# The Official Tim Thomas Update Thread



## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

I promise, I just turned on the Suns game to see Darko play, but guess what? Tim Thomas is playing for the Suns tonight.

And he's playing well. So far he has 14 points in 13 minutes of game action.

This thread was going to made eventually, so I figured I'd do it. Let's keep it friendly, eh?


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)




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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Tim Thomas currently has got a most unusual box score. 20 points, 0 rebounds, 0 assists.


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## nanokooshball (Jan 22, 2005)

lol i was gonna make one.... but The suns are proly the perfect fit for Tim thomas to maximize his talents... even tho he's a lazy lug


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

Suns are losing the game.

Cancer.

Must be an odd feeling. Sitting around the condo all year.  Chilling at the mall. Just knowing you can show up in a NBA game at any time and drop 20 on a team.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

They are winning and Thomas looked like he was having fun out there. shooting a bunch of threes. he made a couple before he airballed one.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> Suns are losing the game.
> 
> Cancer.
> 
> Must be an odd feeling. Sitting around the condo all year. Chilling at the mall. Just knowing you can show up in a NBA game at any time and drop 20 on a team.



Even odder when you sign that veterans minimum contract and realize that if you could do it every night you'd be an allstar and worthy of a second max contract.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

GB said:


> Even odder when you sign that veterans minimum contract and realize that if you could do it every night you'd be an allstar and worthy of a second max contract.


I believe the concept may be declining marginal utility of wealth.... or something like that.

Suns are winning! Is there a cure for cancer?


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

The Suns are the perfect situation for a guy like Thomas. Great system, very good coach, best PG. If you cant value yourself there, you wont do it anywhere.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

They're going nuts about Tim Thomas on the postgame.

On a related note, is there a better complimentary combo in the NBA than Steve Nash and Sean Marion?


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## nanokooshball (Jan 22, 2005)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> They're going nuts about Tim Thomas on the postgame.
> 
> On a related note, is there a better complimentary combo in the NBA than Steve Nash and Sean Marion?


Steve Nash and Amaare Stoudamire?


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## PowerWoofer (Jan 5, 2006)

You know what, I hope Tim Thomas is happy now that he got his wish and he's finally playing with a contending team. He can't have anything to whine about with the best PG in the game giving him passes, and having probably the best offensive team in the league. I wish him the best and hopes he has fun in Phoenix. Plus he isn't gonna be competing with another team to knock us out of the playoff hunt, so it's not a big problem with him in the WC.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

nanokooshball said:


> Steve Nash and Amaare Stoudamire?


Amare would have to be considered a more valuable player than Marion, but Nash and Marion's telepathy is just ridiculous.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> They're going nuts about Tim Thomas on the postgame.


If Nash played for the Bulls, Luol would average 24 ppg.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Amare would have to be considered a more valuable player than Marion, but Nash and Marion's telepathy is just ridiculous.


Diaw and Marion have a better combo going I'd say. Diaw is throwing most alley oops to Marion I think.


Diaw to Marion, Nash to Amare 2 great combos


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

El Chapu said:


> The Suns are the perfect situation for a guy like Thomas. Great system, very good coach, best PG. If you cant value yourself there, you wont do it anywhere.


Not to mention a total stat-inflation system. Numbers-wise, Boris Diaw is pratically an all-star who routinely threatens a triple-double. Raja Bell has also become a stud there. It goes to show what an amazing player Steve Nash is, as well as D'Antoni for how he gets his team to play like that every night. 

Bottomline, the Suns have the most unique system in the NBA. It's scary to think what someone with serious talent could do on that team (sorta like how Amare played like ALL of last season).

Edit: I just realized they were playing Orlando too...pretty awful team defensively. Let's see them play a real team.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

It must be fun for a guy with fresh legs getting paid a ton of money to play for a team that plays little to no defense. He can shoot three's as he pleases even though they need a post presence with Kurt Thomas out. We could really use a guy like tim thomas because our most pressing need is with our perimeter scoring.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

spongyfungy said:


> It must be fun for a guy with fresh legs getting paid a ton of money to play for a team that plays little to no defense. He can shoot three's as he pleases even though they need a post presence with Kurt Thomas out. We could really use a guy like tim thomas because our most pressing need is with our perimeter scoring.


Phoenix is one of the best defensive teams in the league over the entire season so far.


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## BullSoxChicagosFinest (Oct 22, 2005)

Yep, I knew he could score, saw the long range game in some preseason games I went to. Too bad, don't know who's fault this is, but would be nice to actually have Curry and AD's replacements play if we were forced to make the trade


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

The guy is obviously not 100% in game shape, but is anyone a little mystified that Tim Thomas is starting and now playing 30+ minutes for the 3rd best team in the Western Conference?

I know that the Suns have an injury to deal with... but come on... this guy obviously has a lot of ball left in him. Certainly not washed up or Glenn Robinson-esque.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> The guy is obviously not 100% in game shape, but is anyone a little mystified that Tim Thomas is starting and now playing 30+ minutes for the 3rd best team in the Western Conference?


The best PG in the league could make Rusty Larue look good.

Plus, their right way aura is strong enough to twart his "cancer-way" aura. Ours is still developing.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

GB said:


> The best PG in the league could make Rusty Larue look good.
> 
> Plus, their right way aura


I wonder how long Eddie House would last on the Bulls.

I know how long Tim Thomas would last on the Bulls.

I don't think the Suns give a rats *** about "right way" aura. They just want to win basketball games.

