# Phil Jackson on Bosh: if it's not tampering, what is?



## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...327&call_pageid=968867503640&col=970081593064

Let's hope Chris hates Kobe.


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## adhir1 (Dec 28, 2004)

i hate all this contract talk...it makes me nervous...


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

> The Los Angeles Lakers may be casting an eye on the Toronto Raptors top star.
> 
> In a comment that will surely raise eyebrows in the Raptors' front office, Lakers' coach Phil Jackson today suggested Chris Bosh is a guy who would look good in Hollywood.


Why is he making these type of comments? I swear the front office should file tampering charges so you guys can wrestle draft picks out of the Lakers behinds. I can't stand Phil!


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## Sporty G (Sep 19, 2004)

I would have expected more from Phil Jackson, you can't come into Toronto and then tell local reporters that you have already been thinking of stealing away their superstar as soon as he hits free agency. That doesn't sit well with anybody.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

While this talk does worry me, mainly because Bosh could take less money to play there, but would easily recouperate that difference with endorsement incentives, making money less of an issue in negotiations.

L.A has blatently let everyone know the players that they are going after in 2007. First it was Yao and Amare, but now that they are signed, they are now going after the the best available big out there in Bosh.

Surprised, no 

Worried, Hell ya


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

I think he would have to be saying we are going to try and sign Bosh. And I have a man crush on him, and Toronto smells bad. Thats MIGHT be considered tampering. Or if he was already negotiating the contract.


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## The Truth IV (Nov 3, 2005)

Let's think this through for a minute. If Bosh plays out the string and finishes 2007 in a Raptors uniform, the Lakers will be in a state of disarray. There is no way the Kobe / PJ relationship endures that long (I'm surprised they've gone this far without a blow-up. All the losing is getting to Kobe - he will meltdown and demand a trade before end of 2007. Lamar will flunk a drug test - Kwame may or not develop into a player. The Raps will have plenty of cap room in 2007 if I am believe all the capologists on this board - so why would Bosh want join what will be a major train wreck (2008 Lakers) when he could stay with a team that should be finally be a play-off contender?

Bosh is not a Hollywood guy - my real fear is that he joins a team in his home state (Texas) or college home (Atlanta) or even link up with buddies like Jarret Jack wherever that dude ends up.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

What do you guys think of Chris Mihm as a FA for us in another year? Also Nazr will likely not be re-signed in SanAnt. Mihm is an inconsistent rebounder but comes up with some big games. Can't see the Lakers resigning him.

DJ Mbenga in Dallas could be a player. Showed some promise last summer. A 2nd round pick they can't resign under the cap.

Also Andray Blatche is listed as a one year deal in WAS. As a second round pick they can only match to the MLE assuming they don't need that for other signings. Saw him one game in summer league and he is smooth with the ball. Clearly a SF type player.

A front line of Blatche at SF, with Villy and Bosh at 4/5 would be interesting. Need them to start blocking some shots because they would all get beat off the dribble big time.


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## foul_balls (Jun 25, 2004)

Can someone with better knowledge confirm something for me? Is the following correct?

Bosh has the option of accepting the qualifying offer of 1 yr (5.586 million) in 06-07 or accepting anything up to a max deal( which starts at around 12 million per for 5 years)? 

LA can sign Bosh after the qualifying offer in 07-08 for a 4 year deal up to the cap limit? If the cap is about 56 million in 07-08, LA can sign him for about 14 million (assuming they don't sign anyone else before 07-08). 

Toronto has the option of matching any offer LA gives before 06-07.

_Can Toronto still sign Chris if he accepts the qualifying offer and plays out 06-07? _ 

If the above is true, I am not so worried because we should definitely see some results by end of 06-07.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

Nazr is a pricey investment but is someone who would help a bunch.

Would you rather have Maglorie for ten a year or Mohammed for seven?


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

foul_balls said:


> Can someone with better knowledge confirm something for me? Is the following correct?
> 
> Bosh has the option of accepting the qualifying offer of 1 yr (5.586 million) in 06-07 or accepting anything up to a max deal( which starts at around 12 million per for 5 years)?
> 
> ...


Yes but then he is an unrestricted Free Agent meaning that we no longer have the right to match another offer. We still have the Bird Rights and can go over the cap to sign him, whereas other teams can only go up to cap, but he could choose to take another offer for less. We can't force him to sign with us.


