# Jermaine on NBA Nation - Hear Him Out



## elphenom (Nov 27, 2004)

Hey I just read a great piece at one my favorite NBA sites, www.nbasource.com. Anyways, they talked about Jermaine O'Neal and his comments yesterday. But apparently Jermaine was on NBA Nation last night for 25 minutes and made some very compelling points and said his racise remarks were mislead. It was cool because somehow the author had Jermaine's comments quoted word by word and to be honest, the man makes some good points. It was better to hear him really get to speak out about the issue rather than have two brief comments quoted by him. I like and respect Jermaine O'Neal, so if you do too, I suggest you lend him an ear.


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## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

If Jermaine could clean up his grammar and work on his speach a bit, he'd make a great spokesman. That article was very well written and props to Jermaine for coming out about such a big thing in the NBA these days, that could put him on the Commish's "People to shoot with spitwads..." list.


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## StephenJackson (Oct 28, 2004)

PHeNoM Z28 said:


> If Jermaine could clean up his grammar and work on his speach a bit, he'd make a great spokesman. That article was very well written and props to Jermaine for coming out about such a big thing in the NBA these days, that could put him on the Commish's "People to shoot with spitwads..." list.


Come on man, don't bring that garbage around here. Anybody who knows anything about JO knows that he is very well spoken. Look at some of his appearances on talk shows and some of his other interviews. He's a bright kid, especially considering he didn't go to college.


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## Tooeasy (Nov 4, 2003)

PHeNoM Z28 said:


> If Jermaine could clean up his grammar and work on his speach a bit, he'd make a great spokesman. That article was very well written and props to Jermaine for coming out about such a big thing in the NBA these days, that could put him on the Commish's "People to shoot with spitwads..." list.


if you would've seen the debate, you'd be able to tell that jermaine doesn't need to work on his grammar or speech to be better than any other espn analyist currently employed. He brought some very good points to the table, and he did it in a very dignified and respectable manner. He was very clear to point out that he didnt think that stern or any major league sports commish was racist, and then made his points as to why implementing an age limit would be racist against black males, which I actually believe to be somewhat true.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

What I didn't like about Jermaine's comments were how they were recieved. He made very good points, and he articulated them well--but on the talk shows it was all about these louadmouth sports "journalists" telling him to shut up, and that maybe he should have gone to school.

Jermaine O'neal is one of the more articulate people in basketball. The NBA actually does have a lot of guys who are pretty sharp. But they don't often speak up, because they more often than not will get blasted in the press.


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## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

> The questions that was asked to me was is it because you guys is black





> I know that the facts is that 13,14 15 year olds are able to decide whether they want to go play a pro sport, but it's no issue.





> It's easy for people to analyze stuff sitting on a panel, but they don't know where these kids is coming from.


Sorry, but thats not exactly grade A engrish material right there... Like I said, if he can work on clearing up the language some, he could be a VERY good spokesman/analyst/whatever the hell he wants to be involving debate because the cake is all there. He just has to work on the frosting a bit :wink:


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

PHeNoM Z28 said:


> Sorry, but thats not exactly grade A engrish material right there... Like I said, if he can work on clearing up the language some, he could be a VERY good spokesman/analyst/whatever the hell he wants to be involving debate because the cake is all there. He just has to work on the frosting a bit :wink:


Why does grammar matter in speech? This reminds me of when Pan Mengtu created a thread solely because Carmelo used a double-negative in an interview.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

I go to college, and don't use proper grammar. :rofl:

That doesn't make him unintelligent, or any of that nonsense.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> The NBA actually does have a lot of guys who are pretty sharp. But they don't often speak up, because they more often than not will get blasted in the press.


Bingo.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

He's saying white America doesn't care about age limits in other sports because more white people play them

thats a racist comment itself. Jermaine Oneal is a racist imo


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## Sad Mafioso (Nov 7, 2004)

I actually think Jermaine has a point or two in his little rant.

He probably has some leverage in arguing that some high school players are very successful immediately but everything past that seems to be complete hogwash. In order to support an age limit you must blindly adopt the position that NBA ready basketball skills and an NBA level of emotional maturity are positiviely correlated with the progression of age, college basketball experience, the exposure to college coaching and academic experience. The more, the better. Many high school players live up to their hype. For them, the money they make over the course of their playing careers will be enough to support them for the remainder of their lives. However, some high school players will inevitably bust, while others will have promising careers cut short by injury. These players will be forced to find work outside of basketball in order to pay their bills. And having dedicated their high school years to athletic rather than academic pursuits, they'll be poorly equipped to do this.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

ansoncarter said:


> He's saying white America doesn't care about age limits in other sports because more white people play them
> 
> thats a racist comment itself. Jermaine Oneal is a racist imo


Why _doesn't_ "white America" care about age limits in other sports?


