# Time for Kobe to put up or shut up.



## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

This is now his team. Obviously, it isn't perfect but he's got some talent to work with and he finally gets a chance to lead a team on his own. This season will prove just how good Kobe really is. Obviously, I don't expect him to win a championship. The Lakers won't come close for a few more years. However, I do expect him to lead this team into the playoffs. Anything less than that is unacceptable. In Odom, Grant, Butler, and Payton the Lakers have some talent to work with. If he can't muster 45 wins out of this squad then I'm going to have to call his leadership ability into question. Whether he likes it or not, people are going to judge his greatness based on how the Lakers perform from here on out. Besides, he's partly responsible for creating this situation so I'll have no sympathy for him if he fails. No more excuses. 

BTW, I think he's going to succeed.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

I think he'll succeed, too. 

Now, I have to cheer for the Lakers - they have a favorite player of mine - Odom. They also have Grant, an excellent position defender, tough. I also like the fundamentals of Luke Walton. Then they have this guy named, Kobe.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*nba is going to be VERY interesting.*

Kobe will be putting up-about 35 heavily contested, offbalance, onelegged shots per game. Have fun struggling to get an 8 seed Laker fans.


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## carayip (Jan 15, 2003)

Yeah, he gets a supporting cast awfully similar to that of Jordan's.

Odom~Pippen
Bulter~Kukoc
Grant~Grant
Fisher~Kerr
Payton~Harper

So the question is: Kobe=Jordon?


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

I got love for what the Lakers are doin

They were put in a rough situation and there making the best out of it- they made there decision and there standing by it. As long as Kobe doesnt continue to run the front office after he is signed then things should be just fine in Laker-Land


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>carayip</b>!
> Yeah, he gets a supporting cast awfully similar to that of Jordan's.
> 
> Odom~Pippen
> ...


Dont count on Fisher being here

No- Kobe doesnt = Jordan

But it's all good, because he is the closest thing you can get in the current-day NBA


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> This is now his team. Obviously, it isn't perfect but he's got some talent to work with and he finally gets a chance to lead a team on his own. This season will prove just how good Kobe really is. Obviously, I don't expect him to win a championship. The Lakers won't come close for a few more years. However, I do expect him to lead this team into the playoffs. Anything less than that is unacceptable. In Odom, Grant, Butler, and Payton the Lakers have some talent to work with. If he can't muster 45 wins out of this squad then I'm going to have to call his leadership ability into question. Whether he likes it or not, people are going to judge his greatness based on how the Lakers perform from here on out. Besides, he's partly responsible for creating this situation so I'll have no sympathy for him if he fails. No more excuses.
> 
> BTW, I think he's going to succeed.


Me too. And, I shudder to write this, but I'll be rooting for him. I've rooted against the Lakers for as long as I can remember. But with Shaq and Phil gone, and Malone either gone or worthless, the Lakers have been cleansed of the players that I hate.


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Marcus13</b>!
> 
> 
> Dont count on Fisher being here
> ...


Agreed.

Kobe does not equal Jordan, but to Kobe's credit, I think he'll struggle occasionally with the Lakers but will have an overall good season and will be in the playoffs.


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## carayip (Jan 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Marcus13</b>!
> 
> 
> Dont count on Fisher being here
> ...


No, I don't think Kobe=Jordan. But sure now he gets a chance to prove that he is or not, with his own little Kobe-centric team.


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## Fuel_Bomb (Jul 11, 2004)

Yes Kobe is a good player, but definately not at the MJ level.

Personally I've had it with Kobe.
He demands that Lakers get coach K. He demands that each other team he interviews gives HIM a one hour presentation of why he should play for them. 
Everythings should be the other way around in the NBA. Kobe is just too up for himself, and I don't know why Lakers management would want to keep him esp. with the 140 million deal they're about to offer him.

I don't blame Shaq for requesting a trade.


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

If the Lakers can stay healthy, they might be able to get into the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>carayip</b>!
> Yeah, he gets a supporting cast awfully similar to that of Jordan's.
> 
> Odom~Pippen


Your equation breaks down right about there. Pippen is likely a top-25 player and a certain Hall of Famer. Odom isn't even close to being that.

It's more like:

Kobe~Pippen
Odom > Kukoc

But where's the Jordan?

