# The 2015-2016 Kobe Bryant Thread



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Kobe Bryant is an all-time Top-10 player in basketball.
Kobe Bryant is arguably the greatest Laker player ever.

But let's face it: THAT Kobe Bryant is gone. Long gone. To the point that Kobe's play is now arguably detrimental to the team. 

So, this thread is for your thoughts regarding Kobe Bryant this season (probably his last playing season).


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

Its hard to see. Especially concerning his mindset. Honestly I think the injuries did him in more than father time. He isn't the same. regardless, I'm still a fan, and I will be at the Garden tomorrow cheering him on.

If he leaves this year, I do not know if I will watch the game anymore. I will still play, but watching? eh.


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## Uncle Drew (Dec 16, 2013)

I feel bad for Kobe with his body clearly failing him. I underestimated the toll on his legs 6 months off from basketball would do (even though his legs were fine). He can barely make a move without damn near falling to the ground. Even post achilies Kobe was still nible, just no pop. Very possible he rushed back because he feels "good". But his game was always a notch above other elite players because of the attention to detail. The balance, the footwork, etc. That's also what was supposed to make him age a little more gracefully as a scorer. It's just not there right now, which is why some shots aren't even drawing iron. I don't know if he's going to be able to turn it around mid-season, especially since he's seemingly always dealing with an injury. 

To compound that, his shot selection is as bad as ever. He's taking 06' Kobe shots with about 1/10th 06' Kobe ability. 

To compound *that*, Byron can't really say shit and his teammates are almost forced to look for him when he's on the floor (except for Nick and Lou). 

I defended Kobe's questionable shot selection for many years, but I think you can take the "arguably" out of that, Paulo. There's not question he's been detrimental overall this season since he's refused to back down from his gunner mentality. I don't think this turns around until he inevitably sits out a few games AND the young guys show they can produce while he's out. 

Last note, I think the struggles all but cement this being his last year. Hopefully that's the case. That will make for an awkward situation next summer if he wants to come back.


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## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

Its sad to watch. Kobe just does not have it anymore and I doubt that it is something that he can reclaim mid season. I think Kobe knows it too.

I am surprised. I thought Kobe playing off the ball and "only" taking about 15 shots a game would be great. Its sad to see him miss wide open shots, especially in crunch time. I did expect to see him working from the mid post more than he currently does around the perimeter. Maybe that is something they could do to help him.

I have a suspicion that if this level of play continues, Kobe will have an "injury" that keeps him from playing. I don't think he can stomach playing at this depleted level, and he knows he is hurting the team. Its just hard for me to see him making it through the year.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Uncle Drew said:


> I feel bad for Kobe with his body clearly failing him. I underestimated the toll on his legs 6 months off from basketball would do (even though his legs were fine). He can barely make a move without damn near falling to the ground. Even post achilies Kobe was still nible, just no pop. Very possible he rushed back because he feels "good". But his game was always a notch above other elite players because of the attention to detail. The balance, the footwork, etc. That's also what was supposed to make him age a little more gracefully as a scorer. It's just not there right now, which is why some shots aren't even drawing iron. I don't know if he's going to be able to turn it around mid-season, especially since he's seemingly always dealing with an injury.
> 
> To compound that, his shot selection is as bad as ever. He's taking 06' Kobe shots with about 1/10th 06' Kobe ability.
> 
> ...


Yeah, i was kind of trying to sugar-coat it.

Kobe is shooting 8 threes a game. Making them at a .200% clip. That not only is atrocious, it kinda IS a "FU shot" to the teammates he is supposed to be helping develop...

