# OT - GM Challenge (Survivor Style)



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*OT - GM Challenge (Survivor Style) ROUND 3*

This is a fun little game I found on the "other" board. I wanted to do this in a Bulls community environment, and it will also be interesting to see who favors which GMs (in my opinion). Plus, this has been a down time on the Bulls board, so I wanted to bring something new to the table.

RULES

This is going to be done "Survivor" style. The first GM to receive *5 votes* against him will be eliminated. I will repost the updated GM list and all votes against other GMs will be wiped clean--everyone starts with zero votes each round (they do not accumulate over time)

Everyone has a vote every round, and voting does not begin until I post the updated lists (to speed up the filtering out votes from posts process). I promise to try and recheck this thread often, but I don't get on the forums very often when I'm home from work.

You can vote on your least favorite GM, team up with the popular vote to advance your favorite--take whatever strategy you wish. Dicussion of votes, or discussion of your strategy is encouraged.

I will vote every round, because it's my game and I want to play too 


Danny Ainge-Celtics
Rod Thorn- Nets
Isaiah Thomas- Knicks
Billy King- 76ers
Rob Babcock-Raptors
JOHN Paxson-Bulls
Bernie Bickerstaff- Bobcats
Larry Harris-Bucks
JIM Paxson-Cavs
Elgin Baylor-Clippers
Jerry West-Grizzlies
Billy Knight-Hawks
Pat Riley-Heat
Allan Bristow-Hornets
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
Mitch Kupchak-Lakers
John Weisbrod-Magic
Don Nelson-Mavs
Kiki Vandegwhe-Nuggets
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
Carrol Dawson-Rockets
Rick Sund-Sonics
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns
Kevin McHale-T Wolves
John Nash-Trail Blazers
Chris Mullin-Warriors
Ernie Grunfeld-Wizards


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Chris Mullin

(move him out early)


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Ditto on Mullin. I think with the exception of the Richardson signing, he has made several terrible misakes this year.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Darius Miles Davis</b>!
> Ditto on Mullin. I think with the exception of the Richardson signing, he has made several terrible misakes this year.


I just wanted to clarify that this is directed at their tenure as GM, not just moves made this year. I assume you know, but I wanted to clarify for others as well.

Your vote will be counted.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Jim Paxson


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

Billy King of the SIXERS. If you look at that team, they are a mess. They have nothing except AIs.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Isn't Dick Versace the titular GM of the Grizz?

If this is really a list of "dudes who are calling the shots," you should probably replace Stack with McHale. Otherwise, Stack might win the damn thing on the basis of not having done anything other than sign Eddie Griffin.

I'll go along with the alliance and cast my vote for Mullin, too.


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

Jim Paxson is a tough one...but the vote has to be Chris Mullin. 

I love Adonal as much as anyone else, but...my god...!


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> Isn't Dick Versace the titular GM of the Grizz?
> 
> If this is really a list of "dudes who are calling the shots," you should probably replace Stack with McHale. Otherwise, Stack might win the damn thing on the basis of not having done anything other than sign Eddie Griffin.
> ...


You are correct, and I didn't notice this until you posted (I copied the list from the other game I found). My original thread will be updated, and thank you.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Current Tally:

4 Mullin - Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale
1 Jim Paxson - Mikedc
1 King - PD


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

Wow, there are a lot of bad GMs to choose from. I have to go with the early consensus, though, and vote for Mullin.

Those contracts he gave out in one off-season made that franchise mediocre at-best for at least the next five years. He hasn't been bad over time, but that's good enough for me.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

GM Eliminated: Chris Mullin

5 Mullin - Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC
1 Jim Paxson - Mikedc
1 King - PD


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Danny Ainge-Celtics
Rod Thorn- Nets
Isaiah Thomas- Knicks
Billy King- 76ers
Rob Babcock-Raptors
JOHN Paxson-Bulls
Bernie Bickerstaff- Bobcats
Larry Harris-Bucks
JIM Paxson-Cavs
Elgin Baylor-Clippers
Jerry West-Grizzlies
Billy Knight-Hawks
Pat Riley-Heat
Allan Bristow-Hornets
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
Mitch Kupchak-Lakers
John Weisbrod-Magic
Don Nelson-Mavs
Kiki Vandegwhe-Nuggets
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
Carrol Dawson-Rockets
Rick Sund-Sonics
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns
Kevin McHale-T Wolves
John Nash-Trail Blazers
Ernie Grunfeld-Wizards

Already Eliminated

30. Chris Mullin-Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC)


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

While there are still a bunch of bad GMs out there to choose from, I think I'm going to have to go with another early exit candidate:

Jim Paxson


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Sorry to be such a PITA, but Randy Pfund is the actual Heat GM.

For round 2, I'm voting for Isiah Thomas. I wouldn't entrust the guy to run a lemonade stand, and yet somehow he's got full control of one of the league's marquee franchises.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

I think Jim Paxson deserves to last another round or three. He has had a great run since the McInnis trade, and yes, I fully realize Boozergate happened within that timeframe. He's put a nice team around LeBron and given LeBron the perfect first pro coach.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> Sorry to be such a PITA, but Randy Pfund is the actual Heat GM.
> 
> For round 2, I'm voting for Isiah Thomas. I wouldn't entrust the guy to run a lemonade stand, and yet somehow he's got full control of one of the league's marquee franchises.


No problem. I changed it back to those who run the show. Jerry West, McHale, Riley, etc. Makes more sense for this game anyways.

At least they aren't early exit candidates, so this game hasn't been ruined yet.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> I think Jim Paxson deserves to last another round or three. He has had a great run since the McInnis trade, and yes, I fully realize Boozergate happened within that timeframe. He's put a nice team around LeBron and given LeBron the perfect first pro coach.


Thomas was another one I was considering voting in round 2. He started out nicely, but fell to the NY jeers of win now! Doomed to mediocrity it seems. I'd much rather be in Jim's shoes than IT's, but the McInnis trade is really the only plus I see on his card.

1 Jim Paxson (Rhyder)
1 Isaiah Thomas (ScottMay)


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> For round 2, I'm voting for Isiah Thomas. I wouldn't entrust the guy to run a lemonade stand, and yet somehow he's got full control of one of the league's marquee franchises.


I totally agree with you on Thomas. That organization has had two of the worst decision makers as GMs in a row. I feel sorry for Knicks fans.

My vote's for Isiah.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> Isn't Dick Versace the titular GM of the Grizz?


though i have the utmost respect for may's use of the word "titular," my vote is jim paxson. losing boozer is enough to warrant being cained; let alone getting fired.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PC Load Letter</b>!
> 
> 
> My vote's for Isiah.


:yes: 

Get Zeke off my island.


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

rob babcock


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

UPDATE

3 Isaiah Thomas (ScottMay, PC, TomB) 
2 Jim Paxson (Rhyder, such sweet)
1 rob babcock (texan)


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## krob (Jul 6, 2002)

elgin baylor


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## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

Allan Bristow (hornets)


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>airety</b>!
> Allan Bristow (hornets)


The dude is running a MASH unit, not a basketball team!

Or did the Armstrong for Dickau trade really rub you the wrong way?


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## Lets_Play_2 (Jan 22, 2004)

Based upon the "Where do we go from here (except down)...." viewpoint, I had originally narrowed my candidates down to either Geoff Petrie (Sac Kings) or Mitch Kupchak (Lakers), but then that Uber-Superstar of Instant Gratification (Isiah Thomas of the NYK) was brought to our attention, and he's MY GUY!

Isiah Thomas, as a GM, YOU'RE FIRED! 

(He'd be an ideal Reality TV show candidate).


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

I'm a big Crawford supporter...and even I wouldn't have signed him for the Knicks. And this guy reportedly wants to add Antoine and/or VC to Marbury/Tim Thomas/ Crawford? Yikes! They'd set a record for most fga...and most missed.

I've been swayed. Plus, the guy irked me all summer.

Consider my vote cast for Zeke.


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

Jim Paxson. --Just look at his draft history besides Lebron. Luke Jackson? Dajuan Wagner? Desagana Diop? Trajan Langdon? He hasn't had a good pick in about 7 years (besides Lebron and Boozer), and he's had mainly lottery picks to use. 

He has absolutely no eye for talent. At least Isaiah is acquiring good pieces.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Isaiah Thomas has been eliminated.

5 Isaiah Thomas (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
2 Jim Paxson (Rhyder, such sweet)
1 rob babcock (texan)
1 Elgin Baylor (krob)
1 Allan Bristow (airety)

rwj's vote for Jim Paxson was after the 5th vote for IT and will not be counted for the round (you may resubmit your vote for round 3 if you'd like OR you can change your posture)


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: OT - GM Challenge (Survivor Style)*

ROUND 3

Alive
Billy King- 76ers
Bernie Bickerstaff- Bobcats
Larry Harris-Bucks
JOHN Paxson-Bulls
JIM Paxson-Cavs
Danny Ainge-Celtics
Elgin Baylor-Clippers
Jerry West-Grizzlies
Billy Knight-Hawks
Pat Riley-Heat
Allan Bristow-Hornets
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
Mitch Kupchak-Lakers
John Weisbrod-Magic
Don Nelson-Mavs
Rod Thorn- Nets
Kiki Vandegwhe-Nuggets
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
Rob Babcock-Raptors
Carrol Dawson-Rockets
Rick Sund-Sonics
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns
Kevin McHale-T Wolves
John Nash-Trail Blazers
Ernie Grunfeld-Wizards

Already Eliminated
29. Isaiah Thomas- Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin-Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC)


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Jim Paxson

(Fire Pax!)  

Elgin Baylor is probably next on my depth chart after Jim, just so you all know--unless someone else sways me to change my opinion.


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## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

Billy King


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## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> 
> 
> The dude is running a MASH unit, not a basketball team!
> ...


I thought he was the GM last year too, and looked it up to find out he wasn't. So he gets a bit of forgiveness. But there was always concern about Baron and Mashburn. Why wasn't ANYTHING done? Also, the Hornets have probably been the worst drafting team in the past 10 years, though he can't be faulted for that.

He gets a pass for a little longer now.


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## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

Cya Isiah.


My vote is for Elgin Baylor.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>airety</b>!
> 
> 
> I thought he was the GM last year too, and looked it up to find out he wasn't. So he gets a bit of forgiveness. But there was always concern about Baron and Mashburn. Why wasn't ANYTHING done? Also, the Hornets have probably been the worst drafting team in the past 10 years, though he can't be faulted for that.
> ...


It was just announced that he traded **EDIT** David Wesley for Jim Jackson and Bostjan Nachbar.

Pretty good deal for NO in my opinion, and adds another something to a GM with a short track record.


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

I was contemplating for the last ten minutes between Paxson, Baylor and Ainge...I just have to vote for Baylor. I mean, how can you not? He's been GM since 1986 and they've made the playoffs once, while being horrible most of the rest of the years.

My vote goes to Elgin Gay Baylor.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rhyder</b>!
> 
> 
> It was just announced that he traded Wesley Person for Jim Jackson and Bostjan Nachbar.
> ...


That is a head-scratcher . . . hadn't Houston been playing Jackson 35+ mpg when healthy?


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Definately a head scratcher. I guess Houston wants Wesley to play the point? I sure wouldn't want him there.


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## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> 
> 
> That is a head-scratcher . . . hadn't Houston been playing Jackson 35+ mpg when healthy?


Uh, wow. That's a great trade for NO. Dawson's in trouble!!!


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

UPDATE

2 Elgin Baylor (airety, PC)
1 Jim Paxson (Rhyder)
1 Billy King (ChiBulls2315)


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

Elgin Baylor- Clips


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

I'm going to vote for Ainge in the third round.

I guess he's got a semblance of a plan, but any organization that gets so excited about Tony Allen and Delonte West is suspect in my book. You'd have thought they'd landed Pippen and Grant they were so hyped on draft night.

Other lowlights: facilitating the Rasheed Wallace deal by trading Mike James. The comical mix-up of the Rivers hiring -- does he have full personnel control, or doesn't he? The Payton trade -- I guess it's worked out, but three years from now, wouldn't you really rather have Mihm?


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rhyder</b>!
> Definately a head scratcher. I guess Houston wants Wesley to play the point? I sure wouldn't want him there.


(FYI: your original post says "Wesley Person," not "David Wesley.")

Sincerely,

ScottMay

Rhyder's Personal Copy-Editor, Fact-Checker, and Nit-Picker


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> 
> 
> (FYI: your original post says "Wesley Person," not "David Wesley.")
> ...


Glad I have you aboard.  I normally am very careful in what I post, but too much going on at work today I guess.

Here's the link on the trade:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=wesleytraded&prov=st&type=lgns


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

Wow, Houston's gm is in trouble for this game for sure! That's an AWFUL trade!

But...I'm going to vote for Billy King. Philly is really screwed up with really bad contracts and a really bad vibe. Eric Snow (now gone) was a bad contract and McKie is bad and Dalambert rots on the bench and Kenny Thomas is untouchable and the whole Big Dog situation (part injury, part VERY PREDICTABLE personality / coach clash) and the Willie Green embarassment and...sigh...

Really, my vote is for Billy King. 

Ainge, Pax, Baylor are next...I think.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

UPDATE

3 Elgin Baylor (airety, PC, Hawk)
2 Billy King (ChiBulls2315, Beale)
1 Jim Paxson (Rhyder)
1 Danny Ainge (ScottMay)


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## krob (Jul 6, 2002)

baylor


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>krob</b>!
> baylor


ditto - 

Just this year, he should have gotten Okafor, Livingston is a long shot, trading for Kittles instead of Q looks very bad, Simmons breaking out is nice but will be gone as a FA.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Elgin Baylor - You're fired!

5 Elgin Baylor (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
2 Billy King (ChiBulls2315, Beale)
1 Jim Paxson (Rhyder)
1 Danny Ainge (ScottMay) [/QUOTE]


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: OT - GM Challenge (Survivor Style)*

ROUND 4

Alive
Billy King- 76ers
Bernie Bickerstaff- Bobcats
Larry Harris-Bucks
JOHN Paxson-Bulls
JIM Paxson-Cavs
Danny Ainge-Celtics
Jerry West-Grizzlies
Billy Knight-Hawks
Pat Riley-Heat
Allan Bristow-Hornets
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
Mitch Kupchak-Lakers
John Weisbrod-Magic
Don Nelson-Mavs
Rod Thorn- Nets
Kiki Vandegwhe-Nuggets
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
Rob Babcock-Raptors
Carrol Dawson-Rockets
Rick Sund-Sonics
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns
Kevin McHale-T Wolves
John Nash-Trail Blazers
Ernie Grunfeld-Wizards

Already Eliminated
27. ???
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC)


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

i can't really argue with baylor getting the axe...

...but i vote it falls on billy king next.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

I'm starting to sound like a broken record:

Jim Paxson

(I have to be right sometime)

Grunfeld, Nash, and Knight are probably next on my depth chart (not necessarily in that order)


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

DANNY AINGE! -bos


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## LuolDeng (Feb 22, 2004)

Jim Paxson


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## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

Later Billy King.


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

again

rob babcock


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

UPDATE

2 Billy King (Beale, airety)
2 Jim Paxson (Rhyder, KHinrich12)
1 Danny Ainge (Hawk23)
1 Rob Babcock (texan)


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## Yyzlin (Feb 2, 2003)

Billy King


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Danny Ainge!


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## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

King


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## krob (Jul 6, 2002)

ainge


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

UPDATE

4 Billy King (Beale, airety, Yyzlin, ChiBulls2315)
3 Danny Ainge (Hawk23, ScottMay, krob)
2 Jim Paxson (Rhyder, KHinrich12)
1 Rob Babcock (texan)


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Jim Paxson... yeash.

Sagan Diop everyone?
Dajuan Wagner?
Brendan Haywood traded for Michael Doleac?
Jamal for Chris Mihm?
Trajan Langdon for God's sakes?


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

jim paxson.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

UPDATE

4 Billy King (Beale, airety, Yyzlin, ChiBulls2315)
4 Jim Paxson (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder)
3 Danny Ainge (Hawk23, ScottMay, krob)
1 Rob Babcock (texan)


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rhyder</b>!
> UPDATE
> 
> 4 Billy King (Beale, airety, Yyzlin, ChiBulls2315)
> ...


Jim Paxson. 

And...........yer done!

Any points he gets for drafting Boozer are lost and then some the way he lost Boozer. Drafting LeBron was obvious. The rest is just trash. Let's not forget that on top of the damning moves MikeDC brought up, Paxson signed Kevin Ollie and Ira Newble to 5 year, 15 million dollar contracts last year.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

GM Eliminated: Jim Paxson "He Gone!"

5 Jim Paxson (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
4 Billy King (Beale, airety, Yyzlin, ChiBulls2315)
3 Danny Ainge (Hawk23, ScottMay, krob)
1 Rob Babcock (texan)


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: OT - GM Challenge (Survivor Style)*

ROUND 5

Alive
Billy King- 76ers
Bernie Bickerstaff- Bobcats
Larry Harris-Bucks
JOHN Paxson-Bulls
Danny Ainge-Celtics
Jerry West-Grizzlies
Billy Knight-Hawks
Pat Riley-Heat
Allan Bristow-Hornets
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
Mitch Kupchak-Lakers
John Weisbrod-Magic
Don Nelson-Mavs
Rod Thorn- Nets
Kiki Vandegwhe-Nuggets
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
Rob Babcock-Raptors
Carrol Dawson-Rockets
Rick Sund-Sonics
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns
Kevin McHale-T Wolves
John Nash-Trail Blazers
Ernie Grunfeld-Wizards

Already Eliminated
26. ???
27. JIM Paxson-Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC) [/QUOTE]


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

any guesses?

rob babcock


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

This was a tough choice, but I had to go with

Ernie Grunfeld

In my mind, King and Ainge have done enough for their teams during their tenure that they deserve some credit. Yes, they both did not make good offseason moves this season, but both teams have made some solid moves in recent years past and have consistently at least made the playoffs. Grunfeld has done nothing to really impress me. They better sign Hughes this offseason, else they are going to go back to the lower eschelon teams again next year.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>texan</b>!
> any guesses?
> 
> rob babcock


Assuming Grunfeld gets eliminated, I think I'm going to have to vote with you on Babcock next round.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

I'd like to point out that JOHN Paxson has 31 votes already.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> I'd like to point out that JOHN Paxson has 31 votes already.


LOL

None so far in this game. I guess that means others are more deserving? It should be interesting to see where Johnny ends up here however.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Well, you can give John my vote now, and in every round from now on.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> Well, you can give John my vote now, and in every round from now on.


As per the rules, you are required to post each round. The purpose of this is to generate discussion and try and get other voters to sway their posture as to why one GM is worse than another.

Your vote will definately be counted this round (and future rounds as long as you post).


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

UPDATE

1 Rob Babcock (texan)
1 Ernie Grunfeld (Rhyder)
1 John Paxson (DaBullz)


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

OK.

Here's why I vote for Pax:

1) He's replaced lotto pick talent with more lotto pick talent. He could have, and should have ADDED to our lotto pick talent.

2) In 1 season plus 25 games into the next, his team barely has more wins (23+9 = 32) than the team he took over (30 in 82 games).

3) He wasted $10M+ on Pippen.

4) He boned Corey Blount. Players are people, too. How you treat people is important to me, and likely potential FAs we'd like to sign.

5) He hired Skiles. Reason enough for me. How you treat people is important to me, as I said. 

6) He's not made a trade where we got the best player in the deal.

7) I've still not seen or heard him say "anything it takes to win."

8) He insisted we play Marcus Fizer last season far before he was ready (done with his rehab). It's how you treat people...


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> OK.
> 
> Here's why I vote for Pax:
> ...


All valid points, however he has done some positives too--which we all know and argue on a daily basis.

I just wanted to point out about your 31 votes against John comment, is that 4 of the members of your Fire Paxson club have been voting in this game and haven't voted for Johnny boy yet as well. :yes:


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

I have to go with Ainge this round. He doesn't have near the track record of some of the other guys, but, along the same lines as Isiah, I don't trust him to build a winning team. He's another guy who's ego will get in the way of making good decisions.


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

Ainge

- he traded for Lefrentz enough said


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Getting harder.

Alan Bristow hasn't been brought up, maybe because he's a low profile guy and he has to deal with difficult ownership. Still, it was pretty apparent that the Hornets were, aside from Baron Davis, an aging team that needed to start changing. They've started now but you gotta figure they're gonna unload Jim Jackson, George Lynch (who looks really freaking done), and PJ Brown at some kind of discount.

This isn't a total indictment, I like bringing in Chris Anderson, and he got good value for David Wesley. He also convinced Magloire to re-sign and JR Smith wasn't a bad pickup.

Billy King maybe. Big Dog for Keith Van Horn sucked, and the Sixers are about as capped out as you can get.

Ainge has some kind of bad mojo thing, I agree.

My vote, I think, actually goes to *Kevin McHale*, who deserves responsibility for costing the TWolves like 4 first rounders for the whole Joe Smith under the table deal fiasco. Between that and the big deals they've given to Troy Hudson and Wally World, I don't know how competitive they can be down the road.

I don't know if Rob Babcock ought to be fired. The Vince Carter trade was pretty lame, although it can't be judged fairly until they use the two first rounders they got. Still, he's got a significant cap penalty from a trade that should have been able to clear the decks. Araujo isn't inspiring a lot of confidence in the draft department.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

UPDATE

2 Danny Ainge (PC Load Letter, Hustle)
1 Rob Babcock (texan)
1 Ernie Grunfeld (Rhyder)
1 John Paxson (DaBullz)
1 Kevin McHale (Mikedc)


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Babcock - in part for taking a bad job


----------



## Lets_Play_2 (Jan 22, 2004)

Got to go with Ernie Grunfeld (Wiz). Say what you will, looking back, MJ did a decent job with what he originally got handed in Washington.

What has Grunfeld done to make things better for the Wiz?

Ernie Grunfeld, time to pack your bags....


----------



## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

Okay, Billy King has earned a little breathing room what with Iggy's monster game last night and all. I'm going to cast my vote this round for Danny Ainge. Why? This guy traded 'Toine...and now supposedly wants him back? He chased out a very good coach and destroyed a pretty good team that, in my opinion, has no more potential right now (save Al Jefferson) than it did two or three years ago. Ugh. 

Danny Ainge...go home!


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

I will not rest until Danny Ainge is kicked to the curb.

Come on, people! This guy handed a title to the Pissed-ons! He walked away from last year's draft saying he'd landed the two best guards available (Delonte West and Tony Allen), and he meant it!


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> I will not rest until Danny Ainge is kicked to the curb.
> 
> Come on, people! This guy handed a title to the Pissed-ons! He walked away from last year's draft saying he'd landed the two best guards available (Delonte West and Tony Allen), and he meant it!


LOL I hope you continue to vote after he is knocked off too!


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 5 UPDATE

4 Danny Ainge (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay)
2 Rob Babcock (texan, johnston797)
2 Ernie Grunfeld (Rhyder, Lets_Play_2)
1 John Paxson (DaBullz)
1 Kevin McHale (Mikedc)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

One small question I had to all of you, is whether you thought this was fun idea?

I think it's a blast, and a good way to generate discussion. I'd be more than happy to run more threads like these in the future as long as everyone is having a good time doing it.

