# Rick Bucher reporting new trade rumor ESPN News..



## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

To Portland:

*Devin Harris*Brandon Bass*Nick Fazekas

To Dallas:

*Jason Kidd*Malik Allen*Sergio Rodriguez

To NJ:

*Martell Webster*Jarrett Jack*Channing Frye*DeSagana Diop*Jerry Stackhouse*Devon George*Two 1st round picks


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

just say no! What happens then, Rudy Fernandez will never crack the starting lineup as so many people are hyping him up to?


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## RetroBlazers (Jun 29, 2003)

if pritchard does that trade, i'll personally pay full face value for court side seats so i can slap him in the face.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

That is insane. 

Jack, Martell, Frye, Sergio......for Devin Harris and blah blah blah?


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

That's a little better that we would give up Webster instead of Outlaw, but still too much cause i like Webster and Sergio still has a lot of capability. And its not like Frye is a give away either. I think these are the deals that are being proposed by NJ/Dallas, and KP keeps saying no. As he should.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

Hold out for Josh Howard or no deal. That's my stance.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

At least Trav isn't involved!
Getting rid of 2 pg's for one makes sense as well..so that's decent..
but Tell and our 1st...yikes....this is definitely a deal to consolidate and would kick us out of the playoff race..I'd pass but wouldn't be overly pissed if it happened.
Depth Chart of all our Players
Pg-Harris/Blake/Green/Koponen
SG-Roy/Rudy
SF-Jones/Trav/Miles
PF-LMA/Bass/LaFrentz/McRoberts/Freeland
C-Oden/Pryz/Fazekas
Currently
PG-Harris/Blake/Green
SG-Roy
SF-Jones/Trav
PF-LMA/Bass/McRoberts
C-Pryz/LaFrentz/Fazekas
we better pick up a backup shooting guard for the rest of the year


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

I just don't see how this pushes Dallas over the top either? Kidd is good for this year and next and I guess Sergio is a young asset to have to replace Harris, but I think they lose a lot of their bench. No Bass/Diop/Stack..leaves them very thin up front. I think the Nets are getting way too good of a deal out of this. Take Marty out or make Darius be involved, otherwise I think we could do a bit better.


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## ironcrotch (Apr 20, 2006)

this is one crazy trade, we're pretty much helping dallas leverage taking on Kidd, why in the heck would we do that.. and why would we trade half our team for Harris :thinking2:

it's funny that we'd have good culture guys/chemistry etc etc crammed down our throats for half the season only to have them traded away


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

I like that deal. Jack and Sergio are playing their way out of town lately and Martell has regressed big time. Swapping Frye for Bass gives this team some real toughness that we have been missing on the boards. 

If anyone isn't excited about the idea of Harris as a Blazer, they haven't watched enough Mavs games this season.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9_IGn09Ax0


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## Sonny-Canzano (Oct 20, 2007)

This same deal was also mentioned in a NJ blog:

http://njmg.typepad.com/zzone/2008/01/in-rod-you-shou.html


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## Perfection (May 10, 2004)

I can understand our interest in Brandon Bass, as he has put up very good numbers in limited time and is a young valuable piece...lesser known but maybe on the same level as Frye (though he's shorter). 

Anyways, Fazekas isn't worth crap, and you can't expect Portland to ship out Martell, Sergio, Jack, Frye AND a pick for Bass and Harris. We must really love Harris if that's the case. Maybe take out either Martell or Sergio and then it'll work. 

Honestly, I recognize that we need to get rid of players. I've thought that the two men on the outside were Frye and Jack, and even then that doesn't account for the talent we take back in nor our draft pick this year. If we make a trade of Frye, Jack, Pick, + one more player for a better player who will be in the SL...I understand it, but I don't know if it's fair value. I think we have too many young pieces and won't get really equivalent value back. 


We can't assume Jones will resign, so I think we need to hang onto Martell. 

Next year:

Harris/Blake
Roy/Fernandez
Webster/Jones
LMA/Outlaw
Oden/Pryzbilla

As you see, if that is the case, then Jack, Frye, Sergio, and the pick are gone. Maybe we play Outlaw at the 3 more (his improving shot allows him to do so), making Webster expendable and we play a nine man rotation. 

I understand the situation that KP is in...it's very tricky. If you can make it happen without Webster being a part of it, I think it'll go down from Portland's view point. We still have Koponen as a PG of the future and he's supposed to be a stud too (he has better size for PG as well).


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## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

-Sonny- said:


> This same deal was also mentioned in a NJ blog:
> 
> http://njmg.typepad.com/zzone/2008/01/in-rod-you-shou.html


That says Dallas also would get Darrell Armstrong.:cheers:


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

After seeing that youtube video, I can learn to love Devin Harris...we would be ABSOLUTELY lethal next year. I was a big advocate of Harris coming out of Wisconsin in the 2004 Draft, and I didn't realize he was that good...I like Jack, but he couldn't put together half of that highlight real of Devin's.


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## HispanicCausinPanic (Jul 2, 2005)

I'm glad Travis isn't on that rumor! Man, I wouldn't trade Travis for Harris STRAIGHT UP!


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## RoyToy (May 25, 2007)

Like I said earlier Harris' defense would be great to have against Chris Paul and Deron Williams.


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

MAS RipCity said:


> After seeing that youtube video, I can learn to love Devin Harris...we would be ABSOLUTELY lethal next year. I was a big advocate of Harris coming out of Wisconsin in the 2004 Draft, and I didn't realize he was that good...I like Jack, but he couldn't put together half of that highlight real of Devin's.


Jack and Sergio can slash but can't finish at the rim half as well as Harris. He's explosive and can also shoot the jumper at a MUCH better clip than either Jack or Sergio. It's a big time upgrade at a very important position.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

I'm glad Outlaw isn't in the trade. That makes it easier to stomach. Also, it's not a terrible idea to trade two PGs for one. We have too many and we need to make room for Rudy. Also, I'm assuming that Bass is a tough guy who can help us rebound. But then I look at his stats and Frye actually outrebounds the guy. I've already grown attached to the guy. I have his freakin bobblehead!


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## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

craigehlo said:


> Jack and Sergio can slash but can't finish at the rim half as well as Harris. He's explosive and can also shoot the jumper at a MUCH better clip than either Jack or Sergio. It's a big time upgrade at a very important position.


I agree it would be a big upgrade Harris and Roy would be fantastic. I still hate the thought of giveing up webster and the first rounder but I also think Bass would be an upgrade at back up PF as well.


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## ROYisR.O.Y. (Apr 1, 2007)

just listening to the quick chat

here are his most likely to be traded or most available guys
1. jack
2. sergio (wow)
3. green


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Channing is a very nice guy and has fallen in love with the city but the fact is, he is too damn inconsistent. When he is not hitting his jumper, he's invisible most of the time, although he has flurries of nice rebounds and and 1's.


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## Darkwebs (May 23, 2006)

This trade still blows.:thumbdown:

I don't like the idea of giving up on Webster already. And I think Frye is better than Bass. We seem to be giving up quite a lot and not getting enough in return.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Okay, I looked at the stats a little more. Yes, they can be deceiving but Blake has a MUCH better assist to turnover ratio. I'm not sure we need Harris.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

Webster is the future! It'll be Drazen Petrovic all over again! He'll blow up in NJ!


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

ZackAddy said:


> Also, I'm assuming that Bass is a tough guy who can help us rebound. But then I look at his stats and Frye actually outrebounds the guy. I've already grown attached to the guy. I have his freakin bobblehead!


I saw Bass play a few times for the Mavs Summer League team and he's tough (granted it was Summer League). He's a very different player than Frye or LMA, which is a good thing for this team since it gives us another dimension off the bench. 

I'll still rock my Frye bobblehead even if the dude is traded.


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

Xericx said:


> Webster is the future! It'll be Drazen Petrovic all over again! He'll blow up in NJ!


I'm not sure saying a guy will blow up in NJ like Drazen is a good thing.


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

Why not?


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## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

In the now monstrously large thread about the initially proposed trade (alledgedly), at least a couple people pointed out that one of McMillan's issues with Rodriguez is his speed and that, under Nate, Harris might get the clamps put on thereby making him that much less effective.

I don't see it that way. One of McMillan's issues with Rodriguez is his defense, which is a strength for Harris. Also, Rodriguez has been guilty of trying to thread the needle when he's had other better options. Not only is Harris potentially a better decision maker but, unlike Rodriguez, it seems likely that he'd have a relatively easy time operating without the ball in his hands. It seems likely to me that Harris would bring the ball up, dish it to Roy, and force the opposing SG to defend Roy as the primary playmaker, something most SGs aren't used to. Then at the other end, Harris could really hound opposing PGs, potentially forcing the other team to try running things through _their_ SG -- yet again something he's unlikely to be used to (unless his name is, say, Bryant or Wade). 

