# Mavs Land Dampier



## Anima

A Dallas radio station is reporting that the Mavs will trade Laettner & Najera for Dampier & Eschmeyer. They said the trade will be announced in the next couple days and then be completed on the 24th.


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## Blazer Freak

I was just gonna say it hasn't been 60 days, but it has. . Damn how does Mark Cuban do it? Good deal for both teams. DAL takes on Eschmeyer's contract from hell, and they get Najera who is a nice hustle player, a replacement for Cardinal? And they get Laetner who is a decent big man. Of course they weren't gonna keep Dampier so good deal for both teams.

BFreak.


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## LionOfJudah

> Room For Erick?
> 'Cats Could Help Mavs Get Dampier
> 
> By David Lord -- DallasBasketball.com
> A sign-and-trade for Erick Dampier could happen any day now, and there is circumstantial evidence that the Mavs could be in the mix.
> On Monday, Charlotte dealt center Pedrag Drobnjak to Atlanta for a draft pick, opening up cap room for the Bobcats and reducing cap room for Atlanta. Charlotte now has about $7.5M remaining cap room, out of the $29.25M they are allotted, and that amount could make them a major factor as the 3rd team in a 3-way sign-and-trade involving Dampier.
> By acquiring Drobnjak, Atlanta seemed to signal that they are out of the running for Dampier, since their cap room for 2004-05 is now around $6.75M. That would be less than the $7.5M or more apparently needed for the reported $40-50M offer that they had been offering the Golden State center.
> Rumors that Dallas was at the center of 3-way trade talks for center Erick Dampier from Golden State, with Charlotte the other team involved, first surfaced late last week in an interview with SLAM's Lang Whitaker on Mike Fisher's radio show (990am in Dallas, www.990mainstreet.com online).
> These rumors fit what we have been saying all along: Golden State is only interested in sign-and-trades that essentially leave their cap room and payroll intact, while sending them something of value like cash or a draft pick or a young unproven player with a cheap short contract (like Stefansson).
> Dampier is expected to command a contract starting in the $7-8M a year range. For a team like the Mavs who are over the cap, to accomplish such a feat under the NBA's trade rules, they would have to send away salary that matches Dampier's within 15%, in order to acquire him via trade. Since GS does not want any salary, the solution is to find a way to send away some salary elsewhere in a 3-way transaction, by using a 3rd team with enough cap room and a willingness to take the players Dallas is required to send away.
> We first wondered if Golden State might be interested in moving Evan Eschmeyer as part of such a sign-and-trade deal, and then accept even more salary back. Eschmeyer is injured, and is mediocre when healthy. But taking Eschmeyer, who still has 3 more years on his contract, seems to be too high a price for anyone.
> By trading Drobnjak, Charlotte is now far enough under the cap that they could completely absorb enough contracts from Dallas to make the deal happen. In addition, Charlotte has a whole roster full of cheap unproven players and may be willing to send one or more to GS in such a transaction, as part of the compensation to GS for making the deal.
> There is an interesting “however’’ here: While the move for Drobnjak appears to close the door on Atlanta's pursuit of Dampier, it does leave them enough room to compete with Charlotte to provide 3rd-team cap room in a Dampier sign-and-trade, if they so desired. (While Dampier has expressed apprehension at joining a rebuilding team like Atlanta, prospective teammate Antoine Walker is promising to try to recruit him to the Hawks. And Dampier, a native of Mississippi, already has a home in Atlanta).
> Also note that since both of those teams have the needed cap room in its entirety to be that 3rd team, other teams such as Memphis, New York, and Indianapolis now can attempt to utilize the same method with one of those two teams and get Dampier.
> Dallas could offer players such as Christian Laettner, who is in the final year of his contract and who was a star at Duke, and Jerry Stackhouse, who starred at North Carolina and has been an all-star in the past. Both might be desirable for a Charlotte team that could use a proven NBA talent and regional star to draw fans, or for a Hawks team needing a short-term infusion of talent. Charlotte may have passed up both of those players in the expansion draft before knowing what cap room they may have left, and Dallas may offer other compensation to make those players even more desirable.





> It should be noted that August 23rd in on the horizon, and after that date Laettner and/or Stackhouse can be traded in a multi-player deal. It has long been speculated that one or both of those players might be destined for a trade at such a date, since neither player has yet to come to Dallas or to be introduced here in a press conference since their acquisition on June 24 during the NBA draft. NBA rules require the Mavs to keep each player for 60 days before trading them elsewhere if they are traded away with other players.


Link


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## Pan Mengtu

If true, this is a good deal for the Mavs. Although I like Najera, they mostly needed a center who doesn't make the team worse. Dampier can be that guy. Glad to see that Cuban is looking for the Mavs weaknesses instead of just looking to add more shooters, for once.

Next: get rid of Stackhouse. Trade him for a piece of bubble gum, anything.


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## Pan Mengtu

Hopefully they didn't give Dampier a long contract, though.


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## BG7

good trade for mavs


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## rebelsun

Mullin is insane.


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## Hibachi!

Watching it on ESPN News right now... They got him in a sign and trade, not sure on the details, I know it involved Eduardo Najera and some draft picks but not sure on everything


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## rebelsun

If this is true, Dallas has a very complete lineup now:

Terry/Harris/Johnson
Finley/Stack/Marquis/Stefansson
Howard/Tariq
Dirk/Henderson
*Dampier/Booth/Bradley/Ilunga-Mbenga/Pavel/Eschmeyer*

Think they need more Cs though.


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## Drewbs

HOORAY! 


but who did they have to give up?


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## MJG

Another thread from earlier today said a base of Laettner/Najera for Dampier/Eschmeyer was likely, as well as Charlotte possibly getting involved as a third team.

EDIT: Actually, since that thread is also in this forum, I just merged the two.


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## RP McMurphy

This is a good trade for the Warriors, especially if they get some draft picks. In the long run, they're basically replacing Eschmeyer with Najera, and while they're both overpaid, at least Najera can play basketball.

It's too early to tell whether this is a good trade for the Mavs. I doubt it, because Dampier seems like just the type of guy to stop trying once he gets his big contract. But there's a chance that Dampier will be the center Dallas has been seeking for years.


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## CMC

W's get Laettner(expiring contract), Najera, and 2 first round picks for Dampier, Eschmeyer, and Dan Dickau.

Good trade for both teams. Dallas is now the favorite in the West imo.


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## RP McMurphy

> Originally posted by <b>CMC</b>!
> Dallas is now the favorite in the West imo.


:no:


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## Pan Mengtu

> Think they need more Cs though.


Honestly though, they do.


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## WXHOOPS

How is this a good trade for GS, other than ridding themselves of Evan Eschmyer ? Laettner is garbage and will only hurt Troy Murphy's development. Najera is a good role player, but that is it. This was all they could get for Dampier ? Sounds like someone didn't try very hard to shop him. Oh yeah, Chris Mullin is at the helm. They should have just gave him away...


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## Minstrel

> Originally posted by <b>CMC</b>!
> 
> Good trade for both teams. Dallas is now the favorite in the West imo.


Dallas was more than a Dampier away from being as good as Sacramento and Memphis, let alone San Antonio and Minnesota.


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## rock747

this dissapoints me i wanted him to go to the Pacers. They need another big guy.


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## CMC

> Originally posted by <b>WXHOOPS</b>!
> How is this a good trade for GS, other than ridding themselves of Evan Eschmyer ? Laettner is garbage and will only hurt Troy Murphy's development. Najera is a good role player, but that is it. This was all they could get for Dampier ? Sounds like someone didn't try very hard to shop him. Oh yeah, Chris Mullin is at the helm. They should have just gave him away...


They get 2 first rounders. One is Dallas' which will suck, but the other is supposedly the Sixers' conditional pick which could be pretty good.

Either way they get 2 picks and an expiring contract to go with their rebuilding team, for a guy who they didn't have a chance at keeping.


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## CrossOver

> Originally posted by <b>WXHOOPS</b>!
> How is this a good trade for GS, other than ridding themselves of Evan Eschmyer ? Laettner is garbage and will only hurt Troy Murphy's development. Najera is a good role player, but that is it. This was all they could get for Dampier ? Sounds like someone didn't try very hard to shop him. Oh yeah, Chris Mullin is at the helm. They should have just gave him away...


1. Laettner comes off the books after the year. 
2. Najera is an upgrade over Evan Eschemeyer.
3. 2 First round picks. 
4. Dampier could've signed with the Hawks for nothing in return.
5. I still think Mullin is in over his head as a GM, but, this was as good as it was going to realistically get.


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## CMC

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> Dallas was more than a Dampier away from being as good as Sacramento and Memphis, let alone San Antonio and Minnesota.


Word, and for some reason I forgot they traded Nash...

My fault.


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## Ron Mexico

Dampier's best years were in contract years so I'm skeptical maybe he will play harder since he is on a winning team now


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## CrossOver

Damn you guys reply fast! :grinning:


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## MemphisX

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> Dallas was more than a Dampier away from being as good as Sacramento and Memphis, let alone San Antonio and Minnesota.


I think this makes them better than Memphis and at least as good as Sacremento.


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## rock747

mavs will be good but, spurs are still top contender in my opinion, for the west


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## HKF

Dallas the favorite now? :laugh: :laugh: 

No... but what Dallas did was put themselves into the playoffs and capable of challenging the Spurs once again for the division.

I like this move for Dallas for one reason only and that is the type of team they will put around Dampier. They will spread the floor and allow him to operate all alone in the paint. If nothing else, he should have the opportunity, if he runs the floor to get dunks and layups. He has always complained about people taking up his space well, with Dirk as the 4 man, he won't have that problem.

Although the rotation looks shakey as hell. I can't imagine Stefansson or Avery Johnson on the 15 man roster. Johnson will have to be an Asst. coach. 

PG - Jason Terry/Devin Harris
SG - Marquis Daniels/Jerry Stackhouse (cancer alert)
SF - Michael Finley/Josh Howard
PF - Dirk Nowitzki/Alan Henderson
C - Erick Dampier/Calvin Booth/Shawn Bradley

IR: Tarik Abdul-Wahad, Pavel Podkozlin, Evan Eschmeyer

This team will still be one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA, if not the worse. However, with all these big men, they just might be able to throw a million fouls at Duncan, Webber, KG and the like on the way to competing for a title. Gotta give Cuban some credit here.

Most important part of this team now, is chemistry and defense. If they can get any defense out of Dampier, Booth, Harris, Henderson and Howard off the bench. They could be a pretty dangerous team come playoff time.


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## HKF

Wow, wow wow. What is Golden State doing? I know they are helping their future immensely, but they just made the playoff race that much more crazier IMO.

I can honestly tell you, I don't know who will make the playoffs next year in the Western Conf. I guarantee you, if Duncan gets hurt (from fatigue), the Spurs miss the playoffs. It's too crazy right now, to think you start the season off 5-10 and can recover, because by the end of the year, how you started is going to come back and bite you on the butt.

As of today, I have had to revise my Western Conference Predictions (which I will continue to do up until the season begins).

1. San Antonio (Southwest)
2. Sacramento (Pacific)
3. Minnesota (Northwest)
4. Dallas 
5. LA Lakers
6. Houston
7. Denver
8. Utah
-------------------------------
9. Memphis
9. Phoenix
11. Portland
12. New Orleans
13. Golden State
14. Seattle
15. LA Clippers

Pretty strange, I don't even think the Clippers are that bad, nor the Sonics, but I think their records will reflect otherwise. The West is pretty damn scary. I can't believe I don't have Memphis in the playoffs.


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## Minstrel

> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> 
> 
> I think this makes them better than Memphis and at least as good as Sacremento.


I think Memphis gets slept on a lot. They were a legitimately very good team last season and I think they'll continue to improve.

Dallas gained at center with Dampier, from last season, but dropped off a *lot* at point guard, going from Steve Nash, a top-four point guard last season, to Jason Terry, a top-15 point guard perhaps.

They also lost a lot on the bench, losing Jamison and Walker. Stackhouse and Walker may end up a wash, but Jamison was one of the very best sixth men in the game.

I'd be surprised if Dallas finished ahead of San Antonio, Minnesota, Sacramento or Memphis. Or even Denver, who didn't improve as much as people think by adding Kenyon Martin as he represents only small marginal value over Nene, but will still improve somewhat.


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## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Dallas the favorite now? :laugh: :laugh:
> 
> No... but what Dallas did was put themselves into the playoffs and capable of challenging the Spurs once again for the division.
> 
> I like this move for Dallas for one reason only and that is the type of team they will put around Dampier. They will spread the floor and allow him to operate all alone in the paint. If nothing else, he should have the opportunity, if he runs the floor to get dunks and layups. He has always complained about people taking up his space well, with Dirk as the 4 man, he won't have that problem.
> 
> Although the rotation looks shakey as hell. I can't imagine Stefansson or Avery Johnson on the 15 man roster. Johnson will have to be an Asst. coach.
> 
> PG - Jason Terry/Devin Harris
> SG - Marquis Daniels/Jerry Stackhouse (cancer alert)
> SF - Michael Finley/Josh Howard
> PF - Dirk Nowitzki/Alan Henderson
> C - Erick Dampier/Calvin Booth/Shawn Bradley
> 
> IR: Tarik Abdul-Wahad, Pavel Podkozlin, Evan Eschmeyer
> 
> This team will still be one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA, if not the worse. However, with all these big men, they just might be able to throw a million fouls at Duncan, Webber, KG and the like on the way to competing for a title. Gotta give Cuban some credit here.


hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

terry and daniels are two of the biggest ballhwaks in the league. Dampier clogs the lane. Dirk will saw 2 a game with booth and bradley swatting 2 more off the bench. Plus the roster you have is wrong

Pg: Terry/harris
sg: Daniels/Stack
sf: Fin/Howard
pf: Dirk/D.J
C: Dampier/Booth/Bradley

nash was weak as heck on "D" the mavs will be one of the top rebounding teams in the league. No more driving in the lane and terry, daniels, fin, howard, and dirk will give the mavs around 12 steals a game

Dirk, D.j, Dampier, Booth and Bradley will give the mavs around 11 blocks a game

This team is athletic. quick. big in the middle and has good perimeter and interior defenders now. But of course "cuban tinkers too much"

good riddance nash. Shoulda stayed put and you would have gotten a ship in dallas. :yes:


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## Amareca

So Dallas lets Nash go to trade for a guy who is much less valueable and makes almost the same? 6yrs/50M$ compared to 6yrs/60M$ with a partial buyout for the 6th year.

And the Suns won't be 10th. They will be 3rd or 5th-8th. On paper they have clearly more talent than either the Kings or Lakers.


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## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!
> 
> 
> I think Memphis gets slept on a lot. They were a legitimately very good team last season and I think they'll continue to improve.
> 
> Dallas gained at center with Dampier, from last season, but dropped off a *lot* at point guard, going from Steve Nash, a top-four point guard last season, to Jason Terry, a top-15 point guard perhaps.
> 
> They also lost a lot on the bench, losing Jamison and Walker. Stackhouse and Walker may end up a wash, but Jamison was one of the very best sixth men in the game.
> 
> I'd be surprised if Dallas finished ahead of San Antonio, Minnesota, Sacramento or Memphis. Or even Denver, who didn't improve as much as people think by adding Kenyon Martin as he represents only small marginal value over Nene, but will still improve somewhat.


FUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNY

THE MAVS GET a big man and you act like they don't have terry, harris and daniels at the point. now thier point guard position is shaky. f irst they didn't have a center. They get one and now you got another excuse why they aint contenders. 

LOL Harris, howard and stack are on the bench man. 

Walker started for the mavs. So why are you saying he was on the bench? LOL The mavs also got dan dickau in the trade. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


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## Pan Mengtu

New Orleans are really getting slept on too.


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## Minstrel

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> As of today, I have had to revise my Western Conference Predictions (which I will continue to do up until the season begins).
> 
> 1. San Antonio (Southwest)
> 2. Sacramento (Pacific)
> 3. Minnesota (Northwest)
> 4. Dallas
> 5. LA Lakers
> 6. Houston
> 7. Denver
> 8. Utah
> -------------------------------
> 9. Memphis
> 9. Phoenix
> 11. Portland
> 12. New Orleans
> 13. Golden State
> 14. Seattle
> 15. LA Clippers


My to-the-second rankings:

3. Minnesota (Northwest)
1. San Antonio (Southwest)
2. Sacramento (Pacific)
4. Memphis 
5. Houston
6. Dallas
7. Denver
8. Utah
-------------------------------
9. Phoenix
10. Los Angeles
11. Portland
12. New Orleans
13. Golden State
14. Seattle
15. LA Clippers

The only real change from previous 2004-05 Western power rankings of mine is that I moved Dallas past Denver. While I wouldn't be surprised if Dallas finished behind Denver, I currently give Dallas the edge.

And I agree, the West is crazy. I actually think the Suns are very talented...I simply see them squeezed out of the playoffs due to a numbers game...only eight teams can make it and there are ten to eleven better-than-decent teams.

I also think the Lakers and Portland are going to be pretty good teams.


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## Pan Mengtu

> Walker started for the mavs. So why are you saying he was on the bench? LOL The mavs also got dan dickau in the trade. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Dan Dickau sucks and will be lucky to still be in the NBA by the end of next season.


