# Game 2 - Tuesday 7:30 pm - Raptors @ Magic



## Onions Baby (Mar 12, 2007)

Encouraging that we outscored them by 6 in quarters 1-3... it's just like last year with us being intimadated by the playoff atmosphere. Lots of line-up questions heading into tuesday, hopefully we'll bounce back and split the first two games. Our drive defense was flat-out horrible. Nelson was knifing us, hell, even Dooling was getting to the rack at ease. The whole 'Rasho will contain Dwight' theory turned out to be a terrible one. I say we use Baston as an enforcer.


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

Hmm as long as we dont stick to the "letting your man blow by you" defensive philiosophy we should have a close game


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

For Gods sake start Calderon, Ford was lifeless defensively, and for a PG, he has no confidence in his shot, that fade shot from the middle of the box he has to get away from or shoot it off the glass and instead of floating it high as then it wont come up short or off back iron.
TJ needs to finish those layups, Must go with Moon at SF use Bargs as a back up PF/C.
Delfino needs to get involved offensively.


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## dirtybird (Mar 16, 2007)

This is how I see the series going: the Magic will win the next 2 games, then the Raptors will win that one desperation game, and then Magic will take game 5. From everything I've seen of the Raptors this season, they've been more talk than action. They'll say the right things, but almost never actually do it in a game.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

MACEOOOOOOOO


hahahahah Jamdrea Moonani will hopefully step up game 2.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I hope Mitchell come to his senses and go with Moon at the 3 or even Kapono/Delfino. It would be nice to not start off a game being down 20 again.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Take the first quarter away and we did not ply that bad. If we get off to a decent start
we will be in the game in the fourth.


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## Junkyard Dog13 (Aug 9, 2003)

Moon at the # Bargs cant defend Rashard or Hedu


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Not sure what to say... Start Kapono I think, there going to score whichever player we have on the court and we need to keep in the game and with Jason we can IMO.


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

Another thing is we shouldnt double Howard right from the get go. That got us smoked last time. I rather take my chances with Dwight shooting free throws and only letting in two pointers early in the game. If we do double it should be when Howard makes his move, in game one he did fumble it a few times when making his move so his handle is suspect.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

i noted it a couple weeks back, that ford is looking really apathetic (for his standards). it's like tj already knows he's on the way out and is playing like it. surprisingly, and to the team's benefit i guess, his numbers are up a bit and he's healthy. he's sort of going through the motions but the stats would never tell you that. i suppose that's the silver lining on the cloud.

but unless his play changes- and why would it?- the raps are going to have a much harder time playing to potential. he's not a cancer, and he still shows more spirit than his teammates but his vacant looks and apathy are evident now, and possibly contagious.

it's a sensitive situation and i feel the raptors are stuck with him in the starting five. they cannot demote him because they cannot risk him blowing up (no third pg), neither do they want to hurt his trade stock. the only way it turns around, imo, is if the raps win this series and the offseason becomes less important.

peace


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Ok, Sam said it today.

Bargnani will start Game 2.

I honestly am just speechless. What a great time to experiment with our starting lineup.

If it's broke, Dont fix it.


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

Man, what an odd thing to do. Moon musta dissed Sam's momma or something


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Not sure I get the starting lineup change...but I guess we have to live with it.
Maybe Sam will prove to be a genius today.

*Go Raptors Go!*


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

i'm ecstatic due to the bargnani change, absolutely ecstatic. bargnani needs it, imo, but more importantly, the team needs it too. it's not like we had any upside with the old lineup. they had plateaued a long, long time ago and had been running in circles ever since.

i'm thrilled.  i think this will pay off.

peace


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Sam doesn't get the credit he deserves for keeping Kapono fresh for the playoffs by not using him all year long. Brilliant move. Nobody expects Kap to shoot from 3 anymore, and then BANG, he starts popping them in the playoffs.

And the playoffs is the perfect time to throw Bargs into a position he has not played all year long and hope for the best. Why do that in Feb?

I thought Sam would wait until we were down 0-2 in the series before doing desperation moves. This is actually more flexibility than he has ever shown before. Job on the line?


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Game is underway in 3 hours and 45 minutes (I think forgive me if I am wrong because I am guessin the time difference), I wont get to see it but I will see the San An vs Phoenix game as thats the one the UK basketball broadcaster has decided to show (cant agrue really!!) ... Hopefully I will get some highlights of the Raptors game though :biggrin:

We really need game2 I think, the hype machine has already started talking like we are going to be wiped aside...


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

shadow lewis, turk & evans

do not close in on howard

let the big man try to win the game alone for orlando

throwing doubles @ the man didn't do anything except screw us in the 1st quarter alone.


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Andrea starting game 2. Let's go Il Mago.

GO RAPTORS!


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

7 pm.....starting to get hyped up!


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

20 mins to go... boy i cant wait to watch this box score scroll haha..


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Porn_Player said:


> 20 mins to go... boy i cant wait to watch this box score scroll haha..


I will see if I can give you a little play by play!


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

Porn_Player said:


> 20 mins to go... boy i cant wait to watch this box score scroll haha..


dude, you know fan590.com has the live radio feed, right?

peace


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

I have tried games on 590.com and have been blacked out before!


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

do they black it out when its not rapstv? cause ive tried listening for games that were on raps tv and they were black out.


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

I am listening to Leo Rautins breakdown the raps D from the last game and I wonder if Sam went over these points. They seem so simple


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

My computer is shockingly bad so a live radio feed may cause the house to blow up :biggrin: 

Thanks billflindlay would be appreciated maybe quarterly summaries of how each player is actually playing despite what the stats are showing (that would be awesome of you) 

1.41 am here its about game time woooo...


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

game time baby!


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Looks like Hedo has come to play, being agressive...as is the Raps "D"


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Scrappy game to start.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Rasho for 2 tie game.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

no transition "D" 8 - 2 Orlando....not the start we want.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Ford starting to get sucked in to a one on one battle....


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Man are we playing like crap


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

get Jose in there, TJ isn't getting it done.


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

Are the Raptors aware they're supposed to be playing a PLAYOFF game? This is ****ing disgusting.

