# Pau Gasol or Jermaine O'Neal?



## pacerfan23 (Jun 14, 2005)

**Jermaine O'neal or Pau Gasol* POLL*

Ok please settle this for me, you are a GM starting a Franchise, which player
would you rather have?

Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol ??

Thanks


----------



## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

I wouldn't START a franchise with either one of them, but I'd take O'Neal over Gasol easily.


----------



## southeasy (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

what that mediocre fat guy said pretty much exactly


----------



## rock747 (Aug 3, 2004)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

To me its pretty easy, Jermaine O'neal.


----------



## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Though I like both, I'd take J.O. just because I like his game alittle more.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

I'd take O'Neal, because he's a better defender, but his inefficient play on the offensive side of the ball (and 43% shooting) leaves a lot to be desired. 

Gasol has never been featured in his 4 years in the league. Memphis needs to get him a real PG in the worst way and not shuttle him in and out of the lineup.


----------



## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

J.O. is better at everything

as far as Pau not being feature as a true #1 guy in memphis....maybe he isn't good enough to be featured...I want him to get more playing time but, maybe West sees he isn't good enough


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Pretty tough comparison, considering Gasol's had the title of "least amount of shots per game for a go-to-guy" for a couple seasons running now.

O'Neal's been the centerpiece for the Pacers for multiple years now, and he's established himself as one of the better PFs in the league, but certainly not in the conversation for "the best." His shooting percentage is rather shoddy, and he's got a habit of getting injured at crucial junctures. The types of injuries he's had will, IMO, limit him in the future.

Gasol needs to be featured, and soon. His coaches and his guards never seem to give him the ball, despite him getting the job done whenever he gets it. He still needs to add another 10-15 pounds, which will in itself improve the other low points of his game, but from anyone who's seen him play, it's pretty obvious that the best is yet to come from him, especially if he gets put into a situation like O'Neal has.

Neither are guys who you can build a franchise around by themselves though, like the opening post implies. But I have to respect the point being made by a guy who a) doesn't know how to spell one guy's name; and b) isn't bright enough to know how to add a poll.


----------



## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Niether are franchise players but its easily Jermaine O'neal.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



tone wone said:


> J.O. is better at everything
> 
> as far as Pau not being feature as a true #1 guy in memphis....maybe he isn't good enough to be featured...I want him to get more playing time but, maybe West sees he isn't good enough


Any Memphis fan will tell you that Gasol's the best player on our roster. Who else is supposed to be our featured player? Shane Battier? Jason Williams? Lorenzen Wright?

Gasol's a better shooter than Jermaine, evidenced by his 50 percent shooting percentage over the past two seasons, compared to O'Neal's 44. I don't really care to look up the career numbers - Gasol's shot about 50 percent for his entire career. Does a few other little things better than O'Neal as well - passing, etc.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

This is pretty easy because O'Neal is a better player and it's pretty difficult to find an effective interior defender like him.Gasol isn't really able to defend first rate bigs and he doesn't offer you much that you can't replace relatively easily.


----------



## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Without question J.O.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

I saw a game where Gasol had 21 or 25 at halftime and was dominating (opponent slips my mind) and then Jason Williams proceeds to freeze him out for the entire 3rd quarter. He ended up with like 30, but you can't score if guys can't/won't give you the rock.


----------



## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Pau may be a better shooter...but FG% isn't really fair to J.O. since he average 7 more shot attempts...also, Pau's not a better passer than J.O. and if he is, its by slim margin...

J.O. is a much better rebounder & defender...


----------



## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Right now? I'd take JO. But if Memphis can actually build around Pau, meaning putting players around him that can feed him the ball, I think Pau can be a Top 5 PF. He has all teh potential too, and in the playoffs, he dominated teh Suns with like 25/15 one game. He does need to improve his rebounding so he is a double digit rebounder.


----------



## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Nevermind this post.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



tone wone said:


> Pau may be a better shooter...but FG% isn't really fair to J.O. since he average 7 more shot attempts...also, Pau's not a better passer than J.O. and if he is, its by slim margin...


So let me get this straight.

It's fair to Pau Gasol that Jermaine O'Neal is called a better player because he gets the opportunity to show what he can do and Pau Gasol does not.

But when Pau Gasol shoots five or six percent better than O'Neal, it's not fair to O'Neal because Jermaine gets the opportunity to show what he can do and Pau does not.

And yes, Pau Gasol is a better passer and playmaker than Jermaine O'Neal. In the NBA and especially in international play.



> J.O. is a much better rebounder & defender...


No argument. Pau often does not get his due on defense, but it's not a question that O'Neal is better in both of these aspects.


----------



## pacerfan23 (Jun 14, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

But


> when Pau Gasol shoots five or six percent better than O'Neal, it's not fair to O'Neal because Jermaine gets the opportunity to show what he can do and Pau does not.


Would somebody please give Gasol a cookie for shooting 5 or even 6% better 
in a Conference that does not play near as much defense? Thanks. :vbanana: 

Besides at some point you have to stop using the excuse that he had not had the opportunity, The better players eventually force the Coach's hand for more time, and if Gasol is the "diamond in the rough", teams sure are knocking down his door? Maybe you know something they don't?


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



pacerfan23 said:


> Would somebody please give Gasol a cookie for shooting 5 or even 6% better
> in a Conference that does not play near as much defense?


Would someone please give Jermaine O'Neal a cookie for being a better defender in a conference that does not play near as much offense? 

Anyways, Jermaine O'Neal is the better player only because of his advantage defensively and on the boards. I think Gasol is the better offensive player. He has more moves, a nicer touch, and doesn't settle for fallaways. He also isn't the black hole that O'Neal is. 

If the Pacers had Gasol instead of O'Neal, their offense would be noticably better. Their defense would suffer a pretty big drop off though, obviously, for the reasons I already pointed out.


----------



## Biggestfanoftheknicks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



HKF said:


> I saw a game where Gasol had 21 or 25 at halftime and was dominating (opponent slips my mind) and then Jason Williams proceeds to freeze him out for the entire 3rd quarter. He ended up with like 30, but you can't score if guys can't/won't give you the rock.



You only saw one game like this?? 


Anyway though I hate what comes out of his mouth I'd take JO for the defense but it's a much smaller margin than anyone believes. If Pau had the opportunities that JO had and a system built around him like JO did, then he'd be one of the highest scoring forwards in the league. The guy has more fakes and post moves than anyone in the NBA right now, he shot nearly 60% against the spurs in the playoffs two seasons ago. I don't know why the guy never gets daps because the fact is he is the most offensively talented ( not dominate) big man out there, the dude is a scoring machine. He just hates weights and won't rebound.


Also to the person knocking 6% better fg% do you have any clue how big that is over the long term?


Edit: Spelled Opportunities like a jerk.


