# Is Vince Carter done?



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

He was lousy his first season after signing that new contract in Jersey. Orlando should have seen this coming because this didn't suddenly happen. He has been slowing down for years now. Is he even a top 50 player at this point?


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

You'll have to define what being "done" is. He is no longer a star but he has plenty to offer as a role player.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

seifer0406 said:


> You'll have to define what being "done" is. He is no longer a star but he has plenty to offer as a role player.


Agreed, he's still got several years left of being an effective NBA player, but if the expectation was that he'd be one of the top guards in the league and carry the Magic offensively then it was never realistic to begin with. The Magic have underachieved as a team and to try to pin it entirely on Vince is unfair. In my opinion, the easiest way to improve the team would be to trade Jameer Nelson for a point guard whose strengths lie in defense and passing rather than scoring.


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## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

what are you talking about slowing down with the Nets? he was still great his past few years. just in a completely new system dealing with injuries, is what my best guess is.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Vuchato said:


> what are you talking about slowing down with the Nets? he was still great his past few years. just in a completely new system dealing with injuries, is what my best guess is.


Vince has slowed down in recent years, he just isn't quite as good as he was in his mid to late twenties. He's remained very effective because he has a very good shot and even with diminished athleticism Vince is more athletic than most. To act like age isn't catching up with him is wrong though.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Not done but Orlando as of now has no offensive identity which is affecting his game. If you watched that game last night, the second unit meshed better than the first. I think SVG should put him or Lewis on the second unit.


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## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

no he's just playing possum, i expect great things from him soon


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## eddymac (Jun 23, 2005)

Everybody on that team isn't playing well. Howard has regressed on the offensive end of the court, Lewis isn't shooting like he did a year ago, Jameer isn't playing like he did last season, and VC isn't playing well either. I think its a chemistry issue for that team right now.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I'm sure there's plenty of excuses for his performance, but somehow every time I watch a Magic game I get the feeling that JJ Redick is a better player now.


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

Diable said:


> I'm sure there's plenty of excuses for his performance, but somehow every time I watch a Magic game I get the feeling that JJ Redick is a better player now.


Let's not get carried away.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

vc was good last year, but he's really hot/cold. not to mention he's had a bunch of injuries this year.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Hasnt been the piece that the Magic were hoping for so far. Then again, Vince is not exactly known for his toughness or ability to play through injuries. Every time ive seen Orlando play, Vince has taken some absolutely shocking shots - fadeaways with a guy draped all over him...I dont see how thats necessary when you have a guy like Howard inside with the kind of outside shooting firepower the Magic have. I know Vince has never really played with a dominant big man...but theyve gotta get this figured out soon. 

Perhaps losing Turkoglu has made them lose their identity a bit, and showed up weaknesses in other guys games. 

Still, Orlando has a very talented team - im sure theyll go on a large win streak soon and these questions will die down. Theyre very deep, they should give Ryan Anderson more minutes though. He's a perfect compliment to Dwight.

Maybe bring Shard off the bench and replace with Anderson. Would be weird seeing a $110M contract player coming off the pine though hehe.


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

They should just start Anderson with Lewis, and have Bass coming off the bench. But of course with Orlando every shot has to be a three so I don't see that happening.


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## eddymac (Jun 23, 2005)

garnett said:


> They should just start Anderson with Lewis, and have Bass coming off the bench. But of course with Orlando every shot has to be a three so I don't see that happening.


I thought that was what SVG would do once Lewis returned. I just think they need to fix their chemistry issues and once they do that they will be fine.


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

Will retire with no ring....Like the entire clipper team.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Nice avy...dayum...


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## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

Bass should be playing a lot more with that team, they're far too predictable, and Howard needs some help inside. 

What MB30 said though is damn true, I've seen Vince for no reason at all just jack up incredibly tough fadeaways. Some do go down, but a lot of them are just horrible to watch. Then the next possession you see him drive or take a set shot, and it goes down, you'd think he'd build on that.



Unique said:


> Will retire with no ring....Like the entire clipper team.


Am I the only one failing to see the relevance?


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Yeah, pretty irrelevant really...


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

what i mean was Carter has the same chance of winning a ring as the clippers have a chance of ever winning a title.


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## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

No, what you meant was to have a random cheap dig at the Clippers, for no reason at all.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

He is a Lakers fan, as for Bass, they say he has a low ball IQ and keeps forgetting the plays.


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## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

^Yup, but you don't see the rest going round like that...

Anyway, where did you find that? I'd like to read that article, shame if true because he'd be brilliant for this team otherwise.


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

FX™ said:


> No, what you meant was to have a random cheap dig at the Clippers, for no reason at all.



Seriously quit crying already. Before I start on your hawks. haha jk.

as for the thread . Vince is far from his prime, mostly due to all his injuries. I used to think he'd be a nice fit in Orlando, but not so much now, Teams usually improve after the all star break so we'll see.


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## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

Unique said:


> Seriously quit crying already. Before I start on your hawks. haha jk.


I'm a Heat fan, so go for the Hawks all you like. :laugh:


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## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

FX™ said:


> I'm a Heat fan, so go for the Hawks all you like. :laugh:



lol. ****.


touche my man


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## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

Unique said:


> Will retire with no ring....Like the entire clipper team.


Oh no, one of those guys will ride a bandwagon somewhere...like Josh Powell :funny:


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

No one should kid themselves. Vince has been garbage this year. GARBAGE! His shooting percentages are atrocious... nearly as atrocious as his defense. And he has no athleticism anymore. And he's brought his no-win whiney attitude to the team. 

It would have been tough to give Turkeyglue the money and years he wanted but no question the team was better with him.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

If it was any other player I would say that Vince was putting up decent numbers before the injuries hit but VC hasnt been the type to play thru injuries so yeah it looks like he's done. The Magic maybe better off starting Anderson at the 4 and Lewis at the 3


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## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

Pioneer10 said:


> If it was any other player I would say that Vince was putting up decent numbers before the injuries hit but VC hasnt been the type to play thru injuries so yeah it looks like he's done. The Magic maybe better off starting Anderson at the 4 and Lewis at the 3


he's played 73+ games each of the past 6 years, and encountered several ankle injuries, he wasn't sitting out large periods of time for those, despite requiring multiple surgeries.


