# My Offseason Plan for the New York Knockerbockers.



## H2O (Jul 10, 2002)

Just thought I would share my crazy thoughts with the trade junkies, like me. Feel free to let me know what you think is smart, stupid, or just plain crazy. Honestly though I'm only a trade junkie right now because my team is just so horrible.

Now, this gets a bit silly, and it's all entirely conjecture and nonsense, but this is what I would attempt to get done if I were the GM of the Knicks over the summer. Bear with me, if you're interested.

MY plan involves three moves. All of them fairly major. It involves us picking up some FA's in sign and trades, because that is the only way we can do it.

*The first, simplest, best, and most realistic of my trades is thus:
*
Andre Miller (Resigned for $6-7 million) to the Knicks for Ward, the rights to Milos Vujanic, and $2 million in cash. This move makes alot of sense for both teams. It gives the Clipps a young PG prospect in Vujanic to pair with his national teammate Jaric in the back court for a player they would have just let walk anyways. And the Knicks get Andre Miller, who, despite a bad year is still a solid point guard, and a player that Layden covets. So that takes care of our point guard situation.
*
Now, the second and slightly less grounded, but still in my opinion possible trade is this:
*
We trade Latrell Sprewell and Travis Knight for Tim Thomas and Jason Caffey. We also swap picks here (the #9 for the #8). Milwaulkie does this trade because they get out of two bad long term contracts, and they get a hometown hero who they have expressed much interest in in the past. Knight is there as an expiring contract. Latrell only has two years left, Caffey I believe 3, Thomas 4. NY gets a real SF with size, and has to take on an over paid Caffey, so as compensation we swap picks, a difference of 1, but since both teams are looking for size, that will be key (see later).

*Here is my third, and most out of nowhere trade:*

Indiana is looking to avoid paying the luxery tax. Indiana has a lot of FA's to sign, and they are coming off a miserable post season which has led most to conclude it is time for a change. Indiana has also been looking to dump Austin Croshere, basically ever since they signed him, and have yet to even remotely find a taker. I think we could help them out like this. We trade Antonio Mcdyess for a resigned Brad Miller and Austin Croshere. We may have to throw in a second round pick to make this work, or that might not even be enough, I'm not sure, but it seems fair to me. Indiana finally gets rid of Croshere, loses Miller, who they had a good chance of losing anyways, and gets cap relief in Mcdyess's huge expiring contract. NY gets a legit center, and adds another bad contract. I don't believe Mcdyess will ever play again, but there is a chance that he will. That makes this a risky trade for NY, and adds some possible gravy for Indiana.

*Then we go into the draft:*

And for the first time in a while, we fully intend to keep our pretty decent #8 pick. Since we pick before the Bucks, there will be at least one of the following promising big men available and I say we draft whichever is left out of:
Chris Kaman
Maciej Lampe
Anderson Varejao
Sofiklis Schortisiantes

*So where are we left?*

NY had added some more bad contracts, but none of them are longer than Houston's, so it does nothing to further damage our already drastic cap situation. You can't kill a dead horse. And anyways, our team is going to have one of the highest payrolls whichever way you look at it, so we might as well at least make the playoffs. And this sets us up for a major cap windfall in I believe 2007.

We have kept our two best players from this year, Allan and Kurt, and have added some quality players around them. Our line up is deep, has some young talent, and I think is pretty good. We would easily be top 4 in the East, in my opinion.

*Check out the roster:*

Starters:

Brad Miller (Finally a big center)
Kurt Thomas (Back at his natural position at last)
Tim Thomas (Finally a big small forward)
Allan Houston (Still clearly the focal point of the offense)
Andre Miller (A good point guard)

Bench:

Austin Croshere (Better than anyone on our bench this year)
Big Man Rookie (Some young talent!)
Howard Eisley (Back in a back-up role where he belongs)
Jason Caffey
Clarence Weatherspoon
Shandon Anderson
Michael Doleac
Frank Williams (It just wouldn't feel like the Knicks without some young talent rotting on the bench)
Othella Harrington (Although a team may want him as an add in in one of the above trades?)
2nd round pick (Chris Marcus?)

