# Lebron James officially better than Kobe?



## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

This topic has been heavily debated for the past 3 years. But Do you guys tbelieve that RIGHT NOW, Lebron James has taken the throne as the leagues best perimter player?


most people both professional and casual fans has always stated that Kobe is still better than Lebron because he still has an edge in defense, shooting.


But this season Lebron has been playing great defense (carrying from last years post season) Lebron is also shooting beyond the arc at a high and efficent rate.



So the question still stands. *Do you guys think Lebron has surpassed Kobe as the best player, skills wise?*


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

Of course, at everything other than scoring. That's been true for about 3 years. But most people judge a player's value based on scoring only, and so Kobe still gets called "best player in the game" like it's a matter of fact.


----------



## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

Mateo said:


> Of course, at everything other than scoring. That's been true for about 3 years. But most people judge a player's value based on scoring only, and so Kobe still gets called "best player in the game" like it's a matter of fact.


So you believe that for the past 3 years, Lebron is also better than Kobe defensively?

Interesting.


----------



## Mateo (Sep 23, 2006)

aznzen said:


> So you believe that for the past 3 years, Lebron is also better than Kobe defensively?
> 
> Interesting.


No, I perhaps phrased that wrong. I think LeBron has been a better overall player. I don't necessarily think LeBron is better specifically at defense than Kobe. But I think he's a much more "complete" player and that Kobe gets extra credit for leading the league in scoring.


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

aznzen said:


> So you believe that for the past 3 years, Lebron is also better than Kobe defensively?
> 
> Interesting.


Who cares. Neither one is going to change a game with their defense. Kobe didn't play defense for 2 years in a row and only recently started focusing on it once more.

LeBron has been the better player for 3 years now. Kobe is still our favorite though because he's the only one that can do 60+ in 3 quarters.


----------



## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

adam said:


> Who cares. Neither one is going to change a game with their defense. Kobe didn't play defense for 2 years in a row and only recently started focusing on it once more.


I agree. Kobe has been non chalant on defense the previous 2 years, this is why this topic has been brought up. Because Everything Kobe did better than Lebron, Lebron is doing it even better IMO.

People will have a hard time accepting this, but LBJ has finally arrived and the consensus should be LBJ>KB24.


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Mateo said:


> Of course, at everything other than scoring. That's been true for about 3 years. But most people judge a player's value based on scoring only, and so Kobe still gets called "best player in the game" like it's a matter of fact.


I'm not so sure. Lebron should always be a better rebounder, hes built like large 3 or slightly undersized 4. From a number's standpoint, no one in the NBA can really compare to him right now. Hes started off the season putting up huge numbers, and really his team's offense is so bad, that they need him to. 

I kind of feel like Kobe is on cruise control right now, his passiveness and love of shooting long jumpers is taking a huge toll on his stats. Either he still wants to be traded, or genuinely wants to let guys like Andrew Bynum and Jordan Farmar shine (which they have thus far this season). I find it hard to believe that he lost all that weight this summer just so he could stand around the perimeter and shoot contested fadeaways. Lamar Odom has been garbage. Either way, Kobe typically picks it up the second half of the season, or when the Lakers start a long losing skid (which is seems like its only a matter of time), and he starts averaging 40-50 points for 10 game stretches. His defense has been better than it has been in years this season, but overall, Lebron has clearly outplayed him thus far.

Its terribly difficult to argue with 31/8/8. The biggest part is, there isn't anything to complain about, his defense has picked up, hes shooting a high percentage. There is really nothing you can criticize him for, well other than that he still travels like a bus.


----------



## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

Lebron is better right now and should only get better in the future.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

So far he's been better at every aspect of the game...Although I'm sure we'll get another chorus of Kobe's great defense from people who think everyone is blind.


----------



## Pimped Out (May 4, 2005)

Stop being blind, Kobe plays great defense.


----------



## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

i cant wait to see Kobe go 5 games with 40+ points


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Lebron is having another triple double game.

Just sick.

James is a veteran now. With the type of numbers hes putting up, there is no way he can't get the MVP this season. Unless the Cavs are in the lottery.


----------



## Idunkonyou (Feb 23, 2003)

Drewbs said:


> Lebron is having another triple double game.
> 
> Just sick.
> 
> James is a veteran now. With the type of numbers hes putting up, there is no way he can't get the MVP this season. Unless the Cavs are in the lottery.


His team = .500. Unless they are 50+ wins and a top 4 seed in the east, he won't win the MVP. That is reserved for a player with great stats on a great team.


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

He had another triple D tonight and unlike past games he was on cruise control for the majority of the time today. Still needs to work on those FTs though. 70% doesn't cut it.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Idunkonyou said:


> His team = .500. Unless they are 50+ wins and a top 4 seed in the east, he won't win the MVP. That is reserved for a player with great stats on a great team.


First, they're not .500.

Second, they're currently sitting at #5 in the East, even after they have the hardest part of their schedule, a long West Coast road trip, right at the beginning of the season. I have a hard time believing they won't pass Milwaukee by the end of the season (yeah I'm a homer, but whatever). 

If he keeps this up all season, he should be MVP in my opinion. If you watch the Cavs when he's out of the game, you'll see the true definition of "most valuable".


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Cavs have had a rough schedule so far: lots of back to backs on the road. They're 8-6. If they dont' get anymore injuries (they've been banged up from the beginning of the year and not even mentioning the holdouts), they should at least win as many games as last year as the schedule lightens up. Get 52-54 games with those numbers and the MVP is his


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

adam said:


> Who cares. Neither one is going to change a game with their defense. Kobe didn't play defense for 2 years in a row and only recently started focusing on it once more.
> 
> LeBron has been the better player for 3 years now. Kobe is still our favorite though because he's the only one that can do 60+ in 3 quarters.


Actually Lebron has been changing games with his defense this year. 

Even though he's been having great numbers this year (and today), his defense against Tinsley at the end of the game was the reason we won.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Brandname said:


> Actually Lebron has been changing games with his defense this year.
> 
> Even though he's been having great numbers this year (and today), his defense against Tinsley at the end of the game was the reason we won.


He ate up Tinsley on D at the end of today's game. He's done that to Cassell, Redd, and Davis in the 4th quarter now this year: just very difficult to score on him in iso situations. Guys need a screen to get even a chance of even breaking him off the dribble when the Cavs need stops at the end of games


----------



## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Brandname said:


> Actually Lebron has been changing games with his defense this year.
> 
> Even though he's been having great numbers this year (and today), his defense against Tinsley at the end of the game was the reason we won.


True. I don't want to go down that whole road about Kobe's defense vs. LeBron's but I agree with Brandname that LeBron is changing games with his defense lately and people who still say that he needs to work on it are not watchers.


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Brandname said:


> If he keeps this up all season, he should be MVP in my opinion. If you watch the Cavs when he's out of the game, you'll see the true definition of "most valuable".


Cleveland's offense late 3rd qtr w/ LeBron on the bench was some high level comedy. They were up 9 when he went to the bench, and were down 2 by the time he checked back at the start the 4th qtr. I believe they ended the 3rd qtr with 6 straight possessions w/o gettingn a shot off. All this against one of the worst defensive teams in the league.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

adam said:


> True. I don't want to go down that whole road about Kobe's defense vs. LeBron's but I agree with Brandname that LeBron is changing games with his defense lately and people who still say that he needs to work on it are not watchers.


Yeah, I'm not really into the whole Lebron vs. Kobe argument anyway. I like them both and I think they're 2 of the absolute top perimeter players in the game, with a healthy Dwyane Wade up there as well.

I just want to sit back and appreciate what the guy is doing for my team right now. Without him, we would seriously be getting blown out every night. This is a team without any other creator, really.


----------



## iloveu (Aug 28, 2004)

I ranked them about even last year. But now Lebron's D has caught up to his offense. It's still pretty early in the season to jump the gun though.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

SPMJ said:


> Cleveland's offense late 3rd qtr w/ LeBron on the bench was some high level comedy. They were up 9 when he went to the bench, and were down 2 by the time he checked back at the start the 4th qtr. I believe they ended the 3rd qtr with 6 straight possessions w/o gettingn a shot off. All this against one of the worst defensive teams in the league.


No kidding.

Mike Brown still has some serious work to do. Some of the lineups he was putting out there were just disgusting. Dan Gibson, our best shooter, was isolated on Marquis Daniels on like 5 straight possessions and he ends up fouling out. 

We were pretty lucky to come out with a win today, all things considered.


----------



## HispanicCausinPanic (Jul 2, 2005)

Kobe still has that killer's mentality! He is all business on the court. Cut-throat!


----------



## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I am running out of superlatives for Lebron, but man he is that dude. I wonder what he can do when he finally gets a summer off from ball and just to work on his shooting aspects. He still is the closest player to Larry Bird I've seen since the Legend himself. If you remove the shooting aspect, the way he plays the game is just remarkable.

