# Rank Our Past 3 Drafts career NBA production



## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

This is purely speculation as it is obviously difficult to tell currently how these players will develop. When their careers are over, how would you rank Banks, Perkins, Jefferson, West, Allen, Reed, Green, Gomez and Greene? Like I said, its early so this is purely based on the potential you've witnessed thus far.

1. Gerald Green - he's the only 1 with Super Star potential and could be a perennial all star
2. Al Jefferson (tie) - think he'll be a poor man's Elton Brand, which is still very good - 2 AS game appearances
2. Justin Reed (tie) - think he'll be a very poor man's Ron Artest, which again is still good - never an all star. 
4. Banks - starting nba pg, never an all star
5. Allen - starting nba sg, never an all star
6. Gomez - starting nba sf on a team with a dominant SG or a 6th man. Never an all star, but good complimentary player
7. Perkins - career back up center
8. West - career back up pg
9. Greene - journeyman pg who sets the record for most 10 day contracts ever signed in the league playing for a total of 17 teams over his 8 year career. Retires to Jacksonville, Florida and is neighbors with good friend Rick Brunson


Obviously way to early to predict, but that's my scout's eye currently


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## Delontes Herpes (May 11, 2005)

1. G-Money
2. Al Jefferson




3. Tony Allen
4. Kendrick Perkins
5. Justin Reed
6. Delonte West
7. Marcus Banks
8. Ryan Gomes



9. Orien Greene


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

1- Gerald Green- Superstar
2- Al Jefferson- Possible Superstar
3- Delonte West- Banner I like the career backup PG when he is starting next year over the Holy Grail Marcus Banks
4- Tony Allen- Summer League Warrior
5- Justin Reed- Summer League Warrior Pt. 2
6- Ryan Gomes- Will be a productive NBA SF
7- Kendirck Perkins- Done ****, will be good but can't give him a high rank yet
8- Marcus Banks- 13th pick gone to waste. Does not fit in with offensive mindset
9- Orien Greene- Bimbo Coles Jr.


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## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

Gerald Green said:


> 3- Delonte West- Banner I like the career backup PG when he is starting next year over the Holy Grail Marcus Banks


Is your name Doc Rivers?


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

1 - Al Jefferson
2 - Marcus Banks
3 - Ryan Gomes
4 - Tony Allen
5 - Kendrick Perkins
6 - Justin Reed
7 - Delonte West

I'll comment on Gerald Green once I see him play.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Gerald Green said:


> 1- Gerald Green- Superstar
> 2- Al Jefferson- Possible Superstar


Gerald Green was ranked from 25-30 in the class of 2004, far behind Al Jefferson. Had Jefferson gone to Arkansas for one year he would have been a top 3 selection in 2005. Don't get me wrong, I think he's one of the four best players from 2005, but the strength of the 2005 draft was in its depth, not its starpower. I think G-2 will be very good, but I'll also be surprised if he ever gets as good as P-2 was at his best. On a five star scale I rate them both as four star prospects



Gerald Green said:


> 3- Delonte West- Banner I like the career backup PG when he is starting next year over the Holy Grail Marcus Banks
> 4- Tony Allen- Summer League Warrior
> 8- Marcus Banks- 13th pick gone to waste. Does not fit in with offensive mindset


Who is this "holy grail Marcus Banks" you speak of? Most of us look at the point guard situation as the evils of two lessers, and see Banks as the more ready player. West was simply awful as a one guard last year. To the point that Doc basically converted Ricky into a point forward so that he could keep West on the floor, as a spot up shooter. Also, did you think that the coaching staff's working Tony Allen out at the one in Vegas was a vote of confidence for West or Banks? It seems an implicit admission that there's no room for Allen on the wing, and that the Celtics are short of guys that play the one well. Banks remains better than West, and I still believe they're both bound for bench roles. The one because he simply lacks the handle, quickness or athleticism to play the one and the other because he's a poor shooter.



Gerald Green said:


> 9- Orien Greene- Bimbo Coles Jr.


No doubt you reached this conclusion after scouting him extensively.


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## SamIam (Jun 1, 2004)

Gerald Green was passed by all 7 teams that worked him out. None of them thought he was worth a top 7 pick in a very, very weak draft in terms of superstar potential. It is ridiculous to think of him as a steal at #18 given his pretty weak showing in Las Vegas. To me he is no better a pick than Dorrell Wright was for Miami last year. At least Dorrell had a 30 point game last year in th LVSL.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Summer league means something - but not much. Don't forget that our old friend Kedrick Brown tore up the summer league.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

> Don't forget that our old friend Kedrick Brown tore up the summer league.


What are you saying? Kedrick Brown is a stud. 

