# Huge Kobe Update Regarding Bulls



## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

From RealGM. I've posted info from this guy, JohnGaltLSD in the past, he isn't an insider but has connections. He is legit.



JohnGaltLSD said:


> Get your #24 Bulls Jerseys fellas





JohnGaltLSD said:


> Well I'm not an insider, but the Bulls and Lakers have been quietly talking about a deal (think how Boston and Minn came out of nowhere one day). Kobe is insistent that he goes to Chicago. Jerry Buss and Mitch told Kobe t they'd either get him some help or send Kobe to Chicago (if there was a reasonable return) if he would just shut up. Kobe went to Chicago personally about a month ago to get the ball rolling on this.
> 
> The Lakers are unwilling to part with both Lamar and Andrew Bynum for JO. Getting JO would appease Kobe, but not at the price of Lamar Odom. So there is no real reason to pull the trigger for injury prone JO if you're going to be worse for it (and Kobe will still want out). We all know what happened with KG.
> 
> ...


Remember, there was a short snippet in a paper about a month ago about Kobe being in Chicago.

My Reaction:
OMG! 

I want Kobe on the Bulls big time. I think everyone knows this. But, I'm not sure I do it at the price of Tyrus, Noah, and Ben. My issue is not with Gordon. I'll gladly pack his bags. But its losing BOTH Tyrus and Noah. 

Now, I think today, we could win the East with a lineup of Kirk-Kobe-Deng-Smith/Noce-Wallace, but that bench is mighty thin. Its not easy to add quality guys through the MLE. On top of that, JR better be ready to pay the Tax if we want to be an annual contender while Kobe is here. 

I'd ideally love to get Kobe for a package of Gordon, Thabo, Noah or Tyrus (I'd keep Tyrus), and a 1st rounder. 

I'm leaning toward No at the moment because logically I think we lose a lot of front court depth, but my heart wants to say F' that and bring in the Black Mamba. Final Verdict: Take out Tyrus or Noah and put in Thabo, and it's a done deal.


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## BlueHat (Dec 19, 2003)

theanimal23 said:


> I'd ideally love to get Kobe for a package of Gordon, Thabo, Noah or Tyrus (I'd keep Tyrus), and a 1st rounder.


If I were the Bulls, that's my (semi)realistic trade of choice too. I'm pretty sure the Lakers would need to get Tyrus, not Noah though.

Bulls:
Hinrich-Duhon
Kobe-FA?
Deng-Nocioni
Joe Smith-Noah-Nocioni
Ben Wallace-Noah-Gray


I think the Bulls should try to make this happen.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

If we can keep Noah, this would be ideal. Don't know if that will happen. Maybe they can send back a big in return? Don't know. 

It's amazing that the Chicago media has kept this quiet!


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

BlueHat said:


> If I were the Bulls, that's my (semi)realistic trade of choice too. I'm pretty sure the Lakers would need to get Tyrus, not Noah though.
> 
> Bulls:
> Hinrich-Duhon
> ...


Yeah, I hear ya. I'd like to keep Tyrus, but I'd settle with Noah too. 

Is it bad that I wouldn't do this deal because I don't want to lose both Tyrus and Noah? That front court would be old and blah without either one. 

The rotation you listed looks great. I think thats a championship caliber team.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

truebluefan said:


> If we can keep Noah, this would be ideal. Don't know if that will happen. Maybe they can send back a big in return? Don't know.
> 
> It's amazing that the Chicago media has kept this quiet!


Turiaf? If we could get him and Kobe, I'd do the deal if it sent away our young bigs. I would really hate losing them both, but I think you'd have to do the deal then.

Smith/Noce
Wallace/Turiaf

Not spectacular but solid.

It was reported about a month ago, in a one-line snipet in some paper that Kobe was in Chicago. I think they mentioned him at some club. But nothing else was further mentioned. It makes sense.

I don't see a deal happening Dec 15th due to salary reasons. I truly hope by then, the Lakers piss off Kobe even more so we could keep either Tyrus or Noah and put in Thabo and even a 1st if needed.

PJ was last looking for the full MLE from Boston. Maybe he'd like a 1 year rental at 10 million.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

It's not happening.


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

Kobe is due $19M, so we have to send them close to that. 
Gordon, Thomas, and Safo are only $10M. Nocioni may have to be included...other words, if anything happens, it is December. I don't think the Lakers want Wallace...and I don't think Kobe and the Bulls want Wallace to be part of the deal. They are in the WIN NOW mode.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

1. Kobe would need to waive his trade kicker
2. I think we need to be within 25% of his salary. Then we would need approximately $14.6-14.7ish million.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

Guys I just got off the phone with Phil Jackson, he says the the deal is as good as done. Go out and buy those Kobe jerseys!! :clap2:


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

liekomgj4ck said:


> Guys I just got off the phone with Phil Jackson, he says the the deal is as good as done. Go out and buy those Kobe jerseys!! :clap2:


I also talked with Skiles the other day and he seemed adamant on re-signing P.J. Brown...


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I'd give up Luol Deng for Kobe Bryant. Luol Deng has become so ridiculously overrated recently. I'd take advantage of that if Lakers management buys into it and do a Deng/Kobe swap.

Luol Deng, Chris Duhon, and PJ Brown for Kobe Bryant. 

PG- Kirk Hinrich/JamesOff Curry
SG-Ben Gordon/Thabo Sefolosha
SF-Kobe Bryant/Andres Nocioni
PF-Tyrus Thomas/Joe Smith
C- Ben Wallace/Joakim Noah

You give up Noah if you have to. 

But nothing is getting done this summer without PJ Brown on board.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

Mebarak said:


> I'd give up Luol Deng for Kobe Bryant. Luol Deng has become so ridiculously overrated recently. I'd take advantage of that if Lakers management buys into it and do a Deng/Kobe swap.
> 
> Luol Deng, Chris Duhon, and PJ Brown for Kobe Bryant.
> 
> ...


That would be the smallest starting line-up compared to any other team.


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

Meh, I'll believe it when I see it.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

i dont know, but i sure dont like the idea


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## Sith (Oct 20, 2003)

Kobe is not getting traded. but if he's avaiable, we gonna make the move to get him.

gordon
tyrus
noc
smith
2 no.1 picks are not too much to pay for someone like KB.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

I'm actually a little excited. This is something I couldn't say about any of the KG or Gasol rumors over the last couple of years. I could see Kobe wanting in at Chicago, and be willing to take the financial hit to make it possible. He's a winner in a way that KG and Gasol aren't. We know this. How much do you want to bet he would work well with Skiles? That fierce compulsion to win -- two peas in a pod. 

14.7 million is not a deal breaker. The Bulls could work that in any number of ways. And if Kobe demands a trade, and is willing to take the hit, a trade is going to happen. 

If you're the Lakers you don't give up your star until you absolutely have to. You hold on to him until that first game of preseason when it becomes certain to a finality that Kobe won't play for your team. No possibility of a change of heart. This deal would not, and will not, happen until the beginning of the fall. 

Snap. Let's see if KC and the rest begin to start asking questions.


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## laso (Jul 24, 2002)

You give up either Tyrus of Noah, but not both. If the Lakers get Gordon, Tyrus, Thabo and PJ for example, well they got a heck of a lot more than Minny did for KG IMHO.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

All I've got to say is:

Trade Kobe sooner rather than later 
By Sean Deveney - SportingNews



The trade of Kevin Garnett to the Celtics has been the most important transaction of this NBA summer, but, for the most part, it sounds like a one-way deal. The storyline is simple: Garnett going to the Celtics is supposed to resuscitate Boston's once-proud franchise and help balance the yawning divide between the Eastern and Western Conferences. 

But what about the franchise Garnett just left? What about the now-downtrodden Timberwolves? General manager Kevin McHale has made a string of bad transactions over the past decade and this sure looks like yet another one. 

McHale, though, is not alone when it comes to being low-balled in a deal involving a star player. That's because he waited too long to make the deal happen, and his player's trade value dropped because of it. You just can't do that. This lesson has been demonstrated over and over in the NBA, but still, general managers just don't seem to be paying attention. 

It'll be interesting to see whether the Lakers are paying attention. What happened with Garnett doesn't seem to have anything to do with what L.A. is going through with the very unhappy Kobe Bryant. But it should. 

Teams hate giving up their marquee-fillers, and there's no marquee man who has quite the stature of Bryant. But the Lakers, like all teams, fear the repercussions from season-ticket holders and sponsors that come with moving along a star. Every team prefers the safety of trotting out its big-name player, even if his tenure has gone stale, rather than the risk of making a deal when the dealing's good. Given their ticket and sponsorship prices, the Lakers would face a wave of negative repercussions in a post-Kobe-trade season. They know it. That's why they're not even considering Bryant deals at this point. 

But if a trade becomes inevitable, as it did in Garnett's case, history shows it's better to make the deal early, before the rest of the league knows you're desperate. I know, I know -- you'd hate to see a team capitulate to a player who is under contract and ought to fulfill that contract. Bryant is a hardheaded guy, though. If he doesn't come off his trade demand, he could make life miserable for his team and as he does, his trade value will diminish. If the Lakers know he is going to stick to his demand, they'd be wise to quietly explore trade possibilities now, before it's too late. 

*Just look at the Timberwolves. McHale would sure be looking good now if he had accepted the reported offer, made before the 2006 draft, of Luol Deng, Tyson Chandler (plus some players to fill out the cap differential) and the No. 2 overall pick from the Bulls for Garnett. Such a trade could have yielded LaMarcus Aldridge, giving the Timberwolves an impressive young duo in the middle, with Deng and point guard Randy Foye. Alas, Chandler is posting double-doubles in New Orleans now, while Deng blossomed into a nearly 20-point-per-game scorer last year. The Bulls have since yanked him out of all trade talks. 

By the time McHale was ready to deal Garnett, the best he could do was the package from the Celtics, of Al Jefferson, a couple of decent young prospects -- Ryan Gomes and Gerald Green -- plus Sebastian Telfair, two draft picks and the cap space offered by Theo Ratliff's contract. Compare that to the trifecta the Bulls deal might have brought. 

Last year's trade of Allen Iverson to Denver is another prime example of the danger of holding onto a star too long. The Sixers-Nuggets deal was actually the resurrection of a trade that nearly happened in the summer of 2005, when the Nuggets were prepared to ship a package of Andre Miller, Nene and draft picks to Philadelphia for Iverson. But the Sixers balked, and kept Iverson. They paid the price. By last winter, the Sixers-Iverson relationship publicly deteriorated, to the point that Iverson was not even playing. The Nuggets had a much stronger trading position, and pulled Nene out of the deal. Instead, the Sixers got Miller, Joe Smith and draft picks. Now, which guy would better help the rebuilding Sixers? Nene or Smith? 

