# Corey and the cat.



## Aphasia (Nov 27, 2005)

You people nauseate me. Cuttino isn't in the same league as Corey. The rest of the League knows it and you people know it as well. But yet you run your mouths believing it best for the franchise to get rid of Corey yet retain Sam, Cat, Q Ross, and even James Singleton.

I have written on this board many times the positives I see in Corey's game as well as the flaws I observe. I will not do this again because I know what kind of people you are and it bores me. 

But I do believe we'll all agree the most important games in Clipper history were games 6 and 7 of the Suns series. So it's a great opportunity for us to observe who showed up for those two all important elimination games. Elton Brand is a given because he showed up and dominated the entire series against Phoenix. These are numbers from games 6 and 7. 
_____________________

Corey Maggette: 58 minutes, 43 points, 17 rebounds, 5 assists, 4 turnovers, 2 steals, 12 of 21 from the field, 2 of 6 from three, 17 of 17 from the line. 

Cuttino Mobley: 80 minutes, 19 points, 9 rebounds, 6 assists, 3 turnovers, 2 steals, 7 of 18 from the field, 0 for 3 from three, 5 of 6 from the line. 

Sam Cassell: 70 minutes, 26 points, 4 rebounds, 14 assists, 9 turnovers, 1 steal, 9 of 22 from the field, 0 for 0 from three, 8 of 10 from the line.

Quinton Ross: 65 minutes, 26 points, 6 rebounds, 1 assist, 3 turnovers, 1 steal, 13 of 21 from the field, 0 for 0 from three, 0 for 0 from the line. 

Shaun Livingston: 46 minutes, 18 points, 7 rebounds, 7 assists, 1 turnover, 0 steals, 6 of 13 from the field, 0 for 0 from three, 6 of 6 from the line. 
_____________________

Corey was clearly the Clippers second best player when they needed him the most, despite a season full of injury, lack of practice and absurdly disjointed playing time. 

Q Ross had a career game in game 6 yet was as helpless as the rest of the Show on defense in game 7. 

Shaun Livingston really showed up in game 7, much more so than Sam or Cat. 

Sam Cassell was pretty much non existent games 6 and 7. Isn't that why we traded for him? Isn't this why we just signed him for another 13 million? 

Cuttino Mobley was and is a disgrace. Any of you who would rather see Corey traded than him are as useless as Cat's game. 

Shaun Livingston and Corey Maggette are better basketball players than Sam Cassell and Cuttino Mobley, and they along with Quinton Ross should start next season. 

Sam, Cat and Tim Thomas should all come off the bench, that would be a great bench and they're all good friends who play a similar style of game.


----------



## Aphasia (Nov 27, 2005)

A final note on the Corey/Cuttino comparison. It hurts that Corey has the injury history he does but it is less severe than Shaun's, so let us all pray to the basketball gods that Corey and Shaun have great health the rest of their careers. Anyway on to the comparison. 

Corey Maggette: (including playoffs) - 42 games, 27 minutes per game, 273 of 323 from the line.

Cuttino Mobley : (including playoffs) - 91 games, 38 minutes per game, 254 of 302 from the line. 

In 49 fewer games and 11 fewer minutes per game, Corey made and attempted more free throws than Cat Mobley. 

For the next example we need to compare Corey's 2004-2005 year with Cat's 2005-2006 season because they played close to the same number of games. Let us remember everyone believes this past season the Clippers had better talent, better scorers and shooters than 04-05. 

Corey Maggette: (2004-2005) - 66 games, 37 minutes per game, 225 assists, 3.4 apg. 

Cuttino Mobley : (2005-2006) - 79 games, 38 minutes per game, 238 assists, 3.0 apg. 

What can be learned from these observations? Corey has 10x's the heart of Cat Mobley and for Corey supposedly being the inferior ball handler and passer he sure did have more assists than Cat and got to the rim much easier than Cat, I wonder why? Could it possibly be that Corey Maggette is just that much better than Cat Mobley with 10x's the heart and aggression? 

Yeah but numbers don't account for anything you say, Cuttino Mobley is a much bigger a**h**e than Corey Maggette, well I will give you that, numbers don't tell that story or the one that has Cat disappearing when his team needed him the most.

And if you are man enough to lift 10x's the weight of the man next to you then there are consequences (more injuries and mistakes) but at least you were man enough to risk failure, injury and the utter lack of appreciation displayed by lesser mortals. If you don't respect the kind of player and the kind of man Corey Maggette is then you aren't worth these words written.