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## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> So Dallas lets Nash go to trade for a guy who is much less valueable and makes almost the same? 6yrs/50M$ compared to 6yrs/60M$ with a partial buyout for the 6th year.


yep cause you can easily find a pg to run a team. Hence them having 

Harris, Terry and Dickau (also apart of the dampier deal)

to run the show


But big men are harder to come by. You're just mad cause ya suns wanted dampier. Enjoy nash. it's gonna be fun watching the mavs sweep em during the reg season agai

P.S




Amare is mad overrated. LOL


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## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> Dan Dickau sucks and will be lucky to still be in the NBA by the end of next season.


funny peeps said the same thing when the mavs acquired nash from phoenix.............:yes: 

[email protected] mavs being a sixth seed. That's just funny to me


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## Pan Mengtu

> funny peeps said the same thing when the mavs acquired nash from phoenix.............
> 
> [email protected] mavs being a sixth seed. That's just funny to me


No, nobody was saying that. People were saying he's not very good. But there is a huge difference between saying someone isn't very good and saying someone doesn't deserve to be in the NBA at all. Nash clearly deserved to be in the league when he was traded.


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## Amareca

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> But big men are harder to come by. You're just mad cause ya suns wanted dampier. Enjoy nash. it's gonna be fun watching the mavs sweep em during the reg season agai


again?

Didn't we happen to blow you out like a junior high team so that Fortson felt like he had to injure Zarko?


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## Hibachi!

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> So Dallas lets Nash go to trade for a guy who is much less valueable and makes almost the same? 6yrs/50M$ compared to 6yrs/60M$ with a partial buyout for the 6th year.
> 
> And the Suns won't be 10th. They will be 3rd or 5th-8th. On paper they have clearly more talent than either the Kings or Lakers.


On paper they have more talent than the Suns


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## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> No, nobody was saying that. People were saying he's not very good. But there is a huge difference between saying someone isn't very good and saying someone doesn't deserve to be in the NBA at all. Nash clearly deserved to be in the league when he was traded.


he did? 

nash shot 36 percent from da field his first season as the mavs starting pg. he put up 8 and 6. 

he shot 40 percent the next year and put up 9 and 5

He got a huge CONTRACT extension from the mavs and did nothing the first two years he was there. And that's when he wasn't on IR. 

You act like dickau is starting for the mavs. He's their 3rd string pg. LOL


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## Hibachi!

I don't know how good Dampier will be, maybe he will be motivated because he's on a decent team. They are still behind Sacramento Minnesota San Antonio Memphis and maybe the Lakers and Houston


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## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> again?
> 
> Didn't we happen to blow you out like a junior high team so that Fortson felt like he had to injure Zarko?


yall won the first game. then got SPANKED the next 3 meetings. Obviously you have amnesia right?

11/26/03 Phoenix 121, Dallas 90 at Phoenix 
3/8/04 Dallas 103, Phoenix 90 at Dallas 
3/13/04 Dallas 113, Phoenix 90 at Phoenix 
4/3/04 Dallas 124, Phoenix 103 at Dallas


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## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> I don't know how good Dampier will be, maybe he will be motivated because he's on a decent team. They are still behind Sacramento Minnesota San Antonio Memphis and maybe the Lakers and Houston


[email protected] [email protected] lakers. [email protected] [email protected] wolves. [email protected] kings

only team i'm worried bout is the spurs in the west and the pistons in the east


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## Hibachi!

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> [email protected] [email protected] lakers. [email protected] [email protected] wolves. [email protected] kings
> 
> only team i'm worried bout is the spurs in the west and the pistons in the east


Wow, I've heard of homerism but geesh..


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## Hibachi!

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> yall won the first game. then got SPANKED the next 3 meetings. Obviously you have amnesia right?
> 
> 11/26/03 Phoenix 121, Dallas 90 at Phoenix
> 3/8/04 Dallas 103, Phoenix 90 at Dallas
> 3/13/04 Dallas 113, Phoenix 90 at Phoenix
> 4/3/04 Dallas 124, Phoenix 103 at Dallas


Since when is 3-1 a sweep?


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## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> Wow, I've heard of homerism but geesh..


the lakers are old and have chucky atkins at pg. nuff said

The kings are injury prone and peja chokes every year. nuff said

Memphis still can't shoot and this aint college bball. Full court press for 48 mins will get them sent home just like last year. They deep but have no go to guy and the mavs are better than them at EVERY POSITION 

Houston has yao, tmac and a bunch of nothing else. They won't see the mavs either


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## HKF

Oh boy. We need the season to start right now. 

Screw the Eastern Conference. The West is still where it's at.


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## Burn

The only reason JT is getting slept on in this thread is because people haven't watched Hawks games. He's been a borderline top 10 PG surrounded by black holes on a bad team for a lot of seasons and is going to surprise a lot of people next season. Run on sentence, run on.


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## Hibachi!

> Originally posted by <b>Burn</b>!
> The only reason JT is getting slept on in this thread is because people haven't watched Hawks games. He's been a borderline top 10 PG surrounded by black holes on a bad team for a lot of seasons and is going to surprise a lot of people next season. Run on sentence, run on.


To be borderline top 10 isn't very good. Not that many good PG's in the NBA


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## Yyzlin

Here are my Western Conference predictions. 

1. San Antonio (Southwest)
2. Sacramento (Pacific)
3. Minnesota (Northwest)
4. Dallas 
5. Utah
6. Houston
7. Denver
8. Memphis
-------------------------------
9. LA Lakers
10. New Orleans
11. Phoenix
12. Portland
13. Seattle
14. LA Clippers
15. Golden State

Needless to say, the conference is stacked.


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## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Burn</b>!
> The only reason JT is getting slept on in this thread is because people haven't watched Hawks games. He's been a borderline top 10 PG surrounded by black holes on a bad team for a lot of seasons and is going to surprise a lot of people next season. Run on sentence, run on.


yep. peeps sleep on terry. He's a top 10 pg next year. The mavs have greatly improved their teams and if anyone says they aren't a title c ontender they just don't know bball


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## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> To be borderline top 10 isn't very good. Not that many good PG's in the NBA


you act like bibby is top five. He's one of the worst playmakers in the league and is only effective running off screens. it's debable whether he's a better fit for the kings than bobby jax.


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## HKF

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> you act like bibby is top five. He's one of the worst playmakers in the league and is only effective running off screens. it's debable whether he's a better fit for the kings than bobby jax.


Bibby's one of the worst playmakers in the league? Maybe you need to stop trying to drop knowledge and fix your spelling.


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## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Bibby's one of the worst playmakers in the league? Maybe you need to stop trying to drop knowledge and fix your spelling.


yep. 

Divac and WEbber AND CHRISTIE are better passers than him and made the plays passing wise

It's funny how peeps are talking about Terry only putting up five dimes a game last year but BIBBY has done it for his ENTIRE CAREER IN SACTOWN. he's never put up more than five dimes a game in a kings uni. He averaged 5 dimes and 2 turnovers last game. that's not "good" no matter how you try to spin it


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## droppinknowledge

miller is also a better passer than bibby and even flirted with alot of triple dubs last year. I think he even had like 2 or 3


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## Pan Mengtu

Hahaha, Bibby is arguably the best natural PG in the league today, arguably the best pick and roll PG in the league today (Cassell his only rival in that), and clutch as hell. Yeah, he's top 5 easily.


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## Hibachi!

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> yep.
> 
> Divac and WEbber AND CHRISTIE are better passers than him and made the plays passing wise
> 
> It's funny how peeps are talking about Terry only putting up five dimes a game last year but BIBBY has done it for his ENTIRE CAREER IN SACTOWN. he's never put up more than five dimes a game in a kings uni. He averaged 5 dimes and 2 turnovers last game. that's not "good" no matter how you try to spin it


Goodness gracious do you know NOTHING of the Kings offense?


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## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> Hahaha, Bibby is arguably the best natural PG in the league today, arguably the best pick and roll PG in the league today (Cassell his only rival in that), and clutch as hell. Yeah, he's top 5 easily.


he is?

He's not better at the pick n roll than nash. 


Kidd
Nash
Marbury
Cassell
Baron


are EASILY better than Bibby.


It's funny though. how is he a natural pg? A natural pg is jason kidd. A distributor. Bibby is an sg playing pg. 

Kinda funnythough. Isn't jason terry the exact same thing? yet that was a "bad trade" for the mavs. Terry is NVE reincarnated. :yes:


----------



## Hibachi!

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> he is?
> 
> He's not better at the pick n roll than nash.
> 
> 
> Kidd
> Nash
> Marbury
> Cassell
> Baron
> 
> 
> are EASILY better than Bibby.
> 
> 
> It's funny though. how is he a natural pg? A natural pg is jason kidd. A distributor. Bibby is an sg playing pg.
> 
> Kinda funnythough. Isn't jason terry the exact same thing? yet that was a "bad trade" for the mavs. Terry is NVE reincarnated. :yes:


Well I'm not sure about Kidds knee, did you SEE the Dallas Sac series? Bibby TORE NASH UP... Marbury is better, Cassell is equal, and Baron is better...


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> Goodness gracious do you know NOTHING of the Kings offense?


The kings offense is run through vlade, cwebb, miller and christie. You wanna know why? cause bibby's decision making isn't that good. his ball handling is average as well. Even when he ran the point in vancouver he was turning it over 3 times a game. he's only averaged 8 dimes 2 times in his career. He's a terrible defender. His defense is worse than nash's. The kings are much more effective when bobby jax is out there running the point. Their "D" is better and the offense runs alot more smoothly with him on the court than bibby.

Bibby is overrated as I don't know what. When he can't score he's not effective. Him shooting 38 percent in round 2 is the main reason ya team went home becuase instead of getting his teammates involved he KEPT shooting even though he was cold. that's not what a "natural pg" does


----------



## Drewbs

You all are sleeping on Devin Harris as well, they lost Nash and that hurts, but you know what, as good as Nash was on offense, he was terrible on defense. The only problem for them without Nash is someone who can control the tempo and make the plays like he did. Devin Harris is a good shooter, he is very quick and atheletic and his size for a PG is perfect. He is a bit over the average, and he is a superb defender when he is focused. No, he is not better than Nash, beause of Nash's experience and offensive skills, but Harris is no scrub either. Also, don't forget about Daniels. Him and Josh Howard are both very good perimeter defenders as well. Howard is an absolute ballhawk, his length lets him easily play the passing lanes for steals. But Terry will probably start. He is not bad either, he even averaged 7 assists on the Hawks. He also can defend, and he is a decent shooter as well. Offensively, the Mavericks were solid, probably the best offensive team in the NBA along with the Kings. Theyre defense has gone way up as now theyre best perimeter defenders will be getting more playing time, and theyre biggest weakness of interior D and toughness has been resolved with Dampier. Losing Nash hurt their offense, but Dirk, Finley, Daniels and Howard can all score, while Dirk still sucks at defense, he will occasionally still swat a few shots, and Finley at least tries to stay infront of his man.


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> Well I'm not sure about Kidds knee, did you SEE the Dallas Sac series? Bibby TORE NASH UP... Marbury is better, Cassell is equal, and Baron is better...


[email protected] equal. You're talking about a pg that shot 50 percent from the field last year. No way. LOL


bibby and nash go back and forth. you can prolly make a case for either one. 2 years ago nash EMBARRASSED BIBBY. did you forget about that? nash shot 51 percent from da field. Bibby shot 42 percent and put up 12 and 4. That's terrible. 

I'd take billups over Bibby as well.


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> [email protected] [email protected] lakers. [email protected] [email protected] wolves. [email protected] kings
> 
> only team i'm worried bout is the spurs in the west and the pistons in the east


LMAO @ this guy. Dampier is going to bring that defense Dallas has been missing for so long huh? It's arguable that Dallas is better than some of the teams (except the Lakers because I personally believe they are much better the Lakers) but it's *DEFINITELY* not a sureshot. You lost Antawn Jamison (6th man of the year btw), Antoine Walker (no big loss here I guess), and Steve Nash from last year when you were a 6th seed. Adding Dampier puts you above Memphis, Minnesota, Sacramento, and Houston (acquired McGrady and solid roleplayers)? Stop talking like this made Dallas get astronomically better because the other teams out West have already gotten *MUCH* better than Dallas has made themselve's with this trade. I see it like this: (The Texas Triangle is *UGLY* this year guys. No one is weak.) :uhoh: 

1. San Antonio
2. Minnesota
3. Sacramento
4. Houston
5. Dallas
6. Denver
7. Memphis
8. Utah
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

9. Phoenix
10. LA Lakers
11. New Orleans
12. Portland
13. LA Clippers
14. Portland
15. Golden State

The West is plain *STACKED*. East stronger than the West?


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>J Blaze</b>!
> 
> 
> LMAO @ this guy. Dampier is going to bring that defense Dallas has been missing for so long huh? It's arguable that Dallas is better than some of the teams (except the Lakers because I personally believe they are much better the Lakers) but it's *DEFINITELY* not a sureshot. You lost Antawn Jamison (6th man of the year btw), Antoine Walker (no big loss here I guess), and Steve Nash from last year when you were a 6th seed. Adding Dampier puts you above Memphis, Minnesota, Sacramento, and Houston (acquired McGrady and solid roleplayers)? Stop talking like this made Dallas got astronomically better because the other teams out West have already gotten *MUCH* better than Dallas has made themselve's with this trade. I see it like this: (The Texas Triangle is *UGLY* this year guys. No one is weak. :uhoh:
> 
> 1. San Antonio
> 2. Minnesota
> 3. Sacramento
> 4. Houston
> 5. Dallas
> 6. Denver
> 7. Memphis
> 8. Utah
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 9. Phoenix
> 10. LA Lakers
> 11. New Orleans
> 12. Portland
> 13. LA Clippers
> 14. Portland
> 15. Golden State
> 
> The West is plain *STACKED*. East stronger than the West?



what you are failling to realize is that the mavs are ballhawks now. 

Terry is a solid perimeter defender and was in the top20 in steals this past year


Daniels was in the top five in spg in the postseason. He's a heck of a defender as well.

Fin is solid defensively and there's not that many good sf's in the league for him to guard anywaz and if they do give him trouble then that's when howard steps in and clamps them

kobe shot 33 percent against the mavs last year. So did tmac. You wanna know why? cause josh howard was CLAMPING THEM BOTH. he's 6 7 with a 7 2 wingspan. He was a 2 time acc defenisve player of the year. He's a monster on that side of the ball.

Dirk will swat a few shots and now with guys like dampier, booth, dj, and bradley backing him up he won't get exposed on "D" so much.

This team has all the pieces in place to win a ship. you guys just don't wanna admit it


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Drewbs</b>!
> You all are sleeping on Devin Harris as well, they lost Nash and that hurts, but you know what, as good as Nash was on offense, he was terrible on defense. The only problem for them without Nash is someone who can control the tempo and make the plays like he did. Devin Harris is a good shooter, he is very quick and atheletic and his size for a PG is perfect. He is a bit over the average, and he is a superb defender when he is focused. No, he is not better than Nash, beause of Nash's experience and offensive skills, but Harris is no scrub either. Also, don't forget about Daniels. Him and Josh Howard are both very good perimeter defenders as well. Howard is an absolute ballhawk, his length lets him easily play the passing lanes for steals. But Terry will probably start. He is not bad either, he even averaged 7 assists on the Hawks. He also can defend, and he is a decent shooter as well. Offensively, the Mavericks were solid, probably the best offensive team in the NBA along with the Kings. Theyre defense has gone way up as now theyre best perimeter defenders will be getting more playing time, and theyre biggest weakness of interior D and toughness has been resolved with Dampier. Losing Nash hurt their offense, but Dirk, Finley, Daniels and Howard can all score, while Dirk still sucks at defense, he will occasionally still swat a few shots, and Finley at least tries to stay infront of his man.


yep peeps are missing that. Howard, Terry, Daniels AND HOWARD are absolute ballhawks. 

Daniels howard and harris all averaged 3 steals a game in summer leagues. They are BALL HAWKS. 

Terry is a ball hawk too. 

dampier is strong and mans the middle and if he gets in foul trouble then booth comes in and picks up the slack. He can also back dirk up at pf along with dj. 

This team has all the pieces in place to win it all next year. Will it come together? Only time will tell. but theres now way in heck you can convince me that this mavs team isn't AT LEAST TOP 3


----------



## Drewbs

> Originally posted by <b>J Blaze</b>!
> 
> and Houston (acquired McGrady and solid roleplayers)?



LMAO, since when were Tyronn Lue, Reece Gaines and Juwan Howard solid role players??? The only solid role player on that whole team is Jim Jackson. Tyronn Lue is perhaps the WORST defensive player in the league. He can hit a few shots on offense, but he gives up way more on defense, Gaines is not much better, and Howard, being hte blackhole he is, makes every team he is on worse.


----------



## hobojoe

I like this move for the Mavs if Dampier is motivated. I still think they're going to make a hard push at Kidd before the season starts, Terry, Henderson and possibly Josh Howard if necessary. I don't think the Mavs are title contenders as of right now with this move, but if they do get Kidd like I think they will, then they'll be right up there with San Antonio and Minnesota.


