# NCAA Tournament Elite Eight March 25



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=bg3><TD align=left colSpan=8>*Sun. 3/25*​</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 align=left><TD width="2%"> </TD><TD align=left width="43%" height=30>*3 Oregon</SPAN>
1 Florida</SPAN>*
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*​</TD><TD width="1%">​</TD><TD noWrap align=left width="21%"><SCRIPT>document.write(formatTime('%I:%M %p',1174848000))</SCRIPT>*2:40 pm*​</TD><TD width="1%"> </TD><TD align=left width="21%"></TD><TD width="1%"> </TD><TD noWrap align=middle width="1%"> </TD><TD width="2%"> </TD></TR><TR class=bg3 align=left><TD width="2%"> </TD><TD align=left width="43%" height=30>*2 Georgetown</SPAN>
1 North Carolina</SPAN>*​</TD><TD noWrap align=right width="9%">*
*​</TD><TD width="1%">​</TD><TD noWrap align=left width="21%"><SCRIPT>document.write(formatTime('%I:%M %p',1174856700))</SCRIPT>*5:05 pm*​</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

honestly I think UNC and Florida will go through
but I really hope Georgetown can beat them
I just don't like UNC for some reason....

However they've been pretty impressive in the tournament
and I think they are the most talented team so my brain says
UNC wins the National Championship
my heart says they loose tommorow...


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

Oregon has to shoot the lights out to have a chance. With the advantage Florida has inside they can't rely on second chance points. Brooks, Porter and Taylor need to combine for at least 50-60 points.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

In the end the team with the most NBA players tends to win the national title. If I look at all the teams that are left, here's what I have come up with (this is of guys who get not just garbage time):

UCLA: Aaron Afflalo, Darren Collison
Ohio State: Greg Oden, Mike Conley, Daquaen Cook, David Lighty
Florida: Al Horford, Joakim Noah, Corey Brewer, Taurean Green (perhaps Chris Richard)
Georgetown: Roy Hibbert, Jeff Green, Dajuan Summers, Patrick Ewing Jr., Vernon Macklin
UNC: Brandan Wright, Tywon Lawson, Wayne Ellington, Tyler Hansbrough, Deon Thompson, Danny Green, Reyshawn Terry
Oregon: Bryce Taylor, Malik Hairston

My main reason for thinking UNC wouldn't beat Georgetown remains the same. This is a team of freshman and sophomores trying to beat an experienced team with NBA players on it's team as well. I think UNC won't make any perimeter shots and it will cost them.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

I'm surprised you chose Danny Green for your NBA players list and left Marcus Ginyard off of it...


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I actually think Stephenson has a better shot of making an NBA team than Green or Ginyard.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Stepheson rarely plays, so I just can't make that distinction. He could be a big time player or he could Jeff Graves, I have no clue. I think by the time Danny Green is a senior he will be a big time player. As for Ginyard, he is not a good offensive player. Maybe he could do well in the D-League like Jackie Manuel.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

Ginyard is a much, much better offensive player than Jackie Manuel. quicker as well.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Jonathan Watters said:


> Ginyard is a much, much better offensive player than Jackie Manuel. quicker as well.


That maybe true, but it sure hasn't shown up in the form of offensive production. He's a defensive stopper on this team and maybe as a senior he'll assume a larger scoring role, but as it stands right now, he just happens to be an above average hustle player.


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## Verro (Jul 4, 2005)

HKF said:


> In the end the team with the most NBA players tends to win the national title. If I look at all the teams that are left, here's what I have come up with (this is of guys who get not just garbage time):
> 
> *UCLA: Aaron Afflalo, Darren Collison*
> Ohio State: Greg Oden, Mike Conley, Daquaen Cook, David Lighty
> ...


The Pac 10 players kind of got slighted here. 
For UCLA Mbah a Moute is projected as a late lotto pick in 2008, with Josh Shipp projected to go in the late first round NBADraft.net | Home. 
For Oregon: Aaron Brooks will probably go in the early second round, Porter is one of the top fresman in the nation, I could see him being a richman's Earl Boykins.