----------



## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



HKF said:


> I'd take O'Neal, because he's a better defender, but his inefficient play on the offensive side of the ball (and 43% shooting) leaves a lot to be desired.


So O'neal shoots at 43% for one seaon in the past and that suddenly applies permanently?

O'neal shot 45.2% this past season, and a career 46.4% shooter.


----------



## mavsman (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Is this thread some sort of joke? Gasol is a nice player but Jermaine O'Neal by a mile.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



Biggestfanoftheknicks said:


> You only saw one game like this??


I watch a lot of Grizz games on LP, but one of those games stood out, because Gasol was killing and then Jason Williams was freezing him out and entire quarter and then he sat for a while and it was like he had a regular game, when if he was playing with a normal PG, he would have been well on his way to 40 points.

Too many guys trying to pad their stats rather then give the rock to Gasol. Speaking clearly about Bonzi Wells, Jason Williams and Earl "dribble, dribble" Watson.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



PacersguyUSA said:


> So O'neal shoots at 43% for one seaon in the past and that suddenly applies permanently?
> 
> O'neal shot 45.2% this past season, and a career 46.4% shooter.


As he drifts further and further away from the paint, he'll be shooting closer to that 43% than the career 46%.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

I'd take Gasol but that's just my feelings on it. I just think the type of team I would build wouldn't work with JO well.


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

I am glad this little thread came out this preseason because by this time next year this won't be so clear cut.

Pau, unlike JO and some other young bigs, has led his team to the playoffs as the unquestioned best player on his team. Once Jerry West clears the roster of player who wrongly think they will lead use farther than Pau, he will take the next step to All Star status.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

I think Pau is already considered an allstar type of player. He just isn't in the major star player range as of now


----------



## pacerfan23 (Jun 14, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



> Is this thread some sort of joke? Gasol is a nice player but Jermaine O'Neal by a mile.


Well Mavsman ,I posted this almost jokingly to prove a point, and for the most part, I was right. I am not sure how many GM's are pondering JO or Gasol?


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

jerm has never been an efficient scorer. i don't think he's ever ranked higher than 90th in the league in ppfga. it's definitely a negative for him.


----------



## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Would someone please give Jermaine O'Neal a cookie for being a better defender in a conference that does not play near as much offense?
> 
> Anyways, Jermaine O'Neal is the better player only because of his advantage defensively and on the boards. I think Gasol is the better offensive player. He has more moves, a nicer touch, and doesn't settle for fallaways. He also isn't the black hole that O'Neal is.
> 
> If the Pacers had Gasol instead of O'Neal, their offense would be noticably better. Their defense would suffer a pretty big drop off though, obviously, for the reasons I already pointed out.


 more moves....not Pau

all he has on the block is the baseline spin move for a little layup...people knock J.O's postgame but at least he fights for position on the block and bangs inside....he has the turnaround J...jump hook with both hands...thats more moves than pau

Pau's basically a face-up bigman

and its not like the Pacer are an offensive machine...they were on pace to be a good and open offensive team before the suspensions..but thats too small of a sample..people bring up Pau not getting the ball...lets talk about the Pacer's offense or lack of


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



pacerfan23 said:


> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> Well Mavsman ,I posted this almost jokingly to prove a point, and for the most part, I was right. I am not sure how many GM's are pondering JO or Gasol?


Actually, I believe the exact words were:



pacerfan23 said:


> I am sure if you asked anybody that was not a Grizzly fan they would 100% agree, trust me.


Not as clear cut as that.

Also, so everyone knows, this thread was the result of a thread on the Grizz forum where I said I wouldn't personally do a trade with Pau Gasol + a future first round pick + cash for Jermaine O'Neal.

Maybe the poll should've been who wins that deal instead.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Here's the 82games.com profiles for both players. Pretty interesting.

Jermaine O'Neal
Pau Gasol

I know Jermaine relied too much on fadeaways, but I didn't realize that 71 percent of his FGA are jumpshots..


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Pau may face you up, but atleast he is attacking the rim. O'Neal will have his back to the basket and actually end up going away from the rim for a fallaway. If he faces you up, it will be a jumper most likely. The percentages Rawse posted back this up.


----------



## Helter Skelter (Jun 27, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Jermaine O'Neal knows as "The other" , is not half player than Pau Gasol .

Pau Gasol is infinitely better than The other O'neal .

As well this comparision is ridiculous . Pau should be compare with Tim Duncan .

In the olympic games Jermaine lay himself open to ridicule and Pau was one of the biggest stars :clap:


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



Rawse said:


> Here's the 82games.com profiles for both players. Pretty interesting.
> 
> Jermaine O'Neal
> Pau Gasol
> ...


Tsk tsk... :clap: Those numbers don't look good for Mr. O'Neal.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



Helter Skelter said:


> Jermaine O'Neal knows as "The other" , is not half player than Pau Gasol .
> 
> Pau Gasol is infinitely better than The other O'neal .
> 
> ...


:whatever: Don't get foolish now. Gasol is not Tim Duncan and it's not even close. He's not even better than O'Neal, but he's close. He needs to become a better rebounder and defender.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



Helter Skelter said:


> In the olympic games Jermaine lay himself open to ridicule and Pau was one of the biggest stars :clap:


That's another good point, that Pau Gasol is a freakin' rock star overseas, where Jermaine O'Neal couldn't get anything going the last time he played internationally. Nothing memorable anyway.

"Who's a better basketball player?" isn't restricted to just the NBA.

Pau's not Tim Duncan though, although Pau's _style_ offensively probably best compares with Timmay's.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Yeah, who is the better basketball player and who is the better NBA player are two different questions, and in this case, have two different answers.


----------



## Biggestfanoftheknicks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



tone wone said:


> more moves....not Pau
> 
> 
> Pau's basically a face-up bigman
> ...



Wow. I'm only quoting this because you're so wrong. Pau had a ton of moves when his back is to the basket, he fakes all the time one of his best moves is to post a guy start faking right and then quick as lighting extend his left hand out and flip the ball in using a finger roll, he faces the basket as he's doing the finger roll but you're kidding yourself if you think the dude is a face up player.


Anyway, I forget to mention that another huge facet that often gets overlooked is that Pau passes quite well , unlike J.O.



Haha god bless 82 games, is JO a rich man's KVH who doesn't fold like a beach chair in the playoffs?


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

I wish Pau just put on another 10-15 pounds of some muscle. His biggest weakness it seems to me is he just gets pushed around a bit too much in the block. Otherwise he's got some crazy length to his game and can finish well around the basket


----------



## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



Biggestfanoftheknicks said:


> Wow. I'm only quoting this because you're so wrong. Pau had a ton of moves when his back is to the basket, he fakes all the time one of his best moves is to post a guy start faking right and then quick as lighting extend his left hand out and flip the ball in using a finger roll, he faces the basket as he's doing the finger roll but you're kidding yourself if you think the dude is a face up player.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I forget to mention that another huge facet that often gets overlooked is that Pau passes quite well , unlike J.O.
> ...


 thank you for describing Pau's baseline spin move....


