# Game Thread, Bulls vs Clippers, Staples Center, 9:30 pm, WGN, Jan 31



## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

> The Chicago Bulls have shown that they can beat good teams at home. Now they'll try to do the same on the road as they open a seven-game trip against the Los Angeles Clippers on Wednesday night.
> 
> Chicago (26-19) has won six of its last eight games, a stretch that includes home victories over Dallas, San Antonio and defending champion Miami. The Bulls, though, are headed west, and will face division leaders Utah and Phoenix in their second seven-game trip of the season. Chicago went 1-6 on the first trip and is 6-13 on the road this season.
> 
> ...


<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=475 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=subMatchUp align=middle>2006-07 Stats at a Glance</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle><TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle width=235></TD><TD align=middle width=5>@</TD><TD align=middle width=235></TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=middle width=235>News | Players | Stats | Schedule</TD><TD align=middle width=5></TD><TD noWrap align=middle width=235>News | Players | Stats | Schedule</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle><TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap align=middle width=235><TABLE cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=inTxtB colSpan=2>Chicago Bulls </TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>Record: </TD><TD class=inTxt>26 - 19 (.578)</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>Standings: </TD><TD class=inTxt>Second, Central</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>At Home: </TD><TD class=inTxt>20 - 6</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>At Road: </TD><TD class=inTxt>6 - 13</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>Streak: </TD><TD class=inTxt>W 3</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD align=middle width=5></TD><TD noWrap align=middle width=235><TABLE cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=inTxtB colSpan=2>Los Angeles Clippers </TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>Record: </TD><TD class=inTxt>22 - 22 (.500)</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>Standings: </TD><TD class=inTxt>Third, Pacific</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>At Home: </TD><TD class=inTxt>16 - 8</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>At Road: </TD><TD class=inTxt>6 - 14</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>Streak: </TD><TD class=inTxt>W 1</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle><TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD noWrap width=235><TABLE cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=hr align=middle colSpan=4>Season </TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>PPG: </TD><TD class=inTxt>98.9</TD><TD class=inTxtB>Opp PPG: </TD><TD class=inTxt>94.0</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>FG%: </TD><TD class=inTxt>.460</TD><TD class=inTxtB>Opp FG%: </TD><TD class=inTxt>.433</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>RPG: </TD><TD class=inTxt>43.4</TD><TD class=inTxtB>Opp RPG: </TD><TD class=inTxt>41.9</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD align=middle width=5></TD><TD noWrap width=235><TABLE cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=hr align=middle colSpan=4>Season </TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>PPG: </TD><TD class=inTxt>96.5</TD><TD class=inTxtB>Opp PPG: </TD><TD class=inTxt>97.3</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>FG%: </TD><TD class=inTxt>.463</TD><TD class=inTxtB>Opp FG%: </TD><TD class=inTxt>.452</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxtB>RPG: </TD><TD class=inTxt>41.3</TD><TD class=inTxtB>Opp RPG: </TD><TD class=inTxt>39.3</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Back to Top</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle><TABLE border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width=235><TABLE cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=inTxtB width=115>Player</TD><TD class=inTxtB width=30>G</TD><TD class=inTxtB width=30>PPG</TD><TD class=inTxtB width=30>RPG</TD><TD class=inTxtB width=30>APG</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Gordon, B</TD><TD class=inTxt>45</TD><TD class=inTxt>21.6</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.8</TD><TD class=inTxt>3.6</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Deng, L</TD><TD class=inTxt>45</TD><TD class=inTxt>17.8</TD><TD class=inTxt>6.8</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.2</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Nocioni, A</TD><TD class=inTxt>44</TD><TD class=inTxt>15.4</TD><TD class=inTxt>6.0</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.2</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Hinrich, K</TD><TD class=inTxt>43</TD><TD class=inTxt>15.3</TD><TD class=inTxt>3.2</TD><TD class=inTxt>6.3</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Wallace, B</TD><TD class=inTxt>43</TD><TD class=inTxt>6.5</TD><TD class=inTxt>10.1</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.2</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Duhon, C</TD><TD class=inTxt>41</TD><TD class=inTxt>6.4</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.3</TD><TD class=inTxt>4.2</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Brown, P</TD><TD class=inTxt>37</TD><TD class=inTxt>5.0</TD><TD class=inTxt>4.5</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.5</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Allen, M</TD><TD class=inTxt>30</TD><TD class=inTxt>4.1</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.2</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.3</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Sweetney, M</TD><TD class=inTxt>27</TD><TD class=inTxt>3.9</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.9</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.8</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Thomas, T</TD><TD class=inTxt>38</TD><TD class=inTxt>3.7</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.8</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.5</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Sefolosha, T</TD><TD class=inTxt>41</TD><TD class=inTxt>3.7</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.2</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.9</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Khryapa, V</TD><TD class=inTxt>16</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.3</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.1</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.0</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Griffin, A</TD><TD class=inTxt>25</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.2</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.8</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.1</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Barrett, A</TD><TD class=inTxt>3</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.0</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.3</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.0</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=5><TABLE width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=ch width=80>Head Coach: </TD><TD>Scott Skiles</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD align=middle width=5></TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap width=235><TABLE cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=inTxtB width=115>Player</TD><TD class=inTxtB width=30>G</TD><TD class=inTxtB width=30>PPG</TD><TD class=inTxtB width=30>RPG</TD><TD class=inTxtB width=30>APG</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Brand, E</TD><TD class=inTxt>44</TD><TD class=inTxt>20.8</TD><TD class=inTxt>8.9</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.3</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Maggette, C</TD><TD class=inTxt>40</TD><TD class=inTxt>15.5</TD><TD class=inTxt>6.0</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.0</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Cassell, S</TD><TD class=inTxt>33</TD><TD class=inTxt>14.6</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.9</TD><TD class=inTxt>5.6</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Mobley, C</TD><TD class=inTxt>43</TD><TD class=inTxt>12.5</TD><TD class=inTxt>3.4</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.5</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Kaman, C</TD><TD class=inTxt>39</TD><TD class=inTxt>10.1</TD><TD class=inTxt>8.0</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.9</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Thomas, T</TD><TD class=inTxt>41</TD><TD class=inTxt>9.8</TD><TD class=inTxt>4.7</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.0</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Livingston, S</TD><TD class=inTxt>42</TD><TD class=inTxt>9.4</TD><TD class=inTxt>3.4</TD><TD class=inTxt>5.3</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Ross, Q</TD><TD class=inTxt>44</TD><TD class=inTxt>6.2</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.5</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.2</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Ewing, D</TD><TD class=inTxt>32</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.5</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.1</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.0</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Williams, A</TD><TD class=inTxt>24</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.5</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.7</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.3</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Singleton, J</TD><TD class=inTxt>28</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.9</TD><TD class=inTxt>2.1</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.3</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Davis, P</TD><TD class=inTxt>19</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.8</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.6</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.3</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Williams, A</TD><TD class=inTxt>2</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.0</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.5</TD><TD class=inTxt>1.5</TD></TR><TR><TD class=inTxt>Korolev, Y</TD><TD class=inTxt>4</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.8</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.8</TD><TD class=inTxt>0.8</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=5><TABLE width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=ch width=80>Head Coach: </TD><TD>Mike Dunleavy Sr.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>http://www.nba.com/games/20070131/CHILAC/preview.html</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


----------



## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

Skiles has much to gain as 7-game trip tips off 



> The Bulls carried extra incentive as they embarked Tuesday on another dreaded Western trip.
> If they can win the first three games of the seven-game trek -- tonight against the Los Angeles Clippers, Friday against the Seattle SuperSonics and Saturday against the Portland Trail Blazers -- and the Washington Wizards (27-17) lose their next two games, then coach Scott Skiles would get to coach the Eastern Conference All-Star team Feb. 18 in Las Vegas.
> 
> ''Oh, I'm not thinking about that at all,'' Skiles said after practice Tuesday. ''I just want us to play well and win and play better on the road.''
> ...


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...an31,1,2197155.story?coll=cs-basketball-print



> Allen likely on front line to start trip
> Bulls will need him to play big in L.A. if Wallace is absent
> 
> By K.C. Johnson
> ...


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/bulls.asp

Thomas and Bulls reunite: When Bulls fans think of the Clippers, their thoughts probably turn to Elton Brand, the former No. 1 draft pick the Bulls traded to Los Angeles for the rights to Tyson Chandler in 2001.

This year, the Clippers feature another former Bull. Tonight’s game will mark the first time the Bulls have met up with Tim Thomas since sending him home early last season.

Thomas came to the Bulls from New York in the Eddy Curry trade on the eve of training camp in 2005. The 6-foot-10 forward admitted he was out of shape when he began practice, suffered a series of minor injuries and complained about his playing time.

So when Thomas visited his home in the New York area after his wife was injured in a car accident in late November, the Bulls told him to stay there. The Bulls paid Thomas roughly $13 million to do nothing until finally agreeing to a contract buyout once the February trade deadline had passed.

Thomas signed with Phoenix and averaged 15.1 points for the Suns in the playoffs, setting off a wave of second-guessing by NBA analysts who wondered why the Bulls didn’t either use him or trade him.

Last summer, Thomas joined the Clippers as a free agent. He’s averaging 9.8 points and 4.7 rebounds in 25.7 minutes per game.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/sports/236381,311SPT2.article

Given their forgettable record in the post-Michael Jordan era, there is no good time for the Bulls to venture west on an extended road trip.

To do so without their best rebounder and interior defender is worse yet.

That's the hard, cold reality the Bulls may face in Los Angeles tonight, when they meet the Clippers in the opener of a seven-game western swing.

Center Ben Wallace did not test his bruised right knee in practice Tuesday morning, and although no timetable is set for his return, the best guess is he'll sit out the dates against the Clippers (tonight), Seattle SuperSonics (Friday) and Portland Trail Blazers (Saturday).

"I'd say it's uncertain right now," head coach Scott Skiles said of the possibility of Wallace seeing action tonight. "It depends on how he reacts to the flight and how he feels (this morning)."

Skiles said Wallace would not have played if the game had been Tuesday night.

Wallace declined to speak with the media at the Berto Center in Deerfield.

Wallace suffered the injury during Saturday's 100-97 win over Miami, when Heat forward Udonis Haslem fell into him during play in the fourth quarter.

"He has what (medical personnel) refer to as a bruised tendon," Skiles said. "Once he gets over it there shouldn't be any lingering effects. He should be fine with that. It's a matter of how quickly he can get over it."

Until then, center Michael Sweetney and forwards Malik Allen, P.J. Brown and Tyrus Thomas are expected to fill the void on the front line.

"Definitely, I expect to play more minutes," said Brown, 37, who could start in the middle tonight. "If I had my genie, then I'd know how many. But I have to be ready, because it may be a lot."

Even with Wallace, the Bulls went winless on a five-game, seven-day western journey in mid-November.

Bulls players and coaches like to think a lot has changed over the last two months. Since a 3-9 start, the Bulls (26-19) have won 23 of 33 games to move to within one-half game of the Central Division-leading Detroit Pistons (25-17).

"After we won our last three games, especially the ones against Dallas and Miami, our confidence level is pretty good right now," forward Luol Deng said.

Yet the fact remains the Bulls have rarely played well at any venue other than the United Center, where they have 20 victories, tied with the Mavericks for most at home this season (entering play Tuesday).