**** this.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Thats all the posting for me....I may smash my laptop if this keeps up.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

were playing like a barrel o' ******

what is it, 23-6 orlando in the 1st?


Gross.


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

This is total ****. why is rasho out. why isnt Kapono playing? why did our defense just suddenly fold?


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

horrendous defense!
this is sickening..


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

I am done with TJ. Totally didnt set the tone for a crucial game 2


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

Dwight Howard factor really setting in. we're driving and throwing it back out cause we dont want to get stuffed. I say just go straight at him and try to draw fouls


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

Rasho/Bosh/Moon/Defino/Calderon

the most effective lineup i think..


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Sam Mitchell needs to be fired. Why would he start Bargnani at the SF again when it clearly didn't work in game 1.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Oh my days, not sure I still want my end of quarter updates. TJ is playing like **** as far as I can tell and the team is settling for far too many 3pointers. Bargs still sucks dick. I am starting to dislike my own team.


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

gotta go to Bosh everytime when Foyle is on the floor


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

moon just had a nice steal, gotta go with moon next game no matter what, the dude just plays hard and is probably our best option


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

I think Stan van Gundy is toying with us, leaving Foyle in there for so long


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

Bosh to Kap or vice versa.. they need their touches..


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

We need to build on this little run and at least get the game down to single digits going into the half. Bargnani shouldn't see the floor again in this game, he just has no place out there against this team.


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

Bargnani shouldnt see anytime against the Magic period..


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

46-41 MAGIC

crazy

crazy run

for toronto


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

to TJ's credit.. he is really not letting his ego get to him.. great play in the 2Q!


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## junkyarddawgg (Mar 24, 2005)

Bosh playing some inspired ball... he's gotta get to the rim more though, not relying on his J.

Delfino with a bucket and now it's down to 5!!!


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

yeah, good job bouncing back from that first quarter. I seriously hope that Mitchell come to his senses and start Moon instead of Bargnani. That lineup is the reason why we were down.


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## kirk_2003 (Jun 23, 2003)

going by ballocks pattern.. we should come out big in the 3rdQ and look to seal it in 4Q!
great comeback!


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Way to treat me like usual Raptors. First quarter they drag me threw the dirt till I nearly have had enough and then out of nowhere Sam Mitchell does what the fans beg of him plays the right players and BANG were right back in it. 

Bosh having a monster game 23 points already!!! 

TJ is 1/6 and has 3 TO's which isn't great but seemed like even he came into the 2nd quarter playing much better ball and finding the right players... 

I cant stop smiling right now :biggrin:


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

The 3rd quarter is the season right there. If we come out flat again it's fishin' time. We need a lead going into the 4th. If we're behind in the 4th, it would be difficult to come back on the road.


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Second half...lets see what the next 24 minutes holds!


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

The raps are such teases


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

That trash talking that Dwight did to Carlos is gonna unleash the beast. That cold look that Delfino has....theres darkness behind those eyes


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Delfino always look like he's going to kill someone but he never does.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Wow, not much talk about the 3rd quarter. From what I can tell, Bargnani is still awful, we are still better with Jose and not TJ running the point, we are still jacking too many threes, Kapono and Bosh are still having great games ... Anybody care to add?


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

Kapono has 30 pts on 8-11 shooting..

BEASTLY


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

Delfino looks like an egyptian pharoah, and perhaps he should do some killing.


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

if could some mix Delfino with Jamario, we'd have a player thats willing to drive and can just dunk it over people. There are some drives that Delfino does that you just really wish he had the ability to slam it on the guy


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Come on #1 pick!


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

BARGS! hes earned back some respect.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

Delfino has so many huge jams this season, and they always hit back rim & fly into the 5th row.. it's really sad and frusterating.

BTW Bargnani is hitting shots as i type. two in a row infact.. the sky is falling.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

delfino hurt


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

Calderons got his shot down its good to see


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

yep, i knew bargs would let me down on the defensive end


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

wow, Keith

keith can suck my bogan.

i'm pissed, & he's clutch./


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

delfino with a huge 3 94-98


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

Delfino big cold blooded 3.


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

3 in the key orlando


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

CALDY! huge 3


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

Calderonnnnnnnn another 3

1pt magic lead

REJECTION BY BOSH


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

man, we rushed it there. 1 point game still


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

Kapon- No

damn


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

Dont let the 3 ball beat you - that means let Bosh play Howard straight up and have Howard beat us on offense with hooks 8 feet out. We're close, just need to seal the deal.


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

CALDERON! 3!!! tie game!


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

Calderon Treize

Tie


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

delfino shooting 2, tied at 100, these are gonna be huge


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

Carlosssssss

los los los

damn FT... 1pt toronto lead of 1/2 ft


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

Throw a zone on these guys out of the time out to switch it up. If Howard gets it inside foul right away and send him to the line.


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

HOLY ****! grab a rebound for pete's sake


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

Uncle Howie got fouled.

nice giveaway Chris...


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

hedo....that was pretty huge.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

****

tough tough tough shot by the turkey.

102-101 Orlando... TORONTO BALL, 30 seconds on the clock./


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

i say we give the shot to calderon, hes been hot


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

we just got the **** swatted from us

...

..

fouled Hedo.

he-do better not.


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

Good call on going for the 2 and extending the game. Didnt like the play setup for Bosh - they wont call contact late against the home team.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

104-103 Magic

good coverage on the inbound

magic burn a TO

9 seconds left...


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

man, we arent gonna get those calls during the playoffs, not during close games. atleast he tried


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

wow, offensive foul. that was unexpected. still gotta execute though


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

OFFENSIVE FOUL BY DOOLING

TORONTO BALL
down 1

9 seconds!

Calderon took a shot to the face


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

Kapono to inbound, hopefully he gets lost and is open for a perimeter shot. Cmon, make it happen!


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

kick out to Kapono, I say we dont even mess with howard inside


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

wow, what a weak play.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

WTF kinda play way that , Raps run that play all the time but again Take away the 1st quater and the Raps win this game , I'm is shock this game was there for the taking


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Drive the ****ing ball on that last play Bosh!