Then next season there's bringing Fernandez in off the bench with Roy actually _playing_ the point, forcing other teams to either go with two SGs on the floor or be at a mismatch.

That said, I'm still pretty hesitant to mess with this team. The _only_ reason I'd seriously think about it is that _some_ kind of move will have to be made to bring Fernandez in.


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## PorterIn2004 (Jan 1, 2003)

Xericx said:


> Why not?


Well, for one thing, he died young.


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## ROYisR.O.Y. (Apr 1, 2007)

ZackAddy said:


> Okay, I looked at the stats a little more. Yes, they can be deceiving but Blake has a MUCH better assist to turnover ratio. I'm not sure we need Harris.


o c'mon man! dont be naive harris is >>>>>>>>than blake.
assist to turnover ratio doesnt matter when you barely create for the team
i love blake and think that his on courte presence is good for the team but better than harris? wow


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## Xericx (Oct 29, 2004)

PorterIn2004 said:


> Well, for one thing, he died young.


What that has to do with Drazen being a great player in NJ, who was an allstar and had his jersey retired (as well as being in the BBALL HOF)?


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Xericx said:


> What that has to do with Drazen being a great player in NJ, who was an allstar and had his jersey retired (as well as being in the BBALL HOF)?


He died in a car accident and you said "blow up."


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## DaRizzle (May 22, 2007)

ZackAddy said:


> He died in a car accident and you said "blow up."


He was referring to his game...*Edit

No personal attacks*


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## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

If we got Harris the Blazers would then have one of the top 3 back courts in the NBA.:cheers:


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## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

Really if you think about it, It sounds bad right now becouse the Blazers are giveing up alot but a cupple years down the road this trade could turn out to be vary good. Devin Harris and Brandon Roy could vary well turn out to be the top 3 back courts in the league if not the best. Not to mention really I don't think Jack nor Sergio really fits into this team long term. It's tough giveing up Webster but most of us have our minds made up between Webster and outlaw. Channing Frye and Brandon Bass:thinking:I'll take Bass I think he has a higher seiling level. Last thing is do we really need the first round pick? I don't think so we can always trade for one if needed.:cheers:


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## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

BlazerFan22 said:


> Really if you think about it, It sounds bad right now becouse the Blazers are giveing up alot but a cupple years down the road this trade could turn out to be vary good. Devin Harris and Brandon Roy could vary well turn out to be the top 3 back courts in the league if not the best. Not to mention really I don't think Jack nor Sergio really fits into this team long term. It's tough giveing up Webster but most of us have our minds made up between Webster and outlaw. Channing Frye and Brandon Bass:thinking:I'll take Bass I think he has a higher seiling level. Last thing is do we really need the first round pick? I don't think so we can always trade for one if needed.:cheers:


 future starting five: Harris Roy Outlaw Aldridge and Oden WOW!!


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

DaRizzle said:


> He was referring to his game...Edit


I know he was referring to his game. I was just pointing out the logic of craigehlo and porter's posts.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

At first when I read about this trade i was against it, but I am already coming around. Not sure it would be good, but I would not be upset if it happened. I think our starting five would certainly improve, but our bench would suffer. However, with less congestion, Nate would be able to play the starting five, our best players, for more time without harming overall team chemistry.


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## darkhelmit54 (Jan 23, 2005)

I'd really really rather just trade Outlaw than Martell and Sergio. Webster is soooo young and so much better than Outlaw at the same age and putting up about as good of stats as Roy at the same age (in college). I really think we need to wait longer with him because he is getting a very smart B-ball IQ, cuts to the hole well, and can play within an offense instead of needing to create for himself. when having plays called for him webster is great, he's just still putting it together, and I think long term he works better in the lineup as a 4th option type of shooter than Outlaw does. Sergio still is so young and shows a lot at times, and his relationship with Rudy could be a big deal in bringing him over, plus it'd be nice to have a full throttle "white" team with him and Rudy off the bench and if we trade Sergio I think we might lose Rudy's trust too. I hope this all just conversations. 

with that said, I want Harris really really bad and think he would compliment Roy wonderfully.

I just wish we could get him for Jack - Frye - 1st, or I'd stoop to Jack - Outlaw - 1st as a last resort, however to me at least Sergio, Martell, (impact on Rudy) > Outlaw.


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## HispanicCausinPanic (Jul 2, 2005)

You said Martell is SO much better then Travis? I don't agree. I would much rather hold onto Trav.


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## kressmi (Dec 12, 2007)

BlazerFan22 said:


> To Portland:
> 
> *Devin Harris*Brandon Bass*Nick Fazekas
> 
> ...


I would do this trade in a heartbeat. Honestly Sergio, Jack, Frye are nothing to cry about. Webster I think will be a good player. But Devin Harris is a legimate star. Harris and Roy would make one of the scariest backcourts in the game. Harris is a big time slasher. What I don't understand is why Dallas would make this move. I don't think Kidd is that much better then Harris at this point.


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## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

kressmi said:


> I would do this trade in a heartbeat. Honestly Sergio, Jack, Frye are nothing to cry about. Webster I think will be a good player. But Devin Harris is a legimate star. Harris and Roy would make one of the scariest backcourts in the game. Harris is a big time slasher. What I don't understand is why Dallas would make this move. I don't think Kidd is that much better then Harris at this point.


Yep I fully agree. Webster is the only one I would be down about but I would get over it.:cheers:


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Remember this: Oftentimes with these trades, the team that gets the best player is the team that 'wins' the trade. And if this deal went down, you'd have to think that Portland came out with the best player.


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## deanwoof (Mar 10, 2003)

what would the implications be of trading away sergio though before rudy comes over here? if anything, i think that sergio and rudy are a packaged deal (kind of like juan dixon and steve blake were). 

i am not too fond of harris. never have been but if he were on the team i'd fully support him, even when he flops his 2-3 times a game. 

frye is very expendable as is jack. and like others have pointed out, 2 pgs for 1 is a smart move in the right direction. nate's always been a defense first guy and wants a strong defensive PG and harris does fit that mold and let's face it: blake, sergio, jack and green will never be thought of as defensive PGs. 

whatever pritchard does, i have confidence in him.


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## ProfitByProphet (Jan 31, 2008)

Devin Harris is good, but he isn't that good. If this trade happens Portland's bench goes from being one of the best in the league to one of the worst, and Portland falls to the level of Minnesota, Seattle, and New York. The only good thing that could happen out of this trade is Portland getting another high lottery pick, because there's no way Portland wins another 8 games this year with that roster. But wait, Portland would be trading away that pick as well? This is a stupid trade. 

Do not trade Outlaw.
Do not trade Martell.
Do not trade away a top 5 pick. (Yes, the pick would be a top 5 pick with that roster)
If you do trade one of those, make sure it's only one of those. Not two and no damn way all three.

If Pryz or LA goes down would that mean Mc "Worst player in d-league history" Roberts would be starting? AND YOUR TRADING AWAY THAT PICK?

Portland is deep, but not that deep. If this trade goes down there is almost no way Portland wins another 5 games this season. You just can't win with two very good players, two pretty good players and absolutely nothing else.


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## Five5even (Jun 15, 2007)

ProfitByProphet said:


> Portland is deep, but not that deep. If this trade goes down there is almost no way Portland wins another 5 games this season. You just can't win with two very good players, two pretty good players and absolutely nothing else.


wow, thats a little drastic...

I would have to disagree with your logic on this one...I am willing to bet we win more than 5 games the rest of the season if this trade went through.


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## ROYisR.O.Y. (Apr 1, 2007)

ProfitByProphet said:


> Devin Harris is good, but he isn't that good. If this trade happens Portland's bench goes from being one of the best in the league to one of the worst, and Portland falls to the level of Minnesota, Seattle, and New York. The only good thing that could happen out of this trade is Portland getting another high lottery pick, because there's no way Portland wins another 8 games this year with that roster. But wait, Portland would be trading away that pick as well? This is a stupid trade.
> 
> Do not trade Outlaw.
> Do not trade Martell.
> ...


ok man ill take the over how much can i bet?


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=I9_IGn09Ax0

I guess I didn't totally understand Devin's game until I saw this. Granted, everyone's highlight reel looks good but I had no idea he could dunk like that. Hmmmmm....

I suppose if he grows into one of the top PGs in the league, it could be Chris Paul all over again.

But I don't want the trade.


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## GrandpaBlaze (Jul 11, 2004)

After giving it thought, I do this deal. 

I was initially hesitant giving up so much for seemingly so little but after further consideration, I do it.