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



tone wone said:


> thank you for describing Pau's baseline spin move....


Pau has all the moves that O'Neal has, plus a great move to the baseline, plus a face up game that doesn't involve shooting jumpers instead of attacking the rim.


----------



## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Pau has all the moves that O'Neal has, plus a great move to the baseline, plus a face up game that doesn't involve shooting jumpers instead of attacking the rim.


thats cause he's a face-up player...J.O. is more comfortable with his back to the basket...andhe doesn't have J.O.'s moves cause he cant back anybody down

but you've made your point...but the so called gap offensively...isn;t nearly as big as the gap in defense...and rebounding...


I really like Pau's game and I wish he had a bigger role..basically just playing more minutes...

but he aint..and there must be a reason


----------



## Burn (Feb 2, 2003)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Yeah, the reason is depth. Same reason Jermaine couldn't get his *** off the bench his first few seasons in the league.


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

A lot changes in a season....this time last year most would have taken JO and Dirk over Amare...now not so much. The difference is a PG that got him the ball in the right places.


----------



## pacerfan23 (Jun 14, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



> you've made your point...but the so called gap offensively...isn;t nearly as big as the gap in defense...and rebounding


Thanks for summing up this entire post, Tone Wone.
enough said.


----------



## bball bomber (Jul 11, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Lol i just came in on the end of this one, but Pacerfan hit the nail on the head. No Doubt !


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



tone wone said:


> thats cause he's a face-up player...J.O. is more comfortable with his back to the basket...andhe doesn't have J.O.'s moves cause he cant back anybody down


O'Neal shoots as many jumpers as Kobe Bryant. He doesn't back people down or make moves inside. He might get position in the post, but that does absolutely nothing for you if the end result is going to be a fallaway or a jumpshot 71% of the time (as opposed to Gasol shooting jumpers 56% of the time). Amare Stoudemire is a face up player too, but he dominates the inside because he goes to the rim. Gasol goes to the rim. O'Neal doesn't go to the rim, he goes away from it. Whether or not he starts with his back to the basket or not is irrelevant given the results.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



Sir Patchwork said:


> O'Neal shoots as many jumpers as Kobe Bryant. He doesn't back people down or make moves inside. He might get position in the post, but that does absolutely nothing for you if the end result is going to be a fallaway or a jumpshot 71% of the time (as opposed to Gasol shooting jumpers 56% of the time). Amare Stoudemire is a face up player too, but he dominates the inside because he goes to the rim. Gasol goes to the rim. O'Neal doesn't go to the rim, he goes away from it. Whether or not he starts with his back to the basket or not is irrelevant given the results.


Also, in that link, it says that 18 percent of O'Neal's close-range shots get sent back in his face. No wonder he tries to fall away like he's Jamal Mashburn.


----------



## bball bomber (Jul 11, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Funny, I recall alot of times JO going hard to the rim. " Rolls the tape" hmm yep. Human Nature is to have short memory. I like both players really, but come' on let's get real ?


----------



## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Yeah, who is the better basketball player and who is the better NBA player are two different questions, and in this case, have two different answers.


Good and interesting point. Most times, people only think of one version of basketball (International or NBA) to guage who is the better player overall. Some classical NBA rankings would change in a major way if you did a list for top 10 NBA players under NBA rules and top 10 NBA players under international rules.


----------



## bball bomber (Jul 11, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Sounds like Rawse after wanting a Trade for JO , has changed his mind ?
Why all of a sudden ? I am confused , but I am new here...


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



bball bomber said:


> Funny, I recall alot of times JO going hard to the rim. " Rolls the tape" hmm yep. Human Nature is to have short memory. I like both players really, but come' on let's get real ?


Hi, Pacerfan23. :wave:

You can make your argument under _one_ screen name. That'll do just fine.


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

you may have tape of jo going to the rim, but the facts are that he shoots a low percentage, doesn't get to the line alot, and 82games shows him taking alot of jumpshots. he's just not an efficient scorer, regardless of how people remember him.


----------



## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



remy23 said:


> Good and interesting point. Most times, people only think of one version of basketball (International or NBA) to guage who is the better player overall. Some classical NBA rankings would change in a major way if you did a list for top 10 NBA players under NBA rules and top 10 NBA players under international rules.


 it wouldn't change that much...the KG, Duncan, Mcgrady, Iverson(yea I said it), Kobe would all still be top 10


----------



## bball bomber (Jul 11, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Hi, Pacerfan23. 

You can make your argument under one screen name. That'll do just fine.


Ok, did I miss something ? 
I am not sure what you mean ?

Do I know u ?


----------



## clien (Jun 2, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

jojo


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



bball bomber said:


> Hi, Pacerfan23.
> 
> You can make your argument under one screen name. That'll do just fine.
> 
> ...


Check your PMs. :bsmile:


----------



## remy23 (Aug 15, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



tone wone said:


> it wouldn't change that much...the KG, Duncan, Mcgrady, Iverson(yea I said it), Kobe would all still be top 10


Under international rules, I wonder if Dirk would be a more valuable asset than Duncan or Iverson. Some consider guys like Dirk or Peja "false superstars" but under international rules, those guys would be major players.


----------



## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



remy23 said:


> Under international rules, I wonder if Dirk would be a more valuable asset than Duncan or Iverson. Some consider guys like Dirk or Peja "false superstars" but under international rules, those guys would be major players.


 cause of the wider/trapizoid lanes and the short 3pt line...if Duncan aint surrounded with good shooters, he's gonna have hell...see the olympics..

but, Iverson played really well to me...but generally guys who rely more on athleticism than skill would have trouble...see Amare


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



bball bomber said:


> Sounds like Rawse after wanting a Trade for JO , has changed his mind ?
> Why all of a sudden ? I am confused , but I am new here...





Rawse said:


> Hi, Pacerfan23. :wave:
> 
> You can make your argument under _one_ screen name. That'll do just fine.


----------



## bball bomber (Jul 11, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Nope!

I work for the same company as Pacerfan 23, he sent me and a few others to look at this post and I signed up, so somebody owes me an apology!


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



bball bomber said:


> Nope!
> 
> I work for the same company as Pacerfan 23, he sent me and a few others to look at this post and I signed up, so somebody owes me an apology!


I wouldn't hold your breath. And hey, how did your English get better all of the sudden? :eek8:

Also, why is it that when one of you logs off, the other logs on? Surely, Reebok must have more than one computer. Or is Pacerfan23 on break right now?


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



bball bomber said:


> Nope!
> 
> I work for the same company as Pacerfan 23, he sent me and a few others to look at this post and I signed up, so somebody owes me an apology!


:rotf:


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*


----------



## bball bomber (Jul 11, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Ok ...


----------



## Helter Skelter (Jun 27, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

by the way , lebron and Tim Duncan failed too in the olympics games . 

