# What young guy would you ditch?



## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

Well it is very apparent that our young guys are starting to come into their own. Unfortunately we will not be able to keep them all. That will be hard, deciding who stays and who goes. If you could eliminate one of the young guys right now who would it be? I am not including Allen Ray and Leon Powe because at this point they are not significant enough to make a difference.


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## BackwoodsBum (Jul 2, 2003)

I voted Telfair, but not because I'm ready to give up on him just yet. I just think he has a higher trade value among the youngs guys than anyone other than Jefferson and Green and I'd hate to lose either of them at this point and I think that eventually Rondo will be the starting PG anyway so losing Telfair wouldn't be that big a loss.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Perkins. Really irritating me lately.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

Sadly, if I had to pick one, it'd be Telfair or Perkins.


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## Attila (Jul 23, 2003)

Who in their right mind can still argue that trading the 7th pick in last year's draft for Telfair was a good idea? I know that Ainge wants a run and gun team, but we simply don't have the players for that type of system.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

I dont even need to guess to know that whiterhino picked West.

Telfair and Perkins


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

we all know that ainge will not let go of telfair any time soon because that would be admitting that it was dumb to trade the #7 for him...

o/t dwest superstar what is the point of your "celtics enthusiast" sig?? those numbers are pretty damn close to his career numbers thus far


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## blh5387 (Apr 6, 2006)

I selected the Perk-meister. He has not been played inspiring ball this year. He has a very limited offensive game, he's not that great on defense, and he's just kind of a waste of space at some times. You look at the guy and he looks like he would be a good center, but he's not.


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## mrsister (Sep 9, 2002)

I picked Perkins. It was a tough call because he has shown some flashes (the 19 rebound performance last season being one of them), but he's still too inconsistent. He's actually averaging the same number of minutes per game as last season, but he's averaging fewer points and rebounds. I know he's been hurt and Jefferson and Gomes are probably cutting into his averages, but I still expected more out of him. It would be tough to give him up, simply because guys his size are hard to come by, but he needs to be a more solid contributor. 

Telfair is kind of in the same boat - not producing what he should - so he would've been my next choice. However, I disagree with Attila that we can't have a run and gun system with the guys we have. I think we can. We have youth and athleticism on our side. Tony and Gerald could get so many fast break baskets if they ran the floor and someone got them the ball. Telfair and Rondo are certainly fast enough to push the ball up the floor. We just need to be smarter and more consistent. I think the Suns game proved we can play at a fast pace. We just don't do it often enough. I'm actually more disappointed in the way we defend the fast break. With all the speed we have, I don't know why guys don't get back on defense quicker.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

whoever picked gomes and allen better be joking


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

I really don't know. I like all of them, but it's like rooting for your little brother. They're not very good and I don't think anyone has really seperate themselves from the rest of the pack. I mean, we still have some time to judge them before their contracts call for a decision, but I think if someone approached the Celtics in a trade, requesting a young player, I think Al Jefferson is the only one that would make me hesitate before making the decision.

Also, I have no opinion on Rondo at this point. I missed the only game in which he played a decent amount of minutes. Even so, I think I've learned my lesson on denouncing guards after their rookie season. 

See, I think all of them, save for maybe Al and Gerald, will be role players and they would be nice to have, but it's going to be impossible to keep even two thirds of them. Strictly based on current and realistic future production, I would say Perkins, Telfair, and Delonte, but in the modern NBA, money must be accounted for. Noting that Delonte and Telfair will command the most money within in the next two seasons, I think I would "ditch" them, as Perkins has already been extended for cheap and is definitely a serviceable big.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Contracts aside, I would, as much as I hate to say it, right now "ditch" Kendrick Perkins.

The guy has been a favorite of mine since the C's drafted him, but he's looking pretty bad right now.

I did, however, like him at the begining of the season, I believe he was in the top 15 in blocked shots before getting injured. He's had a couple of games with 4+ blocks.

With contracts in play, there's no way I would get rid of Perkins. The guy is paid peanuts for the next five years.

Three weeks ago, I would have voted Tony Allen without any hesitation, now he looks like the best player the Celtics have drafted since Paul Pierce.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

DWest Superstar said:


> I dont even need to guess to know that whiterhino picked West.
> 
> Telfair and Perkins


Actually you are wrong:biggrin: I picked Sebastien. I don't hate Delonte, I just don't think he's a starter or a PG but he's a nice guy to have coming off the bench. I'm just not all that impressed with Telfair yet and I think Rondo will eventually be better so I'd get rid of Telfair at this point.
As for those picking Perk.....he's been injured and is not at 100% at this point, don't forget that. He's not Al or Gerald but he's good when he's not coming back from an injury and he's tough...which is something this team really lacks. 
Prem is right, we cannot keep all these guys....it is simply not going to be possible. I love Al right now talk about making a great run..he's on fire and if he shows he can do it consistently he's a keeper. Gerald and Tony have looked really good lately too so I mean those may be the 3 we keep. No idea right now but some of those guys will be gone in a year or two. Telfair could be expensive and I don't think he's worth it. Delonte could also demand a good amount and although he's a nice bench guy he's not worth big money. Perk is signed and cheap. Gomes may demand some bucks and if Al is locked before him and Perk already is do we pay him? I don't know, some big decisions coming up.