He would be the MVP to me if he keeps this up, regardless of the Cavs record.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

HKF said:


> I am running out of superlatives for Lebron, but man he is that dude. I wonder what he can do when he finally gets a summer off from ball and just to work on his shooting aspects. He still is the closest player to Larry Bird I've seen since the Legend himself. If you remove the shooting aspect, the way he plays the game is just remarkable.
> 
> He would be the MVP to me if he keeps this up, regardless of the Cavs record.


I actually thought your boy Granger did a good job on him: forced him into a lot of tough shots or just slowed him down enough that he had to shoot with the shot clock running. He's a tough defender: for a tall rangy guy Granger moves his feet well as Benedict_Boozer pointed out in our Cavs game thread


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

HKF said:


> I am running out of superlatives for Lebron, but man he is that dude. I wonder what he can do when he finally gets a summer off from ball and just to work on his shooting aspects. He still is the closest player to Larry Bird I've seen since the Legend himself. If you remove the shooting aspect, the way he plays the game is just remarkable.
> 
> He would be the MVP to me if he keeps this up, regardless of the Cavs record.


Larry Bird is a great comparison for his floor game. With a little bit of Barkley thrown in there with the way he pushes it on the fastbreak. 

100% different player from Jordan in terms of style and even Magic Johnson really


----------



## HB (May 1, 2004)

I think he is the MVP. Dont know if he is better than Kobe though. The Lakers are doing quite well in the West


----------



## TiMVP2 (Jun 19, 2003)

Yi.


----------



## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

Lebron is at an mvp level right now. Weird, when I said last year his potential was a lot better than what we'd seen from him people didn't agree. He sure looks a lot more well rounded this year including on the defensive end.


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

bron has turned into wise lebron this year!


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

30 11 10 today. james you statwhore! lol


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

DuMa said:


> bron has turned into wise lebron this year!


LOL

Funny you said this, a few nights ago while I was looking at his stats the past few games, and it hit me and reminded me of Lebron's commercial where the wise Bron was talking about averaging a quadruple double in a season, and the playa, player and baby Brons were dissing him.

Sure enough the premise of that commercial is slowly becoming a reality.


I still believe that this just 70% of what Lebron is capable of doing. Imagine this kid at age 27. Scary.


----------



## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

KOBEDUNKEDONSHAQ said:


> LOL
> 
> Funny you said this, a few nights ago while I was looking at his stats the past few games, and it hit me and reminded me of Lebron's commercial where the wise Bron was talking about averaging a quadruple double in a season, and the playa, player and baby Brons were dissing him.
> 
> ...


Just had to fix that.


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Tragedy said:


> Just had to fix that.


Haha. Its a possibility indeed. But id rather see him in LA :biggrin:


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

As of right now, LBJ is playing better than Kobe Bryant. Wether or not it makes him a better player is to be seen till the end of the regular season...


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Interesting tidbit:

In tonight's win against Indiana (where LBJ had another monstruous game), he had Gooden going for 23-12; Pavlovic went for 22-5; the team shot .5423PFG% (LBJ went 1-6).

Hmmmm...


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

PauloCatarino said:


> Interesting tidbit:
> 
> In tonight's win against Indiana (where LBJ had another monstruous game), he had Gooden going for 23-12; Pavlovic went for 22-5; the team shot .5423PFG% (LBJ went 1-6).
> 
> Hmmmm...


Yep, LBJ would have always had a lot more triple doubles if guys hit their open shots. We've just never really been able to do that in the past.

So far this year, guys are hitting open shots (getting Dan Gibson is a huge part of this), and Lebron's assists have jumped up by almost 2 per game.


----------



## Theonee (Dec 5, 2006)

It is only 13 games into the season, lets wait atleast till all star to make any judgments.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Brandname said:


> Yep, LBJ would have always had a lot more triple doubles if guys hit their open shots. We've just never really been able to do that in the past.
> 
> So far this year, guys are hitting open shots (getting Dan Gibson is a huge part of this), and Lebron's assists have jumped up by almost 2 per game.


Well, that's the thing, really... IMHO, Kobe's playing tentatively (sp?), not knowing what to expect from his players... Lebron seems much more accustomed to guys around him... 

IMHO, it's too early to tell... Maybe by the All Star break things can be defined...


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

I don't know why everyone is concerned with who is "better".

Kobe and Lebron play 2 different roles for their teams. In my opinion, they're both doing pretty much everything they can to help their team win, so I don't really see the need to make the distinction.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Brandname said:


> I don't know why everyone is concerned with who is "better".
> 
> Kobe and Lebron play 2 different roles for their teams. In my opinion, they're both doing pretty much everything they can to help their team win, so I don't really see the need to make the distinction.


Like Cristophe Lambert would say: "There shall be only one"...


----------



## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

While I'm a big fan of numbers, comparing two players of such high caliber with numbers IMO does not do them justice. Kobe and LeBron both bring to the floor so much more than just what appears on the stat sheet. For example, you can't measure how many adjustments a team has to make when comparing the two players. Nor can points be a real great indicator of value when either one or both players hold off their offensive games until the 4th quarter. Personally, I still think Kobe is the better player because of his ability to dominate a game, with or without the ball.


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Id take Lebron overall if you want astonishing skill set in a player, but Kobe's still a little bit more savy because he can really lock up a defender if he wants to, im talking about DPOY type of lockdown. Lebron on the other hand is a solid defender. He doesnt really do anything special defensively that really sets him apart among the leagues elite, but at the same time he's beggining to be a real reliable man to man defender (at this point however his strengths are on the help side of the defense) 


The thing that impresses me the most with Bron is that despite virtually being involved in all facets of the game(Scoring,passing,rebounding), he still has a lot of energy to expose defensively. Kobe simply does not have that explosiveness anymore for obvious reasons (mileage) and injury (Kobe has tendinitis right now)


I think right now, it is a bit unfair to compare both because again A. Lebron is way younger thus has a fresher legs, and B. Kobe is playing a bit submissive due to Phil Jacksons liking.



I think people should just remember that both players does have different roles in their respective teams. Kobe has been really passive offensively this year and has focused more in involving his teammates and of course upping the ante in defense. His 30.4 ppg 7.0 rpg 5.2 apg and 2.85 spg in 5 games were great numbers early this year, things have since dropped because of Lamar Odom's involvement after coming back.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

This is weird why is Kobes net +/- negative?
On court: +3.5
Off court: +16.8
Net: -13.3

Scrubs scoring a lot of points in blowouts?


----------



## essbee (Oct 30, 2006)

Pioneer10 said:


> This is weird why is Kobes net +/- negative?
> On court: +3.5
> Off court: +16.8
> Net: -13.3
> ...


they have one of the highest scoring benches in the league don't they?


----------



## Feed_Dwight (Oct 14, 2005)

IMO, Kobe is still the best individual player. However, LBJ is a much better team player, and this is a team game.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Pioneer10 said:


> This is weird why is Kobes net +/- negative?
> On court: +3.5
> Off court: +16.8
> Net: -13.3
> ...


No, his team plays the triangle when he's out of the game.... when he's in, he shoots 42% from the field..... on almost half the team's shots.


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

Kobe choked away the FT that wouldve tied the game tonite.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Well both Lebron and Kobe missed critical FTs in their games today.

Maybe we jinxed them? (I know I did in the Cleveland game thread, lol)


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

LeBron has definitely been playing better this year, this is the best he's ever played. I'd be real shocked if he ended the season with 31/8/8/50%, but assuming he comes back down to earth, it's still pretty close between the two. Though LeBron should get credit for his improved defense this year, it really has gone another step forward if you watch Cavs games at all.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

DuMa said:


> Kobe choked away the FT that wouldve tied the game tonite.


For how much you dislike Kobe, you are oddly obsessed with him, including your stealth lurking in the Laker forum.


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

EHL said:


> For how much you dislike Kobe, you are oddly obsessed with him, including your stealth lurking in the Laker forum.


i lurk in all the subforum team game threads when im watching the actual game.


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

essbee said:


> they have one of the highest scoring benches in the league don't they?


Bingo, having Andrew Bynum's double-double and consistent low post offense off the bench was such a huge luxury. As long as Kwame could play competently with the starters, Bynum could kill the other's second unit.

Bynum can't play with guys like Odom and Kobe, they don't ever give him the ball, the guy needs to come off the bench again, and the team needs to start Mihm.


----------



## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

LeBron has clearly been better this season, although Kobe hasn't been playing as well this year. Let him hit his stride and let LeBron come down to earth a little bit then we'll revisit this. November isn't the time for definitive statements like this or else Tim Duncan would fall out of the top power forward spot every year behind guys like Carlos Boozer.


