Sweetney faking NOBODY OUT. what a great fake. he pysched himself out.

come on Sweetney. grab that.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Noc (The Red Bull) is an awesome rebounder. Always gets the ball at the top of his jump.


----------



## MikeDC

****ing Sweetney gets two free chances and blows them. ****ing dunk the ball!


----------



## chifaninca

Kirk - Anytime time now. You're not Ben Gordon. Waiting tillt he 4th, isn't a good plan.


----------



## BG7

I garauntee Sweetney won't miss a look like that again this game. We need him in the game, he brings something that Tyson Chandler is oblivious too, effort.


----------



## ChiBron

Curry could at least make a layup. Sweetney's just a waste of space on earth.


----------



## UMfan83

That sequence made me throw a book across the room. Asre you freakin kidding me? For sure a hard playing team, our bigs are a bunch of softies. I can't believe that possession. I am going to have nightmares about that tonight. And don't get me started on Noc missing an open look. Simply not excusable in the playoffs.


----------



## jnrjr79

Geez, Sweetney was hard to watch there. Utterly painful.


----------



## spongyfungy

sloth said:


> I garauntee Sweetney won't miss a look like that again this game. We need him in the game, he brings something that Tyson Chandler is oblivious too, effort.


 I agree but he shouldn't be playing scared like that. He needs to go all out and concentrate.


----------



## chifaninca

Gordon, Nocioni and Allen are our best guys on the floor.


Hinrich - anytime.

Skiles - move Allen to C and get Deng in there!


----------



## spongyfungy

Allen.. ARGGH


----------



## MikeDC

In the words of Shaq... you're a big man, you dunk the ball. "Dunk, dunk, dunk, dunk, dunk, dunk dunk!"


----------



## UMfan83

What the..... this is the dumbest the Bulls have played in 3 weeks.


----------



## spongyfungy

Steady Ben....

keep going to the well.


----------



## BG7

Ben Gordon is on his way to a better performance than Lebron. No way we should trade him.

oh yeah, dammit, Chandlers back in.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

How do the Heat seem to manage to neglect Ben?


----------



## kirkisgod

Tyson is the worst Bull when it comes to guarding shaq. Duhon could do better.


----------



## MikeDC

There we go, get Ben the ball. Actually, getting Kirk going would be pretty useful at this point too.


----------



## ChiBron

Where would we be w/o Ben?

30 point deficit.


----------



## spongyfungy

Malik needs to help on that. Tyson got owned...he needs to try to body up on him. 

He got way too much space in front.


----------



## BG7

Hinrich about time!


----------



## spongyfungy

Kirk for three!


----------



## BG7

Hinrich again!


----------



## MikeDC

Yeah, just like that!!


----------



## spongyfungy

spongyfungy said:


> Kirk for three!


 times 2..


----------



## TwinkieTowers

SPMJ said:


> Where would we be w/o Ben?
> 
> 30 point deficit.


But they're not. What if Shaq wasn't playing?


----------



## hawkcub

Back to back 3's.


----------



## mizenkay

kirk finally hits the three!



and back to back!


chifan - he heard you!!

:laugh:


----------



## chifaninca

TwinkieTowers said:


> How do the Heat seem to manage to neglect Ben?



The same way our guys forget to not let Shaq catch and dunk.

We can't keep trading baskets....


HEY!!!! Hinrich back to back - Thank you.


----------



## spongyfungy

Kirk, this is not the and1 mixtape tour...


----------



## TripleDouble

Chandler is pathetic. I might join the Pippentorade hate club soon. I understand not being able to cover Shaq (who can), but he's done nothing on the boards for Chicago.


----------



## BG7

Yes, another foul on Shaq!


----------



## chifaninca

Shaq almost bent CHandler in half. LOL


----------



## BG7

4 on Shaq! Wait no, they let Shaq get away with it and give it to Posey.


----------



## MikeDC

Tyson gets the call. We've got a real opportunity here. Shaq's suddenly got 4 fouls.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Antoine Walker is really stepping up tonight.


----------



## chifaninca

Deng really contirbutes and works hard on the boards. You gotta like that. Now we'd like to see some offense from you Deng it!


----------



## spongyfungy

Chandler defended Shaq much better second time around. made him shoot that turnaround hook.

loose ball foul on Shaq. If they did not call that climbing Chandler like a ladder over the back, I'd throw something at the TV


----------



## BG7

Deng, you suck...jk, but make ft's in the future.


----------



## UMfan83

Can't be missing FTs luol


----------



## ChiBron

It's sad how disappointed our opponents get when there's a call against 'em. They just can't believe something so fair can happen.

Deng MISSES both :curse:. They make a 3. 5 point swing. We're beating ourselves.


----------



## chifaninca

Posey is answering the bell tonight


----------



## BG7

Hinrich getting started, nice.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Yea, Kirk found his stroke.


----------



## spongyfungy

told ya chifanica about Kirk...he's feeling it.


----------



## spongyfungy

Deng not doing well.

misses FT, leaves posey open and now a defensive 3 seconds.

now fouls Shaq. is that not 3 seconds?


----------



## UMfan83

Even if the Bulls lose this, I cant wait to hear all the stories that popup about Wade's shooting against the Bulls. Another terrible shooting performance today.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Good foul on Shaq there.


----------



## ChiBron

Laugh on Walker all you want but I would trade our entire frontcourt w/ exception of Allen for him.


----------



## TripleDouble

Where is the foul there? Just because Shaq tried to dunk from too far away does not mean he was fouled.


----------



## MikeDC

Tyson with the hands of stone 

...
followed by the acrobatic if unproductive block.


----------



## UMfan83

CHANDLER SHOULD JUST LEAVE the team. Seriously Chandler you are playing terrible. YOU NEVER SHOOT OK!?

The Bulls have played probably their best basketball this game and they are still down 10. Pathetic.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

MikeDC, Shaq only has 3 fouls.


----------



## spongyfungy

You know it's not your day when Deng misses 2 Ft's but Shaq nails both.

Tyson with the ever so awkward jumper.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Nice curl by Deng.


----------



## ChiBron

Just seeing TC on the court makes me cringe. 

Back to a 10 point game. That turnover by Kirk followed by 2 missed FTs by Deng completely stunted our comeback.


----------



## BG7

We need to finish this quarter out strong, cut it down to 4 going into the 4th.


----------



## UMfan83

Time for Luol to redeem himself.


----------



## spongyfungy

Darius Miles Davis said:


> MikeDC, Shaq only has 3 fouls.


 yeah, they should have called it on Shaq. It was called on Posey instead.

That was a great posession by the Bulls. two guys rolling defended well. back to Kirk drives, to Deng cuts to the basket. Misses but fouled.


----------



## BG7

I like our shot at this game, its looking good to me, within winning distance.


----------



## MikeDC

Darius Miles Davis said:


> MikeDC, Shaq only has 3 fouls.


Yeah, i posted too quick... when they realized it was 4 on Shaq they switched it to Posey


----------



## spongyfungy

I so wish Tyson can put it on the floor, hop step go and lay it up with his left hand, using his skinny build to get around Shaq.


----------



## UMfan83

sloth said:


> I like our shot at this game, its looking good to me, within winning distance.


It also seems like we've blown a lot of good opportunities in this game. If we played just a little bit better, we'd be close to tied in this one.


----------



## spongyfungy

I hope Ben just explodes in the 4th. I mean absolutely crush the Miami Heat.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

What's funny about this Bulls team this season, I always felt that no lead is too big to overcome for the Bulls unless it's like a 20 point deficit with about five minutes left in the game. I've never felt the comeback potential for any other team except these Bulls. That speaks volumes about the Bulls' perpetual fighting spirit.


----------



## spongyfungy

Kirk gets whacked around so much...

drains the jumper though.


----------



## MikeDC

I'd like to see us picking up the pace a little bit here.


----------



## spongyfungy

you know why Wade didn't get the call? because he went over the back...


----------



## chifaninca

Hey -------------

This a great game to watch. I'm proud to be a Bulls fan regardless of the outcome tonight!


----------



## TwinkieTowers

I gotta say that The Red Bull is very crafty under the basket.


----------



## spongyfungy

oh my goodness. Bulls are getting killed and there are no calls. 

Payton trips Duhon... nothing. OOB Heat ball.


----------



## kirkisgod

We are getting huge stops just cant convert on the offensive end.


----------



## UMfan83

Even though the presentation on CSN is better, I can no longer listen to Kerr and Dore complaining about every foul that goes against the Bulls. This is playoff basketball, not all of those are going to be called.


----------



## ChiBron

That's such a pathetic shot by Noce. WTF is he thinking taking a 20 footer when we got numbers in transition?


----------



## TripleDouble

That shot was too quick by Noc. Wade just runs at Hinrich and gets to the line.


----------



## spongyfungy

Duhon needs to step in front or just not reach in at all. You know they are going to call it.

call goes against Kirk.... his fourth.


----------



## spongyfungy

Ben at the buzzer. YES!


----------



## MikeDC

Walton on Kirk " this guy has star written all over him".

Duhon's not having all that good a game.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

The score shows that this is old school basketball.

Ben is a freakin awesome shooter.


----------



## BG7

Wow, Gordon really has arrived since we signed Randy Livingston.


----------



## UMfan83

We might get swept in this series, but Miami is going to be feeling it EVERY GAME.

Ben you are rediculous when you want to be.


----------



## ChiBron

Bailed out by Ben.

Noce ****ed up on our previous offensive possession, AGAIN. He can be so frustrating to watch sometimes.


----------



## mizenkay

i am just loving bill walton right now. frightening, i know, but i can't help myself.


----------



## spongyfungy

UMfan83 said:


> Even though the presentation on CSN is better, I can no longer listen to Kerr and Dore complaining about every foul that goes against the Bulls. This is playoff basketball, not all of those are going to be called.


 I can't listen to them.

Red Kerr yelling : "offensive foul!" at me 200x is driving me nuts.

Snapper Jones is much better.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

Gordon: ONIONS!!!!!!

We've got a game here, folks. 

I love Bill Walton, even if he says a bunch of silly stuff every game. His enthusiam is fantastic.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

SPMJ said:


> Bailed out by Ben.
> 
> Noce ****ed up on our previous offensive possession, AGAIN. He can be so frustrating to watch sometimes.


Take the bad with the much more good. The Red Bull can play.


----------



## BG7

Dwyane Wade has been pretty underwhelming this game, but he is still doing a hell of a lot better than the three regular season games, but needless to say, Posey, J-Will, and Walker all getting stuff done is the reason the Heat have the lead right now (and Shaq playing really good helps too).


----------



## spongyfungy

And when did Stacey King become such a homer? I guess CSN just told them to just go all out.


----------



## step

Paging Deng, paging Deng, there is a game going on, wake up.


----------



## kirkisgod

I'm not liking Duhon or Tyson in the game at all. show me

Kirk
Ben
Deng
Noc
Sweets


----------



## spongyfungy

Strap yourselves in ladies and gentlemen. Ben Gordon show is about to start.

sit back and relax, keep all hands inside and enjoy the ride.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

When Deng decides to move around more on offense the better he'll perform. Give him a break, though. It is his first playoff game.


----------



## chifaninca

Nocioni has a double double!


----------



## The Krakken

If it wren't for Gordon and Hinrich, we'd be getting killed right now.

Deng and Noce are just playing STUPID.

Watching Shaq shoot a better FT percentage than Deng is FRUSTRATING, but not nearly as frustrating as watching NOCE take a shot from 22 feet out when he's on a 1 on 5 break....and then throw the ball away later.....


----------



## step

> Strap yourselves in ladies and gentlemen. Ben Gordon show is about to start.
> 
> sit back and relax, keep all hands inside and enjoy the ride.


Bloody oath!


----------



## UMfan83

spongyfungy said:


> And when did Stacey King become such a homer? I guess CSN just told them to just go all out.


Well I assume they want him to be a homer because hes calling the game on the Bulls station. But on Bulls postgame live he's been pretty homerific. Hes the one that kept predicting that the Bulls would make the playoffs, even in the more dire times


----------



## spongyfungy

Noc has to make that gimme. just has to.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Hmm...Ben is sooooooooooooooooo cold.


----------



## The Krakken

Somebody tell ben to keep attacking the basket when he has his man beat.


----------



## BG7

Hell, yeah, Gordon again!


----------



## BG7

Tie game, Gordon is a superstar, hell yeah, hell ****ing yeah, Noc with the block, hell ****ing yeah!


----------



## Anima

Gordon has looked great in this game, like the 2nd best player on the floor, IMO.

What are the chances of him getting 40 tonight?


----------



## spongyfungy

This game is tied baby.

Ben is an assasin..


----------



## mizenkay

ben gordon you are my hero.

come on bulls!



oh yeah. down 12 at the half and now it's tied!!


----------



## The Krakken

Somebody tell ben to keep attacking the basket when he has his man beat. 



EDIT: Nevermind.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

OMG, I love this team!


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Wow; an awesome block by The Red Bull on Wade!

Gordon is trying to show the NBA that there's a new star undersized shooting guard.


----------



## spongyfungy

> There seems to have been a slight problem with the database.
> Please try again by pressing the refresh button in your browser.
> 
> An E-Mail has been dispatched to our Technical Staff, who you can also contact if the problem persists.
> 
> We apologise for any inconvenience.


delete the nets forum please


----------



## chifaninca

And we are doing this with no frontcourt at all!

I consider Noc to be our SF - since Deng has gotten very little burn tonight.


----------



## spongyfungy

bad duhon, bad. you are not Ben. dribble around and get it back to him.


----------



## BG7

Chandler earns another 100 of his contract!


----------



## mizenkay

i think gordon maybe got tired of reading how he disappeared in the last game of the playoffs last year and this is his *STATEMENT!!*

i'm not worried about deng. i think it's nerves. he'll be huge in another game. book that.


----------



## Anima

Gordon has looked great in this game, like the 2nd best player on the floor, IMO.

What are the chances of him getting 40 tonight?


----------



## spongyfungy

How can you not love this team...

please BBB don't fail me now.


----------



## spongyfungy

ouch.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Wade vs. Gordon is happening.


----------



## RagingBulls316

KIRK!!! come on, you had a wide open layup there.


----------



## ChiBron

Noce's selfishness hurts, AGAIN.


----------



## DaBullz

...


----------



## BG7

Uh-oh, Wade's showing up.


----------



## DaBullz

Bulls can't pull away


----------



## TwinkieTowers

It is now the Wade vs. Gordon show.


----------



## kirkisgod

Why is Duhon guarding Wade in the klutch. Kirk should be all over Wade like he has been all game. Get Duhon outa there!


----------



## spongyfungy

we've responded all night

I hope Tyson and Ben just step up from here on out.

We are just riding on Ben...


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Please put Kirk on Wade again.


----------



## mizenkay

kirkisgod said:


> Why is Duhon guarding Wade in the klutch. Kirk should be all over Wade like he has been all game. Get Duhon outa there!



two words: man love


:cowboy:


----------



## DaBullz

Good things happen for Miami when Shaq dives on the floor for the loose ball


----------



## UMfan83

Chandler is such an idiot. This is the final run for the heat.


----------



## BG7

Nice, a Du 3.


----------



## spongyfungy

Duhon for three.

Ring it up


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Finally Duhon makes a 3.


----------



## kirkisgod

Thank you Scott Skiles listened to me. Kirk back on Wade. Now time to get tyson off shaq


----------



## UMfan83

DOES NOC EVEN LOOK AT THE 24 second clock


----------



## BG7

We really need to rebound these Shaq misses.


----------



## ChiBron

Get NOCE OFF THE ****ING FLOOR, Skiles. Or at least get Deng back in.


----------



## spongyfungy

That was a bad possession....

Hinrich to appear on the and1 mixtape tour vol. 9


----------



## BG7

Hinrich 3!


----------



## spongyfungy

Hinrich for three.!!!


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Thanks Kirk.


----------



## The Krakken

Noce is killing us.


----------



## BG7

Lets keep it up, this is our kind of game.


----------



## ChiBron

Don't like Kirk creating right now AT ALL. Give it to Ben.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Kirk with a nice crossover pullback, but misses the jumper.


----------



## kirkisgod

Get Deng in the ballgame--in for DUHON. We need at least a little height and athleticism to board these shaq misses.


----------



## UMfan83

Chandler needs to get off the floor, he is making dumb play after dumb play. He's not even useless, hes useful.. FOR THE HEAT. I know he has a tough assignment, but he's look terrible when Shaq wasnt on the floor too


----------



## spongyfungy

ESPN has chosen wisely, getting this on the full circle.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

SPMJ said:


> Don't like Kirk creating right now AT ALL. Give it to Ben.


The Bulls are making the Heat get lulled by not creating offense for Ben, and then he'll be unleashed in the final two minutes.


----------



## ChiBron

Shaq hasn't played like this in a LOOOONG while. Only against our frontcourt...:sigh:


----------



## spongyfungy

Chandler was on the inside...what?

how is that not an over the back...
i could see Noc with one but not tyson.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Ben wild bad.


----------



## spongyfungy

beautiful layup by Wade


----------



## BG7

Nice shot by Noc.


----------



## deranged40

SPMJ said:


> Don't like Kirk creating right now AT ALL. Give it to Ben.


Good call.


----------



## ChiBron

Even when we get a stop, we can't boxout Shaq.


----------



## kirkisgod

If i hear the word shrinkage again.......


----------



## spongyfungy

Wade's got it going inside and outside.


----------



## BG7

Nocioni 3!


----------



## TwinkieTowers

The Red Bull steps up again.


----------



## BG7

Michael Sweetney/Malik Allen time!


----------



## ChiBron

Chandler's out. GOOD. Wasn't contributing anything positive anyway.


----------



## Wynn

Score?


----------



## spongyfungy

I'm so proud of these guys. They fight back and work so hard...

Noc for three.

and Tyson fouls out...GAWD....


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Let's hope Malik Allen is up to task in the clutch like he has been lately.


----------



## kirkisgod

Let me see Schenscher come off that bench.


----------



## spongyfungy

104-102 Heat 2:13 left


----------



## UMfan83

Goodbye and good riddance Chandler. Amazing how big of a blowout this game would be if the Bulls havent shot 9/11 from 3 this half.

Gordon needs to get in on the offense more. C'mon 4Q.

In the end I think the Bulls will fall short, but they had a great effort tonight.


----------



## Wynn

spongyfungy said:


> 104-102 Heat 2:13 left


Thanks!


----------



## spongyfungy

John Saunders thinks Ben Gordon has been in the league for the past five years...what?


----------



## TwinkieTowers

I can't wait to see how Ben responds to Wade in the clutch.


----------



## kirkisgod

Just imagine what we would be like if we had a significant low-post threat.


----------



## UMfan83

kirkisgod said:


> Just imagine what we would be like if we had a significant low-post threat.


We'd have made a lot less 3's


----------



## TwinkieTowers

I'll say this: win or lose, the Bulls now know that they have a chance in this series.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Did that layup go in?

LOL, not even close.


----------



## BG7

Lets just go and get one more foul on Shaq, get him out of here for OT! Or we can win it here.


----------



## spongyfungy

foul on Shaq... Ben is the only one with courage, driving to the basket.


