# Kaman over bosh?



## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

i know that a lot of you guys hate on this guy (for little reason) but i think he could be our pick here. 

did you seen the vids of him during the lotto? they looked pretty damn impressive to me (much moreso than darko's in terms of athleticism displayed). expect kaman to step in the workouts already having added bulk since the tourney; by the end of the summer i expect he'll have put on 25-30 pounds of muscle. this guy might not be a star but he will be ready to make an impact next season, he has tons of potential, and he's exactly what we need. don't be so quick to write him off- everyone loves magloire and i can see kaman developing into a better player much more quickly. 

bosh is nice and he has more upside but i don't see him producing too much next season. i could be wrong but i don't think he'll get many minutes behind a healthy (knock) JYD and a much improved bradley. i'd be happy with bosh but he's a player for the future much more than the coming season.


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

If his workouts have been strong with the Raps and hes been putting on a lot more weight and developing more physically than Bosh, I wouldnt mind picking up on Kaman...

But thats only if hes been showing lots of improvement physically...With a 4th pick overall, we should still be looking for a great franchise/ all star player and with Kaman, I guess a lot of people just dont see that potential franchise/ all star calibre player in him...Hes solid now, arguably the best NBA ready player in the draft...


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## Jehuisthere (Jan 12, 2003)

and with Kaman, I can't see the Raptors ever going all the way, we're hopefully not going to be in this position again anytime soon, I think we got to go with Bosh and hope he becomes what he's supposed to turn into.....


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## GuelphRaptorsFan (Apr 9, 2003)

I think Bosh is athletic, and may turn into something someday, but he's a project. I don't think the Raptors should be drafting a project. Kaman appears to be NBA-ready, or at least as close to it as a center can be. I'm very leery of Ford's shooting ability, but I could live with him or Kaman. I'd prefer Kaman, because, in the absence of workout information and so forth, he appears to be the best big man in the draft right now and for the next couple of years, and we need a big man.


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## MilnTor (May 22, 2003)

Kaman would maybe be better in the first year, but down the road if and when bosh bulks up a little he will be a much better player.

Kaman 1st year - 28mpg, 10 ppg, 7 rpb, 1 apg, 1.5 bpg .5 stp
2nd year- 28 mpg, 10 ppg, 7 rbp, 1.5 apg, 1.8 bpg, .5 

Bosh 1st year - 25mpg, 8 ppg, 7 rbg, 2 apg, 1.5 bpg, .7 spg
2nd year - 32 mpg, 14 ppg, 10 rbg, 3 apg, 2 bpg, 1 spg

Just IMO, who knows what will really happen a lot depends on how much the team that drafts them wants to use them.


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## macro6 (Jul 23, 2002)

potential vs proven talent


bosh can become a antonio mcdyce (sp?) type of player (or he can become a jerome moiso type *GULP!*)

or you take a proven player in kaman. what you see is what you get. i dont think he will get any better than he is now.


i othink we should take the gamble and draft bosh.


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## GuelphRaptorsFan (Apr 9, 2003)

I think Kaman suffers from reverse discrimination. If you had a black 7'0", 255 lb center with superb footwork in the post, ran the court well, had above average altheticism, had a solid hook shot and turnaround jumper and free throw, and was, if anything, too aggressive, I don't think there would be any question he'd be drafted at the #4 spot. Because when you think 7' tall black center, you think Shaq, but when you think 7' tall white center, you think Chris Mihm, Shawn Bradley, Rik Smits.


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## Vince Carter (Jan 9, 2003)

But you have to remember that when Kaman played against other teams, the center of the other teams where 3" smaller then Kaman, so that's why he had a big advantage, and why's so high. Also that will not be the same thing in the nba. that's why you select Bosh instead.


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## GuelphRaptorsFan (Apr 9, 2003)

> But you have to remember that when Kaman played against other teams, the center of the other teams where 3" smaller then Kaman, so that's why he had a big advantage, and why's so high. Also that will not be the same thing in the nba. that's why you select Bosh instead.