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

^racist


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

remember Jermaine took that flying punch at a Detroit fan? guess what colour his skin was. Same colour as the guy Artest went after.

this is my conclusion:
Artest=racist
Jermaine=racist
Stern=jewish
Vince=pansy and racist (hates black people though. not white)


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

ansoncarter said:


> remember Jermaine took that flying punch at a Detroit fan? guess what colour his skin was. Same colour as the guy Artest went after.
> 
> this is my conclusion:
> Artest=racist
> ...


Your posts in this thread really aren't productive. You need to work on your definition of racist a little more. I would reccomend finding an excellent article by Beverly Daniel Tatum on the issue called "Defining Racism: "Can We Talk?""

Anyways. Anyone watch NBA fastbreak, the ESPN pregame? Anthony and Stephen A. got into it. I thought Stephen A. just came off as his usual loud mouth ignorant self--he wasn't even really disagreeing with Anthony, except that he wanted to portray JO as ignorant--and Anthony wouldn't let him. Which I was feeling.

I despise how the media is trying to portray JO. And some people in this thread. Putting his language under such scrutiny.

But who is a better speaker: JO with no college education or our President a C-student at Yale? My vote goes for JO. But because JO is an athlete he is just supposed to shut up and play. Which is not cool in the slightest. These athletes are human beings just like me and you. And yet we don't allow them to be it so often. Sports journalism is sick sick sick.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

here is some production

Jermaine made a racist comment. Anyone deny that? or is calling white America racist not a racist comment 
(assuming thats what he said. I didn't read it because I don't care lol)


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

The guy Jermaine punched was Mexican, not white. Sorry, try again clown. As to the media coming down on Jermaine O'Neal, is one of the prime examples why black celebrities do not speak up for fear of being torn apart by the media. The only time you see them speak up, is when they are past their primes. Just once I wish people weren't scared to speak their minds. That's why Shaq and MJ never speak on social issues, because they'd prefer to keep making their money with no hassle. 

Like they should shut up, because they are paid well. Sooner or later someone's not going to be afraid to speak out and silenced.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

ansoncarter said:


> ^racist


Why?


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## Baron Davis (Apr 14, 2004)

What's wrong with Jermaine O'Neal? Just because he has a little bit of slang in his speech means he's stupid? Most of the time in interviews, he always speaks very mannerly, with good grammar. 
Compare that to the other people in the league, who say "you know" every other damn sentence when someone is trying to interview them.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

I find it funny people equate college with intelligence...

Some of the dumbest people I've ever met attend my school (U of Miami), why are they here?

Because going to college (for a lot of people) is the "thing to do" and their parents can pay for them to go here, that has nothing to do with intelligence.

Furthermore, if anyone's ever read Jane Addams, I agree with her belief that one reason a lot of young people go to school (especially beyond undergraduate work) is because they really don't know how to or can't be anything other than students, what does that say about those people's intelligence?


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

HKF said:


> The guy Jermaine punched was Mexican, not white. Sorry, try again clown. As to the media coming down on Jermaine O'Neal, is one of the prime examples why black celebrities do not speak up for fear of being torn apart by the media. The only time you see them speak up, is when they are past their primes. Just once I wish people weren't scared to speak their minds. That's why Shaq and MJ never speak on social issues, because they'd prefer to keep making their money with no hassle.
> 
> Like they should shut up, because they are paid well. Sooner or later someone's not going to be afraid to speak out and silenced.


So, are you saying Shaq and MJ are pure "uncle Toms"?

Not that i disagree with you, but i wish you would elaborate it further, HKF...

Please, go ahead... i guess you aren't risking getting fired, like Hodges was when he questoned Jordan's commitment to help black people...


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

Spriggan said:


> Why?


just messing around. sorry


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## thegza (Feb 18, 2003)

To tell you the truth, I found nothing wrong with Jermaine O'Neal's comments. In fact, I strongly agree with him. I saw him on NBA Nation last night, and I saw a guy that was speaking from experience, and although Greg Anthony said it best for him and made it more clear for the audience, but anyone can understand what JO was coming from and trying to say.

He did it the correct way, and in no way, shape or form was directly calling anyone from the NBA's front action racist. But, when common sense strikes, the facts have proven that many high school players are now the face of the league and not only bring in the media and hype, but bring fans to fill seats in the arenas. So, what really is the problem? I doubt Stern and co. care that much about the few bust, they are rewarded with huge guaranteed contracts, that, if saved correctly, could do them good for a large enough portion of their life.