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## YoYoYoWasup (Nov 14, 2004)

Florida simply cannot afford to get off to another slow start today. Butler and Purdue are nice little teams, but Oregon is a whole different animal. They shoot lights out from 3 and are extremely hard to stop on the fast break. The Gators have to cut down on the turnovers and go into Horford and Noah on every possession. Florida's the better team, but if they get off to another sluggish start, Oregon can, and probably will, beat them.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

HKF said:


> That maybe true, but it sure hasn't shown up in the form of offensive production. He's a defensive stopper on this team and maybe as a senior he'll assume a larger scoring role, but as it stands right now, he just happens to be an above average hustle player.


But Green hasn't really produced anything significant either...

Ginyard is 10x the athlete, can handle the ball a bit, and is a lockdown defender. Those three things make him much more suited for the NBA than Green.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Honestly, I dont see Ginyard or Green being NBA players. I am surprised Aaron Brooks wasnt mentioned on that Oregon list.

Regarding Stephenson, he looks like a 4 year player. Hopefully by year 4, he has developed a refined post game and is dominating on the boards.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Verro said:


> The Pac 10 players kind of got slighted here.
> For UCLA Mbah a Moute is projected as a late lotto pick in 2008, with Josh Shipp projected to go in the late first round NBADraft.net | Home.
> For Oregon: Aaron Brooks will probably go in the early second round, Porter is one of the top fresman in the nation, I could see him being a richman's Earl Boykins.


Boykins averaged well over 20 ppg in his career. It's doubtful that Porter becomes a rich man's Earl Boykins, whatever that means. Porter isn't a point guard. He's a 5'7 shooting guard. He's going to need a lot of luck to make the NBA. As for Josh Shipp, he's made out of glass and always hurt. Luc Richard may be projected, but he's an end of the bench NBA scrub, so who cares if he made the league. He's not more than a hustle player at best. Brooks has Europe or the D-League written all over him.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I am sorry when I watch Ginyard, I don't see great handles. I see confusion as to what his role should be. Just because he has a great body, doesn't mean he's an NBA player. He doesn't have a good jumpshot, nor the ability to blow by anyone. Maybe he can develop into a Greg Buckner, but even then Greg Buckner was a hell of a player in college. 

Danny Green has more basketball instincts. The only reason why we haven't seen it is because Terry is there not to mention for some reason Wayne Ellington continues to start, even though he has been pretty ineffective in the tournament.


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## DaBruins (Jul 30, 2003)

Cmon Ducks! You need to hit like 20 three's today. Go Ducks!


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

This looks like its going to be a 3pt fest


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Brewer with that incredible move on one end, only for Bryce Taylor to flush it over Horford


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

"[College] is the only place a player can really get better." - Len Elmore


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Not sure why Florida wants to play uptempo against the Ducks, a helter skelter game is the only chance Oregon has, I guess Billy Donovan knows more than me.......i think.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

TM said:


> "[College] is the only place a player can really get better." - Len Elmore


Didn't really understand that quote either. What was he thinking when he said that? I mean if you're watching this ball game, it's obvious that Noah has not improved one bit, at least from an effectiveness standpoint.

I really wish Chris Richard would go strong to the rim when he grabs offensive rebounds. He has had two putback attempts that he passed back out. Didn't make sense? Not sure how Oregon will win this game. I expect in the 2nd half for them to get dominated on the glass, because none of the Florida bigs are in foul trouble.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Hmm did he just say Brooks will be in the NBA next year


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

HB said:


> Hmm did he just say Brooks will be in the NBA next year


Why wouldnt he be?


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## DaBruins (Jul 30, 2003)

rainman said:


> Why wouldnt he be?


Brooks will be a 2nd round pick at best. We'll see if he sticks around or not.

