# Official UNC Tar Heels National Champions/ Big 10 Champions Celebration Thread



## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

Haters, get out. Yeah, you know who you are. 

GO HEELS


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

I've been waiting 10 years for this :biggrin:


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## max powers (Aug 3, 2004)

5-0 versus the Big Ten (against probably the five best teams)UNC really should get that conference title.

Last time they won I was a high school senior and went up to Frankiln Street and partied till six in the morning. Tonight I'm out of state, man I wish I was back in Chapel Hill.


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## Gambino (Feb 11, 2004)

congratulations UNC. Picked them in October and picked them to win it all in every one of my brackets. :biggrin:


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## Kunlun (Jun 22, 2003)

I've been rooting for UNC the whole year and I picked them to win the Championship too. The main reason I've been cheering for North Carolina this season is because of Marvin Williams, I've really liked since I heard about from SLAM a couple years ago and have followed him since. I'm glad to see him succeed and I hope he does well where ever he chooses to go, NBA or stay in college. Personally, I would want to see him stay in school at least one more year and show what he can do as a starter.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

*Best Team in the World Baby, The Bobcats should changes his names to Tar Heels,
Im so Happy that I could cry* :bbanana:


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## FreeSpeech101 (Jul 30, 2004)

Best team money can buy!


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## DwyaneWade4MVP (Apr 1, 2004)

Congrats to the UNC Tar Heels!


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## KJay (Sep 22, 2002)

I'm happy for you guys. Now don't win another title until ku does.


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## apelman2 (Jan 16, 2004)

HeinzGuderian said:


> Haters, get out. Yeah, you know who you are.
> 
> GO HEELS


......Okay playa


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## vadimivich (Mar 29, 2004)

Just for apelman:










IS IT IN YOU?


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

No hate here, just upset 

Congrats Heels!!


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## On Thre3 (Nov 26, 2003)

Man im so happy, I had been a converted tar heel fan(from atheist) since the 6th grade, and that was when their season was going down hill. To go through all those seasons and come back with a national championship is amazing. This has been my favorite group of carolina players of all time and it was so great to see them , as they deserved this so much, especially those senoirs.

Btw can anyone make a 2005 nationall champions wall paper(preferably one with the players celebrating) itd be great if you could thanks


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## apelman2 (Jan 16, 2004)

max powers said:


> 5-0 versus the Big Ten (against probably the five best teams)UNC really should get that conference title.
> 
> Last time they won I was a high school senior and went up to Frankiln Street and partied till six in the morning. Tonight I'm out of state, man I wish I was back in Chapel Hill.



Please, no masked swearing, no name-calling. Anyone who says they deserve the Big10 title is just edit. If you wanna play that way, why don't you count the number of conference champions that Illinois beat during their season....some come to mind....Gonzaga(WCC), UWM(Horizon), Louisville(CUSA), Arizona (Pac10 champs)....Michigan State beat Duke (ACC Tourney Champs), Kentucky (SEC Champs)

So please dude, don't say stuff that's absolutely ludacris like that, it's pointless.

BTW, the ACC is better than the Big10


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## X-Factor (Aug 24, 2004)

Congrats UNC


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## adarsh1 (May 28, 2003)

apelman2 said:


> You're a ****ing idiot. Anyone who says they deserve the Big10 title is just being stupid. If you wanna play that way, why don't you count the number of conference champions that Illinois beat during their season....some come to mind....Gonzaga(WCC), UWM(Horizon), Louisville(CUSA), Arizona (Pac10 champs)....Michigan State beat Duke (ACC Tourney Champs), Kentucky (SEC Champs)
> 
> So please dude, don't say stuff that's absolutely ludacris like that, it's pointless.
> 
> BTW, the ACC is better than the Big10


Using your own logic, UNC then should be the owner of the WCC title, Horizon league title, Conference USA title, Pac 10 title, etc... and THE BIG TEN TITLE :biggrin:


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## X-Factor (Aug 24, 2004)

apelman2 said:


> You're a ****ing idiot. Anyone who says they deserve the Big10 title is just being stupid. If you wanna play that way, why don't you count the number of conference champions that Illinois beat during their season....some come to mind....Gonzaga(WCC), UWM(Horizon), Louisville(CUSA), Arizona (Pac10 champs)....Michigan State beat Duke (ACC Tourney Champs), Kentucky (SEC Champs)
> 
> So please dude, don't say stuff that's absolutely ludacris like that, it's pointless.
> 
> BTW, the ACC is better than the Big10


Don't hate apelman he was just joking... someone's mad their team didn't win. My team didn't even make it to the NCAA Tournament...
Beware the 2005-2006 National Champions the *Florida State Seminoles*


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## StraylightRunner (Aug 14, 2003)

My teams are Syracuse and UNC. 'Cuse first, but still, very big congrats to the Tar Heels.

