# The Celtics Get No Respect



## Big John

In his article listing the best 5 teams in the East, Peter May of the Globe omits the Celtics. His top 5 (in order): New Jersey, Detroit, New Orleans, Indiana and Orlando.


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## MJG

He gets no argument from me. What makes you believe the Celtics are better than any of them? I think they'll finish at either 6th (behind those teams) or 7th (behind Philly).


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## goNBAjayhawks

I personally think they can be way up there, but as long as their in the playoffs i dont care where they finish, we are still a step away at least so the lower the pick in the draft the better, if we have the 15th pick next year, more power to us, and plus if we are the 3 or the 8 or somewhere inbetween, we are the same team and will still make a playoff run. Plus w/ pierce resting, "Fear the Truth.


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## bigbabyjesus

The Celtics won't be top 5 in the East, as good as Pierce and Antoine can be, they need an inside presence, so they can rise up to the best of the East.

Almost all of those teams that were mentioned in the top 5 have either acquired some big names-- New Jersey got Alonzo, Orlando got Juwan Howard, and then theres Detroit, who has a stacked bench, with young/veteran talent. New Orleans has probably the best starting lineup in the East, when healthy. Indiana, with Brad Miller gone, can push O'Neal to center, and have the lineup of Tinsley-Artest-Bender-Harrington-O'Neal, which is probably one of the youngest and athletic frontcourts around.


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## cafeteriabananas

I believe the Celtics are at the very least the 5th best team in the East. They proved they are better than Indiana in the playoffs, and Orlando has no real inside presence to speak of either.


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## goNBAjayhawks

> Originally posted by <b>hellbot</b>!
> The Celtics won't be top 5 in the East, as good as Pierce and Antoine can be, they need an inside presence, so they can rise up to the best of the East.
> 
> Almost all of those teams that were mentioned in the top 5 have either acquired some big names-- New Jersey got Alonzo, Orlando got Juwan Howard, and then theres Detroit, who has a stacked bench, with young/veteran talent. New Orleans has probably the best starting lineup in the East, when healthy. Indiana, with Brad Miller gone, can push O'Neal to center, and have the lineup of Tinsley-Artest-Bender-Harrington-O'Neal, which is probably one of the youngest and athletic frontcourts around.


No they want to keep Oneal at PF, i guess, thats why they wanted Pollard, they could have got a PF or a PG or somethin,With Pollard in it will give oneal a lot of points and a lot of shots which is what they want.


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## mrsister

The Celtics have a lot of X factors that could push them to the top. In the front court, they have Baker, Hunter, and Perkins. Who knows if one or more of them could give them the inside presence they need. In the back court they have Banks and James. If Banks can turn them into a running team, they could be several times better. Then there's Jones and Brown who may be able to give them that extra spark. I think because nobody has seen the new roster play together that they can't really rank them too high. There's a lot of ifs. Based on potential, the new Celtics could be a surprise team. But if not, they'll probably still be able to finish where they were last year and cause headaches for everyone in the playoffs except New Jersey.


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> The Celtics have a lot of X factors that could push them to the top. In the front court, they have Baker, Hunter, and Perkins. Who knows if one or more of them could give them the inside presence they need. In the back court they have Banks and James. If Banks can turn them into a running team, they could be several times better. Then there's Jones and Brown who may be able to give them that extra spark. I think because nobody has seen the new roster play together that they can't really rank them too high. There's a lot of ifs. Based on potential, the new Celtics could be a surprise team. But if not, they'll probably still be able to finish where they were last year and cause headaches for everyone in the playoffs except New Jersey.


Baker, Hunter and Perkins count as an inside presence, but Gooden and Howard don't?:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I see the logic in this one.... 

Boston was the 6th seed last year, and did not significantly improve. Banks is a rookie, and will help in the future, but this year will be as good, or maybe a little better than Delk/Bremer/S.Williams last year. They get more than enough respect.


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## sweet #17

Alright so maybe I'm alittle biased but this is how I see the top of the east.

1) Nets - no doubt, the best got better this offseason :upset: 

2) Pistons - while I think the c's will continue to torture this team, especially if we meet in the playoffs. They do tend to have a good reg. season record though.

3) Celtics - same core with new/better complementary players
I think we improved at sf and pg without losing much. 

4) Hornets - when was the last time they had a relatively injury free season? I see no reason why they will this year. I left high on this list because maybe the God's of Bball will smile on them this year but I'd bet against it. Plus they have the worst coach in NBA history....

5) Pacers - come on, they lost one of the best, if not overated, centers in the east and for some reason they're going to be better? really, I give Bird two months before he cans Isaih and the players won't be able to adjust to Carlisle in time. They still will be good enough to make the playoffs.

6) Magic - same team minus Armstrong but plus Howard. Am I alone in believing he is and always has been one of the most overratted and overpaid pfs in the league? I seem to remember Toine burning him every time they meet. If I'm mistaken on this one let me know.I'm sure someone will. Still this seems like the same team that barely made the playoffs last year. 

7) Sixers - AI + Glenn Rob. + new coach = disaster
But AI will still carry his team to the playoffs even if not past the first round.

8) Some random team will turn it on after the all-star break, maybe the bulls?

Go ahead and spam away I'm sure I forgot some new addition to a team but this is how I see the season going.


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## HKF

We need to stop underrating Paul Pierce and Antoine Walker, because any Orlando fans should know that T-Mac can't beat those guys even with Juwan Howard IMO. I still feel that Banks and Jumaine Jones will make the Celtics extremely difficult to beat especially at the Fleet. 

If I was the Celtics organization I would use the lack of respect to help motivate the team this season. I would say:

"See your own hometown paper, doesn't even think you are any good." 

I bet you they respond well to that and come out with a top 4 seed.

And people can say the East sucks, but I don't think so, I think all the teams are competitive with each other and that is what I want to watch, not 5 great teams and everyone else.


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## aquaitious

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> 
> 
> Baker, Hunter and Perkins count as an inside presence, but Gooden and Howard don't?:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I see the logic in this one....


He never said that Gooden and Howard are nor aren't a inside presence....



> They get more than enough respect.


We get MORE THEN ENOUGHT RESPECT? All right, belive me, the Celtics WILL finish in front of the Magic. And they will also go further then the Magic, the Pacers, Hornets, and the Pistons. The only team that will give us trouble is NJ, every other team in the east can't win vs us in a best of 7 games series.


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## Big John

I think Sweet #17 has it about right. The Celtics have improved significantly in the off season assuming that Walker and Battie are healthy and Kedrick Brown stays healthy. 

1. Even though Banks has some rough edges, the Banks/James combo at point guard will be superior to the Delk/Bremer combo. At least Banks can bring the ball up against pressure. Delk can move to his natural position at sg.

2. Jumaine Jones and Brandon Hunter will help in the frontcourt, and the Celtics will have Blount for the entire year. Jones can play sg also, so they can always go big at that position.

3. I expect nothing from Baker or Perkins. Anything those guys contribute would be gravy. But even without Baker or Perkins, Celtics now go 9-10 players deep instead of just 7 players. They have the personnel to wear other teams down and plenty of fouls to give. They should therefore be an improved 4th quarter team.

As others have noted, Detroit could have a better regular season record than the Celtics, but I do not believe that Detroit can beat either NJ or Boston in a 7 game playoff series. Uncle Cliffie isn't getting any younger and Jon Barry is gone. They still rely on Chuckie Atkins as their backup pg. If Billups is not 100% they will have trouble beating anyone.

New Orleans has the same team returning but not the same coach and Indiana got worse, not better, in the offseason. Unfortunately for them, the Pacers do have the same coach returning. Orlando has the same team minus Darrell Armstrong plus DuJuan Howard. Reece Gaines did not play well in the Summer, so pg is a serious question for them-- not to mention the fact that Grant Hill is gone for the season. So I don't see how anyone could pick all three of those teams ahead of the Celtics.

I'm not sure where to put the Sixers. I really dislike Glenn Robinson as a player, but they also got Marc Jackson in that deal, and he is a load. Also John Salmons had a terrific Summer, so they could be a dangerous team, particularly on nights when Derrick Coleman shows up.


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## agoo

If Peter May were talking about the regular season standings, I wouldn't really argue with him. The only questions there are New Orleans with Tim Floyd (statistically the WORST coach in the HISTORY of the NBA) and Orlando. Lets not overrated Orlando. They have a rookie PG who is probably the worst of those drafted in the first round and their four best players play two positions (Howard and Gooden are PFs and TMac and Giricek are SGs). 

In the playoffs, New Jersey is the only team that scares me in a series vs. the Celtics. Indiana, until further notice, will have Indiana at the helm, which means they will continue to not make it out of the first round. Everyone talks about how much Detroit improved, but they really didn't unless you count the progression of Tayshaun Prince and Mehmet Okur as their improvements. Sure they drafted Darko and Delfino, but Delfino won't play in the states next year and Darko is basically at the same point as a high school kid. Orlando improved by picking up Juwan Howard, which means that, as I said earlier, their four top guys play two positions between them and they'll continue to be weak at center and replacing Armstrong with Lue gives him a major hole at PG. New Jersey improved, but when you consider that Zo Mourning missed all of last season and only played 13 games three seasons ago because of a kidney ailment he still has, relying on him is a gamble. However, New Jersey is the only team that could beat the Celtics in the playoffs last year, so even if Zo doesn't play, no change may well be good enough.

Looking at the Celtics, they also did improve. Banks and James should prove to be a better PG duo than Delk and Bremer were last season. With Kedrick behind Pierce, O'Brien may be inclined to give Paul more than 9 minutes of rest and keep him fresh. Jones adds depth to the already respectable SF position. Antoine is only going to improve with the fat he's shedding. Baker has no where to go but up. Blount should continue to improve and personally, I think he'll become the starter at some point this season.

Taking a look at these teams that May puts ahead of the Celtics, the Nets improve, but only if Mourning plays, which will remain a question. Detroit didn't really imporve much at all because Delfino won't be in the continent, let alone Detroit next season, and Darko is essentially, a high schooler. Indiana got worse by losing Brad Miller, who killed the Celtics regularly. New Orleans improved on paper by adding Armstrong and retaining Brown, but they have Floyd for a coach now which might be the biggest hit any team took in east. Orlando improved, but will have one of their top four out of position and another on the bench and their point guard situation is really, really weak. Meanwhile, the Celtics made actual improvements on the bench and have something resembling depth now. 

I think this list comes down to one thing. Peter May hates the Celtics and likely will continue to hate them until Walker is out of town. Hopefully that will be in 12-13 seasons when the captain retires.


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## Big John

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> I think this list comes down to one thing. Peter May hates the Celtics and likely will continue to hate them until Walker is out of town.


Agree 100%.


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## The MAgiC

Come on, you Celtics fans always overrate the Celtics while underrating the other teams, but if you're gonna do that, AT LEAST know what you're talking about!



> 6) Magic - same team minus Armstrong but plus Howard. Am I alone in believing he is and always has been one of the most overratted and overpaid pfs in the league? I seem to remember Toine burning him every time they meet. If I'm mistaken on this one let me know.I'm sure someone will. Still this seems like the same team that barely made the playoffs last year.


Uhh... same team? Let's see, they added Lue, Gaines, Bogans, Pachulia, Howard, and will have Gooden and Giricek from the beggining of the year (do we have to remind you that the Magic had the 2nd best record in the East with them?). Not exactly the same team. Get your facts straight, then maybe you overrating your team wouldn't be AS bad. The Magic, along with at least 4 other teams, will be better than the Celtics this year. A couple Celtic fans with high hopes won't change that.

Oh yeah, and Gaines is better than Banks...


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## MJG

I was talking about regular season standings in my post. I wouldn't feel bad at all picking the Celtics over the Pacers, Hornets, and Magic in a playoff series.


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## Big John

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> Come on, you Celtics fans always overrate the Celtics while underrating the other teams, but if you're gonna do that, AT LEAST know what you're talking about!
> 
> 
> 
> Uhh... same team? Let's see, they added Lue, Gaines, Bogans, Pachulia, Howard, and will have Gooden and Giricek from the beggining of the year (do we have to remind you that the Magic had the 2nd best record in the East with them?). Not exactly the same team. Get your facts straight, then maybe you overrating your team wouldn't be AS bad. The Magic, along with at least 4 other teams, will be better than the Celtics this year. A couple Celtic fans with high hopes won't change that.
> 
> Oh yeah, and Gaines is better than Banks...


Wanna bet?

Orlando added Gaines and a couple of second round picks. I forgot about Lue, but he isn't as good as Armstrong. Otherwise its the same team plus Howard, and it's still a dog and pony show with only one pony.


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## mrsister

The Magic will always be in the hunt as long as they have McGrady. Sure, they could beat the Celtics, but the Celtics will not fear them. Pierce and Walker are a fearsome duo (second highest scoring in the league), and now they have a point guard who will get them the ball in the right spots. That could make a huge difference. If they don't have to create their own shots, they will take better shots and not expend as much energy. Remember, the Nets were one of the worst teams in the league until Kidd came along. The rest of the team was pretty much the same. I'm not saying Banks is on Kidd's level, but the presence of a playmaker is important. This is not to say that Banks will be that player. We have no idea until the season starts. But if he is that player, watch out. And don't say rookie point guards don't make a difference. Tell that to Tony Parker.


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## Richie Rich

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> 
> 
> Baker, Hunter and Perkins count as an inside presence, but Gooden and Howard don't?:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I see the logic in this one....
> 
> Boston was the 6th seed last year, and did not significantly improve. Banks is a rookie, and will help in the future, but this year will be as good, or maybe a little better than Delk/Bremer/S.Williams last year. They get more than enough respect.








Sorry, nobody mentioned Gooden nor Howard in the post you quoted, so don't post here if all you are going to do is create problems and bait.


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## Richie Rich

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> Come on, you Celtics fans always overrate the Celtics while underrating the other teams, but if you're gonna do that, AT LEAST know what you're talking about!
> 
> 
> 
> Uhh... same team? Let's see, they added Lue, Gaines, Bogans, Pachulia, Howard, and will have Gooden and Giricek from the beggining of the year (do we have to remind you that the Magic had the 2nd best record in the East with them?). Not exactly the same team. Get your facts straight, then maybe you overrating your team wouldn't be AS bad. The Magic, along with at least 4 other teams, will be better than the Celtics this year. A couple Celtic fans with high hopes won't change that.
> 
> Oh yeah, and Gaines is better than Banks...








Another biased Magic fan. Who comes into the Celtics forum to tell us how good his team is, what shall we do?(besides laugh @ him) BTW, your last comment, heh, where's your proof? Gaines played HORRIBLE so far, so if you are basing it on summer league you are wrong. When they get accustomed to the NBA, then make comments like that, until then, stay away from the Celtics forum w/ YOUR BIAS REMARKS.


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## Richie Rich

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> I was talking about regular season standings in my post. I wouldn't feel bad at all picking the Celtics over the Pacers, Hornets, and Magic in a playoff series.








:yes:


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## Big John

> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> The Magic will always be in the hunt as long as they have McGrady.


Yes, but they will never win the hunt until McGrady et. al. learn to play some defense.


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## Richie Rich

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes, but they will never win the hunt until McGrady et. al. learn to play some defense.








:Awaits all the Magic fans to return out-raged and continue 2 boast about their team in our forum:


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## RP McMurphy

I'd take Marcus Banks over Reece Gaines.


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## Captain Obvious

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> I'd take Marcus Banks over Reece Gaines.


I think the Celtics did well to acquire Banks and the Magic are probably better off with Gaines. The Magic needed a point guard with size to deal with the taller points in the league and the Celtics needed more of a pure point like Banks to run their team. Right now it's too early to say who's better but I think each guy fits in with their respective team well. 

