# Yao Ming or Dwight Howard right now when healthy?



## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Here are the many reasons of why Yao Ming is better than Dwight Howard.

For One, Yao Ming just destroys Dwight Howard when they go up head to head and play each other, here are the stats.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=mingya01&p2=howardw01
So as you see
Yao Ming's Averages against Dwight Howard in his Career are:
24.3 PPG, 9.3 RPG, 1.1 APG, 2.3 BPG, 55% FG,
Dwight Howard's Averages against Yao in his career are
12.0 PPG, 9.9 RPG, 0.9 APG, 1.4 BPG, 44% FG

So as you see, Dwight struggles very often against Yao Ming, and Yao doubles Dwight's averages in points and blocks and is a much better passer and a shooter/scorer.

I'd also like to mention the B.S of Yao not being out of the 1st round and how that does not affect the fact that he is no longer a better player against Dwight Howard.

Dwight Howard played against the Toronto Raptors a very soft interior defense who only has one true Center of Rasho, and that is very hard on him especially since he isn't a "great" defender himself and cannot take him on himself the entire game so they needed Bosh to play on him and Rasho didn't play on him that often anyways. So, as you see that Dwight had an easy matchup against the Raptors, he struggled a lot against the Detroit Pistons, simply because they are too good of a defensivey team so they really gave Dwight a hard time even though they played him 1 on 1 because Dwight is not that skilled of a player.

Now i'd like to mention that Yao is not a choker, because he has simply done pretty good in the playoffs his teammates just have not helped win the series, same with T-Mac,
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams...7&season=3&sort=pts&order=true&avg=pg&split=0
Here are the Stats Yao averaged against the Jazz last year:
25.1 PPG, 10.3 RPG, 44 FG%, although the FG% doesn't look good, he did help win Game 1 against the Jazz, because he was the only player scoring at all in that game, T-Mac didn't get it going then.
Many people said that yao was the reason why they lost to the Jazz because of his defensive problems which is not the case, because the Rockets failed to make it out of the 1st round this year with a better bench and Yao out, that obviously showed that Yao is very useful and a very very good interior scorer. Boozer actually had his worst playoffs series stats against the Rockets then he did against any other team that year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams...&season=3&sort=pts&order=true&avg=pg&split=10
Boozer's Stats against the Rockets:
24.6 PPG, 11 RPG, 50 FG%
Boozer's stats against the Warriors:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams...7&season=3&sort=pts&order=true&avg=pg&split=9
24.2 PPG, 14 RPG, 60 FG%
Boozer's Stats against the Spurs
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams...&season=3&sort=pts&order=true&avg=pg&split=24
21.4 PPG, 12 RPG, 52.9 FG%

So as you say that Boozer shot the worse against the rockets and Yao and that Yao is not a bad defender he just didn't defend him as good as other possibly players possibly could but he really did dominate against other teams like the Spurs and the Warriors

Now, I'd like to show you the stats that Yao has had against the Mavericks and the Lakers which were his other 2 playoff teams he has played against
Yao's stats vs the Mavericks
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams...5&season=3&sort=pts&order=true&avg=pg&split=0
21.4 PPG, 7.7 RPG, 65 FG%
Yao's Stats vs Lakers ( With Steve Francis)
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams...4&season=3&sort=pts&order=true&avg=pg&split=0
15 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 45.6 FG%
You must remember that Yao played against the prime shaq that year and that Yao also dominated Shaq in the regular season before that as well.

I'd now also like to mention that Yao has much much much more skill than Dwight will probably ever have in his entire career, Yao can be relyed on in the high post or low post, Dwight? Not so much, I def would not trust his passing ability or his shooting ability to play in the high post... Yao you can def trust him on there because he can do either one and he is very good and underrated at passing.

Now for Defense, all of you do realize that Dwight is a better OVERALL defender, which i agree with however, I do not believe that Dwight is a better Man-to-man defender which is different because as a big man you would rather have an interior shot blocker all over the place, but if you are a wing player you would rather have a man-to-man perimeter guy.
The Rockets are 2nd Place in FG% allowed, behind the Boston Celtics, and that is def not a conscience that Yao is also the center and that he sucks on defense, because that is completely wrong, Yao is an above average defender and possibly elite if he weren't hurt all the time. There have been many quotes saying that Yao is a very good defender by Hakeem Olajuwon, Dikembe Mutombo and Phil Jackson here they are.

http://www.yaomingmania.com/blog/20...erviews-of-yao-and-hakeem-from-todays-workout
"Yao Ming is very, very intelligent and also very diligent. He is not only good in offense, he is also outstanding in defense. There had not been in the whole NBA history to have such a big guy like him that is so balanced in both offense and defense."
http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?rls=Houston Rockets&tid=2210260&lid=10
"If I was Curry, I would not challenge Yao," Rockets center Dikembe Mutombo said. "I would not challenge Yao and get that ball blocked. That was just embarrassing. He was trying to get himself on Sportscenter." ?Deke

Tenacious defense

Yao Ming switched to defend New Orleans forward David West late in the game and forced West to shoot over him.

West missed all eight of his shots when defended by Yao.
"I tried to keep him from scoring," Yao said. "You cannot allow him to keep making shots and shots and shots. When I started guarding him he wasn't able to get the pick-and-roll in the post. He had to shoot from further (out).

http://www.82games.com/nichols2.htm
Here are stats that also prove that Yao is a very good defender himself as well.

Now i'd like to mention the +/- of the defense of Yao and Dwight
http://www.82games.com/0708/07HOU21D.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0708/07ORL16D.HTM
When Yao is off the court they are -0.8 Net which means they are worse with him off the court
and for Dwight when he is off the court they are +3.4 net which means they are better w/o him on the court.

Those stats also counted when Yao was injuried and not playing at all with Deke starting. http://www.82games.com/0708/07HOU21A.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0708/07ORL16A.HTM

Now i'd also like to mention more of the offense, as you see
Yao attempts 48% Jumpers and makes it 38% of the time, shoots 39% close shots and makes it 55% of the time
For Dwight, he attempts 16% jumpers and makes it 24% of the time which is very low and when he shoots 52% close shots and makes it only 52% of the time, close shots are usually like 5 ft and within or maybe 6 ft, but as you see Yao is a better finisher when it comes to layups and creating his own shots which shows that Yao is a better scorer by alot

Now here are the clutch stats
http://www.82games.com/0708/07HOU21E.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0708/07ORL16E.HTM
Yao scores 36.8 PPG per48 minute in clutch time which are usually 4th quarter or OT which is very good, he also has a better rebounding rate then dwight in the clutch
Dwight scores, 13.8 PPG per48 minute in the clutch so his stats are clearly non-existant, so as you see Yao is also a much more clutch player than Dwight Howard is.