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

....

what can you say about that..

....

game ends on a missed Bosh jumper off the pick n' roll.

good win orlando, that crowd looked good for once down in florida. maybe they'll give us some respect now for truely giving the magic a war.

time for two in T.O.

those 1st quarters dude, no excuses in the loss, but they will be the death of us, Seriously.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Ouch. I am so upset it's 4.15am and I am tired and dissapointed.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

well, our backs are against the walls now. Need to take it one game at a time.

I think Mitchell should go with Moon a bit more. He sure could've helped out on the boards at the end there.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

and I seriously hate that 18 footer Bosh takes at the end of games. Did he not learn from last year? We had a lead and he took that foul line jumper against Collins and that's what cost us the series. He need to pass it back out to one of our shooters and have them win the game for us instead of forcing the issue.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

we' must really like being the underdog eh

burying ourselves (what seems on purpose) like that after 1 quarters. waste all our energy getting back in the game and end the loss on such a weak shot.

homecourt is vital coming up, PROTECT HOME, magic did what they were supposed too... Anybody gonna watch the Suns/Spurs coming up on the score? i don't know


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

As Phil Jackson says, Game 3 is the most important of every series. Need to start and finish strong in that game and keep the crowd in it...


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## undefined_playa (Oct 23, 2005)

Bosh with the play of the game.....for Orlando

gets the rebound and then...throws it to the Magic's side? even if it was a save it seemed really half-assed. also Bosh should NOT have taken the last shot...i'd run it for Kapono or Delfino or Calderon, when was the last time Bosh hit a jumper in this series anyway??? weak finish, they GAVE US THE GAME and we still couldn't win 

this series is over...peace


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

Carlos, Kapono, and Jose were laying very well in the second half, Bosh was off, I know he is our 31 guy but come on.....man am I pissed!


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## TJ Ford (Dec 16, 2006)

Bosh with a somewhat fadeaway shot at the end over Dwight. Why is there an incessant need to let Bosh take THE clutch shot? Just because he is the franchise player doesn't mean he has to force this shot. Oh well, let's see what happens in game 3.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

seifer0406 said:


> well, our backs are against the walls now. Need to take it one game at a time.
> 
> I think Mitchell should go with Moon a bit more. He sure could've helped out on the boards at the end there.


Moon needs to sit Orlando was blatantly leaving him open daring him to shoot


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## undefined_playa (Oct 23, 2005)

^^^ true it seems that after he misses a shot or two his confidence in his shot takes a nosedive


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## Onions Baby (Mar 12, 2007)

Brutal no-call on Howard when he sent Bosh to the floor. That was all body bumping, no defense.

Hit your FTs Delf!


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

Wow, tough loss, but a very exciting game to watch. I love it when a game isn't decided until the very last shot. 

As it almost always does in the play-offs, it came down to defense and rebounding. You guys totally out shot the Magic in this one - from the field, from 3-point range and from the line, but you couldn't keep Orlando from scoring in the paint (50-26 points in the paint advantage for Orlando) and you couldn't keep them off the offensive glass (16 ORB for Orlando). 

On a night where Hedo and Shard went a combined 0-13 from 3-point range, you guys had a golden opportunity to steal one. I have no idea why Orlando totally stopped going to Howard in the 4th. He killed you guys in the 3rd and at the beginning of the 4th. But, he only got one FGA, a put back dunk, in the final 11 minutes of the game. I know he's not a great FT shooter, but seriously someone needs to tell Rashard when he's 0-7 from downtown, rather than jacking up misses 8 and 9, that occasionally pounding it in to the dominant big man might not be a bad idea. As they say, you live by the three, you die by the three and Orlando's insistence on shooting the long ball when they were down by one in the closing minute and a half almost cost them the game. 

Is it just me, or with the exception of Bosh, is your bench better than your starters? And, if so, why aren't they starting? Kaponono, Delfino and Calderon (especially) were huge down the stretch. They totally kept you guys in this game and gave you a chance to win. With the way he was knocking down the big shots, I thought for sure they'd run a play for Calderon on that last possession. And, I know there is some kind of Ford vs. Calderon debate going on in Toronto, but I just don't see what the issue is. Calderon is clearly better for your team than Ford. Which bums me out, because I'm a Blazer fan and had high hopes we might be able to get Calderon from you in a trade. Our GM supposedly made a big push to land him at the trade deadline, but fell short. The way he's playing now, I don't think we'll get another chance.

BNM


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

I didn't read the thread so I don't know if people are criticizing Bosh for that last shot.

You give it to your PF, about a foot in from the three point line, with 4 seconds left? What the HELL do you expect him to do? He's not going to get all the way to basket in time, and if he does, he's getting triple teammed, and there is not enough time for a kickout... And the other option would be to take a wild runner.. He didn't really have a choice there guys.

Just an awful play call really. The Magic KNOW we are going to go to Bosh. You draw up a couple screens to get Kapono open, who has been on a tear, or even give Parker the inbound, and run Jose around for an open three.

Great game though. Just depressing.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

Boob-No-More said:


> Is it just me, or with the exception of Bosh, is your bench better than your starters? And, if so, why aren't they starting? Kaponono, Delfino and Calderon (especially) were huge down the stretch. They totally kept you guys in this game and gave you a chance to win. With the way he was knocking down the big shots, I thought for sure they'd run a play for Calderon on that last possession. And, I know there is some kind of Ford vs. Calderon debate going on in Toronto, but I just don't see what the issue is. Calderon is clearly better for your team than Ford. Which bums me out, because I'm a Blazer fan and had high hopes we might be able to get Calderon from you in a trade. Our GM supposedly made a big push to land him at the trade deadline, but fell short. The way he's playing now, I don't think we'll get another chance.


No it's not just you. Your right.

Funny how a guy who is not even a Raptor fan can figure this out, and our coach has yet to put his finger on it. 

