# Game Thread: POR @ PHO



## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

The Portland Trail Blazers visit the Phoenix Suns tonight in a match up that heavily favors the home squad. However, with the new run and gun offense that interim coach Kevin Pritchard has installed, look for fun up-tempo game featuring our young core.

6:00 p.m. Pacific Time on Fox Sports Northwest. It'll be interesting.


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## keebs3 (Feb 19, 2004)

I sure don't expect a win, but it should be a fun game to watch! Does anyone know if Zach will return? Same starting lineup?

JMK
GO BLAZERS!


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

keebs3 said:


> I sure don't expect a win, but it should be a fun game to watch! Does anyone know if Zach will return? Same starting lineup?
> 
> JMK
> GO BLAZERS!


From what I understand, Zach is going to be sitting for awhile with that bad knee, Portland is once again showcasing Rahim to peak interest for the offseason. I think that this game is going to be very fun to watch and VK and TO should see some more minutes tonight. :yes:


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## keebs3 (Feb 19, 2004)

HOWIE said:


> From what I understand, Zach is going to be sitting for awhile with that bad knee, Portland is once again showcasing Rahim to peak interest for the offseason. I think that this game is going to be very fun to watch and VK and TO should see some more minutes tonight. :yes:



Yeah, too bad that showcasing Rahim will just do it to the wrong crowd. He will likely play so well that Blazer fans will want to keep him and give Zach the boot. Then if we play Zach the same thing will happen and Rahim will need to go. The sad part is Blazer fans will want to keep both these guys, and whoever we get for either of them won't be good enough.. or so I suspect. 

JMK


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

What Portland down by 20 and the game hasn't even started yet? :biggrin: 

Just kidding!


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

Damon shoots and misses

Miles shoots and hits

SAR shoots and hits

Would seem to lead to a logical conclusion. Any bets that Damon takes more shots than the starting forwards?


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

Nash - 5 minutes, 2 assists, 1-1 from the field

Telfair - 5 minutes, 2 assists, 1-1 from the field


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

Storyteller said:


> Nash - 5 minutes, 2 assists, 1-1 from the field
> 
> Telfair - 5 minutes, 2 assists, 1-1 from the field


 :biggrin: I see where you're going!


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

Shareef if playin' some good offense, but laggin' on defense and the boards.


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## 4-For-Snapper (Jan 1, 2003)

CanJohno said:


> :biggrin: I see where you're going!



Bassy for MVP?

:whoknows:


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

CanJohno said:


> Shareef if playin' some good offense, but laggin' on defense and the boards.


 3 boards in 9 minutes isn't what I call laggin'. But yes, it'd be nice to see Marion with 0 points.


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

The backcourt blunders continue...


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

Not a good start for Frahm.....


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

Nick and Richie are manning the backcourt right now - and shooting the Blazers out of the game. 0-6 and counting....


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

Storyteller said:


> 3 boards in 9 minutes isn't what I call laggin'. But yes, it'd be nice to see Marion with 0 points.


Umm, it's not just what the box score says, I'm talking about on specific plays where he's been getting out-hustled to get to loose balls in the paint. He's had "the inside position" numerous times tonight on the defensive boards, yet Phoenix got at least three hoops.

In other news: Ha has entered the game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Kekai (Jan 12, 2005)

Hey the Korean guy is in. Does he play a lot?


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

CanJohno said:


> In other news: Ha has entered the game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Nice to see, but 2 turnovers in a minute. :nonono:

Thanks for the explanation on SAR. It's nice to have insight from someone actually watching the game.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

Ha rarely ever plays... I think he has about 5 minutes in his pro career thus far.

Oh yeah, if for some reason Nick is here next year... I will be one very unhappy Blazer fan.


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

I think this is Ha Seung-Jin's (a.k.a. "The Korean Guy") fourth game as a Trail Blazer and has probably only played a total of 5 or 10 minutes.


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

Weak foul calls all over the place... :curse:


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## Storyteller (Dec 31, 2002)

3 assists on 12 makes 

vs.

9 assists on 16 makes


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

CanJohno said:


> Weak foul calls all over the place... :curse:


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

13 T.O's for the blazers so far....yuck, bad pass by Telfair led to a Phoenix 3. 

They're killin us from outside., :curse:


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

Another Telfair bad pass.

 

Live and let die though.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

JJ 3
Matrix 3


DE-FENSE!

:curse: 


SARs with 19/9 in the first half....WOW.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

3's killin us...down23.


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

If we could just get a "real" SG...! *SIGH!!!!!!*


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## 4-For-Snapper (Jan 1, 2003)

Sebastian needs to realize that he has the _potential_ to be great. He's not there yet. He needs to pass first, shoot second.

In other news, I will not be watching the 2nd half. I'll just read up on it in the Register Guard tomorrow.

Who knew that the Blazers could get so frustrating. I mean, at least when we had a team of "questionable" character we were winning games. :nonono:


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

keebs3 said:


> Yeah, too bad that showcasing Rahim will just do it to the wrong crowd. He will likely play so well that Blazer fans will want to keep him and give Zach the boot.
> JMK


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

4-For-Snapper said:


> Sebastian needs to realize that he has the _potential_ to be great. He's not there yet. He needs to pass first, shoot second.


What are you talking about? He's only taken 4 shots, one of them was against the shot clock and another was a fast break lay in. If anything, he's forcing too many passes when he should be driving to the hoop.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

Fork said:


> What are you talking about? He's only taken 4 shots, one of them was against the shot clock and another was a fast break lay in. If anything, he's forcing too many passes when he should be driving to the hoop.


Yeah, he looks a little reticent.....like he doesn't BELIEVE he's the point guard right now....


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## 4-For-Snapper (Jan 1, 2003)

Fork said:


> What are you talking about?



