# Shaun Livingston works out for Blazers, rumored to sign



## timmay

*Edit: Shaun's NOT a Blazer! (was: Shaun Livingston works out for Blazers)*

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-livingstonworkout091208

Shaun Livingston had a workout in Portland this week. Rumor is that he'll sign with the Blazers next week. No word yet on whether it would be a guaranteed contract or not.

I have to admit I'm a little leery of signing another guard, especially one with a significant injury history. But if he really is healed and on a comeback, it could be a lot of fun.

*EDIT:* Congrats to Shaun Livingston, he's a Blazer! (Nevermind, see below)

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=10058

*EDIT2:* The Fan is reporting that Portland passed on Shaun, despite the Hoopsworld story. Instead, they signed Shavlik Randolph to a non-guaranteed contract.

-Tim


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## Miksaid

sign him!


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## Oldmangrouch

Interesting.

Depending on the terms of the contract, it could be a worthwhile gamble.


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## Driew

So no Steven Hill signing? Bummer liked that guy


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## Entity

No harm in giving him a shot.


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## Nate Dogg

Is it possible to dump Sergio for this?
Hmm, keeping ROY (SG,PG), Blake (PG), Livingston (PG) and Bayless (PG) is an awesome combo!


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## Sambonius

I'm sure it's a non guaranteed contract, the rest of the league would have caught on and signed him if he had any ability to play basketball normally.


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## Minstrel

I'd much rather take a flier on Livingston, who has a tiny chance of being an NBA talent if he recovers properly from his injuries, than Jackson or Hill, neither of whom I think will ever be NBA contributors.


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## KingSpeed

Holy crap! He's a pretty great player. Gosh, do we have room for him?


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## LameR

KingSpeed said:


> Holy crap! He's a pretty great player. Gosh, do we have room for him?


We've still got that one spot for a contract, but it takes away some trade flexibility, and eliminates the possibility of signing Hill. I'd rather have Hill (especially with Raef's surgery) banging around with Oden than Livingston practicing behind Bayless, Blake, and Roy in terms of PG-esque players (he might be able to beat out Sergio for time depending on what Sergio's done this summer).


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## Webster's Dictionary

I say hey, give him a shot to come back. He'll probably just sit on the bench, but say by the end of the season he looks like he's ready to play again, it gives us serious possibilities next year, and has/had a lot of potential.


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## Samuel

We already smell a trade coming down the pike, but this would really increase that sentiment. 

Also, it would make preseason loads of fun to watch. What a dogfight at the PG position...


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## ebott

maybe this is one of those favor to an agent type deals. I'd think if Livingston was really in any sort of playing shape he'd sign with a team where he'd have a good shot to play. Maybe we sign Shaun and let him try out his stuff and even if he doesn't make the team his agent still owes KP one. Or it could be KP already owes the agent a favor and this is KP paying him back.

But what do I know. Could be he looks good. It's not like any of our point guards are world beaters. If he can return to some of his former ability he could end up with some serious PT.


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## wastro

I don't buy it. Portland doesn't need another back-up point guard.


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## Zybot

ebott said:


> maybe this is one of those favor to an agent type deals. I'd think if Livingston was really in any sort of playing shape he'd sign with a team where he'd have a good shot to play. Maybe we sign Shaun and let him try out his stuff and even if he doesn't make the team his agent still owes KP one. Or it could be KP already owes the agent a favor and this is KP paying him back.
> 
> But what do I know. Could be he looks good. It's not like any of our point guards are world beaters. If he can return to some of his former ability he could end up with some serious PT.


Interesting theory. This doesn't make a lot of sense. I think Hill makes more sense with Frye surgery and La Frentz issues. I say either a trade, or just taking a look at him.


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## Balian

I think the "two league sources believed the Blazers are the favorites to sign" part is just to ginned up interest around the league. Portland this, Portland that ...everyone is using KP's reputation to add value to their clients. He must be good, KP is interested or after him!


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## Sug

I have a few quesitons.

1.) Does anyone remember when the Blazers were going to file a petition with the NBA to get an injury exemption or something that would allow them to sign an additional player above the roster limit? (*THIS IS NOT* the same thing we did with Miles BTW, this was something totally different, and was only for one year I believe)

-This becomes relevant because it is possible that the Blazers could do that with Raef and have an extra roster spot.

2.) If Livingston is signed with the MLE at say three years, could that third year be a "team" option? If it could be a "team" option, would we get bird rights at the end of the three years if the Blazers used the "team" option?

