# Kansas gets knocked off...



## TheChampion (Nov 28, 2004)

what a game!! texas tech pulled off the upset in double OT


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## Middy (Jul 16, 2002)

its great to see Texas Tech finally get a W against KU.

your avatar is giving me a seizure.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Best college game I've seen this year.

Congratulations to Coach Knight and the Red Raiders. I'm proud of that Dora kid, stepping up with that huge three at the end. Good job.


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

God, what a great game. And Tech really is a team to watch out for in the Tourney. I was rooting for the Red Raiders all the way in this game, and was glad to see them win. Look out in March cuz this team'll take it to ya.


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## ill subliminal (Apr 3, 2003)

Unless Gibson stays Tech looks like the best of the Big 12 next year. Oh well, it's not like we deserved to be #2. When the 4 teams that people actually think have a chance to win it all are Illinois, Wake, UNC, and Duke, you were probably a tad overrated to begin with.

JR is officially no longer a fan favorite.


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## TheChampion (Nov 28, 2004)

> your avatar is giving me a seizure.


 sorry  ... i'll change it... 



but anyways, it was a great win for them. i happened to only see the end of the first and second OT's so i am not going to comment much on the game, but tech has impressed me this year. i had no idea they would be any good. they handed KU their first loss in conference play. that sort of evens out the Big XII standings... 

updated conference standings...

1. Kansas 10-1 (20-2)
2. Oklahoma State 9-2 (19-3)
3. Texas Tech 8-3 (16-6)
4. Oklahoma 6-4 (17-6)
5. Texas 5-5 (16-7)
6. Iowa State 5-5 (13-8)
7. Texas A&M 4-6 (15-6)
8. Nebraska 4-6 (11-10)
9. Colorado 4-7 (13-10)
10. Kansas State 3-7 (13-8)
11. Missouri 3-7 (11-13)
12. Baylor 1-9 (9-12)


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## TheChampion (Nov 28, 2004)

**whoops... "triple" post**


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## TheChampion (Nov 28, 2004)

**if someone can delete these two useless messages, please do so** ... thanks


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

Wayne Simien really impressed me in this game, and all season long. He is money now from the 15 footer baseline shot, and is just a beast. Giddens really left me unimpressed in this game. I have loved the kid from day 1, but he never attacks the basket and when he is cold from outside, he is virtually a non-factor in the basketball game. Kansas is still one of my favorites to be in St. Louis. They have great back-court play in Langford and Miles, and Simien, IMO, is POY.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

First off, major props to Tech and its crowd tonight. That backcourt is absolute dynamite.



> Originally posted by <b>ill subliminal</b>!
> Oh well, it's not like we deserved to be #2.


Even after this loss, Kansas will still have the best RPI and SOS in the nation -- by a wide margin. It's fun to watch some people jump off bridges, though.



> JR is officially no longer a fan favorite.


Why? Because he went cold in the second half? KU wouldn't have been close in the first half had JR not nailed three of four from behind the arc (all at critical junctures). Seriously, why does fandom have to be so fickle?



P.S. texan, Simien's had that 15'-18' jumper since high school. I used to watch him nail them all the time at Leavenworth High School, just a few miles from where I live. Fran Fraschilla has apparently just recently figured out that Wayne can shoot, so he announces this fact as some sort of novelty every game he does now.


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## texan (Jul 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> 
> 
> And texan, Simien's always had that 15'-18' jumper. Fran Fraschilla has apparently just figured this aspect of his game out, so he announces it as some sort of novelty.



I don't watch too much Kansas basketball(maybe 6-8 reg. season games a year), so forgive me for my mistakes, but he IMO has improved his shot this year. Yes he has always had it, but to me(I may be wrong) it seems like this year he is more consistent with it this year.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> Even after this loss, Kansas will still have the best RPI and SOS in the nation -- by a wide margin. It's fun to watch some people jump off bridges, though.


So what your saying is because they have an RPI and SOS of 1 they are the best team in the country? It certainly doesnt help Illinois playing the likes of Longwood, Northwestern, Chicago State, but are 8-0 against Top 50 teams. RPI and SOS dont make that much sense honestly. 

With that said I'll shut up about that..

That was a very fun game to watch. Kansas is still good.. I wouldnt worry too much about this loss. 

I'll tell ya what.. 3 guards for Tech stepped up tonight and Tech won without an inside presence really against a very good Kansas team. 

Guards are gonna play a special role in this year's NCAA Tournament and I'm not gonna question it. It's a guard year!