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## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

I said this in the off season and all I got was flamed. I don't blame him though. That whole team is a joke.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

He just plays like he's always in pain. Like he expects to win sympathy points.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

LA68 said:


> I said this in the off season and all I got was flamed. I don't blame him though. That whole team is a joke.


they beat a healthy cavs team last year.. i don't think they're a joke. they just don't have all the right pieces.

i originally thought orlando made a good choice in going with VC, but so far i'm wrong.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Vuchato said:


> he's played 73+ games each of the past 6 years, and encountered several ankle injuries, he wasn't sitting out large periods of time for those, despite requiring multiple surgeries.


Yeah Vince is a warrior my bad


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

afobisme said:


> they beat a healthy cavs team last year.. i don't think they're a joke. they just don't have all the right pieces.
> 
> i originally thought orlando made a good choice in going with VC, but so far i'm wrong.


They aren't a joke. Not at all. They really have hardly played well at all with the exception of a few games the beginning of the year and still have a pretty decent record. If they can get things together they'll be fine although I see them capping out at ECF this year. 

People liked to discount Hedo but there were things he brought to the table that Orlando needed and that Vince doesn't. He was Orlando's primary playmaker, their 4th quarter PG and scorer, their best post-feeder, and has an almost undeserved confidence that carried over to the team. And his defense was also very underrated. Carter? He's none of those things. He's whiny and easily gets down on himself. He's not really that great of a ball-handler or passer. His defense is very lackluster and he has a pension for taking ridiculous low percentage shots (yes, Hedo did too, but not nearly as often).

Hedo was just a much better fit in Orlando and right now I think is all-around just a better player. Vince's athleticism is sapped.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

JNice said:


> They aren't a joke. Not at all. They really have hardly played well at all with the exception of a few games the beginning of the year and still have a pretty decent record. If they can get things together they'll be fine although I see them capping out at ECF this year.
> 
> People liked to discount Hedo but there were things he brought to the table that Orlando needed and that Vince doesn't. He was Orlando's primary playmaker, their 4th quarter PG and scorer, their best post-feeder, and has an almost undeserved confidence that carried over to the team. And his defense was also very underrated. Carter? He's none of those things. He's whiny and easily gets down on himself. He's not really that great of a ball-handler or passer. His defense is very lackluster and he has a pension for taking ridiculous low percentage shots (yes, Hedo did too, but not nearly as often).
> 
> Hedo was just a much better fit in Orlando and right now I think is all-around just a better player. Vince's athleticism is sapped.


it's kinda funny cuz people were talking about how vc's passing was underrated in the summer.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Every coach he has played for, even his former teammate have all raved about his passing abilities. Dont know what Jnice is getting at with that statement. He's averaging 3.0 apg in 30 mins of play.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

HB said:


> Every coach he has played for, even his former teammate have all raved about his passing abilities. Dont know what Jnice is getting at with that statement. He's averaging 3.0 apg in 30 mins of play.


Gentlemen meet the last remaining person on the "Magic are better with Carter, Bass and Ryan Anderson over Hedo, Lee and Battie" boat.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Lol the team brought in a ton of new faces, its not even all star break yet and I am supposed to think the season is doomed. Yeah ****ing right. The starters havent even played 15 games together, you are right Jamel, the Magic are worse off :laugh:


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

i forgot what i was going to post when i saw that avy.

i don't think vc is done. he's still in his prime, he's just always been streaky. this is what he's always been.


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## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

Hes not done but I would prefer Hedo to Vince.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

A thread doubting a Magic player, and the Magic team is par for course. Hedo and the Magic were doubted all last season too, and through out the playoffs. It wasn't until the Magic ousted the Cavs in 6 games did people start to give the Magic their props. Before that series it was all just about how a three point shooting team can't win in the playoffs.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

23AJ said:


> A thread doubting a Magic player, and the Magic team is par for course. Hedo and the Magic were doubted all last season too, and through out the playoffs. It wasn't until the Magic ousted the Cavs in 6 games did people start to give the Magic their props. Before that series it was all just about how a three point shooting team can't win in the playoffs.


This is true, but the Magic last year at least proved to be a great regular season team. I'll be the first to admit I would be wrong, but I would be shocked if this version reps the East. Wince Carter isn't a clutch player, unless you count him clutching his shoulder to let us know he's hurt.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Jamel Irief said:


> This is true, but the Magic last year at least proved to be a great regular season team. I'll be the first to admit I was wrong, but I would be shocked if this version reps the East. Wince Carter isn't a clutch player, unless you count him clutching his shoulder to let us know he's hurt.


Dude the Magic are 29-15. They're having a good regular season. The Magic are only 4 games behind the Cavs in the East, who have the best record. Remember the Cavs finished 7 games better than the Magic in the regular season last year. I would say the Magic despite their chemistry issues. Are playing very well. They've already notched some very good wins this year, by beating Boston on the road, and have swept the Atlanta Hawks in all the games played so far this season. Orlando has Boston coming up a couple times, Atlanta again, and then Cleveland over the horizon. I really think these games will be telling. And as the year proceeds, I really believe the Orlando Magic out of all the elite teams in the NBA has the highest ceiling to get better.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

aaaaahhhh, let me also throw in two more coppers, no Vince Carter isn't done.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Lol thats why threads like this always make me laugh. The guy's played pretty good in his last 3 games. He's battled injuries, once he fully gets his legs back, his percentages will go up. He shut down Gerald Wallace tonight.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

So you obviously didn't watch that game. The magic packed the paint every time Gerald had the ball, Carter barely guarded him whatsoever and when he did the entire team was behind him.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

A lot of the shots he took today he were missing a few games ago. While it means that he may be out of the slump you can't feel too comfortable considering he might be missing those shots next game. I would like to see him attack the basket more. Right now he's more of a spot up shooter than a playmaker.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

wince carter is getting weaker by the season. such a disappointment. guy would rather jack up threes than drive the lane.

