# Ron Artest - The most overrated player in the NBA



## Aphasia (Nov 27, 2005)

Time and again over the last six weeks these same few declarations have been made: 
Ron Artest is the best defender in the NBA.
Ron Artest is a top ten player in the League.
Ron Artest is a top twelve player in the League.
Ron Artest is definitely a top fifteen player in the League. 
Ron Artest is without a doubt better than Corey Maggette. 

Both Artest and Maggette were drafted the same year and the statistics break down as follows:

Corey Maggette: 425 games played...28 minutes per game...45% fg...33% 3pt...82% ft...4.8 rpg...2.0 apg...15.0 ppg. Corey has taken 10.4 shots per game 

Ron Artest: 368 games played...33 minutes per game...42% fg...32% 3pt...72% ft...4.8 
rpg...2.9 apg...14.6 ppg. Artest has taken 12.3 shots per game 

Two significant things stand out in those statistics; regardless of the reason for games missed Artest has played in 57 fewer games than has Corey and yet having played 5 fewer minutes per game Corey is a significantly better all around offensive player. And when taking in consideration their styles of play offensively and how Corey is a constant and aggressive threat then there really is no comparison to them offensively. 

Only the small minded rely on numbers to justify their reasoning. They say well Artest and Maggette almost cancel one another out offensively but Artest is without a doubt the better defender based purely on observation yet that same observation doesn't help them see just how effective and important an offensive player Corey is. 
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I do agree that Artest is a better defender than is Maggette, but how significant is the difference? Whoever continues to claim Ron Artest is the best defensive player in the NBA is simply a fool. Ben Wallace is the best defender in the NBA. AK-47 is easily the best perimeter defender in the NBA followed by Tayshaun Prince and Bruce Bowen. Ron Artest is a top ten defender in the League and yet is still the most overrated in this regard. 

Here again for those among you who only speak and comprehend in statistics is a look at each of the matchups Ron Artest has had this year. It will surely surprise all of you who claim he not only can score 20 ppg but locks his man down defensively, therefore giving his team a significant advantage every night.

Artest Defensively........... Artest Offensively

Hedo Turkoglu - 14 points........... 16 points + 2
Dwayne Wade - 31 points/10 assists......... 22 points - 9
Kyle Korver - 15 points/9 assists.......... 15 points =
Dwayne Wade - 29 points/11 rebs.......... 24 points - 5
Vince Carter - 18 points/8-13 fg.......... 30 points + 12
Michael Redd - 28 points........... 24 points - 4
Kareem Rush - 35 points......... 27 points - 8
Kareem Rush - 20 points.......... 8 points - 12
Derek Anderson - 13 points......... 24 points + 9
LeBron James - 19 points......... 21 points + 2
Corey Maggette - 15 points......... 22 points + 7
AK-47 - 7 points......... 8 points + 1
Shawn Marion - 21 points........ 12 points - 9
Darius Miles - 10 points......... 12 points + 2
Ray Allen - 25 points......... 30 points + 5
Dirk Nowitzki - 31 points........ 15 points - 16

So in all of his matchups this year he is - 23. A few notes on those games...Vince Carter at that time was very reserved offensively for some reason and he only took 13 shots that game. LeBron James struggled that game but struggled again a few weeks later when Artest was suspended. Corey had a great first half again Ron Ron but picked up silly fouls in the second half and struggled.

Ron Artest is not a lockdown defender who easily wins his matchups against not only scrubs but the elite players in the League. He is not a dominant athlete nor is he a dominant pure basketball player. He is a brute who roughs up his opponents, tries to bully them using cheap shots and tries to out physical them offensively and when his outside shot is falling is a rather solid offensive player. He is not the great player everyone claims him to be.
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Now on to this nonsense about him being a top ten to top fifteen player in the League. How can someone who not only can't win his matchups against Kareem Rush but isn't even the best player on his own team be considered an elite player? I'm going to just randomnly list the names of some of the best players in the NBA and you decide who is better. 