----------



## HKF

I think I've found a homer to rival BigAmare. I didn't think it was possible, but with some of these off-season moves this year, the true HOMERS are out in full effect. :|


----------



## Drewbs

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> I like this move for the Mavs if Dampier is motivated. I still think they're going to make a hard push at Kidd before the season starts, Terry, Henderson and possibly Josh Howard if necessary. I don't think the Mavs are title contenders as of right now with this move, but if they do get Kidd like I think they will, then they'll be right up there with San Antonio and Minnesota.


The Mavs are so stacked that it may not be too hard to get Kidd in Dallas actually, but the fact that his knee may be a problem could be kind of scary for Cuban and co. Anyway, I am not a homer, but when someone says, "the Mavs sucked on defense last year, getting Dampier isn't going to make them better" simply does not make sense.


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> what you are failling to realize is that the mavs are ballhawks now.
> 
> Terry is a solid perimeter defender and was in the top20 in steals this past year
> 
> 
> Daniels was in the top five in spg in the postseason. He's a heck of a defender as well.
> 
> Fin is solid defensively and there's not that many good sf's in the league for him to guard anywaz and if they do give him trouble then that's when howard steps in and clamps them
> 
> kobe shot 33 percent against the mavs last year. So did tmac. You wanna know why? cause josh howard was CLAMPING THEM BOTH. he's 6 7 with a 7 2 wingspan. He was a 2 time acc defenisve player of the year. He's a monster on that side of the ball.
> 
> Dirk will swat a few shots and now with guys like dampier, booth, dj, and bradley backing him up he won't get exposed on "D" so much.
> 
> This team has all the pieces in place to win a ship. you guys just don't wanna admit it


Jason Terry was top *20* in steals. Ok. Top 20 is nice but hardly qualifies you as a ball hawk.

Daniels was top 5 in SPG in the *postseason* when most teams many teams aren't playing. Yeah, it is the playoffs but do if for a whole year then it will be more acceptable. Still you don't qualify as a ballhawk.

With all due respect, Finley is an excellent player but he has *NEVER* been identified as a defensive player and he has many injuries to deal with. Not a ballhawk.

I haven't really seen Daniels play so I don't know about his defense. You are obviously biased so I wouldn't take your word for it. Tmac could have shot like that because his team was horrible last year. Not to mention, people do have bad games. Dallas is no more complete a team as Minnesota, Houston, or Sacramento, which you say Dallas is clearly better than and not challengers to win the Championship.


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>Drewbs</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO, since when were Tyronn Lue, Reece Gaines and Juwan Howard solid role players??? The only solid role player on that whole team is Jim Jackson. Tyronn Lue is perhaps the WORST defensive player in the league. He can hit a few shots on offense, but he gives up way more on defense, Gaines is not much better, and Howard, being hte blackhole he is, makes every team he is on worse.


I'm talking about Sura and Ward. Juwan Howard's career average is 18/7/3. He will be our *3RD* maybe 4th option. Yes is he solid. Reece Gaines may not even play for us next year. People forget Tyronn Lue has playoff experience (won a championship with the Lakers) and ran the Laker's offense well enough to win a championship. He will be our backup PG I.E. will not be counted on to contribute many points. He will be asked to get the ball inside, find the open man, and take the open shot when he has it.


----------



## Burn

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> To be borderline top 10 isn't very good. Not that many good PG's in the NBA


Actually it is very good, because there are 30 teams in the league, and PG is probably the 2nd strongest position in the league behind PF. I'd wager most would put the 10th best PG above the 10th best SF or SG. BTW, Bibby was also borderline top 10 when you guys got him, and then all of a sudden he had a bunch of scoring options around him and his stock rocketed. Expect Terry to be even better with one of the best offensive arsenals in the league.


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>J Blaze</b>!
> 
> 
> Jason Terry was top *20* in steals. Ok. Top 20 is nice but hardly qualifies you as a ball hawk.
> 
> Daniels was top 5 in SPG in the *postseason* when most teams many teams aren't playing. Yeah, it is the playoffs but do if for a whole year then it will be more acceptable. Still you don't qualify as a ballhawk.
> 
> With all due respect, Finley is an excellent player but he has *NEVER* been identified as a defensive player and he has many injuries to deal with. Not a ballhawk.
> 
> I haven't really seen Daniels play so I don't know about his defense. You are obviously biased so I wouldn't take your word for it. Tmac could have shot like that because his team was horrible last year. Not to mention, people do have bad games. Dallas is no more complete a team as Minnesota, Houston, or Sacramento, which you say Dallas is clearly better than and not challengers to win the Championship.


he's solid on "D" lol. check peja's stats. that was with daniels on him. He shot terribly against the mavs

Um no. Tmac shot like that with daniels all over him


Howard held kobe to 33 percent in like 3 GAMES. it's no fluke

http://www.dfw.net/~patricia/mavs/mavs-stats/03-04/boxscores/box12-12

kobe was 4 for 18 in that game

http://www.dfw.net/~patricia/mavs/mavs-stats/03-04/boxscores/box12-4

9 for 23 in that one

whenever howard is on him he can't shoot over the top of him cause this guy has a 7 2 wingspan

Daniels is the alltime steals leader at auburn.

Over the past 2 months of the season daniels put up 20 5 and 5 for the mavs with almost 2 steals a game. 

terry put up almost 2 steals a game last year


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> I think I've found a homer to rival BigAmare. I didn't think it was possible, but with some of these off-season moves this year, the true HOMERS are out in full effect. :|


amare doesn't back up what he says with stats. neither do you. You just ramble opinions and whatnot. There's no way you can convince me that the mavs are a sixth seed with that team. that's hilarious


----------



## HKF

All I know is, when Jason Terry and Mike Bibby were both at Arizona, Terry came off the bench. That was then and this is now and the same result would happen. Terry isn't better than Bibby.


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>J Blaze</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm talking about Sura and Ward. Juwan Howard's career average is 18/7/3. He will be our *3RD* maybe 4th option. Yes is he solid. Reece Gaines may not even play for us next year. People forget Tyronn Lue has playoff experience (won a championship with the Lakers) and ran the Laker's offense well enough to win a championship. He will be our backup PG I.E. will not be counted on to contribute many points. He will be asked to get the ball inside, find the open man, and take the open shot when he has it.



so sura and ward combined with tmac and yao make this rockets team better than the mavs with terry, daniels, fin, dirk and dampier starting? :laugh:


----------



## HKF

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> amare doesn't back up what he says with stats. neither do you. You just ramble opinions and whatnot. There's no way you can convince me that the mavs are a sixth seed with that team. that's hilarious


I just ramble? Please fool. I didn't put them 6th, but since you can't read, you won't be able to get the information. 

I put them 4th, which is going to happen most likely if they don't win the Southwest Division. Do you even know about the divisional alignments? Please know your role jabroni. 

Droppin Knowledge my ***.


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> All I know is, when Jason Terry and Mike Bibby were both at Arizona, Terry came off the bench. That was then and this is now and the same result would happen. Terry isn't better than Bibby.


and all I know is that christian laettner was one of the best pfs in college history and his nba career has been blah. wtf does that have to do with the nba right now? LOL before bibby started he was on the bench while simon was there. Simon isn't even in the nba. So what does that have to do with anything? LOL


----------



## HKF

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> and all I know is that christian laettner was one of the best pfs in college history and his nba career has been blah. wtf does that have to do with the nba right now? LOL before bibby started he was on the bench while simon was there. Simon isn't even in the nba. So what does that have to do with anything? LOL


Apparently you have no idea what you are talking about, because Mike Bibby started as a true freshman for Arizona next to Miles Simon and Michael Dickerson (the year they won the National Title). 

Please stop talking, you are only making yourself look dumber.


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> he's solid on "D" lol. check peja's stats. that was with daniels on him. He shot terribly against the mavs
> 
> Um no. Tmac shot like that with daniels all over him
> 
> 
> Howard held kobe to 33 percent in like 3 GAMES. it's no fluke
> 
> http://www.dfw.net/~patricia/mavs/mavs-stats/03-04/boxscores/box12-12
> 
> kobe was 4 for 18 in that game
> 
> http://www.dfw.net/~patricia/mavs/mavs-stats/03-04/boxscores/box12-4
> 
> 9 for 23 in that one
> 
> whenever howard is on him he can't shoot over the top of him cause this guy has a 7 2 wingspan
> 
> Daniels is the alltime steals leader at auburn.
> 
> Over the past 2 months of the season daniels put up 20 5 and 5 for the mavs with almost 2 steals a game.
> 
> terry put up almost 2 steals a game last year


:laugh: So you give me Peja as a reference to show Daniels' defense in the playoffs. *PEJA!?* Come on now Peja did the same thing in the playoffs last year and the year before that. Give me something better.

That's nice about Tmac and all but Tmac had a horrible team around him, remember that. He had no choice but to jack up bad shots against everyone, not only the Mavs.

College statistics do not matter much in the NBA so you can stop bringing those up. If that was the case, Christian Laettner would have been one of the all-time greats.

I won't comment on the Kobe stats because Kobe had similar games like that in the Finals and I really don't know anything about Daniel's defense.

Like I said, Terry still doesn't qualify as a ballhawk. *I mean, does anyone else agree with him that the Mavericks are ballhawks now?*


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> I just ramble? Please fool. I didn't put them 6th, but since you can't read, you won't be able to get the information.
> 
> I put them 4th, which is going to happen most likely if they don't win the Southwest Division. Do you even know about the divisional alignments? Please know your role jabroni.
> 
> Droppin Knowledge my ***.


yep I know about defensive alignments. WHo is to say the spurs will finish in front of the mavs? They added brent barry. whooptie do. They have one decent shooter now.

Dampier can hold his own with duncan. Hes strong enough.

Terry and Harris can run with parker. They both just as fast as he is.

Daniels and manu will be interesting

Dirk will be guarded by rasho :laugh: or get in foul trouble trying to keep dampier off the glass

The spurs have NO BENCH whatsoever. This team just aint that good to me. They were exposed last year by the lakers


----------



## Drewbs

I don't think that Terry is better than Bibby, but I think that after this deal, the Mavs are probably tied with the Kings in the west depending on what happens with Peja Stojakovic. I do not think that the Mavs are better than the Spurs though, so I would probably give them a 4th seed at best.


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>J Blaze</b>!
> 
> 
> :laugh: So you give me Peja as a reference to show Daniels' defense in the playoffs. *PEJA!?* Come on now Peja did the same thing in the playoffs last year and the year before that. Give me something better.
> 
> That's nice about Tmac and all but Tmac had a horrible team around him, remember that. He had no choice but to jack up bad shots against everyone, not only the Mavs.
> 
> I won't comment on the Kobe stats because Kobe had similar games like that in the Finals and I really don't know anything about Daniel's defense.
> 
> Like I said, Terry still doesn't qualify as a ballhawk. *I mean, does anyone else agree with him that the Mavericks are ballhawks now?*


oh ok. So tmac can score on everyone else consistently but shoots like crap with daniels draped all over him huh? You don't know anything about daniels "D' but you're speaking on it. That's just not "that smart"


----------



## HKF

My God talk about overrating Dampier. When did he turn into an All-Star? He is a serviceable big men, that's it. If he asked to do more than lay-it-in or dunk, he is worthless to Dallas.


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>J Blaze</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> College statistics do not matter much in the NBA so you can stop bringing those up. If that was the case, Christian Laettner would have been one of the all-time greats.
> 
> ?[/B]





> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> All I know is, when Jason Terry and Mike Bibby were both at Arizona, Terry came off the bench. That was then and this is now and the same result would happen. Terry isn't better than Bibby..


but yet this guy is talking aboutwhat terry and bibby did in college and comparing it to what would happen if they met on the court in the nba. LOL that's hilarious


----------



## Drewbs

> Originally posted by <b>J Blaze</b>!
> 
> I won't comment on the Kobe stats because Kobe had similar games like that in the Finals and I really don't know anything about Daniel's defense.


Yes, Kobe was like that in the Finals for a reason... Tayshaun Prince locked him down. :laugh: Seriously, pay attention, Prince is a guy a lot like Howard, he is agile and has a nice long wingspan, but probably a bit better offensively, though Howard plays the passing lanes extremely well and is very good at keeping up with high scoring swingmen like Kobe and Tmac.


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> so sura and ward combined with tmac and yao make this rockets team better than the mavs with terry, daniels, fin, dirk and dampier starting? :laugh:


No.

Yao/Dikembe or Clark (whoever they sign)
Juwan Howard/Maurice Taylor (3rd in 6th MOTY votes last year
Jim Jackson/Nachbar
Tracy McGrady/Sura
Charlie Ward/Sura/Lue

That lineup makes them better than Dallas in my opinion.


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Apparently you have no idea what you are talking about, because Mike Bibby started as a true freshman for Arizona next to Miles Simon and Michael Dickerson (the year they won the National Title).
> 
> Please stop talking, you are only making yourself look dumber.


and he wasn't better than simon was he? nope! using your logic since simon was better than bibby at ZONA then bibby should better than bibby in the nba making him a top five nba pg when he can't even make the bobcats roster. shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh be quiet. :laugh:


----------



## HKF

God I forgot how obnoxious Mavs fans can be. Thanks for reminding me. When they don't win the brass ring again, I hope you are still around.


----------



## Burn

FYI: I DON'T THINK TERRY IS OR WILL BE BETTER THAN BIBBY, I USED BIBBY AS AN EXAMPLE OF A POINT GUARD WHO GOT MORE RECOGNITION ONCE HE LEFT A BAD TEAM FOR A GOOD ONE. TERRY IS A VERY GOOD PLAYER AND UNLESS YOU'VE WATCHED ATLANTA GAMES STOP, JUST STOP DOUBTING MY UNBREAKABLE WORD


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> My God talk about overrating Dampier. When did he turn into an All-Star? He is a serviceable big men, that's it. If he asked to do more than lay-it-in or dunk, he is worthless to Dallas.


[email protected] big man

Dampier put up 12 points 12 boards and 2 blocks last year

he was first in offensive rebounds. 

before the mavs got dampier everyone on here was saying "the mavs should get dampier" and the instant they do now he sux. :laugh:


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>J Blaze</b>!
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> Yao/Dikembe or Clark (whoever they sign)
> Juwan Howard/Maurice Taylor (3rd in 6th MOTY votes last year
> Jim Jackson/Nachbar
> Tracy McGrady/Sura
> Charlie Ward/Sura/Lue
> 
> That lineup makes them better than Dallas in my opinion.



lol

Dampier/booth/Dj/Bradley (even)
Dirk (advantage mavs)
fin/howard (advantage mavs)
daniels/stack (advantage rockets)
terry/harris/dickau (advantage mavs)


that's just not smart man.


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>Drewbs</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes, Kobe was like that in the Finals for a reason... Tayshaun Prince locked him down. :laugh: Seriously, pay attention, Prince is a guy a lot like Howard, he is agile and has a nice long wingspan, but probably a bit better offensively, though Howard plays the passing lanes extremely well and is very good at keeping up with high scoring swingmen like Kobe and Tmac.


:laugh: You jumping on me because I don't think Dallas is as good as knowledge is saying they are? Or because I'm a Houston fan? Argue with d_knowledge. :sour: Yeah, you're right Tayshaun did A LOT to stop Kobe but Kobe had horrible shot selection even when Tayshaun wasn't on him. I guess Tayshaun got in his head or something.


----------



## HKF

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> and he wasn't better than simon was he? nope! using your logic since simon was better than bibby at ZONA then bibby should better than bibby in the nba making him a top five nba pg when he can't even make the bobcats roster. shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh be quiet. :laugh:


I have the games on tape. Without Bibby they lose to South Alabama, College of Charleston (and Anthony Johnson), Kansas (Jacque Vaughn, Paul Pierce, Raef Lafrentz and Scott Pollard), Providence (Austin Croshere, Jamel Thomas and God Shammgod), UNC (Jamison, Carter, Cota) and Kentucky. 

In every single game in the tournament, Arizona needed Bibby to lead them to victory. 

I am not going to argue this anymore, because for some reason, I feel like I am arguing with a little kid. You obviously didn't watch those games, if you think Miles Simon was even remotely their best player. He may have won MOP at the Final Four, but if you watched Bibby in the Charleston, Kansas and Providence games, you would know he was the best player and leader as a true freshman.


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> God I forgot how obnoxious Mavs fans can be. Thanks for reminding me. When they don't win the brass ring again, I hope you are still around.


hahahahaha. Once again. no matter what move the mavs make it's wrong. First people were saying they should get dampier and they'd be ship contenders. Then they get him and they still suck. No matter what the mavs do you guys gonna have 30 million reasons why they won't win the ship. When the only center left in the west that had numbers anywhere close to dampiers is yao. And yao would get pushed around by dampier in the post all day.


----------



## HKF

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> [email protected] big man
> 
> Dampier put up 12 points 12 boards and 2 blocks last year
> 
> he was first in offensive rebounds.
> 
> before the mavs got dampier everyone on here was saying "the mavs should get dampier" and the instant they do now he sux. :laugh:


Aren't you the least bit worried that this is his best season ever and he is now 30 years old and in a contract year when he did it? You really need to understand the NBA game better. Check the guy's career averages. Pretty crappy.


----------



## HKF

If Dampier is so good, why hasn't he made an All-Star team?


----------



## Drewbs

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> If Dampier is so good, why hasn't he made an All-Star team?