So as you see Yao > Dwight


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## LameR (Jan 4, 2004)

When he's healthy, he's better offensively, but he's worse defensively and worse when it comes to rebounding. Howard may only have one or two moves (most of which involve dunking in some manner), but he's become pretty good at them.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

LameR said:


> When he's healthy, he's better offensively, but he's worse defensively and worse when it comes to rebounding. Howard may only have one or two moves (most of which involve dunking in some manner), but he's become pretty good at them.


uh No as i said Yao is an above average defender, read my post again.


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

How is right now when healthy even possible? Especially because right now one of these guys is not healthy.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Yao is clearly a better big man defender, but Howard has proved that he can pass the first round.


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## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

i would take Yao only by a hair


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

I never understood how Dwight's defense became so overrated and Yao's became so underrated (even in threads where the two arent being directly compared).


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

Oh no, not this thread again...

This is like comparing Hakeem Vs Shaq. One is pure finesse, and ones pure power. Two players in the same position but with totally different games. 

That and Yao's defense is severly underrated and Dwights is severly overrated.


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## LameR (Jan 4, 2004)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


> uh No as i said Yao is an above average defender, read my post again.


I read your post, and disagree. Is that too hard to understand?


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

OneBadLT123 said:


> Oh no, not this thread again...
> 
> This is like comparing Hakeem Vs Shaq. One is pure finesse, and ones pure power. Two players in the same position but with totally different games.
> 
> That and Yao's defense is severly underrated and Dwights is severly overrated.


You forgot the huge difference where both Shaq and Hakeem have skill on offense, while only Yao has skill. dwight is by far the most raw offensive player and the most skill-less player to probably walk basketball world.


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## Smez86 (Jun 29, 2006)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


> You forgot the huge difference where both Shaq and Hakeem have skill on offense, while only Yao has skill. dwight is by far the most raw offensive player and the most skill-less player to probably walk basketball world.


Dwight is 22 and Yao is 27. Howard has time to develop an offensive game.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

Yao is more skilled and Howard is more athletic. Yao already has a complete skillset of post moves while Howard has one or two moves. Howard is a better rebounder because he can go after balls that are out of reach, Yao naturally would grab a rebound over Howard if they're both in the same spot. Howard has better shot blocking numbers but Yao can intimidate as much if not more than Howard by just merely standing there. 

Yao is the more disciplined defender. He now realizes he doesn't need to leave his feet and just put his hands up. At 7'6" he should get 2 blocks a game doing that. In his first few years he would get called for frequent fouls trying to block shots. Howard is better at coming from the weakside.

Howard dunks more. I wish Yao would dunk more also instead of going for cute layups and soft finishes.

Of course, Yao shoots 85% from the line and shoots our techs. Now if only the stupid refs would give him some calls...

And Yao has completely owned Howard head to head. In fact, Howard has no answer for Yao on either end of the court.


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## dwade3 (Sep 12, 2005)

Smez86 said:


> Dwight is 22 and Yao is 27. *Howard has time to develop an offensive game*.


he wont go much further then a 10 foot hook shot.......with shooters/slashers around him, he doesnt need to score more than 22ppg......he will definetly polish his post moves, and will need to learn how not to fade in playoff games.....i admit this time last year i was skeptical of Howards ceiling, he developed moves this season other than alleys and putbacks while Yao got injured AGAIN, gimme Dwight any day....i dont like my big men stepping out of the key for a shot more than 10 times a game.....except for Garnett


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## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

Can't see any bias in this thread... 

Yao is soft. Dwight is still very young so he's pretty inconsistent, but I think I'd still take Dwight for a full 82 games and for a playoff run. If Yao and Dwight played every single game against one another, I might think your "stats vs one another" are actually useful.


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

*Of course Yao is going to have the better head to head stats, seeing as when Dwight came in the league in 2005 Yao was already a bonafied All-Star.*


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Prolific Scorer said:


> *Of course Yao is going to have the better head to head stats, seeing as when Dwight came in the league in 2005 Yao was already a bonafied All-Star.*


your point is??
Yao has defeated Shaq head-to-head in his rookie season and Shaq was in his PRIME then.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

unluckyseventeen said:


> Yao is soft.


nope.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

dwight howard is a better rebounder than yao, but he is not a better defender.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

rocketeer said:


> dwight howard is a better rebounder than yao, but he is not a better defender.


Shot blocker: Yes
Man-to-man defender: No. 

for a big guy you would rather have a shot blocker than a man to man defender, that's one reason why Marcus Camby always gets 1st team because he is not that good of a man to man defender but an excellent shot blocker.


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


> your point is??
> Yao has defeated Shaq head-to-head in his rookie season and Shaq was in his PRIME then.


*Meaning Dwight didn't really come into his own until 2007.

Defeated? This isn't 300 pal. *


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## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

rocketeer said:


> nope.


When a team of spectacular post defenders like Mehmet Okur and Carlos Boozer can force him into fadeaway 15-footers in the playoffs, he's soft.

How many rebounds per game does Howard get? Compared to Howard, just about every dude in the league is soft.


I can already see this thread turning into Rockets homers complaining and using absolutely meaningless arguments to try proving their point. Like winning 1 game against Shaq and posting head-to-head numbers when Dwight is still, what, 22? Weak.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

unluckyseventeen said:


> When a team of spectacular post defenders like Mehmet Okur and Carlos Boozer can force him into fadeaway 15-footers in the playoffs, he's soft.
> 
> How many rebounds per game does Howard get? Compared to Howard, just about every dude in the league is soft.
> 
> ...


Yao is not soft, so what if Okur and Boozer force him into fadeaways, Hakeem probably took more jumpers and fadeaways than Yao ever did and same with Ewing.
so are they soft?


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## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


> Yao is not soft, so what if Okur and Boozer force him into fadeaways, Hakeem probably took more jumpers and fadeaways than Yao ever did and same with Ewing?
> so are they soft?


When you've got 7-9 inches on your defender, and outweigh them by 50 pounds and you settle for fadeaway jumpers every time while in the post, then you're ****ing soft.

Everyone criticizes Howard for not having such a refined game, but I guess you're also expecting Howard to have a huge advantage on his defender and then settle for a fadeaway jumper, right? I mean, Howard having a more broad offensive game to compensate for when he can't afford to power over everyone would be nice, and I'm sure he will develop it in time. But give me a break.. at least Howard takes it strong to the bucket when he knows he's stronger and bigger than the guy guarding him. Yao doesn't even need to jump to dunk and has a huge height and weight advantage on every single person he matches up with except maybe Shaq. Him posting up and the result being a fallaway jumper 75% of the time is ridiculous. I commend Yao for having a complete offensive game, but he's still soft, dude.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

unluckyseventeen said:


> When you've got 7-9 inches on your defender, and outweigh them by 50 pounds and you settle for fadeaway jumpers every time while in the post, then you're ****ing soft.
> 
> Everyone criticizes Howard for not having such a refined game, but I guess you're also expecting Howard to have a huge advantage on his defender and then settle for a fadeaway jumper, right? I mean, Howard having a more broad offensive game to compensate for when he can't afford to power over everyone would be nice, and I'm sure he will develop it in time. But give me a break.. at least Howard takes it strong to the bucket when he knows he's stronger and bigger than the guy guarding him. Yao doesn't even need to jump to dunk and has a huge height and weight advantage on every single person he matches up with except maybe Shaq. Him posting up and the result being a fallaway jumper 75% of the time is ridiculous. I commend Yao for having a complete offensive game, but he's still soft, dude.