----------



## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

lebron has been better since his 31/7/7 year. ppl always give kobe the benefit of the doubt since shaq left. all he has done was score a lot of points taking bad shots. im pretty sure if in past seasons lebron took as many shots, he would score more points, while averaging more in other stats. and kobe is an anverage to below average defender. when he is not grabbing, spitting, clawing, biting, pinshing, choking, scraping, chewing, holding, clipping, and scratching ppl, he gets blown by a LOT. very overrated defensively. ive seen lebron guard dirk to success. but brown doesn't make him guard him a lot. i feel he should do this in the 4th quarter. coaches can be so stupid...


----------



## unluckyseventeen (Feb 5, 2006)

LeBron is the most talented player in the NBA.

Kobe is also very talented, but I think the only reason this thread popped up is beacuse LeBron has been forced to be the Cavaliers' entire team this season, while Kobe hasn't had to do the same for LA.

LeBron's stats are ridiculous, but you all know that Kobe could do the same if he needed to.


----------



## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

As a side note, for all the talk about how well the Lakers are doing, Cleveland is now 8-6... Lakers are now 7-6...


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Hibachi! said:


> As a side note, for all the talk about how well the Lakers are doing, Cleveland is now 8-6... Lakers are now 7-6...


There was talk before the Lakers dropped three straight.


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

duncan2k5 said:


> lebron has been better since his 31/7/7 year. ppl always give kobe the benefit of the doubt since shaq left. all he has done was score a lot of points taking bad shots. im pretty sure if in past seasons lebron took as many shots, he would score more points, while averaging more in other stats. and kobe is an anverage to below average defender. *when he is not grabbing, spitting, clawing, biting, pinshing, choking, scraping, chewing, holding, clipping, and scratching ppl, he gets blown by a LOT*. very overrated defensively. ive seen lebron guard dirk to success. but brown doesn't make him guard him a lot. i feel he should do this in the 4th quarter. coaches can be so stupid...


Bruce Bowen anyone?


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Drewbs said:


> Bruce Bowen anyone?


Bowen doesn't get away with nearly as much as Kobe does.There's no other player in the NBA who is allowed to foul as obviously as Kobe does on the perimeter.I could play in the NBA if I was allowed to do things everyone else was punished for.The refs may as well let him carry a nightstick


----------



## LameR (Jan 4, 2004)

I still feel that Kobe's game is better than LeBron's. Their stats may not reflect it at the moment, but I think once the season gets into full swing, it'll balance out a bit more.


----------



## Adol (Nov 25, 2004)

Bron seems to be the more well rounded player, and I'm inclined to say he's surpassed Bryant, but I can't shake the feeling that with the game on the line , when it matters most, I'd rather have Bryant. It's an intangible quality that I can't articulate, and I don't want to use "killer instinct", because Bron has proven in past playoffs that he has it. So I guess that during the course of a game I'd rather have Bron, but in the last 2 minutes I'd rather have Kobe. A good comparison would be Shaq and Kobe during their three peat.


----------



## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

Adol said:


> Bron seems to be the more well rounded player, and I'm inclined to say he's surpassed Bryant, but I can't shake the feeling that with the game on the line , when it matters most, I'd rather have Bryant. It's an intangible quality that I can't articulate, and I don't want to use "killer instinct", because Bron has proven in past playoffs that he has it. So I guess that during the course of a game I'd rather have Bron, but in the last 2 minutes I'd rather have Kobe. A good comparison would be Shaq and Kobe during their three peat.


you make a good point...basically, i think it boils down to who has the better jumper, and i think kobe has the best jumper in the league...



> ...So I guess that during the course of a game I'd rather have Bron, but in the last 2 minutes I'd rather have Kobe...


exactly my thoughts...


----------



## Excel (Aug 5, 2002)

Bron is now a triple double threat.


----------



## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

Excel said:


> Bron is now a triple double threat.


he's always been a 3-dub threat...


----------



## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

Diable said:


> Bowen doesn't get away with nearly as much as Kobe does.There's no other player in the NBA who is allowed to foul as obviously as Kobe does on the perimeter.I could play in the NBA if I was allowed to do things everyone else was punished for.The refs may as well let him carry a nightstick



Please tell me you're joking.

Please.


Bowen gets away with sexual assault on the court. Kobe doesn't.

Maybe he does off the court, but on the court, no.






























Sorry, couldn't resist that last part.:biggrin:


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Diable said:


> Bowen doesn't get away with nearly as much as Kobe does.There's no other player in the NBA who is allowed to foul as obviously as Kobe does on the perimeter.I could play in the NBA if I was allowed to do things everyone else was punished for.The refs may as well let him carry a nightstick


Prime example of someone making a indicative assumption but does not actually watch a game to solidify his statement.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

Kobe may get a little more leeway when it comes to his histrionics after the foul is called but he still gets called for tic tac bull**** calls just as much as any other player.


----------



## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

Diable said:


> Bowen doesn't get away with nearly as much as Kobe does.There's no other player in the NBA who is allowed to foul as obviously as Kobe does on the perimeter.I could play in the NBA if I was allowed to do things everyone else was punished for.The refs may as well let him carry a nightstick


Jason Kidd gets away with a lot on the defensive end.


----------



## arhie (Jul 4, 2006)

Taking over a game by crushing the other teams heart: Kobe> Lebron
Winning the game by overall presence: Lebron> Kobe
Rebounding: Lebron> Kobe
Unselfishness: Lebron> Kobe
Vision: Lebron> Kobe
Defense: Lebron > Kobe (overrated no matter what epopel say)
Intensity: Kobe> Lebron (people often confuse intensity with good defense- they are correlated but not the same)
Scoring potential: Kobe > Lebron
Getting to the paint: Kobe > Lebron
Passing lanes: Lebron> Kobe
Fastbreak: Lebron> Kobe
Leadership: Lebron> Kobe
Potential: Lebron> Kobe
REsiliency: Lebron> Kobe
Adjustments for teams: Kobe> Lebron
4th quarter heroics: Kobe> Lebron
Last second smarts: Lebron> Kobe
How mcuh the team would miss the player: Lebron> Kobe
18 categories: Lebron:12, Kobe: 6, Lebron James wins.


----------



## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

arhie said:


> Last second smarts: Lebron> Kobe


Kobe knows what how to get off the shot. LeBron's gamewinners are all lay-ups. When he goes for a J it's off (like the Miami game or in the Finals) or he forces some weird one handed **** (like Team USA thing and Detroit Game 2). Kobe knows how to get the shot off.


----------



## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

The way Lebron is playing right now, I don't think very many players have EVER been on this level.

Right now I'd give it to Lebron. Ask me again at all star break.


----------



## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Diable said:


> Bowen doesn't get away with nearly as much as Kobe does.There's no other player in the NBA who is allowed to foul as obviously as Kobe does on the perimeter.I could play in the NBA if I was allowed to do things everyone else was punished for.The refs may as well let him carry a nightstick


:krazy:


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

giordun said:


> Kobe knows what how to get off the shot. LeBron's gamewinners are all lay-ups. When he goes for a J it's off (like the Miami game or in the Finals) or he forces some weird one handed **** (like Team USA thing and Detroit Game 2). Kobe knows how to get the shot off.


Did you watch the game this weekend where Lebron hit a windshielf wiper move J from the top of the key that all but sealed the deal with 2 seconds remaining?

So not sure how applicable that is. Rather have a guy going for layups to win the game than jumpshots. Layups are higher percentage shots. Lebron probably has more game winning or tying dunks and layups than Kobe has jumpshots already.

And as far as intensity, I think this season Lebron is more intense than Kobe. You'd have to be to do what he's doing.


----------



## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

arhie said:


> Taking over a game by crushing the other teams heart: Kobe> Lebron
> Winning the game by overall presence: Lebron> Kobe
> Rebounding: Lebron> Kobe
> Unselfishness: Lebron> Kobe
> ...



pretty darn accurate except the highlighted part...a younger kobe was always getting in to the paint...but even a younger kobe got in to the paint as much as a now lebron...and these days, i think lebron gets to the paint more than a now kobe...


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Lebron lives in the paint.


----------



## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> Lebron lives in the paint.


i think you worded it better than i, but yes....agreed...


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

lebron is more adept to getting into the lane than kobe. i havent seen kobe consistently penetrate this year anymore.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Kobe and Lebron is a strange comparison in some ways as they don't play anything a like.

Lebron looks to drive to setup his teammates or go for the and 1. His jumper has improved but it's a secondary component to his game. He really is a point forward and has always played that way even though he is probably the best finisher on the break in the league.

