# Official Thread: Detroit vs. Bulls, Thursday 12-12-02



## Good Hope (Nov 27, 2002)

Well, if we can count the Orlando game as part of my streak, I'm 2-0 as the OT starter . So, I will try my hand for number three. 

Jalen is really putting the pressure on his team mates, talking about how this game is on National TV, how they want to show the world that the Bulls are a nice young team, etc. I think that it's good. But how will they respond? Detroit's defensive pressure is just the thing that can crack a young team's confidence. But if the Bulls use the Triangle well, and the point guards keep the ball moving inside, then out, we can win.

I think it'll be close:
Bulls 92 +- 7
Detroit 85 +- 10

How's that for hedging my bets?


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

I agree it will be close and low scoring- i like our chances if hassell can defend Rip fairly well- and marshall at least tries hard on wallace down low- i think we will get them because we have more scoring options- key matchup to look for is Fizer vs Williamson off the bench they both have similar roles- my score is similar to yours

Bulls 87
Pistons 82


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

We need to stop Cliff Robinson and Rip Hamilton. Maybe this can be a game for ERob to show out in helping Hassell limit Rip to below his average. Marshall and Chandler will hopefully able to combine in keeping Cliff Robinson to his normal points.

Detroit's defense doesn't worry me so much, as it appears *we* are the only team that manages to keep us from scoring. I like that Detroit is a lower scoring team, which may work in our favor. 

We're above .500 at home.

I say we win this one by ten, 99-89.

*Go Bulls!*

:rbanana: :wbanana: :rbanana: :wbanana: :rbanana:


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## InPaxWeTrust (Sep 16, 2002)

Wynn good idea on ERob only problem is he isnt going to play( per chicago tribune)- this guy has to go he basically is faking injuries now to avoid playing( it appears that way anyways)


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## robert60446 (Nov 11, 2002)

FOLKS, because Bulls have 2 games wining streak it doesn’t mean that they are a good team! And if we will take a closer look at the Detroit we can see that Pistons are a really good team. In my opinion Detroit is playing very ugly basketball. It’s very hard to watch them. The problem is, it looks like this is a very accurate way to play the ball. With Chicago very poor defense, Pistons can easy improve their shooting percentage too. So, it will be very tough game for the Bulls. Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler from the very begging will have a taste of blocked shoots. I don’t predict a good game for Marshall too. He is using very simple moves to make a shots. The thing is that the boys from Detroit are very quick. On a good side, Pistons are playing 2nd day in the row and maybe they are little tired…and as everybody knows they have problems with offense. My game plan is very simple; don’t count for easy points in the paint, Jay Williams should use his quickness for deep penetrations in order to make an open space for jump shooters. Curry should use his body too. Maybe with the little effort he will be lucky enough to have some rebounds. But on the other hand he is so slow…Anyway I will keep cross fingers for the Bulls. I want to see Detroit on their knees, because they are destroying the whole fun from the playing basketball.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

With Rip being the main scoring threat I think Hassell is the key to Chicago's chances. Rip seems like the kind of guy that Hassell can contain as he's not 6'8" or 6'9" like some of the others. 


Bulls need to try and create as many easy baskets as they can. By Bulls I mean Jalen and Jay need to set people up and not settle for clanking jump shots.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Pistons are 5-5 on the road. Have lost 4 out of the last 6.


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## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

Pistons are a sinking ship. Their offensive struggles are not an illusion. This should play right into the handds of the defensively challenged Bulls. The Bulls take this in a surprisingly easy game at home.


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## Nobull1 (Oct 6, 2002)

Let go Bullies.


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## Killuminati (Jul 30, 2002)

If JWill wants to have another big game, this would be a good team to do it against. Billups has a sore ankle and Atkins just plain cant keep up with Jay. I'd like to see him drive every chance he can get. Prediction:

Bulls- 90
Pistons- 85


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

Bulls 86

Pistons 77


offensive woes continue for the Pistons


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

This appears to be a winnable game, at least on the surface.

