# Did Jared Jefferies Make Ronaldo Expendable?



## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

I'm asking this question because I'm beginning to wonder whether Jared Jefferies has a role on this new team. He sucked under Isiah but obviously can play since we were not the only team that pursued him; our new system may give him an opportunity to highlight his particular abilities. I personally have always felt that the guy was a natural new-age 4 as opposed to a 3. At Indiana, I recall this being his position and him being considered a scoring threat (surprise, surprise) before having to be converted to the 3 due to his thin frame. With his athleticism and ball-handling abilities (mediocre but good enough for the 4 spot), I could definately see him developing a few go to moves facing the basket but being primarily a particularly useful garbage man. I have not really seen a mid-range jump shot from him, so who knows how effective he may be from this area. 

He has a very similar skillset to Balkman who was likely to be a backup 4 as well. I got to wonder whether the trade with the Nuggets was made to create a particular role for Jefferies and save a roster spot in the process.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

I believe that D'Antoni will use him in limited minutes at both PF and SF positions, but like Kitty posted in other thread ( http://www.basketballforum.com/new-york-knicks/408313-dantoni-balkman-trade.html ), D'Antoni said that the biggest bulk of Balkman playing time will be given to Chandler and Gallinari.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Very very true. I'd like to see him get some time at the 4 and 5 spots though to see what he really could do. Realistically Curry, Randolph and Lee could be gone within the next 2 years so maybe there might be some chance we see him get some consistent minutes to prove himself.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

Jefferies is the 10th or 11th man on the roster. He is not apart of a consistent 8-man rotation. Under coach Eddie Jordan he was used well to block Jamison oponents so Jamison could score or rebound. Jefferies was a help defender alongside of Larry Hughes and the two made each other look great on defense. 

As for Renaldo Balkman, I whole heartedly believe he forced the Knicks to trade him. Balkman had to be tired of the Head Coach Favoritism to poor performing players (Pet Players). He endured it for two seasons under Isiah Thomas Pet Players Q.Richardson, Jefferies, and Fred Jones repeated poor performances getting all the playingtime. 
And to watch the first game of the Summer League Game where all this special treatment and plays that were given to Gallinari poor performance his first 23 minutes on the court had to make Balkman sick. 
This was Balkman third time in the Summer League Games and he dont remember any of his teammates ever getting all the attention and special treatment that was given to Danilo Gallinari in that first game. 
*So Balkman pulled out of the rest of the SLG with injuries as if he was saying if you dont like it trade me.* 

To me Renaldo Balkman overall performance is better than Q.Richardson, Jefferies, Gallinari, and Chandler (that's my opinion). Balkman is not a scorer, but his performance alongside of "Chandler & Roberson" made it very easy for these guys to score without a problem. Without Balkman in the game Roberson was not able to score 21 points in any of the rest of the SL games. With Balkman in the game Roberson scored 21 points in the first half. 

I dont like Coach Karl, but Karl will give Balkman plenty of playingtime in Denver alongside of Scorers Iverson, Carmelo, JR Smith, and Kleiza this season. 
Balkman decision making on both ends of the court and passing skillz make him the superb player for Denver, because he is not looking to score but to pass to the open man.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

I never thought of it but you brought up an interesting point...Balkman may have wanted to be traded. It would make sense given what has transpired the past couple of years. 

I haven't really seen Roberson so I can't comment but that 21 point game was with Danilo playing as well, wasn't it?


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

dude balkman made a knicks color car, he didnt wanna be traded.

fact of the matter is, gallinari and chandler are gonna get his burn. then theres Q whos also gonna take minutes at the 3. balkman was expendable for this reason.

jared jeffries still sucks ***, but nobody wants him thats why hes still here


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

The True Essence said:


> dude balkman made a knicks color car, he didnt wanna be traded.
> 
> fact of the matter is, gallinari and chandler are gonna get his burn. then theres Q whos also gonna take minutes at the 3. balkman was expendable for this reason.
> 
> jared jeffries still sucks ***, but nobody wants him thats why hes still here


lol, I didn't know that about Balkman. I did hear from somebody that he was very much a club goer so I know that must hurt going to Denver.