How is Yao soft but dwight isn't? See the difference is that Yao actually takes shots while Dwight is too big of a wimp so he just passes it up instead even when playing 1 on 1, that actually makes him more soft than Yao on offense.
so answer this, why did Ewing and Hakeem shoot more jumpers than Yao did but they are not considered soft to you? OR do you consider them soft?

http://www.82games.com/0708/07HOU21A.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0708/07ORL16A.HTM

Now i'd also like to mention more of the offense, as you see
Yao attempts 48% Jumpers and makes it 38% of the time, shoots 39% close shots and makes it 55% of the time
For Dwight, he attempts 16% jumpers and makes it 24% of the time which is very low and when he shoots 52% close shots and makes it only 52% of the time, close shots are usually like 5 ft and within or maybe 6 ft, but as you see Yao is a better finisher when it comes to layups and creating his own shots which shows that Yao is a better scorer by alot


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

unluckyseventeen said:


> When a team of spectacular post defenders like Mehmet Okur and Carlos Boozer can force him into fadeaway 15-footers in the playoffs, he's soft.


you think any of that might have had a little something to do with him just returning from a broken leg? but you're right playing through a big toe infection that is so bad it requires surgery, returning after only missing 34 games for a broken leg, and playing for weeks even though he had a stress fracture in his foot definitely makes the guy soft.



> How many rebounds per game does Howard get? Compared to Howard, just about every dude in the league is soft.


so rebounds equate not being soft?

and you never said in comparison to howard, yao is soft.

howard is better than yao at two things. rebounding and dunking. yao is better offensively. i would give the edge to yao defensively but they are comparable.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

unluckyseventeen said:


> Him posting up and the result being a fallaway jumper 75% of the time is ridiculous.


except that in reality, that doesn't happen. you were talking about people making meaningless arguments earlier, but nothing is more meaningless than made up numbers.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

In terms of flash and stats Dwight is better, in terms of overall and all-around Yao is better. 

This is like LeBron vs Kobe.


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## Fray (Dec 19, 2005)

Dwight Howard will end up being the better player but for now I'd take Yao. He's so much better on offense it makes up for the rebound differential. And it's not like Yao is a bad rebounder either.


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## HispanicCausinPanic (Jul 2, 2005)

The fact that you have to preface this by saying, "when healthy". Gotta' take Dwight!


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

HispanicCausinPanic said:


> The fact that you have to preface this by saying, "when healthy". Gotta' take Dwight!


*We have a winner!

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that Dwight will improve in some area of his game this offseason.

*


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

Ballscientist said:


> Yao is clearly a better big man defender, but Howard has proved that he can pass the first round.


Well Orlando only advanced past the 1st round in the Eastern Conference. I think the Rockets minus Yao could have beaten the Raptors in a best of 7 series.


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## sasaint (Jun 28, 2005)

HispanicCausinPanic said:


> The fact that you have to preface this by saying, "when healthy". Gotta' take Dwight!


EXACTLY! This is a no-brainer!


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

so what if he is never healthy at this point he has played 50+ games, that is healthy, take a look at guys like Grant Hill in his piston years and magic years where he would only play 10 year that is true injury prone.


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

unluckyseventeen said:


> If Yao and Dwight played every single game against one another, I might think your "stats vs one another" are actually useful.


Have you seen the two go head-to-head? Yao outplays him nearly every time, last season included. Guys like Amare and Howard always have trouble with Yao because of his size. And it's never more clear than in his matchups with Dwight just how valuable a rebounder Yao is. Along with Duncan, he is the best in the league at boxing out opponents to help his team get rebounds. This is why Howard never has big rebounding games against him.



> When a team of spectacular post defenders like Mehmet Okur and Carlos Boozer can force him into fadeaway 15-footers in the playoffs, he's soft.


The Jazz doubled aggressively, often with Kirilenko. So it was unspectacular post defense and agrressive help defense with the best non-big team defender in the game. Ewing shot a ton of fadeaway 15-footers. A greater percentage of Duncan's shots are jumpers than Yao's. Olajuwon's Dream Shake was a turnaround jumper. It's a terrible argument. Give it up.



> When you've got 7-9 inches on your defender, and outweigh them by 50 pounds and you settle for fadeaway jumpers every time while in the post, then you're ****ing soft.


Why is shooting jumpers over your defender when you've got 7-9 inches on him anything but a great idea? The guy can't block your shot! It's a lot safer than a 7'6" guy putting the ball on the floor amid swarming help defense. This is what separates the Karl Malones from the Shawn Kemps.

He played several games with a stress fracture. He continued to run the floor against the Jazz in the regular season after breaking his foot. He played over a year with a toe injury that doctors could hardly believe he hadn't complained about earlier. His trainers have said that he has an abnormally high tolerance for pain. Jeff Van Gundy has called him one of the toughest and most determined players he has ever seen. He plays in the paint more than Duncan. He is an excellent post defender. He keeps opponents off the boards better than just about anyone. The guy is not soft. Go watch some more Rockets games then come and talk.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Howard has NEVER outplayed Yao Ming in his career, Duncan is now already having trouble playing Yao head-to-head himself so this is showing that Yao is probably going to be on pace to be the most dominant big man in the game next year, i think he is if not then it is Duncan who is.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

Problem is Yao has to play a whole season again to reclaim his throne. It's unfortunate, but injuries are a part of the game. 

Strangely, all of Yao's injuries have been freak accidents. It's not like he misses games with some other random issue like T-Mac. First it was a toe infection, came back late and had his foot broken when kirilenko landed on his foot just as Yao was leaving the ground, then the following season Tim Thomas falls on his knee, then this year the stress fracture. Before that, he was the league's ironman. Hopefully nothing stupid happens this year and he could go back to playing 80 games.


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

Howard of course.

Also head to head matchups mean little to nothing. You are judged on how you do against the entire league, not just one player. Howard = 1st team all NBA and 2nd team all defense. Yao has never done either of these things and probably never will.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

Idunkonyou said:


> Howard of course.
> 
> Also head to head matchups mean little to nothing. You are judged on how you do against the entire league, not just one player. Howard = 1st team all NBA and 2nd team all defense. Yao has never done either of these things and probably never will.


all defensive teams really are meaningless. they are all about reputation and not at all about actual play.

and yao would have been first team and likely will be in the future as long as he stays healthy(which is obviously important).

it's not like howard isn't a very good player though. i feel like his rebounding puts him almost equal to yao even though yao has the edge on offense and a slight edge on defense. and of course currently i think you'd have to take howard over yao until yao proves that the stress fracture in his foot won't be a reoccurring problem. but as far as "when healthy" yao still has that until howard either improves some more offensively or actually becomes a dominant defensive player.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

Hakeem said:


> Have you seen the two go head-to-head? Yao outplays him nearly every time, last season included. Guys like Amare and Howard always have trouble with Yao because of his size. And it's never more clear than in his matchups with Dwight just how valuable a rebounder Yao is. Along with Duncan, he is the best in the league at boxing out opponents to help his team get rebounds. This is why Howard never has big rebounding games against him.
> 
> 
> The Jazz doubled aggressively, often with Kirilenko. So it was unspectacular post defense and agrressive help defense with the best non-big team defender in the game. Ewing shot a ton of fadeaway 15-footers. A greater percentage of Duncan's shots are jumpers than Yao's. Olajuwon's Dream Shake was a turnaround jumper. It's a terrible argument. Give it up.
> ...


