# Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-things



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Lebron just tweeted this: Karma is a b****.. Gets you every time. Its not good to wish bad on anybody.

I suppose in reference to the Cavs-Lakers game? Wow. He really is embracing the villain role now, huh?

Also my internet blew up retweeting this, so I would imagine you'll be hearing about this for the next few days.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Was posted in the game day thread, but it'll get enough play to deserve its own.

Villainous indeed, Mr James. Embrace the dark side.

:starwars:


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

And you know what's funny? You put Lebron on this current Cavs team and they will win 60 games. When they do that you'll see a bunch of idiots claiming that he has a great supporting cast and it's his fault for not winning a championship with that "great supporting cast".


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

As I said in the other thread, LBJ managed to upstage the Cavs/Laker game.

I'm watching ESPN now and wondering if they are going to call him out for that tweet.


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## myst (Feb 22, 2006)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

From the other thread. 

"In my opinion, Lebron's tweet is towards Dan Gilbert, not the players. I don't think the players wished bad on him, but Gilbert certainly did."


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## Jesukki (Mar 3, 2009)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Strong ether.


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## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



seifer0406 said:


> And you know what's funny? You put Lebron on this current Cavs team and they will win 60 games. When they do that you'll see a bunch of idiots claiming that he has a great supporting cast and it's his fault for not winning a championship with that "great supporting cast".


You said it. And when he barely misses a triple double, he "quit" on the team LOL

Sooner or later(more sooner) the Cav fans will see that blame LeBron stuff only takes you so far. They have to see their management and ownership for what it is. And who will Gilbert blame then ???

Thank goodness Scott has a guaranteed contract !


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## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



myst said:


> From the other thread.
> 
> "In my opinion, Lebron's tweet is towards Dan Gilbert, not the players. I don't think the players wished bad on him, but Gilbert certainly did."


That avatar is perfect :rotf:


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

OMG ESPN has Mike Brown's inaugural show tonight! :| Talk about irony!!!

And guess what game's highlights they lead with? LOL


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Ron said:


> As I said in the other thread, LBJ managed to upstage the Cavs/Laker game.
> 
> I'm watching ESPN now and wondering if they are going to call him out for that tweet.


They just mentioned it. lol.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

ESPN bit the bullet and is reporting the tweet.

Mike Brown is laughing.


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

_*will bump this thread when Miami is knocked out in the 2011 Playoffs*_


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Ron said:


> ESPN bit the bullet and is reporting the tweet.
> 
> Mike Brown is laughing.


I think that was my favorite part about it.

I guess Mike Brown shows his own worth - at least as a defensive coach?


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Prepare for the Lebron's PR team to go into crisis mode. Backtrack coming tomorrow before the Clippers game, book it.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Good for LeBron. He made a business decision and Gilbert and the fans made it personal. LeBron has every right to find joy in the mysery of that franchise.


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## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

I can't imagine the whole scenario going any worse for Gilbert


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## edabomb (Feb 12, 2005)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

I guess he really hates the Cavs. Waiting until the end of FA to announce his decision always meant they'd be pathetic this season.


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## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Good for LeBron. He made a business decision and Gilbert and the fans made it personal. LeBron has every right to find joy in the mysery of that franchise.


I couldn't agree more. About time we see a top athlete show his true feelings. Enough with the cliches and agent written statements. Tell how you really feel. I love it !


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## Il BLaZe l1 (Mar 22, 2010)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



LA68 said:


> I can't imagine the whole scenario going any worse for Gilbert


i agree. what a contrast from last year. i just feel bad for the fans.


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## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Mike Brown: "I am glad I don't know how to tweet."

:laugh:


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Good for LeBron. He made a business decision and Gilbert and *the fans made it personal.* LeBron has every right to find joy in the mysery of that franchise.


The fans reacted perfectly fine. They were angry, and they let him know it.

I don't have any problem with Lebron tweeting this, but there was nothing wrong with the way the fans reacted towards Lebron. They reacted like fans in their situation would. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Ron said:


> ESPN bit the bullet and is reporting the tweet.
> 
> Mike Brown is laughing.



No ****. If Mike Brown had a twitter he would have tweeted what Lebron tweeted during the return game. I'm sure he doesn't have a ton of love for Dan Gilbert.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Pay Ton said:


> The fans reacted perfectly fine. They were angry, and they let him know it.
> 
> I don't have any problem with Lebron tweeting this, but there was nothing wrong with the way the fans reacted towards Lebron. They reacted like fans in their situation would. Nothing more, nothing less.


Why are you trying to steal Diable's thing with the album cover avatar?


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Adam said:


> Why are you trying to steal Diable's thing with the album cover avatar?


...

...

...?


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Wade County said:


> Prepare for the Lebron's PR team to go into crisis mode. Backtrack coming tomorrow before the Clippers game, book it.


Lebron has a PR team?


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

The best part is his new twitter location. "Wherever Haters Are." Hilarious.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Pay Ton said:


> The fans reacted perfectly fine. They were angry, and they let him know it.
> 
> I don't have any problem with Lebron tweeting this, but there was nothing wrong with the way the fans reacted towards Lebron. They reacted like fans in their situation would. Nothing more, nothing less.


Cleveland fans, yeah maybe. But Memphis Grizzly fans? Portland Trailblazer fans? Dude is hated more than Mike Vick and he didn't even kill any dogs. Glad he's embracing it, but it's stupid that he's even in that position to begin with.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Pay Ton said:


> The fans reacted perfectly fine. They were angry, and they let him know it.
> 
> I don't have any problem with Lebron tweeting this, but there was nothing wrong with the way the fans reacted towards Lebron. They reacted like fans in their situation would. Nothing more, nothing less.


You say they _were_ angry and they _reacted_ like they should, which implies that they're finished being angry. They're not, not by a long shot. They're a little more obsessive than they should be, but that's probably a reflection of their owner. I expect boos when he returns, but organizing different chants for different periods of the game? Ehh. A little extreme. They're going to be bitter for a long time, and I don't have any problem with that, but then again I don't care about the Cavs. That franchise is in trouble because their fans and owner are more worried about LeBron than anything else. It's hard to lose one of the greatest players of all-time in his prime, but they've compounded the problem with how they've handled it.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

They also had a radio station put a voodoo hex on Lebron/the Heat; Dan Gilbert himself wished some kind of curse on Lebron in comic sans, the whole tangent of fans attacking his family with various lewd rumors and insults--some have for sure gone overboard--beyond simply being upset he left.

The cavs moving their hotel this week so they didn't stay in the same hotel as the heat, probably didn't help the team's focus any, and was a move that was probably a bit obsessive.

I think the players are probably sick of hearing about Lebron, but the fans and owner only care about things in relation Lebron.

Thing is, it's a testament to how much he was worshipped there. He was basically treated as a god in Ohio for about a decade. And we're suprised he has ego issues? Or that the worshippers are a little obsessive?

I mean hte Cavs/Lebron ad campaign was messianic in tone. So what do you do when God embarrasses you on national TV and turns his back on you? You probably go through hell.


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Sir Patchwork said:


> You say they _were_ angry and they _reacted_ like they should, which implies that they're finished being angry. They're not, not by a long shot. They're a little more obsessive than they should be, but that's probably a reflection of their owner. I expect boos when he returns, but organizing different chants for different periods of the game? Ehh. A little extreme. They're going to be bitter for a long time, and I don't have any problem with that, but then again I don't care about the Cavs. That franchise is in trouble because their fans and owner are more worried about LeBron than anything else. It's hard to lose one of the greatest players of all-time in his prime, but they've compounded the problem with how they've handled it.


No, they're not finished being angry, and they won't be finished being angry for a while. But who cares? **** it. Let them be angry. Like you said, they're only hurting themselves. They still haven't done anything off color or morally inexcusable as a fanbase, and at this point, I don't think they will. They've been obsessive, and they've been petulant. So have a lot of fanbases for a lot of different reasons. I see posters on here wishing for KG to suffer some season ending injury almost every other day. That's also obsessive and petulant.



> They also had a radio station put a voodoo hex on Lebron/the Heat;


That's been done before many times by teams with less hatred towards one another than the Cavs have with the Heat/Lebron.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Wade County said:


> Prepare for the Lebron's PR team to go into crisis mode. Backtrack coming tomorrow before the Clippers game, book it.


Twitter was hack'd


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



futuristxen said:


> Lebron has a PR team?


Seriously LeBron's PR team is one of the worst PR teams of all time. It's so easy to spin a cocky bastard with some skeletons into a loveable character and they have failed miserably at it. If he had a good team he'd be the most marketable player in sports, regardless of his attitude.


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## Gx (May 24, 2006)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Hibachi! said:


> If he had a good team he'd be the most marketable player in sports, regardless of his attitude.


I don't think a recent study has been done since "The Decision", but isn't he the most marketable NBA player already? And probably in the top 3-5 among US Athletes.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Gx said:


> I don't think a recent study has been done since "The Decision", but isn't he the most marketable NBA player already? And probably in the top 3-5 among US Athletes.


Yeah but he could have been on an MJ like marketing level. He could have been up there with Tiger Woods. He could have been the face of the NBA. He's not on any of those levels.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

The Cavaliers have every reason to hate LeBron. Let's stop trying to make everything ideal and about every team being competitive and just play the (realistic) fan...when you're talking a potential top 10 all-time player who leaves a team in it's prime A) that team is finished and deserves to take every shot at him they can and B) long term POV the only entertainment that team can provide is digs and quotes about said player.

In the narrative of LeBron's career would we rather hear the Cavs scrapped to 42 wins for the rest of his career or would we rather they went from deification to hatred in one summer and subsequently tried to psychologically torture him to no avail? I'm going with the latter. Every team doesn't get to be a bride...or a girlfriend...or a mistress. Some teams are just fat crushes.


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Christ do i hate lebron


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## Noyze (Oct 7, 2010)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Good for LeBron. He made a business decision and Gilbert and the fans made it personal. LeBron has every right to find joy in the mysery of that franchise.


Amen


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## Noyze (Oct 7, 2010)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

http://twitter.com/mogotti2/status/25074366345650176

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6730/82955875.gif


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Lebron deserves all the hate he gets from fans anywhere and everywhere. He embarrassed his team on national TV on a one hour show that nobody but him ever would've thought of, then there was that stupid ad. He seems to enjoy all the hate anyway with all the rubbish he puts on twitter. Can't remember any other superstar acting like such a tool.

Has any good ever come from twitter?


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

I read somewhere that sometimes teams don't even give a player word when they're being traded, that sometimes they'll tell them right before a road trip with no forewarning.

Also, in other sports teams would cut a player who performed many years for a team, because that team doesn't want to pay bonuses.

Too many times we've seen teams screw players. Yeah, we've seen players overpaid way too much, and we've seen players dog it and don't give their all.

But Lebron gave his all to that team. Ownership didn't put better players around him. He took a crap ass team to the finals, and just look at the Cavs now without Lebron and some other minor role players - nothing. 

Yeah the decision was in poor taste, but look at the society we live in. The 24 hour news cycle with reality shows on every station damn near. Sucks for a Cleveland fan, yeah, but they had seven years of Lebron. He left. It's his right. And as much as you don't like it, the decision was his right also.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Jesus Tragedy, you are ****ing obsessed with LeBron aren't you


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



garnett said:


> Has any good ever come from twitter?


Lebron's tweet tonight, and the mental notes one spring to mind readily. I like that twitter is getting past the boring standard issue quotes that superstars used to always give. Now they go on twitter and say wacky things.

I always enjoyed Rasheed Wallace because he spoke his mind, even if he said crazy things. I'm definitely enjoying the best player in the game showing some personality and also saying crazy things. If anything I want more.

The subliminal tweet beef between Dan Gilbert and Lebron is kind of unprecedented and hilarious on some levels.

I just wish the NBA would let them tweet during games. That would be better than a million of those stupid coach's interviews the NBA has.


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Dre™ said:


> Jesus Tragedy, you are ****ing obsessed with LeBron aren't you


I am?

Personally I was a Lebron fan when he was in HS, and his first season. After that I got off the bandwagon, and I hated his decision to go to Miami - not that he made the Decision.

It wasn't until a friend told me that the More than a Game documentary was on netflix view now and that it was pretty good did I warm back up to Lebron, because then I understood his motivations.

And while he does want to become this big global icon at his base he wants to be a part of something. So I can't really knock the man for his decision to play with whom he considers his best friends in the NBA. I also let go of the comparisons people draw to MJ and Kobe, as far as their mentality is. Both those guys came from two parent households - they were able to gain that killer mentality where Lebron was looking for a place to belong.

Then it's even more pronounced when people talk this crap about loyalty, and how he wasn't loyal to his fans or to his team (read: employer). I mean really - should everyone in the NBA be so loyal to organizations? It's not as though Lebron was some problem child, or some down on his luck player who turned his back on the organization - he was the mercurial superstar that turned a franchise around overnight - he didn't owe the Cavaliers organization ANYTHING, if anything they owed him something. 

I mean hell, with that kind of background, would you give up an opportunity to play with your friends in Miami, or would you stay in Cleveland?

If you're a Cavs fan, I understand the vitriol. But people are going over the top with the hatred. Like he stole your girlfriend or something.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Just an old jokey joke *random breakdancing* *seizuresque movements* (c)Martin

I was taking R-Star's joke for the night :whoknows:


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Wasn't really getting what this topic was about because I didn't follow any NBA action last night..... then I saw the score.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Lmao...man, I lIke LeBron. He is getting the F U ability down better than Kobe.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Anyone trying to defend either party as just in this entire situation is kidding themselves. LeBron has been an ass, and there's absolutely nothing that you can say on the internet to change that. Just like how the Cavs managment is clearly inept and will remain bitter until Bron retires, there's simply no changing that.

Both sides are embarassing themselves, but atleast LeBron has been playing at a level that allows him to back up his **** talking.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Hibachi! said:


> Seriously LeBron's PR team is one of the worst PR teams of all time. It's so easy to spin a cocky bastard with some skeletons into a loveable character and they have failed miserably at it. If he had a good team he'd be the most marketable player in sports, regardless of his attitude.


To quote a friend of mine that works in the ad industry "The two most marketable athletes in America are a rapist and a serial adulterer."


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

LeBron screwed over the Cavs by never actively recruiting free agents in Cleveland. His lackadaisical attitude and commitment to Cleveland is why they were never able to sign anyone noteworthy.
He also screwed over the Cavs pressuring their management team to get vets (Shaq, Jamison, etc). This allowed the Cavs to get the top record but it was bad for the team in the long run. Lebron teased the management team into believing that it would help them keep him when in reality he had no intention of staying. It wasn't the fact that he left that screwed over the Cavs, it was the fact that he screwed over the team in the long term by encouraging them to make decisions under the premise that it would help them retain him.

Then LeBron followed it up with an embarrassing display of arrogance with his Decision programming on ESPN. He could have told everyone his decision early on. Instead he choose to wait until the end of free agency which made the Cavs miss out on opportunities to sign free agents and do trades. I suspect he did this on purpose, because by making the team worse, he makes his perceived importance to the team look larger after he leaves.

People forget that the Cavs team last night was lacking their best player Varejao. It was also missing Shaq and big Z. It was essentially last year's Cavs team except missing it's entire front court plus it's primary scorer. Since LeBron waited until the end of the free agency period to decide, the Cavs couldn't find an adequate scorer to fill in for his role. Outside of that, the Cavs team found role players that were custom fit for LeBron, namely defensive role players and sharp shooters. Those players are great if you have a high usage rate player like LeBron, but if you lose the key piece of a team you custom built around one player, obviously it'll be a lot worse with him.


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## Maravilla (Jul 6, 2010)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Kenneth said:


> People forget that the Cavs team last night was lacking their best player Varejao.


:2ti:


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Kenneth said:


> LeBron screwed over the Cavs by never actively recruiting free agents in Cleveland. His lackadaisical attitude and commitment to Cleveland is why they were never able to sign anyone noteworthy.


He had very little say over the Cadavaliers' spending spree that ruined the team's chances. Please stop repeating Danny Ferry's excuses. The Cavs didn't want to spend the money on Joe Johnson years ago, and opted instead to spend the cash on contract-year superman Larry Hughes. That contract, combined with LeBron's extension, hamstrung the franchise. And that wasn't James' fault. It was Ferry's. It was his call.



Kenneth said:


> He also screwed over the Cavs pressuring their management team to get vets (Shaq, Jamison, etc). This allowed the Cavs to get the top record but it was bad for the team in the long run. Lebron teased the management team into believing that it would help them keep him when in reality he had no intention of staying.


If Ferry had been willing to pay the price of a second all star, James likely would have stayed because the Cavs would have been his best shot at titles. Instead he fiddled while Cleveland burned, and his last minute prayer to save the franchise was to trade for a 34 year old garbageman (and then blame LeBron after the fact). Had he paid the price for Amar'e James'd likely still be in Cleveland.



Kenneth said:


> He could have told everyone his decision early on. Instead he choose to wait until the end of free agency which made the Cavs miss out on opportunities to sign free agents and do trades.


His decision came one week in to the free agent season, and the Cadavaliers were near the cap, even without him, so there was no max free agent signing to make. He did attempt to convince Bosh to come to Cleveland, but Bosh didn't want to play there. The minute that Ferry staked the franchise future on an aging garbageman Gilbert should have given him the sack and hired someone to draw up a plan for the post-LeBron years. That's not James' fault, it's the organisations. 

You sound like one of those embittered Bruins' fans when Ray Bourque finally gave up and demanded a trade to a team that had a chance to win a Stanley Cup. It wasn't Bourque's fault that the owners were cheap and unwilling to spend what it took to put a contender on the ice, just as it wasn't James' fault to have played for two of the worst GMs in basketball.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Better win a championship man, or two for that matter.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



E.H. Munro said:


> He had very little say over the Cadavaliers' spending spree that ruined the team's chances. Please stop repeating Danny Ferry's excuses. The Cavs didn't want to spend the money on Joe Johnson years ago, and opted instead to spend the cash on contract-year superman Larry Hughes. That contract, combined with LeBron's extension, hamstrung the franchise. And that wasn't James' fault. It was Ferry's. It was his call.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you bother to find any real evidence before you write posts? Or do you just make stuff up?

The Cavs spent close to $80 million in player salaries last year and more than willing to spend it if they were contending. Yet somehow you think they were afraid to spend money? Right.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

RealSkipBayless: So LeBron is saying that God will punish the Cavs for what he, LeBron, did to them? Now that's divine irony.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

I like how it is LeBron's fault they have a ****ty roster. When 6 months ago, LeBron had an championship quality supporting cast.

Spin doctor spin


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

I'm still trying to figure out why he was supposed to be loyal to a franchise HE CREATED!

They were the ones who were supposed to be loyal to him. He increased the value of the franchise singlehandedly, he increased the stature of the franchise overnight. People feel Lebron owed Cleveland like they took a chance on him - that's funny to me.

And you know recruiting Bosh to Cleveland was futile, when Bosh could easily say "why play in Cleveland, when we all could play in Miami together?"

And knowing Lebron's motivations and what makes him happy (the camaraderie) - who WOULDN'T make that 'decision.'

I think he's seen what's happened with Kobe and realized no matter what he'll never be the GOAT, and that if he just plays his game he'll still be an all time great, and that he'd win more titles with Wade than he would in Cleveland with Andersen Varajeo.

He's out of touch, but not stupid.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Kenneth said:


> Do you bother to find any real evidence before you write posts? Or do you just make stuff up?


What part of July 8th 2010 do you not understand?



Kenneth said:


> The Cavs spent close to $80 million in player salaries last year and more than willing to spend it if they were contending.


Who cares what the payroll is if you're spending it on refuse? Ferry wasn't willing to part with JJ Hickson and whatever else it took to add a real all star to their roster and paid the price for his incompetence. The minute he bet the house on the remains of Antawn Jamison Gilbert should have seen the writing on the wall and found a GM to start drawing a plan for the post-LeBron years. Cleveland's failure to deal with reality was their own.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Lynx said:


> _*will bump this thread when Miami is knocked out in the 2011 Playoffs*_


Hope you can still find it in 2016. :rotf:


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



myst said:


> From the other thread.
> 
> "In my opinion, Lebron's tweet is towards Dan Gilbert, not the players. I don't think the players wished bad on him, but Gilbert certainly did."


I wonder if that's really the case. I mean, I'm sure you read the article about how Miami/Cleveland were going to be staying in the same hotel on the road. However the Cavs didn't want that, so they changed their itinerary. 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/news/story?id=6005618


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Kenneth said:


> LeBron screwed over the Cavs by never actively recruiting free agents in Cleveland. His lackadaisical attitude and commitment to Cleveland is why they were never able to sign anyone noteworthy.
> He also screwed over the Cavs pressuring their management team to get vets (Shaq, Jamison, etc). This allowed the Cavs to get the top record but it was bad for the team in the long run. Lebron teased the management team into believing that it would help them keep him when in reality he had no intention of staying. It wasn't the fact that he left that screwed over the Cavs, it was the fact that he screwed over the team in the long term by encouraging them to make decisions under the premise that it would help them retain him.
> 
> Then LeBron followed it up with an embarrassing display of arrogance with his Decision programming on ESPN. He could have told everyone his decision early on. Instead he choose to wait until the end of free agency which made the Cavs miss out on opportunities to sign free agents and do trades. I suspect he did this on purpose, because by making the team worse, he makes his perceived importance to the team look larger after he leaves.
> ...