Maybe the reason I am posting this is because I expected more participants, I don't know.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rhyder</b>!
> One small question I had to all of you, is whether you thought this was fun idea?
> 
> I think it's a blast, and a good way to generate discussion. I'd be more than happy to run more threads like these in the future as long as everyone is having a good time doing it.
> ...


Love it!


----------



## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

I really only post at work nowadays, Rhyder, and I only post in bunches but I'd contribute very regularly to these types of posts in the future. They're very fun!



:clap:


----------



## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

Rhyder, I personally really enjoy threads like these for the reasons you stated. I also used to love Kneepad's weekly trivia threads. 

Screw the people not contributing; their loss!


----------



## krob (Jul 6, 2002)

ainge


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 5 ELIMINATION: Danny Ainge

5 Danny Ainge (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
2 Rob Babcock (texan, johnston797)
2 Ernie Grunfeld (Rhyder, Lets_Play_2)
1 John Paxson (DaBullz)
1 Kevin McHale (Mikedc)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT - GM Challenge (Survivor Style)*

ROUND 6

Alive
Billy King- 76ers
Bernie Bickerstaff- Bobcats
Larry Harris-Bucks
JOHN Paxson-Bulls
Jerry West-Grizzlies
Billy Knight-Hawks
Pat Riley-Heat
Allan Bristow-Hornets
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
Mitch Kupchak-Lakers
John Weisbrod-Magic
Don Nelson-Mavs
Rod Thorn- Nets
Kiki Vandegwhe-Nuggets
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
Rob Babcock-Raptors
Carrol Dawson-Rockets
Rick Sund-Sonics
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns
Kevin McHale-T Wolves
John Nash-Trail Blazers
Ernie Grunfeld-Wizards

Already Eliminated
25. ???
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC)


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rhyder</b>!
> ROUND 5 ELIMINATION: Danny Ainge
> 
> 5 Danny Ainge (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
> ...


Whoot, there it is.

After today's Insider piece that paints a dismal freaking picture in Portland, I am casting my next vote for John Nash. He is a good judge of talent, but a horrible ditherer of a manager. Decisiveness is key -- otherwise you end up giving a player you don't like and don't believe in an untradeable (for now) max contract.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Next on my depth chart was Grunfeld and Nash (and it was pretty much a tossup for me here)

I'll go along with you on Portland's recipe for failure and jump on the Nash bandwagon as well, especially seeing that WAS is having some success (so far) at least this season.

My vote: John Nash


----------



## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

rob babcock

how many times do i have to vote for him


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>texan</b>!
> rob babcock
> 
> how many times do i have to vote for him


I'm with ya once Nash and Knight are gone.


----------



## Lets_Play_2 (Jan 22, 2004)

This is starting to get difficult. Let's see....

We've still got an outstanding group of candidates:
1) Billy King (Philly) who for his cap "management" (be nice, Christmas spirit & all) has basically driven that franchise into the ground for the forseeable future.
2) Geoff Petrie (Sac Kings) who has done just good enough to be better than average, but has nowhere to go except down.
3) Mitch Kupchak (LA Lakers) who has done a magnificant job of creating a slightly above average gaggle (not a "team", just a "gaggle") out of a bunch of mismatched, egotistical players.
4) Rod Thorn (NJ Nets). Just a simple question, Rod - "How many basketballs do they play with at any one time during an NBA game?". If the answer = ONE, then why in the hell do you want RJeff, VC, & JKidd all playing on the same team at the same time.
5) Rob Babcock (Raptors). Enough said....

But in spite of my list, I've got to stick with Ernie Grunfeld of the Wizards as the next to go. Where did they find this guy, AND WHY??? I mean, it's getting to a point where if I'm Kwame Brown, I want to be traded/FA to the Bulls so I can get a fresh start.....

Bye Bye Ernie.....


----------



## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

Billy King was so close! I'm gonna vote for him again, and I encourage the rest of you to also. We can get on to Nash, Grunfeld, and Babcock right after.

My vote: Billy King.

That franchise has NO chance for many, many years due to nothing more than poor mismanagement. Portland and Washington are built at least a little bit better. Toronto has promise, and got rid of one cancer.


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

There you stood, that'll teach ya
To look so good and feel so right
Let me tell you 'bout the girl I met last night
It's understood, I had to reach ya
I let the wheel of fortune spin
I touched your hand before the crowd
Started crushin' in
Now I'm higher than a kite
I know I'm gettin' hooked on your love
Talkin' to myself, runnin' in the heat
Beggin' for your touch in the middle
Of the street and I --
*I can't stop thinking 'bout you girl
I must be living in a fantasy world
I've searched the whole world over
To find a heart so true
Such complete intoxication
I'm high on you*
Smart and coy, a little crazy
The kinda face that starts a fight
Let me tell you 'bout the girl I had last night
Piercin' eyes, like a raven
You seemed to share my secret sin
We were high before the night
Started kickin' in
Now I'm screamin' in the night
I know I'm gettin' hooked on your love
Talkin' to myself, runnin' in the heat
Beggin' for your touch in the middle
Of the street and I --
( * Repeat) 

Sorry . . . just thought I'd throw in some Survivor lyrics while we wait.


----------



## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

I said Billy King had some breathing room for me...but not much. 

BILLY KING...the bell tolls for THEE!!!


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> 
> 
> Whoot, there it is.
> ...


I gotta vote for Nash, too.

Unlimited funds, limited imagination.

Besides Scott's points, signing Ratliff to that big extention this past off-season doesn't look so hot either.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 6 UPDATE

3 John Nash (ScottMay, Rhyder, johnston797)
2 Billy King (airety, BealeFarange)
1 Rob Babcock (texan)
1 Ernie Grunfeld (Lets_Play_2)


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I figure Nash will get around to pulling a couple of trades and get things pointed in the right direction.

OK, Billy King... he's gotta go sooner or later and no one wants to jump on the McHale bandwagon for some reason.


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

--still laughing about The Virgin Connie Swail--


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> I figure Nash will get around to pulling a couple of trades and get things pointed in the right direction.
> 
> OK, Billy King... he's gotta go sooner or later and no one wants to jump on the McHale bandwagon for some reason.


That's why I jumped on Nash, as it didn't seem there was much enthusiasm for the Grunfeld bandwagon.

I think Grunfeld, Knight, and Nash are all pretty bad.

King, McHale, and Babcock are in the next tier, at least in my book.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Pax gets my vote again.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 6 UPDATE

3 John Nash (ScottMay, Rhyder, johnston797)
3 Billy King (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc)
1 Rob Babcock (texan)
1 Ernie Grunfeld (Lets_Play_2)
1 John Paxson (DaBullz)


----------



## Yyzlin (Feb 2, 2003)

Billy King


----------



## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

One more for Billy King please! I promise I'll help get Nash out next round


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>airety</b>!
> One more for Billy King please! I promise I'll help get Nash out next round


If I could change my vote, I still wouldn't vote King, because he is not in the bottom tier of GMs right now anways in my opinion.

If vote changing were allowed, and Grunfeld or Knight was the deciding vote, I'd definately change my tune (if I could).


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

more input is required


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> more input is required


Yes, please :yes: 

I thought Babyblue would at least play.


----------



## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

Billy King's gone, right?

There are worse judges of talent, but I have to vote for Nash. On top of taking a highschooler two years in a row that play the same position, he seems to have no capability to judge character, or at least undervalues character to a ridiculous degree. He's like the anti-Paxson.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 6 UPDATE

4 John Nash (ScottMay, Rhyder, johnston797, PC Load Letter)
4 Billy King (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin)
1 Rob Babcock (texan)
1 Ernie Grunfeld (Lets_Play_2)
1 John Paxson (DaBullz)

No PC, King is not gone yet--airety was just begging for another vote


----------



## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rhyder</b>!
> No PC, King is not gone yet--airety was just begging for another vote


Ah. Airety threw me a curveball. It's ok, King's next for me anyway.


----------



## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

BILLY KING YOU'RE FIRED...

Subtract AI from the Sixers and you have probably the worst team in the NBA. Iggy was a good pickup, only because several other teams(cough cough Hawks) dropped the ball.


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Let's add PC's vote to the Nash vote from last round and dump him too.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 6 ELIMINATION: Billy King

5 Billy King (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
4 John Nash (ScottMay, Rhyder, johnston797, PC Load Letter)
1 Rob Babcock (texan)
1 Ernie Grunfeld (Lets_Play_2)
1 John Paxson (DaBullz)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT - GM Challenge (Survivor Style)*

ROUND 7

Alive
Bernie Bickerstaff- Bobcats
Larry Harris-Bucks
JOHN Paxson-Bulls
Jerry West-Grizzlies
Billy Knight-Hawks
Pat Riley-Heat
Allan Bristow-Hornets
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
Mitch Kupchak-Lakers
John Weisbrod-Magic
Don Nelson-Mavs
Rod Thorn- Nets
Kiki Vandegwhe-Nuggets
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
Rob Babcock-Raptors
Carrol Dawson-Rockets
Rick Sund-Sonics
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns
Kevin McHale-T Wolves
John Nash-Trail Blazers
Ernie Grunfeld-Wizards

Already Eliminated
24. ???
25. Billy King- 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

I'm jumping on the Nash bandwagon again:

John Nash - POR


----------



## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

Hmm...I'm going to have to think about this next one for a bit. For some reason, Billy King just really rubbed me the wrong way but the next tier is harder. 

I guess I think Washington is way too decent for Grunsfeld to get the axe. I like Larry Hughes/Arenas/Jamison as a core (and I liked it in GS, too) and I think Kwame and Hayes have at least moderate potential. And there really isn't an awful salary situation there, unless I'm forgetting something. 

Harris in Milwaukee is bad, in my opinion. Lucked into Michael Redd, really, and they're going to lose him anyway. Nothing else there to really speak of...

Nash and Knight are bad, too. Hmm...I guess I'm going to lean towards Nash. I like the fact that he kept Darius Miles but the situation with Shareef is really his fault...he could have got someone else for Rasheed no doubt...and he knew Shareef wouldn't gel with Zach. He's a waffler, like someone said before, and that's just not a good thing for a GM to be. Add some bad character decisions and some horrible cap management and Nash is the next GM out. 

I'm totally not on the McHale bandwagon yet...one VERY costly mistake does not tarnish him completely. 

Nash...goodbye.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Fire Paxson.


----------



## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> Fire Paxson.


See!


----------



## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

Nash must go. Mark me down.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

I'm bound by the rules to post each round.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BealeFarange</b>!
> Hmm...I'm going to have to think about this next one for a bit. For some reason, Billy King just really rubbed me the wrong way but the next tier is harder.
> 
> I guess I think Washington is way too decent for Grunsfeld to get the axe. I like Larry Hughes/Arenas/Jamison as a core (and I liked it in GS, too) and I think Kwame and Hayes have at least moderate potential. And there really isn't an awful salary situation there, unless I'm forgetting something.
> ...


Good analysis!

Nash, Knight, and Grunfeld are still in my lower tier.

Babcock, Dawson, and Harris are probably starting my next tier.


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

John Nash! 

He spent all summer talking about how vital it was for the Blazers to rehabilitate their image in the public, then he went and gave a max contract to a guy who just a few weeks before the deal: 

1. Witnessed his brother shoot three people at a nightclub

2. Helped his brother flee the scene

3. Lied about it repeatedly to police officers, and only "clarified" his statements once it became apparent he'd be brought up on felony charges.

I don't think Randolph is a bad guy, per se, but a GM who says one thing and does the exact opposite is a dead man walking.

Next!


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 7 UPDATE

4 John Nash (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay)
1 John Paxson (DaBullz)


----------



## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

I think it's a really bad sign for poor Chris Mullin that we can debate all these other gms so thoroughly and we really didn't hesitate for a moment to call him out as the worst. In fact, I wish I could vote for him again. He's just...so...bad...


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BealeFarange</b>!
> I think it's a really bad sign for poor Chris Mullin that we can debate all these other gms so thoroughly and we really didn't hesitate for a moment to call him out as the worst. In fact, I wish I could vote for him again. He's just...so...bad...


Isaiah went pretty fast too without a lot of discussion.


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rhyder</b>!
> ROUND 7 UPDATE
> 
> 4 John Nash (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay)
> 1 John Paxson (DaBullz)


Nash.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 7 ELIMINATION - John Nash

5 John Nash (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
1 John Paxson (DaBullz)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT - GM Challenge (Survivor Style)*

ROUND 8

Alive
Bernie Bickerstaff- Bobcats
Larry Harris-Bucks
JOHN Paxson-Bulls
Jerry West-Grizzlies
Billy Knight-Hawks
Pat Riley-Heat
Allan Bristow-Hornets
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
Mitch Kupchak-Lakers
John Weisbrod-Magic
Don Nelson-Mavs
Rod Thorn- Nets
Kiki Vandegwhe-Nuggets
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
Rob Babcock-Raptors
Carrol Dawson-Rockets
Rick Sund-Sonics
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns
Kevin McHale-T Wolves
Ernie Grunfeld-Wizards

Already Eliminated
23. ???
24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT - GM Challenge (Survivor Style)*

This is getting much more difficult

Larry Harris-Bucks
Billy Knight-Hawks
Geoff Petrie-Kings
John Weisbrod-Magic
Rod Thorn- Nets
Rob Babcock-Raptors
Carrol Dawson-Rockets
Ernie Grunfeld-Wizards

These were the candidates I narrowed it down to. Out of all of these organizations, TOR seems to be in the worse shape.

They traded for Rose (bad contract), traded for Lamond Murray (bad contract), and signed Alvin Williams (bad contract).

They moved Vince for cap relief, but still have Zo on the books. They look to be a borderline playoff team until 07-08 when Rose & Mourning come off the books.

Their drafting hasn't been great either.

The only real positive I see was the Rafer Alston signing (which I thought was too much money at the time too).

Vote: Rob Babcock


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Paxson.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Already Eliminated

24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797) 
<B>13-13, currently 8th seed</B>

25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock) 
<B>13-14, currently 8th seed</B>

26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob) 
<B>12-15, currently 9th seed</B>

27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD) 
<B>17-11, currently 2nd seed</B>

28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston) 
<B>12-14, currently 11th seed</B>

29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale) 
<B>15-13, currently 3rd seed</B>

30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC) 
<B>10-18, currently 14th seed</B>


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

BABCOCK- TOR


----------



## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

I have to agree on Babcock. I'm not sure he's done enough to necessarily warrant such an early exit, but just listening to the guy, he doesn't sound too bright. I don't think he has any semblance of a plan and, if he does, he doesn't seem to be capable of carrying it out. Babcock, it is!


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 8 Update

3 Rob Babcock (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter)
1 John Paxson (DaBullz)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> Already Eliminated
> 
> 24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
> ...


I think a lot of this analysis is based on the state of the franchise and good/bad trades GMs have made. I didn't like the Ainge or King early exits myself, but I can't control the game, I just am running it.

IT for example actually came into NY and started doing a good job, then he took about 5 steps backwards. They have the highest payroll and only a very small shot at making the Eastern Conference Finals.

Bickerstaff, for example, has done a great job with an expansion franchise in my mind, and while the record may not show it, I think he has been nothing but a positive for the club. I have the same sentiment about John Paxson. I don't think either are top GMs, but neither warrant an early exit as some of the GMs that already have been eliminated are.

You also are using one season as the base for your post, rather than the record of the team during the tenure of the GM.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I'll go with Babcock, I don't mind the Carter trade for two firsts, but getting stiffed with Zo's long-term deal (and that of Aaron and Eric Williams are only OK) and drafting Araujo look pretty bad. I liked Araujo in the draft though, so I can't fault him too much on that one.

I also don't really understand what they're trying to achieve in terms of fit... Bosh, MoPete, Lammond Murray, Rose, Marshall, Rafer Alston... it's like they took a bad running team and a bad slow-down team, mashed the pieces together, and then exiled anyone who could play center off the team.

John Paxson on deck.

(And by the way, I'm curious as to see guy how guys will legitimate dumping a guy like Babcock, whose been on the job for like 8 months, but say Paxson needs more time).


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

I'll vote for Babcock so we can get around to firing Paxson and Carroll Dawson.

That team is f***'d. Probably even worse than we are.


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rhyder</b>!
> 
> 
> I think a lot of this analysis is based on the state of the franchise and good/bad trades GMs have made. I didn't like the Ainge or King early exits myself, but I can't control the game, I just am running it.
> ...


This season is the culmination of the GMs' work to date, no?

I was curious about how all these GMs who were getting the boot were actually doing. Particularly because JIM Paxson was ousted, and I think he's actually doing a terrific job (and the record shows it).


----------



## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

I'd like to add that the Raptors employ both Babcock brothers (Rob and his brother Pete, who was a rather unsuccessful GM in Atlanta for a while) in their front office. Wouldn't the Sklar brothers have a better chance at successfully running an NBA organization?


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> (And by the way, I'm curious as to see guy how guys will legitimate dumping a guy like Babcock, whose been on the job for like 8 months, but say Paxson needs more time).


I hated the Carter trade, liked the Rafer Alston signing after the fact (but not at the time).

I think Babcock's scenerio would be similar to John's right after the Rose/Marshall for AD/JYD trade, and had I done this poll at this time last year, I'm sure John would have gotten an early boot.

Now the trade is making much more sense after we see how it is playing out.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> 
> 
> This season is the culmination of the GMs' work to date, no?
> ...


Culmination of their work to date yes, but you have to factor in rebuilding/injuries as well. If a GM decides to break up a team and rebuild, it is their fault for a poor record, yes, but you could still like the moves made along the way for a chance at a greater product.

That's perfectly fine. I thought Jim had been doing bad before LBJ, and other than the Gooden signing, has done a poor job now too. I attribute LBJ and their record as a result as "luck"


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 8 ELIMINATION: Rob Babcock

5 Rob Babcock (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter, Mikedc, ScottMay)
1 John Paxson (DaBullz)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT - GM Challenge (Survivor Style)*

ROUND 9

Alive
Bernie Bickerstaff- Bobcats
Larry Harris-Bucks
JOHN Paxson-Bulls
Jerry West-Grizzlies
Billy Knight-Hawks
Pat Riley-Heat
Allan Bristow-Hornets
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
Mitch Kupchak-Lakers
John Weisbrod-Magic
Don Nelson-Mavs
Rod Thorn- Nets
Kiki Vandegwhe-Nuggets
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
Carrol Dawson-Rockets
Rick Sund-Sonics
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns
Kevin McHale-T Wolves
Ernie Grunfeld-Wizards

Already Eliminated
22. ???
23. Rob Babcock - Raptors (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter, Mikedc, ScottMay)
24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC)


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Paxson. Yawn.


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

I'm gonna float another idea and say Mitch Kupchak.

The Lakers' 3-peat started on West's watch (I think - in any event, he assembled the first team), but ended on Mitch's watch. He failed for a couple years to do what Krause was so good at and add needed role players to that team's bench, and they got slow and stale. He signed Payton and Malone, which I admit almost any GM would have done given the chance, but it was clear to anyone paying attention the year before that the team needed more athleticism and perimeter defense to get back on top, and he found none. He also botched Devean George's rookie contract and ended up having to give him a full-MLE deal to keep him. Then he allowed himself to be held hostage by a player (or at least it seemed that way) and traded away Shaq, immediately after a finals appearance, for decent but non-title-material players. now that team is a low-rung playoff team at best and a non-contender for the forseeable future.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>DaBullz</b>!
> Paxson. Yawn.


 

Billy Knight- ATL


----------



## krob (Jul 6, 2002)

Billy Knight


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

I can't decide between Harris, Knight, or Dawson but Kupchak was definately close on my radar as well.

I liked the trade for McGrady, but just about every other move has been questionable at best.

I think I'm going to have to jump on the Harris bandwagon. I think MIL has been terribly mismanaged for as long as I can remember.

Ford was a nice pickup, but not enough to be a savior.

My vote: Larry Harris


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 9 UPDATE

2 Billy Knight (HAWK23, krob)
1 John Paxson (DaBullz)
1 Mitch Kupchak (ViciousFlogging)
1 Larry Harris (Rhyder)


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

John Paxson, you're fired.

(I just got chills.)


----------



## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

Billy Knight.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Billy Knight just freaking got hired... he hasn't done much of anything yet. Childress doesn't look great, but he's also put together some very nice games, so I wouldn't doubt him ending up a good player. Josh Smith looks very good. They didn't blow their cap wad foolishly just because they had money to spend. So far they look to be pointed in the right direction, they've just got a very long climb.

Paxson gets my vote.

Kupchack is on deck. VF is right in that he didn't find role players, although I think a lot of the other stuff was beyond Kupchack's control (IE, it was mandated that Shaq had to be traded, and there wasn't much he could do about it).


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

double post... does that mean I get two votes?


----------



## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

I'll clearly be in the minority on this, but shouldn't McHale be next based on the Joe Smith fiasco alone? I mean, can you imagine where that team might be with all those first rounders they ended up losing? All for Joe Smith!

Kevin McHale, you have my vote for sucking.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PC Load Letter</b>!
> I'll clearly be in the minority on this, but shouldn't McHale be next based on the Joe Smith fiasco alone? I mean, can you imagine where that team might be with all those first rounders they ended up losing? All for Joe Smith!
> 
> Kevin McHale, you have my vote for sucking.


Yeah, he deserves the boot, I was voting for him earlier... I'll come back to him next round, but Pax needs to go.


----------



## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah, he deserves the boot, I was voting for him earlier... I'll come back to him next round, but Pax needs to go.


Pax has saved himself for a little while longer in my mind based on this year's draft alone. Lucky or not, we got the goods.


----------



## Lets_Play_2 (Jan 22, 2004)

Mitch Kupchak (LAL)

Stick the fork in, he's done.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 9 UPDATE

3 Billy Knight (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange)
3 John Paxson (DaBullz, ScottMay, Mikedc)
2 Mitch Kupchak (ViciousFlogging, Lets_Play_2)
1 Larry Harris (Rhyder)
1 Kevin McHale (PC Load Letter)


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PC Load Letter</b>!
> 
> 
> Pax has saved himself for a little while longer in my mind based on this year's draft alone. Lucky or not, we got the goods.


I'm right in saying McHale inherited Garnett, right?


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm right in saying McHale inherited Garnett, right?


I don't think so. I think 1995 was McHale's first draft.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

The real question is whether this thread will surpass the Crawford one 

And yes, '95 sounds about right for McHale (nothing to back that statement up, however).


----------



## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

I'm voting for Carroll Dawson, now and each subsequent time I notice the thread. The guy is far worse than quite a few of the guys who have been fired already. All he's really done well in the past few years is get lucky and win the Yao Ming lottery.


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm right in saying McHale inherited Garnett, right?


McHale definetely drafted Garnett.

Makes up for a lot of mistakes, huh.


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

I vote for Alan Bristow. The organization is a complete joke. I have no idea what he is trying to do with the recent trades except cut cost. Jim Jackson didn't even report.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Despite success with KG, I have to agree with PC and vote McHale. Getting busted for dealing under the table should cost a man his job.


----------



## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

Dawson


----------



## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

John Paxon barely survives my vote for drafting Ben Gordon.

Rod Thorn.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> 
> 
> McHale definetely drafted Garnett.
> ...


It certainly does.