----------



## UMfan83

gotta make these...


----------



## kirkisgod

As Shaq throws a bullet at the backboard....

at least we have given ESPN a good "Full Circle" show


----------



## spongyfungy

Ben makes both FT's

105-104


----------



## BG7

YES, Wade is injured!!! Lets hope it lingers for this series, and then fully heals for him for next year!


----------



## spongyfungy

Wade got bailed. He was trapped and he couldn't go anywhere..


----------



## BG7

Need a stop here.


----------



## spongyfungy

Kirk is making some terrible decisions.


----------



## ChiBron

Thanks, Kirk.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Shaq is bumping Kirk so much and no call.


----------



## spongyfungy

oh geez. Ben got bailed out..


----------



## BG7

Time for Ben Gordon to make a name for himself as a clutch playoff player here. Lets bring it into overtime, and attack Shaq early and get him outta here.


----------



## TripleDouble

Has Hinrich not been paying attention to the last two seasons? Get the ball to Gordon!


----------



## UMfan83

Any doubt where this ball will be intended to goto? (ben)

Any doubt where it will end up? (noc, terrible despiration miss)


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Kirk had an open lane until Shaq checked him with his hip, and for some reason no foul was called.


----------



## spongyfungy

I can't understand why Kirk is making decisions while in the air.... 

This is so not like him. It's not good when Jason Williams is playing the more controlled game than Kirk. I think he's way too excited or the Heat aren't giving just closing up all his options.


----------



## Brian.

I am trying to figure out what the hell Hinrich is doing out there. Get the ball to Gordon. If the bulls lose this game they have no one to blame but themselves. They are making some terrible decisions out there.


----------



## BG7

If we need a foul, do an off the ball foul on Shaq like the Wolves did a few years back to win that one game.


----------



## BG7

Nocidiot?


----------



## UMfan83

WHAT THE heck WAS THAT??!?!?!?!


----------



## kirkisgod

What in the world NOC?!


----------



## ChiBron

Thanks, Skiles.


----------



## spongyfungy

UMfan83 said:


> Any doubt where this ball will be intended to goto? (ben)
> 
> Any doubt where it will end up? (noc, terrible despiration miss)


 money!


----------



## RagingBulls316

How many games is Skiles going to have us lose going to Nocioni in these situations. HORRIABLE. Come on. That's like 5 games this year.


----------



## TripleDouble

I swear to God, Hinrich and Noc are two of the least cluth players on this team. WTF has Gordon not touched the ball here.


----------



## McBulls

Free throws : Miami 33, Bulls 15. Chandler DQ. Story of the game.

We are the better team. Just need a little respect from the zebras.

Gordon >> Wade (who is not impressive without all the foul hunting)


----------



## The Krakken

UMfan83 said:


> Any doubt where this ball will be intended to goto? (ben)
> 
> Any doubt where it will end up? (noc, terrible despiration miss)


You called it. DAMN **** **** **** **** :curse:


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Hmm...what kind of shot was that...so early.


----------



## BG7

We need a Gordon three, foul Shaq, and make it again!


----------



## UMfan83

Well it was a good effort. Too bad all my sports teams always lose in the end. I think we got a moral victory tonight. Not sure if that means much


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## cima

****ing nocioni!


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## ChiBron

Can't believe Skiles would do that again. Has a last play set up for Noce EVER worked? Then WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?


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## TwinkieTowers

Kirk does what the Bulls should have done the possession before...


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## BG7

Wade is getting beat up bad, he keeps getting banged in the knees, good sign for the rest of the series.


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## BG7

Posey stepped out of bounds, bull****.


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## BG7

Bring in Pargo! Pike, and Ben oh my!


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## italianBBlover

CiMa said:


> ****ing nocioni!



C'mon ... you can say that to a 18-15-4-1 guy ...

Little respect


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## TwinkieTowers

How is Wade feeling? Bad bad knee!


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## BG7

he missed, Gordon time!


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## BG7

Not sure, but I think Wade might have torn something, that looked bad for him, but good for him if you get my drift.


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## BG7

nvm, just a cramp.


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## UMfan83

sloth said:


> Bring in Pargo! Pike, and Ben oh my!



Pargo would turn it over.


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## ChiBron

We beat ourselves. This was our golden opportunity to get a victory against an unsuspecting Miami squad. But Noce and Kirk...:sigh:


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## BG7

Tough loss.


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## RagingBulls316

Somebody, one of the beat reporter better ask Skiles why he continually insists on not going to Gordon in the clutch.

It's getting tiring. I think Skiles is a good coach for this team....but if he can't coach down the stretch. He will end up hurting these players in the long run.


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## spongyfungy

ugh.. that was bad.


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## UMfan83

I can accept a hard played loss. But they made a bunch of terrible mistakes that would have changed the momentum of the game.


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## The Krakken

italianBBlover said:


> C'mon ... you can say that to a 18-15-4-1 guy ...
> 
> Little respect


OH yeah we can. His bad decisions easily cost us 10 points and led to 4-8 fast break points for the Heat.

Noce and Hinrich decision making has been the difference in the game.


----------



## Wynn

sloth said:


> Not sure, but I think Wade might have torn something, that looked bad for him, but good for him if you get my drift.


We all want to win, but I think wishing an injury on an opponent is in poor taste. We seem to be playing well against him when he's on the floor. Wade going out for the series would diminish any victory we might have.


----------



## remlover

SPMJ said:


> Can't believe Skiles would do that again. Has a last play set up for Noce EVER worked? Then WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?


You are quite persistent in always blaming Skiles for our woes.


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## spongyfungy

Heat win. great effort by the Bulls. in the end, execution matter and we're were just awful.


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## BG7

On the bright side, we only loss by 5 with Shaq and Wade at their best.


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## step

Jesus christ, we need to work out a way to get Gordon the ball when it counts. To me this is a tough loss.


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## TripleDouble

For all the props Skiles gets for his playcalling out of timeouts, he makes a habit of not running the best plays to get Gordon open late in games. The amount of touches Gordon got late tonight was pathetic. And don't tell me Shandon Anderson is Scottie Pippen out there either.


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## ChiBron

remlover said:


> You are quite persistent in always blaming Skiles for our woes.


I think he's COY and a miracle worker for getting this team into the playoffs. But he's also an idiot for drawing up that play for Noce.


----------



## McBulls

Kudos to Miami. 
Great job of hitting 32 FTs and getting out best defenders in foul trouble.

Still, I think we did well for a team that was predictably outnumbered.


----------



## mizenkay

*Currently Active Users* 


61 (34 members & *27 guests*)	

mizenkay*, A Seal Clubber*, Aurelino, bbertha37*, Brian, CiMa, Darius Miles Davis, Dark Praetor, deranged40, HinrichFan12, italianBBlover, jnrjr79, JRose5*, kirkisgod, McBulls, Nocioni, r1terrell23, RagingBulls316*, remlover, Shabadoo, sloth, Smockgirl, SPMJ, taurus515th, The Krakken*, The ROY*, thom_york, TripleDouble, TRUTHHURTS, TwinkieTowers, UMfan83, victor_vc, Wynn, YearofDaBulls


*group hug!*


i have a hard time dumping on kirk and noc this game, i really do. noc with a double double and kirk kept the bulls in the game in the third. ben, of course, was magnificent. if deng shows up (get over those butterflies!) and tyson gets his mind on the game, we will be ok. bulls did not quit. 




and yes, if the bulls had a decent frontcourt.....

:thinking:


----------



## DaBullz

SPMJ said:


> I think he's COY and a miracle worker for getting this team into the playoffs. But he's also an idiot for drawing up that play for Noce.


The play he drew up for Malik Allen at the end was ... clever?

(What was Allen doing in the game at all?)


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## TwinkieTowers

Damn, the loss is disheartening, but remember that the Bulls are playing in Miami. I'll say it again: if this is Miami playing REAL playoff basketball the Bulls gotta feel very good about their chances. If Deng gets his game back into the series the better.


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## lgtwins

I got a feeling that we were going to lose about 8 minute to go in 4th quarter when Kirk took Gordon completely out of the game by keep overdribbling and trying to do it alone. As good as Kirk is, he consistently overdribble during the key part of the game. Lousy execution last 4 minute didn't help us either. Plays by Noc and Krik down the lane were a complete bummer.

Fantastic effort wasted. Gee.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

lgtwins said:


> I got a feeling that we were going to lose about 8 minute to go in 4th quarter when Kirk took Gordon completely out of the game by keep overdribbling and trying to do it alone. As good as Kirk is, he consistently overdribble during the key part of the game. Lousy execution last 4 minute didn't help us either. Plays by Noc and Krik down the lane were a complete bummer.
> 
> Fantastic effort wasted. Gee.


Why is Kirk overdribbling? Because everyone else is just standing around. What else can Kirk do if no one wants to get open?


----------



## cima

italianBBlover said:


> C'mon ... you can say that to a 18-15-4-1 guy ...
> 
> Little respect


Noc took a bonehead shot, not to mention many of the bonehead turnovers he and Kirk made. We should have won this game and with Zo out, this was THE ONE to steal.

And Ben Gordon not touching the ball in the final two minutes is unexcusable and unbelivable. He was money all game long. So many bonehead plays in the end. ****!


----------



## DaBullz

lgtwins said:


> I got a feeling that we were going to lose about 8 minute to go in 4th quarter when Kirk took Gordon completely out of the game by keep overdribbling and trying to do it alone. As good as Kirk is, he consistently overdribble during the key part of the game. Lousy execution last 4 minute didn't help us either. Plays by Noc and Krik down the lane were a complete bummer.
> 
> Fantastic effort wasted. Gee.


FWIW, Haslem had 7 boards in 15 minutes before being ejected.

Losing him is like the old bulls getting Rodman or HoGrant thrown out.


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## remlover

So you think that Allen getting the ball was drawn up for him? Were we watching the same play? Looked to me that getting the ball to Allen was a last second bailout.

And FYI: You need some big men out their to set screens to get the little guys open.


----------



## step

> and yes, if the bulls had a decent frontcourt.....


I can't wait for that, something that's much better than Allen and Sweets.



> The play he drew up for Malik Allen at the end was ... clever?
> 
> (What was Allen doing in the game at all?)


Execution, Gordon wasn't open to get the ball. As for Allen, who else are we going to put in? Schenscher?


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## cima

DaBullz said:


> FWIW, Haslem had 7 boards in 15 minutes before being ejected.
> 
> Losing him is like the old bulls getting Rodman or HoGrant thrown out.


Not to mention Zo possibly returning next game. Not looking good for us.


----------



## DaBullz

It was the bulls' strategy to take as quick a shot as possible, and that's what Nocioni did. He isn't our first choice to take that shot (Gordon is), but he IS our 2nd choice.


----------



## TripleDouble

mizenkay said:


> *Currently Active Users*
> 
> 
> 61 (34 members & *27 guests*)
> 
> mizenkay*, A Seal Clubber*, Aurelino, bbertha37*, Brian, CiMa, Darius Miles Davis, Dark Praetor, deranged40, HinrichFan12, italianBBlover, jnrjr79, JRose5*, kirkisgod, McBulls, Nocioni, r1terrell23, RagingBulls316*, remlover, Shabadoo, sloth, Smockgirl, SPMJ, taurus515th, The Krakken*, The ROY*, thom_york, TripleDouble, TRUTHHURTS, TwinkieTowers, UMfan83, victor_vc, Wynn, YearofDaBulls
> 
> 
> *group hug!*
> 
> 
> i have a hard time dumping on kirk and noc this game, i really do. noc with a double double and kirk kept the bulls in the game in the third. ben, of course, was magnificent. if deng shows up (get over those butterflies!) and tyson gets his mind on the game, we will be ok. bulls did not quit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and yes, if the bulls had a decent frontcourt.....
> 
> :thinking:


Yeah but don't you want to see the 30 point scorer with a history of clutchness get a couple of shots at the end there?


----------



## The Krakken

lgtwins....+rep.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Don't you wish Ben was clutch enough to find a way to get himself open?


----------



## BG7

I also would like to mention that the Heat are the 5th best team at Home, but not quite as stellar on the road, lets see how that plays out.

Bottomline, we contained Wade all game up until the 4th quarter, we collapsed defensively, and Wade went wild, while we took our guy, Ben Gordon out of the game offensively.


----------



## DaBullz

step said:


> I can't wait for that, something that's much better than Allen and Sweets.
> 
> 
> Execution, Gordon wasn't open to get the ball. As for Allen, who else are we going to put in? Schenscher?


FIVE 3 point shooters.


----------



## UMfan83

I've never been more conflicted about a performance then I have Noc's. The stat sheet looked great, and he had some great presence on the boards...but he just made several dumb plays in the second half.

And trust me, other then the Argentinians (sorry if i spelled that wrong) on this board, no one has more man-love for Noc then me. But you gotta call what you see.


----------



## ChiBron

We gave it away. We choked. W/ the pressure on we couldn't do basic things on the court(GETTING BEN THE ****ING BALL). That's called choking. The losers will take some sort of moral crap from this but there's no such thing in the playoffs. W/ no 'Zo and Haslem getting ejected early we were given a golden opportunity AND we blew it.


----------



## cima

DaBullz said:


> It was the bulls' strategy to take as quick a shot as possible, and that's what Nocioni did. He isn't our first choice to take that shot (Gordon is), but he IS our 2nd choice.


Well that's pretty crappy strategy. All Nocioni had to do was dribble the ball and could have gotten the ball to Gordon. That late in the game I don't want the ball in anyone else's hands but Ben.


----------



## spongyfungy

sloth said:


> On the bright side, we only loss by 5 with Shaq and Wade at their best.


 sloth, I'm encouraged by your optimism.

You know, I'm so proud of how the Bulls fought back EVERY single run by the Heat.


----------



## The Krakken

TwinkieTowers said:


> Why is Kirk overdribbling? Because everyone else is just standing around. What else can Kirk do if no one wants to get open?



Isn't it the pg's job to set up a play and get the best possible shot in that situation?


----------



## taurus515th

well i think the bulls did good i know we all wanted to win but come on u know that the refs will not let that happen especially on the first game.


----------



## ChiBron

TwinkieTowers said:


> Don't you wish Ben was clutch enough to find a way to get himself open?


It's not his fault if Kirk's calling for a clear-out and Skiles is a big enough idiot to draw the game's most important play for Noce.


----------



## mizenkay

TripleDouble said:


> Yeah but don't you want to see the 30 point scorer with a history of clutchness get a couple of shots at the end there?



yes. and he could do a much better job of getting himself open.


----------



## step

I'm trying to figure out why is there such a need to find a scapegoat.


----------



## spongyfungy

TwinkieTowers said:


> Don't you wish Ben was clutch enough to find a way to get himself open?


 I agree. Everyone was covered. when we were down 107-104 and again after the foul.

You want to throw it in Ben's general direction and hope he catches it? okie....

It's the players responsibility to find Ben. Skiles has said before that plays have first, second and third options and the players have to choose who they throw it to. It's Ben or nothing is not a smart play. What if they double team Ben like they did when we played against Detroit? Then what?


----------



## mr.ankle20

how come this team stop giving the ball to gordan?


----------



## TwinkieTowers

The Krakken said:


> Isn't it the pg's job to set up a play and get the best possible shot in that situation?


Isn't it the point guard's teammates' job to properly screen and roll and/or recognize that the point guard is looking for someone to pass to?


----------



## Frankensteiner

After reading this game thread (and every game thread during the season) I'm getting the impression we have 41 wins thanks solely to Ben Gordon and 42 losses thanks to Hinrich and Noc. Predictable.


----------



## Frankensteiner

mizenkay said:


> yes. and he could do a much better job of getting himself open.


^^^


----------



## DaBullz

Who knows how healthy Zo will be if he plays next game, anyhow. It's by game 7 that he'd be in playing shape (get the rust off)... perhaps.

Anyhow, Gordon started the game, played 44 minutes, and had double digit scoring quarters in Q3 and Q4. There's no validity to any claim that he's a Q4 scoring specialist. And without him carrying the team in the first half (Hinrich, where were you?), this would have been a big blowout.


----------



## lgtwins

TwinkieTowers said:


> Why is Kirk overdribbling? Because everyone else is just standing around. What else can Kirk do if no one wants to get open?


Kirk's overdribbling is not a new story. He is known to do that whole season and a lot of time the outcome has not been good. If you watched it closely, in general when Kirk was overdribbling, the ball rarely went to Gordon even when he was wide-open. During the middle part of 4th quarter when Kirk ws overdribbling, Gordon went without touching the ball for more than 5 trip for good 5 minutes.


----------



## Wynn

All of this bickering is really pointless. I imagine no one is taking this loss harder than the Bull. I also imagine we'll see a focused unit on the floor Monday ready to try and steal game two.

The Bull fought hard but lost. If we've got to blame anyone, maybe Deng, Tyson, Duhon, or the refs need to be called out before Kirk, Ben, or Noc. Ultimately, these were the only three guys who came to play for the Bull tonight. 

Tough loss.

Bet the Heats aren't feeling like the Bull is a cupcake right about now.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Anyway, we can be pissed all we want to, but even with this loss we realize that the "playoff version" of the Heat can be beat by the Bulls.


----------



## ChiBron

All around the net I see neutral fans just dumbfounded by our late game decision making and to flat out not give Ben the ball.


----------



## mizenkay

all right, all right....

*it's alway's kirk's fault. we get it!!!*


:whatever:


----------



## jordanwasprettygood

Well, I'm proud of the Bulls for scratching and clawing.
But moral victories don't mean jack stuff in the playoffs...getting to the playoffs was a moral victory, now that we're here we have to take advantage of every opportunity...

One thing I'm worried about is the fact that the Heat really didn't work the offense through Shaq as much as they should; if they do end up doing that later on it will be a big problem (pretty obvious, I know). On the other hand, Luol was a no-show today, and Du had some really bad fouls. I think our immaturity really showed itself in the end; there was no cool-headed veteran to slow it down and take it easy. The Bulls were just going on flat-out adrenaline, it seemed. 

But this was an encouraging game all in all. We can definitely play with the Heat. If we could steal the next game, that would be huge. We'll see.


----------



## step

> And without him carrying the team in the first half (Hinrich, where were you?)


Where was pretty much everyone else for that matter.

Next game Deng has to step up for us to have a chance. Hinrich and Gordon pretty much kept us in the game, pity noone else was there stepping up.


----------



## The Krakken

TwinkieTowers said:


> Isn't it the point guard's teammates' job to properly screen and roll and/or recognize that the point guard is looking for someone to pass to?


Yeah, but that is just it. NO PLAY WAS CALLED AT ALL. It was basically a clearout.