In 2004, the Vince Carter situation deteriorated into a debacle in Toronto. Despite the fact that Carter publicly asked for a trade in September, the Raptors held onto him. One rumored deal would have netted Mike Miller and Bonzi Wells from Memphis. In another possibility, the Raptors overloaded a deal with Portland for Shareef Abdur-Rahim, trying to unload bad contracts, until the Blazers finally said, "Forget it." Toronto passed on P.J. Brown and draft picks from the Hornets -- a light offer, but one that would have given Chris Bosh the help he desperately needed. 

In the end, the Raptors allowed Carter's value to decline so far that the only deal they could muster was this package from the Nets: Eric Williams, Aaron Williams and Alonzo Mourning, along with two draft picks. Mourning refused to play in Toronto. It was one of the most disastrous trades in NBA history. 

Think about it. What did the Hornets get for Baron Davis? Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis. What did the Magic get for Tracy McGrady? Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley. There seem to be endless examples of what happens when a team waits too long to trade its star player. The result is always the same: They get low-balled.* 

We saw that with Garnett this summer. If you're a Lakers fan, you have to wonder: Are we going to see it again with Bryant? 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...g=tradekobesoonerrathertha&prov=tsn&type=lgns

If Pax does trade for Kobe (damn well hope not), he better not give up the farm for him. All these other superstar trades weren't of equal value at all.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Ap


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## King Joseus (May 26, 2003)

bullybullz said:


> All I've got to say is:
> 
> Trade Kobe sooner rather than later
> By Sean Deveney - SportingNews
> ...


Can you explain to me why it is that you are so against adding Kobe to this team? It can't be his basketball ability, can it?


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

JohnGaltLSD makes a lot of sense. 

Kobe was in Chicago a short while ago and there was speculation as to why... maybe now we know? 

The Lakers telling him they will try to get help (J O'Neal) or deal him to Chicago if he just "shuts up" has me rofl. That's what I actually think is happening. Kobe has been holding up his end of the bargain so far. 

I would NOT include BOTH Tyrus & Noah. 

Ben Wallace, Joe Smith & Nocioni as our top 3 bigs just isn't talented enough to win it all, and we'd definitely be lacking size/bulk in that area. We'd need to hope guys like Mutombo and Skinner would come here for cheap, and even then they are just stop-gaps... we'd still need younger bigs for the future, and I'm not talking Gray/Big Marty types.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Unless the Lakers are willing to trade for Ben Wallace (doubtful, and Kirk is hard to trade because he's BYC), we would need to include a lot of players to make a successful deal this summer.

This trade works on realgm, although we wouldn't be able to execute it until August 27:

Ben Gordon
Tyrus Thomas
Chris Duhon
Viktor Khryapa
Adrian Griffin
Aaron Gray

for

Kobe Bryant


So our team would look something like this:

Hinrich, Thabo
Kobe, JamesOn
Deng, Nocioni
Smith, (Nocioni, Noah)
Wallace, Noah

This would leave us with only nine players on our roster. Obviously, even just to obey league rules, we'd have to sign a few other players.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

If the Lakers would prefer Kirk Hinrich to Ben Gordon this also works:

This Trade Succeeded! Go back to adjust your trade or start over.
Chicago Bulls

Incoming Players
Kobe Bryant

Outgoing Players: Tyrus Thomas, Chris Duhon, Thabo Sefolosha, Adrian Griffin, Viktor Khryapa, Kirk Hinrich
Los Angeles Lakers

This leaves the Bulls without a point guard, but you do it for Kobe, of course.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

No point guard? Jameson as the backup? Boy, I don't know about that one.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

King Joseus said:


> Can you explain to me why it is that you are so against adding Kobe to this team? It can't be his basketball ability, can it?


Well for starters, the Chicago Bulls or for that matter, any other team should have to give up the farm even for Kobe Bryant. Hence, the article I posted which showed other superstar trades that are not of equal value at all (and it shouldn't be, once a player wants out or demands a trade, their trade value goes down no matter who the player is).

Also, even if the trade does happen and say we don't give up the farm for him, what's to say that he won't destroy the current team chemistry which is already very good?? Breaking up the core would mean chemistry would be a problem again and if the Bulls get Kobe, the Bulls players will have to play around Kobe rather than what they have done the last three years, play as a team (this will certainly take some time to adjust, especially the core players that might still be left after the trade and the youngsters the Bulls currently have).

What if in the end, the Bulls are the exact same team as last year even with the addition of Kobe?? Then the trade would be worthless because getting Kobe would narrow this team's chances to win now for around 4-5 years while the current roster can win now and win later from 1-10 years depending on if the Bulls continue to keep the core for that long.

Also, Kobe can opt out so if he does and he doesn't enjoy being with Chicago, all the players the Bulls gave up for him would be meaningless because he can just walk away. (unless of course Pax does what Boston did in giving an extension to KG's contract)

Lastly, let's not forget the Colorado Rape Scandal. First I thought Kobe was the scapegoat of all this, but if you read this, you will find out that Kobe is not quite who everyone thought he was... (I lost a lot of respect for him after reading this-still a great ballplayer though, no question)

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0924041kobea1.html


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

SALO said:


> JohnGaltLSD makes a lot of sense.
> 
> Kobe was in Chicago a short while ago and there was speculation as to why... maybe now we know?
> 
> ...


You see it as I do.

14.6 million is very manageable. Now, Gordon, Duhon, and Viktor = 10 million. You add in Tyrus, and that probably puts you at the limit. If not, add in a small contract or Griffin and a 1st. The part where I may go wrong with the CBA comes with how the trade kicker works. MikeDC or Sham may help me out there.

Pax offered Noah and Tyrus for KG, but thats okay because you are gaining back one of the best Bigs of all time. But in this case, we absolutely need to keep one of them for the sake of depth and talent. I'd be willing to sacrifice a lot of backcourt depth for the sake of keeping front court depth. We won't need too many guys playing with a Kirk-Kobe backcourt.

I would be content with this rotation up front -- 1. Smith/Noce and Wallace/Noah or 2. Tyrus/Noce and Wallace/Smith

SALO I definitely agree with you about why Kobe visited Chicago. I believe the snippet mentioned him at some club. Well he was probably here for another agenda. I do believe he should not have wanted out the way he did, but at the same time it took that tirade to make his desires a serious issue. If he didn't caues an uproar, whose to say that the Lakrers orgnanization took him seriously. That said, unless Indy sends JO for a Bynum and Kwame deal, this Chicago scenario will be alive. 

I find it hard to believe that when Kobe has a no-trade clause that it would take those 3 to be a starting package. Thats tough for me to swallow. Its definitely more than fair value for what superstars are dealt for not by choice.

Essentially, I want this deal to go down: Gordon, Thabo, 1st, and either Tyrus or Noah. I'm sure they would go with Tyrus (Sportscenter highlight reel) but then again, more people probably know who Noah is.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

bullybullz said:


> Well for starters...


I buy all your reasons except the chemistry issue and the opt-out clause.

He would be getting a Max Deal immediately after being traded. Its just how most of these trades work. 

I don't see a chemistry issue. No one on this team is outspoken. Kobe would have the respect of Big Ben and vice versa. We know he likes this team. Why else would he pick this place? I believe he has commented on Kirk highly in public. Deng is the perfect sidekick for him -- is great without the ball. Pax and Skiles love him. Otherwise they would have never gone to LA in 2004 (I believe) to try to make him a Bull. This trade would not be explored if they felt this was an issue.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Wow, exciting stuff.

Not really comfortable about giving up Tyrus and Noah.

The pain would be a lot less if we still had Chandler on the roster.

You pretty much have to make that trade though. Gordon is Gordon, Tyrus is a wildcard and Noah.... well... he's yet to play a game. Kobe is close to if not the best player in the NBA.

Its interesting that Kobe would want this. Hinrich-Kobe-Deng-Joe Smith(declining, average)-Ben Wallace (declining, close to average).... that's a decent lineup... but he has Odom and Bynum in LAL. The Bulls situation is better for next season... but with Smith and Wallace on the way out I don't see why he's making all that fuss to have a 1 year shot with Smith and Wallace and then build around Hinrich/Kobe/Deng/Noc. Is he going to be much happier with that? I don't want to deal with this BS two years from now. I guess it gets him out of the West.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Giving the Lakers both Noah and Thomas would make for a pretty difficult frontcourt situation for us. And Thomas almost has to be included in any trade to make one work, unless we send them Noc, Kirk or Wallace (which doesn't seem to make sense). 

I think building off DMD's thread, we may very well have to include Thabo instead of Griffin, if we're hellbent on keeping Noah. Thabo, I'd guess, would at least have some value for them. I don't see Griffin having much value at all for them. 

We'd need to look for another PG, but I think that's an easier to work problem than looking for a young big man. And or that matter, I don't really think Thabo's a PG, so I think we'd have to do it anyway


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

kukoc4ever said:


> Wow, exciting stuff.
> 
> Not really comfortable about giving up Tyrus and Noah.
> 
> ...


Thats the flip side. If Tyrus is nothing more than an energy guy and Noah is likely gonna be a solid starter but nothing special than this trade looks extremely lopsided despite our front court depth issues.

I agree with you, having Tyson would ease the pain, but thats another can of worms.

We could make this work today if we get PJ to sign for 10 million and send him with Gordon, Ty/Noah, and a 1st.

I can't stomach losing two young big men on a team that isn't oozing with front court depth/talent.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

theanimal23 said:


> I buy all your reasons except the chemistry issue and the opt-out clause.
> 
> He would be getting a Max Deal immediately after being traded. Its just how most of these trades work.
> 
> I don't see a chemistry issue. No one on this team is outspoken. Kobe would have the respect of Big Ben and vice versa. We know he likes this team. Why else would he pick this place? I believe he has commented on Kirk highly in public. Deng is the perfect sidekick for him -- is great without the ball. Pax and Skiles love him. Otherwise they would have never gone to LA in 2004 (I believe) to try to make him a Bull. This trade would not be explored if they felt this was an issue.


What I forgot to mention (and I probably should've added) about the chemistry issue is that, if Kobe get's traded here, he has to work with his new teammates and vice versa. It may take some time for Kobe and the other players to trust each other and there might be games where Kobe jacks up 30-40 shot's because he thinks it may be better off in a particular game if he puts everything on his shoulder's rather than trusting and using his teammates and letting the game come to him. 