But, it begins: 



> *Byron Scott to revisit talks with Kobe Bryant on handling back-to-back games*
> 
> MIAMI — The plan seemed so concrete only a few days ago. Lakers guard Kobe Bryant told Lakers coach Byron Scott he would like to pursue playing all 82 regular-season games amid the likelihood his 20th NBA season would also mark his last. Scott then confirmed Bryant would start for when the Lakers (1-5) play the Miami Heat and Orlando Magic on Tuesday and Wednesday, the first of the Lakers’ sets of 17 back-to-back contests for the 2015-16 campaign.
> 
> ...


http://www.insidesocal.com/lakers/2015/11/09/byron-scott-to-revisit-talks-with-kobe-bryant-on-handling-back-to-back-games/

Like other poster has said, if Kobe continues to play like this, it's a matter of time another "injury" will come and sideline Kobe for the rest of the season.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/664640219057139712


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

I'd rather he didnt


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Against the Blazers: 6-22 FGs, 0-5 on triples.

We all know Kobe can't defend anymore. But if he is shooting like crap (including low inteligence shots) like he is (.331FG%, .2003P% for the season) and refuses to stop hoisting shots, what's the use of him being out there?

Do we really want Kobe taking (and missing) shots away from Russell, Clarkson and Randle?

I understand this (probably) is Kobe Bryant's Farewell Season. And he should be out there playing. But if he keeps playing AGAINST the team's best interests, SHOULD he keep getting 30mpg?


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

EDIT: forget it


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## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

Kobe was an absolute beast in the mid post last night. If he would just stop taking shots past 18 ft out, he would be killer.


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## elcap15 (Aug 8, 2006)

Also, 30 min is just too much for him. He looks tired at the end of every game


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

> @MarkG_Medina: Byron argued that Kobe "has earned the privilege" to take the shots he's taking


Horseshit


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

no one has ever earned the right to take some of the unnecessary contested bullshit shots Kobe is prone to


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Horseshit


I swear, man, Byron Scott keeps on saying the dumbest things... 

Dude was around to see Kareem's Farewell Season. And Kareem (who was a shadow of his former shelf) didn't stink up the place Kobe Bryant is doing it.

F! When Kobe's hoisting a long-range jumper and the opposing players start to run to the other side of the court (knowing damn well it's a brick) what does it tell ya?


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

> @billoram: Byron Scott: "We just got trust issues, for whatever it's worth, on both ends of the court."


Maybe that's because you won't sack up and bench Kobe when he's playing like garbage and the rest of the team sees this, Byron.


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## 29380 (Feb 23, 2009)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/668901751244718080


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## sylaw (Nov 7, 2002)

Kobe's just trying to look out for the team's best interest. We aren't going anywhere so he's trying to make sure we're going to be in the running for the top 3 pick. I can respect that.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

Kobe can do whatever he wants. people here are just looking for someone to blame, and the frustration of losing has people boiling up inside. I get it, its terrible. 

pointing fingers at the man who gave you success for the last decade and a half isn't going to solve much. Byron is right--he earned it. the youngsters are going to develop regardless, especially in practice with the knowledge Kobe, Byron and the coaches give. you ever hear of MJ holding Rip Hamilton back?

giving DRuss 3 more shots per game or Clarkson a couple more isn't going to change anything. Clarkson is just a gunner anyway.

a big thing being overlooked is how he settles the offense down when he's in, and the ball does frequently move to open players. he shoots and he passes--thats called basketball.


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## Uncle Drew (Dec 16, 2013)

Nobody is being ungrateful pointing out what Kobe is doing. There were a lot of people here who defended his last contract extension, myself included. But there's no denying he hurts the team by chucking long range shots when he's capable of dominating the game in a different way. He does it in spurts. He did it against the Pistons. That's the Kobe we need.

Kobe hasn't earned the right to be held to a lower standard. 
Kobe has earned the respect to be held to a higher one.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

Uncle Drew said:


> Nobody is being ungrateful pointing out what Kobe is doing. There were a lot of people here who defended his last contract extension, myself included. But there's no denying he hurts the team by chucking long range shots when he's capable of dominating the game in a different way. He does it in spurts. He did it against the Pistons. That's the Kobe we need.
> 
> Kobe hasn't earned the right to be held to a lower standard.
> Kobe has earned the respect to be held to a higher one.


