# Vince Carter for Allen Iverson



## JBH (Jul 22, 2002)

Would you do it???


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

If I was getting Vince


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## untitled (Jun 22, 2002)

If it was player for player no contracts involved no I wouldn't do it. I am a raptor fan and therefore a Vince Carter fan and he has brought so much to the country and to the city of Toronto that it would just hurt to see him leave. 

Allen Iverson would be a fan attraction obviously but because of his attitude and his past he might as well just give the Koala (Lenny Wilkens) a heart attack. 


If toronto did this deal including contracts they would pick up around 2 million dollars. That is something they don't want.


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## Wiggum (Jul 29, 2002)

Neither side would do it.


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## untitled (Jun 22, 2002)

I agree with that


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## Devestata (May 29, 2002)

If it was ever done, the team getting AI would probably be getting more talent, but they are also taking on AI's personal problems. I'd take VC just becuase of that.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

I would not trade Vince for AI but I would trade AI for Vince.


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## basketball_jesus (Jun 15, 2002)

I would rather have AI than Vince any day. Toronto did better last year WITHOUT VINCE than they did with him. When the sixers loose AI they get killed. AI is more valuble to his team, AND more talented than Vince Carter is.


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## Beardown_922 (Jul 16, 2002)

It is all hear say!!!!!


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## Wink (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Beardown_922</b>!
> It is all hear say!!!!!




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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

AI is not more tallented than Vince. Vince was injured last year and everyone kept acting like he should still put up the same numbers. You'll eat your words when Vince comes back with a vengance this year. If AI is so good why has Vince led allstar balloting for 2 years straight? AI's a punk.


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## ballinfreakNY (Aug 6, 2002)

*2 advantages...*

AI's only 2 advantages over Vince are that he is the quickest in the L, and he probably has the most heart in the L. Otherwise, yeah, he is a punk who jacks up 40 shots a game.
Oh, and R-Star, learn how to spell TALENTED.
AI was MVP, All-Star MVP, ROY, scoring champ 2 in a row,he dragged his team to the finals by his teeth, etc. Vince hasn't a thing. AI is a proven player, once Vince gets any of that, I'll talk about that trade. Notic eHow they did BETTER without VC.


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## basketball_jesus (Jun 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>R-Star</b>!
> AI is not more tallented than Vince. Vince was injured last year and everyone kept acting like he should still put up the same numbers. You'll eat your words when Vince comes back with a vengance this year. If AI is so good why has Vince led allstar balloting for 2 years straight? AI's a punk.


You are a fool. AI was injured the whole playoffs in Philla's finals run. He was working on one leg, and had a bum shoulder. In the finals he would cover his mouth with his jersey when running up court and spit out blood so he wouldn't have the official see the blood and take him out. Vince leads the allstar balloting because of ignorant people like you who think he is the greatest because of a few nice dunks. If you think leading the allstar balloting is a great accomplishment you don't know what you are talking about.


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## ballinfreakNY (Aug 6, 2002)

*amen...*

Thank you, finally someone else who knows basketball and actually looks at the truth. VC is all flash. Amen.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Ok first of, Ballinfreak. I didnt know we were in gramar class but if you want to try to talk to me about spelling, maybe you should check your posts first. As far as AI, who told you he was spitting blood? Because I never saw that. And if the guy had so much heart, and loved the game so much, he would go to practice. He thinks hes too good for it. Well guess what, hes not. The only reason you two think AI is the man is because you think its cool that hes a thug. The guy can barley speak passable english. If VC came in and was all tatooed up and talking about his crew like Iverson does, you'd love him. Iverson has heart, thats pretty funny. Oh, and Vince has had a FEW nice dunks? Your kidding right? Hes was voted #1 dunker of all time in slam. I think you need more than a few to get that. You could say his 3 dunks in the dunk contest were a few. But then theres all the regular season ones hes pulled off too. And about Iverson playing imjured all the time, so did Vince, he was injured almost all last year. Thats why he didnt put up his usual numbers. But I mean what am I ever bringing this up for, Iverson has heart, Vince doesnt. Right?


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## Wink (May 30, 2002)

*Re: amen...*



> Originally posted by <b>ballinfreakNY</b>!
> Thank you, finally someone else who knows basketball and actually looks at the truth. VC is all flash. Amen.



I personally hate both players...so I have no bias....I find Vince to be all flash no cash...and AI to be too selfish...I personally wouldn't want either of them on my team if I was the coach. If I was the owner it would be another story as they put people in the seats and sell merchandise, but as far as team chemistry goes neither of them really do it for me. I would much rather have a T-mac or a Kobe someone who plays defence, will pass, is not afraid to take it to the hole because they are worried about being labeled a dunker, will show up to practice etc etc. Just a few things that either AI or VC don't do some of them both of them don't do.