----------



## DaBullz

<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">3:08</td><td valign="top">*Andres Nocioni makes 9-foot jumper*</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">99-102</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">2:46</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">99-104</td><td valign="top">*Dwyane Wade makes 13-foot two point shot*</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">2:35</td><td valign="top">*Andres Nocioni makes 24-foot three point jumper (Chris Duhon assists)*</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">102-104</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">2:13</td><td valign="top">Tyson Chandler personal foul (Shaquille O'Neal draws the foul)</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">102-104</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">2:13</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">102-104</td><td valign="top"> Official timeout</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">2:13</td><td valign="top">Malik Allen enters the game for Tyson Chandler</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">102-104</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">2:13</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">102-104</td><td valign="top">Shaquille O'Neal misses free throw 1 of 2</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">2:13</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">102-104</td><td valign="top">Miami offensive rebound</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">2:13</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">102-105</td><td valign="top">*Shaquille O'Neal makes free throw 2 of 2*</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">2:01</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">102-105</td><td valign="top">Shaquille O'Neal shooting foul (Ben Gordon draws the foul)</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">2:01</td><td valign="top">*Ben Gordon makes free throw 1 of 2*</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">103-105</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">2:01</td><td valign="top">*Ben Gordon makes free throw 2 of 2*</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">104-105</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:49</td><td valign="top">Malik Allen shooting foul (Dwyane Wade draws the foul)</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">104-105</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:49</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">104-106</td><td valign="top">*Dwyane Wade makes free throw 1 of 2*</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:49</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">104-106</td><td valign="top">Jason Williams enters the game for Shandon Anderson</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:49</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">104-107</td><td valign="top">*Dwyane Wade makes free throw 2 of 2*</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:39</td><td valign="top">Kirk Hinrich bad pass (Antoine Walker steals)</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">104-107</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:21</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">104-107</td><td valign="top">Antoine Walker misses 8-foot jumper</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:19</td><td valign="top">Andres Nocioni defensive rebound</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">104-107</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:00</td><td valign="top">Kirk Hinrich misses 17-foot two point shot</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">104-107</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:57</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">104-107</td><td valign="top">Jason Williams defensive rebound</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:40</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">104-107</td><td valign="top">Jason Williams misses 23-foot three point jumper</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:38</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">104-107</td><td valign="top">Dwyane Wade offensive rebound</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:19</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">104-107</td><td valign="top">Dwyane Wade misses 19-foot jumper</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:18</td><td valign="top">Ben Gordon defensive rebound</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">104-107</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:18</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">104-107</td><td valign="top">Gary Payton personal foul (Ben Gordon draws the foul)</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:18</td><td colspan="3" align="center">*Chicago full timeout*</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:18</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">104-107</td><td valign="top">Shandon Anderson enters the game for Shaquille O'Neal</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:15</td><td valign="top">Andres Nocioni misses 25-foot three point jumper</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">104-107</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:14</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">104-107</td><td valign="top">Dwyane Wade defensive rebound</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:14</td><td valign="top">Kirk Hinrich personal foul (Dwyane Wade draws the foul)</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">104-107</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:14</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">104-108</td><td valign="top">*Dwyane Wade makes free throw 1 of 2*</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:14</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">104-109</td><td valign="top">*Dwyane Wade makes free throw 2 of 2*</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:14</td><td colspan="3" align="center">*Chicago 20 Sec. timeout*</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:08</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">104-109</td><td valign="top">Dwyane Wade shooting foul (Kirk Hinrich draws the foul)</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:08</td><td valign="top">*Kirk Hinrich makes free throw 1 of 2*</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">105-109</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:08</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">105-109</td><td valign="top">James Posey enters the game for Dwyane Wade</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:08</td><td valign="top">*Kirk Hinrich makes free throw 2 of 2*</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">106-109</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:07</td><td valign="top">Kirk Hinrich personal foul (James Posey draws the foul)</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">106-109</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:07</td><td valign="top">Eric Piatkowski enters the game for Kirk Hinrich</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">106-109</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:07</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">106-109</td><td valign="top">James Posey misses free throw 1 of 2</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:07</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">106-109</td><td valign="top">Miami offensive rebound</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:07</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">106-110</td><td valign="top">*James Posey makes free throw 2 of 2*</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:07</td><td colspan="3" align="center">*Chicago full timeout*</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:02</td><td valign="top">Malik Allen misses 20-foot jumper</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">106-110</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:01</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">106-110</td><td valign="top">Antoine Walker defensive rebound</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:01</td><td valign="top">Chris Duhon personal foul (Antoine Walker draws the foul)</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">106-110</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:01</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">106-111</td><td valign="top">*Antoine Walker makes free throw 1 of 2*</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:01</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">106-111</td><td valign="top">Antoine Walker misses free throw 2 of 2</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:00</td><td valign="top">Andres Nocioni defensive rebound</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">106-111</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:00</td><td colspan="3" align="center">*End of the 4th Quarter*</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:00</td><td colspan="3" align="center">*End Game*</td></tr></tbody> </table>


----------



## Aurelino

mizenkay said:


> *Currently Active Users*
> 
> 
> 61 (34 members & *27 guests*)
> 
> mizenkay*, A Seal Clubber*, Aurelino, bbertha37*, Brian, CiMa, Darius Miles Davis, Dark Praetor, deranged40, HinrichFan12, italianBBlover, jnrjr79, JRose5*, kirkisgod, McBulls, Nocioni, r1terrell23, RagingBulls316*, remlover, Shabadoo, sloth, Smockgirl, SPMJ, taurus515th, The Krakken*, The ROY*, thom_york, TripleDouble, TRUTHHURTS, TwinkieTowers, UMfan83, victor_vc, Wynn, YearofDaBulls
> 
> 
> *group hug!*
> 
> 
> i have a hard time dumping on kirk and noc this game, i really do. noc with a double double and kirk kept the bulls in the game in the third. ben, of course, was magnificent. if deng shows up (get over those butterflies!) and tyson gets his mind on the game, we will be ok. bulls did not quit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and yes, if the bulls had a decent frontcourt.....
> 
> :thinking:


The Bulls need to find a way to score inside. They hit too many jumpers, and fortunately for them, they made 13/26 three-pointers, but they cannot rely on that happening throughout the series. Also, down the stretch they made some questionable decisions. If they can get more output from Deng and Chandler, this will be a very tough series for Miami.


----------



## TripleDouble

Now that some of the frustration has subsided, I will commend this team for answering every run the Heat made. They really have been playing ballsy ball lately.


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## mizenkay

scott skiles postgame coming up next on NBA TV.


----------



## ChiBron

Once we got that 4 point lead with abt 6 mins. to play we just went away from Ben. Inexcusable. Kirk began to overdribble and Noce was making constant mistakes until he hit a couple of baskets late.


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## TripleDouble

Aurelino said:


> The Bulls need to find a way to score inside. They hit too many jumpers, and fortunately for them, they made 13/26 three-pointers, but they cannot rely on that happening throughout the series. Also, down the stretch they made some questionable decisions. If they can get more output from Deng and Chandler, this will be a very tough series for Miami.


Deng needs to attack the basket. But they're not a inside oriented team. That said, they should win when they score 106 points.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

TripleDouble said:


> Now that some of the frustration has subsided, I will commend this team for answering every run the Heat made. They really have been playing ballsy ball lately.


Yes; the Bulls have balls. The Red Bull, despite a couple of rookie-type mistakes at the end, has huge Balls.


----------



## El Chapu

Its hard for Deng to be a factor if he is another cheerleader on the bench.


----------



## lgtwins

mizenkay said:


> all right, all right....
> 
> *it's alway's kirk's fault. we get it!!!*
> 
> 
> :whatever:


Sorry, Miz. As good as Noc and Kirk were today, their play and execution last 4 minutes is unexcusable. They both are better players than what they have shown down the stretch. So I am disappointed. (not blaming them at all).

Everybody played their hearts out and I am proud of their efforts BUT ....


----------



## Wynn

El Chapu said:


> Its hard for Deng to be a factor if he is another cheerleader on the bench.


They let the cheerleaders play 22 minutes?

Wow!


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## TwinkieTowers

I think Skiles decided to limit Deng's minutes after he started jacking threes.


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## BG7

Yeah, come on guys. Yeah, Kirk and Nocioni didn't play as good as they were at the end of the regular season during that stretch, but they didn't play awful, and its just one game. Deng didn't show up at all, and either did Chandler. I think Skiles didn't play Sweetney enough, Sweetney kept Shaq out of the lane since Sweetney probaly matches Shaq pound for pound, and it was just unlucky that Shaq stepped up and made the shots from outside the paint. Also I liked how Sweetney attacked Shaq. The collapse was in the 4th quarter as a team, we stopped playing the stellar team defense that allowed us to shut down D-Wade, and we let him get the lane, and like I said, when Wade gets in the lane, he is unstoppable. Wade looked pretty bad, that doesn't look like a cramp to me. Walker and Williams did good things today, we just didn't execute down the end, mostly Nocioni and Hinrich imo, but oh well. Get ready for game 2, and win that one. The Heat are the #2 seed for a reason, but we aren't the typical folding chair #7 seed. Heat are a substantially better home team than away team. So lets win this one, than take 2 in Chicago and go from them.

Go Bulls!


----------



## The Krakken

SPMJ said:


> Once we got that 4 point lead with abt 6 mins. to play we just went away from Ben. Inexcusable. Kirk began to overdribble and Noce was making constant mistakes until he hit a couple of baskets late.


In the case of Nocioni, the boneheaded plays began BEFORE that.


----------



## ChiBron

El Chapu said:


> Its hard for Deng to be a factor if he is another cheerleader on the bench.


Thank You. Why was he on the BENCH so much? Only 21 minutes. 2-4 FG and 1 foul. Not like he was struggling when on the floor. I would've rather seen us go small w/ Allen, Noce, Deng, Ben and Kirk then see TC on the court.


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## step

> I think Skiles decided to limit Deng's minutes after he started jacking threes.


And the fact that he was pretty much generally useless tonight.


----------



## MikeDC

Man, that was a crummy ending that showed our relative inexperience. It'll be important to for the Bulls to keep their heads up heading into the next game. Typically that's not a problem for us, but it's especially important now.

If anything, we have to keep up the pressure and the tempo. I don't know if the Heat can continue to play as hard as they did tonight without breaking down. Keep pressing them, making them run, and hope they break down. Keep trying to take Shaq out of the game.

We did pretty much everything right tonight tactically. Well, except Deng. I would have liked to see him get a little more of a shot. He jacks a couple shots he shouldn't have, but he made a few good things happen too, especially on the boards. The cards weren't there at the end, but we were in the right position. Don't see how much more we can do that that, except make better decisions in those crucial moments.


----------



## DaBullz

Here's the scoop on the Nocioni play with 15 left.

It takes 3 to tie it. Two posessions to win, if you go for a 2.

If Noc doesn't shoot that ball right away, they'd foul him and give him 2 FTs.

If he does anything else, tic toc the clock runs down and Miami has the choice to foul any 2pt shooter (or not if it's a difficult shot).

Even though he did miss the shot, the Bulls had TWO more posessions.


----------



## spongyfungy

You know, if it wasn't for Kirk's third quarter shooting, I don't think the Bulls would have been this close. If you expected Kirk to be a consistent shooter, you haven't seen him at all this year. He's a streaky shooter. 

It was out of character the way Kirk made bad decisions. He hasn't seen that intense defense in probably a few weeks. he was in no man's land a few times and the execution was poor.

I'm looking forward to a much more controlled game by him. Hopefully any jitters he has, he can shake it off.

Deng looked really nervous out there. Much was made that this was his first playoff game. He's a young kid and Skiles just said that hopefully he can get settled in and play better.


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## The Krakken

sloth said:


> Yeah, come on guys. Yeah, Kirk and Nocioni didn't play as good as they were at the end of the regular season during that stretch, but they didn't play awful, and its just one game.


I believe Lebron James said it best tonight. EVERY posession counts. ANd it isn't just one game, its one PLAYOFF game. We don't get 81 more of these to turn it around.


----------



## superdave

Great game to watch and yes frustrating at the same time too. Not sure why some are hating on Noch. 18 points, 16 rebounds, 2 TOs. I think him sealing the board kept us in this game, sheesh. Big help block on Wade in the 4th. Drew 2 or 3 offensive fouls.

What pissed me off (like everyone) was Gordon not getting enough touches w/in the last 2 minutes. Not sure who to blame there.

I'm proud of the Bulls, they answered every run. A few adjustments and we can make this series really close.


----------



## step

+rep Mikedc


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## TwinkieTowers

You know what I realize? With so many of us complaining how horrible so-and-so didn't execute down the stretch, it means that many of us think that the Bulls have a very good chance of winning the series. So, I commend all of you who have complained in these post-game posts. It means that we don't think the Heat are the superior team.


----------



## Aurelino

TripleDouble said:


> Deng needs to attack the basket. But they're not a inside oriented team. That said, they should win when they score 106 points.


That's true, but on occasions when Gordon tried to attack the rim, he was successful, and I thought in the 4th, Hinrich had some opportunies to go for a layup or a short jumper, but he brought the ball back outside. Deng also needs to be more involved in the offense.


----------



## Bulls96

We played a good game and I do believe we made Heat burn tooooooo much energy from the old Shaq. Second game Shaq will be less active and we will have our chance to win…plus Wade had problems making his shots (so we need continues taking
away his driving lanes).

Again, I am very happy that we competed and were very close to win. 

P.S. BTW, Bill Walton is an official AHole…am I wrong?


----------



## DaBullz

90 (42 members & 48 guests)

*DaBullz*, *Aurelino*, Babble-On, bbertha37*, Blueoak, bre9, Bulls96, BullsAttitude, charlietyra*, *Darius Miles Davis*, DengNabbit, El Chapu, european, Frankensteiner, H.O.V.A., *jbulls*, jordanwasprettygood, KHinrich12, lgtwins*, lougehrig, maradro, *McBulls*, mg06*, *Mikedc*, *mizenkay**, nanokooshball, r1terrell23, remlover, *RSP83*, sloth, SPMJ, *spongyfungy*, *step*, *superdave*, *T.Shock*, The Krakken*, *tone wone*, TripleDouble, *truebluefan**, TwinkieTowers, UMfan83, *Wynn*


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## DaBullz

Bulls96 said:


> P.S. BTW, Bill Walton is an official AHole…am I wrong?


It's a combination of being a very tall white guy and a fan of the grateful dead.


----------



## step

I didn't mind Bill Walton, even if he does say some stupid stuff.
"Shrinkage"


----------



## TripleDouble

Bulls96 said:


> We played a good game and I do believe we made Heat burn tooooooo much energy from the old Shaq. Second game Shaq will be less active and we will have our chance to win…plus Wade had problems making his shots (so we need continues taking
> away his driving lanes).
> 
> Again, I am very happy that we competed and were very close to win.
> 
> P.S. BTW, Bill Walton is an official AHole…am I wrong?


Watch the game on ESPN 2. Pippen is totally pulling for the Bulls.


----------



## Wynn

Mikedc said:


> Man, that was a crummy ending that showed our relative inexperience. It'll be important to for the Bulls to keep their heads up heading into the next game. Typically that's not a problem for us, but it's especially important now.
> 
> If anything, we have to keep up the pressure and the tempo. I don't know if the Heat can continue to play as hard as they did tonight without breaking down. Keep pressing them, making them run, and hope they break down. Keep trying to take Shaq out of the game.
> 
> We did pretty much everything right tonight tactically. Excellent game by Skiles. The cards weren't there at the end, but we were in the right position. Don't see how much more we can do that that, except make better decisions in those crucial moments.


Nice post.

Skiles seemed to be using the strategy I was hoping against Shaq early -- go at him on the offensive end to get him in foul trouble. Problem is that the refs have to cooperate. Shaq got a ton of blocks from it, but I still think it's the right strategy. Unfortunately, I think we went away from it too soon. Had we stuck with it, Shaq would have been a non-factor before the end of Q3 and Tyson would have been able to stay in right when he was finally starting to look useful. I think having Tyson for all of Q4 would have made a big difference in the outcome. Am disappointed we weren't using more of our bench fouls on Shaq, he won't always hit his FTs like he did tonight, and it's obvious from this game that we'll be in foul trouble throughout the series anyway.

The big fella is gonna be hurtin' when this series is over, regardles of the outcome.


----------



## mizenkay

ben just said in his post game that the play was designed for nocioni.


----------



## Frankensteiner

Here's my question: do people really believe that Hinrich just stopped "looking" for Gordon in the last 5-6 minutes after passing to him throughout the entire game up to that point. Really? If so, why would he do that?


----------



## Bulls96

DaBullz said:


> It's a combination of being a very tall white guy and a fan of the grateful dead.


Thank you pal ...you are always so accurate in your judgments


----------



## BullsAttitude

I haven't seen anyone mention it yet but I believe the story has been the same all year and the second time against the Heat, Free Throws.

Bulls 13-17
Heat 32-39

That's a 19 point difference and a 22 shot difference. We lose by 5 points and they had to outscore us at the line by almost 20 to win the game. Remember the 1 point loss in Chicago, Miami had 20 more free throws than the Bulls that game.

I think the reason Gordon didn't get the ball was the Heat put a bigger body, Shannon Anderson, on him and he had trouble scoring like he was after that. 

Are the Heat a more talented team than us, yes. A better team, yes. A superior team, don't believe so. A harder working team, not a chance in HELL! The series will be close and if the Bulls can cut back on the fouls, anything is possible.

GO BULLS!!!!!


----------



## DaBullz

Frankensteiner said:


> Here's my question: do people really believe that Hinrich just stopped "looking" for Gordon in the last 5-6 minutes after passing to him throughout the entire game up to that point. Really? If so, why would he do that?


When it's last shot time and everyone in the building knows it's going to Ben and the opposing coach even has a timeout to tell his team how to defend him, he gets the ball.

Mmmmmaybe on one possession you might be able to deny a guy the ball, but for 5-6 minutes? Unlikely.


----------



## Wynn

Frankensteiner said:


> Here's my question: do people really believe that Hinrich just stopped "looking" for Gordon in the last 5-6 minutes after passing to him throughout the entire game up to that point. Really? If so, why would he do that?


hehehe....

.......to quote the man himself: "for whatever reason".

Doesn't Kirk say this way too often?


----------



## www.sportsinferno.com

yeah well a FT difference like that is probably going to happen alot when you guys are playing the Heat. With Shaq and Wade they have two guys that draw a lot of fouls and really other than Gordon (who doesnt get nearly the calls on a regular basis that Shaq or Wade do) you have nobody to generate FT's


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## Frankensteiner

DaBullz said:


> When it's last shot time and everyone in the building knows it's going to Ben and the opposing coach even has a timeout to tell his team how to defend him, he gets the ball.
> 
> Mmmmmaybe on one possession you might be able to deny a guy the ball, but for 5-6 minutes? Unlikely.


What about the "why" part?


----------



## HKF

The play was designed for Nocioni? :whofarted


----------



## The Krakken

mizenkay said:


> ben just said in his post game that the play was designed for nocioni.


Adding more fuel to the "skiles is an idiot" club. :curse:


----------



## The Krakken

BullsAttitude said:


> I haven't seen anyone mention it yet but I believe the story has been the same all year and the second time against the Heat, Free Throws.
> 
> Bulls 13-17
> Heat 32-39
> 
> That's a 19 point difference and a 22 shot difference. We lose by 5 points and they had to outscore us at the line by almost 20 to win the game. Remember the 1 point loss in Chicago, Miami had 20 more free throws than the Bulls that game.
> 
> I think the reason Gordon didn't get the ball was the Heat put a bigger body, Shannon Anderson, on him and he had trouble scoring like he was after that.