Ford, aside from a DISPICABLE first quarter, played well, but as always Calderon outplays him and comes down huge in the clutch. I thought Parker played like an absolute pansy tonight. He is allergic to the paint.. I think Delfino is better than him no doubt, despite his inconsistencies he brings the intangibles every night, and isn't afraid of contact... Bargnani and Kapono, well these two games tell the story there.. When you actually get Kapono open looks, he is a beast. When you ignore him and treat him like a Bruce Bowen type, like we did during the regular season, hes useless..

If one good thing came from this series, it's that Sam Mitchell will be gone. 100%..

Can we fire a head coach in the middle of the playoffs?


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## narrator (Feb 11, 2006)

bigbabyjesus said:


> You give it to your PF, about a foot in from the three point line, with 4 seconds left? What the HELL do you expect him to do? He's not going to get all the way to basket in time, and if he does, he's getting triple teammed, and there is not enough time for a kickout... And the other option would be to take a wild runner.. He didn't really have a choice there guys.
> 
> Just an awful play call really. The Magic KNOW we are going to go to Bosh. You draw up a couple screens to get Kapono open, who has been on a tear, or even give Parker the inbound, and *run Jose around for an open three*.


I thought that's what they were going to do. Instead they give it to Bosh (which is fine with me - he's the best player on the team and wants the ball in crunch time) but Bosh pulls up for a jumper (which is *NOT* fine with me because he's at his best when he's taking a bigger man off the dribble - and he can take Howard [or at least get fouled]). I would've been far happier with a wide open Calderon three than the Bash 18-20 footer.

Your other idea - getting Kapono open - is something I've been screaming for since January. It makes me very, very angry that Mitchell doesn't have 1-3 screens for Kapono on every play. This is a fundamental basketball play. This is something that worked for Reggie Miller for 250 years while he played. This is what the Celtics do for Ray Allen. Yet Mitchell would prefer to bury Kapono and use non-shooters like Moon. Don't get me wrong: I like Moon. He's just lost right now and should be nailed down beside Graham, never to move again. On the other hand, Brezec has 6 fouls and he should be hacking Howard all day, esp. in the first quarter.

I'm so ****ing mad right now. I'm so ****ing angry at the Raptors for not playing well. Okay, I can understand one blistering quarter in a series: **** happens. But 2? That's ****ing piss poor playing and even worse coaching. I'm getting worked up again just thinking about it. I better go do something else.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

there were some pretty big non-calls for toronto in this one. no excuse, it is the playoffs,& orlando is being really physical, bodying us is our weakness, but we are not flopping, those are hits that should be called. you can't swallow the whistle because it's the playoffs, then be giving out technicals. i don't even think the tech on dwight should have been called.

great game played by orlando but we should have stole this one. we are either too mentally or physically weak, i can't decide what it really was.

maybe it was just sam mitchell, but i hate to throw him under the bus.

up to the final shot, bosh did was he was supposed too, almost to perfection... was that really a written up play....


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

the calls were pretty balanced I thought for both side, with us maybe getting a bit of an edge. On that last play Bosh still had about 5 seconds when he caught the ball. He should've went inside or maybe try to swing the ball.

But bigbaby is right, that was a horrible play drew up by Smitch. Orlando is a better team than us but our coach isn't making it any easier for us either.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Also I still think Rasho or Moon should be on the floor at least on the defensive end in the last minute. There was no way in hell we were getting a rebound unless it bounces right to us, you can't get a stop if you can't get the ball, it's that simple.


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

Good game Raptor fans.


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## Balzac (Jun 29, 2006)

Who should start game 3? T.J. has sucked horribly so far.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

what a fantastic game. that's the most fire i've seen on this team's face all year. so much fun. so many things to like.

#1) calderon's shaken off the nerves that hurt him in game 1 and honestly, from the looks on nelson's and dooling's faces all game, it's only a matter of time before forderon start to abuse them repeatedly. we're down two, though, that's the only problem. 

#2) i think sam mitchell coached an excellent game. bargnani was doing some things early that would've glued him on the bench in january (transition defense, anyone?) but sam stood firm and vented to his assistants instead (which is what they're there for). in the end, i think it led bargnani to have a decent game in the second half, and turkoglu should've fouled out for using his hands on andrea as much as he did. in three years andrea bargnani will be molesting defense the kind that hedo played tonight, the problem is... we're down two and we need that now.

#3) ford is going to get a bad rap but i loved him tonight (at least when he was on the floor). he's still missing shots but you can't blame him for that- it's the shot attempts that ought to be judged, imo, not the makes and misses, and he will own dooling on thursday, you can book it.  

#4) i love our free throw shooters. delfino missed a big one, but it only sticks out because everyone else is money. i mean, this team can shoot frees like there's no tomorrow- calderon 90+, tj almost 90, bosh 85+, kapono 100+, bargnani 80+... like _everyone_. if we ever started making it to the line, teams wouldn't have a chance.

#5) bosh is clutch, too, superclutch. at least at the line. and when it comes to the final shot, i was all for it. i think people are upset now that it didn't go in, not that it was a bad idea. howard on bosh 18 ft from the basket while the magic's help defenders are terrified to leave calderon, parker, delfino or kapono wide open? my only sticking point is that bosh didn't take it to the rim- help was not coming, and even if it was, it wasn't close enough to catch him, *and* there's no way in god's country that howard could have avoided picking up a foul on that play. i think the refs were willing to give it to him too, seeing as how they missed the call on bosh on the previous sequence. shooting the jumper ensures you get a shot, chris, that's true, but taking it to the hoop ensures at least a trip to the stripe, and with you, that means 2 points. oh well. next time.

#6) anyone see the anger on jose's face when he came in in the first? legend. he hit his first three, didn't even salute.  parker later missed a jumper and while i don't know what jose was saying to him, he was not a happy camper- and what could he have been saying? imo, and this is ridiculous, but it must've been, "hit the goddamn shot, anthony!" or something along those lines. i mean, i'm hoping that jose's as tired of parker's poor play at inflection points in games as i am, and i just hope he called him out because no one else would. parker is a good player 90% of the time (and a great guy 100% of the time), but when it really matters, when the team really starts to depend on him and the chips are down, he seems to go in the tank. when i talk about big free throws, for instance, i've made it known that he's the last guy on the team that i'd want at the line- and not because he's a bad shooter, but because he's probably going to miss. he needs to see a therapist or something (!) because we could really use him 100% of the time, not just 90%. maybe jose can be that therapist. 