And when you close your precious little eyes and imagine who is better I wonder just how many of you have actually watched a game from Opening Tip to Final Buzzer in which Ron Artest played? Be honest, how many complete games have any of you actually watched Ron Artest play in? Or are all of you just going on what everyone else says about him? Really, how many complete games? On to the list...

Steve Nash 
Vince Carter  
Jason Richardson
LeBron James 
Ben Wallace 
Corey Maggette
Kobe Bryant 
Rip Hamilton 
Joe Johnson
Dwayne Wade 
Chauncey Billups 
Rasheed Wallace
Shaq O'Neal 
Jason Kidd 
Ron Artest
Elton Brand 
Richard Jefferson 
Yao Ming
Kevin Garnett 
Michael Redd 
Baron Davis
Tracy McGrady 
Carmelo Anthony 
Lamar Odom
Amare Stoudemire 
Marcus Camby 
Mike Bibby
Tim Duncan 
Chris Bosh 
Peja Stojakovic
Shawn Marion 
Tony Parker 
Brad Miller
Jermaine O'Neal 
Manu Ginobli 
Dirk Nowitzki 
Ray Allen
Allen Iverson 
Rashard Lewis
Gilbert Arenas 
Bruce Bowen
Paul Pierce 
AK-47

This is just a random list in no particular order or significance. I'm quite sure I've forgotten very good players but it's just a list to give you names in which to oppose Ron Artest's. I do not believe he is a top ten, top twelve or top fifteen player in the NBA. He might be the fifth best defender in the NBA but for such a great defender he sure doesn't block that many shots or rebound that often or lock his guys down to under 15 ppg, etc.

Ron Artest, all things considered, is easily the most overrated player in the NBA. Corey Maggette, all things considered, is easily the most underappreciated. How can you people say you are fans of the Clippers and of Corey's and so readily **** on him time and again. You blame him for losses and begrudgingly give him credit when he plays great.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

It wasnt a fluke that he won deffensive player of the year award. Its not a fluke hes considered the best perimeter defender in the game, not by fans, but by the league. Its not a fluke that some of the most respected minds in the game such as phil jackson, etc. all say hes top 10-15. If you think hes over rated, thats your perrogative, but dont try to put it off as some kind of documented fact. 

The matchups you put up there are all subjective. Artest was not on a lot of those players most of those games, but you can twist stats to your desire. His defensive prowess is not hype. Its not always something you can easily see on the statline outside of his steals. You do not become the best defender in the league one year by chance. 

Is he the best defender in the nba now? I dont think ive seen anyone on this message board say that here. Im pretty sure everyone views ben as being up there. 

But anyways, theres nothing that will show that ron is the most overrated player in the game because thats so subjective when you say most overrated/underrated. If you think he is, go right ahead. But dont try to put it off as fact. And tone down your posts. If you post anything else like what you did in your last paragraph that i had to delete, it will be taken out.


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## Aphasia (Nov 27, 2005)

The best perimeter defenders in the League guard both the 2 and the 3 position and in the case of Artest he even guards 4's. You don't believe he was guarding D. Wade when they played? You don't believe he was guarding Kareem Rush when they played? You don't think the Pacers used Artest's physical style of play to undercut Dirk's open jumpers? Do you know the game of basketball? 

Do you think they use the supposed best defender in the NBA to guard bums? You don't believe they put Artest on the other team's best player or the guy who is going off on that night? He does not guard 5's and 1's, unless they are a small five or a big one, but that is all. 

Do you know the difference between subjective/objective observation? Wallace, Camby and Kirilenko are better defenders than Artest. How many complete games of Ron Artest have you actually watched? Be honest? How many games of Ron Artest do you think Phil Jackson has watched? Do you seriously believe NBA head coaches watch Ron Artest play basketball on off nights?

I'm not saying Artest is a scrub or anything close to it. I am saying that right now he is the single most overrated player in all of sport. 