No he didn't. He wasn't scottie pippen out there. Ben Gordon had 9 points in the 4th quarter DESPITE NOT touching the ball for more than 6 minutes.


----------



## IbizaXL

www.sportsinferno.com said:


> yeah well a FT difference like that is probably going to happen alot when you guys are playing the Heat. With Shaq and Wade they have two guys that draw a lot of fouls and really other than Gordon (who doesnt get nearly the calls on a regular basis that Shaq or Wade do) you have nobody to generate FT's


exactly, the Bulls are a perimeter team. theyre 3 point shooting kept them in the game. Thats ok, i dont think this team will be that hot again next game.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

I have to commend Antoine Walker for stepping up defensively.

Kirk still had 19 points and 8 assists. I believe all the Bulls on the floor choked up in the final minutes, hence, why Kirk was dribbling so much, because the whole team (including Kirk) weren't executing the plays and getting open. Give credit to the Heat defense, too.

Ben is still a spot-up three point shooter. He has star written all over him, but you have to realize that he hasn't fully developed the ability to create his own shot and needs a screener to shoot the three off the dribble. That's the reason you can't just "give the ball to Ben". Most of his shots are within the offense and not him playing one-on-one like Kobe, Lebron, Dwyane, Gilbert, AI can do.


----------



## BG7

Based on this game, it is best for the Bulls not to call timeouts during the stretch, run it down the court like normal so Ben Gordon has a chance to get the ball, in the halfcourt, the court is suddenly a lot less wide open, and the Heat have 5 guys to defend 4 guys, put that together....so I think from here on out, take it down the court so we don't have sloppy inbound plays where Ben is covered.


----------



## superdave

The Krakken said:


> Adding more fuel to the "skiles is an idiot" club. :curse:


LOL. The Bulls are well coached. Period.


----------



## Bulls96

sloth said:


> Based on this game, it is best for the Bulls not to call timeouts during the stretch, run it down the court like normal so Ben Gordon has a chance to get the ball, in the halfcourt, the court is suddenly a lot less wide open, and the Heat have 5 guys to defend 4 guys, put that together....so I think from here on out, take it down the court so we don't have sloppy inbound plays where Ben is covered.


Very good observation!


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Gio305 said:


> exactly, the Bulls are a perimeter team. theyre 3 point shooting kept them in the game. Thats ok, i dont think this team will be that hot again next game.


And I don't think the Heat will be that hot again next time either. The Heat shot 48% from the field for the game after shooting like what, 62% at halftime? Don't underestimate the Bulls' ability.


----------



## BG7

And I don't think the Bulls will be playing that poor of defense again.

I don't think the Bulls will execute as poorly down the stretch as this game.

I don't think Tyson Chandler will play this poorly again.

I don't think Luol Deng will be a nonfactor again.

I don't think Shaq makes that many shots outside of the paint again.


----------



## Bulls96

TwinkieTowers said:


> I have to commend Antoine Walker for stepping up defensively...


Yep, Antoine Walker was great today. I've never seen him playing with such determination.


----------



## maswe12

BullsAttitude said:


> I haven't seen anyone mention it yet but I believe the story has been the same all year and the second time against the Heat, Free Throws.
> 
> Bulls 13-17
> Heat 32-39
> 
> That's a 19 point difference and a 22 shot difference. We lose by 5 points and they had to outscore us at the line by almost 20 to win the game. Remember the 1 point loss in Chicago, Miami had 20 more free throws than the Bulls that game.
> 
> I think the reason Gordon didn't get the ball was the Heat put a bigger body, Shannon Anderson, on him and he had trouble scoring like he was after that.
> 
> Are the Heat a more talented team than us, yes. A better team, yes. A superior team, don't believe so. A harder working team, not a chance in HELL! The series will be close and if the Bulls can cut back on the fouls, anything is possible.
> 
> GO BULLS!!!!!



You guys definitly are the exact opposite of the heat. Young, athletic and you work hard every second of the game. Easy team to root for... I dont get how the heat can be a better team but not a superior team though :biggrin:


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

HKF said:


> The play was designed for Nocioni? :whofarted


Why not?

He was hitting long and in the mid range consistently all the way through the game 

Classic ruse and a calculated risk 

I didn't believe atthe time that they didn't execute the play - I believed it was the play and I didn't think the look was that bad as Walton suggested . It went in and out and had it went in pressure is all back on the Heat with what 14 seconds to play ?

I liked the play - it didn't work out but hey that's ball


----------



## remlover

*Red Alert!!!
*
Blame Game Is Now In Progress!!!!


----------



## lgtwins

The reason I was frustrated is that on paper we are certainly inferior team to Heat. But I believe we have a chance to win the series. Even so it will be pretty close game to the end and we had a very good chance to win tonight. That is why last 3 minutes or so was such a huge disappointment.


----------



## IbizaXL

TwinkieTowers said:


> And I don't think the Heat will be that hot again next time either. The Heat shot 48% from the field for the game after shooting like what, 62% at halftime? Don't underestimate the Bulls' ability.


im not underestimating anything, im just saying they wont be as hot shooting those 3 next game IMO


----------



## LuolDeng

sloth said:


> And I don't think the Bulls will be playing that poor of defense again.
> 
> I don't think the Bulls will execute as poorly down the stretch as this game.
> 
> I don't think Tyson Chandler will play this poorly again.
> 
> I don't think Luol Deng will be a nonfactor again.
> 
> I don't think Shaq makes that many shots outside of the paint again.


I don't think the Bulls will shoot 50% from 3 again.


----------



## El Chapu

HKF said:


> The play was designed for Nocioni? :whofarted


It wasnt the first time and it wont be the last.


----------



## El Chapu

Walker was great 2night? I think I watched a whole different game!


----------



## TwinkieTowers

As worthless as Tyson is most of the time, do any of you guys realize that when Tyson fouls out the Bulls fall apart in the clutch? Remember that Sacremento game when the Bulls led by 5 with two minutes left and Tyson fouled out; the Kings ended up winning that game. Tyson was also still in the game against the last game against the Wizards and the Bulls executed pretty well until he fouled out and Sweetney almost screwed it up for them. It may be coincidental, but I think Tyson provides a "veteran" presence in clutch situations.

I also like to add that the early fourth quarter comeback tonight was sparked by Tyson's play (complemented by Ben's scoring).


----------



## IbizaXL

KHinrich12 said:


> I don't think the Bulls will shoot 50% from 3 again.


thats exactly what im trying to say....damn.....did they really shoot 50%? ****!


----------



## superdave

KHinrich12 said:


> I don't think the Bulls will shoot 50% from 3 again.


Gordon shoots a shade under 44% and Noch around 40% for the season. Its not unlikely it happens again.


----------



## LuolDeng

superdave said:


> Gordon shoots a shade under 44% and Noch around 40% for the season. Its not unlikely it happens again.


We still shot it 15% over our season average.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

El Chapu said:


> Walker was great 2night? I think I watched a whole different game!


He was intangibly great. The type of play Skiles would commend.


----------



## BG7

We shot 38% on the season, not exactly slouching. We could easily hit 50% again in the series.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Not exactly slouching is also fifth in the league.

The Bulls' halfcourt offense is starting to look a lot like the Suns'.


----------



## Frankensteiner

remlover said:


> *Red Alert!!!
> *
> Blame Game Is Now In Progress!!!!


Blame Game is in progress after every loss. It's the same targets each time: Skiles, Hinrich, Noc, and Chandler. Rinse and repeat.


----------



## El Chapu

Frankensteiner said:


> Blame Game is in progress after every loss. It's the same targets each time: Skiles, Hinrich, Noc, and Chandler. Rinse and repeat.


Here, Here: We have a winner....


----------



## The Krakken

El Chapu said:


> It wasnt the first time and it wont be the last.


Which scares me, since I'm still waiting for it to work even once.


----------



## TRUTHHURTS

TwinkieTowers said:


> I have to commend Antoine Walker for stepping up defensively.
> 
> Kirk still had 19 points and 8 assists. I believe all the Bulls on the floor choked up in the final minutes, hence, why Kirk was dribbling so much, because the whole team (including Kirk) weren't executing the plays and getting open. Give credit to the Heat defense, too.
> 
> *Ben is still a spot-up three point shooter. He has star written all over him, but you have to realize that he hasn't fully developed the ability to create his own shot and needs a screener to shoot the three off the dribble. That's the reason you can't just "give the ball to Ben". Most of his shots are within the offense and not him playing one-on-one like Kobe, Lebron, Dwyane, Gilbert, AI can do.*


Ben is quite sufficient enough to create his own shot off the screen and roll at the very least you put the ball in his hands and allow him top make the play whether it be to shoot or pass but at least the ball makes it to his hands .Also you know you at least will get a good shot out of it because they will double him .


----------



## Wynn

KHinrich12 said:


> We still shot it 15% over our season average.


50% - 37.9% = 15%

Gotta love the new math.

Granted that we did shoot above our average.


----------



## spongyfungy

If a guy can go 9-9 in three-pointers, why not expect a high percentage.

And if we're going by percentages, I don't expect Shaq to go 63% from the line or 69% from the field. I hope they do a bit more hack a shaq.

I couldn't believe how far out the guy went to defend though And he was a monster on both ends and that really surprised me. Pip and Greg Anthony said that Shaq will wear down but I don't see it this series, maybe the following series but he just may have enough gas which would be a shame.


----------



## The Krakken

Frankensteiner said:


> Blame Game is in progress after every loss. It's the same targets each time: Skiles, Hinrich, Noc, and Chandler. Rinse and repeat.



:laugh: :laugh:

At least we didn't have a pargo sighting, eh??


----------



## Wynn

The Krakken said:


> :laugh: :laugh:
> 
> At least we didn't have a pargo sighting, eh??


Darn it, we lost because Pargo didn't play!


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

The game pretty much panned out as expected for me 

Tactically both teams were guided very well by Riley and Skiles

We got done by a veteran team and our inexperience showed through at critical times 

The defining point of the game was Haslem's ejection 

To that point we were playing our game and in a very controlled way 
it was their loss , their issue , yet , we were the ones that had the emotion of the moment used against us.Forced poor shots by Kirk , Ben and Malik ( I think ) that led to not one but a few easy transition buckets that opened up that big cushion that pushed out to a 12 point 

Huge guts by these Bulls and you have to love their fight - I liked that Ben staretd attacking the bucket more when he put us in the lead but he diverged from what was working and Miami got some stops and got some momentum back and then we got a bit rattled again when Wade just took it over ON BOTH ENDS ... Payton and Wade had great pressure on Kirk at the end and forced him into a few possesions where he overdribbled which in turn seemed to make it worse for everyone else who could not find position or rythym in the offense ..which led to Kirk dribbling some more

But Kirk deserves some credit . He's a guts player and ignited in the 3rd to pull us back in and after Ben was taken out after the 8 minute mark in the 4th or whatever ..Kirk came up with some nice clutch baskets 

Give credit to James Posey too who I thought had a great game 

We just lacked composure at defining moments but yet we were right there

There is a lot to be encouraged by in this loss - and this team being what it is will learn from that and take it on board 

Too bad Kirk and Chris couldn't find a way to get Luol going more and also get Ben's momentum moving better and further at the end of the 4th - but particularly the Luol factor . Not sure what was going on there but we missed him tonight


----------



## El Chapu

The Krakken said:


> Which scares me, since I'm still waiting for it to work even once.


It worked more than once. I remember, for example, having him hitting a short one handed jumper to beat the halftime buzzer. 

And even if he misses his attempt, it was a valuable possesion due to his play during the past quarters. He isnt there trying only to put the ball in the basket.


----------



## The Krakken

TwinkieTowers said:


> Ben is still a spot-up three point shooter. He has star written all over him, but you have to realize that he hasn't fully developed the ability to create his own shot and needs a screener to shoot the three off the dribble. That's the reason you can't just "give the ball to Ben". Most of his shots are within the offense and not him playing one-on-one like Kobe, Lebron, Dwyane, Gilbert, AI can do.


HUH??? Just ask the Knicks. :laugh:


----------



## maswe12

sloth said:


> We shot 38% on the season, not exactly slouching. We could easily hit 50% again in the series.


Yeah but you guys hit 50% and lost the game...more games at the average and thats 3 less 3 pointers and a 9 pt deeper hole. This game was there to be stolen for the bulls...great shooting, great intensity, great game from gordon, no zo or udonis...But the play in the last 5 minutes was pretty shaky though. AND its tough to beat a heat team when wade wants to take over.


----------



## Wynn

The Krakken said:


> HUH??? Just ask the Knicks. :laugh:


Not sure I'd trust the Knick to give me the correct answer on ANY basketball related question!


----------



## The Krakken

El Chapu said:


> It worked more than once. I remember, for example, having him hitting a short one handed jumper to beat the halftime buzzer.
> 
> And even if he misses his attempt, it was a valuable possesion due to his play during the past quarters. He isnt there trying only to put the ball in the basket.


WOW! :nonono:


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Wynn said:


> Not sure I'd trust the Knick to give me the correct answer on ANY basketball related question!


I would ask them about 18th Century fashion.


----------



## The Krakken

Wynn said:


> Not sure I'd trust the Knick to give me the correct answer on ANY basketball related question!


Except, how to get fleeced by the bulls. :laugh:

The knicks have personally financed our ascension to the top. :biggrin:


----------



## PC Load Letter

Jesus, people, it's not that tough to pinpoint what cost us the game tonight. 

1. Ben hardly got the ball in the final minutes and, in turn, hardly scored. Some of that was a good job defensively by the Heat, some of it was our lack of smarts late. The bottom line is our best guy to have the ball late in an important game DIDN'T.
2. Kirk was great for most of the 2nd half, but had a couple huge turnovers late and made some uncharacterisically dumb decisions. You can't have the guy who has the ball in his hands the most make those mistakes against a team like the Heat and expect to win. That's not blaming Kirk for the sake of blaming Kirk, that's pointing exactly what happened. Anyone who argues this watched a different game than I did.
3. Noch was also huge for us all game long, but that was a ridiculously horrible shot, not because he wasn't open or it wasn't a good look, but because he's not the ideal guy you want taking a shot like that and he completely rushed it on top of it. How anyone can argue differently is beyond me. Would we have been in this game without Noch's play the first 47:42? No. But, that doesn't change the fact that it was a bad shot, plain and simple.
3a. If, indeed, Skiles called the play to be executed just like that, the blame's on him. For as much as Noch gives us, he would have been about the third or fourth option for me in that situation.
4. Deng was virtually invisible, but the biggest reason for that is he only played 21 minutes. You can't expect him to do much more than he did in limited playing time. He took 4 shots and made 2 (granted, he did miss a couple FTs). That's nothing to get excited about either way.

I really don't know what there is to argue about after this game; it seems pretty clear cut. We just have to hope we're in a position like this again on Monday and execute better. The pessimist in me feels we let our one golden opportunity slip away tonight, but you never know. It's heartbreaking.


----------



## DaBullz

PC Load Letter said:


> Jesus, people, it's not that tough to pinpoint what cost us the game tonight.
> 
> 3. Noch was also huge for us all game long, but that was a ridiculously horrible shot, not because he wasn't open or it wasn't a good look, but because he's not the ideal guy you want taking a shot like that and he completely rushed it on top of it. How anyone can argue differently is beyond me. Would we have been in this game without Noch's play the first 47:42? No. But, that doesn't change the fact that it was a bad shot, plain and simple.
> 3a. If, indeed, Skiles called the play to be executed just like that, the blame's on him. For as much as Noch gives us, he would have been about the third or fourth option for me in that situation.


My take on it



DaBullz said:


> Here's the scoop on the Nocioni play with 15 left.
> 
> It takes 3 to tie it. Two posessions to win, if you go for a 2.
> 
> If Noc doesn't shoot that ball right away, they'd foul him and give him 2 FTs.
> 
> If he does anything else, tic toc the clock runs down and Miami has the choice to foul any 2pt shooter (or not if it's a difficult shot).
> 
> Even though he did miss the shot, the Bulls had TWO more posessions.


King's take is that Nocioni missed the shot by a bees dick


----------



## Wynn

maswe12 said:


> ...AND its tough to beat a heat team when wade wants to take over.


Especially when the guy who has been quite effective in slowing Wade for the entire game (season?!) has to back off his defense because he's carrying 4 fouls through the entire fourth quarter. Fouls which, for the most part, are gift wrapped by tonight's refereeing crew.

I can't believe I actually saw posts where Miami fans were complaining about the refs! The Heats attempted 22 more FTs than the Bull. 22 more! ...and won by 5 points. Ouch.


----------



## Wynn

DaBullz said:


> My take on it
> 
> 
> 
> King's take is that Nocioni missed the shot by a bees dick


...and a queen bee's, at that!


----------



## BG7

Yeah, that last play was designed for Nocioni, but not designed for Nocioni. Didn't both ben and Kirk cut accross, but they were simply covered. Looking at it again on replay, it wasn't really that bad of a shot, he had an open look, it was pretty much the same as him shooting a wide open three there, he just didn't aim quite right, not too bad looking back at it.


----------



## Frankensteiner

Wynn said:


> Darn it, we lost because Pargo didn't play!


The right way way to phrase your complaint would be "Skiles didn't play Pargo nearly enough." That way we make clear Skiles is the one to blame.


----------



## El Chapu

PC Load Letter said:


> 3. Noch was also huge for us all game long, but that was a ridiculously horrible shot, not because he wasn't open or it wasn't a good look, but because he's not the ideal guy you want taking a shot like that and he completely rushed it on top of it. How anyone can argue differently is beyond me. Would we have been in this game without Noch's play the first 47:42? No. But, that doesn't change the fact that it was a bad shot, plain and simple.


You are contradicting yourself: he was open, with a good look, but was a terrible shot? One shot isnt terrible because the one taking it "isnt the ideal guy". If not, every shot would be terrible unless the one taking it is Gordon for the Bulls, and so on. 

Nocioni improved a lot his outside shooting, so if he was open it wasnt a terrible shot. Before that attempt, he made one as well from the top of the arc, left side. 

Let me say I didnt catch that "terrible" shot by Nocioni, but if he was open, good look included, then I dont see why it was a terrible attempt. Gordon cant take every shot for the Bulls.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Once again, I said Ben will be a star to make sure none you guys think I'm a Ben-hater, but when's the last time you saw Ben shoot a fadeaway jumper? He doesn't have a quick release like Ray Allen or Michael Redd, who don't really have fadeaways in their repertoire, and every jumpshot he takes he jumps forward, which means jumping towards the defender. I expect him to work on a fadeaway in the offseason if he wants to remain being a shooting guard.


----------



## spongyfungy

Can you really take that quote from Ben for face value.

We're talking about one of the most paranoid coaches in the league who will not give anything that's remotely looks like it'll give a competitive edge to the other team. A coach who won't show practices to the media except once or twice a year. Who won't reveal the starting lineup until gametime, who wouldn't even say what kinds of plays he will run when he was first introduced to the Bulls and actually got defensive.

And all of a sudden he would let his players talk about the game tying play that didn't work and reveal who it was designed for to the team that we will play at least 3 more times consecutively?


