# UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman



## OneBadLT123

Now that the news of the last 2 weeks has died off, its now time to start making stories elsewhere... Not sure how legit this is so take it for what its worth.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/...y-facing-crisis-with-paul?tag=headlines;other



> When Paul was quoted a few weeks ago as saying he'd be open to a trade if the Hornets aren't committed to building a championship team, it was only a small hint as to the size of the chasm that exists between the franchise and its cornerstone player. Paul, in fact, has put into motion an aggressive exit strategy that will accelerate in the coming weeks, and his clear intention is to be traded before the start of the 2010-11 season, a person with direct knowledge of his plans told CBSSports.com Wednesday.
> 
> "He wants out," said the person, who has been briefed on Paul's strategy but spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss it publicly. "He wants to play with another superstar. He wants to follow LeBron's model of teaming up with other great players."
> 
> Paul's list of preferred destinations consists of the Knicks, Magic and Lakers, and members of his inner circle already have sent word to the Hornets of his desire to be traded to one of those teams, sources say. If Paul has his way, he's played his last game in a Hornets jersey.
> 
> "He feels like they haven't put the right pieces together," said the person familiar with the star point guard's plans.
> 
> Paul, a three-time All-Star, still has two years before he can become a free agent. But his dissatisfaction with the Hornets' downward spiral, coupled with the coup pulled off by James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh in Miami has only accelerated his desire to seek a trade. *Sources within the NBA say members of Paul's camp have told them recently, "He's not going to start the season in New Orleans.*


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## Wade County

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Interesting. It's a CBS Sports report, so who knows if it's legit - but it wouldn't be suprising if he wanted out.

Who'se got the pieces to get him though?


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## OneBadLT123

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Houston...


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## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Orlando needs to stop faking and do that. Vince and every pick in the hair store...


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## Seanzie

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

How about this:

Orlando gets:
PG Chris Paul
PF/C Emeka Okafor

New Orleans gets:
SG Vince Carter (nice expiring)
SF Mickael Pietrus (expiring)
PG Jameer Nelson
PF Ryan Anderson
C Daniel Orton
Multiple draft picks


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## Wade County

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I was actually just thinking them :laugh:

Brooks, Ariza and Battier for Paul works under the cap...dunno if that gets it done though.


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## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Something tells me Orlando wouldn't take Okafor back.


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## Seanzie

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> Something tells me Orlando wouldn't take Okafor back.


If it means getting Chris Paul, I hope they would.


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## OneBadLT123

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Wade County said:


> I was actually just thinking them :laugh:
> 
> Brooks, Ariza and Battier for Paul works under the cap...dunno if that gets it done though.


+ Patterson, and/or Hill and we have some 1st rounders we can throw in there from lottery bound teams.

Its possible


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## Jakain

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Tony Parker's got an expiring contract and CP3 is from Wake Forest like Tim Duncan ...although I don't think the Spurs have much a shot and I don't see NOH wanting a starting PG back when they could develop Collison instead.

Relations must have to gone to **** if CP3 is serious about leaving but he has been adamant about wanting to be on a competitive roster as well. That knee injury and seeing his friends join up in Miami just might be too much to handle when it comes to sticking with West and Peja. Then again their new coach is the guy CP3 wanted and he seems to love the city.


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## Lynx

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Seanzie said:


> How about this:
> 
> Orlando gets:
> PG Chris Paul
> PF/C Emeka Okafor
> 
> New Orleans gets:
> SG Vince Carter (nice expiring)
> SF Mickael Pietrus (expiring)
> PG Jameer Nelson
> PF Ryan Anderson
> C Daniel Orton
> Multiple draft picks


This works..

..and Dwight will have fun dunking Emeka in practice...lol


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## seifer0406

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I think the Grizz should try to get him.

Conley + Thabeet + Zach Randolph + 1st rounder 

for 

Paul + Okafor

New Orleans gets a lot of talent and salary relief and Memphis gets one of the best back 3 in the league.

Gasol
Okafor
Gay
Mayo
Paul


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## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

If this is true I'm surprised he wants to play in the triangle in LA.


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## MemphisX

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> Something tells me Orlando wouldn't take Okafor back.


The same Orlando that just matched Redick? I think they would take Okafor and Posey back to get Paul. They are all in for a title and NEED to make a major move. Plus Okafor/Howard would be great against the Lakers.


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## MemphisX

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



seifer0406 said:


> I think the Grizz should try to get him.
> 
> Conley + Thabeet + Zach Randolph + 1st rounder
> 
> for
> 
> Paul + Okafor
> 
> New Orleans gets a lot of talent and salary relief and Memphis gets one of the best back 3 in the league.
> 
> Gasol
> Okafor
> Gay
> Mayo
> Paul


I'm sure he would be thrilled to come to Memphis.:combust:


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## carlos710

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The grizzlies have good pieces to give up for paul and still keep a good roster, but I doubt Paul is asking for a trade just to go to another small market team ... and I don't see heisley taking bad contracts like okafor's which NOH certainly will look to include in a trade.

I would like to see him in Orlando or San antonio


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## futuristxen

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

If Orlando doesn't offer the their whole roster and every draft pick for the next 10 years, except for Dwight Howard, they should all be fired.

Chris Paul, Dwight Howard would be a juggernaut. You could play just about anyone with them.

Imagine if he goes to the Lakers though. Wow.

CP3, Kobe, Gasol vs. Lebron, Wade, Bosh


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## futuristxen

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Conversley New York should be trying just as hard as Orlando. CP3 with Amare in D'Antoni's system? Wow.


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## futuristxen

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

For me a healthy CP3 is pretty much like a shorter version of Lebron James. Second best player in the league on his day.


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## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™;6331423 said:


> Orlando needs to stop faking and do that. *Vince and every pick in the hair store...*


Throw in a bag of cheedos and you have a deal!


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## MemphisX

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I think Orlando needs to find another team that would be interested in Nelson in a 3-way deal. With Vinsanity's expiring deal, Gortat as a reasonably priced center, and Ryan Anderson as a really good sweetener they should be able to get something done.


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## Ron

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



futuristxen said:


> If Orlando doesn't offer the their whole roster and every draft pick for the next 10 years, except for Dwight Howard, they should all be fired.
> 
> Chris Paul, Dwight Howard would be a juggernaut. You could play just about anyone with them.
> 
> Imagine if he goes to the Lakers though. Wow.
> 
> CP3, Kobe, Gasol vs. Lebron, Wade, Bosh


We don't need Chris Paul. We already got Derek Fisher.

Right, Kenneth?


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## Ron

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Seriously, Chris Paul has got to know the Lakers don't have anyone to trade for him, and a point guard is principally useless in the triangle offense.

I would love to see him team up with Dwight Howard. Wouldn't that be something to see, every time Orlando played Miami?


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## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Yeah, Paul is a much better fit on Orlando or New York, if we trade for him we lose are size advantage.**** if that happens the East is going to be pretty damn exciting!


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## BG7

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I think Portland should make a push for him. They could put together an attractive package of young players. Bayless, Batum, Cunningham, Fernandez, and Oden for Paul works. Hornets get some young pieces while the Blazers get a core of Paul, Roy, and Aldridge.


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## Jakain

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Portland and New York both made offers for the Spurs' Tony Parker so I can see Portland on the phones with NOH as well...although everyone in the NBA should be if CP3 is on the block.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

What about Denver?

Paul, Okafor, Posey for Martin, Billups, Afflalo and picks.


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## MemphisX

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

And this is why New Jersey should have sat on their capspace...

Favors/Harris is still a great package.


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## LamarButler

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Rondo + Rasheed's retiring contract + picks for Chris Paul.


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## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I'd do Bynum, Sasha, resigned Shannon, the draft rights to Ebanks for Paul and Okafor. Okafor plays the 5 and we still have Pau at the 4 with LO off the bench.


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## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> I'd do Bynum, Sasha, resigned Shannon, the draft rights to Ebanks for Paul and Okafor. Okafor plays the 5 and we still have Pau at the 4 with LO off the bench.


Not every GM is Chris Wallace.


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## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Brooks, Ariza, Jeffries, and the 2011 Knicks pick for CP3.


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## Ballscientist

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

After Knicks get C Paul

Knicks can give T-Mac one year deal at $17M, then trade him/Multiple draft picks to Nugs for Melo.

Starters:

Paul
Anthony R
Melo
Curry
Amare


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## JerryWest

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Best package so far is from the Lakers (Bynum + expiring in Sasha + prospects). Rockets have good package of talent. The question is going to be who is going to take on Okafor's contract to get Paul. It makes the most sense for the Lakers and Magic who are over the cap anyways.


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## futuristxen

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Kenneth said:


> Best package so far is from the Lakers (Bynum + expiring in Sasha + prospects). Rockets have good package of talent. The question is going to be who is going to take on Okafor's contract to get Paul. It makes the most sense for the Lakers and Magic who are over the cap anyways.


Yeah I think if the Lakers want to get Paul they can. The question is whether they want him. Like someone said, he is kind of useless in the triangle. 

I imagine for New Orleans they will be looking to get rid of bad contracts, and get draft picks.

Houston could give a good package for him. And Paul would get to play with Yao in some incarnation. I don't know if that's good enough for him, but that would be a huge upgrade on the Hornets.

What about the Thunder?


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## Juggernaut

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I would love to see him play in Orlando with Howard

Emeka would come with and would be able to make a decent PF next to the best center in the game.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Building on what I wrote earlier...

Hornets trade: Paul, Posey, Okafor
Hornets obtain: Dampier, Martin, Lawson

Denver trades: Billups, Martin, Lawson
Denver obtains: Paul, Posey, Okafor

Bobcats trade: Dampier
Bobcats obtain: Billups

Adding the Bobcats allows the Hornets to get a non-guaranteed contract in Dampier, while the Bobcats get a quality point guard to re-unite with Larry Brown.


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## l0st1

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Ballscientist said:


> After Knicks get C Paul
> 
> Knicks can give T-Mac one year deal at $17M, then trade him/Multiple draft picks to Nugs for Melo.
> 
> Starters:
> 
> Paul
> Anthony R
> Melo
> Curry
> Amare


I hope this is a joke


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## afobisme

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

no chance my lakers will land paul  oh well.


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## tr1986

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

dampier and stephen jackson for paul and okafor. get it done, MJ.


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## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I don't know why he would list teams he has zero leverage right now.


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## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Orlando is the place I want to see him most. That would be insane. Can't think of two top 5 players who compliment each others game more than Paul and Dwight.


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## Babir

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Paul in Orlando...Otis has to offer everything and everybody (except Howard) to get him!


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## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



LamarButler said:


> Rondo + Rasheed's retiring contract + picks for Chris Paul.


Yeah, I think Boston's one of the few teams with the wherewithal to make a deal (namely a young, relatively cost controlled, highly marketable player). And if he really does want out Boston should be making a push for him as a means of reloading.


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## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



E.H. Munro said:


> Yeah, I think Boston's one of the few teams with the wherewithal to make a deal (namely a young, relatively cost controlled, highly marketable player). And if he really does want out Boston should be making a push for him as a means of reloading.


Wouldn't that be the biggest FU to Rondo's ego after the incident with Paul in Nov.


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## thaKEAF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

If he ended up in LA it's a wrap for the next few years.


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## Ballscientist

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

To All Friends,

Plese tell us how much Hornets will improve or how much Hornets will upgrade the point guard position after you make the trade proposals.

Thanks a lot.


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## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The league would be better off if the Knicks or Nets had gotten Paul..because they would've got LeBron too.


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## Diable

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

That was always the only real chance the Knicks or Nets really had at Lebron. They would have had to have somehow convinced Paul to force his way out of NOLA for one of those teams, which exactly what this cretin Wet and Slimy Wes was trying to do when he started the first of these Paul rumors. Lebron or these people did all they could to get him and Paul on the same team, without actually signing for the MLE in NOLA. 

In all likelihood he's the source of these rumors and it's entirely likely that they are just as valid as those prior rumors turned out to be.


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## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Game3525 said:


> Wouldn't that be the biggest FU to Rondo's ego after the incident with Paul in Nov.


Yes, and that's what would make it so funny. Especially after Boston went on to win the title. :bsmile:

Rondo reminds me of two players, one comparison good and the other terrifying. Game-wise he's the best PG garbageman since Fats Lever patrolled NBA courts. The bad part is that, personality wise, he reminds me of Antoine Walker's evil twin. He combines all of Walker's worst attributes without Walker's one strength (Walker did have the ability to keep things loose on the bench and in the clubhouse). He thinks he's a superstar-level talent, and he doesn't have the game to back it up. And he's of the opinion that the Celtics are his club and that everyone else should take a backseat. He does make all those Sportscenter highlight reel plays that the fans do love, though.


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## Seanzie

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Ballscientist said:


> To All Friends,
> 
> Plese tell us how much Hornets will improve or how much Hornets will upgrade the point guard position after you make the trade proposals.
> 
> Thanks a lot.


Just like every team improved through every trade?

How did the Grizzlies improve when they traded Pau?

How did the Lakers improve at center when they traded Shaq?

What about the Hornets trading Baron Davis for Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis?

Those are just a few examples. You almost always get ninety cents on the dollar... or worse.


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## Diable

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Rondo needs to go somewhere for coach Mark Jackson...Hilarity would ensue and I would not be listening to Pandora instead of the games...Well they'd obviously replace Jackson with another annoying moron.


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## kbdullah

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

and Mark Cuban instantly regrets his decision to trade that Dampier contract.

Still, Chandler, Butler, Stevenson, and Terry (i think it's a team option for next year, i'm not sure though) are expiring and we've got some interesting prospects, Roddy + Nique Jones. I'm sure Mark Cuban will put in a call, but chances of success is anyone's call right now.


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## Cap

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Spaceman Spiff said:


> Not every GM is Chris Wallace.





Spaceman Spiff said:


> Brooks, Ariza, Jeffries, and the 2011 Knicks pick for CP3.


I like how you make these two posts back-to-back. Your avatar is quite fitting. :laugh:


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## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Paul being dealt to Orlando or LA would mean more anticipation for the upcoming season than ever before (for me atleast). I'm already very excited. Paul to one of those teams would just guarantee league pass in my home for the first time.


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## f22egl

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

It will never happen but Rondo and stuff for CP3?


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## Mr. Hobbes

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Oh I called this ****. I said Lebron was setting a bad precedent for other players to follow his model, and people were like nah that's speculation. Now a few days later, Paul wants to be on a contender. Next year Carmelo will pull the same thing. 3 years later, Rondo's gonna demand a trade to a contender.


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## MemphisX

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

LeBron didn't set this trend. He just used FA instead of forcing his way out like others have done or acting a plum fool until management gets them some help. The history of the NBA is littered with big name players gravitating to play with each other. In the past LA would just flood small market teams with cash to get players/picks. Same with Boston. Too much media attention for teams to do that without an uproar (see Pau trade). But it is the standard in the NBA.


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## Mr. Hobbes

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

So you think it's a coincidence that Paul demands a trade only after the Miami gets a big 3 going. Hah. He sees three of his Team USA buddies collude, and he's like, no way I'm getting the short end.


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## futuristxen

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Paul being dealt to Orlando or LA would mean more anticipation for the upcoming season than ever before (for me atleast). I'm already very excited. Paul to one of those teams would just guarantee league pass in my home for the first time.


Yeah no kidding. I hope he goes to Orlando just because of how insane that would make the whole league. Lakers, Heat, Boston, Orlando--all of those games would be highly competitive and absolute mayhem.

Closest thing to the 80s when about 5 teams had all of the talent and just beat the snot out of one another.

I think that's the best thing for the NBA because we're such an event culture. If the NBA could have 4 really great teams with maybe two to three good teams, I think it could really become popular again.

Paul to New York would also be pretty cool because of Paul and Amare. But Paul and Howard would be pretty insane. I mean Paul made Chandler look like an All-star. Dwight would be unstoppable with Paul.


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## futuristxen

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Chan said:


> Oh I called this ****. I said Lebron was setting a bad precedent for other players to follow his model, and people were like nah that's speculation. Now a few days later, Paul wants to be on a contender. Next year Carmelo will pull the same thing. 3 years later, Rondo's gonna demand a trade to a contender.


It's actually a good thing. You want the best players on the best teams playing each other.


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## Idunkonyou

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

All signs are pointing that he gets dealt to the Magic. New York has nothing to offer and couldn't/wouldn't take Okafor's contract back. The Lakers really have nothing to offer either.

The Magic can pretty much give the Hornets what they want. Draft picks, cap space and young players. I'm guessing the deal that ends up happening is Carter/Gortat/Anderson/1st rounder for Paul/Okafor. Then the Magic deal Nelson some where for a SG/SF type or the Magic bring in a 3rd team before they deal for Paul so that is all goes down at once, plus the Hornets could get even more pieces from that 3rd team.

If he does get dealt to the Magic, the state of Florida would have arguably 4 out of the best 5 players in the league (Wade, Lebron, Paul and Howard).


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## Mr. Hobbes

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



futuristxen said:


> It's actually a good thing. You want the best players on the best teams playing each other.


No, you do. Like a lot of fans, I would want my home team to succeed instead of the Heat, or the Knicks, or whatever other team I don't root for.


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## futuristxen

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Chan said:


> No, you do. Like a lot of fans, I would want my home team to succeed instead of the Heat, or the Knicks, or whatever other team I don't root for.


You're a hardcore fan. The NBA isn't going to lose you no matter what. I'm talking about the casual fan that stopped watching Basketball when Jordan retired. You make these games big events again like they used to be on NBC, and people will come back.


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## hroz

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Martin+Jeffries

Paul+Posey

Yao/Miller
Scola/Hill/Hayes
Ariza/Posey
Battier/Budinger
Paul/Brooks/Lowry

Thats a crazy rotation.


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## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The Knicks have the best combination of young players to trade but unless they can find a third team to take Okafor's contract I doubt they trade for him.


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## f22egl

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Well you have T-Mac, Shaq, Vince Carter, KG, Allen Iverson, Paul Pierce, and Kobe at one time or the other demanding a trade.


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## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The Nets can make the best offer. I certainly wouldn't mind Orlando though.


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## Seanzie

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

False. The Magic have the pieces to offer New Orleans whatever they want and give Paul what he wants (a title contender).

Cap space (VC, Pietrus), young talent (Nelson, Gortat, Orton, Anderson), draft picks. If a third team gets involved, New Orleans could get even more in the way of expirings and draft picks. I guess it depends on what they want.

In a league where the Lakers are the Lakers, and the Heat now have LeBron/Wade/Bosh, the Magic need to keep up. New York has nothing to offer. Paul doesn't fit in LA. He doesn't want to go to a noncontender, so that wipes out New Jersey. Houston makes sense, but does New Orleans want to be chained to guys like Aaron Brooks and Luis Scola for an extended period of time?

If Paul gets traded, I think he's going to Orlando. Otherwise, he's staying in NOLA.


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## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Yeah, and I dont get all the fuss with NY... Is CP3/Amare even THAT much better than CP3/West? Sure Amare is a little better than West, but Idk how much better overall NY's cast is than what he's leaving in N.O... especially considering NY needs to trade young assets like Gallo, ect., to even get Paul? Idk man, there team would be gutted and there are still holes in the middle. We've learned success is largley dependent on defense and the supporting cast. It would be a project in NY, just like what he's leaving in N.O. imo. BUt i'm biased, so maybe NY does have the best package.

Orlando, imo any trade scenario I think we'd have the least hole's @ the end of the day... Most likely we'd still have Shard on the team who is top notch role player, along with guys like JJ, Q-Rich, Duhon, Bass. A core of Paul/Shard/Dwight is not bad though. We'd lose some depth, but that would probably be the 2nd best trio, and it is capable to win now. If Paul wants to win now Orlando is probably the best fit but Idk think he has a trade clause, so he might not get what he asks for... 

LA, they might be able to get him but they dont have a large expiring so they're behind, and the Triangle doesn't seem like a PG centric offense.. If NO is really sold on Bynum than LA has a chance, but I dont see the fit that much either way... I can see why Paul wants to go there, but Bynums contract is worse than Pauls and I just dont see it happening.


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## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Chan said:


> So you think it's a coincidence that Paul demands a trade only after the Miami gets a big 3 going. Hah. He sees three of his Team USA buddies collude, and he's like, no way I'm getting the short end.


Vince Carter, Baron Davis, Kobe Bryant, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, any of these names ringing a bell?


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## seifer0406

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

It's really a wash I think between Orlando and NY. Orlando may be a better win-now situation for Paul but NY has better trade chips because they can absorb more salary. I like Gortat and Ryan Anderson but nobody is flipping out because of those 2 and Gortat's contract is too long anyway.

I also get the feeling that Paul wants to play in NY because of the city more than he wants to play in Orlando. NY might not be a contender next year but it would be easier for them to add pieces down the road because of their financial flexibility and the fact that they can spend more money than any team.


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## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Idunkonyou said:


> The Magic can pretty much give the Hornets what they want. Draft picks, cap space and young players. I'm guessing the deal that ends up happening is Carter/Gortat/Anderson/1st rounder for Paul/Okafor.


Not even Jameer Nelson? You think the best that N'awlins can do for Chris Paul is a mediocre center and two picks in the 28-30 range? Really? Were you a Knicks fan before hopping on the Magic Bandwagon? :bsmile:


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## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Blue Magic said:


> Sure Amare is a little better than West.


And Hitler was kinda grouchy.


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## Jakain

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Imo it'll be like the Miami situation. CP3 wants to go where there are 2 other stars (or space for 'em) on the team so they can form their own dream team and I think New York's the only ballclub that can make it happen in a season or so. Or join LA where there's Kobe and Gasol already. All the rumormongering seems to be focused on another big 3 forming up in NYC though (Melo's wedding comes to mind) but time will tell. That knee surgery and seeing his friends join up in Miami must have spurred some kind of midlife crisis revelation thing going on.

As for super teams and how they affect the NBA; it makes the NBA more entertaining and popular to watch especially if another popular ballclub becomes truly relevant again like the Knicks. Thats one of the major reasons why the Finals these past three years have been great ratings-wise: Lakers and Boston were back to their championship rivalry days. Sucks if your team is left out in the dust but we should all be fans of incredible basketball in addition to homerism imo.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Sort of an update on this.



> The New York Knicks, Orlando Magic and Los Angeles Lakers are on Paul's list of preferred destinations, sources told CBSSports.com. The sources said members of Paul's "inner circle" have told the Hornets the guard wants out in part because "he feels like they haven't put the right pieces together."
> 
> *Sources told Broussard on Thursday that the Knicks and Magic are on Paul's list of preferred destinations, but the Lakers are not. Sources told Broussard that the Portland Trail Blazers and Dallas Mavericks are also in the running if Paul were to be traded*.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5399241


----------



## Ron

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



thaKEAF said:


> If he ended up in LA it's a wrap for the next few years.


It's a wrap anyway, we don't need Paul. We have Fisher.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Organized Chaos said:


> Sort of an update on this.
> 
> 
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5399241


Actually, I heard on ESPN radio this morning that the Lakers are now NOT on his list, but it didn't matter anyway, the money and trade talk doesn't work for the Lakers.

I really REALLY want to see him go to Orlando so that the Heat's sphincter can tighten a little bit.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I know. That's why I bolded the second paragraph haha.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The summer of 2010 needs to end.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



> Spoke to #Knicks source. Saying The #Knicks are offering Chandler, Randolph,Azubuike, Turiaf, and The Mid Level to NO for CP and E.O.


AnthonyMSG


----------



## HB

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Would be deadly on the Magic, and they have some pieces that might entice Nawlins'


----------



## Jakain

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

If Orlando doesn't get CP3....Dwight needs to leave that team.


----------



## HEATLUNATIC

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Why would the Hornets trade Paul to the Magic when he doesnt have a no-trade clause? If your trading a super-star like Paul you have to receive a young stud in return...its not up for debate! Cap space and role players isnt nearly enough...I dont care how desperate they are to dump salary!


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Well... I don't really see Orlando panning out. I don't think the Hornets would prefer Nelson to the some of the younger, cheaper, pg's the other teams can offer. Plus, NOH already has Darren Collison, so they might prefer a package of non-pg young talent. If that's the case,

NY can offer : 

Danilo Gallinari
Wilson Chandler
Anthony Randolph
Toney Douglas (PG)

Dallas can offer : 

Dominique Jones
Roddy Beaubois (PG)

Portland can offer :

Rudy Fernandez
Wesley Matthews
Nicolas Batum
Jerryd Bayless (PG)

So I would think that the Knicks and Blazers would be the front-runners based on the amount of young talent they could offer in exchange.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



E.H. Munro said:


> And Hitler was kinda grouchy.


Lol, and where's the defense coming from?? West, AMare, idc, that defense is still a problem... It's the same problem he had in N.O.. He say's he wants to win now, but NY is more of a project imo. They would need to pray they either get Carmelo next summer, or get a Center who can check Dwight a little bit.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Super Friends said:


> Why would the Hornets trade Paul to the Magic when he doesnt have a no-trade clause? If your trading a super-star like Paul you have to receive a young stud in return...its not up for debate! Cap space and role players isnt nearly enough...I dont care how desperate they are to dump salary!


because they have a young pg behind him in Collison so if they can trade a disgruntled Paul to get some young pieces and start fresh, then it makes sense.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Paul is not a Free Agent next year.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Blue Magic said:


> Lol, and where's the defense coming from??


Not from West, that's for damned sure.



kbdullah said:


> because Chris Paul is a FA next year and if they don't trade him now, they will get nothing. The real question is whether the receiving team is going to be able to get CP3 to sign an extension.


Paul is a free agent the summer of 2012, not next year.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

you're right, he's not FA till the year after. i'll edit.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Super Friends said:


> Why would the Hornets trade Paul to the Magic when he doesnt have a no-trade clause? If your trading a super-star like Paul you have to receive a young stud in return...its not up for debate! Cap space and role players isnt nearly enough...I dont care how desperate they are to dump salary!


You are never going to get equal value for a superstar, and I believe the Hornets have financial problems, so going after expiring contracts may be ideal.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Game3525 said:


> You are never going to get equal value for a superstar, and I believe the Hornets have financial problems, so going after expiring contracts may be ideal.


Their financial problems are overblown. They're no longer in luxury tax land. They may be trading Paul, but it will be because he demands it. So they'll have suitors offering them more than garbage.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



kbdullah said:


> Well... I don't really see Orlando panning out. I don't think the Hornets would prefer Nelson to the some of the younger, cheaper, pg's the other teams can offer. Plus, NOH already has Darren Collison, so they might prefer a package of non-pg young talent. If that's the case,
> 
> NY can offer :
> 
> Danilo Gallinari
> Wilson Chandler
> Anthony Randolph
> Toney Douglas (PG)
> 
> Dallas can offer :
> 
> Dominique Jones
> Roddy Beaubois (PG)
> 
> Portland can offer :
> 
> Rudy Fernandez
> Wesley Matthews
> Nicolas Batum
> Jerryd Bayless (PG)
> 
> So I would think that the Knicks and Blazers would be the front-runners based on the amount of young talent they could offer in exchange.


Knicks would suck if they traded all those guys... Well, maybe not suck but I dont think they would be a contender. He'd be better off just staying in N.O. a few more years(not unless the Knicks have other moves up their sleeve, cuz in this scenario they trade all of their good depth). The Blazers would be a much better situation imo, but Magic could offer something closer to that.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

If Paul is serious about teaming up in his own trio of stars, he gets Carmelo Anthony to give a promise to sign with the Knicks next summer if Amare and Paul are in place. That means getting New Orleans to agree to a trade that doesn't involve Okafor's millstone of a contract being involved and the Knicks holding onto most, if not all, of their expiring contracts. It probably has to be Raymond Felton to a third team, Chris Paul to the Knicks, and Gallo, Randolph, the third teams expiring, and one or two or prospects from the third team to New Orleans.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Blue Magic said:


> Knicks would suck if they traded all those guys... Well, maybe not suck but I dont think they would be a contender. He'd be better off just staying in N.O. a few more years(not unless the Knicks have other moves up their sleeve, cuz in this scenario they trade all of their good depth). The Blazers would be a much better situation imo, but Magic could offer something closer to that.


I just think as a Magic fan, you'd be afraid to see that happen because the Knicks would leap-frog the Magic. You seem to forget that D'Antoni made the 2nd round of the playoffs with a starting lineup of Steve Nash, Raja Bell, Shawn Marion, Tim Thomas and Boris Diaw. His entire system is predicated on making the most of little next to a star caliber PG. With Paul and Amar'e in tow, the Knicks are going to at least the 2nd round and may still have money to pursue Melo in free agency.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Bogg said:


> If Paul is serious about teaming up in his own trio of stars, he gets Carmelo Anthony to give a promise to sign with the Knicks next summer if Amare and Paul are in place. That means getting New Orleans to agree to a trade that doesn't involve Okafor's millstone of a contract being involved and the Knicks holding onto most, if not all, of their expiring contracts. It probably has to be Raymond Felton to a third team, Chris Paul to the Knicks, and Gallo, Randolph, the third teams expiring, and one or two or prospects from the third team to New Orleans.


The Knicks are still $5 million below the cap. Assuming they move Felton's $8 million per year contract for cap space, they would have enough to sign Melo outright starting at $14-$15 million per year.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

It's days like this where I enjoy rooting for a guy like Deron Williams. These guys don't seem to realize only one team can win per year.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> The Knicks are still $5 million below the cap. Assuming they move Felton's $8 million per year contract for cap space, they would have enough to sign Melo outright starting at $14-$15 million per year.


That was the gist of my post. By holding onto their expiring contracts and instead trading away young talent and the no-longer-needed Felton they can retain the flexibility to sign Melo, hence securing the promise in the first place. Unlikely as it is, the Knicks probably have the best young talent to offer, as New Orleans already has two talented young guards in Collison and Thornton, but doesn't have a small forward of note and David West already has one foot out the door. Gallo and Randolph actually would fill two huge needs for their rebuilding process.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> The Knicks are still $5 million below the cap. Assuming they move Felton's $8 million per year contract for cap space, they would have enough to sign Melo outright starting at $14-$15 million per year.


Not with Okafor & Paul along with Amare. Those three alone will make around $49 million next year. Unless you expect the salary cap to increase by 20% or so, 'Melo would need to take an over-the-MLE deal to join them. And that's presuming they jettisoned everyone left on rookie scale.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Bogg said:


> That was the gist of my post. By holding onto their expiring contracts and instead trading away young talent and the no-longer-needed Felton they can retain the flexibility to sign Melo, hence securing the promise in the first place. Unlikely as it is, the Knicks probably have the best young talent to offer, as New Orleans already has two talented young guards in Collison and Thornton, but doesn't have a small forward of note and David West already has one foot out the door. Gallo and Randolph actually would fill two huge needs for their rebuilding process.


But what I'm saying is that your not going to get the Hornets to agree to a deal that doesn't send Okafor's awful contract back in a deal. In either case, we'd still have the ability to acquire him and still have that $14 million left for Carmelo, assuming that we can move Felton to a different team for cap space.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



E.H. Munro said:


> Not with Okafor & Paul along with Amare. Those three alone will make around $49 million next year. Unless you expect the salary cap to increase by 20% or so, 'Melo would need to take an over-the-MLE deal to join them. And that's presuming they jettisoned everyone left on rookie scale.


Okay, if you insist. Assuming we move Felton for cap space, Amar'e is the only player on the team that will see a raise in pay that would not necessarily be traded. The increase is estimated at about $2 million. Let's do the math...

Chris Paul...$16.4 million
Amar'e Stoudamire...$18 million
Emeka Okafor....$12.5 million

Total: $46.9 million

The cap this year was set at $58 million. Assume that it jumps that incremental $2 million ($60 million cap) that it has the past few years and that leaves about $13 million for Carmelo. You don't think that's enough money for him to agree? If he follows the "unmentionable one who left Cleveland for Miami," and Chris Bosh path of a sign and trade, that means he could receive a starting salary of about $16.25 million Why? Because in trades, incoming salaries can be 25% more than outgoing salaries. 25% of $13 million is $3.25 million. You don't think that's enough money?


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Blue Magic said:


> Knicks would suck if they traded all those guys... Well, maybe not suck but I dont think they would be a contender. He'd be better off just staying in N.O. a few more years(not unless the Knicks have other moves up their sleeve, cuz in this scenario they trade all of their good depth). The Blazers would be a much better situation imo, but Magic could offer something closer to that.


nah, i'm not saying they'd trade all their young pieces, i'm just saying in general what they have available to offer in case a bidding war ensues.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> It's days like this where I enjoy rooting for a guy like Deron Williams. These guys don't seem to realize only one team can win per year.


Deron Williams actually has a franchise that is willing to put the players in place to compete. You can't say the same for Chris Paul. You can't blame him for being a winner and not being willing to settle for 2nd best.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> The cap this year was set at $58 million. Assume that it jumps that incremental $2 million ($60 million cap) that it has the past few years and that leaves about $13 million for Carmelo. You don't think that's enough money for him to agree? If he follows the "unmentionable one who left Cleveland for Miami," and Chris Bosh path of a sign and trade, that means he could receive a starting salary of about $16.25 million Why? Because in trades, incoming salaries can be 25% more than outgoing salaries. 25% of $13 million is $3.25 million. You don't think that's enough money?


How does New York get the extra $3.25 million under the cap again? They can only pay up 100% of the cap, not 105%. 100%. If Anthony is making $16 million, then New York needs to be $16 million under the cap.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> It's days like this where I enjoy rooting for a guy like Deron Williams. These guys don't seem to realize only one team can win per year.


I can already tell you that Boston's planning a major run at Williams in the summer of '12. One of their conditions in pursuing free agents this summer is that anyone signing here had to be willing to accept two years. They wouldn't give Ray Allen three, and let Tony Allen walk because he wanted the third year. They've basically cleared everyone but Pierce & Rondo off the books for that summer.


----------



## Sleepepro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> It's days like this where I enjoy rooting for a guy like Deron Williams. These guys don't seem to realize only one team can win per year.


Williams was pretty pissed too about the lack of moves that Utah did until they got Jefferson, so it's not like he hasn't entertained the thought of leaving outright through free-agency


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> Deron Williams actually has a franchise that is willing to put the players in place to compete. You can't say the same for Chris Paul. You can't blame him for being a winner and not being willing to settle for 2nd best.


Hornets won 56 games in 2008 (lost in the WC Semis)
Hornets won 49 games in 2009 (lost in the WC Quarters)
Hornets won 37 games in 2010 (Paul missed 45 games)

The Hornets are a playoff contender with Chris Paul. There isn't a championship contender in the West other than the Lakers if Denver and Portland aren't healthy (which they haven't proven to be). So, what is the problem again?

In comparison with Utah, the Jazz have lost the last three years in a row to the Lakers (twice in the Conference Semis and once in the conference quarters. They are 3-12 against the Lakers the last three years). 

To me, this is another I'm taking my ball and going home scenario. As bad an owner as Shinn is (and he's very bad), he did put a playoff team around Paul (if he's healthy).


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Sleepepro said:


> Williams was pretty pissed too about the lack of moves that Utah did until they got Jefferson, so it's not like he hasn't entertained the thought of leaving outright through free-agency


Ummm, Deron said he would wait to see what moves his franchise made. He's not going to just abandon them, he's going to be patient and see what they can do like any rational person would. Then again, Deron is a leader. This is the same guy who never bitched about being snubbed two years in a row from all-star consideration.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



E.H. Munro said:


> How does New York get the extra $3.25 million under the cap again? They can only pay up 100% of the cap, not 105%. 100%. If Anthony is making $16 million, then New York needs to be $16 million under the cap.


Not if it is a sign and trade. If it is a sign and trade, then the rules of trades apply. Rules state that a team may receive up to 125% of the amount of money that they are moving. Technically speaking the value of our cap space becomes a trade exception, an amount being sent out in a deal. 25% of $13 million is $3.25 million, hence the Knicks being able to pay $16.25 million to start for Melo IF the Nuggets agree to a sign and trade which they likely will.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



E.H. Munro said:


> I can already tell you that Boston's planning a major run at Williams in the summer of '12. One of their conditions in pursuing free agents this summer is that anyone signing here had to be willing to accept two years. They wouldn't give Ray Allen three, and let Tony Allen walk because he wanted the third year. They've basically cleared everyone but Pierce & Rondo off the books for that summer.


So are they going to move Rondo because Williams and Rondo play the same position?


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> Hornets won 56 games in 2008 (lost in the WC Semis)
> Hornets won 49 games in 2009 (lost in the WC Quarters)
> Hornets won 37 games in 2010 (Paul missed 45 games)
> 
> The Hornets are a playoff contender with Chris Paul. There isn't a championship contender in the West other than the Lakers if Denver and Portland aren't healthy (which they haven't proven to be). So, what is the problem again?
> 
> In comparison with Utah, the Jazz have lost the last three years in a row to the Lakers (twice in the Conference Semis and once in the conference quarters. They are 3-12 against the Lakers the last three years).
> 
> To me, this is another I'm taking my ball and going home scenario. As bad an owner as Shinn is (and he's very bad), he did put a playoff team around Paul (if he's healthy).


The fact of the matter is that all the playoff teams in the West have proven that they are good enough to take injuries to key players and still make the playoffs (Portland, Spurs and Utah are prime examples). Injuries are a part of the game that equally effects any team. There are no excuses for the Hornets especially when you consider that even when healthy, they started the season 3-6 and won only 51% of the games Chris Paul did play in. The fact of the matter is that it is not about what you did 3 years but what you can do now. With the top 8 seeds all pretty much in the same condition as before, I don't see the Hornets wiggling in. They are not even gauranteed to finish 9th in the West with teams like the Rockets and Grizzlies getting better. The Hornets have no hope and are unwilling to put up the money to even remain as a lameduck franchise. As a result, I can't blame Paul for wanting a trade.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> Ummm, Deron said he would wait to see what moves his franchise made. He's not going to just abandon them, he's going to be patient and see what they can do like any rational person would. Then again, Deron is a leader. This is the same guy who never bitched about being snubbed two years in a row from all-star consideration.


As much as the Jazz made a few moves for cap purposes, i.e. Eric Maynor to move Hapring's contract and trading Brewer, the Jazz have proven to be good enough to be able to trim that fat without impacting results. The Hornets are not good enough and yet have been willing to sacrifice key role players for cap purposes. You tell me how these situations are the same.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Houston didn't make the playoffs in 2010. Phoenix didn't make the playoffs in 2009. There are 11 teams with playoff aspirations in the West as we speak (Lakers, Jazz, Mavs, Spurs, Blazers, Rockets, Nuggets, Thunder, Suns, Hornets, Grizzlies). Someone is going to miss the playoffs. It just might be the Jazz too. Nothing is guaranteed. In case you didn't realize it, last year 8 teams won 50 games, 10 teams won 40 and 11 won 37. 

The reason why the Jazz were able to win that amount of games is because Deron Williams played like a first team All-NBA player (although he wasn't rewarded with that position). That Jazz team had no business winning 53 games with CJ Miles and Wes Matthews in the starting lineup.

I guess maybe Chris Paul isn't as great as people think he is, based on his stats. Because I don't see a major difference between the Jazz roster, the Hornets roster, the Rockets roster, the Grizzlies roster or the Nuggets roster.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> Houston didn't make the playoffs in 2010. Phoenix didn't make the playoffs in 2009. There are 11 teams with playoff aspirations in the West as we speak (Lakers, Jazz, Mavs, Spurs, Blazers, Rockets, Nuggets, Thunder, Suns, Hornets, Grizzlies). Someone is going to miss the playoffs. It just might be the Jazz too. Nothing is guaranteed. In case you didn't realize it, last year 8 teams won 50 games, 10 teams won 40 and 11 won 37.
> 
> The reason why the Jazz were able to win that amount of games is because Deron Williams played like a first team All-NBA player (although he wasn't rewarded with that position). That Jazz team had no business winning 53 games with CJ Miles and Wes Matthews in the starting lineup.


I'm not saying that the Hornets won't compete for a spot in the playoffs with Chris Paul. But if all your talking about is competing to get into the playoffs, how realistic is it that you'll do anything while your there? You can attempt to criticize the Jazz all you want but they made the playoffs in 2008-2009 even with Carlos Boozer hurt and playing sub-par for most of the season. They simply did not need him, which is why Millsap was dubbed the err apparent and why Jefferson will more than suffice in helping that team contend.

P.S., Houston damn near made the playoffs without T-Mac and Yao all season. They've since added Kevin Martin and will be bringing back that same supporting cast, including Yao Ming. You guys simply are not better than they are, even if healthy.


----------



## HB

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

What the NBA has taught me is that you dont have to honor your contract...once things get rough, best to bail. I pity the little teams, this doesn't bode well for them. OKC should be grateful Durant is a great guy (for now).


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Williams is going to be asking out soon too, FOH.

Al Jefferson and Gordon Hayward isn't going to keep him from wanting to actually compete past the second round.


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

lebrons bitch ass on twitter "Best of luck to my brother @oneandonlycp3. Do what's best for You and your family". As if that 15 million dollar contract is gonna be a hindrance on helping out his family


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

LeBron's secretly wishing it was Paul instead of Bosh somehow.


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

heh my buddy woke me up hella early this morning with a text saying "Chris Paul to Portland!" he just heard one of the rumors and felt like throwin it in my face. Realistically though, Portland would be the optimal choice for me, considering the amount of talent that can be returned via trade, and the close proximity I am to portland so I can go boo my ass off and in turn get jumped by blazer fans.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> So are they going to move Rondo because Williams and Rondo play the same position?


Who would you rather have Deron or Rondo?


----------



## Jayps15

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> Okay, if you insist. Assuming we move Felton for cap space, Amar'e is the only player on the team that will see a raise in pay that would not necessarily be traded. The increase is estimated at about $2 million. Let's do the math...
> 
> Chris Paul...$16.4 million
> Amar'e Stoudamire...$18 million
> Emeka Okafor....$12.5 million
> 
> Total: $46.9 million
> 
> The cap this year was set at $58 million. Assume that it jumps that incremental $2 million ($60 million cap) that it has the past few years and that leaves about $13 million for Carmelo. You don't think that's enough money for him to agree? If he follows the "unmentionable one who left Cleveland for Miami," and Chris Bosh path of a sign and trade, that means he could receive a starting salary of about $16.25 million Why? Because in trades, incoming salaries can be 25% more than outgoing salaries. 25% of $13 million is $3.25 million. You don't think that's enough money?


There would also be a minimum of approx 4.5mil in cap holds held against the Knicks salary cap because of a lack of filled roster spots. Every empty roster spot below 12 is a roster charge equal to the rookie minimum salary of about 500k.

So instead of having 13mil that makes closer to 9mil...


----------



## Jayps15

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Knicks4life said:


> Spoke to #Knicks source. Saying The #Knicks are offering Chandler, Randolph,Azubuike, Turiaf, and The Mid Level to NO for CP and E.O.
> 
> 
> 
> AnthonyMSG
Click to expand...

Whomever that source was doesn't know what they're talking about, you can't 'offer the mid level' in a trade, especially when the Knicks don't have a mid-level exception this offseason to begin with.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HB said:


> What the NBA has taught me is that you dont have to honor your contract...once things get rough, best to bail. I pity the little teams, this doesn't bode well for them. OKC should be grateful Durant is a great guy (for now).


I feel sorry for no franchise. If they had the power, they'd do worse things like they do in the NFL by cutting players to avoid paying them or freely restructing "contracts." Let's not even talk about the players pension, which has screwed a great many former NFL stars out of benefits they desperately need.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> I'm not saying that the Hornets won't compete for a spot in the playoffs with Chris Paul. But if all your talking about is competing to get into the playoffs, how realistic is it that you'll do anything while your there? You can attempt to criticize the Jazz all you want but they made the playoffs in 2008-2009 even with Carlos Boozer hurt, and are playing sub-par for most of the season. They simply did not need him, which is why Millsap was dubbed the err apparent and why Jefferson will more than suffice in helping that team contend.
> 
> P.S., Houston damn near made the playoffs without T-Mac and Yao all season. They've since added Kevin Martin and will be bringing back that same supporting cast, including Yao Ming. You guys simply are not better than they are, even if healthy.


I watch every Utah game (Deron's my favorite player). You guys need to understand, only one team can win per year. Asking out to go where? The Lakers? The Celtics? Where are these guys all going to go? This isn't little league where everyone gets a trophy. I think Deron understands full-well what Utah is trying to build and he also said he would be patient. If Kobe is still playing at a first team All-NBA level (which he has been) with the two twin towers who in the West can beat them? 

To me, other than a healthy Portland squad, nobody. Chris Paul needing to link up with Dwight Howard would say a lot about him (especially considering his fans think he's already better than Howard). I wonder why Howard isn't asking for a trade to New Orleans. 

And don't anyone dare say that Orlando's management is better than New Orleans because the difference between the two franchises is Orlando getting the #1 pick three times (Shaq, Webber for Penny, Howard).


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Jayps15 said:


> There would also be a minimum of approx 4.5mil in cap holds held against the Knicks salary cap because of a lack of filled roster spots. Every empty roster spot below 12 is a roster charge equal to the rookie minimum salary of about 500k.
> 
> So instead of having 13mil that makes closer to 9mil...


Uh, that might be true if it wasn't wrong. If you didn't notice, the Heat had only 2 players (Chalmers and Beasley) under contract before the "big 3" signed. NBA regulations stipulate that a team must have a minimum of 12 or 13 players on a roster and that the payroll must exceed $41 million. That's about it with regard to concerns the Knicks would face in this given scenario. With Melo, Paul and Amar'e in tow, you'd have veterans coming out of the woodwork looking to sign for the minimum as they did with the Heat. I have no doubt the Knicks could field a roster of 12 players.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> I feel sorry for no franchise. If they had the power, they'd do worse things like they do in the NFL by cutting players to avoid paying them or freely restructing "contracts." Let's not even talk about the players pension, which has screwed a great many former NFL stars out of benefits they desperately need.


The NBA isn't the NFL and the NBA pension is quite adequate. The NBA needs a hard-cap period.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Game3525 said:


> Who would you rather have Deron or Rondo?


Depends on my roster and what I want to do offensively. Those two are near equal's if they play their respective styles of basketball.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> I watch every Utah game (Deron's my favorite player). You guys need to understand, only one team can win per year. Asking out to go where? The Lakers? The Celtics? Where are these guys all going to go? This isn't little league where everyone gets a trophy. I think Deron understands full-well what Utah is trying to build and he also said he would be patient. If Kobe is still playing at a first team All-NBA level (which he has been) with the two twin towers who in the West can beat them?
> 
> To me, other than a healthy Portland squad, nobody. Chris Paul needing to link up with Dwight Howard would say a lot about him (especially considering his fans think he's already better than Howard). I wonder why Howard isn't asking for a trade to New Orleans.
> 
> And don't anyone dare say that Orlando's management is better than New Orleans because the difference between the two franchises is Orlando getting the #1 pick three times (Shaq, Webber for Penny, Howard).


Dude, if you can't see the difference between the Hornets situation and Utah's, then I can't help you. The Jazz are competitive every year. The Hornets figure to only be a possible playoff team. All Paul want's is a roster that can consistently compete, which is what the Jazz are and the Hornets are not (check last season).

The Thunder could possibly beat the Lakers. They won't but they cause a host of mismatches that the Lakers have difficulty countering. Add to the fact that Durant won't be shooting 30-some odd % in the playoffs again and I think the Thunder are serious contenders.

And the Magic management IS better than the Hornets. Forget, Shaq and Webber. You said it yourself, Paul is a better player than Howard and yet the Magic are the better team. Why? Magic mangement were competent enough to put together a competitive roster independent of any influence of the former no.1 overall picks they had.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> The NBA isn't the NFL and the NBA pension is quite adequate. The NBA needs a hard-cap period.


And you have the players union to thank for fighting for the players pension and forcing franchise's to honor their contract. If those franchise's had the opportunity, they would without a doubt take advantage of players. Just sucks for the owners now because the players union prevents that from happening.

I also think a hard-cap is absurd. Why would it be necessary? Clearly most of these teams are not hurting for cash having committed to more than a $1 billion this past free agency. Without the players, those owners wouldn't have a product that would yield many billions of dollars more for them.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> I just think as a Magic fan, you'd be afraid to see that happen because the Knicks would leap-frog the Magic. You seem to forget that D'Antoni made the 2nd round of the playoffs with a starting lineup of Steve Nash, Raja Bell, Shawn Marion, Tim Thomas and Boris Diaw. His entire system is predicated on making the most of little next to a star caliber PG. With Paul and Amar'e in tow, the Knicks are going to at least the 2nd round and may still have money to pursue Melo in free agency.


Afraid? Haha. Chris Paul and Amare is nice dont get me wrong, but that team has no one to check Dwight and they simply dont have enough firepower by themselves to outscore teams. I'm not afraid of them unless were to get Melo, cause then they dont need to stop us they could just outscore us. It's just like with Miami, I wasn't really 'scared' of them with just Wade & Bosh, but when you put LeBron in the picture it's a different caliber of team. They dont need to stop us with that roster anymore, than can just exploit their advantages on the other end easily... 

I'm not afraid of Chris Paul & Amare by themselves, cause our D is good enough to contain them and our offense is good enough to keep up. Sure NY most likely is a top 4 team in the east, but I dont see why I need to be 'afraid'. They would be nice, but not THAT nice. Definitely not if they're trading all of their decent role players like Randolph & Gallo, like I said. Magic could trade some depth still has the core personnel in tact that is ready to win now, like he wants. Not when Melo gets here, not two years from now when they fill out the holes, but right now. NY doesn't have a winning recipe right now. They need to get back the playoffs first, and then they would need to get Melo imo... Then I would be 'afraid', 'nervous', or whatever you want to call me. Not to be cocky, that's just how I feel. Miami, Boston, Orlando, all those guys I still like over NY right now


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> Depends on my roster and what I want to do offensively. Those two are near equal's if they play their respective styles of basketball.


I disagree, Williams is much better then Rondo, and is easier to build around. Rondo is good, but he is not as good as some think.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The Jazz don't have the means to build a team that's going to beat the Lakers in the next 2-3 years.

I can't wait to see what you say when he leaves or asks out.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

If Paul was healthy last year, the Hornets would be in the playoffs. That's the part you're not getting. In '09 when the Nuggets were bitch-slapping the Hornets, the Lakers were doing the same thing to the #8 seeded Jazz. Do you not see the difference being that neither team is a title contender? The Jazz are just lucky they drafted a guy who will not miss half a year due to injury. 

If Paul plays 70 games (that would mean an extra 33), the Hornets should at least win half of them, which would have put them on pace for 53 wins. Now if they couldn't do that, maybe Paul isn't as good as you all think.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> The Jazz don't have the means to build a team that's going to beat the Lakers in the next 2-3 years.
> 
> I can't wait to see what you say when he leaves or asks out.


Exactly who said they did?


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> And the Magic management IS better than the Hornets. Forget, Shaq and Webber. You said it yourself, Paul is a better player than Howard and yet the Magic are the better team. Why? Magic mangement were competent enough to put together a competitive roster independent of any influence of the former no.1 overall picks they had.


Paul is only better than Howard if we don't care about winning ball games. Get the **** out of here with this nonsense. The fact that you honestly think this Orlando team would be that great without Howard is preposterous. If they had got Okafor instead of Howard, they would be a middling team getting knocked out of the first round year in and year out.

CHRIS PAUL is NOT BETTER than Dwight Howard.


----------



## Jayps15

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> Uh, that might be true if it wasn't wrong. If you didn't notice, the Heat had only 2 players (Chalmers and Beasley) under contract before the "big 3" signed. NBA regulations stipulate that a team must have a minimum of 12 or 13 players on a roster and that the payroll must exceed $41 million. That's about it with regard to concerns the Knicks would face in this given scenario. With Melo, Paul and Amar'e in tow, you'd have veterans coming out of the woodwork looking to sign for the minimum as they did with the Heat. I have no doubt the Knicks could field a roster of 12 players.


http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q14



> 14. Exactly what is included when computing total team salaries?
> 
> When determining team salaries (for example, to determine whether a team is over the salary cap), the following are included:
> 
> * Salaries of all active and inactive players, including likely bonuses.
> * Salaries paid or payable to waived players, minus any set-off amounts (see question number 57).
> * Any salary still being paid to retired players (see question number 55).
> * Amounts paid or expected to be paid in conjunction with certain grievances.
> * Salaries in contracts that have been agreed to but not yet executed (i.e., verbal agreements or agreements pending physicals). Note: During the July Moratorium (see question number 93), teams may not enter into verbal or written agreements. Therefore any agreements that are stuck during the moratorium are still characterized as negotiations, and do not count as team salary.
> * A percentage of the previous salary of unrenounced free agents (see question number 31).
> * Salaries offered in offer sheets (see question number 37).
> * The "scale" amount for the team's unsigned first round draft pick(s) (see question number 44). This amount begins applying to the team's team salary immediately upon selection in the draft. However, this is not the same as his trade value (see question number 74).
> * A roster charge if the team has fewer than 12 players (players under contract, free agents included in team salary, players given offer sheets, and first round draft picks). The roster charge is equal to the rookie minimum salary for each player below 12. The roster charge only applies during the offseason.
> * The combined amount of any Mid-Level, Bi-Annual, Disabled Player (see question number 19) or Traded Player exceptions (see question number 72) available to the team (see question number 20), if the team is under the salary cap. (Teams may renounce these exceptions, in which case they no longer are included in team salary.)


The Heat's big 3 didn't sign contracts with max starting salaries partly because of the roster charge capholds. 

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/miami.htm

They signed for a combined 43 million in 2010/2011 salary, along with trading away Beasley for nothing they then had the capspace to start filling out their roster like they have.

So again, with 46.9 of a projected 60mil cap committed to Paul/Amare/Okafor and every other player either traded or renounced, the Knicks would only have approx 9mil in available caproom with which to sign a single free agent becuase they would have 8-9 500k roster charge capholds held against their cap.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

And all that "everyone doesn't get a trophy"...what kind of bull**** is that. 

If anything Paul and co. realize that, so instead of staying with a team that perenially has no shot, why not go to a team with a significantly better chance? That's the competitive thing to do, no?

You rag on Vince Carter for not being a competitor and caring about winning..but then you rag on Paul and LeBron for wanting to build winners. You can't have it both ways...you just can't.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Even with Paul, Orlando would be better then the Knicks. They still won't play any defense.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> Exactly who said they did?


HKF is trying to play it off like Deron is biding his time until the Jazz build him a title contender. 

Let's be real about it. They're happy with winning 51 games and making the second round every year. 

If you're Deron, do you stick with that so people can say you're a loyal loser, or do you get out of dodge at your first opportunity and try to compete for some real hardware?


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Blue Magic said:


> Afraid? Haha. Chris Paul and Amare is nice dont get me wrong, but that team has no one to check Dwight and they simply dont have enough firepower by themselves to outscore teams. I'm not afraid of them unless were to get Melo, cause then they dont need to stop us they could just outscore us. It's just like with Miami, I wasn't really 'scared' of them with just Wade & Bosh, but when you put LeBron in the picture it's a different caliber of team. They dont need to stop us with that roster anymore, than can just exploit their advantages on the other end easily...
> 
> I'm not afraid of Chris Paul & Amare by themselves, cause our D is good enough to contain them and our offense is good enough to keep up. Sure NY most likely is a top 4 team in the east, but I dont see why I need to be 'afraid'. They would nice, but not THAT nice. Definitely not if they're trading all of their decent role players like Randolph & Gallo, like I said. Magic could trade some depth still has the core personnel in tact that is ready to win now, like he wants. Not when Melo gets here, not two years from now when they fill out the holes, but right now. NY doesn't have a winning recipe right, they need to get back the playoffs first, and then they would need to get Melo imo... Then I would be 'afraid', 'nervous', or whatever you want to call me. Not to be cocky, that's just how I feel. Miami, Boston, Orlando, all those guys I still like over NY right now


LOL, we'll see my friend. To be perfectly honest, I just want to see a team Chuck Norris roundhouse kick the **** out MIA in the playoffs. I can't argue much with what you said though.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> The Jazz don't have the means to build a team that's going to beat the Lakers in the next 2-3 years.
> 
> I can't wait to see what you say when he leaves or asks out.


He's not going to ask out. That's not how Deron does. Now he will be a free agent in 2012, but he has told management that he wants to win, but his part of the bargain is playing up to his contract and helping the team improve. 

This is what I do not understand. Al Jefferson has never won anything of significance in this league, but now people are hyping him up. The only reason Al will do well in Utah is because he will have a player like Deron and a coach like Sloan pushing him. This guy would still be leading Minnesota to 25 wins or less if he stayed there. He's no savior.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> HKF is trying to play it off like Deron is biding his time until the Jazz build him a title contender.
> 
> Let's be real about it. They're happy with winning 51 games and making the second round every year.
> 
> If you're Deron, do you stick with that so people can say you're a loyal loser, or do you get out of dodge at your first opportunity and try to compete for some real hardware?


That's not what I am saying at all. Where is Deron supposed to go that is a guaranteed title contender? See even you can't answer that question. His contract expires in two years, in two years Amare's knee could completely fall apart crippling the Knicks, Kobe and the gang could still be winning championships or Miami could be. 

Where is the guarantee to be a on championship contender? Or he could stay in Utah and have faith that a team that has only missed the playoffs once in his tenure (his rookie year) is going to give him an opportunity to play for a championship.

Are we supposed to expect all the all-stars to play on the same team now so they can win their precious rings? Should Carmelo leave Denver even though he's made the playoffs all seven years of his career. Both guys have played in the Conference Finals, they know what it takes to get there. Just gotta keep working. It took Kobe four years to get back to the Conference Finals (2004 to 2008).


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Game3525 said:


> I disagree, Williams is much better then Rondo, and is easier to build around. Rondo is good, but he is not as good as some think.


Uh, really? You mean that same Rondo dude that played better than Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen in the playoffs? You mean that same dude that stepped up and had at least 4 triple doubles in the playoffs last year when Kevin Garnett was out? That Rondo? Because if it is, your completely comments are not well grounded. The Rondo I've been watching is one of the best defenders in the league, and has the ability to do just about anything on the floor besides shoot the ball. In an uptempo style of play where I have guys that can score the ball, he's my guy. In a slower paced game where I need a guy capable of carrying the offensive load at times, Williams is my guy. It really just boils down to style of play.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> So are they going to move Rondo because Williams and Rondo play the same position?


Yes. Way back when they had a conditional deal to ship Pierce to Portland for that #3 pick so that they could draft Williams. Pierce refused to sign an extension, though, because he wasn't interested in ringchasing elsewhere, he wanted to win in Boston. They've cleared their payroll for the summer of 2012 in anticipation of being able to sign him. If they can, Rondo will be traded for another piece to put around Williams & Pierce. If they can't land him, Rondo's the fallback.



TwinkieFoot said:


> Not if it is a sign and trade. If it is a sign and trade, then the rules of trades apply. Rules state that a team may receive up to 125% of the amount of money that they are moving. Technically speaking the value of our cap space becomes a trade exception, an amount being sent out in a deal. 25% of $13 million is $3.25 million, hence the Knicks being able to pay $16.25 million to start for Melo IF the Nuggets agree to a sign and trade which they likely will.


The simple answer is no. If the space doesn't exist on the Knicks cap they don't get to make it up. If they have $13 million under the cap they can accept up to that amount without returning any salary. If they're accepting more than that, there needs to be a matching contract outbound. In this case, if they were sending Okafor to Denver they could pay Anthony approximately $15.7 million. If they're sending no one then they're limited by the amount of their cap space.



HKF said:


> Houston didn't make the playoffs in 2010. Phoenix didn't make the playoffs in 2009. There are 11 teams with playoff aspirations in the West as we speak (Lakers, Jazz, Mavs, Spurs, Blazers, Rockets, Nuggets, Thunder, Suns, Hornets, Grizzlies). Someone is going to miss the playoffs. It just might be the Jazz too. Nothing is guaranteed. In case you didn't realize it, last year 8 teams won 50 games, 10 teams won 40 and 11 won 37.
> 
> The reason why the Jazz were able to win that amount of games is because Deron Williams played like a first team All-NBA player (although he wasn't rewarded with that position). That Jazz team had no business winning 53 games with CJ Miles and Wes Matthews in the starting lineup.
> 
> I guess maybe Chris Paul isn't as great as people think he is, based on his stats. Because I don't see a major difference between the Jazz roster, the Hornets roster, the Rockets roster, the Grizzlies roster or the Nuggets roster.


They're both great players. I actually prefer Williams, though I'm honest enough to grant that Paul's better. D-Will got robbed last year, though.


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

the issues I have with this are mainly the fact that paul is still under contract, its a bitch move to pout your way outta town when you signed a deal with your current team. He signed a SHORTER deal to keep his options open in the future, why can't he wait until 27 to bail ship as opposed to 25? the next couple seasons are still going to be kobe and the lakers to lose IMO so its not like going and forming a "superteam" anywhere gaurantees a damn thing in the near future.

I also find it more and more disturbing that we have a bunch of kids dictating the direction of the league. Seriously, these nba players are younger than a lot of us posting on this website talking about them, why the hell should they be catered to when realistically they havent warranted **** to earn it? stand in line and wait your turn, step up to the challenge, and try and BEAT the best, not join them.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> Paul is only better than Howard if we don't care about winning ball games. Get the **** out of here with this nonsense. The fact that you honestly think this Orlando team would be that great without Howard is preposterous. If they had got Okafor instead of Howard, they would be a middling team getting knocked out of the first round year in and year out.
> 
> CHRIS PAUL is NOT BETTER than Dwight Howard.


So what your telling me is that Dwight Howard is the 20 some odd games won difference between Chris Paul? Your telling me that remove those two from the equation and the Hornets and Magic have equally talented supporting casts? Your telling me that the Hornets have a guy remotely as talented and successful as Vince Carter? A recent all-star in Jameer Nelson? A capable 20ppg scorer and former all-star as a 4th option?


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> And all that "everyone doesn't get a trophy"...what kind of bull**** is that.
> 
> If anything Paul and co. realize that, so instead of staying with a team that perenially has no shot, why not go to a team with a significantly better chance? That's the competitive thing to do, no?
> 
> You rag on Vince Carter for not being a competitor and caring about winning..but then you rag on Paul and LeBron for wanting to build winners. You can't have it both ways...you just can't.


What do you mean what kind of bull**** is that? Put on your skull-cap dummy, I'm teaching you something. Only one team can win a title per year. 

Vince Carter not being a competitor has nothing to do with wanting to play on a loaded team. It has everything to do with his immense fear of the spotlight and pressure situations. Chris Paul is supposed to be great enough to make his team a contender, but apparently he's not if he's sitting in street clothes. 

All I hear is this nonsense that Chris Paul is top 3 in the NBA, but let me tell you his roster isn't that bad: Collison, Thornton, Posey, Peja, West, Okafor, Pondexter, Brackins is not a bad roster to play with. That team has the talent to be a playoff team if he would play with them. You're the leader, elevate their play. That's what leaders do. 

Now if you wanna co-sign this type of nonsense, have at it, but remember there is only one winner per year, so no matter what happens, if CP3 ain't on Lebron's team or Kobe's team or Howard's team, how is he going to win a title? He's going to be bitching in his new destination too (especially if it's New York and Amare went down).


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> Uh, really? You mean that same Rondo dude that played better than Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen in the playoffs? You mean that same dude that stepped up and had at least 4 triple doubles in the playoffs last year when Kevin Garnett was out? That Rondo? Because if it is, your completely comments are not well grounded. The Rondo I've been watching is one of the best defenders in the league, and has the ability to do just about anything on the floor besides shoot the ball. In an uptempo style of play where I have guys that can score the ball, he's my guy. In a slower paced game where I need a guy capable of carrying the offensive load at times, Williams is my guy. *It really just boils down to style of play*.


Not really, Williams is the better player. He can shoot, pass, and makes great decisions with the ball, and on top of that he can hit freethrows. Rondo is good, but Williams is the 2nd best PG in the league, Rondo is around 4th or 5th IMO.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> Depends on my roster and what I want to do offensively. Those two are near equal's if they play their respective styles of basketball.


No, they aren't close to equals. Except maybe in Rondo's mind. Williams can score from anywhere on the floor, finishes strong, draws fouls and makes his free throws. Rondo really can't score from outside six feet, doesn't finish strong at the rim and does everything humanly possible to avoid contact because he's afraid of shooting free throws.


----------



## HB

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Weird enough I think VC is going to have a good season (provided he stays with the Magic). All the pressure is gone now, the Magic aren't expected to win the East. He'll play better. HKF is right he doesnt do well with pressure.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> So what your telling me is that Dwight Howard is the 20 some odd games won difference between Chris Paul? Your telling me that remove those two from the equation and the Hornets and Magic have equally talented supporting casts? Your telling me that the Hornets have a guy remotely as talented and successful as Vince Carter? A recent all-star in Jameer Nelson? A capable 20ppg scorer and former all-star as a 4th option?


Did you actually watch Vince Carter play last year? He was not good. Darren Collison as a rookie was just as good as Jameer Nelson. Seriously, he was. Couple that with the fact that Orlando is in the East (where a year ago, half the conference was under .500), yes I am saying that Dwight Howard is the difference if Chris Paul is going to miss half the damn season in street clothes.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> That's not what I am saying at all. Where is Deron supposed to go that is a guaranteed title contender? *See even you can't answer that question.* His contract expires in two years, in two years Amare's knee could completely fall apart crippling the Knicks, Kobe and the gang could still be winning championships or Miami could be.


Things change fast in the NBA. The Heat were wondering if Wade was even going to stay this time last year...the Lakers were looking real bad before that Pau Gasol trade. Perfect storms can occur. 

Dallas...Portland...both of these teams have been itching to make a major move for years now.



> Where is the guarantee to be a on championship contender? Or he could stay in Utah and have faith that a team that has only missed the playoffs once in his tenure (his rookie year) is going to give him an opportunity to play for a championship.


Or have faith that a team that's perennially second round losers will stay the same. The Jazz are just fine with winning just enough to keep Deron happy and will be forever. 



> Are we supposed to expect all the all-stars to play on the same team now so they can win their precious rings? Should Carmelo leave Denver even though he's made the playoffs all seven years of his career. Both guys have played in the Conference Finals, they know what it takes to get there. Just gotta keep working. It took Kobe four years to get back to the Conference Finals (2004 to 2008).


It's really not on them, it's on management. 

You say 7 years of making the playoffs is evidence the franchise wants to win...I say 7 years of the same result is showing me management isn't working hard enough to make that upper level push. 

You ask where Deron or Carmelo could go..I ask what feasible moves in the next 2 years can the Nuggets or Jazz really make to beat the Lakers? And I agree with you, Al Jefferson isn't even better than Boozer.

I just find it hard to believe Deron is going to be the only boy scout who looks at all these guys putting together serious shots at titles and decides to stick in 50 win no mans land.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Jayps15 said:


> http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q14
> 
> 
> 
> The Heat's big 3 didn't sign contracts with max starting salaries partly because of the roster charge capholds.
> 
> http://hoopshype.com/salaries/miami.htm
> 
> They signed for a combined 43 million in 2010/2011 salary, along with trading away Beasley for nothing they then had the capspace to start filling out their roster like they have.
> 
> So again, with 46.9 of a projected 60mil cap committed to Paul/Amare/Okafor and every other player either traded or renounced, the Knicks would only have approx 9mil in available caproom with which to sign a single free agent becuase they would have 8-9 500k roster charge capholds held against their cap.


Touche. I didn't know that. Well played.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> All I hear is this nonsense that Chris Paul is top 3 in the NBA, but let me tell you his roster isn't that bad: Collison, Thornton, Posey, Peja, West, Okafor, Pondexter, Brackins is not a bad roster to play with. That team has the talent to be a playoff team if he would play with them. You're the leader, elevate their play. That's what leaders do.


If there's anything I know about Paul from watching him since College it's that he's a competitor, and he hates to lose more than probably anyone in the NBA. You're right that that team with a healthy Paul makes the playoffs. 

But Paul wants to win titles. And with the Miami trio, the Lakers quadruplet, and the coming tide in New York...he's farther away from that goal than ever before.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> Uh, really? You mean that same Rondo dude that played better than Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen in the playoffs?


No, he means the guy that LA didn't even bother defending after Perkins went down.


----------



## HB

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



futuristxen said:


> If there's anything I know about Paul from watching him since College it's that he's a competitor, and he hates to lose more than probably anyone in the NBA. You're right that that team with a healthy Paul makes the playoffs.
> 
> But Paul wants to win titles. And with the Miami trio, the Lakers quadruplet, and the coming tide in New York...he's farther away from that goal than ever before.


We also know he can be an *******


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> He's not going to ask out. That's not how Deron does. Now he will be a free agent in 2012, but he has told management that he wants to win, but his part of the bargain is playing up to his contract and helping the team improve.
> 
> This is what I do not understand. Al Jefferson has never won anything of significance in this league, but now people are hyping him up. The only reason Al will do well in Utah is because he will have a player like Deron and a coach like Sloan pushing him. This guy would still be leading Minnesota to 25 wins or less if he stayed there. He's no savior.


Funny. The Grizzlies were 22-60 the season Pau Gasol got traded. How did going to the Lakers end up with him?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> What do you mean what kind of bull**** is that? Put on your skull-cap dummy, I'm teaching you something. Only one team can win a title per year.
> 
> Vince Carter not being a competitor has nothing to do with wanting to play on a loaded team. It has everything to do with his immense fear of the spotlight and pressure situations. Chris Paul is supposed to be great enough to make his team a contender, but apparently he's not if he's sitting in street clothes.
> 
> All I hear is this nonsense that Chris Paul is top 3 in the NBA, but let me tell you his roster isn't that bad: Collison, Thornton, Posey, Peja, West, Okafor, Pondexter, Brackins is not a bad roster to play with. That team has the talent to be a playoff team if he would play with them. You're the leader, elevate their play. That's what leaders do.
> 
> Now if you wanna co-sign this type of nonsense, have at it, but remember there is only one winner per year, so no matter what happens, if CP3 ain't on Lebron's team or Kobe's team or Howard's team, how is he going to win a title? He's going to be bitching in his new destination too (especially if it's New York and Amare went down).


All that ranting comes down to this:

There is one winner every year, but each team and player does what they can to optimize *their individual shot* at winning. 

The NBA isn't the place where GMs gauge their moves based off who already is good..the NBA is the league where one GM makes a move and every other team down the line is trying to make one to keep pace..*to improve their own individual chance.*

Like I said, even having that enter your mind is some bull****. Do you think Jordan or Kobe would be settled after you told them "well there's only 1 championship and we don't have a good shot at it".

And people want to act like Kobe's the good soldier now...do we forget about him talking about wanting to trade Bynum and going on the radio pissed off that they didn't build anything around him?

There were tons of rumors about Kobe being traded before Gasol move and Kobe did nothing to quell them.

So no, he didn't hang back, he held their feet to the fire or he was out the door..and lucky for them they ended up duping Chris Wallace into that trade.


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> Funny. The Grizzlies were 22-60 the season Pau Gasol got traded. How did going to the Lakers end up with him?


Gasol and the grizz were first round cannon fodder every postseason. The hornets were one jumpshot away from the WCF just 2 seasons ago. The team has been revamped, and for the better I might add, and he wants to jump ship rather than take the 4 new solid young players under his wing, and work on maximizing everything okafor can give on the offensive end. He wants to take the easy way out, but I hope if he goes in that direction, the adversity follows him 10 fold and he regrets wholeheartedly choosing to handle the situation in this manner.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Fair enough. Go to another stacked team and lose, it's all the same. My point is, why take franchise player money if you don't want to be the man. I love the NBA too much to let the players ruin this league. If the league needs to institute a hard cap to get rid of this mindset so be it. Shut down the league for two years if necessary. I will be sad to miss the rest of Kobe's great years, but **** get it done Commish.


----------



## HB

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I agree with HKF on this...why get the franchise player tag if you don't want to do the heavy lifting?


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



E.H. Munro said:


> Yes. Way back when they had a conditional deal to ship Pierce to Portland for that #3 pick so that they could draft Williams. Pierce refused to sign an extension, though, because he wasn't interested in ringchasing elsewhere, he wanted to win in Boston. They've cleared their payroll for the summer of 2012 in anticipation of being able to sign him. If they can, Rondo will be traded for another piece to put around Williams & Pierce. If they can't land him, Rondo's the fallback.



Your memory serves you wrong. I do recall that trade being available, however, you seem to be rewriting history. Was the trade proposed? Yes. Did Paul Pierce refuse to go because "he wasn't interested in ringchasing elsewhere?" NO. During the 2004-2005 season, the Blazers went 27-55. The same season, the Celtics went 45-37 and won the Atlantic Division. Him turning the deal down was simply him not wanting to go to a ****ty situation.




E.H. Munro said:


> The simple answer is no. If the space doesn't exist on the Knicks cap they don't get to make it up. If they have $13 million under the cap they can accept up to that amount without returning any salary. If they're accepting more than that, there needs to be a matching contract outbound. In this case, if they were sending Okafor to Denver they could pay Anthony approximately $15.7 million. If they're sending no one then they're limited by the amount of their cap space.


Except they can. Trade exceptions are much like a players contract in a trade. That being the case, wouldn't it make sense that it is subjected to the same rules and stipulations of a trade?


----------



## O2K

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

i saw this trade request coming when Paul signed with Lebron's group. Lebron could possibly be the worst thing to happen to the NBA.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

"I'll take anybodies money if they giving it away"...

It's not some mafia made ceremony where they guarantee duty before signing the contract. That **** is run by the agents, and they just want their guy to make what the last comparable guy did. That's a negligible aspect of it IMO. 

Maybe we just have two different perspectives. You'd rather see a deep regular season and playoff, I'd rather see possibly the best finals ever...every year.


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HB said:


> I agree with HKF on this...why get the franchise player tag if you don't want to do the heavy lifting?


And thats a huge problem that will have negative ramifications on this league. I love how these guys are all touted as being worldclass "competitors", yet they are trying to make the route to a title the EASIEST way humanly possible. That is NOT competitive drive, thats copping out, end of story.


----------



## HB

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Tooeasy said:


> And thats a huge problem that will have negative ramifications on this league. I love how these guys are all touted as being worldclass "competitors", yet they are trying to make the route to a title the EASIEST way humanly possible. That is NOT competitive drive, thats copping out, end of story.



Hey it will make for 'great' finals lol...who cares about the regular season and the other 'depleted' teams.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Paul leaving would actually be better for the NBA, New Orleans isn't a marquee team at all. It would be cool to see the Knicks become relevent, or to to see the battle of the super teams in Florida.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> What do you mean what kind of bull**** is that? Put on your skull-cap dummy, I'm teaching you something. Only one team can win a title per year.
> 
> Vince Carter not being a competitor has nothing to do with wanting to play on a loaded team. It has everything to do with his immense fear of the spotlight and pressure situations. Chris Paul is supposed to be great enough to make his team a contender, but apparently he's not if he's sitting in street clothes.
> 
> All I hear is this nonsense that Chris Paul is top 3 in the NBA, but let me tell you his roster isn't that bad: Collison, Thornton, Posey, Peja, West, Okafor, Pondexter, Brackins is not a bad roster to play with. *That team has the talent to be a playoff team if he would play with them. You're the leader, elevate their play. That's what leaders do. *
> Now if you wanna co-sign this type of nonsense, have at it, but remember there is only one winner per year, so no matter what happens, if CP3 ain't on Lebron's team or Kobe's team or Howard's team, how is he going to win a title? He's going to be bitching in his new destination too (especially if it's New York and Amare went down).


Dude, this isn't a comic book. It's the real world. A turd is a turd. Even if you sprinkle it with glitter, it's just a better looking turd. Chris Paul is not a magician and isn't somehow going to make Peja play a full season and up to the responsibilities of a $16 million per contract. No star can do that. The fact of the matter is that the guy was dealt a bad hand as a result of mismangement by the Hornets franchise and realizes he needs better. All the guy wants to really do is be competitive and that piss-poor roster despite costing $70 million can't do that for him.


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> Maybe we just have two different perspectives. You'd rather see a deep regular season and playoff, I'd rather see possibly the best finals ever...every year.


 IF chris paul and melo go to the eastern conference, and after a few years when kobe is in the winter years of his career, who will be able to represent the west to give you the "best finals ever"? Portland and OKC have the best possible talent, but neither one of those teams have the firepower to beat any team stacked with 3 all world talents.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Game3525 said:


> Not really, Williams is the better player. He can shoot, pass, and makes great decisions with the ball, and on top of that he can hit freethrows. Rondo is good, but Williams is the 2nd best PG in the league, Rondo is around 4th or 5th IMO.


Williams is the better scorer. That's about it. Rondo is the better defender and is equally talented in any other regard of the game. Last time I checked though, defense was more important than offense? I'm pretty sure your the type of guy that throws that cliche around all the time. So explain to me how is Williams the far superior player?


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



E.H. Munro said:


> No, they aren't close to equals. Except maybe in Rondo's mind. Williams can score from anywhere on the floor, finishes strong, draws fouls and makes his free throws. Rondo really can't score from outside six feet, doesn't finish strong at the rim and does everything humanly possible to avoid contact because he's afraid of shooting free throws.


Williams is the better scorer. That's about it. Rondo is the better defender and is equally talented in any other regard of the game. Last time I checked though, defense was more important than offense? I'm pretty sure your the type of guy that throws that cliche around all the time. So explain to me how is Williams the far superior player?


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> Dude, this isn't a comic book. It's the real world. A turd is a turd. Even if you sprinkle it with glitter, it's just a better looking turd. Chris Paul is not a magician and isn't somehow going to make Peja play a full season and up to the responsibilities of a $16 million per contract. No star can do that. The fact of the matter is that the guy was dealt a bad hand as a result of mismangement by the Hornets franchise and realizes he needs better. All the guy wants to really do is be competitive and that piss-poor roster despite costing $70 million can't do that for him.


You realize that if the hornets and knicks completed a trade, that Paul would be in essentially the same situation, and actually worse until melo throws his team under the bus as well. Next season would be a wash because they would have NO depth on their roster, and they would then have to pray that melo doesnt bitch out and signs with them, because otherwise paul and amare will never bring a title to the knicks, those two would just be nash/amare 2.0.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> *Did you actually watch Vince Carter play last year?* He was not good. Darren Collison as a rookie was just as good as Jameer Nelson. Seriously, he was. Couple that with the fact that Orlando is in the East (where a year ago, half the conference was under .500), yes I am saying that Dwight Howard is the difference if Chris Paul is going to miss half the damn season in street clothes.


Yeah, which is kind of sad because he was better than any other player the Hornets had not named Chris Paul. 

I also think it's a little ignorant to use the "their in the East" defense considering the fact that they consistently beat the West's elite. It takes a team to win ball games in the regular season. The Hornets simply don't have that.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Tooeasy said:


> And thats a huge problem that will have negative ramifications on this league. I love how these guys are all touted as being worldclass "competitors", yet they are trying to make the route to a title the EASIEST way humanly possible. That is NOT competitive drive, thats copping out, end of story.


How is it the easiest way possible if they're not even the undisputed favorites to win a ring?

I know this isn't a neat comparision, but when you're playing NBA 2K or whatever, you're trying to stack your team up because you want to step on everyone's necks, you don't say "oh I'll hold off on trading for him, I want to have a challenge in the finals"....don't work like that and you know it.

At the end of the day, competitive drive is less about wanting a fair challenge as it is wanting to squash your competitor so bad it doesn't seem like a fair challenge. 

That's something everyone has to understand.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Tooeasy said:


> You realize that if the hornets and knicks completed a trade, that Paul would be in essentially the same situation, and actually worse until melo throws his team under the bus as well. Next season would be a wash because they would have NO depth on their roster, and they would then have to pray that melo doesnt bitch out and signs with them, because otherwise paul and amare will never bring a title to the knicks, those two would just be nash/amare 2.0.


You do realize Amar'e is bettrthan anything the Hornets have not named Paul? You also do realize that the Suns were consistent contenders in the Western Conference despite not having much more than Amar'e and Nash? Yeah, the Knicks have way more to offer than the Hornets.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Tooeasy said:


> IF chris paul and melo go to the eastern conference, and after a few years when kobe is in the winter years of his career, who will be able to represent the west to give you the "best finals ever"? Portland and OKC have the best possible talent, but neither one of those teams have the firepower to beat any team stacked with 3 all world talents.


It's chess not checkers. 4 years ago very few people would've been able to predict the league would look like this in 2010. Give it time.

And Kobe's not just going to give up when he's no longer top tier. Let's not forget Jordan was averaging 25, 5 and 5 at like 41. Embarassing dudes with headfakes and what not...that's going to be Kobe, he'll be able to channel his energy and hang with any top tier player for a month long playoff run.

If the Lakers keep flipping the talent around him they're going to compete for a title for the next 6-8 years.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

For some reason people think I was rooting for the Lakers (simply because of my location I think). I have wanted a hard cap since 2005. I don't like that Memphis doesn't have a chance to get to the finals simply because of their location, not because of their actual management team. I don't like guaranteed contracts (unless they are 3 years or less) and I like seeing teams on an even level financially. The NBA does not have revenue sharing which is fine except without a hard cap the small market teams are screwed. A luxury tax basically stops the small market teams from winning.

Some of us enjoy watching the league from start to finish, not just the damn finals.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I'm about the playoffs, that's where reputations are made, so honestly no I really don't care much for the regular season outside of the compelling stories.

Are we going to pretend most players on here aren't primarily judged based off their playoff performance?

Tons of players who have made all-star teams are generally regarded as "not good" or some derivative because they're regular season front runners. I could make a football team with all the names I've seen in my time here.


----------



## ATLien

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Well I don't like this, but if it possibly throws a wrench in LeBron's plan then I am okay with it. Sad the NBA has come to this though.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> Williams is the better scorer. That's about it. Rondo is the better defender and is equally talented in any other regard of the game. Last time I checked though, defense was more important than offense? I'm pretty sure your the type of guy that throws that cliche around all the time. *So explain to me how is Williams the far superior player*?


The fact that Williams is the more efficient scorer is what puts him above Rondo. Part of what makes a great PG is the ability to knock down shots, Rondo can be a liability out there because he can't shoot. He is a top five PG, but he isn't on par with Williams, and shooting is the reason why.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



E.H. Munro said:


> No, he means the guy that LA didn't even bother defending after Perkins went down.


Oh, you mean the guy that shot 45.4% from the field? General rule of thumb, when you want to win you don't let the opposing player/team shoot close to 50% if you can help it. Trust me, I know a little something about that having played the game and coached it.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Tooeasy said:


> Gasol and the grizz were first round cannon fodder every postseason. The hornets were one jumpshot away from the WCF just 2 seasons ago. The team has been revamped, and for the better I might add, and he wants to jump ship rather than take the 4 new solid young players under his wing, and work on maximizing everything okafor can give on the offensive end. He wants to take the easy way out, but I hope if he goes in that direction, the adversity follows him 10 fold and he regrets wholeheartedly choosing to handle the situation in this manner.


Dude, you don't know what context the post was made in. Why comment?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Deron Williams and Chris Paul have no peers whatsoever. 

Every other point guard people want to trump up on their good nights has a flaw that makes them a downright liability at times from a strategy perspective.

Say what you want about who's better between the two, but they both play at an extremely high level of basketball *every single night*.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> *Oh, you mean the guy that shot 45.4% from the field?* General rule of thumb, when you want to win you don't let the opposing player/team shoot close to 50% if you can help it. Trust me, I know a little something about that having played the game and coached it.


Yeah, because he scores in the paint. Against LA, they had Kobe shadow him and cut off his driving lanes, he then became useless as he had to settle for jumpshots. This wouldn't happen with Williams, who can actually hit a shot from outside of the paint.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> Fair enough. Go to another stacked team and lose, it's all the same. My point is, why take franchise player money if you don't want to be the man. I love the NBA too much to let the players ruin this league. If the league needs to institute a hard cap to get rid of this mindset so be it. Shut down the league for two years if necessary. I will be sad to miss the rest of Kobe's great years, but **** get it done Commish.


That commitment is two-fold. While you have to expect Paul to live up to the end of his bargain by competing hard every night as a leader, you got to hold management responsible for putting a winner on the floor. If the Hornets don't honor their agreement, why does Paul have to honor his?


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Tooeasy said:


> And thats a huge problem that will have negative ramifications on this league. I love how these guys are all touted as being worldclass "competitors", yet they are trying to make the route to a title the EASIEST way humanly possible. That is NOT competitive drive, thats copping out, end of story.


That commitment is two-fold. While you have to expect Paul to live up to the end of his bargain by competing hard every night as a leader, you got to hold management responsible for putting a winner on the floor. If the Hornets don't honor their end of the agreement, why does Paul have to honor his?


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> You do realize Amar'e is bettrthan anything the Hornets have not named Paul? You also do realize that the Suns were consistent contenders in the Western Conference despite not having much more than Amar'e and Nash? Yeah, the Knicks have way more to offer than the Hornets.












Your one of the most stubborn, annoying individuals on this entire message board. Its asinine attempting to discuss anything with someone who claims to have an all-seeing eye and has to dispute every god damn thing. At any rate, The Suns, much like the knicks, could maybe tickle the twine but NEVER touch a championship. The composition of the teams simply does not allow for it. Amare is too much of a defensive liability, pretty stats and no hardware will be his career story. The hornets basically lucked out and got 2 of the top 10-15 rookies last year and filled two major voids, and they still have a two time all-star in west. They have two rooks who may translate into good rotation players. They just hired the coach that Chris was clamoring for, replaced the GM, and just fired everyone that deals with basketball OP's for the hornets. There is also a delay in the ownership swap, however if it goes through Chouest is said to be a billionaire, so this "cheap" ownership tag will be shed. so tell me, how much "worse" off are they than the knicks?


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> For some reason people think I was rooting for the Lakers (simply because of my location I think). I have wanted a hard cap since 2005. I don't like that Memphis doesn't have a chance to get to the finals simply because of their location, not because of their actual management team. I don't like guaranteed contracts (unless they are 3 years or less) and I like seeing teams on an even level financially. The NBA does not have revenue sharing which is fine except without a hard cap the small market teams are screwed. A luxury tax basically stops the small market teams from winning.
> 
> Some of us enjoy watching the league from start to finish, not just the damn finals.


My position is that if you can't afford a NBA team, you shouldn't have one. Besides, teams like the Spurs have demonstrated that it isn't dollars the bring in wins but knowing what your doing. I guess the Knicks were on the flip side of that just a few seasons ago.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I'm personally tired of talking about the Knicks but to be fair they aren't done building yet, so we don't know what they'll be. He's actually right.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

HKF man, if I ever met you I am buying you drinks all night. You speak like a true fan of the sport and not the spectacle, and I respect that.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Game3525 said:


> The fact that Williams is the more efficient scorer is what puts him above Rondo. Part of what makes a great PG is the ability to knock down shots, Rondo can be a liability out there because he can't shoot. He is a top five PG, but he isn't on par with Williams, and shooting is the reason why.


Yeah but you didn't suggest Williams was a better player for that reason. You suggested he was better in every respect. Now that you understand some of what I'm saying, I hope you can begin to understand that this difference just makes them better suited for a particular system. Are you going to need Williams scoring close to 20ppg on the Celtics? No. But you better believe, you'd need Rondo doing that on the Jazz, which he can not do. The style of system you want to run ultimately determines who is the better player.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

That last line isn't true. The guy who can run every system is the better player.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> Yeah but you didn't suggest Williams was a better player for that reason. You suggested he was better in every respect. Now that you understand some of what I'm saying, I hope you can begin to understand that this difference just makes them better suited for a particular system. Are you going to need Williams scoring close to 20ppg on the Celtics? No. But you better believe, you'd need Rondo doing that on the Jazz, which he can not do. The style of system you want to run ultimately determines who is the better player.


Your acting like Williams can't pass, he averaged 10 assist a game, he is just as good a passer as Rondo. Systems does play a factor in determine who is the better player, but in this case it doesn't. Williams is the better player, he may not be the defender Rondo is, but he can run a team just as well and he can hit an outside shot, something Rondo can't do.

Boston would most likely be a better team with Deron Williams at the point then Rajon Rondo.


----------



## O2K

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I will never understand this NY talk. They signed Amare to a contract that he will probably never be able to play out, they draft bad, and management makes poor decisions. New York is a fun city and all but its not a good team to play for.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Game3525 said:


> Yeah, because he scores in the paint. Against LA, they had Kobe shadow him and cut off his driving lanes, he then became useless as he had to settle for jumpshots. This wouldn't happen with Williams, who can actually hit a shot from outside of the paint.


That's cool and all but you obviously don't know the context of the statement. Munro was trying to make the point that Rondo is irrelevant on offense. If he can hit 45.4% of his shots, regardless of where he takes most of them, he is relevant offensively. Clearly if the Lakers had to make the adjustment you just referred to, it is because Rondo is very relevant offensively. There is also a whole other end of the game your disregarding; Rajon Rondo is a superior defender to Williams and good enough to make me think those two in the same class.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Game3525 said:


> Your acting like Williams can't pass, he averaged 10 assist a game, he is just as good a passer as Rondo. Systems does play a factor in determine who is the better player, but in this case it doesn't. Williams is the better player, he may not be the defender Rondo is, but he can run a team just as well and he can hit an outside shot, something Rondo can't do.
> 
> Boston would most likely be a better team with Deron Williams at the point then Rajon Rondo.


Find me where I said Williams can't pass. I said the discussion comes down to what your team wants more of defense vs. offense. What you fail to understand is that as much as Rondo isn't a good shooter, there is more to the game offensively than jump shots.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



O2K said:


> I will never understand this NY talk. They signed Amare to a contract that he will probably never be able to play out, they draft bad, and management makes poor decisions. New York is a fun city and all but its not a good team to play for.


That doesn't matter when you can put an all-star ladened lineup on the floor and buy excellent coaching. Thank you cap space!


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> That's cool and all but you obviously don't know the context of the statement. Munro was trying to make the point that Rondo is irrelevant on offense. If he can hit 45.4% of his shots, regardless of where he takes most of them, he is relevant offensively. Clearly if the Lakers had to make the adjustment you just referred to, it is because Rondo is very relevant offensively. There is also a whole other end of the game your disregarding; Rajon Rondo is a superior defender to Williams and good enough to make me think those two in the same class.


Rondo is pretty irrelevant if you cut off his passing lanes, what LA did to Rondo they couldn't do with Williams, who is an actually threat from outside. There are just less flaws in Deron's game then there are in Rondo, I don't see how this is even a discussion Williams is clearly the better player.

You put him on Boston, they win the title easily. You put Rondo on Utah, they may not get to 42 wins.


----------



## TwinkieFoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Tooeasy said:


> Your one of the most stubborn, annoying individuals on this entire message board. Its asinine attempting to discuss anything with someone who claims to have an all-seeing eye and has to dispute every god damn thing. At any rate, The Suns, much like the knicks, could maybe tickle the twine but NEVER touch a championship. The composition of the teams simply does not allow for it. Amare is too much of a defensive liability, pretty stats and no hardware will be his career story. The hornets basically lucked out and got 2 of the top 10-15 rookies last year and filled two major voids, and they still have a two time all-star in west. They have two rooks who may translate into good rotation players. They just hired the coach that Chris was clamoring for, replaced the GM, and just fired everyone that deals with basketball OP's for the hornets. There is also a delay in the ownership swap, however if it goes through Chouest is said to be a billionaire, so this "cheap" ownership tag will be shed. so tell me, how much "worse" off are they than the knicks?


Well grow up. You can't go around not liking everyone that doesn't agree with you, lol. You've done next to nothing but make empty comments about the Hornets being a relevant team. The fact remains that Chris Paul wants to be dealt and it's coming from his inner circle, so there is no denying that at this point? He isn't leaving the situation because its brimming with promise? He's leaving because the Hornets are a subpar team.


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> Well grow up. You can't go around not liking everyone that doesn't agree with you, lol. You've done next to nothing but make empty comments about the Hornets being a relevant team. The fact remains that Chris Paul wants to be dealt and it's coming from his inner circle, so there is no denying that at this point? He isn't leaving the situation because its brimming with promise? He's leaving because the Hornets are a subpar team.


and youve done next to nothing but make empty comments and be irrelevant in conversations. I enjoy discussing things with people that have different viewpoints, you just are hideous at interacting with people in an enjoyable way. Fact is, if Chris really wants out so bad and thinks hes got the hornets in the palm of his hand, then the knicks can have him. Your team will be gutted, and you will have tossed away your future in draft picks, and in 2 years when he opts out of his contract and jumps on the heats dick by forcing a sign and trade your team will be left with nothing, yet again.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> Find me where I said Williams can't pass. *I said the discussion comes down to what your team wants more of defense vs. offense*. What you fail to understand is that as much as Rondo isn't a good shooter, there is more to the game offensively than jump shots.


No, it doesn't. Rondo is a good defender, but that doesn't overcome the gap between him and Williams, he is just the better player.


----------



## O2K

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> That doesn't matter when you can put an all-star ladened lineup on the floor and buy excellent coaching. Thank you cap space!


but how much capspace does ny actually have left?

also paul has 2 more years left on his current contract. If NO doesn't get anything they want they can just tell paul to sit out two seasons.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Doubt the Knicks trade for him if it means taking on Okafor's contract they would probably rather wait for Tony Parker then take on that contract.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> Your memory serves you wrong. I do recall that trade being available, however, you seem to be rewriting history. Was the trade proposed? Yes. Did Paul Pierce refuse to go because "he wasn't interested in ringchasing elsewhere?" NO. During the 2004-2005 season, the Blazers went 27-55. The same season, the Celtics went 45-37 and won the Atlantic Division. Him turning the deal down was simply him not wanting to go to a ****ty situation.


The Trailblazers had been a .500 team beset by injuries, the Celtics were a sub .500 team going nowhere when a late season trade for Antoine Walker (of all things) allowed them to finish eight games over .500. Of course, half that team was headed for free agency and the owners were very clear that none of them were coming back. 

The Trailblazers were/are owned by the richest owner in the NBA, and promising to build around Pierce. The Celtics were/are owned by an investment group that was adamant about staying under the luxury tax line (because back then the fans were still paying LA prices for a New York product). My memory's just fine.



TwinkieFoot said:


> Except they can. Trade exceptions are much like a players contract in a trade. That being the case, wouldn't it make sense that it is subjected to the same rules and stipulations of a trade?


I'm sorry, what trade exception do the Knicks have? It would be surprising, being how they're under the cap, and the non-simultaneous trade rules have been changed since the last CBA and teams under the cap no longer have a year to complete any such deals (seifer pointed that out to me in another thread). The New York Knicks, in your scenario, would have only the open cap space on their payroll to absorb salary, that's it. If you're under the cap, and a trade puts you over, then you need to be sending actual outbound salary. So, Bogg was right, unless they could find a sucker to take Okafor off their hands for nothing they're out of luck.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



TwinkieFoot said:


> Williams is the better scorer. That's about it. Rondo is the better defender and is equally talented in any other regard of the game. Last time I checked though, defense was more important than offense? I'm pretty sure your the type of guy that throws that cliche around all the time. So explain to me how is Williams the far superior player?


Williams is the better shooter, and an astronomically better shooter at that, is a better finisher at the rim, better at drawing fouls. Just plain better. Rondo looks great in transition, but he's functionally worthless in a halfcourt set. Again, go back and re-watch the finals. As long as Perkins was in there, and Boston was generating defensive stops, they could get Rondo out in transition and he looked good. In game 6 Fat Andy Bynum sat on Perkins and blew out his knee. Boston was no longer generating the defensive stops and Boston couldn't get Rondo out in transition, and Kobe Bryant got to play free safety and disrupt the passing lanes. Boston couldn't score to save their life. 

Deron Williams is a fine transition player. But he's also a killer halfcourt player. Put another way, no matter what team you put Williams on he'll succeed because he can score from anywhere on the floor, get out in transition, draw fouls, sink free throws, and manage an offense like clockwork. Rondo only succeeds if you can get him out in transition, so if he doesn't have a killer interior line behind him, he ain't gonna look that good. Put another way, swap Rondo for Williams and Utah doesn't have a prayer at making the western conference playoffs (because their interior line sucked) and Boston's celebrating another title.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



E.H. Munro said:


> No, they aren't close to equals. Except maybe in Rondo's mind. Williams can score from anywhere on the floor, finishes strong, draws fouls and makes his free throws. Rondo really can't score from outside six feet, doesn't finish strong at the rim and does everything humanly possible to avoid contact *because he's afraid of shooting free throws.*


So true, haha/


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> And all that "everyone doesn't get a trophy"...what kind of bull**** is that.
> 
> If anything Paul and co. realize that, so instead of staying with a team that perenially has no shot, why not go to a team with a significantly better chance? That's the competitive thing to do, no?
> 
> You rag on Vince Carter for not being a competitor and caring about winning..but then you rag on Paul and LeBron for wanting to build winners. You can't have it both ways...you just can't.


Must spread rep...it's a domino effect at this point. Started by the Lakers. I can't understand why asking your management to stack your team is different from trying to go somewhere else to play for a stacked team. If you want to win, you have to beat stacked teams at this point. Paul understands this. Maybe some players are okay with deep playoff runs, but some players would like to get to the top.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Knicks4life said:


>


I see VC and raise you:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q255/jameer_14/1 - Orlando Magic/divers/5majeur94nickanderson.jpg


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Rondo in the playoffs is ALMOST on that Deron Williams level. But you really can't say he's better at this point.

I think for me of the young point guards it's:
1. CP3
1a. Deron
2.Rondo
3. Rose
4. Jennings

I probably forgot someone.


----------



## 77AJ

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Chris Paul is trash.


