# Pacers Daily Discussion



## R-Star

Since there isn't always gamedays, I thought I'd make this thread so we have a place we can talk about the games if there isn't another thread to post in.

Anyone see last nights game? I missed it. First thing to that popped out at me when I looked at the box score is it looks like the combo of Hibbert, West and Hansbrough are still rebounding amazingly well. Only 3 games in but a nice sign so far.

Rough night for George going 0-4. He get locked down, or just have a bad game?


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## Gonzo

About ****ing time we shoot over 40%.

Orlando lost to the Pisstons, so that makes me feel a little better about our loss.


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## R-Star

I noticed Orlando losing to the Pistons as well. Was nice to see.


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## Tom

Never know what team will show up.


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## Knick Killer

I was really hoping we'd go into the Miami game undefeated


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## Gonzo

Jeff Foster back, Hansbrough questionable. 



> Injury update
> 
> PF Tyler Hansbrough did not practice Tuesday after injuring his right hand against the Nets on Monday. His status for tonight is uncertain. . . . C Jeff Foster practiced Tuesday and is expected to play tonight.


http://m.indystar.com/sports/article?a=2012201040314&f=1243


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## Pacers Fan

No good. Hansbrough's key against Miami.


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## Gonzo

David West only played ~19 minutes last night against Miami because of that technical foul. **** you Vogel, that's some O'Brien shit right there.


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## R-Star

I hate this team right now. One night they can go out and look like a top 10 team, the next the go out and look like we should be fighting the Wizards for the top pick.

They need to start with some consistency.


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## Gonzo

Granger is shooting 32% from the field and Hansbrough is shooting 35%


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## Knick Killer

HUGE win tonight against Boston. Extremely proud of the guys to hold the Celtics to 72 points. Great comeback win after such a disaster against the Heat. Let's keep this going and get on a roll


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## R-Star

I don't think it will be long for the league to take notice that we're one of the top defensive squads out there. I can't wait for the playoffs.


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## Gonzo

> "Through eight games, Tyler Hansbrough has 87 field goals and 57 rebounds but not a single assist to his credit.
> 
> None.
> 
> He's the only Pacers player without an assist and is one of just three NBA players averaging more than 20 minutes who are assist-less, the others being Derrick Favors and Joel Anthony.


He's probably only made a handful of passes this year.


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## R-Star

When Hansbrough gets the ball hes taking wild shots where sometimes it looks like a toddler trying to throw the ball in the net. Dude hardly passes.

Whatever though. He is doing what hes supposed to out there. Hustle points and rebounds. I'm ok with it.


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## Gonzo

> Pacers Indiana Pacers
> Updated #Pacers injury report: @dgranger33 (food poisoning) & @George_Hill3 (sore lower back) are game-time decisions.
> 6 minutes ago


Time for Danny to chuck up some more shots tonight


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## Gonzo

> @MikeWellsNBA: "Add Roy Hibbert (ankle) to the game-time decision list 4 2night's game, too. Indy may have to ask Brian Shaw to come out of retirement. HA"


Might be a good thing I can't watch the majority of the game tonight, but if PG has a career game I will not be happy I missed it.


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## Gonzo




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## R-Star

Man... looking even weirder out there is the last thing he needs.


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## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> Man... looking even weirder out there is the last thing he needs.


He got bumped by an elbow in the eye last night and was forced to miss the 4th quarter. Maybe he's giving up on contacts?


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## Gonzo

Pacers winning close games... They didn't do that last year, even without Granger. While I wasn't impressed with the fact that Granger was an idiot and forgot he had 1 technical foul, it was nice to see a little bit of blackness actually come out of him. I didn't know the dude had a little bit of swagger.


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## Ben

Through 12 games, SEVEN Pacers are averaging 10 or more points per game.


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## Gonzo

ßen said:


> Through 12 games, SEVEN Pacers are averaging 10 or more points per game.


And the most players on the all star ballot but no one even close in the running. Pacers need some more exposure.


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## Knick Killer

Frustrating loss to the Kings last night. Anybody catch the game?


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## R-Star

Didn't catch it other than following the box score. Cousins looks like he was tearing us apart. Don't understand how we let him dominate us on the glass so bad.


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## Gonzo

Knick_Killer31 said:


> Frustrating loss to the Kings last night. Anybody catch the game?


Don't want to talk about it. 

They were pretty active on the boards all night, which is something hard to stop when you've got a guy like Roy Hibbert who just isn't fast enough to stop Cousins when he decides to go ape shit.

They brought out a 2-3 zone in the 4th that killed us.


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## Gonzo

I know why Larry brought George Hill to Indiana now.


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## Pacers Fan

Barely pulled that one off. I still don't know why Collison was in the game on that last defensive possession. He completely lost Curry and let him have a wide open look. Even though George Hill did a great job on Ellis, I would've liked to have seen Hill on Curry and George on Ellis for defensive purposes.

Speaking of Paul George, dude needs some lower body strength badly. He's really only effective on straight-line drives (like Granger) and coming off screens. He needs a more diverse offensive game so he can be more aggressive.

Loving the Hibbert/West combination down low. They're aggressive on both ends of the floor and rebound exceptionally well (unless we're facing DeMarcus Cousins).


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## Gonzo

Pacers Fan said:


> Speaking of Paul George, dude needs some lower body strength badly. He's really only effective on straight-line drives (like Granger) and coming off screens. He needs a more diverse offensive game so he can be more aggressive.


He also needs a personality transplant on the court. Too much mentoring with Danny.


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## Ben

Gonzo said:


> I know why Larry brought George Hill to Indiana now.


For his superb kicking skills?


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## Pacers Fan

Gonzo said:


> He also needs a personality transplant on the court. Too much mentoring with Danny.


Too much toking it up with Brandon Rush last year made him passive.


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## Gonzo

ßen said:


> For his superb kicking skills?


I must've missed that "kick ball" that everyone says happened. 

Just watched the replay, last night I didn't think he kicked it. I guess he did. Good thing the refs are human.


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## Gonzo

Pacers Fan said:


> Too much toking it up with Brandon Rush last year made him passive.


Josh McRoberts sure did take advantage. White men can't jump!


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## Ben

Gonzo said:


> I must've missed that "kick ball" that everyone says happened.
> 
> Just watched the replay, last night I didn't think he kicked it. I guess he did. Good thing the refs are human.


Haha, yeah he did kick it, but I'm only kidding. Hell of a play apart from that though.


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## Gonzo

ßen said:


> Haha, yeah he did kick it, but I'm only kidding. Hell of a play apart from that though.


It was great. I complain all the time that the Pacers don't have one guy to go to every time, but having 6 might just work out for us. 

Since we don't play well on our west coast road trips I was expecting a loss, but I came away with a pleasant surprise. I even forgot to watch Brandon Rush... too bad.


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## R-Star

Finally a nationally televised game tonight. Can't wait.


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## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> Finally a nationally televised game tonight. Can't wait.


Not in the good old US of A


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## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> Not in the good old US of A


I'm still debating on getting League Pass. But if I can wait until the playoffs all the games will be televised.


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## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> Finally a nationally televised game tonight. Can't wait.


Yeah I'm super pumped. Unless the Pacers are playing the Raptors, we never get any games up here.


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## R-Star

Knick_Killer31 said:


> Yeah I'm super pumped. Unless the Pacers are playing the Raptors, we never get any games up here.


Yep. I've only seen 2 televised games up here this year with the one and the one against the Raps. After free League Pass ended its been hard to keep up with the team.


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## Knick Killer

Huge win tonight This isn't the same Lakers from the past but still a very good basketball team we beat tonight. Loved what I saw from us in the 4th quarter.


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## R-Star

Yep, huge win, and amazing game from Hibbert. 

Hill once again was clutch off the bench and really impressed me.


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## Ben

Thank you Pacers. And Paul George's 13points. (betting)

I didn't catch the game, but I'm trying to see as much Pacers ball as possible this year. Something about winning games like this without anyone scoring 20 points is admirable to me. I love a good team game of basketball.


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## Gonzo

All of the starters were in double digits though.


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## Ben

Gonzo said:


> All of the starters were in double digits though.


That's my point lol. Winning games by sharing the ball, everyone chipping in with their points is great to see. No-one had to go off for 25+.


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## Gonzo

Roy was apparently 8-9 in the second half last night, pretty phenomenal with a broken freakin' nose and Andrew Bynum guarding you.


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## Knick Killer

Yeah Big Roy was fantastic. Showed he's a tough son of a bitch too playing with a broken nose.


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## Pacers Fan

Gonzo said:


> Roy was apparently 8-9 in the second half last night, pretty phenomenal with a broken freakin' nose and Andrew Bynum guarding you.


Roy just had this look in his eyes last night like he wanted to go all Hungry Hungry Hibbert and eat Andrew Bynum alive in that second half. And that he did.


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## Gonzo

> @conrad_brunner
> Paul George is like a baby deer, sometimes getting his legs all tangled, other times bounding over everything to take what he wants.


Well I can't wait until this kid gets older.


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## Knick Killer

Well let's just forget about that Orlando game. We got the big win tonight in Chicago which is their first loss at home this year. Unfortunately didn't get to see tonights game but did anyone here catch it?


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## R-Star

Wasn't able to catch it, but obviously happy with the outcome. We needed that win. If we fell to Orlando and the Bulls, I don't think people would take our record very seriously.


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## Gonzo

Watched the 2nd half. We came out of the break with some energy and got the lead back in the 3rd and never looked back. Bench played pretty good.


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## Gonzo

Derrick Rose doesn't like the Pacers celebration.


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## R-Star

How good are we when Foster returns? 

I hate to be that guy, but I think we have a shot against any team in a 7 game series. Obviously underdogs against the Heat or Bulls, but I wouldn't be nearly as surprised as most if we knocked out a favorite in the playoffs.


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## Luke

I couldn't see you guys winning 4 out of 7 against the Bulls and especially the Heat, but if I was an Indiana fan I wouldn't be afraid of anyone else out east.


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## Gonzo

1 year ago today we fired Jim O'Brien. Amazing how quickly things turned around...


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## Knick Killer

Gonzo said:


> 1 year ago today we fired Jim O'Brien. Amazing how quickly things turned around...


No kidding. Vogel definitely deserves to be in the running for coach of the year.


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## Knick Killer

The Nets lost to the Raptors last night by 21 points and were playing them at home tomorrow. Can't afford to lose the easy ones if we wanna have a chance at the #3 seed in the East(which I think is a realistic goal).


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## Gonzo

Pacers are hopefully over losing easy ones and playing down to other teams' talent. We need Foster.

Perhaps we can persuade DWill to enjoy Indianapolis.


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## Gonzo

Also, apparently David West is #10 on the MVP ladder ranks... He's going to have to get going if he wants to win.


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## Knick Killer

Gonzo said:


> Pacers are hopefully over losing easy ones and playing down to other teams' talent. We need Foster.
> 
> Perhaps we can persuade DWill to enjoy Indianapolis.


I like the way you think...


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## Gonzo

Hibbert just hit a 3 but they called it off due to a travel, mother****ers.


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## Gonzo

Paul George had a trending worldwide dunk tonight, I'm sure it will be on Youtube soon. I think it earns top 10 on NBA.com but we're the Pacers so it probably won't.

Let PG fly. I'd like to see him in the dunk contest.


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## PaCeRhOLiC

Nice win Gonzo, really like the effort that Granger put all game long...

One thing I like to point out though is that Lance is straight garbage, that bum is only good for 2 things...Turnovers, and bad defense.

I hope he's gone real soon, because I really can't stand anything about that guy.


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## Basel




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## PaCeRhOLiC

LOL, that was fast.

Definitely a top 10 play by PG.


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## Knick Killer

I can't decide what's nicer, Paul Georges dunk or those beautiful ABA jerseys we were reppin tonight.


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## Pacers Fan

PaCeRhOLiC said:


> One thing I like to point out though is that Lance is straight garbage, that bum is only good for 2 things...Turnovers, and bad defense.
> 
> I hope he's gone real soon, because I really can't stand anything about that guy.


I really like Stephenson. He's a willing and very talented passer, has a mid-range game, and can attack the basket. He's a better defender than Collison (not saying much), but his deal is that he adds a completely different dynamic to the team. Even if it's for 10 mpg, it's really helpful having a guy off the bench with size who can play with George Hill, attack the basket, and be a playmaker. Sometimes this team gets jump shot happy, and it's times like that where I'm glad we have Dahntay, Lance, and David West who will actually attack the basket. And really, 2 points on 1-2 shooting, 5 assists, 2 rebounds, 1 steal, and 1 block in 12 minutes is a pretty good line. The one turnover he had was absolutely Granger's fault (unlike the Amundson pass to Granger where Danny really had no reason to be looking for that).


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## Gonzo

> PacersDMB David Benner
> George Hill has a small chip fracture in left ankle; out indefinitely; team will know more in a couple of days. Will not travel next 2


Appears as though Stephenson/Price will be getting a lot more time.


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## Pacers Fan

Gonzo said:


> Appears as though Stephenson/Price will be getting a lot more time.


And Dahntay Jones. I know Vogel's going to put a Price/Stephenson/Jones/Hansbrough/Amundson lineup on the floor at some point and it's going to be the worst lineup known to man. As much as I just praised Dahntay above, I really wish we'd kept Rush, ditched Dahntay for a scrub, and signed some random Center like Earl Barron.


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## Gonzo

**** Blackhole Jones.

I'm not really sure I want Brandon Rush standing around in the 2nd string offense, we have enough of that.


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## Gonzo

Pacers win three in a row, 2-3 of those on the road. Danny shot the ball well tonight, whole team played pretty tough.


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## Pacers Fan

Gonzo said:


> **** Blackhole Jones.
> 
> I'm not really sure I want Brandon Rush standing around in the 2nd string offense, we have enough of that.


Well, if we'd played him with Stephenson and George, I don't think we'd have that big of a problem, especially if West is playing. I think we'd be absolutely fine running George off some screens for mid-range jumpers the way we do Granger and having Lance run some isolations and pick and rolls. George still needs to be more aggressive and Vogel's right by putting him in with the 2nd unit, which hopefully should be encouraging him to score more and be more confident with his shot.

But yes, very impressive win tonight. Outside Stephenson and Price, pretty much everyone looked great (Dahntay Jones looked like Dahntay Jones). Lou and Hansbrough were battling on the interior tonight, as was Hibbert. Granger absolutely carried the way. I don't know how much he worked on it over the off season, but his ball handling's noticeably better this season, he has a post game, and he can actually finish inside with some regularity. Now that his shot is starting to fall, Granger's going to be a dangerous offensive player. And he's really stepping it up on defense, too. It really is true that he's a slow starter. He does need the entire preseason and training camp to really heat up, and we're seeing that now for sure.


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## Knick Killer

Another nice win on the road tonight. Minny is a solid team so it's a respectable road win for sure. Nice to see Granger come up with a huge game tonight. Theres going to be games where he'll have to carry the offense when others are struggling.


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## RollWithEm

Granger has really impressed me this season. He's not putting up as big numbers as he has in the past, but he's picking his spots very well. He's doing a good job of facilitating a little more than usual while allowing the younger guys to flourish... until they need him to score big like he did last night. He's always struck me as a perfect Pippen to someone else's Jordan. This year's Pacers have sort of a "collective Jordan", and he's adjusted nicely.


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## Bogg

PaCeRhOLiC said:


> One thing I like to point out though is that Lance is straight garbage, that bum is only good for 2 things...Turnovers, and bad defense.


Also domestic violence. Can't forget the domestic violence. Rounds out the package.


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## Knick Killer

> "I'm extremely impressed with them," Carlisle said. "It's so great to see Larry (Bird)'s vision be realized because he knew this was going to take some time. He knew he was going to have to be opportunistic with acquiring veteran players to go with (Danny) Granger and some of the young pieces.
> 
> "The David West acquisition was brilliant. It was so typical of Larry. He studied it, there was a health issue there but they've got as great a medical staff there as anybody in the league but they analyzed it and realized there wasn't the risk a lot of teams probably thought there was. The reality is, at this point, they're one of a handful of teams that's a legit contender for a title."


http://www.nba.com/pacers/caught_web_pacers_blog_rick_carlisle_2012_02_02.html

Did someone respectable actually refer to us as...contenders? It's been a while since we've heard that word used with the Pacers.


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## RollWithEm

Knick_Killer31 said:


> Did someone respectable actually refer to us as...contenders? It's been a while since we've heard that word used with the Pacers.


Just since the Brawl at the Palace. Relative to many other teams, it hasn't really been that long.


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## Gonzo

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors



> According to Jimmy Smith of The Times-Picayune, the Indiana Pacers may actually be the leader to land Kaman and he writes: "A league source said Wednesday night that the Indiana Pacers, one of several other teams reportedly in the mix for Kaman, could, in fact, be the leading candidate for a swap. The Pacers apparently are looking for a backup to Roy Hibbert."
> 
> The Pacers currently have $14.27 million in salary cap room and they could absorb Kaman's $14 million cap number without sending a player to the Hornets.
> 
> -- Nick Borges


I don't like the idea of Kaman taking Fosters minutes, but he's a bit better than Foster offensively.


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## Pacers Fan

Chris Kaman is dramatically better than Foster at every facet of the game. I'm sure they're about equal at rebounding right now since Foster still works his ass off, but we if we can get Kaman for 20 or so minutes a game and have Foster play scrub minutes at C and PF instead of Amundson, that'd be spectacular. Not many teams in the league would have a better big rotation than Hibbert/Kaman/Foster/West/Hansbrough.


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## PaCeRhOLiC

Completely agree PF...

We need to get Kaman here ASAP!


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## R-Star

No more Amundson? I'm all for it then.


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## Knick Killer

We've beaten the Lakers, Bulls and Mavericks all on the road in the last week or two. Add Chris Kaman to the team and were looking REAL good.


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## R-Star

Knick_Killer31 said:


> We've beaten the Lakers, Bulls and Mavericks all on the road in the last week or two. Add Chris Kaman to the team and were looking REAL good.


Legit contenders like Miami, Chicago, OKC? No. But lumped in with the other few contenders in the league in my opinion.


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## Knick Killer

Watching the game against the Jazz right now. Impressed with what I've seen from Gordon Hayward tonight. He's lookin pretty good infront of the hometown crowd. We had a nice 20 point lead in the 3rd but the Jazz got on a run and cut it down to under 10 points. Collison has looked very good and I like what I've seen from Stephenson this game as well.


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## Knick Killer

Up 7 going into the 4th.


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## Knick Killer

Now were only up 1 with 8 minutes left in the 4thmg:


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## Knick Killer

We can't even make a pass down low to Roy Hibbert. He's posting up in perfect position but were standing out on the wing staring right at him making the pass too easy to deflect. Down 1 now argghhh


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## Knick Killer

Jazz hit a couple nice shots in a row to get a 3 point lead and Big Roy comes back with a HUGE bucket with the foul. Tie game with 3 minutes left


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## Knick Killer

PAUL GEORGE FOR 3!


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## roux

Have you always been a Pacer fan R star?


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## Knick Killer

Danny Granger bitches about every single call. Like stfu already man and play


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## Knick Killer

roux2dope said:


> Have you always been a Pacer fan R star?


I think he was a fan in the Reggie days, bailed when we had losers like Travis Diener and Ike Diogu, and now since we have a respectable team again he's back.


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## roux

Knick_Killer31 said:


> I think he was a fan in the Reggie days, bailed when we had losers like Travis Diener and Ike Diogu, and now since we have a respectable team again he's back.


I see.. just didnt know he actually khe had an allegiance to a team


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## Knick Killer

Pacers win 104-99. Frustrating second half. Really struggled on offense towards the end of the 3rd quarter and the beginning of the 4th. Almost let this game get away but a couple big shots at the end saved our ass. A win over Atlanta tomorrow night would be huge and I'm really looking forward to the game against Memphis on Friday as well. No easy games this week.


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## RollWithEm

Knick_Killer31 said:


> Pacers win 104-99. Frustrating second half. Really struggled on offense towards the end of the 3rd quarter and the beginning of the 4th. Almost let this game get away but a couple big shots at the end saved our ass. A win over Atlanta tomorrow night would be huge and I'm really looking forward to the game against Memphis on Friday as well. No easy games this week.


All I kept thinking during that game was: has anyone regressed more in the last 3-4 than Devin Harris?


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## Knick Killer

Should've won tonight in Memphis. Apparently we have no idea how to guard a backdoor cut. Back-to-back losses and now we got Denver at home tomorrow night. I really don't want to go into the Miami game on a three game losing streak.


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## R-Star

Didn't get to see the game. The boys need to get it together.


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## Knick Killer

Third loss in a row last night. Didn't catch the game but it was another close one. Were still sitting nicely at 17-10 but we really need to get back on track. A win on Tuesday against Miami would be huge.


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## Ben

You've got 2 days rest whilst we'll be on the 3rd night of a back to back to back. Could be ugly.


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## R-Star

I'm glad I fell asleep halfway through the game.


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## Gonzo

Caught the first half of the Memphis game on the radio and the last half on the tv, and the last half seemed like a completely different ball game with Memphis pretty much controlling the tempo. Defense sucked and we couldn't contain Rudy Gay at all. Back door cuts are lethal to Danny Granger and Paul George.

Missed the Denver game and probably glad that I did. Roy had a bad night by the looks of it. The target on his back only got bigger after getting the All-Star nod, it will be interesting to see how he deals with it this year around because if I remember correctly last year when teams started concentrating on shutting him down he started to struggle and his numbers looked a lot like Saturday night's game. 

Don't want to lose 4 in a row, but it's certainly possible with Miami regardless of their schedule. Fortunately, I think after the Miami game the hardest stretch of our schedule is over. Having two days rest and at least one practice (hopefully) should do the team some good.


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## Knick Killer

Lost to Miami by 35 last time but luckily this time Miami is playing their 3rd game in 3 nights and we are coming off of 2 days rest. A win tonight would be huge.


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## Gonzo

Just turned on the game, disgusting.


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## Knick Killer

I turned it off a long time ago. Do we just not match up well with Miami or what?


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## Gonzo

We leave our balls at home.


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## Gonzo

Good thing Juwan Howard got thrown out of this game. Now let's win.


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## Gonzo

Danny is hurt again. Some kind of strange sprain not really doing anything to provoke it.


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## R-Star

This current losing streak is ruining my life.


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## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> This current losing streak is ruining my life.


:yep:


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## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> This current losing streak is ruining my life.


This current losing streak is ruining my liver. 

FTFY


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## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> This current losing streak is ruining my liver.
> 
> FTFY


Glad I've been stuck at work during the streak. Otherwise it would just be my wife yelling "Why are you drinking so much!" with me slurring "The Pacers ****ing suck"


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## Gonzo

Had to buy a 5th in preparation of our 5th straight loss. We better not lose to the ****ing Cavaliers.


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## Knick Killer

Currently down 29-15 to Cleveland. I don't even want to watch the game. I can't even imagine how shitty we look out there.


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## Gonzo

We look like a completely different team than we did at the beginning of the season. It feels like Jim O'Brien is coach again.


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## Gonzo

Now I know why no one comes to the home games, because you don't know who's going to ****ing show up. This team is ****ing bland.

I was going to buy tickets to the Hawks game on March 6, but I don't think I will now.


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## Knick Killer

:jr:


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## Gonzo

Pacers look like they actually have life tonight. Played a bad first quarter but team has looked a lot better since then. Defense has tightened up and it looks like we're actually planning an offense and not just running around jacking shots.

Still no answer for Kris Humphries. Is it just me or does it always look like that dude was taking a nap before every game? Hair always messed up and that dumb look on his face.


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## R-Star

This team needs a win tonight, or a trade tomorrow. 

Slumps happen, and I can deal with them, but this is just ridiculous.


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## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> This team needs a win tonight, or a trade tomorrow.
> 
> Slumps happen, and I can deal with them, but this is just ridiculous.


We won our last game.

I'm watching golf right now, but I just checked the score and we're up 20 so I don't have to worry too much.


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## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> We won our last game.
> 
> I'm watching golf right now, but I just checked the score and we're up 20 so I don't have to worry too much.


Not sure why I thought NJ beat us. 

Been watching the game so far, West is playing great. I think we have this one in the bag.


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## PaCeRhOLiC

Gonzo said:


> I just checked the score and we're up 20 so I don't have to worry too much.



We're almost up by 40 right now...Charlotte is worst than a pee-wee team.


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## PaCeRhOLiC

LOL, a 40 point lead after 3.

No reason whatsoever to play any of the starters again tonight.


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## R-Star

Funny that Amundson didn't come in until late in the third in this game, yet in close games we're always throwing him in there like hes going to stem the tide. 

I'll be happy with Foster back. I hate seeing Pendergraph stupid face on the bench. Thanks for taking up a roster spot asshole.


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## Knick Killer

Vogel must've lit a fire under our asses before the game...or Charlotte is just ****ing brutal. Either way, always nice to beat the hell outta somebody.


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## R-Star

Knick_Killer31 said:


> Vogel must've lit a fire under our asses before the game...or Charlotte is just ****ing brutal. Either way, always nice to beat the hell outta somebody.


Yep. Nice to get the team rolling.


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## Knick Killer

Just started watching the game against New Orleans tonight. Look forward to discussing the game with Pacerholic....oh wait he never posts here.unk:


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## Gonzo

Really don't think berating another poster if you're a mod is very constructive.


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## R-Star

6 players in double figures tonight and we roll to another win. 

Team is playing the way I expect them to. Seems like we win when I'm home from work and lose when I go away.


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## PaCeRhOLiC

Gonzo said:


> Really don't think berating another poster if you're a mod is very constructive.



What else is new, you know...and sorry I can't rep you brother


> You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Gonzo again


But back to the game, it was a nice win, and Hibbert had his best game of the season which is great, but I just wish Paul would've made that game winner, but whatever.

Really frustrating game to watch early on, I had a bad feeling that we were gonna give them this W, but luckily they ran out of gas at the end.

Good win, we could've done a lot better though, but I'll take it.


----------



## Knick Killer

Gonzo said:


> Really don't think berating another poster if you're a mod is very constructive.


I'm just teasing. I actually found out about this site from Pacerholic so I owe him for that.

Nice to see we've bounced back from our losing streak with 3 wins in a row. Totally dominated overtime with a 13-2 run and Roy Hibbert proves once again why he's an all star.


----------



## Knick Killer

PaCeRhOLiC said:


> What else is new, you know...and sorry I can't rep you brother
> 
> But back to the game, it was a nice win, and Hibbert had his best game of the season which is great, but I just wish Paul would've made that game winner, but whatever.
> 
> Really frustrating game to watch early on, I had a bad feeling that we were gonna give them this W, but luckily they ran out of gas at the end.
> 
> Good win, we could've done a lot better though, but I'll take it.


Lol you took a little jab at me the other day, the least I could do is return the favour. :airjordan:


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Knick_Killer31 said:


> Roy Hibbert proves once again why he's an all star.



If Roy would play like that every single game, we would be right there with Miami, and Chicago.

Hopefully this is the start of him dominating like he should on a consistent basis.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Knick_Killer31 said:


> Lol you took a little jab at me the other day, the least I could do is return the favour. :airjordan:



We're still cool...Let's just enjoy this W. :clap:


----------



## R-Star

Look at that. The 4 of us, a crazy, disfunctional family.


----------



## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> Look at that. The 4 of us, a crazy, disfunctional family.


That reminds me, Jeremy hasn't been around for a long time. He got us all excited that he came out of retirement and then poof he's gone again.:favre:


----------



## R-Star

Knick_Killer31 said:


> That reminds me, Jeremy hasn't been around for a long time. He got us all excited that he came out of retirement and then poof he's gone again.:favre:


Yea, that was short lived.


----------



## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> Yea, that was short lived.


Well he does have a girlfriend now. And he's found Jesus.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> Well he does have a girlfriend now. And he's found Jesus.


Could just be a lady boy named Hey-Zus.


----------



## Gonzo

In case you missed it.


----------



## Ben

That was beautifully smooth.


----------



## Gonzo

Danny Granger's shooting form looks horrible again. No wonder you can't hit anything, quit chucking.


----------



## R-Star

Huge game for Hansbrough. Played the bench a ton tonight. Hell, even Amundson dominated on the glass so I can't say anything bad about him. 

I notice Foster isn't playing again. I don't think we can really rely on him anymore. Maybe its time to think of trading for a quality backup for the 4-5.


----------



## Gonzo

I just don't think Foster isn traveling with the team or doing back to backs because of his back. 

Apparently Vogel thinks that Lou makes up for Foster, which he does because he's pretty much the same person except younger and has hair, but just doesn't have the Foster presence and tenacity.


----------



## R-Star

If Amundson could rebound or play with grit anywhere near Fosters level I'd love him.

Amundson stinks.


----------



## Gonzo

It's fun to watch him try to dunk and get blocked. Dude you're white and you have a ****ing pony tail / bun. Not posterizing anyone soon.


----------



## R-Star

Yea, dude looks like he should be more concerned about "catching a wave" or playing ultimate frizbee.


----------



## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> Yea, dude looks like he should be more concerned about "catching a wave" or playing ultimate frizbee.


I don't think that dude is coordinated to do such a thing, but he did come from San Francisco.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Nice win, just caught the highlights, and I'm so glad we're back to our winning ways.

Box score doesn't look so spectacular, but the W is all that matters, unfortunately I fell asleep and couldn't catch the game though.

Also great to have Hill back, this bench has been desperately missing him.


----------



## Gonzo

We're second to last in attendance at the All-Star break.










It's embarrassing, not sure if things will change anytime soon until we get a star that people will back. Hopefully Paul George is that man.


----------



## R-Star

We do need a star. To me we have one of the most exciting young teams in the league. To be 29th in attendance is ridiculous.


----------



## Gonzo

I have no idea how the Bobcats are 15th, but they do have Kemba Walker.


----------



## R-Star

Miller put on this years HOF ballot. Congrats Reg, well deserved.


----------



## Gonzo

Reggie will most likely get in considering it's a weak class, although we said that last year too. Congrats Reggie.

On another note, PG looked good during last night's Rising Stars game.


----------



## R-Star

Didn't get to catch it. Looking forward to him winning the dunk comp tonight.


----------



## Porn Player

PG had a sick throwdown last night. 


He's a lock for tonight. My boy DeMar thinks the same, and if anyone should know, it's the dunk champ of the past two years.


----------



## R-Star

Still think you guys should trade Derozan for Danny Granger. 

Look bro, I'm just trying to make your team better. Do the deal.


----------



## Knick Killer

Paul George makes a name for himself tonight and I am really looking forward to it. I expect Chase Budinger to surprise some people as well. Should be a better dunk contest than what most people think.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

He's the best one in the contest, no reason why PG won't win it.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

R-Star said:


> Miller put on this years HOF ballot. Congrats Reg, well deserved.



About time!


----------



## Gonzo




----------



## R-Star

Crazy thing is, it looks effortless for PG.


----------



## Knick Killer

PG's 3 dunks have looked pretty good! Jumpin over Big Roy, dunk in the dark, and honouring the boss.


----------



## Knick Killer

Paul George got robbed!


----------



## Gonzo

Yet another example of how the Pacers aren't recognized nationally.


----------



## Gonzo

Pacers blowing out Golden State right now.

Paul George has a great stat line going


----------



## Knick Killer

Looks like we got our 5th straight win tonight! We are beating the crap out of G-State and everyone is chipping in. Chose to watch the Hoosiers-MSU game tonight instead but it's nice to see that we've bounced back in such a strong way from our losing streak we had a couple weeks ago.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Missed the game again, but I really love how this team has responded after that ugly losing streak.

The real test of the season starts after the Hornets game..


----------



## Knick Killer

We cannot let an easy game tonight against the Hornets slip away. We have a really tough stretch of games coming up soon and we got to win these easy ones if we want to stay near the top of the East.


----------



## Gonzo

With the long lay off I'm sure we've had plenty of time to get some real practices in, just in time for a tough stretch of games.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Knick_Killer31 said:


> We cannot let an easy game tonight against the Hornets slip away



I'm pretty confident that we will not only win, but win big again...

With everybody healthy, and us getting our defense, and hustle rebounds back, I see no reason why this team won't finish the season strong.

GO PACERS!!!


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Gonzo said:


> With the long lay off I'm sure we've had plenty of time to get some real practices in, just in time for a tough stretch of games.



LL my man...We got this!! :champagne: :buddies:


----------



## Knick Killer

6th straight win! Granger led the way with 20 points.


----------



## Gonzo

Only caught the score. I was pleasantly surprised to get a blow out for our 6th straight. Now lets go for 10 in a row


----------



## Knick Killer

Next game Monday night in Chicago. The rivalry between us is quietly coming back and I would love to hand the Bulls another loss on their home court.


----------



## Knick Killer

This is the most excited I've been for a Pacers game in a long time. I actually get the game on TV up here as well so I'll be flipping back and forth between this and Raw. Hopefully we can piss off Derrick Rose another victory celebration:jigga:. A couple of my buddies are big Bulls fans too so we get pretty heated during these games which makes it even more fun. Hopefully its a good one and some of you guys are watching.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

LET'S GO PACERS!!!!


----------



## Knick Killer

We looked AWFUL at the beginning of the first quarter. We could barely hit the rim but we picked it up and were only down 2 going to the 4th.


----------



## Knick Killer

Everybody expecting Derrick Rose to tear us up tonight cause of our "celebration" after last time but he's shooting 1/9 and only has 2 points. It's not all good news for us though as Roy Hibbert already has 3 fouls ughhh.


----------



## Knick Killer

Ugggh very frustrating second half. We did not deserve to win this game at all.


----------



## Gonzo

Watched the first half, missed the second. Glad I missed the second. Starters didn't look like they had too much fire, as usual.


----------



## Gonzo

I'll be going to the game tonight, they better not disappoint.


----------



## Knick Killer

How much are tickets these days to a Pacers game if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## Knick Killer

Only caught the last minute of a game. Frustrating to lose at home to Atlanta WITHOUT Joe Johnson in the line up. We really needed this one.


----------



## Gonzo

Knick_Killer31 said:


> How much are tickets these days to a Pacers game if you don't mind me asking?


I paid about $28 for mid level but it was 2 for 1 Tuesdays. Got more to say tomorrow.


----------



## Gonzo

It was a fun game but a tough loss. We played stupid defense in the second half after coming back from being down 16. Josh Smith played an awesome game and was just on fire, but our defensive rotations sucked which pretty muh caused the loss. Too many times guys were left wide open in the corner and even under the basket which shouldn't ****ing happen five times in a row down the floor. We missed too many free throws and of course the offense stalled in the 4th. I also questioned a lot of Frank Vogel's decisions on timeouts and lineups, there were a couple times in the 4th when the Hawks would go back up 6 or 8 and no timeout would be called, he needs to channel his inner Rick Carlisle A lot of people were disappointed with Danny Granger and impressed with Paul George.

Oh yeah, and other than the first 5 minutes of the game, the refs sucked. They got a lot of heat.


----------



## Gonzo

Here's a look at my view. Not bad for $25


----------



## Knick Killer

$25 for that isn't bad at all seeing how I have to pay $75 to sit in the last row of the upper deck for a Winnipeg Jets game lol


----------



## Ben

Team USA are playing Team GB over here in July I think, and I really want to go since we rarely get NBA players over here...£50 for a seat right at the top of the arena.

£50 = $78

Wish I lived in America now rather than in 6 or 7 years lol.


----------



## Knick Killer

****!


----------



## Gonzo

We played a good game. But some interesting decisions by coach and a few players: Vogel played Dahntay way too much in the 4th and got the Heat in bonus with ~10 mins left. Dahntay had a good game up until that point, but Paul George was playing good too, just in a little foul trouble. Secondly, Granger chucked a 3 when we did not need it and that led to Lebron drilling the 3 that eventually sent us to overtime. Lastly, why have the ball in Collison's hands that long at the end of the 4th? He was trying to get a play for someone else, but surely Vogel should have seen ahead and realized that Lebron's going to get the better of him with the size advantage. Paul George was open early in the play, and his penetration had been flawless all night.


----------



## doctordrizzay

Knick_Killer31 said:


> $25 for that isn't bad at all seeing how I have to pay $75 to sit in the last row of the upper deck for a Winnipeg Jets game lol


Yeah people will pay out the ass here in winnipeg though, its a hockey city, who would rather have the Jets resurrected than jesus LOL. My globe trotter tickets were 8$ haha


----------



## Knick Killer

doctordrizzay said:


> Yeah people will pay out the ass here in winnipeg though, its a hockey city, who would rather have the Jets resurrected than jesus LOL. My globe trotter tickets were 8$ haha


Your from Winnipeg too? I'm not the only one on the site? :laugh:


----------



## Ben

Impressed with Paul George last night. I only watched 1st 2 and a half quarters, but he was hitting some TOUGH shots, playing nice D, and his game seemed smooth as heck.


----------



## Gonzo

ßen said:


> Impressed with Paul George last night. I only watched 1st 2 and a half quarters, but he was hitting some TOUGH shots, playing nice D, and his game seemed smooth as heck.


Which is why Dahntay Jones should have been riding the bench. I don't give a **** about his energy or his flops, Paul George is a better basketball player.


----------



## Knick Killer

Dahntay's awful turnover and stupid foul at the end of the fourth cost us the game


----------



## Gonzo

> David West says what people are starting to think about the Pacers and their record this season. "We beat up on bad teams, but just can’t compete against the good teams. Games we’ve had against playoff caliber teams, we’ve lost to them. That’s the measure to where we are. We just have to be real about it."


no shit


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> no shit


Don't make me deal with reality.


----------



## Knick Killer

After the heartbreaking OT loss last night to Miami, I wasn't expecting our best tonight in Orlando. Still very stressful that we have struggled against the better teams in the East and we desperately need to change that if were going to make any noise in the playoffs.


----------



## Luke

So when's the timetable for this George kid? He's in his second year, right? I know he's shown flashes this year and from the little I've seen him I have been impressed. But I'm gonna go ahead and ask the people that actually watch the Pacers on a consistent basis, when do y'all think he's going to turn into "that guy"? If ever?


----------



## Gonzo

Luke said:


> So when's the timetable for this George kid? He's in his second year, right? I know he's shown flashes this year and from the little I've seen him I have been impressed. But I'm gonna go ahead and ask the people that actually watch the Pacers on a consistent basis, when do y'all think he's going to turn into "that guy"? If ever?


When he learns how to dribble better and the offense is built more around him. I expect next year will be a big year for him.


----------



## Gonzo

Pacers playing solid tonight against the Blazers. Haven't watched much, but David West has stepped it up. I like that guy.


----------



## R-Star

Yep. I was dead wrong about West. Even when we lose, he seems to be one of the guys who cares most. Glad to have him on board.


----------



## Knick Killer

Yeah I feel like a jackass for wanting us to pursue some of the other power forwards available at the time over him. He's been great for us on the court and off of it.


----------



## Knick Killer

Going into the 4th quarter of the Blazers game and we have 8 players with 8+ points in the game so far.


----------



## Gonzo

Lou Amundson is having the game of his life. 8/8 in the paint.


----------



## Gonzo

Knick_Killer31 said:


> Yeah I feel like a jackass for wanting us to pursue some of the other power forwards available at the time over him. He's been great for us on the court and off of it.


One of the better pickups last offseason.


----------



## Gonzo

Lou just got an MPV chant. He's our Scalibrine, if only we had a capacity crowd.


----------



## Knick Killer

Wow now I really feel bad for not watching this game. Amundson went 10/11 for 21 points and grabbed 8 boards. LOUsanity baby!


----------



## Gonzo

He was 10/10. Apparently the one miss was a mistake by the stat team.


----------



## Gonzo

Got ourselves a nationally televised game tonight... Time to step it up.


----------



## Knick Killer

I got the game on TV up here too. Should be a good one.


----------



## clownskull

Gonzo said:


> Lou just got an MPV chant. He's our Scalibrine, if only we had a capacity crowd.


lou is a much better athlete than scal.


----------



## Knick Killer

Great performance against Philly. We shot the ball very well and George Hill was a huge spark for us off the bench. Keep it goin Pacer Nation!


----------



## R-Star

ESPN says we might sign Oden? Really?


----------



## Pacers Fan

R-Star said:


> ESPN says we might sign Oden? Really?


Next season. He'd be the perfect backup to Hibbert. Or if he really comes back strong, I would have no problem with the new twin towers.


----------



## R-Star

Hes done. If we have extra cash just sitting around sure, lets try him for a year, but I honestly can't see the guy ever having an impact in the NBA.


----------



## Gonzo

Signing him to a cheap contract wouldn't be such a bad idea. Would also give the Pacers some more buzz around the state.


----------



## Gonzo

Pretty sure Barbosa is playing tonight, it will be interesting where fits in in the rotation.


----------



## Gonzo

> @MikeWells
> 
> Frank Vogel is changing the rotation. Leandro Barbosa is in as the backup shooting guard. George Hill is now the backup point guard. A.J. Price is the third point guard. Barbosa will make his Pacers debut against the Clippers tomorrow. "(Barbosa will play) anywhere between 15-20 minutes," Vogel said. "He picked up a lot of our basic offensive sets today pretty quickly. We’ll see how he’s going and we’ll adjust it when he’s out there."


...


----------



## R-Star

Well we cant get any more mediocre right now. Hopefully Barbosa helps.


----------



## Luke

Y'all are pretty good and that's the way it's going to stay unless Paul George develops into an allstar. Solid center, solid point guard, solid forwards, pretty much solid everything. But nothing spectaular. It looks like the Pacers will be a mediocre to good playoff team for years to come but never truly contend.

Granted, looking at the history of the franchise since the Malace, "pretty good" sounds pretty good at this point. Good for you guys.


----------



## Gonzo

Paul Goerge will probably develop into an all-star with some more time. If we want to get off this mediocre bandwagon, Danny Granger and Collison need to be shipped and we need a decent backup center.


----------



## Knick Killer

Luke said:


> Y'all are pretty good and that's the way it's going to stay unless Paul George develops into an allstar. Solid center, solid point guard, solid forwards, pretty much solid everything. But nothing spectaular. It looks like the Pacers will be a mediocre to good playoff team for years to come but never truly contend.
> 
> Granted, looking at the history of the franchise since the Malace, "pretty good" sounds pretty good at this point. Good for you guys.


Typical Lakers fan opinion on a small market team having success.


----------



## Ben

Where is he wrong?


----------



## Pacers Fan

I find it funny that a lot of Pacers fans and a few fans who've barely seen the team play this year are already hitting the "we'll be forever mediocre" panic button. Thinking about the last few years, being the Hawks of the next 5 seasons is a nice problem to have. Who knows, maybe the team really steps it up defensively and Hibbert/George/Granger is really the three-headed monster we need.

Even though Hansbrough has had a terrible year, I'm sure he'll bounce back. The only guy I see absolutely zero potential in is Darren Collison. Dude just does not play well without the ball in his hands, and he isn't that great with it, either. He's a timid-shooting, undersized PG with very little court vision and terrible defense. He has absolutely no future besides being a backup. There are tweaks to be made, but besides maybe ditching Collison and upgrading for a backup big and a backup swingman, the team we have is the way to go right now. We have all our first round draft picks, and who knows, maybe we'll strike gold.


----------



## Knick Killer

ßen said:


> Where is he wrong?


Pacers Fan basically summed it up but heres my thoughts too. Well saying we will always just be a mediocre to good playoff team isn't really fair to say at the moment. Our team is still very young and guys like Paul George, George Hill, Darren Collinson Roy Hibbert, Tyler Hansbrough etc. haven't even reached their full potential yet. Our cap situation looks really good right now as well and we still have all of our first round picks. Also saying were "pretty good" and that's good for us is kind of ignorant. All signs point to us going in the right direction and only getting better.


----------



## R-Star

If this is Barbosa for us off the bench, I ****ing love the guy already.


----------



## R-Star

And as far as people acting like the Pacers are first or second round cannon fodder in the playoffs, not only now but in the future, you're going to eat your words. Other than our starting PG, we don't have a weakness. And I for one think Collison is a lot better than he gets credit for. The core is still extremely young and I fully expect them to get better. It would not surprise me if George or Hibbert took the next step this year or next and become 2nd tier stars. We have a deep and talented enough team where 2 semi stars should be enough to make us a legit contender.

Right now our bench is just proving everything I'm saying. Hell, outside of 1 bone headed foul Amundson is even playing well.


----------



## R-Star

Nevermind. Amundson is the worst player in the NBA.


----------



## Luke

Knick_Killer31 said:


> Typical Lakers fan opinion on a small market team having success.


You're talking to the same Laker fan that is one of the biggest OKC supporters on the site, and who put aside his hatred of the Spurs to cheer my ass off for San Antonio in every finals they ever played in. I certainly don't have a problem with small market teams. Do I obviously prefer my hometown team? Duh. But there are other teams in the NBA that I enjoy watching.

Hell, I've probably posted in this thread more than any non Pacer fan on this site. I actually like what you guys have done over the last few days. I just don't see a title contender barring Paul George living up to his potential, which is a completely fair evaluation.