What am I talking about? Can't you read?

He may only have 4 shots in the box score, but if you're watching, you'll notice that most of his TOs have come when it was obvious he was trying to create for himself.


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

Fork said:


> What are you talking about? He's only taken 4 shots, one of them was against the shot clock and another was a fast break lay in. If anything, he's forcing too many passes when he should be driving to the hoop.


:yes: He needs to learn to look to penetrate, and if he is open take it, if not dish it off. Good to see Ha playing.

Also SAR is tearing it up with 20/10 at halftime.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

4-For-Snapper said:


> What am I talking about? Can't you read?
> 
> He may only have 4 shots in the box score, but if you're watching, you'll notice that most of his TOs have come when it was obvious he was trying to create for himself.


Wrong. Three of them were from forcing a pass into a guy who was not quite open. One, he forced an attack for himself and turned it over.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

We are still shooting .500 though and .800 FT%

bad .200 3FG%

last night we did well shooting too... tonight so far we have 14 TO's.... ouchie!!!!


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## BlayZa (Dec 31, 2002)

how many games before Telfairs halo slips and Blazer fingerpointing starts?

Its not hard to see that everyone is pinning a lot of hope on this kid , and honestly at his age and level its unfair to have that mantle - to attain the level that people in this forum believe he will end up at is a huge longshot , upside included. The names he gets compared to are elite players with proven careers I think if he gets to that level we can all consider ourselves *extremely* lucky BUT just be prepared for when he more than likely becomes a decent starter. I just cant odds on say he is going to be a superstar or believe he is even enough along the path to being mentioned in the same breath as some of his *contemporaries* . 

dont get me wrong , i hope he is everything everyone hopes for - but damn peeps , hows it feel to have all the hopes and dreams of a franchises fanbase holding you as the saviour? maybe he should talk to Zach , Damon , Sheed , Miles etc , all have worn it in the past and been marginalised by performance.


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

Damon WILL NOT pass the ball to Viktor. I haven't seen him do it yet!


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

CanJohno said:


> Damon WILL NOT pass the ball to Viktor. I haven't seen him do it yet!


Niether will NVE, he had Vik going backdoor and coulda lobbed it up, but he just kept dribbling and shot it. Nick doesn't pass to any young players other then Telfair. He doesn't like young players at all. :no:


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## basketballrusty (Mar 4, 2003)

This is great basketball from the Blazers, I hope all you Mo haters are happy. I thought I'd never see the day the franchise was so pitiful. I hope our last coach is sitting in front of his tv, packing his stuff, and laughing his butt off.


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## alext42083 (Nov 7, 2003)

Phoenix is just relentless with their attack... it's incredible. 

And someone on offense not named Damon, please touch the ball. No one other than Damon or Telfair is even getting a whiff of the ball. Get it to Viktor or Outlaw, just one time.


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

basketballrusty said:


> This is great basketball from the Blazers, I hope all you Mo haters are happy. I thought I'd never see the day the franchise was so pitiful. I hope our last coach is sitting in front of his tv, packing his stuff, and laughing his butt off.


I am very happy. Mo was a horrible coach. You think this team under Mo would have done much better? I think not, I'd rather see Telfair play 20-30 min. a game then see Damon and Nick play 40mpg and huck up airballs.


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## furball (Jul 25, 2004)

Is the Richie Frahm experiement over yet? This guy cannot shoot a lick. And for you old timers, doesnt Kryhapa remind you of Fred Roberts of the old Celtics?


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

Damn..Frahm sucks horribly, and too think that TO could have his PT. :no:


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

Blazer Freak said:


> Damn..Frahm sucks horribly, and too think that TO could have his PT. :no:


Honestly, I'd rather they just cut him and call up Carl English from the NBDL. Now that guy can shoot the basketball!


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

Looks like Telfair will break both his career highs of points(14) and assists(6).

BTW PM to join the exclusive Bassy club..


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## alext42083 (Nov 7, 2003)

How Richie scored 31 points in an NBA game is beyond me..


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

Blazer Freak said:


> Looks like Telfair will break both his career highs of points(14) and assists(6).
> 
> BTW PM to join the exclusive Bassy club..


He had 23 against Charlotte.


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

furball said:


> And for you old timers, doesnt Kryhapa remind you of Fred Roberts of the old Celtics?


Ye Gods, I hope not! That was one UGLY man.


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## basketballrusty (Mar 4, 2003)

Blazer Freak said:


> I am very happy. Mo was a horrible coach. You think this team under Mo would have done much better? I think not, I'd rather see Telfair play 20-30 min. a game then see Damon and Nick play 40mpg and huck up airballs.


The veteran guards kept us close in many games this year. If you want Telfair to play all night then get someone to catch his passes. Teach him to shoot...what does he do all day? Write books?


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

Khryapa looks like a stiff...airball the 3!

SeaBass with 18 points!!!!!

Outlaw is FAST.


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

Ladies and gentleman, we have a Paul Shirley sighting! :clap:


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## Backboard Cam (Apr 29, 2003)

116 points for the Blazers, season high.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

FRAHM w/ the Monster Dunk :clap:


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

37min : *18 pts 7 assists 53 fg%*

Good game for Sebastian!


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> Khryapa looks like a stiff...airball the 3!


Uh oh, he airballed a 3! That automatically makes him a stiff, this was his first NBA game in which he actually played some meaningful minutes....Give him a little more time before you call him a stiff.....I think next year him and Monia will feed off each other..hopefully...


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

zagsfan20 said:


> Uh oh, he airballed a 3! That automatically makes him a stiff, this was his first NBA game in which he actually played some meaningful minutes....Give him a little more time before you call him a stiff.....I think next year him and Monia will feed off each other..hopefully...