I'm still a fan, but damn...every game goes by in which he doesn't utilize his abilities, I lose more and more respect.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

^If you were getting wide open threes, would you turn it down and drive into a packed lane? I dont think people realize Orlando's offense makes it a necessity to shoot 3's.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Vince just needs to pay some ball boys to hit the gym with him after practice or on his own time and work out his jump shot. He's missing a lot of wide open shots.

Vince Carter is way to good not to be able to correct his form or whatever it is causing his J to be crooked.


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

They should start Redick instead of VC. "peace2:


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## Babir (Jan 10, 2005)

VC needs a good sport pshycologist...


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

This guy is the most unclutch player I've ever seen. He just turns into a bum in crunchtime.


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## Babir (Jan 10, 2005)

early in his career he was not that bad, had many game winners...even last year he had some


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

Vince would've been luckier to go to Cleveland. In Orlando, there's too much confusion about the scoring hierarchy, and they're not really running good enough schemes to make that work.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*VC's bad night*

Ouch!


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

Seconds later, Carter goes into severe karmic debt as Barnes drives into the paint and kicks it out to an open Carter for a 3. If that guy in the third row hadn't sneezed at just the right time, this would have been an airball. The home crowd starts booing.
On the next possession, in response to the boos, Carter forces another shot -- this one with one leg kicked almost entirely out in front of him. Somehow it goes in, for his second (and last) make of the night.
this part of the game was hilarious to me. he blows a wide open three, gets booed, then kisses a shot off the glass with one leg only...seemingly the only possession he played hard that game.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

I hope he gets himself together.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Prime example of why you probably shouldn't gamble on a highly paid veteran.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

I dont know if it's him playing tentative or if his joints are just very weak, but somethings wrong.. He looks done, especially considering he cant even knock down the open jumpers anymore...


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Charley Rosen says he's out of sync, and I dont think its the joints thing, because he can still drive into the lane when he wants to, its just he cant hit open shots.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Pioneer10 said:


> They should start Redick instead of VC. "peace2:


Don't look now, but Redick's actually turning into a legitimate asset as an NBA shooting guard. His shooting percentages are good, his turnovers are low, and in the games I've seen him his year he's been a plus for the Magic. The guy's going to get a second NBA contract, something you could say with any certainty a year or two ago.


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## Jakain (Sep 8, 2006)

Yea last night's game was pretty bad for Carter. Ditto with Paul Pierce: 3-12 FG, 1-4 3P, 4 turn overs) and KG: (2-8 FG).


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## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

Is he back from the dead!?


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Spaceman Spiff said:


> Is he back from the dead!?


I just tuned in half way through the 4th and was shocked to hear his total was like 38 points.

Now that being said, I still think he's nothing more than off center perimeter shooter that can maybe get you 17 points off 16 attempts nightly or so. Need more than one night to change my opinion.


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## TucsonClip (Sep 2, 2002)

In other news, its raining buckets in Vince Carterland


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

I think this was a hell of a way to let us know he was just banged up. I don't think he's back to even 2 years ago, but he's not as bad as he was letting on. And he's hitting shots down the stretch too.


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

I never knew having a bad month meant you were done? He was having a good season before January. He has looked really good in every game for February so far. Carter I think has been finding his way on this team. The Magic will be flat out deadly once they start clicking. Carter was brought in for the playoffs any way. The Magic just need to make sure they get the 1st or 2nd seed first.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Idunkonyou said:


> I never knew having a bad month meant you were done? He was having a good season before January. He has looked really good in every game for February so far. Carter I think has been finding his way on this team. The Magic will be flat out deadly once they start clicking. Carter was brought in for the playoffs any way. The Magic just need to make sure they get the 1st or 2nd seed first.


His good season was well below the Vince Carter of old.

If Elton Brand gets 30 points and 20 boards tomorrow and finishes the season averaging 16 and 7 it doesn't mean he's not done being elite either.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Jermaine O'Neal just dropped like 21, 11 rebounds and 3 blocks against the Bulls no? It's '04 out here...


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

They traded for VC because he played well on the Nets Jamel. We are not talking Steve Francis here.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

HB said:


> They traded for VC because he played well on the Nets Jamel. We are not talking Steve Francis here.


Who said he didn't?

dunkonyou claimed he was great in November and December, not on the Nets.


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

Jamel Irief said:


> His good season was well below the Vince Carter of old.
> 
> If Elton Brand gets 30 points and 20 boards tomorrow and finishes the season averaging 16 and 7 it doesn't mean he's not done being elite either.


Never thought Carter would be elite this year. I thought he would give us that scoring option late in games the Magic needed last year. So far, when Carter has been healthy, he has given us just that. He had a horrible January no doubt, but before that and after that he has been putting up good overall numbers IMO and hitting game winners/big shots late in games. He did it again tonight and destroyed the Hornets in the 2nd half.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

FX™ said:


> No, what you meant was to have a random cheap dig at the Clippers, for no reason at all.


Well, Does UK have an NBA team first of all?


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

John said:


> Well, Does UK have an NBA team first of all?


They don't have an NBA team, but they have a horrible semi-pro league. Penny is playing power forward there.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> They don't have an NBA team, but they have a horrible semi-pro league. Penny is playing power forward there.


What a troll, what a troll. I lose I lose!!! MF!


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

John said:


> What a troll, what a troll. I lose I lose!!! MF!


I got you fukxer!!!


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## ChosenFEW (Jun 23, 2005)

like dwight howard said postgame...

"Half Man, Half Retired"


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## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

Dre™ said:


> Jermaine O'Neal just dropped like 21, 11 rebounds and 3 blocks against the Bulls no? It's '04 out here...


You're selling him short here! 24 points, 16 rebounds and 3 blocks!


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## Kidd (Jul 2, 2009)

Hi haters!