James Brown said something equally as stupid as Elmore: "Boy, Hairston, he's got a great package down low"


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Brooks is a blur. Wow at that guy's speed.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

HKF said:


> Luc Richard may be projected, but he's an end of the bench NBA scrub, so who cares if he made the league. He's not more than a hustle player at best.


Danny Green, Reyshawn Terry, and Ewing Jr., are gonna be more than hustle players, if they even make the league?


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## DaBruins (Jul 30, 2003)

HKF said:


> Boykins averaged well over 20 ppg in his career. It's doubtful that Porter becomes a rich man's Earl Boykins, whatever that means. Porter isn't a point guard. He's a 5'7 shooting guard. He's going to need a lot of luck to make the NBA. As for Josh Shipp, he's made out of glass and always hurt. Luc Richard may be projected, but he's an end of the bench NBA scrub, so who cares if he made the league. He's not more than a hustle player at best. Brooks has Europe or the D-League written all over him.


Luc will be a top 20 pick, it's definitely significant. Shipp may or may not last, but if he manages to get into the 1st round, thats also a guaranteed contract. I think we have, at minimum, 4 future NBAers, but only 1 has star potential (Collison).


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I don't really see how Luc Richard does more than Ewing Jr. They are both hustle players. There is no way that he will be a top 20 pick. He's a 6'7 PF with no shooting range. C'mon now.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

Let's go Tarheel's!


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Already two cheap fouls called one on Hibbert, one on Wright. Did anyone see Hibbert roll to the rim? WOW Hansbrough is a walking offensive foul, no call as usual.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

Wow look at Brandan Wright's touch around the basket...Thats impressive


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## DaBruins (Jul 30, 2003)

HKF said:


> I don't really see how Luc Richard does more than Ewing Jr. They are both hustle players. There is no way that he will be a top 20 pick. He's a 6'7 PF with no shooting range. C'mon now.


He's not a PF. He has a prototypical SF body. His shooting range goes out to 20 feet, he's just not consistent with it. But he's improved from last year and he will improve his shooting again and again before he enters the league. His defense, athleticism, and rebounding alone make him a top 20 pick.


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## UD40 (May 12, 2005)

Thompson gets a tech.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Hibbert is so damn good. Let's go Hoyas. Knock these *******s out of the tournament. Nine free throws for UNC already. Unbelievable.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

Thompson for UNC is giving them some really valuable play while Wright and Hansbrough are out...


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

HKF said:


> Already two cheap fouls called one on Hibbert, one on Wright. Did anyone see Hibbert roll to the rim? WOW Hansbrough is a walking offensive foul, no call as usual.


Hibbert got that ball at the top of the key, executed a dribbling spin move through the lane, and layed it up.

That was absolutely ridiculous.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

We need Tyler in there to start banging around

Terry is playing for his pro career right now


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

How much physically larger is the frame of Carlos Boozer as compared to Tyler Hansbrough? I think there is a similarity in the way they play, though I think predraft measurements are going to show that Hansbrough is smaller than listed.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Come on Tyler, what the **** type of dumb shot was that. Not with a guy as lengthy as that on you.


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## apelman42 (Apr 8, 2005)

I love Hibbert's offensive game...but he's getting exposed on the defensive end...Carolina's making him move around a lot and that's allowing them to get open shots.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Hibbert is definitely not fleet of foot. His confidense and ability as a scorer has been steadily improving all year. It's a shame he's in foul trouble. He still may well put up a big number today.


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## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

Ellington's shot selection is really something else. Terry's got the hot hand and was open, you have to get him the ball.


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## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

Heels better watch out. Hansbrough and Wright both with 2 fouls now.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

lol, Carolina is gonna run Hibbert into cardiac arrest.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Its a damn shame Wright is gone after this year. It would have been a joy to watch this guy dominate next year

Ellington is playing like utter crap


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## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

I swear Wright has some touch around the hoop. Amazing.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

HB said:


> Its a damn shame Wright is gone after this year. It would have been a joy to watch this guy dominate next year


I think he's solidified himself as a top 3 pick.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

I think North Carolina's depth is going to win this game for them. If Roy Williams keep subbing and these bigs off of the bench from UNC can keep giving them solid minutes its over...