Anyway, I think this will be an interesting season for Bryant. I don't think it's a lock that he remains with the Lakers, as the Clippers also have a very promising (arguably better) supporting cast to put around Bryant, but I think the Lakers are the favourites to sign him and, anyway, Bryant would have very similar quality around him in either case.

I agree that he's going to be judged much more for what he does from here on out than the last five or six years.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Wait a minute, Kobe hasn't said he's coming back yet. Obviously, the Lakers have done everything that he had wanted them to, and have offered to put the franchise in his hands. However, he could STILL leave.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Damian Necronamous</b>!
> Wait a minute, Kobe hasn't said he's coming back yet. Obviously, the Lakers have done everything that he had wanted them to, and have offered to put the franchise in his hands. However, he could STILL leave.


Your a Laker fan, so I understand that this is a sensitive subject, and your not going to believe anything until it's done. But for the rest of NBA fans, Kobe is returning


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

The Clippers do have a better team to put around Kobe than the Lakers, but I doubt Kobe puts his future in Donald Sterlings hands. 

I see him returning to the Lakers.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Yeah, this should be Kobe's best year yet. I think the Lakers just may go quite far this postseason, depending on what happens with the Kings, Spurs, and Twolves the rest of the summer. 

And I don't see Kobe leaving either, even if the Clippers can put a better team around Kobe (no way he wants to play for Sterling).


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## brazys (Jul 17, 2002)

Man, I am loving this divorce. Not from a Laker hater standpoint, it's just generally good for NBA - there's an intrigue of which one will take his team further, how good Kobe really is, two regular season "reunions", East having third powerhouse, everybody in the West breathing easier and having more hope without Shaq up there...

It's all good.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>brazys</b>!
> Man, I am loving this divorce. Not from a Laker hater standpoint, it's just generally good for NBA - there's an intrigue of which one will take his team further, how good Kobe really is, two regular season "reunions", East having third powerhouse, everybody in the West breathing easier and having more hope without Shaq up there...
> 
> It's all good.


I agree, even as a Laker fan. This makes the rest of the NBA (though Kobe moreso than ever before) much more interesting. And it makes the Lakers much more fun to watch with Payton, Kobe, Odom and Butler all players that can run and gun.


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> Yeah, this should be Kobe's best year yet. I think the Lakers just may go quite far this postseason, depending on what happens with the Kings, Spurs, and Twolves the rest of the summer.
> 
> And I don't see Kobe leaving either, even if the Clippers can put a better team around Kobe (no way he wants to play for Sterling).


The Lakers aren't going very far. They will be fighting for the last 3 playoff spots in the west if they can keep the team healthy.


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## Captain Kool (May 18, 2004)

*Re: nba is going to be VERY interesting.*



> Originally posted by <b>sherako</b>!
> Kobe will be putting up-about 35 heavily contested, offbalance, onelegged shots per game. Have fun struggling to get an 8 seed Laker fans.


Preach...!!!


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Idunkonyou</b>!
> 
> 
> The Lakers aren't going very far. They will be fighting for the last 3 playoff spots in the west if they can keep the team healthy.


Like I said, depending on what happens to the Lakers and other teams, I think the Lakers could go far. I definitely don't expect a title, that's pretty much out of the question unless the Lakers acquire Dampier and Clark somehow.


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> 
> Like I said, depending on what happens to the Lakers and other teams, I think the Lakers could go far. I definitely don't expect a title, that's pretty much out of the question unless the Lakers acquire Dampier and Clark somehow.


They aren't getting Dampier unless he signs for the MLE which isn't going to happen. You might be able to get Clark for half of the MLE though. He hasn't done crap since going out west so you might even be able to get him for the VLE. 

The Lakers IMO have a shot at the 6th, 7th or 8th seed with the team they have. Of course they will be in tough competition for those slots considering any number of other teams could get them (Suns, Grizz, Jazz, Clippers, Nuggets, Blazers).


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

It seems like the perfect opportunity for Kobe to jump from a sinking ship while staying (relatively) loyal to the fans in LA by choosing the Clippers. It might take a cold heart but it could set him up to cement his legacy by taking the forever terrible Clips and make them one of the best teams in the league. Lebron is going to be doing the same in the eastern conference and I don't think Kobe wants to fall behind when it comes to the most important thing in a player's career.

To me, Livingston, Maggette, Brand, Kaman, Wilcox, et al are too much to pass up. Having that kind of talent locked up to go with so much money to spend just doesn't come up very often. Staying at home with the same fans is just a huge bonus. Would the Lakers fans really hate him that much for switching teams? If i'm a Kobe fan, I want him to keep winning. 