----------



## MR. VADA (Jun 29, 2006)

Aphasia said:


> You people nauseate me. Cuttino isn't in the same league as Corey. The rest of the League knows it and you people know it as well. But yet you run your mouths believing it best for the franchise to get rid of Corey yet retain Sam, Cat, Q Ross, and even James Singleton.
> 
> I have written on this board many times the positives I see in Corey's game as well as the flaws I observe. I will not do this again because I know what kind of people you are and it bores me.
> 
> ...


corey is mentally challenged when it come to what to do with the ball when the game is or close to being on the line. i've never seen a player try so hard to get fouled on a jumpshot and look so stupid when he didnt get the call...go to the basket...and stop hatin', some of us want corey gone for a reason...but i can live with his mistakes if he didnt make that many in the playoffs...j.r. smith anyone???...my bad, the bull**** got him...vada


----------



## Aphasia (Nov 27, 2005)

Did I deem Corey flawless? His continued attempts to get a call when trying to force his offense is a fault of his. But how many game winners did Cat hit this year? How many times did he tie the game late? How many times did he carry the team in the fourth quarter? Or carry the team at all to a victory this entire season? How many completely wide open shots did he miss?

For you to bring up the name of J.R. Smith just proves how worthless your observations are. I was impressed with his high school highlight reel as well. Then I saw the series where they followed a few rookies from the 2004 draft class throughtout the season and J.R. Smith time and again proved himself to be a mindless fool. As ignorant as one could be, even more ignorant than D. Miles and Q Rich were during L.A. Hoops.

By the way, I was watching some Rucker League games J.R. Smith was playing in and he couldn't even stand out or dominate in those games, he is in the NBA and a first round draft pick. 

You want low basketball IQ and bad shot selection while playing matador defense, go watch J.R. Smith play and become a Bulls fan.


----------



## matador1238 (May 3, 2006)

Just dont put Maggette in the last 5 minutes of a close game and I am totally cool with it. He is a great scorer but his mistakes are too costly.


----------



## choiboi46 (Jan 12, 2006)

Those were Corey's first elimination playoff games....so those stats are pretty good

For a young team reaching playoffs for first time in awhile, shouldn't it be the veterans who lead the team in the elimination games....

Cassell and Cuttino didnt show up...a combined 12 turnovers from our veteran guards...

In Game 7, Brand Maggette and SL were the most impressive....

Also, I agree that Maggette is much better than Cuttino; Cuttino may have a higher IQ but higher bball IQ doesnt mean a better player; look at Dunleavy Jr, the guy is top 5 in bball IQ yet hes bottom 5 player in the NBA

Maggette's trade value may be at a career low, but its still higher than Mobley; Nobody but the Knicks would take Mobley's contract until he shows that he's worth the money

Maggette will reach his prime the upcoming season, be the 2nd leading scorer, and stay healthy; also, dominate in the playoffs


----------



## og15 (Dec 18, 2005)

> You people nauseate me. Cuttino isn't in the same league as Corey. The rest of the League knows it and you people know it as well. But yet you run your mouths believing it best for the franchise to get rid of Corey yet retain Sam, Cat, Q Ross, and even James Singleton.


Why would you get rid of guys like QRoss and Singleton? They're role players/bench guys who you need on the team, and it's not like you're going to get much for them in a trade especially since they make peanuts.

The reason Corey is talked about so much is because he has good value, he's not making a huge amount of money, probably won't be happy with his minutes, is injured a lot, and he makes a lot of mental mistakes at the worst times (it's okay though). I don't understand why you're comparing him to Cassell. Cassell's value is due to him being a PG, and being a leader, it's not just a statistical output thing.

Mobley's value is with him being an outside shooter, and being able to open the floor for us. I'm not sure how you can determine a players value from 2 games. You know we wouldn't even be in the playoffs without Sam and Mobley. Shaun was not better than Cassell last year, definately not because he played better in 2 games, big games or not. Yes Cassell should lead, but it happens. Maggette is better than Mobley, but Maggette also misses games (a lot), does not give outside shooting to spread the floor, and isn't as useful defensively (though he could be). 

How well would we have done with Maggette missing 20+ games again, and Livingston also missing games? We would've had another situation where a guy like Rick Brunson is starting at PG (or Daniel Ewing I guess it would've been). 




> For the next example we need to compare Corey's 2004-2005 year with Cat's 2005-2006 season because they played close to the same number of games. Let us remember everyone believes this past season the Clippers had better talent, better scorers and shooters than 04-05.
> 
> Corey Maggette: (2004-2005) - 66 games, 37 minutes per game, 225 assists, 3.4 apg.
> 
> Cuttino Mobley : (2005-2006) - 79 games, 38 minutes per game, 238 assists, 3.0 apg.


I think you're failing to realize how much each guy is used, and you're making a vague comparison of the players. In 04-05, Brand, Maggette, and Simmons were the three scorers. 

You reffered to how the team got better shooters last season, but Mobley was part of the better shooting, he can't assist himself. Cassell was the other part of the better shooting, but is a PG, he doesn't score off being assisted, PG's normally create their own shots, and have low assisted percentages. So having Simmons (76% assisted) would actually get you more assists than having Cassell (34% assisted). Radmanovic was the only actual shooting addition, but he didn't score as much as Simmons was, so there actually wasn't much of a difference if any because Mobley is one of the added shooters.

