# OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(merge)



## mizenkay

*OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*









*TEAM USA Schedule - Preliminary Round/Sapporo Japan:*

*Game Date - LOCAL Time - Teams - TV/Airdate/Time (USA/Eastern Time)*


Aug. 19 2 p.m. *USA vs. Puerto Rico* _(ESPN2 Aug.19 - 1am ET)_

Aug. 20 7:30 p.m. *USA vs. China* _(ESPN2 Aug. 20 - 6:30 am ET)_

Aug. 22 7:30 p.m. *USA vs. Slovenia* _(ESPN2 Aug. 22 - 6:30am ET)_

Aug. 23 7:30 p.m. *USA vs. Italy* _(ESPN2 Aug 23 - 6:30am ET)_

Aug. 24 7:30 p.m. * USA vs. Senegal* _(ESPN2 Aug 24 - 6:30am ET)_


Team USA Schedule

Full FIBA Television Schedule


*TEAM USA Roster:*

*Carmelo Anthony* (Denver Nuggets) 
*Shane Battier* (Houston Rockets)
*Chris Bosh* (Toronto Raptors)
*Elton Brand* (Los Angeles Clippers)
*Kirk Hinrich* (Chicago Bulls)
*Dwight Howard* (Orlando Magic)
*LeBron James* (Cleveland Cavaliers) 
*Antawn Jamison* (Washington Wizards) 
*Joe Johnson* (Atlanta Hawks) 
*Brad Miller* (Sacramento Kings) 
*Chris Paul* (New Orleans/ Oklahoma City Hornets) 
*Dwyane Wade* (Miami Heat)


Official USA Roster Info/Links











Official FIBA Website

Sign up to WATCH Live/OnDemand Video!


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## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

"Expert Predictions"

*Nocioni* gets props for his defense!

ARGENTINA schedule/roster link


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## Cyanobacteria

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Nice work, Miz. Is that Sweetney in the worlds logo?

A few things to note: 
The US is picked to win by 4 of 6, Argentina and Spain each get a nod.
2 guys picked France as more athletic than the US.
Not a "best shooter" nomination for anyone on the US squad (pack in that zone!).


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## Cyanobacteria

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Also, the predictions forgot to include: Most pain administered: Noc


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## UMfan83

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Funny how some of the writers seem to think that Dirk and Pau Gasol play for team USA.


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## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*











:clown:


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## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Chris "I'm a wet blanket" Sheridan in his Insider column lists Ten Reasons why the USA won't win the gold.

(in a perverse way, i don't think he _wants_ them to, actually, he's been so negative with his coverage to the point of ridiculous)

to wit - my absolute favorite:



> * 9. The smell factor. This is a little disgusting, but it's true:* Some of these teams stink, literally. Players on international teams travel to and from the arenas in their uniforms, and many players forsake showers as a result. I got a really close look at Argentina during the Worlds in Indianapolis, and I do not believe Fabricio Oberto, Luis Scola or *Andres Nocioni* bathed during the entire tournament. B.O. may be repulsive, but it also keeps defenders a few extra inches away.



:whofarted


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## fl_flash

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> :clown:


Hinich and Wade look to be the same height. Chris Paul looks tiny compared to the rest of the team!


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## TomBoerwinkle#1

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

King James sportin' some sweet kicks.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Captain Kirk? Not surprisingly, no.

James and Wade are expected. Given the bad atitude rap that has followed Melo for the past 2 years, he is somewhat a dark horse for captain status. Good for him, though. I think some of his rep has been overblown.

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7004577828



> Anthony, James, Wade Name Tri-Captains For Team USA
> 
> Sapporo, Japan (AHN) - The trio that has reinvigorated the NBA and electrified its fans hopes to do the same on the international stage in the World Championships. Team USA's head coach, Mike Krzyzewski, named Carmelo Anthony, LeBron James and Dwayne Wade tri-captains of the team.
> 
> Anthony, James and Wade will forever be linked through the draft class of 2003, in which the three superstars accounted for three of the top five picks. Chris Bosh, the fourth overall pick in that draft, is also on the team.
> 
> The three are good friends and were in close contact this off-season when each were negotiating contract extensions with their respective teams.
> 
> Coach Mike Krzyzewski told the AP, deciding the captains was the easiest decision he's had to make in his new position.
> 
> "It was a pretty easy decision to select those three guys," Krzyzewski said. "From the very start they have asserted themselves and showed leadership through how hard they worked, their cooperation and the fact that they wanted to be like everyone else. They didn't come in as stars, they came in as members of the team. Everyone looks up to them and they look up to them even more now because they have set such a good example."
> 
> The three stars have been the top three scorers for the US in the team's first five exhibition games. Anthony leads the team with an average of 16.8 points. James was next with 15.8 and Wade averaged 12.2 points and four assists.
> 
> Anthony told usabasketball.com all three of them know what it takes to win this tournament.
> 
> "We, as in myself, LeBron and Dwyane, are honored. We're experienced, we know what we have to do to succeed. I know it means more responsibilities, so we have to go out there and take care of business on and off the court," said Anthony.
> 
> Both Anthony and James played with the 2004 Olympic team. The team took the bronze, but also lost three times. Neither James or Anthony played a big part, as they struggled to get playing time on the team led by Larry Brown.
> 
> James told usabasketball.com he wants to make this competition a better experience than his trip to the Olympics.
> 
> "This means a lot to be captain with two good friends of mine. To not have had the best experience in 2004 and to now be a captain on the 2006 World Championship team, well, this means a lot," stated James. "I'm very excited about being a captain because I am a leader. It's a big responsibility for us three being captains and going out and representing our country in the right way. You've got to show leadership on the court and off the court and you've got to show responsibility. We have to approach the game the right way and take care of business."
> 
> Wade told usabasketball.com he's excited to be a captain on a team with so many great players.
> 
> "It's great to be captain of such a prestigious USA Basketball team that has a lot of older guys who you respect. To be one of the young guys with LeBron and Carmelo, and for us to be named captains and to help lead the way means a lot to us. Being a captain means being a leader at all times, when things are great and when things are bad - always being a leader," said Wade.
> 
> James and Anthony stand-out among the forwards along with Chris Bosh of the Toronto Raptors, Elton Brand of the Los Angeles Clippers, Antawn Jamison of the Washington Wizards and Shane Battier of the Houston Rockets.
> 
> Wade will be joined in the backcourt by New Orleans Hornets point guard Chris Paul, Chicago Bulls guard Kirk Hinrich and Atlanta Hawks sharpshooter Joe Johnson.
> 
> Dwight Howard of the Orlando Magic and Brad Miller of the Sacramento Kings are the centers.
> 
> The United States will open the World Championships against Puerto Rico on Saturday. They have been placed in Group D for the preliminary round. Group D consists of: the United States, Puerto Rico, China, Senegal, Slovenia and Italy.
> 
> Team USA will be looking to avenge their horrific finish in the 2002 World Championships. The US lost three games that tournament and finished in sixth place.


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## Cyanobacteria

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Sheridan probably shouldn't have called out individuals or countries that smelled, but I have to admit, when I went to the Worlds in Indi, the lobby of our hotel was _RIPE_.


That team USA picture is awesome, Sears must be thrilled to have their sportswear featured so prominently. Don't these guys have enough time on their hands to watch ***** Eye for the Straight Guy? D-Wade's jacket is down to his knees. 'Melo's tie has hung a Louie. And the rule for buttons on a 3-button jacket? From top to bottom: 1) Always (see Battier for *all* the reasons why) 2) Sometimes (see Joe Johnson for why you should usually opt for 'sometimes' instead of 'sometimes not') and 3) Never (numerous bad examples, but Bron-Bron and CP3 have their stuff together).


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## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Michael Kors. Ralph Lauren. Kenneth Cole. Donna Karan. 

just a few American menswear designers TEAM USA could have called to "design" the new respectable public "look" for the team.

this, however, is offensive to my delicate fashion sensibilites. Sears? it's like they went shopping at Robert Hall on their way to the Elks Lodge.

really, really bad.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Cyanobacteria said:


> That team USA picture is awesome, Sears must be thrilled to have their sportswear featured so prominently. Don't these guys have enough time on their hands to watch ***** Eye for the Straight Guy? D-Wade's jacket is down to his knees. 'Melo's tie has hung a Louie. And the rule for buttons on a 3-button jacket? From top to bottom: 1) Always (see Battier for *all* the reasons why) 2) Sometimes (see Joe Johnson for why you should usually opt for 'sometimes' instead of 'sometimes not') and 3) Never (numerous bad examples, but Bron-Bron and CP3 have their stuff together).


OK, if we are actually going to be fashion *****es, I would add as much as I did already call out 'Bron's shoes, he and 'Melo apparently never heard that tan and brown shoes don't go with grey pants.


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## Cyanobacteria

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> OK, if we are actually going to be fashion *****es, I would add as much as I did already call out 'Bron's shoes, he and 'Melo apparently never heard that tan and brown shoes don't go with grey pants.



Those pocket squares are probably dirty socks.


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## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

in other (non-fashion) related FIBA news, *Tony Parker* is OFF the roster for France after breaking his right index finger in an exhibition game. France plays Argentina (NOCIONI!) on Saturday at 4pm ET on NBA TV.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/basketball/more/08/18/bc.bko.worlds.parker.ap/index.html


chris sheridan will still probably pick France over USA anyway. Like, _anyone_ over the USA according to his negative ***.


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## LegoHat

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> in other (non-fashion) related FIBA news, *Tony Parker* is OFF the roster for France after breaking his right index finger in an exhibition game. France plays Argentina (NOCIONI!) on Saturday at 4pm ET on NBA TV.
> 
> 
> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/basketball/more/08/18/bc.bko.worlds.parker.ap/index.html
> 
> 
> chris sheridan will still probably pick France over USA anyway. Like, _anyone_ over the USA according to his negative ***.


Extrmely tough blow for the French team, I think this means they're out of the running for a medal, but I'd like to be proven wrong. I really like where their team is headed, and they will have a great future, and will likely be one of the best teams in the olympics in 2008, with Noah, Batum and Ajinca possibly added to the team.

Tony can't be very happy right now.


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## narek

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> OK, if we are actually going to be fashion *****es, I would add as much as I did already call out 'Bron's shoes, he and 'Melo apparently never heard that tan and brown shoes don't go with grey pants.


Those shoes just crack me up. The pointy toes belong as stage scenary in Wicked.


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## girllovesthegame

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Coaches added to this pic...


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## Diable

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

I wonder where I can a get pair of those shoes like Carmelo is wearing...

Who is that to Chris Paul's left?Is it Rudy T?If it is he looks really really old now


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## Hustle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Diable said:


> Who is that to Chris Paul's left?Is it Rudy T?If it is he looks really really old now


yup


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## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

:laugh:

earlier today i sent off a quick, pithy, semi-venting email to chris sheridan to let him know i thought he was being a wet blanket in his coverage of Team USA and his negativity towards the team. asked him if maybe they shouldn't put an additional reporter on the story for a bit of balance. 

he wrote back.


_*I am not as self-centered as you seem to believe.* I want them to win, I just don't think they will. I'm trying to write about this team objectively, and *I'm the only guy covering them who has enough experience covering various Team USA's to write about them the way I do.* But I have no agenda here. I'm just trying to inform my readers and bring a healthy dose of skepticism to the table. Let's see how this thing goes._

more like an overdose.


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## ScottMay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> :laugh:
> 
> earlier today i sent off a quick, pithy, semi-venting email to chris sheridan to let him know i thought he was being a wet blanket in his coverage of Team USA and his negativity towards the team. asked him if maybe they shouldn't put an additional reporter on the story for a bit of balance.
> 
> he wrote back.
> 
> 
> _*I am not as self-centered as you seem to believe.* I want them to win, I just don't think they will. I'm trying to write about this team objectively, and *I'm the only guy covering them who has enough experience covering various Team USA's to write about them the way I do.* But I have no agenda here. I'm just trying to inform my readers and bring a healthy dose of skepticism to the table. Let's see how this thing goes._
> 
> more like an overdose.


I think Sheridan's doing a fine enough job. He's a writer, not a cheerleader.

And I think given the results of our last two major international tournaments, skepticism is absolutely warranted. It sounds kind of crazy, but amongst the teams that are contenders, we have far more question marks than any of them, except for the raw talent part (which has meant bupkus recently).

Here's another article that basically says the USA team is guilty until proven innocent. It ain't just Sheridan.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/chris_mannix/08/17/team.usa/index.html


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## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

yeah, i read that Mannix article too.

not asking (and didn't ask) Sheridan to be a cheerleader. but to say that one of the reasons (as he did today) that Team USA will lose is cause the other team SMELLS BAD, just reeks (pun intended) of bias and well, pettiness. 

yes, this team has to prove themselves. 

Sheridan and Mannix are writing Team USA's obit a little prematurely, IMO.


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## Goubot

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

It's all well and good to be skeptical, but this guy is pulling stuff out of air to put the US down. I mean, we're gonna lose because European players smell and the players might not like Japanese food? Yeah, okay.

To be fair, he did list some legitimate concerns, but his newest article was ridiculous. It's weird, I usually don't have too big a problem with Sheridan.


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## Anima

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> King James sportin' some sweet kicks.


 Forget LJ, what about Melo? It looks like he's wearing snake skin cowboy boots. :sour:


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## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Wow, Hinrich looks good. He looks like he knows how to play transition ball now, which is good for the Bulls, no more clunky fastbreaks!

Arroyo was trying to start a fight with Hinrich, but the ref broke it up right away.


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## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Peurto Rico up by 1 after 1. Some bull**** reffing. Chris Bosh and Chris Paul look terrible as usual. The Puerto Rican bigs are dominating us. We are really going to need Oden for the next olympics, its a shame no Duncan this year, he was the best player in the Olympics.

Arroyo has like 3 fouls already though, so he should be fouled out soon.


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## Darius Miles Davis

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Kirk is playing very solid ball. He's playing conservatively on offense, only shooting when open, and he's making the simple pass to the open man. Despite his excellent defense, he did get schooled by Del Mau (sp?) that one time.


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## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> :clown:


That portrait is SCREAMING to be Photoshopped.

Hmmm, if I get any free time this weekend (HA!) ...

I came home in time for the 4th quarter am watching it now but I don't hold optimism that my recording will work. Not surprised to see a double digit lead ... but its down to a 12 point lead with about 4 minutes left.

Regarding the articles by Sheridan and Mannix, I tend to agree that maybe there's a little too much pessimism but somebody has to be a gloomy gus. To me this team is dedicated to burying the bad feelings of the previous team. I'll let these writers be gloomy ... maybe their pessimism will prove to be unfounded. I hope.

Oh -- Hinrich with the 3 with 3 minutes and change left.

EDIT: Dammit to hell I put a bad disk in my DVR. So all I got to see was the 4th quarter (I guess that's the only one that matters!) But still ... :curse:


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## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Australia beat brazil. Anyone know how good Luke did?


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## Cyanobacteria

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

I thought Kirk had a nice Kirk-game. He played the Kirk-roll well: pushed the tempo, moved the ball, hit some open 3's, hit his free throws, frustrated the crap out of the Puerto Rico guards even if they got by him a couple of times. Only downsides were fouling Arroyo on a 3 and losing track of 3-point shooters a couple of times, but that was a team-wide problem.

International officiating almost makes the games unwatchable. You know it's bad and you're not just a homer when both teams think they're getting hosed and they're both right. It looked like both teams were just laughing at some of the calls by the end of the game. These guys make NBA officials look omniscient.

All of team USA has to keep their heads on straight and in the game. It'll be a tough test for a young team, we may see a lot of growth or a complete implosion in these guys by the end of the tourney. There's going to be calls they don't like and some they don't even understand (like when they took Kirk's jumper off the scoreboard, reversed the space-time continuum by 10 seconds, and called a technical on the US for a 3 possesion/4+ point turn-around, hilarious!)

...and yes I plan to copyright "Kirk-game" and "Kirk-roll"


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## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Fine, but I'm copyrighting Kirk-role.


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## Cyanobacteria

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Sloth, as long you're editing, you might as well put a verb in the last sentence of your signiture.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/wbc2006/news/story?id=2554537

Recap: apparently Josh Howard was added to the squad during the game.

"We wanted to come out and play our type of basketball and we didn't come out the way we wanted," Hinrich said. "That had to do a lot with Puerto Rico -- their effort."


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## LegoHat

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

I'm surprised that Australia beat Brazil, I really thought the Brazilian's were going to make some noise in this tournament, but they didn't look nearly as strong as they did against the US.


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## LegoHat

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

ESPN: New Zealand guard Dickel suspended for doping 



> HIROSHIMA, Japan -- New Zealand point guard Mark Dickel will miss the first three games of the world championships as part of a 10-day suspension from FIBA for failing a drug test last month.
> 
> Dickel was suspended by his national federation for two games after failing a drug test taken in July, and was included on the team's roster for the world championships on Saturday. But FIBA met Friday night and determined New Zealand's punishment wasn't enough and imposed a 10-day suspension that means he will miss New Zealand's first three games, starting with Saturday night's meeting with Spain.
> 
> The 6-foot-2 Dickel, a member of the national team since the 2000 Olympics, was suspended by Basketball New Zealand last week after testing positive for cannabis in results returned Aug. 11. Dickel, who played at UNLV from 1996-2000, missed two exhibition games against Qatar.
> 
> FIBA's drug regulations, which follow the WADA code, call for a two-year suspension for a first violation. However, in a case of "specified substances," such as cannabis, when the player can prove he did not intend to enhance his performance by using the substance, the range of sanctions is from a warning up to one year of ineligibility.
> 
> Basketball New Zealand acting chief executive Barry Wilson said he was disappointed with the sanction.
> 
> "It must bring into question the status and validity of the New Zealand anti-doping process and the need for another hearing process here," Wilson said in a statement.
> 
> New Zealand finished fourth in the 2002 world championships with Dickel averaging 6.7 points and 4.6 assists.
> 
> Dickel, who played last season for Lokomotiv Rostov in Russia, will also miss games against Germany and Angola. He will be eligible for the last two games of the first round against Japan and Panama. The top four teams in each of the six-team groups advance to the single-elimination round of 16.


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## LegoHat

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Boxscores:

SERBIA & MONTENEGRO vs NIGERIA 75-82 

PUERTO RICO vs USA 100-111

VENEZUELA vs LEBANON 72-82

BRAZIL vs AUSTRALIA 77-83

GERMANY vs JAPAN  81-70

GREECE vs QATAR 84-64

SLOVENIA vs SENEGAL 96-79

ANGOLA vs PANAMA 83-70


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## LegoHat

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Our very own Bull Andrés Nocioni and Argentina are playing the Tony Parker-less France right now, and Argentina is leading 44-33 at the half. 

Ginobili and Noc are leading the way for Argentina with 14 and 12 points respectively, looks like France will miss Parker a lot, but Diaw is stepping up in his absence.


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## narek

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Brian Windhorst is covering the games for the Akron Beacon Journal, and updating his blog with the non-game stories:

http://blogs.ohio.com/cavaliers_blog/



> The arena is more like an auditorium with carpet that swallows sound and there's almost no echo because I think the building doubles as a concert hall. So even from the second deck you could hear things going on down on the court and on the U.S. bench. Especially when Mike Krzyzewski cussed out his team after a lethargic start in the first quarter.
> 
> At one point an American fan angry with a call from the upper deck yelled down "You suck, ref." I could hear him as if he were next to me. The Japanese fans gasped, seemingly upset at the breech of order and the challenge of authority.
> 
> To combat this quiet atmosphere, Team USA is openly standing and cheering for each other as if it was a Saturday morning junior varsity game and everyone in the place can hear them. Coming from an enviornment where these guys are mobbed megastars and seeing them play this way is just...bizarre.


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## Goubot

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Yikes, Nigeria beat Serbia? Never would've seen that coming. 

Anyhow, I caught the game (haven't seen any boxscores), and I have some random observations:

-Puerto Rico's guards were getting to the rim at will, and the US didn't even do well defending long-ranged jumpers (though they were hitting some crazy shots). 

-Lots of gambling for steals here. This was fine when it worked out because it usually led to a dunk the other way but when we missed the steal, we almost always payed for it. 

-In general, the US had a lot of poorly chosen long-range jumpers, but that could be a reaction to a defensive style they're not entirely used to. This got better as the game went on, I think. 

-Nice shooting by Joe Johnson. Sheridan thought he would flame out. 

-Officiating, as mentioned by one of the commentators, was "uneven." Refs are extremely quick with whistles, and one call was even taken back shortly after it was made. And yet there were some very obvious non-calls. I can see why Tim Duncan hates it. 

-The tri-captains all looked pretty good, especially Carmelo (though I guess LeBron took a lot of threes he shouldn't have and I guess Wade wasn't that good). Still not enough to break the game open, but I haven't decided how much blowing people out matters rather than just winning. It's always a nice feeling to beat someone fifty, but in the end a win is a win. 

-I admire Puerto Rico's tenacity. They played hard from beginning to end and fought hard even when they were down 20. I know they're known for that, but it's still impressive to see. I guess it's somewhat surprising because they're not especially talented.


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## LegoHat

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Ex-Bull Darius Songaila also played today, his Lithuania team lost 74-76 to Turkey. Darius had a good game with 14 points, 9 rebounds and 4 assists. 

Macijauskas, who apparently wasn't good enough to play 5 minutes a game for the Hornets, had 24 points shooting 4/7 from three point range. I guess Byron Scott knows best... 

Boxscore


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## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Wasn't Luke Schenscher practicing with the Australian national team? Did he get cut or something?


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## thebullybully

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

I thought overall the game was well played by both sides, and I enjoyed the batlle of the guards. All the PR guards made good drives to the basket, but really in the fourth qarter near-comeback run, Team USA has gone into exhibition mode. No help d, no pressure, lots of flashy dunk attempts (misses,) exactly what they aren't supposed to be about.

K then sent in some finishers to keep up the pressure and close it out, although Chris Paul got to stay in I guess because he apologized immediately for his stupid flashy move that resulted in no points. 

I loved the moment when Bosh got switched onto a guard. He did a great job in that moment out there one on one on the perimeter hunched way down to be eye to eye with the little guy. Stayed in front of him too. That was unexpected.

I thought the D was pretty bad in the first quarter and wondered when Coach K was going to send in Battier to tell them what's what. He waited way longer than I would have, that's for sure.


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## narek

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



sloth said:


> Wasn't Luke Schenscher practicing with the Australian national team? Did he get cut or something?


No, he wasn't. He decided to stay in Chicago and work with the Bulls staff.


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## The Krakken

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Is it just me, or does it seem like USA basketball right now is being marketed as "Bron, Melo and Wade.......and everyone else"?

Even in the pictures on Page 2, they are right next to each other, despite the fact that for the purposes of a cohesive portrait, Wade should be closer to Hinrich, Paul and Joe Johnson. And battier should be closer to Bron and Melo.

I know the photographer knew this, since its basic portrait photography 101. As a photographer, we can be tempermental about having our portraits messed with, but I am 100% certain that someone in MARKETING selected that setup. It just isn't the one that a competent portrait photographer would have picked. Its terrible.

But that said, its clear to me that the Marketing gurus just won't take their hands off this team. I don't see the country as a whole embracing this team, until they show us a team, instead of trying to market the sum of individual parts.

The USA basketball commitee may have selected a "team" but they are still very much marketing them as individual superstars in the public arena.

:nonono:


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

The captains and the coaches were in the front row.


----------



## Hustle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

The USA team will not win gold with this defense, there was absolutly no help whatsoever, way too much gambling.

The lineup of Wade, Paul, Howard, Lebron and Wade was by far the best. But Paul seemed to be the weak link, and I would like to see Hinrich get a chance with those guys, Kirk would've done a much better job on Arroyo who killed Paul last night. Kirk's shooting would also probably be more helpful than Paul's penetration on offense, the tri-captians can do that on their own.


----------



## The Krakken

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Captain Kirk? Not surprisingly, no.
> 
> James and Wade are expected. Given the bad atitude rap that has followed Melo for the past 2 years, he is somewhat a dark horse for captain status. Good for him, though. I think some of his rep has been overblown.
> 
> http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7004577828


NBA marketing at its best.


----------



## thebullybully

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Yes Yes Yes!!!

We talked about this just a bit during an exhibition game, but I think it's actually getting worse. I hate marketing sooo much, and this is just another example of suits trying to force an agenda. Marketing is ruining the integrity of any industry based on creativity or talent.

Let the stars evolve naturally. It will happen. It's just that the suits want to control who it is from the get go, not wait until the game is played and see who the real player of the game or leader is.


----------



## The Krakken

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



sloth said:


> The captains and the coaches were in the front row.


Yeah, unlike in years past where the captains and coaches took separate pictures in addition to these to show who the captains were. :angel: 

I still remember the Jordan, Bird, Magic photoshoot. When in a group though, they didn't separate themselves from the rest of the team, by having the rest of the team stand behind them. I know they didnt do that here. It was the decision of some marketing "guru".


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

yeah, the whole class of 2003 three captains leading the way story is already a bit forced.

but meanwhile, which member of the class of 2003 did the postgame press conference with Coach K? none other than Kirk! ha.

he had a nice "kirk-game" _(copyrighted by CyBac)_ and shot the ball well. too bad that stupid technical foul negated his first points. that was cause ANTHONY inbounded the ball and he wasn't even on the floor at the time. duh.

and after reading the game quotes about how they started off slow, etc. i am hoping to see a different starting line-up for china.

how about kirk and wade to start in the backcourt, with carmelo, brand and miller? (gonna need that size against yao). i would LOVE to see lebron (who honestly cannot refer to anything or anyone but himself) come off the BENCH!

:clown:

_oh, and someone does need to photoshop fezzes onto the heads of the players and the coaches. then they'd all look like shriners!! _


----------



## VincentVega

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Hustle said:



> The USA team will not win gold with this defense, there was absolutly no help whatsoever, way too much gambling.
> 
> The lineup of Wade, Paul, Howard, Lebron and Wade was by far the best. But Paul seemed to be the weak link, and I would like to see Hinrich get a chance with those guys, Kirk would've done a much better job on Arroyo who killed Paul last night. Kirk's shooting would also probably be more helpful than Paul's penetration on offense, the tri-captians can do that on their own.


Agreed 100%.


----------



## Hustle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

The tri-captains are the best players, but I really can't imagine any of them saying something important or inspiring to Brand, Miller, Jamison, even Kirk that matter. But to be honest I never understood what a captain brought to the table, is the C on the jersey a reminder to the veteran players to help the youngsters, the stars to embrace the rest of the team? Seems to me leadership is leadership.


----------



## thebullybully

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

I think captains are actually more important in other sports where coaches are farther away from the action. Coach K can clearly be heard making all decisions in that quiet gym. I would think setting the tone dictated by the Coach by example would be the most important part of the job. I think all three of these captains are capable of inspiring some good offense, but not really to defense yet. I hope it happens soon. I don't want to see another lame first quarter like last night again, or another late game intensity drop off even if they are up by 40.

Thanks goodness for the role players. I hate that word so much. A role is an act. I think the people on this team playing hard and doing the grit and glue stuff, to use more of my least favorite words, don't need an annointed jersey to tell them make the commitment they have made. They are just there throwing themselves at loose balls, getting back on D, and taking the shots they are supposed to take in the offense.

It's just something people seem to need to do. Name captains, have titles, create heirarchies. Adversity is the only way you find out who the true leaders are.


----------



## the-asdf-man

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

is it just me or does that boxscore say that chris paul had 9 personal fouls?


props to hinrich for getting better stats than chris paul while playing half the no. of minutes


----------



## Bullsky

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Chris Paul is a turnover machine. He tries to do too much. I liked the comment last night about Kirk behind Stockton-like. Hmmmm, I like that!


----------



## Diable

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



the-asdf-man said:


> is it just me or does that boxscore say that chris paul had 9 personal fouls?
> 
> 
> props to hinrich for getting better stats than chris paul while playing half the no. of minutes


Fouls and assists were transposed in some boxscores.Paul had 11 points,9 assists,5 steals,3 rebounds and 1 turnover.He only had 4 personal fouls.

BOXSCORE (correct boxscore)​HInrich audio interview mp3​


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

What times the game going to be on at?


----------



## narek

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



sloth said:


> What times the game going to be on at?


5:30 Am Central time, so go to bed! :biggrin:


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



narek said:


> 5:30 Am Central time, so go to bed! :biggrin:


Or don't go to bed...hmm....


----------



## Hustle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



sloth said:


> Or don't go to bed...hmm....


I going down the middle, sleep 4 hours before and after.


----------



## Bullsky

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Hustle said:


> I going down the middle, sleep 4 hours before and after.


Good plan. Unfortunately, when I'm up, I'm up for hours. Hopefully I can sleep a bit earlier tonight though. I want to see Captain Kirk light up on the chinese guards!


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> yeah, the whole class of 2003 three captains leading the way story is already a bit forced.
> 
> but meanwhile, which member of the class of 2003 did the postgame press conference with Coach K? none other than Kirk! ha.
> 
> he had a nice "kirk-game" _(copyrighted by CyBac)_ and shot the ball well. too bad that stupid technical foul negated his first points. that was cause ANTHONY inbounded the ball and he wasn't even on the floor at the time. duh.
> 
> and after reading the game quotes about how they started off slow, etc. i am hoping to see a different starting line-up for china.
> 
> how about kirk and wade to start in the backcourt, with carmelo, brand and miller? (gonna need that size against yao). i would LOVE to see lebron (who honestly cannot refer to anything or anyone but himself) come off the BENCH!
> 
> :clown:
> 
> _oh, and someone does need to photoshop fezzes onto the heads of the players and the coaches. then they'd all look like shriners!! _


I'm trying to find one of those black boards that you can put white letters on that they use for school group portraits, a nun, and a picture of a stage in an elementary-school auditorium.

As to the "NBA marketing" thing ... I have noticed that it seems A LOT of the pics from Getty Images, etc., tend to be of LeBron, Melo and DWade and not so much of the other guys. It doesn't seem intended but it makes guys like Hinrich, Battier, Miller, even Paul sort of look like also-rans and maybe less important.

I guess I'm the only one awake? Game tips in about 5 minutes. And then when the game's over I get to go to work.


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Anthony, Battier, Howard, Paul, and James make up the starters against China.

Paul's good but Hinrich plays better D -- MUCH better D. So why's he not starting?

Battier with the 3 to draw first blood and so far with all the USA scoring.


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

D-Howard has been to the line 2 x already. How do they know they're not stepping OVER the FT line with that big Toyota logo there?

Hinrich in -- Paul is having his knee looked at or something.

19-8 with 5:24 left. I guess maybe my concerns about defense were unfounded, no?


----------



## Dancon7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

If anybody has up to date salary info handy I've got an assignment for you:

A) Figure out the total "salary" for the USA team and...
B) Is it lower than the Knicks payroll?


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Yao looks good even though he's a little rusty (foot surgery).