The Clippers would be the new showtime team in LA (not that they haven't been exciting in recent years)- a great all round team but one where Kobe can remain the main man. Even having a point guard straight out of highschool, I think Kobe could lead the Clips to the playoffs in fine fashion. 

The Lakers have a couple of good players. If Kobe stayed, they could really struggle, which is fine because a lottery pick could do them a world of good.


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## RhettO (May 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> It seems like the perfect opportunity for Kobe to jump from a sinking ship while staying (relatively) loyal to the fans in LA by choosing the Clippers. It might take a cold heart but it could set him up to cement his legacy by taking the forever terrible Clips and make them one of the best teams in the league. Lebron is going to be doing the same in the eastern conference and I don't think Kobe wants to fall behind when it comes to the most important thing in a player's career.
> 
> To me, Livingston, Maggette, Brand, Kaman, Wilcox, et al are too much to pass up. Having that kind of talent locked up to go with so much money to spend just doesn't come up very often. Staying at home with the same fans is just a huge bonus. Would the Lakers fans really hate him that much for switching teams? If i'm a Kobe fan, I want him to keep winning.
> ...


This may be biased, but this post was excellent. Donald Sterling is a businessman. He is here to make money, sure. But who could make him more money than Kobe? Brand and Maggette are locked. Is he really going to trade them to save some money (if/when they sign Kobe) if they're putting fans in the seats night in and night out with Kobe along side them? He wants Kobe. He may not mind being the worst team in professional sports history, but he definitely wouldn't mind being the team that came from the bottom of the barrel to become champs. 

P.S. The "champs" comment was hypothetical, of course. No flaming!


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

If Kobe leaves to the Clippers after Shaq is dealt to the Heat, that would be a cold, COLD day in LaLa land. 

I really wonder how the Lakers would recover. It wouldn't be any time soon since Odom is locked up for a while. Grant is under a bad contract for the next 3 years. I'm sure if Butler has a great year they would want to re-sign him. 

It would be a while before we saw the Lakers in the playoffs that is for sure.

I agree with Skywalker. The Clippers have more to offer from a roster standpoint since all of their young players are under contract for a long time. They could pretty much all grow together.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Here's the thing though: What's worth more, winning with the Clippers and being their savior, or being the man on the Lakers being the lattest in a long line of legends to don the Gold and Forum Blue?

If Kobe went to the Clippers he could turn the Clippers into a powerhouse, but no matter what they'd never be the Lakers. It'd be like leaving the Yankees to go to the Mets, it's simply not the same. The Lakers are Boardwalk, the Clippers are Baltic Avenue, and unless Kobe would win six titles with the Clippers that's something that wouldn't change.

If I was his shoes, it'd sure be hard to turn down playing for the Lakers.


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## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PhillyPhanatic</b>!
> Here's the thing though: What's worth more, winning with the Clippers and being their savior, or being the man on the Lakers being the lattest in a long line of legends to don the Gold and Forum Blue?
> 
> If Kobe went to the Clippers he could turn the Clippers into a powerhouse, but no matter what they'd never be the Lakers. It'd be like leaving the Yankees to go to the Mets, it's simply not the same. The Lakers are Boardwalk, the Clippers are Baltic Avenue, and unless Kobe would win six titles with the Clippers that's something that wouldn't change.
> ...


I don't think it has a lot to do with the Clippers and their failures as a club. It has more to do with their owner who has been arguably the worst owner in sports history. If he can prove that he will spend money, I don't see why Kobe wouldn't want to go there? They have a super young team, with a lot of talent. If all of that talent grows up together, they could be a power house for years and years.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> It seems like the perfect opportunity for Kobe to jump from a sinking ship while staying (relatively) loyal to the fans in LA by choosing the Clippers. It might take a cold heart but it could set him up to cement his legacy by taking the forever terrible Clips and make them one of the best teams in the league. Lebron is going to be doing the same in the eastern conference and I don't think Kobe wants to fall behind when it comes to the most important thing in a player's career.
> 
> To me, Livingston, Maggette, Brand, Kaman, Wilcox, et al are too much to pass up. Having that kind of talent locked up to go with so much money to spend just doesn't come up very often. Staying at home with the same fans is just a huge bonus. Would the Lakers fans really hate him that much for switching teams? If i'm a Kobe fan, I want him to keep winning.
> ...


