# David Lee - All Star Material



## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

This has been written in the majority of the Knick blogs on the net, in other Knick forums, and even some beat writers are starting to take on the theme that the Knicks should have a representative in the 2009 All-Star Game. The consensus is that David Lee should be selected as a reserve, he is now tied for 1st in double doubles this season. Anyone in disagreement?


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

I think D'Antoni's system works against him... people view his numbers as inflated.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

^ Ever snce that ******* beat writer that wrote about players that played for Mike, everyone is on that inflated stats bandwagon. Lee is a very poor example to use for that arguement, he has been good before Mike got here.


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## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

true but hes just another hustle player

we might as well add Tyson Chandler, Al Horford and Luis Scola because they hustle hard too and put up same kind of numbers


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

chairman5 said:


> true but hes just another hustle player
> 
> we might as well add Tyson Chandler, Al Horford and Luis Scola because they hustle hard too and put up same kind of numbers


Tyson, Scola are all in the West, no sense in comparing them in an All-Star reserve debate if we talking about the East. Scola is 26 and Tyson is 29 respectively. Lee is 5th in rebound stats alone, and Horford is 23rd.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*"true but hes just another hustle player"*

Any idea how ignorant of a statement that is? He has a decent(not great) jumper, has been 2nd(I believe)in boarding since being a starter, shoots 55%, and is averaging close to 18 in the same span. He has beaten every single player he has faced when given an iso opportunity and is a +3 (or better) over his opponents this season. If it was so easy to be one of the top 3 rebounders and average 18 and lead the league in double doubles....how come more guys don't do it? Why not just give him his props? Nobody complained that all Shaq could do was dunk, did they?


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: "true but hes just another hustle player"*



alphaorange said:


> Any idea how ignorant of a statement that is? He has a decent(not great) jumper, has been 2nd(I believe)in boarding since being a starter, shoots 55%, and is averaging close to 18 in the same span. He has beaten every single player he has faced when given an iso opportunity and is a +3 (or better) over his opponents this season. If it was so easy to be one of the top 3 rebounders and average 18 and lead the league in double doubles....how come more guys don't do it? Why not just give him his props? *Nobody complained that all Shaq could do was dunk, did they?*


yeah , people did say that and of course they sounded dumb.but shaq when all he could do on offense was dunk and bang into people, was still a dominant defender as well as a top rebounder, while dunking his way to 22-30 points a game.

but lee no all star. he's not dominant on either side of the ball, most all stars who are good/great rebounder worthy of all star consideration


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## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

If Tyrone Hill could make an All Star team, why not Lee?


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Krstic All Star said:


> If Tyrone Hill could make an All Star team, why not Lee?



james donaldson and jamaal magliore made it too...i'm not saying its an imposibility, but there is a caliber of player you associate with the term all star and lee isn't there despite the hoopla....just like hill, donaldson and magliore.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

USSKittyHawk said:


> ^ Ever snce that ******* beat writer that wrote about players that played for Mike, everyone is on that inflated stats bandwagon. Lee is a very poor example to use for that arguement, he has been good before Mike got here.


Well, my perception has nothing to do with a beat writer... many of us knew the impact a D'Anotni system would have (and I'm the happy owner of both David Lee and Chris Duhon in my fantasy hoops league as a result) on the team he coached and the teams they played...

I've been following the Knicks box scores, and it is pretty hard to deny... I'm not saying Lee isn't good, I love the way he plays and I love his offensive efficiency. The Knicks aren't a winning team, so getting into the ASG requires some serious #'s... when the system so obviously impacts those #'s I think it is worth noting.


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

I love David Lee, maybe my favorite non buck, id love him to get in


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## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

Da Grinch said:


> james donaldson and jamaal magliore made it too...i'm not saying its an imposibility, but there is a caliber of player you associate with the term all star and lee isn't there despite the hoopla....just like hill, donaldson and magliore.


Or even Charles Oakley - who made it in the '93-'94 season (for the only time in his career) with numbers lower than Lee's...

Or Dale Davis, Jayson Williams etc. It seems like every couple of years that kind of supporting player gets in.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Lee's expanded stats are actually pretty similar to last year, the biggest "trick" was to give him more minutes and D'Antoni did that which wasn't hard to figure out. Last year Lee played 29 mpg, this year his playing time is up to 35 mpg which resulted in an increase of his basic numbers.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Lol. I loved Lee since he was @ UF, but no he's not an all-star, just a great role player.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

Dornado said:


> Well, my perception has nothing to do with a beat writer... many of us knew the impact a D'Anotni system would have (and I'm the happy owner of both David Lee and Chris Duhon in my fantasy hoops league as a result) on the team he coached and the teams they played...
> 
> I've been following the Knicks box scores, and it is pretty hard to deny... I'm not saying Lee isn't good, I love the way he plays and I love his offensive efficiency. The Knicks aren't a winning team, so getting into the ASG requires some serious #'s... when the system so obviously impacts those #'s I think it is worth noting.