I'm not going to get too high on Green or Gomes before I see them play in a real NBA game. Which could be awhile, because I don't see very many games. But still.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

banner17 said:


> Is your name Doc Rivers?


No but Doc seems to think Delonte is going to start


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

SamIam said:


> Gerald Green was passed by all 7 teams that worked him out. None of them thought he was worth a top 7 pick in a very, very weak draft in terms of superstar potential. It is ridiculous to think of him as a steal at #18 given his pretty weak showing in Las Vegas. To me he is no better a pick than Dorrell Wright was for Miami last year. At least Dorrell had a 30 point game last year in th LVSL.


I will explain this:
Portland- He refused to work out
Utah- Needed a PG
Charlotte- Needs to sell tickets instead of build for the future
Toronto-He did not want to play there and would of forced a trade
Orlando- Took Vazquez which makes them idiots
Clippers- Have not drafted an all star since Danny Manning. So why start now
N.O- Took the best player in the draft
Lakers- Looking for a center. Wanted Green but wanted another Shaq
And BTW summer league is where all the superstars are made huh?


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

SamIam, aren't you being a little negative. It has been reported that Boston was made several offers for the #18th selection. This shows that teams were mildly interested. Secondly, I'll trust the scouts opinions' over yours as they confidently deemed this pick a steal and unlike you or me, they get _paid_ to evaluate players.

I'm not saying that he will be a superstar. Far from it actually. He's 19 and still very raw, but he has the makeup to become a star in the league and he would be a great compliment to Al Jefferson.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Premier said:


> SamIam, aren't you being a little negative. It has been reported that Boston was made several offers for the #18th selection. This shows that teams were mildly interested. Secondly, *I'll trust the scouts opinions'* over yours as they confidently deemed this pick a steal and unlike you or me, they get *paid to evaluate players.*
> 
> I'm not saying that he will be a superstar. Far from it actually. He's 19 and still very raw, but he has the makeup to become a star in the league and he would be a great compliment to Al Jefferson.



So that's why he dropped down to the 18th pick?...17 tries and no luck...scouts must suck then. (Sorry, I have to play along).


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

That wasn't what I was going for. Maybe I should replace "scout" with draft/player analysts who covered the draftees. He dropped to #18 because his father was an idiot for not letting him compete with other draftees and he's way too raw to be selected in the top five selections.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Gerald Green said:


> 8- Marcus Banks- 13th pick gone to waste. Does not fit in with offensive mindset



theres maybe 4 players that were taken after him in the draft that i would go with instead of him...ridnour, howard, barbosa and mayyyyyyybe korver even tho i hate him...that draft sucked after the top 10...its not like we passed up on great players for him


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

I would take Josh Howard over Marcus Banks in a heart beat.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Premier said:


> I would take Josh Howard over Marcus Banks in a heart beat.



i agree 100%...as he is in the 4 players i listed that were better than banks


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

I would take Marcus Banks over Ridnour, Barbosa, and Korver in a heart beat.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Premier said:


> I would take Josh Howard over Marcus Banks in a heart beat.


I would get hard on Josh Howard. I hope we get him after he is an F.A

O/T
Random fact today I put on a headband Josh Howard style.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Premier said:


> I would take Marcus Banks over Ridnour, Barbosa, and Korver in a heart beat.



welllllll i dont know about that...over korver ok...but the other 2 pgs have shown alot more than banks has in their first 2 yrs...especially ridnour


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Does Ridnour play defense?


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Premier said:


> I would take Marcus Banks over Ridnour, Barbosa, and Korver in a heart beat.


Korver is a SF


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Premier said:


> Does Ridnour play defense?


Does Marcus Banks play offense?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Marcus plays eight times as much offense as Ridnour plays defense. Even Dan D1ckau lights up Ridnour.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Gerald Green said:


> Korver is a SF


I'm well aware of that. I'm not arguing better point guards, I'm arguing better players.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

Barbosa is TERRIBLE, he's a SG in a PG body (kinda like Delonte :biggrin: )

I would NEVER take him over Marcus. Ridnour, I liked even before the draft and he's doing very well but I still think more is gonna come out of Marcus this year, he just needs the confidence boost of being named the starter and he will excel.

Mo Williams who went mid second round is way better than Barbosa.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

I'm really pulling for Banks. He's got the tools, he just needs to put it together. Easier said than done, obviously, but nevertheless, I'd like to see him get 'er done.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

P-Dub34 said:


> I'm really pulling for Banks. He's got the tools, he just needs to put it together. Easier said than done, obviously, but nevertheless, I'd like to see him get 'er done.