Didn't see the defensive intensity or particular quickness...he does look pretty strong though. Just looked a bit out of place..hopefully he's get into the flow before the end of the year...things are looking up.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Damn some of you please chill out. Who cares if we win or lose right now. We get killed by Phoenix no matte rhow is our coach,they just have our number. I saw the 2nd half and Bassy and Outlaw look excellent. Bassy runnin the show is poetry in motion, and watch out, his jumper looks FLAWLESS. Outlaw is also nailing some nice J's. O and Miles' dunk.....HOLY HELL ! I could have cared less if we won or lost, I came to watch the young guys and they impressed. Our season is done so I just want to see growth and maturation from some of the fellahs. If Pritch keeps playing them, we will see huge improvements. I think it is quite obvious we'll need a Damon Jones-esque backup pg for next year. Damon and NVE should find new homes to help out some other teams. They aren't guys you ride to the playoffs, they are role players that can bring teams over the hump. We should really look at starting Outlaw the rest of the way at the 2, he could be the answer there, because we need a legit 2. Theo is showing his age, if we could somehow get Bogut...man that would help out so much. The future is bright folks, in short time we'll be in the playoffs. Just relax.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

QRICH said:


> 37min : *18 pts 7 assists 53 fg%*
> 
> Good game for Sebastian!


 If we would have started the whole season, he'd have gave Gordon a run for the ROY.


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## KIDBLAZE (Jul 8, 2003)

MAS RipCity said:


> Damn some of you please chill out. Who cares if we win or lose right now. We get killed by Phoenix no matte rhow is our coach,they just have our number. I saw the 2nd half and Bassy and Outlaw look excellent. Bassy runnin the show is poetry in motion, and watch out, his jumper looks FLAWLESS. Outlaw is also nailing some nice J's. O and Miles' dunk.....HOLY HELL ! I could have cared less if we won or lost, I came to watch the young guys and they impressed. Our season is done so I just want to see growth and maturation from some of the fellahs. If Pritch keeps playing them, we will see huge improvements. I think it is quite obvious we'll need a Damon Jones-esque backup pg for next year. Damon and NVE should find new homes to help out some other teams. They aren't guys you ride to the playoffs, they are role players that can bring teams over the hump. We should really look at starting Outlaw the rest of the way at the 2, he could be the answer there, because we need a legit 2. Theo is showing his age, if we could somehow get Bogut...man that would help out so much. The future is bright folks, in short time we'll be in the playoffs. Just relax.


Couldn't agree more. and just to look on the bright sight of this dying by the day season the more we lose the more chance we get a top 3 pic :biggrin:


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## CelticPagan (Aug 23, 2004)

Vicktor even admits the injury is still bothering him. He doesn't have his athletisism back yet. However, right now I'm not thinking he has much of a future with the team considering we have Miles and Outlaw.

I still have high hopes for Monia.

Richie Frahm is a waste of a roster space. He looks pretty tenative, and is not a very good outside shooter.


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## Hype #9 (Feb 14, 2004)

For the record, I'm all for the Mo firing, and playing the young guys whether we win or lose. Reality is, we weren't going anywhere, but to the lottery with Mo as coach and the vets getting all the mins.

For people that are against the young guys getting playing time, use some common sense. We will lose games. These guys are young, and will make mistakes, but they'll also learn and get better. I would much rather watch games like last night and tonight, than to watch Mo's slow, inempt offense, and the vets clanging up shot after shot.

The positives for tonight:
*Telfair: 37 mins, 8-15 shooting, 18 points, 7 assists and 3 steals. (14 pts, 5 assists, 0 turnovers in the 2nd half)
*Outlaw: 17 mins, 5-9 shooting, 12 points, 3 boards. His shot is pure.
*Victor: with 6 boards.


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

I've been reading all of your posts over the months and I haven't posted, as I said I wouldn't. But, being that Reef is the starting PF for the forseeable future and none of the trades went down ... I guess I am stuck here for a while.

This is my take:

The youth movement thing is awful. 
*Telfair is okay, and has occationally flashes, but he doesn't need to be in an "under-six-feet-tall" backcourt. He's the bright spot, but it isn't that bright. He got some points tonight, but they were in garbage time. He forces a lot of things. But, you can definitely see the game is slowing down for him. 
*The Russian kid can flat out FLY. He seems well schooled in fundamentals and wasn't dominating the ball (of course who can dominate the ball with Stoudamire/Telfair as your backcourt?) I need to see more.
*Ha is a joke. That guy looks like a ********* (or however you spell it). His moves are slow and predictable. He doesn't know how to use his height. His footwork is among the worst I've seen for big men. He is NOT ready for this level, and probably will never be.

Everyone wants to "play the young kids" they'll get better, blah, blah, blah. Crap in, crap out. Most of these guys won't make next year's roster and had a tough time making this year's. Be honest with yourself - every draft pick isn't a go. Period. 

The management is so inept in Portland that you can't honestly believe they draft 100%?!

Then we get into the worst signings in recent history:

You've got Miles. He is still a goof. He's played better and more under control, but overall ... if he isn't running the floor at mach 90, he's worthless. He's got TERRIBLE shot selection. I know a lot of you are convinced that when he starts he's going to be the man, but I just don't buy it. He is who he is ... and he has a terrible work ethic. That doesn't translate into consistancy. His defense is really subpar. He's great on the help-side, but that makes him easy to exploit as the Suns did tonight.

Randolph ... argh ... going back to an earlier analysis of him that I did last year ... he's a bull in a china shop. Once you take that away, he's all but out of the game. Teams a learning how to do this. I said they would and his scoring would go down. It has. (granted so has his minutes and such) But, he isn't the guy to put the franchise tag on.

Theo ... dear god. How far he has fallen! Even if he was putting up last year's numbers - it wasn't a good move.