I can't argue with that statement, but I think it applies not just to Kaman, but also to Bosh and basically any other college or high school player. The question is whether the prospect can only score based on their size advantage. I don't know whether that is true of Kaman or not for certain, but from the reports, he appears to have solid fundamentals and thats why he scores.

Interestingly enough, there's a top 3 prospect who "excels using his strength more than quickness and this will hinder his superstar potential." And thats Carmelo Anthony.


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## Vince Carter (Jan 9, 2003)

Bosh in is freshman year Played against players is own size if you find little clips of him playing ball in college(I know it’s gonna be hard to find) you’ll see that everyone almost matches up to his size. In other hands if you find Kaman clips then you’ll see he’s taller then a lot of is counter parts, that’s why I say select Bosh instead. Also I am afraid that Kaman will get injured, or he will become like Montross, remember Montross was selected high in is draft year, and look at him now.


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## sammysamosa (Mar 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Vince Carter</b>!
> Bosh in is freshman year Played against players is own size if you find little clips of him playing ball in college(I know it’s gonna be hard to find) you’ll see that everyone almost matches up to his size. In other hands if you find Kaman clips then you’ll see he’s taller then a lot of is counter parts, that’s why I say select Bosh instead. Also I am afraid that Kaman will get injured, or he will become like Montross, remember Montross was selected high in is draft year, and look at him now.


good point


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## GuelphRaptorsFan (Apr 9, 2003)

> Also I am afraid that Kaman will get injured, or he will become like Montross, remember Montross was selected high in is draft year, and look at him now.


And why are you afraid of that? What leads you to think that Kaman will be more injury-prone than anybody else? Because Montross is a big white guy and Kaman is also a big white guy?


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

if the raps were to take kaman over bosh, i'd really consider GG's gm status. with bosh, you get a possible future franchise player alongside VC. and draft are meant to be for the future of the future. 

besides, if he really wants to make an impact, GG should do an AW for RD swap that has been contemplated for many months now.


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## broham (May 23, 2003)

*Franchise player in the fourth*



> Originally posted by <b>NeoSamurai</b>!
> With a 4th pick overall, we should still be looking for a great franchise/ all star player and with Kaman, I guess a lot of people just dont see that potential franchise/ all star calibre player in him...Hes solid now, arguably the best NBA ready player in the draft...


Previous fourth picks -
-Drew Gooden
-Eddy Curry
-Marcus Fizer
-Lamar Odom
-Antawn Jamison
-Antonio Daniels
-Stephon Marbury
-Rasheed Wallace
-Donyell Marshall

Lots of potential, - one allstar selection i think (stephon this year)don't really know if there's a franchise player among them.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GuelphRaptorsFan</b>!
> 
> 
> And why are you afraid of that? What leads you to think that Kaman will be more injury-prone than anybody else? Because Montross is a big white guy and Kaman is also a big white guy?


Enough with this stupid talk. He's not bringing up Montross because he's white. Take a comparison for what it's worth. The thing is, all these big white guys, who you say are unjustly discriminated against, have great fundamentals. But how many are truly effective in the NBA? And I'm only talking about Americans. Eric Montross is just a classic case of this. It has nothing to do with race. Olden Polynice is another example. He's black, so what's your point?

By the way, Rik Smits was a great player in the NBA.


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## GuelphRaptorsFan (Apr 9, 2003)

> quote:
> "And why are you afraid of that? What leads you to think that Kaman will be more injury-prone than anybody else? Because Montross is a big white guy and Kaman is also a big white guy?"
> 
> Enough with this stupid talk. He's not bringing up Montross because he's white. Take a comparison for what it's worth. The thing is, all these big white guys, who you say are unjustly discriminated against, have great fundamentals. But how many are truly effective in the NBA? And I'm only talking about Americans. Eric Montross is just a classic case of this. It has nothing to do with race. Olden Polynice is another example. He's black, so what's your point?
> ...


OK, then somebody explain to me why Kaman is any more likely to be injury prone than anybody else. And I agree that there are comparisons between Kaman and Montross, but to make a leap that because Montross got injured so will Kaman is absurd.

