# LeBron James: Leadership is my greatest advantage over Kobe



## Unique (Apr 13, 2005)

> 'The Pioneer Leader of Post Jordan' LeBron James (Cleveland) visited Korea to participate in 'Vita500 World Basketball Challenge 2006 and to meet with his fans.
> 
> On August 12th, James was at 'LeBron James Court' donating event in Whee-mun High School of Samsung-dong in Seoul. "I'm happy to see that the students are very pleased," said James. He greeted the fans by saying that he hopes that the students gain inspiration through basketball.
> 
> ...



http://sportsucc.media.daum.net/uccm.../v7717314.html


----------



## Steez (Nov 28, 2002)

That is probably the least advantage you have, if any.
Give the Cavs team that LeBron was playing with to Kobe and we will see where they go.


----------



## Ruff Draft (Nov 21, 2004)

If you put Kobe in his place the Cav's are contenders.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

This is one of the largest misconsceptions on this board. LeBron James team wasnt so much better than the Lakers team, and the give this person that team or this team means nothing as it wont, didnt or wouldnt happen.

They lead in different ways. Thats not an exact knock on Kobe, so dont try and turn in into something its not


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Also the Cavs were a game away from beating Detroit and that was simply an inexperience issue


----------



## Steez (Nov 28, 2002)

BEEZ said:


> This is one of the largest misconsceptions on this board. LeBron James team wasnt so much better than the Lakers team, and the give this person that team or this team means nothing as it wont, didnt or wouldnt happen.
> 
> They lead in different ways. Thats not an exact knock on Kobe, so dont try and turn in into something its not


I understand that, but LeBron hasnt reached Kobes leadership skills just yet. LeBron might be a better leader later on, but at the moment, no.


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

This article is a translation, so it very well could be a misquote. People nowadays think leadership is being "buddy buddy" with everyone. I always responded to harsh criticism from my coaches, and even encouraged them to yell at me if I ****ed up. Too many pansies in sports now who can't take criticism.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Steez said:


> I understand that, but LeBron hasnt reached Kobes leadership skills just yet. LeBron might be a better leader later on, but at the moment, no.


 Honestly your comment doesnt hold alot of merit. Leadership isnt something that you measure with time, you either do or you dont and as I stated they both do in different ways. Theres no such thing as LeBron hasnt met kobe's level of leadership, thats a false statement


----------



## LamarButler (Apr 16, 2005)

The Cavs wouldnt have got that record playing in the West. The Cavs didnt really have much competition in the 1st round either. Phoenix is 12 wins better than Washington.


----------



## Steez (Nov 28, 2002)

BEEZ said:


> Honestly your comment doesnt hold alot of merit. Leadership isnt something that you measure with time, you either do or you dont and as I stated they both do in different ways. Theres no such thing as LeBron hasnt met kobe's level of leadership, thats a false statement


You are right, some people are born with leadership. You can learn leadership though, I do not see why not. Personally, I was not a leader on my team the first couple of years and I learned from others how to lead. Now I am one of the top leaders on my team.


----------



## Bartholomew Hunt (Mar 4, 2003)

Steez said:


> You are right, some people are born with leadership. You can learn leadership though, I do not see why not. Personally, I was not a leader on my team the first couple of years and I learned from others how to lead. Now I am one of the top leaders on my team.


 You're right. I don't buy the statement that leadership cannot be learned. I do believe that there are people who will never be leaders because they just can't "get it". To suggest that certain people can't acquire the mentality is wrong IMO.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

LamarButler said:


> The Cavs wouldnt have got that record playing in the West. The Cavs didnt really have much competition in the 1st round either. Phoenix is 12 wins better than Washington.


 Stop that, they arent in the West and the Lakers arent in the East so its pointless to think along these lines.

Steez and BH I also agree with where you are coming from


----------



## Steez (Nov 28, 2002)

BEEZ is basically just saying that since the Lakers will never go to the East and the Cavs will never go to the west, it is pointless to say those statements. I started it, I apologize.


----------



## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

LeBron plays in the East, side by side with an All-Star (Big Z) and another potential All-Star Larry Hughes, Kobe??? who??? Kwame Brown ??? haha 
so as played out as it is...its true...give Kobe LeBrons team and they would probably make it to the finals......


----------



## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

Big Z played like he wasnt even there in the detroit series, and where was larry hughes? LeBron carried his team, and the kid is only 21 and is being compared with kobe's leadership, thats not bad.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

ElMarroAfamado said:


> LeBron plays in the East, side by side with an All-Star (Big Z) and another potential All-Star Larry Hughes, Kobe??? who??? Kwame Brown ??? haha
> so as played out as it is...its true...give Kobe LeBrons team and they would probably make it to the finals......


 and you guys had Odom and a game Smush Parker, that said once again, please be logical neither one has the other's team so why even speak on it?