Then move to these remaining guys:

Damon - ICK! That's all one can say. Tonight, he was so proud of himself for making all those shots when the game was out of contention. Go Damon! You rock. He dominates the ball like Iverson ... it's awful. Miles and Reef have been all but unstoppable the last two games ... but Damon still thinks he is the man.

Reef continues to be all that he can be and continues to be the Blazer's best/most consistant player. He looks winded during games, and isn't hustling as hard as I know he can on defense. Is he tired or just fed up or is he still rusty after 31 games off? 

Play.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

He'sssss back! Reef looked good and has been, you're right..most consistent. But if we're doing our core and brining them up, I prefer the age range of Zach so that in 3-4 years, the team will be more in sync.


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

Xericx said:


> He'sssss back! Reef looked good and has been, you're right..most consistent. But if we're doing our core and brining them up, I prefer the age range of Zach so that in 3-4 years, the team will be more in sync.


Except, as you will soon learn, that age doesn't translate into being in-sync. Zach is who Zach is. His game and ego don't allow him to adapt to any other playing style.

In truth, most of these guys won't be with the team in 3-4 years. 

Play.


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

Everyone here that is upset with the loss or saying it was unavoidable ... it wasn't.

The real issue was that we tried to run with the best running team in the game. We tried to play up-tempo with a team that thrives on it.

THAT is the reason we lost.

This style of basketball is terrible.

Play.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

Playmaker0017 said:


> Except, as you will soon learn, that age doesn't translate into being in-sync. Zach is who Zach is. His game and ego don't allow him to adapt to any other playing style.
> 
> In truth, most of these guys won't be with the team in 3-4 years.
> 
> Play.


True, Zach hit a rock this season. I'm reserving judgement until the real cancer (STOUDAMIRE) is gone from the blazers. The ball movement will change greatly IMO. Telfair will likely improve into a starting quality PF, Zach will be the focus of the team and will learn to play well within the offense. 

Get the young guys PT, and see what they can do rather than watching them get sparse minutes and immediately rejecting them.


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## Focus (Feb 13, 2004)

Welcome back Play :banana: :banana: :cheers:


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> *Telfair is okay, and has occationally flashes, but he doesn't need to be in an "under-six-feet-tall" backcourt. He's the bright spot, but it isn't that bright. He got some points tonight, but they were in garbage time. He forces a lot of things. But, you can definitely see the game is slowing down for him.


What do you realistically expect from a 19 year old rookie getting his first significant minutes....Its very seldom that even a rookie PG out of college come into the NBA and contributes significally....So far Telfair is playing better then Steve Nash did his rookie year and Nash had 4 years of college experience...I dont think its fair to make judgment on a player that is so young and just finally getting a chance to play...I think he is making strides on his jumpshot...



> *The Russian kid can flat out FLY. He seems well schooled in fundamentals and wasn't dominating the ball (of course who can dominate the ball with Stoudamire/Telfair as your backcourt?) I need to see more.


Its almost like Damon and Van Exel make it a point to keep him out of the offense...I never see the point guards try and spread out the ball to Viktor or even kick it his way when he is wide for the 3.....He made some silly fouls tonight...



> *Ha is a joke. That guy looks like a ********* (or however you spell it). His moves are slow and predictable. He doesn't know how to use his height. His footwork is among the worst I've seen for big men. He is NOT ready for this level, and probably will never be.


Agreed 100%.....But what do you really expect out of a deep 2nd round pick?....

You neglected to mention Outlaw who was one of the bright spots in todays loss.....



> Everyone wants to "play the young kids" they'll get better, blah, blah, blah. Crap in, crap out. Most of these guys won't make next year's roster and had a tough time making this year's. Be honest with yourself - every draft pick isn't a go. Period.


Why not play the young kids? what have the veterans done this season?....Our two other losses to Phoenix were worse then this one, and we played our veterans....

This summer will be a measuring point for whether Nash is a success or failure as a GM....I would say that so far he has been a failure...


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Good grief, now I have to read more posts about how Telfair will never amount ti anything and how Darius Miles is the worst player of all-time.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

MAS RipCity said:


> Good grief, now I have to read more posts about how Telfair will never amount ti anything and how Darius Miles is the worst player of all-time.



:laugh: 

It is amazing to me that Telfair even now is such a polarizing force....people either love him or hate him...I don't get it.....a 19yr old kid just started and played 37min and had 18pts and 7 assists, and you want to label that as a negative? 

I was thinking last night, that if Telfair averaged 10 & 6 as a HS rookie, I would classify that as a heck of good season for him.....But some people here won't lay off this kid until he is averaging 20pts and 10assists?

Seriously, what does he have to do to meet with your approval?

He scored, he passed, he played good defense, he hustled...what didn't he do?

He had turnovers? Heck most 4yr college players struggle with the same things Telfair is...shooting percentage and turnovers.....I don't see why some of you expect Telfair to be any different....

God forbid, people actually get excited about a young player.....


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Telfair played exceptional defense on Nash, it was the first time in a long time that I havent seen Nash blow by his man off the dribble....


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

Playmaker0017 said:


> The youth movement thing is awful.
> 
> Everyone wants to "play the young kids" they'll get better, blah, blah, blah. Crap in, crap out. Most of these guys won't make next year's roster and had a tough time making this year's. Be honest with yourself - every draft pick isn't a go. Period.