If the Bulls don't show the inconsistency they've shown in past games, they will surely win it.

However, I think the matchups are tough for the Bulls. Oh, I think we can effectively stop them on offense, but I think they can effectively stop us, too.

If we come out and shoot a high FG %, the game is ours.

69-65 Bulls.

(An ugly low scoring game)


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Tough start. The Bulls are moving nicely on offense. Good passes turn into missed shots or are fumbled...

The Pistons' D is terrific so far. Quick hands and a great block by Ben Wallace.

15-10 Detroit.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

They are a veteran, well-coached team and it shows. We're a bit sloppy, but hopefully our depth can wear at them until the fourth.

Not sure it can though. I think Orlando opened their eyes and they are determined to keep it from happening.


Still wondering why we didn't grab Robinson instead of Detroit.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

We have 5 turnovers already.

Sheesh


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Awesome block by Marshall and a great save by Rose


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

I do not understand the reason behind Corey Blounts existence.


Hey Corliss! I can recommend a barber...


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Obviously Chandler should be playing, but he's been hurting...

Curry's been beaten badly a number of times already.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Fizer's in, I'd much rather see him than blount...


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Bulls on a nice run to close to within 2.

_really_ low scoring game.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Corey Blount is LeBron James insurance...


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Looks like Chandler's the difference. He's blocking out and rebounding and changing their shots while we peck away at them...


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Marshall sat a long time...

Chandler got beat a couple of times and looked silly, and just fumbled it.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Chandler out, Curry in, Bulls fall behind by 8.


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

*Just got my computer back up...*

I am switching to LEbron James on espn 2 game...this sucks...and is pitiful. Maybe jalen rose will get three quick fouls in the second half and have to sit his ball hoggin butt down. I am sick of this guy....no, I HAVE been sick of em. My right. 32 points in a half is about as sorry as one team can get playing against a team who played the night before.


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

See, its hard to criticize rose when he takes stupid shots but makes them. He's takin stupid shots right now, and missin them. 3-11 shootings. Terrible. And Carwright must be a regula ol dumbass if he thinks Jalen Rose can guard Corliss Williamson and Donyell can guard Robinson, excellent decision by Cartwright.  

Keep up the great work Rose.


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

*The Bulls have NO answer INSIDE....*



> Originally posted by <b>Future</b>!
> See, its hard to criticize rose when he takes stupid shots but makes them. He's takin stupid shots right now, and missin them. 3-11 shootings. Terrible. And Carwright must be a regula ol dumbass if he thinks Jalen Rose can guard Corliss Williamson and Donyell can guard Robinson, excellent decision by Cartwright.
> 
> Keep up the great work Rose.


 no ONE on the Bulls team is shooting it very well. Defensively, we are right there....

topic: first time I have seen lebron james...he wears #23 and has 19 of his teams 37 points. good hustler..looks like he has an NBA body ALREADY!!! lol) oh he has 23 points now!! nice free throw shot too....hmmmmmm?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

32 points in the half for the Bulls. Lame.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Cartwright is being out-coached.

Lets see the adjustment. The P's have taken away the post and transition.

Can he counter??


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Theres no reason why Eddy can't be a high scoring Ben Wallace. And he will.

I can't wait.



I noticed something tonight. I'll post it later.


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

guys what channel is the game on?? I don't see it on WGN, WCIU, or fox sports net?


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*know we know*

who the real Bulls fans are. Where is everybody?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

End of 3rd quarter, Bulls with just 55 points, and they're only down by 4.

We finally found a team that's as lousy at shooting as we are ;-)

Actually, they just play fantastic defense. Wallace makes the lane a very difficult place to score from.

Curry 4-10, 11 points.

Rose taking few outside shots and getting swarmed when he goes in the lane.

Hassell a couple of great moves and scores close to the basket.

Fizer a solid contribution again.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Game is on TNT. Extra pressure for the Bulls (nationally televised game).