Yesterday I posted that I saw two big weaknesses in the Blazers, PG (I love Blake and he is solid, but not what I consider championship caliber) and a backup PF willing to bang. I'm not familiar with Bass but, if he is, as some here have asserted, more of a banger, it addresses those two areas.

We have a glut at PG - none of which distinguish themselves as "the future". We lose Jack, which I'm totally ok with, and Sergio who although he shows flashes, doesn't seem to be a consistent threat. I think perhaps he may do better elsewhere but not necessarily here. I would wish him the best.

The key cog that seems to get most people in this trade is Webster. I love Webster and think he will be a pretty good player. However, at this time I view Martell and Jones as largely interchangeable (albeit, Martell probably has a higher ceiling), but with Jones and Outlaw to man the SF, I'm not worried about losing out at that position.

The strengthens two key areas while not weakening any area. Additionally, it frees up roster space for our incoming players next year.

That's it. I done bought the farm. Sold.

Next rumor?

Gramps...


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## Tortimer (Jun 4, 2007)

I like this trade a lot better now without giving up Outlaw. I watched Bass yesterday and he looked pretty good to me. I know it was only one game but he is possibly the banger we need off the bench. I really doubt NJ would do this trade from what I have been reading.


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## BuckW4GM (Nov 2, 2005)

do it pritchard! w/o outlaw, i'm all for this trade.


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## Resume (Jul 17, 2007)

deanwoof said:


> what would the implications be of trading away sergio though before rudy comes over here? if anything, i think that *sergio and rudy are a packaged deal (kind of like juan dixon and steve blake were)*.


yeah and then we split them up.
Viktor Krappa and Serge Monia (whatever his name is) was supposed to be a package... and we split them up.

There are no packages in the NBA. Now about the deal. I have to type out the roster and look at it to really feel it.

Harris\Blake\Green - 100% confident in Harris and Blake.
Roy\Rudy - 1000000000% Confident in Roy.
Outlaw\Jones - Monster youngster coming up and the best 3pt. shooter in the league. I'm cool with that.
LMA\Bass\McBob - One offensive stud, one defensive stud, one decent prospect. I'm cool with that.
Oden\Pryz\Fazekas - 1 word. Oden. We know Pryz will play too. One 4 year college player prospect. 

I am pretty cool with that lineup... and there are no log jams. There are clear cut roles for starters and clear expectations for the backups. 

Honestly... I think this is a great deal for us. It would be really REALLY hard to give up Martell. But at least we keep Outlaw.


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## Resume (Jul 17, 2007)

Oh and by the way... this is the ONLY trade out of all the rumors that works on the trade machines. (except for Devean George trade exception)

http://realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=4456637


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## crowTrobot (Jun 24, 2005)

i don't think bass is anything special, at best a wash for frye. fazekas is garbage.

so it's martell, sergio, jack, + likely 12-14 lottery pick for harris (assuming the second 1st round pick mentioned is from dallas and not ours in a later year).

i think that's a bit too much. the only reason we do this is if jones has already agreed in principal to an extension AND we have 100% confidence rudy is coming over. otherwise that would leave us with a very short bench talent-wise next year.


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## Resume (Jul 17, 2007)

crowTrobot said:


> i don't think bass is anything special, at best a wash for frye. fazekas is garbage.


I don't think Fazekas is garbage... and no one has seen him play enough to say so.
He was a great college player and could one day be a great backup PF\C
I am not saying he will start for a championship team, but he isn't garbage.

And Bass is a great young defender on the rise. Let him rise with us!


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## crowTrobot (Jun 24, 2005)

Resume said:


> I don't think Fazekas is garbage...


i posted that because people on dallas boards weren't valuing him at all, but i think you might be right - he's doing a lot better than mcbob in the D league:

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=nick_fazekas


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

Okay, the jig is up. Pritchard has clearly been lying to us all along by saying he's not interested in doing any trades. There simply would not be all these rumors flying around otherwise.

Pritchard is a very good GM, but it pisses me off the way he lies outright to the fan base. He was caught in a lie last season (which he admitted to), and it looks like he's doing it again. Just the other day he said he had no idea how the first Dallas/NJ/Portland rumor got started, because he hadn't talked to anybody about such a deal. I call BS.

Pritchard is starting to look very sleazy to me, and I personally wouldn't trust anything he says. I know, I know, some are going to say it's part of his job to deny trade talks, but when the trade actually happens it makes him look like a liar and it pisses off the players who were given assurances they were not on the block.


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

BlazerFan22 said:


> To Portland:
> 
> *Devin Harris*Brandon Bass*Nick Fazekas
> 
> ...


And I thought fans came up with ridiculous trades. There is no way in this or any other universe that Kevin Pritchard does that deal as reported. It's not even worth discussing. He'll get a deal favorable to us, without doing a complete face lift on the team, or he will do no deal at all. Don't sweat it.

Having said that, I'd love to have Harris and Bass, for a couple of bench players, an IR type guy, and a couple of draft picks.


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## BBert (Dec 30, 2004)

Talkhard, it's part of his job to deny trade talks. :biggrin:


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## MARIS61 (Apr 28, 2003)

Nothing we want in this trade.

Nothing at all.

Please remove our name from your rumor list.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

HispanicCausinPanic said:


> I'm glad Travis isn't on that rumor! Man, I wouldn't trade Travis for Harris STRAIGHT UP!



That is a tough one, I might do that deal, Harris is well on his way to becoming a top tier PG. Outlaw is a fun player, but I see him more as a off the bench spark player, while Harris is a starting PG, something we really need for the long haul.


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## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

Talkhard said:


> Okay, the jig is up. Pritchard has clearly been lying to us all along by saying he's not interested in doing any trades. There simply would not be all these rumors flying around otherwise.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> You mean like those rumors about Barack Obama being a secret Muslim? Obviously, if a rumor is repeated often enough it must be true and anyone who denies it is lying.


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## crowTrobot (Jun 24, 2005)

BBert said:


> And I thought fans came up with ridiculous trades. There is no way in this or any other universe that Kevin Pritchard does that deal as reported. It's not even worth discussing. He'll get a deal favorable to us, without doing a complete face lift on the team, or he will do no deal at all. Don't sweat it.



from a roster perspective this is better than the outlaw deal. martell for harris is a no-brainer - outlaw/jones both need more PT anyway. jack was on the way out after this season no matter what and doesn't have much value at this point. frye for bass is a wash. 

just a question of whether sergio + low lottery pick is worth getting the deal done. given that even if he improves sergio would never get much PT here as long as harris is healthy, i'm starting to warm up to the idea that it would be worth it.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

Talkhard said:


> Okay, the jig is up. Pritchard has clearly been lying to us all along by saying he's not interested in doing any trades. There simply would not be all these rumors flying around otherwise.
> 
> Pritchard is a very good GM, but it pisses me off the way he lies outright to the fan base. He was caught in a lie last season (which he admitted to), and it looks like he's doing it again. Just the other day he said he had no idea how the first Dallas/NJ/Portland rumor got started, because he hadn't talked to anybody about such a deal. I call BS.
> 
> Pritchard is starting to look very sleazy to me, and I personally wouldn't trust anything he says. I know, I know, some are going to say it's part of his job to deny trade talks, but when the trade actually happens it makes him look like a liar and it pisses off the players who were given assurances they were not on the block.


Actually he never said he was not interested in doing any trades. He just said he wasn't seeking any trades. GM's always listen to proposals, are you naive enough to think that if they get a call to another GM they have call blocking on or something? Of course they listen, it is their job. If they didn't listen, they should be fired.

Secondly, these rumors can come from anywhere. They may have approached Portland about a deal, slipped what they threw out there to the press, and voila, you have a trade rumor which Portland may or may not have considered seriously, and may or may not have continued talks.


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

hasoos said:


> Actually he never said he was not interested in doing any trades. He just said he wasn't seeking any trades.


Wrong. On the game on ESPN the other night the announcers said that Pritchard had told them he was mystified by the talk of a NJ/Dallas/Portland deal because he hadn't talked to anyone about such a trade.


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## BlazerDog (Jul 18, 2004)

HOWIE said:


> That is a tough one, I might do that deal, Harris is well on his way to becoming a top tier PG. Outlaw is a fun player, but I see him more as a off the bench spark player, while Harris is a starting PG, something we really need for the long haul.


I'd be worried about upsetting Roy. He was just quoted by Quick as saying the teammate he's closest to is Travis.

Plus Harris may not like bringing the ball up the floor for Roy. We've all heard that Roy wants the ball in his hands. That could cause friction.


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## Mr. Chuck Taylor (Aug 2, 2004)

This version makes me think that there actually is a chance of it happening. Trading Outlaw didn't pass the smell test. 