Yao, and Shaq.


----------



## Hibachi!

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> what you are failling to realize is that the mavs are ballhawks now.
> 
> Terry is a solid perimeter defender and was in the top20 in steals this past year
> 
> 
> Daniels was in the top five in spg in the postseason. He's a heck of a defender as well.
> 
> Fin is solid defensively and there's not that many good sf's in the league for him to guard anywaz and if they do give him trouble then that's when howard steps in and clamps them
> 
> kobe shot 33 percent against the mavs last year. So did tmac. You wanna know why? cause josh howard was CLAMPING THEM BOTH. he's 6 7 with a 7 2 wingspan. He was a 2 time acc defenisve player of the year. He's a monster on that side of the ball.
> 
> Dirk will swat a few shots and now with guys like dampier, booth, dj, and bradley backing him up he won't get exposed on "D" so much.
> 
> This team has all the pieces in place to win a ship. you guys just don't wanna admit it


Rafer Alston was top 20 team, doesn't make him a great defender


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> I have the games on tape. Without Bibby they lose to South Alabama, College of Charleston (and Anthony Johnson), Kansas (Jacque Vaughn, Paul Pierce, Raef Lafrentz and Scott Pollard), Providence (Austin Croshere, Jamel Thomas and God Shammgod), UNC (Jamison, Carter, Cota) and Kentucky.
> 
> In every single game in the tournament, Arizona needed Bibby to lead them to victory.
> 
> I am not going to argue this anymore, because for some reason, I feel like I am arguing with a little kid. You obviously didn't watch those games, if you think Miles Simon was even remotely their best player. He may have won MOP at the Final Four, but if you watched Bibby in the Charleston, Kansas and Providence games, you would know he was the best player and leader as a true freshman.



Miles Simon was the MVp of Zona's team with dickerson and bibby picking up slack. He was their most consistent player during that entire season. 

You know just as lil about college bball as you do about nba bball. 


http://cgi.canoe.ca/NCAAFINALFOUR97/apr1_mil.html


Simon refused to let Kentucky's reputation for defensive disruption shake his confidence. Rather, he converted their intensity into an advantage for Arizona. He scored 30 points, converting 14 of 17 free throws in the 84-79 overtime victory. 
This was Simon at his best, setting the pace, making the big plays and big shots. 
It was typical of his style. 



He was the MVP of the Southeast Regional, scoring 30 points in the overtime win against Providence that thrust Arizona into the Final Four. 
Then, when North Carolina shot to a 15-4 lead in their semifinal match, Simon brought the Wildcats back. He scored eight of the 10 points that got Arizona back in the game and assisted on the other basket. 
He finished with 24 points, told North Carolina coach Dean Smith how honored he was to play against him, and turned his attention to one last game -- 40 minutes and then five extra ones for a championship. 


guess these sports writers don't know what they talking about either huh? :laugh:


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> lol
> 
> Dampier/booth/Dj/Bradley (even)
> Dirk (advantage mavs)
> fin/howard (advantage mavs)
> daniels/stack (advantage rockets)
> terry/harris/dickau (advantage mavs)
> 
> 
> that's just not smart man.


:laugh: 

C - Yao is better than anything the Mavs can put out there. HOU
PF - Mavs have this because of Dirk but where is the depth? DAL
SF - Finley and Howard are better than JJ and Nackbar. DAL
SG - No question here. HOU
PG - Sura/Ward/Lue is better than Terry/Harris/Dickau because we don't need running PG's and tweeners. We need PG's who set up the offense and make smart plays.

The bottom line is Houston has 2 top 15 players. 1 top 5 SG (scoring champ) and the 2nd best Center in the league (best in the West). The supporting cast is solid and has experience. Come on now.


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> If Dampier is so good, why hasn't he made an All-Star team?


shaq and yao. The team is only required to have 2 centers. yao got voted on even though dampier had a much better season. cassell didn't make an allstar game until last year. I guess that mean he sucked all his previous years too huh? :laugh:


----------



## HKF

If you say so... I just started watching NCAA and NBA ball yesterday, you caught me red-handed.


----------



## Jay-Ballin

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> lol
> 
> *Dampier/booth/Dj/Bradley (even)*
> Dirk (advantage mavs)
> fin/howard (advantage mavs)
> daniels/stack (advantage rockets)
> terry/harris/dickau (advantage mavs)
> 
> 
> that's just not smart man.


Your telling me Dampier is on the level of Yao? Take that back, none of those guys are even or equal to yao and if having more advantages at each position decided how good a team was, then duos like Kobe and Shaq would not have survived in this league.


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>J Blaze</b>!
> 
> 
> :laugh:
> 
> C - Yao is better than anything the Mavs can put out there. HOU
> PF - Mavs have this because of Dirk even where is the depth? DAL
> SF - Finley and Howard are better than JJ and Nackbar. DAL
> SG - No question here. HOU
> PG - Sura/Ward/Lue is better than Terry/Harris/Dickau because we don't need running PG's and tweeners. We need PG's who set up the offense and make smart plays.
> 
> The bottom line is Houston has 2 top 15 players. 1 top 5 SG (scoring champ) and the 2nd best Center in the league (best in the West). The supporting cast is solid and has experience. Come on now.


HILARIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [email protected] and ward and lue better than terry harris and dickau. that's HILARIOUS

[email protected] BEING top15. 

Houston had 3 of the 50 greatest players in nba history a few years back. I wonder what happened to that teams title hopes. :laugh:


----------



## HKF

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> shaq and yao. The team is only required to have 2 centers. yao got voted on even though dampier had a much better season. cassell didn't make an allstar game until last year. I guess that mean he sucked all his previous years too huh? :laugh:


Are you really trying to compare Sam Cassell's career to Erick Dampier? Oh my goodness...


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> If Dampier is so good, why hasn't he made an All-Star team?





> Yao, and Shaq.


:yes:


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Jay-Ballin</b>!
> Your telling me Dampier is on the level of Yao? Take that back, none of those guys are even or equal to yao and if having more advantages at each position decided how good a team was, then duos like Kobe and Shaq would not have survived in this league.


yao is'nt that strong. He has no stamina. Dampier is strong as an ox and have even held his own with shaq and been effective keeping out of the lane. plus the mavs can bring in other guys to use to defend ya. once yao gets in foul trouble then what?

Kobe and Shaq are top five in the nba. That's all they needed. Then surrounded with a great coach and the right type of team they won. But they also lost in the postseason and got swept by th ejazz twice before they won. 

I mean Shaq and Penny were just as good as penny and kobe and that magic team was full of more talent than that lakers team. meant nothing. That team had two top 10 players and alot of really good pieces around it. Your point is what?


----------



## Minstrel

I'm getting sick of the word "ballhawk." Soon, Dirk Nowitzki will be a "ballhawk" in this dreamworld being constructed.

Of course, when Dallas does nothing of interest *again*, droppinknowledge will either be long gone or have switched user names.

And talking about the "ship" Dallas is sure to win the following year.


----------



## Hibachi!

This guy is clearly dropping something other than knowledge... I can name many a PG better than JT, and here I go

J Kidd
Bibby
Nash
Cassell
Baron
Stephon
Billups
Andre Miller
Tony Parker

Then after that there are no good pg's left... So to be number 10 in the NBA right now aint all that spiffy... BTW... Just for your info, Bibby averaged more PPG, more APG, better shooting percentage, and less Turnover Per game... And Bibby is the third option on his team, while JT is the number one option. But yeah, I guess JT is better than Bibby right?


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Are you really trying to compare Sam Cassell's career to Erick Dampier? Oh my goodness...


nope but your logic is stupid. There are plenty of players who have deserved to be on the allstar team and didn't make it because the fans choose the starters and then the coaches have to FILL OUT THE REST of the team. 

Dampier could have went to the allstar game last year. His stats were good enough. They were better than maglories in the east (who made it)

Yao was VOTED on. you can't leave shaq off the team.


cassell has always been allstar worthy but he aint make it. So by your flawed logic that means that guys like Francis are better than cassell because they start in the allstar game every year which is stupid


----------



## HKF

Does anyone besides droppinknowledge feel that Dampier (on a losing team, he didn't help them win squat), deserved to make the all-star team over Yao, Brad Miller and Shaq? 

I mean honestly.


----------



## Hibachi!

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> shaq and yao. The team is only required to have 2 centers. yao got voted on even though dampier had a much better season. cassell didn't make an allstar game until last year. I guess that mean he sucked all his previous years too huh? :laugh:


BTW, why don't you gimme a quick little reminder as to another Center that made the All Star Game... His last name is Miller... His first name is Brad...


----------



## Jay-Ballin

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> yao is'nt that strong. He has no stamina. Dampier is strong as an ox and have even held his own with shaq and been effective keeping out of the lane. plus the mavs can bring in other guys to use to defend ya. once yao gets in foul trouble then what?
> 
> Kobe and Shaq are top five in the nba. That's all they needed. Then surrounded with a great coach and the right type of team they won. But they also lost in the postseason and got swept by th ejazz twice before they won.
> 
> I mean Shaq and Penny were just as good as penny and kobe and that magic team was full of more talent than that lakers team. meant nothing. That team had two top 10 players and alot of really good pieces around it. Your point is what?


So if being as "strong as an ox" makes you a good player, then what about Jerome James? I know Dampier is good but he doesn't have the potential that Yao does nor does he have the skills. 

My point is, that you cannot claim the Mavs have a better lineup than the Rockets because they have advantages (in your opinion) in more positions. Some advantages I think are pretty miniscule anyway like Jimmy Jackson and Finley.


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> HILARIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [email protected] and ward and lue better than terry harris and dickau. that's HILARIOUS
> 
> [email protected] BEING top15.
> 
> Houston had 3 of the 50 greatest players in nba history a few years back. I wonder what happened to that teams title hopes. :laugh:


Oh, so Yao isn't top 15?? He is the 2nd best Center in the league and not top 15? :laugh: 

What has Terry done it the league, lead the Hawks to the playoffs ever? He never even got them close in fact. Harris is still a rookie. How many rookies have come in a contributed right away? Answer: Not many. Has Dickau even played 20 mins combined last season? Houston has experienced point guards. 2 of which have been to the Finals, Ward and Lue.

:laugh: Well, Houston won 2 championships, how many has Dallas won? This doesn't even have anything to do with the debate.

Houston doesn't have all-stars at every position but we have what we need. Experience around our young duo. Dallas learned last year that stockpiling talent doesn't get you anywhere.


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> This guy is clearly dropping something other than knowledge... I can name many a PG better than JT, and here I go
> 
> J Kidd
> Bibby
> Nash
> Cassell
> Baron
> Stephon
> Billups
> Andre Miller
> Tony Parker
> 
> Then after that there are no good pg's left... So to be number 10 in the NBA right now aint all that spiffy... BTW... Just for your info, Bibby averaged more PPG, more APG, better shooting percentage, and less Turnover Per game... And Bibby is the third option on his team, while JT is the number one option. But yeah, I guess JT is better than Bibby right?



parker? miller?

parker put up 15 points and 6 boards in a CAREER YEAR

terry put up 17 and 5 in a DOWN YEAR

Miller put up

14 and 6


Terry wasn't the number 1 option on the team last year. Stephen Jackson was. Crawford had some monster games and so did sura. 

Plus bibby has the benefit of playing with peja, webber, christie miller and jackson.

None of terry's teammates are on that level nor do they draw double teams. Terry has been in "nba hell" his entire career. 

just like the other guy said. Bibby wasn't even top 10 when he played on a "bad team" (grizz) but the instant he joins the kings he gets noticed. 

I gurantee the same thing will happen with terry


----------



## Drewbs

> Originally posted by <b>J Blaze</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh, so Yao isn't top 15?? He is the 2nd best Center in the league and not top 15? :laugh:
> 
> What has Terry done it the league, lead the Hawks to the playoffs ever? He never even got them close in fact. Harris is still a rookie. How many rookies have come in a contributed right away? Answer: Not many. Has Dickau even played 20 mins combined last season? Houston has experienced point guards. 2 of which have been to the Finals, Ward and Lue.
> 
> :laugh: Well, Houston won 2 championships, how many has Dallas won? This doesn't even have anything to do with the debate.
> 
> Houston doesn't have all-stars at every position but we have what we need. Experience around our young duo. Dallas learned last year that stockpiling talent doesn't get you anywhere.


but in all honesty, Sura is NOT better than Terry. He did look good at the end of last year when the Hawks were sick of it all and decided to take the rest of the season off and Sura packed up his stats.

Yes houston has won 2 championships... close to 10 years ago.


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Jay-Ballin</b>!
> 
> 
> So if being as "strong as an ox" makes you a good player, then what about Jerome James? I know Dampier is good but he doesn't have the potential that Yao does nor does he have the skills.
> 
> My point is, that you cannot claim the Mavs have a better lineup than the Rockets because they have advantages (in your opinion) in more positions. Some advantages I think are pretty miniscule anyway like Jimmy Jackson and Finley.


[email protected] jimmy jax being NEAR fin. that's hilarious man. maybe when jax was IN HIS PRIME on ht emavs.


LOL let's not compare and james. You're "reaching" so now we're ranking peeps based on "potential right?"

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the mavs have a better starting lineup than the mavs

They OWN THEM AT PF, SF, AND PG

anyone with half a brain can see that


----------



## Jay-Ballin

> Originally posted by <b>J Blaze</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh, so Yao isn't top 15?? He is the 2nd best Center in the league and not top 15? :laugh:
> 
> What has Terry done it the league, lead the Hawks to the playoffs ever? He never even got them close in fact. Harris is still a rookie. How many rookies have come in a contributed right away? Answer: Not many. Has Dickau even played 20 mins combined last season? Houston has experienced point guards. 2 of which have been to the Finals, Ward and Lue.
> 
> :laugh: Well, Houston won 2 championships, how many has Dallas won? This doesn't even have anything to do with the debate.
> 
> Houston doesn't have all-stars at every position but we have what we need. Experience around our young duo. Dallas learned last year that stockpiling talent doesn't get you anywhere.


Agreed, JBlaze has successfully explained why the Rockets lineup has the potential to dominate the Mavs.


----------



## Hibachi!

O and another thing

99-00 : 8ppg 6rpg

00-01 : 7ppg 6rpg

01-02 : 8ppg 5rpg

02-03 : 8ppg 6rpg

CONTRACT YEAR : 12ppg 12rpg 

Coincidence? I'm not trying to degrade Dampier or anything but you are making him out to be this dominant force that changes you into a contender....


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>J Blaze</b>!
> 
> 
> Oh, so Yao isn't top 15?? He is the 2nd best Center in the league and not top 15? :laugh:
> 
> What has Terry done it the league, lead the Hawks to the playoffs ever? He never even got them close in fact. Harris is still a rookie. How many rookies have come in a contributed right away? Answer: Not many. Has Dickau even played 20 mins combined last season? Houston has experienced point guards. 2 of which have been to the Finals, Ward and Lue.
> 
> :laugh: Well, Houston won 2 championships, how many has Dallas won? This doesn't even have anything to do with the debate.
> 
> Houston doesn't have all-stars at every position but we have what we need. Experience around our young duo. Dallas learned last year that stockpiling talent doesn't get you anywhere.


did bibby lead the grizzlies anywhere when he was there? Did odom lead the clippers anywhere when he wsa there? 

So now because ward and lue have been to the nba finals then that makes them better than terry and harris right? :laugh: 

LET'S USE YOUR LOGIC THEN

if that's the case then devean george is the BEST SF in the nba cause he has 3 nba championship rings. :uhoh:


----------



## Hibachi!

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> [email protected] jimmy jax being NEAR fin. that's hilarious man. maybe when jax was IN HIS PRIME on ht emavs.
> 
> 
> LOL let's not compare and james. You're "reaching" so now we're ranking peeps based on "potential right?"
> 
> LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the mavs have a better starting lineup than the mavs
> 
> They OWN THEM AT PF, SF, AND PG
> 
> *anyone with half a brain can see that *


Yeah, you barely make the cut...


----------



## Hibachi!

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> did bibby lead the grizzlies anywhere when he was there? Did odom lead the clippers anywhere when he wsa there?
> 
> So now because ward and lue have been to the nba finals then that makes them better than terry and harris right? :laugh:
> 
> LET'S USE YOUR LOGIC THEN
> 
> if that's the case then devean george is the BEST SF in the nba cause he has 3 nba championship rings. :uhoh:


Funny, I never remember you mentioning this great Jason Terry before... Where did this praise all of a sudden come from?


----------



## Jay-Ballin

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> [email protected] jimmy jax being NEAR fin. that's hilarious man. maybe when jax was IN HIS PRIME on ht emavs.
> 
> 
> LOL let's not compare and james. You're "reaching" so now we're ranking peeps based on "potential right?"
> 
> LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the mavs have a better starting lineup than the mavs
> 
> They OWN THEM AT PF, SF, AND PG
> 
> anyone with half a brain can see that


I have a full brain so I can't see that. If I do remember correctly, Yao had one of his best NBA career games against the Mavs so don't start telling me they can stop him.


----------



## HKF

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, you barely make the cut...


:rofl:


----------



## Drewbs

> Originally posted by <b>Jay-Ballin</b>!
> 
> 
> Agreed, JBlaze has successfully explained why the Rockets lineup has the potential to dominate the Mavs.