----------



## Wilmatic2

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I can see Chris and Dwight playing together. Nothing but highlights and that Florida rivarly will be interesting


----------



## tone wone

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Sir Patchwork said:


> Must spread rep...it's a domino effect at this point. Started by the Lakers. I can't understand why asking your management to stack your team is different from trying to go somewhere else to play for a stacked team. If you want to win, you have to beat stacked teams at this point. Paul understands this. Maybe some players are okay with deep playoff runs, but some players would like to get to the top.


I personally love the idea of taking control of your career instead of leaving in someone elses hands. There are some horrible decision-makers in power throughout this league who either have deep pockets and/or great players that cover up their incompetence. The majority don't have those luxuries (money specifically) and get called out and ridiculed on this board daily.

If we didn't tie individual greatness into team success sooooo damn much, this so call "problem" might not exist. Stop pronouncing Player A better than Player B simply because his team managed to be more successful. Learn that being a great player means that you're great at "playing" NOT coaching or GM_ing_. I don't blame these guys one lick for being "impatient" about their situations.

Hey, I like the early '90s way more than the '80s probably due to expansion spreading the talent around and not having the C's and Lakers getting lottery picks and all-stars at the snap of a finger. So I understand the criticism, but half of these team dont deserve to be in the mix given how they're ran. And im not saying that any of this actually applies to NO.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



23AJ said:


> Chris Paul is trash.


Don't worry, once he gets traded to Orlando, you can become a fan of their "brand" and the point guard you once hated can also be one of your favorite players along with LeBron.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



23AJ said:


> Chris Paul is trash.


Can't blindly hate Lebron anymore so you hate Chris Paul now.... makes sense.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



futuristxen said:


> Rondo in the playoffs is ALMOST on that Deron Williams level. But you really can't say he's better at this point.
> 
> I think for me of the young point guards it's:
> 1. CP3
> 1a. Deron
> 2.Rondo
> 3. Rose
> 4. Jennings
> 
> I probably forgot someone.


Rondo over Rose?  Personally, I like my PG to come with a jumper, so maybe i'm biased. Idk if Rondo is even in my top 5...


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Blue Magic said:


> Rondo over Rose?  Personally, I like my PG to come with a jumper, so maybe i'm biased. Idk if Rondo is even in my top 5...


Did you watch the playoffs? Rondo is a little more saavy than Rose. And I think a better pure point guard. He really takes control of the floor. Watching him move hall of famers and all-stars around on the court for Boston like it's nothing was Stocktonesque.

They're close though. If Rose could get his scoring up close to 30 he'd leapfrog Rondo probably.


----------



## hroz

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Yop young PGs

Paul
Williams
Rose
Rondo
gap
Curry
Brooks
Jennings

thats the order, i probably missed someone


----------



## Ben

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

^Where does Wall slot in if he lives to his 1st year potential?


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



tone wone said:


> I personally love the idea of taking control of your career instead of leaving in someone elses hands. There are some horrible decision-makers in power throughout this league who either have deep pockets and/or great players that cover up their incompetence. The majority don't have those luxuries (money specifically) and get called out and ridiculed on this board daily.
> 
> If we didn't tie individual greatness into team success sooooo damn much, this so call "problem" might not exist. Stop pronouncing Player A better than Player B simply because his team managed to be more successful. Learn that being a great player means that you're great at "playing" NOT coaching or GM_ing_. I don't blame these guys one lick for being "impatient" about their situations.
> 
> Hey, I like the early '90s way more than the '80s probably due to expansion spreading the talent around and not having the C's and Lakers getting lottery picks and all-stars at the snap of a finger. So I understand the criticism, but half of these team dont deserve to be in the mix given how they're ran. And im not saying that any of this actually applies to NO.


You are only saying this because you believed (or still believe) that Garnett was a better player than Duncan, when we have seen he is absolutely not a better player. Garnett in a better situation is whole career is still a complimentary star, nothing more.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



futuristxen said:


> Rondo in the playoffs is ALMOST on that Deron Williams level. But you really can't say he's better at this point.
> 
> I think for me of the young point guards it's:
> 1. CP3
> 1a. Deron
> 2.Rondo
> 3. Rose
> 4. Jennings
> 
> I probably forgot someone.


No, he isn't.

Rondo is becoming overrated by some, he is a top 5 PG but he isn't anywhere near Williams level, who is just a notch below a healthy Paul. Even with Rondo's postseason, Deron still put up better numbers accross the board.

Top five

1.Paul
2.Williams
3.Nash
4.Rondo
5.Rose


----------



## O2K

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Its easier to take "command the floor" when your primary responsibility is not putting the ball in the basket. In the half court Rondo is terrible. He's a good pg, top 5 but he is not better then rose. Deron williams is the leader of his team and the best player of his team, Rondo plays with Ray Allen comming off screens, Pierce in the iso at the top of the key. Derrick Rose averaged 26.8 and 7 in the playoffs last year as the unquestioned man. He put up 20 and 6 his rookie year in the playoffs with Ben Gordon leading the way. Last year Rondo haved 16 5, 9 in the playoffs. Rondo is without a doubt a much better rebounder than rose, but shoots significantly worse from the field and the free throw line. By a lot. Rose does not have to score 30 a game to leapfrog Rondo. If rose scores 30 a game he's entering top 5 player overall territory. Rondo is not in that territory. Rondos flaws are much more glaring than Roses. I like Rondo a lot but he is becoming vastly overrated.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I'm also not that impressed with Rondo. He is a top 5 PG but he is at the bottom of that 5. Well behind Paul and Williams and also behind Rose. With the Celtics stars declining as rapidly as they are, Rondo will have a chance to prove himself this season. He will have to carry the Celtics all year, something that Paul, Williams and Rose have been doing for their teams since jump.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I'd put Curry in the group of guys that will go past Rondo. Steph Curry's a monster.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Yeah, that guy is going to be a star. I put Rondo at 4 right now, but I see Rose passing him now that he has a solid supporting cast.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I don't think I've ever seen a guy rated as highly as Rondo who got so little respect from opposing coaches. They just barely acknowledge his existence. Usually when you have a great player you see the other team put together a game plan that focuses on guarding him. It always looks like the other team is telling Rondo to do whatever he wants.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



hroz said:


> Yop young PGs
> 
> Paul
> Williams
> Rose
> Rondo
> gap
> Curry
> Brooks
> Jennings
> 
> thats the order, i probably missed someone


Russell Westbrook is extremely upset.


----------



## HB

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

*Lebron and Wes have their greasy prints all over this*



> James, his business manager Maverick Carter and powerbroker William Wesley have far too much influence over Paul’s career, and they’re running it right out of the sunshine and into darkness. They’re using Paul as a commodity to elevate their clout, to show how they can take a player with no contractual leverage and muscle him out of New Orleans.
> 
> What they don’t care about – and maybe don’t understand – is that Paul built such a beautiful, unique relationship with the city of New Orleans. He’s been so truly invested there, a beacon and ambassador in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. Yet, the James gang see these bonds as disposable and they’re convincing Paul of it, too.
> 
> In a Twitter pronouncement on Thursday, King James declared, “Best of luck to my brother [Chris Paul] … Do what’s best for You and your family.”
> 
> James was referencing Paul’s half-baked trade request that’s come through Worldwide Wes. Do what’s best for your family? Here’s an idea: What Paul ought to do is run away from James, Wesley, Carter and not stop moving until he’s returned to New Orleans and reaffirmed the obligations he’s made there. No, this isn’t a championship team, but a franchise player reveals himself in good times and bad.
> 
> What’s best for Paul’s family is best for everyone’s family in the NBA. It needs James to restrict the polluting onto others of his own warped value system. James plays for the Miami Heat, but somehow he wants control of transactions elsewhere, too. He wants the building of these so-called super teams to protect his own legacy, to make it look like he isn’t the only superstar searching for the easy way to championships.


Meanwhile there are folks on here defending this pampered stars....lol


----------



## tone wone

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Wow.

Stop crying.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



tone wone said:


> Wow.
> 
> Stop crying.


Crying? Whos crying?
You talk about how you loved the 90's when talent was spread amongst the league. Yet you seem to support crooked crap like this?

Sounds a little hypocritical to me


----------



## O2K

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HB said:


> *Lebron and Wes have their greasy prints all over this*
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile there are folks on here defending this pampered stars....lol


whats surprising to me is how Wes got cho hired by the blazers. if that is true, then wes is the true power broker.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



> The Orlando Magic have replaced the New York Knicks as the top team on Chris Paul's list of preferred destinations, according to league sources.
> 
> Paul believes the Magic, with Dwight Howard, would be a better fit for him. Also, Paul realizes the Magic have more to offer New Orleans in a trade and therefore views it as a more realistic landing spot.
> 
> New York, Portland and Dallas are still all on Paul's short list.
> 
> Chris Broussard is a senior NBA writer for ESPN The Magazine.


Sources: Paul prefers Magic to Knicks


----------



## f22egl

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Knicks4life said:


> Sources: Paul prefers Magic to Knicks


In other news, Chris Paul has a brain.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

:gopray:


----------



## tone wone

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



OneBadLT123 said:


> Crying? Whos crying?
> You talk about how you loved the 90's when talent was spread amongst the league. Yet you seem to support crooked crap like this?
> 
> Sounds a little hypocritical to me


Paul's situation is different cause he is under contract but ever since James decided to "take his talents to south beach" there has been A LOT of crying about the future effects it'll have on the league. To that I say too freakin bad.

Its not on the players to insure competitive balance...its on the people in power to make better decisions. Run your teams better and maybe just maybe you wouldn't have to worry about your star leaving. I applaud these guys for taking their careers in their own hands instead of waiting to be "saved" by one of the geniuses we have running this league.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



> Chris_Broussard Chris Paul's Wish List of preferred teams: 1 Orlando 2 New York 3 Dallas 4 Portland


I hope the Knicks don't even get involved in this crap.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Knicks4life said:


> I hope the Knicks don't even get involved in this crap.


What crap? There are literally two players in the entire world that a GM would pick over Paul when starting a team (James and Howard). The Knicks should absolutely make this their top priority.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The Knicks just don't have assets. If I'm New Orleans I take Vince and filler and trade Okafor off. Vince will play hard in his contract year and he's somewhat of a name still.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> The Knicks just don't have assets. If I'm New Orleans I take Vince and filler and trade Okafor off. Vince will play hard in his contract year and he's somewhat of a name still.


I know they don't. And I in no way think that Paul is going to end up in New York. My problem with his post was that he doesn't even want New York to give it a shot for whatever reason, and even though the chances are extremely slim, they should still go for it.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The Knicks can offer better then Vince Carter and filler but if they do it would kill their roster and flexiblity which is why they shouldn't try to trade for Paul but it sounds like they're willing to give everyone but Amare.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Knicks4life said:


> The Knicks can offer better then Vince Carter and filler but if they do it would kill their roster and flexiblity which is why they shouldn't try to trade for Paul but it sounds like they're willing to give everyone but Amare.


What the hell do the Knicks have to offer better then Vince/filler besides Amar'e? And exactly what flexability do the Knicks have that is so valuable that they don't want to part with it for the best point guard of the generation?

Walsh is pretty dumb, but this is taking it to a whole other level. I mean seriously?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The Knicks don't have anything but a bunch of spare parts that's not going to amount to much without Paul there to actually spoon feed them.

And Vanilla, I wasn't replying to you specifically I was just posting based off the last 5-6 posts I had read. 

Whatever happens the Hornets have to trade him now if they're going to trade him. The closer it gets to the trade deadline the more leverage they'll lose.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Neither the Knicks or the Magic have anything New Orleans needs people. They probably are going to want young, cheap talent/prospects plus a boat load of picks.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Is Vince Carter anything more than a large expiring contract that can give you 15 ppg and a highlight dunk.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



OneBadLT123 said:


> Neither the Knicks or the Magic have anything New Orleans needs people.* They probably are going to want young, cheap talent/prospects plus a boat load of picks.*


I'm sure they would, but there's no teams that have that that he'd go to. The Hornets are playing with a bad hand. 

The best thing for them to do is just start over. Take Vince, let him walk, and come back from the lockout with a fresh slate. 

It's not ideal but it's the best option on the market right now.


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Paul is under contract for two more seasons, I dont understand why the summer of 2010 is all of a sudden doomsday and every day that passes his trade value diminishes. I also find it funny that everyone is spouting off teams that chris paul wants to go to, but the fact is, if the hornets are smart they will do whats best for THEM, not chris. That means taking calls from every team in the league and accepting the best offer. I dont care if chris paul gets traded to the god damn clippers, wolves, or grizzlies, as long as the hornets get the best possible value in return, to hell with where he 'wants" to play. Its time for the hornets FO to stand up and let everyone know that Chris is not bigger than the team, regardless over whether he believes that.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Did Danilo Gallinari and Anthony Randolph stop being young talent prospects when they joined the Knicks?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Do you know why Stars turn in lists? Because they will not go to teams they don't want to. The next team he goes to will be the team that re-signs him, and the other teams know that. 

Nobody's going to take a superstar that doesn't want to be there...especially not from a team that said superstar didn't want to be on. That's like trying to talk to a bitch who just walked out an AIDs clinic man.

And it's not the Paul's value diminishes every day, but the other teams around the league are going to stop offering their best packages if they know the Hornets feel like they have to trade him.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> The Knicks don't have anything but a bunch of spare parts that's not going to amount to much without Paul there to actually spoon feed them.
> 
> And Vanilla, I wasn't replying to you specifically I was just posting based off the last 5-6 posts I had read.
> 
> Whatever happens the Hornets have to trade him now if they're going to trade him. The closer it gets to the trade deadline the more leverage they'll lose.


Gotcha.

And to the Knicks fan, Vince put up 17/4/3 on the third most stacked team in the league last year. He would be getting more opprotunities in a contract year, that spells big numbers and large crowds. Once the year is over they can unload his contract and focus on rebuilding. It's far better then anything the Knicks can offer at this point and that's not even debatable.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Someone is going to have to take Emeka's contract as well, I am not sure if the Knicks want to do that.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Randolph and Gallinari maybe..but like I said if you're garbage for a good 3 years you'll draft players better than them. I'd take the expiring and picks and bite the bullet before I take a bunch of hodgepodge pieces back.


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I'd like to know how interested the thunder are, they have some young prospects, and him and durant together would be pretty crazy.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Game3525 said:


> Someone is going to have to take Emeka's contract as well, I am not sure if the Knicks want to do that.


The Knicks would do that. It's not like they're not saving the money for a Paul caliber talent anyway. If they get him that way they just achieved their goal early.


----------



## Jayps15

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> Originally Posted by OneBadLT123 View Post
> Neither the Knicks or the Magic have anything New Orleans needs people. They probably are going to want young, cheap talent/prospects plus a boat load of picks.
> 
> 
> 
> *I'm sure they would, but there's no teams that have that that he'd go to.* The Hornets are playing with a bad hand.
> 
> The best thing for them to do is just start over. Take Vince, let him walk, and come back from the lockout with a fresh slate.
> 
> It's not ideal but it's the best option on the market right now.
Click to expand...

Portland?
They can offer young prospects, they've got all their own picks to offer, and expirings.

They've got enough to take back both Okafor and Posey along with Paul to offer the most savings possible, hell NOH could cut enough payroll to have the spaceto sign a max contract next year along with getting back young talent.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> Randolph and Gallinari maybe..but like I said if you're garbage for a good 3 years you'll draft players better than them. I'd take the expiring and picks and bite the bullet before I take a bunch of hodgepodge pieces back.


Almost everyone's contract except for the players the Knicks signed this years contracts expires or not guaranteed including Randolph and Gallinari.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Jameer Nelson, Vince Carter, Mickael Pietrus, Daniel Orton, draft picks for Chris Paul, Emeka Okafor and James Posey


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Jayps15 said:


> Portland?
> They can offer young prospects, they've got all their own picks to offer, and expirings.
> 
> They've got enough to take back both Okafor and Posey along with Paul to offer the most savings possible, hell NOH could cut enough payroll to have the spaceto sign a max contract next year along with getting back young talent.


Young prospects like who? They kind of ****ted on their own youngins' progress by not playing them.

And Knicks, that's all well and good but I still think the Magic have the better offer.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The Hornets probably want Pietrus instead of Nelson.


----------



## Jayps15

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Damian Necronamous said:


> Jameer Nelson, Vince Carter, Mickael Pietrus, Daniel Orton, draft picks for Chris Paul, Emeka Okafor and James Posey


Lamarcus Aldridge, Andre Miller, Joel Pryzbilla, Rudy Fernandez, Jerryd Bayless, Luke Babbitt, Elliot Williams, draft picks and 3mil cash for Chris Paul, Emeka Okafor and James Posey

NOH can turn around and unload West for more rebuilding assets

Which do you think the Hornets would choose?


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Why would Paul even want to go to Portland after that, they basically gut the roster to acquire him.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Jayps15 said:


> Lamarcus Aldridge, Andre Miller, Joel Pryzbilla, Rudy Fernandez, Jerryd Bayless, Luke Babbitt, Elliot Williams, draft picks and 3mil cash for Chris Paul, Emeka Okafor and James Posey


:sarcasm:


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> Young prospects like who? They kind of ****ted on their own youngins' progress by not playing them.
> 
> And Knicks, that's all well and good but I still think the Magic have the better offer.


oden, batum, bayless, expirings, picks, possibly aldridge, these options **** all over the knicks and magics potential offers. Magic is garbage, the team WILL want back young talent that they can groom for a modest price, not cap room in which they will have to overpay for middle tier players that wont get them anywhere. Once again, Monty was the assistant in portland and had a direct hand in progressing some of those guys, I am sure he wouldenjoy working with them again if given the chance.


----------



## Jayps15

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Portland would have a Paul/Roy/Batum/Camby/Oden starting lineup with Matthews and Okafor as their 6th/7th men. That's a great lineup, especially with the defense and rebounding up front.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Do you really think Portland is going to offer all that?


----------



## Jakain

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Tooeasy said:


> oden, batum, bayless, expirings, picks, possibly aldridge, these options **** all over the knicks and magics potential offers. Magic is garbage, the team WILL want back young talent that they can groom for a modest price, not cap room in which they will have to overpay for middle tier players that wont get them anywhere. Once again, Monty was the assistant in portland and had a direct hand in progressing some of those guys, I am sure he wouldenjoy working with them again if given the chance.


I agree that the Magic and Knicks offers don't seem to cut it for NOH and they're the ones with the power similar to GSW and Stephen Jackson earlier in the season (although it'd be best for everyone if no bridges were burned in this small sports world). Magic don't have any real promising talent that makes sense for NOH and the Knicks have no draft picks while having a similar problem . Both teams are going to have to look for a third team to make this happen.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I'd rather have Gallinari and Randolph than those other Blazers guys. Oden can't stay on the court, Batum is nice but he's a role player, Bayless might eventually be a Bobby Jackson, but will he get on the floor over Collison...another basket of apples and oranges. Next.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Damian Necronamous said:


> Jameer Nelson, Vince Carter, Mickael Pietrus, Daniel Orton, draft picks for Chris Paul, Emeka Okafor and James Posey


Easily the most reasonable scenerio I've seen so far.


----------



## Jayps15

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Game3525 said:


> Do you really think Portland is going to offer all that?


If I was GM, I would. I like that more than I do sending out Batum or Oden as the centerpiece talent for Paul, with CP3 Aldridge becomes a 3rd option scorer with above average defense and below average rebounding. I think Oden and Batum are more valuable defensively while both of them are more efficient scoring the ball. Aldridge's impact seems like it would go down with Paul coming in, while I think Batum and Oden would stay the same or be even better.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

That's not going to happen Jay. Just not.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



VanillaPrice said:


> Easily the most reasonable scenerio I've seen so far.


And the Hornets can also move Jameer again, he may have a bit of value to a contending team.


----------



## Jayps15

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> That's not going to happen Jay. Just not.


I wasn't saying it was the most likely scenario, but you seem to be under the impression that the Magic can make the most attractive offer for Paul. I certainly don't think that's the case and I was providing an example to that effect.


----------



## Jakain

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

FWIW here's everyone's favorite stat-head, John Hollinger, and what he said about CP3 in his chat today (*the questions, which are from ESPN users, are in bold*):



> *What jersey will CP3 be wearing on opening day?
> *
> I still say Hornets. Paul still has two years left on his deal, which means he can bristle all he wants but he really has very little leverage. If you'll recall we had a similar situation two summers ago with a fellow named Kobe; that one worked out OK for the Lakers if I remember correctly.
> 
> *
> 
> Chances of the Blazers landing Chris Paul if he gets traded at all? What would that package look like?*
> 
> 
> **IF** the Hornets put CP on the market -- which I seriously doubt will happen until midseason at the absolute earliest -- the Blazers are in great position to win a bidding war because of the exirings (Przybilla + Miller) and all the other young assets they can put into a deal.
> 
> 
> One thing for Blazer fans to remember, however, is that getting CP fundamentally will change how they play. Brandon Roy in particular would have to radically alter his game, and Nate McMillan would have to change a lot of how he does things.
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't see Chris Paul seriously going anywhere except for to the Knicks. I think all this talk of him teaming up with Amare and Carmelo after this coming season is very real. They all three probably see it as the only way to beat the three, by simply forming another three.*
> 
> 
> It's not realistic at all under the cap, however. And the Hornets are under no obligation to trade him to New York, and the Knicks are unlikely to have enough assets to win what will essentially become a 29-team bidding war. I still think the best odds are Orlando -- the non-guaranteed Vince contract, the young assets like Anderson and Orton, the ability to take Posey AND Okafor off their hands -- it all adds up.
> 
> 
> *Why are people so focused on what Chris Paul wants in his future team? The Hornets could trade him to any team, and if he really forces a trade, they're more likely to trade him a team that sucks but can give decent pieces in return than a contender who gives them spare parts.*
> 
> The one thing CP can do is say he's going to leave his new team after two years when he hits free agency. But again, two years is a long time ... he'll have much more leverage a year from now.
> 
> 
> *Should I assume any Orlando deal would include Jameer Nelson? If not to NO then has to be to someone bc makes no sense to have Nelson and Paul.*
> 
> I think that's a fair assumption; I presume they would route Nelson to a third team since the Hornets don't seem to need him either.
> 
> 
> *
> DO you think CP3 is giving up on the Hornets if you remember when the Hornets won 56 games they were healthy. The next season Tyson Chandler was hurt a lot and they only won 49 games. Last year CP was hurt. They have good pieces with Thornton, Pondexter, and Collison. I think if they stay healthy they could win 50-52 games
> *
> 
> I think you're right -- they were 18-10 last year in between the two CP injuries, and he wasn't 100% for much of it -- but he's frustrated at their complete non-participation in the free-agent market. Partly that's been because they fired the GM in the middle of free agency, which isn't really the optimal way to go about this.
> 
> *Any chance Mavs get Paul and who would they trade for him?*
> 
> As much as I'd love to see CP and Dirk run a screen and roll, I have a hard time putting a winning deal together. Chandler, Butler and Stevenson give you the matching money, but Beaubois would be the only prospect ... unless you could deal Kidd to a third team and get another prospect to send to Hornets.
> John hollinger (3:34 PM)
> 
> Remember, for any of these teams, you can make a deal that works under the cap. But the key is that it must be the winning bid -- i.e., better than anything Portland or Orlando can throw out there.
> 
> *
> Does Paul need to approve of his desired trade? If he keeps bad-mouthing the Hornets whats to stop them from shipping him off to a non-contender who could provide more in a trade than a top team...*
> 
> Paul doesn't have a no-trade clause. The only thing he can do is tell the potential new team that he'll opt out in two years and leave as a free agent. Kobe was in a much stronger position because he had a no-trade clause.
> 
> *
> Do you think the rockets have a shot at cp3? i know they werent mentioned as one of his preferred destinations but with there assets and the fact that paul has 2 years left on his deal i think theres a chance*
> 
> 
> I think he could be convinced yes, and Houston has some assets they could use to make a winning bid, plus the Rockets aren't afraid to pay tax. A dark horse for sure.
> 
> http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/33571


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Jayps15 said:


> I wasn't saying it was the most likely scenario, but you seem to be under the impression that the Magic can make the most attractive offer for Paul. I certainly don't think that's the case and I was providing an example to that effect.


So you wanted to propose an admittedly unlikely scenario to counter my offer? 

You might as well have said Kobe for Paul. It's just not something that's going to happen, that's like 7-8 players..they'd be gutted.


----------



## Duck

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Jameer would kill it on the Lakers. Really don't wanna see him go, but if its for Chris Paul I'd clearly make an exception.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> The Knicks just don't have assets. If I'm New Orleans I take Vince and filler and trade Okafor off. Vince will play hard in his contract year and he's somewhat of a name still.


Why should they give Paul away to help the Magic? I'm sorry, but if crap is the best offer out there, they're better off just making Paul play out the string.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The only contenders that I could see wanting Nelson are the Heat and Lakers but I don't think they have the assets to trade for him.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Tooeasy said:


> oden, batum, bayless, expirings, picks, possibly aldridge, these options **** all over the knicks and magics potential offers. Magic is garbage, the team WILL want back young talent that they can groom for a modest price, not cap room in which they will have to overpay for middle tier players that wont get them anywhere. Once again, Monty was the assistant in portland and had a direct hand in progressing some of those guys, I am sure he wouldenjoy working with them again if given the chance.


Jameer > Bayless(or any other guard POR would offer). Oden cant even stay healthy(I dont know if he's even better than Okafor right now). Vince choked under the spotlight in playoffs, but his #'s weren't that bad throughout the year. He's still a name brand and should keep some butts in the seats, and he's in a contract year. Gortat, Pietrus, Bass, wont ever be superstars but they can be above average role players if you play them the right way. 

N.O. might not want JaMeer, or any of the role players, so a 3rd or 4th team that wants them might need to chip in to make it work and send acpl pieces to N.O... I think it can work, though.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



VanillaPrice said:


> Easily the most reasonable scenerio I've seen so far.


Danny Orton and two picks in the 28-30 range for a top 5 player is about as far from reasonable as it gets.


----------



## Jayps15

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> So you wanted to propose an admittedly unlikely scenario to counter my offer?
> 
> You might as well have said Kobe for Paul. It's just not something that's going to happen, that's like 7-8 players..they'd be gutted.


How likely are any of these scenarios? It's not like there's a an 80% shot of the Magic landing Paul for Carter's expiring and a bag full of handj*bs, this is a message board where fans are discussing possible scenarios, most of which are unlikely.

I'm interjecting my opinion into the discussion, that the Blazers can best an offer by the Magic, it's about as likely as anything else I've seen posted including your scenario.

And again, the Blazers squad after the trade I proposed isn't gutted. That's a squad stacked with defense and rebounding, 2 go to scorers in Paul and Roy who can both set up others and penetrate, and more than enough outside shooting to space the floor.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

^And why do you have the Blazers trading Aldridge & Oden, with no guarantee Paul is re-signing anyway? Sure they could best any offer from the Magic, but it would be dumb to trade Aldrige w/ no guarantee imo. And I just dont think Roy + Paul is enough to win right now in this climate. Paul is thinking POWER MOVE, not slightly better situation. Paul/Roy/Matthews/?/Camby, is that a power team? I dont think so, Paul would be gone in 2 years...


----------



## Jayps15

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Blue Magic said:


> ^And why do you have the Blazers trading Aldridge & Oden, with no guarantee Paul is re-signing anyway? Sure they could best any offer from the Magic, but it would be dumb to trade Aldrige w/ no guarantee imo. And I just dont think Roy + Paul is enough to win right now in this climate. Paul is thinking POWER MOVE, not slightly better situation. Paul/Roy/Matthews/?/Camby, is that a power team?


My trade didn't include Oden, so it's Paul/Roy/Batum/Camby/Oden with Matthews/Okafor off the bench. That's a power team to me.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Tooeasy said:


> I'd like to know how interested the thunder are, they have some young prospects, and him and durant together would be pretty crazy.


Interesting point. Paul loved OKC when he was here. Infact he left here upset that he had to go. The word around here is that Jeff Green is going to be the 6th man in the long run, but if some team throws money at him when he is up, I doubt Presti pays him more than he is worth just to keep him around. He is obviously not the permanent solution at PF for the Thunder if they planning on competing for a title. 

I don't know much about the CBA or the salaries or anything, but Jeff Green (and the necessary contracts to make it work) for Chris Paul. Maybe OKC can throw in that Clippers pick they got this year.


----------



## carlos710

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

1) Portland is a greedy team. They could offer a great package of young talent, but I doubt they will do so. I expect them to still mark their young guys as "untouchables" and offer mostly garbage

2) I don't see a lot of value on the magic's package. Even tho vince carter can still sell some tickets, it would be a one year rental for the hornets. Unless they plan to trade him at the deadline for some prospects a trade with the magic doesn't makes any sense to me, they also don't need nelson

With this in mind it seems like a package around Anthony randolph + gallo would be the best offer they could reallstically get.

I would love my grizzlies to get in the running, but unless they offer Mayo (and I don't expect them to do that) I don't see them beating a knicks offer

But an offer of Zach randolph (big expiring) + Mayo + Thabeet + Young for Paul + Okafor could be a good try.


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Blue Magic said:


> Jameer > Bayless(or any other guard POR would offer). Oden cant even stay healthy(I dont know if he's even better than Okafor right now). Vince choked under the spotlight in playoffs, but his #'s weren't that bad throughout the year. He's still a name brand and should keep some butts in the seats, and he's in a contract year. Gortat, Pietrus, Bass, wont ever be superstars but they can be above average role players if you play them the right way.
> 
> N.O. might not want JaMeer, or any of the role players, so a 3rd or 4th team that wants them might need to chip in to make it work and send acpl pieces to N.O... I think it can work, though.


bayless has the chance to become a great scoring combo guard off the bench, his value is being understated by just making a greater than sign. He played damn good ball in his first real playoff series this year too. Oden is one of the bigger variables in the league right now, last year was a freak injury but he showed great promise and IF he even fulfils 80% of what we thought he would be, he can still be a cornerstone big man.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

A lot of people are over looking Houston and their assets. If anything they are the 1 other team besides the Magic who are in a prime position to win, and win now with young prospects and picks. There is a reason why many speculated Houston having the best chance for a S&T with Toronto for Bosh originally.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

If Paul is traded, he's being traded to a team he wants to go to and will hence re-sign with, that's not an issue. 

Houston might be a good option but there just hasn't been that much discussion. At some point, no offense, these always turn into a situation where everyone's stating their favorite team's chances despite there not being any evidence Paul wants to go there.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> If Paul is traded, he's being traded to a team he wants to go to and will hence re-sign with, that's not an issue.
> 
> Houston might be a good option but there just hasn't been that much discussion. At some point, no offense, these always turn into a situation where everyone's stating their favorite team's chances despite there not being any evidence Paul wants to go there.


Yeah I know, but it creates discussion, and arguments so its all good.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Jayps15 said:


> How likely are any of these scenarios? It's not like there's a an 80% shot of the Magic landing Paul for Carter's expiring and a bag full of handj*bs, this is a message board where fans are discussing possible scenarios, most of which are unlikely.


You just took 70% of the Blazers roster and threw it together.

The players the pro-Magic and Knicks people mentioned would more than likely be involved in any deal, so no, they're not unrealistic.


----------



## Jayps15

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™;6333834 said:


> You just took 70% of the Blazers roster and threw it together.
> 
> The players the pro-Magic and Knicks people mentioned would more than likely be involved in any deal, so no, they're not unrealistic.


I didn't just throw those players together willy nilly, there was actually a goal involved when I came up with that posted trade, to come up with a cap viable trade for Paul that involved Aldridge as the main attraction instead of Oden and/or Batum. The concept being that with David West only being under contract for 1 more year he was probably likely to bolt after any CP3 trade, so Aldridge isn't redundant to them at PF and with his extension already sign at a great price he's actually quite valueable. When I was coming up with it I had to get around Aldridge's BYC while not sending back so much salary as to send the Hornets over the luxury tax(which they don't want).

Miller and Pryz are expirings and their large contracts obviously have to be involved to allow the Blazers to take back both Okafor and Posey in any scenario. Rudy and Bayless are the best young talent still on rookie contracts left after Oden and Batum, and are being talked about in every possible Paul trade from the Blazers perspective. Babbitt and Williams are both 1st rounders from this years draft (16th and 22nd) and provide some potential on cheap 4 year contracts, as well as providing the last bit of salary to overcome Aldridge's BYC status. Picks and cash are obvious and are going to have to be offered by any potential Hornet trading partner.


----------



## thatsnotgross

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Some of you posters seriously need to start thinking here....

If New Orleans is going to trade a once in a generation point guard who is 25 years old then they will want 4 things.

1.) Cap flexibility as soon as possible (basically wanting expiring contracts and the team probably must take Okafor and/or Posey)
2.) Young talent in their rookie contracts
3.) Multiple draft picks
4.) Cash

And yes... they can get all of them.

One said... "Vince + fillers" will do the trick. haha, seriously stop it. I don't see how Orlando gets into the discussion with no young cheap talent that they can quickly rise again.

Another poster traded half of Portland's team without GIVING up Batum but gave them Bayless. And to keep in mind, they have Darren Collison who lit up the scene when Paul was hurt. 

So why are you guys adding players like Jameer Nelson (28 years old and injury prone) and Bayless into the package?

Whoever wants Paul will have to take Okafor and/or Posey...

If its just Paul and Okafor.. I could see a package of this...

Portland trades
Nicolas Batum
Rudy Fernandez
Jeryd Bayless (yes still must add talent but he is not the centerpiece of the trade)
Pryzbilla 
Greg Oden (don't know if he can be traded)
Andre Miller (his last year is non guaranteed)

New York Knicks
Eddy Curry (expiring.. won't be playing)
Ronny Turiaf (last year... player's option)
Kelena Azubuike (expiring)
Anthony Randolph (young talent and from Baton Rouge)
Wilson Chandler (semi young talent)
.... ugh I hate to say this but probably Danillo Gallinari (young talent)

Orlando
Vince Carter (expiring)
and where are the young talents that New Orleans would want?


----------



## Xeneise

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I hate how everyone underrates Gallinari, Randolph, and Chandler. To think Ryan Anderson and Daniel Orton are better prospects than Gallo and Randolph is laughable. And I heard Pietrus being thrown around as young talent? Really? A 28 year old backup defensive wing?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I guarantee if he gets traded all you idealistic "young talent and picks" people will be disappointed.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> I guarantee if he gets traded all you idealistic "young talent and picks" people will be disappointed.


Yeah I can't really remember the last time that actually worked but it's an easier sell to the fans.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



VanillaPrice said:


> What crap? There are literally two players in the entire world that a GM would pick over Paul when starting a team (James and Howard). The Knicks should absolutely make this their top priority.


Why would anyone take Chris Paul over Kevin Durant when starting a team? Or Carmelo Anthony? When accounting for age, talent and injury history?


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Xeneise said:


> I hate how everyone underrates Gallinari, Randolph, and Chandler. To think Ryan Anderson and Daniel Orton are better prospects than Gallo and Randolph is laughable. And I heard Pietrus being thrown around as young talent? Really? A 28 year old backup defensive wing?


Well basically, NY is NOT a contender if they traded those 3 guys to get Paul. Paul is leaving NO because he DOES NOT want to wait, he wants to win now. Like I have been saying, Amare + Paul is not that much greater West + Paul OR Amare + Nash was... If those teams couldn't get it done the last 5 years, why the hell do we think a gutted Knicks team is gonna win anything in the next 2 years(with the mini-dream team down south)? Do you ppl not realize **** 2x harder now, a very good duo is not likely good enough... You need a damn good trio if you even want a chance to counter that. 

It's pointless for Paul to go NY, cause a gutted Knicks team w/ him & Amare, isn't better than the current Hornets or the past years Suns... Only positive would be Knicks management is much more likely to spend in the rebuild than Hornets management. So his future is a little brighter, but it would still be a rebuild... Which he is exactly what he is trying to get out of... Unless they pulled another star like Melo or Joe Johnson, NY is a dead end. He'd be better off going to Portland than NY, cause Aldrige/Roy/Paul > Amare/Paul.... Dwight/Shard/Paul > Amare/Paul. I dont think NY makes sense if they have to gut every decent player not named Amare to get him... That's what i'm sayin.


----------



## Xeneise

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Blue Magic said:


> Well basically, NY is NOT a contender if they traded those 3 guys to get Paul. Paul is leaving NO because he DOES NOT want to wait, he wants to win now. Like I have been saying, Amare + Paul is not that much greater West + Paul OR Amare + Nash was... If those teams couldn't get it done the last 5 years, why the hell do we think a gutted Knicks team is gonna win anything in the next 2 years(with the mini-dream team down south)? Do you ppl not realize **** 2x harder now, a very good duo is not likely good enough... You need a damn good trio if you even want a chance to counter that.
> 
> It's pointless for Paul to go NY, cause a gutted Knicks team w/ him & Amare, isn't better than the current Hornets or the past Suns... Only positive would be Knicks management is much more likely to spend in the rebuild than Hornets management. So his future is a little brighter, but it would still be a rebuild which he is trying to get out of... Unless they pulled another star like Melo or Joe Johnson, NY is a dead end... He'd be better off going to Portland than NY, cause Aldrige/Roy/Paul > Amare/Paul.... Dwight/Shard/Paul > Amare/Paul. I dont think NY makes sense if they have to gut every decent player not named Amare...


I agree with everything you said, and I don't think the Knicks would ever trade all three of those players for him, nor should they. However, One of Gallo/Randolph and Chandler, plus Currys contract and the 2011 swap they'll get with Houston, or a pick in the future isn't a bad offer if the Hornets decide to trade Paul. If it's Randolph,

Chandler
Randolph
Curry
1st Round Pick

for Paul

You might call that trade unfair, but I doubt they get more than cap space and a talent like Anthony Randolph. Chandler is a quality 6th man at worst, as well as a pick. Teams won't trade 2/3 of their roster like some of the Portland trades I've seen, and in my opinion Randolph is a better individual prospect than anyone on Portland unless you count Oden, who they won't trade.

Paul, Walker, Douglas, Azubuike, Gallinari, Amare, Turiaf, Mozgov, with Felton as a trade chip for a center or shooting guard is an Eastern Conference Finals Contender.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

To get Paul you have to take back Okafor, and if the Knicks do that they have to trade about 5-6 of there player with no capspace.


----------



## Xeneise

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Knicks4life said:


> To get Paul you have to take back Okafor, and if the Knicks do that they have to trade about 5-6 of there player with no capspace.


Or they could send back Felton and Curry, and 1-2 young guys + a pick, who only has a two year deal, and would be a great replacement and easily tradable.

Though that would have to wait until December.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I don't think they would take back Felton even if his contract only has two years guaranteed.


----------



## Xeneise

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Knicks4life said:


> I don't think they would take back Felton even if his contract only has two years guaranteed.


Then I don't think they'd have trouble finding a third team to take Felton for an expiring contract. Or even better, could send the asset the other team gives up for Felton to New Orleans.


----------



## thatsnotgross

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

They can't take back Felton.. they just signed him. They must wait until Dec. 15 to trade him.

New Orleans will INSIST a team on taking Okafor. If they want a team to take Okafor's contract then the price for Paul drops. Therefore, the Knicks can say, "you want us to take Okafor then we can't give you both Gallinari and Randolph. Take one of them".

Chandler probably won't be with the Knicks next season. If the trade doesnt happen with Paul... then our goal is to get Carmelo Anthony. In order for us to get Carmelo, I believe we must renounce Chandler. Either way, I dn 't see Chandler being with us because Anthony Randolph/Gallinari has that spot and he can't stretch the floor. 

Yes, Paul wants to go to the Magic but that doesn't mean it will happen. the Magic has nothing to offer other than expiring an expiring contract. While Portland and NY can offer expiring contract + young talent.


----------



## Xeneise

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



thatsnotgross said:


> They can't take back Felton.. they just signed him. They must wait until Dec. 15 to trade him.
> 
> New Orleans will INSIST a team on taking Okafor. If they want a team to take Okafor's contract then the price for Paul drops. Therefore, the Knicks can say, "you want us to take Okafor then we can't give you both Gallinari and Randolph. Take one of them".
> 
> Chandler probably won't be with the Knicks next season. If the trade doesnt happen with Paul... then our goal is to get Carmelo Anthony. In order for us to get Carmelo, I believe we must renounce Chandler. Either way, I dn 't see Chandler being with us because Anthony Randolph/Gallinari has that spot and he can't stretch the floor.
> 
> Yes, Paul wants to go to the Magic but that doesn't mean it will happen. the Magic has nothing to offer other than expiring an expiring contract. While Portland and NY can offer expiring contract + young talent.


That's why I already wrote that that trade cannot happen until December. Paul probably isn't moved until the deadline, so it's a moot point.


----------



## Idunkonyou

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Orlando has plenty of young talent. Also once Paul found out Okafor was attached to his hip as far as where he goes, Orlando moved up to his prime choice because his dream of playing with Amare/Melo in New York died since Okafor's contract would make it impossible for that scenario to happen in the Big Apple. Not to mention I have a feeling Posey will need to be included in the deal as well since the Hornets are thinking cut cap now so that they can spend on FAs next summer. Orlando would probably take back both, while the other teams wouldn't do it, nor have the assets to do it.

The Magic can offer cap space, young talent and draft picks, not to mention a team Paul would agree upon and a team outside of the western conference. Portland IMO has an outside shot, but I have feeling the Hornets want Aldridge or Roy from them and I highly doubt they give up either, not to mention I highly doubt they will be willing to take back Posey's and Okafor's deals.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I highly doubt this is true, if it is Lebron is the biggest pussy in sports.

http://twitter.com/pdcavsinsider


----------



## HB

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



thatsnotgross said:


> They can't take back Felton.. they just signed him. They must wait until Dec. 15 to trade him.
> 
> New Orleans will INSIST a team on taking Okafor. If they want a team to take Okafor's contract then the price for Paul drops. Therefore, the Knicks can say, "you want us to take Okafor then we can't give you both Gallinari and Randolph. Take one of them".
> 
> Chandler probably won't be with the Knicks next season. If the trade doesnt happen with Paul... then our goal is to get Carmelo Anthony. In order for us to get Carmelo, I believe we must renounce Chandler. Either way, I dn 't see Chandler being with us because Anthony Randolph/Gallinari has that spot and he can't stretch the floor.
> 
> *Yes, Paul wants to go to the Magic but that doesn't mean it will happen. the Magic has nothing to offer other than expiring an expiring contract. While Portland and NY can offer expiring contract + young talent*.


Lol the team with arguably the best bench depth in the league have nothing to offer...are you serious? How about Pietrus? Redick? Bass? Gortat? Ryan Anderson? Jameer? VC? Orton?

Nothing to offer you say...Knicks fans are a riot

As for Lebron, guy has always been a punk


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Orlando has talent, but it is not cheap. Carter is a huge expiring, but aside from him the rest of the team has multi-year contracts.

Portland on the other hand could offer some combination of:

Przybilla
Miller
Oden
Bayless
Fernandez
Batum

All of whom have expiring deals. And if I was the Hornets I would rather have some combination of those players than VC + Pietrus/Nelson or any other combo that Orlando could offer.

I still think Denver makes sense as a trading partner. Especially if they could send Billups to Charlotte and Damp's non-guaranteed contract to NO.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HB said:


> As for Lebron, guy has always been a punk


I think the punk move is sitting on the Internet calling a man a punk when you don't know him especially basing off of 2nd hand(at best) info.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

A punk move is making an avatar bet with Lamar and then showing up with a Neo pic a month later.


----------



## HEATLUNATIC

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HB said:


> Lol the team with arguably the best bench depth in the league have nothing to offer...are you serious? How about* Pietrus? Redick? Bass? Gortat? Ryan Anderson? Jameer? VC? Orton?*
> Nothing to offer you say...Knicks fans are a riot
> 
> As for Lebron, guy has always been a punk


All I see is depth and cap space. If the Hornets trade Paul for anything less then a super-star/young stud...lets just say they should close up shop for good!


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

You rarely get equal value for superstars, so the Hornets won't be the first team to get hosed.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Super Friends said:


> All I see is depth and cap space. If the Hornets trade Paul for anything less then a super-star/young stud...lets just say they should close up shop for good!


You rarely see a team get back a star for another star. It's usually one good player and a combination of picks/cap flexibility or two good players and a pick or some combination of all of that. 

If the Hornets were to get back Jameer and Gortat for example, I think that would about be par for the course as far as superstar trades go. That's not to say it's fair, but usually quality for quantity trades favor the team trading for the quality.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I hope when Hornets move out of New Orleans, the NBA can consider giving Vancouver another shot.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The NBA should have never left Vancouver in the first place.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

It sort of annoys me that Chris Paul is saying he prefers any team over any other. The Hornets are going to trade him to the team that gives them the best offer. Paul doesn't have a no-trade clause. If you put out a list of teams you think it's possible to go to, that's fine. But who cares if you prefer the Knicks or Magic? That's not going to affect the Hornets decision. Rubs me the wrong way.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HB said:


> Lol the team with arguably the best bench depth in the league have nothing to offer...are you serious? How about Pietrus? Redick? Bass? Gortat? Ryan Anderson? Jameer? VC? Orton?
> 
> Nothing to offer you say...Knicks fans are a riot
> 
> As for Lebron, guy has always been a punk


When you're trying to show off talent and you start your list with Pietrus/Redick/Bass/Gortat it's quite obvious Orlando is counting on Paul to force his way to Orlando. With the exception of VC's contract there is absolutely nothing tempting about Orlando's offer. And because theres an 8 mil difference in salary between VC and Okafor/Paul, New Orleans will have to absorb 8 mil of extra salary that doesn't expire next year.

I do hope this happens so that Dwight finally gets a playmaker. It would also be fun to see VC finish up his career playing for the Hornets.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I also have to wonder how dedicated Orlando's FO is in putting together this team. If they take on Okafor and Paul they will be looking at at least 90+ mil worth of salary for the next few years. Even with being the team with the highest payroll, they are still 3rd best in my mind behind Lakers and Heat.


----------



## Idunkonyou

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



seifer0406 said:


> I also have to wonder how dedicated Orlando's FO is in putting together this team. If they take on Okafor and Paul they will be looking at at least 90+ mil worth of salary for the next few years. Even with being the team with the highest payroll, they are still 3rd best in my mind behind Lakers and Heat.


I believe Devos, the owner of the Magic, is one of the top 50 richest people in the world. Obviously he doesn't care about the payroll at this point in time, otherwise they would have let Gortat walk last year and Redick walk this year, not to mention the Magic are about to move into a brand new arena which will start making him money immediately. I'm sure he is thinking if we can get that other star player beside Howard, we need to do it. I fully expect the Magic to agree on taking back Okafor and maybe even Posey to get Paul. I still think a 3rd team will be introduced in this trade though, unless the Hornets want Nelson, which IMO they probably won't because they have Collison, but who knows. So in the end I think you will see Gortat/VC/Bass or Anderson/pick go to the Hornets from Orlando, Nelson/possible filler like Bass, Anderson or Pietrus go to a 3rd team for a SG/SF back, while sending a piece or two to the Hornets as well and the Magic also take back Paul/Okafor/Posey.

Expensive yes, but the Magic finally get their 2nd legit allstar beside Howard, while also keeping their depth. The only spot they could be hurting at in the end is PF or backup center, but I'm sure if they make this move, veterans will be lining up to sign in Orlando so it shouldn't take long to fill out that spot/spots.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HB said:


> Lol the team with arguably the best bench depth in the league have nothing to offer...are you serious? How about Pietrus? Redick? Bass? Gortat? Ryan Anderson? Jameer? VC? Orton?


Those are bench caliber players except Nelson and maybe Gortat. Wince is a starter talent but is near worthless on a team with contending aspirations. Having the best bench depth means little when it comes to acquiring superstars. For instance Miami traded 3 starters from a playoff team for Shaq.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Idunkonyou said:


> I believe Devos, the owner of the Magic, is one of the top 50 richest people in the world. Obviously he doesn't care about the payroll at this point in time, otherwise they would have let Gortat walk last year and Redick walk this year, not to mention the Magic are about to move into a brand new arena which will start making him money immediately. I'm sure he is thinking if we can get that other star player beside Howard, we need to do it. I fully expect the Magic to agree on taking back Okafor and maybe even Posey to get Paul. I still think a 3rd team will be introduced in this trade though, unless the Hornets want Nelson, which IMO they probably won't because they have Collison, but who knows. So in the end I think you will see Gortat/VC/Bass or Anderson/pick go to the Hornets from Orlando, Nelson/possible filler like Bass, Anderson or Pietrus go to a 3rd team for a SG/SF back, while sending a piece or two to the Hornets as well and the Magic also take back Paul/Okafor/Posey.
> 
> Expensive yes, but the Magic finally get their 2nd legit allstar beside Howard, while also keeping their depth. The only spot they could be hurting at in the end is PF or backup center, but I'm sure if they make this move, veterans will be lining up to sign in Orlando so it shouldn't take long to fill out that spot/spots.


I don't buy this idea that because an owner is rich he doesn't care about making money. Their GM hasn't exactly been smart with money. Even this offseason they overpaid Redick and turns around losing Barnes for 1.6 mil a year. I don't know how much they paid Q Rich but I have an idea that it's a lot more than what Barnes got.

I think Orlando planned on letting VC walk for nothing next year just to shred salary. That explains overpaying Redick because he is VC's cheaper replacement. If this Paul trade doesn't happen it will likely be due to Orlando's reluctance to take on Okafor's salary.


----------



## HB

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Jamel Irief said:


> Those are bench caliber players except Nelson and maybe Gortat. Wince is a starter talent but is near worthless on a team with contending aspirations. Having the best bench depth means little when it comes to acquiring superstars. For instance Miami traded 3 starters from a playoff team for Shaq.


Pietrus is definitely a starting caliber player in this league and Redick is a great player to come of the bench. As for VC, lol is NO a contender? Why does it matter? His expiring will be enticing for them. With that said, I think Portland gives NO more.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Redick got lucky this off season. The Bulls made the mistake of letting Hinrich walk and they were desperate for a SG. Besides Orlando and Chicago, it's hard to see any other team looking to pay 7 mil for a backup combo guard. He is a good player no doubt, but at that price his value is average at best.


----------



## HB

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



seifer0406 said:


> I don't buy this idea that because an owner is rich he doesn't care about making money. Their GM hasn't exactly been smart with money. Even this offseason they overpaid Redick and turns around losing Barnes for 1.6 mil a year. I don't know how much they paid Q Rich but I have an idea that it's a lot more than what Barnes got.
> 
> I think Orlando planned on letting VC walk for nothing next year just to shred salary. That explains overpaying Redick because he is VC's cheaper replacement. *If this Paul trade doesn't happen it will likely be due to Orlando's reluctance to take on Okafor's salary.*


Wow, so another team offering them a better package would not work into that equation.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> Orlando has talent, but it is not cheap. Carter is a huge expiring, but aside from him the rest of the team has multi-year contracts.
> 
> Portland on the other hand could offer some combination of:
> 
> Przybilla
> Miller
> Oden
> Bayless
> Fernandez
> Batum
> 
> All of whom have expiring deals. And if I was the Hornets I would rather have some combination of those players than VC + Pietrus/Nelson or any other combo that Orlando could offer.
> 
> I still think Denver makes sense as a trading partner. Especially if they could send Billups to Charlotte and Damp's non-guaranteed contract to NO.


Portland could give them a better salary dump, in the purest sense, but I think they still would like to sell SOME tickets next year.  At the end of the day, I just dont see any prospect you listed better than Jameer, and yeah VC is old but he's still a name brand that will sell. Miller, Pryzbilla, those guys are expiring, but to the average fan I doubt those guys would sell like Vince could. I think the Magic are a real player in this. Especially if we can get a 3rd team to chip in, who has something N.O. really wants.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HB said:


> Wow, so another team offering them a better package would not work into that equation.


Of course it would, but Okafor is the deal breaker imo. If Orlando doesn't want to take on Okafor's contract there is nothing more to discuss about. The deal will be back and forth between Orlando getting Okafor and the players that they must give back to match the salary. As of now Orlando is lacking expiring contracts because New Orleans likely aren't interested in guys like Gortat and Nelson who have a lot of years left.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

A couple things..

Redick is worth his contract.

Richardson is a better player than Barnes and Barnes is wildly over-rated on this board.

Chris Paul is grossly over-rated, but on the Magic he's a perfect fit and Orlando's greatest strengths would all be Miami's greatest weaknesses. That would make for a fun Florida rivalry.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HB said:


> Pietrus is definitely a starting caliber player in this league and Redick is a great player to come of the bench. As for VC, lol is NO a contender? Why does it matter? His expiring will be enticing for them. With that said, I think Portland gives NO more.


Because you listed Wince as talent, not a contract.

Portland should just give them Martell Webster!


----------



## HB

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Lol a legit 20ppg scorer isn't a talent?


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> Richardson is a better player than Barnes and Barnes is wildly over-rated on this board.


When Miami is your biggest rival Barnes is a better fit than Richardson because Barnes is a much better wing defender. That's why the Lakers signing will prove to be an excellent move because Barnes gives them another guy to throw at Lebron/Wade.

I like Redick as a spark off the bench or even a borderline starter. But at 7 mil/yr he's not really a valuable trade chip.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> A couple things..
> 
> Redick is worth his contract.
> 
> *Richardson is a better player than Barnes and Barnes is wildly over-rated on this board.*
> 
> Chris Paul is grossly over-rated, but on the Magic he's a perfect fit and Orlando's greatest strengths would all be Miami's greatest weaknesses. That would make for a fun Florida rivalry.


Yeah he was a feisty player, but I definitely wont miss his routine airball 3's every other game... Supposedly we didn't even make him an offer. He must of done something wrong, lol.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Funny how Barnes isn't good enough to play for Orlando but he's good enough to play for the champs.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

He didn't do anything wrong. He's just not that good. He's a bad shooter, he has no handle, he's a very bad decision maker, and his defense is very over-rated. He's feisty and hard-nosed, but replaceable.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> A couple things..
> 
> Redick is worth his contract.
> 
> Richardson is a better player than Barnes and Barnes is wildly over-rated on this board.
> 
> *Chris Paul is grossly over-rated*, but on the Magic he's a perfect fit and Orlando's greatest strengths would all be Miami's greatest weaknesses. That would make for a fun Florida rivalry.


Talk about bat****.....


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Blue Magic said:


> Portland could give them a better salary dump, in the purest sense, but I think they still would like to sell SOME tickets next year.  At the end of the day, I just dont see any prospect you listed better than Jameer, and yeah VC is old but he's still a name brand that will sell. Miller, Pryzbilla, those guys are expiring, but to the average fan I doubt those guys would sell like Vince could. I think the Magic are a real player in this. Especially if we can get a 3rd team to chip in, who has something N.O. really wants.


They won't sell many tickets either way, so why take on the salary of a guy like Nelson?

Portland makes far more sense for New Orleans. So does Denver.


----------



## Idunkonyou

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



seifer0406 said:


> I don't buy this idea that because an owner is rich he doesn't care about making money. Their GM hasn't exactly been smart with money. Even this offseason they overpaid Redick and turns around losing Barnes for 1.6 mil a year. I don't know how much they paid Q Rich but I have an idea that it's a lot more than what Barnes got.
> 
> I think Orlando planned on letting VC walk for nothing next year just to shred salary. That explains overpaying Redick because he is VC's cheaper replacement. If this Paul trade doesn't happen it will likely be due to Orlando's reluctance to take on Okafor's salary.


That said, the new arena will make the Magic money. It is no surprise that our owner all of the sudden green lighted our GM to spend the last 3 years. Before that, the Magic wouldn't dare go into the luxury tax area. Now with the new arena on the horizon, it seems like they have money to burn. Not to mention Devos is 84 years old and has made it publicly known that he wants to see his team win a title before he dies and is willing to spend to get that title. I don't think he gives a damn about contracts right now. He just wants a title.


----------



## Jakain

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> They won't sell many tickets either way, so why take on the salary of a guy like Nelson?


FWIW Portland was third in these attendance numbers and they haven't won a playoffs series in years : http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Jakain said:


> FWIW Portland was third in these attendance numbers and they haven't won a playoffs series in years : http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance


What's your point? 

I think he was talking about the Hornets selling tickets.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Jameer isn't even better than Batum. Find me one other 6' 8" player in the NBA who has a career TS% of 60, is a defender who guards the other teams best player, a world-class athlete, and is only 22 and improving.


----------



## Coatesvillain

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The Hornets plan really can't be get cap space to spend in free agency can it? Who the hell will choose to go to New Orleans if they aren't overpaid? If they get cap space it should be used to make trades. Also in the process they need to revamp their front office. Too many teams get cap space and blow it in free agency and find themselves stuck.


----------



## Jakain

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> What's your point?
> 
> I think he was talking about the Hornets selling tickets.


Whoops, my mistake.


----------



## Coatesvillain

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Adam said:


> Jameer isn't even better than Batum. Find me one other 6' 8" player in the NBA who has a career TS% of 60, is a defender who guards the other teams best player, a world-class athlete, and is only 22 and improving.


How valuable is the TS% if he's taken an average of less than six shots a game in his career?


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Coatesvillain said:


> The Hornets plan really can't be get cap space to spend in free agency can it? Who the hell will choose to go to New Orleans if they aren't overpaid? If they get cap space it should be used to make trades. Also in the process they need to revamp their front office. Too many teams get cap space and blow it in free agency and find themselves stuck.


Yeah that's the problem. If you can't win with Chris Paul when will you ever win? What they should do is just use the pieces they have to build around him. 

But if they are going to trade him, they are going to have some rough years. It doesn't make sense to pay a guy like Nelson when you aren't going to be a winning team anyways.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Idunkonyou said:


> Orlando has plenty of young talent.


No they don't.


----------



## HB

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Lol people going crazy here...Jameer and Collison is a good point guard rotation. Not ideal, but good. As for Barnes, really good defender but quite expendable. Q-Rich can guard Bron actually, he's stronger. He's actually a decent defender and provides much more on the offensive end.


----------



## HEATLUNATIC

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HB said:


> Lol people going crazy here...Jameer and Collison is a good point guard rotation. Not ideal, but good. As for Barnes, really good defender but quite expendable. *Q-Rich can guard Bron actually, he's stronger.* He's actually a decent defender and provides much more on the offensive end.


BS!!!

Bron owned Q-Rich and everyone else we threw at him.

Game 1 - 34pts 7ast 4reb 2stl 1blk

Game 2 - 32pts 9reb 4ast 1stl

Game 3 - 36pts 7reb 8ast 2stl


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Neither of them can have any success guarding LeBron. Richardson isn't tall or mobile enough. Barnes isn't strong or mobile enough.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> Why would anyone take Chris Paul over Kevin Durant when starting a team? Or Carmelo Anthony? When accounting for age, talent and injury history?


Okay, maybe I slept on Kevin Durant, but I'd still probably take Paul over him.

Carmelo, however, isn't even in the discussion. Dude is a talented scorer and a solid rebounder. Paul is a great scorer, a fantastic passer, a very good rebounder, and one of the best in the league at creating steals. The only year in his career that he had talent around him he was one game away from the WCF. Carmelo isn't on his level, and it's not close.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Adam said:


> *Jameer isn't even better than Batum.* Find me one other 6' 8" player in the NBA who has a career TS% of 60, is a defender who guards the other teams best player, a world-class athlete, and is only 22 and improving.


Lol, you cannot be serious. If so, I think i'm offended. Batum is what, the 5th option on his team?? He has no responsibility other than to play D, and take an open shot in a corner... Jameer has made a name for himself as a top 2-3 guy on the 2nd best team in the league, so this isn't even worth discussing. Batum has potential, sure, but he hasn't proven anything in this league other than he's a good 5th banana, with good measurables.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Truth hurts.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Haha, wow... Truth? Is that what you were telling us when you said Russell Westbrook is an NBDL player? GTFO with this crap, you have no cred when it come to evaluating talent. Not in my book, at least.


----------



## HB

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Super Friends said:


> BS!!!
> 
> Bron owned Q-Rich and everyone else we threw at him.
> 
> Game 1 - 34pts 7ast 4reb 2stl 1blk
> 
> Game 2 - 32pts 9reb 4ast 1stl
> 
> Game 3 - 36pts 7reb 8ast 2stl


Ummm no one guy can guard Bron when he's on...just hope he is thinking about Delonte when he comes into town.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Blue Magic said:


> Haha, wow... Truth? Is that what you were telling us when you said Russell Westbrook is an NBDL player? GTFO with this crap, you have no cred when it come to evaluating talent. Not in my book, at least.


Evaluating a 28 year old player, going on 29, that I've watched for the last 10+ years is a bit different than evaluating a guy who sucked in college because Ben Howland's system. It's not like I said Gerald Wallace was = to Scottie Pippen. Get over yourself.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

At this point of their careers, Jameer is better then Batum. Batum has a nice future, but lets get real.


----------



## HB

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Batum is an allstar caliber player? Interesting


----------



## Jayps15

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Nelson has proven more to this point, but in terms of value to NOH Batum has him beat. Far younger, more upside, much cheaper contract, and he doesn't play the same position of the 2nd year guy they would be trying to build around after any trade with CP3. Plus the fact that their new head coach has already had 2 years of time coaching/developing Batum.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Jayps15 said:


> Nelson has proven more to this point, but in terms of value to NOH Batum has him beat. Far younger, more upside, much cheaper contract, and he doesn't play the same position of the 2nd year guy they would be trying to build around after any trade with CP3. Plus the fact that their new head coach has already had 2 years of time coaching/developing Batum.


Jameer has value as well, as a trading piece.


----------



## Jayps15

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Game3525 said:


> Jameer has value as well, as a trading piece.


I wouldn't trade Batum + an expiring for Jameer, and I especially wouldn't do it if he was on the Hornets because it would be obvious he'd need to be traded, lowering his value.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Adam said:


> Evaluating a 28 year old player, going on 29, that I've watched for the last 10+ years is a bit different than evaluating a guy who sucked in college because Ben Howland's system. It's not like I said Gerald Wallace was = to Scottie Pippen. Get over yourself.


Never said Gerald Wallace = Scottie Pippen, I said Pipp's career would go down more like Gerald Wallace, if he never suited up with Jordan. He wouldn't have all the accolades WITHOUT Jordan and Phil, but that's a hypothetical. Big difference from you claiming Batum IS better than Jameer right now. That is just dumb. Potential is one thing, but dude is not a proven commodity. Just fall back on this. And as for Westbrook, you were saying he was a bum based what he was doing the 1st half of the season. I had the same exposure as you, you just had you're mind made up on him w/o watching... Dont blame Ben Howland for that. :naughty:


----------



## Adam

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

What has he proven? That he's brittle? A poor game manager? He can't feed the post and he has zero impact on defense. I think Batum will have a better season next year than Jameer so let's see how it goes.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Jayps15 said:


> I wouldn't trade Batum + an expiring for Jameer, and I especially wouldn't do it if he was on the Hornets because it would be obvious he'd need to be traded, lowering his value.


It all depends which team, a contender may bite for him.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Adam said:


> What has he proven? That he's brittle? A poor game manager? He can't feed the post and he has zero impact on defense. I think Batum will have a better season next year than Jameer so let's see how it goes.


Lol, that he can run a successful NBA team. That he is clutch and shows up for big games. That he's a capable #2 or #3 option, who can take on the scoring load... Can play at an all-star level for stretches. Will be a leader. 

I dont think I recall Batum doing anything substantial, on a big stage... Nice potential sure, but Jameer has been at his best when the lights are on him. You know what you get. Batum has not really been tested or proven anything, he just hasn't messed up.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Blue Magic said:


> Lol, that he can run a successful NBA team.


Lol no he can't. He can't manage the game and he doesn't see the floor. He has no court vision. His team has achieved more success without him than with him.



> That he is clutch and shows up for big games.


That's such a useless qualitative statement. He didn't show up in the Finals. He wasn't clutch against Boston this year when he was missing pass after pass. You can arbitrarily call anybody clutch. Steve Blake was clutch countless times for Portland. Derek Fisher was clutch. Plenty of guys are clutch. So what.



> That he's a capable #2 or #3 option, who can take on the *scoring load*... Can play at an all-star level for stretches. Will be a leader.


He should try carrying the passing load. He stalls his team's offense and he takes stupid jumpers that haven't won anything.



> I dont think I recall Batum doing anything substantial, on a big stage... Nice potential sure, but Jameer has been at his best when the lights are on him. You know what you get. Batum has not really been tested or proven anything, he just hasn't messed up.


He has been test in many ways. Regardless, I'm projecting him to be better than Jameer next year and that doesn't require much work experience. Batum would have been better than him last year if he hadn't gotten injured.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Game3525 said:


> Jameer has value as well, as a trading piece.


Not to the Hornets he doesn't. I mean, who do they trade him to and for what? The Magic scenario just doesn't work very well for the Hornets because Orlando's "young talent" basically project to bench depth, their picks would be worthless and the best player they can supply N'awlins with is an injury-prone Mo Williams clone whom they'd need to trade anyway.


----------



## HB

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

And Bayless would be?


----------



## Diable

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I rather doubt that there is any trade. It just makes no sense for the Hornets. In the end CP will show up and play hard if they don't trade him. He's not Vince Carter. They simply haven't done enough to take advantage of having him fall into their lap. He's not happy with the team's progress and there's not much reason why he should be. None of the moves they've made have worked and this year they simply didn't have the wherewithal to make moves, especially when they've made avoiding the luxury tax their priority instead of placing a competitive team on the floor.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Paul is upset because the Hornets promised him they'd try to be active in the free agent market, but they weren't at all, even with second tier guys. They couldn't at least offer Mike Miller something, to show Paul they're trying? He's befuddled and frustrated with the Hornets' complete lack of activity, specifically after activiely promising him otherwise. 

If they had leveled with him and told him spending would be tough that's one thing, but you don't lie to me and tell me you plan to do one thing and do another. That makes you untrustworthy and I don't want to associate with you anymore, I feel where Paul is coming from. 

People can call him what they want but he's not wrong here.


----------



## Jayps15

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HB said:


> And Bayless would be?


Bayless would be a young cheap prospect put in to sweeten the deal, not as the main asset to be acquired outside of expirings like Nelson. 2 yrs left on his rookie deal with potential left to realize, he's younger today than Nelson was when he was drafted.


----------



## Jayps15

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> Paul is upset because the Hornets promised him they'd try to be active in the free agent market, but they weren't at all, even with second tier guys. They couldn't at least offer Mike Miller something, to show Paul they're trying? He's largely befuddled and frustrated with the Hornets' complete lack of activity, specifically after activiely promising him otherwise.
> 
> If they had leveled with him and told him spending would be tough that's one thing, but you don't lie to me and tell me you plan to do one thing and do another. That makes you untrustworthy and I don't want to associate with you anymore, I feel where Paul is coming from.
> 
> People can call him what they want but he's not wrong here.


Agreed, it's not like he didn't try the last two season, but with their injuries and cost cutting moves they just don't have the talent to go very deep. All the teams at the top are spending money and paying the tax to try and improve, while the Hornets are trading back in the 1st round to try and avoid the tax.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I don't understand why they didn't dangle Peja and picks out there and at least put their name in the Bosh/Amare race, just to say they did. 

And one can say, oh, they didn't want to spend...but if they want to keep Paul they're going to have to anyway.


----------



## HB

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> Paul is upset because the Hornets promised him they'd try to be active in the free agent market, but they weren't at all, even with second tier guys. They couldn't at least offer Mike Miller something, to show Paul they're trying? He's largely befuddled and frustrated with the Hornets' complete lack of activity, specifically after activiely promising him otherwise.
> 
> If they had leveled with him and told him spending would be tough that's one thing, but you don't lie to me and tell me you plan to do one thing and do another. That makes you untrustworthy and I don't want to associate with you anymore, I feel where Paul is coming from.
> 
> People can call him what they want but he's not wrong here.


*He's not?*


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

If his circumstances deem him a quitter, than I guess he'll have to be one in your book. I really don't have much more to say than what I just said a couple posts up.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

This isn't even comparable though, Lebron was a free agent, he had every right to leave. Also, I don't really blame Paul for wanting out, New Orleans is never going to field a contender.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



VanillaPrice said:


> Okay, maybe I slept on Kevin Durant, but I'd still probably take Paul over him.
> 
> Carmelo, however, isn't even in the discussion. Dude is a talented scorer and a solid rebounder. Paul is a great scorer, a fantastic passer, a very good rebounder, and one of the best in the league at creating steals. The only year in his career that he had talent around him he was one game away from the WCF. Carmelo isn't on his level, and it's not close.


Melo's been to the conference finals and is a year older. Taking injuries into account, why would you take Paul that high? He had one outstanding year, then some great individual years. How is that different from Melo?


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I'm glad the Hornets didn't go after Mike Miller. Mike Miller is done, yet people keep thinking he's good.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Alright, well why didn't they go after anyone else. Don't make it about him, he was just an example I used.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> Melo's been to the conference finals and is a year older. Taking injuries into account, why would you take Paul that high? He had one outstanding year, then some great individual years. How is that different from Melo?


That outstanding year came when his teammates cared to play with him for 48 minutes. 

West and Peja have been distracted or something, Chandler was injury prone, Okafor isn't that good...I'm trying to understand how you can act like he should have that held against him.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Adam said:


> Lol no he can't. He can't manage the game and he doesn't see the floor. He has no court vision. His team has achieved more success without him than with him.


This is just an ignorant statement. The team definitely has not achieved more w/o him, we were a much better team 2 years ago w/ him, than w/o him... Anybody who watched the team the full season would attest to that. You think we brought him back in the Finals just for kicks? lol, clearly you dont even watch that team, along with half the other ppl who said we were'nt even contenders in the east that year.



> That's such a useless qualitative statement. He didn't show up in the Finals. He wasn't clutch against Boston this year when he was missing pass after pass. You can arbitrarily call anybody clutch. Steve Blake was clutch countless times for Portland. Derek Fisher was clutch. Plenty of guys are clutch. So what.


He didn't 'show up' in the Finals because he was out of shape and the intensity in the Finals is higher than ever. You expect him to not play a game for 4 months, but be in prime form for the most intense level of basketball? Damn. I would love to see what Batum has done to impress you, that makes you hold Jameer to these standards...

All I know is, in '08 dude was our clutchest player in the post-season, and he carried that play over to 08-09 season. He was having a beast of a season before the torn labrum, but his improvement was the main reason we went from mid-level playoff team to competing for the #1 overall record @ the time of his injury(When he got injured we fell off from 1st to like the 5th overall record... or if i recall correct, we had an .800 record w/ and fell to slight over a .500 record w/o... Clearly not as fluid a team). He had a slower start to the 2010 season, but he stepped it back up @ the end and for the 2010 playoffs(just as he's been in the previous playoffs he was healthy for). He was a large reason for the ease of our run to the ECF's. Last year we made the Finals but we looked terrible getting there, almost giving away the 1st and 2nd rounds series'...



> He should try carrying the passing load. He stalls his team's offense and he takes stupid jumpers that haven't won anything.


Ok, what does passing load have to do with anything? He's not a below average passer, he's not an above average passer... Meer played fine. Maybe if Vince decides to hit some jumpers, it wouldn't be a problem. Maybe if SVG plays Rashard at the 3, we have all of a sudden have another favorable matchup we could go to.

Jameer's passing is not why we lost, Jameer's shooting or decision making is not why we lost, Boston was just better and smarter than us. Not moving Shard to the 3 cost us the series, and was just dumb. Didn't even give us a chance. Shard couldn't score on KG, but SVG forced him @ the PF spot for stubborn reasons. Aside from Dwight, Jameer & JJ were the only other 2 guys who played serviceable for the series, if you ask me...



> He has been test in many ways. Regardless, I'm projecting him to be better than Jameer next year and that doesn't require much work experience. Batum would have been better than him last year if he hadn't gotten injured.


Aight, well that's not what you said but whatever. Sure I can see NOH gambling on the younger talent but to say Batum is better right now, I dont see that... But sure, i'll say he does have POTENTIAL to fit in better with NOH's plans. If you said that i'd agree, but as far as i'm concerned the guy still needs to prove himself in a bigger role.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> That outstanding year came when his teammates cared to play with him for 48 minutes.
> 
> West and Peja have been distracted or something, Chandler was injury prone, Okafor isn't that good...I'm trying to understand how you can act like he should have that held against him.


In case we forgot, Paul just missed 45 games a year ago. Maybe that is why they weren't as good as they could be. If he was healthy, they win 50 games. Team isn't that bad. Dude got injured, but to say all of his teammates just suck is flat out wrong. 

You guys just seem to love to protect all these guys who put up the best stats. It's not just stats alone.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Don't try to hit me with that, because I'm the main person who says stats are too circumstantial for me.

It's about gauging a guys contribution to his team's efforts to win games, and there's just no way I can say a healthy Paul doesn't have a more effective and widespread contribution than Carmelo Anthony. 

And then..if he _was_ healthy and they win 50 games, you wouldn't even have that team success excuse to fall back on for Carmelo, so what are you really saying? Are you basically saying because Paul was injured last year you wouldn't take him in general over Carmelo?


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I wouldn't take Paul over Anthony.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HB said:


> And Bayless would be?


He has more potential than Ryan Anderson, that's for certain.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Craziness


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> I wouldn't take Paul over Anthony.


Why not?

Paul has more of an impact on the game, if Melo isn't scoring then he isn't really all that useful. And if it wasn't for Billups, Melo would be this generation's version of Tracy McGrady in terms of playoff success.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Not gonna lie I might take Anthony over Paul too but Anthony is pretty much my favorite player, so I might be biased. When you're talking about Paul or Anthony tho, you're just being greedy. I'd be happy if my team could just get one of them, much less would I be picky over which one does more to enact winning. I like what both of them can bring to a team.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Naw we're doing too much. For two years we've been putting Paul right under Kobe and LeBron now we're comparing him to Carmelo? Prisoners of the moment. This is going to look like a stupid discussion come February no matter who Paul is playing for.


----------



## Jakain

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Melo is an arguably top 10 player but CP3 is arguably top 5 and actually gets a significant amount of MVP votes when he's healthy FWIW (finished 2nd to Kobe back in '08, 5th in '09). If you're starting from scratch you easily go with CP3.


----------



## HB

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

They just got Demps from a pretty reputable organization isnt it a bit premature to keep saying they haven't gone after anyone....this is a brand new GM in place.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

That's BS. I don't care how new you are you don't have to have a spreadsheet and powerpoint presentation with all the potential ramifications of offering a role player a MLE contract.


----------



## Duck

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HB said:


> They just got Demps from a pretty reputable organization isnt it a bit premature to keep saying they haven't gone after anyone....this is a brand new GM in place.


The brand new GM in the brand new place 7 years ago was named John Weisbrod. He traded Tracy McGrady for Steve Francis and went on to work for an NHL team. The organization brought in basically a henchman to do their dirty work and then shipped him off a couple years later. 

I'd trade Paul if I were in his situation. His trade value is not going to increase and given the state of management, they are not going to be able to build a contender in the next 2 years. Or even start really. I believe the earlier you can trade a player, the better pieces they'll get back. This isn't a Lakers situation where the Hornets have the opportunity to get a top 20 player for a half eaten sandwich and a bag of chips, especially when the Hornets are looking to spend as little money as possible. There are some similarities between TMac's situation back then and Paul's now. TMac didn't want to wait around and be apart of another rebuilding process in Orlando. Paul doesn't want to be part of another rebuilding process either. 

I am in no way saying that Orlando is the likely destination for Paul, but VC's expiring contract would look pretty attractive to me if I was the owner of the Hornets right now.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> Naw we're doing too much. For two years we've been putting Paul right under Kobe and LeBron now we're comparing him to Carmelo? Prisoners of the moment. This is going to look like a stupid discussion come February no matter who Paul is playing for.


And for two years you've been wrong to do so. Paul is arguably one of the NBA's top 10 players. It will only look silly if he's playing with Howard.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Chris Paul is arguably top 10 huh...:sarcasm:...OK.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> Paul is arguably one of the NBA's top 10 players.


And Hitler was slightly cranky.


----------



## Idunkonyou

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Amazing how scared people are around the internet of the Magic getting Paul to the point they are in denial of how good our players are, LOL!


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> He had one outstanding year, then some great individual years. How is that different from Melo?


Because Paul's great individual years are better than Carmelo's outstanding year.


----------



## Basel

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Orlando vs. Miami in the ECF would be so awesome to watch if CP3 goes to Orlando (assuming Boston doesn't kick ass in the playoffs again after an ordinary regular season - you just never know with that team).


----------



## jokeaward

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Hopefully Melo goes to the Knicks or Brooklyn and Paul goes East, dooming teams like Philly that might ship Iguodala to MN.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

If Chris Paul is only arguably top 10, then LeBron is the only player in the league who isn't arguably top 10, because that's the only player who is clearly better than him. Take Wade or Howard over Paul if you like, there is an argument for that without question, but Paul is without question top 10 and pretty obviously top 5 too if you're not too obsessed with team success defining individual players.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Idunkonyou said:


> Amazing how scared people are around the internet of the Magic getting Paul to the point they are in denial of how good our players are, LOL!


It is good to see Idunkonyou has recovered from the Magic's playoff debacle.


----------



## jokeaward

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Sir Patchwork said:


> If Chris Paul is only arguably top 10, then LeBron is the only player in the league who isn't arguably top 10, because that's the only player who is clearly better than him. Take Wade or Howard over Paul if you like, there is an argument for that without question, but Paul is without question top 10 and pretty obviously top 5 too if you're not too obsessed with team success defining individual players.


Pau has passed him... lol. Artest is on his heels!


----------



## Idunkonyou

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Game3525 said:


> It is good to see Idunkonyou has recovered from the Magic's playoff debacle.


So making it to the ECFs is a playoff debacle now, LOL! Good to see people around here are still POS.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

According to Orlando fans in 2009? Yes.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Idunkonyou said:


> So making it to the ECFs is a playoff debacle now, LOL!


It was debacle, they went down 3-0.


----------



## jokeaward

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Idunkonyou said:


> So making it to the ECFs is a playoff debacle now, LOL! Good to see people around here are still POS.


The only real team they played got up 3-0 on them. Even Cleveland started out strong and pushed them thru 4 games. Atlanta was like the SWAC winner, automatic bid of the NBA.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

No, Chris Paul isn't one of the top 5 players in the NBA.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> No, Chris Paul isn't one of the top 5 players in the NBA.


And why not? You have not backed up your points, what so ever.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Game3525 said:


> And why not? You have not backed up your points, what so ever.


He just isn't, k?


----------



## Duck

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I'd also agree that Chris is not a top five player. He doesn't look forth non-assist pass as much as he should, is only a decent outside shooter and gambles a lot on defense. He is flashier than Deron, and I feel as though people often say he is hands down the better point because of this. I'd rather have Kobe, Wade, Durant, LeBron, Howard as my top five. Sort of nit picky, but I'd throw him in my top 6-8 with Deron and Carmelo. I value Deron's size a lot more than the average fan, so I would rather have him. But top ten no question.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Chris Paul is better then Deron Williams, He takes care of the ball better, shoots a higher percentage, and played with less talent then Williams. Hell, and off year for Paul was Deron's best season.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> Paul is *arguably* one of the NBA's top 10 players.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I would love to see who he is having that argument with.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I am still waiting for GrandKenyon6 explanation, I can see him arguing Paul isn't top five(Which I disagree with), but not top ten? Really, which ten players are ahead of him.


----------



## eddymac

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

LeBron done started something, but it seems like these players have no heart anymore it's like they want it easy, why not grind it out and win with a team built around you?


----------



## Ben

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

New Orleans have had 5 years to build something around Paul. Cavs had 7 years. That's half a career for a lot of players.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Paul is an absolute lock for top seven or so, you can't drop him lower then that without being a complete moron. In reality though he's more like on the botton half of the top five, and possibly higher when healthy.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



FX™ said:


> New Orleans have had 5 years to build something around Paul. Cavs had 7 years. That's half a career for a lot of players.


The problem with this type of logic is that neither one of these guys were even getting to the playoffs in the first two years. Paul has only been at an all-star level for the last three years (one of which he spent half the year in street clothes), how is that enough time to build a contender, especially when he's not making any commitment to stay. 

There can't be an expectation to go from a top 4 pick in the draft to NBA contender within a year. It totally defeats the purpose of the draft, which is to let the worst teams get the best talents to give them an opportunity to elevate a franchise. 

Should I feel bad for them because they weren't drafted by LA or San Antonio and couldn't contend from the jump? Lebron picked #1, Paul picked #4. I sure hope more people aren't using this type of logic.


----------



## Duck

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



VanillaPrice said:


> Paul is an absolute lock for top seven or so, you can't drop him lower then that without being a complete moron. In reality though he's more like on the botton half of the top five, and possibly higher *when healthy*.


I also have a bit of a problem with this qualifier. I know I'm sort of a hypocrite because I'm ranking Wade really high as well, but how often a player can stay on a court factors into how good he is. Whether it be that he's less likely to get injured, or he plays through injuries most other players would not (see: Bryant, Kobe), the relative health of a player has to be factored into how good he is.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> The problem with this type of logic is that neither one of these guys were even getting to the playoffs in the first two years. Paul has only been at an all-star level for the last three years (one of which he spent half the year in street clothes), how is that enough time to build a contender, especially when he's not making any commitment to stay.
> 
> There can't be an expectation to go from a top 4 pick in the draft to NBA contender within a year. It totally defeats the purpose of the draft, which is to let the worst teams get the best talents to give them an opportunity to elevate a franchise.
> 
> Should I feel bad for them because they weren't drafted by LA or San Antonio and couldn't contend from the jump? Lebron picked #1, Paul picked #4. I sure hope more people aren't using this type of logic.


Any GM worth his salt is going to build while his star is developing..look at Portland, or OKC. You don't wait until your star hits his prime then try to develop around him.


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> Any GM worth his salt is going to build while his star is developing..look at Portland, or OKC. You don't wait until your star hits his prime then try to develop around him.


They were building towards the future by means of acquiring picks and hoping that the the players they drafted could become solid and only cost the rookie salary. Basically, toss **** against the wall and see what sticks, but both these gm's have good instincts with drafting players so it works. Chris Paul and the success the hornets had in 07-08 may have been the problem, considering they looked to be a legit title contender and thus overpaid for posey and forfeited getting anything in that draft (not such a bad idea to sell the pick considering the lack of talent where they were picking). The fact is, Chris Paul jumped in and transformed the team completely, so instead of taking their time and trying to grow young players around him, they went the vet route to win now. Didn't really work out like they planned, but I still dont think the sample size is near large enough to close the book yet.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

5 years is just fine. 4 drafts, 4 years to work your assets into something...it's over.


----------



## Jayps15

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Tooeasy said:


> They were building towards the future by means of acquiring picks and hoping that the the players they drafted could become solid and only cost the rookie salary. Basically, toss **** against the wall and see what sticks, but both these gm's have good instincts with drafting players so it works. Chris Paul and the success the hornets had in 07-08 may have been the problem, considering they looked to be a legit title contender and thus overpaid for posey and *forfeited getting anything in that draft (not such a bad idea to sell the pick considering the lack of talent where they were picking).* The fact is, Chris Paul jumped in and transformed the team completely, so instead of taking their time and trying to grow young players around him, they went the vet route to win now. Didn't really work out like they planned, but I still dont think the sample size is near large enough to close the book yet.


Funnily enough that pick that they sold to POR was traded along with a second rounder for Nicolas Batum in the end.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The 2 biggest blunders were signing Peja and trading Chandler for Okafor. If they still had Chandler they could've made moves this offseason to improve the roster. As of now they're stuck with another 40-45win/8th seed team with Paul in the lineup.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

People hate on the Magic signing Shard, but in retrospect, It will always be the right move regardless of the contract if it keeps Dwight here for the majority of his career(and we remain competitive)... It has kept Dwight happy and showed him that we are committed, unlike what some other teams have done.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

If Orlando doesn't do anything to improve the team this year or next year, you guys can kiss Dwight goodbye. 

This Paul trade is more important to Magic fans than most imagine. To me this is the last chance for Orlando to improve significantly. If this falls through the team that they have right now will be the same team they'll have next year with the exception of VC. That's not good enough to beat Miami and probably not even enough to beat the Celtics.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Are you being sarcastic?

The Magic have been to the ECFs twice now, and everyone's still in their relative prime. They can flip Vince into another chip and be fine.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™ said:


> Are you being sarcastic?
> 
> The Magic have been to the ECFs twice now, and everyone's still in their relative prime. They can flip Vince into another chip and be fine.


There is no sarcasm anywhere. Orlando got their ass handed to them by the Celtics and look what they've done so far to remedy that defeat. They got Chris Duhon, Q Rich and lost Barnes. That is all, that is their summer. Am I to be convinced that this team has made enough strides to be able to be better than Boston/Miami/Lakers? 

If they don't trade for Paul I honestly don't think they will trade VC for more contracts. As of now their total salary is well over 90 mil and that's not counting Q Rich's contract. By signing Redick to that big contract I would say it's more likely that they let Vince walk than trading him for another big contract. Even then, if they don't get Paul, who is out there that Orlando can get for VC?


----------



## LamarButler

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

As long as Dwight continues to have zero offensive skills, and Perkins plays for the Celtics, the Magic aren't getting past the Celtics.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



seifer0406 said:


> There is no sarcasm anywhere. Orlando got their ass handed to them by the Celtics and look what they've done so far to remedy that defeat. They got Chris Duhon, Q Rich and lost Barnes. That is all, that is their summer. Am I to be convinced that this team has made enough strides to be able to be better than Boston/Miami/Lakers?
> 
> If they don't trade for Paul I honestly don't think they will trade VC for more contracts. As of now their total salary is well over 90 mil and that's not counting Q Rich's contract. By signing Redick to that big contract I would say it's more likely that they let Vince walk than trading him for another big contract. Even then, if they don't get Paul, who is out there that Orlando can get for VC?


All that said Dwight isn't going anywhere. 

You can't compare Paul and Dwight. Dwight's been to the damn finals already, the team went hard at it for 3-4 years now, he'll sit back and let them take 2-3 years to rebuild. 

Paul's been running around with spare parts for 4 years, one aberrational year notwithstanding.


----------



## ATLien

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

That would be hilarious if Dwight pulled a LeBron/Paul and asked to be traded to a stacked team. Hi****ingliarious. I hope it happens just to watch you guys go on about how it makes Dwight look like that much more of a competitor.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

He wouldn't be pulling a "Paul/LeBron"...why are we acting like players haven't been demanding trades since time and memorial?


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre™;6335344 said:


> All that said Dwight isn't going anywhere.
> 
> You can't compare Paul and Dwight. Dwight's been to the damn finals already, the team went hard at it for 3-4 years now, he'll sit back and let them take 2-3 years to rebuild.
> 
> Paul's been running around with spare parts for 4 years, one aberrational year notwithstanding.


I'm not comparing Paul with Dwight, but you could compare him to Lebron if you want to. Orlando gets an extra year of Dwight also, Cleveland folks only got 7.

Orlando struggled to create shots last year against the Celtics. It was comical watching Orlando ride Jameer Nelson for 40 minutes a game on offense. Name me one thing that they've done so far to solve that problem. *Nothing*, NOT A THING. If this Paul trade doesn't come through, what other moves do you guys have in mind for Orlando this offseason? Because if they don't do anything, we can just wrap it up because everyone knows what'll happen in the playoffs. 

Don't even try the loyalty bull**** with these star athletes. I'm not saying it's impossible that Dwight stays because of loyalty but you have to be nuts to count on it if you're Orlando. Improve the team or else consider him gone.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Lamar Butler said:


> As long as Dwight continues to have zero offensive skills, and Perkins plays for the Celtics, the Magic aren't getting past the Celtics.


Why? Dwight scored above his season avg against Perk. We just needed someone to slow Pierce, either that or Vince needs to show up on offense to match him. In terms of point differential SF had to be the worse mismatch of the series, def wasn't the center position. Shard sucked, but at least he contained KG a little bit. Put Shard at the 3 and he would produce much better against Pierce, cuz he could just go to the post. Vince just got ate up on both ends, which was the problem. Meer, Shard at least they kept their matchups closer to their production. Dwight dominated the C matchup... Vince got dominated in the Pierce matchup. Then JJ vs Ray Allen, obviously Allen is better. We need Vince to step it up in his matchup, on at least one end of the court.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

:laugh: No. 

And yeah, maybe we don't know what kind of trade requests or situations are on the horizon, but let's not act like the Magic's hopes for the next 3 years hinges on this one move. Be for real. If it's not Paul, so what you go a tier or two down, but the Magic aren't that far away. They've proven they can be a successful team in the playoffs, unlike the Cavaliers and the Hornets. 

Their issues are strategic, not mental, so they can fill those holes. The Magic are fine.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Blue Magic said:


> Why? Dwight scored above his season avg against Perk.


The point really is that so long as Boston can defend Howard in single coverage, and they can, it's a lot easier for the perimeter defenders to chase shooters off the three point line and grind Orlando's offense to a stop.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Yeah, I guess Orlando hasn't made any moves so far because they're counting on VC stepping up next year becoming the playmaker and game winner that HB claims he can be. :baseldance:


----------



## Jakain

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Any chance the Hornets try to pull off a Miami 2.0 and clear capspace for guys like Melo and Dwight?


----------



## hobojoe

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



LamarButler said:


> As long as Dwight continues to have zero offensive skills, and Perkins plays for the Celtics, the Magic aren't getting past the Celtics.


Perkins who? Or is your memory very bad?


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



seifer0406 said:


> Yeah, I guess Orlando hasn't made any moves so far because they're counting on VC stepping up next year becoming the playmaker and game winner that HB claims he can be. :baseldance:


We still have guys last year who didn't even play like Bass... move him to the 4, put Shard at the 3, and go big against the C's.. It's probly too late tho, cuz regardless of that series I dont see anybody beating Miami in the east. Not unless we can get acpl power moves to go down.


----------



## HEATLUNATIC

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



E.H. Munro said:


> The point really is that so long as Boston can defend Howard in single coverage, and they can, it's a lot easier for the perimeter defenders to chase shooters off the three point line and grind Orlando's offense to a stop.


We'll have to wait for Perkins knee to heal before making statements like "Boston can defend Howard in single coverage". 

With a torn MCL/PCL Perkins cutting and lateral movement could be sapped permanently. If thats the case the assumption of guarding Howard 1 on 1 goes right out the window.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Blue Magic said:


> We still have guys last year who didn't even play like Bass... move him to the 4, put Shard at the 3, and go big against the C's.


Starting a 6'7" PF doesn't really qualify as "going big".


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Super Friends said:


> We'll have to wait for Perkins knee to heal before making statements like "Boston can defend Howard in single coverage".
> 
> With a torn MCL/PCL Perkins cutting and lateral movement could be sapped permanently. If thats the case the assumption of guarding Howard 1 on 1 goes right out the window.


You clearly haven't watched a lot of Perkins, he never had much lateral quickness. :bsmile:


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Blue Magic said:


> We still have guys last year who didn't even play like Bass... move him to the 4, put Shard at the 3, and go big against the C's.. It's probly too late tho, cuz regardless of that series I dont see anybody beating Miami in the east. Not unless we can get acpl power moves to go down.


Yeah, good thing they got a new coach in place to try something different next year.


----------



## HEATLUNATIC

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



E.H. Munro said:


> You clearly haven't watched a lot of Perkins, he never had much lateral quickness. :bsmile:


I'd say he was pretty athletic for being the 6'10 280+lb tank that he is! If he goes stiff after this injury...Boston is ******!


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I didn't see much of Jermaine O'neal last year when he was in Miami but when he was with the Raptors for that half season he did a great job for us guarding Dwight. If Perkins comes back midseason and JO stays relatively healthy Perk+JO is an improvement in terms of defense than Perk+Sheed.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Portland, Houston or Dallas seem like the most likely destinations.

Not sure how the Hornets could get a better offer than Beaubois, Butler, Chandler, Stevenson, Ajinca (cap purposes) and draft picks for Paul, Posey and Okafor.

I think Paul will be a Hornet when the season starts.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

If NJ can get Melo next year maybe Dwight/Paul/Melo in NJ in 2012?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Oh and maybe Deron, Tyreke Evans and Al Horford in 2013. And Wall, Barnes and Cousins in 2019.

Be for real. This ain't gonna happen every year.


----------



## Ben

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



seifer0406 said:


> Yeah, I guess Orlando hasn't made any moves so far because they're counting on VC stepping up next year becoming the playmaker and game winner that HB claims he can be. :baseldance:


----------



## LamarButler

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Blue Magic said:


> Why? Dwight scored above his season avg against Perk. We just needed someone to slow Pierce, either that or Vince needs to show up on offense to match him. In terms of point differential SF had to be the worse mismatch of the series, def wasn't the center position. Shard sucked, but at least he contained KG a little bit. Put Shard at the 3 and he would produce much better against Pierce, cuz he could just go to the post. Vince just got ate up on both ends, which was the problem. Meer, Shard at least they kept their matchups closer to their production. Dwight dominated the C matchup... Vince got dominated in the Pierce matchup. Then JJ vs Ray Allen, obviously Allen is better. We need Vince to step it up in his matchup, on at least one end of the court.


Point is, Perk's size and strength doesn't require any other Celtics to help out on Dwight. And Dwight's not skilled enough to punish the Celtics thoroughly for single coverage. As a big 3 point shooting team, single coverage on Dwight is an obstacle to their offense.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



E.H. Munro said:


> Starting a 6'7" PF doesn't really qualify as "going big".


Hah, fine start Anderson then he's 6'10. Happy?



LamarButler said:


> Point is, Perk's size and strength doesn't require any other Celtics to help out on Dwight. And Dwight's not skilled enough to punish the Celtics thoroughly for single coverage. As a big 3 point shooting team, single coverage on Dwight is an obstacle to their offense.


Well we were fine 2 years ago w/ Perk in the middle, so I dont really think he is the answer or the problem. Problem imo was that Pierce was getting 30 a night(he didn't do that last year), and Shard didn't have a favorable matchup this year. It would be more accurate to say as long KG and Pierce are in Boston, you dont have to worry. Cause KG has the length to throw Shard off and Pierce can score at will on Vince. Not to mention how Ray Allen opens up the offense running off of screens. All much more key to beating us than Perkins, imo.


----------



## Coatesvillain

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



LamarButler said:


> Point is, Perk's size and strength doesn't require any other Celtics to help out on Dwight. And Dwight's not skilled enough to punish the Celtics thoroughly for single coverage. As a big 3 point shooting team, single coverage on Dwight is an obstacle to their offense.


I must've been watching a different series because while he had a bad game 1 and 3 Dwight was putting in work.

The problem isn't his offense the problem is the Magic's reluctance to get him the ball when he initially gets in position. I get that they're a shooting team but if they get him the ball early it'll make everything else better. He had games of 30, 32, and 28 points and could've put up more if he had more touches.

Having perimeter players who are more willing (and able) to jack up terrible shots than feed the post is a bigger hindrance to the Magic than Howard's offense. Give him a wing (or point) who is more capable of feeding him and Perkins can't guard him one on one.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Blue Magic said:


> Hah, fine start Anderson then he's 6'10. Happy?


I think what you're getting at is that the PF position is a huge problem for the Magic. :bsmile:





Blue Magic said:


> Well we were fine 2 years ago w/ Perk in the middle


That had a lot to do with the fact that Perkins was the only healthy player on the roster taller than 6'7". It's kind of tough to win in the NBA when your roster is more size-appropriate for the USBL.


----------



## Jakain

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

FWIW:



> Hornets GM confident Paul staying put
> 
> NEW ORLEANS -- Hornets general manager Dell Demps says star guard Chris Paul did not request a trade during a meeting with New Orleans executives.
> 
> Demps says he is confident that Paul will be playing with the Hornets this season after Monday's meeting, which included new coach Monty Williams and team president Hugh Weber.
> 
> In a statement released by the team, Paul says he likes what he heard during the meeting from the Hornets about the "direction they want to take the team." Paul also says he hopes to remain with the team for years to come.
> 
> Paul has two years remaining before he can opt out of his current contract with the Hornets.
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5411166


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

New Orleans probably did the smart thing and told him that they're not trading him.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

It doesn't matter what is actually said in these meetings because they're going to come out and say Paul is staying in New Orleans. If they plan on trading him, they'd still say that to drive up trade value. Paul will most likely be a Hornet next season, but this statement means little.


----------



## JerryWest

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Sir Patchwork said:


> It doesn't matter what is actually said in these meetings because they're going to come out and say Paul is staying in New Orleans. If they plan on trading him, they'd still say that to drive up trade value. Paul will most likely be a Hornet next season, but this statement means little.


Yep agreed on all counts.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I believe that Hornets Management group tells Chris some unrealistic proposals or ideas. It is more like kim kardashian tells Lamar Odom make good on her promise...., then Lamar is very happy.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

So can we take back saying Paul is some sissy - crybaby just because he wanted to challenge the team on just what the hell they've been doing for 3 years?


----------



## Floods

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



eddymac said:


> LeBron done started something, but it seems like these players have no heart anymore it's like they want it easy, why not grind it out and win with a team built around you?


They wanted championships, and it's painfully obvious to anyone paying attention that Cleveland wasn't and New Orleans isn't winning a championship anytime soon, with or without their respective stars.

LeBron and Paul aren't cowards, they're actually being smart and not letting some idiotic 'they're not competitors' talk get in the way of what they want.

Too bad Nowitzki wasn't smart enough to bail on Dallas.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/68371/20100726/report_paul_still_wants_to_be_traded/

Paul still wants to be traded, according to reports. It's comical how frequent these reports have become. I really just want the season to start already. This offseason has been eventuful, which is better than a normal offseason which is nothingness for 4 months, but it's still been a headache.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Floods said:


> Too bad Nowitzki wasn't smart enough to bail on Dallas.












