# Suns Draft Plan 04'



## [email protected] (Jul 31, 2003)

This is what I say the suns should do, please chip in your thoughts:

We could possibly end up with three picks in the first round this year, so root for the cavs to make the playoffs and stay out of the lottery. So, how I see it, we have 3 main positions to be addressed: PG,SG,C
so on that note heres 's how I'd like to see it go

----------------------------The PG Spot----------------------------------------
I'd like to see the PG spot filled by either Shaun Livingston or Shebastian Telfair, we use either our pick or our pick from the Knicks on this one, depending which one is better. It is very likely though that if we pursue Telfair and not Livingston that our pick from Cleveland (If they stay out of the lotto) would be in good position to pick up on him, but I do believe Livingston is better and we should use one of our high picks on him.


--------------------------The SG Spot------------------------------------------
I'd of course like them to be able to sign Kobe or AI, but really this position should be 3rd to the Center and Point in this draft IMO. If it comes to it though, I'd like to see simply a scorer, but really this draft isn't very SG rich so I'll let you guys decide this one.


---------------------------The C Spot------------------------------------------

We need to use our highest pick on this position, IMO. Okafor and Pavel Podkolzine should be our main focuses. I'd like to see the Knicks start losing and the Cavs start winning so we could end up with like a 3-5 pick for Okafor/Pavel, and a 7-12 pick for Shaun Livingston at PG.
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Now, would this be one heck of a young and coming line-up for the Suns or what?

C- (Okafor or Pavel)/ Voskhul
PF- Amare/ Googs or whoever
SF- Marion/Charbarkabla
SG- (Kobe or AI, yeah I know keep dreaming)/ Joe Johnson
PG- (Livingston/Telfair)/Barbosa


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

They should draft the best player available.

I like the highschool guys although I am not sold on Livingston.

Among the college guys I like Warrick, Okafor, Iguodala, Luke Jackson and Harrison (maybe).
I like none of the current foreign prospects and I think after going international last year we shouldn't again.


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## shyFX325 (Jul 28, 2002)

the suns would be fools to use a high pick on a PG right now... FOOLS. No matter what you hear from others getting the rights to milos vujanic was jsut as attractive as the salary cap space they picked up in the deal. Drafting another PG will put milos in the same situation he was in NY; not coming over just to battle for playing time.

As far as picking up okafor with the pick i think that would be questionable as well. Think he has the strength but not the height to play center in the west. With amare there as a similarly sized PF hwo would they work together (havent seen enough of amres game to say for sure)?? 

As far as picking warrick goes its the worst idea of them all, where would he fit in with amare and marion


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

You pick the best players available no matter what.

Even if Warrick would play backup he is terrific.


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## shyFX325 (Jul 28, 2002)

lol... i would hardly describe him as terrific at a collegiate level


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## shyFX325 (Jul 28, 2002)

my team to describe why your theory of choosing the best player available is not practical is the chicago bulls.. always have gtood intentions and always try to choose the best player available but all it has done for them is have them trade away good players to make room for these "best players" and cause team friction over PT


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>shyFX325</b>!
> my team to describe why your theory of choosing the best player available is not practical is the chicago bulls.. always have gtood intentions and always try to choose the best player available but all it has done for them is have them trade away good players to make room for these "best players" and cause team friction over PT


Among 9 other teams, the Denver Nuggets passed on Paul Pierce because they were banking on Eric Williams recovering from an injury after he was averaging 20ppg for them over about a 20 game stretch in 1998.

Olowokandi, Lafrentz, Tractor Traylor, Jason Williams, and Larry Hughes were all taken ahead of Pierce because those teams drafted for need. It is a pretty well known rule among elite-drafting NBA teams that you get the best player you can.

Avery Johnson was in his mid-thirties and on the decline, and the Spurs could have drafted for need in 1997 and drafted one of two point guards who both looked ready to be stars in the NBA at PG in Chauncey Billups and Antonio Daniels.. they took the best player and I think things worked out for them..