28-10, 2:48 to go ... On the floor -- Hinrich, Johnson, Brand, DWade and maybe Jamison. Fran Fraschilla (sic) said that Hinrich is continuing to open eyes with his play.


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

End of 1st Quarter -- 32-17 USA. 

Just guessing on the salaries ... but anything is lower than the Knicks payroll right about now.

I am really liking this basketball better than NBA ball right about now for some reason.

USA is showing great ball movement in this game. China looked good for a while but early on they're really being owned.

To start the 2d quarter, starters back out.


----------



## Diable

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Half the team is still on rookie deals....Hinrich,James,Wade,Anthony and Bosh going into the last year of their deals...Howard going into his 3rd year and Paul his 2nd....probably adds up to less than 30 million

...of course the year after next four of them will get Max deals.


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

End of first half. 63-38 USA. A game that is now completely devoid of suspense and now looks like another "The United States is a great big truck and everybody else is roadkill in their way."

Hinrich without a lot of points but he's just got to be out there for his ballhandling and defense as Paul (whose knee appears to be okay) is having a nice game, but is it right for me to be connecting the widening of the USA's lead happening when Hinrich just happens to be on the floor? Yes I think there's a reason for that.

One really interesting stat: China -- 12 turnovers; USA -- 2 turnovers. TWO!


----------



## narek

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Jim Durham and Fran Fraschilla are in Briston, Connecticut calling the games. 



> Fran Fraschilla, ESPN2's game analyst for the world basketball championship in Japan, expects the food on this assignment will be pretty bad. "The ESPN cafeteria is open 24 hours," he says. "But after midnight, the pizza gets nasty."
> 
> He'll find out. Fraschilla, with play-by-play partner Jim Durham, will call games off TV monitors in ESPN's Bristol, Conn., offices that, because of the 12-hour time difference, will make it easy for them to get parking spaces.


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



narek said:


> Jim Durham and Fran Fraschilla are in Briston, Connecticut calling the games.


Wow what a ripoff.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



narek said:


> Jim Durham and Fran Fraschilla are in Briston, Connecticut calling the games.



that's just lame. well at least they won't have to worry about the smell either.

:clown:


USA looks more relaxed out there today. i cannot believe i got up this early on a sunday.


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Maybe its just me but the USA suddenly looks ice cold in the third and look lost and disorganized. China is going on a run, a lot of them thanks to sharpshooting SP Wang, who has 5 3 point FGs.


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

... until Krzyzewski put that second unit (Hinrich, Wade, et cetera) back in. That unit, at least to me, is a lot more pesty on D and just shredding China. Sorry I sound like a broken record.

90-57, 2 minutes in 3d quarter.


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Well it was a blowout a long time ago, but with 4:31 left, give or take a point, it's 111-77 USA (there have been some scoring accuracy difficulties).

This China team is young and maybe a little raw. I am anxious to see how USA does against more stout competition.


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Final -- 122-90 USA.

Slovenia, Italy, and Senegal coming up ... all games at 5:30 a.m. Central Time on ESPN2.


----------



## ChiBron

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Wade and Howard get the game ball for today's game. Great 2-way play from both guys. Howard's a straight up beast. He's Team MVP if you ask me.


----------



## Hustle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



SPMJ said:


> Wade and Howard get the game ball for today's game. Great 2-way play from both guys. Howard's a straight up beast. He's Team MVP if you ask me.


I would say definitly the most important player.


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

I caught some insomia and didn't see that game until the USA was over 100.....then I turned it off, I imagine USA won?


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Does anyone have a link to a box score for USA/China?


----------



## LegoHat

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Yes:

China-USA boxscore


----------



## TripleDouble

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Am I the only one rooting for US to lose? What fun is it rooting for physically superior players to beat up on less gifted players?


----------



## girllovesthegame

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



LegoHat said:


> Yes:
> 
> China-USA boxscore


I noticed Paul's assists and foul numbers are switched in that boxscore.


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



girllovesthegame said:


> I noticed Paul's assists and foul numbers are switched in that boxscore.


I did as well ... just out of curiosity I wanted to see what the player profiles were like on that site and I clicked on multiple names and kept getting Dirk Nowitzki's profile on each one. Either its a buggy site because I don't think there's anything wrong with my browser.


----------



## girllovesthegame

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



soonerterp said:


> I did as well ... just out of curiosity I wanted to see what the player profiles were like on that site and I clicked on multiple names and kept getting Dirk Nowitzki's profile on each one. Either its a buggy site because I don't think there's anything wrong with my browser.


Try refreshing your page. The player profiles just worked fine for me. Or try this very long link. Hopefully it'll work.

http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/06...r=black&roundID=3507&selTopLevNodeID=#BUKWA_P


----------



## Diable

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Assists and Personal fouls are transposed for everyone in that box.They did the same thing in the first game.Usabasketball.com has a correct  boxscore


----------



## LegoHat

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



soonerterp said:


> I did as well ... just out of curiosity I wanted to see what the player profiles were like on that site and I clicked on multiple names and kept getting Dirk Nowitzki's profile on each one. Either its a buggy site because I don't think there's anything wrong with my browser.


That happened for me as well, but it turned out to be a blessing in disguise. I wouldn't have seen this great picture of Nowitzki, which must be about 10 years old:










:rofl:


----------



## YoYoYoWasup

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

The player profiles are on there, they are just under Nowitzki's profile. His is always on there for some reason.


----------



## narek

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

We have some Kirk pictures from the game:










and


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



TripleDouble said:


> Am I the only one rooting for US to lose? What fun is it rooting for physically superior players to beat up on less gifted players?


We got 6th in 2002, and 3rd in 2004, we haven't been on top since 2000. We aren't this superpower anymore, we're more like Duke now, a very good team every year, but now mortal.


----------



## Cyanobacteria

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Another nice "Kirk-game" for Kirk. Except for 3 steals his statline doesn't really show his effect on the game. After China put up a 10-0 run to start the 3rd, Kirk's unit came in and turned up the defensive pressure. I know I'm a homer but Kirk's pressure on the ball keyed the pressure, it's not something the announcers bring up, but I'm sure the coaches have the eye for it. The rest of that qurter went 34-14 if you can trust the quarter score in the box score (which of course you can't because they weren''t really sure of the score at the game). Does anyone know if the espn score and timer grapics are being run in Bristol as well? That would explain the score being off and the timer never really being in sinc with the buzzer.


----------



## such sweet thunder

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Cyanobacteria said:


> Another nice "Kirk-game" for Kirk. Except for 3 steals his statline doesn't really show his effect on the game. After China put up a 10-0 run to start the 3rd, Kirk's unit came in and turned up the defensive pressure. I know I'm a homer but Kirk's pressure on the ball keyed the pressure, it's not something the announcers bring up, but I'm sure the coaches have the eye for it. The rest of that qurter went 34-14 if you can trust the quarter score in the box score (which of course you can't because they weren''t really sure of the score at the game). Does anyone know if the espn score and timer grapics are being run in Bristol as well? That would explain the score being off and the timer never really being in sinc with the buzzer.


 Kirk works perfectly with Chris Paul. Still haven't been able to catch a World Championships game, but I just finished watching the Korea and Lithuania friendlies on Itunes. They bring such different energy to the game; it's a ying-yang thing.

Kirk brings the tough defense, the range, and the more controlled focused play. Paul brings the energy and creates through penetration. Kirk helps get the team into the offense and running the high pick-and-roll stuff (that is very similar to the basic stuff the Bulls use). Paul pushes the team into a transition game.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LzSjn9lBbJ4"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LzSjn9lBbJ4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>



team usa dunkfest from when they practiced in korea. 

kirk with a reverse dunk (_whoaa!_) and dwight howard with a filthy slam at the end. just sick.


----------



## kulaz3000

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LzSjn9lBbJ4"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LzSjn9lBbJ4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
> 
> 
> 
> team usa dunkfest from when they practiced in korea.
> 
> kirk with a reverse dunk (_whoaa!_) and dwight howard with a filthy slam at the end. just sick.



Yes, there is always the KG trade talk, even Lebron trade talks. But what about Dwight Howard, this kids has shown steady improvement in his game and body every single year, his an absolute beast. I wouldn't mind trading up some pieces for him. 

NY pick
Ben Gordon
T.Thomas

I mean why not? He is only going to become better and better. forget about trying to get KG here, id much prefer trying to get Dwight Howard. 

D.Howard
Big Ben
Deng
Safoloasha
Hinrich

Noc


----------



## step

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



> I mean why not? He is only going to become better and better. forget about trying to get KG here, id much prefer trying to get Dwight Howard.


The day Orlando willingly trades Dwight is the day that hell freezes over.


----------



## kulaz3000

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



step said:


> The day Orlando willingly trades Dwight is the day that hell freezes over.


I think thats obvious, but the point was, i would prefer to trade for him over anyone else in the league right now. I mean on a random day, Paxson should offer them a package and they may bite who ever knows. But to think we missed on Curry, and Chandler as they were high school kids, and then this kid comes out of nowhere and blows our two high school bigs away and his only been in the league a whole 3 years.


----------



## Hustle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

anyone know where I can get a transcrpit of the PR game?

I was hoping to check out whether in Kirk's last rotation into the game if the US was up by 10 or 12 when he entered. If it was 10, the US has outscored the opposing team in every chunk of minutes Kirk has gotten, haven't been keeping track of Paul as much but he has been outscored at least 3 times, and been even at least once.


----------



## girllovesthegame

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Hustle said:


> anyone know where I can get a transcrpit of the PR game?
> 
> I was hoping to check out whether in Kirk's last rotation into the game if the US was up by 10 or 12 when he entered. If it was 10, the US has outscored the opposing team in every chunk of minutes Kirk has gotten, haven't been keeping track of Paul as much but he has been outscored at least 3 times, and been even at least once.


 :laugh: Doesn't even matter. What matters is that the USA won. The only people that have been "outscored" are the opposing teams. These games aren't about just Hinrich and Paul and I don't know why some here try to make it out to be so. This is not the Hornets vs. Bulls.


----------



## Hustle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



girllovesthegame said:


> :laugh: Doesn't even matter. What matters is that the USA won. The only people that have been "outscored" are the opposing teams. These games aren't about just Hinrich and Paul and I don't know why some here try to make it out to be so. This is not the Hornets vs. Bulls.


Well it does matter, if it means figuring out what team will best help this team win, it's not going to be a cake walk through out. Kirk is the only Bull on the team so of course on a BULLS forum he is going to be discussed, and as a fan I am going to keep a little more of an eye on him.


----------



## Cyanobacteria

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay
team usa dunkfest from when they practiced in korea.
kirk with a reverse dunk ([I said:


> whoaa![/I]) and dwight howard with a filthy slam at the end. just sick.



Wow, dunking looks pretty easy. Man, that makes me feel old.

Howard has backboard-change-making elevation. If he picks up the international rules, he should be smacking a lot of opposing shots off the rim. It's hard to change years of timing though.


----------



## K-Dub

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LzSjn9lBbJ4"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LzSjn9lBbJ4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
> 
> 
> 
> team usa dunkfest from when they practiced in korea.
> 
> kirk with a reverse dunk (_whoaa!_) and dwight howard with a filthy slam at the end. just sick.


If Kirk ever pulls anything similar to that at the United Center... damn the absence of a drool smiley.. :curse:


----------



## mr.ankle20

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



step said:


> The day Orlando willingly trades Dwight is the day that hell freezes over.



They will trade him if he want's out, Look at t-mac


----------



## Hustle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Cyanobacteria said:


> Wow, dunking looks pretty easy. Man, that makes me feel old.


It makes me feel short  :biggrin:


----------



## PC Load Letter

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

That Kirk dunk kinda looks like if I tried to dunk on an 8 1/2 foot rim. Except for the whole "actually making it" part. 

At least he can likely jump higher than Chris Paul. :whoknows:


----------



## kulaz3000

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

*U.S. team may have found right combination in worlds * 



> "If we're going to win this, we're going to have to take advantage of our bench play," said Hinrich, who played 16 minutes. "When we play like that, in groups, we've played our best games. Something about it is working.





> "Guys don't have to worry about pacing themselves," Hinrich said. "Just give it all you've got for the time you're in there, then go sit down and let somebody else pick up the energy level and do their thing."


the rest of the article..

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...9hF.8vLYF?slug=ap-worlds-us&prov=ap&type=lgns


----------



## r1terrell23

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



PC Load Letter said:


> That Kirk dunk kinda looks like if I tried to dunk on an 8 1/2 foot rim. Except for the whole "actually making it" part.
> 
> At least he can likely jump higher than Chris Paul. :whoknows:


Actually Chris Paul can throw it down pretty nicely.


----------



## step

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



> They will trade him if he want's out, Look at t-mac


Willingly, not forced.


----------



## Dancon7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Slovenia was doing a number on the first unit, so Coach K pulled a Skiles special and subbed everyone out. Let's hope the Kirk unit can do better than the Paul unit.

EDIT: They did do better, to the tune of an 11-0 run. Kirk fooked up the point guard something fierce.


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Oh, now its even bigger. And in general whatever unit Hinrich has been part of has been better than the first unit in every game I've been awake or home to see. And I am NOT just saying that because this is a Bulls forum. Hinrich's pretty underappreciated by outsiders and to me it looks like his participation on the USA Senior Men's Team could go a ways towards changing that.

55-39 USA with 3 minutes and change left in the first half.


----------



## ChiBron

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

1st unit played better than the 2nd in the 2nd qtr, vice versa in the 1st. Chris Paul and Wade were the heroes of the 1sthalf.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

USA/Slovenia Box Score

(click slovenia for their stats - for some reason they don't list the teams together and they don't have steals)

Kirk leading *rebounder* for the USA today with 7 boards!

i like the two-teams of starters approach by coach K, however USA let up in the fourth quarter today and got a little sloppy. can't let that happen tomorrow v. italy.




:usa:


----------



## narek

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

I loved the middle aged Slovians sitting in the stands proudly wearing their country's jerseys. 

It doesn't seem as if they're are many non-Japanese in the crowd though. Very, very quiet.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

_SAPPORO, Japan (AP) -- The United States had the two best teams on the floor Tuesday night.

Using two units to wear down and outrun Slovenia, the Americans rolled to a 114-95 victory, remaining unbeaten and *clinching a spot in the round of 16 at the world championships.*

Dwyane Wade scored 20 points for the U.S. (3-0), which meets fellow Group D unbeaten Italy on Wednesday night. LeBron James added 19 in his most impressive performance of the tournament.

James, Carmelo Anthony, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul and Shane Battier started the game, *but U.S. coach Mike Krzyzewski sent Wade, Elton Brand, Antawn Jamison, Kirk Hinrich and Joe Johnson out together midway through the first period.

The second unit put a stop to Slovenia's strong start, and both groups contributed to the big run that blew open the game in the second quarter.*_


AP Story


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

http://www.nba.com/usabasketball/wbc_blog_060818.html

_Kirk Hinrich then joined Battier to talk about the nightlife here. Shockingly, the two say they haven't really gone out here because, get this, it gets a little boring. They said they did go out a little in Seoul and Hong Kong, but not so much here in Japan. They especially weren't fond of the extra time off the non-game day gave them yesterday, telling us they'd rather be playing._

shockingly! :laugh:

unlike the time spent in vegas during training camp, where Kirk was spotted hanging out with Lil Jon at Rain.



> Kelly Rowland of Destiny's Child at Tryst (Wynn) *on Friday*, along with NBA bright lights Dwyane Wade, LeBron James and Carmelo Anthony. ... At N9ne Steakhouse: Rapper Lil Jon; Mike Bibby of the Sacramento Kings with his mother, Virginia; John Salley of "The Best Damn Sports Show Period"; and Southern Cal basketball coach Tim Floyd, with a group in the private dining room.* At Rain:* illusionist David Blaine, with supermodel Bridget Hall; *and Lil Jon, with Kirk Hinrich of the Chicago Bulls.*


:angel:


http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Jul-23-Sun-2006/news/8651676.html


----------



## Bullsky

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



narek said:


> I loved the middle aged Slovians sitting in the stands proudly wearing their country's jerseys.
> 
> It doesn't seem as if they're are many non-Japanese in the crowd though. Very, very quiet.


I agree. This whole tournament has been really quiet. Almost too quiet.

Could Brezec have *****ed more? Jeez. I think he had more *****fests than he did points.

Dwight Howard is a beast. How many times did he block their shots away? He's a solid asset for Team USA.


----------



## DaBullz

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*









Puerto Rico's Rick Apodaca (L) cuts in as US Kirk Hinrich blocks him during the opening game of the Group D preliminary round in the World Basketball Championship in Sapporo, 19 August 2006. US beat Puerto Rico by 111-100. AFP PHOTO / TOSHIFUMI KITAMURA (Photo credit should read TOSHIFUMI KITAMURA/AFP/Getty Images)


----------



## Cyanobacteria

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Ladies and gentlemen, your Puerto Rico 7-ups!


----------



## Bullsky

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Cyanobacteria said:


> Ladies and gentlemen, your Puerto Rico 7-ups!


When they are the home team, I guess you could call them the Puerto Rico Burger Kings!


----------



## deranged40

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Kirk is leading Team USA in FG% (63.6%) and 3PT% (71.4%), is second on the team in RPG (5.3), and third on the team in FT% (87.5%) through three games.


----------



## Bullsky

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

It'd be nice if someone could grab a rebound.


----------



## mr.ankle20

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

I'm starting to believe kirks defense is overrated


----------



## Bullsky

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

I think Shaq has a better FT% than our entire team does at this point.

Lets see if Coach K actually rips into the team. So far he's be really quiet.


----------



## Dancon7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Ok, so I know that since there are so many scoring options on team USA Labron James doesn't have to carry the scoring burden that he does in the NBA, but is this guy going to step it up at all?

Watching these games, it's like watching one of those '80's body switching movies with Fred Savage and Judge Reinhold or Dudley Moore and Kirk Cameron except here it's LaBron James and Carmelo Anthony.


----------



## Bullsky

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

CARMELOOOOOOO

Damn. :eek8:


----------



## ChiBron

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Gotta say I was very disappointed w/ Kirk's play tonight.


----------



## Hustle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Dancon7 said:


> Ok, so I know *that since there are so many scoring options on team USA Labron James doesn't have to carry the scoring burden that he does in the NBA, but is this guy going to step it up at all?*
> 
> Watching these games, it's like watching one of those '80's body switching movies with Fred Savage and Judge Reinhold or Dudley Moore and Kirk Cameron except here it's LaBron James and Carmelo Anthony.


I agree. He hasn't played horrible, but his role thus far has made him one of the least useful players on the team. He hasn't been the playmaker he's supposed to be, and I don't think he's worthy of PG minutes over Paul or Hinrich at this point. Wade, Brand, Howard, and especially Carmelo have all been more important to the team. Lebron has by far the most talent, but is only the 5-7th most important player on the team. Hopefully he gets fired up when he goes up against Nocioni.


----------



## narek

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

They did suffer a bit in the first half from a bit much of individualitis which hurts more team oriented players like Hinrich. If Joe Johnson chucked up another shot !!! Ball movement is important.

Battier's been pretty steady, hasn't he?


----------



## Bullsky

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



SPMJ said:


> Gotta say I was very disappointed w/ Kirk's play tonight.


Me too. The Italian guards drove past him on numerous occasions. Again, I don't mind of Kirk only puts up 4 points, but if he only puts up 4 points, he needs to help on the defensive end. Oh well, I'm sure he's not feeling good about his performance either. I think he'll be better in the medal round.


----------



## The Krakken

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



narek said:


> They did suffer a bit in the first half from a bit much of individualitis which hurts more team oriented players like Hinrich. If Joe Johnson chucked up another shot !!! Ball movement is important.
> 
> Battier's been pretty steady, hasn't he?


They go throught that every game. Especially Carmelo Anthony, who never saw a shot he didn't like, and Dwayne Wade, though to a far lesser extent. It's just masked better in other games because we were up by more than 20+ points.

I didn't think it was possible to ball-hog in international play but after the last few games, I'm just not so sure......


----------



## such sweet thunder

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Hustle said:


> I agree. He hasn't played horrible, but his role thus far has made him one of the least useful players on the team. He hasn't been the playmaker he's supposed to be, and I don't think he's worthy of PG minutes over Paul or Hinrich at this point. Wade, Brand, Howard, and especially Carmelo have all been more important to the team. Lebron has by far the most talent, but is only the 5-7th most important player on the team. Hopefully he gets fired up when he goes up against Nocioni.


I love the fact that Wade and Lebron have been mediocre.

Carmelo Anthony's run at syracuse was better than good; it was exceptional. Anythony was one of the better college players I've seen -- perhaps since Tim Duncan? He could play the point all the way up to power forward and he had a level of court awareness that was special. Under Anthony's wing, Syracuse was dominant throughout the tournament with a team that didn't have another legit NBA prospect. 

If I had to compare the Carmelo I saw in college to a player from a different era, it would be Larry Bird. The shot, handles, board work, passing ability, scoring creativity, and dead-eye closing ability. Both players are also relatively the same shape and are mediocre at defense. But for whatever reason, Carmelo's game hasn't translated as well in the pros as the slashers like Lebron and Wade.

I think it's the NBA's fault. I would much rather watch Carmelo weaving in the open court, hitting deadly mid-range jumpers and attacking through his passing than Wade and James throw themselves into pack trying to draw a foul. International ball is a better game and the spacing allows Carmelo to be a better player. It's more fun to watch. At the end of the day, I want Anthony to be the best player in my league.

The success of Anthony in olympic ball but lackluster play in the NBA makes me question whether Bird would have been a hall-of-famer if he played in our era. I think thats a shame. In many respects, Wade and Lebron play are being rewarded in the NBA for playing a game that is foreign to basketball's tradition.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*












:biggrin:


----------



## djsmokyc

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



such sweet thunder said:


> I love the fact that Wade and Lebron have been mediocre.
> 
> Carmelo Anthony's run at syracuse was better than good; it was exceptional. Anythony was one of the better college players I've seen -- perhaps since Tim Duncan? He could play the point all the way up to power forward and he had a level of court awareness that was special. *Under Anthony's wing, Syracuse was dominant throughout the tournament with a team that didn't have another legit NBA prospect. *


Wasn't Hakim Warrick a freshman or sophomore on that team?


----------



## Cyanobacteria

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

I would comment on Carmelo's passing in this tournament if I could remember him passing the ball any. :biggrin: 

OK, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, I haven't watched the Italy game yet. How may times did he pass the ball while lighting it up for 35?


----------



## Ron Cey

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



> Carmelo Anthony's run at syracuse was better than good; it was exceptional. Anythony was one of the better college players I've seen -- perhaps since Tim Duncan? He could play the point all the way up to power forward and he had a level of court awareness that was special. Under Anthony's wing, Syracuse was dominant throughout the tournament with a team that didn't have another legit NBA prospect.


I definitely think he is the best Freshman I've ever seen. And no doubt that run was exceptional. He was outstanding. 

But that team did have a young Hakim Warrick and the extremely effective Gerry MacNamera (sp?). It was a good team. But certainly 'Melo was off the charts. 

But I gotta say, if LeBron went to college it wouldn't have even been fair. 



> If I had to compare the Carmelo I saw in college to a player from a different era, it would be Larry Bird. The shot, handles, board work, passing ability, scoring creativity, and dead-eye closing ability. Both players are also relatively the same shape and are mediocre at defense.


Can't agree there. Bird took Indiana State - Indiana State - to the Finals. Its a decent comparison, but I give Bird the nod by a good margin when it comes to college ball. 



> But for whatever reason, Carmelo's game hasn't translated as well in the pros as the slashers like Lebron and Wade.


'Melo's game has translated fine. His stats are excellent. He's just not as good as those other guys. He never will be. 



> I think it's the NBA's fault. I would much rather watch Carmelo weaving in the open court, hitting deadly mid-range jumpers and attacking through his passing than Wade and James throw themselves into pack trying to draw a foul.


Come on. 'Melo does that same stuff. That crap carried Denver to a win over Chicago this last season. He shot 10/24 from the floor, but then just started hurtling himself into our defense and got call after call. The result? He shot 19/21 from the free throw line.

http://www.nba.com/games/20060116/DENCHI/boxscore.html

He's no different from Wade/LeBron. Melo was 7th in the league in free throws attempted, while Wade was 5th and LeBron 3rd. They are in that together. 

Plus, LeBron and Wade slash as good or better than anyone in the league. At times they will throw themselves into guy - just like Melo - but they also just get grabbed a lot by helpless defenders. 

I


> nternational ball is a better game and the spacing allows Carmelo to be a better player. It's more fun to watch. *At the end of the day, I want Anthony to be the best player in my league.*


Under no circumstances do I want an apathetic defender to be the best player in my league. Not to mention the numerous questionable things 'Melo has done attitude wise both with the Olympic team and in Denver. 

'Melo is showing me something in the Worlds this summer, and thats nice. But he's got a long way to go before he regains my respect. 



> The success of Anthony in olympic ball but lackluster play in the NBA makes me question whether Bird would have been a hall-of-famer if he played in our era. I think thats a shame. In many respects, Wade and Lebron play are being rewarded in the NBA for playing a game that is foreign to basketball's tradition.


The current NBA is closer to basketball's tradition than it was in the "iso and hack and grab" days. Sure, the NBA is overly sensitive with the foul calls right now. But at least each game isn't a grapple fest on defense with isolation plays substituting for team offense and ball movement.


----------



## such sweet thunder

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



djsmokyc said:


> Wasn't Hakim Warrick a freshman or sophomore on that team?


 Warrick was a Freshman if memory serves. I don't consider him or Mcnamara a legitimate nba prospects. Most NCAA champion teams have multiple highly ranked draft prospects. I consider both of those players marginal selections.


----------



## such sweet thunder

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Ron Cey said:


> I definitely think he is the best Freshman I've ever seen. And no doubt that run was exceptional. He was outstanding.
> 
> But that team did have a young Hakim Warrick and the extremely effective Gerry MacNamera (sp?). It was a good team. But certainly 'Melo was off the charts.
> 
> But I gotta say, if LeBron went to college it wouldn't have even been fair.


MacNamera was a fine college player. We don't know how to spell his name. I guess that was my point. Most college champions have a couple of guys whos names we know how to spell. 

I'm not sure about Lebron in college. He would have been one of the best players in his game, no doubt. But I don't think he would have been as good as Carmelo, or as dominant comparatively as he has been in the NBA. 



> Can't agree there. Bird took Indiana State - Indiana State - to the Finals. Its a decent comparison, but I give Bird the nod by a good margin when it comes to college ball.


Agreed. I think a 'decent comparison' and the name Larry Bird is high praise.



> 'Melo's game has translated fine. His stats are excellent. He's just not as good as those other guys. He never will be.


He would be if the NBA adopted the shape of the international lane and brought the three point line in. 



> Come on. 'Melo does that same stuff. That crap carried Denver to a win over Chicago this last season. He shot 10/24 from the floor, but then just started hurtling himself into our defense and got call after call. The result? He shot 19/21 from the free throw line.
> 
> http://www.nba.com/games/20060116/DENCHI/boxscore.html
> 
> He's no different from Wade/LeBron. Melo was 7th in the league in free throws attempted, while Wade was 5th and LeBron 3rd. They are in that together.
> 
> Plus, LeBron and Wade slash as good or better than anyone in the league. At times they will throw themselves into guy - just like Melo - but they also just get grabbed a lot by helpless defenders.
> [/url]


I just want to see LeBron and Wade forced to develop other parts of their game. I don't how many times I've seen the two recklessly explode towards the hoop in these games and not draw the fall call because there is more space and the interior is less packed. I would like the NBA to incorporate that. 



> Under no circumstances do I want an apathetic defender to be the best player in my league. Not to mention the numerous questionable things 'Melo has done attitude wise both with the Olympic team and in Denver.
> 
> 'Melo is showing me something in the Worlds this summer, and thats nice. But he's got a long way to go before he regains my respect.
> 
> The current NBA is closer to basketball's tradition than it was in the "iso and hack and grab" days. Sure, the NBA is overly sensitive with the foul calls right now. But at least each game isn't a grapple fest on defensive with isolation plays substituting for team offense and ball movement.


My point is that Mello really isn't showing us anything new. We saw this level of skill from him in college and it hasn't 'gone' anywhere. The game changed, not the player. 

I don't dispute your second point. The zone defenses have shifted the NBA game towards a more international style. Stern and the owners have the power to continue these changes by implementing the international three and the trapzoid lanes. I hope they do.


----------



## Ron Cey

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



> MacNamera was a fine college player. We don't know how to spell his name. I guess that was my point. Most college champions have a couple of guys whos names we know how to spell.


Definitely not a legit NBA prospect. No doubt. I'm just saying that 'Melo had a good team. It wasn't just him. But you and I are on the same page about the year/tourney he had. Legendary. 



> I'm not sure about Lebron in college. He would have been one of the best players in his game, no doubt. But I don't think he would have been as good as Carmelo, or as dominant comparatively as he has been in the NBA.


In college, LeBron would have been bigger, stronger, faster, and jumped higher than every player, on every team, almost every night. You have to remember, while players like 'Melo, Kobe, Garnett, even Wade have come into their bodies in the pros, LeBron was an absolute physical monster when he came out of High School. Plus he had that uncanny skill level. 

I think he would have been the greatest single season college player in history by such a wide margin that it wouldn't even be a contest. He would have made a mockery of the college game. 

He damn near was making fools of the NBA as a rookie when he went for 21/6/6. Imagine what he would have done against a bunch of 18 year olds that year? I shudder to think. 



> Agreed. I think a 'decent comparison' and the name Larry Bird is high praise.


It is. 



> He would be if the NBA adopted the shape of the international lane and brought the three point line in.


I doubt it. But who knows? And it still isn't taking defense into account, which is his weakness. 



> I just want to see LeBron and Wade forced to develop other parts of their game. I don't how many times I've seen the two recklessly explode towards the hoop in these games and not draw the fall call because there is more space and the interior is less packed. I would like the NBA to incorporate that.


I think LeBron in particular has developed other parts of his game. He's definitely a better shooter than he once was. Wade will never be a great shooter. 

But I agree about the trapezoid lane/foul call correlation. I've always been a fan - especially as pro players continue to get physically bigger on average. 



> My point is that Mello really isn't showing us anything new. We saw this level of skill from him in college and it hasn't 'gone' anywhere. The game changed, not the player.


The game is different, but I think the player has changed. I think his focus, attitude, and sense of urgency have all improved and that this is what has made a difference in his play. When he returns to the NBA, I'm predicting he reverts back to the way he was. I hope I'm wrong. 



> I don't dispute your second point. The zone defenses have shifted the NBA game towards a more international style. Stern and the owners have the power to continue these changes by implementing the international three and the trapzoid lanes. I hope they do.


If any change is to be made to the 3, I want it lengthened, not shortened. That is how you encourage a mid-range game: by making the deep ball a greater risk. Make it less of a risk and you will obliterate what is left of the mid-range game.

But the trapezoid is something I'd like to see the league consider.