No, no no no, Unluckyseventeen had it all wrong. Yao is soft because he does not average 40 points, 20 rebounds, 10 blocks, on 100% shooting. Because OMG hes 7'5 and weighs more!! He should be getting monster stats and dunking all over!

I just gave up on defending Yao to people who don't watch him on a yearly basis. Its simply pointless. 

Oh well, they will never get it through their thick-headed skull.


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## mynetsforlife (Dec 27, 2006)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


> Shot blocker: Yes
> Man-to-man defender: No.
> 
> for a big guy you would rather have a shot blocker than a man to man defender, that's one reason why Marcus Camby always gets 1st team because he is not that good of a man to man defender but an excellent shot blocker.


No, Marcus Camby always gets 1st team because awards don't mean ****.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Idunkonyou said:


> Howard of course.
> 
> Also head to head matchups mean little to nothing. You are judged on how you do against the entire league, not just one player. Howard = 1st team all NBA and 2nd team all defense. Yao has never done either of these things and probably never will.


Magic Fans are sensitive and bitter, they are jealous that Yao owns him head to head and that Dwight can never beat him then, All-NBA first team? What a joke of being a better player, Dwight just had a better season

LeBron was on all-NBA 2nd team last year, I guess he wasn't a top 2 forward last year. 
When he was clearly a top 5 player then.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

First and foremost, Yao is considered soft becuz......<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/kt5pOPn_0Ik&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kt5pOPn_0Ik&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>.

As for Dwight vs. Yao tho, Howard's combination of size & strength with agility makes him almost impossible for anyone in the league to guard, much less keep off the glass. Yao's sheer height gives him a distinct advantage over everyone, but he is not feared like most other dominant centers which is why people look at him as soft. When ur 7'6 all u gotta do is put your hands out and you'll grab a good # of boards with a good amount of blocks. Not saying that his production isn't good, but sometimes he just plays weak and methodical(ala the Nate block). He doesn't get after it like 'Keem the Dream, or Shaq, or even Dwight. I love how Rocket fans are trying to pass Yao off as more intimidating than those guys tho :no: :lol:.....Yao has a nice little game but lets not get carried away he here. He IS soft and fragile, unlike the other beast, Dwight Howard.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

Blue Magic said:


> First and foremost, Yao is considered soft


because somehow if yao was tougher that wouldn't have happened?


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

How Exactly is Yao Soft? Because of one play?
I hope you realize Pat Ewing was blocked by Muggsy Bogues at one point of his career and that every time Yao and Dwight play each other, Dwight can't even overpower Yao like shaq can so no, Dwight is not a beast he is actually somewhat of a pu.ssy


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

blaspheme!


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

So i win.
Good


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2005)

Some people consider Duncan soft. Just because Yao isn't dunking in people's safe does not mean he is soft. Considering Yao's FT% I like to see him be more aggressive though and get to the line more.

That Nate block was indeed hilarious but it is only one play. Yao does get posterized though but hey do did Ewing and even KJ dunked it in Hakeem's face.

The problem with having a vs. argument involving Dwight and Yao is that the "when Healthy". Yao is too injury prone. I hope he can put together an 82 game season one day but right now it looks like it will probably never happen.

Offensively Yao is very gifted. Over the last years he is finally learning to use his tangibles to his advantage. Compared to Dwight, Yao's offensive skillset is light years ahead but that does not mean there is much difference on the scoreboard. It was the same with a young Shaq. The guy had basically one move: Power Dunk. Compared to the offensive skillset of Hakeem, David Robinson, or Ewing it was pathetic. Yet when the scoreboard came around Shaq would be in the 30s. Dwight and Yao's PPG production is not as far apart as their difference in skillset last I checked.

The same goes for D. Yao's D is definitely underrated and as much as I love Dwight his D is becoming overrated. I used to hate on Yao's rebound and block production but that is the past. The posters who routinely watch Yao are right in this thread. The guy boxes out as good as anyone and even though most of us would like to see his block production match his height Yao alters his share of shots just by his presence. 

Also the stats don't lie. Yao does get the best of Dwight when they match up and as great of a rebounder Howard is Yao outrebounded him during their two 07/08 games: 27 to 19.

The thing though is Howard is 22 years old and has shown himself to be durable. The guy is going to be dead scary at 27. Yao is in his prime and injury prone. The only way Yao can win a vs. argument with Dwight now is if we attach "when healthy". That is unfair because the guy simply is never healthy.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

Gilgamesh said:


> The problem with having a vs. argument involving Dwight and Yao is that the "when Healthy". Yao is too injury prone. I hope he can put together an 82 game season one day but right now it looks like it will probably never happen.


you must have missed his first 3 years in the league when he missed a total of two games. yao putting together an 82 game season is something that definitely has happened.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

HOWARD! He's younger and Yao is always injured.


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## 23isback (Mar 15, 2006)

unluckyseventeen said:


> Yao is soft. .


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fZwe5MS2vdA&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fZwe5MS2vdA&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


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## K-Dub (Jun 26, 2005)

23isback said:


> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fZwe5MS2vdA&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fZwe5MS2vdA&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


That means about as much as this next video.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VhqMuo12ex4&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VhqMuo12ex4&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Nothing at all. Getting your shot blocked doesn't mean you're soft. Try again.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

yao > dwight


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## JT3000 (Nov 3, 2004)

It doesn't matter how many times you try to convince yourself that you're right, Yao is still losing this poll. :yay:


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

It's funny because Everybody is taking Flash over Fire


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## JT3000 (Nov 3, 2004)

Fire? Yao's "fire" reminds me of winter. He's about as soft as a snowman.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

JT3000 said:


> Fire? Yao's "fire" reminds me of winter. He's about as soft as a snowman.


Another sensitive magic fan that is mad that Yao owns Dwight Howard every single minute they play each other
It's alright


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## JT3000 (Nov 3, 2004)

Dwight is First Team All-NBA. The best Center in the league. Last season, his team went farther than Yao's ever has. What am I supposed to be sensitive about? A couple Houston homers?