----------



## DaBullz

El Chapu said:


> You are contradicting yourself: he was open, with a good look, but was a terrible shot? One shot isnt terrible because the one taking it "isnt the ideal guy". If not, every shot would be terrible unless the one taking it is Gordon for the Bulls, and so on.
> 
> Nocioni improved a lot his outside shooting, so if he was open it wasnt a terrible shot. Before that attempt, he made one as well from the top of the arc, left side.
> 
> Let me say I didnt catch that "terrible" shot by Nocioni, but if he was open, good look included, then I dont see why it was a terrible attempt. Gordon cant take every shot for the Bulls.


Nocioni was leading the league in 3pt %. Since then, he dropped to 34th in the league. His % went from > 50% down to 39%.

That's an indication that he cooled off a LOT from 3pt terroritory over the 2nd part of the season.

EDIT: 

he shot 30.6% in April


----------



## maswe12

Wynn said:


> Especially when the guy who has been quite effective in slowing Wade for the entire game (season?!) has to back off his defense because he's carrying 4 fouls through the entire fourth quarter. Fouls which, for the most part, are gift wrapped by tonight's refereeing crew.
> 
> I can't believe I actually saw posts where Miami fans were complaining about the refs! The Heats attempted 22 more FTs than the Bull. 22 more! ...and won by 5 points. Ouch.


you serious...the bulsl were lucky to get 15 FTs...with all the jumpers they take. You dont get an even number of FTs if you keep out of the paint like its the plague. Shaq had 2 or 3 really bad calls against him, one time where the defender drew an offensive foul from at least a foot inside the circle...then wade was getting hammered all first half without calls. He did get a gimme call against malik allen in the 4 though. Nocioni drew some charges with his feet still moving. Shaq only had 8 fts against a team that wanted to foul him more...NBA officials are the worst in sports, and i certainly didnt think that the bulls got the short end of the stick tonight.


----------



## El Chapu

DaBullz said:


> Nocioni was leading the league in 3pt %. Since then, he dropped to 34th in the league. His % went from > 50% down to 39%.
> 
> That's an indication that he cooled off a LOT from 3pt terroritory over the 2nd part of the season.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> he shot 30.6% in April


34th in the league? I will take an open shot from that guy. I wouldnt call an open 3 pointer by that 34th ranked player as terrible.


----------



## DaBullz

El Chapu said:


> 34th in the league? I will take an open shot from that guy. I wouldnt call an open 3 pointer by that 34th ranked player as terrible.


Gordon was 6th in the league.

*shrug*


----------



## Wynn

maswe12 said:


> you serious...the bulsl were lucky to get 15 FTs...with all the jumpers they take. You dont get an even number of FTs if you keep out of the paint like its the plague.


Of course you learn to stay out of the paint if every time Shaq mauls you it is called a block or an offensive foul instead of a defensive foul on the big fella. At least when we were getting the benefit of Jordan's calls, fans of the Bull were willing to acknowledge a certain amount of star treatment. Complaining about the refs when your team shoots *22 more FTs in the game* just shouldn't be allowed!


----------



## ChiBron

That last play SHOULD have been designed for Ben. Anybody disagree? Uh, no.

End of story.


----------



## Wynn

SPMJ said:


> That last play SHOULD have been designed for Ben. Anybody disagree? Uh, no.
> 
> End of story.


Last play SHOULD have been designed for Rip Hamilton, as he led the league in 3P%. Unfortunately, Rip was as unavailable as Ben...


----------



## The Krakken

SPMJ said:


> That last play SHOULD have been designed for Ben. Anybody disagree? Uh, no.
> 
> End of story.


EL Chapu does.

:laugh:


----------



## El Chapu

DaBullz said:


> Gordon was 6th in the league.
> 
> *shrug*


So? You are not making any sense. You are arguing that one man should take every shot possible. I do agree that Gordon should have gotten the ball a lot more down the stretch, but labelling as terrible any ***OPEN 3 POINTER*** by Noc, or Hinrich, is silly.


----------



## PowerWoofer

You know what I hate about this situation? I feel like no matter how good these guys get, we'll ALWAYS have to play guys like Wade and Lebron if we want to get to the Finals. This is the exact same thing like in the 90s with Jordan. It didn't matter how good guys like Ewing, Miller, Malone, Stockton and a million other guys were, there was always another player better then them (Jordan). Fortunately for us, he played for the Bulls. Now every other team is taking their revenge on us for what Jordan did. The Heat is the next in line on a long list of teams that have better talent than the Bulls.

You know what else, I have a bad feeling this team is going to be doomed for the next 10 years to being a team that has a ton of heart, but can't win important games. This was arguably our easiest chance to win a game against Miami, and we lost it. Why? Because Miami has GREAT players in Wade and Shaq. And you know what, I have a feeling that in 5 years when all our guys are in their primes, we're still going to get our asses kicked by guys like Wade in the most important games of the year.

And do you know how bad that makes me feel? To know we're probably doomed for the next 10 or so years?

I'll say one thing: Pax better make some great moves this offseason, because if he doesn't, this club isn't going anywhere far ANYTIME soon. This summer is our chance to become a great team by getting some talent. If we don't, we're done. Might as well not even try, because there will always be bigger and better players out there. It sucks to say that, but it's true.


----------



## The Krakken

El Chapu said:


> So? You are not making any sense. You are arguing that one man should take every shot possible. I do agree that Gordon should have gotten the ball a lot more down the stretch, but labelling as terrible any ***OPEN 3 POINTER*** by Noc, or Hinrich, is silly.


He was open because the play was drawn up for him. 
























What if the play was drawn up for the best shooter on the team??? :angel:


----------



## BG7

maswe12 said:


> you serious...the bulsl were lucky to get 15 FTs...with all the jumpers they take. You dont get an even number of FTs if you keep out of the paint like its the plague. Shaq had 2 or 3 really bad calls against him, one time where the defender drew an offensive foul from at least a foot inside the circle...then wade was getting hammered all first half without calls. He did get a gimme call against malik allen in the 4 though. Nocioni drew some charges with his feet still moving. Shaq only had 8 fts against a team that wanted to foul him more...NBA officials are the worst in sports, and i certainly didnt think that the bulls got the short end of the stick tonight.


You do know just because a player's feet are moving and are within the semicircle doesn't mean that there can't be an offensive foul. Most of Shaq's offensive fouls were from hooking players and elbowing them I believe.


----------



## DaBullz

El Chapu said:


> So? You are not making any sense. You are arguing that one man should take every shot possible. I do agree that Gordon should have gotten the ball a lot more down the stretch, but labelling as terrible any ***OPEN 3 POINTER*** by Noc, or Hinrich, is silly.


It wasn't that open, and it was clearly a pressure situation where we have the ideal player to take the shot.

As King said, it was a deception - make everyone think Ben would get it and try your *luck* with Nocioni.

I'm not blaming Nocioni, at all. He did what he was supposed to do... except actually make the shot.


----------



## maswe12

Wynn said:


> Of course you learn to stay out of the paint if every time Shaq mauls you it is called a block or an offensive foul instead of a defensive foul on the big fella. At least when we were getting the benefit of Jordan's calls, fans of the Bull were willing to acknowledge a certain amount of star treatment. Complaining about the refs when your team shoots *22 more FTs in the game* just shouldn't be allowed!


WHen you play sweetney and chandler down low you shouldnt draw any fouls. Nocioni might draw a few but he likes to play on the perimeter. Ben gordon drew fouls at the same rate at wade when he drove to the basket---he just doesnt do it as much. You cant just call fouls on a team to even things up. The bulls didnt earn trips to the line tonight. There were some real iffy offensive fouls called on shaq that limit his playing time. Plus it was in the best interest of the bulls to foul shaq more and they didnt get the calls.


----------



## maswe12

sloth said:


> You do know just because a player's feet are moving and are within the semicircle doesn't mean that there can't be an offensive foul. Most of Shaq's offensive fouls were from hooking players and elbowing them I believe.


It was a charge, no hooks or elbows were out.


----------



## ChiBron

El Chapu said:


> I do agree that Gordon should have gotten the ball a lot more down the stretch, but labelling as terrible any ***OPEN 3 POINTER*** by Noc, or Hinrich, is silly.


But it was NOT an open 3pter. Not even close. Noce was well contested on that one, which ticks me off even more so. Y was he so eager to get a shot off? We still had 18 seconds left on the clock. Could've easily worked the ball around and gotten a BETTER shot. But then again, Noce has little to no experience in these sort of situations and he PANICKED. WHICH IS WHY you put the ball in the hands of guys who've been here b4. Still don't know what the hell Skiles was thinking. You could clearly see the disbelief on Ben's face during his press conference today. He had that _"Gee, how many ****ing times do I have to prove my clutchness in order to get the LAST play drawn for me in a PLAYOFF [email protected]?"_. The commentators(Bill, Snapper and Tirico) were simply shocked by Ben not touching the ball on our final 3 possessions.


----------



## PowerWoofer

I'll say it again, this team doesn't have what it takes to beat a team like Miami in a 7-game series. It's exactly like last year with New Jersey. Everyone thought they could beat Miami, but the Heat swept them, just like they're going to do with the Bulls. We don't stand a chance against these guys. Our only chance of stealing a game away from them is if Shaq injures himself, and if Wade can foul out of a game. That's how bad the Bulls are right now: they have to rely on other people's misfortunes in order to get what they want (Knicks losing this season, having the Sixers drop out of the 8th spot, and now thinking they can take out Miami) IT AIN'T HAPPENING!!!! Miami is too good for us, no matter how young and how much hustle we show on the court. We still suck at the end of the day.

And I'm a big Bulls fan. I just have to face the reality of the situation. It isn't easy rooting for the team you know is going to get destroyed.


----------



## TripleDouble

PowerWoofer said:


> It isn't easy rooting for the team you know is going to get destroyed.


The Bulls were "destroyed" last night?


----------



## BG7

maswe12 said:


> It was a charge, no hooks or elbows were out.


If thats the case, than the refs had more noncalls on the hooks/elbows than I thought.


----------



## PowerWoofer

TripleDouble said:


> The Bulls were "destroyed" last night?


Two words: Foul line.

How about two other words: Interior offense.


PUT THESE THINGS TOGETHER, AND YOU DEFINITELY DON'T GET THE BULLS. YOU GET ANY OTHER TEAM IN THE LEAGUE BESIDES THE BULLS.


----------



## Wynn

maswe12 said:


> WHen you play sweetney and chandler down low you shouldnt draw any fouls. Nocioni might draw a few but he likes to play on the perimeter. Ben gordon drew fouls at the same rate at wade when he drove to the basket---he just doesnt do it as much. You cant just call fouls on a team to even things up. The bulls didnt earn trips to the line tonight. There were some real iffy offensive fouls called on shaq that limit his playing time. Plus it was in the best interest of the bulls to foul shaq more and they didnt get the calls.


I agree that it was in the best interest of the Bull to foul Shaq more. I'm a big fan of Haq-a-Shaq. Am disappointed Skiles didn't employ it. Given that he didn't, the free-throw discrepancy (Did I mention the *22 FT discrepancy!* between the two teams?!) was even more surprising. I'd be a big fan of just having O'Fella, Sweets, Malik, and Schenscher (heck, even give Pargo a go!) all taking turns beating on the guy every time he got the ball in the post.

I guess my point is that Skiles tried to play honest defense on the Heats, and still ticky-tack fouls were called all night. I doubt it would have been worse if the Bull had actually been on a mission to foul Shaq (or Wade) on every single play. 

I've even gotten used to the difference.... the Bull has pretty much lost in that category all season. The fact that fans are complaining when their team has a *22 FTA advantage* is just mind-boggling. 











I'll admit, at this point, that I have a very small mind.


----------



## Future

I haven't read this thread, just got back from by buddy's house after watchin the game. Hinrich's turnover hurt a lot towards the end of the game. He needs to stop picking up his dribble and jumping in the air and throwing a horrible pass. He has done that many times this year. Use your damn head. 

I also hate how he went away from Ben towards the end of the game. Give the damn ball to your hot man!!! GOD!! 

Valiant effort, hopefully we put up an even better one on Monday.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

PowerWoofer said:


> I'll say it again, this team doesn't have what it takes to beat a team like Miami in a 7-game series. It's exactly like last year with New Jersey. Everyone thought they could beat Miami, but the Heat swept them, just like they're going to do with the Bulls. We don't stand a chance against these guys. Our only chance of stealing a game away from them is if Shaq injures himself, and if Wade can foul out of a game. That's how bad the Bulls are right now: they have to rely on other people's misfortunes in order to get what they want (Knicks losing this season, having the Sixers drop out of the 8th spot, and now thinking they can take out Miami) IT AIN'T HAPPENING!!!! Miami is too good for us, no matter how young and how much hustle we show on the court. We still suck at the end of the day.
> 
> And I'm a big Bulls fan. I just have to face the reality of the situation. It isn't easy rooting for the team you know is going to get destroyed.


Dude, you're so bipolar about the Bulls. They win, you think they're the greatest team in the world. They lose, you think all hope is lost for the franchise.


----------



## El Chapu

The Krakken said:


> He was open because the play was drawn up for him.
> 
> 
> What if the play was drawn up for the best shooter on the team??? :angel:


So if they draw it for him it might be because they trust him and they know he can actually make an open 3 pointer. Everyone knows Gordon is the Bulls go to guy, thats why you have to come with something different (or plan B) after a timeout.


----------



## BG7

Come on guys, don't get down, I thought game one would be the one we steal that put us in an advantage in the series, but oh well, suck it up, and win game 2. The Heat aren't too stellar on the road, so if we lose game 2, oh well, win the 2 games in Chicago, make it into a 3 game series. We were in this game with Chandler, Deng, Nocioni, and Hinrich playing worse than usual, and the first two were pretty much pretty nonexistant. That was one of our most pathetic defensive efforts of the year, and I'm not talking about Shaq, but on Dwyane Wade. I posted it as a key to the series, not giving Dwyane Wade the lane, we gave Wade the lane, stopped putting that great effort defense that kept him out of the lane, and now you can see why I put it as a key to the series, when he got to the lane in the 4th quarter he was unstoppable.

Bulls in 7.


----------



## IbizaXL

We dominated in the paint in Game 1 :banana: . I cant wait to see Zo back for this series.


----------



## El Chapu

SPMJ said:


> But it was NOT an open 3pter. Not even close. Noce was well contested on that one, which ticks me off even more so. Y was he so eager to get a shot off? We still had 18 seconds left on the clock. Could've easily worked the ball around and gotten a BETTER shot. But then again, Noce has little to no experience in these sort of situations and he PANICKED. WHICH IS WHY you put the ball in the hands of guys who've been here b4. Still don't know what the hell Skiles was thinking. You could clearly see the disbelief on Ben's face during his press conference today. He had that _"Gee, how many ****ing times do I have to prove my clutchness in order to get the LAST play drawn for me in a PLAYOFF [email protected]?"_. The commentators(Bill, Snapper and Tirico) were simply shocked by Ben not touching the ball on our final 3 possessions.


Well, as I said before, I missed that part of the game (Noc's 3 point attempt) but my main point was that someone argued that it was a terrible shot because the one that took AN OPEN 3 POINTER/GOOD LOOK was Nocioni and not Gordon. Now, if Noc forced the shot with a someone guarding him tight, thats a different story.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

The Krakken said:


> He was open because the play was drawn up for him.
> What if the play was drawn up for the best shooter on the team??? :angel:


I guess we were all wrong thinking Michael Jordan should be taking the final shots when all along better shooters like Steve Kerr and John Paxson should have been and not just during the Game Sixes of the 1993 and 1997 Finals!


----------



## PowerWoofer

TwinkieTowers said:


> Dude, you're so bipolar about the Bulls. They win, you think they're the greatest team in the world. They lose, you think all hope is lost for the franchise.


That's just how I act. I love watching them play - when they win. When they lose, they always find a way to do it that really pisses me off. As a fan of this team, you wish they had some talented guys. I mean, Jordan poured his heart and soul into this team and won this franchise six titles, and now all we have is a hard-working team that is EASILY outmatched every night. And even though we keep games close, *winning teams don't trail for 46 of 48 minutes. They lead the game and keep the lead until the very end. This is what the Bulls can't do. They can't lead a good team for most of a game. They're always trailing and having to fight back into games.*

One day these guys will have to realize in order to win in the NBA, you have to dominate other teams. And by dominating, I mean being able to lead teams and keep them from taking over games. The Bulls can't stay in the lead for any long amount of time against any good team, and that's why we're stuck in mediocre hell. I hope Paxson has a plan for this offseason. I want to see us dominate teams next season; not just fight to stay in games. Losers fight to stay in games. Not winners.


----------



## kirkisgod

Noc forced the shot and it was not a good decision. We have to get to a point where someone besides Ben steps up and takes the big clutch shot late in the game. It was Paxson who hit an open three against Phoenix and Kerr against Utah. People are going to deny Ben the ball in the fourth quarter. If Nocioni is open, i dont mind that shot, but it WAS a terrible decision.


----------



## BG7

We definitely should have had Pargo in the game in those final seconds, if Ben isn't open, there is no one on the team other than Pargo that I'd rather have take the shot.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

PowerWoofer said:


> I'll say it again, this team doesn't have what it takes to beat a team like Miami in a 7-game series. It's exactly like last year with New Jersey. Everyone thought they could beat Miami, but the Heat swept them, just like they're going to do with the Bulls.


New Jersey in the playoffs last year:
Game 1 (at Miami): 98-116
Game 2 (at Miami): 87-104
Game 3 (at NJ): 105-108 OT
Game 4 (at NJ): 97-110

Except for Game 3, the Nets were totally dominated by the Heat. The Bulls barely lost tonight, and it was on THE ROAD. Damn, the Nets looked really bad on the road last season, didn't they?


----------



## kirkisgod

PowerWoofer said:


> That's just how I act. I love watching them play - when they win. When they lose, they always find a way to do it that really pisses me off. As a fan of this team, you wish they had some talented guys. I mean, Jordan poured his heart and soul into this team and won this franchise six titles, and now all we have is a hard-working team that is EASILY outmatched every night. And even though we keep games close, *winning teams don't trail for 46 of 48 minutes. They lead the game and keep the lead until the very end. This is what the Bulls can't do. They can't lead a good team for most of a game. They're always trailing and having to fight back into games.*
> 
> One day these guys will have to realize in order to win in the NBA, you have to dominate other teams. And by dominating, I mean being able to lead teams and keep them from taking over games. The Bulls can't stay in the lead for any long amount of time against any good team, and that's why we're stuck in mediocre hell. I hope Paxson has a plan for this offseason. I want to see us dominate teams next season; not just fight to stay in games. Losers fight to stay in games. Not winners.


Right now, the Bulls are at a point where, when they play the good teams they almost always have to steal a win by coming back and surprising the other team. 

Every time we get a win against good teams, its like we tricked them. And good teams dont need to trick other teams.


----------



## kirkisgod

sloth said:


> We definitely should have had Pargo in the game in those final seconds, if Ben isn't open, there is no one on the team other than Pargo that I'd rather have take the shot.


