# Your Top 10 NBA Players



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Based on this *entire* season and limited consideration to recent seasons. 

Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett 
Chris Paul
Dwyane Wade
Deron Williams
Yao Ming
Dwight Howard
Amare Stoudemire

So hard to leave Dirk off.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Is this about this past season or in general ?


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

> Based on this entire season and limited consideration to recent seasons.


So a little of both I suppose.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

How is Yao on the list then ? He has never won anything and missed so many games again last season, same with Dwyane Wade who is easily Top 10 when healty. Lebron and Chris Paul should be ahead of Kobe and you could also make a case for Pierce being more or just as important as KG. 

Dirk is also still in the Top 10, I mean he gets bashed for being a horrible defender when in fact he is mediocre, he has won more than most guys on this list and has had a Top 5 PER four straight seasons. He suffers from too high expectations as a former MVP and playing efficient rather than flashy, there is no evidence why he is not better than Yao, Howard and Amare to name a few. Would I rather have Howard or Amare ? Yes, but that is because of what I expect from them in the future, they have never been superior. And don't ever mention lack of toughness again, he has played through a high ankle sprain when others would have called it a season. 

He is taken for granted and gets bashed for too many things others and lesser players get away with because they are younger or more popular.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

First off, 4 years is a bit of a wide window. 2nd, I could care less about team success. This is about individual skill, talent and production...I don't know why people can ever stick with that.

Anyways, I think Dwight's surpassed Dirk without question at this point. He's a much better overall defender and rebounder, and he's good for 22 a night strictly from the post. I look at Dirk vs. Dwight as overall big men, and Dirk's defense slacks too much to be compared. 

And I think Amare's a better overrall player than Dirk. 

Offensively, He has a midrange shot, he can put the ball on the floor, has an assortment of quick moves in the post, and is getting better as a passer, that Phoenix system has helped him with that. 

People want to talk about Nash "feeding" him, but that argument was obsolete two years ago. He's crazy efficient, and he's probably the best in the league at absorbing contact and finishing. He can just plain score, and at a more consistent and efficient clip.

Amare's not a good defender, but he's better than people give him credit for. He doesn't really concentrate on rotations and positioning in the post, but his athleticism lets him come over for the helpside block more often than not. Overall, I'd say he's an average team defender, at least better than Dirk, who doesn't look very coordinated and can't always make the rotation quick enough. 

Amare's not a bad man defender, and he has a better frame than Dirk, so he's more effective defending big man.

And per Paul Pierce vs. KG..Paul might be as important to the Celtics philosiphy as KG, but he doesn't compare as a player. He's a complete offensive player, but once again, defensively is where the comparisions stop. Garnett is the anchor of that defense and offense. 

If it weren't for Garnett's presence, I doubt the Celtics would have ball movement and spacing as ingrained in their offense as it is now. That's a significant portion of what allowed Pierce to operate so effectively during the postseason. I won't say Pierce's production was a direct result of Garnett's presence, but he got a lot of spotup shots and free trips down the lane because of that offense.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Are we talking about the same players ? Amare has averaged 1.5 assists over the course of the season and he had two assists in the playoffs this year. No, not per game, in all five games combined. Same thing with Howard, he is by far the better rebounder and shotblocker and a bigger defensive presence, at the same time he isn't a defensive anchor yet, has to rely on his teammates to put him in a position to catch the ball, is still not a go-to-scorer and just as bad a passer as Amare. We are not talking about Shaq here. 

If you want to bring up who has the better skillset, this shouldn't even be a question. You are giving them too much credit for things that do not exist and I don't understand why. Take a look at their recent PERs (regular seasons, playoffs) and you will see that he is more efficient.



Dre™;5554319 said:


> First off, 4 years is a bit of a wide window. 2nd, I could care less about team success. This is about individual skill, talent and production...I don't know why people can ever stick with that.


I agree with that, if Brandon Bass is your second best player in the playoffs your team is not very good. 



