# With all this new talent, ideally, what is the future lineup of this team?



## SKLB54 (Oct 13, 2002)

With Milos and Lampe now added to the team, I think I can safely say that the Suns have the most foriegn talent than any team. Yet, unfortunatly four of the potential stars play the same position, Lampe and Zarko, and Milos and Barbosa.

Now, just because Lampe and Zarko play the same position (F/C), this doesnt mean that they are relatively the same player as most of we know. For those that dont, Lampe plays like a huge SG from what I've heard from the summer leagues. He likes to play the perimeter, but he still can play the post. He must learn that he needs to improve as a post player. Zarko, on the other hand can play all over the court, but doesnt have the potential Lampe has.

Im thinking:

C: Lampe
PF: Amare
SF: Marion
SG: Johnson
PG: Milos

or im starting to like the Milos at the 2 and Barbosa at the 1 idea


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

This year - 

PG - Barbosa
SG - JJ
SF - Marion
PF - Amare 
C - Lampe?

I've heard they are going to use Lampe at C. I think they have pretty much given up on this season, so I think they might as well. I think Lampe could use some time in the post as well.

Next year, ideally, the Suns would like to see - 

PG - Barbosa/ Vujanic
SG - Kobe
SF - Matrix
PF - Amare
C - Vlade?/Pavel?/Lampe?/ Robert Swift?

Center will be a big question mark next year.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

If we could sign Vlade and start him while we develop Podkolzine, that would be an ideal situation for our big men. Vlade still has a couple solid years in the tank. I also question Lampe's toughness/mentality to play center. He definitely strikes me as a Nowitzki-type player, both offensively and defensively. I only got to see him twice (summer league), but those were my impressions of Maciej.

I think for us to be the most successful team we can be, we do need to get Kobe, turn Barbosa into a distributing point guard, have a VERY solid draft this year, and get the high quality role-players coming off the bench as well, like a Rex Chapman his first year in Phoenix, or a Malik Rose type-enforcer, to go along with our offensive cogs off the bench like Zarko and Lampe..


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Sovereignz</b>!
> If we could sign Vlade and start him while we develop Podkolzine, that would be an ideal situation for our big men.


I think that would probably be the ideal situation. I think if we can get either Vlade or Milos, we can get the other.

I agree w/ Lampe. He is perimeter-oriented. It looks like they'll have to shackle him to the paint to get him there a la Darko.


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

To me the future is very, very unclear. Only Amare is considerably 'untouchable' from trades and that is compare to his teammates. Usually when a team has a bunch of young but raw players with huge potentials, only 2 or 3 of them would remain with team after 3 years. The others were either never panned out; bolted because of 'lack of playing time'; or got traded in a package for better talents.

One thing is for certain: If the Suns can't get any marquee FA next summer, or the summer after next, I wouldn't be suprised most or even all of the players get moved. Ideally, you have a core of 5, 6 players to develope but realistically, you can't endured 3, 4 super-bad seasons to let the kids developed. At some point, fans would get mad and managers would get pressed to make changes.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

Barbosa, Amare, and Z should see the end of their rookie contracts in PHX. Those three shouldn't be going anywhere. However, I have a feeling that Marion may be the next casualty.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>RebelSun</b>!
> I have a feeling that Marion may be the next casualty.


I feel the same way. Shawn is such an amazing talent, but I don't know if they want his contract considering the direction the team is going right now. It doesn't help that the franchise is so high on Zarko, and he might have a future in the NBA at the three.. I wouldn't like to see Shawn traded, but if we shipped him, I can't say I'd be all that surprised.. 

If they do decide to trade him, all I have to say is we better get something damn good in exchange, because if we don't there are going to be a lot more angry Suns fans.


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## SKLB54 (Oct 13, 2002)

Okay, before the Suns fans get a little too idealistic, it should be known that Pavel is a top 3 choice, and both the Suns and the Knicks are too good of teams to fall into that category. I'm guessing the Suns will have somewhere around the 6th and 7th pick. That being said, the Suns have 2 weaknesses, SG and C. Fortunatly this draft brings 2 answers. Sergei Monya and Kosta Perovic. So from what I see, the ideal lineup will be the deepest in the league, something along the lines of:

C: Perovic/Lampe/Cabarkapa
PF: Amare/Cabarkapa/Lampe
SF: Marion/Lampe
SG: Monya/Vujanic
PG: Barbosa/Vujanic

This team has enough size and skill to be considered championship quality. Considering this doesnt include the marquee free agent that the Suns are able to sign this off-season, this is one hell of a team. Divac is a possibility, Stromile is a low budget possibility, Kukoc would be a good backup and influence... Hell we may have the money to sign em all... or go after Kobe.