"I know we're a better team right now, but the other night against Indiana, we didn't play well on the road," Skiles said, referring to a 98-91 loss to the Pacers on Jan. 22. "So it's not whether we can or can't play well on a West Coast trip, but what happens to us when we leave the city of Chicago. We've got to get that figured out."

Of the Bulls' next seven opponents, the SuperSonics, Trail Blazers, Sacramento Kings and Golden State Warriors have sub-.500 records (entering play Tuesday).

"There are games on this trip that, if we bring our 'A' game, we'll either win or have a chance to win," Skiles said. "It's just a matter of doing that."


----------



## chibul (Oct 14, 2006)

So does anyone know if Wallace IS playing or not?


----------



## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Anyone know for sure what the deal is with the game being televised? I have a printed out scheduel stating it's on WGN, but WGN doesn't have it listed on the TV Guide on Dish Network. Is the listing wrong on the guide, or isn't the game on the national WGN?


----------



## StuckOnAutomatic (May 24, 2006)

I think the game is on Chicagoland WGN only. Bummer.


----------



## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

StuckOnAutomatic said:


> I think the game is on Chicagoland WGN only. Bummer.


Yeah, I'm guessing the same. It sucks that they don't just have it on WGN all the time, nationwide, none of this local crap. WGN is useless aside from Bulls' games!


----------



## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

StuckOnAutomatic said:


> I think the game is on Chicagoland WGN only. Bummer.


The Super Station only has weekend or Holiday games like the Martin Luther King game. See this post for the Schedule - only 3 games left for them to air this year:

http://www.basketballforum.com/showpost.php?p=4079318&postcount=10


----------



## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

narek said:


> The Super Station only has weekend or Holiday games like the Martin Luther King game. See this post for the Schedule - only 3 games left for them to air this year:
> 
> http://www.basketballforum.com/showpost.php?p=4079318&postcount=10


MAN, THAT BLOWS!! Thanks for the info, but I'm bummed now. They're not on reg TV very often at all here. Here I had looked at the schedule and saw all the WGN games and was thinking they'd be on TV all the time from here on out. Looks like I'll only get to see 8 of the remaining 37 games


----------



## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

malik is in for ben. deng is crashing the boards hard.


----------



## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

gordan and hinrich each with a bucket. both buckets were in the paint


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Bulls ice cold.


----------



## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

finally a bucket! deng reverse layup and one ft coming up...


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Cassell is working Hinrich right now.


----------



## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

hmmm 4 layups so far. much easier now that kaman has 2 fouls.
announcers (clips) talking about how no one gives wade or rip a harder time than hinrich.


----------



## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

cassell feeling it. 9 pts so far ouch.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Gordon just 1-5.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Tyrus loses the ball off his foot and then commits the foul.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Hinrich hits. He's got 11.


----------



## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

damn sweetney and his fat butt. it just fouled cassell after 22 seconds of good defense 
looks like hinrich is the only one coming to play today.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Tim Thomas drills a 3 as time expires in the first quarter. Clippers lead 31-23.

Hinrich is the only one playing well. The rookies are just brutal right now. Painful to watch.


----------



## CanadianBull (May 6, 2006)

Chops said:


> Tim Thomas drills a 3 as time expires in the first quarter. Clippers lead 31-23.
> 
> Hinrich is the only one playing well. The rookies are just brutal right now. Painful to watch.


Fouls and TO's. Gotta love it...

Nice avatar btw. Ya Boy is awesome.


----------



## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

Chops said:


> Tim Thomas drills a 3 as time expires in the first quarter. Clippers lead 31-23.
> 
> Hinrich is the only one playing well. The rookies are just brutal right now. Painful to watch.


that Thomas three all on Tyrus. wth was he doing trying to guard cassell. noc with a goaltend (grabbing the rim lol). ugly game.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

It's gonna be a long night (or early if we all decide to go to sleep) if Gordon and Deng don't pick it up.


----------



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

one of the clips "keys to the game" (got the LA feed - horrible sound quality)

_Show the Bulls what they traded._

they were talking about EB but man, Timmy just _owned_ at the end of the first. yikes.

"...and skiles on the bench scowling"


----------



## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

pj brown doing his thing! keep kaman off the boards and drawing a charge on magette.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Duhon with a rare 3 point FG and then PJ Brown hits a jumper. I'm shocked. Clippers by 5.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Bulls turn the ball over right out of a timeout. Maggette fouled.


----------



## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

blah mags steals from deng. deng out hinrich back in.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Gordon on the bench for FAR too long.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Sloppy. Nocioni fumbles the ball out of bounds. 8 turnovers. Clippers shooting 52%.


----------



## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

it's like the beginning of the season all over again, so unfocused out there. gordan needs to hit some shots and get some life back in this team.


----------



## CanadianBull (May 6, 2006)

Gordon having a rough shooting night so far. Entire team is looking quite shaky.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Gordon 1-7. Nocioni flying around out of control. Bulls down by 11.

Let's all go to sleep.


----------



## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

Whoa, Pete Myers highlight of the year just a second ago.


----------



## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

my eyes hurt...i'll come back after our 2nd half comeback run...


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

I've been talking abt how dreadful we are going to be on this trip for a while and the first 20 minutes of this game does little to change my mind. We're simply too young, too dumb, too short and not talented enough to win on the road. We've proven this all season long.

Gordon better take his head out of his *** and starting producing in this game. 1-7 shooting thus far and his shot selection has been quite poor.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

LA announcers laughing at PJ Brown trying to make a layup. He missed. "That was one of those 38-year old, below the rim finishes."


----------



## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

The turnovers are just horrific.

We also have no inside presence. P.J. looks okay out there but sometimes I think people have become so used to his ineptitude that they now praise him any time he shows a pulse. I'm not really a fan of the short leash for Tyrus and Sweets. Skiles has seemingly been rewarded earlier in the season when he lets them play through their mistakes. I don't see why he thinks he needs to reverse course now. With Ben out we could use some rebounding in there.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Brand making Sweetney look like garbage... which he is.


----------



## DengNabbit (Feb 23, 2005)

man is Sweetney impoverished defensively


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

My god, Brand is abusing Sweetney out there. Sweetney answers on the other end, but DAMN.


----------



## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

I know I just advocated playing Sweetney more and he's doing a good job on the boards and offense but he cannot guard Brand to save his life.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

3 second violation. Bulls with another turnover. Down 10.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

LA announcers asking "Is this the Ben Gordon we've been hearing so much about?"


----------



## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

JeremyB0001 said:


> The turnovers are just horrific.
> 
> We also have no inside presence. P.J. looks okay out there but sometimes I think people have become so used to his ineptitude that they now praise him any time he shows a pulse. I'm not really a fan of the short leash for Tyrus and Sweets. Skiles has seemingly been rewarded earlier in the season when he lets them play through their mistakes. I don't see why he thinks he needs to reverse course now. With Ben out we could use some rebounding in there.


I think you're right there, any time PJ does ANYTHING we like it because he was SOOOO BAD for quite a while to begin the season.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Cassell misses, tip missed.. Bulls can't rebound, Mobley hits the shot as time expires.

Clippers lead 57-45 at half.


----------



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

LMAO. doug christie, out of the league for A YEAR, comes in, with the hand motion wave kiss thingy. like people missed you doug.

hilarious.


this game however. what happens to the bulls in the second quarter on the road. it's like brain freeze.



damn. mobley. damn.


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

It's always the same old ****ing story :curse:

We'll be lucky to win more than 1 game on this trip. Can't rebound, are very inefficient on offense and committ too many dumb turnovers.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

This team is gonna be a first round exit, AGAIN, if they don't figure out how to play better on the road.


----------



## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

The Bulls certainly earned every bit of the 12 point deficit they have at the half. 

The whole team is playing poorly -- starters, reserves, guards, forwards... It's testimony to something that they're not losing by more than they are. I guess they are playing hard, but this looks like one of the west coast trip games we saw at the start of the year so far.

Hope they get their act together in the 2nd half.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="yspsctbg"><td colspan="13" class="ysptblhdr" height="18">Chicago </td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblthbody1" align="right"> <td class="yspdetailttl" align="left" height="18" width="18%"> Name</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Min</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">FG</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">3Pt</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">FT</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">Off</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Reb</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Ast</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">TO</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Stl</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Blk</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">PF</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">Pts </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> L. Deng</td> <td>11</td> <td>2-7</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-1</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>4 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> M. Allen</td> <td>10</td> <td>2-3</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>4 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> P.J. Brown</td> <td>18</td> <td>2-6</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>2</td> <td>5</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>4 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> B. Gordon</td> <td>15</td> <td>2-8</td> <td>0-1</td> <td>4-4</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>4</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>8 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> K. Hinrich</td> <td>20</td> <td>5-7</td> <td>1-2</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>11 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> A. Nocioni</td> <td>13</td> <td>3-5</td> <td>0-2</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>6 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> T. Sefolosha</td> <td>3</td> <td>0-1</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> M. Sweetney</td> <td>5</td> <td>2-2</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>1-3</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>5 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> T. Thomas</td> <td>2</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> A. Griffin</td> <td>11</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>0 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> C. Duhon</td> <td>6</td> <td>1-1</td> <td>1-1</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>3 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblbdr3"> <td colspan="13" height="1">
</td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblclbg5" align="right"> <td align="left" height="18"> *Totals*</td> <td>114</td> <td>19-40</td> <td>2-6</td> <td>5-8</td> <td>3</td> <td>18</td> <td>11</td> <td>10</td> <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>16</td> <td>45 </td> </tr> <tr align="right"> <td align="left" height="18"> *Percentages:*</td> <td> </td> <td>.475</td> <td>.333</td> <td>.625</td> <td> </td> <td colspan="7" align="left">*Team Rebounds:* 5 </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td height="7">
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="yspsctbg"> <td colspan="13" class="ysptblhdr" height="18"> LA Clippers </td>  </tr> <tr class="ysptblthbody1" align="right"> <td class="yspdetailttl" align="left" height="18" width="18%"> Name</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Min</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">FG</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">3Pt</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">FT</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">Off</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Reb</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Ast</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">TO</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Stl</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Blk</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">PF</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">Pts </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> Q. Ross</td> <td>14</td> <td>0-3</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>0 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> E. Brand</td> <td>17</td> <td>6-8</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>4-6</td> <td>2</td> <td>7</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>16 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> C. Kaman</td> <td>13</td> <td>1-3</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>4</td> <td>3</td> <td>2 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> C. Mobley</td> <td>15</td> <td>3-6</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>1-2</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>7 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> S. Cassell</td> <td>19</td> <td>5-11</td> <td>1-4</td> <td>3-3</td> <td>0</td> <td>4</td> <td>5</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>14 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> T. Thomas</td> <td>14</td> <td>4-8</td> <td>1-3</td> <td>2-2</td> <td>2</td> <td>4</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>11 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> S. Livingston</td> <td>15</td> <td>1-2</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>2 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> C. Maggette</td> <td>9</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>5-6</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>5 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> D. Christie</td> <td>0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblbdr3"> <td colspan="13" height="1">
</td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblclbg5" align="right"> <td align="left" height="18"> *Totals*</td> <td>116</td> <td>20-41</td> <td>2-7</td> <td>15-19</td>  <td>5</td> <td>20</td> <td>11</td> <td>6</td> <td>4</td> <td>6</td> <td>14</td> <td>57 </td> </tr> <tr align="right"> <td align="left" height="18"> *Percentages:*</td> <td> </td> <td>.488</td> <td>.286</td> <td>.789</td> <td> </td> <td colspan="7" align="left">*Team Rebounds:* 6</td></tr></tbody></table>


----------



## CanadianBull (May 6, 2006)

SPMJ said:


> It's always the same old ****ing story :curse:
> 
> We'll be lucky to win more than 1 game on this trip. Can't rebound, are very inefficient on offense and committ too many dumb turnovers.