Eh....Pargo would have tried to throw an olley-oop to Kirk that would have deflected off Ben's head and hit the shot clock.


----------



## PowerWoofer

TwinkieTowers said:


> New Jersey in the playoffs last year:
> Game 1 (at Miami): 98-116
> Game 2 (at Miami): 87-104
> Game 3 (at NJ): 105-108 OT
> Game 4 (at NJ): 97-110
> 
> Except for Game 3, the Nets were totally dominated by the Heat. The Bulls barely lost tonight, and it was on THE ROAD. Damn, the Nets looked really bad on the road last season, didn't they?


That's not the point. The point is, the Bulls have no chance of winning this series. They'll be lucky to win even one game at home against this team, because we have no froncourt whatsoever that can do ANYTHING efficiently for a prolonged amount of time. And we also have no superior talent. We're always behind and having to get back in games, and frankly, I'm tired of having to watch the same damn games, always us losing to two or three points and never being able to get crucial points and defensive stops. WE ALWAYS FIND A WAY TO TURN OVER THE BALL LATE IN GAMES, WHICH LEADS TO US GIVING THE OTEHR TEAMS EASY BASKETS. WHEN WILL THESE GUYS LEARN TO PLAY EFFICIENTLY WHEN IT COUNTS?


----------



## Wynn

kirkisgod said:


> Eh....Pargo would have tried to throw an olley-oop to Kirk that would have deflected *off Ben's head* and hit the shot clock.


....thus stopping the clock and giving us more valuable seconds in which to stage a comback. What a heads-up play (Pargo-n the pun...) that would have been!

Darn it, Skiles, why no Pargo?!


----------



## Wynn

PowerWoofer said:


> That's not the point. The point is, the Bulls have no chance of winning this series. They'll be lucky to win even one game at home against this team, because we have no froncourt whatsoever that can do ANYTHING efficiently for a prolonged amount of time. And we also have no superior talent. We're always behind and having to get back in games, and frankly, I'm tired of having to watch the same damn games, always us losing to two or three points and never being able to get crucial points and defensive stops. WE ALWAYS FIND A WAY TO TURN OVER THE BALL LATE IN GAMES, WHICH LEADS TO US GIVING THE OTEHR TEAMS EASY BASKETS. WHEN WILL THESE GUYS LEARN TO PLAY EFFICIENTLY WHEN IT COUNTS?


Now that everything is capitalized, I can see that you really mean it!

*NOW TRY IT IN BOLD!*


----------



## TwinkieTowers

PowerWoofer said:


> WHEN WILL THESE GUYS LEARN TO PLAY EFFICIENTLY WHEN IT COUNTS?


Well, what if Luol made those three-pointers earlier in the game? The Bulls would have won by one point! My point is, "it" counts during the whole game. Otherwise, games should only last five minutes.


----------



## TheDynasty

TwinkieTowers said:


> Dude, you're so bipolar about the Bulls. They win, you think they're the greatest team in the world. They lose, you think all hope is lost for the franchise.


Typical of most uninformed fans who jump to conclusions and over react to every situation. The Bulls take the #2 seed to the wire when nobody thought they could win and all of a sudden he thinks they are the worst team in the league. Of course if they win the next game he will jump right back on.

Despite the loss I think the game tonight said a lot about this team's future. We were seriously overmatched and yet our guys found a way to fight, imagine what this team could do with another big man. I think Skiles is a great coach and shows it with what he has done with this team, which has a huge hole in the middle. The good thing is we have the money and draft picks to take care of our problems and turn this team into something good.

As for the Nocioni play, yes I think everyone would have rather seen Ben with the ball, but keep in mind there is also another team on the court and just as much as we want Ben to have the ball they want to keep him from getting it. Ben is not Michael and can't just create his own game winning shot. Obviously Noc took a bad shot, but I think Skiles plan was to take the quick shot so we would at least have a chance if we missed. Things just didn't work out. These guys are young, they will learn, every game like this is another experience for them and will help them in the long run.


----------



## The ROY

TheDynasty said:


> Ben is not Michael and can't just create his own game winning shot


Are we talking about the same Ben? Cuz the Ben I've seen creates the MAJORITY of his game winners.


----------



## HKF

It's great everyone is optimistic, but be real for a second here. The Bulls gave away a winnable game that could be the difference between getting to a game 7 or losing in Game 5.

Now the pressure is on the Bulls to win Game 2, because if they don't, they run the risk of getting swept right out of this thing.

I said the Bulls would lose in 5 games, but after such a valiant effort, I have a feeling the Bulls are going to get swept, because Wade is going to play better and they still have no answer for Shaq whatsoever. 

Gordon and Nocioni had one of their most efficient games of the season in Game 1 and the odds of that happening again during this series, with the same performances from everyone else is not looking to the Bulls advantage.

If the Bulls lose Game 2 they will more than likely be gone in 5. You can't give away winnable games in the NBA playoffs, cause you're the underdog and you've already got so much to overcome.


----------



## The ROY

PowerWoofer said:


> That's not the point. The point is, the Bulls have no chance of winning this series. They'll be lucky to win even one game at home against this team, because we have no froncourt whatsoever that can do ANYTHING efficiently for a prolonged amount of time. And we also have no superior talent. We're always behind and having to get back in games, and frankly, I'm tired of having to watch the same damn games, always us losing to two or three points and never being able to get crucial points and defensive stops. WE ALWAYS FIND A WAY TO TURN OVER THE BALL LATE IN GAMES, WHICH LEADS TO US GIVING THE OTEHR TEAMS EASY BASKETS. WHEN WILL THESE GUYS LEARN TO PLAY EFFICIENTLY WHEN IT COUNTS?


No offense but, you complain TOO much and probably expect TOO much as well. We're young with NO true veteran leader-ship, no super-star to SAVE us & not a big man to SPEAK of. Be happy they achieve as much as they DO. We're better than ALOT of teams just off HUSTLE & will-power, you can't say that about ALOT of teams in the NBA.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

Welcome to the boards, TD. I wouldn't call PW "uninformed". I respect his passion for the team. He just makes extreme (IMO) reactions.


----------



## TheDynasty

The ROY said:


> Are we talking about the same Ben? Cuz the Ben I've seen creates the MAJORITY of his game winners.


You know what I mean. You're right he can create his own shot, but the point is he is not Michael and it's not like in the last minute of the game he is the only one who should get the ball. You can't rely on him and expect him to make all the big plays. Ben is great, don't get me wrong, but people act like he is some sort of savior who could win every game for us if he got the ball. Like I said he's not Michael.


----------



## The ROY

TheDynasty said:


> You know what I mean. You're right he can create his own shot, but the point is he is not Michael and it's not like in the last minute of the game he is the only one who should get the ball. You can't rely on him and expect him to make all the big plays. Ben is great, don't get me wrong, but people act like he is some sort of savior who could win every game for us if he got the ball. Like I said he's not Michael.


Very true

but I would have rather lost on a Ben Gordon miss than a Nocioni miss LOL


----------



## BG7

HKF said:


> It's great everyone is optimistic, but be real for a second here. The Bulls gave away a winnable game that could be the difference between getting to a game 7 or losing in Game 5.
> 
> Now the pressure is on the Bulls to win Game 2, because if they don't, they run the risk of getting swept right out of this thing.
> 
> I said the Bulls would lose in 5 games, but after such a valiant effort, I have a feeling the Bulls are going to get swept, because Wade is going to play better and they still have no answer for Shaq whatsoever.
> 
> Gordon and Nocioni had one of their most efficient games of the season in Game 1 and the odds of that happening again during this series, with the same performances from everyone else is not looking to the Bulls advantage.
> 
> If the Bulls lose Game 2 they will more than likely be gone in 5. You can't give away winnable games in the NBA playoffs, cause you're the underdog and you've already got so much to overcome.


Well considering that this was one of our worst defensive efforts of the year, and that the game was basically a watch Ben shooot and hope he gets it done game, I woudn't count the Bulls out of the series yet.

Not to mention Wade's banged up, Haslem's gonna get suspended, and I don't think Shaq can hit those shots from outside of the paint like that again (he was cooling majorly towards the end of the game). Bottomline is we gave Wade the lane down the stretch, and when Wade gets into the lane he is pretty much unstoppable.

This was a winnable game yes, but don't confuse it with a well played game by the Bulls. Nocioni had an overall solid game, but he made a lot of bonehead plays in this game as well, and the 16 rebounds I think are more of a result of no one else going for rebounds, this certainly isn't Nocioni's best. Ben Gordon however was at his best, he will probaly only have one other game this series on this level, the rest will just be 18-24 point efforts. Other players have to come to play, no one was giving 100% effort EXCEPT Ben, and it speaks volumes that we were in the game with only one player truly busting his ***. What was the Heats biggest lead? 12? We were never really out of this game.


----------



## kirkisgod

why did we have to give this one away?


----------



## TripleDouble

HKF said:


> It's great everyone is optimistic, but be real for a second here. The Bulls gave away a winnable game that could be the difference between getting to a game 7 or losing in Game 5.
> 
> Now the pressure is on the Bulls to win Game 2, because if they don't, they run the risk of getting swept right out of this thing.
> 
> I said the Bulls would lose in 5 games, but after such a valiant effort, I have a feeling the Bulls are going to get swept, because Wade is going to play better and they still have no answer for Shaq whatsoever.
> 
> Gordon and Nocioni had one of their most efficient games of the season in Game 1 and the odds of that happening again during this series, with the same performances from everyone else is not looking to the Bulls advantage.
> 
> If the Bulls lose Game 2 they will more than likely be gone in 5. You can't give away winnable games in the NBA playoffs, cause you're the underdog and you've already got so much to overcome.


They didn't really give it away. They were trailing most of the game. Also, the odds of Deng scoring 4 point again are pretty slim so while Gordon may not average 35 and Noc may not play as well, that will be offset by the 16 and 7 Deng has been bringing pretty consistantly of late. Plus, Jason Williams, he of the complete disappearing acts as a King in the Playoffs, will not likely score 17 points again (I hope!).


----------



## TheDynasty

TwinkieTowers said:


> Welcome to the boards, TD. I wouldn't call PW "uninformed". I respect his passion for the team. He just makes extreme (IMO) reactions.


Some of his posts remind of the guys on the White Sox board who were ready to jump over the ledge when the sox started 1-4, now these same guys are already buying their world series tickets. It just gets old hearing the same thing after each loss. People need to realize that it will not work out perfectly every night, that there is another team out there who want to win just as bad and you can't rag on your team after each loss. Maybe people were just spolied by the Dynsty years and expect the bulls to dominate every year.


----------



## TheDynasty

The ROY said:


> Very true
> 
> but I would have rather lost on a Ben Gordon miss than a Nocioni miss LOL


No doubt, it was a bad shot no question. If at all possible you want your best shooter taking the shot and that is Ben, but like I said as bad as we want Ben to have the ball Miami wants to keep it from him.


----------



## El Chapu

Haslem will get a suspension? I think he will get away with a fine only.


----------



## PC Load Letter

El Chapu said:


> You are contradicting yourself: he was open, with a good look, but was a terrible shot? One shot isnt terrible because the one taking it "isnt the ideal guy". If not, every shot would be terrible unless the one taking it is Gordon for the Bulls, and so on.
> 
> Nocioni improved a lot his outside shooting, so if he was open it wasnt a terrible shot. Before that attempt, he made one as well from the top of the arc, left side.
> 
> Let me say I didnt catch that "terrible" shot by Nocioni, but if he was open, good look included, then I dont see why it was a terrible attempt. Gordon cant take every shot for the Bulls.


How exactly did I contradict myself again? Mind explaining that one to me? I said it was a good, open look (at least open enough to get it off without a lot of pressure), but then proceeded to explain why it was still a terrible shot. What part did you miss?

Considering the circumstances, it was a terrible shot. It's not like we had 5 seconds and he had to put it up simply to at least get a shot up. We had 18 seconds. THat's plenty of time to get anyone the ball, specifically the "ideal guy." Or even the 2nd most ideal guy. As I said, if Skiles designed for Noch to take that shot, then shame on him, because it put Noch in a tough situation, doing something that isn't his strength. In the biggest possession of the game, we didn't end up getting a good shot. Period.


----------



## TheDynasty

sloth said:


> Other players have to come to play, no one was giving 100% effort EXCEPT Ben, and it speaks volumes that we were in the game with only one player truly busting his ***. What was the Heats biggest lead? 12? We were never really out of this game.


I have to argue your last point, this whole team hustles and you can't say Ben was the only one busting his ***. Ben was the one getting it done out there but you can't fault the effort of this team.


----------



## El Chapu

I think we have Ben's family members posting a lot in here.


----------



## TheDynasty

PC Load Letter said:


> Considering the circumstances, it was a terrible shot. It's not like we had 5 seconds and he had to put it up simply to at least get a shot up. We had 18 seconds. THat's plenty of time to get anyone the ball, specifically the "ideal guy."


I think the idea was to take the quick shot that way you give yourself a chance even if you miss. You wait until time goes down then you only give yourself one shot. At least this way we got the shot and 15 more second left when we're only down by 3. If the game were tied obviously you wait, but being down you don't want to waste the remaining seconds and possible get stuck with a shot that was just as bad as the one we took.


----------



## El Chapu

PC Load Letter said:


> How exactly did I contradict myself again? Mind explaining that one to me? I said it was a good, open look (at least open enough to get it off), but then proceeded to explain why it was still a terrible shot. What part did you miss?
> 
> Considering the circumstances, it was a terrible shot. It's not like we had 5 seconds and he had to put it up simply to at least get a shot up. We had 18 seconds. THat's plenty of time to get anyone the ball, specifically the "ideal guy." Or even the 2nd most ideal guy. As I said, if Skiles designed for Noch to take that shot, then same on him, because it put Noch in a tough situation, doing something that isn't his strength. In the biggest possession of the game, we didn't end up getting a good shot. Period.


Your reasoning is that he wasnt the ideal player to take that shot. Well, Ben Gordon isnt the ideal guy for Miami to take that shot, so you know the first guy they want to avoid is BG. 

My Bottomline is that having Nocioni attempt an open three isnt terrible, no matter who you are playing and if its playoffs or not. But as some posters said, it wasnt an open look, so then it wasnt the best decision. But you keep saying he was open, so IMO (if that is the case), it wasnt terrible.


----------



## PC Load Letter

TheDynasty said:


> I think the idea was to take the quick shot that way you give yourself a chance even if you miss. You wait until time goes down then you only give yourself one shot. At least this way we got the shot and 15 more second left when we're only down by 3. If the game were tied obviously you wait, but being down you don't want to waste the remaining seconds and possible get stuck with a shot that was just as bad as the one we took.


That's fine; that's why most of the time a team goes for a quick two in that situation. I would have been all for that. For example: if Noch instead had caught the ball, then drove to the hoop trying to get a layup, it's a much better call and we have a much better chance to win the game.


----------



## PC Load Letter

El Chapu said:


> I think we have Ben's family members posting a lot in here.


Try to keep it on topic and civil.


----------



## El Chapu

PC Load Letter said:


> Try to keep it on topic and civil.


Im trying. Thats why I try to avoid pointing fingers. Unlike others.


----------



## TheDynasty

PC Load Letter said:


> That's fine; that's why most of the time a team goes for a quick two in that situation. I would have been all for that. For example: if Noch instead had caught the ball, then drove to the hoop trying to get a layup, it's a much better call and we have a much better chance to win the game.


That's a good point, Noch should of went for the layup, if I remember correctly he had a lane as his man was to his left. Going for the two would have been the better choice, unless you have the open three. Really it was a bad choice by Noch, he's a great player but tends to make bad decisions in crunch time.


----------



## kirkisgod

> "It was set up for Andres and they read it well," Gordon said. "He took a contested shot. But at that point we were just trying to get a shot off so we could get another opportunity at the ball."


http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...lsside,1,4745334.story?coll=cs-home-headlines


----------



## TripleDouble

Wade talking smack: "Like Shaq and I always say, the fourth quarter is my time." 

AP 

The Bulls really let up on Wade in the fourth. On that one play he looked like Moses going through the Red Sea. Hopefully Hinrich can avoid those ticky tack calls Wade always gets by initiating contact and therefore still be able to play good defense in the fourth.


----------



## anorexorcist

^^That was probably said to psychologically get at Ben Gordon, who everyone KNOWS has eked out the 4th as his time.


----------



## DaBullz

PC Load Letter said:


> That's fine; that's why most of the time a team goes for a quick two in that situation. I would have been all for that. For example: if Noch instead had caught the ball, then drove to the hoop trying to get a layup, it's a much better call and we have a much better chance to win the game.


Down by 3, you want 3 points.

The reason he shot right away was explained, but also because if he did drive, it'd chew up clock AND give Miami the chance to foul him to prevent ANYONE from getting a chance for a 3 AND THE TIE. Just like that HoGrant pass to Paxson to win the championship.

In a 2 point game, Miami can't afford to foul, and the bulls SHOULD have used as much of the remaining 15 seconds to get their best shot, preferably a score at the buzzer (so Miami can't hit one after to win it).


----------



## TwinkieTowers

El Chapu said:


> Im trying. Thats why I try to avoid pointing fingers. *Unlike others*.


You technically are pointing fingers with that statement.


----------



## PC Load Letter

DaBullz said:


> Down by 3, you want 3 points.
> 
> The reason he shot right away was explained, but also because if he did drive, it'd chew up clock AND give Miami the chance to foul him to prevent ANYONE from getting a chance for a 3 AND THE TIE. Just like that HoGrant pass to Paxson to win the championship.
> 
> In a 2 point game, Miami can't afford to foul, and the bulls SHOULD have used as much of the remaining 15 seconds to get their best shot, preferably a score at the buzzer (so Miami can't hit one after to win it).


Down by 3 with 18 seconds left, you have enough time to choose between shooting a 3 or going for a quick two; it happens all the time. If they want to foul you with 15 or so seconds left and put you at the line, fine. You make two FTs and you're only down 1 with 15 seconds left. You foul and hope they miss 1. If they don't, then you probably go for a 3 to tie. If they do miss, then you don't need a 3. The point is, 18 seconds left is plenty of time to make a choice.

You shoot right away, and miss, if they get the rebound, it's pretty much over. I'm of the thinking that you extend the game by getting a much higher percentage shot (which you can often get in that situation), then fouling and hope you get lucky and they miss a FT. If they don't, there's still plenty of time to then go for your 3.


----------



## DaBullz

PC Load Letter said:


> Down by 3 with 18 seconds left, you have enough time to choose between shooting a 3 or going for a quick two; it happens all the time. If they want to foul you with 15 or so seconds left and put you at the line, fine. You make two FTs and you're only down 1 with 15 seconds left. You foul and hope they miss 1. If they don't, then you probably go for a 3 to tie. If they do miss, then you don't need a 3. The point is, 18 seconds left is plenty of time to make a choice.
> 
> You shoot right away, and miss, if they get the rebound, it's pretty much over. I'm of the thinking that you extend the game by getting a much higher percentage shot (which you can often get in that situation), then fouling and hope you get lucky and they miss a FT. If they don't, there's still plenty of time to then go for your 3.


First, there was 14.something seconds left.