 Exactly. The guy has all of the skills to be a brilliant player. He just needs to put them together with the fundamentals.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Nobody has mentioned Marquis Daniels as of yet.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Premier said:


> Nobody has mentioned Marquis Daniels as of yet.



haha nice catch...daniels is disgusting...one of my favorite players actually


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## FatMike58 (May 11, 2005)

Gerald Green said:


> Does Marcus Banks play offense?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Is it that funny? As ehmunro mentioned, Marcus Banks plays better offense than Ridnour plays defense. Ridnour is so weak, I bet Delonte could post up on him. Also, other than his shooting, Banks is an above average offensive player.


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

Premier said:


> Is it that funny? As ehmunro mentioned, Marcus Banks plays better offense than Ridnour plays defense. Ridnour is so weak, I bet Delonte could post up on him. Also, other than his shooting, Banks is an above average offensive player.


Ummm. 

What else is thre to offense besides shooting and passing? He can't shoot. He can't pass. The only thing he does even somewhat consistently is make the occasional layup. So how on God's name does that make him an above average offensive player?


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

I've already shown you that he can pass in a thread where you have yet to reply. If you want, check out 82games.com's passing statistics. Banks is a good passer and assists will show that if he gets enough touches.

How about penetrating to draw two defenders to him and passing out to the wide open shooting guard for a three-pointer? How about blowing by defenders with a great first step? How about being able to effectively run a transistion offense? If you believe the only characteristics that make up offensive ability are shooting and passing (and if you believe that Banks "cannot pass") there's is no point in arguing with you as you seem unsusceptible to reason when it comes to any topic that includes Banks.


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

Ridnour passing rating- 10.3
Banks passing rating- 8.7

Yeah, use your 82game stats.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Did I say that Banks was a better passer than Ridnour? While on the topic though, Banks has more assists over every bad pass.

Also, Ridnour isn't _that_ much of a better shooter than Banks.

Also, Ridnour is a terrible defender. He shoots an effective field goal percentage of .447. The opposing point guard shoots an effective field goal percentage of .468. Banks, on the other hand, shoots an effective field goal percentage of .439. The opposing point guard shoots an effective field goal percentage of .402.


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

Ridnour also plays vs. starters. 

Banks plays vs. backups.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Actually that argument (even though it's pretty dense) is flawed. Let's say that the average starting point guard gets 30 minutes a game. That means that backups play 37.5% of the minutes at point guard. To say that Banks only plays backups and Ridnour only plays starters is wrong.

Plus, that is a weak argument.


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

Premier said:


> Actually that argument (even though it's pretty dense0 is flawed. Let's say that the average starting point guard gets 30 minutes a game. That means that backups play 37.5% of the minutes at point guard. To say that Banks only plays backups and Ridnour only plays starters is wrong.
> 
> Plus, that is a weak argument.


Yeah cause your argument is real strong. Let's go by assist/ bad pass ratio for a guy that averaged 1.9 assists per game.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

No, my argument is that Banks is a better offensive player than Ridnour is a defensive player. I used that assist/bad pass ratio because you stated that Banks "cannot pass" which can be easily refuted by that statistics.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

Wooooo calm down guys :eek8:


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

[start_rant]Well, first off all this board is dead. 

second of all, Banner17 stole my thread. 

I was going to start the exact same thread. :curse:

[/end_rant]


Danny has really gotten the most out of the spots where we were picking, and I don't think we could have done any better. (Save for getting someone else instead of Delonte,  )

2003: Banks was a great pick. There's simply no other point guard that would have been a better fit for this team. Perkins was a monster choice for the 27th pick. Brandon Hunter, 56 baby, 56.

2004: Jefferson coming to the Celtics was amazing. Allen/West were picks I didn't like but learned to love one part of it. Allen is amazing, love the kid. West...yeah well eight out of nine isn't bad in 3 years. REED = L33T

2005: Green was a no brainer. From the scouting reports this kid is amazing, and the best thing is people are really starting to give the Celtics credit for their drafting...and the fanbase is starting to expand. Gomes is also a very solid pick. Most sites had him going in the firstst round and we got him in the mid second. It's amazing....Greene? Don't know much about him, so seven out of nine isn't bad so far....

If I were to rank them once all their career's are over...I'd go with

Al Jefferson at number one. It's clear that he'll be something special.

Allen at number two. He hit the rookie wall near the end of the season, but he did very well for a rookie.

Banks is number three. I am very high on this guy. He's a very talented player who just needs to get his head straight.

Gomes at number four. As agoo said, this kid sounds like the brother of Eric Williams, which in my book is considered a great pick and will have a great long future ahead of him.

Perkins/Reed. It's a tie. IMO they can both play very big roles on teams that are contenders, but they won't (obviously) be the stars or go to guys. Perkins will play great defense and Reed will play amazing defense. Great combination in my book. 

