# Gary Payton



## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

I was looking at his career numbers earlier and their pretty damn impressive.

One season stood out, and I think it's maybe the best statistical season any guard has had in the modern day NBA. 


99-00-

24ppg
9 apg
6.5 rpg
2 spg
2.7 TO's
45% fg%
34% 3-pt
82 games

My GOD those numbers are insane. Can anybody really think of a more impressive statistical season in the last 5-6 years?


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shanghai Kid</b>!
> I think it's maybe the best statistical season any guard has had in the modern day NBA.


what do you consider the modern day nba?


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I think were going to see about

20-7-5 this year from him. He still has some left in the tank.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

I have never seen such a drastic fall in play in one season, as I saw with GP last season... The guy went from top tier defender, all-star, superstar, carrying a team, to a negative on the floor... The dropoff was absolutely ridiculous... And since EVERYONE is a "What have you done for me lately", the guy has been labeled a loser, cancer, and people have forgotten how good this guy really was... I expect him to play better, not great, but better with the Celtics. Back to the point, GP was absolutely awesome in his old days... One of the best PG's of all time imo...


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

*Re: Re: Gary Payton*



> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> 
> 
> what do you consider the modern day nba?


I'm just talking about the last 5-6 years, with the group of guys like VC, T-Mac, Kobe, todays generation basically.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Great Twinkee</b>!
> I think were going to see about
> 
> 20-7-5 this year from him. He still has some left in the tank.


I think 20-7-5 this year is pretty optimistic.


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## rock747 (Aug 3, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> I think 20-7-5 this year is pretty optimistic.


yeah more like 14-6-5 , I just can't see 20.


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## adomis82 (Aug 30, 2004)

As long as Payton can play with some movitation (which is a big if, figuring he wanted to go to the Lakers for one last shot at a championship......now he's on the Celtics.......he might as well should have stayed with the Sonics) I believe that a great PG like him willl fit great getting the ball to Paul Pierce. As long as he's movitaed


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

*Finished*.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Gary Payton*



> Originally posted by <b>Shanghai Kid</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm just talking about the last 5-6 years, with the group of guys like VC, T-Mac, Kobe, todays generation basically.


I think both Kobe and T-Mac had more impressive statlines in 2002-2003 than Payton's 99-00 year.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>S-Star</b>!
> I have never seen such a drastic fall in play in one season, as I saw with GP last season... The guy went from top tier defender, all-star, superstar, carrying a team, to a negative on the floor... The dropoff was absolutely ridiculous... And since EVERYONE is a "What have you done for me lately", the guy has been labeled a loser, cancer, and people have forgotten how good this guy really was... I expect him to play better, not great, but better with the Celtics. Back to the point, GP was absolutely awesome in his old days... One of the best PG's of all time imo...


How do you figure he was a negative on the floor? His +/- was higher than Kobe, Malone and everyone else on the Lakers except Shaq. 

http://82games.com/0304LAL.HTM


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## Snuffleupagus (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Shanghai Kid</b>!
> 99-00-
> 
> 24ppg
> ...


These numbers are better, IMO:

Kevin Garnett
03-04-

24ppg
5 apg
14 rpg
1.5 spg
2 bpg
2.6 TO's
50% fg%
26% 3-pt
82 games

I think this is the most well-rounded season anyone's had in the past decade. But of guards, that season by Payton is awfully sick.


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

*Re: Re: Gary Payton*



> Originally posted by <b>Snuffleupagus</b>!
> 
> 
> These numbers are better, IMO:
> ...


Yeah that's true. I think for guards, Payton's numbers are up there with T-Macs and Kobe's because of the assists, fg% and rebounds for his size are all just crazy.

I think Chris Webbers had some monster statistical seasons also.


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## Scuall (Jul 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Great Twinkee</b>!
> I think were going to see about
> 
> 20-7-5 this year from him. He still has some left in the tank.


I don't know how many games you saw from him last year, but I saw about 80-85% of them. The guys done. He can barely play defense anymore, and the only offense left in him in the post up down low on smaller guards. If the Celtics rely on giving him the ball in the paint..... it's gonna be a long season.