Junior is Junior.

1) Are we assuming Kobe will be the no.1 option for Clippers offense?
2) What do we expect the clippers to be with Kobe leading the way? Some playoff success? or a championship?

I assumed you the answers are all yes, but the supporting casts around Kobe arent perferect here. Why?

1) Brand? What kind of interior presence does he provide besides the face up game against the true inside greats, or the pathetic hook shots against combo forwards like Walker? Marshall and a few ***Edited: No masked cursing*** in the NBA? If we are to be "Kobe oriented", your PF cant be guysthat cant contribute without the ball. Ben Wallace? Antonio Davis? Yes, Brian Grant? Yes. even Amare, YES. 

2) Maggatte my ***Edited: No masked cursing***! Does he have a handle? NO, does he have the size and ability to defense the Guards/Forwards for Kobe so Kobe can save energy for offense? NO! Kobe will have to be the ball handler again for his team. Kobe needs to play off the ball without worrying the offense dont run properly. But Lamar Odom can. Fans here are tooi caught up with the obivous so called creators in Marbury, Francis. But the Penny Hardaways(the past 2 seasons), the Pippens, the Odoms guys dont look super in the playmaking role but they always get the ball to where the ball is supposed to go to allow the main scorer on the team to take shot without spending too much energy or have to do everything by himself.

I really think the Odom the SF, the Grant the PF is a great foundation, or the best that Kobe can get. 

Odom can always attack and play with the ball in transcation, since he is so long he can always grab defensive rebounds and burst out to start fastbreak. And if he didnt like what he sees, he waits for Kobe, the one of the best halfcourt scorers in the game along with Shaq, Duncan, Iverson and Carter..


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>carayip</b>!
> Yeah, he gets a supporting cast awfully similar to that of Jordan's.
> 
> Odom~Pippen
> ...


1. Fisher has re-signed with LA? Last I hear a Laker fan told me he wanted more than 5 million to return.

2. Kukoc and Grant never played together on a team including Michael Jordan.......neither did Harper and Grant. You have to separate it.

3. Brian Grant is not as good as 1992 Horace Grant, primarily because Ho played PF and LA will have to use Grant at center.

4. Odom is probably better than Scottie was until 1991. But from 1991 on Scottie (because he went from shrimp to pimp mentally!) was a player that Odom can never dream of becoming.

I'll say Kobe has a cast similar to MJ in 1990. So it stands to reason that he'll go to the finals since nobody Kobe is playing next year is as good as the 1990 Pistons who beat MJ and Scottie in game 7 in the Eastern Finals.


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## IAMGREAT (May 22, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> I think he'll succeed, too.
> 
> Now, I have to cheer for the Lakers - they have a favorite player of mine - Odom. They also have Grant, an excellent position defender, tough. I also like the fundamentals of Luke Walton. Then they have this guy named, Kobe.


<strike>You're a complete bigot. </strike> (Namecalling is not tolerated here. Don't do it again.) :nonono:
What the hell is '...the fundamentals of Luke Walton'?


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

If Odom can keep that improved work ethic he developed down in Miami, I think the Lakers will be in good shape.

You know Kobe is working his butt of this summer, if Odom can get motivated and continue to improve, Odom and Kobe could do some real damage in the West. 

Grant- Ouch, 3 years left and he is 32. Did I mention he sucks. Hopefully he can work on some stuff this summer and he better bring it this season or he is gonna get killed by the media and fans.

Butler- Nice piece here if they get him, skilled, attacks the basket, decent defender.

Odom- chance to compliment Kobe perfectly.

I think the Lakers will win 50-55 games. I think that will have a great chance to go very far in the playoffs. With Kobe, anything is possible.

Lets just hope they get a center or two.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

For all of those people assuming the Lakers will go far in the playoffs, I just don't see it. They are still a few years away from that. They just don't have the overall talent or balance do seriously contend for a title. Start with the playoffs and then go from there.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

I'd be highly surprised if Kobe ever won another championship. Duncan, KG, and J-O are going to be better than him for the next 4 years, and after that he has to contend with LeBron, Mello, and maybe Darko, maybe Curry, maybe Kwame.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> I'd be highly surprised if Kobe ever won another championship. Duncan, KG, and J-O are going to be better than him for the next 4 years, and after that he has to contend with LeBron, Mello, and maybe Darko, maybe Curry, maybe Kwame.


