# Iverson on Kobe



## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

If any of you watched the SA vs HOU game there was a snippet interview with iverson talkin about kobe. he was saying stuff like: "look what happened when they traded away the best player in the world. now he facing double teams every night and has to do it all by himself. now he knows what Ibeen going through my whole career. Now its time to see how much of a man he is. time to see what he is made of." and it sounded like it had a bit of malice in his voice. seems like Kobe has something to be hyped up for this game. no doubt he will try to do something like viciously swat A.I. or somethin. but he cant guard AI so he better watch dem ankles


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## SixersFan (Dec 19, 2004)

I can't wait for this game. It's going to be GOOD.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Iverson is Shaq's buddy, these comments are not surprising.


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Iverson is Shaq's buddy, these comments are not surprising.



... But they are true.

(I saw that snippet. AI has no respect for Kobe and he never has, never even pretended to have.)


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Its not just me, most of the L hates Kobe too.


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

R-Star said:


> Its not just me, most of the L hates Kobe too.


That is true. But, there has to be something said about his "I don't care if you do hate me attitude; take that!" The guy is made of ..... (?)

I don't know if that is good or bad for his immature pysche.


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## Banjoriddim (Aug 14, 2004)

> Its not just me, most of the L hates Kobe too.


  

I dislike Kobe as a person too and he may be considered selfish, but what's your point in contecst of this thread?


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Dynasty Raider said:


> ... But they are true.


No, Shaq is not the best player in the world, and no, this situation doesn't prove how much of a "man" Kobe is. Iverson is just making justifications for why Kobe is a better player than him, and insulting his teammates at the same time.


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

i hope they are up against each other for most of the game. there definitely will be a lil personal business there.


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

Dynasty Raider said:


> That is true. But, there has to be something said about his "I don't care if you do hate me attitude; take that!" The guy is made of ..... (?)
> 
> I don't know if that is good or bad for his immature pysche.


If it is kobe u talkin about, he does care iff ppl hate him.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Banjoriddim said:


> I dislike Kobe as a person too and he may be considered selfish, but what's your point in contecst of this thread?


To point out that pretty much everyone outside of Lakers fans hate Kobe because of his cocky attitude, ball hogging, Im the next comming of Jesus ways.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> No, Shaq is not the best player in the world, and no, this situation doesn't prove how much of a "man" Kobe is. Iverson is just making justifications for why Kobe is a better player than him, and insulting his teammates at the same time.


Kobe and Iverson are on the same level IMO, Iverson just learned to pass the ball, and thats why I respect him a hell of alot more than Kobe.


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## Banjoriddim (Aug 14, 2004)

> To point out that pretty much everyone outside of Lakers fans hate Kobe because of his cocky attitude, ball hogging, Im the next comming of Jesus ways.


I was just pointing that this thread was about Iverson's opinion on Kobe and that you are turning it into abstract critisism on Kobe.

It doesen't mean that I don't agree with your description generally.


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## Burn (Feb 2, 2003)

Sir Patchwork said:


> No, Shaq is not the best player in the world, and no, this situation doesn't prove how much of a "man" Kobe is. Iverson is just making justifications for why Kobe is a better player than him, and insulting his teammates at the same time.



Nah, I think he's just explaining what all but the blind have already accepted. Kobe's advantages over Iverson were better shooting percentages, less turnovers, and a better team record, and all those advantages magically disappeared when Shaq left.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

duncan2k5 said:


> If it is kobe u talkin about, he does care iff ppl hate him.


How the hell do you know? The only basis you might have for that statement was the ASG where Kobe got booed and was upset about it. You might be forgetting that that was like 3 or 4 years ago. I'm sure he's gotten used to the hate he receives today and he probably doesn't care about most of it anymore.

Does he care if the people of LA hate him? Well if they did, he would. Does he care if other NBA fans hate him? Hell no.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Damian Necronamous said:


> How the hell do you know? The only basis you might have for that statement was the ASG where Kobe got booed and was upset about it. You might be forgetting that that was like 3 or 4 years ago. I'm sure he's gotten used to the hate he receives today and he probably doesn't care about most of it anymore.
> 
> Does he care if the people of LA hate him? Well if they did, he would. Does he care if other NBA fans hate him? Hell no.


I would care if the rest of the world saw me as a whinny, crybaby punk.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

AI spitting truth.


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

Burn said:


> Nah, I think he's just explaining what all but the blind have already accepted. Kobe's advantages over Iverson were better shooting percentages, less turnovers, and a better team record, and all those advantages magically disappeared when Shaq left.



ummm..... last time i checked kobe still shoots a higher percentage, still turns the ball over less, and their team records all things held equal are relatively the same given conference strength.


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## Burn (Feb 2, 2003)

And if you had checked a month ago Kobe was averaging more turnovers and was shoooting a worse percentage. "All things held equal" their FG percentages and turnovers are about the same. If you don't believe me post where they're ranked respectively in the league in those categories, otherwise, shut the hell up.

p.s. ummmmmmmm


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## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

Sir Patchwork said:


> No, Shaq is not the best player in the world, and no, this situation doesn't prove how much of a "man" Kobe is. Iverson is just making justifications for why Kobe is a better player than him, and insulting his teammates at the same time.


 I agree with you that Duncan is the best, even though Shaq is the most dominant...but Iverson's right in the sense that now we can really see what Kobe is made of when teams start to give him all their defensive attention, something that guys like Iverson, Vinsanity and McGrady have had to live with for years and years. The fact of the matter is that his shooting percentages are down at the levels where AI has been taking the heat for years and he's also turning the ball over as much as AI does so the big picture is that he's on the same level as all those guys, but that's just my opinion. See this is what happens when the most dominant player in history isn't clogging up the lane for you anymore and you don't get any of those open looks like you used to. Have fun Kobe.


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

Burn said:


> And if you had checked a month ago Kobe was averaging more turnovers and was shoooting a worse percentage. "All things held equal" their FG percentages and turnovers are about the same. If you don't believe me post where they're ranked respectively in the league in those categories, otherwise, shut the hell up.
> 
> p.s. ummmmmmmm



do you want me to pull out the stats for you??? or are you just angry that you said something pretty fraudulent that i thought i should correct for you because im a nice guy. you should be thanking me. one month ago does not = today.


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## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

Burn said:


> And if you had checked a month ago Kobe was averaging more turnovers and was shoooting a worse percentage. "All things held equal" their FG percentages and turnovers are about the same. If you don't believe me post where they're ranked respectively in the league in those categories, otherwise, shut the hell up.
> 
> p.s. ummmmmmmm


 Agreed


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

Damian Necronamous said:


> How the hell do you know? The only basis you might have for that statement was the ASG where Kobe got booed and was upset about it. You might be forgetting that that was like 3 or 4 years ago. I'm sure he's gotten used to the hate he receives today and he probably doesn't care about most of it anymore.
> 
> Does he care if the people of LA hate him? Well if they did, he would. Does he care if other NBA fans hate him? Hell no.


he does care what ppl think. thats why he went on that media trip when he went on espn, tnt, and other shows to "clear his name." someone who didn't care wouldn't have done that. thats also why he always says the "right thing" in interviews instead of speaking his mind. he doesn't want people to have a certain impression of him. and in the interview with the police when they ave the report im sure i remember there was a point he was worried about his image, thats one of the reasons he didn't want the police to tell anyone.


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

Max Payne said:


> Agreed


you usually agree with lies? he said that kobe's advantages of team record, turnovers and shooting percentage disappeared when shaq left. ill give you team record. but go pull the stats on the turnovers and shooting percentage before you engage in the circle jerk. you usually agree with posts that are at best 1/3 correct?


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## Burn (Feb 2, 2003)

> do you want me to pull out the stats for you??? or are you just angry that you said something pretty fraudulent that i thought i should correct for you because im a nice guy. you should be thanking me. one month ago does not = today.


Yeah I was pretty fraudulent. One player seperates them in turnover rank. What an advantage Kobe has! Kobe is shooting 42.8% to Iverson's 42.1. What a huge advantage Kobe has!

And let's make their team records equal since Iverson plays in the East! Even though the East is more physical, so we could use that to justify the lower shooting percentage by AI....no, no, let's only use it to make their team records equal.

Thanks nice guy, now we all see that Kobe still retains his enormous turnover and FG% advantages, unlike how I stated in my post. Meanwhile, let's go ahead and rate the assists and steals and FT% and PPG in favor of Iverson. Since you want to play that game. 

Wow, Iverson has *huge* advantages as a scorer, passer, free throw shooter and ball thief. WTG AI. And thanks for pointing all that out, nice guy! :clap:


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

duncan2k5 said:


> he does care what ppl think. thats why he went on that media trip when he went on espn, tnt, and other shows to "clear his name." someone who didn't care wouldn't have done that. thats also why he always says the "right thing" in interviews instead of speaking his mind. he doesn't want people to have a certain impression of him. and in the interview with the police when they ave the report im sure i remember there was a point he was worried about his image, thats one of the reasons he didn't want the police to tell anyone.


Duncan: Those were the politically correct things to do in order to get paid. Given his recent actions, do you really believe that he cares. He only cares to the extent that he HAS to convince certain people that he cares.

For one thing, he wants to sell those bobbleheads so that he can get a nice contract from somebody.


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

Whodinee said:


> ummm..... last time i checked kobe still shoots a higher percentage, still turns the ball over less, and their team records all things held equal are relatively the same given conference strength.


well...there you have it








Thread Closed :biggrin:


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## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

Whodinee said:


> you usually agree with lies? he said that kobe's advantages of team record, turnovers and shooting percentage disappeared when shaq left. ill give you team record. but go pull the stats on the turnovers and shooting percentage before you engage in the circle jerk. you usually agree with posts that are at best 1/3 correct?


If I remember correctly Kobe was on pace to shatter the TO record. And was shooting 38% ish while Iverson was shooting in the 43% ish. Those numbers aren't current but those are what he "agreed" to.


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

Love your avatar!


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## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

Whodinee said:


> you usually agree with lies? he said that kobe's advantages of team record, turnovers and shooting percentage disappeared when shaq left. ill give you team record. but go pull the stats on the turnovers and shooting percentage before you engage in the circle jerk. you usually agree with posts that are at best 1/3 correct?


 Dude, I know it's that time of the month, but if you have a problem with the original poster's opinions, then go on a war of words with him but I agree with him because in the big picture I see Iverson and Kobe being equals and that's my opinion whether you like it or not. 
Secondly, have fun defending Kobe for the rest of your life because most people just can't stand him. At least Iverson has people who are willing to take a bullet for him because that's how respected and loved he is. That's the way it will always be. Kobe will always be an arrogant little *****, a rapist and a drama queen in people's eyes. When's the last time Iverson ever had to worry about anything like that ? Like I said, I won't even respond to your insults because I feel sorry for you, for being such an ardent Kobe fan.


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## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

LBJthefuturegoat said:


> If I remember correctly Kobe was on pace to shatter the TO record. And was shooting 38% ish while Iverson was shooting in the 43% ish. Those numbers aren't current but those are what he "agreed" to.


 Thank you. Next time you need help defending KG or Lebron, give me a holler.


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

Max Payne said:


> Dude, I know it's that time of the month, but if you have a problem with the original poster's opinions, then go on a war of words with him but I agree with him because in the big picture I see Iverson and Kobe being equals and that's my opinion whether you like it or not.
> Secondly, have fun defending Kobe for the rest of your life because most people just can't stand him. At least Iverson has people who are willing to take a bullet for him because that's how respected and loved he is. That's the way it will always be. Kobe will always be an arrogant little *****, a rapist and a drama queen in people's eyes. When's the last time Iverson ever had to worry about anything like that ? Like I said, I won't even respond to your insults because I feel sorry for you, for being such an ardent Kobe fan.


so because i correct someones post that had shady "facts" im an ardent kobe fan? next please. the problem with you kobe haters is you arent gonna let anything, not even facts get in the way of your rage for him. i have no real opinion of kobe other than where he ranks among the other nba players. i have a plethera of other players i like/love more than kobe.

you know you got owned, so did burn, so you resorted to what pan would call some "ad hominem" bs tangent which only makes you look worse than you already did. so get at me when you're willing to talk hoops and not soap opera garbage


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Whodinee said:


> so because i correct someones post that had shady "facts" im an ardent kobe fan? next please. the problem with you kobe haters is you arent gonna let anything, not even facts get in the way of your rage for him. i have no real opinion of kobe other than where he ranks among the other nba players. i have a plethera of other players i like/love more than kobe.
> 
> you know you got owned, so did burn, so you resorted to what pan would call some "ad hominem" bs tangent which only makes you look worse than you already did. so get at me when you're willing to talk hoops and not soap opera garbage


 Whodinee you never responded to the other guys post


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Burn said:


> Yeah I was pretty fraudulent. One player seperates them in turnover rank. What an advantage Kobe has! Kobe is shooting 42.8% to Iverson's 42.1. What a huge advantage Kobe has!
> 
> And let's make their team records equal since Iverson plays in the East! Even though the East is more physical, so we could use that to justify the lower shooting percentage by AI....no, no, let's only use it to make their team records equal.
> 
> ...


 THis one here


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

BEEZ said:


> Whodinee you never responded to the other guys post


I want you in the cage Beez. Next month, R-Star vs Beez, no holds barred.


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## O2K (Nov 19, 2002)

personally i think most of the kobe bashing is due to the amount of shaq fans, its true alot of people hated kobe before shaq got traded, but the league in general wasn't really against kobe, people were calling him the most talented sg in the league, the best sg in the league and what not. Because shaq made it seem as if kobe drove him out of LA everyone hates kobe, and its unfair... people dont know what really happened, last time i check kobe never said "i will not sign if shaq is still here" i could have sworn it was shaq that said "trade me" and kupchak traded him... some blame does go to kobe, but more so to kupchak and shaq....


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

O2K said:


> personally i think most of the kobe bashing is due to the amount of shaq fans, its true alot of people hated kobe before shaq got traded, but the league in general wasn't really against kobe, people were calling him the most talented sg in the league, the best sg in the league and what not. Because shaq made it seem as if kobe drove him out of LA everyone hates kobe, and its unfair... people dont know what really happened, last time i check kobe never said "i will not sign if shaq is still here" i could have sworn it was shaq that said "trade me" and kupchak traded him... some blame does go to kobe, but more so to kupchak and shaq....


I think you overestimate shaqs fanbate. I dont like him either.


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## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

Burn said:


> Yeah I was pretty fraudulent. One player seperates them in turnover rank. What an advantage Kobe has! Kobe is shooting 42.8% to Iverson's 42.1. What a huge advantage Kobe has!
> 
> And let's make their team records equal since Iverson plays in the East! Even though the East is more physical, so we could use that to justify the lower shooting percentage by AI....no, no, let's only use it to make their team records equal.
> 
> ...


Let me add on to that.

I don't want to hear anymore of this Iverson plays in the East crap!

The Lakers are 32-36 and 20-20 vs West 12-16 vs East what that means is *They have a worse % against the East than the West*


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

beez

his contention in the beginning was that kobe had lost his advantage of a lower turnover rate and a higher fg % and a better team record due to shaqs loss. the team record aspect is fine. but if kobe has a higher fg% and turns the ball over less, thats still an advantage albeit a small one. i am not arguing any other stats except those. AI has better assist numbers, that is significant. but he's always had better assist numbers so you cant chalk that up to shaq.

the sad thing is i love AI while im pretty indifferent to kobe, but i hate posters who make up some garbage in defense of a guy. 

with that, im done with this thread.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Whodinee said:


> beez
> 
> his contention in the beginning was that kobe had lost his advantage of a lower turnover rate and a higher fg % and a better team record due to shaqs loss. the team record aspect is fine. but if kobe has a higher fg% and turns the ball over less, thats still an advantage albeit a small one. i am not arguing any other stats except those. AI has better assist numbers, that is significant. but he's always had better assist numbers so you cant chalk that up to shaq.
> 
> ...