;-)


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> Game is on TNT. Extra pressure for the Bulls (nationally televised game).
> 
> ;-)


ahh thanks!


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## 7thwatch (Jul 18, 2002)

ooh, what an ugly game

maybe we can mount a comeback and squeak a win out of this 

At least we have been competetive so far tonight!

GO BULLS


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## 7thwatch (Jul 18, 2002)

we have cut the lead to two

timeout detriot


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*Crawford*

with the big threee:wbanana:


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Crawford actually dunked!

<FONT SIZE=+2>TIE GAME</FONT>

And then a steal by Craw!


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

SWEET move by crawford


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## 7thwatch (Jul 18, 2002)

Crawford dunks  

C'mon bulls


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*Crawford brings us back,*

why is he not starting again?


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## 7thwatch (Jul 18, 2002)

Crawford again!!!!!!!!!!


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

YOU CAN'T STOP JAMAL CRAWFORD! YOU CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN HIM!!!


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Win or lose, this game builds character.


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## 7thwatch (Jul 18, 2002)

crawford, fizer, doing a nice job of showcasing themselves.

Then again, if they're going to play like this, keep them!


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## 7thwatch (Jul 18, 2002)

no moral victories bullies, I want the W. Keep fighting. 

Fizer scores!


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

*WHY???? is NO ONE putting a body on..*

Wallace???? Eddie, no...fizer no...?????? MAKE THIS poor free throw shooter hit free throws instead of lay ups and dunks!!!! THIS IS shaq a foul all over again...NO ONE IS putting a body on wallace....NO FREEKING wonder he has over 20 reboundS!!!!


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

WHERE IS DONYELL?


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## 7thwatch (Jul 18, 2002)

Maybe Cartwright should suit up, eh:laugh: 

He'd probably STILL do a better job boxing out than these guys are doing.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Corie Blount is Lebron James insurance.


I hate him




ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:upset: :upset: :upset:


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

*Hahaha...the announcers...Fratello called it...*

half the bulls were playing man to man and the others zone...go figure...lol (yeah, I know, whats half but thats what he said...and he was right as far as how the bulls play...too funny...Lebron won't be able to wear his now #23 jersey when we get him next season....lol)


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*Rose just gave the game*

away so sad we had a chance


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## 7thwatch (Jul 18, 2002)

donyell better be back in after the timeout.


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

*1:26 to go...78-74 Pists...with the ball*

what was that last shot by fizer??? think he should start too? lol


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*That Isaiah Swann*

kid for Oak Hill is headed to Maryland, boy are they gonna be loaded.


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## 7thwatch (Jul 18, 2002)

Rose with the jumper.

4 pt ballgame.


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## BamaBull (Jun 24, 2002)

*poor rotation just lost this game...*

another three by billups..81-74


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Twas' an ugly game.


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## 7thwatch (Jul 18, 2002)

we were there till the end. we just couldn't take care of business.


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

You think these guys even go over game tape?


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## DaFuture (Nov 5, 2002)

*gettingbrandedq*

what was that you were gonna post about eddy curry=ben wallace


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Future</b>!
> You think these guys even go over game tape?


Yeah, they go over it.

The lesson this game is don't play Blount and Fizer at the same time...


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Blame this squarely on Cartwright.

1. He had Lebron James insurance out there instead of Marshall. Just what NBA skill L.J.I. has, I havn't seen.

2. He didn't adequately prepare his team to play defense coming out of the timeout.

3. After three or four electrifying possessions, he benches Jamal for the cold Jason Williams.


He's still the John Shoop of NBA head coaches.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, they go over it.
> ...


I could not agree more. Blount is a veteran. He lost both passes to him!! Those really hurt us! And Fizer is better if he is given the ball on a move to the basket and not so he has to create his own shot. 

I think the Bulls are much better giving the ball to Williams. I loved the way he attacked the goal!! Much better than giving the ball to Rose.


