# Sums up another Bulls free agency period.



## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Melo back to NYC.
Lebron to Miami or Cleveland, *WITH *the chance of trading for Kevin Love.
Parsons to Dallas or back to Houston.
Hayward to the Hornets or back to Utah.

2000, 2010 and now 2014. Congrats Bulls. 

My greatest fear will probably come true, overpaying Lance, Gasol or *gasp* bringing back Luol Deng... Or even worse, NOT amnestying Boozer. 

If the Love rumor is real, the Bulls need to block this trade at all costs. No way the Bulls EVER beat a Cavs team of Lebron and Love. Trade whatever it takes to get him, Noah, Taj, Butler, WHATEVER. If Miami or Cleveland get both, the Bulls have 0 chance of winning the East for half a decade. Window would be FULLY SHUT.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

If Rose is healthy I think the Bulls should look for some realistic options at SF. Evan Turner or Trevor Ariza would fit nicely.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

seifer0406 said:


> If Rose is healthy I think the Bulls should look for some realistic options at SF. Evan Turner or Trevor Ariza would fit nicely.


Turner could not even get burn on a Pacers team desperate for offense. Ariza is meh, looking for too much money.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Turner could not even get burn on a Pacers team desperate for offense. Ariza is meh, looking for too much money.


Yep, I'm not sure Evan Turner is an NBA caliber player at this point. He's ok with the ball in his hands and has decent touch from mid-range, but he's almost worthless when he's not in isolation mode and he's the worst defender I've seen in Indiana in years. So, he could be mildly effective for Chicago in the 8-10 mpg that Rose isn't playing, but Thibs would sit his ass down immediately because he'd miss a rotation, get burned on a backdoor cut, miss a switch, or get his ankles broken. Ariza might be perfect, though, if Chicago can afford him.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

In response to Ariza, yes hes a good fit. But hes not the missing piece to competing for a title, not even close. How can you sell Trevor Ariza as the big free agent signing to Bulls fans? Well, this is the same fan base that considers Noah and Taj untouchables, so I guess pleasing them would be fairly easy.


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## KFitz14 (Jun 3, 2014)

eh. Get rid of Boozer somehow, sign Lance to a semi-reasonable deal (he won't get overpaid as much as the other wings because of the perceived attitude issues) as a secondary ball-handler, and bring over Mirotic, and that is easily the 2nd best team in the East if Rose is close to his old self.

The Bulls' front office can't control where free agents want to go, and the truth is Chicago is probably the least desirable of the big market teams because of the lack of glamour involved. Stars these days want to go somewhere where they can have fun as well as play basketball, be it with their teammates or elsewhere. The Bulls organization has the image (fair or not) of being a bit of a buzzkill with Rose being so reserved and Thibs being Thibs. That's why I said in another thread that Noah should be the lead on any FA pitch (he's more "fun", or outwardly emotional, or whatever it is), though for that same reason he tends to rub people on other teams the wrong way when playing against them at least.


thebizkit69u said:


> If the Love rumor is real, the Bulls need to block this trade at all costs. No way the Bulls EVER beat a Cavs team of Lebron and Love. Trade whatever it takes to get him, Noah, Taj, Butler, WHATEVER. If Miami or Cleveland get both, the Bulls have 0 chance of winning the East for half a decade. Window would be FULLY SHUT.


If executed that trade would take away Wiggins, Thompson, probably Waiters, and probably at least one other asset. So they would be left with Kyrie, LeBron, Love, probably Varejao, and little else. And only LeBron and Varejao (a long time ago) would have any playoff experience. So not unbeatable.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

KFitz14 said:


> If executed that trade would take away Wiggins, Thompson, probably Waiters, and probably at least one other asset. So they would be left with Kyrie, LeBron, Love, probably Varejao, and little else. And only LeBron and Varejao (a long time ago) would have any playoff experience. So not unbeatable.


The Bulls din't even stand a chance against a trio of Lebron, Wade and Bosh. They stand NO CHANCE against a younger core of Irving and Love. Unbeatable? Sure if you are from the West, but no one in the East will even compete against that team.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Pacers Fan said:


> Yep, I'm not sure Evan Turner is an NBA caliber player at this point. He's ok with the ball in his hands and has decent touch from mid-range, but he's almost worthless when he's not in isolation mode and he's the worst defender I've seen in Indiana in years. So, he could be mildly effective for Chicago in the 8-10 mpg that Rose isn't playing, but Thibs would sit his ass down immediately because he'd miss a rotation, get burned on a backdoor cut, miss a switch, or get his ankles broken. Ariza might be perfect, though, if Chicago can afford him.


I don't agree at all. Turner went from a no defense system designed to lose games that allowed him to take as many shots as he wanted, to going to a defense first team that held players accountable for mistakes, and he went from the first offensive option to like 8th option off the bench. 

If Turner had a full year including camp with us last year and that's how he played? Sure, I'd be ready to write him off. But this guy didn't get a fair shake, and to say he isn't even an NBA player is a complete over exaggeration. I saw times with us during the regular season where he hustled on D, passed the ball around well and looked like a great team player. I also saw times where he remembered he was in a contract year and started chucking up shots and trying to force things, which led to him getting benched. 

I'd be more than happy to have him back on the Pacers if the price was right.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Turner could not even get burn on a Pacers team desperate for offense. Ariza is meh, looking for too much money.


Are the Bulls not equally as starved for offense?

Bringing up a player not getting burn on a superior team doesn't really help prove your point.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Well, this is the same fan base that considers Noah and Taj untouchables, so I guess pleasing them would be fairly easy.



Name one person who considers Taj "untouchable."


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

The worst part of the Bulls missing Melo is that they're now going to committ money to Gasol, who isn't as good of a player as Boozer


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## KFitz14 (Jun 3, 2014)

thebizkit69u said:


> The Bulls din't even stand a chance against a trio of Lebron, Wade and Bosh. They stand NO CHANCE against a younger core of Irving and Love. Unbeatable? Sure if you are from the West, but no one in the East will even compete against that team.


Irving and Love bring none of the defense that Wade and Bosh (at least circa 2011 when they beat the Bulls in the ECF) do. Miami only averaged 89 points a game that series. They beat the Bulls with defense. We saw this year how they lost without that kind of defense.

If Rose is in the ballpark of his previous form, and Mirotic and a secondary ball-handler in the fold to help when LeBron has to lock down Rose, the Bulls will be a better offensive team than that 2010-2011 team that started Keith Bogans(!) the entire year. And they will be just as good on defense.