----------



## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

_*Can't wait for Kobe dunk on LeBron*_

:bsmile:


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Both lead in different ways. The same way Kobe may be too hard on his teammates sometimes, LeBron can be too much of a pushover sometimes. I don't think either of them are great _leaders_ in the most common meaning of the word, but both are great enough basketball players to where their teammates respect them a great amount. Having that kind of respect makes it pretty easy to be a good leader.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Both lead in different ways. The same way Kobe may be too hard on his teammates sometimes, LeBron can be too much of a pushover sometimes. I don't think either of them are great _leaders_ in the most common meaning of the word, but both are great enough basketball players to where their teammates respect them a great amount. Having that kind of respect makes it pretty easy to be a good leader.


 totally agree


----------



## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Both lead in different ways. The same way Kobe may be too hard on his teammates sometimes, LeBron can be too much of a pushover sometimes. I don't think either of them are great _leaders_ in the most common meaning of the word, but both are great enough basketball players to where their teammates respect them a great amount. Having that kind of respect makes it pretty easy to be a good leader.


Agree with that as well, is this the first time we agreed on something? :angel:


----------



## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

Bartholomew Hunt said:


> You're right. I don't buy the statement that leadership cannot be learned. I do believe that there are people who will never be leaders because they just can't "get it". To suggest that certain people can't acquire the mentality is wrong IMO.


i agree with you guys too. 

thinking that you are only born with a certain skill is probably the main reason why people fail. your personality can be changed to whatever you want it to be. honestly, i think kobe's a decent leader but not good enough yet. i think this upcoming season, he will improve upon last year a bit and try to get the team more involved.


----------



## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Lebron James a leader? He is so ****ing full of himself. All it takes is Andres Nocioni saying "So, I have a gold medal, want me to show it to you after the game." to throw him off, he's a mentally weak player, and mentally weak players aren't leaders.


----------



## Shady* (Jul 3, 2005)

Unique said:


> http://sportsucc.media.daum.net/uccm.../v7717314.html


You left a "..." in the URL.


----------



## Q8i (Oct 23, 2004)

Lynx said:


> _*Can't wait for Kobe dunk on LeBron*_
> 
> :bsmile:


What Is That Gon' Prove?


----------



## DaBruins (Jul 30, 2003)

BEEZ said:


> and you guys had Odom and a game Smush Parker, that said once again, please be logical neither one has the other's team so why even speak on it?


Smush is garbage.

i'm really glad Lebron said this (although he'll probably say the quote was a misunderstanding). Kobe could use the extra motivation from a guy like Lebron.


----------



## Laker Freak (Jul 1, 2003)

I think if there is one thing that seperates Kobe from James it's Kobe's leadership ability.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Oh Boy Lebron done set it off, well lets do it Lebron versus Kobe. 

I really wish lebron would accomplish something 1st before he spoke on such things. You can't let your words outpace your accomplishments. he gets annoited the league and hasn't won anything, he couldn't even win in the Worlds yet he's talking. There are experts criticizing his play at the Worlds saying he may have been exposed in some things in his game. 

I'm not real mad at him coming at Kobe though. You gotta be a competitor. I'd rather him have spoke on Kobe's game than something thats to premature to measure. 

Lebron hasn't led his team anywhere yet. 

The cavs had better talent than the Lakers this past season and I'd suspect Kobe would have taken the cavs further. Kobe's a better player and more experienced at this point. Kobe's been in the league 10 years, He's seen and done it all and has been where Lebron wants to go. You can't creaee experience where there is none. Lebron hasn't reached his prime yet. Kobe is there now and been there for a few years. 

Lebron MIGHT surpass Kobe as a player eventually but you gotta accomplish things and close the holes in your game 1st Kobe has already. 

One area I don't think Lebron will ever be better than Kobe us defensively, I think his size and lack of great lateral stepslide quickness will prevent him from ever becoming a good defender. Right now he rests on defense alot. 

I think at this point Kobe's a better leader and player. 

Lebron has a chance to be the greatest to ever play BUT he's gonna have to EARN it and accomplish things and not talk it into being,he has't even faced any proffesional adversity teamwise or player wise but he's going to every great player does. Then we'll see about his leadership ability.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Kobe will dominate James in this up coming seasons head to head match ups.