I hope Marvin and Felton stay. That'd be awesome. I hope McCants will stay, too, but if I had to choose, I'd want either MW or Felton back over McCants. And Marcus Ginyard next year, that's gonna be awesome.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

apelman2 said:


> BTW, the ACC is better than the Big10


 :clap: 

apelman, i knew i liked you


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## apelman2 (Jan 16, 2004)

adarsh1 said:


> Using your own logic, UNC then should be the owner of the WCC title, Horizon league title, Conference USA title, Pac 10 title, etc... and THE BIG TEN TITLE :biggrin:


Dude, if you read carefully it isn't my logic, it's his logic.


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## apelman2 (Jan 16, 2004)

TonyM said:


> :clap:
> 
> apelman, i knew i liked you



Lol, you're a Duke fan Tony? I don't know how you can stand losing to Carolina. It's prolly the same way I feel when we lose to Marquette.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Ya, but I'm one of those strange people who cheer more for players than I do a team. Losing to UNC stinks, but I'm usually over it within the next 12hrs.


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## max powers (Aug 3, 2004)

> You're a ****ing idiot. Anyone who says they deserve the Big10 title is just being stupid


I think you took me too literally my point was simply that *UNC completely owned the Big Ten this year beating five of six of their best teams*. See I don't actually believe the Illini should hand over their conference title but rather I was making a figurative statement representing UNC's dominance of Big Ten teams (do you understand now?). Usually I wouldn't gloat but the haters are getting annoying, this is the UNC celebration thread.


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## apelman2 (Jan 16, 2004)

max powers said:


> I think you took me too literally my point was simply that *UNC completely owned the Big Ten this year beating five of six of their best teams*. See I don't actually believe the Illini should hand over their conference title but rather I was making a figurative statement representing UNC's dominance of Big Ten teams (do you understand now?). Usually I wouldn't gloat but the haters are getting annoying, this is the UNC celebration thread.



I understood the first time and it's still oblivious to state something National Champs/Big 10 Champs. I don't care how much you don't like haters, you don't claim another conferences clown. In order to beat three of our best teams you guys had to make it to the elite 8. I think it's more impressive that 3 of our teams were lined up for UNC rather than UNC beating those 3 teams.

"Haters are getting annoying"......Haters huh? Cool use of word you cool *** PLAYA.


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## Im The One (Sep 1, 2002)

We are the Champions! No time for Losers cus' we are the champions.

Get Down :wbanana:


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## FSH (Aug 3, 2002)

Who run was better to championship Syracuse 2 year ago beatting all of Big 12 good teams in tourny or UNC this year with big 10


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

Since this is the "offical" one I can only say go UNC here? :laugh:

Its great that UNC won the title, and whats even better, Duke didn't make the Final Four :yes:

If we get one or two players to come back out of May, Marvin and Felton we will be just fine.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

OZZY said:


> Since this is the "offical" one I can only say go UNC here? :laugh:
> 
> Its great that UNC won the title, and whats even better, Duke didn't make the Final Four :yes:
> 
> If we get one or two players to come back out of May, Marvin and Felton we will be just fine.


Duke got hit with the early entry bug this year.

Now the same thing may happen to UNC.

If Shelden stays, Duke is going to be _very_ solid next season.


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## flyerfanatic (Nov 15, 2003)

The Truth said:


> Duke got hit with the early entry bug this year.
> 
> Now the same thing may happen to UNC.
> 
> If Shelden stays, Duke is going to be _very_ solid next season.


Have you heard anything about the chances of him staying/leaving?


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

flyerfanatic said:


> Have you heard anything about the chances of him staying/leaving?


News on Shel has been quiet so far.

Yyzlin said that the rumor on the Duke campus is that he's staying.

But who knows?


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## apelman42 (Apr 8, 2005)

OZZY said:


> That is what I would say when you know for a fact I am right.
> 
> Oh and yeah, I like the Gopher dance team because I find women in two-piece spandex dancing to be very sexy. I also "like" Britney Spears because of her singing RIGHT, no her dancing again is very sexy and she is sexy so I "like" her. Oh but I am gay because I like the Gophers dance team? See being gay would be if I liked a mens dance team if that even exists, you realize that? And I always like a winner as well, and to win back-to-back national championships in dance, I think that is damn impressive. Winning is winning, simple as that no matter what it is in.
> 
> ...



Just a year ago this kid was bragging about his Minnesota DANCE team and now he claims he is a UNC Tar Heel fan from Minnesota?!?!?! 




OZZY said:


> Since this is the "offical" one I can only say go UNC here? :laugh:
> 
> Its great that UNC won the title, and whats even better, Duke didn't make the Final Four :yes:
> 
> If we get one or two players to come back out of May, Marvin and Felton we will be just fine.


Please no masked swearing


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

> Just a year ago this kid was bragging about his Minnesota DANCE team and now he claims he is a UNC Tar Heel fan from Minnesota?!?!?!


Bottled up rage from a Cheese Head, :nonono: 

I don't think there is a rule where you could only like one team, and if there is that is news to me.


Speak of the Dance Team, guess who one the National Championship again! :clap: :banana: :djparty: 










But yeah, I have always been a Tar Heel fan, did you notice I had a Raymond Felton avatar last year? Guess not, guess you thought that was one of the members of the dance team. He sure put on some moves against Wisconsin though:laugh:


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

Awesome, I just heard that Sean May said he might be coming back next year. When looking at McCants, Felton, Marvin, and May....I hope we at least keep two of those players ideally. Taking McCants word for it, lets say he is leaving, so that leaves May, Marvin and Felton left. If Marvin and May come back next year, that would rock.