And I'll agree with your point that there have been centers with good fundamentals, both black and white, that reached only medicore levels of success in the NBA. However, the claim is that Kaman has an added level of athleticism that some of those other guys didn't. As soon as Kaman's name started coming up, everybody immediately classified him, and dismissed him, as another Chris Mihm. Mihm is probably underrated, and he is a big white guy who is a center, but he and Kaman have very different games.

And I'll agree again, Rik Smits was a great player. But he falls into that white center stereotype, soft and physically unimposing considering his size.

I'm more than willing to admit, and definitely hope, that I'm just wrong, and people aren't immediately classifying prospects based on race. But there seems a common thread of people who at least on the surface appear to immediately classify all white centers as soft and injury-prone.


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## Jehuisthere (Jan 12, 2003)

another factor is bosh is younger than kaman meaning he has more time to develop. if bosh had waited til next yr to declare, he prob would have been #1 or #2, obviously there is always the chance he wont pan out, but we got to take that chance.....


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

Kaman over Bosh........helllllllllllll no


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Vinsanity</b>!
> Kaman over Bosh........helllllllllllll no


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

*Re: Franchise player in the fourth*



> Originally posted by <b>broham</b>!
> 
> 
> Previous fourth picks -
> ...


Alright, how about Vince who was essentially chosen 4th overall by the Raps even tho he was taken 5th in 1998....What about Ray Allen, taken 5th in '96 ...What about Dirk Nowitzky who was taken at the 9th spot in 1998...TMac went 9th overall as well in '97...and so on...

A future-franchise player can be found deeper into the draft than the 4 spot...In Kaman, many feel that he wont be a guy that will put up 25-10 every night or be that big franchise player which Bosh can potentially become...Kaman will be the better of the two in the first couple of years, but Bosh may become an unstopable force someday...


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## Raptor15 (Jan 26, 2003)

Can Bosh run the floor well?

Just thinking of a similar combo we could have to the Nets.

AW/Rafer, VC and Bosh?


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

You can't pass on Bosh's potential


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

I agree. We totally have to take Bosh. Like I've said, he's not a project. Nikoloz Skitishvili was a PROJECT. Chris Bosh is a PROSPECT, which is completely different. He's averaged 15 and 9 in college as a freshman, shooting 56% from the field, 47% from threes, and 73% from the line - not bad for a big man. The guy definitely needs to bulk up, but that can be achieved!


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>hellbot</b>!
> You can't pass on Bosh's potential


If Raptor fans want a better chance to win they pick Kaman. If not Bosh. People take those KG/McDyess/Duncan comparisons to seriously. I have watched Bosh since HS...right now he is an Eddie Griffin and a player with no position. In 2-3 years he might be KG/McDyess/Duncan or he might not. Nevertheless Bosh will not contribute until mid 2nd year. Kaman is not as bad as people think...Skywalker can vouch for how high I think Bosh is...anyone that has read my posts in the draft board for the last year could. I was one of the few to talk about Bosh before he became a popular topic. The Raptors have several solid choices in Bosh, Kaman, or Lampe...even Sofo. Kaman is the less risk out of the 4 but Bosh has more potential. The difference is that Kaman would be ready to contribute out of the gate and Bosh in 2-3 years. By then he might leave since Toronto is not an attractive place for many players to play regardless what Torontonians believe. We have to fork up huge sums of $$$ just to get a midlevel player to play here.


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

Bosh's potential is too risky to pass up....and we gotta worry about that signing sh!t later on, we havent even drafted the guy


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## macro6 (Jul 23, 2002)

knowing glen grunwald, he might trade our pick for chris dudley, and 3 second round picks


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Vinsanity</b>!
> Bosh's potential is too risky to pass up....and we gotta worry about that signing sh!t later on, we havent even drafted the guy


Key words being risky...he is risky to pass up...yes...but he is also risky to pick....I have said that Bosh should have stayed in school but huge sums of $$$ can change a person's perception. He is not even close to physically being able to play yet contribute in the NBA. He is a player with no position right now. At 210 he is weaker than some SGs. I am basically outling the fact that people should not be taking some of those comparisons too seriously...heck I was the FIRST before nbadraft.net to compare Bosh to players like KG, Duncan and McDyess. The time I compared him to those players...people were saying that he was a Joe Smith clone. Right now Bosh is an Eddie Griffin...in 2-3 years is when I could see him developing into McDyess or KG. And management always has to consider the whole signing assessment. Why gamble on a player that might eventually leave when he starts to become good. I know people would hate to have TMac situation arise again. This implies to any player that Toronto will draft.