As far as which team is better, it's too early to tell. How much will Gooden and Giricek help the Magic's record once they play a whole season? Which rookie point guard is more ready for the NBA? How will each team's additions affect team chemistry? Which team can stay healthier? Once these questions are answered we'll know who's better.

Also, I believe hobo wasn't baiting, he was referring to this quote made earlier in the thread.



> Originally posted by <b>cafeteriabananas</b>!
> Orlando has no real inside presence to speak of either.


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## agoo

I was thinking about this whole thing with the Magic and the Celtics and I got to wondering, what actually makes the Magic fans think that they're better than the Celtics? They don't beat the Celtics on the court (6-3 record over the last two seasons). Personally, I don't think they beat the Celts on paper either.

*CENTER*
Tony Battie/Mark Blount vs. Andrew DeClerq/Stephen Hunter

Advantage Celtics whether it be the starter or the backup. 

*POWERFORWARD*
Antoine Walker/Vin Baker vs. Juwan Howard/Shawn Kemp

Advantage Celtics again. Sure, Baker is a risk and cannot be depended upon for anything, but isn't Kemp just about the same? Antoine, despite all those knocks against him, is still an all-star, which is more than I'll ever be able to say about Juwan Howard.

*SMALLFORWARD*
Jumaine Jones/Eric Williams vs. Drew Gooden/Pat Garrity

Advantage Magic. This isn't really a major advantage. Remember, Gooden became available because he couldn't play smallforward in the west. The three position is better in the east than it is in the west. Gooden should be able to put up 15 and 8 though he is out of position. I'm sure some Magic backers will say Gooden can get 20 and 10, but I'd like to let you all know that only 3 guys did that last year and only 6 got double digit rebounds per game. Off the bench, I'd take Williams over Garrity, which makes it less of a Magic advantage. Throw the fact that Walter McCarty is third string, according to me anyway, and the advantage is pretty much nonexistent, but I'm sticking with the starter and his top backup. 

*SHOOTING GUARD*
Paul Pierce/Kedrick Brown vs. Tracy McGrady/Gordan Giricek

Advantage Magic, but its much closer to push than you may think. I have a feeling Brown might have a breakout year and could challenge for the starting SF position, which would move Jumaine down to back up Pierce. The gulf between McGrady and Pierce is just about nonexistent, but just to save myself the argument, I'm giving it to the Magic. Also, Giricek should be a starter in this league. However, due to the signing of Howard, who plays the same position as the Magic's second best player but will command starting minutes anyway, Giricek is forced to back up McGrady.

*POINT GUARD*
Marcus Banks/Tony Delk vs. Tyronn Lue/Reece Gaines

Advantage Celtics. Major advantage here. Its been said that Gaines is a better fit for the Celtics because they need someone to guard the taller points in the league, like who? The hulking giant 6-4 Jason Kidd? Perhaps the gigantic 6-3 Chauncey Billups? Point guards don't need to be 6-6. If they are and they're good, its a nice luxury. That said, Gaines is no luxury item. Furthermore, you only need a tall PG if you have a short SG (like Iverson for example). McGrady, at 6-8, is not a short SG. Back to Magic-Celtics comparison. I have a feeling that if Mike James were in Orlando, he'd be battling Lue for a starting position and he's the third PG on the Celtics.

So on paper, the Celtics have major advantages and C and PG, and a fairly sizeable one at PF. Meanwhile, the Magic have the advantage in near pushes at SG and SF. Looking at it that way, I might have to edit my earlier statement that Orlando might have a better regular season than the Celtics. Now that I've compared both rosters, I don't think they will.


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## Big John

> Originally posted by <b>MagicStick</b>!
> 
> 
> I think the Celtics did well to acquire Banks and the Magic are probably better off with Gaines.


I don't think so. The Sonics and the Magic would each have taken Banks had the Celtics not made that draft day trade with Memphis.

Gaines had serious turnover issues in Summer league play. Not good. Banks also had too many turnovers, but not nearly so many as Gaines.

Banks has alot to learn but he is super quick. Iverson quick. No defender can keep Banks out of the paint. He may not always know what to do with the ball when he gets there, but that can be learned. Gaines could become a nice NBA player, but he doesn't have nearly the explosiveness of Banks.


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## Richie Rich

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't think so. The Sonics and the Magic would each have taken Banks had the Celtics not made that draft day trade with Memphis.
> 
> Gaines had serious turnover issues in Summer league play. Not good. Banks also had too many turnovers, but not nearly so many as Gaines.
> 
> Banks has alot to learn but he is super quick. Iverson quick. No defender can keep Banks out of the paint. He may not always know what to do with the ball when he gets there, but that can be learned. Gaines could become a nice NBA player, but he doesn't have nearly the explosiveness of Banks.








I agree with Big John.


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## mrsister

How did this turn into a Magic vs. Celtics thread anyway? I think all we wanted to say is that Celtics are in the top five and have the potential to be better than any team but the Nets. What the Celtics have that some other teams don't is team chemistry. Four of the five starters have been together for years. Very few teams can claim that. They know and trust each other. Individually, they may not match up on paper with some other teams, but as a cohesive unit, they seem to gel. The Pacers were supposed to have the far superior talent, but they didn't have the chemistry (or the coaching) to beat the Celtics. A couples years ago, the Sixers were supposed to run over the Celtics. Then the Pistons. The Celtics even had a 2-1 lead in the series over the Nets, even though the Nets were better. Now, I think the Celtics are a better team than the past two years, so why is it a stretch to say they're top 5? I think they may not end up with a great regular season record, as they try to get all the new guys incorporated and change the offense, but if they all stay relatively healthy, I think they'll be a strong team by the end of the season. Of course, a lot can happen by then, so it's hard to make predictions.


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## Richie Rich

> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> How did this turn into a Magic vs. Celtics thread anyway? I think all we wanted to say is that Celtics are in the top five and have the potential to be better than any team but the Nets. What the Celtics have that some other teams don't is team chemistry. Four of the five starters have been together for years. Very few teams can claim that. They know and trust each other. Individually, they may not match up on paper with some other teams, but as a cohesive unit, they seem to gel. The Pacers were supposed to have the far superior talent, but they didn't have the chemistry (or the coaching) to beat the Celtics. A couples years ago, the Sixers were supposed to run over the Celtics. Then the Pistons. The Celtics even had a 2-1 lead in the series over the Nets, even though the Nets were better. Now, I think the Celtics are a better team than the past two years, so why is it a stretch to say they're top 5? I think they may not end up with a great regular season record, as they try to get all the new guys incorporated and change the offense, but if they all stay relatively healthy, I think they'll be a strong team by the end of the season. Of course, a lot can happen by then, so it's hard to make predictions.








B/c biast Magic fans can't keep their nose out of our business.


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## StraylightRunner

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> I was thinking about this whole thing with the Magic and the Celtics and I got to wondering, what actually makes the Magic fans think that they're better than the Celtics? They don't beat the Celtics on the court (6-3 record over the last two seasons). Personally, I don't think they beat the Celts on paper either.
> 
> *CENTER*
> Tony Battie/Mark Blount vs. Andrew DeClerq/Stephen Hunter
> 
> Advantage Celtics whether it be the starter or the backup.
> 
> *POWERFORWARD*
> Antoine Walker/Vin Baker vs. Juwan Howard/Shawn Kemp
> 
> Advantage Celtics again. Sure, Baker is a risk and cannot be depended upon for anything, but isn't Kemp just about the same? Antoine, despite all those knocks against him, is still an all-star, which is more than I'll ever be able to say about Juwan Howard.
> 
> *SMALLFORWARD*
> Jumaine Jones/Eric Williams vs. Drew Gooden/Pat Garrity
> 
> Advantage Magic. This isn't really a major advantage. Remember, Gooden became available because he couldn't play smallforward in the west. The three position is better in the east than it is in the west. Gooden should be able to put up 15 and 8 though he is out of position. I'm sure some Magic backers will say Gooden can get 20 and 10, but I'd like to let you all know that only 3 guys did that last year and only 6 got double digit rebounds per game. Off the bench, I'd take Williams over Garrity, which makes it less of a Magic advantage. Throw the fact that Walter McCarty is third string, according to me anyway, and the advantage is pretty much nonexistent, but I'm sticking with the starter and his top backup.
> 
> *SHOOTING GUARD*
> Paul Pierce/Kedrick Brown vs. Tracy McGrady/Gordan Giricek
> 
> Advantage Magic, but its much closer to push than you may think. I have a feeling Brown might have a breakout year and could challenge for the starting SF position, which would move Jumaine down to back up Pierce. The gulf between McGrady and Pierce is just about nonexistent, but just to save myself the argument, I'm giving it to the Magic. Also, Giricek should be a starter in this league. However, due to the signing of Howard, who plays the same position as the Magic's second best player but will command starting minutes anyway, Giricek is forced to back up McGrady.
> 
> *POINT GUARD*
> Marcus Banks/Tony Delk vs. Tyronn Lue/Reece Gaines
> 
> Advantage Celtics. Major advantage here. Its been said that Gaines is a better fit for the Celtics because they need someone to guard the taller points in the league, like who? The hulking giant 6-4 Jason Kidd? Perhaps the gigantic 6-3 Chauncey Billups? Point guards don't need to be 6-6. If they are and they're good, its a nice luxury. That said, Gaines is no luxury item. Furthermore, you only need a tall PG if you have a short SG (like Iverson for example). McGrady, at 6-8, is not a short SG. Back to Magic-Celtics comparison. I have a feeling that if Mike James were in Orlando, he'd be battling Lue for a starting position and he's the third PG on the Celtics.
> 
> So on paper, the Celtics have major advantages and C and PG, and a fairly sizeable one at PF. Meanwhile, the Magic have the advantage in near pushes at SG and SF. Looking at it that way, I might have to edit my earlier statement that Orlando might have a better regular season than the Celtics. Now that I've compared both rosters, I don't think they will.


personally (i like both teams the same) i see waltuh being second string at the 3 over eric williams. also, how many times do the magic play cleveland? bron is 6-8. i know its just one example but still. and personally PG is not a MAJOR advantage. compare gaines to banks, very narrowly celtics adv and lue to delk. delk is good but he has a shootfirst mentality, so lue could feed t-mac, howard, and gooden the rock well. delk may not think first to pass to toine and pierce. agreed you really first think at SG the magic has a HUGE adv but your right its pretty close to a push.


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## The MAgiC

Meh... if you're going to compare by position, which is absolutely pointless, at least use the right depth chart.

C: Howard / Hunter
PF: Gooden / Declercq
SF: Giricek / Garrity
SG: T-Mac / Bogans
PG: Lue / Gaines

Kemp? What the hell? How can you compare teams when you don't even know who'se on them? 

I'm not going to argue who is better, since that's also pointless, but the reason I posted in the first place was because of the horrible overrating of the Celtics going on here. If you would admit they aren't top 5, we wouldn't have to tell it to you.


----------



## RP McMurphy

> Originally posted by <b>tnnsfly15</b>!
> personally (i like both teams the same) i see waltuh being second string at the 3 over eric williams. also, how many times do the magic play cleveland? bron is 6-8. i know its just one example but still. and personally PG is not a MAJOR advantage. compare gaines to banks, very narrowly celtics adv and lue to delk. delk is good but he has a shootfirst mentality, so lue could feed t-mac, howard, and gooden the rock well. delk may not think first to pass to toine and pierce. agreed you really first think at SG the magic has a HUGE adv but your right its pretty close to a push.


Agreed.

1. I expect Eric Williams to be dumped on Denver or Utah, or possibly Miami if Odom gets matched, so that the Celtics don't have to pay the luxury tax. Walter will be the backup SF by default.

2. I agree that Marcus Banks is not that much better than Reece Gaines at this point in time, I'd say this position is a push because both teams suck at it for now. I think we will see other players (not point guards) bringing the ball up the court a lot of times as these two rookies settle into their roles. The reason I'd take Banks over Gaines though is that I feel Banks has the potential to be really good in a few years and I just don't see Gaines being anything special in the long run.


----------



## theBirdman

I think these comparisons are pointless. Putting up players one by one and comparing them doesnt tell us anything! I feel that our biggest strenght is our TEAM not players as individuals. Many of you are underestimating the impact of team chemistry which in team sports is extremely important. This is also the reason why Celtics can beat any eastern team in a series (maybe with exception of NJ) although they maybe dont have the talent or individual quality like some other teams (but in the end we still have two allstars).

I feel that we have really gotten better this offseason as have the Magic. So it is hard to say who is going to finish ahead in the regular season and I really dont care, all I know is that we have the edge in the playoffs, because we have better team chemistry (Magic fans are underestimating the loss of Armstrong-his leadership, experience, positive attitude, his importance for the team chemistry), more experience, better bench players... And the TRUE quality of a team can only be measured by its success in the playoffs where teams are pushed to the limit...


----------



## Richie Rich

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> Meh... if you're going to compare by position, which is absolutely pointless, at least use the right depth chart.
> 
> C: Howard / Hunter
> PF: Gooden / Declercq
> SF: Giricek / Garrity
> SG: T-Mac / Bogans
> PG: Lue / Gaines
> 
> Kemp? What the hell? How can you compare teams when you don't even know who'se on them?
> 
> I'm not going to argue who is better, since that's also pointless, but the reason I posted in the first place was because of the horrible overrating of the Celtics going on here. If you would admit they aren't top 5, we wouldn't have to tell it to you.








Please enough is enough about this BS, if you are going to cause problems by continuously claiming we are not top 5, we are over-rated, etc. blah blah blah when we are NOT and have proven a lot over the past two years in the regular season and playoffs especially; This topic has been beaten to death, so stop bringing it up, we are sick of it and it always seems to be Magic fans, not all, but some; enough already.


----------



## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>Richie Rich</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, nobody mentioned Gooden nor Howard in the post you quoted, so don't post here if all you are going to do is create problems and bait.


I was referring to 2 different quotes, I am not creating problems, I'm stating two of you Celtics fans contradict each other.



> Originally posted by <b>cafeteriabananas</b>
> 
> I believe the Celtics are at the very least the 5th best team in the East. They proved they are better than Indiana in the playoffs, and Orlando has no real inside presence to speak of either.


Orlando has no Inside presence    



> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>
> 
> 
> The Celtics have a lot of X factors that could push them to the top. In the front court, they have Baker, Hunter, and Perkins. Who knows if one or more of them could give them the inside presence they need. In the back court they have Banks and James. If Banks can turn them into a running team, they could be several times better. Then there's Jones and Brown who may be able to give them that extra spark. I think because nobody has seen the new roster play together that they can't really rank them too high. There's a lot of ifs. Based on potential, the new Celtics could be a surprise team. But if not, they'll probably still be able to finish where they were last year and cause headaches for everyone in the playoffs except New Jersey.


So one post is saying Howard and Gooden dont count, but another post says Hunter Baker and Perkins count as an inside presence. This is what I was referring to, and wondering about.

And by the way, Orlando had the second best record in the East after they traded for Gooden and Giricek(like somebody mentioned). Now you add Howard, Lue, Gaines, Bogans, and Pachulia, and you take out Armstrong and this team gets a lot worse??? 
   
Don't see the logic. Can one of you Celtics fans help me out here?


----------



## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>Richie Rich</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :Awaits all the Magic fans to return out-raged and continue 2 boast about their team in our forum:


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 
What a freakin hypocrite. He *****es about baiting, and posts that!!!!