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## speedythief (Jul 16, 2003)

foul_balls said:


> Can someone with better knowledge confirm something for me? Is the following correct?
> 
> Bosh has the option of accepting the qualifying offer of 1 yr (5.586 million) in 06-07 or accepting anything up to a max deal( which starts at around 12 million per for 5 years)?
> 
> ...


If he were to play for the QO he would become an unrestricted free agent after that year, like Stromile Swift. We could still sign him but we would be on even ground with the other NBA teams in terms of the deal we could offer him.


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## Thievery Corporation (Jul 2, 2005)

As long as our games are close, like they have been, I think Bosh would opt to stay in Toronto esp. with out young talent and incoming young talent.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

So, if Bosh only takes the qualifying offer for next year, that will probably speak volumes about where his mind is at, cause at that point he would rather play for 5 mil, than say 10+ million just to keep his options open.

Next question, what does the franchise do if Bosh does not sign an extension this year??

Do we roll the dice and hope he signs at the end of that year, knowing that he could walk for *NOTHING*, or do we see what we could get for him in a trade?


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## MangoMangoMango (Jan 23, 2004)

even if bosh decides not to stay in toronto...I dont think he will go to LA....he knows that playing along side Kobe will slow his development into being an all star.....


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Lakers can save up all the money they want; we'll match. 

On the flip side he's really just giving Chris credit as one of the great new players in the league.


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## charlz (Jun 9, 2003)

Kitty said:


> Why is he making these type of comments? I swear the front office should file tampering charges so you guys can wrestle draft picks out of the Lakers behinds. I can't stand Phil!


Agree just like all the idiots who have been trying to get leBron out of CLE after 1 year. Give it a rest and go get your own talent.


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## AirJordan™ (Nov 21, 2005)

MangoMangoMango said:


> even if bosh decides not to stay in toronto...I dont think he will go to LA....he knows that playing along side Kobe will slow his development into being an all star.....


exactly, if Kobe is still in a Lakers uniform in '08, and if Bosh signs with the Lakers in '08, bosh is gonna be the NUMBER 2 guy. Anyways Bosh is already an all-star.

But anyways, i doubt CB4 is gonna sign with the Lakers, the Raps will prolly resign him.


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## spinz (Aug 19, 2005)

i know the NBA has tampering rules...but people would be stupid to think that Bosh doesn't know he will have endless options in his FA year...

facts:

he's only 21
his name is being mentioned in the same ranks as Kevin Garnett...
he has a great attitude and work ethic
he's putting up big numbers on a young team...



so unless we try to shelter him from the rest of the world, by closing his eyes and covering his ears, i'm sure he reads local newspapers, watches espn, and talk to other players / coaches, so he already knows he has worth...other then being and EGO booster to get accalaid from Phil Jackson, Bosh didn't hear anything yesterday that he hasn't heard before...

not to resurect the dead,...but Phil's comments would be music to MB ears...


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

TRON said:


> So, if Bosh only takes the qualifying offer for next year, that will probably speak volumes about where his mind is at, cause at that point he would rather play for 5 mil, than say 10+ million just to keep his options open.
> 
> Next question, what does the franchise do if Bosh does not sign an extension this year??
> 
> Do we roll the dice and hope he signs at the end of that year, knowing that he could walk for *NOTHING*, or do we see what we could get for him in a trade?


 You've got the years mixed up a little. If we don't sign him to an extension this year, he'll be a RFA next year. THEN if we don't sign him, he can sign with another team and we can match. Or he can take the qualifying offer and then we'd be doing what you said the year after, not in 2007.


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

Budweiser_Boy said:


> You've got the years mixed up a little. If we don't sign him to an extension this year, he'll be a RFA next year. THEN if we don't sign him, he can sign with another team and we can match. Or he can take the qualifying offer and then we'd be doing what you said the year after, not in 2007.


Right. But usually the RFA matching ability is used by players in order to secure a larger contract. They look for a team to offer them more than their original team, forcing the original team to match. However for someone like Bosh who will be a max player, this isn't really an issue. I think it's unlikely the Raptors will try to lowball him. 

Bosh will not accept the qualifying offer. He won't have to. If he wants out, all he has to do is threaten to accept the qualifying offer, and the Raptors will be pretty much forced to work out a sign-and-trade. Losing Bosh for nothing is unthinkable.