Michael Jordan in his times was the best playing with international rules or NBA.

Conclusion : No one can be compare to Jordan . :allhail:


----------



## Sad Mafioso (Nov 7, 2004)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Toss Up.

Just like the times they've played against each other, Gasol has had JO's number and vice-versa.

I'd say O'Neal is a better overall player, but Gasol has the better offensive game even with an innept point guard. The problem with Pau is that he doesn't assert himself in to the games, when it matters the most(the clutch). It's not only from watching him play with Memphis, but with Spain.

Get the tape from USA vs. Spain(semi's). He dominated Duncan, Amare, Boozer at will in the first half, but pretty much dissapeared in the last 10 minutes.


----------



## pacerfan23 (Jun 14, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Ok apparently now I am posing as more than one person? Which is stupid and a waste of my time.
wow ! Rawse it's not that serious. GET A LIFE! "Mr. Moderator". When I joined this I just wanted to talk NBA i did not know I would have to compete with "Hall Monitor" aka RAWSE.


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

J.O. should not even be compared 2 Pau, it's just a disgrace, Gasol and O'Neal should not even be in the same sentence :curse: :curse: :curse:....
P.G. is soft and is allergic to playing D. and also fades when the game really matters.... 
How can you compare that to a 1 time MVP candidate, who is just a beast on the court and plays his A## on offense and defense, remember before he got hurt last season how he was averaging something like 29 PPG and almost 10 rebounds, and many forget had it not been for him courageously coming back we would of definetly not won against the C's...

P.S. J.O is without a doubt a franchise player so stop all the hate!!! :curse: :curse: :curse: 


*Go PaCeRs!!!!!!!!!!!! *


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



PaCeRhOLiC said:


> J.O. should not even be compared 2 Pau, it's just a disgrace, Gasol and O'Neal should not even be in the same sentence :curse: :curse: :curse:....
> P.G. is soft and is allergic to playing D. and also fades when the game really matters....
> How can you compare that to a 1 time MVP candidate, who is just a beast on the court and plays his A## on offense and defense, remember before he got hurt last season how he was averaging something like 29 PPG and almost 10 rebounds, and many forget had it not been for him courageously coming back we would of definetly not won against the C's...
> 
> ...


You must have missed those 82games.com stats posted. Scroll up.

"P.S..." :laugh: 

This turned into a pretty funny thread. Backfired pretty bad on the thread starter. I'll try to remember to bump this.

I'll be sure to put "Mr. Moderator" on my resume for when the admins promote me to "Head Hall Monitor."


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Saying before "O'Neal got hurt is a misnomer." More like O'Neal always puts up good numbers and then gets hurt and then shoots even more jumpers. He gets hurt every year. Shoulder, knee, mosquito bite on his bum, it doesn't matter with that guy.


----------



## pacerfan23 (Jun 14, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Yes Rawse 82games.com, that is the foremost publication on sports stats!

Since that seems to be the only one you can find that gives a quite unfavorable stance on Jermaine. Yes I think any fantasy geek can pull stats. The difference is actually being able to make your own opinion on what you see and being cognizant of what you're actually viewing. Please, Please keep bumping this Post, I know I will. In doing so you will keep the JO supporters coming back in droves. Thanks for doing my work for me, you just made my day. Until tomorrow have an enjoyable evening!

This is just starting to get fun ! :clap:


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



pacerfan23 said:


> Yes Rawse 82games.com, that is the foremost publication on sports stats!


Your downplaying 82games really shows how far your basketball goes.



> Since that seems to be the only one you can find that gives a quite unfavorable stance on Jermaine. Yes I think any fantasy geek can pull stats. The difference is actually being able to make your own opinion on what you see and being cognizant of what you're actually viewing. Please, Please keep bumping this Post, I know I will. In doing so you will keep the JO supporters coming back in droves. Thanks for doing my work for me, you just made my day. Until tomorrow have an enjoyable evening!


Uh. I'd long made up my mind before I checked 82games. That was out of curiousity, and it happened to back me up. Most of those stats are very ugly for O'Neal. 71 percent of his FGA are jumpers? He's also a surprisingly bad ball handler. I haven't seen you provide any logical reasoning as to why stats like these shouldn't be taken into account. You are implying that stats don't matter, but you've been pimping O'Neal's PPG, RPG and BPG from the start of the conversation.

You've already been proved wrong anyway. Your claim was that nearly 100 percent of non-Grizzlies fans would take O'Neal hands down. That's already been refuted, and there's no one here who's saying that Gasol is the more established player. So what's your point?

I guess I'll be seeing your multiple personalities down the line.


----------



## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

pacerfan, jerm is an inefficient scorer. he has a poor fg%, and a worse ppfga. his ppfga is always low - every year. 82games stats simply help to explain why he's so inefficient as a scorer. if 82games stats showed something different, like jerm attacking the rim, it wouldn't change the fact that he's an inefficient scorer.


----------



## Burn (Feb 2, 2003)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Yea the fact that Jermaine has horrible FG% for a big guy and that Pau is the most underrated and underutilized of the elite PFs is pretty well established, all that 82games link did was show to what extent it goes for both players. 

I actually like the Pacers AND the Grizz...and I would take O'Neal, but the margin between the two players isn't what you (Pacersfan in your many usernames) are making it out to be, and it's certainly not a "NO CONTEST!!!!!" type of margin.


----------



## djtoneblaze (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

LOL @ this even being a question AT ALL. Jermaine O'Neal is so much better than Gasol AT EVERYTHING that it's ridiculous. Gasol hasn't even improved since his rookie season; he's probably even more overrated than Ginobili.


----------



## djtoneblaze (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



Burn said:


> Yea the fact that Jermaine has horrible FG% for a big guy and that Pau is the most underrated and underutilized of the elite PFs is pretty well established, all that 82games link did was show to what extent it goes for both players.
> 
> I actually like the Pacers AND the Grizz...and I would take O'Neal, but the margin between the two players isn't what you (Pacersfan in your many usernames) are making it out to be, and it's certainly not a "NO CONTEST!!!!!" type of margin.


Yes, it is. Gasol is soft and overrated.


----------



## Burn (Feb 2, 2003)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

That's funny, because the last couple of pages of this thread seem to show that ONeal is soft and overrated...seriously though LOL @ THIS WHOLE DISCUSSION ROFLMAO


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



Burn said:


> That's funny, because the last couple of pages of this thread seem to show that ONeal is soft and overrated...seriously though LOL @ THIS WHOLE DISCUSSION ROFLMAO


When you consider that Jermaine O'Neal's vital stats are noticably better than Pau Gasol's, the "JO is way better, no question!" crowd sure has done a pitiful job of defending their position.