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Also Warrick would give us a starter and great talent if we were to get rid off Marion.

Sign and trade Marion for Kobe, Sign Camby

Camby
Amare
Warrick
JJ
Kobe


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## amd pwr (Jun 24, 2003)

they shouldn't try to get kobe next year because joe johnson is playing terrific right now. they should try to move up and make sure they can get pavel!!!

pavel
stoudamire
marion
johnson
barbosa/mujavic

this is a awesome lineup


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

I will eat crow if we draft Pavel , I think he is the worst possible pick. I would have to puke if it happens.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> I will eat crow if we draft Pavel , I think he is the worst possible pick. I would have to puke if it happens.


Pavel is very mobile, young, and HUGE. I really, really wish we could get Camby, but I also wouldn't be against drafting Pavel if we end up with the 5th-6th pick unless another surefire prospect is there..

If Phoenix scouts him and they think he's a good choice, I'd fully back their opinion given the track record. If he's no good like you say he isn't, they're just not going to draft him.. plain and simple.

Right now, no one knows enough about him to say.. I saw a video of his workout with the Heat and was only mildly impressed, but I think people are looking at the fact that he's not getting minutes for his team overseas too much..

I think it'd be great if Cleveland snuck in as an 8th seed and we could use a mid-first pick on a guy like Araujo who will be ready to come in and contribute right away.. who knows though.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Pavel is huge -> he will never be able to run with the Suns, look at Ming who is very mobile and not as heavy but already gets exhausted when the Suns run on him

Pavel is injury prone.

Pavel isn't good enough to get minutes on a mediocre european team.

Pavel is said to have an attitude.

Pavel couldn't get a lottery guarantee last season, he has not improved I think.

I would also not mind trading that damn Cavs pick back to the Cavs for say Diop.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

I agree with BigAmare. Pavel is garbage and is only looked at for size and age. He wouldnt be able to start right away even if he is half as good as hes projected to be. Hes only like 18 years old. 

I'm not sure what picks the Suns have, but I think within the range of 10-20 they should snatch Raymond Felton if hes available. Hes a smart, athletic, quick as hell point guard who likes pass first and make plays for his teammates over himself. Catch him tomorrow on ESPN in the UNC-Duke game. 

As far as the center position, dont bank on Okafor. You'd be lucky to get a pick high enough to draft him, and hes only 6'9 anyways. Thats hardly tall enough to compete at center. 

You might have to stick with Voshkuhl for a little while until something presents itself. I'm not sure of any good center prospects in the draft.


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

Draft a center is our priority.

If we can get a healthy Camby from FA, its a different story.

Dont worry about Kobe right now, Joe Johnson's game will suffer, his potential will be hindered dramatically. Keep the young core and add role players.


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## DariusMiles23 (Aug 29, 2003)

Trade Marion. You guys really need to. Your future is with JJ and Amare. Marion last night against my Blazers, took a lot of shots and missed them. Then at the end of the game he takes the 3 and misses it. Honestly I would trade Marion and get good Value for him. 


I am not saying that Marion sucks but has been inconsistent this year. Especcially with the Breakout of JJ, Marion IMO is much more expendable.


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## shyFX325 (Jul 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sovereignz</b>!
> Avery Johnson was in his mid-thirties and on the decline, and the Spurs could have drafted for need in 1997 and drafted one of two point guards who both looked ready to be stars in the NBA at PG in Chauncey Billups and Antonio Daniels.. they took the best player and I think things worked out for them..


you have got to be kidding there... drafting tim duncan is a completely different situation than what we are talking about here. When tim Duncan came out he was unaminously the number 1 pick and probably would have battled AI for the number 1 pick had he decided to come out in 96.

im not saying you dont draft a lebron james if you already have ricky davis at swingman.... im saying that if you have a team like the suns and you are looking at the draft from there possible posistion team needs and what you already have in place has to come into play