Isn't that the point of playing the kids? To find out which of them are going to make it and which aren't? Yes, we fans would like to believe they are all going to be superstars - and you are right that they aren't. But if we don't play them we'll never know (see, e.g., Jermaine). And we have nothing to lose except 25 more games we were going to lose anyway. 

barfo


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

It amazes me that people come here and go off on the team when they really didn't play that badly. Phoenix is a very good team that pushes the tempo, and when they play their game, they tend to win just like they did tonight, against whoever they play. Unless they are having an "Off" night, they tend to throttle whoever they are playing, and if they are playing a good team, it will be close, because that's how it is when two good teams play. Would anybody have truly expected the Blazers to do any better with the Vets in? They lost by 13 points, about what I would have expected either way. To expect anymore of Portland right now, is truly unrealistic. They did not make this coaching change in order to win now, they made it because it was time to make a change and start evaluating the talent on this team so they can know going into the off season what pieces they have, and what they need to patch up. 

Now that being said, I felt that Bassy did fine, he had a few turnovers, but that happens when you are a rookie. Outlaw shows he deserves more playing time, and he has the ability on his jumper to extend over anybody. It would be very hard for most people in the league to deal with his ability to jump and extension on his jumper, if it reminds me of anybodies shot, it is Rasheed's, very hard to block. He also showed an ability to get his own shot, and he shows he has range. Everything Portland is looking for in a small forward. Just get him to learn what to do on defense instead of relying purely on his athletic ability, and he will be a solid player. Shareef continues to show he is a premier scorer in the league, and also is showing we basically have wasted our last season and a half with him on board. Ruben would have helped out tonight, his ability to jam passing lanes would have got Portland some easy buckets. 

:clap:


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Nice points Hasoos, I too felt like we played pretty decent tonight. Phoenix is just on a whole nother level.


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

MAS RipCity said:


> Good grief, now I have to read more posts about how Telfair will never amount ti anything and how Darius Miles is the worst player of all-time.


Hmmm... that isn't even close to anything I said.

Play.


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Xericx said:


> Telfair will likely improve into a starting quality PF


You wouldn't be taking bets on that prediction would you? :biggrin: 

Welcome back Play!

STOMP


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

Kmurph said:


> :laugh:
> It is amazing to me that Telfair even now is such a polarizing force....people either love him or hate him...I don't get it.....a 19yr old kid just started and played 37min and had 18pts and 7 assists, and you want to label that as a negative?


I don't love or hate him. 

I hate the love affair people here have with him. 

When he does well - he's the next best PG in the universe. When he does terrible, it is because he is so young. 

As for 18 and 7, yes it can be a negative. He didn't do anything to make anyone better. He was very selfish most of the game. He and Damon were quite scary to watch at times. Defensively he was out of position (not nearly as bad a Miles and Damon, but pretty badly). 

He got 18 and 7 in garbage minutes. He was 6 and 3 when the game actually mattered. 

What amazes me is that you all complain about Damon, yet every time this kid has a "good game" it is when he plays just like Damon. 

Most of his assists are coming off the fast break - NOT from making good plays that give people open looks or breaking down the defense. That's the difference between a good PG and Jason Terry.



> Seriously, what does he have to do to meet with your approval?


Play smart basketball. Assists are a misnomer. Guys can get assists and not make the team better. Guys who are making the team better might not be racking up assists. 



> He scored, he passed, he played good defense, he hustled...what didn't he do?


Make any one of his teammates better.



> God forbid, people actually get excited about a young player.....


It isn't getting excited about a young player - it is that people here get excited about EVERY young player. You would think that Portland has had the 1st pick of the draft for 10 years the way you guys act about the young guys. 

There are SO many posts talking about the FUTURE of the team and the YOUNG STARS ... and none of the guys had even seen the court yet. It's silly.

Call me the balancing force.

Play.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

I think you are quite overblowing it. For one thing, we all know that quite a few draft picks Portland has made a lot of people have not liked, and are not the best thing since apple pie. Many of the draft picks over the "Last 10 years" as you say, most of the people were not so hot on. In fact, a lot of them we didn't even know existed until they got into games(Zach). Qyntel was a 50/50 like dislike amongst this group at best, especially since he tipped his hand that he was straight out of the trailer park early. Some of the other Portland draft picks have turned out pretty well, yet a lot of people (not all) did not like them (Jermaine Oneal). So you can go on spewing your generalities if you wish, but it's pretty worthless.

Secondly, we do not have a whole lot else to get excited over here. In case you haven't been paying attention to recent events, we have been getting our butt's kicked. The young players are all the future we have right now of turning this franchise around. Sebastien had a good game. If you don't like it, too bad. We differ on opinion. That is the way it's gonna stay.


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

hasoos said:


> So you can go on spewing your generalities if you wish, but it's pretty worthless.


Well, I wasn't "spewing" anything, much less "generalities" ... if anything I could have been "spewing" exaggerations ... as most assuredly I was exaggerating. 

But, the common thread through here is that Viktor, Ha, Miles, Telfair, Outlaw are all on the cusp of greatness. Or that's where the general tone of the threads since i have been gone seem to lead me. 



> Secondly, we do not have a whole lot else to get excited over here. In case you haven't been paying attention to recent events, we have been getting our butt's kicked.


Fair enough. But, you guys are hanging the franchise on guys that probably won't be with the team in two years. You ALL seem to be either extremely hot or extremely cold on players ... Let's take Miles ... he has a good game and it is the start of his all-star career and all he needs is PT. He stinks up the joint and he's the worst player in the league qand you were hoodwinked on the signing. 

All I'm saying is that putting these kids on pedestals is only going to leave you all cursing them ... because odds are they aren't going to be great.



> Sebastien had a good game. If you don't like it, too bad. We differ on opinion. That is the way it's gonna stay.


He has an okay game. At best.

He had a statistically impressive game by the end of it. But, so did Damon Stoudamire. But, neither of them did ANYTHING to help the team actually win when the game was in contention. 

Telfair scored when the game was all but over. He racked up his assists in the same period. Good for him. 

You have to look at it objectively. 