Maybe give that Cavs team a few years to build a team around those three with exceptions and veterans willing to come on the cheap like the Heat did and maybe they are "unbeatable". But not right off the bat, and the Bulls are still in a good position (although again...a lot of this is contingent upon Rose being at least close to an all-star caliber player again).

None of this matters anyway because I don't think LeBron is going back to Cleveland and am even less convinced they would be able to get Love in the massive bidding war that is bound to start when the trade deadline nears and the T-Wolves are still not in contention.



jnrjr79 said:


> Name one person who considers Taj "untouchable."


Thibs and Noah. There's two.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

KFitz14 said:


> Thibs and Noah. There's two.


Well, they are not members of the fanbase, and something tells me you don't have a source to back that up!


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Marcus13 said:


> The worst part of the Bulls missing Melo is that they're now going to committ money to Gasol, *who isn't as good of a player as Boozer*



:no:


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Are the Bulls not equally as starved for offense?
> 
> Bringing up a player not getting burn on a superior team doesn't really help prove your point.


It proves my point. Why would the bulls spend money on a guy who dint play well at all for a team who couldn't score. If Turner comes here for like a mill or two, fine. I just for see any interest in the guy from the Bulls.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

jnrjr79 said:


> Name one person who considers Taj "untouchable."


Unfortunately, I've bumped into far too many people who feel this way. I truly hope the bulls don't feel that way.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

KFitz14 said:


> Irving and Love bring none of the defense that Wade and Bosh (at least circa 2011 when they beat the Bulls in the ECF) do. Miami only averaged 89 points a game that series. They beat the Bulls with defense. We saw this year how they lost without that kind of defense.
> 
> If Rose is in the ballpark of his previous form, and Mirotic and a secondary ball-handler in the fold to help when LeBron has to lock down Rose, the Bulls will be a better offensive team than that 2010-2011 team that started Keith Bogans(!) the entire year. And they will be just as good on defense.
> 
> ...


Reports are already leaking out that Miller and Allen will come to Cleveland to play with LeBron. The Cavs as of today opened up a huge amount of cap money.... they wouldn't do that just for shirts shits and giggles. 

Mirotic is an unknown, we have been looking for a second ball handler for how many years now? 

Bulls need to make a splash. Even if it takes trading Noah.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> It proves my point. Why would the bulls spend money on a guy who dint play well at all for a team who couldn't score. If Turner comes here for like a mill or two, fine. I just for see any interest in the guy from the Bulls.


Hes a good offensive player in the right situation. Indiana put him on the deep bench and never gave him a shot.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> :no:


I'm not sure if youre agreeing or disagreeing lol


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Short of giving Melo a max contract, which may have been James Dolan's mandate, Phil Jackson did very little effort wise to keep Melo. Phil tried talking him into less money, opting into his 1-yr deal, trade his friend Tyson Chandler, and hired a rookie coach with zero input from him. I said a while ago that Phil probably doesn't care much if Melo leaves and still mostly believe that; in fact I think he will accommodate a trade if Melo wants it in a year or two. In spite of that, Melo is still going to re-sign. That should tell you how much Melo & his wife love New York and didn't ever want to leave. IMO, the only thing that would've forced him out is if Phil/Dolan refuse to give a max deal.

It is disappointing as Bulls fans, but if this tells you where Melo's priorities are, then I am not sure we should be crying too much. 

On some level, Lance is someone I've wanted all along. Or at least his skill set and talent. It's the attitude that scares me. Lance, Gasol, Mirotic, & McDermott would be a great off-season haul, provided Lance behaves himself and buys into Thibs' concept. 

Rose, Lance, McDermott, Taj, Noah, w/ Gasol, Mirotic, DJ/Hinrich, Jimmy off the bench...that could be a great team. Really solid mix of offensive, defense, passing, ballhanding, shooting. However I do think the front office will be scared off by Lance's behavior last year.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

R-Star said:


> Hes a good offensive player in the right situation. Indiana put him on the deep bench and never gave him a shot.


You do know Thibs is known to bury players on the bench as well right?


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

You know, one name that isn't being discussed much is Rodney Stuckey.

Stuckey could be a value pick up for half the price of Lance. He is actually pretty similar to Lance is alot of ways, mainly a worse defender, but offensively he may be just as good. Similar in terms of ballhandling & shot creation, same powerful 6'5 build, some court vision and slashing ability. Not a great shooter, but that is what Doug and Mirotic will be for. The nice thing he carries none of the attitude and behaviors risks of Lance.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

yodurk said:


> You know, one name that isn't being discussed much is Rodney Stuckey.
> 
> Stuckey could be a value pick up for half the price of Lance. He is actually pretty similar to Lance is alot of ways, mainly a worse defender, but offensively he may be just as good. Similar in terms of ballhandling & shot creation, same powerful 6'5 build, some court vision and slashing ability. Not a great shooter, but that is what Doug and Mirotic will be for. The nice thing he carries none of the attitude and behaviors risks of Lance.


Isn't the point of trying to sign a SG via free agency is to get a SG who can actually score? 

I don't know if a 28 year old with a poor fg% is going move the needle in a positive direction.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Unfortunately, I've bumped into far too many people who feel this way. I truly hope the bulls don't feel that way.



Me, too. Taj is a fine player, but he's not someone you screw up your chances to land Melo over.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Marcus13 said:


> I'm not sure if youre agreeing or disagreeing lol



Heh. Disagreeing. Present day Pau is light-years superior to present day Boozer.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> Isn't the point of trying to sign a SG via free agency is to get a SG who can actually score?
> 
> I don't know if a 28 year old with a poor fg% is going move the needle in a positive direction.


Stuckey is a good offensive player. He isn't a good shooter but everything else offensively he is pretty good at. Never averaged less than double digits aside from his rookie year. He'd probably cost no more than $5M per season, maybe less even, and fills the void of a SG who can help Rose w/ shot creation and ballhandling pressure. 

28 years old is fine, that is the prime of his career. Has never really been coached either, it is intriguing what Thibs could do for his career to improve his scoring efficiency and defense. The guy has talent, that has never been questioned with Stuckey. He's a good locker room guy and can either start or come off the bench, so for this type of deal there is not much risk as we have with Lance.

Keep in mind we are discussing plans B, C, and D here. There is a reason I never brought up Stuckey on here until now. We have to sign someone and he at least could present a fit that makes sense.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Isn't the point of trying to sign a SG via free agency is to get a SG who can actually score?
> 
> I don't know if a 28 year old with a poor fg% is going move the needle in a positive direction.


Agreed.

Derrick desperately needs a 2 guard who can shoot.