In addition to that, since Livingston played 30 less games in 04-05 than 05-06, and Marko missed 32 games himself, Rick Brunson was PG for a lot of the season (started 40 games or so, Chalmers I think backed him up) which gave Maggette a slightly bigger playmaking role than Mobley had this season where the PG's were actually healthy.


----------



## Aphasia (Nov 27, 2005)

How soon we forget. Corey was the Clippers best player in games three, four and five of the Nuggets series. He single handedly kept them in game 3. Considering his minutes he was easily the most explosive, aggressive and offensively productive player in that series. 

Game four of the Suns series, down 2 games to 1 with Chris Kaman injured Corey is asked to be a rebounder and inside presence, plays portions of that game at the four and gives the team 18 points and 15 boards. His great first half leads the team to a ten point halftime lead. 

Game six of the Suns series, the Suns make a run at the end of the third and into the fourt quarter, threatening to win the series on the Show's home floor. Corey responds by scoring 13 points in that final quarter and along with Elton they ended up winning quite easily at the end. 

Game seven of the Suns series, the idiocy of Mike Dunleavy reveals itself as he again starts Chris Kaman and has him guard Shawn Marion. The Clippers go down 13 early on. When Corey comes in the team is down 13, he attacks and attacks, getting to the line and making open shots, he and Shaun lead an explosive second quarter, the Show ties the game only to see the Suns pull about six straight shots out of their a**es. 

The beginning of the second half Dunleavy again starts Kaman, Mobley and Ross although Corey and Shaun brought them back from down 13 and were playing great. Ten minutes go by with no changes to the lineup, Kaman is getting embarrased by Marion, Mobley has again disappeared when the team needed him the most, Sam is non existent, Ross is getting abused defensively. It is essentially Elton Brand against the Phoenix Suns.

By the time he brings Corey back into the game the team is down 15 with a minute and change left in the third quarter. The Suns are hitting absolutely everything, the Clippers can't score. In the fourth quarter Corey forces his offense trying to make something, anything happen. He looks lost, he looks foolish because the team has lost and the team is looking foolish. 

But instead of remembering the good or great things Corey did in the playoffs to help this team win, you focus on his turning the ball over, missing open shots and flopping. It's what you people do when it comes to Corey, it's what you've always done. If I weren't here to remind you you would never remember.


----------



## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

Aphasia:

Thanks for posting those stats, if for no other reason than HOPEFULLY someone in a position of authority will see them, if they are not already aware of them.

First off, I've given up trying to support Corey on these boards. It's as if, you're stupid if you don't all think alike. They rely on repeated statements about his ball handling as a reason to get rid of him, can never provide a convincing argument. There's no value in work ethics, commitment, dependability and loyalth.

Like you said, it is nauseating (sp?) so we just have to wait and hope for the best.

They NEED to be careful what they wish for. I don't expect Corey to remain their whipping boy forever.


----------



## Aphasia (Nov 27, 2005)

The point all of you keep making is, we need to trade Corey because we have Sam, Cuttino and Tim Thomas now signed, plus we have to sign Kaman and Livingston in the future, along with Q Ross, etc. 

But none of you realize Corey is the second best player on this team. Do you seriously think we could have traded Sam Cassell straight up for Ron Artest, or Cat Mobley, hell even throw in Chris Wilcox who proved to have great worth and will prove it again when he gets an awful lot of money. You want to trade Corey because he has value but yet don't recognize how much that value helps the Clippers win, you are Clippers fans aren't you?

Do you realize how thin the margain for error was this season? Even with Elton scoring 5 ppg more than last year and becoming a top 8 player in the League. With Chris Kaman becoming a top 5 Center. With Sam Cassell being a vastly superior scorer and leader to the likes of Marko and Brunson. With Cat Mobley being supposedly a top 5 shooter in the League. With the trade for Radmanovic. With the supposedly great defense of Q Ross. 

The Clippers were 17th in the League in scoring last year. 17th! That would be fine if they were top 5 in the League in opponent's ppg, but they were only 11th. You want to trade away a proven 22+ppg scorer on a team that needs scoring for a rookie contract or a back up big? Or continue to replace Corey with Q Ross and James Singleton? I like Q and James, I ran my mouth long before any of you about James but James isn't going to help this team score as much as they need to. 

Do any of you remember how incredibly ugly this team was from mid December to early March, a period which just so happened to coincide with Corey's foot injury. There was no ball movement, no player movement, stagnant offense and just enough defense and luck to win games here and there. Why do you think all of you were screaming and screaming for the Artest trade, the team was almost unwatchable during that period. 

Now you want to return to that. It makes no sense what so ever.