Major kudos to O'Neal.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

HKF said:


> The guy Jermaine punched was Mexican, not white. Sorry, try again clown. As to the media coming down on Jermaine O'Neal, is one of the prime examples why black celebrities do not speak up for fear of being torn apart by the media. The only time you see them speak up, is when they are past their primes. Just once I wish people weren't scared to speak their minds. That's why Shaq and MJ never speak on social issues, because they'd prefer to keep making their money with no hassle.
> 
> Like they should shut up, because they are paid well. Sooner or later someone's not going to be afraid to speak out and silenced.


you mention black celebrities so I assume you mean the white media is racist

thats a racist remark imo


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

i dont think him making a comment about the age limit is a racist statment he's just not right. the whole age limit thing is brought on because too many guys who arent ready are going to the league. i see some of the biggest offenders being europeans like tskitishville and darko, throw in robert swift while your at it. the differance between nba and mlb is obviously the abscence of a viable minor league system. trust me if baseball didnt have a minor league system then kids wouldnt be drafted out of highschool. i am actually for an age limit untill a true developemental league is in place. i dont like seeing some veteran,who actually knows how to play,being kicked out of the league because some highschooler is on the bench.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

You mean like Kevin Willis?


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## RPGMan (Mar 31, 2005)

Jermaine should learn before making his comments that any sort of age limit the NBA may impose cannot and is not considered unconstitutional.


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

When I read his "media-twisted" words, I never found anything offensive with anything Jermaine said. And that's after the media strained it to become more interesting and controversial. Tell me if I'm wrong. Adding an age limit to the NBA is depriving a lot of high school level black athletes of a (most of the time) multi-million dollar financial option and forcing them to go to College whereas most likely they're going pro because they need the money and College will only cost them.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

The fact that some of the league's most marketable players (superstars) are guys either straight from HS or spent 1-2 years (max) in college makes this rule ridiculous.

The day David Stern can look OJ Mayo in the eye and say...

"Young man, you can go die on foreign soil fighting for this country tomorrow, but you could not play in the NBA."

Then I will no longer have any objections.

Someone made a smart remark about this isn't racially motivated, because ya "David Stern is trying to keep a brother like "Robert Swift" down..."

Please how many Robert Swift's have there been?

Speaking of him did he catch any flak for going early? Did Kris Humphries (most people don't know his father is African-American)?

Did anyone say maybe their grades are bad or their families were poor and that's why they needed to make the jump?

No because of who/what they are.

Unfortunately even though it's 2005, race is ALWAYS a factor, regardless of the subject. I'm not for this because what does it really do?

Does the NBA care that much that roster spots occupied by Dorell Wright, Darko, etc. are being taken so guys like Dennis Scott, Dana Barros, insert any older vet, can't get back in the league?

Why care about them? What revenue are they generating? What veterans who would take the IR spots occupied by the young kids right now would generate any real revenue for the league?

Why push this rule a year after the deepest high school class in the history of the game declares?

Does someone need to remind David Stern who won the dunk contest this year? The same kid that has revitalized one of the worst franchises in the league? I mean hell, do you think Usher and all those other celebrities from ATL go to games solely because the Hawks marketing director (can't think of name) had the genius idea to get them there? Maybe he did, but you better damn well believe when his account execs are calling those people they mention Mr. Josh Smith's name, some people go just because they want to see who he will dunk on next....(btw what a basketball player, I want Jay Bilas to personally apologize during this year's airing of the draft).

Shaun Livingston is making it exciting again to be a Clips fan, our season is over, but who cares, I could watch him play all day...

And obviously there's a host of other high school guys doing their thing...

Considering the success rate of the prep to pro guys, an age limit at this point really doesn't make sense, and JO isn't off base at all with his comments.

I'm all for the minor league system, if you want to draft Gerald Green then tell him he's gotta go play in Greenville for the year but he'll still be paid his money fine, but if you're going to force Greg Oden, Derrick Caracter, OJ Mayo, etc. to go to school for the betterment of the NCAA (biggest crooks in sports), and washed up, sorry *** vets, and deprive young (mostly black men) of their potential earning power as professional basketball players, then screw the NBA, and I'll ask DirectTV to start some kind of Euroleague League Pass and I'll pay $200 a year for that instead.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

arenas809 said:


> The fact that some of the league's most marketable players (superstars) are guys either straight from HS or spent 1-2 years (max) in college makes this rule ridiculous.
> 
> The day David Stern can look OJ Mayo in the eye and say...
> 
> ...