Dre™;5554319 said:


> And per Paul Pierce vs. KG..Paul might be as important to the Celtics philosiphy as KG, but he doesn't compare as a player. He's a complete offensive player, but once again, defensively is where the comparisions stop. Garnett is the anchor of that defense and offense.
> 
> If it weren't for Garnett's presence, I doubt the Celtics would have ball movement and spacing as ingrained in their offense as it is now. That's a significant portion of what allowed Pierce to operate so effectively during the postseason. I won't say Pierce's production was a direct result of Garnett's presence, but he got a lot of spotup shots and free trips down the lane because of that offense.


Garnett is their defensive anchor, but Pierce played tremendous defense on Prince, Lebron and Kobe in the playoffs. Offensively it's not close because Garnett can't take over on that end and had to rely on Pierce (and Allen). Again, Garnett is no Duncan in that regard.


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## SlamJam (Nov 27, 2004)

1. lebron
2a. kobe
2b. paul
4. duncan
5. garnett
6. howard
7. amare
8. yao
9. dirk
10. wade

i have wade low because i don't think he's going to ever fully recover. and pierce is not in KG's league, stop with that garbage.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

croco said:


> Are we talking about the same players ? Amare has averaged 1.5 assists over the course of the season and he had two assists in the playoffs this year. No, not per game, in all five games combined.


I can't even explain that assist thing, but when I see Suns games, he made the pass to extend the offense a lot more than he once did. I don't think those numbers do justice to his passing ability.



> Same thing with Howard, he is by far the better rebounder and shotblocker and a bigger defensive presence, at the same time he isn't a defensive anchor yet, has to rely on his teammates to put him in a position to catch the ball, is still not a go-to-scorer and just as bad a passer as Amare. We are not talking about Shaq here.


I don't understand how he'd have to rely on teammates to position himself. Maybe to help find passing lanes, but at his size positioning is not an issue. What he does with the ball is the problem. He's still not coordinated enough to have any special post moves, but at this point he can physically impose himself and score on just about anyone in the league. He's not a go-to scorer, I never said he was, but 20 points on 60% is nothing to sneeze at.



> If you want to bring up who has the better skillset, this shouldn't even be a question. You are giving them too much credit for things that do not exist and I don't understand why. Take a look at their recent PERs (regular seasons, playoffs) and you will see that he is more efficient.


I have no idea what PER intels, but I see their field goal percentages, and I see his turnover average, 1.9 vs. Amare's, 2.5, and Dwight's, 2.9, and I don't see a huge difference. 



> Garnett is their defensive anchor, but Pierce played tremendous defense on Prince, Lebron and Kobe in the playoffs. Offensively it's not close because Garnett can't take over on that end and had to rely on Pierce (and Allen). Again, Garnett is no Duncan in that regard.


Yeah, Pierce did play good man defense, I'll give him that. And Garnett is capable of being a nightmare offensively, he's just too passive by nature. You could go with the rationale though that he knew he had two assassins on the perimeter against relatively weak perimeter defenses throughout the postseason. 

People use the argument that offensive players have to save themselves for offense, why can't it be the other way around?


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

1. Lebron James
2. Tim Duncan
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Chris Paul
6. Dwight Howard
7. Dwyane Wade
8. Dirk Nowitzki
9. Yao Ming
10. Steve Nash


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

PER is the most accurate measure of offensive efficiency we have right now because it includes hidden data like pace, usage rate and such. Look it up for detailed explanation, it's not perfect, but that's not possible anway. Normal stats from nba.com are too superficial.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

It'll be interesting in the end how many different players make peoples' lists. I don't see it being above 15 reasonable names.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

1. Kobe
2. CP3
3. LeBron
4. Duncan
5. KG
6. Pierce
7. Yao
8. Deron Williams
9. Dirk
10. Dwight

I would put wade at 6th or somewhere higher if he didn't have 60+ losts this season