*So this is what I would do if I were GM, I hope Scott Layden reads it and steals some of my ideas. I promise I wouldn't be mad. I honestly feel that these moves could make us an instant contender, and brightens up our future considerably.*


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## MPK (Oct 20, 2002)

i like it. get layden's email. it fills all the needs the Knicks have, and considerably brightens the future. the indiana trade seems the most unrealistic, but it is possible...


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## H2O (Jul 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MPK</b>!
> i like it. get layden's email. it fills all the needs the Knicks have, and considerably brightens the future. the indiana trade seems the most unrealistic, but it is possible...


Yeah, the Indiana one is tricky. We might want to include next years first rounder (lotto protected, although I doubt that would be an issue). I think they would jump at that then.

Being a smallish market, they really need to get rid of an unproductive Croshere, and I think this is the easiest way for them to do it.

And BTW, if anyone has his e-mail, or even an address, let me know, I'd like to send Layden a few suggestions.


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## ill subliminal (Apr 3, 2003)

i like it a little bit, but aren't we forgetting exactly why Indiana has been trying to get rid of Austin Crochere? (he sucks) Also, after what happened to Brad Miller's play following the ankle injury this year, I would be very hesitant to just jump at him, especially giving up an absolutely great player in McDyess, who granted has been hurt the past 2 years, but still, Indy should give NY a draft pick if anything. And that trade would be easy, since Jermaine O'Neal will probably walk and need to be replaced.

Also, I like Sprewell and would consider Thomas a huge drop down at that position. He's a very spotty player, and I think that the last freaking thing NY needs is another undersized post player (a la Weatherspoon, Harrington, Thomas, um, any more?)

I think Andre Miller sucks, too, but then I was once a Clippers fan. I don't even remember that trade, but whatever. Oh, there it is. $2 million cash? Hell yes says Donald Sterling!


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## H2O (Jul 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>ill subliminal</b>!
> i like it a little bit, but aren't we forgetting exactly why Indiana has been trying to get rid of Austin Crochere? (he sucks) Also, after what happened to Brad Miller's play following the ankle injury this year, I would be very hesitant to just jump at him, especially giving up an *absolutely great player in McDyess,* who granted has been hurt the past 2 years, but still, Indy should give NY a draft pick if anything. And that trade would be easy, since Jermaine O'Neal will probably walk and need to be replaced.
> 
> Also, I like Sprewell and would consider Thomas a huge drop down at that position. He's a very spotty player, and I think that the last freaking thing NY needs is *another undersized post player *(a la Weatherspoon, Harrington, Thomas, um, any more?)
> ...


Mcdyess is done. Read a report on it by anyone outside of the Knicks propaganda machine, er... I mean, organization. He will never play a full season again, and that is the best case scenario.

Tim Thomas is not my favorite either, but he is young and available. He is also not an undersized post player, he is an oversized perimeter player, and addresses a very clear need for this team.

And Kurt Thomas is not an undersized post player either. His size is fine, he is just not a center.

And Andre Miller had a bad year in a bad system. He may not be a superstar, but he certainly doesn't suck.


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

I like


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## Pistolballer (May 9, 2003)