----------



## Knick Killer

Luke said:


> You're talking to the same Laker fan that is one of the biggest OKC supporters on the site, and who put aside his hatred of the Spurs to cheer my ass off for San Antonio in every finals they ever played in. I certainly don't have a problem with small market teams. Do I obviously prefer my hometown team? Duh. But there are other teams in the NBA that I enjoy watching.
> 
> Hell, I've probably posted in this thread more than any non Pacer fan on this site. I actually like what you guys have done over the last few days. I just don't see a title contender barring Paul George living up to his potential, which is a completely fair evaluation.


Alright well cross out "small market team". It's still a typical Lakers fan opinion that Pacers fans should be happy that we are apparently "mediocre" and thats as good as we'll ever get. I wouldn't use the word mediocre to describe us right now nevermind in 2-3 years but then again I actually watch Pacers games.


----------



## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> If this is Barbosa for us off the bench, I ****ing love the guy already.


Barbosa came out on fire and definitely proved he deserves a big role on the team off the bench. Hopefully he keeps it up as you can never have enough sparks off the bench.



R-Star said:


> Nevermind. Amundson is the worst player in the NBA.


**** you Amundson is the man


----------



## Luke

Knick_Killer31 said:


> Alright well cross out "small market team". It's still a typical Lakers fan opinion that Pacers fans should be happy that we are apparently "mediocre" and thats as good as we'll ever get. I wouldn't use the word mediocre to describe us right now nevermind in 2-3 years but then again I actually watch Pacers games.


You guys were terrible for like six years and now you're decent. You should be happy.

Like I said before, if PG pans out then you guys can go however far he will take out, but if he doesn't then you guys will be the equivilent of the Hawks over the past few years but not quite as stupid. Which isn't a terrible thing.

I don't see why you're getting worked up about this.


----------



## Knick Killer

Luke said:


> You guys were terrible for like six years and now you're decent. You should be happy.
> 
> Like I said before, if PG pans out then you guys can go however far he will take out, but if he doesn't then you guys will be the equivilent of the Hawks over the past few years but not quite as stupid. Which isn't a terrible thing.
> 
> I don't see why you're getting worked up about this.


We'll see after the season if you still think were just "decent".


----------



## Luke

I don't see what is going to sway my opinion; if y'all get a good seed then you'll probably make it to the second round and get beat by either the Heat or Bulls. Which sounds like a pretty fair scenario for a decent team.


----------



## Knick Killer

Anyways, great team win tonight against the Clippers. All ten Pacers that played scored and five of them scored in double digits. Not bad for just some "decent" team. We have a couple easy games coming up so hopefully we can get a nice winning streak going before the Miami game.


----------



## Gonzo

Good win. The game was pretty chippy, Paul and Griffin acting entitled to foul calls and any kind of physicality. I guess that's what Los Angeles does to you.

Also, not so sure about Barbosa. He looked like Dahntay Jones 2.0 out there, held the ball a bit too much at times.


----------



## R-Star

Knick_Killer31 said:


> **** you Amundson is the man


Did you see the game last night? The guys makes the stupidest fouls I've ever seen. On one play, he rushed up to half court when Paul was bringing the ball up the court and just rushed and threw his arms all over him. It was ridiculous. In what world could he ever guard Paul in the first place, let alone rush him at half court? 

I love his energy, and sometimes hes pretty solid out there. But too often hes making dumb fouls, throwing up airballs, and just looking like shit out there.


----------



## R-Star

Luke said:


> I don't see what is going to sway my opinion; if y'all get a good seed then you'll probably make it to the second round and get beat by either the Heat or Bulls. Which sounds like a pretty fair scenario for a decent team.


We gave the Bulls hell last year in the playoffs. I don't see us being a cake walk for any team in the league.


----------



## Luke

R-Star said:


> We gave the Bulls hell last year in the playoffs. I don't see us being a cake walk for any team in the league.


The Pacers did give the Bulls a good series last year, it was one of the more entertaining series of last postseason. But both of those teams improved and Indiana isn't on their level at this point.

Can you guys give any team in the East a fair series? Sure. But barring injury to one of the two superteams you guys will be bounced in the second round.

And for like the fourth time, that's not a bad thing. It's progress. My thing is that a tough second round out is this squad's peak unless Paul George becomes a legitiment all star. Which is a fair evaluation judging on what you guys have now and the level of competition that will likely be in the conference for years to come.


----------



## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> Did you see the game last night? The guys makes the stupidest fouls I've ever seen. On one play, he rushed up to half court when Paul was bringing the ball up the court and just rushed and threw his arms all over him. It was ridiculous. In what world could he ever guard Paul in the first place, let alone rush him at half court?
> 
> I love his energy, and sometimes hes pretty solid out there. But too often hes making dumb fouls, throwing up airballs, and just looking like shit out there.


I'm not disagreeing that Amundson is shit but he's our version of Scalabrine so I have to show him some love.


----------



## R-Star

I want a Kings era Scott Pollard. Or a Dale Davis type dude as my backup.


----------



## Knick Killer

WILD game in Washington tonight! Came back from a 20 point deficit at half to get the win.


----------



## R-Star

Only caught the second half, and it was amazing. I was going to come on here and say how Paul George needed to play with more confidence and take more shots, then he takes the second 3 off the rebound after he misses the first. No hesitation, he wanted that shot. Boom. We win the game.

Also, I hope people will cut Collison some slack for us since hes the biggest reason we won the game. That steal was epic.


----------



## Ben

The bounce by Nene was ****ing ridiculous, but great work by Collison to sneak in and get it. I watched the last 5 or 6 minutes of the game, some nice work. I was impressed by you going to Hibbert with about 1-2 mins left, and he hit a tough lefty hook. Love the team idea you guys have going on.


----------



## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> Only caught the second half, and it was amazing. I was going to come on here and say how Paul George needed to play with more confidence and take more shots, then he takes the second 3 off the rebound *after he misses the first. No hesitation, he wanted that shot. Boom. We win the game.
> *
> Also, I hope people will cut Collison some slack for us since hes the biggest reason we won the game. That steal was epic.


Yup thats what I love to see. I don't think many second year players would have the confidence to do that.


----------



## R-Star

We're done and Pheonix is on a run

_"Put in the second unit!"_ Frank Vogul


----------



## Knick Killer

Tough loss against the Suns tonight. Now time to watch the Hoosiers!


----------



## R-Star

It was close. Steve Nash is a killer.


----------



## Gonzo

George Hill went off last night. Why he doesn't start, I'm not sure.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> George Hill went off last night. Why he doesn't start, I'm not sure.


Yea, he made a very strong case. 

2-1 during that 3 games in 3 nights. Not bad.


----------



## Gonzo




----------



## clownskull

as far as lou goes- i think he is better than scalabrine ever was. lou has never really developed much of an offense and his shot can be very awkward at times but, he does give quality minutes playing D and hitting the glass.

beating miami tonight though- hell yeah!!


----------



## Gonzo

I don't mind Lou, but I think if we want to get out of the mediocre rut that we're going to be in, we need to upgrade him. He's just too mediocre on both sides of the ball, doesn't really excel at much except hustle (but he's no Jeff Foster).


----------



## Gonzo

Pretty good win tonight. We were clicking on all cylinders and it was surprising to see Collison playing so agressive for once.


----------



## Knick Killer

Great to finally get that first win against Miami especially after the heartbreaker we had against them last time. Hopefully we can get on a roll and maybe squeeze into the #3 spot in the East.


----------



## Gonzo

So you're telling me there's a chance....


----------



## R-Star

Looks correct to me.


----------



## ran495

*Pacers- Nets Loss*

Aww the pacers lost to the nets! what the hell happened Granger?? 

i'm starting to notice a trend that when George gets hot, Granger sux and vice versa. 

What you guys think?


----------



## TheAnswer

*Re: Pacers- Nets Loss*

Well I didn't catch the game, but the box says Granger only had 21 minutes, any particular reason?


----------



## ran495

*Re: Pacers- Nets Loss*

foul trouble... but bottom line was, he couldn't get his shots in...


----------



## Kidd

*Re: Pacers- Nets Loss*

Granger isn't that good.

And I hate it when the Nets win games, we need a top 3 pick.


----------



## ran495

*Re: Pacers- Nets Loss*

i honestly believe that we actually have a wealth of talent on the pacers roster, its just under-utilized. Granger also has that tendency to overcarry the ball when he feels that he has to carry the team.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Pacers- Nets Loss*

Didn't get to catch the game. Not happy with the loss.


----------



## Gonzo

*Re: Pacers- Nets Loss*

Granger is a streaky player plain and simple. He'll have hot halfs, cold halfs, great games, and then just terrible games. 

We still continue to play with another teams talent level, I thought we left that shit last year. Hello mediocrity.

Btw, this thread belongs in the daily discussion thread.


----------



## Knick Killer

Squeaked out a win tonight against Washington. 30-20 on the year after 50 games. Eh...


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Getting ready to play SA in a few minutes.

Going to be a very hard game to win tonight, especially in San Antonio, where the Spurs are 20-4, and currently on a 6 game win streak.

I don't think we'll get the W, hopefully we can compete, and come out of this Texas trip 1-1.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Paul George with his usual 2 quick fouls, and that's it for him for this qtr.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

I hate to say this so early in the game, but it looks like we're on our way to another ugly blowout loss.


----------



## Gonzo

Not a blowout and looks like our starters played well, but we fail to do anything again on the road. I love being mediocre.


----------



## Gonzo

Huge comeback for the Pacers tonight. Went on a 19-2 run in the 4th with Danny going off. 

Clinched a winning record at home for the 23rd consecutive season.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

WOW!!!...I just got home when the 4th. qtr. began, and saw that we were down by 15, and I thought for sure that this game was over, but it was not to be!

What a crazy game, and what perfect timing it was for me to see the biggest game of the year.

Granger, Barbosa, George, and especially Louuuu deserve a steak dinner on me!

GO PACERS!!!


----------



## R-Star

PaCeRhOLiC said:


> WOW!!!...I just got home when the 4th. qtr. began, and saw that we were down by 15, and I thought for sure that this game was over, but it was not to be!
> 
> What a crazy game, and what perfect timing it was for me to see the biggest game of the year.
> 
> Granger, Barbosa, George, and especially Louuuu deserve a steak dinner on me!
> 
> GO PACERS!!!


Didn't get to watch it, but happy to see we have another hard fought win. Those are the type of wins we need going into the playoffs.


----------



## Gonzo

Putting a whooping on the Wiz right now


----------



## R-Star

Yep. **** the Wizards.


----------



## Gonzo

We've played them a lot lately...


----------



## Gonzo




----------



## Basel

:laugh:


----------



## Knick Killer

8-3 since the Barbosa trade


----------



## Gonzo

Knick_Killer31 said:


> 8-3 since the Barbosa trade


We've also played the Wizards 3 times.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> We've also played the Wizards 3 times.


Crazy. I guess that's what you get with the condensed schedule.


----------



## Knick Killer

Gonzo said:


> We've also played the Wizards 3 times.


True but we've beaten the Clippers, Heat, Rockets and Knicks as well.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Good game coming up in about an hour against OKC...

Hopefully we don't let this one get away too early, since you know the Thunder are gonna come out strong after losing 2 in a row.

Gonna be a really tough game to win, but nothing is impossible.

GO PACERS!!!


----------



## Gonzo

Pacers playing good early.


----------



## Gonzo

Here's Danny Granger mocking Novak with the 'discount double check'... Apparently that pissed off a bunch of butt hurt Knicks fans.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Yes! We ended on an 12-2 run, and are leading 32-20...Great way to end the 1st. quarter, no please keep it up!


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Gonzo said:


> Here's Danny Granger mocking Novak with the 'discount double check'... Apparently that pissed off a bunch of butt hurt Knicks fans.



:lol::lol:...Epic!


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

56-41 Pacers at the half!

Hibbert is having a crazy game so fat, already has a double, double, and also has 5 blocks!

We're playing outstanding defense, and just seem hungry to get this W.

Just please keep it up!


----------



## R-Star

Killing it. Love the passion from Hibbert.


----------



## Gonzo

Pacers +27 with Paul George.

He has 13 boards, career high.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

No better way to bring more attendance than to have this type of game in front of a sold out crowd.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

PACERS WIN! PACERS WIN!!!

What a great game, although at the end it got a little too close for comfort, but our boys pulled it off.

Really proud of everyone out there, and I'm so glad that we got this win in front of our sold out crowd.

GO PACERS!!!


----------



## Knick Killer

Wow huge win, I wish I was home to watch. Definitely proving why were 3rd in the East.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

I'm going to pretend that the Celtics game yesterday never happened. 

Now let's get ready for Toronto.


----------



## R-Star

PaCeRhOLiC said:


> I'm going to pretend that the Celtics game yesterday never happened.
> 
> Now let's get ready for Toronto.


What a terrible game that ended up being. Just a poor showing on every level.


----------



## Knick Killer

The best part about us playing Toronto is I actually get it on TV up here.
:jericho:


----------



## R-Star

Knick_Killer31 said:


> The best part about us playing Toronto is I actually get it on TV up here.
> :jericho:


Yep. Big family dinner at my parents tomorrow and I'll be sitting on the couch watching the game.


----------



## RollWithEm

I feel like the Pacers/Magic first round match-up (if it comes to that) will be a 7-game series where 5 or 6 of the games are blowouts.


----------



## 29380

Any playoff series with the Magic in it is going to be 2009 Hawks/Heat series ugly.


----------



## Knick Killer

I don't care who we play first round. I just want the Bulls in Round 2 :funk:


----------



## Gonzo

Almost a sell out tonight.


----------



## RollWithEm

Knick_Killer31 said:


> I don't care who we play first round. I just want the Bulls in Round 2 :funk:


Slow ya roll there junior, gotta make it out of Round 1 first.


----------



## Gonzo

http://www.indycornrows.com/2012/4/...leveland-cavaliers-mascot-to-hospital-moondog



> During pregame introductions, West got into a mock fight with Moondog, the Cavs' floppy-eared mascot, who often interacts and teases opposing players. West accidentally struck the character in the mask, sending him to the hospital with an eye injury.
> 
> ''I feel terrible about that, I really do,'' said West, who was visibly upset. ''We were just having fun. We were just messing around. I really hope he's OK. Make sure he knows I'm sorry.''


That's how we won.


----------



## R-Star

A return to the pre malice bad boy Pacers. As long as no one beats up a fan, I like it.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

No wonder the Cavs played so inspired...

Poor pooch :laugh:


----------



## Knick Killer

:drake:


----------



## Knick Killer

We have won 6 of our last 7 games. Picking the right time to get hot


----------



## Gonzo

Thanks to an easy schedule from here on out


----------



## Knick Killer

Yup we play Philly two more times and Chicago once but the rest of the games are against non-playoff teams.


----------



## Knick Killer

Clinched a berth in the playoffs tonight with a win against the Cavaliers. That's cool I guess


----------



## Knick Killer

Dwight Howard out with no timetable to return with a herniated disc. If the playoffs started tomorrow we'd be playing Orlando so that's something to think about. Magic without D12 would be the worst team in the playoffs so if he can't get healthy for playoffs and the seedings stay the same, it looks like were off to Round 2.


----------



## 29380

I highly doubt the Magic keep the 6th seed you will probably get the 6ers or the Knicks.


----------



## R-Star

Am I starting to love Lou Amundson?


----------



## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> Am I starting to love Lou Amundson?


Yes


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Congrats to our boys for making it in, I mean we've been in a long time ago, but it's nice to know that it is now official.

Really proud of this team, and our coach as well, now it's time to shut the critics and make some noise in the tournament!

And yes, how could anyone not love Louuuuuuuu!


----------



## Knick Killer

Knicks4life said:


> I highly doubt the Magic keep the 6th seed you will probably get the 6ers or the Knicks.


Well Orlando is 3 games ahead of both of those teams with 7 games left so it's possible especially since they got Charlotte and Cleveland on the schedule.


----------



## Knick Killer

Happy Birthday Gonzo! :cheers:


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Oh, I'm sorry buddy...

Happy birthday G. and I hope you have a nice day, and a Pacers' win tonight! :clap:


----------



## Gonzo

Not really sure why Knick Killer is banned, April Fool's is over and I don't want to get my hopes up.


----------



## Ben

Doesn't want the temptation to come on the site when he has to revise.


----------



## Gonzo

Wolves without Love tonight... already looking like a blowout. 40-19


----------



## R-Star

Wow. Absolutely destroying the Wolves.


----------



## Gonzo

Frank Vogel might've called only one timeout all night. Go Pacers.


----------



## Gonzo

George Hill putback. Get up there young fella. Around the :14 mark


----------



## Gonzo

Pacers made it 6 straight tonight with a great finish down the stretch in Philly.


----------



## clownskull

pacers are turning it on. best april record in the league.


----------



## R-Star

Hottest team in the league right now. Good time to get some swagger.


----------



## Gonzo




----------



## Luke

I feel comfortable in saying that the Pacers will make the second round at this point.


----------



## R-Star

You would be correct in that assumption.


----------



## Knick Killer

Gonzo said:


> Not really sure why Knick Killer is banned, April Fool's is over and I don't want to get my hopes up.


Ouch...


----------



## Gonzo

Knick_Killer31 said:


> Ouch...


unk:


----------



## Gonzo

Pacers are #2 in the league at 20.5 free throws made per game, only behind OKC. Who would've thought that last year? I remember when we couldn't get to the line at all while Derrick Rose got there every other trip down the floor during the first round of the playoffs.


----------



## Gonzo

George Hill is a stud. I like him as a starter, he plays with confidence. 

Dunleavy just got boo's.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> George Hill is a stud. I like him as a starter, he plays with confidence.
> 
> Dunleavy just got boo's.


And he loves playing in Indiana. Hope we keep him.


----------



## Knick Killer

Absolutely love George Hill and everything he brings to the table. That trade worked out good for the Spurs too though. I've heard nothing but great things about Kawhi Leonard.


----------



## Gonzo

Bucks want to fight.


----------



## Knick Killer

Some bad blood between the two teams tonight. Hansbrough and Dunleavy had some problems and Larry Sanders just went crazy and had to be restrained.


----------



## Gonzo

We just scored home court, which means non sellout playoff games.


----------



## Gonzo

Oh yeah and David West had 21, 14 reb, and 7 ast. Granted he didn't go up against a sizable PF, but still good numbers from that fella.


----------



## Knick Killer

Gonzo said:


> We just scored home court, which means non sellout playoff games.


You really don't think the playoff games will sell out?


----------



## RollWithEm

So how do you guys feel about Dwight being out for the first round?


----------



## Gonzo

Knick_Killer31 said:


> You really don't think the playoff games will sell out?


Who knows. People in Indiana don't even know that the Pacers are good again.


----------



## Gonzo

RollWithEm said:


> So how do you guys feel about Dwight being out for the first round?


Good but I still think we could have beaten them with Dwight. What are the chances the Magic give up the 6th seed though?


----------



## RollWithEm

Gonzo said:


> Good but I still think we could have beaten them with Dwight. What are the chances the Magic give up the 6th seed though?


They would have to lose out (they play the Bobcats once) and the Knicks would have to win out. In other words, they are locked in to 6 unless they somehow win some games while Atlanta tanks.


----------



## Gonzo

While I don't mind Dwight being out, Pacers aren't going to get any credit for making the second round. Gonna have to make some noise in the Semis to attract any attention.


----------



## RollWithEm

Gonzo said:


> While I don't mind Dwight being out, Pacers aren't going to get any credit for making the second round. Gonna have to make some noise in the Semis to attract any attention.


Hibbert, specifically, needs to dominated that first round series and really put his mark on these playoffs.


----------



## Knick Killer

Gonzo said:


> While I don't mind Dwight being out, Pacers aren't going to get any credit for making the second round. Gonna have to make some noise in the Semis to attract any attention.


Were the hottest team in the league right now and we still get no attention.


----------



## RollWithEm

Knick_Killer31 said:


> Were the hottest team in the league right now and we still get no attention.


Pacers won't start getting attention until they push Miami or Chicago to game 6 in the second round.


----------



## Gonzo




----------



## Knick Killer

> Indiana Pacers forwards Danny Granger and David West have been fined $25,000 each for their parts in an incident with Milwaukee Bucks center Larry Sanders in the fourth quarter of Thursday's game, the NBA announced today.
> 
> Sanders was suspended for two games without pay.
> 
> Granger and West were fined for "instigating and adding to the escalation of an on-court incident."
> 
> Sanders was suspended the two games without pay for "initiating an altercation, failing to leave the court in a timely manner and actions following his ejection."
> 
> Sanders started having words with George Hill when West came to his teammate's defense. Sanders acted like he was going to go after West, but never got close. Granger also exchanged words with Sanders.


http://www.indystar.com/article/20120420/SPORTS04/204200370/NBA-fines-Granger-West-suspends-Milwaukee-s-Sanders?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Sports|p

$25,000? Damn happy birthday to Danny Granger


----------



## Pacers Fan

I never want to trade Danny Granger.


----------



## Gonzo

Pacers Fan said:


> I never want to trade Danny Granger.


Me either. He's already like 10th all time scoring for the Pacers and easily has a chance to be 2nd in the next couple seasons. I'd like to see him be our Paul Pierce.


----------



## Knick Killer

If you told me at the beginning of the season that we would finish 3rd in the East I would be one happy man. I'll be 100% satisfied for the year if we go to Round 2 and take Miami to at least 6 hard fought games.


----------



## RollWithEm

Does anyone in this thread have a link to Eric Gordon hinting at or directly indicating that he would be interested in coming to the Pacers this offseason?


----------



## R-Star

RollWithEm said:


> Does anyone in this thread have a link to Eric Gordon hinting at or directly indicating that he would be interested in coming to the Pacers this offseason?


http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2012/02/eric-gordon-interested-in-joining-the-indiana-pacers/

http://www.atthehive.com/2012/1/20/2721971/espn-indiana-pacers-interested-in-trading-for-eric-gordon

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ust-sign-eric-gordon-to-win-2013-championship

To save you some time, Gordon never comes out and says anything. Its pure speculation. For some reason I remembered Gordon hinting he'd like to come, but I can't find it anywhere.


----------



## Luke

You guys should get Eric Gordon.

And I'm glad that Pacers fans have finally accepted Danny Granger for what he is. I remember he had a lot of hype coming up and then he had a couple rough years and most of y'all kinda disliked him for a mintue. Good to him producing and leading a winning team.


----------



## RollWithEm

Will they offer him the max, though?


----------



## R-Star

RollWithEm said:


> Will they offer him the max, though?


Don't think we'll be able to with Hibbert being resigned and hopefully us resigning Hill this offseason.

We'll see. I'd like to get him by any means necessary without gutting the team. You upgrade the SG spot with Gordon and now you have Paul George coming off the bench? That's deep. Real deep. You'd have to lose Barbosa, which sucks because I've loved the guy so far, but to get Eric Gordon its a no brainer.


----------



## R-Star

Luke said:


> You guys should get Eric Gordon.
> 
> And I'm glad that Pacers fans have finally accepted Danny Granger for what he is. I remember he had a lot of hype coming up and then he had a couple rough years and most of y'all kinda disliked him for a mintue. Good to him producing and leading a winning team.


I'm loving him right now. Then again I'm loving the whole team since we're killing everyone right now. I even love Lou Amundson. Its just wrong.


----------



## RollWithEm

I always had a soft spot for Lou Amundson. It's not explainable.


----------



## Gonzo

Luke said:


> You guys should get Eric Gordon.


No thank you. I don't want that injury prone thing walking around on our team getting paid too much to wear a suit.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> No thank you. I don't want that injury prone thing walking around on our team getting paid too much to wear a suit.


We'll see. Some guys who are injury prone early in their career turn it around. I worry more about big men who have knee or ankle issues than 2 guards who just get random injuries.


----------



## Luke

Where do you guys think Hibbert's ceiling is? He's a pretty well rounded big but lacks that one trait that could make him beocme a dominant player instead of a fringe allstar. His size could be pretty huge in future matchups between y'all and Miami/Chicago


----------



## R-Star

Luke said:


> Where do you guys think Hibbert's ceiling is? He's a pretty well rounded big but lacks that one trait that could make him beocme a dominant player instead of a fringe allstar. His size could be pretty huge in future matchups between y'all and Miami/Chicago


Perennial allstar in the East is the ceiling I think. He isn't the type of big who is going to get 23-25 every night, but he's improving and I could see him being a 20/10 guy in the future if everything pans out. I'm not expecting it though.


----------



## Gonzo

I still think we need a real starting PG rather than another two guard.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> I still think we need a real starting PG rather than another two guard.


Not many around though. Collison or Hill are better than average in my books. But I agree having a 8-10 apg PG would be quite nice.


----------



## Knick Killer

I love Eric Gordon but like Gonzo said, an upgrade at point guard would be more ideal. Either way, I'd welcome Gordon to the Pacers no problem.


----------



## Luke

R-Star said:


> Perennial allstar in the East is the ceiling I think. He isn't the type of big who is going to get 23-25 every night, but he's improving and I could see him being a 20/10 guy in the future if everything pans out. I'm not expecting it though.


As long as Anthony Davis doesn't end up in the conference I could buy that he'll be Dwight's perennial backup. I *definitely* don't see him ever being a consistent 20+ scorer though, he's already in his fourth year and he's only averaging 13 a game. Part of that is on him and part of that is because you guys play team ball where anyone can lead the show on any given night.

Judging based on what I've seen, I think 18/10/2 with over 2 blocks a game seems reasonable.

Anybody else's opinions are welcome.


----------



## Luke

Oh, and George Hill has always been a good player. I'm happy that he ended up in a system that he could excel in.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Roy Hibbert - I think he'll be a solid 15/10/2 for a while, maybe peaking around 17/12/3. I'm not sure he'll be a perennial all-star with Horford in the conference, but we'll see.

George Hill - Love him, but he should be a 6th man of the year candidate as opposed to a starter. This team needs a real PG, and I hope we look at Steve Nash this off season.

Eric Gordon - He'd be a great addition, but at the expense of Hill and Barbosa. Plus, it'd be very difficult to give him, Granger, and George all the minutes they need considering Eric's not going to play PG.


----------



## Knick Killer

Pacers Fan said:


> Roy Hibbert - I think he'll be a solid 15/10/2 for a while, maybe peaking around 17/12/3. I'm not sure he'll be a perennial all-star with Horford in the conference, but we'll see.
> 
> George Hill - Love him, but he should be a 6th man of the year candidate as opposed to a starter. This team needs a real PG, and *I hope we look at Steve Nash this off season*.
> 
> Eric Gordon - He'd be a great addition, but at the expense of Hill and Barbosa. Plus, it'd be very difficult to give him, Granger, and George all the minutes they need considering Eric's not going to play PG.


We need to make some noise in the playoffs this year for Steve Nash to even give us a look. He would be the perfect addition to the team though and would bring out the best of everyone on the floor.


----------



## Gonzo

Luke said:


> As long as Anthony Davis doesn't end up in the conference I could buy that he'll be Dwight's perennial backup. I *definitely* don't see him ever being a consistent 20+ scorer though, he's already in his fourth year and he's only averaging 13 a game. Part of that is on him and part of that is because you guys play team ball where anyone can lead the show on any given night.
> 
> Judging based on what I've seen, I think 18/10/2 with over 2 blocks a game seems reasonable.
> 
> Anybody else's opinions are welcome.


Roy is not in a system that allows him 20+ a night.


----------



## RollWithEm

Nash would be a one or two year addition. Gordon could be part of the core in Indy for many years to come.


----------



## Gonzo

RollWithEm said:


> Gordon could be part of the core in Indy for many years to come.


And would ensure that we would lose Paul George.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> And would ensure that we would lose Paul George.


They'd have to make sure he's ok being 6th man prior. If Harden can do it, he should be able to.

If it meant losing George, I wouldn't do it either.


----------



## Gonzo

Lance Stephenson has enjoyed his first start. Dude is hot, and he's got cramps. Guess he hasn't played this much before.


----------



## R-Star

Pretty sure we need to make a play for Gordon or Nash/Williams.

I love Paul George, and I know its only his second year, but hes just not a reliable scorer come playoff time. This team either needs a go to guy, or a premier set up man to get the ball to our players in crunch time.


----------



## Knick Killer

George really frustrated me at times this series. He's only in his second year so I can't be too hard on him but your right R-Star. We got a solid group of guys right now but we are still missing an important piece. If we re-sign Hibbert and Hill, will we have any cap room left over to sign someone like Gordon or Nash?


----------



## R-Star

Knick_Killer31 said:


> George really frustrated me at times this series. He's only in his second year so I can't be too hard on him but your right R-Star. We got a solid group of guys right now but we are still missing an important piece. If we re-sign Hibbert and Hill, will we have any cap room left over to sign someone like Gordon or Nash?


That's what I'm not sure about. Gordons going to want around 15 mil, I assume we won't have the money for that. I'd love Nash to for some reason take a discount, but its not going to happen.

Maxing out Hibbert is going to hurt, but we don't have much choice.


----------



## Gonzo

Knick_Killer31 said:


> George really frustrated me at times this series. He's only in his second year so I can't be too hard on him but your right R-Star. We got a solid group of guys right now but we are still missing an important piece. If we re-sign Hibbert and Hill, will we have any cap room left over to sign someone like Gordon or Nash?


I wouldn't be surprised if we let him walk unless he wants to take a pay cut, we can't afford to pay him 7.5 mil if we're maxing out Hibbert and trying to sign a decent point guard. I would love for him to play backup shooting guard to Paul George and just have Collison back up whoever is starting point, but that's probably not likely.

Gordon's a good player but I'm worried too much about his injuries to offer him a lot of money, we'd be better off with Nash or Williams and they fill our need for a point guard.


----------



## Gonzo

http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.com/2012/05/and-thats-it/



> Seasons end, and for all but one playoff team each year, they end with a loss. Tonight, it was the Pacers’ turn.
> 
> While there were many things the Pacers could have done better, and many opportunities they missed, the basic reality is that the Heat were just better. Specifically, LeBron James and Dwyane Wade were just better. For Miami to win this series, those two players had to deliver nothing short of greatness.
> 
> And deliver it they did.
> 
> The bastards.
> 
> I was in the Pacer locker room after the game. It was a subdued, quiet place. George Hill sat leaning back in his chair looking at the ceiling. Paul George was hunched over, chin in hand, engaged in his normal postgame ritual of reading the stat sheet. Danny Granger sat patiently, but quietly answering questions for a procession of reporters – each waiting on queue to ask him the same thing in a slightly different way.
> 
> Then there was David West.
> 
> West was scheduled to be the Pacer player coming to the table in the interview room, so he wasn’t – strictly speaking – available for questions in the locker room. As people moved around him, West was million miles away. Or, more accurately, he was a few hundred feet away and in a different time. In his thousand yard stare, you could almost see the flicker as he replayed the game in his mind. Each missed shot. Each turnover. Every Dwyane Wade bucket – each one more ridiculous than the last.
> 
> Later, he would talk about the game in hushed, thoughtful tones. He would talk about the future, and this as a good learning experience for the younger guys, and the fact that the Pacers need to dedicate themselves to getting past this point next season. He would sum it up by saying, “It just wasn’t our time,” but not without betraying his underlying belief that it could have, perhaps even should have been.
> 
> But, sitting in the locker room, he was just a man trying to get a hold of his pain and disappointment. In that way, and in that moment, David West was exactly like many, many Pacer fans. He was like me.
> 
> *For as much as tonight hurts, I can’t help but smile. It has been a very long time since the end of the Pacer season arrived with regret, instead of relief. It is a familiar pain…a welcome pain. It’s the kind of pain you can only feel when your team matters to you again.*
> 
> I wandered around the locker room, picking up snippets of audio from different players, but nothing extensive. I had plenty of opportunities to ask questions, but none came to me. So, I drifted around, hoping for some divine inspiration, until I noticed that Pacer P.R. Director David Benner had briefly abandoned his guard post around West.
> 
> After glancing around, I slipped over to West’s locker, and told him I had no questions. I only wanted to thank him for how helpful he’d been to me as a writer during my first season with credentials, and how much I’d enjoyed watching him play.
> 
> How much I’d enjoyed watching them play.
> 
> The analysis of what happened, and where Indiana goes from here will come in due time with due diligence. It is not coming tonight.
> 
> Tonight, I only have the pain that feels like a long lost old friend. And while that makes me sad, it also makes me happy … if that makes any sense at all.


----------



## Gonzo

Thought I'd bump this for the upcoming season.


----------



## R-Star

Good call. Makes more sense than us posting in the offseason thread.


----------



## Porn Player

:laugh:

It's hard not to like Hibbert.


----------



## Gonzo

Gerald Green has had a highlight dunk in ever preseason game so far this year. I know it's preseason, but it's going to be a fun year. Dare I say he's a better in game dunker than Paul George?


----------



## clownskull

whether green or george is the better dunker- i don't really care. as long as both can help the team win more games and get us closer to a championship is what gets me thinking.
and i think getting green is going to help us from the bench big time.
when he first came into the league, he was little more than a highlight kind of guy. he has since developed an actual game and can score for us since it was really our bench that struggled in the playoffs.
getting a guy with true center size like mahinmi who can also help at the 4 spot and give us a twin tower lineup with big roy for some tough interior defense will be nice too.
we have made some needed improvements in regards to our bench and that is nice to see.


----------



## R-Star

clownskull said:


> whether green or george is the better dunker- i don't really care. as long as both can help the team win more games and get us closer to a championship is what gets me thinking.
> and i think getting green is going to help us from the bench big time.
> when he first came into the league, he was little more than a highlight kind of guy. he has since developed an actual game and can score for us since it was really our bench that struggled in the playoffs.
> getting a guy with true center size like mahinmi who can also help at the 4 spot and give us a twin tower lineup with big roy for some tough interior defense will be nice too.
> we have made some needed improvements in regards to our bench and that is nice to see.


Agreed. I still don't love the Collison for Mahinmi trade, but we desperately needed a quality backup big, and getting DJ helped soften the blow of losing Collison.


We're a stronger team this year. I'm excited to see what this team can do.


----------



## Gonzo

Mahinmi >>>>>> Amundson. Mahinmi will help us out a lot more than Collison ever did.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> Mahinmi >>>>>> Amundson. Mahinmi will help us out a lot more than Collison ever did.


I'm still going to miss Collison a lot, but I have to agree. 

I used to lose my mind whenever they'd sub in Amundson and Hansbrough together. It happened all the time in the playoffs and you could just watch our lead turn into a deficit every time. 


****ing Vogel.


----------



## Gonzo

Honestly that's about all Vogel could do, it's not like he's going to play Pendergraph. 

Hansbrough/Mahinmi is a huge upgrade, and Mahinmi/Hibbert will be fun to watch.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> Honestly that's about all Vogel could do, it's not like he's going to play Pendergraph.
> 
> Hansbrough/Mahinmi is a huge upgrade, and Mahinmi/Hibbert will be fun to watch.


He sat Hibbert and to a lesser extent West way too much in the playoffs though. He kept his rotation minutes going like it was the regular season.

I like Vogel, but he's still got a lot to learn.


----------



## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> He sat Hibbert and to a lesser extent West way too much in the playoffs though. He kept his rotation minutes going like it was the regular season.
> 
> I like Vogel, but he's still got a lot to learn.


Yeah his rotations really pissed me off, but I'm not really sure of Hibbert's long term endurance. 

West was definitely not in game shape most of last season, but with a full offseason to dedicate to something other than rehabbing his knee, I'm sure he's a lot more in shape coming into this season.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> Yeah his rotations really pissed me off, but I'm not really sure of Hibbert's long term endurance.
> 
> West was definitely not in game shape most of last season, but with a full offseason to dedicate to something other than rehabbing his knee, I'm sure he's a lot more in shape coming into this season.


Hibbert cut down a lot on weight so I just don't get it. I started watching in the playoffs to see if he was pouring sweat, breathing heavy, or hunched over with his hands on his knees or anything like that and never saw it.


I mean to me, its the playoffs. You don't rest your allstar big in the playoffs, you ride him into the ground. He'll have an offseason to catch his breath.


Guess its not something I'll have to get so angry about this year since I wont see a pony tail coming off the bench anytime Hibbert needs a break.


----------



## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> Guess its not something I'll have to get so angry about this year since I wont see a pony tail coming off the bench anytime Hibbert needs a break.


Cheers. That might be the thing we have to look forward to most this season. Have fun Minnesota.


----------



## Knick Killer

**** you guys, I'm going to really miss Loooooou!

But in all seriousness, Mahinmi is one of the most underrated acquisitions this offseason. We desperately needed a true backup center. And personally, I had no problem losing Collison. Loved that he was a UCLA guy, but he gave me a lot of headaches.


----------



## clownskull

what bugged me most about vogel and the substitution patterns was how he would rest all the starters and go all bench. our starters actually outscored miami's. it was when the all-bench lineup came in where we would see our 9-12 point leads quickly disappear and in like 4 minutes that lead was now a deficit.
thing is- he didn't seem to figure this out. he kept trying this routine even though it was quickly proven not to work well. hopefully he made note of mistakes like that and we ease the rotations more gradually this time.


----------



## Gonzo

> Mike Wells ‏@MikeWellsNBA
> I'm not sold Granger will play the entire season after this quote “(The knee) is testing me." (Cont)
> 
> Mike Wells ‏@MikeWellsNBA
> More Granger: "They’re telling me the pain can’t do anything else to my knee. I’m going to have to play through the pain, but it hurts.”


I like Granger, but it's looking like we probably should have gotten rid of him at some time. Sounds like its an injury that won't go away with rest..... Now we're stuck with a #1 option with a bum knee.


----------



## Knick Killer

What could have we gotten for Granger that would keep us as a Top 3 team in the East? For years people have wanted us to get rid of him but at the end of the day, we wouldn't of gotten anything of equal value.


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> What could have we gotten for Granger that would keep us as a Top 3 team in the East? For years people have wanted us to get rid of him but at the end of the day, we wouldn't of gotten anything of equal value.


Agreed. I don't think we would have ever got anything that would have been more than a lateral move for us.

Realistically we would have needed to trade him for 3 or a 2 and move George to the 3. Either way no ones giving up a step up from Granger in that deal.


----------



## Gonzo

> @MikeWellsNBA
> Pacers are keeping guard Ben Hansbrough on a non-guaranteed contract.
> Sam Young was a front runner to stick around. It became a no brainer after watching Granger (knee) look uncomfortable at times vs Chicago


Might be good for Psycho-T to have his brother on the team, dude seems like a loner.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Yeh, but it seems like Ben is going to spending most of his time in Fort Wayne when George Hill is healthy. I definitely don't mind having Ben on the roster. It should keep Tyler in good spirits, and Ben had a solid game in the preseason. I might've rather had Sundiata Gaines, but I'm glad we're at least keeping a 15th player.


----------



## R-Star

Ben Hansbrough sucks. Unless Tyler starts playing like he did in 2010-2011, I don' want to spend too much time wasting a roster spot on a guy who probably shouldn't be in the NBA.


----------



## Gonzo

In case you guys missed this...


----------



## Gonzo

Danny Granger out indefinitely according to Pacers Facebook page.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> Danny Granger out indefinitely according to Pacers Facebook page.


Just saw. **** this shit. So we move George to the 3 and start Green at the 2?


**** me....


----------



## Porn Player

We're going to **** you up hombre.


----------



## R-Star

Not a chance. Going to be a steamroll tomorrow, bro.


----------



## Porn Player

Take this Hansbrough


----------



## R-Star

Answered.










You can't phase Hansbrough, bro. Hes Hanstastic.


----------



## Porn Player

Consider that bricked jumper Hanswered


----------



## R-Star

Who's that guy? Why's he kicking Tyler in the face? Look at his friends? The one guys all "Noooo! Tyler!" and the other dude is like "I didn't do it officer."


----------



## Porn Player

White guy goes down at the scene of a crime, a brother automatically puts up his hands. 

The crime in this case, Ben Hansbrough attempting to play basketball.


----------



## R-Star

Oh, that's Ben? Who ****ing cares. I'd kick him in the face too. 


That guy should not be on an NBA roster.


----------



## Porn Player

He's got the green light at SG in the starting line up. I think George is moving up to SF or something of that ilk. 

Link to article


----------



## R-Star

Like **** he is.


----------



## Pacers Fan

R-Star said:


> Just saw. **** this shit. So we move George to the 3 and start Green at the 2?
> 
> 
> **** me....


I would assume so, or vice versa, especially because a Hill/Augustin backcourt might have some trouble against the size of DeRozan or Fields.


----------



## R-Star

Jokes on me.....


----------



## Porn Player

Classic.


----------



## R-Star

Pacers Fan said:


> I would assume so, or vice versa, especially because a Hill/Augustin backcourt might have some trouble against the size of DeRozan or Fields.


I like George at the 3, I think it suits his game better. But I also liked the idea of Green off the bench. And if Hill/Augustin both start, that leaves some shitty options for point guard off the bench.

If Granger is out for a long time (and it sounds like he is), we're going to have to make a trade.


----------



## Porn Player

Linas Kleiza + Jose Calderon for Paul George.


----------



## R-Star

Ben Hansbrough + Jeff Pendergraph for Derozan.


----------



## Porn Player

Stop it. I'm trying white-out the Pacers, don't send any of them back.


----------



## Gonzo

I just hope that Sam Young doesn't start.


----------



## clownskull

well, i don't have any idea who starts in place of danny and i actually don't care. we got enough depth at the 2-3 spots that i think we can still win tomorrow.
getting green and mahinmi is going to pay off.
this is also an opportunity for other guys to pick up the slack. i figure lance will get more of an opportunity to show he belongs as he can play some time at either pg or sg.
i just hope this knee issue of danny's get healed up soon.


----------



## R-Star

Gordon is the newest guy who's out indefinitely. Glad we didn't make a serious push for him.


I wonder if hes really that hurt, or just crying because he didn't get his trade.


----------



## RollWithEm

R-Star said:


> I wonder if hes really that hurt, or just crying because he didn't get his trade.


Hmmm...


----------



## RollWithEm

I would imagine Lance would get a shot to start at the 2-spot with George moving down to the 3 tonight.


----------



## R-Star

I hope not. I hate Lance.

Then again it would be nice to keep Green coming off the bench with that athletic scoring punch.


----------



## Porn Player

Who cares? You're getting dominated by the White Towers of Mordor this evening.


----------



## R-Star

Who knows if that pussy Bargnani is even going to play. Maybe his tummy hurts from eating too much Primo pasta.


----------



## Porn Player

Ha! He's ready to prance around your slow footed fat man and rain threes upon this league


----------



## R-Star

Hibbert will eat him for lunch.


----------



## Porn Player

Unfortunately for plank foot, we have the other half of the White Towers ready to confiscate his lunch pass.


----------



## R-Star

Unfortunately for both your white bigs, we have West and the Man Himi to take care of them as well.


----------



## Porn Player

I do like your rotational bigs. Tonight has the onions to be one hell of a game.


----------



## R-Star

Turnips.


----------



## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> Who knows if that pussy Bargnani is even going to play. Maybe his tummy hurts from eating too much Primo pasta.


Ha. Now there's a joke only a fellow canadian could understand.


----------



## Gonzo

This Toronto crowd is loud.


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> Ha. Now there's a joke only a fellow canadian could understand.


Figured you'd get it.


----------



## R-Star

Paul George taking the initiative and taking the game over. I like it.


----------



## clownskull

R-Star said:


> Paul George taking the initiative and taking the game over. I like it.


yep. with no danny, he understood he is going to have to assume greater responsibility of the scoring load.
and a nice swat by mahinmi


----------



## Knick Killer

Gonzo said:


> This Toronto crowd is loud.


WHEN the Air Canada Centre is actually sold out, they can be just as loud as any arena in the NBA.

Not impressed with our performance so far. Paul George looks good but none of the new guys have really stood out.


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> WHEN the Air Canada Centre is actually sold out, they can be just as loud as any arena in the NBA.
> 
> Not impressed with our performance so far. Paul George looks good but none of the new guys have really stood out.


Once again our lead is turning into a deficit since Frankie benched West and Hibbert.


Stop watch.


----------



## Knick Killer

The Raptors fan in me is very pleased with how they look so far, especially Kyle Lowry.

The Pacers fan in me is not very pleased. We've been quite sloppy on offense for majority of the game. Paul George looks fantastic though.


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> The Raptors fan in me is very pleased with how they look so far, especially Kyle Lowry.
> 
> The Pacers fan in me is not very pleased. We've been quite sloppy on offense for majority of the game. Paul George looks fantastic though.


Hibberts been pretty solid too. Not much to like outside of those two though so far.


----------



## Gonzo

Knick Killer said:


> The Raptors fan in me is very pleased with how they look so far, especially Kyle Lowry.
> 
> The Pacers fan in me is not very pleased. We've been quite sloppy on offense for majority of the game. Paul George looks fantastic though.


Eh, George Hill didn't play at all during the preseason.


----------



## Knick Killer

Tyler Hansbrough still looks like Tyler Hansbrough.


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> Tyler Hansbrough still looks like Tyler Hansbrough.


Same as always. Get a nice rebound in the paint, then try some throw it wildly in the air move to try to draw the foul.


Predictable old Tyler.


----------



## Knick Killer

Great block by Gerald Green to end the half. He gets up so high that it automatically looks like a goaltend.