Recruits for next year:

SG Danny Green 6-5/180- Good SG, nice size, good build, solid overall game and will be with UNC for at least 3-4 years which is a very good thing. 

PF Tyler Hansbrough 6-9/225- Big man, will be either the backup or the starter depending on if Marvin stays, if May leaves and Marvin leaves you might see a Tyler Hansbrough, Marvin Williams frontcourt which would be awesome. Should be a very solid post man for UNC and is a hard working with a good frame.

SG Bobby Frasor 6-3/175- Good outside shooter, not a outstanding player but could provide good stability as a PG/SG and provide outside shooting since McCants is leaving also.	

SG Marcus Ginyard 6-4/175- Have never see him play, but I hope he can play some PG along with SG.


The best part about this class is guys like Green and Frasor will be here almost all 4 years no doubt. That will provide good stability for the team, just like Maunel, Scott and Jawad did.


Returning players that have potential outside of the obvious ones.

Reyshawn Terry- Probably the most talented young guy on the team outside of the blue chip players. Really improved this year and made big plays in big games. Look for him to have even a bigger role next year.

David Noel- Great defender, that is obvious, will be good to have him back because he will help to solid up the defense since Manuel is gone. He has expanded his shooting range and should continue to do that next year, and as always can make explosive athletic players that energize the team.

Quentin Thomas- I think he is a solid guard, is quick, fast and has potential. Did not play great this year but is a solid player.

Damion Grant/Byron Sanders- Ok one of these guys have to do something, come on, how can't they? Grant is huge and Sanders has saw some action. Hopefully at least one of them provides some ok mins next season.

PG Frasor
SG Green
SF Noel
PF Hansbrough
C Grant


Yeah it will be rough if they all leave, well lets take McCants is a sure go, and say May also, then you have.

PG Felton
SG Green
SF Noel
PF M. Williams
C Hansbrough

or it May comes back and Marvin and Felton leave.

PG Frasor
SG Green
SF Noel
PF Hansbrough
C May

or if May and Marvin come back but Felton leaves.

PG Frasor
SG Green
SF M. Williams
PF Hansbrough
C May


Ideally Felton coming back would help the most, but as long as one of the players out of May, Marvin and Felton come back I will be happy.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

OZZY said:


> Bottled up rage from a Cheese Head, :nonono:
> 
> I don't think there is a rule where you could only like one team, and if there is that is news to me.
> 
> ...


I can attest to Ozzy always being a UNC fan.

I used to have epic Duke-UNC arguments with him back in the day at nbadraft.net.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

> I used to have epic Duke-UNC arguments with him back in the day at nbadraft.net.


Speaking of epic battles, I hate it that Duke is going to be awesome next year.


PG Paulus (Dockery)
SG Redick (Nelson)
SF McRoberts (Melchionni) (McClure)
PF Randolph (Boykin)
C Boateng


They will be weak up front but not if Williams comes back, and that lineup is without Williams. If they get anything out of Randolph in the post they will be just awesome, and McRoberts could play the SF or PF and be a hell of a match up problem as a PF. With all those players back, hate to say it but Duke will be really good next year. Only thing I hate is that people are going to say "look at all those white guys" I know it for a fact, my friend sure will, and people say racism is over :nonono: 

But yeah Duke is going to be really good, but if one of the players out of May, Felton and Marvin come back, guess who is going to be good as well :yes:


Duke does get quality guys, but I guess its hard not to when your a prepy rich kid school. And for coach K to be really great, he has to start to produce some better NBA talent. That is all he has left, because either those players are big time chokers, or coach K just made them that good. But take Jason Williams, you know his best years were at Duke and as a scout I do not like like that, a player should want to be his best against the best in the NBA. Although, Deng has been good and Grant Hill on him comeback:yes:


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

Come one now - Shane Battier (10ppg, 5reb, 40% 3pt), Elton Brand (19.7ppg, 9.6reb, 2bpg), Corey Maggette (22.2ppg, 6reb, 3.4apg), Carlos Boozer (17.8ppg, 9rbs), and, last and probably least, Chris Duhon (5.5ppg, 4.8apg, 2.6rpb). Now, did you honestly think Duhon would even _make it_ in the NBA, let alone start? Granted, we are talking the Bulls, but they're at least on a slow road to recovery.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

Ozzy,

I will get very angry discussing this with you, so I may just bow out of this conversation after this post. My post had nothing to do with Coach K and sending players to the NBA, but of course you had to throw this in here.



> Duke does get quality guys, but I guess its hard not to when your a prepy rich kid school.


This is ridiculous. How does being a preppy rich kid school make it easy to get quality guys? Do you really want me to list the number of preppy rich schools without good basketball programs? How does being a preppy rich kid school affect recruiting for the basketball program?



> And for coach K to be really great, he has to start to produce some better NBA talent.