Second, there's nothing more than the Heat would like than the bulls to use 14.something and make a 2. Next best is to have the clock run, period.

Third, if you trade FTs, it's just as possible YOU miss 1 of 2 as THEM missing.

Fourth, the Bulls got TWO more posessions after Nocioni's miss.

So, Nocioni was told "shoot right away to avoid getting fouled where you only get 2 foul shots" and he did the right thing... except he didn't make that basket.



> "It was set up for Andres and they read it well," Gordon said. "He took a contested shot. *But at that point we were just trying to get a shot off so we could get another opportunity at the ball.*"


EDIT: plus the bulls were out of timeouts, so after they fouled a Heat player (and down by 1), they couldn't use a timeout to advance the ball without the clock running


----------



## El Chapu

TwinkieTowers said:


> You technically are pointing fingers with that statement.


Im not pointing fingers at X or Y. Not calling anyone out. "Others" could be two, three or more. But intelligent people might know who Im talking about, but thats a different story.


----------



## PC Load Letter

DaBullz said:


> First, there was 14.something seconds left.
> 
> Second, there's nothing more than the Heat would like than the bulls to use 14.something and make a 2. Next best is to have the clock run, period.
> 
> Third, if you trade FTs, it's just as possible YOU miss 1 of 2 as THEM missing.
> 
> Fourth, the Bulls got TWO more posessions after Nocioni's miss.
> 
> So, Nocioni was told "shoot right away to avoid getting fouled where you only get 2 foul shots" and he did the right thing... except he didn't make that basket.
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: plus the bulls were out of timeouts, so after they fouled a Heat player (and down by 1), they couldn't use a timeout to advance the ball without the clock running
> 
> [/size]


There was 18 something seconds left when we inbounded the ball, I'm almost positive. 

Who said anything about using all the time to make a 2? The idea is to go for as quick of a two as you can get...if you can get it. If it's not open, then you go for 3. No matter what, you don't rush a low percentage shot up; that makes zero sense. If you do that, who cares if you have time for another possession, because you'd likely be down 4 or 5 (as we were).

There's nothing to indicate the Heat would have fouled us if we took a little more time to get a better shot; in fact, that rarely happens, though it's almost always brought up by the broadcasters in that situation. It's risky to give a team, down 3 points or not, free points (seemingly free, as in free throws). I'm not sure why you seem so sure they'd have fouled us.

I didn't listen to post-game, but did someone say Noch was told to hurry up and shoot to avoid being fouled and sent to the line? You put it in quotes, so I assume that's straight from a quote by Skiles or one of the players? If so, then it's a different story and it's simply a bad call by Skiles.

Either way, the points are moot. We lost because we didn't execute when we needed to, that's the bottom line. There will be more chances. However, I do disagree with your logic. C'est la vie.


----------



## spongyfungy

dabullz is always disagreeing when it comes to end-game strategy


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## spongyfungy

it was 18.2 seconds when Andres launched one.

Andres is a slow shooter and to make him shoot that in a hurry with a guy in his face is dumb.

however the shot was close and in line


----------



## rosenthall

Alright, I've missed most of this thread, since last night beckoned for some partying after the game, but after having a night to sit on it, a few general observations:

Overall, I thought we played a good game. Aside from Deng, I thought everyone played well, and for the most part, we played with a high level of intensity and composure throughout the game, and we did just about everything we could within reason to put ourselves in a decent spot to win the game. 

However, Miami came out firing as well, and they're just a more talented team than we are, which, combined with a few mishaps on our end in the later stages of the game was enough to put them over the top. 

The one thing where we really came out on top though was our ability was to impose our will on them, and force the Heat into a style of play that's more conducive to us than them, and it appeared that they had a difficult time adapting to that, especially Shaq, and our ability to dictate tempo may be our best way to create a mismatch that the Heat'll have a difficult time compensating for. 

For the next game, I'm not really sure what I'd do all that differently. Nothing's going to change the fact that we have no one to guard Shaq, and I can't say I disagreed with Skiles' strategy of using a lot of motion and come at Shaq a lot of different ways on offense to take advantage of the fact that he doesn't move as well as he used to and hopefully get him in foul trouble. The biggest thing from game to game I think is will be if we can keep our heads up and continue to force our style of play onto them. Like I said, we were pretty much within striking distance the whole time against a motivated Heat team that has more talent than we do, so, I thought by and large, the plan and the execution were pretty decent, save for a few plays here and there that really cost us..........but that's just how the game goes. Dwayne Wade and Shaq are great players, and either are capable of scoring points regardless of what defense is played on them, so it's pretty much inevitable that they'll have some good games, particularly Shaq, who's just a terrible matchup for us.

EDIT: Also, I wanted to add that, even though we lost, I was pretty pleased with the way we played. We cracked a little bit, but I think we played well enough to give ourselves hope that we can win the series, and just as importantly, well enough to install a little doubt in the Heat that they might lose it if they're not careful.


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## PowerWoofer

TheDynasty said:


> Some of his posts remind of the guys on the White Sox board who were ready to jump over the ledge when the sox started 1-4, now these same guys are already buying their world series tickets. It just gets old hearing the same thing after each loss. People need to realize that it will not work out perfectly every night, that there is another team out there who want to win just as bad and you can't rag on your team after each loss. Maybe people were just spolied by the Dynsty years and expect the bulls to dominate every year.


Listen, I wasn't around to watch Jordan win those titles, but I've seen and heard enough to know that the guy is without a doubt the best player to play the game. If there's anything that makes me spoiled, it's that last year we won 47 with a good team, and this year we're right back to the point where we need the entire team to play A+ basketball ALL THE TIME just to stay in a game. It's not fun to watch that type of game, do you understand. I want to see some domination. Next year has to be the year. If not, this team is not going to do jack****. We can't rely on Gordon to do everything, just like Jordan couldn't do everything. You need talent at ALL 5 positions, not just at the 1-3 spots. We need some damn frontcourt that resembles something good. If we don't have that, this team is already done for next season. It's hard to explain why we suck, but all I know is that we do, and I want something to be proud of next season.


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## mizenkay

geez, powerwoofer, if "we suck" then what are the knicks?

perspective, it's a beautiful thing.


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## PowerWoofer

mizenkay said:


> geez, powerwoofer, if "we suck" then what are the knicks?
> 
> perspective, it's a beautiful thing.


Hey, the Knicks suck. But guess what, so do we. We both suck, just in different ways. They have talent that don't mesh well, we have a bunch of young, short and inexperienced guys that crack under pressure. Simple as that. Plus we have no talent whatsoever, except for maybe Gordon. That's about it.

And waiting a couple years until these guys start to "get it" is not my idea of fun. I want to see it NOW. Not in three years. Like right now! I hate having to wait to get something that may never come. I just wish these guys were better than they actually are. It's disappointing, because no matter how hard they played last night, the box score still said Head won, and Bulls lost. So we still suck.

It's all about getting a W. If you don't win, there's nothing to be proud of.


----------



## BG7

I don't know why no one has brought this up yet on our end of ame collapse, but who missed the rebound? We get the big stop and let Wade get the rebound, that chewed up tons of clock. That play really screwed us over a bit. Nocioni almost made it, it was just 3 inches too far, and unfortunately he doesn't have that good spin on his shot.

But watching Ben Gordon out there was amazing. The media was bashing him for dissapearing on the road last year against Washington, and he really delivered. He wanted to win, he wanted to win more than anyone else on the court, its going to be a big series by Gordon, this won't be the last 30 point game in this series for him. He is going to average around 26 ppg this series, but will that be enough? I hope so, but if we give Wade the lane again, we ain't gonna win. And Hinrich needs to step up, just because you have 4 fouls doesn't mean you play soft defense to avoid fouls. There is no moral victory in the playoffs, so the moral victory of not fouling out shouldn't be a priority. We have other point guards on the team, we could have brought Deng back in and put him on Wade, but Hinrich really blew it there. He should have been covering Wade, not Duhon.


----------



## mizenkay

sloth, do you think it was hinrich's decision to put duhon on wade? or just maybe it's skiles' call?

skiles also made the call not to play deng.


----------



## step

> sloth, do you think it was hinrich's decision to put duhon on wade? or just maybe it's skiles' call?


Has to be Skiles, Hinrich is too valuable to have him foul out even earlier than he did.



> skiles also made the call not to play deng.


Deng was pretty much a spectator than whole game, on and off the court. I have no quarrels in Skiles benching him, and I really don't see how anyone else could.


----------



## BG7

mizenkay said:


> sloth, do you think it was hinrich's decision to put duhon on wade? or just maybe it's skiles' call?
> 
> skiles also made the call not to play deng.


Yeah, I'm not sure who made it that way, but its not the way it should have been.

Also, why the hell was Tyson Chandler guarding Shaq? Sweetney should have got more minutes alongside Chandler. When Sweetney was guarding Shaq, Shaq didn't get in the paint, Sweetney matched Shaq pound for pound, and Shaq had to put up shots outside of the paint, and it was just unfortunate that Shaq was on today, but if we had Sweetney guarding Shaq, and then Chandler off the ball, Chandler could easily swat some of that stuff Shaq was putting up. I hope Skiles goes with a Sweetney on Shaq w/ Tyson off the ball. Sweetney played with good energy, more than I've ever seen, and he only got 13 minutes when he was obviously the best player to do the job, no need to make Tyson a liability on defense by making Tyson play to one of his weaknesses rather than his strength. Chandler and Deng need to play with more energy next game, especially Chandler who doesn't have one lick of basketball talent, and whose entire game is based energy. Kirk, Andres, and Ben brought it tonight, and unfortunately Ben was the only one to put it together yesterday, Andres and Kirk's stats weren't that bad, but they weren't playing quite as well as they were down the stretch during the regular season. 

Hopefully everyone brings up their game, and Gordon stays at around 25 ppg for the rest of the series, and hopefully we can win some games, we are definitely capable.

We need to sieze the oppurtunity tommorow, a hobbled Wade, a suspended Haslem, sieze the day, hopefully the old men are tired!


----------



## DaBullz

PC Load Letter said:


> I didn't listen to post-game, but did someone say Noch was told to hurry up and shoot to avoid being fouled and sent to the line? You put it in quotes, so I assume that's straight from a quote by Skiles or one of the players? If so, then it's a different story and it's simply a bad call by Skiles.
> 
> Either way, the points are moot. We lost because we didn't execute when we needed to, that's the bottom line. There will be more chances. However, I do disagree with your logic. C'est la vie.


The quote was from Gordon, and it said so in the quote 

Here's the thing. If Skiles is such a great coach, he was doing the right thing. The announcers called it before the play "they're obviously going to try and get off a quick shot" and the Bulls obliged. It was the obvious thing to do to basketball insiders.

For spongy... I had a disagreement with a similar situation in an earlier game. When someone pointed out the three point deficit in that game and how they rushed the shot to avoid being fouled, I changed my opinion. It's consistent with this situation, too.

As PC points out in his latter paragraph above, we lost because we didn't execute when we needed to. That is the bottom line.

So now it's twice in the same situation that Skiles has called the same kind of play.

People have been taking issue more with WHO took that last shot. It's questionable that somehow Skiles couldn't draw up a double pick or triple pick kind of play to get Gordon the final look. On the other hand, SausageKing pointed out that, in theory, the Heat was so focused on denying Gordon the ball that it might have given Nocioni a better look. I can't fault anyone for the way it turned out. Guys miss shots all the time, it's part of the game.


----------



## BG7

Also, like i said before, on the inbounds, the defensive team is playing 5 on 4. Its not in our advantage in trying to get the ball to Ben in 4 on 5, and we are just going to need to have Hinrich, Deng, and Nocioni to start making clutch shots in games so all the focus is on Ben. The Heat pretty much knew if Gordon got the ball they were headed to overtime with Shaq having 5 fouls which he would probaly foul out. So it isn't to the Heats advantage to let Gordon get the final shot by playing him straight up, he is the only one besides Pargo with no how in the clutch, and unfortunately with Pargo, he sat the entire game, so it would be pretty bad bringing in a rusty player in there, but I think the way Duhon play, Pargo might get some of his minutes next game. But with Gordon being 6 foot nil, he is going to be hard to get the ball too in double coverage, its not like he is freak Jordan who is the best ever, 6'6", and did I say the best ever? Or Kobe who is in the same branch as Kobe, but the Lakers also had other players that hit the big shot in Horry, Pargo, Fisher, and Fox. Or Lebron James, a freaky 6'10" with long arms. 

I don't think we should have rushed the shot, we should have tried to get Noc, Hinrich, Gordon for three, an open one, which we find pretty easily, and I think if we shot with about 6 seconds left, we would have had a chance for a rebound/kick out for another chance.


----------



## PC Load Letter

DaBullz said:


> The quote was from Gordon, and it said so in the quote
> 
> Here's the thing. If Skiles is such a great coach, he was doing the right thing. The announcers called it before the play "they're obviously going to try and get off a quick shot" and the Bulls obliged. It was the obvious thing to do to basketball insiders.
> 
> For spongy... I had a disagreement with a similar situation in an earlier game. When someone pointed out the three point deficit in that game and how they rushed the shot to avoid being fouled, I changed my opinion. It's consistent with this situation, too.
> 
> As PC points out in his latter paragraph above, we lost because we didn't execute when we needed to. That is the bottom line.
> 
> So now it's twice in the same situation that Skiles has called the same kind of play.
> 
> People have been taking issue more with WHO took that last shot. It's questionable that somehow Skiles couldn't draw up a double pick or triple pick kind of play to get Gordon the final look. On the other hand, SausageKing pointed out that, in theory, the Heat was so focused on denying Gordon the ball that it might have given Nocioni a better look. I can't fault anyone for the way it turned out. Guys miss shots all the time, it's part of the game.


I saw Gordon say they were trying to get a quick shot, but didn't say _anything_ about trying to avoid being fouled and going to the line, which was my contention in the first place. Did I miss that part?

Also, if the announcers think we did the right thing, then I guess I'm just plain wrong, because they're certainly the final word on end-of-game situations. I mean, basketball insiders will tell you, if anyone is the final word, it's the announcers. Duh.

As I said earlier, "taking as quick a shot as possible" should never equal "have Nocioni catch and shoot right away with 18 seconds still on the clock." (or any other player on our team outside of Ben, for that matter)

Guys missing shots is part of the game and you can't blame Noc for missing the shot if it was called for him, but I don't see how anyone can argue that it was the best play to call in that situation. Doing so is silly.

Regardless, it's time to move on to GAME 2...


----------



## Ron Cey

PC Load Letter said:


> As I said earlier, "taking as quick a shot as possible" should never equal "have Nocioni catch and shoot right away with 18 seconds still on the clock."
> 
> Guys missing shots is part of the game and you can't blame Noc for missing the shot if it was called for him, but I don't see how anyone can argue that it was the best play to call in that situation. Doing so is silly.


You are, of course, correct. Frankly, I doubt that the play call was "Noc, you catch and shoot it immediately even if under pressure from 26 feet." No way. Noc rushed it. Plain and simple. If that was Skiles' call, it was a bad call.

He also committed a couple of big turnovers, as did Hinrich. It was disappointing. What is encouraging, though, is that even with Shaq playing "like Shaq" and with Wade carrying the team on his shoulders in the 4th quarter, the Bulls were right in it even on the road.

Its going to be a series. Especially if we can get Deng playing like Deng. I stand by my "Heat in 6" prediction and I expect most of the games to be battles. 

*And PowerWoofer*, I know you have passion and all, but you need to have a beer or a bubble-bath or whatever it is that soothes you. The Heat are the #2 seed for a reason - they're better. As you follow sports, your team is going to lose games. That doesn't mean the team you follow "sucks" or that they don't have a good future. Judging by your post about not following the Jordan Era, I take it you are younger. Following a team and watching it develop is a process, as you will see.

Jordon failed to get out of the *first round of the playoffs for 4 yea**rs*. It took him *7 years to even get to the Finals.* This stuff doesn't happen overnight - even with elite talent - as much as we might want it too. I would recommend that you study the history of some of the truly great teams in the history of the league and the challenges and losses they had to overcome before becoming champions. That might give you some reassuring perspective as you follow this team and watch it develop.


----------



## T.Shock

Ron Cey said:


> You are, of course, correct. Frankly, I doubt that the play call was "Noc, you catch and shoot it immediately even if under pressure from 26 feet." No way. Noc rushed it. Plain and simple. If that was Skiles' call, it was a bad call.
> 
> He also committed a couple of big turnovers, as did Hinrich. It was disappointing. What is encouraging, though, is that even with Shaq playing "like Shaq" and with Wade carrying the team on his shoulders in the 4th quarter, the Bulls were right in it even on the road.
> 
> Its going to be a series. Especially if we can get Deng playing like Deng. I stand by my "Heat in 6" prediction and I expect most of the games to be battles.
> 
> *And PowerWoofer*, I know you have passion and all, but you need to have a beer or a bubble-bath or whatever it is that soothes you. The Heat are the #2 seed for a reason - they're better. As you follow sports, your team is going to lose games. That doesn't mean the team you follow "sucks" or that they don't have a good future. Judging by your post about not following the Jordan Era, I take it you are younger. Following a team and watching it develop is a process, as you will see.
> 
> Jordon failed to get out of the *first round of the playoffs for 4 yea*rs. It took him *7 years to even get to the Finals.* This stuff doesn't happen overnight - even with elite talent - as much as we might want it too. I would recommend that you study the history of some of the truly great teams in the history of the league and the challenges and losses they had to overcome before becoming champions. That might give you some reassuring perspective as you follow this team and watch it develope.


Excellent post. One of Jordan's greatest games is the 63 he dropped in the Garden. People forget that we lost that series in a sweep. The Celtics were the better team and Bird was better than Jordan at that point. The Pistons treated us like their child for three or four years in the late 80s. Think of all the great Knicks teams that got one shot at the Finals because of Michael. You want your team to win it all, but that oppurtunity is so rare, that sometimes competing at a high level is a victory in and of itself. We lost, but considering that our best five players are arguably in their 3rd year, 2nd year, 2nd year, 2nd year, and 23 years old, the future isn't the problem. Paxson has shown the ability to implement a style of play and find guys who fit that style (much like Phoenix, Detroit, San Antonio). If anything, once we secure a few playoff victories and if Gordon keeps putting up 30+ in the playoffs, that 22 FTA difference which cost us the game (the so-called superstar treatment) won't play a factor anymore when Gordon starts getting the calls Wade does.


----------



## truebluefan

Ron Cey said:


> You are, of course, correct. Frankly, I doubt that the play call was "Noc, you catch and shoot it immediately even if under pressure from 26 feet." No way. Noc rushed it. Plain and simple. If that was Skiles' call, it was a bad call.
> 
> He also committed a couple of big turnovers, as did Hinrich. It was disappointing. What is encouraging, though, is that even with Shaq playing "like Shaq" and with Wade carrying the team on his shoulders in the 4th quarter, the Bulls were right in it even on the road.
> 
> Its going to be a series. Especially if we can get Deng playing like Deng. I stand by my "Heat in 6" prediction and I expect most of the games to be battles.
> 
> *And PowerWoofer*, I know you have passion and all, but you need to have a beer or a bubble-bath or whatever it is that soothes you. The Heat are the #2 seed for a reason - they're better. As you follow sports, your team is going to lose games. That doesn't mean the team you follow "sucks" or that they don't have a good future. Judging by your post about not following the Jordan Era, I take it you are younger. Following a team and watching it develop is a process, as you will see.
> 
> Jordon failed to get out of the *first round of the playoffs for 4 yea*rs. It took him *7 years to even get to the Finals.* This stuff doesn't happen overnight - even with elite talent - as much as we might want it too. I would recommend that you study the history of some of the truly great teams in the history of the league and the challenges and losses they had to overcome before becoming champions. That might give you some reassuring perspective as you follow this team and watch it develope.