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>macro6</b>!
> knowing glen grunwald, he might trade our pick for chris dudley, and 3 second round picks


just for sayin that....you DONT know grunwald


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bball_Doctor</b>!
> And management always has to consider the whole signing assessment. Why gamble on a player that might eventually leave when he starts to become good. I know people would hate to have TMac situation arise again.


but do u know the guy personally?.....how do you know he might not sign, how do you know the t-*** situation will arise again....he could be like carter or alston and love playing here


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Bball_Doctor</b>!
> in 2-3 years is when I could see him developing into McDyess or KG.


heres the reason why we should not pass him up.....we all know he aint like stoudemire and contribute right away, he's for the future not now


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Vinsanity</b>!
> 
> 
> but do u know the guy personally?.....how do you know he might not sign, how do you know the t-*** situation will arise again....he could be like carter or alston and love playing here


Rafer loves playing here becuz no other team would take him. GS released him. Do u know how bad of a player he was before this year? I never said Bosh would not sign here but management has to keep that in mind. Saying that they shouldn't is very weary for the Raptor's future. There are backdoor conversations we don't hear about. If Bosh turns into a KG like player I doubt we have the cash to keep him here...that is the truth especially with renegiotians of the CBA coming soon. Your anger about TMac is exactly what I am warning about. Like TMac Bosh is not ready to contribute until mid 2nd or 3 year. If he does decide to leave we will lose. Picking a player who can contribute before that would give us at least a minimum of 4 quality years if the whole "leaving" situation arises.


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

how would u know Kaman (if he becomes big) would re-sign.....so its the same thing with both players.....any player has the chance to not re-sign....but Bosh has more potential...so i would take Bosh over Kaman


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Only if we got top 3


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

i don't really even mind so much anymore. go ahead, toronto, take kaman. maybe he'll be effective in some capacity. actually, i'm sure he will.

and regardless, it doesn't matter who they draft, they're getting an asset. they could even trade the pick for something and they'll be getting an asset in return- to varying degrees. our team will only improve with respect to last year's performance.

even luc longley would help them. plus, i could be wrong about kaman. maybe he can start a few games, block some shots and provide some minutes.

either way, he (or anyone) will help for the cost of nothing. 

so the raps are getting better. maybe that's all that matters.

peace


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## Jehuisthere (Jan 12, 2003)

Rookies are stuck for at least 4 yrs, and regardless of how good he gets, there will always be the larry bird exception so no matter how our cap situation is, we'll be able to resign him for the max......


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

Maybe we can end all arguments as GG has made it clear that Toronto WILL pick Chris Bosh with the 4th.

"Following the lottery, Toronto General Manager Glen Grunwald indicated his team was positioned to select Georgia Tech freshman forward Chris Bosh after the 1-2-3 run, in some order, of James-Milicic-Anthony."


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## sammysamosa (Mar 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bball_Doctor</b>!
> Maybe we can end all arguments as GG has made it clear that Toronto WILL pick Chris Bosh with the 4th.
> 
> "Following the lottery, Toronto General Manager Glen Grunwald indicated his team was positioned to select Georgia Tech freshman forward Chris Bosh after the 1-2-3 run, in some order, of James-Milicic-Anthony."


in that same article GG says he thinks his team is in good possition to trade the pick down...wut do u think about a trade with the clippers mopete + 4th for odom or miller + 6th? Odom and miller haven't been really good for the clippers and toronto would still get one of TJ, Kaman, Wade, Bosh