-The main reason this is important come down simply to being able to hold onto Livingston if we were able to sign him and he came back to being a productive player.


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## yuyuza1

I was all for signing Livingston before the draft, but now, he just seems like someone we can't really use.... unless another trade is brewing.


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## BenDavis503

I love this. He is a 6' 7'' PG with still some good potential. I am concerned that he has tried out for a number of other teams and did not get picked up though. But, I think maybe KP is just stacking assets? Livingston is one of the bigger names out there available on the FA market. Maybe he is signing him knowing he will trade him in a package deal down the road this year?

hahah I just looked up... he has the same birthday as me. September 11th.


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## BenDavis503

double post sorry.


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## nikolokolus

Sug said:


> I have a few quesitons.
> 
> 1.) Does anyone remember when the Blazers were going to file a petition with the NBA to get an injury exemption or something that would allow them to sign an additional player above the roster limit? (*THIS IS NOT* the same thing we did with Miles BTW, this was something totally different, and was only for one year I believe)
> 
> -This becomes relevant because it is possible that the Blazers could do that with Raef and have an extra roster spot.


I don't recall this and I can't really comment on it.



> 2.) If Livingston is signed with the MLE at say three years, could that third year be a "team" option? If it could be a "team" option, would we get bird rights at the end of the three years if the Blazers used the "team" option?
> 
> -The main reason this is important come down simply to being able to hold onto Livingston if we were able to sign him and he came back to being a productive player.


First off let me say that I really *liked* Shaun Linvingston before his injury, but oof. Livingston is nowhere near worth the MLE right now; there's simply no guarantee or even a reasonable expectation that he'll ever get his knee right enough to be worth 5-6 million a year. As for contract terms (team options, length of contract) all of that stuff is negotiable, but if I was KP I'd offer him nothing more than a 3 year deal at possibly 1.5 to 2 million a year with team options in each of the last two years of his deal -- this guy needs to demonstrate that he can get back on the court and contribute in a meaningful way before any team should consider multi-year deals with guaranteed money. If those terms aren't to Livingston's liking then I'd let him walk.


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## BlazerFan22

Minstrel said:


> I'd much rather take a flier on Livingston, who has a tiny chance of being an NBA talent if he recovers properly from his injuries, than Jackson or Hill, neither of whom I think will ever be NBA contributors.


You would really pass on a 6"7 PG? How many times do 6"7 PG come around? Please don't say oh we have Brandon Roy he's not a PG.


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## Sug

nikolokolus said:


> First off let me say that I really *liked* Shaun Linvingston before his injury, but oof. Livingston is nowhere near worth the MLE right now; there's simply no guarantee or even a reasonable expectation that he'll ever get his knee right enough to be worth 5-6 million a year.


I was thinking more of just using MLE money, not the "full" MLE. I say a million or 1.5 a year would be fine.


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## It's_GO_Time

What caught my eye in the article is that he is about 80% and probably wouldn't hep that much this year.

So sign him for 3 yrs (if their analysis is he can come back) and stash him on the IR. Kind of like stashing a player in Europe and think towards the next seeason. In this case, PA has to pay his salary, but from an owner who buys lottery picks at 3 mil a pop, I'm guessing he doesn't mind paying salary to stash a guy on IR.


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## enzo aix

maybe he just comes in for training camp and if he makes the team cool if not no skin off our backs.


Oh yeah go Millers!! 
3 and 0


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## Minstrel

BlazerFan22 said:


> You would really pass on a 6"7 PG? How many times do 6"7 PG come around? Please don't say oh we have Brandon Roy he's not a PG.


Try re-reading what I said.


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## Sambonius

If there was any glimmer of hope that Livingston would come back sometime soon, he would have been signed. You think the Blazers are the only team who's worked him out? Try again. Warriors and Mavericks have worked him out and the Heat have supposedly shown interest. This guy's agent is doing anything he can to leverage his client to an NBA contract. It was only a couple months ago when it was reported that Livingston needed an hour and a half of pre-basketball care before he could step out on the basketball court.


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## Oldmangrouch

Sambonius said:


> If there was any glimmer of hope that Livingston would come back sometime soon, he would have been signed. You think the Blazers are the only team who's worked him out? Try again. Warriors and Mavericks have worked him out and the Heat have supposedly shown interest. This guy's agent is doing anything he can to leverage his client to an NBA contract. It was only a couple months ago when it was reported that Livingston needed an hour and a half of pre-basketball care before he could step out on the basketball court.