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

1. Kobe
2. Garnett
3. LeBron
4. Duncan
5. CP3
6. D. Wade
7. Dwight Howard
8. Paul Pierce
9. Deron Williams
10. Steve Nash


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

Lebron
Kobe
CP3
Duncan
KG
T-Mac
Deron Williams
Dwight Howard
Yao
Pierce


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

1. LeBron James
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Chris Paul
4. Tim Duncan
5. Kevin Garnett
6. Dwight Howard
7. Paul Pierce
8. Deron Williams
9. Dirk Nowitzki
10. Steve Nash

We're talking this season, so you can't put Wade in there. He would normally be high up there, but he did miss a ton of games and look unspectacular for his standards.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

I must have missed the part when Dwight Howard become a dominant big man, right now he is a dominant rebounder.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

For the 07/08 season:

1. LeBron
2. Chris Paul
3. Kobe
4. Tim Duncan
5. Kevin Garnett
6. Dirk 
7. Deron Williams
8. Paul Pierce
9. Steve Nash
10. Amare Stoudamire


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Boston has two of the best seven players in the NBA?How many games did they lose in the postseason again?


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> Lebron
> Kobe
> CP3
> Duncan
> ...


Is this not in order or something because didn't you say yao is better than DWight?


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Diable said:


> Boston has two of the best seven players in the NBA?How many games did they lose in the postseason again?


10. All that matters is that they won the championship.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Marcus13 said:


> 1. Kobe
> 2. Garnett
> 3. LeBron
> 4. Duncan
> ...


What exactly did KG do to prove that hes better than Lebron, Duncan and Chris Paul? People knock Kobe for not taking over in the finals, but ignore KG's frequent choke jobs when the game was on the line?


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


> Is this not in order or something because didn't you say yao is better than DWight?


Only since it's based on this season since Yao missed so many games. If not I would have Yao in the top 5.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> Only since it's based on this season since Yao missed so many games. If not I would have Yao in the top 5.


IF it's based on this season, Yao shouldn't be in the top 10 and T-mac is not even a top 10 player anymore.


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## Vivaldi (Nov 12, 2006)

Pierce is not a top 10 player in the league, Not even close.

LeBron
Kobe
Paul
Duncan
Wade
Howard
KG
Amare
Derron
Tmac


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

LamarButler said:


> 1. LeBron James
> 2. Kobe Bryant
> 3. Chris Paul
> 4. Tim Duncan
> ...


:lol::lol::lol:


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

hmm Paul Pierce, a Finals MVP and also dominated the MVP in the finals

Top 10 to me.


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

LamarButler said:


> 10. All that matters is that they won the championship.


Bingo!


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## bball2223 (Jul 21, 2006)

aznzen said:


> :lol::lol::lol:


:laugh: Who would you rank over Pierce almighty aznzen?


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## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


> hmm Paul Pierce, a Finals MVP and also dominated the MVP in the finals
> 
> Top 10 to me.


im not laughing at paul pierce being in the list. but i just feel that he's not # 7. id put deron williams over him.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


> IF it's based on this season, Yao shouldn't be in the top 10 and T-mac is not even a top 10 player anymore.


So I guess its routine for players to lead banged up teams to 22 straight. Not to mention stepping up in the playoffs as usual and still making the All-NBA team...... again.


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

1. Duncan
2. Kobe
3. Lebron
4. Garnett
5. Deron Williams
6. CP3
7. Paul Pierce
8. Steve Nash
9. Dwight Howard
10. Dirk Nowitzki


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

Diable said:


> Boston has two of the best seven players in the NBA?How many games did they lose in the postseason again?


Last I heard, it just matters if you win the championship. Did your team win? Didn't think so.


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

Vivaldi said:


> Pierce is not a top 10 player in the league, Not even close.
> 
> LeBron
> Kobe


You're an *****. Pierce shut down both of these players on defense. Pierce also went off on Kobe.