Btw, I'll take Simien on my team any day of the week


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>texan</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> I don't watch too much Kansas basketball(maybe 6-8 reg. season games a year), so forgive me for my mistakes, but he IMO has improved his shot this year. Yes he has always had it, but to me(I may be wrong) it seems like this year he is more consistent with it this year.


Nah man, it's all good. I just hate how the fact-based analysis of some commentators pales in comparison to how loud or how frequently they state less accurate bits of analysis.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Brian34Cook</b>!
> 
> 
> So what your saying is because they have an RPI and SOS of 1 they are the best team in the country?


No, not really. What I'm saying is that KU's #2 ranking was (and perhaps still is) merited given the totality of schedule vis-a-vis the other top 5 teams. It's no big deal, but I do get a kick out of the bridge-jumpers.



> It certainly doesnt help Illinois playing the likes of Longwood, Northwestern, Chicago State, but are 8-0 against Top 50 teams. RPI and SOS dont make that much sense honestly.


Well, Kansas is 9-1 vs. RPI top 50 teams while #3 Kentucky (whom Kansas beat at Rupp without Simien) is 2-2, #4 UNC is 7-2 and #5 Wake is 8-2. So, like I said in my post above, KU's #2 ranking was (and perhaps still is) merited.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Giddens missed shot, after shot, after shot at the end of the game and in overtime....He should of gave the ball to Langford or Miles at the end of the game....I put a lot of the blame on him for the loss.....


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

This was apparently a travel:










Note: as this was taking place, the entire Texas Tech bench was shouting "Foul him! Foul him!"

FYI.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Honestly I thought it was a jumpball there (Kansas would have had possession right because of that stupid arrow?) but it could have been a foul.. At the same time he spun and tried to get outta that picking up his feet (I believe) which would result in a travel..

They could have called any of the 3 and they so happened to call a travel..


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Brian34Cook</b>!
> Honestly I thought it was a jumpball there (Kansas would have had possession right because of that stupid arrow?)


Jumpball would have been to Tech.



> but it could have been a foul.. At the same time he spun and tried to get outta that picking up his feet (I believe) which would result in a travel..


He didn't pick up his pivot foot until a good second and half had passed. I've watched the play about 6 times on tape now. Ross actually grabbed Miles' arm and shoved down, which partially instigated Miles' lifting his pivot foot.

Oh well, gotta give credit where credit's due. Tech's some tough sons 'a b!tches.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

Un-friggin'-believable. Just read that Miles has a black eye.



> It's really unfortunate," senior forward Wayne Simien said of the way the game ended. "I was right there. ... You can see his eye.
> 
> "I heard their coaches telling 'em to foul."


http://www.kusports.com/news/mens_basketball/story/113308


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## ill subliminal (Apr 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
> First off, major props to Tech and its crowd tonight. That backcourt is absolute dynamite.
> 
> 
> ...



Dude, JR plays no defense, and when he does he just jumps into the air every time does a weak pump fake.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ill subliminal</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, JR plays no defense, and when he does he just jumps into the air every time does a weak pump fake.


He didn't play great D tonight, but in regards to his last seven or eight games, the Kansas coaching staff would completely disagree with this sentiment. I've heard Jankovich laud JR's improved defense repeatedly on 610 AM over the last month, I've heard Dooley on 1320 AM saying the same things, I've heard Self on his show talk about it for minutes at a time.

He's not a great defender (yet), but he's by no means a bad one. I do realize it's incredibly easy from a fan's point of view to rag on this aspect of his game, however. It's just an easy thing to get mad at and stew about. Not very accurate, but somewhat cathartic.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

I did not see the game. The black eye certainly seems like good proof - it could be explained away on a jump ball call, where people pull away from each other causing inadvertent arm motions. Anyway I found the article amusing



> *The Jayhawks' players and coaches didn't cry foul after dropping their first league game in 11 contests * and their first double-overtime game since another thriller in 1997 versus Missouri. They merely explained their version of what happened at the end.
> 
> *"It's really unfortunate," senior forward Wayne Simien said of the way the game ended. "I was right there. ... You can see his eye.
> 
> ...


*

It's OK for players to be upset about this. it's amusing how this homer writer interprets these comments.*


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## ill subliminal (Apr 3, 2003)

All I know is that JR got schooled against Mizzou and cost me free tacos.


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## deranged40 (Jul 18, 2002)

Who did he get schooled by during the Mizzou game. The only person I can think of schooling anybody was Conley schooling Langford.


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

perhaps one of the best games this season. It sucks we lost. It sucked that I missed the first half due to Vday dinner with my wife. 


