# Batum says Derrick can't play defense.



## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

> "We know that Derrick Rose is a good offensive player," Batum told the paper. "But you have to play defense, too. He can't guard Dre. You gotta play defense. He can't play defense, so that's why we put Dre inside and try to attack him. He did a great job. Had [27 points] and 11 [assists] tonight."


We all know Andre Miller has played well against the Bulls for the majority of his career but its not like hes dominating us lol.

He also must have forgotten that 7 point 6 ast master piece that Miller dropped on us back in December. 

Andre Miller is a very underrated player for his career but if Batum really thinks "Dre" cant be guarded by Rose is just stupid. Want to talk about not being able to guard anyone how bout look at the damn match up the past 3 years. 

Andre Miller vs Bulls last 3 years he has a very respectable
17 ppg 7 ast on 47% shooting

Derrick Rose vs Andre Miller the last 3 years
23 ppg 7 ast *54*% shooting and a handful of Youtube videos thanks to Miller.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> We all know Andre Miller has played well against the Bulls for the majority of his career but its not like hes dominating us lol.
> 
> He also must have forgotten that 7 point 6 ast master piece that Miller dropped on us back in December.
> 
> Andre Miller is a very underrated player for his career but if Batum really thinks "Dre" cant be guarded by Rose is just stupid.


Look Rose played really bad defense last night. But he has turned himself into a solid defender this season. Sometimes he can be flat out great defensively. 


> Want to talk about not being able to guard anyone how bout look at the damn match up the past 3 years.
> 
> Andre Miller vs Bulls last 3 years he has a very respectable
> 17 ppg 7 ast on 47% shooting
> ...


I agree Rose is better then Miller.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

caseyrh said:


> Look Rose played really bad defense last night. But he has turned himself into a solid defender this season. Sometimes he can be flat out great defensively.
> 
> 
> I agree Rose is better then Miller.


I dont want to argue with you, Rose played awful against Golden State and I have 0 issues with calling Rose out on a bad defensive night but what bothers me is this idea that he had a bad night last night. Miller ran pick and roll all night, that's not an offense that you can shut down one on one. Miller did *not make ONE BASKET* in the fourth quarter, 10 points all at the FT line on basically just a pick and roll drive fouled by late help defense.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> I dont want to argue with you, Rose played awful against Golden State and I have 0 issues with calling Rose out on a bad defensive night but what bothers me is this idea that he had a bad night last night. Miller ran pick and roll all night, that's not an offense that you can shut down one on one. Miller did *not make ONE BASKET* in the fourth quarter, 10 points all at the FT line on basically just a pick and roll drive fouled by late help defense.


Your right. Rose played solid D last night. 

It was all Deng's fault because he wasn't helping enough in the pick and roll game. (even though his man wasn't setting the screen). Happy?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

caseyrh said:


> Your right. Rose played solid D last night.
> 
> It was all Deng's fault because he wasn't helping enough in the pick and roll game. (even though his man wasn't setting the screen). Happy?


No because I never once said it was all Deng's fault, I love how you fully ignore when I said that Boozer played 0 defense but you get all worked up when I say Deng's help defense was terrible, which it was. 

If a team runs pick and roll all night long you have a couple of options on how to defend it, you go over the screen, go under the screen, trap or even deny the ball from even getting to the PG. The Bulls did not attempt to trap the ball at the arc so thats a no go, Rose was not killed by Miller when he went under the screen since Miller hit only a couple of Jumpers, when Rose went over the screen the help defense was supposed to either cut off Miller or flash help then cover Aldrige, the help defense arrived too late and by time the help d was there Miller was already under the ft line leading to a foul.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

I'm so glad you guys could spill your dispute over into this thread too.... just what the rest of us were hoping for.


Anyway, I think Rose is an above average defender for a PG today with the potential to be an elite level defensive PG tomorrow. I think it is important to note that there is no such thing as a shutdown PG in today's NBA... the way the rules are written it is almost impossible to guard players one on one around the perimeter. I'm not particularly worried about one good game out of a savvy veteran like Andre Miller... that kind of thing happens to everyone in this league.