----------



## such sweet thunder

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Ron Cey said:


> In college, LeBron would have been bigger, stronger, faster, and jumped higher than every player, on every team, almost every night. You have to remember, while players like 'Melo, Kobe, Garnett, even Wade have come into their bodies in the pros, LeBron was an absolute physical monster when he came out of High School. Plus he had that uncanny skill level.
> 
> I think he would have been the greatest single season college player in history by such a wide margin that it wouldn't even be a contest. He would have made a mockery of the college game.
> 
> He damn near was making fools of the NBA as a rookie when he went for 21/6/6. Imagine what he would have done against a bunch of 18 year olds that year? I shudder to think.


Then why does Lebron struggle so much with the international game? He's still one of the best players in the world. But not near as good as he is in the NBA. Lebron is primarily a slasher. The NBA rewards slashers. College and the international game, less so. 



> The game is different, but I think the player has changed. I think his focus, attitude, and sense of urgency have all improved and that this is what has made a difference in his play. When he returns to the NBA, I'm predicting he reverts back to the way he was. I hope I'm wrong.


It's not just that Carmelo is more effective. It's that Lebron and Wade are less effective. I think the differences in the game and rules are more substantial than you give credit. 



> If any change is to be made to the 3, I want it lengthened, not shortened. That is how you encourage a mid-range game: by making the deep ball a greater risk. Make it less of a risk and you will obliterate what is left of the mid-range game.
> 
> But the trapezoid is something I'd like to see the league consider.


I wouldn't mind if the three point line was lengthened, either. I just think it's at a bad middlearea now. Move the line out and you open things up by forcing players to work on a more effective mid-range game. Move the line in and you open things up by rewarding players for taking, what is essentially, a mid-range shot. But at its current length, it entices offensive players to cherry-pick around the three point line the entire game -- because they think they have enough range --, and the defense to lay off them and crowd the middle -- because they know the offense doesn't.

The line is at a bad middle-area now.


----------



## Ron Cey

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



> Then why does Lebron struggle so much with the international game? He's still one of the best players in the world. But not near as good as he is in the NBA. Lebron is primarily a slasher. The NBA rewards slashers. College and the international game, less so.


The international game is still men. College is still boys. LeBron's physical attributes and skill level would have made him an unguardable juggernaut in the NCAA. 



> It's not just that Carmelo is more effective. It's that Lebron and Wade are less effective. I think the differences in the game and rules are more substantial than you give credit.


Is Wade less effective? He's averaging .2 ppg less than 'Melo. But he's shooting more free throws and a higher field goal percentage. Its pretty close with them, really. 

LeBron appears to be playing more the role of a facilitator than he normally does as he is second on the team in assists. 

I'm not arguing that the rules or the game is not different. I'm arguing that Wade and LeBron are still the better players. If you started over from scratch with a new league, with international rules, and put them all on different teams playing 35 minutes per game, I suspect Wade and LeBron would replicate their NBA dominance. 

I'm also arguing that 'Melo's play is more a result of the changes he has made internally than anything else. 



> I wouldn't mind if the three point line was lengthened, either. I just think it's at a bad middlearea now. Move the line out and you open things up by forcing players to work on a more effective mid-range game. Move the line in and you open things up by rewarding players for taking, what is essentially, a mid-range shot. But at its current length, it entices offensive players to cherry-pick around the three point line the entire game -- because they think they have enough range --, and the defense to lay off them and crowd the middle -- because they know the offense doesn't.
> 
> The line is at a bad middle-area now.


I'm a little confused by this argument. The closer you make the line, the more players will cherry pick because the shot will be an easier one for them to make. Move it in closer and you further congest the offensive area. I just don't follow the argument that moving the 3 towards the basket frees up the middle. The only benefit I see is that it rewards guys who can hit a 20 foot jumper, but not a 23 foot jumper.


----------



## WestHighHawk

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> :biggrin:


I thought I saw a #12 Bulls jersey in the stands, but it was so early in the morning, I figured my eyes were playing tricks on me  

As for today's game, it looked like half the team was as tired as I was. A win but.....

thank goodness for Melo!


----------



## transplant

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Haven't watched any of the games, so I only have box scores.

I was mildly surprised (and pleased) to see Hinrich make the final squad. Stat-wise, he's putting up SG-type numbers (a lot more points than assists). Is he playing mostly SG? Considering his minutes, he's been VERY productive. Best free throw shooter (with a decent number of attempts), best 3-pt shooter and tied for 2nd in rpg (WHAT?). He seems to be more than holding his own...he belongs.

I plan to make a point to watch a couple games when the prelims are over. Gotta find out how Lebron is managing to to be ordinary. Not surprised that Carmello and Wade are scoring big...it's what they do.

Is there a team other than Argentina that the US has to fear?


----------



## gamadict

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

He shot fewer FTs last year, but Carmelo is better then James and Wade at throwing his body into the lane and getting calls. It's one of teh best part of his game.

I'd love to see the line moved out both in D1 and FIBA.


----------



## ChiBron

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



transplant said:


> Gotta find out how Lebron is managing to to be ordinary.


He hasn't been spectacular(he isn't trying to be) but LeBron's hardly been _ordinary_ either. I believe of all the the games we've played so far(5 exhibition+4 tournament) he's got the best PER on team USA. He's doing a little bit of everything and even working hard on D. The _ordinary_ talk has probably stemmed from the couple of low scoring games he's had in the tournament but for the most part he's been up there or better than Melo/Wade. He usually leads the team in minutes. That's a good enough testament to his play.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

*espn2 is replaying the game tonight at 10pm ET*

Kirk's game today was limited by foul trouble, and yet he's become a "trusted sub" for coach K. (sheridan said this, i almost fainted)

transplant, he _has mostly_ been playing off the ball, not even bringing the ball upcourt in most cases. he's not looking for his shot so much, and in the slovenia game even passed up a few open ones. i wouldn't pile on the defensive effort here either, at least he's trying to contest shots. paul and wade, not so much. 

interesting to see both Bosh and Miller get DNP's today, i suspect they'll play more v. a taller senegal squad.

lebron hasn't been mediocre so much as he has struggled more than wade and carmelo to adjusting to the international game, and more importantly, to the role of NOT being the man. it's hard for him i think, not to be the man.


----------



## Ron Cey

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> it's hard for him i think, not to be the man.


Tell me about it. There was this one time in college (I was really drunk) when I wasn't the man, and . . . . well, its difficult to talk about.


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

I guess I missed a competitive game this morning. I tried to stay awake but droopy eyelids and exhaustion won out.  Judging by the box looks like Melo went off and Hinrich had some foul trouble.

I've apparently not spread enough rep around to give any more to mizenkay but want to thank miz for starting this thread ... its been the most interesting discussion of the WCOB anywhere on this site.


----------



## such sweet thunder

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Ron Cey said:


> Is Wade less effective? He's averaging .2 ppg less than 'Melo. But he's shooting more free throws and a higher field goal percentage. Its pretty close with them, really.
> 
> LeBron appears to be playing more the role of a facilitator than he normally does as he is second on the team in assists.
> 
> I'm not arguing that the rules or the game is not different. I'm arguing that Wade and LeBron are still the better players. If you started over from scratch with a new league, with international rules, and put them all on different teams playing 35 minutes per game, I suspect Wade and LeBron would replicate their NBA dominance.


Apparently we just disagree. (which is of course fine, I'm wrong an awful lot). Ignorning stats -- because I think you still have too small of a subset of games -- in my estimation, Carmelo has been better than both Wade and Lebron. Don't forget Carmelo was crippled for the second half of that Brazil game in which he was the team leader in points at the break. In the NBA, I would say that both Wade and Lebron are a step better than Carmelo. For what it's worth, Coach K and the media-sheep seem to agree, annointing Melo the surprise of the team.


----------



## narek

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> *espn2 is replaying the game tonight at 10pm ET*
> 
> Kirk's game today was limited by foul trouble, and yet he's become a "trusted sub" for coach K. (sheridan said this, i almost fainted)
> 
> transplant, he _has mostly_ been playing off the ball, not even bringing the ball upcourt in most cases. he's not looking for his shot so much, and in the slovenia game even passed up a few open ones. i wouldn't pile on the defensive effort here either, at least he's trying to contest shots. paul and wade, not so much.
> 
> interesting to see both Bosh and Miller get DNP's today, i suspect they'll play more v. a taller senegal squad.
> 
> lebron hasn't been mediocre so much as he has struggled more than wade and carmelo to adjusting to the international game, and more importantly, to the role of NOT being the man. it's hard for him i think, not to be the man.



Yay! I slept through the first quarter. Woke up soon enough to see Kirk's three. 

Bosh hasn't been too spectacular either - Howard's the man. 

Someone (and I can't remember who) noticed Kirk was playing the Bull's help defense - herding the guards to other players but that the other players didn't pick 'em up. You can still tell they haven't completely jelled as a team, and a few people need to pass the ball more to open players!! And make freethrows.


----------



## ViciousFlogging

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

fun fact: Italy's Mason Rocca is a product of Evanston Township High School and Princeton. Didn't see this mentioned earlier in the thread.


----------



## LegoHat

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



narek said:


> Yay! I slept through the first quarter. Woke up soon enough to see Kirk's three.
> 
> Bosh hasn't been too spectacular either - Howard's the man.
> 
> Someone (and I can't remember who) noticed Kirk was playing the Bull's help defense - herding the guards to other players but that the other players didn't pick 'em up. You can still tell they haven't completely jelled as a team, and a few people need to pass the ball more to open players!! And make freethrows.


Howard is going to be really good next season, and you could argue that he is the most important player on this USA team, top 3 in any case.


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

I'm trying to stay awake but there's a different starting 4 (out of 5) against Senegal.

James, Hinrich, Miller, Jamison, and Johnson.

They announced that Wade might not play at all ... and generally rest some members of the other unit.

Senegal up 6-2 early, though ... because they've been eliminated and the USA is already advancing to face Australia (and Andrew Bogut) Sunday, maybe shouldn't treat this as a meaningless game?

[EDIT -- So much for resting ... Anthony and DHoward are in, 13-17 USA, 3 minutes and change left in the first ... USA looks like its tightening up more defensively than earlier].

[NEW EDIT -- Okay the rout seems to be on, 15-31, about 7:50 or so left in the 2d ... Hinrich and Paul on the floor together for now ... Hinrich had a bucket that was originally ruled a 2 but changed into a 3. Okay going away to watch the game ... ]


----------



## narek

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

An easy win: 103-58



> SAPPORO, Japan, Aug. 24 -- With the top spot in Group D already secured, and one of its tri-captains, Dwyane Wade, taking a much-deserved rest, it would have been understandable if Team USA came out flat Thursday.
> Unfortunately for its opponent, Senegal, USA Basketball played at the same consistently-high level it has performed with throughout the 2006 FIBA World Championship.
> 
> LeBron James scored 15 of his 17 points in the first half when the USA built a 58-24 halftime lead en route to a 103-58 victory in the final preliminary round game.


http://www.nba.com/features/060824_usasen_recap.html


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

It sounds like I'm one game late at this point, but was anyone else really impressed with Marco Belinelli? That kid can PLAY! I had heard that he was an excellent shooter, but it looks like he can put the ball on the floor, and he can really get up off the floor for a finish too. He looks like a blue chipper to me.

It looks like he won't be able to play in the NBA until 2008 due to a lack of a buyout clause. 

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=198#

However, at that point, he'll only be 22 years old. 

We're going to be seeing a lot more of this kid in years to come.


----------



## ScottMay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Here's a great piece by Selena Roberts about how this team is worth rooting for, especially in light of the last Olympic/Worlds team and Bode Miller and the Tour de France and Barry Bonds and so on. She takes a nice little shot at Larry Brown, too.

http://select.nytimes.com/2006/08/24/sports/basketball/24roberts.html

(Unfortunately, it's a "TimesSelect" article -- I'm not sure you can view these even if you've registered for the Times site.)


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

next up:

_*USA v. AUSTRALIA*_

Sunday August 27th

*4am Eastern Time.*

that's right. 

4am.

*TV still TBA.*

schedule info per NBA TV.

Eight-Finals Schedule _(ALL times Eastern)_

_Friday 8/25_

9 pm ET Argentina v. New Zealand 

_Saturday 8/26_

1 am ET - Turkey v. Slovenia
4 am ET - Spain v. Serbia & Montenegro
7 am ET - Italy v. Lithuania
9 pm ET - Greece v. China

_Sunday 8/27_

1 am ET - France v. Angola
*4 am ET - USA v. Australia*
7 am ET - Germany v. Nigeria


----------



## synergy825

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Darius Miles Davis said:


> It sounds like I'm one game late at this point, but was anyone else really impressed with Marco Belinelli? That kid can PLAY! I had heard that he was an excellent shooter, but it looks like he can put the ball on the floor, and he can really get up off the floor for a finish too. He looks like a blue chipper to me.
> 
> It looks like he won't be able to play in the NBA until 2008 due to a lack of a buyout clause.
> 
> http://www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=198#
> 
> However, at that point, he'll only be 22 years old.
> 
> We're going to be seeing a lot more of this kid in years to come.


Belinelli will be the next big Italian prospect in the NBA. He's really a great shooter and he isn't that slow. He'll probably be as good as Ginobili but with a better outside shot. Manicelli is also ok, but I doubt he gets into the NBA.


----------



## Diable

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

fibaamerica.com lists the USA-Australia game at 1300 local time which would be midnight Saturday night on the East Coast.Whether that is correct or not I am not sure.

<TABLE style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 width="100%" border=1 celpadding="0"><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#eeeeee colSpan=4>*8/26/2006*</TD></TR><TR style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold"><TD vAlign=top>Time</TD><TD vAlign=top>Home</TD><TD vAlign=top>Visitor</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle>Points</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>10:00</TD><TD vAlign=top>







Argentina</TD><TD vAlign=top>







New Zealand</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle>http://www.fibaamerica.com/fnabox.asp?g=61&n=61&r=4743</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>13:00</TD><TD vAlign=top>







Italy</TD><TD vAlign=top>







Lithuania</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle>http://www.fibaamerica.com/fnabox.asp?g=62&n=62&r=4743</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>17:00</TD><TD vAlign=top>







Turkey</TD><TD vAlign=top>







Slovenia</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle>http://www.fibaamerica.com/fnabox.asp?g=63&n=63&r=4743</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>20:00</TD><TD vAlign=top>







Spain</TD><TD vAlign=top>







Serbia & Montenegro</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle>http://www.fibaamerica.com/fnabox.asp?g=64&n=64&r=4743</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=4><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#eeeeee colSpan=4>*8/27/2006*</TD></TR><TR style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold"><TD vAlign=top>Time</TD><TD vAlign=top>Home</TD><TD vAlign=top>Visitor</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle>Points</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>10:00</TD><TD vAlign=top>







Federal Republic of Germany</TD><TD vAlign=top>







Nigeria</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle>http://www.fibaamerica.com/fnabox.asp?g=65&n=65&r=4743</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>13:00</TD><TD vAlign=top>







United States of America</TD><TD vAlign=top>







Australia</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle>http://www.fibaamerica.com/fnabox.asp?g=66&n=66&r=4743</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>17:00</TD><TD vAlign=top>







France</TD><TD vAlign=top>







Angola</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle>http://www.fibaamerica.com/fnabox.asp?g=67&n=67&r=4743</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>20:00</TD><TD vAlign=top>







Greece</TD><TD vAlign=top>







People's Republic of China</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


----------



## WestHighHawk

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



> 4am Eastern Time.


OMG, that's 3:00 am CT :dead: ...might as well stay up all night 

the things I do for the love of basketball

:angel:


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

well *1300 hours in japan* is 3pm local time (sunday) which would make the airdate of 4 am ET sunday correct. Japan is 13+ hours ahead of the east coast. 

ugh. 

those times listed on NBA TV may have been incorrect though.


----------



## Diable

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Actually I have been watching the games on CCTV5 via the internet.The games listed at 1300 come at midnight.Last night for example China vs Slovenija was listed at 1330(1:30PM in Japan) and I watched it on the internet at 12:30 AM in North Carolina.Fiba.com has the same schedeule as fibaamerica.com...it just takes them a day longer to update the site because they seem to be incompetent *LINK*That doesn't mean that they or I am correct,but I certainly would prefer it if the game came on at midnight.I will note that here.USAbasketball.com says that the order of games has yet to be determined...so that confuses things.

<TABLE class=results width="100%"><THEAD><TR class=aggregator><TD class=caption colSpan=3>*EIGHT-FINALS*</TD><TD class=caption></TD><TD class=caption></TD><TD class=caption></TD></TR></THEAD><TBODY><TR class=spacer><TD colSpan=6>







</TD></TR><TR class=aggregator><TD class=header style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" colSpan=5>







26 August 2006</TD><TD class=terminator>







</TD></TR><TR class=spacer><TD colSpan=6>







</TD></TR><TR class=even onmouseover="this.className='highlight';" onmouseout="this.className='even';"><TD class=first style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" width=35>61/61</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=155>Argentina

New Zealand

</TD><TD class=textBlackPadLeftRight style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" vAlign=center width=35>10:00 </TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=90>Boxscore

Game report 
</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" width=40>







</TD><TD class=last style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=130>Saitama

(Japan)
</TD></TR><TR class=odd onmouseover="this.className='highlight';" onmouseout="this.className='odd';"><TD class=first style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" width=35>62/62</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=155>Italy

Lithuania

</TD><TD class=textBlackPadLeftRight style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" vAlign=center width=35>13:00 </TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=90>Boxscore

Game report 
</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" width=40>







</TD><TD class=last style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=130>Saitama

(Japan)
</TD></TR><TR class=even onmouseover="this.className='highlight';" onmouseout="this.className='even';"><TD class=first style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" width=35>63/63</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=155>Turkey

Slovenia

</TD><TD class=textBlackPadLeftRight style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" vAlign=center width=35>17:00 </TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=90>Boxscore

Game report 
</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" width=40>







</TD><TD class=last style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=130>Saitama

(Japan)
</TD></TR><TR class=odd onmouseover="this.className='highlight';" onmouseout="this.className='odd';"><TD class=first style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" width=35>64/64</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=155>Spain

Serbia & Montenegro

</TD><TD class=textBlackPadLeftRight style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" vAlign=center width=35>20:00 </TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=90>Boxscore

Game report 
</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" width=40>







</TD><TD class=last style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=130>Saitama

(Japan)
</TD></TR><TR class=spacer><TD colSpan=6>







</TD></TR><TR class=aggregator><TD class=header style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" colSpan=5>







27 August 2006</TD><TD class=terminator>







</TD></TR><TR class=spacer><TD colSpan=6>







</TD></TR><TR class=even onmouseover="this.className='highlight';" onmouseout="this.className='even';"><TD class=first style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" width=35>65/65</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=155>Germany

Nigeria

</TD><TD class=textBlackPadLeftRight style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" vAlign=center width=35>10:00 </TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=90>Boxscore

Game report 
</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" width=40>







</TD><TD class=last style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=130>Saitama

(Japan)
</TD></TR><TR class=odd onmouseover="this.className='highlight';" onmouseout="this.className='odd';"><TD class=first style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" width=35>66/66</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=155>USA

Australia

</TD><TD class=textBlackPadLeftRight style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" vAlign=center width=35>13:00 </TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=90>Boxscore

Game report 
</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" width=40>







</TD><TD class=last style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=130>Saitama

(Japan)
</TD></TR><TR class=even onmouseover="this.className='highlight';" onmouseout="this.className='even';"><TD class=first style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" width=35>67/67</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=155>France

Angola

</TD><TD class=textBlackPadLeftRight style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" vAlign=center width=35>17:00 </TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=90>Boxscore

Game report 
</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" width=40>







</TD><TD class=last style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=130>Saitama

(Japan)
</TD></TR><TR class=odd onmouseover="this.className='highlight';" onmouseout="this.className='odd';"><TD class=first style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" width=35>68/68</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=155>Greece

China

</TD><TD class=textBlackPadLeftRight style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" vAlign=center width=35>20:00 </TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=90>Boxscore

Game report 
</TD><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" width=40>







</TD><TD class=last style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" width=130>Saitama

(Japan)
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


----------



## girllovesthegame

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

_USA Basketball will play Australia, the fourth-place team in Group C, in the elimination round on Sunday (12 a.m. ET, ESPN2). _ 

However I don't know how correct this is but it's a much more reasonable time.

http://www.nba.com/features/060824_usasen_recap.html


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> well *1300 hours in japan* is 3pm local time (sunday) which would make the airdate of 4 am ET sunday correct. Japan is 13+ hours ahead of the east coast.
> 
> ugh.
> 
> those times listed on NBA TV may have been incorrect though.



just ignore me. :laugh:

i'm obviously unable to tell time today.

if the game is at 1pm local time, then indeed it is airing at a much more reasonable hour in the US of midnight (so USA bball is the correct info, and NBA TV is not).

a much more civilized hour, thank you schedulers. 

thanks diable for the info in the thread too.


----------



## Bullsky

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

http://www.nba.com/wbc06/schedule.html



> 8/26/06 Saturday 12:00 AM Eighth Final ESPN2
> 8/26/06 Saturday 7:00 AM Eighth Final ESPN2
> 8/27/06 Sunday 4:00 AM Eighth Final ESPN2
> 8/27/06 Sunday 9:00 PM Eighth Final ESPN2


Im guessing "Eighth Final means Sweet Sixteen round? If not, then what does this mean?


----------



## LegoHat

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Bullsky said:


> http://www.nba.com/wbc06/schedule.html
> 
> 
> 
> Im guessing "Eighth Final means Sweet Sixteen round? If not, then what does this mean?


It is the Euro/Asian equivalent of Sweet Sixteen, it's usually called "round of 16" or "1/8 finals".


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



ScottMay said:


> Here's a great piece by Selena Roberts about how this team is worth rooting for, especially in light of the last Olympic/Worlds team and Bode Miller and the Tour de France and Barry Bonds and so on. She takes a nice little shot at Larry Brown, too.
> 
> http://select.nytimes.com/2006/08/24/sports/basketball/24roberts.html
> 
> (Unfortunately, it's a "TimesSelect" article -- I'm not sure you can view these even if you've registered for the Times site.)


Sounds like a great article ... my mere NYT registration does not allow me to view it. BOOOOOO!!!

[EDIT: I am booing the NYT site, NOT ScottMay.]


----------



## Bullsky

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



LegoHat said:


> It is the Euro/Asian equivalent of Sweet Sixteen, it's usually called "round of 16" or "1/8 finals".


So ESPN2 must be showing all of the Eighth Final games, correct?


----------



## LegoHat

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Bullsky said:


> So ESPN2 must be showing all of the Eighth Final games, correct?


ESPN2 are showing 4 of the 8 "Eight Final" games, but after that they will broadcast the rest of the games.

2006 FIBA World Championship TV Schedule


----------



## McBulls

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

At least one observer thinks the USA team is probably not a match for Argentina.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/chris_mannix/08/24/usa.sowhat/

I haven't watched the games lately, but in earlier games what he says about an incoherent offense held true IMO.


----------



## PC Load Letter

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



McBulls said:


> At least one observer thinks the USA team is probably not a match for Argentina.
> 
> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/chris_mannix/08/24/usa.sowhat/
> 
> I haven't watched the games lately, but in earlier games what he says about an incoherent offense held true IMO.


I pretty much wholeheartedly agree with everything in that article, _especially_ about the Brad Miller part. I kept wondering that myself the last couple games. Why not throw the ball to him, since he's a very good passing big man, then use our speed and athleticism to get open? It's obviously not going to work every possession and may seem extremely simple, but I don't see how it wouldn't be effective. Of course, another problem we have again is not having more than one or two guys who are very good outside shooters (Hinrich, Johnson, ?) and none that are lights-out guys like Ray Allen or Redd; a guy who would shoot like 75% from the shorther 3-point line.

Right now, I think the US will get their asses kicked by Argentina. Against Italy, at some point in the 3rd quarter, Fran Fraschilla made a comment like "That's the first set play they've run tonight." I think it was true, which doesn't bode well against actual good teams. They may even lose to Spain, too.


----------



## girllovesthegame

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



McBulls said:


> At least one observer thinks the USA team is probably not a match for Argentina.
> 
> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/chris_mannix/08/24/usa.sowhat/
> 
> I haven't watched the games lately, but in earlier games what he says about an incoherent offense held true IMO.


This made me chuckle before I even started reading the article.... 

_Warning: The following column contains pessimism and player-hating to the highest degree._

Everyone loves writing about their Team USA doubts.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

they need to start moving the ball again and pronto. too much one on one stuff going on in the last two preliminary games. i mean, thank god for melo against italy, but in the first two games of prelim play, they were sharing the ball a whole lot better.

i watched one of the early argentina games, to get a glimpse at nocioni, and there was this one sequence (and this is just ONE example of this) where everyone on argentina touched the ball, off the ball movement was exemplary, and it resulted in an easy shot from the outside. _it was a thing of beauty._ i rewound the dvr and watched it like 5 times. 

i haven't seen anything _remotely_ like this from team usa. argentina will crush them if they don't address this. i wonder if they can address this? i mean we now have players like bosh, rising to the baited question from chris sheridan about playing time, saying that he's not sure that he'd even play for the US if he knew he'd be "buried on the bench". (see sheridans' insider from yesterday). huh? what? where's that team spirit man?


oh, kirk looked tired the last two games. the foul trouble against italy aside, he wasn't at his best. and even in the waning minutes of the blowout against senegal, he seemed to have this weird body language like he was over it already. or maybe he thought he shouldn't have to play in garbage time. it was weird.


----------



## Hustle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> i haven't seen anything _remotely_ like this from team usa. argentina will crush them if they don't address this. i wonder if they can address this? i mean we now have players like bosh, rising to the baited question from chris sheridan about playing time, saying that he's not sure that he'd even play for the US if he knew he'd be "buried on the bench". (see sheridans' insider from yesterday). huh? what? where's that team spirit man?


We should've just left him in Canada. Did he not know that there was going to be 12 players on the team, and that at least half of them are better than he is.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

ugh.

USA v. Australia is being shown on ONE HOUR  tape delay. 

1 am ET on Sunday/ESPN2. 

that's _ridiculous._




oh, and here's what's being said about the negativity of Mannix . 


Sactown Blog  weighs in too.



i'm amused. bloggers criticising nba writers criticising team usa. it's become it's own category of sport! 

:laugh:


----------



## 7thwatch

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

this link from sactown had some excellent points:

http://coachthorpe.typepad.com/the_pro_training_center/2006/08/coach_ks_gambit.html


----------



## Hustle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> i'm amused. bloggers criticising nba writers criticising team usa. it's become it's own category of sport!
> 
> :laugh:


Well he did write 



> Should the U.S. get by Australia


that in and of itself is ridiculous, then he mentions Germany, neither team is going to slightly challenge America.



> The U.S. should take the next few days and learn an offense. Any offense.


I agree with this but then he writes


> Run the triangle if you have to.


Ummm does he know anything about the triangle? How about more pick and roll?


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

NBA TV has the USA v. Australia game listed as being shown LIVE on NBA TV at midnight (late saturday). 

why would ESPN2 tape delay it for an hour?

*EDIT: they're not. they're showing it live according to the latest update at USA Basketball*

espn.com's nba page is wrong.


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

How come the games not on? It said 11 on my tv guide.


----------



## Bullsky

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



LegoHat said:


> ESPN2 are showing 4 of the 8 "Eight Final" games, but after that they will broadcast the rest of the games.
> 
> 2006 FIBA World Championship TV Schedule


Thanks, Lego. I understand now. I can't wait to see more teams!


----------



## McBulls

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

USA blowing out Senegal at the half 58-24. 

It's kind of hard to evaluate the team in this kind of game. The defense is very aggressive -- led by Hinrich, who has been smothering the opposition point guard. 

The offense seems to be mostly one-on-one after an entry pass; but what's wrong with that with these mismatches? Working against a 2-3 zone, has been mostly standard plays -- dribble entry to the foul line, over-the-top passes for inside plays, and jump shots from the weak side. One back-pick for Carmello at the end of the half was an exceptional team offensive play. Against this team that basic approach works very well. But one can imagine a more agressive zone played by a better team could make the USA entirely dependent on jump shots.


----------



## LegoHat

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Noc and Argentina easily beat New Zealand 79-62 today. Noc played 23 minutes, but had a bad shooting night going 1/7, he did have 8 rebounds though. 

Boxscore: Argentina-New Zealand


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Italy UPSET by Lithuania 71-68

recap




> SAITAMA (FIBA World Championship) – The free-throw shooting gods saved Lithuania on Saturday as Italy missed six in the final eight seconds to crash out of the FIBA World Championship.
> 
> The Italians, who reached the last 16 despite needing a wild card to play in the tournament, had a chance to reach the quarter-finals but self-destructed.
> 
> With 2.8 seconds remaining and the Baltic giants leading 71-68, Lithuania fouled Marco Belinelli so Italy could not attempt a potential game-tying three-pointer.
> 
> Belinelli missed both shots from the stripe, but team-mate Gianluca Basile grabbed the long rebound and attempted to launch an attempt from the arc before time expired and as he did, he was fouled by Arvydas Macijauskas, one of the most experienced players in the Lithuania team.



----

on a programming note: ESPN2 was supposed to show the Argentina/NZ game last night but didn't. They have the USA game listed on the ESPN NBA front page as airing at Midnight ET, but i just checked my cable guide and it said 1 am ET. arrrgggh.

WHEN IS THIS GAME ON?


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

http://www.nba.com/usabasketball/wbc_blog_060818.html



> Somehow the U.S. team was able to catch some of the early game between bus rides and practice -- not to mention only having CNN, BBC, FOX, ABC Asia Pacific, Bloomberg and CNBC in English in the hotel's guest rooms. When we returned to the hotel for lunch, *Kirk Hinrich* asked if we had seen his Chicago Bulls teammate *Andres Nocioni* get levelled in Argentina's win over New Zealand. I hadn't seen any of the action, but Hinrich told us he was on the ball and ran into a pick set by a "little guy." Andres, if you're reading, screen your calls; Kirk's trying to find the name of your hotel so he can let you have it.




i think that ESPN/NBA TV should show EVERY GAME LIVE! i mean NBA TV is reairing some Lithuanian/Brazil game from the prelims. SHOW US THE FINAL EIGHT ROUND!


jeeez.


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> i think that ESPN/NBA TV should show EVERY GAME LIVE! i mean NBA TV is reairing some Lithuanian/Brazil game from the prelims. SHOW US THE FINAL EIGHT ROUND!
> 
> jeeez.


Agreed ... I can't get enough of this team.

I know as far as "The Worldwide Follower" as some are wont to call it, I'd sure as hell rather see the hoops rather than, say, poker or outdoors shows.

[EDIT : I mean what I said above, in all seriousness, but this was semi-post padding because I noticed I had 666 posts and, well, I didn't want to be more evil than I already am]


----------



## Bullsky

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Now they've changed the channel for USA's game against Australia from ESPN2 to NBATV, which I don't get. This is pissing me off. Does anyone know about a tape delay? According to the television schedule posted above, there should be a game on at 3:00 AM CT, and 8:00 PM CT but then again they didnt so ANY last night.