No he hasn't. FWIW, there is also the potential that the Tmac and Yao combo may flop. It is a bit early to decide who is going to dominate who.


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>Drewbs</b>!
> 
> 
> but in all honesty, Sura is NOT better than Terry. He did look good at the end of last year when the Hawks were sick of it all and decided to take the rest of the season off and Sura packed up his stats.
> 
> Yes houston has won 2 championships... close to 10 years ago.


Show me where I said Sura is better than Terry. I said Houston PG's all put together is better than Dallas'. I never said Terry was better. If you're going to try to argue against me and then quote me, make sure you get it right and know what I mean.


----------



## HKF

> Originally posted by <b>Drewbs</b>!
> 
> 
> No he hasn't. FWIW, there is also the potential that the Tmac and Yao combo may flop. It is a bit early to decide who is going to dominate who.


So if the potential is there for Yao and T-Mac to flop, why isn't the potential there for Stackhouse to be a cancer and Dampier to mail-it-in now that he has a big contract?


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Does anyone besides droppinknowledge feel that Dampier (on a losing team, he didn't help them win squat), deserved to make the all-star team over Yao, Brad Miller and Shaq?
> 
> I mean honestly.


brad miller and dampier could have been chosen.

Yao's numbers weren't as good as millers OR DAMPIERS last year. He was VOTED on as a starter last year. He was gonna make the team regardless. 

So now a player being on a losing team decides whether he should be an allstar?

why was vince an allstar then? His team didn't go anywhere did they? oh yea! the fans voted him on. 

being selected as an allstar really does mean anything. It's a popularity contest


the fact that cassell wasn't an allstar before last year (even though he should have been) is proof of that


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> [email protected] jimmy jax being NEAR fin. that's hilarious man. maybe when jax was IN HIS PRIME on ht emavs.
> 
> 
> LOL let's not compare and james. You're "reaching" so now we're ranking peeps based on "potential right?"
> 
> LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the mavs have a better starting lineup than the mavs
> 
> They OWN THEM AT PF, SF, AND PG
> 
> anyone with half a brain can see that


Ummm, you said Dallas was better than Houston at Center. You going back on that? Changing it now? Stick to your story. :laugh:


----------



## Drewbs

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> So if the potential is there for Yao and T-Mac to flop, why isn't the potential there for Stackhouse to be a cancer and Dampier to mail-it-in now that he has a big contract?


Of course there is the potential for that. I'm basiaclly saying, there is no way to say that a team will simply dominate another when the season hasn't started. Well actually Stackhouse was a cancer anyway, Mavs fans already know that.


----------



## Jay-Ballin

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> So if the potential is there for Yao and T-Mac to flop, why isn't the potential there for Stackhouse to be a cancer and Dampier to mail-it-in now that he has a big contract?


Yeah, the previous big men for Dallas (Lafrentz and Fortson) didn't really fit the system either so we'll see how Dampier does.


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> So if the potential is there for Yao and T-Mac to flop, why isn't the potential there for Stackhouse to be a cancer and Dampier to mail-it-in now that he has a big contract?


:yes: 

Drewbs, yes there is a chance either could flop but is there a bigger chance that Yao Ming is going to start hogging the ball and not passing. Tracy McGrady will start doing the same after publicly saying he will defer to Yao many times.

Or

Stackhouse will get injured again and become a team cancer like he has been known for. Dampier will go back to playing as he has for all the other years, other than contract years, that he has been known to do by many experts?

Which is more likely?


----------



## RP McMurphy

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> Yeah, you barely make the cut...


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>J Blaze</b>!
> 
> 
> Show me where I said Sura is better than Terry. I said Houston PG's all put together is better than Dallas'. I never said Terry was better. If you're going to try to argue against me and then quote me, make sure you get it right and know what I mean.



LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cmon man. you're reaching. No way in hell are sura, ward and lue better than terry, harris and dickau

you're reaching.

Oh they've been to nba finals. 

So has mark madsen but does that mean he's better than dirk nowitski? that logic is just not smart


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Jay-Ballin</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, the previous big men for Dallas (Lafrentz and Fortson) didn't really fit the system either so we'll see how Dampier does.


since when is raef a big man who plays in the post like dampier? he hangs out around the perimeter most of the time. Fortson is 6 7. he's a wide body but he's not tall enough to defend centers. that's a reach


----------



## Drewbs

Wow, what an active topic. Whatever teh case, the Mavs will most likely be better this year than they were last year.


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>J Blaze</b>!
> 
> 
> Ummm, you said Dallas was better than Houston at Center. You going back on that? Changing it now? Stick to your story. :laugh:


Originally posted by droppinknowledge!





Dampier/booth/Dj/Bradley (even)
Dirk (advantage mavs)
fin/howard (advantage mavs)
daniels/stack (advantage rockets)
terry/harris/dickau (advantage mavs)



i said it was even. next debater PLEASE!


----------



## HKF

SacKings, I see rawse is rubbing off on you. Classic. :rofl: 

I wish ArtestFan didn't quote it again. Had me laughing my butt off.


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> O and another thing
> 
> 99-00 : 8ppg 6rpg
> 
> 00-01 : 7ppg 6rpg
> 
> 01-02 : 8ppg 5rpg
> 
> 02-03 : 8ppg 6rpg
> 
> CONTRACT YEAR : 12ppg 12rpg
> 
> Coincidence? I'm not trying to degrade Dampier or anything but you are making him out to be this dominant force that changes you into a contender....



YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG 
96-97 POR 45 0 10.2 .451 .000 .603 .90 1.90 2.80 .2 .04 .58 .60 1.00 4.1 
97-98 POR 60 9 13.5 .485 .000 .506 1.30 2.00 3.40 .3 .25 .97 .92 1.70 4.5 
98-99 POR 36 1 8.6 .434 .000 .514 1.20 1.50 2.70 .4 .11 .39 .39 1.10 2.5 
99-00 POR 70 8 12.3 .486 .000 .582 1.40 1.90 3.30 .3 .16 .79 .67 1.80 3.9 
00-01 IND 81 80 32.6 .465 .000 .601 3.10 6.70 9.80 1.2 .60 2.81 1.99 3.50 12.9 


i wonder whose stats that could be.......


----------



## Jay-Ballin

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> Originally posted by droppinknowledge!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dampier/booth/Dj/Bradley (even)
> Dirk (advantage mavs)
> fin/howard (advantage mavs)
> daniels/stack (advantage rockets)
> terry/harris/dickau (advantage mavs)
> 
> 
> 
> i said it was even. next debater PLEASE!


Well it ain't even.


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Jay-Ballin</b>!
> 
> 
> Well it ain't even.


actually it is. 


the production the mavs will generate from their center spot will be damn near equal to what the rockets get.


Can you say that about the pf spot? nope

the sf spot? nope

the pg spot? nope


even the sg spot will be closer than yall make it out to be

Plus the rockets can't defend anyone now. tmac sux defensively, yao is ok defensively. Howard sux defensively. Sura sux defensively. jackson is solid. But you left that out huh


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cmon man. you're reaching. No way in hell are sura, ward and lue better than terry, harris and dickau
> 
> you're reaching.
> 
> Oh they've been to nba finals.
> 
> So has mark madsen but does that mean he's better than dirk nowitski? that logic is just not smart


Ohhh, my bad you said they were even. Still, they *AREN'T* even. Yao is better than anything Dallas can throw out there.

Why though?? Explain to me *WHY* Terry, Harris (rookie), Dickau (what has he done) is better? Give me something here other than they just will be?

Dirk is a star player. He would be the person to lead his team to the playoffs. Lue and Ward are *roleplayers* who would perform their role and contribute to THOSE *star* players to get the team to the Finals. Houston isn't asking those 2 to change what they were doing and lead Houston to the Finals. We're asking them to continue doing what they were doing to get the other 2 teams to the Finals. See the difference?


----------



## HKF

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
> 96-97 POR 45 0 10.2 .451 .000 .603 .90 1.90 2.80 .2 .04 .58 .60 1.00 4.1
> 97-98 POR 60 9 13.5 .485 .000 .506 1.30 2.00 3.40 .3 .25 .97 .92 1.70 4.5
> 98-99 POR 36 1 8.6 .434 .000 .514 1.20 1.50 2.70 .4 .11 .39 .39 1.10 2.5
> 99-00 POR 70 8 12.3 .486 .000 .582 1.40 1.90 3.30 .3 .16 .79 .67 1.80 3.9
> 00-01 IND 81 80 32.6 .465 .000 .601 3.10 6.70 9.80 1.2 .60 2.81 1.99 3.50 12.9
> 
> 
> i wonder whose stats that could be.......


You clown. Now you are comparing a HS player to superstar, in Jermaine O'Neal to a lazy bum to serviceable in a contract year, Erick Dampier. 

Just stop it.


----------



## Jay-Ballin

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
> 96-97 POR 45 0 10.2 .451 .000 .603 .90 1.90 2.80 .2 .04 .58 .60 1.00 4.1
> 97-98 POR 60 9 13.5 .485 .000 .506 1.30 2.00 3.40 .3 .25 .97 .92 1.70 4.5
> 98-99 POR 36 1 8.6 .434 .000 .514 1.20 1.50 2.70 .4 .11 .39 .39 1.10 2.5
> 99-00 POR 70 8 12.3 .486 .000 .582 1.40 1.90 3.30 .3 .16 .79 .67 1.80 3.9
> 00-01 IND 81 80 32.6 .465 .000 .601 3.10 6.70 9.80 1.2 .60 2.81 1.99 3.50 12.9
> 
> 
> i wonder whose stats that could be.......


Jermaine O'neal had a break out year after being BEHIND RASHEED WALLACE for his career in Portland. Dampier has had the chance to display his skills in GS since he came to the team, he just never did anything until it came time to make money.


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> You clown. Now you are comparing a HS player to superstar, in Jermaine O'Neal to a lazy bum to serviceable in a contract year, Erick Dampier.
> 
> Just stop it.


:yes: :laugh:


----------



## Jay-Ballin

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> actually it is.
> 
> 
> the production the mavs will generate from their center spot will be damn near equal to what the rockets get.
> 
> 
> Can you say that about the pf spot? nope
> 
> the sf spot? nope
> 
> the pg spot? nope
> 
> 
> even the sg spot will be closer than yall make it out to be
> 
> Plus the rockets can't defend anyone now. tmac sux defensively, yao is ok defensively. Howard sux defensively. Sura sux defensively. jackson is solid. But you left that out huh


So if I add up all the stats of players playing center for the mavs, I will get equal production to Yao. 

Ok then both teams are equal at PF. We can add production from Howard, Taylor and Weatherspoon. I'm sure thats enough to equal the production of Dirk. Come on man, your logic is way off.


----------



## Drewbs

Yao is better than Dampier. 

BUT...

If Dallas keeps to their running game, the Rockets may struggle against them. Yao's endurance is terrible. Even during the game against Spain, he could not even run downcourt by halftime. The Mavs are younger and more athletic, they will simply run circles around Yao Ming. Of cuorse the Rockets could still make up for it in different ways. But when Yao is off the floor, they struggle, but when he came off, Cato played defense and rebounded despite being an offensive liability. The Rockets are paper thin at the 4 and 5 spots.


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>Jay-Ballin</b>!
> 
> 
> So if I add up all the stats of players playing center for the mavs, I will get equal production to Yao.
> 
> Ok then both teams are equal at PF. We can add production from Howard, Taylor and Weatherspoon. I'm sure thats enough to equal the production of Dirk. Come on man, your logic is way off.


Also true. We're waiting D_Knowledge.


----------



## HKF

> Originally posted by <b>Drewbs</b>!
> Yao is better than Dampier.
> 
> BUT...
> 
> If Dallas keeps to their running game, the Rockets may struggle against them. Yao's endurance is terrible. Even during the game against Spain, he could not even run downcourt by halftime. The Mavs are younger and more athletic, they will simply run circles around Yao Ming. Of cuorse the Rockets could still make up for it in different ways. But when Yao is off the floor, they struggle, but when he came off, Cato played defense and rebounded despite being an offensive liability. The Rockets are paper thin at the 4 and 5 spots.


Look I feel in a playoff series that Dallas would win over Houston if everyone played to their potential and both teams were cohesive, but these definitive statements either way, when the season hasn't started doesn't make any sense. Off-season movement, still isn't over.


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>Drewbs</b>!
> Yao is better than Dampier.
> 
> BUT...
> 
> If Dallas keeps to their running game, the Rockets may struggle against them. Yao's endurance is terrible. Even during the game against Spain, he could not even run downcourt by halftime. The Mavs are younger and more athletic, they will simply run circles around Yao Ming. *Of cuorse the Rockets could still make up for it in different ways.*


You just disproved your own argument. The best way to keep a team from running is to take good high % shots and make them. If Houston is hitting their shots, it would be extremely hard for Dallas to run. Too many if's for this argument of, running the Rockets tired, to work.


----------



## Drewbs

As for Juwan Howard, his numbers look nice and all but if you have watched the guy, he is a cancer, much like Glenn Robinson. If the Rockets are looking at him to restrain Nowtizki, Dirk is gonna have a field day when it comes to playing Houston.

Ok, Stackhouse is a cancer too, but he most likely won't get too much PT or will be traded.


----------



## Jay-Ballin

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> Look I feel in a playoff series that Dallas would win over Houston if everyone played to their potential and both teams were cohesive, but these definitive statements either way, when the season hasn't started doesn't make any sense. Off-season movement, still isn't over.


I'm still curious to see how the Mavs do without Steve Nash. Terry is a good player but I don't see him fitting in the same shoes as Nash did. This may alter Dallas' entire game.


----------



## HKF

Remember cancers to a team don't have to be on the court to affect the team morale. They can be in street clothes, griping to the media, griping about minutes, shots, bags of doritos on the team planes. 

Stackhouse has that high volatility like some liquid nitrogen.


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>Drewbs</b>!
> As for Juwan Howard, his numbers look nice and all but if you have watched the guy, he is a cancer, much like Glenn Robinson. If the Rockets are looking at him to restrain Nowtizki, Dirk is gonna have a field day when it comes to playing Houston.
> 
> Ok, Stackhouse is a cancer too, but he most likely won't get too much PT or will be traded.


He may be a team cancer true. But we're not asking him to come in here and lead the team. We're just asking him to hit his open shots and get those 8, or maybe more, rebounds he averages. Robinson was asked to come in there and contribute points to Philadelphia and he didn't do very well and didn't seem very distraught that he didn't do it. In the same sense, no one on Dallas can stop Yao, only Yao can stop himself. No one on Dallas can stop Tracy McGrady either but your own logic.


----------



## MarioChalmers

Wow! This is... something else... I never thought Dallas would land Dampier. IMO they're now the favorites in the west. They have one of the best starting lineups in the league as well as an awesome bench.


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Remember cancers to a team don't have to be on the court to affect the team morale. They can be in street clothes, griping to the media, griping about minutes, shots, bags of doritos on the team planes.
> 
> Stackhouse has that high volatility like some liquid nitrogen.


That's true and since when was Howard in street clothes griping to the media about minutes, shots, doritos etc.? It's entirely possible it could happen but I doubt it personally. Stackhouse has a much higher probability than Howard.


----------



## J Blaze

Wow, this thread jumped like 7 pages in 30 minutes. :laugh:


----------



## RunTMC

While you're posting Dampier's stats, make sure you post the minutes he got and the number of games played too. Alot of people are overblowing Dampier's production jump. I can say with confidence I watch more GS games than anyone posting here and have seen Dampier play more than anyone else. 

Adonal Foyle's solid play and injuries have limited Dampier's minutes and production every year except last season. He was never fully healthy from his knee problems until 2 seasons ago, and Adonal Foyle was playing well enough to deserve significant minutes. The flat out truth is that Dampier was hands down one of the 5 best centers in the league last year - third in my opinion. You can argue why until you're blue in the face, but the fact remains that he DID make a significant impact last year and was the Warrior's best player.

One last point: as for everyone talking about it being a contract year, it actually wasn't considered a contract year until midway through last season. Why? Because it was actually an option year - he had two years at over 8 per remaining - and it was a virtual lock that he wouldn't opt out until he had the phenomenal year that he did. It was only through his great season that it was viably "a contract year."


----------



## Drewbs

> Originally posted by <b>J Blaze</b>!
> 
> 
> In the same sense, no one on Dallas can stop Yao, only Yao can stop himself. No one on Dallas can stop Tracy McGrady either but your own logic.


Of course no one in Dallas can stop Tmac, I still think Josh howard can slow him down, as for Yao, I think Dampier can slow him down as well. I could not care less about his production on offense, but he can be a defensive presence when he wants to be. If Yao becomes more aggressive inside, he will still put up nice numbers. Anyway, as of right now, I find the Rockets, Mavericks and Kings are all pretty equal, probably witht he Kings clinching the division title adn 3rd seed and the Mavs and Rockets battleing it out for the 4th seed.