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## shyFX325 (Jul 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sovereignz</b>!
> Olowokandi, Lafrentz, Tractor Traylor, Jason Williams, and Larry Hughes were all taken ahead of Pierce because those teams drafted for need. It is a pretty well known rule among elite-drafting NBA teams that you get the best player you can.


the best player in the draft doesnt fall all the way to tenth just b/c teams are drafting for need. Believe it or not some players jsut exceed their draft day expectations. If you look back at that draft none of those picks above pierce (short of traylor who everyone know he wouldnt control his weight) is that much of a stretch.


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## RyGuY43084 (Jul 15, 2002)

*ok new idea!*

First of all... NO WAY IN HATTIES should we draft Iguulda!!!! He is Daris Miles with NO SHOT whatsoever!!!! but here is my views


The suns in Reality are going to get the (6-10) pick with their own pick, the (15-18) with the Knicks and Cavs (if they make it), so that leaves us with this....

Josh SMith- Though I don't think he will be around..... If we can get him, Ive heard nothing but Great things about him!! He addresses TWO needs-

ON Nbadraft.net- under his strengths, he is a great shooter, who loves to back other poeple who are smaller down. We can put him at either SF or SG, depending on our lineup. Besides with him in, I can only DREAM about a line up of
Pg- JJ
Sg- Smith
SF-Marion
Pf- Amare
C- Cambe (Lampe)

He will be awesome, and may slip to us!

Secondly- With our mid first, I agree, maybe someone like BYU's Aruoja (23ppg 11 Reb) or another big man like Perivic (who doesn't look half bad!!!!) or even Robert Swift (HSSr.) who is athletic long and can play!!!!

As far as our last pick- if Telifar is there at 15 or 16, or livingston ya.. mine as well, or what I would do is package this pick with Eisley or White as incentive for the bobcats. 

This way we end up with some great prospects, and we don't mess JJ's rythem. Though SMith is a reach as long as we keep losing, we should be in the sweepstakes to get him!!!


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## MagnusPinus (Aug 27, 2003)

First I think Milos Vujanic has to be the starting PG...(if he comes next year)... i've been watching him all year and I'm always more convinced that he is a great player... I'm sure he will have a Ginobili type of impact.. but he shoots a lot better... 
Joe J is playing like a monster..he has to be the starting Sg..
Marion is the SF... 
Amare the PF
And Okafor the center...(if u can draft him).. I know is a little bit undersized but I believe he can play the Center.. The league is so poor of center...
I hope Pavel won't be taken... from what I've seen on tv(I'm italian and sometimes they give Varese's games) he is only big and tall.. he is not that agile or speed... and has never shown skills...Being big is not enough.. 
Then there is the cap space... I don't know what to do with it... Taking veterans and good back-ups is essential.. The key players are very young and can only grow...


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

*Re: ok new idea!*



> Originally posted by <b>RyGuY43084</b>!
> First of all... NO WAY IN HATTIES should we draft Iguulda!!!! He is Daris Miles with NO SHOT whatsoever!!!! but here is my views


You are an ASU fan, need I say more?


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## Chasemeifucan (Jun 27, 2003)

Iguodala and Hassan Adams are both going to make very good pros. Iguodala will make a much better pro that Diogu. Diogu is way to small to play PF in the NBA and he is certainly not Ben Wallace on the boards.

Suns use first pick to draft the best available talent, except Pavel.

Put it this way, if you're 7-5 and not the number one pick in the NBA draft, your not going to do jack. 

Asking to get Telfair at #16 would be an act of God. If he does declare for the draft, he is a top 10 pick. Write it down.

You don't trade Marion, the best SF in the NBA.

You don't go after Camby. I am still waiting for his second heart attack.

If you go after free agents, you go after Kobe or a big experienced guy like Divac. Divac may be 35, but watch him when he plays. He plays tough D, can hit the open shot, and he is the best passing big man in the game besides Duncan.