Eh, we might get wins against Seattle (which I'll be at!) and Portland.


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

CanadianBull said:


> Eh, we might get wins against Seattle (which I'll be at!) and Portland.


Portland's our best shot. Although their home record is still miles better than our road record.

Seattle's too good offensively. That's a guaranteed LOSS.

1-6!

We need Gasol. You can't win on the road shooting jump shots. How many times does that need to be proven over the last 3 years?


----------



## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

mizenkay said:


> LMAO. doug christie, out of the league for A YEAR, comes in, with the hand motion wave kiss thingy. like people missed you doug.
> 
> hilarious.
> 
> ...


Hehe. The fans were barely cheering when he first came in. I think they felt bad after his gesture and then started cheering.


----------



## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

SPMJ said:


> Portland's our best shot. Although their home record is still miles better than our road record.
> 
> Seattle's too good offensively. That's a guaranteed LOSS.
> 
> ...


I think that's pretty silly. We were 20-21 on the road last year when we finished .500 overall. Winning on the road is harder than winning at home but that's about it. Most of the time I don't really buy that certain teams or certain types of teams can't win on the road. The Bulls have played well enough at home that they shouldn't be getting embarassed like this on the road. They just need to play good basketball period.


----------



## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

10-2 run. Nice basket by Deng. He needs to dominate the 6-4 Mobley.


----------



## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

Bulls start the 2nd half with some tough defense. Now, THATS the way to get back in the game!


----------



## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

McBulls said:


> Bulls start the 2nd half with some tough defense. Now, THATS the way to get back in the game!



clips annc'rs: _ bulls have their pants up in the second half, in the first... they didn't._




i swear.


----------



## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

This is the perfect time to go small... Get our four best offensive players in the game.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Bulls still down 11. Gordon still missing.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

All right Bulls, time to pull it together. Close out the quarter strong.


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Tim Thomas slamming it with authority!.

I guess seadoo isn't useless.


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

What is Duhon doing? 

wow. excellent move by Livingston. Now that's how to take it to the hole.


----------



## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Just like that it's back to 10.


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Ben needs to heat up. This is his time.


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

lol Brand isn't getting any respect. I'll have to see the replay on that but Brand has to go up stronger and not act as if the foul is going to be called


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="yspsctbg"><td colspan="13" class="ysptblhdr" height="18">Chicago </td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblthbody1" align="right"> <td class="yspdetailttl" align="left" height="18" width="18%"> Name</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Min</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">FG</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">3Pt</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">FT</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">Off</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Reb</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Ast</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">TO</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Stl</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Blk</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">PF</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">Pts </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> L. Deng</td> <td>21</td> <td>5-13</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>1-3</td> <td>0</td> <td>5</td> <td>1</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>11 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> M. Allen</td> <td>19</td> <td>5-7</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>2</td> <td>4</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>10 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> P.J. Brown</td> <td>30</td> <td>3-8</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>3</td> <td>7</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>3</td> <td>6 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> B. Gordon</td> <td>27</td> <td>4-14</td> <td>0-1</td> <td>6-6</td> <td>0</td> <td>4</td> <td>4</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>14 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> K. Hinrich</td> <td>29</td> <td>5-9</td> <td>1-4</td> <td>0-0</td>  <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>7</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>11 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> T. Sefolosha</td> <td>3</td> <td>0-1</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> A. Nocioni</td> <td>17</td> <td>3-5</td> <td>0-2</td> <td>2-2</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>2</td> <td>8 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> C. Duhon</td> <td>9</td> <td>2-2</td> <td>1-1</td> <td>1-1</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>6 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> A. Griffin</td> <td>14</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>0 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> M. Sweetney</td> <td>5</td> <td>2-2</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>1-3</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>5 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> T. Thomas</td> <td>2</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblbdr3"> <td colspan="13" height="1">
</td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblclbg5" align="right"> <td align="left" height="18"> *Totals*</td> <td>176</td> <td>29-61</td> <td>2-8</td> <td>11-15</td> <td>6</td> <td>29</td> <td>18</td> <td>13</td> <td>3</td> <td>4</td> <td>23</td> <td>71 </td> </tr> <tr align="right"> <td align="left" height="18"> *Percentages:*</td> <td> </td> <td>.475</td> <td>.250</td> <td>.733</td> <td> </td> <td colspan="7" align="left">*Team Rebounds:* 7 </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td height="7">
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="yspsctbg"> <td colspan="13" class="ysptblhdr" height="18"> LA Clippers </td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblthbody1" align="right"> <td class="yspdetailttl" align="left" height="18" width="18%"> Name</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Min</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">FG</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">3Pt</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">FT</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">Off</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Reb</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Ast</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">TO</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Stl</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Blk</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">PF</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">Pts </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> Q. Ross</td> <td>26</td> <td>2-7</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>4 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> E. Brand</td> <td>29</td> <td>8-14</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>6-8</td> <td>3</td> <td>8</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>3</td> <td>3</td> <td>22 </td> </tr>  <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> C. Kaman</td> <td>21</td> <td>1-5</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>4</td> <td>3</td> <td>2 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> C. Mobley</td> <td>21</td> <td>4-8</td> <td>0-1</td> <td>3-4</td> <td>1</td> <td>5</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>4</td> <td>11 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> S. Cassell</td> <td>28</td> <td>5-14</td> <td>1-5</td> <td>3-3</td> <td>0</td> <td>4</td> <td>5</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>14 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> T. Thomas</td> <td>20</td> <td>5-10</td> <td>1-4</td> <td>2-2</td> <td>3</td> <td>7</td> <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>13 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> S. Livingston</td> <td>18</td> <td>2-3</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>4 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> C. Maggette</td> <td>13</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>9-10</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td>  <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>9 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> D. Christie</td> <td>0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblbdr3"> <td colspan="13" height="1">
</td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblclbg5" align="right"> <td align="left" height="18"> *Totals*</td> <td>176</td> <td>27-61</td> <td>2-10</td> <td>23-27</td> <td>9</td> <td>31</td> <td>14</td> <td>9</td> <td>5</td> <td>8</td> <td>22</td> <td>79 </td> </tr> <tr align="right"> <td align="left" height="18"> *Percentages:*</td> <td> </td> <td>.443</td> <td>.200</td> <td>.852</td> <td> </td> <td colspan="7" align="left">*Team Rebounds:* 7</td></tr></tbody></table>


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

lol @ Gordon still leading the team in scoring tonight. This team is in the lottery without him.


----------



## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

spongyfungy said:


> Tim Thomas slamming it with authority!.
> 
> I guess seadoo isn't useless.


Tim Thomas is playing with more energy than I've ever seen him play. Guess he's still mad at the Bulls for their disrespectful treatment of him.


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Furious comeback!

Christie is garbage. PJ blocking machine and best interior defender on the Bulls.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

McBulls said:


> Tim Thomas is playing with more energy than I've ever seen him play. Guess he's still mad at the Bulls for their disrespectful treatment of him.


In that case, I'm glad they got rid of him. If he can only bring high energy because of a "grudge" then screw him.


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

don't think now is the time for Duhon to shoot those threes. Meanwhile the alien drains an open three.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Duhon decides he's not shy anymore and throws up a wild three on the break. Cassell left un-guarded at the other end and drains a long basket. Clippers by 9 and it doesn't look good. 0-1 start to this trip, most likely.


----------



## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

Chops said:


> lol @ Gordon still leading the team in scoring tonight. This team is in the lottery without him.


That may be true but they'd be down 20 tonight if it wasn't for Hinrich. I don't think you can say the same thing about Gordon.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Bulls playing 3 guards, Clippers 4 guards. Their guards are bigger than ours and they're posting up against Duhon and Gordon.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Why is Gordon on the bench?


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

JeremyB0001 said:


> That may be true but they'd be down 20 tonight if it wasn't for Hinrich. I don't think you can say the same thing about Gordon.


But i'm not talking about just tonight.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

LA announcers notice how Hinrich is always just dribbling at the top of the key.


----------



## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Man, **** Tim Thomas.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> Bulls playing 3 guards, Clippers 4 guards. Their guards are bigger than ours and they're posting up against Duhon and Gordon.


Skiles took out Gordon and PJ Brown for Allen and Deng.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Nice dunk Lu! Nice to see the Bulls charging back. You've got to imagine BG is on his way back soon, even if he has been off tonight.


----------



## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

4 point game...

Gordon should be coming back in to finish off the comeback..


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Malik!


----------



## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Credit Skiles for being brave enough to rely on Malik Allen. Nice move.


----------



## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

I hope Tim Thomas shots the clippers out of the game. That guy is shooting it everytime he touches the ball.. i didn't realize someone can hold such a grudge against a team that paid him to go to another team.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Kirk is an absolute machine on both ends of the floor!!!


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Gordon benched for letting Livingston drive by for a dunk.


----------



## CanadianBull (May 6, 2006)

Kirk!

Funny how Bulls fans on the road are more passionate than those at the UC. :biggrin:


----------



## eymang (Dec 15, 2006)

woot!


----------



## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

Captain Kirk is really digging in tonight, but his got to get help from either Gordon or Duhon in the backcourt in the next few mintues of the game.


----------



## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

ben gordan is not all here today


----------



## RoRo (Aug 21, 2002)

wow. gordan with a huge block! get in the game man!


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Wow. Great stop by BG! Looks like he learned not to allow layups!


----------



## CanadianBull (May 6, 2006)

Stupendous play by Gordon there. Saved what would have been an easy dunk for Livingston.


----------



## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

RoRo said:


> ben gordan is not all here today


There is still 3 mins left in the game, his going to hit a shot in that period of time, count on it. Gordon has ice running through his vains, i've never seen him fazed. I hope it doesn't come down to the last shot, but Gordon is due for a buzzer beater soon.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Get blocked a little more, PJ. Sheesh.


----------



## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Jeez.


----------



## CanadianBull (May 6, 2006)

Running the offense through PJ Brown = a coach on drugs.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Livingston is a handful for any of our guards


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Bulls threw this game away.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Jesus, Ben. Use your head. 

Questionable flagrant on Kirk there. Livingston barely fell. Livingston sure is an exciting player.


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Kirk should have wrapped him up better.


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Lawler's law



> In games involving the Clippers since 1978, Lawler's law has been true 91.5% of the time.


wiki


----------



## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

Chops said:


> But i'm not talking about just tonight.


Right. You seemed to indicate he was a vital cog in the Bulls' effort tonight though because he was leading the team in scoring and I'm not sure that's right.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> Jesus, Ben. Use your head.
> 
> Questionable flagrant on Kirk there. Livingston barely fell. Livingston sure is an exciting player.


Clear path to the basket foul is 2 shots and the ball.


----------



## kulaz3000 (May 3, 2006)

No comment from me. Goodnight and good luck..