He's definitely better than he was at the beginning of the year -- I have seen him make some really nice passes since I left. But, he still isn't breaking the defense down and consistantly getting his teammates easy buckets. 

He hasn't made teammates better this year.

Of course, he did get my respect last night after the Reef vs. Nash thing. Telfair was the only Blazer to try to calm Reef down and then pushed Nash pretty hard on the next play and gave Reef a look of "there".

Play.


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## CrGiants (Dec 4, 2003)

So what is the fans fantasize over the young guys?

You do that with Shareef. And don't give this, "Look at his stats." The same thing you're knocking the Blazers' prospects for (putting up statistics when games did not matter or were out of hand) is exactly what Shareef has built his career out of.


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## Hype #9 (Feb 14, 2004)

Playmaker0017 said:


> But, the common thread through here is that Viktor, Ha, Miles, Telfair, Outlaw are all on the cusp of greatness. Or that's where the general tone of the threads since i have been gone seem to lead me.


 I think you're jumping to conclusions. We're optimistic that some of these players will improve, if given playing time. We just want to see what they got. Unlike the vets, who have no where to go but down.



> Telfair scored when the game was all but over. He racked up his assists in the same period. Good for him.


Was he supposed to stop playing when the game was over?



> You have to look at it objectively.


Take your own advice. He's 19.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Playmaker0017 said:


> Well, I wasn't "spewing" anything, much less "generalities" ... if anything I could have been "spewing" exaggerations ... as most assuredly I was exaggerating.
> 
> But, the common thread through here is that Viktor, Ha, Miles, Telfair, Outlaw are all on the cusp of greatness. Or that's where the general tone of the threads since i have been gone seem to lead me.
> 
> ...



First off, I don't think anyone here expects anything out of HA, if something were to happen it'll take a few years.

As for Telfair, get a grip man. He is 19,straight out of High School, and he scores 18 dishes out 7 assists has 3 steals, and overal was very efficient in his shot selction. I really do not know what more you want from him. Name me the last straight from high school point guard who has played as well as he has?


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

I just have to say that I think our post count is going to sky rocket now that Play's back


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Playmaker0017 said:


> When he does well - he's the next best PG in the universe. When he does terrible, it is because he is so young.


First of all, you're doing what I've seen you bridle at / dismiss when people do it to you: sarcastically exaggerate an opinion into an absurd position nobody holds. In this case, "he's the next best PG in the universe." To return this to reality, let's replace that with "it's a sign of a lot of talent."

You act like this is an intellectually dishonest double standard or something. It seems perfectly reasonable to me. If a ten year old were playing with college players, to take an extreme, wouldn't his successes mean a hell of a lot more than his failures, considering his age?

Whenever Telfair plays well, as a raw recent high schooler, that's an example of quite a lot of talent. When he inevitably does poorly, that is to be expected for a raw rookie straight from high school. The expectation is that he'll struggle; whenever he has a nice game, it's impressive and a sign of a lot of talent.

Therefore, I don't see the problem with holding the position that when he does well, it's a sign of high talent and when he does poorly, it is because he is so young.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

Give me a break Play.....

After the first quarter the ENTIRE game was garbage time...I guess your boy SAR put up a bunch of meaningless stats then too? That has been the lingering criticism of him as well.....

I don't buy it with SAR, and I don't buy it with Telfair...You can't have it both ways...SAR had a good game, but Telfair put up numbers in garbage time?...Sounds inconsistent to me....

And I don't care WHEN it was...a 19yr old kid, straight out of HS, scored 18pts and dished 7 assists...THAT is something positive...Considering that many so called "experts" said that a 6'0 HS PG couldn't succeed in the NBA, I'd say he is doing just fine....and he did make his teamates better...that comment is ridiculous...What game are you watching? b\c it wasn't the PHX\POR game I saw....

Everybody is fawning over Josh Smith of ATL and he played what 28min last night? and scored 4pts......But of course ATL doesn't play in any meaningless games  

Nor does JR Smith..............


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

I actually watched most of the replay tonight. I am still in awe over Miles dunk. How that did make ESPN's top 10 palys is beyond me.


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

Kmurph said:


> Give me a break Play.....
> 
> After the first quarter the ENTIRE game was garbage time...I guess your boy SAR put up a bunch of meaningless stats then too? That has been the lingering criticism of him as well.....


If Telfair somehow managed 12 and 5 at the end of the first quarter, I'd have been more impressed. That's not meaningless play. When the game was in contention, Shareef played well. 19 and 9 when the Blazers were down only 10. Not meaningless.

Telfair, at this point, was 4 and 2, or some such garbage. Then the third quarter hit and the guard-guard offense was initiated. There was a stretch where Telfair and Stoudamire took every shot ... and I mean every shot. Thus removing that 10 point lead and made it closer to 20. 



> I don't buy it with SAR, and I don't buy it with Telfair...


I don't buy it with Telfair or Reef either. But last night ... it was definitely padding his stats. It isn't his fault. He didn't Damon Stoudamire it, and get big eyes when he had the green light and shoot us out of the game with ill-advised shots. No. Nothing like that. 



> You can't have it both ways...SAR had a good game, but Telfair put up numbers in garbage time?...Sounds inconsistent to me....


Shareef had a good game up until halftime, after that, the game spiraled out of control. 

That isn't having it both ways. 



> and he did make his teamates better...that comment is ridiculous...What game are you watching? b\c it wasn't the PHX\POR game I saw....


He did, did he? At what point did he do this? Just name ONE play not on the fast break where he got someone an open look? 

Yeah. Not once. Compare that to Nash who got open looks for everyone and everything ... 

He's going to be REALLY good, of that there seems to be little doubt at this point. Of course, I said that before as well. But, he just isn't there yet. 