Jermaine O'Neal is not better than Kobe Bryant. If he is, please tell me why. Don't just leave it at that. Provide an in-depth analysis.


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## brazys (Jul 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> I'd be highly surprised if Kobe ever won another championship. Duncan, KG, and J-O are going to be better than him for the next 4 years, and after that he has to contend with LeBron, Mello, and maybe Darko, maybe Curry, maybe Kwame.


First of all, NBA is not individual competition. You got to have depth, defensive and offensive system, players who could take over a game aka stars to seriously compete. Examples of last year Detroit Pistons and Orlando Magic shows what I mean.

I won't start questioning your picks for future stars (although players like Kwame Brown or Darko Milicic have a lot of room to grow to make at least somewhat impact on NBA first), but I doubt your presumption that overall level of talent and competetiveness in NBA will grow and that will be a reason Kobe won't win another championship as you suggest. 

Kobe will definitely have to prove he can carry a team on his shoulders and I have no doubt he will do whatever he is capable of to succeed at it. His motivation and hunger for glory is on the edge of manic proportions and I can't wait to see how much of a difference maker Kobe really is. We can count on his 100% dedication to it.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Jermaine O'Neal is not better than Kobe Bryant. If he is, please tell me why. Don't just leave it at that. Provide an in-depth analysis.


I don't have to talk about who's better statistically, because I'm talking about who's more likely to win championships. I don't think there is any argument that a dominant PF is more important to winning championships than a dominant SG.

But forget about J-O for a minute, because in order to play him he first has to get out of the west. I think we can immediately dismiss the chances of a Kobe-led Clippers or Lakers beating the Spurs or Wolves in the next two years. That brings us to '06 and Kobe is now 27. The Spurs and Wolves will likely still be solid teams, but Duncan and KG will now be in their 30s so maybe Kobe can take them at this point. That's a big maybe, but for argument sake let's assume that he can. Now he has to deal with a more mature Yao+T-Mac combo. If K-Mart signs with Denver then Melo+K-Mart can be deadly here in a couple of years. Then the Jazz is going to have a better Kirilenko who'll be a top 2 or 3 all-around player. He'll have Boozer and Okur with him who'll probably both improve somewhat. Remember, Kobe still has average guys around him either way. He's not going to have anyone better than a borderline all-star on his team.

Kobe's going to have to pull off some Michael Jordan like feats to get out of the west in the next 5 years. If somehow he manages to do so, then he'll run into Detroit who's already shut him down, J-O who's still getting better. Then in about 4 years the east will have LeBron who's a for sure star, plus guys like Darko, Curry, and Kwame who, if they turn out to be stars, will have a better chance of winning than Kobe simply because they're a big man (and Kobe's best big man will be Odom, who's more of a SF anyways).

I simply don't see Kobe winning anymore championships. To do so I think he'd have to be a dominant player in the NBA well into his mid 30s.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> This is now his team. Obviously, it isn't perfect but he's got some talent to work with and he finally gets a chance to lead a team on his own. This season will prove just how good Kobe really is. Obviously, I don't expect him to win a championship. The Lakers won't come close for a few more years. However, I do expect him to lead this team into the playoffs. Anything less than that is unacceptable. In Odom, Grant, Butler, and Payton the Lakers have some talent to work with. If he can't muster 45 wins out of this squad then I'm going to have to call his *leadership ability *into question. Whether he likes it or not, people are going to judge his greatness based on how the Lakers perform from here on out. Besides, he's partly responsible for creating this situation so I'll have no sympathy for him if he fails. No more excuses.
> 
> BTW, I think he's going to succeed.


Kobe Bryant as a leader of a team is a thought that makes my spine shiver...
And i could be wrong, but i don´t think Kobe knows anything about "leadership ability"...


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bballlife</b>!
> I think the Lakers will win 50-55 games. I think that will have a great chance to go very far in the playoffs. With Kobe, anything is possible.


50-55 wins? No way.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> I'd be highly surprised if Kobe ever won another championship. Duncan, KG, and J-O are going to be better than him for the next 4 years, and after that he has to contend with LeBron, Mello, and maybe Darko, maybe Curry, maybe Kwame.



Are you joking me?? I will bet you any amount of money you want that Kobe will win another NBA Championship. 