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sammysamosa</b>!
> 
> 
> in that same article GG says he thinks his team is in good possition to trade the pick down...wut do u think about a trade with the clippers mopete + 4th for odom or miller + 6th? Odom and miller haven't been really good for the clippers and toronto would still get one of TJ, Kaman, Wade, Bosh


I think as a Raps guy that would be AMAZING....but unlikely due to contracts. Miller will demand $$$ and only a trade and sign would get Miller here. He is a FA. Odom are Clipper fans best player...they would HATE this. They don't care about Miller becuz he is good as gone but departing with Odom with at least one more year (can someone verify this?) in his contract might not be a huge probability. We have better chances if it was his last year and if Sterling looks like he won't resign which I think he won't. Unloading Mo Pete will take more convinving as most teams will not want him.


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## Bball_Doctor (Dec 29, 2002)

Also I believe that a trade involving the pick is a very HIGH possibility as I have said since January if the Raps do not finish top 3 in the lottery.


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

i hope they keep the pick, draft bosh and keep bosh for the future.....


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Bball_Doctor</b>!
> 
> 
> Unloading Mo Pete will take more convinving as most teams will not want him.



this is an absolute misperception. i think i'll respond to the other thread. it is not correct from any angle. he is the raptors' most marketable commodity.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ballocks</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> this is an absolute misperception. i think i'll respond to the other thread. it is not correct from any angle. he is the raptors' most marketable commodity.


it's just that other teams don't really need him. most teams (hell, even the raps) are stacked at the 3. if you look to sign a cheap free agent you can come up with someone pretty good- jumaine jones maybe? i'd prefer him to mo pete but that's just me. 

basically, you don't trade FOR mo pete. he might be a welcome addition to any team but no team is clamoring for him. he can be thrown into a trade to provide a cheap, but valuable filler but i don't see too much more than that.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

I would take Kaman. Everyone is saying that Bosh will be better in the long run. Why? Do you really think that Kaman is as good as he will get? He has things to work on, and I'm sure he could get much better as a player. He definitely has potential, just like Bosh.


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## Jehuisthere (Jan 12, 2003)

the difference is Bosh has more potential and is also would be entering his sophomore year whereas Kaman is a senior.....


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## Jehuisthere (Jan 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Vinsanity</b>!
> i hope they keep the pick, draft bosh and keep bosh for the future.....


as do I :yes:


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## sammysamosa (Mar 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Vinsanity</b>!
> 
> 
> heres the reason why we should not pass him up.....we all know he aint like stoudemire and contribute right away, he's for the future not now


all in all the east is pretty small and he might be able to contribute in his first year. I think that's why keon did so well here and not so well in portland


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Portland?

If you mean Sacramento, then you're right.

If you mean Denver, then you're wrong. He didn't get consistent minutes and always had to look over his shoulder if he made one mistake.


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## Ph03NIX99 (Apr 29, 2003)

Last I checked keon played for the Sacremento Kings not the Portland Trail Blazers.


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## toiletscrubber (Sep 22, 2002)

This just comes up to me, remember when they drafted Amare last year, everyone saying that he's not going to do much and stuff like that. And look what he did. 

Although Bosh is no where near the physical maturness of Amare, they are both equally athletic, and Bosh has a better jumper and outside game. 

So I say, go for Bosh, and play him!


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## sammysamosa (Mar 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ph03NIX99</b>!
> Last I checked keon played for the Sacremento Kings not the Portland Trail Blazers.


Ok my bad i'm kinda sleepy :heart: :heart:


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## Jehuisthere (Jan 12, 2003)

I don't think Bosh will be able to have the same sort of impact that Amare did only cuz alot of what Amare was able to do was just his raw power which Bosh needs to develop, without size he won't be able to work in the low post and will be relegated to the outside, once he gains some bulk, he'll be able to get an inside-outside game going ala KG.....


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## DrFunk03 (May 13, 2003)

I dont like Kaman for one reason only...He's white  

He would be a good addition, we could go for a 7-0 C. Go for bosh though...


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