----------



## lister333 (May 6, 2003)

tough loss


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> Clear path to the basket foul is 2 shots and the ball.



The Bulls announcer says the call was a flagrant, not a clear path. However, Larrivee is a huge douche, so I don't know whether he was right.


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

that sucked hard


----------



## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

Was this as poorly a coached game as it appeared on the yahoo in game boxscore? Why was Skiles yo-yoing Gordon in and out of the game at the end?


----------



## bball_1523 (Dec 16, 2006)

lol the bulls are the stupidest team in the league.


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Skiles drawing an isolation play OFF THE TIMEOUT for PJ in the post with the Bulls down 96-94 is the single most MORONIC thing I've seen a coach do this season. What a retard. This right after PJ got his **** swatted on the Bulls' previous possession. WTF was Skiles thinking? Instead of going to the NBA's most prolific final 5 minute scorer(Gordon) or to the guy whose been hot(Kirk), he draws an isolation for PJ ****ing Brown when the Bulls badly needed a basket. Does he have any idea how huge is psychologically for a team to tie or take the lead late in the game despite being down all night? 

And way to treat the NBA's POTW in the 4th qtr, coach. Great going!


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> The Bulls announcer says the call was a flagrant, not a clear path. However, Larrivee is a huge douche, so I don't know whether he was right.


 *Clear-Path-To-The-Basket Fouls*
A clear-path-to-the-basket foul is called if a personal foul occurs (1) when the ball and an offensive player are positioned between the tip-of-circle extended in the backcourt and the basket in the frontcourt, with no defender between the ball and the basket, (2) the possession originates in the backcourt, including throw-ins, and (3) the foul deprives the offensive team of an opportunity to score. 
*2005-06 Rule:* The team that is fouled is awarded one free throw attempt and the ball on the sideline. 
*2006-07 Rule:* The team that is fouled is awarded two free throw attempt and the ball on the sideline,


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Ah bummer. Sloppy guard play down the stretch was just too much to handle tonight. Gritty effort to tie it back up, but the wheels just completely fell off. Ugly.


----------



## CanadianBull (May 6, 2006)

Fackin hell. Tough loss, after a decent 2nd half performance. Need to beat Seattle and Portland. Simple as that.


----------



## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

SPMJ said:


> Skiles drawing an isolation play OFF THE TIMEOUT for PJ in the post with the Bulls down 96-94 is the single most MORONIC thing I've seen a coach do this season. What a retard. This right after PJ got his **** swatted on the Bulls' previous possession.
> 
> And way to treat the NBA's POTW in the 4th qtr, coach. Great going!


Gordon did not appear to have it tonight.


----------



## ballerkingn (Nov 17, 2006)

WTCF is skiles doing going to p.j 2 straight times for with ben on the court.Then u want to go to ben and what does he do turnover the ball.Now that's not skiles fault but it is for going to p.j twice with ben on the court,that was just dumb.But skiles wasn't the main reason why we lost today,just bad play all game from everyone not name kirk,and allen.Everyone else was terrible,and i don't know why skiles loves to keep playing duh-no he sucks.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> *Clear-Path-To-The-Basket Fouls*
> A clear-path-to-the-basket foul is called if a personal foul occurs (1) when the ball and an offensive player are positioned between the tip-of-circle extended in the backcourt and the basket in the frontcourt, with no defender between the ball and the basket, (2) the possession originates in the backcourt, including throw-ins, and (3) the foul deprives the offensive team of an opportunity to score.
> *2005-06 Rule:* The team that is fouled is awarded one free throw attempt and the ball on the sideline.
> *2006-07 Rule:* The team that is fouled is awarded two free throw attempt and the ball on the sideline,



Good Lord. I know what a clear path foul is. I'm just pointing out that the announcer said a flagrant, not a clear path, foul was called. He may well be wrong. I think it was "questionable" if flagrant, but understandable if clear path.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't mean to be snippy. This loss has me cranky.


----------



## bball_1523 (Dec 16, 2006)

stupid play #1:

PJ brown creating a shot and getting blocked

stupid play #2:

PJ Brown isolated and blocked

stupid play #3:

skiles not drawing plays for gordon

stupid play #4:

flagrant foul


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Kirk you statpadder!!!

:mrt:


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

ballerkingn said:


> WTCF is skiles doing going to p.j 2 straight times for with ben on the court.Then u want to go to ben and what does he do turnover the ball.Now that's not skiles fault but it is for going to p.j twice with ben on the court,that was just dumb.But skiles wasn't the main reason why we lost today,just bad play all game from everyone not name kirk,and allen.Everyone else was terrible,and i don't know why skiles loves to keep playing duh-no he sucks.



Skile's suck's as coach.


----------



## bball_1523 (Dec 16, 2006)

jnrjr79 said:


> Skile's suck's as coach.


He needs to go. He had his share in chicago. Got the bulls to the playoffs, but not sure if he can ever get past the 1st round.

In games like these the team just falls apart too often.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

Bad loss.


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

rwj333 said:


> Gordon did not appear to have it tonight.


You don't keep pulling ur best player in an out of the lineup if he's finally having an off night. What a jerk. I guess he realized he'd simply been too fair with Gordon lately.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

bball_1523 said:


> stupid play #3:
> 
> skiles not drawing plays for gordon



I seem to recall Gordon being given the ball and turning it over twice. Are you watching the same game I am? 

This one is on the players. They didn't execute down the stretch. (Although if both those plays were indeed called for PJ, I do agree that is semi-retarded.)


----------



## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

Going from down 2 with the ball to down 8 in 36 seconds is pretty impressive.

I can't believe Duhon played almost the entire fourth quarter. I thought the days of that were over. I just don't understand how you try to come back from a deficit playing a guard who shoots below 40%.


----------



## Frankensteiner (Dec 29, 2004)

bball_1523 said:


> stupid play #1:
> 
> PJ brown creating a shot and getting blocked
> 
> ...


Gordon losing the ball and then throwing a horrible pass to PJ after stupidly waiting for the double team were perhaps the worst plays down the stretch.


----------



## ballerkingn (Nov 17, 2006)

o yeah and i really wish we didn't have to play p.j so much he looks so old at times it sickening,and hurting us with such a young team.I still think he needs to start,but not play so many mins or be in thier during the closing of game's or be a decoy or a person who can hit a jumper if needed,not someone u throw the ball into the post he's just to old and slow.


O yeah this clips team has to much fire power for us to handle without ben to at least slow EB.We had no answer for what he can do without ben wallace everyone else is either to slow or too old or both.


----------



## Chops (May 30, 2002)

SPMJ said:


> You don't keep pulling ur best player in an out of the lineup if he's finally having an off night. What a jerk. I guess he realized he'd simply been too fair with Gordon lately.


Exactly, if Ben starts slow, Skiles won't give him a chance.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

I thought Skiles handled Gordon properly. He gave him the chance to get hot, he didn't.

The turning point in the game was that nobody could guard Livingston. Seems like Thabo's height would have been useful against Magette and Livingston.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="yspsctbg"><td colspan="13" class="ysptblhdr" height="18"> Chicago </td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblthbody1" align="right"> <td class="yspdetailttl" align="left" height="18" width="18%"> Name</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Min</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">FG</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">3Pt</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">FT</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">Off</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Reb</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Ast</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">TO</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Stl</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Blk</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">PF</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">Pts </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> L. Deng</td> <td>30</td> <td>8-17</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>1-3</td> <td>1</td> <td>9</td> <td>2</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>4</td> <td>17 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> M. Allen</td> <td>27</td> <td>6-10</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>2</td> <td>4</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>4</td> <td>12 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> P.J. Brown</td> <td>40</td> <td>4-11</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>4</td> <td>8</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>4</td> <td>8 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> B. Gordon</td> <td>33</td> <td>5-15</td> <td>0-1</td> <td>7-8</td> <td>0</td> <td>4</td> <td>4</td> <td>5</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>3</td> <td>17 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> K. Hinrich</td> <td>41</td> <td>11-18</td> <td>1-4</td> <td>2-2</td> <td>1</td> <td>4</td> <td>10</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>1</td> <td>4</td> <td>25 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> A. Nocioni</td> <td>22</td> <td>3-7</td> <td>0-2</td> <td>2-2</td> <td>1</td> <td>4</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>2</td> <td>8 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> T. Sefolosha</td> <td>3</td> <td>0-1</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> M. Sweetney</td> <td>5</td> <td>2-2</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>1-3</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>5 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> T. Thomas</td> <td>2</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> A. Griffin</td> <td>14</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>0 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> C. Duhon</td> <td>18</td> <td>2-6</td> <td>1-2</td> <td>1-1</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>6 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="center"> <td align="left"> B. Wallace</td> <td colspan="12">DNP - Coach's Decision</td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="center"> <td align="left"> V. Khryapa</td> <td colspan="12">DNP - Coach's Decision</td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="center"> <td align="left"> A. Barrett</td> <td colspan="12">DNP - Coach's Decision</td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblbdr3"> <td colspan="13" height="1">
</td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblclbg5" align="right"> <td align="left" height="18"> *Totals*</td> <td>235</td> <td>41-87</td> <td>2-9</td> <td>14-19</td> <td>10</td> <td>40</td> <td>22</td> <td>17</td> <td>5</td> <td>7</td> <td>30</td> <td>98 </td> </tr> <tr align="right"> <td align="left" height="18"> *Percentages:*</td> <td> </td> <td>.471</td> <td>.222</td> <td>.737</td> <td> </td> <td colspan="7" align="left">*Team Rebounds:* 11 </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td height="7">
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="yspsctbg"> <td colspan="13" class="ysptblhdr" height="18"> LA Clippers </td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblthbody1" align="right"> <td class="yspdetailttl" align="left" height="18" width="18%"> Name</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Min</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">FG</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">3Pt</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">FT</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">Off</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Reb</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Ast</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">TO</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Stl</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Blk</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">PF</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="8%">Pts </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> Q. Ross</td> <td>29</td> <td>3-8</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>3</td>  <td>6 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> E. Brand</td> <td>38</td> <td>9-17</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>8-10</td> <td>3</td> <td>9</td> <td>3</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>5</td> <td>3</td> <td>26 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> C. Kaman</td> <td>21</td> <td>1-5</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>1</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>4</td> <td>3</td> <td>2 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> C. Mobley</td> <td>27</td> <td>4-9</td> <td>0-1</td> <td>3-4</td> <td>1</td> <td>5</td> <td>2</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>4</td> <td>11 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> S. Cassell</td> <td>35</td> <td>6-16</td> <td>1-5</td> <td>5-5</td> <td>0</td> <td>6</td> <td>6</td> <td>4</td> <td>1</td> <td>1</td> <td>3</td> <td>18 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> T. Thomas</td> <td>31</td> <td>6-13</td> <td>2-6</td> <td>4-6</td> <td>3</td> <td>10</td> <td>3</td> <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>4</td> <td>18 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> S. Livingston</td> <td>30</td> <td>5-7</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>4-4</td> <td>1</td> <td>3</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>3</td> <td>14 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> C. Maggette</td> <td>24</td> <td>3-4</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>9-10</td> <td>1</td> <td>3</td> <td>3</td> <td>2</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>2</td> <td>15 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> D. Christie</td> <td>2</td> <td>0-1</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0-0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="center"> <td align="left"> Z. Rebraca</td> <td colspan="12">DNP - Coach's Decision</td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="center"> <td align="left"> Y. Korolev</td> <td colspan="12">DNP - Coach's Decision</td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="center"> <td align="left"> D. Ewing</td> <td colspan="12">DNP - Coach's Decision</td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="center"> <td align="left"> J. Singleton</td> <td colspan="12">DNP - Coach's Decision</td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="center"> <td align="left"> P. Davis</td> <td colspan="12">DNP - Coach's Decision</td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblbdr3"> <td colspan="13" height="1">
</td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblclbg5" align="right"> <td align="left" height="18"> *Totals*</td> <td>237</td> <td>37-80</td> <td>3-12</td>  <td>33-39</td> <td>10</td> <td>41</td> <td>21</td> <td>13</td> <td>8</td> <td>11</td> <td>26</td> <td>110 </td> </tr> <tr align="right"> <td align="left" height="18"> *Percentages:*</td> <td> </td> <td>.462</td> <td>.250</td> <td>.846</td> <td> </td> <td colspan="7" align="left">*Team Rebounds:* 8</td></tr></tbody></table>


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Frankensteiner said:


> Gordon losing the ball and then throwing a horrible pass to PJ after stupidly waiting for the double team were perhaps the worst plays down the stretch.