----------



## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

just editing out my old post ... sorry for my mistake


----------



## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

wait, im canceling my mchale vote and will look for a different candidate. i also propose an alliance to keep pax in for the final 10. ill be back soon w my new canidate


----------



## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

ill vote out knight

Larry Harris of the Bucks should be next on the chopping block imo


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 9 UPDATE

4 Billy Knight (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange, jollyoscars)
3 John Paxson (DaBullz, ScottMay, Mikedc)
2 Mitch Kupchak (ViciousFlogging, Lets_Play_2)
2 Kevin McHale (PC Load Letter, TomBoerwinkle#1)
2 Carroll Dawson (RP McMurphy, ChiBulls2315)
1 Larry Harris (Rhyder)
1 Rod Thorn (Pacers Fan)
1 Allan Bristow (johnston797)


----------



## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Billy Knight is now dismissed!!!!

Pax survives another round. 

Cmon it's Billy Knight.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 9 ELIMINATION: Billy Knight

5 Billy Knight (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange, jollyoscars, T.Shock)
3 John Paxson (DaBullz, ScottMay, Mikedc)
2 Mitch Kupchak (ViciousFlogging, Lets_Play_2)
2 Kevin McHale (PC Load Letter, TomBoerwinkle#1)
2 Carroll Dawson (RP McMurphy, ChiBulls2315)
1 Larry Harris (Rhyder)
1 Rod Thorn (Pacers Fan)
1 Allan Bristow (johnston797)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT - GM Challenge (Survivor Style)*

ROUND 10

Alive
Bernie Bickerstaff- Bobcats
Larry Harris-Bucks
JOHN Paxson-Bulls
Jerry West-Grizzlies
Pat Riley-Heat
Allan Bristow-Hornets
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
Mitch Kupchak-Lakers
John Weisbrod-Magic
Don Nelson-Mavs
Rod Thorn- Nets
Kiki Vandegwhe-Nuggets
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
Carrol Dawson-Rockets
Rick Sund-Sonics
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns
Kevin McHale-T Wolves
Ernie Grunfeld-Wizards

Already Eliminated
21. ???
22. Billy Knight - Hawks (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange, jollyoscars, T.Shock)
23. Rob Babcock - Raptors (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter, Mikedc, ScottMay)
24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Since my Harris vote didn't get any support last round, my other two candidates for exiting next are Dawson, Grunfeld, Kiki & Kupchak.

While Dawson doesn't have a stellar track record, I actually really liked the trade for T-Mac. Pike for Mutombo wasn't bad for them either.

Kiki has done an ok job in DEN. Nothing to ride home about, but definately has done an average job in my eyes.

I'm going to have to go with the LAL GM this round.

My vote: Mitch Kupchak


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Kupchak


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

John Paxson -- in 500+ days on the job, he has yet to acquire a legitimate 2 guard for his team, and in those 500+ days, on three separate occasions, the team's two best players have played the same position. He is facing an offseason where he'll likely lose his two big men to free agency (or horribly one-sided sign-and-trades) and won't have a draft pick or cap space to replace them. 

Record-wise he has made the team worse, not better, and surprisingly, given his charisma and popular appeal, there doesn't appear to be a worse "people person" GM in the league outside of Ainge or Kiki. From the horrendous Corie Blount situation to repeatedly using the media to call out his young players, Paxson has left a lot to be desired in terms of diplomacy.

If Kupchak goes this round, you guys do realize that Paxson HAS to go next, right? I think Carroll Dawson's a terrible GM, but he does have Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady on his roster. And say what you want about Ernie Grunfeld, but that team is playoff bound and has a more talented nucleus than ours (even if they don't "play the right way."


----------



## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

Wow, after reading RP McMurphy's post, I decided to look at Dawson's draft history in Houston. Yikes! Outside of Yao, there's nothing. Seriously, look at this:

(I think he's been GM for eight years)

* 
2004 
Rnd Name College/HS/Country Note 
2 Luis Flores Manhattan 

2003 
Rnd Name College/HS/Country Note 
2 Malick Badiane Senegal 

2002 
Rnd Name College/HS/Country Note 
1 Yao Ming Shanghai Sharks 
1 Bostjan Nachbar Italy 
2 Tito Maddox Fresno State 

2001 
Rnd Name College/HS/Country Note 
1 Richard Jefferson Arizona (all these traded for Eddie Griffin)
1 Jason Collins Stanford 
1 Brandon Armstrong Pepperdine 

2000 
Rnd Name College/HS/Country Note 
1 Jason Collier Georgia Tech 
2 Dan Langhi Vanderbilt 

1999 
Rnd Name College/HS/Country Note 
1 Kenny Thomas New Mexico 
2 Tyrone Washington Mississippi State 
2 Venson Hamilton Nebraska 

1998 
Rnd Name College/HS/Country Note 
1 Michael Dickerson Arizona 
1 Bryce Drew Valparaiso 
1 Mirsad Turkcan Turkey 
2 Cuttino Mobley Rhode Island 

1997 
Rnd Name College/HS/Country Note 
1 Rodrick Rhodes Southern Cal 
2 Serge Zwikker North Carolina 
*
The only "good" pick is Mobley and look at some of those 1st round duds. This guy's been horrible. Get him out of here!


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

Kupchak- LAL


----------



## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

I'll say Dawson. You have a legit star in Yao Ming at center and you surround him with a shoot-first "me" guy in T-Mac. Just a horrible idea of how to build a team. Kupchak did some good things in the past like getting Fisher, Horry, and the other role players but that coulda been West too though. My memory is a little sketchy.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 10 UPDATE

3 Mitch Kupchak (Rhyder, Mikedc, HAWK23)
2 Carrol Dawson (PC Load Letter, T.Shock)
1 John Paxson (ScottMay)


----------



## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

I mentioned earlier that I don't like what Harris has done in Milwaukee...and I think Dawson's McGrady trade was a good one, even if it hasn't turned out terribly well so far. They're definitely lower tier. McHale drafted Garnett, he survives. Kupchak, I thought, did alright for Shaq...he basically got the nucleus of a promising Heat team and replaced Wade with Kobe. Not bad...though Brian Grant appears done. I still don't see Grunfeld being that bad what with Washington's talent and success. Hmm...I'm obviously just thinking out loud here...then there is John Paxson. Some sort of sick loyalty is preventing me from voting for him because I was so wrong about Ben Gordon and he was so right...so Gordon saves him.

My vote, then, goes to Larry Harris. Trade Redd, you fool!


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Dawson gets my vote next round if he's still there... that's a putrid draft record.

Those voting for Rod Thorn should also note his fleecing of Dawson... Eddie Griffin for RJeff and Jason Collins


----------



## Lets_Play_2 (Jan 22, 2004)

Bye Bye Mitch....

Mitch Kupchak (LAL)

IMO, this guy has taken a functional team that had "Championship" written all over them and has instead torn it up, capped them for the remainder of eternity, and has a talented, but unlikely to ever be a championship contender.

Summary: This guy has taken a "team that could jump over tall buildings" and turned them into a "team that leaves high marks on the wall where they go *SPLAT*".

Hit the road, Jack....


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Hit the road, Pax.


----------



## Laker Freak (Jul 1, 2003)

I vote Dawson for all those bad picks and bringing in JVG. Also trading for Juwan Howard is enough to be fired.

For those of you saying Kupchak, he did draft Cook and Walton with late picks and was forced to trade Shaq and got 2 starters and a 6th man for Gary Payton. The only bad contract he has given out was Divac, but it was in the same summer he signed Kobe Bryant.


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

OK - Dawson


----------



## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

Dawson


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 10 ELIMINATION - Carrol Dawson

5 Carrol Dawson (PC Load Letter, T.Shock, Laker Freak, johnston797, ChiBulls2315)
4 Mitch Kupchak (Rhyder, Mikedc, HAWK23, Lets_Play_2)
2 John Paxson (ScottMay, DaBullz)
1 Larry Harris (BealeFarange)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT - GM Challenge (Survivor Style)*

ROUND 11

Alive
Bernie Bickerstaff- Bobcats
Larry Harris-Bucks
JOHN Paxson-Bulls
Jerry West-Grizzlies
Pat Riley-Heat
Allan Bristow-Hornets
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
Mitch Kupchak-Lakers
John Weisbrod-Magic
Don Nelson-Mavs
Rod Thorn- Nets
Kiki Vandegwhe-Nuggets
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
Rick Sund-Sonics
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns
Kevin McHale-T Wolves
Ernie Grunfeld-Wizards

Already Eliminated
20. ???
21. Carrol Dawson - Rockets (PC Load Letter, T.Shock, Laker Freak, johnston797, ChiBulls2315)
22. Billy Knight - Hawks (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange, jollyoscars, T.Shock)
23. Rob Babcock - Raptors (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter, Mikedc, ScottMay)
24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC)


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Pax again.


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Bristow - NO is a mess.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Since I had some support finally (Beale) I'm going to have to switch back to:

Larry Harris


----------



## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> Bristow - NO is a mess.


He didn't hire Floyd, did he? I don't think so. Plus, he just traded David Wesley for Jim Jackson and Bostjan Nachbar. That earns him some time.

McHale gets more time from me. I didn't know he was the one who drafted KG.

Kupchak has to go for ever trading Shaq (though he got abuot as much as he could for him). You should never let it get that far.


----------



## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

Alright Rhyder, you and me: 

LARRY HARRIS


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

Larry Harris- MIL

dismantling the big 3 was a big mistake...


----------



## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> Larry Harris- MIL
> 
> dismantling the big 3 was a big mistake...



Grunfeld is the one that traded the big 3.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 11 UPDATE
3 Larry Harris (Rhyder, BealeFarange, HAWK23)
1 John Paxson (DaBullz)
1 Allan Bristow (johnston797)
1 Mitch Kupchak (PC Load Letter)


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBulls2315</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Grunfeld is the one that traded the big 3.


oops... well he is up next then for me most likely...


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBulls2315</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Grunfeld is the one that traded the big 3.


Another reason why I voted Grunfeld in earlier rounds. Idea didn't seem to be catching, so I've changed my own votes around to try and eliminate guys more deserving over another (in my eyes)


----------



## Lets_Play_2 (Jan 22, 2004)

Ok, I'm going to give both Mitch & Ernie a break.

LARRY HARRIS

Looking at that team lineup, Michael Redd better be taking really good care of his shooting arm, because he's going to need it.


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

John Paxson.

Larry Harris the most financially handcuffed GM in the league. Drafting Ford looks like a bad move, but I can't kill him for anything else.


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

I KNEW I should have checked in on this earlier! I could have cast the deciding vote against Kupchak.

Well, I'll vote for him now. Laker Freak didn't convince me by mentioning the juggernaut of Cook/Walton. Though I do admit that he got more for Payton than he had any right to, that's pretty much the only positive move he's made in several years in my opinion.


----------



## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

Gotta vote for Mitch Kupchak here.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Kupchak again

Larry Harris and Bristow seem to be doing what they can with the (****ty) circumstances they've been given.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 11 UPDATE

4 Larry Harris (Rhyder, BealeFarange, HAWK23, Lets_Play_2)
4 Mitch Kupchak (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, RP McMurphy, 
Mikedc)
2 John Paxson (DaBullz, ScottMay)
1 Allan Bristow (johnston797)


----------



## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

<<< barely not enough of a loser to take the time to register a new screen name just to get Kupchak voted off...


----------



## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

There's something about the aura surrounding the Milwaukee team that I just don't like. Perhaps the sense of impending doom when/if Michael Redd leaves. I know that Harris hasn't had much to do with the demolition of the big three and the whole George Karl fiasco but I still think that there are some very important culture moves that should or could be made. For instance, I wouldn't sign Kendal Gill if I were him because I would want some guy driving in from Chicago (as Kukoc does, too) to earn his paycheck. I just don't think that's a good culture buiding move. There is nothing WRONG with it, per se, I just feel there is a lot of dead air there. And the drafts have been ok, but not great...the money is bad but not used very creatively...not a lot of risks are taken...they're going to lose their only real good player...

These are some of the same reasons I think Babcock got picked even though he inherited a bad situation. I think Kupchak is getting dumped on because of the high profile of his moves but I don't think they've been bad moves. I think Bristow is in maybe the worst position and I think he's made two outstanding trades so far to try and remedy the situation. 

Harris, then Ernie/Pax for me.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Harris and Grunfeld are my next two candidates to be knocked off.

Then I'm after Kiki, Kupchak and Pax. I haven't quite made up my mind yet on these three.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PC Load Letter</b>!
> <<< barely not enough of a loser to take the time to register a new screen name just to get Kupchak voted off...


***makes mental note***


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Grunfeld's done a pretty good job in DC. Arenas, Jamison, and sound cap moves so far.


----------



## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

here's a question: I tend to agree that grunfeld's done a good job in washington...but I don't think he did a great job in milwaukee.

Does that count?


----------



## krob (Jul 6, 2002)

anyone who breaks up a dynasty should be put out... Mitch Kupchak... He GONE!


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>krob</b>!
> anyone who breaks up a dynasty should be put out... Mitch Kupchak... He GONE!


I don't like the Lakers and may not have followed this as closely as I should have, but wasn't the decision to trade Shaq made by Buss and Kupchak's marching orders were simply to find the best possible deal for the big guy?

I have no real problem with Kupchak getting the boot at this spot, but I just want to make sure I have the story straight.


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> Larry Harris and Bristow seem to be doing what they can with the (****ty) circumstances they've been given.


Bristow got fired in less than one year as the GM in Denver. Not easy to do.


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't like the Lakers and may not have followed this as closely as I should have, but wasn't the decision to trade Shaq made by Buss and Kupchak's marching orders were simply to find the best possible deal for the big guy?
> ...


That is the prevailing wisdom, but I don't think anyone but Buss and Kupchak really know the answer to that. In any event, I don't think either of them tried hard enough to keep the nucleus of that team intact - how much of that is Kupchak's fault is speculation. I mean, even when Kobe and Shaq hated each other they were a far more dangerous team than this year's Lakers can dream of being.

Even if he's not at fault for that at all, I don't think he's done a good job for LAL at all. He stood pat around the edges of that team other than the Payton/Malone coup, and that might have cost them a chance to 4-peat. And he was, at the very least, an accessory to the dismantling of a team that had two of the league's most dominant, and not-yet-old, players.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 11 ELIMINATION: Mitch Kupchak

5 Mitch Kupchak (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, RP McMurphy, 
Mikedc, krob)
4 Larry Harris (Rhyder, BealeFarange, HAWK23, Lets_Play_2)
2 John Paxson (DaBullz, ScottMay)
1 Allan Bristow (johnston797)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT - GM Challenge (Survivor Style)*

ROUND 12

Alive
Bernie Bickerstaff- Bobcats
Larry Harris-Bucks
JOHN Paxson-Bulls
Jerry West-Grizzlies
Pat Riley-Heat
Allan Bristow-Hornets
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
John Weisbrod-Magic
Don Nelson-Mavs
Rod Thorn- Nets
Kiki Vandegwhe-Nuggets
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
Rick Sund-Sonics
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns
Kevin McHale-T Wolves
Ernie Grunfeld-Wizards

Already Eliminated
19. ???
20. Mitch Kupchak - Lakers (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, RP McMurphy,
Mikedc, krob)
21. Carrol Dawson - Rockets (PC Load Letter, T.Shock, Laker Freak, johnston797, ChiBulls2315)
22. Billy Knight - Hawks (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange, jollyoscars, T.Shock)
23. Rob Babcock - Raptors (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter, Mikedc, ScottMay)
24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Larry Harris


----------



## krob (Jul 6, 2002)

did allan bristow hire tim floyd?


----------



## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

John Paxton


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rhyder</b>!
> Larry Harris


Me too. He kind of sticks out like a sore thumb at this point. The rest of the GMs have done their share of good things or haven't had the time to make a mark yet. The Bucks are going absolutely nowhere despite last year's gutsy team, and they're probably going to lose their only marquee player. That might not be his fault, but even ignoring that, the Bucks are an incredibly limited roster.


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>krob</b>!
> did allan bristow hire tim floyd?


but this is an excellent question. I don't know. If he did, that alone is grounds for getting the axe next round.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ViciousFlogging</b>!
> 
> 
> Me too. He kind of sticks out like a sore thumb at this point. The rest of the GMs have done their share of good things or haven't had the time to make a mark yet. The Bucks are going absolutely nowhere despite last year's gutsy team, and they're probably going to lose their only marquee player. That might not be his fault, but even ignoring that, the Bucks are an incredibly limited roster.


Can you distinguish Paxson and Harris very well?

Harris didn't take over until just prior to the 03 draft. He drafted TJ Ford, who looked like a very good pick. The injury thing sucks, but I don't see how it's Harris' fault any more than Jay Williams' injury could be pinned on Krause or Paxson.

His hire of Terry Porter appeared to be a good one.

Trading Tim Thomas, who's a slug of player, for Keith Van Horn, who at least produces, wasn't a bad move.

They've got plenty o' cap space coming up in the next couple of years, even after they re-sign Redd (who sounded optimistic about staying).


-----------------

Guys we should be thinking about.

Paxson
Bickerstaff. So far so good with the Bobbies, but I don't think anyone remembers him fondly in Denver or Washington.
Bristow... I'll look up if he hired Pink.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Bristow was assistant GM under Bob Bass in New Orleans during the Pink Floyd era. I think Pink got in the owner's good graces to get himself hired, but I can't find any articles speculating on that.


----------



## krob (Jul 6, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> Bristow was assistant GM under Bob Bass in New Orleans during the Pink Floyd era. I think Pink got in the owner's good graces to get himself hired, but I can't find any articles speculating on that.



close enough...

Bristow


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!
> 
> 
> Can you distinguish Paxson and Harris very well?
> ...


Comparing rosters, I'd rather have ours than the Bucks', even though they have Redd and we don't. I didn't realize that he'd only been on the job since 03, so that does change things.

I thought Ford's condition was well-known pre-draft? Or was that another existing condition that was unrelated? If not, risking a pick that high on him is less understandable than Pax's misfortune in Jay's bad choice to ride that bike.

Trading Thomas was a good move. We have some cap space coming, too, depending on what we do in the meantime. And if no one wants to take our money or live in Chicago, why would anyone want to sign with Milwaukee? It's a smaller, crappier city with, currently, an equally crappy team.

But as I said, I didn't realize he hadn't been on the job longer. I should brush up on these things a bit more before I vote. Even so, I'll keep my vote the same. I'm one fan who likes what Pax has done so far overall. He's safe with me for another couple rounds, I think.


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ViciousFlogging</b>!
> 
> 
> Comparing rosters, I'd rather have ours than the Bucks', even though they have Redd and we don't. I didn't realize that he'd only been on the job since 03, so that does change things.
> ...


Here's an article on Ford's injury. Sounds like a fall aggravated a pre-existing condition that was well known before the draft (although I don't remember hearing about it). 

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/bucks/2004-04-23-ford-surgery_x.htm

One of the best things about this thread is that it's good reason to go find out about all these other guys.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 12 UPDATE

2 Larry Harris (Rhyder, ViciousFlogging)
1 John Paxson (texan)
1 Allan Bristow (krob)


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

LARRY HARRIS


----------



## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

Larry Harris, but John Paxson, you go bye-bye soon. I just don't like the cut of your jib 

My vote: Larry Harris.


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>krob</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:yes:


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 12 UPDATE

4 Larry Harris (Rhyder, ViciousFlogging, HAWK23, airety)
2 Allan Bristow (krob, johnston797)
1 John Paxson (texan)


----------



## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

Alright, did a background check on Bickerstaff, the GM. Before the Bobcats, he was president and GM of the Nuggets from 1990 to 1997. 

219-355 record over that span. Team's best record during that time, 42 wins. 

1990 #3 Chris Jackson (pathetic draft)
1991 #4 Dikembe #8Mark Macon
1992 #5 LaPhonso Ellis #14 Bryant Stith
1993 #8 Rodney Rogers
1994 #13 Jalen Rose
1995 traded #15 Brent Barry and Rodney Rogers for McDyess, who was the #2 overall pick.
1996 # 23 Efthimis Rentzias


Trades

Jalen Rose (23 years old) traded by the Nuggets with Reggie Williams and a 1996 first-round pick (#10 overall Erick Dampier) to the Indiana Pacers for Mark Jackson (31 years old), Ricky Pierce and a 1996 first-round pick ( #23 Efthimis Rentzias) on 6/13/96.

Mark Jackson traded by the Nuggets with LaSalle Thompson to the Pacers for Vincent Askew, Eddie Johnson and 2nd-round draft choices in 1997 and 1998 on 2/20/97, not even a year later. 

Lost Dikembe to Atlanta for nothing

Now he's made some nice moves with Charlotte in moving up from 4 to 2 for nothing when you consider he got back the high 2nd round pick from Atlanta and got rid of Drobnjak's contract, which was supposed to be the down side of that trade and they got a couple other guys who should stick around a while there. 


But I'm going to go with him over Harris for now based on his tenure in Denver. He had a couple decent picks, but in a 7 year span, his best team only won 42 games. And it isn't all his fault, but Denver then only won 46 games over the next 3 years with the team he left them. 

Harris had 41 last year in a tough situation. Grunfeld traded Sam Cassell for Joe Smith like 4 days before heading to Washington. I still don't understand why he's trading players while he was flriting with Washington and left the team less than a week after. But for what he was dealt, he got Porter as coach, and signed a few guys on the cheap were or have been good for them in Skinner, Jones,and now Mo Williams and traded a lazy player in TT for KVH. Decent moves for what he was dealt. How he deals with Redd and the possible cap space in a few years will decide his longterm status as GM. He might be next to go just based on experience, but count me in for Bickerstaff right now.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBulls2315</b>!
> Alright, did a background check on Bickerstaff, the GM. Before the Bobcats, he was president and GM of the Nuggets from 1990 to 1997.
> 
> 219-355 record over that span. Team's best record during that time, 42 wins.
> ...


I'm with you on Bickerstaff after Harris, Grunfeld & Paxson are eliminated


----------



## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

I wouldn't go with Grunfeld yet. Milwaukee went from 28 to 42 wins his first year there. 52 the next including within a shot of going to the Finals against the 6ers, and then 42 and 41 wins. He got Cassell for Brandon, traded Big Dog just at the right time, for Kukoc, who was great for them (and had a year less on his contract) and a pick that turned into TJ Ford. That Ray Allen trade was not good at all, but I remember hearing talk here in WI that the move was made b/c Senator Kohl was going to sell the team and GP had an expiring contract that year so maybe that move wasn't all his doing. That's kind of interesting, but I guess he still has to take credit for doing it. I think his first round picks were crap, but he got Redd in the 2nd round. Bad moves, sign Anthony Mason for 4 years hurt their cap situation for the past few years while ruining that team they had going and taking on Caffey's bad contract. 

He got Arenas with the cap space he was handed, and has made a nice trade to get Jamison. 

He also was the head man in NY when they made the Finals. He got Sprewell for Starks and Chris Mills, and got a young Camby for a washed up Oakley.


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBulls2315</b>!
> Alright, did a background check on Bickerstaff, the GM. Before the Bobcats, he was president and GM of the Nuggets from 1990 to 1997.


He must still be better than Bristow. 

Bristow only got one year as GM in Denver. "The 1997-98 Nuggets are a team that sought long and hard to find silver linings following a 11-71 season in which they narrowly avoided the fewest single-season wins in NBA history" 
:frenchy: 

He is going HARD after the record again. TWO WINS so far!