 Cool and good post


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Whodinee said:


> beez
> 
> his contention in the beginning was that kobe had lost his advantage of a lower turnover rate and a higher fg % and a better team record due to shaqs loss. the team record aspect is fine. but if kobe has a higher fg% and turns the ball over less, thats still an advantage albeit a small one. i am not arguing any other stats except those. AI has better assist numbers, that is significant. but he's always had better assist numbers so you cant chalk that up to shaq.
> 
> ...


Cant fault your post, but you still did not realy address his post.


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## O2K (Nov 19, 2002)

R-Star said:


> I think you overestimate shaqs fanbate. I dont like him either.



well i like shaq more than kobe, but maybe its a coincidence but everytime shaq speaks out against kobe (even when they were on the lakers) everyone would jump on kobe calling him selfish and whatnot, but when shaq says "he's my little brother" everyone says kobe is the best sg in the league... maybe its just me...


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

R-Star said:


> I want you in the cage Beez. Next month, R-Star vs Beez, no holds barred.


 Bring it on. IF you look here. I win easily

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=R-Star&word2=Beez

If cage is what you want then cage it is


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## thegza (Feb 18, 2003)

Ah, the Kobe bashing continues. I honestly feel that Kobe will be pumped for this game, and I always felt that him and Iverson weren't the best of friends. It's too bad that I don't remember much from the NBA finals a few years ago, but before Shaq's trade, I never really saw them heated or go after each other.

Iverson and Shaq are very good friends, which is why he backs up his boy. The Diesel has turned a lot of people against Kobe due to how popular he is in this league. That's how life works, and now it's basically Kobe against the world. It's what he was paid to do this past summer. So far, he's doing alright, but needs much more help.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

O2K said:


> well i like shaq more than kobe, but maybe its a coincidence but everytime shaq speaks out against kobe (even when they were on the lakers) everyone would jump on kobe calling him selfish and whatnot, but when shaq says "he's my little brother" everyone says kobe is the best sg in the league... maybe its just me...


I've always thought and agreed that Kobe is without a doubt one of the best 2 in the league, and at times a top 5 player, but no matter what Shaq or anyone else says, I despise the guys cockyness, attitude and selfishness.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

theLegend said:


> Ah, the Kobe bashing continues. I honestly feel that Kobe will be pumped for this game, and I always felt that him and Iverson weren't the best of friends. It's too bad that I don't remember much from the NBA finals a few years ago, but before Shaq's trade, I never really saw them heated or go after each other.
> 
> Iverson and Shaq are very good friends, which is why he backs up his boy. The Diesel has turned a lot of people against Kobe due to how popular he is in this league. That's how life works, and now it's basically Kobe against the world. It's what he was paid to do this past summer. So far, he's doing alright, but needs much more help.


 Only thing Legend I dont know if Kobe was ever more popular than Iverson is or ever was


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

theLegend said:


> Ah, the Kobe bashing continues. I honestly feel that Kobe will be pumped for this game, and I always felt that him and Iverson weren't the best of friends. It's too bad that I don't remember much from the NBA finals a few years ago, but before Shaq's trade, I never really saw them heated or go after each other.
> 
> Iverson and Shaq are very good friends, which is why he backs up his boy. The Diesel has turned a lot of people against Kobe due to how popular he is in this league. That's how life works, and now it's basically Kobe against the world. It's what he was paid to do this past summer. So far, he's doing alright, but needs much more help.


Ahhh, Kobe exposed himself as a "RAT" against Shaq. That drove a lot of people to Shaq. Including me, who initially disliked Shaq as much as I dislike Kobe. Little did I know that a lot of what I disliked about Shaq resulted from what he was dealing with internally.

People simply don't like Rats, and the way he interjected Shaq into his own personal hell, potentially running the risk of interferring with Shaq's marriage --- well, that just turned an awful lot of people off. He followed that up with accusing Malone of hitting on his wife. Pleez.

Shaq didn't create this hell for Kobe, Kobe created it for himself. AI is right --- without the Big Guy --- welcome to his world, see how easy it is NOT. Be a man and live up to what others go through without the Big Guy. Game in, Game out, Night in, Night out --- NOT just today's game. One game proves nothing.

AI is right.


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## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

BEEZ said:


> Only thing Legend I dont know if Kobe was ever more popular than Iverson is or ever was


 Yeah Iverson really is a lot more popular than most people know him to be...


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

R-Star said:


> I've always thought and agreed that Kobe is without a doubt one of the best 2 in the league, and at times a top 5 player, but no matter what Shaq or anyone else says, I despise the guys cockyness, attitude and selfishness.


:yes:

I agree.


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## thegza (Feb 18, 2003)

BEEZ said:


> Only thing Legend I dont know if Kobe was ever more popular than Iverson is or ever was


It's tough to say. Iverson is known by many as the little warrior, and I hardly can talk bad about him in front of the girls that I know, he's adored by them. :biggrin: 



> People simply don't like Rats, and the way he interjected Shaq into his own personal hell, potentially running the risk of interferring with Shaq's marriage --- well, that just turned an awful lot of people off. He followed that up with accusing Malone of hitting on his wife. Pleez.


I don't know the whole truth behind all this, so I cannot comment with anything solid. But, I know for a fact that Kobe Bryant never wanted his comments about Shaq to get so public, and he was just co-operating with the police. That's the impression that I get from the articles that I've read, but maybe it's wrong.

And, to be honest with you, if I had a wife like that, I wouldn't let any of my teammates get near her. That's Kobe's problem, and we don't have the slightest clue of what happened, so we shouldn't judge from the outside looking in.



> Shaq didn't create this hell for Kobe, Kobe created it for himself. AI is right --- without the Big Guy --- welcome to his world, see how easy it is NOT. Be a man and live up to what others go through without the Big Guy. Game in, Game out, Night in, Night out --- NOT just today's game. One game proves nothing.


Kobe and Shaq were never the best of friends, but won 3 championships together in 5 years. That's pretty damn good, might I add. Had they liked each other, would things have worked out better? certainly. But the fact of the matter is, Kobe is paying for this with such an off-year from the Lakers, and he'll be begging to get another dominant big man this summer.

The Big Guy didn't want to stay without Phil Jackson, and that's how the story ends. Both of these men are trying to move on, but the media won't let go, and I don't expect them to stop singing Kobe and Shaq's name together until both retire.

As for Iverson, as much as I love the guy, did he really have to say all that? although it may be the truth, but Kobe is still a fantastic player without the Diesel, and it's as if he is trying to teach Kobe a lesson. If anything, Kobe's personal stats have improved.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

theLegend said:


> If anything, Kobe's personal stats have improved.


They have dipped moreso than anything. TO's up, pts down, defensively hes not the same.


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

it would take a fool to not know that kobe was the main reason shaq isn't in LA. a big fool. so let me say it in fool's language. Kobe no like Phil, phil no like kobe. shaq no like kobe. kobe no like shaq. phil say "kobe stay i leave". kobe stay so phil leave. shaq no like. shaq want out. kobe no speak. buss trade shaq. one day pass. kobe sign back. hmmm...


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## thegza (Feb 18, 2003)

BEEZ said:


> They have dipped moreso than anything. TO's up, pts down, defensively hes not the same.


Defensively, the whole team hasn't been the same since the All-Star break, or whenever Rudy T resigned and Hamblen was put on as the coach. As for his TO's and points, he's averaging 4 more points per game then a year ago, and the TO's were to be expected as he's handling the ball much more and gets more pressure due to that fact. An example would be that Francis, Wade and Iverson all turn the ball over more often then Kobe.

Last year's stat sheet: 24 ppg, 5 apg, 5.5 rpg
This year's stat sheet: 28 ppg, 6 apg, 5.9 rpg

Anyways, I'm off to go watch the game. Enjoy.


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## Malnutritious (Nov 30, 2002)

Iverson not shooting well tonight, good thing webber is picking up the slack.


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## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

Iverson's 1-10 but he's got teammates that are playing good right now.


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

duncan2k5 said:


> it would take a fool to not know that kobe was the main reason shaq isn't in LA. a big fool. so let me say it in fool's language. Kobe no like Phil, phil no like kobe. shaq no like kobe. kobe no like shaq. phil say "kobe stay i leave". kobe stay so phil leave. shaq no like. shaq want out. kobe no speak. buss trade shaq. one day pass. kobe sign back. hmmm...


If Phil no like Kobe why Phil maybe come back and coach Kobe next year?


----------



## Nique21 (Jan 12, 2005)

duncan2k5 said:


> it would take a fool to not know that kobe was the main reason shaq isn't in LA. a big fool. so let me say it in fool's language. Kobe no like Phil, phil no like kobe. shaq no like kobe. kobe no like shaq. phil say "kobe stay i leave". kobe stay so phil leave. shaq no like. shaq want out. kobe no speak. buss trade shaq. one day pass. kobe sign back. hmmm...


Exactly

I remember laughing my *** off when the Lakers traded Shaq to the Heat and then about a day later Kobe resigned with the Lakers


----------



## Nique21 (Jan 12, 2005)

madskillz1_99 said:


> If Phil no like Kobe why Phil maybe come back and coach Kobe next year?


Since you werent paying any attention, he was reffering to what happened a year ago and we all know that Phil didnt like Kobe, his book pretty much summed it up for us how much Kobe drove him nuts

And trust me, Phil isnt coming back to the Lakers. This is all just hoopla and if Phil does come back, then either they have patched things up since last year or Phil is an extremely desperate man


----------



## Malnutritious (Nov 30, 2002)

Kobe's not attacking the basket today.


----------



## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

Mihm decided to play basketball today.


----------



## Nique21 (Jan 12, 2005)

Kobe is 4-9 shooting and is 4-7 shooting 3-Pointers

Here we go again... :laugh:


----------



## Malnutritious (Nov 30, 2002)

Lakers keeping up despite Kobe's six turnovers


----------



## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

predictably, the discussion is still kobe kobe kobe kobe despite AI's 2-20. i just about stopped watching this game now. im too much in college basketball mode.


----------



## Burn (Feb 2, 2003)

I thought you were done with this thread?

The REALLY sad thing is that you can't admit that you were wrong. McGrady is one inch taller than Kobe, does that make height an advantage for McGrady?

No, because there's a word called 'negligable' which dictates whether an advantage truly exists or not. And in the cases I cited, it didn't. So don't accuse me of making up garbage because the fact that Kobe is #3 in TOs and Iverson is #1 is about as relevant advantage-wise as Iverson being #1 in PPG and Kobe #2.

Once you understand that, then you'll understand you were wrong from the beginning...ummmmmmmm


----------



## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

Burn said:


> The REALLY sad thing is that you can't admit that you were wrong. McGrady is one inch taller than Kobe, does that make height an advantage for McGrady?


a 5 year old would tell you yes, it does make it an advantage. 

i dont know where you got educated and why they're telling you to dismiss an advantage alltogether only because they're not as wide as one would like, but i suggest you go back there and ask them for your money back


----------



## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

Whodinee said:


> a 5 year old would tell you yes, it does make it an advantage.
> 
> i dont know where you got educated and why they're telling you to dismiss an advantage alltogether only because they're not as wide as one would like, but i suggest you go back there and ask them for your money back


:rofl:


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

Malnutritious said:


> Kobe's not attacking the basket today.


when does he ever for this season?


----------



## Malnutritious (Nov 30, 2002)

Whodinee said:


> predictably, the discussion is still kobe kobe kobe kobe despite AI's 2-20. i just about stopped watching this game now. im too much in college basketball mode.


I did mention that earlier. A little sensitive arent we?


----------



## Malnutritious (Nov 30, 2002)

Iverson has a triple double counting missed shots.


----------



## Burn (Feb 2, 2003)

OK, you're right then. TMac has the height advantage over Kobe. Iverson has the advantage of being a more prolific scorer than Kobe, and I have the experience advantage over my twin brother because I was born an hour earlier. Thanks for properly educating me.


----------



## Kneejoh (Dec 21, 2004)

DuMa said:


> when does he ever for this season?


Well he leads the league in FTAPG


----------



## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

DuMa said:


> when does he ever for this season?


Lots, but he's a bit banged up now, anyways, he's still managed 30 points on 10-20.


----------



## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

Malnutritious said:


> I did mention that earlier. A little sensitive arent we?


okay, my mistake, didnt read past the last page.


----------



## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

Burn said:


> OK, you're right then. TMac has the height advantage over Kobe. Iverson has the advantage of being a more prolific scorer than Kobe, and I have the experience advantage over my twin brother because I was born an hour earlier. Thanks for properly educating me.


 :rofl:


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## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

Damn Iggy can get up!


----------



## Malnutritious (Nov 30, 2002)

He sure can, WOW!


----------



## Kunlun (Jun 22, 2003)

In the end Iverson's team wins. Kobe's team loses. Iverson has a double with 20 points and 15 assists.


----------



## 7thwatch (Jul 18, 2002)

Kunlun said:


> In the end Iverson's team wins. Kobe's team loses. Iverson has a double with 20 points and 15 assists.


and most importantly, it won me some ucash points!


----------



## BBB (Jan 19, 2005)

7thwatch said:


> and most importantly, it won me some ucash points!


And I lost a whole lot of uCash.


----------



## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

I love it how he referred to himself in the third person, like we don't know his name


----------



## BBB (Jan 19, 2005)

duncan2k5 said:


> it would take a fool to not know that kobe was the main reason shaq isn't in LA. a big fool. so let me say it in fool's language. Kobe no like Phil, phil no like kobe. shaq no like kobe. kobe no like shaq. phil say "kobe stay i leave". kobe stay so phil leave. shaq no like. shaq want out. kobe no speak. buss trade shaq. one day pass. kobe sign back. hmmm...


And I no like you when you speak like this! 

Seriously though, it would take an amazingly blind and biased "fan" to not consider Kobe partly responsible of how things are today for the Lakers. But to just pinpoint all the blame onto Kobe is a tad unfair IMO. 

I'd say, half of the blame goes to Kobe and the other half to Shaq. Had they got along well, then perhaps Lakers would still be winning championships today. But they didn't, and I fault BOTH Kobe and Shaq for that. It's because of that sour relationship that both had, that made it impossible for both to remain on the same team.

As for Buss's decision to stick with Kobe instead of Shaq? I don't fault him either, he made the better business decision there. On one hand, you've got agrubly the top SG in the league today and on the other hand, you have the most dominant player in a while. But the fact that the SG is younger and may potentially play better down the road, whereas the MDE has been overweight and out-of-shape and has his fair share of injuries the past few years (and aging as well), I think a sane person would most definitely pick the former.


----------



## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

BBB said:


> And I no like you when you speak like this!
> 
> Seriously though, it would take an amazingly blind and biased "fan" to not consider Kobe partly responsible of how things are today for the Lakers. But to just pinpoint all the blame onto Kobe is a tad unfair IMO.
> 
> ...