Kobe on the other hand is looking to score and he does it off his jumpshot both at the 3 point line and in the midrange game (Lebron doesn't really have any sort of midrange game). In an ideal world, they actually would fit very well as teammates as Lebron's drive and dish game this year would complement Kobe's more gunnerish perimeter style quite well


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Pioneer10 said:


> Kobe and Lebron is a strange comparison in some ways as they don't play anything a like.
> 
> Lebron looks to drive to setup his teammates or go for the and 1. His jumper has improved but it's a secondary component to his game. He really is a point forward and has always played that way even though he is probably the best finisher on the break in the league.
> 
> Kobe on the other hand is looking to score and he does it off his jumpshot both at the 3 point line and in the midrange game (Lebron doesn't really have any sort of midrange game). * In an ideal world, they actually would fit very well as teammates* as Lebron's drive and dish game this year would complement Kobe's more gunnerish perimeter style quite well


Get it done Ferry!


----------



## SamTheMan67 (Jan 4, 2004)

that would be the most terrible duo in the league. lebron needs the ball in his hands to create, and if he doesn't he needs a creator (like jkidd) to dish to him for easy buckets. kobe needs the balls at all times to score. not really the correct legos for one another


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

SamTheMan67 said:


> that would be the most terrible duo in the league. lebron needs the ball in his hands to create, and if he doesn't he needs a creator (like jkidd) to dish to him for easy buckets. kobe needs the balls at all times to score. not really the correct legos for one another


Kobe doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective. I don't personally like the guy but the dude can score quickly and in so many ways that he would do perfectly well with someone setting him up. Lebron doesn't need the ball in his hands either but the difference is that Lebron is much more of natural playmaker: he tries to do the correct play every single time even at the end of games when commentators would prefer he shoot.


----------



## Nutritionals (May 9, 2005)

> that would be the most terrible duo in the league. lebron needs the ball in his hands to create, and if he doesn't he needs a creator (like jkidd) to dish to him for easy buckets. kobe needs the balls at all times to score. not really the correct legos for one another


What? Are you one of the people that thought Boston would suck? I mean, Kobe won 3 rings with Shaq, he would win 5 with Lebron. Your insane to over think this buddy, the top two players in the league wouldn't be good together??? What are you smoking bro?


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

They sure looked pretty good playing together this summer.


----------



## KillWill (Jul 1, 2003)

i know i say this every time one of these pops up. i missed fully enjoying great players in my youth b/c of team loyalties and blinding hatred. let's enjoy these two guys while they're here. 

consider sean taylor. 24, on the verge of becoming the next best defensive player in the nfl. gone. game over. 

kobe has accrued lots of mileage over the years and has had several injuries/surgeries. i think by now, he undestands how to pace himself and temper his fire a bit. i have been waiting for the emergence of the next big o, or magic, and he might be here now. the last thing i want to imply is that lebron will be slowed by injuries, but it's possible and in fact very likely. props to lbj. hope he keeps it up. (and what a combo boozer and him could have been. yikes.) 

you hate only b/c you want to love.


----------



## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

ok...the same way lebron can be slowed by injuries...SO CAN KOBE OR ANYONE ELSE!!! its silly to say ppl should not talk about a player's potential because of soemthing like an injury...that can happen to anyone. and kobe would not fit well with lebron. if lebron was to ever go to LA, kobe would want to show he is top dog. both would want the ball in their hands. kobe will never get it. every year laker fans talk about him gettin more mature, and every year he throws a childish tantrum. he's been in teh L for almost 11 years now...he will NEVER get it.












by the way, all hail king james.


----------



## KillWill (Jul 1, 2003)

duncan2k5; said:


> ok...the same way lebron can be slowed by injuries...SO CAN KOBE OR ANYONE ELSE!!! its silly to say ppl should not talk about a player's potential because (i'm gay) of soemthing like an injury...that can happen to anyone. and kobe would not fit well with lebron. if lebron was to ever go to LA, kobe would want to show he is top dog. both would want the ball in their hands. kobe will never get it. every year laker fans talk about him gettin more mature, and every year he throws a childish tantrum. he's been in teh L for almost 11 years now...he will NEVER get it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


with the amount of tantrums you throw, i would assume you modeled YOUR game after the kobster.


----------



## SamTheMan67 (Jan 4, 2004)

Nutritionals said:


> What? Are you one of the people that thought Boston would suck? I mean, Kobe won 3 rings with Shaq, he would win 5 with Lebron. Your insane to over think this buddy, the top two players in the league wouldn't be good together??? What are you smoking bro?


No i thought boston would be good. They were good over the summer because jkidd had the ball in his hands and can make everyone effective, but I would much rather have kg on our team rather than kobe just a better compliment


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I think Lebron and Kobe would work. Especially defensively. But Kidd and Lebron would REALLY work. They have great chemistry. Kidd would force the Cavs to fast break with Lebron as a finisher, and there's probably nothing he does better than finish on the break. He could probably average 35 a game on a really high percentage playing with Kidd. He'd still get assists, because that's just how he is. The Cavs overall ball movement would be amazing with Kidd.


----------



## Jordan23Forever (May 14, 2005)

unluckyseventeen said:


> LeBron's stats are ridiculous, but you all know that Kobe could do the same if he needed to.


Do we now? Evidence?


----------



## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

if kobe could do what lebron could do, he would be doing it. cut this crap about "if he wanted/needed to". plz.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Jordan23Forever said:


> Do we now? Evidence?


**** Jordan.... this is KOBE we're talking about here! Of course he can do anything if he wanted to do it!


----------



## arhie (Jul 4, 2006)

Sorry there are just some things that Kobe cannot do that Lebron can, and as of right now the same can be said Vice versa. Until the other guy proves it its all speculation. Lebron is on a tear right now, and Kobe has never had these type of numbers during any 10-12 game stretch of his career, and hes a vet. So you can't really say he can do it. Lebron on the ohter hand has time to put up 4 str8 50 point games if he wants. I doubt he will, but he has time to do it. He might not be able to have killer games like Kobe , but I am pretty confident that he will have a season where he will avearage 35ppg or more, and it will be more efficiently than Kobe's.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Heading into the Boston game, Lebrons PER was 31.98

To put that into perspective, the best PER Jordan had was 31.71 in 87-88 and the best PER in *league history* was 31.84 by Wilt in 62-63. 

And Lebron is 22..


----------



## TakaraJinRoh (Nov 27, 2007)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> Heading into the Boston game, Lebrons PER was 31.98
> 
> To put that into perspective, the best PER Jordan had was 31.71 in 87-88 and the best PER in *league history* was 31.84 by Wilt in 62-63.
> 
> And Lebron is 22..


Yeah. Except they all did that in a span of a full season.

Lebron hasnt.


----------



## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

LeBron can't hit a gamewinning shot not called a lay up to save his life.

Team USA White VS Blue scrimmage
Finals Game 4
Pistons Game 2
Miami Game
and this game.
All missed

All his gamewinners
Detroit Game 5, lay up.
Wizards playoffs travel lay ups


----------



## lovebball (Nov 26, 2006)

wasnt lebron's first game winner a jumper??? And why would you prefer a jumper over a layup anyway???


----------



## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

TakaraJinRoh said:


> Yeah. Except they all did that in a span of a full season.
> 
> Lebron hasnt.


He doesn't need to average 38/10/10 to have a PER of 32, he was well above that mark in the last 10 games. I doubt he can't keep that up unless the Cavs get someone really good in return for Varejao.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

giordun said:


> LeBron can't hit a gamewinning shot not called a lay up to save his life.
> 
> Team USA White VS Blue scrimmage
> Finals Game 4
> ...


<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/P3Bl2MvTsHs&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/P3Bl2MvTsHs&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0C52RQ4z-so&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0C52RQ4z-so&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

The J at the end:
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8f73Sn3_Tsc&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8f73Sn3_Tsc&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Also who cares if he takes more layup gamewinners? 2pts is 2pts and he's proven he can get the layup game winner against anybody.


----------



## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

futuristxen said:


> The J at the end:
> <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8f73Sn3_Tsc&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8f73Sn3_Tsc&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
> 
> Also who cares if he takes more layup gamewinners? 2pts is 2pts and he's proven he can get the layup game winner against anybody.


There's a lot less pressure on that shot since they're already up.

Js are important cause sometimes there just isn't enough time for you to drive, and LeBron can't seem to create a J when his team is down or tied. That Toronto one is nice, but your team is up and you have a lot more courage to take that.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

giordun said:


> There's a lot less pressure on that shot since they're already up.
> 
> Js are important cause sometimes there just isn't enough time for you to drive, and LeBron can't seem to create a J when his team is down or tied. That Toronto one is nice, but your team is up and you have a lot more courage to take that.


Wow.

Yeah, no pressure in any of those shots. Did you happen to watch Game 5 of the ECF? You know, when Lebron kept hitting pressure-packed jumper after jumper to keep his team in the game?

Weird you don't talk about the Chicago game. And how about the Utah game just a week or two ago?

You might want to stop now because you're fighting a losing battle by trying to make some kind of point here.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

What are Lebron's current season averages?