I already think Jack and Sergio are expendable, so if we add Harris, I wouldn't miss them at all. Frye vs. Bass isn't a deal breaker for me, so it comes down to Martell. I would hate to trade Martell and have him take off in a year or two, but if this offer is on the table, you have to worry about the same thing happening with Harris if you pass on him. 

The things I'm concerned about are: does Brandon still run the point at the end of the game? If so, is Harris still valuable enough to be in at the off guard? What happens next year when Rudy comes over? Is Harris worth losing any wiggle room to sign a free agent in a year and a half?

In the end, I think this deal would answer as many questions as it poses: we consolidate the roster, we finally have a very good point guard, we get Outlaw the minutes he deserves, and we solidify our perimeter defense. I'd pull the trigger.


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## crowTrobot (Jun 24, 2005)

Mr. Chuck Taylor said:


> This version makes me think that there Is Harris worth losing any wiggle room to sign a free agent in a year and a half?



we were gonna lose that anyway if we want to keep jones, which i assume we do if we're trading martell.


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## Resume (Jul 17, 2007)

Mr. Chuck Taylor said:


> The things I'm concerned about are: does Brandon still run the point at the end of the game? If so, is Harris still valuable enough to be in at the off guard? What happens next year when Rudy comes over? Is Harris worth losing any wiggle room to sign a free agent in a year and a half?


I say yes, Brandon still takes the PG spot in the 4th quarter and I also think that Harris would prefer to be the 2 guard in the 4th quarter. He likes to drive and dunk and make highlight moves.

I think this would work great!

About Rudy... eventually I bet the PG and SG duties will be split up between Rudy, Harris and Roy. Until Rudy proves himself and earns big minutes... he gets regular backup minutes.

There are enough minutes at the 1 and 2 for 3 players. (IMO)


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## crowTrobot (Jun 24, 2005)

the reason dallas wants kidd in the first place is that harris is more of a scoring PG than a distributer. no reason to think he would be bothered by roy running the offense at crunch time.


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## Mr. Chuck Taylor (Aug 2, 2004)

crowTrobot said:


> we were gonna lose that anyway if we want to keep jones, which i assume we do if we're trading martell.


Well if we trade Martell for Harris, we're gonna lose any cap room regardless of what we do with Jones. I don't see us having any cap room unless we renounce everyone (yuk), trade Joel (yuk), or trade Miles (fat chance).


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## crowTrobot (Jun 24, 2005)

Mr. Chuck Taylor said:


> Well if we trade Martell for Harris, we're gonna lose any cap room regardless of what we do with Jones. I don't see us having any cap room unless we renounce everyone (yuk), trade Joel (yuk), or trade Miles (fat chance).



that's my point. we probably weren't planning on having cap room anyway so harris' contract is not an issue.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

When it comes to this trade, I just have faith in management to make the right move, they have been doing pretty good so far. 

As for evaluating the trade, I look at it this way:

Devin Harris - Better than all the PG on this team by far. Young. Very competitive. Plays with an attitude, in fact, he kind of plays angry, and I like that. Very fast, one of the few guys that defend Tony Parker in the league.

Brandon Bass - Undersized power forward, banger, good touch on shooting, young. Turns the ball over, not comfortable at NBA level yet, panics sometimes. 

Would I make the trade? That is questionable. I think NJ needs to sweeten the pot with Shawn Williams. Otherwise, I think I would turn it down. 

Also, a certain side of me wants to torpedo NJ. They screwed the Blazers over several years ago with the Abdur Rahim trade. A certain part of me just wants to leave them stuck, and going down the gutter without a hope.


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## crowTrobot (Jun 24, 2005)

hasoos said:


> I think NJ needs to sweeten the pot with Shawn Williams.


it's sean williams, and they're moving kidd now to get a head start on rebuilding - trading their best young player would defeat the whole purpose.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

Talkhard said:


> Wrong. On the game on ESPN the other night the announcers said that Pritchard had told them he was mystified by the talk of a NJ/Dallas/Portland deal because he hadn't talked to anyone about such a trade.



Well you know what? Pritchard interviews in more than one place. In different interviews he gives different answers. In the Oregonian last week, he said he wasn't seeking any trades. In other interviews, he has said when GM's calls, he listens. Amazing, the interview you watches does not preside over what he does for the rest of his career.


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## Mr. Chuck Taylor (Aug 2, 2004)

crowTrobot said:


> that's my point. we probably weren't planning on having cap room anyway so harris' contract is not an issue.


Everything Pritchard says leads me to believe he thinks we will have room. But I don't really see how he's going to do it. Maybe he's got something up his sleeve. Acquiring Harris eliminates the possibility, even if its a slim one.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

crowTrobot said:


> it's sean williams, and they're moving kidd now to get a head start on rebuilding - trading their best young player would defeat the whole purpose.


Oooh its Sean Williams. Thanks for taking the time to point out something that doesn't really matter. Mark it down in the chronicles of the basketball boards I mispelled somebodies name. I am sure somebody will look it up in the future like it matters. 


I could care less if it suits their purposes, I want the Blazers to improve and get a good deal, screw the Nets.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

Isn't Williams the guy that got in all the trouble in Boston College? If so, I doubt KP would bring him here.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

Resume said:


> Harris\Blake\Green - 100% confident in Harris and Blake.
> Roy\Rudy - 1000000000% Confident in Roy.
> Outlaw\Jones - Monster youngster coming up and the best 3pt. shooter in the league. I'm cool with that.
> LMA\Bass\McBob - One offensive stud, one defensive stud, one decent prospect. I'm cool with that.
> Oden\Pryz\Fazekas - 1 word. Oden. We know Pryz will play too. One 4 year college player prospect.


I could definitely get behind that lineup. I hated the idea of giving up Outlaw, but I can live with losing Webster. I was skeptical of that Harris could fit in with our roster and style of play, but after watching that youtube clip I gotta admit I'd love to have a point guard who can dunk. And with Harris' ability to defend, I find it hard to imagine Nate would keep him on the same short leash he keeps Sergio. 

Harris isn't a terribly scary perimeter shooter, but Roy, Outlaw, Blake, even Przybilla have improved their shot under our coaching staff. 

I don't know that our bench production really drops off much next year. Przybilla and Blake are as good a backup as you'll find for their positions, Jones gives you fantastic shooting, and Fernandez is you primary scorer off the bench. 

That's a 9 man rotation of Harris, Roy, Outlaw, Aldridge, and Oden, with Przybilla, Blake, Jones and Fernandez coming off the bench. Sign me up.


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## Masbee (Dec 31, 2002)

BlazerFan22 said:


> To Portland:
> 
> *Devin Harris*Brandon Bass*Nick Fazekas
> 
> ...


One other element that has not yet been mentioned in this thread:

Blazer who can be extended this summer: Channing Frye.

Blazer who can be exteded this summer: Jarret Jack.

Blazer who can be extended this summer: Martell Webster.

Blazer who expects to be extended this summer and will make a stink if not (imo): Martell Webster.

Blazer who expects to be paid starter money even though is very marginal at this point (imo): Martell Webster.

As you can see, I expect Martell, based on his past comments, to be a contract problem. As I see it, we either pay him above market salary, or he will be upset.

So, we have Webster, our weakest starter, and a looming contract problem, Frye, our most inconsistent rotation big, and Jack, the guard everyone can see is the square peg. Add Sergio, who gets the fewest minutes, and you have what I consider the biggest underachievers on the team. 

Roy stepped up - big time. Aldridge stepped up. Travis stepped up. Jones stepped up once back from injury. Blake stepped up and earned back the starting job. Joel came back this season strong. Webster did win the starting spot, but didn't have to compete with Jones, and wasn't actually better than Outlaw, just was a decision by coaches to make Travis the #1 option of the white unit instead of the #3 opiton of the black unit.

From the Blazers perspective, they are giving up a lot of players, yes, but the weakest 4 players of the rotation (imo). That said, these are 4 contributors to a winning team, who are still young. They have positive value in trade talks. Now you "throw in" a pick??

This could be a good trade as listed above, but it sure doesn't seem like great deal for the Blazers. You would think they could do better. Same with the Mavs. Sure seems like they give a lot to get Kidd. Look at what NJ gets for Kidd. No all-star coming back, but they get a lot of nice pieces. Isn't the team shipping out the Hall of Famer supposed to get the short end of the stick?

I think Dallas and the Blazers are being too generous to NJ. NJ shouldn't expect 1 35 year old microfractured, big contract all-star who has publicly demanded a trade to bring them back so many decent players.


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## SLAM (Jan 1, 2003)

mook said:


> That's a 9 man rotation of Harris, Roy, Outlaw, Aldridge, and Oden, with Przybilla, Blake, Jones and Fernandez coming off the bench. Sign me up.