I'm not sane then...nuff said.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

duncan2k5 said:


> it would take a fool to not know that kobe was the main reason shaq isn't in LA. a big fool. so let me say it in fool's language. Kobe no like Phil, phil no like kobe. shaq no like kobe. kobe no like shaq. phil say "kobe stay i leave". kobe stay so phil leave. shaq no like. shaq want out. kobe no speak. buss trade shaq. one day pass. kobe sign back. hmmm...


So what you're saying is that you think like a 4 year old?



> his book pretty much summed it up for us how much Kobe drove him nuts


You never read his book, Nique.



> And trust me, Phil isnt coming back to the Lakers. This is all just hoopla and if Phil does come back, then either they have patched things up since last year or Phil is an extremely desperate man


LOL.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

EHL said:


> THE OFFICIAL "I AM A LAKER/KOBE STEALTH TROLL" CLUB
> 
> 1. Mack Ten, 2. Nique21/Chise/Jewelz, 3. BallBiologist, 4. jc76ers 5. Xericx 6. Dynasty Raider 7. LB26matrixns/The Gipper 8. hotel312 9. DuMa 10. duncan2k5 11. SeaNet (non-stealth) PM to join.


And the usual suspects at it again in this thread. So predictable.


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

BBB said:


> And I no like you when you speak like this!
> 
> Seriously though, it would take an amazingly blind and biased "fan" to not consider Kobe partly responsible of how things are today for the Lakers. But to just pinpoint all the blame onto Kobe is a tad unfair IMO.
> 
> ...


Interesting take...

I agree with pretty much everything you said here. I would say though on Shaq's behalf. His issues had much more to do with dealing with basketball issues and personality conflicts in the locker room(w/Kobe).

So tell me this. If Kobe never wins a title with the Lakers and Shaq goes on to win 2 - 3 more. Do you than have to say in hindsight it was a colossal business mistake in Laker history ?

Kobe took those manageable issues and blew them up ten fold when he name Dropped Shaq to the 5-0. Regardless if it was Kobes intention or not for it to come out to the publics eye.

And they were manageable issues before considering the Lakers had been to 4 NBA finals in 5 Seasons and Have 3 Nba titles. Thats amazing!

And I believe Phil could manage Shaq and Kobe and keep them a title contending team. If Phil could handle Dennis Rodman he can handle any other NBA player to date. Only one on the same level of issues as Rodman. May be Artest and Kobe one step behind.

Kobe could never play through Shaq an entire game and be able to dominate the game in other ways like say a Scottie Pippen could do with a Michael Jordan. Pippen new MJ was the leader and had no problem with that. While of course winning 6 Nba titles in a 8 year stretch.

I don't think Kobe and the Lakers will be a contender for the NBA championship again for another 3 - 5 years. Probably about the time Shaq retires and has won a few more Championships. The Irony of life.


----------



## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

23AirJordan said:


> Interesting take...
> 
> I agree with pretty much everything you said here. I would say though on Shaq's behalf. His issues had much more to do with dealing with basketball issues and personality conflicts in the locker room(w/Kobe).
> 
> ...



If Shaq took the same role he does in Miami vis a vis Wade, with respect to Kobe, there would be no problem and Kobe and Shaq could have been winning more titles.


----------



## tatahbenitez (Jun 18, 2004)

madskillz1_99 said:


> If Shaq took the same role he does in Miami vis a vis Wade, with respect to Kobe, there would be no problem and Kobe and Shaq could have been winning more titles.


It's never Kobe's fault, is it? If Shaq were only more respectful... if Phil put Kobe as the main option of the triangle... if Malone didn't have special hunting permits... if Colorado were blown out of existance... and if Chuckie Atkins never said who really was GM of The Lakers, then Kobe would be loved and idolized by everyone, like he should be. :laugh:


----------



## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

tatahbenitez said:


> It's never Kobe's fault, is it? If Shaq were only more respectful... if Phil put Kobe as the main option of the triangle... if Malone didn't have special hunting permits... if Colorado were blown out of existance... and if Chuckie Atkins never said who really was GM of The Lakers, then Kobe would be loved and idolized by everyone, like he should be. :laugh:


Hmm... that's not what i thought i said. But ok.


----------



## tatahbenitez (Jun 18, 2004)

madskillz1_99 said:


> Hmm... that's not what i thought i said. But ok.


You stated....



> If Shaq took the same role he does in Miami vis a vis Wade, with respect to Kobe, there would be no problem and Kobe and Shaq could have been winning more titles.


You clearly say that if Shaq respected Kobe like he is respecting Wade, then "there would be no problem", and both Shaq and Kobe would still be playing and winning together. It seems to me, you imply, that it was all Shaqs fault because Kobe didn't need to change anything. Shaq is the one who needed to make changes for everything to work out between them. Kobe was never at fault. :angel:


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

23AirJordan said:


> Kobe could never play through Shaq an entire game and be able to dominate the game in other ways like say a Scottie Pippen could do with a Michael Jordan. Pippen new MJ was the leader and had no problem with that. While of course winning 6 Nba titles in a 8 year stretch.


i don't think it was only a matter of playing "Who's the leader?". and i don't think the analogy with MJ and Pippen is 100% suitable.

Not only Pippen knew that Mj was the leader he also never chasticed Michael's effort and drive towards the organization. Michael was said to a fanatical worker in his game and his body.

If i remember correctly, the riff between Kobe and Shaq really began when Shaq dedided to take that surgery in the beggining of the 02-03 season, therefore not being available to play for i don't know how many games and not is top-game condition in many more. That pissed out Kobe (and the rest of the Lakers). Kobe, at least in one aspect, is similar to MJ: he also is a tremendous worker. And the fact that he perceived Shaq as being lazy and selfish ("I got hurt on company time, i'll heal in company time" - or something like that) really put a dagger on their relationship (who wasn't a great one to begin with).

Both of them started to go public with accusations "Everybody knows it's my team" "well, if it's his team he better show up for work", etc., etc..

Bottom line: IMHO, it's not that Kobe couldn't play with Shaq. It's the fact that he thought that Shaq's atitude was detrimental to the team. And i bet Shaq though the same way about Kobe. It all came downhill after that.

Maybe if both were obliged to take ego-management courses...



> I don't think Kobe and the Lakers will be a contender for the NBA championship again for another 3 - 5 years. Probably about the time Shaq retires and has won a few more Championships. The Irony of life.


Yes, that's the likely scenario. And it's ironic, indeed...


----------



## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

PauloCatarino said:


> i don't think it was only a matter of playing "Who's the leader?". and i don't think the analogy with MJ and Pippen is 100% suitable.
> 
> Not only Pippen knew that Mj was the leader he also never chasticed Michael's effort and drive towards the organization. Michael was said to a fanatical worker in his game and his body.
> 
> ...


nah, the rift began way before that. that was just another chapter in the book baby. i remember when shaq was mad when kobe forced a shot against i think the blazers or somebody and airballed it and they ended up losing the series.


----------



## tatahbenitez (Jun 18, 2004)

duncan2k5 said:


> nah, the rift began way before that. that was just another chapter in the book baby. i remember when shaq was mad when kobe forced a shot against i think the blazers or somebody and airballed it and they ended up losing the series.


No, it wasn't The Blazers, it was against Utah, during the regular season. Shaq and Van Exel were hot in that game, but Kobe shot 2 airballs in the final minute when the score was within 2 points. Caused The Lakers to lose.

Kobe and Shaq did not like each other early in their career. It was more than likely a mutual dislike with one another and grew from there. Shaq was an extrovert and loved to joke around. Kobe was an introvert and didn't do the "normal" things athletes did after the game (but Colorado proved that false). Everything else was just built on that dislike. Phil held it together long enough for 3 Championships, but last year was it for the "dynasty".


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## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

tatahbenitez said:


> No, it wasn't The Blazers, it was against Utah, during the regular season. Shaq and Van Exel were hot in that game, but Kobe shot 2 airballs in the final minute when the score was within 2 points. Caused The Lakers to lose.



oh ok. thanks for the clear up. but yea, everything u just said i agree with


----------



## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

Burn said:


> I thought you were done with this thread?
> 
> The REALLY sad thing is that you can't admit that you were wrong. McGrady is one inch taller than Kobe, does that make height an advantage for McGrady?
> 
> ...


Actually, T-Mac's height advantage over Kobe is pretty significant, and certainly more than a single inch.


----------



## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

TMac has about 3 inches on Kobe.


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## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

PauloCatarino said:


> i don't think it was only a matter of playing "Who's the leader?". and i don't think the analogy with MJ and Pippen is 100% suitable.
> 
> Not only Pippen knew that Mj was the leader he also never chasticed Michael's effort and drive towards the organization. Michael was said to a fanatical worker in his game and his body.
> 
> ...


Great Post, I agree with everything you said......


.....I hope you know with opinions like these....you could never work for ESPN :biggrin:


----------



## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

PauloCatarino said:


> i don't think it was only a matter of playing "Who's the leader?". and i don't think the analogy with MJ and Pippen is 100% suitable.
> 
> Not only Pippen knew that Mj was the leader he also never chasticed Michael's effort and drive towards the organization. Michael was said to a fanatical worker in his game and his body.
> 
> ...


Well I can agree with a lot of what your saying.

And I realize the Pippen Jordan Duo is a lot different than the Kobe Shaq duo. Obviously it should be said that Pippen is a lot more mature than Kobe Bryant as well.

Because you stated that Their problems began when Shaq was out of shape and KOBE deemed that to be detrimental to the Lakers team. Yet when Jordan came back in to the league the year the Bulls lost against the Magic (a shaq team by the way) Pippen never imagined having Jordan on his team regardless of his playing condition etc would be a bad thing. Also its very well documented that Michael wasnt himself playing a handful games and than busting in to the playoffs like he did.

Now Jordan came back the next year in the best shape ever and the Bulls destroyed all teams. And I'm not saying Shaq would have done that but Shaq is still and was the Leader of the Lakers not Kobe Bryant. Shaq won 3 MVP's in the 3 titles the Lakers won not Kobe.

So I do believe Kobe would of never been happy regardless of the shape of Shaq if Kobe always had to play second fiddle.

And well now Kobe has the team and will have 5 -7 years to turn it around in Laker land. I'm actually rooting for the guy believe it or not. He is my favorite Shooting Guard in the League bar none. But I have to say that Shaq was irreplaceable. So shame on Kobe and Buss.

Also Kobe should never drop anybodys name to the COPS when he is the one in knee deep. That was bogus.


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

AI is great player, but he talks too much smack sometimes. Kobe is better than you AI and he comes to practice and hits his freethrows so you better recognize. Allen Iverson needs to be socked down by a referee. :rofl: He walks around the damn court like he has the biggest ballz and disrespects people. The guy is a glorified thug. 

I used to like him after an article I read. He speaks the truth. But a lot of times he disrepects people too much. His coach, his teammates, other players. AI needs to pipe down and play basketball. He whines about every damn call by the referee. He whines more than any other player I have ever seen.


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## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

compsciguy78 said:


> AI is great player, but he talks too much smack sometimes. Kobe is better than you AI and he comes to practice and hits his freethrows so you better recognize. Allen Iverson needs to be socked down by a referee. :rofl: He walks around the damn court like he has the biggest ballz and disrespects people. The guy is a glorified thug.
> 
> I used to like him after an article I read. He speaks the truth. But a lot of times he disrepects people too much. His coach, his teammates, other players. AI needs to pipe down and play basketball. He whines about every damn call by the referee. He whines more than any other player I have ever seen.


 :nonono:


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## Ps!ence_Fiction (Aug 1, 2004)

compsciguy78 said:


> AI is great player, but he talks too much smack sometimes. Kobe is better than you AI and he comes to practice and hits his freethrows so you better recognize. Allen Iverson needs to be socked down by a referee. :rofl: He walks around the damn court like he has the biggest ballz and disrespects people. The guy is a glorified thug.
> 
> I used to like him after an article I read. He speaks the truth. But a lot of times he disrepects people too much. His coach, his teammates, other players. AI needs to pipe down and play basketball. He whines about every damn call by the referee. He whines more than any other player I have ever seen.


 :nonono:


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## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

He definetely does not whine more than Kobe. Duh!


----------



## Nique21 (Jan 12, 2005)

compsciguy78 said:


> AI is great player, but he talks too much smack sometimes. Kobe is better than you AI and he comes to practice and hits his freethrows so you better recognize. Allen Iverson needs to be socked down by a referee. :rofl: He walks around the damn court like he has the biggest ballz and disrespects people. The guy is a glorified thug.
> 
> I used to like him after an article I read. He speaks the truth. But a lot of times he disrepects people too much. His coach, his teammates, other players. AI needs to pipe down and play basketball. He whines about every damn call by the referee. He whines more than any other player I have ever seen.


 :nonono: 

:banana:


----------



## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

f22egl said:


> He definetely does not whine more than Kobe. Duh!


I don't know about that. Tune into any Philly game and you're guaranteed to see this image a half a dozen times per game.










He definately gives Kobe a run for his money when it comes to whining about fouls.


----------



## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

compsciguy78 said:


> AI is great player, but he talks too much smack sometimes. Kobe is better than you AI and *he comes to practice and hits his freethrows * so you better recognize. Allen Iverson needs to be socked down by a referee. :rofl: He walks around the damn court like he has the biggest ballz and disrespects people. The guy is a glorified thug.
> 
> I used to like him after an article I read. He speaks the truth. But a lot of times he disrepects people too much. His coach, his teammates, other players. AI needs to pipe down and play basketball. He whines about every damn call by the referee. He whines more than any other player I have ever seen.


what are you talkin about???????? Iverson shoots a better freethrow % than kobe. and when does he disrespect people??? plz tell me. he is one of the realest star players in the L. unlike kobe who is so cliche and calls everyone his "road dog." oh please.


----------



## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

Pinball said:


> I don't know about that. Tune into any Philly game and you're guaranteed to see this image a half a dozen times per game.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I think he has a gripe being that hes probably the most fouled player in the league and so many calls the refs just dont make that I have seen.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

duncan2k5 said:


> what are you talkin about???????? Iverson shoots a better freethrow % than kobe. and when does he disrespect people??? plz tell me. he is *one of the realest star players in the L. *unlike kobe who is so cliche and calls everyone his "road dog." oh please.


Exactly what does that mean? :raised_ey


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## Kunlun (Jun 22, 2003)

compsciguy78 said:


> AI is great player, but he talks too much smack sometimes. Kobe is better than you AI and he comes to practice and hits his freethrows so you better recognize.


Actually Allen Iverson is shooting a better free throw percentage than Kobe. He's shooting .831 while Kobe is shooting .821.


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## kidd2rj (Jan 29, 2005)

i think shaq is more accepting of wade than kobe because wade plays smarter. kobe tries to take over games and plays outside of the context of TEAM basketball. wade will actually give up the ball and find open teammates. even phil jackson said in his book that kobe broke off plays to do his own thing. shaq or any teammate would be upset at him for doing that...shaq was just the only one with the star power to be able to stand up and say it. 

but that's part of MY personal hatred of kobe. iverson is a ballhog also but he at least plays smarter and gets easier shots. kobe dribbles into double teams, pump fakes which might not fool either defender and then puts the shot up anyway. he did this while he had shaq too. For as good as kobe is, he's just not a smart player.


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

Iverson is the biggest whiner in the league. Kobe complains about fouls, but doesn't flat out whine as much as AI.

His whole "I'm realer than you act" is getting lame. 