Give me a break. For coach K to be great? You can't even concede that he's a great coach? Almost anyone who is not delusioned by their bias will tell you that Coach K is the best coach in the country, yet you can't even admit that he's great. Do I really need to list all of his accomplishments to hammer home my point?

And as far as better NBA talent, show me an active coach today who has produced more NBA talent as K. That is ridiculous. Coach K has put more guys in the NBA in the last decade than any coach in the country.

How many great NBA players has 'ole Roy produced?

And don't even go the Jason Williams route. We have NO IDEA how good he would have been. Yes, he started his rookie season slowly, but much of that had to do with being improperly utilized by his moron of a coach, who was fired soon after. Williams was playing great basketball (and the Bulls were winning) toward the end of his rookie season.

It is even harder for college programs to produce superstar talent nowadays, when most of the superstar talent head directly to the NBA.



> a player should want to be his best against the best in the NBA


What are you talking about Ozzy? What player doesn't "want" to be his best in the NBA?

I can see that little has changed...you make oversimplified and half-baked arguments without any support whatsoever.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

> Now, did you honestly think Duhon would even make it in the NBA, let alone start?


Well I did like Duhon as a prospect and him doing well is not surprising.



> And Chris Duhon is a better PG than Kirk and Luke, he playes defense, and sorry you can't find PG's that play defense that tight to often.


^ I said this, obviously I did not have him above Kirk when the draft rolled around because Kirk rose his level of play, but as you can see I did like Duhon in college.



> My post had nothing to do with Coach K and sending players to the NBA, but of course you had to throw this in here.


Hey man, its positive and negatives. I said a LOT of freaking positive things about Duke, so to keep the power balance I had to say some things bad, because if it was all good, I would look like a Duke fan:laugh:




> This is ridiculous. How does being a preppy rich kid school make it easy to get quality guys? Do you really want me to list the number of preppy rich schools without good basketball programs? How does being a preppy rich kid school affect recruiting for the basketball program?


All of the kids that go to Duke are very smart young men, they get great SAT scores and are just flat out smart. To become smart, I also feel you need to have the resources and schooling to model that intelligence, and most Duke players have that. Its a biased opinion, but I am just comparing private schools, any school that requires around $30,000 is for smart rich kids because no college student can pay that kind of tuition so obviously they either have a scholarship or their parents pay. Yes I know UNC is the same way, but its not as brainie of a school compared to Duke, who is supposedly at or near the top in that category. But Steve Spurrier, he coached at Duke and said coaching there was easier because the players were already smart and hard working because just look at the academic success they had, they had character traits, and that is what I was getting at there.

And while I am on a rant, speaking of recruiting, why is that coach K comercial for American Express not a recruiting violation? Answer me this, he talks about his program, creating good men for the future, not being all about basketball and being a well rounded coach. Honestly that comercial is not going to be seen much longer because it is a major recruiting violation because it has NOTHING to do with American Express.




> It is even harder for college programs to produce superstar talent nowadays, when most of the superstar talent head directly to the NBA.


Even more reason Duke is better because of it, because the only players that will stay in school and not make the jump are kids that are smart and like school. Look at McRoberts, if he was not as bright as he is, no way would be be going to college. If he was a average student going to say Louisville and he performed the same in the McDonalds game, he would be as good as gone.



> And as far as better NBA talent, show me an active coach today who has produced more NBA talent as K. That is ridiculous. Coach K has put more guys in the NBA in the last decade than any coach in the country.


Kind of the Bobby Knight thing, sure he has won in college but who has he coached that has become great? Honestly, what Isaiah Thomas and that is it.

And yes I know, UNC will forever beat Duke in this just because of Michael Jordan :laugh: But still, comparing programs in NBA talent, there is not comparison.

As far as Roy Williams goes, I was more comparing programs not so much coaches. And yeah, you don't want me to go through the great UNC players in the NBA.




> What are you talking about Ozzy? What player doesn't "want" to be his best in the NBA?


Apparently Duke players, because honestly I have noticed they are not always as motivated and passionate as they were in college. Sure some are but some are absolutely not. Take Jason Williams, it was pathetic, he was a vocal learder in college, during his time in the NBA, he was nothing like that at all, maybe it was a transition thing but who knows. I just find it to be that once they leave coach K, Duke players sometimes take a step back and are not as motivated. But I guess thats a credit to coach K then.

I am stating my opinion, of course its biased because I dislike Duke. But also remember I liked Duhon, Boozer and currently like Shelden Williams a lot, Redick is solid and like McRoberts as well for next year. I hate them, I always will but I know they have solid players, just when comparing schools I will always go on the side of UNC :yes:


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

OZZY said:


> Take Jason Williams, it was pathetic, he was a vocal learder in college, during his time in the NBA, he was nothing like that at all, maybe it was a transition thing but who knows. I just find it to be that once they leave coach K, Duke players sometimes take a step back and are not as motivated. But I guess thats a credit to coach K then.