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## Serrated Shadow (Mar 30, 2006)

Geaux Tigers said:


> I think North Carolina's depth is going to win this game for them. If Roy Williams keep subbing and these bigs off of the bench from UNC can keep giving them solid minutes its over...


I hope so, if UNC wins i've got a perfect final 4 in my bracket :gopray: I've never even come close to having that happen before.


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## YoYoYoWasup (Nov 14, 2004)

Congrats to the Gators on the Final Four. Humphrey was absolutely on fire today. I know it's highly unlikely, but I think he might have a chance in the NBA as strictly a late game, spot up three point specialist. His stroke and range are phenomenal.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

The officiating has been ridiculous. A 15+ free throw difference is a god damn joke.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Timeouts are killing the flow of this game

Also that pontiac commercial is a ripoff of the Radioshack stand in line commercials


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

HB said:


> Timeouts are killing the flow of this game


I bet the Georgetown bigs wont say the same thing. They look like they need a bit of a breather.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

HKF said:


> The officiating has been ridiculous. A 15+ free throw difference is a god damn joke.


It should be more, Georgetown uses the old theory that if you foul continuously they cant call them all.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

The tar heels are pathetic defensively


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Hibbert needs to be in the game, because they need their low post presence. You can't worry about foul trouble when you're playing for a Final Four. Someone had said something about Hibbert's defense, but the man has five blocks. He's played terrific defense, even if they are calling ticky tack fouls on him.

I will repeat that NCAA refs don't know how to officiate big men, which is why the bigs belong in the pros.


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## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

C'mon Carolina... Where's MJ when you need him?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

This is sad. Just sad. Why not get the ball inside


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Ellington? are you ####ing kidding me? and out of a timeout, wow!


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I question Roy's coaching, I really do.


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## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

Ellington... OT. Georgetown deserves to win this game, UNC's been atrocious.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

HB said:


> This is sad. Just sad. Why not get the ball inside


Seriously, all you need is one.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

I dont know why Brandan Wright wasn't in the game when it was under 40 seconds left. Sure he had 4 fouls but you have to get the points. He gives you the best chance at a rebound putback if the shot is missed.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Hibbert owns


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Calls all going G-towns way, hoya paranoia is alive and well.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

Georgetown deserves this win man. The Tarheels are just putting up bad shot after bad shot in this OT...


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

G'town deserved to win. It'll be fun to watch Oden and Hibbert go at it.


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## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

Geaux Tigers said:


> Georgetown deserves this win man. The Tarheels are just putting up bad shot after bad shot in this OT...


Yup... This one's done. Can't make a single shot. Congrats to the Hoyas. Well deserved.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Geaux Tigers said:


> Georgetown deserves this win man. The Tarheels are just putting up bad shot after bad shot in this OT...


They hung in there, the heels went away from what was working and that is driving Lawson to the basket. Wright and Hansbrough dissapeared down the stretch and Roy Williams couldnt draw up a play at the end. Ohio State has to be eccstatic, Georgetown isnt going to matchup with them at all.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

unless Hansbrough is a lot better than he's shown in the tournament, I would absolutely not use a draft pick on him. He looks like your prototypical "hustle player". A Mark Madsen or Eduardo Najera at best. I would not use a draft pick on a guy like that.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Loving this. I told all the skeptics. It's Hoya Paranoia back in full-effect. Team of Destiny. Georgetown is back. Preseason I had Georgetown and they have truly played some inspired basketball.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

HB said:


> I question Roy's coaching, I really do.


you mean he's _only_ won because of the talent on the floor :jawdrop:


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

TM said:


> you mean he's _only_ won because of the talent on the floor :jawdrop:


In short, YES


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Mateo said:


> unless Hansbrough is a lot better than he's shown in the tournament, I would absolutely not use a draft pick on him. He looks like your prototypical "hustle player". A Mark Madsen or Eduardo Najera at best. I would not use a draft pick on a guy like that.