LeBron needs to worry about LeBron. LeBron's stock has fallen so much since the world championships where he was just average over all, and clanked way to many free throws, and turned the ball over way to much. This is LeBrons second 3rd rate finish when it comes to world play. Not exactly stellar superstar performances.

The LeBronze joke is not only a reality now, but it's turning into a prophecy at this rate.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

If alienating your teammates is a quality of a leader, then sure Kobe is a better leader than Bron


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

23AJ said:


> Kobe will dominate James in this up coming seasons head to head match ups.
> 
> LeBron needs to worry about LeBron. LeBron's stock has fallen so much since the world championships where he was just average over all, and clanked way to many free throws, and turned the ball over way to much. This is LeBrons second 3rd rate finish when it comes to world play. Not exactly stellar superstar performances.


 Kobe hasn't "dominated" Lebron and Lebron hasnt dominated Kobe and LeBron will be a year older, so how do you come to such a conclusion? All of a sudden he will stop playing good against Kobe?


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

BEEZ said:


> Kobe hasn't "dominated" Lebron and Lebron hasnt dominated Kobe and LeBron will be a year older, so how do you come to such a conclusion?


It's called an opinion.

Also This up coming season will be how I come to the conclusion, just sit back, and watch the games. IMO Kobe was better then James last year, and will be only better this year. Kobe is a much better defender, and better scorer, and better leader. I'm sure you love that LeBron leadership on this years USA team. The guy was steallar out there, he really took the team by the reigns and lead them to victory.

I'm sure you don't see it that way, but I probably think Kobe is a much better over all superior talent then you. IMO Kobe is the best player in the world.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

23AJ said:


> It's called an opinion.
> 
> Also This up coming season will be how I come to the conclusion, just sit back, and watch the games. IMO Kobe was better then James last year, and will be only better this year. Kobe is a much better defender, and better scorer, and better leader. I'm sure you love that LeBron leadership on this years USA team. The guy was steallar out there, he really took the team by the reigns and lead them to victory.
> 
> I'm sure you don't see it that way, but I probably think Kobe is a much better over all superior talent then you. IMO Kobe is the best player in the world.


 Its impossible for you to stay on one particular point when it comes to your hatred for Lebron James? And if its not, thats what it comes off as. I have constantly said that Kobe is better, and in any of my posts when these 2 have come up I have said so, so sorry you cant lump me or classify me as such. You are right, you are entitled to your opinion as every man is, but you also have to take into account the past, and the past doesnt say what you are saying will happen, because of these 2 guys history of playing against each other.


----------



## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Both lead in different ways. The same way Kobe may be too hard on his teammates sometimes, LeBron can be too much of a pushover sometimes. I don't think either of them are great _leaders_ in the most common meaning of the word, but both are great enough basketball players to where their teammates respect them a great amount. Having that kind of respect makes it pretty easy to be a good leader.


Agreed :cheers:


----------



## Dre (Jun 20, 2003)

Inherited to lead? I like Lebron, but damn, he's falling too much into the "King James" hype.


----------



## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

Lets just end this right now.

I think that Lebron has good leadership skills and Lebron has a right *to state* his opinion but I believe that this statement of his is a bit premature and also insulting. BH could be right though, some of Lebron's statments could have been taken out of content. If what is said in this article is exactly true then what I would ask Lebron his how do you measure leadership? How can you be sure that you have more leadership than any player? I hope he is not basing this by wins because losses may have nothing to do with leadership (Think about the Timberwolves, which I still believe has a very good leadership player, Kevin Garnett. But they're still losing). Unfortunately, Leadership alone cannot ensure wins and a playoff birth. Now Lebron may have conclude this by how his players respond to him and show respect both on the court and off. But while that can justify Lebron's own view of leadership, that does not make him any better than other players (In this case Kobe) since he and most people not involved with the Lakers have no idea fully how the teamates feel and respect Kobe. It's possible that He could also be caught up in hype (I really hope not though). Lebron has been looked at as a good leader since his first game in the game. He has met and beat every challenge that the media threw at him and that could have finally gotten to his head along with the hype that Kobe has a major leadership issue.