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Scuall</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't know how many games you saw from him last year, but I saw about 80-85% of them. The guys done. He can barely play defense anymore, and the only offense left in him in the post up down low on smaller guards. If the Celtics rely on giving him the ball in the paint..... it's gonna be a long season.


Yeah he's also playing next to Paul Pierce and Ricky Davis, I doubt he'll ever put up All-Star numbers again. Also, posting up PGs isn't going to be as easy as it used too. I mean hows he going to post up all the new big guards like Wade/Francis/Arenas/Hinrich. Those guys are all to quick for him now also.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Gary Payton*



> Originally posted by <b>Shanghai Kid</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah that's true. I think for guards, Payton's numbers are up there with T-Macs and Kobe's because of the assists, fg% and rebounds for his size are all just crazy.


Assists are because he's a point guard. Kobe and T-Mac both put up extremely high assist numbers for a shooting guard. I said 2002-2003 seasons for Kobe and T-Mac, Kobe shot 45.1% and T-Mac shot 45.7%, so you have no point whatsoever with FG%. I'm still baffled by how Payton put up 6.5 rpg that year, that's easily the most in his career. It was a fluke, plain and simple. Still, a great year by Payton though, I still think T-Mac and Kobe had better years in 2002-2003.


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Gary Payton*



> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Assists are because he's a point guard. Kobe and T-Mac both put up extremely high assist numbers for a shooting guard. I said 2002-2003 seasons for Kobe and T-Mac, Kobe shot 45.1% and T-Mac shot 45.7%, so you have no point whatsoever with FG%. I'm still baffled by how Payton put up 6.5 rpg that year, that's easily the most in his career. It was a fluke, plain and simple. Still, a great year by Payton though, I still think T-Mac and Kobe had better years in 2002-2003.


Yeah T-Mac and Kobe probably did have better years. For point guards though it's definetly the best in the last few years.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Gary Payton*



> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> Assists are because he's a point guard. Kobe and T-Mac both put up extremely high assist numbers for a shooting guard. I said 2002-2003 seasons for Kobe and T-Mac, Kobe shot 45.1% and T-Mac shot 45.7%, so you have no point whatsoever with FG%. I'm still baffled by how Payton put up 6.5 rpg that year, that's easily the most in his career. It was a fluke, plain and simple. Still, a great year by Payton though, I still think T-Mac and Kobe had better years in 2002-2003.


i don't think 82 games was a fluke (the rebounding). i think he stepped it up for a weak rebounding team that year (-2.1). part was circumstance in that his team was poor on the boards. but part was him taking on the challenge. that they finished 45-37 that year really is a testament to him.


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## Ps!ence_Fiction (Aug 1, 2004)

how can everyone say he is finished, the only reason why your all saying that is cus he played so terrible last year, and that was because he was on the lakers. There were problems from the start, he didn't fit in with the triangle offense, and overall it just didn't work. Don't u all remember that only 2 seasons ago, he averaged 20 ppg/4 rpg/8 apg/1.5 spg, he only had one down season, and it wasn't because he fell off, everyone is saying this about Iverson too, how he is injury prone now because of one season, saying that he is slowing down and his age is catching up with him and is no longer half as good as he was a few years ago, he may not be at MVP level, but he can still average 28 ppg or maybe even 30 (but i doubt it with all the other scorers on his team and his shift to point guard), neither of these two have fallen off, they just had bad seasons, look for both of them to return back to normal this season


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## Scinos (Jun 10, 2003)

Yeah, GP had amazing numbers. He didn't even have much of a supporting cast that year. All that team had was GP, a declining Vin Baker, Brent Barry and scrubs. He still carried them to 45 wins and the playoffs. 

:worship:


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Yeah, Payton was really dominant that year. For a one guard that has to rate as one of the greatest seasons on record.


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## runbmg (May 25, 2002)

Payton will bounce back in a BIG way this season. I think he will be an all-star for the Celts. 