Rose + Bad shooter + Butler + Gibson + Noah is going to be horrific from a spacing perspective.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

yodurk said:


> Stuckey is a good offensive player. He isn't a good shooter but everything else offensively he is pretty good at. Never averaged less than double digits aside from his rookie year. He'd probably cost no more than $5M per season, maybe less even, and fills the void of a SG who can help Rose w/ shot creation and ballhandling pressure.
> 
> 28 years old is fine, that is the prime of his career. Has never really been coached either, it is intriguing what Thibs could do for his career to improve his scoring efficiency and defense. The guy has talent, that has never been questioned with Stuckey. He's a good locker room guy and can either start or come off the bench, so for this type of deal there is not much risk as we have with Lance.
> 
> Keep in mind we are discussing plans B, C, and D here. There is a reason I never brought up Stuckey on here until now. We have to sign someone and he at least could present a fit that makes sense.


The bulls just CANT settle for these types of moves. They have to go all out and take a risk. If no one wants to sign here, maybe it's time to pull off some creative trades. Why not trade for Rajon Rondo? He solves the second ball handler issue and it frees up rose to play the 2. 

Jeff Green can play multiple positions, may not be a star but he can score.

Make a move for Tyreke Evans, Jamal Crawford, Marshon Brooks... whatever.... just get something done! You can't fail again and just say, oh well we did our best.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> The bulls just CANT settle for these types of moves. They have to go all out and take a risk. If no one wants to sign here, maybe it's time to pull off some creative trades. Why not trade for Rajon Rondo? He solves the second ball handler issue and it frees up rose to play the 2.
> 
> Jeff Green can play multiple positions, may not be a star but he can score.
> 
> Make a move for Tyreke Evans, Jamal Crawford, Marshon Brooks... whatever.... just get something done! You can't fail again and just say, oh well we did our best.


Sounds suspiciously like moves for the sake of making moves. 

I was on record last year of liking Tyreke Evans. Ironically I do not understand how you can like Evans but not like Stuckey. They are similar players, Evans being marginally better but for double the cost.

Marshon Brooks is terrible, worse than Stuckey for sure.

IMO, the best risk we can take is Lance Stephenson, a guy who has loads of talent but is a bit of a headcase. Stuckey would be my cheaper, less talented but far more mentally stable version of Lance, if Lance gets overpaid somewhere else.

Unfortunately SG is the weakest position in the league and that is our biggest gap, our options are very limited.


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

Lance might be the way to go. Could blow up, but might just work out.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

yodurk said:


> Sounds suspiciously like moves for the sake of making moves.
> 
> I was on record last year of liking Tyreke Evans. Ironically I do not understand how you can like Evans but not like Stuckey. They are similar players, Evans being marginally better but for double the cost.


They aren't all that similar, one player is obviously the better player. Evans has only shot under 45% twice while Stuckey has NEVER shot over 43%. Evans is a better passer and rebounder as well. 

Evans is also a much more dynamic player who has just not been in ideal situations IMO. 



> Marshon Brooks is terrible, worse than Stuckey for sure.


I agree, but I would rather have Brooks at the minimum than pay anywhere near 5mill for Stuckey. 



> IMO, the best risk we can take is Lance Stephenson, a guy who has loads of talent but is a bit of a headcase. Stuckey would be my cheaper, less talented but far more mentally stable version of Lance, if Lance gets overpaid somewhere else.


I'm all for Lance, but for the right price.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Well as expected the first domino fell in place. LeBron goes to Cleveland, they will push hard for Love this season and/or next season. Bulls title window is shrinking, they have to win it this year before the window is fully closed.

Tick tock......


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Lebron made the right choice. For his legacy, for longer term winning, for likeability in general.

I am happy for the city of Cleveland, at least, they have been through alot of garbage the past 4 years, hell for the past 40 years in sports.

I think it's hilarious to break up their little trio down there in Miami, and that Wade is looking at no more titles and Pat Riley not getting what he wants for a change.

This is a tough situation for the Bulls. It doesn't look good when your star player might only have 5 years of prime ball remaining, let alone coming off 2 big knee injuries, and a division rival is stacked with all this talent. Pretty much all the Bulls can do is maintain a good culture and accumulate the best talent they can, likely win with depth. Historically it's not a great way to win a title but what else can you do here.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

The 3 BEST EC teams are in one division.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

The Bulls are trippinnnn.

It's between Knicks and Bulls but Melo's having a hard time leaving that much money on the table. The front office needs to take a lesson from Cleveland and Houston now and CLEAR SOME SPACE. Another 10 million on his contract probably convinces him to commit. Bye dunleavy, bye snell. Come on man


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Marcus13 said:


> The Bulls are trippinnnn.
> 
> It's between Knicks and Bulls but Melo's having a hard time leaving that much money on the table. The front office needs to take a lesson from Cleveland and Houston now and CLEAR SOME SPACE. Another 10 million on his contract probably convinces him to commit. Bye dunleavy, bye snell. Come on man


It was reported last week the Bulls talked through a number of scenarios with Melo. I took that to mean, he can come here for X amount of money to play with players A/B/C...or come play for Z amount of money to play with players E/F/G.

If push comes to shove I think the Bulls would trade almost anyone on the team to get Melo, but really that comes down to Melo's preference and how much money he demands.


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## Dissonance (Jul 21, 2004)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/487691852196642816


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Dissonance said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/487691852196642816


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

Why the hell is there a (negative) thread summarizing the results of the free agency period when the free agency period hasn't ended? Just in a hurry to bash?


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Well as expected the first domino fell in place. LeBron goes to Cleveland, they will push hard for Love this season and/or next season. Bulls title window is shrinking, they have to win it this year before the window is fully closed.
> 
> Tick tock......



LOLOLOLOL


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## taco_daddy (Jun 13, 2004)

transplant said:


> Why the hell is there a (negative) thread summarizing the results of the free agency period when the free agency period hasn't ended? Just in a hurry to bash?


Slowly but surely, and mainly due to his consistency, Bizkit is becoming my favorite poster. Rain, slow, or sunshine, he sticks to the exact same line. You gotta love a guy like him.



Dornado said:


>


You seem a little more receptive to the idea of Wade coming over than I would be. LOL.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

transplant said:


> Why the hell is there a (negative) thread summarizing the results of the free agency period when the free agency period hasn't ended? Just in a hurry to bash?



Yes. Yes, that is exactly it.


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

yodurk said:


> IMO, the best risk we can take is Lance Stephenson, a guy who has loads of talent but is a bit of a headcase. Stuckey would be my cheaper, less talented but far more mentally stable version of Lance, if Lance gets overpaid somewhere else.
> 
> Unfortunately SG is the weakest position in the league and that is our biggest gap, our options are very limited.


