# vote vote wwek 12 top 25



## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

Time to vote again. Votign ends Monday 10:30pm CDT


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## apelman42 (Apr 8, 2005)

1. Florida
2. Ohio State
3. UCLA
4. Wisconsin
5. North Carolina
6. Texas A&M
7. Butler
8. Pittsburgh
9. Kansas
10. Marquette
11. Nevada
12. Oregon
13. Washington State
14. Memphis
15. Kentucky
16. Vanderbilt
17. Air Force
18. Stanford
19. Indiana
20. Southern Illinois
21. Duke
22. Texas
23. Georgetown
24. USC
25. West Virginia


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

1. Florida
2. Wisconsin
3. UNC
4. UCLA
5. Ohio State
6. Texas A&M
7. Kansas
8. Pitt
9. Memphis
10. Butler
11. Marquette
12. Oregon
13. Nevada
14. Air Force
15. Duke
16. Oklahoma State
17. Indiana
18. Washington State
19. Georgetown
20. Texas
21. Virginia Tech
22. Southern Illinois
23. Virginia
24. Boston College
25. Winthrop


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## DaBruins (Jul 30, 2003)

1. Florida
2. UCLA
3. Wisconsin
4. Ohio St
5. UNC
6. Texas A&M
7. Pitt
8. Butler
9. Kansas
10. Memphis
11. Marquette
12. Nevada
13. Air Force
14. Washington St
15. Oregon
16. Duke
17. USC
18. Oklahoma St
19. Kentucky
20. Alabama
21. So. Illinois
22. Indiana
23. Virginia
24. West Virginia
25. Stanford


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

1. Florida
2. UCLA
3. UNC
4. Ohio St.
5. Wisconsin
6. Texas A&M
7. Pittsburgh
8. Memphis
9. Kansas
10. Butler
11. Duke
12. Air Force
13. Kentucky
14. Marquette
15. Arizona
16. Indiana
17. Oregon
18. Georgetown
19. Washington St.
20. Southern Illinois
21. Notre Dame
22. Nevada
23. Clemson
24. West Virginia
25. USC

Honorable Mention: Oklahoma St., Florida St., Villanova, Alabama, Maryland


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## RR 823 (Mar 29, 2003)

1 Florida
2 UCLA
3 Wisconsin
4 North Carolina
5 Ohio State
6 Texas A&M
7 Kansas
8 Butler
9 Memphis
10 Pittsburgh
11 Nevada
12 Oregon
13 Washington State
14 Air Force
15 Duke
16 Marquette
17 Stanford
18 USC
19 Indiana
20 Southern Illinois
21 Oklahoma State
22 Vanderbilt
23 Virginia
24 Arizona
25 Kentucky


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

My mini-rant of the week...

I kinda touched on this in some thread last week, but...is Nevada really as good as everyone thinks? I'm just baffled as to how people rank this as a top 15 team. If you've seen this team play, you know that they are horrific defensively. Go look at their schedule and find me a team that's ranked in the top 25. You can't. Top 50? You could argue one, maybe two teams. How can you give respect to that? The toughest team they've played all year (UNLV), they lost to at home. Then on Saturday, they needed a review of a foul to get overturned to survive at home to Hawaii by a point. I don't care what their record is, this team isn't as good as everyone thinks. 

On a side note, I can finally put Oklahoma St. outside my top 25 without someone questioning it.


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

1. Florida
2. UCLA
3. Ohio State
4. Wisconsin
5. Pitt
6. Texas A&M
7. Butler
8. Kansas
9. UNC
10. Air Force
11. Nevada
12. Marquette
13. Memphis
14. Washington State
15. Oregon
16. Kentucky
17. Vanderbilt
18. Indiana
19. Southern Illinois
20. Duke
21. Alabama
22. Virginia Commonwealth
23. Georgetown
24. Notre Dame
25. Virginia


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## apelman42 (Apr 8, 2005)

At a neutral court against Cal when they had their big guy (Hardin), and at Gonzaga. Those are two pretty solid wins as far as I'm concerned. If Cal had Hardin they'd be a tournament team, and anybody that wins at Gonzaga should be considered a top 15 team. That place has to be one of the toughest if not THE toughest place to play.

Also, I don't care who you play, when you go 21-2 in your first 23 games and have only one road loss, you deserve some credibility...most notably top 15 status.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

apelman42 said:


> At a neutral court against Cal when they had their big guy (Hardin), and at Gonzaga. Those are two pretty solid wins as far as I'm concerned. If Cal had Hardin they'd be a tournament team, and anybody that wins at Gonzaga should be considered a top 15 team. That place has to be one of the toughest if not THE toughest place to play.
> 
> Also, I don't care who you play, when you go 21-2 in your first 23 games and have only one road loss, you deserve some credibility...most notably top 15 status.


