# Tom Thibodeau on the Hot Seat?



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

> So in a case like this one, if Thibodeau has lost his locker room, he should not expect a ton of support from management. People close to the organization have told me that relations between Thibodeau and the front office have improved in the two years since assistant coach Ron Adams was let go against Thibodeau’s wishes, but I have heard enough anecdotes from people close to the team to realize that Thibodeau still views Bulls management with a jaundiced eye. And some have told me that team president John Paxson remains lukewarm at best regarding Thibs.
> 
> Just my opinion, but Thibodeau should be emulating Rivers more than he is emulating Van Gundy.
> 
> So you can be damn sure that Thibodeau’s job will be on the line as the Bulls, losers of four of their last five, begin a brutal stretch that includes games against the Spurs, Mavericks, Warriors and Suns before the end of January. The pre-All Star break schedule concludes with a home game against the Cavaliers — but it should be noted that Chicago does not exactly enjoy a home court advantage. They are 12-10 at home and 15-6 on the road.


http://www.basketballinsiders.com/tom-thibodeau-on-the-hot-seat-in-chicago/

@King Joseus @taco_daddy @JT @yodurk @Fergus @Dornado @Rhyder @jnrjr79 @thebizkit69u @bullsger


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Yea..... no. Thibs is not on the hot seat. 

I love when people try to get on him for actually asking his players to play basketball. 

He's a top 10 coach in this league.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

R-Star said:


> Yea..... no. Thibs is not on the hot seat.
> 
> I love when people try to get on him for actually asking his players to play basketball.
> 
> He's a top 10 coach in this league.


My thoughts as well. Everything he's done the last couple of years has been incredible, in my opinion. Would be extremely stupid of the Bulls to let him go.


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## taco_daddy (Jun 13, 2004)

Personally, I think the only way Thibs loses command of this team is if there is a riff between him and Rose. Having your superstar buy into your system is influential.

Right now I think the issue is chemistry. This is a team that hasn't played much together because of injuries and there are a lot of new pieces. Rose is almost new as he hasn't played consistently with the team in two years. Pau, McDermott, and Mirotic are all new to the team.

The team will snap out of it. I think expectations are too high and unreasonable. People are saying this Bulls team is a championship contender when it is being led by a player who has been out for two seasons. It's kind of hard to make that leap. The only two roster personnel on this team with rings are Thibs (as assistant coach in Boston) and Pau. Gasol (Robin) relied on Batman (Kobe) win his two championships and is now beyond his prime.

Personally I never thought this Bulls team was as good as they were hyped to be. Thibs is fine, as long as him and Rose are cool and Thibs doesn't do anything outrageous to irk management.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

I have to say that I just don't buy the Sheridan report. If the Bulls lose 15 of the next 20...maybe. But you're not going to go win an NBA title by firing your coach mid-season, so it'd take a pretty epic collapse, one would think.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> But you're not going to go win an NBA title by firing your coach mid-season, so it'd take a pretty epic collapse, one would think.


Agreed. Also, where are they going to find a better coach? George Karl? Old man Jerry Sloan? Avery Johnson? Mark Jackson? Scott Skiles? Mike D’Antoni? Eh. I think I'd rather have Thibbs.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

Definitely can't happen mid-season. The Bulls have as good of a chance as anyone to reach the NBA Finals and firing your coach mid-season rarely if ever helps your chances.

He's an amazing coach. If the Bulls are dumb enough to let him go, there will be 20 other teams on his doorstep with contract offers in hand.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

That makes me wonder. Has any team who has changed coaches mid-season ever gone on to win a title? Or at least reach the Finals?


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Basel said:


> That makes me wonder. Has any team who has changed coaches mid-season ever gone on to win a title? Or at least reach the Finals?


Don't have to go back that far. 2005-06 Miami Heat won the title after SVG "resigned" and Riley took over.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

hobojoe said:


> Don't have to go back that far. 2005-06 Miami Heat won the title after SVG "resigned" and Riley took over.



Completely forgot about this.


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Just for comedy's sake, I hope the Bulls are dumb enough to fire Thibs because Derrick Rose doesn't like being yelled at.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

R-Star said:


> Yea..... no. Thibs is not on the hot seat.
> 
> I love when people try to get on him for actually asking his players to play basketball.
> 
> He's a top 10 coach in this league.


Apparently, Adrian Wojnaroski of Yahoo (i.e., the most plugged in writer in the NBA) said on the radio today that he's heard nothing about players having a rift with Thibodeau, nor about Thibodeau being on the hot seat. So you may be right. That doesn't mean there isn't some tension there, but the media has a tendency to grasp at straws to make a story. Yes, the Bulls aren't playing well...or hard. There could be other reasons to that.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

RollWithEm said:


> Agreed. Also, where are they going to find a better coach? George Karl? Old man Jerry Sloan? Avery Johnson? Mark Jackson? Scott Skiles? Mike D’Antoni? Eh. I think I'd rather have Thibbs.