Whatever the reason may be, for him to state this is wrong. A players's talent and potential can be observe and studied respectedly, but when it comes to Leadership and how well one affects his teams' play (Like MVP and 'who makes their teammmates better') there is just too many technicalities, inside situations, and unknowns for anybodyto say that they are better than another.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

The One said:


> Lets just end this right now.
> 
> I think that Lebron has good leadership skills and Lebron has a right *to state* his opinion but I believe that this statement of his is a bit premature and also insulting. BH could be right though, some of Lebron's statments could have been taken out of content. If what is said in this article is exactly true then what I would ask Lebron his how do you measure leadership? How can you be sure that you have more leadership than any player? I hope he is not basing this by wins because losses may have nothing to do with leadership (Think about the Timberwolves, which I still believe has a very good leadership player, Kevin Garnett. But they're still losing). Unfortunately, Leadership alone cannot ensure wins and a playoff birth. Now Lebron may have conclude this by how his players respond to him and show respect both on the court and off. But while that can justify Lebron's own view of leadership, that does not make him any better than other players (In this case Kobe) since he and most people not involved with the Lakers have no idea fully how the teamates feel and respect Kobe. It's possible that He could also be caught up in hype (I really hope not though). Lebron has been looked at as a good leader since his first game in the game. He has met and beat every challenge that the media threw at him and that could have finally gotten to his head along with the hype that Kobe has a major leadership issue.
> 
> Whatever the reason may be, for him to state this is wrong. A players's talent and potential can be observe and studied respectedly, but when it comes to Leadership and how well one affects his teams' play (Like MVP and 'who makes their teammmates better') there is just too many technicalities, inside situations, and unknowns for anybodyto say that they are better than another.


 Perfect post, the one


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

The One said:


> Lets just end this right now.
> 
> I think that Lebron has good leadership skills and Lebron has a right *to state* his opinion but I believe that this statement of his is a bit premature and also insulting. BH could be right though, some of Lebron's statments could have been taken out of content. If what is said in this article is exactly true then what I would ask Lebron his how do you measure leadership? How can you be sure that you have more leadership than any player? I hope he is not basing this by wins because losses may have nothing to do with leadership (Think about the Timberwolves, which I still believe has a very good leadership player, Kevin Garnett. But they're still losing). Unfortunately, Leadership alone cannot ensure wins and a playoff birth. Now Lebron may have conclude this by how his players respond to him and show respect both on the court and off. But while that can justify Lebron's own view of leadership, that does not make him any better than other players (In this case Kobe) since he and most people not involved with the Lakers have no idea fully how the teamates feel and respect Kobe. It's possible that He could also be caught up in hype (I really hope not though). Lebron has been looked at as a good leader since his first game in the game. He has met and beat every challenge that the media threw at him and that could have finally gotten to his head along with the hype that Kobe has a major leadership issue.
> 
> Whatever the reason may be, for him to state this is wrong. A players's talent and potential can be observe and studied respectedly, but when it comes to Leadership and how well one affects his teams' play (Like MVP and 'who makes their teammmates better') there is just too many technicalities, inside situations, and unknowns for anybodyto say that they are better than another.


Agreed to a point but to list leadership as your defining edge over Kobe when you haven't accomplished anything is stupid. 

lebron has been annoited alot and I'd question how much he actually leads at his age. Leaders are born out of experience most times I think its likely he's his teams best player but not its leader very similar to Wade. Wade is the Heats best player but Shaq and Alonzo are probably the leaders. 

Lebron i think has been forced by the media to BE the teams leader when his teammates may not be ready to take his leadership. I think experience and accomplishment can mold a good leader. 

You're only as good a leader really as the people being led allow you to be . 

Tiger Woods recently mentioned that despite being a phenom at an early age on the PGA Tour, yet in his 1st few Ryder Cups he didn't take a leadership role because others with more experience deserved to be leaders, he said NOW tha he's one of the more veteran guys he feels comfortable being a leader. He said stepping in early and trying to be a leader would have been a mistake.

I think what he said was right.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

BEEZ said:


> Its impossible for you to stay on one particular point when it comes to your hatred for Lebron James? And if its not, thats what it comes off as. I have constantly said that Kobe is better, and in any of my posts when these 2 have come up I have said so, so sorry you cant lump me or classify me as such. You are right, you are entitled to your opinion as every man is, but you also have to take into account the past, and the past doesnt say what you are saying will happen, because of these 2 guys history of playing against each other.


My hatred for LeBron James? No Beez you're wrong there if thats how you take it. I have a life, family, job, and respect for human's in general to ever be get caught up in hate. However the word hate is thrown around here on bbb.net so frequently, and easily that I guess you can go ahead and imply my dislike for LeBrons over all game, and me pointing out his numerous weakness's as a basketball player as hatred. Yet I do notice that when I use the same criteria, and point out the same weaknesses in other players nobody calls it hate.