Lebron and Pierce played each other evenly in the cleveland series with both shutting each other down until game 7 when both shot the lights out.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> So I guess its routine for players to lead banged up teams to 22 straight. Not to mention stepping up in the playoffs as usual and still making the All-NBA team...... again.


Leading 22 is a team accomplishment, it was 12 without Yao Ming and 10 w/o Yao Ming.

So T-Mac had most of the credit for the 10 games, but Rafer Alston had more to do with it, T-Mac did very poor in the playoffs as well, and Yao made the all-NBA team as well, but picking T-Mac is a very homer pick and i am a Rocket fan myself.


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


> Leading 22 is a team accomplishment, it was 12 without Yao Ming and 10 w/o Yao Ming.
> 
> So T-Mac had most of the credit for the 10 games, but Rafer Alston had more to do with it, T-Mac did very poor in the playoffs as well, and Yao made the all-NBA team as well, but picking T-Mac is a very homer pick and i am a Rocket fan myself.


27/8/7 - yeah he did pretty poor in the playoffs while being double and tripled all the time with nobody respectable to take attention away. I can't take you seriously anymore. I realized what happened in the 4th of the first two games but its nothing I didn't see coming when seeing the way he was carrying the load all game.

Though I do admit his shooting % esp FT were piss poor.


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> 27/8/7 - yeah he did pretty poor in the playoffs while being double and tripled all the time with nobody respectable to take attention away. I can't take you seriously anymore. I realized what happened in the 4th of the first two games but its nothing I didn't see coming when seeing the way he was carrying the load all game.
> 
> Though I do admit his shooting % esp FT were piss poor.


I believe he is a top 15 Player but not top 10, Pretty much the Top 10 players in the league either have gone out of the 1st round or have done extremely well in the 1st round, T-Mac did well in the games Alston was back and that one game where he blocking shots and scoring points but corrupted in the 4th.


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

croco said:


> at the same time he isn't a defensive anchor yet
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Roscoe Sheed (Jun 19, 2006)

Pierce has to be in the top 10 after these playoffs. People who say otherwise must be biased against the Celtics or jealous of them


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## Prolific Scorer (Dec 16, 2005)

*Paul
LeBron
Kobe
Howard
Wade
Deron 
Duncan
KG
Amare

Toss up for #10

This list isn't in Order either, just 10 players I feel are the best.*


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## The Solution (Jan 2, 2008)

As of this season

1.) Kobe Bryant
2.) Lebron James
3.) Chris Paul
4.) Tim Duncan
5.) Kevin Garnett
6.) Deron Williams
7.) Dwight Howard
8.) Paul Pierce
9.) Steve Nash
10.) Carmelo Anthony


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Prolific Scorer said:


> croco said:
> 
> 
> > at the same time he isn't a defensive anchor yet
> ...


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

Diable said:


> Boston has two of the best seven players in the NBA?How many games did they lose in the postseason again?


More wins than any other team


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

Drewbs said:


> What exactly did KG do to prove that hes better than Lebron, Duncan and Chris Paul? People knock Kobe for not taking over in the finals, but ignore KG's frequent choke jobs when the game was on the line?


I feel like he had a much better season then Duncan. And he's been in the league longer, so he doesn't have to prove that he's better than LeBron or CP3, They have to prove they are better than him. I don't see how they've proved that yet


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## K-Dub (Jun 26, 2005)

Chris Paul*
Kobe Bryant*
Lebron James*
Kevin Garnett*
Tim Duncan*
Dwight Howard
Dirk Nowitzki
Steve Nash
Amare Stoudemire
Deron Williams
Tracy McGrady
Paul Pierce
Dwyane Wade
Yao Ming

I feel like those with an * should be on everyone's list. They are unquestionably in the top 10. Everyone else can be left off for various reasons. For the most part these are the players that should be on any top 10 list. No mine is not in any order.


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## Vivaldi (Nov 12, 2006)

Any half good player could do what paul pierce did in this series having the players boston has.