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>RunTMC</b>!
> While you're posting Dampier's stats, make sure you post the minutes he got and the number of games played too. Alot of people are overblowing Dampier's production jump. I can say with confidence I watch more GS games than anyone posting here and have seen Dampier play more than anyone else.
> 
> Adonal Foyle's solid play and injuries have limited Dampier's minutes and production every year except last season. He was never fully healthy from his knee problems until 2 seasons ago, and Adonal Foyle was playing well enough to deserve significant minutes. The flat out truth is that Dampier was hands down one of the 5 best centers in the league last year - third in my opinion. You can argue why until you're blue in the face, but the fact remains that he DID make a significant impact last year and was the Warrior's best player.
> 
> One last point: as for everyone talking about it being a contract year, it actually wasn't considered a contract year until midway through last season. Why? Because it was actually an option year - he had two years at over 8 per remaining - and it was a virtual lock that he wouldn't opt out until he had the phenomenal year that he did. It was only through his great season that it was viably "a contract year."


I already know this but what centers was Dampier behind?


----------



## HKF

Look it boils down to this. If Dampier was a top 5 Center, why hasn't the Warriors sniffed the playoffs?

Top 5 Centers usually make their teammates better. I mean let's call a spade a spade. He is a good serviceable center and that's if, he can prove last year wasn't a fluke.


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>Drewbs</b>!
> 
> 
> Of course no one in Dallas can stop Tmac, I still think Josh howard can slow him down, as for Yao, I think Dampier can slow him down as well. I could not care less about his production on offense, but he can be a defensive presence when he wants to be. If Yao becomes more aggressive inside, he will still put up nice numbers. Anyway, as of right now, I find the Rockets, Mavericks and Kings are all pretty equal, probably witht he Kings clinching the division title adn 3rd seed and the Mavs and Rockets battleing it out for the 4th seed.


That is fine. I'll agree with you. The Rockets and Mavericks can be battling it out for the 4th seed. We'll see how it turns out.


----------



## RP McMurphy

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
> 96-97 POR 45 0 10.2 .451 .000 .603 .90 1.90 2.80 .2 .04 .58 .60 1.00 4.1
> 97-98 POR 60 9 13.5 .485 .000 .506 1.30 2.00 3.40 .3 .25 .97 .92 1.70 4.5
> 98-99 POR 36 1 8.6 .434 .000 .514 1.20 1.50 2.70 .4 .11 .39 .39 1.10 2.5
> 99-00 POR 70 8 12.3 .486 .000 .582 1.40 1.90 3.30 .3 .16 .79 .67 1.80 3.9
> 00-01 IND 81 80 32.6 .465 .000 .601 3.10 6.70 9.80 1.2 .60 2.81 1.99 3.50 12.9
> 
> 
> i wonder whose stats that could be.......


Huh? Jermaine O'Neal's contract year was 99-00, and he didn't do crap that year. He broke out in 00-01 which was the year AFTER he signed an extension. We're talking about guys who have a career year in a contract year, what does Jermaine O'Neal have to do with that?

By the way, I remember you making another series of highly brilliant posts like this one, the last time the Mavs made a big trade in August. How'd that turn out?


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Look it boils down to this. If Dampier was a top 5 Center, why hasn't the Warriors sniffed the playoffs?
> 
> Top 5 Centers usually make their teammates better. I mean let's call a spade a spade. He is a good serviceable center and that's if, he can prove last year wasn't a fluke.


Co-sign.

Where'd D_Knowledge go?


----------



## Damian Necronamous

Damn.


----------



## RunTMC

> I already know this but what centers was Dampier behind?


Shaq and Yao, obviously.

The others I think are debatable would be:

Magloire
Ilgauskas
Ratliff
edit: Brad Miller

And, depending on what position you think some players are, you could include guys like Ben Wallace.


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>RunTMC</b>!
> 
> 
> Shaq and *Yao*, obviously.
> 
> The others I think are debatable would be:
> 
> Magloire
> Ilgauskas
> Ratliff
> 
> And, depending on what position you think some players are, you could include guys like Ben Wallace.


Ok, thank you. Just wanted to know.


----------



## Drewbs

Whatever the case, the top teams in the west are more competive. Its going to be a battlefield out there. The Pistons and Pacers are going to have a cakewalk of a season playing teams like the Celtics and Raptors 4 times a year compared to the teams in the stacked west. But that doesn't if they can deliver come playoff time.


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>Drewbs</b>!
> Whatever the case, the top teams in the west are more competive. Its going to be a battlefield out there. The Pistons and Pacers are going to have a cakewalk of a season playing teams like the Celtics and Raptors 4 times a year compared to the teams in the stacked west.


:yes: Especially the Texas Triangle. It is brutal down here. :boxing:


----------



## HKF

I can't believe got suckered into making so many posts on this damn thread. 

I should have known I was arguing with Merc_Cuban. :uhoh:


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> I can't believe got suckered into making so many posts on this damn thread.
> 
> I should have known I was arguing with Merc_Cuban. :uhoh:


:laugh: 

We all got suckered my friend, we all got suckered.


----------



## RunTMC

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Look it boils down to this. If Dampier was a top 5 Center, why hasn't the Warriors sniffed the playoffs?
> 
> Top 5 Centers usually make their teammates better. I mean let's call a spade a spade. He is a good serviceable center and that's if, he can prove last year wasn't a fluke.


Ilgauskas is arguably a top 5 center, played with Lebron James and Carlos Boozer, and played in the East and didn't sniff the playoffs. Theo Ratliff, Jamal Magloire, etc. There are a lot of good centers, hell good players that don't make the playoffs. Elton Brand and Ray Allen come to the top of my mind right now. Basketball is a team game. Other than Yao and Shaq, there are no centers that can single handedly carry a team. That doesn't mean Dampier wasn't an impact player and a top 5 center though.


----------



## RP McMurphy

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> I can't believe got suckered into making so many posts on this damn thread.
> 
> I should have known I was arguing with Merc_Cuban. :uhoh:


It took you this long, to figure out who he was?


----------



## HKF

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> 
> 
> It took you this long, to figure out who he was?


I had forgot about his nonsensical rantings for the longest time. Now whenever I see some raving lunatic talking bout the Mavs, I will know it's him.


----------



## Drewbs

Merc_Cuban?


----------



## Hibachi!

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> SacKings, I see rawse is rubbing off on you. Classic. :rofl:
> 
> I wish ArtestFan didn't quote it again. Had me laughing my butt off.


:twave:


----------



## The_Franchise

> Originally posted by <b>Drewbs</b>!
> Yes houston has won 2 championships... close to 10 years ago.


We have a smart GM and a great owner who knows how to build championship teams. Management has had alot to do with our franchise success over the years. Our signings are sensible and geared towards winning a championship (We struggle with PG's though... Maloney, Norris). We also stick with our players for the most part. Dallas has no regard for their players or what they have done for the team, they try to stack up the big names with offensive artillery and hope everything falls together.

2003-04 Mavs backcourt FG% last season
Nash - .470
Walker - .428
Jamison - *.535*

2004-05 Mavs backcourt FG% last season
Terry - .417
Stackhouse - .399

Dampier is going to help them out alot on the post, I see him making some big defensive stops and hitting the boards hard to initiate the break, but this new Dallas team just can't hit shots like the old team could. Unless Nowitzki blows up, they won't make it past the 1st round.


----------



## RunTMC

First, Houston management hasn't been anything special lately. The Norris and Taylor signings seriously held back the franchise. Their success is mostly due to the fact they lucked into Yao, and Tmac practically negotiated the deal to Houston himself to play with Yao.

Moving on, since when was Jamison ever a guard and part of anyone's backcourt? Or Walker for that matter?


----------



## RP McMurphy

> Originally posted by <b>RunTMC</b>!
> First, Houston management hasn't been anything special lately. The Norris and Taylor signings seriously held back the franchise. Their success is mostly due to the fact they lucked into Yao, and Tmac practically negotiated the deal to Houston himself to play with Yao.


:yes:

Don't forget their Three-Past-Their-Prime-Hall-of-Famers project that went nowhere.


----------



## jokeaward

Merc_Cuban it is!!!

I particularly liked his massive romp and rant that got him banned. It was edited but quoted in a later post! It was funny in a somewhat sad way.


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>RunTMC</b>!
> First, Houston management hasn't been anything special lately. The Norris and Taylor signings seriously held back the franchise. Their success is mostly due to the fact they lucked into Yao, and Tmac practically negotiated the deal to Houston himself to play with Yao.
> 
> Moving on, since when was Jamison ever a guard and part of anyone's backcourt? Or Walker for that matter?


First, Houston's management has gotten us Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady. No matter how we got them, bottom line is we got them. McGrady didn't choose Indiana or another team that has a dominant big man, he chose Houston because he said, "Houston is a class organization and knows what it takes to win championships". That is roughly what he said. Chicago was lucky Jordan was as good as he was, did they know how good he was going to be? So we had a bad year and got the #1 pick? That's true for many teams. 

Secondly, Tracy basicly negotiated the trade by himself but *WHY* did choose Houston is the question. The answer is above like I said.



> Don't forget their Three-Past-Their-Prime-Hall-of-Famers project that went nowhere.


They were past their primes but they still made it to the Western Conference Finals and provided Houston with exciting Basketball. How many other franchises had the opportunity Houston had with the 3 Hall of Famers on the same team? Not many. *looks at sig* Though, I wish that ******* Scottie would have went elsewhere. :upset: :laugh:


----------



## Scinos

Hilarious thread, there were some real gems in here. I'm just disappointed I wasn't here to LMAO first hand at some of this stuff.

Anyway, I think Damp will be ok for Dallas. I don't think he's going to completely flop, but his numbers will be down IMO. Maybe 9 ppg and 8 rpg. He improves Dallas, but better than Yao ? taking Dallas to the 'ship' ? :nonono:

Now the other topics (for merc_cuban)...

- Jason Terry isn't that good. He's not better than Bibby and he's not a pure point. I think he will be fine in a NVE role where he can freelance and take the shots he wants. But he isn't close to guys like Bibby or Nash in efficiency. He has less assists, more turnovers and a much lower FG %. I think you'll be disappointed if you expect him to be better than those guys next season.

- Steals/Blocks don't always mean good defense... 

- LMAO at comparing his numbers to Jermaine O'Neal. Damp is 30, not an emerging 22 year old high school talent.


----------



## RP McMurphy

> Originally posted by <b>J Blaze</b>!
> They were past their primes but they still made it to the Western Conference Finals and provided Houston with exciting Basketball. How many other franchises had the opportunity Houston had with the 3 Hall of Famers on the same team? Not many. *looks at sig* Though, I wish that ******* Scottie would have went elsewhere. :upset: :laugh:


I was talking about the Hakeem-Barkley-Pippen Rockets, not the Hakeem-Barkley-Drexler Rockets. The Hakeem-Barkley-Pippen Rockets got their butts kicked in the first round.

By the way, here was merc_cuban's crazy rant that got him banned. :laugh:



> the mavs would still be fine. They had several guys out that series. Dog seriously. You're a smug pathetic **** who thinks that just because he's a mod he can babble irrelevant shyt to peeps and acts like he's the god of bball cause he mods a board on the internet. Wow whooptie doo. big [edit] deal. No one cares. You're nothing man. you post nothing but condescending opinions cause you can cause you're a mod then get mad when peeps do the same [edit] to you. You're not that bright. you have no bball knowledge. You're a joke. Guys like you make me laugh. you prolly never even see a bball court. You've prolly never even played a game other than at the rec or boys club. You weren't recruited. You aint done nuffin but of course you know everything cause you're a mod on bballboards.net. now i'm done talking to you. a nything you say to me will be blowing in the wind cause you don't have nothing to say any wayz. just run ya mouth and talk [edit] all day


----------



## RunTMC

> First, Houston's management has gotten us Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady. No matter how we got them, bottom line is we got them. McGrady didn't choose Indiana or another team that has a dominant big man, he chose Houston because he said, "Houston is a class organization and knows what it takes to win championships". That is roughly what he said. Chicago was lucky Jordan was as good as he was, did they know how good he was going to be? So we had a bad year and got the #1 pick? That's true for many teams.
> 
> Secondly, Tracy basicly negotiated the trade by himself but WHY did choose Houston is the question. The answer is above like I said.


Houston succeeded despite their management, not because of it. There's a big difference.

And McGrady said the main reason he wanted to play for Houston was Yao. The rest is just *** kissing his new team.



> He improves Dallas, but better than Yao ? taking Dallas to the 'ship'


Not that I think Dampier will take Dallas to a championship, however, Dallas had a lot more talent than Houston to begin with, so he doesn't need to be better than Yao to make them more of a contender than Houston, or take them to a championship.


----------



## HKF

ArtestFan, you and BEEZ my two favorite posters at bumping stuff up. My goodness.

:rofl::rofl:


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> 
> 
> I was talking about the Hakeem-Barkley-Pippen Rockets, not the Hakeem-Barkley-Drexler Rockets. The Hakeem-Barkley-Pippen Rockets got their butts kicked in the first round.
> 
> By the way, here was merc_cuban's crazy rant that got him banned. :laugh:


what was the point of that? To start drama? Why is ok for mods to do instigate and cause probs with peeps and have no repercussions for their actions. I mean you actually save crap from last year? how pathetic


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> 
> 
> Huh? Jermaine O'Neal's contract year was 99-00, and he didn't do crap that year. He broke out in 00-01 which was the year AFTER he signed an extension. We're talking about guys who have a career year in a contract year, what does Jermaine O'Neal have to do with that?
> 
> By the way, I remember you making another series of highly brilliant posts like this one, the last time the Mavs made a big trade in August. How'd that turn out?


and I recall you saying the pacers would win it all. I wonder what happened..........................:uhoh:


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Jay-Ballin</b>!
> 
> 
> Jermaine O'neal had a break out year after being BEHIND RASHEED WALLACE for his career in Portland. Dampier has had the chance to display his skills in GS since he came to the team, he just never did anything until it came time to make money.


no he didn't. his minutes were always limited. the point is what he did 4 years ago don't matter. you could say that early on in their careers kobe, tmac, kg, nash, etc etc weren't as good as they are now. But the instant someone on the mavs puts on a unit it's wrong


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Drewbs</b>!
> Yao is better than Dampier.
> 
> BUT...
> 
> If Dallas keeps to their running game, the Rockets may struggle against them. Yao's endurance is terrible. Even during the game against Spain, he could not even run downcourt by halftime. The Mavs are younger and more athletic, they will simply run circles around Yao Ming. Of cuorse the Rockets could still make up for it in different ways. But when Yao is off the floor, they struggle, but when he came off, Cato played defense and rebounded despite being an offensive liability. The Rockets are paper thin at the 4 and 5 spots.


same can be said about mutumbo (if the rockets get them) the mavs have like 4 servicable big men that can produce. yao is all on his own. 24 fouls are alot more than 6


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Jay-Ballin</b>!
> 
> 
> So if I add up all the stats of players playing center for the mavs, I will get equal production to Yao.
> 
> Ok then both teams are equal at PF. We can add production from Howard, Taylor and Weatherspoon. I'm sure thats enough to equal the production of Dirk. Come on man, your logic is way off.


so youre telling me that juwan, taylor and weathersppoon can go for 40 plus on any given night?


cmon man that's a joke and you know it. No one is gonna trade Dirk for howard, taylor and weatherspoon 

you're sitting up here saying that lue, sura and ward= the mavs backcourt. that's hilarious. Dirk is a top 10 player. None of those guys are even top 50 in the league


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>RunTMC</b>!
> While you're posting Dampier's stats, make sure you post the minutes he got and the number of games played too. Alot of people are overblowing Dampier's production jump. I can say with confidence I watch more GS games than anyone posting here and have seen Dampier play more than anyone else.
> 
> Adonal Foyle's solid play and injuries have limited Dampier's minutes and production every year except last season. He was never fully healthy from his knee problems until 2 seasons ago, and Adonal Foyle was playing well enough to deserve significant minutes. The flat out truth is that Dampier was hands down one of the 5 best centers in the league last year - third in my opinion. You can argue why until you're blue in the face, but the fact remains that he DID make a significant impact last year and was the Warrior's best player.
> 
> One last point: as for everyone talking about it being a contract year, it actually wasn't considered a contract year until midway through last season. Why? Because it was actually an option year - he had two years at over 8 per remaining - and it was a virtual lock that he wouldn't opt out until he had the phenomenal year that he did. It was only through his great season that it was viably "a contract year."


none of this matters man. dampier is a maverick. he instantly sux now. Just like nash did until he left for the suns. now he's thier "saviour"


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Look it boils down to this. If Dampier was a top 5 Center, why hasn't the Warriors sniffed the playoffs?
> 
> Top 5 Centers usually make their teammates better. I mean let's call a spade a spade. He is a good serviceable center and that's if, he can prove last year wasn't a fluke.



if odom is as good as yall make him out to be why aint he made the playoffs

elton brand?

etc etc. You could say that about alot of players. One man doesn't lead a team anywhere. that argument is pointless


----------



## Hov

Good move for the Mavs. They basically gave up nobody for him.

Hopefully Dampier had his best year last year.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> if odom is as good as yall make him out to be why aint he made the playoffs


I thought that he made the playoffs last season with Miami.