Watch your mouth boy


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

"Basically, he doesn't think they're good enough and he's put LeBron's people around him for a reason," the person familiar with Paul's strategy said. "And he doesn't want to wait two years and be *27 years old *trying to get on a championship team. He wants to do it now." 

Read more: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archi..._paul_still_wants_to_be_traded/#ixzz0uqjfayz6

Really, 27 is old now?


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Game3525 said:


> "Basically, he doesn't think they're good enough and he's put LeBron's people around him for a reason," the person familiar with Paul's strategy said. "And he doesn't want to wait two years and be *27 years old *trying to get on a championship team. He wants to do it now."
> 
> Read more: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archi..._paul_still_wants_to_be_traded/#ixzz0uqjfayz6
> 
> Really, 27 is old now?


When you're a six footer that crashes the rim? Yeah. Those guys tend to go downhill quickly once they pass 30.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Lol, where you been? Jameer is 27 and not considered young asset..


----------



## Ron

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

*"The telltale thing is that Chris Paul won't comment publicly other than what was released about it," said a person familiar with Paul's strategy.*

That's a strategy?

Not saying anything when you have already said everything in a press release?

How many people believe these guys are just tripping on magic 'shrooms?

Meanwhile, the Rabbit, having taken a watch out of its waistcoat pocket, said, "Oh dear! Oh dear! I shall be late!"

Alice started after the rabbit and fortunately was just in time to see it pop down a large rabbit-hole under the hedge.

In another moment down went Alice after it, never once considering how in the world she was to get out again.

..........................


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Re-enactment of the Chris Paul meeting :

Hornets : STFU or we'll trade you to whichever [email protected]$$ team offers us the most b/c you don't have a no-trade clause.

Chris Paul : I've suddenly decided I like the direction of this franchise.


----------



## Kidd

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



kbdullah said:


> Re-enactment of the Chris Paul meeting :
> 
> Hornets : STFU or we'll trade you to whichever [email protected]$$ team offers us the most b/c you don't have a no-trade clause.
> 
> Chris Paul : I've suddenly decided I like the direction of this franchise.


:laugh:


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



> Chris Paul's first choice is to play for the Knicks, sources say. He's willing to wait & sign w/NYK as free agent next summer.





> CP3 would also consider signing extension w/LA Clippers. But Clips' 1st choice is Dwight Howard, sources say....





> Clippers will do whatever it takes - outside of trading Blake Griffin - to get Dwight, sources say.


http://twitter.com/#!/chris_broussard


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Griffin/Howard >> Paul/Griffin

I see the Knicks finagling the space for Paul. It's one of those things that just seems destined.

And Dwight *definitely* wants to be in LA, don't let anyone and their speculation tell you different. In this era LA doesn't automatically mean the Lakers, even though that's probably his first choice. Don't see how the trade gets made when Jim Buss is on Bynum's balls, so a move to the Clippers would make sense. I get the sense Dwight doesn't have a ring on his mind as much as branching out and becoming a bigger brand. He's not a guy that was ordained to win ring after ring, that's on LeBron, so he doesn't feel that pressure. 

What's funny is when Dwight was coming up they tried to raise this stink about him being a religious fanatic and wanting to put the cross on the logo...and 8 years later he's fixated on being a hollyweird star.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

If I'm Clips I would pursue Paul over D Howard only because we would offer less players compared to D Howard...I would love to see a trio of Paul, Gordon and Griffin


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The CP3 to the Clippers thing is just to get page views the only world where Chris Paul would sign with the Clippers is a world where Marvin Williams and Jeff Teague is an enticing package.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> What's funny is when Dwight was coming up they tried to raise this stink about him being a religious fanatic and wanting to put the cross on the logo...and 8 years later he's fixated on being a hollyweird star.


He's a phony. In Shaq's book he talks about Dwight saying he has no relationship with him because he "doesn't like people with no originality" :laugh:. He even clowned on his dance moves.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Guys Guys Guys, lets be real here and take this with some reality.

Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are going to be in Houston next year. Duh!

Houston's salary next year can be significantly less if they do not take some player options, plus they can even use the amnesty. Current guaranteed salary next year without using an amnesty - $28,097,882

HOLLA


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

That is the salary if you choose to not pick up any of your team options and it does not include possible cap holds and rookie contracts a lot of teams have cap room it all comes down to where the players want to play.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



> Chris Paul on #Knicks speculation: "Right now, my heart is in New Orleans."


twitter.com/#!/KBergCBS


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Floods said:


> Too bad Nowitzki wasn't smart enough to bail on Dallas.


:laugh:

Yr later wins a title.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Knicks4life said:


> That is the salary if you choose to not pick up any of your team options and it does not include possible cap holds and rookie contracts a lot of teams have cap room it all comes down to where the players want to play.


I know. I am dreaming here ok?


----------



## Adam

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I don't understand why New Orleans wasn't contracted with the new labor negotiations. They're still NBA owned and still not wanted as part of the league. They can contract that franchise and improve the strength of the entire league.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Adam said:


> I don't understand why New Orleans wasn't contracted with the new labor negotiations. They're still NBA owned and still not wanted as part of the league. They can contract that franchise and improve the strength of the entire league.


The league is holding out hope that they can sell the team for $350 million.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Knicks4life said:


> The league is holding out hope that they can sell the team for $250 millions.


Have every other owner raise 10 million and contract the team. Get 'em out of here.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Adam said:


> Have every other owner raise 10 million and contract the team. Get 'em out of here.


Stern does not like the idea of teams being contracted because it would mean he overexpanded.


----------



## goodfoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

They need to move the Hornets to Seattle and bring the Sonics back.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The truth is that the Hornets have been making money the last I heard, but without Chris Paul the value of the franchise collapses and in the current economic climate it is unlikely that anyone is going to want to move that team, because you need some city that is willing to give you a sweetheart deal to get you to move. The taxpayers in Seattle would have to be willing to foot a big bill before they could move them there, which they would probably not be eager to do.


----------



## HB

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Louisville


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

*Celtics looking to deal point guard Rondo for Hornets star Paul*



> When ESPN.com reported on Tuesday that the Celtics would be willing to trade point guard Rajon Rondo for the right player, it surprised anyone who had seen the sixth-year player's mastery of the team's system in recent years.
> 
> But according to numerous sources with knowledge of the situation, Boston general manager Danny Ainge is highly motivated to land an even better point guard than the one who led the Celtics to a championship in 2008 and an average of 58.5 wins in the last four seasons: New Orleans' Chris Paul.
> 
> Ainge, the sources say, has recently discussed trading Rondo in a deal that nets Paul, but the Hornets don't appear interested in a two-team deal in which Rondo -- who has four years worth approximately $46 million left on his contract -- and Paul would switch places. So Ainge has been on the prowl for a third team that could provide the sort of young pieces Hornets general manager Dell Demps would covet as part of his possible rebuilding plan. The more pressing question, of course, is whether Paul, who can become a free agent after this season, would consider signing an extension with Boston.
> 
> While ESPN reports that New York tops Paul's wish list because of the chance to form a Big Three with Amar'e Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony, Paul would have a chance to take the Big Four -- joining Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen -- to a new level in Beantown. Without Paul agreeing to an extension, however, the sources say Ainge will not do the deal.
> 
> Intriguing as the Celtics possibility might be, the challenge for Ainge would be selling the 26-year-old Paul on the idea of joining a group of future Hall of Famers with an average age of 35. While Pierce is under contract through 2014, Garnett's and Allen's deals end after this season. What's more, Boston is merely one of the many teams who will be making a serious attempt to land Paul this season.
> 
> Paul, who will make $16.4 million this season and has a $17.8 million player option in 2012-13, is widely expected to turn down a forthcoming extension offer from New Orleans. If and when that occurs, it is believed that the Hornets -- who have just five players under contract currently and hardly look like the sort of championship contender Paul wants to be a part of -- will trade him at some point in order to avoid losing him for nothing in return next summer.
> 
> The Hornets add a unique element on their own as well: They are owned by the NBA, which has led to the question of whether it would prefer Paul stays put. The league bought the team for $310 million last December and the franchise value would almost certainly take a hit if the popular Paul departs. He has long been hailed as a local hero, a classy member of the community and more than capable athlete who arrived at the toughest of times in New Orleans. Paul was drafted fourth overall by the Hornets out of Wake Forest in 2005, just two months before Hurricane Katrina hit and the team played its next two seasons in Oklahoma City before returning.
> 
> This isn't the first time Ainge has attempted to make a bold move to improve his already formidable core. In February of 2010, he tried to acquire then Kings shooting guard Kevin Martin in a deal that was expected to include Allen. Four months later, the Celtics were falling to the Lakers in a seven-game NBA Finals for the ages.
> 
> While front-office executives have not been able to talk to agents or players during the lockout, they could talk to each other about possible deals. No deals can actually be done until the collective bargaining agreement has been officially ratified, which is expected to take place in time to start training camp and free agency on Dec. 9. The regular season is expected to start on Christmas Day.
> 
> Paul addressed questions about his future at the Boys & Girls Club event in, of all places, New York on Tuesday.
> 
> "I try not to pay attention to all that different type of stuff," Paul told reporters. "My heart is in New Orleans and right now the reason I'm here in New York is for [Anthony].
> 
> "I know I'm just happy to be here and be a part of it, to give these boxes out to the needy families and then going over to the [Five-Star Basketball] Clinic and seeing the smiles on the kids' faces when we show up."
> 
> He would certainly put a smile on Ainge's face if he saw Boston as a worthy destination.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Adam said:


> Have every other owner raise 10 million and contract the team. Get 'em out of here.


They already did that when they bought the team, most of those owners want their money back.



Diable said:


> The truth is that the Hornets have been making money the last I heard, but without Chris Paul the value of the franchise collapses and in the current economic climate it is unlikely that anyone is going to want to move that team, because you need some city that is willing to give you a sweetheart deal to get you to move. The taxpayers in Seattle would have to be willing to foot a big bill before they could move them there, which they would probably not be eager to do.


I'm fairly certain that Larry Ellison wouldn't care, and would be glad to move the team to San Jose anyway. The NBA would need be flexible about their "No billionaire basketball fans" policy, though. Maybe now that they have their new CBA they'll start letting in non-inestment groups again? (Leave aside the Nets for a moment, they needed the billionaire there to allow Ratner to build that new stadium in Brooklyn).



Knicks4life said:


> *Celtics looking to deal point guard Rondo for Hornets star Paul*


Make it happen, Danny!


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

So the NBA won't trade him unless he makes it an issue, which he won't...so he'll moonwalk to NY with a year less on his contract but oh well.

New Orleans fans enjoy the farewell tour


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

the math has been done and the max that can be offered to paul from new york in the offseason is 4 years at a total of 56ish million dollars, as opposed to almost 99 million dollars from a max contract by the hornets. leaving over 40 million on the table is a mighty tough sell no matter how much you wanna win. Couple that with the fact melo and amare really arent that elite of a tandem going forward and theyd have a roster of those three and a bunch of minimum guys, and the team realy isnt that enthralling.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

There's still things the Knicks can do to maximize their initial offer trade and amnesty wise

But even still...yeah right. Paul is *not* staying in New Orleans. He wants to be in NY, NY wants him, he's willing to put the money to the side to an extent. The Knicks make the right frugal moves (which they're going to do according to sources) and they'll be able to squeeze him in. 

Not to mention those 3 are at 3 crucial enough spots to play out of their minds and be good enough to get them 55+ wins a year and a good shot come playoff time, not to mention the MLE to sign some big ugly to rebound and defend next to Amare the year after. They're in a race against time with Amare's knees and back, but even still it's what Paul and CAA wants and that's what will happen. 

I guess Hornets fans have to feel like they still have a fighting chance or whatever...but it's not going to happen, no matter how much a guy "leaves on the table".

Like I said during the Melo saga, you have to stop acting like getting every cent is the end all in this situation, what the Knicks can offer Paul is probably still more than he'll ever spend, we're not talking about Kenny Anderson here. He's a lowkey guy, and if he has to leave money on the table to compete in June he will. You guys just continually mix these guys up as money hungry drones because of the average player who'll put up one season to get over market value. These top tier guys want to win, they want to be in the games that will matter 20 years from now when that money is probably spent.

This is probably the biggest slam dunk I've seen of any superstars situation ever. I would be more than shocked if Paul is not a Knick this time next year. And yes this is gonna be bumped either way


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

at the risk of being someone's sig par historium: Melo and Amare are not the building blocks for a title team anymore than Dominique or Alex English or Adrian Dantley or any number of other historical 'offense only' players have ever been


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I agree 100% but look around the league and the _realistic_ alternatives. Not to mention if Paul were to go there it becomes Paul and Melo, or just a rarely put together big 3. They'd cover the point, wing and post like few in history have no matter what you say.


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> There's still things the Knicks can do to maximize their initial offer trade and amnesty wise
> 
> But even still...yeah right. Paul is *not* staying in New Orleans. He wants to be in NY, NY wants him, he's willing to put the money to the side to an extent. The Knicks make the right frugal moves (which they're going to do according to sources) and they'll be able to squeeze him in.
> 
> Not to mention those 3 are at 3 crucial enough spots to play out of their minds and be good enough to get them 55+ wins a year and a good shot come playoff time, not to mention the MLE to sign some big ugly to rebound and defend next to Amare the year after. They're in a race against time with Amare's knees and back, but even still it's what Paul and CAA wants and that's what will happen.
> 
> I guess Hornets fans have to feel like they still have a fighting chance or whatever...but it's not going to happen, no matter how much a guy "leaves on the table".
> 
> Like I said during the Melo saga, you have to stop acting like getting every cent is the end all in this situation, what the Knicks can offer Paul is probably still more than he'll ever spend, we're not talking about Kenny Anderson here. He's a lowkey guy, and if he has to leave money on the table to compete in June he will. You guys just continually mix these guys up as money hungry drones because of the average player who'll put up one season to get over market value. These top tier guys want to win, they want to be in the games that will matter 20 years from now when that money is probably spent.
> 
> This is probably the biggest slam dunk I've seen of any superstars situation ever. I would be more than shocked if Paul is not a Knick this time next year. And yes this is gonna be bumped either way


Im not trying to convince myself anything about paul being a hornets after this season, or even through the end of this one, but to consider this a home run is just crazy. The eastern conference has really stepped up its talent level the past few seasons and honestly in a couple years the west is going to be much weak, so how would going to new york suddenly equate to being closer to winning anything? If he really gives a shit about winning so much then the thunder would be the absolute optimal destination, just look at how weak that division is and the fact that core ALREADY won 55 games last year.


----------



## ChosenFEW

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> Like I said during the Melo saga, you have to stop acting like getting every cent is the end all in this situation, what the Knicks can offer Paul is probably still more than he'll ever spend, we're not talking about Kenny Anderson here. He's a lowkey guy, and if he has to leave money on the table to compete in June he will. You guys just continually mix these guys up as money hungry drones because of the average player who'll put up one season to get over market value. These top tier guys want to win, they want to be in the games that will matter 20 years from now when that money is probably spent.



awwww i love your idealist attitude. its soooo cute.




e-monk said:


> at the risk of being someone's sig par historium: Melo and Amare are not the building blocks for a title team anymore than Dominique or Alex English or Adrian Dantley or any number of other historical 'offense only' players have ever been


quoted for later


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

It's a tandem of being in New York and winning. Yeah, joining the Knicks won't put them right on the cusp, but it surely beats being in New Orleans.

Those old Knicks teams probably never even won the tipoff, but they still get burn in fans' collective memories because it's the apple. Even if you lose you win.

And the most important issue when you look at this...again...what are the other *realistic* options? 

Westbrook's brain farts don't hit home like they did the day after the Thunder lost, they're prepared to go with him long term, so that's not an option. It would've been a long shot for the Thunder to consider trading him if this was a regular offseason, much less a period where optimism is renewed and they're all still young guys down there.

And like I said anyway the NBA will not trade him because they want to have optimal price for the next bidder. Trading a top tier player is not something the NBA is interested in PR wise. The Owners and Stern fought to institute a rule that would prevent another Carmelo situation...so sure it's only natural they emulate that situation they were against with a better player


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



ChosenFEW said:


> awwww i love your idealist attitude. its soooo cute.


Don't condescend me for one....

But if I'm so idealist why did the Heat sacrifice from their salaries to compete together? Why were Carmelo's people saying if push come to shove he'd risk going to New York in free agency? 

And going further back, why did Shaq and KG sacrifice from their extensions for the opportunities for their teams to bring in players to help them contend? I'm sure other posters could chime in with other examples of stars not taking every red cent in the name of winning

Those are 6 all-star starters I just mentioned (at the time of sacrifice), but ooooh I'm just so naive...

What is your counterpoint besides a weakass one-liner? Nothing? Another one-liner? Two lines?


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



> Chris Paul's first choice is to play for the Knicks, sources say. *He's willing to wait & sign w/NYK as free agent next summer.*


http://twitter.com/#!/chris_broussard

Chris Paul was at almost every single negotiation he knows about the money he is possibly walking away from and he is willing to do it.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

B-b-b-b-but it's all about the money!!!


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Good for him. Take half the money, go to new york, and still lose. Its not like anyone here is Chris Paul, its his choice and he can do whatever, but to act like the trio of him amare and melo would form the best team in the league is a terrible premise for doing this.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Who said anything about them being the best team in the league? I guess it's hard to fathom, but not winning a title doesn't mean he'll be "still losing". I'd rather win 50 games a year in New York with friends than bust my balls in NO for no reason.

If the Knicks run themselves to a good enough record for the Heat and Bulls to have to play second round then what? The window is closing in Boston...we're talking about a system that will inflate a win total. If they can get to the ECFs 2 times in 4 years **** what you heard that's a step up for Chris from doing nothing in NO. And I don't have to have the last name Paul to understand that.

It's not title or bust as much as it's ****ing competing. I'm sure being Chris Paul on the Hornets was fairly soul sapping, so anything might feel like a better option, much less lighting it up in a PG friendly system in New York city, with two all-stars. 

But no, let's just collect our checks in NO and accept potshots as a money hungry loser..that's a better premise :sarcasm:

Once again, I ask what is the better realistic option?


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The biggest problem is that Amare and Melo are going to make 20 million each. When Paul is easily as good as they are and he's going to make what? Half that was a free agent. If the other two weren't so greedy this would have been simpler. Just for emphasis, Wade, Bron and Bosh all make significantly less than the aforementioned first two.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Excuse of the new CBA he'll feel better.


----------



## ChosenFEW

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



dre said:


> B-b-b-b-but it's all about the money!!!


much to learn, you have...

if thats the case why even leak that information and lets just stop talking about cp3 altogether. he's the knicks to be had anyway, right? WRONG!... 


you should know why these stories leak by now and I shouldn't have to explain it. 

if melo wanted the knicks like hes said numerous times after he finally signed the deal, why did he gut the team in order to get him? Especially when he admitted that it was going to take time to gel and build a championship contender. You know the answers to these questions.


Now youre bringing up the heat situation with them taking less in NBA contracts to win. Well why do they want to win? its not about the money right? Lebron is the sole reason that happened. He is the exception. In fact I think chris bosh gets paid more than lebron. without lebron doing what he did we wouldn't be talking about carmelo possibly taking less (which he did not) to join the knicks, or cp3.



> James is confident he will make extra money off the base contract by selling more shoes because of his new royalty agreement. And he will sell more shoes by winning championships.
> The common assumption is James would sell more playing for the Knicks. Nevertheless, marketing experts have advised James he will sell more merchandise, especially abroad, by capturing rings. Kobe Bryant sells more shoes in China than James, likely because of his four NBA titles.
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/lebron_shoe_me_the_money_g85KrLo8XNhCFeFlxnGZnxOTg


.......


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Dude...what the **** are you talking about...none of that really countered any of what I asked

I'm done until it happens. I already learned from the Carmelo thread not to go back and forth with people who don't see a train coming at them for the lights near the train track


----------



## ChosenFEW

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

you know the answers to your own points is basically the gist of what i was getting at. I didn't want to waste time on that but rather on the fact that at the end of the day it is all about money.


I guess you can hear but not listen.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

This is just going to be Melodrama 2.0. First reporters write that sources say Chris plans on going to the Knicks in free agency. Then, reports write article saying that Chris going to the Knicks is a pipe dream that they don't have the money to make it happen or the assets to trade from him. After that reporters write that sources say Chris might consider team A,B,C,D if he can't get to the Knicks. Then in the end he gets traded to the Knicks after the All Star break.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I will say though the Hornets will probably not trade him as the Ownership situation is fluid..they don't want to rock that boat with no owner


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I would not be surprised if he stays for the season but I could see CAA pressing the issue hard at the All Star break.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> This is probably the biggest slam dunk I've seen of any superstars situation ever. I would be more than shocked if Paul is not a Knick this time next year. And yes this is gonna be bumped either way


Oh boy, I remember the last time you vowed to bump a thread "either way."


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

so are we supposed to believe Paul when he publicly states that "_right now_ his heart is in New Orleans" (note the 'right now', hmmm...) or distrust the typically 'mendoza line' reporting of Chris Brousard with his 'anonymous source'?

I'm left ambivalent on this one


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Chris Paul is not interested in signing an extension with the Celtics, according to a source close to the situation.

Boston has been mentioned as a team that is angling to execute a trade for Paul.

Chris Broussard has reported on Monday that Paul's preference is to end up with the Knicks and that he would also consider the Clippers.

Via Chris Broussard/ESPN (via Twitter)


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



NOFX22 said:


> Chris Paul is not interested in signing an extension with the Celtics, according to a source close to the situation.
> 
> Boston has been mentioned as a team that is angling to execute a trade for Paul.
> 
> Chris Broussard has reported on Monday that Paul's preference is to end up with the Knicks and that he would also consider the Clippers.
> 
> Via Chris Broussard/ESPN (via Twitter)


I'm not surprised, unless the Celtics can acquire a second elite player in Paul's age range, he'd be looking one, maybe two years of contention, max, and then being the centerpiece of a rebuilding project. OKC, LAC, and the Knicks are easily the most logical landing spots for him, but Oklahoma doesn't seem interested in swapping out Westbrook. I can't fault him on his choices.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Jamel Irief said:


> Oh boy, I remember the last time you vowed to bump a thread "either way."


I'm sure it's like that when you have a file cabinet in your skull

Go ahead and bump it so I can be paralyzed in embarassment


----------



## goodfoot

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I think Paul for Westbrook could make the Thunder favorites to win the title, but I think Paul wants to go to a big city.


----------



## ChosenFEW

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

^if paul wants to win that would be the ideal place and situation for him.

OKC is stupid for not proposing this deal.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Stephen A Smith on 1050 ESPN NY: 70% chance Chris Paul is a Knick by February.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

lol @ these numbers. What is this percentage relative to, what is it based on

I'm gonna say 46.56% though


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

He was asked how likely it is from 1 to 10 that Chris Paul will be a Knick and he said 7 out of 10 before Feb.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

See, it's hard to say if Paul is traded. If the league still owns the team in February then he's not getting traded period. People need to understand that it's not the "league" that owns the team per say, it's the other 29 owners who own 1/29 of it. Does anyone see the Hornets selling before the deadline? I'm not sure.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Who would buy with that hanging over the situation


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I hope for Chris' sake that he gets moved. He would be an ideal fit in New York, perfect compliment to Melo/Amare. 

Chris Paul is one of my favorite players, and I believe he's in the discussion for best player in the league if he's 100% healthy, so it would be great to see him go to a real contender.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> See, it's hard to say if Paul is traded. If the league still owns the team in February then he's not getting traded period. People need to understand that it's not the "league" that owns the team per say, it's the other 29 owners who own 1/29 of it. Does anyone see the Hornets selling before the deadline? I'm not sure.


It depends entirely on Stern. He clearly doesn't want to contract the team. The other owners could commit $10 million each and they could contract them. The NBA could even take the $10 million from future revenue they would pay owners and it could be done without conflict because the NBA owns the Hornets. The team could basically disappear by moving a few payments around in a ledger and the increased revenue to each team due to the Hornets' absence could wash it out.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> Who would buy with that hanging over the situation


Well, there are at least five different potential buyers for the Hornets. They usually do it through Proskauer Rose (Philly law firm). I know one of the principals of one potential ownership group, but he said the NBA wasn't going to sell the team until the CBA was done. That doesn't mean they get sold before June though, which means Paul might not be traded just to keep the team profitable (or at least keep attendance up for another year).



Adam said:


> It depends entirely on Stern. He clearly doesn't want to contract the team. The other owners could commit $10 million each and they could contract them. The NBA could even take the $10 million from future revenue they would pay owners and it could be done without conflict because the NBA owns the Hornets. The team could basically disappear by moving a few payments around in a ledger and the increased revenue to each team due to the Hornets' absence could wash it out.


To my knowledge the NBA can't contract a team just like that (there are some CBA issues as well). I don't believe the NBA has contracted a team since the 1950's. I think if they didn't have an actual potential buyer (i.e. Larry Ellison, Ron Burkle, Arte Moreno), then things could be different. However, all three of those guys I have mentioned have offered to buy teams. Moreno tried to buy the Kings and move them to Anaheim, Ellison wanted to buy the Hornets and move them to San Jose and Burkle wanted to buy the Kings and keep them in Sacramento.

At some point the league is going to sell the team because some of those owners are going to want their money back.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

So you think they'd be moved? 

But I've been saying the whole time what you said, the NBA Owners or whatever controls the Hornets for now don't want to drop the value of the sale by letting Paul go.

But then you counter that with what Ehmunro has been saying, that they have to get _something_ back for their best asset...you don't want a new Owner buying a blank slate right? Paul technically could still be a Hornet in June but you already know he's gone, so in effect you'd be losing him for nothing but a trade exception at the end of the day


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> So you think they'd be moved?
> 
> But I've been saying the whole time what you said, the NBA Owners or whatever controls the Hornets for now don't want to drop the value of the sale by letting Paul go.
> 
> But then you counter that with what Ehmunro has been saying, that they have to get _something_ back for their best asset...you don't want a new Owner buying a blank slate right? Paul technically could still be a Hornet in June but you already know he's gone, so in effect you'd be losing him for nothing but a trade exception at the end of the day


Here's the thing, the Hornets are going to be a blank slate anyway. If you can only trade Paul to the Knicks (if that's where he wants to go), you might as well hold onto him because no one else is going to give up a lot for a guy who is about to bounce. Also, if they wanted to get a lot, they would have trade Paul right now before the season even began. Once we get into the season, the odds of him being traded drop IMO. 

And as far as the team being moved, it depends on which ownership group emerges. There are people who want to bring the team to Louisville, San Jose, Vancouver, Newark (where the Nets are playing right now) and Anaheim. The local owner didn't buy the team so who knows what happens now.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> Here's the thing, the Hornets are going to be a blank slate anyway. If you can only trade Paul to the Knicks (if that's where he wants to go), you might as well hold onto him because no one else is going to give up a lot for a guy who is about to bounce.


I feel like if they asked the Thunder for Westbrook or the Celtics for Rondo they'd at least have someone credible to put on a billboard


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

They don't want Rondo though. He's a complimentary player, not a franchise player. Rondo on the Hornets does what exactly? Westbrook would be better for them for sure, but the problem is does Paul have any interest in playing in OKC. Or is it about the Knicks?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Yeah true. I've been saying that actually so now I'm contradicting myself


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



> A scenario similar to the speculation that swirled after LeBron James and Carmelo Anthony plotted their exit strategies to play for their desired teams appears to playing out for Hornets point guard Chris Paul.
> 
> Rumors are kicking up again about Paul’s desire to play for the New York Knicks. And interest is peaking among teams willing to make a deal to acquire Paul in a trade.
> 
> The Hornets still aim to sign Paul to a long-term extension but have had trade discussions with several teams, including the Los Angeles Clippers, Boston Celtics and New York Knicks, sources said.
> 
> But Paul has stayed out of the fray, at least publicly.
> 
> “I try not to pay attention to all of that different type of stuff,” Paul told reporters Tuesday in New York during a charity event. “My heart is in New Orleans.”
> 
> Though he can opt out of his current deal after this season, leaving New Orleans won’t be as easy for Paul as it was for James to leave Cleveland for Miami or for Anthony to bolt midseason from Denver for the bright lights of New York.
> 
> League owners won their fight for competitive balance during the 149-day lockout, and Paul is the first elite player likely to feel its impact.
> 
> The new labor deal makes it harder for elite players to join forces to create superteams like the Miami Heat’s trio of Chris Bosh, Dwyane Wade and James, who lost to the Dallas Mavericks in last season’s Finals.
> 
> With new rules in place, Paul can’t gain the same big-money contract options that his buddies, James and Anthony, received last season. As a result of the new collective bargaining agreement, star players must accept less money and shorter contracts if they want to change teams.
> 
> If Paul goes the route of Anthony and forces an extend-and-trade deal, he would be permitted to sign only a one-year extension as opposed to the three-year, $65 million extension Anthony received.
> 
> Even if Paul decides to opt out of his contract with the Hornets after this season and explore free agency this summer, he would stand to lose up to $26 million if he turned down the Hornets’ maximum five-year, $100 million offer. The most Paul could earn from another team is a four-year, $74 million contract.
> 
> Fearing they would lose James without getting compensation, the Cavaliers agreed to a sign-and-trade last summer with the Heat, which paved the way for James’ six-year, $110 million contract. Under the new agreement, that is no longer possible.
> 
> If Paul intends to fulfill his playful toast at Anthony’s wedding last summer promising to create his own Big Three in New York involving him, Anthony and Amare Stoudemire, he would have to take a pay cut.
> 
> If Paul opts out and goes to the Knicks, instead of earning the $17.7 million left on his deal for the final year, he would earn $4 million less in his first year in New York than if he remains in New Orleans.
> 
> Paul could sign a two-year extension to remain with the Hornets, but he would not be able to force a trade. Under the new agreement, which is expected to be ratified soon, the Hornets would be prohibited from trading him for six months. If the Hornets traded Paul before agreeing to an extension, he would have to wait six months to sign one with his new team.
> 
> Hornets officials said General Manager Dell Demps was unavailable for comment Wednesday, the first day the league permitted teams to speak to the news media since the lockout ended.
> 
> Hornets players can begin using the Alario Center today, and Paul is expected to participate in workouts. With free agency and training camp starting Dec. 9, the Hornets have only four other players under contract: guard Jarrett Jack, forwards Trevor Ariza and Quincy Pondexter, and center Emeka Okafor.


http://www.nola.com/hornets/index.ssf/2011/11/new_orleans_hornets_want_to_ke.html


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Chris Paul has supposedly said that he'd sign an extension with the Clippers, as well. I'd imagine what's happening right now is that the Clippers are doing their best to get either Westbrook from OKC or Eric Gordon and Minny's 2012 #1, with the Thunder saying they'd rather hold onto Westbrook(for now) and LAC telling the Hornets that they can have one or the other, but not both. Sending him to the Knicks at the deadline has to be the doomsday scenario, as the best offer New York can put together is Billups, Fields, and Toney Douglas(they have no first round picks to trade until 2018, I believe).


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Chris Paul has not said he would sign an extension with the Clippers just that he would consider it.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Knicks4life said:


> Chris Paul has not said he would sign an extension with the Clippers just that he would consider it.


That's really splitting hairs, isn't it? He's indicated that he's open to playing for the Clippers, and if his options are to sign a max extension and go to LA or go to the Knicks in free agency, for a significantly reduced amount, it appears he'd sign the extension. The Knicks are tapped out when it comes to trade assets, in order to land Paul they're banking on either him just outright signing in free agency for a reduced amount or New Orleans making a highly illogical trade.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Its not him saying he would consider it, its people/source saying that he would possible consider it.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

If the Hornets trade him somewhere where he has a chance to win and make 90 million$ that is going to top what the Knicks have to offer. If I were the Clippers or OKC I would assume that I could extend him so long as I kept enough talent for him to be able to compete for titles.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

If he gets traded he is not getting $90 million because of the new extend and trade rule.


----------



## S.jR.

*CP3 request trade to Knicks..*

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-chris_paul_hornets_knicks_nba_trade_120111


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

ESPN NBA - Yahoo! Sports: Chris Paul's agent informed Hornets officials the PG wants to be traded to Knicks


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Hey now...that's what I like no vague himming and hawwing


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> ESPN NBA - Yahoo! Sports: Chris Paul's agent informed Hornets officials the PG wants to be traded to Knicks


----------



## Mrs. Thang

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I like how we missed the summer and two months of basketball for a new CBA that was supposed to fix this knid of BS and it took all of one week for it to pop back up.

Anyway, what exactly are the Knicks supposed to trade? They have like five players under contract.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

today's news:

Both Paul and DHo would like to play in New York.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

today's news:

Both Paul and DHo would like to play in New York.

pg: Paul
sg: Billups
C: D Ho
PF: Amare
SF: Melo


----------



## Luke

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I'd laugh my balls off if they traded 'Melo for Paul.

That being said I don't really hate the idea of Paul to the Knicks. It takes CP3 out of the west so I don't have to watch him torch my Lakers nearly as often, and at worst gives another team a shot at knocking off the Heat for a few years.

Dwight should come to the Lakers. That'd be really nice.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

See the thing is, even if they trade him, he loses his bird rights, so the extension he signs with the Knicks will not be as high as it would have been with the Hornets. As long as he's cool with making 40 million less, then it's a good idea for him. If I were the Hornets I would not trade him. Just like if I were Orlando I would not trade Howard (or New Jersey with Deron). I would let them walk.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> See the thing is, even if they trade him, he loses his bird rights, so the extension he signs with the Knicks will not be as high as it would have been with the Hornets. As long as he's cool with making 40 million less, then it's a good idea for him. If I were the Hornets I would not trade him. Just like if I were Orlando I would not trade Howard (or New Jersey with Deron). I would let them walk.


It's different with Howard, because he's not trying to force himself to a team with nothing to offer in return(or so it appears, up to this point). If he's willing to sign an extension with the Clippers to play with Blake there's actually a pretty reasonable package that the Magic can get in return, so they would be dumb not to make that happen(same goes for OKC if they make Westbrook available). However, if Paul pulls a "I'll only sign an extension with NY" routine a la Carmelo, then New Orleans might as well just dare him to leave the money on the table, because the best return they could get is Billups' contract(which will be bought out) and some combo of Fields, Douglas, and Shumpert, which does exactly nothing for a team starting from scratch.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Heard Rondo is going to Indy for Hibbert and Collison and then Indy will sign Greg Oden.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Jamel Irief said:


> Heard Rondo is going to Indy for Hibbert and Collison and then Indy will sign Greg Oden.


Heard that on a message board heard that or heard that from someone with knowledge heard that?


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Bogg said:


> Heard that on a message board heard that or heard that from someone with knowledge heard that?


Someone with knowledge on the pacer side. They want rondo.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

PG - Rondo
SG - George
SF - Granger
PF - Hansborough
C - Oden

PG - Collison
SG - Allen
SF - Pierce
PF - Garnett
C - Hibbert

Dunno if it really helps the Celtics that much. I guess they sure up that Center position after trading away Perkins, but at the expense of Rondo?


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The pacers are defiantly the aggressors, don't get me wrong.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Lol there would be open revolt in Boston if that deal went down. A lot of them think the Celtics can still win, and they think Rondo is god.

Hibbert's not bad though.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Also, why are the Pacers going so hard after Greg Oden? Dude has barely played in 4 years, and at the price he would likely command, surely there are better options out there?

Unless they have supreme faith in their medical staff.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The Pacers would be quite stupid to do that deal. I want Oden to succeed but the guy can't stay healthy. Man,Bird can't be serious with that one.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

*Chris Paul's reported trade request to New York Knicks unfounded, sources say *


> With rumors swirling again about his desire to play for the New York Knicks, Chris Paul appears to be bracing for a season unlike any of his other six seasons with the New Orleans Hornets. On the same day Paul participated in his first volunteer workout at the Alario Center since the 149-day lockout ended, a report came out in Yahoo! Sports on Thursday saying his agent told the Hornets the All-Star point guard would not sign a contract extension and wants to be traded to the Knicks.
> 
> But two league sources confirmed after the story broke that Paul’s agent, Leon Rose, never made the request to the Hornets.
> 
> “It is just rumors; you can’t control it,’’ Paul said. “It’s always going to happen, and it’s part of the game. I’m just happy to be back with my team.’’
> 
> Whether the Hornets trade Paul or he opts out after this season remains unknown. Paul has yet to disclose his plans, and Hornets General Manager Dell Demps was not available the past two days to address the situation.
> 
> But sources indicate the Hornets still aim to sign Paul to a long-term extension. However, the Hornets have listened to several trade offers from teams interested in acquiring Paul.
> 
> Publicly, though, Paul appears as if he expects to remain with the Hornets. Earlier this week at a charity event in New York, Paul said his heart remains in New Orleans.
> 
> “Right now, we only have five people on the roster,’’ Paul said. “I think our most important thing right now is trying to figure out what guys like D. West are doing, too. He’s like a brother to me. I’ve never played a season without him, so (I’m) trying to communicate with him as much as possible.’’
> 
> Paul said Thursday he’s had conversations with Hornets forward Trevor Ariza on how they can get their team better, and that’s important right now.
> 
> Yet, if Paul indicates he is not interested in a long-term deal to remain in New Orleans, Demps is likely to pursue the best trade offer available that would give the team maximum value in return to keep the franchise from having to rebuild as Cleveland was forced to do when LeBron James left in free agency to join the Miami Heat. The Cavaliers finished 19-63 last season under former Hornets coach Byron Scott.
> 
> Desiring talent to make another playoff run, it does not appear beneficial for the Hornets to trade Paul to the Knicks. The Knicks gave away most of their assets to obtain Carmelo Anthony in an extend-and-trade deal last season.
> 
> The Knicks are not likely to part ways with forward Amare Stoudemire or Anthony. After those two, the Knicks’ next best player is 35-year-old point guard Chauncey Billups, who likely doesn’t fit in the long-term plans Demps and Coach Monty Williams would have if Paul is no longer around.
> 
> If Paul opts out at the end of the season and goes to the Knicks, he would earn $4 million less than the $17.7 million left on his deal for the final year with New Orleans.
> 
> Paul has made frequent trips to New York the past several months because he was a member of the players association’s executive committee that took part in labor negotiations with the league.
> 
> “I’ve been back and forth to New York 18 times this summer, and I was engulfed in all that,’’ Paul said. “I just now had time to actually see my family and actually take a deep breath and realize I’m finally getting a chance to play basketball.’’
> 
> The Paul-to-the-Knicks speculation has been swirling since he suggested at a toast during Anthony’s wedding in 2010 that he and his close friend should team with Stoudemire to formulate a Big Apple trio that’s similar to the Miami Heat’s trio of James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh, who made it to last season’s NBA Finals but lost to the Dallas Mavericks.
> 
> Since the first day he joined the Hornets in 2005, Paul has aimed to win. He has suggested in the past that he wants to win now instead of having to wait.
> 
> Paul has leverage to scare off some teams the Hornets could pursue trading him to because of the threat of not signing an extension. If he’s traded to a team and decides not to sign an extension, that franchise would have him for this season before he could opt out.
> 
> There was an ESPN report Wednesday saying Paul would not sign an extension with the Celtics if he was traded to Boston.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The NBA is back, ladies and gentlemen.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I feel bad for the Pacers...they spent a lot of time rebuilding and now trying to build a contender but they're just not going to be able to do it because noone wants to go there.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> I feel bad for the Pacers...they spent a lot of time rebuilding and now trying to build a contender but they're just not going to be able to do it because noone wants to go there.


See, I don't really agree that they've spent all this time rebuilding just because they haven't been good since Artest was there. Their biggest problem was that they tried to reload a few times instead of doing a tear-down rebuild. This is the first year they've been free of contracts from either the Artest years or the resulting players they traded for in an attempt to avoid rebuilding(Dunleavy and Murphy). I don't hate the idea of Indy trading for Rondo, as he's locked into a long-term deal, is from Kentucky so he'd be close to home, and plays an entertaining style of basketball. What I do hate is the idea of throwing money at Greg Oden, because it's a sunk cost almost immediately.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Wasnt one of the main reasons for this past lock out was to prevent such player demands from happening? (Melo rule)

Didnt seem like its working. Not even a week after the lockout ends and already rumors going around about Paul. 

Its f'in crazy


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The owners back off the Melo Rule and went with the new extend and trade rule that allow traded player to only sign a 2-year max extension with a 4.5% annual increase. This new rule still helps big market teams like the Knicks, Mavs, and Celtics because it guarantees that Dwight Howard, Deron Williams, and Chris Paul won't sign an extension with anyone but their original team and will probably be free agents if traded.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



OneBadLT123 said:


> Wasnt one of the main reasons for this past lock out was to prevent such player demands from happening? (Melo rule)
> 
> Didnt seem like its working. Not even a week after the lockout ends and already rumors going around about Paul.
> 
> Its f'in crazy


They tried to bank on players wanting money more than a great situation. 

But when you're a competitive player like Paul, he'd probably rather 70 million and being very happy being in a great situation than 100 million and being in an awful situation. 

Money really isn't the end all, be all, and we're not talking about a guy who'll struggle to make big money. 

Not to mention, being in NY will add at least 10 million to Paul's yearly income. 

Now it'll affect the really young players who are hitting free agency for the first time. They'll be the ones more reluctant to leave big money on the table. 

I wouldn't be surprised if Paul was shown projected income from outside basketball if he played in a major market. 30 million in the tri state area, millions more worldwide.... And they WILL jump back on the bandwagon if the Knicks become title contenders, which they'll be with those three and a new coach.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I told y'all during the lockout you're not going to stop someone from going where he wants to go. It's a player's league and that's that


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

While Chris Paul's first choice may be the Knicks, sources say he is also open to being traded to the Magic and Clippers.

Paul can opt out of his contract after the coming season to become a free agent and the Hornets are considering trading him to help in their rebuilding process.

Via Jarrod Rudolph/RealGM


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I still don't see how Paul will get the Hornets to trade him for Billups and Landry Fields... what else do the Knicks have? They had chips to trade Melo for so it's not the same situation.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

It is probably better for the Hornets to get nothing for Paul than it would be to trade him for what the Knicks have to offer. If I was a real contender I might give up more than that for a one year rental and then just pray I could extend him.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Trading him to the Clippers seems like a good option - Gordon, Bledsoe, Minnesota's 1st, Kaman for Paul and Okafor is what they should ask for.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Tragedy said:


> They tried to bank on players wanting money more than a great situation.
> 
> But when you're a competitive player like Paul, he'd probably rather 70 million and being very happy being in a great situation than 100 million and being in an awful situation.
> 
> Money really isn't the end all, be all, and we're not talking about a guy who'll struggle to make big money.
> 
> Not to mention, being in NY will add at least 10 million to Paul's yearly income.
> 
> Now it'll affect the really young players who are hitting free agency for the first time. They'll be the ones more reluctant to leave big money on the table.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if Paul was shown projected income from outside basketball if he played in a major market. 30 million in the tri state area, millions more worldwide.... And they WILL jump back on the bandwagon if the Knicks become title contenders, which they'll be with those three and a new coach.


This might be true, but then again Amare is in New York and I don't see him in any national commercials, but I do see Dwight Howard in them. People throw these endorsement numbers out there like it's monopoly money but since when has Paul been doing national commercials?


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Didn't Paul do deodorant commercials?


----------



## Diable

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I think Paul does about 10 million a year in endorsements. He's got a big deal with the Jordan brand (whatever it is called), his own shoe and some National campaigns for stuff like PowerAde and one of the deodorant companies. He would get a bigger bump from winning than he would get from playing in NYC. The one year the Hornets had talent around him he picked up all sorts of deals, and NOLA is the antithesis of New York in local endorsements. Playing in NY would not help him nearly so much as playing on ABC, TNT and ESPN. 

The effect of playing in NY is being overstated when you are talking about a legit superstar. It would help fake superstars like Melo and Amare vastly more than someone who can actually play at a really high level.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I don't care who has the 'best' deal. Unless I'm getting a *really* good deal, I'm not sure if I would trade my stars at all if I were Orlando or New Orleans.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Diable said:


> The effect of playing in NY is being overstated when you are talking about a legit superstar. It would help fake superstars like Melo and Amare vastly more than someone who can actually play at a really high level.


Honestly, and this is going to be an unpopular statement with some people, I don't know that Paul is that much better than Melo or Amare that you can call him a legit superstar and call those two fake superstars.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The point is, in NY there's a higher profile. Winning titles will give him a bump, no doubt, so will playing for a high profile team. 

Only the megastars can do well anywhere. The Kobes, Lebrons, and Wades. 

Look at what playing for a high profile team did for Chris Bosh. He got way more attention. 

Look what playing in LA and winning a title did for Lamar Odom. 

Playi in NY will raise his profile, and winning a title in NY will blow up Paul much bigger than playi and winning in NO. 

It's a fact. I don't know why people choose to deny it.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Miami isn't a high profile team.

If it had just been Bosh and Wade, no one would really give a ****.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Tragedy said:


> Look what playing in LA and winning a title did for Lamar Odom.


playing in LA did squat for Lamar (for 6 years), marrying a Kardashian did wonders though (and Kris Humphries played last season in Newark so dont tell me living in LA had anything to do with that)


----------



## PauloCatarino

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Game3525 said:


> Miami isn't a high profile team.
> 
> If it had just been Bosh and Wade, no one would really give a ****.


That is correct.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



> Another thing also becomes clear when you dial the 504. The Hornets are going into this with eyes wide open. They know that Paul spent much of the summer in New York at lockout meetings -- and also with Knicks star Carmelo Anthony. They know that even if he can't get as big a salary from the Knicks as with other teams, it's likely his representatives have all manner of endorsements at the ready in New York that would make up the difference. They believe he'd prefer going to a team where he doesn't have to be "the man," and that the Knicks would be just that, with Anthony and All-Star Amar'e Stoudemire willing and able to take the spotlight and the heat that come with it.


http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/david_aldridge/12/05/morning-tip-chris-paul-future/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The belief that the Hornets will trade Chris Paul before the start of the 11-12 season if he hasn't agreed to an extension is growing, according to sources.

Paul met with GM Dell Demps on Monday and the tone was amicable.

But Paul did not tell Demps that he intends to sign an extension before the beginning of the regular season.

Sources say the Hornets want to avoid a situation similar to what occurred last season with the Nuggets and Carmelo Anthony.

The Clippers, Warriors, Rockets and Hawks have shown the most interest in trading for Paul.

The Clippers and Warriors, sources say, are the Hornets' preferred trade partners, but both teams are hesitant to pursue Paul without a commitment from him to stay with the franchise in the long-term.

Eric Gordon would not be included in any trade scenario for Paul because the Clippers haven't been given any*assurances*that he would re-sign with the team.

Via Chris Broussard, Marc Stein/ESPN


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

He would resign in LA. Not a perfect situation but he would


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



> There is also a small handful of teams that has informed the Hornets they are prepared to trade for Paul with no assurance that they can keep him beyond this season. That list, sources say, includes the Rockets, Boston Celtics and defending champion Dallas Mavericks.
> 
> Each of those teams would be gambling that Paul would be won over by his new surroundings and either elect to play out the final season of his current contract (valued at $17.8 million in 2012-13) or opt out of his contract on July 1, 2012, and sign a new deal. Paul's 2011-12 salary is listed at $16.4 million.
> 
> Boston would appear to have the most to offer in such a scenario if the Celtics are willing to include point guard Rajon Rondo, but sources say that the Hornets are convinced that they can receive more from any of the so-called gambling teams than from the Knicks, who are widely regarded as Paul's No. 1 preferred destination.


This is going faster than I thought it would we are already at the part of the story where list of teams willing to rent Chis comes out.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Ainge already gambled and probably shut the door on the run with the Perkins deal, he might as well put his hat in this play too. And I'd try the same thing with Orlando


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Is he willing to gamble again though the last one blew up in his face and if this potential gamble that involve him giving up his only asset in the post big 3 rebuilding stage does the same there is no way he keeps his job.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> Ainge already gambled and probably shut the door on the run with the Perkins deal, he might as well put his hat in this play too.


And from a basketball perspective, if Paul does end up signing elsewhere, oh well. This is without a doubt our last year contending (if that) with Garnett, Pierce, and Ray. Rondo's only good if he's on a good team, his contract will be dead weight once we're in rebuilding mode. His stock will probably fall too. We start anew. Maybe deal Pierce the following season to some team who needs a wing for the stretch run.

If Paul does sign here long term, excellent. We have a star in our hands, meaning the worst of the rebuilding is already over, and would have much better means of putting players around him than the Hornets did.

I definitely take the plunge. It would be a ballsy call though, considering how much of Boston feels around Rondo and how pissed they would be if we ended up with nothing. Not that it means a whole lot, but Red would make this trade.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Knicks4life said:


> Is he willing to gamble again though the last one blew up in his face and if this potential gamble that involve him giving up his only asset in the post big 3 rebuilding stage does the same there is no way he keeps his job.


People will be calling for his head anyway when the team ends up getting bounced in the first round, which will happen if he does nothing.


----------



## Tragedy

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Game3525 said:


> Miami isn't a high profile team.
> 
> If it had just been Bosh and Wade, no one would really give a ****.


You didn't disagree with me. I wasn't calling Miami a high profile team because it's Miami, but because who's there and the fact they're contenders. 

NY is a high profile team, because they're winning now.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Broussard saying Lakers are in trying to trade for both Howard and Paul on Sportcenter.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

It's entirely unlikely but if you can dupe Smith into just Gasol or Odom then maybe.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The Lakers don't have to the necessary combination of leverage and assets, the best asset the Lakers have is Andrew Bynum because he is a talented people who if he stays health is young enough to build around. The Lakers only have two tradable assets other than Bynum with Gasol and Odom, Odom is attractive to a rebuliding team as an expiring contract but Gasol is not he is to old to rebuild around. Another thing the Lakers have no cap flexibility so they don't have the leverage to get both Chis Paul and Dwight Howard because they don't have the ability to threaten to sign them in free agency so either the Magic or the Hornets can demand both Gasol and Bynum.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> Ainge already gambled and probably shut the door on the run with the Perkins deal, he might as well put his hat in this play too. And I'd try the same thing with Orlando





Knicks4life said:


> Is he willing to gamble again though the last one blew up in his face and if this potential gamble that involve him giving up his only asset in the post big 3 rebuilding stage does the same there is no way he keeps his job.


Actually, it didn't blow up in his face. Boston had a center they were about to lose, who was injured at the time, and they made the rational decision to let someone else overpay him. If they gave in to his contract demands their run would not only be over, they'd be unable to reload as their payroll would be tied up in Pierce, Rondo, and Perkins.

And I don't think you can build a team around Rondo due to his offensive limitations. Valuable in the right situation (the Clippers, for example, would look really good with Rondo feeding the G-Men), but also a huge liability in others. So I see the gamble on Paul as making a lot of sense from Boston's perspective.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



E.H. Munro said:


> Actually, it didn't blow up in his face. Boston had a center they were about to lose, who was injured at the time, and they made the rational decision to let someone else overpay him. If they gave in to his contract demands their run would not only be over, they'd be unable to reload as their payroll would be tied up in Pierce, Rondo, and Perkins.


Here's the thing that always bothered me about that line of thought: Ainge turned around and traded for another guy in the last year of his contract who's about to be overpaid(and, for what it's worth, $8 mil per for a solid center who defends and protects the rim is good value). I suppose Green is a little safer in the sense that Perkins was about to be unrestricted and Green is a restricted free agent, but tying up cap space in Jeff Green is more unwise than tying it up in Perkins, and Perkins has to have more trade value than Jeff Green, assuming his knee heals properly, which it appears to be doing.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Do you see Green with any such offer on the table? Not only do I doubt that he gets one, I don't even see why a team looking for help at the 3/4 would waste their time on Green with a glut on the market. I think the most likely scenario with Green is that he's either the salary matching portion of the sign & trade (with Rondo) or that he takes the QO and comes back for another year.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



E.H. Munro said:


> Do you see Green with any such offer on the table? Not only do I doubt that he gets one, I don't even see why a team looking for help at the 3/4 would waste their time on Green with a glut on the market. I think the most likely scenario with Green is that he's either the salary matching portion of the sign & trade (with Rondo) or that he takes the QO and comes back for another year.


He's highly unlikely to get Perkins money, but I expect somebody will throw something at him, as there's a bunch of money out there and simply not much talent. I'm not saying it's logical, just that with NBA GMs it might happen.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Given the available options I just can't see anyone doing anything aside from rolling over their cap room for next summer.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

We'll see. I openly admit that's the logical course of action. However, I fully expect some comically illogical deals handed out.

EDIT:

I still like Rondo, Jeff Green(on a front-loaded deal), and the Clips 2012 #1 for Mo Williams, Chris Kaman, Ryan Gomes, and Minny's 2012 #1, or some variation of it, for both teams.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The Hornets are collecting bids for Chris Paul from several teams and are expected to make a decision by Friday, according to sources.

Offers coming from the Warriors and Clippers are believed to be the most enticing to New Orleans' GM Dell Demps.

The Clippers would have to include restricted free agent DeAndre Jordan, Al-Farouq Aminu, Eric Bledsoe and the 2012 first round pick from the Wolves to acquire Paul.

Paul would reportedly prefer the Clippers over the Warriors because of the chance of being paired with Blake Griffin and Eric Gordon.

Golden State is offering Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson and Ekpe Udoh to the Hornets.*

Via Adrian Wojnarowski/Yahoo! Sports


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Does a lineup of :

Paul
Gordon
Butler
Griffin
Kaman

Make the Clips contenders?


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Absolutely! They would be contending titles for the next ten years! And what's crazy the Clippers would still have max cap next season with Kaman and Williams expiring! Ummm D Howard???!!!


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The West is ripe for the taking, especially if Tyson doesn't come back to Dallas. I'd be a little worried about the interior defense if they didn't bring Jordan back too, but I mean I don't see why that team couldn't give OKC, Dallas, LA and Memphis some go.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

^ Yeah that'd be pretty nuts. They'd probably lose Gordon though with a squeezed salary cap...but who cares when you have Paul, Griffin and Howard right?


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Ummm isn't 45 to 50 million way too much for DeAndre Jordan?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Not saying it's not but someone's going to pay it. When it comes to contention you got to pay to play

If they can get a contingency plan then fine, but Jordan is still young and on the upswing. And I have to think Paul would work wonders for him


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

10 million a year though? Well I guess not if he's an elite rebounder.


----------



## gi0rdun

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Paul to the Warriors would be absolutely nuts, especially if they can get Tyson Chandler on board. Warriors would be running a line up of

Chris Paul
Monta Ellis
Dorell Wright
David Lee
Tyson Chandler

And our 9 man rotation would be something along the lines of

Jeremy Lin
Jason Richardson
Lou Amundson
Another free agent/amnestied veteran. Even someone like Marquis Daniels would be decent.

Only other team that would be a problem is the Thunder. We're taking away Chandler from the Mavs, Chris Paul and Monta would absolutely tear up the Lakers, you can start writing the Spurs off, Grizzlies may not keep Marc Gasol.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Jamel Irief said:


> Ummm isn't 45 to 50 million way too much for DeAndre Jordan?


5 year 40 million, which 8 mill a year...not bad for a guy that gives u tyson Chandler presence and numbers


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



gi0rdun said:


> Paul to the Warriors would be absolutely nuts, especially if they can get Tyson Chandler on board. Warriors would be running a line up of
> 
> Chris Paul
> Monta Ellis
> Dorell Wright
> David Lee
> Tyson Chandler
> 
> And our 9 man rotation would be something along the lines of
> 
> Jeremy Lin
> Jason Richardson
> Lou Amundson
> Another free agent/amnestied veteran. Even someone like Marquis Daniels would be decent.
> 
> Only other team that would be a problem is the Thunder. We're taking away Chandler from the Mavs, Chris Paul and Monta would absolutely tear up the Lakers, you can start writing the Spurs off, Grizzlies may not keep Marc Gasol.


That lineup still won't go anywhere. Warriors offer is awful too in comparison to the others.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

More importantly Paul isn't going to Oakland


----------



## ChosenFEW

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

see what the chris paul requests trade to knicks fiasco brings about?!


now you have the lakers saying anyone is tradeable on their roster. Other teams will follow suit with crazy trade proposals soon enough


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



ChosenFEW said:


> see what the chris paul requests trade to knicks fiasco brings about?!
> 
> 
> now you have the lakers saying anyone is tradeable on their roster. Other teams will follow suit with crazy trade proposals soon enough


This was going to happen any way it was inevitable the only attract piece the Lakers have to offer a team in a rebuilding process Andrew Bynum but their front office value size to much to trade a center for a guard. Don't believe this Warrior offer center around Stephen Curry Jerry West is not going to trade Curry for a rental this is just the Hornets trying to get the Clippers to throw in Gordon. The Tyson Chandler thing about him helping a team resign Paul after they trade for him is the just the same crap CAA did to try and get Rip Hamilton out of Detroit it is just an agent trying to get his client more and better offers.


----------



## ChosenFEW

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Knicks4life said:


> This was going to happen any way it was inevitable


obviously.... those rumors just speed things up. its like the snowball rolling down the snow mountain. Thats the whole point of leaking stories. In reality the knicks do not have the assets and this was to get the other teams to start getting on the ball.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



ChosenFEW said:


> obviously.... those rumors just speed things up. its like the snowball rolling down the snow mountain. Thats the whole point of leaking stories. In reality the knicks do not have the assets and this was to get the other teams to start getting on the ball.


There are only two team that well make a legit offer without a guarantee the Celtics and the Clippers, Chris has all the leverage in this situation if he wants to be a Knick he is going to be a Knick.


----------



## ChosenFEW

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Knicks4life said:


> There are only two team that well make a legit offer without a guarantee the Celtics and the Clippers, Chris has all the leverage in this situation *if he wants to be a Knick he is going to be a Knick*.


youre right about that..... which is why he hasn't come out and said anything publicly regarding this season or afterwards.




cp3 said:


> "It is just rumors; you can't control it," ... "It's always going to happen, and it's part of the game. I'm just happy to be back with my team."


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Knicks4life said:


> There are only two team that well make a legit offer without a guarantee the Celtics and the Clippers, Chris has all the leverage in this situation if he wants to be a Knick he is going to be a Knick.


not in the slightest. the hornets can just let him rot on the roster for a year and take the caproom into next offseason if they see suit. I have faith that the hornets are more than content with letting that happen or letting other teams duke it out for the most enticing offer, they have plenty of leverage considering they hold pauls contract in their hand.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Neither did Melo players don't just come out and say things like that in public they have their agents do it, as a Knicks fan I don't know how you don't already know how this thing works.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I'll never understand the logic of not taking anything back before getting something. I can understand not taking back a toxic contract, that much I can, but to just sit on your hands and let a top tier player walk for nothing is a terrible idea. I said the same thing last year when people thought Denver shouldn't take New York's offer. 

They got all those guys from NY, reenergized and made a playoff run. Looks like China and Nene are going to dampen their longterm prospects, but that was still the better decision then just accepting being a 20 win team. You still have to stay competitive, show some pride.


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Knicks4life said:


> Neither did Melo players don't just come out and say things like that in public they have their agents do it, as a Knicks fan I don't know how you don't already know how this thing works.


because the hornets have no interest in a velociraptor aged billups and some dude whos name sounds like sherbet(like him btw). theres going to be a bid war involving chris paul that the knicks cant touch in a trade, whether he signs with them in the offseason or not simply aint relevant to me


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> I'll never understand the logic of not taking anything back before getting something. I can understand not taking back a toxic contract, that much I can, but to just sit on your hands and let a top tier player walk for nothing is a terrible idea. I said the same thing last year when people thought Denver shouldn't take New York's offer.
> 
> They got all those guys from NY, reenergized and made a playoff run. Looks like China and Nene are going to dampen their longterm prospects, but that was still the better decision then just accepting being a 20 win team. You still have to stay competitive, show some pride.


if the clippers re-up jordan on a decent contract and are good with tossing gordon in a trade they probably are gonna be frontrunners


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Tooeasy said:


> because the hornets have no interest in a velociraptor aged billups and some dude whos name sounds like sherbet(like him btw). theres going to be a bid war involving chris paul that the knicks cant touch in a trade, whether he signs with them in the offseason or not simply aint relevant to me


Teams wont offer alot because they have no guarantee almost all these enticing offers you are reading about are being leaked by the Hornets in an attempt to get a nice package the best you will probably get is Kaman or DeAndre & Minny's #1.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Nuggets are going to be a bad team this year. Not sure they got anything for Melo, if the team got worse. The main reason not to trade a star is because you get worse and don't really get anything. I mean look at Toronto and Cleveland. They got nothing at all. Gallinari is meaningless to the W column.


----------



## ChosenFEW

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Tooeasy said:


> because the hornets have no interest in a velociraptor aged billups and some dude whos name sounds like sherbet(like him btw). theres going to be a bid war involving chris paul that the knicks cant touch in a trade, whether he signs with them in the offseason or not simply aint relevant to me





knicks4life said:


> Neither did Melo players don't just come out and say things like that in public they have their agents do it, as a Knicks fan I don't know how you don't already know how this thing works.


too easy basically said it. With melo the knicks had some young pieces to entice. With the "leak" about chris wanting the knicks to trade for him is just to get the other teams more active in the pursuit. Especially when pretty much anyone else can match or offer better than what the knicks have.

theyre using the knicks right now and Im not going to fall for that shit. and CP3 isn't coming in the offseason for 11-13 million a season especially with amare and melo getting 20 each.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Ultimately I think it's going to end up being Boston because they're willing to gamble. Unlike the Clippers they don't have a future to screw up, so I ultimately expect the Clippers to make a safer deal that adds to the Griffin/Gordon core rather than rolling the dice on Paul possibly leaving and everything blowing up in their face after.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

He would give either LA team a guarantee. It's not all leverage...

I feel like I've been saying this a lot recently..


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The Los Angeles Clippers have been aggressive in their pursuit of New Orleans Hornets guard Chris Paul, but their initial offer to Hornets general manager Dell Demps did not include either shooting guard Eric Gordon or restricted free agent center DeAndre Jordan, according to a source with knowledge of the discussions.

The Clippers, Golden State Warriors and Boston Celtics have been the most aggressive teams pursuing Paul, but so far the Clippers have been the least desperate to land him because they believe they are set up to win in the short and long term if they can re-sign Jordan, extend Gordon this year and Blake Griffin next year and upgrade at the small forward position either through free agency or with Minnesota's unprotected first round pick in 2012.

The Clippers are reluctant to part with either Gordon or Jordan in any trade for Paul, the source said, because Paul hasn't given any assurances he will re-sign with them following the 2011-12 season and owner Donald Sterling is still deeply stung from the way forward Elton Brand burned the Clippers in 2008 by signing with the Philadelphia 76ers.

The franchise has just begun to dig itself out of the crater Brand's unexpected defection left behind. Point guard Baron Davis, whom Brand recruited to join him in L.A., was shipped off to Cleveland last February at great cost, the Clippers 2011 first-round pick that ended up as the No. 1 overall pick in the draft.

Without assurances that Paul will commit to the franchise long term, the Clippers are reluctant to break up their core group of young players or future draft picks they feel are essential to convincing Griffin to sign an extension with them next summer.

Paul has let it be known that signing free-agent center Tyson Chandler would increase his chances of re-signing with any team that trades for him, the source said, but at this point the Clippers have no intention of pursuing Chandler because is expected to command a deal of between $12-15 million per season, significantly more than Jordan, whom they are optimistic they can re-sign for a five-year deal between $7-9 million per year.

The Clippers' initial offer to New Orleans did include future draft picks, the source said. They also indicated they would be willing to absorb the contracts of players like small forward Trevor Ariza.

While Gordon and Jordan are obviously the Clippers' most desirable trade assets, the team also has former first-round picks Eric Bledsoe and Al-Farouq Aminu, the expiring contract of center Chris Kaman and Minnesota's unprotected first-round pick in 2012.

Paul has been the Clippers primary trade target. While the team also has interest in Orlando's Dwight Howard, it has yet to engage any substantive discussions with the Magic, the source said. Still, at this point Paul is the Clippers' primary target because his game would mesh better with Griffin and Gordon than Howard.

No trades can be completed until a new collective bargaining agreement is passed by the players association and the owners.

Ramona Shelburne is a reporter and columnist for ESPNLosAngeles.com


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HKF said:


> Nuggets are going to be a bad team this year. Not sure they got anything for Melo, if the team got worse. The main reason not to trade a star is because you get worse and don't really get anything. I mean look at Toronto and Cleveland. They got nothing at all. Gallinari is meaningless to the W column.


They basically let those guys walk though so you're proving my point for me.

And the Nuggets will be a bad team but you're trying to pin it on Gallo. You always try to pin a guy down by his value as the best player on a team, if that whole team came back he'd be probably 3rd or 4th best. The Nuggets aren't going to lose because Gallo is a bad player, they're going to lose because free agency gutted them. 

And I still maintain if they got absolutely nothing for Carmelo they'd be historically bad. It's one thing to be a mediocre team, it's another to be what the Cavs were last year. It completely demoralizes everyone and noone wants to be involved in that.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

So Jamel any more on that Rondo to Indy rumor?


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> He would give either LA team a guarantee. It's not all leverage...
> 
> I feel like I've been saying this a lot recently..


He would give the Lakers a guarantee, the only guarantee he would give the Clippers is an Elton Brand type guarantee.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Love the way the Clippers are playing this...we want Paul but not at the cost of our future stars...Kaman, Bledsoe, Aminu, and Minnys 1st round pick last chance? And on another note, Tyson Chandler wants 12-15 Mill a year???!!! No wonder Mavs wants no part of him!


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Didn't Paul say he would sign with the Clippers if dealt there, if so the Clippers need to stop being stupid and just give the Hornets Eric Gordon.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Chris paul would only sign there if Gordon and Griffin are there...Paul and Griffin only would just be another 2nd round exit but with Paul, Gordon and Griffin are title contenders!


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

If that the case, then NO should tell the Clippers to suck it. 

Boston and Houston packages are better, and they don't mind if they only have Paul for one year.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

A package of Kaman expiring contract, Eric Bledsoe, Aminu, and Minnys 1st round pick is not a bad deal...u get a top 3 pick in next years deep draft plus the one Hornets have already...two young prospects in Bledsoe and Aminu...another trade asset in Kaman in which you can flip for another young prospect and draft pick...


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> He would give either LA team a guarantee. It's not all leverage


But he isn't going to sign. So the Clippers front office would need to interrupt The Donald while he's putting the boots to one of his Cuban hookers and convince him to make a wager that could **** up his franchise if it went south. And ultimately I don't believe that he'll say yes.



NOFX22 said:


> A package of Kaman expiring contract, Eric Bledsoe, Aminu, and Minnys 1st round pick is not a bad deal...u get a top 3 pick in next years deep draft plus the one Hornets have already...two young prospects in Bledsoe and Aminu...another trade asset in Kaman in which you can flip for another young prospect and draft pick...


100% of Kaman's value comes from being an expiring deal. They won't be "flipping it for draft picks and prospects". If they deal him it would be as salary ballast in a deal for a disgruntled player on someone else's roster. 

Also, while the Minnesota pick could end up a top three one, it's just as likely to have reduced value as the T'wolves are no longer tanking and have been actively attempting to package some of their prospects for a better vet. Add in the new coach, the shiny new point guard to go along with the rest of the players and Wes Johnson's stepping up his game and that pick could be quite reduced in value.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



E.H. Munro said:


> But he isn't going to sign. So the Clippers front office would need to interrupt The Donald while he's putting the boots to one of his Cuban hookers and convince him to make a wager that could **** up his franchise if it went south. And ultimately I don't believe that he'll say yes.
> 
> 
> 
> 100% of Kaman's value comes from being an expiring deal. They won't be "flipping it for draft picks and prospects". If they deal him it would be as salary ballast in a deal for a disgruntled player on someone else's roster.
> 
> Also, while the Minnesota pick could end up a top three one, it's just as likely to have reduced value as the T'wolves are no longer tanking and have been actively attempting to package some of their prospects for a better vet. Add in the new coach, the shiny new point guard to go along with the rest of the players and Wes Johnson's stepping up his game and that pick could be quite reduced in value.


Chris Kaman went healthy can still avg 15-17ppg and 10rpg and 2blk and he's still relatively young...which means he's a starting center in more than half of the NBA teams out there. Sources say the Spurs, Pistons, and 76ers are interested in Kaman...the asking price of young player and draft pick is not too high...The Minnesota situation, yes they have young players ready to make a move and a good head coach in Adleman but you forget who's in charge in Minnesota? Kaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahn!


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



E.H. Munro said:


> But he isn't going to sign. So the Clippers front office would need to interrupt The Donald while he's putting the boots to one of his Cuban hookers and convince him to make a wager that could **** up his franchise if it went south. And ultimately I don't believe that he'll say yes.


Yeah he would actually. It's been reported that although the Knicks are by far his top choice he'd be willing to sign an extension with the Lakers or Clippers. Don't forget the money aspect.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



> The Hornets are collecting bids for Chris Paul from several teams and are expected to make a decision by Friday, according to sources.
> 
> Offers coming from the Warriors and Clippers are believed to be the most enticing to New Orleans' GM Dell Demps.
> 
> The Clippers would have to include restricted free agent DeAndre Jordan, Al-Farouq Aminu, Eric Bledsoe and the 2012 first round pick from the Wolves to acquire Paul.
> 
> Paul would reportedly prefer the Clippers over the Warriors because of the chance of being paired with Blake Griffin and Eric Gordon.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...narowski_chris_paul_hornets_offers_nba_120611


----------



## gi0rdun

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dissonance said:


> That lineup still won't go anywhere. Warriors offer is awful too in comparison to the others.


Warriors offer is awful? I'm pretty sure it's one of the best. In trades like these it's really about the quality of players and not the quantity. The secondary guys like Thompson, Udoh, Bledsoe, Aminu don't matter because they are players that get flipped in 4-5 years as decent cap fillers or just leave the team. The Nuggets would have been in much better shape from the Melo trade if they could have landed one star. Instead almost everyone they acquired will be leaving the team within the next few season.

Steph Curry is the best centerpiece in any of the Paul trades. It's much easier to build a franchise around Stephen Curry than Eric Gordon or Rajon Rondo.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



> Also: sources say Eric Gordon has not and will not be offered to NO for CP3. Minds change, as we know, but that's LAC's position right now.





> But the Celtics stepped forward with an offer that would not have to come with any commitment from Paul that he'd re-sign with Boston after the season. According to a person familiar with the discussions, the Celtics offered Rajon Rondo, two future first-round picks, and restricted free agent Jeff Green in a sign-and-trade for Paul.
> 
> The impetus behind the Celtics' potential rental offer for Paul was intriguing: Come to Boston, take a shot at winning a title with Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett while the window is still open, and then have enough room to entice Dwight Howard to come on board as an unrestricted free agent next summer. Garnett and Allen come off the books July 1, leaving the Celtics with only $30.4 million in committed salary for next season, when Howard can opt out of his contract with Orlando.





> Update 10:00pm via SI.com
> 
> Sources said their offer includes point guard Rajon Rondo, a 2012 top-10 protected first-round pick from the Clippers, second-year guard Avery Bradley and rookie guard E'Twaun Moore. Another source said restricted free agent Jeff Green would likely be part of that deal as well.


http://www.celticslife.com/2011/12/danny-offers-rondo-green-two-1st.html

*waits for Ehmunro to say this has been the plan for 7 years and fight for it's inevitability to the death*


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Peter Vecsey on CP3 to Celtics: "Well, according to one pretty piped-in informer, it was a done deal until CP3 Knixed it by refusing to sign an ext."


----------



## Diable

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Vecsey is obviously not in tune with the story, which is that Boston is apparently willing to take it's chances without getting a commitment to sign an extension. It really makes quite a bit of sense for them to gamble that they can get him to stay. If they lose they probably won't suck that much more than they would have otherwise. You might only get one (or two if Paul takes the player option after next season) year, but maybe you convince him that you can reload. One big problem is the current ownership, which is obviously of the Robert Sarver mindset and would probably need to be replaced by someone more likely to invest heavily in making the team a contender after Pierce and Allen expire.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

lol @ Vecsey...bold and wrong...as usual..


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Diable said:


> One big problem is the current ownership, which is obviously of the Robert Sarver mindset and would probably need to be replaced by someone more likely to invest heavily in making the team a contender after Pierce and Allen expire.


The Celtics have spent pretty heavily in recent years, actually. It's become clear that Wyc and company will spend on a contender but aren't going to shell out 70 million for a team that plays .500 ball.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> Yeah he would actually. It's been reported that although the Knicks are by far his top choice he'd be willing to sign an extension with the Lakers or Clippers. Don't forget the money aspect.


OK, let me try again, he isn't leaving $25 million on the table to sign an extension, so what he's willing to offer is a _verbal_ commitment to sign an extension next summer. You know, like the verbal commitment that Elton Brand personally gave The Donald when he opted out of his deal a few years back? Capisci?



NOFX22 said:


> Chris Kaman went healthy can still avg 15-17ppg and 10rpg and 2blk and he's still relatively young...which means he's a starting center in more than half of the NBA teams out there.


He's had exactly one healthy season like that in his career (I mean I recall vaguely that he had something like a 16/12 season that was foreshortened by injury a few years back, but 2010 has been his only full season of 15+/10+ ball for his career). Is he acceptable to plug a hole at center? Probably. Will rebuilding teams give up assets for him? You're joking, right?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



E.H. Munro said:


> OK, let me try again, he isn't leaving $25 million on the table to sign an extension, so what he's willing to offer is a _verbal_ commitment to sign an extension next summer. You know, like the verbal commitment that Elton Brand personally gave The Donald when he opted out of his deal a few years back? Capisci?


First of all don't condescend me

But why wouldn't he be able to do what Carmelo did, sign an extension with the Hornets (with an agreement to be traded) then go to LA. IIRC that option wasn't taken out of the CBA. If it was my mistake.

If it wasn't what is this 25M on the table stuff about


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Diable said:


> One big problem is the current ownership, which is obviously of the Robert Sarver mindset and would probably need to be replaced by someone more likely to invest heavily in making the team a contender after Pierce and Allen expire.


Actually, in a weird sort of way, this is probably wrong. I will agree that if Boston's owners were here for the long term, they'd be more hesitant.

_However_, the owners' note comes due in a couple of years and they just signed a below-market cable deal in exchange for a $120 million payday (they took about 60% of the going rate from Xfinity in exchange for the up front cash). Somewhat analogous to when Paul "Thanks, Dad!" Gaston signed a 15 year below-market cable deal with FoxSports New England (which is now Comcast/Xfinity Sports New England) in exchange for $60 million in up front cash. Add in the fact that Boston's owners were among the hardliner group (with no apparent reason to be so) and it looks to me like they're planning on selling. And having Chris Paul in tow makes the franchise just that much more valuable...



Dre said:


> *waits for Ehmunro to say this has been the plan for 7 years and fight for it's inevitability to the death*


I'm not certain what this is supposed to mean, but Boston has been pretty loud for the last several years that their plan was to keep their cap clean for the summer of 2012 in order to sign a free agent to rebuild around. Did you simply ignore all their statements in that regard? 

About the only change is that Deron Williams (the guy that Ainge has been lusting for since 2005 when he attempted to trade Pierce to land him) got traded to New Jersey in the interim, so they've changed focus to CP3 as he's actually available. And, yes, just as they used Ray Allen to recruit Garnett (and how Miami relied on Wade to recruit players, and how New York's relying on Amar'e and 'Melo to recruit CP3) they're hoping that CP3 will recruit players to come to Boston. Is this only stunning when the Celtics do it?



Dre said:


> But why wouldn't he be able to do what Carmelo did, sign an extension with the Hornets (with an agreement to be traded) then go to LA. IIRC that option wasn't taken out of the CBA.


Extend and trades are limited to no more than three years in length. Paul's contract has two years to run, so an extension means exactly one more year. This is why he won't be signing an extension with anyone. 

He's one good knee injury from being a near max player. Given his size & game, and the looooooong history that guys like him have of falling off a cliff between the ages of 30 and 32, he's going to want the 5/98 that he'll get from whomever trades for him after his six month waiting period has elapsed.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



E.H. Munro said:


> OK, let me try again, he isn't leaving $25 million on the table to sign an extension, so what he's willing to offer is a _verbal_ commitment to sign an extension next summer. You know, like the verbal commitment that Elton Brand personally gave The Donald when he opted out of his deal a few years back? Capisci?
> 
> 
> 
> He's had exactly one healthy season like that in his career (I mean I recall vaguely that he had something like a 16/12 season that was foreshortened by injury a few years back, but 2010 has been his only full season of 15+/10+ ball for his career). Is he acceptable to plug a hole at center? Probably. Will rebuilding teams give up assets for him? You're joking, right?


Did I say a rebuilding team will trade for him? 3 teams are interested in Kaman, the pistons, 76ers, and Spurs...they want him to be their starting center not just some guy with an expiring contract. The 76ers need a center and Kaman has played well with Brand before. Maybe trade him for Evan Turner who struggled last year plus another guy to match salary. Pistons need post scoring something Kaman can provide. I know they have a lock jam at the guard position maybe a trade for young player like Knight...Spurs Needed a center that can score and defend...the Spurs can probably offer Splittler, their rookie from San Diego I forget his name, and James Anderson! Those proposals are fair considering what both teams needs...


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



E.H. Munro said:


> I'm not certain what this is supposed to mean, but Boston has been pretty loud for the last several years that their plan was to keep their cap clean for the summer of 2012 in order to sign a free agent to rebuild around. Did you simply ignore all their statements in that regard?
> 
> About the only change is that Deron Williams (the guy that Ainge has been lusting for since 2005 when he attempted to trade Pierce to land him) got traded to New Jersey in the interim, so they've changed focus to CP3 as he's actually available. And, yes, just as they used Ray Allen to recruit Garnett (and how Miami relied on Wade to recruit players, and how New York's relying on Amar'e and 'Melo to recruit CP3) they're hoping that CP3 will recruit players to come to Boston. Is this only stunning when the Celtics do it?


Except it's about a couple months from the tipping point and the Celtics are a fringe player for all 3 of those guys. 

My point is you acted all this time like you could just speak it to existence but now it's looking like something that would be a long shot to happen, *in all 3 cases*. 

They can be as loud as they want but now it seems they weren't being realistic.

In short all these grand longsighted schemes building towards a couple free agents end up looking shortsighted because they got jumped in the line and noone wants to go there. 



> Extend and trades are limited to no more than three years in length. Paul's contract has two years to run, so an extension means exactly one more year. This is why he won't be signing an extension with anyone.


OK fair enough, that's good info actually.



> He's one good knee injury from being a near max player. Given his size & game, and the looooooong history that guys like him have of falling off a cliff between the ages of 30 and 32, he's going to want the 5/98 that he'll get from whomever trades for him after his six month waiting period has elapsed.


Again with the amateur accounting though. So despite him standing next to Carmelo all summer, the rampant Knicks rumors, Melo saying he wants him, New York only signing guys to one year deals...you still think he's not dead set on the Knicks, that he'll just resign anywhere they trade him to?

Do you think he's been unaware of the financial ramifications? It kind of just insults his and CAA's intelligence to act like he doesn't already know the loss he's going to take and already took that into account with this New York push. It's bordering on kind of disrespect to just act like these guys are drones who will go to whoever puts the biggest check in front of them, despite all the other evidence you see.

I said the same shit last year with Carmelo, and now I'm just catching my wind and having to type the same things til I'm blue in the hands.

And all you can say is "bu-bu-bu-but money on the table!" It's obviously not about that, if you guys would take off your team blinders and see which way the wind is blowing.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



NOFX22 said:


> Did I say a rebuilding team will trade for him? 3 teams are interested in Kaman, the pistons, 76ers, and Spurs...they want him to be their starting center not just some guy with an expiring contract. The 76ers need a center and Kaman has played well with Brand before. Maybe trade him for Evan Turner who struggled last year plus another guy to match salary. Pistons need post scoring something Kaman can provide. I know they have a lock jam at the guard position maybe a trade for young player like Knight...Spurs Needed a center that can score and defend...the Spurs can probably offer Splittler, their rookie from San Diego I forget his name, and James Anderson! Those proposals are fair considering what both teams needs...


You aren't getting Knight or Turner for Kaman's corpse, no.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> Except it's about a couple months from the tipping point and the Celtics are a fringe player for all 3 of those guys.


All three what guys?



Dre said:


> My point is you acted all this time like you could just speak it to existence but now it's looking like something that would be a long shot to happen, *in all 3 cases*.


Again, all three what cases? Boston's only attempting to deal for Paul, and as of now, given that they and Houston are the only teams willing to play without a net, I'd say it looks like one of them are going to end up with him.



Dre said:


> They can be as loud as they want but now it seems they weren't being realistic.


Weren't being realistic in their intention to keep their 2012 cap clear to pursue free agents? What the **** were they supposed to do? Rebuild around Jeff Green and Avery ****ing Bradley?



Dre said:


> Again with the amateur accounting though. So despite him standing next to Carmelo all summer, the rampant Knicks rumors, Melo saying he wants him, New York only signing guys to one year deals...you still think he's not dead set on the Knicks, that he'll just resign anywhere they trade him to?


Last summer when you were assuring all of us that 'Melo would take a huge discount to play for the Knicks and that the Nuggets would willingly get ****ed in the ass by the luxury tax for the privilege of getting back low firsts, and MemphisX laughed at you telling you that Anthony was going to get every dime he was eligible for, did you at least admit that you were wrong? 

4/55 vs. 5/98. Those are the cold hard facts. And that's why the Knicks are desperately searching for someone stupid enough to give them something for Chauncey Billups so that they can actually trade for CP3. Even they know it probably won't happen if they have to get him in free agency.



Dre said:


> I said the same shit last year with Carmelo, and now I'm just catching my wind and having to type the same things til I'm blue in the hands.


Do you not realize that you were wrong? Carmelo Anthony got every last cent that the old CBA allowed him to collect. He didn't leave so much as a single ****ing penny on the table (and this is part of the reason that they don't have the cap space for Paul next summer). Denver didn't make a deal until New York created a gigantic trade exception, which was worth some $15 million in real cash to them (as they went from being luxury tax payers to luxury tax beneficiaries). In essence they sold Anthony for about $15 million, that was the real payoff they got out of the trade. Not the pupu platter of suck.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

CP3 Update: Source close to process tells ESPN that NOR talks w/GSW "definitely cooling" because of GSW refusal to put Steph Curry in deal


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

On a side note, the Warriors seem on a mission to unload Ellis. I wonder who finally makes that deal?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



E.H. Munro said:


> All three what guys?


Dwight, Deron, Paul



> Weren't being realistic in their intention to keep their 2012 cap clear to pursue free agents? What the **** were they supposed to do? Rebuild around Jeff Green and Avery ****ing Bradley?


Realistic in their expectations of getting Paul, Dwight or Deron. You and Bogg talked about Deron and Dwight at length on multiple occasions like it was the primary reason for saving the cap space, and now it's a fringe possibility and it's "oh it's about the cap space to sign anyone"...don't make me go bumping.



> Last summer when you were assuring all of us that 'Melo would take a huge discount to play for the Knicks and that the Nuggets would willingly get ****ed in the ass by the luxury tax for the privilege of getting back low firsts, and MemphisX laughed at you telling you that Anthony was going to get every dime he was eligible for, did you at least admit that you were wrong?
> 
> 4/55 vs. 5/98. Those are the cold hard facts. And that's why the Knicks are desperately searching for someone stupid enough to give them something for Chauncey Billups so that they can actually trade for CP3. Even they know it probably won't happen if they have to get him in free agency.


That's a Greg Oden argument...you can't say what will or wouldn't happen because the Nuggets folded and gave him his extension. I'm not about to argue about complete hypotheticals. 

I knew someone this year would try to throw that extension in my face like proof but the fact is you don't know what would've happened if the Nuggets held firm and didn't offer the extend and trade. There's literally *nothing* on record indicating he would've resigned in Denver besides you and your "money on the table" logic. 

I guess because he signed the contract to go to New York that means he would've signed it to stay in Denver right :sarcasm:

MemphisX was the one talking about don't negotiate because he'd eventually sign the contract and stay in Denver for the money. 

So how was I wrong, because *above all else* I said he was ending up in New York. The trade bait changed every day, that's what happens in a negotiation, but I always maintained he would be in New York whether he had to walk or not.

Go to that thread and see *how many* times I said no matter what anyone else had to say he was ****ing going to be a Knick. And what uniform does he wear now? Don't reply to this because there's nothing you can say and nothing I'm going to read contrary.

And Paul will be a Knick too unless he goes to LA or agrees to be rented out for a year (unlikely). It's not the same situation entirely because Carmelo wasn't willing to listen to anything but New York, but people are once again trying to have their dream scenarios and stick to their money mantras like it's not evident what the likely outcome for Paul is. 

And you know what, I said I was done earlier, now I'm just going to commentate, I'm not going to keep debating bullshit that will be forgotten or twisted around this time next year. Say what you want.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I wouldn't trade Curry for a rental either


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



> As the New Orleans Hornets push closer to making a decision on where to trade Chris Paul(notes), the All-Star point guard has indicated the Los Angeles Clippers and Golden State Warriors could significantly raise their chances of keeping him beyond this season if they also sign center Tyson Chandler(notes), league sources told Yahoo! Sports on Tuesday.
> 
> Paul hasnt promised he would re-sign with one of those teams following the 2011-12 season if they acquired Chandler, but league sources said Chandler could make a significant difference in ultimately swaying Paul to commit to a long-term deal.
> 
> Three teams in pursuit of Paul believe the Hornets will push for final offers and make a decision by the start of training camp on Friday, front-office sources told Yahoo! Sports. The Clippers and Warriors packages are the most intriguing to New Orleans general manager Dell Demps, league sources said.
> 
> So far, talks between the Hornets and Los Angeles Lakers have gathered little, if any, traction, sources said. The Boston Celtics remain aggressive in their pursuit of Paul and held discussions with New Orleans on Tuesday.





> The Hornets were significantly engaged in talks with the Clippers in talks on Tuesday, but the Clippers have shown no desire to meet Chandlers request for a contract starting at more than $12 million a year, sources said. The Clippers are worried about an ability to pay significant money to Blake Griffin(notes), Eric Gordon(notes), Paul and Chandler over the long term.





> As constituted, the Hornets prefer the Clippers and Warriors packages, but were still discussing several scenarios with the Celtics including third-team trade possibilities and sign-and-trade money for restricted free agent forward Jeff Green(notes). The Hornets prefer Curry to Rajon Rondo(notes), sources said, but a third team could sweeten the Celtics package beyond the core of Rondo and Green.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...narowski_chris_paul_hornets_offers_nba_120611


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> Realistic in their expectations of getting Paul, Dwight or Deron. You and Bogg talked about Deron and Dwight at length on multiple occasions like it was the primary reason for saving the cap space, and now it's a fringe possibility and it's "oh it's about the cap space to sign anyone"...don't make me go bumping.


To be fair, most of the time when I said that they were getting Paul and Dwight together I was just trying to set people off, but it has been blatantly obvious that they've been saving cap space for the summer of 2012 for _someone_, even if they didn't know exactly who at the time. It's the exact reason that they let Tony Allen walk over a completely fair(possibly below-market) third year on his contract last summer. Everybody _wants_ Dwight, Deron, or Paul, but there was always the probability you don't get your dream scenario. Keep in mind, I still call Semih Erden "Turkish Shaq", so I'm prone to exaggeration at times.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

In a perfect world Dwight would come to the Lakers and CP3 would go east to form a superteam in NY or even head to Beantown and see if they have another run in their core. I don't really want Paul in the west anymore seeing as he has a knack for going nuts on us, and if he goes east then the west will finally be the "weaker" conference and it'd be easier for the Lakers to stay competitive if the only team we have to go through going forward is the boys in OKC.

The only west coast destination that I would be somewhat okay with would be the Clippers. They're an L.A. team (and even though I'm obviously a Laker fan) so I don't really hate them or anything, and Paul/Gordon/Griffin would be a dirty tandem going forward.

This upcoming season is going to be extremely interesting. It seems that despite the lockout, this league will never really have complete and total parity, and that's a good thing. I'd rather see the best teams possible duking it out in the postseason then a bunch of medicore no name teams in the finals.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> Realistic in their expectations of getting Paul, Dwight or Deron. You and Bogg talked about Deron and Dwight at length on multiple occasions like it was the primary reason for saving the cap space, and now it's a fringe possibility and it's "oh it's about the cap space to sign anyone"...don't make me go bumping.


Pssst. C'mere. Let me tell you a secret. CP3 is going to be traded, probably within a week. And since there are exactly two teams willing to live with the rules as they're written, he's probably going to end up on one of those two teams. And odds are that he's going to re-up with one that gets him next summer rather than leave $43 million on the table.



Dre said:


> That's a Greg Oden argument...you can't say what will or wouldn't happen because the Nuggets folded and gave him his extension. I'm not about to argue about complete hypotheticals.


You do understand that there was nothing hypothetical about it as the extension was signed as part of the trade, and he could have taken less money to play in New York if he wanted, right? He wasn't going to. He was always getting every last dime he could get his hands on. The person making the hypothetical claim here is you, and the evidence for your hypothetical is that rather than leaving money on the table to help the Knicks in free agency in 2012 he demanded every last red penny due him under the old CBA. Not a very convincing case.



Dre said:


> So how was I wrong, because *above all else* I said he was ending up in New York. The trade bait changed every day, that's what happens in a negotiation, but I always maintained he would be in New York whether he had to walk or not.


That Denver would willingly grab Eddy Curry and Anthony Randolph just so that they could get something? That Carmelo didn't care about the money? Denver sold Anthony for cash when the time came and Anthony, rather than leaving money on the table because he really wanted to be a Knick grabbed every last dime he could. 

This is one reason that most of us have been laughing our asses off at the stories of Amar'e and "Melo begging Paul to take a 45% paycut to play for the Knicks. If they hadn't taken up 68% of New York's cap Paul wouldn't need to take the $43 million shave to go there.



Dre said:


> And Paul will be a Knick too unless he goes to LA or agrees to be rented out for a year (unlikely). It's not the same situation entirely because Carmelo wasn't willing to listen to anything but New York, but people are once again trying to have their dream scenarios and stick to their money mantras like it's not evident what the likely outcome for Paul is.


Could you point out the long list of superstars that sacrificed $43 million? At the end of the day it's nearly always about the money. Especially when you're 6', on the downhill side of your 20s, have a bum knee and in line for your last big contract.


----------



## HB

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

What team is trading for a one year rental?


----------



## ChosenFEW

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



E.H. Munro said:


> Could you point out the long list of superstars that sacrificed $43 million? At the end of the day it's nearly always about the money. Especially when you're 6', on the downhill side of your 20s, have a bum knee and in line for your last big contract.


lebron has really clouded everyones thinking when it comes to sacrificing money. It really is remarkable.


lebron could retire and go play baseball right now and hes still going to make boatloads of money based off his allure.


the guy made money just announcing where he was going to sign his contract...


----------



## Diable

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The money from 'the Announcement' went to the Boys Club I think, Lebron did not make money off it, although he might have gotten some sort of tax write off I suppose.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Chris Paul will not commit to signing a contract extension this summer with either the Warriors or Clippers, citing the potential financial ramifications of doing so rather than becoming a free agent and signing a new dea, according to sources.

It is unknown if Paul has a similar reluctance with the Lakers.

While both the Warriors and Clippers understand Paul's position, neither team feels comfortable paying a high price via trade without an assurance.

Paul has only reportedly told the Knicks that he willing to sign an extension after the season.

Via David Aldridge/NBA.com


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Have no idea how much faith to put in Ken Berger's tweet. But if it's true this would more or less signal New York giving up on CP3 and moving in another direction (unless they plan to trade Amar'e in a three way deal).



Ken Berger said:


> Multiple league executives say the Knicks are now in the lead to land Tyson Chandler, jumping in front of the Warriors.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



E.H. Munro said:


> Have no idea how much faith to put in Ken Berger's tweet. But if it's true this would more or less signal New York giving up on CP3 and moving in another direction (unless they plan to trade Amar'e in a three way deal).


Well, that'd be interesting. Amare+filler for Chris Paul and a signed and traded David West?

EDIT: Paul, Fields, Melo, West, Chandler would be a very intriguing lineup. I kinda like that.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

They've said a caveat to get Paul's attention is signing Chandler...so my guess is their next move if this is true is to try to trade Amare. 

I don't believe they've given up on Paul as the market gets _slower_ for him, doesn't make sense. If anything they should be encouraged he's not giving out any guarantees.

But noone's going to take Amare's balky back/knee ass, I'd like to see how they pull this off.

It would have to be a three way. Or maybe even a 4 way. 

Remember that Pacers rumor Jamel was talking about? A premise could be:

Pacers get Amare
Knicks get Paul
Celtics get Collison and Hibbert
Hornets get Rondo and more youngins and picks

Now of course other pieces would have to be added salary wise I imagine but every team gets what they've been looking for to an extent.

Pacers get their beastly interior player, Knicks get Paul, Celtics get what they wanted to balance out their team, Hornets don't get the ideal haul back, but Rondo is the best they an do with no leverage.

That's if you believe the Celtics and Pacers were talking Rondo.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> Pacers get Amare
> Knicks get Paul
> Celtics get Collison and Hibbert
> Hornets get Rondo and more youngins and picks
> 
> Now of course other pieces would have to be added salary wise I imagine but every team gets what they've been looking for to an extent.
> 
> Pacers get their beastly interior player, Knicks get Paul, Celtics get what they wanted to balance out their team, Hornets don't get the ideal haul back, but Rondo is the best they an do with no leverage.
> 
> That's if you believe the Celtics and Pacers were talking Rondo.


Rondo's absolutely being shopped, but Bird's placed Granger and Paul George off-limits, so I don't know who the Pacers are going to add to the Hornet's haul that will change their mind about getting Rondo back for Paul.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The other teams can add stray pieces I imagine. Landry Fields if the Grant Hill thing works out, Jeff Green maybe, Hansbrough, 

Not world beaters but put a couple of 3 guys together with picks and you have to be satisfied with what you get considering your asset is holding your feet to the fire


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I could see New Orleans taking Amare straight up in a deal, because the league still needs to sell the team and he's a big-name star on a long-term deal. I just don't see Landry Fields or Hansbrough convincing the NBA to build a team around Rondo, though.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

So your solution is?

And the NBA has the ultimate say but as far as what is negotiated and presented to the NBA, Demps and his guys aren't going to take back Amare. He's going to be toast in two years probably, and that big name thing doesn't work if he's miserable and winning 30 games a year. He's too old to act like he's a cornerstone you can plan a long term build around.

The Hornets aren't even sure they want Bynum, and he's way younger than Amare and is a 2 time (?) champion. That's what you sell to the public.

From what I understand ideally the Hornets want at least something on the dollar for Paul at the PG position, and that's what Rondo offers. 

And I think people are starting to underrate Rondo now. He's not as good as his numbers no, but I believe he's easily sellable as a centerpiece even if he isn't one, if you know what I'm saying. A lot of people walk around with the myth that he's the most important Celtic, he's hardly just a guy.

Plus the building doesn't stop with him, you still have cap space and draft picks in the coming years.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> So your solution is?


Amare and filler for Paul and David West, or Melo and filler for Paul and Trevor Ariza. If they're amnesty-ing Billups to overpay Chandler, they're running with a backcourt of Landry Fields, Toney Douglas, Iman Shumpert, and Andy Rautins. There HAS to be a follow-up move coming, it makes no sense to kill your "Chris Paul cap space" to overpay his best friend unless you're going to then trade for him. 



Dre said:


> And the NBA has the ultimate say but as far as what is negotiated and presented to the NBA, Demps and his guys aren't going to take back Amare. He's going to be toast in two years probably, and that big name thing doesn't work if he's miserable and winning 30 games a year. He's too old to act like he's a cornerstone you can plan a long term build around.


They don't need to have a competitive team for five years, they need an all-star starter to interest a billionaire. It's whatever after the other owners get their investment back.



Dre said:


> The Hornets aren't even sure they want Bynum, and he's way younger than Amare and is a 2 time (?) champion. That's what you sell to the public.


Bynum's knees are demonstrably worse, he's a bad character guy, and he's nowhere near as good a player as Amare. You sell talent, not a guy who rode Kobe and Pau coattails.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

**** the NBA if this happens.




> WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
> As http://SI.com reports, the Lakers, Hornets and Rockets are engaged in 3-way talks on deal that would send Chris Paul to Lakers


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dissonance said:


> **** the NBA if this happens.


I fully expect the Knicks to kill that deal.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Bogg said:


> They don't need to have a competitive team for five years, they need an all-star starter to interest a billionaire. It's whatever after the other owners get their investment back.


That's not how it works. Owners look at a team in 10 year windows at the least. You think you're going to entice an investment group with a third tier star with an injury history? This whole player centerpiece thing is a bit overrated anyway, if an investment group wants to get in the NBA, there's only 30 spots, they'll get in where they fit in and create their destiny. They're going to have the same mindset they had with the investment that brought them their millions, start from the bottom and build up. 




> Bynum's knees are demonstrably worse, he's a bad character guy, and he's nowhere near as good a player as Amare. You sell talent, not a guy who rode Kobe and Pau coattails.


Noone is saying Bynum is perfect, but for one he actually played a complete season last year and attributed to something he did to better prepare his body, not luck. I don't think he's as worn out as an Amare who's been through the wars, his injuries came from two freak occurences of 200+ pounds falling on his knees. As long as he can avoid people's body weight falling on his knees like every other NBA player, he'll be fine. He's only 24.