If Vujanic is that good, don't draft another PG because he won't come over to the states if he has to compete with two other guys for the starting job.

Warrick is overrated big time.

Okafor would be a nice complement to Amare and Voskhul. I like his shot blocking abilities and his knowledge of the game.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>shyFX325</b>!
> 
> 
> the best player in the draft doesnt fall all the way to tenth just b/c teams are drafting for need. Believe it or not some players jsut exceed their draft day expectations. If you look back at that draft none of those picks above pierce (short of traylor who everyone know he wouldnt control his weight) is that much of a stretch.


CNNSI 1998 draft coverage (Pierce) 



> Amid all that poor-mouthing (of Hughes, Jamison, Olowokandi, etc), nobody identified Kansas small forward Paul Pierce as a player who was slipping. In fact, in four teams' mock drafts that were made available to SI, Pierce was projected to go second in two of them and third in the others.
> 
> Yet Pierce fell mainly because 1) he had told the Raptors, choosing No. 4, and the Kings, picking No. 7, that he didn't want to play for them, and 2) *he didn't fit the needs of the other teams with choices high in the order.*


The Raptors weren't taking Pierce since he told them he didn't want to play in Canada, and they had decided on taking one of the Carolina Kids in the first place.. and the Kings had Anthony Johnson as their PG that year, and they were obviously looking to upgrade their PG rather than their small forward, Corliss Williamson who was just coming off a brilliant season, or their shooting guard, since they just used a lottery pick on Tariq Abdul-Wahad the year before.

So guess what? The best player in that draft DID slip just because teams drafted for need. It was pretty well known at the time that Pierce was the #2 player coming out of college after Bibby just led Arizona to the national championship.. Carter had the upside, and Jamison everyone knew was going to be solid, but Pierce slipped because bad drafting teams draft for need.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>shyFX325</b>!
> 
> im not saying you dont draft a lebron james if you already have ricky davis at swingman.... im saying that if you have a team like the suns and you are looking at the draft from there possible posistion team needs and what you already have in place has to come into play


So if you're the youngest team in the NBA (by far considering the core, other than perhaps LAC), with a ton of capspace, you draft for need (a mediocre center) instead of drafting the best player available and either using the money to sign an established player who fills the need, or waiting till a more stable/sure prospect comes out in the draft?

Sometimes drafting for need works, when you get a nice player who becomes one of your team's cogs.. most of the time it turns around and bites you in the ***.

In the 1995 draft, the Suns took Finley with the 19th pick.. the year before they had taken Wes Person who had a great rookie season.. there were rumors that the Suns were going to deal to move up in the draft and get a big man (I think they were starting Wayman Tisdale at center that year, who was like 6'9" and couldn't rebound).. instead they stood pat and waited until their pick and took the best available player and got Finley.


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## shyFX325 (Jul 28, 2002)

first off... you keep referring to pierce as the best player in the draft. Dont get it twisted - dirk is hands down the better and more valuable player between the two



> 1) he had told the Raptors, choosing No. 4, and the Kings, picking No. 7, that he didn't want to play for them


secondly, there is more to drafting than jsut talent. Coming out Pierce had major questions about his passion. Than having him turn around and tell 20% of the teams that ended up having a chance to draft him to not bother does not look well on his character either.

pierce fell to tenth.... carlos boozer fell to the second round... ****(poop) happens


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## shyFX325 (Jul 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Sovereignz</b>!
> So if you're the youngest team in the NBA (by far considering the core, other than perhaps LAC), with a ton of capspace, you draft for need (a mediocre center) instead of drafting the best player available and either using the money to sign an established player who fills the need, or waiting till a more stable/sure prospect comes out in the draft?


look i think we are both starting to take this a lil personal......

i think there are times you draft for need and other times you draft for best player available. i just view this as being one of the times that the suns need to draft for need (and much like you wont change my opinion i dont think ill change yours.)