There is a very high likelihood the Bulls are keeping a close eye on Fred Hoiberg as a future Bulls coach. Hoiberg can coach, doing a great job at Iowa State. He has long-time relationships with the Bulls front office dating back to his college days I believe (Gar Foreman). Now obviously he has proven nothing at the pro level, but he has the budding resume to justify such a hire, and every great coach has to start somewhere.

As for Thibodeau...look, he is definitely one of the top 3 smartest coaches in the NBA, but he is not perfect. He runs players into the ground, which is a huge flaw in a league where health can derail your entire season. He is a great defensive strategist, but offensively his sets are pretty basic and predictable. We've seen him get outsmarted in the game of chess that is a best of 7 playoff series. 

I would hate to lose him. But the reality is, this is the NBA where the lifespan of a head coach simply doesn't last very long. Guys like Popovich and Sloan are the exception, not the rule. Thibodeau has already had a good run and it will eventually come to an end sooner or later. He'll probably have a job waiting for him somewhere else, and that doesn't mean the Bulls made the wrong decision necessarily. Sometimes you just need a change. There are other good coaches out there to be had.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

An interesting question too is, what happens if you put Thibodeau as coach on some other teams in the NBA right now?

I could see him doing something much like Budenholzer is for the Hawks, rallying a moderately talented squad to be elite or near elite. Ditto with Toronto. He would probably be a much needed boost to some of those middling or below average teams. 

I am not sure he gets so more out of teams like the Warriors, Blazers, Suns, Grizzlies. These teams are already producing with the talent they have; Thibs would provide diminished returns. There are other coaches out there doing a great job right now. That is partly my point though, Thibs is a good coach but there are other good coaches. They all have flaws. Popovich is about as perfect as you get.

A big question in my mind is, does Thibs have what it takes to coach a team all the way? Title winning teams typically must be elite on both ends of the court. I worry sometimes that Thibs focuses too much on the defensive end, and that we'll eventually just get picked apart too easily on the offensive side in playoff series. Even playing inferior teams like Indiana and Hawks back in 2011, those series were closer than everyone expected.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

yodurk said:


> Apparently, Adrian Wojnaroski of Yahoo (i.e., the most plugged in writer in the NBA) said on the radio today that he's heard nothing about players having a rift with Thibodeau, nor about Thibodeau being on the hot seat. So you may be right. That doesn't mean there isn't some tension there, but the media has a tendency to grasp at straws to make a story. Yes, the Bulls aren't playing well...or hard. There could be other reasons to that.



I was relieved to hear this, but Woj pretty famously remains unconnected to sources inside of the Bulls, so this is one of the instances where I wouldn't totally take his word as gospel. Still, I believe he is probably closer to the truth than Sheridan.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

jnrjr79 said:


> I was relieved to hear this, but Woj pretty famously remains unconnected to sources inside of the Bulls, so this is one of the instances where I wouldn't totally take his word as gospel. Still, I believe he is probably closer to the truth than Sheridan.


Here is a link to this, BTW: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/01...sc=26896802.1.1421943428568&__hsfp=1319426690

You are right, JNR, that Woj likely isn't getting info from inside the Bulls front office, however Woj does get a ton of info from players & agents. I would think if players were getting worn thin or tuning out Thibodeau, Woj would hear something from someone in the locker room.

Also let's be careful not to muddle 2 different issues here. Sheridan says the locker room is tuning him out. In the past it's been that there is friction between Bulls management & Thibs. I don't reallly see how the 2 are related, except perhaps that if the former happens, the latter could be the tipping point to parting ways. But I believe Woj has earned the right to believe him, that players aren't tuning him out right now. And if that's the case, it would be WAY too preliminary to let go of Thibs.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

Heard Woj on the radio today and he basically said that every team gets tired of their coach(es) over the course of the season and that this was probably happening with Thibodeau. 

I think he's right and I think Sheridan's sources overstated the case.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

transplant said:


> Heard Woj on the radio today and he basically said that every team gets tired of their coach(es) over the course of the season and that this was probably happening with Thibodeau.
> 
> I think he's right and I think Sheridan's sources overstated the case.


I loved Popovich's comments on the issue...

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/stor...vich-defend-chicago-bulls-coach-tom-thibodeau



> "He's not gonna lose any team," Popovich said before the game. "I think you guys just have to have stories. So somebody loses a few games, there's got to be a reason. I guess that's the one that was picked. Sometimes players listen to me. Timmy [Duncan] stopped listening to me a long time ago. I don't even coach him. You guys think I'm kidding. He just plays. I talk to him once in a while, but sometimes some guys don't want to hear it.
> 
> "But as far as the team and being lost and that kind of thing, that's not what's happening here."


I've also seen people saying this is like the Scott Skiles situation before he was let go. I've always thought the Skiles comparisons were off base. For starters Skiles had the Bulls at a losing record early in the season before getting fired, something like 3-8. The two situations really aren't comparable. Hopefully beating 2 good teams in a row will silence this issue for a while...IMO, that was the players' way of going out there and telling the media to put this issue to bed.


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