Don't forget Miles. I know folks love to hate him, but he may still make a decent back-up PF and SF on a good team. Better than Bass, McRoberts options. If Outlaw takes the PF minutes off the bench, Miles could fill in behind Jones, or vice versa.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

Masbee said:


> From the Blazers perspective, they are giving up a lot of players, yes, but the weakest 4 players of the rotation (imo). That said, these are 4 contributors to a winning team, who are still young. They have positive value in trade talks. Now you "throw in" a pick??


I agree with your post even if I would hate to lose Jack (I think his leadership is underrated), Martell (could be a good player) and Sergio (highest potential of these). Frye is also a good player and a nice guy.

However, if you make the pick lottery protected or available next year - I am not that worried about it. With Rudy, Kopo and Grocery boy in the wings, more young ones are not that important for this team...


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## blzr610 (May 24, 2006)

If Sergio is removed from that proposal and Green and our 2008 first and second rounders are added, that would make me get behind it. Remember- there's no guarantee that Rudy will come over next year, especially if Sergio is no longer a Blazer. He could be paid more by resigning with his old team, and a pissed off Sergio could tell him to do just that.


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## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

blzr610 said:


> If Sergio is removed from that proposal and Green and our 2008 first and second rounders are added, that would make me get behind it. Remember- there's no guarantee that Rudy will come over next year, especially if Sergio is no longer a Blazer. He could be paid more by resigning with his old team, and a pissed off Sergio could tell him to do just that.


Nor Sergio or jack fits this system in the long run though.:cheers:


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## Tortimer (Jun 4, 2007)

blzr610 said:


> If Sergio is removed from that proposal and Green and our 2008 first and second rounders are added, that would make me get behind it. Remember- there's no guarantee that Rudy will come over next year, especially if Sergio is no longer a Blazer. He could be paid more by resigning with his old team, and a pissed off Sergio could tell him to do just that.


I doubt Sergio would be that upset going to Dallas and have a chance to win a championship. He would probably play more minutes behind Kidd in Dallas then he does in Portland.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

I think Sergio would ease Rudy's arrival here, but I doubt Rudy will decide to lose his dream of playing in the NBA because Sergio is not here...


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## crowTrobot (Jun 24, 2005)

hasoos said:


> Oooh its Sean Williams. Thanks for taking the time to point out something that doesn't really matter. Mark it down in the chronicles of the basketball boards I mispelled somebodies name. I am sure somebody will look it up in the future like it matters.


you're welcome. just trying to be helpful : )




> I could care less if it suits their purposes, I want the Blazers to improve and get a good deal, screw the Nets.


yeah and screw the cavs. they should just trade us lebron for jack and lafrentz. who cares if it suits their purposes.


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

Masbee said:


> Blazer who expects to be paid starter money even though is very marginal at this point (imo): Martell Webster.


I think that's an interesting point. He really is proving that he's not the long-term solution at the SF spot with his play after the first month of the season. He's worth less than TO's contract and I have a feeling he might feel slighted by that offer.


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## Resume (Jul 17, 2007)

hasoos said:


> Oooh its Sean Williams. Thanks for taking the time to point out something that doesn't really matter. Mark it down in the chronicles of the basketball boards I mispelled somebodies name. I am sure somebody will look it up in the future like it matters.
> 
> 
> I could care less if it suits their purposes, I want the Blazers to improve and get a good deal, screw the Nets.


You will never be good in business when you let your emotions get in the way.


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## Resume (Jul 17, 2007)

SLAM said:


> Don't forget Miles. I know folks love to hate him, but he may still make a decent back-up PF and SF on a good team. Better than Bass, McRoberts options. If Outlaw takes the PF minutes off the bench, Miles could fill in behind Jones, or vice versa.


I think you are underestimating Bass. He is a great rebound\defend first type guy who wont look to shoot a lot. Miles DEF is not better then Bass.


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## Resume (Jul 17, 2007)

blzr610 said:


> Remember- there's no guarantee that Rudy will come over next year, especially if Sergio is no longer a Blazer. He could be paid more by resigning with his old team, and a pissed off Sergio could tell him to do just that.


You are absolutely right there. But I still think we take Harris even if we don't get Rudy by pissing him off by trading Sergio.

I wish they would take Green instead of Sergio!!!


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

Miscellaneous Thoughts:

Why Would Dallas Want Kidd More Than Harris (The David Thorpe Question)?
Suggested answer: part of it is to stop anyone ELSE getting Kidd, especially the Lakers. Also, Kidd just IS a better distributor, and they would still have Terry for the clutch scoring (who could play alongside Kidd, who is strong enough to defend SGs).

Why Would Portland Give Up Good Young Players?
Suggested answer: already been given: Harris is very good, particularly at perimeter defense, which is a team weakness. Plus Martell will want more money than he deserves, and Jack, while a GREAT character guy, just is pretty average.

Why Wouldn't New Jersey Want Harris?
Suggested answer: because to GET him, they'd be dealing directly with Dallas, and they can't get a trade to work that doesn't burden them with crap. Plus he's not a great distributor, and so wouldn't really "replace" Kidd, even though he plays the same position. And Harris's value is overrated by the various numbers because of his teammates, and Kidd's is undervalued for the same reason. And any third team would only get involved if THEY get Harris.

Is This Really Likely To Happen?
No - because 99% of trade rumors never happen. But that doesn't mean all three parties aren't seriously considering it. I say Dallas is the most likely to get cold feet. If some other team made a serious pitch for Kidd, it might get them to jump.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

Dallas wants to win a title now. Their whole team is gettin' older, with Kidd they are instant title contenders that is what they are thinkin'.

But Webster, Sergio, Jack, Frye and a 1st for Harris and Bass? geez... Keep Martell and i'm on board for sure. 

Harris is the *final piece* i've been talkin' about that we need. If we keep Webster and add 2 second round picks and give up Sergio, Jack, Frye, 1st, 2 seconds and get Harris and Bass i'm on board 100%.


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## Resume (Jul 17, 2007)

MrJayremmie said:


> Dallas wants to win a title now. Their whole team is gettin' older, with Kidd they are instant title contenders that is what they are thinkin'.
> 
> But Webster, Sergio, Jack, Frye and a 1st for Harris and Bass? geez... Keep Martell and i'm on board for sure.
> 
> Harris is the *final piece* i've been talkin' about that we need. If we keep Webster and add 2 second round picks and give up Sergio, Jack, Frye, 1st, 2 seconds and get Harris and Bass i'm on board 100%.


That wont happen. Too little. Webster is the deal breaker.


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## Resume (Jul 17, 2007)

MrJayremmie said:


> Dallas wants to win a title now. Their whole team is gettin' older, with Kidd they are instant title contenders that is what they are thinkin'.
> 
> But Webster, Sergio, Jack, Frye and a 1st for Harris and Bass? geez... Keep Martell and i'm on board for sure.
> 
> Harris is the *final piece* i've been talkin' about that we need. If we keep Webster and add 2 second round picks and give up Sergio, Jack, Frye, 1st, 2 seconds and get Harris and Bass i'm on board 100%.


That wont happen. Too little. Webster is the deal breaker.


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## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

Masbee said:


> One other element that has not yet been mentioned in this thread:
> 
> Blazer who can be extended this summer: Channing Frye.
> 
> ...


Really good post, Masbee. I hadn't thought about Webster's coming contract extension, but history has shown that contract extensions have killed our ability to maneuver more than anything else. Overpaying extensions on Stoudamire, Anderson, Ratliff, Miles, Randolph and others ruined our ability to ever trade them for similar talent. Meanwhile, you just know we could trade Outlaw or Przybilla for equal or better value today, tomorrow, or a year from now, because we re-signed them at bargain prices. 

Webster isn't necessarily going to look to get a Damon Stoudamire-like salary, but he'll be looking for a lot more than he's worth. I can see a good argument for nipping this potential problem in the bud right now. 



> I think Dallas and the Blazers are being too generous to NJ. NJ shouldn't expect 1 35 year old microfractured, big contract all-star who has publicly demanded a trade to bring them back so many decent players.


I don't know for sure about that. Let's compare the results to firesales for other recent stars: 

• Seattle got the #6 pick in a very deep draft for Ray Allen. 
• the Lakers got Caron Butler and Lamar Odom for Shaq. 
• Sixers got squat for Iverson. 
• Portland got squat for Sheed. 
• Portland got Frye & Fernandez for Randolph. 
• Minnesota got Al Jefferson for Garnett. 

Obviously, there are a huge number of variables associated with these deals I don't mention. Iverson, Shaq and Garnett forced their way out, while the other guys were pushed out. 

So even if you just look at the Iverson, Shaq and Garnett deals, I'd say it was better than the Iverson deal and worse than the Shaq deal. 