i dont see those trades as either smart or plausible
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Andre Miller (Resigned for $6-7 million) to the Knicks for Ward, the rights to Milos Vujanic, and $2 million in cash. This move makes alot of sense for both teams. It gives the Clipps a young PG prospect in Vujanic to pair with his national teammate Jaric in the back court for a player they would have just let walk anyways. And the Knicks get Andre Miller, who, despite a bad year is still a solid point guard, and a player that Layden covets. So that takes care of our point guard situation
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that would never fly
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We trade Latrell Sprewell and Travis Knight for Tim Thomas and Jason Caffey. We also swap picks here (the #9 for the #8). Milwaulkie does this trade because they get out of two bad long term contracts, and they get a hometown hero who they have expressed much interest in in the past. Knight is there as an expiring contract. Latrell only has two years left, Caffey I believe 3, Thomas 4. NY gets a real SF with size, and has to take on an over paid Caffey, so as compensation we swap picks, a difference of 1, but since both teams are looking for size, that will be key (see later).
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this works well for... for Milwaukee, NY would be very foolish to complete this trade.
------------------------------------
Indiana is looking to avoid paying the luxery tax. Indiana has a lot of FA's to sign, and they are coming off a miserable post season which has led most to conclude it is time for a change. Indiana has also been looking to dump Austin Croshere, basically ever since they signed him, and have yet to even remotely find a taker. I think we could help them out like this. We trade Antonio Mcdyess for a resigned Brad Miller and Austin Croshere. We may have to throw in a second round pick to make this work, or that might not even be enough, I'm not sure, but it seems fair to me. Indiana finally gets rid of Croshere, loses Miller, who they had a good chance of losing anyways, and gets cap relief in Mcdyess's huge expiring contract. NY gets a legit center, and adds another bad contract. I don't believe Mcdyess will ever play again, but there is a chance that he will. That makes this a risky trade for NY, and adds some possible gravy for Indiana.
--------------------------------
Dice's stock is too low for anyone to dump an all-star AND a backup (beit Croshere or not) although if they could pull it off, this could be a very favourable steal for NY, an allstar Center (to quote "finally") and Austin Croshere is not as bad as everyone says, hes actually quite good, Zeke is an overrated, foolish coach
(how else can you explain such a talented team going down first round?)


I mean this in no way to put you down, this is merely my opinion.


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## W1Z0C0Z (Jun 18, 2002)

Looks good w/o the Spree for Thomas trade. That's a horrible idea. The teams a lot better with...

A. Miller
Houston
Spree
K. Thomas
B. Miller


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

I like it all except I would rather resign Nailon and sign Chris Anderson, then take on Jason Caffey, unless you are doing this for freeing up bucks cap space.

Also don't knock Kurt Thomas, when he plays his natural position he is quite good.


Also if your draft order goes like this


Chris Kaman
Maciej Lampe
Anderson Varejao
Sofiklis Schortisiantes

Then I would take Sofo over Varejao ( I have had my fill of underweight forwards).


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Actually this is a sound plausible plan.

The Andre Miller plan is good but you will have to give the Clippers the full $3 million so they can buyout Ward and have some change

Sprewell is past his prime and Thomas would be a good pick up for them even with Caffey. Like he said, the Knicks will not be under the tax threshold before 2007 so what does it matter if they pick up more bad contracts.

The Brad Miller trade is iffy but i think O'Neal is headed to San Antonio and Brad Miller will leave if he does. If that happens the Pacers would love to get rid of Croshere, especially since insurance will likely pay 80% of Dice's salary.

This would definitely put the Knicks in the playoffs.


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## jus (Feb 22, 2003)

plan's good, besides that we get more bad contracts, but then again. james dolan can afford to pay.......well, he better be willing to pay after having putting knicks fans through a few years of hell.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