I think Jared Jefferies just needs an opportunity and the proper coaching. He is a better player than he has shown. I'm not saying he's some star but I think in a running system where the emphasis on a power game is exchanged for length and skill (Jefferies' fortay) suits him much better than what he has played in, in the past.


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

Kiyaman said:


> Jefferies is the 10th or 11th man on the roster. He is not apart of a consistent 8-man rotation. Under coach Eddie Jordan he was used well to block Jamison oponents so Jamison could score or rebound. Jefferies was a help defender alongside of Larry Hughes and the two made each other look great on defense.


While it's true that Jeffries played alongside Hughes in 2004-05, Jeffries only started to stand out as a defender in 2005-2006. In his last season with the Wizards, he started at shooting guard alongside Butler and Jamison but usually took the toughest defensive assignment out of the 3. Jeffries would be a good glue guy on a playoff team but I don't see what role he can fill with in D'Antoni because he is one of the worst offensive players with no jump shot to speak of. 

Since Jeffries salary was much higher (and he has a trade kicker from my understanding), it made it harder to trade Jeffries and that's why the Knicks ended up trading Balkman.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

The True Essence said:


> dude balkman made a knicks color car, he didnt wanna be traded.
> 
> fact of the matter is, gallinari and chandler are gonna get his burn. then theres Q whos also gonna take minutes at the 3. balkman was expendable for this reason.
> 
> jared jeffries still sucks ***, but nobody wants him thats why hes still here



*Dude you're late, Balkman had that Car during the midseason games. 
Way before Donnie Walsh or D'Antoni was hired.* 
Who would have thought that the Knicks would draft another SF with their first round pick again after:
2005 SF-Lee
2006 SF-Balkman
2007 SF-Chandler
2008 SF-Gallinari 

All I'm saying is Balkman could not have been happy knowing that the Knicks took their Lottery 6th pick to select the Head Coach ex-players son (Gallinari), whom play at the same position as him. 
Especially when the Knicks have 4 SF under contract at that position before the draft, inwhich Balkman caliber of athletic talent is not a scorer and has the lowest paid contract at that position. 
So playingtime next season would be imposible for Balkman to receive over 2 high contract players, and 2 scoring lottery pick players at his position. 

*Balkman and his agent found and forced this trade to Denver, because if Walsh or D'Antoni had future plans of trading Balkman they would have did it on draft night or in the Clippers deal with Zach Randolph.* 

*P.S.* I doubt if Balkman want to be on the same team with Zach Randolph again, maybe Balkman was that so-call first round pick that a beat-writer said the Clippers wanted included in the deal. Who knows?


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Kiyaman said:


> *Dude you're late, Balkman had that Car during the midseason games.
> Way before Donnie Walsh or D'Antoni was hired.*
> Who would have thought that the Knicks would draft another SF with their first round pick again after:
> 2005 SF-Lee
> ...


If I recall correctly, that so-called first round pick was a future first round pick. If Walsh made that or any move that resembled that along with Randolph for a 2nd round pick, I'd be pissed because it would borderline on being retarded. Randolph is one of the best young prospects in the league. He does have his flaws but none of them (aside from off-court issues) that are necessarily fatal to developing his career. Pair him with a Patrick Ewing, who you think so highly of as a big man coach, and Randolph realistically could be a top 5 power-forward in the league.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

> Pair him (Zach) with a Patrick Ewing, who you think so highly of as a big man coach, and Randolph realistically could be a top 5 power-forward in the league.


After what we seen last season between Curry & Zach, the hiring of Patrick Ewing at the end of last season would've been the "BIG TALK" of the Knicks offseason. 



> Randolph is one of the best young prospects in the league.


That sentence would get you laughed out of any NBA Forum. Especially the Blazers Forums.



> If Walsh made that or any move that resembled that along with Randolph for a 2nd round pick, I'd be pissed because it would borderline on being retarded.


I guess the Portland Blazers $30 million buyout to get Zach Randolph off the team makes them candidates for a psycho institution. 

*What would you rather give up or find more value in?* 
A) $30 million dollars or 
B) future first round draft pick


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Kiyaman said:


> That sentence would get you laughed out of any NBA Forum. Especially the Blazers Forums.