I can see a lot of jealousy among the Bulls players already about Kobe coming to Chicago. I don't think things will fall in perfectly into place as you seem to suggest it would.

Remember Ben Wallace when he came to Chicago?? It should've been no sweat because he doesn't demand the ball a whole lot on offence and he basically replaced and is a much better version of Chandler with 4 DPOY awards to boot. Well Skiles and Ben had the headbandgate thing going and so even with a player like Wallace, Skiles couldn't see eye to eye at first and Skiles couldn't see eye to eye with P.J. either and aplogized and admitted for misusing him during the first 1/4 of the season.

It's these little things that worry me a heck of a whole lot especially if they bring in a great superstar in Kobe Bryant with a huge ego right alongside him as well. I'm sure many other Bulls fans if they think things through, will have the same worries as I do now.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Looking at the Lakers, would Noah really be a deal-breaker for them if they're so high on Bynum that they wouldn't trade him for Kidd or O'Neal and they're, in fact, gonna ship out Kobe and keep him? It just seems to me that Noah and Bynum would be tough to pair.

Then again, I don't see Thomas and Bynum being a spectacular fit together either. But again, I think Tyrus has to go to satisfy the trade rules.

The Lakers are star powered, maybe they'd be interested in Wallace? But would that kill desire for the deal on Kobe's part, or our chances for a championship? Much as I like our kids, I see a Noah/Tyrus/Smith/Noc frontcourt as being pretty iffy to contend this year.

I think it's more likely, in fact, we could get there with Wallace/Smith/Noc/Marc Jackson or Brian Skinner, so if push came to shove, I'd probably deal both young bigs. I'd try like hell not to though.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

It's really a shame 1) We can't deal Noc until December and 2) the Lakers have 0 need for him given the other guys on their roster (Odom, Walton, Radmanovic), because I very much think we could live without him and contend.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I'd wait until December when Kobe sees how much the Lakers suck, and we can get the deal down to Hinrich and Noah as the main pieces.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

bullybullz said:


> What I forgot to mention ...


Your points are valid in regards to Skiles-Big Ben and how these Bulls have never played next to a Mega Superstar. Theres no sure answer to this issue unless Kobe is a Bull and we see how it pans out.

That said, I do think the guys on our team are mentally tough. You know Noah doesn't care as long as he is winning. I feel that guys like Kirk know their place. I have never felt it being an issue with Deng but who knows. In general, I think there are certain guys who people would love to play with. The fact that Big Ben and Kobe are winners would rejuvenate themselves into working harder for another title. I'm sure Kobe wants to prove he is a winner without Shaq and Big Ben can win outside of Detroit.

As MikeDC pointed out, it's just too hard to give up both Tyrus and Noah. Tyrus makes approximately $2 more million than Noah. Now if Tyrus is the hold up, as long as we keep Noah, by all means trade him. I'll hate losing him because I haven't been this excited about a Bulls prospect since the C-unit. But keeping Noah would do us wonders. The kid is NBA Ready and is a legit 7-footer.

We would likely not have a backup PG, but I'm sure once we trade for Kobe, the Tax is not as big of an issue. We would need to make slight fixes such as adding a guy on the Vet Min/LLE to replace Duhon/Gordon.

Pax has seemed to persue the big names. Granted, no trade has occured but he offered #2/Tyson/Deng for KG, then Noah and Tyrus plus fillers. He has offered #2 and Chandler for Amare. There was interest for Gasol at the right price. Now this with Kobe. I really think he does not think this current squad can win it all. Now is he right? I don't know. You can argue several ways with his trade scnearios in the past, like #7 for Al Harrington. At times it seems the trades that do not go down end up being the best. And if accepted, Pax made the wrong move. That said, I can't blame him in a league that is historically dominated by superstars and you play with two of them.

I hope we don't lose both big guys. We need to keep one. If only Thabo and 1st could replace Noah or Tyrus.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

theanimal23 said:


> Your points are valid in regards to Skiles-Big Ben and how these Bulls have never played next to a Mega Superstar. Theres no sure answer to this issue unless Kobe is a Bull and we see how it pans out.
> 
> That said, I do think the guys on our team are mentally tough. You know Noah doesn't care as long as he is winning. I feel that guys like Kirk know their place. I have never felt an it being an issue with Deng but who knows. In general, I think there are certain guys who people would love to play for. The fact that Big Ben and Kobe are winners would rejuvenate themselves into working harder for another title. I'm sure Kobe wants to prove he is a winner without Shaq and Big Ben can win outside of Detroit.
> 
> ...


You are right, but no one was sure what would happen when Big Ben and P.J. came here, but right from the start, things did not go smoothly, Skiles not allowing Big Ben to listen to loud music in the locker room, etc etc. I personally thought something huge like headbandgate would have never happened in my wildest dreams (Big Ben is more of a quite guy) and who the hell knows what might happen if Kobe comes to Chicago??!! Maybe destroy the Jordan statue outside the UC with his bare hands, LOL.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

MikeDC said:


> Looking at the Lakers, would Noah really be a deal-breaker for them if they're so high on Bynum that they wouldn't trade him for Kidd or O'Neal and they're, in fact, gonna ship out Kobe and keep him? It just seems to me that Noah and Bynum would be tough to pair.
> 
> Then again, I don't see Thomas and Bynum being a spectacular fit together either. But again, I think Tyrus has to go to satisfy the trade rules.


If Tyrus doesn't fit with a 7 foot true center, who does he fit with? 




> The Lakers are star powered, maybe they'd be interested in Wallace?


 I've often had the same thought. Wallace is a semi-big name so getting him in return would be a selling point and appeal to the casual fan that buys tickets. 



> I think it's more likely, in fact, we could get there with Wallace/Smith/Noc/Marc Jackson or Brian Skinner, so if push came to shove, I'd probably deal both young bigs. I'd try like hell not to though.


Well, Kobe creates a 5 or 6 year window, so Wallace/Smith might be better than Tyrus/Noah next year but I don't think they'll be better than either one of Tyrus or Noah in the 4 years after that.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

bullybullz said:


> You are right, but no one was sure what would happen when Big Ben and P.J. came here, but right from the start, things did not go smoothly, Skiles not allowing Big Ben to listen to loud music in the locker room, etc etc. I personally thought something huge like headbandgate would have never happened in my wildest dreams (Big Ben is more of a quite guy) and who the hell knows what might happen if Kobe comes to Chicago??!! Maybe destroy the Jordan statue outside the UC with his bare hands, LOL.


What if he replace's MJ's head with his own? :lol:


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

theanimal23 said:


> What if he replace's MJ's head with his own? :lol:


Quite possible, actually. Or just replace the jersey number to 24 or 8, whichever he damn well wants.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

rwj333 said:


> If Tyrus doesn't fit with a 7 foot true center, who does he fit with?
> 
> 
> I've often had the same thought. Wallace is a semi-big name so getting him in return would be a selling point and appeal to the casual fan that buys tickets.
> ...


I don't think its far-fetch to consider Big Ben as part of a trade from a strictly financial standpoint regarding the CBA and ticket sales for the Lakers. From a basketball standpoint, it'd be a dumb move for LA. 

Big Ben is a recognizeable face and that is LA's #1 priority. We would lose some veteran experience but at this point, if we could do Big Ben and Gordon for Kobe, we got ourselves an incredible bargain. I see Big Ben as a key piece for this team for two more years -- this upcoming season and the following. In his final year, he will still produce but not to the level we have all come to recognize him for. I will be looking at him as more of an expiring contract that year anyway. 

That said, I think the Lakers can still compete for a playoff spot with Big Ben - Odom - Walton - Gordon - Farmar.

For all the reasons it makes sense, I think LA might be set on a complete rebuild. Thats just hard to accept, even for Hollywood.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

theanimal23 said:


> I don't think its far-fetch to consider Big Ben as part of a trade from a strictly financial standpoint regarding the CBA and ticket sales for the Lakers. From a basketball standpoint, it'd be a dumb move for LA.
> 
> Big Ben is a recognizeable face and that is LA's #1 priority. We would lose some veteran experience but at this point, if we could do Big Ben and Gordon for Kobe, we got ourselves an incredible bargain. I see Big Ben as a key piece for this team for two more years -- this upcoming season and the following. In his final year, he will still produce but not to the level we have all come to recognize him for. I will be looking at him as more of an expiring contract that year anyway.
> 
> ...


All championship teams need a good big men unless they have two other superstars at different positions. We lose Big Ben, we don't win the title, it's that simple.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Trading for Kobe is a bad idea. Paxson should stay away from this one with a 10 foot stick.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

Wallace, Gordon & Thabo would be my preferred deal. Definitely wishful thinking though. Draft picks thrown in wouldn't hurt us either assuming Kobe doesn't suffer some season-ending injury. 

You can replace Big Ben's rebounding/defense with a platoon of Noah, Tyrus, and a veteran signing or two such as Mutombo/Skinner. What we'd really miss is Big Ben's passing, but I think Noah/Thomas could surprise in this area. 

Kobe replaces Thabo/Gordon all by himself. He does everything they can do but at a higher level. Kobe/Hinrich would get the bulk of the minutes in the backcourt, and as long as one of them doesn't get injured we could live with Duhon/Griff/Curry getting the leftovers, though I'd still look to acquire another guard. 

I just hope PJ Brown's agent has heard from Pax regarding the Kobe talk and that's the reason PJ hasn't accepted minimum offers from other teams yet. :gopray:


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## fuzznuts (May 23, 2006)

I thought this was regarding Kobe Tai... :cheers:

for those who dont know.. google the name!


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

I'm skeptical because so many of the better analysts are certain Kobe is staying put and it makes such little sense for the Lakers to move him.

I suppose you'd have to do Tyrus/BG/Noah but I wouldn't be too excited about it. I think we'd only be a few wins better in the short term and probably worse off in the long term.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

I really don't want to give up Tyrus. 

Did anyone catch sportscenter sitdown with kobe? If anyone could give a recap. would appreciate it.


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## Bulls4Life (Nov 13, 2002)

On December 15, 2007 Pax will announce...

Successful Trade Scenario
Congratulations on a successful trade.
Due to Chicago and L.A. Lakers being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Chicago and L.A. Lakers had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
Trade ID
Trade ID #4186920

*Chicago Trade Breakdown*
Change in Team Outlook: -14.5 ppg, -11.0 rpg, and -0.8 apg. 