Feet are worse than knees IMO, Zydrunas Ilgauskus had terrible issues with those for a long time then they just stopped happening and he finished out his career strong. Bynum's only 24, he can do the same thing.

And Bynum isn't a perfect sell, but once again we're in a "best you can get" situation, and Bynum's a young guy who hasn't gotten a chance to sprout his wings...and Kobe and Phil and more have been quoted in the past saying they wouldn't win without him being in the lineup..that's not a coattail thing.

When it comes to Amare vs. Bynum, Amare will be at this level for another 2 years, you'll win 40 games, he'll be miserable and a malcontent..then he'll fall off a cliff...

Worst case scenario with Bynum he gets injured again, you just amnesty him and have cap space and high draft picks because you suck. But there's still a lot more room at 24 for Bynum to create a best case scenario.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Bogg said:


> I fully expect the Knicks to kill that deal.


How, with Amare? This isn't 2004 anymore

Not to mention Amare has enough juice to say he's not going and kill _that_.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> Noone is saying Bynum is perfect, but for one he actually played a complete season last year and attributed to something he did to better prepare his body, not luck.


It may have been a "full season" by bynumian standards, but by NBA schedule standards it was 28 m/g for 2/3 of a season.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> That's not how it works. Owners look at a team in 10 year windows at the least. You think you're going to entice an investment group with a third tier star with an injury history? This whole player centerpiece thing is a bit overrated anyway, if an investment group wants to get in the NBA, there's only 30 spots, they'll get in where they fit in and create their destiny. They're going to have the same mindset they had with the investment that brought them their millions, start from the bottom and build up.


Look, let's say the Hornets trade Chris Paul and David West for Amare, Turiaf, and Landry Fields. They follow that up by taking a flier on a free-agent swingman(say, Vince for the full MLE). Jarrett Jack, Vince, Ariza, Amare, and Okafor with Fields and Turiaf coming off the bench aren't world-beaters, but they're way better than what they'd be building around Bynum. 






Dre said:


> Noone is saying Bynum is perfect, but for one he actually played a complete season last year and attributed to something he did to better prepare his body, not luck. I don't think he's as worn out as an Amare who's been through the wars, his injuries came from two freak occurences of 200+ pounds falling on his knees. As long as he can avoid people's body weight falling on his knees like every other NBA player, he'll be fine. He's only 24.


Bynum played 54 games last year! That's not even a complete lockout-shortened season. What he did to feel better was skip the first half of the year and get swept in the second round. 




Dre said:


> And Bynum isn't a perfect sell, but once again we're in a "best you can get" situation, and Bynum's a young guy who hasn't gotten a chance to sprout his wings


Bynum hasn't had a chance to sprout his wings because he keeps getting hurt as a 25mpg role player in his early 20's. Playing him 36mpg as your centerpiece as he approaches his 30's isn't going make him any healthier.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

He came back late last season off his previous recovery and didn't get hurt for any substantial time after his return.

But nice spin attempt


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> He came back late last season off his previous recovery and didn't get hurt for any substantial time after his return.
> 
> But nice spin attempt


It's not a spin attempt. You said he played a full season. He missed the first third of the season because his knees broke down during the playoffs the year previous. 54 games is not a full season.

EDIT: I mean, by that logic, Kendrick Perkins also played a full season last year. Never missed a game due to injury, because he was healthy for the 2011 playoffs.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Bogg said:


> Look, let's say the Hornets trade Chris Paul and David West for Amare, Turiaf, and Landry Fields. They follow that up by taking a flier on a free-agent swingman(say, Vince for the full MLE). Jarrett Jack, Vince, Ariza, Amare, and Okafor with Fields and Turiaf coming off the bench aren't world-beaters, but they're way better than what they'd be building around Bynum.


Bynum was a throwaway comparison anyway, it was really about Rondo, so yeah sure I guess but I'm not going to continually devolve on a small portion of my previous point.

But then again I have to realize I'm talking about a Laker to a Celtics fan


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dissonance said:


> **** the NBA if this happens.


And people wonder why I've sworn to chop Morey into little tiny pieces if ever I meet him. That SOB is trying to stick my second favorite team with my least favorite player just to help keep my favourite player out of Boston. **** you, Morey. **** you and the inflatable llama you rode in on.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> Bynum was a throwaway comparison anyway, it was really about Rondo, so yeah sure I guess but I'm not going to continually devolve on a small portion of my previous point.
> 
> But then again I have to realize I'm talking about a Laker to a Celtics fan


Right, Bynum playing for a team I don't like is the reason I think that a somewhat injury-prone all-star is a better cornerstone than a significantly more injury-prone role-player.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Lakers get CP3
Rockets get Gasol
NO gets 
Lowry, Patterson, Morris 
Rockets unprotected first rounder
Knicks first rounder.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....s-hornets-talking-three-way-chris-paul-trade/


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Bogg said:


> It's not a spin attempt. You said he played a full season. He missed the first third of the season because his knees broke down during the playoffs the year previous. 54 games is not a full season.
> 
> EDIT: I mean, by that logic, Kendrick Perkins also played a full season last year. Never missed a game due to injury, because he was healthy for the 2011 playoffs.


OK fine, he didn't play a complete season, I should have said healthy. 

After he finished recovering from his previous injury he came back, played substantial minutes, and became a rebounding machine.

11 points (with no plays called for him), 12 rebounds and 2.4 blocks after the all-star break. missed 4 games upon his return. I like how you just sidestepped the Ilgauskus comparison. It's possible.

And what are these character issues you're talking about. I believe you're making shit up because of that flagrant


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Bogg said:


> Right, Bynum playing for a team I don't like is the reason I think that a somewhat injury-prone all-star is a better cornerstone than a significantly more injury-prone role-player.


He's not a cornerstone he's like 29. 

And Bynum is 24 and had two freak injuries he never fully recovered from. 

Amare has a shoddy back and knees ready to give out, especially at his age.

And once again, yeah, I bet if Bynum wasn't a Laker it wouldn't be all doom and gloom and "roleplayer". 11, 9, 2 blocks at 24 with no shots, knees or not that's not a roleplayer for long.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



> Adrian Wojnarowski: Billups' still in dark on Knicks next move with him: amnesty, trade into cap space...or: Possible sign-and-trade with Dallas for Chandler?





> Adrian Wojnarowski: Knicks have privately assured people that if they trade Billups instead of using amnesty on him, he's destined for a "good team." Dallas?


If Barea isn't back that makes sense and keeps Billups happy probably


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> OK fine, he didn't play a complete season, I should have said healthy.
> 
> After he finished recovering from his previous injury he came back, played substantial minutes, and became a rebounding machine.
> 
> 11 points (with no plays called for him), 12 rebounds and 2.4 blocks after the all-star break. missed 4 games upon his return. I like how you just sidestepped the Ilgauskus comparison. It's possible.



Sure, anything's _possible_. However, Amare's missed significant time once in the last five seasons(played 53 games in 08-09, which, I mean, shouldn't count if Bynum last year doesn't count) while Bynum's been the exact opposite, with one _healthy_ season in the last five. I see no reason to write off Amare as ruined physically while at the same time being optimistic about Bynum.




Dre said:


> And what are these character issues you're talking about. I believe you're making shit up because of that flagrant


You're right, it would have been more accurate for me to call him a dirty player. That flagrant on Barrea was, if I remember correctly, the third time he'd done that exact same thing in the last year and a half.


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I'm confused as to why any team would agree to send an all-star to the Lakers.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Clippers have the most to offer. If im Orlando i would look to squeeze the most out of that deal that we can and just start from scratch. We messed up our chance keeping Dwight when we traded all our cap space away for freakin Hedo Turkoglu and Gilbert. Idiot GM needs to just accept that theres no way we can now get CP3 or DWill(both who had player options this summer) without the stupid capspace he traded away in VC and Rashard panic deal. Now it would make no sense for Dwight to want to stay here and waste 3 more years playing w Hedo and Gils while their contract expire. Just accept that you blew it, and get as much as u can. Hopefully build around EGo, Deandre, and two 2012 draft picks would be nice.


----------



## HB

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Good/Great player, but if you think he isnt going to need surgery down the line, you are delusional. Someone is going to give up a lot to get him


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Bogg said:


> Sure, anything's _possible_. However, Amare's missed significant time once in the last five seasons(played 53 games in 08-09, which, I mean, shouldn't count if Bynum last year doesn't count) while Bynum's been the exact opposite, with one _healthy_ season in the last five. I see no reason to write off Amare as ruined physically while at the same time being optimistic about Bynum.


The difference is *age.* 

Let's look at our last glimpses of these players:

Amare, 29, was last seen nursing a bad back among other ailments and under performing against Boston.

Bynum, 24, angrily flailing Barea across the floor, was healthy, and finished the season not just healthy, but strong.

Amare is currently an all-star, but he bent over backwards to keep the Knicks in the hunt, got a bad back because of it, 
has had eye surgery, microfracture, and is entering middle age in NBA terms, on a contract that calls for major production.

Bynum has suffered two knee injuries as a result of scrums for looseballs where a player landed on his knee, something that rarely happens, except it happened to him. He took the full time to recover his knees, and was last seen playing the best basketball of his life down the stretch. He's 24, and aside from the knees he has no other serious ailments and heading into his prime basketball years.

One is clearly trending up, one will be lucky to still be plateaued. You can look at it in a 5 year window and give Amare the nod. Or you could go the most relevant route, which is what they immediately look like heading into the future. Seeing as how this entire discussion is about who is the better chip for the future, who would everyone who read this choose?

The correct answer is neither of these guys are a cornerstone (or will be for long), but I'm going to take Bynum. Injury history taken into account in both cases, I'd still rather have the 24 year old who will relish the opportunity over the 29 year old who won't want to be there. I'm willing to bet Bynum's healthiness down the stretch was no fluke, and his youth will do him justice as he progresses further away from recovery and more into strengthening in his prime years. 

And all that said that was just a small portion of what the previous discussion was. I hate this meandering shit...it was about Rondo. I'd take him over both of these guys.


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

**** no to that deal from the Rockets side. Hell ****ing no. It's not about the Lakers, but essentially Gasol for Scola, Martin, and picks is insane.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Well, I'm not gonna do the R-star thing where this goes on for six pages. I think Bynum's value is ruined by his balky knees, you think Amare's age and various ailments make him more of an injury risk. Seeing as there's no real way to prove either statement aside from waiting 3-5 years, agree to disagree?


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Spaceman Spiff said:


> **** no to that deal from the Rockets side. Hell ****ing no. It's not about the Lakers, but essentially Gasol for Scola, Martin, and picks is insane.


I was wondering where this guy vanished to the other day.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Bogg said:


> Well, I'm not gonna do the R-star thing where this goes on for six pages. I think Bynum's value is ruined by his balky knees, you think Amare's age and various ailments make him more of an injury risk. Seeing as there's no real way to prove either statement aside from waiting 3-5 years, agree to disagree?


Fine. But 5 years from now it'll be even more obvious :yep:


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

You mean when Bynum's playing weight crests 400 and some schmuck is paying him $15 million to waddle up and down the court 20 m/g for the 60 games or so that he's healthy enough to play?


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



thaKEAF said:


> I was wondering where this guy vanished to the other day.


Just waiting for things to get interesting again


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The Lakers are going to be worse if they trade Gasol for Paul and don't get Dwight Howard.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Would they be? Paul manhandles teams by himself in June.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



E.H. Munro said:


> You mean when Bynum's playing weight crests 400 and some schmuck is paying him $15 million to waddle up and down the court 20 m/g for the 60 games or so that he's healthy enough to play?


You would take him in a second in the right offer.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

DAldridge We know Lakers would get CP3. We know Gasol would go to HOU. And NOH? Source: Scola, Martin, Dragic, 1st/2nd round picks. But not done deal.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

If this go through, and we flip Drew and LO for Dwight........ha


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

What does that leave Houston with. Why are they getting involved just to get raped


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Honestly, though if Houston lets this go through. Then Morey should be fired on the spot, you can't allow this to happen.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Im hearing that Houston is trying to acquire Pau and then make a serious offer to Nene.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



> Source says Hornets thought they were very close to a deal to send Chris Paul to Lakers but then Lakers backed off. To be continued.


http://twitter.com/#!/christomasson


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Interesting. 

The may wanted Drew instead of Pau.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Every day this bullshit reaches a crescendo with another team then it just evaporates


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Game3525 said:


> Interesting.
> 
> The may wanted Drew instead of Pau.


They said the Lakers backed off.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Curious though, can I actually see this long list of players "like" Paul who fell off a cliff at 31? Ehmunro?


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Dre said:


> They said the Lakers backed off.


Yeah, I know.

That may be the reason they backed off, Drew is more valuable then Pau at the moment and the only way we can get Howard.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Wasn't the three way sending Pau out? How does that...??


----------



## Luke

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Please please please happen.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

**** Pau if it means we get Chris freaking Paul. Dude had a chance to solidify himself as an all time great Laker side kick and played like my 16 year old sister that postseason. If we can sell NO on Bynum's shitty knees than even better, but I want CP3. 

Or Dwight.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

"Latest update says Lakers still in talks with Hornets and Rockets; as of this point, they have not backed out."


----------



## HB

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Wow Lakers get Paul but lose Gasol. I don't know if they are better though, it was their big men that gave them the edge over other teams.

*If* they get Paul that is.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Yeah, it is a bit scary how three of our potential starters have two good knees between them.......hopefully Dwight isn't to far behind.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Anyone who's saying they won't be better obviously doesn't value the playoffs...look at the way the two played.

I mean I swear to god Chris Paul himself might have done a better job in the post than Pau Gasol did last year. It was worth then pathetic. 

Pau is just not reliable. I would pick up some ugly 6 foul guy who'd rebound before I'd pass on Paul because I want to keep Pau. Come on. Odom and Bynum would have to step into the breach and you'd have to get another backup big, but it's worth trying. Makes more sense even then just standing pat and relying on Pau again.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Lakers are 100% better if they do this.

Paul
Bryant
Artest
Odom
Bynum

I mean, are you serious? 

If they get Howard too its over.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Kobe would play til he's 42 :2ti:


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



> WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
> The Hornets are near a deal to send Chris Paul to the Lakers for Andrew Bynum and Lamar Odom, league source tells Y! Sports.





> WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
> The Hornets have started to inform teams that they're sending Chris Paul to the Lakers for Bynum and Odom, league sources tell Y! Sports.


..


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

The Hornets have started to inform teams that they're sending Chris Paul to the Lakers for Bynum and Odom, league sources tell Y! Sports.

WTF!!


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I don't like that deal, they better be getting Ariza back as well.

There goes Dwight though.......


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I'm shocked a league-owned team made a lopsided trade in favor of the Lakers......


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Bogg said:


> I'm shocked a league-owned team made a lopsided trade in favor of the Lakers......


How does that favor us?

We basically gave up our size and only asset to get Howard.


----------



## TheAnswer

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Lets gooooooooo and Cp3 and Kobe, sucks now LA has a very small chance for D12.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Game3525 said:


> How does that favor us?
> 
> We basically gave up our size and only asset to get Howard.


Really? An injury-prone role player and their sixth man for a top-ten player?


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



> WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
> Correction: The proposed deal to the Lakers is Chris Paul for Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom, source says.


Wow, what a mistake Woj made :laugh:


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

****ing Woj!!


----------



## TheAnswer

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Lmao even better. Dwight trade still possible now.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Never mind, Dwight is still an option then.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Good trade for LA!

They improve and they weren't contenders as they stood before this deal.

Poor thug_immortal, losing his top 10 superstar Pau Gasol. Cheer up buddy.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I am going to miss my man, LO though.

Good memories........


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Wow if true. Pau AND Odom.

They must be getting Howard...FUUUUUUUUUUUU


----------



## Adam

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Wade County said:


> Wow if true. Pau AND Odom.
> 
> They must be getting Howard...FUUUUUUUUUUUU


I just don't see it. Bynum is going to be his usual dud self this season. Next season if you could have DeAndre Jordan (who is better than Bynum) and Gordon for Dwight then you make that trade.

I don't think the pieces are there for them to get Howard.


----------



## roux

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

rotoworld is saying its bynum and odom


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

We may have a shot, apparently GM's are high on Bynum.

It will be harder now to entice them since we don't have LO's contract anymore.


----------



## Geaux Tigers

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Im at the point where I'm ok with trading Paul despite how hard it is to lose my favorite NBA player, but I do not like this trade. I was pretty optimistic when I thought it would be Bynum, but I really liked some of the rumors involving the Clippers.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Game3525 said:


> How does that favor us?
> 
> We basically gave up our size and only asset to get Howard.


It's lopsided because the Hornets are trading for long contracts and giving up star power. They don't get picks or prospects or salary cap space. They're going to be paying two aging, second-tier players for long years. Hard to justify that when they miss the playoffs for the next few years.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

You would think that the Hornets have some plan to turn Gasol and Odom into something of more long term value. Makes no sense for them to trade for those guys unless they had more trades lined up to turn them into something more valuable down the line.


----------



## roux

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



roux2dope said:


> rotoworld is saying its bynum and odom


nevermind, saying its gasol now..... hell of a deal for the lakers


----------



## Dre

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



> Chris Mannix: Hornets have quietly checked out league wide interest in Pau last 48 hours. Called New Jersey, Nets not interested.


I meant to post that but got sidetracked

What a coup. Lakers lose size but can replace rebounding fairly easily. 

But Adam I wouldn't go as far as saying the Lakers as they were weren't contenders. The Mavericks fell back without Chandler.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



> Hornets working to finalize details on 3-team deal to send Chris Paul to Lakers, Gasol to Rockets and Odom, KMart, Scola to NO, sources say.


http://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA


----------



## Diable

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

I really have a hard time thinking the Hornets would do that deal without at least getting a half way decent pick thrown in now that I think about it. Odom and Gasol just are not what they need right now.


----------



## SWIFTSLICK

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Amazing trade for LA, solves the PG problem and gets rid of Gasoft.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Do the Rockets get vaseline too? What the hell makes them want to give up Scola and Kevin Martin for Gasol?


----------



## Adam

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Diable said:


> Do the Rockets get vaseline too? What the hell makes them want to give up Scola and Kevin Martin for Gasol?


People still don't want to believe that Gasol is not a top player anymore. Just laugh at them as long as it's not your team paying him.


----------



## TheAnswer

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Wow what are the Rockets thinking?


----------



## SWIFTSLICK

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Maybe they realize they're not going to make the playoffs with Martin. Maybe they think Gasol could help them get somewhere. 

Maybe they're wrong on both counts but who are we to argue their idiocy. The Lakers get rid of Gasol which has to help the team overall. He was non existent in the 2011 playoffs.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Update: Paul to Lakers in 3-way for Pau and Odom?*

Rockets wanting to let Terrence Williams show the world what a superstar he is.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to Lakers in 3-way for Pau and Odom?*

One thing that I find hilarious is yesterday the NBA eliminated that Durant's rip move and the next day Kevin Martin is traded.


----------



## Knick Killer

*Re: Update: Paul to Lakers in 3-way for Pau and Odom?*

What the hell is the point of being a fan of a small market team? If you do draft a star, he's just going to leave eventually with a couple other stars to make a super team. It's a ****ing joke.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Bogg said:


> I'm shocked a league-owned team made a lopsided trade in favor of the Lakers......


When are you going to admit you underestimated Bynum's trade value? When the Howard trade actually happens?


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Adam said:


> People still don't want to believe that Gasol is not a top player anymore. Just laugh at them as long as it's not your team paying him.


Either you think he's still a top player or you never did. If you let one month of bad play change your opinion you're a fickle woman.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to Lakers in 3-way for Pau and Odom?*

:2ti:

So I guess we might not have to wait 5 years after all

Apparently Demps got upset when the Lakers backed out and put Gasol in instead of Bynum. But they still got it done with Houston's help


----------



## Adam

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Jamel Irief said:


> Either you think he's still a top player or you never did. If you let one month of bad play change your opinion you're a fickle woman.


What? I said last year before Christmas that he looked like garbage and he wasn't the same player. He has declined noticeably and I think the playoffs vindicated me against a few of the fools that told me I didn't know what I was talking about.


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: Update: Paul to Lakers in 3-way for Pau and Odom?*



Knick_Killer31 said:


> What the hell is the point of being a fan of a small market team? If you do draft a star, he's just going to leave eventually with a couple other stars to make a super team. It's a ****ing joke.


Maybe you'll get lucky and the team will move


----------



## roux

*Re: Update: Paul to Lakers in 3-way for Pau and Odom?*



Knick_Killer31 said:


> What the hell is the point of being a fan of a small market team? If you do draft a star, he's just going to leave eventually with a couple other stars to make a super team. It's a ****ing joke.


tell me about it, the nba sucks for that reason


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to Lakers in 3-way for Pau and Odom?*



Knick_Killer31 said:


> What the hell is the point of being a fan of a small market team? If you do draft a star, he's just going to leave eventually with a couple other stars to make a super team. It's a ****ing joke.


Tim Duncan didn't leave San Antonio. Kevin Durant didn't leave OKC. Reggie Miller never left your Pacers.

LeBron and Paul left teams with bad owners who never got it done.


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: Update: Paul to Lakers in 3-way for Pau and Odom?*

First of all Rockets should hold onto one of those 1st round picks. Scola alone is gonna give you 3/4 of Gasol's production, why include a reliable score like Kevin Martin and tack on 2 1st rounders!? 

Second the ONLY way, and I mean under no other circumstances, the only way I make this deal is if Marc Gasol(not Nene), is officially a Rocket.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Lakers talking to Carl Landry and Josh McRoberts for the luxury taxed team MLE.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to Lakers in 3-way for Pau and Odom?*



Adam said:


> Tim Duncan didn't leave San Antonio. Kevin Durant didn't leave OKC. Reggie Miller never left your Pacers.
> 
> LeBron and Paul left teams with bad owners who never got it done.


Bingo.

You build a good team, chances your star player will stay.


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: Update: Paul to Lakers in 3-way for Pau and Odom?*

Dwight Howard for any Bynum package will make everyone forget about the Kwame for Gasol deal quick.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: Update: Paul to Lakers in 3-way for Pau and Odom?*

*My source says kevin martin is not in the package.*


----------



## Bubbles

*Re: Update: Paul to Lakers in 3-way for Pau and Odom?*

:laugh:


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to Lakers in 3-way for Pau and Odom?*

Kevin Love won't leave Minnesota :2ti:


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

LMAO...R.I.P. Kobe's Los Angeles Lakers...no threat without that insane length they had. Kobe and CP3 is nice in 2008.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Just proves this lockout was a waste of time. Superstars still get to move all over the place. Heck with the Butler, Prince and Dunleavy signings, it feels like scrubs will still keep getting big bucks. 

AS for the Lakers, thought what made them really imposing was the big front line. Guess they are really hoping they can score Dwight, but what else besides Bynum can they hope to offer Orlando? Why the heck wouldn't Orlando take Lopez and whatever the Nets can use to sweeten the deal?


----------



## Knick Killer

*Re: Update: Paul to Lakers in 3-way for Pau and Odom?*



Adam said:


> Tim Duncan didn't leave San Antonio. Kevin Durant didn't leave OKC. Reggie Miller never left your Pacers.
> 
> LeBron and Paul left teams with bad owners who never got it done.


Congratulations you named 3 players. The NBA is currently a two team league. How is that enjoyable at all? Of course it is for you seeing how your a Heat fan but thats more than likely not the case for anyone else. The season hasn't even started yet and it's already obvious which two teams will more than likely meet in the finals.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to Lakers in 3-way for Pau and Odom?*



Knick_Killer31 said:


> Congratulations you named 3 players. The NBA is currently a two team league. How is that enjoyable at all? Of course it is for you seeing how your a Heat fan but thats more than likely not the case for anyone else. The season hasn't even started yet and it's already obvious which two teams will more than likely meet in the finals.


The Lakers dont have more depth than the Grizzlies or Thunder. This isn't a foregone deal that they are making the finals. Matter of fact as the Lakers are currently built, they DO NOT want to play that Grizzlies front line.


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

better scenario than the cavs who got the chance to "swap" first rounders if they miraculously won more games than the heat. Not happy to see him go but the fact remains he was moved for still movable parts, which is key.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to Lakers in 3-way for Pau and Odom?*



Knick_Killer31 said:


> Congratulations you named 3 players. The NBA is currently a two team league. How is that enjoyable at all? Of course it is for you seeing how your a Heat fan but thats more than likely not the case for anyone else. The season hasn't even started yet and it's already obvious which two teams will more than likely meet in the finals.


Okay, you're arguing different things.

It's rare for superstar players to leave their teams in their prime during free agency. LeBron gave Cleveland seven years and they didn't satisfy him.

Second argument, it's a two team league regardless of small market or big market because the better player wins in a 7 game series. You weren't arguing this small market, big market crap after each of Tim Duncan's four championships.


----------



## ChosenFEW

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

the rich get richer



ooooh weeeee


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to Lakers in 3-way for Pau and Odom?*



HB said:


> The Lakers dont have more depth than the Grizzlies or Thunder. This isn't a foregone deal that they are making the finals. Matter of fact as the Lakers are currently built, they DO NOT want to play that Grizzlies front line.


Ha.

You think we are done wheeling and dealing?


----------



## Kidd

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Who the hell do the Lakers have down low now? Is Devin Ebanks or whatever going to have to start? :laugh:


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

I hate to say it, but if the Lakers meet the Heat in the Finals the Heat are going to absolutely destroy them.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Update: Paul to Lakers in 3-way for Pau and Odom?*

Lakers aren't hands down better than the Thunder and the Heat aren't hands down better than the bulls until we see how things develop. As is they aren't.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

They'll sign the Joe Smiths, Mikki Moores of the world and plug them in there till they get DWIGHT :laugh:


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to Lakers in 3-way for Pau and Odom?*



Jamel Irief said:


> Lakers aren't hands down better than the Thunder and the Heat aren't hands down better than the bulls until we see how things develop. As is they aren't.


The Heat are hands down better than the Bulls.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Deleted


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Brian said:


> Who the hell do the Lakers have down low now? Is Devin Ebanks or whatever going to have to start? :laugh:


Bynum is still there. He's probably better than your favorite team's down low player.

And no Ebanks won't start.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Jamel Irief said:


> Bynum is still there. He's probably better than your favorite team's down low player.
> 
> And no Ebanks won't start.


Who's your PF?


----------



## Knick Killer

*Re: Update: Paul to Lakers in 3-way for Pau and Odom?*



Adam said:


> Okay, you're arguing different things.
> 
> It's rare for superstar players to leave their teams in their prime during free agency. LeBron gave Cleveland seven years and they didn't satisfy him.
> 
> Second argument, it's a two team league regardless of small market or big market because the better player wins in a 7 game series. You weren't arguing this small market, big market crap after each of Tim Duncan's four championships.


I'm not talking about the past am I? I'm talking about now. LeBron, Bosh, Stoudamire, Anthony, Paul and probably soon to be Howard have all left their original teams in hopes of copying the Boston Celtics formula of forming a big 3 and winning a title. Thats 5 or 6 star players in the last year or two. In the past absolutely it was rare for a superstar to leave in their prime but these days its nothing new.


----------



## Kidd

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



HB said:


> Who's your PF?


:2ti:


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to Lakers in 3-way for Pau and Odom?*



Knick_Killer31 said:


> Congratulations you named 3 players. The NBA is currently a two team league. How is that enjoyable at all? Of course it is for you seeing how your a Heat fan but thats more than likely not the case for anyone else. The season hasn't even started yet and it's already obvious which two teams will more than likely meet in the finals.


A) You really didn't counter his point that it was bad ownership and management that drove those stars away

B)The Thunder could still beat these Lakers depending on what happens with LA's frontline. 

Blake Griffin seems happy playing with the Lakers' stepbrother across the hall...Brandon Roy, before injury was set to be a top 10 player in Portland for 10 years. You can even look to the collection of pieces put together in Memphis. None of them want to go anywhere and people think they could be in the WCFs.

Karl Malone and Stockton played in Utah forever. Drexler in Portland. Zo in Charlotte. LeBron would've stayed in Cleveland if Ferry had any idea what he was doing. But oh I guess these are only a couple more examples...

Sure the chips are stacked against you if you can't just flex your prestige and work a trade/entice a free agent, but that's life, there's always insurmountable advantages. 

If you have smart management you can still win with a small market/lower prestiged team.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to Lakers in 3-way for Pau and Odom?*



Knick_Killer31 said:


> I'm not talking about the past am I? I'm talking about now. LeBron, Bosh, Stoudamire, Anthony, Paul and probably soon to be Howard have all left their original teams in hopes of copying the Boston Celtics formula of forming a big 3 and winning a title. Thats 5 or 6 star players in the last year or two. In the past absolutely it was rare for a superstar to leave in their prime but these days its nothing new.


LeBron, Paul, and Bosh left terrible ownerships. Paul wants to leave and go to a good franchise and win immediately.

Amare would have stayed in Phoenix if they had paid him but their owner was cheap. New York lined up their expirings to make a run at him. Has nothing to do with small market, big market.


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: Update: Paul to Lakers in 3-way for Pau and Odom?*



Jamel Irief said:


> Lakers aren't hands down better than the Thunder and the Heat aren't hands down better than the bulls until we see how things develop. As is they aren't.


The Heat are pretty clearly better than us.

But yeah, the Lakers aren't clearly better than the Thunder, I guess. But I still have my doubts about Westbrook and Durant winning together. 

I think the Lakers are the de facto Finals team of the West since the Mavs are losing Chandler, but they'll get slaughtered in the Finals, as much as it pains me to say, because there's nothing I'd love more than to see an aging (yet capable) Kobe destroy Lebron and Wade on the big stage.


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

hornets get dragic, a pick, odom, scola, martin.... i wonder if any of them aside from martin will be on the roster before opening night


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

lets gety ready to rumbleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



HB said:


> Who's your PF?


Probably Landry or McRoberts. They aren't as good as Samaki Walker and AC Green's corpse, who cares.


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Id like to dig up the post where dre was swearing up and down paul was going to the knicks but my eyes are too blurry from the tears streaming out of them right now to see properly


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Hard to believe just last night, LA had the worst starting PG in the league......now they have the best.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Brian said:


> :2ti:


Why are you so mad? Because the Lakers will pay a forward 3 million when it would take the Nets twice that to sign the same caliber player?


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Jamel Irief said:


> Probably Landry or McRoberts. They aren't as good as Samaki Walker and AC Green's corpse, who cares.


I do...can't wait till they play the other Gasol and Z-bo


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Tooeasy said:


> Id like to dig up the post where dre was swearing up and down paul was going to the knicks but my eyes are too blurry from the tears streaming out of them right now to see properly


Don't worry he said he would bump this thread "either way"


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



HB said:


> I do...can't wait till they play the other Gasol and Z-bo


If they even keep them both you mean. Z-bo would of killed them this year even with Gasol and Odom. Marc isn't much of a challenge for Bynum.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Jamel Irief said:


> If they even keep them both you mean. Z-bo would of killed them this year even with Gasol and Odom. Marc isn't much of a challenge for Bynum.


They are keeping them. Why wouldn't they?


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

It will be interesting to see how the Lakers shore up their frontcourt, because right now they are a worse team than they were before.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



HB said:


> They are keeping them. Why wouldn't they?


Because some team will probably offer Gasol 15 million a year?


----------



## FSH

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Tooeasy said:


> hornets get dragic, a pick, odom, scola, martin.... i wonder if any of them aside from martin will be on the roster before opening night


the Hornets need to take Odom and Scola and turn them into young guys with potential


----------



## Kidd

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Jamel Irief said:


> Why are you so mad? Because the Lakers will pay a forward 3 million when it would take the Nets twice that to sign the same caliber player?


Who's mad? :whoknows:

Lakers are done once Bynum goes down again.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Jamel Irief said:


> Because some team will probably offer Gasol 15 million a year?


Heisley said he is matching all offers.


----------



## Knick Killer

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Dre said:


> A) You really didn't counter his point that it was bad ownership and management that drove those stars away
> 
> B)The Thunder could still beat these Lakers depending on what happens with LA's frontline.
> 
> Blake Griffin seems happy playing with the Lakers' stepbrother across the hall...Brandon Roy, before injury was set to be a top 10 player in Portland for 10 years. You can even look to the collection of pieces put together in Memphis. None of them want to go anywhere and people think they could be in the WCFs.
> 
> Karl Malone and Stockton played in Utah forever. Drexler in Portland. Zo in Charlotte. LeBron would've stayed in Cleveland if Ferry had any idea what he was doing. But oh I guess these are only a couple more examples...
> 
> Sure the chips are stacked against you if you can't just flex your prestige and work a trade/entice a free agent, but that's life, there's always insurmountable advantages.
> 
> If you have smart management you can still win with a small market/lower prestiged team.





Adam said:


> LeBron, Paul, and Bosh left terrible ownerships. Paul wants to leave and go to a good franchise and win immediately.
> 
> Amare would have stayed in Phoenix if they had paid him but their owner was cheap. New York lined up their expirings to make a run at him. Has nothing to do with small market, big market.


I'm not saying it's impossible to win as a small market team. It's absolutely possible but with the way things have been going these last couple of years, it's not as likely as it once was. If you think a league with two stacked teams is entertaining then good for you, I on the other hand like a little unpredictability in sports but thats just me.


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



FSH said:


> the Hornets need to take Odom and Scola and turn them into young guys with potential


absolutely, im sure there will be suitors. Hornets are still a fairly decent team with these pieces, but theres no point in staying stagnated as a borderline playoff team if they can build through this next offseasons draft.


----------



## LamarButler

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

This makes the Lakers a lot less of a threat -- went from having the best or second inside play in the league to having weak inside play. But of course everything changes if the Magic for some reason take Bynum for Dwight.


----------



## FSH

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Brian said:


> Lakers are done once Bynum goes down again.


um who says Bynum is even gonna be a Laker by the time the season starts?

They got Paul without trading the chip the Magic want for Dwight Howard i expect the Lakers to go hard after Howard now


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Grizz definitely have to match. I don't believe Heisley is that stupid, this is his chance to have the city on lock for years to come. After the run we had last season I just can't see him not bringing back the main piece he needs to bring back. If he doesn't I'll be shocked.


----------



## Geaux Tigers

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Have you seen how many players we have. All of them will. I've always liked the way Dragic and Scola played for what it's worth. Martin is going to put up A LOT of points for us. Still rather have Chris Paul, but I think it could have been worse.


----------



## Kidd

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



FSH said:


> um who says Bynum is even gonna be a Laker by the time the season starts?
> 
> They got Paul without trading the chip the Magic want for Dwight Howard i expect the Lakers to go hard after Howard now


smh if Magic give up Dwight for any kind of Bynum package


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



FSH said:


> um who says Bynum is even gonna be a Laker by the time the season starts?
> 
> They got Paul without trading the chip the Magic want for Dwight Howard i expect the Lakers to go hard after Howard now


Bynum and who are the Lakers offering to get Dwight? I mean this is one funny league so hey anything can happen, but I know for sure the Lakers do not have the type of pieces the Nets could offer for Dwight. That's if the Magic are really serious about starting over.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



HB said:


> Bynum and who are the Lakers offering to get Dwight? I mean this is one funny league so hey anything can happen, but I know for sure the Lakers do not have the type of pieces the Nets could offer for Dwight. That's if the Magic are really serious about starting over.


A third team will have to get involved, also it doesn't matter what NJ offers...if Dwight doesn't want to sign there the deal won't happen.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

I honestly think Dwight will be a Clipper. Gordon + Jordan for Dwight makes too much sense.


----------



## FSH

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



HB said:


> Bynum and who are the Lakers offering to get Dwight? I mean this is one funny league so hey anything can happen, but I know for sure the Lakers do not have the type of pieces the Nets could offer for Dwight. That's if the Magic are really serious about starting over.


Its the Lakers so who knows what kind of deal they are gonna pull out of their ass to get Howard they do it every time people doubt them as they just showed us


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Even if Marc gets overpaid I think Heisley is committed to him, even moreso than Gay. So yeah...I'd be very surprised if he wasn't a Grizzo


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Geaux Tigers said:


> Have you seen how many players we have. All of them will. I've always liked the way Dragic and Scola played for what it's worth. Martin is going to put up A LOT of points for us. Still rather have Chris Paul, but I think it could have been worse.


interestingly enough, the new lineup even without any FA signings is decent

jack/dragic
martin/belli/pondexter
odom/ariza/pondexter
scola/odom/fa
okafor/fa

Team would be ridiculously dull but would get some wins im sure.


----------



## FSH

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Adam said:


> I honestly think Dwight will be a Clipper. Gordon + Jordan for Dwight makes too much sense.


Clippers really need to offer Gordan + Jordan + Aminu + The owners first born + a Island in the bahamas to get Howard because that team needs to something to change their luck


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Game3525 said:


> A third team will have to get involved, also it doesn't matter what NJ offers...if Dwight doesn't want to sign there the deal won't happen.


Who told you Paul is signing with the Lakers either? 

Anyhoo why wouldnt Dwight want to play with Deron and with an owner willing to spend?


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Yeah, NO didn't get robed at all. I mean it isn't ideal, but it looks much better to people who are thinking about buying them.

Houston the other hand...........


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



HB said:


> Who told you Paul is signing with the Lakers either?
> 
> Anyhoo why wouldnt Dwight want to play with Deron and with an owner willing to spend?


LA has been on Paul's short list since last year, NY was his top option but LA wasn't that far behind.

Why wouldn't Dwight want to play with Kobe and CP3 on the most popular team in the league?


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*

Hb can you predict that the lakers won't win the west?


----------



## LA68

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



HB said:


> They'll sign the Joe Smiths, Mikki Moores of the world and plug them in there till they get DWIGHT :laugh:


Whomever we get for the PF, he'll never get the ball anyways. So it doesn't really matter. As long as he can pick and roll to the hole for Paul, and pull down boards on defense, that's all he has to do. 

And remember, we aren't done yet. Some of those amnesty victims and waived players will play for the min. because they are already getting paid.


----------



## FSH

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Game3525 said:


> Why wouldn't Dwight want to play with Kobe and CP3 on the most popular team in the league?


because he would rather sit in Brooklyn and play 2nd fiddle to the Knicks :laugh:


----------



## HB

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



Jamel Irief said:


> Hb can you predict that the lakers won't win the west?


LOL I can't see into the future my man.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



FSH said:


> because he would rather sit in Brooklyn and play 2nd fiddle to the Knicks :laugh:


Knicks fan!


----------



## FSH

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Game3525 said:


> Yeah, NO didn't get robed at all. I mean it isn't ideal, but it looks much better to people who are thinking about buying them.
> 
> Houston the other hand...........


They didnt get robbed but they also didnt get any good young pieces


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

We also get two TPE from this trade......nice.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Unless Dwight is coming later this is a lot to give up for Chris Paul.

Lakers will need to add some quality amnesty'd guys if they want to be favorites for the championship.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Aaaaand here comes the Chris Paul talk...*



HB said:


> LOL I can't see into the future my man.


Like that stopped you before?


----------



## Luke

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Whoever thinks that the Lakers are a worse team with Paul didn't watch the Lakers last year. Pau was fantastic for the first ten or so games, and was incredibly disappointing after that. Especially in the playoffs. Losing Odom does suck, I will admit that, but if my consolation prize is the best point guard in the world I think I'll make it through the night without crying.

Dwight is next.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

If the Lakers don't get Dwight, I still have them behind the Thunder, Mavs, and Grizzlies(pending Marc Gasol getting resigned). They have no depth at all, a 36 year old second best player, a center with bad knees, and nobody at the 4.

I mean I'd rather have Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Perkins over Paul, Kobe, Artest, Bynum


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

It will be interesting to see how Mike Brown coaches these guys incidentally. And is Kobe willing to take the sidekick role to CP3 as Kobe continues to decline? CP3 is the biggest star he's played with since Shaq. Will he get jealous if CP3 starts getting the plaudits that he used to get?

Should be interesting. Especially if they get Dwight, and Kobe becomes basically the third wheel.


----------



## LA68

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



FSH said:


> because he would rather sit in Brooklyn and play 2nd fiddle to the Knicks :laugh:


The Nets went to two straight finals and nobody in NYC cared. Nets/Clips will always be second fiddle to the older teams. You are so right.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

I have a good feeling about all of this. We just formed arguably the best backcourt of all time.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Sidekick, please Kobe is still going to be the focal point of the offense.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



futuristxen said:


> It will be interesting to see how Mike Brown coaches these guys incidentally. And is Kobe willing to take the sidekick role to CP3 as Kobe continues to decline? CP3 is the biggest star he's played with since Shaq. Will he get jealous if CP3 starts getting the plaudits that he used to get?
> 
> Should be interesting. Especially if they get Dwight, and Kobe becomes basically the third wheel.


There's no way that Kobe would be the third wheel on that team. Dwight would anchor the defense, Paul would run the offense, and Kobe would be the team's leader and first option/closer. It'd be a pretty even big three.


----------



## FSH

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Lakers also got a 8.9mil TPE in the deal


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Game3525 said:


> Sidekick, please Kobe is still going to be the focal point of the offense.


CP3 is going to be orchestrating everything and have the ball in his hands at almost all times. Kobe will have to play off CP3's brilliance, no? Or are you going to play CP3 off the ball so Kobe can run isos? God I hope so.


----------



## Basel

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

I heard we might get Okafor, too? Is that true?

I can't wait for the season to start. So ****ing excited!


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



VanillaPrice said:


> There's no way that Kobe would be the third wheel on that team. Dwight would anchor the defense, Paul would run the offense, and Kobe would be the team's leader and first option/closer. It'd be a pretty even big three.


Yeah, this isn't Miami where the roles weren't as define.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



FSH said:


> Lakers also got a 8.9mil TPE in the deal


Bynum and 2 first round picks for Howard and Turkoglu???


----------



## Luke

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

If we get Okafor, and the Magic trade goes through then this season is a wrap folks.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

The best thing about this deal so far is that the Lakers traded for CP3 AND saved money lol


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



VanillaPrice said:


> If we get Okafor, and the Magic trade goes through then this season is a wrap folks.


Not 1, not 2, not 3?


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



futuristxen said:


> CP3 is going to be orchestrating everything and have the ball in his hands at almost all times. Kobe will have to play off CP3's brilliance, no? Or are you going to play CP3 off the ball so Kobe can run isos? God I hope so.


Lets not kid ourselves, Kobe is still going to run isos.

Paul will help him a ton though, and he wouldn't have to create as many baskets for himself.


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



LA68 said:


> *Whomever we get for the PF, he'll never get the ball anyways. So it doesn't really matter.* As long as he can pick and roll to the hole for Paul, and pull down boards on defense, that's all he has to do.


I'm sorry, but this is horrible logic.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



futuristxen said:


> Not 1, not 2, not 3?


Doing my best Heated/BlackNRed impression ya dig?


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Oh I would love to see the hornets shed okafors salary in this trade, hes owed way too damn much money considering his on court production and is worthless in a rebuild project


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



LA68 said:


> The Nets went to two straight finals and nobody in NYC cared. Nets/Clips will always be second fiddle to the older teams. You are so right.


They were playing in New Jersey


----------



## Luke

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Is this official yet?


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Would be good for the Lakers to get Okafor in the deal as they need depth up front badly now. Not sure he can really play the 4 that well though. But I guess you'd have to play him there?


----------



## FSH

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Okafor is trending WW...:hano:


----------



## FSH

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



futuristxen said:


> Would be good for the Lakers to get Okafor in the deal as they need depth up front badly now. Not sure he can really play the 4 that well though. But I guess you'd have to play him there?


Its looks like they did get him


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

There is talk that Scola may be heading to LA.......now that just isn't fair.


----------



## FSH

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Game3525 said:


> There is talk that Scola may be heading to LA.......now that just isn't fair.


:wtf:


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

If you get Scola....FML


----------



## Luke

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Scola would be awesome. Pretty much Pau minus the vag/passing. And by that I mean he's a tall Euro that happens to play professional basketball.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Haha only the Lakers can do trades like this


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Houston must get more than just Gasol for Scola/Martin/Dragic...surely?


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Okafor is not in the deal


----------



## Luke

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Well Dragic is trash. But Gasol for Scola/Martin is pretty steep, I'll grant you that.


----------



## FSH

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

cant wait to see the finshed deal


----------



## LA68

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Pay Ton said:


> I'm sorry, but this is horrible logic.


Rambis, AC Green, Ivaroni, Rodman, Haslem, Oberto, Ben Wallace etc... What do these players have in common ??

They all started at PF for championship teams _and_ they were non factors on the offensive end. 

No team wins without role players. They are cheap and very productive in ways that don't have stats. Its very sound logic. :wiz:


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

shiit is rigged mane


----------



## FSH

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



VanillaPrice said:


> Well Dragic is trash. But Gasol for Scola/Martin is pretty steep, I'll grant you that.


Dont you think you should take Chris Paul off the players you dont like list?


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



VanillaPrice said:


> I have a good feeling about all of this. We just formed arguably the best backcourt of all time.


Look, I'm rooting for the Lakers because I'd really like them to beat the Heat in the Finals, but I think Laker fans are in for a rude awakening if they don't get Howard.

The Lakers now *need* Howard. They need him. If they can't put together a package for Howard, I have a feeling they eke out the West and get pretty manhandled against Heat.

Obviously Paul is great, but losing the front court length and versatility they had with Odom/Gasol, the Lakers went from wanting Howard, to absolutely needing him.

It's do or die now.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



thaKEAF said:


> shiit is rigged mane


Now now...it's not like David Stern owns the Hornets or anything...oh wait...
The Lakers make trades that if you tried them in 2k12 the computer would just laugh at you.

At least now people will have a team to hate besides the Heat.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



FSH said:


> Dont you think you should take Chris Paul off the players you dont like list?


hahaha I was literally just thinking that.

I actually liked Paul up until '08 when the Hornets turned into a (pre)tender and he almost stole Kobe's MVP. 

But I am more than willing to accept him at this point. Honestly the guy won me over in April/May anyways.


----------



## LA68

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



VanillaPrice said:


> Well Dragic is trash. But Gasol for Scola/Martin is pretty steep, I'll grant you that.


Don't forget, with that new CBA the Lakers have to dump some salary while still staying in the championship hunt. Gasol makes a lot of money and when someone is willing to take that off your hands, you sometimes have to take it. 

The Lakers sure got a lot of trade exception money to work with. Sasha's money is still able to be used too. We aren't done yet !


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



thaKEAF said:


> shiit is rigged mane


We Believe


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



futuristxen said:


> Now now...it's not like David Stern owns the Hornets or anything...oh wait...
> The Lakers make trades that if you tried them in 2k12 the computer would just laugh at you.
> 
> At least now people will have a team to hate besides the Heat.


Whatever...we have been hated for years now.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Pay Ton said:


> Look, I'm rooting for the Lakers because I'd really like them to beat the Heat in the Finals, but I think Laker fans are in for a rude awakening if they don't get Howard.
> 
> The Lakers now *need* Howard. They need him. If they can't put together a package for Howard, I have a feeling the eke out the West and get pretty manhandled against Heat.
> 
> Obviously Paul is great, but losing the front court length and versatility they had with Odom/Gasol, the Lakers went from wanting Howard, to absolutely needing him.
> 
> It's do or die now.


I would love to get Howard. Love it. We'd have arguably the best players at three positions in the entire league. But if we get Scola in this deal, we sign Landry with the MLE, and Bynum can put together a healthy season then I won't be afriad of the Heat.

Why would the Heat man handle us? They have no low post threat and I'd rather have Bynum/Scola over Bosh/Joel Anthony anyday. I suppose Wade/LeBron is a slightly, slightly more talented duo, but Kobe/Paul compliment eachother better (to an extent) and I think that it would be a wash. It's sure to be a very exciting season, but I'm feeling pretty confident at this point.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

God damnit, why can't we for once be the team that gets the star instead of helping facilitate another team to get one!


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



OneBadLT123 said:


> God damnit, why can't we for once be the team that gets the star instead of helping facilitate another team to get one!


You guys did get T-Mac........


----------



## Kneejoh

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Hate it unless we get Dwight. Personally I thought the team was good enough to win with just small tinkering like a Baron Davis signing or something similar. This is an overhaul and I DON"T LIKE IT. It's hard for me to think from a basketball standpoint right now as I really can't stand that 2 of my 3 favorite players were just traded. Goodbye Pau and Lamar


----------



## LA68

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Pay Ton said:


> The Lakers now *need* Howard. They need him. If they can't put together a package for Howard, I have a feeling the eke out the West and get pretty manhandled against Heat.


You got it a little backwards there. There was a time when the Magic could have gotten Odom and Bynum for Howard. Now, that deal is gone. Smith is dragging his feet on this. He know Howard is leaving one way or the other. 

What's the best deal the Magic can get for him now ? B. Lopez and Outlaw ??LOL . The Laker deal _was_ the best out there. And he let it slip through his hands. Now its _Noah and Boozer ??_ :rofl2:

The Lakers as they are may not be the favorites but, they will compete.The Magic are the ones in a do or die position. If they get garbage for Howard, they are set back for maybe a decade !


----------



## Luke

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Magic should take Bynum and Luke Walton for Dwight and Brandon Bass. Thanks.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

You know, if you look at the same folks predicting their team will be in the finals again, they pretty much said the same last year. I mean really good deal, don't know if there will be more to it, but as is, what makes you think this team can beat OKC or Mem? Lakers fans overlook everyone till they get their ass handed to them.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Now that Tyson is leaving the Mavs for the Knicks I like our chances to get back to the finals even more.


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

The Heat have no low post threat, but they have Lebron and Wade who can absolutely live in the paint.

Even with Bynum, it would be hell for the Lakers to patrol the paint against a driving duo of Wade/Lebron.

The Lakers frontcourt length/versatility was where they had the definitive edge against the Heat. They lost that.

I don't think they've gotten clearly better either. I think they've dismounted a leg to build an arm. 

It depends on what they do after this, since I'm sure they're not finished, but still, they've got a ways to go.


----------



## LA68

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



VanillaPrice said:


> Magic should take Bynum and Luke Walton for Dwight and Brandon Bass. Thanks.


 :2ti:

Throw in Caracter and they throw in Ryan Anderson ! 

That's what I mean. For every day that goes by, the deal gets worse.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



HB said:


> You know, if you look at the same folks predicting their team will be in the finals again, they pretty much said the same last year. I mean really good deal, don't know if there will be more to it, but as is, what makes you think this team can beat OKC or Mem? Lakers fans overlook everyone till they get their ass handed to them.


Are these the same people that picked them to make it in 2010, 2009 and 2008? I don't think anyone will pick Memphis to make the finals, and Memphis fans better hope YOU don't.


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

:2ti:


----------



## LA68

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



OneBadLT123 said:


> God damnit, why can't we for once be the team that gets the star instead of helping facilitate another team to get one!


Isn't this the franchise who traded for Thabeet ??


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

This isn't a good trade unless they get Dwight.

And what the hell is Houston doing.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Jamel Irief said:


> Are these the same people that picked them to make it in 2010, 2009 and 2008? I don't think anyone will pick Memphis to make the finals, and Memphis fans better hope YOU don't.


Why not? I mean okay lets say Memphis doesn't make it to the finals (P.s. MemphisX already mentioned in the other thread he thinks they are finals good), but what's stopping OKC? Age? Experience? I suppose Durant and co. are just supposed to keep toiling in the West.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

I just dont know what to think anymore. **** this league, **** Daryl Morey. Dude was bad ass at first but now he's losing his mind these last 2 years.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



HB said:


> You know, if you look at the same folks predicting their team will be in the finals again, they pretty much said the same last year. I mean really good deal, don't know if there will be more to it, but as is, what makes you think this team can beat OKC or Mem? Lakers fans overlook everyone till they get their ass handed to them.


Is the Archivist paying you for your reverse jinx services? At least tell me the Heat aren't going to win the title.


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Who is the Rockets SG or C? And who's on their bench? :2ti:


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Adam said:


> Is the Archivist paying you for your reverse jinx services? At least tell me the Heat aren't going to win the title.


Who's the Archivist?

P.s. I hated on the Heat last year and Jamel's favorite team too, IT WORKED!


----------



## Blue

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Why would Orlando want Bynum? His contract is the same length as Dwight, and plus he is damaged goods. Lakers dont have anything apealing to give Orlando. id rather take our chances in free agency and get nothing, then take on Bynum.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Blu said:


> Why would Orlando want Bynum? His contract is the same length as Dwight, and plus he is damaged goods.


Exactly, he's perfect for you guys.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



thaKEAF said:


> Who is the Rockets SG or C? And who's on their bench? :2ti:


who the **** knows.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Lol Rockets are a pretty sad story.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Blu said:


> Why would Orlando want Bynum? His contract is the same length as Dwight, and plus he is damaged goods. Lakers dont have anything apealing to give Orlando. id rather take our chances in free agency and get nothing, then take on Bynum.


Bynum has potential to be a 20-10 and if he doesn't pan out then he is gone. It is a high reward, low risk sort of thing.

It is beside the point anyway, the Magic don't have any leverage or control in this.


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Thabust
Gasol
Ex Grizz
Ex Grizz
Lowry


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Floods said:


> Lol Rockets are a pretty sad story.


Ever since Rudy Gay fell into their laps on draft night they've done nothing but make the wrong decisions since.


----------



## LA68

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Blu said:


> Why would Orlando want Bynum? His contract is the same length as Dwight, and plus he is damaged goods. Lakers dont have anything apealing to give Orlando. id rather take our chances in free agency and * get nothing *, then take on Bynum.


Nobody wants to be Cleveland. Its not Howard or Bynum. Its Bynum or nobody. Isn't JRich a FA also ? 

You think Magic fans are into Orton, Bass, Hedo, Reddick, Nelson ?? Or something like that ?


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



thaKEAF said:


> Thabust
> Gasol
> Ex Grizz
> Ex Grizz
> Lowry


It's funny because they're all ex-Grizz.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

I would think the franchises resentment over losing Shaq to the Lakers, might at least give them pause about trading Dwight to them. But who knows? At this point I'm certain a lot of teams are probably ringing them just to keep the Lakers from getting Howard.

With the way their team is set up, it might even just be best for them to let Dwight walk, amnesty Arenas and then stretch clause Hedo, and start rebuilding. 

Also that T'wolves pick from the clippers would be probably the best piece anyone could offer the Magic next year. But would the Clips take Howard even if he didn't agree to resign there? Howard/Griffin on one team, Paul/Kobe on the other would be a great rivalry

If the CLippers offered Gordon, the Wolves Pick, and Aminu for Dwight that's the deal to do if you are Orlando right?

Don't know why I'm even thinking about it though. Howard is a lock for LA. This is how things are done in the NBA.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



> NBA owners have pushed commissioner David Stern to kill the deal sending Chris Paul to the Los Angeles Lakers, sources tell Y! Sports


. - Woj

****ing Stern letting this deal happen...smh


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



> WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
> NBA owners have pushed commissioner David Stern to kill the deal sending Chris Paul to the Los Angeles Lakers, sources tell Y! Sports.


uh oh


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



> Owners were irate in Board of Governors meeting with Stern, livid that the league-owned Hornets were allowed to make Paul deal, sources say.


 - Woj

Your new CBA at work. :laugh:


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



thaKEAF said:


> Thabust
> Gasol
> Ex Grizz
> Ex Grizz
> Lowry


The Rockets are like alternate universe Grizzlies


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Lol at the tweet and the dumbass owners.



HB said:


> ****ing Stern letting this deal happen...smh


Yeah, ****ing Stern letting three consenting parties make their deal. What a poophead.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Adam said:


> Ever since Rudy Gay fell into their laps on draft night they've done nothing but make the wrong decisions since.


Ehh the Artest deal was legit.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Floods said:


> Lol at the tweet and the dumbass owners.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, ****ing Stern letting three consenting parties make their deal. What a poophead.


It looks bad when a league owned team trades a marquee player to a team that many think the league favors. Its not just bad, its stupid. Plus if you look at the merits of this deal, the Hornets and Rockets look bad.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Wow. If this deal gets killed, what a ****ing crazy ass night. I don't blame the other owners. That trade was a joke, especially considering that the NBA owns the Hornets.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

You better believe the Knicks are the team bitching the most. This is the franchise (same ownership) that lobbied Stern to kill Miami's Juwon Howard deal back in the '90's.

Zero doubt in my mind that the Knicks are the ones trying to kill this deal.


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

ESPN is saying deal is on hold now.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

No way this deal gets overturned. Talent wise, it's fair. And can you imagine how pissed the Hornets brass would be if David Stern says, "Sorry I can't let you run your own team. Everyone hates the Lakers so I'm not letting this happen. Trade him to a less popular team for a worse package."

Yeah...that ain't happening.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

If Stern was corrupted, he'd be sending Paul to New York, not the Lakers.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Adam said:


> Is the Archivist paying you for your reverse jinx services? At least tell me the Heat aren't going to win the title.


HB in 2009: "The Cavs will sweep the Magic, they are that good!"

hobojoe puts that quote in his signature

HB midway through the first quarter of game 1: "Someone tell hobojoe to change his sig before he looks stupid!"

HB in 2010: "The Lakers aren't the same team, they have no shot to repeat."

Also HB in 2010: "Magic sweep! How about that?"

Of course last year he refused to make predicitions because of that. I kept trying to get him to pick the Lakers not to win and he was telling me he didn't know what will happen.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

You know New York and Cuban are the two leading the charge.

What a bunch of babies.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

:laugh:

And that's why he is called the Archivist. I bet you his fingers are moving faster than he is thinking right now. Just copying and pasting what is being said. This board needs you Jamel AKA Archivist


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Floods said:


> If Stern was corrupted, he'd be sending Paul to New York, not the Lakers.


What's the difference?


----------



## 29380

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



> The NBA is now pushing New Orleans GM Dell Demps to pull the plug on the trade and keep Chris Paul, league sources tell Y! Sports.


https://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



HB said:


> What's the difference?


We actually have asset.....NY doesn't.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Wow, the NBA in trying to not seem corrupt acts in a way that is truly corrupt. How pathetic.


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Putting this deal on hold just shows how much of a mess this league is in. 

Seems like there's no order.

What a joke.


----------



## Luke

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

This deal better go down.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



HB said:


> What's the difference?


That was a joke. Sort of.

This is a legit deal. If it is nixed because the owners are little bitches who couldn't pony up for him themselves, then the league actually would look bad.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



VanillaPrice said:


> This deal better go down.


Don't be surprised if it doesn't. The Knicks got Stern to kill Miami's Juwon Howard deal back in the day. This is so pathetic.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



> ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
> One source close to the three-team Chris Paul trade talks just told ESPN.com: "The deal is off."


Wow..


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Seriously if the Clippers and Warriors had just ponied up Gordon and Curry, we wouldn't be having this discussion.


----------



## Kidd

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

:laugh:


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

This is some bullshit!! Pau is an Allstar big and Lamar is a 6th Man of the year. The deal is fair!


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

:laugh:


> RT @ESPNSteinLine: One source close to the three-team Chris Paul trade talks just told http://ESPN.com: "The deal is off."


WE BELIEVE!


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

This is complete bullshit, I really want to see people defend this.

Now New Orleans get nothing when Paul signs with NY next year.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> This is some bullshit!! Pau is an Allstar big and Lamar is a 6th Man of the year. The deal is fair!


And even if it wasn't 'fair', who cares. Stupider trades have been agreed to. If the Hornets and Rockets are dumb enough to agree to the deal, that's their problem, not the league's.

There's nothing corrupt about a competent franchise doing business.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



> The NBA has killed the proposed deal to send Chris Paul to the Los Angeles Lakers, league sources tell Yahoo! Sports.


 - Woj

ARCHIVIST....Archive this! 

:laugh:


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

How long has the NBA owned the Hornets? Haven't they done deals since they owned them?


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Floods said:


> And even if it wasn't 'fair', who cares. Stupider trades have been agreed to. If the Hornets and Rockets are dumb enough to agree to the deal, that's their problem, not the league's.
> 
> There's nothing corrupt about a competent franchise doing business.


Yeah, the ironic twist is that the true corruption comes from the NBA being lobbied by a team with a direct interest in signing Chris Paul.

It's no different than when New York got Miami's perfectly legal signing of Howard rescinded by Stern, and nobody wept for us when the flawed roster we were left with lost to New York in the playoffs in the future. We needed that mid-range offensive game and could have even won a championship if that deal went through.

Welcome to the NBA, where corruption happens.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



> WoW


*http://twitter.com/#!/CP3*

:2ti:


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Can't say I ever expected to see the Lakers become victims of NBA corruption.


----------



## TheAnswer

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

WHAT THE ****? I'm a Knicks fan but **** them if they're the reason this didn't go down.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

The Rich Also Cry.....:laugh: I haven't laughed this hard in a long time. One guy said they had the worst starting pg in the league last night then got the best....well I guess its back to reality :laugh:


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/losangeles/play?s=la

Lamar Odom is on Stephen A's show literally sounding like he's crying :2ti:


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Lol @ ESPN's breaking news thing saying the deal has 'hit a snag'.


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

God, I hate David Stern.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Wow, this league is insane :laugh:

The deal really isnt even that bad.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



thaKEAF said:


> http://espn.go.com/espnradio/losangeles/play?s=la
> 
> Lamar Odom is on Stephen A's show literally sounding like he's crying :2ti:


Damn, how awkward will it be at Lakers camp tomorrow :laugh:


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Khloe is ****ing happy......celebration in the Kardashian household tonight


----------



## Kidd

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



HB said:


> :laugh:
> 
> And that's why he is called the Archivist. I bet you his fingers are moving faster than he is thinking right now. Just copying and pasting what is being said. This board needs you Jamel AKA Archivist


Copying and pasting is a waste of time, I just memorize.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Wade County said:


> Wow, this league is insane :laugh:
> 
> The deal really isnt even that bad.


It isn't.

There have been far more lop-sided trades then this.

Seriously, I wonder which owners were bitching the most about this, the Knicks are a given, I bet Boston and Cuban were whining as well.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

^ add in the small market teams, and bingo.

Hornets would've come out of that with a decent little squad, could've been a playoff contender. Plus some 1st rounders too.

What else do you want when your Superstar wants out?


----------



## LA68

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Game3525 said:


> It isn't.
> 
> There have been far more lop-sided trades then this.
> 
> Seriously, I wonder which owners were bitching the most about this, the Knicks are a given, I bet Boston and Cuban were whiny as well.


Way back when Don Nelson was with Gst, he pulled something like this on a deal that was gonna help the lakers. He called the other team as asked them "Do you really want to help the Lakers ??" And the deal was called off.

But, this isn't over yet. Watch and see.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Sounds like some sort of Fantasy Basketball deal. All the other owners are angry and are asking for a veto


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Wade County said:


> ^ add in the small market teams, and bingo.
> 
> Hornets would've come out of that with a decent little squad, could've been a playoff contender. Plus some 1st rounders too.
> 
> What else do you want when your Superstar wants out?


They are not making the playoffs in the West with that squad. Plus why is it so far fetched to think that pretty much every owner in the West is against this deal? If you are a Memphis, OKC, Dalllas or heck even Clippers owner, why in the world do you want this to go down, talk less the Knicks and Celtics.


----------



## Wilmatic2

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

So the deal is off? Any explanation as to why?


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

If New York gets Chris Paul on some sort of trade, fans are going to be pissed.

And rightfully so.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

What a joke. Any and all NBA owners who protested this are pathetic.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



HB said:


> Just proves this lockout was a waste of time. Superstars still get to move all over the place. Heck with the Butler, Prince and Dunleavy signings, it feels like scrubs will still keep getting big bucks.
> 
> AS for the Lakers, thought what made them really imposing was the big front line. Guess they are really hoping they can score Dwight, but what else besides Bynum can they hope to offer Orlando? Why the heck wouldn't Orlando take Lopez and whatever the Nets can use to sweeten the deal?





HB said:


> The Lakers dont have more depth than the Grizzlies or Thunder. This isn't a foregone deal that they are making the finals. Matter of fact as the Lakers are currently built, they DO NOT want to play that Grizzlies front line.





HB said:


> Who's your PF?


Isn't it ironic that the guys who claimed this was a bad trade for the Lakers also seem to be the happiest if it gets cancelled?


----------



## Vuchato

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Pay Ton said:


> If New York gets Chris Paul on some sort of trade, fans are going to be pissed.
> 
> And rightfully so.


Yeah, I'm guessing Paul's probably going to be stuck on New Orleans until a new owner buys the team now


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



HB said:


> They are not making the playoffs in the West with that squad. Plus why is it so far fetched to think that pretty much every owner in the West is against this deal? If you are a Memphis, OKC, Dalllas or heck even Clippers owner, why in the world do you want this to go down, talk less the Knicks and Celtics.


It isn't farfetched, it just stupid and short sighted.

Paul is going to play in a big market ether this year or next year and there isn't a damn thing they can do about it.


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Jamel Irief said:


> Isn't it ironic that the guys who claimed this was a bad trade for the Lakers also seem to be the happiest if it gets cancelled?


Not true.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Jamel Irief said:


> Isn't it ironic that the guys who claimed this was a bad trade for the Lakers also seem to be the happiest if it gets cancelled?


Well it just means there wont be any Kobe-CP3-Dwight super team happening. So yes, I am ****ing ecstatic.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Pay Ton said:


> Not true.


Same, I thought this was a lateral move, barring a Dwight trade to follow it.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

ESPN are now saying that certain teams are still in the mix for Paul.

GTFO with that BULLSHIT!


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

New York will have cap space next summer and Paul has already come out and said he wants to sign with New York. New Orleans can't trade him to another team besides the Lakers because he won't sign with them.

Stern blocking this trade only benefits New York and hurts New Orleans because this is the only deal they can make. Except for a deal with New York. This is serious collusion and there should be no doubt New York lobbied Stern to kill this deal as they're the ones with the biggest motive.




HB said:


> Well it just means there wont be any Kobe-CP3-Dwight super team happening. So yes, I am ****ing ecstatic.


You realize if this deal doesn't go through New York can easily get CP3 and Dwight in New York next summer because of the amnesty rule?


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



> WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
> All along, the league office had allowed the Hornets to negotiate the Chris Paul trade without interference, sources said. And then, this.


Such bullshit.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



HB said:


> Well it just means there wont be any Kobe-CP3-Dwight super team happening. So yes, I am ****ing ecstatic.


And now the Nets will lose by 30 points in their next meeting, instead of 40.

I can see why you're thrilled.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

At least Pau and Lamar know they're being shopped now.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Floods said:


> And now the Nets will lose by 30 points in their next meeting, instead of 40.
> 
> I can see why you're thrilled.


Its okay, Nets should be involved in the Dwight sweepstakes. Just hope they don't get him, new beast in the Atlantic.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



HB said:


> Its okay, Nets should be involved in the Dwight sweepstakes. Just hope they don't get him, new beast in the Atlantic.


And 3rd best team in the conference, at most. Unless Paul ends up a Knick.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Floods said:


> And 3rd best team in the conference, at most. Unless Paul ends up a Knick.


You are factoring the Geriatrics into the equation?


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Adam said:


> New York will have cap space next summer and Paul has already come out and said he wants to sign with New York. New Orleans can't trade him to another team besides the Lakers because he won't sign with them.
> 
> Stern blocking this trade only benefits New York and hurts New Orleans because this is the only deal they can make. Except for a deal with New York. This is serious collusion and there should be no doubt New York lobbied Stern to kill this deal as they're the ones with the biggest motive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You realize if this deal doesn't go through New York can easily get CP3 and Dwight in New York next summer because of the amnesty rule?



Yup, you know NY was leading the charge in all this.

**** them.


----------



## PD

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

I am not sure why they blocked that trade. I think that trade addressed everyone's needs unlike the Paul Gasol-to the Lakers trade 3 years ago.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



HB said:


> You are factoring the Geriatrics into the equation?


Are you retarded?

Heat. Bulls. Knicks if the collusion pays off.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Adam said:


> New York will have cap space next summer and Paul has already come out and said he wants to sign with New York. *New Orleans can't trade him to another team besides the Lakers because he won't sign with them.*
> 
> Stern blocking this trade only benefits New York and hurts New Orleans because this is the only deal they can make. Except for a deal with New York. This is serious collusion and there should be no doubt New York lobbied Stern to kill this deal as they're the ones with the biggest motive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You realize if this deal doesn't go through New York can easily get CP3 and Dwight in New York next summer because of the amnesty rule?


Magic would probably gut the team to get Chris Paul, but idk if we have any pieces they would want...


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Riley quote after the 1996 Juwan Howard debacle


> Riley was mostly upset by the league, once telling ESPN, ”I spent the weekend at my proctologist’s trying to remove the N.B.A.’s 17-foot pole out of my rear end.”


Dell Demps now knows the feeling.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Blu said:


> Magic would probably gut the team to get Chris Paul, but idk if we have any pieces they would want...


It doesn't matter what they want. Chris Paul won't sign with the Magic. He has said he will only sign with New York. Just like Carmelo said last year, remember how that went?

LA is probably the only other team he was willing to sign with if traded to because it's the Lakers. That's why it makes no sense for the league to block this deal. It's one of only two deals New Orleans can make: LA or New York.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

The funniest part about the NBA voiding this trade is that this was a BAD deal for the Lakers.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

And New York can give the Hornets absolutely nothing.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Floods said:


> Are you retarded?


Have you not been reading his posts?


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Floods said:


> And New York can give the Hornets absolutely nothing.


That what gets me.

The man is going to walk away in 8 months and they get nothing, so what are the owners really defending?


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

It just makes no sense. New Orleans can only trade him to LA or New York. If you block this trade you're saying that you're helping New York.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> The funniest part about the NBA voiding this trade is that this was a BAD deal for the Lakers.


I actually agree. Of all the players I want to see play with CP3, Kobe isn't one of them. They clash, and they gut their frontcourt to get him. 

Put Paul with Amare, Dwight, Dirk, or any top pick and roll big man. Not with a ball dominating scoring guard.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Floods said:


> Are you retarded?
> 
> Heat. Bulls. Knicks if the collusion pays off.


My bad thought you were talking about the Atlantic and the Knicks, Celts being better than the Nets.


----------



## Blue

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Adam said:


> It doesn't matter what they want. Chris Paul won't sign with the Magic. He has said he will only sign with New York. Just like Carmelo said last year, remember how that went?
> 
> LA is probably the only other team he was willing to sign with if traded to because it's the Lakers. That's why it makes no sense for the league to block this deal. It's one of only two deals New Orleans can make: LA or New York.


It does matter, because Paul couldnt find anyone better to play with than Dwight. If Magic could land Paul, it would be awfully difficult for both of them to just walk away, unless their season together was just a disaster.With that said, i dont think Orlando even has the pieces to interest N.O., but if it were possible for them 2 to play together i think they would both stay even if that happened to be in Orlando.


----------



## Duck

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

How exactly is Chris Paul going to get to NYC after they have Amare, Melo and Chandler locked up?


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Duck34234 said:


> How exactly is Chris Paul going to get to NYC after they have Amare, Melo and Chandler locked up?


They wont...pipe dream


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

This is completely insane. What a night.


----------



## Duck

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

I can only imagine that the chris paul deal was in effect a power play with the Magic, who were, according to reports, not even open to discussing a dwight trade. Dwight would not want to play anywhere else but the Lakers, he'd tell the Magic that, and then tell them they can either trade for Andrew Bynum or he'll walk. Amnesty Artest, decline team option on Bynum, and then Dwight and Paul split the available cap room next season.


----------



## Diable

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

I can see why the teams in the West would be upset. Cuban has already bitched about the Landry deal last year, because the Hornets took on salary. Of course this is about as good of a deal as the Hornets could have expected to get unless the Clippers decide that they have the balls to do a Paul trade. I would assume that anyone who traded for Paul and offered him a chance to win would have a great shot at keeping him. The knicks really aren't that great of a situation.

I don't think the league can really block the deal honestly, although if the Rockets have any fans they could lynch Morey and that might stop it.


----------



## Duck

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

How funny would it be if the Clips offered Gordon and got him?

Then used their cap space to sign Dwight.

LAKERS FANS TROLLED.


----------



## PD

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



HB said:


> They wont...pipe dream



NY is now on the phone trying to trade Amare for Paul


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

The funny thing is, the team getting reamed in all this was Houston. LA was going to pull off a coup, but the Hornets were actually going to get a pretty good return.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Bogg said:


> The funny thing is, the team getting reamed in all this was Houston. LA was going to pull off a coup, but the Hornets were actually going to get a pretty good return.


Yup, Scola, Odom, Kevin Martin and Goran Dragic plus picks is pretty damn good. It was definitely more about him going to the Lakers than it was what the Hornets were getting in return.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

This would just be unreal. LA wasn't even necessarily getting better, they were just acquiring a big name so all these retarded owners freaked out.

This is the most unfair to the Hornets management. Chris Paul doesn't want to be there, so they are entitled to trade him for the best offer they can get. Now you're telling them that they're not allowed to trade him to certain teams? That's complete bull...

This would just be a huge embarrassment for Stern and the NBA to block this. Really, is it the right thing to do? I know I'm biased, but I don't think so. This just strikes me as akin to a bunch of babies saying, "Daddy no! Don't let them do it!" There is really no good reason for blocking this deal other than anti-Lakers bias, which in essence, was a large part of the reason for the lockout anyway.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



> usat_jzillgitt Jeff Zillgitt
> NBA spokesman Mike Bass: "It's not true that owners killed the deal. The League office declined to make the trade for basketball reasons."


Dont buy it.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



> From NBA source: "Not true that owners killed the deal. League office declined to make the trade for basketball reasons."


 - Mike Bresnahan

I know its just too easy to blame the Knicks for this but...might just want to get all the facts first


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Damian Necronamous said:


> This would just be unreal. LA wasn't even necessarily getting better, they were just acquiring a big name so all these retarded owners freaked out.
> 
> This is the most unfair to the Hornets management. Chris Paul doesn't want to be there, so they are entitled to trade him for the best offer they can get. Now you're telling them that they're not allowed to trade him to certain teams? That's complete bull...
> 
> This would just be a huge embarrassment for Stern and the NBA to block this. Really, is it the right thing to do? I know I'm biased, but I don't think so. This just strikes me as akin to a bunch of babies saying, "Daddy no! Don't let them do it!" There is really no good reason for blocking this deal other than anti-Lakers bias, which in essence, was a large part of the reason for the lockout anyway.


LA was definitely getting better. They were trading a top-twenty guy and getting a top-ten guy in return. It was Houston that was acting completely illogically, which is why it's funny the league blocked this. It was a horribly lopsided trade, but the Lakers and Hornets were the ones making out well. The third party that pushed all this was the one that was making an idiotic move, not the league-owned team.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Basketball reasons? The deal actually makes the Hornets better, LOL


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

This is really hurting the Hornets in the long run. Nobody is going there in free agency, and Paul is out next year. At least this trade will keep 2-3 good to very good players on the roster for awhile, with hope to resign them and put together a formidable team. 

If they aren't allowed to trade their only valuable piece before he leaves for nothing, well then RIP. Should have never left OKC!


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Wade2Bosh said:


> Dont buy it.


Yeah, that is a load of crap.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

**** David Stern


----------



## Diable

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

I wonder what it says in the new CBA about something like this. The NBA should have sold the team to Gary Chouest before they put themselves in this sort of conflict of interest. Paul will certainly go to the NBAPA with this and they will certainly file a complaint with the league and perhaps some federal agency (NLRB I would guess). I would not think that you could single out Paul for being a really good basketball player, although it would be fine with me if he wound up going somewhere else.


----------



## Kidd

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

"Basketball reasons"?


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Bogg said:


> LA was definitely getting better. They were trading a top-twenty guy and getting a top-ten guy in return. It was Houston that was acting completely illogically, which is why it's funny the league blocked this. It was a horribly lopsided trade, but the Lakers and Hornets were the ones making out well. The third party that pushed all this was the one that was making an idiotic move, not the league-owned team.


Dude we were trading two premiere big men for one premiere small man. Yes, Chris Paul is the best player in the deal, but trading Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom for him doesn't necessarily make the Lakers better. Who's their starting 4 if the deal goes through? The oft-injured Bynum becomes more important...if he goes down then they're screwed. They're not for sure better with this deal, they're just not. As a Lakers fan, the reason it's so exciting is because we'd get the guy who Kobe passes the torch to, and it makes Kobe/Paul/Dwight that much more fathomable.

Yeah, I do agree that it's questionable on Houston's behalf.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Brian said:


> "Basketball reasons"?


Chris Broussard making a great point now - the guys who made the trade for New Orleans are the guys who make the basketball decisions. The owners are supposed to make the financial decisions. 

Chris Paul not showing up to camp tomorrow, and a legal battle about to ensue...what a stupid can of worms the NBA just opened.


----------



## Mrs. Thang

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

I think this is less about the fairness of the deal and more about the other owners making a stand against players trying to force their way out of town. If Paul is going to leave New Orleans, he's going to have to take the 20+ million dollar paycut to do it.

The other owners have every right to veto this trade. They cut the checks for the team. Nobody is going to a Hornets game this year to watch Kevin Martin and Lamar Kardashian. The NBA needs to get this team sold in a hurry so we don't have conflicts of interest like this.


----------



## Duck

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

The NBA owning the Hornets was morale hazard waiting to happen. David Stern is effectively the owner of the Hornets.


----------



## Duck

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Damian Necronamous said:


> Chris Broussard making a great point now - the guys who made the trade for New Orleans are the guys who make the basketball decisions. The owners are supposed to make the financial decisions.
> 
> Chris Paul not showing up to camp tomorrow, and a legal battle about to ensue...what a stupid can of worms the NBA just opened.


What kind of legal battle will ensue? The league owns the Hornets and can do what they see fit with them.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

You know what makes this even more depressing.

When training camp begins tomorrow, Derek Fisher will be the Lakers starting PG.

My God...............


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Damian Necronamous said:


> Dude we were trading two premiere big men for one premiere small man. Yes, Chris Paul is the best player in the deal, but trading Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom for him doesn't necessarily make the Lakers better. Who's their starting 4 if the deal goes through? The oft-injured Bynum becomes more important...if he goes down then they're screwed. They're not for sure better with this deal, they're just not. As a Lakers fan, the reason it's so exciting is because we'd get the guy who Kobe passes the torch to, and it makes Kobe/Paul/Dwight that much more fathomable.


They were trading a sidekick and bench player for a franchise guy. There's _maybe_ a dozen franchise guys in the league, but there's plenty of sidekicks and dozen*s* of sixth men floating around. In a league where so much is determined by who your top 2 to 3 guys are, the team getting the best player almost always wins.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Mrs. Thang said:


> I think this is less about the fairness of the deal and more about the other owners making a stand against players trying to force their way out of town. If Paul is going to leave New Orleans, he's going to have to take the 20+ million dollar paycut to do it.
> 
> The other owners have every right to veto this trade. They cut the checks for the team. Nobody is going to a Hornets game this year to watch Kevin Martin and Lamar Kardashian. The NBA needs to get this team sold in a hurry so we don't have conflicts of interest like this.


That nonsense.

The Hornets have to do what is in the best interest for them, and now they are going to lose Paul for nothing.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Game3525 said:


> That nonsense.
> 
> The Hornets have to do what is in the best interest for them, *and now they are going to lose Paul for nothing.*


Not true, NO is going to get other offers for him. Worst case, they get either Melo/Amare or Rondo, Green+picks. The Houston package was actually really good, all things considered, but it's not an all-or-nothing situation.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Bogg said:


> Not true, NO is going to get other offers for him. Worst case, they get either Melo/Amare or Rondo, Green+picks. The Houston package was actually really good, all things considered, but it's not an all-or-nothing situation.


But those deals aren't out there. Like the Boston one. Paul killed it supposedly because he would not agree to sign an extension so Ainge backed out. Nobody is going to trade for him just to see him walk.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

On one hand, glad LA is not getting another star. On other, I would've been fine cuz it would've made them worse. This deal just made no sense for them or really anyone other than NO getting any talent they can.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

No one remembers I guess, but in this thread I said that this might happen. That a deal might be able to happen since all of the owners own the team. So yes, it wouldn't be a shock to see it voided.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Bogg said:


> Not true, NO is going to get other offers for him. Worst case, they get either Melo/Amare or Rondo, Green+picks. The Houston package was actually really good, all things considered, but it's not an all-or-nothing situation.


Trading in the NBA is not as easy as it is on RealGM. Are NBA GM's going to want to go through the trouble of putting together offers for Paul and negotiating, knowing if the deal is _too_ good or whatever, it'll just be 86'ed? 

I think this will scare owners off a bit.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



> "The owners half-pushed this through, and Stern took it the rest of the way," a league source involved in nixed trade told Y! Sports.
> 
> (More) "In the end, David didn’t like that the players were dictating where they wanted to go," source says.


 - Woj

Dwight....your turn.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Duck34234 said:


> What kind of legal battle will ensue? The league owns the Hornets and can do what they see fit with them.


Not my opinion cupcake, it's fact. ESPN Bottomline sucka!


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



> adbrandt Andrew Brandt
> The NBA just sent Kris Humphries back to Kim Kardashian.


:laugh:


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Adam said:


> But those deals aren't out there. Like the Boston one. Paul killed it supposedly because he would not agree to sign an extension so Ainge backed out. Nobody is going to trade for him just to see him walk.


Boston's put it out in the media that they're willing to trade for Paul with no guarantee. Worst case scenario, Paul walks and they cleared the cap space of a guy you can't build around, best case they got a franchise guy. Rondo and Green(plus a pick) is _absolutely_ out there whenever the Hornets want it.



Sir Patchwork said:


> Trading in the NBA is not as easy as it is on RealGM. Are NBA GM's going to want to go through the trouble of putting together offers for Paul and negotiating, knowing if the deal is too good or whatever, it'll just be 86'ed?
> 
> I think this will scare owners off a bit.


The deal got nixed because it left the door open for Otis Smith's dumb self to swap Dwight for Bynum, and nobody outside of the Lakers organization wanted to see them reload off the backs of two miserably lopsided deals. It just so happened that Houston offered itself up as the sacrificial.........idiots?......in this scenario, instead of the Hornets. This trade being killed, while certainly shady, doesn't make Paul unmovable.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



> In the end, David didn’t like that the players were dictating where they wanted to go.


The plantation owner at work.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Stern is full of shit.

Blocking this trade is a lateral move at best by the NBA.


----------



## Mrs. Thang

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

The deal for the Hornets was good relative to what most teams get after losing a superstar, but it did not make them a 'good' team. None of the principals involved in the deal were younger than Chris Paul. This deal likely took New Orleans from being a playoff team to not being a playoff team. I think Lamar Odom and Louis Scola are good players, but they are on the wrong side of 30 and don't do much for a team in rebuilding mode.

New Orleans is probably better off letting him walk and getting the inevitable top 3 pick. Martin and Scola still have a combined 65 million on there deals. I don't see how taking bad contracts helps the Hornets rebuild.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

In baseball, players have no trade clauses. In football, players holdout for more money. In soccer, players set their salary demands and choose their clubs.

If a couple of players after 5+ years want to choose their team then these owners and Stern are going to have to get over it. Bunch of old farts sitting around crying about the good ole days when there were 10 teams and everybody did what they were told. **** off.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Bogg said:


> Boston's put it out in the media that they're willing to trade for Paul with no guarantee. Worst case scenario, Paul walks and they cleared the cap space of a guy you can't build around, best case they got a franchise guy. Rondo and Green(plus a pick) is _absolutely_ out there whenever the Hornets want it.
> 
> 
> 
> The deal got nixed because it left the door open for Otis Smith's dumb self to swap Dwight for Bynum, and nobody outside of the Lakers organization wanted to see them reload off the backs of two miserably lopsided deals. It just so happened that Houston offered itself up as the sacrificial.........idiots?......in this scenario, instead of the Hornets. This trade being killed, while certainly shady, doesn't make Paul unmovable.


The Lakers deal is better than the Boston deal. Significantly.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Adam said:


> In baseball, players have no trade clauses. In football, players holdout for more money. In soccer, players set their salary demands and choose their clubs.
> 
> If a couple of players after 5+ years want to choose their team then these owners and Stern are going to have to get over it. Bunch of old farts sitting around crying about the good ole days when there were 10 teams and everybody did what they were told. **** off.


If your team didn't have the big 3, would you be saying this?


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

I'm still holding out hope that CP3 goes to the Clipps.


----------



## Duck

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Damian Necronamous said:


> Not my opinion cupcake, it's fact. ESPN Bottomline sucka!


That's cool. Doesn't answer my question. Chris Paul is going to sue the NBA for.. what? David Stern effectively owns the Hornets and they can do what they personally see fit for their basketball franchise.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

29 owners own the Hornets (Stern is a mouthpiece). If only the Western conference teams (not Houston) bitched that they didn't like it, that's enough to kill the deal. It sucks for Chris Paul, but the other owners (NOT THE LEAGUE) own the Hornets. People need to understand that the owners have a direct line of what the Hornets operations are doing and if enough complain, they can't make any moves. That's why I said Paul was in a messed up situation from the jump.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Lakers fans reacting to the news


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Duck34234 said:


> That's cool. Doesn't answer my question. Chris Paul is going to sue the NBA for.. what? David Stern effectively owns the Hornets and they can do what they personally see fit for their basketball franchise.


He also can't sue because he is being paid. He has no legal ground to stand on regarding "wanting" a trade.


----------



## Duck

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



HKF said:


> 29 owners own the Hornets (Stern is a mouthpiece). If only the Western conference teams (not Houston) bitched that they didn't like it, that's enough to kill the deal. It sucks for Chris Paul, but the other owners (NOT THE LEAGUE) own the Hornets. People need to understand that the owners have a direct line of what the Hornets operations are doing and if enough complain, they can't make any moves. That's why I said Paul was in a messed up situation from the jump.



This.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Adam said:


> The Lakers deal is better than the Boston deal. Significantly.


I agree. I've said, like three times in the last twenty minutes, that the return the Hornets were getting was reasonable. Houston was the team getting screwed in all this, by Daryl Morey's doing. My post was in response to the idea that all the other trades out there had been killed by Paul's refusal to sign an extension, which is simply false. There are other deals to be had, they just may not be as good as the one that got blocked.


----------



## Knick Killer

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



HB said:


> If your team didn't have the big 3, would you be saying this?


Of course he wouldn't.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Duck34234 said:


> That's cool. Doesn't answer my question. Chris Paul is going to sue the NBA for.. what? David Stern effectively owns the Hornets and they can do what they personally see fit for their basketball franchise.


Well he's not suing the NBA...I said a legal battle is going to ensue.

Clearly, he and the players union (and I'm sure a few of these teams) will argue that Stern is acting improperly. I highly doubt the rules surrounding the NBA's situation with the Hornets are written as "David Stern owns the Hornets and can do whatever he wants". If the Hornets can prove that this is a good basketball and a good financial move for them then there's no reason it shouldn't be allowed.

We'll see...


----------



## M.V.W.

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

I'm actually happy about the deal being blocked as I'd much prefer Gasol and Odom to stay.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Damian Necronamous said:


> Well he's not suing the NBA...I said a legal battle is going to ensue.
> 
> Clearly, he and the players union (and I'm sure a few of these teams) will argue that Stern is acting improperly. I highly doubt the rules surrounding the NBA's situation with the Hornets are written as "David Stern owns the Hornets and can do whatever he wants". If the Hornets can prove that this is a good basketball and a good financial move for them then there's no reason it shouldn't be allowed.
> 
> We'll see...


If you own a team, and the GM you appointed makes a good basketball trade for a player that improves your team, you, as the owner, can decide to veto the trade. For any reason. If you don't like his face. It's your team. 

This is just the ****ed up situation the Hornets are in.


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

From a Rockets standpoint I'm glad this deal is being blocked. Speaking of someone who is NOT a Laker fan I'm upset it didn't go through. This deal would have taken away the Lakers greatest asset(length) and what you would have had is 2 matador defenders in Kobe and Paul allowing defenders in the paint with little to no rim protection.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



M.V.W. said:


> I'm actually happy about the deal being blocked as I'd much prefer Gasol and Odom to stay.


I'm not ready for them to leave either, and apparently we need them to beat Memphis?

However Paul and Bynum would of been a good core for a decade and with Kobe would obviously still compete now.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



HKF said:


> 29 owners own the Hornets (Stern is a mouthpiece). If only the Western conference teams (not Houston) bitched that they didn't like it, that's enough to kill the deal. It sucks for Chris Paul, but the other owners (NOT THE LEAGUE) own the Hornets. People need to understand that the owners have a direct line of what the Hornets operations are doing and if enough complain, they can't make any moves. That's why I said Paul was in a messed up situation from the jump.


Yeah, this is the obvious problem here. In every other sport when a GM goes to the owner about a prospective trade and the owner says "NO" the deal gets nixed. I don't see why people think the NBA should be different.

And, no, it's not about the price the Lakers' would have paid, because ultimately what New Orleans was getting back was a bunch of roleplayers of varying quality and a pair of first round picks in the 25-30 range. That's going to have a dramatic impact on the franchise's resale value.

I mean, the investment was destined to lose money, but if they let that trade go through the Hornets would have just enough talent to be a 38-42 win team in the short term, right in front of two of the best drafts of the last decade. But no players that anyone would pay NBA ticket prices to go see. So any prospective owner would get stuck with that team and that lease in that market with no players to sell tickets and no hope of improving any time soon.

I think that while the other owners are fine with losing a little, there's a limit to how much they're prepared to lose to make the Busses even richer. 

And after that asshole helped bring Brian Scalabrine and Wally Szczerbiak Szczuperstar to Boston, I hope that Daryl Morey dies in a ****ing plane crash for trying to bring my least favourite player to Houston. Go **** yourself with a ****ing firehose you ****ing ****face.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



M.V.W. said:


> I'm actually happy about the deal being blocked as I'd much prefer Gasol and Odom to stay.


Yeah, but if that happens it'll be SOOOOOO awkward lol....


----------



## Duck

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Damian Necronamous said:


> Well he's not suing the NBA...I said a legal battle is going to ensue.
> 
> Clearly, he and the players union (and I'm sure a few of these teams) will argue that Stern is acting improperly. I highly doubt the rules surrounding the NBA's situation with the Hornets are written as "David Stern owns the Hornets and can do whatever he wants". If the Hornets can prove that this is a good basketball and a good financial move for them then there's no reason it shouldn't be allowed.
> 
> We'll see...


Lol, yeah there is. its called "the team owner doesn't want the move to be made"

HKF said the other owners effectively own the Hornets, and if enough of them didn't want it to go through, Stern has the right to block the trade, for any reason he sees fit.

Dell Demps is GM, not President, CEO or Owner. It could be as simple as "the value of the Hornets franchise is significantly diminished should Chris Paul be traded for these non-marketable players"

completely subjective, yet entirely plausible reason for a league-owned team trying to sell a franchise to not trade its best player.

Reason could be financial in nature. Or it could be that Stern doesn't want to see another superteam. Any owner has the right to do this. As a representative agent of a franchise owner, he can make this decision too.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



E.H. Munro said:


> Yeah, this is the obvious problem here. In every other sport when a GM goes to the owner about a prospective trade and the owner says "NO" the deal gets nixed. I don't see why people think the NBA should be different.
> 
> And, no, it's not about the price the Lakers' would have paid, because ultimately what New Orleans was getting back was a bunch of roleplayers of varying quality and a pair of first round picks in the 25-30 range. That's going to have a dramatic impact on the franchise's resale value.
> 
> I mean, the investment was destined to lose money, but if they let that trade go through the Hornets would have just enough talent to be a 38-42 win team in the short term, right in front of two of the best drafts of the last decade. But no players that anyone would pay NBA ticket prices to go see. So any prospective owner would get stuck with that team and that lease in that market with no players to sell tickets and no hope of improving any time soon.
> 
> I think that while the other owners are fine with losing a little, there's a limit to how much they're prepared to lose to make the Busses even richer.
> 
> And after that asshole helped bring Brian Scalabrine and Wally Szczerbiak Szczuperstar to Boston, I hope that Daryl Morey dies in a ****ing plane crash for trying to bring my least favourite player to Houston. Go **** yourself with a ****ing firehose you ****ing ****face.


LIKE


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Duck34234 said:


> Lol, yeah there is. its called "the team owner doesn't want the move to be made"
> 
> HKF said the other owners effectively own the Hornets, and if enough of them didn't want it to go through, Stern has the right to block the trade, for any reason he sees fit.
> 
> Dell Demps is GM, not President, CEO or Owner. It could be as simple as "the value of the Hornets franchise is significantly diminished should Chris Paul be traded for these non-marketable players"
> 
> completely subjective, yet entirely plausible reason for a league-owned team trying to sell a franchise to not trade its best player.
> 
> Reason could be financial in nature. Or it could be that Stern doesn't want to see another superteam. Any owner has the right to do this. As a representative agent of a franchise owner, he can make this decision too.


But why then did the NBA say it was nixed for "basketball reasons"? Those are financial reasons. See what I'm saying?

It's all just sooo damn fishy. Is the NBA just not gonna let Chris Paul be traded, force him to enter the FA market, and let the Hornets get nothing in return? I just don't get it - that's what looks like is going on here.


----------



## Duck

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Damian Necronamous said:


> LIKE



uhh...


----------



## Duck

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Damian Necronamous said:


> But why then did the NBA say it was nixed for "basketball reasons"? Those are financial reasons. See what I'm saying?
> 
> It's all just sooo damn fishy. Is the NBA just not gonna let Chris Paul be traded, force him to enter the FA market, and let the Hornets get nothing in return? I just don't get it - that's what looks like is going on here.


Not allowing the Lakers to form a superteam sounds like a basketball related reason to me.

Another basketball related reason is "I don't want Chris Paul traded to a team in the same conference as the Hornets"


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

Punk, pussy, jealous ass bitchmade move by every single Owner who nixed it. Maybe if you hired intelligent people you'd have a team Paul wanted to go to.

I mean I guess there's nothing you can say, the Owners own the Hornets, but why even let it get that far if you're going to nix it.

And **** Stern for "he didn't like players dictating", the guy's about to be a free agent anyway. He used his expiring contract as leverage as it was his right to do, because he signed the contract. What's he supposed to just accept going to the damn Bobcats (hypothetically) like a good soldier? Weak.

Now what happens? Paul still has to be moved.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

The other thing is didn't this trade make the Hornets take on salary in the short term? Which the other owners actually pay for?

The whole thing was a mess, and I'm sort of suprised the NBA didn't see it coming. Cuban and Phil Jackson both warned about this a long time ago. This specific thing.

I think what happened was the basketball people for the hornets made one decision, then the NBA who actually own the team, made another decision--and then that comes out as the deal being accepted and then stern nixing the deal.

At first I thought CP3 might have a legal leg to stand on, but the more you think about it, Stern is well within his rights to nix this deal. He owns the team basically. And it's a HUGE threat to the fairness of the game for the NBA to be deciding where to trade Chris Paul.

CP3 is basically in the absolute worst scenario in terms of being able to cry his way onto another team. He has no leverage because no one owns the Hornets--so it actually doesn't really matter if he walks and the hornets get nothing for him.

It's not a legal right to be able to force a trade. Much though Melo made it seem.

I wonder if this emboldens Orlando to keep Dwight.


----------



## Mrs. Thang

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*

I think commiting to 4 years and 40 million dollars worth of a 31 year old Louis Scola is enough of a basketball reason to nix the trade. They are honestly better off keeping Paul for a year and maintaing cap flexibility.

On the money side, it gives a new owner a clean slate to work with.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

no, they're not better off waiting a year and getting nothing instead of landing Odom, Scola, Martin and picks - sorry that's just clearly wrong


and **** David Stern


----------



## Laker Freak

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Dre said:


> Punk, pussy, jealous ass bitchmade move by every single Owner who nixed it. Maybe if you hired intelligent people you'd have a team Paul wanted to go to.
> 
> I mean I guess there's nothing you can say, the Owners own the Hornets, but why even let it get that far if you're going to nix it.
> 
> And **** Stern for "he didn't like players dictating", the guy's about to be a free agent anyway. He used his expiring contract as leverage as it was his right to do, because he signed the contract. What's he supposed to just accept going to the damn Bobcats (hypothetically) like a good soldier? Weak.
> 
> Now what happens? Paul still has to be moved.


Stern lets him rot in New Orleans for another year and forces him to sign elsewhere for less money.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

They'll probably revisit the Celtics deal. 

And please. The Amare deal wouldn't have been better than this, give it up Bogg.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Knick_Killer31 said:


> Of course he wouldn't.


Actually he would, if he's smart.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



e-monk said:


> no, they're not better off waiting a year and getting nothing instead of landing Odom, Scola, Martin and picks - sorry that's just clearly wrong


It would leave the new owners on the hook for $76 million for the privilege of getting a couple of draft picks in the 25-30 range. It would probably cost the owners $50 million on the sale price when all is said and done, right as they were entertaining hopes that the new CBA would allow them to break even on the deal.

From a practical standpoint it didn't make much sense either as the best roleplayer in the deal is a free agent after next season, leaving the new owner with the prospect of either overpaying the alleged centerpiece of the Paul trade or going through this entire soap opera again. 

They really would be better off just sending him to Indiana for Collison and a 2012 first, as they would at least then have a giant trade exception that could be used. I mean, sure, they lose a low first round pick in that exchange, but they make the financials look a lot better and bottom out enough to get a marketable player in the 2012 draft.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



E.H. Munro said:


> It would leave the new owners on the hook for $76 million for the privilege of getting a couple of draft picks in the 25-30 range. It would probably cost the owners $50 million on the sale price when all is said and done, right as they were entertaining hopes that the new CBA would allow them to break even on the deal.
> 
> From a practical standpoint it didn't make much sense either as the best roleplayer in the deal is a free agent after next season, leaving the new owner with the prospect of either overpaying the alleged centerpiece of the Paul trade or going through this entire soap opera again.
> 
> They really would be better off just sending him to Indiana for Collison and a 2012 first, as they would at least then have a giant trade exception that could be used. I mean, sure, they lose a low first round pick in that exchange, but they make the financials look a lot better and bottom out enough to get a marketable player in the 2012 draft.