----------



## Captain Obvious

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> I was thinking about this whole thing with the Magic and the Celtics and I got to wondering, what actually makes the Magic fans think that they're better than the Celtics? They don't beat the Celtics on the court (6-3 record over the last two seasons). Personally, I don't think they beat the Celts on paper either.
> 
> *CENTER*
> Tony Battie/Mark Blount vs. Andrew DeClerq/Stephen Hunter
> 
> Advantage Celtics whether it be the starter or the backup.
> 
> *POWERFORWARD*
> Antoine Walker/Vin Baker vs. Juwan Howard/Shawn Kemp
> 
> Advantage Celtics again. Sure, Baker is a risk and cannot be depended upon for anything, but isn't Kemp just about the same? Antoine, despite all those knocks against him, is still an all-star, which is more than I'll ever be able to say about Juwan Howard.
> 
> *SMALLFORWARD*
> Jumaine Jones/Eric Williams vs. Drew Gooden/Pat Garrity
> 
> Advantage Magic. This isn't really a major advantage. Remember, Gooden became available because he couldn't play smallforward in the west. The three position is better in the east than it is in the west. Gooden should be able to put up 15 and 8 though he is out of position. I'm sure some Magic backers will say Gooden can get 20 and 10, but I'd like to let you all know that only 3 guys did that last year and only 6 got double digit rebounds per game. Off the bench, I'd take Williams over Garrity, which makes it less of a Magic advantage. Throw the fact that Walter McCarty is third string, according to me anyway, and the advantage is pretty much nonexistent, but I'm sticking with the starter and his top backup.
> 
> *SHOOTING GUARD*
> Paul Pierce/Kedrick Brown vs. Tracy McGrady/Gordan Giricek
> 
> Advantage Magic, but its much closer to push than you may think. I have a feeling Brown might have a breakout year and could challenge for the starting SF position, which would move Jumaine down to back up Pierce. The gulf between McGrady and Pierce is just about nonexistent, but just to save myself the argument, I'm giving it to the Magic. Also, Giricek should be a starter in this league. However, due to the signing of Howard, who plays the same position as the Magic's second best player but will command starting minutes anyway, Giricek is forced to back up McGrady.
> 
> *POINT GUARD*
> Marcus Banks/Tony Delk vs. Tyronn Lue/Reece Gaines
> 
> Advantage Celtics. Major advantage here. Its been said that Gaines is a better fit for the Celtics because they need someone to guard the taller points in the league, like who? The hulking giant 6-4 Jason Kidd? Perhaps the gigantic 6-3 Chauncey Billups? Point guards don't need to be 6-6. If they are and they're good, its a nice luxury. That said, Gaines is no luxury item. Furthermore, you only need a tall PG if you have a short SG (like Iverson for example). McGrady, at 6-8, is not a short SG. Back to Magic-Celtics comparison. I have a feeling that if Mike James were in Orlando, he'd be battling Lue for a starting position and he's the third PG on the Celtics.
> 
> So on paper, the Celtics have major advantages and C and PG, and a fairly sizeable one at PF. Meanwhile, the Magic have the advantage in near pushes at SG and SF. Looking at it that way, I might have to edit my earlier statement that Orlando might have a better regular season than the Celtics. Now that I've compared both rosters, I don't think they will.


Here's a Magic fan's version of this breakdown:

<b>Center</b>
Battie/Blount/Perkins vs. Howard/DeClerq/Hunter

Advantage Magic. Howard may be playing out of position but he played a lot of center in the west last year and he averaged 18 and 8. He's been good for those numbers his entire career, don't expect that to change. Battie will play well, but last year he had nagging knee problems and if he goes down, can Blount be productive in significant minutes? As far as the backups I give a small advantage to the Magic. DeClerq sucks but at least he hustles and he still got about 6 boards a game last year. When Hunter got time he blocked and/or changed a lot of shots. 

<b>Power Forward</b>
Walker/Baker vs. Gooden/Pachulia

Advantage Celtics. This matchup is a lot closer than it seems. Gooden will probably rebound better than Walker but score less and get less assists. The thing that makes this close are the backups. No, Pachulia isn't better than Baker but Pachulia won't be playing a lot. When Gooden is out Howard will be the one getting the majority of the power forward minutes, and Howard is significantly better than Baker.

<b>Small Forward</b>
Jones/Williams vs. Giricek/Garrity

Advatage Magic. Giricek is a better offensive player than Jones, and their defense isn't that far apart. Garrity will look better on defense guarding small forwards instead of power forwards and he will be able to score double figures off of kickouts from the post and T-Mac when he penetrates. Williams is a good backup, so this matchup is very close.

<b>Shooting Guard</b>
Pierce vs. T-Mac 

Advantage Magic. No point in putting the backups, they won't play a lot, so the difference between Brown and Bogans/Sasser is negligible. T-Mac is better than Pierce, that is the consensus but like agoo said it's not a huge gap. But it's not really close either.

<b>Point Guard</b>
Banks/Delk vs. Lue/Gaines

Advantage Push. Agoo it is important to have a taller point guard. I've watched Armstrong and Vaughn get abused by Cassell, Baron Davis, and Billups in the playoffs the last few years. Gaines and Banks I consider equal for now because they were picked around the same time and they haven't played a second of NBA ball yet. Delk is a better offensive player than Lue but Lue is the better defender and distributor.


----------



## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>MagicStick</b>!
> 
> 
> Here's a Magic fan's version of this breakdown:
> 
> <b>Center</b>
> Battie/Blount/Perkins vs. Howard/DeClerq/Hunter
> 
> Advantage Magic. Howard may be playing out of position but he played a lot of center in the west last year and he averaged 18 and 8. He's been good for those numbers his entire career, don't expect that to change. Battie will play well, but last year he had nagging knee problems and if he goes down, can Blount be productive in significant minutes? As far as the backups I give a small advantage to the Magic. DeClerq sucks but at least he hustles and he still got about 6 boards a game last year. When Hunter got time he blocked and/or changed a lot of shots.
> 
> <b>Power Forward</b>
> Walker/Baker vs. Gooden/Pachulia
> 
> Advantage Celtics. This matchup is a lot closer than it seems. Gooden will probably rebound better than Walker but score less and get less assists. The thing that makes this close are the backups. No, Pachulia isn't better than Baker but Pachulia won't be playing a lot. When Gooden is out Howard will be the one getting the majority of the power forward minutes, and Howard is significantly better than Baker.
> 
> <b>Small Forward</b>
> Jones/Williams vs. Giricek/Garrity
> 
> Advatage Magic. Giricek is a better offensive player than Jones, and their defense isn't that far apart. Garrity will look better on defense guarding small forwards instead of power forwards and he will be able to score double figures off of kickouts from the post and T-Mac when he penetrates. Williams is a good backup, so this matchup is very close.
> 
> <b>Shooting Guard</b>
> Pierce vs. T-Mac
> 
> Advantage Magic. No point in putting the backups, they won't play a lot, so the difference between Brown and Bogans/Sasser is negligible. T-Mac is better than Pierce, that is the consensus but like agoo said it's not a huge gap. But it's not really close either.
> 
> <b>Point Guard</b>
> Banks/Delk vs. Lue/Gaines
> 
> Advantage Push. Agoo it is important to have a taller point guard. I've watched Armstrong and Vaughn get abused by Cassell, Baron Davis, and Billups in the playoffs the last few years. Gaines and Banks I consider equal for now because they were picked around the same time and they haven't played a second of NBA ball yet. Delk is a better offensive player than Lue but Lue is the better defender and distributor.


Excellent, unbiased analysis. Agoo had Gooden playing SF, but that will not be the case, he is the power forward, period. Howard will play SF and Center, and PF ONLY when Gooden is out.


----------



## bigbabyjesus

Let's put it this way -- Celtics are a playoff team.

They may be 6th or 7th in the Eastern Conference this year, but they have proved they can get past the first round unlike Orlando and Indiana.

As for The Magic-Celtic comparisons, you can't compare teams on paper, its the chemistry the team has and how well they work together.

The only obstacle I see for the Celtics in the playoffs is New Jersey, Celtics are a playoff team, which is what you want from a team, to win when it really counts.


----------



## mrsister

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> 
> So one post is saying Howard and Gooden dont count, but another post says Hunter Baker and Perkins count as an inside presence. This is what I was referring to, and wondering about.


Uhhh.... if you actually read my post, that's not what I said. Here, I'll quote it for you again:



> In the front court, they have Baker, Hunter, and Perkins. Who knows if one or more of them could give them the inside presence they need.


See that "Who knows" part? That means I'm not sure if any of them can step up. I never said they would. I also never said I agreed that Howard and Gooden are not an inside presence, so it's not a contradiction. 

What I think separates most of the Celtics fans here and the Magic fans who post here is that the Celtics fans speculate and logically break down their arguments, while the Magic fans often state things matter of factly. Nobody really knows for sure which team will finish higher or go further in the playoffs, so why be so confident? If we're going on recent history alone, then the Celtics clearly have the advantage because the Magic have finished behind the Celtics and haven't made it out of the first round. But history is history, so everything else is an educated guess. We believe the Celtics are top five. We could be proven wrong. The original theme of this thread was that Peter May thinks so little of the Celtics and won't give them any respect, not that Magic fans are deluded. Stop taking support of the Celtics to mean disrespect of the Magic.


----------



## HKF

Here's how I see the Eastern Conference in 2003-04.

1. New Jersey
2. Detroit
-----------------------------------------------------------------
3. New Orleans (I hear Baron lost 20 lbs and is ready to go this year, if so NO could be anywhere from 3-8)
4. Boston
5. Orlando
6. Indiana (with Isiah as coach, I don't know what to expect)
7. Philadelphia
-----------------------------------------------------------------
8. Toronto/Chicago (If Vince gets help and he plays like a superstar, they make it over Chicago)


The teams in the middle tier could go in anyway and that is how they should be. Lat year the top seed was better than the 8th seed byt 8 games only. I expect it to be a race for HCA for 3-7 all the way down to the end. Which should make it extremely fun to watch the last month of the season.


----------



## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> 
> 
> Uhhh.... if you actually read my post, that's not what I said. Here, I'll quote it for you again:
> 
> 
> 
> See that "Who knows" part? That means I'm not sure if any of them can step up. I never said they would. I also never said I agreed that Howard and Gooden are not an inside presence, so it's not a contradiction.
> 
> What I think separates most of the Celtics fans here and the Magic fans who post here is that the Celtics fans speculate and logically break down their arguments, while the Magic fans often state things matter of factly. Nobody really knows for sure which team will finish higher or go further in the playoffs, so why be so confident? If we're going on recent history alone, then the Celtics clearly have the advantage because the Magic have finished behind the Celtics and haven't made it out of the first round. But history is history, so everything else is an educated guess. We believe the Celtics are top five. We could be proven wrong. The original theme of this thread was that Peter May thinks so little of the Celtics and won't give them any respect, not that Magic fans are deluded. Stop taking support of the Celtics to mean disrespect of the Magic.


I didn't take it like that, its just when the Magic were thrown into the discussion, I threw in my 2 Cents. And I still think, the Celtics are not top 5 team in the East, therefore I was stating that Peter May is correct in his article, and that the Celtics get all the respect they deserve.

Is this stating my opinion matter of factly??

"And by the way, Orlando had the second best record in the East after they traded for Gooden and Giricek(like somebody mentioned). Now you add Howard, Lue, Gaines, Bogans, and Pachulia, and you take out Armstrong and this team gets a lot worse??? "

That is a fact, they had the Second best record after their trade. How is this not a fair arguement? And you throw in the additions I mentioned, i dont know how you say this is not a fair arguement backed up by numbers. 

Yet whenever any good, quality arguement is made for the Magic, Richie Rich never has anything to say back except insults of our intelligence. Its riduculous.

Quotes like this....

"Please enough is enough about this BS, if you are going to cause problems by continuously claiming we are not top 5, we are over-rated, etc. blah blah blah when we are NOT and have proven a lot over the past two years in the regular season and playoffs especially; This topic has been beaten to death, so stop bringing it up, we are sick of it and it always seems to be Magic fans, not all, but some; enough already."



"Another biased Magic fan. Who comes into the Celtics forum to tell us how good his team is, what shall we do?(besides laugh @ him) BTW, your last comment, heh, where's your proof? Gaines played HORRIBLE so far, so if you are basing it on summer league you are wrong. When they get accustomed to the NBA, then make comments like that, until then, stay away from the Celtics forum w/ YOUR BIAS REMARKS."

Nothing informative there, just a "you're so biased, insult insult insult", with no backup. Saying Gaines played horrible in Summer League is not proof, nor does it determine how good he is.


----------



## sweet #17

So if the Magic were the best team in the east after their trade how come I didn't see them playing in the second round? 

Its the same team as last year in that its Tmac and Tmac, Tmac passes to Tmac for the assist on the dunk. Mark the date and time because I will tell you right no Howard does not add talent to this team. By the way you guys seem to have more confidence in your team than your star player does. 

Let's just agree to disagree and see where tmac (oops i mean the magic) end up at the end of the seaon.


----------



## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>sweet #17</b>!
> So if the Magic were the best team in the east after their trade how come I didn't see them playing in the second round?
> 
> Its the same team as last year in that its Tmac and Tmac, Tmac passes to Tmac for the assist on the dunk. Mark the date and time because I will tell you right no Howard does not add talent to this team. By the way you guys seem to have more confidence in your team than your star player does.
> 
> Let's just agree to disagree and see where tmac (oops i mean the magic) end up at the end of the seaon.




The Magic pushed the #1 seed in the East to 7 games. They have added talent to their roster this offseason, and will be better this year. Howard not adding talent? 18 and 8 playing int the west as an undersized Center doesnt count for anything i guess.:sigh: 

Yes he was the only option on the team, but the rebounds are legitimate comsidering he was banging with the big boys in the west, you have to give him credit for that.


----------



## sweet #17

Quote:
"The Magic pushed the #1 seed in the East to 7 games. They have added talent to their roster this offseason, and will be better this year. Howard not adding talent? 18 and 8 playing int the west as an undersized Center doesnt count for anything i guess. 

Yes he was the only option on the team, but the rebounds are legitimate comsidering he was banging with the big boys in the west, you have to give him credit for that."
***************************************
Yeah but did they win game seven? playing under pressure, some teams can some can't. Don't worry about it. 

Going back to howard however, his denver numbers don't impress me. on a team like that someone had to get rebounds. being the best of the worst doesn't impress me. he's always been overrated IMHO. but i could be wrong, he could be a great addition to your team and take you straight to the finals. we'll have to wait and see. good luck to you.


----------



## agoo

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> The Magic pushed the #1 seed in the East to 7 games. They have added talent to their roster this offseason, and will be better this year. Howard not adding talent? 18 and 8 playing int the west as an undersized Center doesnt count for anything i guess.:sigh:


Actually, Howard put up 18 and 8 as an adequately sized powerforward last year while Nene was at center. Good stats, but what was the point of signing a powerforward when you second best player is a powerforward?

Tyronn Lue is a huge hole at PG. Armstrong wasn't an all-star, but he's better than Lue. He'll be an issue all season.