So AI for VC?? I don't think either team does it....I think unless Vince comes back with a vengence you won't get market value for him...and as for AI...Portland anyone?


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## -inVINCEible- (Jul 22, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basketball_jesus</b>!
> Toronto did better last year WITHOUT VINCE than they did with him.



what!!! do you know what youre saying?? did you do any research on the subject??


go check the teams that toronto played w/ out VC


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## Ghost (Jun 21, 2002)

i would take vince over ai cause vince comes to pratice:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## Hawkeye Pierce (Jul 15, 2002)

all this toalk about AI taking his team all by himself to the finals, i think you people are forgetting that vince took AI to 7 games that year, they were quite clearly the best two players in the eastern conference that year and AI was the mvp(although despite the hoopla everyone makes over his lack of supposting cast, mutombo and mckie played very well throughtout the playoffs that year, at least as well as antonio davis and the rest of the raptors) 



anyway, would i do it? hmm i dno i definitely would not trade vince for iverson bewcause of iversons personal problems, but i dont know if id trade ai for vince, but i probably would, vince is a 25 5 and 5 guy when healthy


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## ViNSaNiTy1127 (Jul 23, 2002)

madd luv to AI..but you can't front on VC..he's definitely more valuable when both are equally healthy..

like dude said, "I would not trade Vince for AI but I would trade AI for Vince."


*simple as that.*


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## FreeAirtime (Jun 20, 2002)

This is obviously a matter of opinion. People have arguements like 'Carter is a 25 5 and 5 guy when healthy'. First he's yet to average more than 4apg in any season, and that was last year when he wasn't healthy. Second, when healthy, Iverson is close to a 30 6 and 5 guy, which is obviously better. Another said Carter is better because of All-Star balloting. Iverson's people have argued that he's better because he has more heart. Which is true in my eyes, but Iverson also has problems because of his 'attitude problems' on and off the court. The guy that I think hit it on the head the most was the one who said that you'll never have Carter at full market value until he comes back with a vengence. I personally would trade Carter for Iverson but not the other way. But that's only my opinion which happens to be from Philadelphia.


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## Pure Scorer (Jul 20, 2002)

*vince vs ai*

okay here are my scouting reports for both players....

vince: ultra athletic, nice finishing around the hoop, ugly form on his 3pt shot but gets good height on it and has a good percentage, good first step, not a great passer but not bad, dribbling is good only because of his athleticism, midrange game could be improved..

AI:extremely quick first step, good cutting/slashing, great one on one player, good dribbling, defense is very good due to his quick hands, shooting is not fundamental but he gets the job done, does take a lot of shots but thats what they want him to do.. he avged 7.5 assists per game in his rookie season.. he could be avging 10-12 a game right now but his team WANTS him to shoot.. look at who their second option is for godssake.. harpring / coleman/ tmac canada/ eric snow.. those are a bunch of scrubs and still ai avgs 30 a game being double/triple teamed..

i would MUCH rather have ai on my team, i dont care about his work ethic/missing practices in philly, look at how the **** he is treated there.. the ****ing owners brother jacks him up, everyone calling him a punk, saying he should be traded **** id be pised too.. the guy loves the game, he loves winning.. he is a great player and his potential hasnt even been fully tapped yet.. he could easily avg 27 pts, 10 asts, 6 rbds, 3 stls a game next year.. he is a great player..as for vince.. he is alson a great player, but i for one do not thnk he is one of the elite players in the league, sure he puts up the numbers but the only thing aobut him that is special is his athleticism.. vince is not a special player, and i dont think he will ever be rated at the top of any list thats not listing dunkers.. the reason he is the top in the league in allstar voting is because the allstar game is expected to be exciting, and that is what vince is, exciting.. he is not a great player, but he is very exciting.. ai is a great player, who is pretty much unstoppable once he is given the ball..