Well said Youngblood


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

The Detroit Kobe is exactly the type of Kobe we need. It isn't the amount of shots that bothers me, it's the type of shots. Long range contested three early in the clock that lead to long rebounds and eventual 2 on 1 fast breaks because Kobe stays back to complain. He's earned the right to go out on his own terms. That's all well and good. Kobe is what he is. It's not Kobe I'm pissed at. It's Byron.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> The Detroit Kobe is exactly the type of Kobe we need. It isn't the amount of shots that bothers me, it's the type of shots. Long range contested three early in the clock that lead to long rebounds and eventual 2 on 1 fast breaks because Kobe stays back to complain. *He's earned the right to go out on his own terms. *That's all well and good. Kobe is what he is. It's not Kobe I'm pissed at. It's Byron.


I really don't understand this whole "earned the rights" thing. 

Did Shaq "earn the rights" to be out of shape and lazy because he gave the Lakers 3 championships? Didn't Pau Gasol "earn the rights" to end his career as a Laker because he was the second-fiddle to 2 World Championship Lakers teams (and the Lakers had been trying to trade him for a couple of seasons before he left)?

The Lakers organization's gratitude for Kobe's (great) contributions for the franchise is well documented. In his pay check. He is the highest payed pro baller at 37 years old and with no longer being a top player in the league.

There is a reason Jordan fans like to forget his last two playing seasons. Because they were embarassing (for his high standards, off course). Didn't Jordan "earn the right" to do whatever the **** he wanted?

Last season was the worst season ever for the Lakers franchise. This season *has been worse* (so far, bet it won't last this way). And the way Kobe's playing is one of the major reasons the Lakers suck.

Like Uncle Drew said, Kobe (even this 37 year old Kobe) is capable of playing smart basketball. Moving the ball. Getting others involved. Taking smart shots. *He just doesn't want to*. And that's incredibly selfish (and embarassing).
Kobe has always led the Lakers by example. Even when this was Shaq's team. But what example is he giving guys like Clarkson, Russell and Randle when he keeps playing "**** you basketball"?

Kobe should look at Dirk.


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

When I say Kobe has earned the right to go out on his own terms I mean he's going to play the way he wants. Asking Kobe to change his game at this point in his career is futile. He is what he is. That doesn't mean he gets to chuck away with impunity. It's on Byron to bench his ass if he's playing like garbage. Do I want Kobe to stop chucking long range threes and play a more balanced game?? Absolutely but I'm not gonna get pissed at him when he doesn't though. I'm gonna get pissed at Byron for allowing him to.


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## Uncle Drew (Dec 16, 2013)

Byron's not without some blame, but there's seriously nothing he can do. There's not a single coach they could've brought in that could've made Kobe change his game or would've been foolish enough to clash with him. Remember when Byron took the job? One of the first things he said was Kobe is going to have to "change his game". A year later, he publicly declares that Kobe can do whatever the eff he wants. I don't believe Byron is happy with how Kobe is approaching the game, but I think his hands are tied. 

The problem is Byron then tries to be tough and authoritative with our young guys. He'll publicly call them out in the media. Tells them to "man up". Tells the media that we need to play harder on D and less selfishly on offense, but then says that doesn't apply to the team's leader. 

It's impossible to know how good (or bad) of a coach Byron really is with this talent and this situation. But going forward, it's going to be tough to keep the team's ear and trust with this kind of double standard.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> When I say Kobe has earned the right to go out on his own terms I mean he's going to play the way he wants. Asking Kobe to change his game at this point in his career is futile. He is what he is. That doesn't mean he gets to chuck away with impunity. It's on Byron to bench his ass if he's playing like garbage. Do I want Kobe to stop chucking long range threes and play a more balanced game?? Absolutely but I'm not gonna get pissed at him when he doesn't though. I'm gonna get pissed at Byron for allowing him to.