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## Adol (Nov 25, 2004)

I'd take Dwight. Yao is amazingly skilled for his size, and he's easily a top center in the league, but Dwight is Shaq lite.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

JT3000 said:


> Dwight is First Team All-NBA. The best Center in the league. Last season, his team went farther than Yao's ever has. What am I supposed to be sensitive about? A couple Houston homers?


hmm all-Nba you sure that's very credible

You do realize LeBron was on the 2nd team last year and he led his team to the Finals right?
He wasn't a top 2 forward last year? 
He was a top 5 player last year. 
Dwight had a better season Yao is the better player get over it.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Adol said:


> I'd take Dwight. Yao is amazingly skilled for his size, and he's easily a top center in the league, but Dwight is Shaq lite.


Dwight is nothing like Shaq, see Shaq has post moves.. Dwight? Not at all.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Shaq had about as many post moves as Dwight at 22........Dwight aint even in his prime yet...


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

23isback said:


> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fZwe5MS2vdA&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fZwe5MS2vdA&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Lol @ Yao. Dwight had about 267 of those except his just look oh soo much better.....oh and of course he *still* has never been blocked by anyone under 5-9. Try again.


Lets get some excitement back in this thread. Idk if i can watch another dull Yao Ming clip.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/kmlDqPtHV-E&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kmlDqPtHV-E&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


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## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

Here's a REAL VIDEO for all you Dwight Howard fanboys!

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs2BlRGSQb4&feature=related


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Blue Magic said:


> Shaq had about as many post moves as Dwight at 22........Dwight aint even in his prime yet...


You are a moron if you think that, Shaq had post moves he was not as raw as Dwight in his first year as a Magic either. 

Shaq had post moves, not as much as he did when he was younger but he had post moves.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

And Dwight has, what? zero post moves??? **** outta here man

Shaq came into the league at 22, Dwight is 22 now.....His game will continue to grow with time.... He has a nice little shot, he just needs to learn a lil patience. You can tell he has a little 8ft bank shot in the works(he takes it on occasion and makes it a decentt amount of the time). His form is actually pretty good. He also needs to polish up that hook shot(both hands), and maybe within the next 3-5 yrs, pick up that turn-a-round baseline J that Ewing(his mentor) had. I can see him working that into his game by at least the time he turns 25-26. It's not like he's inept on offense, he's just not consistent with his touch or his moves....... Some games he pulls off moves that just surprise you and shows great touch around the rim, and others he looks like a Ben Wallace clone throwin up clanks and off balanced shots. He just needs to polish up his moves a little bit, but he does in fact have moves.....wacth him in the Olympics, he will definitely show a lil somthin there if you think he has zero moves.....:krazy:


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Blue Magic said:


> And Dwight has, what? zero post moves??? **** outta here man
> 
> Shaq came into the league at 22, Dwight is 22 now.....His game will continue to grow with time.... He has a nice little shot, he just needs to learn a lil patience. You can tell he has a little 8ft bank shot in the works(he takes it on occasion and makes it a decentt amount of the time). His form is actually pretty good. He also needs to polish up that hook shot(both hands), and maybe within the next 3-5 yrs, pick up that turn-a-round baseline J that Ewing(his mentor) had. I can see him working that into his game by at least the time he turns 25-26. It's not like he's inept on offense, he's just not consistent with his touch or his moves....... Some games he pulls off moves that just surprise you and shows great touch around the rim, and others he looks like a Ben Wallace clone throwin up clanks and off balanced shots. He just needs to polish up his moves a little bit, but he does in fact have moves.....wacth him in the Olympics, he will definitely show a lil somthin there if you think he has zero moves.....:krazy:


what moves? If he has so many moves why is it that the Pistons only needed an 1 above average defender to guard him instead of a double team like they do to Yao? Are you saying Dwight is too afraid to use moves to own them or something? LMAO, Dwight has no moves, Yeh, he has a bankshot AN INCONSISTENT one, The only move he really has is a hook shot that doesn't go in often and a spin move that doesn't work too often either. Shaq had TONS Of post moves. 

Pat ewing will help dwight? Yeah whatever makes you sleep at night, Mutombo has probably helped more than Ewing has ever done when he was assistant for the Rockets. The only thing Ewing does is pick his nose in the sidelines.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Im not saying he's Hakeem, but he does have moves bro. You taking the Detroit series and saying he has no moves is absolutly rediculous. He always plays his worst agaisnt them since the day he came in the league. They have the bodies to throw at him to wear him down just like they did with your boy shaq in the '04 finals. They had Sheed, McDeyess, & Maxiell all swithin up on him using all their fouls frustrate him and keep him out of rythm..... If he even touched the ball in the paint he got mugged before he could do anything with it. If you watched the toronto series you would've seen a little more of his repitior becuz they had to play him straight up, but just basing your entire argument of his skillset on a stretch two or three games against some the best interior defense in the league is absurd. he is still developing, no doubt, but yeah he has that baby hook in the works and more.....ur just mad because your stuck watching Yao Ming's boring *** either gettin hurt or gettin bounced in 1st round year after year. I understand, i would be pretty upset too, but just face it.......The future is now. Dwight is better then Yao's bum ***.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Blue Magic said:


> Im not saying he's Hakeem, but he does have moves bro. You taking the Detroit series and saying he has no moves is absolutly rediculous. He always plays his worst agaisnt them since the day he came in the league. They have the bodies to throw at him to wear him down just like they did with your boy shaq in the '04 finals. They had Sheed, McDeyess, & Maxiell all swithin up on him using all their fouls frustrate him and keep him out of rythm..... If he even touched the ball in the paint he got mugged before he could do anything. If you watched the toronto series you would've seen a little more of his repitior, but just basing your entire argument of his skillset on a stretch two or three games is absurd. he is still developing, no doubt, but yeah he has that baby hook in the works and more.....ur just mad because your stuck watching Yao Ming's boring *** either gettin hurt or gettin bounced in 1st round year after year. I understand, i would be pretty upset too, but just face it.......The future is now. Dwight is better then Yao's bum ***.


lol, ok, I don't care how many bodies they throw at Dwight, the Jazz do the same thing with there wing players to T-Mac and T-Mac still dominates do you know why? He is dominate and has moves, Yao also owns the Pistons, he has first 20-20 game against them and the Pistons DOUBLE him, So your argument is flawed, Dwight is developing post moves yes, but he does not have much and is very raw probably the most raw in the game with Tyson Chandler. The only reason why Shaq didn't do well against the Pistons is because he was feuding with Kobe and the team's chemistry did not work well at that point so your argument is flawed

Yao is better than dwight, when did i say Dwight is hakeem? And as i said even if he does suck against the pistons like he does against the rockets he should at least use moves instead of pure athleticism.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


> lol, ok, I don't care how many bodies they throw at Dwight, the Jazz do the same thing with there wing players to T-Mac and T-Mac still dominates do you know why? He is dominate and has moves, Yao also owns the Pistons, he has first 20-20 game against them and the Pistons DOUBLE him, So your argument is flawed, Dwight is developing post moves yes, but he does not have much and is very raw probably the most raw in the game with Tyson Chandler. The only reason why Shaq didn't do well against the Pistons is because he was feuding with Kobe and the team's chemistry did not work well at that point so your argument is flawed
> 
> Yao is better than dwight, when did i say Dwight is hakeem? And as i said even if he does suck against the pistons like he does against the rockets he should at least use moves instead of pure athleticism.