Some of these guys don't get it. You're almost always better off letting a guy walk, so you can bottom out and get a high draft pick. Look at the Bucks. Constantly at mediocrity, never improving. The only way to improve in this league is to be awful. Getting back guys to make you a run of the mill team hurts you.


----------



## Mrs. Thang

*Re: Update: Paul to LAL, Pau to HOU, Odom/Scola/KMart to NO?*



Mrs. Thang said:


> I think commiting to 4 years and 40 million dollars worth of a 31 year old Louis Scola is enough of a basketball reason to nix the trade. They are honestly better off keeping Paul for a year and maintaing cap flexibility.
> 
> On the money side, it gives a new owner a clean slate to work with.


Suppose Paul was a free agent now and left for another team. Would you use his money to sign Kevin Martin to a 2 year 25 million deal and Louis Scola to a 4 year 40 million dollar deal? Hell no.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

The other owners don't give a rat's ass about the Hornets. This is badly-disguised collusion.


----------



## 29380

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



> I'm told there is a school of thought in informed circles that Stern vetoed C.Paul trade because a D.Howard-to-LA trade was coming up next.


http://twitter.com/#!/sheridanhoops


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Floods said:


> The other owners don't give a rat's ass about the Hornets. This is badly-disguised collusion.


See because 2 teams made the deal with the Hornets, you can't say collusion at all. It's like having 29 board members, majority rules or sometimes vocal minority rules.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

*SO WHAT.* That's not his place to decide how to spread the wealth. Seriously **** him. I'd rather we be locked out then having him put his grubby paw on who goes where.

And I'm not even a Lakers fan.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Knicks4life said:


> http://twitter.com/#!/sheridanhoops


Chris Sheridan intentionally puts out bogus shit in order to poison the waters and influence things to help the Knicks because he desperately wants to retire on their dime.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

The writing was kind of on the wall, I don't think the Lakers would've stopped with Carl Landry, they would've at least offered Bynum, and you know Dwight would have tripped over himself to go there with Paul and Kobe.

But still it's one thing to not make the move for financial reasons, but they said "basketball reasons", meaning they were jealous of the Lakers retooling. 27 bitches.

It's akin to the freedom of speech thing. I don't like the Lakers getting Paul and Howard, but if they do it legally you have no leg to stand on to deny them. This isn't wrestling.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Dre said:


> They'll probably revisit the Celtics deal.
> 
> And please. The Amare deal wouldn't have been better than this, give it up Bogg.


That would be hysterical if the Celtics ended up with him after the NBA nixed the deal to the Lakers. It would be like they were actively trying to make Lakers fans stop watching the NBA.

Best move now at this point is just to announce you are not trading Chris Paul to anyone because it would be a conflict of interest.

Of course then the Knicks feel stupid for using up their cap space for Chandler instead of just waiting on Paul in free agency.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Dre said:


> *SO WHAT.* That's not his place to decide how to spread the wealth. Seriously **** him. I'd rather we be locked out then having him put his grubby paw on who goes where.
> 
> And I'm not even a Lakers fan.


If you think this is all Stern, then I don't know what to tell you. You don't care if the other owners had a problem with it, well too f'n bad. Deal isn't happening. NEXT!


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

NBA shouldn't have bought the team in the first place.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> See because 2 teams made the deal with the Hornets, you can't say collusion at all. It's like having 29 board members, majority rules or sometimes vocal minority rules.


The thing is there's precedent here. When the Hornets picked up Carl Landry a group of owners protested because they didn't want to pay out of their pockets for Carl Landry, and the NBA responded by saying that while the league owns the team the day-to-day basketball decisions have to be made by a qualified management group that is not biased and is only acting in the best interests of the team. In this situation, the NBA is contradicting itself by accepting direction from the other owners (many of whom are vying for Chris Paul or at the very least have a stake in influencing the competitive balance regarding the Lakers) and disregarding the verdict from Dell Demps' group that this is what's best for New Orleans.

The financial burden argument by the other owners doesn't fly when it comes to maintaining probity in their sport. Also, I'm not convinced that any increased financial burden wouldn't be covered by the revenue paid to the Hornets by the NBA itself.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

The deal is not a good a deal for New Orleans. Why do you keep saying that? They don't have a sole owner. They are taking on more salaries for zero all-stars. Odom, Kevin Martin and Scola is garbage. It makes the team the Bucks. Good lord. At least with Paul you can sell out the arena.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

They can't even sell out the arena with Pau

In reality, there shouldn't even be a team in New Orleans............


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> If you think this is all Stern, then I don't know what to tell you. You don't care if the other owners had a problem with it, well too f'n bad. Deal isn't happening. NEXT!


No it's not all about Stern, but he ultimately has the power to tell them to **** themselves.

I'm referring to the "Stern didn't want players picking and choosing where they wanted" aspect of it


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Adam said:


> The thing is there's precedent here. When the Hornets picked up Carl Landry a group of owners protested because they didn't want to pay out of their pockets for Carl Landry, and the NBA responded by saying that while the league owns the team the day-to-day basketball decisions have to be made by a qualified management group that is not biased and is only acting in the best interests of the team. In this situation, the NBA is contradicting itself by accepting direction from the other owners (many of whom are vying for Chris Paul or at the very least have a stake in influencing the competitive balance regarding the Lakers) and disregarding the verdict from Dell Demps' group that this is what's best for New Orleans.


They took on salary but remember a basketball decision doesn't mean that it can't be financial. Unless we're talking strictly 2nd round draft picks. Also, Landry was more money, but he was an expiring contract. They were upset, but he added minimal salary over time. In the case of Scola, Odom and Martin, this is not a minimal financial commitment. 



> The financial burden argument by the other owners doesn't fly when it comes to maintaining probity in their sport. I'm not convinced that any increased financial burden wouldn't be covered by the revenue paid to the Hornets by the NBA itself.


Could be, but then again, I expect the team to be sold by the summer. New Owner is going to want a clean slate probably since they aren't getting a Stephen Curry or Eric Gordon. And before someone mentions Dell Demps, Demps is working for his next job right now. The team becoming the Cavs doesn't help him whatsoever.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> See because 2 teams made the deal with the Hornets, you can't say collusion at all. It's like having 29 board members, majority rules or sometimes vocal minority rules.


Three teams made a valid trade that they all agreed upon. It was killed by other, butthurt owners who had a vested interest in either keeping Chris Paul from the Lakers, or trying to acquire him for their own franchise. Collusion.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HB said:


> NBA shouldn't have bought the team in the first place.


So you think the team should have folded then? There was not going to be a buyer that couldn't move it out of New Orleans man.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

Until somebody refutes what Adam said in that post you're all just looking like giddy schoolgirls that the Lakers won't be stomping over all of us.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Floods said:


> Three teams made a valid trade that they all agreed upon. It was killed by other, butthurt owners who had a vested interest in either keeping Chris Paul from the Lakers, or trying to acquire him for their own franchise. Collusion.


No two teams did (Lakers, Rockets). The third team in question is co-owned by the other 27. Your math is wrong.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

lol @ HB..what did you think was going to happen if they had *no* Owner..always with the comic relief


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> The deal is not a good a deal for New Orleans. Why do you keep saying that? They don't have a sole owner. They are taking on more salaries for zero all-stars. Odom, Kevin Martin and Scola is garbage. It makes the team the Bucks. Good lord. At least with Paul you can sell out the arena.


My point is up until now the Hornets executives have been empowered to make the decisions they feel are best for the team. I cited the Carl Landry case.

Dell Demps is now saying this deal is the one he wants to do for his team and now suddenly the NBA is contradicting itself.

Sorry, but teams make deals all the time and it's a matter of opinion whether it's good for them or not. What reason do we have to believe that Dell Demps isn't acting in the best interests of his team? Are you accusing them of conspiring to aid the Lakers?

Even if it's a piss poor deal they still have the right to make it and at the very least other owners absolutely can't orchestrate the rosters of other teams. That's a clear conflict of interest and under no circumstance should their opinion matter. You mentioned the financial burden and how they have a say, but I'm sorry that's not a proper excuse. This is the association they signed up for and the Hornets are a pill they are going to have to swallow even if financial burdens increase. At least until the team is sold.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> No two teams did (Lakers, Rockets). The third team in question is co-owned by the other 27. Your math is wrong.


But the rest of it isn't.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> No two teams did (Lakers, Rockets). The third team in question is co-owned by the other 27. Your math is wrong.


Dell Demps does the basketball negotiating for the Hornets. He agreed to the trade. Sure, his owner(s) may not have signed off on it when he went to them, but that's because they colluded.

3 teams made a valid trade that all basketball parties agreed to. Lakers, Rockets, Hornets. By basketball parties I mean people that are normally assigned the task of talking possible trades with other teams.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> The deal is not a good a deal for New Orleans. Why do you keep saying that? They don't have a sole owner. They are taking on more salaries for zero all-stars. Odom, Kevin Martin and Scola is garbage. It makes the team the Bucks. Good lord. At least with Paul you can sell out the arena.


I can't believe you're actually hiding behind this shit. Unbelievable.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

So did the Owners conference call during the draft? Did they give a shit? Or did they leave it to the GM to decide.

I'm curious. Let's not act like it's not because Paul to the Lakers would seriously cramp their styles. 

If anything they would probably love to see another team stricken in cap hell not being able to compete with them..but not at the expense of Paul.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> Some of these guys don't get it. You're almost always better off letting a guy walk, so you can bottom out and get a high draft pick. Look at the Bucks. Constantly at mediocrity, never improving. The only way to improve in this league is to be awful. Getting back guys to make you a run of the mill team hurts you.


I don't necessarily agree that the draft is the only way to build, because there's a gigantic luck factor involved. Generally you need to win the lottery in the right year, because (also generally) for every LeBron there's a Bargnani. 

But in this case the Hornets would essentially be trading Paul for the 2011 Rockets and a pair of low firsts. So they'd be a 35-45 win team right in front of the two best drafts in recent memory. If you're a bad team, and let's be honest, absent Paul this team is _Michael Bay Presents Pearl Harbor 2: The Musical!_ bad, these are the years to bottom out, because you're going to get very marketable players for those top 5 picks.

And, as evidence that it's the best route for the team to take, I will point out that the last time the Hornets dealt with a disgruntled all-star point guard they gave him away, bottomed out, and drafted Chris Paul. So, their best bet is to find a team with cap space to take Paul off their hands in exchange for an average one guard (just to plug that hole in the interim), take their lumps, and draft a player that can be sold to the fans. 

Being bad enough to draft Anthony Davis Harrison Barnes, Perry Jones, Andre Drummond, or Quincy Miller is just a much better position to be in than to be adding Jeremy Lamb, Tyler Zeller or Kendall Marshall to my _just bad enough to miss the playoffs_ team.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=At_MCea0tR2fjoZ6_q4Uws28vLYF?slug=aw-wojnarowski_chris_paul_lakers_hornets_nba_120811



> NBA commissioner David Stern killed the New Orleans Hornets’ trade of Chris Paul after several owners complained about the league-owned team dealing the All-Star point guard to the Los Angeles Lakers, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.
> 
> Some owners pushed Stern to nullify the trade and that the Hornets be made to keep Paul on the roster for the foreseeable future, sources said. A chorus of owners were irate with the belief that the five-month lockout had happened largely to stop big-market teams from leveraging small-market teams for star players pending free agency.
> 
> The trade between the Lakers, Hornets and Houston Rockets had been consummated late Thursday afternoon, about the same time the league’s owners and players were completing their vote to ratify the new collective bargaining agreement – an agreement that Stern had repeatedly said would help restore the NBA’s competitive balance. League owners had watched last season as some of the game’s biggest stars left for larger markets. LeBron James and Chris Bosh joined Dwyane Wade and the Miami Heat, and Carmelo Anthony forced the Denver Nuggets to trade him to the New York Knicks.
> 
> “The owners half-pushed this, and Stern took it the rest of the way,” a league source told Yahoo! Sports. “In the end, David didn’t like that the players were dictating where they wanted to go, like Carmelo had, and he wasn’t going to let Chris Paul dictate where he wanted to go.”
> 
> Before Stern intervened, the Lakers had reached an agreement to acquire Paul in a deal that would have cost them Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom, league sources told Yahoo! Sports. Under terms of the deal, the Lakers would have sent Gasol to the Rockets. The Hornets would have received Odom, Rockets guards Kevin Martin and Goran Dragic and forward Luis Scola, league sources said.
> 
> Houston had also agreed to send a 2012 first-round pick – previously obtained from the Knicks – to New Orleans as part of the package, a source said.
> 
> Demps had informed two of the other finalists for Paul on Thursday evening that he had a deal in place for Paul to go the Lakers, front-office sources said. All the players involved in the trade have now been told to report to their teams for the start of training camp on Friday.
> 
> Hornets general manager Dell Demps is “disconsolate” over the heavy-handed move from the commissioner’s office, a source told Y! Sports. Demps considered resigning his job on Thursday, league sources said, and had to be talked out of it. The Hornets had scored a terrific deal for Paul, a trade that was lauded by some of Demps’ peers throughout the league. Officials involved in the trade talks said the league office was consulted throughout the negotiations, and there was never an indication Demps didn’t have the power to make a deal. In fact, several teams negotiating with New Orleans to get Paul asked the league office, and were told Demps had full authority to execute a trade.
> 
> Stern listened to enraged owners on Thursday insist this trade went against the entire reason the owners pushed for the lockout, that nothing had changed, and yet it was Stern who made the extraordinary decision to cancel the deal. Demps tried to talk him out of it, league officials said, but Stern was absolute in his desire to kill the trade.
> 
> Paul had listed the Lakers as one of his preferred destinations, and it became a more clear choice for him on Thursday after the New York Knicks moved to the brink of completing a four-year, $58 million contract for free-agent center Tyson Chandler. The Knicks lost the salary-cap space they would’ve needed to sign Paul this summer, and the Lakers had been pushing hard to close a deal for Paul with Houston and New Orleans.
> 
> As one rival executive with strong ties to the league office said, “Stern cared about two things: Selling that franchise for the best possible price; and showing the players that they weren’t going to dictate where teams could trade them. But now, there’s no way that the league can allow Chris Paul to be traded at all, otherwise Stern is basically deciding where one of the top players in the league is going versus having any fair process.”
> 
> Officials from New Orleans, Houston and Los Angeles were stunned Thursday night. The killed trade had ripple affects everywhere in free agency and potential trades, and literally pushed the market into paralysis on the even of training camps opening up.
> 
> “We were all told by the league he was a trade-able player, and now they’re saying that Dell doesn’t have the authority to make the trade?” said an NBA executive who had periodic talks with New Orleans throughout the process. “Now, they’re saying that Dell is an idiot, that he can’t do it his job. [Expletive] this whole thing. David’s drunk on power, and he doesn’t give a [expletive] about the players, and he doesn’t give a [expletive] about the hundreds of hours the teams put into make that deal.
> 
> “How do the Lakers explain this to Odom? How does Houston deal with the guys it just tried to trade? Scola and Martin are going to be pissed at them, and who knows how long that takes to get over? Explain to me how the league kills this Pau Gasol deal, but allows Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol?
> 
> “To me, this makes the league feel like it’s rigged, that Stern just does whatever Stern wants to do. He’s messed up the competitive balance of this league a lot worse by killing the deal, because you’ve completely destroyed the planning that New Orleans, Houston did and left them in shambles over this. I’ve never been so discouraged about this league, never so down.
> 
> “I mean, come on: Chris Paul is leaving New Orleans in 66 games. He’s gone. And what’s Dell Demps, and that franchise, going to have to show for it?”


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

For the record, I do think this is a classic case of a GM grabbing a shit ton of worthless pieces instead of doing the rebuilding process. I would let Paul walk for free instead of take on a bunch of long-term fake superstars' contracts.

However, I'd bet about 20+ other GM's would act just like Dell Demps. I'm not going to support what is NBA owners orchestrating the rosters of 3 teams and colluding just because I fundamentally disagree with this deal.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



> “The owners half-pushed this, and Stern took it the rest of the way,” a league source told Yahoo! Sports. “In the end, David didn’t like that the players were dictating where they wanted to go, like Carmelo had, and he wasn’t going to let Chris Paul dictate where he wanted to go.”


Um, I'm pretty sure Chris Paul was never campaigning to be a Laker. Everything leaked on that front was yay Knicks.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

1. It's hilarious that this trade was voided because it actually hurts the Lakers.

2. It's even more hilarious that Paul is threatening legal action when he has absolutely no case whatsoever.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

If all of that is true ^ (that the Hornets were told all along that the deal was acceptable, but that owners' yelling at Stern was what cancelled it) then Stern only has one choice: allow the trade and then resign.

GTFO Stern. You're a disgrace. This is collusion at its finest, and I think there is some sort of legal ground there.


----------



## Kidd

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

Don't care so much about the politics, just pissed cause pairing Paul with Kobe would've been interesting to say the least.


----------



## thegza

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



> To me, this makes the league feel like it’s rigged, that Stern just does whatever Stern wants to do. He’s messed up the competitive balance of this league a lot worse by killing the deal, because you’ve completely destroyed the planning that New Orleans, Houston did and left them in shambles over this. I’ve never been so discouraged about this league, never so down.
> 
> “I mean, come on: Chris Paul is leaving New Orleans in 66 games. He’s gone. And what’s Dell Demps, and that franchise, going to have to show for it?”


Perfectly said by Woj.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Damian Necronamous said:


> If all of that is true ^ (that the Hornets were told all along that the deal was acceptable, but that owners' yelling at Stern was what cancelled it) then Stern only has one choice: allow the trade and then resign.
> 
> GTFO Stern. You're a disgrace. This is collusion at its finest, and I think there is some sort of legal ground there.


There is no legal ground.

First of all there was never a trade.

Second, even if there were a trade, it's completely within the owners' authority to block it.

Third, even if there were a trade and the owners didn't veto it, the commissioner still has the authority to block a trade that he deems is against the best interests of basketball.


----------



## Mrs. Thang

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

New Orleans is f'd either way. At least this way they are f'd with options. This was a bad basketball deal for New Orleans.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

And that "suck until you hit the lotto" strategy is bullshit. Tanking isn't reliable. There's teams have been tanking for years. That's the _easiest_ way out the door, to just sit on your hands.

How come the two most recent comeups, in Boston and LA, didn't revolve around sucking, but trading assets you've accrued? How come you like what the Grizzlies became after being mediocre and slowly wheeling and dealing towards contention? 

It's a delicate balance between being a team in cap hell and a middling team with leverage. The Hornets could've flipped Pau into something, and you draft well and wait for the opportunity to make a splash. 

The only people who preach that dumbass philosophy are armchair GMs who'll never have to go in an Owner's office and say "I know we lost 10 out of 11 and 28 out of 35, but there's this great kid at UNC we _might_ get".

Please.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Dre said:


> Until somebody refutes what Adam said in that post you're all just looking like giddy schoolgirls that the Lakers won't be stomping over all of us.


I'm sorry, I must have missed it. Did Dell Demps agree to put the league on the hook for $76 million for Landry? I can't believe that he hasn't been fired. Jesus, no wonder that franchise is such a mess.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Mrs. Thang said:


> New Orleans is f'd either way. At least this way they are f'd with options. This was a bad basketball deal for New Orleans.


It was their bad basketball deal to make. It wasn't for Mark Cuban or Jimmy Dolan or whoever to decide the rosters of Houston/LA/New Orleans. That's the worst case scenario.

The league has already stated in the past that the Hornets management is responsible for all basketball related decisions.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Dre said:


> lol @ HB..what did you think was going to happen if they had *no* Owner..always with the comic relief


Chouest?


----------



## roux

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> The deal is not a good a deal for New Orleans. Why do you keep saying that? They don't have a sole owner. They are taking on more salaries for zero all-stars. Odom, Kevin Martin and Scola is garbage. It makes the team the Bucks. Good lord. At least with Paul you can sell out the arena.


better than the bucks you mean


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

The only time you have grounds to block anything without revolt is if there's something shady going on. If Buss plans to give Paul some stocks and leave million dollar briefcases on his lawn, sure, nix it. But you don't do what Stern did because it would be unfair for the other teams to compete. 

And to everyone still trying to talk about the financial aspect, the article and everything else outsiders are saying is revolving around the competitive balance aspect of it. Two different things. Take all your 76 million talk and shove it.


----------



## c_dog

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

it makes them the bucks? please.. at least the bucks have brandon jennings, an up coming pg. hornets would be unwatchable with all those mediocre veterans.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

Are we certain Chris Paul is leaving, though? Now that the trade is nixed, you almost have to assume he's a Hornet for the season. And in free agency, he isn't going to be able to choose the Lakers or Knicks, so he may end up being forced to stay in NOH. I think that's what the owners are trying to force. They nix the trade, which risks the Hornets getting nothing, but hasn't the chance he stays in New Orleans increased? There's no certainty of a contender or major market having cap room unless you count the Nets who have D-Will for now. So in that situation, Paul would have to seriously consider staying in New Orleans and at least make more money.

It does make the league seem rigged, but can the NBA hide behind the argument that the NBA owns the Hornets? I want to see what happens if a player that isn't on New Orleans (so Dwight or D-Will) gets traded in their contract year.


----------



## Laker Freak

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

IMO the NBA needs to sell the Hornets by the end of the season or just contract them. Stuff like this is very sketchy and may have just ruined the chemistry for a 3 teams involved.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HB said:


> Chouest?


Chouest is not going to buy the team. He sees it's impossible to win in New Orleans (with the way the league is setup) so he bowed up before he was blamed for it not working. He also knew Paul would not stay or hope to get other people there. And before someone says Paul gave the Hornets X amount of years, he's only be an All-NBA player for 3 years (the 4th he was injured). That isn't enough time to build a title contender due to guaranteed contracts.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



c_dog said:


> it makes them the bucks? please.. at least the bucks have brandon jennings, an up coming pg. hornets would be unwatchable with all those mediocre veterans.


The team is still bad/mediocre and going nowhere, Brandon Jennings be damned. Paul made the Hornets a playoff team and a threat in the West to at least cause trouble.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

Bring the Hornets to Seattle or Vancouver.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



roux2dope said:


> better than the bucks you mean


Note I am not trying to shit on the Bucks. But as a Bucks fan, you have to admit their refusal to actually rebuild without doing stupid band-aid fixes is what hurts them. And yes, tearing it down and building it up is how Memphis got better.

Portland did it too, problem is two of the three guys got hurt, but they had the talent. Gay, Conley and Mayo all lottery talent, then Z-Bo trade from the capspace. Lucking out with M. Gasol. Arthur, Young, Vasquez all in the draft.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Dre said:


> And that "suck until you hit the lotto" strategy is bullshit. Tanking isn't reliable. There's teams have been tanking for years. That's the _easiest_ way out the door, to just sit on your hands.


Please notice my caveat. I explicitly pointed out that you had to be bad in the right year to profit. It just so happens that 2012 and 2013 are two of those years. Assembling a team that caps out as a 38 win team for the foreseeable future is actually the worst place to be. Boston's good fortune started with Garnett refusing a trade, which allowed them to break up the only assets the franchise had (the fifth pick in a three player draft and Al Jefferson). 

But the deal makes no financial sense from the other owners' perspectives because $76 million in salary commitments to mediocre players are a liability in terms of sale price. A blank slate is actually better as it allows the new owners make their own decisions rather than having to ride out the shitstorm.


----------



## roux

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> Note I am not trying to shit on the Bucks. But as a Bucks fan, you have to admit their refusal to actually rebuild without doing stupid band-aid fixes is what hurts them. And yes, tearing it down and building it up is how Memphis got better.
> 
> Portland did it too, problem is two of the three guys got hurt, but they had the talent. Gay, Conley and Mayo all lottery talent, then Z-Bo trade from the capspace. Lucking out with M. Gasol. Arthur, Young, Vasquez all in the draft.


No i agree, the have failed in the draft, and every year find a new band aid as you say to keep them in the hunt for the 8th seed, (richard jefferson,john salmons,corey maggette, this year stepehn jackson) the bucks are pretty much in purgatory right now, not good enough to contend, not bad enough to draft a true franchise changer


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

I also don't hate the Lakers and think this made the team worse. I just think that the Hornets should not trade Paul until the team is sold or let him walk. I have felt that way from day one.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

But that is *not* why they nixed the deal can you people not read or do you want to speak your opinion into the overall story as truth?


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

it's absolutely ridiculous that this trade is getting blocked.

but it's an awful, awful deal for the rockets.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



> Cleveland Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert called the New Orleans Hornets’ proposed trade of Chris Paul to the Los Angeles Lakers a “travesty,” and urged NBA commissioner David Stern to put the deal to vote of the league’s 29 owners in an email obtained by Yahoo! Sports. Gilbert sent the email to Stern, deputy commissioner Adam Silver and a handful of Gilbert’s ownership peers on Thursday.
> 
> The following is the email in its entirety:
> 
> Commissioner,
> 
> It would be a travesty to allow the Lakers to acquire Chris Paul in the apparent trade being discussed.
> 
> This trade should go to a vote of the 29 owners of the Hornets.
> 
> Over the next three seasons this deal would save the Lakers approximately $20 million in salaries and approximately $21 million in luxury taxes. That $21 million goes to non-taxpaying teams and to fund revenue sharing.
> 
> I cannot remember ever seeing a trade where a team got by far the best player in the trade and saved over $40 million in the process. And it doesn’t appear that they would give up any draft picks, which might allow to later make a trade for Dwight Howard. (They would also get a large trade exception that would help them improve their team and/or eventually trade for Howard.) When the Lakers got Pau Gasol (at the time considered an extremely lopsided trade) they took on tens of millions in additional salary and luxury tax and they gave up a number of prospects (one in Marc Gasol who may become a max-salary player).
> 
> I just don’t see how we can allow this trade to happen.
> 
> I know the vast majority of owners feel the same way that I do.
> 
> When will we just change the name of 25 of the 30 teams to the Washington Generals?
> 
> Please advise….
> 
> Dan G.
> 
> An NBA spokesman said owners “didn’t kill the deal,” instead citing “basketball reasons,” for why the league office blocked the trade.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-nba_dan_gilbert_email_lakers_hornets_trade_120811


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



> Commissioner,
> 
> It would be a travesty to allow the Lakers to acquire Chris Paul in the apparent trade being discussed.
> 
> This trade should go to a vote of the 29 owners of the Hornets.
> 
> Over the next three seasons this deal would save the Lakers approximately $20 million in salaries and approximately $21 million in luxury taxes. That $21 million goes to non-taxpaying teams and to fund revenue sharing.
> 
> I cannot remember ever seeing a trade where a team got by far the best player in the trade and saved over $40 million in the process. And it doesn’t appear that they would give up any draft picks, which might allow to later make a trade for Dwight Howard. (They would also get a large trade exception that would help them improve their team and/or eventually trade for Howard.) When the Lakers got Pau Gasol (at the time considered an extremely lopsided trade) they took on tens of millions in additional salary and luxury tax and they gave up a number of prospects (one in Marc Gasol who may become a max-salary player).
> 
> I just don’t see how we can allow this trade to happen.
> 
> I know the vast majority of owners feel the same way that I do.
> 
> When will we just change the name of 25 of the 30 teams to the Washington Generals?
> 
> Please advise….
> 
> Dan G.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-nba_dan_gilbert_email_lakers_hornets_trade_120811

So the scorned ex who initiated the review only mentions salary in relation to the Lakers, not what he and his other owners will have to pony up for. Give it up guys. How much more evidence do you need juxtaposed against nothing but your opinion?


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

How dare that bastard Dan Gilbert suggest that money had anything to do with his decision!!!!


----------



## Kneejoh

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

As a Lakers fan I really can't say it was a good trade unless this was set up to get Dwight, and even then I don't think it makes them a better team than this past year it just sets them up better for after Kobe. The Lakers best move would be to only go after Dwight while attempting to hold on to Pau, and then adding a PG that might get amnestied.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

**** Dan Gilbert!!!


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

****ing Dan Gilbert. What a shock.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Dre said:


> http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-nba_dan_gilbert_email_lakers_hornets_trade_120811
> 
> So the scorned ex who initiated the review only mentions salary in relation to the Lakers, not what he and his other owners will have to pony up for. Give it up guys. How much more evidence do you need juxtaposed against nothing but your opinion?


Do you understand that that $21 million in luxury tax savings comes directly out of the pockets of the small market/under the cap teams? That's actually in addition to everything else the deal costs them in terms of plain cash and lost equity value. _And all to make the Busses even richer_. Can you give me one good reason that the other 28 owners should agree to that?


----------



## Kneejoh

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

Dan Gilbert...why is he still around? Why don't you make some smart decisions and maybe your team won't be renamed the Washington Generals you turd. Maybe players wouldn't mind coming to Cleveland if you didn't act like you did when Lebron left.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



E.H. Munro said:


> How dare that bastard Dan Gilbert suggest that money had anything to do with his decision!!!!


Now you're just being simple...whatever dude.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

Lebron is gone, Dan.

Get over it.


----------



## roux

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

he makes a valid point, essentially the other owners are paying for the lakers to develop a super team


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

How dare the Lakers try to save their own money. How dare they minimize their luxury tax payments that help fund other shitty, incompetent franchises.

Dan Gilbert going full retard. As usual.


----------



## Kneejoh

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

I was 100% against this trade from the Lakers point of view, but the reason for it getting nixed is impossible to actually believe as the truth. I don't know if people are choosing to be dull or they really don't see the collusion by owners and the power trip by David Stern. "It's about basketball reasons" Yea keep telling yourselves and everyone else lies, and unfortunately people will believe it because they don't want to believe they're being lied to.


----------



## roux

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Floods said:


> How dare the Lakers try to save their own money. How dare they ignore their duty to fund other shitty, incompetent franchises.
> 
> Dan Gilbert going full retard. As usual.


not just dan gilbert that this costs money, it costs all the owners money, when a trade is made where 28 of 29 owners lose money people are going to be upset


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



E.H. Munro said:


> Do you understand that that $21 million in luxury tax savings comes directly out of the pockets of the small market/under the cap teams? That's actually in addition to everything else the deal costs them in terms of plain cash and lost equity value. _And all to make the Busses even richer_. Can you give me one good reason that the other 28 owners should agree to that?


It wasn't about that or he would've *said* that. _You_ had to say that. He was pleading to Stern about the Lakers getting richer, not the burden they would collectively have to pay or he would have *said* that. 

As snarky as his email was why wouldn't he mention that instead of just bashing what the Lakers are getting the opportunity to do? *Because it's not about the finances, it's about another super team.*

Y'all are delusional. You're even going to try to backdoor this and imply for him because for whatever reason you're supporting this bitchmade decision.

In that article the Owners were crying foul because this Paul thing would be another instance of them doing what they want and forming super teams. It even mentioned how "nothing's changed".

You would think in an entire (long) article a professional journalist wrote, he would do the due diligence to cover all aspects. If *anyone* had said *anything* about the 76 million you don't think that would have been a supplemental paragraph to the report? Or did they just forget to call Ehmunro and HKF and ask your opinions like they usually do, because in that case, I apologize


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



thug_immortal8 said:


> "It's about basketball reasons" Yea keep telling yourselves and everyone else lies, and unfortunately people will believe it because they don't want to believe they're being lied to.


Come now. You really can't see Marc Cuban crying himself to sleep over the division rival Hornets being in cap hell and stuck in 32 win purgatory for the forseeable future?


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



roux2dope said:


> not just dan gilbert that this costs money, it costs all the owners money, when a trade is made where 28 of 29 owners lose money people are going to be upset


Yeah, because these deals never happen in the NBA.

How dare those Lakers pause at the chance to throw more of their money into the luxury tax system, the feeder for other incompetent franchises run by idiots like Gilbert!


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



thug_immortal8 said:


> I was 100% against this trade from the Lakers point of view, but the reason for it getting nixed is impossible to actually believe as the truth. I don't know if people are choosing to be dull or they really don't see the collusion by owners and the power trip by David Stern. "It's about basketball reasons" Yea keep telling yourselves and everyone else lies, and unfortunately people will believe it because they don't want to believe they're being lied to.


A vote by the co-owners is not collusion. They actually OWN the team and the contract.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> A vote by the co-owners is not collusion. They actually OWN the team and the contract.


And have vested interest in seeing Paul not become a Laker, for one reason or another.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

These 76 million hooligans are just parading around their opinions as fact. In this initial fallout noone has mentioned that in anywhere that can be sourced, in fact I've read Demps was praised for the haul.

And if you happen to find an article about that tomorrow after everyone has time to reflect on ancillary factors, congratulations, but it doesn't prove the initial backlash from the Owners was about anything but preventing the star system from perpetuating. Or else you'd be seeing that tonight.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



E.H. Munro said:


> Can you give me one good reason that the other 28 owners should agree to that?


because the guy they put in charge of making all the basketball decisions for the team says so?


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

That's a decent reason


----------



## roux

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Floods said:


> Yeah, because these deals never happen in the NBA.
> 
> How dare those Lakers pause at the chance to throw more of their money into the luxury tax system, the feeder for other incompetent franchises run by idiots like Gilbert!


so there is more than one league owned team in the nba making all these deals, you are talking about one team owned by all the owners making a deal with one owner and all but the one are losing money over. Calling teams incompetent is irrelevent and pointless cause it doesnt change the fact that the hornets are league property


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

So now we're under the belief that general managers are working with full autonomy? Since when?


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

We now have an email of Dan Gilbert wanting to kill the deal because he would lose luxury tax dollars from the Lakers? What a joke. You don't get to orchestrate other teams' rosters to the benefit of your wallet. This league has become a joke.


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

lmao @ Dan Gilbert..what a snitch :fail:


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Adam said:


> We now have an email of Dan Gilbert wanting to kill the deal because he would lose luxury tax dollars from the Lakers? What a joke. You don't get to orchestrate other teams' rosters to the benefit of your wallet. This league has become a joke.


Hey, this is what the league gets for not selling the team to Larry Ellison (who offered them 350 million). The problem was, he was moving the team to San Jose and the Warriors owners were scared shitless to lose the SJ market.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

It's tough because I don't really support the vetoing of trades unless there was obvious collusion to make it happen (like say if the trade goes through and then Demps gets hired as the Lakers GM the next day, something very blatant), but at the same time, I understand why it didn't. 

People got emotionally invested in a rumor, because that's really all this ever was. The trade never officially got put through to be nixed. The people who actually make the decisions didn't want to do the trade, so there never was a trade.

It's a shame New Orleans doesn't have an owner, would be interested to see how these trade talks would be handled.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> So now we're under the belief that general managers are working with full autonomy? Since when?


in a situation like this? absolutely. there should be an entity working entirely in the hornets self interest that is making decisions, not some vote of the other 29 teams.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> Hey, this is what the league gets for not selling the team to Larry Ellison (who offered them 350 million). The problem was, he was moving the team to San Jose and the Warriors owners were scared shitless to lose the SJ market.


I hear your. Not to brag but I saw this coming. How many times on this board in the past couple months have I said this team should have been contracted? The situation just sucks.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



roux2dope said:


> so there is more than one league owned team in the nba making all these deals, you are talking about one team owned by all the owners making a deal with one owner and all but the one are losing money over. Calling teams incompetent is irrelevent and pointless cause it doesnt change the fact that the hornets are league property


What makes Giltard and the other owners so much more special than the Lakers? That's the team they're apparently mooching off of. Why should the Lakers not be allowed to save money?

This deal was killed via collusion. A lot of NBA owners have a vested interest in seeing Chris Paul not become an LA Laker, for various reasons, all of them biased. And then Stern had his own pathetic reasons as well.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



> LakerNation
> So in conclusion, NBA owners want the Lakers revenue share money, but don't want the Lakers to be a championship team.


yup


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

Dan is just going to get vilified....not like he was the only owner thinking that way.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



BlakeJesus said:


> It's tough because I don't really support the vetoing of trades unless there was obvious collusion to make it happen (like say if the trade goes through and then Demps gets hired as the Lakers GM the next day, something very blatant), but at the same time, I understand why it didn't.





> People got emotionally invested in a rumor, because that's really all this ever was. The trade never officially got put through to be nixed. The people who actually make the decisions didn't want to do the trade, so there never was a trade.


Why would you make that first paragraph if you really believe this.

This was definitely a finished product, until it came time to pitch the Owners on it.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> yup


Lol must spread rep.


----------



## ChosenFEW

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

cp3 and a bunch of nobodies almost killed the lakers with bynum/gasol/odom.... length doesn't mean shit when you have the caliber of player that you were getting in paul.



some of you guys sound like the hawks and their reasoning for selecting marvin williams instead of cp3 during the draft.... 


and Danny G., Well played...... he's turning into one of those sith lord dudes from star wars


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HB said:


> Dan is just going to get vilified....not like he was the only owner thinking that way.


Heat owner on twitter:



> Whatever happens with @CP3 all I can say is I wish him the the best. A class act.


Coincidentally he isn't a member of Gilbert's Washington Generals club. Crazy coincidence, huh?


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

I was never emotionally invested in the Chris Paul stuff. I never even bought the Lakers talks until I saw it was already 'done'.


----------



## roux

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Floods said:


> What makes Giltard and the other owners so much more special than the Lakers? That's the team they're apparently mooching off of. Why should the Lakers not be allowed to save money?
> 
> This deal was killed via collusion. A lot of NBA owners have a vested interest in seeing Chris Paul not become an LA Laker, for various reasons, all of them biased. And then Stern had his own pathetic reasons as well.


yeah but the nba owners didnt force jerry buss to spend into the luxury tax, you can actually do that, you know not spend over the luxury line, now with this trade the lakers are A: getting a get out of jail free card from the luxury tax by a team owned by the other owners B: get one of the best young players in the league for two aging "stars"

In terms of the owners not want the lakers to make a super team i agree that probably has more to do with collusion, but from a business standpoint the have a valid arguement


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Dre said:


> Why would you make that first paragraph if you really believe this.
> 
> This was definitely a finished product, until it came time to pitch the Owners on it.


Unfortunately, until the owners signature is on the deal, it's not an official deal. He's right. The deal hadn't been "officially" done at all. The media said it was, but it's like a deal being done before physicals. There's a framework but until paperwork is signed, it's not official.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Adam said:


> Heat owner on twitter:
> 
> 
> 
> Coincidentally he isn't a member of Gilbert's Washington Generals club. Crazy coincidence, huh?


You and your owner probably wouldnt be saying this if you didn't have a superteam


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



roux2dope said:


> yeah but the nba owners didnt force jerry buss to spend into the luxury tax, you can actually do that, you know not spend over the luxury line, now with this trade the lakers are A: getting a get out of jail free card from the luxury tax by a team owned by the other owners B: get one of the best young players in the league for two aging "stars"
> 
> In terms of the owners not want the lakers to make a super team i agree that probably has more to do with collusion, *but from a business standpoint the have a valid arguement*


Why haven't they made it? 

"Basketball reasons"


----------



## Kneejoh

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

Again, I am completely against this trade, but if stuff like this is allowed to happen because the other team in a trade with the Hornets is perceived as the winner, then how will the Hornets ever be able to make a trade. If I'm one of the owners not involved, I've just been given the green light to keep Chris Paul in New Orleans until he is a free agent. If he gets traded again I just have to write a letter, mention some BS and then commish will take care of it. This league keeps losing fans daily with the greed and corruption brought on by both sides.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

Why does the owner of the team owe you an explanation?


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



roux2dope said:


> yeah but the nba owners didnt force jerry buss to spend into the luxury tax, you can actually do that, you know not spend over the luxury line, now with this trade the lakers are A: getting a get out of jail free card from the luxury tax by a team owned by the other owners


Via a completely valid deal that works under the CBA. That is not a 'get out of jail free card', that's a good trade.



> B: get one of the best young players in the league for two aging "stars"


Worse deals have happened, and not one of the NBA owners gives a shit about the on-the-court ramifications for the Hornets.



> In terms of the owners not want the lakers to make a super team i agree that probably has more to do with collusion, but from a business standpoint the have a valid arguement


Complaining because you can't leech off of another, more competent franchise than yours is not a valid argument. Try again.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

It was totally fair when Dan traded Ben Wallace and Pavlovic for Shaq. Or when he traded Z for Jamison and then re-signed him 30 days later....


----------



## Mrs. Thang

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Adam said:


> It was their bad basketball deal to make. It wasn't for Mark Cuban or Jimmy Dolan or whoever to decide the rosters of Houston/LA/New Orleans. That's the worst case scenario.
> 
> The league has already stated in the past that the Hornets management is responsible for all basketball related decisions.


Who is they? The GM and the coach? The guys who can't afford a rebuild in the eyes of whoever the next owner is?

I'm not against trading Chris Paul, but how does it make sense to trade him for mediocre players with crippling contracts? How do they not even get the best player in the deal?

Rondo, Westrbrook, Curry, Gordon... these are the types of guys they should be looking for in a Chris Paul trade. Not Louis Scola.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HB said:


> You and your owner probably wouldnt be saying this if you didn't have a superteam


No, I think he still would. Believe it or not, there are people out there who can see past their own nose when formulating opinions.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> Unfortunately, until the owners signature is on the deal, it's not an official deal. He's right. The deal hadn't been "officially" done at all. The media said it was, but it's like a deal being done before physicals. There's a framework but until paperwork is signed, it's not official.


Never said it was official and Paul was reporting to LA tommorow, just saying as far as the 3 teams go they had exhausted the negotiation, felt like they had the agreement to offer the league and it was out of their hands. 

It wasn't just some rumor that would get the whole league in arms like this, so he contradicted himself.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Mrs. Thang said:


> Who is they? The GM and the coach? The guys who can't afford a rebuild in the eyes of whoever the next owner is?
> 
> I'm not against trading Chris Paul, but how does it make sense to trade him for mediocre players with crippling contracts? How do they not even get the best player in the deal?
> 
> Rondo, Westrbrook, Curry, Gordon... these are the types of guys they should be looking for in a Chris Paul trade. Not Louis Scola.


The owners placed Dell Demps in charge of all basketball decisions. And not a single one of them gives the tiniest **** about how the Hornets' basketball fortunes look afterward.

Stop spamming the 'lol it wuz a bad trade NEwai' crap. It holds no water.


----------



## Mrs. Thang

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

I guess I'm the rare person who thinks this was a bad deal for New Orleans, a bad deal for LA, and a great deal for Houston.

Houston consolidated two terrible contracts into one terrible contract. The one player they were getting is better than the two they were letting go combined. They could hold onto Gasol, try to flip to a different contender, or amnesty him at a later date. No lose situation for them.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

This was a terrible deal for New Orleans. But it's completely irrelevant.


----------



## tdizzle

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Adam said:


> We now have an email of Dan Gilbert wanting to kill the deal because he would lose luxury tax dollars from the Lakers? What a joke. You don't get to orchestrate other teams' rosters to the benefit of your wallet. This league has become a joke.


Can we confirm that the email was written in Comic Sans?


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Floods said:


> The owners placed Dell Demps in charge of all basketball decisions.


Apparently they didn't. Feel bad for him. He thought he was a real NBA GM all of this time. If I were him I'd resign. Because what's the point?


----------



## Mrs. Thang

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Floods said:


> The owners placed Dell Demps in charge of all basketball decisions. And not a single one of them gives the tiniest **** about how the Hornets' basketball fortunes look afterward.
> 
> Stop spamming the 'lol it wuz a bad trade NEwai' crap. It holds no water.


They care about taking on 65 million in salary for mediocre players.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Mrs. Thang said:


> They care about taking on 65 million in salary for mediocre players.


Paid for by .......


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*










I wanna see one Owner/league source complaining about the Hornets taking on a gang of salary. 

I mean I see them complaining about competitive balance. If what y'all are saying holds weight let me see someone more qualified than you speak on it, tonight and tonight only.

Link me or so help me forever hold your opinion...


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Mrs. Thang said:


> They care about taking on 65 million in salary for mediocre players.


THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO INFLUENCE ANOTHER TEAM'S ROSTER.

The Hornets management was empowered to act in the best interests of the team. The way the CBA is designed they're trading dollar for dollar so your argument is garbage anyway. The team will be under new management in the future and even if it wasn't they don't have a say in the day to day operations of a competitor. This is the league they joined into and they're going to have to eat the losses with the Hornets as a group until it's finished.


----------



## roux

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Floods said:


> Via a completely valid deal that works under the CBA. That is not a 'get out of jail free card', that's a good trade.
> 
> 
> 
> Worse deals have happened, and not one of the NBA owners gives a shit about the on-the-court ramifications for the Hornets.
> 
> 
> 
> Complaining because you can't leech off of another, more competent franchise than yours is not a valid argument. Try again.


1.sure its fair under the cba but when it comes down to it any trade mad e by any team has to get approved by the owner if th 28 owners of the hornets are going to lose money on this its a deal that doesnt make sense for them financially

2. thats a valid point

3. once again it doesnt matter about how competent the team is in your eyes, mark cuban is going to lose money just the same as herb kohl


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Mrs. Thang said:


> They care about taking on 65 million in salary for mediocre players.


Doesn't matter. They're still a league rival that made a valid deal.


----------



## Mrs. Thang

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HB said:


> Paid for by .......


Huh? Paid for by the other 29 owners. That's the point. They don't want bad debt on the books of a team they are trying to sell.

Try to keep up.


----------



## HB

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Mrs. Thang said:


> Huh? Paid for by the other 29 owners. That's the point. They don't want bad debt on the books of a team they are trying to sell.
> 
> Try to keep up.


Lol I am actually with you on this.


----------



## Floods

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



roux2dope said:


> 1.sure its fair under the cba but when it comes down to it any trade mad e by any team has to get approved by the owner if th 28 owners of the hornets are going to lose money on this its a deal that doesnt make sense for them financially


Tough shit. Other clubs make a valid, completely legal deal. These other rival owners have a vested interest in seeing the deal die, for a multitude of reasons. Collusion.



> 3. once again it doesnt matter about how competent the team is in your eyes, mark cuban is going to lose money just the same as herb kohl


And neither one of them has the right to influence other team's rosters when they have zero involvement in the transaction.


----------



## Mrs. Thang

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Adam said:


> THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO INFLUENCE ANOTHER TEAM'S ROSTER.
> 
> The Hornets management was empowered to act in the best interests of the team. The way the CBA is designed they're trading dollar for dollar so your argument is garbage anyway. The team will be under new management in the future and even if it wasn't they don't have a say in the day to day operations of a competitor. This is the league they joined into and they're going to have to eat the losses with the Hornets as a group until it's finished.


They OWN the team! They can influence it in anyway they want!

It's a huge conflict of interest. I said that already. The NBA needs to find a buyer immediately.


----------



## Mrs. Thang

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

In the mean time, Chris Paul signed a lucrative contract to play in New Orleans so he can shut his ****ing mouth and honor it. He's been trying to play the good guy this whole time pretending like he wasn't forcing a trade, but as soon as he's denied an opportunity to go to L.A. he starts crying like Ha Seung-Jin and threatens to sue.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Mrs. Thang said:


> They OWN the team! They can influence it in anyway they want!


No, they can't. The NBA has already told the owners in the past that Dell Demps is acting in the best interests of New Orleans and he has the ability to make the trades and signings he wants to make.

Dan Gilbert does not run the Hornets. Shocking.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Floods said:


> And neither one of them has the right to influence other team's rosters when they have zero involvement in the transaction.


To play devil's advocate, as part of the 29 owner collective they have a right to say no because they don't want to share the long term salary, but since Gasol and Odom IRL aren't considered nearly as toast as they're suddenly thought about on here (funny some of the same people raving about the salary think the Lakers get worse), we're obviously led to believe it's about Paul, which just isn't right.


----------



## Mrs. Thang

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Adam said:


> No, they can't. The NBA has already told the owners in the past that Dell Demps is acting in the best interests of New Orleans and he has the ability to make the trades and signings he wants to make.
> 
> Dan Gilbert does not run the Hornets. Shocking.


He has the ability to make draft picks and run of the mill signings without intervention. He doesn't have the ability to trade the franchise player for 65 million dollars worth of terrible contracts and not expect resistance. Hell, he got resitance for trading for Carl Landry. How did he expect this to work out?

Maybe he should have checked with his owners before agreeing to this deal. That seems like the kind of thing 29 other NBA general managers would have to do.


----------



## Mrs. Thang

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Dre said:


> To play devil's advocate, as part of the 29 owner collective they have a right to say no because they don't want to share the long term salary, but since Gasol and Odom IRL aren't considered nearly as toast as they're suddenly thought about on here (funny some of the same people raving about the salary think the Lakers get worse), we're obviously led to believe it's about Paul, which just isn't right.


Gasol and Odom are extremely valuable to a team that has Kobe Bryant and Andrew Bynum. Not so much to a team that has Trevor Ariza and Emeka Okafor.


----------



## Adam

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Mrs. Thang said:


> He has the ability to make draft picks and run of the mill signings without intervention. He doesn't have the ability to trade the franchise player for 65 million dollars worth of terrible contracts and not expect resistance. Hell, he got resitance for trading for Carl Landry. How did he expect this to work out?
> 
> Maybe he should have checked with his owners before agreeing to this deal. That seems like the kind of thing 29 other NBA general managers would have to do.


Yes, he does have the ability to trade for those so-called "terrible contracts."

He is acting in the interests of the New Orleans Hornets. He has years of experience and he was the GM hired by the league and given that power.

Odom will be an expiring, they're getting draft picks, and he probably has a plan with the pieces. He has judged this to be the best deal and a good one for his team. Your opinion is just that, an opinion. The owners' opinion is worth even less because they're direct competitors and they have no say in the matter.

They're only owners in the Hornets in theory not in any directing capacity. The Hornets are a financial burden that they signed up for when they joined the association.

It's just like when a few years ago Burger King wanted to sell burgers for a while for $1 and a bunch of franchises didn't like it. Tough shit. You deal with the costs just like you reap the benefits.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


>


You think this shit is cute....but you're such a huuuge fan of the game. 

And can we please stop acting like Odom and Martin are just 38 year old balky kneed bums just to prove your point. Their value is getting worse every post. "Terrible" contracts? Really?

Y'all are acting like these guys are *nothing *but contracts all of a sudden. Yet you're the same people who think the Lakers got worse in the interim by doing this. Some of you want to have your cake and eat it too

I even saw knowledgeable Hornets fans saying they thought it was a decent deal.


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

just really feel bad for dell demps at this point. Its downright degrading to basically give a person a title but strip them of any authority when it comes to them trying to do their job. after 66 games when Paul opts out and signs somewhere, this will be a major talking point as the Hornets will have come away from nothing and thus a superstar dictated how the team he left behind was affected anyway.


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

And also, the hornets only have 5 players on their roster, and in order to reach the 85% cap minimum, they are going to be spending regardless. talking about anything aside from the contractual obligations of the players coming in for this trade outside of this season is over speculation, as theres no telling how soon an ownership group or individual may come forth.


----------



## Mrs. Thang

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Adam said:


> Yes, he does have the ability to trade for those so-called "terrible contracts."
> 
> He is acting in the interests of the New Orleans Hornets. He has years of experience and he was the GM hired by the league and given that power.
> 
> Odom will be an expiring, they're getting draft picks, and he probably has a plan with the pieces. He has judged this to be the best deal and a good one for his team. Your opinion is just that, an opinion. The owners' opinion is worth even less because they're direct competitors and they have no say in the matter.
> 
> They're only owners in the Hornets in theory not in any directing capacity. The Hornets are a financial burden that they signed up for when they joined the association.
> 
> It's just like when a few years ago Burger King wanted to sell burgers for a while for $1 and a bunch of franchises didn't like it. Tough shit. You deal with the costs just like you reap the benefits.


They are writing the checks that allows New Orleans to operate. That seems like a lot more than theory.

How many GM's fronting teams in the process of being sold are allowed to make deals like this? Look at the Detroit Pistons (the last team to be sold before the lockout). When was the last time they made a trade? Or even a free agent signing over the veterans minimum?


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Dre said:


> You think this shit is cute....but you're such a huuuge fan of the game.
> 
> And can we please stop acting like Odom and Martin are just 38 year old balky kneed bums just to prove your point. Their value is getting worse every post. "Terrible" contracts? Really?
> 
> Y'all are acting like these guys are *nothing *but contracts all of a sudden. Yet you're the same people who think the Lakers got worse in the interim by doing this. Some of you want to have your cake and eat it too
> 
> I even saw knowledgeable Hornets fans saying they thought it was a decent deal.


See, you don't get it. Their contracts are not valuable to a team that is OWNED by the league. This franchise has no future as it stands the NBA needs to find a buyer. You are adding hyperbole. I said their contracts are bad, which they are considering none is a star that will make the Hornets a winner, so they'd be better off bottoming out, starting fresh. Scola, Martin and Odom are great pieces on teams that are already good or near-good. Not middling, old teams going nowhere.

And I am not a fan of the game. I am a fan of the health of the league where all 30 teams have a chance to be viable. As I have said many times, the players are immaterial to me. I will move on.

Stop being emotional, it's only going to give you grey hairs.


----------



## Gonzo

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Tooeasy said:


> And also, the hornets only have 5 players on their roster, and in order to reach the 85% cap minimum, they are going to be spending regardless. talking about anything aside from the contractual obligations of the players coming in for this trade outside of this season is over speculation, as theres no telling how soon an ownership group or individual may come forth.


This is easily fixable though as they could easily trade for expiring contracts to meet the salary floor. Players like Chris Kaman come to mind (12 million expiring). Antwan Jamison is another.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> And I am not a fan of the game. I am a fan of the health of the league where all 30 teams have a chance to be viable. As I have said many times, the players are immaterial to me. I will move on.


you aren't a fan of basketball, you are a fan of the health of the nba? are you serious? there literally is no way you actually believe that statement.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Mrs. Thang said:


> Gasol and Odom are extremely valuable to a team that has Kobe Bryant and Andrew Bynum. Not so much to a team that has Trevor Ariza and Emeka Okafor.


 
It wasn't Gasol and Odom to NO, it was Odom, Kevin Martin and Scola.

Scola and Martin are two cogs on Rockets teams that fought hard and overachieved every year, Odom can still play.

Okafor
Scola/Odom
Martin
Ariza
Jack?

with Odom/Scola off the bench

Let's not act like that's a team that can't compete for the playoffs. HKF weren't you stumping about how important it was for the Bobcats to get swept recently? Just for Charlotte to experience the playoffs? Why does it change?

It's not like we're talking about a bunch of Derrick Coleman's who'll collect their paychecks and go home to eat. That's not a terrible team an Owner should cringe at. They can get into the playoffs. I know it's a terrible thing to win if you're not going to win the title apparently, but some organizations value being competitive, especially after trading your best asset.


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



> dgranger33 Due to the sabotaging of the LA/NO trade by david stern, and following in the footsteps of my athlete brethern Metta World Peace and Chad Ochocinco, I'm changing my last name to "Stern's Bi#&h" #effectiveimmediately


Wow :laugh:


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



> AlexKennedyNBA Alex Kennedy
> Uh oh. RT @Happywalters Getting asked by our players if they can change their vote on the CBA today.





> AlexKennedyNBA Alex Kennedy
> RT @Happywalters shocked by what NBA had done with the CP3 trade - players enraged.


...


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



rocketeer said:


> you aren't a fan of basketball, you are a fan of the health of the nba? are you serious? there literally is no way you actually believe that statement.


Yes, I am a fan of the health of the league. The league has a cancer and it's that the players have too much power.

I honestly don't care where Paul goes. He doesn't tip the balance of power at all (not like Lebron does). I just want the league I enjoy watching to be viable. I was one of the people who wanted to lose a season to correct it. I want unguaranteed contracts, players earning their money, the ability for guys to hold out for their rightful pay, hard salary cap. I want to cut the fat out of the NBA and I want to level the playing field (even though locations can never be level). That's all I care about. 

Players don't want that. Again, the players are the agents by which I watch the entities, which is the NBA. I watch the Finals regardless of who is in them. I am not sure why I have to defend what I believe because it doesn't change anything here. 

I have favorite players but once they are retired, I will find other players to enjoy watching play.


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> This is easily fixable though as they could easily trade for expiring contracts to meet the salary floor. Players like Chris Kaman come to mind (12 million expiring). Antwan Jamison is another.


Thats a lateral move though, as they can just wait for Chris to deny his player option after this season and sign somewhere else. This is generally going to hinder the interest in other teams calling to field offers aside from straight up lowballs, which won't help the cause either. This trade was an attempt to get a couple pieces for the future and some veterans that still have value and could be moved fairly easily around the league.


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> Yes, I am a fan of the health of the league. The league has a cancer and it's that the players have too much power.
> I was one of the people who wanted to lose a season to correct it. I want unguaranteed contracts, players earning their money, the ability for guys to hold out for their rightful pay, hard salary cap. I want to cut the fat out of the NBA and I want to level the playing field (even though locations can never be level). That's all I care about.
> 
> Players don't want that. Again, the players are the agents by which I watch the entities, which is the NBA. I watch the Finals regardless of who is in them. I am not sure why I have to defend what I believe because it doesn't change anything here.


I agree with most all of this sentiment for what its worth. More or less, this was the perfect shit storm in terms of the hornets being league owned, discussion about small market vulnerability prior to the new CBA, player leverage, etc. Still, I feel like if this move was made and in the middle of last season things would have played out much differently. Hornets own fault for hanging on to Paul considering his motives have been fairly visible for a while now.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



> Let's not act like that's a team that can't compete for the playoffs. HKF weren't you stumping about how important it was for the Bobcats to get swept recently? Just for Charlotte to experience the playoffs? Why does it change?


It was important for the city of Charlotte, since the Bobcats were a joke as an expansion team under Bob Johnson. Come on Dre. It was to have the people of Charlotte come back to supporting the team, which everyone knows they are capable of doing. Sold out a 20K arena for over a decade. They needed a reason to come back to the NBA. 

Look I get it, you guys love these players, but one day you're going to get older and see these guys are just actors and all actors age and get replaced. Maybe working in Hollywood has jaded me, but it's true and I say this as someone who works with producers.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> See, you don't get it. Their contracts are not valuable to a team that is OWNED by the league. This franchise has no future as it stands the NBA needs to find a buyer. You are adding hyperbole. I said their contracts are bad, which they are considering none is a star that will make the Hornets a winner, so they'd be better off bottoming out, starting fresh. Scola, Martin and Odom are great pieces on teams that are already good or near-good. Not middling, old teams going nowhere.


What do you think of the Rockets in recent years? I for one was impressed a well coached group of vets could continuously find ways to overachieve during the season. I think Houston was better served with that product than a team that won 25 games and clung to lottery rosaries.

And once again, for the 50eleventh time, it was not about the contracts. Demps got praised for this deal.



> And I am not a fan of the game. I am a fan of the health of the league where all 30 teams have a chance to be viable. As I have said many times, the players are immaterial to me. I will move on.


Even to the extent of the Owners and Stern nixing deals to keep everyone else viable? 



> Stop being emotional, it's only going to give you grey hairs.


**** that, I'll be dignified. This is wrong and I feel some kind of way about it. I invest a lot of interest and everything else into the NBA and I deserve to see a product run free of self interest. 

So Yeah I Mad


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Tooeasy said:


> I agree with most all of this sentiment for what its worth. More or less, this was the perfect shit storm in terms of the hornets being league owned, discussion about small market vulnerability prior to the new CBA, player leverage, etc. Still, I feel like if this move was made and in the middle of last season things would have played out much differently. Hornets own fault for hanging on to Paul considering his motives have been fairly visible for a while now.


Man, they would have traded him to Golden State for cap space and three young players (Curry, rookie Klay Thompson and second year big Udoh). None older than 24 years of age. But he doesn't want to play there. So I guess in both cases, they are 1 for 1 in terms of killing deals. Am I right?

Like from a competitive standpoint, if Paul was willing to go to Indiana (they have capspace and young, good talent), they could do damage. He doesn't want that. So why should they give him what he wants? That goes for any player. You want to leave, take 20-40 million less. Good luck buddy. I wish NBA teams would stop signing and trading, it only makes them worse in the long run.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> Look I get it, you guys love these players, but one day you're going to get older and see these guys are just actors and all actors age and get replaced. Maybe working in Hollywood has jaded me, but it's true and I say this as someone who works with producers.


i'm not sure why you're under the impression that anyone gives a shit about these players. that's entirely irrelevant to the situation.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Dre said:


> What do you think of the Rockets in recent years? I for one was impressed a well coached group of vets could continuously find ways to overachieve during the season. I think Houston was better served with that product than a team that won 25 games and clung to lottery rosaries.


I feel the Rockets were a healthy Yao Ming away from being a 60 win team. Sad he never was healthy. Same thing happened to Portland and Oden/Roy. See that is something you can't plan for, but before injuries they were headed to special seasons.



> And once again, for the 50eleventh time, it was not about the contracts. Demps got praised for this deal.


I see that, but personally I think for the Hornets it's a bad deal. West is gone. Ariza, Jack, Scola, Martin, Odom, Okafor, Pondexter. Man, that is a team that would look pretty good if you had oh I don't know, Chris Paul. But on it's own, the team is bad.





> Even to the extent of the Owners and Stern nixing deals to keep everyone else viable?


This is a special situation. 29 owners own the team. You can't just say the Lakers and Rockets wanna make a deal so who cares what the others think. People want to vilify Gilbert (and rightfully so), but if the other owners voted 22-7 to veto the deal, then oh well. 

A trade between Houston and Los Angeles couldn't be vetoed because it only affects Houston and LA's bottom line.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

Dan Gilbert is an idiot. First he whines the trade isn't right because the Lakers are saving money, then he goes on to say they might use a trade exception to spend more money in a Howard trade. 

But he does make it clear it's all about not being able to compete with the Lakers. If it is about paying for the Hornets salaries, why didn't he mention it? Not once did he mention the Hornet salaries. 

It's just jealousy and incompetence.


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> Man, they would have traded him to Golden State for cap space and three young players (Curry, rookie Klay Thompson and second year big Udoh). None older than 24 years of age. But he doesn't want to play there. So I guess in both cases, they are 1 for 1 in terms of killing deals. Am I right?
> 
> Like from a competitive standpoint, if Paul was willing to go to Indiana (they have capspace and young, good talent), they could do damage. He doesn't want that. So why should they give him what he wants? That goes for any player. You want to leave, take 20-40 million less. Good luck buddy. I wish NBA teams would stop signing and trading, it only makes them worse in the long run.


Thats exactly it, I was receptive to the chatter of the GS deal, but Paul has the leverage and spread the word that he wouldn't be resigning with them. Obviously the Warriors would be foolish to toss a youth movement out the door for a one year rental that for damn sure wouldn't get them a finals appearance. Thats why I agree with your sentiments about the players having to much of a voice, but in this case, the hornets getting anything back (expirings, long contracts, pick, etc) is a win for the league as a whole, and not the players. I'm sure this was the best deal on the table, and the Hornets pulled the trigger accordingly.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> It was important for the city of Charlotte, since the Bobcats were a joke as an expansion team under Bob Johnson. Come on Dre. It was to have the people of Charlotte come back to supporting the team, which everyone knows they are capable of doing. Sold out a 20K arena for over a decade. They needed a reason to come back to the NBA.
> 
> Look I get it, you guys love these players, but one day you're going to get older and see these guys are just actors and all actors age and get replaced. Maybe working in Hollywood has jaded me, but it's true and I say this as someone who works with producers.


Don't try to play me like I'm being young and naive. It has nothing to do with Chris Paul. It could be Chris Douglas Roberts and I'm still going to be in here saying the NBA has no right to be rejecting deals because they don't like a particular team getting over. And you guys just keep with the contract excuse except noone's saying that but you guys in here. 

I'm all for parity but I want it the right way, not with Stern saying "whoa, whoa that's not fair".


----------



## ChosenFEW

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


>


YOOOOOOOOOOO


LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL



you just made my night


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

Just now listening to the Lamar Odom interview, holy shit... Wonder what the clippers would've given up for him in a four way deal??


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> This is a special situation. 29 owners own the team. You can't just say the Lakers and Rockets wanna make a deal so who cares what the others think. People want to vilify Gilbert (and rightfully so), but if the other owners voted 22-7 to veto the deal, then oh well.
> 
> A trade between Houston and Los Angeles couldn't be vetoed because it only affects Houston and LA's bottom line.


If this was Trevor Ariza for say Odom noone would give a shit though. It's only about Paul.

And yeah, "oh well", that's the system, but that doesn't mean it's right.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

Every decision made by individual owners in the league impact the other owners. So maybe we should just let them vote on every decision, right?


----------



## Duck

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

jesus. how hard is it to comprehend whats going on here.


----------



## Dre

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



> Ric Bucher: Reports are owners squashed Hou-LA-NO deal, citing conflict of interest for NBA-owned NO. But sources say Pau didn't want to go to Hou, too.


You guys should at least go with this one. At least this is in print. Pau killed it!


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

Stern has opened up a very large can of worms.

I guess any owner of any team can now protest any other team's trade and have an audience to the protest.


----------



## HKF

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Paul is the franchise. You don't trade the franchise for garbage when the league (other owners) owns the team. Special situation. And yes it's garbage, because it's high-impact expenses (contracts), low-impact revenues (no marketability, not a great team). At least with Paul walking okay. How could anyone call this even a passable deal if Okafor and Ariza aren't included as well. If the Hornets got back all expiring contracts and young picks, I would be singing a different tune. 

The Lakers only have overpaid garbage. You don't realize that Gasol is not worth 21 million dollars on any other team right? Houston would be in the same situation Memphis was in with him. Second banana paid star money.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Dre said:


> You guys should at least go with this one. At least this is in print. Pau killed it!


Yeah, who really wants to leave the Lakers?

But the statement is a non-issue. Pau doesn't have a say as to where he is traded.


----------



## HKF

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Ron said:


> Stern has opened up a very large can of worms.
> 
> I guess any owner of any team can now protest any other team's trade and have an audience to the protest.


:whofarted 

This was a trade where ALL the owners are involved (as they ALL own the Hornets). Ron, catch up please.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

So is the NBA going to veto any transaction that adds to the Hornets luxury tax bill? Or just the ones that involve competent GM's?


----------



## rocketeer

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

you can continue saying the hornets were only receiving garbage as much as you want but it's never going to make it true.


----------



## HKF

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

The last thing I wanna say on this before watch Community and The Office. Only diehard NBA fans seem to care about this. No one else really does. Once Sunday wheels around, it isn't gonna matter. And if he's willing to not report to training camp and get fined, well that's just stupid. You've already lost money on the lockout, why lose more.


----------



## HKF

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



rocketeer said:


> you can continue saying the hornets were only receiving garbage as much as you want but it's never going to make it true.


So please explain why you think it was a good deal? I'm listening.


----------



## Kneejoh

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*

If the plan was to nix any deal the Hornets made all along then the mistake was made by the geniuses that run the NBA in letting the other owners own the Hornets as well. As it stands, one GM was placed in charge of basketball operations for the team and as everyone knows that he is making decisions without any bias or collusion. Therefore his decision shouldn't be allowed to be vetoed by the league on the grounds that they don't like it because it is a bad financial situation. (read: "makes the Lakers better" which it doesn't but is besides the point) If the plan all along was to allow this then the other owners should have never taken over the Hornets. As well there isn't anyone here who can say that the 29 owners actually give a shit about what New Orleans gets back, they only care about the Lakers getting Paul. Going off of this since Demps was given the title of GM and since this is not like any other situation where a GM goes to their owner for approval (how are 29 men supposed to agree on a trade in which one will be losing, another winning, and 27 will not let it happen because that 1 might win the trade) then Demps is the only one in this situation that has the Hornets' best interest at heart. Everybody else is only worried about their own teams and are using the Hornets and Paul as leverage in keeping the status quo. This is why I can't understand how people can honestly believe that the other owners are in the right when they are only doing this for selfish reasons and trying to pass it off as helping the Hornets and the league. I repeat, the only person in this situation that has the Hornets best interests in mind is Dell Demps, everyone else is in the wrong and yet the only person that is right is not allowed to do anything. Something is wrong with that picture whether you are a fan of the game, a team, a player or just casual.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> :whofarted
> 
> This was a trade where ALL the owners are involved (as they ALL own the Hornets). Ron, catch up please.


You catch up.

They can't give the Hornets' GM full power to enact trades and then take that power away. This entire sequence this evening was a joke.

By doing this, the owners have ensured that Paul cannot be traded at all this season, and the Hornets will get NOTHING for him when he walks at the end of the season. How is that in the best interest for the Hornets? Explain that, eh?

Oh, by the way, Paul has retained legal counsel and is refusing to go to Hornets' camp tomorrow. You need to get a clue...the league got a very black eye tonight.


----------



## Dre

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HKF said:


> Paul is the franchise. You don't trade the franchise for garbage when the league (other owners) owns the team. Special situation. And yes it's garbage, because it's high-impact expenses (contracts), low-impact revenues (no marketability, not a great team). At least with Paul walking okay. How could anyone call this even a passable deal if Okafor and Ariza aren't included as well. If the Hornets got back all expiring contracts and young picks, I would be singing a different tune.
> 
> The Lakers only have overpaid garbage. You don't realize that Gasol is not worth 21 million dollars on any other team right? Houston would be in the same situation Memphis was in with him. Second banana paid star money.


Well at least you're admitting now it's about Paul's stature. 

Even still I think it's BS. I don't care if I was the Clippers owner, I'm letting it pass because it's really not my business, and it's not worth being butthurt and looking corrupt for what 1-2 years of sharing the Hornets' burden. How long is it really going to take to find a buyer.

How does it go from the Hornets don't plan to have him at training camp to he won't be traded this year? How? How does the league office OK the Lakers, Rockets and Hornets at every juncture they ask, then when it's a finished product say nevermind? Why even let Demps talk about him when you're going to say "nevermind, conflict of interest". Like huh. 

At worst it's corruption at best it's classic incompetence and buffoonish miscommunication. League can't get out of this one looking good however you slice it, viability be damned

I have to go to sleep now


----------



## HKF

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

The black eye from the people who are always on message boards talking about the league. Yawn. They know you aren't going anywhere. They know you will be there, so they don't even worry about you (myself included).


----------



## Dre

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HKF said:


> The last thing I wanna say on this before watch Community and The Office. Only diehard NBA fans seem to care about this. No one else really does. Once Sunday wheels around, it isn't gonna matter.


What does that have to do with anything. We're all well aware noone really cares about the NBA. What point are you making here

That if this was Maurice Jones Drew to the Packers fans would picket and get it pushed it through anyway :whoknows:


----------



## HKF

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Dre said:


> Well at least you're admitting now it's about Paul's stature.
> 
> Even still I think it's BS. I don't care if I was the Clippers owner, I'm letting it pass because it's really not my business, and it's not worth being butthurt and looking corrupt for what 1-2 years of sharing the Hornets' burden. How long is it really going to take to find a buyer.
> 
> How does it go from the Hornets don't plan to have him at training camp to he won't be traded this year? How? How does the league office OK the Lakers, Rockets and Hornets at every juncture they ask, then when it's a finished product say nevermind? Why even let Demps talk about him when you're going to say "nevermind, conflict of interest". Like huh.
> 
> At worst it's corruption at best it's *classic incompetence and buffoonish miscommunication. *League can't get out of this one looking good however you slice it, viability be damned
> 
> I have to go to sleep now


You just saw the lockout did you not? This is par for the course in the NBA. Stern is a genius though, getting people talking about the NBA by hook or by crook. We hadn't had a thread get this big this fast in a while.


----------



## Dre

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HKF said:


> The black eye from the people who are always on message boards talking about the league. Yawn. They know you aren't going anywhere. They know you will be there, so they don't even worry about you (myself included).


lol why are you trying to act like you're Tim Frank. Do you work for the league or something.

Is this condoning BS because they can get away with it now? Really B


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HKF said:


> The black eye from the people who are always on message boards talking about the league. Yawn. They know you aren't going anywhere. They know you will be there, so they don't even worry about you (myself included).


You are the one who is not keeping up, HKF. If you had been, you would have known that I didn't give a shit whether there was a season or not this year.

The good thing that there is a season is this board is active again. That's all I care about. And seeing this active thread warms my heart.

And if you don't think that the NBA doesn't care about its reputation, I have a point guard in New Orleans I would like to trade to your favorite team.

Oh, wait. :|


----------



## Dre

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HKF said:


> You just saw the lockout did you not? This is par for the course in the NBA. Stern is a genius though, getting people talking about the NBA by hook or by crook. We hadn't had a thread get this big this fast in a while.


So now it's a ploy for headlines

I give up


----------



## HKF

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Dre said:


> lol why are you trying to act like you're Tim Frank. Do you work for the league or something.
> 
> Is this condoning the BS because they can get away with it now? Really B


I don't have a dog in the race. I'm just having fun. It does go along with my theory though that NBA fans for the most part care more about trades and player movement than care about actual basketball, which is odd because these same fans also think unguaranteed contracts are bad because it would create too much movement. Yet all anyone ever wants to talk about are signings and trade.

Make a thread about a team playing good basketball or making internal improvements and the shit gets ignored. NBA is like the ultimate fantasy league.


----------



## rocketeer

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HKF said:


> So please explain why you think it was a good deal? I'm listening.


a team with jack, martin, ariza, scola, odom, okafor, and dragic can have just as much success as the hornets had lately with chris paul. you keep calling it garbage but it actually is 3 pretty good players none of which are on a bad contract(and then dragic who is a solid backup pg).

and as you said, all they players they were receiving are attractive pieces for good teams, so it's not like they couldn't flip them for other assets at some point if needed.

the hornets could have done much worse, plenty of teams have done much worse in the past, and just because they don't want to buy into your theory of tearing the team completely to the ground, running off any fans they might have, and hoping they can get lucky and land a star who will just want to leave that shitty situation in a few years anyway doesn't mean that it's a bad deal.


----------



## Eternal

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HKF said:


> You just saw the lockout did you not? This is par for the course in the NBA. Stern is a genius though, getting people talking about the NBA by hook or by crook. We hadn't had a thread get this big this fast in a while.


This thread would've been this big regardless if he went to LA or not. It's also not as big as it appears, seeing as this is a year and a half thread in progress.


----------



## HKF

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

I'm talking the site activity rather than "posts" in this particular thread.


----------



## Dre

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



> Eric Pincus: Wait - re: Gilbert - upset Lakers aren't spending money and also upset they have a trade exception to spend money? I'm confused


:2ti:

Gilbert is a clown



> David Brickley: If Pau Gasol could not handle a reported "girlfriend issue" during the 2011 playoffs...how does he take the Lakers wanting to ship him out?


Good point. Odom sounds hurt too but I think he'll get over it. Think about how lucky you are during some Khloe forehead


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



> *KBergCBS*
> For those wondering why all chatter stopped: After trade nixed, all league business effectively halted. GMs/agents didn't know what to do.
> 5 minutes ago


Totally predictable.



> *KBergCBS*
> Damn! Fresh Direct guy just barged into my apartment and took all the food out of my fridge. "Basketball reasons," he said with a shrug.
> 4 hours ago


:lol:


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

"Basketball reasons."

That is my new catch-all phrase to my boss when he gets upset at something I did (or did not do).

Wonder how far it will get me. 

Mike Bass has reached *MORON* status. Congratulations, Mike.


----------



## Dre

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



> Ryan Wolstat: As I wrote, it's hilarious that the owners hated this trade so much. Dwight one would have been so much worse for league.
> 
> Lakers were going to bank on a bunch of dudes with knee issues and give up two key pieces to do it. Hornets got decent return


They're saying some players might sit out the first day of training camp. This isn't something that's going to just blow over. 

If the Lakers got another star that's one thing, but the league putting it's paws in it is an even bigger story on different levels.


----------



## Kneejoh

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

boo urns to the nba


----------



## Dre

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

I don't agree with people saying this effects Dwight's situation though, the other Owners have no stake in what the Magic and 1-3 other teams might do. 

If they try to get in Stern's ear and make him veto that though....then...shit gets really real.


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

"Basketball reasons" is the 2011 version of "taking my talents to south beach." It's on fire.

Check it out...no less than 37 "early adopters" for the newest idiotic quote coming from the NBA:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...t-nba-stern-basketball-reasons_n_1138364.html


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

I still just don't get why the Lakers aren't allowed to trade for Chris Paul. Everyone and their mama knows that if the Warriors made this trade, not one of those owners would have complained. THAT is why this is horseshit. It's a witch hunt and the Lakers are the witch.

**** this league. I've never been so...I don't even know...depressed(?), down(?), miserable(?) over the NBA as this - not even during the lockout. This is just a disgrace. Get your dirty little paws out of this trade and out of this league. The fact that they're now saying that he made this decision as Commissioner of the NBA makes it 100x worse than if he had rejected it as "owner of the Hornets".


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Ron said:


> "Basketball reasons" is the 2011 version of "taking my talents to south beach." It's on fire.
> 
> Check it out...no less than 37 "early adopters" for the newest idiotic quote coming from the NBA:
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...t-nba-stern-basketball-reasons_n_1138364.html





> Wish Shaq was still playing so he could dub himself "The Big Basketball Reasons." #basketballreasons


:laugh:

Mike Bass, you now have your 15 minutes of fame...revel in it, moron. Hmmmmm, maybe he is "#basketballreasons"


----------



## Dre

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



> That's why the Hornets wanted to deal Paul for four potential starters. By recognizing they weren't likely to sign free agents, especially while they wait to be sold by the NBA to a private buyer, the Hornets used their cap space to turn Paul's $16.4 million salary into $31.1 million in credible talent.
> 
> The acquisitions of Lamar Odom from the Lakers and Luis Scola from the Rockets would have absolved New Orleans from re-signing free agent David West. Newcomer Goran Dragic would have joined incumbent Jarrett Jack to fill in for Paul at the point, and 6-foot-7 shooting guard Kevin Martin averaged 23.5 points for the Rockets in 80 games last season. That core would have been supplemented by starting small forward Trevor Ariza, backup guard Willie Green and center Emeka Okafor, whose large salary could be put out to amnesty (likely after the team is sold) to provide the Hornets with potential cap space next summer.
> 
> The bottom-line goal of this trade was to protect the investment of the 29 NBA owners in the Hornets.
> 
> I wonder if these owners understand that the Hornets are now one of the best-managed franchises in the NBA. Over the last year they've engaged in a highly-personalized campaign to reach out to current and potential season-ticket holders in what should have been a hopeless situation. In the aftermath of a devastating hurricane and oil spill, in the midst of a recession and a lockout, and in spite of the unsettled ownership and highly-publicized rumors that both Paul and the franchise would be moving to other cities, the Hornets dramatically increased their sale of season tickets over the recent year. Those sales have surpassed 10,000, a remarkable achievement that has further inspired the pursuit of an improved lease and a sale to a buyer who will keep the franchise in New Orleans.
> 
> During this perfect storm of merging crises, the Hornets have established new standards for bonding with their customers under Jac Sperling, the NBA-appointed franchise chairman, team president Hugh Weber and Stern himself. They have created a new playbook for marketing success that undoubtedly will be copied by other franchises. Given the dubious circumstances by which the NBA took control of the franchise 12 months ago, the turnaround of the Hornets is nothing less than an enormous triumph for the league.
> 
> Has that triumph now been undermined?
> 
> This is a difficult set of circumstances that created a choice of lousy options with no happy outcome. By enabling the trade to the Lakers, many owners -- along with many Hornets fans who wouldn't want to deal Paul under any circumstances, and especially to Los Angeles -- would have been infuriated.
> 
> By disabling the trade, however, what are the prospects for the Hornets now? Demps and the Hornets were making the best of a bad situation and hoping to remain competitive following their proposed trade of Paul, much as the Nuggets competed successfully after their trade of Anthony. Now, instead, they face the possibility of playing out this season with a star that is certain to leave at the end of the year. And when he goes, he may sign outright with the Knicks, another big-market team, which will leave the Hornets with nothing in return.
> 
> Weren't many of the owners hoping the new CBA would prevent the kind of fiasco that was suffered by Cleveland when James left? They may have consigned the Hornets, a team they themselves own, to the same sorry fate. And they may have damaged their own investment along the way.
> 
> They need to find a new owner for the Hornets. Quickly.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...ets.need.new.owners/index.html?sct=nba_t11_a0


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Taking this from another board...it makes a whole lot of sense...
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"Not sure if it's on ESPN yet but I got some info that should go public within a few hours. 

Chris Paul, his agent and the teams involved will threaten to file an appeal if the trade isn't re-approved by the league. 

Okay basically, they are going to say that the owners and Stern have no say in this. I'll try to interpret it from a more understandable point of view without all the legal terms. 

1) All 29 owners can not have a say in who and where any player goes on New Orleans because it's a conflict of interest. 
2) For this reason, a mediator should be chosen. That person is Dell Demps. 
3) He was chosen to avoid that conflict. 
4) He has the fiduciary duty to make decisions that will maximize the return to the principle (NBA & owners). 
5) Due to the conflict of interest, the NBA or the owners cannot have a say or question the mediator's authority as it negates the purpose of the original agreement. 
6) It is therefore a beach of contract by Stern (NBA) due to voir dire. 

Voir dire is a legal term which means "participants are demonstrating bias reasoning in nullifying the original agreement". 

It's complicated but basically, Stern has no right to veto anything. He owns the Hornets and because he is the commissioner of the NBA; it's a conflict of interest for him (and the the owners) to have a say in anything general managers do because they are agents of the owners and are responsible for improving their respective teams. 

Apparently Jim Buss was furious, he swore at Stern and Hunter over the phone minutes after he heard the news and said "Take him off the block until July, ****." 

Supporting this thought is this from Larry **** on twitter: 

My man 24 nailed it "The fertile area here is conflict of interest. When the league took over the team, they appointed a caretaker 
..exactly to avoid that conflict. Now they've trumped the organization. The only way the league (and its owners) avoid a conflict argument 
..is by keeping an arms length through a trustee or manager, and that requires autonomy."


----------



## Kneejoh

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Pretty much what most of us have been saying in here, but there's certain people that want to disregard that Demps was appointed to make basketball decisions.


----------



## Adam

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Damian Necronamous said:


> Taking this from another board...it makes a whole lot of sense...
> *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
> 
> "Not sure if it's on ESPN yet but I got some info that should go public within a few hours.
> 
> Chris Paul, his agent and the teams involved will threaten to file an appeal if the trade isn't re-approved by the league.
> 
> Okay basically, they are going to say that the owners and Stern have no say in this. I'll try to interpret it from a more understandable point of view without all the legal terms.
> 
> 1) All 29 owners can not have a say in who and where any player goes on New Orleans because it's a conflict of interest.
> 2) For this reason, a mediator should be chosen. That person is Dell Demps.
> 3) He was chosen to avoid that conflict.
> 4) He has the fiduciary duty to make decisions that will maximize the return to the principle (NBA & owners).
> 5) Due to the conflict of interest, the NBA or the owners cannot have a say or question the mediator's authority as it negates the purpose of the original agreement.
> 6) It is therefore a beach of contract by Stern (NBA) due to voir dire.
> 
> Voir dire is a legal term which means "participants are demonstrating bias reasoning in nullifying the original agreement".
> 
> It's complicated but basically, Stern has no right to veto anything. He owns the Hornets and because he is the commissioner of the NBA; it's a conflict of interest for him (and the the owners) to have a say in anything general managers do because they are agents of the owners and are responsible for improving their respective teams.
> 
> Apparently Jim Buss was furious, he swore at Stern and Hunter over the phone minutes after he heard the news and said "Take him off the block until July, ****."
> 
> Supporting this thought is this from Larry **** on twitter:
> 
> My man 24 nailed it "The fertile area here is conflict of interest. When the league took over the team, they appointed a caretaker
> ..exactly to avoid that conflict. Now they've trumped the organization. The only way the league (and its owners) avoid a conflict argument
> ..is by keeping an arms length through a trustee or manager, and that requires autonomy."


I've been saying that since the beginning. Basically, I was right again? Standard.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



HKF said:


> :whofarted
> 
> This was a trade where ALL the owners are involved (as they ALL own the Hornets). Ron, catch up please.


Did they all vote tonight? I did not see a quorum. All I heard was that some owners were apoplectic and complained to Stern about those big bad Lakers and Stern capitulated.

The whole thing is crap. And the league looks like a total joke tonight...trying to explain the veto as "basketball reasons." The NBA must think we all have two-digit IQs. Moronic.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Like that post I quoted said, how can the other owners have a say in the Hornets' moves? That's a complete conflict of interest. Why would they ever approve a trade that helped the Hornets if they had that kind of power?

If Dell Demps was hired by the league as the Hornets GM then doesn't he have the power of a mediator? How can anyone with an obvious conflict of interest supercede him? This whole stinking thing makes absolutely no sense. What a black stain on the league.

It can't be over...


----------



## Dre

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Thing is where are items 1-3 on that list written in stone? What legal paperwork or decree do they have that states that firmly enough to win an appeal


----------



## MemphisX

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Follow the money...the other owners could give a crap about Paul to LA, they are pissed about the $20 million in luxury tax payments the Lakers get out of with that trade.


----------



## Basel

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*










**** David Stern. **** the owners. **** the NBA.


----------



## Basel

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

I haven't read this thread yet but did anyone see Danny Granger's tweet about this?


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



MemphisX said:


> Follow the money...the other owners could give a crap about Paul to LA, they are pissed about the $20 million in luxury tax payments the Lakers get out of with that trade.


So the Lakers aren't allowed to save money? I don't get it. I thought they wanted to even out the disparity in team payrolls...


----------



## MemphisX

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Damian Necronamous said:


> I still just don't get why the Lakers aren't allowed to trade for Chris Paul. Everyone and their mama knows that if the Warriors made this trade, not one of those owners would have complained. THAT is why this is horseshit. It's a witch hunt and the Lakers are the witch.
> 
> **** this league. I've never been so...I don't even know...depressed(?), down(?), miserable(?) over the NBA as this - not even during the lockout. This is just a disgrace. Get your dirty little paws out of this trade and out of this league. The fact that they're now saying that he made this decision as Commissioner of the NBA makes it 100x worse than if he had rejected it as "owner of the Hornets".





Damian Necronamous said:


> So the Lakers aren't allowed to save money? I don't get it. I thought they wanted to even out the disparity in team payrolls...



No, sorry, the other owners do not want to subsidize the Lakers saving money AND getting Chris Paul.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



MemphisX said:


> No, sorry, the other owners do not want to subsidize the Lakers saving money AND getting Chris Paul.


So the Lakers are not allowed to make trades that make their team better? Right, got it.

It's called good business, people. It's something that most NBA owners know nothing about, which is why we had a 150-day lockout in the first place.

Also, the Heat must just be sitting at the top of their ivory tower laughing at all this. If trades like this can't happen then Miami will indeed win the next 3-4 rings.


----------



## eddymac

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

The league owns the hornets so if they want to nix a deal it's within their right. 


Laker fans deal with it.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Damian Necronamous said:


> Taking this from another board...it makes a whole lot of sense...
> *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
> 
> "Not sure if it's on ESPN yet but I got some info that should go public within a few hours.
> 
> Chris Paul, his agent and the teams involved will threaten to file an appeal if the trade isn't re-approved by the league.
> 
> Okay basically, they are going to say that the owners and Stern have no say in this. I'll try to interpret it from a more understandable point of view without all the legal terms.
> 
> 1) All 29 owners can not have a say in who and where any player goes on New Orleans because it's a conflict of interest.
> 2) For this reason, a mediator should be chosen. That person is Dell Demps.
> 3) He was chosen to avoid that conflict.
> 4) He has the fiduciary duty to make decisions that will maximize the return to the principle (NBA & owners).
> 5) Due to the conflict of interest, the NBA or the owners cannot have a say or question the mediator's authority as it negates the purpose of the original agreement.
> 6) It is therefore a beach of contract by Stern (NBA) due to voir dire.
> 
> Voir dire is a legal term which means "participants are demonstrating bias reasoning in nullifying the original agreement".
> 
> It's complicated but basically, Stern has no right to veto anything. He owns the Hornets and because he is the commissioner of the NBA; it's a conflict of interest for him (and the the owners) to have a say in anything general managers do because they are agents of the owners and are responsible for improving their respective teams.
> 
> Apparently Jim Buss was furious, he swore at Stern and Hunter over the phone minutes after he heard the news and said "Take him off the block until July, ****."
> 
> Supporting this thought is this from Larry **** on twitter:
> 
> My man 24 nailed it "The fertile area here is conflict of interest. When the league took over the team, they appointed a caretaker
> ..exactly to avoid that conflict. Now they've trumped the organization. The only way the league (and its owners) avoid a conflict argument
> ..is by keeping an arms length through a trustee or manager, and that requires autonomy."


This won't matter, because in the end it was David Stern acting in his role as commissioner that blocked the trade, not the owners of the Hornets. It's within the commissioner's discretion to nullify the trade if he feels it's against the best interests of basketball.


----------



## Noyze

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Is it true that earlier today on ESPN 710 radio David Mcmennamin (Laker writer and connected to the team) said sources say Gasol's agent (Tellem) rallied the owners to kill the deal?


----------



## futuristxen

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Never mind that the whole reason that the Lakers could make the "best offer" was because CP3 was refusing to go anywhere else. This was a CAA power move that just got checked. It's like secret wars out there.


----------



## futuristxen

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

If the goal of the Hornets as a franchise is to sell the team, how was this deal going to make them more attractive to buyers? They took on salary to be a mediocre team. The pick they got was pretty much worthless.


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

The trade wasn't good for the hornets from a basketball stand point either. Only folks who like this trade are Lakers fans, let's be realistic.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Ron said:


> Did they all vote tonight? I did not see a quorum. All I heard was that some owners were apoplectic and complained to Stern about those big bad Lakers and Stern capitulated.
> 
> The whole thing is crap. And the league looks like a total joke tonight...trying to explain the veto as "basketball reasons." The NBA must think we all have two-digit IQs. Moronic.


You do realize that moves like these kill basketball between the coasts right? That trade is mediocre for the hornets. They don't even get the best player in that trade!


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

As for Dan Gilbert email obtained by Y! Sports, timestamp shows he didn't send to Stern until after 10 PM ET. Trade already had been killed. - Woj


----------



## thaKEAF

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*


----------



## OneBadLT123

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Guys guys guys...

This deal had train wreck written all over the place. You know damn well the majority of owner in the NBA (who are all part owners of the Hornets) will NOT want anything to do with helping the Lakers get a top 5 player while saving the Lakers millions and adding a lot more committed salary to their own pockets.

Lamar Odom wanted nothing to do with new Orleans
Pau Gasol wanted nothing to do with Houston
You know damn well both of their agents probably had their paws on it too since both have invested millions into their current locations. 

This is what you get when the majority interest of the group of owners is to save their additional costs, and help the intrests of their primary team. It was NEVER going to work.

The Hornets are probably better off letting Paul walk. It gives the team a clean slate, an easy sell without a large financial obligation. That, or deep down in the dark meetings of the NBA and its owners, they plan on contracting the team. Shed all salary, keep costs down then close the doors. No reason to commit salaries long term if in the end, the team won’t exist long term.

No matter how much we piss and moan, the Hornets are the leagues team. They write the checks, they pay the bills, they have (and should have) the final say in their teams decisions. There are way too many self interests, and millions involved for the league and owners to do nothing. The league should have never purchased the team. That is the main issue here. Not this Paul trade. Too many self interestes involved for a fair field of play trade and free agent wise. 

I honestly expected this. It’s just sad what the league has become.


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HB said:


> The trade wasn't good for the hornets from a basketball stand point either. Only folks who like this trade are Lakers fans, let's be realistic.


You be realistic. I didn't like the trade because we are giving up two bigs for one small, and I love Odom. I just don't think the NBA should be stepping in to alter trades like this. It sets a bad precedent.


----------



## Ron

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Hyperion said:


> You do realize that moves like these kill basketball between the coasts right? That trade is mediocre for the hornets. They don't even get the best player in that trade!


You do realize that its better than letting Paul walk away for nothing, right? Where do the Hornets win in that?

Because now he cannot be traded to anyone. The league has already made an awful PR move, it cannot afford any more moves like that. They are ****ed.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....e-veto-about-owners-wanting-their-power-back/

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....id-stern-to-block-chris-paul-trade-to-lakers/

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....make-bad-pr-situation-worse-by-killing-trade/

Read the second link above...I sincerely doubt where Dan Gilbert has the Hornets' as his main concern in that e-mail. All I see is Laker-hate and anger in that e-mail.


----------



## Diable

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

The new CBA commits the teams to either 85% or 90% of the salary cap. The Hornets have like five players under contract and Paul makes 15 million$. So the owners are contractually obligated to pay for the Hornets players whether this trade happens or not. Now they have to take on ten or fifteen million dollars in salary to random free agents I guess. Arguing that this trade died because the Hornets took on salary ignores the fact that the Hornets have to take on salary. They have to somehow form a roster because right now they can not even run a scrimmage. 

Of course the Hornets have been making money the entire time that all of this was going on, although without Paul it is hard to see that continuing. They have apparently been quite successful at selling season tickets in spite of the lockout as well, so the owners are not losing any significant money by owning the Hornets. At least they have not to this point, but it sure looks like they will.


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HB said:


> As for Dan Gilbert email obtained by Y! Sports, timestamp shows he didn't send to Stern until after 10 PM ET. Trade already had been killed. - Woj


Oh really?

How come the tense its written in still has the deal on the table?

Here's another fact for you...servers delay e-mails all the time. Got it, Woj?

It is clear from the tense of the e-mail that Gilbert sent it while the deal was on the table. And that he was in some sort of e-mail conversation with Stern when it happened.

Here is another question for you HB, since you seem to be so defensive of the attorneys. This deal was in the works for *four hours*, why didn't Stern kill it earlier in the day? Why did he wait until it was rumored that several owners were upset and wanted the deal killed?

Did it really take him over four hours to decide to kill the deal for "basketball reasons?" :| Don't make your arguments in a vacuum, HB. Think them over before posting them.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Ron said:


> You be realistic. I didn't like the trade because we are giving up two bigs for one small, and I love Odom. I just don't think the NBA should be stepping in to alter trades like this. It sets a bad precedent.


It's their team though. No matter how much we hate it, they have the final say. (Especially if millions of dollars are involved). Letting their GM just run a muck with 70+ million is not something any owner will take kindly. No matter how many times they stated "they wont be involved"

Too much money with too many self intrests involved.


----------



## Goulet

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

How is Odom, Kmart, and Scola and a pick a bad haul for a team that woulda been left with squat when he leaves next year.


----------



## Goulet

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

And if they're gonna put the kabosh in a CP3 deal maybe they should consider stamping it before having to veto it.

Stern is a pretty ridiculous dictator IMO and is simply doing this to keep his owners happy because they don't want the Lakers getting too good.

Silly.


----------



## Babe Ruth

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



OneBadLT123 said:


> Guys guys guys...
> 
> This deal had train wreck written all over the place. You know damn well the majority of owner in the NBA (who are all part owners of the Hornets) will NOT want anything to do with helping the Lakers get a top 5 player while saving the Lakers millions and adding a lot more committed salary to their own pockets.
> 
> Lamar Odom wanted nothing to do with new Orleans
> Pau Gasol wanted nothing to do with Houston
> You know damn well both of their agents probably had their paws on it too since both have invested millions into their current locations.
> 
> This is what you get when the majority interest of the group of owners is to save their additional costs, and help the intrests of their primary team. It was NEVER going to work.
> 
> The Hornets are probably better off letting Paul walk. It gives the team a clean slate, an easy sell without a large financial obligation. That, or deep down in the dark meetings of the NBA and its owners, they plan on contracting the team. Shed all salary, keep costs down then close the doors. No reason to commit salaries long term if in the end, the team won’t exist long term.
> 
> No matter how much we piss and moan, the Hornets are the leagues team. They write the checks, they pay the bills, they have (and should have) the final say in their teams decisions. There are way too many self interests, and millions involved for the league and owners to do nothing. The league should have never purchased the team. That is the main issue here. Not this Paul trade. Too many self interestes involved for a fair field of play trade and free agent wise.
> 
> I honestly expected this. It’s just sad what the league has become.



Should anti-trust laws really not apply to this type of collusion within the context of a CBA? The league granted decision-making powers to a GM and then allows for the other owners to prevent one team (the Lakers, their competitor) from competing in the market. This is absolutely absurd.


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Anyone who believes they killed this deal for basketball reasons is full of shit, this deal was killed because of money.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

If anything, this is probably a GOOD public relations move for the NBA to the casual fan. Nobody, I mean nobody outside the top 5 NBA markets wants to see Paul on the Lakers. This might be the NBA's way of dealing with all these years of rumors, allegations of the NBA fixing games for the Lakers in the early 00's, the Pau Gasol trade, the referee scandal, setting up a Boston vs LA NBA Finals, the lock out, and superstar players leaving for bigger markets. 

All I ever heard from casual fans from Minneapolis to Houston to Florida to Seattle is that the NBA always wanted the popular teams to succeed and the star players in big markets.

To the league and team purists like us, this is a blow to the face.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Babe Ruth said:


> Should anti-trust laws really not apply to this type of collusion within the context of a CBA? The league granted decision-making powers to a GM and then allows for the other owners to prevent one team (the Lakers, their competitor) from competing in the market. This is absolutely absurd.


You know, you have a legitimate point here. I never even thought about anti-trust laws. I wonder if those laws even apply to this situation?


----------



## Marcus13

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

First snowfall of the year and I wake up to this great news?

What a beautiful Friday. Im proud of David Stern for finally standing up to these diva players


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

BS, Stern looks like a complete fool.