I would be okay with signing Stevenson, but IMO he's not a guy you break the bank for. But it looks like he's going for a big pay day. 

If we can't get him, I'd actually prefer to go dumpster diving and see if we can get a vet min guy for a year. I thought Goudelock would've done well if he was on the team last year. 

I think the important point to remember is that we don't *need* a second ball handler on most nights. (Assuming Derrick's back and newcomers contribute). Usually we can win with our usual formula. 

What we do need is for someone to put the ball on the floor and put up points on those occasional moments when the well has run dry, which come up a lot in the playoffs. 

Conceivably we could get by with a guy who plays as little as 10 minutes a game. There's a very large asymmetry between the importance of the second shot creator and the role he'd have to play on the team in order to have its effect.

So if we can't get a big-minute two-way player then I'd rather not try and fit a square peg into a round hole by overpaying someone who's average. 

Instead I'd rather target a more niche player that can be had on the cheap.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

With Gasol close to a deal, and Melo looking out, our current roster is looking like this, although let me caveat it's hard to know who the starters will be:

Rose, ??, Butler, Taj, Noah
DJ/Kirk, Snell, McDermott, Mirotic, Gasol

[one of DJ/Kirk + Mirotic are not on contract currently, but I think it's likely to happen even with a Gasol signing]

I still think Dunleavey will get moved to clear his expiring $3M, mostly due to our drafting of McDermott who is redundant and better in general. 

This team could be excellent, definitely right up there to make it out of the weak East if Rose is healthy, thanks to the Miami break up. HOWEVER there is a pretty big gap to fill at starting SG which could make or break those chances. 

That is why I can't judge the Gasol deal until we see the cost. Because whatever we pay him, that is less money to fill our glaring hole at SG, and as I said above that is such a weak position for the NBA in general, it will be hard to fill. We'd be looking at Lance for $10M+ per year, or Stuckey at ~$5M per year if we overpay Gasol. Not many alternatives out there...Evan Turner is one, yuck.


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## Fergus (Oct 2, 2002)

yodurk said:


> With Gasol close to a deal, and Melo looking out, our current roster is looking like this, although let me caveat it's hard to know who the starters will be:
> 
> Rose, ??, Butler, Taj, Noah
> DJ/Kirk, Snell, McDermott, Mirotic, Gasol
> ...


The best part about a Gasol signing is that it finally gives the Bulls a someone who can score in the paint. You may not consider this as big a need as a SG who can create his own shot, but it is still a valuable signing (depending on the cost).

Personally I am still hoping for Melo, but if he stays with the Knicks, signing Gasol is a good move.

I do not want Lance at $10 million. I do think it would be interesting seeing what the Bulls could do with Evan Turner, assuming he was signed for cheap. Evan Turner was very highly rated coming out of college and the Bulls have shown that they can get good production out of veterans other teams did not want (Augustine).


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Turner is intriguing on some level b/c there is some talent there, but you look at what he is today, and there just aren't many NBA level skills. His biggest strength is ability to handle the ball and pass at 6'7. Beyond that he isn't wildly athletic, bad shooter, and bad defender. He is decent on the break as a finisher. He just really needs to improve in one of those areas to be a desirable player and it's concerning b/c he turns 26 yrs old in October.

Another prospect I completely forgot about is Jordan Crawford. I'd put him right there in the Rodney Stuckey tier as "plan C" options to fill our SG hole. He is only 25 years old (whereas Stuckey is 28), slightly better shooter than Stuckey, similar to Stuckey with ballhandling skills & scoring volume. The drawback is he's smaller/thinner, whereas Stuckey is more like Lance with the strong build allowing him to power by guys and absorb contact at the rim. I'll take either one of these guys in our plan C, whichever is cheaper. Both can help off load Rose with the ballhandling duties, shot creation, and play alongside him. 

Edit: Found that Bulls are already looking at Jordan Crawford, and Warriors are open to S&T to facilitate if needed. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/source...wford-with-sign-and-trade-deal-035003396.html


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Team Melo tells Lakers and Bulls to move on. Hes staying with the Knicks.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

I feel we did all we could for Melo. Unfortunately all that 'winning is my priority' stuff was crap. Ugh.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

mvP to the Wee said:


> I feel we did all we could for Melo. Unfortunately all that 'winning is my priority' stuff was crap. Ugh.


You don't walk away from that kind of money. I bet you any amount of money that Robert Horry would trade in all his rings just to have made the type of money that Melo is making. 

I don't think the Bulls did all they could, I really feel like the Bulls balked on a sign and trade, I guess we will find out more as the weeks goes by.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

https://twitter.com/paugasol/status/488073294709809152

Bulls sign plan C and get Pau Gasol. 

Hopefully this is an MLE deal or something under 10 million. I highly doubt it since he turned down 11 million a year with the Lakers for 2 years. 

34 years old....


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> I don't think the Bulls did all they could, I really feel like the Bulls balked on a sign and trade, I guess we will find out more as the weeks goes by.


How do you come to that conclusion? I got more the feeling it was New York refusing the S&T in their effort to keep Melo. Bulls had every incentive to do S&T, whereas New York actually had a reason NOT to do S&T. 

Besides, the new CBA doesn't allow players to get an extra year in S&T's, like they did in previous CBA. Melo was stuck with a 4-year deal coming to Chicago no matter how the deal was done. New York is the only team who could give him that guaranteed 5th year.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> You don't walk away from that kind of money. I bet you any amount of money that Robert Horry would trade in all his rings just to have made the type of money that Melo is making.
> 
> I don't think the Bulls did all they could, I really feel like the Bulls balked on a sign and trade, I guess we will find out more as the weeks goes by.


Many, many reports have stated that the Knicks never wanted to engage in sign and trade talks with the Bulls. The first necessary step was getting Melo to commit and seeing New York's stance soften. Melo did not want to take that risk and therefore no sign and trade.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

mvP to the Wee said:


> I feel we did all we could for Melo. Unfortunately all that 'winning is my priority' stuff was crap. Ugh.


We did. I cant blame the front office on this one. The money was too much to let go. 

I am not worried about NY.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

mvP to the Wee said:


> Many, many reports have stated that the Knicks never wanted to engage in sign and trade talks with the Bulls. The first necessary step was getting Melo to commit and seeing New York's stance soften. Melo did not want to take that risk and therefore no sign and trade.