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Looks like the games not on ESPN anymore.


----------



## Showtyme

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Has anyone been keeping an eye on any international prospects?

For instance, on Lithuania's team, these Lavrinovic twins seem like something to take notice of. I'm sure they've made blips on the NBA radar already, as it was purported that they'd have been drafted if not for their contracts with their current teams. Darjus Lavrinovic seems especially interesting. He seems to be a similar player to Songaila, with real range to the international three (he's 6-for-8 from the arc in the FIBA Championship so far).

Born in 1979, he's 27 years old and playing good basketball. Would he find a place on our team as a utility PF? Consider that although Nocioni does a good job at the PF spot, Tyrus Thomas should explode there if all goes well, Deng has been frequenting camps with The Dream, and PJ Brown is one of the most consistent PF's even in his mature age, we don't have one guy that's supposed to be a PF and plays like one?

Just curious. It's been a slow offseason and I think we've got a good squad right now, and I'm sure we'll just end up adding Miles or some other undrafted guy and call it a summer; we certainly could do so satisfactorily. But I think good teams have to constantly replenish their talent. Bulls dynasties were great examples of that; so were the Lakers teams with Kobe and Shaq. I think San Antonio's done a good job mixing up the talent around Tim Duncan, constantly keeping an eye on international players and picking up useful free agent veterans at the right time.

We should also be keeping our eye on talent, I think.


----------



## Bullsky

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



sloth said:


> Looks like the games not on ESPN anymore.


Now I'm confused. On NBA.com is says its on NBATV. However, on the ESPN2 scroll, it says coverage starts at 1:00 am ET on ESPN2.



Showtyme said:


> We should also be keeping our eye on talent, I think.


Definately. Someone that has caught my eye is Yannick Bokolo. He's a guard out of France. He's a great defender. Good anticipation, sees passing lanes well. Freakish athlete. Could use a more polished offensive game(hes a little raw) but I think he could do it. Oh, and hes only 21.


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Bullsky said:


> Now I'm confused. On NBA.com is says its on NBATV. However, on the ESPN2 scroll, it says coverage starts at 1:00 am ET on ESPN2.
> 
> 
> 
> Definately. Someone that has caught my eye is Yannick Bokolo. He's a guard out of France. He's a great defender. Good anticipation, sees passing lanes well. Freakish athlete. Could use a more polished offensive game(hes a little raw) but I think he could do it. Oh, and hes only 21.


My Channel Guide says that the ATV Racing Tour is going to be on during the time while the games supposed to be on.


----------



## Bullsky

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



sloth said:


> My Channel Guide says that the ATV Racing Tour is going to be on during the time while the games supposed to be on.


Mine too. That and fishing, which is more important than USA basketball, right? 

Interesting note:

Last night, my guide said the basketball WOULD be on and it wasnt. So maybe the guides are off? I don't know. Im searching for positive news on this. I don't want to have to watch it on delay or just highlights.


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Bullsky said:


> Mine too. That and fishing, which is more important than USA basketball, right?
> 
> Interesting note:
> 
> Last night, my guide said the basketball WOULD be on and it wasnt. So maybe the guides are off? I don't know. Im searching for positive news on this. I don't want to have to watch it on delay or just highlights.


Yeah, there was a The Contender marathon on last night.

Since the game won't be on, we can turn on MTV and watch "Fun, Sun & Totally Done: The Real World Key West Reunion"


----------



## Bullsky

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

It's on ESPN2!! One hour tape delay, but better than nothing.


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Bullsky said:


> Well, maybe its better that this ISNT on tv. USA was up 59-29 at half and now lead 70-38 in the third.
> 
> Anthony has 16
> Johnson 14
> Wade 10
> 
> Kirk: 2 pts, 1-1 FG, 3 AST, and 2 REBS in 11 minutes.


Thanks for ruining the game for everyone on ESPN2. Your supposed to put *spoilers*


----------



## Bullsky

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



sloth said:


> Thanks for ruining the game for everyone on ESPN2. Your supposed to put *spoilers*


Sorry sloth. I edited my post. I didn't even know it was on ESPN2 until just now. Sorry again....


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

It looks close now . Not sure why coach K still has them gambling on every steal, if he didn't notice, none of these foreign players can take the Team USA guys off the dribble.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

http://www.usabasketball.com/seniormen/2006/06_mwc_game6_quotes.html

_*General comments on today's game:*
We wanted to get out of the gates in the medal round. We wanted to send a message to teams around the world. We know there are a lot of good teams out there and that we’re going to have to play better as we go along. Right now, we’re happy with the way we played today. Everybody gave it a good effort and we’re moving forward.

The arena is a beautiful arena. It’s huge, state of the art. It’s fun to play in the bigger atmosphere. Everybody felt good in front of the bigger audience. The stakes are higher and we were trying to step our game up.

*About the USA style of play:*
We want to dictate the game with our defensive pressure. If we can take teams out of their sets, make them do things that they are uncomfortable doing, it will hopefully play into our hands.

*Are you your own toughest opponents?*
No, I don’t think so. We respect all of our opponents. Don’t get me wrong, but if we can apply our defensive pressure, it will be to our advantage. We want to make the tempo fast, get out in the open floor with the players we have, it plays into our hands.

*About playing against Germany next:*
Playing against Germany we obviously have to face the big fella, Dirk. He’s an amazing player. He poses unbelievable matchup problems for any team, either in the NBA or here. He is used to playing internationally and with his German teammates. He poses a real challenge. We are going to have to a great job on him and his team as a whole. We are not looking past anyone. We know they are a team to be reckoned with. _



USA-Australia Box Score


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

I'm speaking a bit too soon in saying this, but after watching this game, I have a thought.

Coach K is doing an excellent job with this team, clearly better than Larry Brown. Yes, the team has a better roster, but nevertheless I think coaching philosophy is helping them succeed. 

Now that I think about the fact that this tournament becomes single elimination, I am wondering if an elilte college coach would always be the best choice for international basketball tournaments. College coaches who have led their team to six straight must-wins to become NCAA championships know how to play it game by game, whereas perhaps pro coaches are not as accustomed to that unique kind of pressure.

Maybe this is the new model for American success in international competition.

We shall see. 

However, it's totally obvious to me that having two ball-protecting floor generals (Paul and Hinrich) has been huge for this team. Sure, the US team has been making mistakes, but generally not those two, and in a close game, either will be able to make the sound decisions necessary to push the US team to a victory. 

Strong distributing point guards who don't turn the ball over need to also be part of the model for USA basketball. Despite his weak defense, I think even a point guard like Ridnour would have worked on this team. I think we may have figured out to succeed in international ball.

But then again, maybe I'm speaking too soon. Argentina should be a bear, should we get that far.


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*











Um ... is this the best photo Getty Images could muster of Hinrich? Geez.


----------



## Bullsky

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Did anyone watch Australia in the prelims? I thought they were bad, but not this bad. We dominated them. On to the next round! We must keep our focus.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Kelly Dwyer





> *That quarter, and the 113-73 win, was an impressive display. Team USA played its best help and strong-side defense of its World Championships run so far. Coach Mike Krzyzewski's crew pointedly stopped overplaying the big men who cut towards the ball on the perimeter, leaving fewer angles for the Aussies to hit backdoor cutters or shooters looking to work their perimeter fancy. Players like Kirk Hinrich, Joe Johnson and Shane Battier made sound decisions when it came to going over or under on screen and roll plays. The team moved its feet, it talked to each other and the interior defense was terrific.*
> 
> ----
> 
> *The little guys are helping in that area, as Hinrich's 4.2 rebounds per game ranks third on Team USA behind Bosh and Howard. Hinrich was everywhere in that second quarter against the Aussies, creating havoc in the passing lanes, forcing opponents into bad passes that invariably ended up as a turnover a few moves later -- one that would sometimes see Hinrich gobble up the loose ball. As good as Chris Paul (4.8 assists for every one turnover so far in the tournament) has been on offense, Hinrich has been on defense -- and nowhere was this more evident than in Team USA's thorough domination of the Aussies in the second quarter on Sunday.*


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


>


I stand corrected.


----------



## Rhyder

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Anyone know when our game vs. Germany is scheduled to be?


----------



## Bullsky

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Rhyder said:


> Anyone know when our game vs. Germany is scheduled to be?


According to the Televison Schedule and the Elimination Bracket, the USA will play Germany at 6:30 AM ET on ESPN2.


----------



## such sweet thunder

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


>


I'd be smiling if I was talking to her. But that's just me.


----------



## kulaz3000

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



soonerterp said:


> Um ... is this the best photo Getty Images could muster of Hinrich? Geez.


just an observation, but when did Hinrich sign up with Converse? i didn't even know converse was still in existence.

edit: mental lapse, of course converse was still in existence. wade is signed up with them isn't he?


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



kulaz3000 said:


> just an observation, but when did Hinrich sign up with Converse? i didn't even know converse was still in existence.
> 
> edit: mental lapse, of course converse was still in existence. wade is signed up with them isn't he?


At least since he was a rook.

But even so, if I'm not mistaken, Converse is sort of owned by Nike.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

converse is fully owned by nike. kirk's had a shoe deal with them since his rookie year. it was the ill-fated "Loaded Weapon" shoe - commericials were pulled because of the name. there is supposed to be a new Converse campaign this fall. D-Wade is also a Converse guy, obviously. 



oh, and kirk is proud to be an american!

(nice interview in the suntimes today)

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sports/cst-spt-usa28.html


Reached via e-mail, Hinrich shared his thoughts about the tournament:


_*Q. What has this experience been like for you?*

A. I just feel fortunate to be here and to take part in the World Championship. I'm having a great time getting to know all the guys and playing with them instead of against them all the time. We've been pretty successful and it's been a great experience so far.


*Q. What's it like playing for Coach Mike Krzyzewski and with guys like LeBron James and Dwyane Wade?*

A. Playing for Coach K has been great; obviously, his basketball knowledge is off the charts and I think he's done a great job with this team. He's giving us structure but at the same time he's letting us play and he does a great job of motivating us as well. I love playing alongside all these guys -- Dwyane, LeBron, all of them, they make everything so much easier for you and that's just what great players do.


*Q. From reading reports, it seems as if there's a sense of team unity and pride you guys have about this event. Can you describe it?*

A. I think there definitely is unity and pride amongst the team. Whenever you have a chance to represent your country you should take great pride in that and I think that is what every individual on this team has done and it makes it fun. Everybody takes it upon themselves to do their job and we're going out there and playing hard and having a good time while we're doing it.


*Q. How's your stamina? Traveling can be very tiring. What are your plans as far as resting after the tournament and during training camp?*

A. My stamina is good. I'm splitting playing time so I'm just trying to play as hard as I can for the minutes while I'm in there. Obviously, I think this is going to help me be in good shape when the season starts. Hopefully, I won't be too tired, I'll be able to get some rest in my time off in September and be ready to go for the season._






oh and thunder, i think he's moved beyond "eye contact" in that picture as he's adjusting himself *ahem* and probably thinking about giving the "exclusive" interview back at the four seasons.


:angel:


----------



## such sweet thunder

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> oh and thunder, i think he's moved beyond "eye contact" in that picture as he's adjusting himself *ahem* and probably thinking about giving the "exclusive" interview back at the four seasons.
> 
> 
> :angel:



I completely missed that. There are no pockets on those shorts.


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> converse is fully owned by nike. kirk's had a shoe deal with them since his rookie year. it was the ill-fated "Loaded Weapon" shoe - commericials were pulled because of the name ...


Oh yes! I forgot about that little controversy!


----------



## DaBullz

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

You know what? I haven't been following or watching any of this FIBA stuff.

How's Kirk doing? I'd expect he's coach K's right way kind of guy and should be the starter. True?

Is he playing like an all-star among all-stars?


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



DaBullz said:


> You know what? I haven't been following or watching any of this FIBA stuff.
> 
> How's Kirk doing? I'd expect he's coach K's right way kind of guy and should be the starter. True?
> 
> Is he playing like an all-star among all-stars?



As evident elsewhere in this thread, he is getting a LOT of praise for his defense.

Someone else linked an article by Kelly Dwyer @ si.com that addresses just that a day or so ago.


----------



## DaBullz

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



soonerterp said:


> As evident elsewhere in this thread, he is getting a LOT of praise for his defense.
> 
> Someone else linked an article by Kelly Dwyer @ si.com that addresses just that a day or so ago.


Is that it? Is he leading the team in any statistical category? 

Is he getting lots of minutes because of garbage time?

Is he starting?


----------



## such sweet thunder

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



DaBullz said:


> You know what? I haven't been following or watching any of this FIBA stuff.
> 
> How's Kirk doing? I'd expect he's coach K's right way kind of guy and should be the starter. True?
> 
> Is he playing like an all-star among all-stars?


Have to agree with Soonerterp. Kirk's surprisingly (at least to me) good playing amongst all-stars. He's playing some pretty ball; not the twelvth man like I was expecting. International ball seems to mirror the NCAA in that a good distributing point guard is gold. Hinrich and Paul are complementing each other well. If I had to rank him, I would slot him just under: Wade, Lebron, Anthony, D. Howard, and Paul.


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



such sweet thunder said:


> Have to agree with Soonerterp. Kirk's surprisingly (at least to me) good playing amongst all-stars. He's playing some pretty ball; not the twelvth man like I was expecting. International ball seems to mirror the NCAA in that a good distributing point guard is gold. Hinrich and Paul are complementing each other well. If I had to rank him, I would slot him just under: Wade, Lebron, Anthony, D. Howard, and Paul.



Aww, thank you for noticing me! 

Wasn't he leading the USA team in rebounds? The FIBA site is kinda buggy when I've gone on it so I don't really bother now (kinda like this very site is running kinda slow lately since they introduced content links ... ugh!). But anyway what Hinrich has not necessarily done in scoring he HAS made up for significantly in steel-trap defense, and yes he and Paul do complement each other well (although I still think Paul, talented as he is, obviously isn't as experienced as Hinrich).


----------



## Ron Cey

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

I finally get up to watch one of these live, and its not on for some reason. 

Just my luck.


----------



## McBulls

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



DaBullz said:


> Is that it? Is he leading the team in any statistical category?
> 
> Is he getting lots of minutes because of garbage time?
> 
> Is he starting?


Let's put it this way, his play on team USA hasn't hurt his chances for a big contract extension when he gets back this fall. He's shown he can play with the best. He sent Arenas home during tryouts. In many respects he's been a better point guard than Paul. In short, he's demonstrated that he's one of the best point guards in the world at this time. The Bulls would be wise to let him play that position next year.


----------



## Ron Cey

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

I finally get up to watch one of these live, and its not on for some reason. 

Just my luck.


----------



## LegoHat

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Spain is in the semifinals with a convincing 89-67 victory over Lithuania, they will face the winner of Germany vs. Turkey.

Boxscore: Spain-Lithuania


----------



## Wynn

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



LegoHat said:


> Spain is in the semifinals with a convincing 89-67 victory over Lithuania, they will face the winner of Germany vs. Turkey.
> 
> Boxscore: Spain-Lithuania


I thought we were facing Germany. Did we lose already?


----------



## Darius Miles Davis

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Wynn said:


> I thought we were facing Germany. Did we lose already?


Actually, Spain will be facing Argentina in the semifinal, which is lucky for us, because they're probably the two best teams left in the tournament.

The USA/Germany game is on at 3:30am tomorrow morning Arizona time, so I assume it's on at 5:30am Central and 6:30am Eastern. I'm not sure if that's live or tape delayed, but I do know the game hasn't happened yet.


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Will Team USA be the biggest underdog to ever win? Thats what ESPN's telling me...


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*














_SAITAMA, Japan (AP) -- Argentina's second straight semifinal appearance in the FIBA world championships will mean its toughest test in this tournament.

*Andres Nocioni scored 21 points and Argentina dominated Turkey 83-58 on Tuesday night in the quarterfinals.*


Argentina (7-0) lost to Yugoslavia in the final game in 2002, and followed that by winning the gold medal at the Athens Olympics.

With most of the players back from those teams, Argentina will face Spain (7-0) on Friday in the semifinals. Spain beat Lithuania 89-67 on Tuesday in the quarterfinals.

Both teams have run over their opponents in this tournament, with average margin of victories in the 20s. They both have NBA stars -- Argentina has Manu Ginobili of the San Antonio Spurs and Spain has Pau Gasol of the Memphis Grizzlies.

"These are two of the best teams in the world and they play similar games with smart players," Argentina coach Sergio Hernandez said of the final four matchup. "It will be a great, great game and people will enjoy it and nobody can say before the game who will win."

*Nocioni, who plays for the Chicago Bulls, was 6-for-7 from the field and grabbed six rebounds to lead Argentina in its latest blowout. The South Americans came in having won its first six games by an average of 23 points.*_

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-worlds-argentina-turkey&prov=ap&type=lgns



Argentina v. Spain is going to be one HELL of a game. i hope it's aired live, but it probably won't be.

USA-Germany *IS LIVE* on wednesday at 6:30 am ET/5:30 am CT on ESPN2


----------



## Ron Cey

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Darius Miles Davis said:


> The USA/Germany game is on at 3:30am tomorrow morning Arizona time, so I assume it's on at 5:30am Central and 6:30am Eastern. I'm not sure if that's live or tape delayed, but I do know the game hasn't happened yet.


When did that happen? As reported here, and as shown on the guide on my TV both last night and this morning as well as the NBATV ticker, this game was to air live on ESPN 2 at 5:30 am this morning. 

This sucks.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

ron. it's only early morning wednesday in japan right now.

the game is on wednesday. always has been on wednesday. 

set your alarm tomorrow and you won't be sorry!


http://www.usabasketball.com/seniormen/2006/06_mwc_schedule.html


----------



## thebullybully

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

I'm really annoyed. I recorded the timeslot that the guide indicated would be the Argentina game, and all I got was two hours of espn radio hot air. Why can't we see the other games? Very frustrating especially since Nocioni is doing well. I would like to see that. At the very least if they have no intention of airing it, don't put it on the schedule.

:whoknows:


----------



## WestHighHawk

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



> FIBA World Championship-NBA TV this afternoon (ET).
> 2 pm - Spain vs. Lituania
> 4 pm - Argentina vs. Turkey




At least if you have NBA TV, you can see the games. 

Recording is set at my house :biggrin:


----------



## The ROY

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Noc is a warrior...

is Ginobili even playing? Noc has been leading them in scoring almost EVERY game.....and one of the main reasons why they're so dominant....


----------



## Diable

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



The ROY said:


> Noc is a warrior...
> 
> is Ginobili even playing? Noc has been leading them in scoring almost EVERY game.....and one of the main reasons why they're so dominant....


Uh...No...He went like 1-8 with 2 points in one of the games.Argentina is a very deep team with Scola,Oberto,Hermann,Nocioni and Ginobli all sharing the scoring.Hermann led them in scoring twice off the bench in blowouts and Manu had 28 in the New Zealand game when everyone else was cold.Nocioni is really just one among many for Argentina.


----------



## Hustle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

If, I mean when the US is playing in the finals will they at least delay the showing of that game so people can actually watch it? this 5:30 crap is ridiculous.


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Hustle said:


> If, I mean when the US is playing in the finals will they at least delay the showing of that game so people can actually watch it? this 5:30 crap is ridiculous.


Yeah, thats the only problem with playing in Japan...hopefully we get it back to the United States for 2010, hopefully Chicago too! Chicago would be a good place for the World's in 2010. Because your going to have Gordon, Hinrich, and Oden on the USA team. Thabo on the Swiss team. Deng on Englands team. Nocioni on Argentina. Bring the Worlds to Chicago in 2010!


----------



## LegoHat

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Hustle said:


> If, I mean when the US is playing in the finals will they at least delay the showing of that game so people can actually watch it? this 5:30 crap is ridiculous.


For just this one event, I'd rather get up and watch the games live, just like I would for the Olympics. It sucks, but watching the delayed games is just not the same thing as watching them live.


----------



## Sixerfanforlife

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Oden and the others commited for 3 yrs, so they won't be playing in the 10' olympics. Sorry


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Game on.

Germany had the early lead but LBJ just tied it up. About 8 minutes and change left in the first.

Hinrich did not start ... defence not looking great early on.

This is going to be one hell of a tough game, I just feel it.

Wish USA was looking a little better at offensive rebounding early.


----------



## Dancon7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

The USA is having a tough time shooting the ball in the first quarter, but they're getting to the line.

Joe Johnson just hit a 3. 21-20 Germany 1 minute left in the first quarter.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



sloth said:


> Yeah, thats the only problem with playing in Japan...hopefully we get it back to the United States for 2010, hopefully Chicago too! Chicago would be a good place for the World's in 2010. Because your going to have Gordon, Hinrich, and Oden on the USA team. Thabo on the Swiss team. Deng on Englands team. Nocioni on Argentina. Bring the Worlds to Chicago in 2010!


worlds in 2010 are in Turkey. already decided.

had to get up and watch this one live, didn't opt for my "personal DVR delay".

the minute kirk goes in the defense picks up 10 fold. now he's out with his second foul early in the second.

this could be a rough game. USA still not able to crack the zone. 

winner of this game will play Greece on friday.

anthony's shot is OFF today.

i need more coffee.


----------



## Bullsky

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

USA looking very off early.

Let's hope they find their shooting soon. I'd like to see Joe Johnson get more minutes since he's been hot recently.


----------



## narek

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

I hope they replay this later. My VCR isn't working and I must be in at work in 30 minutes. 

Look for the open shot guys, feed the ball inside to Howard or Brand, but move that damn thing.


----------



## IbizaXL

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

WAde LBJ and Melo are off right now, i think theyll pick it up in half time. there needs to be more ball movement! I would play Kirk for most of the game, his defense has been great


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

just caught on the graphic at the bottom of the screen ESPN2 WILL carry *BOTH the semis LIVE on FRIDAY* sept. 1st at 3:30 am and 6:30 am.

i think the Spain/Argentina game is the first one. second will be Greece/Winner of USA/Germany.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

yikes. 

10-38 from outside tonight for the US. 

:sour:


----------



## Wynn

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Do we have a final?


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

USA wins to advance to the semis v. Greece.

*final score 85-65*

it was the offensive rebounding that saved the day. team USA was ice cold from outside tonight. really bad. 

USA v. Greece Friday Sept. 1 @ 6:30am ET - ESPN2


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

USA/Germany Box Score


_SAITAMA, Japan (AP) - Carmelo Anthony scored 10 of his 19 points in the third quarter and the United States went on to beat Germany 85-65 Wednesday in the quarterfinals of the basketball world championships.

LeBron James added 13 points for the United States, which broke away from a one-point halftime lead by using a flurry of steals and blocks to outscore Germany 16-2 over a nearly six-minute span in the third period.

The Americans (7-0) remained one of the four unbeaten teams and advanced to face European champion Greece (7-0) Friday night in the semifinals. Greece beat France 73-56 earlier Wednesday.

But this was unlike the other American victories in Japan.

Instead of looking like the team that came in averaging 109.3 points, the Americans looked like the ones that have come up short in recent years because of a lack of perimeter shooting. They shot 37.6 percent (32-of-85) and were 10-of-40 from 3-point range.

But they kept it from being costly by pressuring Germany's guards and preventing them from getting the ball to superstar Dirk Nowitzki, who finished 3-of-12 with five turnovers.

Nowitzki and Ademola Okulaja each scored 15 points for Germany, the bronze medalist in the 2002 world championships. The Germans (5-2) will face France in a classification-round game on Thursday night and can still finish fifth.

*Leading 40-39 at the break, the United States came out of the break with a new lineup - Anthony, James, Joe Johnson, Kirk Hinrich and Dwight Howard - and forced three turnovers in the first 1:01 of the third quarter.*

The Germans were still within a point before Anthony followed a 3-pointer with a steal a dunk. Elton Brand's follow shot made it 51-43 with 6:41 remaining in the period.

Okulaja made a jumper, but Anthony drilled another 3, Dwyane Wade made a free throw, Johnson had a basket and Chris Bosh converted a three-point play on an alley-oop that extended the Americans' lead to 60-45 with 1:53 left in the quarter.

The United States had five blocked shots and seven steals in the quarter, taking a 67-52 lead on Chris Paul's jumper as the buzzer sounded.

Sitting back in a zone that featured Nowitzki, Patrick Femerling and 6-8 Okulaja along the back line, Germany forced the United States to shoot from the outside. And unlike Sunday's rout of Australia, when the Americans were 14-of-27 from 3-point range, they were woeful behind the arc Wednesday.

The Americans were 5-of-20 in the first half, including one miss when Wade appeared to try to bank one in and it missed the rim entirely - and that was while he could still see straight.

Wade went to the bench a few minutes later after taking a shot to the eye from Pascal Roller while going for a loose ball. He sat the remainder of the half and returned 4 1/2 minutes into the third quarter - and promptly threw up an airball on his first shot attempt.

But Germany could never take much of a lead because of foul trouble. Both Nowitzki and Okulaja were on the bench in the final minute with three apiece, and the United States took a 40-39 lead when Anthony made a 3-pointer with 47 seconds to go.

That was one of the few highlights in the first half for Anthony, who missed his first eight shots and was 2-of-12. Wade - who came in combining with Anthony for nearly 40 points per game - was 1-for-7.

Shane Battier started on Nowitzki, and James and Chris Bosh would get cracks at the Dallas Mavericks All-Star later in the period. All did a good job, forcing Nowitzki to miss his last five shots as the Americans took a 23-21 lead._


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*










nocioni and co. were scouting the USA/Germany game


----------



## Hustle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Why did USA take 40 threes and only 45 twos? That is not going to continue to work, and just makes no sense.


----------



## such sweet thunder

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> nocioni and co. were scouting the USA/Germany game


 I didn't know Fabio was from Argentina.


----------



## narek

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> nocioni and co. were scouting the USA/Germany game


They don't look worried, do they?


----------



## synergy825

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

They don't look worried, because they are among the favorites to win the tournament along with USA and Spain. All three teams are undefeated and have beaten each of their opponents rather easily.


----------



## Diable

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Hustle said:


> Why did USA take 40 threes and only 45 twos? That is not going to continue to work, and just makes no sense.


Germany played a really compacted zone the entire game.We really did a good job of penetrating into the middle of it and creating wide open shots,but nobody hit anything in the first half and not so much from outside in the second half.We had wide open treys from guys who have been hitting over 40% as a team,but they didn't go down.

The Germans adopted a very sound defensive stategy by gambling that we would miss those shots,but in the end our talent and athleticism prevailed.It's fortunate that we weren't up against a stronger opponent.If we the same percentage of treys that we had been hitting then we win by forty.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Kelly Dwyer - SI




> Great defense and bad jump shots. It's the American way.
> 
> Team USA routed Germany 85-65 on Wednesday, but not before a Dirk Nowitzki-led outfit gave the Americans a bit of a scare with its exacting first half play. Dirk himself wasn't the most feared aspect of the Deutschland attack; rather, it was a zone defense that frustrated the U.S. into just 40 first-half points (it was averaging 109 points per game heading in) and a one-point halftime advantage.
> 
> Germany packed the lane defensively, which turned out to be a sound coaching decision as the U.S. missed 30 of 40 attempts from behind the arc. Coach Mike Krzyzewski's team wasn't forcing things from the perimeter; it was pointedly taking what Germany was giving it offensively, and missing, and missing, and missing ...
> 
> *Still, Team USA's defense more than made up for its pitiful outside touch. Led by an undersized backcourt of Chris Paul and Kirk Hinrich, inspired pressure defense took Germany out of its offensive sets, rendered Nowitzki (also hampered by first-half foul trouble) useless in the half-court, and kept things within chucking distance until the U.S. got its act together offensively.*
> 
> *Hinrich, as he's been for the duration of the tournament, was a real force on defense -- pushing the German guards toward their off hands, and cutting into the lane off the ball to take charges.*


----------



## L.O.B

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Just got done watching the game. Have I mentioned how much I love watching this current US team play basketball? What a collection of team players, even the big three play within the team concept. 

Hinrich did alot of thing today that don't show in a box score, he was a pest and did a great job of ball hawking and playing screens. Fran Fra pointed out a number of times how much Kirk was influencing Germany's guard play. Kirk and Paul played most of the 3rd together, which is when the US made their run. 

Battier makes me dream of what could of been. Why couldn't Jerry played it safe and added Shane to that team. Brand, Miller, Artest and Battier would of been one hell of a core. Battier played Dirk tough today and has done a great job playing opposing bigs through out the championships. 

Chris Bosh does some insane things for a man his size. He was very active today. 

Lebron James gets it. I love his game. He reminds me a little of Magic, I wonder what he could do in a showtime offense? James also guarded Dirk and did a damn good job of it. 

Wade continues to amaze me with his quickness, he had a spin move today that had my head spinning. He didn't finish the play but it was still awesome. 

Dwight Howard is everything you could want in a young big man. Chandler and Curry merged wouldn't be as good as Howard is now. 

USA basketball is in great shape, regardless of the outcome of these championships. This team is so young and will grow into a world dominating team with expirence.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

recap of the Greece/France contest:

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/wbc2006/news/story?id=2565883

*ESPN's site (see box in the link) says that the US/GREECE game is the early game, therefore, gulp, will be the one played at 3:30 am ET. The USA Basketball site has it as the second game but does say that the game schedules are "TBD".*


----------



## Hustle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> *ESPN's site (see box in the link) says that the US/GREECE game is the early game, therefore, gulp, will be the one played at 3:30 am ET.* The USA Basketball site has it as the second game but does say that the game schedules are "TBD".


Hay messenger :rocket:


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

FIBA WEBSITE also has the USA/GREECE game as the first semifinal to be played, followed by SPAIN/ARG.

ick.


----------



## such sweet thunder

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



L.O.B said:


> Just got done watching the game. Have I mentioned how much I love watching this current US team play basketball? What a collection of team players, even the big three play within the team concept.
> 
> Hinrich did alot of thing today that don't show in a box score, he was a pest and did a great job of ball hawking and playing screens. Fran Fra pointed out a number of times how much Kirk was influencing Germany's guard play. Kirk and Paul played most of the 3rd together, which is when the US made their run.
> 
> Battier makes me dream of what could of been. Why couldn't Jerry played it safe and added Shane to that team. Brand, Miller, Artest and Battier would of been one hell of a core. Battier played Dirk tough today and has done a great job playing opposing bigs through out the championships.
> 
> Chris Bosh does some insane things for a man his size. He was very active today.
> 
> Lebron James gets it. I love his game. He reminds me a little of Magic, I wonder what he could do in a showtime offense? James also guarded Dirk and did a damn good job of it.
> 
> Wade continues to amaze me with his quickness, he had a spin move today that had my head spinning. He didn't finish the play but it was still awesome.
> 
> Dwight Howard is everything you could want in a young big man. Chandler and Curry merged wouldn't be as good as Howard is now.
> 
> USA basketball is in great shape, regardless of the outcome of these championships. This team is so young and will grow into a world dominating team with expirence.