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

giordun said:


> There's a lot less pressure on that shot since they're already up.
> 
> Js are important cause sometimes there just isn't enough time for you to drive, and LeBron can't seem to create a J when his team is down or tied. That Toronto one is nice, but your team is up and you have a lot more courage to take that.


True to an extent, but if you can get to the basket for a higher percentage shot, then why don't you? You can't criticize him for driving in those situations, because in all honesty, its the smart thing to do. And you know what, if there is only a second left on the clock, I doubt Lebron ever tries to drive it in, and run out of time. Kobe loves to shoot last second jumpshots, but with 5 seconds left on the clock and a defender hounding him, 9 times out of 10 a double ready to come as soon as the ball is put on the floor, he easily has enough time to put the ball on the floor and 1) get to the basket if help doesn't come, 2) make the pass if the double does come. Instead, 9/10, he will hoist up a long contested jumper, even with enough time for him to make a smarter move. You might have to have a lot of courage to take that sort of shot, but honestly, is that good basketball?


Maybe you would like Lebron more if the form on his shot weren't so bad. I know I would.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> What are Lebron's current season averages?


Right now, Lebron is sitting at:

31.7 pts / 8.0 reb / 8.5 asst / 2.07 stl / 1.6 blk

With a 32.52 PER.

EDIT - And he's shooting 80.5% from the line in his last 7 games.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Brandname said:


> Right now, Lebron is sitting at:
> 
> 31.7 pts / 8.0 reb / 8.5 asst / 2.07 stl / 1.6 blk
> 
> ...


He can maintain that average over the season I think. If he keeps his freethrow shooting up and continues to work on the defensive glass.


----------



## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

lebron has 4 triple doubles this season...in two other games, he was only 1 assist from a triple double...lebron is pretty good...


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

LOL @ people thinking Lebron is better than Kobe defensively.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

KOBEDUNKEDONSHAQ said:


> LOL @ people thinking Lebron is better than Kobe defensively.


LOL at you think he's not.


----------



## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

KOBEDUNKEDONSHAQ said:


> LOL @ people thinking Lebron is better than Kobe defensively.


i don't know man, lebron has looked impressive this year defensively...i've seen both and this year, at least right now, lebron is playing better...the gap isn't that big, but still distinguishable...


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Brandname said:


> Right now, Lebron is sitting at:
> 
> 31.7 pts / 8.0 reb / 8.5 asst / 2.07 stl / 1.6 blk
> 
> ...


Man, you guys drive me nuts!!!

It's the Nate Archibald syndrom all over again!

You are talking about a guy who went for 22ppg in .356FG% with close to 6Topg in a Finals' utterly embarrassing display as if he was the best thing in Earth since sliced bread!

Get a grip, yo!

Who the **** cares about a-fifth-of-the-season-or-such averages?


----------



## Air Jordan 23 (Dec 12, 2006)

TakaraJinRoh said:


> Yeah. Except they all did that in a span of a full season.
> 
> Lebron hasnt.



Bingo.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

PauloCatarino said:


> Man, you guys drive me nuts!!!
> 
> It's the Nate Archibald syndrom all over again!
> 
> ...


Well it's a larger sample than a 4 game finals series.

But anyway, I'm not even talking about him like he's the best player ever or something like that. If you ask me, I'll tell you that I have a hard time believing he'll keep these numbers up over the course of a full season. 

It's not bad to acknowledge the great season he's had so far, as long as you keep it in perspective. I'd say he has a great chance to make history this year, but it will be very, very hard and he's gonna have to bring it every night. Stay tuned for more...


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

KOBEDUNKEDONSHAQ said:


> LOL @ people thinking Lebron is better than Kobe defensively.


I don't think you've watched him for many games this season. Kobe's been great this year, but I've watched both on several occasions and I think they're right on par with each other. 2 of the top wing defenders this year for sure. 

From what I've seen this year, Kobe has really moved his feet well on defense. Even really quick guys are having trouble taking him off the dribble because he's lean and always in front of his man. He's made some spectacular plays as well (I love the block on Yao). 

Lebron on the other hand can't move as quickly as Kobe. But he's been more of a brick wall on defense this year. When someone tries to go at him now, he will push right back. He's stopped everyone who's tried to go up against him, including Pierce most recently last night. 

I don't have to downplay Kobe's defensive accomplishments to acknowledge Lebron's. The difference for both of them is that defense is a focus this year, and given their athletic gifts it's no surprise that they're both dominating defensively.


----------



## JPSeraph (Dec 17, 2005)

I think LeBron's overall value to his team is probably better than Kobe's, but I'd still give Kobe the nod for being a much more skilled player. It's not a knock on LeBron, but Kobe's got eight years in the League on him and he's simply the best at this point.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Wow, Lebron goes out with injury, and the Cavs are getting KILLED. He doesn't come back in after halftime and it looks like varsity vs. JV. 

If that's not the true definition of 'valuable', I don't know what is. This team looks like *** when he's out.


----------



## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

LeBron's numbers are gonna take a hit after tonight's injury. Abt 1 point down in scoring. .5 down in rebounds and assists. But I guess he did gain something in the MVP race. Cleveland in this 2nd half without him :laugh:. Outscored 61-31. LeBron gives a whole new meaning to the word "valuable". Saunders took pity and pulled his starters out very early. Otherwise Cleveland's looking at loss of 40+ points(lost by 35). It was a 5 point game at the half.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

That was completely embarrassing. 

You shouldn't get outscored by *30 IN ONE HALF* if one of your players goes down with injury. That's scary.


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

whats the severity of lebron's injury?


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

DuMa said:


> whats the severity of lebron's injury?


MRI scheduled for tomorrow morning to determine whether there's any tearing.


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

Brandname said:


> MRI scheduled for tomorrow morning to determine whether there's any tearing.


knee or ankle? 

that blows


----------



## JPSeraph (Dec 17, 2005)

DuMa said:


> knee or ankle?
> 
> that blows


left index finger...relax :wink:


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

DuMa said:


> knee or ankle?
> 
> that blows


haha I would be freaking out if it was a knee or something like that.


----------



## DuMa (Dec 25, 2004)

JPSeraph said:


> left index finger...relax :wink:


jesus what a save. my fantasy team cant afford to have lebron out.


----------



## JPSeraph (Dec 17, 2005)

Same here. LeBron is incredible so far this season. :king:


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

I was just about to say that it almost seems as if the only thing stopping him from putting up these numbers would be an injury. That sucks, but if he didn't come back I would assume it has to be pretty serious?


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

I understood that x-rays were negative and it was just a sprained finger.Cleveland probably can't win a game against a decent team unless Lebron dresses in the phonebooth and comes outs more powerful than a speeding locomotive so they won't be winning many games he doesn't play.


----------



## JPSeraph (Dec 17, 2005)

If LeBron's out they'll have to dust off Larry Hughes and see if he can earn his paycheck. :uhoh:


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Hahaha Jeez. That's ridiculous how much he means to the team. They are still that 15 win team they were when he got drafted.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

EHL said:


> I was just about to say that it almost seems as if the only thing stopping him from putting up these numbers would be an injury. That sucks, but if he didn't come back I would assume it has to be pretty serious?


I don't think they know. Maybe they're just being overly cautious (who can blame them) and didn't want him to risk injuring it further in case there was any ligament damage or anything like that. I guess we'll find out with the MRI results today.


----------



## KillWill (Jul 1, 2003)

still, which guy do you want to take the last shot with the game on the line?

(sorry lakers fans, horry is not an option)


----------



## bootstrenf (May 24, 2006)

KillWill said:


> still, which guy do you want to take the last shot with the game on the line?
> 
> (sorry lakers fans, horry is not an option)


like i said before, kobe, no question...at least as of right now...who knows what kind of jumper lebron will be able to develop...


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Brandname said:


> I don't have to downplay Kobe's defensive accomplishments to acknowledge Lebron's. The difference for both of them is that defense is a focus this year, and given their athletic gifts it's no surprise that they're both dominating defensively.



I could understand that Lebron is on par with Kobe's defense. Truthfully that seems to be a valid and acceptable statement. But saying Lebron has the upper hand on Kobe is another thing. Lebron's numbers are blowing Kobe's out of the water, true, but that doesnt mean people should just forget one aspect where both excells.


Kobe has been great this year, his intensity defensively carrying from Team USA's success last summer has been impressive, if you watched that then Im sure you know what im referring to. His rededication in that category is one of the main reasons why we see a drop in points and shots attempt per game, (along with his insistence to involve his teammates more). Cant really say the same the past few games, because Kobe's lateral quickness has not been up to his standard because of his tendinitis.


That was just my point. This was not about downplaying anybody's game.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Lebron has flat out been playing better defense this season than Kobe has played at any time post-having Shaq behind him to protect his butt.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

You may take Kobe for the last shot, but if I put James on him, that shot might just get blocked. If I want a game winning defensive play, right now that's gotta be James. He can do it with the steal, the positioning, the muscle, any position, and the block. as well as rebounding.