Looking at phoenixs roster i think marion is the only sure-fire star (meaning other players, notably amare, could have large potholes in their development if not broughten up right). Amare as mature and ready as he may seem is what 21 (if that, i know he was old for a HSer)?? I think bringing in a player like okafor could derail alot of the head start he got on other young players in the league. 
Joe Johnson is just now showing the promise he had when he was drafted, i think its too soon to bring in competition for him to look over his shoulder at. At the same time i think it would hurt any drafted SG/PF to have to play behind two players that were also so young. 
At PG you have vujanic and barbosa which is quite the coup when you think about it, one team having the two youngest, brightest PGs. 
This leaves us with marion, the one player that i think can handle bringing in a high draft pick at his posistion. But he is also the player that needs a replacement the least. 
This leaves us with the center posistion. Once again i am not saying yuou should walk into the draft saying any center thats out there is ours, but i do think that has to weigh into the decision. When come down to two players... one PG and one center, the pg being a 9.5/10 and the center being a 8.9/10 i think you have to go with the 8.9


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

1.) I don't like Warrick very much as an NBA player. He has no perimeter skills at all, and his NBA position will be the 3. I think he'll be another Eddie Robinson or at best Darius Miles. He is athletic though, and would only consider taking him if Marion is gone.

2.) In the draft, you take the best player available, but don't completely disregard needs. In the second round, when all the major talent is gone, then you take the absolute best player available. I think the Suns need to take a C somewhere in the draft, unless they already get a commitment from Vlade, Okur, etc.

I think the ideal situation for the Suns draft would be for them to get a top 3 pick and take Pavel, then w/ the acquired Knick's pick take Drejer (if available.)


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

I just asked you a question, nothing personal.

Telling teams not to draft him didn't seem to have a real bad effect on Francis' stock. Questions about passion? Gary St. Jean said it was BS, and I think it was too.. even so, you are still ignoring that the MAJOR reason Pierce fell so far was because of the teams who drafted in front of Boston were drafting for need. 

I think the Suns have a good chance of drafting a center, *if* they think he's good. They're not going to draft a center just because they need one.. there are other means of filling that kind of a void, especially considering that the Suns have a significant amount of cap space. If Phoenix gets the fifth pick, and Pavel goes 3-4, I think it would be a travesty if they took a guy like Kosta or Ha instead of a guy like Deng or Josh Smith because they were drafting for need.

Whether they draft for need or not is going to depend on where they're drafting at as much as anything, since the only center who looks like he might be sure thing (by sure thing I mean a mediocre center) is Araujo, and we're going to have two or three first round picks to get him.. How early would he go? Mid first round at the earliest, I think. If he was available with our second pick, he'd be perfect.. but don't draft a center with a high pick just because it's a position you need to improve on..


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## DariusMiles23 (Aug 29, 2003)

Marion is not the best SF in the Nba, you got Vince/Kirilenko/Peja

I think it would go from that list:

Peja
Vince
Kirilenko
Marion

He has a bad form(even though it goes in) and he has been very inconsistent this year.


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## RyGuY43084 (Jul 15, 2002)

That is the STUPIDEST thing I have heard in a LONG TIME!!!

SO your telling me that Kirilenko is better than Shawn Marion, 

WOW... I am impressed, I think peja, Vince, and Marion are like 
1, MArion
1A. Peja
1B Vince

5th- Andre "freckin" Kirilenko, [strike]your retarded![/strike]

and Big Amare- I will be the first to admit that I am biased with Iguldula, but I have read things, and if we draft him with our first pick, I would say that would be a mistake. Maybe mid-round, if the suns like him, I have come to respect and trust the Suns scouts more than my own knowledge!

No insults, thanks.


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## Ezmo (May 11, 2003)

i'd like to see robert swift on phx :yes:


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## MentalPowerHouse (Oct 9, 2003)

Vince is a SG.


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