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

simply put O'neal is much better as a player .

he is a better scorer , defender and rebounder .

he's tougher , more of a leader as well.

he got hurt this past year the previous 4 he avg. 77 games a season so he is not injury prone. and gasol wasn't exactly the iron horse last year himself...missing 26 games himself, actually he missed more games due to injury than o'neal did last season.

pau gasol is seriously flawed as an nba power forward...he avg. 7.3 rebs this past season a trend going downward in his 4 nba seasons. 

his 4 seasons he has avg. 8.9 , 8.8 , 7.7 and finally 7.3 rebounds.

oneal has avg.10.5, 10.3 10.0 and an injury plagued 8.8 which is simply just better than pau can do fully healthy nowadays.

except for last season the pacers need jermaine to score less than the grizzlies need gasol to ...and he scores more anyway

gasol's impact on his own team is somewhat in the air last season...they were 17-9 when he didn't play 28-28 when he did.

gasol is a good player , but he isn't in o'neals class. 

Jermaine o'neal when healthy is a top 5 power forward in the nba with only garnett, duncan, amare and dirk clearly better . Gasol is possibly out of the top 10. ak-47, rasheed, webber , k-mart, bosh, brand and odom can all be considered better.Guys like okafor and howard can be better next year ,okafor is possibly as good as gasol right now anyway.


----------



## ThaShark316 (May 7, 2004)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

MY GOD @ some of these threads.

Gasol isn't in JO's league, period.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

The main reason Jermaine O'Neal is the better player with the higher impact is his defensive presense on the floor. Defends the paint very well, contests most shots and blocks a lot of them, guards the pick and roll well, etc. These are things Gasol is very average at, though he's by no means a poor defender, just not elite like O'Neal. 

I think that if Jermaine ever learns to bang inside more and develops a few more post moves, he'd at least be in the conversation with KG and Duncan. But as is, he's noticably inferior to both players offensively at times, and inconsistent too.


----------



## pacerfan23 (Jun 14, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

So far so good. Keep the posts coming. These are great. See what I started?
:banana: :banana: :banana: 

I would agree as well, JO is no Duncan or Garnett, just as Gasol is no JO, they all fall into different categories. With Artest back JO is not even the best player on his own team.


----------



## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

I'd go with Jermaine. He's a more well rounded player, a better leader, and appears to have more heart than Gasol.


----------



## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



Burn said:


> Yea the fact that Jermaine has horrible FG% for a big guy and that Pau is the most underrated and underutilized of the elite PFs is pretty well established, all that 82games link did was show to what extent it goes for both players.
> 
> I actually like the Pacers AND the Grizz...and I would take O'Neal, but the margin between the two players isn't what you (Pacersfan in your many usernames) are making it out to be, and it's certainly not a "NO CONTEST!!!!!" type of margin.


 under used..yes...underrated no..

even if he got more touches...it still wouldn't hide the fact that he's a 7' footer with no rebounding instincts and is a average defender...ball and weakside..

Indiana is the only team in the L that can compete with Memphis for the "deepest/most talented team in the league" title....Pau barely stands out in Memphis...J.O. is the best player in Indy..

cant believe some of these dudes trying play J.O. as some sissy jumpshooter who's always hurt...when Pau's the finess player who missed more games due to injury than J.O. did last year


----------



## Kunlun (Jun 22, 2003)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Although Jermaine is a better rebounder and defender, he's too soft and shoots too much. Pau is soft at times, but he doesn't shoot those stupid jump shots Jermaine does. Jermaine is also extremely overrated.


----------



## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Pau isn't asked to be the main man in the defense for Memphis most of the time. Remember they have a few energy players who can block shots. Pau's rebounding numbers should decrease as the team gets better and plays better defense. Ben Wallace's numbers have went down since Rasheed started playing PF for Detroit but no one is talking about a "downward" sprial for him. I am not trying to start an arguement here, just putting my two cents in on one of the issues brought up about some stats.


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



kamego said:


> Pau isn't asked to be the main man in the defense for Memphis most of the time. Remember they have a few energy players who can block shots. Pau's rebounding numbers should decrease as the team gets better and plays better defense. Ben Wallace's numbers have went down since Rasheed started playing PF for Detroit but no one is talking about a "downward" sprial for him. I am not trying to start an arguement here, just putting my two cents in on one of the issues brought up about some stats.


is any team so good defensively that pau has a valid excuse for avg. 7.3 rebounds? thats less than lebron james who plays shooting guard.

in fact the pacers are far better than the grizzlies defensively and o'neal rebounds much better. kind of killing that theory.

ben wallace downward spiral has him 2nd in the league in rebounding , its brought gasol to 30th(if he had enough games to qualify) below the likes of primoz brezec and memo okur.


----------



## djtoneblaze (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



disgruntledKNICKfan said:


> simply put O'neal is much better as a player .
> 
> he is a better scorer , defender and rebounder .
> 
> ...


How are Dirk and Amare "clearly" better than Jermaine?


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



djtoneblaze said:


> How are Dirk and Amare "clearly" better than Jermaine?



That's what I wanna know :curse: , specially Dirk, who is clearly better than Pau but in now way is he better or has the heart, and skills that J.O. posseses....



*Go PaCeRs!!!!*


----------



## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Wow, what a coming out party for Pacer homers. 

The guys who defend Gasol have been quite logical. I can't say the same for the people who say Jermaine is in a different league. 

As for the "injury-plagued" 8.8 RPG, when a player gets injured as much as Jermaine, I think it's not an excuse anymore. Injuries are really a part of what you're getting if you trade for/pick Jermaine.


----------



## bkbballer16 (Apr 28, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Neither but if i had to JO no douubt.


----------



## pacerfan23 (Jun 14, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

I want to start my Team with Darko !!!
He is the next Big thing ! :banana: :clap:


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



gian said:


> Wow, what a coming out party for Pacer homers.
> 
> The guys who defend Gasol have been quite logical. I can't say the same for the people who say Jermaine is in a different league.
> 
> As for the "injury-plagued" 8.8 RPG, when a player gets injured as much as Jermaine, I think it's not an excuse anymore. Injuries are really a part of what you're getting if you trade for/pick Jermaine.


gasol has missed more games due to injury than o'neal this past season.

the previous 4 years o'neal avg. 77 games a year . before that he wasn't apart of port's rotation he got alot of dnp-cd's

is it logical that you have called him injury prone?

i would say o'neal doesn't get hurt much at all.


----------



## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



disgruntledKNICKfan said:


> gasol has missed more games due to injury than o'neal this past season.
> 
> the previous 4 years o'neal avg. 77 games a year . before that he wasn't apart of port's rotation he got alot of dnp-cd's
> 
> ...


 actually, it isn't logical.....he got hurt in last years ECF but that was in game 6 of a 6 game series....

this season seemed as if he was hurt alot because of the 25 game suspension he really didn't play much...