All true - but consider this: most teams will tell Livingston to rehab on his own dime, and not to come back until he can actually play. What if PA decided to pay for his rehab in the hope he can play *next* season? Seems like a long shot, but what the heck?


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## deanwoof

with lafrentz out for the season supposedly, i'd think twice about signing another guard over a big man


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## For Three! Rip City!

Livingston (if healthy), would pair well with Bayless. He could defend the shooting guard. I remember when Anfernee Hardaway was supposed to be a 6-7 pg and then injuries robbed him of his quickness and he played primarily SG after that. I could see that happening with Livingston.


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## Sambonius

For Three! Rip City! said:


> I remember when Anfernee Hardaway was supposed to be a 6-7 pg and then injuries robbed him of his quickness and he played primarily SG after that. I could see that happening with Livingston.


I'd hope not. Livingston has no perimeter game to speak of. He's worse than Telfair from the perimeter.


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## Sambonius

Oldmangrouch said:


> All true - but consider this: most teams will tell Livingston to rehab on his own dime, and not to come back until he can actually play. What if PA decided to pay for his rehab in the hope he can play *next* season? Seems like a long shot, but what the heck?


Sure, but reports are that Livingston turned down a contract from the Clipps that paid him a lot less. If we can get him for a mil for two seasons and an option for the third, it might be worth it. I leave it up to the front office and the doctors. I don't think he'll ever come back to his original form, the injury was just too horrific to come back from.


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## drexlersdad

people have been speculating that even if livingston loses some of his quickness, he could still be valuable as a player that can play the pg/sg/sf. maybe he projects as more of a sf now.

btw, the blazers will have the best video game team EVER!!!!


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## HispanicCausinPanic

Can't hurt to pick him up. He has game......had game! He's a talented player that could be on the end of our bench. Better then Hill or Luke!


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## HurraKane212

I think Livingston would make an interesting SF. How was his pre-injury defense? I hear his outside shooting is spotty, so that might need some work, but then again, he might be more likely to be left open on a team with Roy, LMA, and Oden and can thus nail a few open jumpers.

He would definitely be a great utility player that can back up 3 spots and give us better depth/enable us to make certain trades.


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## Minstrel

If he's lost quickness, but still has some quickness and all of that passing ability, he could make a dandy point-forward. Assuming his talent hasn't been sapped out of him.

Having Bayless/Roy/Livingston or Fernandez/Roy/Livingston as our backcourt could be rather fun.


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## timmay

Minstrel said:


> Having Bayless/Roy/Livingston or Fernandez/Roy/Livingston as our backcourt could be rather fun.


That's true, but only if Livingston can show he can come back to his former level. He's clearly been working hard, but that's a tough injury to recover from.

Even without them having played an NBA game yet, I'd probably choose Rudy/Roy/Bayless over both the above combinations, despite Shaun's promising pre-injury play. 

(And I'm on the list that would love to see Livingston come back from the injury, simply as a feel-good story)


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## HispanicCausinPanic

I don't think you guys realize, that our guys don't need to be good shooters from the outside! We got a 7'0, 280 lb BEAST that is going to nab up any misses!


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## Minstrel

timmay said:


> Even without them having played an NBA game yet, I'd probably choose Rudy/Roy/Bayless over both the above combinations, despite Shaun's promising pre-injury play.


I would too, if I thought any of the three could play small forward. I was unclear. I meant as our perimeter, not strictly our backcourt. As in, one of those two combinations would be a fun starting unit, if Livingston recovers. Bayless clearly can't be a small forward and neither Roy nor Fernandez seems like the right combination of height, weight and wingspan to defend small forwards. Livingston could, perhaps.


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## dkap

Height is not the only important ingredient. Livingston would get absolutely abused by stronger SF's.

Dan


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## timmay

Minstrel said:


> I would too, if I thought any of the three could play small forward. I was unclear. I meant as our perimeter, not strictly our backcourt. As in, one of those two combinations would be a fun starting unit, if Livingston recovers. Bayless clearly can't be a small forward and neither Roy nor Fernandez seems like the right combination of height, weight and wingspan to defend small forwards. Livingston could, perhaps.


I definitely misunderstood you! Whoops.

That's a much closer contest. I feel like I can't give any real thoughts on the SF position until we get some time with the hopefully-improved Martell and Outlaw this Winter. They could still make this question moot.


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## B-Roy

HurraKane212 said:


> I think Livingston would make an interesting SF. How was his pre-injury defense? I hear his outside shooting is spotty, so that might need some work, but then again, he might be more likely to be left open on a team with Roy, LMA, and Oden and can thus nail a few open jumpers.
> 
> He would definitely be a great utility player that can back up 3 spots and give us better depth/enable us to make certain trades.