i dont see those trades as either smart or plausible
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Andre Miller (Resigned for $6-7 million) to the Knicks for Ward, the rights to Milos Vujanic, and $2 million in cash. This move makes alot of sense for both teams. It gives the Clipps a young PG prospect in Vujanic to pair with his national teammate Jaric in the back court for a player they would have just let walk anyways. And the Knicks get Andre Miller, who, despite a bad year is still a solid point guard, and a player that Layden covets. So that takes care of our point guard situation
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that would never fly * First of all, it would be nice if you mentioned why it would never fly. I think Mr H20 gave a very clear explanation of why he think it is going to fly. This is a move the Clips would CERTAINLY make in my opinion.*
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We trade Latrell Sprewell and Travis Knight for Tim Thomas and Jason Caffey. We also swap picks here (the #9 for the #8). Milwaulkie does this trade because they get out of two bad long term contracts, and they get a hometown hero who they have expressed much interest in in the past. Knight is there as an expiring contract. Latrell only has two years left, Caffey I believe 3, Thomas 4. NY gets a real SF with size, and has to take on an over paid Caffey, so as compensation we swap picks, a difference of 1, but since both teams are looking for size, that will be key (see later).
------------------------------------
this works well for... for Milwaukee, NY would be very foolish to complete this trade. * Again, why??? Do you think the Knicks long-term goal of success (and it is definitely LONG TERM people) is hurt by this trade? When it comes right down to it, what is the difference between Thomas and Sprewell when you already have Houston? Not to mention, moving up a pick is always significant when you desperately need a big man.*
------------------------------------
Indiana is looking to avoid paying the luxery tax. Indiana has a lot of FA's to sign, and they are coming off a miserable post season which has led most to conclude it is time for a change. Indiana has also been looking to dump Austin Croshere, basically ever since they signed him, and have yet to even remotely find a taker. I think we could help them out like this. We trade Antonio Mcdyess for a resigned Brad Miller and Austin Croshere. We may have to throw in a second round pick to make this work, or that might not even be enough, I'm not sure, but it seems fair to me. Indiana finally gets rid of Croshere, loses Miller, who they had a good chance of losing anyways, and gets cap relief in Mcdyess's huge expiring contract. NY gets a legit center, and adds another bad contract. I don't believe Mcdyess will ever play again, but there is a chance that he will. That makes this a risky trade for NY, and adds some possible gravy for Indiana.
--------------------------------
Dice's stock is too low for anyone to dump an all-star AND a backup (beit Croshere or not) although if they could pull it off, this could be a very favourable steal for NY, an allstar Center (to quote "finally") and Austin Croshere is not as bad as everyone says, hes actually quite good, Zeke is an overrated, foolish coach
(how else can you explain such a talented team going down first round?) * You don't get it. McDyess has an EXPIRING contract. That fact will do the Knicks no good because they are so strapped as it is, but the Pacers get rid of two LARGE contracts for an expiring one. Do you realize what that will do to their cap situation in the expansion offseason? That would be crucial.*



> Posted by ME right now!
> 
> GOOD IDEAS! H20 did a nice job, but I still don't think they will contend for the Eastern Conference crown. Detroit and New Jersey are too stacked.


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

That deal with Indy won't happen if Jermaine O'Neal re-signs with Indy as expected because Indy will let The Miller Brothers walk this summer. We've been over this a few times. When Indy maxes out O'Neal, they will be JUST BELOW the luxury tax threshold, which is where they want to stay. By signing either Brad or Reggie Miller, they go OVER the threshold, which would cost them an absurd of amount of money. Even if they turn around and immediately trade Brad Miller, they STILL go over the threshold.

If O'Neal walks, then this trade makes a ton of sense for Indy, because they can dump Croshere's terrible contract AND stay under the luxury tax threshold. But if O'Neal comes back, it won't happen.

I also cannot believe that a single person on this planet thinks that Tim Thomas is a desirable commodity. Total enigma, and good GOD, what a contract! Take a look at that contract! Ridiculous! The Knicks and Bucks might work something out involving Tim Thomas and Latrell Sprewell, but the Bucks would probably have to somehow bail the Knicks out on a bad contract, as well. Probably either Shandon Anderson or Clarence Weatherspoon. I also don't think the Knicks would have to cough up Spree in order to get Tim Thomas. Here are some trades that could bring Thomas to New York:

Charlie Ward (expiring contract) and Shandon Anderson FOR Tim Thomas

Charlie Ward and Clarence Weatherspoon FOR Tim Thomas

Charlie Ward and Howard Eisley FOR Tim Thomas

Antonio McDyess (expiring contract) and Travis Knight (expiring contract) FOR Tim Thomas and Sam Cassell (Bucks clear a TON of payroll here; Knicks might have to throw in a future first rounder)

Latrell Sprewell and Travis Knight FOR Tim Thomas and Sam Cassell

Antonio McDyess FOR Tim Thomas and Joel Pryzbilla (filler)

There are LOTS and LOTS of possibilities, H2O. I think you totally underestimate what New York can get with their expiring contracts. You also underestimate how incredibly difficult it is to unload a dude with a terrible longterm contract like Tim Thomas. Ridiculously overpaid dudes like Thomas actually have NEGATIVE trade value and are therefore worth LESS than an expiring contract because of the luxury tax.


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## H2O (Jul 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>robyg1974</b>!
> 
> There are LOTS and LOTS of possibilities, H2O. I think you totally underestimate what New York can get with their expiring contracts. You also underestimate how incredibly difficult it is to unload a dude with a terrible longterm contract like Tim Thomas. Ridiculously overpaid dudes like Thomas actually have NEGATIVE trade value and are therefore worth LESS than an expiring contract because of the luxury tax.