----------



## clips_r_teh_wieners (Nov 4, 2005)

Aphasia said:


> The point all of you keep making is, we need to trade Corey because we have Sam, Cuttino and Tim Thomas now signed, plus we have to sign Kaman and Livingston in the future, along with Q Ross, etc.
> 
> But none of you realize Corey is the second best player on this team. Do you seriously think we could have traded Sam Cassell straight up for Ron Artest, or Cat Mobley, hell even throw in Chris Wilcox who proved to have great worth and will prove it again when he gets an awful lot of money. You want to trade Corey because he has value but yet don't recognize how much that value helps the Clippers win, you are Clippers fans aren't you?
> 
> ...


i want to get rid of corey if its with cat mobley. corey + cat + draft pick to boston for pierce. we can have one bonehead on the team, but not two. and two boneheads gone + a veteran star is even better. but this could be wishful thinking. u never know


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

As of now, it doesnt matter much how you work the stats. The fact will remain, as long as dunleavvy is coach, maggette will be in his doghouse (unless he changes some habits), and dunleavvy will be a mobley lover. Now you can argue till the cows come home, just like we could with wilcox, just like we could with singleton, etc. etc. but the fact remains dunleavvy just doesnt like maggette in the system, and its obvious maggette doesnt work well in his system. Now, the question is, why doesnt dunleavvy tweak his system in order to take advantage of the positives of maggs, and lessen his negatives? Who know, i doubt any reporter will ever ask him that. 

Mobley is here for years, and i doubt we will ever be able to unload his deal. After this season, it seems like there are TONS of mobley "haters" on here, almost as many so called "corey haters" (of which i am a member of neither). But you can see why dunleavvy wanted him here. this decade, he has averaged 76 games a year. Played most games on the clipper team this year, 2nd most minutes. (3rd place far behind). Maggs has averaged 63 games a year. Maggette didnt become a scorer until 2003, so taking his point totals from that year lets compare the totals...maggette is always considered the better scorer, but he has averaged 1153 points a year to mobley's 1211. maggs 160 assists a year to mobley 223 a year, etc. etc. So a valid argument when determining worth too would be sure, how much do they give you a game, but at the same time, how much total output are you getting from them? I,E, id rather have kaman average 13 points for nearly the whole year, than just have shaq average 19 for 30 games. 

Mobleys numbers were down across the board this year. Ironically, aside from just learning a new system, Corey is to blame for a lot since mobley was forced to play out of position so much. His shot obviously suffered too, with taller SF's guarding him much of the year, and just the wear and tear of all the defense he had to play agasint those guys, not to mention his hand injuries. 

Personally im not a big time mobley fanatic. I liked his pickup because i thought he was the perfect partner in crime for maggette. Now the problem was maggs got injured, and the two never even got to play together THAT much when he wasnt injured due to dunleavvy's rotations, so we really dont know if this duo is going to work out. My hopes is that dunleavvy puts ross back on the bench to start, and starts maggs and mobley together at least the start of the season to see if something can come of it. I think this year we will see the reemergence of mobley, hes not old yet, hes around the prime of his career, and at SG, and without the injury he should see a lot more open shots. Maggette, i hope will NOT get injured, although history tells us otherwise, but who knows, maybe this is the year we see 77-80 games from maggs. 

But i am almost certain that maggs is gone by either the allstar break, or next summer, due to the fact that he is practically our only tradeable guy in order to get under for the future kaman extension. Of course, if kaman actually is let go, thats another story, but even if kaman is let go, i see the clippers going after a free agent since they have nobody and again, maggette is the only tradable commodity (unless mobley absolutely blows up and has a career year, which i doubt).


----------



## Aphasia (Nov 27, 2005)

I am done with all of you. You just don't understand what I'm saying. It is a philosophy I'm speaking of, much more than any one player or team. One can not visually educate the blind. 

I don't give a ***k who the coach is, it doesn't change the way I see the game or those who play it. If a man can't understand the fact that his seven foot center who has questionable defensive footwork can't guard incredibly athletic six foot seven inch small forwards then any philosophy on the game he has is worthless. Maybe in his 53rd year of life he'll become aware of such things and not cripple his team in the playoffs. 

I know I am right. It has proven itself out time and again. When this team comes close to playing the right way, as I see it, then they not only win but win beautifully. And it has been that way for years, especially but not exclusively with this team, in this sport. 

There is such a clear distinction between the 2004-2005 Clippers and the 2005-2006 Clippers. I wish we could watch and dissect every game as evidence to that distinction, perhaps then it would make itself known but I doubt it. Again, I can't visually educate the blind. 

I have come to this site merely to amuse myself with your absurd declarations. But they have evolved beyond reason. It is quite a sad commentary on human awareness. If you can't understand something as simple and meaningless as basketball then why do you bother waking up every day? 

It is finished. 
Oh, well.


----------



## Roscoe_Clipps (Nov 11, 2005)

Short shirt, blazer
Suffering aphasia

Long tie, windsor not
Tryin' a be a big shot...