A small forward? Livingston?


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## BenDavis503

B-Roy said:


> A small forward? Livingston?


He isn't a small forward but he could play the 3 with his height.


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## BBert

It's been rumored that KP wanted Livingston pre-injury. Signing him to a flexible contract would be like signing another low risk, possible high reward project player. Uncle Paul can afford it. It sounds like Livingston wouldn't be ready to play at all this year so the payoff, if there were one, would be in the future. Perfect. We need a couple of young project players at the end of the bench. It would be a shame not to have Hill around to work out Oden, but if Livingston can come back his ceiling is much higher. We can find another Hill the next time we need one.


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## MAS RipCity

why not, the guy is a 15th man..no big deal if he makes it or flops. Just bust out the afro for the games!


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## ThatBlazerGuy

This is, simply put, why KP is the best GM in the league. Take the flyer on a potential steal. Stock talent. If he doenst pan out, so what. We wont give him a 'cap plan' runing deal. There is absolutley no reason not to sign him. Can you imagine, in a perfect world, a PG/SG combo of 2 players over 6'6. Absolutley unheard of. Again, this is why KP is #1.


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## KingSpeed

HispanicCausinPanic said:


> I don't think you guys realize, that our guys don't need to be good shooters from the outside! We got a 7'0, 280 lb BEAST that is going to nab up any misses!


On the contrary, we need good outside shooters to make people pay for doubling Oden. That's how you win a championship. You put some guy in the post who can't be stopped. He plays so well that he must be double/triple teamed. Then you have the Bob Horrys, Manu Ginobilis, Stephen Jacksons and Steve Kerrs around to take and make the big shots.


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## Miksaid

have we signed him yet


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## Miksaid

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qkoEeZqEvHs&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qkoEeZqEvHs&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I think he would act as a better, more enthusiastic cheerleader on the bench then Hill would which is all I really ask for in a 15th man. I also think that any successful point guard who knows how to pass a lick must also have a good amount of knowledge for the game. His NBA and basketball experience may help. It's also another opportunity to take another project player to get excited about every summer (yipee). Maybe we can sign Hill as a coach if we really need a practice body for Oden ha ha.

Also, I feel really sorry for the guy. "Livingston tore his anterior cruciate ligament, posterior cruciate ligament, medial collateral ligament and lateral meniscus. He also dislocated his patella." (Oregonian) That sounds freaking extreme. He's someone I would definitely get behind and root for.


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## MARIS61

All of our guards, even the ones still in Europe, are better than Shaun.

Even Jack is better than Shaun.

Get real here.


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## gatorpops

My guess is that KP could/would drop another player (Lefrenz) (sp) and even though it counts against the cap, we could have both Hill and Livingston???

g


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## yuyuza1

From Quick:


> It is believed the Blazers next want to view Livingston's medical records and have a doctor examine his surgically repaired knee.


http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2008/09/livingston_works_out_for_blaze.html

Looks like the staff is giving him a good look. It wouldn't hurt to have him on our roster on Paul Allen's tab. If he can regain his original explosiveness after a year's worth of rehab, he could turn out as a sound investment.


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## TLo

Before his injury he was on track to become one of the top point guards in the league. If our medical staff signs off I think we *have *to sign him.


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## deanwoof

anybody remember jay williams?


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## wizmentor

deanwoof said:


> anybody remember jay williams?


no comparison. Jay Williams was short and used quickness. Robbed of
his quickness, he couldn't get back.

SLiv has great court vision and is tall. He was considered a better
prospect than Devin Harris. If SLiv is robbed of his quickness, he
can still be an effective player. 

That being said, SLivs injury was really really bad - watching the actual
injury occur on youtube is not for the faint of heart (It was in the
other Livingston thread from the beginning of summer).


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## ThatBlazerGuy

This isnt even a low risk, high reward move. It would be a NO risk, high reward move. Think of a tandem of Bayless and Shaun at PG in 2 years. Insane talent that compliments each other to a T.


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## BenDavis503

ThatBlazerGuy said:


> This isnt even a low risk, high reward move. It would be a NO risk, high reward move. Think of a tandem of Bayless and Shaun at PG in 2 years. Insane talent that compliments each other to a T.


Agreed. We have NOTHING to lose here!

Damn, think about our NBA2K9 roster!!!