Pierce is definitely not top 10. Maybe not even top 15.

Stop waiving that finals mvp **** in my face, Chauncy billups was a finals mvp.

Pierce is just a one-dimensional streaky jump-shooter.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Vivaldi said:


> Any half good player could do what paul pierce did in this series having the players boston has.
> 
> Pierce is definitely not top 10. Maybe not even top 15.
> 
> ...


LOL. Can't really take you seriously anymore.


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

Have you ever watched him play? He's one of the best defenders in the league and he's a SLASHER and a shooter, not a one-dimensional jump-shooter.


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## Vivaldi (Nov 12, 2006)

His defense is way overrated.


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

Vivaldi said:


> His defense is way overrated.


Wow you're mentally deficient. He just shut down Lebron and Kobe Bryant, the two best offensive players in the league.


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## LameR (Jan 4, 2004)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> So I guess its routine for players to lead banged up teams to 22 straight. Not to mention stepping up in the playoffs as usual and still making the All-NBA team...... again.


He had the 13th most votes for All-NBA, so I don't know why you're using that argument in a thread about the top 10 in the league.



Spaceman Spiff said:


> Though I do admit his shooting % esp FT were piss poor.


This is why he's on the outside looking in IMO. Shooting just under 42%? As the go-to guy for your team? When Kobe shoots 42% for a single game, the critics pile on him. T-Mac is a very good player, top-20 for sure, but not top 10.



Vivaldi said:


> His defense is way overrated.


I'd agree with this. He's a pretty good defender, but silverpaw, you really think *Paul Pierce is one of the best defenders in the league*? Come on man. You know that the Celtics worked as a unit to go after Kobe and LeBron. You know that their zone d collapsed 3, 4 and occasionally even 5 guys on Kobe whenever he'd try to drive. You can't just give all that credit to Paul Pierce. That was a team effort, and a good one.


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

I absolutely do believe that. Every team uses help defense on Kobe, yet only with Pierce leading the charge did we keep him to one uncontested jumper on the series.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Ray Allen guard Kobe more than Pierce did and so did James Posey.He probably guarded Kobe 15 minutes per night at most.At any rate Kobe stopped himself by never forcing the Celtics to do any of the things people are claiming they did.He simply wasn't agressive enough.

On the other hand Lebron beat Pierce consistently,but the Celtics packed the paint so that they always had two defenders waiting as soon as Lebron got by Pierce.Cleveland could have won that series easily if only their jumpshooters had hit shots in the games when they had oppurtunities to win in spite of getting nothing from the perimeter.Boston gave away the jumpshot to stop Lebron.He passed to wide open shooters and the only reason Cleveland didn't beat Boston was their inability to hit wide open jumpshots.It wasn't Pierce's defense by any stretch of the imagination.The C's were selling out on defense and they got away with it.

You guys can feel free to continue with the revisionist history if it makes you feel better though.Hey whatever gets you off.It's not like anyone else was watching.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

silverpaw1786 said:


> Wow you're mentally deficient. He just shut down Lebron and Kobe Bryant, the two best offensive players in the league.


What a coincidence that he's suddenly a good defender the year the Celtics as a whole turn into a defensive stalwart. Individual perimeter defense is the most overrated aspect of basketball and is insignificant in the context of a good defensive team.


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## mysterio (May 20, 2003)

Dirk
Bosh
Nash
Yao Ming
Garnett
Kaman
B Diddy
Josh Smith
Hedo
D Williams

EDIT: Oh, didn't realize what the OP was asking... in that case:

1) LeBron
2) CP3
3) Duncan
4) Kobe (would've been #1, but for his finals performance)
5) Garnett
6) D12
7) Yao
8) Dirk
9) Amare
10) Bosh


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

Diable said:


