# Game 24: Denver Nuggets @ New Jersey Nets



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

*@*







*Team Records*​
*Denver Nuggets* 12-11 *@* *New Jersey Nets* 9-12

*Time:* 7:30 PM ET Friday, December 16, 2005
*TV:* Altitude, YES Network
*Location:* Continental Airlines Arena, New Jersey

*Denver Nuggets*






































*Projected Denver Nuggets Starting Lineup*
*PG* - 24 Andre Miller 6-2 205 3/19/76 6 Utah 
*SG* - 7 Greg Buckner 6-4 205 9/16/76 6 Clemson 
*SF* - 15 Carmelo Anthony 6-8 230 5/29/84 2 Syracuse 
*PF* - 6 Kenyon Martin 6-9 240 12/30/77 5 Cincinnati 
*C* - 23 Marcus Camby 6-11 230 3/22/74 9 Massachusetts

*Denver Nuggets Reserves*
11 Earl Boykins PG 5-5 133 6/2/76 7 Eastern Michigan 
56 Francisco Elson C 7-0 235 2/28/76 2 California 
21 Eduardo Najera F 6-8 220 7/11/76 5 Oklahoma 
3 DerMarr Johnson GF 6-9 201 5/5/80 5 Cincinnati 
43 Linas Kleiza F 6-8 245 1/3/85 R Missouri 
8 Earl Watson PG 6-1 195 6/12/79 4 UCLA

*Denver Nuggets Players Stats:*










*Denver Nuggets Head Coach:*








*George Karl*

*Out of game due to Injuries:*
C Marcus Camby (right pinkie) *questionable*
G Earl Boykins (left hamstring) *questionable* 
Nene Hilario 
Bryon Russell

*New Jersey Nets*






































*Projected New Jersey Nets Starting Lineup*​*PG* - 5 Jason Kidd 6-4 210 3/23/73 11 California 
*SG* - 15 Vince Carter 6-6 220 1/26/77 7 North Carolina 
*SF* - 24 Richard Jefferson 6-7 225 6/21/80 4 Arizona 
*PF* - 35 Jason Collins 7-0 255 12/2/78 4 Stanford 
*C* - 12 Nenad Krstic 7-0 240 7/25/83 1 None

*New Jersey Nets Reserves*
44 Marc Jackson FC 6-10 253 1/16/75 5 Temple 
0 Jeff McInnis G 6-4 179 10/22/74 9 North Carolina 
30 Clifford Robinson FC 6-10 240 12/16/66 16 Connecticut 
11 Jacque Vaughn PG 6-1 190 2/11/75 8 Kansas 
43 Linton Johnson SF 6-8 225 6/13/80 2 Tulane

*New Jersey Nets Players Stats:*










*New Jersey Nets Head Coach:*








*Lawrence Frank*

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Nets fans and Nuggets fans get in! :banana: 

Nuggets fans are definitely a bit wiped out after the disappointing loss against the Cavs on TNT last night. However I think we are playing around .500 ball this season. So the Nuggets by history should be due for another win. As a Nuggets fan I sure hope so. A win would help take away the sting of our loss last night. However the Nets have been struggling so I'm sure they are going to want to come out and get a win. These two teams seem pretty even all around. I'm excpecting a good game, and excited to see Jason Kidd and Andre Miller match up.

Let's go Nuggets! :clap: :biggrin:


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

The Nets have lost 3 straight games. Even dropping one to the woeful Bobcats. However if memory serves me correctly the Nets beat us in Denver. Remember the game Melo went down with an injury in the first few minutes? That was against the Nets. They beat us in the Pepsi Center. We need to keep the Nets down. Unlike the Cavs game or else we will lose to another team to continue or losing streak.

Kenyon Martin should be excited to play his former team the Nets tonight. I hope he has the pep in his step he did against the Cavs. The only resonable bright spot that night for the Nuggets.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Anybody catching this game tonight?

I'm not going to get to see this one.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

From the box score at half time it looks as if Carter is having a good game.

Who ever watches the game tonight tell us how Carter looked over all.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

First half played even by both teams. Saw this in the box score. Mirrior each other in 1st/2nd quarter. Hope the Nuggets can continue the good play.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Another disappointing loss. That makes two in a row now. I wonder what Karl and the Nuggets plan is going to be to right the ship.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

*Box Score*


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Wow Miller had another good game. This guy is probably playing the best on a consistent level for the Nuggets. Who watched this game ? 

Melos FGA/FGM look terrible. Was his jump shot off all game ?