This discussion about Randolph was had on the Blazers forum and there were Blazer fans that still seem to believe in him. In either case, the ones who do laugh are more likely to be the ones whose opinions don't matter as much to me to not be able to see how obviously talented the guy is; casual fans are usually the ones that write off Randolph. He has flaws but none that can't be corrected with the proper influences. Will he? Who knows but in either case what he does on the floor is very hard for any average player to do.





Kiyaman said:


> I guess the Portland Blazers $30 million buyout to get Zach Randolph off the team makes them candidates for a psycho institution.
> 
> *What would you rather give up or find more value in?*
> A) $30 million dollars or
> B) future first round draft pick


The Blazers got Channing Frye who was being mentioned as a serious candidate for ROY and in trade rumors for guys as good as Lamar Odom during his rookie season. He's had some bumps in the road during his second season but was still considered a good prospect big man that was a poor fit for his then current team.


And to answer your question, I take "B" over "A" any day of the week because "B (draft pick)" guarantees me a player. "A (cash)" only guarantees that the owner of my team is saving cash that he could be investing in his team.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

TwinkieFoot said:


> This discussion about Randolph was had on the Blazers forum and there were Blazer fans that still seem to believe in him. In either case, the ones who do laugh are more likely to be the ones whose opinions don't matter as much to me to not be able to see how obviously talented the guy is; casual fans are usually the ones that write off Randolph. He has flaws but none that can't be corrected with the proper influences. Will he? Who knows but in either case what he does on the floor is very hard for any average player to do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You got that one about 6.11 Channing Frye, the potential of Frye performance does implicate a long future NBA player. Especially with the right head coach and coaching staff and being around Bigman like Outlaw, Aldridge, and Pryz. 
Channing Frye played great alongside of every bigman the Knicks had except Curry. That is why coach Larry Brown made that public statement several times that C-Jackie Butler was better than Curry and James. 


$30 million dollars has proved to be the better of the lot in signing free agents, coaching staff, and waived experienced playoff veteran players when your team makes the postseason games. 
Future first round draft picks become a gamble to use if your team dont have a decent college scout, and with coach D'Antoni apart of the Knick future first round and second round picks should be sold. 
Both Phoenix G.M. seen that D'Antoni have know interest in coaching our young college players.


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

Kiyaman said:


> You got that one about 6.11 Channing Frye, the potential of Frye performance does implicate a long future NBA player. Especially with the right head coach and coaching staff and being around Bigman like Outlaw, Aldridge, and Pryz.
> Channing Frye played great alongside of every bigman the Knicks had except Curry. That is why coach Larry Brown made that public statement several times that C-Jackie Butler was better than Curry and James.


Frye didn't play well next to anybody his 2nd season with us. I think the result of that was one of 2 reasons. One explanation is that Isiah Thomas tried to make him something he is not (a low post player). The other reason could be that knee injury he suffered after his 1st season. There was a long time where he was not able to really train as a result of that and improve his game. When he was prepared to do so, he bulked up to an almost ridiculous proportion IMO (for a finesse player) which resulted in him losing his athleticism (key to his game) and lift for his jump shot (his best asset). I still assumed that if these two things were corrected that Frye would have been the same prospect he was the year before albiet not the franchise player or all-star people oddly attempted to make him. 




Kiyaman said:


> $30 million dollars has proved to be the better of the lot in signing free agents, coaching staff, and waived experienced playoff veteran players when your team makes the postseason games.
> Future first round draft picks become a gamble to use if your team dont have a decent college scout, and with coach D'Antoni apart of the Knick future first round and second round picks should be sold.
> Both Phoenix G.M. seen that D'Antoni have know interest in coaching our young college players.


What about if $30 million does not even put you below the cap, so you can't sign free agents? Kinda pointless from a fans perspective then ain't it? Coaches and execs could be signed without any sort of financial constraints imposed by the Collective Bargaining Agreement, so I feel the point is mute there.

The Knicks have drafted well in the past, so I see no reason why we should get rid of them. Isiah Thomas still appears to have some say in the organization since the drafting of Danilo Gallarni was supposedly supported by him. If this is the case, then I think we should actually look to acquire MORE draft picks as you yourself even lobbied for during the draft. Draft picks represent the quickest and best way IMO to build a team.