Anybody that takes his frusturation out on a ref instead of player has no ballz. Sorry AI, you're a wuss. If you need to yell at a ref, who has basically very little to stand on in this league, you are picking on the weak and meager, meaning you have no ballz.


----------



## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

compsciguy78 said:


> Iverson is the biggest whiner in the league. Kobe complains about fouls, but doesn't flat out whine as much as AI.
> 
> His whole "I'm realer than you act" is getting lame.
> 
> Anybody that takes his frusturation out on a ref instead of player has no ballz. Sorry AI, you're a wuss. If you need to yell at a ref, who has basically very little to stand on in this league, you are picking on the weak and meager, meaning you have no ballz.


Isn't this the same Kobe who whined at an obvious reach in last game that was on National TV and got T-ed up for it? Oh btw they lost to those AI lead sixers.

Oh and I take it "have no ballz" goes for Kobe too?


----------



## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

LBJthefuturegoat said:


> Isn't this the same Kobe who whined at an obvious reach in last game that was on National TV and got T-ed up for it? Oh btw they lost to those AI lead sixers.



That was Kobe at his absolute worst. AI complains about every single call. It's rare he goes without complaining on most drives. The guy is the most consistent whiner in the game. 


There is a difference between an outburst and incessant whining. Iverson is like a little baby that just won't stop...day and night....crying and crying. And then he has the nerve to act like he's "from the hood" and the toughest guy on the court. Whining and tough don't go together.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I'm pretty sure Iverson isn't "acting" like he's from "the hood". I'm pretty goddamn sure he IS from "the hood".


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

both players complain to the refs far too much.


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

futuristxen said:


> I'm pretty sure Iverson isn't "acting" like he's from "the hood". I'm pretty goddamn sure he IS from "the hood".


Yeah, but he acts like a glorified thug nonetheless. It's just a big act. He's not tough, if he was he wouldn't be picking on referees. He would take down Glenn Robinson. I want to see him do that.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

compsciguy78 said:


> Yeah, but he acts like a glorified thug nonetheless. It's just a big act. He's not tough, if he was he wouldn't be picking on referees. He would take down Glenn Robinson. I want to see him do that.


 Why would he take down Glenn Robinson? Hes not even on the Sixers anymore.


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

BEEZ said:


> Why would he take down Glenn Robinson? Hes not even on the Sixers anymore.



Because when Glenn Robinson was there he was complaining about something, I can't remember exactly what. It was his minutes, the ball rotation with AI hogging the ball, or something like that. But you don't see AI take on Big Dog then do you. But he likes to pick on referees. Weak.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

compsciguy78 said:


> Because when Glenn Robinson was there he was complaining about something, I can't remember exactly what. It was his minutes, the ball rotation with AI hogging the ball, or something like that. But you don't see AI take on Big Dog then do you. But he likes to pick on referees. Weak.


 NO your arguement is weak. What did Allen Iverson have anything to do with Glenn Robinson's minutes. Nothing. Glenn Robinson was responsible for getting Randy Ayers fired on top of the fact that he still didnt play much under Chris Ford. I dont know where you are going with what you are saying but this post is non factual.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

compsciguy78 said:


> Yeah, but he acts like a glorified thug nonetheless. It's just a big act. He's not tough, if he was he wouldn't be picking on referees. He would take down Glenn Robinson. I want to see him do that.


Iverson is tough. Maybe he doesn't look that tough in comparison to a league where the average height is up around 6-8. But I'd take Iverson in most street fights against normal people. At least as much as I would take Tupac Shakur when he was alive.

He's emotional out there on the court, he game is fueled by his passion. It's what I love about his game. What you call whining, some call giving a damn. Iverson plays every play like it's his last, and that's why people love him.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> Iverson is tough. Maybe he doesn't look that tough in comparison to a league where the average height is up around 6-8. But I'd take Iverson in most street fights against normal people. At least as much as I would take Tupac Shakur when he was alive.


i wonder why you seem to think this is important regarding a basketball player, fruity... For street fighting i'd take Shaq... so what?
It's all fine and dandy that you like AI's "thugh" (can't keep myself from grinning at that notion) look, but does it really matter?



> He's emotional out there on the court, he game is fueled by his passion. It's what I love about his game. What you call whining, some call giving a damn. Iverson plays every play like it's his last, and that's why people love him.


Except when it comes to practicing with your teammates, off course...

Don't want this to go OT, but this "idolization" (sp?) of someone like AI is pretty sickening, IMHO...

(no diss to fruityvixen, who i regard as one of the best posters in non-Kobe related issues)... :biggrin:


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

PauloCatarino said:


> Except when it comes to practicing with your teammates, off course...
> 
> Don't want this to go OT, but this "idolization" (sp?) of someone like AI is pretty sickening, IMHO...
> 
> (no diss to fruityvixen, who i regard as one of the best posters in non-Kobe related issues)... :biggrin:


The only thing id, is that AI does practice with his teammates frequently. I mean that statement was 3 years ago now and people are still holding on to it. also what do you mean by "somone like AI"?


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

BEEZ said:


> The only thing id, is that AI does practice with his teammates frequently. I mean that statement was 3 years ago now and people are still holding on to it. also what do you mean by "somone like AI"?


Easy, Beax.
Iverson is a punk.
He is a wonderfully gifted basketball player.
I love his game.
But he is a punk.

i think that's all i have to say...


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

PauloCatarino said:


> i think that's all i have to say...


Thank goodness. :biggrin:


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

JNice said:


> Thank goodness. :biggrin:


Don't get me started, Jnice... You KNOW i'll give you a woopin' about AI... :biggrin:


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## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

I will never say that the tatoos or the jewelry is something I really admire or want my kids to have because they send out the wrong message to most people regardless of what era we live in. I will never say that I admire a lot of the things Iverson has said in the past and his past attitude towards practice. I will never say that I agree with the fact that he feels he's repaying his roots by giving money to his family members and friends from back in Hampton instead of helping them get educated about how to lead a better life and ensure that they can stay out of the ghetto forever. Lastly I won't ever settle for a player of his heart living around the perimeter and shooting jumpshots all day when he's the greatest slasher, bar none, that the game has ever seen. That's a lot of disapproval right there.

Yet there are reasons that I love and respect Iverson like I do few others. Call him a thug if it makes you feel good, like all those other sanctimonious sons of b*****s out there. Call him whatever you want if it helps you sleep at night. Yet there is no other superstar in this league who puts it all on the line like Iverson does. Not even Kevin Garnett, a player I respect as much as I do my own father. Iverson's infectious desire to be a champion and his dogged persistence is unbelievable. Night in and night out he takes a beating and plays through injuries because he lives on the game. All other superstars get superstar calls and ticky-tack textbook fouls, yet for Iverson almost every hard drive in the lane is an injury waiting to derail his career. Yet the love of the game is all that matters to him and he cares nothing for the risks that come with engaging in dangerous physical battles with atheletes literally twice his size. That kind of courage and passion is something that everyone can look up to. Iverson beat some unbelievable odds considering where he came from and the what he had to face as a child. Few players with the exception of a select few such as Jamaal Tinsley and Kevin Garnett can truly attest to beating these kinds of odds and becoming an international icon. 
Iverson had his issues during the early days but no one can question his heart, his desire or his competitiveness. His story is one that gives hope to people all over the world, not just Philadelphia, Hampton or the US. There's a reason why if you ever walk around in Philadelphia, you'll see a familiar jersey every 5 minutes. There's a reason why people all over the world speak of Iverson and love and respect him as if he was one of their own. There's a reason why the entire franchise of the 76ers was suddenly lifted by his very presence. With the exception of the fact that he will never be an NBA champion, Iverson's is a story that will never be marred as Kobe's story has been marred. Say what you will, curse Iverson's existence and spit on his name all that you want if it makes you feel good. It all stems from the fact that Kobe will never get this kind of adoration and respect, even if I will be the first person to admit that on many fronts, Kobe is Iverson's superior as a basketball player. Iverson knows when to let his confidence fuel his passion but also knows to defer to the greatest players the game has ever known, like Jordan, Magic, Isaiah, Bird and more recently Shaq, another reason why he is so loved. 
Justice will be served when in the annals of basketball history, Kobe goes down as a stunning player, yet a lost and forlorn individual, hated and despised much more than loved due to his arrogance, penchant for unnecessary drama and Shaq era titles. Iverson will go down as a champion who was never really a champion but who, in the war of life, faced the odds in the square in the face and beat them with the same ferocity that he beat the best defenses of his era night in and night out. He will be forever embraced as the incredible competitor whose talent was surpassed only by his determination and passion for the game. He will forever be one of the most loved, respected and idolized atheletes the world or any sport has ever seen. To judge a man of his character solely by his outward appearance is something sanctimonious bigots have always used to somehow justify their rage at the fact that a man so small can be such a giant and can command such love and respect.


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## Ps!ence_Fiction (Aug 1, 2004)

Incredible post Max Payne. I'd give you rep points, but I've already given them to you recently, so I can't. I'd talk on this subject, but I think Max Payne pretty much covered it. Once again, great post Max. PauloCatarino and compsciguy78, both of you should read that post carefully because your views of Iverson are completely skewed and wrong.


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

Max Payne said:


> I will never say that the tatoos or the jewelry is something I really admire or want my kids to have because they send out the wrong message to most people regardless of what era we live in. I will never say that I admire a lot of the things Iverson has said in the past and his past attitude towards practice. I will never say that I agree with the fact that he feels he's repaying his roots by giving money to his family members and friends from back in Hampton instead of helping them get educated about how to lead a better life and ensure that they can stay out of the ghetto forever. Lastly I won't ever settle for a player of his heart living around the perimeter and shooting jumpshots all day when he's the greatest slasher, bar none, that the game has ever seen. That's a lot of disapproval right there.
> 
> Yet there are reasons that I love and respect Iverson like I do few others. Call him a thug if it makes you feel good, like all those other sanctimonious sons of b*****s out there. Call him whatever you want if it helps you sleep at night. Yet there is no other superstar in this league who puts it all on the line like Iverson does. Not even Kevin Garnett, a player I respect as much as I do my own father. Iverson's infectious desire to be a champion and his dogged persistence is unbelievable. Night in and night out he takes a beating and plays through injuries because he lives on the game. All other superstars get superstar calls and ticky-tack textbook fouls, yet for Iverson almost every hard drive in the lane is an injury waiting to derail his career. Yet the love of the game is all that matters to him and he cares nothing for the risks that come with engaging in dangerous physical battles with atheletes literally twice his size. That kind of courage and passion is something that everyone can look up to. Iverson beat some unbelievable odds considering where he came from and the what he had to face as a child. Few players with the exception of a select few such as Jamaal Tinsley and Kevin Garnett can truly attest to beating these kinds of odds and becoming an international icon.
> Iverson had his issues during the early days but no one can question his heart, his desire or his competitiveness. His story is one that gives hope to people all over the world, not just Philadelphia, Hampton or the US. There's a reason why if you ever walk around in Philadelphia, you'll see a familiar jersey every 5 minutes. There's a reason why people all over the world speak of Iverson and love and respect him as if he was one of their own. There's a reason why the entire franchise of the 76ers was suddenly lifted by his very presence. With the exception of the fact that he will never be an NBA champion, Iverson's is a story that will never be marred as Kobe's story has been marred. Say what you will, curse Iverson's existence and spit on his name all that you want if it makes you feel good. It all stems from the fact that Kobe will never get this kind of adoration and respect, even if I will be the first person to admit that on many fronts, Kobe is Iverson's superior as a basketball player. Iverson knows when to let his confidence fuel his passion but also knows to defer to the greatest players the game has ever known, like Jordan, Magic, Isaiah, Bird and more recently Shaq, another reason why he is so loved.
> Justice will be served when in the annals of basketball history, Kobe goes down as a stunning player, yet a lost and forlorn individual, hated and despised much more than loved due to his arrogance, penchant for unnecessary drama and Shaq era titles. Iverson will go down as a champion who was never really a champion but who, in the war of life, faced the odds in the square in the face and beat them with the same ferocity that he beat the best defenses of his era night in and night out. He will be forever embraced as the incredible competitor whose talent was surpassed only by his determination and passion for the game. He will forever be one of the most loved, respected and idolized atheletes the world or any sport has ever seen. To judge a man of his character solely by his outward appearance is something sanctimonious bigots have always used to somehow justify their rage at the fact that a man so small can be such a giant and can command such love and respect.



First, let me say that I find the fact that you claim to respect Kevin Garnett (a freakin' basketball player) more than your own father, deeply troubling. 

Second, I didn't know that _"people all over the world speak of Iverson and love and respect him as if he was one of their own."_, that is certainly news to me. And as far as saying that _"His story is one that gives hope to people all over the world,"_ all i can say is :whofarted

Third, you have built up AI to be something MUCH bigger than he is. I like to think that people "love and respect" and "look up to" people a little more important than a basketball player. Let's get a little perspective here. 

Fourth, you say that you _"won't ever settle for a player of his heart living around the perimeter and shooting jumpshots all day when he's the greatest slasher, bar none, that the game has ever seen."_ yet you also say that _"for Iverson almost every hard drive in the lane is an injury waiting to derail his career. Yet the love of the game is all that matters to him and he cares nothing for the risks that come with engaging in dangerous physical battles with atheletes literally twice his size."_ So, which is it? Does he float around the perimeter too much or not?

Fifth, you say that _"He will forever be one of the most loved, respected and idolized atheletes the world or any sport has ever seen."_ To that I say, uhhh.... no. There are TONS of people who do not love, respect or idolize him. And I love how you threw "world" in there, again, you need to gain some perspective.

Sixth, do you want to marry AI? :laugh:


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## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

Max Payne said:


> I will never say that the tatoos or the jewelry is something I really admire or want my kids to have because they send out the wrong message to most people regardless of what era we live in. I will never say that I admire a lot of the things Iverson has said in the past and his past attitude towards practice. I will never say that I agree with the fact that he feels he's repaying his roots by giving money to his family members and friends from back in Hampton instead of helping them get educated about how to lead a better life and ensure that they can stay out of the ghetto forever. Lastly I won't ever settle for a player of his heart living around the perimeter and shooting jumpshots all day when he's the greatest slasher, bar none, that the game has ever seen. That's a lot of disapproval right there.
> 
> Yet there are reasons that I love and respect Iverson like I do few others. Call him a thug if it makes you feel good, like all those other sanctimonious sons of b*****s out there. Call him whatever you want if it helps you sleep at night. Yet there is no other superstar in this league who puts it all on the line like Iverson does. Not even Kevin Garnett, a player I respect as much as I do my own father. Iverson's infectious desire to be a champion and his dogged persistence is unbelievable. Night in and night out he takes a beating and plays through injuries because he lives on the game. All other superstars get superstar calls and ticky-tack textbook fouls, yet for Iverson almost every hard drive in the lane is an injury waiting to derail his career. Yet the love of the game is all that matters to him and he cares nothing for the risks that come with engaging in dangerous physical battles with atheletes literally twice his size. That kind of courage and passion is something that everyone can look up to. Iverson beat some unbelievable odds considering where he came from and the what he had to face as a child. Few players with the exception of a select few such as Jamaal Tinsley and Kevin Garnett can truly attest to beating these kinds of odds and becoming an international icon.
> Iverson had his issues during the early days but no one can question his heart, his desire or his competitiveness. His story is one that gives hope to people all over the world, not just Philadelphia, Hampton or the US. There's a reason why if you ever walk around in Philadelphia, you'll see a familiar jersey every 5 minutes. There's a reason why people all over the world speak of Iverson and love and respect him as if he was one of their own. There's a reason why the entire franchise of the 76ers was suddenly lifted by his very presence. With the exception of the fact that he will never be an NBA champion, Iverson's is a story that will never be marred as Kobe's story has been marred. Say what you will, curse Iverson's existence and spit on his name all that you want if it makes you feel good. It all stems from the fact that Kobe will never get this kind of adoration and respect, even if I will be the first person to admit that on many fronts, Kobe is Iverson's superior as a basketball player. Iverson knows when to let his confidence fuel his passion but also knows to defer to the greatest players the game has ever known, like Jordan, Magic, Isaiah, Bird and more recently Shaq, another reason why he is so loved.
> Justice will be served when in the annals of basketball history, Kobe goes down as a stunning player, yet a lost and forlorn individual, hated and despised much more than loved due to his arrogance, penchant for unnecessary drama and Shaq era titles. Iverson will go down as a champion who was never really a champion but who, in the war of life, faced the odds in the square in the face and beat them with the same ferocity that he beat the best defenses of his era night in and night out. He will be forever embraced as the incredible competitor whose talent was surpassed only by his determination and passion for the game. He will forever be one of the most loved, respected and idolized atheletes the world or any sport has ever seen. To judge a man of his character solely by his outward appearance is something sanctimonious bigots have always used to somehow justify their rage at the fact that a man so small can be such a giant and can command such love and respect.