----------



## Pacers Fan

I forgot that missing Pacers games is the part I miss most about being back in the dorms. IU Cable doesn't get FSI (among other channels), NBALP blocks me from all locally televised games, and I don't want to go to the bars on a weeknight. I think our first nationally televised game is in January. Hope I can catch a few games before then.


----------



## Pacers Fan

I forgot that missing Pacers games is the part I miss most about being back in the dorms. IU Cable doesn't get FSI (among other channels), NBALP blocks me from all locally televised games, and I don't want to go to the bars on a weeknight. I think our first nationally televised game is in January. Hope I can catch a few games before then.


----------



## Gonzo

There are streams online.


----------



## Knick Killer

Stuck at work so I'm watching the game on my iPhone. Not ideal, but I'll take it.


----------



## Basel

Knick Killer said:


> Stuck at work so I'm watching the game on my iPhone. Not ideal, but I'll take it.


What app?


----------



## Gonzo

David West is a bad man


----------



## Pacers Fan

Wow, I thought this one was over. Looks like West is having a solid scoring game, although he only has 2 boards. And Hill just scored for hopefully the win. 

How has Lance looked tonight?


----------



## Gonzo

Lance looked sloppy as usual.


----------



## R-Star

Good first win. Nice to see solid all around play from George.


----------



## Knick Killer

Basel said:


> What app?


NBA Game time.

Well George Hill hit the game winner, but we can thank David West for winning us that one. He was a monster in the 4th quarter.


----------



## Gonzo

We're not looking like a second/third seed team so far... Granger must be hurting us more than we thought. So much for the whole normal length training camp and preseason, our offense is ****ing terrible.


----------



## R-Star

Terrible loss today.


Just ****ing terrible. The Bobcats?


I thought we had it in the end and we had about 2 or 3 tough calls in a row that I didn't really agree with. After that it was too late.


----------



## Gonzo

Stephenson probably had his best game as a pro, that's about the only highlight of the night. He should have been in the game instead of Augustin there in the end, but oh well. I'm gonna go on a limb and say that we could really use Danny. I'll admit I was wrong thinking that him being out wouldn't really pose that much of a problem.


----------



## Gonzo

Just noticed that Hibbert was 3/4 from the field. 4 ****ing field goal attempts for a former all-star center... against the Bobcats.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Well, that's depressing.


----------



## 29380

Pacers Fan said:


> Well, that's depressing.












Losing to the Bobcats sucks.


----------



## Knick Killer

Danny Granger is a valuable piece to the puzzle. As Gonzo said, we definitely don't look like a threat in the East at all right now. Luckily there's 80 games left.


----------



## Gonzo

Our passing is awful


----------



## R-Star

Paul George is rebounding like a monster.



.... that's one plus to take from our recent play.


----------



## Pacers Fan

I managed to catch the last 5 minutes of regulation and both overtimes at a bar across the street from a play I went to last night. What a frustrating game that was. It seemed like we had no idea how to execute. Anything going through West or Hibbert just went horribly wrong aside from West's floater, which still wasn't a good shot. George Hill seemed pretty healthy and made two good plays down the stretch, but the Kings defense really bothered him. Paul George had an excellent step-back jumper to seal the game, and really hit the boards hard. I'm also glad we had Lance Stephenson in there down the stretch. It's always nice having two playmakers in the game, and although his defense is still really bad, he tries. His jump shot looks entirely different and he looks like he's slimmed down some. You can tell he's less of a freight train now and that he believes every jump shot he takes will go in.


----------



## R-Star

I don't like Lance at all, but I can't really get mad when he's out there. We just aren't as deep as I thought we were now that Granger is out.


----------



## Gonzo

I think Lance is going to learn a lot this year, hopefully he improves his passing decisions.


----------



## Knick Killer

I didn't catch the crazy game against the Kings but I don't get how Roy Hibbert can only have 12 points and 10 rebounds in a double OT game. That's not an all-star performance. 


Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Gonzo

Knick Killer said:


> I didn't catch the crazy game against the Kings but I don't get how Roy Hibbert can only have 12 points and 10 rebounds in a double OT game. That's not an all-star performance.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


Cousins gave him trouble all night, and they doubled him a lot. Hibbert is just too slow.


----------



## Gonzo

I'm really getting sick of Vogel's offense. 

And we need role players, not a bunch of mediocre guys that don't stand out. Oh and Hibbert is getting embarrassed by Duncan, we'll see how this max contract pans out.


----------



## Knick Killer

Roy Hibbert would look really good in black and red right now.


----------



## Luke

So y'all's best player is out and you guys are surprised that the team doesn't look as good as they did last year? Huh?

The Pacers are a sum greater than their parts, but when the biggest part is missing there's obviously going to be a dropoff. Once Granger comes back everything will be fine.


----------



## Porn Player

^ there is a long held belief around these parts that Granger is not the teams best player, in fact it's up in the air if he is even the 2nd best player. 

Hibbert looks like he played like shit.


----------



## Gonzo

Luke said:


> So y'all's best player is out and you guys are surprised that the team doesn't look as good as they did last year? Huh?
> 
> The Pacers are a sum greater than their parts, but when the biggest part is missing there's obviously going to be a dropoff. Once Granger comes back everything will be fine.


PPG leader doesn't make a player the best on the team.


----------



## Diable

I'd still take him over Sean May, but the Bobcats probably wouldn't.


----------



## R-Star

I'm going to punch this team in the face.


----------



## R-Star

Luke said:


> So y'all's best player is out and you guys are surprised that the team doesn't look as good as they did last year? Huh?
> 
> The Pacers are a sum greater than their parts, but when the biggest part is missing there's obviously going to be a dropoff. Once Granger comes back everything will be fine.


Obviously we're a worse team without Granger, but we're supposedly deep enough, and talented enough to win games without him. 

We're sitting at 500, so I guess we're doing just that, but I don't expect blow outs.


The Spurs didn't beat us, they took us to the wood shed and treated us like we were a JV team. That's not supposed to happen. Hibbert needs to step the **** up. 2 points and 5 rebounds?


----------



## Gonzo

I just don't understand how the guys can work all offseason and look worse than they did at many points last season. I don't care if we lose, but every game this year has been ugly. It's like these guys forgot how to play basketball when Danny Granger left.


----------



## Gonzo

> INJURY UPDATE: Danny Granger received an injection Tuesday to treat left patellar tendinosis. Team medical personnel are looking at a recovery time of approximately three months.


Sifted through the political bullshit to find this from Pacers Facebook page.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Outstanding. 3 months + the time it always takes Granger to get his shot back + the time it takes him to get in shape means that he should be in good form come playoff time. ****. I guess this is really Paul George's time to show us something.


----------



## R-Star

Its upsetting, but if he's back to 100% for playoff time I'm happy.

Lets just hope this team gets its act together and makes it without him. 2-2 isn't bad, but the way we gave up to the Spurs is frustrating.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> I just don't understand how the guys can work all offseason and look worse than they did at many points last season. I don't care if we lose, but every game this year has been ugly. It's like these guys forgot how to play basketball when Danny Granger left.


Yea, its a little strange. Its not like Granger ever dominated the ball, so I don't know why they're so lost out there on the court.


----------



## Luke

Gonzo said:


> PPG leader doesn't make a player the best on the team.


Who is? Certainly not Roy Hibbert or any of the guards. I guess I could see David West but there's not a whole lot separating those guys from what I can tell. 

Then again if all goes well in Indy neither of these guys will be the best player in the near future, Paul George will be. Wishful thinking, but that kid is talented.


----------



## R-Star

Luke said:


> Who is? Certainly not Roy Hibbert or any of the guards. I guess I could see David West but there's not a whole lot separating those guys from what I can tell.
> 
> Then again if all goes well in Indy neither of these guys will be the best player in the near future, Paul George will be. Wishful thinking, but that kid is talented.


The Pacers function more like a mid 2000's Pistons team. I mean, was there an inarguable best player on the Pistons back then? I don't really think so. I'd say Chauncy and Rip were about equal to the offense, Sheed was valuable on both ends, and Wallace was shutting people down and grabbing a ton of boards. You couldn't really pin point a guy who was "the guy" for them.


Thats how Pacers fans have always viewed this current team, although I think we're starting to realize Danny was a lot more important than we ever realized.


----------



## Knick Killer

Great opporunity for Paul George but this is terrible for the team overall obviously. Could work out okay though if we squeeze into the playoffs as the 7th seed and play Boston first round.


----------



## Gonzo

Last 10 possessions last night:

Missed 23-footer.
Missed 20-footer.
Blocked shot at rim.
Turnover.
Missed 26-footer.
Missed 22-footer.
Turnover.
Missed 7-footer.
Missed 23-footer.
Turnover.

One shot under 20 feet, is this the coaches fault or the players?


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> Last 10 possessions last night:
> 
> Missed 23-footer.
> Missed 20-footer.
> Blocked shot at rim.
> Turnover.
> Missed 26-footer.
> Missed 22-footer.
> Turnover.
> Missed 7-footer.
> Missed 23-footer.
> Turnover.
> 
> One shot under 20 feet, is this the coaches fault or the players?


I honestly don't know who to blame. Roy has played soft as hell for long stretches, George hasn't performed as well as he should offensively, our bench hasn't been as impressive as any of us expected..... the list goes on and on.


We really need to get our shit together if we're going to make the playoffs.


----------



## Gonzo

Gerald Green falls asleep, shoulda had Lance in there, eh R-Star?


----------



## Pacers Fan

Isn't that the point in the game where Sam Young should've been in? It's really frustrating having 3 completely incompetent perimeter players on defense in Augustin, Stephenson, and Green. And they all see significant minutes. When you add that Hibbert and West look lost rotating and neither can hedge or switch a pick and roll effectively, you have a bad recipe for defense. It's almost like this team is 20 years too late. In a league where slow Centers are fading away, it's really tough having two slow-footed big men who seem allergic to rebounding. 

I'm not sure the problem here is as simple as Granger or Vogel.


----------



## Gonzo

Ugh Sam Young. But yeah Hibbert is too slow, he really needs help. I wonder if he's in game shape yet, hopefully not.

I think the only upside so far is we've only played 1 home game... We probably would've won that game last night and the one in Atlanta if they were at home. We've been overlooking that part of the problem, we played bad at times on the road last year. Good road play comes partly from experience, but it would be nice to see a little bit of this Gold Swagger PS&E has been advertising. 

Btw, George Hill was amazing last night, we really need him to look to score right now considering Granger is out. If he can do it consistently, it will only help Hibbert and West on the block/elbow.


----------



## Knick Killer

Raptors lost a Triple OT game last night and didn't arrive into Indiana until 2:30AM and yet they are still managing to play with way more energy than we are.


----------



## Knick Killer

That has to be the most embarrassing loss in years. No excuse to lose to an average team that just came off a triple OT game the night before.


----------



## R-Star

**** this team. And specifically, **** 3 people involved in these losses.

**** Lance Stephenson.
**** Frank Vogel for playing Lance Stephenson and hardly even trying Augustin.
**** Roy Hibber for playing like a backup caliber big man.


----------



## Pacers Fan

I haven't seen enough Pacers games this season, but it seems like Lance is one of our bright spots. He's not a ball-stopper anymore, but he's also not incredibly timid. He picks his spots well, gives us another ball handler when George Hill is on the floor, and is leading our team in field goal and three-point percentage. The downside is that he's still a terrible defender, but no worse than Gerald Green or DJ Augustin. And I thought Darren Collison was bad on D, but man is Augustin atrocious. I'm assuming the reason he isn't playing much is because he's timid, shooting terribly this season, and he provides nothing on defense. He's a great passer, but that only gets you so far.

But yes, for now, **** Roy Hibbert. He's on one of his month-long emotional periods. The guy is just incapable of playing under any pressure whatsoever.

This team is so bad. It's bad enough that we lost to a poor team coming off a triple-OT game the night before, but what's even worse is that this might not even be our worst loss this year.

Our defense is coming along as well as it can considering how bad Stephenson, Augustin, and Green are, but man is our offense terrible. Frank Vogel's whole simple offense, Hubie Brown style might've worked last year and during Vogel's interim period, but man, we should actually have an offense right now that's more complex than a high school team.


----------



## R-Star

Lance is not a bright spot.


----------



## Knick Killer

If we're in the basement of the East mid-season, should Vogel be fired? 


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----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> If we're in the basement of the East mid-season, should Vogel be fired?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


That's a tough call. If we do, aren't we right back to where we were before he took over?

I expected to take a step forward this year, and while Granger is injured, it still looks like we took a step back even if he was healthy on the team.

I don't want to wait until mid season for the team to say "Oh, well this isn't working." I want a change now. Not a coaching change, but we need to shake this team up. Roy Hibbert is asleep, Paul George is proving not to be the #1 option we hoped he'd be, and the bench which was supposed to be a strength has turned into a weakness.


We need a shakeup.


----------



## Gonzo

Lance Stephenson is the least of our problems. I'd rather have him in than Augustin, D.J. has not gelled well yet with this team at all.

Our offense is horrible, one of the worst in the league. We gave Vogel a pass last year with the whole shortened training camp and preseason, but this year he gets a good amount of time and it is still just as bad. I really think this guy is just incapable of creating an offensive system that works with the players that we have. I'm afraid that he has a lot of JOB in him.

I found it hilarious that Hibbert was benched down the stretch, maybe that will light a fire under his ass? Doubt it. Dude's probably arranging some more flash mobs.


----------



## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> Lance is not a bright spot.


As bad as everyone else is playing, he's a bright spot. Highest 3pt %? That's pretty good considering he only made like 3 points from behind the arc in his past two seasons. It shows he's actually working on his game compared to everyone else. He's the only guy that looks improved this year.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> As bad as everyone else is playing, he's a bright spot. Highest 3pt %? That's pretty good considering he only made like 3 points from behind the arc in his past two seasons. It shows he's actually working on his game compared to everyone else. He's the only guy that looks improved this year.


I'd say George Hill, and the overall play of George outside of his offense has been the bright spots for me.

Lance Stephenson stagnates the offense when hes on the floor. Have you guys not asked yourselves whats different about this time other than Granger being gone? Stephenson is playing over 20 minutes a game, and I bet if you could look it up, our scoring goes way down when hes on the floor.


----------



## Pacers Fan

R-Star said:


> That's a tough call. If we do, aren't we right back to where we were before he took over?


Nope, because we would have Brian Shaw, one of the best assistants in the NBA and a guy who could have a head coaching job if he hadn't been ****ed over by the Lakers, or if he'd wanted to coach a bottom-dweller team.



> I found it hilarious that Hibbert was benched down the stretch, maybe that will light a fire under his ass? Doubt it. Dude's probably arranging some more flash mobs.


Or he's pouting in a hotel room.


----------



## R-Star

Just like we all said Vogel was the greatest after he took us to the playoffs his first half year?

Now everyone wants his head?


Sorry, I'm not willing to just assume someone with no head coach experience is going to do better.


----------



## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> I'd say George Hill, and the overall play of George outside of his offense has been the bright spots for me.
> 
> Lance Stephenson stagnates the offense when hes on the floor. Have you guys not asked yourselves whats different about this time other than Granger being gone? Stephenson is playing over 20 minutes a game, and I bet if you could look it up, our scoring goes way down when hes on the floor.


http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=5&season=22012&split=9&team=

Our best +/- lineup is Hill-*Stephenson*-George-West-Hibbert. I'd argue he has the best +/- of anyone on the team if I could find the statistic. 

He's shooting at a higher percentage than anyone on the team from the field and beyond the arc. He's also averaging just as many points as our highest paid player.


----------



## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> Just like we all said Vogel was the greatest after he took us to the playoffs his first half year?
> 
> Now everyone wants his head?
> 
> 
> Sorry, I'm not willing to just assume someone with no head coach experience is going to do better.


I don't think anyone said he was the greatest, but it's the contrast effect. He seemed a lot better than he was because we were comparing him to JOB. We also were in the honeymoon period.

I'd say that a guy who learned from arguably one of the best basketball minds ever is better than a dude who learned from Jim O'Brien. Just my opinion.


----------



## Gonzo

Pacers Fan said:


> Or he's pouting in a hotel room.


I read over on PD that he was crying on the bench. I don't believe it though.


----------



## Knick Killer

Gonzo said:


> I read over on PD that he was crying on the bench. I don't believe it though.


We should be the ones crying after that contract we gave him.


----------



## Gonzo

I've got no faith in this team. Wouldn't be surprised if we suffer another loss tonight. Bucks always give us trouble in the Bradley Center, too. Scott Skiles has our number.


----------



## roux

Gonzo said:


> I've got no faith in this team. Wouldn't be surprised if we suffer another loss tonight. Bucks always give us trouble in the Bradley Center, too. Scott Skiles has our number.


This Bucks team is going to give damn near every team in the league trouble...with the speed of our backcourt and the length of our frontcourt we are kind of an oddball squad that presents weird matchup problems..should be a good game tonight though


----------



## Gonzo

You would think that when they have Dunleavy in the game we'd be exploiting him, but nope, more passing around the perimeter.


----------



## Knick Killer

Down 27 in the 3rd.


Vogel's not going to survive the season. Danny Grangers our best player, but theres no way we should be this bad without him. I didn't expect us to be a contender with DG injured, but we're playing the worst basketball I've seen in years.


----------



## R-Star

If one person defends Lance Stephenson and calls him a bright spot after tonight, I'll fly there and punch them in the ****ing mouth.



Is this enough to see Lance is absolute junk?


And maybe, just maybe Collison wasn't junk like everyone kept arguing with me.



Apologies for being a dick. This team makes me very angry right now.


----------



## Pacers Fan

R-Star said:


> Just like we all said Vogel was the greatest after he took us to the playoffs his first half year?
> 
> Now everyone wants his head?


Not entirely. Everyone knew Vogel would be on a short leash. To be honest I was shocked we didn't find another coach. Vogel was a video coordinator turned assistant, and I didn't even know he had been our lead assistant until we gave him the job. After the honeymoon era post-JOB, I thought he'd done enough to give himself another year. We gave him two. That might've been one too many.



> Sorry, I'm not willing to just assume someone with no head coach experience is going to do better.


See Gonzo's post.



> Our best +/- lineup is Hill-Stephenson-George-West-Hibbert. I'd argue he has the best +/- of anyone on the team if I could find the statistic.


He was +14 when I looked earlier today. After tonight he's at +4. But two games ago he was +40 or so. All these losses aren't doing well for the +/- of the rest of the team, though.

Looks like Lance had a poor night tonight, but from the statline, it looks like our best guys were Hansbrough, Green, and Sam Young, so I think we should throw this one out the window. Hibbert took 6 shots and Hill was 1/10. This whole team is out of sync.



> And maybe, just maybe Collison wasn't junk like everyone kept arguing with me.


Collison's looking good in Dallas, but that's because Rick Carlisle isn't running the same offense he ran in Indy. Indiana has been the place PG's go to die ever since we fired Isiah Thomas, and that's because of the chain of command. We've essentially been running different forms of the same exhausted offense for a decade now, passed down from Larry Bird's ancient ways to Carlisle to O'Brien to Vogel. At least Brian Shaw would be a little different.

Just look at our history. PG hasn't been an advantageous position for us since Larry Brown, except for Jamaal Tinsley's rookie season. Every PG plays better before they come here and after they leave. It's the way we run our offense. George Hill is actually the perfect PG for the style we've been running forever.


----------



## Gonzo

Collison would be having a poor year on this team in this offense plain and simple. NOLA had a system better suited for Collison and so does Dallas. Chalk it up to a bad coach folks. It's still JOB ball, the offense (at least offensive output) seriously looks a lot like O'Brien's right before he got fired. The games aren't even entertaining to watch anymore, I've actually put schoolwork over them, I'd rather do something productive. Why waste 2 hours of my time? I'm starting to think that Danny couldn't help this team.

We have the players, but the wrong system. These guys don't fit in this bullshit we call an offense at all.


----------



## clownskull

Gonzo said:


> You would think that when they have Dunleavy in the game we'd be exploiting him, but nope, more passing around the perimeter.


yep- the fact that when one of the worst defenders in the game is out there and you don't attack him every time is not good. i knew having no granger would be tough but- this is ridiculous. unless they get things together and quick- there aren't going to be any playoffs for the pacers. they are playing some of the worst basketball in the league right now.
i expect collison to torch us friday.
in fact, i looked at the rest of november's schedule and there are several games where even if our opponents take us lightly, we will likely lose.
i see 3 possible wins remaining this month. at washington on the 19th, home against the hornets and the 30th against the kings.
i know the lakers have struggled but it is in l.a. and if they are going to have a bad game and win, they are still likely to beat a dysfunctional pacer squad. by the time danny gets back (IF he gets back this year) it may be too late to even matter considering it will be a month before he is in playing shape again.


----------



## Knick Killer

At least I got the Hoosiers to be excited about.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Knick Killer said:


> At least I got the Hoosiers to be excited about.


Yep. It's a nice time to be living in Bloomington.


----------



## R-Star

I'm to the point where I'm apprehensive about today's game. Not even excited.


I hope to hell we're just starting the year off cold.


----------



## Luke

Fans are fickle. Everybody on here loved Vogel and all of a sudden after less than ten games he's the most hated man in Indiana? Keep in mind it's been less than ten games *without his best player*. I never thought he was that great, but he's certainly not the only reason why the Pacers are struggling right now.


----------



## R-Star

Luke said:


> Fans are fickle. Everybody on here loved Vogel and all of a sudden after less than ten games he's the most hated man in Indiana? Keep in mind it's been less than ten games *without his best player*. I never thought he was that great, but he's certainly not the only reason why the Pacers are struggling right now.


I never said he was. Since last years playoffs I've been saying I don't like Vogels set minute rotations he uses no matter what. If you're hot, you're still being yanked out when his stop watch hits. If you're cold, you're still staying in until the stop watch hits. 

I've also been one of the guys saying I don't want him fired just yet.


As a Laker fan, please don't try coming in here pulling some all and might bullshit when we've seen you guys chicken little since the start of the season.


----------



## R-Star

Are we ok benching Hibbert at some point, or are we just supposed to sit back and wait for him to decide he wants to put some effort in.


Hes not even trying out there. Somethings off mentally.


----------



## R-Star

Sam Young is in..... YES!



**** off Frank.


----------



## R-Star

I don't know which Augustin you guys have been watching, but hes at worst an average defender, and when he's out there the teams ball movement is just so much better. 

How Lance is playing more than him is beyond me.


----------



## R-Star

Hibbert playing amazing in the third, doing hustle plays on both sides of the court. Good to see that guy back, I've missed him.


Sam Young also quietly making me look stupid.


----------



## R-Star

Shit, even Lance has played nice. 

This game has put a big smile on my face after the shit we've been doing prior to tonight.


----------



## R-Star

Easily our best game. Can't help but feel good after a win like that. 

Special **** you's to Darren Collison, who is on both my fantasy league teams, and Jae Crowder, who I dropped Kawhi Leonard for after he blew up in the pre season.


Hibbert looked great, Hill looked good as always, and Stephenson and Young made me look stupid. Nice game.



Only downside is George just does not have the temperament to be a big scorer in this league. Its too bad since he has all the tools.


----------



## Gonzo

Luke said:


> Fans are fickle. Everybody on here loved Vogel and all of a sudden after less than ten games he's the most hated man in Indiana? Keep in mind it's been less than ten games *without his best player*. I never thought he was that great, but he's certainly not the only reason why the Pacers are struggling right now.


Vogel came in after a guy named Jim O'Brien. There's things called the contrast effect and a honeymoon period where the guy after looks especially good because of the incompetence of the guy before. We're human, sorry. Your lack of understanding of *human* psychology is laughable, and you still try to jab at Pacers fans because we "overreact." Lakers fans have a "Fire Mike Brown" Facebook page and Pacers fans bitch on a message board, who gives a shit? We're all equals.


----------



## Gonzo

I caught the game at a bar, but it looked like we played well. Everybody starting to hit on all cylinders, I figured it would take a few home games before that happened. Now we need some road wins and these guys to man the **** up.


----------



## Gonzo

About Jim O'Brien:



> David Harrison ‏@DavidHarrison13
> @MikeWellsNBA he probably has nothing positive to say like when he would call me a **** on film.


So he used to call David Harrison a **** during film sessions... How does this guy have an assistant coaching job?


----------



## Knick Killer

Well David Harrison is a **** so I don't blame JOB for that.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Knick Killer said:


> Well David Harrison is a **** so I don't blame JOB for that.


:fail:


----------



## Luke

R-Star said:


> I never said he was. Since last years playoffs I've been saying I don't like Vogels set minute rotations he uses no matter what. If you're hot, you're still being yanked out when his stop watch hits. If you're cold, you're still staying in until the stop watch hits.
> 
> I've also been one of the guys saying I don't want him fired just yet.
> 
> 
> As a Laker fan, please don't try coming in here pulling some all and might bullshit when we've seen you guys chicken little since the start of the season.


What does the fact of me being a Laker fan have to do with anything? I stand by my statement of this isn't completely on Vogel's shoulders, it's been a handful of games without his best player. I don't get why everyone on here is freaking out.


----------



## R-Star

Luke said:


> What does the fact of me being a Laker fan have to do with anything? I stand by my statement of this isn't completely on Vogel's shoulders, it's been a handful of games without his best player. I don't get why everyone on here is freaking out.


Because of your recent coach debacle.

Seems pretty self explanatory to me.


----------



## Gonzo

Luke said:


> What does the fact of me being a Laker fan have to do with anything? I stand by my statement of this isn't completely on Vogel's shoulders, it's been a handful of games without his best player. I don't get why everyone on here is freaking out.


I don't understand why people think that having our best player back will solve all of our problems, Granger isn't that much of a life saver. You would think that as good as you seem to think that Granger is he should have been considered an MVP last year since all that good play was because of him.

We're freaking out because every single one of our players appears to have not improved over the summer or gotten worse. We're freaking out because our highest paid player is playing like a pussy. We're freaking out because we're shooting 40%. We're freaking out because we lost to the Bobcats. We're freaking out because there is a lack of movement in the offense and too many bonehead passes. We're freaking out because we don't know how long Granger will be out (he's been on crutches) and he might not get into game shape before the end of the season. We're freaking out because it appears that this team has no drive or intensity. We're freaking out because Lance Stephenson has shown that he's our most consistent player. Lance Stephenson, you think about that for a minute.

Get the **** out of here with your SportsCenter analysis. Just because you're a Global Moderator doesn't mean that you can talk about stuff that you don't know anything about. We could be down so bad that it won't matter when Granger comes back.


----------



## R-Star

Agreed with everything. Except Lance Stephenson sucks.


And you tell him. No one comes in our forum and tell us whats up.


----------



## Knick Killer

Paul George with a career high in points, Roy Hibbert with the triple double(10 blocks), and a Pacers win. Now that's what I like to ****ing see. 


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----------



## R-Star

But George broke Reggies 3's made in a game record?

Crazy.

Dude got 2 fouls early in the first again and I tough "Well ****!", then he goes ape shit in the 2nd half and takes over. We need more of that.


----------



## Gonzo

Paul didn't even score in the first quarter. What got them fired up? Looked like same old shit looking at the box score in the beginning.

I really wish I had been able to see this game


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----------



## Gonzo

Plus/minus for the season

+33 Lance Stephenson 
+20 David West 
+11 George Hill 
+4 Roy Hibbert 
+1 Gerald Green 
-4 Tyler Hansbrough 
-14 DJ Augustin 
-19 Sam Young 
-34 Paul George 
-66 Ian Mahinmi


----------



## Gonzo

Frank Vogel forgets how to manage his timeouts and gets out coached by Popovich


----------



## Gonzo

No field goal in the final 5:30. 

Yeah, all we need is Danny Granger......................


----------



## Knick Killer

Up 40-33 at halftime against the Lakers. Sloppy half but we're shutting them down so far. David West is leading us as usual. 


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----------



## Knick Killer

If Dwight Howard misses a shot, and a defender even slightly touches him, they call a foul. Smh.


----------



## Knick Killer

Tyler Hansbrough doesn't look like he has improved AT ALL since last year. I'm afraid he's reached his ceiling by being a white guy that can hustle and rebound.


----------



## Knick Killer

Dwight Howard is doing his best Shaquille O'neal impersonation at the free throw line tonight.


----------



## Gonzo

We're over on the Lakers forum


----------



## Knick Killer

George Hill is the man. He's such a smart player and can totally see why Popovich loved him so much.


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> Tyler Hansbrough doesn't look like he has improved AT ALL since last year. I'm afraid he's reached his ceiling by being a white guy that can hustle and rebound.


If anything he's looking worse. Still a guy I want on the rotation doing the hustle stuff and getting under guys skin, but where's the 20 points every once in a while Hansbrough?

He looked like a starter before, he doesn't look close now. Just an energy hustle guy.


----------



## Basel

Shut up R-Star.


----------



## Knick Killer

> SACRAMENTO, Calif. -- "Togetherness." It's one of the most commonly used words with the Indiana Pacers this season.
> 
> Coach Frank Vogel puts it in quotations at the top of the dry-erase board before every game. The players mention it when talking about the team.
> 
> That's understandable considering where things stand.
> 
> Are the Pacers the most talented team on the court every game? No.
> 
> Have they lost games that have left fans scratching their heads? Yes, and it probably won't be the last time.
> 
> Are they likely to hover around .500 for the time being instead of taking off on a winning streak? Probably.
> 
> But despite their disappointing losses, an inability to hold double-digit leads and a road-heavy schedule so far, the Pacers have held it together so far this season, something that wasn't always the case in the past.
> 
> They have to, there's no other choice. Leading scorer Danny Granger (knee) isn't coming to the rescue next week or even next month.
> 
> The Pacers played together Tuesday when they won on the road against the Los Angeles Lakers.
> 
> "Positive chemistry and togetherness and confidence are things that are built throughout the season," Vogel said. "Those weren't always there early in the season. I talked to the guys after all those losses and reminded them to keep our frustrations in check, keep it all in perspective with the things we're dealing with."
> 
> The Pacers could have easily fallen apart already.
> 
> They blew double-digit, second-half leads in losses to San Antonio and Atlanta. They couldn't figure out a zone defense in Charlotte. They lost to a Toronto team that played a triple-overtime game the previous night.
> 
> "Obviously you have a little doubt that might have crept in there, but I thought we did a good job as a group to stay together," forward David West said. "We're going to continue to fight. We're getting contributions from a bunch of guys. We're going to need that to stay together."
> 
> West and George Hill have been the backbone of the team. The two veterans lead on the court, on the bench and inside the locker room.
> 
> The signature example of how close the Pacers are came two weeks ago in Milwaukee.
> 
> Down 20 with the outcome already determined, West cheered from the bench, urging the young players to continue playing hard instead of sulking over the loss.
> 
> When leaders lead, others follow.
> 
> "I think that's the competitive nature that myself and David have to keep everybody together and always think positive that things can get better," point guard George Hill said. "We know we're not the best that we can possibly be, but we know to continue to believe in each other and trust other."
> 
> Vogel showed that he can adjust when he acknowledged the offensive system wasn't working and changed it.
> 
> Now there's more movement and tempo, which has led to a jump in scoring average by seven points a game since the switch was made on Nov. 16.
> 
> The Pacers (7-8) have shown signs of improving, but it's too early to say they've officially turned the corner despite their victory over the Lakers.
> 
> The test will come tonight against the Sacramento Kings.
> 
> The Pacers beat the Lakers out West last season, too, only to lose to Sacramento on the same trip.
> 
> A victory tonight will not only make Tuesday's win over the Lakers more meaningful, it'll also even the Pacers record at 8-8.
> 
> "We understand we have enough talent in this room to compete," West said. "Again, we're gaining in terms of our confidence. We're getting more solid. We made mental errors earlier in games that we've been able to correct."


http://www.indystar.com/article/20121129/SPORTS04/211300324


----------



## Gonzo

Didn't we steal the term "togetherness" from Doc Rivers?


----------



## R-Star

I think we'd be a lot better with Collison still on the team. Its too bad we couldn't have found a way to get Mahinmi without giving him up. Augustin has been a letdown for the most part.


----------



## Knick Killer

Collison's a bum.


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----------



## R-Star

You're a bum.


----------



## Gonzo

Didn't Collison get benched in Dallas because of his poor defense?


----------



## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> You're a bum.


Collison and I have something in common then.


----------



## R-Star

You're a good pass first point guard?


----------



## Pacers Fan

R-Star said:


> You're a good pass first point guard?


Collison is far from a pass-first PG. He's a quick pick & roll PG with a good mid-range game and a timid scorer's mentality. His court vision is worse than a significant number of 2-guards. He's getting benched for Derek Fisher.


----------



## R-Star

Pacers Fan said:


> Collison is far from a pass-first PG. He's a quick pick & roll PG with a good mid-range game and a timid scorer's mentality. His court vision is worse than a significant number of 2-guards. He's getting benched for Derek Fisher.


Oh, a post from you where you underrate Collison.


Never seen that before.


----------



## R-Star

By the way, there isn't one 2 guard in the league averaging more assists than Collison.


----------



## Pacers Fan

R-Star said:


> By the way, there isn't one 2 guard in the league averaging more assists than Collison.


Are Mo Williams and Jeremy Lin pass-first PGs because they average more assists than Collison? Look how high Westbrook and Jeff Teague are. You can get assists without having good court vision.


----------



## Porn Player

Pacers Fan said:


> Are Mo Williams and Jeremy Lin pass-first PGs because they average more assists than Collison? Look how high Westbrook and Jeff Teague are. You can get assists without having good court vision.


Mo Will and Teague are good arguments. Both Lin and Westbrook play with elite level scorers, which gives them a plethora of assists that they don't deserve.


----------



## R-Star

Pacers Fan said:


> Are Mo Williams and Jeremy Lin pass-first PGs because they average more assists than Collison? Look how high Westbrook and Jeff Teague are. You can get assists without having good court vision.


That would make sense if Collison got a ton of turnovers a game, but he doesn't. 
It would also make sense if Collison jacked up the ball and took a ton of shots.... but he doesn't.


We've had this argument before, and you don't know what you're talking about.


----------



## Pacers Fan

R-Star said:


> That would make sense if Collison got a ton of turnovers a game, but he doesn't.
> It would also make sense if Collison jacked up the ball and took a ton of shots.... but he doesn't.
> 
> 
> We've had this argument before, and you don't know what you're talking about.


That doesn't concern me. You're getting to be worse than EH.

I really don't care about this, though. Collison isn't on the team anymore, and we actually have a pass-first PG now in Augustin. Collison started off the year great, but he's really regressed yet again. He is what he is, a guy who should be a top 5-10 backup PG in the NBA, just like Augustin.

And yes, Collison doesn't turn the ball over or take a lot of shots. He's patient and waits for the good play. However, that doesn't mean he looks for the pass first or that he has good court vision. He can't see the floor because he's tiny and he doesn't have a very good handle, either, for such a small player. That's what limits him, and a lot of the time he's better off taking his mid-range jumpers instead trying to make plays for others, simply because he's not an effective playmaker outside the pick & roll. Kudos to Collison for playing towards his strengths. He knows what he is, too.

Yes, PR, that's very true, but that's still only Harden and Durant to pass the ball to for an easy basket. I mean, there's Chandler Parsons and Kevin Martin, but that's not much to work with. It is pretty nice to simply be able to swing the ball and get an assist, though.

As for other examples, Kemba Walker and AJ Price, somehow, are up there.


----------



## R-Star

He has a high assist number, low turnovers, and average shot attempts. For a point guard that speaks for itself.

Again, argue all you want, but you have no clue what you're talking about.


"He's small so it means he can't see the floor" are you kidding me? Rondo is an inch taller, that makes a huge difference?


----------



## Pacers Fan

R-Star said:


> "He's small so it means he can't see the floor" are you kidding me? Rondo is an inch taller, that makes a huge difference?


Height is a predisposition to not being able to see the floor well. Look at Scottie Pippen, LBJ, Magic, etc. They could see over the entire defense and it worked wonders for them. That's just where it starts for Collison, though. Players like Rondo, Augustin, and a bunch others overcome that and run the floor well. In addition to height, some people just have poor peripheral vision. Collison plays like he has tunnel vision, so not only can he not see above the defense, like Rondo or Augustin (Rondo can, actually, because defenders play so far off him), but he also can't see what's going on around him. It's pretty simple.


----------



## R-Star

Pacers Fan said:


> Height is a predisposition to not being able to see the floor well. Look at Scottie Pippen, LBJ, Magic, etc. They could see over the entire defense and it worked wonders for them. That's just where it starts for Collison, though. Players like Rondo, Augustin, and a bunch others overcome that and run the floor well. In addition to height, some people just have poor peripheral vision. Collison plays like he has tunnel vision, so not only can he not see above the defense, like Rondo or Augustin (Rondo can, actually, because defenders play so far off him), but he also can't see what's going on around him. It's pretty simple.


Ha...wow.

So you name the 3 best passing forwards of all time(Magic had a forwards body), and that somehow proves the Collison isn't a good pass first PG?

If that wasn't enough, you say Augustin can see above defenders and Collison can't, even though they're the same height. 

You also take the time to put on your optometrist hat and tell us how Darren Collison's eyes work compared to the rest of NBA players.


Darren Collison is a good pass first PG. You can argue if hes starter quality or not. You can't argue that he's a good passer, or that he's pass first. Keep trying, but I hope you make some better points, because that post above is some of the worst shit I've ever seen.


----------



## Pacers Fan

R-Star said:


> So you name the 3 best passing forwards of all time(Magic had a forwards body), and that somehow proves the Collison isn't a good pass first PG?


Ok. How about Penny Hardaway and Shaun Livingston? It's not hard to realize that height helps you play the PG position and see over the defense. Collison doesn't have that. I honestly don't see what you're missing about this.



> If that wasn't enough, you say Augustin can see above defenders and Collison can't, even though they're the same height.


Nope. Augustin can see around him better. That's the difference. Next time you watch Collison, check out how many times he stops his dribble (because he's not skilled with the ball or doesn't know what to do), pivots, and passes the ball back out, only to get it back. A number of NBA PG's do this, and some more than others, but it shows you that they can't get to the spots they want or make a forward-looking play from that spot. You ever play the game?

I'm watching Jrue Holiday in the Philly game right now. That man has some court vision. He's also 6'4".



> You also take the time to put on your optometrist hat and tell us how Darren Collison's eyes work compared to the rest of NBA players.


You ever studied how the eye works?


----------



## R-Star

Pacers Fan said:


> Ok. How about Penny Hardaway and Shaun Livingston? It's not hard to realize that height helps you play the PG position and see over the defense. Collison doesn't have that. I honestly don't see what you're missing about this.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Augustin can see around him better. That's the difference. Next time you watch Collison, check out how many times he stops his dribble (because he's not skilled with the ball or doesn't know what to do), pivots, and passes the ball back out, only to get it back. A number of NBA PG's do this, and some more than others, but it shows you that they can't get to the spots they want or make a forward-looking play from that spot. You ever play the game?
> 
> I'm watching Jrue Holiday in the Philly game right now. That man has some court vision. He's also 6'4".
> 
> 
> 
> You ever studied how the eye works?


Augustin can see around him better.... because you say so? Nothing stands beside that statement for you. Not assist numbers. Not turnovers. Not what I've personally seen. No. 

And have I ever played the game? Yes. I have. Its a basketball website, everyone here has played the game.

You know who was a better passer than Jrue Holiday? John Stockton. He was 6'1". Ooooohhh, maybe it was because of the way players defended him in comparison to how they play Collison, or hey, maybe its because if you look really close, the elongated shape of his retinas....... shut up.


Have I ever studied eyes? No. Let me guess, you have. You're an eye expert. I mean sure, not even the #1 eye guy on the planet could watch a basketball game and tell you about a players eye sight...... but you can right?



This is both pathetic and ridiculous.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Lance Stephenson.


----------



## R-Star

Sucks.


----------



## Pacers Fan

R-Star said:


> Augustin can see around him better.... because you say so? Nothing stands beside that statement for you. Not assist numbers. Not turnovers. Not what I've personally seen. No.


Well, try to watch some Dallas games and get back to me in a month.




> You know who was a better passer than Jrue Holiday? John Stockton. He was 6'1". Ooooohhh, maybe it was because of the way players defended him in comparison to how they play Collison, or hey, maybe its because if you look really close, the elongated shape of his retinas....... shut up.


Actually, Stockton's assist numbers were heavily inflated. And this all relates to football as well. You know, your quarterback needs to be able to see to make plays. Some people have superior eyes to others. Some people have superior knowledge of the game. Some people have both.




> Have I ever studied eyes? No. Let me guess, you have. You're an eye expert. I mean sure, not even the #1 eye guy on the planet could watch a basketball game and tell you about a players eye sight...... but you can right?


Really? Do you not watch a game and look at the multiple options players can make with the ball? It's pretty easy to put yourself in their shoes and get a gauge for what they should be able to see, and how they react.


----------



## R-Star

Pacers Fan said:


> Well, try to watch some Dallas games and get back to me in a month.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, Stockton's assist numbers were heavily inflated. And this all relates to football as well. You know, your quarterback needs to be able to see to make plays. Some people have superior eyes to others. Some people have superior knowledge of the game. Some people have both.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really? Do you not watch a game and look at the multiple options players can make with the ball? It's pretty easy to put yourself in their shoes and get a gauge for what they should be able to see, and how they react.


I've watched Dallas games this year. I've also watched a ton of Indiana games as well obviously.

Darren Collison is a good pass first point guard.

But hey, don't take my word for it, here's his draft profile:

_Strengths: Smooth, heady point who is one of the quickest guards in college basketball ... Has extremely efficient numbers both shooting from all places on the court as well as decision making, running the team ... Has a high basketball I.Q. displaying excellent passing ability (averaged just under 2/1 T:O ratio his senior year) ... Collison has proven to be a true leader at the point guard position having led his team to three straight final four appearances before his senior year ... Uses his lightning speed to blow by defenders to get to the basket ... Excellent on the ball defender, his quick hands and long arms really cause trouble for opponents (over 1.5 steals per game for his career) ... Has a great handle with the ball, and rarely makes bad decisions, and has shown that he can run a team ... Has developed a solid runner that he utilizes to cut off drives before getting in too deep against long athletic post players … Has improved his shooting ability over his college years at UCLA by shooting just under 40% from 3, and over 50% from inside the arc this past season ... Has been a proven winner from high school all the way through college, finds a way to get the job done ... Has a chance to become a starter and if not should make for an excellent back up …
_


But hey, what do they know. They probably aren't even eye scientists like yourself.


----------



## Pacers Fan

You probably shouldn't cite the site that has a terrible reputation for projecting players' professional outlooks.

Of course Collison was spectacular in college. For the college game, he was incredible. For the NBA, he's pretty average.


----------



## R-Star

Pacers Fan said:


> You probably shouldn't cite the site that has a terrible reputation for projecting players' professional outlooks.
> 
> Of course Collison was spectacular in college. For the college game, he was incredible. For the NBA, he's pretty average.


We're talking about passing ability. And he's a good pass first PG. You can keep arguing all you want, but again, you're doing absolutely terrible.


"Uhhhh, that draft site sucks!" Oh ok. Your opinion is better. Alright then.


----------



## Gonzo

Alright Ladies, cool it.

Collison is not a good floor general or a pass first PG. Had he been either of those two the Indiana Pacers mediocrity should have flourished. Dude was ****ing benched for George Hill, a shooting guard.

R-Star is grasping, basketball is not Canada's #1 sport.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> Alright Ladies, cool it.
> 
> Collison is not a good floor general or a pass first PG. Had he been either of those two shouldn't Indiana Pacers mediocrity flourished? Dude was ****ing benched for George Hill, a shooting guard.
> 
> R-Star is grasping, basketball is not Canada's #1 sport.


He was benched for a great combo guard. You guys can argue all you want, the stats completely disagree. 

Is he a quality starter? That's debatable. Is he a good passer? That is not. Because he is a good passer.


----------



## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> He was benched for a great combo guard. You guys can argue all you want, the stats completely disagree.
> 
> Is he a quality starter? That's debatable. Is he a good passer? That is not. Because he is a good passer.


His stats in Indiana were horrible, he had the lowest assist number of starting point guards in the NBA.

Pass first PG my ass.

And *great* combo guard is debatable.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> Alright Ladies, cool it.
> 
> Collison is not a good floor general or a pass first PG. Had he been either of those two the Indiana Pacers mediocrity should have flourished. Dude was ****ing benched for George Hill, a shooting guard.
> 
> R-Star is grasping, basketball is not Canada's #1 sport.


Its getting upsetting that I'm stuck posting with guys who think Lance Stephenson is a good NBA player.


You're right Gonzo, **** stats. **** his good assist numbers and low turnover ratio. Its meaningless, because 2 Pacers fans who have argued that Lance Stephenson is amazing say he sucks.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> His stats in Indiana were horrible, he had the lowest assist number of starting point guards in the NBA.
> 
> Pass first PG my ass.
> 
> And *great* combo guard is debatable.


Everyone has low assist numbers in Indiana. You just helped prove my point.


----------



## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> Its getting upsetting that I'm stuck posting with guys who think Lance Stephenson is a good NBA player.
> 
> 
> You're right Gonzo, **** stats. **** his good assist numbers and low turnover ratio. Its meaningless, because 2 Pacers fans who have argued that Lance Stephenson is amazing say he sucks.