----------



## Blazed (May 24, 2006)

Until LeBron makes up for the NBA Finals worst all time performance by a star player he doesn't deserve to be in the conversation. Right now he's nothing but a guy putting up good stats in the regular season, the first half of the season at that.

Kobe and Jordan never choked in the Finals the way LeBron did. It just wouldn't happen, those players had the killer instinct. LeBron seems to be lacking in that department.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> *You may take Kobe for the last shot, but if I put James on him, that shot might just get blocked. * If I want a game winning defensive play, right now that's gotta be James. He can do it with the steal, the positioning, the muscle, any position, and the block. as well as rebounding.


When was the last time Kobe got blocked for the final shot?


----------



## Blazed (May 24, 2006)

PauloCatarino said:


> When was the last time Kobe got blocked for the final shot?


When was the last time LeBron was good on defense? Oh, that's right, NEVER!


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

PauloCatarino said:


> When was the last time Kobe got blocked for the final shot?


I don't know, but this is pretty great:

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nGmal8Q9_ZU&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nGmal8Q9_ZU&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> I don't know, but this is pretty great:
> 
> <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nGmal8Q9_ZU&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nGmal8Q9_ZU&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>



Oh, goodie! Kobe getting blocked in a shot!! 

Now, what does that have anything to do with my post?


----------



## Blazed (May 24, 2006)

Did you seriously just post a preseason play in an attempt to prove your point. Wow!?!?!


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

futuristxen said:


> You may take Kobe for the last shot, but if I put James on him, that shot might just get blocked. If I want a game winning defensive play, right now that's gotta be James. He can do it with the steal, the positioning, the muscle, any position, and the block. as well as rebounding.


:lol::lol::lol:

Oh my god, hilarity keeps ensuing here.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

KOBEDUNKEDONSHAQ said:


> :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> Oh my god, hilarity keeps ensuing here.


Come on, is there a need to gang up on Fruity because she said something stupid? :azdaja:


----------



## Jordan23Forever (May 14, 2005)

Blazed said:


> Until LeBron makes up for the NBA Finals worst all time performance by a star player he doesn't deserve to be in the conversation. Right now he's nothing but a guy putting up good stats in the regular season, the first half of the season at that.
> 
> Kobe and Jordan never choked in the Finals the way LeBron did. It just wouldn't happen, those players had the killer instinct. LeBron seems to be lacking in that department.


Is this a joke? Kobe's 2004 Finals vs. Detroit was clearly worse than Lebron's admittedly terrible 2007 Finals showing.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Blazed said:


> When was the last time LeBron was good on defense? Oh, that's right, NEVER!


You really haven't watched Lebron for the last 2 years if you actually believe what you're posting here. It's really easy to figure out the blind haters when they try to bring up Lebron's defense. This year alone he won games for the Cavs on last minute defensive stands against the Kings, Clippers, Boston, and Utah


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Pioneer10 said:


> It's really easy to figure out the blind haters when they try to bring up Lebron's defense. This year alone he won games for the Cavs on last minute defensive stands against the Kings, Clippers, Boston, and Utah


Same thing can be said for Kobe. He harrased Rip in their win against Detroit, had a solid defensive effort and a crucial block on Kirilenko, put on the clamp on Bell in their huge win over Phoenix. Kobe was also solid against Indiana and Chicago.

So I dont see the reasoning here by other people saying Lebron>Kobe defensively.

Its not like Lebron has been playing DPOY calibre here while Kobe is sleeping.


----------



## Blazed (May 24, 2006)

Pioneer10 said:


> You really haven't watched Lebron for the last 2 years if you actually believe what you're posting here. It's really easy to figure out the blind haters when they try to bring up Lebron's defense. This year alone he won games for the Cavs on last minute defensive stands against the Kings, Clippers, Boston, and Utah


Lebron's defense is average, that is all. It's really easy to figure out the blind homers when they try to bring up Lebron's defense.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

KOBEDUNKEDONSHAQ said:


> Same thing can be said for Kobe. He harrased Rip in their win against Detroit, had a solid defensive effort and a crucial block on Kirilenko, put on the clamp on Bell in their huge win over Phoenix. Kobe was also solid against Indiana and Chicago.
> 
> So I dont see the reasoning here by other people saying Lebron>Kobe defensively.
> 
> Its not like Lebron has been playing DPOY calibre here while Kobe is sleeping.


Did you bother reading the post I replied too? I didn't mention Kobe's defense at all let alone make a comparison btw Kobe's and Lebron's D. There is this persistent myth among people who seem more attuned to attacking a player rather then actually watching a player with regards to Lebron's D. Lebron has been excellent on that side of the game this year whether Kobe and Lebron are better on defense will be hard to determine till the end of the year and we've got a bigger sample size (i'd say they are equal right now)


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

Blazed said:


> Lebron's defense is average, that is all. It's really easy to figure out the blind homers when they try to bring up Lebron's defense.


lol: continue digging yourself into a hole. Anybody whose watched the Cavs this year or last year's playoffs would realize your statement is laughable.

By the way you're posting with total disregard for actually what's happening on the court, I'd have to say we have 23AJ clone coming around


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Pioneer10 said:


> Did you bother reading the post I replied too? I didn't mention Kobe's defense at all let alone make a comparison btw Kobe's and Lebron's D. There is this persistent myth among people who seem more attuned to attacking a player rather then actually watching a player with regards to Lebron's D. Lebron has been excellent on that side of the game this year whether Kobe and Lebron are better on defense will be hard to determine till the end of the year and we've got a bigger sample size (i'd say they are equal right now)


Read carefully, my reply was simply to reiterate my point, since you were making a case about Lebron's performance on defense by posting wins against those teams. So I had to show my point as well why Kobe was equally impressive defensively by showing up on D on those games stated above.


Post was'nt a rebuke at all.


----------



## Pioneer10 (Sep 30, 2004)

KOBEDUNKEDONSHAQ said:


> Read carefully, my reply was simply to reiterate my point, since you were making a case about Lebron's performance on defense by posting wins against those teams. So I had to show my point as well why Kobe was equally impressive defensively by showing up on D on those games stated above.
> 
> 
> Post was'nt a rebuke at all.


Sorry, since you posted this in this forum:


> LOL @ people thinking Lebron is better than Kobe deerfensively.


I figured you were trying pile on since you quoted a post that was mainly trying to point out that no way Lebron can be considered a bad defender now.


----------



## KDOS (Nov 29, 2005)

Pioneer10 said:


> Sorry, since you posted this in this forum:.


You quoted a entirely different post.

Still it is true. Even you cant agree with that notion. See your post below.



Pioneer10 said:


> (i'd say they are equal right now)





Pioneer10 said:


> I figured you were trying pile on since you quoted a post that was mainly trying to point out that no way Lebron can be considered a bad defender now.


Dont have to alter my perception of reality to support my favorite player. In fact all my posts about Lebron has been very positive to say the least.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Blazed said:


> Until LeBron makes up for the NBA Finals worst all time performance by a star player he doesn't deserve to be in the conversation. Right now he's nothing but a guy putting up good stats in the regular season, the first half of the season at that.
> 
> Kobe and Jordan never choked in the Finals the way LeBron did. It just wouldn't happen, those players had the killer instinct. LeBron seems to be lacking in that department.


Very mediocre attempt at a troll.


----------



## KillWill (Jul 1, 2003)

Pioneer10; said:


> Did you bother reading the post I replied too? I didn't mention Kobe's defense at all let alone make a comparison btw Kobe's and Lebron's D. There is this persistent myth among people who seem more attuned to attacking a player rather then actually watching a player with regards to Lebron's D. Lebron has been excellent on that side of the game this year whether Kobe and Lebron are better on defense will be hard to determine till the end of the year and we've got a bigger sample size (i'd say they are equal right now)


can we start to consider "sample size" when lebron gets into double digit years of nba experience?

kobe is by far the more polished all around player. that being said, if lebron doesn't match or surpass kobe by the end of their respective careers i would consider it a major disappointment. he has the body, the brains, and the intestinal fortitude, (not to mention the media love), to live up to all of these otherworldly expectations; he's an otherworldly talent, and in my opinion should.

one-on-one would be a joke. kobe is much to quick and savvy for lebron, and there is no way kobe could deal with lebron's shear strength. i'd love to see it, but i'm fairly sure the game would go to whoever has the ball last. 

still, i can't remember another player who's as hated as kobe since jordan. that says something.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Jordan23Forever said:


> Is this a joke? Kobe's 2004 Finals vs. Detroit was clearly worse than Lebron's admittedly terrible 2007 Finals showing.