----------



## Richie Rich

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> 
> 
> I didn't take it like that, its just when the Magic were thrown into the discussion, I threw in my 2 Cents. And I still think, the Celtics are not top 5 team in the East, therefore I was stating that Peter May is correct in his article, and that the Celtics get all the respect they deserve.
> 
> Is this stating my opinion matter of factly??
> 
> "And by the way, Orlando had the second best record in the East after they traded for Gooden and Giricek(like somebody mentioned). Now you add Howard, Lue, Gaines, Bogans, and Pachulia, and you take out Armstrong and this team gets a lot worse??? "
> 
> That is a fact, they had the Second best record after their trade. How is this not a fair arguement? And you throw in the additions I mentioned, i dont know how you say this is not a fair arguement backed up by numbers.
> 
> Yet whenever any good, quality arguement is made for the Magic, Richie Rich never has anything to say back except insults of our intelligence. Its riduculous.
> 
> Quotes like this....
> 
> "Please enough is enough about this BS, if you are going to cause problems by continuously claiming we are not top 5, we are over-rated, etc. blah blah blah when we are NOT and have proven a lot over the past two years in the regular season and playoffs especially; This topic has been beaten to death, so stop bringing it up, we are sick of it and it always seems to be Magic fans, not all, but some; enough already."
> 
> 
> 
> "Another biased Magic fan. Who comes into the Celtics forum to tell us how good his team is, what shall we do?(besides laugh @ him) BTW, your last comment, heh, where's your proof? Gaines played HORRIBLE so far, so if you are basing it on summer league you are wrong. When they get accustomed to the NBA, then make comments like that, until then, stay away from the Celtics forum w/ YOUR BIAS REMARKS."
> 
> Nothing informative there, just a "you're so biased, insult insult insult", with no backup. Saying Gaines played horrible in Summer League is not proof, nor does it determine how good he is.








Yes I have nothing intelligent to say. I'm sick of arguing with you. Itz a waste of time, and obviously I'm not the one who "insults" people and is "biased" b/c if I recall you are the one that got suspended for your BS. I try to back up everything I say, and if I do a bad job I try again. Sorry if it doesn't live up to your standards, but you give the Celtics no respect and that's liek giving me no respect and I won't tolerate it.


----------



## dsakilla

IMO, the Celtics will have to play consistently before they get significant respect. Antoine is up and down, Pierce will do nothing for 3 quarters and then score 25 in the 4th, and the Celtics make moves every year but none of them are good enough to make them better. Like getting Vin Baker, or Jumaine Jones. But if Banks and Perkins develop, the Celtics could be very dangerous in the future.


----------



## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>dsakilla</b>!
> IMO, the Celtics will have to play consistently before they get significant respect. Antoine is up and down, Pierce will do nothing for 3 quarters and then score 25 in the 4th, and the Celtics make moves every year but none of them are good enough to make them better. Like getting Vin Baker, or Jumaine Jones. But if Banks and Perkins develop, the Celtics could be very dangerous in the future.



:yes: :yes: :yes:


----------



## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>Richie Rich</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I have nothing intelligent to say. I'm sick of arguing with you. Itz a waste of time, and obviously I'm not the one who "insults" people and is "biased" b/c if I recall you are the one that got suspended for your BS. I try to back up everything I say, and if I do a bad job I try again. Sorry if it doesn't live up to your standards, but you give the Celtics no respect and that's liek giving me no respect and I won't tolerate it.



Actually, that had nothing to do with my suspension. By the way, how did you change your name from "Celtz in 04'" to "Richie Rich"??


And whenever I make a good point, and you have no response, you fall back on your "I'm tired of your crap, whine whine, you are stupid, you are biased, blah blah blah" same old response. I find it hilarious.


----------



## The MAgiC

I just can't help but laugh at Celtics fans using us not making it out of the 1st round as an excuse for them saying they're better. Detroit was the #1 seed. I can gaurantee that the Celtics would not have taken them to 7 games. So using that as an arguement is just plain stupid. You would have done worse against Detroit. Just more proof were the better team.

Also, anyone who doesn't realize the talent on the Magic, don't waste your time in this discussion. T-Mac passes to T-Mac? More like T-Mac passes to Gooden, Howard, Giricek, Gaines, Lue, Garrity.... he's not the only man on the team. Every man I just mentioned, with the exception of Gaines until he develops, is more than capable of double figures. I can't say the same about 5 guys on the Celtics.


----------



## goNBAjayhawks

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> I just can't help but laugh at Celtics fans using us not making it out of the 1st round as an excuse for them saying they're better. Detroit was the #1 seed. I can gaurantee that the Celtics would not have taken them to 7 games. So using that as an arguement is just plain stupid. You would have done worse against Detroit. Just more proof were the better team.
> 
> Also, anyone who doesn't realize the talent on the Magic, don't waste your time in this discussion. T-Mac passes to T-Mac? More like T-Mac passes to Gooden, Howard, Giricek, Gaines, Lue, Garrity.... he's not the only man on the team. Every man I just mentioned, except Gaines until he develops, is more than capable of double figures.


you are right, we wouldnt have gone to 7 games, we would have beat them in 5 like you guys should have done. Your series wasnt the epic underdog battling back, it was a 3-1 series lead, and you blew it and TMAC gaving the pistons "tackling fuel" by saying it felt good to get into the second round finally.

It doesnt matter how much talent is on the Magic, we know they have other players just like you, its TMAC that doesnt. I was yelling at him that whole series to hit giricek 4 3 as giricek was waiting wide open to knock it down, it was horrible, TMAC felt he had to do it all himself. Gooden was having a good series but TMAC didnt give it to him either. He was being double teamed and threw up horrible shots. It was a disgrace and i felt embarrassed. I was singing the praises of the Magic saying they could make it to the ECF. And hopefully face The Celtics in a big time show down, and with the Celtics beating the Pacers i thought for sure up 3-1 the magic would get by, but they didnt and TMAC should get the blame for how he played.


----------



## KBrownFan

*Celts will never get "respect"..*

Come on now..

Fans of every team are biased.. So you can't expect them to "respect" your team unless you make it to the finals or win it all. Heck ask any Piston or Pacer fan and they will tell you the Celtics got "lucky" and because of their offseason they are now better.

It might be fun to feel that your team is "disrespected"...but
Predicting the future is hard in sports.. I don't think Peter May is that off the mark

The Celtics have TONS of question marks they could be #1 if:

Walker returns to his youthful performances..
Baker rebounds and becomes a serviceable player.
Battie stays injury free.
Brown has a breakout year.
Banks shocks the haters and becomes a fusion of Baron Davis and JKidd.
Paul Pierce recovers his three point shooting stroke.
OB learns that the easy three isn't all that.
Brandon Hunter becomes a rebounding machine.
Perkins rises up and becomes a stud back up to Battie.

The could easily be #8 if:
Walker continues to be the ball-hog he was last year and insists on bring the ball up.
Baker stays drunk.
Battie breaks his leg.
Brown twists his ankle - twice.
Banks leads the league in turnovers and can't hit outside shots.
Paul Pierce plays the same as last year.
OB continues his strange love of unproductive players like Walter McCarty.
Perkins and Hunter sit on the inactive list.

Realistically #6 isn't a bad guess. The east is up in the air.
No one really knows what will happen. 

Pete


----------



## mrsister

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> I just can't help but laugh at Celtics fans using us not making it out of the 1st round as an excuse for them saying they're better. Detroit was the #1 seed. I can gaurantee that the Celtics would not have taken them to 7 games. So using that as an arguement is just plain stupid. You would have done worse against Detroit. Just more proof were the better team.


Proof? How is that proof? You saying that the Celtics would have lost to Detroit in less than seven games is proof? The Celtics beat Detroit the previous year 4-1 (essentially the same team minus Hamilton plus Stackhouse). Detroit was the #2 seed then, ahead of the Celtics. This year, Detroit lost to the Nets, the #2 seed, and were swept just like the Celtics. Being the #1 seed doesn't mean anything, especially in the East. The Nets nearly lost to the Pacers in the first round 2 years ago. This year, the Pacers were on track to actually be the #1 seed until they faltered a bit. The Nets faltered, too, but recovered to make it to the finals. 

I fail to see where the confidence comes from. Making it out of the first round is only one of several reasons why the Celtics may be better than the Magic next year, and it's certainly a better reason than your speculation on a series that never took place. At least our reason is based on a fact.


----------



## The MAgiC

The Celtics would have lost to the Pistons... period.

Jayhawks... just because you have a love affair with Gooden, doesn't mean you can blame everything on T-Mac.


----------



## KBrownFan

*Celts vs. Magic*

"The Celtics would have lost to the Pistons... period."

Quick hint..throwing the word "period" doesn't add any real relevance to your argument. Your theory that the Celts would have lost to Detroit is just speculation since the teams never met up.

Personally I hope the Celtics match up with the Magic in the playoffs this year so we can end this speculation. 

One factor in the Magics favor is rebounding..
I have noticed that AW is actually one of the worst rebounding PF's in the NBA. With Gooden a very good rebounder and now Howard an okay rebounder the Magic now have a significant rebounding edge over the Celtics. This could spell trouble.

A factor in the Celtics favour is that T-Mac has a reputation for not playing defense and choking. We shall see which side comes out ahead with any luck. 

Pete


----------



## Richie Rich

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe45555</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, that had nothing to do with my suspension. By the way, how did you change your name from "Celtz in 04'" to "Richie Rich"??
> 
> 
> And whenever I make a good point, and you have no response, you fall back on your "I'm tired of your crap, whine whine, you are stupid, you are biased, blah blah blah" same old response. I find it hilarious.








The thing is I always have a response, it just gets to the point where the response I am going to give every time will contradict yours and you will keep going with this. So I am going to be mature and stop b/c I come to this board to post w/ my fellow Celtic fans and ppl. who don't pick fights. So please don't respond to this post b/c I am done arguing with you, and no, itz not because I have nothing more to say nor that "I am wrong," itz b/c I refuse to waste my time arguing with someone who #1 I don't even kno and #2 continues to bash on every post I make b/c in your eyes it isn't good enough and has no proof or just is "whining, etc.", whatever.


----------



## Richie Rich

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> The Celtics would have lost to the Pistons... period.
> 
> Jayhawks... just because you have a love affair with Gooden, doesn't mean you can blame everything on T-Mac.








What is your basis for making the first comment? Just wondering. B/C the C's beat the Pistons in the playoffs two years ago.


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## whiterhino

This is stupid! I'd put money on the Celts finishing in the top 3 of the east this year. I already know Toine is slimmed down and I can always count on Pierce. Williams, McCarty, Delk, Battie & Blount we know what to expect from them. Banks, Perkins and Hunter can only help us to get better. We are not going to rely solely on them this year. Jones was a VERY solid addition and Brown will either become a stud this season or be gone next. Anything Baker provides if sober will be gravy. Fact is we were in the 2nd round of the playoffs last year. Fact is we were in the 3rd round of the playoffs 2 years ago. Fact is the Pacers & Majic choke in the playoffs. Fact is even Detroit & New Orleans are not very good playoff teams. Fact is I'm not worried about ANYONE except for the NETS because they are the ONLY proven winners in the East and after them I'd have to say the Celts have been great in the clutch. Anyone who rates us low is underating us.:yes:


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## mrsister

The fact is, everyone who made any significant contributions in the playoffs the last two years is back for the Celtics, except for Rodney Rogers and Kenny Anderson - both from 2 seasons ago. The Celtics have that stable core and have just added to it. The Magic do not have that stable core. McGrady hasn't become the leader they need. Armstrong was the closest thing they had to a leader, and he's gone. Howard hasn't lead anyone anywhere. I'm not denying the Magic have a lot of talent. They do. But they need to be on the same page. If talent was all it took, the Blazers would have some rings by now. Then look at Detroit. Hamilton is the only star on offense, and he's not close to McGrady. Wallace is a great rebounder and defender, but they don't win on individual talent. They win as a team. The Nets win as a team. Before Kidd came along, they were miserable with nearly the same personnel. Kidd brought them together as a cohesive unit. The Celtics aren't quite as with it as the Nets, but OB has gotten them to buy into a system, and Walker has stepped up as a vocal and emotional leader. They often win by sheer willpower rather than talent. They never feel like they're out of a game and have proven it many times. Players like Williams and McCarty don't fill up a stat sheet, but they give you energy and discipline. They'll do whatever's asked of them. 

Do we know which team, if any, will make a step forward? No, of course not. However, the past two years, the Celtics have overachieved, while the Magic have underachieved. Nobody picked the Celtics to get out of the first round either year, but I bet a lot of people thought the Magic would. The Magic are overrated, simply because people have higher expectations of them, not because they have bad players. The Celtics are underrated, because everyone counts them out except their fans. Even Danny Ainge thought they were a bad team when he was a commentator. But a win is a win. You can win a game on luck, but you can't win a series that way - unless you're the Lakers.


----------



## Big John

> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> 
> Do we know which team, if any, will make a step forward? No, of course not. However, the past two years, the Celtics have overachieved, while the Magic have underachieved.


Well that's why they play the games lol. They don't get played on paper. 

I think the Celtics underachieved last year. Both Pierce and Walker had sub par years and Battie was hobbling for the last 40 games. The Baker suspension didn't help either.

The Magic overachieved during the second half of the regular season last year. They reverted to form in game 5 of the Detroit series.

But mrsister, you are right about one thing. It is the Celtics' team play that makes them better than teams like Orlando, particularly their team half court defense. People forget that Dick Harter is worth 5+ wins a year, even though he doesn't show up in any of the player comparison charts.


----------



## aquaitious

You guys are making a VERY big deal out of this. We didn't get respect 2 seasons ago, and bascily we shouldn't have. Last season they said it was just luck the year before, and yet we made it to the playoffs. This year they are saying the same thing, the world of sports hate Antoine Walker, as long as he's here, we are always gonna be treated this way. Accept it.


----------



## mrsister

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> I think the Celtics underachieved last year. Both Pierce and Walker had sub par years and Battie was hobbling for the last 40 games. The Baker suspension didn't help either.


They underachieved in the regular season, but they overachieved in the playoffs. Nobody picked them to beat Indiana. Sure, Isaih helped, but even so, the Celtics had something to do with, especially Walker.


----------



## Big John

> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> 
> 
> They underachieved in the regular season, but they overachieved in the playoffs. Nobody picked them to beat Indiana. Sure, Isaih helped, but even so, the Celtics had something to do with, especially Walker.


Beating Indiana is overachieving? Isaiah can't coach, Jermaine O'Neal is totally overrated (think "soft"), Miller is ready for a rocking chair and everyone else sucks-- except Artest. In fact, if Artest had not played so well, the Celtics would have won 4 straight. Tinsley was so inconsistent that they had to bring Tim Hardaway out of retirement to stop the bleeding.

Sure, the so-called "experts" picked Indiana to win. That doesn't mean the celtics "overachieved" by beating them.


----------



## superknickfan

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> In his article listing the best 5 teams in the East, Peter May of the Globe omits the Celtics. His top 5 (in order): New Jersey, Detroit, New Orleans, Indiana and Orlando.


boston went into the playoffs heatlhy and they were most of the season.

the nets are 2 times east champs, they deserve mention

the pistons had the best record in the east last year?

new orleans was hurt all year by mash and baron and make the playoffs, they don't deserve that spot?

orlando added howard and drafted for their weakness. they are debatable but rest are good picks.


----------



## Big John

*Re: Re: The Celtics Get No Respect*



> Originally posted by <b>superknickfan</b>!
> boston went into the playoffs heatlhy and they were most of the season.


Say what? Battie and Walker were both hurt.


----------



## whiterhino

Delk was hurt in big parts of the season too, that's why JR Bremer played!


----------



## Brian.

> Originally posted by <b>sweet #17</b>!
> 2) Pistons - while I think the c's will continue to torture this team, especially if we meet in the playoffs. They do tend to have a good reg. season record though.


Torture of the pistons? We beat you guys by 50 pts in a game last season. We split the season series but the last game you beat us was the last game of the season. Our leading scorer that game was danny manning so you can tell we weren't going all out. As for the playoffs we met you guys two years ago since then we have added chuancey billups, rip hamilton, memhet okur and tayshuan prince and subtracted jerry stackhouse and jon barry. I would love to meet you guys in the playoffs now.