ANY AMOUNT. RIGHT NOW.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PauloCatarino</b>!
> 
> 
> Kobe Bryant as a leader of a team is a thought that makes my spine shiver...
> And i could be wrong, but i don´t think Kobe knows anything about "leadership ability"...



I don't think you know much about Kobe. Everyone knows this is his ship now, and they will fall in line. His teammates know what he can do on the court, and that he will lead them.

Kobe has great leadership skills, they simply have been shadowed and tarnished by Shaq among others, over the years.

Now Shaq is gone, Kobe will lead the Lakers to more titles. 

Mark my word.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bballlife</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Ok, i'll mark your words. You can say Kobe will show leadership but he hasn't shown any leadership since he came into the league and actually showed a lot of anti-leadership in refusing to conform to the Lakers system with everyone knowing that Shaq was the guy there.

And Kobe can be as great a player as he wants to be, but he's still going to need the right players around him to ever be able to win another ring. And right now, the Lakers arent going to have a whole lot of room to improve for the next few years.


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

No Shaq in LaLa Land means End of an Era.

:sigh:


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

I think Odom will be like Darell Armstrong previously who played with Orlando.

He will be the leader but Kobe will be the scorer.

Without Odom he wont win IMO.

Kobe is going to be like PP who needs a another Allstar to succeed in the playoffs.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Are you joking me?? I will bet you any amount of money you want that Kobe will win another NBA Championship.
> 
> ANY AMOUNT. RIGHT NOW.


You act like winning championships is easy. It's not. It's extremely difficult. Of course it's possibly for Kobe to win a championship, but it will be extremely difficult in the future unless he teams up with another superstar since the west not getting any easier, and the east getting tough as well.

Maybe instead of making condescending statements and trying to make unnecessary long-term bets with people you've never met you should instead provide reasons to believe Kobe can win championships in the future.

LB26matrixns has already provided many reasons to believe that the Lakers are going to have a tough time winning for most of the decade. Clippers could possibly provide a slightly easier path, but more than likely he's staying with the Lakers. Give me reasons to think Kobe will win another championship.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Call me pessimistic, but I'll believe this team can succeed when I see it. The Lakers have 3 swingmen as their best players, one being forced to play PF, which I admit he can play effectively, but it's still out of position. The Lakers really don't have a reliable post option now, I don't count Odom because he's too perimeter oriented for me, and Grant gets most of points from mid-range jumpers. The Laker's 3 best scorers now all shoot a poor percentage from the floor(43% for Odom, 38% for Butler and 43.8% from Kobe). They no longer have a guy who you can rely on to always be able to get points at will, and make a good majority of his shots that they had in Shaq. Kobe got a lot of the glory for doing it in the 4th quarter, but Shaq isn't there to carry the team for 3 quarters and keep them in the game for Kobe to come through in the 4th quarter. Subsequently, Kobe will be forced to exert more energy on the offensive end throughout the game, and his defense will suffer this season. Again, I'm not ready to write the Lakers off, but I'll believe that they can go far into the playoffs, or even make the playoffs when I see it.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> Call me pessimistic, but I'll believe this team can succeed when I see it. The Lakers have 3 swingmen as their best players, one being forced to play PF, which I admit he can play effectively, but it's still out of position. The Lakers really don't have a reliable post option now, I don't count Odom because he's too perimeter oriented for me, and Grant gets most of points from mid-range jumpers. The Laker's 3 best scorers now all shoot a poor percentage from the floor(43% for Odom, 38% for Butler and 43.8% from Kobe). They no longer have a guy who you can rely on to always be able to get points at will, and make a good majority of his shots that they had in Shaq. Kobe got a lot of the glory for doing it in the 4th quarter, but Shaq isn't there to carry the team for 3 quarters and keep them in the game for Kobe to come through in the 4th quarter. Subsequently, Kobe will be forced to exert more energy on the offensive end throughout the game, and his defense will suffer this season. Again, I'm not ready to write the Lakers off, but I'll believe that they can go far into the playoffs, or even make the playoffs when I see it.


This is a great point! When your two best players both shoot 43% you're screwed.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

Kobe would have to play better than almost anyone ever has for this team as it is now to have a shot at winning a ring, which wont happen.

I can't see Odom being as effective at PF in the West as he was in the East. The West is just loaded with great PFs and he isnt really a natural one. 