The Suns are not idiots... they have other players on the roster to choose from that are not playing. They like what Tim Thomas brings to the table.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> They just want to win basketball games.



I think you'd have to agree that they are doing it the "right way".



As I said earlier, build the foundation and then you can add ANYONE to it. We'll be there one day soon.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> The guy is obviously not 100% in game shape, but is anyone a little mystified that Tim Thomas is starting and now playing 30+ minutes for the 3rd best team in the Western Conference?
> 
> I know that the Suns have an injury to deal with... but come one... this guy obviously has a lot of ball left in him. Certainly not washed up or Glenn Robinson-esque.


Makes you say, hmmmm. Pax has had the team how long and still can't handle one guy like this on the team?

p.s. I haven't seen them with Thomas, but Suns play pretty gritty D.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

GB said:


> As I said earlier, build the foundation and then you can add ANYONE to it. We'll be there one day soon.


Define "soon."

How long until we're "there".... with a plus .700 winning percentage and a MVP and multiple all-stars on the team?


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> Define "soon."
> 
> How long until we're "there".... with a plus .700 winning percentage and a MVP and multiple all-stars on the team?


2 seasons from now.

24 months at the earliest...36 at the latest.

I await your discomfiture, as it will happen under Paxson and Skiles. Maybe you'll become a Knicks fan in disappointment?

More likely you'll complain that we don't win 72 games per season and won't win 3 rings in a row. :yes:


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> I wonder how long Eddie House would last on the Bulls.


How is House any different in style than Pargo as a player (or Gordon for that matter)?


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

TripleDouble said:


> How is House any different in style than Pargo as a player (or Gordon for that matter)?


Not style, no.

Demeanor though? Yah, I'd say so. 

The man appears to be a head case, IMO. 

House seems more like the players Paxson dumps than the ones he chooses to acquire.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> Not style, no.
> 
> Demeanor though? Yah, I'd say so.
> 
> ...


I haven't heard anything to suggest that he's a "bad apple."


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

GB said:


> 2 seasons from now.
> 
> 24 months at the earliest...36 at the latest.


This sort of official-yet-vague announcement just slays me.

Why then? What's the difference going to be between now and then?

Again, it all begs the same question: if you truly believe that Luol Deng, Chris Duhon, Ben Gordon, Kirk "I Choose Not to Run" Hinrich, Tyson Chandler, etc. are so mentally fragile that they wouldn't be able to withstand a season with Tim Thomas, then what makes you think they'll ever be ready to handle any adversity at all? 

I have a lot more faith -- a LOT more -- in those guys than that. They're men getting paid a ****load of money to do a job, they're not five-year-olds.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

TripleDouble said:


> I haven't heard anything to suggest that he's a "bad apple."


He has not been on the Bulls yet.

Successful teams like the Suns take our bad apples and insert them in the starting lineup for 30+ minutes.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> if you truly believe that Luol Deng, Chris Duhon, Ben Gordon, Kirk "I Choose Not to Run" Hinrich, Tyson Chandler, etc. are so mentally fragile that they wouldn't be able to withstand a season with Tim Thomas, then what makes you think they'll ever be ready to handle any adversity at all?


I don't believe it. I believe his absence was better for _team_ chemistry than anything else.

See this guy.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> Successful teams like the Suns take our bad apples and insert them in the starting lineup for 30+ minutes.


But you wonder if they would have signed the player at all if they had had Nocioni and Deng...

Me thinks no. And you?


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> He has not been on the Bulls yet.
> 
> Successful teams like the Suns take our bad apples and insert them in the starting lineup for 30+ minutes.


how many bad apples of ours play for the suns??? Please explain??


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

GB said:


> But you wonder if they would have signed the player at all if they had had Nocioni and Deng...
> 
> Me thinks no. And you?


Deng or Nocioni would thrive under nash. But nash has years of experience on our pgs. 

But again Deng and nocioni are not bad apples now are they?


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

but this isn't/wasnt' really about kirk or ben or chris or luol not being able to withstand tim thomas. it's about skiles not being able to.

begins and ends there, imo. or should i say began and ended there. 

skiles' terse "i wish him well" bit was amusing. the article in the trib by everyone's favorite bulls gossip, i mean, beat reporter phrased their relationship as "cold".

this was skiles v. TT 

skiles won. 

i think that's what happened. duh.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> He has not been on the Bulls yet.
> 
> Successful teams like the Suns take our bad apples and insert them in the starting lineup for 30+ minutes.


This is not a convincing arguement for why House is not a Bulls type of player.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

mizenkay said:


> but this isn't/wasnt' really about kirk or ben or chris or luol not being able to withstand tim thomas. it's about skiles not being able to.



See number "D"


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

TripleDouble said:


> This is not a convincing arguement for why House is not a Bulls type of player.


True, but the argument that would convince you does not exist, IMO.

And, I don't really care if you are convinced about my hunch or not.

I'm confident that our losing jib restriction is higher than the successful Suns, and its crystal clear that Tim Thomas is in between ours and the Suns. 

I also feel that House is below Paxson's jib restriction. Whether you agree or not is irrelevant to me.


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

kukoc4ever said:


> He has not been on the Bulls yet.
> 
> Successful teams like the Suns take our bad apples and insert them in the starting lineup for 30+ minutes.