Great post rep points given. :clap:


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## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

PauloCatarino said:


> Easy, Beax.
> Iverson is a punk.
> He is a wonderfully gifted basketball player.
> I love his game.
> ...


Tell that to the his face... then we'll see who exactly is the "punk".


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

LBJthefuturegoat said:


> Tell that to the his face... then we'll see who exactly is the "punk".


 :raised_ey This is exactly the kind of comment that you shouldn't be making.


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## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

madskillz1_99 said:


> :raised_ey This is exactly the kind of comment that you shouldn't be making.


Why is that because I have enough respect for people I don't even know personaly to call them a "punk" on an internet message board?


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

LBJthefuturegoat said:


> Why is that because I have enough respect for people I don't even know personaly to call them a "punk" on an internet message board?


No, because you're perpetuating the "AI is a Thug" image which is the very reason that the poster was calling him a punk.


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## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

madskillz1_99 said:


> No because you're perpetuated the AI is a Thug image which is the very reason that the poster was calling him a punk.


That's where you're wrong. I didn't say it because I thought he'd retaliate. In fact I don't think he would he's smarter than that. I said it because you'd be too ***** to say it to the mans face.


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

LBJthefuturegoat said:


> That's where you're wrong. I didn't say it because I thought he'd retaliate. In fact I don't think he would he's smarter than that. I said it because you'd be too ***** to say it to the mans face.


Hey, keep in mind that it wasn't me calling him a punk. 

anyways, no biggie, it's way past my bed time anyways.


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## Ps!ence_Fiction (Aug 1, 2004)

madskillz1_99 said:


> Second, I didn't know that _"people all over the world speak of Iverson and love and respect him as if he was one of their own."_, that is certainly news to me. And as far as saying that _"His story is one that gives hope to people all over the world,"_ all i can say is :whofarted


You really don't know anything about Iverson's life do you?



> Third, you have built up AI to be something MUCH bigger than he is. I like to think that people "love and respect" and "look up to" people a little more important than a basketball player. Let's get a little perspective here.


I think you downplay AI a bit too much. He isn't just loved and respected for his basketball talents (and by the way, lots of people, and I mean *LOTS* of people love and respect basketball/sports players and look up to them as idols), he is loved for the obstacles he has overcame throughout his life. Once again, learn about Iverson's story.



> Fourth, you say that you _"won't ever settle for a player of his heart living around the perimeter and shooting jumpshots all day when he's the greatest slasher, bar none, that the game has ever seen."_ yet you also say that _"for Iverson almost every hard drive in the lane is an injury waiting to derail his career. Yet the love of the game is all that matters to him and he cares nothing for the risks that come with engaging in dangerous physical battles with atheletes literally twice his size."_ So, which is it? Does he float around the perimeter too much or not?


He didn't say that he drives the lane every play once in that quote, he said every hard drive could end his career and he doesn't care about physical battles, but doesn't state once that he drives the lane every play. He does both really, driving and shooting. Also, this is kind of off-topic to the main objective of his post.



> Fifth, you say that _"He will forever be one of the most loved, respected and idolized atheletes the world or any sport has ever seen."_ To that I say, uhhh.... no. There are TONS of people who do not love, respect or idolize him. And I love how you threw "world" in there, again, you need to gain some perspective.


Yes you're right, there are a lot of people who don't like Iverson, and there are even those who downright hate Iverson, but these people know jack **** about Iverson and what he has been through. Like Max Payne said, you can't look at the exterior. People see him and think he's a thug, and judge him from that. He will be idolized, respected and loved by many people around the globe for a long time to come, not just for the unwordly things he's done on the basketball court, not just because he is barely 6 foot tall and still dominates, but because of the battle he has fought his entire life, a battle that he hasn't shyed away from, a battle that he won.


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## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

madskillz1_99 said:


> Hey, keep in mind that it wasn't me calling him a punk.
> 
> anyways, no biggie, it's way past my bed time anyways.


:laugh: my bad I got you mixed up sorry bout that.


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## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

madskillz1_99 said:


> First, let me say that I find the fact that you claim to respect Kevin Garnett (a freakin' basketball player) more than your own father, deeply troubling.
> 
> Second, I didn't know that _"people all over the world speak of Iverson and love and respect him as if he was one of their own."_, that is certainly news to me. And as far as saying that _"His story is one that gives hope to people all over the world,"_ all i can say is :whofarted
> 
> ...


 Oh boy. Here we go.

Until education had to become his primary focus, my father was a celebrated professional athelete who represented Bangladesh as a member of the national cricket team. His brother and cousins were hugely successful in domestic soccer leagues. My grandfather was an ace soccer player and swimmer himself and was a close friend of Brojen Das, the first man to swim across the English Channel. I myself have won school divison titles in cricket, soccer and basketball. As you can see, sports are a very big part of my family and it was only natural that I would not only have a huge passion for sports but would also come to greatly admire several sportsmen across different sports. When he came to America, my parents had to struggle to get by, having just been married, working odd jobs to pay the bills while they went to school. In the end after the years of hardship our family because successful and because of their noble sacrifices, I stand to become even more successful. This story is analogous to those of so many sports stars who had it rough but ultimately became success stories. There are many men that I respect as much as I respect my dad and Kevin Garnett being my favorite basketball player, just happens to be one of them. You find it "troubling" that I could admire Garnett that much ? I certainly don't and neither does my dad. They both had it rough for years on end, having to deal with deaths in the family, poverty and incredible odds. Garnett achieved what he did with his talent for basketball. My father achieved what he did with his talent for academics. The stories are near parallels, and I would know wouldn't I having seen everything first hand ? Or does the great Kobe Bryant worshipper have an irrefutable opinion to the contrary ? Exactly. Don't ever again find things that you have no idea about "troubling". 
So to the next points. Canadians might not care much for Iverson but see, I grew up in Bangladesh. If you ever talk to kids playing division basketball there, do you know what one of the first names is that pops up after "Jordan" or "Shaq" ? It's that player that Canadians might not have heard of but that player that people who play organised basketball in every other country do know. Allen Iverson. Not Kobe Bryant. Allen Iverson...and if a little country like Bangladesh can have all these kids who know and love Iverson, then can you imagine what it's like in all the other countries ? Learn a little bit more about the way countries outside Canada work before you make idiotic comments. 
Lastly about this business of gaining perspective...geez...this coming from a guy who won't even listen to the slightest criticism towards Kobe ? This coming from a guy who's likely to testify on Bryant's innocence even if he's raping Britney Spears in the middle of Times Square in broad daylight ? PLEASE ! I criticize Iverson plenty, ask anyone on the Sixers board. I'm not blind about Iverson, Garnett or any of my other favorites, unlike yourself. Stop being the kind of sanctimonious b***h that I refer to and stop making comments about posters whose backgrounds you know NOTHING about. Go back to putting the finishing touches on your latest Kobe love nest.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

Max Payne said:


> Oh boy. Here we go.
> 
> Until education had to become his primary focus, my father was a celebrated professional athelete who represented Bangladesh as a member of the national cricket team. His brother and cousins were hugely successful in domestic soccer leagues. My grandfather was an ace soccer player and swimmer himself and was a close friend of Brojen Das, the first man to swim across the English Channel. I myself have won school divison titles in cricket, soccer and basketball. As you can see, sports are a very big part of my family and it was only natural that I would not only have a huge passion for sports but would also come to greatly admire several sportsmen across different sports. When he came to America, my parents had to struggle to get by, having just been married, working odd jobs to pay the bills while they went to school. In the end after the years of hardship our family because successful and because of their noble sacrifices, I stand to become even more successful. This story is analogous to those of so many sports stars who had it rough but ultimately became success stories. There are many men that I respect as much as I respect my dad and Kevin Garnett being my favorite basketball player, just happens to be one of them. You find it "troubling" that I could admire Garnett that much ? I certainly don't and neither does my dad. They both had it rough for years on end, having to deal with deaths in the family, poverty and incredible odds. Garnett achieved what he did with his talent for basketball. My father achieved what he did with his talent for academics. The stories are near parallels, and I would know wouldn't I having seen everything first hand ? Or does the great Kobe Bryant worshipper have an irrefutable opinion to the contrary ? Exactly. Don't ever again find things that you have no idea about "troubling".
> So to the next points. Canadians might not care much for Iverson but see, I grew up in Bangladesh. If you ever talk to kids playing division basketball there, do you know what one of the first names is that pops up after "Jordan" or "Shaq" ? It's that player that Canadians might not have heard of but that player that people who play organised basketball in every other country do know. Allen Iverson. Not Kobe Bryant. Allen Iverson...and if a little country like Bangladesh can have all these kids who know and love Iverson, then can you imagine what it's like in all the other countries ? Learn a little bit more about the way countries outside Canada work before you make idiotic comments.
> Lastly about this business of gaining perspective...geez...this coming from a guy who won't even listen to the slightest criticism towards Kobe ? This coming from a guy who's likely to testify on Bryant's innocence even if he's raping Britney Spears in the middle of Times Square in broad daylight ? PLEASE ! I criticize Iverson plenty, ask anyone on the Sixers board. I'm not blind about Iverson, Garnett or any of my other favorites, unlike yourself. Stop being the kind of sanctimonious b***h that I refer to and stop making comments about posters whose backgrounds you know NOTHING about. Go back to putting the finishing touches on your latest Kobe love nest.


Lol! We've got a Bengali in our midst. Good **** man. I'm a son of Indian immigrants myself. Lol!


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Max Payne said:


> I will never say that the tatoos or the jewelry is something I really admire or want my kids to have because they send out the wrong message to most people regardless of what era we live in. I will never say that I admire a lot of the things Iverson has said in the past and his past attitude towards practice. I will never say that I agree with the fact that he feels he's repaying his roots by giving money to his family members and friends from back in Hampton instead of helping them get educated about how to lead a better life and ensure that they can stay out of the ghetto forever. Lastly I won't ever settle for a player of his heart living around the perimeter and shooting jumpshots all day when he's the greatest slasher, bar none, that the game has ever seen. That's a lot of disapproval right there.
> 
> Yet there are reasons that I love and respect Iverson like I do few others. Call him a thug if it makes you feel good, like all those other sanctimonious sons of b*****s out there. Call him whatever you want if it helps you sleep at night. Yet there is no other superstar in this league who puts it all on the line like Iverson does. Not even Kevin Garnett, a player I respect as much as I do my own father. Iverson's infectious desire to be a champion and his dogged persistence is unbelievable. Night in and night out he takes a beating and plays through injuries because he lives on the game. All other superstars get superstar calls and ticky-tack textbook fouls, yet for Iverson almost every hard drive in the lane is an injury waiting to derail his career. Yet the love of the game is all that matters to him and he cares nothing for the risks that come with engaging in dangerous physical battles with atheletes literally twice his size. That kind of courage and passion is something that everyone can look up to. Iverson beat some unbelievable odds considering where he came from and the what he had to face as a child. Few players with the exception of a select few such as Jamaal Tinsley and Kevin Garnett can truly attest to beating these kinds of odds and becoming an international icon.
> Iverson had his issues during the early days but no one can question his heart, his desire or his competitiveness. His story is one that gives hope to people all over the world, not just Philadelphia, Hampton or the US. There's a reason why if you ever walk around in Philadelphia, you'll see a familiar jersey every 5 minutes. There's a reason why people all over the world speak of Iverson and love and respect him as if he was one of their own. There's a reason why the entire franchise of the 76ers was suddenly lifted by his very presence. With the exception of the fact that he will never be an NBA champion, Iverson's is a story that will never be marred as Kobe's story has been marred. Say what you will, curse Iverson's existence and spit on his name all that you want if it makes you feel good. It all stems from the fact that Kobe will never get this kind of adoration and respect, even if I will be the first person to admit that on many fronts, Kobe is Iverson's superior as a basketball player. Iverson knows when to let his confidence fuel his passion but also knows to defer to the greatest players the game has ever known, like Jordan, Magic, Isaiah, Bird and more recently Shaq, another reason why he is so loved.
> Justice will be served when in the annals of basketball history, Kobe goes down as a stunning player, yet a lost and forlorn individual, hated and despised much more than loved due to his arrogance, penchant for unnecessary drama and Shaq era titles. Iverson will go down as a champion who was never really a champion but who, in the war of life, faced the odds in the square in the face and beat them with the same ferocity that he beat the best defenses of his era night in and night out. He will be forever embraced as the incredible competitor whose talent was surpassed only by his determination and passion for the game. [/B]He will forever be one of the most loved, respected and idolized atheletes the world or any sport has ever seen. To judge a man of his character solely by his outward appearance is something sanctimonious bigots have always used to somehow justify their rage at the fact that a man so small can be such a giant and can command such love and respect.[/B]


First of all, let me start to say this is a great post. :greatjob: 

I don´t know if it was a response to mey previous post, but if it was:

About AI, as i´ve stated previously, i love his game.
What i hate it´s his atitude.
Yes, AI gives it all out there. He is fiercely competitive and has a lot of heart.
That's not incommum in the NBA. I can think of at least a dozen players out of my head who equal his drive, like MJ, Larry, Mullin, KJ, Tiny, Pistol, Magic etc., etc.
But my beef with him ain't that.
Nor it is his "appearence", as you rediculously implied. I don't give a damn about tatoos or rows (or i would want to kill Cherokee Parks!).

My beef with him is his act. Yes, it troubles me when a multimillionaire goes around waving guns. It troubles me when a guy who wears more money around his neck than most americans would earn in a year goes around talking about "keeping it real". It troubles me when a public figure has a racist and homophobic speech. And i don't think i should go any further with this...

Look, you can idolatrize (sp?) Iverson all you want. It's your right. But you are going way (as in WAYYYY) overboard with it.

When i see a player that has to retire and live with HIV, or a boxer who was the symbol of the black man's fight in America, or a cyclist that has to overcome cancer, or a soccer player that came from the poorest place on Earth to become the best in the world, when i see a chess player that was so brilliant people still talk about his games 30 years after (and many, many other examples) i can´t keep from thinking that you are clearly wrong about AI's "impact" and "respect" over the world.