Personally I would rather ahve Lee at the end of the game than JR.

On the "Call" it could gone three ways. THat all I am going to say.

I love Coach Knight's comments



> Texas Tech coach Bob Knight had this to say about the call on Miles, who left the United Spirit Arena with an ice pack under his eye.
> 
> “What call?” Knight said. “I don't remember. I do remember one of our players getting his arms jerked down. I remember them pushing Zeno out of bounds on a drive. There are going to be mistakes. I'm not sure anyone but me could referee a perfect game.”


http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/10902062.htm


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## TheChampion (Nov 28, 2004)

kansas is down 4 at home to iowa state with just under 7 minutes to play... it looks like they just might get knocked off again


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## TheChampion (Nov 28, 2004)

its official... kansas is defeated at home by iowa state in overtime 63-61... curtis stinson hit the game winning shot with 5 seconds left in the extra period. he led the cyclones with 29 points...


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Iowa State just did it 63-61 in OT, with Stinson dropping 29 points. That win right there, if you were looking for a signature win, just got Iowa State into the tournament and if they can get to 10-6 or (dare I say) run the table to 11-5, they are looking at their seed rising very rapidly to a 4 or 5 seed.

Wayne Morgan has done a great job keeping this team together. Stinson is a tough SOB. Reppin the Bronx. 

Kansas has problems. Last possession settling for a Giddens 3?


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

If Iowa State could hit free throws like they hit clutch jumpers, that game would have been over a long time ago.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Its going to be interesting where Kansas and Duke are placed in the upcoming polls....I'm betting this hurts their chances of a number 1 seed....


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## Jonathan Watters (Jul 20, 2002)

WHY oh, freakin WHY does Wayne Simien not touch the ball at all in the last 5 minutes of regulation + OT? He's the only guy on the team that can create his shot, and the Jayhawks won't even give him the chance. I can't believe Bill Self would allow that to happen.

R Giddens is one of the worst supposedly good players I have ever seen. Does the guy ever hit a 3? I always see him forcing them early in the shot clock, and clanking them every time. 

As for Stinson, he's amazing. He can't shoot, but he still manages to get in the lane and float it up over people. If comes out, you'd have to think he's got a shot at the first round. He loves to attack and play physical, and that's going to get him somewhere in the league. 

That last shot was Wayne Simien's fault. You know Stinson is gonna take to the basket. If the guy you are guarding is picking the guy guarding Stinson, you HAVE to switch. HAVE to. It's pretty pathetic that he was able to get in the lane all night, considering he can't shoot and everybody in the gym and watching it on TV knew what was going to happen. Kansas made no adjustments whatsoever. 

Obviously the Jayhawks' press worked pretty well - why not continue it in OT? KU Fans - do you guys really think Bill Self is a good coach? He might as well have not been out there today...


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## kansasalumn (Jun 9, 2002)

I am a bit disappointed right now. Not going inside to Wayne during OT, JR not playing as he should. I am just in a piss off mood right now. And it not just because of the game.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

Iowa St. was just begging KU to take the game away from them, but even then KU couldn't capitalize. IIRC Simien didn't get the ball much at the end of the texas tech game either, despite them not having anyone who could hope to stop him.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Blame needs to go the "Floor General" Aaron Miles. Next time you start lauding him as one of the best PG's, remember that he was unable to get Wayne Simien the ball. He and Giddens are to blame.

Giddens has went from lotto pick potential to second round potential this year. Perhaps the most disappointing player in the conference. He has not shown any real improvement to his game,


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

Hong Kong Fooey said:


> Iowa State just did it 63-61 in OT, with Stinson dropping 29 points. That win right there, if you were looking for a signature win, just got Iowa State into the tournament and if they can get to 10-6 or (dare I say) run the table to 11-5, they are looking at their seed rising very rapidly to a 4 or 5 seed.


really? a 4 0r 5 seed? it's hard for me to see them getting that high up. but with this win at kansas, the win at texas, and the win over tech, iowa state is definately looking good to make the tournament as long as they can continue to play well in their remaining games that are all against teams that shouldn't make the tournament.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

rocketeer said:


> really? a 4 0r 5 seed? it's hard for me to see them getting that high up. but with this win at kansas, the win at texas, and the win over tech, iowa state is definately looking good to make the tournament as long as they can continue to play well in their remaining games that are all against teams that shouldn't make the tournament.