----------



## og15 (Dec 18, 2005)

Aphasia said:


> How soon we forget. Corey was the Clippers best player in games three, four and five of the Nuggets series. He single handedly kept them in game 3. Considering his minutes he was easily the most explosive, aggressive and offensively productive player in that series.
> 
> Game four of the Suns series, down 2 games to 1 with Chris Kaman injured Corey is asked to be a rebounder and inside presence, plays portions of that game at the four and gives the team 18 points and 15 boards. His great first half leads the team to a ten point halftime lead.
> 
> ...


Who are you talking to?


----------



## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

:soapbox: 


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

og15 said:


> Who are you talking to?


They know who they are. If the shoe doesn't fit you ... don't bother. Just read his/her message. It is deep, and too deep for those it is intended for.

Aphasia is obviously very connected to the Clippers with deep emotions about what he/she sees happening to the team because of 'personal' preferences and not what is good for the team.

That is all ... Aphasia just wants well thoughtout dialogue to support those against Corey, and to date, there hasn't been.

I think it's more like a poster above said ... in essence ... Dunleavy doesn't want Corey in his system (the one that keeps failing to take a team to the championships) ... so he won't stand for it. Just like with Chris W and Singleton ... if he doesn't like you for whatever personal reason ... you won't be here. We will be left with those that he "likes" for whatever personal reason.

This past season was a good one given where we've been over the years. Trade Corey and get ready for a return to 'the same ole Clippers'. Change is very fragile and there's no guarantee Dunleavy can get the same out of the guys, ESPECIALLY, after his fiasco and mis-coaching throughout the Playoffs.

Trading Corey will be a horrible mistake. Watch ... you could get just what you ask for. I for one will be sitting in the background laughing and coming here to point it out each and every time.


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Honestly i think no matter what corey does with his new team, as the months go by, the "mistake" will be less and less, since we will lose corey no matter what after next season. (07/08) so the more time goes on, the more its going to become a chris wilcox situation for example, where we should get SOMETHING back instead of nothing. Not to mention the whole salary cap issue. Wilcox did great for a month or so in Seattle, but i wouldnt call trading him a mistake since with dunleavvy as our coach, he would have NEVER lived up to his potential here. 

I think its the same with maggette. Dunleavvy has been his coach, what 3 years now? And hasnt figured out a way to minimize maggette's errors, nor maximize his positives? So to think that something is miraculously going to change like dunleavvy coming up with a new "corey-plan" or maggette all of a sudden becoming a dunleavvy type player, i think is wishful thinking. You can argue about right or wrong, but unfortunately it seems like it doesnt matter, its just a fact of life. So in a situation like this, even without the salary cap issues, you almost have to expect a trade, just so we dont lose corey for nothing. 

But dang, can you imagine how far we would have gotten with Artest? And you can bet indiana is kicking themselves now for not doing the maggette deal since they could have gotten 2.5 years out of maggette, instead of .5 years of peja who didnt do much for them. That trade probably will go down as one of the best trades for both teams that never happened. Cilppers would have been helped immensely, as would the pacers have been since both were getting quality guys for a couple of seasons. Oh well.


----------



## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

Dynasty Raider said:


> Aphasia:
> 
> Thanks for posting those stats, if for no other reason than HOPEFULLY someone in a position of authority will see them, if they are not already aware of them.
> 
> ...


Well said Dynasty Raider. I couldnt agree more with you and Aphasia. Ive defended Corey from Day 1 but there is really no use anymore. Half of these people on this board werent even a Clipper fan when Corey was traded to LA. They dont appreciate his game at all. NO one was complaining when Corey was increasing his ppg each yr. No one has any loyalty to Corey which makes me question their loyalty to the Clippers. I love Maggs and I hope he is a Clip for life.


----------



## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

Aphasia said:


> The point all of you keep making is, we need to trade Corey because we have Sam, Cuttino and Tim Thomas now signed, plus we have to sign Kaman and Livingston in the future, along with Q Ross, etc.
> 
> But none of you realize Corey is the second best player on this team. Do you seriously think we could have traded Sam Cassell straight up for Ron Artest, or Cat Mobley, hell even throw in Chris Wilcox who proved to have great worth and will prove it again when he gets an awful lot of money. You want to trade Corey because he has value but yet don't recognize how much that value helps the Clippers win, you are Clippers fans aren't you?
> 
> ...


Aphasia I couldnt agree more with you. Every point of yours is valid. These "New Age" CLip fans have no idea. I ve been praising and defending Maggs all yr.


----------



## Liingston2Seb (Feb 11, 2006)

DaFranchise said:


> Aphasia I couldnt agree more with you. Every point of yours is valid. These "New Age" CLip fans have no idea. I ve been praising and defending Maggs all yr.