Kobe has recruited tons of free agents in his career. I guess that's why he's so successful.

MJ has recruited tons of free agents in his career, I guess that's why he's so successful.

Tim Duncan has recruited tons of free agents in his career, I guess that's why he's so successful.

Lebron made the decision to sign Donyell Marshall, that's why he's a screwup.

Lebron made the decision to draft Luke Jackson, that's why he's a screwup.

Lebron didn't secure a contract with Carlos Boozer, that's why he's a screwup.

Yes, it's Lebron's fault why the Cavs haven't won a championship.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



HB said:


> Better win a championship man, or two for that matter.


Yeah. Or else someone WILL have the last laugh on Lebron James.


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



HB said:


> Better win a championship man, or two for that matter.


Heard this all before with Jordan then Shaq and then Kobe post Shaq. If the last haven for haters is LeBron won't win a title, you need to let it go. He is going to win titles.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



PauloCatarino said:


> Yeah. Or else someone WILL have the last laugh on Lebron James.


Who is that "someone" who will get the last laugh?


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Who is that "someone" who will get the last laugh?


Cavs fans: "Lebron is a loser, just like us. HAHAHAHA!"


----------



## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Update: 

LeBron: Tweet Not Meant for Cavs

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/news/story?id=6016717

I know you've all been waiting on this.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Don't ****ing backtrack, LeBron. Christ.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

I remember an exec saying LeBron did more recruiting for the Heat in that first week than he did in 7 years in Cleveland. 

And this was after the big 3 signed, so there was minimal money to spend. The Cavaliers had a MLE every year, and fairly highly regarded players to swing sign and trades with. It is what is though...


----------



## Cris (Jun 18, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Does LeBron not think before he says **** to the media? It's becoming pretty clear that he doesnt.


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Duck34234 said:


> Update:
> 
> LeBron: Tweet Not Meant for Cavs
> 
> ...


:lol:

He's babbling like a brook, he's all over the place in that press conference.



> When asked to clarify his confusing comments, James and the questions were cut off by a member of the Heat public relations staff.


There you go.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Dre™ said:


> And this was after the big 3 signed, so there was minimal money to spend. The Cavaliers had a MLE every year, and fairly highly regarded players to swing sign and trades with. It is what is though...


How many superstars sign for the MLE? How many superstars did Miami sign _after_ signing Bosh & James? Mike Miller was recruited by his college teammate. So that pretty much leaves the remains of Zydrunas Ilgauskas. Who is valuable due to his size, but Cleveland made those sorts of signings every year.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Easier to recruit guys to come play in Miami than it is Cleveland. Plus the problem with the Cavs wasn't MLE level guys. They had a ton of those. It was the lack of a legit second star who wouldn't disapear in the playoffs. Against the top teams you can't win 1 on 5. Though Lebron did manage it that one year he got past the Pistons. But even that required Boobie Gibson to play the series of his life.


----------



## O2K (Nov 19, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

so the lebron loses in the same building that the cavs get spanked in the game before. he twists his ankle pretty bad. yikes. karma my friend, karma.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Floods said:


> Don't ****ing backtrack, LeBron. Christ.


I like it. It's even more entertaining if he's lying right to people's faces. 

He passed on something that someone sent to him, but he didn't re-tweet it, and it's a concept he's used throughout his life. Despite sending it out right after the Cavs lost by 500 points, it wasn't meant for them. He just felt like tweeting his life's mantra. He's moved on from the Cavs and wishes them well. Makes perfect sense.


----------



## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Disappointed that he's denied it was Cleveland. It'd be so much more fun if he said 'Yeah, that was for Cleveland, and especially Gilbert, the bitch.'


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



E.H. Munro said:


> How many superstars sign for the MLE? How many superstars did Miami sign _after_ signing Bosh & James? Mike Miller was recruited by his college teammate. So that pretty much leaves the remains of Zydrunas Ilgauskas. Who is valuable due to his size, but Cleveland made those sorts of signings every year.


You're starting to sound like the apologist people made me out to be. Of course you're not going to get stars for the MLE, but you can always try to recruit roleplayers. 

Did I say LeBron got everybody to sign or did I say LeBron was pushing people to sign? My point is even if they didn't sign on doesn't mean he wasn't trying, and trying harder than he did in Cleveland apparently.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

And per the actual quote I read the story...so he says it was something he got from someone else but there was no retweet next to it, and now he's denying it..yeah he definitely learned a lot from Jay-Z, and I'm not even joking.


----------



## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Ron said:


> :lol:
> 
> 
> > When asked to clarify his confusing comments, James and the questions were cut off by a member of the Heat public relations staff.
> ...


Time for you to bring back the *M* word.

IMO, I liked the tweet. It was Dan Gilbert who started that Karma throwing and Lebron just used a very convenient moment to jab back at Him and the team.

But his constant backtracking........true moron.:sad:


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Well there were quotation marks around the tweet right? Maybe he was being truthful that he got it from someone else.


----------



## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



HB said:


> Well there were quotation marks around the tweet right? Maybe he was being truthful that he got it from someone else.


I believe him on that, but he indorsed the comment by sending it out and it's hard to believe that he wasn't thinking about the Cavs when he relayed the message.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

He's not backing down he's just throwing stones and hiding his hand. I'm pretty sure the Cavs know what he's talking about but he won't have it in the press as something he said about Cleveland, so his apologists can still feel like it's not a two way street and Gilbert is just obsessed with him for no reason.

That's what he's doing, that's what I mean by learning from Jay...

I'm not much for subliminal **** though, that's corny to me.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

karma's a funny old thing and Mr 1st loss in 14 tries, tweaked ankle and may miss tonight's action would be wise not to trifle with it


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Dre™ said:


> You're starting to sound like the apologist people made me out to be. Of course you're not going to get stars for the MLE, but you can always try to recruit roleplayers.


I'm pointing out the nonsense of Danny Ferry's claim. LeBron recruited Ilgauskas, who was a softball signing for Miami (there was little chance that he was going to team up with anyone but LeBron if he left Cleveland). Everyone should have seen that loser for what he was when he went to the press to cry "It wasn't my fault!!!!" fifteen seconds after he was shown the door.


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



e-monk said:


> karma's a funny old thing and Mr 1st loss in 14 tries, tweaked ankle and may miss tonight's action would be wise not to trifle with it


This.

Karma is circular. :laugh:


----------



## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



e-monk said:


> karma's a funny old thing and Mr 1st loss in 14 tries, tweaked ankle and may miss tonight's action would be wise not to trifle with it


Man please.

I'm really hating this theory that he has to be soooo loyal to the Cavs, or to any team for that matter.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

then you're missing the point because there's a difference between being loyal and being classy on your way out - he was neither but Im only faulting him for the latter


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Tragedy said:


> Man please.
> 
> I'm really hating this theory that he has to be soooo loyal to the Cavs, or to any team for that matter.


Where does he say that?

He is merely talking about karma coming back to haunt *LBJ* t *M*. If you tweet it, it will come.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Who is that "someone" who will get the last laugh?


Everyone who thinks that Lebron James quit on the Cavs, srewed that frachise over, and fled to ring-chase joining Dwyane Wade.

And, yeah, that would include me.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



PauloCatarino said:


> Everyone who thinks that Lebron James quit on the Cavs, srewed that frachise over, and fled to ring-chase joining Dwyane Wade.


No fan is going to get the last laugh on a multi-millionaire hall of famer. It would be kind of sad for some loser somewhere to be like "yeah I got the last laugh on Karl Malone, I knew he'd never win a title"

Though he doesn't have to win a ring to justify the move, because he may have never won with Cleveland either. Look at that team this year. Historically bad. Can't believe people thought that team was a good supporting cast.


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



PauloCatarino said:


> Everyone who thinks that Lebron James quit on the Cavs, srewed that frachise over, and fled to ring-chase joining Dwyane Wade.
> 
> And, yeah, that would include me.


*** Can you PLEASE stick to the topic. ***


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



PauloCatarino said:


> Everyone who thinks that Lebron James quit on the Cavs, srewed that frachise over, and fled to ring-chase joining Dwyane Wade.
> 
> And, yeah, that would include me.


Will we get your annual Die Cavs, Die thread this year? For old time's sake?


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Just want you message board judges to know that the Cleveland fans have a right to be mad at Lebron.


----------



## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



HB said:


> Just want you message board judges to know that the Cleveland fans have a right to be mad at Lebron.


Yeah, Cleveland fans can be mad to high hell, but when I see other people talking crap - meh


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



futuristxen said:


> Will we get your annual Die Cavs, Die thread this year? For old time's sake?


The Cadavaliers died for good on July 8th of last year. Another thread would simply be redundant.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



The One said:


> Time for you to bring back the *M* word.
> 
> IMO, I liked the tweet. It was Dan Gilbert who started that Karma throwing and Lebron just used a very convenient moment to jab back at Him and the team.
> 
> But his constant backtracking........true moron.:sad:


Sadly, this. 

If he embraces the role of bad guy so much, why does he constantly keep saying/tweeting these borderline-edgy things, and then 10 minutes later retract them and go 'sorry sorry sorry I didn't mean it/I didn't post that sorry sorry plz forgive me'? There's nothing wrong with laughing as those pissant fans and that ****tard owner writhe while watching LeBron's 'supporting cast' flop around like a bunch of brain damaged fish. Stick by your words.


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

He is a *MORON* anyway tweeting it, backtracking like that just makes him a *MWC* (moron without conviction).


----------



## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Floods said:


> Sadly, this.
> 
> If he embraces the role of bad guy so much, why does he constantly keep saying/tweeting these borderline-edgy things, and then 10 minutes later retract them and go 'sorry sorry sorry I didn't mean it/I didn't post that sorry sorry plz forgive me'? There's nothing wrong with laughing as those pissant fans and that ****tard owner writhe while watching LeBron's 'supporting cast' flop around like a bunch of brain damaged fish. Stick by your words.


Sneaker sales.

A poor image means parents won't be buying Lebron James gear for their kids.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

I think he gets drunk and tweets these things, and then the next morning Pat Riley yells at him, and then he has to backtrack, but he does so in a half assed way that no one believes.

He was reading the Art of War while getting treatment on his ankle today, apparently. So maybe this is all part of some elaborate war game?


----------



## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

we should just have an official lebron thread


everyone can then post every and anything lebron in there


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Instant Karma's gonna get you, 
Gonna look you right in the face, 
Better get yourself together darlin', 
Join the human race, 
How in the world you gonna see, 
Laughin' at fools like me, 
Who on earth d'you think you are? 
A super star? 
Well, right you are. 

@ 30 point drubbing, missed game due to injury - Lebron you are correct, Karma is a bitch


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Tragedy said:


> Sneaker sales.
> 
> A poor image means parents won't be buying Lebron James gear for their kids.


I'd say whether LeBron has a poor image or not has already been largely decided for the duration (by his move to Miami and whether or not you see it as a meanie move by a classless super-moron doodoohead, or as someone exercising his right to leave via FA). Barring serious injury or some kind of criminal activity, there isn't a whole lot LeBron can do at this point that will strongly affect his image/product sales at this point, I don't think. Trash talk isn't a crime, and LeBron's not even saying very inflammatory things.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



futuristxen said:


> I think he gets drunk and tweets these things, and then the next morning Pat Riley yells at him, and then he has to backtrack, but he does so in a half assed way that no one believes.
> 
> He was reading the Art of War while getting treatment on his ankle today, apparently. So maybe this is all part of some elaborate war game?


I think the first rule of reading the art of war is to not let anyone know you're reading the art of war


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



futuristxen said:


> He was reading the Art of War


:lol:

I sincerely doubt he will be able to understand it.


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Floods said:


> I'd say whether LeBron has a poor image or not has already been largely decided for the duration (by his move to Miami and whether or not you see it as a meanie move by a classless super-moron doodoohead, or as someone exercising his right to leave via FA). Barring serious injury or some kind of criminal activity, there isn't a whole lot LeBron can do at this point that will strongly affect his image/product sales at this point, I don't think. Trash talk isn't a crime, and LeBron's not even saying very inflammatory things.


His *MORON* status has nothing to do with his leaving via FA, which I think anyone outside of Cleveland and anyone who has an inkling of common sense understands he was fully within his rights to do so.

His *MORON* status has everything to do with his ill-timed and ill-fated "decision" and just about every moronic move since then, which have been quite numerous and quite detailed within even the confines of this forum.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Karma definitely got him back though


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

5 years ago Kobe was an alleged rapist who ratted out his teammate in the interrogation room, threw a basketball at his coaches bad feet, took a half off during a game, (allegedly quit during that Suns game 7 too), blew a finals game by shooting til right before his arms were gonna fall off, and contributed to the energy that derailed potentially the dynasty of the 00s. 

But now he's the OG. And noone has mentioned _any_ of that on here in a long time.

LeBron will be fine.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Dre™;6459757 said:


> 5 years ago Kobe was an alleged rapist who ratted out his teammate in the interrogation room, threw a basketball at his coaches bad feet, took a half off during a game, (allegedly quit during that Suns game 7 too), blew a finals game by shooting til right before his arms were gonna fall off, and contributed to the energy that derailed potentially the dynasty of the 00s.
> 
> But now he's the OG. And noone has mentioned _any_ of that on here in a long time.
> 
> LeBron will be fine.


We all have agreed that Kobe is an ******* that's why.

Now we are publicly voting on Lebron before deciding


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Not even. The media swept *all* that under the rug


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Dre™ said:


> Not even. The media swept *all* that under the rug


Kobe wasn't running his mouth every chance he had when that **** was going down though. 

If all we had to talk about with Lebron was still him leaving the Cavs there'd be a hell of a lot less Lebron news. Instead, the dick head takes any chance he can to grab the spot light and run his mouth. 

Show me a Kobe tweet that we should make a thread about. There aren't any. Lebrons getting what he wants. He wants you to talk about him.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

and it helps Kobe's case that Shaq has been so publicly a douche over the last few years to the point that people go 'oh, well maybe it wasnt just so one sided'


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Raping that chick was pretty one sided.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Sir Patchwork said:


> No fan is going to get the last laugh on a multi-millionaire hall of famer. It would be kind of sad for some loser somewhere to be like "yeah I got the last laugh on Karl Malone, I knew he'd never win a title"


You're taking the "last laugh" thing too literally. 



> Though he doesn't have to win a ring to justify the move, because he may have never won with Cleveland either. Look at that team this year. Historically bad. Can't believe people thought that team was a good supporting cast.


that lousy supporting cast made the Cavs the best regular season team for two straight years. Obviously, Lebron had a major impact. But he was NOt scoring/rebounding/defending/whatever ALONE.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



futuristxen said:


> Will we get your annual Die Cavs, Die thread this year? For old time's sake?


I will have to addapt (sp?) this year.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Hyperion said:


> Raping that chick was pretty one sided.


Where you there? Did you watch the whole thing?
Cause i can't find any court ruling or any testimony that the whole ordeal went the way you are discribing it.
Why the hell were you in the room, in the first place?


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

He actually admitted to going to far as part of his court settlement, so even Kobe disagrees with you.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



E.H. Munro said:


> He actually admitted to going to far as part of his court settlement, so even Kobe disagrees with you.


Link, please.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

When there ended up being multiple random jiz stains on her panties she lost some credibility. 


Getting a little tiresome that Lebron backers always try to turn things into a Kobe thread. Kobe isn't the one tweeting and acting like an *******.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



PauloCatarino said:


> Where you there? Did you watch the whole thing?
> Cause i can't find any court ruling or any testimony that the whole ordeal went the way you are discribing it.
> Why the hell were you in the room, in the first place?


yeah, you really give laker's fans their label. 

You lose.


> After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Hyperion said:


> yeah, you really give laker's fans their label.


What "label" should that be, Young Grasshopper, considering i'm not the prototypical (sp?) Laker fan... 



> You lose.


You forgot this: 


> * Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual,* I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did.


So, yeah, YOU lose, Eager Bunny...

And oh, did you adress already what R-Star posted?


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

:sigh:

Wherever there is a LeBron thread, a Kobe post cannot be far behind to infect it.

You guys really are amazing.


----------



## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

I blame Kobe.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



E.H. Munro said:


> He actually admitted to going to far as part of his court settlement, so even Kobe disagrees with you.


going too far during an act of consensual sex and taking it to a place which she wasnt comfortable with after the fact


----------



## Noyze (Oct 7, 2010)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

They are losing by 20 right now to Utah. The Jazz have 70 points at half lol.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Heated said:


> I blame Kobe.


Thanks for adding to the thread, chump.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



e-monk said:


> going too far during an act of consensual sex and taking it to a place which she wasnt comfortable with after the fact


A few things here, first, it doesn't matter that she consented to straight sex. Consenting to one sex act does not entitle one partner to then do _anything_. She might find the act of someone going in through her out door exceptionally painful, and consenting to vaginal intercourse does not open the field to _everything_. 

Second (and this isn't aimed at you so much as some of the neanderthals upthread), the perpetrator's _beliefs_ aren't really pertinent. A random person might believe that his sexual partner consented to being tied down and forced to sniff his unwashed armpits, regardless of their screams of horror. In the American system of jurisprudence simply believing that you're obeying the law is simply irrelevant. 

Third (again, this isn't aimed at you so much as the knuckledraggers), having sex does not automatically mean that a woman couldn't possibly have been sexually assaulted. Sex is a natural phenomenon, and younger adults have a lot of it. Does having multiple sexual partners over the course of a day make a man a rapist? It's about as logical as the flipside belief, which is really nothing more than a variant of "The bitch had it coming". It's a misogynist sentiment that really has no place in the modern world.

Lastly, the woman's name was leaked, which resulted in the entirety of Douchebag Nation (which is a small, but vocal minority of Laker fans) calling Kate Faber with death threats, etc., which was the primary reason that she stopped cooperating with the police. (Allegedly the most disturbing of the phone calls came from a middle aged man that said, between heavy breaths, "Eu quero que você lamber o queijo da minha parte interna das coxas." No one's sure what that was about.)


----------



## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Kobe changed. Not nearly as arrogant on the floor, dropped much of the Jordan imitation act, started actually talking in a few interviews. And then he went out and led his team to multiple titles. 

LeBron is a d-bag, but so what. Most everybody involved with the NBA is. 

What I can't handle is ESPN essentially becoming LeBron James' propaganda machine under the guise of legitimate journalism. Tonight they even started playing the race card, since their WWE-style theatrics don't seem to be engendering much good will amongst the customer base. 

ESPN is so slimy it makes me sick, they've been headed down this road for some time but the steps they are taking now remind of political campaign style agendas and manipulation of the facts. They even co-opted Henry Abbott, for pete's sake. 

Do they have to ruin everything that is good about sports? Too bad ESPN has a virtual monopoly on sports in this country.


----------



## BeeGee (Jul 9, 2010)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



E.H. Munro said:


> He actually admitted to going to far as part of his court settlement, so even Kobe disagrees with you.


I don't think he admitted to going too far. He apologized for his behavior and offered that she viewed the incident differently than he did. It was basically "I apologize for hurting you, but I wasn't aware - I thought we were on the same page.."



Kobe said:


> First, I want to apologize directly to the young woman involved in this incident. I want to apologize to her for my behavior that night and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year. Although this year has been incredibly difficult for me personally, I can only imagine the pain she has had to endure. I also want to apologize to her parents and family members, and to my family and friends and supporters, and to the citizens of Eagle, Colo.
> 
> I also want to make it clear that I do not question the motives of this young woman. No money has been paid to this woman. She has agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil case. Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter.
> 
> I issue this statement today fully aware that while one part of this case ends today, another remains. I understand that the civil case against me will go forward. That part of this case will be decided by and between the parties directly involved in the incident and will no longer be a financial or emotional drain on the citizens of the state of Colorado.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Ron said:


> :sigh:
> 
> Wherever there is a LeBron thread, a Kobe post cannot be far behind to infect it.
> 
> You guys really are amazing.


That's a pretty weak observation. My initial point was people are acting like LeBron will never recover, I was merely pointing out people thought the same of Kobe 5 years ago.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



BeeGee said:


> I don't think he admitted to going too far. He apologized for his behavior and offered that she viewed the incident differently than he did. It was basically "I apologize for hurting you, but I wasn't aware - I thought we were on the same page.."


That's a tacit admission that he went too far. If I were to punch you in the nose, because I thought you wanted me to punch you, would you accept "But I thought we were on the same page!" as a valid excuse? The answer is no. The fact that people want to draw this distinction with regard to sex is reflective of an antiquated attitude towards women. Consent to vaginal intercourse is not consent to _everything_.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

There's nothing about basketball in this thread is there? I looked at a couple of pages...It seems to be some sort schoolgirl on schoolgirl violence, but I can't figure out what they're mad at each other about.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

And the worst part is that there's no photos of hawt chicks in plaid skirts pulling each others hair to make it worth our while.


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Dre™ said:


> That's a pretty weak observation. My initial point was people are acting like LeBron will never recover, I was merely pointing out people thought the same of Kobe 5 years ago.


All you have to do to send a hillside of dry weeds into an infernal is a very tiny flame.


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Diable said:


> There's nothing about basketball in this thread is there? I looked at a couple of pages...It seems to be some sort schoolgirl on schoolgirl violence, but I can't figure out what they're mad at each other about.


Some threads meander like the Mississippi on this board...usually you will find it ending up in some kind LeBron vs. Kobe orgy.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Ron said:


> All you have to do to send a hillside of dry weeds into an infernal is a very tiny flame.