I'm not gonna say that the Bulls f'd up on Melo, I just get a word feeling that someone at the last minute backed out of something.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

truebluefan said:


> We did. I cant blame the front office on this one. The money was too much to let go.
> 
> I am not worried about NY.


Pretty much my feeling. Melo took the cash, which is perfectly appropriate, but he has likely sealed his fate as a non-contender.

The East is wide open now. I would think the Bulls may well be vying for the 1 seed.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

yodurk said:


> How do you come to that conclusion? I got more the feeling it was New York refusing the S&T in their effort to keep Melo. Bulls had every incentive to do S&T, whereas New York actually had a reason NOT to do S&T.
> 
> Besides, the new CBA doesn't allow players to get an extra year in S&T's, like they did in previous CBA. Melo was stuck with a 4-year deal coming to Chicago no matter how the deal was done. New York is the only team who could give him that guaranteed 5th year.


Now that's interesting. I didn't know it changed in the new CBA. So a player leaving his old team for a new team has no reason to want to do a S&T over signing in FA, except if the new team doesn't have the cap space to offer a max deal. He gets the same contract no matter what, unless he signs with his old team and stays there?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Bulls re-sign Kirk Hinrich and come to agreement with Nikola Mirotic on a 3 year 17 million dollar contract.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

DaBabyBullz said:


> Now that's interesting. I didn't know it changed in the new CBA. So a player leaving his old team for a new team has no reason to want to do a S&T over signing in FA, except if the new team doesn't have the cap space to offer a max deal. He gets the same contract no matter what, unless he signs with his old team and stays there?


Yep.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Looks like the Bulls are basically done. 

Gasol 3 years 22 million.
Mirotic 3 years 17 million. 
Kirk Hinrich 2 year 5.5 player option on second year. Horrible contact imo, can't believe he makes more than the minimum.

Can the MLE save this lack luster haul?


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Adding a big that averaged 17 and 10 with 1.5 blocks per game and the best young player in Europe is probably better than "lackluster". We could use another ball handler though... still a weakness that stands out to me.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Dornado said:


> Adding a big that averaged 17 and 10 with 1.5 blocks per game and the best young player in Europe is probably better than "lackluster". We could use another ball handler though... still a weakness that stands out to me.


A 34 year old big that has missed 55 games in the last 3 years. Hes past his prime and its not like his signing made any waves in Chicago. 

Mirotic is an unproven player. Who knows what he will bring.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Looks like the Bulls are basically done.
> 
> Gasol 3 years 22 million.
> Mirotic 3 years 17 million.
> ...



There is no regular MLE because the Bulls used cap space to sign Gasol and Mirotic. The Bulls only got the "room" MLE, and used that money on Hinrich (infuriatingly).

So, unless a last-minute taker for Boozer arrives and he's not amnestied, the Bulls are out of options beyond trades and minimum contracts.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> A 34 year old big that has missed 55 games in the last 3 years. Hes past his prime and its not like his signing made any waves in Chicago.
> 
> Mirotic is an unproven player. Who knows what he will bring.



I know negativity is your jam, but this is silly.

Gasol is 7-1, solving a size issue the Bulls saw last season. He will allow the more athletic Noah to guard a lot of 4s, while Pau can body up the big bodies. While you note he is "past his prime," he put up 17.4 PPG, 9.7 RPG, and 3.4 APG last year. Most people believe a lot of his missed games due to "vertigo" last year were simply the Lakers throwing in the towel and wanting to tank after the Kobe injury.

Gasol's game doesn't rely upon athleticism and there's no reason he cannot produce into his late thirties just like Duncan. And on $6.5 million? That's a hell of a risk worth taking.

Yes Mirotic is "unproven." So is everyone who hasn't played in the NBA. He's the best player not yet in the NBA and would've gone #4 in this year's draft. So, there's plenty of reason to be excited about his addition. 

This team added a shit-ton of scoring this offseason, which was desperately needed. After striking out on Melo (which, by the way, the routinely lionized Morey and Cuban also did), the Bulls pulled in about as good a haul as anyone in the league outside of Cleveland.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> A 34 year old big that has missed 55 games in the last 3 years. Hes past his prime and its not like his signing made any waves in Chicago.
> 
> Mirotic is an unproven player. Who knows what he will bring.


Gasol isn't a superstar at this point, but this isn't a video game... adding pieces that address weaknesses (offense, outside shooting via McDermott and Mirotic, dealing with competent 7 footers) is a good thing. I don't think that just because Lebron and D12 moved via free agency within the last 4-5 years that we can just take it for granted that the new standard for a Bulls offseason is landing a top 10 player in the NBA.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Let's not knock the Gasol signing just b/c we missed on Melo and haven't found a dynamic wing player yet. Just because it's less than we hoped for doesn't mean it is bad...take it for what it is.

Gasol's injuries the past two seasons are a little concerning but that is probably a big reason we got him at a $6.5M starting salary. This is significant b/c at that low of a cost we can justify him playing only 25 min/game. He needs that type of minutes restrictions to stay healthy and fresh for the playoffs, i.e., the Tim Duncan treatment.

And look, Gasol is so tall & skilled, he could probably stand in one place for every offensive possession and still be a threat. Big difference from Boozer. No doubt in my mind that he'll be a major boost to our frontcourt and the Bulls' offense in general.

That being said, the Bulls still do need to find a dynamic wing player at either SG or SF. Someone who can provide some more top heavy volume scoring and shot creation abilities. Either that or go all in with Rose starting at the 2 and go find a dynamic PG who can play alongside Rose. Whatever that may be, it's gotta be a trade at this point with no money left to spend.


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## KFitz14 (Jun 3, 2014)

If Rose is back to at least a borderline All-Star and they stay generally healthy, the Bulls will be the best team in the East.

-Heat obviously lost the best player in the league, and although they recovered well enough that they are still probably a middle-lower playoff seed.
-Pacers are a huge question mark with Lance still a free agent and their massive collapse last year.
-Raptors are good but they didn't do much to improve this offseason (Bruno will be good in a few years though), they'll probably still win the Atlantic.
-Wizards made a lateral (or worse) move with Pierce for Ariza, didn't add much else.
-Nets are a year older and lost Livingston and Pierce
-Hornets didn't add much besides their 2 first rounders, though they'll be better if those two can be solid contributors.
-Hawks added some good pieces and could surprise by winning the Southeast division with Horford healthy, but they still have a major hole on the wing.
-Cavs don't have enough shooting around LeBron to give him the space he needs and have a general lack of experience outside him and Varejao.

Actually it would be interesting to see which of those 9 doesn't make the playoffs because they all seem to be solid teams (relative to what the East looked like last year).