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## SheriffKilla (Jan 1, 2004)

ChosenFEW said:


> like dwight howard said postgame...
> 
> "Half Man, Half Retired"


half man unecessary


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## and1king (Jan 15, 2010)

Shocked. I didn't think he still had this in his game.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

fjkdsi said:


> half man unecessary


I really hope this was meant as a joke.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

*Dude was just injured*



> Caller: “I don’t want to disgrace one of your fellow Tar Heels but Vince Carter is not playing very well for the Magic. Do you think they made a mistake by not trying harder to get [Hedo] Turkoglu back and then trading for him? I almost think he’d be better off the bench as kind of like a spark maybe that would help out. I don’t know, you tell me.”
> 
> Jerry Stackhouse: “I got the scoop on that when we played them [February 2 in Orlando] and I’m glad we got to that, because I asked him. I was like, ‘Man, what’s going on? Is it the team? Kind of being close to home? What is it?’ He’s like, ‘Stack, man, my knee isn’t right. I’m basically not able, I’m able to play but ...’ I think he kind of has a number in his mind of how long he really wants to continue playing because of all of the pounding and jumping that he has on his knees, and that’s what he told me, so I think that maybe that’s some of it. Hopefully he can find a way to weather that or strengthen it and be able to at least turn it on for them in the playoffs. But him playing at the level that he’s playing right now, I don’t see them really getting back to the Finals. They need him to be that guy, they need him to be that closer because they don’t have a bona fide closer on that team. Rashard Lewis has won some games for them late but you can’t really throw the ball down to [Dwight] Howard late because if he goes to the free throw line, [there’s] a good chance of having an empty possession with that. So you’ve got to have Vince Carter, who is a guy that has been a closer for the most part of his career, to step up and be that closer for them. And, I think, as far as he’s concerned, his body might not allow him to do that.”


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## Sliccat (Oct 16, 2004)

Vince is always kind of injured. But his legs have left him regardless. Even in that Hornets game, you can just see that he doesn't have half of the explosion anymore. He moves like old dudes at YMCA.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Thing is he's a good shooter overall, he can post up, pass and he still has enough to get by the average wing defender. He also doesn't seem like the stubborn type to still think he's the number one option and torpedo an offense. 

There's still no way he'll ever justify that money though unless he hits every buzzer beater in a 4-3 Finals win.


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## Babir (Jan 10, 2005)

SVG must limit his minutes to 30-32 per game to keep him in a relatively good shape for a playoffs...


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Carter is a bum. He is almost always hurt, and when he isn't, he is pretending that he is so he can play lazy. Ability aside, his whole approach to the game of basketball is not at all conducive to winning basketball games. He just isn't a competitor. Magic aren't winning jack this season.


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## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Carter is a bum. He is almost always hurt, and when he isn't, he is pretending that he is so he can play lazy. Ability aside, his whole approach to the game of basketball is not at all conducive to winning basketball games. He just isn't a competitor. Magic aren't winning jack this season.


I REALLY hope this is a joke.


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## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

I'd say it's extreme but it's more right than wrong too. Don't let the numbers and highlights fool you about guys with names.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Patchwork does say a lot of wow type stuff. Interesting character. Remember when he kept saying the Celts are better than the Magic?


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## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

Its a lot like last year where we just aren't getting respect, despite the fact that we're the defending ECF champs. Consistency is what's needed to prove your the best, and the Magic just need to at least make the Finals again to prove they're as good as anyone.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

48 seems legit!


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## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

Yeah, I doubt anyone 'done', can drop 48 ever.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

FX™ said:


> Yeah, I doubt anyone 'done', can drop 48 ever.


Depends on how you define 'done.'


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## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

I'd take done, as not being able to effect a basketball game significantly. If you can't play near the standard you were before, you're done.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

FX™ said:


> I'd take done, as not being able to effect a basketball game significantly. If you can't play near the standard you were before, you're done.


You just gave two different definitions of done.


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## Ben (Nov 7, 2006)

How did I? If you're not able to effect a game significantly, you're not playing at the standard you were before, seeing as an NBA team wouldn't sign you if you couldn't make an effect.


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## Kidd (Jul 2, 2009)

Semantics.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

FX™ said:


> How did I? If you're not able to effect a game significantly, you're not playing at the standard you were before, seeing as an NBA team wouldn't sign you if you couldn't make an effect.


A subjective analysis based on Vince Carter. He asked you an objective question.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

FX™ said:


> How did I? If you're not able to effect a game significantly, you're not playing at the standard you were before, seeing as an NBA team wouldn't sign you if you couldn't make an effect.


Vince Carter overall is not playing at the standard he was before, I doubt even HB would argue otherwise. He can obviously still impact a game significantly along with 150 other players in the NBA.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Vince Carter has a great opportunity to shine against the Eastern Conference Elite Cavs tonight. 

I'm betting on Carter and the Magic to get it done.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

I just want to stop and remember when Vince Carter completely owned the league. I even had a VC poster above my bed of that 360 windmill dunk he did in the dunk contest. I don't know why we always have to come in and debate whether and aging and injured player is "done" Of course Vince won't ever give you the production he did in the past on a night in and night out basis...he's older. But don't act like he found the fountain of youth because he popped off for 48 one random night. A player of that caliber can and will find his way back to the glory days from time to time. It's nothing to knock VC about...age happens to everyone...and it's especially taxing to a player that relied heavily on his athleticism. I think it's great that Vince has been able to transform his game and still play despite not being able to dunk on everyone.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Geaux Tigers said:


> I just want to stop and remember when Vince Carter completely owned the league. I even had a VC poster above my bed of that 360 windmill dunk he did in the dunk contest. I don't know why we always have to come in and debate whether and aging and injured player is "done" Of course Vince won't ever give you the production he did in the past on a night in and night out basis...he's older. But don't act like he found the fountain of youth because he popped off for 48 one random night. A player of that caliber can and will find his way back to the glory days from time to time. It's nothing to knock VC about...age happens to everyone...and it's especially taxing to a player that relied heavily on his athleticism. I think it's great that Vince has been able to transform his game and still play despite not being able to dunk on everyone.


Nobody that said VC isn't done, has said he will ever be back to his old glory days. Far from it, essentially all that's been defended about Carter is that he still has game, and eventually will get his season turned around, yet many here were quick to flame him due to his slow start with his new team.


----------



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

I want Carter to be a jump shot happy player until the playoff time. I think we can use Carter to being an 25 point scorer against great defense if he wanted to for about 15 games stretch. Save it for the playoffs and I would rather him to coast as much as he wants in the reg season so when we are in the playoffs, he needs to realize he will have 3-4 months to rest his knee so he can go full strength on the knees in the playoffs not having worry to overuse him leading to nagging injuries.