19.8 ppg
9.5 apg
4.3 rpg
1.1 steals


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ps!ence_Fiction</b>!
> how can everyone say he is finished, the only reason why your all saying that is cus he played so terrible last year, and that was because he was on the lakers. There were problems from the start, he didn't fit in with the triangle offense, and overall it just didn't work. Don't u all remember that only 2 seasons ago, he averaged 20 ppg/4 rpg/8 apg/1.5 spg, he only had one down season, and it wasn't because he fell off, everyone is saying this about Iverson too, how he is injury prone now because of one season, saying that he is slowing down and his age is catching up with him and is no longer half as good as he was a few years ago, he may not be at MVP level, but he can still average 28 ppg or maybe even 30 (but i doubt it with all the other scorers on his team and his shift to point guard), neither of these two have fallen off, they just had bad seasons, look for both of them to return back to normal this season


Paytons like 35-36 now. Their's no way he's getting back to his 20/8 days. He's flatout not as quick as he was two years ago.


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## Dirty Dirk41 (Nov 5, 2003)

i realli see the celtics doin good this season....i think there way better than they were last year an ow there better...they tried doin bad to make the lottery an still got into the playoffs....Payton will have a good year.....I Say something like 18 ppg an like 7-8 apg.....Wit pierce an good role players like googs, jiri, ricky,an raef...i see this team shuttin alot of mouths an makin alot of people look stupid for sayin they aint making the playoffs.


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## qwerty (Oct 26, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>runbmg</b>!
> Payton will bounce back in a BIG way this season. I think he will be an all-star for the Celts.
> 
> 19.8 ppg
> ...


I think you are being a little too generous with the assists, but other than that, it seems pretty possible.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see him get 20-4-7 this year. And on a high FG%.


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## runbmg (May 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>~~~</b>!
> 
> 
> I think you are being a little too generous with the assists, but other than that, it seems pretty possible.


I can hear the Boston sportscasters already...

Payton posts up into the paint, lobs it to Pierce...Nothing but net!


All season long!


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see him get 20-4-7 this year. And on a high FG%.


It's very hard for him to do so.. EHL, grab some papers, I am teching you things again..

Gary Payton required the "whole court", "whole short clock", "Whole set plays" to get his 20 points a game. He is not going to get the freedom using the "whole court" to get his shots off.

You know Pierce is going to be limited in the lowpost area. Payton would be a post feeder, hitting open 3s or slashing to the hole after teams deceide to get the ball out of Pierce. I say Payton was never a great finisher in drives adn slashes. So you would have to relie on him shooting the 3s. I think Payton will play better than last yera because he will be more involved in touching the ball, because Pierce doesnt have the ball handling skills that Kobe has, he will at least get a better feel in shooting because he will be more involved touching the ball. Or you can post Payton up on weakside with Pierce on the strong side. But he will be a second option, and Cs will not give serious effort to repost Payton after he was double teamed (some weak ones, just to get the ball out of his hand).

Neither way will not be enough time for Payton to dominate the ball which will be enough for 20 point scorer. And dont estimate the thing that a player has the freedom when he can take a shot, his FG% will go up higher, but only he has the freedom, which he will not have!


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> It's very hard for him to do so.. EHL, grab some papers, I am teching you things again..
> 
> Gary Payton required the "whole court", "whole short clock", "Whole set plays" to get his 20 points a game. He is not going to get the freedom using the "whole court" to get his shots off.
> ...


I agree, both guys need to dominate the ball. I always thought Payton in his prime was overrated, but now I think he is good as done. Especially with not only Pierce and Payton, but Ricky Davis as well. All three guys are players who demand a lot of shots or they start pouting. Pierce is the only guy on that team who deserves a lot of shots, since he can and has consistently put them in the playoffs, almost single handedly.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> How do you figure he was a negative on the floor? His +/- was higher than Kobe, Malone and everyone else on the Lakers except Shaq.
> ...


Those 82 games don't mention the playoffs do they...


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## runbmg (May 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Johnny Mac</b>!
> 
> 
> I always thought Payton in his prime was overrated.


 Overrated is a guy who's first name rhymes with Jerk. he plays for the Bulls. 