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Good post, KFitz. 

Random comment: Am I the only person who thinks Cleveland will be really damn good this season? Granted I don't think they will look all that great out of the gates. However I do think they will get better with every passing month and could end up peaking by the time playoffs roll around. Their offense will still flow through Lebron. Kyrie is a great #2 option who can shoot. Wiggins can defend on day 1 and will be lethal as a runner and finish on the inevitable fast break opportunities. Varejao is still solid. Waiters & Thompson have talent. Their drawback will likely be on the defensive end. Offensively they will be good given time to mesh. You can't ask for a better lynchpin to their offense.


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

yodurk said:


> Good post, KFitz.
> 
> Am I the only person who thinks Cleveland will be really damn good this season?


No. I think Cleveland is the favorite right now to come out of the east, but it's not a sure thing. 

Kyrie/Wiggins/Lebron on the perimeter is sick. 

I think their biggest difficulty will be adjusting to playing with Lebron. Lebron's brilliant but I think people underestimate how difficult it can be to adopt your game to play with someone who can do everything. 

He's such a gravitational force on the court that it's very easy to go away from what you do best and react to him. The Bulls had this issue all the time with Jordan, and last year's Heat fell into the same trap.

The fact that their best players are young and playing out their rookie contracts doesn't help. 

But the Cavs are a legit 60 win team, and more dangerous in the future. 

To be honest, I would have preferred that Lebron stay in Miami.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

yodurk said:


> Good post, KFitz.
> 
> Random comment: Am I the only person who thinks Cleveland will be really damn good this season? Granted I don't think they will look all that great out of the gates. However I do think they will get better with every passing month and could end up peaking by the time playoffs roll around. Their offense will still flow through Lebron. Kyrie is a great #2 option who can shoot. Wiggins can defend on day 1 and will be lethal as a runner and finish on the inevitable fast break opportunities. Varejao is still solid. Waiters & Thompson have talent. Their drawback will likely be on the defensive end. Offensively they will be good given time to mesh. You can't ask for a better lynchpin to their offense.


I do not think they will be the best in the East this season. I think Wiggins is going to need some time to develop, and their bigs are sub-par. But the LeBron-Kyrie one-two punch will be formidable, and they will be pretty damn good. I could see them anywhere in the 2-4 seeds.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

jnrjr79 said:


> I know negativity is your jam, but this is silly.


No, being honest and telling it like it is, is my bag.... Baby. Here is some negativity for you. The Bulls as is and if the East stays as is..... ARE IMO the favorites to win the East. Mostly due to the fact that Lebron left Miami, but still I think the Bulls are good enough ( A BIG IF! IF they are healthy) to win the East. Maybe not good enough to beat a WC team, but good enough to make it to the Finals. 



> Gasol is 7-1, solving a size issue the Bulls saw last season. He will allow the more athletic Noah to guard a lot of 4s, while Pau can body up the big bodies. While you note he is "past his prime," he put up 17.4 PPG, 9.7 RPG, and 3.4 APG last year. Most people believe a lot of his missed games due to "vertigo" last year were simply the Lakers throwing in the towel and wanting to tank after the Kobe injury.


If he stays healthy sure! But lets not act like Gasol is a SIGNIFICANT upgrade over Boozer. He's a better all around player, but we are STILL MISSING a legit #2 scoring option. We also lack a true second ballhandler. 

I choose to believe that Gasol missed time because of a medical issue and not just giving up on games. 



> Gasol's game doesn't rely upon athleticism and there's no reason he cannot produce into his late thirties just like Duncan. And on $6.5 million? That's a hell of a risk worth taking.


I said it was a good move if it was under under ten million. Its 7.5 Million, so its a good deal. I think you are just confusing yourself. I said these moves are lack luster, not bad. Well the Kirk Hinrich signing was HORRIBLE but I don't think the Bulls made bad moves, just not championship winning moves.. At least not yet. 



> Yes Mirotic is "unproven." So is everyone who hasn't played in the NBA. He's the best player not yet in the NBA and would've gone #4 in this year's draft. So, there's plenty of reason to be excited about his addition.


A lot of these unproven guys don't get 5.6 million off the bat either. The #1 overall pick in the draft makes what? 4.5 million?



> This team added a shit-ton of scoring this offseason, which was desperately needed. After striking out on Melo (which, by the way, the routinely lionized Morey and Cuban also did), the Bulls pulled in about as good a haul as anyone in the league outside of Cleveland.


What is your definition of a shit ton of scoring? What realistically will the Bulls get from McDermott and Mirotic? I find it funny that you are already expecting these guys to give us a "Shit ton" of scoring in only their first year in the NBA. Heck, what is the track record of first year players getting burn under Thibs?

Rose, Noah and Gasol all need to stay healthy in order for the Bulls to compete for a title. One player hasn't played in several seasons, and the other two have a history of season nagging injuries.. So sorry If I'm not soiling myself like the rest of you guys. 

Good moves, just not great moves. Thats all.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

> Am I the only person who thinks Cleveland will be really damn good this season?


They will be really damn good. They got the best player in the WORLD, who got crappy Cleveland teams into the 50+ win range almost every season he was playing. 

The only thing that will keep them from competing for a title right away would be their lack of perimeter 3 point shooting. Lebron James is devastating when surrounded by guys who can hit the 3. That being said, I think Ray Allen and Mike Miller have both expressed interest in playing in Cleveland.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> No, being honest and telling it like it is, is my bag.... Baby.


Haha. Fair enough. Though I think it is often negativity shrouded as honesty/non-homerism. But anyway, the board is better for it.



> Here is some negativity for you. The Bulls as is and if the East stays as is..... ARE IMO the favorites to win the East. Mostly due to the fact that Lebron left Miami, but still I think the Bulls are good enough ( A BIG IF! IF they are healthy) to win the East. Maybe not good enough to beat a WC team, but good enough to make it to the Finals.
> [/quote
> 
> Pretty much where I have them, too.
> ...


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

I'm no Pau fan, but he's light years better than that loser Boozer. His length alone is a huge addition. The Bulls also got pure scorers in McDermott and Mirotic. If the word on Thibs liking McDermott is accurate, I would expect him to get more minutes than most young guys do for him. Besides that, look at who plays the 3 now. There are minutes up for grabs there. 