Wow aren't we all so insecure to the point that we have to declare to the world that, "It's ok because I liked Maggette all along". This thread had meaning when it started because Aphasia was blowing **** at every other player on this team not named Brand, Maggette or Livingston. But now everyone seems to be sucking up to Aphasia like he has uncovered a great secret about Maggette... well he hasn't. He has resurfaced what was blatantly obvious... Maggette is a valuable player. But value doesn't mean **** when the guy doesn't work on your team. And yes system is important as Dunleavy's system got us into the Western Conference Semi-Finals last season, Dunleavy helped return Cassell to his high level of playing and Dunleavy's system gave Brand the chance to showcase his jumpshot and let Kaman battle inside. Dunleavy's system seems to work for almost everyone BUT Maggette... hmm well what does that say to you? Maybe that Maggette character doesn't fit in the "New Age" Clippers team.

Oh and also, Aphasia don't bash on Ross or Singleton. Just because the Suns shot and incredible percentage in the playoffs doesn't mean that Ross D was directly to blame, maybe other players weren't doing their part.

Btw Roscoe I thought it was:

Short *skirt*, blazer
Suffering aphasia

Long tie, windsor not
Tryin' a be a big shot...


----------



## livingstononefour (Jun 19, 2006)

Has anybody heard of a player simply not fitting in with a team? Maggette is a very under-rated player but he tries to do too much and both sides are better off with Maggette being traded somewhere where he can be utilized properly.


----------



## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

livingstononefour said:


> Has anybody heard of a player simply not fitting in with a team? Maggette is a very under-rated player but he tries to do too much and both sides are better off with Maggette being traded somewhere where he can be utilized properly.


And you've never heard of a coach not fitting in with his team? 

Kaman's progress has been slow as hell, so has Livingston's... 
Brand had the breakout season and yet Dunleavy couldn't figure out a scheme to exploit the fact that one guy gets doubleteamed every single play.... 
How good is an NBA level coach if he can't seem to find a use for a guy like Maggette, an extremely gifted athlete with the speed and desire to attack the basket?
Dunleavy seemed to be the only one all year long that couldn't see how bad McCarty and Mobley were...

In pure coaching ability, Dunleavy is probably one of the bottom 5 in the league. His offense is horrendous, his defense is good, but one of the worst crunchtime coaches and not just this year, but has always been possibly the worst "chemistry" coach.

This team is arguably among the top 3 or 4 teams talent-wise, even with the injuries that occurred, but Dunleavy has not been able to adapt at all. Imagine what Phil Jackson, Stan Van Gundy, Greg Popovich, Mike D'Antoni, Avery Johnson, Rick Carlisle, Mike Fratello, Pat Riley, Rick Adelman or even freakin' Larry Brown would have done with this team. Brand, Maggette and Cassell would've been all-stars.


----------



## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

leidout said:


> In pure coaching ability, Dunleavy is probably one of the bottom 5 in the league. His offense is horrendous, his defense is good, but one of the worst crunchtime coaches and not just this year, but has always been possibly the worst "chemistry" coach.


Damn, Dunleavy takes two supposed 'cancers' in Cassell and Mobley, makes the team one of the best, and is still an awful chemistry coach.  Please, if Dunleavy was awful how come all the coaches give him credit? How come Cassell wants to stay a Clipper and coach UNDER Dunleavy? How come Mobley and now TT all of sudden want to come to a bad coached team? How come Dunleavy was the only person in the longest time for the Clippers was able to take a team and find success? Please don't tell me it was all the players and even X could have could taken this team into the playoffs. Odom, Miller, Brand, Maggette, Q-rich, Kandi, plus others I am forgotting, good team, bad coach. Dunleavy only changed the franchise around, so yeah he is a bad coach. He SUCKS!!!!  

Looks like you are passionate about Maggette, I am passionate about Dunleavy. (not saying I am against Maggette, he should stay)

Now here is my take on the team. Appreciate EVERYONE. They all did their part to take this team to where it got. It is easy to speculate. Many speculated that the Clippers would fail this past-season. Everyone associated with the team proved them wrong. I find it a bit sad to see so much negativity when the team did so well. Had the Clippers not done well, then I can understand the hate. But not now.


----------



## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

(I posted something similar a while back) Maggette would be a great SF if he:
1) learned how to dribble and pass out of convenience rather than necessity
2) remembered how to play D; he used to be considered a stopper, now he's a weaker link than Sam half of the time
3) stopped leaning into guys needlessly... someone can jump 20 feet away and Corey will lurch forward and level out, flail his arms and make a scene... 
4) stop complaining to the refs instead of getting back on D; Corey you know you flopped
5) don't go back on D only to flop taking an imaginary charge, the ref isn't buying it.
6) work on not clutching on his shots... he shots fine when he isn't clutching and shooting on the fall or fading away
7) slash... in the playoffs, he did a great job slashing for the first time in his career.

etc

Basically he's a pure athlete, who needs to get back to retooling his game. If he and Diaz hit the same routine (almost exactly) and work on the same things, they could be all-star quality. Maggette is a top-notch athlete, but not a player... Athleticism counts for a a lot, and he's shown the ability to use it, but he has to put it together. 