Given that Kidd is probably more valuable than Iverson and less valuable than Shaq at the time, maybe this deal is about right.


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## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

I love the fact ther Rudy is comeing to the Blazers he will make a great 6th man but seriously I don't want a player comeing to the Blazers from overseas just to do it becouse of one player. This whole lets keep Sergio for Rudy next year is BS. Bottom line is Harris is better than both Sergio and Jack and Harris and Roy make a fantastic backcourt.:cheers:


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

crowTrobot said:


> i don't think bass is anything special, at best a wash for frye. fazekas is garbage.
> 
> so it's martell, sergio, jack, + likely 12-14 lottery pick for harris (assuming the second 1st round pick mentioned is from dallas and not ours in a later year).


My thoughts _exactly._

We've seen Outlaw's growth and I think we'll see the same growth in Martell and Sergio, especially Webster. I know he's an upgrade but I just think it's too much to give up. I don't think it would help chemistry at all and would shake the entire team. 

It actually kind of pisses me off that Pritchard feels the need to tinker right now... I don't think it's a coincidence that the teams slump on the court coincides with all these rumors.


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## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

ProZach said:


> My thoughts _exactly._
> 
> We've seen Outlaw's growth and I think we'll see the same growth in Martell and Sergio, especially Webster. I know he's an upgrade but I just think it's too much to give up. I don't think it would help chemistry at all and would shake the entire team.
> 
> It actually kind of pisses me off that Pritchard feels the need to tinker right now... I don't think it's a coincidence that the teams slump on the court coincides with all these rumors.


Sergio is always going to be a liability on the defencive end. I don't think he will ever play defence at a top level.


:cheers:


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

BlazerFan22 said:


> Sergio is always going to be a liability on the defencive end. I don't think he will ever play defence at a top level.
> 
> 
> :cheers:


I agree, the main reason I don't really want to do it is Webster. I still think he could be better than Outlaw in some ways. If we could get a little more back, maybe.


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## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

Well as much as I like Webster I would do this trade. After thinking about it for awhile I think this trade would greatly pay off in the long run. Brandon Bass has a higher seiling level then Frye he's also a banger with toughness. I know I have said this already but Roy and Harris would just be awsome you put that with a front court of Oden and Aldridge with assuming Outlaw you got yourself a team.:cheers:


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

BlazerFan22 said:


> Well as much as I like Webster I would do this trade. After thinking about it for awhile I think this trade would greatly pay off in the long run. Brandon Bass has a higher seiling level then Frye he's also a banger with toughness. I know I have said this already but Roy and Harris would just be awsome you put that with a front court of Oden and Aldridge with assuming Outlaw you got yourself a team.:cheers:


I would do this as well, but keep Outlaw in the white unit and bring James Jones as a starter. Next year you will get a tough as nails black unit with Harris/Roy/Jones/Aldridge/Oden and when they go out and the opponent is breathing with relief you bring white unit with Blake/Rudy/Outlaw/Bass/Joel to pound you further.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> I would do this as well, but keep Outlaw in the white unit and bring James Jones as a starter. Next year you will get a tough as nails black unit with Harris/Roy/Jones/Aldridge/Oden and when they go out and the opponent is breathing with relief you bring white unit with Blake/Rudy/Outlaw/Bass/Joel to pound you further


pretty much exactly what i think. I think Martell will want starter minutes, and starter money, but i think either Jones, Outlaw or Fernandez will out play him for that starter spot in a year or 2. He won't be a starter on our team if we plan on being a dynasty, we really need a more consistant player, who plays smart, good defense, and can shoot, who shows up every day, has a great attitude, works hard, and won't complain. That being said, i really wanna keep webster. I'd give up Frye if we get Bass in return. JAck is a given, a first from us is also. I'm thinkin' KP will put this deal on the table, take it or leave it, it will be up to the Nets, Dallas will take it, they need Kidd, specially with LA makin' a move.

Jack, Sergio, Frye, 1st round pick for Harris and Bass. Dallas Gets Kidd. NJ gets Jack, Sergio, Frye, 2 1sts, Stackhouse, and George. Lots of young talent, expiring contracts, and picks. 

We need to do something to get rid of our 12+ deep team anyway, i'd rather get somethin' back for our players than just letting them walk and gettin' nothing in return. Frye will want starter money for sure, Jack wants starter minutes, Sergio is a great guy, but if we can bring in Harris and have Blake back him up, with Roy also able to play the point, we are set for 10+ years. This deal hopefully will happen.


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

Also for those who think Bass is what we need - Frye actually is a better rebounder, and in less minutes.


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## magnifier (Jul 2, 2003)

Sounds like a decent deal. No way I give up Outlaw and Webster together though. I would have to be Webster or Jones, Sergio, Jack, Frye and our first rounder for Harris and Bass.


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

ProZach said:


> Also for those who think Bass is what we need - Frye actually is a better rebounder, and in less minutes.


I am not sure that Bass is what we need, but if we need to sacrifice Frye for him to get Harris, he is worth a shot. Don't forget we also got Freeland in the pipe.


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## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

andalusian said:


> I am not sure that Bass is what we need, but if we need to sacrifice Frye for him to get Harris, he is worth a shot. Don't forget we also got Freeland in the pipe.


Okay, but we're already sacrificing _three other guys_ as well for Harris. I mean, this isn't an all-star we're getting in return. When is too much, too much?


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

Maybe this has already been discussed somewhere in this thread, but it seems to me that what this trade really would amount to is swapping the much-discussed cap space in 2009 for Devon Harris now. If we were going to have enough cap space to make a major FA signing in 2009, we would have had to release most or all of the guys who are being discussed as included in this trade. So, to me the question is, is Harris better than whatever FA that KP could realistically have expected to obtain in the Summer of 2009?


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## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

ProZach said:


> Okay, but we're already sacrificing _three other guys_ as well for Harris. I mean, this isn't an all-star we're getting in return. When is too much, too much?


You will not be able to keep all these guys anyway. A team can not run a 12 man rotation. Some of them need to go if we want to have the 10 man rotation and chemistry and all that good stuff.

The reality is that Portland has too many good guys that will require minutes next year or something will happen.

I am not saying that Harris by himself, when you do not consider minutes and chemistry and all that kind of stuff is worth all these guys. I am saying however that this could be a way to balance the roster, get a coveted perimeter stopper, open minutes for Outlaw and Rudy and keep the rotation guys on the team happy.


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## JFizzleRaider (Nov 1, 2004)

ProZach said:


> Okay, but we're already sacrificing _three other guys_ as well for Harris. I mean, this isn't an all-star we're getting in return. When is too much, too much?


2 of those guys are PG's.

Sergio and Jack are expendable (especially Jack)

Harris is much better than either of those guys

There has to be a decision made between Jones and Webster anyways since there games are similar, I pick Jones personally and acquiring a young up and coming PG who's a lockdown defender only makes it easier


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## JFizzleRaider (Nov 1, 2004)

e_blazer1 said:


> Maybe this has already been discussed somewhere in this thread, but it seems to me that what this trade really would amount to is swapping the much-discussed cap space in 2009 for Devon Harris now. If we were going to have enough cap space to make a major FA signing in 2009, we would have had to release most or all of the guys who are being discussed as included in this trade. So, to me the question is, is Harris better than whatever FA that KP could realistically have expected to obtain in the Summer of 2009?


Yes, I believe so 

We would have had no shot at Paul or William, and this team needs a young PG, Harris is the best option we have and hes quite good


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## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

I know that we have no shot at Paul or Williams, but those aren't the only FAs available that year. Also, this move would pretty much end the notion of Brandon bein our eventual PG, with Rudy playing the 2. I'm not saying that it still isn't a good idea, just that if the rumor is real, it's not an easy decision for KP to make...especially when it means dumping so many guys who have been a big part of this team's unexpected success this season. Frankly, I don't know Harris's game well enough to have a valid opinion on whether this is a move we should make. I do think that a move of this magnitude would be likely to throw the team into enough of a spin to end any shot at playoffs this season.


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## ehizzy3 (Jun 12, 2006)

if we kept our first i would do this easily..not sure if our first is included


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

:clap2:


ehizzy3 said:


> if we kept our first i would do this easily..not sure if our first is included


If the pick is top 3 protected, I would do this deal. If the pick is not top 3 protected, I would still most likely go through with the pick because I highly doubt the Blazers would luck into a top 3 pick. The Blazers may not make the playoffs, but they would still likely be 12th-14th least likely to win at the lotto, and a 1% chance at a top 3 pick is not worth killing a deal over.


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## Resume (Jul 17, 2007)

ProZach said:


> Okay, but we're already sacrificing _three other guys_ as well for Harris. I mean, this isn't an all-star we're getting in return. When is too much, too much?