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## Babir (Jan 10, 2005)

I agree with John


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## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

VC's drives are so disjointed now. His arms and legs are all over the place like he can't get them to move where he wants them to.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

23AJ said:


> Nobody that said VC isn't done, has said he will ever be back to his old glory days. Far from it, essentially all that's been defended about Carter is that he still has game, and eventually will get his season turned around, yet many here were quick to flame him due to his slow start with his new team.


Several people said that exactly.

And he is done being a first option and an allstar in the NBA. That's beyond debate so those of us on this side are hardly flaming him. We're also 50% through the season so it's beyond a "slow start."


----------



## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

Adam said:


> Several people said that exactly.
> 
> And he is done being a first option and an allstar in the NBA. That's beyond debate so those of us on this side are hardly flaming him. We're also 50% through the season so it's beyond a "slow start."


How's that beyond debate? he could've easily made it last year, half a season in a new system with a coach he doesn't seem to get along with, playing injured and still having a solid season aren't enough to change that IMO.


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Vuchato said:


> How's that beyond debate? he could've easily made it last year, half a season in a new system with a coach he doesn't seem to get along with, playing injured and still having a solid season aren't enough to change that IMO.


I made this thread Jan. 16. He wasn't an allstar this year was he? Is he supposed to find the fountain of youth and become an allstar next year? He's done. He's not even injured. He's perfectly fine.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

It's hard to say he compares with Gerald Wallace, Caron Butler, Josh Smith, Paul Pierce...and I'm on the bottom rung of all-star caliber wings.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

You guys do realize he played well against the Bulls last night right? He's played much better in Feb., tonight was the exception. All this talk about him being done makes me laugh, dude's just getting his legs back.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Do you know that if you only count the games that are played on the 8th of every month VC is averaging over 30 points a game?


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Are you trying to be funny?

Vince is done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I'm amused, and that's what counts.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

It's ok, the next time Vince have a good game it'll be your turn.  But tonight it is my turn.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Lol I dont have time for the petty ****. Thats high school stuff. If you want to do that with Idunkonyou, hey I'll watch from the side. I have watched too many Magic games to know Vince is far from done, I dont watch stats and come to conclusions.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Do you know if you only count the shots Vince made tonight he is shooting 100% from the field?


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## Jakain (Sep 8, 2006)

Still a lot of games left - hopefully he's just saving his tank.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

HB said:


> You guys do realize he played well against the Bulls last night right? He's played much better in Feb., tonight was the exception. All this talk about him being done makes me laugh, dude's just getting his legs back.


Did you know when he averaged 9 points for an entire month you didn't want to say he was done? Why should people change their opinion on the contrary after some games?

When people start making big deals about him scoring 20 points thats when I knew he was done. That and watching him play.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

Jamel Irief said:


> Did you know when he averaged 9 points for an entire month you didn't want to say he was done? Why should people change their opinion on the contrary after some games?
> 
> When people start making big deals about him scoring 20 points thats when I knew he was done. That and watching him play.


But I wasn't one of those people and if you've noticed I have tried to stay out of this whole done - not done thing. Bottom line is at the start of the season, Nelson and Lewis were out of the starting lineup, they called on Vince to put up points, he delivered. Lewis and Nelson come back, team goes out of sync, then the injuries came, dude and his teammates are just getting that chemistry. Unlike previous years, Vince is actually trying harder to get into the paint, there are a lot of things to like about what he's doing this year. He plays through injuries, is out there supporting his team and his play in the month of Feb. has been much better. Orlando doesn't need him to be a 20-25ppg scorer, too many weapons. He'll be back to mid 40s in the next 10 games or so.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Jamel Irief said:


> Did you know when he averaged 9 points for an entire month you didn't want to say he was done? Why should people change their opinion on the contrary after some games?
> 
> When people start making big deals about him scoring 20 points thats when I knew he was done. That and watching him play.


You just need a pair of VC fan goggles. The world is different when you're wearing VC goggles. I didn't know who I was until I put on a pair of VC goggles.


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## Vuchato (Jan 14, 2006)

Adam said:


> I made this thread Jan. 16. He wasn't an allstar this year was he? Is he supposed to find the fountain of youth and become an allstar next year? He's done. He's not even injured. He's perfectly fine.


I totally don't get what the date you made this thread had to do with anything. And no he wasn't an all star this year, but last year he was absolutely deserving to go, no one would have had a problem with it. And how can you say he's not been injured this season when he's missed about as many games in half a season as he did the last 4 seasons, seasons that he's needed surgery after yet still toughed it out on teams where playoffs weren't likely.

Like I said, knee jerk reactions are made all to frequently. give it more than half a season to call someone done, when he's still putting up some big numbers, coincidentally shortly after his old coach visited him. Its the fit, not the player.


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

HB said:


> ... if you've noticed I have tried to stay out of this whole done - not done thing.



Ummmm no you haven't. Every time he makes a free throw I can expect a post from you "to the people that said Vince is done- LOL!"


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Lol I should have added without going over the top. I mean you've seen me on this board for years now, I have really toned down.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> Did you know when he averaged 9 points for an entire month you didn't want to say he was done? Why should people change their opinion on the contrary after some games?
> 
> When people start making big deals about him scoring 20 points thats when I knew he was done. That and watching him play.


I wish I can invite Carter is play on one one with you. YMCA Jordan doesnt mean Jerk to me


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

lolololollololololo


----------



## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

John said:


> I wish I can invite Carter is play on one one with you. YMCA Jordan doesnt mean Jerk to me



He would do un-smooth posts ups on me because he is two inches taller. I have a lot of smoothness to my game, not just some asian kid shooting set-shots and hustling!


----------



## big furb (Feb 24, 2006)

Well, in february the man is putting up 20/4/3 on 50% shooting (53% from 3), so i'd say no, he's not done


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

big furb said:


> Well, in february the man is putting up 20/4/3 on 50% shooting (53% from 3), so i'd say no, he's not done


That's nothing. Michael Beasley is averaging 30 pts and 8 rebs on 52% shooting every Feb. 19, 2010.