This offseason isn't what I was hoping for, but we got a decent player on a decent (cheap if he stays healthy) contract, and got a good player in the draft and finally got Mirotic, plus we got rid of Boozer finally. This is a good offseason. Very good.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

KFitz14 said:


> If Rose is back to at least a borderline All-Star and they stay generally healthy, the Bulls will be the best team in the East.
> 
> -Heat obviously lost the best player in the league, and although they recovered well enough that they are still probably a middle-lower playoff seed.
> -Pacers are a huge question mark with Lance still a free agent and their massive collapse last year.
> ...


my guess is that the nets and the raptors will slide out ...possibly the hornets too.

the cavs as currently constructed look like a regular season juggernaut and playoff fodder because they lack outside shooting , but I suspect they will get love eventually because it makes too much sense for both parties to get it done.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

I think it was a solid offseason except for the Hinrich signing. Still a little puzzled by that one.


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## KFitz14 (Jun 3, 2014)

Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> I think it was a solid offseason except for the Hinrich signing. Still a little puzzled by that one.


Apparently other teams (Charlotte and Atlanta at least) were offering him 2 years/$8 million, so he gave the Bulls a discount to stay.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> I think it was a solid offseason except for the Hinrich signing. Still a little puzzled by that one.


Could've gone either way between Hinrich & DJ Augustin. DJ was exposed pretty badly in the playoffs by Wall, whereas Hinrich could at least slow down Wall a little. 

Hinrich can both play backup PG and SG alongside Derrick Rose, that versatility adds value over DJ.

I also think Thibodeau just flat out prefers Hinrich over DJ. You also wonder if DJ will eventually revert back to his invisible play that almost had him out of the league just 12 months ago.

Only argument for DJ is, he is a better shooter and younger. I wouldn't have complained to keep DJ but I can understand why they chose Hinrich.


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## DaBabyBullz (May 26, 2006)

Thibs likes defense. Hinrich plays good defense, and is a proven, veteran guard that can back up Rose (who can't stay healthy) and also play alongside him. To me it is a no brainer keeping him, especially when he wants to be in Chicago badly enough that he takes a big discount to stay.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

Puzzled was the wrong word.

I get that he is a Thibs guy, I just don't think he is very good.


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## rosenthall (Aug 1, 2002)

Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> I get that he is a Thibs guy, I just don't think he is very good.


The biggest benefit of Hinrich is that his offensive and defensive versatility allows you to play a wider variety of lineups that allow *other* players to do what they do best without creating weakness.

Specifically, Hinrich is a PG who can defend SG's, which will make it easier for Derrick to attack the basket with reckless abandon without Thibs having to worry about defensive mismatches. 

Bland as he is, Hinrich is a stable veteran who can still run a team and play good defense. There are enough teams that can find 20mpg for him to make this a good contract.

The player option indicates it was the Bulls, and not Kirk, that got the better end of the financials on this one. 

I"m guessing he wants to give it one more shot to see if this team can make it but be able to recoup his money with next year's cap increase in case things don't work out.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> Puzzled was the wrong word.
> 
> I get that he is a Thibs guy, I just don't think he is very good.


Think of it this way...the Bulls are trying to build a team that wins playoff games. To make the Finals, they will need to go through opposing teams that feature Kyrie Irving, John Wall, Kyle Lowry, Dwyane Wade, and Kemba Walker at guard. Would you rather have the 5'11, 175 lb DJ Augustin out there getting abused defensively, or the 6'3, 200 lb Kirk Hinrich who has always been lauded by coaches for his defensive abilities. Also keep in mind, if we picked DJ over Kirk, that means Derrick Rose has to exert far more energy chasing the above mentioned guys around in best of 7 playoffs games. IMO, far better to have a guy like Hinrich to play that role instead and let Derrick focus on scoring/running the team.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

yodurk said:


> Think of it this way...the Bulls are trying to build a team that wins playoff games. To make the Finals, they will need to go through opposing teams that feature Kyrie Irving, John Wall, Kyle Lowry, Dwyane Wade, and Kemba Walker at guard. Would you rather have the 5'11, 175 lb DJ Augustin out there getting abused defensively, or the 6'3, 200 lb Kirk Hinrich who has always been lauded by coaches for his defensive abilities. Also keep in mind, if we picked DJ over Kirk, that means Derrick Rose has to exert far more energy chasing the above mentioned guys around in best of 7 playoffs games. IMO, far better to have a guy like Hinrich to play that role instead and let Derrick focus on scoring/running the team.


I never said it had to be Augustin instead. And if Hinrich is playing major minutes in the playoffs against the opposing starters you are in trouble.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> I never said it had to be Augustin instead. And if Hinrich is playing major minutes in the playoffs against the opposing starters you are in trouble.


Agreed. 

Don't forget that you have some serious injury risks in guys like Hinrich, Gasol, Noah, Taj and Rose. Especially considering that rose has missed multiple seasons, I find the idea of having the super injury prone Hinrich as your primary backup, extremely puzzling.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

No one is expecting Hinrich to play major minutes. With Rose back he is looking at 25 min/game max, maybe only 20 min/game. I don't know how you watch how he played against Deron & Wall the past 2 years in the playoffs and think he can't give us something off the bench in those limited minutes.

If it's not DJ or Kirk you sign for that LLE salary slot, I am not sure who else you get for that money who gives us something those 2 guys don't. I am seeing guys like Jerryd Bayless, Luke Ridnour, etc. getting the LLE from other teams, can't say that is any better than what DJ or Kirk give us.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

yodurk said:


> No one is expecting Hinrich to play major minutes. With Rose back he is looking at 25 min/game max, maybe only 20 min/game. I don't know how you watch how he played against Deron & Wall the past 2 years in the playoffs and think he can't give us something off the bench in those limited minutes.
> 
> If it's not DJ or Kirk you sign for that LLE salary slot, I am not sure who else you get for that money who gives us something those 2 guys don't. I am seeing guys like Jerryd Bayless, Luke Ridnour, etc. getting the LLE from other teams, can't say that is any better than what DJ or Kirk give us.



Stuckey just signed with the Pacers on a 1-year minimum deal. He would have been an interesting look on the room exception.

I don't really have a problem with Hinrich as the backup. I just see him as more of a minimum contract guy. Yes, I understand that having an injury prone guy behind an injury prone guy is problematic, but frankly, like the last couple of years, if Rose goes down with a long-term injury, the team is screwed anyway. Everything continues to hinge upon his health.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

jnrjr79 said:


> Stuckey just signed with the Pacers on a 1-year minimum deal. He would have been an interesting look on the room exception.
> 
> I don't really have a problem with Hinrich as the backup. I just see him as more of a minimum contract guy. Yes, I understand that having an injury prone guy behind an injury prone guy is problematic, but frankly, like the last couple of years, if Rose goes down with a long-term injury, the team is screwed anyway. Everything continues to hinge upon his health.