Never once have I argued that Lance is a good NBA player, but I've argued that he's played well this year, which has become a joke on the forums because people don't watch the Pacers. 

Bringing up Lance... I remember our old starting PG in Collison averaging 4 assists per game. I don't give a **** about turnovers, when you average 4 assists with Granger, West, and Hibbert around you... you suck and are not a pass first PG. Rondo could average 10+ easy.


----------



## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> Everyone has low assist numbers in Indiana. You just helped prove my point.


Couldn't a pass first PG help this?

Is it because he haven't had a true pass first PG since Tinsley? It's not the system, it's the players.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> Never once have I argued that Lance is a good NBA player, but I've argued that he's played well this year, which has become a joke on the forums because people don't watch the Pacers.
> 
> Bringing up Lance... I remember our old starting PG in Collison averaging 4 assists per game. I don't give a **** about turnovers, when you average 4 assists with Granger, West, and Hibbert around you... you suck and are not a pass first PG. *Rondo could average 10+ easy.*


On the Pacers? Not a chance unless they changed their system. Indiana isn't set up where the point guard runs the offense and sets up plays, thus Collison having career lows in assists and all of the sudden getting 6+ as soon as he left. 


And if you say you don't care about turn overs, then again, I tire of who I get to post with for Indiana fans around here.


----------



## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> On the Pacers? Not a chance unless they changed their system. Indiana isn't set up where the point guard runs the offense and sets up plays, thus Collison having career lows in assists and all of the sudden getting 6+ as soon as he left.
> 
> 
> And if you say you don't care about turn overs, then again, I tire of who I get to post with for Indiana fans around here.


Rondo would average 10+ here because Vogel has tried to build this system around the players. I still believe that without a system change Rondo would do fine with his assist numbers considering the potential there is on this team.

Turnovers don't mean shit when you're not getting any assists as a PG, having few turnovers doesn't cancel out the fact that one can't get an assist so I don't know why you're arguing this here. 

Collison is playing for a much better coach, but he's been benched. Why? Because of that god awful defense of his we always complained about.


----------



## R-Star

What does Collisons defense have to do with him being a good passer?


----------



## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> What does Collisons defense have to do with him being a good passer?


Where did I say his defense has to do with him being a good passer?


----------



## R-Star

Then why are we talking about his defense? 

The discussion was about Collisons passing, which is good. Its his strength along with his basketball IQ and quickness.


----------



## Gonzo

Sure, his passing is good, he's a PG in the NBA. I can pass the ball well and I'm not in the NBA.

His court vision sucks.

You argue that Indiana's system didn't let his court vision shine, perhaps he's in the opposite system where his lack of court vision doesn't inhibit him?


----------



## R-Star

I assume you're watching the game right now. Look what's happening. They bring the ball to the 3 point line, and pass it around until something opens up. They've done that for years now. It doesn't matter what PG is on the floor, that's how they run their offense. The PG isn't allowed to hold onto the ball and set up a play.

It has nothing to do with Collisons court vision, which is good.


----------



## R-Star

8 assists, 0 turnovers tonight for Collison. 5 points on 5 shot attempts.


You know, its almost like he went out there, and looked to set up other players.


Crazy huh?


----------



## Gonzo

2/5 from the field is great.


----------



## R-Star

Fits in with most of the Pacers players shooting percentages doesn't it?



But again, aren't we talking about passing? Or do you guys not want to talk about Collison and his bad court vision and how he isn't a pass first PG?


----------



## Gonzo

One game. Huge sample size there.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> One game. Huge sample size there.


No, the sample size was him getting 6+ assists with a low turnover rate this year.


----------



## Gonzo

And still getting benched for Derrick Fisher.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> And still getting benched for Derrick Fisher.


Uhhh... are you confused? We're talking about his passing. We've always been talking about his passing. Except you and Pacer Fan keep trying to move away from that now.


----------



## Gonzo

How much more is there to argue? You're so worried about your reputation on some shitty message board. Anything anyone says that is against your slanted views is wrong, and always wrong. You're 29, married, and have a kid yet you're still arguing about guys like Lance Stephenson and Darren Collison on an Internet message board that has passed its prime.

How much did you see Lance and Darren play last season?

Lance is infinitely better (which is what I constantly argue) and Darren Collison is still Darren Collison. He's not a floor general, and sucks at what should be his only job. He might be averaging 6 assists now, but I never saw any of this good passing in Indiana. I don't think anyone did, which is why we got rid of him for Mahinmi. R-Star is the only person that magically saw his good passing (or maybe he saw it because we say it sucks?). 

The reason why Indiana's system doesn't reward good PG's is because we haven't had a good PG in 5+ years.

If Darren was as good as you say he is he wouldn't get benched, he wouldn't have been traded. Something tells me the guys running teams in the NBA are smarter than R-Star.


----------



## Gonzo

> @ZachLowe_NBA: Three of Indiana's four rotation big men are shooting below 40 percent.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> How much more is there to argue? You're so worried about your reputation on some shitty message board. Anything anyone says that is against your slanted views is wrong, and always wrong. You're 29, married, and have a kid yet you're still arguing about guys like Lance Stephenson and Darren Collison on an Internet message board that has passed its prime.
> 
> How much did you see Lance and Darren play last season?
> 
> Lance is infinitely better (which is what I constantly argue) and Darren Collison is still Darren Collison. He's not a floor general, and sucks at what should be his only job. He might be averaging 6 assists now, but I never saw any of this good passing in Indiana. I don't think anyone did, which is why we got rid of him for Mahinmi. R-Star is the only person that magically saw his good passing (or maybe he saw it because we say it sucks?).
> 
> The reason why Indiana's system doesn't reward good PG's is because we haven't had a good PG in 5+ years.
> 
> If Darren was as good as you say he is he wouldn't get benched, he wouldn't have been traded. Something tells me the guys running teams in the NBA are smarter than R-Star.


:lol:

So I can't argue on a message board? Maybe we should just post saying "Go Pacers!" and leave every single post to that. And I'm sorry Jimmy, but no, I don't give a **** what people think about me on here.

Show me a post where I said Darren Collison was a great point guard. I'd like to see it. No, what I said, and pay careful attention because your selective reading is getting real ****ing annoying, is this: Darren Collison is a good passer with good court vision. Read it again. His draft profile agrees with me. His stats agree with me. What I've personally seen of him agrees with me.

I posted about how the Pacers just sit at the 3 point line and pass the ball around until they find an opening. You decided not to reply to that post. I posted his draft profile which says hes a great passer with a high basketball IQ. Nope. Lets not talk about that. You personally say he isn't a good passer. Hell, you even say Hibbert isn't a good defender, even though he anchors the paint for the best defensive team in the league. 


So again, the argument isn't is Darren Collison amazing, or is he a starting point guard, no. It has always been whether or not hes a good passer. Read that carefully because you don't seem to be able to understand it. And when it comes to that argument, its not arguable. His stats say he is, his draft profile says he is, and what he shows on the court says he is.


----------



## Pacers Fan

:fail:


----------



## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> :lol:
> 
> So I can't argue on a message board? Maybe we should just post saying "Go Pacers!" and leave every single post to that. And I'm sorry Jimmy, but no, I don't give a **** what people think about me on here.
> 
> Show me a post where I said Darren Collison was a great point guard. I'd like to see it. No, what I said, and pay careful attention because your selective reading is getting real ****ing annoying, is this: Darren Collison is a good passer with good court vision. Read it again. His draft profile agrees with me. His stats agree with me. What I've personally seen of him agrees with me.
> 
> I posted about how the Pacers just sit at the 3 point line and pass the ball around until they find an opening. You decided not to reply to that post. I posted his draft profile which says hes a great passer with a high basketball IQ. Nope. Lets not talk about that. You personally say he isn't a good passer. Hell, you even say Hibbert isn't a good defender, even though he anchors the paint for the best defensive team in the league.
> 
> 
> So again, the argument isn't is Darren Collison amazing, or is he a starting point guard, no. It has always been whether or not hes a good passer. Read that carefully because you don't seem to be able to understand it. And when it comes to that argument, its not arguable. His stats say he is, his draft profile says he is, and what he shows on the court says he is.


We both have selective reading; you've taken my comments about Lance Stephenson out of context many times as well as my comments about Hibbert. Just because Hibbert can block a shot doesn't make him a great defender, he gets burned on every pick and roll. He can't run. He can't guard anyone stronger or faster than him without falling over. He's not good a rotating, something we need with guys like Stephenson on defense. Yeah, great defense. Never said he was bad, and he is an anchor, but blocking and protecting the rim is about the only good thing he does on defense. 

His draft profile says he's a good passer... in college. Who cares about a 4 year old draft profile? His stats in Indiana say he wasn't a good passer. I never saw it, and I don't think that Bird, Vogel, or JOB saw it. I agree that our system doesn't really help PG's out, but I saw a better scorer than passer. I actually really enjoyed when he would get aggressive on offense and tried to score. With a guy like David West, it should have been pick and roll heaven. With Danny Granger it should have been drive and dish. Hell, with Paul George shooting 40%+ from the three early last season he should have been hitting him. You can blame it on the system all you want, but the system isn't everything.

He's been benched by two different teams. George Hill is a better defender, scorer, passer, and floor general. George Hill the combo guard has proven he's a better passer.

Agree to disagree, I just don't see the good passing in him. Watching him for 70+ games on our team was frustrating.


----------



## Gonzo

I think maybe Pacers Fan influenced me to hate Collison. First thing I heard about Collison was that he was a bad passer, ruined my perception.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> I think maybe Pacers Fan influenced me to hate Collison. First thing I heard about Collison was that he was a bad passer, ruined my perception.


It happens. If you were to just watch what he did in Indy then it would be hard to think hes a good passer.

Back in Tinsleys prime years here he was allowed to hold onto the ball and look to set the play. Ever since then its been dribbling to the 3 point line, and then passing around looking for someone in a spot to iso. 

In some aspects I like it since it gets everyone involved, but its also why we never have a big scorer or someone who racks up assists. We're 27th in the league in apg right now which shouldn't surprise anyone.


----------



## R-Star

And we'll just have to agree to disagree on Hibbert. From my center the biggest thing I want is him protecting the rim and making people worry that they'll get the ball spiked back into their face.

He gets lit up when he plays Cousins, but that's the only guy who sticks out to me as a guy who always gets the better of the matchup.

Now Roys offense this year...... yea, that's horrible. Somethings wrong. I just hope the coaching staff can help him figure it out, because he's playing like shit on offense.


----------



## Gonzo

I want him to protect the rim as well, but I wish he was faster and stronger... basically just more athletic. It really hurts him at times when he gets a foul because he couldn't rotate fast enough. His foul problems can really hurt us, and it just makes Vogel look down the bench even more, which is what we don't want. Boozer and Noah consistently bend him over and take advantage of him, as well. They seem to love that matchup.

On offense, it almost looks like he's trying some new shots. I've seen a different type of hook shot from him this year, I don't know why. His hook shot was fine last year. His lower body strength really kills him, a lot of guys have figured out that if you just push him out farther from the basket he's rendered basically useless. Dude's a robot only knows how to do certain things on a certain spot, you move him from that spot and he can't figure out what to do different so he just goes for the hook and bricks it.


----------



## R-Star

I can't really argue that. Hes by no means a perfect defender, and his lack of strength is always apparent. 

At the end of the day I think his defensive strengths outweigh his deficiencies, and make him one of the better defensive 5's in the league.


----------



## Knick Killer

You guys are a bunch of idiots. Now kiss and make up so we continue to annoy the rest of the site together. 


Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> You guys are a bunch of idiots. Now kiss and make up so we continue to annoy the rest of the site together.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


Depends on if you think Darren Collison is a good passer or not...


----------



## Gonzo

This was never a hateful debate, just a simple disagreement.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> This was never a hateful debate, just a simple disagreement.


**** you!




...... Just kidding obviously. Me and Gonzo are internet pals. We don't have to always agree to still enjoy posting together.


----------



## Knick Killer

Just making sure the 3 Man Band is still in tact. 


Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## R-Star

No worries on that front bro.


----------



## Gonzo

If I was Canadian this would end poetically.


----------



## Knick Killer

Gonzo said:


> If I was Canadian this would end poetically.


You wish you were lucky enough to call yourself a Canadian. 


Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Luke

From what I've seen from Collison he's definitely not a traditional pass first point guard, his game seems to rely on his speed and scoring ability moreso than setting up others. That being said, I don't think he's a bad passer by any means. He's not Rubio, but he's a perfectly adequate guy to have running the point out there.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Yep. He's pretty adequate. I'd say he's a below average starter in just about every aspect except his speed on offense, and as a reserve he's above average in everything except defense. He probably has better court vision and passing skills than most reserves, but worse than most starters.


----------



## Gonzo

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id...tar-center-roy-hibbert-avoided-becoming-stiff



> _*The Roy Hibbert Project*
> How the Indiana Pacers' All-Star center avoided becoming a stiff_
> 
> "He doesn't get near enough credit for the player he is," an opposing scout told me at the Milwaukee game. "He's clearly one of the most skilled centers in the league." Hibbert's success is partly the result of being in the right league at the right time, but it's also the result of a late-developing but now-obsessive work ethic, which he's channeled toward improving his game and tinkering with his body to maximize his lone natural gift: height.
> 
> About two hours before that game against the Bucks, Hibbert walked onto the floor in a near-empty Bankers Life Fieldhouse and began the game-day routine required to keep a 7-foot-2 body running. A young and athletic team, the Pacers need less of the daily body maintenance you'll find among older squads, whose players have creakier joints. But while teammates hoisted jumpers and joked during impromptu games of one-on-one, Hibbert wandered out to half court alone.
> 
> He began by walking across the floor with varied pace and gait. He then moved on to leg lunges and toe touches and other stretches that are simple to most but, just a few years ago, would have been nearly impossible for Hibbert. Ten minutes passed before he finally picked up a basketball. He moved to the post and started with hook shots — five from the left block, five from the right block, and five from the middle — before assistant coach Brian Shaw stepped in to defend, fouling Hibbert on every touch with no fear of repercussions.
> 
> ...
> 
> his year's presumptive no. 1 draft pick, Anthony Davis, famously underwent a growth spurt after beginning his high school career as a guard. While Davis's growth may have been particularly dramatic and late, his developmental pattern is common among elite big men. Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol, and Tim Duncan all went through a similar process. Hibbert, however, was different. As a third-grader, he was forced to play in a league with older kids because of his size. *By age 12, he stood 6-foot-8. "I regret that I never learned how to play on the perimeter," he says. "If I have a kid who's big like me, I want him to learn those perimeter skills."*
> 
> ...
> 
> Cut to 2004, Hibbert's first year at Georgetown. In an early fall workout, Hibbert lay prostrate in the weight room, watched by strength coach Mike Hill. He'd hit the ground to bang out a few push-ups, but a problem soon became clear: Hibbert couldn't do one. So while women's soccer and lacrosse players looked on, Hill straddled the freshman big man, reached down, and grabbed him by the sides, pulling him up and pushing him down while Hibbert struggled to pitch in. "It was humiliating," Hibbert says. "All these girls are watching — they can do push-ups but I can't." Not only could Hibbert not do a push-up, he couldn't bend his knees enough to do a single squat, even without holding weights.
> 
> That's not all. "He couldn't run," says Boston Celtics forward Jeff Green, who was part of the same Georgetown recruiting class as Hibbert.3 "He was pigeon-toed, and he had these size 18 shoes, so he was just tripping over himself trying to get up and down the court." (Says Hill: "It was more of a waddle than a run.") But in the half court, Green says, "he was a load." Big, with good defensive timing and a soft offensive touch, Hibbert was capable of scoring when he got the ball down low. But this was the Big East, a league stacked with elite athletes. As long as Hibbert was incapable of passing a middle school fitness test, he wouldn't have an impact.


Old article so I'm not sure who all has read it, but it's extremely good. Can't believe that Hibbert was 6'8'' when he was 12 and he couldn't do a single pushup. Now he's doing things like this:






Really hope he starts playing well consistently, we need him.


----------



## R-Star

Pacers Fan said:


> Yep. He's pretty adequate. I'd say he's a below average starter in just about every aspect except his speed on offense, and as a reserve he's above average in everything except defense. He probably has better court vision and passing skills than most reserves, but worse than most starters.


A below average passer who's tied for 17 in assists and also has a great assist to turnover ration.


Yea, that makes a ton of sense.


----------



## R-Star

Nice win bros. Nice game from George, and I think Hibbert helped show he can be one of the premier defenders in the paint in this league.


----------



## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> and I think Hibbert helped show he can be one of the premier defenders in the paint in this league.


I hope this isn't based on that one play he made in the end.

How about that cut from Stephenson and then the defensive play on Noah to prevent the oop?


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> I hope this isn't based on that one play he made in the end.
> 
> How about that cut from Stephenson and then the defensive play on Noah to prevent the oop?


I only saw the second half of the game. Hibbert made some good plays from what I saw though.

Stephenson had some good plays. I'm glad the ball was in Wests hands when Lance made that cut otherwise he probably wouldn't have got the ball. I didn't like that foul on Brewer or whoever it was that got that baseball pass and Lance undercut him for the foul. But I'm not sure he could have done much else there. Just frustrating to foul late in a game with the score so close.


Nate Robinson really helped us win after he brought the Bulls back into it. Pretty sure it was tied game or we were up by 2 and in 2 consecutive plays Nate rushes the play just to shoot a quick 3 with 20 seconds left on the shot clock, and next play he throws a terrible pass out of bounds. The announcers were all "They're bringing in Hinrich for his defense." no, Thibs was benching Robinson for basically losing the game for the Bulls. 


Good win though. I just want us to start moving past the .500 record and start making some headway here.


Its nice to see George string together a couple 30+ point games in a small stretch. I hope he learns some consistency this year.


----------



## Gonzo

I agree that Nate cost them the game, but he also got them back in the game when they down in the 4th.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> I agree that Nate cost them the game, but he also got them back in the game when they down in the 4th.


Yep. Little fella was on fire before those 2 bone headed plays. He scared the shit out of me for a few minutes because they got back in the game and completely stole momentum.


----------



## Gonzo

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/...usts-deng-bulls-late-with-law-of-verticality/



> CHICAGO – Tom Thibodeau called it a train wreck. Frank Vogel, though, took the high road, so to speak, talking about the collision near the basket, near the end of the Indiana Pacers’ 80-76 victory over Chicago at the United Center, as a “fundamental of verticality.”
> 
> It just so happened that Pacers center Roy Hibbert, exercising his verticality, sent Bulls forward Luol Deng into a position of horizontality.
> 
> *Here’s the situation: Chicago trailed 78-76 with 14.1 seconds left. Deng passed inbounds to Joakim Noah, then cut backdoor on Paul George and received a pass from the Bulls center. Hibbert hurried a couple of steps across the paint to meet Deng to the right of the rim. Deng was airborne and Hibbert went up. Straight up, arms extended.*
> 
> Bang! Serious body contact but no whistle. Deng went down as the crowd at United Center roared. Thibodeau threw up his arms. Hibbert wasn’t looking for a charge and didn’t get one, despite Deng’s leading elbow, but he somehow got a blocked shot. David West grabbed the ball and was fouled. Sank them both, game over.
> 
> *“He’s the biggest reason why we lead the league in field-goal defense,” Vogel said a few minutes later. “He’s the best in the league at exercising the fundamental of verticality. Using his legs, getting off his feet and making a legal defensive play and earning a no-call.*
> 
> *“You’re allowed to jump straight up, no matter where you are, and absorb contact. When he learned that and went away from trying to draw charges like he was earlier in his career, he went from not being able to stay on the court to being one of the best defensive centers in the NBA.”*
> 
> *George, the best player on the floor with 34 points, said he didn’t mean to lose Deng but added: “Roy told me to send him into him. I knew I had a big back there, one of the best bigs in the league.”*
> 
> *Thibodeau, who vented at the officials without penalty for what little time remained, saw something different.
> “In my eyes, he got wiped out,” the Bulls coach said. “I did not get an explanation. He had a layup. It was a train wreck. I’m not going to put it on the officials. A tough call went against us. We still have to get it done.”*
> 
> Knowing the law of verticality and getting it enforced in the heat of the moment, on the road, might be two different things. But Vogel said he never was worried.
> 
> *“It’s a legal defensive play that the refs have been honoring throughout the league with all big men,” the Pacers coach said. “It’s made the game a better game. Less guys are trying to draw charges and fall on the ground underneath athletes.”*
> 
> What matters for Indiana is that one big guy is doing less of that, after seeking out charges his first couple seasons.
> 
> *“Nah, I don’t take charges,” Hibbert said. “I used to, but [former Pacers big man] Jeff Foster told me it messed his back up and shaved a couple years off his career. So nah, I’m a 7-footer, I’m going to try to block a shot at the rim.”*
> 
> Hibbert, who is well-known for his intensive work in the summers, focused a lot on defense with the goal of being honored for it -– for the first time -– by the league’s coaches when this season ends.
> 
> “I’m always around the rim,” Hibbert said, ” touching the man I’m guarding and still getting back. Y’know, 7-foot-2 centers from Georgetown, we always play defense.”
> 
> Hibbert didn’t need to wag a finger to make the Dikembe Mutombo connection. He isn’t quite there yet, but he is averaging 3.1 blocks (compared to 2.0 last season) and this was his 12th consecutive game with at least two rejections. The Pacers began the night No. 1, holding teams to 40.8 percent shooting, then improved by limiting Chicago to 38.4.
> 
> Said Hibbert: “That’s my staple. If my offense isn’t going, I always have to play defense. That’s not gonna slack.”


----------



## R-Star

There's been quite a few times where its been a huge play for us. I always expect them to blow the whistle and never do. Its a legal play, but you all know how much some refs love to call any contact.

Hopefully they keep having it as a no call.


----------



## Knick Killer

Big win tonight against Portland to finally put us above .500. R-Stars boy Lance Stephenson was player of the game with 2 points in 23 minutes.


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----------



## R-Star

I'd try to slam Lance but hes had times where hes at the very least grown on me a little. I think for players like him who need to get hot and stay in the game, Vogels coaching system makes it tough to have that break out game a young guy like him needs.

Just look at Hansbrough. He comes in today and turns the whole pace of the game around, and Vogel thanks him by sending him to the bench and not bringing him back in until way later in the game. We're above .500 finally so I won't slam Frank tonight, but its frustrating me and I assume its frustrating everyone else.


----------



## Pacers Fan

I haven't been able to watch the past few games, but I see we're the Central Division leaders right now and we're over .500, which are both great considering how poor the season started out. We should be able to pretty easily win the Central Division and therefore the 4th seed this year.

And Hibbert had another terrible shooting night. 3-13? I can't believe a 7'2" guy is shooting under 40% still this season. At least he's been blocking some shots.


----------



## R-Star

Pacers Fan said:


> I haven't been able to watch the past few games, but I see we're the Central Division leaders right now and we're over .500, which are both great considering how poor the season started out. We should be able to pretty easily win the Central Division and therefore the 4th seed this year.
> 
> And Hibbert had another terrible shooting night. 3-13? I can't believe a 7'2" guy is shooting under 40% still this season. At least he's been blocking some shots.


Its strange because when you see him around the net, the shots that go in looked like the same old smooth Roy, and the ones that don't he looks rushed, or tries too much. He also tries a few mid range shots these days that I just hate seeing.


----------



## King Joseus

Pacers Fan said:


> I haven't been able to watch the past few games, *but I see we're the Central Division leaders right now* and we're over .500, which are both great considering how poor the season started out. We should be able to pretty easily win the Central Division and therefore the 4th seed this year.
> 
> And Hibbert had another terrible shooting night. 3-13? I can't believe a 7'2" guy is shooting under 40% still this season. At least he's been blocking some shots.


That'd be the Bulls, actually. 

Yeah, you guys should be able to win the division and I'm expecting as much. Definitely haven't been at your best yet, might start to see that as the season gets into January or thereabouts.


----------



## Pacers Fan

King Joseus said:


> That'd be the Bulls, actually.
> 
> Yeah, you guys should be able to win the division and I'm expecting as much. Definitely haven't been at your best yet, might start to see that as the season gets into January or thereabouts.


Hey, we were the leaders at the time of my post. At least we can say we've been the Central Division leader for around an hour this year.

I'm not writing off Milwaukee or Chicago just yet, though. The Bulls could go on a huge run to close the season when Rose comes back, and the Bucks have looked really good, at times, this year.


----------



## King Joseus

I think Hibbert'll get it together and him and George should be enough to keep you guys up there. I'm reluctant to trust the Bucks, but I hear you on them - they look really good when they're going well.

I expect the Bulls to end up around 45-47 wins or so, probably won't be enough to get the division but a lot hinges on when Rose comes back and how well he plays. It's at least better than a couple of years ago when the division wasn't all that competitive.


----------



## Gonzo

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=dallasmavericks&id=4693073&city=dallas



> Let’s just say Darren Collison didn’t do anything in Los Angeles to convince Rick Carlisle that it was a bad idea to give away the point guard’s starting job.
> 
> A moment early in the fourth quarter illustrated why the Mavs can’t trust Collison to run their team. His sloppy, careless pass was easily intercepted by Matt Barnes, leading to a fast-break opportunity for the Clippers that Barnes finished with a layup.
> 
> Carlisle responded by calling a timeout. The reason he wanted the break was to bench Collison, who was replaced by Dominique Jones with the Mavs trailing by 21 points.
> 
> Collison got back off the bench for garbage time. He committed another turnover on his first possession after checking back into the game.
> 
> Collison padded his point total during garbage time, but his line in the box score was still butt ugly: eight points,* two assists*, two rebounds, *four fouls* and * five turnovers* in 18 minutes. The Mavs were outscored by 24 with him on the floor, the worst plus-minus of any player.
> 
> By contrast, Fisher was the only Mav who finished with a positive plus-minus. Dallas outscored the Clippers by two points in Fisher’s 25 minutes, with the 38-year-old point guard scoring 15 points on 5-of-11 shooting.


----------



## R-Star

One game bro.


----------



## Gonzo

National television quality game tonight. Offense looks good.


----------



## R-Star

Lance is a ****ing drama queen.


----------



## Gonzo

Jinxed. Bad offense down the stretch.


----------



## Jace

Well, Roy. You had a nice career.


----------



## R-Star

Get out of my forum.


----------



## Jace

Lord, it was worse than I imagined. Russell is a freak, though. Could happen to the best of them. Hey, our C missed 3 dunks in two consecutive possessions last night. I'd say that was more embarrassing.


----------



## R-Star

Benching Augustin for Ben Hansbrough? Seems like a fool proof plan.....


----------



## Knick Killer

I forgot we kept that fool.


----------



## Pacers Fan

R-Star said:


> Benching Augustin for Ben Hansbrough? Seems like a fool proof plan.....


This is not the way to go. We may as well play Lance at backup PG and start Orlando Johnson.


----------



## R-Star

Pacers Fan said:


> This is not the way to go. We may as well play Lance at backup PG and start Orlando Johnson.


I'd be better with that. Or start Green and replace him with Orlando on the bench. But George seems to fit better at SF so probably best not to put him back to SG.


----------



## Pacers Fan

R-Star said:


> I'd be better with that. Or start Green and replace him with Orlando on the bench. But George seems to fit better at SF so probably best not to put him back to SG.


Too bad. Ben Hansbrough's a really bad basketball player for the NBA. Toughness only gets you so far, especially when you're 6'3". We're going to have to have Lance on the floor at all times with him. Hansbrough/Green/Young would be ugly. 

Oh well, this can't last too long, and hopefully it'll light a fire under Augustin. Maybe we'll get some brother chemistry in the pick & roll off the bench.


----------



## Marcus13

Went to my first game of the season last night (yeah, slacking) - man is Roy Hibbert hard to watch. Zeller was giving him fits (although that was in the process of fouling out of the game in probably 15 minutes of play) and he just wasn't moving up and down the floor well at all.

Needless to say, Paul George was very impressive. Ben Hansbrough also surprised me - I honestly thought he got a roster spot just because of his brother - but he looks to be a solid option to backup the Point.

Still not sure if the Pacers actually went out and won this game, or if Cleveland just literally gave it away because they couldnt have played any worse in the second half....but a W is a W.

I'll be back on the 26th when the Bulls come to town


----------



## R-Star

We all doubted George this season as a reliable #1 scorer since he was so inconsistent. But ever since his 0 point game he's looked like a legit #1 option for us. 

Hibbert has looked like Hibbert on defense and on the boards, and he's looked like Joel Anthony on offense. Its ****ing hard to watch. Something isn't right there, and someone needs to fix it.

What happens sometimes with players is the expectations from their big contract weigh on them and they start playing like shit. I'm starting to feel like that's the issue here. You don't just turn into shit on offense overnight like he has.


----------



## R-Star

Big game tonight. Here's hoping George can carry over his offensive play. 

Hopefully Roy figures it out on offense and Lance learns how to play D one of these days as well.


----------



## R-Star

Nevermind, games tomorrow.


----------



## Knick Killer

Didn't catch the game as my streaming website seems to not work on my work computer anymore(works perfectly at home but not here. anyone have any idea why?). Seems like George, Hibbert and Hill(triple double) all had an awesome night. I laughed when I saw Ben Hansbrough's stats for the night, in 8 minutes he didn't record a single stat. Anyways, big win and it looks like we're starting to come together a bit.


----------



## R-Star

Yep. And it all seemed to start with what seems to be Paul George breaking out. I missed the game as well, but it's nice to see a solid offensive stat line for Hibbert. Hopefully he caries it over.

This was an important win.


----------



## Gonzo

Went to the game last night thanks to some free tickets from the guys over on PacersDigest. 

Bench played pretty horrible, but George, Hill, and Hibbert played great. PG is really starting to look a lot more comfortable with the ball in his hands, constantly looking for his shot. Hibbert looked better, but he didn't really get his points with his post game, which is concerning. David West had a pretty rough game, missed a lot of shots he normally knocks down and even airballed one in the middle of the fourth.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> Went to the game last night thanks to some free tickets from the guys over on PacersDigest.
> 
> Bench played pretty horrible, but George, Hill, and Hibbert played great. PG is really starting to look a lot more comfortable with the ball in his hands, constantly looking for his shot. Hibbert looked better, but he didn't really get his points with his post game, which is concerning. David West had a pretty rough game, missed a lot of shots he normally knocks down and even airballed one in the middle of the fourth.


With West you know he'll bounce back, not like if you see Hibbert have an off game and know there's probably more to come.


It looks like right when myself and others were ready to write PG off as a #1 option he decided to start playing with a 1a mentality. I don't want to get too excited, but I sure hope he keeps it up. We all know he has it in him.


----------



## Gonzo




----------



## R-Star

Dang. That would have been a candidate for sure if he made that.

Whats Hawes mouthing off about?

"Way to dunk in my face you pussy!"


----------



## R-Star

One more good game from Hibbert and he should be averaging 10ppg this season. Hes currently at 9.9.


Dominant big man.


----------



## Luke

I don't know if I think Paul George is going to be a number one on a contender type of guy. I think he's really good, and he's been fun to watch in the few times I've seen him, but something about him screams 21/7/3 with good defense. Which is not a bad thing at all, he's a talented kid.

Anyone who watches the Pacers on a more consistent basis than me feel free to chime in.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Luke said:


> I don't know if I think Paul George is going to be a number one on a contender type of guy. I think he's really good, and he's been fun to watch in the few times I've seen him, but something about him screams 21/7/3 with good defense. Which is not a bad thing at all, he's a talented kid.
> 
> Anyone who watches the Pacers on a more consistent basis than me feel free to chime in.


I would be absolutely thrilled if Paul George ever averaged those numbers for an entire season.


----------



## Jace

17/6/3


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Pacers Fan said:


> I would be absolutely thrilled if Paul George ever averaged those numbers for an entire season.


:greatjob:
I agree.


----------



## R-Star

Jace said:


> 17/6/3


Meh, he's already averaging 17 while playing like garbage to start the season and having a 0 point game thrown in there.

I could easily see the 21 if he keeps up his current confidence. That's a huge if of course.


----------



## R-Star

Luke said:


> I don't know if I think Paul George is going to be a number one on a contender type of guy. I think he's really good, and he's been fun to watch in the few times I've seen him, but something about him screams 21/7/3 with good defense. Which is not a bad thing at all, he's a talented kid.
> 
> Anyone who watches the Pacers on a more consistent basis than me feel free to chime in.


The Pacers aren't built to need a 20+ scoring 1A. With Granger, George and West all reliable to go for 20 if need be (whoever's hot) and Hill able to consistently get around 15 a game, we're covered. You could throw Hibbert in the somewhere, but I'm pretty sure a Wizard cast a spell on him in the offseason or something.

As I have in the past, I compare this team to the early 00's Pistons. We win with our defense and have enough capable offensive weapons to stay in the game.


*Edit:* Guess I never answered your question did I? I'd agree with most of your stats. I'd say 21/7/4 with a block and a steal thrown in, with not good but great defense. Could easily seeing the point total go to around 23-25, but he hasn't shown the consistency for me to say something like that yet.


----------



## Knick Killer

I remember when we drafted George I was like "Who the **** is this guy?". He was the one of the few guys in the first round that I've never even heard of but now he's definitely made a name for himself. If you think about it, I don't think anyone has drafted better than us in the past couple of years(we'll just pretend that Plumlee pick didn't happen).


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> I remember when we drafted George I was like "Who the **** is this guy?". He was the one of the few guys in the first round that I've never even heard of but now he's definitely made a name for himself. If you think about it, I don't think anyone has drafted better than us in the past couple of years(we'll just pretend that Plumlee pick didn't happen).


We've done very good considering we've been picking outside the lotto. 

I hated the Plumlee pick and still am not sold on it, but who knows, I've been wrong before. We just seem to be dead set on picking up white hustle forwards for some reason hoping to get the next Foster.


----------



## 29380

Knick Killer said:


> I don't think anyone has drafted better than us in the past couple of years.


----------



## R-Star

Knicks4life said:


>


You could argue it. 

People talk about OKC and other teams, but we didn't have the easy job of drafting stars with top 5 picks for multiple years.


San Antonio has always been a system people look up to for drafting quality players with mid to late first rounders. But without Tim Duncan on the team I don't think they would have ever fared better than the Pacers record wise.


Point is its debatable.


----------



## Gonzo

I think Paul George is averaging something like 25+ the past 5 games, which is great for him.

On a team built like ours, 21/7/3 would be fantastic.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> I think Paul George is averaging something like 25+ the past 5 games, which is great for him.
> 
> On a team built like ours, 21/7/3 would be fantastic.


I'm just hoping he can keep it up once Granger is back and Paul has to get slide back to the 2.

It should be fine since he's ok guarding 2's. But if he keeps up this pace and all the sudden has issues once Granger comes back, then we have some decisions to make.


----------



## Knick Killer

Knicks4life said:


>


Considering where we've been picking, I don't see how anyone could argue that. 


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----------



## Jace

Just off the top of my head, Portland has to be in the discussion.


----------



## R-Star

Jace said:


> Just off the top of my head, Portland has to be in the discussion.


I'd agree with that.

As well as San An.


----------



## Jace

Houston could be up there if they actually developed their guys, at least their current stock.


----------



## Gonzo

https://twitter.com/NBA/status/280761110863437824



> Just Announced: @Paul_George24 (23.3ppg, 7rpg, 4.3apg) of @Pacers & @Dlee042 (22.8ppg, 12.5rpg) of @Warriors named NBA Players of the Week.


----------



## Gonzo

http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nba/1731/paul-george



> Paul George attributes his recent success to game-day workouts that include 300 to 400 extra shots and a full-body workout before tip-off.
> 
> Associate head coach Brian Shaw had been trying to get George to buy into the same game-day routine as Kobe Bryant, who Shaw played with and coached in L.A. The approach has worked like gangbusters, with George averaging 21.4 points, seven rebounds, 3.6 assists, 1.1 steals and a block per game in the month of December. Owners who held on to George despite a frustrating two months are being handsomely rewarded for their patience.
> Source: Indianapolis Star Dec 15 - 11:30 AM


----------



## Jace

Paul George is better than Jeremy Lin.


----------



## Knick Killer

Jace said:


> Paul George is better than Jeremy Lin.


Thanks captain obvious.


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----------



## Jace

There are people who would debate that.


----------



## Gonzo

http://sulia.com/channel/basketball/f/c96f0490-0bfe-4649-a3e3-e4c12bea38b1/?source=twitter



> The Thunder explored dealing James Harden to the Wizards for Bradley Beal and Chris Singleton. They also talked to the Warriors and Pacers, a league source says. If you're a Pacers' fan, would you have given up Paul George for Harden? If you were a Warriors' fan, would you have given up Steph Curry? Of course you would have. Now, what if you had to deal those guys without knowing if you could re-sign and keep Harden? Changes the equation just a little bit. Ultimately, the league source says it wasn't up to the Wizards, Pacers or Warriors to make the deal. The Thunder sent Harden to the Rockets because it brought back the best collection of assets.


Coming in to the season and after a few bad games from PG I'm sure some of us would have gone through with the deal. But after his December play thus far, I don't think I would give up Paul. Patience.


----------



## Pacers Fan

You better believe I would've given up Paul George for James Harden, and still would. Harden would be the perfect SG for our offense. He and Hill would be a perfect pair in the backcourt and it would allow Danny to play a little more off the ball.

The problem with this trade probably was that Harden didn't want to commit to an extension with us, we didn't want to shell out another max contract after we just paid Hibbert, or that OKC wanted George Hill or David West along with George.


----------



## Knick Killer

> Indiana Pacers power forward David West has the names memorized as if there will be a final exam: Kenyon Martin, Stromile Swift, Amare Stoudemire, Marcus Fizer, Drew Gooden.
> 
> West watched the NBA drafts in the years before he would be eligible and knew his playing style was different from his immediate predecessors at the position. He didn't play above the rim and he wasn't the quickest player on the court.
> 
> West didn't have to figure out his "flaws." NBA teams told him prior to the 2003 draft that he'd a marginal player in the league because he didn't fit the prototype of a modern NBA power forward.
> 
> "I never let any of that get to me, it just motivated me," said West, who has been surpassed at the position only by Stoudemire. "If you look around, most of those guys who could just fly out the roof dunking the ball are no longer in the league."
> 
> And West?
> 
> He's averaged double figures each of the past eight seasons, made two All-Star appearances, with possibility of being selected for a third this season.
> 
> West could easily stick his nose in the air and ask all his doubters, "How do you like me now?" But that's not his style.
> 
> "That's just never a part of me," West said as he shrugged his shoulders. "That's never appealed to me. I always felt like you just go out and play the game."
> 
> Center Roy Hibbert is the Pacers' highest paid player. Danny Granger is the longest tenured. George Hill is the hometown favorite. Paul George has the most potential. West, simply put, is the backbone of the team. He's been the Pacers' most consistent player this season, averaging 17.6 points and 8.3 rebounds a game.
> 
> "He just knows how to play the game," Pacers coach Frank Vogel said
> 
> ...


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2012/12/18/indiana-pacers-david-west-blossomed-as-nba-power-forward/1777745/

Pretty good article on David West and his career. Should read the rest of it if you have time.


----------



## Knick Killer

Ben Hansbroughs Stats tonight: 0 pts, 0 assists, 1 rebound in 7 minutes. 

This guy is a stud. 


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----------



## Jace

I didn't watch the game, and I'm assuming you did, but 7 minutes? Not a lot to judge a guy.


----------



## Luke

Oh, and to clarify my Paul George stat estimation earlier. That was a 21/7/3 in a vacuum and not taking offensive system into consideration. I don't think he could do that in Vogel's offense just like I think he could do more than that if he pans out correctly in a D'Antoni-like system with a great point guard. It was just a medium where I attempted to project roughly his value.

He's a fun kid to watch.


----------



## Gonzo

Ben Hansbrough injured his shoulder in the 2nd quarter.


----------



## Gonzo

Luke said:


> Oh, and to clarify my Paul George stat estimation earlier. That was a 21/7/3 in a vacuum and not taking offensive system into consideration. I don't think he could do that in Vogel's offense just like I think he could do more than that if he pans out correctly in a D'Antoni-like system with a great point guard. It was just a medium where I attempted to project roughly his value.
> 
> He's a fun kid to watch.


It will be interesting to see what happens when Granger comes back and see if he takes a back seat and spots up most of the time while PG continues to try to create shots. PG's shot off the dribble has become incredibly more consistent during the season, and his basket cuts are looking good. I think the offense is finally learning how to play around him, but that could all change when Granger gets back.


----------



## Knick Killer

Did not watch the game as they blocked my streaming site at work. I'm aware 7 minutes isn't a lot of time, but this isn't the first time his stat line has been filled with donuts.


----------



## Gonzo




----------



## Knick Killer

Gonzo said:


>


Smh act like you've been there before.


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----------



## R-Star

Gonzo, what do you think a courtside ticket in the playoffs would run for?


----------



## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> Gonzo, what do you think a courtside ticket in the playoffs would run for?


I like what you're thinking...


Anyways, David West took Anthony Davis to school tonight. Very deserving of an all-star selection this year.


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----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> I like what you're thinking...
> 
> 
> Anyways, David West took Anthony Davis to school tonight. Very deserving of an all-star selection this year.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


Agreed. 

I also had to laugh at Ryan Anderson. I always expect him to play like shit against us, and he never lets me down.


----------



## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> Gonzo, what do you think a courtside ticket in the playoffs would run for?


No idea maybe a grand. 

Let me know if you come to Indiana, we'll hit the bar. 


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----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> No idea maybe a grand.
> 
> Let me know if you come to Indiana, we'll hit the bar.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


Will do. This may happen.


----------



## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> Will do. This may happen.


You should fly your good friend from Winnipeg down to Indiana too. 


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----------



## Gonzo

Merry Christmas boys


----------



## Knick Killer

Thanks bro. Hope the rest of the Pacers family had an awesome Christmas and that R-Star got the Lance Stephenson jersey that he asked Santa for.


----------



## Gonzo




----------



## King Joseus

Season ending early?


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Tough game tonight, especially cause Chicago lost yesterday...We're better though and we got this.


----------



## R-Star

King Joseus said:


> Season ending early?


You're right, we shouldn't celebrate anything until we win the title. From now on our posts will consist of:

_"Pacers win another last night" Gonzo

"Careful brother. We may have won, but the season is not over yet." R-Star

"Correct. I apologize for my joy and optimism." Gonzo _


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> You should fly your good friend from Winnipeg down to Indiana too.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


This all sounds like its getting very expensive.


----------



## Gonzo

King Joseus said:


> Season ending early?


You're right, no one should celebrate being atop their division until the 82 game season is over.

Good game last night bro.


----------



## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> This all sounds like its getting very expensive.


Just give yourself some more money from the old business, talk to that accountant of yours.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> Just give yourself some more money from the old business, talk to that accountant of yours.


Already told the wife I'm thinking of going. If I throw in a "Oh, and there's this dude from Winnipeg I'm going to fly out there too. No, don't worry, we post on the internet together." I think my creepy meter would go through the roof with her.


----------



## Gonzo

Be sure to tell her what the Indiana boy looks like


----------



## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> Already told the wife I'm thinking of going. If I throw in a "Oh, and there's this dude from Winnipeg I'm going to fly out there too. No, don't worry, we post on the internet together." I think my creepy meter would go through the roof with her.


I'm sure she'll understand.


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> I'm sure she'll understand.


She just walked int the room and said "Why is there a picture of our son on your stupid message board?"

To which I replied by talking about how a guy from Winnipeg wanted me to fly him out if I go to the playoffs. She left the room pretty quick after that.


----------



## King Joseus

You can celebrate whatever you want, but when the trio of Milwaukee/Indy/Chicago has been trading places for most of the season it shouldn't really be a big deal if you have less than a game's lead. A few games? Maybe.

It's not really a big deal, just thought it was a bit silly. Should I post the standings if the Bulls win tonight?

As for the only celebrating when you win a title thing, nah, that's not it either; but it's not like you're a team that's years removed from postseason play or relevance to the point where being in 1st (by half! a game) should get you excited at all either. Again, though, do whatever makes you happy. Just thought it was odd.


----------



## Gonzo

It's past your bedtime in China.

This is the first time we've been first in the Central all year bub. And it isn't a big deal, I didn't know that posting an update of the standings was a celebration. Next time I'm gonna go all out Chinese style and get some ****ing fireworks for your sour ass.


----------



## King Joseus

R-Star said:


> You're right, we shouldn't *celebrate* anything until we win the title. From now on our posts will consist of:
> 
> _"Pacers win another last night" Gonzo
> 
> "Careful brother. We may have won, but the season is not over yet." R-Star
> 
> "Correct. I apologize for my joy and optimism." Gonzo _





Gonzo said:


> You're right, no one should *celebrate* being atop their division until the 82 game season is over.
> 
> Good game last night bro.


I used your words, not mine. Still not really a big deal. I tend to be more even keeled than most when it comes to most things, though, so maybe that's coloring my judgment.


----------



## King Joseus

Also: No classes tomorrow = no bedtime.


----------



## R-Star

The Pacers have turned a shitty first quarter of the season around and are now playing the ball we expected them to. We're allowed to acknowledge that with each other.