Perhaps I'm just overvalueing (is this even a word?) the importance of trading draft picks. It's been so long since the Knicks have actually kept one, it seems I may have an inflated sense of their worth.

One thing though, RobyG, while you obviously have a good understanding of the economics behind the NBA, you leave one crucial element out of your equations when evaluating a teams willingness to go through with a trade. And that is public opinion. Most people do not understand the nuances of the CBA and the fans would revolt against moves that make too much sense not to make when you know hte whole picture. I honestly think this is a pretty major consideration in most teams decision making processes.

But I'm glad someone agrees that NY *could* have a very productive offseason with the contracts and personel they have. There are a lot of possibilities as to what could happen if this summer is played intelligently. This was just one scenario, and an idea of what I might like to do.

Thanx for all the feedback everyone.

PS, Roll With Em, thanx for saving me the trouble of debating whether or not it was worth it to dispute the post of Mr. "I'm not trying to put you down, but I am going to unecessarily pick out one of the many words that you misspell in your 2 page post as proof of your lack of understanding of what consitutes reasonable player movement in the NBA"



> Posted by Roll With Em right now!
> 
> GOOD IDEAS! H20 did a nice job, but I still don't think they will contend for the Eastern Conference crown. Detroit and New Jersey are too stacked.


I dunno about that, Detroit almost lost to the #8 seed this year, and New Jersey has a pretty uncertain future, IMO. I go with the experts on this one, no team in the East is really good enough to ever rule anyone out of being able ot win a playoff series.

PSS,


> I think Mr H20 gave


Mr H2O? C'mon man, that's my dad's name.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*my offseason plan for the knicks*

is quite simple

draft the best player available(my personal belief is the win the lotto ) but in case they dont they should just go for the guy with the highest ceiling for stardom at the spot they draft 

offer mourning the MLE the 1st of July 

he wont get more unless there is a sign and trade and in that case offer charlie ward to get Zo more money 

riles loves ward and the the knicks really dont need him

trade Tim thomas for latrell 

Zo 
mcdyess
TT
houston 
eisley 

Kthomas 
S.Anderson
williams
doleac
whomever they draft 

weatherspoon 
O.Harrington 
postell
nailon

these last 4(or any combination) should be used to to facilitate any trades such as the spre 4 thomas , the aquisition of Zo 

getting Zo is a no lose propsition if he falters or simply isn't the guy he was(the latter is most likely) they will have mcdyess and thomas ,

chances are most of the time one of the 2 main interior guys (zo and dice will not be at full stregnth or out for some reason or another in which K.thomas is a good player to have since he plays both power forward and center equally well 

this is a team that can win the east next year


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## Jim Ian (Aug 6, 2002)

HappyGrinch- In a perfect world, I think your proposed lineup would be great. 

However, I wouldn't count on McDyess being healthy next year. I don't think he'll even play until the all-star break. And Mourning is a *total* wild card.

If I was NY's GM, something about hitching your hopes to two guys who (while awsome when healthy) have MAJOR injury issues... just wouldn't sit well with me.

If they could both play 75+ games, your right, they would be a good pick to win the East. But really... I don't think the chances of the happening are real good.


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## H2O (Jul 10, 2002)

Happygrinch, no offense, but it is obvious by more than your avatar that you are not a serious Knicks fan.

Why would you want Mourning? I hate that guy. I don't wish him bad health, but don't you remember any of the Heat/Knicks series? Ward for Mourning, that's blasphemy.

And Mcdyess has little chance of playing a full season again, he is a Tom Gugliota at best, and may never play again at all. Read the papers.

And Postell and Nailon are unrestricted FA's, and in Nailon's case, we don't even have his bird rights, so those two are gone without compensation. And Weatherspoon is largely untradeable.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

Zo on the knicks is about as ridiculous as the thread involving PJ brown to the knicks. I don't think he and ward would get along to well ya know =)


Also, Zo probably won't be able to finish out the season though doctors have cleared him. His kidney disease is to debilitating.