I'm not sure I follow this logic re: Phoenix. If Eddie House has been labeled a cancer or something, I must've missed it. I don't see Phoenix as being an un-jibby team. Their biggest off season acquisition was Raja Bell - a guy we targeted. Kurt Thomas and James Jones aren't exactly Rasheed Wallace and Bonzi Wells. Looking through their lineup the only guys who jump out at me (outside of Tim Thomas) as having less than sterling jib rep's are Dijon Thompson and Nikoloz Tskitishvillie, and neither of them play much. Am I missing something?

I don't mean to endorse or condemn "jib", I'm just trying to understand how Phoenix's roster (minus Tim Thomas) is relevant to the jib discussion...


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> True, but the argument that would convince you does not exist, IMO.
> 
> And, I don't really care if you are convinced about my hunch or not.
> 
> ...


What a comforting way to admit that your claim was and is totally unsubstantial.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

TripleDouble said:


> What a comforting way to admit that your claim was and is totally unsubstantial.


Yes, its a hunch.

He'd have to join the Bulls and be banished like Thomas or benched like Sweetney to be substantial.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

jbulls said:


> I don't mean to endorse or condemn "jib", I'm just trying to understand how Phoenix's roster (minus Tim Thomas) is relevant to the jib discussion...


Its not. I should not have brought it up since it can't be proven.

Back on topic... it can be proven that a player that was banished from the Bulls is now starting and playing heavy minutes on a team much, much better than ours.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> Its not. I should not have brought it up since it can't be proven.
> 
> Back on topic... it can be proven that a player that was banished from the Bulls is now starting and playing heavy minutes on a team much, much better than ours...


...beset by injuries, but lead by the lead MVP, a player without equal in todays NBA, who can make anyone look good.

Luol Deng would score 24ppg alongside Nash. He and Nocioni on Phoenix would put Tim Thomas in the same position he was in here: looking for another team to play for.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

GB said:


> ...beset by injuries, but lead by the lead MVP, a player without equal in todays NBA, who can make anyone look good.
> 
> Luol Deng would score 24ppg alongside Nash. He and Nocioni on Phoenix would put Tim Thomas in the same position he was in here: looking for another team to play for.


They are playing Tim Thomas at center. You think they would put Deng there? The "logjam at the 3" excuse can't be used with the Suns.

The fact that TT isn't banished shows the difference in jib restriction.

The fact that he’s playing 30+ on a team much, much better than the Bulls shows that he can still play.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> The fact that he’s playing 30+ on a team much, much better than the Bulls shows that he can still play.


No one doubted that. Whether or not he could play in front of Deng and Nocioni is.

As for your other assertions:



> With James Jones' toe joint problem bothering him more last game, Thomas took Jones' place in the starting lineup.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

Why not rename the Eddy, Jamal and now TT update threads to the "Where we argue about whether we think the Bulls should have got rid of *insert player name*, but done under the thinly veiled pretence that we're actually following how they are doing on their new team" threads?

I mean, it might be a bit long, but it seems more accurate.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

It's only been 3 games, but TT is a proven player.

26 minutes/game, 12.3 PPG, 4.3 RPG He's 6'10" and 240 pounds.

We hvae a 6'8" guy who's 240 pounds. Here's his stats:
22 minutes/game, 9.3 PPG, 4.0 RPG

Guess who?


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

ShamBulls said:


> Why not rename the Eddy, Jamal and now TT update threads to the "Where we argue about whether we think the Bulls should have got rid of *insert player name*, but done under the thinly veiled pretence that we're actually following how they are doing on their new team" threads?
> 
> I mean, it might be a bit long, but it seems more accurate.


Better:

The "Paxson is an idiot because we'd win 55 games if we had kept Rose, Jamal and Curry and Tim Thomas thread while firing Scott Skiles and heres the proof" thread.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Songaila


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

truebluefan said:


> Songaila


:biggrin:


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> It's only been 3 games, but TT is a proven player.
> 
> 26 minutes/game, 12.3 PPG, 4.3 RPG He's 6'10" and 240 pounds.
> 
> ...


The guy is running on fresh legs, and in a system where all he's expected to do is shoot when the ball is passed to him. In the interest of harmony on the board, I've been trying to avoid TT discussion, but I hope those of us in this thread who are rubbing in how well Thomas has played in 3 games are ready for the backlash when his role is reduced or his game suffers.

Similar to the way the Crawford and Curry threads died their own (slow) deaths once some of our resident know-it-alls finally realized that the guys they put so much faith in really are below average players who don't deserve all this praise. Frankly, we should have just sent TT back to NY -- a better fit really doesn't exist out there.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Wynn said:


> The guy is running on fresh legs, and in a system where all he's expected to do is shoot when the ball is passed to him. In the interest of harmony on the board, I've been trying to avoid TT discussion, but I hope those of us in this thread who are rubbing in how well Thomas has played in 3 games are ready for the backlash when his role is reduced or his game suffers.
> 
> Similar to the way the Crawford and Curry threads died their own (slow) deaths once some of our resident know-it-alls finally realized that the guys they put so much faith in really are below average players who don't deserve all this praise. Frankly, we should have just sent TT back to NY -- a better fit really doesn't exist out there.