Moving on in your post..I never said anywhere you didn't think Kobe wasn't the better player. Also I'm not trying to lump you in with anyone. My point is simply that I believe Kobe is superior to LeBron James right now, and I don't find them very close at all. LeBron has a lot more to learn before I ever feel like this guy LeBron will come out dominate your favorite team, and leave you amazed, and worried the next time you have to face him. No sorry LeBron doesn't have that prescence yet.(at least to me) Kobe does.

If you go back, and read through the posts. You quoted me bacuse you took exception with me saying that _Kobe will dominate James in this up coming seasons head to head match ups._

IMO Kobe had the vintage great Kobe plays against LeBron James. LeBron didn't stand out nearly as much to me in the two games I saw the Cavs/Lakers play last season. Even in the game the Lakers lost to the Cavs, it was Kobe's plays that I remember most.

Now in the game the Lakers did win on TNT. The last several plays where Kobe sunk jump shot after jump shot over LeBron and the Cavs at the end of the game to win was vintage clutch Kobe Bryant ala A few seasons ago against the Trail Blazers.

One thing I have noticed is that history is a good point of reference, but that doesn't mean LeBron will be as good or better then Kobe this up coming season. So we can agree to disagree. That's fine if you believe from what you've seen from LeBron this summer he will be even better, and on page with Bryant. And I will continue to believe Bryant is superior to James, based on my own eyeball test of watching these players head to head, and over all last season.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

23AJ said:


> My hatred for LeBron James? No Beez you're wrong there if thats how you take it. I have a life, family, job, and respect for human's in general to ever be get caught up in hate. However the word hate is thrown around here on bbb.net so frequently, and easily that I guess you can go ahead and imply my dislike for LeBrons over all game, and me pointing out his numerous weakness's as a basketball player as hatred. Yet I do notice that when I use the same criteria, and point out the same weaknesses in other players nobody calls it hate.
> 
> Moving on in your post..I never said anywhere you didn't think Kobe wasn't the better player. Also I'm not trying to lump you in with anyone. My point is simply that I believe Kobe is superior to LeBron James right now, and I don't find them very close at all. LeBron has a lot more to learn before I ever feel like this guy LeBron will come out dominate your favorite team, and leave you amazed, and worried the next time you have to face him. No sorry LeBron doesn't have that prescence yet.(at least to me) Kobe does.
> 
> ...


 Of course you would remember Kobe plays because you imply that hes your favorite player. That said I agree that Kobe is a better player than LeBron, not superior but better and that the gap will close a little bit more because LeBron will be a year older. 

I will get flamed for this and I know it , Kobe is superior defensively, I give you that, but what has Kobe accomplished sans Shaq that LeBron has accomplished in his 3 years in the league, it would appear quite close. I didnt say it was, I said it would appear that they're careers are quite even, since Kobe hasnt had Shaq. Yes?


----------



## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

Q8i said:


> What Is That Gon' Prove?


...that Kobe 'Bean' is the King of Basketball. :wink:


----------



## Steez (Nov 28, 2002)

I agree with what everyone has to say.

My personal opinion is that what LeBron said was very premature (as stated by The One). He is starting to believe his own hype too much and should not state something like that. Leadership skills, I would pick Kobe anyday of the year to lead my team, his intensity and leadership skills remind me of Michael Jordan (hate to bring up the MJ/KB comparision but yea).

LeBron may win a championship before Kobe wins it again, they might both not win anymore. But Lebron still has alot to prove before he can be compared to Kobes leadership skills.


----------



## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

LeBron will win plenty of rings, kobe wont win another one without an all-star calibur player on his team.


----------



## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

Pain5155 said:


> LeBron will win plenty of rings, kobe wont win another one without an all-star calibur player on his team.


You shouldn't make it seem like your stating a fact. =/


----------



## Steez (Nov 28, 2002)

Pain5155 said:


> LeBron will win plenty of rings, kobe wont win another one without an all-star calibur player on his team.


I believe Odom is All Star caliber.


----------



## Shady* (Jul 3, 2005)

Someone fix the damn URL!


----------



## Steez (Nov 28, 2002)

Shady* said:


> Someone fix the damn URL!



ummm?
Shady, you so shady!


----------



## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

Born with leadership? No such thing. Leaders are created, never born. LeBron is a great talent but it ends there. Kobe Bryant or Tim Duncan, nobody else is there.