Payton is UNDERRATED.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>runbmg</b>!
> Payton will bounce back in a BIG way this season. I think he will be an all-star for the Celts.
> 
> 19.8 ppg
> ...


Come on man. Forget about his horrible playoff run, the man hasn't been good since he left the Sonics. He was mediocre for the Bucks, mediocre for the Lakers in the regular season, and horrid in the players. He's finished. Let it go.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>runbmg</b>!
> Overrated is a guy who's first name rhymes with Jerk. he plays for the Bulls.
> 
> Payton is UNDERRATED.


Cool, thats your opinion. Of course, its not hard to tell that you just got your feelings hurt about me saying your favorite player was overrated, and felt you had to come back at me and do the same.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>S-Star</b>!
> 
> 
> Those 82 games don't mention the playoffs do they...


No, Payton played horridly in the playoffs, and his +/- in the playoffs reflected that. His was -4.6 whereas Shaq's was an incredible +28.4 team net +/-.


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## runbmg (May 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> Come on man. Forget about his horrible playoff run, the man hasn't been good since he left the Sonics. He was mediocre for the Bucks, mediocre for the Lakers in the regular season, and horrid in the players. He's finished. Let it go.


For the record, Payton was fine in Milwaukee, he said the whole time that it was Cassell's team. That's way his Milwaukee numbers were silighty lower than normal. 

As far as The L.A. experiment goes, yes, it's no secret that GP SUCKED. 

But to say he's finished is a joke. 

Any opinion you post will change a week later. If Payton has a good season you'll say you're BBB.net's biggest Glove fan.

My prediction is that you'll jump on the GP bandwagon in January and demand to drive the damn thing.


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## runbmg (May 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Johnny Mac</b>!
> 
> 
> Cool, thats your opinion. Of course, its not hard to tell that you just got your feelings hurt about me saying your favorite player was overrated, and felt you had to come back at me and do the same.


Who said Payton was my favorite player?


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>runbmg</b>!
> Who said Payton was my favorite player?


Its not hard to hell. Sonics avatar, defending the greatest player in Sonics history, and overrating him going into next season. Whether or not he was overrated in his prime is very debatable, I think he was, but thats just my opinion. Whats not debatable is Gary Payton averaging 20 points, 10 assists and 4 rebounds next season.


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## runbmg (May 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Johnny Mac</b>!
> 
> 
> Its not hard to hell. Sonics avatar, defending the greatest player in Sonics history, and overrating him going into next season. Whether or not he was overrated in his prime is very debatable, I think he was, but thats just my opinion. Whats not debatable is Gary Payton averaging 20 points, 10 assists and 4 rebounds next season.


The greatest player in Sonics history was Patrick Ewing. (Sure he only played a season, but it counts.)

also I never said GP would average 20/10/4 
I said he would average:
19.8 ppg
9.5 apg
4.3 rpg
1.1 steals 


You gotta remember it's the Boston Celtics. Anyone could get those numbers in Beantown his year. Well, except maybe Kirk.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>runbmg</b>!
> The greatest player in Sonics history was Patrick Ewing. (Sure he only played a season, but it counts.)
> 
> also I never said GP would average 20/10/4
> ...


OHH! Sorry, 19.8 and 20 points is much different, 10 assists and 9.5 is much different, and 4.3 is mcuh different from 4. What a huge misunderstanding.


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## runbmg (May 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Johnny Mac</b>!
> 
> 
> OHH! Sorry, 19.8 and 20 points is much different, 10 assists and 9.5 is much different, and 4.3 is mcuh different from 4. What a huge misunderstanding.


Exactly, 

You're giving him too much credit for points and assits, and not enough for rebounds. 

:rbanana: :banana: :vbanana: :bbanana: :gbanana: :wbanana: :cbanana: :dpepper:


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>runbmg</b>!
> :rbanana: :banana: :vbanana: :bbanana: :gbanana: :wbanana: :cbanana: :dpepper:


The first banana is so off. He needs to learn the concept of team and stop trying to be a star.


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## runbmg (May 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Johnny Mac</b>!
> 
> 
> The first banana is so off. He needs to learn the concept of team and stop trying to be a star.


:twave: How's this?


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