It is my opinion, yes, but my opinion will reveal itself as truth. It is a real shame that people like you, yamenko, do not have the talent to see things clearly and to see their inevitable end.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Wow, I think I've found my twin.


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## Aphasia (Nov 27, 2005)

Is it merely subjective to say the Indiana Pacers are just as good a team defensively without Ron Artest the last two seasons as with him, maybe even slightly better?

Is it merely subjective to say that since Corey Maggette's injury the Los Angeles Clippers defense has suffered and fallen in every category?

Oh yes but they are only statistics. What does Opponent's Points per Game or Opponent's Field Goal Percentage statistics matter? Especially over the course of many games, not just a small stretch. 

Ron Artest is a great defensive player, one of the best in the League but not nearly as good as everyone claims him to be. He won the defensive player of the year award because the Indiana Pacers had a great record that year, were the best team defensively that year and he was the best individual defender on a team with a great record. 

But without him they still are one of the best defensive team's in the League, why do you think that is buttercup?


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## Blink4 (Jan 17, 2005)

Aphasia said:


> The best perimeter defenders in the League guard both the 2 and the 3 position and in the case of Artest he even guards 4's. You don't believe he was guarding D. Wade when they played? You don't believe he was guarding Kareem Rush when they played? You don't think the Pacers used Artest's physical style of play to undercut Dirk's open jumpers? Do you know the game of basketball?
> 
> Do you think they use the supposed best defender in the NBA to guard bums? You don't believe they put Artest on the other team's best player or the guy who is going off on that night? He does not guard 5's and 1's, unless they are a small five or a big one, but that is all.



Okay , if Artest only played 33mpg, they for 15minutes he was not guarding the oher teams player. Did you watch the Bobcats-pacers games? Was Artest on him the entire game? Maybe they set screens for him to get open looks, same with Korver. Is that all Artests fault? No. You need help as a defender. You cant simply take ONE STAT, ppg, and say that it is Artests fault.

Is josh Howard the worst defender in the NBA? I mean, Kobe scored 62 on him right?? YOU CANT BASE YOUR ARGUEMENT OFF OF ONE STATISTIC. iTS STUPID. 

Thirdly, half the games you listed were games where a great player (Lebron, Vince) got shut down, while Artest functioned well on offense.


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## THE'clip'SHOW (Sep 24, 2002)

arenas809 said:


> Wow, I think I've found my twin.


trips


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

> Wallace, Camby and Kirilenko are better defenders than Artest.


As I said, no one is saying he is the best defensive player in the nba right now, so I dont know why you keep bringing up ben wallace, this guy has won three deffensive player of the year awards. no one in their right mind would say he isnt hands down the cream of the crop deffensively in this league. The other two players you mentioned havent won defensive player of the year though. They both are part of the top 5-10 deffensively in the game for sure though. 



> I'm not saying Artest is a scrub or anything close to it. I am saying that right now he is the single most overrated player in all of sport.


Youre going even more off with your statements. Think that all you want, but say, "I FEEL" he is the most overrrated player in all of sports. Dont try to come off like your an all knowing person who decides who is overrated and not. Is adonal foyle the most overrated player in the league since he got 40 million dollars? Derek fisher? Mike Dunleavvy Jr with his contract? thats just one team right there, and one can make the argument that each of those players were the beneficiaries of a league which overrates big men, overrates ex lakers, overrates combo SF/PF's who can dribble. Ron artest meanwhile was a bargain for his contract. Compared to derek fisher then does that mean he is the most underrated player in the league, since his value was low? Again, its all subjective, dont say something as fact when its not. 



> Is it merely subjective to say that since Corey Maggette's injury the Los Angeles Clippers defense has suffered and fallen in every category?


Yes, because although I personally THINK he is overrated as a defender, you can see that a big problem with defense even more than maggette being out was when Q ross got injured, and then afterwards came back not at 100%. 



> How many complete games of Ron Artest have you actually watched? Be honest? How many games of Ron Artest do you think Phil Jackson has watched? Do you seriously believe NBA head coaches watch Ron Artest play basketball on off nights?