How is this Bristow *still* in the competition?


----------



## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> 
> 
> He must still be better than Bristow.
> ...


I came across his name while I was looking for info on the Nuggets, but I wasn't sure what the deal was there. Was he a guy that was handed the job temporariliy for a few months after Bickerstaff was fired just to fill the title or what? I couldn't find out how long he was actually there. Besides that I see he just got his job 6 months ago and having your 3 best players out with injuries is some bad luck. Not that I'm high on him or anything.


----------



## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

I've been persuaded to lay off Larry Harris. He owes MikeDC a Christmas card or something. 

Hate to say it, though...this leads me towards Pax territory...
Bristow has a mess in NO with injuries and has made two very good trades in my opinion. Has Pax ever made a good trade? No. And I still think he lucked out in the draft this year. Grunfeld, to me, is a pretty decent GM. Bickerstaff has a good, solid foundation going in Charlotte. Harris...well, he's still close to gone. 

Here it is: John Paxson.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)




----------



## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

I think it's time to vote for Pax. Or, as I like to say, "it's time to DaBullz this joint."


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

John Macbeth Paxson . . . please?


----------



## Lets_Play_2 (Jan 22, 2004)

Sorry guys, It's time for *LARRY HARRIS* to hit the bricks.

GoodBye!


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBulls2315</b>!
> 
> 
> I came across his name while I was looking for info on the Nuggets, but I wasn't sure what the deal was there. Was he a guy that was handed the job temporariliy for a few months after Bickerstaff was fired just to fill the title or what? I couldn't find out how long he was actually there. Besides that I see he just got his job 6 months ago and having your 3 best players out with injuries is some bad luck. Not that I'm high on him or anything.


Not many books were written on the *Bristow* stint as GM in Denver. But he did have the full title and he was replace by Dan Issel.

Sure, the guy has had injury problems this year, but he had an embarissingly short stint at Denver and got hired by just about the worst owner in NBA and his team is aweful again. 

Aren't we to the average GMs? What suggests that Bristow is even close to average?

p.s. How is trading David Wesley for a stiff and a guy who won't show a good trade? They are still capped out for the next 2 seasons?


----------



## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

pax


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

John MacBeth Paxson
Position: G
Height: 6' 2'' Weight: 185
Born: 9/29/1960, in Dayton, OH, USA 
High School: Archbishop Alter, in Kettering, OH 
College: Notre Dame


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lets_Play_2</b>!
> Sorry guys, It's time for *LARRY HARRIS* to hit the bricks.


This guy just got hired too.

Harris did pick up Zaza Pachulia for a second rounder and shored up their PG postion by signing M. Williams and M. James to very reasonable contracts. AND KVH has been hurt.

It's madness this guy is getting canned before Bristow.


----------



## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ScottMay</b>!
> John MacBeth Paxson
> Position: G
> Height: 6' 2'' Weight: 185
> ...


Wait a minute, his middle name is MacBeth? Oh my. Shouldn't that make every vote for him count double or something?

Also, after some convincing by Johnston, my vote next round is definitely going to Bristow. Allan Coriolanus Bristow.


----------



## Lets_Play_2 (Jan 22, 2004)

Originally posted by *Johnson797*:

"This guy [Larry Harris] just got hired too.

Harris did pick up Zaza Pachulia for a second rounder and shored up their PG postion by signing M. Williams and M. James to very reasonable contracts. AND KVH has been hurt.

It's madness this guy is getting canned before Bristow."

Well, if we base on that analysis, John Paxson needs to get a pass for a couple of more rounds:

1. Jay Williams = gone due to injury.
2. Pippen = lost over 50% of playing time due to injuries.
3. TC = Lost almost all of last season due to injury.
4. Had to eventually dump "Sweater Cancer" (Eddie Robinson) in an 'addition by subtraction' type of move that cost over $10 mil.

All the above, in Year 02......

And his draft picks have been pretty solid during his term, to say the least.

And we all say BG is too small for a SG - look at the Bucks, they have a smurf for a PG, and he's injured, and it's not a good type of injury.


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

I think Pax got voted out just before Harris got his 5th.

Do we want to kick both out?


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 12 ELIMINATION: John Paxson

ScottMay's vote came before Lets_Play, so Pax is gone.

5 John Paxson (texan, BealeFarange, TomBoerwinkle#1, PC Load Letter, ScottMay)
4 Larry Harris (Rhyder, ViciousFlogging, HAWK23, airety)
2 Allan Bristow (krob, johnston797)
1 Bernie Bickerstaff (ChiBulls2315)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT - GM Challenge (Survivor Style)*

ROUND 13

Alive
Bernie Bickerstaff- Bobcats
Larry Harris-Bucks
Jerry West-Grizzlies
Pat Riley-Heat
Allan Bristow-Hornets
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
John Weisbrod-Magic
Don Nelson-Mavs
Rod Thorn- Nets
Kiki Vandegwhe-Nuggets
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
Rick Sund-Sonics
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns
Kevin McHale-T Wolves
Ernie Grunfeld-Wizards

Already Eliminated
18. ???
19. JOHN Paxson - Bulls (texan, BealeFarange, TomBoerwinkle#1, PC Load Letter, ScottMay)
20. Mitch Kupchak - Lakers (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, RP McMurphy,
Mikedc, krob)
21. Carrol Dawson - Rockets (PC Load Letter, T.Shock, Laker Freak, johnston797, ChiBulls2315)
22. Billy Knight - Hawks (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange, jollyoscars, T.Shock)
23. Rob Babcock - Raptors (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter, Mikedc, ScottMay)
24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC) [/QUOTE]


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

LARRY HARRIS- MIL


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

I'm going to change my tune a little bit. I told myself that all three of GMs that haven't had a long tenure still left on the board should go out approximately the same time.

I think Bickerstaff>Paxson>Bristow. Since Pax has already been eliminated, I'm going to have to cast my vote for:

Allan Bristow


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

I'll vote for Harris.

I just realized how freaking long this is going to take once we get to the good GMs.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Just as an aside, I'm taking off about 2:00pm today and heading out of town for New Years. I doubt I'll be back on to check the voting after 2:00pm today until sometime in the afternoon tomorrow.

Unless round 13 goes quickly, round 14 won't start until sometime tomorrow. Discussion in the interim is still encouraged of course.


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Bristow


----------



## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

Gotta go with Bristow, as well.


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

It's interesting that if we'd run this thing before the season, a lot of different choices probably would have been made. Sund would have been one of the first three or four people taken out, but with the Sonics unexpectedly winning this season, he could last well into the 2nd half. And Colangelo would have been on the chopping block fairly soon, too - though the Suns' overall track record with them in charge has been pretty good.

Mikedc convinced me to show Harris a bit of clemency. He hasn't had much time to build, and was given a somewhat lousy hand. I voted for him last time thinking he'd had an extra year on the job.

So, since he was an accomplice to the Floyd hiring/Silas removal and his team is currently 2-20something, I'm voting for Bristow this time.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 13 UPDATE

4 Allan Bristow (Rhyder, johnston797, PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging)
2 Larry Harris (HAWK23, ScottMay)


----------



## krob (Jul 6, 2002)

bristow... goodbye


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 13 ELIMINATION: Allan Bristow

5 Allan Bristow (Rhyder, johnston797, PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, krob)
2 Larry Harris (HAWK23, ScottMay)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT - GM Challenge (Survivor Style*

ROUND 14

Alive
Bernie Bickerstaff- Bobcats
Larry Harris-Bucks
Jerry West-Grizzlies
Pat Riley-Heat
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
John Weisbrod-Magic
Don Nelson-Mavs
Rod Thorn- Nets
Kiki Vandegwhe-Nuggets
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
Rick Sund-Sonics
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns
Kevin McHale-T Wolves
Ernie Grunfeld-Wizards

Already Eliminated
17. ???
18. Allan Bristow - Hornets (Rhyder, johnston797, PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, krob)
19. JOHN Paxson - Bulls (texan, BealeFarange, TomBoerwinkle#1, PC Load Letter, ScottMay)
20. Mitch Kupchak - Lakers (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, RP McMurphy,
Mikedc, krob)
21. Carrol Dawson - Rockets (PC Load Letter, T.Shock, Laker Freak, johnston797, ChiBulls2315)
22. Billy Knight - Hawks (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange, jollyoscars, T.Shock)
23. Rob Babcock - Raptors (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter, Mikedc, ScottMay)
24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

I'm going to have to go to one of my other earlier entry votes this round.

Ernie Grunfeld

(I'm now taking off for New Year's) Vote whenever you like, but round 15 won't start until tomorrow.


----------



## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

Larry Freaking Harris.

And I'm officially beginning my campaign for my #1 guy, R.C. Buford. This guy gets more talent out of the 2nd round than most teams do in the 1st.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Larry Harris...Buh-Bye.


----------



## Lets_Play_2 (Jan 22, 2004)

Larry Harris


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

harris damn it!


----------



## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Harris...just cause I don't know him


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 14 ELIMINATION: Larry Harris

5 Larry Harris (ScottMay, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2, HAWK23, T.Shock)
1 Ernie Grunfeld (Rhyder)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT - GM Challenge (Survivor S*

ROUND 15

Alive
Bernie Bickerstaff- Bobcats
Jerry West-Grizzlies
Pat Riley-Heat
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
John Weisbrod-Magic
Don Nelson-Mavs
Rod Thorn- Nets
Kiki Vandegwhe-Nuggets
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
Rick Sund-Sonics
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns
Kevin McHale-T Wolves
Ernie Grunfeld-Wizards

Already Eliminated
16. ???
17. Larry Harris - Bucks (ScottMay, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2, HAWK23, T.Shock)
18. Allan Bristow - Hornets (Rhyder, johnston797, PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, krob)
19. JOHN Paxson - Bulls (texan, BealeFarange, TomBoerwinkle#1, PC Load Letter, ScottMay)
20. Mitch Kupchak - Lakers (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, RP McMurphy,
Mikedc, krob)
21. Carrol Dawson - Rockets (PC Load Letter, T.Shock, Laker Freak, johnston797, ChiBulls2315)
22. Billy Knight - Hawks (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange, jollyoscars, T.Shock)
23. Rob Babcock - Raptors (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter, Mikedc, ScottMay)
24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Ernie Grunfeld


----------



## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Kevin O'Connor

Overrated, everybody loves the Jazz cause their old-school but they lucked into Kirilenko and since then Boozer and Okur haven't been dominating the inside.


----------



## Lets_Play_2 (Jan 22, 2004)

Time's up for Ernie (Da Wiz).

He's created a team with what has been described as "...a shot-happy (Antawn) Jamison and (Gilbert) Arenas, and the more team-oriented (Larry) Hughes....."

He's got a Kwame Brown (to steal a Winston Churchill quip about Russia), who fits on the Wizards as a "riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma'".

Grunfeld has basically created a .500 team for today and for the forseeable future, and has no real other options except to (a) play out the string over the next 3-4+ years at around a .500 clip; (b) Hope & pray that somebody 'gets it' & breaks the barrier; or (c) Tear down & start over AGAIN.

Ok, now exactly why have we kept this guy around so long?

Ernie, my man, you are TOAST!

Edit: Quoting Churchill on a basketballboards.net thread on New Year's Eve. What am I thinking of.....


----------



## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lets_Play_2</b>!
> Time's up for Ernie (Da Wiz).
> 
> He's created a team with what has been described as "...a shot-happy (Antawn) Jamison and (Gilbert) Arenas, and the more team-oriented (Larry) Hughes....."
> ...



Washington has a pretty darn good young nucleus which isn't all his doing but he hasn't blown it up and their cap situation is not at all bad. They got plenty of young tradable players to make moves. He's done a pretty nice job in Washington so far IMO. He also got a Knicks team to the NBA Finals. 

Count me in for Bernie. His _best_ team won 42 games over a 7 year span.


----------



## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

John Weisbrod.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

I'm going to go with Kevin McHale here...

yes drafting KG was his greatest move... however not ever significantly trying to give KG a supporting cast (up untill last yr by getting spree/cassell)

There should have been some way he could have kept Marbury happy and tried to do whatever he had to to keep KG and him together.

The biggest reason he should go however is because of the whole Joe Smith controversey.... STUPID STUPID STUPID...


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>airety</b>!
> John Weisbrod.


Really? I mean, he won't last until the final 4 or anything, but he turned a league-worst team into a slightly above average team in one offseason. Traded a marquee superstar and got good value back. Took a risk with his #1 pick that looks like it'll pay off. Changed the attitude of the team. 

I'll grant that getting a healthy Grant Hill back should take a fair chunk of the credit for the team's success, but I think his moves have been solid. He will have to go soon, though, as we're getting down to GMs with relatively long track records of success now.

My vote this round is for Bickerstaff. He seems to be doing good things for Charlotte, but his fairly long previous record as a GM is...uninspiring. And most of the GMs left now have better ones.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 15 UPDATE

2 Ernie Grunfeld (Rhyder, Lets_Play_2)
2 Bernie Bickerstaff (ChiBulls2315, ViciousFlogging)
1 John Weisbrod (airety)
1 Kevin O'Connor (T.Shock)
1 Kevin McHale (HAWK23)

***EDIT***

Sorry about that ChiBulls2315


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rhyder</b>!
> ROUND 15 UPDATE
> 
> 3 Ernie Grunfeld (Rhyder, Lets_Play_2, ChiBulls2315)
> ...


Didn't ChiBulls2315 vote for Bickerstaff on the bottom of the last page?


----------



## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ViciousFlogging</b>!
> 
> 
> Really? I mean, he won't last until the final 4 or anything, but he turned a league-worst team into a slightly above average team in one offseason. Traded a marquee superstar and got good value back. Took a risk with his #1 pick that looks like it'll pay off. Changed the attitude of the team.
> ...


That team is all Grant Hill's return. Poor management of the cap. Had a draft where he couldn't have gone wrong, really (top 3 drafted all look like studs, but none of them is leaps ahead of the other two.) Howard looks solid, but still has a long way to go. There was the coaching debacle too, last year. Wasn't Rivers' fault.

You look at that list, and with the exception of maybe Grunfeld, every one of those GMs has a lot to be proud off. Weisbrod has luck to be proud of, because if Grant Hill isn't on the floor we're looking at an awful Orlando team.


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>airety</b>!
> 
> 
> That team is all Grant Hill's return. Poor management of the cap. Had a draft where he couldn't have gone wrong, really (top 3 drafted all look like studs, but none of them is leaps ahead of the other two.) Howard looks solid, but still has a long way to go. There was the coaching debacle too, last year. Wasn't Rivers' fault.
> ...


You (sorta) talked me into it although I was already not crazy about the TMAC trade. I don't think you can win big long term with Francis or Mobley. For TMAC, you should get at least one complete piece to the puzzle. 

Weisbrod, it is.


----------



## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ViciousFlogging</b>!
> 
> 
> Didn't ChiBulls2315 vote for Bickerstaff on the bottom of the last page?



:yes:


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)




----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 15 UPDATE

3 Ernie Grunfeld (Rhyder, Lets_Play_2, TomBoerwinkle#1)
2 Bernie Bickerstaff (ChiBulls2315, ViciousFlogging)
2 John Weisbrod (airety, johnston797)
1 Kevin O'Connor (T.Shock)
1 Kevin McHale (HAWK23)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBulls2315</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> :yes:


It was unintentional. The tallies should now be correct.


----------



## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

How does Bernie have two votes? He has a great expansion team coming along

Ernie got my vote


----------



## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Theo!</b>!
> How does Bernie have two votes? He has a great expansion team coming along
> 
> Ernie got my vote



.382 winning percentage in 7 years with Denver. Ernie's worst team has got to be as good as Bernies' best record wise. Ern is getting absolutely shafted!


----------



## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

Bernie Bickerstaff


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

OK - we all saw how good the Magic are. Now imagine them without Hill. And while Howard is a nice building block, Okafor would have been fine, too.

Lets take out Weisbrod.


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> OK - we all saw how good the Magic are. Now imagine them without Hill. And while Howard is a nice building block, Okafor would have been fine, too.
> 
> Lets take out Weisbrod.


I know I questioned that choice just a few posts ago, but looking at the guys who are left, he has to be one of the next to go. I went with Bickerstaff for his prior record of utter futility. Weisbrod's team is on track for a huge single-season improvement, even if it's not necessarily his splendid GM decisions that made it so.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 15 UPDATE

4 Ernie Grunfeld (Rhyder, Lets_Play_2, TomBoerwinkle#1, Theo!)
3 Bernie Bickerstaff (ChiBulls2315, ViciousFlogging, texan)
2 John Weisbrod (airety, johnston797)
1 Kevin O'Connor (T.Shock)
1 Kevin McHale (HAWK23)


----------



## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

someone vote!


----------



## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

GRUNFIELD


----------



## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

BICKERSTAFF is my vote for next round since i just gave the deciding vote for grunfield and i dont check here everyday to vote.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 15 ELIMINATION: Ernie Grunfeld

5 Ernie Grunfeld (Rhyder, Lets_Play_2, TomBoerwinkle#1, Theo!, jollyoscars)
3 Bernie Bickerstaff (ChiBulls2315, ViciousFlogging, texan)
2 John Weisbrod (airety, johnston797)
1 Kevin O'Connor (T.Shock)
1 Kevin McHale (HAWK23)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT - GM Challenge (Surviv*

ROUND 16

Alive
Bernie Bickerstaff- Bobcats
Jerry West-Grizzlies
Pat Riley-Heat
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
John Weisbrod-Magic
Don Nelson-Mavs
Rod Thorn- Nets
Kiki Vandegwhe-Nuggets
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
Rick Sund-Sonics
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns
Kevin McHale-T Wolves

Already Eliminated
15. ???
16. Ernie Grunfeld - Wizards (Rhyder, Lets_Play_2, TomBoerwinkle#1, Theo!, jollyoscars)
17. Larry Harris - Bucks (ScottMay, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2, HAWK23, T.Shock)
18. Allan Bristow - Hornets (Rhyder, johnston797, PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, krob)
19. JOHN Paxson - Bulls (texan, BealeFarange, TomBoerwinkle#1, PC Load Letter, ScottMay)
20. Mitch Kupchak - Lakers (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, RP McMurphy,
Mikedc, krob)
21. Carrol Dawson - Rockets (PC Load Letter, T.Shock, Laker Freak, johnston797, ChiBulls2315)
22. Billy Knight - Hawks (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange, jollyoscars, T.Shock)
23. Rob Babcock - Raptors (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter, Mikedc, ScottMay)
24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Other posters have me sold:

John Weisbrod


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

1 Bernie Bickerstaff (jollyoscars)
1 John Weisbrod (Rhyder)

Just wanted to post this to let jolly and other posters know that I counted the vote.


----------



## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

Bernie


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rhyder</b>!
> Other posters have me sold:
> 
> John Weisbrod


:yes: 

p.s. this challenge will really get interesting after Weisbord and Bernie.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

Bernie


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Weisbrod. Bernie gets a bye because he has an inherent uphill battle.


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

I'm sticking with Bickerstaff, but he and Weisbrod are the obvious next two choices.


----------



## Lets_Play_2 (Jan 22, 2004)

I'll buy in with John Weisbrod. But he really hasn't done that bad of job, considering where the Magic were last year.


----------



## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

Bernie Bickerstaff


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

I count 5 Bernies, so I'll assume next round and vote John Weisbrod. I'd probably go with him anyways: If he would have stood by TMac, and drafted Okafor, the Magic may have been the team to beat with Hill back in the mix.


----------



## Lets_Play_2 (Jan 22, 2004)

John Weisbrod.

It's his time to say "Goodbye"....


----------



## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

So long John.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 16 ELIMINATION: Bernie Bickerstaff

5 Bernie Bickerstaff (jollyoscars, ChiBulls2315, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan)
4 John Weisbrod (Rhyder, johnston797, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT - GM Challenge (Su*

ROUND 17

Alive
Jerry West-Grizzlies
Pat Riley-Heat
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
John Weisbrod-Magic
Don Nelson-Mavs
Rod Thorn- Nets
Kiki Vandegwhe-Nuggets
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
Rick Sund-Sonics
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns
Kevin McHale-T Wolves

Already Eliminated
14. ???
15. Bernie Bickerstaff - Bobcats (jollyoscars, ChiBulls2315, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan)
16. Ernie Grunfeld - Wizards (Rhyder, Lets_Play_2, TomBoerwinkle#1, Theo!, jollyoscars)
17. Larry Harris - Bucks (ScottMay, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2, HAWK23, T.Shock)
18. Allan Bristow - Hornets (Rhyder, johnston797, PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, krob)
19. JOHN Paxson - Bulls (texan, BealeFarange, TomBoerwinkle#1, PC Load Letter, ScottMay)
20. Mitch Kupchak - Lakers (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, RP McMurphy,
Mikedc, krob)
21. Carrol Dawson - Rockets (PC Load Letter, T.Shock, Laker Freak, johnston797, ChiBulls2315)
22. Billy Knight - Hawks (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange, jollyoscars, T.Shock)
23. Rob Babcock - Raptors (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter, Mikedc, ScottMay)
24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC) [/QUOTE]


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

John Weisbrod


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 17 UPDATE

4 John Weisbrod (such sweet thunder, Lets_Play_2, airety, Rhyder)

Counting the votes as such sweet thunder declared the next round...


----------



## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

John

So long.


----------



## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

my new gm proposition is kevin mchale for the next round since weisbrod has an impending boot. mchale has been brought up in the past and it wasnt his time then but now i think it is his time.


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

If this is the next round, I'll vote Mchale as well. While he was able to retool without shipping KG, the fraudulent signing of Joe Smith is inexcusable. I have no sympathy for the Jim Paxson's of the league who bend rules. There is a higher level of integrity expected of franchise GMs then players and their agents. Both of these franchise heads believed they were above the system and got what they deserved.


----------



## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

I think the next class includes Rod Thorn, Petrie, McHale, and Kiki. The order hardly matters, but those are the guys that stick out now.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 17 ELIMINATION: John Weisbrod

5 John Weisbrod (such sweet thunder, Lets_Play_2, airety, Rhyder, ChiBulls2315)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT - GM Challenge*

ROUND 18

Alive
Jerry West-Grizzlies
Pat Riley-Heat
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
Don Nelson-Mavs
Rod Thorn- Nets
Kiki Vandegwhe-Nuggets
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
Rick Sund-Sonics
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns
Kevin McHale-T Wolves

Already Eliminated
13. ???
14. John Weisbrod - Magic (such sweet thunder, Lets_Play_2, airety, Rhyder, ChiBulls2315)
15. Bernie Bickerstaff - Bobcats (jollyoscars, ChiBulls2315, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan)
16. Ernie Grunfeld - Wizards (Rhyder, Lets_Play_2, TomBoerwinkle#1, Theo!, jollyoscars)
17. Larry Harris - Bucks (ScottMay, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2, HAWK23, T.Shock)
18. Allan Bristow - Hornets (Rhyder, johnston797, PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, krob)
19. JOHN Paxson - Bulls (texan, BealeFarange, TomBoerwinkle#1, PC Load Letter, ScottMay)
20. Mitch Kupchak - Lakers (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, RP McMurphy,
Mikedc, krob)
21. Carrol Dawson - Rockets (PC Load Letter, T.Shock, Laker Freak, johnston797, ChiBulls2315)
22. Billy Knight - Hawks (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange, jollyoscars, T.Shock)
23. Rob Babcock - Raptors (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter, Mikedc, ScottMay)
24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC) [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

While McHale made one fatal mistake, he has turned the team around and was able to put together a title contender, even in the face of lost assets.