Bottomline is, if he doesn't sign an extension this offseason it is a really bad sign.


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

Ballyhoo said:


> Right. But usually the RFA matching ability is used by players in order to secure a larger contract. They look for a team to offer them more than their original team, forcing the original team to match. However for someone like Bosh who will be a max player, this isn't really an issue. I think it's unlikely the Raptors will try to lowball him.
> 
> Bosh will not accept the qualifying offer. He won't have to. If he wants out, all he has to do is threaten to accept the qualifying offer, and the Raptors will be pretty much forced to work out a sign-and-trade. Losing Bosh for nothing is unthinkable.
> 
> Bottomline is, if he doesn't sign an extension this offseason it is a really bad sign.


Agreed , I'm sure we offer the max this offseason, and thats the best financial offer he can get anywhere /anytime.


EDIT: Just surfing around ESPN and they say they are having a chat with David Stern at 12:30 to take the "tough" questions.

Link: http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=10103

I just put this one in:


> Yesterday, Phil Jackson made comments about how Chris Bosh was a player that "you obviously had to take a look at", in terms of players he was interested in signing. Jackson didn't explicity say he was going to pursue him, but does this not constitute tampering as an attempt to "indirectly entice or induce or persuade or attempt to entice, induce or persuade" a player to sign?



So I thought if more than one of us ask's about that comment, we'd have a better chance of getting it addressed.


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## lakers9104 (Nov 11, 2005)

KOBE IS KING


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

Yeah that adds a lot to the discussion. Thanks.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

Maybe he's thinking of the Clippers going after Bosh... He's still be a Hollywood guy there, and he'd have a better shot at going somewhere with Brand and Maggette locked up.

-Petey


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Ballyhoo said:


> Bottomline is, if he doesn't sign an extension this offseason it is a really bad sign.


I'm not so certain about that. Remember, we can sign any of our own players and go over the cap. If we sign him in 2007 as a RFA, it gives us even more cap space to work with and sign free agents around him, than if he already had 10 or so million dollars commited to him from before. The only contracts on our books would be Alvin (around 7 mil), Hoffa if we use the team option (around 3 mil), Charlie (around 2 mil), Joey (around 2 mil), the two 2006 rookies (let's say around 5 mil total), and let' just say we use 5 mil of our MLE next summer. That's a total of $24 million in commited salaries, and will probably make us around $22 to $24 million under the cap. Looks a LOT better than around $12 to $14 under the cap, and gives us just a lot more flexibility.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

Budweiser_Boy said:


> I'm not so certain about that. Remember, we can sign any of our own players and go over the cap. If we sign him in 2007 as a RFA, it gives us even more cap space to work with and sign free agents around him, than if he already had 10 or so million dollars commited to him from before. The only contracts on our books would be Alvin (around 7 mil), Hoffa if we use the team option (around 3 mil), Charlie (around 2 mil), Joey (around 2 mil), the two 2006 rookies (let's say around 5 mil total), and let' just say we use 5 mil of our MLE next summer. That's a total of $24 million in commited salaries, and will probably make us around $22 to $24 million under the cap. Looks a LOT better than around $12 to $14 under the cap, and gives us just a lot more flexibility.


Actually that is not true, even if Bosh is unsigned to keep his bird rights you have to use a cap hold on him for the max possible amount he can sign for. That's like trading for rookies from the same rookie class, trading for all free agents of that year, letting them hit Free Agency, and then using all your cap space and then resigning your guys coming off rookie contracts and free agents with bird rights...

See what I mean?

The Clippers are under the cap year after year, and they couldn't pull that off, or even the Cavs and Sonics last year. You have to renounce bird rights to clear cap holds (if you are under the cap).

-Petey


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

Bosh has certainly improved IMO. All he needs to do is to be as aggressive on defense as he is on the offense.


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

It's not worth it. Unless we renounce Bosh, there will be a restricted FA cap hold of about $10.5 million on him, so we won't gain much flexibility. Just sign him ASAP.


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Ahh ok, I was unaware of that... my bad.


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## Unknownone (May 14, 2005)

CrookedJ said:


> Yeah that adds a lot to the discussion. Thanks.


Concur, but 16 is as 16 does - this part -



lakers9104 said:


> KOBE IS KING


- pretty much undermines any credibility whatsoever...