Completely agree. It doesn't even matter to me if Team USA wins -- they're just fun to watch. 

Just to supplement what you said about Battier, a couple of weeks before the games started I wrote a post that Battier won't contribute anything because his skill set is largely duplicated by teammates. Kukoc4ever responded that he thought Battier was a good selection because of his outside shooting, and glue skills . . . I have to say that Kukoc was right. I've been surpised at how well Battier has contributed -- especially coming off the bench.


----------



## Wynn

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



such sweet thunder said:


> Completely agree. It doesn't even matter to me if Team USA wins -- they're just fun to watch.
> 
> Just to supplement what you said about Battier, a couple of weeks before the games started I wrote a post that Battier won't contribute anything because his skill set is largely duplicated by teammates. Kukoc4ever responded that he thought Battier was a good selection because of his outside shooting, and glue skills . . . I have to say that Kukoc was right. I've been surpised at how well Battier has contributed -- especially coming off the bench.


I agree with both of you about Battier........ gotta say, though, I take Noc 10 times out of 10.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

http://www.usabasketball.com/seniormen/2006/06_mwc_game7_quotes.html

_*USA HEAD COACH MIKE KRZYZEWSKI*

*On the game with Germany:*

Their substitution plan was excellent. When we had two bigs, they had Dirk go to the ‘five’ and brought in four shooters. I thought they did a really good job. I thought our guys played the best defensively, in a pressure situation that you could.

We didn’t shoot the ball well. We also missed a lot of shots right by the basket. We got a little a head of ourselves. Defensively, we forced 24 turnovers and we out-rebounded them. The things that win ballgames for you, our guys did.

LeBron, I don’t think people have talked about him as a defensive player. But, tonight, he was a really good defensive player. *Kirk Hinrich was truly amazing with his ball pressure.*

At the start of the second half, it was as good as I’ve seen. We won, not having a good offensive night and you have to give credit to Germany for that. Not just that we missed, but they put us in that position to miss shots and I thought we kept our composure and we didn’t lose sight of it on the defensive end.

That was the story of the game._


_*KIRK HINRICH*

*Game vs. Germany tonight*

We were able to tough it out tonight. We didn’t get out to the start we wanted to. To our credit, we battled. I think it was a good win for us. It was a hard fought game. Germany played well. We’re happy to get the win and move on. We know the stakes are getting higher and that we are going to have to play a lot better.

*On the defense on Nowitzki tonight:*

We did a really good job defensively on Dirk. Shane, Chris, everybody got on him. They did a great job doing everything they could. Against a guy like Dirk you can play great defense and he can still have a great night. He missed shots tonight but I think that what they did defensively had a lot to do with it.

*On the uselfish play of the team:*

It’s been good. Tonight to start the game we were kind of holding the ball a little bit. It wasn’t selfishness, we just weren’t moving the ball like we should have been. Then we came out in the second half and our defensive pressure picked up and when we do that and force teams into doing something they’re not used to doing, it plays into our hands.

*The crowd tonight was into the game:*

It was great. That’s what makes basketball so great—to have a good environment. It seems like each game they’re getting louder and we’re looking forward to the remaining games.”

*On playing Greece next:*

We know they’re a good team—strong, physical, hard-nosed and ready to play, but we have been focused on Germany for the last 2 days. We’ll look at the tapes and go over the coaches scouting reports and get ready for Friday. To be able to beat Greece we’re going to have to have our best performance._


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

fyi - ESPN2 will re-air the USA - Germany game tonight at 10pm ET/9pm CT for those that care to watch again/were unable to see this game live.


----------



## narek

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> fyi - ESPN2 will re-air the USA - Germany game tonight at 10pm ET/9pm CT for those that care to watch again/were unable to see this game live.


Good! 

It was great to stumble across the Austraila/USA game Monday night. I do want to see that third quarter. Let's hope they replay that early morning Friday game, too. I don't work Friday, but I don't think I could be up for two hours to watch a game and go back to sleep. Must get VCR fixed soon.


----------



## L.O.B

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



narek said:


> Good!
> Must get VCR fixed soon.


throw it away and get a dvr recorder of some type, you won't be sorry.


----------



## badfish

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> fyi - ESPN2 will re-air the USA - Germany game tonight at 10pm ET/9pm CT for those that care to watch again/were unable to see this game live.



Thanks Miz! I had the game Tivo'd, but my kids cancelled the recording so they could watch Fairly Oddparents. :curse:


----------



## thebullybully

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

I am really enjoying this tournament, but I have to say I'm a little torn. I love watching these guys come together as a team and play a different style of game less focused on individual talents, and more focused on the compliments of those talents.... but, I don't think we're even seeing what they could really be in the international game, because they are going to hit their stride just about when it's over.

They are just starting to learn to take advantage of FIBA goal tending differences, and figuring out how to not get called for fouls.

Then I'm torn because I wouldn't want them to have to commit more time, and be unprepared or worn out in the NBA season.

Anybody watched alot of FIBA? Have the rules changed much over the years? As more and more international players go to the NBA and more and more US players go to the International leagues. Is there a chance the games will move closer to each other so a world championship isn't a completely different game than the US team is used to playing year round, or will that just always be the first argument every time for why the US will have trouble competing?

Torn again because I don't think I'd want alot of those rules in the NBA, and getting the games closer would surely require the NBA changing some too.


----------



## Wynn

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



thebullybully said:


> I am really enjoying this tournament, but I have to say I'm a little torn. I love watching these guys come together as a team and play a different style of game less focused on individual talents, and more focused on the compliments of those talents.... but, I don't think we're even seeing what they could really be in the international game, because they are going to hit their stride just about when it's over.
> 
> They are just starting to learn to take advantage of FIBA goal tending differences, and figuring out how to not get called for fouls.
> 
> Then I'm torn because I wouldn't want them to have to commit more time, and be unprepared or worn out in the NBA season.
> 
> Anybody watched alot of FIBA? Have the rules changed much over the years? As more and more international players go to the NBA and more and more US players go to the International leagues. Is there a chance the games will move closer to each other so a world championship isn't a completely different game than the US team is used to playing year round, or will that just always be the first argument every time for why the US will have trouble competing?
> 
> *Torn again because I don't think I'd want alot of those rules in the NBA, and getting the games closer would surely require the NBA changing some too.*


Too late to stem that..... hand-checking fouls, zone defense, & defensive three-seconds I think may already be international influence. There's talk of the trapezoidal lane. I think it's ineveitable that there will be some cross-over between the leagues.


----------



## Cyanobacteria

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> http://www.usabasketball.com/seniormen/2006/06_mwc_game7_quotes.html
> 
> _*USA HEAD COACH MIKE KRZYZEWSKI*
> 
> *On the game with Germany:*
> 
> We didn’t shoot the ball well. We also missed a lot of shots right by the basket. We got a little a head of ourselves. Defensively, we forced 24 turnovers and we out-rebounded them. The things that win ballgames for you, our guys did.
> 
> LeBron, I don’t think people have talked about him as a defensive player. But, tonight, he was a really good defensive player. *Kirk Hinrich was truly amazing with his ball pressure.*
> 
> At the start of the second half, it was as good as I’ve seen._


High praise indeed. As good as he's ever seen?!? Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm guessing that Kryzzozoosky guy has watched a lot of ball in his days.

Every critic of USA bball has ranted about the outside shooting but Coach K hit the nail on the head, defense and rebounding. This team can score 85 even when they're building a brick house. They can also _SHUT. YOU. DOWN._ This is not something all-star teams do, it's something nitty-gritty teams do. From selection to coaching to the players, I've been really impressed by Team USA this time around.

I can't wait to watch Kirk start the 3rd in this one. VCR, don't fail me now (Thanks for the rebroadcast info too though).


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

watching a bit of the Greece/France replay on NBA TV. you know, scouting. :clown:

and #5 for Greece is SO LARGE he would make Mike Sweetney look like a supermodel. the guy is _ENORMOUS!_

Sofoklis SCHORTSIANITIS must tip the scales at close to 350 lbs, though i can't find that info on the less than reliable FIBA site. 


and you know you're absolutely correct CYNO, after thinking about how atrocious Team USA shot the ball today, thank goodness for the fact that coach K and staff have set DEFENSE as the #1 priority for this team. USA was seriously *badass take no prisoners* in this department today. Kirk was, as usual, excellent, and Chris Paul really got it going in the second half. Germany just had no answer even without Dirk's shot falling.

It's stuff like that that doesn't show up in the boxscore which was the key to the win.

Kirk's having an outstanding tournament in this regard. 




:rbanana:


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

All the kids on the playground make fun of Sofa too.


----------



## Bullsky

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Im a bit worried about Greece. They are a cohesize unit and play the euro-style well. The US team better have scouted well. If not, it could be a LONG morning/night.


----------



## Wynn

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



sloth said:


> All the kids on the playground make fun of Sofa too.


Ha!

Usually you just annoy me, *Sluggo!*, but I gotta hand it to you, "Sofa" and that pic are hilarious. Kudos.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

_Othella Macaroni, of course, was my other favourite......._


----------



## synergy825

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Will USA be able to beat Argentina or Spain? I think Spain will be no problem, however Argentina is another story. Argentina has been together for so long and they have cerebral players who can drain the 3. I still think though USA will take the gold but it's not going to be easy.


----------



## mgolding

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



synergy825 said:


> Will USA be able to beat Argentina or Spain? I think Spain will be no problem, however Argentina is another story. Argentina has been together for so long and they have cerebral players who can drain the 3. I still think though USA will take the gold but it's not going to be easy.


I'm not sure I agree with your assesment of Argentina and Spain. Spain has been playing as well and if not better than any team in this tournament. They are playing strong D, hit a great amount of outside shots and can really run. Spain defeated Argentina a couple of times in the warm ups for this tournament. Argentina and Spain are a reasonablyeven match. If I was a betting man (where's my booky) I would probably pick Spain. Argentina have been a little shaky with their outside shooting so far in this tournament and they'll need to be on target to beat spain and the US.

This is a scary man:


----------



## mgolding

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Also, I was wondering what kind of coverage these world championships have been getting in the US. When the sports on the news, how far back in the cue is the story about Team USA


----------



## Diable

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



synergy825 said:


> Will USA be able to beat Argentina or Spain? I think Spain will be no problem, however Argentina is another story. Argentina has been together for so long and they have cerebral players who can drain the 3. I still think though USA will take the gold but it's not going to be easy.


Greece is enough to worry about for the next two days.They're going to zone us too and if we can't shoot better from outside than we did today it's going to be a long game.Of course it's better to face Spain or Argentina instead of both of them.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

_first public comments from *Gilbert Arenas* since not making Team USA for Worlds:_





> *"They already knew what they wanted. They said it was a tryout, but they already had their team selected,"* he said after playing in a Goodman Summer League game at Barry Farms Park in Southeast Washington on Tuesday night and showing no signs of the injury.
> 
> Arenas emphasized that he hopes to remain part of the national program and play in the Beijing Olympics in 2008.
> 
> In four pre-tournament tune-up games, Arenas made one start and averaged 3.8 points, 2.3 rebounds and 11 minutes. *He was fighting for playing time in a crowded backcourt that includes Chris Paul, Shane Battier, Kirk Hinrich and Joe Johnson. Paul and Hinrich played the majority of minutes at point guard, and the team is loaded with perimeter scorers such as Johnson, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Carmelo Anthony.*
> 
> *"No joke, I felt like I was the 16th man on a 15-man roster," Arenas said. "You are there to support your team and support your country and be happy to play but you know, I did everything they wanted me to do; but if I did everything they wanted me to do, why am I on the bubble of getting cut? I sacrificed.* You've got LeBron being LeBron. You've got Carmelo being Carmelo. You've got D-Wade being D-Wade. Why can't I be me? Why do I have to transform? I did that and now you are going to cut me."
> 
> ---
> 
> Arenas, who averaged a career-high 29.4 points a game last season with the Wizards, said he tried to blend in by playing off the ball at shooting guard, by carefully picking his spots on offense and by hustling on defense but said he sensed that he was not a part of Coach Mike Krzyzewski's plans, saying, *"I think I was the only person he didn't talk to the whole time we were out there."*
> 
> ---
> 
> Arenas said he plans on reserving a little extra effort for two Team USA assistant coaches: Portland Trail Blazers head coach Nate McMillan and Phoenix Suns head coach Mike D'Antoni.
> 
> *"I'm going to be the silent assassin this year," he said. "I can't wait to play the Suns and Portland. Against Portland, Nate McMillan, I'm going to try to score 100 in two games and against D'Antoni, I'm going to score 100 in two games. I'm going to try."*



:eek8: 



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/30/AR2006083003244.html


----------



## synergy825

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mgolding said:


> I'm not sure I agree with your assesment of Argentina and Spain. Spain has been playing as well and if not better than any team in this tournament. They are playing strong D, hit a great amount of outside shots and can really run. Spain defeated Argentina a couple of times in the warm ups for this tournament. Argentina and Spain are a reasonablyeven match. If I was a betting man (where's my booky) I would probably pick Spain. Argentina have been a little shaky with their outside shooting so far in this tournament and they'll need to be on target to beat spain and the US.
> 
> This is a scary man:


I didn't know there was a black greek. hehe He has a greek last name as well.


----------



## McBulls

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> _first public comments from *Gilbert Arenas* since not making Team USA for Worlds:_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :eek8:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/30/AR2006083003244.html


Obviously it was not a very good idea to invite more NBA players to team USA than were needed. Next time they should forgo the pleasure of having to cut players from the team. After all, the guys are not even being paid.


----------



## Diable

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

For those who do not frequent the International forum ESPN has just announced that FIBA has switched the start times for fridays' semifinal games.Spain-Argentina will come on ESPN2 at 6:30 AM and USA-Greece will tip at 3:30AM.If someone feels it necessary you can start a new thread so that people won't set their alarms and find out the game has been over for an hour.


----------



## synergy825

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



McBulls said:


> Obviously it was not a very good idea to invite more NBA players to team USA than were needed. Next time they should forgo the pleasure of having to cut players from the team. After all, the guys are not even being paid.


They're not being paid? wow, I thought they were.


----------



## lgtwins

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> _first public comments from *Gilbert Arenas* since not making Team USA for Worlds:_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :eek8:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/30/AR2006083003244.html


Typical Arenas.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Diable said:


> For those who do not frequent the International forum ESPN has just announced that FIBA has switched the start times for fridays' semifinal games.Spain-Argentina will come on ESPN2 at 6:30 AM and USA-Greece will tip at 3:30AM.If someone feels it necessary you can start a new thread so that people won't set their alarms and find out the game has been over for an hour.


you have to get up pretty early in the morning to beat miz to the information punch in this thread!


#253



:smilewink


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

With Arenas out of the picture, hopefully Gordon gets an invite to camp next year. He is the shooter they could use right now.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

EARTHQUAKE!!

_SAITAMA, Japan (AP) -- A 4.8-magnitude earthquake jolted the Tokyo region on Thursday during halftime of the Lithuania-Turkey game in the FIBA championships.

There were no immediate reports of injuries or damage, the Meteorological Agency reported, and there was almost no reaction from the people in the Super Arena in Saitama, 17 miles north of Tokyo.

The quake shook buildings in central Tokyo and outside the capital.

The teams had just left the court at halftime of the classification game when the building shook for a few seconds. No announcement was made and the second half started without a delay.

The quake came about two hours after the U.S. team finished practicing at the Japan Institute of Sports Sciences in central Tokyo. USA Basketball spokesman Craig Miller said some staff members said they felt something, though there was no damage at the Four Seasons hotel where the Americans are staying._


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> EARTHQUAKE!!
> 
> _SAITAMA, Japan (AP) -- A 4.8-magnitude earthquake jolted the Tokyo region on Thursday during halftime of the Lithuania-Turkey game in the FIBA championships.
> 
> There were no immediate reports of injuries or damage, the Meteorological Agency reported, and there was almost no reaction from the people in the Super Arena in Saitama, 17 miles north of Tokyo.
> 
> The quake shook buildings in central Tokyo and outside the capital.
> 
> The teams had just left the court at halftime of the classification game when the building shook for a few seconds. No announcement was made and the second half started without a delay.
> 
> The quake came about two hours after the U.S. team finished practicing at the Japan Institute of Sports Sciences in central Tokyo. USA Basketball spokesman Craig Miller said some staff members said they felt something, though there was no damage at the Four Seasons hotel where the Americans are staying._


Was that when Sofa fell down in the parking lot?


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

FREE INSIDER TODAY! KIRK COULD GET THE START v. GREECE!


link




> SAITAMA, Japan -- *Coach Mike Krzyzewski plans to change his starting lineup for Team USA's semifinal game against Greece, likely going with Kirk Hinrich and Joe Johnson after they were two of the primary difference-makers in the quarterfinals.*
> 
> "We're going to switch it up a little bit. We haven't decided on the final lineup yet, but Kirk and Joe could be in there," Krzyzewski told Insider on Thursday.
> 
> *Coach K turned to Hinrich and Johnson at the start of the second half, after the U.S. had a poor first half against Germany, teaming them with Carmelo Anthony, LeBron James and Dwight Howard.*
> 
> The move paid immediate dividends, with the Americans turning up their defensive intensity over a key five-minute stretch that changed the complexion of the game. Germany never recovered, and Team USA went on to a 20-point victory that advanced them to a semifinal matchup against the unbeaten Greeks.
> 
> *"I just wanted to get a more experienced team and change the type of defense. Two of our best defenders are Joe and Kirk. I don't know if they're picked on NBA All-Defensive teams, but for us, we wanted to take a look at a lineup we'd use tomorrow night or Sunday, because we're not locked into anything," Coach K said.*




also, please note:



> The winner of the Greece-United States game (3:30 a.m. EDT, ESPN2) will advance to play the winner of the Spain-Argentina game (6:30 a.m. EDT, ESPN2).
> 
> *ESPN2 will re-broadcast Greece-USA on Friday at 4 p.m. Both semifinal games will also be re-broadcast Saturday afternoon on NBA TV and ESPN U (Spain-Argentina, 6 p.m.; Greece-USA, 8 p.m.).*
> 
> FIBA switched the Americans and Greeks into the early semifinal slot to ensure a larger television audience in Europe, where the Spain-Argentina game will begin in the late morning or early afternoon.


----------



## narek

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> FREE INSIDER TODAY! KIRK COULD GET THE START v. GREECE!
> 
> 
> link
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also, please note:


Yay for the rebroadcast! I can be awake at 3 pm, no problem.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/chris_ballard/08/31/inside.nba/index.html

*Kirk Hinrich could be a huge factor in the semifinal against Greece.*

nice photo caption. 



> The obvious solution is penetration and motion. A good sign: At the end of Thursday's practice, the U.S. was working on sets that included high-post handoffs and drive-and-kicks. The unit on the floor -- Hinrich, James, Brand, Anthony and Johnson -- may also be a preview of Friday's starting lineup against Greece.
> 
> If there is a change at point guard, from Paul to Hinrich (who is a better one-on-one defender), it might help against Greece's pro-style offense, which is built around plodding isolation plays that often lead to trips to the foul line.




the tournament is not on TV in japan. and brad miller and kirk aren't being MOBBED like they are back home. 

:biggrin: 



> • Not sure if it's obvious on TV, but no one cares about the world championships here. In the U.S., fans aren't watching because the games are on at dockworker's hours. Here they're not watching because they can't.
> 
> At 7:30 p.m. Wednesday in Japan, as the U.S. tipped off against Germany, you could turn on the TV here and see horse racing, one of two soccer games (Sanfrecce vs. Jubilo or Trinita vs. the Red Diamonds in the J. League) or one of two Japanese baseball games, the Giants vs. the Carp or the Marines vs. the Hawks. But no basketball.
> 
> *• One upside for the players is that they're not mobbed everywhere they go. Miller and Hinrich went to a baseball game -- baseball being the Japanese national pastime -- and no one recognized them.
> 
> Miller says the biggest hassle was the corridors -- so low that even the 6-foot-3 Hinrich had to duck to walk through them. As for the other Japanese pastime, Miller had this review: "I like the Kirin, but the Sapporo's kind of, you know, sour. Like the bitter beer face."*


----------



## Wynn

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> _first public comments from *Gilbert Arenas* since not making Team USA for Worlds:_
> 
> 
> *"I'm going to be the silent assassin this year," he said. "I can't wait to play the Suns and Portland. Against Portland, Nate McMillan, I'm going to try to score 100 in two games and against D'Antoni, I'm going to score 100 in two games. I'm going to try."*
> 
> --Gilbert Arenas
> 
> :eek8:
> 
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/30/AR2006083003244.html


Sounds like the "silence" of his assassination should have started a few minutes before the above interview. What a Jack! Does he really think USA will bring him back after these comments?


----------



## Ron Cey

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



> As for the other Japanese pastime, Miller had this review: "I like the Kirin, but the Sapporo's kind of, you know, sour. Like the bitter beer face."


Brad, I totally agree. Kirin is delicious.


----------



## Cyanobacteria

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



McBulls said:


> Obviously it was not a very good idea to invite more NBA players to team USA than were needed. Next time they should forgo the pleasure of having to cut players from the team. After all, the guys are not even being paid.



Somebody's going to get hurt eventually (knock on wood) so the long roster provides guys who have been in the system for a couple of years when the olympics come around, so I like it. If Arenas (or anybody else for that matter) doesn't like it he can stay home.

I think I remember the original Dream Team getting paid like 100k or something like that, which was such chump change for those guys that they all just donated the money back to USA bball. Has this changed? Interesting bit during one of the halftime spots (that I usually just ffwd through) about Coach K assisting on the original Dream Team, I had forgotten this. Man those guys wore their shorts high, even if they were baggy. Cameras followed Stockton around Barcelona undetected a la Kirk and Brad.

*Nerd alert* Here's the earthquake summary:
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/Quakes/ussbak.php#details


----------



## UMfan83

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mgolding said:


> Also, I was wondering what kind of coverage these world championships have been getting in the US. When the sports on the news, how far back in the cue is the story about Team USA


Definitely not getting the same coverage as baseball or even preseason football. In a 60 minute sportscenter, its probably between 10-20 minutes into the show.


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

I need to get to bed soon, I have my alarm set for 2:30, and I have school at 10 or something, I really don't know what time its at...gasp.


----------



## kirkisgod

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

I'm staying awake for the game and taking a quick nap afterwards before my class at 9. Go KIRKUSA!


----------



## kirkisgod

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Please blow out Greece early so I can go to sleep.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

I'm currently in the west coast, so I'm definitely watching this one!


----------



## UMfan83

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Kirk indeed in the starting 5.


----------



## UMfan83

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Wait, this is the first real action of the worlds I've gotten to see....that first possession...thats not their offense usually is it???


----------



## UMfan83

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Kirk for threeeeee...the USA D is looking pretty decent so far.


----------



## Dancon7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Too many shots from the Kirkmeister so far. Anthony and James driving the lane is this unit's best option.

Kirk just left for Paul. 9-6 USA 5 minutes left in the 1st quarter.


----------



## kulaz3000

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

14:19 to USA

5 seconds to go in the first quarter...


----------



## kulaz3000

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

make it.. 14:20 USA with the lead, end of first quarter.


----------



## UMfan83

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

USA had a 33-21 lead and are now trailing 43-38.

USA is getting scorched by the Sweetney lookalike down low. You'd think with the US's size and athleticism they'd be dominant with their bigs, but thats not the case. USA can't score against the zone and their perimeter shooters are taking ill advised shots and mostly missing. I dunno about this one...


----------



## kulaz3000

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

45:41 USA down in the half..

they need to regroup, Greece has been playing well the whole tournament, they are primed to upset the USA.. i guess the second half will see how much heart USA really has.


----------



## UMfan83

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

The Greeks won't miss...the USA is getting it handed to them.

LBJ has missed 5 straight FTs before finally hitting one. Maybe the third time is the charm and the US will actually add SHOOTERS to the roster next time. We can't hit a shot to save our lives because our shooters live and die on getting the foul call while driving to the hoop.

USA down 69-55 midway through the third


----------



## Ron Cey

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Granted, Greece is shooting lights out and isn't coming back to earth. But our effort is pathetic. No focus, no defensive intensity. 

It reminds me a lot of the Olympics. I woke up at 2:30 for this. 

Oh well. Its not over yet. Let's go fellas!


----------



## ViciousFlogging

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

now they're starting to panic and going 1-on-1, throwing wild passes, and still breaking down on defense almost every possession. Looking grim.


----------



## UMfan83

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Gonna take a miracle right now. If the USA loses this, they HAVE to win tomorrow to clinch an olympic spot right? I don't think if they could beat either Spain or Argentina right now...

And if they lose that, they must play next summer right?


----------



## ViciousFlogging

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

tough turn for Kirk. Hits a HUGE 3, then gets stuck having to take a foul on Greek Shaq, which the refs appear to be calling an intentional (2fts and the ball!). Brutal.


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

God this is so horrible.

43 seconds left.

It was a nice run for Team USA and I'm happy that they got to the FIBA Final Four ... looks like the Bronze medal game on Sunday against whoever comes up on the short end of the Spain/Argentina game.

Hinrich got the 3 and then just fouled out. 

Final -- 101-95.

Anyone else notice this seems like a home game for Greece? Look at all the Greek-language banners facing the cameras?

This is still a good team, miles better than the Larry Brown coached club ... but this was so terribly disappointing, and I bet they are disappointed ... USA will now have to qualify for the 2008 Olympics due to this loss (next summer in Venezuela).

What I watched of it ... so many things offensively went wrong, what could have gone differently? I suppose I could count the ways.


----------



## kulaz3000

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

its all over, they lose 101-95...


----------



## UMfan83

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

All well I am throwing all my rooting interest onto team Noc


----------



## TwinkieTowers

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Fran Fraschilla, as Anti-American as his color commentary has sounded this game, was right about the terrible pick-and-roll defense. Not to sound pro-Kirk, but his presence improved that defense so much against the P'nR. I'm surprised that coach K took him out for such long periods, because it was obvious that Kirk was the only one who knew how to defend the P'nR.


----------



## Ron Cey

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Completely unacceptable effort and execution. Almost no team play or communication on either end of the court. 

God damn.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but Melo is the only guy who looked focused the whole game, despite his ill advised shot at the end. Well, Dwight Howard too, but he was grossly underutilized.

Bulls Note: Hinrich bounced back well in the second half, but his decision making in the second quarter was awful. 

Back to bed for an hour.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

I wondered where that great full court defense went after the first quarter.

And Fran Fraschilla was the most obnoxious basketball color commentator I've ever heard. How many times does he have to remind us about the team playing 1-on-5 basketball?


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

well that really, really sucks.

and still i am *really proud* of the effort kirk gave to TEAM USA and since this is the bulls forum, YAY KIRK!!! how that was NOT a foul on him that last three where FATMAN knocked him to the floor...geez. 



oh well.

GO NOCIONI! Beat those Spaniards!


_ps. Bronze Medal game will be shown on ESPN2 saturday morning at 6:30 am ET. USA v. LOSER of Spain/Argentina_




i don't even think i can go back to sleep at this point.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



UMfan83 said:


> Gonna take a miracle right now. If the USA loses this, they HAVE to win tomorrow to clinch an olympic spot right? I don't think if they could beat either Spain or Argentina right now...
> 
> And if they lose that, they must play next summer right?


no, they have to play next summer regardless. only the gold medal would have gotten them out of playing in the qualifying tourney in venezuela.


----------



## Ron Cey

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



TwinkieTowers said:


> And Fran Fraschilla was the most obnoxious basketball color commentator I've ever heard. How many times does he have to remind us about the team playing 1-on-5 basketball?


Unfortunately, I'd have to agree with almost everything he said. Our guys, other than Hinrich and Paul, simply didn't pass it. One pass or no pass almost every possession.

There just wasn't much team play on either end of the court. Its simply not good or entertaining basketball. Frankly, it pisses me off that we are still playing that way. I simply don't understand.

And its not that I thought our guys had poor attitudes. Its just that the mentality and style of play is all wrong.


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



mizenkay said:


> ... and still i am *really proud* of the effort kirk gave to TEAM USA and since this is the bulls forum, YAY KIRK!!! how that was NOT a foul on him that last three where FATMAN knocked him to the floor...geez.


What mizenkay said (I cannot rep you anymore so consider this rep).

The selection of Hinrich, among others, was among the reasons I began following the team so closely. And this has been the best FIBA thread I've seen throughout bbb.net.

Disappointing upset ... but still, this is still a vast improvement over the previous Team USA.


----------



## narek

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Congratulations to all you people who got up and watched this live.

Next summer they should have Michael Redd in the lineup. The man doesn't miss much except in the fourth quarter, and he knows how to pass when his shot isn't open. And Chauncy Billups (Kobe can stay home, he won't be a huge factor in international games). 

Plus maybe a better offensive strategy.

Kirk was terrific. Heck, so was Chris Paul. 

Go Noch!


----------



## Diable

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

I sort of wonder if JJ Redick would have made this team if not for his back injury and the Magic not really wanting him to.He's not anywhere near the level of player of the guys that are on the roster,but he certainly would have provided something that we were severely lacking.

The important thing is to remember that this team was never constructed with winning the WC as the main objective.It's really about Beijing and trying to construct a team that is acclimated to the FIBA game before 2008.We could have put together a team with 12 veterans and whether we won or lost it would not have helped us with the bigger picture.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

USA/GREECE Box


you know, there's gonna be a lot of woulda, coulda, shoulda these next few days. not to mention the gloating from sheridan and mannix and corps. i think for the most part that *they should try and keep this roster intact*, maybe with a few tweaks. the whole point of FIBA and dominating international play is to win the TEAM game and to have TEAMS that are used to each other. playing together FOR YEARS and YEARS. if we sub in half a new roster, with kobe, redd, redick et al.. then i think it sort of defeats the purpose. i'm just saying. and i don't necessarily think kirk is the odd man out if there are adjustments. i think that he's earned his stay at least until next summer in venezuela.

you know, we can't even assume we'll win the bronze either. i mean to have to go up against spain (probably) or argentina (not likely) isn't going to be fun. it will say VOLUMES about TEAM USA how they come out and play the game tomorrow.


----------



## Showtyme

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*

Silver linings:

1. Encouraging even more talent to come and play when it counts. Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant...

2. Although this is definitely a team of great players from our league, they are all also EXTREMELY young. Chris Paul is a stunning point guard but he just won rookie of the year. The three co-captains are barely 22. LeBron has yet to ascend to really be the superstar that he is; Wade has yet to confirm his own superstar status. I'm talking about their games, not their attitudes.

3. Next summer, we'll have something to PLAY for. If we have our sights set on the Olympics, doesn't it make more sense to lose NOW than to win early, get lazier, then lose later? I agree with the sentiment that the same group of guys should come back, largely, with few changes. They should come back HUNGRY, dominate at FIBA Americas (although it won't be easy), and have some healthy fear in 2008. It does need to be THESE same guys, the guys that were handed a loss, so that they remember who it was that defeated them and come back to fight.