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## Big John

> Originally posted by <b>Brian</b>!
> I would love to meet you guys in the playoffs now.


Hopefully you will.


----------



## anh2173

> but they don't win on individual talent. They win as a team.


Someone tell OB that. The 'Huck-a-Chuck' offense is just not cutting it. I dont buy the 'we didnt have a real point guard' bit either. When JR Bremer first started playing he was penetrating and kicking the ball to the wing for uncontested 3-PT'ers or taking the shot himself. Between Antoine Walker's demand for the ball and Jim O'Brien's inability to implement an offensive game plan that incorporated the ENTIRE team, he quickly began to regress and ended up just being another one of the mediocre shooters from the outside.

Much is also made of the Celtics defense and I must give Dick Harter props. Notice I said Asst Coach Harter and not OB. Why dont the Celtics bring in an offensive coordinator much like they did with Harter for the defense? Hopefully, with the implementation of an uptempo fastbreaking mentality and the emergence of a more sophisticated offensive philosophy in the half-court set, the Celtics will become more effecient. They do protect the ball well, though, despite all the turnovers by both Pierce and Walker.

The Celtics are generally underated, IMO, by people outside of Boston. Meanwhile, a lot of Boston fans overate them. Eric Williams is not a very good defender, contrary to what many people think, most importantly Jim O'Brien. He is a matador on the floor and I would go so far as to call him a hinderance with his 'Ole' defense. Much is made of E-Vil's ability to plug holes on the help defense and that is his real strength. Again, I whole-heartedly disagree. The real key to the defense is actually Tony Battie.

As far the articile by Peter May, clearly, anything said by him has to be taken with a grain of salt. May is cut from the same cloth as Shagnasty and Creepy Pocked-Face Dead Guy. 

Assuming most teams stay healthy this season's playoffs in the East will break down something like this:

1. Nets
2. Pistons
3. Pacers
4. Hornets
5. Celtics
6. 76'ers
7. Magic
8. Toss Up

In the first round, Nets, Pistons, 76'ers and Celtics will move on.
In the second, Celtics and Nets.
Conference Finals: Celtics

I know that may seem rather bold, but I think by year's end, Kedrick Brown will be scoring, rebounding and playing shutdown defense. I also think Banks and Hunter will be playing significant minutes. And wildcard Vin Baker, will be contributing 10 ppg and 5 rpg in 20 mpg if they actually run plays for him.

DISCLAIMER: Of course, if E-Vill and McCarty are playing too many minutes, which is highly likely considering the coach, and none of the youth is developed, again, it will be a 1st or 2nd RD exit by the C's. Paul and Antone need to be kept around 36 mpg during the season to make a strong playoff run. With OB, I am just unsure the leopard can change his spots.


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## RP McMurphy

Your playoff bracket has the Celtics and Nets playing each other in the second round and both advancing.


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## Big John

> Originally posted by <b>anh2173</b>!
> 
> Why dont the Celtics bring in an offensive coordinator much like they did with Harter for the defense?
> 
> Hopefully, with the implementation of an uptempo fastbreaking mentality and the emergence of a more sophisticated offensive philosophy in the half-court set, the Celtics will become more effecient.
> 
> Eric Williams is not a very good defender...The real key to the defense is actually Tony Battie.
> 
> Assuming most teams stay healthy this season's playoffs in the East will break down something like this:
> 
> 1. Nets
> 2. Pistons
> 3. Pacers
> 4. Hornets
> 5. Celtics
> 6. 76'ers
> 7. Magic
> 8. Toss Up
> 
> In the first round, Nets, Pistons, 76'ers and Celtics will move on.
> In the second, Celtics and Nets.
> Conference Finals: Celtics
> 
> And wildcard Vin Baker, will be contributing 10 ppg and 5 rpg in 20 mpg if they actually run plays for him.
> 
> Paul and Antone need to be kept around 36 mpg during the season to make a strong playoff run. With OB, I am just unsure the leopard can change his spots.


Good post anh2173

1. They could definitely use Pete Carrill (or a disciple like Eddie Jordan) as an offensive coordinator. Right now Ainge is informally filling that role.

2. They may run in spurts, but they won't do it well until the second half of the year. Banks will have a serious learning curve and the others will have to develop the right mentality. In the first part of the year, I expect alot of sloppiness-- turnovers, passes thrown away, etc.

3, I disagree about Williams. He is not a great one-on-one defender, particularly since he almost always is defending a much bigger guy. Williams is 6-6, not 6-8, as listed. But Williams has the knack of being in the right place at the right time, particularly when they need a big stop in the 4th quarter of a close game. He does the dirty work, like Jerome Williams or Eduardo Najera.

Yes, Battie comes out and double teams the ball up high to cut off the passing angles. But the guy who rotates and covers when Battie is out at the top of the key is Antoine. And Pierce then rotates to the defensive glass. So it is really a team defense.

4. Celtics have to finish somewhere other than 5th to avoid the Nets in the first round, unless the Nets do not have the best record in the conference.

I continue to believe that Indiana and NO are overrated and that even with the troubles they will have during the first half of the year the Celtics can finish ahead of those teams. I'm more worried about the Sixers. 

5. I do not expect Vin Baker to contribute anything. But Brandon Hunter will. Hunter will play his way into the rotation and become a very important asset. I've been saying this for over a month now and no one really believes me. But they will.

Kedrick needs to start. They can use EWill or Jumaine Jones as a sparkplug off the bench-- assuming that Williams is not traded. I think they have one forward too many and could use a veteran pg (so long as it isn't KA).

6. I agree that it is essential to cut back Antoine and Paul's minutes. Last year they both ran out of gas. The C's are deeper this year, so I'm hopeful that OB's substitution patterns will change.


----------



## Bad Bartons

*Celtics get no respect*

I am amazed that this thread is still going.

Of course the Celtics get no respect. The C's are the type of team that you either love or hate. (Other examples include the Yankees, and Cowboys)

If the C's are not in championship contention then they are disrespected. But so what? I am among Celtic fans that appreciate the improvement the C's have made the last couple of years but I only count success in terms of banners. So it has been a long time since the Celtics have had a very successful season.

Celtic fans you need to get used to the rest of the NBA fans dissing us. We are the best and when you are the best people don't like ya!


----------



## The MAgiC

Yeah, you're the best.  When was the last time you won a title? What? A century ago? That's what I thought. 

Best, pffft.  
[strike]


> Good post anh2173


His post sucked.[/strike]

We don't allow attacks towards posters on this board. ---agoo


----------



## Big John

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> When was the last time you won a title? What? A century ago? That's what I thought.


Well we are ahead of the Magic 16-0. You couldn't even win one when you had Shaq and Penny. And given the Magic's crappy team defense, I doubt if you will win one anytime soon.


----------



## aquaitious

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> Yeah, you're the best.  When was the last time you won a title? What? A century ago? That's what I thought.
> 
> Best, pffft.
> 
> 
> 
> His post sucked.


Now thats a thought out post. :greatjob:


----------



## aquaitious

Think about it for a second, if we came this far these 2 seasons without a real offense, how would we do with a offense?


----------



## Richie Rich

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> Think about it for a second, if we came this far these 2 seasons without a real offense, how would we do with a offense?








Exactly what I've been wondering Aqua. I guess we will see. :yes:


----------



## Richie Rich

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> Well we are ahead of the Magic 16-0. You couldn't even win one when you had Shaq and Penny.








That's a fact. Put it in the books!!! :yes:


----------



## The MAgiC

And we've only been around 15 yrs. You've been around, what, 50? Oh yeah, we're soooo bad for not winning a title yet.  And that Finals was Shaq's own fault....


----------



## KBrownFan

*Magic and the title.*

"And we've only been around 15 yrs. You've been around, what, 50? Oh yeah, we're soooo bad for not winning a title yet. And that Finals was Shaq's own fault..."

This is a dumb thread.. 
First of all in fairness to Shaq - Penny sucks. Heh.
Secondly I am a huge Celtic fan...

But Drew Gooden and Juwan Howard will make Magic alot tougher through the course of the year. The Gooden trade was an absolute steal. Check out his stats..the guy is a great rebounder. He is alot more of an inside prescence then Walker. How they got him for the softest player in the NBA Mike Miller is a mystery to all right thinking people on this planet. Howard is a solid player as well. 

Guys like Banks, JJones and Baker might turn out okay and boost the Celtics up..but they might not. Heck Perhaps Kedrick Brown might have a break out year..who knows. 

So of course a writer would bet on a sure thing - and the Magic have made more of an upgrade in the sure thing department. Plus the Celtics play some UGLY ball on offense so its only natural writers vote against them. Nobody liked their game last year our own GM DA hated it.

THe Celtics were 6th last year..so with the improvements in teams like the Magic, Philly, NJ Peter May isn't that off.

Pete


----------



## Big John

*Re: Magic and the title.*



> Originally posted by <b>KBrownFan</b>!
> 
> THe Celtics were 6th last year..so with the improvements in teams like the Magic, Philly, NJ Peter May isn't that off.
> 
> Pete


NJ has improved, assuming Zo is healthy. The others haven't.


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## andy787

*to magic fanneds*

stop entering this thread and insulting us. it might been a long time since our last championship. but, have your team won any ??????????????
look first in the mirror, before you say anything.

anything you say may be brought against you.


----------



## whiterhino

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> And we've only been around 15 yrs. You've been around, what, 50? Oh yeah, we're soooo bad for not winning a title yet.  And that Finals was Shaq's own fault....


Let's see we've won 16 titles and you say oh, lets see we've been around 50 years according to you 16 divided by 50 = a title almost every 3 years!!!! You've been around 15 years and you've won 0!!!! Nice logical post there! Yeah, real SMART!!! According to that math you shoud have won 5 by now :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


----------



## Bad Bartons

*Hey "The Magic"*

The Boston Celtics are the greatest NBA franchise ever. The Lakers are the only other team in contention.

Celtic fans are smart and they know the game.

The Magic have only been to ONE championship series and they had their jocks handed to them. What a joke of an organization!
If Orlando had any smarts they would have kept Shaq, built around him like the Lakers did and started winning championships. The NBA gave Orlando the top pick in the draft two years in a row and they have nothing to show for it. 

It has not been a century since the Celtics have won a championship, Kid.

Go back to Disney World and think it over before you come into this forum and dis the Celtics and their fans. Maybe Goofy can give you some advice on how to conduct yourself in a more intelligent manner.


----------



## whiterhino

*Re: Hey "The Magic"*



> Originally posted by <b>Bad Bartons</b>!
> The Boston Celtics are the greatest NBA franchise ever. The Lakers are the only other team in contention.
> 
> Celtic fans are smart and they know the game.
> 
> The Magic have only been to ONE championship series and they had their jocks handed to them. What a joke of an organization!
> If Orlando had any smarts they would have kept Shaq, built around him like the Lakers did and started winning championships. The NBA gave Orlando the top pick in the draft two years in a row and they have nothing to show for it.
> 
> It has not been a century since the Celtics have won a championship, Kid.
> 
> Go back to Disney World and think it over before you come into this forum and dis the Celtics and their fans. Maybe Goofy can give you some advice on how to conduct yourself in a more intelligent manner.


I rate that a 5!!! :yes:


----------



## dsakilla

The Celtics are the greatest basketball franchise ever, but to me mentioning this is just a loophole out of the debate. No franchise can contend with 16 championships. That's a fact. But is this thread about the Celtics getting no respect now, as in the present, or is it about getting no respect ever, as in the past? The respect is there for Boston in the past, no doubt about it, but what have the Celtics or Magic done to deserve respect lately? An NBA finals appearence would get my respect, but until then, what is there to respect about the current Celtics or the Magic? You still only have two scorers, and really haven't made any significant additions to the team this year, but getting Banks and Perkins will help in the future. Perkins is a soft center out of high school, so it maybe 3-4 years before he can play. Marcus Banks is reall quick and can handle the ball extremely well, but his jump shot will have to improve, and he will be solid as he gets experience. Jumaine Jones won't do anything special, but he is a solid player that will help. But, look at the Sf position. Jumaine Jones, Eric Williams, Walter McCarty, and Kedrick Brown. Looks like Kedrick is the odd man out, so don't count on production from him. But the Celtics could realistically finish as high as #2, but they won't beat the Nets. The Nets only got stronger adding one of the best 3 centers in the Eastern Conference, while the Celtics have only added role players. 

Respect is there for Boston Celtics, the historic franchise who has had some of the best players in the history of the game, but the Celtics as of current are an average team who will not get past the Conference Finals until they get an inside scorer who could get a double-double. (Antoine, Battie, Perkins, Blount, and Brandon Hunter are not the answer inside to make it to the NBA Finals) So if the Celtics, an average team in the NBA, deserve respect, than half the league deserves at least the same respect, including the Magic.


----------



## Richie Rich

*Re: Hey "The Magic"*



> Originally posted by <b>Bad Bartons</b>!
> The Boston Celtics are the greatest NBA franchise ever. The Lakers are the only other team in contention.
> 
> Celtic fans are smart and they know the game.
> 
> The Magic have only been to ONE championship series and they had their jocks handed to them. What a joke of an organization!
> If Orlando had any smarts they would have kept Shaq, built around him like the Lakers did and started winning championships. The NBA gave Orlando the top pick in the draft two years in a row and they have nothing to show for it.
> 
> It has not been a century since the Celtics have won a championship, Kid.
> 
> Go back to Disney World and think it over before you come into this forum and dis the Celtics and their fans. Maybe Goofy can give you some advice on how to conduct yourself in a more intelligent manner.








LMFAO BB.


----------



## The MAgiC

*Re: Re: Magic and the title.*



> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> NJ has improved, assuming Zo is healthy. The others haven't.


Yes, the others have. You have no clue what you're talking about, therefore your opinion is void.


----------



## The MAgiC

*Re: Hey "The Magic"*



> Originally posted by <b>Bad Bartons</b>!
> The Boston Celtics are the greatest NBA franchise ever. The Lakers are the only other team in contention.
> 
> Celtic fans are smart and they know the game.
> 
> The Magic have only been to ONE championship series and they had their jocks handed to them. What a joke of an organization!
> If Orlando had any smarts they would have kept Shaq, built around him like the Lakers did and started winning championships. The NBA gave Orlando the top pick in the draft two years in a row and they have nothing to show for it.
> 
> It has not been a century since the Celtics have won a championship, Kid.
> 
> Go back to Disney World and think it over before you come into this forum and dis the Celtics and their fans. Maybe Goofy can give you some advice on how to conduct yourself in a more intelligent manner.


A joke of an organization? Nah, when I think joke, I think Celtics fans. Had any smarts? They didn't let Shaq leave, he left on his own. Maybe if you had a brain you could do some research to figure that out. He is not our fault. He wanted money and roles in horrible movies more than basketball success. Maybe if you had a brain you would also know I didn't mean century literally. It doesn't matter when the last time you won a title is, this is about the current situation of both teams. And like I said before, we've been around 15 yrs. How many titles have the Celtics won in that timespan? 0. So don't even bother mentioning titles. Whiterino's thinking is so flawed it's laughable. Then again, everything he says is. Boston fans are bringing up championships simply because they know their current team has nothing to show, and that they are in reality not as good as they want to believe they are. Changing the subject is a surefire way to lose the debate. 

It seems like I'm in an alternate universe where Disney is closer to Boston, because all their fans are living in Fantasyland.