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## Arclite (Nov 2, 2002)

With this trade I truly think we will get a top 5 pick. The center situation needs to be addressed, Pavel is our best shot. But even if we draft him, he might (probably won't) be ready to start, especially considering we're becoming such an up and down team.. I don't think Stro has the bulk to play C against a guy like Shaq.. but neither does little Jake I guess.. I wouldn't be afraid for us to go after Stro and run him and Amare in the frontcourt if we couldn't get Kobe..


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Stay away from Podkolzine and more euros. We have enough, at least for now.

Especially Pavel who is an absolute scrub. He is a scrub in europe nothing else.
Even if he would turn out to be decent. The Suns could never make use of a slow 7'5 something stiff.

Perovic? Lampe was clearly superior to him in the junior tournament and won MVP honors in the summer.


I am counting on the Knicks and Suns pick, we might get the Cavs pick as well but don't count on it.

I want

Howard/Okafor as the big guy options

or

Smith/Deng as the perimeter options

I want Iguodala no matter what.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Perovic? Lampe was clearly superior to him in the junior tournament and won MVP honors in the summer.


I am not very high on Perovic. I don't like skinny Cs that are over 7'0. He needs to put on some weight; he should be at least 255-260lbs. I do like Lampe, though, and am interested to see him play for the Suns this year and hopefully find his niche w/ PHX.


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## PhatDaddy3100 (Jun 16, 2002)

Honestly i Like Amare at C over Lampe, even though it really doenst matter. But honestly, any night whenw ed ont play LA or HOuston, Amare can play C. So if we can go get a guy like Okafor, we gotta. Okafor and Amare would give us a great frontcourt and shot blocking ability. And i think JJ is our future at the 2. Now with Marbury gone, he has shown he can score, he just needs the ball. This guy has a lot of offensive talent and plays good d. Marion probably will be traded cuz even though he is leading hte team in points and rebounds, he just isnt playing that good right now. His shots are falling and neither are his threes. I like Marion, but he just may not be worth the contract we gave him.


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## Matrix (Dec 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RebelSun</b>
> I have a feeling that Marion may be the next casualty.


Surely not... :no:


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## SKLB54 (Oct 13, 2002)

> I do like Lampe, though, and am interested to see him play for the Suns


to find out more about Lampe, look through the Knicks forums way back to find out info on his summer league play.

Supposedly he played like a huge SG, prefering to play on the perimeter, but was learning a post game. So far, that doesnt sound good for a west coast center, but Lampe's ability to learn and talent combined could make Lampe a very talented C/F.



> he should be at least 255-260lbs


Lampe, at age 18, is 245 lbs, not bad considering he's beginning to adapt to the post game (meaning he'll add weight.) I know you were talking about Kosta, but I felt that should be noted anyway.

About Kosta, hes very raw but he's one of those projects that could pay off big time... 7 foot 4 big time. Supposedly he can already make an impact on the defensive side, but his offensive game is under work. Again, these guys are young, and you can see it. If Kosta looked like he does now, but was 260 lbs, he'd be overweight, but as he ages and adapts to the American game, he'll add muscle and weight.

Another note, the player the suns are pretty high on now, Zarko, is 225 lbs. So dont let him be an exception to critiziscm.




> MVP honors in the summer


I hope your not talking about his summer league play, although he did play well, IMO he got lucky making that team. There were more credible centers available.




> LA or HOuston


Yao and Shaq are not the only big 7 footers, in fact any team with a center 7+ feet, 250+ lbs proposes a mismatch for Phoenix, a mismatch that could be corrected during the draft.



> Stay away from Podkolzine and more euros. We have enough, at least for now.


The Suns have the best European scouts in the league, I'll leave it up to them to decide whether or not they need another european player.



> And i think JJ is our future at the 2


He's really developing into a good scorer and passer, but the fact remains that Phoenix needs a shooter with range, and Sergei Monya can hit 3's and also drive it. Also another good thing about Monya is that he's ready to play immediatly, he's no prospect, just a good player.

Drafting Deng and Smith as perimeter players... but Marion plays the 3... so Im guessing you plan on trading Marion. Not that Im saying its a bad idea, as of right now i dont agree with it, but i see the logic behind it.



Oh and no mention of Kukoc, I definatly think Kukoc will be a sun next year and provide the guidance Milos, Zarko, Lampe, Kosta, and Sergei need. Also, when Toni is on, he's good for 20+ points.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Lampe is 7'0 270lbs and still expected to grow.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Lampe is 7'0 270lbs and still expected to grow.