Incoming Players 
Kobe Bryant
6-6 SG from Lower Merion (HS)
31.6 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 5.4 apg in 40.8 minutes 

Outgoing Players 
Viktor Khryapa
6-9 SF from Ukraine (Foreign)
2.1 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.7 apg in 6.9 minutes 
Ben Gordon
6-3 SG from Connecticut
21.4 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 3.6 apg in 33.0 minutes 
Joe Smith
6-10 PF from Maryland
8.5 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 0.8 apg in 23.1 minutes 
Andres Nocioni
6-7 SF from Argentina (Foreign)
14.1 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 1.1 apg in 26.5 minutes 

* L.A. Lakers Trade Breakdown*
Change in Team Outlook: +14.5 ppg, +11.0 rpg, and +0.8 apg. 

Incoming Players 
Viktor Khryapa
6-9 SF from Ukraine (Foreign)
2.1 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.7 apg in 6.9 minutes 
Ben Gordon
6-3 SG from Connecticut
21.4 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 3.6 apg in 33.0 minutes 
Joe Smith
6-10 PF from Maryland
8.5 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 0.8 apg in 23.1 minutes 
Andres Nocioni
6-7 SF from Argentina (Foreign)
14.1 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 1.1 apg in 26.5 minutes 

Outgoing Players 
Kobe Bryant
6-6 SG from Lower Merion (HS)
31.6 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 5.4 apg in 40.8 minutes 




Hinrich/Duhon/Curry
Kobe/Thabo/Griffin
Wallace/Gray/_Noah_
TT/Noah/_Deng_
Deng/_Thabo_/_Griffin_

:swammi:


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

MikeDC said:


> Giving the Lakers both Noah and Thomas would make for a pretty difficult frontcourt situation for us. And Thomas almost has to be included in any trade to make one work, unless we send them Noc, Kirk or Wallace (which doesn't seem to make sense).
> 
> I think building off DMD's thread, we may very well have to include Thabo instead of Griffin, if we're hellbent on keeping Noah. Thabo, I'd guess, would at least have some value for them. I don't see Griffin having much value at all for them.
> 
> We'd need to look for another PG, but I think that's an easier to work problem than looking for a young big man. And or that matter, I don't really think Thabo's a PG, so I think we'd have to do it anyway


Substitituting Thabo for Griffin, the trade still works under the CBA:

Gordon
Thomas
Duhon
Thabo
Viktor
Gray

for 

Kobe

I didn't mention in it my initial trade proposal, but I think we'd need to throw in a future 1st as well. At least with my original proposal. Maybe not with this one (not sure).

edit: Here's a trade that works right now that is six players for three as opposed to six for one:

Gordon
Thomas
Duhon
Thabo
Viktor
Griffin
(future 1st round pick)

for

Kobe
Farmar
Turiaf

I don't know if LA would be willing to give up young players if they trade Bryant, though Farmar and Turiaf are hardly great players.


Bulls after this trade:

Wallace, Noah, Gray
Smith, Turiaf
Deng, Nocioni
Bryant, Curry
Hinrich, Farmar


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Throwing out the fillers, a trade like that seems to reduce to 
Gordon - Quality young player
Thomas - Good prospect
Thabo - OK prospect
Duhon - Role player
1st Round pick

It seems in the same ballpark as what KG (Jefferson, Green, Telfair, Gomes, what's likely a higher first) brought back.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

spongyfungy said:


> *I really don't want to give up Tyrus.*
> 
> Did anyone catch sportscenter sitdown with kobe? If anyone could give a recap. would appreciate it.


Same here. I don't feel like giving him up either but if you can keep Noah you have to. I'd rather trade Noah but I don't see that happening. Tyrus has too much potential for LA to pass on.

Kobe didn't say anything other than that the Lakers are his team and he will go about the season as usual, blah blah blah. 

Its either he was told to shut up, he feels sorry that he caused an uproar, or he wants to be a Laker.

I'm sure he wants to be a Laker but not at the cost of losing. You look at a guy like Kobe (there was an article on TrueHoop a few weeks ago), and his legacy is at stake. Although he's considered the best player today, his image will be looked back at the guy who ruined the Lakers for his personal success which led to no success in the playoffs. He wants to win and wants to help his legacy -- the only way this happens is if he leaves the Lakers. 

I think he's a Bull if we can appease the Lakers. I'm not sure I want that if the package isn't the right price. My dream offer would be Gordon, Smith, Thabo, Noah come December 15th. I don't think we will get Kobe for anything less than Gordon and either Tyrus or Noah. Those two are a must in any package. Smith makes about 5.36 million. He, Gordon, and Tyrus will make near 14-15 mil and Thabo makes close to 2 million. Noah makes two million less than Tyrus, and I think it should still work under the CBA.

For me, if we are left with a Kirk-Kobe-Deng-Tyrus-Wallace starting lineup, we win the East. But JR better be ready to pony up and pay the tax -- because we will need to add two big guys on our bench. If we are not willing to pay the tax, this will be a horrendous move no matter what price since it will take some 'gutting'.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

The Bulls should think twice about including Deng, TT or Noah in a trade at this point. The true value of these young players is just not known, and one or more of them could end up an all-star in the not-so-distant future. We will know a lot more about each player's capabilities in January. 

Meanwhile if Kobe and LA continue to quarrel, his trade value will decline. By February, a trade featuring Gordon and Wallace might be the best they should offer if Noah and TT develop.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Someone mentioned a while back that if we traded Wallace and got Kobe, we'd still have a few year window with Kobe.

I disagree... I think Kobe's "basketball age" is quite a bit higher than his true age. With all that post-season play and a couple of significant injuries to boot, I don't see him as having any more in the tank than Wallace or KG. At least, I wouldn't bet on it.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

MikeDC said:


> Someone mentioned a while back that if we traded Wallace and got Kobe, we'd still have a few year window with Kobe.
> 
> I disagree... I think Kobe's "basketball age" is quite a bit higher than his true age. With all that post-season play and a couple of significant injuries to boot, I don't see him as having any more in the tank than Wallace or KG. At least, I wouldn't bet on it.


If that's true we shouldn't trade for him, but I think that theory is bunk anyway. MJ may not have come out of high school, but he still worked his *** off 24/7 and was a great player with few injury problems at 34. Games are certainly more arduous than practice but not a great deal more in my opinion, and I'd guess that the amount of wear on MJ's tires at 29 was as much as the wear Kobe has right now. I checked around on Basketball-reference.com, and elite shooting guards like MJ, Dr. J, Drexler etc. were great until 33-34. Though Kobe has had some worrying knee problems, I think we should expect the same.

I think the only reason that theory is floated is Tracy McGrady's back situation/step back in Houston under Van Gundy, and I think that guy was just very fragile and under a bad offensive coach.


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## LoyalBull (Jun 12, 2002)

4 pages of ideas based on a realgm post? Guys, Kupcheck can't be having disucussions involving Kobe if he is no vacation (which he is currently).

This deal won't get done.

Simply won't.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

LoyalBull said:


> 4 pages of ideas based on a realgm post? Guys, Kupcheck can't be having disucussions involving Kobe if he is no vacation (which he is currently).
> 
> This deal won't get done.
> 
> Simply won't.


I agree. There would be a little more smoke than this if the two teams were serious.

Kobe is going to be a hard player to move. 

--The salary & trade kicker are intimidating. 

--Many GM's would probably rather not have him as the poster-boy for the franchise, all things being equal. It takes a team like Phoenix or Dallas with established superstars to keep his ego down on the farm. Wallace is the only Bulls who could probably shut him up.

--Finally, the guy can get up and walk away in two years, and he doesn't exactly have an Elton Brand type of reputation for being an easy guy to get along with. He's acting out while playing for a coach who is probably one the the best at handling supersized egos and supertalents. On the other hand Skiles has the opposite reputation. 

It's hard to justify trading away a good piece of a franchise for a temperamental superstar with that kind of baggage.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

MikeDC said:


> Someone mentioned a while back that if we traded Wallace and got Kobe, we'd still have a few year window with Kobe.
> 
> I disagree... I think Kobe's "basketball age" is quite a bit higher than his true age. With all that post-season play and a couple of significant injuries to boot, I don't see him as having any more in the tank than Wallace or KG. At least, I wouldn't bet on it.


I absolutely agree. At a minimum, we shouldn't assume that Kobe will be playing at a very high level through his 35th birthday.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

You guys are no fun at all! I agree, but it's way more fun that talking about whether Tyrus' knee tendonitis will go away or Andre Barrett is going to make the team


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

MikeDC said:


> You guys are no fun at all! I agree, but it's way more fun that talking about whether Tyrus' knee tendonitis will go away or Andre Barrett is going to make the team


http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=2212 - says the competition is between Barret, Justin Chase and Thomas Gardner. 

This is a good article on this year's free agency.

BTW, not only was Mitch on vacation last week, so was Pax. Conspiracy?:biggrin:


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

narek said:


> http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=2212 - says the competition is between Barret, Justin Chase and Thomas Gardner.
> 
> This is a good article on this year's free agency.
> 
> BTW, not only was Mitch on vacation last week, so was Pax. Conspiracy?:biggrin:


If I see them talking together at Club Med next week, I'll hunt down a computer and post about it :lol:


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

So we get all good and lathered up about this so some folks can take potshots at Paxson when it doesn't happen?

Nice.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Trades can work with the group we have now, but a P.J. Brown S&T makes it so much easier for all involved. If I'm correct, the Bulls can go over the cap to re-sign their free agent (in this case P.J.) and then wait 30 days to deal him. I'd like to see something like this happen...

P.J. Brown(8.5 mil)
Ben Gordon(4.9 mil)
Tyrus Thomas(3.5 mil)
Thabo Sefolosha(1.8 mil)
2008 1st Round Draft Pick

for 

Kobe Bryant(19.5 mil)
Maurice Evans(1.7 mil)

works under the cap. The Lakers get a legit 20 ppg scorer in Gordon, a possible great player in his 2nd year in Tyrus, another young rotation guy in Thabo, a huge expiring contract in PJ, and an extra 1st Round pick in the upcoming draft. 

Bulls 9-man rotation would be...

PG-Hinrich(34), Duhon(14)
SG-Kobe(38), Evans(10)
SF-Deng(36), Nocioni(12)
PF-Smith(28), Nocioni(20)
C-Wallace(32), Noah(16)

Overall,

Kobe-38 mpg
Deng-36 mpg
Hinrich-34 mpg
Nocioni-32 mpg
Wallace-32 mpg
Smith-28 mpg
Noah-16 mpg
Duhon-14 mpg
Evans-10 mpg

That's a contender folks. Hinrich, Deng, and Kobe will probably combine for 60 pts a game. Smith and Wallace are solid interior defenders and rebounders and Smith is no worse than PJ on offense. Nocioni gives 10-15 ppg off the bench. Duhon and Noah play their 20 or so mpg better than the other teams' back-ups and Evans is another guy who can give Kobe a rest and maybe drop a couple of buckets. 