Like Uncle Drew said, there's nothing Scott can do about Kobe. He doesn't have the pull. And clashing with Kobe would get him out of a job.

This is on Kobe. If he keeps playing "the way he wants" with this results, i'd rather he doesn't play at all. Or play sparringly. Make up another injurie, like back spasms or something, ,to keep him out 2 out of 3 games, or whatever.

Team morale souldn't be good. Nick Young has already said something about it. And this team isn't stocked with long-life Kobe teammates, who would probably be more adept to putting up with his displays. Guys like Russell, Randle and Clarkson are hungry to prove themselves. And sooner or later they will be frustrated by passing up shots to a guy that just can't make them anymore.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Uncle Drew said:


> Byron's not without some blame, but there's seriously nothing he can do. There's not a single coach they could've brought in that could've made Kobe change his game or would've been foolish enough to clash with him. Remember when Byron took the job? One of the first things he said was Kobe is going to have to "change his game". A year later, he publicly declares that Kobe can do whatever the eff he wants. I don't believe Byron is happy with how Kobe is approaching the game, but I think his hands are tied.
> 
> The problem is Byron then tries to be tough and authoritative with our young guys. He'll publicly call them out in the media. Tells them to "man up". Tells the media that we need to play harder on D and less selfishly on offense, but then says that doesn't apply to the team's leader.
> 
> It's impossible to know how good (or bad) of a coach Byron really is with this talent and this situation. But going forward, it's going to be tough to keep the team's ear and trust with this kind of double standard.


The one positive I see in all this is that Byron calls out the young guys in the media and Kobe makes them defer to him in the games... Yet they keep their mouth shut and keep working hard. 

There's no doubt in my mind that being around Kobe is helping these kids more than the extra 5 fgas a game would. Clarkson and Randle have tons of raw talent and have proven to be very resilient. Clarkson in being drafted in the second round and Randle in breaking his leg. This tough love will be great for them long term, you guys need to stop worrying about Byron hurting their feelings.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Uncle Drew said:


> Byron's not without some blame, but there's seriously nothing he can do.


he could install some sort of offense that helps Kobe get his shots somehow else than just ISOs


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## Uncle Drew (Dec 16, 2013)

e-monk said:


> he could install some sort of offense that helps Kobe get his shots somehow else than just ISOs


Like a motion offense that's predicated on moving without the ball, screens, cuts and good passing? 

Guaranteed the shots Kobe is taking are not part of the game plan, regardless of what Byron says publicly. Just about every single game he's played in this year has started with a set play for Kobe; A pin-down screen, usually. 

Kobe's iso's from 20+ feet out are his own audibles. He has nobody to blame for the shots that he takes. I mean, the guy says he could score xx points or he could do this or that, but that's not what's good for the team. Then wtf is he taking 20 shots for? To not score?


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## Uncle Drew (Dec 16, 2013)

Jamel Irief said:


> The one positive I see in all this is that Byron calls out the young guys in the media and Kobe makes them defer to him in the games... Yet they keep their mouth shut and keep working hard.
> 
> There's no doubt in my mind that being around Kobe is helping these kids more than the extra 5 fgas a game would. Clarkson and Randle have tons of raw talent and have proven to be very resilient. Clarkson in being drafted in the second round and Randle in breaking his leg. This tough love will be great for them long term, you guys need to stop worrying about Byron hurting their feelings.


Yea, they don't get sucked in by the media, though DLo has come close. And I don't have a problem with the tough love at all. None of them lack confidence. I do wish DLo would get a little more PT when he earns it, but overall I think they're developing fine, thanks in part to Byron. 

I'm just disappointed with Kobe. Just wish he'd lead by a better example and reinforce what Byron says with his play. He basically plays contrary to it. Then blames his teammates for his struggles.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/673765220326596608


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