As for D'Antoni having no interest to coach our young college players, who do you explain starting a starting 5 of Steve Nash, Raja Bell, Grant Hill, Amare Stoudamire and Shaq? All those guys attended college in the United States. Even before the Shaq trade, their starting 5 consisted of an all U.S. college team with Marion in Shaq's place. The only 2 foreign players that have been apart of the Suns rotation has been Leandro Barbosa and Boris Diaw, so I hardly think D'Antoni discriminates against our college players.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Twinkie...*

"As for D'Antoni having no interest to coach our young college players, who do you explain starting a starting 5 of Steve Nash, Raja Bell, Grant Hill, Amare Stoudamire and Shaq? All those guys attended college in the United States. Even before the Shaq trade, their starting 5 consisted of an all U.S. college team with Marion in Shaq's place. The only 2 foreign players that have been apart of the Suns rotation has been Leandro Barbosa and Boris Diaw, so I hardly think D'Antoni discriminates against our college players."

I took this to mean that Kiyaman believes that D'Antoni has no interest in YOUNG college players...such as Chandler, et al., not ALL college players. I think he just wants players that know how to play. Gallinari instantly becomes the smartest player on the Knicks from a Ball IQ. Listen to him talk or read transcripts of his interviews and you can quickly see that he "gets it".


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

They are both expendable players. Balkman was traded because nobody would touch Jefferies's contract.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*Re: Twinkie...*



alphaorange said:


> "As for D'Antoni having no interest to coach our young college players, who do you explain starting a starting 5 of Steve Nash, Raja Bell, Grant Hill, Amare Stoudamire and Shaq? All those guys attended college in the United States. Even before the Shaq trade, their starting 5 consisted of an all U.S. college team with Marion in Shaq's place. The only 2 foreign players that have been apart of the Suns rotation has been Leandro Barbosa and Boris Diaw, so I hardly think D'Antoni discriminates against our college players."
> 
> I took this to mean that Kiyaman believes that D'Antoni has no interest in YOUNG college players...such as Chandler, et al., not ALL college players. I think he just wants players that know how to play. Gallinari instantly becomes the smartest player on the Knicks from a Ball IQ. Listen to him talk or read transcripts of his interviews and you can quickly see that he "gets it".



*I can see my response was read wrong about D.Antoni.* 

Since D'Antoni became a NBA Head Coach in 2003-4 to 2008, he only selected one player out of the draft Danilo Gallinari (in 4 drafts). 
That should say something about his evaluation of all the draft tryouts before draft night for the last 4 years. 
In the last 4 years I believe the Phoenix Suns finally used one of the 6 first round draft picks they had since the departure of coach D'Antoni. The Suns selected Rubin Lopez with the first round draft pick they got from Atlanta in the 2008 draft. 
Phoenix was a 29 Win team in the 2004 draft, plus they had the 39 win Knicks first round selection, and they traded both first round selections in the 2004 draft. 

After knowing this would I have let coach D'Antoni select the 6th pick of the draft if I was Walsh? 
*HELL to the NO!!!!!!* 
Especially, when he mentioned a 19 year old SF, and the Knicks roster have two young athletic hustling SF that was benched all season for two high price SF that have to be traded "Q.Rich & Jefferies". 
*A Extra HELL to the NO!!!*


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

*Re: Twinkie...*



Kiyaman said:


> *I can see my response was read wrong about D.Antoni.*
> 
> Since D'Antoni became a NBA Head Coach in 2003-4 to 2008, he only selected one player out of the draft Danilo Gallinari (in 4 drafts).
> That should say something about his evaluation of all the draft tryouts before draft night for the last 4 years.
> ...