----------



## Hiro! (Sep 10, 2006)

leadership lost its true meaning long time ago, nowadays you have a young player helping his team to a playoff berth winning one or two series and its automatically assumed that leadership is in place.

talk about leadership i still think of magic johnson and some of the old school players, they embody the definitive meaning of leadership. kobe showed great leadership in the playoffs last season though, the way he stepped up to his teammates and especially the way he adjusted his game for team glory was undeniable.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Hiro! said:


> leadership lost its true meaning long time ago, nowadays you have a young player helping his team to a playoff berth winning one or two series and its automatically assumed that leadership is in place.
> 
> talk about leadership i still think of magic johnson and some of the old school players, they embody the definitive meaning of leadership. kobe showed great leadership in the playoffs last season though, the way he stepped up to his teammates and especially the way he adjusted his game for team glory was undeniable.


 Im glad you mention that, did LeBron not do the same?


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

BEEZ said:


> Of course you would remember Kobe plays because you imply that hes your favorite player. That said I agree that Kobe is a better player than LeBron, not superior but better and that the gap will close a little bit more because LeBron will be a year older.
> 
> I will get flamed for this and I know it , Kobe is superior defensively, I give you that, but what has Kobe accomplished sans Shaq that LeBron has accomplished in his 3 years in the league, it would appear quite close. I didnt say it was, I said it would appear that they're careers are quite even, since Kobe hasnt had Shaq. Yes?


You're right in that what Kobe does means more to me then what LeBron does on the basketball court. So it's going to probably make a bigger impression on me. However Kobe has truly earned the praise I'm giving him these days in the sense that I haven't always been a die hard Kobe fan, or what may come across as a Kobe Homer to some on here. Kobe's play on the court last season won me over. What Kobe did last season changed my perspective of him, and made me a fan that cheers for him even in the raw raw raw kind of way. I'm already looking forward to when the Lakers come, and play in Portland.

Kobe is the better defender. And yes I would agree that the last two seasons Kobe/LeBron have been close to even as far as stats go. However as far as prescence/desire/passion/intimidation LeBron doesn't meassure up to Kobe.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Pain5155 said:


> LeBron will win plenty of rings, kobe wont win another one without an all-star calibur player on his team.


Can I borrow your crystal ball since you got it all figured out.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

BEEZ said:


> Of course you would remember Kobe plays because you imply that hes your favorite player. That said I agree that Kobe is a better player than LeBron, not superior but better and that the gap will close a little bit more because LeBron will be a year older.
> 
> I will get flamed for this and I know it , Kobe is superior defensively, I give you that, but what has Kobe accomplished sans Shaq that LeBron has accomplished in his 3 years in the league, it would appear quite close. I didnt say it was, I said it would appear that they're careers are quite even, since Kobe hasnt had Shaq. Yes?


What does Shaq not being with Kobe have to do with anything. His career didn't start 2 years ago, but some people act as if Kobe's career is voided when he played with Shaq so I guess Wade's career is voided until Shaq leaves. 

Kobe has already proved the haters wrong by having the best season of a scorer in 20 years this past season . 

He was great with Shaq and he's great without.

Kobe's did great things in leading the Lakers some of the years when Shaq was on board. Kobe was the teams leading scorer and leading assist guy some years that Shaq was here but gets overlooked because Shaq was at his dominanat best. but he didn't carry Kobe around. Kobe made most of the big plays either by scoring or by pass. Shaq was a legend and maybe more of the reason we won but Kobe was right there with him in greatness. 

SO NO Lebron hasn't done the things Kobe has done becase you have to look at the entire career not just 2 years. Let me know when lebron accomplishes something great. Which I suspect he might but it'll happen and not be talked about as if its inevitable.


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

LOL I am going through this posts and I see people comparing Kobe to TD as a leader. This was the same Kobe that decided he wouldnt shoot anymore just to get a point across to his teammates. Didnt Odom complain about this same guy. Maybe I should find that article Chucky Atkins had on Kobe. Too bad Phil Jackson flip flops so much or his account of kobe might have gone into consideration.

Personally I would say the mark of a true leader is to make those arround you better. Who exactly has Kobe made better on that team?


----------



## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

HB said:


> LOL I am going through this posts and I see people comparing Kobe to TD as a leader. This was the same Kobe that decided he wouldnt shoot anymore just to get a point across to his teammates. Didnt Odom complain about this same guy. Maybe I should find that article Chucky Atkins had on Kobe. Too bad Phil Jackson flip flops so much or his account of kobe might have gone into consideration.
> 
> Personally I would say the mark of a true leader is to make those arround you better. Who exactly has Kobe made better on that team?