That being said, in star-obsessed LA, it would be hard to see Kobe getting traded.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

rwj333 said:


> If that's true we shouldn't trade for him, but I think that theory is bunk anyway. MJ may not have come out of high school, but he still worked his *** off 24/7 and was a great player with few injury problems at 34. Games are certainly more arduous than practice but not a great deal more in my opinion, and I'd guess that the amount of wear on MJ's tires at 29 was as much as the wear Kobe has right now. I checked around on Basketball-reference.com, and elite shooting guards like MJ, Dr. J, Drexler etc. were great until 33-34. Though Kobe has had some worrying knee problems, I think we should expect the same.
> 
> I think the only reason that theory is floated is Tracy McGrady's back situation/step back in Houston under Van Gundy, and I think that guy was just very fragile and under a bad offensive coach.


Please do not compare Kobe Bryant to Michael Jordan. Please. Don't.


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## bullybullz (Jan 28, 2007)

I don't understand why in all these trade scenario's, the Bulls are giving up sooooooooooo much. Did you guys not see the KG or AI, Wilt, or any other superstar trades?? 

At most I would give up is Gordon, Khryapa, Duhon, sign-and-trade P.J. couple first round picks and cash. That's it. Nothing more and nothing less. Also in the deal, Kobe get's an extension and it would also be great if LA would give the Bulls a trade exception in return.

At least now, we still have a ****ing bench after the trade, while keeping most of the core.

If LA doesn't like the deal, they can kiss my ***. They won't get a better one than that the more they keep waiting anyways.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

Why would the Bulls give up so much when every the majority of star players traded for in recent years have been had for pennies on the dollar?


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## dougthonus (Jul 18, 2006)

Gordon + Tyrus or Noah (not both) + S&T PJ Brown would be the trade I would do before the season starts. If you wait until December or the deadline, we lose an absolute ton of flexibility by not being able to provide contract fillers. 

It basically takes last years team and replaces PJ Brown with Joe Smith, Ben Gordon with Kobe Bryant, and we lose Tyrus (who wasn't a factor in the playoffs anyway). That's a team set up to win a title or seriously compete anyway. 

If the Lakers trade Kobe, I can't imagine they'd get a better deal than that unless they want older players to try to win now which seems unlikely. Both Tyrus and Gordon would have a good fit personality with LA. Gordon can be a scoring machine, and Tyrus can be a highlight reel. The fact that Kobe can block a trade to any team he doesn't want to play for would limit their options severely as well.

Now I don't think the Lakers will trade Kobe, and the realgm poster is supposed to know some inside sources, but isn't an insider himself (supposedly has good credibility from what I've heard in hte past though i haven't talked to him much before). I just find it hard to believe that he's got any real information that isn't floating around in the media yet.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

The trade we should be trying for this summer is:

Kirk Hinrich, Tyrus Thomas, Viktar Khryapa, Michael Sweetney (S&T), Draftpicks. 

This trade makes a lot more sense. Gordon+Thomas, not so much. But giving a second rate player (Hinrich), with a top rate prospect (Thomas), makes more sense than a top rate player with a top rate prospect. This trade works under the CBA. Michael Sweetney would be a lot more likely to agree to a sign and trade than PJ Brown...since Sweetney just simply will take whatever the hell he gets. Its my understanding that Bulls did not tender a QO to Sweetney, thus not making him a restricted free agent, but still hold onto his rights.

PG-Ben Gordon/Chris Duhon
SG-Kobe Bryant/Thabo Sefolosha
SF-Luol Deng/Andres Nocioni
PF-Joe Smith/Joakim Noah
C- Ben Wallace/Aaron Gray

This trade makes sense on so many levels for the team this year. Kobe is more than enough of a capable ball handler to make the backcourt work. We still have Duhon in case we need a true point guard. We have good depth. More minutes opened up for Nocioni/Noah in the frontcourt. A spot in the future for Aaron Gray who looks like an NBA starting caliber center. So you can either go with Noah/Gray as your future starting combo, or pick off a vet for the MLE. A Gordon/Kobe/Deng combo is very scary, easily the best trio in the league, and they would have a hell of a team around them.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

How has trading away pretty good main young pieces for a better main piece worked for teams? 

It seems like the only deal that's kind of worked has been the Shaq exodus out of LA. 

Kobe Bryant is the new Pau Gasol for 2007-2008.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

SAY NO TO GORDON / TYRUS / NOAH / and others for KOBE!


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## magohaydz (Dec 21, 2005)

Mebarak said:


> The trade we should be trying for this summer is:
> A Gordon/Kobe/Deng combo is very scary, easily the best trio in the league, and they would have a hell of a team around them.


better than KG, Pierce and Allen? I'd put them on par, but we'd have a better bench. I hope we do get Kobe, I really do as he is one of my favourite players - I just cant see it happening.


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## Snake (Jun 10, 2007)

dougthonus said:


> *Gordon + Tyrus or Noah (not both) + S&T PJ Brown* would be the trade I would do before the season starts. If you wait until December or the deadline, we lose an absolute ton of flexibility by not being able to provide contract fillers.
> 
> It basically takes last years team and replaces PJ Brown with Joe Smith, Ben Gordon with Kobe Bryant, and we lose Tyrus (who wasn't a factor in the playoffs anyway). That's a team set up to win a title or seriously compete anyway.
> 
> ...


+1 great post

That's the trade I would do and maybe throw in a pick. I would *not* repeat would *not* do Gordon and both Tyrus and Noah. It looks like the Knick are the only other possible destination and I can't see them beating this with a Balkman/Lee/Crawford/Nate/Collins/Chandler/whatever offer (Curry and Randolph are apparently untouchable).

LA would have:

Crittenton/Farmar
Gordon
Odom
Thomas or Noah
Bynum

A year or two from now I honestly think they're better off than they would be with Kobe. Though at this point I don't think Kobe will get traded, but I guess we'll see.


----------



## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Doug's post is spot on regarding at trade that would work under the CBA and would be incredible value for the Bulls. I personally would want to put Noah in place of Tyrus, but if the Lakers wanted Tyrus I'd do the deal in a hot second.

That said, I'd probably do Gordon, Noah, Thabo, and filler. But the issue becomes that the filler is probably 2 key rotation players (say Duhon and Smith/Noce). Thats mighty tough to follow if you want to win now. 

Another issue -- This move to get Kobe better mean we are willing to pay some serious tax to add future MLE FAs to build a complete team. I would not want to make Eddie House type signings. That won't win you a title. 

Regarding JohnGaltLSD, he first brought up the Kobe to Chicago tirade before it came on the radio. While I don't think he is 100% correct (well, his sources), I do think when there is smoke, there is fire. He has some pertinent info, but things change quickly. A poster on RealGM by the name of Celtic Thug used to post on the Boston board. Their board was heavily divided upon him being legit or a troll. He called several things correctly, such as the Kobe-KG phone issue before ESPN mentioend it. But he also made up a trade rumor or two. On draft day, he said that a trade was going down but he thought it'd be the KG trade. All along, he had the right overall picture, but things change on the fly. His source was someone close to a player, or the player himself -- I don't remember. But the player he knew about was traded in a blockbuster deal. I think its the same with John's sources and Kobe. There are negotiations and they may be a 40% chance (random number; this may seem low vs say 75%, but in NBA standards this could be high. Doesn't mean a deal is happening, but there are definitely seroius talks.

I think almost every Bulls fan on both boards would not do the proposed deal orginally mentioned. The overall consensus may be split 50-50 or 60-40 on wanting Kobe, but we all would be okay with it at the right price. Gordon and both our young bigs are not. I know individually they will never sniff Kobe's stature. But in terms of value, thats the 3rd, 4th, and 9th pick being sent away on top of a rotation player. Thats serious value for a guy wanting out who has a No Trade Clause no other star possesses.

Thats why I always felt a trade such as Gordon, Viktor, Duhon, and Smith would be ideal. At worst, throw in Thab because Kirk/Kobe is the best backcourt in the NBA. On top of that, you have a deep frontcourt. But those are essentially the deals I do outside the one Doug mentioned. I'll hate losing Tyrus, I got some man-love for the kid, but if thats the deal he has to go. You don't pass up a chance like this.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I think the presented deal is a huge mistake. I think when all is said and done, Ben Gordon will be considered better, or at the very worst an equal to Kobe when looking at the legends of the game.

Kirk Hinrich is the obvious guy to go, Luol Deng as a last resort to make it work. You only give up 1 of Deng/Hinrich, and you give up Thomas if its Hinrich, otherwise you just give up Deng + Brown + Khryapa in the other deal (Joakim I believe can't be traded in a package deal until Dec. 15).


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

Mebarak said:


> I think the presented deal is a huge mistake. I think when all is said and done, Ben Gordon will be considered better, or at the very worst an equal to Kobe when looking at the legends of the game.
> 
> Kirk Hinrich is the obvious guy to go, Luol Deng as a last resort to make it work. You only give up 1 of Deng/Hinrich, and you give up Thomas if its Hinrich, otherwise you just give up Deng + Brown + Khryapa in the other deal (Joakim I believe can't be traded in a package deal until Dec. 15).


Wow, Gordon better than Kobe? That's a bigger stretch than Paris Hilton... :lol:


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&id=2983465



> LAS VEGAS -- It was a simple yes or no question, and Kobe Bryant could have ended much of the speculation over his future simply by answering it.
> 
> "Do you still want the Lakers to trade you?"
> 
> ...





> Nichols: "You said one day you wanted to be traded, you said you wanted to be a 'Laker for life.' There were different phone calls back and forth."
> 
> Bryant: "I think a lot of people misinterpreted it. But that's water under the bridge to me, because going forward, we're handling our situation between ourselves, meaning the Lakers organization and myself. If things, if things were to be different, we both would have handled the situation a little differently."
> 
> ...





> Around the league, most people seem to think it boils down to this: Kobe still wants out, but the Lakers won't trade him -- at least that's the impression being left by Lakers GM Mitch Kupchak, who was unavailable for comment because he is not due back from a European vacation until Friday.
> 
> But if Bryant holds out, what choice would the Lakers have?
> 
> If Bryant were to stage a holdout (which would be his only leverage) and put his image at a colossal risk, the Lakers could try to wait him out, withhold his salary and hope he changed his mind after missing his paychecks. But would the Lakers honestly believe that would work? They know better than anyone that we're talking about perhaps the most stubborn player in the entire NBA, a guy whose competitive instincts take over any time he is challenged.