Dude, the Suns have been one of the most fiscally frugal teams in the league for the past several years. They let Joe Johnson go, a borderline all-star- because they were not willing to match the money the Hawks were offering. They traded Kurt Thomas and two draft picks to attempt to get below the cap. They gave up an all-star and perhaps one of the best fits in the league for their offense with Shawn Marion in exchange for a more cap friendly Shaquille O'neal and freedom from Marcus Banks' contract. They let Tim Thomas go- who played great for them- and Eddie House who was Nash's best backup PG with the Suns to date. *Them dealing away their draft picks for similar cost cutting moves had nothing to do with D'Antoni as much as it did the Suns penny pinching every possible avenue.*


And once again, Gallanari is a 4 with us.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Twinkie...*



alphaorange said:


> "As for D'Antoni having no interest to coach our young college players, who do you explain starting a starting 5 of Steve Nash, Raja Bell, Grant Hill, Amare Stoudamire and Shaq? All those guys attended college in the United States.


Umm...Stoudemire was drafted out of high school....


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## TwinkieFoot (Jul 8, 2006)

*Re: Twinkie...*



Damian Necronamous said:


> Umm...Stoudemire was drafted out of high school....


That was a typo on my part. I thought he was insinuating that D'Antoni does not like playing players whose games were refined in the United States.


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## Shamrock32 (Jul 28, 2007)

Jared Jeffries, in my opinion, is not going to suddenly turn his career around. He is a wasted talent that cashed in on a contract year and never looked back. Even when taking the financial aspect out of it, I would rather have Balkman on my team than Jeffries. I didn't like the deal from New York's point of view. Sure it cuts a small salary, but Balkman was one of the only Knicks that actually worked hard on the floor at all times. I think he would been great in a Mike D'Antoni system.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*We may have a reality check in this trade of Balkman.

Early in the 2007-8 season:*
It was obvious by every Knick Fan that "Renaldo Balkman" defensive-hustle and rebounding should have started alongside of Curry & Zach. Another thing that was obvious to all Knick-Fans was the first three players off the bench should've been "Lee, Chandler, and Nate". Pet-Players Fred Jones, Jefferies, and Rose should've been garbage time players. 

Last season after the first 20 games the Knicks performance was so awful, especially after their fifth game by giving poor Miami Heat their first Win of the season the entire Knick Roster rebelled on the 6th game when Marbury made that return flight home. Isiah Thomas lost every player on the roster confidence in him. Q.Richardson cursed Isiah out while on the court for taking him out of a game, Zach Randolph did the samething, and both players actually DARED coach Isiah Thomas to take them out of the starting lineup or cut their playingtime when Isiah did nothing to Marbury about his return flight home. 

*Balkman proved in his Rookie Season that he was more than just NBA-Ready.* 
To bad for Balkman that Isiah signed a Pet Player Jared Jefferies to the MAX MLE to receive 30 mpg, plus Q.Richardson $8 million contract kept him as a Knick Starter. Both Jefferies & Q.Richardson performance did not match-up to the "Tazman Balkman" performance. Coach Isiah Thomas refuse to give Balkman consistent playingtime in a 8-man rotation to prove how well he could co-exist with at least 4 to 5 players in a rotation. 

Lucky for Balkman that Coach Karl will give him that oportunity in Denver. Balkman reminds me of Rookie Richard Jefferson when he had no jumpshot at all, but Jefferson hooked up with Kenyon Martin and history lead the two players to two Finals. Will Carmelo Anthony become the Franchise 22 points per game KVH the team trades after one season if K-Mart & Balkman chemistry mix to win alot of games in the 2008-9 season? 
*Anything could happen when you have Iverson on your team!!!*


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Uh.........no*

You may be the only person in the world that thinks Balkman's game resembles Jefferson's in any way. Balkman did well in his first season because he was largely unknown and not respected as a player. Teams made adjustments his second year while he added nothing new to his already limited game. Its his own fault, not anyone else's. If you are suggesting in ANY way he should play in front of Gallinari, hell, I can't even respond to that. Balkman was an energizer who was over-rated as a defender, and a guy that brought very little to the table offensively. Expendable. Besides any player that has nearly zero offensive skills makes it possible to essentially play 5 on 4 defensively. Rodman was the only guy that made that realistic, and he was much better boarding (especially offensively) and was an all world defender.

I can't even believe for a second you seriously thought this team would be turned around this year...regardless of coach and GM selections. Its going to take a couple of years, at least. Sit back, chill, and enjoy the evolution of the "new" New York knicks.


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