I'll note that once I run into an infernal


----------



## BeeGee (Jul 9, 2010)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



E.H. Munro said:


> That's a tacit admission that he went too far. If I were to punch you in the nose, because I thought you wanted me to punch you, would you accept "But I thought we were on the same page!" as a valid excuse? The answer is no. The fact that people want to draw this distinction with regard to sex is reflective of an antiquated attitude towards women. Consent to vaginal intercourse is not consent to _everything_.


Wrong. Actually it's exactly the opposite. It's a roundabout way of admitting nothing. The only thing that is implied is that he thought everything was cool and realized after the fact that she didn't. And who cares whether it's a valid "excuse" or not. Just because I apologize for breaking your face doesn't mean that I'm admitting I took it too far. I thought we were fighting and you thought we were shadowboxing. I'm just apologizing for the fact that you wound with a fractured skull after all of it.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Dre™ said:


> That's a pretty weak observation. My initial point was people are acting like LeBron will never recover, I was merely pointing out people thought the same of Kobe 5 years ago.


Its a valid point. What are we talking about now? Kobe. Not Lebron.

It's the biggest tool in the Lebron fanboy toolbox. If all else fails, bring up Kobe and try to turn the conversation. 

_"Oh yea? Well Kobe raped a girl!"_

Happens in every Lebron thread.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



E.H. Munro said:


> And the worst part is that there's no photos of hawt chicks in plaid skirts pulling each others hair to make it worth our while.


How about some cupcakes?


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

That girl is going to regret that sleave sooner rather than later.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



R-Star said:


> Its a valid point. What are we talking about now? Kobe. Not Lebron.
> 
> It's the biggest tool in the Lebron fanboy toolbox. If all else fails, bring up Kobe and try to turn the conversation.
> 
> ...


Someone brought up that Kobe overcame the Shaq/Kobe feud and I merely pointed out that many people didn't view him as a bad guy for that, they viewed him as a bad guy for raping a chick. Then the Kobe apologists started going, "Nu uh!" and "They never proved it!" It's as bad as the OJ apologists. "He was acquitted, he didn't do it!"

The main difference is that Kobe stayed in LA where his crazy fans would defend him to the death and shout down anyone who points out his scumbaggery while Lebron has no real fan base anymore. He has no apologists saying that Cleveland had is coming or that he didn't realize they would take it that way.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

I'm just saying, every Lebron threads turns into a Kobe rape/Kobe Shaq gong show. Every single time. It's a Lebron fanboy tactic. 

And comparing Kobe to OJ is crazy. Nichole is dead. Kobes girl mentally unbalanced slut.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



R-Star said:


> I'm just saying, every Lebron threads turns into a Kobe rape/Kobe Shaq gong show. Every single time. It's a Lebron fanboy tactic.
> 
> And comparing Kobe to OJ is crazy. Nichole is dead. Kobes girl mentally unbalanced slut.


correction: a rich mentally unbalanced slut.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Hyperion said:


> How about some cupcakes?


Ha. This was my computer screen saver thingy ma jiggy for a solid two years. I had almost forgot how amazing both those girls were.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



BeeGee said:


> Wrong. Actually it's exactly the opposite. It's a roundabout way of admitting nothing. The only thing that is implied is that he thought everything was cool and realized after the fact that she didn't.


When Ted Bundy was raping and murdering those sorority girls, he thought everything was cool, it was only later when he was arrested that he realised that they didn't. See how stupid that sounds?



BeeGee said:


> Just because I apologize for breaking your face doesn't mean that I'm admitting I took it too far. I thought we were fighting and you thought we were shadowboxing.


A man walks into a bank and hands the teller a note demanding all the money in her cash drawer, he thinks he's making a withdrawal, does that mean that he isn't going to be charged with robbery when he's arrested? In your equally stupid scenario the law wouldn't care what you "thought", you'd be charged with mayhem anyway


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



E.H. Munro said:


> When Ted Bundy was raping and murdering those sorority girls, he thought everything was cool, it was only later when he was arrested that he realised that they didn't. See how stupid that sounds?


this is factually in error as anyone who has read The Stranger Beside Me can attest - Bundy knew what he was doing and took great pleasure in the transgressiveness of his acts


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



E.H. Munro said:


> In your equally stupid scenario the law wouldn't care what you "thought", you'd be charged with mayhem anyway


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



e-monk said:


> this is factually in error as anyone who has read The Stranger Beside Me can attest - Bundy knew what he was doing and took great pleasure in the transgressiveness of his acts


Doesn't really matter. BeeGee and others are claiming that as long as you don't think you're committing a crime then you aren't. I was positing theoreticals to illustrate that the only place where individuals make this artificial distinction is in regards sexual assault on women. Legally speaking, the only crime where motive is even considered is in "hate crimes" and there it only matters in the sense that it adds to your sentence. 

Motive isn't supposed to be a part of sexual assault cases, it's only there due to lingering misogyny in the male psyche. And I should, in fairness, point out that this attitude doesn't reflect in actual jury pools, as once in jury pools men are more likely to convict than women. It's out here in the wild that men turn into cro-magnons where the subject of sexual assault comes up.

Bryant essentially acknowledged that he'd gone too far with his apology. So for 99.99% of humanity it's a settled matter, Mr. Bean is a typical rich douchebag that uses his cash to buy his way out of difficulty. No big deal, it's actually incredibly common: OJ, Robert Blake, any number of Disney starlets, etc.. Phil Spector is one of the few members of the celebrity class to actually pay for his transgression, and in his case it's probably more to do with the fact that his celebrity is forty years plus out of date.

And none of that impacts his marketability, hence my quoting a friend in the ad business up thread, it says everything you need to know about the American consumer public.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



E.H. Munro said:


> Doesn't really matter. BeeGee and others are claiming that as long as you don't think you're committing a crime then you aren't. I was positing theoreticals to illustrate that the only place where individuals make this artificial distinction is in regards sexual assault on women. Legally speaking, the only crime where motive is even considered is in "hate crimes" and there it only matters in the sense that it adds to your sentence.
> 
> Motive isn't supposed to be a part of sexual assault cases, it's only there due to lingering misogyny in the male psyche. And I should, in fairness, point out that this attitude doesn't reflect in actual jury pools, as once in jury pools men are more likely to convict than women. It's out here in the wild that men turn into cro-magnons where the subject of sexual assault comes up.
> 
> ...


Keep this thread on topic, or I'll lock it and ban every last one of you.

Don't make me do it.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Keep it up and you're getting re-named Basel-star...again.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

You're pushing for a 1 week suspension here EH. You're leaving me with little options.


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## simply_amazing (Aug 23, 2009)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Fixed.



R-Star said:


> I'm just saying, every Lebron threads turns into a Kobe rape/Kobe Shaq gong show. Every single time. It's a Lebron fanboy tactic.
> 
> And comparing Kobe to OJ is crazy. Nichole is dead. *Kobe is a mentally unbalanced slut*.


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Dre™ said:


> 5 years ago Kobe was an alleged rapist who ratted out his teammate in the interrogation room, threw a basketball at his coaches bad feet, took a half off during a game, (allegedly quit during that Suns game 7 too), blew a finals game by shooting til right before his arms were gonna fall off, and contributed to the energy that derailed potentially the dynasty of the 00s.
> 
> But now he's the OG. And noone has mentioned _any_ of that on here in a long time.
> 
> LeBron will be fine.


You make a great point, but for the love of God can you stop typing "noone" as one word. It just looks retarded.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



simply_amazing said:


> Fixed.


That's not very nice. I don't think you fixed anything there, if you want my personal opinion on the matter.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



hobojoe said:


> You make a great point, but for the love of God can you stop typing "noone" as one word. It just looks retarded.


I think he's referring to Peter Noone.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

I always read it as noon, then see the e and think "Lazy ****ing morons."


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



hobojoe said:


> You make a great point, but for the love of God can you stop typing "noone" as one word. It just looks retarded.


I can't get caught up in silly details when the thoughts are flowing :whoknows:


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

You better start playing by the rules *******.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

*Noone* talks to me like that


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

That's only because Noone cares about you.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

No he deosn't. Peter Noone hates him and everything he stands for.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Has any one from this thread who called out Lebron for Karma, themselves had some kind of karmatic backlash for gloating in the same manner that Lebron did?

A study of karma


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## BeeGee (Jul 9, 2010)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



E.H. Munro said:


> When Ted Bundy was raping and murdering those sorority girls, he thought everything was cool, it was only later when he was arrested that he realised that they didn't. See how stupid that sounds?


Yup, about as stupid as reaching for Ted Bundy to support a point you can't make about a basketball player.


E.H. Munro said:


> A man walks into a bank and hands the teller a note demanding all the money in her cash drawer, he thinks he's making a withdrawal, does that mean that he isn't going to be charged with robbery when he's arrested? In your equally stupid scenario the law wouldn't care what you "thought", you'd be charged with mayhem anyway


You got one part right. All of this is stupid. The bottom line is in order to support your original statement, you have to take Kobe's apology as an implication that he went too far. You have to do this despite the fact that the closest that he comes to any admission of said implication is saying that he thought she was fine with everything and realized later that she wasn't. 

Kobe never offered that he took anything too far, nor did he imply it in his apology.


----------



## edabomb (Feb 12, 2005)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

I definitely think that for historical reasons the last couple of games box scores should read 'LeBron James - DNP Karma's decision'.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



BeeGee said:


> Yup, about as stupid as reaching for Ted Bundy to support a point you can't make about a basketball player.


Let me spell this out in terms so simple that even people that believe _Loose Change_ can understand it. _The law does not care what you believe as regards your crime_. It really doesn't give a **** if you thought it was cool to steal a car under the delusion that you were just borrowing it. It just doesn't give a **** that you thought it was OK.



BeeGee said:


> The bottom line is in order to support your original statement, you have to take Kobe's apology as an implication that he went too far. You have to do this despite the fact that the closest that he comes to any admission of said implication is saying that he thought she was fine with everything and realized later that she wasn't.


Let me guess, you were one of the idiots that phoned in 3000 death threats, weren't you? Even your attempt at defending this is completely and utterly retarded. When someone says "In retrospect I can see why she feels like she was sexually assaulted," they're pretty much saying "I ignored the screams of no because I didn't give a ****, thankfully I have a ****load of money to buy my way out of this."


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Ron said:


> His *MORON* status has nothing to do with his leaving via FA, which I think anyone outside of Cleveland and anyone who has an inkling of common sense understands he was fully within his rights to do so.
> 
> His *MORON* status has everything to do with his ill-timed and ill-fated "decision" and just about every moronic move since then, which have been quite numerous and quite detailed within even the confines of this forum.


The Decision was moronic only in that it gave all the little bitches nationwide a crutch on which to endlessly slam LeBron for turning his back on poor Cleveland, and for making an unpopular decision that spelled big, big trouble for every other team in the league. I don't care about the act itself, no one should. It's petty whining at it's finest. What were we all gonna do on that Thursday night, watch early July baseball? Oh yay.

Would anyone have given a **** if LeBron announced on that show that he would remain in Cleveland? No. Same amount of attention-whoring, same amount of publicly snubbed franchises, but the feel good story of him staying with the Cavs (and dooming himself to mediocrity) would smooth everything right over.

What I'm trying to say is, everyone's (or 99% of everyone) animosity toward LeBron all traces back to the sole item of him jumping to Miami. 

As for 'every moronic move since', well that's a subjective take on it. He's just talking, not taking part in any harmful or criminal activities like the NFL dog slayer everyone now forgives and is celebrating for resurrecting his career. You see, I have this bizarre philosophy called 'live and let live', which lets me focus on the game itself, and not obsess myself with something as useless as endlessly slamming a character whom I don't know, has never done anything to me, and is doing nothing wrong. You say ABSOLUTE SUPER UBER MORON, I focus myself with what matters most and I enjoy the most - the games.

Much stupider/more irrelevant/more inflammatory things were said by Gilbert Arenas back in the day anyway, and everyone thought he was adorable and fun, while LeBron says mildly provocative things that he constantly apologizes for, and everyone thinks he's satan now.


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

This thread has turned into something awesome...love the back and forth.

I am marking this thread as a classic.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Floods said:


> The Decision was moronic only in that it gave all the little bitches nationwide a crutch on which to endlessly slam LeBron for turning his back on poor Cleveland, and for making an unpopular decision that spelled big, big trouble for every other team in the league. I don't care about the act itself, no one should. It's petty whining at it's finest. What were we all gonna do on that Thursday night, watch early July baseball? Oh yay.
> 
> Would anyone have given a **** if LeBron announced on that show that he would remain in Cleveland? No. Same amount of attention-whoring, same amount of publicly snubbed franchises, but the feel good story of him staying with the Cavs (and dooming himself to mediocrity) would smooth everything right over.
> 
> ...


My animosity for Lebron came from the dancing.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

It's early and I didn't sleep well last night so my thoughts may not be as cognizant as I want them, but do you think all of this animosity toward Lebron is what a superstar must go through before he becomes one of those GOAT players? Just look at previous superstars and the controversy that surrounded them. Jordan - ball hog, Duncan - boring, Kobe - selfish/childish, Shaq - sucks at FTs and rapping, Magic - coach killer. People will latch on to anything to undercut someone who is achieving greatness until their greatness is undeniable. I guess it's a crucible of sorts.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Duncan is boring, Jordan did have gambling problems, the best defense against Shaq WAS to send him to the freethrow line. Vince Carter was/is a fragile pussy, AI did think he was too good to practice, etc. All of this is true, and it doesn't take away from the fact that Lebron is a douche bag. People call him that, because that's what he is. Not because its a right of passage. Lebron was already in GOAT discussions before people thought he was a dick head.

People harped on Reggie Miller and Jermaine O'Neal all the time when they were on the Pacers, far more than anyone complained about Duncan being boring, and its not like either are in the same world as Lebron,Kobe,Jordan,Duncan,Shaq. They complained because Reggie was a loud mouth and a flopper. They complained because JO was soft and refused to bang inside after he got his big contract. Those were all true stories about two star players. Not a right of passage.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

L3


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Hyperion said:


> It's early and I didn't sleep well last night so my thoughts may not be as cognizant as I want them, but do you think all of this animosity toward Lebron is what a superstar must go through before he becomes one of those GOAT players? Just look at previous superstars and the controversy that surrounded them. Jordan - ball hog, Duncan - boring, Kobe - selfish/childish, Shaq - sucks at FTs and rapping, Magic - coach killer. People will latch on to anything to undercut someone who is achieving greatness until their greatness is undeniable. I guess it's a crucible of sorts.


Yeah no..I'm not buying most of those labels as something someone is picking out of the sky, they were all notable aspects of a player's character that in some cases hindered them from reaching full potential. 

The Duncan-boring thing is a reach though. You'll find just as many people celebrate him for his fundamentals.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



R-Star said:


> People harped on Reggie Miller and Jermaine O'Neal all the time when they were on the Pacers,


No one talked about JO all of the time.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



futuristxen said:


> No one talked about JO all of the time.


It was before Lebron was in the league, so you weren't a fan yet bandwagon. 


And yea, they did. Go back and look at threads about big men in the early 2000's. JO was up there with Duncan, KG, Dirk, Sheed and Webber at the time. He was 3rd in MVP voting one year. So yea, he was. Just because you didn't start watching basketball until your hero Lebron played doesn't mean it didn't exist. So how's about you quit looking off stat sheets to try to find out who was talked about back in the day?

Also, if you'd like to re read the post you quoted, that wasn't really the point now was it. The point was that players get lables, and that doesn't change the fact that Lebron is a douche bag.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Yeah people on here used to universally hate JO. They whined about his durability and how he was always shooting jumpshots.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

both of which things were true of course


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



R-Star said:


> It was before Lebron was in the league, so you weren't a fan yet bandwagon.


Oh right. Good call.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Dre™ said:


> Yeah people on here used to universally hate JO. They whined about his durability and how he was always shooting jumpshots.


You joined the same year I did.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



R-Star said:


> Duncan is boring, Jordan did have gambling problems, the best defense against Shaq WAS to send him to the freethrow line. Vince Carter was/is a fragile pussy, AI did think he was too good to practice, etc. All of this is true, and it doesn't take away from the fact that Lebron is a douche bag. People call him that, because that's what he is. Not because its a right of passage. Lebron was already in GOAT discussions before people thought he was a dick head.
> 
> People harped on Reggie Miller and Jermaine O'Neal all the time when they were on the Pacers, far more than anyone complained about Duncan being boring, and its not like either are in the same world as Lebron,Kobe,Jordan,Duncan,Shaq. They complained because Reggie was a loud mouth and a flopper. They complained because JO was soft and refused to bang inside after he got his big contract. Those were all true stories about two star players. Not a right of passage.


At some point, people stopped calling Duncan boring, stopped calling Reggie a flopper, stopped calling Magic a coach killer, stopped talking about Shaq's FTs, Kobe's Kobeness etc. The ones you still lampoon didn't make it through the crucible of public opinion.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Hyperion said:


> At some point, people stopped calling Duncan boring, stopped calling Reggie a flopper, stopped calling Magic a coach killer, stopped talking about Shaq's FTs, Kobe's Kobeness etc. The ones you still lampoon didn't make it through the crucible of public opinion.


Reggie was known as a flopper his whole career. Kobe for the most part grew up and quit being such a cry baby, and Shaq was known for being terrible at free throws and downright stupid up until he wasn't all that dominant anymore.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

and btw Magic wasnt a coach killer - most of the team hated Westhead and Buss was already thinking about making a change 5 games before Magic and PW clashed 

also PW was an idiot to have a player like Magic on his roster and try to run a slow down offense which is probably why Buss wanted him gone in the first place


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## johnnyb (Nov 20, 2010)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

News Flash:

LeBron is a d!ck. Doesn't change his ability to play basketball though...just ask Kobe

J-


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



johnnyb said:


> News Flash:
> 
> LeBron is a d!ck. Doesn't change his ability to play basketball though...just ask Kobe
> 
> J-


No one is questioning Lebrons ability. 

They'd be idiots if they did.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Hyperion said:


> It's early and I didn't sleep well last night so my thoughts may not be as cognizant as I want them, but do you think all of this animosity toward Lebron is what a superstar must go through before he becomes one of those GOAT players? Just look at previous superstars and the controversy that surrounded them. Jordan - ball hog, Duncan - boring, Kobe - selfish/childish, Shaq - sucks at FTs and rapping, Magic - coach killer. People will latch on to anything to undercut someone who is achieving greatness until their greatness is undeniable. I guess it's a crucible of sorts.


Possibly, but that's another discussion, since LeBron was on his way to that level anyway whether he jumped to Miami, stayed in Cleveland, or anything in between.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



R-Star said:


> No one is questioning Lebrons ability.
> 
> They'd be idiots if they did.


You heard him, LeBron's a d!ck. SO THERE.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



futuristxen said:


> You joined the same year I did.


And I still remember those posts so that has nothing to do with anything. JO wasn't even in his full prime until 03ish when I started.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Dre™ said:


> And I still remember those posts so that has nothing to do with anything. JO wasn't even in his full prime until 03ish when I started.


I think maybe there's a misunderstanding here. I remember when people talked about JO, them saying those things. But I don't remember him being a huge focal point of discussion like Lebron, Kobe, T-Mac, AI ect. That's why I said nobody talked about JO.

Maybe people were talking about JO more than Kobe-T-mac back then, and I just blocked it out because of how boring I thought JO was...who knows.


----------



## BeeGee (Jul 9, 2010)

*re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



E.H. Munro said:


> Let me spell this out in terms so simple that even people that believe _Loose Change_ can understand it. _The law does not care what you believe as regards your crime_. It really doesn't give a **** if you thought it was cool to steal a car under the delusion that you were just borrowing it. It just doesn't give a **** that you thought it was OK.


I'll spell it out in terms that even the most narcissitic know-it-alls that believe planes disintegrate metal skyscrapers can humble themselves to (NOT): Just because you consider an apology an admission of guilt, doesn't make it an admission of guilt. Sorry, but you'll need more than Ted Bundy reference and your typical babble to prove this asinine point.



E.H. Munro said:


> Let me guess, you were one of the idiots that phoned in 3000 death threats, weren't you? Even your attempt at defending this is completely and utterly retarded. When someone says "In retrospect I can see why she feels like she was sexually assaulted," they're pretty much saying "I ignored the screams of no because I didn't give a ****, thankfully I have a ****load of money to buy my way out of this."











And let me guess, you're one of the idiots that still gets pissed on the behalf of Kate Faber, aren't you? Alter quotes much? The quote from the apology was "After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter." Who am I to stop a dumbass from taking that as an admission of anything, though? There are people that like to argue for the sake of arguing. They often say things without thinking. And then there are the people that come along and make the arguer look/feel stupid about what they said. So while you're too much of an egomaniac to admit that you took an apology as an admission of guilt, you're smart enough to know that the only way to not show your bruised ego is to try and lead the basis of the argument into complete rhetoric, and hope that it gets lost in the created confusion. Only problem is I see right through your schtick. Kobe never implied that he went too far. No matter how much you try and misquote or twist what he actually said. Go dust off your ego and get some more anti conspiracy-theorist or John Wayne Gacy babble for your rebuttal.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Ummm, that is an admission of guilt. admitting that another party could view the incident as less than consensual means that he did rape her.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Why the **** are we still talking about Kobe?

And if I see another stupid UMad picture by some dumb ****ing kid, or even worse, an adult who isn't smart enough to articulate a decent argument, then I'm going to pay the money to fly to their city and smack them around.