The Bulls are the polar opposite, while the Pacers underachieved, the Bulls have far overachieved and I think we all know reality will set in soon. I think that's why you're being grouchy here.


----------



## King Joseus

Not really, you're not going to find any (non-idiot) Bulls fan that expected us to be anything but .500 or worse without Rose. If anything, I need some sleep. But yeah, we're absolutely overachieving. Who cares, though? This season doesn't really matter without Rose, and won't really matter if he comes back and isn't yet himself. You'll find most of us are generally surprised with our record at this point (with a few outcasts having predicted doom and gloom all year and loving these bad games).

I've got no beef with you folks, I just found it a bit odd.


----------



## Gonzo

King Joseus said:


> I used your words, not mine. Still not really a big deal. I tend to be more even keeled than most when it comes to most things, though, so maybe that's coloring my judgment.


Ok we said celebrate in a sarcasm post. 

I wouldn't call it a celebration, it's more of a recognition.

Kind of like how the Clippers got their own thread in the NBA forum for having the best record in the league currently. That thread should have definitely waited until the end of the season. Why don't you go spoil the party over there and close the thread.


----------



## King Joseus

I don't really care about the Clippers. The Pacers are somewhat interesting, though. I'm going to bed.


----------



## R-Star

King Joseus said:


> I don't really care about the Clippers. The Pacers are somewhat interesting, though. I'm going to bed.


Before we _put_ you to bed. And by that I mean cut you, not like put you to bed in a romantic fashion. No. But like hey lets ****ing cut that guy for trying to rain on our parade sort of thing.


----------



## Dornado

I don't think the Bulls are overachievers by any measure... we were 18-9 without Rose last year... our bench is worse than it was, we struggle to score without our star... we're 15-12 or something... about what I expected, honestly. R-Star is the only one I've heard tout the "overachiever" narrative.


----------



## R-Star

Dornado said:


> I don't think the Bulls are overachievers by any measure... we were 18-9 without Rose last year... our bench is worse than it was, we struggle to score without our star... we're 15-12 or something... about what I expected, honestly. R-Star is the only one I've heard tout the "overachiever" narrative.


Most sports annalists have used it, as well as many posters around here pre season.


You have Noah, Boozer and Deng, who are all quality role players. Outside of that the teams pretty junk until Rose is back.


----------



## Gonzo

Well the game is PPD


----------



## Knick Killer

Was disappointed to see the game postponed. I love when we play Chicago.


----------



## Knick Killer

Well boys since we technically don't have a Pacers mod anymore, guess there's no rules in the Pacers forum now. 


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----------



## Knick Killer

Big win over the Grizz. **** yeah


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----------



## Gonzo

Haven't seen a Pacer game in a while, **** the holidays


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----------



## Gonzo

Why aren't you mod anymore, KK?


----------



## Knick Killer

Gonzo said:


> Why aren't you mod anymore, KK?


To make a long story short, Ron pissed me off so I decided to share my opinion on how pathetic of an administrator I think he is. He got pussy hurt so he removed me as a mod and he's too stubborn to reinstate me even though several others disagreed with his decision.

There's no point being a mod anyways. This place is being run into the ground by a bunch of idiots. 





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----------



## Knick Killer

Guess I didn't really make a long story short...


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----------



## Basel

Knick Killer said:


> To make a long story short, Ron pissed me off so I decided to share my opinion on how pathetic of an administrator I think he is. He got pussy hurt so he removed me as a mod and he's too stubborn to reinstate me even though several others disagreed with his decision.
> 
> There's no point being a mod anyways. This place is being run into the ground by a bunch of idiots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


Let's calm down, KK. If not for Ron, at least do it for those of us who were trying to get you back. You're making me look bad right now. -___-


----------



## Knick Killer

Basel said:


> Let's calm down, KK. If not for Ron, at least do it for those of us who were trying to get you back. You're making me look bad right now. -___-


He told me he never wants me to be a mod again so why should I act all cool about it? But you're right I apologize.


----------



## Basel

You can be upset and still do it in a different way.


----------



## Gonzo




----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Make me a mod again..I have, nor will I ever disrespect anyone here.

Only reason why I was taken out was because of my inactivity, but I'll be around on a consistent basis if need be.


----------



## Gonzo

Frank Vogel signed a contract extension today. 
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/pacers-sign-vogel-extension



> INDIANAPOLIS – The Indiana Pacers announced Monday they have signed head coach Frank Vogel to a contract extension. Per team policy, no terms were revealed.
> 
> 
> Vogel is in his third year as Pacers coach after taking over on Jan. 30, 2011. Going into Tuesday night’s home game with Miami, Vogel has coached exactly 100 games, compiling a 62-38 record. Last season, the Pacers had a 42-24 record, fifth best in the NBA and reached the Eastern Conference Semifinals before losing to eventual NBA champion Miami.
> 
> 
> "This is a good deal for Frank and the franchise," said Pacers President of Basketball Operations Donnie Walsh. "Frank has done a great job turning our team around since he became coach and deserves the chance to continue the work he and his staff have started."
> 
> 
> Said Vogel, “I’m honored that Donnie, Kevin (General Manager Pritchard) and Mr. Simon (owner Herb Simon) have such belief and faith in me to be their coach in the foreseeable future. We’ve established a great connection with our community the last two years, both on and off the court and I look forward to continuing that."


I wonder how we would have reacted about a month ago.

Also, Sam Young is gone (bummed ankle) and we picked up a dude named Dominic McGuire for 10 days (no bummed ankle)


----------



## Pacers Fan

I'm disappointed we cut Sam, but we were going to have to guarantee his contract soon. McGuire's kind of like a bigger Young, a solid rebounder and defender who keeps bouncing around because of his effort. Although, he can't shoot at all. I'd probably rather still have Young, but at least this opens a few minutes for OJ and we never again have to see Sam Young at SG.


----------



## Knick Killer

PaCeRhOLiC said:


> Make me a mod again..I have, nor will I ever disrespect anyone here.
> 
> Only reason why I was taken out was because of my inactivity, but I'll be around on a consistent basis if need be.


Hell no. Making you a mod of the Pacers board would be an insult to the four of us that have kept this place alive (R-Star, Gonzo, Pacers Fan, and myself). You shouldn't be able to just come back out of nowhere asking to be a mod again when you haven't done a damn thing for this place in years. I understand this team went through some really shitty years but last season was our best season since Reggie left and you were rarely if ever around.


----------



## Knick Killer

Bad luck for Sam Young, but this is a business. McGuire played a bit for the Raptors earlier this year and he was decent so whatever no complaints.

And as much as we criticize Vogel, I think he's proven he's worthy of an extension. I wouldn't of said that a month or so ago, and I'm still not his #1 fan, but as of right now he's the right guy for the job.


----------



## Jamel Irief

Basel said:


> Let's calm down, KK. If not for Ron, at least do it for those of us who were trying to get you back. You're making me look bad right now. -___-


Eh, just so you know, in the past the admins got together and decided to strip his powers. It was during the Kobe assault trial and he was editing anyone that had a negative opinion, when they complained to him he threatened to ban/suspend him. Ron doesn't like being challenged. 

They did let him keep his "site founder" status to stroke his giant ego.


----------



## R-Star

I didn't love Sam Young, but he was a nice spark every once in a while and I feel bad for him. I hope he finds a team he can stick on and make a decent career.

As far as Vogel, there's still things that drive me insane, but you can't argue our recent streak. If I was him I would have pushed a re-up during that period. We play amazing on defense and terrible on offense, I hope Granger helps change that, but its something I don't see changing any time soon.


----------



## R-Star

And as far as mod/admin/whatever, its not like we really need it. There's only a handful of us posting on the Pacers forum. If anyone comes in here and posts shit we don't like we've been able to run them off by just ganging up and acting like dicks. 

Its the real way to moderate a forum. "You better watch it or I might edit your post!"? Nah. I say "Hey buddy, **** you, get the **** out of my Pacers forum."


----------



## Gonzo

I have a feeling we're going to get shown up at home tonight. Heat will come out with too much intensity.


----------



## R-Star

Sure hope not. I hate losing to them. If we can pull out a win it would be a huge moral booster for the team.

I think if we can pull some of what we had in the playoffs and absolutely shut down Wade, we can take this game.


I'm not expecting a win, but as always I think there's a shot. We're a good enough team that I think we can win against any team on any given night if we play to our strengths. 


Then again if Lebron decides to go crazy, there's not a god damn thing anyone in the world can do to stop him.


----------



## Gonzo

We've got a shot, but every game we lose to the Heat we get outplayed in the first quarter and they put it on cruise. Need to start hot, which is worrisome with our offense.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> We've got a shot, but every game we lose to the Heat we get outplayed in the first quarter and they put it on cruise. Need to start hot, which is worrisome with our offense.


Counting on our offense for anything this year is worrisome. 


The ideal game would see Hibbert put up big numbers once again. Would be nice, but I'm not going to count on it.


----------



## Gonzo

Hibbert's wrist is still hurting from playing with himself too much.


----------



## Jamel Irief

R-Star said:


> And as far as mod/admin/whatever, its not like we really need it. There's only a handful of us posting on the Pacers forum. If anyone comes in here and posts shit we don't like we've been able to run them off by just ganging up and acting like dicks.
> 
> Its the real way to moderate a forum. "You better watch it or I might edit your post!"? Nah. I say "Hey buddy, **** you, get the **** out of my Pacers forum."


Lance Stephenson sucks.

No for real, I like your policy, maybe Drizzay can make this his Kobe bashing forum since he doesn't have the Laker board anymore?


----------



## Knick Killer

Jamel Irief said:


> Eh, just so you know, in the past the admins got together and decided to strip his powers. It was during the Kobe assault trial and he was editing anyone that had a negative opinion, when they complained to him he threatened to ban/suspend him. Ron doesn't like being challenged.
> 
> They did let him keep his "site founder" status to stroke his giant ego.


Well no offense to the admins, but nobody other than Basel does a damn thing around here so unfortunately I don't see any of them stepping up and doing that again. 

Ron doesn't have the respect of many people on here so it's really sad to see people let him call the shots and slowly drag this place down. 


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----------



## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> And as far as mod/admin/whatever, its not like we really need it. There's only a handful of us posting on the Pacers forum. If anyone comes in here and posts shit we don't like we've been able to run them off by just ganging up and acting like dicks.
> 
> Its the real way to moderate a forum. "You better watch it or I might edit your post!"? Nah. I say "Hey buddy, **** you, get the **** out of my Pacers forum."


Agreed. The 3 Man Band keeps this place in check. 


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----------



## Jamel Irief

Knick Killer said:


> Well no offense to the admins, but nobody other than Basel does a damn thing around here so unfortunately I don't see any of them stepping up and doing that again.
> 
> Ron doesn't have the respect of many people on here so it's really sad to see people let him call the shots and slowly drag this place down.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


Problem is by people you mean vertical scope or whatever, and they don't care. Basel has some sense and is actually a civil admin who cares about the site first, but he's only one person. 

Take it from me, you don't want to be a mod anyways. You can build this board as easily as a poster, and you can call the crappy leaders on their shit. It's important to give props to the good leaders too so you're not just a blowhard. We have a couple. 


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----------



## Knick Killer

Miami's big 3 did well, but luckily nobody else contributed a damn thing. Holding the Heat to 77 points is one heck of an accomplishment as well. Paul George is also making a strong case for himself to make the all-star team. I'd love to see him make it. 


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----------



## Gonzo

Maybe Paul's best game of his career. As Austin Croshere put it, he's scored that many points, hit that many shots, etc. before, but not with LeBron James guarding him or having to guard LeBron on the other end.

Oh and I'll leave Roy Hibbert's shot chart right here


----------



## Knick Killer

No Carmelo tonight.


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----------



## R-Star

I'm going to miss part of the game tonight. Pisses me off.


----------



## Gonzo

Better not say this game is very winnable, don't want to piss any Knicks fans off like Granger did last year.


----------



## R-Star

**** the Knicks.


----------



## Knick Killer

Gonzo said:


> Better not say this game is very winnable, don't want to piss any Knicks fans off like Granger did last year.


This game is very winnable. 


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----------



## Gonzo




----------



## R-Star

**** yea Ian.


----------



## Knick Killer

Offense is overrated.


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----------



## Gonzo

I really like Paul George at the 3 spot, we've yet to see him play shooting guard (has he?) this year, but he is just so much faster than other small forwards out there it seems like a better matchup for us. Going to be interesting to see when Granger comes back where he fits in. Considering how difficult rotations are for Vogel, I wouldn't be surprised to see us drop a few games while he's experimenting.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> I really like Paul George at the 3 spot, we've yet to see him play shooting guard (has he?) this year, but he is just so much faster than other small forwards out there it seems like a better matchup for us. Going to be interesting to see when Granger comes back where he fits in. Considering how difficult rotations are for Vogel, I wouldn't be surprised to see us drop a few games while he's experimenting.


Yep. I think he may just be too big and not a good enough ball handler to be a top 2 guard in the league. Much better suited for the 3, which is going to leave us with a big decision to make once Grangers back.

We'll try him back at the 2 and put Lance back to the bench, but I agree we're going to drop some games figuring this out.


----------



## Gonzo

Can't believe I'm asking this, but Vogel for East All-Star coach?


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> Can't believe I'm asking this, but Vogel for East All-Star coach?


Spoelstra, Voges or Woodson. The Pacers are one of the hottest teams in the league right now, and the Knicks have surprised. So either coach would be a likely pick. That being said Miami has the best record and are the defending champs.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Gonzo said:


> I really like Paul George at the 3 spot, we've yet to see him play shooting guard (has he?) this year, but he is just so much faster than other small forwards out there it seems like a better matchup for us. Going to be interesting to see when Granger comes back where he fits in. Considering how difficult rotations are for Vogel, I wouldn't be surprised to see us drop a few games while he's experimenting.


Yep, exactly what I was thinking last night. I'll give Paul his due for improving over the summer, but switching to the 3 where he's quicker than everyone and doesn't have to worry about shorter players stripping him has definitely been a benefit. Even though we might start the game off with George/Granger at the 2/3, I wouldn't be surprised if Lance continued to get minutes and we slid Granger to the 4 in the 2nd quarter. Someone has to be the odd man out, and I'm hoping that doesn't have to be Granger this off season.


----------



## R-Star

Pacers Fan said:


> Yep, exactly what I was thinking last night. I'll give Paul his due for improving over the summer, but switching to the 3 where he's quicker than everyone and doesn't have to worry about shorter players stripping him has definitely been a benefit. Even though we might start the game off with George/Granger at the 2/3, I wouldn't be surprised if Lance continued to get minutes and we slid Granger to the 4 in the 2nd quarter. Someone has to be the odd man out, and I'm hoping that doesn't have to be Granger this off season.


If you have to pick the odd man out between George, Granger and Stephenson, its a pretty damn easy pick.

If its only between George and Granger, thats when it gets difficult.


----------



## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> If you have to pick the odd man out between George, Granger and Stephenson, its a pretty damn easy pick.
> 
> If its only between George and Granger, thats when it gets difficult.


C'mon admit it...you're starting to love Lance Stephenson.


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----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> C'mon admit it...you're starting to love Lance Stephenson.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


When he plays in the system and isn't trying Rucker moves, sure. As a reserve. 


I don't like Lance as a starter. He isn't a good defender, and far too often he tries to insert himself offensively and it stifles us.


----------



## Luke

Paul George is awesome. Such a fun guy to watch.


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----------



## Luke

I also agree that he's a three. 


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----------



## Gonzo

Not the end of the season yet, but take a look at this:

Team/year/Opponents FG%

1.	San Antonio Spurs	1998-99	.402
2.	New York Knicks 1998-99	.403
3.	San Antonio Spurs	2003-04	.409
4.	Miami Heat 1998-99	.411
5.	San Antonio Spurs	1997-98	.411
*6. Indiana Pacers 2012-13 .412*
7. Houston Rockets	2003-04	.412
7.	Detroit Pistons	2003-04 .413

Thanks to PacersDigest 
http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthr...s-have-the-6th-best-FG-defense-in-NBA-history


----------



## R-Star

I want to get excited but it feels like jinxing the team. 

I'd say George and Hibbert both merit serious consideration for All-Defense teams this year.


----------



## Luke

Is Roy still playing doo doo offense? I caught they're televised game the other night at a party but I was drunk and not paying that close of attention. This team is going to be interesting if granger comes back healthy and Vogel can make him and George play well together. I will say that I do not understand the drama around lance Stephenson though, he does not look special by any means.


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----------



## R-Star

Lance sucks. 

As far as Hibberts offense, its been terrible. His defense has been arguable as league best for big men in my opinion, but his offense is also almost league worst for starting big men. He's shown a few games where he goes off like a #1 offensive weapon, then he follows it up with like 4 point games. Its upsetting. Supposedly he has a wrist injury stemming from the playoffs last year. 

As far as Granger, I might be paranoid but I'm afraid we get worse when he comes back, due to it screwing with chemistry. He'll then be blamed for us losing and be traded in the offseason.


----------



## Luke

From what I understand Roy's offense has sucked because he's been trying to do too much and get fancy with mid range shots, so a wrist injury would make sense. And I'm sure they'll struggle initially but it's on Vogel to try and implement his two best offensive players. I will say that Roy isn't better defensively than a guy like chandler, but he's always been a good defender from what I've seen.


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----------



## Pacers Fan

Luke said:


> Is Roy still playing doo doo offense? I caught they're televised game the other night at a party but I was drunk and not paying that close of attention. This team is going to be interesting if granger comes back healthy and Vogel can make him and George play well together. I will say that I do not understand the drama around lance Stephenson though, he does not look special by any means.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


Lance is pretty mediocre, but that's about all I wanted out of him. He's improved a lot and can hit the open 3, break down almost anyone in the NBA, and act as a pseudo-PG when he's on the floor, which are all helpful. Unfortunately, he still has a poor basketball IQ, is slow, and plays poor defense. He doesn't try to do too much anymore, so sometimes it's nice to have another guy on the floor with Hill who can handle the ball and make solid passes.

Hibbert's no Chandler or Dwight Howard on defense, but he's damn good at everything except defending the pick & roll.


----------



## Gonzo

Pacers Fan said:


> Lance is pretty mediocre, but that's about all I wanted out of him. He's improved a lot and can hit the open 3, break down almost anyone in the NBA, and act as a pseudo-PG when he's on the floor, which are all helpful. Unfortunately, he still has a poor basketball IQ, is slow, and plays poor defense. He doesn't try to do too much anymore, so sometimes it's nice to have another guy on the floor with Hill who can handle the ball and make solid passes.
> 
> Hibbert's no Chandler or Dwight Howard on defense, but he's damn good at everything except defending the pick & roll.


Lance is the fastest guy on our team with the ball, so he's anything but slow. Maybe slow footed on defense or slow mentally, but dude speeds on fast breaks.

He's also one of the few guys on our team that can create his own shot, I just hope he doesn't go full-on Barbosa mode when he gets back to the bench squad.

He's pretty mediocre and takes too many shots probably, but I've always kind of gone with Bird's word that he's the most talented player on this team. He also is still in contact with Bird, so that's a good thing. Didn't expect anything from him this season, so I've been pleasantly surprised. Having low expectations leads to pleasant surprises even if he does do some bone headed things. Not really sure why he gets so much flak from everyone else, but I guess they want him to be as good as a Dwayne Wade or Kobe Bryant. We'll take all the points we can get from him, and he's shooting better than anyone else on the team so I'd say he's playing decent.

Roy Hibbert is one of the most frustrating players in the game today I think. I have not seen many good offensive moves from him at all on the block this year, strange considering we saw so many last year. 

Here's some more info on the injury I found, I couldn't remember if I dreamt it up or it was real.


> Missing three out of every five shots you take isn’t good for anyone, but it brings some unwanted attention to the recent recipient of a $58-million dollar contract. The spotlight gets even brighter when that players’ team is missing it’s leading scorer and struggling offensively.
> 
> Saturday, Mike Wells of the Indianapolis Star shed some light on what is likely a contributing factor in Hibbert’s struggles, when he reported that the Georgetown product had a wrist injury,
> 
> *“I haven’t had any power in my right wrist,” Hibbert said. “So my hand has been basically a stub.”*
> 
> The injury traces back to last May’s playoff series vs. the Heat, but the severity of the issue was only determined recently.
> 
> The team’s medical staff determined Dec. 14 that there was a significant problem with his wrist.
> “It doesn’t hurt. It just has weakness,” Hibbert said. “Things were just out of whack. I was getting the shots I wanted with my right hand, but a few would go completely off track. So my touch was basically gone. That’s why I was shooting more shots with my left hand in the post.”
> 
> Hibbert has been getting treatment on his wrist on a regular basis since the injury was revealed.
> After spending most of the season shooting below 40 percent from the field, Hibbert went into Saturday having shot at least 50 percent from the field in four of the past five games.


http://www.indystar.com/article/201...ebook-Hibbert-puts-shooting-woes-wrist-injury

Thanks for waiting until after your contract signing to tell us buddy!


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> Lance is the fastest guy on our team with the ball, so he's anything but slow. Maybe slow footed on defense or slow mentally, but dude speeds on fast breaks.
> 
> He's also one of the few guys on our team that can create his own shot, I just hope he doesn't go full-on Barbosa mode when he gets back to the bench squad.
> 
> He's pretty mediocre and takes too many shots probably, but I've always kind of gone with Bird's word that he's the most talented player on this team. He also is still in contact with Bird, so that's a good thing. Didn't expect anything from him this season, so I've been pleasantly surprised. Having low expectations leads to pleasant surprises even if he does do some bone headed things. Not really sure why he gets so much flak from everyone else, but I guess they want him to be as good as a Dwayne Wade or Kobe Bryant. We'll take all the points we can get from him, and he's shooting better than anyone else on the team so I'd say he's playing decent.
> 
> Roy Hibbert is one of the most frustrating players in the game today I think. I have not seen many good offensive moves from him at all on the block this year, strange considering we saw so many last year.
> 
> Here's some more info on the injury I found, I couldn't remember if I dreamt it up or it was real.
> 
> 
> http://www.indystar.com/article/201...ebook-Hibbert-puts-shooting-woes-wrist-injury
> 
> Thanks for waiting until after your contract signing to tell us buddy!


No kidding. 



Roy Hibbert said:


> "Yea, my wrist has been ****ed since the playoffs with Miami, didn't you know? Oh that's right, I didn't tell anyone because I wanted a max contract, that's right I forgot."


----------



## Pacers Fan

Yeh, I meant he's slow laterally. Lance is probably faster with the ball than he is without it.


----------



## hobojoe

Paul George (flu) out tonight per Rotowire.


----------



## R-Star

Well that is disheartening news. Hopefully a big game from one of Hill, West or Hibbert.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Or Lance Stephenson.


----------



## Gonzo




----------



## R-Star

Well of course Lance is going to have a huge game, I'm just hoping someone else can contribute.


----------



## Gonzo

Hibbert isn't even getting the tips anymore.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> Hibbert isn't even getting the tips anymore.


Nope. Noticed that too.


----------



## R-Star

Awesome start. 

I like when we start a game off strong.


----------



## R-Star

At least Lance Stephenson isn't the worst starter out there right now though.

Thanks Dominic "No Freethrows" McGuire.


----------



## Gonzo

Paul George 4 MVP?


----------



## Knick Killer

McGuire got cut by the Craptors earlier this year so that says a lot about the guy. 


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----------



## Gonzo

I'm glad someone else calls them the Craptors.


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> McGuire got cut by the Craptors earlier this year so that says a lot about the guy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


Goes to show just how set in the bench Vogel is that he refuses to bring Green up.


----------



## Gonzo

I think Green is gelling pretty well with the bench right now.


----------



## Gonzo

Triple double from West.


----------



## R-Star

Nice win tonight. Could have been one of those games where we lose to a shitty team and just use the "Paul George was out" type of excuses. 


Tied for wins now in the East boys. The team is really turning things around.


----------



## Knick Killer

I know we played the Bobcats but scoring 96 points without George and Granger is pretty impressive. 


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----------



## R-Star

For us especially. I only saw the first half but Lance seemed to be playing well, and our bench really impressed me. Augustin seems to finally be comfortable with his role which surprises me since I thought the benching would go the other way for him. Green was playing stellar and not chucking, and Orlando surprised me on both ends on a few plays. 


With the current win streak its reminding me how excited this team was to watch last year.


----------



## Gonzo

Go Lance!


----------



## Gonzo




----------



## R-Star

Those are ****ing great. Anyone who doesn't love Ian is a dick.


----------



## Gonzo

Something happened to Lance's foot, rejoice R-Star.


----------



## R-Star

****ing loss.


----------



## Gonzo

31-12 FTA

We're not great at getting to the line, but that's borderline default NBA 2k sliders. Refs sucked.


----------



## Gonzo

Liking what little I've seen tonight. It's Charlotte but our team looks focused, even on offense.


----------



## R-Star

First game I've missed in a while. Glad we picked up another win.

The top 4 in the East right now is becoming very apparent.


----------



## R-Star

Granger back in early/mid Feb?

Good thing or bad thing for us?


----------



## Knick Killer

God only knows. Paul George will be affected by it the most.


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----------



## R-Star

Yep. Defensively we go from best in the league to that much better. Offensively I don't know.


----------



## Gonzo

Knick Killer not mod again, wtf.

I've already made my comments about Granger clear. He's an obvious improvement over Stephenson, but I think Paul George works best at the 3 spot. He's just that much faster and agile than other 3's, but he's pretty average at shooting guard. His ball handling is no where near what it needs to be to be an effective 2 guard.

As far as who gets the most shots, hopefully it's still George, but I'm assuming we'll continue with the "whoever's hot" offense. Down the stretch in an important game or Playoff game, we'll probably still go to Granger, but I wouldn't be surprised to see George get the ball too. The ball in David West's hands might be better than both of those.

We'll have to see, but I don't think that Danny fits in with the team position wise. Wouldn't be surprised if we try to ship him this summer.

I would love to see Hansbrough gone before the deadline, we don't want to have to deal with that contract this summer. He's not worth 4 mil.


----------



## Knick Killer

I'm not allowed to have my own opinion so I got removed apparently lol.

Anyways, I don't think Granger is going to ruin our momentum or anything. He's still our best scorer and a reliable defender(or he was at least before his injury). We might struggle for our first couple of games but I fully expect us to be ready to go by the playoffs.


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----------



## Gonzo

This game is disappointing so far.


----------



## R-Star

Why is Hansbrough still in? Hes not doing anything other than running around poking people in the eye.

**** this, I'm going to bed.


----------



## clownskull

well, all in all- i am still happy with how the team has been playing. to be near 10 games over .500 is pretty amazing as far as i'm concerned. 
there will be disappointing moments like last night but i think when granger returns, we can put lance in the bench role to give us some greater stability there will be a nice addition.


----------



## Knick Killer

clownskull said:


> well, all in all- i am still happy with how the team has been playing. to be near 10 games over .500 is pretty amazing as far as i'm concerned.
> there will be disappointing moments like last night but i think when granger returns, we can put lance in the bench role to give us some greater stability there will be a nice addition.


Yup we have no reason to complain about our record. It's funny looking back at our posts after the first couple of games to see how much we've improved. 


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----------



## Gonzo

If we win tonight, we get to 25 wins. It will be the halfway point of the season and halfway to a goal of 50 wins. And yes I stole that from the telecast.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> If we win tonight, we get to 25 wins. It will be the halfway point of the season and halfway to a goal of 50 wins. And yes I stole that from the telecast.


Well we got there.

Saw most of the game. Was a thing of beauty to see George dominate on offense, and make James Harden his bitch on defense. 

MIP and all defensive team this year if he were more popular.


----------



## Knick Killer

Just bought this beauty of a shirt on eBay yesterday. I will now have the perfect shirt to wear for when we play New York.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/REGGIE-MILLER-CHOKE-t-shirt-spike-knicks-S-M-L-XL-2XL?item=221178217805&cmd=ViewItem&_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D5%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5012429810179305974


----------



## Luke

So what's the optimism level around these parts? You guys, along with New York seem like Miami's only real obstacles in the east at this point. I haven't seen anyone throw out championship hopes on here so I'm curious.


----------



## BobStackhouse42

It wouldn't be impossible for this team to beat Miami with a healthy and rested Granger I don't think. George Hill could be the difference in that series.


----------



## Gonzo

Knick Killer said:


> Just bought this beauty of a shirt on eBay yesterday. I will now have the perfect shirt to wear for when we play New York.
> 
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/REGGIE-MILLER-CHOKE-t-shirt-spike-knicks-S-M-L-XL-2XL?item=221178217805&cmd=ViewItem&_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D5%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5012429810179305974


That shirt is awesome.

As far as championship hopes, I think we're pretty excited for the Playoffs, but we have to get through the Bulls, Heat and Knicks. Our offense is just the only thing I get worried about in a 7 game series. If we can pick up the 2nd seed and play Miami in the Conference Finals that would obviously be ideal.


----------



## Pacers Fan

I think our offense will at least get to a mediocre level whenever Granger returns and gets his shot back. That's not a great expectation, but it's better than being one of the worst offenses in the league. Theoretically this team has the pieces to make a deep run. I'd say a championship is a very long shot, but it's possible. I just wish we could rely on our bench for anything. They suck on both ends of the court.


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> Just bought this beauty of a shirt on eBay yesterday. I will now have the perfect shirt to wear for when we play New York.
> 
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/REGGIE-MILLER-CHOKE-t-shirt-spike-knicks-S-M-L-XL-2XL?item=221178217805&cmd=ViewItem&_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D5%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5012429810179305974


Saw that one before. Its a classic.


----------



## Gonzo

Pacers Fan said:


> I think our offense will at least get to a mediocre level whenever Granger returns and gets his shot back. That's not a great expectation, but it's better than being one of the worst offenses in the league. Theoretically this team has the pieces to make a deep run. I'd say a championship is a very long shot, but it's possible. I just wish we could rely on our bench for anything. They suck on both ends of the court.


When we get Granger back to 30+ mins a game that will significantly relieve guys like Gerald Green. Lance moving to the bench can potentially provide a spark considering he plays pretty hard. He can also create his shot at times so that will help him in that group, Chris, Quin, and Austin say that Stephenson is a good passer as well, I don't see it but they watch more than I do. If Vogel wants to do it, Granger can also take some minutes away from Hansbrough at the 4 spot, and that could improve our defense.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Gonzo said:


> When we get Granger back to 30+ mins a game that will significantly relieve guys like Gerald Green. Lance moving to the bench can potentially provide a spark considering he plays pretty hard. He can also create his shot at times so that will help him in that group, Chris, Quin, and Austin say that Stephenson is a good passer as well, I don't see it but they watch more than I do. If Vogel wants to do it, Granger can also take some minutes away from Hansbrough at the 4 spot, and that could improve our defense.


It will be helpful reducing minutes for Green unless he's hot, but I don't think Lance will be much of a spark off the bench. Granted he's been playing with the starters, but he's averaging 8 ppg this year and his defense is significantly worse than his offense. I like his game quite a bit, but he doesn't give me that "spark" kind of vibe. I suppose it will be helpful having two players off the bench who can create their own shot, rather than one. Lance is a pretty good passer for a 2 guard. For a PG, he's probably right on par with George Hill in the passing department, maybe even better. I've seen him make difficult bullet and bounce passes, and he seems pretty good at moving the ball around the floor. He's just not the kind of guy you'll get a hockey assist from because his game is still predominantly 1-on-1.

As for playing Obie-ball, I definitely wouldn't mind it in stretches. We could really bother teams by running a Hill-Green-George-Granger-Mahinmi kind of lineup because we'll have size advantages at every position except the 4.


----------



## Gonzo

He's scoring 8 pts on close to 50% shooting. It will probably drop back down to reality around 40, but I could see him continuing to average around 8. He won't have as good of defenders on him and he will have more of a chance to score. Gerald Green doesn't really strike me as a player we want on the floor during the Playoffs, especially with Stephenson already out there. Those two guys would combine for the lowest IQ in the league. 

I want Paul George to play as much three spot as possible. Maybe even sprinkle in Augustine and move Hill to shooting guard, the lineup of DJ/Hill/George/Granger/Hibbert could score.


----------



## clownskull

Gonzo said:


> He's scoring 8 pts on close to 50% shooting. It will probably drop back down to reality around 40, but I could see him continuing to average around 8. He won't have as good of defenders on him and he will have more of a chance to score. Gerald Green doesn't really strike me as a player we want on the floor during the Playoffs, especially with Stephenson already out there. Those two guys would combine for the lowest IQ in the league.
> 
> I want Paul George to play as much three spot as possible. Maybe even sprinkle in Augustine and move Hill to shooting guard, the lineup of DJ/Hill/George/Granger/Hibbert could score.


i'd say lance has been playing well this year. he's made some mistakes but everyone does. for the most part, he's been playing well. i'd say there is no contest between him and green on the iq issue.


----------



## Gonzo

Looks like we squeaked out a win. Only part I caught of the game was the end of the 1st and beginning of the second, on the radio. Sounded like our bench sucked.


----------



## Gonzo




----------



## R-Star

Way to go Paul......


Either a MIP typo, or just another example that no one knows a thing about our team.


----------



## Gonzo

It's a typo I think because they changed it to most improved.


----------



## R-Star

Anyone catch the full game yesterday? Was trying to watch it on my ipad but my work internet was pretty shitty. We all knew we'd lose another game sooner or later, but us giving up 100 is pretty uncharacteristic.


----------



## Gonzo

I watched the first half. Our defense did not look sharp at all.

Bench did not look good either.


----------



## R-Star

Hopefully it was just a bad game for us then. Shows how tight it is at the top of the east when one lost game drops you from 3rd to 5th in the standings.


----------



## Gonzo

Not sure if I will catch the game tonight or not but we definitely need a win. This 4 game road trip can kill us, hopefully the couple days off gave the guys some rest and also some time to practice.


----------



## historysir

Gonzo said:


>


Paul George virtually does everything and plays over 40 mins/game usually so that fits


----------



## Pacers Fan

Just saw the highlights from last night. We were ****ed on those last two plays. First Iguodala was not called for a foul on that reach on George, then George was called for a foul on Iguodala for bumping him on an alley-oop but mostly standing up straight. Both of these when the game was even. Either call them both or don't call either. Bullshit.


----------



## Gonzo

I just saw it too. ****ing bullshit.

Also sounds like we were ****ed in Utah on Saturday night and I still haven't seen that play.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Look at the highlights. To my knowledge, the NBA still hasn't released anything about that call. Still, those were two games that we should not have even been in position to win. You have to admire the poise of this team to keep fighting back like this.


----------



## Pacers Fan

> Mike Wells: League announces officials missed Iguodala's foul on Paul George at end of Monday's game in Denver. Twitter @MikeWellsNBA


Thanks guys.


----------



## Luke

Was looking through the twitter thread on ebb and stumbled upon rstars twitter. Needless to say I was not disappointed.


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----------



## Gonzo

What's his handle? I don't think I've added him


----------



## Luke

Don't remember what it is exactly but I believe its just his real name.


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----------



## Gonzo

Luke said:


> Don't remember what it is exactly but I believe its just his real name.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Eh, I don't even know his real name.


----------



## Gonzo

Lance Stephenson update: 12/11/5 tonight. First double double of his career.


----------



## Knick Killer

R-Star: @RileyWRussell

KK31: @TaylorAllen31


----------



## Knick Killer

> The Pacers will be wearing their classic pinstripe uniforms on Friday when they host the Miami Heat for the second time this season. The game will be aired on ESPN, in addition to FOX Sports Indiana.
> 
> These uniforms, as seen exclusively on Pacers.com, may be classified as retro, but they were worn less than a decade ago. When Hall of Famer Reggie Miller retired, the Pacers introduced the new-look uniforms that they wear today.
> 
> The stylish and popular pinstripe uniforms were worn from1997-98 to 2004-05, including the teams’ NBA Finals appearance during the 1999-2000 season.


http://blogs.pacers.com/pacers-breaking-out-the-classic-pinstripes-on-friday/

...FINALLY!


----------



## Gonzo

I've been waiting for Paul George in pinstripes. 

And I already follow you KK


----------



## Knick Killer

You do? What's your account?


----------



## Bogg

The pinstripes are better than what you wear now. That is all.


----------



## Knick Killer

Agreed but when Reggie retired it was an end of an era and it was time to change it up.


----------



## Gonzo

We should have kept the pinstripes, it's not like he used those his entire career.

We've had this conversation plenty of times.


----------



## Gonzo

Knick Killer said:


> You do? What's your account?


Tweeted you


----------



## Knick Killer

Don't think you did my friend. I'm on twitter as we speak.


----------



## Knick Killer

Just realized that I work tomorrow night. Currently doing everything in my power to get rid of the shift so I can see the Pacers-Heat game.


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----------



## Knick Killer

Couldn't get rid of it so it looks like ill have to record this one. 


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----------



## Gonzo




----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

I only saw the 4th quarter before heading to work. I didn't even realized it was on TNT till late.

This defense is better than advertised, and I'm really proud of this team.

If we could get home court throughout, I really belief we'll make the finals.

Just hope Granger doesn't mess it up.


----------



## Pacers Fan

I had to work during the game, but I managed to switch out to doing stock and taking out trash near where we have a TV, so I got to catch most of the game in glimpses. We started off well, which is important against Miami, and only were down I think 4-5 points at most. It looks like Miami just didn't have it tonight, even after half-time, and we continually crushed their spirits, which I like to see. Roy got in foul trouble off some questionable calls, but this is one of those nights we didn't really need him. West was an animal tonight, and Hansbrough's beginning to look like himself back when he was starting. I have to say, as well, that Lance Stephenson's been having some good games lately on both sides of the floor, and that Orlando Johnson, despite his limited minutes, really looks like a future rotational player.

Also, I really hope George Hill is okay. I haven't heard anything on him, but judging from his pain level and the injury, that looked like either a torn rotator cuff or a dislocated shoulder.


----------



## Luke

This team could be trouble in the playoffs


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----------



## Gonzo

Pacers Fan said:


> I had to work during the game, but I managed to switch out to doing stock and taking out trash near where we have a TV, so I got to catch most of the game in glimpses. We started off well, which is important against Miami, and only were down I think 4-5 points at most. It looks like Miami just didn't have it tonight, even after half-time, and we continually crushed their spirits, which I like to see. Roy got in foul trouble off some questionable calls, but this is one of those nights we didn't really need him. West was an animal tonight, and Hansbrough's beginning to look like himself back when he was starting. I have to say, as well, that Lance Stephenson's been having some good games lately on both sides of the floor, and that Orlando Johnson, despite his limited minutes, really looks like a future rotational player.
> 
> Also, I really hope George Hill is okay. I haven't heard anything on him, but judging from his pain level and the injury, that looked like either a torn rotator cuff or a dislocated shoulder.


Hill's bump looked bad but he came back in for the pointless final 2 minutes. If he was anything but ok I don't think he would have come in. It was hilarious listening to Jon Barry dumbfounded about the injury, he really doesn't watch our games because that was the same shoulder he's had problems with in the past, right?


----------



## Pacers Fan

Ah, I didn't see the last few minutes after his injury. Maybe he played on it to keep it loose? I don't recall if he's had injury problems there before. I know he's had ankle problems. And Jon Barry is the most incompetent announcer/analyst I've ever heard.


----------



## Luke

I saw the injury and didn't think it looked that bad. Granted, I had no idea he's had problems with that shoulder before so that explains it.


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----------



## Knick Killer

Extremely pissed that I couldn't get out of work to catch this game(and Rudy Gay's debut). Glad to hear we kicked the shit out of these mother****ers again though. I really hope we play these guys in the playoffs cause I think we can take em.


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----------



## Gonzo

Pacers Fan said:


> Ah, I didn't see the last few minutes after his injury. Maybe he played on it to keep it loose? I don't recall if he's had injury problems there before. I know he's had ankle problems. And Jon Barry is the most incompetent announcer/analyst I've ever heard.


It was kind of an off and on injury last year. He wore a brace a lot, I just can't remember if it was his left or right, I'm assuming it was his left because he looked genuinely worried.


----------



## Gonzo

Nevermind, it was his left shoulder last year too. Apparently he sprained it and he was out for a few games.

http://www.indycornrows.com/2012/3/...te-george-hill-out-against-heat-with-sprained

As far as last nights, looks like he's day-to-day with a shoulder contusion.



> @MikeWellsNBA
> “@cgtaylor89: any news on the seriousness of @George_Hill3 shoulder injury?” (Day 2 day w left shoulder contusion)


https://twitter.com/MikeWellsNBA/statuses/297727602314067969


----------



## Gonzo




----------



## Knick Killer

I love it.


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----------



## Gonzo

Sick pass from PG


----------



## Knick Killer

15th consecutive win at home. We're kind of a big deal.


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----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

To keep it real...I never knew Indy would be this scary good, so quick.

PG is growing into superstar, West is back to his All-Star style, Lance is starting to show his potential, and Danny will be back soon (hopefully to the bench) 

Wouldn't imagine the finals before, but now I expect it. 

GO PACERS BABY!


----------



## Bogg

I'm excited by the increasingly likely Pacers-Knicks round 2 bloodbath. How fun is it that we get to say that again?


----------



## Knick Killer

Bogg said:


> I'm excited by the increasingly likely Pacers-Knicks round 2 bloodbath. How fun is it that we get to say that again?


I love it. If we wear the pinstripes for that series I'll die a happy man.

As Pacerholic said, I think our play without DG has raised the expectations of this team. I'm thinking we could make the finals this year as crazy as it sounds. Other than Miami, the door is wide open in the East. 


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----------



## Gonzo

I won't be happy with anything but an ECF series, Finals would be nice but let's not get ahead of ourselves. We haven't seen the team with Danny yet, but either him or Lance Stephenson first off the bench won't be a bad thing. Like I've said a hundred times, I really love PG at the 3, I do not want to see him move. 

Heat / Knicks / Bulls matchups in the Playoffs will be brutal and will all probably go 6-7 games. A team I don't want to play is the Nets, they just don't seem to match up well with us; we blew a 4th quarter lead against them earlier this year, granted we were on a back to back on the road.


----------



## Bogg

Knick Killer said:


> I love it. If we wear the pinstripes for that series I'll die a happy man.


You guys should never _not_ wear the pinstripes. The Reggie unis and the Charlotte purple-and-teals are the two pinstripe designs that never should have gone away.


----------



## Gonzo

Bogg said:


> You guys should never _not_ wear the pinstripes. The Reggie unis and the Charlotte purple-and-teals are the two pinstripe designs that never should have gone away.


Tell that to management. I'm sure some old casual fans don't even recognize us in our new jerseys.

I really hope that local news stations are eating up the home game winning streak we're on, that could help attendance.


----------



## Knick Killer

We're on the third game of a back to back to back tonight. Grinding through that with 3 wins would be incredibly impressive.


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----------



## Pacers Fan

Gonzo said:


> I won't be happy with anything but an ECF series, Finals would be nice but let's not get ahead of ourselves. We haven't seen the team with Danny yet, but either him or Lance Stephenson first off the bench won't be a bad thing. Like I've said a hundred times, I really love PG at the 3, I do not want to see him move.
> 
> Heat / Knicks / Bulls matchups in the Playoffs will be brutal and will all probably go 6-7 games. A team I don't want to play is the Nets, they just don't seem to match up well with us; we blew a 4th quarter lead against them earlier this year, granted we were on a back to back on the road.


I'm not afraid of the ****ing Nets. I think we match up just fine with them, especially with Danny Granger back. Deron Williams in his current state is not going to play much better than George Hill, Hibbert and Mahinmi should be able to check Brook Lopez, and Evans/Humphries cannot guard David West, although Evans might get under his skin and grab some rebounds. Joe Johnson's having a down year, and again, I think PG can check him. Gerald Wallace really hurts them in the half-court with his inability to spread the floor. And **** their bench. I'm only worried about Andray Blatche, and maybe Marshon Brooks for a game. Brooklyn's honeymoon period with PJ Carlesimo is over and we would wipe the floor with them.

But yes, I really look forward to us playing any of the other top 4 teams in the East. I think any of those matchups can go 7 games.


----------



## Gonzo

Back-to-back-to-back wins; 5 in a row. 

Roy Hibbert huge game tonight. This Pacers team looks really confident right now.

Roy Hibbert says he's heading to the weight room right after his post game interview.


----------



## Knick Killer

I ****ing LOVE IT! Back to back to back is an extremely impressive feat no matter what teams you play. We have a bunch of home games coming up too so it's a good time in Pacer Nation.


----------



## Gonzo

PG made the 3pt contest.
Green is in the dunk contest.


----------



## Gonzo

> Pacers the new Bad Boys?
> 
> http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/54420/truehoop-tv-pacers-the-new-bad-boys


...


----------



## Knick Killer

Gonzo said:


> PG made the 3pt contest.
> *Green* is in the dunk contest.


Of course he is...


----------



## Knick Killer

Jonas Valanciunas is taking Roy Hibbert to school tonight. Jonas looks like the former all-star center instead of Roy.


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----------



## Pacers Fan

Fortunately for the Pacers, Paul George can beat the Raptors regardless of the performances of Valanciunas and Hibbert.


----------



## Knick Killer

David West looks like an old man tonight.


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----------



## Knick Killer

This game is ridiculous. 