Lets see, Hansbrough went for 26 and 10 and Brandan Wright(who everyone says is the 3rd pick in the draft) was 14 and 6, you want to rethink your comments before you make a complete fool of yourself.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

HKF said:


> Loving this. I told all the skeptics. It's Hoya Paranoia back in full-effect. Team of Destiny. Georgetown is back. Preseason I had Georgetown and they have truly played some inspired basketball.


Gotta give you credit for taking them because i saw nothing early on to suggest they would get to the final 4, i dont even think they're all that great but they're in is all that counts.


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## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

Mateo said:


> unless Hansbrough is a lot better than he's shown in the tournament, I would absolutely not use a draft pick on him. He looks like your prototypical "hustle player". A Mark Madsen or Eduardo Najera at best. I would not use a draft pick on a guy like that.


And this is why you will never, ever be affiliated with the decision making for any professional basketball club.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

That's because Hansbrough is allowed to use his body as a battering ram. He completely floored Ewing on one play and then gets a ticky tack foul for him a moment later. F Hansbrough, F the Holes, I'm glad to see those mofos go down. They've gotten the benefit of every call, in every game (reference the Michigan State game a week ago) and this time even with the advantages, they lost to a better team with a better coach. There will be no rolling of the balls out and winning this year.

Have fun fishing.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

rain, tell us exactly what you mean by that. i'm assuming you're not saying TH > BW, right?


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Hansbrough just isn't that terrific a pro prospect.He does very well against college players,but he's not going to be able to get away with any of the stuff he does now against NBA bigs.Those guys will laugh at him when he dips his shoulder into them.He'll be able to contribute,but nothing like what he does in college.I don't know what he should do,but I sort of think he needs to go pro because of his age though.He'll be 22 in november and if he stays in school that might count against him more than anything good he does next year will count for him.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

TM said:


> rain, tell us exactly what you mean by that. i'm assuming you're not saying TH > BW, right?


i'll address 2 issues;
HKF win with class ok, Tyler played his *** off, give the kid some credit, he gave away a ton of size out there and carried this team on his back, he was a beast and at the end of regulation he was getting hacked and not getting any calls, you know your #### but like i said have some class when you're on top.

2nd point, no i dont think Hans is better than Wright as far as a pro prospect, i have Wright in the mix for #3 although i would probably go with a couple of others, i was referring to the poster who was dogging Hansbrough and i was merely saying he clearly outplayed their other top player today, had nothing to do with Wright's draft status.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Hansbrough will be a contributor on the pro level. He will be no superstar, but he will be a guy that will give 110% everytime he is on the floor.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I really despise UNC fans. I have to hear from these ************ on a daily basis even out here in LA. I was glad to see them lose, especially to a team I like with players I like. I don't like the preferential treatment Hansbrough receives, as he elbows his way to fouls on the other team. They lost and I am happy.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

rainman said:


> 2nd point, no i dont think Hans is better than Wright as far as a pro prospect, i have Wright in the mix for #3 although i would probably go with a couple of others, i was referring to the poster who was dogging Hansbrough and i was merely saying he clearly outplayed their other top player today, had nothing to do with Wright's draft status.




rep for you, too


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

HKF said:


> I really despise UNC fans. I have to hear from these ************ on a daily basis even out here in LA. I was glad to see them lose, especially to a team I like with players I like. I don't like the preferential treatment Hansbrough receives, as he elbows his way to fouls on the other team. They lost and I am happy.


Some might say he carves out position, he certainly isnt throwing elbows out there, the all out hustle he plays with would be a welcome sight to most hoops fans, guess you're not one of them. Who do you like in the next one?, you're two homeboys Oden and Hibbert going at it.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Well both big men will be in foul trouble anyway, but I like Georgetown. The experience of the Hoya guards under pressure will save the day. Not to mention Georgetown plays better defense than OSU and has a better coach. Hoyas forced UNC to miss 19 of the last 20 shots before they hit a meaningless three in OT.