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## Attila (Jul 23, 2003)

mrsister said:


> I disagree with Attila that we can't have a run and gun system with the guys we have. I think we can. We have youth and athleticism on our side. Tony and Gerald could get so many fast break baskets if they ran the floor and someone got them the ball. Telfair and Rondo are certainly fast enough to push the ball up the floor. We just need to be smarter and more consistent. I think the Suns game proved we can play at a fast pace. We just don't do it often enough. I'm actually more disappointed in the way we defend the fast break. With all the speed we have, I don't know why guys don't get back on defense quicker.


 I don't really see Pierce being a run and gun type of guy, although I'm sure he'd be able to fit in such a system with the right group of guys. Wally gets major minutes, and he can't run at all. The same goes for Perkins. I'm not so sure Al fits the run and gun mold either.

I think you need to build your style around your players and not the other way around.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

This is a good - and tough - question. Not too long ago for many people Tony Allen would have been first on this list. And at points Big Al for others would have been up there too. Using all factors - contacts, etc - I'd have to go with West. My other choice would have been Perks but size is hard to find - and I still think with some conditioning Perks can be a solid NBA center. As much as I like West I think he'll demand more money than he's worth - and more easily rplaced than Perks.

Telfair I still have hopes for.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Attila said:


> Who in their right mind can still argue that trading the 7th pick in last year's draft for Telfair was a good idea? I know that Ainge wants a run and gun team, but we simply don't have the players for that type of system.


Telfair was a throw-in. The trade of the #7 pick was a vain attempt to correct the horrendous Walker trade to Dallas (and as Ainge has publicly called the trade a mistake I'm not listening to any debate on this). The owners wouldn't let Ainge trade for a vet if Raef was still on the books in the 2004 RFA season (2008-09). So Ainge made the best deal he could to get Raef off the books so that he could take a shot at a vet star to put alongside Pierce. Unfortunately no one was interested in dealing with Boston at the time, so nothing came of it. Eventually either Telfair or Rondo will get shipped, because someone else will be brought in to start at the 1 and they won't need both guys as backups.


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

When you consider that Ainge had no choice but to rectify the LaFrentz trade, Telfair isn't that bad of a booby prize. I don't know what other team would've taken Raef + pick and given us anything even serviceable.

Rondo might go, too. He really needs to learn how to shoot, otherwise his future in this league isn't looking all that promising.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

where are all the people that 2 months ago said perk was worth 10 mill a year??? i know there is more than a few of you out there why isnt anyone debating these statements??? i love how c's fans turn on players after like 10 games...first it was perk is soooooo underpaid he deserved a much better contract now its off with his head!...then it was tony allen is garbage and green should get his minutes now its a lovefest for tony...whats goin on?!?! lol


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

uh oh perk had a good game time for ppl to pick someone else:biggrin:


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## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

I remember saying it would be absurd to give Perkins that kind of dough.


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

Attila said:


> I don't really see Pierce being a run and gun type of guy, although I'm sure he'd be able to fit in such a system with the right group of guys. Wally gets major minutes, and he can't run at all. The same goes for Perkins. I'm not so sure Al fits the run and gun mold either.
> 
> I think you need to build your style around your players and not the other way around.


Actually Perkins runs well for such a big guy and is very good at making the outlet pass to get the run started. You have to have a big defensive presence to get the run started.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

whiterhino said:


> Actually Perkins runs well for such a big guy and is very good at making the outlet pass to get the run started. You have to have a big defensive presence to get the run started.


And you can't run if you don't rebound. Perk rebounds and makes outlet passes. If you're going to run, a guy like Perk is good down low.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

whiterhino said:


> Actually Perkins runs well for such a big guy and is very good at making the outlet pass to get the run started. You have to have a big defensive presence to get the run started.


Perkins is the slowest center this side of Shaq. He is painfully slow. This is why he commits so many fouls on the defensive end, he's too slow to the play after a shooter has sprung free from Telfair, West, or Szczerbiak. This is also why the interior defense got better after Perkins's injury. For all of his faults, Jefferson can at least be timed by stopwatch rather than sundial, and even if he tries to take too many charges, is quick enough to be in position to do it.


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## beantown (Sep 2, 2005)

trading pierce for 50 cents on the dollar and letting the kids weve stockpiled play seems the prudent thing...call me crazy.


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## beantown (Sep 2, 2005)

doc or telfair id love to 86; theyre really unimpressive, strikingly so even. they blow goat. get the net,


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

ehmunro said:


> Perkins is the slowest center this side of Shaq. He is painfully slow. This is why he commits so many fouls on the defensive end, he's too slow to the play after a shooter has sprung free from Telfair, West, or Szczerbiak. This is also why the interior defense got better after Perkins's injury. For all of his faults, Jefferson can at least be timed by stopwatch rather than sundial, and even if he tries to take too many charges, is quick enough to be in position to do it.