TT's career numbers:
26.3 MPG, 11.9 PPG, 4.0 RPG

He's basically doing what he's done his entire career, nothing better, nothing worse.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

Wynn said:


> The guy is running on fresh legs, and in a system where all he's expected to do is shoot when the ball is passed to him. In the interest of harmony on the board, I've been trying to avoid TT discussion, but I hope those of us in this thread who are rubbing in how well Thomas has played in 3 games are ready for the backlash when his role is reduced or his game suffers.
> 
> Similar to the way the Crawford and Curry threads died their own (slow) deaths once some of our resident know-it-alls finally realized that the guys they put so much faith in really are below average players who don't deserve all this praise. Frankly, we should have just sent TT back to NY -- a better fit really doesn't exist out there.


And with that, I'm done for the day.

Good post.


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## Amareca (Oct 21, 2002)

GB said:


> Luol Deng would score 24ppg alongside Nash. He and Nocioni on Phoenix would put Tim Thomas in the same position he was in here: looking for another team to play for.


You can't be serious.

Marion and Diaw >>>>> Deng and Noccioni and he is not in that position. Besides Diaw plays center not Thomas.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

TT has played well on a very good Phoenix team. A team I might add that was doing well without him so he was just plugged in and plugged in to shoot. 

You are right wynn, he will have a bad game soon and thats when the trouble starts. Then we will have yet another thread of a former bulls player being discussed 100 fold while a current bulls player may have a very nice game it it gets token discussion or nothing said at all. Its been that way all season long. But hey, I cant dictate what the posters are to discuss. I find it odd that current players are almost nonexistant.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

Amareca said:


> You can't be serious.
> 
> Marion and Diaw >>>>> Deng and Noccioni and he is not in that position. Besides Diaw plays center not Thomas.


You do know Deng has played some pf recently? If TT can play center, Deng can play pf. Nocioni plays a lot of pf.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

truebluefan said:


> TT has played well on a very good Phoenix team. A team I might add that was doing well without him so he was just plugged in and plugged in to shoot.
> 
> You are right wynn, he will have a bad game soon and thats when the trouble starts. Then we will have yet another thread of a former bulls player being discussed 100 fold while a current bulls player may have a very nice game it it gets token discussion or nothing said at all. Its been that way all season long. But hey, I cant dictate what the posters are to discuss. I find it odd that current players are almost nonexistant.


That's not exactly true.

Hinrich has 3 good games in a row and he gets lots of play in threads about it. When he goes 4-12 the next game, nobody wants to talk about him so much.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> That's not exactly true.
> 
> Hinrich has 3 good games in a row and he gets lots of play in threads about it. When he goes 4-12 the next game, nobody wants to talk about him so much.


Don't be too sure of that. Hinrich had a great game against the Cavs, and all I could do was complain that he missed a free throw. 

Back to the topic, I think these extremely polarized viewpoints are a little much for me. 

To the Thomas Haters: Look, Tim Thomas is not a three-toed sloth. He is a talented basketball player. He CAN contribute to winning in some situations, such as on the Suns, which was very obviously a good fit for an athlete and shooter of his size. Things will work out well for Thomas now. He will impress for the rest of the season, and someone, maybe the Suns will sign him to a new deal for about five or so years worth about the MLE (approx 25-30 million total). Count on it.

Administration Haters: I agree with you that the whole banishment phenomenom was very bizarre. I honestly hope Tim Thomas did something more than is publically known, or said something really unacceptable, to get the treatment he did. You will have some ammunition for days, because Thomas WILL continue to contribute to the Suns' success. Whether Paxson forced him to Phoenix over Jerseys or not, this will be a blessing in disguise for Thomas, as his stats will be guady compared to what they might have been elsewhere (this is true of many NBA players who pass through Phoenix). But we need to remember that Phoenix has a strong and clear leader in place such as Steve Nash and a much more flexible coach like D'Antoni. I think the fit is better for the team and for the player. I also think that Thomas' skill set would not have helped the Bulls too much this season, as his game is really much like Deng's and Nocioni's right now (jump shooting, perimeter oriented forward). However, I agree that isn't a good reason for banishment.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

How different is Tim Thomas' game from Adam Morrison's?

I dont' watch a bunch of NCAA hoops.... they seem kind of similar based on what I've read about Morrison.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Don't be too sure of that. Hinrich had a great game against the Cavs, and all I could do was complain that he missed a free throw.
> 
> Back to the topic, I think these extremely polarized viewpoints are a little much for me.
> 
> ...


Well said!


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

kukoc4ever said:


> How different is Tim Thomas' game from Adam Morrison's?
> 
> I dont' watch a bunch of NCAA hoops.... they seem kind of similar based on what I've read about Morrison.


They are sort of the same offensively. Morrison just has all the intangibles that everyone wanted out of Tim Thomas when he was drafted. Morrison is ultra-competitive and his offensive court awareness is probably at least average at a NBA level right now.

They are sort of similar in terms of style. Both don't have a quick release, but have the ability to shoot over defenders. Both can create their own outside shot, although Thomas is more athletic of the two.

Thomas is better defensively, which obviously is not a good thing for Morrison. To his credit though, Morrison tries very hard.

Out of all the top prospects, he is last guy I want the Bulls to draft. I suppose if we had a trade for Gordon lined up, it may be different, but I think Gordon is going to be the better pro.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

DaBullz said:


> That's not exactly true.
> 
> Hinrich has 3 good games in a row and he gets lots of play in threads about it. When he goes 4-12 the next game, nobody wants to talk about him so much.


Lots? I beg to differ. I watched the board during that stretch. TT, Curry threads posted slightly more than did the Hirich thread during the day or two I watched. I dont know if its evened out or not. 