Ellington is really overrated. This guy has a funky jumpshot and weak handles. Needs to really work the kinks out of his game.


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## YoYoYoWasup (Nov 14, 2004)

I second HKF on the Tar Heels and their fans. Incredbily arrogant and full of themselves. Some even had the nerve to say UNC would go undeafeated this year and that they'd run away with the tournament. As a Gator fan, I heard all offseason that Florida was simply a product of a weak field in an incredibly down year for college basketball (it was a down year, but not as much as they made it sound) and that Florida would be lucky to compete with all the dominant freshmen coming in. Screw 'em.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

HKF said:


> Well both big men will be in foul trouble anyway, but I like Georgetown. The experience of the Hoya guards under pressure will save the day. Not to mention Georgetown plays better defense than OSU and has a better coach. Hoyas forced UNC to miss 19 of the last 20 shots before they hit a meaningless three in OT.
> 
> Ellington is really overrated. This guy has a funky jumpshot and weak handles. Needs to really work the kinks out of his game.


Would like to see Oden stay out of foul trouble, he should be able to own Roy Hibbert.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

YoYoYoWasup said:


> I second HKF on the Tar Heels and their fans. Incredbily arrogant and full of themselves. Some even had the nerve to say UNC would go undeafeated this year and that they'd run away with the tournament. As a Gator fan, I heard all offseason that Florida was simply a product of a weak field in an incredibly down year for college basketball (it was a down year, but not as much as they made it sound) and that Florida would be lucky to compete with all the dominant freshmen coming in. Screw 'em.


Gator fans are no different. I have heard the same ridiculous statements from them also.


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## YoYoYoWasup (Nov 14, 2004)

rainman said:


> Would like to see Oden stay out of foul trouble, he should be able to own Roy Hibbert.


You're underrating Hibbert here. He's not Oden, but he's still a force.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

YoYoYoWasup said:


> You're underrating Hibbert here. He's not Oden, but he's still a force.


If Oden is smart and the refs let them play Hibbert wont even sniff the basket.


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## YoYoYoWasup (Nov 14, 2004)

HB said:


> Gator fans are no different. I have heard the same ridiculous statements from them also.


North Carolina fans talked about how they had the most talented and deepest team assembled in college basketball history and how they'd dominate this season. Florida fans never said any of the sort. They were unbelievably annoying in the offseason.

As for Oden, let's not make him out to be Lew Alcindor offensively. Hibbert will hold his own against Oden, and he has a height advantage.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Once someone discovered and removed Tyler Hansbrough's family and replaced them with legitimate NCAA officials at halftime, we got to see how good this Georgetown team really is. Hibbert proved to be a huge part of that. When he was graciously allowed to play tonight, the Hoyas really dominated and didn't get destroyed on the glass.

UNC was an embarrassment in the second half. Did they miss 19 of their last 21 shots?

My only hope, as a Mississippi State fan, is that Ben Hansbrough gets half the benefits (or benefit of the doubt) his older brother does. My God, I can't stand watching Tyler play - he's just a bull in a china cabinet.

Terrificly entertaining ball game to watch. Hoyas/Buckeyes (Hibbert/Oden) should be a treat.


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## Gtown07 (Dec 10, 2003)

I just got back from East Rutherford. I have to admit that UNC is probably the more talented team but JTIII is light years ahead of Roy Williams in terms of coaching ability. When he switched to the zone Williams couldn't figure it out. And once TH started running out of steam and G'town fronted him w Green the momentum totally shifted. 

Also this board missed a lot of important trends. 
First the incredibly poor calls in the first half. It's so true that both Oden and Hibbert get screwed in college bc they're true big men. But just in general it seemed that UNC was getting a lot of calls. I'm ok w calling a close game but call it both ways then. 

Second was Jeff Green even mentioned in 7 pages? He played amazing again. I'm not sure who's defending him on OSU. All I have to say is he's the 2nd most talented player left in this tournament and continues to improve his draft stock. This guy is the total package. 