I think Petrie bailed on SAC town too early, and their payroll doesn't look the best either.

My vote: Geoff Petrie


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 18 UPDATE

2 Kevin McHale (jollyoscars, such sweet thunder)
1 Geoff Petrie (Rhyder)


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

McHale


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

I'll jump on the McHale bandwagon. I think he's a good GM overall, but none of the remaining GMs have the hideous black mark on their record that he has for the Joe Smith debacle. And he did that for Joe FREAKING Smith - it'd be more understandable, though no more forgiveable, if it had been for KG or a star-type player.


----------



## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

Don Nelson. Maybe if he and Mark Cuban kept a team together, that team would build chemistry and become a championship caliber team, instead of a perrenial play-off loser.


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>such sweet thunder</b>!
> If this is the next round, I'll vote Mchale as well. While he was able to retool without shipping KG, the fraudulent signing of Joe Smith is inexcusable. I have no sympathy for the Jim Paxson's of the league who bend rules. There is a higher level of integrity expected of franchise GMs then players and their agents. Both of these franchise heads believed they were above the system and got what they deserved.


Did McHale get suspended for the Smith deal or was it only the owner?


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Despite the Sonics playing well, I gotta go with Rick Sund.


----------



## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>texan</b>!
> Don Nelson. Maybe if he and Mark Cuban kept a team together, that team would build chemistry and become a championship caliber team, instead of a perrenial play-off loser.


If I woulda known, i woulda done it earlier

Don Nelson, his time is up


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 18 UPDATE

4 Kevin McHale (jollyoscars, such sweet thunder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging)
2 Don Nelson (texan, Theo!)
1 Geoff Petrie (Rhyder)
1 Rick Sund (johnston797)


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> 
> 
> Did McHale get suspended for the Smith deal or was it only the owner?


Both if I remember correctly. 

My favorite part of the whole fiasco was the talk of the Wolves suceeding from the NBA. As if the league would really miss their Minnesota extension? The Wolves would have made a hell of a CBA team.


----------



## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

Rod Thorn


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Kevin McHale, you are the weakest link. Goodbye.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 18 ELIMINATION: Kevin McHale

5 Kevin McHale (jollyoscars, such sweet thunder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, TomBoerwinkle#1)
2 Don Nelson (texan, Theo!)
1 Geoff Petrie (Rhyder)
1 Rick Sund (johnston797)
1 Rod Thorn (Pacers Fan)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT - GM Chall*

ROUND 19

Alive
Jerry West-Grizzlies
Pat Riley-Heat
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
Don Nelson-Mavs
Rod Thorn- Nets
Kiki Vandegwhe-Nuggets
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
Rick Sund-Sonics
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns


Already Eliminated
12. ???
13. Kevin McHale - T Wolves (jollyoscars, such sweet thunder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, TomBoerwinkle#1)
14. John Weisbrod - Magic (such sweet thunder, Lets_Play_2, airety, Rhyder, ChiBulls2315)
15. Bernie Bickerstaff - Bobcats (jollyoscars, ChiBulls2315, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan)
16. Ernie Grunfeld - Wizards (Rhyder, Lets_Play_2, TomBoerwinkle#1, Theo!, jollyoscars)
17. Larry Harris - Bucks (ScottMay, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2, HAWK23, T.Shock)
18. Allan Bristow - Hornets (Rhyder, johnston797, PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, krob)
19. JOHN Paxson - Bulls (texan, BealeFarange, TomBoerwinkle#1, PC Load Letter, ScottMay)
20. Mitch Kupchak - Lakers (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, RP McMurphy,
Mikedc, krob)
21. Carrol Dawson - Rockets (PC Load Letter, T.Shock, Laker Freak, johnston797, ChiBulls2315)
22. Billy Knight - Hawks (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange, jollyoscars, T.Shock)
23. Rob Babcock - Raptors (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter, Mikedc, ScottMay)
24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC)


----------



## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Still lobbyin for O'Connor


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Question about Donnie Nelson (Unlimited resources; good not great team)

Was he involved in getting Dirk?


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

I'm having a tough time here as well. My gut tells me Petrie or Thorn should be one of the next couple candidates to eliminate next.

Need to read up some more on the better GMs before I make my decision I guess.


----------



## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

Petrie may not have put together a champion, but I don't think there's anything wrong with him keeping that team together for so long. He has added on Brad Miller. His draft history is solid. Don't forget drafting Gerald Wallace, who I still think is going to be a player. He just let Vlade go when it was clear he had nothing left, giving more time to Miller. He did sign Webber long-term and basically make him untradeable, but is that really such a bad thing? OK, yeah, it's kinda bad, but that's his worst offense and that's not that bad.

Based just on team success, I'd have to go with Thorn at this point.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

After reading about some moves GMs have made as of late, I pretty much boiled it down to Rod Thorn or Don Nelson. I would be quick to boot Thorn out pre the Vince trade, but that has earned him some extra time, at least for now.

While the Mavs are always a fun team to watch, they remind me of Portland & New York in a way. They have generous owners in terms of dollars allowed to spend, but have yet to break out. Even though you expect them to make the playoffs each year, come playoff time, they really only having a small shot at making the Finals (at least in my opinion). Having the second highest payroll and only a small shot each year to even get to the finals means there's been some terrible money management in my opinion. Their financial situation really doesn't get better until 2008-2009 keeping the current roster in tact. Even if they make moves to free up some dollars, they are still over the cap, which won't give them any flexibility in terms of the FA market.

Obviously, New York and Portland are nowhere near the talent level that Dallas has (but this is why Nelson has made it this far).

While Finley is a very nice player, his contract is pretty ridiculous. Ditto Jason Terry, Stackhouse, and Tariq Abdul-Wahad.

My vote: Don Nelson


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

donnie nelson- DAL


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 19 UPDATE

2 Don Nelson (Rhyder, HAWK23)
1 Kevin O'Connor (T.Shock)
1 Rod Thorn (PC Load Letter)


----------



## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

Let's see... who is left. 

I think you really gotta look hard at Petrie right now. Webber is arguably the most overpayed player in the game right now, considering he is payed like a superstar and shows up to half the games a year, and doesn't seem to have that championship caliber. On top of that, Bibby seems to be the only true champion on that team--- the Game 7 really sticks out, when nobody could/would shoot except for Bibby.

On top of that, Christie is overpaid, Jackson is oft-injured, and there is no depth. This is a team that was drafting well (Turkoglu, Wallace) and had amazing depth, and right now is about 7 deep and wins mostly on the strength of Peja and the coach. Adelman is arguably top 5 coaches in the league.

When you look at those other elite "contenders," Dallas has continually drafted well and kept depth. Indiana and Detroit have done the same. The T-Wolves make moves almost every year. All the other teams who have slipped up recently have their GMs out already. The Maloofs are not poor, and they haven't really ever put pressure to cut payroll. When you look at it, almost everyone on the team is overpaid. The Kings benefit from near-nobody playing at a reasonable salary or someone who outperforms their salary.

I'm willing to listen for an argument regarding Don Nelson, but not before Petrie is gone. Both teams are fairly similar, but Dallas has players for the future (Pavel, Howard, Daniels, Harris) to go along with its bad contracts/aging vets.

Who do the Kings have? They are not set up with any sort of plan/development for the future. It's all today, and that team couldn't win when it was at its best. What makes me believe that minus Divac, a healthier Webber, a younger Peja and Bobby Jax and a few more guys off the bench, this team is built to win a championship?

Later Petrie.


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## Lets_Play_2 (Jan 22, 2004)

Rod Thorn (NJ Nets)

When they're good, they'll be very good. When they're bad, they'll be REALLY BAD!

As previously noted, there's supposed to be only 1 ball on the court during the game, & what you going to do with RJeff, JKidd, & VC all on the floor at the same time?


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>airety</b>!
> I'm willing to listen for an argument regarding Don Nelson, but not before Petrie is gone. Both teams are fairly similar, but Dallas has players for the future (Pavel, Howard, Daniels, Harris) to go along with its bad contracts/aging vets.


The argument in my mind is that SAC got much closer than DAL ever did, although with Shaq moving out East, Dallas now has a legitimate shot of being the Western Conference representative in the Finals.

I still don't think they play enough defense to accomplish this, and is one reason I am voting off Nelson before Petrie (in my eyese).


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

As a Bulls fan, my test for a good GM is whether they were able to retool without sending their team lottery depths. Of the GM's remaining, only Kiki has failed this hurdle. You combine this his Texas-sized ego and his strange firing of Byzdylic, and this becomes a no-brainer. I trace the franchises step backwards primarily to Kiki's choice to enter a new season with a coach he did not support. Always, a bad idea. . . 

Bye, Bye.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>such sweet thunder</b>!
> As a Bulls fan, my test for a good GM is whether they were able to retool without sending their team lottery depths. Of the GM's remaining, only Kiki has failed this hurdle.


Very interesting perspective, and I hadn't thought about judging GMs this way. You've probably swayed me into voting for Kiki next round (assuming he isn't eliminated this round).


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 19 UPDATE

2 Don Nelson (Rhyder, HAWK23)
2 Rod Thorn (PC Load Letter, Lets_Play_2)
1 Kevin O'Connor (T.Shock)
1 Geoff Petrie (airety)
1 Kiki Vandegwhe (such sweet thunder)


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

Interesting choices have been made this round. I'm giving Petrie a pass for now because I think that 02 Kings team WAS the best team in the NBA and got the shaft. And for Webber's many warts, he was a max player or close to it before his knees started giving out on him. He got his payday before the injuries took their toll, so I can't fault Petrie for that.

I'll hop on the Nelson bandwagon. Nelson-run teams always seem to be good, even very good, but always fatally flawed in a way that keeps them from being real contenders for the crown. With all that money at their disposal and an owner willing to do just about anything for the competitive advantage, you'd think they could have broken through at least once. They did come close in 03, but I don't think anyone really thought they were a better team than a fully healthy Sac team or the Spurs team that beat them.

Thorn is next on my radar after Nelson. He did a miraculous thing bringing Kidd in and overhauling the Nets so quickly with Kidd and that great Eddie Griffin draft-day trade, but since then he's done little positive and his team was never a real threat to win anything as much as the beneficiary of a brutally weak conference.


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ViciousFlogging</b>!
> 
> Thorn is next on my radar after Nelson. He did a miraculous thing bringing Kidd in and overhauling the Nets so quickly with Kidd and that great Eddie Griffin draft-day trade, but since then he's done little positive and his team was never a real threat to win anything as much as the beneficiary of a brutally weak conference.


I don't know what to make of Thorn:

I'm not sure he is a "good" Gm, but for every weak move he has had a steal. Trading for Kidd give the franchise respect for the first time in god knows how long. Shipping Griffen for Rjeff and Co. may be one of the most unbalanced trades of the last decade. He made a mistake when he did not resign Martin, but the trade for Vince Carter looks more then Golden. 

Thorn also looks has slid into a solid young coach that players respect. I'm not sure he is diserving of all the credit but good things keep happening in Jersey. If things continue peaches and cream in Brooklyn, we have to give him another few rounds.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

I've been struggling with this one, too.

Petrie WAS the best GM in the league over a several year span. The team still has the 5th best record in the league. He just got Miller last year. I guess he is safe awhile longer.

Thorn drafted MJ  and had zero control over losing KMART. Their young European center looks to be a playert, too. 

Sund didn't do anything much b/f this year except get Allen for Payton. Still pretty impressive this year although the team is starting to cool off.

Nelson, I am not crazy about. But he has added some nice young players to pair with Dirk in the future.


OK - SST convinced me. I vote for Kiki.


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

I don't have time to write much but I gotta vote for Sund. That team is living and dying by the outside shot with no post depth and so-so defense. He hasn't been able to figure out what to do with Radmanovic and I think that guy is both tradeable and underused...I know it looks good now but I think Sund is getting a little lucky right now. Add to this that Ray Allen has been griping about his contract status and....hmmm...

Kiki is next for me and maybe Thorn. I like Petrie...Brad Miller steps right in for Vlade and BJax was brilliant. Who wouldn't have signed Webber to that contract, too, at the time? 

Rick Sund.


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

Don Nelson


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> 
> 
> Thorn drafted MJ  and had zero control over losing KMART. Their young European center looks to be a playert, too.


I would let you reference solely by position if his name wasn't Nenad . Nenad is the type of name like, Barack Obama, and God Shamgod that must be repeated as often as possible. 

Yeah, Nenad Kristic is averaging, 10.8 p on 51% shooting, 5.8 r, and 1.8 b, over the last five. Hardly earth shattering, but he is active and looks like the perfect glue compliment to their larger, scoring backcourt. Kristic also allows Collins to shift over to pf.

The Nets may be well on their way to becoming the NBA flavor of the month. Personal feelings on Carter aside, he has mad skills, and with Kidd along side him he is being put into situations where he can contribute. RJeff has been playing out of his mind and Kidd will only get better as he regains his health. This has the makings of a very solid play-off team.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 19 UPDATE

4 Don Nelson (Rhyder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan)
2 Rod Thorn (PC Load Letter, Lets_Play_2)
2 Kiki Vandegwhe (such sweet thunder, johnston797)
1 Kevin O'Connor (T.Shock)
1 Geoff Petrie (airety)
1 Rick Sund (BealeFarange)


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

Can someone write me a convincing defense of Rick Sund? I mean, Thorn and Petrie and McHale and Nelson head up powerhouse teams that have dominated for half a decade...I don't understand how Sund is in that ballpark at all! 

Maybe there are things I don't know about him?


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BealeFarange</b>!
> Can someone write me a convincing defense of Rick Sund? I mean, Thorn and Petrie and McHale and Nelson head up powerhouse teams that have dominated for half a decade...I don't understand how Sund is in that ballpark at all!
> 
> Maybe there are things I don't know about him?


I think the only defense is the success SEA is having this year. I have been debating between him and Kiki for my next round voting already. And yes, I definately think that SEA is overrated this season, much moreso than PHO.


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## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

DON NELSON ... THE TRIBE HAS SPOKEN!


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rhyder</b>!
> 
> 
> I think the only defense is the success SEA is having this year. I have been debating between him and Kiki for my next round voting already. And yes, I definately think that SEA is overrated this season, much moreso than PHO.


Yep, I voted for Sund a round or two ago. Decided to go with Kiki this last one.

Seattle has basically been .500 for awhile.

Allen for Payton and Mason was nice. Fortson has been more servicable than Booth. The GM deserves some credit for not blowing up the team.

However, they got off to a blazing start 15-3. Now they have gone 7-3. If they slump some more, they will end up with a 6th seed. 

He should be next. :devil:


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## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

woah! upon further review sund DEFINITELY should be the one to go next round now that nelson is gone. i mean seriously, what did he do to improve his ballclub last offseason!? NOTHING! this year's success all hinges on mcmillan and the players. NO WAY should petrie go anytime soon because of what he has done w the kings teams in the past and they are still winning this year. SUND SHOULD DEFINITELY GO SO HE IS MY VOTE FOR THE NEXT ROUND!


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 19 ELIMINATION: Don Nelson

5 Don Nelson (Rhyder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan, jollyoscars)
2 Rod Thorn (PC Load Letter, Lets_Play_2)
2 Kiki Vandegwhe (such sweet thunder, johnston797)
1 Kevin O'Connor (T.Shock)
1 Geoff Petrie (airety)
1 Rick Sund (BealeFarange)


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## Dan Rosenbaum (Jun 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BealeFarange</b>!
> Can someone write me a convincing defense of Rick Sund? I mean, Thorn and Petrie and McHale and Nelson head up powerhouse teams that have dominated for half a decade...I don't understand how Sund is in that ballpark at all!
> 
> Maybe there are things I don't know about him?


Rick Sund took over the Sonics in 2001 and was saddled with Vin Baker's contract and an ownership that due to relatively poor stadium deal was not willing to spend money.

*Key Trades:*

Sund traded Vin Baker and his contract (that Boston will still owe more than $10 million on after this season) for Vitaly Potapenko who comes off the books after this season. That's a great trade for Seattle.

Sund trade a disgruntled Gary Payton and Desmond Mason for Ray Allen, Flip Murray, and a first-round pick that became Luke Ridnour. That's also a great trade for Seattle.

*Key Signings:*

Sund signed Jerome James to a three year deal that probably was not a great signing.

Sund signed Calvin Booth to a bad contract, but salvaged it somewhat by trading for Danny Fortson.

Sund signed Antonio Daniels to a ridiculously cheap three-year deal.

Sund hardballed Rashard Lewis into a very cheap contract for a marginal star in this league. Most teams pay the max to players like Lewis.

*The Draft:*

First round: Radmanovic (12th in 2001), Nick Collison (12th in 2003), Luke Ridnour (14th in 2003), Robert Swift (12th in 2004)

Overall, I would say the first round picks are a little above average for where he was picking.

Second round: Earl Watson (40th in 2001), Bobby Simmons (42nd in 2001), Peter Fehse (49th in 2002), Willie Green (41st in 2003), Andre Emmett (35th in 2004), David Young (41st in 2004)

Throwing in a very productive Reggie Evans and promising Damien Wilkins, I would argue that Sund has a real eye for non first-round picks. However, he has wasted a few of his better second-round picks in trades.

And last but not least, saddled with little flexibility to add players through free agency, Sund has dramatically improved Seattle's roster and has embraced a new approach in adding statistical consultant Dean Oliver as a key component in personnel decisions and game-to-game management. The results are one of the best teams in the NBA and even over the last 10 games (when the Sonics supposedly have been cooling off), there are only three teams with better records than the Sonics' 7-3. Those teams are the Spurs, Suns, and Heat.

Sund has made mistakes, but overall I think he is responsible for a pretty good body of work, especially considering the mandates he works under.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT - GM C*

ROUND 20

Alive
Jerry West-Grizzlies
Pat Riley-Heat
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
Rod Thorn- Nets
Kiki Vandegwhe-Nuggets
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
Rick Sund-Sonics
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns


Already Eliminated
11. ???
12. Don Nelson - Mavs (Rhyder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan, jollyoscars)
13. Kevin McHale - T Wolves (jollyoscars, such sweet thunder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, TomBoerwinkle#1)
14. John Weisbrod - Magic (such sweet thunder, Lets_Play_2, airety, Rhyder, ChiBulls2315)
15. Bernie Bickerstaff - Bobcats (jollyoscars, ChiBulls2315, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan)
16. Ernie Grunfeld - Wizards (Rhyder, Lets_Play_2, TomBoerwinkle#1, Theo!, jollyoscars)
17. Larry Harris - Bucks (ScottMay, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2, HAWK23, T.Shock)
18. Allan Bristow - Hornets (Rhyder, johnston797, PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, krob)
19. JOHN Paxson - Bulls (texan, BealeFarange, TomBoerwinkle#1, PC Load Letter, ScottMay)
20. Mitch Kupchak - Lakers (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, RP McMurphy,
Mikedc, krob)
21. Carrol Dawson - Rockets (PC Load Letter, T.Shock, Laker Freak, johnston797, ChiBulls2315)
22. Billy Knight - Hawks (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange, jollyoscars, T.Shock)
23. Rob Babcock - Raptors (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter, Mikedc, ScottMay)
24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC)


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>such sweet thunder</b>!
> As a Bulls fan, my test for a good GM is whether they were able to retool without sending their team lottery depths. Of the GM's remaining, only Kiki has failed this hurdle. You combine this his Texas-sized ego and his strange firing of Byzdylic, and this becomes a no-brainer. I trace the franchises step backwards primarily to Kiki's choice to enter a new season with a coach he did not support. Always, a bad idea. . .
> 
> Bye, Bye.


In the Chicago tradition of ballot manipulation -- I'll use this vote again for the next ellection.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 20 UPDATE

1 Rick Sund (jollyoscars)
1 Kiki Vandegwhe (such sweet thunder)

(posting this to let jolly know his vote counted)


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## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

like brought up in the past many times this is about what the gm has done his WHOLE career and not just like this season. petrie has done a superb job in his time. 

i also propose a dumars vote to those who dont agree w my sund idea which was inspired by others. dumars has done a great job but heck detroit are our rivals and their fans are a-holes and they got the championship last year so we shouldn't give them any more satisfaction by letting dumars go far! 

im still sticking w sund but if he gets the boot this round then ill go after dumars in a "strategic" move!


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dan Rosenbaum</b>!
> Sund has made mistakes, but overall I think he is responsible for a pretty good body of work, especially considering the mandates he works under.


Not bad. 

Ok, I vote for Kiki (again) but Sund is next.


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## Dan Rosenbaum (Jun 3, 2002)

Personally, my vote at this point is for Jerry West, if we only consider what he has done with the Grizzlies. Yes, he got them into the playoffs last season and Hubie Brown and now Mike Fratello as coaches were good decisions.

But he has saddled that team with a lot of expensive contracts. That team has bought its way from being horrible to becoming a pretty mediocre team. I don't think that is anything to write home about.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jollyoscars</b>!
> like brought up in the past many times this is about what the gm has done his WHOLE career and not just like this season. petrie has done a superb job in his time.
> 
> i also propose a dumars vote to those who dont agree w my sund idea which was inspired by others. dumars has done a great job but heck detroit are our rivals and their fans are a-holes and they got the championship last year so we shouldn't give them any more satisfaction by letting dumars go far!
> ...


The fight aside, I actually like the DET team. They were my most hated rivals growing up watching basketball (yes, even more than the Knicks), mainly because one of my childhood friends was a die-hard Pistons fan.

Yet I found myself rooting for them throughout the playoffs last year. Maybe it's because I like team ball, I don't know, but I can't jump on Dumars as a strategic move with you.

As for this round, I'm between Kiki, O'Conner, Thorn, and West, as Sund is above these guys in my eyes based on Dan's compelling argument.

I can't think of a more compelling argument to eliminate O'Conner or Thorn, outside of that their teams may not make the playoffs this year. Kiki has already accomplished this, so I'm going to have to give him the nod this round.

My vote: Kiki


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 20 UPDATE

3 Kiki Vandegwhe (such sweet thunder, johnston797, Rhyder)
1 Rick Sund (jollyoscars)
1 Jerry West (Dan Rosenbaum)


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## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

kiki haters have you forgotten how far he has brought the denver franchise!? he definitely deserves top 7 imo.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jollyoscars</b>!
> kiki haters have you forgotten how far he has brought the denver franchise!? he definitely deserves top 7 imo.


The same could be said about Paxson if the Bulls make the playoffs this year or next, and I still wouldn't think Paxson would be a top 7 GM... markets aside.

I think he's a solid, albeit arrogant, GM that hasn't hit a tremendous amount of home runs, made a lot of solid moves, although has some questionable moves on the same hand.

I think it's more fair to still give him an "incomplete," but the same thing could be said about a number of GMs on this poll.


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## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

KIKI HAS BROUGHT THE NUGGETS FROM THE WASTELANDS OF THE NBA. HES ACQUIRED K-MART, MELO, BOYKINS, ANDRE MILLER, LEONARD, CAMBY AND MORE!