LeBron 07 Finals: 22.0ppg/7.0rpg/6.8apg/1.0spg/5.8TO/35.5% FGP
Bryant 04 Finals: 22.6ppg/2.8rpg/4.4apg/1.8spg/3.6TO/38.1% FGP

Yeah, that's "clearly worse"...if you can't interpret statistics. 

Btw fellow LeBron fans, don't take offense, J23F routinely trolls Kobe threads.


----------



## Blazed (May 24, 2006)

Brandname said:


> Very mediocre attempt at a troll.


edit - you had to know that wasn't going to last


----------



## KillWill (Jul 1, 2003)

Blazed; said:


> edit



can you feel the love tonight . . .


----------



## Blazed (May 24, 2006)

KillWill said:


> can you feel the love tonight . . .


Do not mask cursing


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Blazed said:


> edit


You will be booted from here for this, and fast. Good riddance troll.


----------



## KillWill (Jul 1, 2003)

Blazed; said:


> edit



i'm not defending a guy i don't personally know, and yeah, that was over the top, but the truth is, there are some moderators who do get a little to big for their britches around here. i truly hope there is someone to truly monitor the moderators. sometimes they can be just as guilty of "baiting"/"trolling" as the rest of us grunts. we are all here b/c we are fans. check the dictionary. it's short for FANATIC. i don't find any problem at all with a mod rooting for their guy or their squad, but the mud often gets slung both ways, and a few out there (no names necessary) tend to hide behind their titles.


----------



## TakaraJinRoh (Nov 27, 2007)

KillWill said:


> i'm not defending a guy i don't personally know, and yeah, that was over the top, but the truth is, there are some moderators who do get a little to big for their britches around here. i truly hope there is someone to truly monitor the moderators. sometimes they can be just as guilty of "baiting"/"trolling" as the rest of us grunts. we are all here b/c we are fans. check the dictionary. it's short for FANATIC. i don't find any problem at all with a mod rooting for their guy or their squad, but the mud often gets slung both ways, and a few out there (no names necessary) tend to hide behind their titles.


From a guy who has less than 20 posts, I dont think my opinions matter, and to be honest it doesnt matter lol. But I do notice this even before I signed up here. Some of the mods here are just as childish and immature like their members who just posts to get people riled up, and some mods are guilty failing to control the thread before it escalates. The definition of moderating has been forgotten in its truest sense.


But like the old saying goes, " If You dont like it?, then leave" Plus its just a forum, I believe they have other things to really worry about.


----------



## lovebball (Nov 26, 2006)

BTW KOBE choked in the 2004 finals with Shaq around, and when they were the heavily favoured team. Lebron on the other hand, and ughhh Varajaeo, Gooden, Ilgauskas, and Gibson...and it wasnt as if anybody was surprised they lost. And the last time Kobe got blocked on a last shot attempt was by manu, after which he had a awkward follow through and wacked manu in the face and suspended for it. Just pointing out the facts...


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Some of the mods you guys are complaining about aren't mods for this board, so why should they be acting like mods on this board? They're just people who like to talk sports too. So because they moderator a board somewhere on this site they aren't allowed to voice an opinion in another portion of the board? Sorry kids, your revolution is trite and boring, and Lebron is still better than your hero.

And the only people who still hate on Kobe are the delusional psychotic set. The man score 81 points in a game. As a basketball fan you have to give him his due and move on with your life.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

KillWill said:


> i'm not defending a guy i don't personally know, and yeah, that was over the top, but the truth is, there are some moderators who do get a little to big for their britches around here. i truly hope there is someone to truly monitor the moderators. sometimes they can be just as guilty of "baiting"/"trolling" as the rest of us grunts. we are all here b/c we are fans. check the dictionary. it's short for FANATIC. i don't find any problem at all with a mod rooting for their guy or their squad, but the mud often gets slung both ways, and a few out there (no names necessary) tend to hide behind their titles.


If you have specific concerns, please feel free to address me via PM, even if it's about a specific moderator.

If I'm the person that you have a problem with, please let me know what the problem is. I guarantee you that I'll be receptive to your issues, as long as you don't post them like *Blazed *is doing.

I'm a moderator, and it's my job to keep the boards free of inappropriate posts. I'm still allowed to have opinions, and my opinion remains that *Blazed *has been trolling in this thread by making remarks to intentionally be inflammatory.

Now if I had banned him for his opinion or something, I could see a problem there.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Brandname said:


> If you have specific concerns, please feel free to address me via PM, even if it's about a specific moderator.
> 
> If I'm the person that you have a problem with, please let me know what the problem is. I guarantee you that I'll be receptive to your issues, as long as you don't post them like this *(no names necissary) *character is doing.
> 
> ...



There you go. I fixed your post so that you abide by your own rules.


You're welcome.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

R-Star said:


> There you go. I fixed your post so that you abide by your own rules.
> 
> 
> You're welcome.


My own rules? What rules?


----------



## someone (Jul 17, 2007)




----------



## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

Oh I voted for Kobe


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Yeah, it's probably a good idea to get back on topic. 

Anyway, in my opinion, it really boils down to what length of time someone has to produce at a certain level to be considered "official". Obviously if Lebron puts up stats for one game, it doesn't make him better than anyone. On the other hand, if he puts up a 32+ PER with excellent defense throughout the course of an entire season, yeah you gotta say that's pretty official. It probably lies somewhere in between.

I personally think it's still a few too few games to be able to determine anything definitively. When Lebron comes back from his injury, we'll have a better idea of how he's going to play. If it bothers him for a long time, then I'd have to think his production will dip back down to earth. His numbers already came down a little since he only played 15 minutes before getting hurt in the last game, so we'll have to see what happens when he comes back.


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

In terms of defense, Kobe is more of a on the ball type of defense guy whereas Lebron is more of a help defense kind of guy. Both players have played better defense this season than in the last few years. 

Lebron imo, is more of a threat because his game is more varied, he'll be a more productive player, but its hard to say if hes a better player, because he excels in ways that Kobe is flawed. Kobe is a great passer who doesn't pass enough. Kobe is a great slasher who doesn't get into the paint enough. He's spent years adding to his excellent post game, yet prefers to chuck up 3s or get the better shot. With his skill set, touch, and athleticism, he should have been shooting ~48% for the past two seasons. Lebron is different, hes a great AND willing passer, does not settle for bad shots, and utilizes every positive aspect of his game.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Interestingly, even though Kobe tends to take mostly jump shots and doesn't always look for the easiest shot possible, their scoring efficiencies have been very similar over the past few seasons.

IMO it's a testament to Kobe's skill that he can keep up such a high scoring efficiency despite sometimes taking way too many difficult shots (although Lebron isn't always the best at shot selection, either. Wade is miles ahead of both of them in this category.)


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Drewbs said:


> In terms of defense, Kobe is more of a on the ball type of defense guy whereas Lebron is more of a help defense kind of guy. Both players have played better defense this season than in the last few years.


That's just not true anymore though. Lebron is as much an on the ball defender as Kobe. The Cavs put him on whoever is the other teams best player during crunch time or when a guy is really hot. He's their go-to man-to-man defender. He's also their best help-defender. He just covers too much ground on defense to say he only does or can only do one or the other.


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

futuristxen said:


> That's just not true anymore though. Lebron is as much an on the ball defender as Kobe. The Cavs put him on whoever is the other teams best player during crunch time or when a guy is really hot. He's their go-to man-to-man defender. He's also their best help-defender. He just covers too much ground on defense to say he only does or can only do one or the other.


Sure it is. 

Well of course you don't just play help defense and leave your man open, or just play your man and let other guys lay the ball up, I'm just talking about the areas where either player excels on defense. Both players actually do both adequately, but I would much rather have Kobe's lateral quickness in terms of guarding a man.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Drewbs said:


> Sure it is.
> 
> Well of course you don't just play help defense and leave your man open, or just play your man and let other guys lay the ball up, I'm just talking about the areas where either player excels on defense. Both players actually do both adequately, but I would much rather have Kobe's lateral quickness in terms of guarding a man.


Lebron has solved the lateral quickness issue, and he has the added bonus of being incredibly strong so that players can't turn around and back him in. He has locked down at key points in games this year: Kevin Martin, Michael Redd, and Jamal Tinsley--which he couldn't have done so on either player if he had lateral quickness issues.

Plus when a player does get by him, he trails them and blocks their shot like Kirelenko.

Lebron is pretty much a cross between Kirelnko and Artest defensively.


----------



## Blazed (May 24, 2006)

Brandname said:


> If you have specific concerns, please feel free to address me via PM, even if it's about a specific moderator.
> 
> If I'm the person that you have a problem with, please let me know what the problem is. I guarantee you that I'll be receptive to your issues, as long as you don't post them like *Blazed *is doing.
> 
> ...