> So what we're left with is a somewhat cryptic explanation of the "water under the bridge" quote … and little else to go on as we try to figure out what will happen six weeks from now as the Lakers open training camp.


----------



## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

dougthonus said:


> Gordon + Tyrus or Noah (not both) + S&T PJ Brown would be the trade I would do before the season starts. If you wait until December or the deadline, we lose an absolute ton of flexibility by not being able to provide contract fillers.
> 
> It basically takes last years team and replaces PJ Brown with Joe Smith, Ben Gordon with Kobe Bryant, and we lose Tyrus (who wasn't a factor in the playoffs anyway). That's a team set up to win a title or seriously compete anyway.
> 
> ...


Damn, Doug, why with all your Bulls connections are you actually among the factions that believe PJ Brown would ever agree to a sign and trade to the Lakers or to any team that isn't elite? PJ, I believe, just finished off a 4 year/32 million dollar contract. He seems as responsible as they get, so he's probably banked a lot of money. He's NEVER made an indication that he would be willing for a poor team or a middle of the road team next year. What makes you so sure he could be bought? I just don't see it. Hey, if you have some kind of inside info that he would accept such a lucrative deal to a bad team, please tell us. I tend to think he wouldn't even consider it.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Damn, Doug, why with all your Bulls connections are you actually among the factions that believe PJ Brown would ever agree to a sign and trade to the Lakers or to any team that isn't elite? PJ, I believe, just finished off a 4 year/32 million dollar contract. He seems as responsible as they get, so he's probably banked a lot of money. He's NEVER made an indication that he would be willing for a poor team or a middle of the road team next year. What makes you so sure he could be bought? I just don't see it. Hey, if you have some kind of inside info that he would accept such a lucrative deal to a bad team, please tell us. I tend to think he wouldn't even consider it.


PJ was looking for a 2 year, 6 million per deal. I'm sure he'd love a deal that nets him 9.5 million next year. 

Its not like he's locked into the Lakers. They could just cut him and let him sign with a contender.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Damn, Doug, why with all your Bulls connections are you actually among the factions that believe PJ Brown would ever agree to a sign and trade to the Lakers or to any team that isn't elite? PJ, I believe, just finished off a 4 year/32 million dollar contract. He seems as responsible as they get, so he's probably banked a lot of money. He's NEVER made an indication that he would be willing for a poor team or a middle of the road team next year. What makes you so sure he could be bought? I just don't see it. Hey, if you have some kind of inside info that he would accept such a lucrative deal to a bad team, please tell us. I tend to think he wouldn't even consider it.


I never believed PJ would take the money to play on a poor team until he did not entertain the Cetlics offer of the Vet Min. He wanted the Full MLE from Boston. Now that could be due to location, but if he wanted to win a ring he would have likely taken that offer. Thats what changed my mind and makes me think he might take the money, especially if LA says play a few months and then we'll put you on the IR. Better yet, don't show up.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Do you guys have links to these stories about what PJ would or wouldn't do next year?


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Do you guys have links to these stories about what PJ would or wouldn't do next year?


I don't have anything on me (articles), but I remember reading short blurbs that the Suns and Mavs were interested. PJ was considering their offesr or retirement. PJ himself was not sure what he was going to do. That said, I think he was looking to stay in the south if he was playing as it'd be closer to home. Otherwise he'd go elsewhere for significantly more pay (ie Boston).

If there could be a S&T with an immediate release, I think PJ would do it. I don't see why it can't happen. Jermaine Jackson, some random scrub for the Eddy Curry trade got a deal and was cut by us. I can't see Stern overruling it as he has bigger fish to fry and its CBA compliant. No rule in the CBA says you can't do it. It might after this this trade to stop future ones.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

dougthonus said:


> If the Lakers trade Kobe, I can't imagine they'd get a better deal than that unless they want older players to try to win now which seems unlikely. Both Tyrus and Gordon would have a good fit personality with LA. Gordon can be a scoring machine, and Tyrus can be a highlight reel. The fact that Kobe can block a trade to any team he doesn't want to play for would limit their options severely as well.
> 
> Now I don't think the Lakers will trade Kobe, and the realgm poster is supposed to know some inside sources, but isn't an insider himself (supposedly has good credibility from what I've heard in hte past though i haven't talked to him much before). I just find it hard to believe that he's got any real information that isn't floating around in the media yet.


The fact that that's theoretically the best package the Lakers could get for Kobe is why I'm quite convinced that the many reports that he's not on the block are accurate. This isn't a Gasol situation where the main considerations are basketball considerations; this is a situation where a team would be trading away the face of the franchise, i.e. tons of financial success, just to calm a conflict. 



Mebarak said:


> The trade we should be trying for this summer is:
> 
> Kirk Hinrich, Tyrus Thomas, Viktar Khryapa, Michael Sweetney (S&T), Draftpicks.
> 
> This trade makes a lot more sense. Gordon+Thomas, not so much. But giving a second rate player (Hinrich), with a top rate prospect (Thomas), makes more sense than a top rate player with a top rate prospect.


1) I don't think the Lakers would consider that.

2) There's a near consensus that BG isn't capable of playing the point. Kobe may very well be capable of doing so but probably can't come close to maximizing his talents doing so.



Mebarak said:


> I think the presented deal is a huge mistake. I think when all is said and done, Ben Gordon will be considered better, or at the very worst an equal to Kobe when looking at the legends of the game.


I am NOT a Kobe fan but I think the reality is that he'll probably be rightfully considered a top 20-35 all time player and BG won't approach the top 100.


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## laso (Jul 24, 2002)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Damn, Doug, why with all your Bulls connections are you actually among the factions that believe PJ Brown would ever agree to a sign and trade to the Lakers or to any team that isn't elite? PJ, I believe, just finished off a 4 year/32 million dollar contract. He seems as responsible as they get, so he's probably banked a lot of money. He's NEVER made an indication that he would be willing for a poor team or a middle of the road team next year. What makes you so sure he could be bought? I just don't see it. Hey, if you have some kind of inside info that he would accept such a lucrative deal to a bad team, please tell us. I tend to think he wouldn't even consider it.


I don't see how someone could refuse $10 million for basically doing close to nothing. Even if he's got some cash saved up from his previous deal, I'm sure he could find some use for the cash (by his momma a house or something). He knows that once he retires, he won't get that type of money anytime soon. The fact that he refused to sign for a contender may actually be a sign he thinks something may be brewing and he's got an opportunity to make some dough. But I'm just guessing here.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Do you guys have links to these stories about what PJ would or wouldn't do next year?


I'm sure they don't. I'd imagine you don't either. It's all speculation. I don't know what PJ would do. Is it _possible_ PJ would take 8 or 9 million dollars to go play for a crappy team? I certainly think so. He may have made a lot in the past, but it's still significant dough. I think it's equally possible that in the twilight of his career he may only want to play for a contender, even if it meant playing for the minimum for Dallas, etc.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

Yeah I am sure PJ wouldn't want a buttload of money to sign with the lakers for a year...:thinking2:  

Oh, and another thing that should be pointed out and wasn't, during that ESPN interview Kobe was wearing red and black warm ups.... :bananallama: 


ACE


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

I'm with dougthonus (and Salo?) on this one.

S&T PJ Brown solves the bulk of the salary difference / 125% rule issue. 

From there, it becomes an issue of the talent that LA would accept in return to make the actual deal part of the deal worthwhile.

If I were LA, I wouldn't accept anything less than Gordon and/or Deng to get things started. Probably Tyrus and a couple of picks might get the job done.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

fuzznuts said:


> I thought this was regarding Kobe Tai.


I'd deal most anything for Kobe Tai. As for the Bulls, if only for the sanity of this board, Paxson should pull the trigger on Bryant and insist on the Lakers taking Gordon as part of any deal.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

ehmunro said:


> I'd deal most anything for Kobe Tai. As for the Bulls, if only for the sanity of this board, Paxson should pull the trigger on Bryant and insist on the Lakers taking Gordon as part of any deal.


Of all the reasons why Paxson should acquire Kobe, making the move in order to preserve this board's sanity must rank pretty low.

But I agree that it's obvious that Gordon would have to be part of any trade. Frankly, except for salary considerations, he's the only core player (and i would include Noah and TT as core players) that should be included in the trade. Of course that means the trade can't be done without PJ Brown after the start of the season. 

Since it is very unlikely that the Bulls make a trade for Kobe, your hypothesis that the board's sanity will be compromised will be soon tested.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Do we collect Kobe as the final piece, or do we collect him as a piece that we'd still have to put parts around?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

McBulls said:


> Of all the reasons why Paxson should acquire Kobe, making the move in order to preserve this board's sanity must rank pretty low.


Unnecessary - KJ. Just like trading the Jefferson fans to the T'wolves' board was a priority for Celtics fans. :bsmile:



McBulls said:


> But I agree that it's obvious that Gordon would have to be part of any trade. Frankly, except for salary considerations, he's the only core player (and i would include Noah and TT as core players) that should be included in the trade. Of course that means the trade can't be done without PJ Brown after the start of the season.
> 
> Since it is very unlikely that the Bulls make a trade for Kobe, your hypothesis that the board's sanity will be compromised will be soon tested.


Gordon would be the greatest 1 guard to ever play in the tri, Phil would have to do a little jury-rigging to make it work, I can't even think of how it would. As for matching salaries, did the Bulls pull their QO for BBQ Sweets? If not, then including him means that the Bulls only need come up with $14-$15 million. It would be similar to Boston's Garnett trade (5 for 1 outside BBQ sweets). The other option is to make the trade large enough to accommodate Hinrich's BYC status, but that would have to wait for Nocioni to be tradeable. But something like Gordon, Sweetney, TT, Duhon, Sefalosha, and Khrappyer would work.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

ehmunro said:


> Unnecessary - KJ. Just like trading the Jefferson fans to the T'wolves' board was a priority for Celtics fans. :bsmile:
> 
> 
> 
> Gordon would be the greatest 1 guard to ever play in the tri, Phil would have to do a little jury-rigging to make it work, I can't even think of how it would. As for matching salaries, did the Bulls pull their QO for BBQ Sweets? If not, then including him means that the Bulls only need come up with $14-$15 million. It would be similar to Boston's Garnett trade (5 for 1 outside BBQ sweets). The other option is to make the trade large enough to accommodate Hinrich's BYC status, but that would have to wait for Nocioni to be tradeable. But something like Gordon, Sweetney, TT, Duhon, Sefalosha, and Khrappyer would work.