Plenty of players received All-Star nods on non-winning teams, so that argument is a flawed one. Ya'lll really need to watch games, instead of just following box scores in a debate, that does not dictate everything you need to know about a player.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

dale davis record during their all star season as of 1/29
28-15

ty hill 26-15

jayson williams 25-19

charles oakley 30-11

david lee this year 20-25

yes star players get all star nods off of losing teams...but supporting players dont.

in the east you have 
dwight howard 
garnett
pierce
lebron
joe johnson 
dwayne wade
bosh 
granger 
as basically locks and a group of other players 

of vince carter and devin harris as guys who should get in and the last 2 spots 

jamison , butler from the wizards
wallace and okafor from the bobcats
calderon
iverson from the pistons 
or possibly andre miller
josh smith
ray allen
mo williams or big Z in cleve. 
rondo
rashard lewis hedo and jameer nelson

can all make just as convincing arguments if not moreso than Lee.

the only way i can see is if they plug him in as a center....no way as a power forward.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

AI's already on the team


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

USSKittyHawk said:


> Plenty of players received All-Star nods on non-winning teams, so that argument is a flawed one. Ya'lll really need to watch games, instead of just following box scores in a debate, that does not dictate everything you need to know about a player.


With all due respect, you brought up his number of double-doubles in your original argument... if you don't want me to mention boxscores, don't make a statistical argument.

I do watch the games, and I do think that Lee is a very good player... my argument was that those all-stars who weren't on winning teams had outstanding statistics... and that it was fair to consider a teams style of play when valuing statistics... I don't see your point that "plenty of player received all-star nods on non-winning teams" as being particularly harmful to the logic of that argument.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

Dornado said:


> With all due respect, you brought up his number of double-doubles in your original argument... if you don't want me to mention boxscores, don't make a statistical argument.
> 
> I do watch the games, and I do think that Lee is a very good player... my argument was that those all-stars who weren't on winning teams had outstanding statistics... and that it was fair to consider a teams style of play when valuing statistics... I don't see your point that "plenty of player received all-star nods on non-winning teams" as being particularly harmful to the logic of that argument.


I mentioned box scores in that particular arguement in terms of where he was among other players that another member mentioned who felt should also be considered for the spot. Last time I checked All-Star was based on individual performance not a team record and if you watched the games you would see that he is a valuable asset for this team. 

I can't wait to see if any coaches will give him a couple of votes when the reserve tally is added up.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

USSKittyHawk said:


> I mentioned box scores in that particular arguement in terms of where he was among other players that another member mentioned who felt should also be considered for the spot. Last time I checked All-Star was based on individual performance not a team record and if you watched the games you would see that he is a valuable asset for this team.
> 
> I can't wait to see if any coaches will give him a couple of votes when the reserve tally is added up.



I didn't really follow the first sentence.


I agree that David Lee is individually valuable to the Knicks... but team record still has to be considered. Of the forwards likely to make the team, who would you replace with Lee? And as a side note, do you think the Knicks would be better as a team with Lee than with that particular player (or players)?


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

Like Chris Webber said, All-Star games should be for individual players, playoffs should be for winning teams. The end. lol Oh and like Grinch stated, he could be in as a center, but I really think without him on the puts backs, rebounds, etc. we would have a worse record. If we had to count on Jefferies then that would be a straight up disaster.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*I agree with Kitty*

Despite the team underachieving to this point, they have been coming on as of late. Lee is statistically better than several guys on the team. Where does anyone think this team would be without him? Dumper city. He outplays almost everyone he is matched against....has a higher rating.....scores in every way but 3s...averages 2 assists....1 steal. His numbers are better than J Smith's. And BTW, AI's numbers do not say all-star to me.....pretty weak. Big Z? Are you kidding me. Lee BLOWS HIM AWAY. Somebody needs to spend more time watching and a little more time stat searching. Lee is deserving without a doubt.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: I agree with Kitty*



alphaorange said:


> Despite the team underachieving to this point, they have been coming on as of late. Lee is statistically better than several guys on the team. Where does anyone think this team would be without him? Dumper city. He outplays almost everyone he is matched against....has a higher rating.....scores in every way but 3s...averages 2 assists....1 steal. His numbers are better than J Smith's. And BTW, AI's numbers do not say all-star to me.....pretty weak. Big Z? Are you kidding me. Lee BLOWS HIM AWAY. Somebody needs to spend more time watching and a little more time stat searching. Lee is deserving without a doubt.