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## Kuskid (Aug 18, 2004)

- Melo started off 1 for 12 (5 for 11 after that). At one point in the 4th quarter, he scored 10 straight for the Nugs. He sucked something awful early, fadeaway jumpers, the works. I don't know where he gets the idea that he can score 1 on 1 off the dribble, 18 feet from the hoop. If he's gonna go 1 on 1, he needs to make an effort to get to the front of the rim. That's where he plays his best. But he came on when we needed him at the end of regulation. The ability to step it up when his team needed him even though he'd been playing horribly tells me something about him I wasn't necessarily sure about before.

- I didn't see a single decent defensive rotation from _anyone_ in a blue jersey for those 5 big minutes after regulation. Actual play in overtime: Kidd brings it down, passes the rock to VC on the wing, VC makes an entry pass to Krystic in the high post, Dre collapses on Krystic 18 feet from the hoop, he passes back to a wide open Kidd for a 3. How the hell does that happen? Two passes for a wide open, straightaway 3 pointer. Kidd never even moved. Makes a pass, stands still, 4-5 seconds later he has a wide open jumper. I could grab 4 random guys off the street, give me 5 minutes to explain defensive rotation to them, and we could put together a better defensive position than that. That one in particular just made me sick. We gave up 21 points in OT, that's the equivalent of a *50 point quarter.* That's just embarassing.

- We made Scott Padgett look like an all-star tonight. 15 and 6 in 20 minutes, 5 for 5 on the long ball. No one even bothered getting a hand up, they'd watch him catch it out there, and just kind of turn around and hope there's a rebound coming soon. 

- RJ played better than the box score showed. Nothing easy for Melo, and not a lot of mistakes.

- Dermarr has stretches where he just doesn't look comfortable on the court. Someone else pointed this out a few days ago, but I'm not sure if he realizes that he belongs.

- Hey Eddy, pay attention to the game clock! He caught the ball in the lane, 5 feet from the basket, with I believe about 1.5 seconds remaining in regulation. A nice little bank shot, floater, just about anything would have done nicely. Instead, he tried dunking it, and it went in probably about a half second after the buzzer sounded. played a good game besides that, but that drove me nuts.

- I'm just a bit frustrated right now. Sorry if I seem overly critical, but there was a whole lot to criticize in this one.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Kuskid said:


> - Melo started off 1 for 12 (5 for 11 after that). At one point in the 4th quarter, he scored 10 straight for the Nugs. He sucked something awful early, fadeaway jumpers, the works. I don't know where he gets the idea that he can score 1 on 1 off the dribble, 18 feet from the hoop. If he's gonna go 1 on 1, he needs to make an effort to get to the front of the rim. That's where he plays his best. But he came on when we needed him at the end of regulation. The ability to step it up when his team needed him even though he'd been playing horribly tells me something about him I wasn't necessarily sure about before.
> 
> - I didn't see a single decent defensive rotation from _anyone_ in a blue jersey for those 5 big minutes after regulation. Actual play in overtime: Kidd brings it down, passes the rock to VC on the wing, VC makes an entry pass to Krystic in the high post, Dre collapses on Krystic 18 feet from the hoop, he passes back to a wide open Kidd for a 3. How the hell does that happen? Two passes for a wide open, straightaway 3 pointer. Kidd never even moved. Makes a pass, stands still, 4-5 seconds later he has a wide open jumper. I could grab 4 random guys off the street, give me 5 minutes to explain defensive rotation to them, and we could put together a better defensive position than that. That one in particular just made me sick. We gave up 21 points in OT, that's the equivalent of a *50 point quarter.* That's just embarassing.
> 
> ...


Great post game follow up. I will respond to some in a bit. Going to watch sports center right now.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

I have to ask my normal questions :bsmile:

What types of shots was Kenyon taking to go 7/17? Kenyon's Assists are increasing. Is this a product of better offensive movement?

Who was guarding Padgett went he was shooting those 3's?


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Back saw the highlights of the Nets/Pistons game on sports center. Showed the dunk you wrote about with Najera. Seems to me a complete lapse of the time in the game. Miller set him up with a pretty dish though. It's a shame the Nuggets didnt win the game on that play.

You mentioned Melo got hot in the 4th quarter. Seems Melos bad shooting followed him to New Jersey from the Cleveland game. However we need Melo to play more consistent not just game to game, but play all 4 quarters more consistent. Once he does that there is no stopping him. He has to learn like all greats do when their jump shot is off. Find other ways to help the team win and drive to the basket. Melo falls in love to much with his jumper. 

How did Miller look to you kuskid? from his box score it looks like he made almost half his shots, got 4 rebounds, and dished out a whole bunch of assists. Did he have trouble guarding Jason Kidd ?