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----------



## Pacers Fan

Damn you George Hill. And damn you David West. Grrrr.


----------



## Pacers Fan

I don't know if I can take the Hoosiers and the Pacers both losing this week.


----------



## Knick Killer

Tough loss. Definitely showed that it was our 4th game in 5 nights.


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----------



## Gonzo

Pacers looked really tired down the stretch. Tough loss, but that streak had to end sometime. The Raptors always seem to bring it against us, so it wasn't surprising. Liked most of what I saw until the 4th. Too many bad decisions.


----------



## Porn Player

**** Hansbrough. What a punk.


----------



## Pacers Fan

So apparently Amir Johnson's last shot in regulation was late, and we should have won 90-88. ****ed over again. I can't wait to see what the NBA says about this one.


----------



## Gonzo

Pacers Fan said:


> So apparently Amir Johnson's last shot in regulation was late, and we should have won 90-88. ****ed over again. I can't wait to see what the NBA says about this one.


Yeah it was, but there wasn't really a view good enough to make the call.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Knick Killer's banned now?


----------



## Porn Player

He asked to be banned for a couple days as he has exams.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Ah, I think he's done that before.


----------



## Porn Player

I was tempted to ban all Pacer fans after Tyler stupidly threw Jonas, but luckily for you guys, the big Lithuanian was fine.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Porn Player said:


> I was tempted to ban all Pacer fans after Tyler stupidly threw Jonas, but luckily for you guys, the big Lithuanian was fine.


What happened with that? I wasn't able to catch the game.


----------



## Porn Player

Jonas is beating him under the basket so he throws him to the ground. It's a dirty play in its own right, but when you know the player is 1 game back from a broken hand its downright ludicrous.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Tyler should work on his judo game some more. He might be more successful at that than basketball.


----------



## Porn Player

I don't mind playing hard and I usually respect those type of hustle guys, but this really pissed me off.


----------



## Pacers Fan

> Alex Kennedy: Source says the Indiana Pacers and Chicago Bulls are among the teams pursuing Orlando Magic guard J.J. Redick. Twitter @AlexKennedyNBA


I really doubt we make a move, and it seems like other teams (Boston, Chicago, etc.) will probably make better plays for Redick. But, in the event that we do work something out, what would Orlando want from us? Maybe Hansbrough and Orlando Johnson? I would love to have Redick here. I think he'd be perfect with George on the wing.


----------



## Porn Player

No way you get Reddick. The Bucks are also in play for him and Henson is a much more attractive piece than anything you have to offer.


----------



## Gonzo

I wouldn't mind Reddick but who will be filling Hansbrough's spot? Pendergraph? Ugh

EDIT:
Looks like Granger will be back very soon.



> Mike Wells ‏@MikeWellsNBA
> Granger went fullcourt - and looked good according to those who saw him - in practice today. Goal is for him 2 play Wed barring any setbacks


So looks like I will be seeing him on the 22nd when I go to the game against Detroit.


----------



## Gonzo

Wow, tough loss tonight. They didn't even have Williams.


----------



## Marcus13

Second half sure looked a lot different than the first


----------



## Knick Killer

Porn Player said:


> Jonas is beating him under the basket so he throws him to the ground. It's a dirty play in its own right, but when you know the player is 1 game back from a broken hand its downright ludicrous.


Oh quit crying that wasn't even that bad. I wish there was more of this to be honest. I miss the level of physicality that the NBA used to have in the 80's and 90's.


----------



## Gonzo

Knick Killer said:


> I miss the level of physicality that the NBA used to have in the 80's and 90's.


This is probably one of the most overused statements from fans today.

Hansbrough's move was not physical, it was stupid. There's a reason why we get called dirty and he's making it worse.


----------



## Luke

How do you miss something that you weren't there for? That would have been an unnecessary play in any era.


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----------



## Knick Killer

Luke said:


> How do you miss something that you weren't there for? That would have been an unnecessary play in any era.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Because I've watched my fair share of basketball from especially the 90's and I enjoyed the way they played in that era more than the way they play now. Smart ass. 

Obviously it was an unnecessary play but it's not even half as bad as you guys are making it out to be. 


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----------



## Luke

Knick Killer said:


> Because I've watched my fair share of basketball from especially the 90's and I enjoyed the way they played in that era more than the way they play now. Smart ass.
> 
> Obviously it was an unnecessary play but it's not even half as bad as you guys are making it out to be.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


You watch full length games that you already know the outcome of? Really?

It was a dirty play. And it would have been a dirty player in any era, even the ones you "miss". Sorry.


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----------



## Knick Killer

Luke said:


> You watch full length games that you already know the outcome of? Really?
> 
> It was a dirty play. And it would have been a dirty player in any era, even the ones you "miss". Sorry.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Uhh yeah? I love when NBATV shows classic games it's great. 

Move along back to your depressing Lakers forum now. 


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----------



## Luke

The lakers' board is depressing?


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----------



## Knick Killer

Luke said:


> The lakers' board is depressing?
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Well Laker nation isn't too happy considering how pathetic the team is so yeah I'd say so. 


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----------



## Porn Player

It was a dirty play on a rookie that was coming back from a broken hand.

It's almost as if you're as stupid as Tyler.


----------



## Pacers Fan

That comment really shouldn't be coming from a moderator. Still, don't act like Hansbrough's some kind of mindless goon. That play would have gone completely unnoticed in the '80's/'90's where flagrant fouls today were sometimes not even called normal fouls.


----------



## Luke

No it wouldn't have. The notion that 80s/90s ball was like a football game isn't true. No amount of YouTube Larry bird fights changes the fact that basketball is still basketball. 


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----------



## Porn Player

Pacers Fan said:


> That comment really shouldn't be coming from a moderator. Still, don't act like Hansbrough's some kind of mindless goon. That play would have gone completely unnoticed in the '80's/'90's where flagrant fouls today were sometimes not even called normal fouls.


I moderate the Raptors forum, not the Pacers, if whoever mods this forum would like to to infract me for my comment then go right ahead. I also said it was 'almost as if', which was my cute way of pretend insulting KK. 

Hansbrough is a knucklehead when he does stuff like this. You didn't see The Admiral or The Dream having to throw people around. Players might have played tough, but they generally played fair. Going after a rookie who was 1 game returned from a lengthy absence for a broken hand, purely because that rookie has been bitching you on the boards all game is pathetic.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Luke said:


> No it wouldn't have. The notion that 80s/90s ball was like a football game isn't true. No amount of YouTube Larry bird fights changes the fact that basketball is still basketball.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


I don't know if you're watching the same '80s I have. I notice a significant decrease in dirty plays/taunting now versus even five years ago due to media campaigns, changing ethics, rule shifts on flagrants, replay, and NBA press releases after the fact. Five years ago, there was still a significant difference versus five years prior, etc. No one's saying basketball was ever played like football, but dirty plays have been significantly reduced and occur with less frequency. That means that smaller ones stand out. Nothing wrong with that, because it's good for players, but KK and I were just pointing it out. 

And football's a good example. Look at the difference in the NFL as well, especially with new information on concussions. Basketball is almost a completely different sport than it was in the 1980s. Players who played then will even tell you that.

PP, I really doubt Hansbrough even knew Valanciunas's condition. I doubt he even knows who he is. JV is probably about as popular and followed outside Ontario and Lithuania as Ian Mahinmi. Dirty play? Sure, likely. Egregious? No. I've seen much worse this year and in prior years. Nothing to get too worked up about. Everyone dislikes Tyler Hansbrough.


----------



## Porn Player

Pacers Fan said:


> PP, I really doubt Hansbrough even knew Valanciunas's condition. I doubt he even knows who he is. JV is probably about as popular and followed outside Ontario and Lithuania as Ian Mahinmi. Dirty play? Sure, likely. Egregious? No. I've seen much worse this year and in prior years. Nothing to get too worked up about. Everyone dislikes Tyler Hansbrough.


He had a black wrap on his hand, it was really noticeable. I'm not giving Hansbrough the benefit of the doubt, I enjoy disliking him.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Porn Player said:


> He had a black wrap on his hand, it was really noticeable. I'm not giving Hansbrough the benefit of the doubt, I enjoy disliking him.


I don't enjoy disliking him. Seriously, pissing off the competition like this is his only talent.


----------



## Knick Killer

I may be as stupid as Tyler, but if you're this worked up over that play then you should probably watch Volleyball or something.




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----------



## Gonzo

Not happy with how last night went down.


----------



## Gonzo

> The Pacers' Paul George scored 17 points in 20 minutes as the East narrowly lost to the West, 143-138. George also added 4 assists, 3 rebounds and 2 steals


-Pacers.com front page


----------



## Pacers Fan

George looked pretty good. He was a little timid at first, but he stroked 2 3 pointers in a row in the final 2 minutes. I wish he could get on the World Championship team. He's done all this with just a little help from LBJ in the off season.


----------



## Gonzo

Pacers Fan said:


> George looked pretty good. He was a little timid at first, but he stroked 2 3 pointers in a row in the final 2 minutes. I wish he could get on the World Championship team. He's done all this with just a little help from LBJ in the off season.


The sky is the limit for him, this years Playoffs will be huge for his development. Can't wait to see what he's like in a few years. Hopefully he takes a page out of LeBron's book and starts training with some legends.


----------



## Gonzo

ESPN guys on Coast to Coast just proposed Granger + '13 first round for Millsap and Hayward. 

Haven't really seen enough from the Jazz this year, what do you guys think? Pacers Fan?


----------



## Knick Killer

If we got Millsap, would that mean we wouldn't re-sign D-West?


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----------



## Pacers Fan

Check this thread for a discussion I had about the Jazz/Millsap:

http://www.basketballforum.com/utah-jazz/479297-core-big-guys.html

I would absolutely enjoy Hayward in Indiana and that makes the deal much more appealing. Hopefully having Millsap would give David West a little less leverage to ask for a **** ton of money this year, but it also might make him walk.

What I hadn't considered before is that if we can somehow keep them both, and at least for this year, that only leaves Hansbrough's 16 minutes for Millsap to take. Millsap and West absolutely cannot play together except for special, short stretches.


----------



## Bogg

Pacers Fan said:


> What I hadn't considered before is that if we can somehow keep them both, and at least for this year, that only leaves Hansbrough's 16 minutes for Millsap to take. Millsap and West absolutely cannot play together except for special, short stretches.


Millsap's worked pretty well in short stretches at the three in the past. It would allow Indiana to go ultra-big on teams with Hibbert/West/Millsap/George/whoever for short stretches, which could create some interesting mismatches on offense while not hurting you much on D.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Bogg said:


> Millsap's worked pretty well in short stretches at the three in the past. It would allow Indiana to go ultra-big on teams with Hibbert/West/Millsap/George/whoever for short stretches, which could create some interesting mismatches on offense while not hurting you much on D.


Can he really guard Small Forwards, though? I know he's played a little 3 in Utah, but we talked about his slow feet and declining athleticism in the other thread. Seems like Hayward would get most of the backup 3 minutes as well, though.


----------



## Bogg

Pacers Fan said:


> Can he really guard Small Forwards, though? I know he's played a little 3 in Utah, but we talked about his slow feet and declining athleticism in the other thread. Seems like Hayward would get most of the backup 3 minutes as well, though.


I wouldn't slot him to play 30 minutes a night at the three, but for short stretches he can guard small forwards. Also, with Paul George and another guard out there, you can easily hide him on a poor offensive player, or a spot-up shooter, because the other two perimeter guys can guard any combination of guard-forward or guard-guard.


----------



## Gonzo

Anyone else feel like Hayward would be good for the fan base too?


----------



## Knick Killer

Hayward's not only good for the fan base, I think he's a solid player too. I've caught a couple Jazz games and he looks much better than he did in his rookie season.


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----------



## Pacers Fan

Bogg said:


> I wouldn't slot him to play 30 minutes a night at the three, but for short stretches he can guard small forwards. Also, with Paul George and another guard out there, you can easily hide him on a poor offensive player, or a spot-up shooter, because the other two perimeter guys can guard any combination of guard-forward or guard-guard.


Ah yeh, that does sound reasonable for maybe 5-10 minutes every other game. It really depends on the team we play, but it wouldn't be too hard to hide him with Hill and George on the perimeter. I'd worry about trying that against teams like Boston that go very small, or even Atlanta that has Korver running around screens. But, I could see some circumstances where that would work. And I'm sure every few games we could run Hill/Hayward/George/Millsap/West for a few minutes, similar to how Pendergraph gets a little burn at the 5. Regardless, it'd be really tough to trade Danny Granger for a guy we have to wait for certain matchups to give big minutes to, even if that includes Hayward. Another thing to consider is that Vogel typically doesn't like to mess with his rotations game-to-game, so it might be tough for him to implement a Paul Millsap strategy.

And yeh, Gonzo, I can see Hayward being good for the fanbase, especially considering the number of people we'd attract from Brownsburg and the Butler area for maybe his first season or two here. Plus, it's a feel-good story for the rest of the state.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Knick Killer said:


> Hayward's not only good for the fan base, I think he's a solid player too. I've caught a couple Jazz games and he looks much better than he did in his rookie season.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Hayward's solid. I think he'd be able to give us 75% of what Mike Dunleavy gave us a few years ago in terms of basketball IQ, passing ability, and shooting ability. He's also a better defender than Mike, but that isn't too hard to do.


----------



## Knick Killer

Who said we can't score?


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----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

I love this team! :yesyesyes:


----------



## Knick Killer

Heard some rumblings that DJ and Gerald Green are on the block but I don't think we will or should make any moves. Our chemistry is great and we already have Danny coming back. 


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----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

I know we were rumored to be interested in Reddick, but I'm glad we didn't move anyone.

No need to disrupt anything, or anyone right now.


----------



## Knick Killer

No Danny Granger tonight. I hope there wasn't a setback that we don't know about.


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----------



## Gonzo

Went to the game last night. Biggest blowout I've ever attended


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----------



## 29380

> @MikeWellsNBA: Danny Granger will make his season debut tonight in Detroit, according to a source.


...


----------



## Pacers Fan

Yep, makes much more sense to debut in the second night of a back-to-back as opposed to the first. And I'm glad we're playing Detroit again. Hopefully Danny won't have to log too many minutes. Is he going to start? I know some coaches like to bring their star players off the bench upon return from injury, but Vogel seems like the type to stick him right in the starting lineup.


----------



## Knick Killer

Gonzo said:


> Went to the game last night. Biggest blowout I've ever attended
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


The building was pretty full last night wasn't it? Pretty good for a Pistons game.


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----------



## Gonzo

Knick Killer said:


> The building was pretty full last night wasn't it? Pretty good for a Pistons game.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


It wasn't bad for a Pistons game but it was Friday night and family night. A lot of empty seats inbetween groups, but it wasn't the worst I've seen. Balcony was pretty good

Interested in seeing what Granger gives us tonight.


----------



## hobojoe

Jesus, third straight 30+ point victory tonight? 10-0 start.


----------



## Gonzo

hobojoe said:


> Jesus, third straight 30+ point victory tonight? 10-0 start.


Jinx.

This game is sloppy. They have the lead now.


----------



## Gonzo

Free throw attempts per game

1. James Harden 9.4
2. Dwight Howard 9.3
3. Kevin Durant 8.6
*4. TYLER HANSBROUGH 8.1*
5. Ramon Sessions 7.7
6. Russell Westbrook 7.0
7. Carmelo Anthony 6.9
8. Kobe Bryant 6.8
9. Dewayne Wade 6.7
10. DeMarcus Cousins 6.6


----------



## Knick Killer

Love Psycho T.



Well Danny Granger looked like shot but that's to be expected.


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----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

That FT stat for PT is crazy, never would've of expected it.


----------



## Gonzo

Hopefully that fight last night won't get us too much bad press.

Really liked what I saw from us though. Lots of intensity, matched Golden State's quickness. Danny Granger looked good too, he might not have hit a lot of shots, but he was attacking the basket, not scared to go at that knee.

5 wins in a row, this team is really starting to come together. Big game against the Clippers at home Thursday.


----------



## Knick Killer

Big Roy suspended one game and fined 35k and Stephenson was fined the same amount without a suspension. Roy said he will pay for Lance's fine for having his back.

Now that's team chemistry. 


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----------



## Luke

That's a pretty nice gesture


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----------



## Gonzo

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/...granger-paul-george-very-close-on-team-022713



> INDIANAPOLIS
> 
> The most dangerous threat to the Miami Heat’s chances for Eastern Conference domination is the relationship on display at a downtown hotspot full of gawking fans, two men talking without a hint of the rivalry so many predict. In the good-natured barbs, in the private and quiet moments of respect over the buzz of the bar, and in the ease of mentor and protégé sharing a night out on the town, the friendship between a blossoming superstar and his 29-year-old mentor says everything about why the Indiana Pacers have a better chance than anyone to beat the Miami Heat in a seven-game playoff series.
> 
> 
> Paul George, 22, has his Steelers hat on backward. His black Nike sweater with the hoodie. And his jokes about Danny Granger’s “old-man game.” Granger, his finger wrapped after having it drained at a hospital a few hours earlier, switches between marveling “wow!” as Stephen Curry goes off for 54 points on the big screen above them and boasting loud and confidently that he owns George in the Xbox matches that mark Pacers’ road games.
> 
> “I dominate FIFA,” Granger boasts.
> 
> “I’m by far the best on FIFA,” George says at the exact same moment.
> 
> “I dominate!”
> 
> They are talking over one another, at one another, laughing, so it’s hard to keep up with the smack talking. Suffice it to say it is intense, continuous and really funny.
> 
> “A bunch of us play, there’s like four or five of us on the team who play,” Granger offers.
> 
> “And I dominate most of the time,” George says.
> 
> “I dominate,” Granger says.
> 
> They go down the list: Who bests whom at FIFA, at Call of Duty, at the outdoor paintball course they head to in the offseason in the Los Angeles area, where they live and often hang out. These are friends, comfortable together and genuinely close, and so the mood seems so normal and down to earth it’s hard to remember you’re with two NBA stars every time a fan sheepishly approaches asking for a photo.
> 
> It’s also why Granger’s return, far from the narrative being crafted that he and George cannot co-exist, is a boon to a team with a real chance at a postseason run.
> 
> All season, quietly, the Pacers have played postseason-style basketball with the grinding, intense, team-first effort that makes them Miami’s greatest threat. They are the best defensive team in the league, they have the NBA’s second-best rebounding rate, they own the third-most blocks per game, and they play an intense and all-in style that has led to wins with gritty final scores like 82-81, 81-75, 80-76. It has also led them to a record that puts them second in the Eastern Conference.
> 
> This has all happened without Granger, who returned two games ago – and has struggled with his shot, as he tends to early in seasons – after a nine-month hiatus from a knee tendon injury. Last season, Granger was the team’s leading scorer. Now he returns needing to fit into a world in which the younger George has assumed a leading role at the very position he plays.
> 
> The two men are side by side, at a table with George’s brother and a few friends, but they get serious – and protective of the other – when the question of their supposed chemistry issues comes up.
> 
> *“Danny’s been like a big brother to me,” George says. “He’s really been a mentor to me. He’s been a big brother. Anything that I needed to learn or that I needed help with or getting adjusted to, Danny was there. So early on I felt like we had a brother relationship.”*
> 
> There’s no doubting that the two men, in many NBA locker rooms, would be rivals. Rivals for playing time, for the spotlight, for the leadership role, for the glory, for the next big contract or the ego-driven need the Lakers keep exhibiting to simply feel like The Man. But the Pacers are different. It’s why Roy Hibbert said Wednesday he’d pay Lance Stephenson’s $35,000 fine for being a good teammate and having his back during the Wednesday shoving match that got Hibbert and Golden State’s David Lee suspended. It’s why Indiana’s defense is so focused and intense. It’s why the Pacers rotate so well, why they buy in, why George feels a genuine ease with every guy on the roster, why Granger seems so comfortable with the idea of turning over his role to the others.
> 
> These guys – led first and foremost by George and Granger – actually really like each other.
> 
> “I think the biggest deal about it is the assumptions since I was coming back that there’d be a competition between us, when it’s actually the opposite,” Granger says. “The way he can break defenses down, the way he can create, I can just stand, catch and shoot, drive – it makes my job easier. He’s coming in at such a young age – he’s 22 now – I’m going to be 30 in a month and a half.
> 
> “So I’m about to have a mid-life crisis,” Granger says. George laughs at him. *“So I’m 30, you know, I have no problem – I’ve been in the league eight years – I have no problem passing the mantle to him, to leave the team to Roy and George.”Granger looks at George, right in the eye. “Those guys really, even David, those are the nucleus of this team. I’m getting older now, and the fact that we drafted Roy, then we drafted PG, I was drafted here, Lance Stephenson was drafted here, Tyler was drafted here. My whole team I watched get drafted. I’ve watched all of them grow. So I have no problem passing the mantle. At all.”*
> 
> This is a handover – no, a sharing of responsibility and opportunity and, yes, a sharing and passing on of glory – that began with Granger’s blessing two years ago, when George was a 19-year-old kid getting ready for the NBA draft.
> 
> “We had gone through the draft and we were working out together,” Granger said. “It was the day of draft day, and – we have the same agent – I’d been working out with him for about a month. So I got about five calls from Larry Bird. Larry Bird never calls me. And he’s like, ‘Danny, I need you to call me back. Danny, I need you to call me back.’
> 
> “Finally, I call him back, and he’s like, ‘Ah, what do you think of this kid Paul George?’
> 
> “I’ve been working out with Paul.”
> 
> “He’s like, ‘Yeah, tell me what you think.’’’
> 
> Granger stops the story to laugh, loudly, and as he does he looks again at George, and George, almost embarrassed, looks down and laughs, too. He obviously has heard this story before, and the moment seems as far from Kobe-Dwight as you can possibly get in the NBA.
> 
> “I say, ‘You better take him.’ That’s what I’m saying. ‘Dude, you gotta take him.’
> 
> “Is he good?” Bird asked.
> 
> “Dude. He’s really, really good.”
> 
> “All right, that’s all I wanted to hear,” Bird said. “Bye.”
> 
> “And that was it,” Granger says. “And later that night we selected him.”
> 
> The green light Granger gave to bring in George two years ago has the Pacers now primed from a deep postseason run.
> 
> 
> “Honestly, I think we’re selling ourselves short if we don’t think we can win it all this year,” George says. “Across the whole board we have the whole makeup of a championship team. I think we’ve got the experience, we’ve got the size, we’ve got the shot-making ability, our defense is phenomenal. We play great team ball. Just everything just ties in together in terms of us having a shot at winning it all this year.”
> 
> Granger helps that lofty goal. He’s a catch-and-shoot player who can benefit from George’s ability to create with a handle that’s stunning for a guy who’s 6-9. George’s size and defensive ferocity mean he can D-up on LeBron, but Granger, at 6-8, can also help. And Granger is a leader, a vet who commands respect from refs and other players, and another weapon for a Pacers team that while great needed the added layer of depth.
> 
> None of this is to say the Pacers will beat the Heat. Miami is a force right now, playing so well – LeBron’s all-time greatness, Dwyane Wade’s continued excellence, Chris Bosh also great – they will be tough for anyone. For everyone.
> 
> In fact, before Granger showed up at the bar, George and his friends had the can-LeBron-be-better-than-Jordan argument. It was far from decisive – some said yes, some said, no, George was respectful but non-committal of LeBron’s chances – but it was also clear that all of them know just how historically great LeBron James is playing, George included.
> 
> In Granger, the Pacers have more than a scoring threat, or the team’s leading scorer from last season, or another physical body to throw at King James. They have a leader and friend who fits seamlessly into – and helped create – perhaps the most copasetic locker room in sports.
> 
> “Sometimes on NBA teams you’ve got guys competing with each other,” Granger says. “That’s the thing about our team. We compete against the other team. Whoever’s scoring, whoever’s playing, whoever’s passing the ball, whoever’s doing whatever, we’re rooting for that person. I think Frank Vogel, he did a good job of instilling that in all of us. Play for your teammates.”
> 
> After some more banter, Granger leaves, and everyone says their goodbyes. This is when the fans come, seeing an opening, asking George for photos, showing him pictures of their pets, telling him how much they appreciate him, rooting on him and his Pacers as they shyly walk away, stunned they’ve met him.
> 
> But George, his star clearly rising, still has his mind on Granger. His friends are watching more of Curry’s magic, but George looks toward the door, to where Granger was a few minutes ago.
> 
> “I think,” he says, almost to himself, “that the reason we’ve been the team we are is Danny. Whatever you call it, our franchise guy, he’s been so open. He’s been a really, really good guy.”
> 
> And that’s the key: *Granger’s return isn’t the threat of one star wanting to take back what’s his. It’s a friend returning to the fold, a guy who has known since he trained three years ago with George that this day would and should come.*


----------



## Gonzo

I don't mind Mahinmi starting tonight, he's going to have an easier time guarding the fast paced offense of Paul/Griffin/Jordan.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Gonzo said:


> I don't mind Mahinmi starting tonight, he's going to have an easier time guarding the fast paced offense of Paul/Griffin/Jordan.


Very true, but how will Pendergraph and Plumlee fare for the 15 minutes he's not in the game?


----------



## Gonzo

Pacers Fan said:


> Very true, but how will Pendergraph and Plumlee fare for the 15 minutes he's not in the game?


Doubt Plumlee will be playing.

Pendy has looked good in the few minutes we've given him this year. IIRC, he had a 10+ point game where he shot pretty well.


----------



## Knick Killer

Wow great article Gonzo thanks for posting that. **** I love this team.


----------



## LA68

Gonzo said:


> Hopefully that fight last night won't get us too much bad press.


This is the reputation you want ! That you won't back down to anyone. You already play the Heat tough and that's the only team that matters at this point. 

And I don't think its a coincidence that Granger gets back and there is a fight just days later. I think he brings something that gets the whole team fired up.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Good post LA! and good win last night.


----------



## Gonzo

Granger didn't play in the second half tonight for the second game in a row. Probably nothing to be worried about but he didn't look good at all tonight, looked a little like he did in the preseason. Let's hope it's just rust and normal pain.

On another note, good win. Defense didn't look great at times but we stepped it up in the end and made it through the bullshit officiating that didn't really let anyone get physical.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Gonzo said:


> Granger didn't play in the second half tonight for the second game in a row. Probably nothing to be worried about but he didn't look good at all tonight, looked a little like he did in the preseason. Let's hope it's just rust and normal pain.


Yeh, Granger looked really bad. He was timid, didn't have any lift at all, wouldn't even consider going to the rim, and all his shots were short. I wonder if he came back too early, if he can't even play in the second half two games in a row. The announcers mentioned a sore knee, so let's hope the swelling isn't too bad and that isn't set back at all. I really like his place with the reserves.

But yes, very good win, although kudos go to the Bulls for keeping it close without Rose, Hinrich, and Gibson.


----------



## Gonzo

Pacers Fan said:


> Yeh, Granger looked really bad. He was timid, didn't have any lift at all, wouldn't even consider going to the rim, and all his shots were short. I wonder if he came back too early, if he can't even play in the second half two games in a row. The announcers mentioned a sore knee, so let's hope the swelling isn't too bad and that isn't set back at all. I really like his place with the reserves.
> 
> But yes, very good win, although kudos go to the Bulls for keeping it close without Rose, Hinrich, and Gibson.


Granger has played 10 and 8 minutes the past two games respectively, so it's not like he's logging huge minutes.

He looked good against the Clippers on Thursday so hopefully he just got too much burn during that game. Perhaps he shouldn't have played at all in Toronto.

Just realized David West dropped 31 last night, damn.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Gonzo said:


> Just realized David West dropped 31 last night, damn.


West has been 10 times better than I thought he would be. He's just an animal down low and has an automatic 14-17 footer. He is without a doubt our go-to guy, but I wish he could defend anyone. It's like he doesn't even try out there. Our help defense last night was atrocious, and I attribute that to West's inability to move as well as Mahinmi's poor vision and awareness on defense.


----------



## Gonzo

Can't believe some of us were considering Nene or Landry over West...


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Gonzo said:


> Can't believe some of us were considering Nene or Landry over West...


It's gonna be impossible to keep West, PG, and Lance with Hibbert's crazy contract. 

I love the way West plays, but I rather keep our youth.


----------



## Knick Killer

Ughhhh just pissed away the game against the Celtics. Didn't score a single point in the final four minutes and didn't play good defence either. 


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----------



## Gonzo

We need Granger and I think his lingering injury has really thrown off the team. 

I don't like this reliance on Hibbert at all right now.


----------



## Gonzo

I miss R-Star


----------



## Pacers Fan

Gonzo said:


> I miss R-Star


The success of Lance Stephenson has driven him away.


----------



## Knick Killer

Yeah it's not as fun being obnoxious Pacer fans without him. 


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----------



## Gonzo

I hope he's just off drilling for oil and not gone forever.


----------



## Knick Killer

Nah I think he's done.


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----------



## Gonzo

Looking at his last post he might be for a while. But hopefully he's back come playoff time.

Danny Granger news: Out for the next three games and then re-evaluating. Probably miss next 5. It's getting late.


----------



## Knick Killer

Sent him a DM on twitter a couple weeks ago and it didnt sound like he'd ever be back.


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----------



## Pacers Fan

Knick Killer said:


> Sent him a DM on twitter a couple weeks ago and it didnt sound like he'd ever be back.


Because no one here is ever wrong?


----------



## Gonzo

At this point if we face Boston in the first round we are going to lose.


----------



## Knick Killer

We aren't lookin pretty these days. So much for being unbeatable at home.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

I feel real stupid for getting my hopes up...Saying this team is legit is like saying Chinese women are cute.


----------



## Knick Killer

Uhhhh what? 


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----------



## Gonzo

PaCeRhOLiC said:


> I feel real stupid for getting my hopes up...Saying this team is legit is like saying Chinese women are cute.


Based on my experience having been to China, some of them can be cute, but the average Chinese female is not. It's not like the average American is cute either.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if we lose in the first round, boy would that be a disappointment. We'd be labeled a joke. The bench is just not good enough when shots aren't falling. We might rival Portland for the worst bench. Maybe it's time to go back to Gerald Green.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Great post G!


----------



## Knick Killer

We get way too high, and we get way too low with this team. We'll be fine.


----------



## Gonzo

Knick Killer said:


> We get way too high, and we get way too low with this team. We'll be fine.


You really think we can beat the Celtics in 7 games at this point? 

We will be out coached, out defended, and beat up inside. With Avery Bradley on Paul George this team will go nowhere.


----------



## Knick Killer

It won't be an easy series but I'm not worried. 


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----------



## Basel

> Mike Wells @MikeWellsNBA
> 
> Danny Granger (knee) has been cleared to resume activities. He won't play this in the 4 games this week, but will practice this week.


...


----------



## Luke

If healthy the pacers are currently the second best team in the east and will give Miami a tough series. If not, second round and out. The future is still pretty bright though.


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----------



## Basel

> David Benner @PacersDMB
> 
> David West a game time decision against Cavs with a lower back sprain sustained in the Philadelphia game.


...


----------



## Knick Killer

Now that's the Gerald Green we need. 


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----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Good win last night, loved what I saw from Hibbert, and PT in the paint...dominated all night.

Hearing West and Danny coming back tonight, but I gotta say that I've been really impressed with Hansbrough ever since he's been starting. Doesn't even feel like we've been playing without West.

Hate what I've been (not) seeing from PG lately. He looks soft, scared to take it to the rim like Lance and Psycho do.

He's always settling for that 3, rather than attacking...he's defense is still great, but I'm not seeing the same all-star from months prior.

Bad news, especially with the post season looming. 

I thought we had our new young star, but I'm having doubts. 

Good win though, too bad NY won.


----------



## Knick Killer

Annnnd Grangers done for the year...

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/granger-have-surgery-miss-rest-regular-season


----------



## Gonzo

Should've had the surgery in the first place rather than just teasing us.

He's been dealing with the same damn thing since last postseason and every time he's tried to go it's gone the same way.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Gonzo said:


> Should've had the surgery in the first place rather than just teasing us.
> 
> He's been dealing with the same damn thing since last postseason and every time he's tried to go it's gone the same way.


Didn't he get surgery in the first place? I thought that was why he's been out so long. I guess now we're seeing those knee concerns that caused him to fall down to us in the draft.


----------



## clownskull

Pacers Fan said:


> Didn't he get surgery in the first place? I thought that was why he's been out so long. I guess now we're seeing those knee concerns that caused him to fall down to us in the draft.


no, he tried a long rest. and it obviously didn't work out. this was essentially a wasted year for him and the pacers.


----------



## clownskull

Gonzo said:


> At this point if we face Boston in the first round we are going to lose.


nah, i am not worried about facing an ancient and busted up boston in the first round. they could take a game or 2 but i can't see them winning a series.


----------



## Pacers Fan

clownskull said:


> nah, i am not worried about facing an ancient and busted up boston in the first round. they could take a game or 2 but i can't see them winning a series.


Yep. I'm a little afraid of our backcourt and swingmen not being effective against Bradley/Lee, and I could see Hill and Augustin having trouble bringing the ball up the court. But, Boston is incredibly tiny and they wouldn't be able to handle Roy Hibbert (who's been producing more, finally) and David West in a 7 game series. KG can take one of them, but they'd have to throw Wilcox/Green/Bass at the other.


----------



## Knick Killer

4 game road trip...4 wins. Impressive.


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----------



## Gonzo

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/56255/building-an-offense-in-indiana



> But West came through, and the Pacers’ locker room was festive after the game. Certain allowances are afforded to teams that log a 4-0 road trip through the Western conference, even if the landing is bumpy.
> 
> The source of the Pacers’ good spirit of late is their invigorated offense. At the outset of the season, scoring was a chore for the Pacers. There’s never been a lack of effort in Indianapolis, but every possession seemed like a grind, and open looks at the basket came hourly, if that.
> 
> *Since the midpoint of their season on January 21, the Pacers have boasted the 10th most efficient offense in the NBA, a remarkable improvement for a team that ranked 28th on New Year’s Day.* During their current five-game winning streak, the Pacers have scored well over 100 points per 100 possessions in each contest, and racked up 109 points against the Clippers in 90 possessions unofficially, good for an eye-popping 121.1 efficiency rating. Indiana’s defense has been the gold standard in the NBA since Day 1, but an offense that can produce at that level should put a scare into any team it confronts in the postseason.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Impressive would be an understatement...Just can't say how proud I am of this team, especially big Roy.


----------



## Knick Killer

Big one today against the Knicks.


----------



## Knick Killer

Pacers are in Boston today for their game against the Celtics tomorrow. Paul George tweeted earlier that he was actually hanging out at the Boston Marathon this morning(before any of the bombings). Luckily everyone is okay, but still quite the scary experience for the team to go through.


----------



## Gonzo

Game cancelled.


----------



## Knick Killer

Good call.


----------



## R-Star

George voted to All NBA 3rd team.

Wins the MIP, and is the first guy from his draft class to make the allstar team, and the first to get an All NBA team.

Hell of a year for him. Hell of a good draft pick for 10th.


----------



## R-Star

Anyone else expecting to lose Shaw this offseason? 

Another ton of rumors swirling around about interested teams this year. We know it will have to happen sooner or later. I think it will be a pretty big blow to us.


----------



## Gonzo

Wouldn't be surprised at all if we lost Shaw. He deserves a head coaching job, though.


----------



## Pacers Fan

R-Star said:


> George voted to All NBA 3rd team.
> 
> Wins the MIP, and is the first guy from his draft class to make the allstar team, and the first to get an All NBA team.
> 
> Hell of a year for him. Hell of a good draft pick for 10th.


Yep. Whoever that guy was who predicted on draft day that Paul George would be the best player in his class in 5 years is looking really good right now. He's already the best player (arguably ahead of John Wall) after 3 years. He's already exceeded my expectations and he's improved throughout the season. His improvement actually parallels Granger's in that he slowly built on his first two years, then exploded in his 3rd season. Let's hope that, like Danny, Paul becomes a 25 ppg guy next year, but unlike Danny, doesn't taper off after that.

And yeh, I'm absolutely expecting to lose Shaw this off season. I thought we would lose him last off season. I wonder just how much influence he has on the positives Vogel brings to the table, and how much we're going to miss him. I can't see Shaw coaching a rebuilding team (I believe he declined an offer last year), but if NJ, Detroit, and maybe Philly offer him, he's probably gone.


----------



## RollWithEm

Pacers Fan said:


> Yep. Whoever that guy was who predicted on draft day that Paul George would be the best player in his class in 5 years is looking really good right now. He's already the best player (arguably ahead of John Wall) after 3 years.


The thing that has surprised me the most about Paul George is his combination of calm demeanor and secretly fantastic work ethic. He's actually similar to a young Tim Duncan in those ways.


----------



## R-Star

RollWithEm said:


> The thing that has surprised me the most about Paul George is his combination of calm demeanor and secretly fantastic work ethic. He's actually similar to a young Tim Duncan in those ways.


His demeanor and attitude are reassuring as a fan.

If he was a loud mouth like many of the young players in the game today, I'd be afraid with his contract extension coming up. 

I hope he wears a Pacers jersey for the rest of his career.


----------



## Gonzo

What do you guys think of PJ Carlesimo if Shaw leaves during the offseason?

He seems to like the Pacers


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Gonzo said:


> What do you guys think of PJ Carlesimo if Shaw leaves during the offseason?
> 
> He seems to like the Pacers



Carlesimo would be a good vet addition, although I'm not too familiar with his defense philosophy.


----------



## Gonzo

Bench looked bad, Danny looked horrible, Paul showed some flashes despite foul troubles, and Bulls fans are still morons.

Hopefully the team really builds some chemistry on this trip to the Philippines.


----------



## R-Star

I know its preseason and all, but we're doing terrible here. 

Looks like we rested the big 4 tonight, but still. It would be nice for the team to gel and gain some confidence in these games.


----------



## clownskull

R-Star said:


> I know its preseason and all, but we're doing terrible here.
> 
> Looks like we rested the big 4 tonight, but still. It would be nice for the team to gel and gain some confidence in these games.


i hear ya. i have only seen bits of a few games but have seen comments from others who have been less than impressed with some things.
granted, they aren't interested in winning these games as preseason is relatively meaningless. they are looking more at guys who are going to be guys coming off the bench more than anything.
but apparently the defensive intensity is lacking for one thing. and the houston game in manilla i saw some of the replay and the pacers looked like they were in slow-motion actually. 
so, i hope they are using this to shake off rust and that granger can return at least mostly to prior form.


----------



## Knick Killer

Unfortunately haven't watched any preseason action. How does Danny Granger look?


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----------



## Gonzo

Knick Killer said:


> Unfortunately haven't watched any preseason action. How does Danny Granger look?
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


"Calf" strain


----------



## R-Star

Well boys, looking pretty good eh?

I missed most of the last 2 games but glad to see we're still killing it. I knew George would be better but thought he may still be a bit tentative out there. Looks like I was wrong. He's killing it out there. It looks like he finally gets it that hes a star in this league. Been a while since we've had a legit one of those on this team.

This looks to be shaping up like a hell of a year. Hopefully guys like Rose keep saying things to add fuel to the fire.


----------



## RollWithEm

Paul George has made catch-and-shoot scoring a real strength. He's shooting 55% on C&S threes and 52.4% on C&S plays in general. He scores over 8 points a game on such shots.










As you can see, Lance has also excelled at that in the early season. Wings who can C&S are the staple of great passing teams.


----------



## R-Star

RollWithEm said:


> Paul George has made catch-and-shoot scoring a real strength. He's shooting 55% on C&S threes and 52.4% on C&S plays in general. He scores over 8 points a game on such shots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see, Lance has also excelled at that in the early season. Wings who can C&S are the *staple of great passing teams.*


Well I hope they fair well on teams that can't pass worth this as well then.

We like the turnovers in Indiana. Sorry, that's no accurate. We hate them, but we've come to live with them as a staple of our team.


----------



## RollWithEm

Over 64% of Indy's baskets so far this season have been assisted. That's good for 6th in the league so far.


----------



## R-Star

They're 16th in assists, and I'm not sure where on turnovers, but I'd assume its near the top.

Its only a few games into the season. Trust me, we are not a great passing team. We have good/decent passers, but as a whole we tend to get a lot of turnovers.


----------



## RollWithEm

Pacers are 3rd in TO% but also very high in assisted FGs (as I mentioned above). The starting wings are both scoring extremely well on catch and shoot plays. In order to catch, someone had to have passed it.


----------



## RollWithEm

Pacers could be turning over a new leaf.


----------



## R-Star

RollWithEm said:


> Pacers are 3rd in TO% but also very high in assisted FGs (as I mentioned above). The starting wings are both scoring extremely well on catch and shoot plays. In order to catch, someone had to have passed it.


That's fine. George is shooting 53% right now over last years 42%. And Lance 53% over last years 46%. And even if those shooting numbers stick we still are aren't a great passing team.

Its 4 games in. We aren't a good passing team RWE.


----------



## RollWithEm

We'll update this discussion in a month.


----------



## Basel

I think the Pacers are my favorite team in the East right now. I hope they beat Chicago tonight and show them they're the class of the Central Division.


----------



## RollWithEm

My favorite team to watch in the East this season is still a toss-up between Brooklyn and Orlando.


----------



## R-Star

Tried to watch the game on league pass. Nope. Blacked out. 

I got excited and thought, "Hey, that must mean its on TV right?" No. There's like 6 channels carrying the Raptors vs Bobcats game, but no Pacers Bulls. Makes sense. Who wants to see 2 contenders when you can see they high flying Raptors face the defending champion Bobcats in a nail biter?

Watched the first quarter, got pissed off and went in the hot tub and drank.

League pass is really pissing me off. I have a bad feeling we'll lose tonight. Which sucks because pundits will use the "The Pacer are good........but" bullshit if we don't win this one.


----------



## R-Star

**** yea.


----------



## Knick Killer

5-0.


----------



## Knick Killer

Chris Copeland is getting no love so far. Rasual Butler even played more than he did tonight.


----------



## Gonzo

We're a second half team this year. Remember when we used to fall apart in the 4th?


----------



## Gonzo

"Their success is the Michael Jordan era. This is a new age, this is a new team. It's ours till they take it." 

- Paul George


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Gonzo said:


> We're a second half team this year. Remember when we used to fall apart in the 4th?


Consistency would be better, but I'll take it all day G.


----------



## Knick Killer

8-0.


Wow.


----------



## RollWithEm

Got that scoring differential into the double digits as well. Impressive.


----------



## Gonzo

Didn't catch the game but saw highlights. Tremendous stat line from Hibbert. Good couple plays by Lance. Paul George's no look 15 footer was sweet. 

Love this team, let's get a win in Chicago. This team wanted to start 10-0 and I fully expect it to happen. 


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----------



## Gonzo

Flashes of old last night. Started flat right out of the gate. I did not like what I saw from Vogel's rotations. 


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----------



## Gonzo

http://www.naptowntees.us/product/john-paul-george-ringo


----------



## Knick Killer

Haven't watched enough of Solomon Hill yet to form an opinion. What do you guys think of our rookie so far? 


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----------



## Pacers Fan

Knick Killer said:


> Haven't watched enough of Solomon Hill yet to form an opinion. What do you guys think of our rookie so far?
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Looks like he's fallen out of the rotation to get Copeland some more minutes. He really doesn't do anything. It's easy to not notice him on the floor. He hasn't shot well and he's been extremely timid with his shot selection. He's terrified to dribble more than two or three times, kind of like how George was as a rookie. That said, he's solid on the glass, hasn't been bad on defense, and doesn't really get in the way. He's just a rookie, so he'll take some time. His ceiling is probably as a 10-12 ppg and 6 rpg fringe starter with solid defense. I actually think he'll carve out a career similar to Rasual Butler. While that's not great, I'll take it from such a bad draft.


----------



## Basel

Stephenson with another triple double? Wow.


----------



## Gonzo

Going to the game tonight with Pacers Fan and some other friends. Should be a good time. Haven't really had a chance to watch this team as much I've wanted to so far this season. 


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----------



## Knick Killer

Lance Stephenson has to be in the most improved played discussion.


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----------



## Knick Killer

Heat beat the Bobcats by 1 at home and everyone goes nuts.

Pacers beat the Clippers on the road and barely even gets mentioned.


16-1 and we're still flying under the radar.


----------



## LeGoat06

Knick Killer said:


> Heat beat the Bobcats by 1 at home and everyone goes nuts.
> 
> Pacers beat the Clippers on the road and barely even gets mentioned.
> 
> 
> 16-1 and we're still flying under the radar.


Everyone that watches basketball knows the Pacers are the best team in the league. ESPN just has a man crush on LeBron. as do I


----------



## Gonzo




----------



## Pacers Fan

That was ridiculous. Paul George would not let us die. He almost pulled a Tracy McGrady and Reggie Miller in the same game. Unfortunately, Portland executed flawlessly and made almost all their free throws. Lillard and Mo Williams are too tough to guard out of the pick and roll, and I wish we'd seen more of Hibbert on Aldridge, because David West has no chance.


----------



## R-Star

Tough to lose against one of the other top teams. That could have been yet another statement game for us.

Hibbert and LMA tweeted to each other that they plan on meeting up in the Finals this year. I hope that prediction comes to pass.