> Everybody is fawning over Josh Smith of ATL and he played what 28min last night? and scored 4pts......But of course ATL doesn't play in any meaningless games


Am I fawning over Josh Smith? Has anyone ever seen a "wow, Josh Smith is great" post out of me? Nope. He'll be okay. 

The media, and fans, fall in love with dunk contest winners. It didn't help that he had some pretty impressive games earlier in the season.

I don't care what the "crowd" is doing. I typically analyze things for myself than follow the crowd. Which is why I have placed my lips fully on Telfairs right buttcheek.

Play.


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

MAS RipCity said:


> I actually watched most of the replay tonight. I am still in awe over Miles dunk. How that did make ESPN's top 10 palys is beyond me.


It was an impressive dunk.

Miles has played well the past two games. He hasn't forced too much, which is usually his problem.

The rule on him should be that unless he is on the fast break for a dunk, he shouldn't shoot it. If he must shoot it, it needs to be a spot up shot. No movement.

Wait -- while I'm at it -- let's apply that to Stoudamire too.

Play.


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## CrGiants (Dec 4, 2003)

The third quarter hit and then we're suddenly down 20 points?

We were down 20 fairly quickly in the second quarter. Did you even watch the game?


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Please don't take personal shots at people, but if you feel compelled to make personal criticisms please do so in PM. Thanks,

Ed O.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

I'm glad Playmaker's back to take some of the heat off of me.


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

tlong said:


> I'm glad Playmaker's back to take some of the heat off of me.


Eh, people here are funny. If they could look at their posts from the outside, they'd laugh.

One day they love a player, the next the loathe them. 

I get ridiculed because I call a spade a spade. Period. I don't sugarcoat it or pretend it is something it isn't. I don't really waver in my line of thinking either. A player needs more than half a year to impress me. 

I still hold the belief that Reef is the most talented Blazer. So what? People here think ti is enough to actually ATTACK me for ... personally attack me. I find it humorous.

For instance, Pryzbilla. You all seem to be falling for Pryz, like he is the second coming. He's playing well. FAR better than he ever has. But, so did Miles last year and so did Theo. Look where those signing stand in the top 10 dumb things the Blazers did this past year.

Then when these players don't live up to these unrealistic "portland" expectations, they shred them apart.

Then they have one good game, and they are a superstar.

This isn't exaggerration, either.

Play.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

I agree with much of what you are saying Play. However, I don't think anybody has been overstating Przybilla. Przybilla has been a nice find, but I don't think anybody thinks he's one of the top centers in the league.

I do think Reef and Zach are the best players on the team.


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## Kmurph (May 7, 2003)

You confuse excitement over a player's progress, with "love\fawning" of tha player...and while for some people who post that may be true, some people definitely overeact...but I don't think that is anywhere NEAR an accurtate assessment of the majority of Blazer FANS that post here.

When Telfair (who has become the youth movement's "lightning rod") plays well...24? pts vs CHA....18pts & 7 assists vs PHX.....You expect people to not be excited.....

I don't know if the kid will be a"franchise" player, All-Star, whatever....Only time will tell...But what I DO know, is that his play, and at his age is impressive...NO matter how you try and downplay it...HS in general struggle.....Rookie PG in general struggle...

Telfair has struggled as well...But he is contributing more than I thought he would, and playing about as well as I could have hoped for as a rookie.....



> Telfair, at this point, was 4 and 2, or some such garbage.


That equates to 16pts and 8 assists over 4 quarters....I'd say that is pretty good. I can't believe you really expected a HS rookie, ON the road, against one of the premier teams and PG this year to have 12 & 5 after the 1st quarter of play.....Come on now.....You know you would be complaining (along with cronies like tlong....mixum...nathanlane...am I missing anyone?) that Telfair was a ballhog just like Damon, jacking up too many shots, socre 1st PG, etc.....



> Shareef had a good game up until halftime, after that, the game spiraled out of control.



Yes it is Play, SAR put up very good numbers, in what equates to a meaningless game...POR was down by double digits from the last part of the 1st quarter on....That is having it both ways IMO.....

Like I said, I don't buy it with SAR, but I don't think you can prop up SAR numbers on one hand as a "See, I told you he was a good player" and then do the reverse when discussing Telfair....



> He did, did he? At what point did he do this? Just name ONE play not on the fast break where he got someone an open look?
> 
> Yeah. Not once. Compare that to Nash who got open looks for everyone and everything ...


You didn't just really try and measure Telfair's performance as a HS rookie to Nash, the probably MVP of the NBA did you? I would expect Nash to play a lot better than Telfair...I am surprised that you apparently didn't.....

I wish I hadn't deleted the game...but I thought he had several good moments...none specific that I can recall a few days later...But there were a few times, he drove and dished it to a guy who scored....BTW I like how you answered your own question before I could respond....nice touch there...



> I don't care what the "crowd" is doing. I typically analyze things for myself than follow the crowd. Which is why I have placed my lips fully on Telfairs right buttcheek.


and niether do I, even though you try and accuse anyone who speaks good of Telfair as "fawning over him"....

And the point with Josh Smith is a valid one...as it is with JR Smith and Al Jefferson...who failed to score last night had 2 boards and a TO...He sucks BTW (j/k)....

Rookies struggle, they make mistakes, they generally play in garbage time...So when one is playing in meaningful time, and when one does put up some respectable nembers and performances, it should merit a positive note....not a negative one...like some of the Anti-Telfair posters here seemingly cannot get enough of doing.

Give the kid his props, he played fairly well.....I know I enjoy watching him a heck of a lot more than Damon or NVE....


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## gatorpops (Dec 17, 2004)

DITO to your post Kmurph. You usally say better than I what I want to say. 

By the way welcome bace Play. I've missed you!