The only thing he does consistently is rebound on the defensive end really, and that should change. Q starts because he plays D, is tough, rarely even looks at a ref and hustles. While Maggette often hustles, he should take a lesson from Q on the other attributes. 

Nobody is asking him to handle the ball or pass like Shaun, defend like Artest, shoot like Redd, or lead the team. He's so frustratingly close to being an all-star, and yet so frustratingly clueless on the court oftentimes.


----------



## Roscoe_Clipps (Nov 11, 2005)

TheGoods said:


> 7) slash... in the playoffs, he did a great job slashing for the first time in his career.


I'm pretty sure Maggette's made a living out of slashing and getting to the basket...


----------



## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

TheGoods said:


> (I posted something similar a while back) Maggette would be a great SF if he:
> ...7) slash... in the playoffs, he did a great job slashing for the first time in his career.


Ha, ha, ha. You just exposed yourself as one of the "New Age Clipper Fans" mentioned above, because you OBVIOUSLY don't know a thing about Corey or his game. Slashing to the basket is ONE of the things he has always done best.

That is funny ...


EDIT: That's right ... you're one of those diehard Lakers fans that has recently found reason to post here so how could anyone expect you to know anything about the Clippers?


----------



## Quasi-Quasar (Jul 18, 2002)

Roscoe_Clipps said:


> I'm pretty sure Maggette's made a living out of slashing and getting to the basket...


No, he's made a living out of slashing for the express purpose of drawing a foul... The playoffs were the first time in a long time that he slashed for the purpose of the getting the basket rather than the foul (and he did quite a good job of it). While it may seem like semantics, it's not; it's indicative of his mindset. Additionally, while he formerly did a good job of drawing fouls, he occassionally stagnated the offense by trying to iso to draw fouls waaay too often... He's good at it, but he made it central in his game rather than just another asset.


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

i agree goods. The first few games when it became obvious the refs werent going to call maggette's soccer-like acting jobs...and thus even called offensive fouls on him, its almost like it FINALLY clicked with maggs....he can be just as effective if hes actually TRYING to score instead of solely trying to draw the foul. And he did a great job. I hope he doesnt forget this...how many times do we see him draw the foul after slashing, and then have an easy chance at a 3 point play, but misses the shot because he wasnt even trying for the shot in the first place.

He could lead the league in and ones if he put his mind to it.


----------



## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Dynasty Raider said:


> They know who they are. If the shoe doesn't fit you ... don't bother. Just read his/her message. It is deep, and too deep for those it is intended for.
> 
> Aphasia is obviously very connected to the Clippers with deep emotions about what he/she sees happening to the team because of 'personal' preferences and not what is good for the team.
> 
> ...



Repped.

I agree with all of this. I do have problems with Corey which many people do. I think sometimes he makes bone headed plays that cost possessions durning crunch time. A lot of that is being used to being the guy that has the ball durning the crunch time from the years before a Cat and Cassell were on the team.

But the truth is, no one can argue with his contract, skill, and potiential. Not saying seven million is chump change, but for someone with his ability... Give him another full season, one without injury and fully healthy, and seven million is going to be a joke of an amount to offer him.

I have been the biggest Cat hater. I know he has excuses.. His hand, etc. But towards the end of the season he said his hand felt fine, but he still choked away big games durning the playoff race in the final minutes. Not by missing open shots, but by making stupid turn overs. His defense was the only thing worth mentioning, but thats NOT the reason the Clippers signed him.

I'd much rather Package up Cat and send him somewhere else than to do Corey. But again, I'm not the coach. And Mike D, has always had a beef with Corey it seems.


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

of course the clippers would much rather package cat, since he is older, and has more years on his contract. But thats exactly the reason why we cant. RARELY do you see trades of players that you really WANT to unload, for a player that you really like. Most trades are one sided. 

For the same reason that we would want to give up mobley, is the same reasons that almost no one would want him. Perfect case in point is last year with the pacers. The reason we wanted to give up maggette: he was injured (apart from artest being the superior player), but the pacers didnt want him for said injury. Look at the baron davis trade. they had trouble getting rid of him because of the reason they wanted to get rid of him (bad contract, injury concerns) was the reason almost no one else other than golden state wanted him.

Sorry to ramble, but this is just for the people who say we should trade mobley. The fact of the matter is, just the fact that you want to trade him, should show how hard it would be to actually do that...


----------



## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

yeah it would be reallly difficult to trade Mobley, and if Corey comes into form atleast, he should be able to supply as with 15+ solely off layups and freethrows jaja so for the salary he is getting its 
WORTH IT, thats probably the only reason i wouldnt mind keeping Maggette...like i always say
hes a good "layuper" and well....unless we get someone that can give us the same production or a veteran id say we stick to Corey...and Cuttino...Cuttino played well during the season i mean of course he didnt average 30 pts even 20 i think....but his presence on the floor, and 3s here n their were also a big part of our great year....he could have done more in the post season but eh


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

But at the same time, the clippers would never even WANT to trade mobley unless it was for a3 point shooter. Without mobley were probably worse than denver at three point shooting. 