You're an overpaid, vetran and this little punk from duke comes in and starts trying to lead a nba team. he's slappin the floor and yellin out orders. what would your reaction be? Williams stated multiple times that he was going to try to lead through his play before going out there and bossing people around. "take a step back and are not as motivated." examples, please.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

OZZY said:


> Well I did like Duhon as a prospect and him doing well is not surprising.
> 
> ^ I said this, obviously I did not have him above Kirk when the draft rolled around because Kirk rose his level of play, but as you can see I did like Duhon in college.
> 
> ...


Ozzy, this is absolutely ridiculous. Its just your way of bypassing giving Coach K credit. Instead of saying Coach K is a great coach, you say that he gets players that are easily coached because they are solid kids.

If we were to apply this ridiculous logic elsewhere, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc. would win the national championship every year. Those schools don't give out accademic scholarships, so their players have to be accepted to the school based solely on accademic merit. Those players are some of the best and brightest people in the nation, yet none of these teams ever compete for a title.




> Even more reason Duke is better because of it, because the only players that will stay in school and not make the jump are kids that are smart and like school. Look at McRoberts, if he was not as bright as he is, no way would be be going to college. If he was a average student going to say Louisville and he performed the same in the McDonalds game, he would be as good as gone.


This is all illogical babble based on your flawed premise presented above.





> And yes I know, UNC will forever beat Duke in this just because of Michael Jordan :laugh: But still, comparing programs in NBA talent, there is not comparison.
> 
> As far as Roy Williams goes, I was more comparing programs not so much coaches. And yeah, you don't want me to go through the great UNC players in the NBA.


If you compare Duke and UNC players over the last 10 years, it is actually very close.




> Apparently Duke players, because honestly I have noticed they are not always as motivated and passionate as they were in college.
> Sure some are but some are absolutely not. *Take Jason Williams, it was pathetic, he was a vocal learder in college, during his time in the NBA, he was nothing like that at all, maybe it was a transition thing but who knows.* I just find it to be that once they leave coach K, Duke players sometimes take a step back and are not as motivated. But I guess thats a credit to coach K then.


This is bordering on absurd. First of all, you never even watched the Bulls when Jason played at Chicago, so you have no idea what you are talking about. Jason _tried_ his damndest to be the vocal leader, but he was constantly being muzzled by his coach and the veteran players on his team. He was criticized by his teammates and the press for being _too_ vocal.

Really, you shouldn't argue about things that you don't know. I was a huge Jason Williams fan, and I live in Chicago and watch all Bulls games. If you are going to ague about Jason Williams and the Bulls with me, you better know your stuff.




> I am stating my opinion, of course its biased because I dislike Duke. But also remember I liked Duhon, Boozer and currently like Shelden Williams a lot, Redick is solid and like McRoberts as well for next year. I hate them, I always will but I know they have solid players, just when comparing schools I will always go on the side of UNC :yes:


:laugh: You did not like Boozer! You were always arguing with me that he would be garbage in the NBA!


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

> Williams stated multiple times that he was going to try to lead through his play before going out there and bossing people around. "take a step back and are not as motivated." examples, please.


Yeah that could be the case, but yeah, for being supposedly a smart person, he did something quite retarted. Your body is how you make a living, and you ride this.









:laugh:

Ah, well "Jay" is a very good announcer I must say, he said he is making a come back, but we will see, if not he can make money being a announcer for sure.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

> You did not like Boozer! You were always arguing with me that he would be garbage in the NBA!


Maybe at the time, I was against all Duke players, but I do remember that I liked him when he came out, honestly I defend Boozer because my brother hates the guy. 



> This is bordering on absurd. First of all, you never even watched the Bulls when Jason played at Chicago, so you have no idea what you are talking about. Jason tried his damndest to be the vocal leader, but he was constantly being muzzled by his coach and the veteran players on his team. He was criticized by his teammates and the press for being too


Ok honestly, give me some credit, I watch Bulls games, its called WGN. The games I saw Jay was not vocal at all, and honestly I thought mentality and competitiveness was a quality he had. But when I saw him, he did not show that, also, I will not even touch the shooting factor. 




> If we were to apply this ridiculous logic elsewhere, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc. would win the national championship every year. Those schools don't give out accademic scholarships, so their players have to be accepted to the school based solely on accademic merit.


Exactly, but those schools are not in the ACC, that is the problem. They do not have great athletic programs and do not have the stage to perform on them. Duke is one of the brainiest schools in the NCAA, only one above them on a national athletics scale is Standford, but really Duke is the top, so yeah they get some very quality kids because of that.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

OZZY said:


> Maybe at the time, I was against all Duke players, but I do remember that I liked him when he came out, honestly I defend Boozer because my brother hates the guy.
> 
> Ok honestly, give me some credit, I watch Bulls games, its called WGN. The games I saw Jay was not vocal at all, and honestly I thought mentality and competitiveness was a quality he had. But when I saw him, he did not show that, also, I will not even touch the shooting factor.


WGN only shows like 5 nationally televised Bulls games a year. I would hardly consider that a solid basis for an informed opinion.




> Exactly, but those schools are not in the ACC, that is the problem. They do not have great athletic programs and do not have the stage to perform on them. Duke is one of the brainiest schools in the NCAA, only one above them on a national athletics scale is Standford, but really Duke is the top, so yeah they get some very quality kids because of that.