Gordon losing the ball was simply an unclucky play given he dribbled it off the other guy's foot. The other turnover wouldn't have been one if PJ could get 2 inches off the ground.

The 2 shots PJ took with the game tied/down 2 was the nail in the coffin. Bulls couldn't recover after those 2 retarded offensive possessions.

And let me say it again, Skiles drawing a post-up play for PJ off the timeout with the chance to tie or take the lead is the single most retarded decision he's made this season.


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Kirk had a good fourth quarter but the team doesn't seem to know what to do with themselves offensively with Gordon struggling. I think he had only 3 points in the fourth and while that's not ok, the team has to learn to score without him.  I also think the Hawk could have come in and calmed down the team offensively and set the tone for the club. Bulls got close then they start to get erratic. Duhon has no idea how to take it to the hole and looked terrible out there. 

Thabo may have been a better matchup with Shaun because he was just shooting over people.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Chops said:


> Exactly, if Ben starts slow, Skiles won't give him a chance.



He played over 33 minutes, so it's not like he was totally benched. I do agree though that despite his struggles, you have to play him over Duhon for at least the last 6 minutes of the fourth.


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> I thought Skiles handled Gordon properly. He gave him the chance to get hot, he didn't.
> 
> The turning point in the game was that nobody could guard Livingston. Seems like Thabo's height would have been useful against Magette and Livingston.


wow, I agree with you. I can't believe it. 

I thought that's why we drafted Thabo, for the long athletic defensive minded guard?


----------



## Frankensteiner (Dec 29, 2004)

SPMJ said:


> Gordon losing the ball was simply an unclucky play given he dribbled it off the other guy's foot. The other turnover wouldn't have been one if PJ could get 2 inches off the ground.


Actually, Gordon losing the ball was Skiles' fault.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> He played over 33 minutes, so it's not like he was totally benched. I do agree though that despite his struggles, you have to play him over Duhon for at least the last 6 minutes of the fourth.


Looked to me like Skiles did offensive/defensive substitutions with the two (Du, Gordon) from about 3:45 left on.


----------



## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> I thought Skiles handled Gordon properly. He gave him the chance to get hot, he didn't.
> 
> The turning point in the game was that nobody could guard Livingston. Seems like Thabo's height would have been useful against Magette and Livingston.



Agreed. Livingston with his height and explosiveness was really exploiting our guard size issue. I'm surprised Thabo didn't take some of those Duhon minutes. Wasn't Duhon just in the doghouse? It's hard to figure out these rotations sometimes.


----------



## Babble-On (Sep 28, 2005)

Gordon had a bad game, and he needs to find a way to beat those double teams. Might be hard because of his height.

The inability of the other guys on the team to make anything happen in these types of types of late, close game situations are what make me leery of trading Gordon, even with Gordon's flaws.

Nocioni is clearly a far better player as a starter. Thats a concern.


----------



## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

I dislike the strategy of blaming Skiles for everything that goes wrong. Gordon had a rough night and he still played more minutes than he averages. That said if he drew up any plays for P.J. down the stretch that's ridiculous. I don't understand how Brand only had five blocks, it seemed like he swatted Brown about 7 times. To revisit what I said before, Brown finishes 4 of 11 for 8 points with 8 boards in 40 minutes. Maybe his defense on Brand kept us in the game but otherwise he didn't play very well. Tyrus, Sweets, and Khryapa (assuming he was activated in place of Ben) maybe should have played some of those minutes.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> Agreed. Livingston with his height and explosiveness was really exploiting our guard size issue. I'm surprised Thabo didn't take some of those Duhon minutes. Wasn't Duhon just in the doghouse? It's hard to figure out these rotations sometimes.


They must have posted up Magette all by himself in the post (isolation play) against Gordon 4 or 5 times in a row and he scored every time.

Gordon switched over to Livingston and he blew by him for a dunk right away.

Even Hinrich didn't guard Livingston well. They're showing this same replay over and over where he posted up Hinrich on the fast break, then went up and under move and made the wide open layup. It was a huge bucket at the time, too.

Malik Allen had a huge game for us. Without him, I think we lose by 30.

And Hinrich had an oustanding game. I think he had 10 assists in the 2nd half, and didn't shoot too many 3's.


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

FT differential was the deciding factor. 19 to 39 FTA.

PJ is a good defender but his outside shooting is not consistent enough and Malik's jumpshooting is better, making PJ redundant. We need better ways of scoring down on the block. 

This team is screaming for Gasol.


----------



## Frankensteiner (Dec 29, 2004)

I didn't even notice the multiple Gordon substitutions in the 4th until checking the post game PBP. I would agree that's excessive, especially for bringing in Duhon (although Du didn't embarass himself out there like usual).


----------



## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> I thought Skiles handled Gordon properly. He gave him the chance to get hot, he didn't.
> 
> The turning point in the game was that nobody could guard Livingston. Seems like Thabo's height would have been useful against Magette and Livingston.


Good post.


----------



## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

It's hard to come back from 12-16 points down on the road. The Bulls just can't afford all the turnovers they made if they want to win on the road.

The good news is that the Bulls managed to make a spirited run at the end and tie it up before collapsing at the end.

Gordon, Deng and Nocioni are going to have to play better if the Bulls plan on winning anything on this road trip.

PJ and Malik played as well as you could expect, although both players looked tired in the 4th quarter. Like it or not, the Bulls better play Sweetney a bit more than they did tonight.

The rookies played themselves out of the game in the second quarter. It was painful to watch. Sometimes you wonder if they'll every grow up.


----------



## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

C'mon people. Look on the bright side.

Skiles played PJ Brown 40 minutes, he is happy, and he doesn't want to get traded anymore!!

See Thomas played 2 minutes. Must have farted in the huddle again. 

Good plan giving Brown all those minutes and Thomas none. Forget developing those athletic rooks, with PJ WE ARE GOING PLACES THIS YEAR!!!


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

I didn't think SKILES would ever be able to top his atrocious coaching job in Denver earlier this season during the Circus Road Trip but he did it tonight. Dreadful play calling in the 4th qtr and benching our only 4th qtr hope just because he was having off night. That too for a completely incompetent player like Duhon. CONGRATS Skiles!


----------



## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

spongyfungy said:


> I thought that's why we drafted Thabo, for the long athletic defensive minded guard?


Yeah, but he was terrible tonight in the second quarter. So terrible that I for one didn't want to see him again unless the game got out of hand. This was a winnable game. Put Thalbo in only if you want to be sure of losing it.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Salvaged Ship said:


> C'mon people. Look on the bright side.
> 
> Skiles played PJ Brown 40 minutes, he is happy, and he doesn't want to get traded anymore!!
> 
> ...


Thomas was like +/- of -8 in just a few minutes.


----------



## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

How long will PJ live off that Mavericks performance? 
When will Duhon be the reliable ball dribbling guy?
That was a quiet 17 from Deng (again)


----------



## bdeezee (Jan 29, 2007)

hey spongyfungy..i sent you a PM. could you get back to me?


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

spongyfungy said:


> That was a quiet 17 from Deng (again)


Deng's been very disappointing lately. He's gone from a perennial 2nd half disappearing artist to someone lately who just flat out struggles to score if not set up perfectly for wide open jumpers or in transition. He badly needs to work on creating his own shot. This team is too dependant on Gordon and Kirk.


----------



## ChiSox (Jun 9, 2004)

Skiles got out coached. They put tall people on Ben and doubled him everytime they ran the pick and roll. You can't run pick and role every play. 

I don't understand why other teams can isolate their top scorers so the can't get doubled like Gordon. Wade was able to be isolated on Kirk in the Heat game.

My point is there are ways to spread the floor and let you best scorers go to work. Ben had a bad game because he had to take tough shots.

The PJ Brown post up was terrible. On the turnover where Ben was doubled by PJ's man and Livingston. He threw the ball to PJ, the ball appeared to hit his hand. I'm not saying it was a good pass but PJ has to catch that pass.

Ben is your best scorer and Skiles treated him like a rookie. You don't take him out the game and put Duhon in. You just don't do that. Gordon is one of the most clutch players in the NBA. Is he trying to mess with Gordon's confidence?


----------



## Frankensteiner (Dec 29, 2004)

Clips are pretty good at home and we played without Big Ben so I'm not going to lose any sleep over this game.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Just an FYI

<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">2:08</td><td valign="top">Tyrus Thomas enters the game for Ben Gordon</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">*20-23*</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:53</td><td valign="top">Andres Nocioni bad pass</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">20-23</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:45</td><td valign="top">Tyrus Thomas personal foul (Corey Maggette draws the foul)</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">20-23</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:45</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">20-23</td><td valign="top">Corey Maggette misses free throw 1 of 2</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:45</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">20-24</td><td valign="top">*Corey Maggette makes free throw 2 of 2*</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:45</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">20-24</td><td valign="top">Los Angeles offensive rebound</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:32</td><td valign="top">Tyrus Thomas bad pass (Sam Cassell steals)</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">20-24</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:29</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">20-24</td><td valign="top">Sam Cassell misses 22-foot jumper</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:27</td><td valign="top">Tyrus Thomas defensive rebound</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">20-24</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">1:17</td><td valign="top">*Kirk Hinrich makes 25-foot three point jumper (Thabo Sefolosha assists)*</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">23-24</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:49</td><td valign="top">Michael Sweetney shooting foul (Sam Cassell draws the foul)</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">23-24</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:49</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">23-25</td><td valign="top">*Sam Cassell makes free throw 1 of 2*</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:49</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">23-26</td><td valign="top">*Sam Cassell makes free throw 2 of 2*</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:36</td><td valign="top">Thabo Sefolosha bad pass (Elton Brand steals)</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">23-26</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:33</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">23-28</td><td valign="top">*Tim Thomas makes driving dunk (Sam Cassell assists)*</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:08</td><td valign="top">Thabo Sefolosha misses 18-foot jumper</td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">23-28</td><td valign="top"> </td></tr> <tr class="oddrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:07</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">23-28</td><td valign="top">Elton Brand defensive rebound</td></tr> <tr class="evenrow"><td valign="top" width="50">0:00</td><td valign="top"> </td><td align="center" nowrap="nowrap" valign="top">*23-31*</td><td valign="top">*Tim Thomas makes 27-foot three point running jumper (Sam Cassell assists)*</td></tr></tbody></table>


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Frankensteiner said:


> Clips are pretty good at home and we played without Big Ben so I'm not going to lose any sleep over this game.