----------



## big furb (Feb 24, 2006)

Adam said:


> That's nothing. Michael Beasley is averaging 30 pts and 8 rebs on 52% shooting every Feb. 19, 2010.


Truly he is worthy of the nickname Beastly, shame about him being stuck on such an average team though


----------



## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

Carter with a nice game tonight and another good 4th quarter.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

The verdict is in: *YES.*


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Yup, he's toast.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

In fairness Vince probably hasn't played this much basketball since suiting up for Team USA. :bsmile:


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Ironically, if the Magic had won or even gone to the finals...this thread would have been bumped by me


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

But Orlando would have won in-spite of Vince, not because of him.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Well doesnt matter, he wasn't entirely terrible this year...people are just exaggerating a lot of stuff. Guy still put up 16ppg in the playoffs on a loaded team.


----------



## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

HKF said:


> But Orlando would have won in-spite of Vince, not because of him.


Yep. Just like I said the Magic could've played Redick/Pietrus for Vince and it wouldn't have made a difference.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

HB said:


> Well doesnt matter, he wasn't entirely terrible this year...people are just exaggerating a lot of stuff. Guy still put up 16ppg in the playoffs on a loaded team.


Not too many can do that AND shoot 40% from the field in the playoffs on a loaded team.


----------



## Jakain (Sep 8, 2006)

From Bill Simmons preview of the season:



> *4. Vince Carter*
> 
> Forget everything you know about him. Forget how he quit on Toronto, forget how Jason Kidd pushed for a trade to Dallas just to get away from him, forget that the most memorable moments of his career were a slam dunk contest and the time he dunked on Fred Weis. Forget that you're disappointed in him, that you don't trust him, that you wouldn't want to go to war with him. Forget that he's played 42 playoff games TOTAL in 11 years, or that he hasn't made an All-NBA team since the first year of Dubya's presidency. Forget that he's the active league leader in "most willing to never drive to the basket again if you knock him down once" and "most times rolling around underneath the rim like he's been shot" categories. Forget all of these things. And ask yourself this question:
> 
> ...


*Playoff stats:
*
15.5 PPG on 40% shooting and 24% from downtown, 4.2 rebounds, 2.3 assists...*2009 playoffs Hedo* shot at around 43%, 39% downtown, 15.8 PPG, 4.5 rebounds, and twice the assists: 4.8 

*Reg season VC:
*
16.6 PPG on 43% shooting and 37% from downtown, 3.9 rebounds, 3.1 assists

Looking at his PER...Carter fell from being the *10th best SG in the regular season* with a rating of 17.11 to *falling down to 13th best SG in the playoffs* with a rating of 13.35. Thats quite a drop considering the sample size difference between the regular season and playoff SG's and how much more important postseason performance is. Carter's PER and overall stat drop is an indicator that he doesn't turn it up a notch in the playoffs and thats putting it nicely since he made a considerable drop-off. *Meanwhile Jameer Nelson went from a 15.5 regular season PER to over 20 in the playoffs.*

---

Dwight Howard's postgame comments after their disappointing exit, basically calling out Carter and Lewis (although Lewis did have that ailment as an excuse):



> Dwight Howard:
> 
> “Next year, we’ve got to have guys that are willing to give everything they’ve got to get wins,” Howard said. “It’s about who wants it the most and who is willing to do it for a series.”


Carter seems done. His stats fell off in the playoffs and he basically has zero intangibles to make up for it. He's got Dwight Howard on his case and basically the entire Orlando fanbase/organization + media. He lived up to his negative reputation especially after clanking those important free throws earlier in the series which will forever haunt his career ala Nick Anderson.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Umm now thats what I call reaching...VC was pretty much the only Magic player that showed up in the first half of that game. You ever think he might have directed those comments at the highest paid player on the team that was like 3 of 10, or maybe the guys on the bench that disappeared. VC didnt have a great game, but to take that one comment and extrapolate it as Dwight calling him out is ridiculous. Dwight and VC are good friends, if he has a problem with him, he doesn't need to take 'shots' at him through the media.


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## Jakain (Sep 8, 2006)

HB said:


> Umm now thats what I call reaching...VC was pretty much the only Magic player that showed up in the first half of that game.


VC had a pretty horrible series against Boston.



> You ever think he might have directed those comments at the highest paid player on the team


I did mention Lewis.



> that was like 3 of 10, or maybe the guys on the bench that disappeared. VC didnt have a great game, but to take that one comment and extrapolate it as Dwight calling him out is ridiculous. Dwight and VC are good friends, if he has a problem with him, he doesn't need to take 'shots' at him through the media.


VC didn't have a great playoffs, period. Howard definitely could be talking about a number of players but to say that VC isn't a part of that crowd is reaching.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Part of a crowd...yes, but sole guy, no.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

I felt like that comment was addressing Jason Williams, and moreso just the attitude of the team in the beginning of the series. I dont think it was a shot at Vince, but we all knew dealing VC was an option, if he failed us. That was part of the reason for the deal, it was short term, w/ options. 

Vince is just a shell of his former self, and missing all those open shots is what did it for me. I didnt mind his effort, he just couldn't get it done. You've got to make those open shots, and he didn't. Those FT's in game 2... I mean, cmon HB i think he might have to go... We all like VC, but we'll have to see. He was a disappointment. I dont know if he can help us win...


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

HE's not done, but he's not the answer for Orlando IMO.

I posted this in another thread some what regarding Vince. Give me your thoughts.



> Orlando needs to keep Lewis IMO. However Gortat must go, he's been an absolute dud since getting his new contract. Also the Magic should think about a package that includes either Ryan Anderson/Gortat or Bass/Gortat. I see no reason for Orlando to keep both of those Power Forwards if they're not going to play them. Secondly, one has to believe Vince Carter is on the hot seat as well. He was thoroughly the weak link in the ECFs for the Orlando Magic, culminating in a major choke missing two free throws that handed Boston a game two victory in Orlando. If Vince Carter was on the trade block with Gortat, and Bass/Anderson. What kind of player could Orlando Get in return ?