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## Crossword (Jun 7, 2002)

Unknownone said:


> Concur, but 16 is as 16 does - this part -
> 
> 
> 
> - pretty much undermines any credibility whatsoever...


Right, age is a great basis on which to judge a poster.


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## Benis007 (May 23, 2005)

What kind of dispensation is given for teams that tamper with other players.

Gimme draft pick


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by *Ballyhoo!*
> 
> Bosh will not accept the qualifying offer. He won't have to. If he wants out, all he has to do is threaten to accept the qualifying offer, and the Raptors will be pretty much forced to work out a sign-and-trade. Losing Bosh for nothing is unthinkable.


Bosh might only accept the qualifying offer if he is truely unsure about leaving Toronto, and wants another year to figure it out. This however should be unacceptable to an organization that has lost so many stars already, and they would likely be the party that starts the trade talks. This is clearly the path none of us want to go down.


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## osman (Jul 29, 2003)

TRON said:


> Bosh might only accept the qualifying offer if he is truely unsure about leaving Toronto, and wants another year to figure it out. This however should be unacceptable to an organization that has lost so many stars already, and they would likely be the party that starts the trade talks. This is clearly the path none of us want to go down.


If we offer Bosh the max he will stay. The primary reason most players take the qualifying offer is because they want more money, and think they can get it as free agents. Can a player risk a year of playing and getting seriously injured, and refusing max money? I would think not.


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

osman said:


> If we offer Bosh the max he will stay. The primary reason most players take the qualifying offer is because they want more money, and think they can get it as free agents. Can player risk a year of playing and getting seriously injured, and refusing max money? I would think not.


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## adhir1 (Dec 28, 2004)

Honestly i really am starting to think Bosh is going to bolt the first chance he gets...I no Bud_Boy "the all powerful CBA" will help us, but again there are ways players can get out of that..its a players league remember that! i mean by his interviews he does not seem at all convinced that this team is a player contender...and in all honesty...who knows whats going to happen...i dont see any players in the 07 crop that really intrigue me...the year after that is another story...but we want to be making a push by that time...and i no we can absorb salary, but which team are going to give up a player for a draft pick...or even just to get him off their books..those are most likely players who teams dont want...they arent going to give up really good talent just for the sake of having cap room....so i would prepare myself for that day that Bosh Bolts...because it prolly will happen...i wish it doesnt but it will....and plus he hasnt taken a liking to this city as much as Vince in his third season...u could preety much say for sure that Vince was going to resign here..he loved it here..and the people loved him even more...i dont no if that is tru with bosh yet


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## osman (Jul 29, 2003)

adhir1 said:


> Honestly i really am starting to think Bosh is going to bolt the first chance he gets...I no Bud_Boy "the all powerful CBA" will help us, but again there are ways players can get out of that..its a players league remember that! i mean by his interviews he does not seem at all convinced that this team is a player contender...and in all honesty...who knows whats going to happen...i dont see any players in the 07 crop that really intrigue me...the year after that is another story...but we want to be making a push by that time...and i no we can absorb salary, but which team are going to give up a player for a draft pick...or even just to get him off their books..those are most likely players who teams dont want...they arent going to give up really good talent just for the sake of having cap room....so i would prepare myself for that day that Bosh Bolts...because it prolly will happen...i wish it doesnt but it will....and plus he hasnt taken a liking to this city as much as Vince in his third season...u could preety much say for sure that Vince was going to resign here..he loved it here..and the people loved him even more...i dont no if that is tru with bosh yet


If we offer him the max he will stay. When was the last time a player refused to the max, when they were up for an extension? Kenyon Martin got traded because the Nets would not pay him max. Joe Johnson got traded because the Suns would not pay him the max. Jason Richardson, Zach Randolph, Pau Gasol, Richard Jefferson,...etc..etc...etc all got offered the max and stayed with their respective teams. Players do not turn down max extensions and risk a year of playing and getting injured, and losing it all. For example look at Amare, he is worth the max and wanted to stay in Phoenix so it makes no difference but lets say he did not want to play in Phoenix and took a qualifying offer. Lets assume hes never the same player after coming back from his injury. What kind of offer would he get in the free agent market? Its a huge risk refusing a max offer. I doubt Bosh refuses.

What could happen is we sign him to the max and then he asks for a trade. This way he still has his guaranteed contract.