West. I just don't see this guy ever becoming a starter. All the players I've mentioned so far, can IMO be starting on great teams. West, not so much. If you want to put him at SG or PG, he's a backup at best at either position. I'm not saying he's a bust, he can be useful with his hustle, but he's the one I'd rate of them all. I do love his attitute and desire, I do hope he proves me wrong.

Green/Greene/Hunter. Green I haven't seen play, so I can't comment on him. Greene, I've never heard of, so same with that one. And Hunter, ah well, I love the guy, won't do much though.


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## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

mind you, the only reason why I didn't include Hunter in this thread, is because I managed a restaurant in Athens, OH (Ohio University) while Brandon was a junior there. He was the biggest arrogant *** to my entire staff whenever he came into the restaurant - thought he was the second coming of Barkley. Everytime he acted up, I felt like sayin' hold on fella, you realize you play in the MAC right? 

I say that, but at the same time I got to see Rothlesberger in a game and said to myself, this kid will be a solid NFL quarterback - so there are most certainly some diamond's in the rough of in the MAC conference. As a matter of fact, the voice of Marge Simpson attended OU. 

In truth though, that's the only reason why I ommitted him from the thread - kinda petty, but man that fella rubbed me the wrong way personally and as a player while OU. Loved the couple big rebound games he had in Green in 04', but wasn't sad for a second when he was let go.

There are no money signs in ***.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

banner17 said:


> mind you, the only reason why I didn't include Hunter in this thread, is because I managed a restaurant in Athens, OH (Ohio University) while Brandon was a junior there. He was the biggest arrogant *** to my entire staff whenever he came into the restaurant - thought he was the second coming of Barkley. Everytime he acted up, I felt like sayin' hold on fella, you realize you play in the MAC right?
> 
> I say that, but at the same time I got to see Rothlesberger in a game and said to myself, this kid will be a solid NFL quarterback - so there are most certainly some diamond's in the rough of in the MAC conference. As a matter of fact, the voice of Marge Simpson attended OU.
> 
> In truth though, that's the only reason why I ommitted him from the thread - kinda petty, but man that fella rubbed me the wrong way personally and as a player while OU. Loved the couple big rebound games he had in Green in 04', but wasn't sad for a second when he was let go.


Hunter did have some big rebounding games...which reminds me, anyone remember that he was one of the reasons that triggered Blount to have a 20/20 game? Even Blount was rebounding like a 7 footer instead of a small girl selling lemonades.


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## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

aquaitious said:


> Hunter did have some big rebounding games...which reminds me, anyone remember that he was one of the reasons that triggered Blount to have a 20/20 game? Even Blount was rebounding like a 7 footer instead of a small girl selling lemonades.



wish Jefferson had the same effect on Blount last year as Hunter did in 04. Didn't Marc have a game last year where he played 20 + minutes and didn't score a single point nor grab a single rebound? I think I remember that happening.

anyways...

When the C's had their camp last summer in Burlington and stayed at the hotel I work at, we weren't allowed to address any of the players. I served the entire team breakfast and lunch everyday and I refrained completely from addressing any of them, except for one moment when I said what the heck and extended my hand to Marc and said thanks for coming back. What was I thinking? 

I know my logic at the time though. Blount played pretty darned well during the spring of 04' - I was actually pleased with the signing at the time - thought the green got a steel compared to what was shelled out for the likes of Foyle and Cardinal. Little did I know.....his effort was bond to drop completely off the table once he got that contract.

wish I never shook the man's hand

we're currently trying to get the team back for their camp before next season. needless to say if they do decide to come back, I won't be shaking his hand this time around.


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## Flava_D (Apr 22, 2005)

If we use this 82games.com to rank our youngsters (minus this years draft of course) it looks like: (based on on court v. off court)

1. Justin Reed (+6.3) - team best too!
2. Tony Allen (+5.3)
3. Banks (+1.2)
4. West (+.6)
5. Perk (+.1)
6. Big Al (-2.1) 

These stats are based on a litanany of statistics put together for totally effectiveness and efficiency (thus J. Reed when playing was quite efficient, though he tended to play against guys like Skita and Veal)


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

Flava_D said:


> If we use this 82games.com to rank our youngsters (minus this years draft of course) it looks like: (based on on court v. off court)
> 
> 1. Justin Reed (+6.3) - team best too!
> 2. Tony Allen (+5.3)
> ...


Justin Reed also guarded Kobe Bryant for a stretch in which he cleanly rejected a fade away jumper.

And this appears to be another argument for Banks. As "good" as West is offensively, the team still plays better with Banks on the floor than with West.


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