Uhuh...

Would you lose any sleep once we eventually go 1-6 on this road trip?


----------



## Frankensteiner (Dec 29, 2004)

SPMJ said:


> Uhuh...
> 
> Would you lose any sleep once we eventually go 1-6 on this road trip?


Yes. That would be terrible. We should win the next 2 games.


----------



## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> Thomas was like +/- of -8 in just a few minutes.


The guy played a grand total of 2 minutes. Can't believe it was all his fault in those two minutes, but benching him for the remainder of the game??

Am I the only one who thinks this kid developing is a major key to any chance we have come May? The two times he did start he was a major contributor. If he doesn't develop in to a productive player soon and we don't make a trade, we have no prayer in the playoffs. I am sick of seeing retread relics like Brown and Allen. We need to recognize Thomas needs to develop, we need the shot blocking and athletism, and he won't develop AT ALL picking splinters out of his behind.

And that line you posted when Thomas was in the game? Many times this year you could have posted that type of stretch for Brown, Wallace, Gordon, Deng. Those guys get back in. give the kid a chance Skiles


----------



## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

I wonder if people are finally going to shut the hell up about Kirk supposedly sucking? 25 points, 61.1% FG%, 10 assists, 1 block, 3 steals, 4 rebounds & ZERO turnovers! You don't get much better than that.

As usual DuChump blew. Almost 19 minutes, 6 points, 1 assist, 2 turnovers, on 33% shooting. Damn, there's no way in hell that Thabo could do THAT good, so lets just play him 3 minutes!!! 

The difference was 20 FTs. 33-39 for the Clips, 14-19 for us. Odd thing is, the fouls are about even, with the Bulls committing 30, the Clips 26. You'd expect a lot bigger discrepancy in the # of fouls given the # of FT attempts per team.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Salvaged Ship said:


> The guy played a grand total of 2 minutes. Can't believe it was all his fault in those two minutes, but benching him for the remainder of the game??
> 
> Am I the only one who thinks this kid developing is a major key to any chance we have come May? The two times he did start he was a major contributor. If he doesn't develop in to a productive player soon and we don't make a trade, we have no prayer in the playoffs. I am sick of seeing retread relics like Brown and Allen. We need to recognize Thomas needs to develop, we need the shot blocking and athletism, and he won't develop AT ALL picking splinters out of his behind.
> 
> And that line you posted when Thomas was in the game? Many times this year you could have posted that type of stretch for Brown, Wallace, Gordon, Deng. Those guys get back in. give the kid a chance Skiles


He's been +/- big - in most of the last 10 games he's played, if not all. Against Dallas, he was -12. Look at the play by play. Do you think he was out there guarding Tim Thomas (I do)?


My gripe with tonight is that Thabo didn't get some PT against the 4 guards lineup that we faced. We played 3, Duhon, Gordon, Hinrich, but they had two guys 6'6 and 6'7 and we were just too short.


----------



## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

I was at this game, and I found it to be probably the most disturbing loss I can remember from a Bull team. Ben Wallace looked to me to be completely disinterested in the game, not involved in team huddles, not high-fiving anybody after time-outs. I thought Skiles' treatment of Gordon was pretty absurd. He's your best player and the reigning eastern conference player of the week, at some point you're going to have to live and die with him. The final three minutes of a tight game is not the time to be teaching lessons. All in all, this is the closest I've ever come to the "fire Skiles" club. I don't think the vets respect him, and I don't think the young guys like him. I know he's a good game strategist, but I just don't see him coaching a championship team.


----------



## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Salvaged Ship said:


> The guy played a grand total of 2 minutes. Can't believe it was all his fault in those two minutes, but benching him for the remainder of the game??
> 
> Am I the only one who thinks this kid developing is a major key to any chance we have come May? The two times he did start he was a major contributor. If he doesn't develop in to a productive player soon and we don't make a trade, we have no prayer in the playoffs. I am sick of seeing retread relics like Brown and Allen. We need to recognize Thomas needs to develop, we need the shot blocking and athletism, and he won't develop AT ALL picking splinters out of his behind.
> 
> And that line you posted when Thomas was in the game? Many times this year you could have posted that type of stretch for Brown, Wallace, Gordon, Deng. Those guys get back in. give the kid a chance Skiles


I think you're in the majority there. Lots of us, myself included of course, would prefer to see Tyrus out there playing than the old stiffs. Even if it did cost us a couple games, it'd pay dividends in the end, be it the playoffs this year, or next season. You don't just let a talent waste away on the bench so you can play Brown and Allen. It's retarded. Just like leaving Sefolosha on the bench in place of DuChump. The kid's got some major talent and potential, so why bench him in favor of a guy who has no talent, no potential, and no current production?


----------



## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

jbulls said:


> I was at this game, and I found it to be probably the most disturbing loss I can remember from a Bull team. Ben Wallace looked to me to be completely disinterested in the game, not involved in team huddles, not high-fiving anybody after time-outs. I thought Skiles' treatment of Gordon was pretty absurd. He's your best player and the reigning eastern conference player of the week, at some point you're going to have to live and die with him. The final three minutes of a tight game is not the time to be teaching lessons. All in all, this is the closest I've ever come to the "fire Skiles" club. I don't think the vets respect him, and I don't think the young guys like him. I know he's a good game strategist, but *I just don't see him coaching a championship team.*



I never have either. I definitely wish we still have P Jax, even with his ego. He at least knew when to play people, and how to use players properly. Skiles is clueless. As you said, sitting Gordon, and playing guys like Duhon instead of Thabo, especially when we're outsized as is...put the 6'7" guy out there instead of the 6'1" guy that sucks.


----------



## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

SPMJ said:


> I didn't think SKILES would ever be able to top his atrocious coaching job in Denver earlier this season during the Circus Road Trip but he did it tonight. Dreadful play calling in the 4th qtr and benching our only 4th qtr hope just because he was having off night. That too for a completely incompetent player like Duhon. CONGRATS Skiles!


Define benched. Gordon played most of the 4th and 33 minutes in total. I don't know what game you were watching. Hinrich was on fire and yet Gordon on a poor shooting night is our only chance of winning the game?


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)




----------



## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

DaBabyBullz said:


> I never have either. I definitely wish we still have P Jax, even with his ego. He at least knew when to play people, and how to use players properly. Skiles is clueless. As you said, sitting Gordon, and playing guys like Duhon instead of Thabo, especially when we're outsized as is...put the 6'7" guy out there instead of the 6'1" guy that sucks.


I don't much care how much time Thabo logs on a game to game basis, but the benching of Gordon was just beyond the pale to me. The scenario is essentially this.

player a : eastern conference player of the week. averaging 24 / 4 / 3 for the month of january.

player b : shooting NINE for FORTY SEVEN from the field for the month of january. 

player a makes a poor defensive play late in a tight game. do you :

a : stick with player a as your team's fortunes in this game and future games are pretty directly linked to his play?

or

b : bench player a and insert player b.

I have a hard time seeing how there's any benefit at all to inserting Duhon in this scenario. When Gilbert Arenas turns the ball over does Eddie Jordan get Roger Mason Jr off the bench? That's a bit of an extreme example, but come on. I thought it was humiliation for humilation's sake.


----------



## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

JeremyB0001 said:


> Define benched. Gordon played most of the 4th and 33 minutes in total. I don't know what game you were watching. Hinrich was on fire and yet Gordon on a poor shooting night is our only chance of winning the game?


Skiles benched him. The game was tied, Gordon let Livingston by him for a lay-up, Skiles immediately gave him the hook. I don't think benching your key guys after poor plays late in games is a good policy. That goes for Gordon, Deng, Hinrich, whoever. Our young guys have to be able to play without looking over their shoulders perpetually. Let them play through mistakes.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

jbulls said:


> I don't much care how much time Thabo logs on a game to game basis, but the benching of Gordon was just beyond the pale to me. The scenario is essentially this.
> 
> player a : eastern conference player of the week. averaging 24 / 4 / 3 for the month of january.
> 
> ...


You make a good point. However, Gordon turned the ball over twice in 1:20 with the game on the line (5 times total), and he was getting scored upon at will at the other end. His block on Livingston's fast beak layup attempt was one of the bright spots in his game tonight.

One of those turnovers led to the Livingston fast break and the Hinrich clear path (or flagrant type 1) foul and a 4 point turnaround.

Gordon didn't play the final 2:00, but if the game were in reach at that point, I do think he would have been in.

The guy played hard, but just didn't have it tonight.

The Clippers benched Cassell for like the last 3 1/2 minutes with a 1 point lead and played 6'7" Livingston and 6'6" Magette at the guards the rest of the way. The matchups just didn't favor playing a guy who wasn't scoring at one end and too short in the matchup at the other end. The theory must be that Duhon may not get you points but he's not going to be a sieve at the other end.


----------



## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

DaBullz said:


> Thomas was like +/- of -8 in just a few minutes.


Haha. It's funny because that's all I could think about when I was watching the game tonight. Tyrus comes in and immediately makes a couple terrible plays as he's been known to do the last few games, so I know he's already in the red. Then he makes a competant pass which Sweetney flubs and one or two possessions later Thabo throws the ball away. All I could think was "Man this is so unjust that Tyrus is going to somehow get blamed for this." I'll just never understand how Thabo throwing the ball away when Tyrus is standing 20 feet away in the corner somehow bears on Tyrus' contribution to the team.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

JeremyB0001 said:


> Haha. It's funny because that's all I could think about when I was watching the game tonight. Tyrus comes in and immediately makes a couple terrible plays as he's been known to do the last few games, so I know he's already in the red. Then he makes a competant pass which Sweetney flubs and one or two possessions later Thabo throws the ball away. All I could think was "Man this is so unjust that Tyrus is going to somehow get blamed for this." I'll just never understand how Thabo throwing the ball away when Tyrus is standing 20 feet away in the corner somehow bears on Tyrus' contribution to the team.


FWIW, Thabo only played 3 minutes.


----------



## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> You make a good point. However, Gordon turned the ball over twice in 1:20 with the game on the line (5 times total), and he was getting scored upon at will at the other end. His block on Livingston's fast beak layup attempt was one of the bright spots in his game tonight.
> 
> One of those turnovers led to the Livingston fast break and the Hinrich clear path (or flagrant type 1) foul and a 4 point turnaround.
> 
> ...


I don't think that was the thinking. Duhon was inserted on offense with the team down a bucket, not on defense, and then taken back out in favor of Gordon about a minute later. Whether or not Gordon had it tonight is almost a non-issue. Duhon didn't have it, and made some bad plays down the stretch too. With 3 minutes left, in a tight game, I want our best players in.


----------



## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

jbulls said:


> Skiles benched him. The game was tied, Gordon let Livingston by him for a lay-up, Skiles immediately gave him the hook. I don't think benching your key guys after poor plays late in games is a good policy. That goes for Gordon, Deng, Hinrich, whoever. Our young guys have to be able to play without looking over their shoulders perpetually. Let them play through mistakes.