After all this nonsense, Dwight Howard is about to dictate where he goes and there is nothing Stern or the rest of these butt hurt owners can do about it.


----------



## Marcus13

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Game3525 said:


> BS, Stern looks like a complete fool.
> 
> After all this nonsense, Dwight Howard is about to dictate where he goes and there is nothing Stern or the rest of these butt hurt owners can do about it.


Yeah, if Dwight is able to dictate his move to New Jersey - then this move doesn't make any sense. But as long as he's going to stand up to all these superstars, then it's a great day for the NBA


----------



## Jamel Irief

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Goulet said:


> How is Odom, Kmart, and Scola and a pick a bad haul for a team that woulda been left with squat when he leaves next year.


Agreed. They compete for the playoffs this year and some contender will easily take on Scola or Kmart for something.


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Compete where?


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Ron said:


> Oh really?
> 
> How come the tense its written in still has the deal on the table?
> 
> Here's another fact for you...servers delay e-mails all the time. Got it, Woj?
> 
> It is clear from the tense of the e-mail that Gilbert sent it while the deal was on the table. And that he was in some sort of e-mail conversation with Stern when it happened.
> 
> Here is another question for you HB, since you seem to be so defensive of the attorneys. This deal was in the works for *four hours*, why didn't Stern kill it earlier in the day? Why did he wait until it was rumored that several owners were upset and wanted the deal killed?
> 
> Did it really take him over four hours to decide to kill the deal for "basketball reasons?" :| Don't make your arguments in a vacuum, HB. Think them over before posting them.


Woj also mentions that other owners both in verbal form and written talked to Stern on hearing about the deal going down. Gilbert isn't the only one involved.


----------



## Dre

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

People still trying to defend this horseshit?

So you are the same people who need to sit back and take it when Stern abuses his authority in the future. I mean you were OK with this instance.

And people are still trying to talk about the salary aspect. I'll give y'all an extension today. 

Can somebody find me an article where the Owners are mad about the salary the Hornets took on? Please?

No? OK, well that's because it's *your opinion*. It's not. About. The. Money. Shutup about it already. 

Stern is trying to act like a sim league owner keeping all the other owners happy and now he's getting the backlash. Deal with it.


----------



## Marcus13

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Dre said:


> People still trying to defend this horseshit?


It's called nipping a problem in the bud.

The NBA was heading down a terrible path and as long as this was just setting precedent and not an isolated incident, it's a very positive thing


----------



## Dre

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

***** please if it was the Celtics you'd be 180ed. Don't even lie.

These guys are just following the blueprint Ray and them set anyway...you glass house quarterback...cmon son...


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

How is this a positive?

The league looks like a complete joke right now. And like I said before they aren't stopping anything, Dwight is about to dictate where he wants to go.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners?*



Hyperion said:


> You do realize that moves like these kill basketball between the coasts right? That trade is mediocre for the hornets. They don't even get the best player in that trade!


is that why the NBA set revenue records last season with the Miami Heat story arc?


----------



## Basel

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

How damaged is Stern's legacy right now? Two lockouts and then this? I hope the bitch retires already. 

Also, funny how the owners thought the agents had too much power seemingly during the lockout, and now rumors are that it was Gasol's agent who gathered the troops, if you will, to complain to Stern about this trade.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Other owners hating on the Lakers saving money but I'm sure they don't get up in arms when they're getting our slice of the revenue sharing pie....


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Can someone please explain how that deal was good for New Orleans? That roster is no better than the Suns


----------



## Marcus13

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Ok, Im saying though....IF (maybe a big if) but IF Stern doesn't allow for Dwight to be dealt to the Nets at his request...then are you guys still as angry?


----------



## Marcus13

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Dre said:


> ***** please if it was the Celtics you'd be 180ed. Don't even lie.
> 
> These guys are just following the blueprint Ray and them set anyway...you glass house quarterback...cmon son...


Ray didn't ask for a trade to Boston and that's the entire point here. Players are deciding where they are being traded instead of teams taking the best deal on the table for them


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Chris Paul didn't ask for a trade to the Lakers...


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HB said:


> Can someone please explain how that deal was good for New Orleans? That roster is no better than the Suns


The roster would have been good enough to win 45 games, there were far worse deals being offered for Paul then what LA put out.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

And they could still flip Odom and Scola for other pieces.


----------



## Marcus13

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Chris Paul didn't ask for a trade to the Lakers...


I don't buy that for a second. As soon as he found out NY wasn't a possibility, he wanted to go to LA


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Marcus13 said:


> First snowfall of the year and I wake up to this great news?
> 
> What a beautiful Friday. Im proud of David Stern for finally standing up to these diva players


You have no idea what you are talking about.

Three teams got screwed in this, not just one. Word is out that Stern may reverse his decision today. Personally, I doubt it, but either way, he looks like a total idiot.


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Marcus13 said:


> Ray didn't ask for a trade to Boston and that's the entire point here. Players are deciding where they are being traded instead of teams taking the best deal on the table for them


Really?

Give me a link where Paul asked to be traded to the Lakers.


----------



## Marcus13

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Ron said:


> You have no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> Three teams got screwed in this, not just one. Word is out that Stern may reverse his decision today. Personally, I doubt it, but either way, he looks like a total idiot.


The Lakers are the only team that got "screwed" here. 

I don't see anybody from Houston's fan base complaining


----------



## Marcus13

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Ron said:


> Really?
> 
> Give me a link where Paul asked to be traded to the Lakers.


http://www.celticslife.com/2011/12/sensing-he-cant-be-knick-cp3-now-wants.html


----------



## Tooeasy

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

The only shining light is the possible restructuring of the players involved and sweetening the players/picks in the pot that head to the hornets, in which case I won't mind this drama one bit. Maybe get another team to take on okafor which would reduce the hornets salary cap figures or somethin.


----------



## Diable

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

I would be pretty surprised if Houston did not back out. Morey must have run out of crack by now.


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Marcus13 said:


> The Lakers are the only team that got "screwed" here.
> 
> I don't see anybody from Houston's fan base complaining


Houston is one of the three teams that is appealing the decision.


----------



## Tooeasy

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Also a major issue with this entire scenario is the fact that in an already shortened free agency and training camp, teams have got to make moves to round out the roster. After this debacle, has there really been any new talk of player movement by any of the teams? This is a major hindrance in teams free agency plans and is going to freeze alot of potential moves in the short term.


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Marcus13 said:


> http://www.celticslife.com/2011/12/sensing-he-cant-be-knick-cp3-now-wants.html





> As a result, his new favorite destination, I'm told, is the Lakers.


Perhaps you didn't understand me. I asked for a link where *Paul is saying he wants to be a Laker*. Not someone who says his cousin's older sister's boyfriend thinks its going to happen.

Not hearsay, Marcus. A real quote. Jesus H. Christ.


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Game3525 said:


> The roster would have been good enough to win 45 games, there were far worse deals being offered for Paul then what LA put out.


45 games with Jack as starting point? How many games did the Rockets win last year? How about the Suns who have a much better point guard?


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Tooeasy said:


> Also a major issue with this entire scenario is the fact that in an already shortened free agency and training camp, teams have got to make moves to round out the roster. After this debacle, has there really been any new talk of player movement by any of the teams? This is a major hindrance in teams free agency plans and is going to freeze alot of potential moves in the short term.


There are heavy rumors that the Howard deal to the Nets is going to go down later today; other than that, I agree with you...it freezes the rest of the teams for now.


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Pietrus just got traded


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HB said:


> 45 games with Jack as starting point? How many games did the Rockets win last year? How about the Suns who have a much better point guard?


The Rockets won 43 games last year, it is not like they went the Cavalier route. And the Suns won 40 games, and that was because they never adequately replaced Amare, if they had they would have been in the playoffs.

The trade wasn't bad for the Hornets, there was a enough talent going back for NO to stay competitive and perhaps be a playoff team.


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Not in the west....you are either a 50 win team or you are out of the playoffs. Before you mention the Grizz, they played like a 50 win time after the AS break.


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HB said:


> Not in the west....you are either a 50 win team or you are out of the playoffs. Before you mention the Grizz, they played like a 50 win time after the AS break.


That is nonsense.

Portland and NO weren't fifty win teams last year.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Hornets will try to see if sweetening current deal in some way would make it more acceptable to NBA. (via @daldridgetnt)


----------



## Bogg

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Honestly, so long as Otis Smith can't trade Dwight Howard for Andrew Bynum, I don't much care what happens. The league needs to get something for Paul or the Hornets are going to go the Cadavaliers route.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Dre said:


> People still trying to defend this horseshit?
> 
> So you are the same people who need to sit back and take it when Stern abuses his authority in the future. I mean you were OK with this instance.
> 
> And people are still trying to talk about the salary aspect. I'll give y'all an extension today.
> 
> Can somebody find me an article where the Owners are mad about the salary the Hornets took on? Please?
> 
> No? OK, well that's because it's *your opinion*. It's not. About. The. Money. Shutup about it already.
> 
> Stern is trying to act like a sim league owner keeping all the other owners happy and now he's getting the backlash. Deal with it.


I have yet to see undeniable proof stating the owners didnt want the Lakers to get Paul because they hate the Lakers, or they didnt want the Lakers getting Paul for whatever reason besides financial.

We have seen the financial side of it (Gilberts letter).

Calm down, you said earlier people need to stop stating their opinions as fact, but yet you turn around and state your reason why, as fact. You cant have your cake and eat it too buddy.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Ron said:


> Houston is one of the three teams that is appealing the decision.


Says who? Chris Bussard? lol. I Have not seen anything anywhere regarding an appeal. If there was, it would have been on clutchfans in an instant.


----------



## Bogg

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



OneBadLT123 said:


> Says who? Chris Bussard? lol. I Have not seen anything anywhere regarding an appeal. If there was, it would have been on clutchfans in an instant.


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7335040/teams-blocked-chris-paul-trade-appealing-nba-sources-say



Marc Stein said:


> The three teams involved in the Chris Paul trade blocked Thursday by NBA commissioner David Stern are appealing to the league for Stern to reverse the decision, according to sources close to the process.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



OneBadLT123 said:


> I have yet to see undeniable proof stating the owners didnt want the Lakers to get Paul because they hate the Lakers, or they didnt want the Lakers getting Paul for whatever reason besides financial.
> 
> We have seen the financial side of it (Gilberts letter).
> 
> Calm down, you said earlier people need to stop stating their opinions as fact, but yet you turn around and state your reason why, as fact. You cant have your cake and eat it too buddy.


The financial side of it? You mean when Gilbert complained the Lakers were saving money, and then turned around and said they were going to spend more to get Howard? How does that make sense?

Not once did he talk about paying the Hornets bill. But he did mention the rest of the league wouldn't be able to compete with the Lakers.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> The financial side of it? You mean when Gilbert complained the Lakers were saving money, and then turned around and said they were going to spend more to get Howard? How does that make sense?
> 
> Not once did he talk about paying the Hornets bill. But he did mention the rest of the league wouldn't be able to compete with the Lakers.


He said the Lakers were getting the best player, and shedding 40 million dollars in salary, which would have gone to the rest of the league. Thats a pretty big financial intrest ALL OWNERS have in the Lakers/Hornets deal. 

On top of still being able to manipulte a deal for Howard - because of financial reasons. While the owners (the NBA owners that is) of the Hornets have to foot the bill for it. 

It all boils down to $$$$$$$$

Teams want to be competitive because of the financial bonuses that come with it, not to make me and you happy. Unless youre the Clippers, until recently Sterling liked collecting revenue checks.

This has nothing to do with "basketball reasons". The NBA of today isnt about the sport, isnt about the fans. It's a multibillion dollar business protecting the interests of thier team owners. Thats it. Players are nothing more than labor assets feeding the NBA money machine.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



OneBadLT123 said:


> He said the Lakers were getting the best player, and shedding 40 million dollars in salary, which would have gone to the rest of the league. Thats a pretty big financial intrest ALL OWNERS have in the Lakers/Hornets deal.
> 
> On top of still being able to manipulte a deal for Howard - because of financial reasons. While the owners (the NBA owners that it) of the Hornets have to foot the bill for it.
> 
> It all boils down to $$$$$$$$
> 
> Teams want to be competitive because of the financial bonuses that come with it, not to make me and you happy. Unless youre the Clippers, until recently Sterling liked collecting revenue checks.
> 
> This has nothing to do with "basketball reasons". The NBA of today isnt about the sport, isnt about the fans. It's a multibillion dollar business protecting the interests of thier team owners. Thats it. Players are nothing more than assets feeding the NBA money machine.


The Lakers taking on Howard and Turkoglu was going to make up for what they "saved" in the Hornet deal. 

The Hornets would never be able to improve without spending money anyways. But that's where the obvious conflict of interest comes into play that makes this deal so shady. The NBA won't allow them to improve.

I hope the Lakers make the deal with Houston independent from the Hornets.


----------



## Diable

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Really if Houston is willing to give up this much for Gasol the Lakers should jump on it, but they almost certainly can not because the Hornets were the ones who could absorb 30 million in salary. I have no damned clue how Gasol became that valuable, although I think that the Rockets must be looking at this as a way to shed all of that salary. Again the CBA obligates the Hornets to pay 85% of the salary cap in player salaries, which they need to add a great deal of money to their current salaries to meet. The owners will have to pay for the Hornets to field a team no matter what, although they are not going to lose a penny doing it unless they refuse to let the Hornets field a real team.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> The Lakers taking on Howard and Turkoglu was going to make up for what they "saved" in the Hornet deal.


Except that the purpose of the deal was to force the other 28 owners to foot the bill for the Lakers acquisition of Howard. If Jerry Buss were opening his wallet and committing to paying 100% of the salaries being unloaded on the Hornets most of the objections would vanish. What's pissing the other 28 guys off is that Buss demanded they pick up the tab for him.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HB said:


> 45 games with Jack as starting point? How many games did the Rockets win last year? How about the Suns who have a much better point guard?


Both almost won 45 games. I don't think the poster you were responding to accounted for the shortened season.


----------



## thaKEAF

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



> If you’re Amar’e Stoudemire, it’s great to hear Tyson Chandler is coming to the Knicks to relieve him of the responsibility of guarding centers for much of the time.
> 
> The disturbing news is that the team’s once treasured asset was nearly relieved of the New York City limelight he loves basking in. A Hornets’ source disclosed they swiftly rejected a Stoudemire-for-Chris Paul offer.
> 
> There was no interest whatsoever, maybe because Stoudemire’s remaining 4-year, $84 million contract is uninsurable.
> 
> Or maybe it’s because New Orleans had better offers, the looming three-way deal with the Lakers and Rockets that commissioner David Stern pre-empted.
> 
> The Warriors also were involved in serious negotiations, but were unwilling to give up Stephen Curry without Paul promising to re-sign long term.
> 
> Sources say a pledge wouldn’t have been necessary had New Orleans taken Monta Ellis and other goodies.
> 
> Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knic..._hornets_yssonHk1y72BN7jKN9tNTO#ixzz1g44OpRBt


http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knic..._yssonHk1y72BN7jKN9tNTO?CMP=OTC-rss&FEEDNAME=


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



E.H. Munro said:


> Except that the purpose of the deal was to force the other 28 owners to foot the bill for the Lakers acquisition of Howard. If Jerry Buss were opening his wallet and committing to paying 100% of the salaries being unloaded on the Hornets most of the objections would vanish. What's pissing the other 28 guys off is that Buss demanded they pick up the tab for him.


What made them mad is that it's the Lakers who got Paul.


----------



## e-monk

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

even Bill Simmons knows this is BS

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7334835/the-sixth-day-nba-christmas

The Sports Guy
The Sixth Day of NBA Christmas
Day 6: When Chris Paul let us know David Stern had stayed too longBy Bill SimmonsPOSTED DECEMBER 9, 2011 

Nathaniel S. Butler/Getty ImagesFACEBOOK
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Note: This could end up being one of the craziest months in NBA history. To celebrate the signings, trades, rumors, roster shuffling, insanity and (almost definitely) ensuing hilarity/incompetence, I have unleashed a special series called "The 12 Days of NBA Christmas." Every weekday through December 19 (give or take a day), I will be writing about this unexpected NBA Christmas.

Day 1: The Road to Groundhog Day (and more dumb contracts than ever)
Day 2: The Donut Dilemma (the bubble in the center market)
Day 3: Is Arron Afflalo really worth $50 million?
Day 4: Where the hell is Chris Paul going?
Day 5: Inside Grantland Featuring Blake Griffin, Part II
Day 6: (12/9) The Day the NBA Lost Its Way

Norm MacDonald's Comedy Central show may not have lasted long, but it left behind my favorite two-word phrase of 2011: "Wait, what?" The bit went like this: Norm would read a completely insane story with a totally straight face, milk it for a beat, then do a double-take and scream, "Wait, what???" It always slayed me.

See, life is full of those "Wait, what???" moments … you know, like yesterday, right after the Lakers pulled off a three-team trade for Chris Paul, when everyone was still digesting that stunning news through phone calls, e-mails and tweets. I had just tweeted a joke about coming to grips with my favorite point guard — Paul, a true artist, maybe the best pure point guard who ever lived — playing across the street from my office, for the team I hate the most, ultimately deciding that I just needed to get drunk. Not even a minute later, my cell phone rang. A friend of mine was on the line. He's never steered me wrong. And now, he was about to put me into a freaking stupor.

"The trade's off! The NBA vetoed the trade!!!"

Wait, what?

"The NBA vetoed the trade! They said it wasn't in the best interests of the league."

WAIT, WHAT?

"You heard me. They said it wasn't in the best interests in the league. Chris has to play out the year in New Orleans."

You know the rest. One of the strangest things about loving sports: Those random moments when you're sitting in your house, your office, your classroom, wherever … and suddenly you get blown away by a legitimate bombshell. This was crazy. This was insane. This made no sense. By blocking the trade, David Stern was willingly creating his own Watergate and validating every critic who ever claimed, "That guy stayed too long." Tim Donaghy was just one guy acting alone — we think — and tampering with dozens of games before they caught him. Blocking the Paul trade? This was different. This was Big Brother stuff. This was one of the biggest conflicts of interest in sports history. This was a league intentionally jeopardizing its own credibility. This was a scandal popping out of thin air, self-created, almost like a man-made lake or something.

These are the facts: Twelve months ago, the NBA bought the New Orleans Hornets for a little more than $300 million. Every other owner (29 in all) split the price for the franchise, the same way you'd split a meal 12 ways for your buddy's birthday or something. Stern and his cronies claimed this wouldn't be a problem, that Hornets GM Dell Demps would be able to swing moves just like any other general manager. When Mark Cuban flipped out in February after a Carl Landry/Marcus Thornton swap caused New Orleans' payroll to rise, nobody really cared. When the lockout dragged on for five months and nobody ever seriously considered contracting the Hornets — a franchise that lost money AND couldn't find an owner — nobody really cared. When the Hornets stole the spotlight after the labor agreement by immediately being involved in 50,000 different trade rumors, nobody really cared. We all assumed things were "on the level."

And why not? We had no reason to think differently … right? The league made a point of saying that Demps had been empowered to make any trade (without interference). Every team dealing with New Orleans believed that Demps was in charge — without any question — and that they weren't wasting their time spending their days batting around ideas with him. On Wednesday morning, when I was working on my column about Paul trades, I sniffed around on Stern's role in the trade talks and got the same answer from different people: It's Dell Demps' call. I ended up joking in that column that Stern might block a Clippers/Paul trade to avoid having Donald Sterling own one of the league's signature franchises. Everyone read that and got the joke.

I mean, Stern wouldn't actually BLOCK a trade. That's preposterous. Right?

Fast-forward to Thursday night: Those first few minutes after word spread (not only that the trade was canceled, but that Paul would probably remain in New Orleans for the entire season), as everyone came to the same sobering conclusion. The old man finally lost his mind. Sure, he was pushed there by a cluster of bitter owners, but the old Stern never would have rolled over like that. Twenty years ago, 10 years ago, maybe even five years ago, Stern would have brushed them off in his endearingly condescending way, quelled the fire, called in a favor or two, acted like the politician he always secretly was. Not this time. The old man doesn't have the same sway. We just witnessed it during that lockout. Few people understood how much time and effort he spent pushing his holdout owners toward that final compromise. He barely got there.

If you want to know the truth, Stern started losing control of the league during the middle of last decade, when a new generation of wealthy billionaires started paying full boat for franchises. The days of Abe Pollin and Bill Davidson were long gone — family guys who bought in early, stuck with their investments and watched their league flourish into something much bigger than they ever expected. Stern's favorite owner was Larry Miller, a dynamic Salt Lake City businessman and philanthropist who bought the Jazz in 1985, then ran the franchise with his family for the next 24 years. A year after diabetes claimed Miller in May of 2009, Stern met the press before a playoff game and spoke earnestly about his affection for Miller. Someone asked the commissioner about Jerry Sloan's longevity. At the time, Sloan was still coaching the Jazz at 67 years old, six months older than Stern.

"We're a dying breed," Stern admitted. "It's not happening anymore. But it sure is reassuring to look there and expect to see him, and darn, he's there. It's kind of neat."

That's probably how Stern thought people saw him. Or, how he hoped people saw him. And in some cases (like with me), it was true. Little did he know that Sloan was losing control of his players — in 2011, an ongoing clash with star Deron Williams caused Sloan to resign — just like Stern was slowly losing control of his owners. The newer generation of guys wasn't indebted to him. They found him to be increasingly obstinate, stuck in his ways, more of a condescending bully than anything. After paying full sticker price for their teams, they weren't interested in answering to some aging know-it-all. Stern's control slowly started to erode, whether he realized it or not.

Leaders thrive when they feel creatively empowered, when they trust the people around them, when their confidence is swelling. Leaders make mistakes when they lose that same confidence, when they're fretting about their power base, when they're reacting instead of acting. The worst kind of leaders hang on too long, get seduced by their own voice, start doing things from memory — because that's the way we've always done it! — stop thinking outside the box, start playing checkers instead of chess. Stern reached that point last night. I think he caved because of the whining owners, but also out of exasperation: because yet another superstar was trying to push his way to another big city, because he's in charge, because THIS IS DAVID STERN'S LEAGUE. It's like the old Will Ferrell/Dodge Stratus SNL sketch:

You don't talk to me like that! I'm David Stern! I make the rules here! You don't get to pick your team, I do! I'm the commissioner of the NBA! I DRIVE A DODGE STRATUS!!!!!

Fact: That trade was totally, undeniably, 100 percent defensible.

Fact: Of the three teams involved, New Orleans made out the best. Repeat: the best. By my calculations, it landed one of the better offensive big men in basketball (Luis Scola), one of the better scoring 2-guards in basketball (Kevin Martin), a playoff-proven forward who can play either spot (Lamar Odom), a scoring point guard with upside (Goran Dragic), and a 2012 no. 1 pick (via the New York Knicks). Can you do better for someone who was leaving in seven months anyway? I hate trading superstars, but if you HAVE to trade a superstar? That's pretty good.

Meanwhile, the Rockets spent the past three years stashing enough pieces to make that trade: Acquiring the second-best center in basketball (Gasol) while leaving enough cap room to sign a marquee free agent (and yes, they were closing in on Nene). And the Lakers paid the steepest price: giving up their best low-post guy and all of their frontcourt depth, giving Andrew Bynum an immense amount of responsibility (you know, the same guy who stormed off the court half-naked during the playoff sweep last spring) and reinventing their team around Paul's aching knee and Kobe's aching knees. It would have been a brilliant move had it worked and a legendary disaster had it failed — especially if Kobe rebelled against sharing the ball with Paul — only now we'll never know.

Once word leaked of the deal, rival owners started rebelling almost immediately. What was the point of that lockout, and all the talk of competitive balance, if the Lakers were allowed to immediately acquire Chris Paul? Dan Gilbert sent a scathing e-mail to a few of the other owners that, of course, was leaked on the Internet last night.

The best part of the letter: "This trade should go to a vote of the 29 owners of the Hornets."

(Translation: "Let's cut Demps' balls off, throw the last few weeks of negotiating out the window and go back on our word. Also, I'm thinking of starting a support group for small-market owners who overpaid for their teams, don't have the balls to sell and would rather whine, bitch and bully about their lot in NBA life. I'm going to call it O.A.: Overpayers Anonymous.")

The second-best part of the letter: "I just don't see how we can allow this trade to happen. I know the vast majority of owners feel the same way that I do. When will we just change the name of 25 of the 30 teams to the Washington Generals?"

(Translation: Boooooooo hooooooo.)

There it was, in all its Comic Sans MS glory, that whopping conflict of interest that had been staring at everyone for 12 solid months. How can a league own one of its own franchises? What happens if it has to, you know, make important trades and stuff? The league always knew that, at some point, the Hornets might have to trade Chris Paul. They claimed they had a plan in place. And they did. Until O.A. started bitching with even more fervor than usual. That's when Stern's eroding power finally sank him. Instead of backing a decision he had already made, Stern choked like Nick Anderson. The unthinkable happened.

He blocked the trade.

Wait, what?

Was it the worst moment of David Stern's entire tenure? I never thought anything would top an official fixing games, but man … how can anything be worse than this? Imagine this happened in your fantasy league. Imagine spending weeks shaping a deal, executing it, then having your commissioner waltz in and say, "Nah, I'm vetoing that one." Would that ever happen? And now this is happening in a PROFESSIONAL SPORTS LEAGUE?

Just know that I'm a die-hard Celtics fan and die-hard Lakers hater … and even I am appalled. I hope Chris Paul sues. I hope the Rockets sue. I hope the Lakers sue. I hope Dell Demps resigns and makes a sex tape with a stripper wearing a David Stern Halloween mask. Whatever happens, the season has been irrevocably tainted — we just watched FIVE teams have their seasons screwed up by this debacle. Houston's three-year plan just went up in smoke; now the Rockets have to make up with their two best players. (Good luck with that.) The Lakers need to determine if their relationship with the notoriously sensitive Gasol and the even more notoriously sensitive Odom is salvageable; and if it's not, what then? The Hornets are just plain screwed. It's a basketball catastrophe for them. As for the Celtics, Pinocchio Ainge's ill-fated pursuit of Paul ruined the team's relationship with Rajon Rondo, only its best young player. Even the Knicks got screwed — supposedly they closed the deal with Tyson Chandler yesterday, never expecting Paul to become available this summer (and now they can't chase him).

The total tally: Five teams were screwed by one cowardly decision.

Here's what saddens me: We should have remembered December 8, 2011, as one of the best random basketball days in years. It was like climbing on a Twitter/e-mail/phone call/texting roller coaster from the moment I woke up. First, Boston was in the lead for Paul as Golden State and the Clippers were falling out. Then, Boston fading as the Knicks were gaining steam. Around lunchtime, I called a Knicks buddy who was gleefully planning a future with Chandler, Carmelo and Paul, with poor Amar'e headed to New Orleans, Orlando, Houston … who the hell knew? And then, boom! That went up in smoke. The Lakers came roaring back, word of a three-teamer spread … and my Knicks buddy went from euphoric to despondent in less than three hours. My Laker fan buddies were crowing, my Boston peeps were freaking out, my dad was practically having a heart attack about the Kobe/Howard/Paul possibilities, Twitter was blowing up … I mean, could that have been a more fun day to be a basketball fan?

The best point guard of his generation was switching teams, in his prime, to the Los Angeles Lakers … and only after the Celtics and Knicks failed to get him. Read that sentence again. It's what Dan Gilbert and the other Overpayers Anonymous owners will never understand. In professional basketball, history trumps everything else. It's not just about playing in Los Angeles. It's about playing for the ****ing Lakers. It's about following the footsteps of Magic, Kareem, Wilt, West, Baylor and Shaq. It's about Showtime, Nicholson, the yellow jerseys, the Laker Girls, even that awful Randy Newman song. It's about that buzz before a big Laker home game, when the place is packed with celebs and eye candy, when you're the best guy on the team, when you might as well be the king of the world. When these idiots complain about a "big market/small market" disparity, it's almost like they never followed the league before they bought their teams. Of course there's a disparity! What kid doesn't grow up wanting to play for the Celtics, Lakers or Knicks?

Remember what pissed us off most about LeBron picking Miami over New York? It wasn't just that he tried to stack the decks with a superteam; it's that he walked away from New York, the city with the most basketball fans, the city with the biggest spotlight, the city that would have either made him immortal or broken him in two. He didn't want it. He copped out. He could have picked loyalty (Cleveland) or immortality (New York); instead, he chose help (Miami). That killed us. We hated him for it. What was telling about Chris Paul's choice was that he eschewed the Clippers (a safer basketball situation for him; he would have been able to grow with Eric Gordon, DeAndre Jordan and Blake Griffin) for the Lakers (a much more volatile basketball situation with Kobe's miles and Bynum's knees) for the simple reason that he wanted to be a Laker.

For the right players, it's not about cities as much as teams, uniforms, histories, owners, fans, titles … and Chris Paul cares about the right things. He's the best teammate in the league. As much as it killed me that my least favorite team landed him, the "basketball fan" side of me loved it. Chris Paul and Kobe Bryant … together? Playing across the street from my office? How cool was that? I remember when KG landed on the Celtics, one of my Lakers-fan buddies told me, "I hate KG and I hate the Celtics, but this is going to be cool."

That's how I felt about Chris Paul and the Lakers. If you love basketball — if you truly love it — you appreciated what was happening. And it had nothing to do with the Washington Generals. Believe me.

Of course, that's not how December 8, 2011 will be remembered. Years from now, I won't remember anything about that day except for David Stern losing control of his own league. Once upon a time, it was reassuring to look there and expect to see him, and darn, he was there. It was kind of neat. Those days are long gone. The National Basketball Association has lost its way. I feel like crying.

Bill Simmons is the Editor in Chief of Grantland and the author of the recent New York Times no. 1 best-seller The Book of Basketball, now out in paperback with new material and a revised Hall of Fame Pyramid. For every Simmons column and podcast, log on to Grantland. Follow him on Twitter and check out his new home on Facebook.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## LA68

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Between the lock out and this catastrophe, what FA will ever want to play for Gilbert or Jordan ?? Jealous and stupid are just two traits that should never ever go together.

When did Gilbert become the new commissioner ?? Oh, and get ready for the Nets tampering with Howard. Maybe they'll stop that one also ?


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



E.H. Munro said:


> Except that the purpose of the deal was to force the other 28 owners to foot the bill for the Lakers acquisition of Howard. If Jerry Buss were opening his wallet and committing to paying 100% of the salaries being unloaded on the Hornets most of the objections would vanish. What's pissing the other 28 guys off is that Buss demanded they pick up the tab for him.


The problem is that that's the wrong way to look at it - the Hornets have the meet a minimum salary number for their team, and they were going to have an extremely difficult time doing that by keeping Paul and trying to sign FAs. This deal locked up four very good players to keep their team competitive, meet the minimum requirement and fill out their roster. What worth-the-money solid FA would want to sign with this Hornets team right now? There isn't one other than minimum-level players. Is the NBA essentially asking New Orleans to keep Paul and just sign 7 guys to the minimum to fill out the roster?

You can't use the money excuse - that essentially means that the Hornets are not allowed to go out there and sign a player to a $6+m salary because the "rest of the teams are footing the bill".

The Hornets would still only have like a $50m team salary if this deal went through - hardly preposterous. This thing still stinks to high heaven.


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



LA68 said:


> When did Gilbert become the new commissioner ?? Oh, and get ready for the Nets tampering with Howard. Maybe they'll stop that one also ?


The difference is that the Magic have accused the Nets of tampering. It is now unlikely that the Magic would then turn around and trade Howard to the team they just accused of tampering with him. :|

There will be no trade for stern to stop.


----------



## thaKEAF

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



> WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
> As teams wait to re-engage Hornets on Chris Paul, here's one executive: "Truly feel for those guys, but we're all gonna lowball them now."


lol


----------



## Diable

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

That's a load of crap. The Hornets have already turned down Amare for Paul, which is nothing like his real value. They have turned down all of the offers half the teams in the league have made. No one is going to lowball them for one second, but they might say stupid shit for the benefit of anyone stupid enough to take heed. 

No one has any clue what Stern will allow though. If he stops this deal is he going to veto any trade? That would likely be illegal in the constitutional sense as you'd be discriminating against Paul because he is a really good basketball player.


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Ok, the Lakers revised offer will be Luke Walton, Ron Artest, and Kobe's sweaty jersey.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

They should throw in Metta World Peace.


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

If you love basketball, you watch the same teams that have dominated the NBA for the past decade or so, continue to dominate the league whilst other teams rot in mediocrity. - BS

**** you Bill Simmons. At least the initials fit.

I mean I have soured on the NBA a bit, but I was truly happy that teams like Memphis, Indiana and OKC are doing well (Am I forgetting any other small market team? Please dont mention the Heat). Anyhoo, arent you guys sick of seeing the Lakers dominate the headlines year in year out?


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

I never thought I'd actually agree with Bill Simmons...

SMH


----------



## Jamel Irief

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HB said:


> If you love basketball, you watch the same teams that have dominated the NBA for the past decade or so, continue to dominate the league whilst other teams rot in mediocrity. - BS
> 
> **** you Bill Simmons. At least the initials fit.
> 
> I mean I have soured on the NBA a bit, but I was truly happy that teams like Memphis, Indiana and OKC are doing well (Am I forgetting any other small market team? Please dont mention the Heat). Anyhoo, arent you guys sick of seeing the Lakers dominate the headlines year in year out?


I thought you said this trade would of made the Lakers worse? Shouldn't you be mad it got vetoed? Or are you admitting you have no objectivity and will say stupid shit like the Lakers can't beat Memphis and Terrence Williams is a good player?


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Jamel Irief said:


> I thought you said this trade would of made the Lakers worse? Shouldn't you be mad it got vetoed? Or are you admitting you have no objectivity and will say stupid shit like the Lakers can't beat Memphis and Terrence Williams is a good player?


Aww archivist are you upset? What does this have to do with Williams and Memphis and yes from a basketball standpoint it wasn't a good deal for the Lakers. But what I was really worried about was them adding Dwight to the mix. That's just unfair.


----------



## 29380

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



thaKEAF said:


> http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knic..._yssonHk1y72BN7jKN9tNTO?CMP=OTC-rss&FEEDNAME=


That is not even close to being true Peter Vecsey has not had legit sources in over a decade, Knicks stop going after Paul after CAA told them he wanted the Lakers.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HB said:


> Aww archivist are you upset? What does this have to do with Williams and Memphis and yes from a basketball standpoint it wasn't a good deal for the Lakers. But what I was really worried about was them adding Dwight to the mix. That's just unfair.


You're a homer for the Nets and a hater for the Lakers. So you say unreasonable things when those two teams are involved.

Lakers make a trade, HB says its a bad trade.

"Bad trade" gets vetoed, HB is happy because he thinks the trade would of helped the Lakers.


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Nevermind:Old tweet.


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Seems that one of us likes competition more than the other, not just a few teams that seem to have things stacked in their favor year in year out. Yes if that makes me a hater, cool bro. Glad Stern did this, now you know how the other side feels.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> What made them mad is that it's the Lakers who got Paul.


The exact same thing would have happened if you replace Odom & Gasol with Stoudemire & Billups. If the rest of the NBA were being asked to pony up $66 million plus tens of million in lost equity to make the Dolans even richer the Sarvers, Gilberts, and investment groups of the NBA would have been every bit as livid. 

I understand that Laker fans have a persecution complex, but really, the deal basically asked the small market/poorer owners to subsidise one of the wealthiest franchises in the game, in order for them to become even more valuable financially. If Demps had shipped him off to Indiana for Collison and a 2012 first the other owners wouldn't have cared because it wouldn't mean money coming out of their pockets to help out one of the richest owners in the NBA.


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

^ I am going to start using your quote to respond to folks about this issue.


----------



## Floods

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HB said:


> But what I was really worried about was them adding Dwight to the mix. That's just unfair.


Imagine that, maneuvering to turn your own assets into 2 young star players. How unfair.


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Floods said:


> Imagine that, maneuvering to turn your own assets into 2 young star players. How unfair.


Didn't you know it is against the "rules" when the Lakers do it.


----------



## HKF

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

I know some like to think the Lakers are only rich because of the TV deal, but between Anschutz and that Asian doctor-inventor, they have two guys in their ownership group worth a combined 10-13 billion with an investment in the team.


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Every body is out to get the lakers...yawn!


----------



## clien

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Great Bill Simmons article.


----------



## Floods

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



E.H. Munro said:


> I understand that Laker fans have a persecution complex, but really, the deal basically asked the small market/poorer owners to subsidise one of the wealthiest franchises in the game, in order for them to become even more valuable financially.


Doesn't change the fact that it was a valid, legal trade by all teams, and it's a conflict of interest for the owners to veto it. The Lakers have every right to save their own money. You can't influence a competitors' roster when you have no involvement in the transaction. That's collusion. Period.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



E.H. Munro said:


> The exact same thing would have happened if you replace Odom & Gasol with Stoudemire & Billups. If the rest of the NBA were being asked to pony up $66 million plus tens of million in lost equity to make the Dolans even richer the Sarvers, Gilberts, and investment groups of the NBA would have been every bit as livid.
> 
> I understand that Laker fans have a persecution complex, but really, the deal basically asked the small market/poorer owners to subsidise one of the wealthiest franchises in the game, in order for them to become even more valuable financially. If Demps had shipped him off to Indiana for Collison and a 2012 first the other owners wouldn't have cared because it wouldn't mean money coming out of their pockets to help out one of the richest owners in the NBA.


The Hornets weren't going to have a big payroll. I don't know why you keep making it sound that way.


----------



## Laker Freak

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Phil Jackson quote from 2010 when he was asked to give his opinion on the NBA buying the Hornets:




> "Who's going to trade who to whom? Who's going to pull the button on trading player or when Chris [Paul] says he has to be traded? How's that going to go? I don't know. Somebody's going to have to make a very nonjudgmental decision on that part that's not going to irritate anybody else in this league ... I don't know how they're going to do that."
> 
> The Hornets basketball decisions and day-to-day operations will continue to be controlled by team president Hugh Weber and general manager Dell Demps, but Jackson was skeptical any move made by New Orleans would be viewed as the league helping out another franchise.
> 
> "That's what everybody is going to be afraid of: Who is going to be helping who out?" Jackson said.


http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/lakers/post/_/id/24186/phil-jackson-predicted-this-hornets-debacle


----------



## Jamel Irief

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



E.H. Munro said:


> The exact same thing would have happened if you replace Odom & Gasol with Stoudemire & Billups. If the rest of the NBA were being asked to pony up $66 million plus tens of million in lost equity to make the Dolans even richer the Sarvers, Gilberts, and investment groups of the NBA would have been every bit as livid.
> 
> I understand that Laker fans have a persecution complex, but really, the deal basically asked the small market/poorer owners to subsidise one of the wealthiest franchises in the game, in order for them to become even more valuable financially. If Demps had shipped him off to Indiana for Collison and a 2012 first the other owners wouldn't have cared because it wouldn't mean money coming out of their pockets to help out one of the richest owners in the NBA.


Years of whining about Stern fixing games for the Lakers favor and you say Laker fans have the persecution complex? I understand you hate Laker fans, but be objective.

Gilbert actually complained that the Lakers were in too good of a position to obtain Howard post-Paul trade. Which of course would of added the large salaries of Dwight and Hedo. So what was it NBA owners? You didn't want the Lakers saving money or you were worried they were going to spend more money to get better?



> ^ I am going to start using your quote to respond to folks about this issue.


HB, it's not like you to ride the coattails of someone else's argument. Next thing you know you will quote some articles.


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Man I gotta admit, I was almost fooled by that Simmons article though. I actually thought that was a great deal for the Hornets. Until I realized Mr. Simmons left out age, Salaries and what conference those guys will be playing in.


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Phil Jackson:Trolling the NBA since 1967


----------



## clien

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HB said:


> Man I gotta admit, I was almost fooled by that Simmons article though. I actually thought that was a great deal for the Hornets. Until I realized Mr. Simmons left out age, Salaries and what conference those guys will be playing in.


the alternative is that the Hornets will get nothing for Chris Paul


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Damian Necronamous said:


> The problem is that that's the wrong way to look at it - the Hornets have the meet a minimum salary number for their team, and they were going to have an extremely difficult time doing that by keeping Paul and trying to sign FAs.


Really? Because they're actually only seven million short of the salary floor. They could have covered that by signing The Baconator and a couple of roleplayers. Or, you know, by re-signing David West? Whom they would have been forced to renounce in this trade because they didn't actually have enough cap space to pay all that flotsam and West under the cap. 

It's only when you subtract Paul's salary that it becomes a problem. And that would certainly have been a reason for them to have pursued a Clippers deal or any other trade built around expiring salary and draft picks, but the actual trade required them to get rid of a player to bring in a slightly older version thereof. Oh, yeah, they got a guy good for about 50 games a year, a reality TV star who really only has value to contending teams (all of whom would need to send back some ugly salaries for the Hornets to deal with them), a nevergonnabe and a pick at the end of the first round. It wouldn't make the Hornets "competitive" unless by "competitive" you mean "Will compete right down to the wire for the 14th pick in the draft!". 

And because the Hornets would be absorbing so many financial liabilities, it would submarine the team's resale value. And that's what's pissing off most of the other 28 guys, that LA was asking them to take a shave so that Dr. Jerry could get a little richer. Like I said, if Dr. Jerry was paying the freight, most of the owners wouldn't have given a shit.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



> “@WojYahooNBA: New Orleans, Houston and Lakers are re-engaged in talks to find a new way to complete Chris Paul blockbuster trade, league sources tell Y!”


..


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Floods said:


> You can't influence a competitors' roster when you have no involvement in the transaction.


You certainly can when you're the owner of the team. Teams don't get to make trades until their owners sign off on a deal. Put another way, it wasn't a legal trade until it was approved by a majority interest of the Hornets' owners. That majority said no. This is obviously the side effect of the other 29 teams buying the Hornets after refusing to allow Ellison to purchase the franchise. But, really, there's nothing to be done here. It wasn't a legal trade until the teams' owners agreed. The owners of one of those teams said no.


----------



## Floods

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



E.H. Munro said:


> You certainly can when you're the owner of the team. Teams don't get to make trades until their owners sign off on a deal. Put another way, it wasn't a legal trade until it was approved by a majority interest of the Hornets' owners. That majority said no. This is obviously the side effect of the other 29 teams buying the Hornets after refusing to allow Ellison to purchase the franchise. But, really, there's nothing to be done here. It wasn't a legal trade until the teams' owners agreed. The owners of one of those teams said no.


It's a _conflict of interest_. It's _collusion_. These teams have a vested interest in seeing that deal fall apart.

These are facts. The system itself may be bullshit, but that's not an excuse.


----------



## e-monk

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



E.H. Munro said:


> one of the wealthiest franchises in the game, in order for them to become even more valuable financially. If Demps had shipped him off to Indiana for Collison and a 2012 first the other owners wouldn't have cared because it wouldn't mean money coming out of their pockets to help out one of the richest owners in the NBA.


you know what? 

after staying in line during the lock-out and keeping his mouth shut while those self same incompetent owners took money out of his pocket and stripped away competitive advantages he's built over the length of a career maybe Buss should tell all of them to go **** themselves

to recap:

Buss is not even close to being one of the richest owners in the NBA

he does however have one of the best run, most successful and most profitable teams (and that's a bad thing?)

BUT he just sat still for 4 months while the imbeciles in the league pleaded poor and 'harrison bergeroned' the shit out of his team

and now they're going for the nuts - If I were him I would go Al Pacino all over the league

haters can hate all they want the health of the Lakers, Knicks, Celtics is tied closely to the success of the association


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HB said:


> Every body is out to get the lakers...yawn!


I guess everyone is out to get NO too.




> The Hornets were disappointed the deal was not approved.
> 
> "Of course, Dell (Demps) and Monty (Williams) were very upset when everything fell through," said a person familiar with the work the general manager and coach had put into negotiations that led to the proposed trade. "They had spent a lot of time on it and they thought it was a great deal for the team."


http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?w=1b9zm&storyId=7336410


----------



## Floods

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



e-monk said:


> he does however have one of the best run, most successful and most profitable teams


The... PIG!


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



e-monk said:


> haters can hate all they want the health of the Lakers, Knicks, Celtics is tied closely to the success of the association


In that case why don't they form their own super league with their own super teams and do away with the NBA? After all without them the association can't survive...right?

And of course he wasn't saying anything during those meetings, the system benefits his team. Why would he want it changed?


----------



## e-monk

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HB said:


> Man I gotta admit, I was almost fooled by that Simmons article though. I actually thought that was a great deal for the Hornets. Until I realized Mr. Simmons left out age, Salaries and what conference those guys will be playing in.


yeah because a 27 year old PG with knee injury problems (who is essentially forcing his team to make a decision and so will make it impossible for them to get full value anyway) is totally worth more than a package representing the 2nd team all NBA PF AND the reigning 6th man of the year 

seriously, if someone as plainly biased against the Lakers as Bosox Bill is thinks Pau and Odom have value what's it say about you that you dont?


----------



## LA68

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Dan Gilbert's email: _Over the next three seasons this deal would save the Lakers approximately $20 million in salaries and approximately $21 million in luxury taxes. That $21 million goes to non-taxpaying teams and to fund revenue sharing._

When the cheapskate teams begged for harder penalties for luxury tax teams, they assumed the Lakers would stay up in the $90 million range. 

Poor teams like the Cavs have been receiving approx. $1 million from the Lakers alone. They didn't realize that the Lakers would be smart enough to trade 2 for 1 to begin getting under that tax and still have a good team.

This trade, amnesty World Peace,Luke's medical retirement and the payroll is just under that tax. Then where does Gilbert get his free $1 million per year from ?? 

The Lakers have that huge billion dollar t.v. deal. Gilbert and Jordan are jealous. They want to make the Lakers pay them in any way they can. Lakers found a way around it and it irritates them.


----------



## e-monk

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HB said:


> In that case why don't they form their own super league with their own super teams and do away with the NBA? After all without them the association can't survive...right?


I invite you to review the value of these teams to television ratings and then correllate them to the value of national and regional tv contracts to the health of the league

I might recommend further research and suggest that you study attendance records for when those teams visit the home courts of mediocre/poorly run squads

(for further fun maybe you should review jersey and souvenir sales by player/franchise)



> And of course he wasn't saying anything during those meetings, the system benefits his team. Why would he want it changed?


you really think that? I'm struggling to not just discount everything you've said up to this point and drop the pretense of civility - luxury tax penalties just got more intense, MLE rules changed adversely, S&T rules changed adversely and now the team has to share more of its profit with the 'lesser have' squads - sure why would he want any of that changed? wow... is all I can say.


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



e-monk said:


> *I invite you to review the value of these teams to television ratings and then correllate them to the value of national and regional tv contracts to the health of the league
> 
> I might recommend further research and suggest that you study attendance records for when those teams visit the home courts of mediocre/poorly run squads
> 
> (for further fun maybe you should review jersey and souvenir sales by player/franchise)*


They have the best players, no surprise people want to watch them but how exactly does it benefit the league that they are the only ones that get the best players and get to keep them? Does the word competition mean anything to you?



> you really think that? I'm struggling to not just discount everything you've said up to this point and drop the pretense of civility - luxury tax penalties just got more intense, MLE rules changed adversely, S&T rules changed adversely and the team has to share more of its profit with the 'lesser have' squads - sure why would he want any of that changed? wow... is all I can say.


Did someone not just mention a billion dollar tv deal? Pretty sure when it comes to money issues, the Knicks and Lakers are playing in a different field as compared to the rest of the league.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Occupy the Lakers


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



LA68 said:


> Dan Gilbert's email: _Over the next three seasons this deal would save the Lakers approximately $20 million in salaries and approximately $21 million in luxury taxes. That $21 million goes to non-taxpaying teams and to fund revenue sharing._
> 
> When the cheapskate teams begged for harder penalties for luxury tax teams, they assumed the Lakers would stay up in the $90 million range.
> 
> Poor teams like the Cavs have been receiving approx. $1 million from the Lakers alone. They didn't realize that the Lakers would be smart enough to trade 2 for 1 to begin getting under that tax and still have a good team.
> 
> This trade, amnesty World Peace,Luke's medical retirement and the payroll is just under that tax. Then where does Gilbert get his free $1 million per year from ??
> 
> The Lakers have that huge billion dollar t.v. deal. Gilbert and Jordan are jealous. They want to make the Lakers pay them in any way they can. Lakers found a way around it and it irritates them.


Ah yes.

NBA:Where free-loading owners happen.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HB said:


> They have the best players, no surprise people want to watch them but how exactly does it benefit the league that they are the only ones that get the best players and get to keep them? Does the word competition mean anything to you?
> 
> 
> 
> Did someone not just mention a billion dollar tv deal? Pretty sure when it comes to money issues, the Knicks and Lakers are playing in a different field as compared to the rest of the league.


The Lakers were a top 2 team in road attendance in the years 2004 through 2007 despite not making it out of the first round any of those years.


----------



## sonicFLAME6

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

The union is giving the NBA a Monday deadline to trade Paul before they take legal action.


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

I'll say this though, Stern's legacy has been tainted


----------



## Floods

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

While this is pathetic, Wilbon pulling the race card is just stupid.


----------



## HKF

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

It's always about racism in the NBA, because it affects black players. Seriously, Wilbon should meet my fist. Idiot.


----------



## Marcus13

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

No way Stern can back down now. No possible way


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



E.H. Munro said:


> Really? Because they're actually only seven million short of the salary floor. They could have covered that by signing The Baconator and a couple of roleplayers. Or, you know, by re-signing David West? Whom they would have been forced to renounce in this trade because they didn't actually have enough cap space to pay all that flotsam and West under the cap.
> 
> It's only when you subtract Paul's salary that it becomes a problem. And that would certainly have been a reason for them to have pursued a Clippers deal or any other trade built around expiring salary and draft picks, but the actual trade required them to get rid of a player to bring in a slightly older version thereof. Oh, yeah, they got a guy good for about 50 games a year, a reality TV star who really only has value to contending teams (all of whom would need to send back some ugly salaries for the Hornets to deal with them), a nevergonnabe and a pick at the end of the first round. It wouldn't make the Hornets "competitive" unless by "competitive" you mean "Will compete right down to the wire for the 14th pick in the draft!".
> 
> And because the Hornets would be absorbing so many financial liabilities, it would submarine the team's resale value. And that's what's pissing off most of the other 28 guys, that LA was asking them to take a shave so that Dr. Jerry could get a little richer. Like I said, if Dr. Jerry was paying the freight, most of the owners wouldn't have given a shit.


You think Stern OKs this deal if the Hornets throw Okafor over to the Lakers? Valid question...


----------



## Jamel Irief

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Damian Necronamous said:


> You think Stern OKs this deal if the Hornets throw Okafor over to the Lakers? Valid question...


If he did it because of the envious owners than maybe because without that TPE it's harder to get Dwight. If he did it to make the Hornets more appealing to a buyer than no. If he did it to keep the Lakers in the luxury tax than yes.


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Chapter 2 of the same trade has begun. This gives stern his chance to save face.

http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?w=1b9zx&storyId=7336597


----------



## FSH

*Re: Update: Paul to LA nixed by Stern, Owners*

im betting this trade happens Stern doesnt want this to go any farther(court, etc)...Im guessing David West or Okafor go to LA so Hornets can shed some more salary in this trade


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Let me understand this. This trade was good for the hornets by netting them pennies to the dollar while letting the best player in the trade other than Paul go to a different team? That's a terrible trade! on to of that, scola is over thirty, odom is over thirty. They're not getting better and you can only play 5 guys at a time. I would be fine with this trade if they got gasol and odom.


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

So its going to happen, but what young players and picks do the Lakers and Rockets have to give the Hornets? 

Unbelievable! Dwight better go to the Nets. This is one wacky league.

The silver lining will be getting to see just how well the Hornets do this season. We'll see what all the folks on here and in the media will say about the 'new' Hornets


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HB said:


> So its going to happen, but what young players and picks do the Lakers and Rockets have to give the Hornets?


None. I think it more the Hornets shedding a bunch of salary in this deal is the key to making it happen

But the Rockets do have Jordan Hill,Patrick Patterson that could end up in the deal


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



FSH said:


> None. I think it more the Hornets shedding a bunch of salary in this deal is the key to making it happen
> 
> *But the Rockets do have Jordan Hill,Patrick Patterson that could end up in the deal*


:banghead: Wow. I give up.


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



> As Hornets restart trade talks, directive from NBA is to get better, younger package, to ensure long-term success, I'm told.


 - Howard Beck

Patterson and Hill do that?

Meanwhile GSW would give them Ellis, but noooo they'd rather take back Scola and Odom in their 30s.


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HB said:


> - Howard Beck
> 
> Patterson and Hill do that?
> 
> Meanwhile GSW would give them Ellis, but noooo they'd rather take back Scola and Odom in their 30s.


them 2 and a 1st rounder most likely would...and LA taking some salary back from NO

i was surprise that NO didnt want young guys back in the first place instead of Scola


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Hornets can't get a much better or younger package from the teams involved. Maybe the Rockets throw Patterson in the pot and hold on to the Knicks 1st rounder, which'll most likely be in the early to mid 20s anyway. Hard to see that happening, Patterson has upside and they're already kinda getting boned in this deal.

Maybe the Lakers hold on to Odom as well, he could probably be used a potential Howard deal.


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Floods said:


> Hard to see that happening, Patterson has upside and they're already kinda getting boned in this deal.


the rockets want gasol badly so i wouldnt be surprise if they did Patterson and the Pick


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

I wonder why the Rockets want Pau so badly.....is it because of McHale?


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Game3525 said:


> I wonder why the Rockets want Pau so badly.....is it because of McHale?


i was wondering the same thing...maybe because he is a name they can build around? after Yao retired they got no one

You really want your team brand built around Scola and Kevin Martin?


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Build around Pau Gasol? Lol good one.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

CP3, Ariza to LA
Pau to HOU
Odom, Martin, Patrick Patterson, Goran Dragic, Chase Budinger, Hasheem Thabeet, Devin Ebanks, Darius Morris, 1st rounder to NO

I have a hard time seeing that one not being allowed.

As a Lakers fan, I don't mind losing Morris and Ebanks if we have Paul and Ariza to replace them. Really intrigued to see what this mystery deal for a PF is...have a feeling it involves Drew Gooden from MIL.


----------



## Hibachi!

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

I can't believe what the Rockets were going to give up for Pau. That's insane, and a terrible trade for them.


----------



## Mrs. Thang

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

All of the bad things said about Stern today are going to look pretty funny when his actions end up getting New Orleans a dramatically better deal


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



FSH said:


> None. I think it more the Hornets shedding a bunch of salary in this deal is the key to making it happen
> 
> But the Rockets do have Jordan Hill,Patrick Patterson that could end up in the deal


The Hornets can not possibly shed salary. They have five players under contract plus Patrick Ewing Jr and a bunch of D league players in camp. They could trade guys with big contracts like Okafor, but in the end they are bound by the CBA to pay out around 50 million in salary.

Really I don't think this new trade is better for the Hornets unless you somehow believe these new guys will be better than Scola. Scola has a real value and they would be better off trying to trade him for what they need than to just take anyone with 'potential' on the other two rosters. I got potential, but I have been saving it for a really desperate situation.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Mrs. Thang said:


> All of the bad things said about Stern today are going to look pretty funny when his actions end up getting New Orleans a dramatically better deal


the hornets aren't going to get any deal that makes them a better team in the near future than the one they were getting. getting scola, martin, odom, and dragic let them stay a 5th-8th seeded playoff team like they already were.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



FSH said:


> You really want your team brand built around Scola and Kevin Martin?


According to you and some others that's a great return. 

(And as a Rockets fan I wish they'd get the hell out of this deal. And fire Morey with extreme prejudice for assembling this cluster**** of a roster.)


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



rocketeer said:


> the hornets aren't going to get any deal that makes them a better team in the near future than the one they were getting. getting scola, martin, odom, and dragic let them stay a 5th-8th seeded playoff team like they already were.


I'm sorry, were the Hornets getting moved to the NBDL as part of the Paul trade? Or are they being sold to a Spanish investor to head over there and join the ACB? I mean, the 2011 Houston Rockets were a 43 win team, and the new Hornets would be a worse version thereof. There's no way they're playing for a fifth seed in the NBA. They'd be barely competitive for the eighth seed.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



E.H. Munro said:


> I'm sorry, were the Hornets getting moved to the NBDL as part of the Paul trade? Or are they being sold to a Spanish investor to head over there and join the ACB? I mean, the 2011 Houston Rockets were a 43 win team, and the new Hornets would be a worse version thereof. There's no way they're playing for a fifth seed in the NBA. They'd be barely competitive for the eighth seed.


the hornets would have been a better version of what the rockets were. they'd be a 46ish win team(in an 82 games season) just like they were with chris paul.

okafor, jack, ariza, odom is a better group of guys to put with scola, martin, and dragic than the lowry, budinger, lee, hayes, hill, random assortment of other players the rockets had.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

I have no idea WTF the Rockets are trying to do with Gasol. If this was 5 years ago, sure. But right now? Hell no stay away, just tank and rebuild from the bottom up. We got a couple good drafts coming up. Take advantage of what you can get. Dont delay it anymore. Our window is closed.


----------



## Kneejoh

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

One source says that Houston might not be involved now, but most are saying that they are close to reaching a deal and it could happen as early as Saturday. 

I'm hoping Pau can be swapped out for Bynum though, really don't want to see the guy go.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

“@ESPNSteinLine: Just filed to ESPN w/@Chris_Broussard: New trade framework of original three-team CP3 deal has been submitted to league office for approval”


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Well, we'll see how this goes now.


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

If this deal goes through as suggested, Stern should retire. He has lost it. So Lakers add bums like Ebanks and Caracter and all is well? Never mind those picks will be at the bottom of the draft. What a sham


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Who gives a **** if the picks are at the bottom of the draft. If you know what you're doing then it shouldn't be an issue. Marc Gasol is a perfect example.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Stern should be fired anyways though for killing a perfectly fair deal in the first place.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HB said:


> If this deal goes through as suggested, Stern should retire. He has lost it. So Lakers add bums like Ebanks and Caracter and all is well? Never mind those picks will be at the bottom of the draft. What a sham


WTF are you talking about? The "sham" occurred on Thursday, when Stern "lost it" and decided to **** up everything by denying a trade for "basketball reasons" whatever the **** that means.


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Yeah because there are so many Marc Gasol type players that can be found at the bottom of the draft. How many Marc Gasol type players have the Lakers drafted in recent memory, they are always at the bottom of the draft no?


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

We drafted Marc Gasol....


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Why are you bitching about it HB?

You were the one saying how much this trade hurts LA, you should be happy that it goes through.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HB said:


> Yeah because there are so many Marc Gasol type players that can be found at the bottom of the draft. How many Marc Gasol type players have the Lakers drafted in recent memory, they are always at the bottom of the draft no?


Nick Van Exel was drafted 37th overall, 2nd round pick.


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

I said I was worried about what they'd get after that and that's Dwight.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Ebanks and Caracter are both 2nd round picks that are perfectly serviceable NBA players with plenty of upside. Ebanks in particular.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HB said:


> I said I was worried about what they'd get after that and that's Dwight.


You may well have reason to worry.

Even though I am not sure as a fan you would "worry" perhaps you should just enjoy whatever dynasty ensues from the weekend.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Walton, Vujacic and Farmar were all big parts of a championship team all drafted with low picks.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Well, I can't say I blame HB for being pissed. If my team was about to give an above average player 64 million, and lose Dwight Howard, and possible lose Deron Williams, I would be pretty up tight as well.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

So the Lakers keep Odom so that they can remain luxury tax rich and take back Okafor?

Pau
Ebanks
Caracter
6 million TPE

for Paul and Okafor? Or did Woj just not mention Odom?

If Odom doesn't leave that opens the door to send him to Orlando with Bynum for Hedo and Dwight?


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Lmao, talk about sheer incompetence by Stern and the Owners.

This is highway robbery if we get to keep LO.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Jamel Irief said:


> So the Lakers keep Odom so that they can remain luxury tax rich and take back Okafor?
> 
> Pau
> Ebanks
> Caracter
> 6 million TPE
> 
> for Paul and Okafor? Or did Woj just not mention Odom?
> 
> If Odom doesn't leave that opens the door to send him to Orlando with Bynum for Hedo and Dwight?


That doesn't work salary wise. You can't add the TPE to other salaries. I think Woj just omitted Odom.


----------



## Wilmatic2

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Jamel Irief said:


> So the Lakers keep Odom so that they can remain luxury tax rich and take back Okafor?
> 
> Pau
> Ebanks
> Caracter
> 6 million TPE
> 
> for Paul and Okafor? Or did Woj just not mention Odom?
> 
> If Odom doesn't leave that opens the door to send him to Orlando with Bynum for Hedo and Dwight?


If this is true, I find it funny that Stern f*cked up the original trade, which was a lot more beneficial for NO in my opinion.
Package Odom and Bynum plus filler for D12.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> That doesn't work salary wise. You can't add the TPE to other salaries. I think Woj just omitted Odom.


He didn't mention Dragic either. If Odom and Dragic are still there all that changes is Ebanks and Caracter for Okafor. I'll take that gladly over the original.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> That doesn't work salary wise. You can't add the TPE to other salaries. I think Woj just omitted Odom.


what is the trade exception for then if not to make up the difference in such transactions?



btw - Stern and other owners are a freaking joke - were about to give the hornets a worse deal and the only difference is the money


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



e-monk said:


> what is the trade exception for then if not to make up the difference in such transactions?


You can't add it to other salaries. It is used to bring in a player who makes the amount of the TPE or less. For example, the Lakers could use it to bring in Jack from the Hornets. But technically it is considered a separate trade.


----------



## Laker Freak

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



e-monk said:


> what is the trade exception for then if not to make up the difference in such transactions?
> 
> 
> 
> btw - Stern and other owners are a freaking joke - were about to give the hornets a worse deal and the only difference is the money


You can use package the TE with draft picks and/or cash to add a player from another team.


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Lol at sending Odom to the Magic like he's some building block. The Nets have a better package for Dwight don't worry


----------



## sonicFLAME6

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Maybe Stern didn't like both Gasol and Odom being shipped off from LA cause it sort of closed the door on Dwight to LA. Those are good basketball reasons.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HB said:


> Lol at sending Odom to the Magic like he's some building block. The Nets have a better package for Dwight don't worry


Good luck doing that when you sign Nene.


----------



## BenDengGo

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Proposed Breakdown of Trade

Rockets In <--- Gasol
Rockets Out ---> Knicks 2012 1st Rd Pick, Martin, Scola

Lakers In <---- Paul, Okafor
Lakers Out ----> Gasol, Bynum

Hornets In <---- Martin, Scola, Bynum, Knicks 2012 1st Rd Pick
Hornets Out ----> Paul, Okafor


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

The Lakers should hang up the phone if that is the proposed deal.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

If that's the deal, I will murder a unicorn....


----------



## Laker Freak

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Yeah I would trade Bynum and Gasol for Howard but if that's what it takes to get CP3 they're better off just keeping what they have.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

man this whole mess is just a ****ing train wreck


----------



## sonicFLAME6

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

There was in uproar about the nixed trade an fans in LA were ready to burn Stern at steak. But if the Lakers keep Odom then package him for a deal for Dwight you guys better send him a fruit basket with a thank you note lol


----------



## Laker Freak

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

So I'm guessing Bynum is staying. 



> Marc Stein Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
> 
> 
> Most recent construction of CP3 trade, sources say, does indeed still send Odom to NOH. Hornets want him as much as Martin/Scola, even ...


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



> .“@ESPNSteinLine: Most recent construction of CP3 trade, sources say, does indeed still send Odom to NOH. Hornets want him as much as Martin/Scola, even ...”


..


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

This is the same trade lol. The only folks happy with this are Lakefs fans. Show me a single Rockets or Hornets fan that likes this?


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



> .“@chadfordinsider: Lots of speculation that Emeka Okafor is in the new CP3 deal. *Source says he is not part of trade.”


..


----------



## TrailofDead

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Absolutely no one is reporting Bynum is in the trade. So where did you get your info?



BenDengGo said:


> Proposed Breakdown of Trade
> 
> Rockets In <--- Gasol
> Rockets Out ---> Knicks 2012 1st Rd Pick, Martin, Scola
> 
> Lakers In <---- Paul, Okafor
> Lakers Out ----> Gasol, Bynum
> 
> Hornets In <---- Martin, Scola, Bynum, Knicks 2012 1st Rd Pick
> Hornets Out ----> Paul, Okafor


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Laker Freak said:


> So I'm guessing Bynum is staying.


Thank God.

Trading away Pau and Bynum for Paul is awful for the Lakers.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

just read - offer is mostly the same + okafor (and Caracter/Ebanks)

if so this means that 'basketball reasons' = cheap ass owners not wanting to increase payroll in Nola and wanting to collect on LAL lux tax

and its a better offer for the Lakers who would then look like this

Paul
Kobe
World Peace
Okafor
Bynum


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



e-monk said:


> just read - offer is mostly the same + okafor (and Caracter/Ebanks)
> 
> if so this means that 'basketball reasons' = cheap ass owners not wanting to increase payroll in Nola and wanting to collect on LAL lux tax
> 
> and its a better offer for the Lakers


That and Dan Gilbert gets to free load off the Lakers since they would still pay the luxury tax.


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Sham sports


----------



## sonicFLAME6

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Okafor will be playing C by mid February.


----------



## Kneejoh

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

This trade doesn't help the Lakers! I don't understand why so many Lakers fans are excited.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

I'm fine with our taking back Okafor - he's better than anyone we could sign with our mini MLE. Tough to lose Ebanks, but we have like 10 SFs any way...


----------



## Kneejoh

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Hate to see Pau go like this, just saw on twitter a picture of the Lakers practice and the guy is still there knowing he'll be gone within a day or two. Can't believe they're sending him out like this, 3 finals, 2 rings, in 3.5 seasons and he gets sent away in a trade that doesn't even make the team better. Who the f is running stuff over there? Get rid of Bynum, Pau has been and will continue to be the better player.


----------



## Luke

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Okafor is a big plus.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HB said:


> Sham sports


You are full of crap. If Howard ends up in NJ, I want to see you post this as well.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



thug_immortal8 said:


> Hate to see Pau go like this, just saw on twitter a picture of the Lakers practice and the guy is still there knowing he'll be gone within a day or two. Can't believe they're sending him out like this, 3 finals, 2 rings, in 3.5 seasons and he gets sent away in a trade that doesn't even make the team better. Who the f is running stuff over there? Get rid of Bynum, Pau has been and will continue to be the better player.


That is stupid.

I like Pau as well, but Bynum has more value. 

If you can ship Paul/LO for Paul, and then turn around in flip Bynum for Dwight, then you do it no questions asked.


----------



## Kneejoh

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Game3525 said:


> That is stupid.
> 
> I like Pau as well, but Bynum has more value.
> 
> If you can ship Paul/LO for Paul, and then turn around in flip Bynum for Dwight, then you do it no questions asked.


My concern is that it's not a guarantee that we get Dwight, this trade does not make the Lakers better. Pau is the better player and Bynum has more value, Bynum should be the one being dangled as trade bait.


----------



## MojoPin

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



thug_immortal8 said:


> Hate to see Pau go like this, just saw on twitter a picture of the Lakers practice and the guy is still there knowing he'll be gone within a day or two. Can't believe they're sending him out like this, 3 finals, 2 rings, in 3.5 seasons and he gets sent away in a trade that doesn't even make the team better. Who the f is running stuff over there? Get rid of Bynum, Pau has been and will continue to be the better player.


Pshhh. He also was directly responsible for the lakers losing in the playoffs last year. He put on a shameful display of effort.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



thug_immortal8 said:


> My concern is that it's not a guarantee that we get Dwight, this trade does not make the Lakers better. Pau is the better player and Bynum has more value, Bynum should be the one being dangled as trade bait.


No trade is a guarantee, but the Lakers have a good shot of pulling off a trade for Howard.

If teams are willing to go after Pau, then it would stupid for the Lakers to dangle Bynum instead.

Pau may be the better player, but Drew is the bigger asset at this point.


----------



## Kneejoh

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



MojoPin said:


> Pshhh. He also was directly responsible for the lakers losing in the playoffs last year. He put on a shameful display of effort.


There was not a player that had a good series against Dallas. No point in holding it against Pau if everybody else played awful basketball too.


----------



## MojoPin

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



thug_immortal8 said:


> There was not a player that had a good series against Dallas. No point in holding it against Pau if everybody else played awful basketball too.


Yeah but he did it in the new Orleans series too...

That team was ready to win another title and all of a sudden Pau gasol completely disappears. People are forgetting how bad he was.


----------



## sonicFLAME6

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

How exactly is Gasol responsible for losing vs Dallas? Kobe forgot how to attack the run had about 1 lay up and 0 dunks and the rest of the team forgot how to play defense. Not too mention DAL was on fire from the 3 pt line. You can put it on Pau. Hes a solid player, go and watch game 7 vs the Celtics then tell me Bynum is more valuable.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



MojoPin said:


> Yeah but he did it in the new Orleans series too...
> 
> That team was ready to win another title and all of a sudden Pau gasol completely disappears. People are forgetting how bad he was.


Seems like you are the one forgetting how GOOD he was. Why didn't we trade Kobe after he cost us the 2004 finals?


----------



## Kneejoh

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Dallas was the better team anyways, let's not forget that. But yes, over Pau's time with the Lakers it was clear not only who was better but also who was more important. It's not a knock on Bynum, I just really don't like this trade as a Lakers fan.


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Pau Gasol hasn't been a top player in a while. Hence the Lakers dumping his sorry ass.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Adam said:


> Pau Gasol hasn't been a top player in a while. Hence the Lakers dumping his sorry ass.


:lol:

You can only WISH you had a 4 like that. :laugh:


----------



## Kneejoh

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Adam said:


> Pau Gasol hasn't been a top player in a while. Hence the Lakers dumping his sorry ass.


Yea he's so awful they're either dumping him for the best PG in the league or the best C...


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Nobody wants this trade in Houston. All over the radio its a huge WTF is going on. Not to mention the Rockets facebook is being bombed like hell with anti-trade posts.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



OneBadLT123 said:


> Nobody wants this trade in Houston. All over the radio its a huge WTF is going on. Not to mention the Rockets facebook is being bombed like hell with anti-trade posts.


If they don't want it, then why are they doing it?


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Ron said:


> If they don't want it, then why are they doing it?


The fans don't want it, the fans and local media wants to build over the next 2 years with youth. But Darryl Morey is trying to grasp for stings here thinking we still have a chance. Our window is closed and getting Pau is not going to fix it. We need to tank up and get youth in the next 2 drafts. 

Morey is delusional


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

If they land Nene or Marc Gasol to pair with Pau then the Rockets got a pretty good deal....


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> If they land Nene or Marc Gasol to pair with Pau then the Rockets got a pretty good deal....


Bingo.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> If they land Nene or Marc Gasol to pair with Pau then the Rockets got a pretty good deal....


Nene is pretty much out of the question since he's almost a Net, and whatever we can offer Marc Gasol Memphis is going to match.

We're toast.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Ron said:


> If they don't want it, then why are they doing it?


Because the Rube Goldberg idiot running the franchise is the same asshole responsible for "The Scalabrine Effect!" and trading for Wally Szczerbiak Szczuperstar while he was Boston's assistant GM and then came to Houston and promptly traded Rudy Gay for Shane Battier. His record isn't exactly strewn with gold. I wish to **** that Houston would fire him and let him go **** up some other NBA team.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



OneBadLT123 said:


> Nene is pretty much out of the question since he's almost a Net, and whatever we can offer Marc Gasol Memphis is going to match.
> 
> We're toast.


Like Dwight Howard was almost a Net 36 hours ago?


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



> .“@daldridgetnt: Source: revised CP3 deal has not been submitted yet to league, is "still being developed." Rockets still in deal, per multiple sources.”


..


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Ron said:


> :lol:
> 
> You can only WISH you had a 4 like that. :laugh:


You seem to have a very short memory. It's my team that is the championship contender last year, this year, and for the next decade. Not yours.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> If they land Nene or Marc Gasol to pair with Pau then the Rockets got a pretty good deal....


No they didn't, Nene's beyond overrated(he's a serviceable third option on the right team and that's it) and Marc's going to be retained by Memphis. Paying $35 million a year for a sidekick to be your franchise guy and a role player to be your sidekick is moronic. If Houston is of a mind to do this deal, then that's their option, but let's not act like this deal getting held up potentially screws Houston out of a good team.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



> .“@WojYahooNBA: Rockets will have changes to their part of proposed 3-way deal, league sources tell Y! Sports. They'd be sending more players to Hornets.”


..


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



> . “@Chris_Broussard: Initially, Hou part of deal was same - Scola, Martin & pick going to NO & Pau to Hou. Now, at NBA/NO's request, Hou sending out more players”


...


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

So Houston fans should be even happier, considering they will send more players out in the deal.

How do all these sources know these things without names attached? You have to take these dribblings with a shaker of salt.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Adam said:


> You seem to have a very short memory. It's my team that is the championship contender last year, this year, and for the next decade. Not yours.


I don't think so. You can "contend" for the championship every year and not win it, certainly without the necessary big men that you will need. And as far as "my" team goes, well that team is still being molded as we post here, now isn't it?


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

This is getting out of hand, clearly we're not in a position of power. We look desperate and the sharks are eating off it.


----------



## Kneejoh

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Can Houston just call this off, I like the way my team is right now. Come on Morey, stop getting robbed.


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Ron said:


> I don't think so. You can "contend" for the championship every year and not win it, certainly without the necessary big men that you will need. And as far as "my" team goes, well that team is still being molded as we post here, now isn't it?


Yeah, I wish I had Pau Gasol. I really sit around wishing I had a different roster from the one which is the odds on favorite to win the championship. On top of that a soft over-the-hill scrub big man like Pau Gasol.

Your team traded two of its top three players. That should tell you how much of a contender you were before this trade. I've been saying for over a year your roster as was previous would not contend. Seems the Buss family agrees with me.

Good luck with your new roster. You needed it.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Adam said:


> Yeah, I wish I had Pau Gasol. I really sit around wishing I had a different roster from the one which is the odds on favorite to win the championship. On top of that a soft over-the-hill scrub big man like Pau Gasol.
> 
> Your team traded two of its top three players. That should tell you how much of a contender you were before this trade. I've been saying for over a year your roster as was previous would not contend. Seems the Buss family agrees with me.
> 
> Good luck with your new roster. You needed it.


Really?

From what I can tell, the Lakers are getting about 10 years younger at some of those core positions. They are getting the top point guard in the game today and are going for the top center as well.

You are not analyzing the deals in the long-term. That is what the Lakers are doing, and that is why they have 16 titles to your team's 2. Uh, I mean 1.

Stop eating those








.


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Ron said:


> Really?
> 
> From what I can tell, the Lakers are getting about 10 years younger at some of those core positions. They are getting the top point guard in the game today and are going for the top center as well.
> 
> You are not analyzing the deals in the long-term. That is what the Lakers are doing, and that is why they have 16 titles to your team's 2. Uh, I mean 1.
> 
> Stop eating those
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Didn't I just say I'm glad for you that you're improving your roster? Your old roster wasn't a contender.

And there's no reason for me to have sour grapes. My team is actually a contender. Yours currently isn't. I'll promise to stay out of the NBA History section though. I know I can't win that one.


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

O Ron!



> Dwight Howard has requested that the Orlando Magic trade him to the New Jersey Nets, league sources tell Y! Sports.


 - Woj


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Ron said:


> So Houston fans should be even happier, considering they will send more players out in the deal.
> 
> How do all these sources know these things without names attached? You have to take these dribblings with a shaker of salt.


I told you guys, show me one Hornets or Rockets fan that likes this deal


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HB said:


> O Ron!
> 
> - Woj


It has its own thread, post your nonsense there.


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Welp supposedly the Lakers were going to be forming Voltron this year. Must have gotten their facts wrong


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

*Adrian Wojnarowski* @WojYahooNBA 14 mins



> Lakers had been searching for deal in past day to obtain a first-round pick to send New Orleans as part of Chris Paul package, sources say.


But there has been no indication that the Lakers were asked to send more players (or picks), just the Rockets. So this is now becoming sort of confusing.

It's probably why the league has not approved the deal as of yet.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Ron said:


> I don't think so. You can "contend" for the championship every year and not win it, certainly without the necessary big men that you will need. And as far as "my" team goes, well that team is still being molded as we post here, now isn't it?


When you hang conference and division championship banners and Dan Marino and Michael Jordan's jersey you are happy just to contend. 

The Lakers have been to more finals than the other teams in the West combined, so it's championship or bust.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Adam said:


> Pau Gasol hasn't been a top player in a while. Hence the Lakers dumping his sorry ass.


You don't dump a guy when you are getting the best player at his position in the league. Did we dump Shaq's sorry ass on the Heat?

People smarter than you voted Gasol to the All-NBA team last year.


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Jamel Irief said:


> When you hang conference and division championship banners and Dan Marino and Michael Jordan's jersey you are happy just to contend.
> 
> The Lakers have been to more finals than the other teams in the West combined, so it's championship or bust.


You guys didn't have to worry about hanging any conference banners last year.



Jamel Irief said:


> You don't dump a guy when you are getting the best player at his position in the league. Did we dump Shaq's sorry ass on the Heat?
> 
> People smarter than you voted Gasol to the All-NBA team last year.


People smarter than me said the Lakers were contenders and I said they would lose to the Mavs. I'm just a dummy.


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

I don't see this ending well for the Lakers.

Kobe and Paul without Howard is basically an incomplete championship team, and if Howard really has requested a trade to Jersey, as good as the Lakers are going to be is contending in the West.

Like I said before, I probably have them in the Finals (by default) but I don't see them besting the Heat.

The Chris Paul trade works if you're getting Howard immediately after. Otherwise, it's a lateral move. 

They're still not good enough.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Adam said:


> People smarter than me said the Lakers were contenders and I said they would lose to the Mavs. I'm just a dummy.


Well, at least the Lakers and Heat had something in common last year.


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Ron said:


> Well, at least the Lakers and Heat had something in common last year.


The Heat got out of the second round. Your team didn't.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Adam said:


> You guys didn't have to worry about hanging any conference banners last year.


We never do and never would.




> People smarter than me said the Lakers were contenders and I said they would lose to the Mavs. I'm just a dummy.


You are also the same guy that picked the Heat to beat the Celtics in 2010, the same year you picked the Cavs to win 70 games. So maybe you are.

Who did you pick to beat the Mavs in the Finals last year?


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Pay Ton said:


> I don't see this ending well for the Lakers.
> 
> Kobe and Paul without Howard is basically an incomplete championship team, and if Howard really has requested a trade to Jersey, as good as the Lakers are going to be is contending in the West.
> 
> Like I said before, I probably have them in the Finals (by default) but I don't see them besting the Heat.
> 
> The Chris Paul trade works if you're getting Howard immediately after. Otherwise, it's a lateral move.
> 
> They're still not good enough.


I have the same doubts, however at this point for chemistry's sake it's best just to move forward and end this so Mike Brown can start doing his job in a very short season.


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Jamel Irief said:


> We never do and never would.


It means little when you aren't even winning them anymore.




> You are also the same guy that picked the Heat to beat the Celtics in 2010, the same year you picked the Cavs to win 70 games. So maybe you are.
> 
> Who did you pick to beat the Mavs in the Finals last year?


Wrong, Archivist. I said the Heat would lose that year. I called the Celtics our worst possible matchup and said we would lose. I voted in a stupid poll Heat in 4 as a joke.

I picked the Mavs to win it all last year.

I feel like Bill Murray. All last year I had to listen to Ron and you tell me the Lakers were contenders then when they got swept in the second round here you are again having the same argument six months later. Even if I'm proven right you guys just parrot dumb history about Magic Johnson and your banners.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



> .“@DavidjBrickley: ESPN's Ric Bucher reporting that trade won't be approved til Monday, and a 4th team has been added to get draft picks.”


..


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

Lol the archivist is one heck of a moniker though


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*

NJ just got Howard then.

The Lakers hands are tied to this deal, NJ can pull a fast one and have Dwight by tomorrow.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Adam said:


> The Heat got out of the second round. Your team didn't.


So what?

It's not how far you get, it's if you get there.

The Heat are losers, just like the Lakers are. You only "win" if you win the title.

The Lakers don't have any "2nd place" banners hanging in their rafters. Maybe you guys are satisfied with that, but we will never be.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Adam said:


> It means little when you aren't even winning them anymore.


Again the Lakers have more conference championships than any team in the NBA and more than the rest of the Western teams COMBINED. Why would they care? Laker fans weren't boasting about losing in 08 and 04 like you are now, we hung our heads in shame.



> Wrong, Archivist. I said the Heat would lose that year. I called the Celtics our worst possible matchup and said we would lose. I voted in a stupid poll Heat in 4 as a joke.
> 
> I picked the Mavs to win it all last year.
> 
> I feel like Bill Murray. All last year I had to listen to Ron and you tell me the Lakers were contenders then when they got swept in the second round here you are again having the same argument six months later. Even if I'm proven right you guys just parrot dumb history about Magic Johnson and your banners.


The Lakers were contenders. Imploding and getting swept by the champs when they lost in the final minutes of two games didn't make you right. They were still one of the five best teams in the league last year.

Even if they don't get Dwight who is hands down better than them in the West this season? You can pick a team over them, hell I wouldn't put money on them making the finals with a new roster and coach in a short year, but don't try to convince me that they won't contend.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



HB said:


> Lol the archivist is one heck of a moniker though


Of course, I came up with it. 

My only regret is now you are gun shy about making predictions.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Game3525 said:


> NJ just got Howard then.
> 
> The Lakers hands are tied to this deal, NJ can pull a fast one and have Dwight by tomorrow.


It's not about pulling a fast one, it's about what they can offer and what the Lakers can't.

Everyone is forgetting that if the Lakers cannot get Howard, they still have Bynum. I am wondering why everyone thinks that is a bad thing.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Ron said:


> It's not about pulling a fast one, it's about what they can offer and what the Lakers can't.
> 
> Everyone is forgetting that if the Lakers cannot get Howard, they still have Bynum. I am wondering why everyone thinks that is a bad thing.


I am not worried about Bynum, I worried who plays the four now.

From the reports, Okafor isn't part of the deal and he would have been a terrible fit besides Drew anyway.


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Ron said:


> So what?
> 
> It's not how far you get, it's if you get there.
> 
> The Heat are losers, just like the Lakers are. You only "win" if you win the title.
> 
> The Lakers don't have any "2nd place" banners hanging in their rafters. Maybe you guys are satisfied with that, but we will never be.


The Heat didn't get swept in the second round.

All last year I brooked your snide comments about how the Lakers were the premiere team in the league and how Miami wasn't a good team and how the Lakers were a championship team. All season I stood by my claim that your team was shit and would lose. I said Dallas would beat them and you mocked Dallas (remember me bumping that?). How many ways can I one-up you? Apparently you will just come right back six months later and do it all over again.

So here goes: your team won't win a championship this year unless you get Dwight Howard. I'll put myself out there again. I know I get nothing out of this because you will just come back six months later talking about your banners and 16 titles.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Adam said:


> So here goes: your team won't win a championship this year unless you get Dwight Howard. I'll put myself out there again. I know I get nothing out of this because you will just come back six months later talking about your banners and 16 titles.


It will be 17. We can discuss it then.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Adam said:


> The Heat didn't get swept in the second round.
> 
> All last year I brooked your snide comments about how the Lakers were the premiere team in the league and how Miami wasn't a good team and how the Lakers were a championship team. All season I stood by my claim that your team was shit and would lose. I said Dallas would beat them and you mocked Dallas (remember me bumping that?). How many ways can I one-up you? Apparently you will just come right back six months later and do it all over again.
> 
> So here goes: your team won't win a championship this year unless you get Dwight Howard. I'll put myself out there again. I know I get nothing out of this because you will just come back six months later talking about your banners and 16 titles.


Who cares? Apparently you are proud of the Heat's season last year? Maybe the 16 banners get brought up because no one is impressed about losing in the finals, especially with that roster. If you have 2 finals wins in 2012 but still only one banner will you still brag?


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

Have not heard about a fourth team yet and who that may be, but this is essentially the same deal as Thursday, which would lead one to believe that the speculation that Stern asked the teams to resubmit is likely true.


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Jamel Irief said:


> Who cares? Apparently you are proud of the Heat's season last year? Maybe the 16 banners get brought up because no one is impressed about losing in the finals, especially with that roster. If you have 2 finals wins in 2012 but still only one banner will you still brag?


Of course I'm proud of how the Heat did. I expect them to go to many, many Finals over the next decade and they won't win every single one. Last season was a stepping stone. It's not like they're a team with an aging superstar whose window closed without them realizing it.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Adam said:


> Of course I'm proud of how the Heat did. I expect them to go to many, many Finals over the next decade and they won't win every single one. Last season was a stepping stone. It's not like they're a team with an aging superstar whose window closed without them realizing it.


More likely they will follow the same route as the Lakers did in the '60s...that is, without a big man, you can't win in the Finals. You can always get there, but never win.

But then again, if Howard goes to the Nets, I will have a hard time fathoming the Heat making it past the Nets to the Finals.

As far as your statement about a team with an aging superstar whose window is closing, Kobe already has 5 rings, and he got his first at 21 years of age. Some superstars never get one...at any age.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Adam said:


> Of course I'm proud of how the Heat did. I expect them to go to many, many Finals over the next decade and they won't win every single one. Last season was a stepping stone. It's not like they're a team with an aging superstar whose window closed without them realizing it.


And should Laker fans be worried? A team that's missed the playoffs twice in 34 years? We went 3 seasons without making the finals after trading Shaq and everyone got impatient and nearly freaked out. We have a storied history, supportive fan base, the best city in the US and an excellent front office. I'm not worried we'll be fine.

If we get Chris Paul it's championship or bust, hell without him it is. It will probably be that way until Kobe retires. I don't care if we lose in the second, first or the finals.


----------



## Seuss

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

I think Kobe and CP will experience the same difficulties that Wade and LeBron experienced; mainly the fact that they both operate so successful with the ball, that when one of them does not have the ball, it will effective their overall offensive performance. The Lakers should of went all-out for Dwight Howard, not CP.


----------



## Ron

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



Seuss said:


> I think Kobe and CP will experience the same difficulties that Wade and LeBron experienced; mainly the fact that they both operate so successful with the ball, that when one of them does not have the ball, it will effective their overall offensive performance. The Lakers should of went all-out for Dwight Howard, not CP.


Yup.

We will definitely need two basketballs on the court at the same time if they get CP3.


----------



## Diable

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

Kobe might want the ball, but if the Lakers have Paul they are going to let him decide who gets the ball. Unless Mike Brown is a complete fool he'll let Paul make the decisions on the court. Paul does not shoot all that much really, but like everything else he does he is extremely efficient when he does.


----------



## Seuss

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

I agree Chris Paul should be given the green light toward making decisions. However, it appears Kobe has slowly entered in the player-phase known as "Back-down-your-opponent" because he doesn't have the step he use to have. I just don't think letting Kobe isolate his opponent and keeping Paul on the three-point line will be very effective, let alone run the pick-n-roll with Mr. Broken-Knees Bynum. But again, this is a lot of speculation for not having seen the team play yet.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Adam said:


> You seem to have a very short memory. It's my team that is the championship contender last year, this year, and for the next decade. Not yours.


not sure what that has to do with you looking like an idiot trying to argue that an All NBA second teamer has no value but go ahead and keep trying to hang your hat on that one


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



e-monk said:


> not sure what that has to do with you looking like an idiot trying to argue that an All NBA second teamer has no value but go ahead and keep trying to hang your hat on that one


Where did I say he has no value?

I said he's over-the-hill, I didn't say he has no value. I said the Lakers are not contenders with him.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Adam said:


> Where did I say he has no value?
> 
> I said he's over-the-hill, I didn't say he has no value. I said the Lakers are not contenders with him.


not what you said at all - you said: 'hasnt been a top player in awhile'


so lets review: in 08-09 AND 09-10 he was all NBA 3rd team both seasons (and the second best player on 2 title winners) and last year he was 2nd team All NBA 

that's the last 3 seasons therefore you're completely biased and wrong - QED (have a nice night)


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



e-monk said:


> not what you said at all - you said: 'hasnt been a top player in awhile'
> 
> 
> so lets review: in 08-09 AND 09-10 he was all NBA 3rd team and last year he was 2nd team All NBA (to compare Chris Bosh hasnt been anything like those things since 2007)
> 
> therefore you're completely biased and wrong - QED (have a nice night)


He hasn't been a top player.

I don't give a **** about All-NBA. It's voted on by sports writers who don't know shit about the game.

Ben Wallace was All-NBA 2nd team when he went to Chicago. Doesn't change that he was over-the-hill and not a top player anymore. Same with Gasol. He's over-the-hill and not even a top 5 player at his position.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



Ron said:


> Have not heard about a fourth team yet and who that may be, but this is essentially the same deal as Thursday, which would lead one to believe that the speculation that Stern asked the teams to resubmit is likely true.


The fourth team is Boston, so that Demps can sell Johnson & Moore as "young talent" and ship Jermaine O'Neal's Re-animated Corpse and (allegedly) Pavlovic's Dog to LA to use as salary ballast in their pursuit of Howard. Houston might toss in one of their spare parts players to New Orleans just to satisfy the NBA's desire that the Hornets end up with enough assets to unload Scola's contract after the team is sold and Demps takes over as LA's assistant gm.


----------



## Wilmatic2

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



Seuss said:


> I think Kobe and CP will experience the same difficulties that Wade and LeBron experienced; mainly the fact that they both operate so successful with the ball, that when one of them does not have the ball, it will effective their overall offensive performance. The Lakers should of went all-out for Dwight Howard, not CP.


Chris and Kobe will have a much smoother transition than James and Wade did. For the simple fact that Chris' game is based solely on running the offense and distributing the ball. Occasionally, he'll penetrate the lane and go in for a layup, but what he'll do best is set up Kobe. We are talking about a man who had the lowest assist to turnover ratio in 08-09? If the Lakers end up keeping Bynum, he will be the one who will most benefit from CP3's lob passes, ala Tyson Chandler.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Adam said:


> He hasn't been a top player.
> 
> I don't give a **** about All-NBA. It's voted on by sports writers who don't know shit about the game.
> 
> Ben Wallace was All-NBA 2nd team when he went to Chicago. Doesn't change that he was over-the-hill and not a top player anymore. Same with Gasol. He's over-the-hill and not even a top 5 player at his position.


look - you're just some douche on the internet (all respect due and no offense intended) Darryl Morey (and pretty much the entire world of those employed to manager or otherwise discuss the NBA) disagrees with you and he actually gets paid for his opinion

you can look at the stats, you can look at the awards and accolades - what Im not in for is some yahoo spouting off ill informed opinions based on no nothing no how (what have you brought to the table? remember, attitude dont count) - so that's you, the yahoo - sorry but there it is

you've got nothing but an opinion backed not by stats (his PER was higher than its been in 5 years and his per 36 and per game stats last season were over his career averages) nor by accolades (2nd team All NBA, early season MVP candidate less than 12 months removed) but just an opinion

and you can keep it for what it's worth which is nothing

and there it is


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



e-monk said:


> look - you're just some douche on the internet (all respect due and no offense intended) Darryl Morey (and pretty much the entire world of those employed to manager or otherwise discuss the NBA) disagrees with you and he actually gets paid for his opinion
> 
> you can look at the stats, you can look at the awards and accolades - what Im not in for is some yahoo spouting off ill informed opinions based on no nothing no how (what have you brought to the table? remember, attitude dont count) - so that's you, the yahoo - sorry but there it is
> 
> you've got nothing but an opinion backed not by stats (his PER was higher than its been in 5 years and his per 36 and per game stats last season were over his career averages) nor by accolades (2nd team All NBA, early season MVP candidate less than 12 months removed) but just an opinion
> 
> and you can keep it for what it's worth which is nothing
> 
> and there it is


Because NBA GM's always hand out money to well-deserving players!

I'd love to see EHM respond to you using Daryl Morey as a source for your argument.

Kindly excuse me, but I will have to disagree with the esteemed Mr. Morey as he is a ****ing retard. Just like Paxson who gave Wallace that bloated contract.

But thank you for at least abandoning putting words in my mouth ("no value") and allowing me my own douchey little opinion.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Adam said:


> Of course I'm proud of how the Heat did. I expect them to go to many, many Finals over the next decade and they won't win every single one. Last season was a stepping stone. It's not like they're a team with an aging superstar whose window closed without them realizing it.


why are you proud of anything? what did you do? you attending practice? you paying bills? I dont get why people identify that way with teams - try approaching one of the players some time and see if you dont get some security guards palm in your face as you try to talk to him about WE won the title!


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



e-monk said:


> why are you proud of anything? what did you do? you attending practice? you paying bills? I dont get why people identify that way with teams - try approaching one of the players some time and see if you dont get some security guards palm in your face as you try to talk to him about WE won the title!


Obviously I did none of those things. I felt pride in the sense that I enjoyed their success. Substitute a different word if you want to argue semantics.

Pretty hilarious that you're accusing me of some vicarious living when I picked against my team the entire way and don't feel any disappointment according to the quote you responded to. Ya, I took enjoyment from the Heat's season. I'll dodge any security guards brah.


----------



## Wilmatic2

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

Some of you guys need to relax, its only a basketball forum.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



Adam said:


> Because NBA GM's always hand out money to well-deserving players!


a) I was mentioning a specific GM b) they all have tons more credentials than you (or me) do so dont kid yourself

I'd love to see EHM respond to you using Daryl Morey as a source for your argument.[/quote]

I'd rather listen to Michael Lewis because again EHM is just like you or me 'some douche' on the internet




> Kindly excuse me, but I will have to disagree with the esteemed Mr. Morey as he is a ****ing retard. Just like Paxson who gave Wallace that bloated contract.


in the particulars what you'd want to do is list why - paxson's actions aint why - and if you are comparing ben wallace to pau gasol you probably need to take a step back as aside from the sheer absurdity and incompatibility of comparing the two players games Wallace's PER actually went down the season before the signing while Pau's was his best in 5 seasons (so wrong in both the particulars and on general principles)



> But thank you for at least abandoning putting words in my mouth ("no value") and allowing me my own douchey little opinion.


touche' douche' but you are the one who said the guy who most people talk about being the 3rd or 4th big in the last several years (and All NBA 3rd and 2nd team 3 years running) hasnt been 'a top player in awhile' - I dont need to make that up - it's in the thread, you posted it - choke on it


----------



## e-monk

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

dear Toyota (and admin) **** you, **** your families and **** your company 

what ad executive anywhere thinks that annoying shit at the bottom of my screen is going to do anything but make me hate your ****ing message and be less inclined to want to do business with you? seriously


----------



## Adam

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

^PER doesn't measure defense smart ass. Gasol is as bad a defender as Wallace is an offensive player to skew his PER which would never measure a player or his skillset.

You brought in All-NBA second team to the discussion so live with it. 

Daryl Morey is a terrible GM.


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



e-monk said:


> touche' douche' but you are the one who said the guy who most people talk about being the 3rd or 4th big in the last several years (and All NBA 3rd and 2nd team 3 years running) hasnt been 'a top player in awhile' - I dont need to make that up - it's in the thread, you posted it - choke on it


Can you only argue with ad populum fallacies? Sports writer awards and peoples' opinions? Allen Iverson made plenty of peoples' lists and awards lists while being a black hole and a shitty player. None of the stuff you're citing is consequential.

I don't need anybody else to tell me that Pau Gasol was a bad player. I form my own opinion. All you can do is parrot what you read from people like me.

That's why last year I said Pau Gasol was over-the-hill and the Lakers wouldn't win the title. That's why the team I picked was 16-1 to win and I picked them while people like you who can only regurgitate crap chose the Lakers who were probably 4-1.


----------



## kbdullah

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

So the Rockets are giving up even more now? That's hardly fair to them. I don't understand what their obsession is with Pau Gasol. I know they are working on combining Pau w/ Nene, but is it worth throwing away every young piece you've acquired thus far as well as Kevin Martin and Luis Scola? My goodness.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

I'm sure Pau kills it in their metric ratings.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

Really nene and gasol will win you more games than scola and martin.


----------



## Diable

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

they are not going to get Nene or Gasol.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

I just saw posted somewhere that New Orleans is getting Odom, Scola, Martin, Devin Ebanks, Patrick Patterson, Courtney Lee and first round picks....WTF?!

Are they trading Wilt Chamberlain or something? Jesus Christ...


----------



## Jamel Irief

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



Diable said:


> they are not going to get Nene or Gasol.


Their plan is to sign nene once they get gasol. You seem confused, look at the post above mine.


----------



## Kidd

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

:laugh: rockets


----------



## kbdullah

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



Jamel Irief said:


> Really nene and gasol will win you more games than scola and martin.


Yeah but they aren't trading for Nene and Gasol. They are just trading for Gasol. And offering Martin, Scola, at least two of their young players, and their first round pick this year? The Rockets are aware they aren't the ones getting Paul in this deal, right?


----------



## E.H. Munro

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



kbdullah said:


> Yeah but they aren't trading for Nene and Gasol. They are just trading for Gasol. And offering Martin, Scola, at least two of their young players, and their first round pick this year? The Rockets are aware they aren't the ones getting Paul in this deal, right?


Daryl Morey has this superadvanced superduperscientific formula that proves that Gasol is the best player in the NBA by a wide margin. The magic formula proves that Gasol combines The Scalabrine Effect! with The Szczuperstar Szczoring Efficiency!.