He will be an allstar someday. bet that. soon...


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

e_blazer1 said:


> I know that we have no shot at Paul or Williams, but those aren't the only FAs available that year.


Here's an article with all the major free agents for the next few years:

http://www.stopmikelupica.com/2007/05/zach_randolph_the_most_untrade.php

With almost a zero chance at Paul or Williams, I don't see a lot of other young PGs on this list. There's some great players, but Harris will be cheaper and younger than other FA options like Andre Miller and Bibby.


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## ehizzy3 (Jun 12, 2006)

craigehlo said:


> Here's an article with all the major free agents for the next few years:
> 
> http://www.stopmikelupica.com/2007/05/zach_randolph_the_most_untrade.php
> 
> With almost a zero chance at Paul or Williams, I don't see a lot of other young PGs on this list. There's some great players, but Harris will be cheaper and younger than other FA options like Andre Miller and Bibby.


joe johnson and broy could share the pg duties...


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## Draco (Jun 28, 2003)

The more I think about this rumor the more I like it. The loss of Sergio, Jack and Frye is the cost of consolidating this roster. I can't see Sergio ever thriving on our team, he needs to be on a team where he can have the ball in his hands and run an offense, like Jason Williams did his first couple years in Sacramento. Sergio will never get a chance to do that here with Roy controlling the ball 35 mpg and the other options (Oden/LMA/TO) getting their touches.

The two big assets we are giving up are the pick and Webster. Masbee made some great points about difficulty in resigning Webster, I don't want to overpay him and it would be better to trade him then have to let him walk as a FA. Jones as the starter and TO as the 6th man might even make the team better.

This looks like the perfect consolidation move we have been talking about for the last year, it'll clear up roster spots while shortening our rotation. We arn't really giving up any player that you couldn't just sign for the MLE, which is exactly what you want in this type of trade. This trade would provide a very significant upgrade at the PG position, our weakest long-term position.

Previously I had been thinking that trading our draft pick would be a great move as we don't need any more young prospects. I was thinking more along the lines of trading it for future pick as we'll only be getting late 1st rounders down the road and could use prospects at that time more than now. But if we do this trade that changes our outlook, we ship out 4 prospects causing the pick to become much more useful for us. I'd like to hang onto it, or at least send a 2009/10 pick instead of the '08 pick. I'd hate to do this trade, have the team get into a little funk as a result and cause our pick to become fairly valuable.

But if the pick is the deal breaker, I probably still do the trade.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

in the next 2 years Harris will be an all star, along with Oden and Aldridge, we will have 4 all-stars iwthin 3 years, bank on that.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> The more I think about this rumor the more I like it. The loss of Sergio, Jack and Frye is the cost of consolidating this roster. I can't see Sergio ever thriving on our team, he needs to be on a team where he can have the ball in his hands and run an offense, like Jason Williams did his first couple years in Sacramento. Sergio will never get a chance to do that here with Roy controlling the ball 35 mpg and the other options (Oden/LMA/TO) getting their touches.
> 
> The two big assets we are giving up are the pick and Webster. Masbee made some great points about difficulty in resigning Webster, I don't want to overpay him and it would be better to trade him then have to let him walk as a FA. Jones as the starter and TO as the 6th man might even make the team better.
> 
> ...


exactly. Webster wil want starter money and starter minutes, where truth is, he isn't good enough. Outlaw will be better, has a higher ceiling. Jones will be much cheaper to re-sign, but a better shooter, more consistant and a better defender with better size.

This deal is a nobraniner, harris is an all star calibur player, will help roy, and will get us EASY BASKETS which is what we need to succeed since we are a jump shooting team.

Frye, Sergio, Jack, Webster, 1st round pick... pick 3 of those players and the pick, and i'd take harris for them anyday. We don't have enough minutes and shots to go around to keep everyone happy, and not enough cash to resign them, its really a no brainer, if KP can make this work, he is a genious, imo.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Draco said:


> But if we do this trade that changes our outlook, we ship out 4 prospects causing the pick to become much more useful for us. I'd like to hang onto it, or at least send a 2009/10 pick instead of the '08 pick. I'd hate to do this trade, have the team get into a little funk as a result and cause our pick to become fairly valuable.
> 
> But if the pick is the deal breaker, I probably still do the trade.


I agree completely. 

League rules dictate that we can't trade our pick two years in a row, so that helps too. 

Fortunately there seems to be a few quality SFs late in the first round we could look at, which would probably become our weakest position if we dealt Webster. Outlaw seems to be an nontraditional type of 3.


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## ProfitByProphet (Jan 31, 2008)

I like this trade if the '08 pick is lottery protected or an '09 unprotected pick. I can't see Portland staying hot his season without a bench. Unless Miles is ready to go like he says he is.

Harris is exactly the type of point this team needs. Sergio is useless without the ball in his hands and seeing him on the court with Roy is nearly vomit inducing.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

e_blazer1 said:


> Also, this move would pretty much end the notion of Brandon bein our eventual PG, with Rudy playing the 2.


Roy isn't a classic point guard anyway, and Fernandez is a combo guard. Harris is a point guard in the mold of Tony Parker. Putting Harris in a backcourt with Roy gives you two ball-handlers, two passers and two scoring threats. And neither one of them is selfish. Fernandez then gives you a tremendously talented reserve who can back up both positions, basically allowing all three of them to play quite a few minutes. You could play Harris and Roy 35 minutes per game each and give Fernandez the remaining minutes at both positions, giving him 26 per game.

I think a Roy/Harris/Fernandez guard combination would be amazing. And up front, you have Oden/Aldridge/Przybilla as another tremendous rotation. Outlaw provides an intriguing option at the 3, or the Blazers could draft/sign a good starting small forward and Outlaw becomes another valuable reserve, who could swing between 3 and 4.

Basically, I see very little downside to consoliating marginal producers (with upside) Webster, Jack and Rodriguez into a player who is already near star-level in Harris. The team still has a lot of versatility and depth, plus a a significantly improved core.


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## craigehlo (Feb 24, 2005)

Minstrel said:


> I think a Roy/Harris/Fernandez guard combination would be amazing.


That's a sweet small ball lineup with LMA and Oden holding down the post. 

If there's a Harris deal on the table, please pull the trigger KP.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

MrJayremmie said:


> in the next 2 years Harris will be an all star, along with Oden and Aldridge, we will have 4 all-stars iwthin 3 years, bank on that.


I highly highly doubt this. With other western PG's like Paul, D Williams, Parker and Baron Davis, there just is not much room for Harris. Especially since he would not get close to the stats as the other guys if he were a Blazer. He would be sharing PG duties with Roy, which is perfect for our team, but not perfect for getting the nod at being an All Star. His biggest strengths would be defense and slashing, neither of which would likely lead to AS game. I would love for this deal to go through, but you are fooling yourself if you think he would have a chance at making an AS team as a Blazer. Especially since Roy and Oden will almost certainly get credit before Harris. And Aldridge would also be fighting for a spot. This is not a knock on Harris, he is good, and on another team, especially in the East, he might have a shot, but no way, no how, will he make it from the Blazers.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

Minstrel said:


> The team still has a lot of versatility and depth, plus a a significantly improved core.


Minstrel! Welcome back, we missed you.

barfo


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

barfo said:


> Minstrel! Welcome back, we missed you.
> 
> barfo


I second that.


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## OntheRocks (Jun 15, 2005)

meru said:


> I second that.





+ 1


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## ROYisR.O.Y. (Apr 1, 2007)

im done with webster i will congratulate him if he does well but im on the record as being completely against playing him over others


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

^but he has so much potential!!!!! lmao. 

The best he will do for you, consistently, is give you 12-14 a night, hittin' his shots. He won't get to the rim, rebound, steal or any of that. If he isn't hittin' his shot, he won't help the offense or the team. Mix that with his want for starter minutes and money, and i say, ew...


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

barfo said:


> Minstrel! Welcome back, we missed you.





meru said:


> I second that.





OntheRocks said:


> + 1


Thanks! Blossoming romance and crushing work have conspired to limit my online time. I really appreciate your sentiments.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

> I highly highly doubt this. With other western PG's like Paul, D Williams, Parker and Baron Davis, there just is not much room for Harris. Especially since he would not get close to the stats as the other guys if he were a Blazer. He would be sharing PG duties with Roy, which is perfect for our team, but not perfect for getting the nod at being an All Star. His biggest strengths would be defense and slashing, neither of which would likely lead to AS game. I would love for this deal to go through, but you are fooling yourself if you think he would have a chance at making an AS team as a Blazer. Especially since Roy and Oden will almost certainly get credit before Harris. And Aldridge would also be fighting for a spot. This is not a knock on Harris, he is good, and on another team, especially in the East, he might have a shot, but no way, no how, will he make it from the Blazers.