 If the mark of a great leader is making your teamates better, then Kobe is one of the best ever, with him Kwame, Chucky, Lamar, Walton, Cook, Smush, Sasha, Mihm, and others have had career seasons.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

jazzy1 said:


> What does Shaq not being with Kobe have to do with anything. His career didn't start 2 years ago, but some people act as if Kobe's career is voided when he played with Shaq so I guess Wade's career is voided until Shaq leaves.
> 
> Kobe has already proved the haters wrong by having the best season of a scorer in 20 years this past season .
> 
> ...


 Please read what I wrote correctly, I didnt say it negated anything, I said take into account what hes done while he hasnt been with Shaq, which holds weight because those teams were Shaq's teams and he was the leader of those teams. We weren't talking about Kobe's greatness which is apparent, we were talking about his leadership.Nothing I said was out of the ordinary as its a legit comparison. And lets be real about some things. Kobe had a great scoring season at a shaed over 35 pts, but he also shot 45%. Which pales to Jordan in 86-87 at 37 pts a game shooting at 48% or 87-88 at 54% and 35 a game or even 89-90 when he scored 33.6 pts a game at 53% with better all around stats than Kobe. Please lets not make this something that its not, Kobe is the best player in the league bar none,


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

BEEZ said:


> Please read what I wrote correctly, I didnt say it negated anything, I said take into account what hes done while he hasnt been with Shaq, which holds weight because those teams were Shaq's teams and he was the leader of those teams. We weren't talking about Kobe's greatness which is apparent, we were talking about his leadership.Nothing I said was out of the ordinary as its a legit comparison. And lets be real about some things. Kobe had a great scoring season at a shaed over 35 pts, but he also shot 45%. Which pales to Jordan in 86-87 at 37 pts a game shooting at 48% or 87-88 at 54% and 35 a game or even 89-90 when he scored 33.6 pts a game at 53% with better all around stats than Kobe. Please lets not make this something that its not, Kobe is the best player in the league bar none,


This ain't geeked up fantasy bball. We're talking real life here. This new fg% diagnosis thats become popular the last few years is very amusing what does it have to do with anything, I can name a 100 scrubs who shoot higher fg% than Kobe does so what does it mean. As I said he had the best season of a scorer in 20 years I said nothing of MJ and his numbers because it was meant as a critique of Kobe's greatness in compared to todays talent not MJ so yes it was a great season, he dropped 81 something MJ never did in those seasons and Kobe dropped 62 in 3 quarters in something MJ never did. But thats means about the same of your stat analysis by bringing up Mj numbers NOTHING. 

When did fg% become a scale to measure the greatness of a player, I've never heard it brought up in comparison's with say Bird and magic, Dr.J and Dominique yet you act as if that validates MJ's season over Kobe when we're talking 3-4 pts. Wade shoots a higher fg % than Kobe but no one thinks Wade is a better shooter because the majority of shots he takes are closer to the basket. As Kobe and as MJ have said you can have different roles on different teams thats why stats are misleading on the 35 ppg season MJ had he was the teams pg so he would have more assists, Kobe was asked to be the scorer while odom handle ball distribution duties BUT in Shaq years he had high assist numbers. 

I'm not a new school let the numbers tell you something about a player I can see with my own eyes whats what and Kobe's season was the best of a scorer in 20 years since MJ so he's RIGHT there with MJ's best seasons RIGHT THERE. 

Again you don't get how it negates Kobe's career by basing a comparion of a guys 10 years and reduces it to 2 years because of who he played with which doesn't mean anything. 

MJ was below .500 for his career without Pippen does that mean that his leadership is drawn into question because he didn't have Pippen around does his career reasonate less , he was surely the leader of the team in those years as well so does that make him an inferior leader, NO, does he compare to Kobe in that instance when Kobe had his team over .500 in one of those years. 

Kobe was the pg of those teams with Shaq doesn't that require leadership. 

I think you and others are confusing what exactly leadership is. As far as I'm concerned there's nothing statistical that lends it self to a comparison of who's a better leader.


----------



## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

thug_immortal8 said:


> If the mark of a great leader is making your teamates better, then Kobe is one of the best ever, with him Kwame, Chucky, Lamar, Walton, Cook, Smush, Sasha, Mihm, and others have had career seasons.


lol. Very technical......but a good argument nonetheless:biggrin:


----------



## The One (Jul 10, 2005)

HB said:


> LOL I am going through this posts and I see people comparing Kobe to TD as a leader. This was the same Kobe that decided he wouldnt shoot anymore just to get a point across to his teammates. Didnt Odom complain about this same guy. Maybe I should find that article Chucky Atkins had on Kobe. Too bad Phil Jackson flip flops so much or his account of kobe might have gone into consideration.
> 
> Personally I would say the mark of a true leader is to make those arround you better. Who exactly has Kobe made better on that team?