He did use moves bro....... they just mugged him before he could get an easy layup/dunk up so he would have to make FT's.....It's not that hard to grasp buddy. If he beat Maxiel or 'Dyess, Sheed would just wrap him up under the basket and Vice-versa. You saying he has zero moves is just flat out wrong tho. Im just trying to get all of the facts out there. And if I recall, Dwight put up 22-18 in game 2 against detroit.....that's right up there with your boy Yao and he also broke multiple 30+ year old records in round 1 that has not been acheived by Yao, or Shaq, or Duncan, or KG(three 20-20 games in a series, and a back-to-back 20-20 game sin a series....Tyson Chandler cant even touch this record btw...). You just get too caught up with what happens in one or two games here and there but you need to look at the whole picture in terms of dominating across the league(injuries and all), which point to Dwight as the better player....sry man

And please, you dont have to tell a Magic fan what TMac can and cannot do. :wink:


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

I'm not sure how Yao is so much better than Howard offensively, considering he only averaged 1 more point per game this season. On top of that it took him 4 more shots a game to get that advantage and he shot only 50% compared to Howard's 60%. Give Howard 16 shots a game and I guarantee he is averaging 24 to 25 points a game, which is probably what he will be putting up next season considering his offensive game will improve and he will be the #1 option on his team.

As far as defense and rebounding go, Howard > Yao now and forever. Howard is the youngest player in NBA history to win a rebounding title and he just made his first all defensive team. Howard is just getting started. Yao is balancing out, entering his prime years. He won't get any better, especially considering he is injury prone. Howard still has a good 4 to 5 years before he is even getting to that point as far as his prime goes. He has never missed a game in 4 years so he is as durable as they come.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

I'm arguing with a bunch of magic homers.


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## Cambridgeshire (Jan 15, 2005)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


> I'm arguing with a bunch of magic homers.


Agreed.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

I'm not a Magic homer whatsoever, I think they are foolish for letting JJ rot on their bench and I literally despise the entire franchise for it (I love Duke, and JJ is my godson HOLLA).

That being said, this isn't even close. Dwight Howard is a better rebounder, better defender, better shot blocker. Yao is a better scorer, no doubt. However Howard is still very young and has plenty of time to develop his offensive game.

It's Howard hands down, though.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

GregOden said:


> I'm not a Magic homer whatsoever, I think they are foolish for letting JJ rot on their bench and I literally despise the entire franchise for it (I love Duke, and JJ is my godson HOLLA).
> 
> That being said, this isn't even close. Dwight Howard is a better rebounder, better defender, better shot blocker. Yao is a better scorer, no doubt. However Howard is still very young and has plenty of time to develop his offensive game.
> 
> It's Howard hands down, though.


You aren't a magic homer, but you are unintelligent.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

Obviously because I disagree with you, I know absolutely nothing about anything. What was I thinking.

Your brain is too huge. 

You say Dwight Howard relies almostly completely on his athleticism to score, and yet he's only averaging 2.5 less ppg than Yao career wise (even though he shoots a substantially higher % Yao = 52% Dwight = 56.7%). Even though their blocks are essentially the same, their assists are essentially the same, and Dwight out rebounds him (3 more rebounds per game on average than Yao) offensively and defensively. 

But I'm sure your HUGE brain already knew that.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

GregOden said:


> Obviously because I disagree with you, I know absolutely nothing about anything. What was I thinking.
> 
> Your brain is too huge.
> 
> ...


Yao is a much better passer than Dwight, it's sad because Dwight has very good shooters on his team and he only has 1 assist, Yao and the Rockets don't have many good shooters and he has 2 APG,


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 23, 2005)

rocketeer said:


> you must have missed his first 3 years in the league when he missed a total of two games. yao putting together an 82 game season is something that definitely has happened.


I am talking about the present and hoping he can put together an 82 game in the future. Not the past.

The thread is not comparing a Yao in the past to Howard today. If that was the case, I don't see how Yao could win even when healthy. We are talking about a Yao today.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Howard won't be better than Yao until he can do something other than outmuscle people on offense. He can't pass out of double teams, he can't really pass period...Yao is so much more talented then him this shouldn't have been nearly 80posts.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Dre™ said:


> Howard won't be better than Yao until he can do something other than outmuscle people on offense. He can't pass out of double teams, he can't really pass period...Yao is so much more talented then him this shouldn't have been nearly 80posts.


I agree, People are taking flash over fire, like Jordan said in his commercial, maybe you thought my game was built by flash and not fire.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

Yao Ming. Dwight Howard relies way too much on his physical gifts and he still can develop his skills. As strong as he is he still gets pushed around quite a bit. Ming is a better passer, shooter, and gives you a much more versatile offensive presence.


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

I'd take Dwight over Yao, he is definitely a better player and has more potential at this point of his career.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


> I agree, People are taking flash over fire, like Jordan said in his commercial, maybe you thought my game was built by flash and not fire.


Dwight has more flash AND fire than Yao will ever have man.......I wanna know which Yao Ming have you been watching?!? I dont see the passion........I dont see that fire....:thinking2:.....I see a skilled, talented, but methodical 7-6 big man, who does his job and fills a role. Being 7-6, and as agile as he is gives him a distinct advantage that NOBODY else has so he gets boards & blocks by default, but that doesn't give him "fire". He doesn't really BEAST on anybody really, or pump up his team like Dwight does with his energy or as you call it, "fire".....His "fire" is no where near the level of Dwight's man, so please stop making that baseless reference that you keep pulling out of nowhere.....

We are talking about centers here. Against the rest of the league, Dwight is more efficient at what he does on the offensive end. He is banger in every sense of the word. He is not a PF. I dont want him shooting 18 footers on the regular like Yao Ming. Last year he also pulled more boards, blocks, & steals per game then Yao Ming.......Where are you guys getting this misinformation that Yao is head over heels the better defender :thinking2:......The logic & #'s being put forth by some of the Yao supporters is just skewed, and quite frankly, wrong.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

bball2223 said:


> Yao Ming. Dwight Howard relies way too much on his physical gifts and he still can develop his skills. As strong as he is he still gets pushed around quite a bit. Ming is a better passer, shooter, and gives you a much more versatile offensive presence.


Yao is a better passer & shooter, but thats pretty much it.......He's not a better finisher, rebounder, or shotblocker.....overall, by no means can you legitimately say that he is a "better" overall defender like you guys claim, as a matter of fact, the #'s this year actually suggest otherwise. Let's just get all of the facts out their and lets evaluate their overall production. Going by production, Dwight wins this argument every day.......:whistling:


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


> Yao is a much better passer than Dwight, it's sad because Dwight has very good shooters on his team and he only has 1 assist, Yao and the Rockets don't have many good shooters and he has 2 APG,


It's sad that out of all the info I brought to the table, you were only able to argue against one of the points. And your argument is still pretty terrible, you're raving about Yao's passing even though his career average is .2 higher for apg.