I also see that you think i diss AI because i'm a Kobe fan. Not true. With Kobe, it's also the same: love his game, hate his atitude. I think he is a selfish, egotistical, underachieving player.

But both with AI and Kobe, what i think of their acts doesn't matter. What it matters is how they perform in the court. And there, both AI and Kobe are great, great players.


Just to clarify.


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

PauloCatarino said:


> First of all, let me start to say this is a great post. :greatjob:
> 
> I don´t know if it was a response to mey previous post, but if it was:
> 
> ...



What he said.


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## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

PauloCatarino said:


> First of all, let me start to say this is a great post. :greatjob:
> 
> I don´t know if it was a response to mey previous post, but if it was:
> 
> ...


 You're definitely right. Iverson provides a source of amazement for people who have seen him play and that is where the respect comes from. You'll notice that I didn't talk about the LEVEL of love that people have. There are many of my former team-mates even who were crazy about him as an athelete but thought he was a big thug, which I understand. It's the price Iverson chose to pay the day he embraced what is now his image.
Muhammad Ali, Lance Armstrong and so many others are atheletes who will always be remembered for their contributions as great individuals and not just sportsmen in the world and that is the difference between them and Iverson. Sure it would be great if one day Iverson becomes a world leader in civic rights and funds loads of charities. That will give all of us more reasons to like him. I agree with you.


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## Ps!ence_Fiction (Aug 1, 2004)

PauloCatarino said:


> First of all, let me start to say this is a great post. :greatjob:
> 
> I don´t know if it was a response to mey previous post, but if it was:
> 
> ...


See, the thing I respect about Iverson is that he's not afraid to show where he's from. He is the only player in any professional sport that has stayed true to the image he grew up in. The fact that he has a gun doesn't surprise me (and it wouldn't surprise me if half the league had guns) because when he was growing up, he needed a gun to survive, and like I said, he's staying true to the image he was put into (also don't blow this out of proportion and say something like "would you respect him if he shot or robbed someone?"). Also the fact that you said you don't like him because he wears expensive jewelary, means that you should hate about half of the league. Also if you think Iverson thinks he's a thug, you are far from right. He doesn't think hes a thug, and he doesn't want to be known as a thug. Also, since when has Iverson had a racist and homophobic speech? Do you mean his rap CD? If that's true then you must also hate pretty much every rapper alive (and almost every rapper in the past 10 years for that matter). Also, why is it overboard to really idolize Iverson? He is also a symbol of going from nothing to something. This is a man who had his house flooded with knee-high sewage water when he was younger, and was too poor to fix it, this is a man who lost 6 of his best friends in one summer, this is a man who had no father, this is a man who grew up in the heart of the "ghetto," this is a man who lived with his basketball coach for some time because his house wasn't the best conditions, this is a man who was sent to jail on a racist undeserving sentence, and now this man is a superstar in the NBA. Why hate on that?


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Ps!ence_Fiction said:


> See, the thing I respect about Iverson is that he's not afraid to show where he's from. He is the only player in any professional sport that has stayed true to the image he grew up in. The fact that he has a gun doesn't surprise me (and it wouldn't surprise me if half the league had guns) because when he was growing up, he needed a gun to survive, and like I said, he's staying true to the image he was put into (also don't blow this out of proportion and say something like "would you respect him if he shot or robbed someone?"). Also the fact that you said you don't like him because he wears expensive jewelary, means that you should hate about half of the league. Also if you think Iverson thinks he's a thug, you are far from right. He doesn't think hes a thug, and he doesn't want to be known as a thug. Also, since when has Iverson had a racist and homophobic speech? Do you mean his rap CD? If that's true then you must also hate pretty much every rapper alive (and almost every rapper in the past 10 years for that matter). Also, why is it overboard to really idolize Iverson? He is also a symbol of going from nothing to something. This is a man who had his house flooded with knee-high sewage water when he was younger, and was too poor to fix it, this is a man who lost 6 of his best friends in one summer, this is a man who had no father, this is a man who grew up in the heart of the "ghetto," this is a man who lived with his basketball coach for some time because his house wasn't the best conditions, this is a man who was sent to jail on a racist undeserving sentence, and now this man is a superstar in the NBA. Why hate on that?


I would prefer Allen Iverson's past difficulties would make him see things in a more positive manner. Now that he is a multi-millionaire and all.
Many people had to face worse turmoil growing up and turned out pretty good role-models. 

why can't he?


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## Ps!ence_Fiction (Aug 1, 2004)

PauloCatarino said:


> I would prefer Allen Iverson's past difficulties would make him see things in a more positive manner. Now that he is a multi-millionaire and all.
> Many people had to face worse turmoil growing up and turned out pretty good role-models.
> 
> why can't he?


First things first, who are the many people who have faced worse turmoil then him?

And why is Iverson not a good role model? Because he has tattoos, cornrows and jewelary? Because he has a gun (which like I said, most NBA players probably do)? Because he made a rap CD? Because he is apparently a "punk"?


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Ps!ence_Fiction said:


> First things first, who are the many people who have faced worse turmoil then him?


Ever heard of stephen hawkins? Romário? Mané Garrincha? should i proceed to the survivors of the Holocaust?


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## Ps!ence_Fiction (Aug 1, 2004)

PauloCatarino said:


> Ever heard of stephen hawkins? Romário? Mané Garrincha? should i proceed to the survivors of the Holocaust?


sorry, I was just thinking about basketball/professional sports players

EDIT: sorry forgot to add this; so why isn't Iverson a role model again?


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Ps!ence_Fiction said:


> sorry, I was just thinking about basketball/professional sports players


Romário and Garrincha are.

But i guess we'll just have to agree in disagreeing...


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Ps!ence_Fiction said:


> EDIT: sorry forgot to add this; so why isn't Iverson a role model again?


See my previous posts. And it has nothing to do with tatoos or 'rows...


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## Ps!ence_Fiction (Aug 1, 2004)

PauloCatarino said:


> Romário and Garrincha are.
> 
> But i guess we'll just have to agree in disagreeing...


Ok sorry, didn't know that (I was even going to ask you if they were)

And you never really clarified why Iverson is not a role-model except for saying its not the 'rows or tattoos


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## Nique21 (Jan 12, 2005)

There are like 6 different topics on this board that have to do with Kobe, I get them all mixed up. You have "Chucky Atkins disses Kobe", "Iverson on Kobe", "Kobe eats Wheat Chex for cerial...thoughts?", "Anyone see Kobe at the Sin City premiere?", "Kobe >>> Sasser", and the infamous "10 reasons why Kobe thinks I'm cute"

Can we make a permanent Kobe Bryant thread, I think it would be a super duper idea :clap:


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## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

Ps!ence_Fiction said:


> Ok sorry, didn't know that (I was even going to ask you if they were)
> 
> And you never really clarified why Iverson is not a role-model except for saying its not the 'rows or tattoos


 Say Paul, I'm a huge soccer fan and I was wondering since you're from Portugal, can you tell me how most people feel about Figo and the kind of background that he comes from ? Thanks, even though this is kinda off topic.


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

The truth is Iverson is a glorified thug. He's a helluva basketball player, but he acts tough to referees. C'mon now...how tough is that? The guy is a wimp. He is like the neighborhood midget who huffs and puffs and clicks his boots and spits on the ground when you walk by, but he still is a wimp.


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## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

compsciguy78 said:


> The truth is Iverson is a glorified thug. He's a helluva basketball player, but he acts tough to referees. C'mon now...how tough is that? The guy is a wimp. He is like the neighborhood midget who huffs and puffs and clicks his boots and spits on the ground when you walk by, but he still is a wimp.


:nonono:


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

AI threatened the lives of two people with a gun hanging out in his pocket as he trespassed on private propert a couple years ago. Supposedly because his wife was missing (like he couldn't call the police?). I love AI's game and think he's a cool guy, but let's not kid ourselves, there's plenty of reason to think he's a punk.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

EHL said:


> AI threatened the lives of two people with a gun hanging out in his pocket as he trespassed on private propert a couple years ago. Supposedly because his wife was missing (like he couldn't call the police?). I love AI's game and think he's a cool guy, but let's not kid ourselves, there's plenty of reason to think he's a punk.


proof? link? how do you know? do you believe everything that the crooked sportscenter says.....sounds familiar eh?

However, when theres all these kobe bashing stories from sportscenter and other media, you dismiss them as rubbish and question their validity. your logic makes no sense at all.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

Nique21 said:


> Can we make a permanent Kobe Bryant thread, I think it would be a super duper idea :clap:


What if there was zero Kobe threads??? :jawdrop: 

Think of all the free time that would clear up for ya.


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## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

EHL said:


> AI threatened the lives of two people with a gun hanging out in his pocket as he trespassed on private propert a couple years ago. Supposedly because his wife was missing (like he couldn't call the police?). I love AI's game and think he's a *cool guy*, but let's not kid ourselves, there's plenty of reason to think he's a *punk*.


:nonono:

AI is not a punk he is just a man with flaws just like everyone else. I don't label anyone. He is what he is nothing different. He doesn't try to maintain an image of a person he is not(Kobe). In the end athletes have problems but one you'd crucify and others you still worship. So he's a cool guy and a punk I don't get it. You say he's a cool guy just to make it seem like you don't have anything against him. It's kinda like when a racist says "I'm not a racist some of my best friends are black." Talk bad about his game but leave him as a person alone he hasn't hurt anyone and he does more good for the community than most ever do.


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## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

jc76ers said:


> proof? link? how do you know? do you believe everything that the crooked sportscenter says.....sounds familiar eh?
> 
> However, when theres all these kobe bashing stories from sportscenter and other media, you dismiss them as rubbish and question their validity. your logic makes no sense at all.


:rotf: :rofl:

You noticed that too. He still doesn't believe Kobe said Shaq's name to the police, and Kobe was going to apologize for it.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

LBJthefuturegoat said:


> :nonono:
> 
> AI is not a punk he is just a man with flaws just like everyone else. I don't label anyone. He is what he is nothing different. He doesn't try to maintain an image of a person he is not(Kobe).


I didn't say he was a punk. Read what I wrote. 



> In the end athletes have problems but one you'd crucify and others you still worship. So he's a cool guy and a punk I don't get it. You say he's a cool guy just to make it seem like you don't have anything against him.


I don't have anything against him. I don't know him, he hasn't done anything to hurt me personally or really said anything bad about me or things I like. I have little reason to hate him or anything like that. As I clearly stated.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

LBJthefuturegoat said:


> :rotf: :rofl:
> 
> You noticed that too. He still doesn't believe Kobe said Shaq's name to the police, and Kobe was going to apologize for it.


Damn, you really did just start watching basketball last huh? LOL. 



jc76ers said:


> proof? link? how do you know? do you believe everything that the crooked sportscenter says.....sounds familiar eh?


I believe he was convicted on two counts of terrorist threats and did probation and jail time. I can't find a recent article on that though, so I can't confirm.


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## LBJthefuturegoat (Nov 13, 2004)

EHL said:


> Damn, you really did just start watching basketball *last* huh? LOL.


I would respond but that sentence makes not sense at all.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

jc76ers said:


> proof? link? how do you know? do you believe everything that the crooked sportscenter says.....sounds familiar eh?
> 
> However, when theres all these kobe bashing stories from sportscenter and other media, you dismiss them as rubbish and question their validity. your logic makes no sense at all.


You ever think no one's logic makes sense to you because your opinion is the only logical explaination in your mind.


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## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

EHL said:


> Damn, you really did just start watching basketball last huh? LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe he was convicted on two counts of terrorist threats and did probation and jail time. I can't find a recent article on that though, so I can't confirm.


 The only thing Iverson ever went to jail for was when he was wrongly convicted of assault and battery in a very racy setting where a group of his black friends got into a fight in a bowling alley with a group of white guys. Iverson was accused, convicted and sent to jail. The decision was later repealed by the governor of the state and Iverson was rightly released from incarceration.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

Iverson was released because he had some influencial people in high places that wanted his a$$ on the basketball court. If it wasn't for that, he would have served the time.


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## tatahbenitez (Jun 18, 2004)

IV said:


> Iverson was released because he had some influencial people in high places that wanted his a$$ on the basketball court. If it wasn't for that, he would have served the time.


I think there is someone here who doesn't like AI too much. :curse:


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

tatahbenitez said:


> I think there is someone here who doesn't like AI too much. :curse:


Iverson is one of my favorite players. It says so in my profile. That's also one of the reasons why I know these things to be true. Where I live is apart of a metropolitian area that covered alot of Iverson's trouble with the law. If it weren't for his athletic talent, no one would have taken the time to find out whether Iverson had any role in what happened that night.


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## Nique21 (Jan 12, 2005)

jc76ers said:


> proof? link? how do you know? do you believe everything that the crooked sportscenter says.....sounds familiar eh?
> 
> However, when theres all these kobe bashing stories from sportscenter and other media, you dismiss them as rubbish and question their validity. your logic makes no sense at all.


Exactly. It's the typical Double-Standard from Laker fans. Cops can tell us that Iverson held 2 people at gunpoint and the Cops can tell us that Kobe ratted out Shaq to them, yet they only believe one of the stories from the cops :raised_ey


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

Nique21 said:


> Exactly. It's the typical Double-Standard from Laker fans. Cops can tell us that Iverson held 2 people at gunpoint and the Cops can tell us that Kobe ratted out Shaq to them, yet they only believe one of the stories from the cops :raised_ey


I'm a laker fan and I can believe both.


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## Nique21 (Jan 12, 2005)

IV said:


> I'm a laker fan and I can believe both.


 :eek8: I think I see a Rainbow...


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Nique21 said:


> Exactly. It's the typical Double-Standard from Laker fans. Cops can tell us that Iverson held 2 people at gunpoint and the Cops can tell us that Kobe ratted out Shaq to them, yet they only believe one of the stories from the cops :raised_ey


Yeah, Nique, and only you can say that both things are similar... :cheers: 

Love the coherence (sp?) in your posts... 


BTW, don't you think you should change your screenname (for Dominique wouldn' like your Kobe-hating)?

I've got some examples for you:

IhateKobeB;
KobeIsaRat;
KobeSucks (or the more hip KobeSux);
EatMeKobe;
BallHoggingKobe (or go a step further with BallsHoggingKobe);
SissyKobe;
KobeBlows;
ColoradoKobe;
Mini-Jordan-Kobe;
IHateYourGutsKobe;
DropDeadKobe.

What do you think?


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Nique21 said:


> Exactly. It's the typical Double-Standard from Laker fans. Cops can tell us that Iverson held 2 people at gunpoint and the Cops can tell us that Kobe ratted out Shaq to them, yet they only believe one of the stories from the cops :raised_ey


Why do you keep replying to this thread, you were already brutally owned. :laugh:


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

EHL said:


> Why do you keep replying to this thread, you were already brutally owned. :laugh:


no he wasn't. he just agreed with me. i'm still awaiting that link and article, or did you just make it up...or maybe you just started watching basketball 6 months ago?

don't like the taste of your own medicine heh?


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

jc76ers said:


> no he wasn't. he just agreed with me. i'm still awaiting that link and article, or did you just make it up...or maybe you just started watching basketball 6 months ago?
> 
> don't like the taste of your own medicine heh?