This post was fine until you threw out the old cliche of 'Making teammates better' 


I'll tell you what, though; Your right. Kobe has had alot of showings of poor leadership in his first season without out Shaq and with situations that involve leaders, history is always taken into account. That's why it may be awhile before I can begin to classiffy Kobe as a *great* leader.....like Tim Duncan. But this thread was about Lebron's statement which was him stating (according to the article) that he feels that his *advantage* over Kobe is leadership. That is what we should be responding to only and not trying justify Kobe's case because appearantly this thread got to personal for Kobe fans. They eventualy began to defend Kobe only as if LeBron's statement was an attack (I can't blame them, though, because they had to endure the entire Shaq feud). 

That's why I tried to end this earlier saying that whatever the reason maybe, it's best not to Publicly set levels on different players with characteristics involving Leadership and 'third person' impact' because there is just to many of things that can alter perception. So the only people that can and should rate leadership skills of a player is *1.* The Player Himself *2.* The _existing_ Coach of the player *3.* The _existing_ Teammate(s) of the Player. Nobody else.

That's where I felt Lebron went wrong. He _was_ only rating himself when he said that he felt he was inhearited to lead, but he publicly _put a rank_ on Kobe Bryant by stating that he has an advantege over Bryant in Leadership Skills which (IMO) is not right in this type of occupation (or definitely ones that are highly Media infuenced).

So will somebody now close this thread now........:angel:


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

jazzy1 said:


> This ain't geeked up fantasy bball. We're talking real life here. This new fg% diagnosis thats become popular the last few years is very amusing what does it have to do with anything, I can name a 100 scrubs who shoot higher fg% than Kobe does so what does it mean. As I said he had the best season of a scorer in 20 years I said nothing of MJ and his numbers because it was meant as a critique of Kobe's greatness in compared to todays talent not MJ so yes it was a great season, he dropped 81 something MJ never did in those seasons and Kobe dropped 62 in 3 quarters in something MJ never did. But thats means about the same of your stat analysis by bringing up Mj numbers NOTHING.
> 
> When did fg% become a scale to measure the greatness of a player, I've never heard it brought up in comparison's with say Bird and magic, Dr.J and Dominique yet you act as if that validates MJ's season over Kobe when we're talking 3-4 pts. Wade shoots a higher fg % than Kobe but no one thinks Wade is a better shooter because the majority of shots he takes are closer to the basket. As Kobe and as MJ have said you can have different roles on different teams thats why stats are misleading on the 35 ppg season MJ had he was the teams pg so he would have more assists, Kobe was asked to be the scorer while odom handle ball distribution duties BUT in Shaq years he had high assist numbers.
> 
> ...


 Honestly you have gone and taken this post into an entire different category and I honestly lost your point, but I will agree with your final point where nothing statistical lends to one being a better leader.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

BEEZ said:


> Honestly you have gone and taken this post into an entire different category and I honestly lost your point, but I will agree with your final point where nothing statistical lends to one being a better leader.


Oh come now don't say that when you brought into play MJ's season's compared to Kobe when in fact I was mentioning Kobe's season being the best in 20 years SINCE MJ, so please lets not do the old he's changing subject game. Just answering what you said.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

jazzy1 said:


> Oh come now don't say that when you brought into play MJ's season's compared to Kobe when in fact I was mentioning Kobe's season being the best in 20 years SINCE MJ, so please lets not do the old he's changing subject game. Just answering what you said.


 Not at all, you explicitly listed that FG% means nothing, and you brought up the fact of him scoring 81 and 62 in 3 quarters to strengthen your point. I understand that, but just the same as you are negating Kobe's FG5 not meaning much then it was no point to go any further with this debate. I said you went off in another direction with your post and the direction it was going in was not what my initial debate was thats all.


----------



## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

BEEZ said:


> Not at all, you explicitly listed that FG% means nothing, and you brought up the fact of him scoring 81 and 62 in 3 quarters to strengthen your point. I understand that, but just the same as you are negating Kobe's FG5 not meaning much then it was no point to go any further with this debate. I said you went off in another direction with your post and the direction it was going in was not what my initial debate was thats all.


I'm Not saying fg% means nothing I just don't think I need to compare the fg% of great players to determine who the better player is. What they do on the court will show me plenty.

Kobe's huge season and big games as I mentioned were something even MJ never accomplished. 

Why you mentioned Mj's season is beyond me when we were talking about something else, maybe you were trying to say Kobe's huge season was not that big of a deal but as I mentioned it was the best in 20 years which makes it a bigger deal.


----------