Honestly, you ****ing picture posters are god damn terrible. "Uh oh, can't think of a decent argument.... I know, I'll post a funny picture saying he's mad..... or maybe I'll call him a hater! That'll work!"

Do better. And again, this is a Lebron thread. We had enough Kobe rape threads back in the day.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

So we're going to ignore the long ass paragraph BeeGee put up after that picture?


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



R-Star said:


> Why the **** are we still talking about Kobe?
> 
> And if I see another stupid UMad picture by some dumb ****ing kid, or even worse, an adult who isn't smart enough to articulate a decent argument, then I'm going to pay the money to fly to their city and smack them around.
> 
> ...


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Dre™ said:


> So we're going to ignore the long ass paragraph BeeGee put up after that picture?


I'll respond to his paragraph.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Dre™ said:


> So we're going to ignore the long ass paragraph BeeGee put up after that picture?


I hope so. Why the **** is the Kobe rape charge being discussed over the last god knows how many pages? I read BeeGees response and it was a good one. I agree with him and EH doesn't have much, if any ground to stand on.

That doesn't mean I don't hate UMad pictures, or the pathetic tactic Lebron fans use of bringing up Kobe everytime things don't go their way.


And now there's Star Wars, Metal Slug and Machine Gun Cat showing up every time I go to reply? Good ****.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

I remember back in the day I said it's impossible for a black man to think Kobe raped the accuser. On MLK day that is even more fitting.

Credit her bravery for going through with the civil case and collecting her money even though she wasn't brave enough to withstand the harassment that came with the criminal one.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

I don't think it was outright rape seeing as how she sounds like she was mentally unstable and a slut on top of all that, but I don't see why just because hes black any black dude has to stand behind him.

I'm not turning this into one of those threads though since I've already complained that we're off track.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Jamel Irief said:


> I'll respond to his paragraph.



That's lame. Noone just uses pictures and leaves it at that, unless they've been arguing for a good 3-4 exchanges. Make an EBB thread and show examples of that happening in here.

But we have to stop discussing it here and focus on the topic at hand before another thread ends up closed.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



R-Star said:


> I don't think it was outright rape seeing as how she sounds like she was mentally unstable and a slut on top of all that, but I don't see why just because hes black any black dude has to stand behind him.
> 
> I'm not turning this into one of those threads though since I've already complained that we're off track.


Not what I meant. The burden of proof is on the accuser and she doesn't have much. Hell look at what the honky munro is offering as evidence.

There are enough black men wrongfully accused as criminals in this country for minorities to want to jump the gun on one that's (wrongly or rightfully) looked up to as a role model based on some quotes.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Dre™ said:


> That's lame. Noone just uses pictures and leaves it at that, unless they've been arguing for a good 3-4 exchanges. Make an EBB thread and show examples of that happening in here.
> 
> But we have to stop discussing it here and focus on the topic at hand before another thread ends up closed.


I like how I posted that picture and you concluded all types of points I didn't intend to make. Shows you how dumb picture responses are huh?


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Jamel Irief said:


> Not what I meant. The burden of proof is on the accuser and she doesn't have much. Hell look at what the honky munro is offering as evidence.
> 
> There are enough black men wrongfully accused as criminals in this country for minorities to want to jump the gun on one that's (wrongly or rightfully) looked up to as a role model based on some quotes.


Fair enough, I agree with that.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Jamel Irief said:


> I like how I posted that picture and you concluded all types of points I didn't intend to make. Shows you how dumb picture responses are huh?


We should give him and his picture buddies one thread to post their stupid garbage in and leave it at that. 

The whole argument that it somehow _adds_ to their response is bull****. I don't see how a cat with a machine gun gets my point across any better.

They're weak posters who can't articulate well enough so they resort to stupid pictures. I'm going to complain until somethings done. That's what I do. I throw a temper tantrum when I don't get my way. Like a little girl, or some sort of snot nosed 8 year old who has no friends. That's R-Star.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Also, if another thread is locked by complaining about the pictures, I'm going to open up a **** storm on this website. 

Ron and EH have been off topic in this thread for days and its still open, but as soon as someone complains about pictures a certain couple of comm mods decide its time to shut it down.

I'm done talking about it, but just letting you know in advance on how a thread lock would play out.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



BeeGee said:


> I'm an idiot


Admitting it is the first step towards changing it.



BeeGee said:


> Just because you consider an apology an admission of guilt, doesn't make it an admission of guilt. Sorry, but you'll need more than Ted Bundy reference and your typical babble to prove this asinine point.


So let me get this absolutely straight, you're saying that stealing a car isn't a felony so long as you claim you thought you were borrowing it? Even though you actually stole it? 



BeeGee said:


> And let me guess, you're one of the idiots that still gets pissed on the behalf of Kate Faber, aren't you?


No, I just take sexual assault seriously. I understand that three or four steps down the evolutionary ladder that that sort of thing is par for the course, but amongst **** sapiens sapiens born in the western hemisphere it's generally frowned upon. 

I can't think that anyone would have expected Bryant to ever do a day in stir over it because this is America and money & celebrity gets you a pass on everything (I mean, christ, OJ & Robert Blake got away with murdering their wives), so the fact that Faber was actually compensated for the assault puts her well ahead of the game. And thanks for your tacit admission that you were amongst the crowds of douchebag nation that harassed the girl.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Dre™;6462345 said:


> So we're going to ignore the long ass paragraph BeeGee put up after that picture?


As they're the barely literate rantings of a guy that thinks women deserve to be sexually assaulted if they consent to normal vaginal intercourse it's probably best to ignore it.



Jamel Irief said:


>


That is ****ing awesome, I need to find a smaller version and add it to the smiley list.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Add it as a smiley? Keep poking the ****ing bear EH. You and your god damn smileys are going to be the reason I get banned. Not me. You remember that when everyones wondering why this place is so boring in a few months.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Jamel Irief said:


> Not what I meant. The burden of proof is on the accuser and she doesn't have much. Hell look at what the honky munro is offering as evidence.
> 
> There are enough black men wrongfully accused as criminals in this country for minorities to want to jump the gun on one that's (wrongly or rightfully) looked up to as a role model based on some quotes.


The evidence in this case was the bruising on the victim and the blood spots of her own blood on the tee shirt that she was wearing. They more or less confirmed that _someone_ got too rough during the encounter. And bear out what Bryant was admitting to in his apology, he crossed the line between sex and sexual assault, and he compensated the victim as he ought have. 

I've said repeatedly that being a celebrity and being a sociopath have a lot in common these days; disconnection from reality, a coterie of people telling you that you're all that matters, the cash/fame to buy anything you want, etc.. At least in this case the victim got compensation for the whole incident. Bryant at least accepted responsibility for his actions. The knuckledraggers I find far more reprehensible.


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*

Since this LeBron *MORON* thread morphed into a Kobe *RAPIST* thread (just as you knew it would), I think a thread title change is in order.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These Two: LBJ is a MORON, Kobe is a RACIST, yada ad infinitu*

Hows about
*"Kobe had consensual sex, but is a rough lover. PLUS Fun with Moving Pictures!"*


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These Two: LBJ is a MORON, Kobe is a RAPIST, yada ad infinitu*

Kobe is racist?


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These Two: LBJ is a MORON, Kobe is a RAPIST, yada ad infinitu*

Hes racist towards young white girls.


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These Two: LBJ is a MORON, Kobe is a RAPIST, yada ad infinitu*



E.H. Munro said:


> Kobe is racist?


I keep ****ing it up. Changed.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These Two: LBJ is a MORON, Kobe is a RACIST, yada ad infinitu*



R-Star said:


> Hows about
> *"Kobe had consensual sex, but is a rough lover. PLUS Fun with Moving Pictures!"*


The next rant should be about Ron and EH using thread titles as their personal play-things.

Reminds me of when everyone had their name changed to Basel crap.
:tank:


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These Two: LBJ is a MORON, Kobe is a RAPIST, yada ad infinitu*

Who the hell would want to change their name to Basel anyways? 

Not me. That's for sure.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These Two: LBJ is a MORON, Kobe is a RAPIST, yada ad infinitu*

Keep it up, Basel-Star...


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

Are you bullying me? Is that what's happening here?


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

"Personal play-things?"

Sounds almost obscene.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

I think hes calling you a pervert. You should ban him. Show everyone here who's boss.


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

At least change his name to Basel Irief


----------



## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Dre™ said:


> That's lame. *Noone* just uses pictures and leaves it at that, unless they've been arguing for a good 3-4 exchanges. Make an EBB thread and show examples of that happening in here.
> 
> But we have to stop discussing it here and focus on the topic at hand before another thread ends up closed.


:catgun:


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

Maybe it was lunch time.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

Why do people care what strangers on the internet think about them? Talking to you Dre. If you want to post dumb gifs and write noone go ahead. If R-star bitches about it let him go ahead. Don't let it stress you.


----------



## Ron (May 8, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



Jamel Irief said:


> Why do people care what strangers on the internet think about them?


"Strangers on the Internet" sing it to Sinatra's classic.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

My opinion is important. Impressing me makes people feel of value and worth.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> My opinion is important. Impressing me makes people feel of value and worth.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

A Storm Trooper? I ****ing wish bro.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



Jamel Irief said:


> Why do people care what strangers on the internet think about them? Talking to you Dre. If you want to post dumb gifs and write noone go ahead. If R-star bitches about it let him go ahead. Don't let it stress you.


Are you talking to the guy who asked for it to be let go in this thread, comes back from work and still sees people talking about it? That's the one who's stressed out about it?


----------



## BeeGee (Jul 9, 2010)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



E.H. Munro said:


> Admitting it is the first step towards changing it.


And it's obviously time for you to take that second step..





E.H. Munro said:


> So let me get this absolutely straight, you're saying that stealing a car isn't a felony so long as you claim you thought you were borrowing it? Even though you actually stole it?


Excuse me, Mr. Know-it-all, but there's no need for analogies that don't fit here. There was sex. She claims he took it. He claims he didn't and that there was a mutual agreement. After looking back, he admits that he can see how she felt that he took it. But that doesn't mean that he took it, and he never waivered from his stance that he didn't take it and was absolutely innocent of any sexual assault. So matter how much you take it as an admission of guilt for the purpose of backing up your oringinal asinine statement, it wasn't.





E.H. Munro said:


> No, I just take sexual assault seriously. I understand that three or four steps down the evolutionary ladder that that sort of thing is par for the course, but amongst **** sapiens sapiens born in the western hemisphere it's generally frowned upon.
> 
> I can't think that anyone would have expected Bryant to ever do a day in stir over it because this is America and money & celebrity gets you a pass on everything (I mean, christ, OJ & Robert Blake got away with murdering their wives), so the fact that Faber was actually compensated for the assault puts her well ahead of the game. And thanks for your tacit admission that you were amongst the crowds of douchebag nation that harassed the girl.


You overtly labeling me as someone who harassed that woman is all you're left with here. I happen to think Kobe was guilty of sexually assaulting her. So as usual, you completely get caught up in your own babble, label me something without me even offering how I actually feel about it, and miss the mark by a mile. Whether or not me or you think he was guilty has nothing to do with the basis of this back & forth, genius. You said he admitted that he went too far when he did no such thing. The fact that sexual assault is horrible and that Kobe's celebrity (and her nasty panty habits) helped bail him out of a situation that he probably should've done time for, have nothing to do with this discussion. It only has to do with your claim that he made an admission that he absolutely avoided making. 

So as usual, E.H. You'll have to find someone else to apply your schtick to. Or maybe next time, you can think intelligently enough to realize that someone defending a statement a player made, doesn't necessarily mean that they're defending his actions. I know this hurts but the fact is you actually don't know it all, man. Admitting that you're a narcissistic know-it-all is the first step toward changing it. But you probably already know that, don't you? lmao


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> A Storm Trooper? I ****ing wish bro.


You do ****ing wish


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



BeeGee said:


> And it's obviously time for *me* to take that second step..


An excellent idea. First, stop re-watching _Loose Change_, it's bad for your critical thinking.



BeeGee said:


> Excuse me, Mr. Know-it-all, but there's no need for analogies that don't fit here. There was sex. She claims he took it. He claims he didn't and that there was a mutual agreement.


OK, I see what's wrong here, you actually don't know anything about the case. She did not claim that "he took sex". In fact, she was there for sex, what happened was that consent to normal vaginal intercourse did not amount to consent for the other party to do everything he wanted. Even he admitted that. The bruising on the victim and the blood on her tee shirt bore out her story. But, you didn't care, your Kobe needed you and you had her phone number on redial to leave her dirty messages...


----------



## johnnyb (Nov 20, 2010)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



Floods said:


> You heard him, LeBron's a d!ck. SO THERE.


Hmm...mockery?

I thought a lengthy comment on topic would dilute the back and forth I've been enjoying between BeeGee and E.H.

But, for the sake of those who found my comment too concise, allow me to expound:

LeBron seems to continually trip over his tongue, so much so that one local (los angeles) radio host suggested it is all an act. He speculates that this act was conceived by the PR department at Nike to make LeBron into an All-Star villain. I'm not sure about that, in fact it seems highly unlikely.

Then we have the LeBron apologists who, like the Kobe-boys, never fail to excuse the object of their affection, regardless of how crass he might be. LeBron has the right to play anywhere he likes, but the manner (re: collusion) in which he (and Bosh) joined the Heat was shady as hell. Bosh basically gave away that the "plan" for them to join together was hatched long ago. Why did LeBron choose to keep the Cavs in the dark about it? Why lead on the league? Some people speculate that LeBron wanted teams to clear roster/cap space for him, then once he went to Miami, those teams would be left undermanned. Or maybe he's just coy, and enjoyed soaking up all the hype about him and "his talents". 

So to sum up: LeBron is a d!ck.

Better?

J-


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



johnnyb said:


> Hmm...mockery?
> 
> I thought a lengthy comment on topic would dilute the back and forth I've been enjoying between BeeGee and E.H.
> 
> ...


Dre has tried the whole "Hes doing it on purpose" BS as well. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. No one who makes a large part of their living on popular image does a WWE heel turn. No one. Its the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

_"You're tops in jersey sales right now Lebron. Have been for years. The only place to go...... is down! You get me? Make everyone hate you, it will keep you fresh."_

Seriously, some of the dumbest **** I've ever heard.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest This Man: The Lebron James Saga*



R-Star said:


> Dre has tried the whole "Hes doing it on purpose" BS as well. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. No one who makes a large part of their living on popular image does a WWE heel turn. No one. Its the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
> 
> _"You're tops in jersey sales right now Lebron. Have been for years. The only place to go...... is down! You get me? Make everyone hate you, it will keep you fresh."_
> 
> Seriously, some of the dumbest **** I've ever heard.


Hollywood Hogan begs to differ. The NWO was the most popular thing to ever happen to WCW. It was almost as big as Hulkamania. However, the only way for Lebron to become a good guy again is for him to go back to Cleveland. That's not happening. However, him being a heel is good for his image because he is no longer the lone superstar on a team of outcasts.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

Being a heel isn't good for anyones image in pro sports. Comparing the NBA to the NWO is fun, but not at all realistic. They aren't going to meet the Lakers in the Finals, only to have Gasol hit Kobe with a chair, pull off his Lakers jersey to reveal a black Miami unit. No ones going to spray paint MWO on the trophy. It's not similar. 

Changing from the face of the league to a heel is not a good marketing move in pro sports. That should be clear to everyone.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

I think at this point it's pretty clear LeBron's embraced that image.

I just read an article talking about how he panders to fans more than he ever has in Miami, and at or near the end of the Portland game his teammates are over near their bench and he's on the other side of the court messing with fans, something the journalist notes he's never done in Cleveland. 

You keep exaggerating the point I was trying to make, and I made a million posts about it back when I first said it supporting myself, so I'm not getting back into it. Maybe I will dig up my old posts later


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> Being a heel isn't good for anyones image in pro sports.


To, again, quote a friend of mine that works in the ad business, "All you need to know about the American consumer is that the two most popular athletes in America are a rapist and a serial adulterer."


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

Jesus **** EH, again with the Kobe rapist junk? 57 pages of this nonsense. 

No. It is not profitable to go from the face of the league to the leagues resident douche bag. Lebron will always sell jerseys, and the super team hype helped renew his hype, but turning into a dick head has not helped Lebron sell anything, or gain fans.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

Yeah, because with every gamewinner fans are just "oh man that crazy rapist does it again! I wonder who he's going to plunk tonight! I don't even care look at that form!" :sarcasm:

I will say R-Star is underestimating what polarization does for an image and I'll leave it at that. 

People hated Jordan but it was an awesome dynamic because he would bust your teams ass anyway and you didn't know whether to think of some random reason to hate, or cheer. Kobe has that dynamic to an extent but his stuff is a little more serious than just being "too good". 

Just look at Bron's favorite teams. The Cowboys and Yankees, the Yankees I bet surely got him plenty of **** in Akron..but he saw that dynamic of the evil empire that stays on top in his formative years and he wanted to emulate it. I don't think that was a driving force or anything behind going to Miami but it was more an added bonus once he got there.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



Dre™ said:


> I think at this point it's pretty clear LeBron's embraced that image.
> 
> I just read an article talking about how he panders to fans more than he ever has in Miami, and at or near the end of the Portland game his teammates are over near their bench and he's on the other side of the court messing with fans, something the journalist notes he's never done in Cleveland.
> 
> You keep exaggerating the point I was trying to make, and I made a million posts about it back when I first said it supporting myself, so I'm not getting back into it. Maybe I will dig up my old posts later


Go ahead, and I can dig up some of your earlier posts as well, and won't be picking and choosing for the best one like you'll be trying to do.

Up to you friend.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> Jesus **** EH, again with the Kobe rapist junk? 57 pages of this nonsense.


Actually, no, but thanks for completely missing my friend's point and whinging like a 16 year old girl in the process.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

No ones missing the point. There was no point to begin with. Tiger is a hell of a lot less popular now than he was back when he was clean and winning. That's not debatable. 

And Kobe? His reputation and popularity didn't take a dip during the rap case? Get real. Rapping that up and winning a couple championships does wonders repairing someones reputation.


Anything else you and your friend would like to talk about?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> No ones missing the point. There was no point to begin with. Tiger is a hell of a lot less popular now than he was back when he was clean and winning. That's not debatable.


You do understand that even after all this he's still the most popular athlete in America, right?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

Most recognizable still? Sure. Most popular? No. Now that the whole media circus has died down, not as many people are tuning in anymore. He isn't dominating the game like he used to, and he was over exposed for a year over his actions. 

His popularity has gone down.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

Most popular _yes_. That was my friend's point. Despite the fact that he was unmasked as a major douchebag he still topped the list of most popular athletes and his merchandise still tops the sales lists, along with Kobe Bryant's. And if you think that people don't realise that Kobe's even a bigger douchebag than his peers, you're wrong. People are very aware. They just don't give a ****.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

I love how you're always under the assumption that if _you_ keep saying something, it must be right because _you're_ saying it. Then semantics and word play come in to try to prove your point.

Tiger Woods is less popular today, by a wide margin, than he was before his incident. There is no argument against that.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

And yet his merchandise is still the best selling merchandise in America and he still tops the popularity polls.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

Nike Golf is Tiger Woods golf. People aren't going around buying Tiger Woods shirts, they're buying Nike clubs, because they're one of the top brands. Not because Tiger is using them to lose right now. 

And most popular sports athlete? Really? Where? I'd like to see it. Most talked about of the year? Yea, maybe along with Lebron. Most popular? I don't agree in the slightest, and next year if the credentials of any list you post are what I think they are, Tiger will be a lot lower down the list since the buzz about him cheating has died down.

People talking about a guy cheating on his wife doesn't make him popular. That should be pretty easy to understand. So should the fact that he lost the majority of his sponsors.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> Nike Golf is Tiger Woods golf. People aren't going around buying Tiger Woods shirts, they're buying Nike clubs, because they're one of the top brands. Not because Tiger is using them to lose right now.
> 
> And most popular sports athlete? Really? Where? I'd like to see it. Most talked about of the year? Yea, maybe along with Lebron. Most popular? I don't agree in the slightest, and next year if the credentials of any list you post are what I think they are, Tiger will be a lot lower down the list since the buzz about him cheating has died down.
> 
> People talking about a guy cheating on his wife doesn't make him popular. That should be pretty easy to understand. So should the fact that he lost the majority of his sponsors.


1) So why are they buying Nike clubs over other elite brands? People buying those clubs know he uses them. Heck, people who know nothing about golf know Tiger uses Nike. You said it yourself 'Nike Golf is Tiger Woods Golf'.

2) You don't believe what E.H Munro is saying, why don't you find evidence that he isn't the most popular instead of simply saying you know he isn't. Simple argument technique, and one you call people out for yourself. Just because you keep saying something doesn't make it right. Show me something that makes it right.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

No one cares that he cheated on his wife. They only played that story so much because it was a story about Tiger Woods. Chicks don't care about golf, and men don't care that he banged every 6+/10 girl from Florida to California. We all had a good laugh at his clubs being used against him. No one watches golf if Tiger's not playing.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

this is interesting in light of the current conversation

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE66L0CD20100722

By Gerard Wright

LOS ANGELES | Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:48pm EDT 

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Los Angeles Lakers guard Kobe Bryant proved that winning was the best way to redeem an image when he was named the joint most popular athlete in American sport.