#7) we really match up well with this team. i think the rest of the league would call our series "softy vs softy."  it makes it that much more interesting because we're not afraid to show our competitive juice, and neither are they. there's not an enforcer to be seen in the building (unless you count brezec) and that should bring out our best and their best. the 'fear' has been checked at the door. can't wait for game three.

sea of red


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

Balzac said:


> Who should start game 3? T.J. has sucked horribly so far.


If I was coaching the team, I'd start Rasho, Bosh, Moon (for defense - just long enough to keep Orlando from getting their customary 17 to 20-point 1st quarter lead), Delfino and Calderon. Then after 8 - 9 minutes bring Kapono in for Moon and run him off some screens to get him some open looks. That should keep it close in the 1st quarter (probably even give you the lead, for a change), which seems to be your biggest problem in this series, so far. 

I think it would also light a fire under TJ and he'd kill Orlando's second unit when he subs in for Calderon. I know he says he doesn't want to come off the bench - which is exactly why I'd do it now. He's looked very lethargic at the start of both games, and putting a big old chip on his shoulder by benching him during the play-offs, when everybody is watching, may be just the wake-up call he needs.

I'd also play Rasho more than 5 minutes as he's the only big you have that stands a chance at keeping Dwight from killing you on the offensive boards. He won't stop Dwight from getting offensive boards, but he will put a body on him and make him work for what he gets. If he boxes out hard, playing at home, he may even get an over-the-back call or two on Dwight. Rasho played GREAT over the last month of the season, possibly the best ball of his entire career, and tonight against a team with a dominant center he gets a lousy FIVE minutes. He's not injured, is he?

Also, Moon, who is your best defender, started 75 games at small forward for you this year, and now the play-offs come and Bargnani, who hasn't started there all year is starting at the 3 spot. I'm not a Bargnani fan, but it hardly seems fair to the kid to throw him into such an unfamiliar situation when the games mean the most and the other team has skilled perimeter players. It almost seems like Sam is setting him up to fail. I don't understand why the change was made in the first place. Is there some kind of rift between your coach and GM that would cause your coach to deliberately make your GM's former No. 1 pick look bad? I can't imagine throwing Bargnani into a worse situation than starting him at center for most of the season and then expecting him to start at small forward once the play-offs arrive. You made the play-offs with Moon as your starting 3. So, why isn't he starting now. I know he's not a great shooter, but the inability to stop Orlando's shooters in the 1st quarter has your team in an 0-2 deficit. The Bargnani at the 3 weird science experiment failed miserably. Time to go back to what got you here.

BNM


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## ChristopherJ (Aug 10, 2004)

Start Calderon and play him starting minutes. If TJ doesn't like it then deal with it when the season is over. The Raptors need to win both at home and Calderon provides them with the best chance of winning.


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

I dont know what you guys are saying about the game.......Im just glad you didn't give the ball to Kapono for that last shot. phew. good game.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

If Mitchell really wants to keep Bargnani in the starting lineup, then he should just start him at center and play Moon at SF. I do not want to see Bargnani at the small forward spot again.

Ford stepped up his game in the 2nd quarter and did a good job in the Raptors come back. The problem was he struggled again in the 3rd and the Raptors lost their momentum. I think Calderon should get the start but my feeling is that TJ will still start game 3. If Mitchell stuck with Bargnani in game 2, why would he change TJ to Calderon in game 3? But to be honest, I don't think it really matters who starts. If TJ struggles I don't think Mitchell would leave him in there and will be playing Calderon heavy minutes like tonight. Like Ballocks said, for us to even have a chance to get back into this series, TJ and Calderon will both need to step up their game. Calderon has done it tonight, it is up to TJ to play better in game 3.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

And for TJ there should be a lot at stake in this series. How he play in the rest of the games will pretty much determine whether or not he'll be a Raptor next year. Even if he doesn't want to stay in Toronto, he would be playing for his reputation. If he's as competitive as he say he is in terms of competing against Calderon, then it must be a huge blow to his ego to be driven out of Toronto by his point guard rival.


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## ChristopherJ (Aug 10, 2004)

Slightly off-topic, but I don't see him being back. It doesn't make sense.

To loosely use an economic term, I equate the PG situation to the law of diminishing returns. There's no point in having two point guards with such greats talents if it means diminshing both their playing time. Trade Ford for a player who will provide depth in a position that needs upgrading(perhaps in a package deal). It's the logistical move to make.


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## Balzac (Jun 29, 2006)

Ford is not helping his trade value. 2 - 17 so far, with not a lot of assists and quite a few TOs. I think Bargnani HAS to play the 3. He guards Howard pretty well, but he cannot rebound to save his own life. Plus, he camps out at the 3 point line anyway. Thus, even when he plays the 5, he plays like a 3. The only reason why he's starting is because Mitchell wants Bargnani on Howard. 

Some posters have been calling for this all season: Kapono was tragically misused in the regular season. How fortunate for Mitchell that Kapono can step in with very little playing time and still contribute like this. What a damn waste, having such a weapon and not utilizing him. 

The tinkering Mitchell does for the playoffs are necessary to an extent. There's no way how the 41-41 team could go in and win the series. However, the adjustments he's made do not make much sense. 

One final note: Bosh takes way too many outside jumpers. And to stay at PF (he can play SF, IMO), he needs to add at least 10-20 pounds.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Bargnani plays like a 3 but he can't defend 3s. Turkoglu eats him alive when they are matched up against each other, the only people that we have that can stay with Turk is Delfino or Moon or Parker in an emergency situation. If we start Bargnani at the 5 the idea is to have Moon on the floor at the 3 to cover for Bargnani's rebounding woes.