Curent Boston < Current Orlando


----------



## goNBAjayhawks

*Re: Re: Hey "The Magic"*



> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> 
> 
> A joke of an organization? Nah, when I think joke, I think Celtics fans. Had any smarts? They didn't let Shaq leave, he left on his own. Maybe if you had a brain you could do some research to figure that out. He is not our fault. He wanted money and roles in horrible movies more than basketball success. Maybe if you had a brain you would also know I didn't mean century literally. It doesn't matter when the last time you won a title is, this is about the current situation of both teams. And like I said before, we've been around 15 yrs. How many titles have the Celtics won in that timespan? 0. So don't even bother mentioning titles. Whiterino's thinking is so flawed it's laughable. Then again, everything he says is. Boston fans are bringing up championships simply because they know their current team has nothing to show, and that they are in reality not as good as they want to believe they are. Changing the subject is a surefire way to lose the debate.
> 
> It seems like I'm in an alternate universe where Disney is closer to Boston, because all their fans are living in Fantasyland.
> 
> Curent Boston < Current Orlando


What our team has to show for is.... What the second round smells/feels like.... Do the magic know what it feel like, no.... they dont. Sure both are not great accomplishments, but someone won 4 games last post season and the other won 3. Not to mention the year b4 that.


----------



## Richie Rich

*Re: Re: Hey "The Magic"*



> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> 
> 
> A joke of an organization? Nah, when I think joke, I think Celtics fans.
> 
> Curent Boston < Current Orlando








Yea, you are the mature one... Don't post comments like that since we are all such "jokes" we may not know how to respond. O yea, quit making an *** out of yourself in our forum.


----------



## whiterhino

*Re: Re: Hey "The Magic"*



> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> 
> 
> A joke of an organization? Nah, when I think joke, I think Celtics fans. Had any smarts? They didn't let Shaq leave, he left on his own. Maybe if you had a brain you could do some research to figure that out. He is not our fault. He wanted money and roles in horrible movies more than basketball success. Maybe if you had a brain you would also know I didn't mean century literally. It doesn't matter when the last time you won a title is, this is about the current situation of both teams. And like I said before, we've been around 15 yrs. How many titles have the Celtics won in that timespan? 0. So don't even bother mentioning titles. Whiterino's thinking is so flawed it's laughable. Then again, everything he says is. Boston fans are bringing up championships simply because they know their current team has nothing to show, and that they are in reality not as good as they want to believe they are. Changing the subject is a surefire way to lose the debate.
> 
> It seems like I'm in an alternate universe where Disney is closer to Boston, because all their fans are living in Fantasyland.
> 
> Curent Boston < Current Orlando



You must be about 10 years old if you think my logic is flawed! Your a total *edited* and everyone in this forum knows it so go back to Majic land. You have nothing to back up your argument because the FACTS are every year the Majic have predictions that they will make it past the first round and EVERY YEAR they barely squeak in and get knocked out in the first. The Celtics on the other hand ALWAYS overacheive while the Majic ALWAYS underacheive. These are the facts, you just can't deal with them,so tuck you tail between your legs and go back to your Majic forum :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset:    :sour:

name calling is not allowed.


----------



## andy787

*majik joker*

go back to your fantasy wasteland forum where you belong !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
we don't tolerate low I.Q. trespassers here. scram.:mrt:


----------



## Bad Bartons

*You are a funny kid "The Magic"*

I do not have to "research" the reason Shaq left Orlando. I remember it, Kid. He was tired of playing for a second rate expansion team. Orlando should have done more to get him to stay. The Timber Wolves convinced Garnett to stay up north. Orlando should have tried harder to keep Shaq. 

When TMac gets tired of getting knocked out of the first round of the playoffs he will look for a winner organization.

When the Celtics go into the playoffs they have legends like Bill Russell, Bob Cousy, Larry Bird and John Havlicek to look up to. It is a great place to play in the playoffs. Who comes to the Orlando games to motivate the Magic players with the Orlando tradition of winning (Dennis Scott or maybe Scott Skiles)? 

Really, take your Mickey Mouse lunch box and go back fairyland with Tinkerbell.


----------



## The MAgiC

*Re: You are a funny kid "The Magic"*

The entire forum is in an uproar. Now I know how primates react when someone disagrees with their flawed, biased logic. :laugh: This is too easy.




> Originally posted by <b>Bad Bartons</b>!
> I do not have to "research" the reason Shaq left Orlando. I remember it, Kid. He was tired of playing for a second rate expansion team. Orlando should have done more to get him to stay. The Timber Wolves convinced Garnett to stay up north. Orlando should have tried harder to keep Shaq.
> 
> When TMac gets tired of getting knocked out of the first round of the playoffs he will look for a winner organization.
> 
> When the Celtics go into the playoffs they have legends like Bill Russell, Bob Cousy, Larry Bird and John Havlicek to look up to. It is a great place to play in the playoffs. Who comes to the Orlando games to motivate the Magic players with the Orlando tradition of winning (Dennis Scott or maybe Scott Skiles)?
> 
> Really, take your Mickey Mouse lunch box and go back fairyland with Tinkerbell.


Kid? You're funny. I feel like I'm the one talking to a bunch of kids. A second rate expansion team eh? Hmm, since you're so young, you probably don't remember this. But back in 95 the Magic were in something commonly reffered to as the "NBA Finals". So as you can see, calling the Magic organization names that have no meaning is just foolish. Do more to get him to stay? Well gee, we already had a Finals team, what did you want us to do? Have the entire organization jump around like monkeys for his amusement? Sorry, doesn't work that way. 

Heh... a winner organization. Too bad that's not what the Celtics are anymore. Chances are he'll stay, whether you like it or not. Why would we need former Magic players to come to games just to motivate the players? You're very strange.  Why are you naming Celtics players anyway? We've had almost the same amount of good players as you in a much smaller amount of time. :laugh: 

I always find Disney jokes especially amusing, no matter how elementary they are. Maybe you should actually learn something about Orlando, then try using it to diss me, instead of the same old weak Disney crap. It's just pathetic. If you're going to be immature, you're going to have to at least do better than that. Disney's not even in Orlando for christ's sake...


----------



## Bad Bartons

*This is getting old*

I usually do not take part in these kind of back and forth arguments but it has been rather fun.

Not totally terrible replies.

I do react like a primate...but after all a human is a primate.

I have not enjoyed it as much as I would have for a team that I actually dislike. Actually, Tracy McGrady is one of my favorite players in the NBA. And I said from the beginning that the Mike Miller trade was excellent for the Magic. There still is no room for Orlando to brag. Making the playoffs is much easier than advancing in the playoffs.

I think it is time for me to just agree to disagree with you.

Thanks for the laughs it has been fun.


----------



## theBirdman

Comparing Boston organisation and Orlando organisation is a total stupidity! The Celtics are the greatest basketball franchise ever, so to even consider comparing them with a franchise like Orlando (or even other franchises like TOR,MIA and all the rest for that matter...) which hasnt achieved anything yet, is just not worth the words! The banners speak for themselves!

Of course, there is another thing comparing our current teams! Yes, Orlando has improved this offseason, but so have we. They have a nice team and one of top 10 players in the league in T-Mac. So they just might finish ahead of us in the regular season, but who cares! In the playoffs we can beat anybody and that is what really matters! We have shown that we can win in the postseason and Orlando hasnt proven that yet. And untill it does, we are considered the better team!


----------



## texan

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> I was thinking about this whole thing with the Magic and the Celtics and I got to wondering, what actually makes the Magic fans think that they're better than the Celtics? They don't beat the Celtics on the court (6-3 record over the last two seasons). Personally, I don't think they beat the Celts on paper either.
> 
> *CENTER*
> Tony Battie/Mark Blount vs. Andrew DeClerq/Stephen Hunter
> 
> Advantage Celtics whether it be the starter or the backup.
> 
> *POWERFORWARD*
> Antoine Walker/Vin Baker vs. Juwan Howard/Shawn Kemp
> 
> Advantage Celtics again. Sure, Baker is a risk and cannot be depended upon for anything, but isn't Kemp just about the same? Antoine, despite all those knocks against him, is still an all-star, which is more than I'll ever be able to say about Juwan Howard.
> 
> *SMALLFORWARD*
> Jumaine Jones/Eric Williams vs. Drew Gooden/Pat Garrity
> 
> Advantage Magic. This isn't really a major advantage. Remember, Gooden became available because he couldn't play smallforward in the west. The three position is better in the east than it is in the west. Gooden should be able to put up 15 and 8 though he is out of position. I'm sure some Magic backers will say Gooden can get 20 and 10, but I'd like to let you all know that only 3 guys did that last year and only 6 got double digit rebounds per game. Off the bench, I'd take Williams over Garrity, which makes it less of a Magic advantage. Throw the fact that Walter McCarty is third string, according to me anyway, and the advantage is pretty much nonexistent, but I'm sticking with the starter and his top backup.
> 
> *SHOOTING GUARD*
> Paul Pierce/Kedrick Brown vs. Tracy McGrady/Gordan Giricek
> 
> Advantage Magic, but its much closer to push than you may think. I have a feeling Brown might have a breakout year and could challenge for the starting SF position, which would move Jumaine down to back up Pierce. The gulf between McGrady and Pierce is just about nonexistent, but just to save myself the argument, I'm giving it to the Magic. Also, Giricek should be a starter in this league. However, due to the signing of Howard, who plays the same position as the Magic's second best player but will command starting minutes anyway, Giricek is forced to back up McGrady.
> 
> *POINT GUARD*
> Marcus Banks/Tony Delk vs. Tyronn Lue/Reece Gaines
> 
> Advantage Celtics. Major advantage here. Its been said that Gaines is a better fit for the Celtics because they need someone to guard the taller points in the league, like who? The hulking giant 6-4 Jason Kidd? Perhaps the gigantic 6-3 Chauncey Billups? Point guards don't need to be 6-6. If they are and they're good, its a nice luxury. That said, Gaines is no luxury item. Furthermore, you only need a tall PG if you have a short SG (like Iverson for example). McGrady, at 6-8, is not a short SG. Back to Magic-Celtics comparison. I have a feeling that if Mike James were in Orlando, he'd be battling Lue for a starting position and he's the third PG on the Celtics.
> 
> So on paper, the Celtics have major advantages and C and PG, and a fairly sizeable one at PF. Meanwhile, the Magic have the advantage in near pushes at SG and SF. Looking at it that way, I might have to edit my earlier statement that Orlando might have a better regular season than the Celtics. Now that I've compared both rosters, I don't think they will.



lets see :

c battie/blount vs gooden/kemp advangtage:magic
pf toine/baker vs howard/hunter advatage:celts(not a major one tho)
sf jumaine jones/eric williams vs gordan giricek/pat garrity advantage: magic
sg paul pierce/kedrick brown vs tracy mcgrady advantage:magic
pg marcus banks/tony delk vs reece gaines/ty lue advantage: celts

the development of gooden and giricek are essential but im sure they can progress enough and proudce. the celtics advantages are not nearly as big as the magic advantages and the uncertanty of how the rookei pgs will play will most likely determine the pg spot. im not a magic fan this is jus how i see it. besides you shouldnt e argueing about this cuz neither of your teams have any chance of a title


----------



## sweet #17

Alright so this thread was finally slowing down and here I go stirring the pot but:

quote:
"c battie/blount vs gooden/kemp advangtage:magic"

Is gooden really projected to play C? On your board it seemed to me posters agreed that he was a sf/pf. With that being the case its:
battie/blount vs. kemp/DeClercq advantage: c's but only by alittle. 

This would go with agoo's post. Starting five celtics advantage.


----------



## The MAgiC

You're both wrong. 

1. Gooden is a PF and PF only. If someone's playing out of position, it's Howard. We wouldn't risk the development of a rising star.
2. Howard will be the starting C
3. Kemp isn't even on the Magic

C: Battie vs. Howard 
PF: Walker vs. Gooden
SF: Jones vs. Giricek
SG: Pierce vs. T-Mac
PG: Delk vs. Lue

Starting 5 Advantage : Magic




And for the sake of not seeing anymore invalid comparisons:

Normal lineup:
PG: Lue / Gaines
SG: T-Mac / Bogans
SF: Giricek / Garrity
PF: Gooden / Declercq
C: Howard / Hunter

Big lineup:
PG: Gaines / Lue
SG: T-Mac / Giricek
SF: Howard / Garrity
PF: Gooden / Pachulia
C: Hunter / Declercq

Our lack of size in the past is well documented, but with the second lineup on the floor we'd have one of the tallest 5 in the East.... and nobody seems to even realizes we have that option. We just need Hunter to stay out of foul trouble. He's due for a breakout season in a lot of people's minds. Not neccesarily mine.


----------



## BleedGreen

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 


This thread is hilarious. I'm not really the arguing type. Sitting back and watching is kinda fun though.:yes:


----------



## The MAgiC

[strike]Hey hobo, you're quick to talk about other posters, considering you were recently suspended and all... maybe you'd be better off if you kept your opinions to yourself?[/strike]

Irony anyone? ---agoo


----------



## aquaitious

> Originally posted by <b>BleedGreen</b>!
> :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
> 
> 
> This thread is hilarious. I'm not really the arguing type. Sitting back and watching is kinda fun though.:yes:


Thats what I have been doing.


----------



## whiterhino

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> You're both wrong.
> 
> 1. Gooden is a PF and PF only. If someone's playing out of position, it's Howard. We wouldn't risk the development of a rising star.
> 2. Howard will be the starting C
> 3. Kemp isn't even on the Magic
> 
> C: Battie vs. Howard
> PF: Walker vs. Gooden
> SF: Jones vs. Giricek
> SG: Pierce vs. T-Mac
> PG: Delk vs. Lue
> 
> 
> Marcus Banks is our starting Point Guard GET IT STRAIGHT!!!
> Also I like spelling MaGic, MaJic because it always gets you guys ticked!


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Hey "The Magic"*

nevermind


----------



## The MAgiC

Mmm... I think you do it because you simply can't spell. Your inability to spell doesn't bother me one bit. But I do have to question you thinking a rookie will be your starter. Surely your coach can't be that stupid? Maybe in the 2nd half of the season, but not starting it. Same thing with Gaines.


----------



## aquaitious

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> Mmm... I think you do it because you simply can't spell. Your inability to spell doesn't bother me one bit. But I do have to question you thinking a rookie will be your starter. Surely your coach can't be that stupid? Maybe in the 2nd half of the season, but not starting it. Same thing with Gaines.


:laugh: Thats funny, he was at least the second best PG in the draft and you question that? 

What about the Cavs, do you question them starting LeBron???


----------



## Captain Obvious

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> :laugh: Thats funny, he was at least the second best PG in the draft and you question that?
> 
> What about the Cavs, do you question them starting LeBron???


How is Banks at least the second best PG in the draft when he was the fourth taken and three other PGs were taken right after him? It's too early to say that, Banks hasn't proven anything. Boston should start Delk at the beginning and shield Banks for a while like a few other teams that drafted point guards are doing.


----------



## Big John

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> But I do have to question you thinking a rookie will be your starter. Surely your coach can't be that stupid? Maybe in the 2nd half of the season, but not starting it. Same thing with Gaines.


I'm tempted to point out that maybe it's because Banks is good enough to start and Gaines isn't, but even though that statement is true it might be inflamatory. So forget I said it.


----------



## Richie Rich

> Originally posted by <b>Big John</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm tempted to point out that maybe it's because Banks is good enough to start and Gaines isn't, but even though that statement is true it might be inflamatory. So forget I said it.








We can always count on Big John to know what to say. Yup. :yes:


----------



## aquaitious

> Originally posted by <b>Richie Rich</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We can always count on Big John to know what to say. Yup. :yes:


He didn't say anything.