All in all, a huge disappointment, especially at the hands of Greece. How did Sofoklis look? Is he going to find a job in the NBA in the next two seasons?


----------



## BULLHITTER

*usa loses worlds to greece 101-95*

damnnn.....


----------



## kulaz3000

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



Diable said:


> The important thing is to remember that this team was never constructed with winning the WC as the main objective.It's really about Beijing and trying to construct a team that is acclimated to the FIBA game before 2008.We could have put together a team with 12 veterans and whether we won or lost it would not have helped us with the bigger picture.


i think to say that this teams only goal is to win in the olympics is a big cope out. we should have won this world championships also, this has got to take the wind out of the sails of the players, coaching staff and even the leagues reputation. 

i think the main problem is, international teams take this competitions, world championships and olympics seriously. they really take it to heart, and if you watched the game tonight, you can just tell by their body language, they desire it and want it more so much more than the americans. and it has nothing to do with the americans, or wanting to beat the usa team more than other teams, they just want to win. 

also, i think part of the problem with our players of the younger generation is the league coddles our players, tweaks rules to their benefits, treats them like prima donas and encourages indivdiualism... i don't know about anyone else, but im pretty guttered. quite frankly this is a disgrace to our league and im even more bitter that our player hinrich was involved in such a lose, a guy that plays his heart out. i hope this doesn't effect his confidence... 

no more excuses!! non of this, we were just preparing for the olympics business, they just didn't have the heart to win plain and simple. whats the point of having the talent when you the have the heart and desire to win? greece didn't have ONE nba player on their roster, not one!!! and they dominated by simply playing the pick and roll on us.. shameful. 

im done.. (trudges away)


----------



## Showtyme

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

Maybe Dwight Howard will be an even bigger deal, but I think we do need to address the talent in our frontcourt. Howard and Bosh are more than international competition can handle, but we don't have the style of team that really capitalizes on it. I think D-Howard will become that player in the next few years, but Bosh feels like more of a super-sub than a starter.

Brad Miller was a good choice, the right "international-style" choice, but we really need a Shaq out there to truly represent USA basketball. Unfortunately, USA basketball doesn't really have a Shaq.

They do have an Amare, and Amare + Dwight Howard would enable this team to be even more explosive inside. Not only explosive, but STRONG.

If USAB thinks that playing international-style means just trying to match shots from beyond the arc, I think they need to re-think it. If that's what they wanted, why not field a team of Ray Allen, Jason Terry, Mike James, Raja Bell, Chauncey Billups, Ben Gordon, Bruce Bowen, and Josh Howard? If you need size, put Brian Cook and Matt Bonner in as your C and PF.

Why not just get our team to do what they do best?


----------



## Bullsky

I hate to say it, but I knew we'd lose. Greece has been playing together for years and won the Euro Championship. They are exactly what international basketball is all about. Defense wins championships, and we played only one good quarter of solid defense. That's our downfall. To be honest, I doubt we'll get the bronze. Whichever team loses between ARG/ESP will WANT to win. I don't know if this team has that same want.


----------



## BG7

We need tough big men, and shooters.

We need to add Ben Gordon, Michael Redd, and Ray Allen, 2 of those 3 that want to come, we all know it'd be Gordon and Redd.

Tough bigmen, a frontcourt of Kaman, Howard, and Oden, no more of this weak crap.


----------



## BG7

The ****ing announcers didn't know who Chapu is, what ****ing idiots. Nocioni had that big stop on the defensive end, Argentina can win this.


----------



## BG7

USA vs. Argentina.


----------



## BG7

I figured Coach K wasn't the right coach for the team, his teams always lose in the big games, no matter how much better his team is. Someone like Scott Skiles should be made the coach, or Phil Jackson.


----------



## Showtyme

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

Spain won?! Crazy.

Well, at least we get to see a friendly Kirk vs. Noch matchup that we were all hoping for. Just not in the game we were hoping for.

It's been a tournament of upsets, eh.


----------



## ChiBron

I hope this US' loss showed it isn't just abt effort, but chemistry is just as important. People were ignorant enough to lump past failures('04 team especially) on lack of effort and thought since the current team _cares so much_, they're gonna win GOLD easy. BS! Effort for the '04 team like '06 was never the issue & this was obvious to anyone who actually watched the debacle in Athens. Make-up of the team and chemistry were the real holes.

Simply put MORE time is needed. A couple more shooters wouldn't hurt either. Bring in Kobe and Redd for Miller and Jamison. The big men need to be upgraded too. Bring back EVERYBODY else! Continuity is the key to gold. Look at the cohesiveness displayed by all the other good teams compared to us. These aren't the 90's where we can send an AS team and win by 30+ every night w/ infinitely superior skills and athleticism. Everybody can play now.


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



Showtyme said:


> Spain won?! Crazy.
> 
> Well, at least we get to see a friendly Kirk vs. Noch matchup that we were all hoping for. Just not in the game we were hoping for.
> 
> It's been a tournament of upsets, eh.


Nocioni missed what would have been the game winning shot.

And the Clippers have the rights to Sofa.


----------



## McBulls

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006*



sloth said:


> All the kids on the playground make fun of Sofa too.


Guess Sofa had the last laugh.


----------



## L.O.B

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

I can't wait to see Sofa go against the Big Baby in a few seasons. NBA or UFC


----------



## kukoc4ever

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

Iverson/Marbury/Larry Brown won the Bronze.

I wonder if this jibbier team USA can manage that.

Jib, jib, jib-er-rooooooooooo....


----------



## Hustle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

Well I'm disgusted. Why this team thinks it can jack up so many outside shots is way beyond me. I mean does this team notice they have major strength and athletism on their opponents, that was the teams strength. Shooting was there well known weakness yet they took over 40% of their shots beyond the arc the last 2 games. I put a little blame on coach K, this team did not play together on d or o nearly enough to be dominant.

In two year the core of the team will be a ton more solid, I have faith with shooters like Redd and Kobe the team will be significantly improved. Guys you I don't expect or want to see on that team, Miller, Jamison, and Johnson. I'm thinking Kirk is going to make it, by that time I don't expect Billups to be an upgrade.


----------



## DaBullz

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

Remember, folks, Defense Wins Championships.


----------



## Guest

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



kukoc4ever said:


> Iverson/Marbury/Larry Brown won the Bronze.
> 
> I wonder if this jibbier team USA can manage that.
> 
> Jib, jib, jib-er-rooooooooooo....


If only Team USA had the sense to have brought on Jamal Crawford and Eddy Curry, we'd be coasting to a gold medal.

What were they thinking?


----------



## kukoc4ever

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

Something really needs to be done about this.

Team USA has no business settling for anything less than gold.

Wholesale changes are in order.

We need to change how Team USA is constructed from the ground up.

Enough of these selfish players. Pass the ball! We need less selfish players... more Hinrichs and Battiers. 

Maybe we should just send the best college juniors and seniors that have no hope of playing professionally?

Let’s hope these yahoos can manage to at least bring home the bronze.

Even Iverson and Marbury were able to get USA the bronze.










Anyway, after removing the tounge from cheek, this is pretty dissapointing. I wonder if this team will catch the same amount of heat that the olympic group did. Even though the results will be the same (bronze) best case, I don't think they will.


----------



## neural_dream

Someone wisely mentioned *Scott Skiles*. I happened to watch him live when he was playing in Greece, maybe a decade ago, for a club called PAOK Salonika. He was excellent as a point guard, but proved even better as a coach, when he was asked to be at the same time coach and player, after the team lost their normal coach. He was amazing. When his contract ended as a player he continued as a coach, achieving incredible things with PAOK of that era, although his team was consisted of (at most) mediocre European and American players. I was very happy when I saw him hired in the NBA the following year.

I googled a little bit for that little story and found this from wikipedia: ... Still struggling with injury himself, increasingly at odds with his coach, and fighting a custody battle in the U.S. for his two children, Scott asked to be released from his contract. Instead, President Lakis Alexopoulos fired Gomez and offered Skiles the job. Despite lacking three of their top players due to injury, Skiles led PAOK to a winning record as coach in the remainder of the '96-'97 season, and an unexpected 3rd place finish in the league tournament....


He was great as a coach in Europe (even without having any kind of coaching experience before) and he has utilised quite well players like Nocioni and Hinrich, with the first being born for and the second being pretty good at FIBA-style basketball.

=> would be my choice for coach at the Olympics.


----------



## Hustle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

:clap: 
Coach K did not bring enough team concept to this team especially on defense, seriously hate him or love him Skiles would have done a better job, no way would he have put up with having pretty much zero team philosophy. Almost 100% of the time team USA played like an allstar team with very little evidence of having an offensive game plan or defensive schemes.




> "They beat us up all night with that pick and roll," said Dwyane Wade. "They only ran but one play all night and we couldn't do anything to stop it. I just wish we had maybe changed up our defense, at least tied something different during the game. Maybe a zone or something. -Houston Chronicle


----------



## GB

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

The Greek statements are interesting:



> ''Big players play big games,'' said guard Theodoros Papaloukas, the MVP of the European final who had 12 assists Friday.





> ''Basketball is not just about dribbling and shooting,'' said Greece coach Panagiotis Yannakis...


Hey...the worst thing they can do now is scrap the plan and start over again. Overcoming setbacks are a big part of getting and staying on top.

But if 3 point shooting was the problem, then maybe JC...nah.


----------



## Ron Cey

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



> Something really needs to be done about this.
> 
> Team USA has no business settling for anything less than gold.
> 
> Wholesale changes are in order.


I agree with that. 



> We need to change how Team USA is constructed from the ground up.


I think its moving in the right direction.



> Enough of these selfish players. Pass the ball! We need less selfish players... more Hinrichs and Battiers.


I couldn't agree with that more. In this loss, there was horrible ball movement and terrible communication on defense. The more Hinrich/Battier/Paul types, the better, so as to avoid these things happening to such an extent. 

Of course, the team shouldn't abandon the stars altogether, but I think the balance is still off. 



> Maybe we should just send the best college juniors and seniors that have no hope of playing professionally?


I wouldn't go that far. 



> Let’s hope these yahoos can manage to at least bring home the bronze.


I'm not going to insult this team since it wasn't clouded with all the embarrassing attitude disputes and coach-hating as the last team, but they definitely came out with poor focus and fundamental play today as I described in my earlier posts in the thread. It was most certainly a non-jibby game from a focus and fundamentals perspective.

They deserved to lose. 



> Even Iverson and Marbury were able to get USA the bronze.


True, but in all fairness, that team lost multiple games and eeked out several of their wins. Indeed, they went 5-3 in the Olympics (including a 20 point whack from Puerto Rico) which - despite the format that still yielded a Bronze - actually tied them for the *5th worst record* of all the teams there. 

In other words, though *today's play* reminded me of the flaws of the 2004 team, the general comparison is horse crap. 

This team - to date - can be described as having had an off day and suffering a solitary upset in the midst of a series of 20+ point routs. Argentina suffered a similar fate.

But I'm glad you have found something comforting in the loss, K4E.


----------



## kukoc4ever

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



Ron Cey said:


> I think its moving in the right direction.


Not if we don't win the bronze. Even then its wheel spinning. 

This group certainly is a more homogenized package.

No medal < medal. 

You can get excited about knocking down those preliminary games if you want to. The medals are what is important.

If we could somehow clone Kirk Hinrich and Shane Battier... and find the big man equivalent of those two and clone him as well... perhaps that will bring the gold back to the USA. Or at least the bronze. Maybe.


----------



## T.Shock

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

Another tournament, another disappointment. This is the problem with the USA Basketball team, they are all their teams respective stars. Nobody seemed to want to pass the ball. Hence the Greek comment "Basketball is more than dribbling and shooting". No defense, no idea of how to set a screen. The Greeks shot 63 percent for God's sake. Before the all-star team worked fine because we simply had more talent and know-how than every other country in the world (plus guys like Jordan, Stockton, Bird, Magic actually knew how to play basketball). Face it, USA Basketball won't grab a gold medal until a)top prospects in high school and college spend more than one year at State U and learn how to play the game and b)they establish a team with a bunch of guys who don't mind passing the ball to each other. LeBron and Carmelo have that problem in the NBA, why wouldn't they have it now.


----------



## Ron Cey

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



kukoc4ever said:


> If we could somehow clone Kirk Hinrich and Shane Battier... and find the big man equivalent of those two and clone him as well... perhaps that will bring the gold back to the USA. Or at least the bronze. Maybe.


Damn straight. I kinda think Dwight Howard fits the bill but has been underutilized. Definitely today, anyway. 

I guess I don't really understand why you are being sarcastic about Battier and Hinrich. Its important to note that for all these jabs at jib you feel are appropriate in the wake of this defeat, despite our still superior "talent" we were beaten by a vastly inferior team from a physical "NBA talent" perspective. 

Twas jib that took the day and it can't be debated otherwise given the gross disparity in talent. The loss strengthens the argument that we haven't done enough to increase our fundamental team play, focus and effort.


----------



## Ron Cey

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



T.Shock said:


> Another tournament, another disappointment. This is the problem with the USA Basketball team, they are all their teams respective stars. Nobody seemed to want to pass the ball. Hence the Greek comment "Basketball is more than dribbling and shooting". No defense, no idea of how to set a screen. The Greeks shot 63 percent for God's sake. Before the all-star team worked fine because we simply had more talent and know-how than every other country in the world (plus guys like Jordan, Stockton, Bird, Magic actually knew how to play basketball). Face it, USA Basketball won't grab a gold medal until a)top prospects in high school and college spend more than one year at State U and learn how to play the game and b)they establish a team with a bunch of guys who don't mind passing the ball to each other. LeBron and Carmelo have that problem in the NBA, why wouldn't they have it now.


Great post. I couldn't agree more.


----------



## GB

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

I like Abbotts take on this loss:

>>They're the reigning European champions, and this is the biggest event of their basketball lives, for which they have been practicing together as a team for a decade. And they're big, well-coached, and got really hot.

For us? This is an off-season amusement, after a 100+ game season, and mostly something where everyone's going to get REALLY pissed if anyone gets hurt.

So, yeah, it can happen.<<


----------



## kukoc4ever

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



Ron Cey said:


> Twas jib that took the day and it can't be debated otherwise given the gross disparity in talent. The loss strengthens the argument that we haven't done enough to increase our fundamental team play, focus and effort.



I think it has a lot more to do with style of play.

That team does not beat Team USA in a NBA rules game with NBA refs, IMO.

2 of our 3 "big 3" make their money taking it to the hole in the NBA. That type of game does not help you much in these international contests. Its just a different game.


----------



## kukoc4ever

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



Ron Cey said:


> I guess I don't really understand why you are being sarcastic about Battier and Hinrich. Its important to note that for all these jabs at jib you feel are appropriate in the wake of this defeat, despite our still superior "talent" we were beaten by a vastly inferior team from a physical "NBA talent" perspective.


The whole reasoning behind setting up the Dream Team to begin with was that the college all-American Kirk and Shane types could not get the job done. Granted, Kirk and Shane are four years older now, but the talent level is about the same.


----------



## GB

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

Could the Hawks have beaten team Greece?


----------



## thebizkit69u

I havent posted in a few months, but this has gotten me sick. 

I dont want to hear any excuses about how the world has caught up to the Americans in Basketball, thats like saying the Americans have caught up to the Brazilians in Soccer. This just further proves that today's NBA player is not compleate and not up to par with the talent from the 90's. KING JAMES the greatest thing to happen to the NBA since Jordan (or so says everyone in the Media) did not take this team on his back like MJ would, Heck even Reggie Miller would. 

Its sad to know that the United States puts together a team full of allstars and a team that if you put all the contracts together of the Coaches and Players is probably a half a billion dollar team , loses to a greek team that has 0 NBA players! I dont want to hear excuses that all these teams have been playing together for years and thats why they are better then us, you put a team together tomorow of a young MJ, Malone, Stockton, Pip, etc and they still blow out every team in this WBC by 30. Can you even imagine how hard of a time Manu and Noc would have trying to Guard MJ and Pip?

There are no excuses, This is just a team full of pampered babies who get everything they want and yet cant shoot a 3 point shot.


----------



## MikeDC

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

I'm not seeing the "bad jib" argument here, except insofar as we might say that anytime a team plays ****ty defense it's automatically a display of poor jib.

But then we're just substituting terms. "bad defense" for "bad jib".

Attitude had nothing to do with this loss that I can tell. Offensively, they didn't seem a lot different. Their point, shot, assist, and to totals, for example, were about the same as they were against the other better teams we've played (like Italy and Slovenia). They played well enough to win offensively, and not much different than how they did before.

So the difference is in the defense. And it seems unlikely to me that the team remained focused and team-oriented on offense but simply stopped playing that way on defense. Rather, I think they tried hard and just got beat. It happens. Perhaps they didn't defend as well as in the past, but just from watching basketball we ought to know that even the best teams can't always shut down other teams. It's not that anything was systematically lacking in our team, it's just that sometimes the other team does something different, wins a few matchups, or hits a few extra shots just based on probabilities. It happens.

It also shouldn't be a huge shock that our superior talent (and I do think it's superior) isn't fully effective in the face of teams that have significantly more experience and continuity, and with a set of rules that diminishes the relative advantage of talent. 

We played a top notch team and we lost. It's not something anyone should be shocked about. I'm not questioning anything. I think fundamentally the approach we have is pretty sound. Our kids are still young and they'll continue to play together for the next several years. That's a major step in the right direction, and I think we've still got as good a chance as anyone over that time period.


----------



## kirkisgod

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

What I find sad is that with all the talent in the United States we could not get a big man who is a post scoring threat to play. Granted we had Howard rebounding and dunking everything, but you need to be able to feed the ball into the post against a zone and we didnt. In a way its like the Bulls. Perimeter oriented.


----------



## Ron Cey

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



kukoc4ever said:


> The whole reasoning behind setting up the Dream Team to begin with was that the college all-American Kirk and Shane types could not get the job done. Granted, Kirk and Shane are four years older now, but the talent level is about the same.


Right. And last time we tried it without "Kirk and Shane types" we got creamed by Puerto Rico, lost 3 games, finished tied for the 5th worst record at the Olympics, and witnessed in-fighting based on selfishness that embarrassed USA Basketball on an international stage. 

Times change. *We need a team*, and we still don't have one. We didn't have one today, at least. 

Talent alone isn't going to get it done anymore. 3 consecutive international competitions in a row 
proves it. 

I'm not suggesting we substitute Eric Williams for LeBron James, but we need more balance. When you watch a re-airing of the game, I suspect you'd be hard pressed not to agree.


----------



## McBulls

thebizkit69u said:


> I havent posted in a few months, but this has gotten me sick.
> 
> I dont want to hear any excuses about how the world has caught up to the Americans in Basketball, thats like saying the Americans have caught up to the Brazilians in Soccer. This just further proves that today's NBA player is not compleate and not up to par with the talent from the 90's. KING JAMES the greatest thing to happen to the NBA since Jordan (or so says everyone in the Media) did not take this team on his back like MJ would, Heck even Reggie Miller would.
> 
> Its sad to know that the United States puts together a team full of allstars and a team that if you put all the contracts together of the Coaches and Players is probably a half a billion dollar team , loses to a greek team that has 0 NBA players! I dont want to hear excuses that all these teams have been playing together for years and thats why they are better then us, you put a team together tomorow of a young MJ, Malone, Stockton, Pip, etc and they still blow out every team in this WBC by 30. Can you even imagine how hard of a time Manu and Noc would have trying to Guard MJ and Pip?
> 
> There are no excuses, This is just a team full of pampered babies who get everything they want and yet cant shoot a 3 point shot.


The hard truth is that LBJ and Wade and others on the USA team are not very good outside shooters. On top of that they don't consistently stay with their man on defense. 

A good zone defense can make it very hard to feed post players. So hard, you'd better have a few guys who can pass the ball well on the perimeter and hit the open outside J from the weak side when it's available. It also takes patience that NBA allstars are bred not to have.

Perhaps it was no accident that Nocioni led the NBA in 3 point shooting for a while last year. The key is to be able to knock down the shot after working hard to get yourself or your teammates an open look.

"There's more to basketball than dribbling and shooting ..." Yeah, but do those things show up in the career stat sheet at contract time?


----------



## MikeDC

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



thebizkit69u said:


> I havent posted in a few months, but this has gotten me sick.
> 
> I dont want to hear any excuses about how the world has caught up to the Americans in Basketball, thats like saying the Americans have caught up to the Brazilians in Soccer.


Perhaps with sufficient changes to the rules to hamper the Brazilians' advantages though, as well as some experience and improvement on our part, we might be able to beat them now and again.



> This just further proves that today's NBA player is not compleate and not up to par with the talent from the 90's. KING JAMES the greatest thing to happen to the NBA since Jordan (or so says everyone in the Media) did not take this team on his back like MJ would, Heck even Reggie Miller would.


MJ in the 1990s was in his late 20s with a huge amount of experience and improvement under his belt. Lebron is 21. I agree it's wrong to say James is on par with MJ in his prime, but it's an unfair comparison in the first place.



> Its sad to know that the United States puts together a team full of allstars and a team that if you put all the contracts together of the Coaches and Players is probably a half a billion dollar team , loses to a greek team that has 0 NBA players! I dont want to hear excuses that all these teams have been playing together for years and thats why they are better then us, you put a team together tomorow of a young MJ, Malone, Stockton, Pip, etc and they still blow out every team in this WBC by 30. Can you even imagine how hard of a time Manu and Noc would have trying to Guard MJ and Pip?


Well, I don't imagine they'd do any worse than most of the NBA players who guarded MJ and Pip. Honestly, they'd probably be well above the average.



> There are no excuses, This is just a team full of pampered babies who get everything they want and yet cant shoot a 3 point shot.


I suggest we recruit our next world team from prison leagues

Maybe we could hunt down Lee Benson and quickly add him to this roster before the next game. :clown:


----------



## Ron Cey

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



> I'm not seeing the "bad jib" argument here, except insofar as we might say that anytime a team plays ****ty defense it's automatically a display of poor jib.


Did someone make that argument? Because I don't see it either. This team has a good attitude as far as I've been able to tell. 

They just weren't cohesive on either end of the court. 



> But then we're just substituting terms. "bad defense" for "bad jib".
> 
> Attitude had nothing to do with this loss that I can tell. Offensively, they didn't seem a lot different.


If thats true, then their offense has been no-ball-movement-and-a-shot, every game. I haven't seen every game, so I don't know. 



> Their point, shot, assist, and to totals, for example, were about the same as they were against the other better teams we've played (like Italy and Slovenia). They played well enough to win offensively, and not much different than how they did before.


They did not play well enough to win offensively because they failed to move the ball to get good open shots. They could never capitalize or put a significant run together. There was no unity. 



> So the difference is in the defense.


The defense was terrible. You are correct. 



> And it seems *unlikely to me that the team remained focused and team-oriented on offense but simply stopped playing that way on defense*.


I agree in theory, but it doesn't apply to what happened today. Thing is, the team wasn't "focused and team oriented of offense". No one who watched that game - which you didn't yet - would describe it as you did. 



> Rather, I think they tried hard and just got beat. It happens. Perhaps they didn't defend as well as in the past, but just from watching basketball we ought to know that even the best teams can't always shut down other teams.


Within the system they employ, they did try. 



> It's not that anything was systematically lacking in our team, it's just that sometimes the other team does something different, wins a few matchups, or hits a few extra shots just based on probabilities. It happens.


But there is something wrong with the system. It lacks cohesion. Or it did today, anyway. Perhaps it was an anomaly. 



> It also shouldn't be a huge shock that our superior talent (and I do think it's superior) isn't fully effective in the face of teams that have significantly more experience and continuity, and with a set of rules that diminishes the relative advantage of talent.
> 
> We played a top notch team and we lost. It's not something anyone should be shocked about. I'm not questioning anything. I think fundamentally the approach we have is pretty sound. Our kids are still young and they'll continue to play together for the next several years. That's a major step in the right direction, and I think we've still got as good a chance as anyone over that time period.


I agree with you 100% on this. But there is a fundamental flaw in the style of play. Its not team basketball - on either end of the floor. Perhaps it just takes more time together to establish this. If it becomes established, then I'm fine with the roster. But I think a couple of more "Shane and Kirk types" to shift the balance a bit would really help achieve this more team oriented style of play while retaining a significant numbe of "superstars" to do their thing.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

POSTGAME comments from the coaches, players on the loss.

thought that the comment by jerry c. about the guards being inexperienced was interesting considering how much smoke was being blown up chris paul's *** at the beginning of this whole thing. of course they're inexperienced in international play, man. that's why they play the games.

i really hope they don't go ripping it apart and let this team (like i said in my post earlier) come together and stay together. that's what will ultimately win it for the USA. and yes, i do believe that by 2008 we will be seeing a much more cohesive team for the USA. and someone tell michael redd's wife that we really missed her husbands 3 point shooting. hope the honeymoon was fun.

meanwhile, i did fall back asleep and missed most of Spain/Argentina. am about to go watch now. i guess Pau Gasol got injured pretty badly (ankle) and may not play in the final?


----------



## BeZerker2008

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

That US Game was disappointing. Ok, so they didn't have the outside jump shot, but damn missing that many free throws? If they would have made close to the majority of them they would have at least stayed in the game alot closer than they were. The other thing that got me upset was: That Damn pick & roll! they could not defend it at all. Wade, bron and others were getting beat off the dribble it seemed almost all game. Why wasn't Brad Miller in the game? Brad has a good outside shot, can shoot the 3 on occasion and can flop very well, something they could have used against that fat Tractor traylor lookalike. 

All together though ball movement was bad, for the whole game it looked like they couldn't get a rythm at all. There was also bad mental decisions, kirk and not shooting that open 3, fouling bad shooters who were great FT shooters, just overall a bad game for team USA.


----------



## ScottMay

Here's Chris Sheridan's reaction:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&id=2568555

miz, I hope you weren't one of the folks sending "dismissive, nasty and uncomprehending e-mails" that made him feel "physically ill" when it came time to check his in-box!

Anyway, he's in full "sky is falling" mode. I wish the US would have won, too, but this loss (or the ones that came before it) doesn't make me think the US doesn't have far and away the best basketball players in the world. 

The FIBA rules are significantly different than the NBA/NCAA rules. Not only do the rules take away from our players' advantages, but we're the only team in the tourney whose players weren't raised on FIBA rules. 

An NBA player's season can exceed 100 games, easily, with preseason and playoff games added. The professional leagues elsewhere go 40-50, tops. So their guys are a lot fresher. Due to the huge investments their NBA teams have made in them, our NBA guys probably aren't as emotionally "into it" as their opponents are. Even the foreign teams with an NBA player or two (actually, it's pretty telling to view Argentina's exit in the context of their having so many NBA players).

Maybe that all seems like excuse-making. So be it. I do think this team can win in 2008, so long as a few extra key guys (Kobe, especially, and maybe Stoudemire and Redd/Ray Allen) show up. A couple of other ideas (and for all I know, these could be in place already; I just haven't heard about it).

--Just so there's no nagging "I better not dive for that loose ball; my NBA coach/GM would KILL me" thought in the back of any USA player's mind, arrange for an umbrella insurance policy to cover their contracts and not have it cost their NBA team a dime (right now, they typically have to pay 20% in the event of a career-ending injury). The coverage could be paid for by the NBA/NCAA and any other domestic organization with ties to USA Basketball. Make it clear that the job is to come home with gold medals.

--Hire a prominent, respectable, accomplished coach to scout the international game, break down tape, devise offensive and defensive plays (like defending a simple pick-and-roll, wtf!), and so forth during the hiatus between now and the preliminaries for the Tournament of the Americas and the 2008 Olympics. Only it's a full-time job -- that's all this guy and his staff would do, and the coach would be one of the top 2 assistants to Coach K when the games are actually played. I don't have any recommendations, but the upshot is that it's someone who is out of work right now and who would get paid a decent salary ($250k+) to do only this job for the next two years.

If all else fails and we do poorly at the next Olympics (or, heaven forbid, the Tourney of the Americas), my break-it-down and start-all-over-again idea is to have a core of 12 players who aren't NBA players -- these would be undrafted USA college players who typically end up overseas. Their full-time job would be being Team USA. They'd play and practice together non-stop, all the time. When it came time for tournaments, you add in only 2-3 NBA superstars. The idea is that the core learns how to play well together and to play the international game, and the superstars give the squad the firepower it needs to get over the top.


----------



## djsmokyc

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

I've read a lot of comments by players that the FIBA ball was a lot different and they had t=rouble adjusting to it. I would guess that is one of the major causes of the terrible free throw percentage by the U.S.

I think the FIBA ball is made of synthetic leather like the new NBA ball would be. Do you think a year of playing with the new NBA ball will help the USA team for the next international tournament?


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



> miz, I hope you weren't one of the folks sending "dismissive, nasty and uncomprehending e-mails" that made him feel "physically ill" when it came time to check his in-box!


well, um, yeah, i did. and i don't really care if it upset his tummy. he made the coverage of team usa about himself. i think he's a hack.


----------



## narek

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



mizenkay said:


> [
> meanwhile, i did fall back asleep and missed most of Spain/Argentina. am about to go watch now. i guess Pau Gasol got injured pretty badly (ankle) and may not play in the final?


I saw it, and it didn't look that bad, but he didn't come back in at the end of the game. I haven't heard any more news on this all day ('cause I haven't been listening to anything).


----------



## narek

ScottMay said:


> If all else fails and we do poorly at the next Olympics (or, heaven forbid, the Tourney of the Americas), my break-it-down and start-all-over-again idea is to have a core of 12 players who aren't NBA players -- these would be undrafted USA college players who typically end up overseas. Their full-time job would be being Team USA. They'd play and practice together non-stop, all the time. When it came time for tournaments, you add in only 2-3 NBA superstars. The idea is that the core learns how to play well together and to play the international game, and the superstars give the squad the firepower it needs to get over the top.


I like this. Playing together a while makes a difference. Heck, it would probably have made a difference if we had a couple of players who were current players with each other.


----------



## ScottMay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



mizenkay said:


> well, um, yeah, i did. and i don't really care if it upset his tummy. he made the coverage of team usa about himself. i think he's a hack.


If he's a self-absorbed hack, he's a pretty prophetic one. I guess he just got lucky.

(And he was wrong about the US winning the silver, I 'spose.)


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



ScottMay said:


> If he's a self-absorbed hack, he's a pretty prophetic one. I guess he just got lucky.
> 
> (And he was wrong about the US winning the silver, I 'spose.)


i guess so.

:clown:

i mean do we really need to hear for 3 paragraphs in his "write-up" how he got ill at all his emails. boo freakin' hoo. suck it up. he did the same thing in his chat. 

i'm glad he feels so vindicated. 

lot's of other guys (dwyer, burns, kerr and a few others at SI) covering the team were able to discuss the weaknesses and the possibility of not winning the gold etc. of Team USA _without making it about themselves. _


----------



## Bullsky

I agree with what everyone said about this result being disgraceful. The United States should not lose to Greece. I don't mean to diss Greece, but we have a long historic past of being the best.