Blake\Bayless\Livingston
Roy\Rudy
Webster\Outlaw\Batum
LMA\Frye\Ike
Oden\Joel

That is a MEAN looking video game roster (because all are healthy in games is what I mean)!!


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## Blazer Freak

You guys can't expect Livingston to really do anything for atleast another year to a year in a half. And even then he needs to get back on track. I like the possible signing but you guys are going way overboard with the "Bayless + Livingston tandem" stuff.


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## BenDavis503

^^^ That's the thing. We don't need him to do anything. It will just be cool if he gets healthy. Assets baby, assets. KP loves assets.


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## Sug

Someone made a Ron Harper comparison, I think it was a good one. Harper lost a step, but was still very good.


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## Sambonius

Sug said:


> Someone made a Ron Harper comparison, I think it was a good one. Harper lost a step, but was still very good.


Well Harper could shoot, Livingston cannot. Hopefully this injury gave Shaun an opportunity to strengthen his perimeter game because it was God awful before the injury.


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## Sug

Sambonius said:


> Well Harper could shoot, Livingston cannot. Hopefully this injury gave Shaun an opportunity to strengthen his perimeter game because it was God awful before the injury.


Well they might not have the same skill sets, and Harper was 23 coming into the NBA. I think the point is that just because a guy suffers a major injury, does not mean he cannot go on to be a very good NBA player for many years.


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## gatorpops

deanwoof said:


> anybody remember jay williams?


Anybody remember Jason Kidd? If the kids knee is healing, this is a great pick-up. 

No one has responded to my suggestion that Raef could be waived and both Hill or?? could be signed along with Shawn L. This kid could become good to great again. 

g


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## Blazer Freak

gatorpops said:


> Anybody remember Jason Kidd? If the kids knee is healing, this is a great pick-up.
> 
> No one has responded to my suggestion that Raef could be waived and both Hill or?? could be signed along with Shawn L. This kid could become good to great again.
> 
> g


Why waive Raef a 14 million dollar expiring contract for a 14th and 15th player? Hill won't do anything besides be GO's ragdoll and Livingston is another year away from even getting on the court. Not much value there to warrant cutting a valuable "asset" at the trade deadline.

Is Hill really that important? Sure he's a good guy, but we have Oden and JP at C with Frye/LaMarcus/Diogu all wanting playing time in the frontcourt. I highly doubt Hill would get more than 5 minutes of playing time in the whole season.


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## PorterIn2004

gatorpops said:


> Anybody remember Jason Kidd? If the kids knee is healing, this is a great pick-up.
> 
> *No one has responded to my suggestion that Raef could be waived and both Hill or??* could be signed along with Shawn L. This kid could become good to great again.
> 
> g



LaFrentz is a _huge_ asset right now. No, he's unlikely to see court time, which is probably why you're confused about it, but LaFrentz plus even one other secondary player (Webster, Rodriguez, or the like) and/or a draft pick and cash really could bring back not just a starter but a bonafide star. Why? Because he's got a huge contract that's about to expire -- he can save a team millions. Worst case is that he saves the Blazers millions but it's far more likely that, one way or another, his expiring contract helps bring in a star or at _least_ a valuable rotation player. That's why he won't just be cut, despite his lack of value on the court.


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## nikolokolus

PorterIn2004 said:


> LaFrentz is a _huge_ asset right now. No, he's unlikely to see court time, which is probably why you're confused about it, but LaFrentz plus even one other secondary player (Webster, Rodriguez, or the like) and/or a draft pick and cash really could bring back not just a starter but a bonafide star. Why? Because he's got a huge contract that's about to expire -- he can save a team millions. Worst case is that he saves the Blazers millions but it's far more likely that, one way or another, his expiring contract helps bring in a star or at _least_ a valuable rotation player. That's why he won't just be cut, despite his lack of value on the court.


There's a good reason that many people have begun referring to Raef as "RLEC" (RF's Expiring Contract) -- that's all that he is at this point of his career.


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## Bob Whitsitt

PorterIn2004 said:


> LaFrentz is a _huge_ asset right now. No, he's unlikely to see court time, which is probably why you're confused about it, but LaFrentz plus even one other secondary player (Webster, Rodriguez, or the like) and/or a draft pick and cash really could bring back not just a starter but a bonafide star. Why? Because he's got a huge contract that's about to expire -- he can save a team millions. Worst case is that he saves the Blazers millions but it's far more likely that, one way or another, his expiring contract helps bring in a star or at _least_ a valuable rotation player. That's why he won't just be cut, despite his lack of value on the court.