Maybe it was an exaggeration to say bulls players are nonexistant but many times they dont get the same burn as do former players. Just an observation.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

GB said:


> No one doubted that. Whether or not he could play in front of Deng and Nocioni is.
> 
> As for your other assertions:
> 
> ...


Looks like the Suns were planning on starting TT all along.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/suns/2006-03-07-notebook_x.htm?csp=34



> Coach Mike D'Antoni said he opted to start Thomas in part because it would help space his 20 to 25 minutes with more rest as he gets into NBA shape. He played 32 minutes.
> 
> *"Eventually, this is what we were to going to get to anyway," D'Antoni said of Thomas starting.*


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## jbulls (Aug 31, 2005)

kukoc4ever said:


> How different is Tim Thomas' game from Adam Morrison's?
> 
> I dont' watch a bunch of NCAA hoops.... they seem kind of similar based on what I've read about Morrison.


Hmm...they aren't totally dissimilar, IMO. Morrison is a lot more assertive on the offensive end. He wants the ball, and takes it right at guys when he gets it. Thomas gets a little lost out there sometimes. Defensively I don't have that good a read on Morrison. He wouldn't seem to have good lateral quickness for an NBA 3, and he hasn't been a great defender in college - but it's tough to defend at a really high level when the offense is going through you every possession. Thomas is pretty awful defensively, but he can (in theory) guard guys in the post, which I don't anticipate being a strong suit of Morrison's in the pro's.


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## Darius Miles Davis (Aug 2, 2002)

Yikes. Tim Thomas shoots 10-11 (!!!!) tonight, scoring 23 points. Phoenix wins again.

I can't imagine Phoenix winning it all this year without Amare, who looks like he won't be coming back, but I wish they would -- if we don't, of course. Sometimes I get so sick of the "defense wins championships" mantra. Sure, it usually does, but I do remember Kurt Warner and the Rams in Superbowl XXXIV. Every once in a while, an offensive juggernaut with no defense to speak of manages to win a championship. 

D'Antoni should be coach of the year. Maybe his way is the real right way.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Yikes. Tim Thomas shoots 10-11 (!!!!) tonight, scoring 23 points. Phoenix wins again.
> 
> I can't imagine Phoenix winning it all this year without Amare, who looks like he won't be coming back, but I wish they would -- if we don't, of course. Sometimes I get so sick of the "defense wins championships" mantra. Sure, it usually does, but I do remember Kurt Warner and the Rams in Superbowl XXXIV. Every once in a while, an offensive juggernaut with no defense to speak of manages to win a championship.
> 
> D'Antoni should be coach of the year. Maybe his way is the real right way.


The Rams did have defense in their championship season (1999). They had the fourth best scoring defense and the seventh best yardage defense in the league. You can see it for yourself here. 

Want to see something else? The next season's Rams once again had the league's best offense (scoring and yardage), but their scoring defense was the league's worst and their yardage defense was 24th in the league. All this led to a decent 10-6 season and losing in the Wildcard round. You can see more of this here.

On Tim Thomas, it was discussed on ESPN NBA Coast-to-Coast Tuesday night that Bulls assistant coach Pete Myers said that the Bulls never used Tim Thomas because the team's philosophy this season was to develop the younger talent (Deng, Nocioni).


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

Darius Miles Davis said:


> Yikes. Tim Thomas shoots 10-11 (!!!!) tonight, scoring 23 points. Phoenix wins again.


I'm not saying Tim Thomas is garbage or anything, but everyone who plays with Steve Nash plays to their potential or better. I thought him getting MVP last year was questionable, he deserves it this year. Probably won't get it because he got it last year.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

The frustrating thing is that this little window with Phoenix will probably net Tim Thomas another big fat contract that he will prove not to deserve..... dude is definitely smart. I feel sorry for whatever team pays him his next contract.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Hustle said:


> I'm not saying Tim Thomas is garbage or anything, but everyone who plays with Steve Nash plays to their potential or better. I thought him getting MVP last year was questionable, he deserves it this year. Probably won't get it because he got it last year.


It's pretty friggin amazing how these wing players can waltz into Phoenix and play out of their minds. I mean, Raja Bell was a marginal starter last year...never drafted either...and he's among the league leaders in 3-pt shooting (Bell shot 10-13 last night, btw). Boris Diaw threatens a triple-double every other night. Let's not forget Quentin Richardson last year compared to this year. Bottom line, Nash is an amazing player, and you have to give D'Antoni some credit; I doubted him for COY award last year, but he's really proving to be an amazing coach.

Regarding Tim Thomas though, I think it's reasonable to assume that he's playing his butt off for the remainder of this season to score his last contract of his career. He found the perfect team to show off his talents. I know I'll be laughing at whoever shows him the money this summer (unless it's with Phoenix, who seems to be the perfect fit).


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

:biggrin: 

There is absolutely no way anything Tim Thomas does is right with ya'll (you know who you are). His good decisions are being controlled by somebody else and/or he's very greedy and playing for that next contract. 

It's that comical level of scrutiny that Scott May referred to in that thread about whom the media is likely to pick on.

If he was stinking it up, ya'll (you know who you are) would be the ones constantly updating this thread, jumping, screaming, hollering, telling us: "He is so useless, we told you so !" You would be telling us that he has nothing left, he's on his way to the NBDL, and of course Pax made the "right" decision. Anything he would've done would've completely been his fault because the Suns are proven and he just wasn't good enough.