Well then why hasn't Stanford won 3 national championships since 1991? Why hasn't Northwestern been a dominant college team? How many great NBA players have those two programs produced?

You are seriously attributing Coach K's success to Duke being a "preppy rich kid" school? Give me a break.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

> Well then why hasn't Stanford won 3 national championships since 1991? Why hasn't Northwestern been a dominant college team? How many great NBA players have those two programs produced?


Well they do recruit off of American Express comercial :laugh:

But Stanford is a ridiculously good athletic school, one of the best in the country if you take account everything, and Northwestern they have there times. But again Duke is the top as far as high profile brainie schools go. 




> You are seriously attributing Coach K's success to Duke being a "preppy rich kid" school? Give me a break.


Know but it sure helps though. He is a solid coach, a great coach but I dislike Duke in general, and their history of producing great professional players is questionable. 



> WGN only shows like 5 nationally televised Bulls games a year. I would hardly consider that a solid basis for an informed opinion.


Actually WGN shows a game every single saturday that I can remember, if they play saturday its on WGN. 


And as far as the "only 5 games" watched, so its not a solid opinion or is informed. Well I guess this profile is not a solid one either, I did that watching him one game, well two but I wrote it after one.
http://www.draftcity.com/viewprofile.php?p=220


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

OZZY said:


> Well they do recruit off of American Express comercial :laugh:
> 
> But Stanford is a ridiculously good athletic school, one of the best in the country if you take account everything, and Northwestern they have there times.


They are both in major conferences and they are every bit as elite--accademically speaking--as Duke.



> But again Duke is the top as far as high profile brainie schools go.


Why is Duke so high profile? Because of Coach K's success.

I hope you realize that Duke was terrible when K took over.



> Know but it sure helps though. He is a solid coach, a great coach but I dislike Duke in general, and their history of producing great professional players is questionable.


How is it questionable? Please list the schools that have a better track record of producing NBA players over the last decade. Better yet, please list the NCAA coaches who have a better record of producing NBA players over the last decade. This argument is simply tired and invalid.



> Actually WGN shows a game every single saturday that I can remember, if they play saturday its on WGN.


WGN only occassionally shows Saturday games on their national network.

I just can't understand your hatred for K. Even though ole Roy has coached my two most hated teams in all of college basketball, I still respect the hell out of him as a coach.

But of course, this is all coming from the guy who couldn't admit that Matt Doherty wasn't a good coach.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

> I just can't understand your hatred for K. Even though ole Roy has coached my two most hated teams in all of college basketball, I still respect the hell out of him as a coach.


I don't hate coach K, I just dislike him because he is for Duke, I had the Duke program more than I hate coach K. Of course he is good, but there is something called a rivarly, you dislike the rival, sure respect them but not to the extent you kiss their ***.




> But of course, this is all coming from the guy who couldn't admit that Matt Doherty wasn't a good coach.


Well 50-70% of coaching is recruiting and he did bring in Felton, McCants and May. I think thats pretty good, just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and I am glad he is gone though cause Roy is obviously better.

But Duke will be very hard to beat next year, I am sure of it, McRoberts is going to kill people and they will easily be ranked top 5 pre season. At least UNC got the title this year, and don't be surprised if Duke is projected as #1 pre season, so maybe we can get some SI jinx going on.










Untill then, Duke can continue to have recruiting violations with the American Express, even look, the colors are the same :laugh:


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

Haters, bad... out!


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

Ozzy,

I'm still waiting for you to list all of the programs and coaches that have produced more NBA talent than Duke and Coach K over the past 10 years...

Sure, Doherty recruited those players, but most of them were going to transfer if he wasn't fired, so I'm not really sure that you can give Doherty credit for bringing in those players. Remember, it was basically a mutiny.

And btw, enough with the American Express ads. It wasn't a recruiting violation, I'm not sure where you are getting that.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

get out of this thread, argue other places

GO HEELS


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

We'll get out as soon as you falsely stop claiming championships (Official UNC Tar Heels National Champions/ Big 10 Champions Celebration Thread)


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

One more thing if the Big Ten is so bad then why would you even wanna call yourself B10 Champs too? That's beyond puzzling!

I'd trade our Big Ten Title for the National Title if you want..


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

edit

Whew, the haters almost took me down to their level. 

GO HEELS 2005 Nat. Champs


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

> I'm still waiting for you to list all of the programs and coaches that have produced more NBA talent than Duke and Coach K over the past 10 years...


You don't have to go far obviously, UNC, Rasheed Wallace, Jerry Stackhouse, Antwan Jamison, Vince Carter. Those four players alone are better than all the Duke players combined. Grant Hill, thats all Duke has in terms of super stars. Of course they are above average, but UNC kills them in NBA talent, there are a lot of famous players in those rafters for a reason.




> And btw, enough with the American Express ads. It wasn't a recruiting violation, I'm not sure where you are getting that.