And yeah T Mac is a terrible shooter. Certainly no Jameer Nelson. 

Not to mention Dwight seems to be a lot more durable than Yao. Yao hasn't played all 82 games since the 03-04 season. Dwight on the other hand has only missed one game in four years.


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## BlakeJesus (Feb 1, 2006)

Dre™ said:


> Howard won't be better than Yao until he can do something other than outmuscle people on offense. He can't pass out of double teams, he can't really pass period...Yao is so much more talented then him this shouldn't have been nearly 80posts.


And the crazy part is that he's still scoring almost as much as Yao on average, and doing it at a significantly higher % as well. Imagine once some moves get developed.


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

*Man I can't wait until Oden, Bynum, and Horford REALLY come into their own, so watching them go at it against Dwight (and each other) for the next 5-8 years is everything that it should be.*


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

the delusional magic fans have came out, I'm only going to respond to people that have a clue of what they are saying.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Blue Magic said:


> Dwight has more flash AND fire than Yao will ever have man.......I wanna know which Yao Ming have you been watching?!? I dont see the passion........I dont see that fire....:thinking2:.....I see a skilled, talented, but methodical 7-6 big man, who does his job and fills a role. Being 7-6, and as agile as he is gives him a distinct advantage that NOBODY else has so he gets boards & blocks by default, but that doesn't give him "fire". He doesn't really BEAST on anybody really, or pump up his team like Dwight does with his energy or as you call it, "fire".....His "fire" is no where near the level of Dwight's man, so please stop making that baseless reference that you keep pulling out of nowhere.....
> 
> We are talking about centers here. Against the rest of the league, Dwight is more efficient at what he does on the offensive end. He is banger in every sense of the word. He is not a PF. I dont want him shooting 18 footers on the regular like Yao Ming. Last year he also pulled more boards, blocks, & steals per game then Yao Ming.......Where are you guys getting this misinformation that Yao is head over heels the better defender :thinking2:......The logic & #'s being put forth by some of the Yao supporters is just skewed, and quite frankly, wrong.


Can you please pull out a fact and not a opinion?
Thanks, maybe you would have some credibility if you use facts and stats like i did in the 1st post.


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

GregOden said:


> Dwight on the other hand has only missed one game in four years.


Howard didn't miss that game. He played but didn't start.


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## Numero Uno (Oct 21, 2007)

I'd take Dwight any day of the week.

He just posesses more authority on both the offensive and defensive sides of the ball IMO. 

If I was starting a team with a Center, I'd take Dwight over Yao easily.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

DPETE56 said:


> I'd take Dwight any day of the week.
> 
> He just posesses more authority on both the offensive and defensive sides of the ball IMO.
> 
> If I was starting a team with a Center, I'd take Dwight over Yao easily.


On offense?
You are a joke.


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

30-27 Dwight  30 People got it right so far.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Ouch. Terrible discussion. All "I like my team so my team's player is the best, you're an idiot if you think otherwise."

You guys can do better.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Minstrel said:


> Ouch. Terrible discussion. All "I like my team so my team's player is the best, you're an idiot if you think otherwise."
> 
> You guys can do better.



Go to NBA.com and compare this years #'s................


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## LameR (Jan 4, 2004)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


> the delusional magic fans have came out, I'm only going to respond to people that have a clue of what they are saying.


Is that limited to people who disagree with you?


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


> what moves?* If he has so many moves why is it that the Pistons only needed an 1 above average defender to guard him instead of a double team like they do to Yao?* Are you saying Dwight is too afraid to use moves to own them or something? LMAO, Dwight has no moves, Yeh, he has a bankshot AN INCONSISTENT one, The only move he really has is a hook shot that doesn't go in often and a spin move that doesn't work too often either. Shaq had TONS Of post moves.
> 
> Pat ewing will help dwight? Yeah whatever makes you sleep at night, Mutombo has probably helped more than Ewing has ever done when he was assistant for the Rockets. The only thing Ewing does is pick his nose in the sidelines.


Yawn. 

Just reported. Dwight play'd the Detroit series with a stress fracture in his sternum..... Probably part of why he play'd poorly in that series I would say...:cabbagepatch:.......oh next him having "zero" post moves, of course. :thumbdown:


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Blue Magic said:


> Yawn.
> 
> Just reported. Dwight play'd the Detroit series with a stress fracture in his sternum..... Probably part of why he play'd poorly in that series I would say...:cabbagepatch:.......oh next him having "zero" post moves, of course. :thumbdown:


LMAO, dwight just doesn't have any moves.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Blue Magic said:


> Go to NBA.com and compare this years #'s................


Dwight Howard:
2004-05: 17.2 PER
2005-06: 19.3 PER
2006-07: 21.1 PER
2007-08: 22.9 PER

Yao Ming:
2002-03: 20.6 PER
2003-04: 21.9 PER
2004-05: 23.2 PER
2005-06: 25.6 PER
2006-07: 26.5 PER
2007-08: 22.5 PER

Howard is younger, but has never been as good as Yao was from 2004 on (on average). Last year, a year Yao got hurt, they were equal. It's possible that Howard will equal or exceed Yao, but he hasn't yet.

As for defense, I'd give Howard the advantage on team defense and Yao the advantage on man defense. Yao is one of the best defenders of big men in the game, while Howard is a tremendous shot-blocker.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

How about I just post this years stats for the people to see...

Dwight Howard | Yao Ming | Advantage

FG% - 0.599 |	0.507 | D12
FT% - 0.590 |	0.850 | Yao
OFF - 3.4 |	3.1 | D12
DEF - 10.8 |	7.7 | D12
RPG - 14.2 |	10.8 | D12
APG - 1.3 |	2.3 | Yao
SPG - 0.9 |	0.4 | D12
BPG - 2.2 |	2.0 | D12
TO - 3.21 |	3.33 | D12
PF - 3.30 |	3.10 | Yao
PPG - 20.7 | 22.0 | Yao

Also, as far as Howard being a subpar man-on-man defender goes....He is the #1 center in the league when it comes to opponents per...... He is obviously doing something right on his man to pull a stat like that.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

Blue Magic said:


> Also, as far as Howard being a subpar man-on-man defender goes....He is the #1 center in the league when it comes to opponents per...... He is obviously doing something right on his man to pull a stat like that.


so PER is meaningful for their opponents but not meaningful for them? how convenient.

also were the words subpar used?

yao is a little better than dwight right now when healthy. one key word there is little. both are very good(top 10) players in the league.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

Undefeated82 said:


> How is right now when healthy even possible? Especially because right now one of these guys is not healthy.


Apparently, neither guy is healthy right now.


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## K-Dub (Jun 26, 2005)

Blue Magic said:


> How about I just post this years stats for the people to see...
> 
> Dwight Howard | Yao Ming | Advantage
> 
> ...


Other than FG% and Defensive Rebounding, the difference in most of their stats is minute. Which is why I don't understand why people think D12 is unarguably better than Yao.