----------



## Gonzo

Anyone else not pleased with Vogel's time management last night? Not enough Scola in the 3rd wore David West out just in time for them to start making a run. We go dry so he pulls Paul George and puts in Stephenson who's been handing points to the Blazers all night... His coaching just didn't make a whole lot of sense. Without PG hitting crazy shots, this game would have been a blowout towards the end.


----------



## LeGoat06

George put on a ****ing show last night


----------



## Knick Killer

If you didn't already think we're title contenders, tonight's victory should convince you that we really are. Extremely impressive win on the road in San Antonio.


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----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> If you didn't already think we're title contenders, tonight's victory should convince you that we really are. Extremely impressive win on the road in San Antonio.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Hopefully we can do it again tonight. Beating San An and OKC in back to back games?

That would be a statement for sure.


----------



## clownskull

Gonzo said:


> Anyone else not pleased with Vogel's time management last night? Not enough Scola in the 3rd wore David West out just in time for them to start making a run. We go dry so he pulls Paul George and puts in Stephenson who's been handing points to the Blazers all night... His coaching just didn't make a whole lot of sense. Without PG hitting crazy shots, this game would have been a blowout towards the end.


yeah, i wasn't happy that frank rode west for too long there. the last several plays before he took him out, west was practically crawling up and down the court. frank should have paid closer attention on that.


----------



## R-Star

Is it in here Jamel?

If you just have to randomly search around, I wouldn't consider the archives to be very efficient you know.


----------



## Knick Killer

Anyone else having troubles being heavily invested in the regular season this year with the East being so pathetic? I just wanna fast forward to the playoffs already. 


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----------



## Knick Killer

Also, Solomon Hill got sent down to the d-league. Looking forward to seeing how he does.


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----------



## Gonzo

Knick Killer said:


> Anyone else having troubles being heavily invested in the regular season this year with the East being so pathetic? I just wanna fast forward to the playoffs already.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


I watch the big games but don't really tune in to the middle of the week or random weekend games.


----------



## R-Star

My work switched up for a bit so it changed my normal viewing schedule. 

Normally I try to catch whatever game I can. I agree though that it won't feel like the real season until the playoffs roll around. We've proven ourselves in regular season. Lets actually show something real this post season.


----------



## Knick Killer

I expect Indiana to come back with a vengeance tonight against the Raptors. 


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----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> I expect Indiana to come back with a vengeance tonight against the Raptors.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Hope so. Toronto plays a tough, less talented version of what we've been able to accomplish. We should have this game, but its not like the Raptors of the past where I'd be completely surprised if we lost.


----------



## Knick Killer

This could be a second round preview if the current standings hold up.


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----------



## Knick Killer

Danny Granger looks awesome tonight. When he's on his game, he's a huge weapon off the bench. 


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----------



## Knick Killer

As much as Lance has improved, he still makes some pretty boneheaded mistakes. 


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----------



## Knick Killer

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----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Knick Killer said:


> View attachment 16881
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App



Kinda difficult tweet to understand, or maybe it's just me, but all I know is that our D. is insane.


----------



## R-Star

Saw that on Grantland a few days ago. That's awesome. Bring on the playoffs.


----------



## Knick Killer

You guys have been boring lately. C'mon man...


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----------



## R-Star

Killed it yesterday. That was an awesome game to watch. Lance and Paul were smashing the Knicks, Scola was looking pretty nice too. 




Knick Killer said:


> You guys have been boring lately. C'mon man...
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Its tough. We're finally where we all wanted the team to be, and now its boring? Maybe that's not the right word. I just want the playoffs to start. The rest of the regular season just seems like waiting to me.


----------



## Gonzo




----------



## Knick Killer

Lance does show flashes of being an all-star. Wouldn't surprise me if he made it one year.


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----------



## Gonzo

Knick Killer said:


> Lance does show flashes of being an all-star. Wouldn't surprise me if he made it one year.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


I think we saw last night why Lance is an All-Star


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----------



## Porn Player

Knick Killer said:


> View attachment 16881
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App





PaCeRhOLiC said:


> Kinda difficult tweet to understand, or maybe it's just me, but all I know is that our D. is insane.





R-Star said:


> Saw that on Grantland a few days ago. That's awesome. Bring on the playoffs.


We're catching up... 

Defensive Stats last 20 games



Gonzo said:


> I think we saw last night why Lance is an All-Star
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


This is just you getting overly excited right?


----------



## R-Star

Porn Player said:


> We're catching up...
> 
> Defensive Stats last 20 games
> 
> 
> 
> This is just you getting overly excited right?


We're the top team in the league going into the break. Quite often they get 3 allstars selected.

Lance is leading the league in triple doubles.


----------



## Porn Player

R-Star said:


> We're the top team in the league going into the break. Quite often they get 3 allstars selected.
> 
> Lance is leading the league in triple doubles.


He has 2 triple doubles this year right? So that's kind of a nothing statement. I like him, but he's not an all-star player just yet. Maybe next year when he's doing his thing as a primary player on a bad team. 

Unfortunately and undeservedly, Miami will get 3 all-stars.


----------



## R-Star

Porn Player said:


> He has 2 triple doubles this year right? So that's kind of a nothing statement. I like him, but he's not an all-star player just yet. Maybe next year when he's doing his thing as a primary player on a bad team.
> 
> Unfortunately and undeservedly, Miami will get 3 all-stars.


He has 3. 

Maybe he plays and Toronto gets none.


----------



## Porn Player

R-Star said:


> He has 3.
> 
> Maybe he plays and Toronto gets none.


You think he deserves in over our guys? 

3 triple doubles is nice, but it's hardly blowing any records out of the water. 

Like I said, next year he likely makes it when he is given the keys to an offence.


----------



## R-Star

Porn Player said:


> You think he deserves in over our guys?
> 
> 3 triple doubles is nice, but it's hardly blowing any records out of the water.
> 
> Like I said, next year he likely makes it when he is given the keys to an offence.


Most fully expect Lance to re sign with the team.


----------



## Porn Player

R-Star said:


> Most fully expect Lance to re sign with the team.


Money talks. What kind of salary are you able to offer him?


----------



## R-Star

And yes, I'd see him getting in over Lowry when you consider its the ASG and the Pacers are the top team in the league.


----------



## R-Star

Porn Player said:


> Money talks. What kind of salary are you able to offer him?


Not sure off the top of my head. We have Danny coming off the books, but a lot of that free money goes to George.


----------



## Porn Player

R-Star said:


> And yes, I'd see him getting in over Lowry when you consider its the ASG and the Pacers are the top team in the league.


Being the top team in the league doesn't automatically get you 3 players into the game. 

Lance over Lowry? Not on this planet.


----------



## R-Star

Porn Player said:


> Being the top team in the league doesn't automatically get you 3 players into the game.
> 
> Lance over Lowry? Not on this planet.


Because of the last 20 games?

Their season stats are extremely comparable.

Lance
13.7ppg, 5.1apg, 6.6rpg .502 fg%

Lowry
16.2ppg, 7.4apg, 4.3rpg .434 fg%

Not sure I see the huge difference that you do. Those stats also don't show that Lance is also the superior defender, and of course, is playing on the leagues best team record wise. Both of which garner allstar consideration.


----------



## Knick Killer

Porn Player said:


> Being the top team in the league doesn't automatically get you 3 players into the game.
> 
> Lance over Lowry? Not on this planet.


Hypothetically speaking, would you trade Kyle Lowry for Lance Stephenson?


----------



## Knick Killer

I kinda hope Lance doesn't make the ASG cause then he will want more $$$.


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> I kinda hope Lance doesn't make the ASG cause then he will want more $$$.


Yep. Then again if we win a championship and Lance plays well he'll want more money then as well.

Its not looking good on us getting a bargain on him.


----------



## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> Yep. Then again if we win a championship and Lance plays well he'll want more money then as well.
> 
> Its not looking good on us getting a bargain on him.


If we win a championship, I wont give a damn about what we do with Lance Stephenson.


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> If we win a championship, I wont give a damn about what we do with Lance Stephenson.


Meh, I mean I'll be extremely happy we finally won. But I'd still hope we could keep the team together and compete. 

Lance can be replaced by a defensive specialist 2 guard, but you lose a lot. There isn't a guy in the league I can think of who could step in and fill his role without costing as much as what Lance will demand.


----------



## Porn Player

R-Star said:


> Because of the last 20 games?
> 
> Their season stats are extremely comparable.
> 
> Lance
> 13.7ppg, 5.1apg, 6.6rpg .502 fg%
> 
> Lowry
> 16.2ppg, 7.4apg, 4.3rpg .434 fg%
> 
> Not sure I see the huge difference that you do. Those stats also don't show that Lance is also the superior defender, and of course, is playing on the leagues best team record wise. Both of which garner allstar consideration.


Huge difference? Don't put words in my mouth. I'm not trying to slam Lance here, in fact, I've been quite polite regarding his game. 

Like I keep saying, Lance is a nice player, no doubt about it, but Lowry has better stats over the course of the entire season, over the last 20, over the last 10 etc.. No way does Lance deserve it more than Lowry

Lance is also playing with two all-stars and has one of the best supporting casts in the league. 



Knick Killer said:


> Hypothetically speaking, would you trade Kyle Lowry for Lance Stephenson?


No. KLow is integral to what the Raptors are doing right now, he's the leader of this team and we're playing some of the best ball I have seen from this franchise is nearly 10 years. Lance has a way to go before he reaches that level in my opinion.


----------



## R-Star

Porn Player said:


> Huge difference? Don't put words in my mouth. I'm not trying to slam Lance here, in fact, I've been quite polite regarding his game.
> 
> Like I keep saying, Lance is a nice player, no doubt about it, but Lowry has better stats over the course of the entire season, over the last 20, over the last 10 etc.. No way does Lance deserve it more than Lowry
> 
> Lance is also playing with two all-stars and has one of the best supporting casts in the league.
> 
> 
> 
> No. KLow is integral to what the Raptors are doing right now, he's the leader of this team and we're playing some of the best ball I have seen from this franchise is nearly 10 years. Lance has a way to go before he reaches that level in my opinion.


Lance is scoring just over 2 points less a game while shooting at much better efficiency. Hes also a more competent defender and the best rebounding guard in the league. 

They're comparable stat wise.


----------



## Porn Player

R-Star said:


> Lance is scoring just over 2 points less a game while shooting at much better efficiency. Hes also a more competent defender and the best rebounding guard in the league.
> 
> They're comparable stat wise.


Lowry is a great defender too, what makes Lance more 'competent' than him?

The efficiency comment is pretty redundant too, Lowry is shooting the ball much better than Lance from 3pt land (and a lot more often, so in terms of of TS% Lance is at 57.2% and Kyle is at 58.8%)... So I could argue that Lowry is actually the more efficient player. 

The only conclusion we can take from the stats is that Lowry's are better.


----------



## Knick Killer

They play different positions and have different roles on their respective teams. Kind of hard to compare the two players.


----------



## R-Star

Porn Player said:


> Lowry is a great defender too, what makes Lance more 'competent' than him?
> 
> The efficiency comment is pretty redundant too, Lowry is shooting the ball much better than Lance from 3pt land (and a lot more often, so in terms of of TS% Lance is at 57.2% and Kyle is at 58.8%)... So I could argue that Lowry is actually the more efficient player.
> 
> The only conclusion we can take from the stats is that Lowry's are better.



And the point is, if you can argue their stats are similar, why would an allstar team take Lowry over Lance considering their perspective teams?


----------



## Porn Player

R-Star said:


> And the point is, if you can argue their stats are similar, why would an allstar team take Lowry over Lance considering their perspective teams?


Lowry has the better stats. Lowry is also more influential and important to the W/L column than Lance is for his team, I mean christ, Lance might not even be the 3rd best player on his team at this point.


----------



## R-Star

Porn Player said:


> Lowry has the better stats. Lowry is also more influential and important to the W/L column than Lance is for his team, I mean christ, Lance might not even be the 3rd best player on his team at this point.


And where would Lowry fit in to that on the Pacers? #3 or 4, just like Lance. 

Lance is 2nd in points, 3rd in rebounds and 1st in assists on the Pacers.

I'm not saying Lance is better than Lowry. Hell, I spent multiple posts defending Lowry and DeRozan in that other thread. What I am saying though is as far as the ASG goes, I don't think you can make a case for Lowry being any more deserving than Stephenson at this point.


----------



## Porn Player

R-Star said:


> What I am saying though is as far as the ASG goes, I don't think you can make a case for Lowry being any more deserving than Stephenson at this point.


I think you can, and I think I have. Lowry has the better stats and is more important to his team. 

I think the nature of the Pacers beast means that 3 all-stars at any point will be unrealistic, you're just too good of a 'team'. Miami only gets the nod for 3 guys because they have no depth (although, that has been rectified somewhat and is part of the reason Bosh doesn't deserve to get in this year).


----------



## R-Star

Porn Player said:


> I think you can, and I think I have. Lowry has the better stats and is more important to his team.
> 
> I think the nature of the Pacers beast means that 3 all-stars at any point will be unrealistic, you're just too good of a 'team'. Miami only gets the nod for 3 guys because they have no depth (although, that has been rectified somewhat and is part of the reason Bosh doesn't deserve to get in this year).


Could be true. We will see when the team is announced. 

That being said I stand by saying Lowry would be at the same point of 3rd or 4th on the Pacers if the players were swapped.


----------



## Porn Player

R-Star said:


> Could be true. We will see when the team is announced.
> 
> That being said I stand by saying Lowry would be at the same point of 3rd or 4th on the Pacers if the players were swapped.


It would be interesting to see a very good PG on that Pacers team at the very least.


----------



## R-Star

Porn Player said:


> It would be interesting to see a very good PG on that Pacers team at the very least.


George is now ball dominant and rightfully so. And the team doesn't really run a bunch of PG (point guard, not Paul George) set plays. 

There was talk about Rondo on here in the past, but most Pacer fans agreed we don't run a system for a playmaker to thrive.


----------



## R-Star

Nice game last night. Another solid outing for Lance, and that George dunk were just sick. 

While Danny hasn't been putting up crazy stats, it sure is nice to feel confident when our bench players are out there. I don't worry when Danny comes on to the floor, which is a nice change of the feeling of dread I'd get in the past when I saw Hansbrough/Green/Young come on to the floor. 

Hope we can keep him. He isn't out there chucking trying to put up stats in his contract year, so maybe Danny is looking to stay. Wishful thinking I know, but I hope I'm right.


----------



## Knick Killer

Last night we kicked the Clippers ass, and the Heat barely squeaked past the Bobcats. I love it.


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----------



## Pacers Fan

R-Star said:


> Nice game last night. Another solid outing for Lance, and that George dunk were just sick.
> 
> While Danny hasn't been putting up crazy stats, it sure is nice to feel confident when our bench players are out there. I don't worry when Danny comes on to the floor, which is a nice change of the feeling of dread I'd get in the past when I saw Hansbrough/Green/Young come on to the floor.
> 
> Hope we can keep him. He isn't out there chucking trying to put up stats in his contract year, so maybe Danny is looking to stay. Wishful thinking I know, but I hope I'm right.


Granger's looked pretty good so far this season. He's not shooting it well, but he's scoring, rebounding, and defending well enough. Like you said, he isn't jacking up shots, and his passing game looks great. I love having him post up on the wing as well.

At this point in the season, I really want Granger and Stephenson to return next year. The odd man out might have to be George Hill. He's a solid starting PG, but you don't pay a guy 8 mil/year to average 10/3/3/1. I think we can plug in any random PG of the Hill/Mario Chalmers variety and see similar results. With George and Stephenson as playmakers, having West/Hibbert down low, then Granger spotting up, running off screens, and posting up, we really need our PG to play off the ball, hit 3s, play good defense, and maybe hit a floater every now and then.


----------



## R-Star

Pacers Fan said:


> Granger's looked pretty good so far this season. He's not shooting it well, but he's scoring, rebounding, and defending well enough. Like you said, he isn't jacking up shots, and his passing game looks great. I love having him post up on the wing as well.
> 
> At this point in the season, I really want Granger and Stephenson to return next year. The odd man out might have to be George Hill. He's a solid starting PG, but you don't pay a guy 8 mil/year to average 10/3/3/1. I think we can plug in any random PG of the Hill/Mario Chalmers variety and see similar results. With George and Stephenson as playmakers, having West/Hibbert down low, then Granger spotting up, running off screens, and posting up, we really need our PG to play off the ball, hit 3s, play good defense, and maybe hit a floater every now and then.


I'd much rather Hill over Chalmers, but I see what your saying. 

My big worry with this offseason is how much our team revolves around chemistry. You start yanking out major pieces I don't know how they'll react.


----------



## Knick Killer

I could live without George Hill.


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----------



## Knick Killer

**** yeah! Pacers-Warriors game is actually on TV.


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----------



## Knick Killer

This team is fantastic. It's a blast to watch these guys and see so much improvement from George, Stephenson and Hibbert. Great win in G-state tonight. 


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----------



## Knick Killer

I'm starting to save my pennies in hoping to be able to afford a trip to Indy IF we make the finals. @R-Star you in or out?


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----------



## Knick Killer

That damn thread Paulo created got me thinking far ahead. 


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----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> I'm starting to save my pennies in hoping to be able to afford a trip to Indy IF we make the finals. @R-Star you in or out?
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Finals? ****..... Keep giving me a hard time and hopefully you twist my arm. 

If I can work my schedule around it ahead of time I might just be able to pull it off.

No ones allowed to tell my wife I'm going by myself and meeting up with guys from the internet though.


----------



## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> Finals? ****..... Keep giving me a hard time and hopefully you twist my arm.
> 
> If I can work my schedule around it ahead of time I might just be able to pull it off.
> 
> No ones allowed to tell my wife I'm going by myself and meeting up with guys from the internet though.


I'll meet you guys and we can grab a beer or two


----------



## R-Star

Does Plumlee go off on us tonight for a career night?

I know Green will probably be looking to make a big dunk.


----------



## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> Finals? ****..... Keep giving me a hard time and hopefully you twist my arm.
> 
> If I can work my schedule around it ahead of time I might just be able to pull it off.
> 
> No ones allowed to tell my wife I'm going by myself and meeting up with guys from the internet though.


My mother wouldn't be crazy about the idea of me going by myself and meeting up with the only other Pacers fan in Canada, but it is what it is. 


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----------



## Gonzo

Knick Killer said:


> My mother wouldn't be crazy about the idea of me going by myself and meeting up with the only other Pacers fan in Canada, but it is what it is.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


You're 21, who cares what your mother thinks


----------



## Basel

Gonzo said:


> You're 21, who cares what your mother thinks



His mother.


----------



## Knick Killer

Gonzo said:


> You're 21, who cares what your mother thinks


Never said that would stop me.


Looked up flights from Winnipeg to Indianapolis in June and it is roughly between 400-500 round trip which isn't bad at all. If I can do the trip for around $1000 I'll do it.


----------



## Knick Killer

Anyone catch last nights game? Phoenix dropped 124 points on us. Gerald Green and Miles Plumlee have been great for them. 


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----------



## Gonzo

Knick Killer said:


> Anyone catch last nights game? Phoenix dropped 124 points on us. Gerald Green and Miles Plumlee have been great for them.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


I watched some of it, our defense was not physical enough. A lot of dribbling on offense


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Watched some of the Phoenix game and turned it off in the 4th. when it was obvious we would lose. Bad game, but it happens, just don't repeat it tonight.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

MVPG coming through to save the game yet again.

Had no business winning tonight, but Paul thought otherwise. :yesyesyes:


----------



## Gonzo

We got away with one on that Paul George 4 point play, but I'm proud of our team coming back from what looked like another loss.


----------



## Knick Killer

Paul George was on Jimmy Kimmel tonight. It was a nice little interview and it's cool to see PG getting some attention. 


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----------



## Knick Killer

Gerald Green with 30 points and Miles Plumed added 14 points and 13 rebounds tonight against Philly. Everyone thought we ripped them off but you could argue that Phoenix actually won the trade. Those two have been awesome for them all season.


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----------



## Pacers Fan

Knick Killer said:


> Gerald Green with 30 points and Miles Plumed added 14 points and 13 rebounds tonight against Philly. Everyone thought we ripped them off but you could argue that Phoenix actually won the trade. Those two have been awesome for them all season.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


And Scola's been great for us up until the last few weeks. I still think it was an even trade for both sides. Phoenix got a great return for a guy who had no business being on their roster, and the Pacers got a very skilled backup 4-man to replace Tyler Hansbrough, in exchange for spare parts. Plumlee still wouldn't play more than 5-8 mpg on this team, if that, and you know you wouldn't want Gerald Green in our rotation. And even though this is a great draft, pick #30 is still most likely going to be a waste of a few million dollars.


----------



## Basel

We're kicking your asses tonight.


----------



## Gonzo

Basel said:


> We're kicking your asses tonight.


:vuvuzela:


----------



## Knick Killer

Suns have our number apparently.


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----------



## Knick Killer

Bittersweet feeling on Lance being snubbed from the all-star game. Might save us some cash but he definitely deserved to be on the team.


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----------



## R-Star

Any update on Lance? That was a hard fall last night.


----------



## RollWithEm

R-Star said:


> Any update on Lance? That was a hard fall last night.


Did he get hurt on the play where he made that circus shot?


----------



## R-Star

RollWithEm said:


> Did he get hurt on the play where he made that circus shot?


Left the game shortly after.

Wasn't anyone's fault, just one of those "Oh shit" type of plays.


----------



## Gonzo

When this Paul George story hits the local news, how much do you think it will hurt his popularity?

I hope he keeps it wrapped up during All-Star weekend.


----------



## R-Star

It won't help, that's for sure. Hes always seemed like a squeaky clean guy prior to this.


----------



## R-Star

Big win. Great night by Hill and West.

Glad to see you won a tough game with one of our best players out of the lineup.


----------



## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> Big win. Great night by Hill and West.
> 
> Glad to see you won a tough game with one of our best players out of the lineup.


It's pretty cool that from 1-5, anyone on our starting lineup is capable of leading us to victory. George Hill was awesome last night.


----------



## R-Star

The Magic huh?


****........


----------



## Pacers Fan

R-Star said:


> The Magic huh?
> 
> 
> ****........


That sucked. I didn't watch much, but I tuned in when the Pacers were up big, tuned out to do some reading for my law class, tuned back in for the hell of it when they were only up 6 or so and thought "no biggie," tuned out for more reading, and then I turned it back on only to see us down 5. So, even if we played like shit in most of the 3rd and the 4th and lost a huge lead, I was really impressed with how well we played in those last 3 minutes. We kept giving ourselves chances even though we were getting no calls down the stretch.


----------



## Gonzo

Disappointed in Paul George's decision on that final play, though. Not only did he not pass to anyone open, he took a horrible, double teamed 15 foot fadeaway that had no chance.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Gonzo said:


> Disappointed in Paul George's decision on that final play, though. Not only did he not pass to anyone open, he took a horrible, double teamed 15 foot fadeaway that had no chance.


Triple-teamed, I think. I couldn't tell if he was hit or not, but I assumed so because of how short the shot was. And he did have Hill open on the wing, and I believe someone else nearby as well. He also bricked that go-ahead 3, when he could've driven right by an off-balance Vucevic for a layup.

That said, Frank Vogel should've called a time-out as soon as we got that ball.


----------



## Gonzo

Pacers Fan said:


> Triple-teamed, I think. I couldn't tell if he was hit or not, but I assumed so because of how short the shot was. And he did have Hill open on the wing, and I believe someone else nearby as well. He also bricked that go-ahead 3, when he could've driven right by an off-balance Vucevic for a layup.
> 
> That said, Frank Vogel should've called a time-out as soon as we got that ball.


Buckner said Hill and West were open. Should've passed to West...

I think he got fouled but you can't count on getting the call that late in the game. He's lucky he got the calls on his 3 pointers against the Knicks and Kings.

I was surprised Vogel didn't call timeout, but we know he's stingy with those. Oh well.


----------



## Knick Killer

Bounced back from that Orlando game with an ass kicking against Denver. That's what I like to see.


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----------



## Gonzo

Knick Killer said:


> Bounced back from that Orlando game with an ass kicking against Denver. That's what I like to see.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Too bad I missed the game, I would have much rather watched it than the Orlando game.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> Too bad I missed the game, I would have much rather watched it than the Orlando game.


Hopefully you didn't catch last nights game.


----------



## Knick Killer

Bench scored a season high 50 points last night. The legend knows what he's doing.


----------



## Knick Killer

We're winning games but not exactly crushing teams. Beat Utah at home...by 3.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Knick Killer said:


> We're winning games but not exactly crushing teams. Beat Utah at home...by 3.



I thought for sure Hayward was going to make that last 3, but even if he did, I had no doubt that we were going to get the W.

That was a nasty fall by George though, reminded me of how Lance fell before. I wouldn't be surprised if he missed at least 1 game.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Knick Killer said:


> We're winning games but not exactly crushing teams. Beat Utah at home...by 3.


Yup. But the crazy thing is that like Pacerholic, I had no doubts that we were going to win that game. Sure, I was a little concerned when we went down in the 1st quarter that we would let them go up 20 and we would struggle to come back. But we kept coming back. When we needed to, we turned it on and got right back in the game. It was a little concerning how good their bigs were on the glass, and they also gave our guards a lot of trouble with their drives. I'm glad we won't have to face anyone in the playoffs with Utah's size, until the finals.

Also, Roy Hibbert is one of the most inconsistent players I've ever seen.

What does everyone think of Evan Turner so far?


----------



## Gonzo

Knick Killer said:


> We're winning games but not exactly crushing teams. Beat Utah at home...by 3.


We played in Boston the night before. I wasn't expecting us to crush Utah.

Evan Turner was running the point late on Saturday night... I thought that was interesting.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC

Pacers Fan said:


> What does everyone think of Evan Turner so far?


He's been doing everything I pretty much expected him to do, although his defense could be a little better. 

I like the fact that he takes it in the paint and looks to be aggressive rather than standing around looking to shoot it.

He'll get much better as he gets more comfortable with the team, but so far, I love what I'm seeing.


----------



## Knick Killer

Pacers Fan said:


> Yup. But the crazy thing is that like Pacerholic, I had no doubts that we were going to win that game. Sure, I was a little concerned when we went down in the 1st quarter that we would let them go up 20 and we would struggle to come back. But we kept coming back. When we needed to, we turned it on and got right back in the game. It was a little concerning how good their bigs were on the glass, and they also gave our guards a lot of trouble with their drives. I'm glad we won't have to face anyone in the playoffs with Utah's size, until the finals.
> 
> *Also, Roy Hibbert is one of the most inconsistent players I've ever seen.*
> What does everyone think of Evan Turner so far?


I'm okay with his regular season inconsistent play as long as he continues to dominate in the playoffs.


----------



## Gonzo

I caught the last 7 minutes of last nights game. We were down 12 and came storming back with a 12-0 run fueled by good ball movement. Then we fall into old offensive habits of just pounding the ball, not looking like we know what we're doing, and Paul takes a horrible fadeaway jumper. Golden State tightened their defense, but I'm still not convinced that Frank Vogel has the ability to call a good play down the stretch.


----------



## Knick Killer

Can someone please tell me how we only scored 8 points in the first quarter tonight and lost to the Bobcats?


----------



## Knick Killer

3 losses in a row...


----------



## Pacers Fan

This sucks. We'll turn it around, though.


----------



## Knick Killer

4 in a row...


----------



## Pacers Fan

I'm starting to feel like Philly ripped us off in the Danny Granger trade. Turner has his moments on offense when he hits some mid-range jumpers or makes some nice passes, but he's just atrocious at everything else. He's unathletic, has no range outside 16 feet, and then.... his defense. I get that he's slow and it's tough for him to stay in front of people, but he has zero concept of team defense. Like, he makes Lance Stephenson look like an All-NBA 1st Team defender out there. Hopefully that's just him adjusting to our defense. Right now he looks Adam Morrison bad on defense.


----------



## Basel

Better for the Pacers to have this happen to them now and start making adjustments than have it happen in the playoffs.


----------



## Knick Killer

Bynum impressive debut...


----------



## R-Star

If this team had a face I'd fly down to Indiana and punch it. 

Then I'd yell something like "Smarten up!"


----------



## Basel

R-Star said:


> If this team had a face I'd fly down to Indiana and punch it.
> 
> Then I'd yell something like "Smarten up!"



That'll teach them!


----------



## R-Star

See, Basel gets it.


----------



## clownskull

very impressive comeback. i thought they were toast before halftime. but, they played like they wanted to win in the 2nd half.
nice to see the team actually care again.


----------



## Gonzo

Gay man claims he catfished Paul George into sending naked pics











:jr:


----------



## R-Star

Maybe George should concentrate on not playing like absolute shit instead of pretending to he's JR Smith or Dwyane Wade in his spare time.

Guys been a ****ing chump half the games hes played recently.


----------



## R-Star

As I feared, I think these drastic changes to our chemistry hurt the team.

Granger might not have been the best player in the world at this point, but he was a huge part of the locker room and the teams identity. 

We were doing well. Not sure why they had to **** around with the team when it had been playing its best ball in over a decade.


----------



## RollWithEm

R-Star said:


> As I feared, I think these drastic changes to our chemistry hurt the team.
> 
> Granger might not have been the best player in the world at this point, but he was a huge part of the locker room and the teams identity.
> 
> We were doing well. Not sure why they had to **** around with the team when it had been playing its best ball in over a decade.


There are a little over three weeks until the playoffs, and then they'll have a cake walk first round after that to get their chemistry together. It can be done.


----------



## Marcus13

If Im the Pacers, Im getting more concerned over Paul George. His struggles on the court are one thing but these issues he's getting himself into off the court are a bigger issue. He just seems like more of a knucklehead than I ever took him for. Youre a ****in NBA Superstar - why are you sending ANYBODY nude pics, let alone a bitch you don't even know? I know other athletes have been caught with groupies and cheating, but it seems he is taking that to a whole new level.


----------



## R-Star

Marcus13 said:


> If Im the Pacers, Im getting more concerned over Paul George. His struggles on the court are one thing but these issues he's getting himself into off the court are a bigger issue. He just seems like more of a knucklehead than I ever took him for. Youre a ****in NBA Superstar - why are you sending ANYBODY nude pics, let alone a bitch you don't even know? I know other athletes have been caught with groupies and cheating, but it seems he is taking that to a whole new level.


Hes making the whole team look bad. I think these issues have been part of his on court struggles as well.


----------



## R-Star

RollWithEm said:


> There are a little over three weeks until the playoffs, and then they'll have a cake walk first round after that to get their chemistry together. It can be done.


Oh yea, I agree. We can still turn it around. Its just frustrating to see this team lose its identity while going down the stretch.


----------



## clownskull

R-Star said:


> As I feared, I think these drastic changes to our chemistry hurt the team.
> 
> Granger might not have been the best player in the world at this point, but he was a huge part of the locker room and the teams identity.
> 
> We were doing well. Not sure why they had to **** around with the team when it had been playing its best ball in over a decade.


eh, i'd say the additions had little to do with it. they have been playing progressively worse since before the all-star break. 
they have not been playing anything approaching team ball for a long time.
it has devolved to the point that they are now struggling to beat ANYONE.
pg has turned into a whining, selfish chucker while roy has turned super-soft. lance became infatuated with the razzle-dazzle passes almost every time. when he isn't dominating the ball, pg is.
frank needs to get these problems addressed NOW. if the issues are not dealt with to get this fixed asap, do not expect to see this team playing miami in the ecf's


----------



## Gonzo

Marcus13 said:


> If Im the Pacers, Im getting more concerned over Paul George. His struggles on the court are one thing but these issues he's getting himself into off the court are a bigger issue. He just seems like more of a knucklehead than I ever took him for. Youre a ****in NBA Superstar - why are you sending ANYBODY nude pics, let alone a bitch you don't even know? I know other athletes have been caught with groupies and cheating, but it seems he is taking that to a whole new level.


He came out and stated they were sent to a woman (Callie Rivers?) and she sent them to some guy who wrote the story. If that's true, it's not a big deal.


I'm starting to wonder about Frank Vogel's inability to coach this team through their slump. Their attitude on the court makes them look like a bunch of 16 year old girls.


----------



## Marcus13

Gonzo said:


> He came out and stated they were sent to a woman (Callie Rivers?) and she sent them to some guy who wrote the story. If that's true, it's not a big deal.
> .


In theory, I'd agree. If he sent them to Callie and Callie (maybe as revenge for getting another girl pregnant?) sent them to this dude to make a story...I get it. Could very well be these off the court issues/stories are mounting and taking his concentration off his game too (which is also an area where your coach should be stepping in)


----------



## Knick Killer

First time we scored less than 80 points in back to back games since 2007.

I'm definitely concerned, but not ready to push the panic button. The way they're playing lately is obvious that they think they're a lock for the ECF and that they can coast until then.


----------



## clownskull

Knick Killer said:


> First time we scored less than 80 points in back to back games since 2007.
> 
> I'm definitely concerned, but not ready to push the panic button. The way they're playing lately is obvious that they think they're a lock for the ECF and that they can coast until then.


if they really think they can coast til the ecf's, they won't even get the chance to find out. the way they have been playing for a good 2 months- they struggle against anyone.


----------



## Knick Killer

clownskull said:


> if they really think they can coast til the ecf's, they won't even get the chance to find out. the way they have been playing for a good 2 months- they struggle against anyone.


I agree but they'll show up for the playoffs I guarantee it.


----------



## Knick Killer

Wasn't pretty but that was a huge win over Miami. It would take a huge collapse to lose the 1st seed now.


----------



## R-Star

Really ****ing inconsistent. I'm not trust this team to beat anyone in a 7 game series.

Could we? Sure. Can anyone be confident against even the 8th seed team?

I know I'm not at this point.


----------



## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> Really ****ing inconsistent. I'm not trust this team to beat anyone in a 7 game series.
> 
> Could we? Sure. Can anyone be confident against even the 8th seed team?
> 
> I know I'm not at this point.


I'm not pushing the panic button yet.


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> I'm not pushing the panic button yet.


I did back when we dropped Granger. This team can beat any team on any given night, but its lost its identity. 

Its like Bird and Walsh thought they were playing NBA2K14 or something.

Not to mention I liked late last year/early this year Lance, but new Lance just dominates the ball and throws up contested shots. I ****ing hate him again.


----------



## clownskull

R-Star said:


> I did back when we dropped Granger. This team can beat any team on any given night, but its lost its identity.
> 
> Its like Bird and Walsh thought they were playing NBA2K14 or something.
> 
> Not to mention I liked late last year/early this year Lance, but new Lance just dominates the ball and throws up contested shots. I ****ing hate him again.


the team had problems well before the granger trade.


----------



## clownskull

this team has quit.
they may not win another game.


----------



## clownskull

Knick Killer said:


> Wasn't pretty but that was a huge win over Miami. It would take a huge collapse to lose the 1st seed now.


oh, that #1 seed is totally gone. bank on it.
they are now playing the worst basketball in the entire league.


----------



## Knick Killer




----------



## R-Star

clownskull said:


> the team had problems well before the granger trade.


Problems, sure. But anywhere near the shit level they've been playing since? No.

I think his voice is missed on the bench and in the locker room.

Especially with George sending out dick pics and getting chicks pregnant, or whatever it is he's doing in his spare time instead of practicing to play good basketball.


----------



## Tom

The problem is George...he is their leader and his being a little bitch.


----------



## LeGoat06

I think I was one of the few guys that was with R-star and said that the Granger trade was going to hurt them because of chemistry. If they get to the ECF though and play the Heat anything can happen. Shit chemistry, shit play, bad losing streak none of it matters. Those teams play each other so tough and know each other so well I would be surprised at any outcome other than a game 7


----------



## Marcus13

a 1-8 Pacers-Knick matchup is a scary, scary thought for Indiana fans.


----------



## R-Star

We've shown we can beat any team in the league in a 7 game series as far as I'm concerned. We've also shown that we could go into a series with almost any team in the league and get swept. 

This post season is going to be a gong show. David West needs to start slapping guys like PG and Lance upside the head.

George looks like he doesn't give a **** half the time, and Lance is trying to ball his way into a star contract. This team is a disgrace from where we were to start the season.


----------



## R-Star

clownskull said:


> the team had problems well before the granger trade.


You know what, I'm coming back to this post and calling bullshit.

We were 41-13 with Granger, and are 11-10 without. 

Like **** it has nothing to do with how we're playing currently.


----------



## Knick Killer

Marcus13 said:


> a 1-8 Pacers-Knick matchup is a scary, scary thought for Indiana fans.


No not really.


----------



## clownskull

R-Star said:


> You know what, I'm coming back to this post and calling bullshit.
> 
> We were 41-13 with Granger, and are 11-10 without.
> 
> Like **** it has nothing to do with how we're playing currently.


that's fine. call it if you like but, there is an excellent article from sbnation that describes in great detail the reasons why the pacers are having the problems they are.
and it isn't all or mostly because danny granger isn't around with his sub 36% shooting.
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/4/2/5569908/indiana-pacers-offense-struggles-paul-george


----------



## clownskull

Knick Killer said:


> No not really.


well, unless guys get back to doing the basics like actually setting screens- they won't beat anyone in the playoffs and might not win another game.
they never get easy shots anymore. and the sbnation article gives a great description of their problems.
i strongly suggest reading it. i agree with it entirely.


----------



## Knick Killer

clownskull said:


> well, unless guys get back to doing the basics like actually setting screens- they won't beat anyone in the playoffs and might not win another game.
> they never get easy shots anymore. and the sbnation article gives a great description of their problems.
> i strongly suggest reading it. i agree with it entirely.


What the article is saying makes sense, and the best part is those are all minor things that can easily be fixed.


----------



## clownskull

Knick Killer said:


> What the article is saying makes sense, and the best part is those are all minor things that can easily be fixed.


yes, they are and can be. but if they don't actually make the commitment to fix them- their struggles will continue.
setting effective screens, making the right passes at the right times and fix the bad spacing issues will GREATLY increase the chances of scoring more than 80 points a game which the pacers have been struggling to do for far too long.


----------



## Knick Killer

Big win over Detroit. We actually scored over a 100 points so that's a good sign of potentially getting over this hump.


----------



## LeGoat06

Knick Killer said:


> Big win over Detroit. We actually scored over a 100 points so that's a good sign of potentially getting over this hump.


LOL DETROIT ???? !!!!! THE SAME TEAM THAT JUST ENDED THE SIXERS 26 LOSING STREAK ????!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LULZ


----------



## R-Star

clownskull said:


> that's fine. call it if you like but, there is an excellent article from sbnation that describes in great detail the reasons why the pacers are having the problems they are.
> and it isn't all or mostly because danny granger isn't around with his sub 36% shooting.
> http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/4/2/5569908/indiana-pacers-offense-struggles-paul-george


I have an article I can post too, showing how our defense has fallen off the deep end since the Granger trade, and how Paul George ran to twitter to write how much the trade would change team chemistry. I mean, I George wrong about it too, or is it just me?

And we can shit all over Dannys stats, deservedly so, but has Turner been doing all the much better? No.

This is part of the reason I hate analytics. There's a lot more going on in with a basketball team than just looking at their stats. 

You either believe that A) The team chemistry was broken when Danny was traded out of nowhere to everyones surprise. Or B) Its just a weird coincidence that the wheels fell off the Pacers the same time Granger was traded and we're having to high five over wins in Detroit now.

The answers pretty obvious to me.


----------



## RollWithEm

R-Star said:


> You either believe that A) The team chemistry was broken when Danny was traded out of nowhere to everyones surprise. Or B) Its just a weird coincidence that the wheels fell off the Pacers the same time Granger was traded and we're having to high five over wins in Detroit now.


I believe that neither of those things tells the whole story. I believe that the team had a generally fragile psyche that was neither bolstered by Granger nor damaged by Turner. If Bird had traded Lance for Monta Ellis, I still think they would've struggled. If he had moved George Hill and DWest for LaMarcus Aldridge (while keeping Granger), it would have been a similar result.

I think this team just generally thought they were the best team in the East (if not the whole league) before any deals were made. Then, their management team started making moves to improve them in ways that they thought the roster needed improvement. I believe they collectively felt insulted and undermined... that their accomplishments up until the moves were being disrespected by the front office. It broke them a little. The specific players involved weren't all that relevant.


----------



## Knick Killer

LeGoat06 said:


> LOL DETROIT ???? !!!!! THE SAME TEAM THAT JUST ENDED THE SIXERS 26 LOSING STREAK ????!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LULZ



It doesn't matter who the opponent was, cause as of late we've looked like we couldn't even beat Philly.


----------



## LeGoat06

Knick Killer said:


> It doesn't matter who the opponent was, cause as of late we've looked like we couldn't even beat Philly.


True.


----------



## R-Star

RollWithEm said:


> I believe that neither of those things tells the whole story. I believe that the team had a generally fragile psyche that was neither bolstered by Granger nor damaged by Turner. If Bird had traded Lance for Monta Ellis, I still think they would've struggled. If he had moved George Hill and DWest for LaMarcus Aldridge (while keeping Granger), it would have been a similar result.
> 
> I think this team just generally thought they were the best team in the East (if not the whole league) before any deals were made. Then, their management team started making moves to improve them in ways that they thought the roster needed improvement. I believe they collectively felt insulted and undermined... that their accomplishments up until the moves were being disrespected by the front office. It broke them a little. The specific players involved weren't all that relevant.


Which is exactly why I said don't fix what isn't broken when they started with the whole Bynum nonsense and then trading Granger.

I still think Granger was a lot larger part of this teams identity than people give him credit for though. And George saw him as an older brother/mentor type of role.


----------



## RollWithEm

R-Star said:


> Which is exactly why I said don't fix what isn't broken when they started with the whole Bynum nonsense and then trading Granger.
> 
> I still think Granger was a lot larger part of this teams identity than people give him credit for though. And George saw him as an older brother/mentor type of role.


Perhaps Granger was more important that just his production (or lack thereof) let on. Still, George was already struggling for several weeks before Granger got moved. He's been on a downward trend for a couple months and change.

I don't think Paul George and Roy Hibbert give each other enough credit for being equally important in this team's success. That's another potential problem with their overall team psyche.


----------



## Knick Killer

No Kyle Lowry or Amir Johnson for the Raps tonight. Hopefully we learnt from Houston's loss to Toronto that you can't take these guys lightly even without two of their best players.


----------



## Knick Killer

Valanciunas is destroying Hibbert tonight. Ugh.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Knick Killer said:


> Valanciunas is destroying Hibbert tonight. Ugh.


Everyone's been destroying Hibbert since the new year started.


----------



## Knick Killer

Hibbert doesn't even look like he's trying on either end of the floor, that's the frustrating part.


----------



## Knick Killer

He doesn't even put a hand up on shots like what the **** is the matter with you? And Larry Birds biggest goal for the offseason has to be to find a true point guard. George Hill has got to go.


----------



## R-Star

**** me...


----------



## R-Star

Way to go Lance. Throw up some crazy shit that has no chance of going in.


----------



## R-Star

Drake put his coat on. That's all she wrote.


----------



## Knick Killer

We're ****ed.


----------



## R-Star

Somethings not right. That's for damn sure.


----------



## Pacers Fan

R-Star said:


> Somethings not right. That's for damn sure.


I'm not concerned. We played well last night, although Toronto's length made us timid and their defense caused some problems. I thought the team as a whole played well, though, which we haven't seen in a while, even if we completely failed down the stretch. Need more from Hibbert, Hill, Lance, and Turner, though. I just wish we'd taken advantage of Miami losing.


----------



## R-Star

Pacers Fan said:


> I'm not concerned. We played well last night, although Toronto's length made us timid and their defense caused some problems. I thought the team as a whole played well, though, which we haven't seen in a while, even if we completely failed down the stretch. Need more from Hibbert, Hill, Lance, and Turner, though. I just wish we'd taken advantage of Miami losing.


Concerned now?


----------



## Pacers Fan

R-Star said:


> Concerned now?


Yep. Wow.


----------



## Adam

Andrew Bynum must have run over a gypsy with his handicap space taking sports car. He's carrying around some bad mojo.


----------



## HKF

Should have never signed Bynum. He is a cancer.


----------



## Knick Killer

So...what the **** happened against Atlanta?


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> So...what the **** happened against Atlanta?


Our team of babies hopefully hit rock bottom. I mean it can't get any worse right?

There's reports of George and Hibbert arguing. Reports of Lance and Hill arguing. 

Its all just falling apart. 


While I take no joy in being right this time, I called it. I don't care what bullshit anyone says about "No no, its because of something else." I ****ing called it. When we picked up head case Bynum I called it. When we traded Granger for Turner I called it. 

You don't **** with a team who's whole identity is their team chemistry. I'd almost be happy to blow it up at this point. This team disgusts me.


----------



## Knick Killer

I think if we lose in the first or second round, we fire Vogel. You can't let a team with this much talent spiral out of control like this.


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> I think if we lose in the first or second round, we fire Vogel. You can't let a team with this much talent spiral out of control like this.


Fire Bird too if you're firing Vogel. 

Frank's not the one who made the trades. 

I've never been Vogels biggest fan, but to go from coaching the team to tops in the league to..... whatever this is, its not all on coaching. 