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## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

Sund


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Kiki Vandegwhe (taken from hoopshype.com) -- I tried to edit out the irrelevant stuff

*SEASON 2004-05*
December 28 2004
Fired head coach Jeff Bzdelik and named Michael Cooper interim head coach.
October 18 2004
Signed forward DerMarr Johnson.
October 5 2004
Re-signed forward Rodney White
July 16 2004
Re-signed center Marcus Camby.
July 15 2004
Traded three future first-round pick to the New Jersey Nets for forward Kenyon Martin.
July 6 2004
Named Michael Cooper assistant coach.
Draft 2004
Traded the draft rights to guard Jameer Nelson to the Orlando Magic for a future first-round pick.

*SEASON 2003-04*
February 20 2004
Signed center Michael Doleac.
September 29 2003
named Scott Brooks, Adrian Dantley and Chip Engelland assistant coaches.
September 13 2003
Signed guard Voshon Lenard.
August 19 2003
Signed guard Jon Barry.
August 18 2003
Signed guard Earl Boykins.
July 31 2003
Signed guard Andre Miller.
July 17 2003
Signed guard Andre Miller to an offer sheet.
Draft 2003
Selected forward Carmelo Anthony (3rd overall pick) and guard Sani Becirovic (46th overall pick).
Acquired the draft rights to center Xue Yuyang from the Dallas Mavericks for a future second-round pick.

*SEASON 2002-03*
February 20 2003
Traded center Mark Blount and forward Mark Bryant to the Boston Celtics for guard Shammond Williams, a second-round draft pick and cash.
December 18 2002
Traded forward James Posey to the Houston Rockets for forwards Mark Bryant and Art Long and a conditional first-round pick.
October 24 2002
Traded guard George McCloud and cash to the Washington Wizards for guard Chris Whitney; waived center Zendon Hamilton.
October 1 2002
Traded forward Don Reid, center Mengke Bateer and a future first-round pick to the Detroit Pistons for forward Rodney White; re-signed center Zendon Hamilton.
August 21 2002
Named Jeff Bzdelik head coach.
August 15 2002
Waived guard Carlos Arroyo.
August 1 2002
Traded a 2004 second-round pick to the Orlando Magic for forward Don Reid.

Draft 2002
Selected forward Nikoloz Tskitishvili (5th overall pick), guard Frank Williams (25th overall pick) and forward Vincent Yarbrough (33rd overall pick).
Traded forward Antonio McDyess and the draft rights to guard Frank Williams for center Marcus Camby, guard Mark Jackson and the draft rights to forward Nenê.


*SEASON 2001-02*

February 21 2002
Traded guards Nick Van Exel, Avery Johnson and Tariq Abdul-Wahad and center Raef LaFrentz to the Dallas Mavericks for guard Tim Hardaway, forwards Juwan Howard and Donnell Harvey and a 2002 first-round pick.
December 26 2001
Announced the resignation of president and coach Dan Issel.
October 22 2001
Traded centers Kevin Willis and Aleksandar Radojevic to the Milwaukee Bucks for center Scott Williams and a future first-round draft pick.
September 25 2001
Traded a future second round draft pick or future considerations for the rights of Kenny Satterfield.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

I'm sticking with my plan and voting for Rod Thorn this time. He's done a lot for the Nets, but they were never really contenders in my eyes, they gutted the team to a large extent (though obviously you can't blame that so much on Thorn), and getting Carter for a good price isn't enough to save them.


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## Lets_Play_2 (Jan 22, 2004)

Jerry West

How many SF does he have on he roster these days anyway?

Besides, if Dan indicates that there's money issues at play there ("....saddled that team with a lot of expensive contracts....."), well, that's a really good reason to "toss Jerry off the train".


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

Jerry West


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## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

wtf is up w the jerry west talk? hes also brought the grizz from the depths of the nba plus hes the GREATEST GM OF ALL TIME and we're supposed to take into account what these gms did in past seasons


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## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

wowza, i didnt realize there were so little guys left so i can see why kiki is being brought up but i still like him over sund, dumars & walsh (cuz u cant show love to the pistons or the pacers) and thorn.


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## Dan Rosenbaum (Jun 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jollyoscars</b>!
> wtf is up w the jerry west talk? hes also brought the grizz from the depths of the nba plus hes the GREATEST GM OF ALL TIME and we're supposed to take into account what these gms did in past seasons


I took into account what he did for the Grizzlies in past seasons, but not what he did in the past for the Lakers. That seems fair since the circumstances of being a GM in Los Angeles and Memphis is so very different. For the Grizzlies he has spent his way out of the depths of the NBA (but only getting his team to NBA mediocrity), something he would not have the luxury of doing if he was a GM for a team like the Sonics, Spurs, or Pistons.

That said, his body of work with the Lakers was fabulous.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 20 UPDATE

3 Kiki Vandegwhe (such sweet thunder, johnston797, Rhyder)
3 Jerry West (Dan Rosenbaum, Lets_Play_2, texan)
2 Rick Sund (jollyoscars, ChiBulls2315)
1 Rod Thorn (ViciousFlogging)


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

I'm also voting for Jerry West, for the reasons that Dan Rosenbaum gave, and because he had a chance to trade for Shaq this summer, but didn't.


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## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dan Rosenbaum</b>!
> 
> I took into account what he did for the Grizzlies in past seasons, but not what he did in the past for the Lakers. That seems fair since the circumstances of being a GM in Los Angeles and Memphis is so very different. For the Grizzlies he has spent his way out of the depths of the NBA (but only getting his team to NBA mediocrity), something he would not have the luxury of doing if he was a GM for a team like the Sonics, Spurs, or Pistons.
> 
> That said, his body of work with the Lakers was fabulous.



I'm close to choosing West as well. There's no reason he had to go out and sign Brian Cardinal at all, much less for 38 million dollars when that roster has plenty of other guys to take his minutes. His first round picks lately have not been impressive at all. And I've read several articles about him wanting to "make his mark" before he leaves by getting a superstar player in there, but since he signed Miller, Battier, and Gasol to extensions, they got BYC issues that will most likely prevent them from being involved in any trade in the near future. And the other players they have aren't going to bring in that that landmark player. He's also likely to lose Swift for nothing next summer as well. 

Great, great job in LA, but do you want this guy for your GM right now?


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## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

Sorry, but Petrie is gonna outlast Logo?

The move for Petrie was denied because in 2002, Sac was arguably the best team in the league. Do we forget whose team won the championship? Again?

Do we forget he won 8 championships with his last team? And he created a "team" where all the players contribute, and the depth is extraordinary. He's also brought in two good coaches, who it seemed the NBA had given up on.

Not for nothing, but who has better prospects for 3 years from now? Memphis, or Sacramento?

You are trying to argue that the Logo doesn't deserve to be top 10. But Kiki, Thorn, Petrie do.

Sorry, no. Just because it doesn't look like I'm going to get enough Petrie support this round, Kiki. A vote for Kiki is a vote to save Logo.


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>airety</b>!
> 
> The move for Petrie was denied because in 2002, Sac was arguably the best team in the league. Do we forget whose team won the championship? Again?


For the record, I made that post about Petrie's 2002 shoulda-been-champs team. And I have no intention of voting Jerry West off any time soon, so I assume this post wasn't necessarily directed at me. I just think Petrie's ability to turn the Kings into a true contender is remarkable. That team plays in freaking Sacramento. I've been there. It's a nice, but very unexciting and (compared to most NBA cities) small place. I'm just really impressed at what he put together. True, it appears that he's not doing enough to keep that team fresh, but they're still dangerous. Getting Miller was a very solid, if pricey, move to keep that team good.

Some unfortunate officiating and Horryisms kept them out of the winners' circle in 02, and Webber's injury robbed them of what might have been their best chance in 03, yet they still lasted 7 games and almost took out Dallas (that Kings team actually played a little defense).

All that said, I'd take out Petrie before West. But not by all that much.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 20 UPDATE

4 Kiki Vandegwhe (such sweet thunder, johnston797, Rhyder, airety)
4 Jerry West (Dan Rosenbaum, Lets_Play_2, texan, RP McMurphy)
2 Rick Sund (jollyoscars, ChiBulls2315)
1 Rod Thorn (ViciousFlogging)


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>airety</b>!
> Sorry, but Petrie is gonna outlast Logo?
> 
> The move for Petrie was denied because in 2002, Sac was arguably the best team in the league. Do we forget whose team won the championship? Again?
> ...


I agree with all points, and while his stint with MEM hasn't been terribly exciting, this is a Survivor game. Who would you rather have as your GM, Kiki or Jerry West?

I think the choice is quite clear at least in my (and some other posters) eyes.

Save West! (vote Kiki)


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

DanRosenbaum, thanks for your passionate and informative defense of Rick Sund. You've spared him from my vote for this round when that Payton trade (including Flip and the pick that turned into Ridnour) came into clearer focus for me. This has become a tremendously difficult decision now and there is no clear choice. 

Kiki is going to have to be the guy. I mean, we have to just accept that he lucked into Carmelo. Yes, he was tanking the season before for a good draft pick so he skilfully played his team into the lottery...and, yes, Voshon Lenard was a great pickup...but what's the deal with Rodney White not playing? Especially with Lenard hurt? What's the deal with an obviously capable Skita not playing...ever? What's the deal with allowing your organization to enter the season with such a negative buzz concerning your lame-duck coach? What about those arrogant interviews and Krausian "organizations win championships" postures? 

I think Kiki is a fantastic Gm, to be honest, and that a lot of my beefs might be immediately remedied by "Kiki's coach," Michael Cooper. If so, well...it was a hard decision to make. I think everyone ahead of Kiki has SUCH a track record of success that it's impossible to eliminate them before him. And, well, Sund is next. No matter what, really.


----------



## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

I really have a hard time keeping Rod Thorn over Jerry West or Kiki, for that matter. Kiki did a great job taking that Nuggets team and turning them into a winner. Granted, they're not nearly as strong this season, even after his signings, but I'm not sure that's his fault. I also don't like the way he treated Bzdelik. Everyone seemed to know he wasn't his guy and would be fired soon, but he took him into the season; big mistake and his credibility has taken a shot because of it. But, still, I think he should survive another couple of rounds.

Jerry West did enough with the Lakers to keep him around for a while. I think as far as a judge of talent, there aren't more than a few who are better than he is.

Everyone left is a very good GM, but someone's gotta go. I vote for Thorn again. Sund is on deck...


----------



## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

Looks like I knocked Kiki out. Sorry, Kiki!

And, as promised, I now vote for Sund. 

As Rhyder put it in perspective, this is a survivor game and I'd rather have the logo on my side.


----------



## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

for the next round, i vote jerry west


----------



## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

i vote dumars because boo pistons and their horrid fans. its a strategic move and ive been kinda sold on sund a little.


----------



## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

i need 4 others to make an alliance w me to vote off dumars this round and then walsh next round. we must take out our rivals! did i mention i'm a HUGE survivor buff? hehe


----------



## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

I have also been sold on Sund. That's why he's one of the ten best Gm's in basketball. Now we're down to "Who's the Best". Sund is up for me because, good as he is, he's not the best. I'm more sure of that than I am that West, for example, is not the best.


----------



## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

okayyy ill gang up on kiki

he has my vote


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 20 ELIMINATION: Kiki Vandegwhe

5 Kiki Vandegwhe (such sweet thunder, johnston797, Rhyder, airety, BealeFarange)
4 Jerry West (Dan Rosenbaum, Lets_Play_2, texan, RP McMurphy)
2 Rick Sund (jollyoscars, ChiBulls2315)
1 Rod Thorn (ViciousFlogging)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT -*

ROUND 21

Alive
Jerry West-Grizzlies
Pat Riley-Heat
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
Rod Thorn- Nets
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
Rick Sund-Sonics
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns


Already Eliminated
10. ???
11. Kiki Vandegwhe - Nuggets (such sweet thunder, johnston797, Rhyder, airety, BealeFarange)
12. Don Nelson - Mavs (Rhyder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan, jollyoscars)
13. Kevin McHale - T Wolves (jollyoscars, such sweet thunder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, TomBoerwinkle#1)
14. John Weisbrod - Magic (such sweet thunder, Lets_Play_2, airety, Rhyder, ChiBulls2315)
15. Bernie Bickerstaff - Bobcats (jollyoscars, ChiBulls2315, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan)
16. Ernie Grunfeld - Wizards (Rhyder, Lets_Play_2, TomBoerwinkle#1, Theo!, jollyoscars)
17. Larry Harris - Bucks (ScottMay, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2, HAWK23, T.Shock)
18. Allan Bristow - Hornets (Rhyder, johnston797, PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, krob)
19. JOHN Paxson - Bulls (texan, BealeFarange, TomBoerwinkle#1, PC Load Letter, ScottMay)
20. Mitch Kupchak - Lakers (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, RP McMurphy,
Mikedc, krob)
21. Carrol Dawson - Rockets (PC Load Letter, T.Shock, Laker Freak, johnston797, ChiBulls2315)
22. Billy Knight - Hawks (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange, jollyoscars, T.Shock)
23. Rob Babcock - Raptors (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter, Mikedc, ScottMay)
24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC) [/QUOTE]


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 21 UPDATE

1 Rod Thorn (PC Load Letter)
1 Rick Sund (BealeFarange)
1 Jerry West (texan)
1 Joe Dumars (jollyoscars)

These were the 4 votes cast after Beale's elimination vote for Kiki in Round 20.

I just wanted to let everyone know that I counted them.


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

I'm sticking with Thorn. Just can't justify bagging another GM before him, even though he's solid.


----------



## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

Rick Sund


----------



## X-Factor (Aug 24, 2004)

Rod Thorn. I know he got Vince, but it's wins that count in this league, and this team ain't cutting it.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Bryan Colangelo deserves some sort of mention here, as he's been flying under the radar due to this year's success.

Remember he traded Kidd for Marbury, then traded Marbury for McDyess, both trades that proved to be downgrades at their respective times.

He also traded Nash and Mark Bryant for Luc Longley in 98-99.

His drafting has been pretty solid overall, looking at year's past (especially in recent years--Amare & Marion). While this year's offseason was pretty incredible for them, it came at the expense of the 7th pick (Deng)

All that said, I'm going to give him a bye this round (although I think I talked myself into voting on him once Thorn is out)

My vote for this round: Rod Thorn


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

I'll vote Sund; West and Thorn trailing closely.


----------



## Lets_Play_2 (Jan 22, 2004)

Rod Thorn

Let's see: He trades KMart for all those picks because he doesn't want to spring for the dollars, and then turns around & makes a trade for VC.

Interesting......:sour: 

Sund/West - your time is quickly approaching...

Just as a question, why are we giving *Bryan* Colangelo as pass. I've been trying to figure out who really gets credit for the Suns - is it dad (Jerry) or son (Bryan)?


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 21 ELIMINATION: Rod Thorn

5 Rod Thorn (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, Minnesota Magician, Rhyder, Lets_Play_2)
3 Rick Sund (BealeFarange, Theo!, such sweet thunder)
1 Jerry West (texan)
1 Joe Dumars (jollyoscars)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: O*

ROUND 22

Alive
Jerry West-Grizzlies
Pat Riley-Heat
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
Rick Sund-Sonics
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns


Already Eliminated
9. ???
10. Rod Thorn- Nets (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, Minnesota Magician, Rhyder, Lets_Play_2)
11. Kiki Vandegwhe - Nuggets (such sweet thunder, johnston797, Rhyder, airety, BealeFarange)
12. Don Nelson - Mavs (Rhyder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan, jollyoscars)
13. Kevin McHale - T Wolves (jollyoscars, such sweet thunder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, TomBoerwinkle#1)
14. John Weisbrod - Magic (such sweet thunder, Lets_Play_2, airety, Rhyder, ChiBulls2315)
15. Bernie Bickerstaff - Bobcats (jollyoscars, ChiBulls2315, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan)
16. Ernie Grunfeld - Wizards (Rhyder, Lets_Play_2, TomBoerwinkle#1, Theo!, jollyoscars)
17. Larry Harris - Bucks (ScottMay, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2, HAWK23, T.Shock)
18. Allan Bristow - Hornets (Rhyder, johnston797, PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, krob)
19. JOHN Paxson - Bulls (texan, BealeFarange, TomBoerwinkle#1, PC Load Letter, ScottMay)
20. Mitch Kupchak - Lakers (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, RP McMurphy,
Mikedc, krob)
21. Carrol Dawson - Rockets (PC Load Letter, T.Shock, Laker Freak, johnston797, ChiBulls2315)
22. Billy Knight - Hawks (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange, jollyoscars, T.Shock)
23. Rob Babcock - Raptors (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter, Mikedc, ScottMay)
24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rhyder</b>!
> Bryan Colangelo deserves some sort of mention here, as he's been flying under the radar due to this year's success.
> 
> Remember he traded Kidd for Marbury, then traded Marbury for McDyess, both trades that proved to be downgrades at their respective times.
> ...


As I mentioned in my last voting post:

Bryan Colangelo


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

have to go with rick sund- SEA

other than this year's success and 1996 when have they been any good?


----------



## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ViciousFlogging</b>!
> All that said, I'd take out Petrie before West. But not by all that much.


It wasn't a "so and so said" sort of thing, moreso as in "That argument seems to be pretty well accepted... but consider this."

Definitely wasn't intended as anything personal, though I don't think I was insulting  Maybe towards Petrie!


----------



## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

Later Rick Sund.


----------



## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>airety</b>!
> Later Rick Sund.


Also in the great Chicago tradition, I'll reuse somone elses ballot.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 22 UPDATE

3 Rick Sund (HAWK23, airety, such sweet thunder)
1 Bryan Colangelo (Rhyder)


----------



## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

Don't worry Rhyder, I'll support you with Colangelo soon. Especially if you'll help me get Petrie out soon 

Can we see some odds to win? I'm taking R.C. Buford!


----------



## Dan Rosenbaum (Jun 3, 2002)

Again I vote for Jerry West for his work with the Grizzlies. Anyone else with West's body of work in Memphis would have been eliminated several rounds ago.

But it is fitting that Sund might get eliminated on a night that the "fluky" Sonics who won't be able to win in the playoffs because they will get eaten up by teams with a post presence now are 3-0 against Miami and San Antonio - the two teams with the best post players in the league. And 2 of those 3 wins are on the road.

Oh, and by the way, that Sonics team that won't be able to win against good teams in the playoffs is now 9-1 against top ten teams in the league.

Yes, I think building a championship contender without spending any money is pretty damn good work.

It sure beats building a mediocre team with a nearly unlimited checkbook.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>airety</b>!
> Don't worry Rhyder, I'll support you with Colangelo soon. Especially if you'll help me get Petrie out soon
> 
> Can we see some odds to win? I'm taking R.C. Buford!


I looked back at Petrie's history, and it just reinforced how good he has done.

The C-Webb injuries and falling out of the finals due to Kobe/Shaq when you probably had the better team anyway looks like their post years are even worse, because they got so close and now are falling.


----------



## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

geoff petrie


----------



## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

West


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 22 UPDATE

3 Rick Sund (HAWK23, airety, such sweet thunder)
2 Jerry West (Dan Rosenbaum, ChiBulls2315)
1 Bryan Colangelo (Rhyder)
1 Geoff Petrie (texan)


----------



## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

I'm not exactly going to agree with Mr. Rosenbaum, but his analysis did make me look at Sund's draft history and it's pretty strong, at least as far as his talent evaluation. A lot of his picks have moved on to other teams and had succuss (Earl Watson, Bobby Simmons, Willie Green). Sund needs to stay around a couple round longer based on that, but there's a handful of guys who have to be ahead of him based on history of team success, if nothing else.

My vote this round goes to Colangelo. He has a juggernaut right now and had a gem in Amare, but again, based on overall team success, he's next to go.


----------



## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

can i change my vote? if so change it to jerry west


----------



## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

I'm voting for Sund, again. 

Rosenbaum put forth a valiant argument I agree with. Sund is a very good GM. One of the best. However, the others are still better in my opinion.


Edit: Oh, and I'm glad Rod Thorn was eliminated before Sund. I was thinking about that on the train home and I do think Sund has done a better job with less money and more future stability.


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Sund


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 22 ELIMINATION: Rick Sund

5 Rick Sund (HAWK23, airety, such sweet thunder, BealeFarange, johnston797)
2 Jerry West (Dan Rosenbaum, ChiBulls2315)
2 Bryan Colangelo (Rhyder, PC Load Letter)
1 Geoff Petrie (texan)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R*

ROUND 23

Alive
Jerry West-Grizzlies
Pat Riley-Heat
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns


Already Eliminated
8. ???
9. Rick Sund - Sonics (HAWK23, airety, such sweet thunder, BealeFarange, johnston797)
10. Rod Thorn- Nets (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, Minnesota Magician, Rhyder, Lets_Play_2)
11. Kiki Vandegwhe - Nuggets (such sweet thunder, johnston797, Rhyder, airety, BealeFarange)
12. Don Nelson - Mavs (Rhyder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan, jollyoscars)
13. Kevin McHale - T Wolves (jollyoscars, such sweet thunder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, TomBoerwinkle#1)
14. John Weisbrod - Magic (such sweet thunder, Lets_Play_2, airety, Rhyder, ChiBulls2315)
15. Bernie Bickerstaff - Bobcats (jollyoscars, ChiBulls2315, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan)
16. Ernie Grunfeld - Wizards (Rhyder, Lets_Play_2, TomBoerwinkle#1, Theo!, jollyoscars)
17. Larry Harris - Bucks (ScottMay, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2, HAWK23, T.Shock)
18. Allan Bristow - Hornets (Rhyder, johnston797, PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, krob)
19. JOHN Paxson - Bulls (texan, BealeFarange, TomBoerwinkle#1, PC Load Letter, ScottMay)
20. Mitch Kupchak - Lakers (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, RP McMurphy,
Mikedc, krob)
21. Carrol Dawson - Rockets (PC Load Letter, T.Shock, Laker Freak, johnston797, ChiBulls2315)
22. Billy Knight - Hawks (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange, jollyoscars, T.Shock)
23. Rob Babcock - Raptors (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter, Mikedc, ScottMay)
24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

I'm voting for:

Bryan Colangelo

For reasons already mentioned.


----------



## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

Jerrrrrry.


----------



## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

Colangelo time.


----------



## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

O'Connor again.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

Kevin O'conner....

I wouldn't want anyone but RC Buford drafting for me if I was picking 20 or worse in the draft other than this guy... but it just seems like the man isn't fully open minded about all players... is it just me or do you think if it was up to him he would take John Stockton over Michael Jordan if the 2 of them were in the same draft and both were available...


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 23 UPDATE

2 Bryan Colangelo (Rhyder, PC Load Letter)
2 Kevin O'Connor (T.Shock, HAWK23)
1 Jerry West (ChiBulls2315)


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Riley - Yea, he has been good the last 1.5 years but was brutal before that.


----------



## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

Jerry West. 

Your job is a lot easier when you're trying to get NBA players to come to LA. Yeah, yeah...tell that to Elgin Baylor but Jerry West had MONEY to work with as well. Judging by his Memphis performance to date--which has been very good but not great--and I think it's clear that West should be the next to go. 

Phoenix's starting five is just too ridiculous to vote for Colangelo...and Barbosa off the bench is a nice move. Oh, and they're going to get the Bulls lottery pick this year in a decidedly stronger draft than last year's. (edit: That was the consensus; I'm sure they'd have taken deng had they known he'd be there...) 