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

yao ming easy......


his all around game is much better.....while dwight has him beat in athletic ability of course


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

Pimped Out said:


> Apparently, neither guy is healthy right now.


Don't really matter to me, what did Yao avg. for the playoffs? You know where I'm trying to get at, you lose credibility when you have to add, "when healthy." Dwight is on Yao's level when healthy, arguably better/worse, one can debate for either one. But since health is a factor that contributes to player value/impact, then Dwight was the better player overall 07-08 season.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

rocketeer said:


> so PER is meaningful for their opponents but not meaningful for them? how convenient.
> 
> also were the words subpar used?
> 
> yao is a little better than dwight right now when healthy. one key word there is little. both are very good(top 10) players in the league.


Lol, when did I say PER wasnt meaningful?!? PER is an offensive stat, so FT's really hurt Dwight as well as his low assists #'s.....I was just using it on the defensive end to debunk the myth that he a lesser man-on-man defender. The only big man to hold his individual opponent to a lower PER per game was KG.........


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Undefeated82 said:


> Don't really matter to me, what did Yao avg. for the playoffs? You know where I'm trying to get at, you lose credibility when you have to add, "when healthy." Dwight is on Yao's level when healthy, arguably better/worse, one can debate for either one. But since health is a factor that contributes to player value/impact, then Dwight was the better player overall 07-08 season.


Yao has done a pretty good job in the playoffs if you saw my 1st post, He has provided a great amount of stats his team has just not gone through in the clutch situations in the playoffs.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

I don't think any of you realizes that Dwight is a pure shot blocker and that is what you look for in a post defender, so that's what makes him a better defender, but Yao is the better man to man defender. Dwight does not stop anybody in the league, he is a better help-side defender and that's about it. The stat you showed me is very flawed.


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


> Yao has done a pretty good job in the playoffs if you saw my 1st post, He has provided a great amount of stats his team has just not gone through in the clutch situations in the playoffs.


I did see your post, but my post is about durability, Yao avg. 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 in the 07-08 playoffs. Durability is a *BIG * factor of a players value.
The only time Yao has played to his potential playoffs wise was 06-07, he underachieved the previous two times.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


> I don't think any of you realizes that Dwight is a pure shot blocker and that is what you look for in a post defender, so that's what makes him a better defender, but Yao is the better man to man defender. Dwight does not stop anybody in the league, he is a better help-side defender and that's about it. The stat you showed me is very flawed.


Yes, he is an excellent shotblocker but why is shotblocking and being a good man-defender have to be mutually exclusive in your mind? Are you basically saying that one cannot excel in shot-blocking AND playing shut down D?!?


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Undefeated82 said:


> I did see your post, but my post is about durability, Yao avg. 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 in the 07-08 playoffs. Durability is a *BIG * factor of a players value.
> The only time Yao has played to his potential playoffs wise was 06-07, he underachieved the previous two times.


As the stats i showed, Yao did pretty well in the other playoffs not really underachieved the first playoff he went to was against the prime shaq and in the Mavericks Series, HE was the only one who performed in the Game 7 he had 33-10 game then. I forgot to put that up.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Blue Magic said:


> Yes, he is an excellent shotblocker but why is shotblocking and being a good man-defender have to be mutually exclusive in your mind? Are you basically saying that one cannot excel in shot-blocking AND playing shut down D?!?


i'm not saying that, i'm just saying dwight isn't.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

Undefeated82 said:


> I did see your post, but my post is about durability, Yao avg. 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 in the 07-08 playoffs. Durability is a *BIG * factor of a players value.
> The only time Yao has played to his potential playoffs wise was 06-07, he underachieved the previous two times.


nice Red Haring you presented there.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Can't people just accept that Yao is better now, jeez.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


> Can't people just accept that Yao is better now, jeez.


Because it's not inarguable.

Yao is more productive when he plays, but he's less durable, so plays less.

And defense is quite opinion-driven...both are above-average in man and team defense. How much you esteem them in each and how much weight you put on each will lead you to different defensive values for each.

When Yao is healthy, I'd take Yao. Taking one for next season, it's very difficult to say, due to Yao's injury risk.


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## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


> Can't people just accept that Yao is better now, jeez.


thank you for the stubborn quote of the day. :azdaja:


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

*Geet Geet Geet*


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## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


> Can't people just accept that Yao is better now, jeez.


Yao just needs a better point-forward to distribute the ball.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

unluckyseventeen said:


> Yao just needs a better point-forward to distribute the ball.


Hahaha


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Yao Ming > Fright coward

Until Dwight can something besides dunk and failing to outplay Yao, then he ain't better


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## GrayFan34 (Jul 7, 2008)

34 voted for Dwight and 31 for Yao so i guess its Dwight > Yao


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Fail, You just listen to what everybody else says? *EDIT.*


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## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


> Fail, You just listen to what everybody else says? you dick rider?


:boohoo2:


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Look magic fans, Dwight is a great player and a future beast but he is not better than Yao Ming at the moment.


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## GrayFan34 (Jul 7, 2008)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


> Fail, You just listen to what everybody else says? *EDIT.*


Why are you so obsessed with this subject so much?

I know you do the same thing on espn.com


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

GrayFan34 said:


> Why are you so obsessed with this subject so much?
> 
> I know you do the same thing on espn.com


haha elmouse03.


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## GrayFan34 (Jul 7, 2008)

Seriously tmacyaokobe1 why are you so obsessed with this subject? Everybody is entitled to their own opinions. Why cant you just let it go?


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Oh well, If you picked Yao, I would've stop this garbage, but since you didn't. I have to continue

You have no proof that I would've or wouldn't have stopped.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

edit - actually, i'm not going to contribute to this thread.


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## Sonic R (Sep 14, 2008)

Why is this thread still open :whoknows:

WTF 9 pages :sigh:


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

Dwight>Yao :smoothcriminal:


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Undefeated82 said:


> Dwight>Yao :smoothcriminal:


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

I take Dwight. Yao is more skilled without question, but Dwight is much more athletic and strong, and I think you can be far more flexible with your offense with Dwight. You can play uptempo and know he'll run with you, or run a halfcourt game and he can dominate the middle. He is not only far more durable, but can play more minutes. 

Yao is really good but I feel he is a guy who you need to have the stars in perfect alignment for you to win with him. There are just too many variables to his success.


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> I take Dwight. Yao is more skilled without question, but Dwight is much more athletic and strong, and I think you can be far more flexible with your offense with Dwight. You can play uptempo and know he'll run with you, or run a halfcourt game and he can dominate the middle. He is not only far more durable, but can play more minutes.


It's a myth that Yao can't play in an uptempo offense. Those who followed the Rockets closely during JVG's time there knew that Yao was at near his best when the team was allowed to run. He's not leading fast breaks, but his passing and ability to hit jumpers are valuable there. He struggles against the Warriors and Suns not because they play at a fast pace, but because being undersized, they send by far the most help defense. It's for defensive reasons that the Rockets don't run.


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


>


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

All said and done

Yao Ming > Dwight Howard


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