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



tone wone said:


> actually, it isn't logical.....he got hurt in last years ECF but that was in game 6 of a 6 game series....
> 
> this season seemed as if he was hurt alot because of the 25 game suspension he really didn't play much...


i know it and you do...but some on this thread haven't quite figured this out yet.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



disgruntledKNICKfan said:


> gasol has missed more games due to injury than o'neal this past season.


That'll happen when you play four years straight with no rest.

I'm glad that he isn't playing in Spain this summer - I'd like to see how he does when he has a couple months to relax and hit the gym. He'd been a caballo in years prior.


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



Rawse said:


> That'll happen when you play four years straight with no rest.
> 
> I'm glad that he isn't playing in Spain this summer - I'd like to see how he does when he has a couple months to relax and hit the gym. He'd been a caballo in years prior.



its also easy not to get hurt if you never bang for rebounds, or stick your neck out in any way.

but its all theory , i just find it funny that people say o'neal is injury prone but its really even both tend to be healthy , and had a bad year last season with injuries.

but the whole thread is funny , oneal is a dominant player 

pau has never even been an allstar 

there really is no comparison.


----------



## Biggestfanoftheknicks (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

O'neal Dominant? WTF? Insanity over here, and really people enough with Pau being soft for averaging a little over 1 less rebound per game than JO come on get off it already by that logic Shaq is soft compared to Tim Duncan.


----------



## Nikos (Jun 5, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

It's basically a wash. Maybe I give the edge to Jermaine because of his defense, but Gasol has the edge on offense.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



disgruntledKNICKfan said:


> but the whole thread is funny , oneal is a dominant player
> 
> pau has never even been an allstar
> 
> there really is no comparison.


C'mon, there are only a handful of dominant players in the league, and Jermaine O'Neal isn't close to being one of them. 

Just waive a Pistons jersey at him, and then watch him go 2-11.


----------



## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



Rawse said:


> C'mon, there are only a handful of dominant players in the league, and Jermaine O'Neal isn't close to being one of them.
> 
> Just waive a Pistons jersey at him, and then watch him go 2-11.


by the same token you can wear a suns jersey and gasol will let you score all night out of sheer fright.

a right handed guy who cant use his right hand because of a bum shoulder.

gasol in a similar situation doesn't get in the gym let alone play.

thats why one guy is soft and the other one isn't.

i haven't yet heard a good explaination for gasol's 7.3 rebound avg.

o'neal had 8.8 but the previous 3 years he was in double figures...he can rebound , he had a bad year in the dept.

gasol avg. 7.7 the year before ...its not a bad year for him ...it who he is.


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Bump

Just because some say JO was not injury prone.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



Da Grinch said:


> gasol in a similar situation doesn't get in the gym let alone play.
> 
> thats why one guy is soft and the other one isn't.


I love it. 

Sure am glad Memphis has Pau instead of Jermaine. Suuuuuuure am glad...


----------



## lebron=mj (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Pau Gasol* POLL*

i would for sure start with gasol as he has shown many this season he is one of the best foreigners if not the best in the nba


----------



## PaCeRhOLiC (May 22, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Pau Gasol* POLL*

Get better soon J.O...



*Go PaCeRs!!!!*


----------



## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Pau Gasol* POLL*

JO, no doubt.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



ThaShark316 said:


> MY GOD @ some of these threads.
> 
> Gasol isn't in JO's league, period.


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Bumps are precious. By the way, Jermaine has missed a tons of ball games this season... again.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Gasol has made big strides defensively in my opinion, he uses his length a lot more effectively nowadays. And he is still the better offensive player. 

As far as JO, the guy is never playing so there isn't much to say about him.


----------



## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Pau Gasol* POLL*

I chose Jermaine becuase hes black like me and when things are pretty equal I always chose the black guy(out of love)...


----------



## Dodigago (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Pau Gasol* POLL*

Gasol

JO plays like 40 games a year now lol


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Pau Gasol* POLL*



Dragnsmke1 said:


> I chose Jermaine becuase hes black like me and when things are pretty equal I always chose the black guy(out of love)...


Nice satire. :clown:


----------



## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Pau Gasol* POLL*



Dodigago said:


> JO plays like 40 games a year now lol


He's played 40 this and last season, but before his 2-3 fluke injuries, he always played near full seasons...when he wasn't rotting on Portland's bench.

I'd still rather have Jermaine. Much, much closer than I would've thought 2 years ago, though. If Jermaine wouldn't be such a ***** on offense and actually try to box out, this would be a lot easier.


----------



## bandits1 (Mar 26, 2006)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Pau Gasol* POLL*

I believe Gasol is a bit underrated because of the Hubie Brown 10-man rotation he played in for a couple of years. He was ready to take steps towards becoming a go-to guy, but Hubie's rotation stifled him a bit. I would take Gasol over O'Neil based on having more upside. Jermaine, while already very good, isn't going to get any better. Gasol will.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*

Give me Pau... Everyone is saying that Pau would be better if he was the main guy. Well, we are starting a new franchise, and we are choosing who we'd start with of the two... So I would definitely take Pau. He takes good shots almost everytime, he doesn't force it, and he can pass. His D isn't that bad. JO tends to fadeaway and jack up shots too much.


----------



## DaBigTicketKG21 (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Pau Gasol* POLL*

Give me Jermaine. He is a 5-time all-star and has co-led his team to the NBA finals. Also, consistent 20-10-2blocks player. I would rather have Jermaine on defense as well.


----------



## paokun (Mar 31, 2006)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Pau Gasol* POLL*

hi everyone,
i'm on jermaine :clap: 

:banana:


----------



## Ryoga (Aug 31, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Pau Gasol* POLL*



DaBigTicketKG21 said:


> Give me *Jermaine*. He is a 5-time all-star and *has co-led his team to the NBA finals*. Also, consistent 20-10-2blocks player. I would rather have Jermaine on defense as well.


   
when?


----------



## cima (Nov 6, 2003)

*Jermaine O'Neal or Pau Gasol?*

Dunno if this debate has been done before, but it crossed my mind and I think it'll be very interesting to see what people have to say. Who would you build your team around, Pau or JO? Both are All-Star PFs and a notch or two below the superstar level.


----------



## frank9007 (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: Jermaine O'Neal or Pau Gasol?*

A healthy JO without hesitation.


----------



## STUCKEY! (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: Jermaine O'Neal or Pau Gasol?*

Pau Gasol


----------



## clips_r_teh_wieners (Nov 4, 2005)

*Re: Jermaine O'Neal or Pau Gasol?*

this depends. are we talking about the players heading into next season or in their prime? cuz then my answers would be different.

JO in his healthy prime, but pau for next season no doubt


----------



## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

*Re: Jermaine O'Neal or Pau Gasol?*

I've always wanted a big man that likes to avoid contact by shooting fade aways. 

Gasol 10 times out of 10


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Jermaine O'Neal or Pau Gasol?*

Gasol, Gasol, Gasol.

This was already laid to rest about a year ago.