EDIT


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Oh, c'mon, like you're not all thinking that. :bsmile: (And that really doesn't rise to the level of "personal attack")


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

liekomgj4ck said:


> EDIT


Cut it out, please.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> I'm with dougthonus (and Salo?) on this one.
> 
> S&T PJ Brown solves the bulk of the salary difference / 125% rule issue.
> 
> ...


The way I figure, we've got 

Shaq for Butler (blue chip young SF), Odom (solid player) and a mid 1st
KG for Jefferson (blue chip young big), Green (high potential but not blue chip prospect anymore), Telfair (iffy prospect), two 1sts, one of which might be fairly high
I think Gordon qualifies as a blue chip type player at the level of Butler or Jefferson, but just barely. In the abstract, Butler is probably a better all-around player and Jefferson, being 6'10 and 260 and a scorer, probably gets the nod.

Thomas isn't a blue chip anything because he hasn't proved as much on the court. He's still a prospect IMO. I like him better as a prospect than Gerald Green though, so that's something.

But even adding our first, we probably need to make it a little more respectable for the lakers. My guess is Thabo (a solid, but not really tremendous looking prospect IMO) and a first is probably necessary to do that.

Certainly it's true the Lakers won't have a lot of room to negotiate, but that was true with Shaq and KG and their situations too. The Lakers will still have some room to negotiate, and I figure that's what they'd want and we can afford to give up. Well, we could probably afford to give up Noah too, but I'd really really hate that, and I'm sure Paxson would too. So I'm very skeptical that we'd do that.

The pick, however, is an obvious throw in. And Thabo, if we're bringing in Kobe and don't have to trade Duhon, doesn't make as much sense for us. Duhon instantly becomes more valuable playing next to Kobe, because his offensive issues are hidden. Really, going with Kirk/Kobe/Duhon looks very solid to me. And obviously we're very solid with Deng and Noc at the 3. So Thabo goes because he makes the Lakers feel somewhat better and losing him doesn't hurt our title chances one bit.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

MikeDC said:


> The way I figure, we've got
> Shaq for Butler (blue chip young SF), Odom (solid player) and a mid 1st
> KG for Jefferson (blue chip young big), Green (high potential but not blue chip prospect anymore), Telfair (iffy prospect), two 1sts, one of which might be fairly high
> I think Gordon qualifies as a blue chip type player at the level of Butler or Jefferson, but just barely. In the abstract, Butler is probably a better all-around player and Jefferson, being 6'10 and 260 and a scorer, probably gets the nod.
> ...


I think that's a good breakdown and pretty accurately sizes up the value of our players in the deal.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I disagree, the talent evaluation was horrible.

Ben Gordon is a 24 year old star level player that has led his team to the playoffs three straight years. No stars left in any of those other trades. Gordon is high above anything that left in those other trades.

Also, Caron Butler wasn't a blue chip prospect. Caron was coming off of a 9.2 PPG on 44.0 TS% year. Ben would be the same age as Butler when he got shipped out, he would be coming off of 21.4 PPG on 57.2 TS%. Ben averaged the same number of blocks, a tad less in steals, about double in assists, and about 1 less rebound per game. Butler had the health worries with his knees, Gordon is built like a tank. 

Gordon is clearly the best prospect to leave in the Shaq/KG/Carter/Iverson trade, and best player too.


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## McBulls (Apr 28, 2005)

MikeDC said:


> The way I figure, we've got
> 
> Shaq for Butler (blue chip young SF), Odom (solid player) and a mid 1st
> KG for Jefferson (blue chip young big), Green (high potential but not blue chip prospect anymore), Telfair (iffy prospect), two 1sts, one of which might be fairly high
> ...


A reasonable analysis for a normal trade. But I don't think either Shaq or Allen had the ability to veto a trade. But even in a normal trade i think you may be giving up a bit much.

Tyrus Thomas is a better prospect than either Green or Telfair and few GMs would trade him straight up to Odom. 

Sefolosha is a late lottery pick, and has some experience under his belt to boot. He's hardly a throw-in. 

The mid and late 1st round picks in the trades aren't worth much -- the latter maybe worth $3 million as Phoenix demonstrated.

Finally we have PJ Brown's contract, which represents major salary relief for LA; or at least major flexibility under the luxury tax level.

Altogether, I guess the wisdom of trading the assets you mention for Kobe would depend on what you thought of the potential improvement in Gordon and the certain improvement in Thomas's games might lead to. Two top prospects, a later lottery pick, a first round future draft pick and a ton of salary relief for a 29 year old superstar.

When you add the facts that Kobe has veto power over any trade, that he has a trade kicker in his gargantuan salary that will eliminate any salary flexibility the Bulls may have for a long time, that he is a mixed blessing at best from a marketing point of view, that he has been and continues to be a chronic discontent, and that he could walk away from the Bulls for nothing in return in two years I think your offer is way too generous. 

Gordon, Khryapa, Sefolosha, PJ Brown and a pick is a fair offer under the present circumstances.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

McBulls said:


> A reasonable analysis for a normal trade. But I don't think either Shaq or Allen had the ability to veto a trade. But even in a normal trade i think you may be giving up a bit much.
> 
> Tyrus Thomas is a better prospect than either Green or Telfair and few GMs would trade him straight up to Odom.
> 
> ...


No way the Lakers bite on that. I agree with Mike. Fair value seems to be a young, proven blue-chipper, a potential filled teenager, cap relief, and 1 or 2 1st round picks. I'd say Gordon, Thomas, P.J., and our 2008 1st plus filler would be enough. Although I'm sure if the Lakers said "we'll do that deal but you have to throw in Thabo" Paxson wouldn't even think twice about shipping Thabo off. I mean he did get schooled by Kobe in that TNT commercial.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

ehmunro said:


> I'd deal most anything for Kobe Tai. As for the Bulls, if only for the sanity of this board, Paxson should pull the trigger on Bryant and insist on the Lakers taking Gordon as part of any deal.


Not to nitpick but I really don't care for this sort of rhetoric because it makes it sound as though Pax has a good or at least reasonable offer on the table for Kobe and just needs to consent. On the contrary, all reports except the one by a poster on Real GM indicate that the Lakers have no intention of trading Kobe. That means either that he's simply not available or that it will take much, much more to pry him lose than with players like Shaq, AI, and KG, whose teams wanted to deal them.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

T.Shock said:


> No way the Lakers bite on that. I agree with Mike. Fair value seems to be a young, proven blue-chipper, a potential filled teenager, cap relief, and 1 or 2 1st round picks. I'd say Gordon, Thomas, P.J., and our 2008 1st plus filler would be enough. Although I'm sure if the Lakers said "we'll do that deal but you have to throw in Thabo" Paxson wouldn't even think twice about shipping Thabo off. I mean he did get schooled by Kobe in that TNT commercial.


I agree with your agreement of me! :yay:

But seriously McBulls, I don't think the no-trade clause amounts to much when it comes to guys like Shaq and KG and Kobe. I mean, what team in its right mind would take on a guy making $20M a year without first getting some sense (via agents or whatever) that the guy wanted to come to that team? That's the way it went down with both Shaq and KG, so I think they had de facto no-trade clauses just as real as the one written in Kobe's contract.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

Mebarak said:


> I disagree, the talent evaluation was horrible.
> 
> Ben Gordon is a 24 year old star level player that has led his team to the playoffs three straight years. No stars left in any of those other trades. Gordon is high above anything that left in those other trades.
> 
> ...


You make a good argument. I don't think GM's view Gordon's value any better than Al Jefferson's though. Young big and all. I also think Kobe is greater trade value at this point in his career than Shaq/KG/Iverson were(clearly all on the decline); also Carter (basket case when he was let go). 

Kobe is the best player in the game right now. That's worth more than a little something.


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

and all I'm going to do is point out that the rumor originating from the guy from the "other website" is to be taken with a huge grain of salt in the first place. This is the same guy who said a Lakers deal was going down before the draft, and it is also the same guy who "alerted" the masses that a deal apeasing Kobe was also about to go down after the draft. All according to his "inside source". Sadly for the Lakers, no movement. His credibility score is kaflooeeee

Hes all over the map guys. But have fun with it :cheers:


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

fleetwood macbull said:


> and all I'm going to do is point out that the rumor originating from the guy from the "other website" is to be taken with a huge grain of salt in the first place. This is the same guy who said a Lakers deal was going down before the draft, and it is also the same guy who "alerted" the masses that a deal apeasing Kobe was also about to go down after the draft. All according to his "inside source". Sadly for the Lakers, no movement. His credibility score is kaflooeeee
> 
> Hes all over the map guys. But have fun with it :cheers:


you tell us 7 pages into it, like thanks! :ttiwwp:


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

liekomgj4ck said:


> you tell us 7 pages into it, like thanks! :ttiwwp:


well, you all were having so much fun :yay:


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Fun is good.
:biggrin:


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

fleetwood macbull said:


> well, you all were having so much fun :yay:


Actually, the thought of Kobe coming here doesn't sound fun at all to me. I would keep an eye on the situation but if his superstar drama came out, meh, time for the Bears


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

FWIW



JohnGaltLSD said:


> Just letting you guys know that AM570 in LA reported today that sources are saying the Bulls and Lakers are talking about a deal involving Kobe.


----------



## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

Take it as a grain of salt, but some Lakers Fans interpreting this...

An interesting note -- Thomas has some value in the eyes of fans. Some fans prefer him and Deng vs Gordon and Deng.

http://www.clublakers.com/forums/am570-rumor-kobe-to-be-moved-t79906.html


> Money claims that he overheard a conversation. He says that a recent legal agreement is going to allow Kobe to "not participate in an advertisting campaign" that he was supposed to be a part of...
> 
> if and only if, Kobe "does not remain with his current team."
> 
> Money says he checked with a second source, and they don't believe anything is going on.


http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=45920


> So i got in my car this afternoon at around 4:30 and caught Matt Money Smith and Petros Papadakis in the middle of a Kobe discussion on AM 570. I didn't catch the whole thing so it's a bit unclear, but Money basically said he has sources that say the Lakers are now at least considering dealing Kobe to the Bulls, if they aren't already having trade discussions





> as a rule...do not believe anything you hear on AM570. nothing.
> 
> the reason is because they are never right about anything. furthermore, they are also monumentally ignorant when it comes to actual knowledge of the game, the league, or how anything works.
> 
> they're "personalities" who deal in absolutes, and their job is to entertain (though they don't) rather than inform.