Ideally I would only play Bargnani as a backup 4/5 for about 15 minutes a game, but Mitchell for some reason have his eyes on starting him as a small forward.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

seifer, turkoglu eats him alive? i'll have to respectfully disagree.  turkoglu went 4-15 yesterday, and 3 of the 4 makes were not even on andrea in the halfcourt set. 2 were dunks on the break (andrea's fault, granted) and the other was his wild finish over parker at the end of the game. if you subtract those three from the equation to see how he did against bargnani in the halfcourt set, turkoglu went 1 for 12- at best.

to this point in the series, i would emphatically deny that bargnani has had much trouble at all guarding his matchup around the perimeter. he doesn't close out well on jumpshooters when the defense collapses into help mode- in fact, he's probably among the worst at that part of the game- but staying in front of his man (especially turkoglu on the wing) has not been as much of an issue as you claim, imo.

i've seen a lot of good things out of that starting five (20 pt deficits notwithstanding ). i wish they'd stick with it and give it another chance. i know they're going to put rasho on the bench again but i have far more concerns about _that_ lineup than this one. after all, we saw it thirty+ times this year and it never worked. if tj ford and anthony parker can keep penetration in front of them, and if andrea can close out more effectively in the cases where they can't, this lineup will thrive, imo. we already know the other one (bosh/bargs/moon,kap,delf/parker/tj) won't. bargnani cannot defend inside without picking up cheapies, bargnani cannot rebound from there, and bosh cannot do it alone. 

peace


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## Onions Baby (Mar 12, 2007)

They keep talking about playing small ball, so I'm guessing our line-up might look like this;

5 - Bosh
4 - Kapono
3 - Parker
2 - Delfino
1 - Ford

It wouldn't surprise me, not one bit. That's what we went with down the stretch yesterday, might see it start tomorrow's game. If not Delfino or Kapono then Moon.


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

Onions said:


> They keep talking about playing small ball, so I'm guessing our line-up might look like this;
> 
> 5 - Bosh
> 4 - Kapono
> ...


If you go with that lineup prepare to see Howard go for 40/30.


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## MacDanny 6 (Jun 7, 2002)

Before this series I was expected a good hard fought series from both teams but I'm losing all my respect for this Raptor team. Every time they get bumped they go crashing to the floor to make sure they get a call, Calderon flops all over the place and clearly cheated on one of those last inbounds plays by pulling on Jameer's jersey so he couldn't get free, then he was grabbing onto Bogans so he couldn't move. During the season i thought this guy was becoming a star, now I hate him more every time I look at him. 
Then I hear some Raptor fans saying at the end of the game that that was a foul on Dwight when Bosh drove to the basket. The Raptors didn't deserve any call to go their way for all their theatrics out there. They deserve to be swept!! No team that flops 24/7 and tries to cheat like that deserves to even win a playoff game. If you can't win a game the right way, then get the hell off the court!


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

Onions said:


> They keep talking about playing small ball, so I'm guessing our line-up might look like this;
> 
> 5 - Bosh
> 4 - Kapono
> ...


Actually, it was Calderon, not Ford, down the stretch yesterday. He was the main reason the game remained close over the last couple minutes.

BNM


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

MacDanny 6 said:


> Before this series I was expected a good hard fought series from both teams but I'm losing all my respect for this Raptor team. Every time they get bumped they go crashing to the floor to make sure they get a call, Calderon flops all over the place and clearly cheated on one of those last inbounds plays by pulling on Jameer's jersey so he couldn't get free, then he was grabbing onto Bogans so he couldn't move. During the season i thought this guy was becoming a star, now I hate him more every time I look at him.
> Then I hear some Raptor fans saying at the end of the game that that was a foul on Dwight when Bosh drove to the basket. The Raptors didn't deserve any call to go their way for all their theatrics out there. They deserve to be swept!! No team that flops 24/7 and tries to cheat like that deserves to even win a playoff game. If you can't win a game the right way, then get the hell off the court!


OKAY THERE

tell that to the nba champion spurs. what do you expect from probably the most international team in the league. not that i agree with what your saying, but it is basically a strategy overseas.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

MacDanny 6 said:


> Then I hear some Raptor fans saying at the end of the game that that was a foul on Dwight when Bosh drove to the basket.


It was a foul with the body


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## Onions Baby (Mar 12, 2007)

Boob-No-More said:


> Actually, it was Calderon, not Ford, down the stretch yesterday. He was the main reason the game remained close over the last couple minutes.
> 
> BNM


My bad, I know Calderon was down the stretch but in terms of who would start Mitchell said Ford would, so I put his name there.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

Onions said:


> My bad, I know Calderon was down the stretch but in terms of who would start Mitchell said Ford would, so I put his name there.


Sam already said Ford starting game 3 so what would the change be? my guess Barg to 5 and moon or Kap to 3 with Rasho on the bench


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## Onions Baby (Mar 12, 2007)

Kapono and Moon in... Nesterovic and Bargs out. Mitchell likes playing small ball vs. the Magic.. my best guess anyway.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

Onions said:


> Mitchell likes playing small ball vs. the Magic..


Then why has he been starting a 7-footer at small forward?

BNM


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## Onions Baby (Mar 12, 2007)

Because he thought it would create match-up problems.

If you watched any of the game, the Raptors were going super small late, using Kapono at the 4. Similar to what they did in their win vs. them earlier this year with Moon and Bosh in the frontcourt.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

ballocks said:


> seifer, turkoglu eats him alive? i'll have to respectfully disagree.  turkoglu went 4-15 yesterday, and 3 of the 4 makes were not even on andrea in the halfcourt set. 2 were dunks on the break (andrea's fault, granted) and the other was his wild finish over parker at the end of the game. if you subtract those three from the equation to see how he did against bargnani in the halfcourt set, turkoglu went 1 for 12- at best.


Bargnani played at the SF position for about 6 minutes yesterday at the start of the game and while he was out there the Magic like in the previous game ran up a lead. Mitchell tried to switch it up by letting Parker guard Turkoglu and Bargnani guard Mo Evans because Mo doesn't dribble penetrate as much, but it turns out that Parker is also pretty bad at guarding Turk because of his size.

Even Bosh said it after the game that there were way too many mismatches in the first quarter and that was the cause of the first quarter deficit. If you switch Bargnani with Moon, then everyone would be guarding someone that they at least have a chance of guarding, instead of matching slow with quick, short with tall, skinny with bulk, etc.