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## CosaNostra (Sep 16, 2010)

I don't understand why Bulls fans get so upset when people point out what is ultimately true- Rose is average defensively and mostly because he's inconsistent. Some nights he'll play very good fundamental defense, other nights he will try to be too flashy and make silly mental mistakes. He's improved every year he's been in the NBA on that end though, so there's no reason to believe that he won't become a consistently good defender in the near future.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

CosaNostra said:


> I don't understand why Bulls fans get so upset when people point out what is ultimately true- Rose is average defensively and mostly because he's inconsistent. Some nights he'll play very good fundamental defense, *other nights he will try to be too flashy and make silly mental mistakes.* He's improved every year he's been in the NBA on that end though, so there's no reason to believe that he won't become a consistently good defender in the near future.


Can you give us an example of Derrick Rose trying to be "too flashy" on defense? Not quite sure what you mean by that.


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## CosaNostra (Sep 16, 2010)

Dornado said:


> Can you give us an example of Derrick Rose trying to be "too flashy" on defense? Not quite sure what you mean by that.


I think that he does a lot of risky things like try to jump passing lanes too often, and for being one of the fastest players in the NBA, a lot of times he looks incredibly slow on the defensive end (at least in comparison to his top speed). He's improving, and his defense this year compared to last year is a lot further along, but he's still inconsistent. He needs to focus more on playing fundamental defense every game. I like his growth though. While he can still look slow, he has done a lot to improve his footwork moving backward, and it shows he is dedicated and motivated to become better.


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## BullFan16 (Jun 2, 2003)

It doesn't help that he has to play alongside keith "brick" bogans who has played horrible defense. He has no help defending the perimeter.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Dornado said:


> I'm so glad you guys could spill your dispute over into this thread too.... just what the rest of us were hoping for.


The truth is, we make up about half of the posts in this forum. We are 50% of the reason this thing is even active anymore. If there were more people involved in the discussions this board would be a lot more interesting and it wouldn't be a constant back and forth between me and a couple other posters. 

If "the rest of you" of you are upset about it then sorry. But we are having a great season and "the rest of you" rarely ever post, it's disappointing to me. As i always apprecciate hearing the opinions of yourself, king J, Wynn, etc... but you guys never seem to be around anymore. 

I think if I stopped arguing with Bizkit, Bulls96 and occasionally Da Grinch there would be virtually nothing going on on this board anymore.



> Anyway, I think Rose is an above average defender for a PG today with the potential to be an elite level defensive PG tomorrow.


I pretty much agree with this, All I'm saying is he played really bad D last night. And I'm not even blaming him because he had such a great scoring game, that it's understandable that something had to give.



> I think it is important to note that there is no such thing as a shutdown PG in today's NBA... the way the rules are written it is almost impossible to guard players one on one around the perimeter. I'm not particularly worried about one good game out of a savvy veteran like Andre Miller... that kind of thing happens to everyone in this league.


I'm not worried about it either. It happens, it's just one bad game. But I have been commenting on every game this year, and when I make comments every game I typically point out what I felt happenned in every game(I.E. who played good who played bad, etc...)

Last night I felt Rose played bad D, normally I think Rose plays good D.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

BullFan16 said:


> It doesn't help that he has to play alongside keith "brick" bogans who has played horrible defense. He has no help defending the perimeter.


I thought Bogans played excellent D last night.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> No because I never once said it was all Deng's fault, I love how you fully ignore when I said that Boozer played 0 defense but you get all worked up when I say Deng's help defense was terrible, which it was.


Because Boozer played horrible D last night. You think I argue with you just because I want to argue with you. I don't disagree with everything you say, I just disagree with a lot of it. 

I'm not sure where you got the Deng's help D was horrible thing from. To me it just sounds like you need a scapegoat so you pin it on Deng. I watched the game and I didn't come away with that opinion at all. Night in and night out I watch Deng scrambling to cover the open men and close out on open perimeter shooters (that aren't his man) It is a great defensive scheme that Thibs implemented and it is all about collapsing and then rotating aggressiveley. It seems to me that Deng is the best player on the team as far as rotating defensiveley.