> Ray Allen guard Kobe more than Pierce did and so did James Posey.He probably guarded Kobe 15 minutes per night at most.At any rate Kobe stopped himself by never forcing the Celtics to do any of the things people are claiming they did.He simply wasn't agressive enough.
> 
> On the other hand Lebron beat Pierce consistently,but the Celtics packed the paint so that they always had two defenders waiting as soon as Lebron got by Pierce.Cleveland could have won that series easily if only their jumpshooters had hit shots in the games when they had oppurtunities to win in spite of getting nothing from the perimeter.Boston gave away the jumpshot to stop Lebron.He passed to wide open shooters and the only reason Cleveland didn't beat Boston was their inability to hit wide open jumpshots.It wasn't Pierce's defense by any stretch of the imagination.The C's were selling out on defense and they got away with it.
> 
> You guys can feel free to continue with the revisionist history if it makes you feel better though.Hey whatever gets you off.It's not like anyone else was watching.


Wow you didn't watch the playoffs did you? Allen/Pierce/Posey guarded Kobe for the first 3.5 games. Then it was all Pierce for the last 2.5 when he ate Kobe's lunch in games 4 and 6.


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## silverpaw1786 (Mar 11, 2004)

Drewbs said:


> What a coincidence that he's suddenly a good defender the year the Celtics as a whole turn into a defensive stalwart. Individual perimeter defense is the most overrated aspect of basketball and is insignificant in the context of a good defensive team.


He has always been a great defender. But he's been on a crappy team so noone seems to take notice.


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## K-Dub (Jun 26, 2005)

silverpaw1786 said:


> Wow you didn't watch the playoffs did you? Allen/Pierce/Posey guarded Kobe for the first 3.5 games. *Then it was all Pierce for the last 2.5* when he ate Kobe's lunch in games 4 and 6.


Umm..No. Pierce guarded Kobe for short stretches during the Finals. Most of the credit for shutting Kobe down needs to go to Ray Allen, James Posey, and most importantly Tom Thibodeau not Paul Pierce. Pierce has gotten FAR too much credit for the Celtics team D in the playoffs.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

Diable said:


> Ray Allen guard Kobe more than Pierce did and so did James Posey.He probably guarded Kobe 15 minutes per night at most.At any rate Kobe stopped himself by never forcing the Celtics to do any of the things people are claiming they did.He simply wasn't agressive enough.
> 
> On the other hand Lebron beat Pierce consistently,but the Celtics packed the paint so that they always had two defenders waiting as soon as Lebron got by Pierce.Cleveland could have won that series easily if only their jumpshooters had hit shots in the games when they had oppurtunities to win in spite of getting nothing from the perimeter.Boston gave away the jumpshot to stop Lebron.He passed to wide open shooters and the only reason Cleveland didn't beat Boston was their inability to hit wide open jumpshots.It wasn't Pierce's defense by any stretch of the imagination.The C's were selling out on defense and they got away with it.


First of all, Pierce was on LeBron way more than Posey, if you actually watched the series. Pierce was getting around 30 minutes guarding LeBron, and Posey 10. And really, did you watch the series, or did you just not watch, and assume that LeBron beat Pierce off the dribble every time cause he's way quicker than Pierce? Well, what really happened was, Pierce gave LeBron a few feet of cushion and forced LeBron to beat him with his jumpshot. Since Pierce was already in position to stop LeBron's drive, he drew tons of charges that series, cut off LeBron's drive, and did NOT let LeBron blow him by. Saying LeBron consistently blew him by is the furthest thing from the truth.


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

Dre™;5554319 said:


> Amare's not a good defender, but he's better than people give him credit for. He doesn't really concentrate on rotations and positioning in the post, but his athleticism lets him come over for the helpside block more often than not. Overall, I'd say he's an average team defender, at least better than Dirk, who doesn't look very coordinated and can't always make the rotation quick enough.
> 
> Amare's not a bad man defender, and he has a better frame than Dirk, so he's more effective defending big man.