> I heard the beginning of the discussion, but not the rest. Money said he heard from someone who was a credible source that a contract was being drawn up for a sponsor that had an unusual clause in it that would release the player and sponsor from obligations to each other in the event the player's services were no longer available to the team.
> 
> He interpreted this to mean this was preparation for a possible trade of Kobe.
> 
> ...


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Looks like Kobe's gone on hunger strike.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Well, Chicago bound!


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## laso (Jul 24, 2002)

I think a trade will eventually happen. It makes sense for the Lakers to do it before their back is against the wall. Sure, they could call Kobe's bluff but at best, they'll get a disatisfied player who will keep asking to be trade and will leave when he can opt out. If they do it now, they are guaranteed to get decent value. Gordon is a great scorer and a very exciting player. Thomas or Noah (I hope not both) are also interior players who can make a difference in their own way. In addition they may get a utility player and a veteran out of this. That's decent value.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

laso said:


> I think a trade will eventually happen. It makes sense for the Lakers to do it before their back is against the wall. Sure, they could call Kobe's bluff but at best, they'll get a disatisfied player who will keep asking to be trade and will leave when he can opt out. If they do it now, they are guaranteed to get decent value. Gordon is a great scorer and a very exciting player. Thomas or Noah (I hope not both) are also interior players who can make a difference in their own way. In addition they may get a utility player and a veteran out of this. That's decent value.


I kind of agree with that. I mean, it might not happen before the Lakers totally have their backs against the wall. Hell, it might take a whole year.

But I think it will happen because Kobe's not going to stand for treading water while the last good years of his career slip away, and because I think there's no realistic means I see of making the Lakers contenders. So, whether it's sooner or later, something's gonna have to give.


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

laso said:


> I think a trade will eventually happen. It makes sense for the Lakers to do it before their back is against the wall. Sure, they could call Kobe's bluff but at best, they'll get a disatisfied player who will keep asking to be trade and will leave when he can opt out. If they do it now, they are guaranteed to get decent value.


Isn't that what we said about Gasol? I think teams that play hardball usually win (I think Milwaukee with Yi will be the exception). The Lakers have so little to gain by trading Kobe. Because he's such a huge box office draw, they'll be getting .50 cents on the dollar at best. It almost makes more sense to play hardball and then if Kobe wins the battle of wills, accept .40 cents on the dollar a year later instead. Running out a team of Odom, Gordon, Tyrus, and Farmar isn't far from the worst case scenario for them.


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## fleetwood macbull (Jan 23, 2004)

JeremyB0001 said:


> Isn't that what we said about Gasol? I think teams that play hardball usually win (I think Milwaukee with Yi will be the exception). The Lakers have so little to gain by trading Kobe. Because he's such a huge box office draw, they'll be getting .50 cents on the dollar at best. It almost makes more sense to play hardball and then if Kobe wins the battle of wills, accept .40 cents on the dollar a year later instead. Running out a team of Odom, Gordon, Tyrus, and Farmar isn't far from the worst case scenario for them.


I respect what you're saying, and you could look at it all as getting corect value asset for asset. But one of the largest considerations in trading superstars is public relations, or the hit a team would take for trading a superstar no matter what the compensation. Sometimes public relations is the consideration that matters most in the end.....Kobe can scortch the earth and remove that usual impediment. BOx office draw or not, once you remove the scenario of actual fan outrage, trades can happen 

I believe the teams are talking, but not necesarily information from the sources we've been hearing from. But we can put 2 and 2 together without all that just from the journalists info we have, and Kobe's silence lately, that there is a serious dialogue. Kobe is being apeased somehow, either by the prospect of escape from LA or the prospect of getting help around him there

The Bulls are the team that has most of the leverage too imo, because they can win or without Kobe, and the Lakers may not be able to win with him


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

fleetwood macbull said:


> The Bulls are the team that has most of the leverage too imo, because they can win or without Kobe, and the Lakers may not be able to win with him


That's a damn good feeling too.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

MikeDC said:


> I kind of agree with that. I mean, it might not happen before the Lakers totally have their backs against the wall. Hell, it might take a whole year.
> 
> But I think it will happen because Kobe's not going to stand for treading water while the last good years of his career slip away, and because I think there's no realistic means I see of making the Lakers contenders. So, whether it's sooner or later, something's gonna have to give.



That's how I see it. It doesn't have to wait until it makes sense for the Lakers, as it did with KG in Minneapolis, because Kobe is going to make it happen; it's what I expect from him. (And a little piece of me will be disappointed in him if he doesn't.)


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## magohaydz (Dec 21, 2005)

it sure is (a damn good feeling that is), and I sincerely feel that we are going to bring home that Larry O'Brien trophy within the next 5 seasons, Kobe or no Kobe. It would be easier with him, judging that we dont lose too much in getting him. I would love to see Kobe in a Bulls uniform. I bet MJ would love to see Kobe take the reigns as well. It would seriously take us back to the status we had in the 90's, even if we dont win 6 rings! OK, maybe not quite the same status as the Air-era, but it would be the next best thing. Also, with a superstar like Kobe suiting up, you tend to draw more solid players who would be willing to take a bit of a pay cut in order to play for a serious contender. We are in the hot seat right now - the best position we have been in for almost 10 years.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

such sweet thunder said:


> That's how I see it. It doesn't have to wait until it makes sense for the Lakers, as it did with KG in Minneapolis, because Kobe is going to make it happen; it's what I expect from him. (And a little piece of me will be disappointed in him if he doesn't.)





magohaydz said:


> it sure is (a damn good feeling that is), and I sincerely feel that we are going to bring home that Larry O'Brien trophy within the next 5 seasons, Kobe or no Kobe. It would be easier with him, judging that we dont lose too much in getting him. I would love to see Kobe in a Bulls uniform. I bet MJ would love to see Kobe take the reigns as well. It would seriously take us back to the status we had in the 90's, even if we dont win 6 rings! OK, maybe not quite the same status as the Air-era, but it would be the next best thing. Also, with a superstar like Kobe suiting up, you tend to draw more solid players who would be willing to take a bit of a pay cut in order to play for a serious contender. We are in the hot seat right now - the best position we have been in for almost 10 years.


It's exactly how I feel. We are very well off, and I think we can get to the finals this year. I am expecting a Finals birth. I think we can win it in the next 2-3 years if our two young bigs pan out.

That said, bringing Kobe here at the right price would make it easier and would bring back the aura of the glory days. Not the same obviously, but the next best thing. 

This season needs to start soon. I'm pumped to see the Bulls, Kobe or no Kobe. But I'll admit, the Kobe drama will be going on all year and I'm gonna look forward to it.


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## laso (Jul 24, 2002)

Kobe really gives us what we need: a great scorer and a big guard. We already have a great scorer in Gordon, but he is somewhat of a liability defensively, especially when you have to play him with Hinrich. It's a fact, when both of these play, you immediately have a defensive mismatch: you have to put Kirk on the taller guard, and it can be very problematic. With Kobe in we would have a very good and good-sized backcourt defensively, and would allow Hinrich to play straight up.

Offensively, I think replacing Gordon's scoring is something that in general would be difficult to do, but with Kobe, you get one of the rare players who is even better than Gordon at scoring, so that would be a plus too.

I would feel pretty good about the rest of our rotation. I would love to see what Deng can do next to Kobe. Noce would keep being the spark off the bench, and I also feel pretty good about a frontcourt trio of Wallace, Smith and Tyrus Thomas or Joakim Noah.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

I dunno Kobe, there are alot of Hilton's here...


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## SausageKingofChicago (Feb 14, 2005)

Does anyone besides me think Ben Gordon and Lamar Odom would look terrific playing alongside each other ?

Odom needs the ball to be effective - some say too much . When he plays with a Kobe Bryant yeah its a problem 

But having Odom playing as a true point forward within the offense a pure scorer like Ben Gordon would flourish . Much in the same way I though Dejuan Wagner could have flourished if the Odom to Cavs trade way back when he was a Clipper hadn't have been butchered. 

If I am the Lakers I want to try and have Thabo added to Ben Gordon could potentially complete an awesome wing / post trio of Sefolosha, Gordon and Odom 

Fine. If they wanted Thabo then I want Javaris Crittenton

They obviously would want one of our young bigs back and I would guess that they probably want Joakim Noah over Tyrus Thomas. Noah would be the big personality they love in LA and he's a guy who could pull it off. Thomas is the superior talent ( I believe ) but Noah is the guy that is most ready now and has the temprement to add the showbiz BS that the LA crowds want

*

Bynum
Noah
Odom
Gordon
Sefolosha

*

Potentially a very good starting 5 that needs some veteran depth to support Cook, Walton, Vujacic and Farmar

From the Bulls point of view losing Gordon is fair enough but losing Noah and Sefolosha as well is the price to pay and still leaves us with 

*

Wallace
Thomas
Deng
Bryant
Hinrich

Gray
Smith
Nocioni
Davis*
Curry

*

Would probbaly dangle Crittenton with Duhon and Khyrappa and take a flyer on Ricky Davis for a season ( his is an expiring contract from the Wolves )

Would bring back Malik Allen and Randy Livingston as my 11th and 12th guys

Its a core 8 man rotation of the starting 5 plus Nocioni, Davis and Smith

Gray and Curry fill in the gaps but in turn are backed by the vets in Allen and Livingston if they don't get it done

That is a team that is capable of winning championships immediately and into the future with the future predicated on the quality of replacement we ultimately get for Ben Wallace in 2 seasons down the road


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## JeremyB0001 (Nov 17, 2003)

fleetwood macbull said:


> I respect what you're saying, and you could look at it all as getting corect value asset for asset. But one of the largest considerations in trading superstars is public relations, or the hit a team would take for trading a superstar no matter what the compensation. Sometimes public relations is the consideration that matters most in the end.....Kobe can scortch the earth and remove that usual impediment. BOx office draw or not, once you remove the scenario of actual fan outrage, trades can happen
> 
> I believe the teams are talking, but not necesarily information from the sources we've been hearing from. But we can put 2 and 2 together without all that just from the journalists info we have, and Kobe's silence lately, that there is a serious dialogue. Kobe is being apeased somehow, either by the prospect of escape from LA or the prospect of getting help around him there
> 
> The Bulls are the team that has most of the leverage too imo, because they can win or without Kobe, and the Lakers may not be able to win with him


I'm not sure that I understand why Kobe can make public relations a non-issue. Because he can throw a fit? It seems to me that any player is capable of that. I don't think that Kobe's ability to throw tantrums will make the fans alright with trading him. It certainly won't restore the $$$ they'll lose by parting with him.


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## theanimal23 (Mar 2, 2005)

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