What own medicine? Remember when you said Kobe told the public he didn't rape that girl, and that he recanted on that when he was charged a few days later? Remember you kept saying that that was true...until a ridiculously easy google search proved you wrong? Haha, now *that* was funny. :laugh:

No, but seriously, here's the latest article I can find on Iverson: http://www.nbc4.com/news/1594667/detail.html


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

^ That's not to mention AI's past, which is pretty chalk full of questionable criminal activity (though some of it when he was pretty young).


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## Nique21 (Jan 12, 2005)

EHL said:


> Why do you keep replying to this thread, you were already brutally owned. :laugh:


Funny...Speaking of "Brutally owned", here is a nice little batch of posts by EHL to embarrass him for a while

I call this, "EHL's Silly...Yet Really Dumb Posts!" :banana: 



> (October 13th, 2004) "Shouldn't you be in the Bulls forum asking your buddies which lottery pick they'll get this year?"


Ha...owned



> (October 24th, 2004)"No, I don't think the Suns have a shot. They have one of the worst coaches in the league. Even when Amare was healthy and Marbury was on the team last season they were terrible, and there was no reason for them to be terrible knowing that they had just come off their most successful postseason in recent memory. You'll need to bank on Amare improving a lot this season for the Suns to have a shot. I'd say the Pacific division banner is safely with the Kings unless they get injured or unless the Lakers make a late season run. "


Interesting...owned



> (November 6th, 2004)"The Suns probably won't make the playoffs. Win the Pacific? Can I come here and make fun of you when you're wrong?"


Sure, too bad you wont get the chance...owned



> "Kobe's been the team leader since 2001"


Laughable



> (November 18th, 2004)"Heat are now 0-3 against the West. Or is it 0-4?"


Or is it 17-11?...owned



> (November 18th, 2004 "Kobe's on his way to surpassing Jordan. It's only a matter of time."


Let's all take a moment to laugh



> (November 17th, 2004) "Kobe's already better than Jordan. Wade and LeBron aren't even close, and never will be. Question is, how much greater will Kobe be than Jordan by the time his career is up? I'm guessing 4 MVPs, 7 titles, and all the other usual mumbo jumbo."


....Take a deep breath and laugh again



> (November 22nd, 2004)"Kobe's FG% will go up and he'll be putting up 30-7-7 on 45% shooting"


Boy...you're good!...owned



> (November 22nd, 2004) "Kobe's already making his teammates much better, it'll be a matter of time before he gets back to 45%+. Hell, it could happen by next week. I'll be sure to let you know about it."


I still havent gotten your call yet...did you lose the phone number?



> (November 22nd, 2004) "Shaq is shooting a career low percentage and career low ppg. He's on the decline, and is constantly injured. The guy's done."


Point....Laugh...Owned



> (November 24th, 2004)"Kobe's already better at 26 than Jordan. Most of Jordan's accomplishments were because he was the most protected player in league history. The sooner you deal with reality, the better."


Point...Laugh some more...Owned



> "Why bother responding to this kiddy? He thinks Duncan didn't play with much talent when he won in 99 and 03, and says *Kobe needs to play with a great player to win*"


Has he proven otherwise?



> "Yes, indeed I can. I can also say decrepit, out of shape, and oh yes...DONE!"


btw, That was him commenting on Shaq. You can laugh hard now...



> (November 24th, 2004) "Good for the Heat, they’ll lose in the first round with Wade taking more shots than Shaq. And believe me, he won’t be shooting 54% by then, not even close, LMAO"


Never gets old embarrassing you


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

nique21, that is one of the best posts i read all year!!

good job! of course, he'll probably just deny that he made those postings...or say something like....'incorrect'


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## Nique21 (Jan 12, 2005)

jc76ers said:


> nique21, that is one of the best posts i read all year!!
> 
> good job! of course, he'll probably just deny that he made those postings...or say something like....'incorrect'


Thanks, and yes he probably will say something like "Incorrect", because we all know how he loves to sound like an intelligent poet, but if he denies that he posted any of that, then he will soon lose any reputation he once had, because I have proof from all of these posts of his, I could easily post the links to the posts if he denies it


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## Max Payne (Mar 2, 2004)

IV said:


> Iverson is one of my favorite players. It says so in my profile. That's also one of the reasons why I know these things to be true. Where I live is apart of a metropolitian area that covered alot of Iverson's trouble with the law. If it weren't for his athletic talent, no one would have taken the time to find out whether Iverson had any role in what happened that night.


 Iverson's mother appealed to the governor of the state who had the case reopened and it was proven that Iverson was innocent, which led to the the case being repealed. Sure Iverson being an amazing athelete have something to do with it...yet it was only a reinforcer to the FACT that it was proven that he did not take part in the fight. In fact the moment it started, one of his friends seized AI and took him outside the bowling club just so Iverson wouldn't be involved in any way. Yet since he was the most high profile member of the group, obviously the attention went towards him. If you're suggesting that the governor repealed the case without a legal green light, i.e Iverson's innocence, that's absurd because something like that might happen in a country where lawlessness is rampant but not in the US. Do you think the families of those who were injured ( I believe there were multiple concussions and someone having their collar bone broken from being hit by a chair) would just sit around and let that happen ? These were influential and wealthy folks who had a lot more "connections" than Iverson's family could dream of having.


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

I'm sure that Iverson had a tough childhood. But let's be honest here, in the grand scheme of life he is one of the lucky ones, the VERY lucky ones, so let's not feel too sorry for him and his hundreds of millions.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> (November 17th, 2004) "Kobe's already better than Jordan. Wade and LeBron aren't even close, and never will be. Question is, how much greater will Kobe be than Jordan by the time his career is up? I'm guessing 4 MVPs, 7 titles, and all the other usual mumbo jumbo."





> (November 18th, 2004 "Kobe's on his way to surpassing Jordan. It's only a matter of time."





> (November 22nd, 2004) "Shaq is shooting a career low percentage and career low ppg. He's on the decline, and is constantly injured. The guy's done."





> (November 24th, 2004)"Kobe's already better at 26 than Jordan. Most of Jordan's accomplishments were because he was the most protected player in league history. The sooner you deal with reality, the better."





> "Yes, indeed I can. I can also say decrepit, out of shape, and oh yes...DONE!"


LMAO! You _still_ can’t tell the difference between my posts at RealGM versus my posts here, just amazing. Since sarcasm and hyperbole seem to be completely lost on that sharp mind of yours, I suggest sticking to those boards, they seem more your speed. But seriously, thanks for the laughs, I didn’t think someone could be so far gone from reality that they’d take a post about Kobe winning seven more titles and four MVPs seriously. :rotf: 

But anyway, let’s get on to actual predictions, lol…



> (October 13th, 2004) "Shouldn't you be in the Bulls forum asking your buddies which lottery pick they'll get this year?"


Yup, I was wrong about the Bulls. Not hard to admit. 

Just for kicks, what was your prediction again? 



> (October 24th, 2004)"No, I don't think the Suns have a shot. They have one of the worst coaches in the league. Even when Amare was healthy and Marbury was on the team last season they were terrible, and there was no reason for them to be terrible knowing that they had just come off their most successful postseason in recent memory. You'll need to bank on Amare improving a lot this season for the Suns to have a shot. I'd say the Pacific division banner is safely with the Kings unless they get injured or unless the Lakers make a late season run. "


You own yourself on just your second try, classic! I said they’d need to bank on Amare improving a lot this season, and scoring 26 ppg on 56% shooting from the floor is certainly improving a lot (and more FTMPG this year to boot). And of course, who here predicted during preseason the Suns were going to be one of the best teams in the league? Certainly not you (but of course, you didn’t make _any_ predictions, you were still too busy talking about Kobe). 



> [on Kobe leading post 2001] Laughable.


No, truth. 



> Or is it 17-11?...owned


Hate to break it to you, but that Heat record was 100% accurate when I posted it, there is nothing to “own” here. Add the numbers up on that date, not hard to do. FYI, you’re actually supposed to prove someone wrong when you “own” them. :laugh:



> - (November 22nd, 2004)"Kobe's FG% will go up and he'll be putting up 30-7-7 on 45% shooting"
> 
> - (November 22nd, 2004) "Kobe's already making his teammates much better, it'll be a matter of time before he gets back to 45%+. Hell, it could happen by next week. I'll be sure to let you know about it."


lol, so instead of 30/7/7/45% it’s 28.2/6/6/43.1%. You got me son! 

Oh, and FYI, the year still isn’t even over. :laugh:



> [on Kobe winning without Shaq] Has he proven otherwise?


Through _61_ games. :laugh:



> (November 24th, 2004) "Good for the Heat, they’ll lose in the first round with Wade taking more shots than Shaq. And believe me, he won’t be shooting 54% by then, not even close, LMAO"


Wade is taking more shots than Shaq and he’s shooting under 48%. Oh, and that was yet another RGM post. Just sad you can't reference anything of relevance on a board I actually take seriously; e.g., this one. 

Anyway, I honestly didn’t think it was possible for someone to own himself while trying to own _someone else_. That really does take a lot of talent though, so I’ve got to give it up to you. But seriously, it’s just plain sad that you spent this much time digging up old posts of predictions, and in the end the best you can come up with is that I didn’t correctly predict the Bulls wouldn’t be a lottery team. All the while you predicted….nothing. Oh but let me guess, you knew Seattle and Phoenix would be elite Western teams this year and the Bulls would be a 5th seed Eastern team? Haha, nope, too busy posting about your idol anti-christ Kobe. 

Hey, this was fun, I seriously look forward to another one of these. And please, make some predictions of your own, that should be tons of fun.


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## Nique21 (Jan 12, 2005)

Let's go through this again since you seem to believe that you have me owned, which you don't, you just fail to realize how much of a fool you look like right now with your excuses



> (October 13th, 2004) "Shouldn't you be in the Bulls forum asking your buddies which lottery pick they'll get this year?"


The funny part about that comment is the fact that the Bulls are actually in the playoffs right now, and the Lakers are the ones in the Lottery...Funny eh'?

As I keep going on, I'm trying to prove to you that even you make mistakes, you arent perfect on these Message Boards, yet you love to point out when anyone makes a mistake and makes a dumb prediction, which leads me to the next one...



> (November 6th, 2004)"The Suns probably won't make the playoffs. Win the Pacific? Can I come here and make fun of you when you're wrong?"


Now you see that? You got so arrogant that you actually thought the Suns would suck so you made an *** out of yourself and told the guy you would make fun of him when he is wrong, and the funny part is, he wasn't wrong, you were



> (November 18th, 2004)"Heat are now 0-3 against the West. Or is it 0-4?"


You may have been right at the time you made this comment, but looking back at it, you were obviously trying to make some point towards Heat fans that their team can't beat West teams, looking at the situation now, you are the one who looks like a fool



> (November 17th, 2004) "Kobe's already better than Jordan. Wade and LeBron aren't even close, and never will be. Question is, how much greater will Kobe be than Jordan by the time his career is up? I'm guessing 4 MVPs, 7 titles, and all the other usual mumbo jumbo."


With posts like these, there really is no excuse, but you make one anyone saying that you were just joking around...am I supposed to buy that? That's exactly what I thought you would say because there is nothing else to say other than you just got Owned. If you want to be taken seriously all the time like you seem to want to be, then stop making such stupid claims



> (November 24th, 2004) "Good for the Heat, they’ll lose in the first round with Wade taking more shots than Shaq. And believe me, he won’t be shooting 54% by then, not even close, LMAO"


You said "They would lose in the first round with Wade taking more shots than Shaq". Wade has taken more Shots than Shaq all season long and where has it gotten them? To the best record in the NBA this season. Do you actually still believe they will lose in the first round? I think we know who was bitter over the Shaq trade :banana: 

Another thing I noticed last night, I was looking at my beautiful post in this thread again and I noticed you were browsing in this thread as well...so what happened? You were looking at the thread for a good 15 minutes and then you left. Did you have to take your time to think of some excuses or to seem to make yourself look good by saying I got owned when you're clearly blind? Whatever floats your boat

Reality Check, even you look dumb sometimes


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Nique21 said:


> Let's go through this again since you seem to believe that you have me owned, which you don't, you just fail to realize how much of a fool you look like right now with your excuses


This should be fun. :laugh:



> The funny part about that comment is the fact that the Bulls are actually in the playoffs right now, and the Lakers are the ones in the Lottery...Funny eh'?


Yes, as I said before, I was wrong about how good the Bulls would be this year. And indeed, you predicted absolutely nothing regarding the Bulls, making your opinion on my prediction worthless. 

And it's really not surprising, things change drastically. The Lakers lost Kobe for 14 games and Vlade for the season. The Bulls have stayed relatively healthy all season and Gordon performed much better than anticipated as a rookie. Even Bulls fans were convinced after week 2 that the Bulls would be in the lottery. Are you going to call them idiots for thinking otherwise? Do you even know what the Bulls record was through the first couple weeks? I bet you didn't, until now (0-9). 



> As I keep going on, I'm trying to prove to you that even you make mistakes,


Indeed, I admit I was pretty much dead wrong about the Bulls. 



> you arent perfect on these Message Boards, yet you love to point out when anyone makes a mistake and makes a dumb prediction,


Depends on the prediction. There are dumb predictions and then there is trolling. You troll on this board, plain and simple. 



> Now you see that? You got so arrogant that you actually thought the Suns would suck so you made an *** out of yourself and told the guy you would make fun of him when he is wrong, and the funny part is, he wasn't wrong, you were


I had already stated my opinion on the Suns; if Amare improved a great deal this season (which I didn't think he would in just _one_ season), the Suns would have a chance at the Pacific, which obviously means they'd be a top 3 seed. So yes, I was wrong in that one brief statement, but your point becomes invalid when you consider the fact that I had already expanded on my opinion about the Suns' chances beforehand. But yes, I was mostly wrong about the Suns, I didn't think they'd be so damn good this year. But what's to feel sorry about, 95% of knowledgeable basketball fans thought they'd at best be a decent Western playoff team. I'm not in the least bit embarassed about not predicting that accurately, you just can't predict the future all the time or even most of the time, you can only make logical arguments. Logically, if we all knew Amare was going to score 26 ppg on 56% and get to the line 10 times a game before the season started, we'd change our opinions on the Suns. There were some people that said they'd be great, and they made good arguments, and were right. I'm sorry you didn't like the way I stated my opinion, I'll try to be nicer in the future. 



> You may have been right at the time you made this comment, but looking back at it, you were obviously trying to make some point towards Heat fans that their team can't beat West teams, looking at the situation now, you are the one who looks like a fool


How? Who did the Heat add between that comment until today? Here's the list; Anderson (perimeter defender/energy bench player), Laettner (utility big man that can rebound and distribute in limited minutes), Steve Smith (spot up shooter/scorer), Zo (defense and banging off the bench), etc. Wade turned into a superstar overnight and improved his jump shot greatly over the summer, with his shot gradually improving as the season wore on. Are you telling me *you* predicted those acquisitions and knew Wade would be first team eligible this season? Look, if I had said last week that the Heat would get swept in the first round then you'd have a point. That prediction was months before several acquistions not to mention the bloosming of Wade, the biggest factor to the Heat's success besides Shaq's normal play. 

Also, what IS the Heat's record versus the Western elite this year? I believe they're something like 1-1, 0-1, or 0-2 against the likes of the Suns, Spurs, Sonics, and Mavs or something like that. Someone posted the exact numbers a little while ago. 