But now that he's proving to be quite useful for the Suns, that's definitely throwing a wrench in all those declarations right ? Instead ya'll said "His success is because he's in the right environment, because he's playing with Nash, and because he's got a good coach. He definitely would not fit in Chicago." 

What ? Isn't Kirk a great point guard, too ? If he was 2/3rds the point that Nash was, wouldn't we get 2/3rds the production out of Tim Thomas, which is probably still more than Sweets, Othella, Schenscher combined ? Don't we have a great coach, too ? Or would the evil of Tim Thomas be too much for all Bulls forces involved and we'd make a 180 turn into the dark side ?

So in summary for Paxilelytes, TT gets blame for his mistakes, but no credit for anything great he does because that must go to the team.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

The 6ft Hurdle said:


> :biggrin:
> 
> There is absolutely no way anything Tim Thomas does is right with ya'll (you know who you are). His good decisions are being controlled by somebody else and/or he's very greedy and playing for that next contract.
> 
> ...


But on the flip side hurdle, the ones that dislike Paxson wasted no time telling us how TT is doing. So it goes both ways. If people can bring up how well he is doing and when he has a bad game, to not allow the other side of the story any response is not right. But you knew this would happen didnt you? It happens every update thread we have ever had about a former player and it gets us nowhere. Talk about JC has just about stopped compared to what it used to be. So, talk about TT will stop in time, once we improve as a team. 

I am not getting involved one way or the other about TT. I am only stating the obvious. One side brings up TT, the other side will and can respond without prejudice, imo.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

truebluefan said:


> But on the flip side hurdle, the ones that dislike Paxson wasted no time telling us how TT is doing. So it goes both ways. If people can bring up how well he is doing and when he has a bad game, to not allow the other side of the story any response is not right. But you knew this would happen didnt you? It happens every update thread we have ever had about a former player and it gets us nowhere. Talk about JC has just about stopped compared to what it used to be. So, talk about TT will stop in time, once we improve as a team.
> 
> I am not getting involved one way or the other about TT. I am only stating the obvious. One side brings up TT, the other side will and can respond without prejudice, imo.


Of course I knew updates were going to happen regardless of how he did; it would be one crowd for him doing well, and another for him doing poorly. 

I'm just pointing out how it's hard for him amongst a section of posters to get any credit for anything great he's done.


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

The 6ft Hurdle said:


> Of course I knew updates were going to happen regardless of how he did; it would be one crowd for him doing well, and another for him doing poorly.
> 
> I'm just pointing out how it's hard for him amongst a section of posters to get any credit for anything great he's done.


Great and Tim Thomas are words that really don't belong together. 

http://slamonline.com/Saying/03072006/ - read the whole thing.

I watched TT disappear during the Bucks playoff runs under George Karl, then blame his teammates. He was a lucky, lucky guy playing with Ray Allen and Sam Cassell, and he never realized it just as he won't realize how darn lucky he is playing with Steve Nash.


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## The 6ft Hurdle (Jan 25, 2003)

narek said:


> Great and Tim Thomas are words that really don't belong together.
> 
> http://slamonline.com/Saying/03072006/ - read the whole thing.
> 
> I watched TT disappear during the Bucks playoff runs under George Karl, then blame his teammates. He was a lucky, lucky guy playing with Ray Allen and Sam Cassell, and he never realized it just as he won't realize how darn lucky he is playing with Steve Nash.


Even though I'm what academics would call a hip-hop linguist, I don't understand a thing that fool is saying. Nor do I really care to. That is such a poor representation of hip-hop culture, nonetheless from a guy named "Jake." Yeah, that's hip-hop. :dead: 

Aside from that, the only content he reveals 

"It's hard to really pinpoint when exactly Tim Thomas became such a T-square, ironic because his career has been wrong angle after wrong angle. Was it after he signed his ludicrous contract and proceeded to invest it in himself like MC Hammer invested in the pants for a Nassau space trip that never actually materialized? Was it after he threatened to choke Ray Allen? Was it after the Knicks dealt Van Horn for him, and then felt bad it about? Was it after he challenged Kenyon Martin -- FUGAZI! -- to emasculate him? Was it after the Bulls paid him NOT to play and then basically paid him to play for the Suns? Was it after he showed up courtside at the Meadowlands in a mink coat, professed his desire to play for the Nets, and then went all Vincent Pastore by signing with Phoenix?"

And even at that, all he's noting is TT's past transgressions. We already knew that. Nothing new is said. We already know this history, but we know very little about what actually happened between him and the Bulls. Whenever I think about this TT situation, there was a saying my coach had "a hard head make a soft ***." Well, we do have a stubborn coach, and he's not known for being the facilitative, understanding coach guess what's happening to us. . .


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

When you realize the guy is a 6'10" hurdle, you'll get it


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## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

Hustle said:


> I'm not saying Tim Thomas is garbage or anything, but everyone who plays with Steve Nash plays to their potential or better. I thought him getting MVP last year was questionable, he deserves it this year. Probably won't get it because he got it last year.


Check this out:

*Tim's 10 FG's: * 

Driving Layup - Unassisted
Jump Shot - Nash
Jump Shot - Marion
Jump Shot - Barbosa
Jump Shot - House
Jump Shot - Unassisted
Driving Layup - Barbosa
Offensive Putback - Unassisted
Jump Shot - Unassisted
Jump Shot - Unassisted

Only one shot was assisted by Nash. I hear people say all the time "Oh, of course he's going to make a lot of shots, he's playing with Nash now." They fail to give credit to the system, though Nash makes the system work. They also fail to give credit to Tim Thomas.