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## RetroDreams (Jun 9, 2002)

I'll say this one more time... Crawford and Williams have to be on the floor together 100% of the time. Hassell and Hoiberg have no business on the floor.

I absoultely puked with Cartwright's ridiculous rotations. Sick, sick, sick.


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## Future (Jul 24, 2002)

Should've played Marshall in the 4th over Blount. 

Rose shot *7 of 23* !!!!!!!!!!!

I wonder what his field goal percentage is this season.

Hassell is a liablity on offense.

Chandler has no O game, Curry has no D game.

If somehow they combined into ChaCurry, this guy would be a dominant player. :sigh:


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!
> 
> 
> I could not agree more. Blount is a veteran. He lost both passes to him!! Those really hurt us! And Fizer is better if he is given the ball on a move to the basket and not so he has to create his own shot.
> ...


I don't have a problem with them both playing. When they're in at the same time, there's no bodies boxing out.

I understand why Blount played - because Curry stunk it up. He missed many easy/close shots and was embarassed on national TV when Fratello diagrammed how badly he played defense on an easy dunk by the Pistons (early in the game).

Even so, it makes no sense that Marshall only got 30 minutes.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RetroDreams</b>!
> I'll say this one more time... Crawford and Williams have to be on the floor together 100% of the time. Hassell and Hoiberg have no business on the floor.
> 
> I absoultely puked with Cartwright's ridiculous rotations. Sick, sick, sick.


Hassell and Hoiberg shouldn't be on the floor at the same time. But Hassells defense is better than it looks and Hoiberg is a better rebounder than half our big men...


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> Blame this squarely on Cartwright.
> 
> 3. After three or four electrifying possessions, he benches Jamal for the cold Jason Williams.


I think it was over by the time JWill got back in there.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> 
> 
> I think it was over by the time JWill got back in there.


Jamal didn't deserve to finish????


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Jamal looked llike he was running out of gas.

He definately outplayed JWill, or at least was part of the lineup that brought us back to a lead.

A minute or two of rest on the bench and back in the game would have been kewl by me.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> Jamal looked llike he was running out of gas.
> 
> He definately outplayed JWill, or at least was part of the lineup that brought us back to a lead.
> ...


No...he was game.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

I dont think craw was tired , he didn't look it &

he only played 19 min.

but what killed us other than some really bad defense (which i plant squarely on Blount for forgetting he was in a zone )which got billups thats 3

was the 2 dropped passes on consecutive possesions by blount all he had to do was catch it and he would have at least gone to the line fot FT's instead he loses them both and the bulls lost the game when it happened 

i dont think i'm out of line in saying if he cant catch the passes he should either not be in the game (my personal decision would be this one) or get out the paint never to return and only enter it when the shots go up to rebound

i place this loss on the "veteran " corie blount


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> i place this loss on the "veteran " corie blount


What about team leader, Jalen Mercer?


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Wynn</b>!
> 
> 
> What about team leader, Jalen Mercer?


he did his job 

not very well but you cant hit them all 

but he was doing what he was suppose to do take shots when the team needs them most trying to be "the guy" 

but blount was in their to be the glue of the defense and he was the one unglueing it 

he was the one leaving hi spot in the zone and playing man screwing it up and being the reason the pistons were getting easy shots 

plus on the other end is giving up the ball on to easy feeds on consectutive possesions either one could have breathed lif into the bulls and stopped piston momentum


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## BCH (Jun 25, 2002)

Bulls were getting killed last night on the swing from the wing to the top, with the big man doing an inside seal on the ball side post, after the Bulls defender fronted the pass from the wing. Once the post guy got the ball, he either scored inside, or if help came from the opposite corner swung it to the guy wide open in the corner. It was getting real ugly at one point.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

I agree with what Coach K was saying about running more because that is where Jay (and our whole team) is most effective. In the open court he could could get us some easy baskets instead of having to rely on great execution against a wonderful defensive team. Cartwright has a lot to learn.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>gettinbranded</b>!
> 
> Jamal didn't deserve to finish????