Well put!!


----------



## DaBullz

I looked through the various game recaps and could not barely find a mention of Nocioni's shot. You'd think the sportswriters would be all over it.

I did find this, which indicates they called a play for Nocioni to take the three.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...gamer,1,4613130.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines

He helped the Bulls overcome a 14-point first-half deficit. But he couldn't get the ball late, and a potential tying three-pointer was set up for Andres Nocioni with 15.9 seconds left. Nocioni missed the 25-footer and finished with 18 points and 16 rebounds.


----------



## step

It's quite funny really, take a gander at the game thread over on the Heat board, you'll end up seeing both teams complaining about the treatment from the refs.


----------



## PowerWoofer

I know that building a championship team is a long process, it's just that I wonder if we're building to get there, and *how long will it take to get back there, if we ever do at all*. It takes a ton of talent and the right mix of players to earn the right to be named champions. We have all the cohesiveness in the world, but we lack the talent to put us over the top. If Paxson can find it in himself to take a gamble on someone this summer, and it pays off, then all is forgiven, but right now, this team is far from a finished product, like Skiles said in the post-game interview. We still need a frontcourt, and we need someone who can relieve pressure off of Gordon, because he can't do everything by himself. Even Jordan needed good teammates to get the best out of himself. This has to be our summer to capitalize on our assets. I still wonder if Pax is smart enough to take a chance on some unproven guy with talent in order to get us to another level.

And a side note, watching that 40 year anniversary video really made this whole loss seem a lot easier to watch than it was. I watched that video at least 30 times, and I still would have loved to be around to watch Jordan play in those days. This franchise does have history, dating back to its first couple years. I just hope that we are in for some memorable runs in the playoffs for the next decade. I want us to win so bad, because of the standard Jordan set for this team. He set it so high, that the only way to get back to it is by winning a championship. Now I'm not saying we're that good, but I hope that Paxson makes the right moves that will push us in that direction, and I hope next year will be different in terms of *where we should be*, and *where we will be*.

GO BULLS!! WE STILL HAVE A SERIES TO WIN!


----------



## Ron Cey

PowerWoofer said:


> I know that building a championship team is a long process, it's just that I wonder if we're building to get there, and *how long will it take to get back there, if we ever do at all*. It takes a ton of talent and the right mix of players to earn the right to be named champions. We have all the cohesiveness in the world, but we lack the talent to put us over the top. If Paxson can find it in himself to take a gamble on someone this summer, and it pays off, then all is forgiven, but right now, this team is far from a finished product, like Skiles said in the post-game interview. We still need a frontcourt, and we need someone who can relieve pressure off of Gordon, because he can't do everything by himself. Even Jordan needed good teammates to get the best out of himself. This has to be our summer to capitalize on our assets. I still wonder if Pax is smart enough to take a chance on some unproven guy with talent in order to get us to another level.
> 
> And a side note, watching that 40 year anniversary video really made this whole loss seem a lot easier to watch than it was. I watched that video at least 30 times, and I still would have loved to be around to watch Jordan play in those days. This franchise does have history, dating back to its first couple years. I just hope that we are in for some memorable runs in the playoffs for the next decade. I want us to win so bad, because of the standard Jordan set for this team. He set it so high, that the only way to get back to it is by winning a championship. Now I'm not saying we're that good, but I hope that Paxson makes the right moves that will push us in that direction, and I hope next year will be different in terms of *where we should be*, and *where we will be*.
> 
> GO BULLS!! WE STILL HAVE A SERIES TO WIN!


We won't be playing in the Finals next year either, if thats your timeline. Since you are aware that it is not a finished product, then perhaps you shouldn't get so worked up about how bad the team "sucks" when a superior, veteran laden team beats us in a playoff game. 

The current core of this team consists of a 23 year old, a 3rd year player, and four 2nd year players. It took Michael Jordan - the greatest basketball player EVER - *7 years * to lead a team (that included the great Scottie Pippen) out of the Eastern Conference playoffs. During that 7 years, Krause tinkered with the team constantly to try and get the right mix of players.

Think about that. Then think about the youth of this team. Then think about your question about "how long will it take"? 

A team isn't made or broken in one offseason unless: (a) you draft Tim Duncan; or (b) Shaq leaves you as a free agent to go to the Lakers.

Though this summer is indoubtedly very important, the Bulls will not be made or broken this offseason. They can't lose a player of that caliber, nor can they obtain one. They can, and had damn well better, make solid moves to improve this team so that it becomes more and more of a contender season after season.


----------



## PowerWoofer

Ron Cey said:


> We won't be playing in the Finals next year either, if thats your timeline. Since you are aware that it is not a finished product, then perhaps you shouldn't get so worked up about how bad the team "sucks" when a superior, veteran laden team beats us in a playoff game.
> 
> The current core of this team consists of a 23 year old, a 3rd year player, and four 2nd year players. It took Michael Jordan - the greatest basketball player EVER - *7 years * to lead a team (that included the great Scottie Pippen) out of the Eastern Conference playoffs. During that 7 years, Krause tinkered with the team constantly to try and get the right mix of players.
> 
> Think about that. Then think about the youth of this team. Then think about your question about "how long will it take"?
> 
> A team isn't made or broken in one offseason unless: (a) you draft Tim Duncan; or (b) Shaq leaves you as a free agent to go to the Lakers.
> 
> Though this summer is indoubtedly very important, the Bulls will not be made or broken this offseason. They can't lose a player of that caliber, nor can they obtain one. They can, and had damn well better, make solid moves to improve this team so that it becomes more and more of a contender season after season.


I never said I thought that we could be competing for the title next season. I said that I hope we get to that level in a couple years (3, hopefully). BUT, I want us to get past the first round next year, because if we lose to Miami, which I believe is the reality of the situation, then we'll have two first round exits. Two should be enough. That's enough experience to know how to play in the playoffs, and be able to get past the first round. Oh, and next year, anything below 6th sixth is a disappointment. We cannot hope to win a series against a team like Detroit or Miami. And I agree with you that this team is still too young. But the way they play makes me feel like we should be winning, because they are always in games, no matter how young the team is.

And there was another offseason that destroyed a certain team: that would be the summer of '98 in Chicago, when all hell broke loose, and what was a proud and talented championship team turned into a laughingstock of the NBA for six straight seasons. So yeah, sometimes it happens. But we've recovered, and next season should be our time to advance to the 2nd round. Why anyone would think anything below 6th seed is OK is beyond me. I think this team is better than 7th seed, they just didn't win the games they should have. But next year they need to win. Paxson has been waiting for a summer like this, and now that he has it, he has to cash in and get some pieces that will help this team. He also has to get rid of the dead weight on this team. (Every big on the roster, and if Chandler could be traded for a servicable big on offense, I'd ship his *** out of Chicago as well.)


----------



## maswe12

step said:


> It's quite funny really, take a gander at the game thread over on the Heat board, you'll end up seeing both teams complaining about the treatment from the refs.


Yeah its pretty funny how we can ignore bad calls for the other team and only really pay attention to and remember the calls against our own. Its especially funny with a guy like shaq who is like an abstract foul....theres always a foul and everyone sees it differently as to whether its on him or against him. Also with Wade...hes a kamakazi and falls even without contact...so its easy for us to complain about missed calls because on TV you only see your guy tumbling all over the place. Its all in the eyesof the beholder---it doesnt help that NBA refs are consistently inconsistent and probably the worst of any of the major sports. Usually both sets of fans end up unhappy.


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## Ron Cey

> I never said I thought that we could be competing for the title next season. I said that I hope we get to that level in a couple years (3, hopefully).


Well, that would be 5 years in the playoffs for this team. It took Jordan and Scottie's Bulls 7 years. And they were pretty good basketball players.



> BUT, *I want us to get past the first round next year*, because if we lose to Miami, which I believe is the reality of the situation, then we'll have two first round exits.


Well, I do to. And I agree that this is the reality of the situation.



> Two should be enough. That's enough experience to know how to play in the playoffs, and be able to get past the first round.


Tell that to MJ and Scottie. MJ's Bulls didn't get past the first round of the playoffs until his 4th try. His first three trips to the playoffs (when he was approximately the same age or older than Ben/Deng/Du/Chandler/Hinrich) he tallied a whopping *1 playoff win in three years*. 1-9 to be exact (the current Bulls have already doubled that playoff win total). 

Here's a breakdown:

1984-1985 (went down 1-3 against the Bucks - average margin of defeat: 8 ppg.)
1885-1986 (swept by Boston - average margin of defeat: 17 ppg.)
1986-1987 (swept by Boston again - average margin of defeat: 8 ppg.)

The Bulls eventually got past the first round in year 4 - barely. Cleveland took them to the 5th game of a 5 game series. The Bulls outscored the Cavs by a whopping 8 points - *for the entire series*. 

They then proceeded to get drubbed by Detroit 4 games to 1 in the semis - losing those 4 games by an average of 15 points each. 

MJ's Bulls didn't make it the Eastern Conference Finals until his 5th year in the playoffs. Got beat by Detroit. 

Then his 6th year in the playoffs. Got beat by Detroit again.



> Oh, and next year, anything below 6th sixth is a disappointment.


I agree with that.



> We cannot hope to win a series against a team like Detroit or Miami.


As to Detroit, I would agree with that. We still won't be in their class next year. I'm not so sure about Miami. Heck, I still think its *possible* we can take this series.



> And I agree with you that this team is still too young. But the way they play makes me feel like we should be winning, because they are always in games, no matter how young the team is.


That sounds like a good thing.



> And there was another offseason that destroyed a certain team: that would be the summer of '98 in Chicago, when all hell broke loose, and what was a proud and talented championship team turned into a laughingstock of the NBA for six straight seasons. So yeah, sometimes it happens. But we've recovered, and next season should be our time to advance to the 2nd round. *Why anyone would think anything below 6th seed is OK is beyond me.*


*Does* anyone think that?



> I think this team is better than 7th seed, they just didn't win the games they should have.


Then why do you always say they "suck"?



> But next year they need to win. Paxson has been waiting for a summer like this, and now that he has it, he has to cash in and get some pieces that will help this team.


No doubt about it.


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## PowerWoofer

Ron Cey said:


> Well, that would be 5 years in the playoffs for this team. It took Jordan and Scottie's Bulls 7 years. And they were pretty good basketball players.
> 
> Tell that to MJ and Scottie. MJ's Bulls didn't get past the first round of the playoffs until his 4th try. His first three trips to the playoffs (when he was approximately the same age or older than Ben/Deng/Du/Chandler/Hinrich) he tallied a whopping *1 playoff win in three years*. 1-9 to be exact (the current Bulls have already doubled that playoff win total).
> 
> Here's a breakdown:
> 
> 1984-1985 (went down 1-3 against the Bucks - average margin of defeat: 8 ppg.)
> 1885-1986 (swept by Boston - average margin of defeat: 17 ppg.)
> 1986-1987 (swept by Boston again - average margin of defeat: 8 ppg.)
> 
> The Bulls eventually got past the first round in year 4 - barely. Cleveland took them to the 5th game of a 5 game series. The Bulls outscored the Cavs by a whopping 8 points - *for the entire series*.
> 
> They then proceeded to get drubbed by Detroit 4 games to 1 in the semis - losing those 4 games by an average of 15 points each.
> 
> MJ's Bulls didn't make it the Eastern Conference Finals until his 5th year in the playoffs. Got beat by Detroit.
> 
> Then his 6th year in the playoffs. Got beat by Detroit again.
> 
> Then why do you always say they "suck"?


Ron, take a good look at the East. I'm sure you're smart enough to know that most teams in the East are either rebuilding, stuck in mediocrity, or just plain suck ***. It's not what it used to be 10, 15 years ago when MJ dominated the league. Now, the Bulls could beat half of the teams in the East *right now*, and they could possibly get past a bunch of teams if they only had some frontcourt whatsoever.

And about the "why do you always say they suck" thing, it's because they lost so many games they should have won this season. I mean, they made it hard on themselves, and when they were faced with pressure, they crumbled. That's why I think *this* team sucks. The Bulls don't suck as a whole, but the team that's on the court right now sucks at times. And that's why this summer is important for Paxson. He needs to get rid of the guys that can't play, and he needs to get guys in here that can mesh well with our guards, and that can actually dunk and play in the post! It's embarrasing watching guys like Sweetney and Chandler trying to get shots in, only to get massively rejected, or sometimes airball their shots. That's what needs to change next year. We need some talent, and badly!


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## Ron Cey

> Ron, take a good look at the East. I'm sure you're smart enough to know that most teams in the East are either rebuilding, stuck in mediocrity, or just plain suck ***. It's not what it used to be 10, 15 years ago when MJ dominated the league. Now, the Bulls could beat half of the teams in the East *right now*, and they could possibly get past a bunch of teams if they only had some frontcourt whatsoever.


As with most seasons, when MJ was struggling to win in the playoffs there were a couple of excellent playoff teams in the East, and the rest were mediocre. Yet he and Scottie still struggled for years.

I only point this out to give you some perspective on your lack of patience with this current team. Think about this chronology and the struggles of the greatest team and player in the history of the NBA next time you go off your rocker after the Bulls drop a game to a better, veteran laden team.

Its just food for thought. But I think its important that we, as fans of this team, keep these things in mind after both wins and losses. As fans of the Chicago Bulls we are uniquely positioned to appreciate how long it takes to build a championship caliber team - even when that team is stocked with two of the greatest to ever play the game. For more on this concept, read my sig.



> And about the "why do you always say they suck" thing, it's because they lost so many games they should have won this season. I mean, they made it hard on themselves, and when they were faced with pressure, they crumbled. That's why I think *this* team sucks. The Bulls don't suck as a whole, but the team that's on the court right now sucks at times. And that's why this season is important for Paxson. He needs to get rid of the guys that can't play, and he needs to get guys in here that can mesh well with our guards, and that can actually dunk and play in the post! It's embarrasing watching guys like Sweetney and Chandler trying to get shots in, only to get massively rejected, or sometimes airball their shot. That's what needs to change next year. We need some talent, and badly!


I don't really think anyone disagrees a whole lot with that assessment. But this team doesn't suck. Its a shockingly inexperienced and youthful playoff team that can't contend. Your definition of what "sucks" is evidently more broad than mine.


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## The 6ft Hurdle

We may have been out-free-throwed, outhost, but we should have won yesterday, especially after Tyson had dunked home Ben Gordon's missed lay-up.

All the elements were in place, and then we went into one of those phases where Ben doesn't get the ball and suddenly our team starts looking "young" and "inexperienced."

I think everyone on this team has that spirit and belief that they can fight from behind, but I don't think anyone besides Ben actually has any confidence at all in these super-tight clutch situations. That is they don't "believe" that the lead is theirs, as in they are thinking "it's just a matter of time before this superpower Miami wakes up and reclaims its lead." 

Our players are particularly good at making sure we don't fall completely off the scoreboard. Kirk and Noc can definitely get us into tied games, but it's for the lead, they are not likely to produce or at least sustain it. They can make a few good plays in the clutch, but it's usually just to make sure that we don't fall way behind. 

Ben Gordon should be the only guy playing offense in those super-tight situations. He was outdoing Dwyane Wade and he looked a lot smoother doing it. 35 points and he didn't even touch the ball very much in the mid-4th quarter.


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## PowerWoofer

Ron Cey said:


> As with most seasons, when MJ was struggling to win in the playoffs there were a couple of excellent playoff teams in the East, and the rest were mediocre. Yet he and Scottie still struggled for years.
> 
> I only point this out to give you some perspective on your lack of patience with this current team. Think about this chronology and the struggles of the greatest team and player in the history of the NBA next time you go off your rocker after the Bulls drop a game to a better, veteran laden team.
> 
> Its just food for thought. But I think its important that we, as fans of this team, keep these things in mind after both wins and losses. As fans of the Chicago Bulls we are uniquely positioned to appreciate how long it takes to build a championship caliber team - even when that team is stocked with two of the greatest to ever play the game. For more on this concept, read my sig.
> 
> I don't really think anyone disagrees a whole lot with that assessment. But this team doesn't suck. Its a shockingly inexperienced and youthful playoff team that can't contend. Your definition of what "sucks" is evidently more broad than mine.


Since I wasn't around to watch this team evolve into what became six titles, I will have to agree that patience is needed. It's just hard to contain my hate for losing at times. It's my fault, and I take full responsibility for it. And yeah, things could be worse, I guess.

I think that this team needs to evolve now, just like Jordan's teams did. If we ever want to get farther, we need to get better every year. Going backwards doesn't help, and that's why I've been disappointed, because they took a step back from what was an amazing rookie season for a lot or our core players. Now we have to wait and see what happens in the summer, and even in this series against Miami. Hope is not all lost, but there sure is more hope of Miami winning than Chicago. So next year has to be our breakout year, after what's happened to us so far. That's my view of where this team has to be.


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## Ron Cey

PowerWoofer said:


> Since I wasn't around to watch this team evolve into what became six titles, I will have to agree that patience is needed. It's just hard to contain my hate for losing at times. It's my fault, and I take full responsibility for it.


There's no "fault" to it, man. I'm just trying to help you out. Describe the history of the legendary Bulls teams, so that you can see that even the greatest of the great took time to develop a record of success in the playoffs. 

You seem to get very upset with the losses, and when you said you weren't around the for Jordan years, I figured you'd be interested to know how hard it was - and how long a process it was - even for those legends. They failed. A lot.

Like I said, it just gives us all a little perspective on whats going on now. 

You have passion for the success of the team. Thats the way it should be. But a little dose of patience is needed to maintain one's sanity. :biggrin: 

Peace.


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## PowerWoofer

Ron Cey said:


> There's no "fault" to it, man. I'm just trying to help you out. Describe the history of the legendary Bulls teams, so that you can see that even the greatest of the great took time to develop a record of success in the playoffs.
> 
> You seem to get very upset with the losses, and when you said you weren't around the for Jordan years, I figured you'd be interested to know how hard it was - and how long a process it was - even for those legends. They failed. A lot.
> 
> Like I said, it just gives us all a little perspective on whats going on now.
> 
> You have passion for the success of the team. Thats the way it should be. But a little dose of patience is needed to maintain one's sanity. :biggrin:
> 
> Peace.


I see what you're trying to do, and thanks. I see that yeah, even the great ones need time to get where they want to go.

That deserves rep. lol

:greatjob:


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## anorexorcist

^^Agreed, let's just hope Pax and co. feel that way too, and hopefully don't decide to blow up/split up the team!


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