PER
Big Z 21.1
josh smith 17.7
Lee 18.4

he is certainly not blowing people out the water , he just plays more minutes than big z, the cavs have the best record in the league that alone usually gets another all star bid.

smith beats him in most stat categories points, ast , steals, blocks 



http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...YF?slug=aw-allstars012909&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

reserves named


> The East reserves include two Orlando Magic, Jameer Nelson and Rashard Lewis. East coaches also chose the Boston Celtics’ Paul Pierce, Atlanta Hawks’ Joe Johnson, Toronto Raptors’ Chris Bosh, New Jersey Nets’ Devin Harris and Indiana Pacers’ Danny Granger.


who out that group does lee legitamitely can say he has played better than?


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## Truknicksfan (Mar 25, 2005)

Lee didnt make it, but as long as he keeps helping us win thats all I care about.

Props to david for a great first half.

And this is whats even better about david lee, you know now he'll just work even harder to try to make the team next year.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

^TKF do you know if he received any votes from the coaches?

Edit: I'm rooting for the West this year. Go Shaq!


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

I like Lee. He was a beast in that one rookie-sophomore game a couple years ago too. It looks like Shard got that last forward spot though, and Jameer got the last guard spot. I definitely was not expecting 3 Magic Men to make the squad, i was hoping we could just get two. Something had to give though i guess... There always a couple snubs every year...


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## Truknicksfan (Mar 25, 2005)

> I like Lee. He was a beast in that one rookie-sophomore game a couple years ago too. It looks like Shard got that last forward spot though, and Jameer got the last guard spot. I definitely was not expecting 3 Magic Men to make the squad, i was hoping we could just get two. Something had to give though i guess... There always a couple snubs every year...


Very true, there are only so many spots each year. It will only make it that much more special when he does make it. Congrats on having three magic make the team btw.


P.S Thanks for the post. Normally other team's fans just want to troll lol.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*The All-Star reserves has always been POLITICS in the NBA.* 

*Lewis and Granger over David Lee.....is Bullshuuuut!* 
F/G 6.10 Hedo Turk is the best all-around consistent player on the Orlando Magic for the last 5 years playing 4-positions on that team to average 17-4-4 with a low turnover ratio of 1.7 (Granger & Lewis dont compare to Hedo). 
Knick-Fans would consider Gallo an ALL-Star (or Super Star) if he could perform like Hedo for just one season. 

*The Eastern Conference is very very very low on PG.....*especially when "Nelson and Harris" are selected as reserves. But get this....a few commentators on the Cavs vs Magic game felt the Cavs PG-Mo Williams should've been selected too being they have the top winning record and only one Cavs player made the All-Star team. 
It's not looking good for the East when this is the best they can do in looking for an ALL-STAR PG in the Eastern Conference. 
Marbury definitely....have to be putting out a hit on coach Dantoni after seeing the selection of the East reserves. 

*Maybe....*just maybe this is why PG-Duhon has been looking so appealing this season....I'm just saying maybe after looking at the East All-Star roster. 

If David Lee would've made the "ALL-STAR" Team....we New Yorker's would've been waving good-bye to the $12M per David Lee whom performed at a MVP in R/S all-star game....plus performed very well under coach Brown, coach Isiah, and coach Dantoni's system.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

(1)Um talking about consistency, that is one thing that Lewis has been far more of than Hedo...... Lewis deserves it this year, but honestly Hedo is right behind him and deserved it more last year. Caron Butler can have a legitamite beef over both for being snubbed, as well as the Lee's, Allen's, VC's, & Mo Will's of the world. At the end the day though, there is only 12 roster spots... Magic got pretty fortunate this year, but we've had our share of snubbs in the past like anyone else...

(2)Jameer has either gone toe-to-toe with or outperformed every west coast PG he has went up against this year. Only exception was Baron Davis.... I agree, he's still not on the status of Deron Williams or Chris Pual, but i definitely think he has legit case to be on that 2nd tier with guys like TP, Billups, Nash, etc. I think many will be surprised by Meer in the all-star game. I know it's not the most 'sexy' pick by the coaches, but JaMeer's got a tight little game. Probably some of the best handles in the league if you ask me, and hella efficient. He's gonna want to put on a show too, since ppl still question him. The west better look out, if they think Jameer is just a pushover they got another thing coming.


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## anru321 (Jul 13, 2002)

Kiyaman said:


> *The All-Star reserves has always been POLITICS in the NBA.*
> 
> *Lewis and Granger over David Lee.....is Bullshuuuut!*
> F/G 6.10 Hedo Turk is the best all-around consistent player on the Orlando Magic for the last 5 years playing 4-positions on that team to average 17-4-4 with a low turnover ratio of 1.7 (Granger & Lewis dont compare to Hedo).
> ...


Lee has had a good year but cmon there's no way he's making it over Granger who is having a ridiculous season. I def. disagree with Shard being on the team but that's what happens when your team is 35-10. ( I hate attributing team success to individual success in stuff like this. If they had to pick three guys from a good team it should have been Boston and Ray Allen) I would have put VC in the game over Shard but that's just me.


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