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## ansoncarter (Dec 22, 2004)

Bluejays just added TWO premier free agents

I think by 2007 the raps could have a much brighter looking situation than the one those 2 pitchers signed into


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## adhir1 (Dec 28, 2004)

osman said:


> If we offer him the max he will stay. When was the last time a player refused to the max, when they were up for an extension? Kenyon Martin got traded because the Nets would not pay him max. Joe Johnson got traded because the Suns would not pay him the max. Jason Richardson, Zach Randolph, Pau Gasol, Richard Jefferson,...etc..etc...etc all got offered the max and stayed with their respective teams. Players do not turn down max extensions and risk a year of playing and getting injured, and losing it all. For example look at Amare, he is worth the max and wanted to stay in Phoenix so it makes no difference but lets say he did not want to play in Phoenix and took a qualifying offer. Lets assume hes never the same player after coming back from his injury. What kind of offer would he get in the free agent market? Its a huge risk refusing a max offer. I doubt Bosh refuses.
> 
> What could happen is we sign him to the max and then he asks for a trade. This way he still has his guaranteed contract.


when was the last time a player signed the max and his team was not playing well???


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## trick (Aug 23, 2002)

adhir1 said:


> when was the last time a player signed the max and his team was not playing well???


04-05, Portland Trail Blazers. I believe they put Randolph on the block a few weeks into the season too.


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## osman (Jul 29, 2003)

adhir1 said:


> when was the last time a player signed the max and his team was not playing well???



Elton Brand? Even though it was an offeer sheet from Miami, the Clips matched and he has been playing great there. That goes to show even if another team offered him and offer sheet, we can match and he would still be happy playing for us. Now the Clippers are a playoff team. I see the Raptors following the same path. They have a young core with Maggette, Brand, Kaman and Livingston. We have Bosh, Villeneauva, Graham, Calderon, Ukic, plus a top 3 pick this year.


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## TRON (Feb 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by *Osman !*
> 
> The primary reason most players take the qualifying offer is because they want more money, and think they can get it as free agents


Most of the time that is true, but in this case Bosh could end up with the same money Toronto could offer through the endorsement incentives he could recieve in a town like L.A. If we were talking about any team other than NY, LA and Chicago, then this would be a moot point, but since we are talking about L.A, it is still a valid point.

So if the money was the same, then you'd be evaluating playing in L.A vs. Toronto on a non-monetary basis 



> Can a player risk a year of playing and getting seriously injured, and refusing max money? I would think not.


I know this is what Bosh's financial advisers will be screaming, I hope he listens!!!


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## Q8i (Oct 23, 2004)

It Doesn't Matter To Me, If He Leaves Or Stays.. He's Still Gon Be One Of Ma Favorite Players.
...And If Bosh Leaves, That Will Show The League How Stupid The Raps Organization Is, And How Bad They Are. :boohoo:


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

Man I'm getting tired of having this silly argument. Is Bosh the kind of guy to turn down max money or demand a trade from the team that is obviously building around him as their franchise player? No, he's not; and it's not even close.


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

http://www.nba.com/news/lakers_051215.html

Justice?


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## Unknownone (May 14, 2005)

blowuptheraptors said:


> http://www.nba.com/news/lakers_051215.html
> 
> Justice?


Not really, BUTR - it's a pittance of a fine and the Lakers organization is absorbing the cost, not Jackson himself - if commissioners of leagues were like Dick Pound, fines in excess of $ 250, 000 + would be commonplace - _that_ would get the attention of those committing these trangressions, ensuring that the BS tactics Jackson has engaged in as of late would not be repeated...


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## butr (Mar 23, 2004)

Unknownone said:


> Not really, BUTR - it's a pittance of a fine and the Lakers organization is absorbing the cost, not Jackson himself - if commissioners of leagues were like Dick Pound, fines in excess of $ 250, 000 + would be commonplace - _that_ would get the attention of those committing these trangressions, ensuring that the BS tactics Jackson has engaged in as of late would not be repeated...


Ah, hence the "?".


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## Sporty G (Sep 19, 2004)

I just heard on ESPN Radio that Jackson and the Lakers had been fined. I was *VERY* pleased to hear it.


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## AirJordan™ (Nov 21, 2005)

Yeah, Phil Jackson has been fined $25 000 for the comments he made about Chris Bosh.


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