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## smARTmouf (Jul 16, 2002)

Cism!


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## r1terrell23 (Feb 11, 2006)

*We sure could use Tim Thomas*

Shooting 10-11, including 3-4 on 3's. 23pts in 19 minutes. :curse:


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## The ROY (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: We sure could use Tim Thomas*

LOL @ he didn't work as hard as the others in practice

looks to me like he didn't NEED to...

sometimes Paxson and Skiles can be over the top...


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## bulls (Jan 1, 2004)

*Re: We sure could use Tim Thomas*



The ROY said:


> LOL @ he didn't work as hard as the others in practice
> 
> looks to me like he didn't NEED to...
> 
> sometimes Paxson and Skiles can be over the top...


yeap,even jordan,pip and rodman wouldnt have made it on this team the way pax and SS is running it..THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A MIN


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

*Re: We sure could use Tim Thomas*

Everybody looks good playing for Phoenix; just look at Q-Rich and what he's doing in NY...


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## remlover (Jan 22, 2004)

*Re: We sure could use Tim Thomas*

We sure could use some defense tonight.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: We sure could use Tim Thomas*

Why is there a thread on this? We were just discussing TT today on the TT update thread.


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## PowerWoofer (Jan 5, 2006)

*Re: We sure could use Tim Thomas*

I think we could use some grit in a game like this. Dallas took a 19-point deficit last night and won against Cleveland. Our team, though, lacks all the necessary parts to win. That's why we can't win a game where we go off on a bad start. And they're not even a great team. WE'RE PLAYING THE BUCKS FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!

Very disappointing.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

*Re: We sure could use Tim Thomas*

I'm in Phoenix and have watched the last 2 Suns games. It's an absolutely huge joke that Paxson and Skiles didn't try harder to get something out of Thomas.


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## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

*Re: We sure could use Tim Thomas*



johnston797 said:


> I'm in Phoenix and have watched the last 2 Suns games. It's an absolutely huge joke that Paxson and Skiles didn't try harder to get something out of Thomas.


Wow. TT just thundered two dunks. He's playing like a man who wants a meal ticket.

Welcome to Phoenix!


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## smARTmouf (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: We sure could use Tim Thomas*



yodurk said:


> Why is there a thread on this? We were just discussing TT today on the TT update thread.


So

The title alone speaks for itself...Alot better than "TT update thread".

I for one get annoyed when everything is merged so quickly around here...Just completely diluting individual thoughts that get overshadowed by others.

I think that merge thing can be related to this TT issue...When to not be so anal about rules...And when to just let the kids play.


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## ShuHanGuanYu (Feb 3, 2005)

*Re: We sure could use Tim Thomas*



smARTmouf said:


> So
> 
> The title alone speaks for itself...Alot better than "TT update thread".
> 
> ...


Disorganization is a turn off to many posters. It is better to have all posts on one subject in one thread. There are other boards out there than allow endless subject making, and it looks like a disaster and makes the board have zero continuity.


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## El Chapu (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: We sure could use Tim Thomas*

We dont need jerks like Tim Thomas. Pax knew he has talent, thats why he is in Phoenix right now. Good for Thomas, playing for his next contract.


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## PowerWoofer (Jan 5, 2006)

Jib won't win you a championship. I've said this earlier in the year, and I'll say it again. We won't win with these guys unless Pax surrounds them with guys like Curry and AD. Why? Because when you have too much of a certain thing, you won't get anywhere. But when you have balance on the team, it provides chemistry and it leads to victories.

Example: '04-'05 CHICAGO BULLS.

Example of what happens when you have too much of a certain thing and not enough of the rest to balance the team out:

THE '05-'06 CHICAGO BULLS!!!!!!!

Doesn't get any simpler than that.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: We sure could use Tim Thomas*



El Chapu said:


> We dont need jerks like Tim Thomas. Pax knew he has talent, thats why he is in Phoenix right now. Good for Thomas, playing for his next contract.


Yeah, none of our guys are in it for the money.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

*Re: We sure could use Tim Thomas*



El Chapu said:


> We dont need jerks like Tim Thomas. Pax knew he has talent, thats why he is in Phoenix right now. Good for Thomas, playing for his next contract.


Couldn't he be helping us make the playoffs while he is playing for his next contract?


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: We sure could use Tim Thomas*



johnston797 said:


> Couldn't he be helping us make the playoffs while he is playing for his next contract?


no any bull must be a obediant cog in the machine and have no thoughts of self or be banished....to ny, or pho.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: We sure could use Tim Thomas*



Da Grinch said:


> no any bull must be a obediant cog in the machine and have no thoughts of self or be banished....to ny, or pho.


True. Its a shame we don't have some "independent thinkers" on the squad. Like Stephon Marbury. 

I hear he's the best point guard in the league.


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## dsouljah9 (Jul 9, 2002)

Well, it looks like this board is going nowhere fast, so before an all out flame war erupts(like it did on the "Eddy Curry Update"Thread) I put forth the motion to the mods that this thread be locked. :argue:


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

Do fans really think that Paxson or Skiles want to endanger their careers by making their team worse?