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> I had forgot about his nonsensical rantings for the longest time. Now whenever I see some raving lunatic talking bout the Mavs, I will know it's him.


nonsense? what have you backed your opinions up with? You have no stats to support any of your arguments. I have backed mine up. Suckering peeps into not knowing it's me? Please. Why would I do that? I'm not the only guy in here defending the mavs and speaking on em. It's funny though. You guys can't win debates so you talk nonsense


----------



## The_Franchise

> Originally posted by <b>RunTMC</b>!
> First, Houston management hasn't been anything special lately. The Norris and Taylor signings seriously held back the franchise. Their success is mostly due to the fact they lucked into Yao, and Tmac practically negotiated the deal to Houston himself to play with Yao.


We may have "lucked" into Yao, but then again we were unlucky with Eddie Griffin. Steve Francis wanted out of Vancouver so Dawson provided a path out for him. He didn't bring us much success, but we got him for Michael Dickerson. 

Moochie Norris holding us back? The guy gets $3 million a year, he isn't going to hold back any franchise. Allan Houston, Brian Grant, Grant Hill... these are guys who have held back their franchises. Plus he earned that contract, constantly slashing hard to the basket, Moochie looked fearless back in the day. After he got his contract he flat out sucked... but that could even happen to Dampier.

As for Taylor, I don't think it was one of the worst signings. He was coming off a big year and we really needed a PF for the future at the time. Unfortunately he was riddled by injury in the following years but look at how he performed last year. A nominee for 6th man of the year, shooting 48% and averaging 11.5 ppg off the bench. He may be a defensive liability but his offensive talent is unquestionable. I don't think this has held us back. 



> Moving on, since when was Jamison ever a guard and part of anyone's backcourt? Or Walker for that matter?


I included Jamison and Walker because they play SF alongside Dirk. The point is Terry and Stackhouse have never been great jump shooters, they will struggle to incorporate themselves into Nellyball. Terry is a perimeter threat, so he'll fare off much better. I'm not convinced he can run the Dallas Mavericks though. Stackhouse is not the type of guy I see taking a backseat in the offense. He likes to have plays made for him, or isolate. Howard can't make 15 footers either.



> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> Don't forget their Three-Past-Their-Prime-Hall-of-Famers project that went nowhere.


We put up a good show though.


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>DaUnbreakableKinG</b>!
> 
> 
> I thought that he made the playoffs last season with Miami.


that was before he moved to a good team. A team that already had a few pieces in place and was in an extremely weak conference. But when he was on the clippers his team went no where. 

This is terry's first shot at being on a good team

Same with dampier. yet they suck cause their teams aint made the playoffs? that makes no sense


----------



## Snicka

:cheers: 

To Kool-Aid, for which this thread is possible.


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Ming Bling</b>!
> 
> 
> We may have "lucked" into Yao, but then again we were unlucky with Eddie Griffin. Steve Francis wanted out of Vancouver so Dawson provided a path out for him. He didn't bring us much success, but we got him for Michael Dickerson.
> 
> Moochie Norris holding us back? The guy gets $3 million a year, he isn't going to hold back any franchise. Allan Houston, Brian Grant, Grant Hill... these are guys who have held back their franchises. Plus he earned that contract, constantly slashing hard to the basket, Moochie looked fearless back in the day. After he got his contract he flat out sucked... but that could even happen to Dampier.
> 
> As for Taylor, I don't think it was one of the worst signings. He was coming off a big year and we really needed a PF for the future at the time. Unfortunately he was riddled by injury in the following years but look at how he performed last year. A nominee for 6th man of the year, shooting 48% and averaging 11.5 ppg off the bench. He may be a defensive liability but his offensive talent is unquestionable. I don't think this has held us back.
> 
> 
> 
> I included Jamison and Walker because they play SF alongside Dirk. The point is Terry and Stackhouse have never been great jump shooters, they will struggle to incorporate themselves into Nellyball. Terry is a perimeter threat, so he'll fare off much better. I'm not convinced he can run the Dallas Mavericks though. Stackhouse is not the type of guy I see taking a backseat in the offense. He likes to have plays made for him, or isolate. Howard can't make 15 footers either.
> 
> 
> 
> We put up a good show though.



lol you act like howard is on this team for offense. You act like the mavs still don't have dirk, fin and daniels for offense. terry is a streak shooter. just like nve. He can score from the perimeter. stack adds another dimension to this team. you can't have all shooters and no slashers. But no matter what the mavs do it's wrong. Their moves to improve (even getting a big man that peeps said they should go for) now sucks. dampier is now the worst center in the league cause he's on the mavs. *shrugs*


----------



## Damian Necronamous

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> Don't forget their Three-Past-Their-Prime-Hall-of-Famers project that went nowhere.


While you're at it, don't forget the other two as well.

:verysad: :verysad: :verysad:


----------



## RP McMurphy

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> and I recall you saying the pacers would win it all. I wonder what happened..........................:uhoh:


Um, I never even said the Pacers would win the East, so you're wrong again. It is possible to be a fan of a team, without being a ridiculous homer like you.


----------



## DaUnbreakableKinG

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> 
> 
> that was before he moved to a good team. A team that already had a few pieces in place and was in an extremely weak conference. But when he was on the clippers his team went no where.
> 
> This is terry's first shot at being on a good team
> 
> Same with dampier. yet they suck cause their teams aint made the playoffs? that makes no sense


I don't think they'll suck. I think that they're going to be a pretty good team. They'll at least go to playoffs.


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> 
> 
> Um, I never even said the Pacers would win the East, so you're wrong again. It is possible to be a fan of a team, without being a ridiculous homer like you.


lol! it's funny man. All year yall say th emavs should get a big man. The mavs should get dampier. Then they get them and yo urank their team 8th. no matter what they do yall hate. I think yall mad cause the mavs have a great owner willing to make moves to make his team better while your teams do nothing. It's funny though. glad you wen tall out to find that pic. SHoulda found one of him with a beer in his hand though.


----------



## The_Franchise

> Originally posted by <b>RunTMC</b>!
> Houston succeeded despite their management, not because of it. There's a big difference.


How is this possible? Robert Horry, Sam Cassell were those draft day mistakes? Was Clyde Drexler a mistake? Recruiting JVG to coach a mistake? We aren't throwing out millions upon millions at Derek Fisher and Adonal Foyle, no need to be bitter.



> Not that I think Dampier will take Dallas to a championship, however, Dallas had a lot more talent than Houston to begin with, so he doesn't need to be better than Yao to make them more of a contender than Houston, *or take them to a championship.*


Talent doesn't equal wins. This Dallas team is so revamped, I have to see them play before I make any bold predictions such as them getting into the 2nd round, let alone the finals.


----------



## RunTMC

> We may have "lucked" into Yao, but then again we were unlucky with Eddie Griffin. Steve Francis wanted out of Vancouver so Dawson provided a path out for him. He didn't bring us much success, but we got him for Michael Dickerson.
> 
> Moochie Norris holding us back? The guy gets $3 million a year, he isn't going to hold back any franchise. Allan Houston, Brian Grant, Grant Hill... these are guys who have held back their franchises. Plus he earned that contract, constantly slashing hard to the basket, Moochie looked fearless back in the day. After he got his contract he flat out sucked... but that could even happen to Dampier.
> 
> As for Taylor, I don't think it was one of the worst signings. He was coming off a big year and we really needed a PF for the future at the time. Unfortunately he was riddled by injury in the following years but look at how he performed last year. A nominee for 6th man of the year, shooting 48% and averaging 11.5 ppg off the bench. He may be a defensive liability but his offensive talent is unquestionable. I don't think this has held us back.


No, see, luck is something that happens you have no control over. Houston's management DEFINITELY had control when they selected Griffin. They didn't have anything to do with Yao falling into their laps.

Second, notice I said the Norris AND Taylor signings held the franchise back (and Moochie makes 4m btw). I didn't say one or the other. Combined, that was what, 12m a year for garbage production. That tends to hold a franchise back when your management blows a quarter of its cap for several years on garbage.



> I included Jamison and Walker because they play SF alongside Dirk. The point is Terry and Stackhouse have never been great jump shooters, they will struggle to incorporate themselves into Nellyball. Terry is a perimeter threat, so he'll fare off much better. I'm not convinced he can run the Dallas Mavericks though. Stackhouse is not the type of guy I see taking a backseat in the offense. He likes to have plays made for him, or isolate. Howard can't make 15 footers either.


Uh, and Jamison and Walker are jumpshooters? Right. If anything, Terry and Stackhouse are _better_ jumpshooters than Jamison and Walker.


----------



## FanOfAll8472

> Originally posted by <b>RunTMC</b>!
> While you're posting Dampier's stats, make sure you post the minutes he got and the number of games played too. Alot of people are overblowing Dampier's production jump. I can say with confidence I watch more GS games than anyone posting here and have seen Dampier play more than anyone else.
> 
> Adonal Foyle's solid play and injuries have limited Dampier's minutes and production every year except last season. He was never fully healthy from his knee problems until 2 seasons ago, and Adonal Foyle was playing well enough to deserve significant minutes. The flat out truth is that Dampier was hands down one of the 5 best centers in the league last year - third in my opinion. You can argue why until you're blue in the face, but the fact remains that he DID make a significant impact last year and was the Warrior's best player.
> 
> One last point: as for everyone talking about it being a contract year, it actually wasn't considered a contract year until midway through last season. Why? Because it was actually an option year - he had two years at over 8 per remaining - and it was a virtual lock that he wouldn't opt out until he had the phenomenal year that he did. It was only through his great season that it was viably "a contract year."


I live out here in the Bay Area (watch almost every W's game for a long time) and I have to sort of agree with you. And sort of disagree with you. Damp's worst year (besides rookie year), has not surprisingly come in Foyle's best year. However, I do agree with others here that Damp's big stat jump is more due to him being in his contract year than anything. Damp is a career underachiever. It's taken him a full 6 years, to produce, and the year he produces, it's his contract year. This and the JO case are different because JO not only came straight out of HS but sat behind DD and 'Sheed. I remember he received constant praise just never cracked the rotation behind a title contending team.



> and I recall you saying the pacers would win it all. I wonder what happened..........................:uhoh:


Great comeback. Good job changing the subject.



> Shaq and Yao, obviously.
> 
> The others I think are debatable would be:
> 
> Magloire
> Ilgauskas
> Ratliff
> edit: Brad Miller
> 
> And, depending on what position you think some players are, you could include guys like Ben Wallace.


BTW, no way I would put Magloire and Miller behind Damp. Just MHO.


----------



## Chalie Boy

I just read this whole thread and im convinced that the mavs are the most hated team on the board. At first I thought it was the Lakers but it is the mavs. First we need a center when we get one there is a new excuse. Losing Nash hurts, but a lot of people criticized his d and rightfully so now that he is gone he is God and we will be able to do nothing without him :uhoh:


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Chalie Boy</b>!
> I just read this whole thread and im convinced that the mavs are the most hated team on the board. At first I thought it was the Lakers but it is the mavs. First we need a center when we get one there is a new excuse. Losing Nash hurts, but a lot of people criticized his d and rightfully so now that he is gone he is God and we will be able to do nothing without him :uhoh:



you aint know? The mavs suck regardless of what they do and all their fans are idiots. that's jus thow it is


----------



## FanOfAll8472

> Originally posted by <b>Chalie Boy</b>!
> I just read this whole thread and im convinced that the mavs are the most hated team on the board. At first I thought it was the Lakers but it is the mavs. First we need a center when we get one there is a new excuse. Losing Nash hurts, but a lot of people criticized his d and rightfully so now that he is gone he is God and we will be able to do nothing without him :uhoh:


I don't see how the Lakers can't be the most hated team on the board. A lot of people just don't think Dampier is much to jump up and down about. A good chunk of us feel he'll go back to underachieving now that he has a nice contract.

Don't forget, when an outrageous homer comes along and starts pumping his team like it's 15 Jesus Christ's, people won't exactly start loving the team (or player).


----------



## RunTMC

> How is this possible? Robert Horry, Sam Cassell were those draft day mistakes? Was Clyde Drexler a mistake? Recruiting JVG to coach a mistake? We aren't throwing out millions upon millions at Derek Fisher and Adonal Foyle, no need to be bitter.
> 
> Talent doesn't equal wins. This Dallas team is so revamped, I have to see them play before I make any bold predictions such as them getting into the 2nd round, let alone the finals.


Reading comprehension is key. Notice how I said management hasn't been special LATELY? Draft picks 15 years ago don't really fall under that category. And what the hell does the fact that my favorite team also happens to have ****ty management have to do with anything? I guess if I were you I wouldn't really want to argue the actual subject matter either, but why dont we try? Houston's management hasn't been that great lately. GET OVER IT.

If you can't admit that take away Dampier and Yao that Dallas is more talented than Houston, you're a homer, plain and simple. Talent doesn't equal wins? WTF kind of statement is that.


----------



## The_Franchise

> Originally posted by <b>RunTMC</b>!
> No, see, luck is something that happens you have no control over. Houston's management DEFINITELY had control when they selected Griffin. They didn't have anything to do with Yao falling into their laps.


The RJ+others for Griffin trade was considered a great trade by ALL scouts and sports journalists at the time. We were talking about a projected top 3 pick.



> Second, notice I said the Norris AND Taylor signings held the franchise back (and Moochie makes 4m btw). I didn't say one or the other. Combined, that was what, 12m a year for garbage production. That tends to hold a franchise back when your management blows a quarter of its cap for several years on garbage.


Moochie started out around $3 million, he only makes $3.8 this year after the contract increases. Please tell me how you came to assumption that Mo Taylor is garbage... he is a vital part to this team and if you combine his production with the 6 years he has been in this league, I wouldn't say he is very overpaid. How much would he of fetched this offseason if he was a FA?



> Uh, and Jamison and Walker are jumpshooters? Right. If anything, Terry and Stackhouse are _better_ jumpshooters than Jamison and Walker.


Walker is erratic, you can't classify him as anything. And alot of the Dallas game was Jamison pulling up and hitting those 10-15 footers. Jamison and Nash both shot very high percentages and when you have players like Terry and Stackhouse throwing up bricks from 15 ft then it really hurts the fast flowing offense that Dallas showcases.


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>RunTMC</b>!
> 
> 
> Houston succeeded despite their management, not because of it. There's a big difference.
> 
> And McGrady said the main reason he wanted to play for Houston was Yao. The rest is just *** kissing his new team.
> 
> 
> 
> Not that I think Dampier will take Dallas to a championship, however, Dallas had a lot more talent than Houston to begin with, so he doesn't need to be better than Yao to make them more of a contender than Houston, or take them to a championship.


:laugh: So where did you find that Houston succeeded despite their management? Or is that your opinion? Who has ever said that because no one from Houston has. And that is the most important place. Houston succeeded because Houston's management consistently brings in the right people for Houston to succeed. Add onto that we drafted Robery Horry, Sam Cassell, Cuttino Mobley, Vernon Maxwell, etc. Yeah, Houston's management is horrible.

Yes, McGrady's main reason for coming to Houston was Yao Ming. But Houston's management that has won 2 championships also went into the fold whereas Indiana, Phoenix and some other places haven't won any lately. He wasn't *** kissing, he was stating the truth. Dallas had MUCH more talent than Houston last year and we both ended up getting eliminated in the 1st round. Houston made upgrades and filled in the appropriate spots that we needed. If you think we're going into next season without a backup C, you're crazy. We will get one soon and our roster will be set. Talent alone doesn't get you anywhere. Houston also has a better coach, so you also have to factor that into the equation.


----------



## Tersk

Hopefully Dampier season wasnt just for a contract and i pray to God that he keeps it up


----------



## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Ming Bling</b>!
> 
> 
> The RJ+others for Griffin trade was considered a great trade by ALL scouts and sports journalists at the time. We were talking about a projected top 3 pick.
> 
> 
> 
> Moochie started out around $3 million, he only makes $3.8 this year after the contract increases. Please tell me how you came to assumption that Mo Taylor is garbage... he is a vital part to this team and if you combine his production with the 6 years he has been in this league, I wouldn't say he is very overpaid. How much would he of fetched this offseason if he was a FA?
> 
> 
> 
> Walker is erratic, you can't classify him as anything. And alot of the Dallas game was Jamison pulling up and hitting those 10-15 footers. Jamison and Nash both shot very high percentages and when you have players like Terry and Stackhouse throwing up bricks from 15 ft then it really hurts the fast flowing offense that Dallas showcases.


LOL Nve plays just like terry. Did he affect the "fast flowing offense?" stack is a slasher. How will he slow done the offense? Man you guys got one billion excuses for why the mavs suck. First they shouldnt have gotten jamison last year. Now he's their mvp let you tell it


----------



## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>RunTMC</b>!
> 
> 
> Reading comprehension is key. Notice how I said management hasn't been special LATELY? Draft picks 15 years ago don't really fall under that category. And what the hell does the fact that my favorite team also happens to have ****ty management have to do with anything? I guess if I were you I wouldn't really want to argue the actual subject matter either, but why dont we try? Houston's management hasn't been that great lately. GET OVER IT.
> 
> If you can't admit that take away Dampier and Yao that Dallas is more talented than Houston, you're a homer, plain and simple. Talent doesn't equal wins? WTF kind of statement is that.


That's the whole point. You *DON'T* take away Yao. Yao brings an inside presence that, when you look at history, inside-out ball will win more games than running. *THAT'S* the reason we don't need as much "talent". And he was right. Talent *DOESN'T* equal wins. Talent + coaching + execution + many other factors = wins. Not just talent.