Ok. You define benched as substituted out of the game whereas I interpret it as a complete or substantial deprivation of minutes. Like I said, Gordon played most of the fourth quarter and played more minutes than he averages despite a rought night. The fact that he was reinserted back into a close game shortly after the incident you described contradicts the idea that Skiles was trying to punish or embarass him. I wrote earlier in this thread that Skiles should let Sweetney and Tyrus play through their mistakes more but Gordon is a different case. He's back in the starting lineup and averaged 36 MPG in January. I don't think he's looking over his shoulder at all.


----------



## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

According to K.C. the call was a flagrant.



> Meanwhile, Shaun Livingston scored on a layup and started a four-point possession with a steal from Gordon and two free throws after Hinrich got called for a flagrant with 2:05 remaining. Brand took advantage of the extra possession by draining a 12-foot baseline jumper.


It really didn't seem like a very hard foul to me.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune...gamer,1,3105800.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines


----------



## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

JeremyB0001 said:


> Ok. You define benched as substituted out of the game whereas I interpret it as a complete or substantial deprivation of minutes. Like I said, Gordon played most of the fourth quarter and played more minutes than he averages despite a rought night. The fact that he was reinserted back into a close game shortly after the incident you described contradicts the idea that Skiles was trying to punish or embarass him. I wrote earlier in this thread that Skiles should let Sweetney and Tyrus play through their mistakes more but Gordon is a different case. He's back in the starting lineup and averaged 36 MPG in January. I don't think he's looking over his shoulder at all.


Don't mean to be glib here, but yes Gordon is a different case. You treat your leading scorer differently than you treat a morbidly obese guy averaging 9 minutes a game and a project rookie.


----------



## ballerkingn (Nov 17, 2006)

*I agree with jbulls that you should treat your leading scorer differently.* *For example, you should treat* *B*en *differently,* def*initely,* though *in his defense* he was expect*ing* help to be th*ere* or *[for somebody]* to at least cut off *L*ivingston*.* 
*D*eng *(*and *I* think*)* *M*aggette bumped heads*.* *B*en didn't know that happen*ed* and was expecting help to at least be th*ere* to de*t*er *L*ivingston and not give up such an easy dunk.

Still though*,* that shouldn't have happened, and *I* think that *B*en is too used to having *B*en *W* th*ere* to save him *(*which was *one* of *S*kiles*'* issues early on*)*.


*I'm* not sure if *S*kiles underst*oo*d what happened with *D*eng and *M*ag[]gette[/b] and *[redundant word "just" deleted]* assumed that *B*en just allowed a dunk that eas*ily* *-- a*nd to *S*kiles *[word "def" deleted for clarity]* a play like that would *be* upset*ting.* *It would upset * me too as a coach to see that, but if he saw everything that *I* said then he should at least *have* underst*ood* enough to leave *B*en out th*ere* and get it back. *[word "And" deleted for clarity]* *B*en is the only player that can win us a game*,* so *[word "to" deleted for clarity]* tak*ing* him out is dumb. I'm sure *P*hil *J*ackson wouldn't take out *K*obe for the same thing*, b*ecause he knows *K*obe could answer or win the game.

*[Word 'And" deleted for clarity]* *A*lso*,* th*ere* was no excuse to run *two* plays for *P.J.,* esp*ecially* after getting bl*ocked* the *first* time*,* to then only do it again. That*'*s d*i*srespecting *K*irk and *B*en, and d*isr*especting *B*rand as a def*ender. Elton* is a very good def*ender* and *one* of the best shot bl*ockers* in the entire league. *In my opinion is was j*ust dumb to change him like that. would have tried *K*irk or even *D*eng over *P.J.*

*[word "and" deleted for clarity]* *As a* matter of fact*,* where is *D*eng every *fourth quarter?* *S*ee, that's why *I* would have traded him for *G*asol*;* because *D*eng is usless in the *Fourth*. To me*,* that not a star*:* because stars *[apostrophy deleted from "star's"]* have heart*,* *[word "and" deleted for clarity]* *k*no*w* how to take over a game and *know* how not to dissapear everytime th*eir* team needs them. That*'s* why *I* would never trade *B*en and *why I* consider him a star*,* or at least a future star. Deng is a super role player in my book, *and is* no where near a star.


Edited for translation to semi-readable English. Spacing added after periods and commas not noted. TB#1


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

JeremyB0001 said:


> According to K.C. the call was a flagrant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It was clear path foul. A flagrant foul was called, tho, because it was the refs' way of warning hinrich not to do it again for the rest of the game. The difference in the two types of fouls being the flagrant is like a technical - two times and you're out.


----------



## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

jbulls said:


> Don't mean to be glib here, but yes Gordon is a different case. You treat your leading scorer differently than you treat a morbidly obese guy averaging 9 minutes a game and a project rookie.


You're missing my point. You suggested one of the biggest problems with pulling someone because of a mistake is that the player will start looking over their shoulder but there's no reason Gordon would fear being subbed at a moments notice when Skiles is playing him over 35 minutes a night. Similarly, the fact that Skiles is playing Gordon so many minutes indicates that he's not in the habit of pulling Gordon after mistakes (unless Gordon plays 36 minutes of error free ball every night).

Furthermore, who's to say Skiles even considered Livingston blowing by Gordon to be a mistake? Maybe he just thought Gordon was a poor matchup with Livingston and held the misguided belief that Duhon would be a better matchup.


----------



## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

I got the chance to go to this game. It was like vintage 2005-2006 Bulls with Skiles headscratching rotations and Kirk Hinrich dominating the ball.

-Kirk shot very well, but other than that the offense did not flow at all. Offense looks like such a chore with him as "floor general." I'm sorry, but if you hold the ball that much and for that long, you deserve anything that's coming to you. He doesn't look up at all especially when there's an open Ben or Luol. His idea of clutch offense was going iso with PJ Brown and Malik Allen. The only time he gave the ball to Ben was off that curl. Otherwise he sought offense with PJ and Malik. It's one thing to get them involved but a whole other when you pass the ball to these non main-scoring options about 2 times down the court out of 3. It seems like when he has one of these double double nights (or at least this one and that one against NJ) we lose and one or all of the core 3 (Deng, Nocioni, Gordon) are "mysteriously" not showing up. 

-The only time I saw Luol involved on the offense was on the fast break. The guy got his, quietly, but he didn't get the ball nearly enough.

-Gordon had an off-night, made a key turnover, and Skiles couldn't get Duhon in there quick enough. He made quite a few turnovers from being trapped in a corner after running that ridiculous curl where he meets two defenders. It always looks awkward and it just reeks turnover. When Skiles took out Gordon the final time to teach him a lesson, the game swung from a 4 to a 12 point deficit in no-time flat, making Duhon look even worse. The only time Ben looked good was a brief stretch when Duhon and he were guards, but Skiles decided that they were having too much fun out there.


----------



## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

JeremyB0001 said:


> You're missing my point. You suggested one of the biggest problems with pulling someone because of a mistake is that the player will start looking over their shoulder but there's no reason Gordon would fear being subbed at a moments notice when Skiles is playing him over 35 minutes a night. Similarly, the fact that Skiles is playing Gordon so many minutes indicates that he's not in the habit of pulling Gordon after mistakes (unless Gordon plays 36 minutes of error free ball every night).
> 
> Furthermore, who's to say Skiles even considered Livingston blowing by Gordon to be a mistake? Maybe he just thought Gordon was a poor matchup with Livingston and held the misguided belief that Duhon would be a better matchup.


Duhon was inserted on offense. If Skiles wants to play the offense/defense match-up game late, that's fine, he could've called time out's and done that. That wasn't what was happening there. For what it's worth, Skiles did the same thing with Luol Deng earlier in the game when he threw a pass away. I'm not a fan of seeing our borderline All-Star guys get the gong show treatment in favor of Adrian Griffin and Chris Duhon when they make mistakes. Sorry.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Gordon, who has been so dominant this month, scored 17 points on 5-of-15 shooting with five turnovers.

"I probably left him out there too long," Skiles said. "I just kept going to him because we do that. But it was a poor defensive game on his part and he had trouble handling and shooting the ball. It was just one of those games. He was due. He had been on an unbelievable streak."

Said Gordon: "You're going to have nights like that. You just have to fight through. We had a lot of chances. I had some terrible turnovers down the stretch that really hurt us."

EDIT: That's from the KC Johnson game recap.


----------



## bdeezee (Jan 29, 2007)

good to see us blow it once again in a close game. im so damn frustrated right now. 

the sad thing is...i think there were more bulls fans in attendance then clippers fans.

by the way im a new here.


----------



## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

jbulls said:


> Duhon was inserted on offense. If Skiles wants to play the offense/defense match-up game late, that's fine, he could've called time out's and done that. That wasn't what was happening there. For what it's worth, Skiles did the same thing with Luol Deng earlier in the game when he threw a pass away. I'm not a fan of seeing our borderline All-Star guys get the gong show treatment in favor of Adrian Griffin and Chris Duhon when they make mistakes. Sorry.


Haha. Fair enough. I don't like that idea either. I'm just not sure it's fair to impute motives when we're talking about a few isolated incidents over the course of a season. If it happened on a regular basis there'd be no other logical conclusion to be drawn than that Skiles is trying to punish the players or show them up but under these circumstances we have to remember we're not inside the guy's head or even on the bench for that matter. If he thought Ben really didn't have it tonight and was hurtinng the team out there then it made sense to pull him - I don't think that's unreasonable - and he had to pull him sometime. It probably wasn't going to be immediately after he made a great play.


----------



## RSP83 (Nov 24, 2002)

Our team just couldn't find a way to score. We relied on Gordon and Hinrich too much on late game situation. When things didn't work the way we want like tonight, we're screwed. The hardest critic should be on Deng. He's not a factor at all in the 4th.

Other than that, it was clear that our size hurt us. Seeing PJ Brown battling against Brand and Kaman was painful too watch. We just couldn't make a stop. We really miss Ben Wallace tonight. Defensively we just didn't scare them at all.


----------



## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

DaBullz said:


>


LOL @ Duhon.


----------



## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

> Quiet for the first 21 minutes, Brand then awoke in a big way. He scored 14 straight points on six possessions, including two traditional three-point plays. He victimized Michael Sweetney for most of this stretch, backing him down and either hitting a turnaround jumper or drawing a foul.
> 
> "That was a torture chamber down there," Skiles said. "And that got Elton going. I probably made a mistake by putting Mike on him because Mike clearly wasn't ready to come in the game right then. Elton burned him bad."


LOL. Skiles is cold.


----------



## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

TripleDouble said:


> LOL. Skiles is cold.


That was about as ugly a 5 minute stretch of one on one defense I've seen all season. Brand ate Sweets alive.


----------



## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

bdeezee said:


> good to see us blow it once again in a close game. im so damn frustrated right now.
> 
> the sad thing is...i think there were more bulls fans in attendance then clippers fans.
> 
> by the way im a new here.


Were you at the game, or just guessing from TV? BTW, welcome to the board new guy!


----------



## bdeezee (Jan 29, 2007)

DaBabyBullz said:


> Were you at the game, or just guessing from TV? BTW, welcome to the board new guy!


nah man i live in the chicago area. it just seemed like every time the bulls scored they got a bigger reaction from the crowd then the clippers did the entire game.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

The 6ft Hurdle said:


> Offense looks like such a chore with him as "floor general." I'm sorry, but if you hold the ball that much and for that long, you deserve anything that's coming to you. He doesn't look up at all especially when there's an open Ben or Luol.