> With posts like these, there really is no excuse,


Give me a break. What else can I say, if you *truly* believed that I was being serious when I said Kobe would win SEVEN more titles and FOUR MVPs before his career was over with....again, what more can be said? Should I have said 18 titles and 12 MVPs, would that have made my post more obviously sarcastic? And please, stick to this board, RGM is just blah. 



> but you make one anyone saying that you were just joking around...am I supposed to buy that?


Is there a logical reason why you shouldn't? A better question would be do you really believe those numbers are realistic? I certainly don't, that's why I posted that line over at RGM. 



> That's exactly what I thought you would say because there is nothing else to say other than you just got Owned.


Haha, you wish. Stick to the facts buddy, you can't admit it when you're clearly wrong. There's no way anyone would take that crap seriously. :uhoh:



> If you want to be taken seriously all the time like you seem to want to be, then stop making such stupid claims


I do want to be taken seriously…*on this board*. It’s truly perplexing that you don’t seem to be able to interpret this stuff, it’s pretty easy stuff. Really, really easy stuff. Especially knowing that I had to walk you through your same misinterpretations months ago. 

Are the differences between my posts here and there clear yet, or do I need to bold and italicize my thesis? 



> You said "They would lose in the first round with Wade taking more shots than Shaq". Wade has taken more Shots than Shaq all season long and where has it gotten them? To the best record in the NBA this season. Do you actually still believe they will lose in the first round? I think we know who was bitter over the Shaq trade :banana:


Hehe, what’s sad is that you can’t deny my FG% or shot per game contention. But anyway, no, I don’t know what else to tell you, I never thought the Heat were such a bad team that they’d lose in the first round. Reread the context of the conversation more carefully and maybe then you’ll understand its meaning. 



> Another thing I noticed last night, I was looking at my beautiful post in this thread again and I noticed you were browsing in this thread as well...so what happened? You were looking at the thread for a good 15 minutes and then you left. Did you have to take your time to think of some excuses or to seem to make yourself look good by saying I got owned when you're clearly blind? Whatever floats your boat


Haha, how cute, he wants to know what I did last night. You got me, I left my browner open all night while eating dinner and going out to a movie. What’s really funny here is that the “excuses” in this thread about my RGM posts were all explained to you long ago, so it actually took no time at all to retype what I had already told you months ago. Perhaps you’re having trouble remembering because you were under the Jewelz alias at the time? :laugh: 



> Reality Check, even you look dumb sometimes


Deliciously hypocritical. :rotf:


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

EHL said:


> Yes, as I said before, I was wrong about how good the Bulls would be this year.


lets see how many times your wrong....or at least you admit your wrong. thats 1




EHL said:


> And it's really not surprising, things change drastically. The Lakers lost Kobe for 14 games and Vlade for the season. The Bulls have stayed relatively healthy all season and Gordon performed much better than anticipated as a rookie. Even Bulls fans were convinced after week 2 that the Bulls would be in the lottery. Are you going to call them idiots for thinking otherwise? Do you even know what the Bulls record was through the first couple weeks? I bet you didn't, until now (0-9).


all i hear is....blah blah blah...excuses excuses...vlade was completely useless when lakers got him....everyone with a brain knows that. quit your crying about kobe missing 14 games. injuries are part of the game. and its only freaken 14 games for crying out loud. and besides, lakers played better without kobe during that stretch as shown in their win percentage. something like 46.4% without kobe compared to 46.2% with kobe. you should be glad he missed those games...





EHL said:


> Depends on the prediction. There are dumb predictions and then there is trolling. You troll on this board, plain and simple.


yeah, and your prediction was pretty dumb. didn't you predict the lakers to finish somewhere between 6-8th seed in the west. i guess you are wrong again. thats twice now.




EHL said:


> I had already stated my opinion on the Suns; if Amare improved a great deal this season (which I didn't think he would in just _one_ season), the Suns would have a chance at the Pacific, which obviously means they'd be a top 3 seed. So yes, I was wrong in that one brief statement, but your point becomes invalid when you consider the fact that I had already expanded on my opinion about the Suns' chances beforehand. But yes, I was mostly wrong about the Suns, I didn't think they'd be so damn good this year. But what's to feel sorry about, 95% of knowledgeable basketball fans thought they'd at best be a decent Western playoff team. I'm not in the least bit embarassed about not predicting that accurately, you just can't predict the future all the time or even most of the time, you can only make logical arguments. Logically, if we all knew Amare was going to score 26 ppg on 56% and get to the line 10 times a game before the season started, we'd change our opinions on the Suns. There were some people that said they'd be great, and they made good arguments, and were right. I'm sorry you didn't like the way I stated my opinion, I'll try to be nicer in the future.


once again excuses excuses excuses...if you actually had any basketball knowledge like you claim you do, you would have realized that amare was kicking some major butt at the end of last season. he average something like 28 ppg through the last 10 games. wrong again. that three times now.



EHL said:


> How? Who did the Heat add between that comment until today? Here's the list; Anderson (perimeter defender/energy bench player), Laettner (utility big man that can rebound and distribute in limited minutes), Steve Smith (spot up shooter/scorer), Zo (defense and banging off the bench), etc. Wade turned into a superstar overnight and improved his jump shot greatly over the summer, with his shot gradually improving as the season wore on. Are you telling me *you* predicted those acquisitions and knew Wade would be first team eligible this season? Look, if I had said last week that the Heat would get swept in the first round then you'd have a point. That prediction was months before several acquistions not to mention the bloosming of Wade, the biggest factor to the Heat's success besides Shaq's normal play.


more excuses. i can't believe you are blaming this one on scrub acquisitions. those guys have no impact on the team. the success of the heat is on wade and shaq, with some help from damon and eddie. your wrong 4 times now.





EHL said:


> Give me a break. What else can I say, if you *truly* believed that I was being serious when I said Kobe would win SEVEN more titles and FOUR MVPs before his career was over with....again, what more can be said? Should I have said 18 titles and 12 MVPs, would that have made my post more obviously sarcastic? And please, stick to this board, RGM is just blah.


yeah...you were serious. and quit twisting the words...you didn't say kobe would win seven MORE titles. you said seven titles and 4 MVPs total. he has 3 titles now and 0 MVPs. so its actually 4 more titles and 4 more MVPs. and with at least 10 more years of playing, i KNOW you think he is definitely capable of this. you ride his jock so much...how could you not???? quit playing the 'i was kidding' card. be a man and admit you were wrong again. whats that like 5 times now. boy, you sure are wrong a lot.


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## madskillz1_99 (Dec 5, 2004)

This business of quoting people's posts in little bits and responding to each little bit until the posts grow to be ridiculously long has got to stop!!! :curse: 

just my two cents!


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

jc76ers said:


> lets see how many times your wrong....or at least you admit your wrong. thats 1


Hey, you can count, I wonder what stopped you from doing that in this thread.. :laugh: 



> all i hear is....blah blah blah...excuses excuses...


That's not surprising, you don't read all that well. 



> vlade was completely useless when lakers got him....everyone with a brain knows that.


Nope, he was healthy until training camp. 



> quit your crying about kobe missing 14 games. injuries are part of the game.


Indeed, injuries are part of the game, and my predictions always take that into account. Look it up. 



> and its only freaken 14 games for crying out loud. and besides, lakers played better without kobe during that stretch as shown in their win percentage. something like 46.4% without kobe compared to 46.2% with kobe. you should be glad he missed those games...


LOL, refer to the mathematics lesson here. 



> yeah, and your prediction was pretty dumb. didn't you predict the lakers to finish somewhere between 6-8th seed in the west.


Yup, _if healthy_. Whoops, got it wrong again eh? :laugh:



> i guess you are wrong again.


Really, explain how? I won't be offended if you decide not to answer. 



> once again excuses excuses excuses...


Nope, just use your brain, it's simple logic. 



> if you actually had any basketball knowledge like you claim you do, you would have realized that amare was kicking some major butt at the end of last season. he average something like 28 ppg through the last 10 games. wrong again. that three times now.


So you predicted Amare would average 26 ppg on 56% shooting this season? Link? Nope, didn't think so. :rofl:



> more excuses. i can't believe you are blaming this one on scrub acquisitions. *those guys have no impact on the team.*


This coming from the guy that claims he has basketball knowledge. :laugh: 



> the success of the heat is on wade and shaq, with some help from damon and eddie. your wrong 4 times now.


Not really, considering I mentioned Wade's name as a major contributing factor. *Read* kid. This is a dozen times now that I've had to point out your lack of critical reading skills in a debate. 



> yeah...you were serious.


Haha, trusting your interpretation of words on the Internet is like trusting your interpretation of NBA basketball. I'll give you a hint; not good.



> nd quit twisting the words...you didn't say kobe would win seven MORE titles. you said seven titles and 4 MVPs total.


Could be interpreted either way, but either way that's not what I meant. Get it right. Or do we need math lessons _again_. :laugh: 



> he has 3 titles now and 0 MVPs.


I'm shocked you were able to count that far. 



> so its actually 4 more titles and 4 more MVPs.


Impressive. 



> and with at least 10 more years of playing, i KNOW you think he is definitely capable of this.


Playing until 36 years old at a high level is a stretch. And no, you don't "KNOW" anything. That much should be obvious to you by now, as no one here takes you the least bit seriously (well, Nique-like trolls do I'm sure). 



> you ride his jock so much...how could you not???? quit playing the 'i was kidding' card. be a man and admit you were wrong again. whats that like 5 times now. boy, you sure are wrong a lot.


Boy, you sure do suck at interpreting sentences. You sure you and Nique aren't long lost cousins?


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

ahhh....you refreshed my memory EHL. I remember more about you now. You were the 16 year old kid that:
1) never held a job before in your life
2) never owned a dictionary
3) had reading comprehension problems
4) chronic liar
5) EXTREMELY immature

lets see...you're reply is basically just a bunch of insults. I really tired of responding to immature people. you wanted to refer me to that link. yeah, so i miscounted 1 extra loss. its called calculations mistakes. at least, i am man enough to claim this. YOU, however, are a chronic liar. and lets see, even after that mistake, kobe still brings the team down. how come you don't comment on his 46.2% win percentage??? HMMMMM??? why is it lower than the lakers without kobes win percentage of 46.4%????????
hey, did you even get this riddle yet?? I doubt it. i gave you a hint....its a horoscope sign....okay, fine.....I'll give you the answer. I know you don't have the skills to look up 'horoscope' in the dictionary yet....oh wait...you don't own one. well, okay, i'll tell you the answer....cancer. what? you don't know what cancer means? ask daddy okay?


look...all i hear are a bunch of excuses from you. just STFU and say you were wrong. NO ONE wants to hear your crying explanations about kobe this and kobe that. or miami this and miami that. YOU WERE WRONG. you made a bold statement, and now you're paying for it. if you were right, you'd be all over this thread spreading your gospel. get over it. you're like a whimpering little girl....damn, it gets annoying.

dude...whatever happened to that picture that you had where you superimposed kobe's face into someones buff body and made it your avatar???


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

jc76ers said:


> ahhh....you refreshed my memory EHL. I remember more about you now. You were the 16 year old kid that:
> 1) never held a job before in your life
> 2) never owned a dictionary
> 3) had reading comprehension problems
> ...


:laugh: 



> lets see...you're reply is basically just a bunch of insults.


How? Read what I wrote and respond to what I wrote, it's really that simple. I *did* mention Wade has a major major contributor to the Heat this season. You avoided that point entirely. I *did* say that the Suns could win the Pacific if Amare made a big leap this season (he did, though I never would have imagined the Suns having the best record in the league at any point, that I was very surprised about). You ignored the Amare point. I *did not* truly believe Kobe Bryant would win 7 more titles and 4 MVPs by the end of his career, or that Jordan was only the GOAT because of the refs (sarcasm is really lost on you guys, you'd know better if you had read more than 5% of my posts here  ). Of course, I'm not sure you know anything about the RGM boards so I don't know why you're bothering to reply to those posts.

You could have answered those good points if you agreed or disagreed with them, and that would have been fine. But instead you ignored them completely, and you got called on it, which is why you got called on the reading comp stuff. 



> I really tired of responding to immature people. you wanted to refer me to that link. yeah, so i miscounted 1 extra loss.


Yeah, you did, and you claimed for several posts that you were right despite constant assurances that your math was off. Oh, and even better, you decided to tell us that we were wrong. 



> its called calculations mistakes. at least, i am man enough to claim this. YOU, however, are a chronic liar.


How? Why? What purpose does it serve to lie on the Internet? None. If you want to actually argue about something then do so. Trolling a board will result in harsh anti-troll posts. Good posts with honest analysis and questions will receive honest answers and debate. It's really as simple as that. You can do that here on BBB.net, though rarely on RGM (and of course, that was my whole point from the beginning, those "Jordan was great cause of the refs" posts were just sarcastic bait posts for RGM'ers, nothing more and nothing less). 



> and lets see, even after that mistake, kobe still brings the team down. how come you don't comment on his 46.2% win percentage??? HMMMMM??? why is it lower than the lakers without kobes win percentage of 46.4%????????


Oy. This is exactly why your reading comp is questioned. This has _already been explained_. See the links in my previous post, they detail the horrible teams the Lakers played without Kobe as well as their home-heavy schedule. Oh, and of course the most obvious reasoning (which I forgot to mention before); it was a 14 game sample in the middle of one regular season (where their coach quit no less), it's too small a sample size to begin with. It's like say the Cavs are about as good without LeBron because they're 1-1 without him and 37-34 overall. Of course, that would be a plain idiotic comment, even if the Cavs went 5-1 without him.



> hey, did you even get this riddle yet?? I doubt it. i gave you a hint....its a horoscope sign....okay, fine.....I'll give you the answer. I know you don't have the skills to look up 'horoscope' in the dictionary yet....oh wait...you don't own one. well, okay, i'll tell you the answer....cancer. what? you don't know what cancer means? ask daddy okay?


lol, is that the best you can come up with, "cancer"? When all reasoning, logic, and mathematics fail, I guess it's back to one word characterizations with absolutely no basis in reality for you. Indeed, a cancer with 3 titles and 4 Finals appearances in 5 years. You're just too easy to argue with, it's almost boring at this point. 



> look...all i hear are a bunch of excuses from you.


Nope, just reasoning. You have yet to come up with any real evidence, numbers, or just a single solitary argument period. Your best shot so far is "cancer". Brilliant incite. :laugh: 



> just STFU and say you were wrong.


That would be lying. 



> NO ONE wants to hear your crying explanations about kobe this and kobe that.


No really, it's just the opposite; if posters want to learn more about a player, any player, they're most definitely not going to ask someone who doesn't watch the NBA. That's just how it goes, deal with it jc. If you ordered League Pass and committed some real time to watching as many NBA teams as possible, sure, your convictions will be taken with a few less grains of salt. 



> or miami this and miami that. YOU WERE WRONG.


lol, we're on post # 186 and you're still lacking any content or logical support whatsoever. Sad. 



> you made a bold statement, and now you're paying for it. if you were right, you'd be all over this thread spreading your gospel. get over it.


Nope, if I was right I'd be right. Either way, I wouldn't be priding myself on instigating trolling, as you seem to love to do apparently. 



> you're like a whimpering little girl....


I'd really rather not hear about how women react to your advances. 



> dude...whatever happened to that picture that you had where you superimposed kobe's face into someones buff body and made it your avatar???


Who cares, give it up, you've lost and lost badly. Admit defeat or continue to be thrashed with rational thought. And for god sakes, take those reading comp class suggestions seriously, I wasn't kidding.


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