----------



## Richie Rich

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> He didn't say anything.








O yea. I 4got.


----------



## The MAgiC

Pathetic bias. I got news for you buddy, Banks is not good enough to start right away, and even if he was, he'd still be no better than Gaines. Most people, because they actually know what they're talking about, predict Gaines will be better than Banks. Sorry to burst your fantasy bubble.

2nd best PG in the draft.... you're friggen hilarious. And don't go comparing Banks to LeBron. That's stupidity at it's worst.


----------



## agoo

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> Pathetic bias. I got news for you buddy, Banks is not good enough to start right away, and even if he was, he'd still be no better than Gaines. Most people, because they actually know what they're talking about, predict Gaines will be better than Banks. Sorry to burst your fantasy bubble.
> 
> 2nd best PG in the draft.... you're friggen hilarious. And don't go comparing Banks to LeBron. That's stupidity at it's worst.


Got a link to an article because I don't think I've seen anyone say that Gaines will be better than Banks.


----------



## aquaitious

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> Pathetic bias. I got news for you buddy, Banks is not good enough to start right away, and even if he was, he'd still be no better than Gaines. Most people, because they actually know what they're talking about, predict Gaines will be better than Banks. Sorry to burst your fantasy bubble.
> 
> 2nd best PG in the draft.... you're friggen hilarious. And don't go comparing Banks to LeBron. That's stupidity at it's worst.


Sorry

No baiting. ---agoo


----------



## aquaitious

This is why you can't take the Magic Seriously.

http://espn.go.com/oly/news/2003/0826/1603667.html

You guys got two GREAT players but are always injured. If T-Mac stays injured for a part of a season, what are you gonna do then?


----------



## Captain Obvious

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> This is why you can't take the Magic Seriously.
> 
> http://espn.go.com/oly/news/2003/0826/1603667.html
> 
> You guys got two GREAT players but are always injured. If T-Mac stays injured for a part of a season, what are you gonna do then?


T-Mac isn't always injured. His back has been bothering him on and off for years, but he still plays almost every game and he plays great, so it's not a major problem. He's sitting out because he doesn't want to risk ruining his season. If it was the regular season he'd probably play.


----------



## Richie Rich

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> Pathetic bias. I got news for you buddy, Banks is not good enough to start right away, and even if he was, he'd still be no better than Gaines. Most people, because they actually know what they're talking about, predict Gaines will be better than Banks. Sorry to burst your fantasy bubble.
> 
> 2nd best PG in the draft.... you're friggen hilarious. And don't go comparing Banks to LeBron. That's stupidity at it's worst.








Most people that know what they are actuallyt talking about will kno that the Magic would have taken Banks had the Grizzlies not taken him and had a trade w/ the C's already planned out. Stupidity @ it's worst? I think all he said was 2nd best, after LeBron, thatz it, and you have no proof that Banks is going to be great or not so great, nor Gaines, [strike]so maybe u shud check whose comments are that of "stupidity."[/strike]

No baiting. ---agoo


----------



## The MAgiC

The irony. He is not the 2nd best PG in the draft. Everyone drafted before him, and a few after him, are better than him. The only reason he was drafted when he was in the first place is because the trade was pre-planned. What don't you understand about that? Magic had their sights set on Gaines before the draft even happened, but were worried he'd go before 15, which he should have. He fell in our lap. So believe what you want to believe, but we got who we wanted and there's a reason we wanted him. So it seems everyone but you knows what they're talking about.

Neither player will be ready to start at the beginning of the season.


----------



## whiterhino

Ummm, I hate to break the news to you Ma*G* ic but you guys were mad that we made the trade with the Griz and got Banks because you were gonna take him and that's why we HAD to make the trade because Ainge refused to lose Banks. Gaines isn't even a point guard and he's gonna be a bench warmer in the NBA.....he's already being predicted as a dissapointment by most! Banks is lightning quick and teams are drooling over him and HE IS GOING TO START!


----------



## The MAgiC

I hope that was a joke. That entire post was nothing but a steaming pile of biased crap. We were pissed off that you took Banks? Give me a break. Why don't you post the article that said that? Oh that's right, you can't, because it's not true. WE GOT WHO WE WANTED ALL ALONG. Gaines being predicted as a disapointment? By whom? Boston fans? [strike]Sorry, your biased, ignorant opinions don't count.[/strike] Gaines is predicted by most to be better than Banks, so if that means he's a benchwarmer like you say, then Banks is the next Jeryl Sasser....

I'm sure everyone is simply drooling over Banks... or they could care less? Yes, that seems like the more likely case. If he is going to start, you are going to lose. :laugh:

Lets all avoid insulting the entire fan base of other teams. They're people with feelings too. ---agoo


----------



## bballin

glad to know that we are hearing from someone who is obviously in the loop with the Magic's coaching staff and GM. You "know" what was going on with the draft, or do you know what was reported in the media, which so often is shown to be baseless dribbling?

[strike]I believe you have your own forum, dont let the keyboard hit you on the way out.[/strike]

That was a useless and rediculous comment right there. The point of the Celtics board is to discuss the Celtics. Its not a Celtic fan forum. ---agoo


----------



## aquaitious

> But I do have to question you thinking a rookie will be your starter. Surely your coach can't be that stupid? Maybe in the 2nd half of the season, but not starting it. Same thing with Gaines.


All right let me make this clear.

Why wouldn't a rookie be a starter? From number 1 to number 58, every rookie can be a starter, do you question the Cavs starting LeBron? Why?? Because he's the number one pick he deserves to start? 

2nd I wasn't even thinking of LeBron as a PG, he'll play "PG" but he won't be a "PG" he'll be more of a power forward, what kind of PG will guard a 6-8 "PG"?

If anyone is gonna be better then Banks, it might be TJ Ford, he was projected to go as high as #4 at a time. He feel to number 8 because of his size. 
Hinrich was a desperate pick for the Bulls, after JWill's accident, they needed a back up. Hinrich will not even start for the Bulls, so why even think of him having a better season? Or a better career.

If Pavel Podkolzine stayed in the draft, he would have messed it up for us. Because he was later on projected to be picked as high as 4th, and if that happened, well basicly the Grizzlies would have gotten the player they wanted and we wouldn't have gotten Banks. Seattle had the 14th pick and had their eye out on Banks, there was like a 75% chance that they would get them, because they had their eye out on other players as well, if they didn't pick him, Orlando's chance TO GET BANKS WAS 99.9% A SURE THINGS. READ THE PAPERS, EVERYONE IS SAYING SO.
The other 3 point guard are either not real point guard (shoot first, pass second), or are WAY TOO SLIM TO PLAY PG, they are all gonna be pushed around even by guys like Earl Boykins (joke btw).



> 2nd best PG in the draft.... you're friggen hilarious. And don't go comparing Banks to LeBron. That's stupidity at it's worst.


Please tell me when I compared them, you questioned Banks starting as a rookie, but don't question LeBron starting as a rookei. Well newsflash they were both drafted at the same draft and both are rookies, there is no difference between them, only that one's got major media support to pump him since he was 15-16 years of age. (I know that he did live up to his expatations in the summer league, and I know he will in the future, and yes LeBron is a better player, but still a rookie).



> T-Mac isn't always injured. His back has been bothering him on and off for years, but he still plays almost every game and he plays great, so it's not a major problem. He's sitting out because he doesn't want to risk ruining his season. If it was the regular season he'd probably play.


T-Mac is a great player, I admire that he EVEN tried to play through injury, but injuries never heal 100%, they are always gonna come back, so one season he'll play through them, the next season he'll miss a couple of games, the season after that he'll miss even more.




> The only reason he was drafted when he was in the first place is because the trade was pre-planned. What don't you understand about that?


Geez I wonder why the trade was pre-planned??? MAYBE BECAUSE THE SONICS AND YOU GUYS (THE MAGIC) WANTED BANKS? Why don't you understand _that????????_ 




> Gaines being predicted as a disapointment? By whom? Boston fans? Sorry, your biased, ignorant opinions don't count.


No sorry, we don't care about any Gaines, why would we talk horrible about him if he's not even on our team, you started this talking about PGs.



> If he is going to start, you are going to lose.


Oh yea, we are going to lose, WE PLAYED WITHOUT A REAL POINT GUARD FOR A WHOLE YEAR AND MADE IT FURTHER THEN 20+ TEAMS. The only thing Banks can bring us is a good thing, NEVER A BAD.


----------



## Richie Rich

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> All right let me make this clear.
> 
> Why wouldn't a rookie be a starter? From number 1 to number 58, every rookie can be a starter, do you question the Cavs starting LeBron? Why?? Because he's the number one pick he deserves to start?
> 
> 2nd I wasn't even thinking of LeBron as a PG, he'll play "PG" but he won't be a "PG" he'll be more of a power forward, what kind of PG will guard a 6-8 "PG"?
> 
> If anyone is gonna be better then Banks, it might be TJ Ford, he was projected to go as high as #4 at a time. He feel to number 8 because of his size.
> Hinrich was a desperate pick for the Bulls, after JWill's accident, they needed a back up. Hinrich will not even start for the Bulls, so why even think of him having a better season? Or a better career.
> 
> If Pavel Podkolzine stayed in the draft, he would have messed it up for us. Because he was later on projected to be picked as high as 4th, and if that happened, well basicly the Grizzlies would have gotten the player they wanted and we wouldn't have gotten Banks. Seattle had the 14th pick and had their eye out on Banks, there was like a 75% chance that they would get them, because they had their eye out on other players as well, if they didn't pick him, Orlando's chance TO GET BANKS WAS 99.9% A SURE THINGS. READ THE PAPERS, EVERYONE IS SAYING SO.
> The other 3 point guard are either not real point guard (shoot first, pass second), or are WAY TOO SLIM TO PLAY PG, they are all gonna be pushed around even by guys like Earl Boykins (joke btw).
> 
> 
> 
> Please tell me when I compared them, you questioned Banks starting as a rookie, but don't question LeBron starting as a rookei. Well newsflash they were both drafted at the same draft and both are rookies, there is no difference between them, only that one's got major media support to pump him since he was 15-16 years of age. (I know that he did live up to his expatations in the summer league, and I know he will in the future, and yes LeBron is a better player, but still a rookie).
> 
> 
> 
> T-Mac is a great player, I admire that he EVEN tried to play through injury, but injuries never heal 100%, they are always gonna come back, so one season he'll play through them, the next season he'll miss a couple of games, the season after that he'll miss even more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Geez I wonder why the trade was pre-planned??? MAYBE BECAUSE THE SONICS AND YOU GUYS (THE MAGIC) WANTED BANKS? Why don't you understand _that????????_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No sorry, we don't care about any Gaines, why would we talk horrible about him if he's not even on our team, you started this talking about PGs.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yea, we are going to lose, WE PLAYED WITHOUT A REAL POINT GUARD FOR A WHOLE YEAR AND MADE IT FURTHER THEN 20+ TEAMS. The only thing Banks can bring us is a good thing, NEVER A BAD.








Amen.


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## mrsister

Since when is starting rookies a rare occurence? It happens all the time. If they're the best player you have at a position, then you'd be stupid not to start them unless they're the type of player who performs better off the bench. Even Bremer started a bunch of games, and he wasn't even drafted.


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## The MAgiC

I can't believe you don't even see the difference between Banks and LeBron. That says it all right there.  The fact that they're both rookies doesn't matter. LeBron is LeBron. Banks is Banks. LeBron can start the season. Banks can't. 

The trade was pre-planned because someone ELSE wanted him, but it WASN'T US. We wanted Gaines. They even said it before the draft!!! They wanted Gaines! Not Banks! How many times do I have to say it for it to become clear?


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## agoo

> Originally posted by <b>bballin</b>!
> glad to know that we are hearing from someone who is obviously in the loop with the Magic's coaching staff and GM. You "know" what was going on with the draft, or do you know what was reported in the media, which so often is shown to be baseless dribbling?
> 
> [strike]I believe you have your own forum, dont let the keyboard hit you on the way out.[/strike]
> 
> That was a useless and rediculous comment right there. The point of the Celtics board is to discuss the Celtics. Its not a Celtic fan forum. ---agoo


Why don't you post the article to a link that said that the Magic wanted Gaines all along? Perhaps that one does not exist? Personally, I never heard anything of the Magic wanting Gaines. All I heard about the Magic prior to the draft was that if Banks went past Seattle, he'd be playing in Orlando.


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## whiterhino

I don't know where that article is, I thought I read it on ESPN but I can't find too many of the pre-draft articles But anyway, they always liked Gaines (for some reason) but didn't think Banks would be available to them, what I read in the article is that if he dropped to them they would have jumped on him because they needed a point guard bad. Gaines is truly not a point guard, he's a combo guard. 
I am not going to argue with Ma*G* ic anymore because until his team actually competes in the playoffs and gets past the first round he can say they are great all he wants but the fact is they are not


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## aquaitious

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> I can't believe you don't even see the difference between Banks and LeBron.


What difference? Cavs needed LeBron, we needed Banks, now why wouldn't we start him?



> LeBron can start the season. Banks can't.


If anything Banks is more ready (to start) then LeBron, Banks has 4 years of College while LeBron has what? 4 years of High School?


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## Richie Rich

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> What difference? Cavs needed LeBron, we needed Banks, now why wouldn't we start him?
> 
> 
> 
> If anything Banks is more ready (to start) then LeBron, Banks has 4 years of College while LeBron has what? 4 years of High School?








Good point.


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## shiggins

doesnt really matter if james is "ready" or not hes going to tear it up none the less. I think Banks is the 2nd best PG in the draft. In my opinion TJ Ford is better. Im thrilled with Banks. Hes a better player than Gaines from what ive seen and whats happened in summer camp. From what ive seen Banks looks pretty damn good. He handles the ball well, is fast and can shoot decently. For everyone who says blablbla his FG% was only high because he went out on the break for layups......What the hell is wrong with layups? They count the same. He made 1/2 his shots, whats there to complain about? I think the only reason Gaines was rated higher by some people is that hes a little taller. I think Banks is much faster and stronger. Height isnt everything with a PG anyway. Look at some of the tall point guards and they didnt pan out really. For instance Larry Hughes, by the way is more talented than Gaines by far. And to whoever thinks lebron james is going to be a PG thats rediculous. Hes going to play the 3. No question maybe some 2 as well but 3. The PG thing isnt where he should be. He should be getting the ball on the wing and scoring. Also if the Cs had Gaines I honestly dont see him starting over Delk or Bremer who we would still have if we werent so high on Banks. Just my thoughts


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## 2PacFan4Life

> Originally posted by <b>shiggins</b>!
> doesnt really matter if james is "ready" or not hes going to tear it up none the less. I think Banks is the 2nd best PG in the draft. In my opinion TJ Ford is better. Im thrilled with Banks. Hes a better player than Gaines from what ive seen and whats happened in summer camp. From what ive seen Banks looks pretty damn good. He handles the ball well, is fast and can shoot decently. For everyone who says blablbla his FG% was only high because he went out on the break for layups......What the hell is wrong with layups? They count the same. He made 1/2 his shots, whats there to complain about? I think the only reason Gaines was rated higher by some people is that hes a little taller. I think Banks is much faster and stronger. Height isnt everything with a PG anyway. Look at some of the tall point guards and they didnt pan out really. For instance Larry Hughes, by the way is more talented than Gaines by far. And to whoever thinks lebron james is going to be a PG thats rediculous. Hes going to play the 3. No question maybe some 2 as well but 3. The PG thing isnt where he should be. He should be getting the ball on the wing and scoring. Also if the Cs had Gaines I honestly dont see him starting over Delk or Bremer who we would still have if we werent so high on Banks. Just my thoughts


Your credibility goes out the window when you say LeBron is going to be a 2 or 3 definetly and you say that there's no way he'll play PG. You're way off with this statement as the Cavs have repeatedly said he will play PG, as he did in the Summer League.