The whole "NBA/NCAA" Rules are different than FIBA argument really bothers me. To me, its just another excuse.

Chemistry was this teams biggest flaw just ahead of defense. I think USA Basketball should select 15 players every summer and tour Europe while playing teams from Europe.

You want to know why the USA Women win EVERYTHING? Because they have a solid core and have played together. Even the younger players like Taurasi, Bird, Parker and Beard have all played internationally. The men don't seem to do that as much as they get older. Like someone brought up to me a few days ago, LeBron said most of his reason for playing for the team was to further his shoe company or whatever in Asia. Pathetic.

To be honest, if anyone thought this team would win the gold, I'd have to check your logic. This team was not going to win gold. Greece and Spain, tops in Europe, are levels ahead of us. Argentina isnt as ahead of us, but now with a one point loss, they will NEED to win. Not want, NEED. I'd be shocked if we won the bronze. Shocked.

Oh, and I agree about Skiles. Sounds like a great idea to me. I dont know... I just felt like Coach K didn't do anything. When we won, our players beat the other team. He never outcoached a team.


----------



## Hustle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



Bullsky said:


> Oh, and I agree about Skiles. Sounds like a great idea to me. I dont know... I just felt like Coach K didn't do anything. When we won, our players beat the other team. He never outcoached a team.


I justed watched the game for a second time, and for anyone saying we need to keep as many players together as possible to build chemistry, I don't see what we are building on. The US barely used so much as a pick and roll on offense, and on d it was every man for himself. I don't see what Coach K was doing besides making substitutions, and I am not one to question professional coaches, even Larry Brown last year.


----------



## Machinehead

I ( and my evil twin Sausage King of Chicago ) must be the only one that is honest enough to call a spade a bloody shovel and state that Kirk Hinrich sucked arse last night 

Absolute shocker ..probably the worst game of basketball I've seen him play last night

Poor decisions ..blown assignments on Spindoulos ( or whatever the name of the Greek guard is that has just been signed by the Rox ) 

There was like 5 or 6 plays in a row toward the end of the first half ( before they went on that first burst ) where he jumped /travelled , shot a couple of really bad shots which were just horrendous shot selection , blew a couple of assignments by not going over the top of the pick ...Blah!

I think Kirk's f'ups gave the Greek team impetus to get a run on Team USA 

And then he comes out in the 2nd half , still stinks it up with sub par plays with dumb turnovers ( like the shocking oop to Lebron ) and he didn't put the breaks on his counterpart who got the Fatman going who really put USA back on the heels

Coach K deserves considerable blame as rather than vary the defensive scheme and play with a more controlled rotation he stuck with the same crap that wasn't working and yanking everyone around like a freaking yo yo trying to find combinations. Pretty hard to find combinations when you have got 90 second substitutions.

Battier was as useless as tits on a Bull ..that blown offensive board put back where he got two hands to it was just a disgrace 

The Good :

Dwight Howard is a freaking animal 
James was underplayed ..but Anthony was hot 
Joe Johnson played well and I think has been unfairly dissed in this thread 
Wade and Brand toiled well and were always dangerous when they had their chances 

I put the loss down to 

1. Lack of continuity in playing together still not there 
2. Coach K coached a pathetic game and didn't make the right adjustments 
3. Kirk Hinrich in a right royal F ' up of a game gave that team and the driver ( Spindoulos ) impetus / momentum that sat us back on our arse 

Yup ..sorry miz but Kirk really needs to be held substantially accountable for this loss IMO


----------



## Sixerfanforlife

What do you expect, College coaches are a drop off from NBA coaches.


----------



## thebizkit69u

Shooters Shooters Shooters! Thats all Team USA needs to win the Gold in the olympics. This team does not need LBJ, Wade or even Carmelo, you put a team out there full of great jumpshooters and 2 very good big men then you win it all the time. 

Morrison, Redick , Rip Hamilton, Ben Gordon and Kyle Korver all need to be brought to compete for a spot on the USA Squad. You need high percentage 3 point shooters and FT shooters. Rip Hamilton for sure must be on our team for the Olympics. 

Dwight Howard is a beast and Is a lock to be on this team for EVER! 
Brad Miller was not used alot and Chris Bosh just dint looked interested in this team. 
Stop falling inlove with the big names, fall inlove with guys who can fit the system.
Dont be afraid to use guys who some people might question, For example Mike James is not a big name but hes a 20 ppg guy who shot 44% from the 3 and is a 83 % FT shooter, not amazing but he fits the FIBA type of player that is sucessfull.


----------



## MikeDC

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



Ron Cey said:


> I agree with you 100% on this. But there is a fundamental flaw in the style of play. Its not team basketball - on either end of the floor. Perhaps it just takes more time together to establish this. If it becomes established, then I'm fine with the roster. But I think a couple of more "Shane and Kirk types" to shift the balance a bit would really help achieve this more team oriented style of play while retaining a significant numbe of "superstars" to do their thing.


If anything, they'll be going in the other direction assuming Kobe and Amare get healthy. I think these guys deserve a break and some understanding of the fact that 1) they were just thrown together and young 2) their opponents aren't the chumps many seem to think they are and 3) the rules downplay their comparative advantage in talent.


----------



## DaBullz

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

I fully expect Sausage King of Chicago to review the game and tell us Kirk played awesome.


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

I'm getting tired of this, oh its okay that we lost, its all for 2008. If we can't win the worlds, what makes people think this team can win in 2008? We haven't won one of these things in 6 years, we are just one of the pack now, we are no longer the favorites imo. I don't think we'll win the olympics in 2006, Coach K is an inept coach. Were just going to see the same thing that we see at Duke every year, going into the commercial, he has the overwhelmingly best team, and ends up losing year after year. There was not anything resembling an offensive set all tournament. The just played like it was a pickup game, an allstar game, they need to run and learn plays. I hate the idea that you can't build a team in three years, what are all these NBA players mentally retarted? In highschool sports, we have about 2 weeks of practice before our first games, and we become a cohesive team in that time, and learn all sorts of offensive sets and defenses, are you telling me that in 3 weeks NBA players can't learn their teammates tendencies, strengths, weaknesses, learn and offense, and learn defense? The whole idea about how we'll be more cohesive in 2008 just sounds like a false sense of hope. If we ain't number one, we ain't nothing in this thing. We need a coach who holds the players accountable for losing, not baby them, be hard on them, let them know they failed, so they come back with a vengeance, since outside of Carmelo, noone really seemed to be playing with a chip on their shoulder, that extra motivation, with it. We need a coach that teaches them an offense, and has them run it, a coach that makes game time adjustments, not just a coach that just makes substitutions every other minute. I have little confidence that Team USA will get gold in 2008. I wouldn't be suprised if they won it, but I wouldn't be suprised if they lost it. Its ridiculous, that team out there that we have, should easily stroll to the gold, but it doesn't, and I have to blame it first on the coaches for not running an offense, and teaching simple things on defense, and secondly, the players, for not having a fire lit under their asses. Team USA was embarassed once again in basketball, hopefully this all ends in 2008, I am ****ing tired of losing, we are like the ****ing LA Clippers of International basketball now, we ain't winning ****.


----------



## The 6ft Hurdle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

We lost because our players aren't used to fighting to win in international competition. And I'm not talking about a Skiles-Pax-Kirk-esque fighting-to-survive-to-just-be-in-the-game mindset either. 

The only way we've won in international competition has been through blowouts or "surviving"/holding on to win games. We "expect" to blow by teams off of sheer talent and by using the tactics that worked in one context and try to apply it to another. In blowouts, all we do is make plays and soon enough they become mere exhibition games. 

For example, this US team thought that it could creep back into the game by forcing turnovers. Well, we only forced 10 turnovers and only got 7 points off of that. Our team seems to be lodged in this playmaking mindset not because they want to show off their "skillz," but primarily because with their level of talent (or perceived talent) it's much more cost-efficient.


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

Things will hopefully be different in 2008, I think they should just make Kobe the captain from day 1. He is a player with probaly the best passion to win in the entire NBA, and he is going to be the only one with a huge media bullseye come the olympics, like look at this year, there isn't any scapegoat, well Kobe will be the scapegoat that all the **** just gets piled on if Team USA loses in 2008, he had the most to lose, and he is mentally tougher than any other player in the United States.


----------



## The 6ft Hurdle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



sloth said:


> Things will hopefully be different in 2008, I think they should just make Kobe the captain from day 1. He is a player with probaly the best passion to win in the entire NBA, and he is going to be the only one with a huge media bullseye come the olympics, like look at this year, there isn't any scapegoat, well Kobe will be the scapegoat that all the **** just gets piled on if Team USA loses in 2008, he had the most to lose, and he is mentally tougher than any other player in the United States.


It won't be long before someone posts this so let me do it. 

We would go on a tear with Kobe.


----------



## Hustle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

There was a poll on ESPN.com and one of the questions was would Kobe have helped this team, when I voted only 42% of the people had voted yes. That is ludacris, he is better and more experienced than any of the tricaptains right now. Moreover he can shoot and play defense, skill sets this team is severly lacking.


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

So what's done is done and can't be undone. I'm a little less depressed about it now (and not because I'm in a foul mood), but NOW a most important question has to be asked:

Are you torn about the fact that Hinrich and Nocioni -- well-regarded teammates on a well regarded NBA team in the United States -- are on opposing teams vying for one bronze medal?

--------------------------

OTHER THOUGHTS:

I like Gilbert Arenas a great deal but I kind of wish he had kept his mouth shut. Obviously he's hurt (and not his groin) about being cut from the team, but my opinion only, I believe those comments might have hurt himself for the rest of his three year commitment.

They cut Adam Morrison from the team -- no surprise, he's a rook fresh out of college, he's talented but NOT defensive minded, in some ways I personally believe his liberalism clashed hard with Jerry Colangelo's conservatism, although that's neither here nor there ... but Lord, would it have been a little different if he had been out there canning some buckets? In fact Scoop Jackson, FWIW, brought this up on Page 2 @ espn.com the other day:



> Love Kirk Hinrich, but he's not going to save you. Love Bron, but he's not going to save you. Love Melo, but he can't drop 35 every game and he can't trade 3s with the world. See, there's a difference between being able the shoot 3s and having range. Bird had range, Mullin had range, Miller (aka: Reggie) had range. The second any one of them stepped across halfcourt ... Yung Joc, it was goin' down. This team is void of long-range specialists. And when you are going up against teams that specialize in dropping bombs from beyond the 3-point line you have to counter their attack with something ... or someone. Adam Morrison was that someone. Even though he didn't have any international or NBA experience, he was 6-foot-8 with range. Silly range. Scorer's-table range. Oscar Schmidt range. And at some point, scoring two points for every three points that Spain, Greece, France, Turkey or Dirk is scoring is not going to add up. Oh, my bad, yes it will -- it'll add up to an L.


And Bruce Bowen, also cut, might be a grandpa by NBA standards, but would it have been beneficial to have him around for even more defense?

Oh well ifs and buts are like candy and nuts ... as far as international competition is concerned, now there is the task of beating Argentina for that bronze medal, and then looking to next summer I guess.

More thoughts later. I cannot be home for the bronze round but I am going to set a recorder.


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

See, we didn't have any three point specialists, exactly why we need Gordon on the team in 08. Although Hinrich was hitting some bigshots in the 4th quarter today, him and Gordon though, the Bulls are all about the long ball, so why not have both of them on, the only thing missing is Nocioni .


----------



## narek

Mike McGraw weighed in on the whole thing:

We’re at a loss: NBA style doesn’t work on world stage anymore  



> The latest version of USA Basketball was supposed to be a three-year experiment, but the nation might as well cut its losses right now.
> 
> No matter how many NBA stars sign up, the United States cannot put together a team in three weeks that will succeed at international basketball.
> 
> In case you missed the 2:30 a.m. CDT tipoff Friday, the U.S. lost to Greece 101-95 in the semifinals of the FIBA world championships in Japan. Carmelo Anthony led the U.S. with 27 points, while Bulls guard Kirk Hinrich scored 12 before fouling out.
> 
> The U.S. played Argentina for the bronze medal early this morning. Argentina lost to Spain 75-74 in the other semifinal after Bulls forward Andres Nocioni caught a pass from Manu Ginobili and missed an open 3-pointer just before the final buzzer.
> 
> Spain’s best player, Pau Gasol, suffered a foot injury late in the game, and his status for Sunday’s gold-medal match against Greece is in question.
> 
> In many ways, the United States’ failure to win a major international competition since the 2000 Olympics is a success story. Basketball has become so popular around the world that there are now a half-dozen countries capable of beating the U.S.
> 
> What’s become painfully obvious is NBA players are not suited for the international style.


His suggestions at ways to change this sound familiar.


----------



## mizenkay




----------



## soonerterp

mizenkay said:


>


What is Hinrich looking at? Not his medal apparently.

I recorded the game, playing back now ...


----------



## Ron Cey

MUCH better defensive intensity and rotations (ignoring the lazy first quarter of course). And though the ball movement still needs to improve, it was better than yesterday's abomination.

To deliberately further my agenda from yesterday of slightly increasing the role player ratio, Team USA did not take control of the game until Coach K put both Hinrich and Battier in along with LeBron/Wade/Brand during the third quarter. I'd like every rotation to have a similar mix as the superior balance and intensity was noticeable. 

Of course I'd be less than forthcoming if I did't provide the alternative explanation for the surge which is that Ginobli inexplicably sat the entire 3rd quarter. 

After a miserable first quarter, it was a much better game from a team play/fundamentals perspective than yesterday's game. Kudos.


----------



## DaBullz

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

Why didn't we send over the Heat?


----------



## MikeDC

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

It certainly didn't hurt that virtually all of Argintina's guys were in foul trouble by the third quarter, which serverely hampered their defense.

That, of course, is at least partially a result of the US getting after them on offense.


----------



## Good Hope

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



> USA Wins Bronze Medal
> 
> SAITAMA, Japan, Sept. 2 -- It may not have been the gold, but Team USA still left the 2006 FIBA World Championship with a medal.
> One day after suffering a semifinal loss to Greece, Team USA bounced back to topple Argentina, 96-81, in the bronze-medal game on Saturday. USA finished the tournament with an 8-1 record.
> 
> After trailing by as many as nine in the first half, Team USA rode the hot shooting of Carmelo Anthony en route to a 50-49 advantage at intermission.
> 
> In the second half, Team USA made sure it would come home with its 10th medal in FIBA competition by increasing its defensive pressure. Tri-captains Anthony, Dwyane Wade and LeBron James led the charge as Team USA outscored Argentina 19-13 in the third quarter.
> 
> Wade was in the zone in the final period, erupting for 19 of his 32 points as Team USA increased its lead.
> 
> Wade went 10-for-14 from the field, including 3-for-3 from 3-point range. James was outstanding, posting 22 points, nine rebounds and seven assists, and Anthony scored 13.
> 
> Argentina was led by Luis Scola (19 points), Andrés Nocioni (18) and Carlos Delfino (13).


recap


----------



## McBulls

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



MikeDC said:


> It certainly didn't hurt that virtually all of Argintina's guys were in foul trouble by the third quarter, which serverely hampered their defense.


Well, at least the USA team was good enough to beat Argentina's second string when they got 15 more free throws.


----------



## ChiBron

Yeah, we were good enough to attack the basket and get some of their top players in foul trouble. It seemed like both LeBron and Wade made a conscious effort to make sure we didn't take too many outside shots and it worked. Nice leadership by both. We pretty much dominated the game from LATE 2nd qtr onwards and played good enough D to have Argentina shooting hail mary 3s in the 2nd half.


----------



## Wynn

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



soonerterp said:


> *Oh well ifs and buts are like candy and nuts* ... as far as international competition is concerned, now there is the task of beating Argentina for that bronze medal, and then looking to next summer I guess.


I'll thank everybody right bow to keep your butts out of my nuts..... in return, I pledge to keep my nuts far from your butts!

:cowboy:


----------



## narek

I like this picture:


----------



## Frankensteiner

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



Hustle said:


> There was a poll on ESPN.com and one of the questions was would Kobe have helped this team, when I voted only 42% of the people had voted yes. That is ludacris, he is better and more experienced than any of the tricaptains right now. Moreover he can shoot and play defense, skill sets this team is severly lacking.


I don't think Kobe would have helped. So much of what he does is already duplicated by Lebron, Wade, and Anthony. As far as physical talent, this team is fine but they still don't have enough team jib to win.


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



Frankensteiner said:


> I don't think Kobe would have helped. So much of what he does is already duplicated by Lebron, Wade, and Anthony. As far as physical talent, this team is fine but they still don't have enough team jib to win.


Kobe is a completely different player than those three.


----------



## Good Hope

narek said:


> I like this picture:


Glad they're both on our side. I think this has been a great experience for both of them, notwithstanding the loss to Greece. I think it will really help the team rally around Ben, Kirk and Andres in the season.


----------



## L.O.B

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

I liked this team and with growth as players this unit can challenge for the Gold in 2 years. We have to face the fact that the US can't expect Gold just because America invented the game. I think it's great that the sport has become global and the US dominating the world is over.


----------



## DaBullz

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



narek said:


> I like this picture:



:cowboy:


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



Good Hope said:


> Glad they're both on our side. I think this has been a great experience for both of them, notwithstanding the loss to Greece. I think it will really help the team rally around Ben, Kirk and Andres in the season.


Don't forget Ben.


----------



## McBulls

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



Frankensteiner said:


> I don't think Kobe would have helped. So much of what he does is already duplicated by Lebron, Wade, and Anthony. As far as physical talent, this team is fine but they still don't have enough team jib to win.


Kobe is a better player than all three. He can hit a higher percentage of international 3 pointers than any of them. He's a better ball handler, a better defender and a better shooter. And he'd hit his foul shots. It's hard to see how he wouldn't help that team.


----------



## Frankensteiner

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



McBulls said:


> Kobe is a better player than all three. He can hit a higher percentage of international 3 pointers than any of them. He's a better ball handler, a better defender and a better shooter. And he'd hit his foul shots. It's hard to see how he wouldn't help that team.


Kobe is not a significantly better player than all three, I'm not even sure that he's better at all than Wade or Lebron. This team is clearly not losing because of the lack of another talented player. With the exception of Hinrich, Jamison, Joe Johnson, and Battier, every player on Team USA would be the best player on any other world team. Kobe excels at isolation, which is why he duplicates the three best scorers on the team. He's the last thing this team (as presently comprised) should be worried about.


----------



## ChiBron

Kobe would've helped, but then again so would've Redd, Ray Allen, KG or Kidd.

We didn't miss one specific player. Heck, I could just say we didn't miss anyone considering 7 of the 9 games we played were blowouts. The only game we did lose could've been avoided w/ slightly better FT shooting.

All Team USA needs is _TIME_ to gel in order to FLAT OUT dominate. Aside from some minor tweaks we better be sending the same team to the '08 Olympics.


----------



## Hustle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



Frankensteiner said:


> Kobe is not a significantly better player than all three, I'm not even sure that he's better at all than Wade or Lebron. This team is clearly not losing because of the lack of another talented player. With the exception of Hinrich, Jamison, Joe Johnson, and Battier, every player on Team USA would be the best player on any other world team. Kobe excels at isolation, which is why he duplicates the three best scorers on the team. He's the last thing this team (as presently comprised) should be worried about.


Kobe is better w/o the ball than all of those guys hands down. He would've been the teams best defensive player.


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

I think Oden and Kobe are the givens to be added to the team, so Miller/Jamison are defnitely being left behind in 08.


----------



## rwj333

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



Hustle said:


> Kobe is better w/o the ball than all of those guys hands down. He would've been the teams best defensive player.


I agree.  Kobe isn't significantly better than Lebron in the NBA, but he would be in international play. His experience, defense and long-range shooting would have made a huge difference.


----------



## TwinkieTowers

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



rwj333 said:


> I agree. Kobe isn't significantly better than Lebron in the NBA, but he would be in international play. His experience, defense and *long-range shooting* would have made a huge difference.


Kobe, the career 33.6% three-point shooter? Kobe, the guy who was pretty much doggin' it on purpose in the second half of Game 7 against Phoenix?


----------



## synergy825

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



sloth said:


> Kobe is a completely different player than those three.



Agreed. People knock on Kobe all they want, but Kobe has that killer instinct. Wade has it too sometimes, but Kobe has it consistently. Kobe would be a great addition on the team.


----------



## Hustle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



TwinkieTowers said:


> Kobe, the career 33.6% three-point shooter? Kobe, the guy who was pretty much doggin' it on purpose in the second half of Game 7 against Phoenix?


In defense of Kobe's shooting he is often times doubled all the way out to the 3pt stripe, and often times take a long bomb with the shot or game clock expiring, but more importantly the FIBA stripe is 2.5-3 feet closer. Kobe is a lot better from there and overall has a better mid range game than any of those guys, Carmelo is close, not Wade or Bron. 

I didn't see game 7, but the whole thing sounds weird. I don't see Kobe dogging it in an important game like that, I've never seen him dog it ever. And I am really not a Kobe fan.


----------



## MikeDC

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

Kobe's made the 1st All-Defensive team 4 times and the 2nd team twice. Wade, Lebron and Melo have combined for one second team appearance.


----------



## McBulls

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



TwinkieTowers said:


> Kobe, the career 33.6% three-point shooter?


Wade 24.1%
Anthony 28.2%
James 33.0%

Yes, Kobe is the better shooter.


----------



## ChiBron

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



Hustle said:


> I don't see Kobe dogging it in an important game like that, I've never seen him dog it ever.


Neither did any of us until the 2nd half of Game 7, where he basically STOPPED playing when his team needed him most.


----------



## Diable

Just about any reliable deep shooter would have helped us in the Greece game,but everyone forgets that we were shooting just fine up to that point and that we got plenty of wide open shots in that game.We just had the misfortune to go really cold from outside in a game that we needed to play well in.Honestly the International Trey shouldn't be a very difficult shot for our guys and nearly everyone on our roster should be able to shoot a decent percentage.We did just that except for the one game we really needed to.


----------



## Bullsky

I think Kobe will be a chemistry killer. There's no stats to back up the opposition to my thought.


----------



## johnston797

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



Bullsky said:


> I think Kobe will be a chemistry killer. There's no stats to back up the opposition to my thought.


Kobe would be nice, but it's interior D where we were completely lacking. Tyson Chandler circa 2004-2005 or hopefully Tyrus Thomas circa 2007-2008 would have a place on the team IMHO.


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

Hey go looky here for a li'l talk with Hinrich:



> Kirk Hinrich's final game at the FIBA World Championship may have been special not only because Team USA took a bronze medal, but also because he did so against a side that included his NBA team-mate Andres Nocioni. ...
> 
> ... the 25-year-old also helped address a shortage of good, consistent outside shooters and he showed he filled that void by going 12 of 26 from three-point range over the course of the tournament.
> 
> In fact, hadn't it been for Hinrich's four efforts from long range, who knows if America would have even had a chance to come within four points of the European champions Greece in Friday's semi final. ...
> 
> FIBA: Finishing with a medal even if it’s just a bronze is still a good way to finish the tournament.
> 
> Hinrich: Yeah. I mean what happened against Greece obviously wasn't what we wanted. But Argentina is a great team, so we're happy to win. Our performance was good especially since it's very hard to play a consolation game. But the bottom line is that we're representing our country and we're still working to win gold at the Olympic Games in two years time, so we're happy to win this medal.
> 
> FIBA: Some might say that you lost against Greece because you underestimated them. What are your thoughts on that?
> 
> Hinrich: They played well but we just didn't do well defensively. We were really bad. We couldn't guard their pick and roll and we really didn't guard them at all.


More at the above link.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

Hinrich's 4 efforts to keep USA in against Greece ?

Please . What a load of BS

Enough of the Chip'n Biff Glory gong ringing it up for the lesser talented white boy jump shooting Pleasantville BS

He was one of the principal culprits that gave Greece the game


----------



## Good Hope

SausageKingofChicago said:


> Hinrich's 4 efforts to keep USA in against Greece ?
> 
> Please . What a load of BS
> 
> Enough of the Chip'n Biff Glory gong ringing it up for the lesser talented white boy jump shooting Pleasantville BS
> 
> He was one of the principal culprits that gave Greece the game


Sausage, I read your analysis of what happened (I didn't see the game), and I can believe it, because from what I have seen of Kirk, he can shrink at the moment he needs to shine. However, I haven't seen anyone else back up your story. 

I wonder if anyone else who watched would agree that Kirk's timidity and failure to get the Greek point under control was a major factor in the USA's loss?

To me, this is the major reason why we need Ben Gordon and Ben Wallace (and later, Tyrus Terminator) on our team, especially Ben Wallace. Kirk is not likely ever going to be the real leader for the team. He's great for the day to day operations. He raised his level of play in the playoffs. But he's not the guy that you can count on to cut off the other team's head. 

I'm really interested to see how this summer experience will affect Kirk's game. I'm even more interested to see the effect Ben W. will have on both Kirk and Ben G.'s play. I'm so looking forward to this season.

Sorry to turn this into a Bulls' thing, but it's related to the World's, anyway...

And what happened to Greece in the Finals? Jeez. It looks like they gave everything to beat the USA. Too bad for them.


----------



## soonerterp

SausageKingofChicago said:


> Hinrich's 4 efforts to keep USA in against Greece ?
> 
> Please . What a load of BS
> 
> Enough of the Chip'n Biff Glory gong ringing it up for the lesser talented white boy jump shooting Pleasantville BS
> 
> He was one of the principal culprits that gave Greece the game


Chill out man ... I'll give you that Hinrich's shortcomings were instrumental in part to the loss against Greece, but I'm loath to admit he wasn't the only one responsible -- the Greeks outplayed them, plain and simple, and it isn't like Hinrich was solely responsible for the loss -- there were shooting woes on Team USA all around that morning (I will agree with some analysts that he does tend to get down on himself and draw inward when he does have a bad day at the office, and, well, against Greece, that was a bad time to have a bad day at the office).

I'll also grant that's a poorly written introduction in that FIBA site article, but "Chip 'n' Biff glory gong," while funny, was that really necessary? It isn't like I was out to take a whiz in your Lucky Charms.


----------



## Good Hope

For completeness....

link 



> Spain 70, Greece 47
> Spain Takes Home the Gold
> 
> SAITAMA, Japan, Sept. 3 (Ticker) -- Even without its best player, Spain is the King of the World.
> 
> Jorge Garbajosa and Juan-Carlos Navarro scored 20 points apiece to more than compensate for the absence of NBA All-Star Pau Gasol as Spain earned its first gold medal at the World Championship with a 70-47 victory over Greece.
> 
> Gasol cried when he left the court with a left foot injury after Spain's 75-74 victory over Argentina in the semifinals on Friday. This time, the 7-foot power forward cried tears of joy after his teammates made him proud with an awe-inspiring performance.
> 
> Spain (9-0) more than proved that it is not just Gasol and a supporting cast. Just ask Greece (8-1), the 2005 Eurobasket champions who stunned the United States, 101-95, here in the semifinals on Friday.
> 
> Garbajosa, who was signed by the Toronto Raptors in the offseason, made all six of his 3-pointers, and Spain's trio of guards - Navarro, Jose Calderon and Sergio Rodriguez - were too quick for Greece.
> 
> But the story was Spain's suffocating defense. While Greece seemed to drive to the basket with ease against Team USA, it failed to score more than 13 points in any quarter vs. Spain.
> 
> Garbajosa, Felipe Reyes and Navarro combined for 30 points in the first half when Spain built a 43-23 lead.
> 
> Each team managed just 11 points in the third quarter and Greece never threatened in the fourth quarter. After Vasileios Spanoulis scored the first basket of the fourth quarter with 8:54 left, Garbajosa hit a 3-pointer and Berni Rodriguez converted a layup off a pass by Sergio Rodriguez to start a 12-2 run.
> 
> After Greece scored five straight points to pull within 66-43, Garbajosa hit his sixth 3-pointer of the game with 2:22 left.
> 
> The win earned Spain an automatic bid to the 2008 Olympics.


----------



## BG7

Kirk Hinrich was the best player in the Greece game (I only watched the 2nd half  )

How bad did Hinrich play in the 1st half, because he looked good in the 2nd half.


----------



## soonerterp

In the first half he went up for a shot then hesitated and I think wound up committing a foul and it was a huge mental mistake. As I recall -- and I was half asleep watching the game -- the lot of his scoring came in the 2d half including that big 3 in the final minutes that pulled USA to within 3 or four points.


----------



## johnston797

sloth said:


> Kirk Hinrich was the best player in the Greece game (I only watched the 2nd half  )
> 
> How bad did Hinrich play in the 1st half, because he looked good in the 2nd half.


Granted, the coaches didn't ask him to do much on O, but Hinrich looked mediocre at best in the 2nd. Worse in the first. 

Melo was clearly the best US player.


----------



## ChiBron

Kirk hit a couple of late 3s in the game against Greece. Prior to that he was a complete non factor on one end of the court and his D wasn't much to brag abt either. I don't know how anyone(even the Kirk-can-do-no-wrong crowd this board's loaded w/) can watch the game and come out thinking he was the best player on the floor. He was close to being the opposite.


----------



## mizenkay

so it was kirk's fault they didn't win the gold? and only his fault? nobody else was on the floor? that's what i get from the king of fatty meat. it's kirk's fault the offense was poorly designed and contained no off the ball movement and the team continued to play one on five? his fault the entire team couldn't adjust to defend the pick and roll? his fault they couldn't hit their FREE THROWS?

please.

yes, the sequence in the second quarter where he had a major brain lapse and didn't take that three was the "fuel" that go the greeks going on a 22-5 run. but what if he had taken the shot and missed and the greeks went out on a fast break? it's all woulda coulda shoulda!! for all the smoke that was blown up chris pauls *** at the beginning of this thing, he pulled a really nice disappearing act in that game.


kirk hit a three with about 36 seconds left that brought it to within 4. he was BLATANTLY FOULED on the play by "SOFA" and there was no call. i mean if you're gonna call it (like they did on him in the second) call it both ways. i mean the guy FELL ON HIM. it was pathetic he didn't get that call. 

anyway.

his play in the Greece game was mediocre. yes. but to say that kirk, and kirk alone is the reason we lost? please.


----------



## Good Hope

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



mizenkay said:


> so it was kirk's fault they didn't win the gold? and only his fault? nobody else was on the floor? that's what i get from the king of fatty meat. it's kirk's fault the offense was poorly designed and contained no off the ball movement and the team continued to play one on five? his fault the entire team couldn't adjust to defend the pick and roll? his fault they couldn't hit their FREE THROWS?
> 
> please.
> 
> yes, the sequence in the second quarter where he had a major brain lapse and didn't take that three was the "fuel" that go the greeks going on a 22-5 run. but what if he had taken the shot and missed and the greeks went out on a fast break? it's all woulda coulda shoulda!! for all the smoke that was blown up chris pauls *** at the beginning of this thing, he pulled a really nice disappearing act in that game.
> 
> 
> kirk hit a three with about 36 seconds left that brought it to within 4. he was BLATANTLY FOULED on the play by "SOFA" and there was no call. i mean if you're gonna call it (like they did on him in the second) call it both ways. i mean the guy FELL ON HIM. it was pathetic he didn't get that call.
> 
> anyway.
> 
> his play in the Greece game was mediocre. yes. but to say that kirk, and kirk alone is the reason we lost? please.