About the only good that will come out of this is that the resulting cluster**** will end Morey's tenure in Houston. Hopefully he catches on as Kupcake's Assistant GM, because there would be nothing funnier than watching him screw up the Paul/Howard Lakers.


----------



## MemphisX

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

I have been telling Rocket fans...Morey is way overrated. He has gotten a pass because the nerdy ass non-athlete sports writers can identify with him.


----------



## thaKEAF

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



> ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
> CP3 Trade Latest: Sources say Lakers have pulled out three-team trade for Chris Paul


uhh


----------



## 29380

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



> Sources say Lakers will instead trade Lamar Odom to Dallas into Mavericks' new trade exception


http://twitter.com/#!/ESPNSteinLine


----------



## TheAnswer

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

The three-way deal to send Chris Paul to the Lakers has "fallen apart," league source involved in talks says.- Woj


----------



## thaKEAF

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

wooow


----------



## FSH

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

weird turn of events


----------



## FSH

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



> ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
> So to recap: Lakers take Odom out of three-team CP3 deal and deal him to Mavs into new DAL trade exception created in Tyson Chandler deal


wow


----------



## 29380

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



> Lakers pulled out of talks tonight, unable to meet new demands by Hornets/NBA.


http://twitter.com/#!/HowardBeckNYT


----------



## sonicFLAME6

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

WTF


----------



## FSH

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

They gonna go after Howard now?


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

I guess they are going after solely Howard.

What a ****ing mess this whole thing has been.


----------



## MemphisX

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

Dirk-Odom will be fun to watch...


----------



## Floods

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

Lol what the hell.

What are the Lakers getting from Dallas?


----------



## 29380

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



> Lakers and Hornets won't pursue a direct deal for Chris Paul either, source says. "L.A. can't give them what they need," source says.


http://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA


----------



## FSH

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

Lakers got to have something up their shelve that is big because why else would you trade a important part of your team to the team that just kicked your ass in the playoffs


----------



## FSH

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



Floods said:


> Lol what the hell.
> 
> What are the Lakers getting from Dallas?


Trade Exception from Chandler deal


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Reports to Hornets, Trade Talks Back On Again*



e-monk said:


> a) I was mentioning a specific GM b) they all have tons more credentials than you (or me) do so dont kid yourself


Morey's credentials include The Scalabrine Effect! Wally Szczerbiak Szczuperstar the unstoppable offensive force and trading Rudy Gay for Shane ****ing Battier. If he died in a fiery car crash tomorrow I would pop a champagne bottle in celebration. The only difference between Morey & Billy King is that Morey wears a pocket protector.


----------



## Floods

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

They're blowing up the Paul deal for a trade exception? That's priceless.


----------



## Cris

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



> @ESPNLandOLakers: LAL must have the dominoes lined up on something, or you don't hand Odom to a rival. BK


...

Lakers are getting 8.9 million in a trade exception and they have 5 million for the Sasha trade.


----------



## FSH

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



Floods said:


> They're blowing up the Paul deal for a trade exception? That's priceless.


there is no way that is all the Lakers plan on doing


----------



## FSH

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

Exactly Lakers got something big coming


----------



## TheAnswer

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

Something BIG better go down, not just D12.


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

GAME OVER


----------



## FSH

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



TheAnswer said:


> Something BIG better go down, not just D12.


how the hell does it get bigger then getting D12?


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

To be honest if they get Dwight, it's a much better team


----------



## TheAnswer

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



FSH said:


> how the hell does it get bigger then getting D12?


More player(s) along with him.


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

Mitch better be sure he is getting Howard, dropping LO on your rival is one hell of a gamble.


----------



## FSH

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

This is crazy now the Lakers can get Howard and keep Gasol


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

You sure about that?

The TPE is only 8.9, they would have to send back another player correct.


----------



## Cris

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



> Sources say Lakers will receive unspecified draft considerations from Dallas for the rights to Odom, who slots in Mavs' new trade exception


...


----------



## FSH

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



> ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
> Lakers have clearly made decision to focus on trying to acquire Dwight Howard. Lining up rest of their assets to duel New Jersey for DH12


looks like they are going after Dwight


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

Mitch is playing a risky game........


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

Lakers can still trade Pau to Houston with the Rockets sending some pieces to the Magic to sweeten the pot.


----------



## Floods

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



Game3525 said:


> You sure about that?
> 
> The TPE is only 8.9, they would have to send back another player correct.


They already have a 5 million exception from Vujacic. So now it's like $14.

They could take Howard and Turkoglu and send back Bynum and like Walton or something. Financially that would work.


----------



## FSH

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> Lakers can still trade Pau to Houston with the Rockets sending some pieces to the Magic to sweeten the pot.


Could happen


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



Floods said:


> They already have a 5 million exception from Vujacic. So now it's like $14.
> 
> They could take Howard and Turkoglu and send back Bynum and like Walton or something. Financially that would work.


Can you combine exceptions? I thought you couldn't. I was thinking Jameer Nelson.


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

No, they can only be used separately.


----------



## Floods

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> Can you combine exceptions? I thought you couldn't. I was thinking Jameer Nelson.


I honestly don't know. :laugh:


----------



## 29380

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

I see what Mark Cuban is doing block a trade that would help the Lakers get both CP3 and Dwight but helping the Lakers trade for just Dwight, he wants a shot at Deron in free agency.


----------



## kbdullah

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

Don't know how I feel about Mavericks trading for Odom if it makes the Lakers more likely to nab Dwight. In a vacuum, Odom for a trade exception and unknown draft pick(s) seems like a win, but we'll see. I guess Marion comes off the bench now and we have a potential frontcourt of Odom Dirk Haywood and Marion and possibly Dalembert off the bench...that could be gravy.


----------



## Game3525

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



Knicks4life said:


> I see what Mark Cuban is doing block a trade that would help the Lakers get both CP3 and Dwight but helping the Lakers trade for just Dwight, he wants a shot at Deron in free agency.


Yup.


----------



## FSH

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



> ESPNChrisPalmer chris palmer
> Lakers are just determined to get rid of Lamar Odom.


TPE isnt enough to take Hedo contract..So maybe the Lakers dont have anything up their shelve


----------



## BigWill33176

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



kbdullah said:


> Don't know how I feel about Mavericks trading for Odom if it makes the Lakers more likely to nab Dwight. In a vacuum, Odom for a trade exception and unknown draft pick(s) seems like a win, but we'll see. I guess Marion comes off the bench now and we have a potential frontcourt of Odom Dirk Haywood and Marion and possibly Dalembert off the bench...that could be gravy.



Its game theory. If everyone agreed not to take Lamar off the Laker's hands to prevent them from getting Dwight is one thing, but every GM knows that someone out there was going to take a free LO so they think "why not me?"


----------



## HB

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

Lol going to really suck for both Cuban and the Lakers if Dwight goes to the Nets. Next couple of days will be interesting.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

I'm thinking something like this:

Lakers trade Pau, Bynum, draft pick from Dallas. 
Lakers obtain: Howard, Nelson (trade X) Martin, Scola 

Orlando trades: Howard, Nelson 
Orlando obtains: Bynum, Dragic, Williams (or whoever) Draft Pick from Houston/Dallas 

Houston trades: Scola, Martin, Dragic, Williams, Draft Pick 
Houston obtains: Pau


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



HB said:


> Lol going to really suck for both Cuban and the Lakers if Dwight goes to the Nets. Next couple of days will be interesting.


Both Nets and Lakers have shit to offer imo...Bynum is injury prone and Lopez is the softest Center in the NBA


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

Ring night is gong to be quite awkward for LO though.


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

Trading Odom to a rival is dumb as heck though.


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



FSH said:


> Both Nets and Lakers have shit to offer imo...Bynum is injury prone and Lopez is the softest Center in the NBA


Multiple team trade....King's specialty


----------



## ChosenFEW

*Re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*

so, the lakers are really about to go all-in on dwight, no?


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



FSH said:


> Both Nets and Lakers have shit to offer imo...Bynum is injury prone and Lopez is the softest Center in the NBA


Yeah, but this is the Magic we're talking about.


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl, NO to look elsewhere*



> Sources close to the situation tell ESPN that Clippers have emerged as "early frontrunner" to acquire CP3 now that Lakers out of running


Marc Stein


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



BigWill33176 said:


> Its game theory. If everyone agreed not to take Lamar off the Laker's hands to prevent them from getting Dwight is one thing, but every GM knows that someone out there was going to take a free LO so they think "why not me?"


The more I think about it, the more I don't care if the Lakers get Dwight b/c of it. I believe your first priority is to improve your own team. Without Tyson, we were about to become irrelevant, and adding Lamar for his trade exception at least maintains relevancy. 

With or without this trade, the Lakers were going to get either Paul or Dwight, they'd already proven that. And I'd rather have the Lakers be the 1-seed and the Mavericks be the 2-seed than the Lakers be the 2-seed and the Mavericks the 7-seed. And there's always the possibility that Howard still goes to the Nets or the Dwight/Kobe experiment causes the Lakers to lack the depth needed to win the West.


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl, NO to look elsewhere*

The Clippers can pony up Eric Gordon, and could swap Kaman for Okafor. Hornets shave two years off that contract.

That by itself is better than the vetoed package.


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl, NO to look elsewhere*



Knicks4life said:


> Marc Stein


He's going to LA after all...Archivist and his crew shouldn't feel too bad lol


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl, NO to look elsewhere*



> Mike_Bresnahan Mike Bresnahan
> Lakers will get the Mavs' first-round pick in 2012, maybe a second-rounder as well.


More ammo for Dwight trade


----------



## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl, NO to look elsewhere*

I still wouldn't want Bynum. Guy only plays half a season and could leave in two years. I don't like Lopez, but I would trade Dwight to the Clippers first before I ever traded for Bynum. If Bynum could stay healthy, then it would be a no-brainer.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl, NO to look elsewhere*

They were saying LO trade might be a salary dump.

I guess Buess would rather stick it to Dan Gilbert and not pay the luxury tax.


----------



## roux

*Re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



Wilt_The_Stilt said:


> I'm thinking something like this:
> 
> Lakers trade Pau, Bynum, draft pick from Dallas.
> Lakers obtain: Howard, Nelson (trade X) Martin, Scola
> 
> Orlando trades: Howard, Nelson
> Orlando obtains: Bynum, Dragic, Williams (or whoever) Draft Pick from Houston/Dallas
> 
> Houston trades: Scola, Martin, Dragic, Williams, Draft Pick
> Houston obtains: Pau


gee... think the lakers are getting enough in this deal?


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



kbdullah said:


> The more I think about it, the more I don't care if the Lakers get Dwight b/c of it. I believe your first priority is to improve your own team. Without Tyson, we were about to become irrelevant, and adding Lamar for his trade exception at least maintains relevancy.
> 
> With or without this trade, the Lakers were going to get either Paul or Dwight, they'd already proven that. And I'd rather have the Lakers be the 1-seed and the Mavericks be the 2-seed than the Lakers be the 2-seed and the Mavericks the 7-seed. And there's always the possibility that Howard still goes to the Nets or the Dwight/Kobe experiment causes the Lakers to lack the depth needed to win the West.


You are adding Lamar, Vince and Dalembert. Mavs have had an excellent off season.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



HB said:


> You are adding Lamar and Dalembert. Mavs have had an excellent off season.


Fixed.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

*Re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



roux2dope said:


> gee... think the lakers are getting enough in this deal?


We know Houston would be down for it. The Magic would probably insist on Turkoglu going out though. Maybe we should just send Pau to Houston for some version of that package now that Odom is gone.


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl, NO to look elsewhere*

RT @johnhollinger: Any exception created by dealing Odom isn't big enough for Hedo. Not not seeing LA's endgame, nor why Dallas would help.


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl, NO to look elsewhere*

Maybe it's for J-Rich. Somebody told Otis he ****ed up again.


----------



## Cris

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl, NO to look elsewhere*



> The Hornets had delivered a reconstructed framework of the three-team blockbuster trade that would have sent Paul to the Lakers into the NBA office for approval Saturday, but the *NBA still refused to approve it.*
> 
> There was a framework discussed where New Orleans would send Paul to the Lakers, and possibly two Hornets free agents – center Jason Smith and Marcus Banks – would be sent to the Lakers in sign-and-trade agreements.
> http://www.iamagm.com/news/2011/12/....dallas?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


...


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl, NO to look elsewhere*

When did the NBA turn into Chris Hanson?

Stern needs to go.


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl, NO to look elsewhere*

I hope players gang up more than ever before after this fiasco.


----------



## Kneejoh

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl, NO to look elsewhere*

Are the Lakers able to combine this trade exception with the 5.4 mil Vujacic one? If yes, then shouldn't that be just about 28 mil and enough to cover Dwight and Hedo? Anyone know for sure?


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl, NO to look elsewhere*

The bastard nixed it again!!! **** David Stern!!


----------



## Kneejoh

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl, NO to look elsewhere*

Also somebody please tell me the Lakers aren't looking at trading both Pau and Bynum for Dwight. I mean that's just ludicrous isn't it.


----------



## Cris

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl, NO to look elsewhere*



thug_immortal8 said:


> Also somebody please tell me the Lakers aren't looking at trading both Pau and Bynum for Dwight. I mean that's just ludicrous isn't it.


Apparently it's impossible to trade for Chris Paul, so probably not.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: Sources Say CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl*



HB said:


> You are adding Lamar, Vince and Dalembert. Mavs have had an excellent off season.


Is Vince even worth adding after the Lamar trade? We've already got Rudy, Terry, Jones, Beaubois, and maybe Brewer vying for SG minutes. Then you've got Odom, Marion, and Wright (and maybe Brewer again) at forward. I'm not going to say no to Vince if he wants to sign for the min or close to the min, but now we're entering the realm of marginal returns.

Still waiting on Dalembert. If we do add him, color me excited.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl, NO to look elsewhere*



> *Ken Berger* _@KBergCBS_
> Update on CP3 debacle: Hornets' coaches, front office in "collective shock," source says. #NBA bit.ly/uIc7DU


Stern's judgment is in question at this point.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl, NO to look elsewhere*

Scathing article on Stern:

*Lakers end Paul trade talks, ship Odom to Mavs*


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl, NO to look elsewhere*

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Lakers had offered Lamar Odom to teams with salary cap space, one GM says. "He wanted out and they really wanted to reduce the tax bill."

Lamar is being a pussy, but overall this is Stern's fault. He basically ****ed the chemistry of three teams.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*

Clippers and Warriors now in play for the CP3 sweepstakes:

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/...pull-trade-talks-chris-paul-according-sources



> The shellshocked Hornets will try to recover swiftly from the collapsed trade and remain determined to trade Paul as soon as possible. Sources told ESPN.com the Los Angeles Clippers have emerged as the "early front-runner" to land Paul.
> 
> The Golden State Warriors are also expected to stay in the bidding, with the Warriors' Stephen Curry and the Clippers' Eric Gordon known to be the two players coveted most by the Hornets' basketball people throughout their aggressive search for a Paul deal.
> .
> .
> .
> The Clippers, at least, present a plausible trade partner for Paul, given all the young assets possessed by the Lakers' Staples Center co-tenants. Sources say that Al-Farouq Aminu, Eric Bledsoe and the expiring contract of Chris Kaman are among the pieces that have been made available to New Orleans this week, but it's believed the Clippers can clinch a trade for Paul if they include either prized guard Eric Gordon or Minnesota's unprotected 2012 first-round pick in the deal.
> 
> The Clippers, to date, have been unwilling to offer either Gordon or the Minnesota pick without an assurance from Paul that he's willing to stay to with Blake Griffin's team beyond this season.


----------



## Pay Ton

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*

If there was any doubt before, the NBA is the worst run league of the four major sports.

Thanks, Stern.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*



Pay Ton said:


> If there was any doubt before, the NBA is the worst run league of the four major sports.
> 
> Thanks, Stern.


He is trying to upstage the NHL of the previous decade. And doing a damn good job of it. :laugh:


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*

K so....I'm now officially an NBA fan, but I don't really care if the Lakers don't win the title. This league is bullshit, and it almost invalidates every Lakers title I've experienced since being a fan. Maybe they just wanted us to win?

I'll stick to being a Vikings fan, and hoping my 2-10 club grabs Blackmon in the draft. At least the NFL is a real league.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*



Damian Necronamous said:


> K so....I'm now officially an NBA fan, but I don't really care if the Lakers don't win the title. This league is bullshit, and it almost invalidates every Lakers title I've experienced since being a fan. Maybe they just wanted us to win?
> 
> I'll stick to being a Vikings fan, and hoping my 2-10 club grabs Blackmon in the draft. At least the NFL is a real league.


:lol:

Interesting you should be a Vikings fan, they may very well end up in Los Angeles next year.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl, NO to look elsewhere*



Ron said:


> Scathing article on Stern:


That revised trade still left New Orleans the dumping ground of all the toxic contracts involved, thus really cutting into the re-sale value. I'm not sure why any of them thought the NBA would change its mind with that.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*



Ron said:


> :lol:
> 
> Interesting you should be a Vikings fan, they may very well end up in Los Angeles next year.


Yeah for sure. And I'll continue to love em to death.

Know what I mean, though? It now feels like I'm cheering for Stone Cold Steve Austin, rather than cheering for a legitimate franchise. That has to make sense...


----------



## Kneejoh

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*

Posted this in the Lakers forum but bigger audience so here:

The main problem I'm seeing right now is that we as fans have no clue who is running the league and who has the power anymore. Is it the GM's, the owners, the player, the agents, the media or the commissioner? It seems like everybody has some sort of influence and wants power to make the moves but it leaves the league without a sense of who is supposed to actually have any power. Really confusing times.


----------



## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*

Not really. The NBA has a culture clash going on right now. Young immature dickheads, new owners who are immature dickheads. Add it up and you get a powder keg. However, this wouldn't be a problem if more of the stars cared about finishing what they started like Dirk Nowitzki. 

To me, the forcing trades stuff, I will never side with the players on that. You could have not signed that contract (especially non-rookie deal players), but you chose security, which is cool. But kvetching for trades while still under contract, nope, I don't like it and never will like it.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*



HKF said:


> Not really. The NBA has a culture clash going on right now. Young immature dickheads, new owners who are immature dickheads. Add it up and you get a powder keg. However, this wouldn't be a problem if more of the stars cared about finishing what they started like Dirk Nowitzki.
> 
> To me, the forcing trades stuff, I will never side with the players on that. You could have not signed that contract (especially non-rookie deal players), but you chose security, which is cool. But kvetching for trades while still under contract, nope, I don't like it and never will like it.


Totally agree with that last part.

What I don't agree with is what's going on in NO. The NBA is blatantly acting biased against the Lakers. They were giving away more than their fair share in this deal, and the Hornets were getting more than a fair share in return for Paul. So what's the deal? Clearly it's that Stern doesn't want Paul in a Lakers uniform.

Will they now approve a trade of Paul to LAC for Aminu, the injured Bledsoe, Kaman's expiring and Minnesota's first round pick? That's just a terrible haul in comparison to this HOU/LAL trade.

From now on, whatever the case, the NBA (not the New Orleans Hornets) have hand-picked where Chris Paul will end up. I only hope he becomes a FA next year, signs elsewhere and sues the shit out of the NBA. He got royally screwed here.


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*



Damian Necronamous said:


> Will they now approve a trade of Paul to LAC for Aminu, the injured Bledsoe, Kaman's expiring and Minnesota's first round pick? That's just a terrible haul in comparison to this HOU/LAL trade.


Well, yeah. It's most likely going to take Eric Gordon to get this done. Which I'd be fine with if I'm the Clippers.

Clippers get:
Chris Paul
Emeka Okafor

Hornets get:
Eric Gordon
Chris Kaman
Al-Farouq Aminu

Gordon's a good player, the Kaman/Okafor swap effectively knocks two years off of Okafor's contract, and Aminu's Aminu. I think that's a pretty good haul, they get Eric Gordon and save quite a bit of money in the short term, with Kaman expiring this summer on top of it. The Clippers satisfy New Orleans and the NBA with a decent package, and hold on to assets like Bledsoe, who you won't need, Mo Williams' contract, and MIN's draft pick to do something else with.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*



Damian Necronamous said:


> Will they now approve a trade of Paul to LAC for Aminu, the injured Bledsoe, Kaman's expiring and Minnesota's first round pick? That's just a terrible haul in comparison to this HOU/LAL trade


If that trade goes through, the Hornets will have two of these players: Anthony Davis, Sullenger, Lamb, Austin Rivers, Harrison Barnes, and the Amare clone from Uconn! I'd rather have these two to start my franchise again than Odom, Scola, and Martin


----------



## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*

The Hornets are a special situation and I still trying to figure out why Lakers fans don't get this. They are co-owned by all the owners. Stop saying the league is out to get you. It's just not true. They haven't stopped any other lopsided trade the franchise has ever made. They only did it when the team doing the trade was collectively owned by all the owners.

One time does not a trend make, no matter how much these talking heads and reporters bitch about it.


----------



## Tooeasy

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*



HKF said:


> The Hornets are a special situation and I still trying to figure out why Lakers fans don't get this. They are co-owned by all the owners. Stop saying the league is out to get you. It's just not true. They haven't stopped any other lopsided trade the franchise has ever made. They only did it when the team doing the trade was collectively owned by all the owners.
> 
> One time does not a trend make, no matter how much these talking heads and reporters bitch about it.


ive been away from the computer today so i dunno what the newest issue is with this trade, but I do know that cuban shit his drawers last season when the Hornets were attempting to sign corey brewer after his buyout. Obviously his impact is minimal but the fact is owners have obviously been voicing their opinion that the Hornets should be at the bottom of the totem pole in terms of relevance because their tab will be picked up by the conglomerate of owners, and that has absolutely influenced the way things have been handled. Their was also disagreement involving the thornton/landry trade based on taking on a very minimal amount of salary.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*



Floods said:


> Well, yeah. It's most likely going to take Eric Gordon to get this done. Which I'd be fine with if I'm the Clippers.
> 
> Clippers get:
> Chris Paul
> Emeka Okafor
> 
> Hornets get:
> Eric Gordon
> Chris Kaman
> Al-Farouq Aminu
> 
> Gordon's a good player, the Kaman/Okafor swap effectively knocks two years off of Okafor's contract, and Aminu's Aminu. I think that's a pretty good haul, they get Eric Gordon and save quite a bit of money in the short term, with Kaman expiring this summer on top of it. The Clippers satisfy New Orleans and the NBA with a decent package, and hold on to assets like Bledsoe, who you won't need, Mo Williams' contract, and MIN's draft pick to do something else with.


Honestly, I would not want Eric Gordon because I would not want to pay him. I am not sure why people still get all freaking goofy about young players putting up numbers on bad teams. What makes Eric Gordon better than Ben Gordon? Replace the name Eric Gordon with Marcus Thornton and see if you think this haul is great. Thornton put up almost the same numbers in Sacramento but when he was on a real team that was not stupid enough to let him jack shots like he was a true #1 option, his numbers were not so good.

If I am NO, I am happy with that Minny pick and getting rid of the back end of Okafor's deal.

Chris Kaman
Ryan Gomes
Randy Foye
Mo Williams - you got to be at the league Minimum
Aminu
Minny's 2012 1st
Clipper 2012 1st
Clipper 2014 1st in anticipation of Paul bolting and the Clippers being the Clippers.

for 

CP3
Okafor
Ariza

Welcome the new owner to a perfectly positioned franchise.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*



HKF said:


> The Hornets are a special situation and I still trying to figure out why Lakers fans don't get this. They are co-owned by all the owners. Stop saying the league is out to get you. It's just not true. They haven't stopped any other lopsided trade the franchise has ever made. They only did it when the team doing the trade was collectively owned by all the owners.
> 
> One time does not a trend make, no matter how much these talking heads and reporters bitch about it.


Excellent post. I just hope the nba learns from this and never buys a team again. And if they have to they better contract them in the summer if they can't find a buyer.


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*

The rich also cry


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*



MemphisX said:


> Honestly, I would not want Eric Gordon because I would not want to pay him. I am not sure why people still get all freaking goofy about young players putting up numbers on bad teams. What makes Eric Gordon better than Ben Gordon? Replace the name Eric Gordon with Marcus Thornton and see if you think this haul is great. Thornton put up almost the same numbers in Sacramento but when he was on a real team that was not stupid enough to let him jack shots like he was a true #1 option, his numbers were not so good.
> 
> If I am NO, I am happy with that Minny pick and getting rid of the back end of Okafor's deal.
> 
> Chris Kaman
> Ryan Gomes
> Randy Foye
> Mo Williams - you got to be at the league Minimum
> Aminu
> Minny's 2012 1st
> Clipper 2012 1st
> Clipper 2014 1st in anticipation of Paul bolting and the Clippers being the Clippers.
> 
> for
> 
> CP3
> Okafor
> Ariza
> 
> Welcome the new owner to a perfectly positioned franchise.


Actually Monte's issue with Marcus was always defense, and he sat him on the bench constantly claiming that he did not 'get it' on defense. On offense he pretty much proved that he had the capability to do exactly what he has done in Sacramento. He did make a ton of mistakes on defense too. Of course the guys who Monte played were just as bad defensively (i.e Matador Bellinelli) and could not score the ball with a gun to their heads.


----------



## OneBadLT123

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*



> *Chris Broussard* _@Chris_Broussard_
> As reported Fri, union told Stern it will pursue litigation if no suitable CP trade made by Monday. Claim could be collusion, sources say


Wow. This is going to get nasty.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*

The Celtics are also in play.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports....lamar-odom-to-dallas-dwight-howard-move-next/


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*

If Stern would not approve this deal I don't see how anyone else can put together a suitable package unless it includes either Steph Curry or Eric Gordon. This deal was far from ideal, but it had real value for the Hornets. Boston is offering crap unless they think they can get Houston to take it up the ass for Rondo like they want to for Gasol.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*






Mitch must have felt something like this....


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*



Diable said:


> If Stern would not approve this deal I don't see how anyone else can put together a suitable package unless it includes either Steph Curry or Eric Gordon. This deal was far from ideal, but it had real value for the Hornets. Boston is offering crap unless they think they can get Houston to take it up the ass for Rondo like they want to for Gasol.


If I were them, I'd rather have the Wolves pick than Gordon.


----------



## Luke

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*

We better get Dwight.

Sad to see Lamar go after arguably his best season, this whole situation is such a mess.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*

The Wolves pick could be more enticing to a prospective earner--plus if they don't get Gordon, and take the pick instead, they'll be really awful this year, so they might be able to have two top 5 picks in the best draft in the last few years. THAT is how you rebuild. Add the Clippers own draft pick from this year, which if they get Paul Okafor, and Keep Gordon will probably be a lower mid first round pick--that's a nice nice haul. A lot better than aquiring a bunch of salary in Scola and Odom and competing to be knocked out in the first round of the playoffs.

The holdup is obviously whether CP3 is so pissed at this point he would refuse to resign with any team but the Lakers.

Would be dumb on his part because that Clippers team would be nasty with him, Griffin, and Gordon as the nucleus. Plus Okafor and Jordan at the Center spot. That would be better than the Lakers with Howard and Kobe.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*



MemphisX said:


> Honestly, I would not want Eric Gordon because I would not want to pay him. I am not sure why people still get all freaking goofy about young players putting up numbers on bad teams. What makes Eric Gordon better than Ben Gordon? Replace the name Eric Gordon with Marcus Thornton and see if you think this haul is great. Thornton put up almost the same numbers in Sacramento but when he was on a real team that was not stupid enough to let him jack shots like he was a true #1 option, his numbers were not so good.


Eric Gordon not some one dimensional gunner! This kid can play a variety of ways! If it wasn't for that horrible start we could have made the playoffs and when the clippers were at there best is when Gordon was leading the way as there leading scorer! He can shoot the three, excellent slasher and been improving his ball handling and playmaking skills every season plus he's a good defender for his size...he's on the cusp of being a star!


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*



MemphisX said:


> Honestly, I would not want Eric Gordon because I would not want to pay him. I am not sure why people still get all freaking goofy about young players putting up numbers on bad teams. What makes Eric Gordon better than Ben Gordon? Replace the name Eric Gordon with Marcus Thornton and see if you think this haul is great. Thornton put up almost the same numbers in Sacramento but when he was on a real team that was not stupid enough to let him jack shots like he was a true #1 option, his numbers were not so good.


Look at the garbage they were ready to accept in the vetoed trade. The dead weight contracts of three peaked players, and the NY first-rounder (most likely in the mid-20s). And Dragic. Did I miss anyone? Eric Gordon plus 2 years off Okafor's deal is already better than that.

Gordon isn't the second coming, but he's pretty solid. He actually plays defense, unless Marcus Thornton. He's probably the best player they have a shot at landing in a Paul trade. And he's only 22. I'll take my chances if I'm New Orleans.

The Hornets may very well prefer that Minnesota pick to Gordon, but the Clippers have leverage here. The Celtics can pony up Rondo, but they by themselves can't offer the Hornets the salary relief the Clippers can. Unless they brought in a third team, but the Celtics' assets are pretty limited, I don't see how they pull that off. Golden State? Can't touch the Clippers here unless they cough up Curry. Indiana can offer a ton of salary relief but they're pretty lacking on the talent front. 

The Clippers have the best combination of talent and salary relief they can ship to New Orleans, out of the teams mentioned in the Paul talks (pretty sure I got them all). For that reason they can and should make that pick off-limits to the Hornets. Either use it yourself and bring a top pick from a great draft into a team with Chris Paul or Blake Griffin, or trade it for something else later on.


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*



futuristxen said:


> Add the Clippers own draft pick from this year


Belongs to the Celtics.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*

Problem with Gordon is not just as a player but NO will have to pay him a lot after this season and that also defeats the purpose. 

Better off with Minnesota pick that will be top 4 most likely and their own. Rebuild with young players on rookie deals and maintain a lot of cap flex.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Mitch must have felt something like this....





> *ramonashelburne* _@ramonashelburne_
> Caught Lakers GM Mitch Kupchak looking down on media day from his upstairs office. I motion him down. He mouths the words: "No way"
> Retweeted by Ken Berger


:lol:

That must be an absolute zoo. Wish it was on Fox Sports...I'd give good money to watch that.


----------



## jaw2929

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*

What a bizarre "off-season" this has been so far, eh?

Wouldn't be surprised to see CP3 go to the Clippers to be honest. Play there 1 year, and then go to a contender next year. If ONLY to get outta New Orleans.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*



jaw2929 said:


> What a bizarre "off-season" this has been so far, eh?
> 
> Wouldn't be surprised to see CP3 go to the Clippers to be honest. Play there 1 year, and then go to a contender next year. If ONLY to get outta New Orleans.


Trade won't happen if Paul doesn't sign an extension!


----------



## jaw2929

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*



NOFX22 said:


> Trade won't happen if Paul doesn't sign an extension!


Fair enough, only makes sense really.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*



MemphisX said:


> Honestly, I would not want Eric Gordon because I would not want to pay him. I am not sure why people still get all freaking goofy about young players putting up numbers on bad teams. What makes Eric Gordon better than Ben Gordon? Replace the name Eric Gordon with Marcus Thornton and see if you think this haul is great. Thornton put up almost the same numbers in Sacramento but when he was on a real team that was not stupid enough to let him jack shots like he was a true #1 option, his numbers were not so good.
> 
> If I am NO, I am happy with that Minny pick and getting rid of the back end of Okafor's deal.
> 
> Chris Kaman
> Ryan Gomes
> Randy Foye
> Mo Williams - you got to be at the league Minimum
> Aminu
> Minny's 2012 1st
> Clipper 2012 1st
> Clipper 2014 1st in anticipation of Paul bolting and the Clippers being the Clippers.
> 
> for
> 
> CP3
> Okafor
> Ariza
> 
> Welcome the new owner to a perfectly positioned franchise.


The Clippers owe a first to Boston, so they can't deal any of theirs to New Orleans.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*



MemphisX said:


> If I am NO, I am happy with that Minny pick and getting rid of the back end of Okafor's deal.
> 
> Chris Kaman
> Ryan Gomes
> Randy Foye
> Mo Williams - you got to be at the league Minimum
> Aminu
> Minny's 2012 1st
> Clipper 2012 1st
> Clipper 2014 1st in anticipation of Paul bolting and the Clippers being the Clippers.
> 
> for
> 
> CP3
> Okafor
> Ariza
> 
> Welcome the new owner to a perfectly positioned franchise.


lol. so your plan is to absolutely rape any fans you might have and commit to winning less than 30 games for the next 5 years in hopes that you can get high picks that you hope might turn into something? yeah, that totally sounds like perfect positioning.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*



rocketeer said:


> lol. so your plan is to absolutely rape any fans you might have and commit to winning less than 30 games for the next 5 years in hopes that you can get high picks that you hope might turn into something? yeah, that totally sounds like perfect positioning.


To be fair, that's the plan the Sonics/Thunder committed to in 2007, and it worked out pretty well. Key detail is that they already knew they were drafting Durant, but this draft is supposed to be loaded. Two top-ten picks this season, managed correctly, could turn the franchise back around in under a year.


----------



## LA68

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl, NO to look elsewhere*



E.H. Munro said:


> That revised trade still left New Orleans the dumping ground of all the toxic contracts involved, thus really cutting into the re-sale value. I'm not sure why any of them thought the NBA would change its mind with that.


I thought that was Charlotte with that great front line of Diop, Diaw and Thomas ?? aperbag:


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Laker Deal Has Fallen Apart; Clippers and Warriors Now In Play*



Bogg said:


> To be fair, that's the plan the Sonics/Thunder committed to in 2007, and it worked out pretty well. Key detail is that they already knew they were drafting Durant, but this draft is supposed to be loaded. Two top-ten picks this season, managed correctly, could turn the franchise back around in under a year.


yeah, it works out well when you can draft durant, westbrook, and harden back to back to back. which means it doesn't work out very often.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 Deal Has Fallen Apart; Lakers Withdrawl, NO to look elsewhere*



E.H. Munro said:


> That revised trade still left New Orleans the dumping ground of all the toxic contracts involved, thus really cutting into the re-sale value. I'm not sure why any of them thought the NBA would change its mind with that.


could point out a single toxic contract involved here? guys like odom, scola, and martin are worth what they are being paid.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*

Scola isn't worth 4/40, no. And Little K-Mart is one of the NBA's great empty numbers guys, and certainly ain't worth 2/25.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*



E.H. Munro said:


> Scola isn't worth 4/40, no. And Little K-Mart is one of the NBA's great empty numbers guys, and certainly ain't worth 2/25.


i'd rather have scola than david west and guess who just got 10 per?

martin is the best non superstar scorer in the league. what he brings to the table is easily worth 12 mil a season.


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*

Lakers thinking of getting rid of three guys that were integral to their last two championships and the way they are doing it too. Says a lot about the business. Funny how Shaq is the one pointing this out.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*



HB said:


> Lakers thinking of getting rid of three guys that were integral to their last two championships and the way they are doing it too. Says a lot about the business. Funny how Shaq is the one pointing this out.


Getting rid of?

Really?

You are implying the Lakers are releasing the players without compensation. If you are going to color your comments, you are going to have to bring a lot more to the table, HB.

Jesus H. Christ.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*



rocketeer said:


> i'd rather have scola than david west and guess who just got 10 per?


A better offensive player whose contract won't carry him into his performance implosion years. Unlike Scola's deal. And that's the problem. He's a 31 year old 6'8" PF with a four year high money deal. 



rocketeer said:


> martin is the best non superstar scorer in the league. what he brings to the table is easily worth 12 mil a season.


Like terrible fourth quarter play and 30 games a year lost to injury?


----------



## CavsNut96

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*

CP3 will leave I don't Know where he will go but I hope its in the East. to help block the Heat. at least thats what I want which won't Effect CP3


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*



Ron said:


> Getting rid of?
> 
> Really?
> 
> You are implying the Lakers are releasing the players without compensation. If you are going to color your comments, you are going to have to bring a lot more to the table, HB.
> 
> Jesus H. Christ.


Ummm....what? The Lakers just did release the first of these players without compensation...

LOL


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*

Oh my bad...'trading' them would be better. With pomp and pageantry too....LOL

Should I upload the Odom interview with Stephen A? He didn't sound too please about getting 'traded'

Couldn't even get a call from the team he won two titles for. You are right he wasn't 'released'...he was traded for an exception.


----------



## crise

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*

Just a quick question. Might be a stupid question but,

Is there any chance at all that the Knicks could sign CP3? Or signing him next July if CP3 doesn't agree to an extension with any teams this season?

They would officially be #1 imo then. CP3/Laundry back court, with Melo/Stat/Tyson front court, With Jeffreys and Douglas being 6/7th role? That's just deadly.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*



HB said:


> Oh my bad...'trading' them would be better. With pomp and pageantry too....LOL
> 
> Should I upload the Odom interview with Stephen A? He didn't sound too please about getting 'traded'
> 
> Couldn't even get a call from the team he won two titles for. You are right he wasn't 'released'...he was traded for an exception.


No thanks, I heard it three days ago.

The exception is for $8.9 million...that should land us a pretty good player to take his spot, no?


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*

Of course the team will do anything to get better....point is there's not much loyalty to players that helped you win two championships recently.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*



HB said:


> Of course the team will do anything to get better....point is there's not much loyalty to players that helped you win two championships recently.


Loyalty my ass. Wasn't it you (not just you) who said the Lakers are getting too old, their window is closing, blah blah blah...

Now with the Lakers attempting to get younger, you are talking loyalty nonsense. Once a hata, always a hata...try to put your emotions in check, it will enhance your credibility.

Maybe.


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*

In all seriousness, people need to STFU about loyalty. This is a business and management should always make moves that make the team better or position the team better for the future. We're trying to win games here, not make friends.

Still don't understand why we just gave Odom away after he asked out, though. Why not hang onto him and find the best deal out there? There's no way this was it...there's just NO way...


----------



## crise

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*

Just a quick question. Might be a stupid question but,

Is there any chance at all that the Knicks could sign CP3? Or signing him next July if CP3 doesn't agree to an extension with any teams this season?

They would officially be #1 imo then. CP3/Laundry back court, with Melo/Stat/Tyson front court, With Jeffreys and Douglas being 6/7th role? That's just deadly.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*

If he can't land with the Los Angeles Lakers or New York Knicks, Chris Paul's preference is to be traded by the league-owned New Orleans Hornets to the Los Angeles Clippers to play alongside Blake Griffin, according to sources close to the situation.

The Clippers know that Paul is unlikely to sign an extension with any team that trades for him because the rules in place in the NBA's new labor agreement make it more advantageous for top stars to play the season out and then sign a longer deal in free agency, even if they're staying with the same team. But sources told ESPN.com that the Clippers merely want Paul to pick up the 2012-13 option in his contract at the time of the trade -- thus delaying his free agency by one year -- if they're going to give up one of their two most prized trade assets for Paul: Eric Gordon or Minnesota's unprotected No. 1 pick in 2012.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*



> .“@Chris_Broussard: Hornets asking for E Gordon, Kaman, Bledsoe, Aminu and 2 1st round picks, sources say”


..


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*



> .“@WojYahooNBA: Clippers management has assured Eric Gordon that he will not be included in any trade package for Chris Paul, league source tells Y!”


...


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> .“@Chris_Broussard: Hornets asking for E Gordon, Kaman, Bledsoe, Aminu and 2 1st round picks, sources say”


That's ****ing nuts. No way should the Clips part with Gordon. That's a deal breaker.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*

yea Kaman, Aminu, Bledsoe, and Minnys pick should suffice


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*



> *Chris Broussard* _@Chris_Broussard_
> LAC willing to add Gordon 2 deal if Paul commits 2 "opt-in" to the final year of his deal, which would assure LAC of having him next 2 yrs


This would be an awful mistake...I wouldn't include Gordon at all, even if Paul were to sign an extension. It's a deal breaker.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*

I would.

Gordon is a good player, but Chris Paul is the best PG in the league.


----------



## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*

I would do it, if I were the Clippers. Paul, Caron Butler and Blake Griffin is great nucleus for improvement. That's a playoff team.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*

but will be title contenders with Gordon and Paul! Thats the difference...


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*

For a two-year rental? No way.


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*

That looks like the price of admission to me. I would guess that it is the best option available for CP as well. Jordan and Griffin are both the types of players who would benefit from having him run the show. You'd want more shooting, but you can find a shooter easier than you can find the rest of the puzzle.

IMO whoever gets Paul and gives him a chance to win is going to have a great opportunity to extend him.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*



NOFX22 said:


> but will be title contenders with Gordon and Paul! Thats the difference...


The Hornets aren't going to deal with unless you give up Gordon.

The deal is utter garbage if they don't at least snag Gordon out of this.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*



Game3525 said:


> I would.
> 
> Gordon is a good player, but Chris Paul is the best PG in the league.


Gordon is not just a good player, he is a great scorer and has tremendous upside. Certainly not for a two-year rental, that is just plain stupid.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*



Game3525 said:


> The Hornets aren't going to deal with unless you give up Gordon.
> 
> The deal is utter garbage if they don't at least snag Gordon out of this.


What are you talking about? They are getting Minny's first round unprotected pick!


----------



## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*



HKF said:


> I would do it, if I were the Clippers. Paul, Caron Butler and Blake Griffin is great nucleus for improvement. That's a playoff team.





NOFX22 said:


> but will be title contenders with Gordon and Paul! Thats the difference...


You're not even a playoff team without doing the deal. So if the deal isn't on without Gordon, then you do include Gordon to do the deal.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*

even without Gordon thats the best package the Hornets are going to get...I'd say wait it out...


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*



HKF said:


> You're not even a playoff team without doing the deal. So if the deal isn't on without Gordon, then you do include Gordon to do the deal.


No you don't, not for a two-year rental. That is just plain stupid. Then when he walks, so does Blake. This is a huge gamble if Clips do this deal, and I see oblivion for Clipperland in two years if they do it.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*



HKF said:


> You're not even a playoff team without doing the deal. So if the deal isn't on without Gordon, then you do include Gordon to do the deal.


with most of the Nuggets players in China, and Hornets losing Paul...yes we are a playoff team without Paul...


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*



Ron said:


> That's ****ing nuts. No way should the Clips part with Gordon. That's a deal breaker.


Are you serious? That deal is a steal for the Clips. Who cares about Eric Gordon? He plays the most disposable position in the league.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*



Adam said:


> Are you serious? That deal is a steal for the Clips. Who cares about Eric Gordon? He plays the most disposable position in the league.


Being from Miami, I guess you don't get to see this kid play. I do, and you should defer to someone who knows what the **** he is talking about...but I won't expect that from you.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*

yea Eric Gordon on the verge of becoming a SG in the League...i wont give him up


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*



Ron said:


> Being from Miami, I guess you don't get to see this kid play. I do, and you should defer to someone who knows what the **** he is talking about...but I won't expect that from you.


The Clippers have been one of my League Pass teams for the past two years and I try to catch as many games as I can because I follow DeAndre. You haven't watched more Clippers games than me. And you're wrong.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*



Adam said:


> The Clippers have been one of my League Pass teams for the past two years and I try to catch as many games as I can because I follow DeAndre. You haven't watched more Clippers games than me. And you're wrong.


Yup. Just as I expected.

You sure don't disappoint, Adam.


----------



## Laker Freak

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*



NOFX22 said:


> yea Eric Gordon on the verge of becoming a SG in the League...i wont give him up


I don't understand why the Hornets management even wants Gordon. He will be a restricted free agent in 7 months and there is no way Stern and his posse will match the max contract offer he will surely receive


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*



Ron said:


> Yup. Just as I expected.
> 
> You sure don't disappoint, Adam.


You honestly think that I should defer to you about basketball? You really think you watch more basketball than me? You could, it's possible, but I watch an unhealthy amount. Not sure I would want to meet the person who watches more.

I'd defer to you if it was hockey though Ron. <3


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*

I get where the people saying they wouldn't hesitate to give up Gordon are coming from, because if you can get Chris Paul you should get Chris Paul. But you're over simplifying this. If the Hornets are dead set on trading Chris Paul, and you have the patience to sit on your hands instead of immediately caving on something, you might be able to get Chris Paul AND keep Eric Gordon. 2 1sts in a loaded draft and Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman might end up being the best offer on the table, so why wouldn't you at least _try_ to haggle a better deal for yourself? The Hornets are the ones backed into the corner here, not the Clippers.


----------



## HB

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*

If they can do the deal without adding Gordon....wow at that team.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*



Adam said:


> The Clippers have been one of my League Pass teams for the past two years and I try to catch as many games as I can because I follow DeAndre. You haven't watched more Clippers games than me. And you're wrong.


Eric Gordon is very good. If Chris Paul was physically sound, then you could talk about including Gordon in the deal, but Paul's only 26 and he's already pacing himself in the regular season so his knee will be healthy in the playoffs. What the Clippers need to do is find a third(and possibly even a fourth) team that will allow them to turn Mo Williams into an additional first round pick(s) to sweeten the deal for NO. Trading half the roster for a guy with a balky knee isn't exactly sound, especially now that the Knicks are out of the running for good and the Lakers have decided to look elsewhere.


----------



## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*

Man, Ron you aren't only person who lives in LA and has prime ticket. Gordon is good, but if it gets the deal done, man you ship his ass to New Orleans immediately. There are SG's out there to fill the void. The point guard upgrade is too great to ignore.


----------



## crise

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*

Just a quick question. Might be a stupid question but,

Is there any chance at all that the Knicks could sign CP3? Or signing him next July if CP3 doesn't agree to an extension with any teams this season?

They would officially be #1 imo then. CP3/Laundry back court, with Melo/Stat/Tyson front court, With Jeffreys and Douglas being 6/7th role? That's just deadly.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*



crise said:


> Just a quick question. Might be a stupid question but,
> 
> Is there any chance at all that the Knicks could sign CP3? Or signing him next July if CP3 doesn't agree to an extension with any teams this season?
> 
> They would officially be #1 imo then. CP3/Laundry back court, with Melo/Stat/Tyson front court, With Jeffreys and Douglas being 6/7th role? That's just deadly.


Not unless he's going to take the mid-level exception to play with them. That's basically the only way, which is to say it isn't happening.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*



HKF said:


> Man, Ron you aren't only person who lives in LA and has prime ticket. Gordon is good, but if it gets the deal done, man you ship his ass to New Orleans immediately. There are SG's out there to fill the void. The point guard upgrade is too great to ignore.


Not for a two-year rental, no way.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*



Ron said:


> Not for a two-year rental, no way.


why you are assuming it's a two year rental?


----------



## jaw2929

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*



HB said:


> If they can do the deal without adding Gordon....wow at that team.


Kinda what I was thinking. 

Not only that, but could the Clippers and Nets actually be GOOD this year for a change? That'd be bizarre to watch.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*



HKF said:


> Man, Ron you aren't only person who lives in LA and has prime ticket. Gordon is good, but if it gets the deal done, man you ship his ass to New Orleans immediately. There are SG's out there to fill the void. The point guard upgrade is too great to ignore.


Exactly. You do it. And that was just kind of a ridiculous thing he said. 



lol And crise guy's asked that question like 3 times in this thread about the Knicks.


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: Lakers are Out of the CP3 Sweepstakes; Clippers, Warriors and Celtics are*



Dissonance said:


> Problem with Gordon is not just as a player but NO will have to pay him a lot after this season and that also defeats the purpose.
> 
> Better off with Minnesota pick that will be top 4 most likely and their own. Rebuild with young players on rookie deals and maintain a lot of cap flex.


That may very well be true from NO's side. But what about the Clippers' side? Cut it however you want, Eric Gordon plus two years off Okafor's deal is already better than what they were ready to accept in the vetoed trade, and better than any package any other team will cough up. Just because you have other assets in addition to that package that already beats the others, doesn't mean you fork them over too just for the hell of it. 

You say they'll have to pay Gordon, which is true, but what about the other guys that are supposedly in the mix to be dealt for Paul? Rondo's already locked up for 4 more years, and his stock/effectiveness will plummet on a team like the Hornets. Ellis is locked in for 3 and is the king of empty numbers. Gordon >>>>> those two.

I repeat. The Clippers have leverage and should not make MIN's pick available here. If you have to, include your 2014 1st rounder in the deal or something. Clippers don't _have_ to make this trade. If the Hornets won't budge, tell them to enjoy Rondo/Ellis and the lack of salary relief, and be on your way.



Ron said:


> That's ****ing nuts. No way should the Clips part with Gordon. That's a deal breaker.


Yeah, that offer's insane.


----------



## BigWill33176

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotiations now for CP3*

I wouldn't sit on my hands trying to get a better deal if I were LAC. Things change fast in this league...look at the Nets/D12, Lakers getting CP3, etc. When an opportunity to land a player of Paul's caliber arises, you seize it. I would put the pressure on the Hornets to get it done ASAP. Don't offer Gordon right away but try to quickly get a feel for what they want and get it done as fast as possible without giving away the farm.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotiations now for CP3*

Gordon is not a deal-breaker. Are you guys kidding? 

On one hand, Paul going from one terrible franchise to another makes me shrug. 

On the other hand, Paul and Griffin playing together would be unbelievable. That is the kind of running mate he needs, not Kobe.


----------



## Wade County

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotiations now for CP3*

^ Plus he would instantly make DeAndre Jordan more valuable - can you imagine the lobs?

Add in Caron Butler, that squad looks pretty nice.


----------



## jaw2929

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotiations now for CP3*

Anyone think the Clippers will make the players this year, then?


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotiations now for CP3*

If they get Paul they will probably have a good chance to make it to the conference finals.


----------



## jaw2929

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotiations now for CP3*



Diable said:


> If they get Paul they will probably have a good chance to make it to the conference finals.


That far with Paul, Gordon or Jordan, Butler and Griffin ya think eh?


----------



## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotiations now for CP3*

Not a guarantee they go to the conference finals, but they would clearly be a playoff team and a threat. OKC, Dallas, Memphis still better for sure. Still have no idea how Griffin, Jordan will play in the playoffs. Butler had been out of the first round a total of two times in his playoff career.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*



rocketeer said:


> why you are assuming it's a two year rental?


All the reports are indicating CP3 will not file an extension but will not exercise an option: in other words, the Clips can only be rest assured he will be here for two seasons only.



> *Marc Stein* _@ESPNSteinLine_
> Mo Williams did same in Baron trade. Clips know CP3 won't do extension but merely opting in for 2012-13 lets LAC know they'd have two years


That's not going to cut it.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotiations now for CP3*



jaw2929 said:


> Anyone think the Clippers will make the players this year, then?


Without Paul, there making the playoffs...


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*



Ron said:


> All the reports are indicating CP3 will not file an extension but will not exercise an option: in other words, the Clips can only be rest assured he will be here for two seasons only.
> 
> 
> 
> *That's not going to cut it*.


It would for me.

Heck, I advocate the Grizz trading Marc Gasol for a one year rental of Dwight Howard. Have the Clippers, as an organization, ever had a player of CP3's stature just entering his prime?

If posters want to know how silly they sound thinking Eric Gordon is a deal breaker, just imagine if your favorite team had a 26 year old Chris Paul and you heard you were trading him for Eric Gordon, a 1st and scraps. I would go apeshit.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*



Ron said:


> All the reports are indicating CP3 will not file an extension but will not exercise an option: in other words, the Clips can only be rest assured he will be here for two seasons only.
> 
> That's not going to cut it.


yeah and two years is plenty of time for him to realize that the clippers and lakers actually play in the same city and if the clippers are actually a good team(which shouldn't be incredibly difficult to build around paul/griffin) i doubt he leaves.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotiations now for CP3*



NOFX22 said:


> Without Paul, there making the playoffs...


yeah, they were 14 games out of the playoffs last year and 13th in the west but caron butler makes them a playoff lock...


----------



## jaw2929

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotiations now for CP3*



rocketeer said:


> yeah, they were 14 games out of the playoffs last year and 13th in the west but caron butler makes them a playoff lock...


Right? LoL - That's why I was wondering.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*



MemphisX said:


> It would for me.
> 
> Heck, I advocate the Grizz trading Marc Gasol for a one year rental of Dwight Howard. Have the Clippers, as an organization, ever had a player of CP3's stature just entering his prime?
> 
> If posters want to know how silly they sound thinking Eric Gordon is a deal breaker, just imagine if your favorite team had a 26 year old Chris Paul and you heard you were trading him for Eric Gordon, a 1st and scraps. I would go apeshit.


Yeah?

Well, I have seen more Clipper roster collapses and disasters than I care to remember, and a lot more than years you have been on this planet. And I can easily foresee CP3 and Blake ditching Sterling and town faster than shit through a goose come July 2013.

Which will leave the Clippers as...well, as the Clippers.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*



rocketeer said:


> yeah and two years is plenty of time for him to realize that the clippers and lakers actually play in the same city and if the clippers are actually a good team(which shouldn't be incredibly difficult to build around paul/griffin) i doubt he leaves.


See my post above.

I would bank on him leaving.

It's the Clippers, man.


----------



## Kidd

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotiations now for CP3*



rocketeer said:


> yeah, they were 14 games out of the playoffs last year and 13th in the west but caron butler makes them a playoff lock...


It doesn't make them a lock, but it makes them significantly better. Butler gives them defense and toughness on the perimeter which they really really lacked last season. They had the other Butler, Gomes and some other randoms playing spot starter minutes last season, Caron Butler gives them consistency, he's a legit starter who can play at the end of games. I'm counting on Bledsoe, Aminu, Jordan, Griffin and Gordon all making improvements too.

Hopefully the front office flips Kaman and Mo Williams for some more help.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*



Ron said:


> See my post above.
> 
> I would bank on him leaving.
> 
> It's the Clippers, man.


yeah it's the clippers. when you're in one of the 2 or 3 cities that chris paul says he wants to go to, you have one of the best young players in the league to pair him with, and you're going to be guaranteed to have him for 2 years, you get the deal done.

that doesn't mean you just do whatever deal they want, but you don't make a guy like eric gordon untouchable.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotiations now for CP3*

@adbrandt (Andrew Brandt)
David Stern will only approve the @CP3 trade if the Hornets get Tebow.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotiations now for CP3*



Brian said:


> It doesn't make them a lock, but it makes them significantly better. Butler gives them defense and toughness on the perimeter which they really really lacked last season. They had the other Butler, Gomes and some other randoms playing spot starter minutes last season, Caron Butler gives them consistency, he's a legit starter who can play at the end of games. I'm counting on Bledsoe, Aminu, Jordan, Griffin and Gordon all making improvements too.
> 
> Hopefully the front office flips Kaman and Mo Williams for some more help.


as their roster stand right now, they have a shot at the playoffs. saying anything more definitive than that is stupid.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotiations now for CP3*



rocketeer said:


> yeah, they were 14 games out of the playoffs last year and 13th in the west but caron butler makes them a playoff lock...


If it wasn't for that horrible start last season, clippers could have made the playoffs...Denver lost most of there players to China and Nene not coming back...Hornets whoever they trade paul for will not get equal value...All of there players are back a year wiser and stronger...we added Caron veteran leadership and toughness...I'd say were a lock for the playoffs...


----------



## 29380

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotiations now for CP3*

*Clippers are close to deal for Chris Paul with Hornets*


> The Clippers and the New Orleans Hornets were working vigorously Sunday night to consummate a blockbuster deal that would send All-Star point guard Chris Paul to Los Angeles to play for the Lakers' cross-town rivals, said two people with knowledge of the situation who were not authorized to speak on the matter.
> 
> The deal hasn't been completed, but both sides were in the closing stages of the negotiations.
> *
> The Clippers would send the Hornets center Chris Kaman, backup second-year guard Eric Bledsoe, second-year forward Al-Farouq Aminu and the No. 1 draft pick they got from the Minnesota Timberwolves that is unprotected in the 2012 draft, considered to be one of the best in recent years.*
> 
> Clippers owner Donald Sterling and the NBA have to sign off on the deal.
> 
> A package from the Lakers for Paul was turned down by the league.
> 
> The NBA will probably review the Clippers deal Monday.
> 
> What may actually help the Clippers get the deal done are the young players involved and a potential top-flight draft pick.
> 
> When the Clippers and Hornets talked about a deal involving Paul last week, New Orleans had expressed interest in Eric Gordon. However, the Clippers didn't want to part with the 6-foot-3 guard who turns 23 on Christmas Day, because they consider him one of the NBA's top-five shooting guards.
> 
> He is not part of the deal that is currently being discussed.
> 
> Bledsoe just turned 22, but he will be out until late January recovering from surgery to repair torn cartilage in his right knee.
> 
> Aminu is 21 and Kaman is 29, but he's also in the final year of a contract that pays him $12.7 million, which makes him appealing.
> 
> The Clippers are aware that Paul, who will earn $16 million this season, can opt out of his contract this summer that pays him $17 million for the 2012-13 season.
> 
> The Clippers would love for Paul to sign an extension with them so they don't have him for just one season. If he doesn't agree to the extension, they hope he will pick up his option for next season.
> 
> Paul was involved in a trade to send him to the Lakers for Lamar Odom that involved three teams that was ultimately blocked by the NBA on Thursday.
> 
> It was a deal that would have sent Pau Gasol to the Houston Rockets, who in turn would have sent three players and a draft pick to the Hornets.
> 
> But the NBA killed that deal Thursday, opening the door for the Clippers to step back in.
> 
> Paul had called the NBA players' union and threatened legal action against the league for stopping the deal.
> 
> Paul is considered one of the top point guards in the NBA and the idea of putting him together with Clippers All-Star Blake Griffin would be hard for the Clippers to pass up.
> 
> Paul has averaged 18.7 points and 9.9 assists a game over his six-year career.
> 
> Clippers Coach Vinny Del ***** was asked about Paul earlier Sunday at the team's first of two practice sessions.
> 
> Del ***** never mentioned Paul's name and didn't talk about what it might take to get the All-Star guard to the Clippers
> 
> "We're always looking to improve our team and if there's an opportunity there, we're going to sit down and we're going to listen," Del ***** said after Sunday's practice. "But I'm pleased with the guys that we have here now. We'll make our adjustments as we see fit. If there are opportunities, we're going to take a look at them."


----------



## LamarButler

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotiations now for CP3*

LA Times says Chris Paul for Chris Kaman, Eric Bledsoe, Al-Farouq Aminu and Minnesota's 1st is almost a done deal.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*

I blame the Hornets GM if he even wastes time turning that into the league.


----------



## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotiations now for CP3*



NOFX22 said:


> If it wasn't for that horrible start last season, clippers could have made the playoffs...Denver lost most of there players to China and Nene not coming back...Hornets whoever they trade paul for will not get equal value...All of there players are back a year wiser and stronger...we added Caron veteran leadership and toughness...I'd say were a lock for the playoffs...


Utah, Phoenix, Golden State and Houston were still better than the Clippers. Without Chris Paul, no the Clippers will still miss the playoffs.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotiations now for CP3*



LamarButler said:


> LA Times says Chris Paul for Chris Kaman, Eric Bledsoe, Al-Farouq Aminu and Minnesota's 1st is almost a done deal.


As we found out, just because the Clippers and Hornets agreed to something doesn't make it a done deal. Have to consult with Gilbert first.


----------



## Ghost

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*

Great move for the clippers assuming that Paul signs a Extension


Paul
Gordon
Butler
Griffen
Jordan

that is a nice starting lineup with youth to get better as well


----------



## Kidd

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*

Yikes.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*



MemphisX said:


> I blame the Hornets GM if he even wastes time turning that into the league.


why? it looks like a deal the other owners would love. adds no long term salary and eliminates a team from playoff contention which makes their own team's chances improve.


----------



## mjm1

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*

how is this better than odom, scola, martin, and a 1st round pick? when the league asks for young players in return...does it not specify that they have to be any good?


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*

What a joke. Youth and picks? So...bad young players and a draft pick that might not even be very high. Don't forget, the Wolves have Rick Adelman as their coach now, and he has always been great with getting the most out of his players. If that team wins 35 games then this trade is absolutely HORRIBLE. With guys like Love, Williams, Wes Johnson, Beasley, Rubio...you never know - this team could win that many.

Dragic, Martin, Ariza, Odom, Scola is a good team that contends for the playoffs, and has two late lottery - mid first round picks. There's just no way the league should have interfered like this. All they've done is make the Hornets a dreadful team this season that is completely reliant upon their own draft pick and the pick of the Timberwolves. That's a terrible strategy, and it completely sabotages an entire season for the Hornets and their fans. They did not get a single decent player in this trade. Is a team of bums with two high lottery picks really worth very much money? People, a draft pick is NOT a sure thing - it's just not.

The NBA has set back the Lakers and Rockets for years, whilst basically monopolizing the trade market for the Clippers and hand-selecting where Chris Paul would land. Let's face it - this is the most blatantly visible act of corruption in pro sports ever.


----------



## Floods

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*

If Okafor isn't in the deal, then that's not a good trade for the Hornets.


----------



## BenDengGo

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*

thats a fair trade in my opinion. that draft pick will be valuable.


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*

Damn not giving up Gordon is a steal for The Clippers.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*



Damian Necronamous said:


> What a joke. Youth and picks? So...bad young players and a draft pick that might not even be very high. Don't forget, the Wolves have Rick Adelman as their coach now, and he has always been great with getting the most out of his players. If that team wins 35 games then this trade is absolutely HORRIBLE. With guys like Love, Williams, Wes Johnson, Beasley, Rubio...you never know - this team could win that many.
> 
> Dragic, Martin, Ariza, Odom, Scola is a good team that contends for the playoffs, and has two late lottery - mid first round picks. There's just no way the league should have interfered like this. All they've done is make the Hornets a dreadful team this season that is completely reliant upon their own draft pick and the pick of the Timberwolves. That's a terrible strategy, and it completely sabotages an entire season for the Hornets and their fans. They did not get a single decent player in this trade. Is a team of bums with two high lottery picks really worth very much money? People, a draft pick is NOT a sure thing - it's just not.
> 
> The NBA has set back the Lakers and Rockets for years, whilst basically monopolizing the trade market for the Clippers and hand-selecting where Chris Paul would land. Let's face it - this is the most blatantly visible act of corruption in pro sports ever.


I already archived you as saying Rubio was garbage, don't go back on it now.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*



Damian Necronamous said:


> What a joke. Youth and picks? So...bad young players and a draft pick that might not even be very high. Don't forget, the Wolves have Rick Adelman as their coach now, and he has always been great with getting the most out of his players. If that team wins 35 games then this trade is absolutely HORRIBLE. With guys like Love, Williams, Wes Johnson, Beasley, Rubio...you never know - this team could win that many.
> 
> Dragic, Martin, Ariza, Odom, Scola is a good team that contends for the playoffs, and has two late lottery - mid first round picks. There's just no way the league should have interfered like this. All they've done is make the Hornets a dreadful team this season that is completely reliant upon their own draft pick and the pick of the Timberwolves. That's a terrible strategy, and it completely sabotages an entire season for the Hornets and their fans. They did not get a single decent player in this trade. Is a team of bums with two high lottery picks really worth very much money? People, a draft pick is NOT a sure thing - it's just not.
> 
> The NBA has set back the Lakers and Rockets for years, whilst basically monopolizing the trade market for the Clippers and hand-selecting where Chris Paul would land. Let's face it - this is the most blatantly visible act of corruption in pro sports ever.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*

This is officially the second biggest thread in this forums history. Surpassing the Melo and Lebron threads from last year.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*



Damian Necronamous said:


> The NBA has set back the Lakers and Rockets for years, whilst basically monopolizing the trade market for the Clippers and hand-selecting where Chris Paul would land. Let's face it - this is the most blatantly visible act of corruption in pro sports ever.


No, it's not. The other owners have been uniform in being strongly against any move that adds salary to NO's payroll, and the Lakers trade had the Hornets taking on three veterans on sizeable contracts to get a backup and a low first. If you're trying to win 40-odd games in each of the next two seasons and sneak in as a low playoff seed you make the Laker deal. If you're trying to keep payroll commitments low and start rebuilding sooner rather than later you make the Clipper trade. I've been saying all along that the Clippers were the most logical landing spot for him.

EDIT: As far as Houston goes, they've been saved from themselves twice now. Even if you assume that they would have followed up trading for Pau with signing Nene, that team doesn't do much besides get bumped in the first round and tie up all their cap room for years. A sidekick, a role-player, and a garbage backcourt doesn't make for a successful rebuild.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Hornets and Clippers are in trade negotions now for CP3*



rocketeer said:


> that doesn't mean you just do whatever deal they want, but you don't make a guy like eric gordon untouchable.


Why overpay? New York has nothing to offer and the Lakers backed out after it became clear the Hornets won't be eating veteran contracts. All you have to beat out is offers of Monta Ellis or Rajon Rondo, and since the owners aren't willing to take on long-term contracts Demps probably isn't seriously considering those deals, anyway. Minny's pick _or_ Gordon is the best rebuilding package the Hornets are going to be offered that their owners will approve, so the Clippers can afford to wait it out a bit if needed.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*



Damian Necronamous said:


> What a joke. Youth and picks? So...bad young players and a draft pick that might not even be very high. Don't forget, the Wolves have Rick Adelman as their coach now, and he has always been great with getting the most out of his players. If that team wins 35 games then this trade is absolutely HORRIBLE. With guys like Love, Williams, Wes Johnson, Beasley, Rubio...you never know - this team could win that many.
> 
> Dragic, Martin, Ariza, Odom, Scola is a good team that contends for the playoffs, and has two late lottery - mid first round picks. There's just no way the league should have interfered like this. All they've done is make the Hornets a dreadful team this season that is completely reliant upon their own draft pick and the pick of the Timberwolves. That's a terrible strategy, and it completely sabotages an entire season for the Hornets and their fans. They did not get a single decent player in this trade. Is a team of bums with two high lottery picks really worth very much money? People, a draft pick is NOT a sure thing - it's just not.
> 
> The NBA has set back the Lakers and Rockets for years, whilst basically monopolizing the trade market for the Clippers and hand-selecting where Chris Paul would land. Let's face it - this is the most blatantly visible act of corruption in pro sports ever.


It's only a bad trade if you are a lakers fan lol. The Hornets need to be sold. To do that they need to be cutting payroll in some way, and accumulating young players and picks. That is how you rebuild.

Not by getting aging middle level players to compete for the 8th seed in a year where it's a really good draft.

The Twolves pick will be in the lottery, and so will the Hornets own pick. That's two lottery picks to kick off your rebuild.

AND you get Eric Gordon who is a young DWade. If you don't think that's a better deal, you're crazy biased.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*



thaKEAF said:


> Damn not giving up Gordon is a steal for The Clippers.


I thought they were now giving up Gordon? And withholding Bledsoe or something. A lot of conflicting reports right now.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*

btw, I think Aminu is going to be a really nice player. We're talking as if he's just a throw in for this deal.


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*



futuristxen said:


> I thought they were now giving up Gordon? And withholding Bledsoe or something. A lot of conflicting reports right now.


Most reports today are saying Aminu, Bledsoe, Kaman and a pick.


----------



## goodfoot

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*

I thought the Hornets were trying to get rid of Okafor, too.


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*



futuristxen said:


> I thought they were now giving up Gordon? And withholding Bledsoe or something. A lot of conflicting reports right now.





> *Adrian Wojnarowski* _@WojYahooNBA_
> Eric Gordon isn't included in a revised Clippers-New Orleans deal for Chris Paul, league source tells Y! Sports.


There was also another report last night that the Clippers told Eric Gordon he wouldn't be part of any trade for CP3. And that's the way it should be.


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*



goodfoot said:


> I thought the Hornets were trying to get rid of Okafor, too.


Perhaps, but that isn't a requirement of the Hornets...its not the same as Orlando requiring the team getting Howard must also take on Hedo's outrageous contract.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*

Espn is saying Eric Gordon is in the deal...I hope that is not true


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*

Still a good deal even without Gordon. They could end up with two top five picks this year if they are bad enough. Aminu is good. Kaman is an expiring.

Bledsoe I just read on the crawl on NBA.com is out for 6-8 weeks...dunno what he's going to do for them.

Clippers are going to be an insane team though. Mo Williams would be CP3's backup, right?


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*

According to realgm there are 2 sources right now (yahoo and some other dude) that says no Gordon and one source (espn) that says Gordon is included.


----------



## Floods

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*



> The New Orleans Hornets and Los Angeles Clippers submitted a multiplayer blockbuster deal to the NBA on Sunday that would send All-Star point guard Chris Paul to Los Angeles, a source with knowledge of the discussions said Monday.


Why leak this to the media before it's approved? Now if this one gets blocked, that's another franchise that gets messed up.

I'm shocked that there's no Okafor. Seriously, it didn't occur to either team that knocking two years off of Okafor's contract is great for New Orleans and likely means LA doesn't have to give up as much of their other assets?


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*

The Clippers should consider offering Blake Griffin to the Magic for Dwight Howard if the Paul trade goes through. 

Instead of a Paul, Kobe, Howard team in LA there could be a Paul, Gordon, Howard team.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*



Damian Necronamous said:


> Dragic, Martin, Ariza, Odom, Scola is a good team that contends for the playoffs, and has two late lottery - mid first round picks.


New York won't be the eighth seed in the East, sorry.

Let's see, old roleplayers making $76 million, a pick in the 25-30 range, and a probable loss of $100 million in franchise re-sale value, vs. two young roleplayers on cheap money contracts, a decent starting NBA center if healthy (admittedly a big if in Kaman's case), and a pick that's a guaranteed lottery selection. And that's before even addressing E-Go (who if he is part of the trade, is better than anyone in the _ossum_ original deal). I can see why this would be a tough decision. 

No, wait, I'm lying. I can't see why anyone in their right mind (i.e. any non-Lakers fan) would take more than a second and a half to take the Clippers package. Two top 10 picks in the 2012 draft are about seventeen times more valuable than Little K-Mart, Pepsi Scola and Shrek.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*

I don't get it? Why keep Bledsoe when your getting Paul? Bledsoe has a chance being a better player than Gordon or Paul but that might not happen for another 3-4yrs and that's a long time in nba yrs! Lol


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*



Floods said:


> Why leak this to the media before it's approved? Now if this one gets blocked, that's another franchise that gets messed up.



Probably to put pressure on Stern to veto another trade. I would imagine it's Dell Demps that is leaking this stuff. If this trade gets vetoed, I think teams should probably give up--because all you are going to do is disrupt your team chemistry.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*



E.H. Munro said:


> Two top 10 picks in the 2012 draft are about seventeen times more valuable than Little K-Mart, Pepsi Scola and Shrek.


Crazy to me how many fans and media "experts" don't understand this.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*

daldridgetnt David Aldridge
Per a source who has been briefed on NO-LAC negotiations, the Hornets have to choose between the Minnesota pick and Gordon. Can't have both.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*

Step 1. Complete the Paul trade. Step 2. Trade Griffin for Howard. Instant contenders!


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*



futuristxen said:


> Crazy to me how many fans and media "experts" don't understand this.


The media guys might actually get it, but their product is the story, and small market teams conspiring to deprive the Lakers of talent and screw over star players is a much more interesting story than the league not wanting to commit big money to a 44-win team when they're trying to sell the franchise.


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*



> *Chris Broussard* _@Chris_Broussard_
> Sources say in addition to Bledsoe, league asking for another pick from Minny. Stern is trying to make this impossible.


Stern to players' union: "So sue me!"


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*



futuristxen said:


> Probably to put pressure on Stern to veto another trade. I would imagine it's Dell Demps that is leaking this stuff. If this trade gets vetoed, I think teams should probably give up--because all you are going to do is disrupt your team chemistry.


This.


----------



## Floods

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*

Lol, walk away Clippers.


----------



## FSH

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*

Seriously Clippers walk away dont give up your future for 2 years of Chris Paul

But im guessing they wont since they want to stop being the laughing stock of the NBA but in 2 Years when Chris Paul leaves they will be again


----------



## Ron

*Report: Chris Paul to Clippers deal submitted to league for approval*

*Report: Chris Paul to Clippers deal submitted to league for approval*


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*



FSH said:


> Seriously Clippers walk away dont give up your future for 2 years of Chris Paul
> 
> But im guessing they wont since they want to stop being the laughing stock of the NBA but in 2 Years when Chris Paul leaves they will be again


Why is everyone so convinced that Paul's still bolting after two years if the Clippers retain Gordon, Griffin, and Jordan, as it appears that they intend to?


----------



## Diable

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 submitted for approval*

The only reason for the Clippers not to do the deal is the fear of their own incompetence and poor decisions. If they get Paul and then make wise decisions afterwards they will be able to sign him to a new contract. If they trade for Paul and then do a bunch of stupid shit he won't stay. It is all on them.


----------



## mjm1

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 submitted for approval*

A waste of time. The league is going to reject the trade.


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 submitted for approval*



Diable said:


> The only reason for the Clippers not to do the deal is the fear of their own incompetence and poor decisions. If they get Paul and then make wise decisions afterwards they will be able to sign him to a new contract. If they trade for Paul and then do a bunch of stupid shit he won't stay. It is all on them.


If players were logical creatures I would agree with you; however, as we have seen, some of these players think like aliens. You just don't know what they will do, and that's where the fear comes in.


----------



## FSH

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*



Bogg said:


> Why is everyone so convinced that Paul's still bolting after two years if the Clippers retain Gordon, Griffin, and Jordan, as it appears that they intend to?


Gordon is apart of the trade


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 submitted for approval*



mjm1 said:


> A waste of time. The league is going to reject the trade.


And if they do, then CP3 sues. Because it will be clear the league doesn't want to move him.

Not that it matters to Stern anyway...he is captaining a sinking ship.


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*



FSH said:


> Gordon is apart of the trade


There are different sources saying different things, but the consensus is that he is NOT part of the trade.


----------



## FSH

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*



Ron said:


> There are different sources saying different things, but the consensus is that he is NOT part of the trade.


if Gordon isnt apart of the deal then i doubt this trade get approved by the league


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*



FSH said:


> Gordon is apart of the trade


Is that official? It's been unclear up until now.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 submitted for approval*



Ron said:


> And if they do, then CP3 sues. Because it will be clear the league doesn't want to move him.
> 
> Not that it matters to Stern anyway...he is captaining a sinking ship.


How would Paul have any basis to sue the NBA for not trading him? There's no legal requirement to honor a trade request, a team is free to retain a player for the duration of his contract, should they so choose. That's what I don't get in the whole "the league will be sued!" narrative.


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: Clips close to acquiring CP3 for Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Bledsoe/Kaman*



Bogg said:


> Is that official? It's been unclear up until now.


There are too many conflicting reports so nothing is official, but I have to believe the Clippers are keeping their word to Gordon he wouldn't be part of this deal.

Then again, it is the Clippers.............


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 submitted for approval*



Bogg said:


> How would Paul have any basis to sue the NBA for not trading him? There's no legal requirement to honor a trade request, a team is free to retain a player for the duration of his contract, should they so choose. That's what I don't get in the whole "the league will be sued!" narrative.


Paul Tagliabue said it best: "All you need for a lawsuit is $10 and a fax machine."

I didn't say any lawsuit would be successful, all I said is that the union has threatened such a lawsuit.

For his part, Paul can argue the league is costing him roughly $26 million by not allowing him free by December 31 and when he walks away as a free agent in June (new CBA idiosyncrasies).

The whole lawsuit threat has nothing to do with winning. It has everything to do with further dirtying up the NBA's reputation, which Stern did a pretty good job of this past weekend.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 submitted for approval*



Ron said:


> Paul Tagliabue said it best: "All you need for a lawsuit is $10 and a fax machine."
> 
> I didn't say any lawsuit would be successful, all I said is that the union has threatened such a lawsuit.
> 
> For his part, Paul can argue the league is costing him roughly $26 million by not allowing him free by December 31 and when he walks away as a free agent in June (new CBA idiosyncrasies).
> 
> The whole lawsuit threat has nothing to do with winning. It has everything to do with further dirtying up the NBA's reputation, which Stern did a pretty good job of this past weekend.


You guys need to quit pouting about that trade like little brat kids.

If Stern did it to another team, you wouldn't have a problem with it.


----------



## Diable

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 submitted for approval*

Actually Paul is being discriminated against pretty clearly. The league has pretty much declared that he does not have the same rights as the rest of the players or all of the 300 million other Americans. If you made this a civil rights case you'd probably have a fair chance of winning, because Paul is clearly being treated differently from the other NBA players. Stern very clearly has a conflict of interest which should disqualify him from making the final decision in this matter. 

However the charge that the Union is going to argue is collusion, which would probably allow them to obtain all of the emails related to the subject from all of the owners and the league officials. I would bet you that would at least be very embarrassing.


----------



## Jamel Irief

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 submitted for approval*

That's not a better package than the LA/Houston one, but it's younger and cheaper I guess. I say it gets approved.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 submitted for approval*



Ron said:


> Paul Tagliabue said it best: "All you need for a lawsuit is $10 and a fax machine."
> 
> I didn't say any lawsuit would be successful, all I said is that the union has threatened such a lawsuit.
> 
> For his part, Paul can argue the league is costing him roughly $26 million by not allowing him free by December 31 and when he walks away as a free agent in June (new CBA idiosyncrasies).
> 
> The whole lawsuit threat has nothing to do with winning. It has everything to do with further dirtying up the NBA's reputation, which Stern did a pretty good job of this past weekend.


Fair enough, so long as we're acknowledging that it's more about creating a media firestorm than it is about having a leg to stand on. The obvious response to the $26 million argument is that he's absolutely free to sign a maximum extension with New Orleans anytime he wants. There's no way the NBA lawyers would have included the new salary structures in the CBA if there was the possibility that a player could sue his team for allowing him to hit free agency. Truth be told, the whole lawsuit talk from the NBAPA just seems like a bit of a tantrum, if you ask me.


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 submitted for approval*



R-Star said:


> You guys need to quit pouting about that trade like little brat kids.
> 
> If Stern did it to another team, you wouldn't have a problem with it.


You haven't been paying attention, R-Star. I don't care that he did it, I thought the Lakers were going overboard with the deal itself. The Odom thing is stupid too. Jim Buss is not Jerry Buss.

I do enjoy seeing Stern twist in the wind when he ****s up tho.


----------



## mjm1

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 submitted for approval*



Jamel Irief said:


> That's not a better package than the LA/Houston one, but it's *younger and cheaper I guess. I say it gets approved.*


thats what the league wants. if they reject it, then Stern should step away from the train-wreck he helped create and resign.


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 submitted for approval*



Bogg said:


> The obvious response to the $26 million argument is that he's absolutely free to sign a maximum extension with New Orleans anytime he wants.


But he doesn't want to. That's the whole point of free agency, isn't it? He wants to play somewhere else next year, not stuck in New Orleans for the foreseeable future. This is not the 1960s.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 submitted for approval*



Diable said:


> Actually Paul is being discriminated against pretty clearly. The league has pretty much declared that he does not have the same rights as the rest of the players or all of the 300 million other Americans. If you made this a civil rights case you'd probably have a fair chance of winning, because *Paul is clearly being treated differently from the other NBA players*. Stern very clearly has a conflict of interest which should disqualify him from making the final decision in this matter.


No, he's not. He agreed to a contract. He's asked for a trade, or at the very least indicated that he doesn't intend to return after his current contract is up. There's no legal requirement for a team to trade an unhappy player, so long as they continue to pay the agreed upon salary and generally don't do anything outlandish with their labor practices. If the emails could prove that the 29 other owners were doing everything they could to deprive the Lakers of talent out of spite, then the _Lakers_ might have a case, but a player can't sue because he wasn't able to pick the team in his trade request


----------



## R-Star

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 submitted for approval*



Diable said:


> Actually Paul is being discriminated against pretty clearly. The league has pretty much declared that he does not have the same rights as the rest of the players or all of the 300 million other Americans. If you made this a civil rights case you'd probably have a fair chance of winning, because Paul is clearly being treated differently from the other NBA players. Stern very clearly has a conflict of interest which should disqualify him from making the final decision in this matter.
> 
> However the charge that the Union is going to argue is collusion, which would probably allow them to obtain all of the emails related to the subject from all of the owners and the league officials. I would bet you that would at least be very embarrassing.


Are you ****ing kidding me? Get a job important enough to need a contract and get back to me. Once that happens, go into the office and say "I want you to move me to one of these two different companies."


You want to compare Paul to the average American, feel free, but you look like an idiot in doing so. 

You also look like one making this about civil rights.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 submitted for approval*



Ron said:


> But he doesn't want to. That's the whole point of free agency, isn't it? He wants to play somewhere else next year, not stuck in New Orleans for the foreseeable future. This is not the 1960s.


.....and under the collective bargaining agreement the players union _just agreed to_ he's 100% free to enter free agency if he should chose. There's no legal requirement for every player to have "X" number of all-star teammates, the city of their choice, and the maximum salary at all times. That's the whole point of the lockout we just went through, isn't it?


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 submitted for approval*



Bogg said:


> .....and under the collective bargaining agreement the players union _just agreed to_ he's 100% free to enter free agency if he should chose. There's no legal requirement for every player to have "X" number of all-star teammates, the city of their choice, and the maximum salary at all times. That's the whole point of the lockout we just went through, isn't it?


You just contradicted your own argument. On the one hand you say he is absolutely free to sign an extension. On the other hand you say he is absolutely free to walk away.

Paul wants the money and to also dictate where he wants to play. You are right (obviously) that there is no legal requirement as stated above; however, he can also make life very miserable for the Hornets and their future should they do the same to him (or should I say, should the league do the same to him).


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 submitted for approval*



Ron said:


> You just contradicted your own argument. On the one hand you say he is absolutely free to sign an extension. On the other hand you say he is absolutely free to walk away.


That's not contradictory at all, both statements are 100% true. Chris Paul is free to sign a max extension at any point he wants. Chris Paul is also free to play out the final season of his contract and then leave New Orleans. 



Ron said:


> Paul wants the money and to also dictate where he wants to play.


Lots of people want lots of things. However, under the labor agreement that the players just approved, he has no right to that. Again, I'm not arguing that Paul _could_ sue the league, just that the lawsuit would be baseless.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 submitted for approval*



Ron said:


> You just contradicted your own argument. On the one hand you say he is absolutely free to sign an extension. On the other hand you say he is absolutely free to walk away.
> 
> Paul wants the money and to also dictate where he wants to play. You are right (obviously) that there is no legal requirement as stated above; however, he can also make life very miserable for the Hornets and their future should they do the same to him (or should I say, should the league do the same to him).


So, after all your blasting of Lebron for the past years, now that Stern spurned your Lakers, you are now fighting for the plight of the poor players locked into contracts they signed?

Come on...


----------



## TrailofDead

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 submitted for approval*

http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA:

"Clippers are refusing New Orleans-NBA steep asking price for Chris Paul, league sources tell Y! Sports. "Deal could be dying," source says."


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 submitted for approval*



> *Adrian Wojnarowski* _@WojYahooNBA_
> Clippers are refusing New Orleans-NBA steep asking price for Chris Paul, league sources tell Y! Sports. "Deal could be dying," source says.


Totally expected. CP3 is going nowhere this season.


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*

League should force CP3 to sign a lifetime deal with the Hornets.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*

Lawsuit will be coming then.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*

A lawsuit with _what_ exactly as its basis?


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*



Dissonance said:


> Lawsuit will be coming then.


An impossible suit to win.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*

Aldridge is saying it's still close :whoknows:




> daldridgetnt David Aldridge
> Source: CP3 to Clippers is "close," but not yet done.
> 
> And, folks: don't go nuts if there's conflicting info on deal out there. We all have sources we trust.


----------



## Marcus13

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*

Well at least that can end all that "The NBA hates the Lakers" thing


----------



## bootstrenf

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*

It bolis down to either Gordon or the minny pick... It shouldn't be both.... My head is about to explode...


----------



## bootstrenf

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*

...


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*



thaKEAF said:


> League should force CP3 to sign a lifetime deal with the Hornets.


How so? This is a necessary by-product of the new labor agreement. Unhappy players will still ask for trades. General managers have to do their jobs, decide how serious a player is about leaving money on the table to go to a better situation, and react appropriately. Players have to make some big boy decisions about whether money is more important to them than team success, and react appropriately. The Hornets can't force Chris Paul to stay in New Orleans past the date that the two parties agreed to. At the same time, Chris Paul can't force the Hornets to give him a $100 million contract on his way out the door. It's a two-way street, and it's time for people to be adults.


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*

It was a joke lol


----------



## Floods

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*



thaKEAF said:


> It was a joke lol


Backtroll'd.


----------



## mjm1

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*

The league will only approve a trade in which the Hornets blatantly rip-off its trading partner(s).


----------



## FSH

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*

Good that it is off there is no way Clippers should give Gordon,Bledsoe,Kaman,Amifu + them Picks that is insane


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> An impossible suit to win.



Not really. Going to cost him $25 million to leave and the league is preventing him from being traded.

I keep telling people that this crooked ass league never, never ever wants to see discovery in court.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*



MemphisX said:


> Not really. Going to cost him $25 million to leave and the league is preventing him from being traded.
> 
> I keep telling people that this crooked ass league never, never ever wants to see discovery in court.


Did he sign a contract?


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*



FSH said:


> Good that it is off there is no way Clippers should give Gordon,Bledsoe,Kaman,Amifu + them Picks that is insane



:2ti:

This is just straight ignorance. Nothing in that package has an iota of possibility of being better than Chris Paul.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*



mjm1 said:


> The league will only approve a trade in which the Hornets blatantly rip-off its trading partner(s).


Which makes sense as opposed to giving Paul away for scraps.


----------



## mjm1

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*



R-Star said:


> Which makes sense as opposed to giving Paul away for scraps.


well i agree. if only other GMs exercised such restraint.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*



R-Star said:


> Did he sign a contract?


So, there is no way he could have possibly foreseen the league owning the team.


Oh and lost in all this, New Orleans does not even have a full roster 3 days into traing camp. Totally unique situation.


----------



## TrailofDead

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*

http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA:

"The Hornets-Clippers deal for Chris Paul has died, league source tells Y! Sports."


----------



## R-Star

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*



MemphisX said:


> So, there is no way he could have possibly foreseen the league owning the team.
> 
> 
> Oh and lost in all this, New Orleans does not even have a full roster 3 days into traing camp. Totally unique situation.


Halliburton could get purchased by an Asian conglomerate tomorrow. I still have to honor my contract.

So that argument is asinine. 

Paul signed a contract. The Hornets owe him nothing in regards to trading him to whatever he thinks is the best situation for him.

The fact some of you think NO should just take whatever offer from Pauls favorite suitor is the 2nd funniest thing at play here. The first? The fact you guys think he'll have plausible legal action because NO decided they didn't want to grab their ankles for Paul and the Lakers.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*



MemphisX said:


> Not really. Going to cost him $25 million to leave and the league is preventing him from being traded.
> 
> I keep telling people that this crooked ass league never, never ever wants to see discovery in court.


There's no requirement to allow each player to play in the exact city they want to that year. It _will_ cost him 25 million to leave, that was the point of the procedural changes the owners negotiated for in the new CBA. Chris Paul can take the extra $25 million and stick around in New Orleans, or he can chase rings elsewhere. It's entirely in his control. There's nothing crooked about that. 



MemphisX said:


> Oh and lost in all this, New Orleans does not even have a full roster 3 days into traing camp. Totally unique situation.


Primarily because the process of trying to find Paul a new city that he finds to his liking is taking up the entirety of the front office's time. They could have just as easily told Chris, flatly, "No", gone about assembling a roster, and told him to deal. Instead they've handicapped the rest of the team to accommodate him. Doesn't seem like something to sue about at all.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*



R-Star said:


> Halliburton could get purchased by an Asian conglomerate tomorrow. I still have to honor my contract.
> 
> So that argument is asinine.
> 
> Paul signed a contract. The Hornets owe him nothing in regards to trading him to whatever he thinks is the best situation for him.
> 
> The fact some of you think NO should just take whatever offer from Pauls favorite suitor is the 2nd funniest thing at play here. The first? The fact you guys think he'll have plausible legal action because NO decided they didn't want to grab their ankles for Paul and the Lakers.


Yup. There is no legal claim here.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*



MemphisX said:


> Not really. Going to cost him $25 million to leave and the league is preventing him from being traded.
> 
> I keep telling people that this crooked ass league never, never ever wants to see discovery in court.


Preventing him from being traded? Hahaha that is not a legal claim. He is not entitled to a trade. There is a reason that rule, the salary cap, and the collective bargaining agreement are in place.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*



R-Star said:


> Halliburton could get purchased by an Asian conglomerate tomorrow. I still have to honor my contract.
> 
> So that argument is asinine.
> 
> Paul signed a contract. The Hornets owe him nothing in regards to trading him to whatever he thinks is the best situation for him.
> 
> The fact some of you think NO should just take whatever offer from Pauls favorite suitor is the 2nd funniest thing at play here. The first? The fact you guys think he'll have plausible legal action because NO decided they didn't want to grab their ankles for Paul and the Lakers.


Has nothing to do with the Lakers are Paul actually. The league is walking into new territory. If you think a signed contract is the end all be all of legal proceedings, you are a fool.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*



MemphisX said:


> Has nothing to do with the Lakers are Paul actually. The league is walking into new territory. If you think a signed contract is the end all be all of legal proceedings, you are a fool.


When you become an adult, and understand how adults do business, you will understand.


And yea, a signed contract is built for one purpose, to be the be all, end all of legal proceedings. You have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about.


"Chris Paul _DID_ sign said contract with New Orleans your honor, we aren't trying to hide that. But the thing is, he isn't happy there and wants to leave." 

Yep, Sounds like a rock solid case.


Please though, keep posting.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*

What is so good about Eric Bledsoe, Aminu, and Kaman anyway? It's not a given that the Minnesota pick will turn into some stud either. The Wolves could be better than expected this year or the balls could bounce the wrong way in the lottery. I would want Gordon too if I were the Hornets. I don't know why you guys think the Hornets should just accept whatever crap is offered to them.


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead, LA is done with CP3, now on to 27 remaining teams*

Rumor:

Stern will deal CP3 to God for Jesus Christ. It's not known if Stern also wants God's no. 1 draft pick.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*



R-Star said:


> When you become an adult, and understand how adults do business, you will understand.
> 
> 
> And yea, a signed contract is built for one purpose, to be the be all, end all of legal proceedings. You have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about.
> 
> 
> "Chris Paul _DID_ sign said contract with New Orleans your honor, we aren't trying to hide that. But the thing is, he isn't happy there and wants to leave."
> 
> Yep, Sounds like a rock solid case.
> 
> 
> Please though, keep posting.




No, I think you need to join the adult world where just because you sign a contract you are forever denied remedies when the spirit of the contract is violated. 

Never said he had a right to get out of his contract.
Never said he had a right to be traded.

However, his future earning maybe compromised due to the league taking over the Hornets and thus he may have a legal case.


----------



## jaw2929

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead, LA is done with CP3, now on to 27 remaining teams*



Ron said:


> Rumor:
> 
> Stern will deal CP3 to God for Jesus Christ. It's not known if Stern also wants God's no. 1 draft pick.


Nice. Think JC can run the court as well as CP3?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*



MemphisX said:


> No, I think you need to join the adult world where just because you sign a contract you are forever denied remedies when the spirit of the contract is violated.
> 
> Never said he had a right to get out of his contract.
> Never said he had a right to be traded.
> 
> However, his future earning maybe compromised due to the league taking over the Hornets and thus he may have a legal case.


Everyone in his situation could have their future earnings compromised. 

Its what the players just agreed to. What exactly are you trying to say his case will be? They just finished agreeing to the NBA's terms, now they're going to take them to court over something they agreed upon?


You're making a fool of yourself.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: REPORT: League balks at Clips offer for CP3; "deal may be dying"*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> What is so good about Eric Bledsoe, Aminu, and Kaman anyway? It's not a given that the Minnesota pick will turn into some stud either. The Wolves could be better than expected this year or the balls could bounce the wrong way in the lottery. I would want Gordon too if I were the Hornets. I don't know why you guys think the Hornets should just accept whatever crap is offered to them.



Thank you! 

Eric Gordon plus crap plus a lottery pick is fair compensation for a 26 year old PG who almoat won an MVP.


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead, LA is done with CP3, now on to 27 remaining teams*



jaw2929 said:


> Nice. Think JC can run the court as well as CP3?


That's the $64,000 question. That's why Stern may also want the no. 1 pick thrown in as insurance.


----------



## jaw2929

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead, LA is done with CP3, now on to 27 remaining teams*



Ron said:


> That's the $64,000 question. That's why Stern may also want the no. 1 pick thrown in as insurance.


Makes sense! Hah!


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead, LA is done with CP3, now on to 27 remaining teams*



> *Eric Pincus* _@EricPincus_
> Let's keep it moving - 27 other teams to bait and switch on . . .


I resist reposting Hoopsworld stuff, because they get so much wrong (see the supposed "Mayo trade to the Pacers" today for an example of that), but this tweet nails it.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead, LA is done with CP3, now on to 27 remaining teams*

Seriously. And forget that 'but he can leave as a free agent for nothing if they don't accept that deal!11!!!' argument. That is why there is a provision in the collective bargaining agreement which was signed by the players that allows a player's current team to offer more years and more money than other teams in free agency. I would much rather see how much the guy really values 30 million dollars than guarantee that he's not on the team by trading him for crap, and that offer was crap if it didn't include Gordon.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*

Crappy situation for Paul. He will either lose a ton of money, or have to stay on a team that is owned and operated (monetarily and from a basketball standpoint, now) by owners of other teams. They have no chance to be competitive. The people who are ultimately in charge of basketball-related moves have ulterior motives. 

I don't think he has any legal ground to stand on for a lawsuit, but it's clear the NBA should have never stepped in to buy the Hornets. It's been a disaster, and Paul is taking the brunt of the negative impact.


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*



> *Marc Stein* _@ESPNSteinLine_
> Sources: Clippers were asked to part w/top five trade assets for CP3: Gordon, Minnesota pick, Kaman's expiring contract, Aminu and Bledsoe


Outrageous. Stern is making it so CP3 is untradeable. He will have to play for NOLA this season.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*

Meh. Should've done it. Gordon/Minnesota 1 are main rebuilding blocks. Others just basically throw ins to make it look good and won't end up being more than solid players.


This is Chris Paul we're talking about.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*



Ron said:


> Outrageous. Stern is making it so CP3 is untradeable. He will have to play for NOLA this season.


......and that's an outrage.....why?


----------



## Marcus13

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*

So what's the issue? Dude is under contract anyway.

This should be a learning lesson for the league to not enter ownership anymore though


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*



Ron said:


> Outrageous. Stern is making it so CP3 is untradeable. He will have to play for NOLA this season.


Outrageous how? That offer is garbage without Gordon.


----------



## 29380

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*



> Looks like league is saying it won't let CP dictate that NO trade him where he wants to go. Looks like they may make him become FA and





> Settle for teams with cap room or take far less $ to pick his spot. Or stay in NO for biggest payday. This must be about principle not bball


http://twitter.com/#!/Chris_Broussard


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*

Yup. And that's exactly what I would do if I were the Hornets or Magic GM.


----------



## Floods

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*



Knicks4life said:


> http://twitter.com/#!/Chris_Broussard


I hope players only team up more frequently now.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 submitted for approval*



Ron said:


> You just contradicted your own argument. On the one hand you say he is absolutely free to sign an extension. On the other hand you say he is absolutely free to walk away.


That's not a contradiction, those are the options granted NBA players under the newly signed CBA.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*



> .“@KevinDing: Talking to Mitch Kupchak now ... He has not given up on getting Chris Paul (or other big deals).”


..


----------



## Game3525

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*

WTH are the Clippers doing, just give them Gordon and be done with it.

Also the league needs to get of it's high horse about trying to regulate where players go. For all the crap of players being entitled, some of these owners think they are entitled to the best players, even though their upper management sucks.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*

I got news for you...they are entitled to the players that they have under contract.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*

the thing is the league can't stop chris paul from dictating where he goes. if he tells a team you won't sign an extension or even pick up his player option to guarantee a 2nd year, they aren't going to give up anything good enough to actually get him.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*

How are they breaking their contract?

Paul has shown up to work and is practicing, there is nothing there that says a player can't tell the team his future plans.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*



Game3525 said:


> How are they breaking their contract?
> 
> Paul has shown up to work and is practicing, there is nothing there that says a player can't tell the team his future plans.


That's the thing, neither side has broken their contract. Chris Paul has the option of asking the team to trade him or leaving at the end of his current deal, and New Orleans can simply tell him no, assign a very high trade value to him, or give him away to the first suitor. This is just how the current labor arrangement works, nothing shady is happening.


----------



## Diable

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*

The league should be trying to make the Hornets attractive to potential buyers. They don't even have a roster for that team right now. They have five players under contract with two weeks before the season starts. It is almost as though they are intent upon destroying the franchise, but they can not do that because they would need the consent of the players association to get rid of a team. The Hornets have 10 thousand season ticket holders right now and they should make the league either give them their money back or stop their meddling.


----------



## Adam

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*

According to Woj's latest article, Stern asked for Gordon and the Clips said no so the deal died. How the hell can people be trying to blame Stern for this one? In what world can you trade for Chris Paul, who is arguably better than either Blake Griffin or Eric Gordon, and not give up at least Gordon?


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*



Adam said:


> According to Woj's latest article, Stern asked for Gordon and the Clips said no so the deal died. How the hell can people be trying to blame Stern for this one? In what world can you trade for Chris Paul, who is arguably better than either Blake Griffin or Eric Gordon, and not give up at least Gordon?


Seriously. It's baffling that people are outraged by this.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*



Adam said:


> According to Woj's latest article, Stern asked for Gordon and the Clips said no so the deal died. How the hell can people be trying to blame Stern for this one? In what world can you trade for Chris Paul, who is arguably better than either Blake Griffin or Eric Gordon, and not give up at least Gordon?


But.......Chris Paul is sad! He should sue.