----------



## HKF

This thread is the best thread on BBB.net (pertaining to basketball) that I have read since the season ended. 

I laughed, I cried, I got angry, I saw good points and interaction and then I laughed some more.


----------



## The_Franchise

> Originally posted by <b>RunTMC</b>!
> Reading comprehension is key. Notice how I said management hasn't been special LATELY? Draft picks 15 years ago don't really fall under that category. And what the hell does the fact that my favorite team also happens to have ****ty management have to do with anything? I guess if I were you I wouldn't really want to argue the actual subject matter either, but why dont we try? Houston's management hasn't been that great lately. GET OVER IT.


Because we traded Glen Rice and future draft picks to sign Jim Jackson? Because we traded for Tracy McGrady? Or signed Bob Sura and Charlie Ward to very reasonable contracts? Or managed to get rid of Moochie Norris and pick up Clarence Weatherspoon, a much needed presence on the boards and although overpaid has been twice as effective as Moochie was? What exactly have we been doing wrong.



> If you can't admit that take away Dampier and Yao that Dallas is more talented than Houston, you're a homer, plain and simple. *Talent doesn't equal wins? WTF kind of statement is that.*


The 02-03 Clippers had Elton Brand, Andre Miller, Lamar Odom, Corey Maggette and Quentin Richardson. They won 27 games... if that's not talent I don't know what is.


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## RunTMC

> The RJ+others for Griffin trade was considered a great trade by ALL scouts and sports journalists at the time. We were talking about a projected top 3 pick.


Top 3 pick? Actually, he was considered a lock for the 5th pick ironically to GS of all places. And speaking of being bitter, that Jason Richardson guy we picked instead of Griffin worked out a little better for us, don't you think?



> Moochie started out around $3 million, he only makes $3.8 this year after the contract increases. Please tell me how you came to assumption that Mo Taylor is garbage... he is a vital part to this team and if you combine his production with the 6 years he has been in this league, I wouldn't say he is very overpaid. How much would he of fetched this offseason if he was a FA?


And how many years and at how much does Moochie have left? Oh right.

You're actually going to try and defend the Taylor signing, amazing. And your reasoning for why? Because a lot of other players got overpaid this offseason. Great reasoning.



> So where did you find that Houston succeeded despite their management? Or is that your opinion? Who has ever said that because no one from Houston has. And that is the most important place. Houston succeeded because Houston's management consistently brings in the right people for Houston to succeed. Add onto that we drafted Robery Horry, Sam Cassell, Cuttino Mobley, Vernon Maxwell, etc. Yeah, Houston's management is horrible.


Yes, it's my opinion. Other than a quoted statistic, everything on this message board is opinion. But let's run down what exactly management has done:

positive:
drafted Mobley
brought in JVG

negative:
blew the griffin trade/pick
moochie norris
mo taylor

These are the direct things they've done. Honestly, if Yao hadn't landed into their laps, I really don't see how they would have made the playoffs last season or in the near future at least.



> Walker is erratic, you can't classify him as anything. And alot of the Dallas game was Jamison pulling up and hitting those 10-15 footers. Jamison and Nash both shot very high percentages and when you have players like Terry and Stackhouse throwing up bricks from 15 ft then it really hurts the fast flowing offense that Dallas showcases.


No, Jamison doesn't shoot 10-15 foot jumpshots. He has a flipshot near the basket he uses, and occasionally spots up for threes. He doesn't have a 15 foot jumpshot. As for the other stuff, I never argued they wouldn't miss them, so why are you bringing it up? I said Jamison and Walker aren't guards and aren't jumpshooters. Reading. It's fundamental.


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## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>RunTMC</b>!
> 
> And how many years and at how much does Moochie have left? Oh right.


Is Moochie still on the team? Right...



> Yes, it's my opinion. Other than a quoted statistic, everything on this message board is opinion. But let's run down what exactly management has done:
> 
> positive:
> drafted Mobley
> brought in JVG
> 
> negative:
> blew the griffin trade/pick
> moochie norris
> mo taylor


Add to the positive, drafted Yao Ming and traded for McGrady. So in hindsight, the positive outweigh the negatives no matter if he landed in our laps or not. My point about the management issue is that you haven't provided any real proof. Our team's management have had their bad signings and their good signings. I believe many team's would kill to trade their signing's with ours considering where we are *RIGHT NOW.*



> These are the direct things they've done. Honestly, if Yao hadn't landed into their laps, I really don't see how they would have made the playoffs last season or in the near future at least.


Again, what is your point? Houston's management was lucky with some signing's but that belittles what they have accomplished looking at the team right now? If you feel that way then that's on you.


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## The_Franchise

> Originally posted by <b>RunTMC</b>!
> Top 3 pick? Actually, he was considered a lock for the *5th pick* ironically to GS of all places. And speaking of being bitter, that Jason Richardson guy we picked instead of Griffin worked out a little better for us, don't you think?


Well then it's pretty amazing how the Rockets, with the 14th pick, ended up with him.



> And how many years and at how much does Moochie have left? Oh right.


This is becoming redundant.



> You're actually going to try and defend the Taylor signing, amazing. And your reasoning for why? Because a lot of other players got overpaid this offseason. Great reasoning.


I said it before, I'll say it again: He provides us with much needed consistency on the offensive end. He keeps us in the game down the stretch when Yao is double teamed and has been on the floor for each Rocket comeback last seaosn. I don't see how he has held us back, atleast we are getting 6MOY type production out of this money. No where near garbage. 



> These are the direct things they've done. Honestly, if Yao hadn't landed into their laps, I really don't see how they would have made the playoffs last season or in the near future at least.


Well then... can't we say the Spurs and Cavs are lucky for having TD and LeBron "fall" into their laps?



> No, Jamison doesn't shoot 10-15 foot jumpshots. He has a flipshot near the basket he uses, and occasionally spots up for threes. He doesn't have a 15 foot jumpshot. As for the other stuff, I never argued they wouldn't miss them, so why are you bringing it up? I said Jamison and Walker aren't guards and aren't jumpshooters. Reading. It's fundamental.


The point I'm trying to make is that Dallas' FG% and flow will suffer with Terry and Stackhouse, as opposed to having Nash, Jamison and Walker (did great around the basket last year).


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## J Blaze

Ming Bling, I want to steal your avatar.....:laugh:


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## Scinos

> Originally posted by <b>droppinknowledge</b>!
> LOL Nve plays just like terry. Did he affect the "fast flowing offense?" stack is a slasher. How will he slow done the offense? Man you guys got one billion excuses for why the mavs suck. First they shouldnt have gotten jamison last year. Now he's their mvp let you tell it


I said that Terry would be fine playing a NVE role, coming off the bench and being a scoring spark. But unless more moves are made, Terry is going to have to take Nash's role as the starting PG, which I don't think he will be good at. 

Nash was very efficient. 47% FG, over 40% from 3, around 8-9 apg and few turnovers. You don't think Terry is going to struggle to replace him ?


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## J Blaze

> Originally posted by <b>Scinos</b>!
> 
> 
> *I said that Terry would be fine playing a NVE role, coming off the bench and being a scoring spark. But unless more moves are made, Terry is going to have to take Nash's role as the starting PG*, which I don't think he will be good at.
> 
> Nash was very efficient. 47% FG, over 40% from 3, around 8-9 apg and few turnovers. You don't think Terry is going to struggle to replace him ?


Very important to add.


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## pr0wler

Marquis Daniels can play point guard.


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## zeebneeb

The trade is a good one for Dallas, but they HAVE TO PLAY DEFENSE TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.


It all comes down to that one simple point. If They play "d" in the big "D" They can win. If not, well, we all know what Dallas has done in the past...


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## Greg Ostertag!

The only greater-than equation that matters is:

Underachieving Erick Dampier > anything that the Mavs have had at center for years

Sure, they may not become world-beaters, but they'll be a far better team than last year. I don't like to use the term 'hater', but I don't see any alternative in this instance...


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## MemphisX

I just don't understand. Dallas is supposed to have less talent than last season? Did anyone watch Harris this summer? Has anyone watched Jason Terry in his career? I think they get a push at PG because Nash was asked to play 40 minutes last year and when he ran out of gas, Daniels was running the point the last 1/4 of the season And Nash was playing SG. They add Dampier a very good center and have 2 good backup centers behind him.

PG Terry/Harris
SG Daniels/Stackhouse/Stef
SF Finley/Howard
PF Dirk/Henderson
C Dampier/Booth/Bradley

IR: Dickau, DJ, Wahad

This team will be real good. Deep, versatile, and experienced. Also Jason Terry and Jerry Stackhouse's contract is a perfect swap for Jason Kidd. Dig that...


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## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>Scinos</b>!
> 
> 
> I said that Terry would be fine playing a NVE role, coming off the bench and being a scoring spark. But unless more moves are made, Terry is going to have to take Nash's role as the starting PG, which I don't think he will be good at.
> 
> Nash was very efficient. 47% FG, over 40% from 3, around 8-9 apg and few turnovers. You don't think Terry is going to struggle to replace him ?



point taken. But you have to remember. The mavs before this year were built around FINLEY. now they are being built around dirk. terry, harris and dickau will be FINE running the point for the mavs. The mavs had a MAJOR prob at pg last year whenever nash got hurt or left the game. they won't have that prob this year cause they have 3 guys capable of running the offense without turning the ball over like daniels did alot in the playoffs last year cause he's not a true pg.


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## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>pr0wler</b>!
> Marquis Daniels can play point guard.


not really. He turns the ball over too much cause he's not a true pg. He "can" play there if necessary or to create matchup probs but his turnovers would still be high


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## droppinknowledge

> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> I just don't understand. Dallas is supposed to have less talent than last season? Did anyone watch Harris this summer? Has anyone watched Jason Terry in his career? I think they get a push at PG because Nash was asked to play 40 minutes last year and when he ran out of gas, Daniels was running the point the last 1/4 of the season And Nash was playing SG. They add Dampier a very good center and have 2 good backup centers behind him.
> 
> PG Terry/Harris
> SG Daniels/Stackhouse/Stef
> SF Finley/Howard
> PF Dirk/Henderson
> C Dampier/Booth/Bradley
> 
> IR: Dickau, DJ, Wahad
> 
> This team will be real good. Deep, versatile, and experienced. Also Jason Terry and Jerry Stackhouse's contract is a perfect swap for Jason Kidd. Dig that...


yep but I don't know if the mavs will make that move now cause it'll really really hurt their depth. All depends on how kidd's knee holds up


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## JRose5

Not a bad move for Dallas. I highly doubt Dampier is the man that 'puts Dallas over the top', but he's bound to end up better then Danny Fortson..

As far as Houston vs. Dallas, I don't see one havin the clear cut advantage over the other. They should both make the playoffs, although I don't see either of them making too big of waves, but who knows. They're both different teams from last year, so I may end up being surprised.

I don't hold Jason Terry very highly, but I think Harris is going to be pretty solid.. I'll be keeping my eye on him, coming out of the Big 10.

The only other thing that stuck with me in this thread is the claim of even production out of the center position.. I really don't see that happening.


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## mavsman

I think I will finally chime in here.

I liked this Mavs team before this trade. Now they will have the inside presence for which everyone has been clamering for a long time. This is now a solid team. They have a great mix of young guys and more veteran guys. They are deep and talented.

Is there any doubt that this will be a better defensive team? Not in my mind.

I am thrilled with the point guard position:

Jason Terry - Says he is true point guard and given the chance will show that he can be a great one. I think he is a great fit in the Mavs offense. He's great on the pick and roll, a staple of the Mavs 1/2 court offense. He is a better defender than Nash. We know he is an explosive scorer.

Devin Harris - The most NBA ready point guard in the draft. He showed in Summer league that he is going to be a special player. He is in the perfect situation. He does not have to be the guy this year so he can just do what Howard and Daniels did last year and come in with little pressure.

SG/SF

Finley, Daniels, Howard, Stackhouse - Wow, we are loaded at these two positions. We have solid scoring and defenders. 

PF

Dirk, Henderson - Dirk is a top 6-7 player in the league and the heart of this team. I think this year will be Dirk trying to reassert himself after last year deferring too much to the new guys. Henderson will only be giving Dirk a breather if he is not traded for another PF before the season starts.

C

Dampier, Boothe, Bradley, MBenga, Podkolzine

All of a sudden we don't look so bad at Center. I think its going to be a surprise how much better the Mavs are on defense with some solid shot blockers backing up the guys defending on the perimeter. I have been saying that if you have a guy in the middle to back you up you don't have to cheat off your man anymore and you make it tougher to hit those outside jumpers.

At 19 years old they will send Podkolzine to Europe for another year.

The other 4 will make the Mavs better at Center than they have been since James Donaldson. 

All and all, this is a team with loads of potential. It remains to be seen how well they all gel together but there is no denying that this team is going to be a serious contender in the West.


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## LionOfJudah

I'm looking forward to this season more now than ever. We have improved our D at every spot except the 4. We still have plenty of scoring but we don't have to worry about blowing leads like the Mavs would do last year.

I'm not going to come out and say we're the best team in the West but I will say we have the players to battle with the best of the West. 

Spurs, Twolves, Kings, Mavs, Rockets, Nuggets, Lakers, Grizzlies, seem to all be in the mix this up coming season. I honestly couldn't say who's going to come out on top either. Too many changes in the west to even guess IMO. 

Oh and about Stack, I don't even think he's been to Dallas yet. He's probably not going to be here once the season stars so I don't think he'll be a cancer... or atleast to the Mavs he won't be.


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## Drewbs

> Originally posted by <b>Ming Bling</b>!
> Walker is erratic, you can't classify him as anything. And alot of the Dallas game was Jamison pulling up and hitting those 10-15 footers. Jamison and Nash both shot very high percentages and when you have players like Terry and Stackhouse throwing up bricks from 15 ft then it really hurts the fast flowing offense that Dallas showcases.


Ok this is just plain wrong. You are completely forgetting about Michael Finley. Along with Dirk, Fin was probably the 2nd main scorer on the team. Most of the plays were made for him and Dirk. Walker hardly ever shot the 15 foot jumper, but did occasionally step out to the 3 point area where is wasn't very good. His field goal percentage comes off from put backs and layups. Jamison almost NEVER had a play drawn up for him. His game was NEVER to take the 15 foot jumper, if you think so, you haven't watched Dallas play. His game is to move without the ball making backdoor cuts for easy layups, offensive rebounds and put backs. He will take a jumpshot if he is open though, but most of his scoring is in the post. Anyway... Stackhouse will most likely not be starting. If he isn't traded, then he will be playing behind Finley and Howard. It doesn't matter that he can't shoot because both of them can.


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## Amareca

Erick Dampier = Calvin Booth Part II

How is he going to help Dallas? They were one of the top 3 rebounding teams already and Dampier's teams always were bad teams with good rebounding and horrible defensively.


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## Drewbs

He helps because he plays defense, he is tough and strong and can hold his own against centers and big men out in hte west. Anything is better than what the Mavericks had at center last season. It is not just him that makes the Mavs better. They are more balanced in general, last season, they had a logjam of offensive players and no defense at all. Now htey have a balance of both, kind of like hte Timberwolves.


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## Real McCoy

C'mon Big Amare.

In Dallas' 4 out -1 in offense, Dampier will have room to operate and thus should continue to play defense and grab offensive rebounds. Now it is very likely that he doesn't give his all and it completely blows up in the Mavs faces. However, there is an equal chance that he performs now that he is on a winning team. If Dampier gives them 12 and 12, with 2.5 bpg, then it's very likely that the Mavs are in the WCF's.


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## mavsman

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Erick Dampier = Calvin Booth Part II
> 
> How is he going to help Dallas? They were one of the top 3 rebounding teams already and Dampier's teams always were bad teams with good rebounding and horrible defensively.


How does Dampier help Dallas? Did you really just ask that question.

Are you in shock or some sort of denial?

I realize that you were expecting/hoping that the Suns may have passed the Mavericks in the West but simply denying that Dampier is going to help the Mavericks will not make it true.

Dampier is not Shaq but he is a good Center in this league and for the Mavs to go from no Center to a top 5-10 Center will make a huge difference. I just don't see how any rational person could claim otherwise. Whether it is enough to put the Mavs over the top remains to be seen but come on, he will certainly help them in the most glaring spot on the team.


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## RunTMC

> Erick Dampier = Calvin Booth Part II
> 
> How is he going to help Dallas? They were one of the top 3 rebounding teams already and Dampier's teams always were bad teams with good rebounding and horrible defensively.


That's not hard to do when you average nearly 5 possessions more per game than any other team and nearly 10 more than the average team. More possessions means more rebounding opportunities. Also despite starting Nick Van Exel, Jason Richardson and Mike Dunleavy, three below average to terrible defenders, GS was only a slightly below average defensive team, and a large reason why was Dampier.


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## LionOfJudah

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Erick Dampier = Calvin Booth Part II
> 
> How is he going to help Dallas? They were one of the top 3 rebounding teams already and Dampier's teams always were bad teams with good rebounding and horrible defensively.


Don't be bitter since your Suns are slowly but surely looking to be out of the Playoff race. :laugh:

Calvin Booth Part I or Part II is on par (if not better) with the Suns have at the 5 so don't talk too much ish about em.


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