Paul, and Williams. Davis, and Nash are gettin' old, and for all we know might not be on their team much longer, and their stats will start to slide, as will the suns aging team soon enough. Nash is what, 32?

Harris, imo, in about 2-3 years, will be the 3rd or 4th best PG in the league. I think he will be better than Parker in 3 years.


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## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

MrJayremmie said:


> Paul, and Williams. Davis, and Nash are gettin' old, and for all we know might not be on their team much longer, and their stats will start to slide, as will the suns aging team soon enough. Nash is what, 32?
> 
> Harris, imo, in about 2-3 years, will be the 3rd or 4th best PG in the league. I think he will be better than Parker in 3 years.


32 isen't that old it's still middle age in the NBA. Nash still has around 8 maybe 9 years left in him. As for the Blazers go both Harris and Roy are kind of PG\SG type of players thats whats so great about this team. The Blazers are going to be a team that isen't going to have to rely on a true PG.:cheers:


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

^ nash won't play til he is 40, he plays too many minutes and at such a high level of run and gun, he won't have more than 2-3 years left of all star caliber years. which is why i said that Harris will be right up there. Same with Kidd if he comes to Dallas.


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## BlazerFan22 (Jul 4, 2006)

MrJayremmie said:


> ^ nash won't play til he is 40, he plays too many minutes and at such a high level of run and gun, he won't have more than 2-3 years left of all star caliber years. which is why i said that Harris will be right up there. Same with Kidd if he comes to Dallas.


Well Nash probably wont play at an all star calibur player after age 35 but he will still play. Maybe by the time he's 37 and hasen't won a ring yet he will come to Portland to win a championship as a reserve.:yay::cheers:


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

^ lol. I could see a guy like Nash headin' to LA in 2 or 3 years lookin' for a ring backin' up fisher, or after fisher is gone, backing up Farmar on that sick Laker team. Hopefully the blazers will be in that position to take really good veterans with no rings on, to get 'em a ring and help us. That would be awesome.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

MrJayremmie said:


> *Paul, and Williams. Davis, and Nash are gettin' old,* and for all we know might not be on their team much longer, and their stats will start to slide, as will the suns aging team soon enough. Nash is what, 32?
> 
> Harris, imo, in about 2-3 years, will be the 3rd or 4th best PG in the league. I think he will be better than Parker in 3 years.


I never said Nash, I said Paul, Wiliams, Davis and Parker.
Harris is 24

Paul is 22

Williams is 23

Parker is 25

Davis is 28

So, Parker is 1 year older and Davis is 4 years older. The other two are younger.


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## MrJayremmie (Dec 29, 2007)

^ yea dude, i put a period after paul and williams, i think they will be better than him forever, lol. But Davis and Nash i think are gettin' old. Nash turning 31 or 32 or somethin, and Davis starting next season at 29, won't be playin at an all star level for too much longer, i think he is at his peak this year.

But the more i think about it, the more i agree with you, Harris would probably be an all star caliber player, but i don't think he would make an all star while in portland. You are right.


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## Ukrainefan (Aug 1, 2003)

I read today that Marc Stein believes Dallas is ready to give up Devin Harris but are concerned about also losing Stackhouse (he would have to wait 30 days before resigning with Dallas) and one of the two young bigs (Brandon Bass, Desagna Diop). I think for this trade to have a chance it's more important to make Dallas happy than New Jersey. New Jersey is not really in a good spot with a guy with that big of a contract who wants out. What I am saying is the previous proposals were probably floated by NJ and of course favored them.

So I have an idea for a trade that gives more to Dallas and not so much to new Jersey. Also has us giving up less but having to take on a bad contract. (By the way, these trades all work on Realgm as long as Devean George agrees to the trade.)

New Jersey OUT: Jason Kidd

IN: Devean George, Raef LaFrentz and 2 of 4 from Portland (Webster, Jack, Rodriguez, Frye)

Dallas OUT: Devin Harris, Devean George, Erick Dampier

IN: Jason Kidd

Portland OUT: Raef LaFrentz plus 2 of 4 (Webster, Jack, Rodriguez, Frye).

I think Dallas definitely gives up a 1st round pick to Jersey, they basically trade Devin Harris for Jason Kidd and get rid of Dampier's bad contract. Maybe they give up two first rounders and we keep ours. New Jersey does better on that deal than Memphis, since they get two picks in about the same range as the Lakers and get two players probably better than Jarvis Crittendon, and Gasol was not asking to be traded so Memphis was not in such a bad position to trade.

So I like this trade better; we give up only two young players instead of three and no draft pick. How you feel about it might depend on who gets to pick those two players, New Jersey or Portland, I'm assuming it would be negotiated. Dampier could help us for one year until Oden is back and then we would probably buy him out.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

iirc, players are no longer allowed to re-sign with teams that trade them if they are then waived by the new team.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

maybe we could get a pick swap too?


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## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

Try this one out

When its all said and done I think something along these lines will happen

NJ has to take back something that is dirty laundry, and Dallas HAS to give up something of value to get something of even bigger value. We are not going to be in this to give each of them gifts, and take on a burden for us.

For Dallas.. they give us Bass in addition to Harris.. they have to move Harris to get Kidd period

NJ and Dallas have to give something of worth to get what they want

For NJ they take on a contract of lessor value than Kidd's

Portland sends NJ its 2008 draft pick.. top 6 protected or something like that... we also send $3 mil to NJ to help with Raef's contract.... we have already half of this years already....

Dallas gets who they want
NJ unloads Kidd's salary, and gets Jack, Hassell, Stackhouse and Raef, a draft pick and cash... pretty good since they are in a jam

I do not feel KP will give up TO, Frye or Webster.... Jack and Raef for sure... Miles if possible but I doubt it... and only TO and Webster if we get a better return


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## darkhelmit54 (Jan 23, 2005)

I'd rather give up Koponen than Sergio honestly. I think Peterri might be the better prospect but I like the Sergio Rudy connection a lot and think we need to give this kid a shot. He's aldridge's favorite guy on the team and really can add an awesome change of pace to the game, and with some guys who know how to move w/o the ball better and are competent at finishing on the break (we are like last right) I think he'd really blossom more. Oden and Rudy would help a lot and give Sergio some more time with Aldridge perhaps. 

Besides Dallas plays a very slow controlled defensive game, why would they want a smaller fast paced PG like Sergio, wouldn't a bigger better defense PG like Koponen appeal to them more?


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## Draco (Jun 28, 2003)

Ukraine you make an interesting proposal by including Dampier. If we take on his contract, that is 90 million between him and Harris. Now Raef makes 30 but that is still an additional 60 million. If we do that, I don't think we really need to be sending off much youth or picks, Frye and Jack should be enough.

Heres an idea
 Dallas should also send NJ two future 1st in that deal.

Dallas gets to keep their contributors intact (Stackhouse/Bass/Diop)

NJ gets young talent (Jack/Frye/Fazkas/Ager/ Two 1st rounders)

Portland gets Devin Harris


Perhaps we also send Sergio or a lottery protected 1st to NJ to close the deal.


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## Perfection (May 10, 2004)

Hap said:


> iirc, players are no longer allowed to re-sign with teams that trade them if they are then waived by the new team.


i remember stacy augmon being traded to houston, cut and then resigned by the blazers...


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Perfection said:


> i remember stacy augmon being traded to houston, cut and then resigned by the blazers...


Yah, like 8 years ago. They changed it when Payton was traded and then cut and then someone else was traded and cut and re-signed with the original team.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

Minstrel said:


> Thanks! Blossoming romance and crushing work have conspired to limit my online time. I really appreciate your sentiments.


Is that better than a crushing romance and a blossoming work?


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Hap said:


> Is that better than a crushing romance and a blossoming work?


Work never blossoms. It's better than being crushed by both.


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## HispanicCausinPanic (Jul 2, 2005)

Minstrel said:


> Work never blossoms. It's better than being crushed by both.


I have been crushed by romance once. Well,........ I hooked up with a fat chick in college. That counts right?


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## BuckW4GM (Nov 2, 2005)

HispanicCausinPanic said:


> I have been crushed by romance once. Well,........ I hooked up with a fat chick in college. That counts right?


i've seen your pictures. by what you just said, i'd guess you crushed more romance than you've been crushed by it. :biggrin:


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## HispanicCausinPanic (Jul 2, 2005)

BuckW4GM said:


> i've seen your pictures. by what you just said, i'd guess you crushed more romance than you've been crushed by it. :biggrin:


WOW! Calling me out like that! Are you one of my boys that check this site out? A perfect stranger crackin' on the HCP!


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