Third Dajuan Summers. If anyone thinks the Hoyas can't win next year look to his last 2 games. His 20 today and 15 last game was the difference between a final 4 appearance and a disappointing season. 

Lastly I hate the way UNC plays but they are AMAZING. Tywon Lawson in person is just unreal. He's a fantastic pg. And BWright is going to be a sick pro. Love his length and ability. He's top 3 guaranteed. 
But I dont understand the ref's treatment of Hansbrough. He got wayyy too many calls. I love his effort and his craftiness but he gets preferential treament for no reason. Great footwork, post up moves, etc and Roy obviously can't handle someone that active but some of those calls were awful. For example Roy's third at the beginning of the 2nd half on TH's "fade away" was shocking. 

I'm really not sure how many times out of 10 we wouldve won this game but I'm happy we got the win. Good luck next year Tar Heels. I sincerely hope you have a great season.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

rainman said:


> 2nd point, no i dont think Hans is better than Wright as far as a pro prospect, i have Wright in the mix for #3 although i would probably go with a couple of others, i was referring to the poster who was dogging Hansbrough and i was merely saying he clearly outplayed their other top player today, had nothing to do with Wright's draft status.


I wasn't dogging him, I said I wouldn't use a draft pick on him (based on the NCAA tournament only, I didn't watch the regular season). He might be a productive player, I just don't think he's worth a draft pick. I don't really care what his stats were against college players, from what I've seen he possesses no skills that Madsen or Najera don't have.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

A wise man once told me, you can tell just how good a coach is, with the type of play he draws out of a timeout. When the game was tied in the dying seconds of regular time. Roy drew a play for Wayne Ellington who had been cold all day, to chuck the ball from 23 or so feet out.


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## Gtown07 (Dec 10, 2003)

Mateo said:


> I wasn't dogging him, I said I wouldn't use a draft pick on him (based on the NCAA tournament only, I didn't watch the regular season). He might be a productive player, I just don't think he's worth a draft pick. I don't really care what his stats were against college players, from what I've seen he possesses no skills that Madsen or Najera don't have.



Well then you're not looking past his skin color. The guy has post moves at 21 that those other guys still can't do. I'm not saying TH is going to be an all-star but I could see him playing an important role (probably starting) on a very good team. Maybe as the fourth or fifth option. i like nbadraft.net's comparison: Haslem.


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

First off, we all know Roy isn't a great tactictian. That being said, he wasn't telling his kids to shoot a quick, contested 3-pointer after one pass every time down the court with the Heels up 10 and five minutes to play. In fact, he was calling timeouts to try and convince his guards to get the ball inside. I can't speak for the final play, but it didn't look it was a "called" anything. Ellington just pulled up and shot it. 

Secondly, if Hansbrough got away with calls early in the game, he was murdered down the stretch on multiple occasions and the refs swallowed their whistles. If I remember correctly, there were several occasions where Hibbert could have picked up his 5th foul and the whistle wasn't blown. The guy recives just as much as he dishes out (anybody see the first GaTech game?), and that is what people tend to forget about sometimes. The guy knows how to use contact to his advantage as well as any post player I've ever seen, and he certainly isn't a flopper. He does get away with some shuffling of the feet, though. Either way, the point is that in officiating, what goes around comes around. And it clearly came around for UNC down the stretch in this one. 

Maybe after Hansbrough has been helping out successful teams for a decade, people will realize that every team needs competent roleplayer big men just as much as they need a back to the basket force. Of course you would think this would be obvious after the success of David Lee this year, so maybe not...

Thirdly, Hibbert is amazing. By far, by far, BY FAR the most valuable player of the tournament so far. The Hoyas have been untouchable whenever he is on the court, so my guess is that the OSU-G'Town matchup will go to the team whose 7-foot lottery pick can stay on the court the longest.