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## Kuskid (Aug 18, 2004)

cpawfan said:


> I have to ask my normal questions :bsmile:
> 
> What types of shots was Kenyon taking to go 7/17? Kenyon's Assists are increasing. Is this a product of better offensive movement?
> 
> Who was guarding Padgett went he was shooting those 3's?


Jumpers. Too many freaking jumpers. I know he's still sore, but it seemed like half his shots were from 18-19 feet. In his defense, he got the ball more than once, 15-20 feet from the basket, with less than 5 seconds on the shot clock. EDIT: Here's a shot chart from the game that I just found. You can select individual players, and also when they were taken.

Most of his assists came from solid ball movement out of the high post. I know at least 2 of Watson's 3's came from this. He had a nice dish to a cutting Buckner in the first, too, also out of the high post area.

To be honest, I didn't really notice who was on Padgett. The two lineups used in the 4th quarter were Miller, Watson, Dermarr, Elson, and Najera; then Miller, Watson, Melo, Kenyon, and Najera. I know Eddy spent some time on him, I just don't know who was on him during that 12 point 4th quarter.

There's a video of the 3 I was talking about that automatically plays over on the side when you go here. Just wait through the dumb commercial, and watch close. You can also see Kenyon's "so that's why my coaches always told me not to save it under the other team's basket" save, which came in OT.

Dre played great on the offensive end, but unfortunately nobody played good perimeter defense tonight. The number of wide open jumpers just amazed me. 6 of Kidd's assists were 3 pointers, another 6 were layups/dunks. That hurt. He scored 15, but that's another 30 from assists.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

This was one of those really, really tough losses to take. We were down 22-4 early and came back to actually control the game for awhile. Bad decisions and mental mistakes pretty much cost us the game. Atlanta is playing good right now so we better regroup. 

- Kenyon actually played pretty well. He did decent on the boards and brought some energy. Most of his shots came from midrange. He hit them early, but it wouldn't fall later on. He drove to the paint more often than he has, so that was encouraging. His defense was decent at times, coming up with a couple nice blocks, but I still question his weakside effort. Overall, he was one of our better players last night. An encouraging effort. 

- Elson's gotta go. The guy is completely brain dead. He did have some real nice blocks, but he's just not getting it done. Anyone who saw the game can attest to that. 

- Najera battled all night. He helped out on the boards a lot and hustled. I wish he would've been more aware at the end of regulation, though. 

- Carmelo had a horrible game, because he absolutely forced everything. He started off the game with three jumpers, I believe, and it was all downhill from there. They made it a point to double team him every possession, and he didn't handle it well. He also had a subpar effort on defense. This could end up being a step back for him, but we'll see how he handles the Atlanta game. 

- DerMarr, I thought was great. He was a lot more aggressive and hit some open shots. He helped the team a lot off the bench. 

- Buckner played well early, but got hurt in the first and was out for the rest of the game. 

- Earl Watson was incredible in the first half. He hit open shots, played great defense, and really moved the ball well. I think he's the reason we even got back into the game. I know his 10 three attempts are a lot, but I'd say 8 of those were quality attempts. Having someone who can hit the three is nice. We'll see if he's consistent. I would really like to see Karl give Watson 25 minutes a night. He does have a tendency to make stupid mistakes at times, but I really like what he brings to the team. Honestly, having Boykins out has been a pleasure. I'd much rather have Watson out there. 

- Andre Miller, in my opinion, had one of those games where he puts up the stats but doesn't do that well. Main reason? Too much damn ball-handling. He was Boykins-esque last night, constantly bouncing the ball for 10-15 seconds and not doing anything with it. When Watson was running the point, the movement in the offense was great. When Miller came in, he really bogged everything down, in the same way Boykins does a lot of the time. I'm really getting tired of watching Miller play. He just doesn't wanna run the offense the right way. 

This team is mediocre right now. There isn't a better way to describe them. The record reflects their play. When you have to struggle every single night to get a win, there's a problem. The second half of last season we were a fine tuned machine. Twenty games into the season this year, and we're struggling to put everything together. What's the remedy? I don't know, but I would like to see a few things: 

1. Commitment to a style of offense: If we're a running team, which we were built to be, let's get serious about it. Serious to the extent Phoenix was last season. That means Andre forcing the tempo all the time, and positions 2-5 running along with him. If we don't want to be a running team, let's cut the high school level half court play. That means setting plays up early in the offense, cutting people through the lane, and moving the ball quickly and effectively. Either way, it's time to decide what we are. 

2. Better rotations: Coach Karl is good, but I question his rotations sometimes. 20 plus games into the season, he should have a better idea of what he's trying to achieve with his lineup every night. He has a tendency to pull certain players out when they're contributing and leave others in when they are playing poorly. 