My law professor said it was a recruiting violation and the AD of Illinois also says it is, sorry but they outweigh whatever opinion you have because they are informed about the situation. How is that ad about American Express? It talks about coach K's philosophy as a coach, explains that his practices are and shows a picture of their stadium, must less past "great" Duke players also doing ads. If you take out the last 5 seconds, you would just think it was a offical recruiting tape. It shows how coach K not only wants to make their players succeed on the court but also succeed in life and on the job. If you don't think that is a recruiting violation, I think you need to watch it again. But wait, you won't be because it will be banned from TV because the NCAA is going to put a stop to it.


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## The Truth (Jul 22, 2002)

OZZY said:


> You don't have to go far obviously, UNC, Rasheed Wallace, Jerry Stackhouse, Antwan Jamison, Vince Carter. Those four players alone are better than all the Duke players combined. Grant Hill, thats all Duke has in terms of super stars. Of course they are above average, but UNC kills them in NBA talent, there are a lot of famous players in those rafters for a reason.


Grant Hill before injury is better than any player UNC produced over the past 10 years.

IMO, Elton Brand = Antawn Jamison
Corey Maggette = Jerry Stackhouse
Rasheed Wallace > Carlos Boozer
Vince Carter > Luol Deng (but I think Deng will be the better all-around player in the future).

And I think they are pretty equal in second tier NBA players

So like I said, its a lot closer than most people think.



> My law professor said it was a recruiting violation and the AD of Illinois also says it is, sorry but they outweigh whatever opinion you have because they are informed about the situation. How is that ad about American Express? It talks about coach K's philosophy as a coach, explains that his practices are and shows a picture of their stadium, must less past "great" Duke players also doing ads. If you take out the last 5 seconds, you would just think it was a offical recruiting tape. It shows how coach K not only wants to make their players succeed on the court but also succeed in life and on the job. If you don't think that is a recruiting violation, I think you need to watch it again. But wait, you won't be because it will be banned from TV because the NCAA is going to put a stop to it.


Well your law professor must not be very well informed on the situation. It is commonly known that Coach K did not break a single NCAA recruiting rule. 

Miles Brand, the President of the NCAA also disagrees with your law professor, as he has said that Coach K's American Express ad did not break any NCAA recruiting rule.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

> Miles Brand, the President of the NCAA also disagrees with your law professor, as he has said that Coach K's American Express ad did not break any NCAA recruiting rule.


Well tell me when you see that commercial again.

"I am a leader who happens to coach basketball," Krzyzewski says in the ad. "When they get out into the workplace, they're armed with not just a jump shot or a dribble. I want you armed for life. I want you to develop as a player. I want you to develop as a student, and I want you to develop as a human being. My life isn't about playing games. That's why my card is American Express."

Take out the last sentence, it sounds exactly like a recruiting trip speak, tell me how its not. Of course they don't recruit just because of this, but it is a violation I believe and quite humorous as well considering the comercial. 

Consistently over time, Duke does not compare at all to UNC. Coach K has created Duke and give him credit for that, its very impressive.


IMO, Elton Brand = Antawn Jamison
Corey Maggette = Jerry Stackhouse
Rasheed Wallace > Carlos Boozer
Vince Carter > Luol Deng 

And I hope you are not comparing Deng and Carter, cause if you are, that is a joke, in the past few months Vince has played like a top 5 player in the NBA. Deng will never in his life be a top 5 player in the NBA, but I agree he is solid. Duke is catching up to UNC because they have been down of late, but next year UNC could produce ideally 6 NBA players in Felton, May, Marvin, McCants, Williams and Manuel. But for UNC's sake, I hope they keep at least 1-2 of those players and get them back next year.




Players in the NBA out of North Carolina all time.

Bradley, Dudley 1979-1988 
Brennan, Pete 1958-1958 
Brown, Larry 1967-1971 
Bucknall, Steve 1989-1989 
Bunting, Bill 1969-1971 
Carter, Vince 1998- 
Chamberlain, Bill 1972-1973 
Chilcutt, Pete 1991-1999 
Crompton, Jeffrey 1978-1983 
Cunningham, Billy 1965-1975 *HOF*
Daugherty, Brad 1986-1993 
Davis, Hubert 1992- 
Davis, Walter 1977-1991 
Dillon, John 1949-1949 
Elston, Darrell 1974-1976 
English, Scott 1972-1974 
Ford, Phil 1978-1984 
Forte, Joseph 2001-2002 
Fox, Rick 1991- 
Glamack, George 1948-1948 
Grubar, Dick 1969-1969 
Haywood, Brendan 2001- 
Jamison, Antawn 1998- 
Jones, Bobby 1974-1985 
Jordan, Michael 1984-2002 *HOF* not yet, but obviously
Karl, George 1973-1977 
Kearns, Tommy 1958-1958 
Kuester, John 1977-1979 
Lagarde, Tom 1977-1984 
Larese, York 1961-1961 
Lebo, Jeff 1989-1989 
Lewis, Bobby 1967-1970 
Lynch, George 1993- 
Mcadoo, Bob 1972-1985 *HOF*
Mcinnis, Jeff 1996- 
Mckinney, Horace 1946-1951 
Miller, Bill 1948-1948 
Miller, Harry 1946-1946 
Miller, Larry 1968-1974 
Moe, Doug 1967-1971 
Montross, Eric 1994-2001 
Nagy, Fred 1948-1948 
Ndiaye, Makhtar 1998-1998 
O'koren, Mike 1980-1987 
Perkins, Sam 1984-2000 
Phelps, Derrick 1994-1994 
Popson, Dave 1988-1991 
Previs, Steve 1972-1972 
Reid, J.r. 1989-2000 
Rosenbluth, Lennie 1957-1958 
Rozier, Clifford 1994-1997 
Salvadori, Kevin 1996-1997 
Scott, Charlie 1970-1979 
Shaffer, Lee 1961-1963 
Smith, Kenny 1987-1996 
Stackhouse, Jerry 1995- 
Wallace, Rasheed 1995- 
Washington, Don 1974-1975 
Wenstrom, Matt 1993-1993 
Williams, Scott 1990- 
Williams, Shammond 1998- 
Wolf, Joe 1987-1998 
Wood, Al 1981-1986 
Worthy, James 1982-1993 *HOF*
Wuycik, Dennis 1972-1974 
Yonakor, Rich 1981-1981 