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Pure Scorer*

Not too hard to tell who the die hard AI fans are out there. "the guy loves the game" Realy? If he loves the game as much as you all think, then wouldnt he WANT to go to practice? I mean, he would get to play the game he loves even more. Maybe he could even get a respectable shot percentage if he went. Because right now its embarrasing. AI averaging 10 assists a game is a joke. He couldnt do it when he was at the point, so why would he be able to do it at 2 guard? Yes his team wants him to score. Hes their main scorer, but that doesnt mean take 90% of the shots. As far as AI not being able to pass to anyone, I fail to see how Vince had any more options to pass to than AI did. The supporting cast of the Raptors are no better than the cast of the Sixers. And Vince isnt a great player? Are you kidding me? You have to be joking. If you look at the playoffs series they had in 2000, Vince and AI put up similar numbers. Very similar. Except vinces shooting percentage wasent in the mid 30's. It went to game 7. If Vince wasent so young at the time and had no playoff experience, AI would have had to go home early. Vince can score the same, rebound better, and dunk way better than AI. AI can pass better and steal better than Vince. So they pretty much even each other out, except on the fact that Vince goes to practice and isnt getting in trials every couple of years. Oh, and if AI loved the game so much, he would go on the US team like Vince did. AI doesnt want to lose his summer though. Yea, thats love to the game. Vince wins, AI'S NOTHING BUT A PUNK


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## Psubs (Jul 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>basketball_jesus</b>!
> I would rather have AI than Vince any day. Toronto did better last year WITHOUT VINCE than they did with him. When the sixers loose AI they get killed. AI is more valuble to his team, AND more talented than Vince Carter is.


This is just plain wrong. With Vince, the Raptors were tied with Milwaukee for top spot in the Central Division only trailing NJ. Vince leaves = losing streak but they recovered to make the playoffs (2/3 seed to 7th seed). It's true Philli is pretty bad without AI. This just proves if anything that the the supporting cast around Vince is better.


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

I love Allen Iverson, I mean I LOVE that dude, I've never seen anybody play with so much intensity. Talk about an underdog, the dude is what, 6'0", he comes from a lousy neighborhood, puts his team on his back and, is the 76ers would've hit their damn free throws down the stretch in Game 2 a couple of years ago in the Finals vs. the Lakers, they would've been up 2-0 going back home to Philly.

HAVING SAID THAT!

Iverson doesn't take care of his body, he doesn't take care of it during the offseason, he throws his body around like crazy during the regular season, he plays injured. And he doesn't have much of a body to BEGIN with. In other words, I think his career is all downhill from here on out.

Vince Carter's best days are ahead of him, I think it's pretty safe to say that.

So yeah, I hate to say it, but I'm a huge Iverson fan, and I'd trade Iverson for Vince. Iverson really packs it in, the fans love him--but Vince packs it in, too.

And having said THAT, talk about a trade that is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN in real life, so I have NO IDEA why I just bumped this thread up AGAIN, sorry, folks!


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

True. This trade has no chance of happening. Its just fun to see both Vince and AI fans, and those in between come out and have their say.


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## Pure Scorer (Jul 20, 2002)

*Rstar*

Rstar.. i have a few questions for you...

1)do you think a player, who in his ROOKIE season avged 7.5 apg (which is only .2 less then jason kidd), has above avg passing, and gets double and triple teamed all day long and can PASS OUT OF THE DOUBLE TEAM EASILY could get 10 apg? well i do.. its pretty evident that if he was surrounded by 1 or 2 good players he could easily avg 10 apg because he wouldnt be forced to score all of his teams points..

2) if you were sent to prison because you were "involved in a brawl" (and in the context "involved in a brawl" really means "black".. and no im not black so dont try to use an ad hominem arguement) which you were obviously not involved in and your whole life was about to be thrown away and you were forced to live in a poorly built, ****TY house without heating and with an inconsistent water source, would you really want to represent "your country"(and again, in the context "your context" really means a bunch of old rich *******s who wouldn't give a about you except for the fact that you can put a ball in teh hoop, because we all know the GREAT "TEAM USA" is not representing all the ghettos and all the poor people of america, but just being used as advertisement for some rich *******s to become even richer.. and if you cant see that then you obviously do not understand the politics of basketball)? well their is no way that ii would do that.

3) and to me, missing a practice is not the biggest deal in the world. its a job, dont tell me that you have never missed one day of work or one day of school in your life, or for that matter more then one day. and to me, going to practice is not a measure of how much a player loves the game, the only way to measure how much a player loves a game is to look in his eyes when hes on the court, and when you watch ai, you can see the desire in his eyes. you can see he wants the ball when hes on the court, wether on defense or offense.