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## H2O (Jul 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Knicksbiggestfan</b>!
> Also, Zo probably won't be able to finish out the season though doctors have cleared him. His kidney disease is to debilitating.


Don't say that, the Heat Fans go nutzz!


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jim Ian</b>!
> HappyGrinch- In a perfect world, I think your proposed lineup would be great.
> 
> However, I wouldn't count on McDyess being healthy next year. I don't think he'll even play until the all-star break. And Mourning is a *total* wild card.
> ...


how ever much he plays or how soon isn't the point any contributions from him (mcdyess ) would likely get the knicks in the playoffs 

and if you only got a half season from mourning (or even less)it would still be worth it as long as he was around for the playoffs 

the knicks have little choice but to hitch their buggys to injury issue filled players like mourning and dice you aren't going to get healthy versions of them for what the knicks are offering


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>H2O</b>!
> Happygrinch, no offense, but it is obvious by more than your avatar that you are not a serious Knicks fan.
> 
> Why would you want Mourning? I hate that guy. I don't wish him bad health, but don't you remember any of the Heat/Knicks series? Ward for Mourning, that's blasphemy.
> ...


in regards to postell and nailon the term you need to aquaint yourself with is sign and trade 

and i wasn't saying ward for mourning was fair i was saying the knicks should get mourning on board and trade ward to the heat so they could pay mourning (think the way grant hill was traded for chucky atkins and ben wallace so they magic could give hill a little more than they could normally) since i actually explained this already maybe you should get a little serious with reading comprehension 

and if you have a problem with players that the knicks played in the playoffs on the new york team you got issues because i assure you layden doesn't


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## H2O (Jul 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> in regards to postell and nailon the term you need to aquaint yourself with is sign and trade


As far as Postell, fine, although I would highly doubt that anyone would give us anyting of value for him, since most places could probably sign him for the minumum. But Nailon being resigned for anything higher than the min would require cutting into our MLE. Neither of these guys are even worth the bother of resigning them in a trade, they will walk, trust me.



> and if you have a problem with players that the knicks played in the playoffs on the new york team you got issues because i assure you layden doesn't


It's part of being a fan of a team. Can someone tell me what is going on? Why are supposed Knicks fans saying that we should bring in Mourning and PJ brown? How 'bout Reggie Miller, I hear he's a free agent? It's ridiculous to want to bring in a player that 90% of fans hate. That's PR, something Layden is probably very concerned with right now.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>H2O</b>!
> 
> 
> As far as Postell, fine, although I would highly doubt that anyone would give us anyting of value for him, since most places could probably sign him for the minumum. But Nailon being resigned for anything higher than the min would require cutting into our MLE. Neither of these guys are even worth the bother of resigning them in a trade, they will walk, trust me.
> ...


how many people really hate mourning ,he's not someone who acts arrogant like a reggie miller ,he had a fight with LJ but i would assume if you took a poll of who was liked better by people who know them Zo' would win in a landside 

plus there is the kidney thing by the time training camp starts he'd be popular maybe as popular as sprewell because i'm quite sure knicks fans had no great love for him before he arrived 

Zo is just one of those players who when you have him on your team you like a lot so i doubt PR would be a big concern ...who boos the guy playing through kidney disease ....outside of boston ,that is


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> how many people really hate mourning ,he's not someone who acts arrogant like a reggie miller ,he had a fight with LJ but i would assume if you took a poll of who was liked better by people who know them Zo' would win in a landside


Not if they were knicks fans.


> plus there is the kidney thing by the time training camp starts he'd be popular maybe as popular as sprewell because i'm quite sure knicks fans had no great love for him before he arrived


So the fact that he has a debilitating kidney injury would make him popular?

As for spreewell, some of us hated some of us liked, the reason some of us liked ( I can only imagine) is that we didn't have a huge rivalry with him, nor did he punch one of our players in the mouth.




> Zo is just one of those players who when you have him on your team you like a lot so i doubt PR would be a big concern ...who boos the guy playing through kidney disease ....outside of boston ,that is



Did you miss us during the 90's or?????