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## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Gtown07 said:


> Well then you're not looking past his skin color. The guy has post moves at 21 that those other guys still can't do. I'm not saying TH is going to be an all-star but I could see him playing an important role (probably starting) on a very good team. Maybe as the fourth or fifth option. i like nbadraft.net's comparison: Haslem.


What are these post moves then? I didn't see them in the tournament. And I've also never seen Haslem do many post moves either. If you mean hitting a 12 foot jumper, then ok.


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## DaBruins (Jul 30, 2003)

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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Jonathan Watters said:


> First off, we all know Roy isn't a great tactictian. That being said, he wasn't telling his kids to shoot a quick, contested 3-pointer after one pass every time down the court with the Heels up 10 and five minutes to play. In fact, he was calling timeouts to try and convince his guards to get the ball inside. I can't speak for the final play, but it didn't look it was a "called" anything. Ellington just pulled up and shot it.
> 
> Secondly, if Hansbrough got away with calls early in the game, he was murdered down the stretch on multiple occasions and the refs swallowed their whistles. If I remember correctly, there were several occasions where Hibbert could have picked up his 5th foul and the whistle wasn't blown. The guy recives just as much as he dishes out (anybody see the first GaTech game?), and that is what people tend to forget about sometimes. The guy knows how to use contact to his advantage as well as any post player I've ever seen, and he certainly isn't a flopper. He does get away with some shuffling of the feet, though. Either way, the point is that in officiating, what goes around comes around. And it clearly came around for UNC down the stretch in this one.
> 
> ...


Hibbert has played well but is he any better than Patrick Obryant? He's basically playing against powerforwards and college pfs at that, i will change my tune if he can ring up Oden and the UF frontline for sure.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

rainman said:


> Hibbert has played well but is he any better than Patrick Obryant? He's basically playing against powerforwards and college pfs at that, i will change my tune if he can ring up Oden and the UF frontline for sure.


Hibbert's footwork and understanding of the game is leaps and bounds ahead of O'Bryant's.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

rainman said:


> Hibbert has played well but is he any better than Patrick Obryant? He's basically playing against powerforwards and college pfs at that, i will change my tune if he can ring up Oden and the UF frontline for sure.


To be fair, Hibbert played Noah and Horford to a standstill a year ago in the Sweet Sixteen. Florida won that game 58-53, and the score was 54-53 with 50 seconds left in the ball game. I think playing against guys his size will make Roy even more effective, because he's so agile. Have you ever seen such footwork from a 7'2 guy? I know I haven't.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

HKF said:


> To be fair, Hibbert played Noah and Horford to a standstill a year ago in the Sweet Sixteen. Florida won that game 58-53, and the score was 54-53 with 50 seconds left in the ball game. I think playing against guys his size will make Roy even more effective, because he's so agile. Have you ever seen such footwork from a 7'2 guy? I know I haven't.


If you're asking me a question you might not like my answer, i think he's a good prospect but hardly anything to go overboard on, you seem convinced he is staying in school?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Yes I am convinced he is.


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

Sure some great coaches are great in-game coaches as well, however others are great coaches because of they way the develop talent.

In my mind, the truly great coaches make great halftime adjustments. Even coaches who are not great in-game or tactical coaches (Roy, Lute, ect.) always find a way to adjust or change things at the half which benefit their teams.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

TucsonClip said:


> Sure some great coaches are great in-game coaches as well, however others are great coaches because of they way the develop talent.
> 
> In my mind, the truly great coaches make great halftime adjustments. Even coaches who are not great in-game or tactical coaches (Roy, Lute, ect.) always find a way to adjust or change things at the half which benefit their teams.


Because they recruit the best talent. Without that talent, it'd would be a whole different story.


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

HKF said:


> Because they recruit the best talent. Without that talent, it'd would be a whole different story.


Lute has always been known as a coach who develops his players. Arizona was not a school that landed big time players until the mid 90's. Lately Arizona has had some extremely talented recruits roll in, however Lute is a great coach because of the way his players develop and also his half time adjustments. Obviously, there are more factors and characteristics which make up a great coach, but those are Lute's two main attributes.


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