Utah works wonders (Jerry Sloan's work?) in a city where no player wants to play. Their drafts have been pretty good and their trades/signings have been creative and effective. 

Buford...well, yeah. Why doesn't this guy get any press? Does anyone know anything about him personally? Has their ever been a "he's-a-master" article about him on Insider? No? There should be. 

Walsh brilliantly and seamlessly transformed an old title-contender into a young title-contender. And traded for JO. 'Nuff said. 

If anyone out there is better at managing cap and balancing old/new than Joe Dumars, I don't know who it is. I know Detroit is wobbling right now and that Milicic doesn't look so hot as of yet but his moves as a GM with the knowledge he's had at the time of his decisions have been flawless.

Petrie drafts well (I think Kevin Martin was a wonderful pick for them) and has built a solid, solid team in Sacremento...this place was so dead for so long and he's resuscitated the entire city with a marketable, exciting, and stable team. I mean, replacing Vlade Divac with Brad Miller is poetry. Leaving Wallace in the expansion draft might have been a mistake and Chris Webber's contract is large...but he was unquestionably a max player when he signed it. Hell, he still unquestionably produces like a max player in the regular season and, if his knee isn't falling of, he's been a decent postseason player. JWill for Bibby was wonderful, Stojakovic is fantastic...Adleman over Gary St. Jean? Seriously, what does everyone have against Petrie?

And Riles traded for Shaquille O'Neal. There.


----------



## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

Jerry West.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RP McMurphy</b>!
> Jerry West.


Logo's time to go-go.


BTW: nice analysis, Beale.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 23 UPDATE

4 Jerry West (ChiBulls2315, BealeFarange, RP McMurphy, TomBoerwinkle#1)
2 Bryan Colangelo (Rhyder, PC Load Letter)
2 Kevin O'Connor (T.Shock, HAWK23)
1 Pat Riley (johnston797)


----------



## Lets_Play_2 (Jan 22, 2004)

Jerry West

Your time has come..... and gone.

Say "GoodBye"


----------



## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

walsh for the next round


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

I'm actually going to say Petrie for the next round. He has had so much talent on those Kings teams, and kudos on putting together an excellent team, but they never did get past L.A.

He sealed the deal with CWebb when he had the chance, but its pretty clear that Peja is going to bolt on him.

And while they have another nice record this year, I don't think they have it in them to make a serious run at the western conference championship this year.

So, probably not the popular choice at this time, but I'm going with Petrie. A few years ago, he was considered the Golden Boy GM, but I think his star has faded.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 23 ELIMINATION: Jerry West

5 Jerry West (ChiBulls2315, BealeFarange, RP McMurphy, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2)
2 Bryan Colangelo (Rhyder, PC Load Letter)
2 Kevin O'Connor (T.Shock, HAWK23)
1 Pat Riley (johnston797)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R*

ROUND 24

Alive
Pat Riley-Heat
Kevin O Connor-Jazz
Geoff Petrie-Kings
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns


Already Eliminated
7. ???
8. Jerry West - Grizzlies (ChiBulls2315, BealeFarange, RP McMurphy, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2)
9. Rick Sund - Sonics (HAWK23, airety, such sweet thunder, BealeFarange, johnston797)
10. Rod Thorn- Nets (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, Minnesota Magician, Rhyder, Lets_Play_2)
11. Kiki Vandegwhe - Nuggets (such sweet thunder, johnston797, Rhyder, airety, BealeFarange)
12. Don Nelson - Mavs (Rhyder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan, jollyoscars)
13. Kevin McHale - T Wolves (jollyoscars, such sweet thunder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, TomBoerwinkle#1)
14. John Weisbrod - Magic (such sweet thunder, Lets_Play_2, airety, Rhyder, ChiBulls2315)
15. Bernie Bickerstaff - Bobcats (jollyoscars, ChiBulls2315, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan)
16. Ernie Grunfeld - Wizards (Rhyder, Lets_Play_2, TomBoerwinkle#1, Theo!, jollyoscars)
17. Larry Harris - Bucks (ScottMay, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2, HAWK23, T.Shock)
18. Allan Bristow - Hornets (Rhyder, johnston797, PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, krob)
19. JOHN Paxson - Bulls (texan, BealeFarange, TomBoerwinkle#1, PC Load Letter, ScottMay)
20. Mitch Kupchak - Lakers (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, RP McMurphy,
Mikedc, krob)
21. Carrol Dawson - Rockets (PC Load Letter, T.Shock, Laker Freak, johnston797, ChiBulls2315)
22. Billy Knight - Hawks (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange, jollyoscars, T.Shock)
23. Rob Babcock - Raptors (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter, Mikedc, ScottMay)
24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC)


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

O CONNOR!!!!!


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 24 UPDATE

1 Kevin O'Connor (HAWK23)
1 Donnie Walsh (jollyoscars)
1 Geoff Petrie (TomBoerwinkle#1)


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

I'll give O'Connor the boot as well. Looks like Kirilenko is the lynchpin of the entire team, even more than Jerry Sloan. I think he does a pretty freaking good job maintaining a competitive team in Utah, but I can't really pull the trigger on anyone else at this point.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

I'm going with Bryan Coangelo

1. The Kidd for Marbury trade
2. Marbury for McDyess trade
3. He also traded what ended up being Nash and Mark Bryant for Luc Longley in 98-99

Not a very stellar draft history pre-Marion
This offseason was great, but it was only the offseason moves that brought this team success. Definately a solid GM, but too many poor moves earlier in his career to make him last.

Walsh is my next target after Coangelo I think solely for trading Brad Miller for Scott Pollard. I don't see any of the other GMs making a move as bad as these I have listed during their stints.

So if any of you on the Walsh bandwagon want me to side, jump with me and PC on the Coangelo bandwagon first


----------



## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

Oconner


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

For those of you voting (or thinking about voting) on O'Connor

*SEASON 2004-05*
October 29 2004
Signed forward Andrei Kirilenko to a contract extension.
July 29 2004
Signed forward Carlos Boozer.
July 27 2004
Signed forward Mehmet Okur.
July 23 2004
Re-signed center Jarron Collins.
July 19 2004
Re-signed guard Gordan Giricek.
July 14 2004
Signed guard Carlos Arroyo and signed forwards Carlos Boozer and Mehmet Okur to offer sheets.

Draft 2004
Selected forward Kris Humphries (14th overall pick), guard Kirk Snyder (16th overall pick) and center Pavel Podkolzin (21st overall pick).
Traded the draft rights to center Pavel Podkolzin to the Dallas Mavericks for a 2005 first-round pick.

*SEASON 2003-04*
February 19 2004
Traded guard DeShawn Stevenson and a conditional second-round pick to the Orlando Magic for guard Gordan Giricek; traded forward Keon Clark and center Ben Handlogten to the Phoenix Suns for forward Tom Gugliotta, two conditional first-round picks, a 2005 second-round pick and cash.
October 3 2003
Released forward Glen Rice.
September 30 2003
Traded forward John Amaechi, a 2004 second-round pick and a conditional second-round pick to the Houston Rockets for forward Glen Rice, a first-round pick and additional draft considerations.
September 29 2003
Signed guard Raja Bell.
August 5 2003
Traded a future second-round draft pick to the Sacramento Kings for forward Keon Clark and two future second-round picks.
July 30 2003
Re-signed guard Carlos Arroyo.
July 16 2003
Signed guard Corey Maggette to an offer sheet.

Draft 2003
Selected guards Aleksandar Pavlovic (19th overall pick) and Maurice Williams (47th overall pick).

*SEASON 2002-03*
May 13 2003
Signed head coach Jerry Sloan to a contract extension through 2005-06.
October 30 2002
Exercised their option on guard DeShawn Stevenson through 2003-04.
August 15 2002
Signed forward Matt Harpring.
July 25 2002
Signed guard Calbert Cheaney.
July 12 2002
Signed center Curtis Borchardt to a three-year contract.

Draft 2002
Selected forward Ryan Humphrey (19th overall pick) and center Jamal Sampson (47th overall pick).
Traded the draft rights to forward Ryan Humphrey and center Jamal Sampson to the Orlando Magic for the draft rights to center Curtis Borchardt.

*SEASON 2001-02*
September 27 2001
Re-signed free agent guard John Stockton.

Draft 2001
Selected guard Raul Lopez (24th overall pick) and center Jarron Collins (53rd overall pick).

*SEASON 2000-01*
August 16 2000
Traded guard Howard Eisley to the Dallas Mavericks, forward Adam Keefe to the Golden State Warriors and a first-round pick to the Boston Celtics for forward Donyell Marshall from the Golden State Warriors and center Bruno Sundov from the Dallas Mavericks.
August 11 2000
Agreed to two-year contracts with free agent forward Danny Manning, who had been with the Milwaukee Bucks, and free agent guard John Crotty, who had been with the Detroit Pistons.
August 8 2000
Re-signed guard Jacque Vaughn.

Draft 2000
Selected guard DeShawn Stevenson (23rd overall pick) and forward Kaniel Dickens (50th overall pick).
June 23 2000
Traded a first-round pick, 26th overall, in 2000 to the Denver Nuggets for a first-round pick in 2001.

*SEASON 1999-00*
September 30 1999
Re-signed free agent guard John Stockton to a two-year contract; re-signed free agent guard Jeff Hornacek to a one-year contract.
August 27 1999
Signed free agent center Olden Polynice.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

I think O'Connor is probably deserving of at least top 5 if not higher.

He has been on the winning side of every trade he has made. If you notice some of the offer sheet signings, it's most always with a quality breakout type player. The guy certainly has an eye for talent.

The only thing he really is missing is his draft quality, and that certainly hasn't been too poor either.

I think people are underestimating what it takes to even get players to consider going to Utah to play, much less actually getting the guys to sign offer sheets.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

I agree with you, Rhyder.

O'Connor, bad: Had great teams, never won a ring.

BUT --

O'Connor, good: Lost not one, but 2 Top 50 players, and still fields a competitive club. No Bulls/Celtics tanking. He deserves another round.


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rhyder</b>!
> For those of you voting (or thinking about voting) on O'Connor


So he didn't draft AK47 in the 1999 draft?

OK, O'Connor has my vote.


----------



## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

I'm agreeing with Rhyder and TB on O'Connor. Much like Buford, you hear virtually nothing about him but he's had a good team every season. I also have a little more respect for him just for being able to do what the Bulls couldn't; stay respectable while rebuilding.

I'm voting for Colangelo yet again.


----------



## Lets_Play_2 (Jan 22, 2004)

I'm with Tom on this one:

Geoff Petrie

The Kings made their run & failed. Where do they go from there except down?

Not only that, but it seems like his current plan is to hope & pray that other Western conference clubs fail & do worse than the Kings are doing.

Now there's a slogan: "We'll do better if the other teams do worse".


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 24 UPDATE

4 Kevin O'Connor (HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, ChiBulls2315, johnston797)
2 Bryan Coangelo (Rhyder, PC Load Letter)
2 Geoff Petrie (TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2)
1 Donnie Walsh (jollyoscars)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> So he didn't draft AK47 in the 1999 draft?


That I'm not sure of. It isn't listed on hoopshype.com, but he did sign Polynice August 27, 1999, so he may have been around at draft time.


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rhyder</b>!
> 
> 
> That I'm not sure of. It isn't listed on hoopshype.com, but he did sign Polynice August 27, 1999, so he may have been around at draft time.


Looks like he was put in charge *AFTER* the draft. Hoopshype has Jim Paxson in charge for 5 years as well but includes the 1999 draft.


----------



## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

Coangelo. 

For the very reason that it's hard to fault O'Conner due for much due to his having to attract free agents to Utah, Coangelo has made some mediocre-to-bad drafts and trades bailed out by the incredible ease with which players (QRich, Nash, D'antoni) are attracted to the veritable desert paradise that is Phoenix. I mean, the Suns really have this image to me of an all-fun all-the-time gang where Utah just...well...doesn't.

If you look at the things they've had control over (drafts, trades, some free agent GAMBLES...) I think you'll find that Coangelo comes up shorter than the rest. Or, at least, I did.


----------



## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

O'Conner, so he's gone


----------



## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

Oooooooooooooooh, Hustle!!!

:upset:


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 24 ELIMINATION: Kevin O'Connor

5 Kevin O'Connor (HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, ChiBulls2315, johnston797, Hustle)
3 Bryan Coangelo (Rhyder, PC Load Letter, BealeFarange)
2 Geoff Petrie (TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2)
1 Donnie Walsh (jollyoscars)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R*

ROUND 25

Alive
Pat Riley-Heat
Geoff Petrie-Kings
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
R.C. Buford-Spurs
Bryan Colangelo-Suns


Already Eliminated
6. ???
7. Kevin O Connor - Jazz (HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, ChiBulls2315, johnston797, Hustle)
8. Jerry West - Grizzlies (ChiBulls2315, BealeFarange, RP McMurphy, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2)
9. Rick Sund - Sonics (HAWK23, airety, such sweet thunder, BealeFarange, johnston797)
10. Rod Thorn- Nets (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, Minnesota Magician, Rhyder, Lets_Play_2)
11. Kiki Vandegwhe - Nuggets (such sweet thunder, johnston797, Rhyder, airety, BealeFarange)
12. Don Nelson - Mavs (Rhyder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan, jollyoscars)
13. Kevin McHale - T Wolves (jollyoscars, such sweet thunder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, TomBoerwinkle#1)
14. John Weisbrod - Magic (such sweet thunder, Lets_Play_2, airety, Rhyder, ChiBulls2315)
15. Bernie Bickerstaff - Bobcats (jollyoscars, ChiBulls2315, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan)
16. Ernie Grunfeld - Wizards (Rhyder, Lets_Play_2, TomBoerwinkle#1, Theo!, jollyoscars)
17. Larry Harris - Bucks (ScottMay, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2, HAWK23, T.Shock)
18. Allan Bristow - Hornets (Rhyder, johnston797, PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, krob)
19. JOHN Paxson - Bulls (texan, BealeFarange, TomBoerwinkle#1, PC Load Letter, ScottMay)
20. Mitch Kupchak - Lakers (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, RP McMurphy,
Mikedc, krob)
21. Carrol Dawson - Rockets (PC Load Letter, T.Shock, Laker Freak, johnston797, ChiBulls2315)
22. Billy Knight - Hawks (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange, jollyoscars, T.Shock)
23. Rob Babcock - Raptors (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter, Mikedc, ScottMay)
24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Rhyder</b>!
> I'm going with Bryan Coangelo
> 
> 1. The Kidd for Marbury trade
> ...


I will continue to vote Bryan Coangelo until he is gone.

I finally have decided on my top 6 (the way I want to see them finish)
1. Joe Dumars-Pistons
2. Geoff Petrie-Kings
3. Pat Riley-Heat
4. R.C. Buford-Spurs
5. Donnie Walsh-Pacers
6. Bryan Colangelo-Suns


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

I'm going with Colangelo as well. The Suns are rolling and that has gotten him this far, but his body of work up to this offseason wasn't anything too incredibly brilliant. Making it this far pretty much means that he's merely the "least-great" GM, and not a bad one by any stretch.


----------



## Lets_Play_2 (Jan 22, 2004)

Geoff Petrie and Bryan Colangelo don't make my Final Four.

Time for Bryan Colangelo to take his seat on the bench.


----------



## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

Colangelo.


----------



## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

I once again say Petrie. He has had one of the strongest rosters for the past several years, and has failed to capitalize.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

Colangelo-- GONE


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 25 ELIMINATION: Bryan Colangelo

5 Bryan Colangelo (Rhyder, ViciousFlogging, Lets_Play_2, BealeFarange, HAWK23)
1 Geoff Petrie (TomBoerwinkle#1)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R*

ROUND 26

Alive
Pat Riley-Heat
Geoff Petrie-Kings
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
R.C. Buford-Spurs

Already Eliminated
5. ???
6. Bryan Colangelo - Suns (Rhyder, ViciousFlogging, Lets_Play_2, BealeFarange, HAWK23)
7. Kevin O Connor - Jazz (HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, ChiBulls2315, johnston797, Hustle)
8. Jerry West - Grizzlies (ChiBulls2315, BealeFarange, RP McMurphy, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2)
9. Rick Sund - Sonics (HAWK23, airety, such sweet thunder, BealeFarange, johnston797)
10. Rod Thorn- Nets (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, Minnesota Magician, Rhyder, Lets_Play_2)
11. Kiki Vandegwhe - Nuggets (such sweet thunder, johnston797, Rhyder, airety, BealeFarange)
12. Don Nelson - Mavs (Rhyder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan, jollyoscars)
13. Kevin McHale - T Wolves (jollyoscars, such sweet thunder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, TomBoerwinkle#1)
14. John Weisbrod - Magic (such sweet thunder, Lets_Play_2, airety, Rhyder, ChiBulls2315)
15. Bernie Bickerstaff - Bobcats (jollyoscars, ChiBulls2315, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan)
16. Ernie Grunfeld - Wizards (Rhyder, Lets_Play_2, TomBoerwinkle#1, Theo!, jollyoscars)
17. Larry Harris - Bucks (ScottMay, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2, HAWK23, T.Shock)
18. Allan Bristow - Hornets (Rhyder, johnston797, PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, krob)
19. JOHN Paxson - Bulls (texan, BealeFarange, TomBoerwinkle#1, PC Load Letter, ScottMay)
20. Mitch Kupchak - Lakers (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, RP McMurphy,
Mikedc, krob)
21. Carrol Dawson - Rockets (PC Load Letter, T.Shock, Laker Freak, johnston797, ChiBulls2315)
22. Billy Knight - Hawks (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange, jollyoscars, T.Shock)
23. Rob Babcock - Raptors (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter, Mikedc, ScottMay)
24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC) [/QUOTE]


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

Petrie- SAC


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Donnie Walsh

Going to have to go with him for the Brad Miller for Scott Pollard trade.


----------



## Lets_Play_2 (Jan 22, 2004)

Geoff Petrie


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Riley - Gave huge contracts to Eddie Jones and Brian Grant.


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

Petrie for letting that Sac team erode. It's understandable given how close they were and the thought that injuries held them back a couple times, and the Miller signing was really smart. But nonetheless, that team isn't really a true contender anymore, its depth is gone (especially now htat BJax is out indefinitely) and there's a lot of huge contracts to contend with going forward.

Didn't Walsh have to trade Miller away to save money? That was the impression I had, but I could be wrong. Indiana is a small market that would be hit pretty hard by the luxury tax.


----------



## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

Riley.

A little stubborn, a little arrogant, a little caught up in the old guard. Grant, Jones, Shaq...not that Shaq isn't a solid move but...it's symptomatic of a larger problem with Riles. He's the fifth best GM in the league because he usually happens to be RIGHT on his relatively conservative talent evals, though.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 26 UPDATE

3 Geoff Petrie (HAWK23, Lets_Play_2, ViciousFlogging)
2 Pat Riley (johnston797, BealeFarange)
1 Donnie Walsh (Rhyder)


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ViciousFlogging</b>!
> 
> Didn't Walsh have to trade Miller away to save money? That was the impression I had, but I could be wrong. Indiana is a small market that would be hit pretty hard by the luxury tax.


Walsh could have kept Miller and traded away Harrington. He also re-upped Foster after knowing that he would have an issue with Miller the next summer.


----------



## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

I'm going to switch gears RC Buford. He already has Tim Duncan on the team. (Hoopshype doesn't have him since when Duncan was drafted, and even if, you don't get "credit" for draft a no brainer with the #1 pick) And obviously he's not a nice job surrounding him with guys and he's a solid GM since he's lasted this long. He got Manu, Barry, Horry,Udrah, Bowen, Kerr, Devin Brown, all solid moves. But I'm going with him b/c he invested 84 million dollars in Malik Rose and Rasho over a 2 year period. And while the Spurs got a nice supporting cast, they never hit the jackpot with the max caproom they had the past couple of seasons when they went after higher profile guys. 

I noticed Petrie is still the guy who traded an old SG in Richmond for a young PF named Webber. And when it looked like it would be tough for the Kings to make a significant move 2 summers ago to keep up with everyone, with their roster, he traded Turkoglu and Pollard for Brad Miller. Very nice. Signed Divac, B. Jackson, and Adelman as coach. Picked Corliss 13th a while ago, Peja 14th ( :yes: ) G. Wallace 25th, Turkoglu 16th, JWill 7th and traded Corliss for Christie and Jwill for Bibby later on, both good moves for them. Pretty impressive.


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

.


----------



## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BealeFarange</b>!
> Riley.
> 
> A little stubborn, a little arrogant, a little caught up in the old guard. Grant, Jones, Shaq...not that Shaq isn't a solid move but...it's symptomatic of a larger problem with Riles. He's the fifth best GM in the league because he usually happens to be RIGHT on his relatively conservative talent evals, though.



I forgot about the nasty contracts Jones and Grant were given. :dead:


----------



## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

Petrie! Go away!

Look at R.C Buford. Great GM. Parker, Ginobili were STEALS. That Stephen Jackson signing was huge. The team is so well balanced, and the depth is there, that even with those "big contracts" that Malik Rose and Rasho have, it doesn't matter. This team isn't declining. 

How many teams could have used Tony Parker? Just about every damn team in the draft. Ginobili? Oh... if we only had Ginobili.

Plus, I like Sato.


----------



## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>airety</b>!
> Petrie! Go away!
> 
> Look at R.C Buford. Great GM. Parker, Ginobili were STEALS. That Stephen Jackson signing was huge. The team is so well balanced, and the depth is there, that even with those "big contracts" that Malik Rose and Rasho have, it doesn't matter. This team isn't declining.
> ...



These guys are all great GMs. It's a tough choice all around.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 26 UPDATE

4 Geoff Petrie (HAWK23, Lets_Play_2, ViciousFlogging, airety)
2 Pat Riley (johnston797, BealeFarange)
1 Donnie Walsh (Rhyder)
1 RC Buford (ChiBulls2315)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

EDIT: Double Post


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ChiBulls2315</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> These guys are all great GMs. It's a tough choice all around.


I agree, but I'm sticking to my ranking:
1. Dumars
2. Petrie
3. Riley
4. Buford
5. Walsh

So I'll hop on the RC train with you once Walsh is gone.