99% of the 'trade talk' on this forum is utter stupidity and will never ever happen, and almost every single one of the "WE SHOULD RELEASE THIS GUY AND SIGN THIS GUY ETC ETC" is more stupidity. Almost no one understand how this ACTUALLY works, short from a choice few here.

Porter is correct here, Raef is extremely valuable and will not be waived. He's a waste of space on the team, but his contract will be a big deal very soon. We may sign Livingston, I highly doubt we keep Mountain Man as he is not an NBA caliber player and never ever will be. People need to start being realistic and start trying to understand how the contract situation works.

Travis Outlaw is not getting traded, also. Everyone needs to stop posting OMG HURR WE NEED TO TRADE TRAVIS posts. He's our 3rd or 4th best player right now and 3rd best scorer and will be even better this year than last year. He's a huge value and he's very important to this team and we will need him bigtime throughout this year.

Ok I'm done ranting.


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## Kmurph

I think Livingston is a great risk\reward investment....provided that his knee checks out to be ok...if not now, then in the forseeable future...His game IMO was never dependent on speed, but on his court vision and size....

I think if POR signs him they could be richly rewarded a year or two from now...even if he is unable to come back to close to his pre-injury form, I think he could be a good role\bench player...I've been advocating that POR should sign him for quite awhile now....

Jackson is superfluous IMO, I like Hill, but I think Livingston's potential upside is worth more than a 3rd or 4th string center...


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## World B. Free

Kmurph said:


> I think Livingston is a great risk\reward investment....provided that his knee checks out to be ok...if not now, then in the forseeable future...His game IMO was never dependent on speed, but on his court vision and size....
> 
> I think if POR signs him they could be richly rewarded a year or two from now...even if he is unable to come back to close to his pre-injury form, I think he could be a good role\bench player...I've been advocating that POR should sign him for quite awhile now....
> 
> Jackson is superfluous IMO, I like Hill, but I think Livingston's potential upside is worth more than a 3rd or 4th string center...


Nice work! You said nothing new in this post that someone else didn't already say.


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## Fork

World B. Free said:


> Nice work! You said nothing new in this post that someone else didn't already say.


This coming from the guy who brought such brilliant posts as:



World B. Free said:


> Darko and Marko?! hahahahahahahaahahahahahah
> 
> wow


and



World B. Free said:


> No!!!!


and



World B. Free said:


> dangit i cant get it to work lol


and



World B. Free said:


> You said you were at Dicks hahahahahahahahahah


and



World B. Free said:


> My lord he is huge!!!


It's likely that Kmurph has forgotten more about basketball than you'll ever know. So if he wants to reiterate a point, that's fine with me. It's better than reading something like...



World B. Free said:


> ding ding ding!!!


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## Kmurph

> Nice work! You said nothing new in this post that someone else didn't already say.


Except what MY opinion and thoughts were....

brilliant response though.....


really....


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## Blaze

I do believe Raef has a very good chance of being waived due to the Blazers not wanting to make a trade with his contract. I think they do want the salary cap room to go after a top notch star (Kobe). By dumping Raef, they can keep Hill, who can practice against Oden on a regular basis. They can then also pick up Livingston who, if he can play later this year, would make Blake expendable as well.


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## Fork

Blaze said:


> I do believe Raef has a very good chance of being waived due to the Blazers not wanting to make a trade with his contract. I think they do want the salary cap room to go after a top notch star (Kobe). By dumping Raef, they can keep Hill, who can practice against Oden on a regular basis. They can then also pick up Livingston who, if he can play later this year, would make Blake expendable as well.


I disagree.

There's no way we waive Raef. At the trade deadline, some team that's out of contention this season may be willing to offload a big contract for Raef + filler/a pick. It's happened a couple times in the last year or two and I think it's a growing trend. (Stephen Jackson comes to mind.)

I don't think you'd dump the value of Raef's expiring contract for a guy like Steven Hill. And I think Blake is expendable no matter whether we pick up Livingston or not.


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## HurraKane212

Blaze said:


> I do believe Raef has a very good chance of being waived due to the Blazers not wanting to make a trade with his contract. I think they do want the salary cap room to go after a top notch star (Kobe). By dumping Raef, they can keep Hill, who can practice against Oden on a regular basis. They can then also pick up Livingston who, if he can play later this year, would make Blake expendable as well.