----------



## Quis (Jul 7, 2006)

*Re: Jermaine O'Neal or Pau Gasol?*

O'Neal, no questions asked. He's got everything on Gasol except passing, and I don't consider passing as a big priority for big men. Scoring, rebounding, defense, winning attitude, etc. all heavily in favor of O'Neal.

*Factoid of the Day:* Pau Gasol has won the same number of playoff games as everyone reading this. *0*.


----------



## Quis (Jul 7, 2006)

*Re: Jermaine O'Neal or Pau Gasol?*

One of the big issues here is, you're comparing a guys best year (Gasol) vs a guy coming of his worst year in probably 5 seasons (O'Neal). That right there will influence voters to the point the entire poll is useless.

Gasol had a great year. I applaud him. But regardless, he's still a terrible rebounder, only a so-so defender, and he's never proven himself to be a team leader or a winner. Now some could say a single player can't will his team to victory alone, but Spain's terrible performances in various international tournaments confirm to me that Gasol just isn't a winner.

O'Neal on the other hand, has consistently put up better production despite playing signifigantly less minutes on a deeper team in Indiana. If O'Neal were to play 39+ mpg like Gasol, he'd be putting up 24/11/3 blocks on a yearly basis and this thread would be non-existent because it would be so obvious the answer. Unfortuantely he only plays around 35 mpg and has to settle for 21/10/2, which equals Gasol's best season ever.

I can't see how any non-biased, non-Grizzlies fans, non-Euro's can honestly say Gasol. That is unless you consider passing a more important quality than rebounding and defending to a big man.


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: Jermaine O'Neal or Pau Gasol?*



Quis said:


> One of the big issues here is, you're comparing a guys best year (Gasol) vs a guy coming of his worst year in probably 5 seasons (O'Neal). That right there will influence voters to the point the entire poll is useless.
> 
> Gasol had a great year. I applaud him. But regardless, he's still a terrible rebounder, only a so-so defender, and he's never proven himself to be a team leader or a winner. Now some could say a single player can't will his team to victory alone, but Spain's terrible performances in various international tournaments confirm to me that Gasol just isn't a winner.
> 
> ...


False.

JO has played 37 minutes and his numbers were 20/10 and 19/10 and had NEVER shot .500 from the feild in his entire career. Also, he is not that much better of a rebounder than Gasol. It is not like the KG thing where KG is a vastly superior rebounder and effecient. JO is a sightly better rebounder and tons more ineffiecient. JO also has ALWAYS been supported by a better supporting cast and arguably has not even been the best or most important person on his team until last seasons debacle. Pau Gasol, on the other hand , has ALWAYS been the best player on his team and has never had the luxury of playing with veteran All Stars.

Gasol>JO and has been for awhile.


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: Jermaine O'Neal or Pau Gasol?*



Quis said:


> O'Neal, no questions asked. He's got everything on Gasol except passing, and I don't consider passing as a big priority for big men. Scoring, rebounding, defense, winning attitude, etc. all heavily in favor of O'Neal.
> 
> *Factoid of the Day:* Pau Gasol has won the same number of playoff games as everyone reading this. *0*.


*Factoid of the Day:* Jermaine O'Neal has shot .500 from the field the same number of times as everyone reading this. *0*.


----------



## Quis (Jul 7, 2006)

*Re: Jermaine O'Neal or Pau Gasol?*

Here is their respective production for the past four seasons. O'Neal is on the top; Gasol on the bottom.










It's fairly close, neither man with a huge advantage over either in anything, but overall O'Neal provides more game changing ability. He better at both ends of the court than Gasol, and to top it off he's a signifigantly better rebounder and a much bigger winner. Gasol's advantages in assists per game and field goal percentage just aren't enough.

If I were to rate them NBA Live-style, it'd be like this:










Anyone who votes for Gasol is wrong. That's not an opinion, that's a fact, as my post has just proven.


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: Jermaine O'Neal or Pau Gasol?*



Quis said:


> Here is their respective production for the past four seasons. O'Neal is on the top; Gasol on the bottom.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You do understand that they are not the same age right?

Compare their stats at similar ages...

JO on top again










...and that does not even include JO's injury years. I won't even round Pau's numbers down like you did  or include Portland's playoff wins...lol. :clap:


----------



## Banjoriddim (Aug 14, 2004)

I don't watch Pau mutch in NBA but in his NT he is true leader the one that fires them up and takes responsibility also he is true post player as Pacers fan I must say JO has everithing to be better in NBA standards but he just don't show up he is soft, doesn't box out shoots jumpers... but he has skills for so much more I would take Pau over him (for long time but I am bit of Pau homer).


----------



## eaglewu (Feb 21, 2005)

Gasol likes a man, but JO ...
So easily Gasol


----------



## Quis (Jul 7, 2006)

*Re: Jermaine O'Neal or Pau Gasol?*



MemphisX said:


> You do understand that they are not the same age right?
> 
> Compare their stats at similar ages...
> 
> ...


The age thing isn't even worth menitoning. It's less than 2 years, and you could even make the case Gasol's best year was his second year, and O'Neals best year was 4 seasons ago. So thats just plain dumb. Also nice of you to include O'Neal's 1st season in Indiana, a season where he was still an unknown and was maybe 4th option tops. That weighs his scoring way down, without that "rookie" year its more like 20/10.4/2.4 blocks which is still better than anything Gasol's ever done. That is unless you consider assists more crucial to a big mans game than shot blocking and rebounding :gbanana:


----------



## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

*Re: Jermaine O'Neal or Pau Gasol?*



Quis said:


> The age thing isn't even worth menitoning. It's less than 2 years, and you could even make the case Gasol's best year was his second year, and O'Neals best year was 4 seasons ago. So thats just plain dumb. Also nice of you to include O'Neal's 1st season in Indiana, a season where he was still an unknown and was maybe 4th option tops. That weighs his scoring way down, without that "rookie" year its more like 20/10.4/2.4 blocks which is still better than anything Gasol's ever done. That is unless you consider assists more crucial to a big mans game than shot blocking and rebounding :gbanana:


When did the debate become who has the prettier stats? There is more to the game than PPG, RPG & BPG. You know, like being clutch via data from 82games.com

Clutch FT's - While Gasol's FT% dips slightly (-.020) in clutch time, JON's takes a huge hit (-.198)

Game Winning Shot - Gasol hit 6 of his 12 game winning shots and JON hit 2 of 14.


----------



## ToddMacCulloch11 (May 31, 2003)

*Re: Jermaine O'Neal or Pau Gasol?*



Quis said:


> O'Neal, no questions asked. He's got everything on Gasol except passing, and I don't consider passing as a big priority for big men. Scoring, rebounding, defense, *winning attitude*, etc. all heavily in favor of O'Neal.
> 
> *Factoid of the Day:* Pau Gasol has won the same number of playoff games as everyone reading this. *0*.