Players in the NBA out of Duke all time.

Abdelnaby, Alaa 1990-1994 
Alarie, Mark 1986-1990 
Armstrong, Tate 1977-1978 
Avery, William 1999-2001 
Banks, Gene 1981-1986 
Battier, Shane 2001- 
Boozer, Carlos 2002- 
Brand, Elton 1999- 
Crow, Mark 1977-1977 
Davis, Brian 1993-1993 
Dawkins, Johnny 1986-1994 
Dennard, Kenny 1981-1983 
Denton, Randy 1971-1976 
Dunleavy, Mike 2002- 
Ferry, Danny 1990-2002 
Gantt, Bob 1946-1946 
Gminski, Mike 1980-1993 
Groat, Dick 1952-1952 
Henderson, Dave 1987-1987 
Heyman, Art 1963-1969 
Hill, Grant 1994-2002 
Hurley, Bobby 1993-1997 
Jones, Dahntay 2003- 
Kennedy, Joe 1968-1970 
Kistler, Doug 1961-1961 
Laettner, Christian 1992- 
Lang, Antonio 1994-1999 
Langdon, Trajan 1999-2001 
Lewis, Mike 1968-1973 
Maggette, Corey 1999- 
Marin, Jack 1966-1976 
Mcleod, Roshown 1998-2000 
Melchionni, Gary 1973-1974 
Mullins, Jeff 1964-1975 
Nessley, Martin 1987-1987 
Parks, Cherokee 1995- 
Riedy, Bob 1967-1967 
Spanarkel, Jim 1979-1983 
Taylor, Vince 1982-1982 
Vacendak, Steve 1967-1969 
Verga, Bob 1967-1973 
Williams, Jay 2002-2002



Its good to have Duke around though, it makes the Duke UNC game even more special, and now that UNC actually are doing well the rivarly is back. And again, I am not completely anti Duke, I am a huge fan of Duhon, S. Williams, McRoberts, Paulus and I hate Redick but I respect him.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

Just saw Pocius play, and yeah Duke got another good one, he is a good athlete, nice leaper and is a uptempo style SG that likes to shoot and attack the basket. 

I predict Duke will be preseason #1 next year, they are just stacked, and that is without Shelden coming back, with him, no question #1. 

PG Paulus (Dockery) (Nelson)
SG Redick (Pocius) 
SF McRoberts (Melchionni) (McClure)
PF Randolph (Boykin)
C Boateng



However, Handsbrough played amazing basketball at the Hoop Summit, played a lot better than he did in the McDonalds game, so maybe UNC might be getting another dominant low post force. So UNC will not be to bad off, and getting a second look at Green, he is better than I originally thought as well.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

UConn will be preseason #1 if Williams is gone. Whether it is desered or not, or who is better or not, is irrelevant. UConn will be ranked ahead of Duke next year. It is a virtual certainty.


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## OZZY (Jun 14, 2002)

> UConn will be preseason #1 if Williams is gone. Whether it is desered or not, or who is better or not, is irrelevant. UConn will be ranked ahead of Duke next year. It is a virtual certainty.


Maybe, but its just because Duke has players that are not as known like Pocius and Boateng who could be very good players. They have a far superior recruiting class compared to UCONN and since Villanueva is gone, I would take them over UCONN. Honestly William's UCONN's PG, I would never take him over Paulus, and he Williams is moderately overrated I think also. UCONN will only be great next year if Bynum is a man in the post, Boone played like he did two years ago in the tournament and Gay dominates.


And yeah, its coming from a UNC fan, and it pains me to say it, but Duke will rock next year.


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## TM (Jun 30, 2003)

I don't know - Williams had a few games down the stretch that were pretty impressive. Actually, despite the loss, I was impressed with his game against UNC. As for Duke starting out No. 2. That's fine. Hopefully it'll be a repeat of '98-'99 with the preseason No. 2 (wasn't UConn #2 preseason?) coming out on top in the title game.


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