Excellent post.


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

i already addressed this issue in another thread, but as a young black man myself i was sick to my stomach and embarrased to hear him say the things he said. there are hundreds of accurate ways to argue against an age limit, hearing the racism BS is not and wont ever be a part of it.


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## Snicka (Dec 29, 2003)

I just don't understand the whole I'm 18, I can do whatever I want. Especially the war comment. The NBA is a private business and can have any hiring practices it wants as long as it jives with the Equal Employment Opportunity act. If Jermaine can prove disparate impact then I will agree with him. 

Also age discrimination is for only those 40 years and older. 

The NBA is just doing what the NFL does. I think we can all agree its worked out alright for that league.


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

Snicka said:


> I just don't understand the whole I'm 18, I can do whatever I want. Especially the war comment. The NBA is a private business and can have any hiring practices it wants as long as it jives with the Equal Employment Opportunity act. If Jermaine can prove disparate impact then I will agree with him.


exactly. an 18 year old cant drink either. such a racist law.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

PauloCatarino said:


> So, are you saying Shaq and MJ are pure "uncle Toms"?
> 
> Not that i disagree with you, but i wish you would elaborate it further, HKF...
> 
> Please, go ahead... i guess you aren't risking getting fired, like Hodges was when he questoned Jordan's commitment to help black people...


Maybe some other time my friend, but this has been a problem for a very long time and I'm not going to call any names or say anything. However, I'll just say that most are afraid to say what they really want to, for fear of losing their cash cow. If they can wake up in the morning and feel good about themselves, then so be it.

I don't really think what Jermaine was talking about was racism in and of itself. Listen, why don't people want to see an minor league? Where guys can actually work on all their skills for a change? College basketball glory does not prepare you for NBA playoff glory. It's not the same thing. This is no one and done crap shoot. This is where we separate the men from the boys. College basketball will survive without the blue chippers if they choose to go to a minor league. Quite frankly, colleges should be about educating young men and women, not taking advantage of them and then getting mad when their cash cow dries up.

College basketball is niche viewership sport anyway. I love it, but most people don't even watch till filling out their brackets. That's how you know it's almost meaningless in the regular season.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

HKF said:


> Maybe some other time my friend, but this has been a problem for a very long time and I'm not going to call any names or say anything. However, I'll just say that most are afraid to say what they really want to, for fear of losing their cash cow. If they can wake up in the morning and feel good about themselves, then so be it.
> 
> I don't really think what Jermaine was talking about was racism in and of itself. Listen, why don't people want to see an minor league? Where guys can actually work on all their skills for a change? College basketball glory does not prepare you for NBA playoff glory. It's not the same thing. This is no one and done crap shoot. This is where we separate the men from the boys. College basketball will survive without the blue chippers if they choose to go to a minor league. Quite frankly, colleges should be about educating young men and women, not taking advantage of them and then getting mad when their cash cow dries up.
> 
> College basketball is niche viewership sport anyway. I love it, but most people don't even watch till filling out their brackets. That's how you know it's almost meaningless in the regular season.


Great post.


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

HKF said:


> I don't really think what Jermaine was talking about was racism in and of itself. Listen, why don't people want to see an minor league? Where guys can actually work on all their skills for a change? College basketball glory does not prepare you for NBA playoff glory. It's not the same thing. This is no one and done crap shoot. This is where we separate the men from the boys. College basketball will survive without the blue chippers if they choose to go to a minor league. Quite frankly, colleges should be about educating young men and women, not taking advantage of them and then getting mad when their cash cow dries up.


colleges are gonna still make money with or without these guys, i dont see too many coaches or ad's complaining. duke and unc and uconn are gonna be good and make millions with or without an age limit. a minor league would be a good idea but its also a complicated idea and a costly one. an age limit is the simplest and easiest idea.


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i just feel it should be up to the person. they are men. if a man wants to play basketball why should he not? it isn't illegal. so what if he might suck in the NBA? thats his problem. he made the decision and he had the opportunity. and if a vet is mad that a young player is taking up his time, so what? you had your time. not it's someone else's turn. if they are better than you they deserve your spot.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Rookie contracts are long enough, and some of these players are coming into the league as pretty damn good players. It wouldn't be very fair for players like Amare Stoudemire and LeBron James to have to play out rookie contracts until they're 25 just because Stern wants to eliminate the stupid mistakes of general managers who don't know what they're doing. Why penalize the great young players for the mistakes of the general managers? Why penalize the great young players for the not-so-great high schoolers thinking they're better than they really are and declaring for the NBA when they obviously aren't ready or good enough. 