(I would have ranked O'Connor 3rd and Sund 4th, and moved Riley down to 5th, Buford 6th, & West 7th if not for the game)


----------



## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

petrie


----------



## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

& ill vote for walsh for next round


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 26 ELIMINATION

5 Geoff Petrie (HAWK23, Lets_Play_2, ViciousFlogging, airety, jollyoscars)
2 Pat Riley (johnston797, BealeFarange)
1 Donnie Walsh (Rhyder)
1 RC Buford (ChiBulls2315)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R*

ROUND 27

Alive
Pat Riley-Heat
Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
R.C. Buford-Spurs

Already Eliminated
4. ???
5. Geoff Petrie - Kings (HAWK23, Lets_Play_2, ViciousFlogging, airety, jollyoscars)
6. Bryan Colangelo - Suns (Rhyder, ViciousFlogging, Lets_Play_2, BealeFarange, HAWK23)
7. Kevin O Connor - Jazz (HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, ChiBulls2315, johnston797, Hustle)
8. Jerry West - Grizzlies (ChiBulls2315, BealeFarange, RP McMurphy, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2)
9. Rick Sund - Sonics (HAWK23, airety, such sweet thunder, BealeFarange, johnston797)
10. Rod Thorn- Nets (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, Minnesota Magician, Rhyder, Lets_Play_2)
11. Kiki Vandegwhe - Nuggets (such sweet thunder, johnston797, Rhyder, airety, BealeFarange)
12. Don Nelson - Mavs (Rhyder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan, jollyoscars)
13. Kevin McHale - T Wolves (jollyoscars, such sweet thunder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, TomBoerwinkle#1)
14. John Weisbrod - Magic (such sweet thunder, Lets_Play_2, airety, Rhyder, ChiBulls2315)
15. Bernie Bickerstaff - Bobcats (jollyoscars, ChiBulls2315, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan)
16. Ernie Grunfeld - Wizards (Rhyder, Lets_Play_2, TomBoerwinkle#1, Theo!, jollyoscars)
17. Larry Harris - Bucks (ScottMay, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2, HAWK23, T.Shock)
18. Allan Bristow - Hornets (Rhyder, johnston797, PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, krob)
19. JOHN Paxson - Bulls (texan, BealeFarange, TomBoerwinkle#1, PC Load Letter, ScottMay)
20. Mitch Kupchak - Lakers (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, RP McMurphy,
Mikedc, krob)
21. Carrol Dawson - Rockets (PC Load Letter, T.Shock, Laker Freak, johnston797, ChiBulls2315)
22. Billy Knight - Hawks (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange, jollyoscars, T.Shock)
23. Rob Babcock - Raptors (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter, Mikedc, ScottMay)
24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 27 UPDATE

1 Donnie Walsh (jollyoscars)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Sticking to my guns and voting

Donnie Walsh


----------



## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Riley has survived a lot of bad moves through some real luck (Brian Grant, Eddie Jones, etc). 

Dumars is the only one of those guys who I can't think of a really bad move he's made.


----------



## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Hmmmm anybody who drafts Wade and trades 35 cents for 100 million dollars is the best G.M. period. I'll say Dumars just cause of the Darko over Carmelo thing.


----------



## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

I think Dumars wasted that 2nd pick on Darko, who I don't think is going to amount to much. He hasn't shown any flashes at all, and Carmelo would have made that team so much deadlier. Last year it wouldn't have mattered, but it would have been good for this year.

But still. Pat Riley. For giving bad contracts to Grant and Jones in particular.


----------



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

Pat Riley- MIA


----------



## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> Pat Riley- MIA


:yes:


----------



## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

Riley. Those deals for Jones and Grant got them stuck in non-contender status for several years, and they were even pretty awful there briefly. Drafting Wade, and Butler to a lesser extent, and signing Lamar, and of course getting Shaq, are what bring him back up to #4. But I'd take the other guys left over him. Plus, this Miami team better win in the next year or two, or the Shaq trade will not be as much of a killing as it looks like.


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 27 ELIMINATION: Pat Riley

5 Pat Riley (Mikedc, airety, HAWK23, johnston797, ViciousFlogging)
2 Donnie Walsh (jollyoscars, Rhyder)
1 Joe Dumars (T.Shock)


----------



## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R*

ROUND 28

Alive

Donnie Walsh-Pacers
Joe Dumars-Pistons
R.C. Buford-Spurs

Already Eliminated
3. ???
4. Pat Riley - Heat (Mikedc, airety, HAWK23, johnston797, ViciousFlogging)
5. Geoff Petrie - Kings (HAWK23, Lets_Play_2, ViciousFlogging, airety, jollyoscars)
6. Bryan Colangelo - Suns (Rhyder, ViciousFlogging, Lets_Play_2, BealeFarange, HAWK23)
7. Kevin O Connor - Jazz (HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, ChiBulls2315, johnston797, Hustle)
8. Jerry West - Grizzlies (ChiBulls2315, BealeFarange, RP McMurphy, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2)
9. Rick Sund - Sonics (HAWK23, airety, such sweet thunder, BealeFarange, johnston797)
10. Rod Thorn- Nets (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, Minnesota Magician, Rhyder, Lets_Play_2)
11. Kiki Vandegwhe - Nuggets (such sweet thunder, johnston797, Rhyder, airety, BealeFarange)
12. Don Nelson - Mavs (Rhyder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan, jollyoscars)
13. Kevin McHale - T Wolves (jollyoscars, such sweet thunder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, TomBoerwinkle#1)
14. John Weisbrod - Magic (such sweet thunder, Lets_Play_2, airety, Rhyder, ChiBulls2315)
15. Bernie Bickerstaff - Bobcats (jollyoscars, ChiBulls2315, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan)
16. Ernie Grunfeld - Wizards (Rhyder, Lets_Play_2, TomBoerwinkle#1, Theo!, jollyoscars)
17. Larry Harris - Bucks (ScottMay, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2, HAWK23, T.Shock)
18. Allan Bristow - Hornets (Rhyder, johnston797, PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, krob)
19. JOHN Paxson - Bulls (texan, BealeFarange, TomBoerwinkle#1, PC Load Letter, ScottMay)
20. Mitch Kupchak - Lakers (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, RP McMurphy,
Mikedc, krob)
21. Carrol Dawson - Rockets (PC Load Letter, T.Shock, Laker Freak, johnston797, ChiBulls2315)
22. Billy Knight - Hawks (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange, jollyoscars, T.Shock)
23. Rob Babcock - Raptors (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter, Mikedc, ScottMay)
24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC)


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Donnie Walsh for the Miller for Pollard trade.


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## airety (Oct 29, 2002)

You know, I was totally about to go with Walsh. Then I realized, wait. This guy traded Dale Davis for Jermaine O'Neal.

And then he traded Jalen Rose and Travis Best for Ron Artest and Brad Miller.

He traded Antonio Davis for Jonathan Bender. Antonio Davis now gets paid eight figures a year to put up 6/6.


Drafted Harrington, Bender, and Brezec. Drafted Freddie Jones. 


Let's look at Dumars.

Drafted Mateen Cleaves at 14, and Cardinal in the 2nd round. Cardinal never really got a chance. Traded for Ben Wallace and Chucky Atkins, and shipped out most everybody for future cap room.

Drafted Rodney White at #9. Drafted Ohkur in the 2nd round. 

Drafted Tayshaun Prince late 1st round. Traded Stackhouse for Rip, Bobby Simmons. 

Cut Bobby Simmons.

Traded Rodney White for a 1st round and garbage.

Fired Carlisle after a 50 win season for Larry Brown. Drafted Darko #2. Traded for Rasheed.

Resigned Rasheed, signed McDyess.


When I look at that, I think Walsh has done more with less. He has drafted better. His trades are bigger steals. No titles, but we just kicked off guys with titles willy-nilly. On top of that, half the guys the Pistons shipped out or cut are decent/good players elsewhere. 


I still think Buford is the best, so later Dumars.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Awesome post Airety. I'm convinced

See ya Joe


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

dumars, your outta here


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 28 UPDATE

3 Joe Dumars (airety, Mikedc, texan)
1 Donnie Walsh (Rhyder)


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Walsh - Got rid of Miller too quick and held onto Artest and Bender and Harrington too long.


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## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

Nice job in SA, but how hard is it to build around Tim Duncan? 

RC, :naughty: you're fired. (err for me anyway :grinning: )


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

Dumars picking Millic over Anthony :nonono: 


Joseph Dumars!


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 28 UPDATE

4 Joe Dumars (airety, Mikedc, texan, HAWK23)
2 Donnie Walsh (Rhyder, johnston797)
1 RC Buford (ChiBulls2315)


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## jollyoscars (Jul 5, 2003)

dumars


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## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

OK so Dumars is fired...

RC or Walsh


Still going with RC. Hard to argue championships, but Walsh never had a Duncan and rebuilt that team in zero time to what is now a contender. He only lost Miller b/c they couldn't spend the money. RC can't be the one drafted Robinson either. The biggest thing there is Duncan and you can't take credit for selecting him #1 in the draft.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

> He only lost Miller b/c they couldn't spend the money.




Because he'd already spent it on Jeff Foster and Jonathan Bender. :|


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## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ShamBulls</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




True but they both gave out some bad contracts. He still rebuilt the team extremely fast into a contender with some great trades while not having a Tim Duncan around.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

What bad contract has Buford given out other than Rasho?


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ShamBulls</b>!
> What bad contract has Buford given out other than Rasho?


Malic Rose's contract was exorbitant.

Both have similar misses. One let Brad Miller go, the other let Stephen Jackson leave. Bad contracts given to Malic and Rahsho verse bad contract for Foster and R. Miller. Both have found talent overseas. Two great Gms. The only thing that separates is a championship. 

My vote is for Walsh.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

> Malic Rose's contract was exorbitant.



Hmmmm, fair enough, but he does seem to churn up near-max cap room every other year, as well as win titles.






> One let Brad Miller go, the other let Stephen Jackson leave.




On purpose. And, as you can see, they were better for it......






> Both have found talent overseas.



Who's Indiana's overseas talent? Bruno Sundov, Primoz Brezec, Ruben Wolkowski or Gregor F*cka? Only one of them is any good, and Walsh let him get away for nothing.....






> The only thing that separates is a championship.


Or two. Buford didn't just build a championship team, he built two. That takes some doing.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

ROUND 28 ELIMINATION: Joe Dumars

5 Joe Dumars (airety, Mikedc, texan, HAWK23, jollyoscars)
2 Donnie Walsh (Rhyder, johnston797)
1 RC Buford (ChiBulls2315)


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R*

FINAL ROUND

Alive

Donnie Walsh-Pacers
R.C. Buford-Spurs

Already Eliminated
1. ???
2. ???
3. Joe Dumars - Pistons (airety, Mikedc, texan, HAWK23, jollyoscars)
4. Pat Riley - Heat (Mikedc, airety, HAWK23, johnston797, ViciousFlogging)
5. Geoff Petrie - Kings (HAWK23, Lets_Play_2, ViciousFlogging, airety, jollyoscars)
6. Bryan Colangelo - Suns (Rhyder, ViciousFlogging, Lets_Play_2, BealeFarange, HAWK23)
7. Kevin O Connor - Jazz (HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, ChiBulls2315, johnston797, Hustle)
8. Jerry West - Grizzlies (ChiBulls2315, BealeFarange, RP McMurphy, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2)
9. Rick Sund - Sonics (HAWK23, airety, such sweet thunder, BealeFarange, johnston797)
10. Rod Thorn- Nets (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, Minnesota Magician, Rhyder, Lets_Play_2)
11. Kiki Vandegwhe - Nuggets (such sweet thunder, johnston797, Rhyder, airety, BealeFarange)
12. Don Nelson - Mavs (Rhyder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan, jollyoscars)
13. Kevin McHale - T Wolves (jollyoscars, such sweet thunder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, TomBoerwinkle#1)
14. John Weisbrod - Magic (such sweet thunder, Lets_Play_2, airety, Rhyder, ChiBulls2315)
15. Bernie Bickerstaff - Bobcats (jollyoscars, ChiBulls2315, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan)
16. Ernie Grunfeld - Wizards (Rhyder, Lets_Play_2, TomBoerwinkle#1, Theo!, jollyoscars)
17. Larry Harris - Bucks (ScottMay, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2, HAWK23, T.Shock)
18. Allan Bristow - Hornets (Rhyder, johnston797, PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, krob)
19. JOHN Paxson - Bulls (texan, BealeFarange, TomBoerwinkle#1, PC Load Letter, ScottMay)
20. Mitch Kupchak - Lakers (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, RP McMurphy,
Mikedc, krob)
21. Carrol Dawson - Rockets (PC Load Letter, T.Shock, Laker Freak, johnston797, ChiBulls2315)
22. Billy Knight - Hawks (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange, jollyoscars, T.Shock)
23. Rob Babcock - Raptors (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter, Mikedc, ScottMay)
24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC)


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

1 RC Buford (ChiBulls2315)
1 Donnie Walsh (such sweet thunder)


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

I'm going to have to agree with such sweet, and as I have been voting the past 3 rounds:

Donnie Walsh


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

Both Walsh and Buford have a good draft history and both have made enough moves to keep their teams near the top every year. The difference in my mind being that Buford absolutely lucked out by David Robinson getting injured and missing most of 96/97 season. Obviously, that enabled them to be in position to get the #1 pick and draft Duncan. That's not to take away from what he's done because they were a very good team before that. But, they wouldn't have won a championship without Duncan; just like Walsh hasn't without a Duncan-type.

Walsh has kept his team good every year with only the aid of mid-to-late first round draft picks. On top of that, he's made some the best trades ever that were already mentioned.

I'm voting for Buford.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Walsh


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

I never want to see the Pacers winning anything, including an internet "GM Survivor" game. Walsh must go.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

FINAL ROUND UPDATE

4 Donnie Walsh (such sweet thunder, Rhyder, johnston797, TomBoerwinkle#1)
2 RC Buford (ChiBulls2315, PC Load Letter)


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

I'm back just in time to play a part in the grand finale...great game, by the way, Rhyder. 

This is really tough...I'm one of four people on the planet that isn't totally in love with San Antonio. Duncan is a total stud and as he goes, they go. And he goes pretty damn far. Ginobli was a great find but he wasn't exactly anonymous...Rasho balances that out, in my opinion, with his lackluster play and huge contract. Well, almost balances it out. Then there's Parker...I think he took more guts to draft than Manu but I think he's overpaid...but understandably so based on what he could potentially accomplish, what he already has accomplished, and his age. I still think SA is the luckiest team ever for getting Duncan in the first place (tank as season with a very good team missing its all-world star and then win the lottery) and that's always rubbed me the wrong way. Plus, I think Malik Rose is one of the worst players in basketball and he was signed to a big deal. Barry is underperforming and is being used oddly, SJax was a great find who was unbelievably let go for nothing when everyone knew he was going to break out...but then Devin Brown is a stellar value...every negative has a big positive for Buford. 

With Walsh, well, Bulls fans know the guy is a master trader. Airety went over that...and it's true. He fleeced the Bulls, he fleeced Toronto, he fleeced Portland. He may have the best trading track record ever...save Brad Miller, whom he couldn't afford due to being a small market team. He's handled the bizarre coaching carousel over there with patience and a bit of class and he only gave Reggie Miller a big contract because, well, Reggie Miller has to get a big contract in Indiana. I just can't fault him for rewarding the guy even if I don't like Eared One. However, his international eye hasn't been stellar and he left the wrong guy (Brezec) available in the expansion draft. How useful would he have been while JO was out? (Speaking of JO...55 points...my god!) That's one high school kid who achieved...unlike Bender, who has been on the verge for what seems like ages. Harrington was traded too late, maybe, but they got Jackson in return and I don't think anyone can say that was a bad move...well...no one could possibly have known at the time anyway....and I don't think anyone actually wanted Artest traded, either. He's just one of those talented headcases you live with...we all would have taken him back in a second...and, again, we just couldn't have known....

Both built two solid teams and both transfomred older championship contenders into younger ones...nice. Both teams are deep and talented, though Buford's is less insane. Both have great coaches...this is really tough.

By a nose, I'm going to vote off Walsh. He constructed the team with chemistry problems (jax+artest together under carlisle) even if it is forgivable and Buford has always been a financial master...he never would have been forced into trading Brad Miller. My heart says Walsh is better...but I'm voting him off.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*FINAL ROUND ELIMINATION:*
:upset: Donnie Walsh :upset:

5 Donnie Walsh (such sweet thunder, Rhyder, johnston797, TomBoerwinkle#1, BealeFarange)
2 RC Buford (ChiBulls2315, PC Load Letter)

*WINNER*
:rbanana: :wbanana: :bbanana: RC Buford :rbanana: :wbanana: :bbanana:


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R*

FINAL RANKING
1. R.C. Buford - Spurs (ChiBulls2315, PC Load Letter)
2. Donnie Walsh - Pacers (such sweet thunder, Rhyder, johnston797, TomBoerwinkle#1, BealeFarange)
3. Joe Dumars - Pistons (airety, Mikedc, texan, HAWK23, jollyoscars)
4. Pat Riley - Heat (Mikedc, airety, HAWK23, johnston797, ViciousFlogging)
5. Geoff Petrie - Kings (HAWK23, Lets_Play_2, ViciousFlogging, airety, jollyoscars)
6. Bryan Colangelo - Suns (Rhyder, ViciousFlogging, Lets_Play_2, BealeFarange, HAWK23)
7. Kevin O Connor - Jazz (HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, ChiBulls2315, johnston797, Hustle)
8. Jerry West - Grizzlies (ChiBulls2315, BealeFarange, RP McMurphy, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2)
9. Rick Sund - Sonics (HAWK23, airety, such sweet thunder, BealeFarange, johnston797)
10. Rod Thorn- Nets (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, Minnesota Magician, Rhyder, Lets_Play_2)
11. Kiki Vandegwhe - Nuggets (such sweet thunder, johnston797, Rhyder, airety, BealeFarange)
12. Don Nelson - Mavs (Rhyder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan, jollyoscars)
13. Kevin McHale - T Wolves (jollyoscars, such sweet thunder, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, TomBoerwinkle#1)
14. John Weisbrod - Magic (such sweet thunder, Lets_Play_2, airety, Rhyder, ChiBulls2315)
15. Bernie Bickerstaff - Bobcats (jollyoscars, ChiBulls2315, HAWK23, ViciousFlogging, texan)
16. Ernie Grunfeld - Wizards (Rhyder, Lets_Play_2, TomBoerwinkle#1, Theo!, jollyoscars)
17. Larry Harris - Bucks (ScottMay, TomBoerwinkle#1, Lets_Play_2, HAWK23, T.Shock)
18. Allan Bristow - Hornets (Rhyder, johnston797, PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, krob)
19. JOHN Paxson - Bulls (texan, BealeFarange, TomBoerwinkle#1, PC Load Letter, ScottMay)
20. Mitch Kupchak - Lakers (PC Load Letter, ViciousFlogging, RP McMurphy,
Mikedc, krob)
21. Carrol Dawson - Rockets (PC Load Letter, T.Shock, Laker Freak, johnston797, ChiBulls2315)
22. Billy Knight - Hawks (HAWK23, krob, BealeFarange, jollyoscars, T.Shock)
23. Rob Babcock - Raptors (Rhyder, HAWK23, PC Load Letter, Mikedc, ScottMay)
24. John Nash - Trail Blazers (Rhyder, BealeFarange, PC Load Letter, ScottMay, johnston797)
25. Billy King - 76ers (airety, BealeFarange, Mikedc, Yyzlin, T.Shock)
26. Danny Ainge - Celtics (PC Load Letter, Hustle, BealeFarange, ScottMay, krob)
27. JIM Paxson - Cavs (Rhyder, KHinrich12, Mikedc, such sweet thunder, DMD)
28. Elgin Baylor - Clippers (airety, PC, Hawk, krob, johnston)
29. Isaiah Thomas - Knicks (ScottMay, PC, TomB, Let's Play, Beale)
30. Chris Mullin - Warriors (Rhyder, DMD, ScottMay, Beale, PC)


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

OK, now let's do one for trainers!


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>PC Load Letter</b>!
> OK, now let's do one for trainers!


:laugh: :laugh:


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

MOST INFLUENTIAL

Those who voted on the most candidates in their respective elimination round

1. HAWK23 - 13
2. BealeFarange - 12
2. Rhyder - 12
4. PC Load Letter - 11
5. ViciousFlogging - 10
6. johnston797 - 9
7. Airety - 8
7. Let's_Play_2 - 8
9. jollyoscars - 7
9. ScottMay - 7
9. TomBoerwinkle#1 - 7
12. Mikedc - 6
12. such sweet thunder - 6
14. ChiBulls2315 - 5
14. krob - 5
16. T.Shock - 4
16. texan - 4
18. Darius Miles Davis - 2
18. Hustle - 2
18. RP McMurphy - 2
21. KHinrich12 - 1
21. Laker Freak - 1
21. Minnesota Magician - 1
21. Theo! - 1
21. Yyzlin - 1


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>PC Load Letter</b>!
> OK, now let's do one for trainers!


I was going to do one on current Head Coaches next, but I think I'm going to take a break for a week or two.

Doing this game has definately hurt my productivity at work


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Thanks, Rhyder. That was a lot of fun.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> Thanks, Rhyder. That was a lot of fun.


No problem, and I had a lot of fun doing it as well.

I'm just glad everyone stuck with it. It's hard to keep a thread alive for a week and half sans the Jamal thread.


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Rhyder</b>!
> MOST INFLUENTIAL
> 
> Those who voted on the most candidates in their respective elimination round
> ...


Hey, I should get two points for casting the FINAL vote! 
 

My productivity hit 0 this week due in part to this game...a week break before the coach game will let me research coaches....er, I mean...work...


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BealeFarange</b>!
> 
> 
> Hey, I should get two points for casting the FINAL vote!
> ...


Or I could just give you 1/2 for being a follower


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## such sweet thunder (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ShamBulls</b>!
> 
> Hmmmm, fair enough, but he does seem to churn up near-max cap room every other year, as well as win titles.
> 
> ...


The game is over, but I'm going to respond because this is so much fun. One bad contract is hardly reason for calling a GM out, but this was the finals. The Spurs won with Jackson gunning from the perimiter; the loss of his scoring (problems and all) was the main reason I think they lost to the Lakes last year. Primoz Brezec can be my starting center. And, in the end I voted off Walsh in agreement with you . 




As far as our final list goes, I am comfortable with the entire list except for the early John Paxson exit. I see him being a couple of places higher. Though, I expect this may be more attributable to the selection method then the overall sentiments on the board. If the question was best GM and we were counting down from the top he probably would be higher then I would have placed him.


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## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TomBoerwinkle#1</b>!
> Thanks, Rhyder. That was a lot of fun.


yep it was...

I'm pissed I missed the final vote... it would have been for Walsh though.... Buford is just too money in drafts


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

For some reason, I thought that the Spurs won the year AFTER Jackson went, and not with him. Whoops. Brain fart there. But Buford justly won. :worship:


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## ViciousFlogging (Sep 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>such sweet thunder</b>!
> 
> The Spurs won with Jackson gunning from the perimiter; the loss of his scoring (problems and all) was the main reason I think they lost to the Lakes last year.


To be fair, the Spurs offered Jackson a contract that was much larger than the one-year deal he took with the Hawks last year. Was it his true value? No, but the market last offseason didn't value him any higher than the Spurs did. To Jackson's credit, he played well and cashed in last year - and the Spurs definitely could have used him last year. He helped Bowen with Kobe and seemed to make a lot of clutch 3s, even though he also missed plenty of them.


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## The OUTLAW (Jun 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>such sweet thunder</b>!
> 
> 
> though i have the utmost respect for may's use of the word "titular," my vote is jim paxson. losing boozer is enough to warrant being cained; let alone getting fired.


I think you guys are being a bit hard on Paxson. He is being blamed for the Boozer fiasco, while the owner was the one that not only gave the go aheard he actually pushed for it when Paxson told him his concern. In addition it was Paxson that saw fit to draft Boozer when about 20 teams passed on him that shouldn't have (heck you guys drafted Roger Mason in front of him). In addition, Paxson did a remarkable job picking up Gooden as well as Varejao to fill that spot. This trade was an absolute steal. Yeah some of his early drafts weren't all that good, but I'd say he's done very well over the last 3 years.


----------