Miz, 

I hear you, but, honestly, I take his analysis to mean that Kirk was a very important player on that team. Kirk and Shane's jobs were to be the glue that got people playing together. Kirk's role in doing so was recognized and rewarded with a starting stint. But it sounds like he got rattled, and when he didn't keep himself together, the team fell apart. 

If Kirk is an important player, then he can have an impact on the outcomes of games. Unfortunately, in this game, it sounds like he just couldn't pull it off. But that comes with the territory. When the team comes to depend on you, you're going to get your share of the blame when things don't go right. That doesn't change the fact that the team had come to rely on Kirk increasingly for keeping things in order on offense, and for leading the charge on defense. He just didn't come through in this game. Apparently, he and everyone else did much better against Argentina.

So, I look at it as a great opportunity for Kirk to grow and learn from this. He's going to be even more crucial for the Bulls and their success. He needs to know that as a leader for a team with expectations, he's got to keep it together in those crucial moments so that Ben, Ben, Tyrus, Andres, Luol and others can do their thing, too, and the Bulls can do more than just threaten the Miamis and Dallases of the NBA.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



Good Hope said:


> Miz,
> 
> I hear you, but, honestly, I take his analysis to mean that Kirk was a very important player on that team. Kirk and Shane's jobs were to be the glue that got people playing together. Kirk's role in doing so was recognized and rewarded with a starting stint. *But it sounds like he got rattled, and when he didn't keep himself together, the team fell apart.*
> 
> If Kirk is an important player, then he can have an impact on the outcomes of games. Unfortunately, in this game, it sounds like he just couldn't pull it off. But that comes with the territory. When the team comes to depend on you, you're going to get your share of the blame when things don't go right. That doesn't change the fact that the team had come to rely on Kirk increasingly for keeping things in order on offense, and for leading the charge on defense. He just didn't come through in this game. Apparently, he and everyone else did much better against Argentina.
> 
> So, I look at it as a great opportunity for Kirk to grow and learn from this. He's going to be even more crucial for the Bulls and their success. He needs to know that as a leader for a team with expectations, he's got to keep it together in those crucial moments so that Ben, Ben, Tyrus, Andres, Luol and others can do their thing, too, and the Bulls can do more than just threaten the Miamis and Dallases of the NBA.





coach k took kirk *out of the game* after that sequence for most of the remainder of the second. 

and the team was still unable to defend the pick and roll.

the team was still unable to make their free throws.

the team was still unable to play anything other than a one on five offense. no wonder kirk looked a little lost out there at times. he was probably stunned he even got the ball back in that one sequence. 

so sorry, i don't buy it that it was his fault - and his fault only - that they lost.

i mean they can't make an adjustment to defend a simple pick and roll?


----------



## soonerterp

mizenkay said:


> so it was kirk's fault they didn't win the gold? and only his fault? nobody else was on the floor? that's what i get from the king of fatty meat. it's kirk's fault the offense was poorly designed and contained no off the ball movement and the team continued to play one on five? his fault the entire team couldn't adjust to defend the pick and roll? his fault they couldn't hit their FREE THROWS?
> 
> please.
> 
> yes, the sequence in the second quarter where he had a major brain lapse and didn't take that three was the "fuel" that go the greeks going on a 22-5 run. but what if he had taken the shot and missed and the greeks went out on a fast break? it's all woulda coulda shoulda!! for all the smoke that was blown up chris pauls *** at the beginning of this thing, he pulled a really nice disappearing act in that game.
> 
> 
> kirk hit a three with about 36 seconds left that brought it to within 4. he was BLATANTLY FOULED on the play by "SOFA" and there was no call. i mean if you're gonna call it (like they did on him in the second) call it both ways. i mean the guy FELL ON HIM. it was pathetic he didn't get that call.
> 
> anyway.
> 
> his play in the Greece game was mediocre. yes. but to say that kirk, and kirk alone is the reason we lost? please.


That's what I was trying to say. Hinrich had a bad day but he wasn't solely responsible for Team USA's loss to Greece.

TeamUSA in a respect through this thing reminded me somewhat of those Duke teams that usually are on cruise control for a season and then get outplayed by, say, a Maryland or one of the other Not Baby Blue Most Hated Rival ACC teams ... their rhythm is disrupted and they come back and beat the next opponent most of the time but its like their season has already been spoiled and, at least in the last couple of years, ends more prematurely than was anticipated.


----------



## Good Hope

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



mizenkay said:


> coach k took kirk *out of the game* after that sequence for most of the remainder of the second.
> 
> and the team was still unable to defend the pick and roll.
> 
> the team was still unable to make their free throws.
> 
> the team was still unable to play anything other than a one on five offense. no wonder kirk looked a little lost out there at times. he was probably stunned he even got the ball back in that one sequence.
> 
> so sorry, i don't buy it that it was his fault - and his fault only - that they lost.
> 
> i mean they can't make an adjustment to defend a simple pick and roll?


I'm not preaching that.

I'm just saying that Kirk's job was to organize the offense and lead the attack on defense. If he gets put back on his heels, it affects the whole team. 

No doubt the other players became more selfish when things weren't going right, and that was part of Kirk's problem, I'm sure. Like Coach K said, let's not fight each other. They probably were fighting each other at that point. That's when Kirk needed to take charge and get the team back to playing team ball. It didn't happen. 

I'm not saying "fault". I'm saying Kirk had some real responsibility for the success or failure of the team in that game, and he couldn't pull it off. I don't really even care about the other players, to be honest. When winners have a responsibility to get something done, they get it done. 

I want to see Kirk grow in leadership as our point to take responsibility for how the team plays on O and D. I want to see Kirk be the one to say, "the team needed me to keep us together in this crucial sequence of plays, but I didn't get it done. It's on me, and I take responsibility for it." And then work on doing it, until the team can count on him to do it no matter what, and he leads them to an NBA championship or two.

That's all.


----------



## mizenkay

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

get back to playing "team ball"?

did they really do that in any other game?

um, no.

honestly, i am not saying kirk was anything other than mediocre in the game, but to pin the "philosophy" on him, and say it's his job to get them to play a certain way, and that because they didn't it's his fault and his alone is myopic.

when coach k et al couldn't do it? the design of the offense is five guys standing around watching either melo, wade or lebron play one on one? 

the chicago bulls play better TEAM ball than TEAM USA did.

i can't wait till the NBA season starts and we can watch some real basketball!


----------



## Diable

The Greeks beat us because they outplayed us as a team.They played the game of their lives.Villanova lost to Georgetown three times before they were almost perfect in the NCAA title game,but noone remembers that.We played poorly and there's plenty of blame to go around.It looks to me that the biggest problem was unfamiliarity with the Greeks and the inability to play a decent zone defense.The Greeks were terrible against the zone this morning and they were as col as ice from outside.Against us they couldn't miss and we couldn't hit.Every year in the NCAA tournament the exact same thing happens and this is the expected norm.You simply have to play well in every game to win a single elimination tournament.


----------



## Good Hope

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



mizenkay said:


> get back to playing "team ball"?
> 
> did they really do that in any other game?
> 
> um, no.
> 
> honestly, i am not saying kirk was anything other than mediocre in the game, but to pin the "philosophy" on him, and say it's his job to get them to play a certain way, and that because they didn't it's his fault and his alone is myopic.
> 
> when coach k et al couldn't do it? the design of the offense is five guys standing around watching either melo, wade or lebron play one on one?
> 
> the chicago bulls play better TEAM ball than TEAM USA did.
> 
> i can't wait till the NBA season starts and we can watch some real basketball!



Ok, ok, maybe I spoke hopefully when I said, "back to playing team ball." 

And, again, I'm not saying it's Kirk's fault, and his alone. 

But...and I'll keep saying this because I believe its true...Kirk was important to the team. That means the team needed Kirk. The fact that he got a starting gig is testimony to that. 

So then, how was he important? Was he important statistically? He was never the leading scorer. He didn't lead the team in assists. What was his job? Why was he important? Why did Coach K and Colangelo want him around, and even pissed off Arenas to keep him around?

Don't you think it was because he was the guy responsible for being "tough", keeping the team on task and focused on winning, not stats or glory. And as long as he was out there being tough-minded like Skiles, leading the attack on defense, keeping the ball moving on offense, he was really helping the team a lot. 

I'll grant you all the faults of Coach K, the other team members, etc. 

But for Kirk to lead the Bulls, he's got to see what it is that he does that makes him so important to his team, and then grow in confidence and determination enough to do it, no matter what.

No blame for Kirk from me. But I really hope that Kirk doesn't say to himself, "those guys just won't share the ball! What could I do?" I really hope he says, "Man, its not easy to get a bunch of prima donna superstars to play a team game. I've got to get better at that so I can help my country and help my team get back to the top!"

Do you see where I'm coming from?


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

OK so I've given Kirk some stick. But the defensive responses , "look the other way" type of reaction or just flat out misrepresenting my post in response clearly makes my point 

The point being that Kirk , whilst a nice player , is a more a player that is perceived in a certain way and is celebrated in accordance with that perception 

Great White Hope ?

I don't know about Great but he certainly represents a demographic . And for the fact that he's so modest and unassuming and not in your face with I am and Me , he's refreshing and welcomed for those that crave for old timey ball with aw shucks and gee wiz values.

It is this perception from some , which IMO serves as a super strong root of support for Kirk , which colours holes in his game or an analysis of a game he played in which ( gulp ) he may have sucked arse 

And yes he sucked arse in the game against Greece. Fact.

Insofar as Chicago Bulls basketball is concerned I have always said Kirk is a symbol as much as he is a basketball player on our team. I truly believe he has more power in this regard to those that wield it in the building of this Bulls team than what he does physically as a basketball player

He's the standard . He's the example. He's what those with more talent need to yield to in order to be a controllable weapon for those that seek to control them. He's Snowball's Boxer.

Yessiree works.

In certain scenarios

And those that insist on Yessiree / Right Way / Father Knows Best man management love it so much because they don't believe in collaborative freestyling decision making ( the too many cooks in the kitchen spoling the broth theory ) and they are egocentric ( and perhaps good enough ) to manage a sum of the parts brand of ball with 80% of the talent and 100% of the head and win with it as opposed to 100% of the talent and 80% of the head.

Hey how do you think the Bulls have been winning the last 2 years in the NBA ?

So much for the physchology of support and preferenced management styles and the reasons why..and why a symbol like Kirk is elevated to where he is and back more specifically to Kirk and that game against Greece.

I never said Kirk was soley responsible .

I said he should bear a "substantial accountability" and was one of "the primary culprits"

Hardly the langauge of someone suggesting that needs to cop it "soley" as was stated by those that either misinterpreted my post or flat out purposefully misrepresented it.

I did say , and I will say again , that my reasons for thinking he needed to bear a greater proportion of the blame were because 

1. Outside of the jump travel he wasn't yanked straight away and fluffed several more _consecutive_ plays on both sides of the ball that was a substantial contributing primary factor in the Greek swing prior to half time. It may be painful to admit for some to admit and it may not be pretty but Kirk was the swing. The worst one wasn't the jump travel however it was that god awful half way to 3 point hoist when there was no good USA court position that led to a 3 on 1 fast break - one of two plays after that jump travel and after Spindoulos ( spelling ) continued to hammer him ( this making me think on the odd occasion Kirk has gone up against someone super quick like Marcus Banks and had his arse handed to him ) 

2. When he came back in the 3rd more blown plays and Spindolous continuing to go through him like a dodgy Souvalaki obtained from a street vendor at 3.00am in the morning who has been picking his arse all night and hasn't washed his hands.

The facts were there were several plays and pretty much close together on both sides of the ball that allowed Greece to get traction 

For those that suggest Hinrich was the best player on the floor they obviously didn't watch the game or they must have pretty big holes in their pockets


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

And the problem with using Kirk as a symbol is a consequent reliance of relying on him for leadership

This has been alluded to in this thread

Kirk's no leader folks

He's a puppet that is used as the example to convey expectations to others

It ain't from within


----------



## Cyanobacteria

Wow. I love how much international basketball means for a couple of weeks every 2 years, but so very little the other 102 weeks. 

Yes, the US sucked against Greece. I have only watched the first half so far, (turn sarcasm detector on) I need to be in a better place emotionally before I can go on (sarcasm detectors to standby). 

Yes Kirk sucked in the half I've watched so far. That half also featured about 4 posessions where (insert US players name here) went one-on-five while the other 4 grew roots on the perimeter, and other possessions that were nearly as bad. Very few of the US players can even play fundamentally sound defense. Turning up the intensity on d meant guarding their own men tighter and gambling even more, which, of course allowed the picks to be even more effective and help defense to be farther away. I also watched both D-Wade and CP3 trot lazily back on defense while Greece scored 5 on 4. They didn't just get back last, they literally jogged back, _very slowly_, made the absolute minimum effort to help out the teammates they just stranded. Is this the effort that should be showed in a one-and-done situation? So, yeah Kirk sucked it up and contributed significantly to the stinkitude, but he hardly committed the worst of the sins of that half in my mind.

I like what Coach K has done. I will not fault him for using a strategy based on the fact that our 10th man is usually better than the other team's 5th. I like the consistency of having the same coach, same players, same system for 3 summers in a row and I would not even think about replacing him with anybody. I will, however, say this... *Can we put in a freakin' 2-3 zone next time?!?* :curse: We scored what? 95 against Greece? Sounds like enough in a 40 minutes game. How 'bout we hold Greece to say... 80? 

I have also heard more than enough criticism (mostly on talk radio) of the team and coaches where some yahoo complains about how much talent we have and lists 8 guys, even though we can only play 5 at a time, in a game short enough that the other team only needs to field a couple of really good players and 4 or 5 decent role players to match up. Not only has the talent gap closed significantly, it only had to close 5 guys deep, not by a 12-man roster, not by a league, not by 100,000 kids shooting in playgrounds around the countries.


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## mizenkay

SausageKingofChicago said:


> *He's a puppet that is used as the example to convey expectations to others*













:clown:


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

mizenkay said:


> :clown:


 :laugh:


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## SausageKingofChicago

Cyanobacteria said:


> Wow. I love how much international basketball means for a couple of weeks every 2 years, but so very little the other 102 weeks.
> 
> Yes, the US sucked against Greece. I have only watched the first half so far, (turn sarcasm detector on) I need to be in a better place emotionally before I can go on (sarcasm detectors to standby).
> 
> Yes Kirk sucked in the half I've watched so far. That half also featured about 4 posessions where (insert US players name here) went one-on-five while the other 4 grew roots on the perimeter, and other possessions that were nearly as bad. Very few of the US players can even play fundamentally sound defense. Turning up the intensity on d meant guarding their own men tighter and gambling even more, which, of course allowed the picks to be even more effective and help defense to be farther away. I also watched both D-Wade and CP3 trot lazily back on defense while Greece scored 5 on 4. They didn't just get back last, they literally jogged back, _very slowly_, made the absolute minimum effort to help out the teammates they just stranded. Is this the effort that should be showed in a one-and-done situation? So, yeah Kirk sucked it up and contributed significantly to the stinkitude, but he hardly committed the worst of the sins of that half in my mind.
> 
> I like what Coach K has done. I will not fault him for using a strategy based on the fact that our 10th man is usually better than the other team's 5th. I like the consistency of having the same coach, same players, same system for 3 summers in a row and I would not even think about replacing him with anybody. I will, however, say this... *Can we put in a freakin' 2-3 zone next time?!?* :curse: We scored what? 95 against Greece? Sounds like enough in a 40 minutes game. How 'bout we hold Greece to say... 80?
> 
> I have also heard more than enough criticism (mostly on talk radio) of the team and coaches where some yahoo complains about how much talent we have and lists 8 guys, even though we can only play 5 at a time, in a game short enough that the other team only needs to field a couple of really good players and 4 or 5 decent role players to match up. Not only has the talent gap closed significantly, it only had to close 5 guys deep, not by a 12-man roster, not by a league, not by 100,000 kids shooting in playgrounds around the countries.


Good post

The only thing I will say about Coach K is that he was super stinky the other night 


He panicked when the Greeks got a run on and kept yo' yo'ing the subs that made whatever flimsy combinations that tried to get hold ..all but impossible


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

Ya know I would not rule out Jason Kidd being added to the squad 

The type of squad I think you need is 

Miller
Howard
Stoudamire
Garnett
Brand 
James 
Bryant
Morrison 
Johnson
Redd
Reddick
Kidd
Billups
Hinrich

That's right 

No Anthony or Wade ( lack of outside shooting hurts as well as non illegal defenses that don't favor their games ) James is a much better passer and is more dynamic and Bryant is a better all round option than Wade . Need to cull and create a pecking order and James and Bryant win over Anthony and Wade

No Arenas ..too much of a loose cannon and put him in the Baron Davis , Steph Marbury type performances from previous Team USA's

Brad Miller over Bosh - Brad Miller along with Brand and Garnett are the best big man passers Team USA have available- Stoudamire is no slouch either and Howard is there for the muscle 

Morrison, Allen , Redd and Reddick help out shooting with more support coming from Johnson and Hinrich on the current squad 

Kidd commands the respect at point and brings it all together as only Steve Nash currently can and Billups is a close second . Both are sturdy defenders and Hinrich backs them up

And yes Scott Skiles must Coach . No Phil Jackson mind games and BS ..just Scott Skiles doing his Sgt Foley whoopin on MAYONAAAAAIIISSSEE!

I really would boot Coach K - I think he can handle sapling ego's on the College scene but not when they are fully matured on the NBA level. I don't rate him on this level


----------



## Good Hope

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



SausageKingofChicago said:


> OK so I've given Kirk some stick. But the defensive responses , "look the other way" type of reaction or just flat out misrepresenting my post in response clearly makes my point
> 
> The point being that Kirk , whilst a nice player , is a more a player that is perceived in a certain way and is celebrated in accordance with that perception
> 
> Great White Hope ?
> 
> I don't know about Great but he certainly represents a demographic . And for the fact that he's so modest and unassuming and not in your face with I am and Me , he's refreshing and welcomed for those that crave for old timey ball with aw shucks and gee wiz values.
> 
> It is this perception from some , which IMO serves as a super strong root of support for Kirk , which colours holes in his game or an analysis of a game he played in which ( gulp ) he may have sucked arse
> 
> And yes he sucked arse in the game against Greece. Fact.
> 
> *Insofar as Chicago Bulls basketball is concerned I have always said Kirk is a symbol as much as he is a basketball player on our team. I truly believe he has more power in this regard to those that wield it in the building of this Bulls team than what he does physically as a basketball player
> 
> He's the standard . He's the example. He's what those with more talent need to yield to in order to be a controllable weapon for those that seek to control them. He's Snowball's Boxer.*
> 
> Yessiree works.
> 
> In certain scenarios
> 
> And those that insist on Yessiree / Right Way / Father Knows Best man management love it so much because they don't believe in collaborative freestyling decision making ( the too many cooks in the kitchen spoling the broth theory ) and they are egocentric ( and perhaps good enough ) to manage a sum of the parts brand of ball with 80% of the talent and 100% of the head and win with it as opposed to 100% of the talent and 80% of the head.
> 
> Hey how do you think the Bulls have been winning the last 2 years in the NBA ?
> 
> So much for the physchology of support and preferenced management styles and the reasons why..and why a symbol like Kirk is elevated to where he is and back more specifically to Kirk and that game against Greece.
> 
> I never said Kirk was soley responsible .
> 
> I said he should bear a "substantial accountability" and was one of "the primary culprits"
> 
> Hardly the langauge of someone suggesting that needs to cop it "soley" as was stated by those that either misinterpreted my post or flat out purposefully misrepresented it.
> 
> I did say , and I will say again , that my reasons for thinking he needed to bear a greater proportion of the blame were because
> 
> 1. Outside of the jump travel he wasn't yanked straight away and fluffed several more _consecutive_ plays on both sides of the ball that was a substantial contributing primary factor in the Greek swing prior to half time. It may be painful to admit for some to admit and it may not be pretty but Kirk was the swing. The worst one wasn't the jump travel however it was that god awful half way to 3 point hoist when there was no good USA court position that led to a 3 on 1 fast break - one of two plays after that jump travel and after Spindoulos ( spelling ) continued to hammer him ( this making me think on the odd occasion Kirk has gone up against someone super quick like Marcus Banks and had his arse handed to him )
> 
> 2. When he came back in the 3rd more blown plays and Spindolous continuing to go through him like a dodgy Souvalaki obtained from a street vendor at 3.00am in the morning who has been picking his arse all night and hasn't washed his hands.
> 
> The facts were there were several plays and pretty much close together on both sides of the ball that allowed Greece to get traction
> 
> For those that suggest Hinrich was the best player on the floor they obviously didn't watch the game or they must have pretty big holes in their pockets


You know, SKOC, I can just imagine your fingers rolling around the keyboard like a veritable tsunami as you type this stuff. It's amazing, really.

Hyperbole meter goes off though, when you say that Kirk is a symbol (Edit: I reread your statement) as much as he is a player for the Bulls. Symbols don't lead the team in scoring during the playoffs against the eventual champion Miami Heat, and also they aren't universally recognized as the one player who was able to effectively contain and slow down D Wade. 

He does have symbolic value in representing a way to play and an attitude toward the game (as in, he practices). He isn't really a leader, and probably won't ever be the man on the Bulls, unless he can cure himself of that habit of disappearing. Anyway, Pippen was once thought never to be able to lead. Things can change. I don't know how much he can grow, but I think he can grow some, and having Ben Wallace is going to help him alot, and a more mature Ben Gordon, etc. But I think this summer will help, too. It was a great experience for him, and can only help his overall confidence. 

Anyway, thanks for expanding on your reasons and observations regarding his play against Greece. I enjoyed it a lot. I edited my comments after rereading your statements. Still, I think you play up the symbolism a little too much. He's a good player. Good enough to have an impact (positive as well as negative) on a team of allstars playing for the world championship. I'll take him on my team for what he does, thank you very much.


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

I really hope they add him, he is the outside shooting, and big game performer they need!


----------



## Hustle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

If Redd declines or can't make it I really think Ben should be considered along with Hamilton. Allen will be kind of old by that point, and the team needs a lights out shooter, maybe even 2 or 3.


----------



## Cyanobacteria

SausageKingofChicago said:


> Ya know I would not rule out Jason Kidd being added to the squad
> 
> The type of squad I think you need is
> 
> Miller
> Howard
> Stoudamire
> Garnett
> Brand
> James
> Bryant
> Morrison
> Johnson
> Redd
> Reddick
> Kidd
> Billups
> Hinrich


I like that squad, but I think Kidd and KG have had there fill. Their knees probably all need the summer off. The US made a fair effort, but honestly, how much does a summer tournament matter to USA basketball? If it meant as much as World Cup soccer does to the rest of the world our team might look something like:
Kidd, Billups
Kobe, Vinsanity, Redd
LeBron, Crazy Ron-Ron
KG, Rasheed, Brand
Duncan, Shaq

It just doesn't matter that much and won't as long as the NBA money is gigantic and the NBA season is over 100 games for the guys deep in the playoffs. If it mattered that much, we'd have older guys that would demand to be on the team. We'd send guys with much higher chances of causing an international incident. We'd send guys that would take a playoff foul. We'd send guys with such tremendous egos that no coach on Earth could tame them (although you could make a case that this is inevitable in today's NBA anyway). We'd have somebody headbutt an opponent to the ground, sparking hundreds of internet geeks to make fake versions of the incident.

Oh dear, I hope this doesn't become another talent versus jib argument.

I know, why don't we start a World Championship of American Football so we can destroy every other country at something again.


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

Cyanobacteria said:


> I know, why don't we start a World Championship of American Football so we can destroy every other country at something again.


You probably would considering that no one else in the world plays American Football


----------



## BG7

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



SausageKingofChicago said:


> You probably would considering that no one else in the world plays American Football


Naw, this would be in the bag for us. Our footballs physical advantage is just too big. Its amazing how big these guys can be but still be amazingly athletic. I guess some team "could" beat us with good clock management, relentless defense, and some fancy laterals, but that would probaly lead to some easy touchdowns off of fumbles.

Lets start the American Football World Championships!


----------



## SausageKingofChicago

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



sloth said:


> Naw, this would be in the bag for us. Our footballs physical advantage is just too big. Its amazing how big these guys can be but still be amazingly athletic. I guess some team "could" beat us with good clock management, relentless defense, and some fancy laterals, but that would probaly lead to some easy touchdowns off of fumbles.
> 
> Lets start the American Football World Championships!


Yeah . I agree . There isn't anywhere else in the world where you can find big athletic men


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## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

Sorry to derail but when does TeamUSA arrive back on USA soil?

EDIT -- Never mind apparently they're home. Dwyane Wade and some of his Heat 'mates were at the Miami/Florida State football game Monday night.


----------



## narek

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



soonerterp said:


> Sorry to derail but when does TeamUSA arrive back on USA soil?
> 
> EDIT -- Never mind apparently they're home. Dwyane Wade and some of his Heat 'mates were at the Miami/Florida State football game Monday night.


They left right after the game on Saturday - didn't stay around to watch the Spain/Greece final which is a shame.


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## LegoHat

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



narek said:


> They left right after the game on Saturday - didn't stay around to watch the Spain/Greece final which is a shame.


Maybe for the image of the team, but the actual final game was terrible in my opinon. Greece's offense was horrific until Papaloukas came in, way too late by the way, but even he couldn't make a difference. Everything the Greeks succeded in against the US failed for them against Spain, there was no ball movement, and when you consider the fact that Papadopoulos was constantly double-teamed, it's amazing how bad he was at finding the open jump shooter. 

With that said, Spain's tenacity on defense and team spirit was just excellent. It more than made up for losing Gasol, who was extremely involved in the game even though he couldn't play. Man would I love seeing him on the Bulls at some point.


----------



## soonerterp

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



LegoHat said:


> Maybe for the image of the team, but the actual final game was terrible in my opinon. Greece's offense was horrific until Papaloukas came in, way too late by the way, but even he couldn't make a difference. Everything the Greeks succeded in against the US failed for them against Spain, there was no ball movement, and when you consider the fact that Papadopoulos was constantly double-teamed, it's amazing how bad he was at finding the open jump shooter.
> 
> With that said, Spain's tenacity on defense and team spirit was just excellent. It more than made up for losing Gasol, who was extremely involved in the game even though he couldn't play. Man would I love seeing him on the Bulls at some point.


Pau Gasol will be out of commission for a bit early in the season with the fracture in his foot ... but Sergio Rodriguez from the Spanish Team will be with the Portland Trail Blazers. If he gets to join the team out of camp instead of get sent to NBDL, he could be interesting to watch. Since the team left after the bronze game, and Spain was in a different group in the earlier rounds, I don't guess that Nate McMillan got to see much of him.


----------



## Hustle

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



> "Years playing together will jell us as a unit, (but) if there is no chemistry, it's going to be tough to beat all those talented teams," Bryant said, adding he was confident the two years lead up to the Beijing Olympics would be enough to find that chemistry. SportsLine.com
> 
> Barkley on USA Basketball's loss in the world championship semifinals to Greece: *"They played pretty good. They got to play better. I want you guys (in the media) to stop making excuses for them. I hear, 'They're only together for a month.' I'm like, 'We've always been together for like a month!' Then the second one I hear is, 'Well, we're playing international rules.' We always played international rules! "You guys need to stop making excuses. They have to play better."* Arizona Republic
> 
> Barkley on playing for the Dream Team and winning two Olympic gold medals: "The best compliment I ever got was from Chuck Daly (coach of the Dream Team). He said I was the second best basketball player in the world and if we had a big game, I was going to start. I said, 'There's somebody better than me?' "The second time (in 1996), I actually turned them down. I said, 'Let somebody else enjoy this experience.' They said, 'That's mighty nice.' Then they called two weeks later and said, 'No, we really need you.' " Arizona Republic


"No Excuses"


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## LegoHat

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

You tell 'em Chuck!


----------



## L.O.B

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*

I wouldn't mind seeing the dream team play the current day euro teams. I think everyone forgets that basketball talent has progressed around the globe. This isn't 1996 anymore. 

BTW anyone else find it funny that Kobe who didn't attend the World Championships this season, is talking about the need to develop team chemistry. That's rich stuff.


----------



## MikeDC

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



L.O.B said:


> I wouldn't mind seeing the dream team play the current day euro teams. I think everyone forgets that basketball talent has progressed around the globe. This isn't 1996 anymore.
> 
> BTW anyone else find it funny that Kobe who didn't attend the World Championships this season, is talking about the need to develop team chemistry. That's rich stuff.


It'd be kind of fun to see if the original dream team could get together in their mid 40s and still win against the current world players. We might have to replace Bird (who's 50 and appears barely able to stand) and Barkley (who's 350 and barely able to walk) with a couple of other guys, but I'd wager most of them are still in fairly decent shape. 

That'd be an interesting way to use the US' overall talent advantage. With a deeper talent base and shorter games, each player may only need to play a short amount, and could keep fresh.


----------



## Wynn

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



MikeDC said:


> It'd be kind of fun to see if the original dream team could get together in their mid 40s and still win against the current world players. We might have to replace Bird (who's 50 and appears barely able to stand) and Barkley (who's 350 and barely able to walk) with a couple of other guys, but I'd wager most of them are still in fairly decent shape.
> 
> That'd be an interesting way to use the US' overall talent advantage. With a deeper talent base and shorter games, each player may only need to play a short amount, and could keep fresh.


I know you're mostly joking, but I think a team of 40 year old former superstar players would have a great time hooping for a couple of months and remembering the good old days. They'd be like the old guys in the gym who take on all the kids and kick their collective bums....


----------



## MikeDC

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



Wynn said:


> I know you're mostly joking, but I think a team of 40 year old former superstar players would have a great time hooping for a couple of months and remembering the good old days. They'd be like the old guys in the gym who take on all the kids and kick their collective bums....


I'm only halfway joking, I agree. Since they're mostly retired basketball junkies too, I'd wager they'd be able to practice quite a bit more than the current guys, who have to be thrown together.

I think we're on to something


----------



## Wynn

*Re: OFFICIAL Team USA - FIBA World Championships Thread / August 19 - Sept 3, 2006(me*



MikeDC said:


> I'm only halfway joking, I agree. Since they're mostly retired basketball junkies too, I'd wager they'd be able to practice quite a bit more than the current guys, who have to be thrown together.
> 
> I think we're on to something


You write up the proposal. I'll sign it. We send it over. Our guys talk to their guys and we get it done. Bada Bing, Bada Boom.

Let's do it!


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## TomBoerwinkle#1

Thread unstuck.


----------