I thought Amare started to improve as a defender after his first couple of years in the league, but watching him more this season it's clear he's still below average. He can block shots, but that doesn't make him a good team defender. As you said, he doesn't really concentrate on rotations or positioning in the post. But that isn't something that can be overlooked. It makes him massively flawed. Dirk is at least as good a defender, and might actually be marginally better. He at least knows where to be.

Dirk is also a much better passer. But Amare after the Break was amazing. He was very nearly as good as Dirk was a couple of years ago. Unless Dirk regains his form, Amare's the better player.


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## SlamJam (Nov 27, 2004)

:rofl: at pierce being a great defender


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

1. Kobe
2. LeBron
3. KG
4. Chris Paul
5. Tim Duncan
6. Dwight Howard
7. Yao Ming
8. Paul Pierce
9. Deron Williams
10. Tracy McGrady


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

1. LeBron
2. Kobe
3. Paul
4. Wade
5. Duncan
6. KG
7. D. Williams
8. Nash
9. Stoudemire
10. Howard

McGrady, Pierce, Nowitski, Iverson = tier 1 left off
Roy, Yao, Parker, Anthony, Bosh, Ginobili, and maybe Ray Allen = tier 2 left off

IMO


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett and Chris Paul have made everyone's list.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Steve Nash
Amare Stoudemire
Shawn Marion
Shaquille ONeal
Raja Bell
Grant Hill
Leandro Barbosa
Boris Diaw
DJ Strawberry
Earll Barron


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

1) Kobe
2) Lebron
3) Chris Paul
4) Tim Duncan
5) Garnett
6) Dwight Howard
7) Ming (assuming he's health)
8) Amare (assuming he is healthy)
9) Deron Williams
10) Dirk


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## tmacyaokobe1 (Jun 22, 2008)

If Yao Ming was healthy he should clearly be above Dwight Howard.


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

SlamJam said:


> :rofl: at pierce being a great defender


What else more can he do to prove himself, really? I mean, he did the best job you can possibly do on LeBron, he then went on to reduce Tayshaun Prince to a D-Leaguer, and then, in the times when he guarded Kobe in the Finals, he shut him down. He's been playing this kind of defense in the regular season too. Only one player has really gone off on him, and that is Jason Richardson. He can't do much else to prove himself, but you guys are too stuck going by false perceptions and not actually forming your opinions from watching games and seeing what players actually do.


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## The Solution (Jan 2, 2008)

LamarButler said:


> What else more can he do to prove himself, really? I mean, he did the best job you can possibly do on LeBron, he then went on to reduce Tayshaun Prince to a D-Leaguer, and then, in the times when he guarded Kobe in the Finals, he shut him down. He's been playing this kind of defense in the regular season too. Only one player has really gone off on him, and that is Jason Richardson. He can't do much else to prove himself, but you guys are too stuck going by false perceptions and not actually forming your opinions from watching games and seeing what players actually do.



Jason Richardson is the man lol


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

LeBron, Kobe, KG, Duncan and Chris Paul are locks.

Deron Williams and Dwight Howard are both semi-locks.

The rest is up to you. Yao should probably be there because Yao>Dwight!! True fact!


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Jesus Christ Dwight Howard is more overrated on this board than I thought.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

Drewbs said:


> Jesus Christ Dwight Howard is more overrated on this board than I thought.


I don't even want to know wjere he will be placed when he becomes dominant on both ends, 0 or -1 maybe ? Reading through the rankings you would think that he is just that already.


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## aussiestatman (Dec 12, 2006)

have they named the all-nba first and second teams yet?
who was on them last year?


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

tmacyaokobe1 said:


> If Yao Ming was healthy he should clearly be above Dwight Howard.


Are you the Point Forward guy?


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

aussiestatman said:


> have they named the all-nba first and second teams yet?
> who was on them last year?


According to the All-NBA Teams they would be...

Kobe
LeBron
Paul
KG
Dwight
Dirk
Duncan
Amare
Nash
Deron


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