Bryant, a five-times NBA championship winner, leapt from fourth last year to equal first with golfer Tiger Woods in the poll conducted by Harris Interactive.

The poll of 2227 adults was taken during the week of June 14-21, a period book-ended by the Lakers' NBA title victory over the Boston Celtics and Woods' tie for fourth place at the US Open at Pebble Beach.

Woods, who has been embroiled in a scandal over extra-marital affairs since late last year, had topped the list since 2006.

He is yet to win an event since returning from a four-month self-imposed exile and finished tied for 23rd at last week's British Open.

Bryant had been the subject of public scrutiny over an alleged sexual assault charge in late 2003, which was dropped in 2004 but the stigma saw him fall out of favor in the poll.

He rose to fourth as the Lakers reached the 2008 NBA finals, stayed there with their victory last year, before being elevated this year after they sealed their 16th NBA title with a dramatic Game Seven victory over the Celtics.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



e-monk said:


> this is interesting in light of the current conversation
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE66L0CD20100722


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



Porn_Player said:


>


Zing to whom? I didn't argue Kobes popularity, in fact I posted that Kobes rep took a hit, and that people quickly forgot after he won two titles.

You should try to keep up if you're going to attempt to weezle your way into a thread after 17 pages.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

People buy Nike Golf clubs because the best golfer of all time used/uses them. They don't buy them because they're a fan of Tiger and want to "Be Tiger". Seeing as how he lost the majority of his sponsors, like I already stated and no one wants to reply to, I think its clear he lost a lot of rep and fanbase. 

You guys are treating Nike clubs like its a shoe deal for a NBA player. No ones going out and buying the new "Tigers" like they go out for the new Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, etc. You're paying hundreds/thousands when purchasing golf clubs. If you're getting a new set and want the best, you buy the best, which most people would aruge are Nikes or Tailor Mades. As I said, they aren't going out and buying it because Tiger uses them. Tiger uses them because he thinks they're the best, the same reason others do.

Who's buying Tissot and Buicks because of Tiger these days? Yea... that's what I thought.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> And most popular sports athlete? Really? Where? I'd like to see it. Most talked about of the year? Yea, maybe along with Lebron. Most popular? I don't agree in the slightest, and next year if the credentials of any list you post are what I think they are, Tiger will be a lot lower down the list since the buzz about him cheating has died down.





R-Star said:


> Tiger Woods is less popular today, by a wide margin, than he was before his incident. There is no argument against that.





R-Star said:


> Zing to whom? I didn't argue Kobe popularity, in fact I posted that Kobes rep took a hit, and that people quickly forgot after he won two titles.
> 
> You should try to keep up if you're going to attempt to weezle your way into a thread after 17 pages.


Kobe? Were talking Tiger Woods, now you try to keep up. 

Weezle? What is this word? Do you mean weasel? 

And LOL at the 'You can't join in, this is my thread' tone of your argument.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

He posted a Kobe article but its really about Tiger. 

An article that talks about how winning makes everyone forget about past transgressions, and Kobes recent 2 titles (as I already said earlier) have made people move on. 
Yet Tiger is going through the roughest patch of golf in his career. And that article is somehow related to Tiger?

Jesus. Again, try to keep up. 

Thanks for coming in and playing spelling police though, chump.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> People buy Nike Golf clubs because the best golfer of all time used/uses them. They don't buy them because they're a fan of Tiger and want to "Be Tiger". Seeing as how he lost the majority of his sponsors, like I already stated and no one wants to reply to, I think its clear he lost a lot of rep and fanbase.
> 
> You guys are treating Nike clubs like its a shoe deal for a NBA player. No ones going out and buying the new "Tigers" like they go out for the new Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, etc. You're paying hundreds/thousands when purchasing golf clubs. If you're getting a new set and want the best, you buy the best, which most people would aruge are Nikes or Tailor Mades. As I said, they aren't going out and buying it because Tiger uses them. Tiger uses them because he thinks they're the best, the same reason others do.
> 
> Who's buying Tissot and Buicks because of Tiger these days? Yea... that's what I thought.



So you don't think people buy a set of Nike clubs and go down the range and boast they are using the same clubs as Tiger Woods? ... Golfers are just like every other budding sportsman, they believe the hype surrounding the goods. Nike Golf would never be as good nor as popular without Tiger, and that is true even to this day. 

The majority of golfers are middle aged men who really don't care that Tiger cheated on his wife.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> He posted a Kobe article but its really about Tiger.
> 
> An article that talks about how winning makes everyone forget about past transgressions, and Tiger is going through the roughest patch of golf in his career. And that article is somehow related to Tiger?
> 
> ...


The article showed a study of the most popular sports athletes. Tiger and Kobe were atop the rankings. The article was after both scandals. 

Just because you're embarrassing yourself now, don't resort to insulting me.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



Porn_Player said:


> The article showed a study of the most popular sports athletes. Tiger and Kobe were atop the rankings. The article was after both scandals.
> 
> Just because you're embarrassing yourself now, don't resort to insulting me.


The article is from June, and says nothing about how winning has improved Tigers image.

If you'd like, you could call and I'll read the story to you.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> The article is from June, and says nothing about how winning has improved Tigers image.
> 
> If you'd like, you could call and I'll read the story to you.


Wow. This really is turning into something special. 

You called EH Munro out for proof that Tiger was still the most popular. You recieved an article as proof courtesy of e-monk. 

Where is it exactly you are struggling to follow?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



Porn_Player said:


> Wow. This really is turning into something special.
> 
> You called EH Munro out for proof that Tiger was still the most popular. You recieved an article as proof courtesy of e-monk.
> 
> Where is it exactly are you struggling to follow?


If you'd have read, I said in one of my posts that I assume EH or someone would post an article, and assumed that I wouldn't agree with its premise. I was right. The poll was taken right when the Tiger news was at its apex. Being the big deal that he was, it was a huge story in sports. It didn't add to his popularity. More people weren't buying his stuff, in fact the opposite was happening since he lost a lot of his sponsors, as I already posted.

If we go by these rules, Nancy Karigan and Tonya Harding were near the top of the list back when all that leg breaking **** went down.

No one is arguing if Tiger is popular, or if hes the face of golf and has been for a very long time. That's fact. Has he lost some of his fanbase and has golf taken a huge hit? Yes. Golf ratings went away when Tiger left, then took a huge jump at the media circus of Tiger coming back. When he failed to win anything and played terribly, that kept the media going for a while, but people don't care anymore and ratings have dipped quite a bit once again. 

If/When Tiger starts winning again, the hype will return and viewing will skyrocket again.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

Or better yet, if people were polled right after the Summer Olympics where Phelps turned out to be a pot head, he would have skyrocketed to near the top of the list. Do you really think hes anywhere near the top now? A much better comparison than Kerrigan and Harding, I just find that situation funny is all. 

And of course OJ would have been at the top when his trial was going on. Maybe we're just not seeing eye to eye on the word popular. I view it more as well liked, big fan base etc. It's not as though OJ had a huge fanbase when all that was going down, but when questioned in a poll back then, the first name to come to anyones mind would have been OJ because of the media circus. Just like Tiger. Kobe? Hes up there because of winning right now, which is totally different.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

my reading of the poll was that it was about popularity not notoriety but that doesnt necessarily make your thesis wrong since previously Tiger was the clear cut #1 and now he's tied so has come back to the pack a little bit

(also it looks like only 2000 people were polled so the sample size isnt exactly staggering)


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



e-monk said:


> my reading of the poll was that it was about popularity not notoriety but that doesnt necessarily make your thesis wrong since previously Tiger was the clear cut #1 and now he's tied so has come back to the pack a little bit
> 
> (also it looks like only 2000 people were polled so the sample size isnt exactly staggering)


Yep. You call a bunch of random people right when the Tiger **** is hitting the fan and of course the majority is going to say Tiger. Any average person at the time who isn't big into sports would have said his name, because hes on every channel of the TV for a few months. Kobes up there because hes solidifying his legace as one of the greatest to play basketball, not because of a media circus. You poll 2000 sports writers today about whos the most popular sports players, does anyone think Tiger would be #1? I sure as hell don't. 2227 adults were polled. Random adults. Do I care who my mom thinks is the most popular guy in sports? No. Her opinion doesn't matter. That's like asking me who the most famous knitter or home maker in the world is. 

So it looks like at least you see eye to eye with me that Tiger was up there for notoriety this year, and not because he was the most dominant force in golf and possibly profession sports, like he once was.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

except I think the poll was taken in June/July and the scandal broke in November/December - to me this was more about the American public's love of the story of redemption of character via atheletic exploits (see also: Vick, Michael)or people being fascinated by but not really caring that much about someone else's marital infidelity (see also: Clinton, William or Gingrich, Newt)


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

Tiger was without a doubt the most well known athlete going into his infidelity media barrage. Everyone knew who he was. He was sold as a clean cut guy who dominated the world of golf. The white mans world of golf. He couldn't be more perfect for a sports icon. If you asked my mom or dad now whos the most popular person in sports they'd probably say something akin to "Not that Tiger Woods, cheating on his poor wife like that!", but his name is/was still on the tip of peoples tounges in June/July because everyone who cared at all about sports were waiting to see if he could start winning some games again. 

Hell, EA has even gone out of their way to retitle the next Tiger Woods game and take him off the cover:









No one can argue that Tiger is popular, but the guys saying no one cares about his recent media and that his reputation hasn't taken a hit along with his fanbase are delusional.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

You win, you're loved. You lose, you disappear. That is the fact of sports. Everyone loves a winner, but loves a scandal even more. Then everyone loves redemption after that.

Tiger is less famous because he's been out. Once he comes back, and wins, he'll be as famous as ever.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

Tiger will be back on top if/when he starts winning again. I don't think he'll ever be the same sort of sensation where even old people who don't watch any sports love him because hes "Tiger", but I could see him being the top sports figure again if he starts whooping everyone on the golf course like he used to.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> If you'd have read, I said in one of my posts that I assume EH or someone would post an article, and assumed that I wouldn't agree with its premise. I was right. The poll was taken right when the Tiger news was at its apex.


If, by apex, you mean "months after everyone stopped caring about the scandal that happened the year before" then I guess it was the apex. Otherwise the poll came eight months later. And Tiger's merchandise was still at the top of the athletic gear sales list and he was still the most popular athlete in America. Because despite the scandal, we just didn't give a **** that he was a douchebag.



R-Star said:


> Or better yet, if people were polled right after the Summer Olympics where Phelps turned out to be a pot head, he would have skyrocketed to near the top of the list. Do you really think hes anywhere near the top now?


No, because he's an Olympic swimmer, and we only realise that those guys exist every four years or so. It's why Mark Spitz was only able to turn his dolphin act into a gig as a dentist. If anything the pot controversy helped Phelps by keeping his name in the news when people would otherwise be forgetting his existence.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> If, by apex, you mean "months after everyone stopped caring about the scandal that happened the year before" then I guess it was the apex. Otherwise the poll came eight months later. And Tiger's merchandise was still at the top of the athletic gear sales list and he was still the most popular athlete in America. Because despite the scandal, we just didn't give a **** that he was a douchebag.
> 
> 
> 
> No, because he's an Olympic swimmer, and we only realise that those guys exist every four years or so. It's why Mark Spitz was only able to turn his dolphin act into a gig as a dentist. If anything the pot controversy helped Phelps by keeping his name in the news when people would otherwise be forgetting his existence.


No one cares, but the majority of his sponsors dropped him, and those that didn't aren't using his image anymore to sell their products other than Nike Golf clubs. Yea, sure sounds like no one cares.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

And the 8 months later you're talking about is after he came back from his hiatus. He took time off golf, and a huge deal was made when he came back, and it became a bigger deal when people saw that he wasn't winning. But feel free to keep trying to skew your argument away from that fact.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

Sure many sponsors dropped him, they didn't want to be associated with the guy that was having orgies with porn stars. But his popularity on the Fortune 500 is a separate matter from his popularity amongst the American public nor the popularity of his athletic gear.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> And the 8 months later you're talking about is after he came back from his hiatus. He took time off golf, and a huge deal was made when he came back, and it became a bigger deal when people saw that he wasn't winning. But feel free to keep trying to skew your argument away from that fact.


Up above you claimed the poll came at the apex of the "Tiger's a douchebag" controversy. It didn't. The car accident that touched it all off happened the previous fall and the floodgates on his serial adultery opened eight months before that poll was taken. When it was taken the fact that Tiger was a douchebag was well known to everyone. And it just didn't matter.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> Sure many sponsors dropped him, they didn't want to be associated with the guy that was having orgies with porn stars. But his popularity on the Fortune 500 is a separate matter from his popularity amongst the American public nor the popularity of his athletic gear.


No, it isn't. That's a pretty asinine thing to say.

Before being caught, he was on numourous commercials, was the face of one of, if not the most popular sports video game, was on billboards and magazines everywhere, and now he isn't. But you're right, that's seperate from his popularity amongst the American public.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

And yet, again, his athletic gear's still the biggest selling and he still tops the popularity polls.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> Up above you claimed the poll came at the apex of the "Tiger's a douchebag" controversy. It didn't. The car accident that touched it all off happened the previous fall and the floodgates on his serial adultery opened eight months before that poll was taken. When it was taken the fact that Tiger was a douchebag was well known to everyone. And it just didn't matter.


Sports, news, and gossip channels were all covering goatee Tiger when this poll was taken to see if he could start winning again. You can argue that all you'd like, but you'd be wrong.

What athletes are one of the main stories every day on TMZ and CNN today? No one. Back in June? Still Tiger, because any excuse to get him on TV back then made money. People love to see a star fall. That's not popularity.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> And yet, again, his athletic gear's still the biggest selling and he still tops the popularity polls.


A popularity poll from June of 2227 random people. Yea, that's awesome.

And his golf gear? His NIKE golf gear? Maybe you don't understand golf, there aren't many other options. The Tiger of old made Nike into the symbol of the PGA. It's pretty much the only way to go. Crediting all Nike golf sales to Tiger is like trying to still peg Nike basketball sales to Jordan. No ones is going out and buying a Nike golf shirt anymore because Tiger is wearing it, they're buying it because Nike is the only real player in the game.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

By now you've changed your position approximately 179 times to keep this discussion going. You've now re-defined your original "apex of the scandal" schtick to include pretty much every since and are dancing faster than a monkey hyped on crystal meth to keep up the "R-Star is right!!!! And I'll change my claims to whatever I have to to make it so!!!!" routine. And in the end you still don't understand what my friend was saying and you're still wrong.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> By now you've changed your position approximately 179 times to keep this discussion going. You've now re-defined your original "apex of the scandal" schtick to include pretty much every since and are dancing faster than a monkey hyped on crystal meth to keep up the "R-Star is right!!!! And I'll change my claims to whatever I have to to make it so!!!!" routine. And in the end you still don't understand what my friend was saying and you're still wrong.


Ha ha. Why not just admit you're wrong and move along. You purposly waited for someone else to try and debunk my side of the argument for you, and when no one did a good job of that you came in and got thrown around.

Tiger Woods is not the most popular man in sports. Most well known? That's a different discussion all together. 

You and "your friends" argument that no one cares if athletes are douche bags was blown out of the water when you floundered on the whole sponsorship/endorsements argument. 

Keep up with the semantics though if you so feel the need.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

actually that poll question was *"who is your favorite sports star"* and it's the same poll he was on top of annually for however long (since 2006 or some such)


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> Ha ha. Why not just admit you're wrong and move along. You purposly waited for someone else to try and debunk my side of the argument for you, and when no one did a good job of that you came in and got thrown around.
> 
> Tiger Woods is not the most popular man in sports. Most well known? That's a different discussion all together.
> 
> ...


You don't have an argument, you have 179 of them, most of them in contradiction with one another. If you care to make a cogent argument, feel free. But we won't hold our breaths because if you do it would be a first. 

"Corporate sponsorships" isn't germane when discussing the attitudes of the American public, because they have different standards of judgment, that don't always reflect the attitudes of the public at large. And according to the polling (which was specifically about people's _favourite_ sports star, not _who's most well-known_), and commercial sales data, the most popular athletes in America are douchebags of biblical proportions. But you know, we don't really care. Because they keep us entertained, which is really all we ask.


----------



## johnnyb (Nov 20, 2010)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

Is anyone here really suggesting LeBron is villifying himself because it was a good marketing strategy for Kobe and Tiger?

Just stop and think about that for a minute.

J-


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

I dont think anyone is doing that are they?


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> You don't have an argument, you have 179 of them, most of them in contradiction with one another. If you care to make a cogent argument, feel free. But we won't hold our breaths because if you do it would be a first.
> 
> "Corporate sponsorships" isn't germane when discussing the attitudes of the American public, because they have different standards of judgment, that don't always reflect the attitudes of the public at large. And according to the polling (which was specifically about people's _favourite_ sports star, not _who's most well-known_), and commercial sales data, the most popular athletes in America are douchebags of biblical proportions. But you know, we don't really care. Because they keep us entertained, which is really all we ask.


I do have an argument. You don't like that you have no answer for it though. 

Losing contracts where he was the spokesperson for companies does indeed represent his public image, as much as you'd like to argue that.

Again you can go about your "You have 178 argument" typical semantics, but it doesn't change the fact. 










to










This was done because Tiger Woods image at the moment is bad for business. Why? Because public opinion is hes a douche bag. That in itself pretty much speaks for itself.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



e-monk said:


> I dont think anyone is doing that are they?


Just Dre and I think Futuristixen tried in the past. They've all distanced themselves from that argument though.


----------



## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

we'll that's crazier than Ron Artest right there


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> I do have an argument. You don't like that you have no answer for it though.
> 
> Losing contracts where he was the spokesperson for companies does indeed represent his public image, as much as you'd like to argue that.


I'm sorry, why is it again that corporations are the best gauge of an athlete's popularity? The two items are only tangentially related, corporate marketing departments have a distinctly separate set of goals, corporate marketing departments aim for bland and uncontroversial so as to avoid notoriety. Corporate America's commitment to avoiding trouble really says zilch about American public's general attitudes.



R-Star said:


> Again you can go about your "You have 178 argument" typical semantics,


That's not a "semantic" argument at all. It's an observation that you continuously change your position so that you can be "right", because ultimately you don't really believe anything or care about anything.



R-Star said:


> but it doesn't change the fact.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, whose name do I see on that EA game? The new one?


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

Tiger Woods, its right beside the huge picture of him.... oh, wait, there isn't a picture of him at all. They took that off the cover, and changed the title to *MASTERS:*Tiger Woods PGA Golf

The same guy who has been the title athlete who takes up 75% of the cover since the game came out over 10 years ago is gone. Thats not strange to you? And sponsorship doesn't matter now? Comparing Lebrons shoe deal and all his other deals to the deals Danny Granger has isn't a good comparison of their popularity?

Come on. You saying Tiger losing the majority of his sponsors and being taken away as the poster boy on his other ones has no bearing on his image and popularity is downright pathetic. You know you're wrong, I know you're wrong, but hey, maybe if you keep trying to make this about me, and not the argument we've both been discussing, you'll somehow come out on top.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

It's also the first time they've used that course so it's a big deal they get it. Augusta is big deal of this title. It has no bearing on Tiger.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



Hyperion said:


> It's also the first time they've used that course so it's a big deal they get it. Augusta is big deal of this title. It has no bearing on Tiger.


Hes been 75% of the cover since the game came out. Its laughable at best to say it has no bearing on Tiger and its just because they got Augusta. If it were such a big deal, it would say in huge letters on the title "AUGUSTA NOW INCLUDED!" 

You have little grasp of reality if you actually believe it wasn't a calculated move to keep his face off the cover and begin moving in a new direction. 

Seeing as the cover was originaly supposed to look like this:








I think my point is pretty well supported.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

I'm glad that they didn't go with that nintendolife cover.

Anyways whats the point? Since Tiger and Kobe porking and raping didn't make them less popular that Lebron is intentionally trying to act like a douche and moron?


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



Jamel Irief said:


> I'm glad that they didn't go with that nintendolife cover.
> 
> Anyways whats the point? Since Tiger and Kobe porking and raping didn't make them less popular that Lebron is intentionally trying to act like a douche and moron?












It deletes the picture after about 30 minutes. If you can't see it, click the link.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSDEaOMxeyUpN_wXScxjTYZyLc2j1wMgPrKFAzakJ13edbT2YtA

And honestly, I'm not going to get into it because I've had a few beers, but jesus, as I already said Tiger lost the majority of his endorsements, and the other ones said "Here's your money. No no, we don't need to take any pictures of you, its ok. We'll just show a picture of the clubs this time."

And sorry, but if you'd like to look back on threads from Kobes Denver mishap, he was a rapist, a chucker, and not a team player. Want to know why to most people hes none of those now? Because he won two ****ing titles.


Seriously, its like talking to ****ing retards. EH ran away even after I called him out in another thread for good reason, you guys are wrong. No one cared about Kobe? You ****ing post here, so unless you have amnesia, yea, they ****ing cared, and he took it off the chin. Thats not my opinion, go back and look at old threads.

You ****ing guys.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

Ran away? No. You were wrong. Merchandise sales and polling are fairly good indicators of someones popularity with the general public, the spending decisions of companies with a completely different agenda, are not. You may not like it, but when asked to name their favourite athlete, Americans choose two gigantic douchebags as their favourites. And they don't do it because they're clueless as to what douchebags they are.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

yeah the American public is kind of clueless though, they really are (and they get to vote)


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> Ran away? No. You were wrong. Merchandise sales and polling are fairly good indicators of someones popularity with the general public, the spending decisions of companies with a completely different agenda, are not. You may not like it, but when asked to name their favourite athlete, Americans choose two gigantic douchebags as their favourites. And they don't do it because they're clueless as to what douchebags they are.