Find me a team in the top 25 that doesn't have a at least two pretty solid wins. C'mon, Cal's garbage, and that Gonzaga game was on a neutral court. 

Might as well rank Virginia Commonwealth in the top 15, too.

Let's be serious, if Nevada had played say Florida St.'s schedule, for example, you think they would have 5 or less losses right now? Do they really deserve to be ranked ahead of Oregon and Air Force?


Hopefully Fresno St. just beats up on them on Thursday and then Nevada will fall in the polls.


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## DaBruins (Jul 30, 2003)

coolpohle said:


> Find me a team in the top 25 that doesn't have a at least two pretty solid wins. C'mon, Cal's garbage, and that Gonzaga game was on a neutral court.
> 
> Might as well rank Virginia Commonwealth in the top 15, too.
> 
> ...


Honestly, your rankings dont make much sense either. Duke, Arizona, Indiana (I don't get the hype about them), Georgetown, and Clemson are all too high IMO. Oregon and Washington St are too low. If you think Arizona is the 2nd best Pac 10 team, I dont know what to say.


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## apelman42 (Apr 8, 2005)

coolpohle said:


> Find me a team in the top 25 that doesn't have a at least two pretty solid wins. C'mon, Cal's garbage, and that Gonzaga game was on a neutral court.
> 
> Might as well rank Virginia Commonwealth in the top 15, too.
> 
> ...


Cal's not garbage man. Take away a DJ White away from Indiana and see how Indiana fares. That's what Cal is going through.
As for the Gonzaga game, I didn't know it was a neutral court. I still think Gonzaga is a solid team but I do take away some of the credibility from Nevada for that game.
Fine, if Nevada's bad, they'll lose to Fresno St. this week and I'll drop them down severely.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

coolpohle said:


> My mini-rant of the week...
> 
> I kinda touched on this in some thread last week, but...is Nevada really as good as everyone thinks? I'm just baffled as to how people rank this as a top 15 team. If you've seen this team play, you know that they are horrific defensively. Go look at their schedule and find me a team that's ranked in the top 25. You can't. Top 50? You could argue one, maybe two teams. How can you give respect to that? The toughest team they've played all year (UNLV), they lost to at home. Then on Saturday, they needed a review of a foul to get overturned to survive at home to Hawaii by a point. I don't care what their record is, this team isn't as good as everyone thinks.
> 
> On a side note, I can finally put Oklahoma St. outside my top 25 without someone questioning it.


How can you possibly rank Wisconsin at #5? They have been just as good/better than UNC and both lost last week. Wisconsin with the "better" loss. How are the Badgers below Ohio State who they beat. I see you are from the state, so you KNOW that despite the final score the Badgers beat the piss out of the Buckeyes.

And also, using your own logic, how can you put Air Force over Marquette? Marquette has a slew of big wins and have been running the Big East the past few weeks; who have air Force beat? Texas Tech is the best team on there I see, but they aren't in your top 25. Stanford is a nice win, but it was in November. It is effectively meaningless in my book. Marquette has been just as good (if not better) in the Big East than Air Force has been in the Mountain West. They don't have a loss as bad as North Dakota State, but again that was December 2. How much can that honestly affect your rankings?


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## YoungMufan34 (Dec 1, 2006)

1. Florida
2. Wisconsin
3. UNC
4. UCLA
5. Ohio State
6. Texas A&M
7. Kansas
8. Marquette
9. Memphis
10. Pitt
11. Oregon
12. Butler
13. Nevada
14. Air Force
15. Duke
16. Oklahoma State
17. Washington State
18. Georgetown
19. Indiana
20. Texas
21. Southern Illinois
22. USC
23. Kentucky
24. WVU
25. Bama


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

DaBruins said:


> Honestly, your rankings dont make much sense either. Duke, Arizona, Indiana (I don't get the hype about them), Georgetown, and Clemson are all too high IMO. Oregon and Washington St are too low. If you think Arizona is the 2nd best Pac 10 team, I dont know what to say.


No question, those teams you mentioned are definitely higher than most people think they should be. However, right now, after the teams I have ranked in the top 10, you can really make a case for anyone. 

Duke is one of the best defensive teams in the country and has beaten another top 15 team (Air Force) by double digits on a neutral court.