Is he really 270? I thought that was a typo on the Suns website. The last I heard he was around 245 or so.

Zarko is very skinny and needs to put on weight. 230 is very slim at 6'11, regardless of what position you play.

Kosta is 7'4? I thought he was around 7'2. I don't know much about him, but as new information comes, I may change my opinion of him. 7'4 is huge.


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## SKLB54 (Oct 13, 2002)

That 270 lbs is un official, no matter what site it came from, before the draft, he came in at around 240. Unless if he became fast friends with James Lang on Draft night, I dont see that as being possible.

about Lampe being expected to grow, yes he is eight-teen and theres always the chance that he still has an inch or two to go.


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RebelSun</b>!
> 
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> ...



In the early 90s, David Robinson was listed at 235, and we all know he is 7'1.... not skinny, David was probably one of the most muscular and chiseled body in NBA history. Not as "big" as Malone and other bulky players, but David was definitely ripped with muscles.... yet only 235.


Makes me believe, Zarko is actually lighter than 230... he looks like he is 215-220. That 230 figure might be "adjusted" so he can play PF.


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## Nugglife (Jun 10, 2003)

Lampe is 275. I was on the Knicks website, and in an interview he said that he was weighing in at 280. 

One thing that Isiah was worried about was that Lampe had gained too much weight and wasn't hitting the weights enough. 


I heard of gaining a Freshman 10, but a Freshman 30?


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>1 Penny</b>!
> In the early 90s, David Robinson was listed at 235, and we all know he is 7'1.... not skinny, David was probably one of the most muscular and chiseled body in NBA history. Not as "big" as Malone and other bulky players, but David was definitely ripped with muscles.... yet only 235.


David had an excellent physique and was very trim, but was not muscular (big). He always suffered in banging. He was a finesse player, not a banger. 235 at 7'1 is very skinny; he didn't have much lower-body strength. He had back problems because he was not very strong and took all that abuse in the post. David was much more of a gazelle than a bull.


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## PhatDaddy3100 (Jun 16, 2002)

alright, i saw Lampe from 12 rows from the court, and he did not look 280, ,he looked a solid 240-250. Lampe got to play against the spurs this friday, he didnt do much, but what i saw is that he does play like a young player, and that he is very quick and fast for man his size. He has a very well builty body, unlike Zarko. The only question how are his skills....


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RebelSun</b>!
> 
> 
> David had an excellent physique and was very trim, but was not muscular (big). He always suffered in banging. He was a finesse player, not a banger. 235 at 7'1 is very skinny; he didn't have much lower-body strength. He had back problems because he was not very strong and took all that abuse in the post. David was much more of a gazelle than a bull.


David was and IS muscular. But your right he was not a banger, he had huge muscular arms but trim body. He was very light for his height, but he was pretty ripped with muscles.

As I stated, he's not Bulky muscular, but he was ripped.






























As you can see, he's pretty muscular...


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## Chasemeifucan (Jun 27, 2003)

I want Iguodala and Hassan Adams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Joe Johnson #2 (Jan 23, 2004)

Wow Robinson is ripped. But on Lampe we still need to see him play. more


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>1 Penny</b>!
> 
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I may have gone a little far saying he was not muscular. He was cut, but just was not big mass-wise. His muscles look extra large because his body fat is so low. Put him next to Karl Malone or Jahidi White (who are very muscular) and David looks like a toothpick. Although Karl is an exception, that was my definition of muscular. I think I would call David trim before I called him muscular.

I guess it just depends on what your definition is. The first thing that comes to mind (to me) w/ David is trim, and w/ Karl, muscular.

No knock on David, I would love to have that physique :yes: I probably have more respect for him than any other athlete. The charity work he does is simply awesome; class individual.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

Good posts. I have a couple comments and questions. What happens to JJ if Kobe is signed? Is he capable of moving over to the 3? 

and my comment about Lampe is this. If hes 280, thats a GREAT thing. That means he has a wide body, big bones and a huge frame. Some guys like Drob, no matter how much weight training they do, they will never be huge because they have a skinny frame. Guys like Curry, who dont look that muscular can push around guys like Drob even if they havent trained in the weight room as much. Guys with huge frames, who do hit the weight room hard can end up like Shaq. Huge frame and a ton of muscle. 

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/maciej_lampe/index.html?nav=page

They have him listed at 240 though, I just checked.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

I am sure JJ and Kobe can play PG and SG. Both of them are really good playmakers and both of them are very good defenders.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

I dont think Kobe or JJ can run the point. Kobe could do it partially in LA because the triangle doesnt require a natural point. I think making either JJ or Kobe run the point takes away from their scoring abilities. Neither of them have PG-like passing skills either. They arent bad passers, but not good enough to be the official distributor. 