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## 7RINGS? (Sep 28, 2004)

I just heard one ESPN that the Bulls admitted they made a mistake keeping Tim Thomas on the shelf!!! He could have been the one that got us over the hump in many of those games we should of won.I didn't like the guys attiude but was it that way because Bulls management? Maybe they treated him unfairly so he took a stand.Not saying thats what went down but who knows with these guys.Our beloved Bulls management is infamous for getting under players skin.Even Jordan and Pippen had to deal with it.Like the tattoo on Chandler's arm says" ONLY THE STRONG SERVIVE " :biggrin:


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

TripleDouble said:


> Do fans really think that Paxson or Skiles want to endanger their careers by making their team worse?


No, I don't.

Which is what makes the decision to ban an indisputably productive player in a season where the Bulls are a universal disappointment so curious.


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## TripleDouble (Jul 26, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> No, I don't.
> 
> Which is what makes the decision to ban an *indisputably productive * player in a season where the Bulls are a universal disappointment so curious.


Productive in terms of numbers or productive in terms of wins?


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

TripleDouble said:


> Productive in terms of numbers or productive in terms of wins?


Productive in terms of wins. I have no way of proving this, of course, but I suspect that if the bulk of Michael Sweetney's minutes at the 4 had gone to Tim Thomas instead, we'd be in the playoffs if the season ended today. 

It's interesting to me that in another thread you're championing the virtues of "Sweets's" production vis a vis numbers, because the more Sweetney plays, the harder it is for our team to win. Terrible on-off numbers, terrible opponent's counterpart PER, etc.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: We sure could use Tim Thomas*



TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> True. Its a shame we don't have some "independent thinkers" on the squad. Like Stephon Marbury.
> 
> I hear he's the best point guard in the league.


nice diversion.

he said it,this is true , big deal it means nothing , its not even the most egotistical thing from a knick point guard i've ever heard , Mark Jackson used to go around asking knick teammates who was the best PG in the nba , expecting to hear his name...not magic or stockton(this was around 1990) ...mark frickin' jackson...and i am pretty sure marbury is a better player than Jax was , And an important side note marbury never spoke about how other felt about his ability he was just spouting his own opinion , nobody had to go by that but him.

the difference between marbury and bulls management is that he isn't some sort of moral dictator, he'll bend and see reason and if he finds that he was wrong he'll do something crazy ...He'll actually say it, he can have a beef and actually resolve it or at least show some effort to a peaceful accord . Marbury is by no means a saint but if i had to pick who is a more moral human being I'd have to go with the possibly selfish ball player who gave a million to hurricane victims out of sympathy over the the Jib GM who tried to force his former center into an intrusive test that is illeagal in 80% of this country. Has the duo of paxson and skiles ever made a mistake? Maybe they have and acknowledged it and i guess the media just didn't ask about it ...that seems plausible doesn't it?

Can you ever see the day when Pax says "I'm sorry Eddy, you were healthy all along, I took some bad advice."?

Or skiles saying "Hey Timmy is a good player and in hindsight I could have used him to help my team be better?"

Eddy hasn't dropped dead and doesn't appear to have any problems that suggest he will in the next 50 years or so.

TT is avg. 14 points on 52% fg and 44% from 3 point range in phoenix, maybe he isn't better off taking his daughter to school and fixing kids peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, maybe, just maybe he is actually a useful ballplayer and the bulls who are an outside shooting team in need of size could maybe have found a way to squeeze out a few more wins with TT as a regular player.

but what does that matter? its not like i might the bulls to win any games so lets keep inventing reasons to send good players away while bringing in the james thomas' and luke schencher's of the world in their stead. And for what? did Timmy lose any money on the deal ...no he got paid for nothing and is playing great , he'll still make some good money in the offseason ,Eddy still got his money and is happy in nyc, but the bulls have their cap space so everyone wins right?


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> No, I don't.
> 
> Which is what makes the decision to ban an indisputably productive player in a season where the Bulls are a universal disappointment so curious.


I think everyone expected a dip when the Bulls lost Curry and more importantly Antonio Davis. So I'm not sure that makes them a "universal" disappointment.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: We sure could use Tim Thomas*



Da Grinch said:


> nice diversion.
> 
> he said it,this is true , big deal it means nothing , its not even the most egotistical thing from a knick point guard i've ever heard , Mark Jackson used to go around asking knick teammates who was the best PG in the nba , expecting to hear his name...not magic or stockton(this was around 1990) ...mark frickin' jackson...and i am pretty sure marbury is a better player than Jax was , And an important side note marbury never spoke about how other felt about his ability he was just spouting his own opinion , nobody had to go by that but him.
> 
> ...



Wow. Nice rant.

I disagree, but...nice.


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## GB (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: We sure could use Tim Thomas*



> Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said he had few reservations about signing Thomas, especially at the appealing price of $200,000.
> 
> "That's an unbelievable bargain," D'Antoni said. "Now if I had to pay $13 million, I might have some questions. For us, it was a no-lose situation.
> 
> ...


Also a Skiles bit we've read before.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=411619


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## narek (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: We sure could use Tim Thomas*



GB said:


> Also a Skiles bit we've read before.
> http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=411619


The Journal didn't mention the lovely boos Timmy got last night during the game. I was hoping they would - missed the beginning so I don't know what the reaction was then.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

from Miz' recap of a Pax radio interview today:



Mizenkay said:


> but i did hear pax call tim thomas "delusional". he also said TT came into camp out of shape, didn't want to practice (makes me think TT's injuries weren't all that bad, but who knows), TT acted like "we owed him" and pax "didn't appreciate that". basically TT didn't want to do anything we asked or needed him to do.


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