Also Zo will be sitting not playing through his kidney disease.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

did he punch LJ in the mouth ?

i could have sworn they both missed every punch they threw , the only person i saw connect on anything was van gundy to alonzo's leg 

and people always pull for the underdog even if that person just came off 20 million a year contract 

i think there is no doubt that knick fans would love Zo if he were a knick 

he is a very intense talented player who coincedently plays what is considered knick basketball of the 90's 

the media would be on board quicker than rich people on the Titanic , and yes so would the fans ,because at the end of the day fans root for their team especially if the player is any good 

and he is cleared to play the last time he was cleared to play i could have sworn he played like 75 games(even with the same kidney ailment) so there is no reason to assume he couldn't do it again


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> did he punch LJ in the mouth ?


Touche' however it doesn't change his history.



> and people always pull for the underdog even if that person just came off 20 million a year contract


Not when they are tremendous rivals. Also New York is a different town for people that don't produce. Ever hear of the Ewing theory?
(traitorous *******s)


> i think there is no doubt that knick fans would love Zo if he were a knick


We just wouldn't. It's the same if we had reggie miller or PJ brown.



> and he is cleared to play the last time he was cleared to play i could have sworn he played like 75 games(even with the same kidney ailment) so there is no reason to assume he couldn't do it again


So was grant hill this year. Remeber not only does Zo have
focal glumerulosclerosis he is anemic. I condition excerbated by his Indocin. Which he must take for his toe. He is a good center, I will give you that, but he is on the downhill fast.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*knicksbiggestfan*

i think you forget the biggest reason he would be liked 

he gives hope for better things , because more than anything else people want to win 

would Pj brown be liked if he signed the mle ? 

probably and ward would be the 1st to greet him you act as if ward has been scared ever since that little whatever that happened years ago 

in truth they are pretty similar hard working god fearing men who do a lot of charity work and I'm almost certain by now ward and PJ have patched it up , If not it would have boiled over into something else by now ,at the very least words in the media about it ,I think its very safe to asume its long forgotten by the players themselves

and remember when reggie was flirting with the idea of leaving indy during their last contract dispute ?

and he mentioned he wanted to go to nyk?

the knicks brass was salivating at the chance to take a star from the biggest rival at the time. and dont believe for a second they weren't the knicks brass would sleep with hitler's dead body if it meant a champoinship for them if for no other reason than their jobs are on the line they dont really have the luxury of beefing with good players(like zo) over playoff rivalries in the past as both teams are lotto teams as of now 

its why i correlate spree to this ,he was the devil incarnate when the knicks traded for him but inside of 2 months he was the most popular knick in a long time , I honestly believe Zo will have the same effect if anything it might be moreso the press tends to shape opinions and while they didn't always like zo they do now an his intense style of play will win over the fans the press doesn't because at the end of the day people want to win and there is no way Zo at half speed isn't better than doleac at his best


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## H2O (Jul 10, 2002)

As far as Spree, I was skeptical when he first came here, then the first game I watched with him, he nailed like 4 straight J's, and me and all my friends were like "He's allright."

And as far as Zo, I don't want to kick a man when he is down, but he is an A-hole. I had a friend who saw him at a hotel when the Heat were in town, and he walked up to him and said he was a big fan, and asked for an autograph. Zo told him to "Get the hell away from him before he beat the s--t out of him" and walked away. Maybe he was having a bad day, but I don't much care for the guy, and think alot of New Yorkers share that sentiment.

Also, if you really believe he will be healthy next year, then you probably believe that Alanzo and Mcdyess will lead us to the championship in 2004, so there is no need for plans to fix the Knicks.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>H2O</b>!
> As far as Spree, I was skeptical when he first came here, then the first game I watched with him, he nailed like 4 straight J's, and me and all my friends were like "He's allright."
> 
> And as far as Zo, I don't want to kick a man when he is down, but he is an A-hole. I had a friend who saw him at a hotel when the Heat were in town, and he walked up to him and said he was a big fan, and asked for an autograph. Zo told him to "Get the hell away from him before he beat the s--t out of him" and walked away. Maybe he was having a bad day, but I don't much care for the guy, and think alot of New Yorkers share that sentiment.
> ...