----------



## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

HB said:


> Dwight and VC are good friends, if he has a problem with him, he doesn't need to take 'shots' at him through the media.


Exactly. If Dwight were to take shots at Vince it'd be an elbow to the face when Vince was coming around a corner.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

HB said:


> Ironically, if the Magic had won or even gone to the finals...this thread would have been bumped by me


*edit 

If VC didn't suck in the playoffs this thread would've been bumped by me. But because he sucked it is being bumped by you guys.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Bogg said:


> Exactly. If Dwight were to take shots at Vince it'd be an elbow to the face when Vince was coming around a corner.


:laugh:


----------



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

oh yeah, I almost forgot about this.

Do you guys know that if you only count the time period between May 28th around 9:15 PM to 9:45 PM ET Vince is actually averaging close to 30 points a game? See, he scored 13 points in 9 minutes, that's over a point a minute. You time that by 30 and that's why he is still Vincanity. And no, I'm not making excuses for him because his coach didn't use him correctly.


----------



## Spaceman Spiff (Aug 2, 2006)

seifer0406 said:


> oh yeah, I almost forgot about this.
> 
> Do you guys know that if you only count the time period between May 28th around 9:15 PM to 9:45 PM ET Vince is actually averaging close to 30 points a game? See, he scored 13 points in 9 minutes, that's over a point a minute. You time that by 30 and that's why he is still Vincanity. And no, I'm not making excuses for him because his coach didn't use him correctly.


In comparison, T-Mac, who can score 13pts in 35 seconds is averaging 780ppg.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Bogg said:


> Exactly. If Dwight were to take shots at Vince it'd be an elbow to the face when Vince was coming around a corner.


Vince doesn't play defense so Dwight won't waste an offensive foul on him.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

HB said:


> Ironically, if the Magic had won or even gone to the finals...this thread would have been bumped by me


Bahaha, great post, I'm actually going to rep you just not for the reason you may think.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Vince Carter was the worst player to lead his team in field goal attempts this year. Like I said before the playoffs, no team that has him as their go-to scorer will ever win a championship.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> Vince Carter was the worst player to lead his team in field goal attempts this year. Like I said before the playoffs, no team that has him as their go-to scorer will ever win a championship.


He's more like Jerry Stackhouse than any of us ever realized.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Carter is old for an NBA player. What's happened to him is perfectly normal. In particular Carter really needs to be able to score to be effective and when he doesn't score well he's not an asset to the team. He really stopped being anything close to a top tier player when he stopped attacking the rim which has been quite awhile.


----------



## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Coatesvillain said:


> He's more like Jerry Stackhouse than any of us ever realized.


Which is ironic because they were both compared to Jordan out of college.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Didn't Stackhouse have a better postseason than Carter? I don't care enough to look up the numbers, but just based on watching the games I was liking what Stackhouse did more than what Carter did.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Most of Stackhouse's post season numbers came when he was with Dallas. His Detroit numbers weren't that impressive and he was more of a role player when he was in Dallas.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Trade him to Toronto for Hedo


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## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

HB said:


> Trade him to Toronto for Hedo


Alright HB, looks like its time to come through with the bet.

While I can still get a hold of you, I'd like to let you know that the Wince Harder images I would like to see included in your avatar/signature include the following.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4030/4262911678_2525897dc9.jpg

http://www.hotstovenewyork.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/vince-carter-injured.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.fanhouse.com/media/2007/11/vince-carter-injury-425.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1730000/images/_1733069_carter300.jpg


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I only have to pick one right? And for how long? Good thing you got me here because I havent checked out the championship thread


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

seifer0406 said:


> Most of Stackhouse's post season numbers came when he was with Dallas. His Detroit numbers weren't that impressive and he was more of a role player when he was in Dallas.


I mean this year...Stackhouse looked pretty good against the Hawks actually...Although they didn't exactly play stalwart d


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

pick the 3rd one


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

HB said:


> Trade him to Toronto for Hedo


Lol. If it were up to the Orlando players I think they'd do the deal. Unfortunately, I don't see Toronto wanting Vince back.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

Hedo's not making the Magic better, dont know why you folks dont get that. Good players dont do 'well' on only one team and as Blue Magic constantly tells you, this guy wasn't exactly golden last season either.

I dont think VC's done, but I am not sure he walks on the Magic system either. He's an iso player that rarely gets isos called for him because the Magic want to spread the wealth.

But I also have to make this point, nowadays and at this point of his career, he seems to have more 'bad' games than 'good' games


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## Kidd (Jul 2, 2009)

Wince Harder :lol:.


----------



## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

See HB, this is why people have a problem with you. You say this:


HB said:


> Good players dont do 'well' on only one team


And then follow it up with this: 


> I dont think VC's done, but I am not sure he walks on the Magic system either. He's an iso player that rarely gets isos called for him because the Magic want to spread the wealth.


So in one breath you are saying a good player should be good everywhere, and then you say Vince isn't as good as he could be because of the Magic's system. Maybe Hedo was the player he was in Orlando because he was a better fit in their system than Toronto's?

There's a long history of good players who were a lot better one place and struggled in another. Now if you're a star you should perform well wherever you go, but no one said Turk was a star.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

VC 16.6pgg 42FG% 36.73pt% 
Hedo 11.6ppg 40.9FG% 37.43pt% 

Now do you really think VC was 'poor' in Orlando? Pose the same question to any Raptors fan about Hedo in Toronto...as for no one said Turk was a star, man I heard a lot of things this offseason when the Magic brought in Vince.

And yeah VC 'isnt' as good in the Orlando system because its predicated on shooting 3's.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

let's just wait until it's the playoffs and see if VC performs there. 

OH wait


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

This is what I don't get. Magic got VC for the playoffs, we just watched the playoffs, why the hell are you still bringing up regular season stats? Nobody cares about the regular season if you're a Magic fan. VC got outplayed by JJ Reddick in the conference finals and took it in the ass without lube from Paul Pierce. Did anyone not see that? What is there to argue?