We've gone over this already, the polling was 2227 random people. Great poll. And you trying to spin it like it was spending decisions of companies is pretty damn funny. You're right, they decided they didn't want the worlds most famous athlete as their cover boy. Either that, or as I said, he isn't the worlds most popular athlete, in fact hes villified by a large portion of America now. 


Also, no one seems to want to touch the fact that there are countless threads calling Kobe out during his rape charge, many being about his game. It was a down time for Kobe, you know why? *Because people cared about the charges and used it as fuel to attack him.* Again, not my opinion, but solid fact that is right here on the damn forum. 

Again, its like talking to retards.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> We've gone over this already, the polling was 2227 random people. Great poll.


Have you any better data to support your claims? ...


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

Yea, the data about how Tiger lost a good portion of his endorsements.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



Jamel Irief said:


> Anyways whats the point? Since Tiger and Kobe porking and raping didn't make them less popular that Lebron is intentionally trying to act like a douche and moron?


The point is trying to be made (in a struggle between coherent thought and R-Star) that doing _bad_ things as a pro athlete won't really tarnish your popularity. 

Tiger Woods and Kobe Bryant are being used to make this point. A poll of 2227 adults has been used as proof. That's 2226 more opinions than 1 guy from Red Deer. 

LeBron will make HoF. LeBron will go down as the greatest player of my generation. LeBron will be talked about in 15 years in the manner we talk about MJ in today's forums/sports bars/social circles. It doesn't matter if he continues to do/say stupid stuff. 

He is and always will be popular because of his tremendous talent. Name calling, general douche-baggery will not harm his popularity, the only thing that could tarnish that is cheating. Drugs are the only pitfall for super athletes that could see them turned upon.


----------



## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> Yea, the data about how Tiger lost a good portion of his endorsements.


Weak. 

It's basic thought that marketing targets female shoppers. They spend the majority of money. Tiger was dropped because women were turned off. 

As a sports athlete his popularity within the sporting world (fans are included in this) hasn't diminished all that much. His losing probably saw him lose more fans than his infidelity did.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> And sorry, but if you'd like to look back on threads from Kobes Denver mishap, he was a rapist, a chucker, and not a team player. Want to know why to most people hes none of those now? Because he won two ****ing titles.


He still is all those things. No one talks about how Kobe hurts the team when he goes for 40points. There's games where he puts up 37 shots end finishes with 32 points. This season the Lakers are 3-4 when he shoots more than 25FGAs. They're 10-9 when he shoots more than 20FGAs. Does that sound like an elite offensive player or a chucker?

Now compare that to their record when Pau gets 15+FGA at 13-5. My point is that Kobe sucks. But KOBE won two titles so he is great now. The Lakers are a 0.500 team when Kobe shoots a lot and are an elite team when Pau shoots a lot. 

As for Tiger, his name isn't as hot right now partly due to the scandal but MOSTLY due to him not playing. His last real game was the Masters last April. He has lost a few sponsors(Gatorade, Gillette, Accenture, and AT&T totaling $20million), but is still grossing more than $70million from endorsements last year.

Tiger = ratings


> Television ratings for golf tournaments drop by about 50 percent when Woods doesn’t play because he’s the only current personality with the ability to draw in casual viewers.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



Hyperion said:


> He still is all those things. No one talks about how Kobe hurts the team when he goes for 40points. There's games where he puts up 37 shots end finishes with 32 points. This season the Lakers are 3-4 when he shoots more than 25FGAs. They're 10-9 when he shoots more than 20FGAs. Does that sound like an elite offensive player or a chucker?
> 
> Now compare that to their record when Pau gets 15+FGA at 13-5. My point is that Kobe sucks. But KOBE won two titles so he is great now. The Lakers are a 0.500 team when Kobe shoots a lot and are an elite team when Pau shoots a lot.
> 
> ...


If you look back at the Kobe threads, people were calling him out. He couldn't do it without Shaq, was a ball hog, yada yada yada. And back then, the Lakers weren't winning. I've been one of the main people saying winning games makes people forget, so I'm not sure why that's being used against me. Once Pau came and they started their new dynasty everyone shut up about Kobe. 

Also, I agree the Tiger losing is the main thing, AGAIN, as I already said, if he came back and was winning, people would move on from the infidelity. He hasn't yet, but once he does start winning again you'll hear less and less about his past life.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



Porn_Player said:


> Weak.
> 
> It's basic thought that marketing targets female shoppers. They spend the majority of money. Tiger was dropped because women were turned off.
> 
> As a sports athlete his popularity within the sporting world (fans are included in this) hasn't diminished all that much. His losing probably saw him lose more fans than his infidelity did.


Mens golf clubs, mens sports wear, and sports drinks are marketed mainly to women...........


I'm pretty sure if I'm any other poster on your side of the argument, I'm hoping you leave because, once again, you're just dragging it down in the mud.

I'm going to go out on a limb and bet you're going to go down in history as the Lionel Huttz of Europe when all is said and done.


----------



## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> *Mens golf clubs, mens sports wear????? *_*WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THESE?*_, and sports drinks are marketed mainly to women...........


Wifes/Fiances/Girlfriends/Sisters/Mothers buy stuff for Men. Pretty simple.


Oh and as for the golf clubs and sports wear he hasn't been dropped by Nike. So stop using your childish over exaggeration techniques to try and win an argument. You sound pathetic.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*









*"Objection your honor. Sports drinks are mainly bought by women!"*

No Lionel, they're not. The main demographic for sports drinks is men. 

Why not go talk about the Raptors, or go back to the Million Post Thread. You're making an ass of yourself, yet again.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

Your user CP has had you replying to this for over 10 minutes already. Really thinking out a doozy here are we Porn?

Let me guess. "I'm making an ass of myself? You're the ass. Look at what someone else posted here (because I can't come up with a decent argument of my own), blah blah Red headed stepchild blah." 

That about sum it up?


----------



## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> *"Objection your honor. Sports drinks are mainly bought by women!"*
> 
> No Lionel, they're not. The main demographic for sports drinks is men.
> 
> Why not go talk about the Raptors, or go back to the Million Post Thread. You're making an ass of yourself, yet again.


:laugh: 

Once again you miss the point. How many bullets are you going to try and dodge and think you can 'weezle' your way out with name calling? ... 

You've been deconstructed in your argument, yet you still plow away in a feeble attempt to hold onto the dignity you lost some time ago (around '08)?...


*Tiger Woods is still popular. We have a poll to prove it. LeBron is and will still be popular regardless of his antics. We have an entire forum to prove that.* 

Your main thesis was that LeBron would lose popularity if he continued to act like a jerk. You are wrong. You tried to use Tiger Woods as proof. You were wrong. So what argument are you trying to win now through the medium of pictures and childish quotes? 

I don't see anybody in here laughing at me. I see a whole host of people getting bored with your inability to shut up on a topic you are clearly wrong about. 

But yeah, I will go talk about the Raptors, because I _actually_ follow the NBA on a daily basis. Trying to get at me for having knowledge on an actual team? You don't even see that nobody respects you and your loose grip on sporting knowledge around here. It's sad.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

Look, Basel-Star, in order for you to prove your stupid claim, you're going to have to prove that corporate marketing department spending decisions directly reflect general public attitudes. The problem you're going to have here is that merchandise sales, polling data, and TV ratings are in direct contradiction to your claim. You've given us nothing beyond your loud shouts that polling is too complex a process for you to grasp.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> Your user CP has had you replying to this for over 10 minutes already. Really thinking out a doozy here are we Porn?
> 
> Let me guess. "I'm making an ass of myself? You're the ass. Look at what someone else posted here (because I can't come up with a decent argument of my own), blah blah Red headed stepchild blah."
> 
> That about sum it up?


I was actually finishing my game off on Call of Duty with the page still up. 

Although the above post is just more proof that you rely on attacks as a form of winning arguments. I can only denounce you for not having the intelligence to understand what is going on in this thread and move away.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



Porn_Player said:


> :laugh:
> 
> Once again you miss the point. How many bullets are you going to try and dodge and think you can 'weezle' your way out with name calling? ...
> 
> ...


Huh? I've always stated that once Lebron starts winning titles people will get past the whole douche bag thing. And I'm a little confused as to where I _ever_ said he wasn't one of the most popular players in sports. 

And I'm struggling to see where I said Tiger Woods was not popular. My thesis, champ, was that acts seen negatively by the public _do_ have an effect on player popularity. Winning can quickly make people forget, but in Tigers case, he isn't winning right now, so the recent events of being a sex addict have taken a larger toll than they would have had he kept his winning ways in golf.

Honestly, have some semblance of what you're talking about when you try to come at me. I'd like to say I enjoy picking you apart, but its a little sad. "You aren't popular anymore!" good point, I should probably go hang myself now that I don't have little red headed kids like yourself hanging off my every word and asking me what beer they should drink, or if what they did on the weekend was cool in my books. 

Also, I like how you just completely dropper your "sports drinks are for girls" argument and came back with "You spelt a word wrong and people don't think you're cool!"

Now go ahead and make another post or two, leave the thread saying it isn't worth your time, and then once again, like always, try to come back at me in a month or two. Rinse and repeat.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> Look, Basel-Star, in order for you to prove your stupid claim, you're going to have to prove that corporate marketing department spending decisions directly reflect general public attitudes. The problem you're going to have here is that merchandise sales, polling data, and TV ratings are in direct contradiction to your claim. You've given us nothing beyond your loud shouts that polling is too complex a process for you to grasp.


Polling 2227 random people to figure out whos the most popular person in sports when Tiger was on every TV channel isn't complex EH, its ignorant. Tiger is nowhere to be seen on CNN, TMZ and even most sports channels at the moment, so if you poll another 2227 house wives, businesmen, retirement home old people, and the occasional sports fan, you'll probably get Lebron James as the most famous, because hes been in the news in place of Tiger the last little while. 

And again, it is common sense that endorsements and sponsorships directly reflect a players popularity. I'm not going to find an article on the internet with graphs, polls and a 300 page essay on why the sky is blue for you. It's common sense.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



Porn_Player said:


> I was actually finishing my game off on Call of Duty with the page still up.
> 
> Although the above post is just more proof that you rely on attacks as a form of winning arguments. I can only denounce you for not having the intelligence to understand what is going on in this thread and move away.


If I posted smileys, now would be the time to post one of a man laughing his ass off. 

"You rely on attacks and you don't understand the argument! Time for me to move away."

You do this every single time. Try to call me out on personal attacks, when your own posts are riddled with them. You don't get to call someone an idiot, and then cry when they reply in a similar fashion.

And once again, I called the whole "Time for me to move on" part of your post pretty good I'd say. 

Scram junior. Try again in a month or so.


----------



## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> Huh? I've always stated that once Lebron starts winning titles people will get past the whole douche bag thing. And I'm a little confused as to where I _ever_ said he wasn't one of the most popular players in sports.
> 
> And I'm struggling to see where I said Tiger Woods was not popular. My thesis, champ, was that acts seen negatively by the public _do_ have an effect on player popularity. Winning can quickly make people forget, but in Tigers case, he isn't winning right now, so the recent events of being a sex addict have taken a larger toll than they would have had he kept his winning ways in golf.
> 
> ...


So the crux of your argument is that a players popularity will take a dip when he does something bad but will rise again when he's winning titles? Way to go out on a limb, _champ._

The poll indicates Tiger didn't actually lose much popularity as he still came in as the number one along with Kobe Bryant. But I forget, were ignoring the largest sample we have because it doesn't fit in with your thesis. 

It hasn't been the fact Tiger stopped winning that made him less of an everyday name on the news, it's the fact he's not playing. When he was missing cuts, he was still the biggest name in the field. Lee Westwood became the number one golfer in the World, the headlines were more about the end of Tigers run then the emergence of Westwood. 

Women do buy sports drinks. Women do the bulk of shopping. You think golfers turn up to play 18 holes without a drink already on them? Do they buy that drink? Or do they just pick it up out of the fridge after they've asked their partner to pick some up on their next grocery run? ... The only time these types of men will pick up their own drinks is if they are running short and have no option but to do it themselves. You're missing the point that the golf demographic is middle aged men who don't do anything for themselves beside work, eat and play golf. 



R-Star said:


> Polling 2227 random people to figure out whos the most popular person in sports when Tiger was on every TV channel isn't complex EH, its ignorant. Tiger is nowhere to be seen on CNN, TMZ and even most sports channels at the moment, so if you poll another 2227 house wives, businesmen, retirement home old people, and the occasional sports fan, you'll probably get Lebron James as the most famous, because hes been in the news in place of Tiger the last little while.
> 
> And again, it is common sense that endorsements and sponsorships directly reflect a players popularity. I'm not going to find an article on the internet with graphs, polls and a 300 page essay on why the sky is blue for you. It's common sense.


They don't affect a players popularity when that player is bigger than the brand. Tiger is one of those men that have surpassed the brands they endorse. David Beckham is another. Jordan is another. 

His popularity didn't suffer because Gillette no longer wanted him in commercials. 

I know I said I would move on, but you played your cards wisely and put me in a position where I was forced to respond or lose face. Tactile posting is about all you're good at. Nobody is crying when reading your insults, I am merely bored of your inability to discuss the matter at hand without resorting to them.


----------



## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> I have no idea how polling works, because I can't figure out why polling more than 2000 people selected at random is a better reflection of general public attitudes than a poll taken here at BBF!


Thanks for clearing that up.



R-Star said:


> Tiger is nowhere to be seen on CNN, TMZ and even most sports channels at the moment


He wasn't at the end of last June, either.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



Porn_Player said:


> So the crux of your argument is that a players popularity will take a dip when he does something bad but will rise again when he's winning titles? Way to go out on a limb, _champ._
> 
> The poll indicates Tiger didn't actually lose much popularity as he still came in as the number one along with Kobe Bryant. But I forget, were ignoring the largest sample we have because it doesn't fit in with your thesis.
> 
> ...


If a man is telling his wife what to pick up from the store, then obviously advertising of the product would be geared towards them man, not the woman. Most men drink beer on the golf course, not sports drinks anyways. Guys on the basketball court, guys at the gym, etc are usually the ones drinking it to try to keep hydrated. The average golfer is just drinking beer for the beer kart when golfing. 
But I can agree this is just a dumb side topic to the main debate going on.

If me saying players being viewed negatively for adulterism, rape, etc has a negative effect on their image is "really going out on a limb." then what is it we're arguing here?

You an EH have gone out of your way to try to twist and turn my argument into me saying Tiger isn't popular, or this, or that, when I've made it clear time and time again. I'm not changing my argument every post like EH is trying to play off as his main defense tactic, and I'm not saying Tiger, Kobe, Lebron, whoever isn't popular.

I've stated my point fairly clearly. If a guy like Tiger, who is a world wide known golfer who's image is based off of being a clean cut, stand up guy, who is dominating a sport that was pretty much white exclusive before, he is going to lose a whole hell of a lot of his popularity if he gets caught cheating with anything that walks. I've said that multiple times now. And if thats common sense according to you, what the hell are you arguing with me about? 

Buick had Tiger driving around their minivan/SUV on TV and in magazing ad's because of his wholesome clean cut family image. There's a reason you don't see him driving them around anymore. The same women who looked at Tiger and swooned when they saw him driving the Buick now hate him. Thats a loss in popularity. 
When he was standing beside Jeter and Rodick or whoever it was for Gilete, he was viewed as a clean cut, clean shaven stand up guy. Then he cheats on his wife and is rocking his bad guy goatee. Contract gone. Popularity down.
When he was selling Gatorade before it was "This is how I stay hyrated and on the top of my game on a hot summers day" and changed to "This is what I drink after I lose a load of electrolites dropping a load in some gutter slut", contract gone, popularity down.

Guys like Tiger, Lebron and Kobe are branded outside of the sport. My wife knows who they all are, and the best I can get out of her is forcing her to watch the occasional hockey game. My dad knows who they are and hasn't followed sports his entire life. So when taking into account an athletes popularity, you can't just look at sports fans. How these guys are branded and sold are more akin to Paris Hilton than a guy like Tim Duncan. If you're buying a Tim Duncan product its because you like his game, and want to play the game like him. If you're buying a Kobe/Bron/El Tigre product, most people are doing it off the image/brand they're bring sold. 

Not sure if there was anything else in your post to reply to, but I've gone on a bit of a rant so I'll end this post for now.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> Thanks for clearing that up.
> 
> 
> 
> He wasn't at the end of last June, either.


A) If you want to start editing posts, I can have fun with that as well. This is a clear cut EH Munro sign that you're out of things to say.

B) Yea, he was on TV when the poll was taken, and in all the months leading up to it. Maybe you're just a little out of touch these days.


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

Hold on I don't understand one thing here, for those of you arguing that his popularity didn't drop, then why did companies, with people whose careers are based on marketing and don't just post about it on the internet acting like they know how it works, drop him from endorsements? I really don't see how hard it is to understand that if you do something that the general public doesn't like, your popularity will drop. I don't think it gets any simpler than that. 

Here's some evidence.

Dropped by Gillette, Accenture, Gatorade, Buick, AT&T, Pepsi, Tag Heuer

http://www.modernghana.com/news2/256282/2/tiger-woods-popularity-plummets-after-scandal.html
http://yaleherald.com/sports/he%E2%80%99s-got-99-problems%E2%80%94most-are-prostitutes/
http://blog.zap2it.com/pop2it/2010/01/tiger-woods-in-vanity-fair-never-before-seen-photos.html
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/special-reports/tiger-woods-suffers-huge-popularity-plunge-in-wake-of-sex-scandals/story-fn4m98qu-1225811137762

And there's tons more just google it.
I was a Kobe fan in 2003 and still am right now, and RStar is exactly right, I remember arguing on here about it when I first started and a lot of people that have flipped sides were saying Kobe can't win, Kobe shoots too much, he's after personal glory, he was vilified for his trade demand by everybody but Lakers fans, same with saying to send Bynum out, then 2 years later everybody forgot once he got his 4th ring.

And also if people think Tiger was taken off the cover because a new course was added....take a marketing class...you're embarrassing yourself with that logic. Everything done in marketing is done for a reason, NHL by EA sports took off Danny Heatley after they had already come out with the game and him on the cover, because of his car crash incident. You do bad things that turn people off and big companies don't want to be associated with you as much. Kobe got dropped by how many sponsors? And you're telling me his popularity never fell?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



thug_immortal8 said:


> Hold on I don't understand one thing here, for those of you arguing that his popularity didn't drop, then why did companies, with people whose careers are based on marketing and don't just post about it on the internet acting like they know how it works, drop him from endorsements? I really don't see how hard it is to understand that if you do something that the general public doesn't like, your popularity will drop. I don't think it gets any simpler than that.


Now, can you explain why TV ratings for golf skyrocket when Tiger's playing and plummet when he isn't, why his merchandise sales are still at the top of the heap and polling data still has him rated as America's favourite athlete, along with Bryant?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> Now, can you explain why TV ratings for golf skyrocket when Tiger's playing and plummet when he isn't, why his merchandise sales are still at the top of the heap and polling data still has him rated as America's favourite athlete, along with Bryant?


Because Tiger is the face of golf? Pretty sure I already explained his image is pandered to a much wider audience than Golf fans EH. Something you refuse to acknoweldge. 

And his merchandise sales are tops, because again, as I explained, people are buying hundreds/thousand dollar golf clubs from Nike. They aren't going out and buying the new Tiger driver, they're buying the new Nike driver. 

But seeing as you've wanted to talk around and around for pages with yes, semantics, I'll make the question being posed clear for you:
*Are you saying Tiger cheating on his wife with multiple women had no bearing at all on his popularity?*

Because we've proven otherwise, yet you keep beating around the bush, trying to change the focal point to me, and other general defense strategies to somehow look like you're right.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> A) If you want to start editing posts, I can have fun with that as well. This is a clear cut EH Munro sign that you're out of things to say.


By now it's pretty clear that you don't understand polling. Because you're honestly baffled as to why randomly sampled people are a reflection of general attitudes. 



R-Star said:


> B) Yea, he was on TV when the poll was taken, and in all the months leading up to it. Maybe you're just a little out of touch these days.


You can keep repeating this, but he was long out of circulation when the poll was taken. The story was eight months old by that point. He was months out of rehab, and the Masters ended more than two months previously. In short, as usual, you're full of ****. 

Now, if you want to argue that _Kobe Bryant_ was in the news, you'd be right, as the poll was taken directly on the heels of one of the best NBA Finals in years. Just a friendly tip. Your arguments are so bad, that if you want to be right, you should probably try stealing your opponents' arguments.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



thug_immortal8 said:


> Hold on I don't understand one thing here, for those of you arguing that his popularity didn't drop, then why did companies, with people whose careers are based on marketing and don't just post about it on the internet acting like they know how it works, drop him from endorsements? I really don't see how hard it is to understand that if you do something that the general public doesn't like, your popularity will drop. I don't think it gets any simpler than that.
> 
> Here's some evidence.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I was waiting to see when someone would have the balls to step in on this circle jerk going on here.