Keep in mind rocketeer, in the eyes of the committee the Cyclones would have ripped off 11 straight wins to end the regular season (from an 0-5 start) and more than likely a win (we'll say 1-1) in the Big 12 tournament. That would give them a 20-9 record going into the tournament. Now many times this has happened to teams where the hot streak coming into the tournament allows them to move up big time in terms of seeding. However, that's usually a reward from the committee rather than a true gauge of whether or not they deserve it. 

I think it's highly possible that they Clones get that, provided they do what I just mentioned. As soon as they got in the tournament though, they would be my pick to lose in the first round almost immediately due to being overseeded.


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## Ghost (Jun 21, 2002)

After this one I think it really helps out Iowa State in the eyes of the NCAA Selection Commitie. I think they now get in the tournment over a team like UAB.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

Hong Kong Fooey said:


> Keep in mind rocketeer, in the eyes of the committee the Cyclones would have ripped off 11 straight wins to end the regular season (from an 0-5 start) and more than likely a win (we'll say 1-1) in the Big 12 tournament. That would give them a 20-9 record going into the tournament. Now many times this has happened to teams where the hot streak coming into the tournament allows them to move up big time in terms of seeding. However, that's usually a reward from the committee rather than a true gauge of whether or not they deserve it.
> 
> I think it's highly possible that they Clones get that, provided they do what I just mentioned. As soon as they got in the tournament though, they would be my pick to lose in the first round almost immediately due to being overseeded.


yeah i understand. iowa state has been playing really well, i just don't see how they could actually deserve that seed. if they end up with a 4 or 5, i'd love to be the lucky 12 or 13 seed that gets to play them in the 1st round.


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## Ghost (Jun 21, 2002)

rocketeer said:


> yeah i understand. iowa state has been playing really well, i just don't see how they could actually deserve that seed. if they end up with a 4 or 5, i'd love to be the lucky 12 or 13 seed that gets to play them in the 1st round.



Iowa State is a Very good team. Curtis Stinston can take over a game by himself, he is the type of player that a team needs to go far into the NCAA Tournment, He can slash at will and finds his teamates.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

Kansas is down by 15 at the half to the Sooners. Looks like they are about to drop 3 straight.


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## Middy (Jul 16, 2002)

not so fast...

KU is down 1. Oklahoma might as well giftwrap this one.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

OU gets their act together and manages to hold on to win 71-63. First 3 game losing streak for the Jayhawks since 94, according to espn. At least they made a game out of it.


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Wow.. Kansas losing 3 games in a row isnt heard of often there.. This is sticky material.. Way to go Coach Self!! Enjoy yourself, please!


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Will Kansas keep their RPI ranking of #1 - based on the fact that this was a road loss they probably hang on, but its going to get close


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## TheChampion (Nov 28, 2004)

well they have a big game coming up sunday... maybe they were just looking ahead to their matchup with oklahoma state?  surely not, its would seem ridiculous to lose 3 games in a row because you are looking ahead to the 4th game... but there has to be a reason for playing this poorly. they are now 2nd in the Big XII standings... they will probably come out and beat the hell out of the cowboys, but if they show any signs of playing like they have been the past 3 games, it just may be 4 games in a row... i didn't think they would come into this game with any defeats in conference play, but they now have 3 losses, and they are back-to-back-to-back losses. i hope kansas comes to play on sunday. i was hoping for a full-strength kansas team, but they haven't shown that team for nearly 2 weeks. kansas needs to figure out what the hell is going on up there, and get their season headed back in the right direction, and a win sunday would do that for them...


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Aaron Miles is playing horrendous as of late....You cant expect to win any kind of game at the college with no production from Simien or Miles two of their best players...Oklahoma St. is going to take it to them on Sunday....


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

TheChampion said:


> but there has to be a reason for playing this poorly. they are now 2nd in the Big XII standings


They just aren't that great of a team, and now its catching up to them.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Brian34Cook said:


> Wow.. Kansas losing 3 games in a row isnt heard of often there.. This is sticky material.. Way to go Coach Self!! Enjoy yourself, please!



:bsmile: LOL! I was cruising this thread looking for the Champaign, Illinois contingent to do some Self slamming!


Not that there's anything wrong with that, once in a while...


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

I havent done any of that in a while.. I felt the need to have something to say this time around


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## JAYHAWK-81 (Jan 21, 2005)

Yah, this is getting quite discouraging...Feel like pulling out my hair every time I watch KU Play...Hopefully they are just shaking the cobwebs now. :no: 

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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

Oklahoma State just lost to Nebraska :no: 

Big 12 teams just don't win road games no matter who it is 

Kansas and Oklahoma State still tied though


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