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## aquaitious

> Originally posted by <b>2PacFan4Life</b>!
> 
> 
> Your credibility goes out the window when you say LeBron is going to be a 2 or 3 definetly and you say that there's no way he'll play PG. You're way off with this statement as the Cavs have repeatedly said he will play PG, as he did in the Summer League.


He may "play" PG, but he's not a PG. Kinda like with 'Toine, he's a PF but he "plays" PG.


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## Richie Rich

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> He may "play" PG, but he's not a PG. Kinda like with 'Toine, he's a PF but he "plays" PG.








Itz not worth arguing Aqua, don't worry, I see wat you are saying.


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## The MAgiC

You once again prove you have no clue what's going on.


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## aquaitious

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> You once again prove you have no clue what's going on.


I don't?:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## KBrownFan

*Banks -surefire starter..*

I have seen alot of players come and go...
But from what I have seen of Banks guy looks like a surefire starter. He had four years at a major college program and he has excellent skills. Great hesitation moves, decent shooter, and a fantastic handle. Plus he is a surprsingly aggressive playmaker..guy really enjoys setting people up - usually off of drives.

He turns the ball over more then he should because he can be too aggressive but compared to Delk or James he really is a shoe in to be a starter. Turnovers will remain his big problem though..maybe for years to come. Check out those college stats...eww.

Also I agree that Gaines and Lebron are combo guards. Anytime a guard can dribble a bit or pass some people want to make him into a point. Its kind of a version of "bigman-itis" with regards to points. The Magic have suffered badly from it ever since "Penny" was thought to be a great player by a few deluded magic fans.

But not every big guard with a modicum of ball handling and passing skills are fit to become points in the NBA.

It just doesn't work that way. Points are guys that WANT to handle the ball and love the extra pressure and work associated with. They should easily be able to bring the ball up against pressure and they should find delight in passing the ball as well as scoring.

Guys like Lebron, Hughes, Gaines and Joe Johnson are all skilled players who can kind of "get by" at the point especially at the HS or College level. But I think most fans can tell they aren't points. They don't really LIKE playing the point. Its a lot more work and hassle. Its something you have to love.

Trust me Gaines and Lebron would prefer not to play the point. You can see it in their games. These guys want to be freed up to score, rebound and create when passed too. With the point guard its almost the reverse of most other positions. Taller guys have to work HARDER especially with regards to ball handling. 

They don't want to fight against the press and be responsible for running the entire team. Its easy to see...much in the same way you could see poor Tony Delk just SUFFERING playing the point.
T-Buckets will admit it..he hates to play the point.

You think Lebron wants to chase around MBanks for a whole game? Heck no. Kevin Ollie will be doing most of the point work even if Lebron gets credit for being the "point guard"

Come on people..I know most of the people on this board play ball. Sure we like to dribble and pass to set up guys once we get up the floor. But how many people like bringing the ball up against a stifling press or some dogged defender? Not me..same deal with those pros.

Pete


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## The MAgiC

> The Magic have suffered badly from it ever since "Penny" was thought to be a great player by a few deluded magic fans.


You have absolutely got to be kidding me. Penny was the 2nd best gaurd behind MJ when he was in his prime on the Magic. That statement was just a rediculous attempt at dissing Magic fans by calling us "deluded".


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## KBrownFan

"You have absolutely got to be kidding me. Penny was the 2nd best gaurd behind MJ when he was in his prime on the Magic. That statement was just a rediculous attempt at dissing Magic fans by calling us "deluded"."

[strike]Damn..you magic fans never change!
Penny was the 2nd best point guard? LOL. That has to be one of the dumbest comments I have ever seen posted.

You do realize that both Stockton (HOF) and GP (HOF) guys were in the league and at the peak of their games. <g> Penny couldn't hold these guys jocks..

You dont need me to discredit you.
You have done that all by yourself. Wow.[/strike]

Pete

No insulting other posters or the fanbase of other teams. ---agoo


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## The MAgiC

I state the truth and nobody can do better than go off on me without proving me wrong. Typical. Was Stockton or Payton getting called the next MJ? No... I don't believe they were. BTW, where did I say the word *point* ?


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## KBrownFan

"I state the truth and nobody can do better than go off on me without proving me wrong. Typical. Was Stockton or Payton getting called the next MJ? No... I don't believe they were. BTW, where did I say the word point ?"

Who the heck cares what some TV announcers called the guy.
[strike]Obviously when your biased no amount of "proof" will suffice.[/strike]

He wasn't half the player Mitch Richmond was. Not to mention really good two guards like Drexler. Its called hype...guy rides Shaq's coatails to the playoffs and gets some underserved praise.
We see what kind of player he is...just average. When he went off on his own he sucked.

You can imagine he is better then those Hall of Fame guys..
but you won't convince anyone but yourself. Go to the Portland board or the Golden state board and proclaim Penny was the second best guard. He wasn't even the second best point..well behind guys like Payton and Stockton

Pete

Again, reply to the post, not the poster. This is thread is on the verge of being closed everyone, so play nice, else it will be. ---agoo


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## shiggins

Im a celtic fan. most of the crap that magic is saying is bs, but penny was the 2nd best guard in the league back then. He made all-nba teams, blablabla. He was a hell of a player. KBrown, Penny was better than stockton back in the day. Stockton over the career was better, but for those 2-3 years penny was the man. Also your name.... KBrownfan. Kwame or Kedrick? If its kwame you must be on some crazy ****


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## KBrownFan

<<< Im a celtic fan. most of the crap that magic is saying is bs, but penny was the 2nd best guard in the league back then. He made all-nba teams, blablabla. He was a hell of a player. KBrown, Penny was better than stockton back in the day. Stockton over the career was better, but for those 2-3 years penny was the man. Also your name.... KBrownfan. Kwame or Kedrick? If its kwame you must be on some crazy ****>>>


Question:
We agree back in finals year Shaq was the best Center in the game..right? Now if you agree with that then you also believe that Penny was the 2nd best guard in the game how the heck did they lose in the finals?

Answer:
Penny wasn't as good as your making him out to be. We know Shaq is good. He has gone on to win three titles. Has any of Penny's team even made it out of the first round?

Question: 
How come Penny's best years came when he was on the team with Shaq? Is this just happenstance, or were Penny's stat's inflated by Shaq's prescence.

Answer:
Penny was a solid guard, but Shaq's ability to draw double and triple team greatly inflated his stats. This is evident from his precipitious drop after being seperated from Shaq.

Nick Anderson looked like a pretty good player when Shaq was on the team as well..but that has proven to be a piece of the Shaq effect.

A guy like Mitch Richmond who in 95-96 scored more points then Penny and he was routinely double and sometimes triple teamed. He had to do it all by himself on Sac and GS. Moreover Mitch a much better defender then Penny. Penny is physically weak and get thrown around by strong two guards like Mitch or Paul Pierce.
The guy just isnt that good.

And THAT is why the Magic couldn't win a game in the finals.

Pete


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## The MAgiC

Lol, you try to prove Penny wasn't the 2nd best gaurd, but you instead prove you know nothing about that '95 Magic team. Shaq probably made Penny look better, just like he's making Kobe look better, but the fact of the matter is he was the 2nd best gaurd with Shaq. And to correct a huge mistake you made, Shaq WAS NOT the best center that year. Hakeem absolutely schooled him. HE was the reason we lost, not Penny.


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## KBrownFan

"Lol, you try to prove Penny wasn't the 2nd best gaurd, but you instead prove you know nothing about that '95 Magic team. Shaq probably made Penny look better, just like he's making Kobe look better, but the fact of the matter is he was the 2nd best gaurd with Shaq. And to correct a huge mistake you made, Shaq WAS NOT the best center that year. Hakeem absolutely schooled him. HE was the reason we lost, not Penny."

If Shaq made him look better how do you know he was the second best guard? How do you explain Penny's drop off?

How come Shaq has gone on to win championships while Penny has sucked? Is Kobe that much better then Penny ever was? 

Say for example that Kobe is the second best guard behind T-Mac.
How come Shaq and Kobe can win championships, while Shaq and Penny got shut out?

Come on..you just don't have the answers. Why bother just responding saying over and over "Penny was the second best guard."

You can think what you want..but I think that Mitch Richmond and Shaq could have won it all. Just like Kobe and Shaq are winning now. 

The whole Penny is so great thing..with all his commercials..was just Penny riding Shaq's coatails. Shaq is gone now and so is Penny's career, and despite what you say I don't think that's coincidental. Penny and L.J. will be joining Twan someday in the temporarily overrated hall of fame.

Its no big deal...any team that gets players some court time in the finals has its players WILDLY overrated. See - Tyrone Lue as exhibit A. Many talented players that play for nowhere teams get underatted - see Mitch Richmond exhibit B.

Personally I just thank the Gods that the Celtics didn't make the finals and get swept by the Lakers instead of the Nets. Because then I would have to listen to stories as to how Twan is the second greatest PF in the league. Bleh.

Anyway this argument is over..
Lets agree to disagree..

You can think Penny was the second best guard. And I will admit I was wrong when Penny makes the HOF over GP, Mitch and Stockton. Imagine someone thinking Penny was much better then Stockton...heh.

Pete


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## The MAgiC

You never listen to reason. Shaq and Kobe win championships because Shaq is the most dominant center today and Kobe is good enough to lend a helping hand. Shaq was still young when he was on the Magic and like I said before, he got absolutely schooled by Hakeem. It had nothing to do with Penny. I'm not going to argue with you about something you know nothing about, games you obviously never watched. And you know damn well Penny has gone down hill because of injury. I'm not going to defend the guy, I have no reason to since he's no longer a Magic player. I think he's a whiner who got slightly overrated because of Shaq, but at least I give him what's due. He WAS the 2nd best gaurd, and he doesn't "suck" even today. That's all there is to it. Saying Stockton or other players are better over their career span is rediculous, because we already know that and we aren't talking about careers, were talking about when Penny was on the Magic. And when he was here, he WAS indeed the 2nd best gaurd. I can't even tell if you were even watching the NBA back then. But I'm not gonna argue with someone who obviously doesn't know the way it was and isn't being reasonable. You are overrating Shaq just to underrate Penny. Shaq would not have won the title that year with anyone short of MJ. I personally still have nightmares of Hakeem posterizing Shaq time after time. It was ugly.


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## whiterhino

Penny was inflated by Shaq, he would have been average at best without him and has been since he lost him.


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## aquaitious

Just one more post by me in this topic:

Its a good thing I don't know what I am talking about.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1064395865102502.xml


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## bballin

aqua tha man!


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## RP McMurphy

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> Uhh... same team? Let's see, they added Lue, Gaines, Bogans, Pachulia, Howard, and will have Gooden and Giricek from the beggining of the year (do we have to remind you that the Magic had the 2nd best record in the East with them?). Not exactly the same team. Get your facts straight, then maybe you overrating your team wouldn't be AS bad. The Magic, along with at least 4 other teams, will be better than the Celtics this year. A couple Celtic fans with high hopes won't change that.
> 
> Oh yeah, and Gaines is better than Banks...


I thought this thread deserved a ceremonious bump. How _are_ those new additions to the Magic doing? I heard they were struggling just a wee bit, especially Juwan "I can't play C or SF so I don't start anymore" Howard, Keith "I'm only starting because everyone else at my position sucks" Bogans, and Reece "I'm worse than Jeryl Sasser" Gaines.

Still think Gaines is better than Banks? Is his fantastic size advantage helping him deal with the taller PG's in the league, or does it matter because his shot is so bad he couldn't hit the side of a barn from point blank range? Too early to tell, I guess.


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## mrsister

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> 
> 
> I thought this thread deserved a ceremonious bump. How _are_ those new additions to the Magic doing? I heard they were struggling just a wee bit, especially Juwan "I can't play C or SF so I don't start anymore" Howard, Keith "I'm only starting because everyone else at my position sucks" Bogans, and Reece "I'm worse than Jeryl Sasser" Gaines.
> 
> Still think Gaines is better than Banks? Is his fantastic size advantage helping him deal with the taller PG's in the league, or does it matter because his shot is so bad he couldn't hit the side of a barn from point blank range? Too early to tell, I guess.


Magic fans have been very, very quiet on this board since the season started. The Celtics suck now, but they don't suck as much as the Magic.


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## Big John

Yes, the Magic fans kept saying how Juwan Howard was going to lead them to the promised land. Has Howard EVER appeared in a playoff game?


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## Premier

> Originally posted by <b>mrsister</b>!
> 
> 
> Magic fans have been very, very quiet on this board since the season started. The Celtics suck now, but they don't suck as much as the Magic.


Yeah, remember when all the Magic fans were dissing the Celtics in the offseason. Well, the Celtics are the one with the better record as of now. Although, the east is pathetic


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## whiterhino

> Originally posted by <b>The MAgiC</b>!
> Come on, you Celtics fans always overrate the Celtics while underrating the other teams, but if you're gonna do that, AT LEAST know what you're talking about!
> 
> 
> 
> Uhh... same team? Let's see, they added Lue, Gaines, Bogans, Pachulia, Howard, and will have Gooden and Giricek from the beggining of the year (do we have to remind you that the Magic had the 2nd best record in the East with them?). Not exactly the same team. Get your facts straight, then maybe you overrating your team wouldn't be AS bad. The Magic, along with at least 4 other teams, will be better than the Celtics this year. A couple Celtic fans with high hopes won't change that.
> 
> Oh yeah, and Gaines is better than Banks...



Still think Gaines is better than Banks!!!? Banks is doing AWESOME and getting better every game, he has a long way to go but he's on his way...Gaines = bust. I wasn't just giving you a hard time I scout the players a lot and I knew Gaines was gonna suck in the NBA. Sorry to bring up old posts but this one I just could not resist. Granted both the Magic & Celtics suck as teams right now.


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## 2PacFan4Life

Celtics are gonna win the East. The East sucks and if the Celtics get in the playoffs, they won't be beat until the Finals because they've proven in the past couple years they play well when it really matters. As for the Magic, welllllll, they won't even be there. :rotf:


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## Truth34

*Win the East?*

I'd be happy right now if we won a game.


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## Premier

*Re: Win the East?*



> Originally posted by <b>Truth34</b>!
> I'd be happy right now if we won a game.


Haha. :laugh: Yeah, me too. But, sometime during the season Paul Pierce, Walter McCarty, Tony Battie, and JIm O'Brien will get a clue. Everyone mentioned besides Paul Pierce has the job in jepordy.


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## Truth34

*Walter McCarty*

I find it sad how the Fellowship of the Miserable and Uninformed is calling out Walter McCarty. How can you lay the blame at the feet of a guy getting 11 minutes a game?


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## Big John

McCarty and Battie come in in the middle of the third quarter and the Magic erase an 11 point Celtic lead. Andrew deClerq (remember him?) is eating Battie alive on the boards. Why am I not surprised?


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## Truth34

*You gotta love DeClerq*

The Potapenko trade was one of the worst in team history.


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## Premier

How about the Chauncy Billups trade or the (Dare I say It?) Antoine Walker trade? IMO as of now, those trades were cancer.


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## Truth34

*Uh, I don't think they are even close*

Apparently, 5 other teams didn't think much of Chauncey. I don't think you can judge the Walker trade based on 13 games.


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