And the Lakers big men crew is nearly as bad as Orlando's last year. They've got Brian Grant and .... well, thats it. Even if Malone comes back he is only good for stretches and would probably break down again. So then who? Brian Cook? Luke Walton at PF (haha)? How about Slava?


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

Excellent analysis hobojoe. Sounds pretty accurate to me.


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## LB26matrixns (May 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> Kobe would have to play better than almost anyone ever has for this team as it is now to have a shot at winning a ring, which wont happen.
> 
> I can't see Odom being as effective at PF in the West as he was in the East. The West is just loaded with great PFs and he isnt really a natural one.
> ...


The Lakers starting lineup is going to have to be:

Grant
Medvedenko
Odom 
Bryant
Payton

Think about it. You CANT play Odom at the four in the west. Who would he guard up front on the Spurs? Nesterovic? NO. Duncan? NO. Wolves? Suns? Kings? Even the Nuggets. You telling me this guy could guard Camby OR Hilario? No way....and night after night?


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> The Lakers starting lineup is going to have to be:
> ...


I doubt they go with that lineup. I would expect them to run Odom at PF no matter how undersized he is and run Butler at SF.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

In his defense, Odom has really started hitting the weights lately. He was more cut than I've ever seen him last year. He might be even bigger this year. It's possible that he could be a decent-sized PF when everything is said and done. Sure, he'll never be built like Brian Grant or Karl Malone. I think he'll get to a point where he's not a complete liability on the defensive end, though. Plus, he'll be a nightmare to match up with on the offensive end with his quickness and ball handling skills.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LB26matrixns</b>!
> 
> 
> This is a great point! When your two best players both shoot 43% you're screwed.


As Indiana was screwed with their two best players shooting 43% last season(Jermaine O'Neal- 43%, Ron Artest- 42%). They sure struggled all season en route to winning 61 games.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

i definitely notice odom was significantly bigger last year. his shoulders were pretty ripped and big. it's on a pretty slim frame though. but he's definitely been working out.

the key, and it's a key to almost all teams, will be how they can do on the boards, and interior defense. and while kobe can help there, and is good for his position, he'll have limited power over that. 

if they can defend the paint, and rebound the ball, they'll be very difficult to play against. those are big iff's with their current makeup.


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## Sir Magic (Jul 14, 2003)

I would be surprised if bean bryant's team even make it to the playoff.
c'mon look at it grant and odom job will not be easy. That being said it dosent makes kobe job even easier.

suns can get above the lakers this year coming. kObe leadership skills were displayed when shaq got injured 2 yrs ago. Yes his chances of getting the scoring title is big but chances of getting his team over .500 is slim


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IAMGREAT</b>!
> 
> 
> <strike>You're a complete bigot. </strike> (Namecalling is not tolerated here. Don't do it again.) :nonono:
> What the hell is '...the fundamentals of Luke Walton'?


IAMGREAT, you know I wanted to name myself as IAMGREAT as well, but that was 15 years ago when I was 10 years old.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> You act like winning championships is easy. It's not. It's extremely difficult. Of course it's possibly for Kobe to win a championship, but it will be extremely difficult in the future unless he teams up with another superstar since the west not getting any easier, and the east getting tough as well.
> ...


What? Come on, I think your statement was way off, and really didnt have much to it. _Kobe's not gonna win cause there are a ton of good players in the league_ Come on, I need a little more than that.


How do I act like winning championships is easy? Cause I said Kobe will win one for sure? I am confident in his ability thats all. 

There is a simple answer to this though. Greatness.

Greatness finds a way to win. Kobe has greatness.

So what if he has a ton of tough teams to beat, thats obvious.
Any champion will have to do that.

Kobe is a proven winner.
He will get it done.

15 years ago I would have bet any amount of money that MJ would win a title, and now I feel the same with Kobe. He is going to do it, trust me.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> In his defense, Odom has really started hitting the weights lately. He was more cut than I've ever seen him last year. He might be even bigger this year. It's possible that he could be a decent-sized PF when everything is said and done. Sure, he'll never be built like Brian Grant or Karl Malone. I think he'll get to a point where he's not a complete liability on the defensive end, though. Plus, he'll be a nightmare to match up with on the offensive end with his quickness and ball handling skills.


Ya as soon as Odom got to Miami, he hit a strong lifting program and put on more than 10 pounds of muscle.

I think 5-10 more would help him even more with all those great PF's in the west. 

His shoulders blew up last season.


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