I didn't see anything in this game to make me think Deng played such horrible help D when normally he is so good at it.

I did however see Rose have an unusually bad game defensively. He let Miller torch us. And to point to a specicific play that killed us defensively, he made a really awful and key foul, which really hurt us, when he fouled Rudy Fernandez on a 3 point attempt with 5:48 left in the game. Then Rudy proceeded to make all 3 ft's. to go from a 3 point game to a 6 point game.


But it's just one game, he is normally much better. I think he was just tired from the scoring load he had to carry. And Rose certainly wasn't why we lost the game, just played bad on one end of the court one night. It happens.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Hopefully Batum gets traded somewhere so D-Rose gets another shot at him this season


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

CosaNostra said:


> I don't understand why Bulls fans get so upset when people point out what is ultimately true- Rose is average defensively


I don't think anyone has an issue with the idea that Rose is an average defender, what I personally have issue with is Batum saying that Rose CANT defend and CANT defend Andre Miller. That's just false, in fact I think if you look at the stats Derrick Rose is one of the better defending PG's in the NBA, not many players have scored much on him, I know it doesn't seem like it but its true. 



> Because Boozer played horrible D last night. You think I argue with you just because I want to argue with you. I don't disagree with everything you say, I just disagree with a lot of it.


Dude Luol Deng played terrible help defense, HE DID. I'm not making this up just look at the game again if you get the chance, please trust me when I say that its not some personal vendetta against the guy. 



> I did however see Rose have an unusually bad game defensively. He let Miller torch us. And to point to a specicific play that killed us defensively, he made a really awful and key foul, which really hurt us, when he fouled Rudy Fernandez on a 3 point attempt with 5:48 left in the game. Then Rudy proceeded to make all 3 ft's. to go from a 3 point game to a 6 point game.


The Fernandez foul was dumb but also a smart play by Fernandez, he leaned into Rose its not like Rose flew himself into Fernandez. Miller torched us because of the poor help defense, again you are not looking at the game close enough. Lamarcus Aldrige dropping jumpers and dunks on us hurt us more than the Fernandez foul also, so don't make it sound like Rose cost us the game on a foul, besides the Bulls came back and cut it to 3 points before Aldrige scored 8 consecutive points.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

caseyrh said:


> If "the rest of you" of you are upset about it then sorry. But we are having a great season and "the rest of you" rarely ever post, it's disappointing to me. As i always apprecciate hearing the opinions of yourself, *king J*, Wynn, etc... but you guys never seem to be around anymore.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

Really, though, I'll attempt to step up my game a bit. KVBL often has my free time, but I can up my efforts.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Yeah, I need to post more too... work has been a real bitch lately. And Casey, don't get me wrong, I appreciate the activity... I was just giving you a hard time.




On topic, I don't really agree with the perception that Rose is too much of a risk taker defensively... he may have lapses in focus, and not yet fully understand defensive positioning, but I don't think he's out there gambling.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

King Joseus said:


> Really, though, I'll attempt to step up my game a bit. KVBL often has my free time, but I can up my efforts.





Dornado said:


> Yeah, I need to post more too... work has been a real bitch lately. And Casey, don't get me wrong, I appreciate the activity... I was just giving you a hard time.


Yeah I get it, I'm not trying to bust your guys balls. This posting stuff is supposed to be fun so doing it shouldn't feel like work. I really only named you guys because I was responding to Dornado, and King J's update of the player of the game thread was on my mind.

But This is the only and first forum I ever joined (well actually I just joined a hockey forum but rarely post)and all I really do is post in the bulls forum. So I can see how I might be annoying and overbearing but honestly sometimes i just try to get some back and forth going to keep this entertaining.



> On topic, I don't really agree with the perception that Rose is too much of a risk taker defensively... he may have lapses in focus, and not yet fully understand defensive positioning, but I don't think he's out there gambling.