----------



## HKF

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*

Chris Paul isn't arguably better than Blake and Gordon. He IS CLEARLY BETTER!


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*



rocketeer said:


> the thing is the league can't stop chris paul from dictating where he goes. if he tells a team you won't sign an extension or even pick up his player option to guarantee a 2nd year, they aren't going to give up anything good enough to actually get him.


They also don't have to trade him.


----------



## goodfoot

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*

So who has cap space next year?


----------



## HKF

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*



goodfoot said:


> So who has cap space next year?


Doesn't matter if he only wants to play for 3 teams in two cities.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*



goodfoot said:


> So who has cap space next year?


Suns will have room for 2 MAX deals but even as a fan I know no top player will go there.


----------



## goodfoot

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*



HKF said:


> Doesn't matter if he only wants to play for 3 teams in two cities.


I don't think he'll play for the MLE. I think this is just a David Stern experiment to see if a max player will actually leave that money on the table and leave the team.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*



HKF said:


> Chris Paul isn't arguably better than Blake and Gordon. He IS CLEARLY BETTER!


Yea, but at 26 he's already pacing himself in the regular season so that his knee's in good shape for the playoffs. With a balky knee, and no guarantee that he'll sign an extension, I don't blame the Clippers for not giving up the Minny #1 AND Gordon to get Paul. Blake and Paul would both be free agents after next year, and Paul walking followed by Blake taking the QO and leaving the next season WOULD be an old-school Clippers roster collapse.


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*



> *Ken Berger* _@KBergCBS_
> League officials' efforts to re-engage Clippers in Chris Paul talks not going well, source says. As far as team is concerned, "It's over."


...

Pathetic. This league is...pathetic.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*

Apparently, NO GM Dell Demps isn't even involved with the talks.


----------



## Ballscientist

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*



goodfoot said:


> I don't think he'll play for the MLE. I think this is just a David Stern experiment to see if a max player will actually leave that money on the table and leave the team.


MLE or mini MLE is not a great idea.

In the history, Melo and Tim Thomas (Former Suns) don't care about money. They just want to win.


----------



## Marcus13

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*

This is getting better and better.

I've lost all respect for Chris Paul this off-season


----------



## Brandon Real

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*



Dissonance said:


> Apparently, NO GM Dell Demps isn't even involved with the talks.


I read on Woj's twitter update that they dismissed him from making decisions altogether and Stu Jackson is now handling the phones.

Personally I don't see how this isn't a conflict of interest the second Stern stepped foot in here. Demps and Sperling were hired to run the team without interference from the league to prevent that. Now with the whole league running the Hornets there is major freakin' interference from the league. This is a big deal.


----------



## lakeshows

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*



HKF said:


> Chris Paul isn't arguably better than Blake and Gordon. He IS CLEARLY BETTER!


That type of talk gets people no where. When a superstar is traded they will be clearly better than anyone in a trade.

The same can be said of any trade Dwight Howard will be in. Any, unless he is traded for Lebron straight up. Yet teams like the Lakers who have NO ONE on Dwight's level seem to be confident they can trade for him.

If you want to trade a player, you trade him for the best package you can get. If you don't want to trade the player that's their prerogative, but then don't lead people on and say he's on the block. And don't discount the value of a top 5 pick. With a top 5 likely pick you can get a superstar.


----------



## goodfoot

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*



Ballscientist said:


> MLE or mini MLE is not a great idea.
> 
> In the history, Melo and Tim Thomas (Former Suns) don't care about money. They just want to win.


Huh? Melo made the Knicks trade all their depth cause he wanted the extension money.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/CP3 Dead "for now," on to 27 remaining teams to have their shot*



goodfoot said:


> Huh? Melo made the Knicks trade all their depth cause he wanted the extension money.


Don't think too much about Ballscientist's posts. Trust me.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



Marcus13 said:


> This is getting better and better.
> 
> I've lost all respect for Chris Paul this off-season


:laugh:

Paul is dong what any of us would have done. 

It hilarious how sports fan blindly defend these owners.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



> *ramonashelburne* _@ramonashelburne_
> Clippers GM: "It was going to hamstring our franchise in the long term. It wasn't just a deal for this season."


What I have been saying all along, but some on here think the Clippers would have made a good move trading their entire team for just CP3. Amazing.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



Ron said:


> What I have been saying all along, but some on here think the Clippers would have made a good move trading their entire team for just CP3. Amazing.


Yeah, parting with non-all stars and bench players on a 32 win team for a MVP caliber player would be pretty devastating for the morale of that team.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



Ron said:


> What I have been saying all along, but some on here think the Clippers would have made a good move trading their entire team for just CP3. Amazing.


yeah, people said the clippers should trade blake griffin, right?

eric gordon just isn't a good enough player to be made untouchable in a deal that brings your team chris paul for at least two seasons.


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*

I wouldn't have done it if I'm the Clippers. They're already in a good position where they've got the pieces in place to be the next OKC Thunder, but in a big market area. The issue wasn't making Eric Gordon available, it was adding him on top of Minny's pick, Bledsoe, Aminu, and Kaman. If it was just Gordon and the pick I could see it. If it was just the pick, Bledsoe, Aminu, and Kaman I could see it. But Gordon and the pick together on top of two young guys and unloading Okafor's contract is too much. It's not like Chris Paul would put them over the top. Paul, Griffin, Butler and Jordan would probably still struggle for a playoff spot. For that reason alone, I would stand pat and hope I could draft the missing piece with the Minny pick or flip it for a cheaper PG or SF. New Orleans needs to trade Paul more than the Clippers need to trade for him.


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*

The Clippers are in good shape to be mediocre for the foreseeable future. They don't have the guts to be contenders I suppose, because if you make this move and then make a couple of good moves after that you are playing for titles. No ****ing way they play for titles in the next five years with the players they have. This is a display of institutional cowardice.


----------



## Basel

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*

The NBA is turning into a joke. Stern sucks. 

:laugh: @ losing respect for Paul. I've lost respect for Stern and the NBA as a whole.


----------



## Seuss

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*

^ . . . . .I've lost respect for myself. I continue to read this thread expecting a trade involving Chris Paul to be official.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



Basel said:


> The NBA is turning into a joke. Stern sucks.
> 
> :laugh: @ losing respect for Paul. I've lost respect for Stern and the NBA as a whole.


So no one should honor their contracts?


----------



## Basel

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



Marc Stein said:


> Just filed w/@Chris_Broussard: Sources close to talks tell ESPN there is renewed momentum to seal @CP3 trade to Clippers as soon as Tueday


...


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



R-Star said:


> So no one should honor their contracts?


has chris paul refused to play for the hornets this season?


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



> .“@ESPNSteinLine: Just filed w/@Chris_Broussard: Sources close to talks tell ESPN there is renewed momentum to seal @CP3 trade to Clippers as soon as Tueday”


..


----------



## Basel

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



R-Star said:


> So no one should honor their contracts?


This doens't make sense given that CP3 has been showing up to training camp, practicing and hasn't said that he wouldn't play for the Hornets.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



Basel said:


> This doens't make sense given that CP3 has been showing up to training camp, practicing and hasn't said that he wouldn't play for the Hornets.


Ummmm... so what's your complaint then? That they won't entertain his behind doors trade demand?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



rocketeer said:


> has chris paul refused to play for the hornets this season?


Who had said he did?


----------



## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*

Clippers just picked up Billups off the amnesty waiver wire.


----------



## Basel

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



R-Star said:


> Ummmm... so what's your complaint then? That they won't entertain his behind doors trade demand?


Well, they're obviously entertaining it but asking for a lot, even though they've been given some good offers for CP3. I think Stern just wants CP3 to stay in NO because it'll be easier selling the team that way.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



Basel said:


> Well, they're obviously entertaining it but asking for a lot, even though they've been given some good offers for CP3. I think Stern just wants CP3 to stay in NO because it'll be easier selling the team that way.


Didn't the Lakers do the exact same thing with Kobe Bryant when he demanded out?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



Basel said:


> Well, they're obviously entertaining it but asking for a lot, even though they've been given some good offers for CP3. I think Stern just wants CP3 to stay in NO because it'll be easier selling the team that way.


So the teams owner is interested in the teams best interest and isn't going to trade is property/employee for a deal that doesn't benefit the team?


And that upsets you?


----------



## Basel

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



R-Star said:


> So the teams owner is interested in the teams best interest and isn't going to trade is property/employee for a deal that doesn't benefit the team?
> 
> 
> And that upsets you?


The team's owner is David Stern and the 29 other owners. The GM was obviously happy and thought the trades were benefiting the Hornets better than other offers. Stern didn't see it that way.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



Basel said:


> The team's owner is David Stern and the 29 other owners. The GM was obviously happy and thought the trades were benefiting the Hornets better than other offers. Stern didn't see it that way.


And Stern should want one of the NBA's top stars to be traded for scraps right?


----------



## Basel

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*

Scraps in your opinion. You think he'd rather CP3 leave in the summer and the Hornets getting nothing in return?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*



Basel said:


> Scraps in your opinion. You think he'd rather CP3 leave in the summer and the Hornets getting nothing in return?


You think he, and the majority of the owners, would like players under contract to quit acting like they can dictate who and where they want to play for while still under contract?

Its almost like thats whats happening right now.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



Bogg said:


> Didn't the Lakers do the exact same thing with Kobe Bryant when he demanded out?


True, but Kobe was under contract for the next two years. Dr. Buess had no reason to deal him since Kobe didn't have any leverage.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



R-Star said:


> So the teams owner is interested in the teams best interest and isn't going to trade is property/employee for a deal that doesn't benefit the team?
> 
> 
> And that upsets you?


You calling a black man property/employee is probably the only part that I done agree with in your statement. The laker deal was a bad trade. It's so-so if you want to stay where you are for a year, but after two years the Hornets would be back to being a lottery team only spending more money to do so.


----------



## Ben

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*



Basel said:


> Scraps in your opinion. You think he'd rather CP3 leave in the summer and the Hornets getting nothing in return?


Meh. For me, I'd rather be like Cleveland and start over basically from scratch, than be stuck in mediocrity.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



Hyperion said:


> You calling a black man property/employee is probably the only part that I done agree with in your statement. The laker deal was a bad trade. It's so-so if you want to stay where you are for a year, but after two years the Hornets would be back to being a lottery team only spending more money to do so.


Ha. The race card.

Mike Miller is under the same rules as Chris Paul. Anyone with a contract in Wall Street America are under the same rules as Chris Paul. 

So no. Chris Paul is the property of the NO Hornets. If he doesnt like it, he can find a job that doesn't require a contract.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



Game3525 said:


> True, but Kobe was under contract for the next two years. Dr. Buess had no reason to deal him since Kobe didn't have any leverage.


......and the NBA still has until March to find a more suitable deal for Paul. _Of course_ they're going to ask for a premium to get Paul in during training camp while they still have a few months to shop for a better trade and better gauge how serious Paul is about leaving the money on the table. I mean, Luol Deng, Ben Gordon, Joakim Noah, and Tyrus Thomas four years ago is a sight better than Kevin Martin, Scola, and Odom all on the second half of their careers.


----------



## Basel

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



Bogg said:


> ......and the NBA still has until March to find a more suitable deal for Paul. _Of course_ they're going to ask for a premium to get Paul in during training camp while they still have a few months to shop for a better trade and better gauge how serious Paul is about leaving the money on the table. I mean, Luol Deng, Ben Gordon, Joakim Noah, and Tyrus Thomas four years ago is a sight better than Kevin Martin, Scola, and Odom all on the second half of their careers.


Kobe Bryant 4 years ago was also better than Chris Paul is now.


----------



## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*

Gotta stop taking the word "property" so literally in these circumstances. They own the contract, that's all that needs to be said.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



Basel said:


> Kobe Bryant 4 years ago was also better than Chris Paul is now.


Agreed. Fact remains, Stern and the owners biding their time looking for the most favorable offer is awfully reminiscent of the Lakers refusing Kobe's trade demand because they couldn't put together a deal they liked.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*



HKF said:


> Gotta stop taking the word "property" so literally in these circumstances. They own the contract, that's all that needs to be said.


Nope. Any time someone says property, it has to be equated to black slavery. Otherwise, how would half the sports writers and journalists stay employed?


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



Bogg said:


> ......and the NBA still has until March to find a more suitable deal for Paul. _Of course_ they're going to ask for a premium to get Paul in during training camp while they still have a few months to shop for a better trade and better gauge how serious Paul is about leaving the money on the table. I mean, Luol Deng, Ben Gordon, Joakim Noah, and Tyrus Thomas four years ago is a sight better than Kevin Martin, Scola, and Odom all on the second half of their careers.


They aren't going get any better offers in March. The Clippers have capspace in 2012 correct?

They are better off just waiting.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



Game3525 said:


> They aren't going get any better offers in March.


You don't know that





Game3525 said:


> The Clippers have capspace in 2012 correct?


After Deandre Jordan's extension, Caron Butler's contract, and Eric Gordon's imminent extension? Probably not, actually.




Game3525 said:


> They are better off just waiting.


Which is what they're doing


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*

They will when they amnesty Williams next season...


----------



## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*

I have zero doubt that Donald Sterling will never use the amnesty. That man is a cheap bastard.


----------



## Game3525

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



Bogg said:


> You don't know that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After Deandre Jordan's extension, Caron Butler's contract, and Eric Gordon's imminent extension? Probably not, actually.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is what they're doing



Oh please, what team is going to want Paul that late in the season? The Hornets best option was always to trade him as soon as possible, they aren't going to get any mean fully offers for him that late into the season. If the Clippers have cap space(which I believe they will....), they will just wait, as would Boston, and the Warriors aren't going to trade for someone who doesn't have any intentions of staying there once the season ends.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



R-Star said:


> Ha. The race card.
> 
> Mike Miller is under the same rules as Chris Paul. Anyone with a contract in Wall Street America are under the same rules as Chris Paul.
> 
> So no. Chris Paul is the property of the NO Hornets. If he doesnt like it, he can find a job that doesn't require a contract.


Dammit, get distracted!


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



R-Star said:


> Who had said he did?


you made the comment about people needing to honor their contracts. paul is honoring his.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*

Trade talks involving Chris Paul between the Clippers and Hornets are back on, according to sources.

The Clippers are offering Chris Kaman, Al-Farouq Aminu and the Hornets' choice between Eric Gordon and the 2012 first round pick from the Wolves.

After the Clippers walked away from talks, sources said the NBA was trying to*salvage*the discussions.

The NBA remains "hopeful," according to the source, that Paul's fate can resolved "soon."

One source said the NBA is motivated to get a deal completed by Tuesday.

Paul told the Clippers he would invoke the 2012-13 option in his contract as part of the trade, which would guarantee that he would be paired with Blake Griffin for at least two seasons.

"The league has no choice," said a source to Ken Berger. "They have nowhere else to go."

Via Chris Broussard/ESPN (via Twitter


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



rocketeer said:


> you made the comment about people needing to honor their contracts. paul is honoring his.


So your issue, and reason for posting in this thread is?


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



R-Star said:


> So your issue, and reason for posting in this thread is?


at the moment, i was questioning why you made that statement.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



rocketeer said:


> at the moment, i was questioning why you made that statement.


Because he asked for a trade and people are up in arms that the Hornets won't take it up the ass to accommodate him?


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*

Paul told the Hornets he did not intend to remain there when his player option comes up at the end of the season. That is in his contract.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



R-Star said:


> Because he asked for a trade and people are up in arms that the Hornets won't take it up the ass to accommodate him?


people are up in arms because the nba royally ****ed the situation up. they put a guy in charge of the team as gm and gave him control to avoid a conflict of interest. then they vetoed his trade(because other owners didn't like the lakers getting paul), essentially stripped him of all power, and are running the team on their own in a massive conflict of interest. that is what has people pissed.

and it still doesn't make any sense for you to make a comment suggesting that paul isn't honoring his contract.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



rocketeer said:


> people are up in arms because the nba royally ****ed the situation up. they put a guy in charge of the team as gm and gave him control to avoid a conflict of interest. then they vetoed his trade(because other owners didn't like the lakers getting paul), essentially stripped him of all power, and are running the team on their own in a massive conflict of interest. that is what has people pissed.
> 
> and it still doesn't make any sense for you to make a comment suggesting that paul isn't honoring his contract.


It still doesn't? How? You don't think the GM's are tired of players trying to dictate where they play? Are guys like you honestly that dense? Its an honest question. I can't wrap my head around it.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*

The Hornets could lose Chris Paul for nothing in free agency. If they trade him though, then they guarantee that they've lost him. And if they trade him for that abysmal Clippers package without Gordon, then they guarantee that they've lost him for what amounts to just a little bit more than nothing.

Is it really such a certainly that a 26 year old player with a bum knee walks away from over thirty million dollars (or much more if he wants to go to a team over the cap) just to play with his butt-buddies for a few years? I'm not so sure about that. And who has the cap space to sign him anyway? The Clippers won't. The Lakers don't. The Knicks don't. Just the Mavs? Which teams will go into cap-clearing mode for a chance to sign Paul next summer and which one of those teams will even be attractive to Paul?

As for the proposed trade...Bledsoe, Aminu, and Kaman are meaningless and there is no certainty that the Minnesota pick will be that good either. What if the Wolves make a playoff run? Stranger things have happened and the Western Conference is awful right now. What if they make an in-season trade to propel themselves out of the lottery? They have plenty of assets. What if they do stay a lottery team but the ball bounces the wrong way? 

No way do I do that trade if it doesn't include both Gordon and the pick. Either I get both or I force Paul to make a choice. Stay and make as much money as possible or have limited options in free agency and leave for significantly less.


----------



## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*

I think I would take Gordon and not the pick. Because as has been mentioned Adelman tends to get the most out of his teams, so they might finish as 8-10 worse, which is still a good pick in this draft, but I'd rather have Gordon first.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



Game3525 said:


> Oh please, what team is going to want Paul that late in the season? The Hornets best option was always to trade him as soon as possible, they aren't going to get any mean fully offers for him that late into the season. If the Clippers have cap space(which I believe they will....), they will just wait, as would Boston, and the Warriors aren't going to trade for someone who doesn't have any intentions of staying there once the season ends.


A)Chris Paul will be trade-able at any point this season, barring major injury, provided he'll opt-in to his contract next year(which is a sticking point now, anyway)

B)Between the 10 or 11 million they'll be paying Deandre Jordan, the 8ish million they'll be paying Butler, and the 13 to 15 they'll have to pay out to retain Eric Gordon, plus cap holds and such, Paul will likely have to take a pay cut to sign outright with the Clippers. 

C) We still don't know that Paul's actually willing to take that pay cut to walk without the extension.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



R-Star said:


> It still doesn't? How? You don't think the GM's are tired of players trying to dictate where they play? Are guys like you honestly that dense? Its an honest question. I can't wrap my head around it.


Don't mind rocketeer, he's still bitter that Houston wasn't able to turn Pepsi Scola and Little K-Mart into Pau Gasol when the other owners objected to paying $60 million to finance Jerry Buss' dream of Howard and Paul.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



rocketeer said:


> people are up in arms because the nba royally ****ed the situation up. they put a guy in charge of the team as gm and gave him control to avoid a conflict of interest. then they vetoed his trade*(because other owners didn't like the lakers getting paul)*, essentially stripped him of all power, and are running the team on their own in a massive conflict of interest. that is what has people pissed.\


That was a nice, neat narrative over the weekend, but it's since become clear that the owners aren't going to take on any significant salary commitments and are asking for much, much more in return than people had previously thought. The idea that Paul would be able to pick a team and they'd get him for 60 cents on the dollar went up in smoke when Stern intervened(and, for the record, that wasn't a great trade).


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



Bogg said:


> A)Chris Paul will be trade-able at any point this season, barring major injury, provided he'll opt-in to his contract next year(which is a sticking point now, anyway)
> 
> B)Between the 10 or 11 million they'll be paying Deandre Jordan, the 8ish million they'll be paying Butler, and the 13 to 15 they'll have to pay out to retain Eric Gordon, plus cap holds and such, Paul will likely have to take a pay cut to sign outright with the Clippers.
> 
> C) We still don't know that Paul's actually willing to take that pay cut to walk without the extension.


That's only 33-35 million...Kaman, Foye, Cook will be of the books next year plus u can amnesty Williams...everyone else would still be on there rookie contracts...Salary Cap is 58-60 Million I believe...more than enough to sign a max contract...


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



E.H. Munro said:


> Don't mind rocketeer, he's still bitter that Houston wasn't able to turn Pepsi Scola and Little K-Mart into Pau Gasol when the other owners objected to paying $60 million to finance Jerry Buss' dream of Howard and Paul.


lol. i've said all along that it was an awful trade for the rockets.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



R-Star said:


> It still doesn't? How? You don't think the GM's are tired of players trying to dictate where they play? Are guys like you honestly that dense? Its an honest question. I can't wrap my head around it.


desirable players at the end of their contracts will always be able to dictate where they play. doesn't matter what gms or owners want.

and when paul starts being a no show for obligations he has to the hornets, then talk of him not honoring his contract will be legitimate. telling the team he doesn't plan to sign a new contract with them after his current one expires is something that he will always be able to do.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



NOFX22 said:


> That's only 33-35 million...Kaman, Foye, Cook will be of the books next year plus u can amnesty Williams...everyone else would still be on there rookie contracts...Salary Cap is 58-60 Million I believe...more than enough to sign a max contract...


They're committed to $24 million in contracts next year. The 33-35 in additional salary brings them up into the mid to upper fifties. Amnestying Williams drops them to around fifty, maybe the upper forties. Factor in all the cap holds for unfilled roster spots and Paul's not looking at a max contract. They could get really creative dumping salary over the next year(read: using Aminu or Bledsoe as a bribe for eating Gomes' contract) and maybe make it work, but it's not like they're going to be able to offer a max contract with no problem. All that assumes Paul's willing to walk.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> What if the Wolves make a playoff run? Stranger things have happened and the Western Conference is awful right now.


what league have you been watching?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



rocketeer said:


> desirable players at the end of their contracts will always be able to dictate where they play. doesn't matter what gms or owners want.
> 
> and when paul starts being a no show for obligations he has to the hornets, then talk of him not honoring his contract will be legitimate. telling the team he doesn't plan to sign a new contract with them after his current one expires is something that he will always be able to do.


Will always be able to dictate where they play? Why is this thread open then? What are we talking about in this thread?


Do you think, at all, before posting?


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*



rocketeer said:


> what league have you been watching?


The West is a joke right now. Do you think the Spurs are going to play .700 ball again? The Lakers just lost the 6th Man of the Year for nothing. The Mavs lost their interior defense (albeit I really like their moves so far). The Nuggets lost their entire team to China. The Hornets, obviously, are a mess. Portland is continuing to have injury problems. Oklahoma City and Memphis are still there, but look at how much worse the West has gotten. It's not that crazy.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



Bogg said:


> They're committed to $24 million in contracts next year. The 33-35 in additional salary brings them up into the mid to upper fifties. Amnestying Williams drops them to around fifty, maybe the upper forties. Factor in all the cap holds for unfilled roster spots and Paul's not looking at a max contract. They could get really creative dumping salary over the next year(read: using Aminu or Bledsoe as a bribe for eating Gomes' contract) and maybe make it work, but it's not like they're going to be able to offer a max contract with no problem. All that assumes Paul's willing to walk.


Or Amnesty Williams this year since they signed Billups and amnesty Gomes next year...and isn't Williams making 15 Mill next season? Cuz I remember reading next season clippers will have 18 mill under the cap


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



R-Star said:


> Will always be able to dictate where they play? Why is this thread open then? What are we talking about in this thread?
> 
> 
> Do you think, at all, before posting?


after the season, he can go wherever he wants.

for this year, what team is going to trade for him without him at least picking up his player option to ensure them two seasons? 

so yes, he absolutely can dictate where he plays. and that will always be the case because teams aren't going to give up value for a player who will just walk away within a year.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*



GrandKenyon6 said:


> The West is a joke right now. Do you think the Spurs are going to play .700 ball again? The Lakers just lost the 6th Man of the Year for nothing. The Mavs lost their interior defense (albeit I really like their moves so far). The Nuggets lost their entire team to China. The Hornets, obviously, are a mess. Portland is continuing to have injury problems. Oklahoma City and Memphis are still there, but look at how much worse the West has gotten. It's not that crazy.


minnesota won like 17 games last year. there were 9 teams in the west over .500. minnesota even getting into the playoff conversation without significant roster moves would be absolutely crazy.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



rocketeer said:


> after the season, he can go wherever he wants.
> 
> for this year, what team is going to trade for him without him at least picking up his player option to ensure them two seasons?
> 
> so yes, he absolutely can dictate where he plays. and that will always be the case because teams aren't going to give up value for a player who will just walk away within a year.


That's what you meant by he can dictate? **** off with trying to weasel out with semantics.

No one is buying that by the way.


----------



## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*

You can use amnesty only once. I am not sure why you think Donald Sterling is just going to waive people to not pay them. It runs completely counter clockwise to how he's done business ever.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



R-Star said:


> That's what you meant by he can dictate? **** off with trying to weasel out with semantics.
> 
> No one is buying that by the way.


oh man. you going to admit that you were wrong for suggesting the paul wasn't honoring his contract? i assume not.

and i'm not weaseling out of anything. though apparently i had to explain what i meant even though it should have been pretty obvious.

as for no one buying it, who cares? it's the truth. desirable players get to pick where they go. they get to say "i'm only willing to resign with these teams so don't bother trading for him if you aren't on the list" to control where they go. owners can not like it all they want, but do you think that is ever going to change?


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



NOFX22 said:


> Or Amnesty Williams this year since they signed Billups and amnesty Gomes next year...and isn't Williams making 15 Mill next season? Cuz I remember reading next season clippers will have 18 mill under the cap


You can only use the amnesty once, it's not a once-a-year thing. Williams is making around 8 million next year. The Clippers will be something like that amount under the cap, but that's because this is the last year of Eric Gordon's rookie deal. If giving Paul a max deal requires letting Gordon walk, you might as well throw Gordon in the trade now.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*



HKF said:


> You can use amnesty only once.* I am not sure why you think Donald Sterling is just going to waive people to not pay them. It runs completely counter clockwise to how he's done business ever.*


Also, this.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



rocketeer said:


> oh man. you going to admit that you were wrong for suggesting the paul wasn't honoring his contract? i assume not.
> 
> and i'm not weaseling out of anything. though apparently i had to explain what i meant even though it should have been pretty obvious.
> 
> as for no one buying it, who cares? it's the truth. desirable players get to pick where they go. they get to say "i'm only willing to resign with these teams so don't bother trading for him if you aren't on the list" to control where they go. owners can not like it all they want, but do you think that is ever going to change?


It was quite obvious you meant star players can say "**** you boss, I want to play in Miami." 

No one is going to listen to some dumb **** who doesn't even capitalize his i's.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*



HKF said:


> You can use amnesty only once. I am not sure why you think Donald Sterling is just going to waive people to not pay them. It runs completely counter clockwise to how he's done business ever.


No no no. Sterling has always shown he's willing to spend as much as possible to build a contender.


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*

What is this thread? The west is weak? The wolves could be playoff contenders? the clippers shouldn't trade both the pick and gordon for paul, but should switch and give them gordon plus their future pick.

Edit: paul can make more under this new cba by opting out. So, yeah, he's more than helping out NO


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*



Hyperion said:


> What is this thread? The west is weak? The wolves could be playoff contenders? the clippers shouldn't trade both the pick and gordon for paul, but should switch and give them gordon plus their future pick.


:laugh:


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



R-Star said:


> It was quite obvious you meant star players can say "**** you boss, I want to play in Miami."
> 
> No one is going to listen to some dumb **** who doesn't even capitalize his i's.


obviously...


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



rocketeer said:


> obviously...


Yea, it is obvious. Who do you think you're ****ing kidding here?


"Oh, I meant that in the future once they're done their contracts and junk they could sign with whatever team they like." 

Oh. You mean kind of like every single ****ing FA in the history of every single sport?


Again. Who do you think you're ****ing kidding?


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*

What I don't get is why they signed Billups and still going after Paul? I'd rather have combination at the point with Bledsoe, Billups, and Williams than just Paul


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*



NOFX22 said:


> What I don't get is why they signed Billups and still going after Paul? I'd rather have combination at the point with Bledsoe, Billups, and Williams than just Paul


I hope you're kidding.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers for Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 and possibly Bledsoe on the tabl*

*Here we go again...Clippers, Hornets re-open Paul trade talks*

Heard the same thing on local radio a couple of hours ago...Kaman, Aminu, and Minnesota's no. 1 pick for CP3. No other players were mentioned.

However, I have to believe Bledsoe will also be thrown into the deal.


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers for Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 and possibly Bledsoe on the tabl*

If the above trade goes through (and I'm not 100% it will with the way this entire thing has been playing out), than that is exactly why you don't just cave into demands. Why give up Gordon if you don't have to? If you're willing to or not is almost irrelevant, why wouldn't you try and optimize the value of your assets?


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



R-Star said:


> Yea, it is obvious. Who do you think you're ****ing kidding here?
> 
> 
> "Oh, I meant that in the future once they're done their contracts and junk they could sign with whatever team they like."
> 
> Oh. You mean kind of like every single ****ing FA in the history of every single sport?
> 
> 
> Again. Who do you think you're ****ing kidding?


sigh.



rocketeer said:


> *desirable players at the end of their contracts* will always be able to dictate where they play. doesn't matter what gms or owners want.


yep, you're right. i'm just making shit up as i go. it's not like i qualified my initial statement when i made it. it's not my fault i can't read this shit for you.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



rocketeer said:


> sigh.
> 
> 
> 
> yep, you're right. i'm just making shit up as i go. it's not like i qualified my initial statement when i made it. it's not my fault i can't read this shit for you.


Except.... that wasn't your initial statement you just quoted, was it?


Back to the drawing board.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers for Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 and possibly Bledsoe on the tabl*



BlakeJesus said:


> If the above trade goes through (and I'm not 100% it will with the way this entire thing has been playing out), than that is exactly why you don't just cave into demands. Why give up Gordon if you don't have to? If you're willing to or not is almost irrelevant, why wouldn't you try and optimize the value of your assets?


the clippers aren't doing anything wrong at this point. if it gets to the point where another team is making an offer and the league is demanding the clippers involve eric gordon in the deal and the clippers refuse, then they will have messed up.


----------



## Kidd

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers for Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 and possibly Bledsoe on the tabl*

I've stopped following the developments, this is wtf status now.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



R-Star said:


> Except.... that wasn't your initial statement you just quoted, was it?
> 
> 
> Back to the drawing board.


oh yeah. i said something else a while back when you weren't involved in the conversation. let's check it.



rocketeer said:


> the thing is the league can't stop chris paul from dictating where he goes. if he tells a team you won't sign an extension or even pick up his player option to guarantee a 2nd year, they aren't going to give up anything good enough to actually get him.


aw, that's too bad rstar. looks like i was specifically talking about chris paul and how it relates to him being at the end of his contract.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*



Dissonance said:


> I hope you're kidding.


Nope! Give me a former finals mvp, who hits big shots, a great leader and would be a great mentor for Eric Bledsoe! M Williams is another steady pg who's a very good perimeter shooter and can play the finals mins if Billups speed is an issue...with these two guys mentoring Bledsoe, no doubt he would become a great player! He already showed signs of brilliance with his speed, athleticism,shooting, passing skills, and defense...


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*



NOFX22 said:


> Nope! Give me a former finals mvp, who hits big shots, a great leader and would be a great mentor for Eric Bledsoe! M Williams is another steady pg who's a very good perimeter shooter and can play the finals mins if Billups speed is an issue...with these two guys mentoring Bledsoe, no doubt he would become a great player! He already showed signs of brilliance with his speed, athleticism,shooting, passing skills, and defense...


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: NBA Inoconsolable about being left at the CP3 alter, Clippers: "It's Over*



rocketeer said:


> oh yeah. i said something else a while back when you weren't involved in the conversation. let's check it.
> 
> 
> 
> aw, that's too bad rstar. looks like i was specifically talking about chris paul and how it relates to him being at the end of his contract.


And he's dictated his contract? Kind of looks like he hasn't to me. Has he been traded and no one told me?


----------



## Damian Necronamous

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers for Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 and possibly Bledsoe on the tabl*

How can the NBA trade Chris Paul for Chris Kaman, Al-Farouq Aminu and a draft pick after causing the chaos that they have so far? They will have come out with a far worse deal than the earlier trade with Houston and LA, and will have ruined two other franchises chances for this season in the process.

That being said, if I'm the Clippers then I'd definitely trade all of Gordon, Bledsoe, Aminu, Kaman and the Wolves' pick for Paul. Why?

Chris Paul...Mo Williams
Chauncey Billups...Randy Foye
Caron Butler...Ryan Gomes
Blake Griffin
DeAndre Jordan

You sign guys to one-year deals to fill out the 2011-2012 roster. Next year, getting rid of Ryan Gomes is the key. If the Clippers unload his contract, they go in with Chris Paul, Caron Butler, Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan under contract (after using the amnesty on Mo Williams) and $15m in cap space.


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers talks revived*



NOFX22 said:


> Nope! Give me a former finals mvp, who hits big shots, a great leader and would be a great mentor for Eric Bledsoe! M Williams is another steady pg who's a very good perimeter shooter and can play the finals mins if Billups speed is an issue...with these two guys mentoring Bledsoe, no doubt he would become a great player! He already showed signs of brilliance with his speed, athleticism,shooting, passing skills, and defense...


*** unnecessary ***

May as well trade Blake Griffin for 1 has been and 2 nobodies then. Better than 1superstar right?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers for Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 and possibly Bledsoe on the tabl*

I told you to stay out of my way dissonance.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers for Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 and possibly Bledsoe on the tabl*

Clippers biggest issue was unsteady play at the pg and sf position...we got that now with Billups and Butler...This team is ready as is...


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers for Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 and possibly Bledsoe on the tabl*



R-Star said:


> I told you to stay out of my way dissonance.


That was me, and you need to cool it...there is no reason to get personal on this main board...why don't you knock off the bullshit and petty personal attacks and actually discuss basketball?


----------



## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers for Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 and possibly Bledsoe on the tabl*



Ron said:


> That was me, and you need to cool it...there is no reason to get personal on this main board...why don't you knock off the bullshit and petty personal attacks and actually discuss basketball?


No. I post my way. 

We both know the alternative. Your call.


----------



## ChosenFEW

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers for Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 and possibly Bledsoe on the tabl*

who blinks first?


I would say R-star, but i think he was born without eyelids. Dude is a savage lol.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers for Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 and possibly Bledsoe on the tabl*



ChosenFEW said:


> who blinks first?
> 
> 
> I would say R-star, but i think he was born without eyelids. Dude is a savage lol.


R-Star doesn't need to blink at all.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers for Kaman/Aminu/Minn. #1 and possibly Bledsoe on the tabl*

The Clippers' trade talks for Chris Paul died again late on Monday, according to a source.

When given permission to speak with Paul, the point guard expressed excitement to the Clippers about playing with Eric Gordon and the potential of having a high first round pick from the Wolves, say sources.

The Clippers are concerned that surrendering both of those assets would compromise their ability to retain Paul in the long-term.

The Hornets and Clippers have held discussions that are built around Chris Kaman, Eric Bledsoe, Al-Farouq Aminu, along with Gordon and the 2012 pick from Minnesota.

Sources say the Clippers are resisting giving up Gordon and that management has promised they won't include him in any deal for Paul. If he is retained, the team is hoping to sign him to a long-term extension.

Further complicating the situation is that many people around the league are skeptical of the NBA's true intentions on whether they actually want to trade Paul. The concern is that the NBA may be trying to protect themselves against legal liability by publicly attempting to trade Paul after they vetoed a deal last week involving the Lakers.

Via Adrian Wojnarowski, Marc J. Spears/Yahoo! Sports


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers deal has died a second time; NBA wants too much*

I wasn't giving up Gordon in any deal either.I'm glad the Clippers are standing strong right now. With the addition of Butler and Billups they're a playoff contender and it's not a stretch to say that they could be in the West finals


----------



## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers deal has died a second time; NBA wants too much*

From 13th to the Conference Finals? Nope, nope, nope.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers deal has died a second time; NBA wants too much*



Spaceman Spiff said:


> I wasn't giving up Gordon in any deal either.I'm glad the Clippers are standing strong right now. With the addition of Butler and Billups they're a playoff contender and it's not a stretch to say that they could be in the West finals


Without this deal:

PG Chauncey/Mo/Bledsoe
SG Gordon/Foye/Warren
SF Butler/Aminu
PF Griffin/Gomes
C Jordan/Kaman

That team would be around a 6th or 7th seed with a real chance of winning a playoff series depending on match-up.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers deal has died a second time; NBA wants too much*

why don't the Clippers use the same package to go after Dwight? If I had to choose between Paul and Dwight it's really no comparison. Gordon/Aminu/Kaman/minny pick is way better than the rumored Brook Lopez + pick package.

A starting lineup of

Dwight/Griffin/Butler/Billups/scrub is as good as any in the West.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers deal has died a second time; NBA wants too much*

Dwight hasn't given any indication that he would play for the clips and sign that extension unlike Paul


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers deal has died a second time; NBA wants too much*



RollWithEm said:


> Without this deal:
> 
> PG Chauncey/Mo/Bledsoe
> SG Gordon/Foye/Warren
> SF Butler/Aminu
> PF Griffin/Gomes
> C Jordan/Kaman
> 
> That team would be around a 6th or 7th seed with a real chance of winning a playoff series depending on match-up.


kinda sad in the east they would be a 2 seed


----------



## King Joseus

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers deal has died a second time; NBA wants too much*

Bulls and Heat laugh at that thought.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: CP3 to Clippers deal has died a second time; NBA wants too much*

That team is still lottery or borderline playoff team. Quit overrating their talent outside of Blake and maybe Gordon. Basically, you're not a threat and not going nearly as far as you can as you would with CP3. 

Billups also isn't the same and Butler's usually good for an injury.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands*



> Despite expressed interest from the NBA in reviving talks for a possible trade of Chris Paul, the Los Angeles Clippers are still waiting for the league to lower its demands for the New Orleans Hornets point guard, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.
> All Chris Paul can do is sit and wait as the league office appears to be running the show in trade talks.
> (Getty Images)
> 
> Clippers officials and NBA executives representing the Hornets have continued to have conversations, but the tone and substance of the talks has dramatically changed with L.A.’s addition of point guard Chauncey Billups, sources said. The Clippers are selling the NBA on the idea that the market for Paul has shrunk and the league’s demands have to be lowered, too.
> 
> For the talks to gather significant momentum again, the Clippers want the NBA to return with a far more modest proposal of what they want for Paul.
> 
> “They’re scrambling now,” one official said of the NBA. “But it’s still hard to tell if they really want to trade him, or they’re just determined to keep the asking price in a place where they can hold onto him for the next owner. …These guys in New York had no idea how hard this process would be.”
> 
> The Clippers are waiting for the NBA to return with far reduced demands, or they’ll simply start the season with an improved, playoff-ready roster. Clippers officials believe the NBA has to drop its asking price for Paul significantly with the acquisition of Billups, because there’s no urgency for Los Angeles to uproot its core for Paul for possibly only a season or two – not when the Clippers could have the salary-cap space to sign Paul in free agency after the season.
> 
> The Clippers could be willing to give the Hornets a future first-round pick, sources said, but they’re enthralled with the idea of the unprotected 2012 first-round pick they acquired from the Minnesota Timberwolves possibly turning into an Anthony Davis of Kentucky or a Harrison Barnes of North Carolina. The Clippers remain resistant to the thought of surrendering both that pick and shooting guard Eric Gordon in a package.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...YF?slug=aw-hornets_clippers_paul_trade_121211


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands*

Marc Stein is saying that the Lakers are back in the mix, but I don't really see how they can turn Gasol plus garbage into Paul. Kupchak would have to transform himself into the Gandalf before he could manage that sort of trick.


----------



## Hibachi!

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*

Yeah if they wouldn't take Pau and Odom, what makes them think they'd take just Pau? Or just Bynum?


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*

At this point I just wish this would come to an end somehow.


----------



## CavsNut96

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*

The Clippers in my mind will make the playoffs its just how much better will they get Ofcourse other teams on the rise are memphis okc sacramento the clippers don't need to make any moves but thier in the market and thier front office mangement is much better than it was a few years ago


----------



## Basel

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*

This all is getting ridiculous now.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*

So what happens if the NBA rejects yet another Lakers' offer for CP3?

Jim Buss ships Kobe off to Miami for a case of orange juice?


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*



Ron said:


> So what happens if the NBA rejects yet another Lakers' offer for CP3?
> 
> Jim Buss ships Kobe off to Miami for a case of orange juice?


If he's smart he'll hold out for the equivalent amount of whole oranges. After all, oranges can eventually be any product made from oranges, but the juice can only be juice and juice-derived products. In a full post-Kobe rebuild, flexibility is going to be key.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*

I'm thinking the NBA/Hornets are using us as leverage against the Clips...


----------



## CavsNut96

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*

He will not be traded the league has sent that messege very clearly to the other teams and that appears to be the way its going to be. NOLA gets srewed and we all move on. I am not going to take Dan Gilberts side on this.


----------



## Kidd

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*



Bogg said:


> If he's smart he'll hold out for the equivalent amount of whole oranges. After all, oranges can eventually be any product made from oranges, but the juice can only be juice and juice-derived products. In a full post-Kobe rebuild, flexibility is going to be key.


But you're not thinking about the resources that will be required to juice the oranges yourself if you end up wanting the juice anyway... after all what else can you make from oranges? The case of juice + expirings is the right move imho.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*


----------



## JNice

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*

If Clips manage to secure CP3 ... do they (or you, if you are Clips) try to work a deal to score Dwight for a package involving Blake? CP3 + Blake could be very good. CP3 + Dwight would be very good. And getting a guy like Blake might be something Orlando would be willing to think about if Dwight really wants to leave.


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*



JNice said:


> If Clips manage to secure CP3 ... do they (or you, if you are Clips) try to work a deal to score Dwight for a package involving Blake? CP3 + Blake could be very good. CP3 + Dwight would be very good. And getting a guy like Blake might be something Orlando would be willing to think about if Dwight really wants to leave.


That's what I was wondering about 80 pages ago. It's definitely something to think about.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*

You guys are continually forgetting that D12 has tied Orlando's hands and *won't sign an extension with anyone other than* the Nets, Lakers, Mavs, or Magic!


----------



## GrandKenyon6

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*

You think he's really going to say no to a Clippers team with Chris Paul on it? I sure as hell don't.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*



Hibachi! said:


> Yeah if they wouldn't take Pau and Odom, what makes them think they'd take just Pau? Or just Bynum?


maybe we find out that to Stern the 'basketball reasons' equal picks and cash instead of a reigning 6th man of the year? I mean you offer a 2nd team all NBA PF and the 6th man of the year and you get snubbed? we're past looney tunes as it is so anything could be the answer


----------



## roux

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*

i officially dont care about this anymore till i actually see chris paul put on a new uniform


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*

Howard almost has to want to go any place where he can play with Paul. It seems pretty obvious that NJ is on the list because of Deron, but the Clippers with Paul is a better situation for him. If the Magic had not totally ****ed up their situation they would be right in the middle of this for obvious reasons. The only reason you don't hear anything about them trying to get Paul is that they have no assets anyone would want except Howard.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*

there is no way that Paul is worth everything Stern is asking for from the Clippers - its like after all this time he has no idea about basketball talent but regardless he's using his power to make the deal he wants - i did this as a gm playing 2k2011

he's like the dorkiest fan boy in the world but with a gun


----------



## Duck

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*

I don't think Dwight Howard really really cares about the whole point guard situation right this second. His team list of Nets, Lakers, and Mavs are all teams that are proven to do whatever it takes to win (Nets have an owner who says that he'll write big checks)


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


>


.
.
.








.
.
.
.
.
.


----------



## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*

I don't know the Nets really don't have what it takes in my mind because Billy King is the GM and he's terrible.


----------



## Hibachi!

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*


----------



## Free Arsenal

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*

Hmm.. I honestly don't want CP3 deal to go through if it includes Gordon. I mean sure Gordon has had injuries, but look at it this way, CP3 for 2 years is no way as good as keeping Gordon for 5 or 6 years, now with reports that Gordon does in fact want an extension.

Clippers also just picked up Billups, and have Williams (although he heavily benefited by playing alongside Lebron). I believe the team as is, provided there aren't major injuries this shortened season are a lock for the playoffs.


----------



## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*

The Clippers fans sure do seem to be easily satisfied. Paul has already made the playoffs without much help and he could make the playoffs in New Orleans if that was all he wanted to do, even though that team has no roster. That's a piss poor ambition for a franchise. If you want to win 37 games and go out in the first round you don't need great players for that.


----------



## Seuss

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*

The Clippers are the ones holding the winning hand. They need to be a little more gutsy and say "take it or leave it". Because every NBA fan knows that the NO's aren't going to find a worthy deal for Paul than what they Clips are offering.


----------



## seifer0406

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*



Seuss said:


> The Clippers are the ones holding the winning hand. They need to be a little more gutsy and say "take it or leave it". Because every NBA fan knows that the NO's aren't going to find a worthy deal for Paul than what they Clips are offering.


Exactly. The need for New Orleans to trade Paul is much greater than the need for the Clippers to acquire Paul. As long as the Clippers have the best offer out there, theres no need for them to listen to the Hornets demands because the Hornets have no other options. It's only downhill from here for the Hornets. The longer you hold on to Paul the less value he has because of his upcoming free agency.


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*



JNice said:


> If Clips manage to secure CP3 ... do they (or you, if you are Clips) try to work a deal to score Dwight for a package involving Blake? CP3 + Blake could be very good. CP3 + Dwight would be very good. And getting a guy like Blake might be something Orlando would be willing to think about if Dwight really wants to leave.


Absolutely not.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*



Diable said:


> The Clippers fans sure do seem to be easily satisfied. Paul has already made the playoffs without much help and he could make the playoffs in New Orleans if that was all he wanted to do, even though that team has no roster. That's a piss poor ambition for a franchise. If you want to win 37 games and go out in the first round you don't need great players for that.


It's all about the asking price, though. Chris Paul is not, or will not be, the only good point guard available. If you have to trade everyone of consequence but Blake and Jordan to get Paul, or you can trade significantly less to get a second-tier point guard like Rondo(who's locked into a four-year deal), you're probably better off taking the second deal.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*



CavsNut96 said:


> NOLA gets srewed and we all move on.


Except for me.


----------



## Cris

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*



> Heavy buzz that CP3/Clippers might be going down. Clips staff was just summoned to the office. Trying to get more info.


https://twitter.com/#!/sportsguy33/s...00446027296768


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*

Can't wait for the Hitler reaction video when a Paul deal finally happens.


----------



## TheAnswer

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*

Espn is saying Cp3 to the Clips, principles reached. Eric Gordon, Aminu, Kaman and 1st rounder for 2 future 2nd rounders and Cp3.


----------



## Venom110

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*



> ESPN sources: Clippers and NBA-owned Hornets have agreed to Chris Paul deal in principle. Gordon, Kaman, Aminu and Minnesota pick to Hornets.


@ESPNSteinLine


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: Clippers waiting for NBA to lower CP3 demands, Lakers back in*

Lol @ Gordon and the pick.

Stupid Clippers.


----------



## Cris

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/NBA Hornets have agreed to Chris Paul deal in principle.*

Clippers just paid gold for that trade.


----------



## Hibachi!

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/NBA Hornets have agreed to Chris Paul deal in principle.*

Finally, the ordeal is over. But man did they pay. Wow.


----------



## 29380

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/NBA Hornets have agreed to Chris Paul deal in principle.*

Stern = Executive of the Year


----------



## Maravilla

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/NBA Hornets have agreed to Chris Paul deal in principle*

Clippers better get that extension NOW.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/NBA Hornets have agreed to Chris Paul deal in principle*

Clippers suckered them. It would be extra funny if the T'Wolves made the playoffs.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/NBA Hornets have agreed to Chris Paul deal in principle*

Meh. Gordon/Minnesota pick is good haul for NO's future, but I still like it for Clippers better. EG's not THAT good to stop a trade like this.


----------



## Hibachi!

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/NBA Hornets have agreed to Chris Paul deal in principle*

Billups is going to be PISSED, btw.


----------



## Maravilla

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/NBA Hornets have agreed to Chris Paul deal in principle*

Now when that pick wins the lottery.... just more fuel to the NBA conspiracy theorist's fire.


----------



## Venom110

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/NBA Hornets have agreed to Chris Paul deal in principle*

SMH at the Lakers being used (By the Clippers and the NBA)... Clippers are officially a hotter ticket than the Lakers...


----------



## Kidd

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/NBA Hornets have agreed to Chris Paul deal in principle*

Man the Clips overpaid. Still, the idea of pairing CP3 with Blake Griffin is insane so I can see why they wanted so badly to do it.


----------



## Hibachi!

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/NBA Hornets have agreed to Chris Paul deal in principle*

Not a GREAT deal for the Clippers, but they are going to be real ****ing exciting this year. Jordan, Griffin, and Paul? Get ready for some highlights.


----------



## Kidd

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/NBA Hornets have agreed to Chris Paul deal in principle*

Jordan is basically Chandler of the Hornets from a few seasons ago, the Clippers are going to be the most exciting team to watch.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



> ESPNSteinLine Bledsoe is only one of Clips' top five trade assets hekd out of deal. But CP3 opts in for 2012-13, so Clips assured two years of Blake/CP3


Marc Stein


----------



## Adam

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

Based on the thread where people somehow think Jordan is being overpaid, nobody here knows how good he is, so it's going to be really annoying when he plays well this year and people credit Paul for that.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/NBA Hornets have agreed to Chris Paul deal in principle*



Dissonance said:


> Meh. Gordon/Minnesota pick is good haul for NO's future, but I still like it for Clippers better. EG's not THAT good to stop a trade like this.


yep.

as long as paul has agreed to at least pick up his player option, it's a great deal for the clippers.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

not as good a package as a second team all NBA power forward and the reigning 6th man of the year - I call shenanigans 

Dr Buss should go all Pacino over this league NOW


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



Adam said:


> Based on the thread where people somehow think Jordan is being overpaid, nobody here knows how good he is, so it's going to be really annoying when he plays well this year and people credit Paul for that.


Agreed.

Plus I still don't get where an undersized SG and a draft pick is OVERpaying for Chris Freaking Paul.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



Adam said:


> Based on the thread where people somehow think Jordan is being overpaid, nobody here knows how good he is, so it's going to be really annoying when he plays well this year and people credit Paul for that.


jordan is overpaid. right now he's kwame brown with hands.


----------



## Kidd

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



MemphisX said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Plus I still don't get where an undersized SG and a draft pick is OVERpaying for Chris Freaking Paul.


Relative to his market value it was overpaying.


----------



## HKF

*Re: REPORT: Clippers/NBA Hornets have agreed to Chris Paul deal in principle*



Dissonance said:


> Meh. Gordon/Minnesota pick is good haul for NO's future, but I still like it for Clippers better. EG's not THAT good to stop a trade like this.


THANK YOU!


----------



## Adam

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



rocketeer said:


> jordan is overpaid. right now he's kwame brown with hands.


What a silly thing to say. DeAndre has been #1 or at least top 5 (I believe) in block % and FG% and is a good rebounder. When has Kwame ever been a good finisher or shotblocker?

That's as asinine as saying John Stockton is Travis Best with better court vision.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



e-monk said:


> not as good a package as a second team all NBA power forward and the reigning 6th man of the year - I call shenanigans
> 
> Dr Buss should go all Pacino over this league NOW


:laugh: Oh, please. That deal does nothing for NO's future.


----------



## Cris

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



Adam said:


> What a silly thing to say. DeAndre has been #1 or at least top 5 (I believe) in block % and FG% and is a good rebounder. When has Kwame ever been a good finisher or shotblocker?
> 
> That's as asinine as saying John Stockton is Travis Best with better court vision.


That's because literally EVERY one of his points was from in the paint. 

Not jumping into this debate, but that's the truth.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

If Jordan was out in open market, someone probably would've given him 60M if they could. That would've been a bit much.


----------



## Floods

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

How are neither Bledsoe or Okafor involved? Bledsoe's now stuck behind Paul, Billups and Mo Williams. He'll have to be marketed on potential alone. An Okafor-Kaman swap would have allowed the Hornets to duck out of the last two years of that contract. Very valuable to them given their situation, and I don't think the Clippers would have shot that idea down if it meant hanging on to one of their other assets.


----------



## Adam

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



Cris said:


> That's because literally EVERY one of his points was from in the paint.
> 
> Not jumping into this debate, but that's the truth.


Good. Some people, myself included, think centers shouldn't be pussies who float around the perimeter. Pat Riley has made a pretty good career with that mentality and I agree with it. I see it as a positive the more paint points your center can score and for him to do what big men should do: block shots and finish strong.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

Oh and if Eric Gordon is so freaking good, the Hornets shouldn't suck like everyone assumes they will.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



Adam said:


> What a silly thing to say. DeAndre has been #1 or at least top 5 (I believe) in block % and FG% and is a good rebounder. When has Kwame ever been a good finisher or shotblocker?
> 
> That's as asinine as saying John Stockton is Travis Best with better court vision.


obviously they aren't the same player but they have very similar value on the court. it's all rebounding and defense but jordan can actually catch the ball and dunk it.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



Dissonance said:


> :laugh: Oh, please. That deal does nothing for NO's future.


Exactly. They also will have to overpay Eric Gordon. There best move would be to flip him to another team for some more 2012 picks.


----------



## Venom110

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

BTW, Lakers/Rockets deal was much better... Just thought I'd throw that back out there.


----------



## e-monk

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



Dissonance said:


> :laugh: Oh, please. That deal does nothing for NO's future.


unless they're smart enough to turn 'now' value into 'later' value (dell demps could probably have done that before his testicles were snapped off) - This Clippers deal does NOTHING for NO's 'now' value - more 'now' value can easily have yet more 'later' value if the gm has half a clue 

the Hornets just flushed the toilet on 'now' for less of what they could have got 'later' - listen to the analysts (which Im doing right now with the TV behind me - so far not one will say they Hornets got a 'better deal')


----------



## e-monk

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



MemphisX said:


> Exactly. They also will have to overpay Eric Gordon. There best move would be to flip him to another team for some more 2012 picks.


you got his quote wrong and yet you got it totally right - how is Gordon better than Martin?


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

I expect us to throw Pau and Bynum at Orlando for Howard now that Paul is gone.


----------



## o.iatlhawksfan

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



Venom110 said:


> BTW, Lakers/Rockets deal was much better... Just thought I'd throw that back out there.


Bull**** and you know it!!!


----------



## e-monk

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



Venom110 said:


> BTW, Lakers/Rockets deal was much better... Just thought I'd throw that back out there.


correct - I wish I could somehow get the Pacino scent of a woman clip with 'If I were half the man I used to be I'd take flame thrower to this place' into this thread (with Dr Buss saying it)


----------



## e-monk

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



o.iatlhawksfan said:


> Bull**** and you know it!!!


talent for talent it was easily - the Hornets GM would just have some work to do to get more youth out of trades for those dudes but hell yes it was


----------



## e-monk

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



King Sancho Fantastic said:


> I expect us to throw Pau and Bynum at Orlando for Howard now that Paul is gone.


no, not both - Kobe and Howard and Metta? please 


we should amnesty mr bean now if so


----------



## o.iatlhawksfan

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



e-monk said:


> talent for talent it was easily - the Hornets GM would just have some work to do to get more youth out of trades for those dudes but hell yes it was


But they were just getting Odam,Martin, and Scola what could they possibly get for that?


----------



## o.iatlhawksfan

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



MemphisX said:


> Oh and if Eric Gordon is so freaking good, the Hornets shouldn't suck like everyone assumes they will.


He can be Monta Ellis level good. It's that fact that they have him and possibly two lottery picks that makes it good.


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

Well, obviously I don't like the deal...the Clippers caved.

But what is done is done. I am sure the Lakers are very happy right now, absolutely thrilled.


----------



## FSH

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

i dont get why Clippers didnt try to get them to take Bledsoe instead of Aminu


----------



## Venom110

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



o.iatlhawksfan said:


> He can be Monta Ellis level good. It's that fact that they have him and possibly two lottery picks that makes it good.


I only see them getting one lottery pick... oh you must mean the other pick they will get because they are the worst team in the league this year... gotcha!!! Gotta love those Basketball Reasons (possibly)!


----------



## FSH

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

Also why do people forget Kaman is a 18/8 center when healthy? Kaman is getting written off like he is Johan Petro


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round draft picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/K*



> *Ric Bucher* _@RicBucher_
> Shrewd move by LAC, claiming Billups. Reduced need for CP3, so Clips get him for less than NOH/Stern wanted. (No Bledsoe + 2 future 2nds.)


The two second rounders softens the blow somewhat, but I still don't like the 2-year rental...nothing can stop Paul from walking at the end of 2013, simply saying "Donald T. Sterling" as a reason.

Or he can just say "basketball reasons."


----------



## FSH

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round draft picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/K*

Also that Minny pick is a little overrated. Minny got a solid team not a playoff team but a right on the edge of the playoffs team but the draft is loaded so we will see


----------



## FSH

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round draft picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/K*



Ron said:


> The two second rounders softens the blow somewhat, but I still don't like the 2-year rental...nothing can stop Paul from walking at the end of 2013, simply saying "Donald T. Sterling" as a reason.
> 
> Or he can just say "basketball reasons."


Chris Paul is gonna sell alot more jersey and get alot more fans to see Clippers games then Gordan,Kaman,Aminu so as long as he gets them to the playoffs both of them years i think it is a amazing deal for the Clippers now


----------



## FSH

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

also are the Clippers gonna be able to deal Mo Williams for something decent?


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



> *ramonashelburne* _@ramonashelburne_
> Just caught Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan outside the Clippers practice facility. Their eyes were popping out of their heads.


...


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round draft picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/K*



FSH said:


> Chris Paul is gonna sell alot more jersey and get alot more fans to see Clippers games then Gordan,Kaman,Aminu so as long as he gets them to the playoffs both of them years i think it is a amazing deal for the Clippers now


Selling more jerseys I will grant you.

But the Clippers sell out every game anyway, thanks to the ridiculous Laker prices.


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

FYI, the Clippers just suspended their season ticket sales on their web site.

:lol:


----------



## FSH

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



Ron said:


> FYI, the Clippers just suspended their season ticket sales on their web site.
> 
> :lol:


jacking up the prices


----------



## Venom110

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

They need to re-name the franchise tomorrow!!! The colors are nice, with a new name, new identity, the sky's the limit... Heat/Laker/Celtics Haters now have another exciting team to get behind.


----------



## Maravilla

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

That is ****ed up. lmao


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

I am trying to confirm it, but they also appear to have suspended their 16 game packages, etc.


----------



## Ron

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

https://oss.ticketmaster.com/html/p...5a6ced92e5c3e98195f48&team=clippers&selID=152

Inventory not available 


The tickets you have selected are not yet available for sale. Please try back later or contact Los Angeles Clippers customer service at 213-742-7555 for more information.


----------



## Pacers Fan

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



FSH said:


> also are the Clippers gonna be able to deal Mo Williams for something decent?


I hope so. Do they even have a Shooting Guard on the roster right now? I can see them playing Billups a lot at the 2 now that he's older and can't defend quicker PG's as well so that Bledsoe can develop at PG a little bit in the few minutes Paul is on the bench. But that leaves no spot for Williams


----------



## Diable

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

Actually Paul will often play the 2 for extended minutes. He shoots the ball well enough that the Hornets would try to get him shots running motion. Of course most teams are willing to let him shoot as much he likes because they don't want him to beat them with the bounce and create easy baskets.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



FSH said:


> also are the Clippers gonna be able to deal Mo Williams for something decent?


That or use the Amnesty...anyways now the trade is over with, what's the cap situation with the cap space next season? Can they still get a max player?


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

How I feel about David Stern right now...


----------



## Pacers Fan

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



Diable said:


> Actually Paul will often play the 2 for extended minutes. He shoots the ball well enough that the Hornets would try to get him shots running motion. Of course most teams are willing to let him shoot as much he likes because they don't want him to beat them with the bounce and create easy baskets.


Problem being Billups is a better shooter. Considering Chauncey's bigger and more likely to guard opposing two's, I think they'll list him at SG and have CP3 bring the ball up the court. I'm sure they'll share the ball handling duties in the half-court, though.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

Lakers are no longer the clear cut best team in LA. This is crazy. Griffin and Paul is going to be an insane duo. Hell CP3 and Deandre Jordan. The Clippers have a shot at being the greatest most entertaining team in basketball this season. 

Blake Griffin is now a dark horse MVP candidate


----------



## Diable

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



Pacers Fan said:


> Problem being Billups is a better shooter. Considering Chauncey's bigger and more likely to guard opposing two's, I think they'll list him at SG and have CP3 bring the ball up the court. I'm sure they'll share the ball handling duties in the half-court, though.



Check again. At any rate Billups can't guard anyone now and he isn't a very good player any more.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

There's no way they are getting rid of Billups now. Mo Williams will be the guy to go I think. Billups and Paul is a good backcourt/point guard rotation. You'll need that kind of depth to save CP3s knees for the playoffs.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

Is Caron Butler capable playing the 2? If so than Ryan Gomes can player the 3...and that will be one physical duo at the wing...


----------



## Hibachi!

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



futuristxen said:


> There's no way they are getting rid of Billups now. Mo Williams will be the guy to go I think. Billups and Paul is a good backcourt/point guard rotation. You'll need that kind of depth to save CP3s knees for the playoffs.


They can cut him, considering how little they paid him. Of course, that equates to Sterling just tossing away $2 million for not even a minute of play. Unlikely.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



Venom110 said:


> I only see them getting one lottery pick... oh you must mean the other pick they will get because they are the worst team in the league this year... gotcha!!! Gotta love those Basketball Reasons (possibly)!


You understand that that's how the Sonics/Thunder went from aging, underachieving team with mediocre talent to one of the best young teams in the league in the course of three or four years, right? Dumping vets, stockpiling picks, and building around Durant got them the other four starters in their lineup next year. It's a completely legitimate basketball decision.


----------



## Sliccat

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



futuristxen said:


> There's no way they are getting rid of Billups now. Mo Williams will be the guy to go I think. Billups and Paul is a good backcourt/point guard rotation. You'll need that kind of depth to save CP3s knees for the playoffs.


Of course not. They're not allowed to trade him this season.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



Bogg said:


> You understand that that's how the Sonics/Thunder went from aging, underachieving team with mediocre talent to one of the best young teams in the league in the course of three or four years, right? Dumping vets, stockpiling picks, and building around Durant got them the other four starters in their lineup next year. It's a completely legitimate basketball decision.


is it really though? if the thunder end up with anyone other than durant in that draft, the team is complete garbage right now.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



futuristxen said:


> Blake Griffin is now a dark horse MVP candidate


chris paul is a legit mvp candidate. blake griffin is not.


----------



## HKF

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



futuristxen said:


> Lakers are no longer the clear cut best team in LA. This is crazy. Griffin and Paul is going to be an insane duo. Hell CP3 and Deandre Jordan. The Clippers have a shot at being the greatest most entertaining team in basketball this season.
> 
> Blake Griffin is now a dark horse MVP candidate


If the Clippers improve that much record-wise, credit (as it should be) will be given to Chris Paul for the turnaround, not Blake Griffin.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

Mo Williams for Mike Miller....do it.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

I see what not getting your way does to some Laker fans. And it's happened once now, maybe twice with D12.


----------



## King Joseus

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



HKF said:


> If the Clippers improve that much record-wise, credit (as it should be) will be given to Chris Paul for the turnaround, not Blake Griffin.


Is that take from futur really a surprise?


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



rocketeer said:


> is it really though? if the thunder end up with anyone other than durant in that draft, the team is complete garbage right now.


You sure? Plug Jeff Green into a lineup with Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka, and Perkins next year and that team still makes the playoffs. *Obviously* you have to draft well and can't squander your cap space in order for it to work, but it _does work_. The Clippers just flipped a whole bunch of guys they drafted pretty high for a franchise player to go with their other franchise player that they drafted high and their promising young center that they stole in the draft. Chicago's reigning MVP is doing pretty well alongside the do-it-all forward and defensive center they both drafted in the lottery. Stockpiling above-average veterans usually isn't a better approach than bottoming out.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

I think Griffin will get the credit because he'll be getting the highlights, rebounds, and scoring numbers. He was really good last year, and now he'll be on a really good team.


----------



## Diable

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



Bogg said:


> You sure? Plug Jeff Green into a lineup with Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka, and Perkins next year and that team still makes the playoffs. *Obviously* you have to draft well and can't squander your cap space in order for it to work, but it _does work_. The Clippers just flipped a whole bunch of guys they drafted pretty high for a franchise player to go with their other franchise player that they drafted high and their promising young center that they stole in the draft. Chicago's reigning MVP is doing pretty well alongside the do-it-all forward and defensive center they both drafted in the lottery. Stockpiling above-average veterans usually isn't a better approach than bottoming out.


OKC is not in the Eastern Conference


----------



## Wade2Bosh

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

Trade is official..


> KBergCBS Ken Berger
> David Stern and Hornets leadership will speak with media on conference call at 9:45 p.m. ET.
> 
> SpearsNBAYahoo Marc J. Spears
> Hornets send out press release announcing CP traded to Clippers.


----------



## Laker Freak

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



futuristxen said:


> I think Griffin will get the credit because he'll be getting the highlights, rebounds, and scoring numbers. He was really good last year, and now he'll be on a really good team.


The year Nash won his first MVP, Stoudemire averaged 26 and 9 but finished 9th in the MVP voting. I see the Paul/Blake situation ending similar to that.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



Diable said:


> OKC is not in the Eastern Conference


None of the teams that missed the playoffs in the West last season got much better, outside of the Clippers, but a couple playoff teams got worse. It only takes mid-to-high forties in the win column(in an 82 game season) to make the playoffs out west, and that team with a competent bench wins 48ish games.


----------



## CavsNut96

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

Wow finally a trade though No Mo willams so thats a really good quility back up


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



MemphisX said:


> Mo Williams for Mike Miller....do it.


Moo Williams for Landry Fields!


----------



## Pioneer10

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

Well looks like Stern wins this one. Better deal for NO IMO: getting Gordon plus having two likely lottery picks in this loaded draft is a great way to restart the building process. The Clippers will be good with Griffen, Jordan, and Paul but they look pretty weak at the SF and SG spots right now.


----------



## futuristxen

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

Don't forget they got Butler for the 3 spot.

A lot of bad knees on that clipper team incidentally. They really are tempting the clipper curse


----------



## LA68

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

I'm just waiting for the league to send Howard to the Bobcats so the league can be leveled out. Apparently, only certain teams are allowed to improve themselves this season. 

They're _still the Clips_, Sterling is still the owner. That's all I know.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



LA68 said:


> I'm just waiting for the league to send Howard to the Bobcats so the league can be leveled out. Apparently, only certain teams are allowed to improve themselves this season.
> 
> They're _still the Clips_, Sterling is still the owner. That's all I know.


Oh, will you stop with the sour grapes. The other owners weren't going to take on the big contracts of aging veterans who didn't want to be there. They were right to kill the Lakers/Rockets dump, it was bad for the franchise. Where they messed up was making it seem like Demps would be able to operate without oversight. The Clippers gave the Hornets a better deal. Quit the whining and go trade for Howard.


----------



## Laker Freak

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

Isn't Gordon a free agent after this year? I doubt the owners will allow the Hornets to match a near max contract.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



Laker Freak said:


> Isn't Gordon a free agent after this year? I doubt the owners will allow the Hornets to match a near max contract.


The goal is to have the team sold by then. I'm sure they don't plan on owning the team throughout the entire rebuilding process.


----------



## HKF

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

The Hornets are going to be sold by summer. They were never going to be sold during the lockout. Why would you purchase a team when the threat of no-season was looming over the deal? Former NBA Deputy Commissioner Russ Granik has been advising potential ownership groups on the Hornets.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



Venom110 said:


> BTW, Lakers/Rockets deal was much better... Just thought I'd throw that back out there.


It was much better for the Lakers. But for the team losing the superstar it was a horrifically shitty deal.


----------



## Pioneer10

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



futuristxen said:


> Don't forget they got Butler for the 3 spot.
> 
> A lot of bad knees on that clipper team incidentally. They really are tempting the clipper curse


It's been 5 years since Butler has played more then 70 games in a year. That's a lot of hope and prayer at the wings for the Clips right now. I love Paul but having to give up Gordon knocks them down IMO from a title contender with Paul to another playoff calibre team that is fighting in the usually stacked Western Conference.

On another note: I have no idea what the Lakers are thinking now. As of right now with Howard off the block and Paul traded, there team has significantly downgraded with Odom being dealt away for scraps


----------



## Pioneer10

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



E.H. Munro said:


> It was much better for the Lakers. But for the team losing the superstar it was a horrifically shitty deal.


Yep, I didn't like the call and still don't but from NO's perspective Stern made the right move on this one


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



e-monk said:


> unless they're smart enough to turn 'now' value into 'later' value (dell demps could probably have done that before his testicles were snapped off) - This Clippers deal does NOTHING for NO's 'now' value - more 'now' value can easily have yet more 'later' value if the gm has half a clue


It does considerably more for the team's "now" financial value. And, as an added bonus, the Hornets didn't get stuck with contracts that they would need to pay someone to take off their hands. Chris Kaman has more trade value than anyone that Demps had agreed to take in v1.



e-monk said:


> the Hornets just flushed the toilet on 'now' for less of what they could have got 'later' - listen to the analysts (which Im doing right now with the TV behind me - so far not one will say they Hornets got a 'better deal')


The Hornets absolutely couldn't acquire multiple 2012 lottery picks "later". Better to bottom out in front of a stocked draft than risk the entire franchise on winning the 2014 lottery, only to end up giving the pick away to get Pepsi Scola off the books because you got stuck with the 7th pick in a three player draft. 

You Laker fans really need to give this up. Dell Demps did his best to **** the Hornets and the NBA over for your advantage, the league said "no". Get over it and move on. Do you see we Boston fans whining? This trade pretty much screwed Boston by demolishing the value of the only asset they had to trade (that future LA first which, absent season ending injuries to Paul or Blake, will now be in the 18-24 range), but so what. Move on.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



Bogg said:


> You sure? Plug Jeff Green into a lineup with Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka, and Perkins next year and that team still makes the playoffs. *Obviously* you have to draft well and can't squander your cap space in order for it to work, but it _does work_. The Clippers just flipped a whole bunch of guys they drafted pretty high for a franchise player to go with their other franchise player that they drafted high and their promising young center that they stole in the draft. Chicago's reigning MVP is doing pretty well alongside the do-it-all forward and defensive center they both drafted in the lottery. Stockpiling above-average veterans usually isn't a better approach than bottoming out.


drafting well isn't good enough, there is also a lot of luck involved. obviously it can be done, but i wouldn't say that trying to bottom out is better than remaining a playoff team and trying to work that into more. even when bottoming out does work perfectly, you're looking at a few year process before you're even relevant and then once you get there you're back at the point where you have to worry if you're going to be able to keep your guys or not.

and no, i don't agree that the thunder would make the playoffs if you slot jeff green into durant's spot.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



o.iatlhawksfan said:


> But they were just getting Odam,Martin, and Scola what could they possibly get for that?


Well, if they threw in a first round pick they could probably get someone to give them an expiring deal for Scola. Martin would easily have fetched them an expiring deal and a pick at the bottom of the first round. As would Odom. So, the _ossum_ deal would have been Paul and a first for a few low firsts. But they would have had Dragic!!!!


----------



## Laker Freak

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

Just got an email from NBA.com trying to get me to buy a Chris Paul jersey. :banghead:

https://responses.nba.com/servlet/formlink/f?gIHQUDBTVGf6be6990G11VtHsLjkMHgRBxnuHptQJhu


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



rocketeer said:


> drafting well isn't good enough, there is also a lot of luck involved. obviously it can be done, but i wouldn't say that trying to bottom out is better than remaining a playoff team and trying to work that into more.


Their options were bottoming out or being the 9th-10th best team in west, with zero chance to improve because there'd be no trade chips left. If the options are to bottom out or to be just shitty enough that the draft becomes a complete and utter crapshoot, you bite the bullet and bottom out.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



E.H. Munro said:


> Well, if they threw in a first round pick they could probably get someone to give them an expiring deal for Scola. Martin would easily have fetched them an expiring deal and a pick at the bottom of the first round. As would Odom. So, the _ossum_ deal would have been Paul and a first for a few low firsts. But they would have had Dragic!!!!


lol. they could have easily flipped each guy in the deal for a 1st if they had wanted to. acting like they'd have to pay someone to take scola off their hands is incredibly dumb.

but really, they would have just won 45+ games(in an 82 game year) and made the playoffs.

really not sure why you dislike scola so much and act as if he's worthless.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



E.H. Munro said:


> Their options were bottoming out or being the 9th-10th best team in west, with zero chance to improve because there'd be no trade chips left. If the options are to bottom out or to be just shitty enough that the draft becomes a complete and utter crapshoot, you bite the bullet and bottom out.


nah. their options were to bottom out or be the 5th-8th team in the west. not too much room to improve from there with most of their players maxed out potential wise, but it's very inaccurate to describe them as not having trade chips.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



> darrenrovell Just confirmed that Clippers Season Tickets are sold out. Believed to be the first time in team history.


darren rovell


----------



## Diable

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

I wonder if Jack has his floor seats yet


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



rocketeer said:


> lol. they could have easily flipped each guy in the deal for a 1st if they had wanted to. acting like they'd have to pay someone to take scola off their hands is incredibly dumb.


If Morey could "easily flip Scola" he would long since have done it. The reason he can't is because Scola has an awful contract. We know what Odom's value is, a low first round pick. Martin, due to an injury history that makes Delonte West look like an ironman has very little trade value either. 



rocketeer said:


> but really, they would have just won 45+ games(in an 82 game year) and made the playoffs.


No, it wouldn't have. It would have been a worse version of the 2011 Rockets, and it would have had a two year window to play .500 ball followed by an implosion. And if your franchise upside is "42 wins and the 14th pick baby!!!!" it's time to give up the ghost and let someone else have your job because you've failed as a GM. 

There is literally zero sense in fighting to play .500 ball in front of a draft where top 10 picks are going to be relatively safe for the privilege of falling apart in a year when the draft will be back to its normal crapshoot status. I mean literally zero.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



rocketeer said:


> nah. their options were to bottom out or be the 5th-8th team in the west.


Absent a coordinated terrorist attack that wiped out multiple Western Conference teams the closest that squad would get to the fifth seed in the would be when they visited Memphis for road games. The Rockets aren't getting anywhere close to the fifth seed. If we make the playoffs we'll be lucky.



rocketeer said:


> not too much room to improve from there with most of their players maxed out potential wise, but it's very inaccurate to describe them as not having trade chips.


There is a -2,789,302% chance that a 31 year old 6'8" PF that is one of the more mediocre starters in the NBA would get a 4/40 contract on the open market this summer. I mean, jesus, for that money you can get young athletic 7 footers that give you good post defense and rebounding. No one is tying up their cap space in Scola.


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



E.H. Munro said:


> If Morey could "easily flip Scola" he would long since have done it. The reason he can't is because Scola has an awful contract. We know what Odom's value is, a low first round pick. Martin, due to an injury history that makes Delonte West look like an ironman has very little trade value either.


morey hasn't flipped scola for a pick because scola brings more value on the court than a pick does. his contract is fine.



> No, it wouldn't have. It would have been a worse version of the 2011 Rockets, and it would have had a two year window to play .500 ball followed by an implosion. And if your franchise upside is "42 wins and the 14th pick baby!!!!" it's time to give up the ghost and let someone else have your job because you've failed as a GM.


you can keep saying this, but it's not true. they would have been a better version of the rockets.



> There is literally zero sense in fighting to play .500 ball in front of a draft where top 10 picks are going to be relatively safe for the privilege of falling apart in a year when the draft will be back to its normal crapshoot status. I mean literally zero.


the privilege to match a max offer for eric gordon and hope your draft evaluation and luck is good enough that you can pair him with a guy who will make an impact some time soon isn't exactly a great thing to look forward to.


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



rocketeer said:


> morey hasn't flipped scola for a pick because scola brings more value on the court than a pick does. his contract is fine.


His contract is dogflop. He's a single position player that isn't good enough to be a starter on a good team and they're paying him premium money. He's Brian Scalabrine on steroids (you're not going to get that, but most Celtics fans will).




rocketeer said:


> you can keep saying this, but it's not true. they would have been a better version of the rockets.


They absolutely would not have been better. For one thing the odds of Martin playing more than 45 games this year is infinitesimal, and he's the only player that occasionally demands a doubleteam. Demps dream squad would have limped to 30-34 wins this year and 40-44 next year. And then they would have sunk like a stone.



rocketeer said:


> the privilege to match a max offer for eric gordon and hope your draft evaluation and luck is good enough that you can pair him with a guy who will make an impact some time soon isn't exactly a great thing to look forward to.


You understand that Eric Gordon, all by hisself, has more trade value than the entire _ossum_ package that Dell got in the toxic salary demp, right? You do know that even Morey would give up everything and more that he was offering for Gasol to get him, right? I mean, if they just have to have Pepsi Scola, Little K-Mart and Dragic they could get all that and a prospect or two for E-Go, and they'd still have Kaman to trade to boot.


----------



## l0st1

*Re: REPORT: CP3 to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



E.H. Munro said:


> The Hornets absolutely couldn't acquire multiple 2012 lottery picks "later". Better to bottom out in front of a stocked draft than risk the entire franchise on winning the 2014 lottery, only to end up giving the pick away to get Pepsi Scola off the books because you got stuck with the 7th pick in a three player draft.




This is exactly what I wish the Suns would do. 


But to the point, this trade is lightyears ahead of the Lakers offer. A young star to be SG, a probably high lottery pick in a stacked draft, an expiring COMPETENT C, and a young athletic SF with potential >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lamar Odom, Perpetually injured Kevin Martin, who when healthy only scores and doesn't do anything else, Scola the nice Role Player thrust into the star of the Rockets, and then there's Dragic who has all the potential but is very up and down, granted he hasn't gotten consistent time or ever been a starter so he could still blow up(he has that sort of talent, kind of like Diaw) but that's hardly a package worth one of the best PGs in the league or THE best PG in the league and one of the best players period when healthy.



.02


----------



## Pioneer10

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

Gordon by himself is better then entire package that the Hornets would have got with the Laker trade. He's young and healthy and good. Look at what is else out there in terms of quality SG who are young and potential to be a true star. Not much out there. Add in two likely top 15 picks in one of best projected drafts in history and you got an awesome deal.

I really can't see how anyone can know this if you are any in favor of NO becoming a good team down the road


----------



## kbdullah

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

I think the Hornets win the deal, I really don't think the Clippers needed to trade for CP3 at all. Regardless, I don't know why the left Aminu in the deal and took out Bledsoe. They have depth at PG, but not on the wings, so I would've prefered to keep Aminu if I were LAC.


----------



## Dissonance

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

Did some people forget just who Chris Paul is during the lockout?

I mean, really.


----------



## King Joseus

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



Dissonance said:


> Did some people forget just who Chris Paul is during the lockout?
> 
> I mean, really.


I blame KVBL Chris Paul.


----------



## 29380

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



King Joseus said:


> I blame KVBL Chris Paul.


KVBL Eric Gordon >>>> KVBL Chris Paul


----------



## Hyperion

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*

The Clipper won 32 games last year!!! What the hell is wrong with you guys?!? Eric Gordon is a 6'3 SG that doesn't play defense! He's not Wade, he's a tweener that shoots a lot. Everyone else is a 'maybe good enough to play in the NBA' at best. Those guys weren't even good enough to sniff the starting lineup on a THIRTY TWO win team!!! 

Don't give me that crap that they were better in the second half of the season either! They went 16-25 to end the season. No one outside of Griffin was worth keeping. You can sign every single player's replacement in FA next year for less. The Clippers have the BEST PG IN THE NBA for a tweener that has no defense and the ugliest player in the NBA plus someone else's draft pick that may or may not be valuable.

If the next Tim Duncan is in the draft and they miss out on him.. wait they already got him. If the next Isiah Thomas... wait they already got him too. They're pretty set now. The Hornets have a chance to rebuild and everything is fair.


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Aminu/Kaman/Minn. #1 p*

Video of Blake and DeAndre finding out about the Paul deal

http://www.foxsportswest.com/12/14/...ding_clippers.html?blockID=626930&feedID=3661

Blake Griffin reaction is amazing

"It's gonna be lob city!"


----------



## Hibachi!

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Aminu/Kaman/Minn. #1 p*

*Edit NVM


----------



## Basel

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Going to be tons of fun watching the Clippers this season. Sucks we couldn't get CP3 to be a Laker, but it is what it is. I'm glad he's out of New Orleans.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Man if the Clippers can sign Jamal Crawford!!!


----------



## rocketeer

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



Pioneer10 said:


> Gordon by himself is better then entire package that the Hornets would have got with the Laker trade. He's young and healthy and good. Look at what is else out there in terms of quality SG who are young and potential to be a true star. Not much out there. Add in two likely top 15 picks in one of best projected drafts in history and you got an awesome deal.
> 
> I really can't see how anyone can know this if you are any in favor of NO becoming a good team down the road


eric gordon isn't a better player than kevin martin is right now. strange that you use "healthy" to describe him when he's missed 20+ games the last two seasons.

but yeah he's younger and should pass kevin martin with his superior defense but he also is going to have to get a big contract very soon.

i mean, yes, the hornets got a fine deal for paul. it gives them a chance to rebuild their team. the other deal was a very different kind of deal, but was also pretty good for new orleans giving them a chance to retain their status as a playoff team while hopefully from their perspective adding to it.

i have no problem with them picking this deal over that deal if both were on the table at the same time, but how it was handled was a complete cluster **** and absolutely wrong.


----------



## croco

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



Dissonance said:


> Did some people forget just who Chris Paul is during the lockout?
> 
> I mean, really.


Seriously, this is the NBA. Superstar type of players are far and away more valuable than eight or nine good players. It's easy to fill out the roster with Chris Paul and Blake Griffin on the team.


----------



## MemphisX

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



King Joseus said:


> I blame KVBL Chris Paul.


Or Eric Gordon is the truth on 2K.

Hornets should held out for the 2014 Clippers 1st.


----------



## Ben

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Griffin's averages with CP3 feeding him?


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Aminu/Kaman/Minn. #1 p*



FSH said:


> Video of Blake and DeAndre finding out about the Paul deal
> 
> http://www.foxsportswest.com/12/14/...ding_clippers.html?blockID=626930&feedID=3661
> 
> Blake Griffin reaction is amazing
> 
> "It's gonna be lob city!"


Jordan: "Who did we give up again?"

Griffin: "We don't care!"


----------



## thaKEAF

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

:laugh: wow


----------



## E.H. Munro

*Re: REPORT: CP3, 2 2nd round picks to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Kaman*



rocketeer said:


> eric gordon isn't a better player than kevin martin is right now.


Even Kevin Martin's mom says you're insane.


----------



## l0st1

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Aminu/Kaman/Minn. #1 p*



FSH said:


> Video of Blake and DeAndre finding out about the Paul deal
> 
> http://www.foxsportswest.com/12/14/...ding_clippers.html?blockID=626930&feedID=3661
> 
> Blake Griffin reaction is amazing
> 
> "It's gonna be lob city!"


Funny reaction. I thought Chris Kaman was extremely professional. Didn't sound bitter or upset at all. Wish more professional athletes acted like him.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Even if the Clippers come to terms with both of their second round picks, they will have just over $6 mil in cap room. If they amnesty Mo Williams, that number jumps up over $14 mil. Why couldn't they acquire Afflalo AND Dalembert with that number?


----------



## Ben

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Aminu/Kaman/Minn. #1 p*



l0st1 said:


> Funny reaction. I thought Chris Kaman was extremely professional. Didn't sound bitter or upset at all. Wish more professional athletes acted like him.


Agreed. Gordon sounds close to tears, but I respect what he said too. Shame he had to go because Clippers would have been pretty insane with Paul/Gordon/Butler/Griffin/Jordan, but it is what it is.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Mo Williams/DeAndre Jordan for Tyson Chandler/Renaldo Balkman???


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Why would the Knicks trade Chandler.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



Floods said:


> Why would the Knicks trade Chandler.


Because they desperately need a PG and because Jordan is younger and has similar potential. Not a huge downgrade at C to get a very big upgrade at PG.


----------



## Pioneer10

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Since this is the Clippers who is first to blow out there knee: Griffin or Paul?


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



Pioneer10 said:


> Since this is the Clippers who is first to blow out there knee: Griffin or Paul?


Butler.


----------



## Marcus13

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Good God I cant wait to watch the Clippers win 40 games


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



Marcus13 said:


> Good God I cant wait to watch the Clippers win 40 games


40-26 would be good for the 4th seed in the west this season I would think.


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



RollWithEm said:


> Mo Williams/DeAndre Jordan for Tyson Chandler/Renaldo Balkman???


So we get almost 10 yrs older at the center spot and would still have a gaping hole at the two guard...no thanks...how about Moo Williams for Landry fields plus another guy to match salary...that would help both teams...


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Is Kaman gonna play for the Hornets or are they gonna deal him? Because if he does start and is healthy i think he is gonna have another 09 year 18/10


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



NOFX22 said:


> how about Moo Williams for Landry fields plus another guy to match salary...that would help both teams...


Knicks got no one they can deal that will match Mo salary...There is no way the Knicks are getting Mo

Landry Fields makes 800k...Mo makes almost 10mil


----------



## JNice

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Clips should really look to sign Afflalo. He'd be a great fit on that team and would be a great high-level role playing third banana. Sign Afflalo and if Butler can stay healthy they'd pretty quickly be a contender.


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Clippers need to find a defensive SG they already got enough scoring in Griffin,Bulter,Billups,Paul...But who is out there they can deal/sign for?


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



JNice said:


> Clips should really look to sign Afflalo. He'd be a great fit on that team and would be a great high-level role playing third banana. Sign Afflalo and if Butler can stay healthy they'd pretty quickly be a contender.


Forgot about Afflalo he is the one guy out there that fits this team...Perfect move for Clippers if they go after him


----------



## bootstrenf

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

I wish the clippers would go after Gerald Wallace...


----------



## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

The remaining two guards available are Jamal Crawford, Aaron Affalo, Nick Young, and Stucky...I think Stucky would be two expensive considering he's already turned down 45 mil from the pistons...Nick Young would be good and he's from LA but the only problem he's restricted. The same could be said to Affalo. I think the only real choice is Jamal Crawford


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



> . “@sam_amick: Jamal Crawford has chosen Portland, according to two sources.”


..


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



NOFX22 said:


> Nick Young would be good


Only in a gym by himself.


----------



## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



FSH said:


> Clippers need to find a defensive SG they already got enough scoring in Griffin,Bulter,Billups,Paul...But who is out there they can deal/sign for?


Seems to me the easy answer is to trade one of their five point guards to Chicago for one of their four or five shooting guards. If Chicago needs a guy who can play off the ball and score, but also take over some ball-handling duties for Rose at times, and the Clippers need someone to defend bigger two-guards, a Randy Foye for Ronnie Brewer swap seems obvious. They even make almost the same yearly amount, so you wouldn't have to get creative at all.


----------



## RollWithEm

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Chicago's 10-man rotation is locked in. Why would they want Foye?


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Don't the Magic have like 12 shooting guards? Surely they'd cough up one for Foye's expiring.


----------



## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Afflalo is restricted. Clippers aren't getting him. Denver will match.


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## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

If only Eric Gordon and Griffin were close buddies cuz than he would still be a clipper


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## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



RollWithEm said:


> Chicago's 10-man rotation is locked in. Why would they want Foye?


Because they can't possibly play the five shooting guards on their roster and Foye adds a dynamic they don't currently have on their bench? Picking Rose up at mid-court with a double team created serious problems for Chicago in the playoffs last year. Hamilton does something to help address that. Foye is good enough to bring the ball up against pressure, but can also transition to the two-guard spot after getting the ball to Rose.


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## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

What are the teams that need pg help? Knicks, Heat, and Lakers? Funny that they are all elite! Lol. Of those teams I only like Landry fields...


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## Hibachi!

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Aminu/Kaman/Minn. #1 p*



RollWithEm said:


> Jordan: "Who did we give up again?"
> 
> Griffin: "We don't care!"


Yeah that's what I thought he said originally. However, if you watch the video carefully he's saying that to someone else who's saying something to him. I don't think it was in relation to who they gave up.


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## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



NOFX22 said:


> What are the teams that need pg help? Knicks, Heat, and Lakers? Funny that they are all elite! Lol. Of those teams I only like Landry fields...


Unless the Clippers are willing to do Bledsoe for Field i doubt Knicks are trading Fields


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## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

How about Bledsoe, Williams for Monta Ellis? I think Curry is more of a two anyways and u have a vet at pg and upcoming one in Bledsoe


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## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

You really want to put Monta Ellis with Chris Paul?


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## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Foye and Billups can both play 2 guard. Hell Billups used to start at 2 guard when he played with Nick the Quick.


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## RollWithEm

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



Bogg said:


> Because they can't possibly play the five shooting guards on their roster and Foye adds a dynamic they don't currently have on their bench? Picking Rose up at mid-court with a double team created serious problems for Chicago in the playoffs last year. Hamilton does something to help address that. Foye is good enough to bring the ball up against pressure, but can also transition to the two-guard spot after getting the ball to Rose.


5 shooting guards??? Ronnie Brewer is better suited as a SF, but he can defend either position. Their entire SG rotation will be Rip/Korver.

PG Rose/Watson
SG Rip/Korver
SF Deng/Brewer
PF Boozer/Gibson
C Noah/Asik

Foye might help alleviate some pressure, but they definitely don't "need" him.


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## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

And Clippers Leslie from Georgia who gets compared to a Tony Allen type player


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## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Leslie is a super athlete.


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## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

So where would u rank this current Clipper team in the west?


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## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

4ish


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## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

In the West I have:

1. Oklahoma City
2. Dallas
3. LA Lakers (division winners)
4. San Antonio
5. Memphis
6. LA Clippers
7. Phoenix
8. Denver
----------------
9. Portland
10. Golden State
11. Houston
12. Sacramento
13. Utah
14. Minnesota
15. New Orleans

Because of less games, the top 6 are going to be clumped up. I thoroughly expect Phoenix to be back in the playoffs.


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## Diable

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

The Clippers should go out and find one of those guys that the Spurs have been pulling out of their ass the last couple of years, someone who can spot up and hit the open shot. There are going to be a lot of those and if they improved their shooting they could really go up in the standings. I think the schedule is going to hurt the Spurs and the Lakers quite a bit too.


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## Dissonance

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



HKF said:


> In the West I have:
> 
> 1. Oklahoma City
> 2. Dallas
> 3. LA Lakers (division winners)
> 4. San Antonio
> 5. Memphis
> 6. LA Clippers
> 7. Phoenix
> 8. Denver
> ----------------
> 9. Portland
> 10. Golden State
> 11. Houston
> 12. Sacramento
> 13. Utah
> 14. Minnesota
> 15. New Orleans
> 
> Because of less games, the top 6 are going to be clumped up. *I thoroughly expect Phoenix to be back in the playoffs*.



God. I hope not. 

Why do you think so though?


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## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Probably just by default. Outside of the top 6 the west is a black hole.


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## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



Dissonance said:


> God. I hope not.
> 
> Why do you think so though?


Well, with Nash, Hill, Gortat, Lopez, Dudley, Frye, Brown, Childress and Morris (I think they will have a nice nine man rotation.


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## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Just watched the press conference. Neil Olshey said they only move they were now looking to make was for a backup center. I agree that there is their greatest position of need now. Who has a better back court in the West? Maybe OKC?


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## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Yup, they need to sign Dalembert


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## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



RollWithEm said:


> 5 shooting guards??? Ronnie Brewer is better suited as a SF, but he can defend either position. Their entire SG rotation will be Rip/Korver.
> 
> PG Rose/Watson
> SG Rip/Korver
> SF Deng/Brewer
> PF Boozer/Gibson
> C Noah/Asik
> 
> Foye might help alleviate some pressure, but they definitely don't "need" him.


Yes, they have five shooting guards. Rip, Korver, Brewer, Bogans, and Butler. Yes, they're only likely to play Rip and Korver. Foye isn't a need, but if he adds something the Bulls lack, and there's minimal minutes to be had for Brewer, they might as well make a move. If nothing else, Foye's deal is expiring while Brewer's deal has two years on it, so it'll make the transition to Rose's max contract that much easier. I honestly think that trade would be mildly beneficial to both teams.


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## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Rasual Butler went to Toronto. Brewer and Korver are interchangeable wings, while Hamilton and Bogans are pure SG's.


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## Bogg

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



HKF said:


> Rasual Butler went to Toronto. Brewer and Korver are interchangeable wings, while Hamilton and Bogans are pure SG's.


....and Jimmy Butler came in as the rookie project. They have five shooting guards. Granted, two of them are likely to divvy up the 10 minutes per game that Deng isn't on the floor, but with Rip taking up 30+ mpg now, you really only need one backup swingman(Korver) and someone you can throw in in case of injury that won't kill you(Bogans). Again, in the event that a team decides to press in an effort to tire Rose out in the fourth(like Miami did. Miami isn't going anywhere, BTW), it would be nice for the Bulls to have a guy who can advance the ball and then slide over to shooting guard. None of the five two-guards on Chicago's roster can do that, and at 175 pounds, C.J. Watson isn't defending any good NBA shooting guard(much less Dwayne Wade).


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## NOFX22

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*








They look like there about to get decapitated!!!


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## bootstrenf

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



NOFX22 said:


> They look like there about to get decapitated!!!


So I guess paul's number 3 isn't being retired..


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## R-Star

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Kaman looks like Ron Pearlman....


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## ChosenFEW

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



bootstrenf said:


> So I guess paul's number 3 isn't being retired..




retiring someones number who's only played 5 years in the nba.


someone needs to set the bar a bit higher.....


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## Laker Freak

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



ChosenFEW said:


> retiring someones number who's only played 5 years in the nba.
> 
> 
> someone needs to set the bar a bit higher.....


Well he is the best player to put on a Hornets uniform. I'm sure his jersey would have been retired if he hadn't demanded a trade.


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## ChosenFEW

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



Laker Freak said:


> Well he is the best player to put on a Hornets uniform. I'm sure his jersey would have been retired if he hadn't demanded a trade.


So, Im guessing you wouldn't mind seeing vince carter get his raptor jersey retired either.


I dont know.... Me, Personally, I hold retiring someones jersey to be more special than just being the best player to play for the team so far.


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## HKF

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Kaman looks like he spent ten years in a Turkish prison. I sure hope he doesn't own a van.


----------



## Adam

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

The Clippers are going to be so much better than people are willing to believe right now. I know as soon as the season gets underway people will all jump on the bandwagon but right now I have them as the 3rd best team in the West.

Thing you have to realize is DeAndre is going into his 4th year. Blake is going into his 3rd year. A PG rotation of Paul and Billups is so sick. These guys are ready to contend.


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## Jamel Irief

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



ChosenFEW said:


> retiring someones number who's only played 5 years in the nba.
> 
> 
> someone needs to set the bar a bit higher.....


Dan Marino.


----------



## Ron

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

None of those guys look happy at all.


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## Hyperion

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



Jamel Irief said:


> Dan Marino.


Michael Jordan


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## jaw2929

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Holy shit Aminu/Gordon/Kaman look pissed as HELL! What I don't get is why? There are worse teams they could've been dealt to (Minnesota for instance).


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## OneBadLT123

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Better angle 
This photo really can't be serious. They must have agreed to have those expressions, as if they got traded to a Taliban stronghold in Bora Bora or something. It's just too funny.

I can come back to this photo for lulz for years to come. 









and....


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## Tragedy

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



NOFX22 said:


> They look like there about to get decapitated!!!


lol forreal. Can someone photoshop Al Qaeda behind them?


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## jokeaward

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Wow, you know the Hornets are bad when ex-Clippers, with only Kaman ever experiencing a winning season, are sullen.

When does Gordon ask to be traded? Next summer? Friday?


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## thaKEAF

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Isn't he a FA after this season or no?


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## jokeaward

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

2013 FA.

But unless the new owner can give him Kobe money, he'll leave. They should have traded David West as well, he signed a 2-yr to flee.


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## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

the headband mark around Eric Gordon head is hilarious

and seriously they look like prisoners holding up a news paper to show proof of life


----------



## Floods

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



jaw2929 said:


> Holy shit Aminu/Gordon/Kaman look pissed as HELL! What I don't get is why? There are worse teams they could've been dealt to (Minnesota for instance).


I don't know, I think Minnesota could make some headway this season. I wouldn't bet against Rick Adelman.


----------



## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



Floods said:


> I don't know, I think Minnesota could make some headway this season. I wouldn't bet against Rick Adelman.


Minny needs a legit scoring SG before they go anywhere


----------



## jokeaward

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Minnesota has a top 20 player... and an owner.


----------



## BenDengGo

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



FSH said:


> Minny needs a legit scoring SG before they go anywhere


minnesota is loaded with young players and talents, they should do a consolidation trade to get them one step further.

they could easily swing a trade eric gordon or any other scoring 2 guard.


----------



## Blue

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*

Wes Johnson is not bad


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## FSH

*Re: UPDATE: CP3, 2nd round picks traded to Clippers for Gordon/Minnesota 1st/Aminu/Ka*



Blu said:


> Wes Johnson is not bad


he's not but he need to develop his handle more and be able to create his own shot which atm he cant


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