We'll agree to disagree then, Perk starts the run for us a lot when he's in the game by seeing the open man and making the outlet pass....he's very good at it and has good court vision and awareness for a young big man


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## knicksfan (Jan 4, 2003)

The only three reasons I follow the Celts are Gomes Telfair and Rondo. I love Green's potential, and Delonte's style of play too. Al Jefferson is just Al Jefferson, he's gonna be nice. Perkins is a legitimate center who can block shots (FROM WHAT I HEARD) and just play good basketball. Isn't Tony Allen a cancer because he keeps getting in trouble with the law? I don't know him personally, so I won't pretend to but out of those guys if I was forced to get rid of one it would be him. Pierce Gomes Green Wally Delonte is enough for the 2-3 spots I think. Anyone who votes Gomes has gotta be joking.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

knicksfan said:


> The only three reasons I follow the Celts are Gomes Telfair and Rondo. I love Green's potential, and Delonte's style of play too. Al Jefferson is just Al Jefferson, he's gonna be nice. Perkins is a legitimate center who can block shots (FROM WHAT I HEARD) and just play good basketball. *Isn't Tony Allen a cancer because he keeps getting in trouble with the law? I don't know him personally, so I won't pretend to but out of those guys if I was forced to get rid of one it would be him. Pierce Gomes Green Wally Delonte is enough for the 2-3 spots I think.* Anyone who votes Gomes has gotta be joking.


Some corrections:

TA has been our best player of late. Sadly he went down with an ijury that could put him out for at least the season.

Wally is far from a young guy.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

It's a given that TA is out for the season. I'm concerned about when he'll be back next year.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

knicksfan said:


> The only three reasons I follow the Celts are Gomes Telfair and Rondo. I love Green's potential, and Delonte's style of play too. Al Jefferson is just Al Jefferson, he's gonna be nice. *Perkins is a legitimate center who can block shots (FROM WHAT I HEARD) and just play good basketball.* Isn't Tony Allen a cancer because he keeps getting in trouble with the law? I don't know him personally, so I won't pretend to but out of those guys if I was forced to get rid of one it would be him. Pierce Gomes Green Wally Delonte is enough for the 2-3 spots I think. Anyone who votes Gomes has gotta be joking.


Perk is very trigger happy on offense (for someone of his skill level) and bites on every single shot fake. I want to can Perk ASAP


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

TheBigDonut said:


> Perk is very trigger happy on offense (for someone of his skill level) and bites on every single shot fake. I want to can Perk ASAP


Yeah, and you forgot a little detail that says "he's our best interior defender."


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## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

aquaitious said:


> Yeah, and you forgot a little detail that says "he's our best interior defender."



That is true, heck he's scary no one wants to go in on him and if they do he's a very good shot blocker.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Perkins is not Shaq. He is not that intimidating. And I'm willing to bet that a lot of the veteran players don't know who he is. He rotates much too slowly for him to be an intimidating defensive presence.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Premier said:


> Perkins is not Shaq. He is not that intimidating. And I'm willing to bet that a lot of the veteran players don't know who he is. He rotates much too slowly for him to be an intimidating defensive presence.


This also has a lot to due with the perimeter defenders not doing their job.

I know it's just an excuse, but one on one, in the post, I'd take Perkins over anyone on the Celtics.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

aquaitious said:


> This also has a lot to due with the perimeter defenders not doing their job.
> 
> I know it's just an excuse, but one on one, in the post, I'd take Perkins over anyone on the Celtics.


Talk about damning with faint praise.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

aquaitious said:


> I know it's just an excuse, but one on one, in the post, I'd take Perkins over anyone on the Celtics.



"over anyone on the celtics" being the key phrase...which basically is you saying you would take him over a hurt theo ratliff, bust-owokandi, a 6'8 leon powe and a skinny "big" al...id take perk too, but thats really not saying much


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

ehmunro said:


> Talk about damning with faint praise.





#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> "over anyone on the celtics" being the key phrase...which basically is you saying you would take him over a hurt theo ratliff, bust-owokandi, a 6'8 leon powe and a skinny "big" al...id take perk too, but thats really not saying much



Well I was defending my point of where I said he's "our best interior defender.

I'd even go and say he's our best defensive center in the past 15 years or so...


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Tony Battie.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Premier said:


> Tony Battie.


Tony Battie wasn't a good defender, he just played well within Jim O'Brien's system (and had better footwork/easier rotations). Heck every player did, Walter and Williams were considered "shut down" defenders even though one could only sign and the other had one eye and one knee.

The O'Brien/Harter defense was very useful.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

...how quickly we forget...


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

agoo101284 said:


> ...how quickly we forget...


The picture doesn't work for me.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

Its Dwayne Schintzius.


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