Somthing I have never seen Play address about SAR is that he is slow to the ball when it does not come to him. 
He is a good position rebounder however. 

If Zack would ever decide to be a strong rebounder, he has much quicker feet and could get a lot more loose balls. 

Neither can jump very well however. 
They both get their rebounds, but at the end of games when the game is on the line and a rebound is needed they are both weak in my opinion. 
This is a glaring weakness for the team as a whole in my opinion.

gatorpops


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Playmaker0017 said:


> Eh, people here are funny. If they could look at their posts from the outside, they'd laugh.
> 
> One day they love a player, the next the loathe them.
> 
> I get ridiculed because I call a spade a spade. Period. I don't sugarcoat it or pretend it is something it isn't. I don't really waver in my line of thinking either. A player needs more than half a year to impress me.


If you could look at your posts from the outside and realize how much of a homer you are for Shareef, you'd laugh......

Shareef is a solid all around player, but slow and with creaky knees.....He has never been on a winning team, so i dont think that he has much veteran leadership that this team is looking for.....

Your obvious vendetta toward Darius Miles has been apparent ever since he stole the SF spot away from Shareef.....

I dont think that you see a spade as a spade, because if you did you would realize that Telfair is only a 19 year old rookie straight out of high school and you wouldnt put him up to the unrealistic expectations that you do....

His numbers right now as just a 19 year old rookie are better then Nash and many other top notch point guards were in there rookie campaigns, and they had college experience to work on their game.....


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

zagsfan20 said:


> If you could look at your posts from the outside and realize how much of a homer you are for Shareef, you'd laugh......


Actually, no I wouldn't. 

I know I am a homer. I don't try to hide it or act ashamed of it. 

I wear that **** like a badge.



> Shareef is a solid all around player, but slow and with creaky knees.....He has never been on a winning team, so i dont think that he has much veteran leadership that this team is looking for.....


Again, this statement assumes the supposition that I would LIKE this team to want to keep Shareef. I don't. I could care less.

I don't know where this franchise is headed, in fact I don't think Portland management has any idea where this franchise is headed. So, I make no claim to know if they want Reef or not. Nor do I care.



> Your obvious vendetta toward Darius Miles has been apparent ever since he stole the SF spot away from Shareef.....


I have no vendetta against Miles. I've never liked Miles - from the moment he entered the league. I said it well before Reef and Miles competed for time. I've never liked Miles. I think he'll always have "potential" and "glimpses of greatness", but will never realize it because he is a headcase.

I think Miles has the potential to be the best Blazer of everyone on the roster - but will never come close to it, because he's a headcase. 

This isn't a vendetta. This is me stating my opinion of his game.



> I dont think that you see a spade as a spade, because if you did you would realize that Telfair is only a 19 year old rookie straight out of high school and you wouldnt put him up to the unrealistic expectations that you do....


I don't have unrealistic expectations. I have ZERO expectations of him. 

What I do have is disgust over the amount of adulation the guy gets. He makes a half-way decent play and he gets FAR more credit than he deserves.

It isn't that he isn't going to be good or he isn't more impressive than I expected him to be. He is.

But, he's getting HEAPS of praise - and has done nothing to earn that. That's what bothers me about Telfair. That and he looks like a really cocky *****, but that's a personal thing.

That's what bothers me. He hasn't earned the amount of praise he gets. He's playing well. He's playing well enough that he SHOULD be the starter. That's great. But, that's where it ends. 

People here act like he takes the court and all of a sudden the team plays better ... and that just isn't true. 

Play.


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

gatorpops said:


> By the way welcome bace Play. I've missed you!


Thanks. I've missed giving you all crap, so I guess the feeling is mutual, eh? Hehe.



> Somthing I have never seen Play address about SAR is that he is slow to the ball when it does not come to him.


He definitely is.

Part of it is because he truly believes in boxing out his man. But, I wish that were the only reason. Reef isn't very quick with reaction time. He doesn't work as hard on the boards as I wish he would. 

I know a lot of it deals with his back, but he was never a great loose ball guy.



> If Zack would ever decide to be a strong rebounder, he has much quicker feet and could get a lot more loose balls.


Zach's biggest problem is that he isn't fundamentally sound. He doesn't box guys out at all. He constantly tries to get the ball and it makes himself thin and guys get around him for the ball.

It works great on offense, but for defense it isn't good. 

But, the guy has a fantastic ability to be where the ball is going to go. That's a skill you can't teach.



> They both get their rebounds, but at the end of games when the game is on the line and a rebound is needed they are both weak in my opinion.


I would agree completely. Reef moreso than Zach. Zach is stronger than Reef and can force his way inside. 

Play.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Playmaker0017 said:


> Actually, no I wouldn't.
> 
> I know I am a homer. I don't try to hide it or act ashamed of it.
> 
> I wear that **** like a badge.


Then why does it irk you when we are homers of Telfair, one of our teams bright spots????

You drool over Shareefs snack pack all day and nobody really cares how much you over hype him and then when we discuss Telfair, you say we overhype our players.....?


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

Glad to have you back Play. :biggrin:


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

zagsfan20 said:


> Then why does it irk you when we are homers of Telfair, one of our teams bright spots????


Because Reef has earned it through hard play and I know the guy. 

Two things that probably don't hodl true for Telfair.



> You drool over Shareefs snack pack all day and nobody really cares how much you over hype him and then when we discuss Telfair, you say we overhype our players.....?


They don't? Could have fooled me.

Play.


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

This thread was about the Portland - Phoenix game

Feel free to start a new thread about specific players and who you like. Its getting way off topic now.


If this continues. I will close it.


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

Trader Bob,

Closing a thread, well after a game has ended because the thread has strayed is a little overbearing - don't you think?

Or do you think people are coming here 5 days after the game to lead through our thread on the games?

Play.


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