Saying marketing, endorsements, etc don't have a direct correlation to a players popularity is idiotic at best. I honestly don't think EH or anyone else even believes that, hes just trying to hold on to a losing argument.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> Because Tiger is the face of golf? Pretty sure I already explained his image is pandered to a much wider audience than Golf fans EH. Something you refuse to acknoweldge.
> 
> And his merchandise sales are tops, because again, as I explained, people are buying hundreds/thousand dollar golf clubs from Nike. They aren't going out and buying the new Tiger driver, they're buying the new Nike driver.
> 
> ...


So, let's see if we have your argument straight. Tiger is incredibly unpopular because he's a douchebag, so unpopular that people refuse to watch golf if he's not playing? Is that about the gist of it?


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

I haven't looked at any of that data but from what I've read about in other articles the distance between him and the number 2 athlete has been closed on the popularity scale. So to me that's an indication that his popularity dropped, I understand if he's still the favorite but the stats and the articles I put up explain that his popularity dropped, I didn't say that he wasn't the most popular anymore that was you. And I didn't say that his merchandising sales aren't at the top I'm just saying they have dropped. As for TV ratings that's simple to explain, he's still an exciting player to watch and arguably the best one so when he doesn't play a lot of people tune away. Did I really need to explain all of that though, I mean can't it be gathered from common sense.


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

Nobody is saying he's unpopular just that his popularity dropped. How hard is that to comprehend?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> By now it's pretty clear that you don't understand polling. Because you're honestly baffled as to why randomly sampled people are a reflection of general attitudes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There's a recurring theme with your posts these days, and I'm pretty sure everyone else sees it as well. You start to lose an argument because you have a very feeeble stance on it (in this case that people don't care at all about a athletes image), so you pick small parts of the argument to try and showcase, and ignore the major part of the discussion because you know its a losing cause. 

Feel free to tell everyone how I don't understand polls, or how smart you and "your friend" are. Maybe make up some new fancy words that might get a chuckle out of someone like "gooberment". I'm not the only one who sees through your debate tactis EH. It became apparent a long time ago, and now just turns into a joke when in your mind, you never lose any debate on the board.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> So, let's see if we have your argument straight. Tiger is incredibly unpopular because he's a douchebag, so unpopular that people refuse to watch golf if he's not playing? Is that about the gist of it?


No? That's not the gist of it?

As I just posted, the main gist at this point in time is that once again, you've resorted to semantics and distraction tactics once again. Good work.

Either that, or you're right and my main argument this whole time has been Tiger Woods has no fans and isn't at all popular. Same with Kobe and Lebron. 

Good work.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> If a man is telling his wife what to pick up from the store, then obviously advertising of the product would be geared towards them man, not the woman. Most men drink beer on the golf course, not sports drinks anyways. Guys on the basketball court, guys at the gym, etc are usually the ones drinking it to try to keep hydrated. The average golfer is just drinking beer for the beer kart when golfing.
> But I can agree this is just a dumb side topic to the main debate going on.
> 
> If me saying players being viewed negatively for adulterism, rape, etc has a negative effect on their image is "really going out on a limb." then what is it we're arguing here?
> ...


But this is a sports forum and the support of those who actually care and have knowledge surely is far more important than the popularity we see on a larger scale with people like Paris Hilton. He doesn't need the wholesome housewife to be think he's a good guy anymore. He only cashed in on that image as it was the one afforded to him by his agent through deals. He no longer needs the cash nor the deals so maintaining that image and that level of 'celebrity' can be done away with. 

So has his popularity in real terms actually gone down or suffered? I don't think so, he may have lost a few die hard Christian golfers but that's about it. The everyday person who knows little to nothing about Golf doesn't actually count, they were never really fans of his. 

Tiger was brought up to defend the point you were making about LeBron. LeBron has yet to do anything on the level of Kobe and Tiger, he's just spouted off and showed his stupidity. Tiger hasn't lost any fans in the world of sport. 

LeBron won't lose any admirers, were fans because of his game, not because of what comes out of his mouth. I think he's a douche. I still tune in to watch him because he's the best in the game.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



thug_immortal8 said:


> I haven't looked at any of that data but from what I've read about in other articles the distance between him and the number 2 athlete has been closed on the popularity scale. So to me that's an indication that his popularity dropped, I understand if he's still the favorite but the stats and the articles I put up explain that his popularity dropped, I didn't say that he wasn't the most popular anymore that was you. And I didn't say that his merchandising sales aren't at the top I'm just saying they have dropped. As for TV ratings that's simple to explain, he's still an exciting player to watch and arguably the best one so when he doesn't play a lot of people tune away. Did I really need to explain all of that though, I mean can't it be gathered from common sense.


So, you're also making the argument that Tiger's popularity has plummeted from #1 to #1 since the whole orgies with porn stars stories broke? You're arguing a losing case here, and your "take a marketing class!" thing is pretty funny, since you clearly don't understand corporations' tendency to steer clear of anything resembling controversy. 

He is no longer "arguably the best" since other players have overtaken him. So if people are tuning into golf for "exciting golf", why wouldn't they want to watch Lee Westwood or Phil Mickelson? Why is it that they'd rather see Tiger finish 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. than Westwood win? By every single direct measure of popularity with the general public, he's still #1. The only evidence that anyone can cite in contradiction is indirect (as the spending decisions of corporate marketing departments is not direct evidence).


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> If you look back at the Kobe threads, people were calling him out. He couldn't do it without Shaq, was a ball hog, yada yada yada. And back then, the Lakers weren't winning. I've been one of the main people saying winning games makes people forget, so I'm not sure why that's being used against me. Once Pau came and they started their new dynasty everyone shut up about Kobe.
> 
> Also, I agree the Tiger losing is the main thing, AGAIN, as I already said, if he came back and was winning, people would move on from the infidelity. He hasn't yet, but once he does start winning again you'll hear less and less about his past life.


So what the **** are we talking about here? Tiger still sells. People still like Tiger. He's just not as famous because he hasn't been winning. However, golf is not as popular because Tiger's not playing as often. He didn't take a hit for his extramarital affairs, he took a hit because he stopped winning.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



Porn_Player said:


> But this is a sports forum and the support of those who actually care and have knowledge surely is far more important than the popularity we see on a larger scale with people like Paris Hilton. He doesn't need the wholesome housewife to be think he's a good guy anymore. He only cashed in on that image as it was the one afforded to him by his agent through deals. He no longer needs the cash nor the deals so maintaining that image and that level of 'celebrity' can be done away with.
> 
> So has his popularity in real terms actually gone down or suffered? I don't think so, he may have lost a few die hard Christian golfers but that's about it. The everyday person who knows little to nothing about Golf doesn't actually count, they were never really fans of his.
> 
> ...


Lebron is on the same global scale as Kobe/Tiger/Jordan and so on. My whole point with Lebron is that if he just went to Miami without a big spectacle, going out of his way to say "**** you" to Cleveland, he'd be a hell of a lot more popular right now. As a young once a generation talent that was(still is) widely viewed as a guy who could go down as the greatest ever, he was set for the next decade plus as the face of the NBA. With his talent, charisma, etc he will always be famous, popular, and one of the tops in sports. But at the end of the day he could have been up there with pre adultry Tiger where hes basically a marketing phenom. 

Lebron is still one of the most popular guys in sports, but he could be one of the most popular athletes/celebrities in the world if he would have played his cards better. Hes a likeable guy whos easy to market, so once he wins a title or two and hes not in the media every few days saying something stupid I'm sure he'll start vying for the most popular man in sports.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> There's a recurring theme with your posts these days, and I'm pretty sure everyone else sees it as well. You start to lose an argument because you have a very feeeble stance on it (in this case that people don't care at all about a athletes image), so you pick small parts of the argument to try and showcase, and ignore the major part of the discussion because you know its a losing cause.


Here's the challenge for Basel-Star, please supply proof that polling does not provide an accurate reflection of general attitudes, and then go and dismantle the entire polling business, because they're obviously no aware that their data is worthless. 

Next, provide _direct_ evidence of your claim that Tiger's popularity has fallen off the face of the cliff. And, no, Gillette isn't direct evidence because Gillette's marketing department isn't reflective of the public at large. When you can provide direct evidence, we'll listen. But until then you're just a heavy bag for the rest of to hit.


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> So, you're also making the argument that Tiger's popularity has plummeted from #1 to #1 since the whole orgies with porn stars stories broke? You're arguing a losing case here, and your "take a marketing class!" thing is pretty funny, since you clearly don't understand corporations' tendency to steer clear of anything resembling controversy.
> 
> He is no longer "arguably the best" since other players have overtaken him. So if people are tuning into golf for "exciting golf", why wouldn't they want to watch Lee Westwood or Phil Mickelson? Why is it that they'd rather see Tiger finish 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. than Westwood win? By every single direct measure of popularity with the general public, he's still #1. The only evidence that anyone can cite in contradiction is indirect (as the spending decisions of corporate marketing departments is not direct evidence).


Lol this is dumb, you are saying stuff that I've never said. He didn't plummet but yes you can go from #1 to #1 and still lose popularity. In fact one of the articles I posted had him going from #1 to #25. Do you even read my posts, I just explained how corporations did steer away from him Gatorade, Buick, Tag Heuer, Gillette, AT&T. EA taking him off the cover, am I just talking to myself here. 

RStar, good luck in here. I don't have the patience for this.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



Hyperion said:


> So what the **** are we talking about here? Tiger still sells. People still like Tiger. He's just not as famous because he hasn't been winning. However, golf is not as popular because Tiger's not playing as often. He didn't take a hit for his extramarital affairs, he took a hit because he stopped winning.


He took a hit for both is the point. All will be forgoten once he starts winning again just like it worked for Kobe. I'm not sure you and me are even on different sides here so I'm confused why you keep quoting me, reiterating things I've already said myself in this thread. The only place you and me don't see eye to eye is that his big cheater scandal, and losing his endorsements didn't have any effect on his image.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> As I just posted, the main gist at this point in time is that once again, you've resorted to semantics and distraction tactics once again. Good work.









R-Star said:


> Either that, or you're right and my main argument this whole time has been Tiger Woods has no fans and isn't at all popular. Same with Kobe and Lebron.


At this point we're not sure that even you know what your argument is.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> The only place you and me don't see eye to eye is that his big cheater scandal, and losing his endorsements didn't have any effect on his image.


I know this wasn't directed at me but the very end of that sentence seems to be where the argument is arising. You're talking about his image and were talking about his popularity. 

I also don't know if I agree that the whole 'Decision' made LeBron less popular to the marketing world. If anything I think it boosted his profile.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> Here's the challenge for Basel-Star, please supply proof that polling does not provide an accurate reflection of general attitudes, and then go and dismantle the entire polling business, because they're obviously no aware that their data is worthless.
> 
> Next, provide _direct_ evidence of your claim that Tiger's popularity has fallen off the face of the cliff. And, no, Gillette isn't direct evidence because Gillette's marketing department isn't reflective of the public at large. When you can provide direct evidence, we'll listen. But until then you're just a heavy bag for the rest of to hit.


So, just to clarify, when I bolded out *"Has Tigers infidelity and loss of endorsements had any effect on his image and popularity"*, you what, just decided to argue something else?

You're asking me for graphs and essays by scientists when you yourself refuse to reply to a 1 sentence question. 

And you're right, Gillette, Pepsi and the plethora of other companies don't reflect of the public at large. Their marketing departments are paid to hire celebreties to million dollar deals so that they can market their product to a very select, niche portion of the population. You're just a laugh riot today EH, I'll give you that much.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



thug_immortal8 said:


> Lol this is dumb, you are saying stuff that I've never said. He didn't plummet but yes you can go from #1 to #1 and still lose popularity. In fact one of the articles I posted had him going from #1 to #25. Do you even read my posts, I just explained how corporations did steer away from him Gatorade, Buick, Tag Heuer, Gillette, AT&T. EA taking him off the cover, am I just talking to myself here.
> 
> RStar, good luck in here. I don't have the patience for this.


I don't blame you. It's like banging your head against a wall. Its obvious we're right, but when EH keeps misquoting, to the point where he actually alters your post, its a waste of time.

I'm stuck at work with nothing to do so I'm just passing the time.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> At this point we're not sure that even you know what your argument is.


Actually, we've all been very clear on what my argument is for quite a few pages, after I called you out at your ever so feeble attempt to twist and misquote people.


Quick! Maybe if you change the thread title you can gain some ground!

Outright pathetic.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



thug_immortal8 said:


> Lol this is dumb, you are saying stuff that I've never said. He didn't plummet but yes you can go from #1 to #1 and still lose popularity. In fact one of the articles I posted had him going from #1 to #25. Do you even read my posts, I just explained how corporations did steer away from him Gatorade, Buick, Tag Heuer, Gillette, AT&T. EA taking him off the cover, am I just talking to myself here.


One, the three actual news articles said nothing about Tiger "going from #1 to #25". The polls they cited, all taken at the height of the story, showed that his unfavourability rating had shot up. And yet, eight months later he's #1 in a poll of favourite athletes. I didn't bother with the long op-ed piece on Tiger on the general rule that op-ed pieces on celebrities and celebrity scandals are a waste of my time. 

And, no, the question here had zilch to do with the spending decisions of corporate marketing departments, that is not direct evidence of popularity with the public at large. The viewing, purchasing, and preference decisions of the general public are direct evidence of the public's attitude. If you want to argue the point, then find direct evidence.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



Porn_Player said:


> I know this wasn't directed at me but the very end of that sentence seems to be where the argument is arising. You're talking about his image and were talking about his popularity.
> 
> I also don't know if I agree that the whole 'Decision' made LeBron less popular to the marketing world. If anything I think it boosted his profile.


And this is why I snapped on you for jumping in after EH had tried to jumble up my side of the argument and I hadn't confronted him on it yet. Earlier in the thread, I made it very clear that my view on popularity was how much a player was liked, his marketability, etc. If we're gauging Lebron and others on the Lindsey Lohan scale, then no, we are not all on the same page because thats not my view of popularity. I'm pretty sure that was a back and forth me and Hyperion were having, and no one decided they wanted to address it so I assumed we were all using the same definition.

If you come into a thread late after EH has been trying to twist someones argument, it's pretty clear to get a mixed up view about what someone is actually trying to debate.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> And this is why I snapped on you for jumping in after EH had tried to jumble up my side of the argument and I hadn't confronted him on it yet. Earlier in the thread, I made it very clear that my view on popularity was how much a player was liked, his marketability, etc. If we're gauging Lebron and others on the Lindsey Lohan scale, then no, we are not all on the same page because thats not my view of popularity. I'm pretty sure that was a back and forth me and Hyperion were having, and no one decided they wanted to address it so I assumed we were all using the same definition.
> 
> If you come into a thread late after EH has been trying to twist someones argument, it's pretty clear to get a mixed up view about what someone is actually trying to debate.


You're forgiven.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> One, the three actual news articles said nothing about Tiger "going from #1 to #25". *The polls they cited, all taken at the height of the story, showed that his unfavourability rating had shot up.* And yet, eight months later he's #1 in a poll of favourite athletes. I didn't bother with the long op-ed piece on Tiger on the general rule that op-ed pieces on celebrities and celebrity scandals are a waste of my time.
> 
> And, no, the question here had zilch to do with the spending decisions of corporate marketing departments, that is not direct evidence of popularity with the public at large. The viewing, purchasing, and preference decisions of the general public are direct evidence of the public's attitude. If you want to argue the point, then find direct evidence.


The bolded part is in direct contradiction of your original argument.

This is just getting sad EH.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> Actually, we've all been very clear on what my argument is for quite a few pages, after I called you out at your ever so feeble attempt to twist and misquote people.
> 
> 
> Quick! Maybe if you change the thread title you can gain some ground!
> ...


One, you're misusing the word "semantics" (and you should be embarrassed that someone has to explain this to you). Two, you've changed your argument so many times that none of us really have any idea what you're arguing aside from "I'm right!!!!!!" And, alas for you, you're not. You have yet to offer any proof of your claim that the public's preference, as expressed in polling data, and viewing and purchasing decisions, is a bad measure of a star's general popularity. Please provide actual proof of this claim and not your usual drunken rambling ending with your usual "Ur pathitik" nonsense.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



Porn_Player said:


> You're forgiven.


...


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> One, you're misusing the word "semantics" (and you should be embarrassed that someone has to explain this to you). Two, you've changed your argument so many times that none of us really have any idea what you're arguing aside from "I'm right!!!!!!" And, alas for you, you're not. You have yet to offer any proof of your claim that the public's preference, as expressed in polling data, and viewing and purchasing decisions, is a bad measure of a star's general popularity. Please provide actual proof of this claim and not your usual drunken rambling ending with your usual "Ur pathitik" nonsense.


So, just so we're clear, you've once again resorted to "You're using the word wrong!" and "Show a graph backed by 9 out of 10 scientists"

I've bolded out my argument multiple times for you and you keep replying with the same, weak distractions to try to shirk it.

I hope I'm not the only one having a good laugh at your expense.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

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R-Star said:


> The bolded part is in direct contradiction of your original argument.
> 
> This is just getting sad EH.


Actually, they don't. But, hey, feel free to keep trying. If, however, you're accepting my remark that the cited polls took place at the height of the scandal, then you're contradicting your claim that the favourite athlete poll taken at the end of June in 2010 took place at the height of the story. Of course, if you're citing these polls as evidence, you're also contradicting your claims that randomly sampled people are a bad measure of judging general public attitudes.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> Actually, they don't. But, hey, feel free to keep trying. If, however, you're accepting my remark that the cited polls took place at the height of the scandal, then you're contradicting your claim that the favourite athlete poll taken at the end of June in 2010 took place at the height of the story. Of course, if you're citing these polls as evidence, you're also contradicting your claims that randomly sampled people are a bad measure of judging general public attitudes.


I forgot, Tiger Woods was only a hot button topic in America for a day or two.


**** it, maybe I will post a smiley finally
:laugh:


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> So, just so we're clear, you've once again resorted to "You're using the word wrong!" and "Show a graph backed by 9 out of 10 scientists"


Do you actually understand what a semantic argument is? Look it up, and then you'll understand why you're making an ass out of yourself by labeling _reductio ad absurdum_ and deconstructionist statements as "semantic". 

And, all we're asking for is proof of your claim that public preference is not reflective of public preference. That's all. Proof. Not "People watch golf when Tiger's on TV because he's the face of golf, but they really hate him!!!!" Proof. Not "People only buy Tiger golf gear because there's no other golf gear being made on the face of the planet, just Tiger golf gear and only Tiger golf gear!!!" Proof. Not "How can randomly sampled people possibly be a reflection of general attitudes when I was just on ESPN's boards and a poll in a thread there caused him to finish 28th!!!!" Proof.

You made the claim that polling data can't be a valid measure, it's not my job to disprove it, it's your job to provide proof of your claim. If you can't do it we can consider the case closed, and then return to the fact that Tiger isn't winning, suffered the slings and arrows of a major scandal, and is somehow still the most popular sports star in America. Which according to you is impossible.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> I forgot, Tiger Woods was only a hot button topic in America for a day or two.


So, are you admitting then that you had no idea what you were talking about when you claimed that the favourite athletes poll was taken at the height of the Tiger Woods story? Or are you admitting that when you claimed that he only finished #1 because the poll was taken at the height of the scandal you were wrong? Or are you going to stubbornly insist that you're right and cite as evidence two polls from the preceding year that showed that Tiger Woods unfavourability rating rose at the height of the scandal? Eight months previously? Is that about the gist of it?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> Do you actually understand what a semantic argument is? Look it up, and then you'll understand why you're making an ass out of yourself by labeling _reductio ad absurdum_ and deconstructionist statements as "semantic".
> 
> And, all we're asking for is proof of your claim that public preference is not reflective of public preference. That's all. Proof. Not "People watch golf when Tiger's on TV because he's the face of golf, but they really hate him!!!!" Proof. Not "People only buy Tiger golf gear because there's no other golf gear being made on the face of the planet, just Tiger golf gear and only Tiger golf gear!!!" Proof. Not "How can randomly sampled people possibly be a reflection of general attitudes when I was just on ESPN's boards and a poll in a thread there caused him to finish 28th!!!!" Proof.
> 
> You made the claim that polling data can't be a valid measure, it's not my job to disprove it, it's your job to provide proof of your claim. If you can't do it we can consider the case closed, and then return to the fact that Tiger isn't winning, suffered the slings and arrows of a major scandal, and is somehow still the most popular sports star in America. Which according to you is impossible.


"We're" not asking for anything. You're on your own on this argument. Porn, Hyperion and others aren't sharing your viewpoint here. 

As another poster came in and said, edorsements, contracts, what have you mirroring a players popularity are common sense. And as I said, I'm not going out and finding a college study proving that they are correlated. I'm not finding you a study that proves that lawn mowers cut grass, or that littering is bad for the environment.

Should I once again bold out my question to you? Maybe I'll just explain what I'm looking for here instead.

EH, are you willing to say that Tigers infidelity and resultant media **** storm had no effect at all on his popularity and personal image? 

And before you start typing your usual garbage, no I don't want to hear that "Yea, #1 to #1, big loss" or "Its affect, not effect, you're an idiot!". Is he less popular today than he was before this all happened to him? I'll go ahead and make your argument for you and tie it all into him not playing well, but me and Thug Immortal already addressed that, so try again.