Stern does a lot of stupid things, so this falls right in line with that.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

> The NBA is just doing what the NFL does. I think we can all agree its worked out alright for that league.


the nfl is different, you need those years to prepare your body or literally, you will be killed out there on the field. dwight howard and josh smith look far from dead over here in my vantage point.



> exactly. an 18 year old cant drink either. such a racist law.


wow. you totally missed the point my son. look in the sky, see that? thats the message flying past you.


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## Phenom Z28 (Nov 22, 2004)

Baron Davis said:


> What's wrong with Jermaine O'Neal? Just because he has a little bit of slang in his speech means he's stupid? Most of the time in interviews, he always speaks very mannerly, with good grammar.
> Compare that to the other people in the league, who say "you know" every other damn sentence when someone is trying to interview them.


I hate it when people go and put words into other people's mouths...

ALL I said in my original post is that if he worked on his articulation, he would be a GREAT spokesman/analyst/debator. I'm not saying he's stupid, I'm not calling him any names, I'm just saying that he is obviously very intelligent and knows how to get his words across. All he has to do is take a speach class and he'd have a great career in broadcasting or something of the sort after basketball, and I'd enjoy listening to him.

GOD!  ....


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Debt Collector said:


> colleges are gonna still make money with or without these guys, i dont see too many coaches or ad's complaining. duke and unc and uconn are gonna be good and make millions with or without an age limit. a minor league would be a good idea but its also a complicated idea and a costly one. an age limit is the simplest and easiest idea.


Its pretty simple as I don't think you have any concept of skills development for basketball players. Who cares if a minor league is costly? Are you paying for it? The NBDL has just expanded to 10 teams for a reason. The minor league is going to happen. It's a reality, not complicated at all.


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## Meatwad (Feb 18, 2005)

arenas809 said:


> The fact that some of the league's most marketable players (superstars) are guys either straight from HS or spent 1-2 years (max) in college makes this rule ridiculous.
> 
> The day David Stern can look OJ Mayo in the eye and say...
> 
> ...


excellent post. most reasonable people are for a real minor league system under those conditions. even tracy mcgrady agrees:



> *Favoring minor league*
> 
> As one of the more celebrated and successful NBA players to jump directly from high school, Rockets forward Tracy McGrady defended Pacers forward Jermaine O'Neal's contention that a proposed age requirement appears racially motivated.
> 
> ...


only the college homers want an age minimum on everything because they could care less about these kids and only want them on campus for a couple of years so they can use them. it's funny how they say it's about education when no one graduates in two years. if it's about education you would want a degree min, not an age min. the vast majority of these schools have abysmal graduation rates anyway, especially for the black athletes.


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## -James- (Apr 27, 2004)

Debt Collector said:


> i already addressed this issue in another thread, but as a young black man myself i was sick to my stomach and embarrased to hear him say the things he said. there are hundreds of accurate ways to argue against an age limit, hearing the racism BS is not and wont ever be a part of it.


 as a black guy myself, when i first heard from a local sports caster that "JO feels the age limit to be imposed is based on race", i too felt that this was going to be bad at first. but after hearing him speak, i came to agree with him. he made great points. and rep points to my boy arenas for making a great post.


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## Baron Davis (Apr 14, 2004)

PHeNoM Z28 said:


> I hate it when people go and put words into other people's mouths...
> 
> ALL I said in my original post is that if he worked on his articulation, he would be a GREAT spokesman/analyst/debator. I'm not saying he's stupid, I'm not calling him any names, I'm just saying that he is obviously very intelligent and knows how to get his words across. All he has to do is take a speach class and he'd have a great career in broadcasting or something of the sort after basketball, and I'd enjoy listening to him.
> 
> GOD!  ....


Um, I wasn't referring to you.


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## Starburyown (Mar 26, 2005)

ansoncarter said:


> remember Jermaine took that flying punch at a Detroit fan? guess what colour his skin was. Same colour as the guy Artest went after.
> 
> this is my conclusion:
> Artest=racist
> ...


this is my conclusion:
*edited*
but you're right, stern=***

have a nice day


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

ansoncarter said:


> remember Jermaine took that flying punch at a Detroit fan? guess what colour his skin was. Same colour as the guy Artest went after.
> 
> this is my conclusion:
> Artest=racist
> ...


your post=ridiculous
trying to be funny=not working
baiting=heavily

You posting this nonsense=Stopping right now.

Beez


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