I'd use playoff success as a major factor if the Pacers had won anything, but they haven't. And the Grizzlies have played in the much stronger conference in this time period, and more often then not duing that time, JO had a better team around him them Pau did.

Also, is winning attitude what they call being a cry baby and complaining constantly during and after the few games you play a year now?


----------



## Quis (Jul 7, 2006)

*Re: Jermaine O'Neal or Pau Gasol?*



cpawfan said:


> When did the debate become who has the prettier stats?


Which is immediatly followed by you listing stats....... :shy: 



cpawfan said:


> There is more to the game than PPG, RPG & BPG. You know, like being clutch via data from 82games.com
> 
> Clutch FT's - While Gasol's FT% dips slightly (-.020) in clutch time, JON's takes a huge hit (-.198)
> 
> Game Winning Shot - Gasol hit 6 of his 12 game winning shots and JON hit 2 of 14.


Game Winning Shots...Steve Francis 8-20 (.400).......Steve Nash 1-15 (.067)........"Mr. Big Shot" Chauncey Billups 5-26 (.192)

Using your logic, Steve Francis is better than the back-2-back MVP and Mr. Big Shot. Brilliant.

From everything I've seen, both from watching the games and researching the numbers, O'Neal's a better scorer, rebounder, defender, and a bigger winner. In my book, that equals better player.


----------



## Quis (Jul 7, 2006)

*Re: Jermaine O'Neal or Pau Gasol?*



ToddMacCulloch11 said:


> I'd use playoff success as a major factor if the Pacers had won anything, but they haven't. And the Grizzlies have played in the much stronger conference in this time period, and more often then not duing that time, JO had a better team around him them Pau did.


That may be an acceptable excuse for not winning a playoff series, but a truly great player would atleast lead his team to a single victory. O'Neal single handedly rallied his banged up Pacers team to a game 3 victory over the Nets this past postseason. Thats something you'll never see Pau Gasol do. 8th seeds have won games all throughout the history of the NBA playoffs, against far better teams than the teams the Grizzlies have faced, that's no excuse. He's just not good enough. He's a stat padder.



ToddMacCulloch11 said:


> Also, is winning attitude what they call being a cry baby and complaining constantly during and after the few games you play a year now?


O'Neal's had two serious injuries in his time in Indy. The first was late in 2005 when Shaq landed on him during a game, the other this past season when Francisco Elson nearly ripped his arm out of socket while going for a rebound. Thats not called being injury prone, thats called being unlucky. Injury prone players are the pussies who go down for weeks at a time when they land on their ankle wrong (Vince Carter) or don't take care of their bodies (Shaq).


----------



## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

*Re: Jermaine O'Neal or Pau Gasol?*



Quis said:


> Which is immediatly followed by you listing stats....... :shy:


Different stats. You keep wanting to go back to the "pretty" stats.



> Game Winning Shots...Steve Francis 8-20 (.400).......Steve Nash 1-15 (.067)........"Mr. Big Shot" Chauncey Billups 5-26 (.192)
> 
> Using your logic, Steve Francis is better than the back-2-back MVP and Mr. Big Shot. Brilliant.


You obviously didn't understand. Nowhere did I say Pau was better just because of this.



> From everything I've seen, both from watching the games and researching the numbers, O'Neal's a better scorer, rebounder, defender, and a bigger winner. In my book, that equals better player.


JON isn't a better scorer. PER & shooting percentages are in Gasol's favor across the board. JON simply just takes more shots. Also, Gasol is just as good, if not better an offensive rebounder.

If JON were such a winner, then why do his stats go down in the playoffs from the regular season?


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Jermaine O'Neal or Pau Gasol?*



Quis said:


> O'Neal, no questions asked. He's got everything on Gasol except passing, and I don't consider passing as a big priority for big men. Scoring, rebounding, defense, winning attitude, etc. all heavily in favor of O'Neal.
> 
> *Factoid of the Day:* Pau Gasol has won the same number of playoff games as everyone reading this. *0*.


Pretty much with this. Gasol finally had one season where he wasn't a softy and everyone wants to make him Karl Malone . It's good that he's showing his potential, but JO's been at least on his level for 3-4 years. JO.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: *Jermaine O'neal or Paul Gasol* POLL*



Rawse said:


> Just waive a Pistons jersey at him, and then watch him go *2-11*.


Oh hey, what did Jermaine O'Neal shoot last night? Anyone have a box score handy? I don't think Indiana was playing Detroit though, so nevermind. 

Also, while we're on the subject, didn't Gasol put up like 30 points? Who would give up 30 points to freakin' softy-boy Pau Gasol...?


----------



## Jizzy (Aug 24, 2005)

neither is gonna get you far, but I'd probably take Pau because he is less injury prone.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Rawse, I thought you were better than bumping something like this after one has a good game and the other has a bad night. 

Right now it's about a wash because they're both disinterested and on the verge of being moved...talk to me once they both have full motivation again.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

_Dre_ said:


> Rawse, I thought you were better than bumping something like this after one has a good game and the other has a bad night.


I'm not. I'm not at all.



> Right now it's about a wash because they're both disinterested and on the verge of being moved...talk to me once they both have full motivation again.


About a wash?! Come on now.

Jermaine's issue isn't motivation. It's that he's breaking down quickly from a grab bag of injuries, just as I said he would, and is content to lazily float around the perimeter. Partially because he's scared of getting injured yet again and partially because he's an idiot and has played that way for years.

He's _still_ jump shooting 71 percent of the time (and shooting just *35.4 eFG*%). Egads. That's just bonehead basketball from a bonehead basketball player.


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Rawse said:


> I'm not. I'm not at all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You do know JO's 29, and in his 11th year while Pau is entering his athletic peak at 27? I don't know why you're so proud to be right in this instance....yeah, at the time, O'neal was closer to his prime period of play, and I thought he was still better than Gasol. Now, not so much. He's been banged up and he's lost all motivation, playing on a bleh team in Indiana. I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because he hasn't had prolonged health or a decent team to play with in two and a half years, but hey, bump this next year, and if things are going the same way for O'neal, I'll admit Gasol's now the better player. 

I don't think this is the most fair comparision anymore anyway, compare him to Boozer or Stoudamire, someone closer to his experience level.


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Bump. 

Over a decade later, Pau Gasol is a lock for the Hall of Fame. 6x All-Star. 4x All-NBA. 2x NBA champion. Scored 7,000+ more points in his career than Jermaine O'Neal, who continued getting injured and became an afterthought shortly after the previous last post in this thread.

Clear victory for me. Shoutout to Pacerfan23.


----------



## penak (Mar 9, 2019)

J.O. is better at everything


----------



## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

#ShutUp Penak.


----------



## BalllikeMike (Nov 16, 2019)

This Guy is the. Real MVP
See
⬇⬇⬇⬇




__





Loan2Host







ckk.ai


----------