Jamal played great but I was happy to go back with Williams. Detroit had just finished a 8-0 run.

I will say that Fizer in the last 2 games & Crawford last night showed me more than I thought that they had in them.


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## Lizzy (May 28, 2002)

Dear Mr. Cartwright

When the team is down by six with 50 seconds to go why is your "veteran defensive" line-up the one you choose? At that point you need to score. Jamal Crawford was scoring well and playing good defense so by all means - Bench Him you ****ing idiot! Going with the defensive line-up is a waste of everyone's time if they proceed to let Billups shoot wide-open 3's. 

I know you insist on running a triangle offense which is ineffective with the zone, your current pg and youth of the team. However, the triangle is best run with 3 guys that can handle the ball. That would be Crawford, Williams and Rose. If you insist on this offense why can't you play the three guys best suited for it *especially* when you are down with a minute to go. I can only assume you went with Rose, Williams, Hassell, Blount and Hoiberg for so long because you watched part of the LeBron James game and got excited. 

And by all means, Mr. C, when you want offense at the end of a close game throw it to the post to Corie Scissorhands. 

Regarding riding the veterans to victories - why did Marshall play only 30 minutes? Why not ride Tyson a little. I contest that he was playing much better than Blount. In the very few minutes he played he altered shots, held his ground, didn't leave his feet and fought for rebounds. Is it b/c he couldn't handle a pass in the post? Oh! Then put in Blount b/c he's the Jerry Rice on the NBA. 

I can't wait until Tyson and Eddy are stars in this league....for other teams. Why would they stay in Chicago? Tyson plays well and gets benched for a veteran that isn't better than him? 

Riding the veterans to six wins and embarassing losses is painful to watch. I'd rather watch Tyson and Eddy improve during losses. Or - if they are going to be benched then bench them for Marshall and Fizer.

In conclusion next time you play a close game against the Pistons you might want to mention to the veterans to foul Wallace and not wait until he passes it to Rip. It's called coaching.


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## LoyalBull (Jun 12, 2002)

One of the low points of the season was Cartwright (trying) to yell out a defensive set... 

watching 2 of the bulls playing Zone... 2 playing man, and the other guarding a teammate...

2 times down the stretch the bulls were absolutely lost with what Cartwright was trying to communicate...

Not that it would have mattered much if they did understand...


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BCH</b>!
> Bulls were getting killed last night on the swing from the wing to the top, with the big man doing an inside seal on the ball side post, after the Bulls defender fronted the pass from the wing. Once the post guy got the ball, he either scored inside, or if help came from the opposite corner swung it to the guy wide open in the corner. It was getting real ugly at one point.


Can someone who knows more about basketball than I do explain why the Bulls teach all their defenders, specifically the big men, to front their man in the post?

I was always told to keep myself between my man and the basket. Fronting the ball seems a dicey proposition even for a good defender, nevermind novices. It leaves you hanging in the wind, susceptible to a solid entry pass or quick ball reversal. And if your team isn't particularly good at cleaning the defensive glass, why do you want to put your guys at a disadvantage there as well?

Honestly, it mystifies me. If anyone knows why the Bulls front the post or can defend the practice in general, I'd appreciate an explanation.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

The Bulls play a defense that is known as Pressure/Deny/Sag man-to-man. The guy with the ball gets full defensive pressure from his man. The guys nearest the passer are to be denied the ball (fronted, if necessary). The defenders on the weak side are supposed to sag toward the middle, almost like a zone, to provide weak-side help.

If you don't get weak-side help, the defense looks really bad.

If you're Corie Blount, you're much better off trying to keep Shaq from getting the ball in the first place. And if Shaq does get the ball, you're going to need the help in the second place.

This is the kind of defense that has been taught at the high school level, especially in Chicago, for at least 30 years.

Cheers


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