Yep I agree he doesn't fit the gambling mold. He just loses focus at times or gets caught out of position, sometimes he gets glued to screens but he has gotten much better at that this year.
Often he is a dominant defender but normally in short spurts. 

I think Miller gives him problems because he doesn't rely on athleticism. Miller is used to being slower and not as good of a jumper as the guys defending him. So it's not quite so easy for Rose to neutralize him with superior athleticism.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

CosaNostra said:


> I don't understand why Bulls fans get so upset when people point out what is ultimately true- Rose is average defensively and mostly because he's inconsistent. Some nights he'll play very good fundamental defense, other nights he will try to be too flashy and make silly mental mistakes. He's improved every year he's been in the NBA on that end though, so there's no reason to believe that he won't become a consistently good defender in the near future.



I'm not sure this post has much basis. Bulls fans "get so upset" when people point out Rose is "average" defensively? I doubt that very much. In fact, prior to this year, I think the consensus would have been that Rose was a _below_ average player on the defensive end (and not just slightly so). The only reason to bristle at Batum's remarks is that in this season alone, Derrick has made great strides on the defensive end. He has at times been a lock-down defender, and has improved greatly his on-ball defense and shot-blocking. But I doubt anyone would quibble with you that he is still very inconsistent and that that inconsistency means he's only an average defender right now.

I also agree with you that given his current strides, there's no reason to believe he can't be an elite defender if he's inclined to develop that part of his game.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

An update from the Trib:



> Batum had told the Oregonian after Monday's 109-103 Portland victory that the Bulls guard couldn't handle Andre Miller, who scored 27 points.
> 
> "We know that Derrick Rose is a good offensive player," Batum told the newspaper. "But you have to play defense, too. He can't guard Dre. You gotta play defense. He can't play defense, so that's why we put Dre inside and try to attack him."
> Batum attempted to clarify his remarks Tuesday on the French basketball website BasketSession.com (translation courtesy of OregonLive.com):
> ...


http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2011/02/blazers-batum-backs-off-criticism-of-roses-d.html


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## BenDengGo (Feb 1, 2004)

we need more people to take shots at derrick, that will make him angry and work even harder on himself.
expect lock down d by derrick no later then next season!!!


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## TheDarkPrince (May 13, 2006)

thebizkit69u said:


> We all know Andre Miller has played well against the Bulls for the majority of his career but its not like hes dominating us lol.
> 
> He also must have forgotten that 7 point 6 ast master piece that Miller dropped on us back in December.
> 
> ...


Funny because Miller almost never guarded Rose on the other end. How many times has Rose broken that old man's ankles over the past few years? It's funny because on that spin move, Miller was trying to say Rose hooked him, while the replay clearly shows he just raped Miller yet again.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

TheDarkPrince said:


> Funny because Miller almost never guarded Rose on the other end. How many times has Rose broken that old man's ankles over the past few years? It's funny because on that spin move, Miller was trying to say Rose hooked him, while the replay clearly shows he just raped Miller yet again.


Miller is a good defender also, he just cant guard Derrick. That spin move is just another Derrick Rose torching Andre Miller youtube clip. 

As for Batum I see now that the comment's are changed but honestly he know's what he said and if hes a man he should just stand by what he said and not pretend like his word's where just misunderstood.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Miller is a good defender also, he just cant guard Derrick. That spin move is just another Derrick Rose torching Andre Miller youtube clip.



Honestly, how many players have the requisite quickness to guard Derrick? Not being able to keep up with him shouldn't be a big criticism.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Rose has had a spell of bad defense these past two games, and the "craftier" PGs give him some trouble (DJ Augustin particularly), but he's been elite this season, in my opinion -- above average at worst. Is it of little coincidence that most of the games the Bulls have lost without Noah was when Rose's defense was below average?


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## limufujuan (Oct 20, 2004)

I must say Rose play very good on Deron today. Deron just cannot pass Rose. And what a steal in the final minute to seal the win. This just show how good D Rose can play.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Yeah I need to get more posts up again soon too. Being busy with my college applications, getting home around 9pm almost every night because of basketball, and then recently getting into a car accident, I haven't been on the internet all too much.


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