Mitchell going back with Bargnani at the C in the 2nd half should be a clear indication that the Bargnani at the SF was a failure. I don't want to see him at the SF again this series and I think he should only be able to play SF if the opposing team's SF is a defensive specialist like a Bruce Bowen or Shane Battier where their only offense is camping out for the 3.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

Onions said:


> Because he thought it would create match-up problems.


Yes, it did. Unfortunately, those match-up problems highly favored the Magic (for the 2nd game in a row).



Onions said:


> If you watched any of the game, the Raptors were going super small late, using Kapono at the 4. Similar to what they did in their win vs. them earlier this year with Moon and Bosh in the frontcourt.


I did watch it. So, why start big, dig yourself into a 17 - 20 point hole and then bring in the small line-up to try to pull it out? It didn't work in game 1, yet he went right back with the same starting line-up in game two, and SURPRISE, another INSTANT double-digit lead for the Magic. Makes no sense. Start the guys that give you the best chance of keeping it close in the 1st quarter and then go from there. At the very least, start Moon, your best defender, to keep the Magic from jumping out to a huge 1st quarter lead.

BNM


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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

Onions said:


> They keep talking about playing small ball, so I'm guessing our line-up might look like this;
> 
> 5 - Bosh
> 4 - Kapono
> ...


I'm sorry but if that is your line-up, prepare for Dwight to have another field day. And dont expect 'Shard and Turk to be so cold next game. You guys had a golden opportunity to steal a game and didn't capitalize. I will say you guy probably take one game up in Toronto(most likely game 4) but i see us winning this thing in 5......just too many matchup problems. :smoothcriminal:


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## chocolove (Apr 4, 2006)

MacDanny 6 said:


> Before this series I was expected a good hard fought series from both teams but I'm losing all my respect for this Raptor team. Every time they get bumped they go crashing to the floor to make sure they get a call, Calderon flops all over the place and clearly cheated on one of those last inbounds plays by pulling on Jameer's jersey so he couldn't get free, then he was grabbing onto Bogans so he couldn't move. During the season i thought this guy was becoming a star, now I hate him more every time I look at him.
> Then I hear some Raptor fans saying at the end of the game that that was a foul on Dwight when Bosh drove to the basket. The Raptors didn't deserve any call to go their way for all their theatrics out there. They deserve to be swept!! No team that flops 24/7 and tries to cheat like that deserves to even win a playoff game. If you can't win a game the right way, then get the hell off the court!


dude, spurs...


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

seifer0406 said:


> Bargnani played at the SF position for about 6 minutes yesterday at the start of the game and while he was out there the Magic like in the previous game ran up a lead. Mitchell tried to switch it up by letting Parker guard Turkoglu and Bargnani guard Mo Evans because Mo doesn't dribble penetrate as much, but it turns out that Parker is also pretty bad at guarding Turk because of his size.
> 
> Even Bosh said it after the game that there were way too many mismatches in the first quarter and that was the cause of the first quarter deficit. If you switch Bargnani with Moon, then everyone would be guarding someone that they at least have a chance of guarding, instead of matching slow with quick, short with tall, skinny with bulk, etc.
> 
> Mitchell going back with Bargnani at the C in the 2nd half should be a clear indication that the Bargnani at the SF was a failure. I don't want to see him at the SF again this series and I think he should only be able to play SF if the opposing team's SF is a defensive specialist like a Bruce Bowen or Shane Battier where their only offense is camping out for the 3.


i do think you're exaggerating. you probably know you are. "a failure" "at least have a chance of guarding"- just go through the game tape and point out a single sequence where andrea got beat off the dribble by turkoglu or lewis. i couldn't find one. his problems on the magic threes, imo, had nothing to do with staying in front of his man and matching their foot speed. to be honest, i don't know even how turkoglu can be seen as quicker than andrea at all- let alone so much quicker that it causes the entire team's defense to fall apart.

i'm not _entirely_ against pulling rasho out of the lineup since the magic don't really have a four, and andrea would be manning-up on turkoglu again anyway, but i think it's the principle that should be argued. in the halfcourt set, andrea bargnani is more comfortable guarding threes, to speak nothing of the fact that he seems to calm down considerably on the offensive end when he's the fifth option on the floor (as he is when rasho and bosh are out there with him). he does float back on defense, which is something that'll kill him when his man's a perimeter player and is something he'll need to address, but to suggest the man can't play out on threes in the halfcourt is unfair. in fact, i would say it's patently untrue. but maybe i missed a play or something. 

peace


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

ballocks said:


> i do think you're exaggerating. you probably know you are. "a failure" "at least have a chance of guarding"- just go through the game tape and point out a single sequence where andrea got beat off the dribble by turkoglu or lewis. i couldn't find one. his problems on the magic threes, imo, had nothing to do with staying in front of his man and matching their foot speed. to be honest, i don't know even how turkoglu can be seen as quicker than andrea at all- let alone so much quicker that it causes the entire team's defense to fall apart.
> 
> i'm not _entirely_ against pulling rasho out of the lineup since the magic don't really have a four, and andrea would be manning-up on turkoglu again anyway, but i think it's the principle that should be argued. in the halfcourt set, andrea bargnani is more comfortable guarding threes, to speak nothing of the fact that he seems to calm down considerably on the offensive end when he's the fifth option on the floor (as he is when rasho and bosh are out there with him). he does float back on defense, which is something that'll kill him when his man's a perimeter player and is something he'll need to address, but to suggest the man can't play out on threes in the halfcourt is unfair. in fact, i would say it's patently untrue. but maybe i missed a play or something.
> 
> peace


I don't remember any play in particular in game 2, but in game 1 there were quite a few in the first 3 minutes.

As I said, Bargnani only played SF for about 6 minutes in both games and we happen to be down by double digits both times. If you want me to pinpoint the exact play where Bargnani "failed", I can't do it off my memory and I don't have the tapes with me. Either way, we need to stop Turkoglu from penetrating like he did in the first quarter. I noticed that Parker ended up guarding him eventually and he couldn't stop him because of his size. I would assume that the only reason they went with Parker is because Bargnani couldn't guard Turkoglu in game 1.