i've said its worth the risk to the knicks to a team that capstrapped it wouldn't be wise to throw 5 mil. into mourning but the knicks have the resources to take a chance because if things go reasonably well (think of it like this the knicks were out the playoffs by 3 games how much does mcdyess or mourning actually have to play for them to make the playoffs?) the rewards can be great 

and i never said they couls win a league title i said they could compete for the east conf. title and win it 

the team was set up to need a difference maker in the post 

whether it be camby mcdyess or mourning the fact of the matter any of them playing 50 games probably propels the knicks to 50 wins 

its the difference between having the post play of the knicks as stregnth or a weakness because harrington in the starting line-up doesn't get the job done neither does weatherspoon or doleac ,but kurt thomas and a truly capable power player does what it needs to do to make the knicks successful ...and like it or not differnce makers cost big time $the only way to get one on the cheap is to take aflyer on what is considered damaged goods 

in your mind its not worth the risk even though they signed weatherspoon to the mle and he does nothing that cant be replaced all i'm saying is that to be successful you have to take risks sometimes and i think its worth it to the knicks


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## H2O (Jul 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> in your mind its not worth the risk even though they signed weatherspoon to the mle and he does nothing that cant be replaced all i'm saying is that to be successful you have to take risks sometimes and i think its worth it to the knicks


All I've said is that I don't like Mourning, 'cause I don't. I'm not saying anything about risk, just that I don't like the guy.


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

First of all, I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of you guys understand that the Knicks are SO NOT going to be able to get anything in a sign-and-trade for LAVOR POSTELL or LEE NAILON. Good god. Those two dudes should be happy if they even manage to get a minimum salary contract from somebody to sit at the end of their bench!

Also, I happen to think that New York is a spot where Alonzo Mourning could very well end up. Somebody is going to take a chance on this guy this summer. Keep in mind that Zo has name recognition. Even if he won't stay healthy for very long (if at all), if fans are convinced by the Knicks front office folks that Zo is good to go, that's a good sign for ticket sales, which seems to be more important to the Knicks organization than actually putting a quality team on the floor in recent years. If somebody put a gun to my head and made me predict where I think Zo ends up next season, honestly, I'd say New York, I really would. Teams that are actual contenders will spend their MLE money on something less risky. Dallas, for instance, is trying to win a championship RIGHT NOW. They can get a sure thing with their MLE, somebody like P.J. Brown, for instance. A team like Dallas isn't going to waste its time with Zo. Zo will end up signing with a team that has no choice but to roll the dice, a team like New York. The Wizards are another possibility, I think.

Remember, anybody with any sense last summer understood that McDyess was damaged goods, and that the McDyess trade was pulled off in order to boost ticket sales. Knicks fans (and most other fans) bought into the hype, they ignored reality and believed that McDyess was going to be totally fine. Signing Zo would be a similar move, although he won't cost them Nene Hilario/Amare Stoudemire this time, he'll just cost them, say, $3-$3.5 mil in first year salary.

However, Zo is NOT going to get traded by Miami to ANYBODY. In order for the Heat to have cap room (between $6-$7 mil), they have to RENOUNCE Zo. When they do that, then they lose his Bird rights. The Heat will likely use their $6-$7 mil of cap room to bring in a Michael Olowokandi, which means that the most they will be able to offer Zo is the veteran exception (just over $1 mil). Since somebody out there will give him more than that--at least half the MLE, I think--then Miami will NOT sign this guy, they will NOT sign-and-trade this guy, because they CANNOT sign Zo to the kind of money that he wants.

So, wherever Zo goes, it will be as a free agent, not a sign-and-trade.

H2O is right when he says that New York has a very good chance at being one of the most improved teams in the league next season, and it will be because they can trade their expiring contracts (McDyess, Ward, and Knight) in order to get some pretty decent players. They will probably have to throw in their #9 overall pick, they may also have to throw in the rights to Milos Vujanic, but the bottom line is, the East is going to get worse, not better, next season for various reasons. I obviously don't really know what kinds of trades New York will pull off (although I consider the best bet to involve Atlanta somehow), but I do fully expect them to make some major moves AND to end up BACK IN THE PLAYOFFS.

Now, will the team that ends up back in the playoffs be a contender for the ECF? No, not really. Will Knicks fans get much more than a quick fix? No, not really. But will they be back in the playoffs? I think so.


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