Honestly, 3 times bolding out a question to you, and me brining it up again in this post and you still are trying to side step it. How about just make an excuse that you have something important to do and try to save at least a little face.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> So, are you admitting then that you had no idea what you were talking about when you claimed that the favourite athletes poll was taken at the height of the Tiger Woods story? Or are you admitting that when you claimed that he only finished #1 because the poll was taken at the height of the scandal you were wrong? Or are you going to stubbornly insist that you're right and cite as evidence two polls from the preceding year that showed that Tiger Woods unfavourability rating rose at the height of the scandal? Eight months previously? Is that about the gist of it?


Actually, again, no. To everyone else it seems clear, but you seem to be having a real hard time keeping up here. 

Most people understand that Lebron James didn't make the decision and then people quit talking about it a few day later, it is still a hot topic even up to this day. The same thing can be said about Tiger Woods cheating on his wife, the numerous girls that came out of the wood work, his decision to step away from the game, his hyped return, and then him coming back and not being even close to the level he was when he left. Most people understand that that was a huge deal in the media for a large part of last year. Most people, other than yourself, who seems to be having a hard time understanding it.


What I find most comical of all in this little back and forth though, is that I called you out more than once in this thread for trying to twist my words and change my argument to your liking, to the point where no one is coming to support you anymore, and you're still trying to do it again at this very moment. 
Honestly, you are making a slow day at the rig very enjoyable.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

His popularity didn't take a hit, his image did. He is more controversial now. I don't know if that's good or bad for him in the long run since in the last 15 years everything I thought I knew about fame and marketability has been turned upside down by E! and Access Hollywood and MTV.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



Hyperion said:


> His popularity didn't take a hit, his image did. He is more controversial now. I don't know if that's good or bad for him in the long run since in the last 15 years everything I thought I knew about fame and marketability has been turned upside down by E! and Access Hollywood and MTV.


Not really. Lindsey Lohan is as well known as Tiger Woods and shes steps away from living in a trailer park because no one will give her a job. People read about her because its funny to laugh at her misfortunes, but she isn't making money from you laughing. The tabloids are, but that's about it. I'm quite sure Tiger Woods doesn't want to be marketed like Lohan. People who knew who Tiger was but don't watch sports were talking about him daily after it all came out, but not in a good light for the most part. You'd hear some guys say "I'd do it too" but 9 out of 10 average people were upset, so he lost a ton of endorsements. People can't wait for someone on the top of the mountain to fall and hit his face on every ledge on the way down. That's society. 

Again, if he starts winning, no one will talk much of it anymore and he'll be back on the cover of his golf game. But hes lost a lot of casual fans from where he was a few years back.

As I've said, if we're compaing popularity on the Snookie scale, then we are not all on the same page here.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

I'm eagerly waiting for EH to pick and choose sections of my posts over the last 24 pages to construct some sort of phantom argument I've been making, in some sort of attempt to not answer the question I've posed and bolded out for him countless times so far.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> "We're" not asking for anything. You're on your own on this argument. Porn, Hyperion and others aren't sharing your viewpoint here.


Actually, Porn summed it up when he said that the scandal stories have very little long term impact on popularity within the general public. And that no one will ultimately care about James' antics, just as no one cared about Jordan's gambling problems in the 90s. Every direct measure of public popularity bears this out, polling data, merchandise sales and TV ratings.



R-Star said:


> As another poster came in and said, edorsements, contracts, what have you mirroring a players popularity are common sense.


This is, as even you're admitting, indirect evidence. If you're claiming that indirect gauges of public popularity are a better measure than direct evidence, can you supply proof of this claim?



R-Star said:


> And as I said, I'm not going out and finding a college study proving that they are correlated. I'm not finding you a study that proves that lawn mowers cut grass, or that littering is bad for the environment.


Since you're not willing to supply proof of your claims, why are you insisting on arguing?



R-Star said:


> EH, are you willing to say that Tigers infidelity and resultant media **** storm had no effect at all on his popularity and personal image?


I've pretty much said from the beginning that none of these sorts of stories has any lasting impact on public popularity. People are actually intelligent enough to realise that these guys & girls are all douchebags. It's part of celebrity culture in the cult of personality age. All that we ask is that they be entertaining douchebags. Your inability to read, or your insistence on ignoring it (I don't really care which) is your problem, not mine.

If you would broaden your view just a bit, you will see that a certain ex-president that had a nasty habit of launching cruise missiles at dark skinned people every time he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar or up an intern's skirt is America's most popular living ex-president (and a whole lot more popular than either of his successors). That a model just got herself a TV show after dumping Sean Penn and getting arrested, Paris Hilton got more popular after her scandals, and that Kim Kardashian got a whole career as a celebrity after her sex tape stories. And that Princess Fiona Kardashian landed a Laker and a reality TV series from her sister's notoriety.

In short, you're wrong. Notoriety does not necessarily destroy popularity. Now, it can, in certain self-destructive instances, destroy careers, but normally under extenuating circumstances. Lindsay Lohan's career, for example. But that was as much due to her unreliability (movie companies couldn't count on her to adhere to shooting schedules so studios stopped funding projects with her name attached), which has led to the death spiral of only B movies offering her parts to trade on her notoriety. 

But, in the case of LeBron? It's not going to have an impact. No more than becoming a wrestling heel impacted Hulk Hogan's popularity. Have you seen any fewer LeBron commercials this year? I haven't. And the ones I've seen are more obnoxious than ever (and if anything is going to cost him popularity it's going to be those stupid ****ing Nike commercials). Sexual assault charges had no lasting impact on Kobe Bryant's popularity and Tiger Woods' orgies with porn stars didn't even have much of a short term impact on his popularity.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



Hyperion said:


> His popularity didn't take a hit, his image did. He is more controversial now. I don't know if that's good or bad for him in the long run since in the last 15 years everything I thought I knew about fame and marketability has been turned upside down by E! and Access Hollywood and MTV.


It's not really different than most of the last century and a half. Blame Wilde, he was the first person to become famous for being famous (more or less). Notoriety has been a marketing tool ever since. The mushrooming of media in the internet age has merely expanded its use. 

Hollywood especially, though certain sins weren't permitted movie stars (such as homosexuality). But palling around with cold-blooded killers never hurt George Raft's career (in fact, it helped), being recognised as a libertine never hurt any actor (again, public homosexuality excepted). Dean Martin's & Jackie Gleason's legendary drinking never hurt them (in fact, it was a prime source of material for both men). I agree that it's gotten ridiculous these days with the explosion of reality TV. But don't tell Basel-Star, he's convinced that notoriety destroys careers.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> Actually, Porn summed it up when he said that the scandal stories have very little long term impact on popularity within the general public. And that no one will ultimately care about James' antics, just as no one cared about Jordan's gambling problems in the 90s. Every direct measure of public popularity bears this out, polling data, merchandise sales and TV ratings.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Kobes scandal had a huge hit on his popularity, paired with him not winning at the time. This had been stated and you can look no further than this board to see that. A couple championships later and its old news other than to people trying to defend Bron.

Why is Tiger Woods being compared to the President? Or even better, Lebron to wrestling, which has been debunked countless times in other threads as a terrible argument.

Lebron still has commercials on TV because he signed a 90 million dollar contract. If you don't think he could be marketed better as the face of the NBA and a star for children to look up to, I don't know what to tell you. 

The average person Tiger was being marketed to didn't watch golf, and only knew him as the Jordan/Gretzky/xinsert baseball and football icons name herex of the golfing world, who was being sold with a clean cut image. He was a sports star for their kids to look up to. The avid golf fan for the most part doesn't care that he cheated on his wife, they care if he can hit a hole in one (I don't watch golf). 

To say he didn't lose a large part of his popularity when he was no longer the icon for these peoples children to look up to, I don't know what to tell you other than you're wrong.

That's not saying hes unpopular, no one ever said that. I'd be willing to wager that if he doesn't start winning again next year then his popularity is going to continue to do an abrupt nose dive, although with no one ready to step in and be the face of the PGA, they'll keep pushing him as long as they can, until a suitable marketable replacement can be found.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> It's not really different than most of the last century and a half. Blame Wilde, he was the first person to become famous for being famous (more or less). Notoriety has been a marketing tool ever since. The mushrooming of media in the internet age has merely expanded its use.
> 
> Hollywood especially, though certain sins weren't permitted movie stars (such as homosexuality). But palling around with cold-blooded killers never hurt George Raft's career (in fact, it helped), being recognised as a libertine never hurt any actor (again, public homosexuality excepted). Dean Martin's & Jackie Gleason's legendary drinking never hurt them (in fact, it was a prime source of material for both men). I agree that it's gotten ridiculous these days with the explosion of reality TV. But don't tell Basel-Star, he's convinced that notoriety destroys careers.


Thanks man. You totally one upped me:


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

Again though we seem to have the misconception here about popularity. I've said how many times that I'm not measuring this on a Lohan scale. Lets say Paris Hilton goes out and sucks a whole football teams dicks and films the whole thing, it will be all over TMZ and every other TV source. How is that comparable to a guy in sports? Trying to say that having a tarnished image in sports helps an athlete is ridiculous EH. 

You don't lose endorsements the more popular you get. You don't have to have interviews daily about how you cheated on your wife and why you suck at golf the more popular you get. It doesn't happen. There may have been more people tuning in to see Tiger interviews when this was all going on, but like I said, thats because TMZ and CNN were showing interviews that would normally only be on ESPN. That's not popularity. Watching Tigers trainwreck is not popularity. Teenage girls and middle aged women aren't going to go out and buy Tiger products because they saw him after the latest Lohan news on their gossip shows.

Tiger is making less money than he did before this all came out. That to me is a prime indicator of him being less popular.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

By the way Ron, you're welcome for all the traffic. 

Remember that next time someone cries and say I should be banned.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> Kobes scandal had a huge hit on his popularity, paired with him not winning at the time. This had been stated and you can look no further than this board to see that. A couple championships later and its old news other than to people trying to defend Bron.


Not nearly as large as you're claiming, though. 



R-Star said:


> Why is Tiger Woods being compared to the President? Or even better, Lebron to wrestling, which has been debunked countless times in other threads as a terrible argument.


They aren't. 



R-Star said:


> Lebron still has commercials on TV because he signed a 90 million dollar contract.


So, Tiger losing endorsement money is proof that he isn't popular anymore, despite all the direct evidence to the contrary, but James expanded commercialisation is because he has all sorts of corporate endorsements? I thought notoriety meant that people stopped liking LeBron and therefore companies would withdraw support? Isn't that what you claimed during one of your many arguments concerning Tiger? Now, from my point of view, I'd cite that as proof that companies didn't consider his actions all that controversial.



R-Star said:


> The average person Tiger was being marketed to didn't watch golf, and only knew him as the Jordan/Gretzky/xinsert baseball and football icons name herex of the golfing world, who was being sold with a clean cut image. He was a sports star for their kids to look up to. The avid golf fan for the most part doesn't care that he cheated on his wife, they care if he can hit a hole in one (I don't watch golf).


Then why did he top the favourite atheltes list in a random sampling? If they were sampling just golf fans you might have a point, but they weren't.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

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E.H. Munro said:


> Not nearly as large as you're claiming, though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A couple things. To begin with, again, for the I don't even know how manyith time, who said Tiger Woods is not popular? Where are you getting that idea from?

And why does a random polling show him on top? The same reason why if my phone rang right now and someone asked "Whos the most popular people in Hollywood today Mr. Russell" I'd probably say "Uh.... Lindsey Lohan and Paris Hilton?" and I would honestly reply by answering their names in a question for my response, because I don't know. I am not their market. But I hear their names a lot, just like the random house wife and dungeon and dragons player hears Tigers on TV. They aren't his market, they don't like him, but they know who he is.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> Again though we seem to have the misconception here about popularity. I've said how many times that I'm not measuring this on a Lohan scale. Lets say Paris Hilton goes out and sucks a whole football teams dicks and films the whole thing, it will be all over TMZ and every other TV source. How is that comparable to a guy in sports? Trying to say that having a tarnished image in sports helps an athlete is ridiculous EH.


No, I'm saying that people are aware that celebrities tend to be douchebags. Believe it or not they really do understand that. And notoriety has been a marketing tool since the 1880s, and things are even worse now due to the mushrooming of media (and thus the need for content). From the very start of this debate, last summer, I've stated that LeBron's antics would have no impact on his popularity because they're harmless. 

And I have no idea how you can read "the scandals have no lasting impact on popularity" and get "how can you say the scandals help an athlete???" I think what we have here, is a failure to communicate.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

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R-Star said:


> And why does a random polling show him on top? The same reason why if my phone rang right now and someone asked "Whos the most popular people in Hollywood today Mr. Russell" I'd probably say "Uh.... Lindsey Lohan and Paris Hilton?" and I would honestly reply by answering their names in a question for my response, because I don't know.


Are you saying that the respondents to the poll, when asked to name their favourite athlete, answered Tiger or Kobe because they didn't know who their favourite athlete was? I have to admit that I'm awfully skeptical of that claim. I mean if you asked me my favourite present athlete I wouldn't have any problems answering the question. I mean, maybe you might, but I suspect that most people would be able to give an accurate response to the question.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> Are you saying that the respondents to the poll, when asked to name their favourite athlete, answered Tiger or Kobe because they didn't know who their favourite athlete was? I have to admit that I'm awfully skeptical of that claim. I mean if you asked me my favourite present athlete I wouldn't have any problems answering the question. I mean, maybe you might, but I suspect that most people would be able to give an accurate response to the question.


That's exactly what I'm saying. The average person polled doesn't post on an internet forum about sports. The majority of women don't even follow sports, and there is a large section of men who don't follow sports either. A lot of the people polled probably have even less understanding of sport than I do of Hollywood. So their answers aren't really an example of Lebron, Kobe, Tiger, A Rod's fanbase. 

If I'm polled about who the best guy in baseball is, Its faulty information because I know nothing of baseball other than the players marketed outside of it. I would not be a good source of who is the most popular player in the MLB.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> No, I'm saying that people are aware that celebrities tend to be douchebags. Believe it or not they really do understand that. And notoriety has been a marketing tool since the 1880s, and things are even worse now due to the mushrooming of media (and thus the need for content). From the very start of this debate, last summer, I've stated that LeBron's antics would have no impact on his popularity because they're harmless.
> 
> And I have no idea how you can read "the scandals have no lasting impact on popularity" and get "how can you say the scandals help an athlete???" I think what we have here, is a failure to communicate.


You've added the word lasting to what before was "scandals have no impact on popularity". I thought I would point that out, since you've been trying to be the contiunity police in this thread.

Sports players are marketed on being people to look up to. Look no further than Chuck. Its how they are marketed. As much as players try to move away from that, it is still a staple for marketing a player. 

Kids, who are a huge part of every sports players fanbase. They don't look and see dirtbags when they look at their favorite players. They idolize them as heros.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> That's exactly what I'm saying. The average person polled doesn't post on an internet forum about sports. The majority of women don't even follow sports, and there is a large section of men who don't follow sports either. A lot of the people polled probably have even less understanding of sport than I do of Hollywood. So their answers aren't really an example of Lebron, Kobe, Tiger, A Rod's fanbase.
> 
> If I'm polled about who the best guy in baseball is, Its faulty information because I know nothing of baseball other than the players marketed outside of it. I would not be a good source of who is the most popular player in the MLB.


Yeah, I'm pretty sure that most people know who their favourite athlete is. But, you can run with the "If someone asked me who my favourite athlete is I'd have no idea so I can't imagine anyone else does!" thing though. Don't let us stop you.



Basel-Star said:


> You've added the word lasting to what before was "scandals have no impact on popularity". I thought I would point that out, since you've been trying to be the contiunity police in this thread.


I've been saying the exact same thing since last summer. Tiger's unfavourability ratings were forgotten in less than a year and he was again atop the favourite athlete's poll. LeBron's antics won't have an impact at all because there's nothing harmful in them. He may be a douchebag, but ultimately people don't care that their celebrities are douchebags. Jesus, just look at the NBA marketing icons for proof of this. LeBron is, far and away, the least harmful of them all.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> Yeah, I'm pretty sure that most people know who their favourite athlete is. But, you can run with the "If someone asked me who my favourite athlete is I'd have no idea so I can't imagine anyone else does!" thing though. Don't let us stop you.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been saying the exact same thing since last summer. Tiger's unfavourability ratings were forgotten in less than a year and he was again atop the favourite athlete's poll. LeBron's antics won't have an impact at all because there's nothing harmful in them. He may be a douchebag, but ultimately people don't care that their celebrities are douchebags. Jesus, just look at the NBA marketing icons for proof of this. LeBron is, far and away, the least harmful of them all.


Whos your mothers favorite athlete? Who's Betty Whites favorite athlete? What about George Bush "I uh.... I like that guy who.... he throws the ball you know? Hes... hes white! Plays in a blue jersey!"

My favorite athletes are right on my profile page, as you are well aware of, but are once again trying to make this about me. Good work floundering once again.

And Tiger is not "right back where he was", you can argue that is largely because of him losing, but I'd also argue that its because he isn't nearly the global figure he once was, looking at you in every magazine and on every TV commercial break.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

As I don't know Betty White, I have no idea how she would answer that question. I can tell you that my mother's favourite athlete is Rafael Nadal followed closely by Rajon Rondo. Anything else you need to know? And could you point out where I said that "Tiger was right back where he was"? I'm pretty sure that I actually wrote that he's still atop the favourite athlete list less than a year after a major scandal.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



E.H. Munro said:


> As I don't know Betty White, I have no idea how she would answer that question. I can tell you that my mother's favourite athlete is Rafael Nadal followed closely by Rajon Rondo. Anything else you need to know? And could you point out where I said that "Tiger was right back where he was"? I'm pretty sure that I actually wrote that he's still atop the favourite athlete list less than a year after a major scandal.


You said his unfavorable ratings were gone and he was right back on top. 

And great, you can make up favorite athletes for your mother, thats amazing. Or hey, maybe shes amoung the 3% of elderly women who follow current sports, in which case, good for her, I think sports is a great hobby for anyone to have.

There is a large number of the public who don't watch sports at all, so when asked who their favorite sports player is, they will say the first name that comes to mind of a player marketed outside of sports. Again, that's not arguable. If you think the D&D Dungeon Master who answers "uhhhh... Lebron?" actually is a fan of Lebron and buys his products, then once again, I'm not sure what to tell you.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



R-Star said:


> You said his unfavorable ratings were gone and he was right back on top.


No, I've said from the beginning that where he is still atop the favourite athletes poll. 



R-Star said:


> And great, you can make up favorite athletes for your mother, thats amazing. Or hey, maybe shes amoung the 3% of elderly women who follow current sports


Do you have proof that only 3% of elderly women follow sports or are you just making **** up?


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

You didn't see the article on The Common Sense Daily EH?

For you to act like the majority of old people, women, America in general have a favorite sports star that they follow is laughable.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

I will note that there was an ATP research study a few years ago on tennis viewership, and that something like 30% of tennis viewers were 55+ and something like 45% of tennis viewers were female. I suppose that there could have been a major glitch where all those female viewers were under the age of 55, but common sense tells me that the female ratio would have much lower variability across age groups.

I'll also note that your claims that women would have no interest in sports seems awfully sexist.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

And what is the female portion for the NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL? What percent is over 55?

Come on. If your going to argue that the common elderly person is an avid sports fan, or that its anything more than an extreme minority, I strongly disagree. 

And saying women on average aren't avid sports fans? That's not sexist Munro.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

My father had season tickets to the Celtics when I was a kid, when he married my mother he used to drag her into the old Boston Garden to see games all the time. Hence she became a basketball fan. My mother was also amongst the last generation of women that were expected to be housewives after they married, and took up tennis as did a lot of women of her generation, so I don't find it surprising that professional tennis' viewership has a significant demographic that's 55+ and female. 

As the NHL demographics tend to be overwhelmingly male, I'd be shocked to find any significant viewing demographic that's female, though since the popularity of women's hockey there are probably a growing number of under 30 females watching.

Also, your granny defense falls flat on its face according to census demographics as only 13% of the US population falls in the 65+ category and within that category only 57% are female, which would break down to about 165 respondents out of more than 2000, and I doubt that 100% of them only knew Tiger or Kobe. If they'd heard of Kobe they'd've heard about LeBron.


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## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

You dont need to be an avid sports fan to answer "who is your favorite athlete." You don't even need to know anything about sports. My oldest sister hates watching football, but her favorite athlete is still Dhani Jones


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*

because he has or had that travel show? anyway shhh - this is fun - let them do their thing it's like a battle of the green gargantua against the brown gargantua in tokyo harbor

"From within the pitch-blackness of the ocean depths, a powerful green giant lurked. Armed with unquestionable strength and a bloodlust matched by no other, Gaira showed itself to be a murderous creature. Acting like the right hand of the devil, the ape like creature not only defeated the Giant Octopus, but attacked the very ship that the sea beast was just latched upon. Shoving the vessel beneath the waves, Gaira devoured most of the crew members that managed to flee the boat. Like rats from a sinking ship, they paddled their way through the waves. Unfortunately their efforts would be in vain, as the beast swam after them hungrily. But the monster's appetite called for more than just a few humans on the sunken ship, and Gaira made his way to land"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_of_the_Gargantuas

I think that's supposed to be R-Star


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Karma Police Arrest These 2: Ron & EH Use Thread Titles as their Personal Play-th*



e-monk said:


> because he has or had that travel show? anyway shhh - this is fun - let them do their thing it's like a battle of the green gargantua against the brown gargantua in tokyo harbor


_War of the Gargantuas_ is awesome! That and _Daimajin_ are my favourite Japanese monster flicks.


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