It would be more realistic if JJ could slide to the 3.


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## SKLB54 (Oct 13, 2002)

> It would be more realistic if JJ could slide to the 3


Hence the Marion trade ideas...


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> I dont think Kobe or JJ can run the point. Kobe could do it partially in LA because the triangle doesnt require a natural point. I think making either JJ or Kobe run the point takes away from their scoring abilities. Neither of them have PG-like passing skills either. They arent bad passers, but not good enough to be the official distributor.
> 
> It would be more realistic if JJ could slide to the 3.


They are both better passers than Barbosa at this point and our offense works just fine.

We are playing motion offense, we don't need a PG who controls the ball.


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> 
> 
> They are both better passers than Barbosa at this point and our offense works just fine.
> ...


But you need a guy who can consistently bring the ball pass half-court and initiate the offense. Kobe and Joe are too similar because they ideally should not be the one who's initiating the offense. Look at LeBron @ Cleveland as real case example. LeBron (or Kobe or Joe) would have less pressure if he does not have the PG responsibility. He is a swingman who works best with a PG who can find them on half-court set as early as possible as well as on the right place. But don't ask them to bring the ball upcourt all the time.

On site note, I suspect Joe will once again became inconsistent when he's not getting the ball much. With Kobe, Joe will fell to 3rd option, which is where he were before the Starbury trade.


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## Peja Vu (Jun 9, 2002)

Marion and Johnson are trying to recruit Camby:

http://www.indystar.com/articles/1/114739-4071-039.html


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## Joe Johnson #2 (Jan 23, 2004)

Yeah i heard about that. I don't like it though. To much money for an injury prone player


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

They should go after Keon instead.


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## 1 Penny (Jul 11, 2003)

Well, if it comes down to Suns wanting/needing an atheleti shot blocker at the middle.

-Theo Ratliff
-Marcus Camby
-Keon Clark


Imagine if we can court 2 or all 3 of them.
We can probably device a line up that will allow the following

C: Camby/Ratliff/Lampe
PF: Stoudemire/Clark/Lampe
SF: Marion/Cabarkapa/Lampe
SG: Johnson/Marion/Jacobsen
PG: Barbosa/Vujnic/Johnson

But acquiring those players may lead to under-utilizing Amare... hence slowing his progress down.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>1 Penny</b>!
> Imagine if we can court 2 or all 3 of them.


I wouldn't mind all three.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

I bet they go after Keon...

Lets see.

- injured all season
- thin like a rail
- pot smoker

Mmm yeah right.

They will got after Keon not Kobe.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> I bet they go after Keon...
> 
> Lets see.
> ...


Obviously if Kobe wants to go the PHX, they'll take him first.

Keon is 6'11 w/ a 40" vert. The Suns could use him blocking shots and finishing.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Keon Clark doesn't have a 40" vertical. Get real.

Maybe 30 at the maximum.

Keon Clark sucks.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BigAmare</b>!
> Keon Clark doesn't have a 40" vertical. Get real.
> 
> Maybe 30 at the maximum.
> ...


Boo-yah - 

Keon Clark


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

What a reliable source....

There are maybe 10 players in the entire league with a 40" vertical and Clark isn't one of them.

The Suns won't sign Clark anyway.


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## SKLB54 (Oct 13, 2002)

> 40" vertical


Yea a lot of writers round up to 40 if its even in the ballpark because why not? This writer is obviously a Clark fan and is trying to sell magazines and a way to do that is to exagerate a player's abilities in an interview.



> Keon Clark sucks.


Thats harsh but i agree that he's very overrated amongst the people here at bbb.net.



> C: Camby/Ratliff/Lampe
> PF: Stoudemire/Clark/Lampe
> SF: Marion/Cabarkapa/Lampe
> SG: Johnson/Marion/Jacobsen
> PG: Barbosa/Vujnic/Johnson


Please be more aware of the european talent, Milos Vujanic is a very good player and a sure starter in the league, and Lampe is such a good talent, I doubt he'll ever be playing behind Zarko or Clark. Also a note about Vujanic, he'll probably play SG, and IMO, he'll be playing in front of Johnson because....



> I suspect Joe will once again became inconsistent when he's not getting the ball much. With Kobe, Joe will fell to 3rd option, which is where he were before the Starbury trade.


forget the Kobe part, once Amare is back 100%, do you think Johnson will still be #2? Once he falls back into his old self, Milos will come in next year and fix the problem.


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