(1) I don't think that the Blazers "don't want to trade" Raef. I think it's a "win-win" situation where we would LOVE to trade Raef for a great deal, but are content to have cap-room if a trade doesn't manifest. If a star can be obtained by using RLEC rather than by using caproom, we would not have to bid against ourselves and try to negotiate a contract, we can just take on a previously-negotiated contract. I think that the negotiations process of free-agency can be fraught with peril (see: Ben Gordon) whereas, taking on an already negotiated contract eliminates those variables.

(2) Kobe is on a team that just made the NBA finals in one of the biggest markets in the NBA with a young and promising center returning and an owner who will shell out dough to go out and get players like Pau Gasol. If anyone leaves L.A. I'm betting it's Lamar Odom.

(3) I'd rather have Raef than Hill. Raef can shoot and hustle a bit. Dear God, Mags could practice against Oden too, but you don't see us signing him. I think that Practicing against Pryzbilla, LMA, Frye, and Diogu will give Greg a very well rounded experience.

(4) You don't cut players to let another player sit on the end of your bench. Even with the Von Wafer/Green trade, we were shoring up SG a bit and thinning an overstocked PG rotation. 

(5) Look, we're hoping that Livingston can make it on to an NBA court, PERIOD. There is NO WAY outside of divine intervention, that Livingston will make Steve Blake expendable. Livingston won't even make Bayless or Rudy expendable, this season, he probably couldn't have made Taurean Green expendable (if we still had him).


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## Starbury03

If Lafrentz where to be cut why couldn't his contract be traded why does he have to be on the roster? Contract have been traded before such as Aron McKie and Keith Van Horn last year.


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## elcap15

How much money does Livingston want? That is the basis of any discussion for him.


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## BlazerWookie

Starbury03 said:


> If Lafrentz where to be cut why couldn't his contract be traded why does he have to be on the roster? Contract have been traded before such as Aron McKie and Keith Van Horn last year.


Weren't those guys retired?


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## It's_GO_Time

When thinking about trading Raef, I think the thought process is any trade will happen around the trade deadline. Reason are two fold, any team picking up Raef now only has to pay half that expiring contract to dump an over paid player they don't want anymore (even more attaractive) . . . and the truly disgruntled will start to voice that via their agents around the trade deadline (maybe a player from the suns, mav, GS or some aging team where there is a realization the team is going no where and the palyer want to play for a contender)

Pipedream(hey we got Oden): Lebron is getting dogged on by the city of Clevland. Cavs mande some moves this summer that 1/3rd into the season, it shows the moves did not work. Cavs know Lebron can and will walk in 2010, so trade him now for a core of young players, draft picks and an expiring contract. Roy, Outlaw, Webster, Raef, first round picks in 2009 and 2011. :biggrin:


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## PorterIn2004

So there's new stuff on Livingston here:

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2008/09/pritchard_on_livingston_i_need.html

This is beginning to really intrigue me. I wonder, at 6'7" and with PG skills, it'd be interesting to see what he, Roy, and Fernandez could do together. They could switch on absolutely everything, much like the Lakers used to with Magic. And while none of those three are as "magical" as Johnson was with the ball, the overall ball-handling 1-3 would probably be at least roughly what those Lakers teams had -- heck, even 1-5. Then with Bayless coming in to hound the guys like Nash and Chris Paul... wow!


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## Samuel

It's intriguing because you know pritchard wouldn't give it an extra thought unless he believed Shaun could come back to 85-90% of his former self.


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## PorterIn2004

Agreed, and the current Blazers staff seems good both in terms of talent evaluation and in terms of helping guys recover from pretty intense injuries. It might be a nice match.


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## gatorpops

PorterIn2004 said:


> LaFrentz is a _huge_ asset right now. No, he's unlikely to see court time, which is probably why *you're confused about it*, but LaFrentz plus even one other secondary player (Webster, Rodriguez, or the like) and/or a draft pick and cash really could bring back *not just a starter but a bonafide star*. Why? Because he's got a huge contract that's about to expire -- he can save a team millions. Worst case is that he saves the Blazers millions but it's far more likely that, one way or another, *his expiring contract helps bring in a star or at least a valuable rotation player*. That's why he won't just be cut, despite his lack of value on the court.


I don't often get back to these threads until late so here I am again. Since this is still an on-going situation I will respond.

Fist I am not confused about it.

Raef's contract + other consideration _Might not bring back a bonafide star_and probably would not. He _might_ bring back a star but more likely he will bring back a _rotation player_. That is why I think KP might just waive Raef, because if KP thinks that a _#4 draft pick PG_ is adequate compensation for a Raef + contract, then he _already has_ the star/rotatioon player in Shawn Livingston. 