----------



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

HB said:


> *Hedo's not making the Magic better, dont know why you folks dont get that.* Good players dont do 'well' on only one team and as Blue Magic constantly tells you, this guy wasn't exactly golden last season either.
> 
> I dont think VC's done, but I am not sure he walks on the Magic system either. He's an iso player that rarely gets isos called for him because the Magic want to spread the wealth.
> 
> But I also have to make this point, nowadays and at this point of his career, he seems to have more 'bad' games than 'good' games


You can't say that with any certainty. The team overall is a better team than when Hedo was in Orlando before and he is a better fit in Orlando than Vince. Regular season numbers don't mean anything. I would totally expect Hedo's numbers in Toronto to go down because he's most effective when you are letting him be the primary playmaker and he wasn't going to be allowed to do that as much anywhere outside of Orlando.

As for Vince being an iso player... from what I saw this year Vince is pretty damned ineffective in isolation at this point. If he wasn't then they would have given him more isos. Thats kind of the way it works.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

HB said:


> Ironically, if the Magic had won or even gone to the finals...this thread would have been bumped by me


Isn't that the point? The Magic didn't go to the finals and Vince sucked, therefore you didn't bump it because you were wrong. If the Magic had went to the finals and Vince played well, you would have been right. 

Your statement is like saying "I would have bumped this myself if I was right"


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Magic need to bring Mike Miller back to the O. He should be priority #1. Then re-sign JJ & Barnes, if poss. Then move all the dead weight.


----------



## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

HKF said:


> But Orlando would have won in-spite of Vince, not because of him.


I don't think Vince was hurting Orlando at all. Did you watch any games?


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

briaN37 said:


> Wince Harder :lol:.


Oh ya,:uhoh: sooo funny.


----------



## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

mo76 said:


> I don't think Vince was hurting Orlando at all. Did you watch any games?


Did you?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

mo76 said:


> I don't think Vince was hurting Orlando at all. Did you watch any games?


The question is, did you? You think he played well?


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

Magic can always trade Carter for Hedo


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

The problem is Hedo isn't young and spry anymore, and quite frankly that guy has cashed his check....if they trade VC, it better be for a younger guy.

And no VC's play was hurting the Magic, at the start of the season it was...do you guys believe in advanced stats? Doubt it. This guy's not getting the opportunity to dominate the ball as much as he can, or shoot it that much either. He's not the one shooting the team out of games.


----------



## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Didn't Vince lead the Magic in shot attempts? So you're saying he should be given free license to shoot more and dominate the ball more? That doesn't make logic.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

What people want is a miracle worker...Just get the ball and start hitting shots. I have said it before, guy's effective in the post. Rarely do you see them giving him the ball. This is just going round and round in circles, to some extent its VC's fault he never developed a reliable mid range game, but its not his fault that his coach can't run plays that will get him easy buckets. Then again the coach isn't Jameer Nelson who pounds the ball to oblivion.

P.s. dont have the stats for shot attempts, you might have to help me out on that.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

It's going around in circles because you're in denial.

Vince was a complete bust in Orlando. There's no way around that.


----------



## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

So now it is because Vince lack's touches?


----------



## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

HKF said:


> The question is, did you? You think he played well?


OK, it would be fair to say rashard lewis lost them some games. Vince didn't stand out, but its not like he turned the ball over or shot them out of games.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

Coatesvillain said:


> It's going around in circles because you're in denial.
> 
> Vince was a complete bust in Orlando. There's no way around that.


Lol a complete bust....come on man


----------



## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

HB said:


> Lol a complete bust....come on man


I don't know why everyone on this thread expects Vince to be Micheal Jordan.


----------



## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

They don't, they just expected him to do what he was brought in to do. To be the go-to guy when the Magic need baskets the most, he didn't do that what so ever.


----------



## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

HB said:


> I only have to pick one right? And for how long? Good thing you got me here because I havent checked out the championship thread


Make #3 your avatar. Then include #1 in your signature.

Then in a day or two I'll think of something for you to write in your signature commemorating the Celtics triumph over the Magic/Pierce's domination of Vince. 

Anyone who has any suggestions for what HB has to write in his sig, chip in.

Thank you HB for being a man of your word.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

HB said:


> Lol a complete bust....come on man


In what measure was he a success in Orlando? He was brought in to be the guy in the playoffs, but instead all that weight fell on Jameer Nelson's shoulders.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

LamarButler said:


> Anyone who has any suggestions for what HB has to write in his sig, chip in.


Here's a few quotes from twitter that would suffice..

"I am talking about you saying the Magic have to get to the finals or the VC experiment was a failure. Magic are there now"
-HB after the Magic got to the ECF

"Umm the Magic will beat the Celts...I have gotten your avatar ready"
-HB after the Magic got to the ECF cont'd

"Lol the Cavs built their whole team to matchup with the Magic...#watchumeanwillis"
-HB on the Celtics not being a better matchup for the Magic

"If the Magic beat Boston, your Gortat point is going to look real silly"
-HB again!

"Lol see this is what baffles me, you say that but ignore the fact that only two Magic players had good games. Supwivthat"
-HB copping pleas after the game one loss

"Man slow your roll, they were feeling their own hype...watch them win the next 4 games."
-HB copping some more pleas

"We'll see...you are about to eat some crow, lol at Boston being better at 1,2,3 and 4. Clownass dude Rondo disappeared."
-HB denying the facts

"VC is better than Allen and Pierce."
-HB lives in a fantasy world

"Rondo cant shoot, and Rondo aint scoring in the paint when Dwight's there. #wakeupandsmellthecoffee"
-HB making a point that was proven wrong as early as game two of the series.

There's probably more but I didn't bother to favorite all the nonsense he was typing.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I dont even know this guy on twitter.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)




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## Game3525 (Aug 14, 2008)

Damn HB..............


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

mo76 said:


> I don't know why everyone on this thread expects Vince to be Micheal Jordan.


Jordan? Try Hedo Turkoglu.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

At least Ryan Anderson played well.... oh wait!


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

While we're at it let's just throw all the Tarheels under the bus...Raymond Felton, Antwan Jamison Carter...I guess SHeed gets out of it by not sucking so hard in some of the games...But all those guys blew chunks in the playoffs. By comparison Carter actually looks okay.


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