3. Play better defense: We're giving up 96 a night. That number should be in the low 90s. When you're getting stops and creating turnovers, it makes offense that much easier.


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

cpawfan said:


> I have to ask my normal questions :bsmile:
> 
> What types of shots was Kenyon taking to go 7/17? Kenyon's Assists are increasing. Is this a product of better offensive movement?
> 
> Who was guarding Padgett went he was shooting those 3's?


Kenyon shot a lot from midrange, but drove a little more to the basket. 

His assists were a product of better offensive movement, including an excellent half-court bounce pass to Watson for a layup. When Kenyon gets at the top of the paint and people get him the ball, he does a nice job passing, as long as there's movement. 

As for Padgett, Carmelo was guarding him on one of those, when we were in a zone. They were swinging the ball around and Carmelo decided to run at Kidd instead of guard Padgett, and we paid. DerMarr also lost track of Padgett on one of those.


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## Kuskid (Aug 18, 2004)

For people who watched the game: I still don't think Andre played too bad, but I would be 100% behind trading him if Watson performed to that level every night, and we still had Boykins. What do you guys think?


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Rodney I think the Nuggets are serious about running their offense in a fast break mode. The Nuggets are in front of the Phoenix Suns who you meassure the Nuggets by in Fast break points. Heck the Nuggets are the number one team in the league in fast break offense.

The difference between the Nuggets isn't their lack of ability to run the offense right its the lack of shooters on the Nuggets team. Something that the Suns haven't had to deal with. Guys Like House, Marion, Nash, Bell, Jones, etc can all get it done from long range. The season before that Nash had guys like Joe Johnson and Q Rich to get it done. I don't see Miller over dribbling I see him looking to drive on the defense. The exact same thing Nash does. Nobody says Nash over dribbles in a half-court set. because when he does dribble a lot to penetrate he dishs off the rock just like Miller, but he has guys that can hit the jump shot. Again if Miller had shooters he would look as good as Nash out there.

On Elson..I think he is a good back up center. He isn't a starter, but he has been forced to start because of the injury situation in Denver. However you don't give him any credit when the guy had 5 blocked shots ?


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## RoddneyThaRippa (Jun 28, 2003)

> Rodney I think the Nuggets are serious about running their offense in a fast break mode. The Nuggets are in front of the Phoenix Suns who you meassure the Nuggets by in Fast break points. Heck the Nuggets are the number one team in the league in fast break offense.


I was talking about last year's Phoenix Suns. This year, they've obviously changed the composition of their roster. 

And being number one in fastbreak points doesn't mean a whole lot with the game the way it is now. The pace of the league has slowed way down since the 80s and 90s. Last year, Phoenix was a true fastbreaking team. The second half of last year the Nuggets were a true fastbreaking team. That's not happening this year and our halfcourt offense is hard to watch. 



> The difference between the Nuggets isn't their lack of ability to run the offense right its the lack of shooters on the Nuggets team. Something that the Suns haven't had to deal with. Guys Like House, Marion, Nash, Bell, Jones, etc can all get it done from long range. The season before that Nash had guys like Joe Johnson and Q Rich to get it done.


You don't have to have great personell to run a good offense. The Nuggets don't even call plays on a consistent basis. They don't get the ball to the right person at the right time. A lot of the time, you just see the point guard dribble the ball around for ten seconds, sometimes fifteen, and then pass off. There's no movement. The Suns have good guys on the court, but they also execute a system. Although I do agree with you that we do need shooters. But a lack of shooters doesn't explain not executing the offense. 



> I don't see Miller over dribbling I see him looking to drive on the defense. The exact same thing Nash does. Nobody says Nash over dribbles in a half-court set. because when he does dribble a lot to penetrate he dishs off the rock just like Miller, but he has guys that can hit the jump shot. Again if Miller had shooters he would look as good as Nash out there.


Nash doesn't over dribble in the half court because he dribbles with a purpose. Andre is on some stupid ****, just bouncing the ball around. Nash knows what he's doing. A lot of the time Nash penetrates, he'll dish off. You don't see that a whole lot with Andre. Andre is on some battering ram **** when he drives. Point guards aren't supposed to do that. Point guards are supposed to set up other players. You can say whatever you want about Andre's assist numbers, but he just doesn't play like a point guard. 

And you can't compare Nash to Andre. They're aren't even on the same level. Nash is about ten times better than Andre. Nash makes his team better, Andre doesn't. 



> On Elson..I think he is a good back up center. He isn't a starter, but he has been forced to start because of the injury situation in Denver. However you don't give him any credit when the guy had 5 blocked shots ?


I already said that he had some nice blocks, but that didn't make up for his horrible play. He didn't rebound, didn't defend well, and just did the same stupid **** he does each and every night.


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