So we just let his contract expire and still keep all our other assets. Seems very plausible to me.


g


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## dkap

Samuel said:


> It's intriguing because you know pritchard wouldn't give it an extra thought unless he believed Shaun could come back to 85-90% of his former self.


On the other hand, what's the one thing we fans are most wringing are hands over these days? Injuries! Yes, we've gotten some amazing bargains on injury prone players, but the jury is still out as to whether they can all stay healthy long enough to amount to anything. I see the Livingston possibility as another such reach by Pritchard. I trust his talent evaluation skills much more than his eye for durability.

Dan


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## Schilly

What amazing bargains have we gotten on injury prone players?


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## dkap

Roy, Aldridge, Frye, Diogu, Przybilla ... all came to us with fairly lengthy injury histories and were thus devalued by many. Oden doesn't quite fit the category, although many argued that his own injury history made him a bit of a risk. You could probably include guys like Jack (ankle) and Ratliff (everything), who we turned into better assets in Bayless and Roy.

Dan


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## Schilly

I don't think we got any of those players on account of injury, Diogu maybe, but is he a bargain? Aldridge was a #2 pick I fail to see how his injury past makes him a bargain. Frye... We gave up Z-bo to get, it's not like we stole him. Roy also a #7 pick, how much injury caused him to fall to #7? Joel we got as a bargain becasue... well... Prior to being here he sucked. Signing a 2ppg, 4rpg Center isn't exactly a bargain.


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## Perfection

Schilly said:


> I don't think we got any of those players on account of injury, Diogu maybe, but is he a bargain? Aldridge was a #2 pick I fail to see how his injury past makes him a bargain. Frye... We gave up Z-bo to get, it's not like we stole him. Roy also a #7 pick, how much injury caused him to fall to #7? Joel we got as a bargain becasue... well... Prior to being here he sucked. Signing a 2ppg, 4rpg Center isn't exactly a bargain.


I've heard that other teams above #7 passed on Roy for injury concern reasons actually.


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## dkap

Each of those players had injury concerns that caused people to pass on them or let them go.

Dan


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## Anonymous Gambler

I look forward to seeing Livingston sign- though I don't think he's a future starter- he was more potential than reality even when he was healthy. Still, he's good value for the 15th player.


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## BBert

It does sound like Livingston wants to play sooner rather than later. I have no way to know if that's realistic or not, but the opportunity to play and contribute sooner will probably have a real bearing on where he decides to sign. I know I'd be itching to get back on the floor if I were him. I still like the idea of stashing him on our roster until he's 'better than new.' He may not.


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## Mr. Chuck Taylor

Pritchard will decide by tomorrow.

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/o...sports/1222140313163820.xml&coll=7&thispage=2


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## BlazerFan22

KP said he would decide today! CMon KP stop sitting on your hands and get him signed already!


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## timmay

Also added to the top post.

Congrats to Shaun Livingston! Hoopsworld says he's joined the Blazers.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=10058


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## MemphisX

****

Pardon my French


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## GrandpaBlaze

MemphisX said:


> ****
> 
> Pardon my French


My bad, I thought it looked more like Italian. I'll get my language asterisks down one of these days. :biggrin:

Gramps...


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## cpt.napalm

95.5 just said that we didn't sign Livingston, but mentioned something about Shavlic Randolph.


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## timmay

cpt.napalm said:


> 95.5 just said that we didn't sign Livingston, but mentioned something about Shavlic Randolph.


Yep, I can't hear the station but it's being reported everywhere. I'm updating the top post.


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## ironcrotch

Canzano says we aren't signing Livingston, we are signing some other guy named Shavlik Randolph.

What a buzz kill. :sadbanana:


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## Sambonius

Randolph was a very good rebounder for Philly.


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## MrJayremmie

I'd rather sign Hill than Randolph. We know and love Hill, and Randolph is not going to play anyway. We have 2 somewhat injury prone centers, yet we have 3 really good PFs (I think Randolph is a PF?). Oh well. If KP does it, i trust him. I heard that Randolph was good in the scrimmages, so hopefully it pays off.

Damn, i cannot wait for Courtside tommarrow.

Off to class, see ya'll tomarrow.


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## chairman

I am glad we did not sign him. No minutes period. Even if Sergio get zero minutes (Like a few would like) we still would have issues. In the future I see a three guard rotation with Broy, Bayless and Rudy. Then you throw in Blake and Sergio or Koponen or whoever and where would Shaun fit in. No way he sticks around once he is fully recovered.


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