Kind of funny how you think 10 assists and 0 turnovers is such a horrific way to lead an offense. Did you ever think that the offense wasn't as efficient as it could have been because our best offensive player didn't shoot well, only attempted one three and had yet another 5 turnover game? Is it possible that your favorite player's "off-night" affected more players than simply himself? 



> -The only time I saw Luol involved on the offense was on the fast break. The guy got his, quietly, but he didn't get the ball nearly enough.


Luol took 17 shots last night. He averages 13.8 FGA on the season.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Salvaged Ship said:


> The guy played a grand total of 2 minutes. Can't believe it was all his fault in those two minutes, but benching him for the remainder of the game??
> 
> Am I the only one who thinks this kid developing is a major key to any chance we have come May? The two times he did start he was a major contributor. If he doesn't develop in to a productive player soon and we don't make a trade, we have no prayer in the playoffs. I am sick of seeing retread relics like Brown and Allen. We need to recognize Thomas needs to develop, we need the shot blocking and athletism, and he won't develop AT ALL picking splinters out of his behind.
> 
> And that line you posted when Thomas was in the game? Many times this year you could have posted that type of stretch for Brown, Wallace, Gordon, Deng. Those guys get back in. give the kid a chance Skiles


I generally agree 100% with you here, but I'm trying to put it in perspective of this game. And I think this was a game we needed to win, at least in Skiles' eyes. Starting a tough road trip, we needed to get off to a good start and notch a win. If things go badly on this trip, and/or Ben Wallace is out for a long time, we could find things going south in a hurry. 

So I understand the logic of not playing the kids.

On the other hand, jbulls is making a pretty inescapable point about the treatment Gordon and Deng got. It's one of those games that makes you question whether Skiles has something wrong with him that just won't let him turn over the fate of the game to his best players.

You wonder whether he's a pro coach or a college coach.


----------



## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

VincentVega said:


> Kind of funny how you think 10 assists and 0 turnovers is such a horrific way to lead an offense. Did you ever think that the offense wasn't as efficient as it could have been because our best offensive player didn't shoot well, only attempted one three and had yet another 5 turnover game? Is it possible that your favorite player's "off-night" affected more players than simply himself?


You probably needed to watch the game to understand that the offense did not flow well. It wasn't as bad as the New Jersey game, but offense looked like such a chore. This particular night when Ben Gordon was struggling, he only got the ball from Kirk Hinrich running his *** off to the corner to that ridiculous curl. 

Ben Gordon has to "prove" that he's hot for him to get the ball any other way. I know he made about 2-3 turnovers just off that double team trap in the corner. He also had an ugly one in open space where he was looking for Kirk, but also had the itch to shoot. However, he was trying to take it to the hoop when he got it once he knew his shot was off. 8 FTAs. Could've been more if Skiles did not get itchy fingers to remove him for just about every mistake he made, including that very last one, but I doubt you'd concede that cause they're never to blame.

It's basic fundamental basketball, if the ball doesn't circulate too much to your best scorers, it's not going to look pretty. You're going to get your assists if you dribble, dribble, and dribble and finally kick to an open Malik Allen or PJ Brown. Not that they shouldn't be involved, but those were Kirk's main boys last night, and they took 10 shots each. Malik Allen wasn't too bad, but PJ Brown, man...when these guys got the ball, you knew they were going to shoot it.

There was also a stretch where Duhon and Gordon were in. Suddenly Gordon out of nowhere momentarily snapped out of his slumber and scored 4 points. The game was within 4. Clippers ended with a mini-run of their own, and the quarter ended.

When it really mattered, Kirk did shoot us INTO the game the final moments of the game, tied it at 94-94 but he couldn't get it to our best guys when it really mattered, and when he finally did, our guy in a terrible position on the court surrounded by 2 defenders, and another anticipating the double team pass, made a costly mistake, which just amplified everything for Skiles and led him to stick Du in for good.

Other things I watched since I rarely get to watch games in person:

-Kirks defense always looks a lot peskier in person, no different tonight. Another bright spot for your boy.

-The mistakes from other players like Ben, Du, and Deng look a lot more grave when they finally get the ball, and they make a mistake, and I just knew Skiles would pull each one after that. And he did...once for Deng, about twice for Gordon.

-Deng looks much faster and athletic in person. He was also getting to the hoop a lot, but one play that sticks out from mind is where he was trying to post up and he got swatted. Future 4...maybe not...yet.

-Shaun Livingston is lightning quick, he burned Du and Ben each once for lay-ups. I was really surprised.

-Sweets is just sad on defense. Since he's got such girth and immobility, he's a foul magnet. I remember one play where Cassell just ran into him and he got called for a foul.


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

I didn't see any of this game, but there's something that surprised me in the AP game recap -- the Bulls have played a league-high 26 home games so far, and every other team in the Eastern Conference has more road wins than they do.

I'm disappointed to hear that Thomas got so little run, especially in light of "Sweets's" nightmare. I was assuming Wallace's absence would give TT a chance to do some things.


----------



## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

The 6ft Hurdle said:


> Ben Gordon has to "prove" that he's hot for him to get the ball any other way.


Yeah, because Gordon never has any games where he's 4-14, 7-20 or 5-15 from the field. The Bulls are simply out to get him.


----------



## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

Skiles is really starting to piss me off. I'm just going to leave it at that.


----------



## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> Skiles is really starting to piss me off. I'm just going to leave it at that.


Seriously? 

If you are being sarcastic, I can't tell.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

ballerkingn said:


> *I agree with jbulls that you should treat your leading scorer differently.* *For example, you should treat* *B*en *differently,* def*initely,* though *in his defense* he was expect*ing* help to be th*ere* or *[for somebody]* to at least cut off *L*ivingston*.*
> *D*eng *(*and *I* think*)* *M*aggette bumped heads*.* *B*en didn't know that happen*ed* and was expecting help to at least be th*ere* to de*t*er *L*ivingston and not give up such an easy dunk.
> 
> Still though*,* that shouldn't have happened, and *I* think that *B*en is too used to having *B*en *W* th*ere* to save him *(*which was *one* of *S*kiles*'* issues early on*)*.
> ...



Is it wrong...?


----------



## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Is it wrong...?


No. That is incredible. And he actually makes some good points, too!


----------



## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

rwj333 said:


> Seriously?
> 
> If you are being sarcastic, I can't tell.


Yes, seriously. He always pisses me off in games, actually. He always has and he probably always will. But I've come to accept that he's a very good basketball coach and knows a hell of a lot more about what he's doing than I do.

I'm glad he's the Bulls coach, so don't get me wrong.

But his quirky rotations boggle my mind and, in my opinion, sometimes literally cause the team to lose games they would have otherwise won. 

Sweetney was bringing NOTHING to the table last night. So why did he stay in the game to get abused by the infinitely quicker Brand? He got lit up like a Christmas tree and and it completely changed the complexion of the game. It reminded me of the second quarter of the away game against Houston when rotations led to a loss. 

Give Thomas a chance out there in that scenario. Whats the worst that could happen, Brand light him up for 14 straight points? Oh. That happened anyway.

And I agree with jbulls and others about Gordon and Deng. Duhon and Griff getting a combined 32 minutes as a result of some quick hooks? In the past I've always grudgingly agreed with Skiles about hooking Gordon and Deng if they messed up. But those days are over. These guys are borderline allstars now. Its ****ing official. Time to lengthen that rope and treat them accordingly.

End rant.


----------



## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

Ron Cey said:


> Skiles is really starting to piss me off. I'm just going to leave it at that.


If I was into conspiracies, I'd suggest Skiles deliberately blew the game to kill all chances of him having to coach in the all-star game, thereby depriving his assistants of a bonus.

:raised_ey


----------



## ballerkingn (Nov 17, 2006)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Is it wrong...?


Please don't do that,it's very annoying for people on here to do stuff like that.I don't bother any of u guy's post which are just as hard if not harder to read sometimes.Plus u know WTF i'm talking about and even if u don't ask me i will try to clear it up for u.But again if u want to be of help tell the admin to get spell check on here.Other wise leave my post's alone thank you.


----------



## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

ballerkingn said:


> Please don't do that,it's very annoying for people on here to do stuff like that.I don't bother any of u guy's post which are just as hard if not harder to read sometimes.Plus u know WTF i'm talking about and even if u don't ask me i will try to clear it up for u.But again if u want to be of help tell the admin to get spell check on here.Other wise leave my post's alone thank you.


God is dead, but grammar lives.
-Nietzsche


----------



## ballerkingn (Nov 17, 2006)

lol all i can do is laugh mcbulls at what u said lol!

By the way who is Nietzsche.and how does he know god is dead.


----------



## bre9 (Jan 8, 2006)

I don't understand why are two leading scorers were off tonight. And why does kirk only play well on the road half the time. Bulls needs to find themselves.


----------



## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

ballerkingn said:


> lol all i can do is laugh mcbulls at what u said lol!
> 
> By the way who is Nietzsche.and how does he know god is dead.


One way of thinking about this aphorism is that regardless of whether you choose to believe it or not, there are rules in the universe (e.g. gravity). Those who know the rules and obey them most of the time find they have less trouble. Those who break the rules pay the consequences. 

In the case of internet posting, following the rules of grammar helps you express yourself more clearly so most people will understand what your point is. The consequence of not following grammatical rules is that most people will not bother to read what you wrote. Moreover, they might incorrectly conclude that you are incapable of following grammatic rules because you are poorly educated or stupid.


----------



## Qwst25 (Apr 24, 2004)

ballerkingn said:


> But again if u want to be of help tell the admin to get spell check on here.Other wise leave my post's alone thank you.


I don't even think a spell check could fix your posts. I rarely try to read your writing.


----------



## The Krakken (Jul 17, 2002)

McBulls said:


> One way of thinking about this aphorism is that regardless of whether you choose to believe it or not, there are rules in the universe (e.g. gravity). Those who know the rules and obey them most of the time find they have less trouble. Those who break the rules pay the consequences.
> 
> In the case of internet posting, following the rules of grammar helps you express yourself more clearly so most people will understand what your point is. The consequence of not following grammatical rules is that most people will not bother to read what you wrote. Moreover, they might incorrectly conclude that you are incapable of following grammatic rules because you are poorly educated or stupid.


I can't begin to tell you how amused I am right now.:biggrin: :lol:


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

ballerkingn said:


> Please don't do that,it's very annoying for people on here to do stuff like that.I don't bother any of u guy's post which are just as hard if not harder to read sometimes.Plus u know WTF i'm talking about and even if u don't ask me i will try to clear it up for u.But again if u want to be of help tell the admin to get spell check on here.Other wise leave my post's alone thank you.


As I said on another thread, the point is, you seem to have something interesting to say, but your writing style makes your posts so difficult to read, a lot of posters are just passing you by. For example, to my eyes, the lack of spacing is as tiring on the eyes as an all caps post.

It looks like my edit led to a lot of piling on, and I regret that.

It seems from that reaction, though, that a lot of folks have trouble reading what you are typing. 

Sorry to have picked on you. Mostly, I hope to see posts from you that aren't so hard to read, because I really AM interested in what you have to say.


----------