Im really getting excited to seeing mobley play a full year at SG if maggs can stay healthy at SF.


----------



## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

Weasel said:


> Damn, Dunleavy takes two supposed 'cancers' in Cassell and Mobley, makes the team one of the best, and is still an awful chemistry coach.  Please, if Dunleavy was awful how come all the coaches give him credit? How come Cassell wants to stay a Clipper and coach UNDER Dunleavy? How come Mobley and now TT all of sudden want to come to a bad coached team? How come Dunleavy was the only person in the longest time for the Clippers was able to take a team and find success? Please don't tell me it was all the players and even X could have could taken this team into the playoffs. Odom, Miller, Brand, Maggette, Q-rich, Kandi, plus others I am forgotting, good team, bad coach. Dunleavy only changed the franchise around, so yeah he is a bad coach. He SUCKS!!!!


'Cancer' players are guys that are notorious *******s, make stupid demands and hurt a team (i.e. entire 2000 trailblazers roster, Latrell Sprewell, Steve Francis, etc.)... 

Mobley was not considered a cancer for the majority of his career and only on bbb did anyone even bring this up and he was happy because the Clippers overpaid... 
Cassell was always *****ing about money, and he's happy to stay with the highest bidder... 
Thomas was considered lazy, but he was offered *DOUBLE* the amount of money to join the Clippers... 

Cancers... no. Greedy... yes! No coach would have any problem getting these guys to mesh as long as the GM did his job. All of these guys were just like 90% of the NBA players, completely motivated by money. They are mercenaries, going only to the highest bidder, nothing more. When players actually take less money to play with a great coach/team (Phil Jackson, Popovich, Heat) is the only time I'll consider Dunleavy above-average.

I'll give Dunleavy one thing though, he has a good eye for talent, we're widely considered to be one of the most talented teams all the way down to the 10th man. And even if you don't wanna hear it, talent wise, this is a superior team to the "athletic, young underachievers" that you're referring to. Odom, Miller, Q-rich, Olowokandi and Miles have done nothing beyond becoming glorified roleplayers in their careers. On the other hand....... Cassell has been to the playoffs nearly every year of his career, Brand vastly improved his game, Kaman is better than Kandiman ever was, Q-Ross & Maggette provide more defense AND offense than the clippers have ever had at SF, and our shooting guard at the time was... Keyon freakin' Dooling (even Mobley's suckfest this year was better than that)? I'm sorry, but this team is simply too talent to stay out of the playoffs even with a weak Coach.

So yeah, I don't think Dunleavy is a good coach, simple as that, i'd rather let him walk after this year and give Cassell a chance.


----------



## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

yamaneko said:


> of course the clippers would much rather package cat, since he is older, and has more years on his contract. But thats exactly the reason why we cant. RARELY do you see trades of players that you really WANT to unload, for a player that you really like. Most trades are one sided.



Well a team was stupid enough to over pay him a year ago. Maybe a team is stupid enough to trade for him now.


----------



## DaFranchise (Jun 29, 2005)

Liingston2Seb said:


> Wow aren't we all so insecure to the point that we have to declare to the world that, "It's ok because I liked Maggette all along". This thread had meaning when it started because Aphasia was blowing **** at every other player on this team not named Brand, Maggette or Livingston. But now everyone seems to be sucking up to Aphasia like he has uncovered a great secret about Maggette... well he hasn't. He has resurfaced what was blatantly obvious... Maggette is a valuable player. But value doesn't mean **** when the guy doesn't work on your team. And yes system is important as Dunleavy's system got us into the Western Conference Semi-Finals last season, Dunleavy helped return Cassell to his high level of playing and Dunleavy's system gave Brand the chance to showcase his jumpshot and let Kaman battle inside. Dunleavy's system seems to work for almost everyone BUT Maggette... hmm well what does that say to you? Maybe that Maggette character doesn't fit in the "New Age" Clippers team.
> 
> Oh and also, Aphasia don't bash on Ross or Singleton. Just because the Suns shot and incredible percentage in the playoffs doesn't mean that Ross D was directly to blame, maybe other players weren't doing their part.
> 
> ...


Sucking up? Maybe you should wait till after your 100th post to make assumptions like that. Check out the previous threads smarta$$. This issue has been beaten to death all season. I dont buy that all of a sudden Maggs doesnt fit into Dunleavy's system. That just doesnt make sense. Have you forgotten that Maggs was hurt for half of the season and was having trouble finding his role on the team. Its kind of difficult when Dunleavy was shuffling Maggs in and out of the lineup. You have to question Dunleavys rotation and substitution patters. Dunleavys SYSTEM lost us at least 5 games during the season and the most important Game 5 vs the Suns.


----------