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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*IN REPLY TO YOUR QUESTIONS*

1) Tell me the last time a shooting guard has had an average of 10 assists a game. And on top of that, a shooting guard who puts up 30+ shots a night. To my knowledge it hasent happened. AI may be a great passer, be he has to be willing to pass. We definatley arent going to agree here, so we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

2) The fact is, lets say he did even get wrongfully accuesed, the fact is, if he wasent a super star, he would be in jail right now for his last stunt. Iverson got of from 50 odd years in jail because he is who he is. So dont go telling me America owes this piece of trash anything. I would have been happy to see him go to jail. Hes probably off somewhere with OJ right now drinking some beer and laughing about how they get away with whatever they want.

3) I did miss school when I was younger. And I do have the occasional sick day at work. But lets get something straight. Iverson isnt missing the odd practice. He just doesnt go period. The thing that I dont see is how you guys dont understand that he is getting paid HUGE truck fulls of money to do his job. His job is to go to practice, and go to games. If hes injured, then fine. Thats different. But I know that if I told my work, "Hey, not comming to meetings anymore guys. Im the best in the whole office, I dont need to be there. Ill come to work when the meetings are done." Then I would be out of a job. He is getting paid to do his job. Theres no reason in the world he should get paid that much and not have to do it. 

I dont think Vince is a better player than AI. I would say they are even. But Vince is a all around nice guy who is good to have on the team. AI is setting a great example for the rest of his team. Sorry AI fans, but hes a piece of trash.


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## ArsenalNYK (Aug 7, 2002)

Neither team would do it. Thats the first thing.

But if they did Id take AI over Vince any day. Vince doesn't want the spotlight. He doesnt want to be a leader. When they lose playoff games, he calls it the team's failure. He doesnt demand the ball. He only rarely TAKES OVER a game. If that same Vince who went to the World Championships and JUMPED OVER that 7-FOOT FRENCH NOBODY (Weiss) and then let him hear about it, were playin in the NBA, then id take Vince over anyone except SHAQ. 

AI might be a punk but hes a leader. He has heart. He inspires his teammates. Hes clutch and he is not afraid to say GIVE ME THE DAMN BALL.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Nah man. AI's team are the ones saying give me the damn ball. You've shot 35 times, my turn now. And Vince blamed the past 2 years on himself, not his team. So I dont know where you heard that he blamed it on his team, but its completly wrong. Vince does have to learn how to be a better leader though. But I think that will come very soon.


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## Pure Scorer (Jul 20, 2002)

*R Star*

"1) Tell me the last time a shooting guard has had an average of 10 assists a game. And on top of that, a shooting guard who puts up 30+ shots a night. To my knowledge it hasent happened. AI may be a great passer, be he has to be willing to pass. We definatley arent going to agree here, so we will have to agree to disagree on this one."

- you cant look at historical arguements and say "it hasnt happened yet, so it wont ever happen", no offense, but thats just plain dumb. that is how the game evolves, through changes and players doing stuff that has never been done before. and i believe that in my arguement i stated that ai could take a few less shots per game, (he took 27 spg last season) and raise his assists. i said i think he COULD avg 10 assists per game if he didnt have to carry the scoring load on his team.


2) if he was just some thug off the street people wouldnt give a f*ck about what he was doing. the reason everyone views him as being such a bad person is becasue he is in teh spotlight. sure hes not the great sumaritan that youd expect a player of his calibre to be, but hes allowed to have his own opinion, and when you go through some of the stuff he has been through well then you arent always happy.. you cant get mad at someone for not being happy with their life, i dont care if hes being paid a lot, because money doent equal happiness. 

3) i dont think thats the case. i think he missed a couple of practices, and if it was more then 3 or 4 well then i agree with you. but their is no way in hell any player should play if they consistently miss practice. their is simply no way that would happen. i consider this a case of the media overplaying something that isnt really a big deal, but perhaps i was misinformed and he consistently did miss practice, then id have to agree with you..


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*Pure Scorer*

"but hes allowed to have his own opinion"

If you mean throwing your wife out of the house naked and not letting her back in, then going looking for her brandishing a gun is ok because its his opinion, then I would deffinatley have to say your wrong. Baron Davis had just as rough a life and hes a modle NBA player. AI cant blame everything on, "I had a bad childhood" or as AI would probably TRY to say "I wunt treeted good as a youngin" Bottom line is, AI should be in jail. Right now he should be behind bars. Dont you AI fans get that? The guy was supposed to go away for around 50 years. He got off because he is who he is. Dont tell me a bad childhood attones for that. If I was the Sixers I would trade him for anything. ANYTHING and start rebuilding. The thing you also dont understand is the fact that AI's trade falue dropped through the floor after that incident. Not too many teams want a guy like that in the locker room. Except the Blazers of course. They are probably want him more than anything now. If I was a gm I know I wouldnt want him on my team, even if that meant winning.


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