Arizona's ranking is being punished by a lot of people because they had to go through a nasty part of their schedule. Can you make a really strong case that Oregon and Washington St. are better? I'm not sure

Indiana's one of my favorite teams. Out of their four losses, four are on the road, and the other was by 5 points to Butler on a neutral court. All of their losses are by single digits, too. Plus, they beat Wisconsin. They're for real.

All of Georgetown's losses are to tournament teams (except maybe Old Dominion). They've won each of their last five games by double digits and have won at Michigan and at Vanderbilt. A solid team, IMO. 

I don't love Clemson, but again, can you really make a strong case for other teams to be ranked ahead of them? The loss at Virginia was unexpected, but everyone has a couple losses throughout the year in games they should've won. They've won at Florida St.,and have also dominated Georgia and Boston College.

Who is the 2nd best team in the Pac-10? I think you can make a case for several teams. It's not like Washington St. doesn't have shaky losses, too. They lost at home to Oregon and also lost to Utah. Not to mention, their record looks a lot better than they really are because they played a cakewalk non conference SOS. I don't know if Oregon is good enough defensively to be considered the 2nd best in the Pac-10. UCLA dominated them Thursday and they lost at home to USC. Again, it's tough to say right now.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Nimreitz said:


> How can you possibly rank Wisconsin at #5? They have been just as good/better than UNC and both lost last week. Wisconsin with the "better" loss. How are the Badgers below Ohio State who they beat. I see you are from the state, so you KNOW that despite the final score the Badgers beat the piss out of the Buckeyes.
> 
> And also, using your own logic, how can you put Air Force over Marquette? Marquette has a slew of big wins and have been running the Big East the past few weeks; who have air Force beat? Texas Tech is the best team on there I see, but they aren't in your top 25. Stanford is a nice win, but it was in November. It is effectively meaningless in my book. Marquette has been just as good (if not better) in the Big East than Air Force has been in the Mountain West. They don't have a loss as bad as North Dakota State, but again that was December 2. How much can that honestly affect your rankings?


Wisconsin's 4th in both polls, so I don't think it's a stretch to have them at 5. I love UNC this year-they've just got such great depth and I love how they run the floor. I don't really think you can make a strong case one way or the other on who should be ranked higher. 

Ohio St. is ranked #4 because they've only got 3 losses-all on the road to UNC, Florida, and Wisconsin. And they've dominated at Purdue and at Michigan St. 

Air Force didn't just beat Stanford, they embarrased them by 34 points on their home court. I don't care when it was. They didn't just beat Texas Tech. They dominated them. They won at Colorado by 38 points. Go ask Oklahoma St. how easy it is to do that. They beat UNLV at home, something Nevada couldn't do. In their last two wins, they've won by a combined 78 points. They aren't squeaking by teams like Nevada is. That's the difference. Marquette lost by 12 at home to Syracuse, too.


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## Yoyo (Oct 16, 2005)

Last week's rankings in parentheses if changed.

1. Florida
2. UCLA (4)
3. Ohio State (5)
4. Wisconsin (2)
5. North Carolina (3)
6. Texas A&M (8)
7. Butler
8. Pittsburgh (10)
9. Memphis (12)
10. Kansas (6)
11. Marquette (14)
12. Oregon (9)
13. Nevada (15)
14. Air Force (17)
15. Washington State (22)
16. Oklahoma State (11)
17. Stanford (20)
18. Southern Illinois (24)
19. Alabama (NR)
20. Kentucky (NR)
21. Duke (13)
22. Vanderbilt
22. Texas (19)
23. Georgetown (NR)
24. USC (NR)
25. Arizona

Dropped out: #16 Virginia Tech, #18 Notre Dame, #23 UNLV


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

1 UCLA
2 Florida
3 Ohio State
4 Wisconsin
5 Pittsburgh
6 UNC
7 Butler
8 Texas A&M
9 Kansas
10 Air Force
11 Marquette
12 Nevada
13 Memphis
14 Washington State
15 Oregon
16 Vanderbilt
17 USC
18 Souther Illinois
19 Georgetown
20 Clemson
21 Kansas State
22 Virginia
23 Va Tech
24 Arizona
25 Oklahoma State


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

1. Florida
2. UCLA
3. Ohio State
4. Wisconsin
5. Carolina
6. Texas A&M
7. Memphis
8. Pitt
9. Kansas
10. Marquette
11. Nevada
12. Butler
13. Washington State
14. Air Force
15. Oregon
16. Duke
17. USC
18. Kentucky
19. Oklahoma State
20. Alabama
21. Southern Illinois
22. Stanford
23. Virginia
24. Texas
25. Arizona


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## DaBruins (Jul 30, 2003)

coolpohle said:


> No question, those teams you mentioned are definitely higher than most people think they should be. However, right now, after the teams I have ranked in the top 10, you can really make a case for anyone.
> 
> Duke is one of the best defensive teams in the country and has beaten another top 15 team (Air Force) by double digits on a neutral court.
> 
> ...