That is a great deal for the Pacers.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

I was on record wanting Rodney Stuckey, but pretty sure he chose the Pacers b/c he is guaranteed to start there & play big minutes on a winning team now that Lance left, and will look to sign a bigger deal next summer. That is an opportunity the Bulls couldn't offer. Bottom line, I don't think Stuckey's deal was representative of his true market value, he is absorbing some risk for a year to cash in bigger after raising his stock in a better situation. He wasn't about to sign a 1-yr vet min contract for just anyone.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

So it's pretty much a dove deal, Kevin love will be traded to the Cavs for Wiggins and Bennett. Cleveland will go from one of the worst teams in the NBA to title favorite in just a couple of months.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

thebizkit69u said:


> So it's pretty much a dove deal, Kevin love will be traded to the Cavs for Wiggins and Bennett. Cleveland will go from one of the worst teams in the NBA to title favorite in just a couple of months.


Reminiscent of the Celtics 2008 turnaround, going from league's worst to title winner in 1 off-season. 

It's frustrating for Bulls fans. Just like in 2010 we constructed the best Bulls team since 1998, but are one upped by Lebron. Wonder if Melo is regretting his decision to pass on Chicago...

This Cleveland team was already going to be good even before the Love trade, but now they might have a historically good offensive team. Lebron, Love, & Irving is IMO a much more natural fit than Lebron, Wade, & Bosh. Kevin Love is pretty much the perfect half-court player to join Lebron...he has better range & passing skills than Bosh, more devastating in the pick & roll/pop game, and a terror on the offensive glass. Irving is a much better shooter than Wade and a more natural PG to help Lebron with playmaking duties. Then you have some really solid role players Lebron can already play with, I think they are the clear title favorites on Day 1.

Really I don't think we stand a good chance to beat them in a best-of-7 playoff series, though we do have a puncher's chance because Cleveland's DEFENSE could leave alot to be desired. History suggests you have to play both ends of the court at a near elite level (top 10 in both O & D ratings) to win a title. They may end up the best offense in the league but you have to wonder if they can crack a top 10 defense like the Bulls will be. Love & Irving are far worse defenders than Bosh & Wade, and David Blatt isn't exactly a proven coach with implementing a legit NBA defensive system. 

Should be interesting to see....


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## Fergus (Oct 2, 2002)

yodurk said:


> Could've gone either way between Hinrich & DJ Augustin. DJ was exposed pretty badly in the playoffs by Wall, whereas Hinrich could at least slow down Wall a little.
> 
> Hinrich can both play backup PG and SG alongside Derrick Rose, that versatility adds value over DJ.
> 
> ...


I agree that Hinrich was a pretty smart signing and in my opinion represents a better option as the #2 point guard than DJ.

Also, I think the Aaron Brooks signing can not be underestimated. I expect Aaron will be able to replace DJ pretty effectively.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Fergus said:


> I agree that Hinrich was a pretty smart signing and in my opinion represents a better option as the #2 point guard than DJ.
> 
> Also, I think the Aaron Brooks signing can not be underestimated. I expect Aaron will be able to replace DJ pretty effectively.


Yeah I wrote that before knowing we'd get Brooks. Without question I'd take Hinrich + Brooks over DJ + Brooks. The latter pairing is overly redundant, whereas the former pairing gives much better versatility and all around play, can even play together at times.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Derrick Rose / Kirk Hinrich / Aaron Brooks
Jimmy Butler / Tony Snell
Doug McDermott / Mike Dunleavy
Pau Gasol / Nikola Mirotic
Joakim Noah / Taj Gibson

If Derrick Rose is really back, I think the Bulls are better than the Cavs.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Damian Necronamous said:


> Derrick Rose / Kirk Hinrich / Aaron Brooks
> Jimmy Butler / Tony Snell
> Doug McDermott / Mike Dunleavy
> Pau Gasol / Nikola Mirotic
> ...


Those wing positions are still a potential pitfall for this team. That being said, they're still top 2 in the conference with Rose. If Rose goes down again, they will still very likely finish in the top 4 in the East... and probably even win a series.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Damian Necronamous said:


> Derrick Rose / Kirk Hinrich / Aaron Brooks
> Jimmy Butler / Tony Snell
> Doug McDermott / Mike Dunleavy
> Pau Gasol / Nikola Mirotic
> ...


It's a really nice team, definitely the most balanced team in the East, and one of the top 2-3 most balanced in the league. I think they'll be top 3-5 defense efficiency and top 5-7 offense efficiency. They will be fun to watch too, probably one of the top 2-3 passing teams in the league with improved outside shooting. 

However in a best of 7 playoff series, I would still pick Cleveland. IMO Cleveland will be one of those rare teams that can score whenever they need a bucket. It's an embarassment of offensive talent: shot creation, shooting, passing, pick & roll, pick & pop, offensive rebounding, post scoring...they have it all. They could be just mediocre of defense, but it's not like the Bulls aren't without flaws. We are lacking top-heavy scoring & shot creation from the wings which can be huge in the 4th quarters of a playoff series. And while I really like McBuckets and Mirotic, and both are way more seasoned than the average rookie, they are still rookies who will be learning the NBA in year 1. That's 2 of our best 4 scorers. 

IMO, Cleveland's defense will be a less glaring / more easily masked flaw than the Bulls' susceptibility to scoring droughts. However there is a puncher's chance for the Bulls if M&M step up sooner than expected and/or Cleveland's defensive issues prove too much with their current roster.


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## Fergus (Oct 2, 2002)

An important key to success in the playoffs is getting improvement from some of our younger players like Butler, Snell, Mirotic and McDermott. These players need to play well enough, that our veteran players get some rest during the season plus so that they can step up when needed in the playoffs.

For that to happen, the Bulls coaching staff has to let the younger players get playing time during the regular season. It will be interesting to see if the coaching staff can take the long term view, even if it means going through some struggles during the regular season.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Fergus said:


> An important key to success in the playoffs is getting improvement from some of our younger players like Butler, Snell, Mirotic and McDermott. These players need to play well enough, that our veteran players get some rest during the season plus so that they can step up when needed in the playoffs.
> 
> For that to happen, the Bulls coaching staff has to let the younger players get playing time during the regular season. It will be interesting to see if the coaching staff can take the long term view, even if it means going through some struggles during the regular season.


Great point. The staff's willingness to give those 4 big minutes in the regular season will go a long way to determining whether or not the Bulls will be championship contenders. They need to follow that San Antonio blueprint now that they have enough depth to do it.

Pau/DRose/Noah need to be at full strength going into the playoffs.


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