You have to agree that there were mismatches all over the place when Bargnani was playing the 3. Bargnani will probably have a easier time guarding Lewis, but that would mean Bosh has to guard Turkoglu because he sure isn't going to guard Mo Evans. Frankly I don't want Bosh to be guarding Turkoglu because not only that he can't do it, he would use up too much stamina chasing the guy all over the place. With Lewis at least he just camps outside and not dribble drive as much.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

And as I said, Bargnani has a chance to play SF, he just can't do it in this series. The only type of SF that Bargnani can guard are bigger SFs or 3pt shooting SFs that don't really put the ball on the floor. Tayshaun Prince is about the quickest guy that Bargnani can guard, anyone faster than him then Bargnani will have trouble staying in front.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

seifer0406 said:


> And as I said, Bargnani has a chance to play SF, he just can't do it in this series. *The only type of SF that Bargnani can guard are bigger SFs or 3pt shooting SFs that don't really put the ball on the floor. Tayshaun Prince is about the quickest guy that Bargnani can guard, anyone faster than him then Bargnani will have trouble staying in front.*


i'm sorry, where is the evidence? i can't give you this point. it may still be true, but it has not yet been proven. that's my point. a major part of turkoglu's game is to put the ball on the floor, and andrea bargnani has not had any more trouble "staying in front of him" than he has staying in front of dwight howard or zydrunas ilgauskas or brendan haywood. if anything, the opposite is true (imo). 

the magic threes have simply not been driving successfully against andrea- part of that may or may not have to do with his terrific agility and passable foot speed for a seven footer, but i think it does have to do with his length/size. on most occasions, imo, hedo turkoglu has chosen to not drive simply because there's been an agile 7 ft 240 pd'er standing in front of him.

i don't see how it's appropriate to criticize bargnani's man-on-man defense in game 1 to form an opinion on how he should be used in game 3. everyone was beat off the dribble in game 1- every single raptor, pretty much every single time.  imo, we can't just ignore what happened in game 2 for the sake of convenience in an argument. he showed a lot of good things on defense in game 2, especially in halfcourt sets, and i just wish he hadn't been embarrassed twice in a row by the turkoglu dunks (due to andrea's lethargy) in the first q. if those didn't happen, i don't think anyone would be talking about moving him out of the three spot. there was nothing in game 2 that showed me he couldn't do it, and quite a bit that showed me he could. 

the raptors did not fall behind by 17 in game 2 because of andrea bargnani playing sf and tj ford playing the point. that's just a bias that some people would like to believe without citing evidence, imo. i think the same thing would have happened with jamario (or delfino or kapono) at sf and calderon at the point (as we saw countless times a month ago). the team cannot afford to make changes for the sake of changes, imo. if they're going to make changes, they'd better make them on account of things they _believe_, not _want_ to believe.

peace


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

The bottomline is, this is the playoffs and you don't have the luxury of going troubleshooting and find out what exactly is wrong with your team. If you changed something going into the playoffs and it hasn't been working, the logical choice is to change it back first and not create a second change in order to fix the first change. Where does this end? Is there any proof that the Raptors can't beat the Magic with the original starting lineup? The Raptors have used plan A for almost 2 years and it has worked somewhat. And for some reason they are forgoing plan A this series and jumped straight to plan B and it hasn't worked. Now we're going to go to plan C and keep changing things without ever finding out whether plan A is working?

I'm sorry, maybe there is a time for this self-exploration. But the playoffs is neither the time nor place not to mention the small sample size that would void the experiment even if it's having moderate success. And to clarify, I'm not against experimenting Bargnani at different positions, heck, play him at SG if Mitchell wants to, it's just that teams don't usually go searching positions of a starter in the playoffs. That's what summer league and the regular season are for.


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## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

Sorry ballocks, I respect your opinion, but I have to agree with seifer on this one. Whether, or not, it's Bargnani's fault is immaterial. This isn't the time for finger pointing. The fact is the starting line-up Sam used in games 1 and 2 has failed miserably. The results have been astoundingly clear - down 20 after the 1st quarter in game 1 and down 17 in game 2. The whys, hows and wherefores don't really matter at this point. Leave that failure analysis for the off season. Right now, you need to find a way to stop giving up instant double-digit leads in this series, or it's going to be over.

I still don't understand the reasons for the change. You made the play-offs with Moon starting at the 3. He's your best defender. You're giving up an average of 39 points in the 1st quarter and spotting the Magic an average 18.5 point lead. You don't have to be Einstein to see this isn't working. You need to go back to what got you here. Get guys back to playing their familiar roles and hope it works better than the Sam's ill-timed "experiment".

BNM


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

ok, i'm going to avoid commenting on whether this was the 'right' time for the change or not. that's not what i took issue with.

it was the claim- that i've heard many others state around toronto today and yesterday- that andrea hasn't been able to stay in front of his man on the perimeter. that is simply not true. he has absolutely been able to keep with his man (usually turkoglu) off the dribble.

whether andrea should even be in the position to allow us to have this discussion is another debate entirely.

peace


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Well, unless we see Bargnani play a variety of teams, we are not going to see proof of whether or not he can guard small forwards. When I said that he could only guard a certain type of 3s, I'm saying that because I've seen him cover those kind of players in the past in stretches during games and he has been able to at least do the job adequately. If he surprises me in the future then that's a different story, but I'm not going to assume something until I see it.

And to reiterate, I am not blaming our losses on Bargnani. I'm blaming it on the decision to alter our starting lineup at the last moment and putting our team at a disadvantage by not being in sync. This is the playoffs after all and the Raptors should have bigger fish to fry. I'm certainly more interested in our players finding out whether or not they can get to the 2nd round rather than Bargnani finding out whether or not he can guard 3s. Theres a time and place for everything and even if this is a brilliant idea it's not the right time or place to unveil such innovation.


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## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

i'm surprised we haven't seen more of kris humphries this series...............





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## Blue (Jun 21, 2007)

do whatever you want, just dont start Kapono.


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