I have been watching artest for years, even when he was at st. johns. Not because he was someone that i really thought would make it or anything, but because i used to hang out at the building where he lived when his family was still there, and he was like a legend there, so i got hooked watching him. personally i think with all the games ive seen him in he is one of the best defenders in the game. Not just about shutting people down, but the way he changes the game plan of the other team..the way he changes the plays because of his presence, the intimidation...usually the intimidation you see in games comes when a guard drives and finds a 7 foot shot blocker in the lane. I havent seen it with many SF/SGs. 

Youre beating a dead horse. Like i said, no one here is saying hes the best defender in the game. Better than wallace or anything like that. The only point you want to make is how you think hes the most overrated player. Well, you are not smarter than all of the people who voted him the defensive player of the year one year. You cannot use just statistics to try to prove something that is half intangible. People argue about how wilcox should get more playing time based on his stats, etc. But anyone who watches the games knows exactly why wilcox doesnt get playing time, and its beacuse of him disappearing in games, his lack of effort at times, and poor on rotations (at least more than the other centers). Yet, at the end of the game he would still probably end up with good points per minute and rebounds....because he would get in in garbage time and have a few quick dunks, put backs, etc. Statistics dont tell the whole story.


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## Aphasia (Nov 27, 2005)

Yes I guarantee I am more intelligent, aware and observant than the mental giants who make a living in the world of sport. Let us not make this about intelligence because a very clear distinction can be made in this regard and I am not trying to humiliate any of you. 

I personally hate statistics but having read all of your incredibly apt and insightful opinions it became quite clear that most of you only understand statistics and exterior opinion. How many times I've heard the numbers of Ron Artest's offensive prowess to justify his superiority to Corey. Time and again statistics and the quoting of others opinions have been all of your arguments and that is rather sad. 

How many times I've heard that not only does Ron Artest get you 19+ per game but he locks down his man thus creating such a mismatch every single night that it is a no brainer to trade Corey for him. 

It is degrading to you to think I wasn't aware that one doesn't guard an opponent on every single possession for the whole of a game. Is it my failing to mention the fact that Ron Artest on two consecutive games got lit up by Kareem Rush? So Ron Artest does not man up the opposing team's best offensive player? Or the one going off on that night? Really? 

I'm sorry for all of you that the object of you affection got lit up rather severely at times this year. I know it's tragic to break the dream that Ron Artest holds his man to less than 15 every single game, that perhaps even the god like Artest comes up small in big games and against elite offensive players.

You kittens keep dreaming of Ron Artest holding Carmelo Anthony to 16.3 ppg in the first round of the playoffs and locking down Kobe Bryant to 18.9 ppg in the second round. In the Western Finals manning up Diggler, holding him to a mere 19.7 ppg and then in the NBA Finals containing both Hamilton's motion and Prince's length, locking them down to 15.8 and 9.4 respectively. Himself scoring 23 ppg throughout the entire playoffs, leading the Los Angeles Clippers to the 2005-2006 NBA Championship. 

I wept just writing it. You convinced me boys, we need Ron Artest. I will place a few large bills inside a self addressed stamped envelope and mail it to the Staples Center in care of the Los Angeles Clippers basketball organization in regard to attaining, by any means necessary, the complete services of Ron Artest. 

And on that day EVERY banana will dance!


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## ClipOre4Life (Oct 25, 2005)

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: And so the prophecy has been foretold...


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## leidout (Jul 13, 2005)

Add me to the list, and i'm not shocked at all that the original post was edited by Yamaneko, leader of "Ron Artest for MVP, even though he hasn't played in 2 years!"-fanclub.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

You shouldnt be shocked. Any posts on here where users say derrogatory remarks against other users, or just posters on here in general (like in the first post, and a couple others on this thread), you have my guarantee, either I or weasel will either delete the entire post, or edit out the bad remarks. And quit trying to put words in my mouth. Show me where i have said that ron artest is, has been, or should be the MVP.


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