Arizona's defense is worse than Oregon's. I think you give out too many bad losses - losing to Oregon at home is not a bad loss no matter who you are. I think the bottom third of the top 25 is hard to rank right now.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Yeah, you're prolly right there, but then again, I'd say Arizona's better offensively. It's not a bad bad loss, but you're supposed to protect your home court. It's a game you're supposed to win.


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

kansasalumn said:


> 1 UCLA
> 2 Florida
> 3 Ohio State
> 4 Wisconsin
> ...


Wow ka, no love for Duke or Kentucky this week?


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Doesn't look like he likes defensive teams very much, hence why he's got Oklahoma St. ranked. Hard to win any March Madness pools with that mindset.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

coolpohle said:


> My mini-rant of the week...
> 
> I kinda touched on this in some thread last week, but...is Nevada really as good as everyone thinks? I'm just baffled as to how people rank this as a top 15 team. If you've seen this team play, you know that they are horrific defensively. Go look at their schedule and find me a team that's ranked in the top 25. You can't. Top 50? You could argue one, maybe two teams. How can you give respect to that? The toughest team they've played all year (UNLV), they lost to at home. Then on Saturday, they needed a review of a foul to get overturned to survive at home to Hawaii by a point. I don't care what their record is, this team isn't as good as everyone thinks.
> 
> On a side note, I can finally put Oklahoma St. outside my top 25 without someone questioning it.


Alternatively...

You seem to be ranting about lack of quality wins.

Explain the case for me for Memphis as #8.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

coolpohle said:


> Find me a team in the top 25 that doesn't have a at least two pretty solid wins. C'mon, Cal's garbage, and that Gonzaga game was on a neutral court.


Memphis is #8 on your list, and they only have one top 50 win.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

Memphis' best win is over Kentucky on a neutral court by 12 points. 
Nevada's best win is over Gonzaga on a neutral court by 8 points.

In conference play, Nevada has won 4 of 10 games by double digits.
In conference play, Memphis has won 8 of 9 games by double digits. 

Memphis is one of the best defensive teams in the country.
Nevada is one of the worst ranked defensive teams in the country.

I don't think it's very difficult to see that Memphis > Nevada


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

BlueBaron said:


> Wow ka, no love for Duke or Kentucky this week?


Forgot about Duke this week, didnot forgot UK.


However there is no love for Kansas state either

been very busy, top 25 will be posted tongiht


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

coolpohle said:


> Memphis' best win is over Kentucky on a neutral court by 12 points.
> Nevada's best win is over Gonzaga on a neutral court by 8 points.
> 
> In conference play, Nevada has won 4 of 10 games by double digits.
> ...


I never argued that Memphis was not greater then Nevada.

I am simply bringing up the point that there are many ways to evaluate the worthiness of a team (like you have done above). You can't simply state that a team does not have enough quality wins and therefore cannot be top 15. (becuase you have your own counterexample... and I agree memphis is top 15)


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

kansasalumn said:


> However there is no love for Kansas state either


Becuase there not a top 25 team.. its relatively simple./


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

kansasalumn said:


> However there is no love for Kansas state either


Becuase there not a top 25 team.. its relatively simple.

There getting close somewhere in the 30-40 range/


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Im not going to give a top 25 b/c I dont fel like it right now but Texas A and M is a top 5 team at the moment.


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## coolpohle (Dec 28, 2006)

My point though is that while Memphis may only have one solid win, you can't really punish them because they are beating the crap out of everyone in the Conference USA. Nevada is squeaking by the teams in their conference and haven't beaten anybody close to Kentucky's caliber. That's the difference.


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## BlueBaron (May 11, 2003)

*Re: vote vote week 12 top 25*



kansasalumn said:


> Forgot about Duke this week, didnot forgot UK.
> 
> 
> However there is no love for Kansas state either
> ...


:sadbanana: :boohoo2:


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## apelman42 (Apr 8, 2005)

*Re: vote vote week 12 top 25*



 BlueBaron said:


> :sadbanana: :boohoo2:


HAHA. I know the feeling Blue.


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