The roster changes didn't need to be made. Someone has to answer for this.


----------



## Marcus13

Cut Bynum now.

I don't care if he hasn't necessarily done anything to deserve it - cut him.


----------



## Knick Killer

If we somehow pull it together and make a run to the finals, bumping these old posts will be hilarious.


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> If we somehow pull it together and make a run to the finals, bumping these old posts will be hilarious.


And if we don't, are people still going to come up with excuses on how I wasn't right, or are some of the guys on this forum finally going to admit they were wrong?


----------



## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> And if we don't, are people still going to come up with excuses on how I wasn't right, or are some of the guys on this forum finally going to admit they were wrong?



Give it a rest old man.


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> Give it a rest old man.


Why?

When we signed Bynum I said it was a terrible move. You were doing back flips saying how great it was.

Same with Granger for Turner, and Turner hasn't been any better than Danny, plus we're on a not so mysterious free fall since losing him.

And your response is to point out our team is in free fall, but refuse to acknowledge why?

At least be a man about it. I was right, you were wrong. Pretty cut and dry here.


----------



## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> Why?
> 
> When we signed Bynum I said it was a terrible move. You were doing back flips saying how great it was.
> 
> Same with Granger for Turner, and Turner hasn't been any better than Danny, plus we're on a not so mysterious free fall since losing him.
> 
> And your response is to point out our team is in free fall, but refuse to acknowledge why?
> 
> At least be a man about it. I was right, you were wrong. Pretty cut and dry here.


Nobody is right or wrong...yet. The season isn't over and the playoffs haven't even started. Am I panicking? You bet your ass I am, but at the same time, we're not eliminated yet and still have some time to figure our shit out. Does it seem likely that we will? Probably not, but there is still a chance.


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> Nobody is right or wrong...yet. The season isn't over and the playoffs haven't even started. Am I panicking? You bet your ass I am, but at the same time, we're not eliminated yet and still have some time to figure our shit out. Does it seem likely that we will? Probably not, but there is still a chance.


I never said there's not a chance for them to right the ship. All I'm saying is I word for word predicted this exact scenario and the whole forum called me crazy. 

At some point people are going to have to come to terms with that and admit it.


In other news, looks like we might rest the starters for the rest of the season. I was going to suggest the same move. Have to try something. Although conceding the first seed to Miami stings a bit.


----------



## R-Star

Looks like its all going to come down to our game Friday against the Heat. If we can win that one, we should be able tog take the lead back. 

I say rest the starters vs the Bucks, maybe see if you can get them on Doctor Phil before the Miami game and get everything sorted out, then go all out against the Heat and try to right the ship before playoffs.


----------



## Knick Killer

Tell your guys to ease up in the second half and let the Pacers led by Donald Sloan and Rasual Butler win tonight. 
@Bubbles @roux


----------



## Knick Killer

Tell your guys to ease up in the second half. Let the Pacers led by Donald Sloan and Rasual Butler win tonight. 
@Bubbles @roux


----------



## Knick Killer

Chris Copeland hits the game winner! Really cool to see the Pacers bench step up and get us a big win on the road.


----------



## roux

Knick Killer said:


> Chris Copeland hits the game winner! Really cool to see the Pacers bench step up and get us a big win on the road.


That's one hell of an impressive loss for the Bucks.. I was pretty nervous we were going to give one back to Philly tonight.


----------



## Knick Killer

roux said:


> That's one hell of an impressive loss for the Bucks.. I was pretty nervous we were going to give one back to Philly tonight.


You guys sure give Brandon Knight the green light.


----------



## R-Star

Well that went well for us. Huge game in Miami now. I hope the starters got all their tears out and are ready to step up and play.


----------



## Knick Killer

Wade not playing tonight for Miami.


----------



## Basel

Knick Killer said:


> Wade not playing tonight for Miami.



Shocker.


----------



## LeGoat06

Basel said:


> Shocker.


D Wade is the Pacers MVP this year. I hate him so much.


----------



## Marcus13

D-Wade just needs to retire after the season. Dude is going to be 38 in a wheelchair


----------



## R-Star

Marcus13 said:


> D-Wade just needs to retire after the season. Dude is going to be 38 in a wheelchair


From what? Not every playing a single game of basketball?


Hes a pussy, not some injured warrior. Health wise Lebron is probably more banged up. Wade just knows he can get away with it and really just doesn't ****ing care.

Watch for plenty of moments in the playoff where hes running around full tilt dunking and blocking, then wincing like someone shot him in the leg after he misses a jumper.

Hes just a piece of shit.


----------



## LeGoat06

R-Star said:


> From what? Not every playing a single game of basketball?
> 
> 
> Hes a pussy, not some injured warrior. Health wise Lebron is probably more banged up. Wade just knows he can get away with it and really just doesn't ****ing care.
> 
> Watch for plenty of moments in the playoff where hes running around full tilt dunking and blocking, then wincing like someone shot him in the leg after his misses a jumper.
> 
> Hes just a piece of shit.


So perfectly worded that it's almost sig worthy.


----------



## Marcus13

R-Star said:


> From what? Not every playing a single game of basketball?
> 
> Hes a pussy, not some injured warrior. Health wise Lebron is probably more banged up. Wade just knows he can get away with it and really just doesn't ****ing care.
> 
> Watch for plenty of moments in the playoff where hes running around full tilt dunking and blocking, then wincing like someone shot him in the leg after he misses a jumper.
> 
> Hes just a piece of shit.


You may very well be right I suppose. I'm sure there are games this season he could've played that he chose to sat out of...but tonight's game is the closest thing you can have to a playoff game during the regular season. I figured he'd give it a go tonight and sit out tomorrow against Washington.
Maybe you're right though...maybe he just really doesn't give a ****.


----------



## R-Star

Marcus13 said:


> You may very well be right I suppose. I'm sure there are games this season he could've played that he chose to sat out of...but tonight's game is the closest thing you can have to a playoff game during the regular season. I figured he'd give it a go tonight and sit out tomorrow against Washington.
> Maybe you're right though...maybe he just really doesn't give a ****.


He doesn't. Lets even say Wades at 90%. If Lebron was 90% tonight would he sit out? Against the Pacers in the game that will decide the #1 seed? Not a chance.

Wade doesn't care, and in my opinion is also a coward.


----------



## LeGoat06

R-Star said:


> He doesn't. Lets even say Wades at 90%. If Lebron was 90% tonight would he sit out? Against the Pacers in the game that will decide the #1 seed? Not a chance.
> 
> Wade doesn't care, and in my opinion is also a coward.


Idk if he's a coward. But at this point it's pretty much a fact he doesn't care.


----------



## Pyrex

Id take Wade the coward over a C that couldn't play in the wnba right now. You guys are effed.


----------



## King Joseus

:|


----------



## Knick Killer

King Joseus said:


> :|



Do you ever post anything interesting? All you ever post is a vague facial expression that I have no idea what you're referring to.


----------



## Knick Killer

Pissed we lost but if you look at the bright side, the 2nd seed actually has an easier path to the ECF. No offense to my boys in Toronto.


----------



## R-Star

Pyrex said:


> Id take Wade the coward over a C that couldn't play in the wnba right now. You guys are effed.


Compared to what, Chris Anderson or Greg Oden? :laugh:


Post in here more junior. While our team is playing like shit it might take our mind off it to kick a Lebron fanboy like you around every once in a while.


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> Pissed we lost but if you look at the bright side, the 2nd seed actually has an easier path to the ECF. No offense to my boys in Toronto.


Who cares at this point? The team is broken. We don't have a shot at the title, that's for sure.

George was playing like shit, none of his passes were on point, and Hibbert looked scared out there. Somethings happened that no one knows about yet. Like George slept with Hibberts girlfriend. Or West and Vogel are gay for each other or something. Because if the answer is just Roy being so mentally fragile that picking up Bynum hurt his feelings so bad that he can't play anymore, and that George can't get his head straight after losing Granger and sending dick picks and getting caught for some stripper strange, then I ****ing hate this team.


----------



## Adam

It's like the universe decided to run up behind R-Star, pants him, and then smack him with a pie in the face. Andrew Bynum? Paul George illegitimate stripper babies and dick pics? The Pacers finally relevant again only to fracture in the time it takes to cook ramen? You couldn't script this it's so unbelievable.


----------



## R-Star

Adam said:


> It's like the universe decided to run up behind R-Star, pants him, and then smack him with a pie in the face. Andrew Bynum? Paul George illegitimate stripper babies and dick pics? The Pacers finally relevant again only to fracture in the time it takes to cook ramen? You couldn't script this it's so unbelievable.


So much so that I can't even defend myself. This is happening, and I just have to sit back and take it like a punk.


----------



## R-Star

After what could be a historic collapse in the playoffs, do you guys think its time to try for a new point guard? A pass first guard to set up our guys, since they've proven they can't create their own shots consistently?

I used to think the idea was ridiculous because of how we play, but I think its time to try to move for a guy like Rondo. I've been defending George Hill for a long time now, but I've lost patience with it. He does pretty much nothing for our team. 

Maybe a sign and traded Lance and George Hill for Rondo? See if we can get Turner to resign for a decent price to replace Lance and we're good to go.


----------



## PauloCatarino

R-Star said:


> After what could be a historic collapse in the playoffs, do you guys think its time to try for a new point guard? A pass first guard to set up our guys, since they've proven they can't create their own shots consistently?
> 
> I used to think the idea was ridiculous because of how we play, but I think its time to try to move for a guy like Rondo. I've been defending George Hill for a long time now, but I've lost patience with it. He does pretty much nothing for our team.
> 
> Maybe a sign and traded Lance and George Hill for Rondo? See if we can get Turner to resign for a decent price to replace Lance and we're good to go.


Admiting defeat already, huh? I'll make sure to bump this after the Pacers win the ring this year. There will be no bragging rights for you!


----------



## R-Star

PauloCatarino said:


> Admiting defeat already, huh? I'll make sure to bump this after the Pacers win the ring this year. There will be no bragging rights for you!


My bragging rights come from word for word predicting this collapse the moment they signed Bynum.


----------



## Basel

Somehow you guys are still 1st in the East. Big game against the Thunder today.


----------



## R-Star

Basel said:


> Somehow you guys are still 1st in the East. Big game against the Thunder today.


At this point it will almost be just as frustrating if the Pacers of old show up and win the game.

At that point I'd feel like a woman with an abusive boyfriend. He's just beat me for weeks, but then takes me out for a nice candlelight dinner to remind me why I love him.


----------



## R-Star

If we do win tonight we should have #1 all wrapped up though. Miami has the Wizards in their next game which should be a win, and then both teams get a free game to end if off with us taking on Orlando and Miami stomping Philly.


----------



## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> After what could be a historic collapse in the playoffs, *do you guys think its time to try for a new point guard?* A pass first guard to set up our guys, since they've proven they can't create their own shots consistently?
> 
> I used to think the idea was ridiculous because of how we play, but I think its time to try to move for a guy like Rondo. I've been defending George Hill for a long time now, but I've lost patience with it. He does pretty much nothing for our team.
> 
> Maybe a sign and traded Lance and George Hill for Rondo? See if we can get Turner to resign for a decent price to replace Lance and we're good to go.


Yup. I think that is our biggest issue right now.


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> Yup. I think that is our biggest issue right now.


Just a bunch of idiots dribbling around the 3 point line with no clue of what they're doing right now. 

Doubt we could get Rondo. I wonder who the best replacement could be.


----------



## Pacers Fan

Knick Killer said:


> Yup. I think that is our biggest issue right now.


Roy's our biggest issue right now, although Hill does at least need to shoot the ball once in a while.

And I still don't want Rondo, at least not with this roster. Regarding R-Star's proposed Stephenson + Hill for Rondo deal, I doubt Boston wants to take on that kind of salary. But if they do, I don't like Rondo's fit on the Pacers. With a starting lineup of Rondo/Turner/George/West/Hibbert, we would have exactly one guy who can shoot the 3 consistently. David West might be our 2nd best 3-point shooter in the starting lineup.

I'm starting to wonder if we have too many guys who want the ball in their hands and not enough legitimate role players. It used to be the other way around. Now we have an entire starting 5 + Turner who only play well when they're allowed to be the creator on offense. We could use more guys like, I don't know, Danny Granger, to stand in the corner and not complain when they don't get the ball.


----------



## R-Star

Hibbert is really sulking out there today. If hes having an off game that's one thing. If hes having an off game and making faces and rolling his eyes and shit, then I'm done defending the guy. 

Suck it up you 7 foot pansy. ****. This guys head is just not right at this point.


----------



## Knick Killer

Lance Stephenson hits a huge 3 in Kevin Durants face with 34 seconds left to put us up 6!


----------



## R-Star

Even if we slugged this one out and got a close loss, I'd be happy with how we played as a whole. Roy can't hit jack shit on offense but looks good on D still (outside of not being able to rebound). George doesn't look like a superstar but he can still hit some big shots. 

We look like we're moving in the right direction. Here's hoping this isn't just a prelude to us somehow losing to Orlando.


----------



## Basel

Big win but Hibbert needs to get his shit together before the playoffs.


----------



## Knick Killer

Something that nobody has really talked about during our slump has been the absence of CJ Watson. What did he miss, 13 or so games? Huge game by him today. I think he's a lot more valuable to us than what most people think.


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> Something that nobody has really talked about during our slump has been the absence of CJ Watson. What did he miss, 13 or so games? Huge game by him today. I think he's a lot more valuable to us than what most people think.


Looking like it. I think it helps the team to get the ball out of Lances hands at times. With CJ out Lance was defacto point guard for the second unit. 

Nice all around game by Turner today too. I was wrong when I said he'd come in and chuck his way to a contract. He looked really nice tonight.


----------



## R-Star

Basel said:


> Big win but Hibbert needs to get his shit together before the playoffs.


Outside of that Miami series we've never relied on Roy for offense though. I think we need to quit trying to force him the ball and just wait for it to come on its own. 

It looks like the first half of last season where Roy looks like hes doing everything right and the ball just bounces around the rim and out. Got to be frustrating for him.


----------



## Knick Killer

I'm not worried about Roy. He was the shits last year in the regular season and come playoff time, he was the second best player in the Eastern conference.


----------



## Knick Killer

LeBron resting against the Wiz tonight so it looks like we got the first seed all wrapped up. Looks like we will play a snoozer of a series against Atlanta and then the winner of the Raptors/Nets series.


----------



## R-Star

I think a lot of people are going to be surprised by the Raps. They're getting disrespected league wide. They remind me of a 2012 version of us.


----------



## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


> I think a lot of people are going to be surprised by the Raps. They're getting disrespected league wide. They remind me of a 2012 version of us.



Kyle Lowry has finally put it all together and is now one of the best point guards in the game. Derozan is one of the best scorers in the league. Ross is crazy athletic, good shooter and a solid wing defender. Amir Johnson does all the little things. Jonas Valunciunas is the best young center in the game not named Anthony Davis. And finally, all the guys from the Rudy Gay trade have given them a solid bench.

Raptors are definitely underrated and won't be an easy series but I think their lack of experience could hurt them. As thrilled as I am to see them make the playoffs, it will be hard to enjoy it if they play against Indy.


----------



## Knick Killer

We can bitch and moan as much as we want about how we have been playing lately but at the end of the day, we accomplished our regular season goal of earning the #1 seed in the East. Although frustrated at the moment, I am still very proud.


----------



## R-Star

Looks like we're playing Hill and Hibbert, and resting the rest of the starters.

Could be a good way to jump start Roy for the playoffs. I'd love to see a huge game from him.


----------



## Porn Player

Incredible that you guys have taken the number 1 seed after the past few weeks. 

Congratulations, I hope you're mature enough to really kick back into gear come the playoffs, I do not want those ****ing Heat winning the East again. 

Thanks for the Raptor love as well, nice to see a little respect.


----------



## RollWithEm

R-Star said:


> Looks like we're playing Hill and Hibbert, and resting the rest of the starters.
> 
> Could be a good way to jump start Roy for the playoffs. I'd love to see a huge game from him.


That's what Vogel must be thinking. Roy needs to build a little momentum. He should use this Elton Brand/Pero Antic/Mike Muscala warm up to get a little rhythm going into what might be a tough second round match-up vs. either Garnett/Plumlee, Noah/Gibson, or Amir/JVal.


----------



## Pacers Fan

R-Star said:


> Looks like we're playing Hill and Hibbert, and resting the rest of the starters.
> 
> Could be a good way to jump start Roy for the playoffs. I'd love to see a huge game from him.


Outstanding coaching decision. Hibbert and Hill haven't been properly engaged for months and could go for a game where they're the 1st and 2nd options. Hopefully this helps Hill be more assertive and Hibbert get his touch back.



> That's what Vogel must be thinking. Roy needs to build a little momentum. He should use this Elton Brand/Pero Antic/Mike Muscala warm up to get a little rhythm going into what might be a tough second round match-up vs. either Garnett/Plumlee, Noah/Gibson, or Amir/JVal.


Roy's played 86 minutes against the Hawks this season. You'd think that going against the Hawks' bigs would give him a big advantage, but it doesn't. Hibbert doesn't do well against bigs with low centers of gravity (dates back to DeJuan Blair in college). He gets pushed off the block and has to take difficult shots. That said, he can still be effective because his hook has range.

The main problem is defense. For some reason, Hibbert can guard Andrea Bargnani and some other perimeter-oriented bigs effectively, but the Hawks abuse him. Antic, Brand, Millsap, and Muscala are all too quick and/or have too much range for Roy. Not only do they get the better of him one-on-one, but it causes the rest of the team to help on Roy's man, whereas our defense is supposed to be the other way around.

I have no doubt that Hibbert would really put together a few good games against the Nets or Bulls, but I'm concerned that he was completely owned by Valanciunas last game, and I'm afraid the Hawks give us a run in round one.


----------



## ATLien

I think the Hawks could take you to six or seven games if we had Al Horford, but this one will probably be over in 4-5 games. We play no defense, good offense. You play great defense. Good match up for Indiana. Roy Hibbert going up against 40 year old Elton Brand will get his confidence back up.


----------



## Pacers Fan

ATLien said:


> I think the Hawks could take you to six or seven games if we had Al Horford, but this one will probably be over in 4-5 games. We play no defense, good offense. You play great defense. Good match up for Indiana. Roy Hibbert going up against 40 year old Elton Brand will get his confidence back up.


I see Atlanta taking a game where Jeff Teague absolutely abuses George Hill, then maybe another if Lou Williams and Kyle Korver go off. I don't think we'll see any blow-outs, though.

The Pacers were great defensively until about January, then good at defense until right before the all-star break. Since then, we've become pretty mediocre. I'd like to think Evan Turner has completely ruined our defense with his missed rotations. He's bad on the ball, but atrocious off it. I hope we never even fathom putting him on Teague, Williams, or Korver.


----------



## ATLien

I could see Atlanta stealing a game like that. Jeff Teague was playing at a near all-star level, then Al Horford went down and it was looking like he had a huge regression, but he's been on fire lately. Just won player of the week for the first time.


----------



## Basel

Hibbert better get his act together in the final game against a tanking team in Orlando. If he can't, you guys have a problem. This isn't last year. I don't remember Hibbert playing this bad during any stretch last season.


----------



## R-Star

Basel said:


> Hibbert better get his act together in the final game against a tanking team in Orlando. If he can't, you guys have a problem. This isn't last year. I don't remember Hibbert playing this bad during any stretch last season.


He had some really terrible offense for the first half of the season. We blamed it on a wrist injury, but I'm starting to think he just goes through ridiculously long mental slumps.


----------



## R-Star

Courtside for game 7 going anywhere between $1450-$2300. 

Flights from here are ridiculous though. 2 layovers and a minimum of $700 one way. I don't think I'll be making my game 7 dream, but we'll see.


----------



## Marcus13

R-Star said:


> Courtside for game 7 going anywhere between $1450-$2300.
> 
> Flights from here are ridiculous though. 2 layovers and a minimum of $700 one way. I don't think I'll be making my game 7 dream, but we'll see.


I thought about ordering Game 7 tickets...but I settled for Game 2 tonight lol


----------



## R-Star

Marcus13 said:


> I thought about ordering Game 7 tickets...but I settled for Game 2 tonight lol


If it comes down to game 7 I may suck it up and actually pay the money and go. But the longer I wait the higher the prices will jump. 

I've got a kid coming at the end of June so I should probably be sticking close to home, but we'll see what happens.


----------



## RollWithEm

R-Star said:


> I don't think I'll be making my game 7 dream, but we'll see.


But what if the Pacers manage to get up 3-1? Would you fly out for closeout Game 5?


----------



## R-Star

RollWithEm said:


> But what if the Pacers manage to get up 3-1? Would you fly out for closeout Game 5?


I start days off at noon the day of game 5. Sadly there's no way I could feasibly get to game 5. I"m going to be rushing home as it is just to make tip off.


----------



## R-Star

Uh oh.


----------



## SaltyClipper

They gotta Eat Sleep Beat The Heat


----------



## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> Uh oh.


This is old and I think it was George Hill's 1 mil in cash sitting on a table.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> This is old and I think it was George Hill's 1 mil in cash sitting on a table.


Wasn't using it to prove Lance wants money or something. Just a picture to show Lance is going to get paid.


----------



## R-Star

Anyone else think we need to look into a a different option for our backup power forward this offseason?

Scola and West are too similar on offense, and neither is all the good of a defender. I'd like to see a more versatile defender coming off the bench. Would have really helped us out in this series I think.


----------



## R-Star

I hate every single game this team wins. We're just playing ourselves out of a top draft pick. 

Seeing where we'll probably sit on the draft board and knowing how much Bird loves white guys in the draft, I expect us to pick Porzingis.


----------



## R-Star

Fighting for what should end up being 9th or 10th place in the East. Good work Larry....


----------



## 29380

*Paul George completes first full Pacers practice*



> Paul George completed his first day of full practice with the Indiana Pacers on Thursday – three days ahead of the schedule he expected -- but he's not ready to resume playing games.
> 
> "I'm still hopeful (of playing mid-March)," he said. "That's the date I wish to return. Long ways away. Still got some steps and some hurdles to overcome. That's still a goal of mine."
> 
> And those steps?
> 
> "Just continuing to put some wear and tear on it," he said. "I've still got to go through some more pounding and get some more practices under my legs and getting up and down (the court), running and getting some conditioning again before I think the whole medical staff will be ready for me to be out there."
> 
> That's not just his words; it's those of coach Frank Vogel.
> 
> Vogel said George, who suffered a fractured leg Aug. 1 in a Team USA exhibition game, must be "in game shape, (have) rhythm and timing and all the movements that he's got to learn to trust again."
> 
> "Paul's not going to be out there unless he's close to being Paul George again," Vogel said.
> 
> George was an NBA All-Star the two previous seasons before being injured in Las Vegas. He said he's pain-free, although he feels the effect of practicing again.
> 
> "Some days it's sore; some days it's more sore than others," he said. "But that's part of it. It's nothing that's limiting me from being in practice."
> 
> Vogel said George still has "a long way to go" before being cleared to participate in games. He did not say how long that might be.
> 
> "There's no timetable for his return," Vogel said.


----------



## R-Star

I really don't see the point of trying to rush him back. Even if we make 8th I'm not confident in this team knocking off Atlanta or Cleveland, so what's the point?


----------



## R-Star




----------



## RollWithEm




----------



## R-Star

I see I'm basically the only Pacer fan who still posts in this thread, but regardless I'd like to take the opportunity to say I was right about Evan Turner. 

It would have cost nothing to keep him and he would have fit great with the current team. I remember Pacer fans calling me an idiot (maybe not the exact words) for wanting to keep him. 

Well guess what? Evan Turners a mother ****ing gangster and we should have kept him.


----------



## Gonzo

R-Star said:


> I see I'm basically the only Pacer fan who still posts in this thread,


I cancelled cable and decided it wasn't worth my time to try and stream the games. Considering the recent 10 game stretch we've had, I might start watching again in the near future.

I did get tickets to the Celtics game on March 14 so that should be exciting.


----------



## Knick Killer

R-Star said:


>


**** yeah. I won't lie, at the beginning of the year I wanted to see us go 0-82 and get a high draft pick. But now, I have been incredibly impressed with the effort of the team despite the lack of talent and I really hope we make the playoffs. If Paul George can return in time for the playoffs, we will not be an easy match-up for Atlanta or Toronto. It would be fun to watch this team in the role of the underdog.


----------



## R-Star

Gonzo said:


> I cancelled cable and decided it wasn't worth my time to try and stream the games. Considering the recent 10 game stretch we've had, I might start watching again in the near future.
> 
> I did get tickets to the Celtics game on March 14 so that should be exciting.


Still haven't made it to an NBA game. It's on my bucket list. 

With oil prices tanking I don't think my dream of flying to Indy and court siding it for a series is at all realistic this year.


----------



## R-Star

Knick Killer said:


> **** yeah. I won't lie, at the beginning of the year I wanted to see us go 0-82 and get a high draft pick. But now, I have been incredibly impressed with the effort of the team despite the lack of talent and I really hope we make the playoffs. If Paul George can return in time for the playoffs, we will not be an easy match-up for Atlanta or Toronto. It would be fun to watch this team in the role of the underdog.


Yea, reminds me of Vogels first year. Nice to finally feel excited for basketball again. Even if we pick 10th or so there's still some solid talent to be had.


----------



## RollWithEm

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/572831975838507011


----------



## ATLien

Knick Killer said:


> **** yeah. I won't lie, at the beginning of the year I wanted to see us go 0-82 and get a high draft pick. But now, I have been incredibly impressed with the effort of the team despite the lack of talent and I really hope we make the playoffs. If Paul George can return in time for the playoffs, we will not be an easy match-up for Atlanta or Toronto. It would be fun to watch this team in the role of the underdog.


Shoe is on the other foot now, mother****er.

Nah but the Pacers with George would be a tough series for Atlanta, but I kinda think a tough series would be good for us long term


----------



## Knick Killer

ATLien said:


> Shoe is on the other foot now, mother****er.
> 
> Nah but the Pacers with George would be a tough series for Atlanta, but I kinda think a tough series would be good for us long term


Indeed it is.

Would be fun to see the two teams play again but in different roles. Even if George is back, I couldn't see us pulling off the upset but it would be a tough series for Atlanta that is for sure.


----------



## Knick Killer

RollWithEm said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/572831975838507011


What the **** does this have to do with the Pacers?


----------



## RollWithEm

Knick Killer said:


> What the **** does this have to do with the Pacers?


My posts got mixed up somehow earlier today. I posted about the Pacers in a Thunder thread. Stupid.


----------



## Marcus13

Im going to the Pacers-Knicks game tonight. We'll see just how un-entertained I am. It's only my third live game of the season though, Ive been slackin!


----------



## 29380

R-Star said:


> I see I'm basically the only Pacer fan who still posts in this thread, but regardless I'd like to take the opportunity to say I was right about Evan Turner.
> 
> It would have cost nothing to keep him and he would have fit great with the current team. I remember Pacer fans calling me an idiot (maybe not the exact words) for wanting to keep him.
> 
> Well guess what? Evan Turners a mother ****ing gangster and we should have kept him.


Evan Turner is not a gangster he sucks.

But what about George Hill who I know most Pacers fans quit on because Stephenson and George were dominating the ball, he has been banged up but is average 20-5-6 on 45/37/76 per-36 21.2 PER .192 WS/48 and the team is 14-7 when he plays.

George Hill is a gangster


----------



## R-Star

Coach Fish said:


> Evan Turner is not a gangster he sucks.
> 
> But what about George Hill who I know most Pacers fans quit on because Stephenson and George were dominating the ball, he has been banged up but is average 20-5-6 on 45/37/76 per-36 21.2 PER .192 WS/48 and the team is 14-7 when he plays.
> 
> George Hill is a gangster


R-Star has always supported George Hill. If you knew anything about George Hill, you would know R-Star calls him Gangster Hill. Get off the bandwagon.

And Evan Turner is a gangster. The dude is a great role player. Just because he's not a star does not take away from the fact he's contracted a mild case of gangsteritis.


----------



## 29380




----------



## 29380

*Paul George to return Sunday
*


----------



## ATLien

About time. Now go knock the Nets out of the 8th seed.


----------



## R-Star

Too little too late I think. We're a game and a half back with only 6 to go. Even if we go on a hot streak, we'll have to luck out and have other teams lose. 

Glad to see him back though. The team played better than I thought in his absence.


----------



## Bogg

R-Star said:


> And Evan Turner is a gangster. The dude is a great role player. Just because he's not a star does not take away from the fact he's contracted a mild case of gangsteritis.


I like Evan Turner - guy's averaging nearly 11-7-6 since the all-star break as Boston's starting point forward. He's making the Avery Bradley-Marcus Smart frontcourt work.


----------



## Knick Killer

Thrilled to hear he's coming back to finish the season. Hopefully we can get hot and steal the 8th seed.


----------



## R-Star

Bogg said:


> I like Evan Turner - guy's averaging nearly 11-7-6 since the all-star break as Boston's starting point forward. He's making the Avery Bradley-Marcus Smart frontcourt work.


Guy was completely underutilized in Indy. They really could have used him this year too. Guy does a little bit of everything for you and seems to have really improved on his decision making, although I've only seen a few games of him this year so I could be wrong on that.


----------



## Bogg

R-Star said:


> Guy was completely underutilized in Indy. They really could have used him this year too. Guy does a little bit of everything for you and seems to have really improved on his decision making, although I've only seen a few games of him this year so I could be wrong on that.


What I will say is that Turner's gotten significantly better at the whole point guard thing from the start of this season to now, so I don't know that you really could have just plugged him in in the past and expected this. He's been a real solid pickup for Boston, though, I agree.


----------



## Knick Killer

Raptors haven't been doin a good job at helping our playoff chances.


----------



## RollWithEm

Bogg said:


> What I will say is that Turner's gotten significantly better at the whole point guard thing from the start of this season to now, so I don't know that you really could have just plugged him in in the past and expected this. He's been a real solid pickup for Boston, though, I agree.


Imagine what he could do if he was actually surrounded by shooters.


----------



## R-Star

So.... Cope and his wife got stabbed at a NY Club at 4am, and 2 Hawks players are being charged with obstruction of justice for refusing to let the police set up a crime scene?

Haven't heard stories like this since the old Jamal Tinsley, Stephen Jackson days. 

Hope Cope is alright.


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## Porn Player

It's an almost ridiculous story. 

I hope Cope and his wife are fine.


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## Marcus13

All comes down to tonight. Odds are against the Pacers after last night's Double OT. Not sure if Memphis has any seeding to play for or not?


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## R-Star

Pacers will win tonight. I feel confident of it.


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## ATLien

@R-Star avatar bet if you win


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## R-Star

ATLien said:


> @R-Star avatar bet if you win


R-Star accepts your proposal.

Bet will last the length of the playoffs?


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## ATLien

R-Star said:


> R-Star accepts your proposal.
> 
> Bet will last the length of the playoffs?


Don't fucking back out


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## R-Star

ATLien said:


> Don't ****ing back out


Are you forgetting whom you're talking to?


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## Pacers Fan

Well, who does everyone want in the late lottery? I thought Cauley-Stein or Hezonja would be great fits back when we had a higher projected pick. Where we now, I think Bobby Portis, Myles Turner, or maybe even Devin Booker would be good picks.


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## ATLien

Gonna be one of the Wisconsin forwards


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## R-Star

ATLien said:


> Gonna be one of the Wisconsin forwards


Sadly that's exactly what I expect. I can see us drafting Kaminsky which is an absolute joke with the 11th pick.


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## R-Star

Pacers Fan said:


> Well, who does everyone want in the late lottery? I thought Cauley-Stein or Hezonja would be great fits back when we had a higher projected pick. Where we now, I think Bobby Portis, Myles Turner, or maybe even Devin Booker would be good picks.


I am hoping one of Johnson, Cauley-Stein, Mudiay or Porzingis slips. I'm setting myself up for disappointment.


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## ATLien

R-Star said:


> Sadly that's exactly what I expect. I can see us drafting Kaminsky which is an absolute joke with the 11th pick.


Well I was joking, but I actually do like Kaminsky. 11 is too high for him, but if he goes late teens or early twenties then he could be a good role player for someone. Curious to see how athletic he is when they do the combine.


----------



## R-Star

ATLien said:


> Well I was joking, but I actually do like Kaminsky. 11 is too high for him, but if he goes late teens or early twenties then he could be a good role player for someone. Curious to see how athletic he is when they do the combine.


A 5 who can't defend anyone is a pretty worthless player in my eyes.


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## 29380

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/589086961756934144

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/589087024566505474


----------



## Basel

Coach Fish said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/589086961756934144
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/589087024566505474



I don't see why he would want to stay?


----------



## ATLien

R-Star said:


> A 5 who can't defend anyone is a pretty worthless player in my eyes.


I hope you sign Pero Antic now.


----------



## Knick Killer

I'm actually really disappointed we missed the playoffs. It would've been a fun series against Atlanta.


----------



## Knick Killer

Pacers Fan said:


> Well, who does everyone want in the late lottery? I thought Cauley-Stein or Hezonja would be great fits back when we had a higher projected pick. Where we now, I think Bobby Portis, Myles Turner, or maybe even Devin Booker would be good picks.


This year is probably the least amount of college basketball that I have watched in forever so I really have no clue as to who I'd want. I'll have to do some homework.


----------



## ATLien

Knick Killer said:


> I'm actually really disappointed we missed the playoffs.


Me too


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## Marcus13

Coach Fish said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/589086961756934144
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/589087024566505474


Damn. "Diminished" is a strong, ugly word


----------



## R-Star

Coach Fish said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/589086961756934144
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/589087024566505474


If Larry wants to run this team into the ground I'll just ****ing leave. 

If my team loses but actually tries to build a winner, I'll follow them to hell and back.

If I have to sit back and watch an out of touch has-been run what was a legit top 5 title contender into the ground first with terrible trades and signings, and then with trying to turn the team from a hard nosed defensive stalwart into some ridculous run and gun team that it isn't suited towards at all with either the players or coaching staff? I'll just go watch the Raps or Wizards. 


**** you Larry Bird.


----------



## R-Star

Marcus13 said:


> Damn. "Diminished" is a strong, ugly word


The guy plays 25 minutes a night. I don't even understand how the plan to diminish his role. It's not possible. 

And who are all these high scoring centers they plan on replacing him with?


**** do I ever hate Larry. He's planning on letting Hibbert walk for nothing and drafting Kaminsky. 

Next season is going to be a joke. We aren't a run and gun team, and scape goating Roy Hibbert for us not making the playoffs when George missed the whole year is pathetic. We should have tanked and picked up one of Russell or Mudiay, but Bird being the genius he is pushed for the playoffs. 

I'm livid right now if anyone can't tell.


----------



## Bogg

R-Star said:


> The guy plays 25 minutes a night. I don't even understand how the plan to diminish his role. It's not possible.
> 
> And who are all these high scoring centers they plan on replacing him with?
> 
> 
> **** do I ever hate Larry. He's planning on letting Hibbert walk for nothing and drafting Kaminsky.
> 
> Next season is going to be a joke. We aren't a run and gun team, and scape goating Roy Hibbert for us not making the playoffs when George missed the whole year is pathetic. We should have tanked and picked up one of Russell or Mudiay, but Bird being the genius he is pushed for the playoffs.
> 
> I'm livid right now if anyone can't tell.


On the other hand, maybe he'll opt in and Boston can get him for Jared Sullinger and the Clippers pick.


----------



## R-Star

Bogg said:


> On the other hand, maybe he'll opt in and Boston can get him for Jared Sullinger and the Clippers pick.


I think he'd make a nice addition to Boston. That would be one heck of a defense if everything came together.

Roy Hibbert puts up basically 0 stats which is why Bird hates him, but for my money he's one of the leagues top rim protectors, which is exactly what I want out of my center.


----------



## Bogg

R-Star said:


> I think he'd make a nice addition to Boston. That would be one heck of a defense if everything came together.
> 
> Roy Hibbert puts up basically 0 stats which is why Bird hates him, but for my money he's one of the leagues top rim protectors, which is exactly what I want out of my center.


Yea, if Indy's pushing him out the door I'd be interested in seeing whether he could stiffen up Boston's defense in the paint without killing them on offense. There are a lot of Celtics fans that don't want any part of him, but Smart/Bradley up top and even a mildly rejuvenated Hibbert in the middle has the makings of a top-10 defense.


----------



## R-Star

Bogg said:


> Yea, if Indy's pushing him out the door I'd be interested in seeing whether he could stiffen up Boston's defense in the paint without killing them on offense. There are a lot of Celtics fans that don't want any part of him, but Smart/Bradley up top and even a mildly rejuvenated Hibbert in the middle has the makings of a top-10 defense.


Hell, I'd say the could be top 3 if the team keeps developing. Indy was putting up historic defensive numbers last year before the trade deadline collapse, and Stephenson was being touted as the third best defensive player.

Smart or Bradley aren't on Georges level yet, but they're sure as hell better on D than Lance. 

When used right, Hibbert is the best defensive big in the game because of the verticality rule.


----------



## 29380

*Paul George ready to play power forward*



> Paul George is not only OK playing power forward for the Indiana Pacers -- he's been working at it.
> 
> "I'll be ready for it. I'm working on making that change and being prepared to play some forward this year," George said Thursday. "I understand what Larry (Bird) wants as far as playing the faster pace. I mean, I'm for it. That's the way the league is going nowadays."
> 
> George was hanging out at Victory Field, hosting the seventh annual Caroline Symmes Celebrity Softball Challenge, benefiting the Indiana Children's Wish Fund. Robert Mathis and Dwayne Allen of the Indianapolis Colts were his co-hosts.
> 
> George has been in Los Angeles for the summer but came to Indy for the event.
> 
> "I'm working out, training. I got a great start. I got a great start for the summer," he said.
> 
> George was out most of last season, recovering from a broken right leg. He returned for the final six games, but then suffered a strained left calf in the season finale.
> 
> "I'm getting better," he said. "I'm close to being 100 (percent)."
> 
> After last season, Bird had some ideas for George when he returns this season.
> 
> "David is our starter, but when we go smaller, we'd like to see Paul maybe play some (power forward) and you know everybody says, 'You'll have a problem on the defensive end.' Well, I don't think so," Bird said in April. "He can guard about anybody, and then on the other end, it's a major plus for us."


----------



## Bogg

I forget if I've asked this before, but if we just put aside the financials - for the sake of the argument, let's say Ainge agrees to give Chris Copeland a wildly above-market contract with only one year guaranteed to get a deal done, Keith Bogans-style - would you trade the 11th pick for Avery Bradley? I've been talking myself into the idea that Boston could potentially trade up to 4, if the Knicks aren't in love with any particular player there but do in fact like both Cam Payne and Trey Lyles (as rumored) by offering 11/16/28 while eating Jose Calderon's contract.


----------



## RollWithEm

Bogg said:


> I forget if I've asked this before, but if we just put aside the financials - for the sake of the argument, let's say Ainge agrees to give Chris Copeland a wildly above-market contract with only one year guaranteed to get a deal done, Keith Bogans-style - would you trade the 11th pick for Avery Bradley? I've been talking myself into the idea that Boston could potentially trade up to 4, if the Knicks aren't in love with any particular player there but do in fact like both Cam Payne and Trey Lyles (as rumored) by offering 11/16/28 while eating Jose Calderon's contract.


I would be impressed to watch you talk yourself into that. I'm sure it took quite a bit of convincing.


----------



## R-Star

Ender said:


> *Paul George ready to play power forward*


If it's for 5 or 10 minutes a game, fine. But I think Larry is starting to lose his mind.


----------



## R-Star

Bogg said:


> I forget if I've asked this before, but if we just put aside the financials - for the sake of the argument, let's say Ainge agrees to give Chris Copeland a wildly above-market contract with only one year guaranteed to get a deal done, Keith Bogans-style - would you trade the 11th pick for Avery Bradley? I've been talking myself into the idea that Boston could potentially trade up to 4, if the Knicks aren't in love with any particular player there but do in fact like both Cam Payne and Trey Lyles (as rumored) by offering 11/16/28 while eating Jose Calderon's contract.


It would depend on who's available at 11 in my eyes, which wouldn't work in your scenario since you'd flip it to the Knicks for the 4th.

I'm starting to like the idea of getting Booker to groom as our future shooting guard. Plus there's going to be one top 7 prospects who slips a few picks I think. 

If I knew right now Bird was dead set on Kaminsky or even Payne at the 11? I may go for a trade for Bradley, although he kind of epitomizes Indiana's current problems. Great on D, meh on O.


----------



## Bogg

RollWithEm said:


> I would be impressed to watch you talk yourself into that. I'm sure it took quite a bit of convincing.


Again, it hinges on Jackson _really_ liking Payne and Lyles for his system. If those rumors are all garbage being pushed by their agents to boost their draft stock then it makes no sense, and if Philly's really going to take Porzingis and let one of Russell/Okafor drop to NY then it's all moot anyway.


----------



## RollWithEm

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/613409780225441792


----------



## Pacers Fan

If Dennis Schroder comes our way as part of that deal, fine by me.


----------



## R-Star

RollWithEm said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/613409780225441792


Probably not much at all, because Larry is an idiot. 

Looks like a Kaminsky or Payne is a certainty at this point and we'll probably only get a 2nd rounder out of the deal.


----------



## RollWithEm

Pacers Fan said:


> If Dennis Schroder comes our way as part of that deal, fine by me.


That would be an excellent haul.

How about Sign-and-Trade Millsap plus #15 for David West plus #11 ?


----------



## Bogg

RollWithEm said:


> That would be an excellent haul.
> 
> How about Sign-and-Trade Millsap plus #15 for David West plus #11 ?


Pero Antic. Run-N-Fun Pacers!


----------



## R-Star

Bogg said:


> Pero Antic. Run-N-Fun Pacers!


You shut your mouth.


----------



## Pacers Fan

RollWithEm said:


> That would be an excellent haul.
> 
> How about Sign-and-Trade Millsap plus #15 for David West plus #11 ?


Wasn't it you a few years ago who told us Paul Millsap was going to flame out quickly due to his immobility? I believe that was when we were looking at him as a David West replacement before we re-signed West. He was arguably Atlanta's best player last season, and I can't think of any reason he'd have to force a trade to Indiana (besides money).


----------



## RollWithEm

Pacers Fan said:


> Wasn't it you a few years ago who told us Paul Millsap was going to flame out quickly due to his immobility? I believe that was when we were looking at him as a David West replacement before we re-signed West. He was arguably Atlanta's best player last season, and I can't think of any reason he'd have to force a trade to Indiana (besides money).


ME??? I seriously doubt that. I've always been a pretty big Millsap supporter for as long as I can remember.


----------



## Pacers Fan

RollWithEm said:


> ME??? I seriously doubt that. I've always been a pretty big Millsap supporter for as long as I can remember.


My mistake, wasn't you. Just thought it was interesting to see Millsap's name come up here again with David West looking like he can barely play basketball anymore.


----------



## RollWithEm

Pacers Fan said:


> Wasn't it you a few years ago who told us Paul Millsap was going to flame out quickly due to his immobility? I believe that was when we were looking at him as a David West replacement before we re-signed West. He was arguably Atlanta's best player last season, and I can't think of any reason he'd have to force a trade to Indiana (besides money).


http://www.basketballforum.com/indiana-pacers/470050-how-would-you-fix-pacers.html

Is this the thread you're talking about? If so, I was in favor of trading for Millsap and moving West.


----------



## Bogg

Pacers Fan said:


> Wasn't it you a few years ago who told us Paul Millsap was going to flame out quickly due to his immobility? I believe that was when we were looking at him as a David West replacement before we re-signed West. He was arguably Atlanta's best player last season, and I can't think of any reason he'd have to force a trade to Indiana (besides money).





RollWithEm said:


> ME??? I seriously doubt that. I've always been a pretty big Millsap supporter for as long as I can remember.





Pacers Fan said:


> My mistake, wasn't you. Just thought it was interesting to see Millsap's name come up here again with David West looking like he can barely play basketball anymore.


Without looking anything up, it might've been me. I know at one point I was skeptical about Millsap as he approached/passed the age of 30, but going East has actually done wonders for his career.


----------



## ATLien

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/613721444564996096


----------



## Marcus13

I dont think R-Star would love it, but Monta would be the perfect PG for this team


----------



## RollWithEm

ATLien said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/613721444564996096


Hmmm... interesting thought. If any team could cover up for Monta's defense, it's this one. I actually can't think of a much better fit for a guy like Monta than the Pacers.


----------



## kbdullah

David West just opted out 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/613795134359121921


----------



## Marcus13

That's kind of suprising


----------



## Bogg

Didn't expect West to opt out.


----------



## R-Star

Marcus13 said:


> I dont think R-Star would love it, but Monta would be the perfect PG for this team


As much as I hate volume scorers, I oddly like Monta.


----------



## R-Star

Bogg said:


> Didn't expect West to opt out.


I think he's seeing the writing on the wall and ran away.

I don't blame him. Go win a championship Dave. You deserve it.


----------



## Basel

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/614267778665684996


----------



## R-Star

Basel said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/614267778665684996


Good for him. I wouldn't let Bird bully me around either. 

I honestly hope Roy is a dick about it all season if they can't find a trade for him.


----------