That's right it is your job to keep the boards free of inappropriate posts, so you shouldn't be posting them and starting fights with people.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Blazed said:


> That's right it is your job to keep the boards free of inappropriate posts, so you shouldn't be posting them and starting fights with people.


tell us what you've contributed here.I don't recall anything of substance personally.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Blazed said:


> Until LeBron makes up for the NBA Finals worst all time performance by a star player he doesn't deserve to be in the conversation. Right now he's nothing but a guy putting up good stats in the regular season, the first half of the season at that.
> 
> Kobe and Jordan never choked in the Finals the way LeBron did. It just wouldn't happen, those players had the killer instinct. LeBron seems to be lacking in that department.





Brandname said:


> Very mediocre attempt at a troll.


Do you know what's funny? You baited him with a troll label and then he went off the deep end. I also agree with part of his post. 
It was most evidenced when the Cavs played the Lakers a few seasons ago. Kobe had that different gear that LeBron doesn't. He doesn't have that killer instinct that Kobe has. If you're going to cite the Pistons game, Kobe would have had 60. They were guarding LeBron 1 on 1 and not rotating to close off the layups. That's a recipe for disaster. Even if it were Pierce there, he would have scored that many points. However, when the real pressure builds (not playing 0.500 win teams and an imploding Pistons team), Kobe rises to the occasion and LeBron passes the ball out to a teammate.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

IceMan23and3 said:


> Do you know what's funny? You baited him with a troll label and then he went off the deep end. I also agree with part of his post.
> It was most evidenced when the Cavs played the Lakers *a few seasons ago*. Kobe had that different gear that LeBron doesn't. He doesn't have that killer instinct that Kobe has. If you're going to cite the Pistons game, Kobe would have had 60. They were guarding LeBron 1 on 1 and not rotating to close off the layups. That's a recipe for disaster. Even if it were Pierce there, he would have scored that many points. However, when the real pressure builds (not playing 0.500 win teams and an imploding Pistons team), Kobe rises to the occasion and LeBron passes the ball out to a teammate.


:thinking2:

EDIT - Also, I don't really have a problem if you disagree with my characterization of him as a troll. His post contained so many factual inaccuracies I still have a hard time believing it was an honest opinion. Doesn't matter though, I'm tired of talking about it at this point.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Brandname said:


> :thinking2:


I think it was January 2006. That game where LeBron missed the game winner therefore giving Kobe the game winning shot. LeBron is immensely talented, but his clutch shooting isn't there yet. I don't even think he wants that shot.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

IceMan23and3 said:


> I think it was January 2006. That game where LeBron missed the game winner therefore giving Kobe the game winning shot. LeBron is immensely talented, but his clutch shooting isn't there yet. I don't even think he wants that shot.


No, I know precisely which game you are talking about. It's the one that the media surrounded like rabid wolves afterwards and tried to make definitive statements about Lebron and Kobe based on one game. My point was that it was weird that you're talking about past seasons when the whole point of this thread is about how Lebron is playing now. IMO, it was pretty clear that Kobe was better last year, but that's not what we're talking about.

I think Lebron's proven time and time again (to those who actually watch the games) that he's one of the top two or three guys in the entire league you want in the 4th quarter. He's been ridiculously clutch for the Cavs, and I honestly have a hard time believing people who watch at least 50% of his games would disagree.


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

These comparisons between these two guys are going to go on for another five years, with many people saying Kobe is better and many saying LeBron is better. At times, I find it pointless to compare because while the two have similar traits, they are very different and play different positions. I'm just going to enjoy every minute that I get to see these two play, and be thankful for it once each of them respectively retires from the game of basketball.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Basel57 said:


> These comparisons between these two guys are going to go on for another five years, with many people saying Kobe is better and many saying LeBron is better. At times, I find it pointless to compare because while the two have similar traits, they are very different and play different positions. I'm just going to enjoy every minute that I get to see these two play, and be thankful for it once each of them respectively retires from the game of basketball.


I think they should join forces. I suppose Kobe would be a (slight) upgrade from Hughes at SG for us.


----------



## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Brandname said:


> I think they should join forces. I suppose Kobe would be a (slight) upgrade from Hughes at SG for us.


I don't know, something about relocating to the Cavs that makes players not good. Hughes was a great defender, and now he can't guard a bee in a jar without it getting out and stinging his bottom and making all big and swollen.


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Kobe to Cleveland would not be cool in my book.

LeBron to Los Angeles works out perfectly, though.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Cavs need to get Deron Williams or Chris Paul.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

IceMan23and3 said:


> I don't know, something about relocating to the Cavs that makes players not good. Hughes was a great defender, and now he can't guard a bee in a jar without it getting out and stinging his bottom and making all big and swollen.


For as much as I rail on Hughes, I honestly think his defense actually improved when he came to the Cavs. He became so much more disciplines. Sure his steals went down of course, but that's what happens when you stay home I guess.

It's just his offense that is downright PUTRID. Dude can't shoot to save his life, is scared to slash anymore because he's so frail, and he makes horrible decisions. Seriously, the guy will have a 2 on 1 with Lebron and he'll do a pull up midrange jumper. And always miss it. 

It's no mystery why the Cavs are such a better team when Hughes is out. He has the offensive game of Eric Snow at this point (I'm not really exaggerating either), except he doesn't know his limitations and still fires up 15 shots a game.

The weird thing is, his offense really wasn't better in Washington. If you look at his percentages, they're all pretty much identical to what he did in Washington (except this year). I guess the fast-paced offense just covered up his horrible basketball decision making.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> Cavs need to get Deron Williams or Chris Paul.


Haha, there's nothing quite like dreaming. I think we should trade for Kobe, Deron Williams, and Dwight Howard.

Oh who am I kidding we don't even have the assets to acquire Smush Parker.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I would say Eric Snow is better offensively than Larry Hughes at this point in their careers. And probably there are statistics that attest to that fact. At least Snow doesn't shoot too much and drives to the basket.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Well CP is very good friends with Lebron.They could split the difference and go to Charlotte together.


----------



## TakaraJinRoh (Nov 27, 2007)

Brandname said:


> I think they should join forces. I suppose Kobe would be a (slight) upgrade from Hughes at SG for us.


I dont know if i should take this post lieterally, but saying Kobe is just a slight upgrade from Hughes is a huge understatement.


Let's be real here. Kobe is a All NBA, future Hof'er, possibly top 25 athelete in league history right now.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

TakaraJinRoh said:


> I dont know if i should take this post lieterally, but saying Kobe is just a slight upgrade from Hughes is a huge understatement.
> 
> 
> Let's be real here. Kobe is a All NBA, future Hof'er, possibly top 25 athelete in league history right now.


It is a joke. Everyone knows Hughes is a joke. Especially Cavs fans.

Nice guy. Wish him the best. But he sucks at NBA basketball now.


----------



## TakaraJinRoh (Nov 27, 2007)

futuristxen said:


> It is a joke. Everyone knows Hughes is a joke. Especially Cavs fans.
> 
> Nice guy. Wish him the best. But he sucks at NBA basketball now.


Ha Ha. I see. I need to put my sarcasm detector on.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

TakaraJinRoh said:


> I dont know if i should take this post lieterally, but saying Kobe is just a slight upgrade from Hughes is a huge understatement.
> 
> 
> Let's be real here. Kobe is a All NBA, future Hof'er, possibly top 25 athelete in league history right now.


Yeah, we don't think too highly of Larry Hughes around Cleveland. Honestly, Smush Parker would be a fairly large upgrade over Hughes.

He's not ready to relinquish his DEAD LAST (qualified) ranking in PER anytime soon. He's got an impressive -2 PER lead over the next worst.


----------



## KillWill (Jul 1, 2003)

Basel57; said:


> These comparisons between these two guys are going to go on for another five years, with many people saying Kobe is better and many saying LeBron is better. At times, I find it pointless to compare because while the two have similar traits, they are very different and play different positions. I'm just going to enjoy every minute that I get to see these two play, and be thankful for it once each of them respectively retires from the game of basketball.


you know, some of us out here are still arguing between kareem and wilt.

magic and bird

magic and jordan

i don't know where these boards would be without these two guys in the league.

nash or kidd???? bynum or odon??? duncan or kg?

just not as fun of a debate. compelling, maybe. just not as combustable.


----------



## John (Jun 9, 2002)

EHL said:


> You will be booted from here for this, and fast. Good riddance troll.



We need good troll.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

John said:


> We need good troll.


And this is exactly why you're still here John. Enjoy it while it lasts!


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Brandname said:


> My own rules? What rules?


The rules you enforced on a previous post to not include any moderator names. After which you went on to post Blazed name in a similar post of your own. I edited out Blazed name from your post in the same fashion as you moderated the post previous to it.

I shouldnt have to do this since you're a moderator and Im not. If you're going to edit someones post for having a name in there, you sure as hell better follow your own ****ing rules. 

Again, you're welcome, but I wont always be around to edit your posts.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

John said:


> We need good troll.


Good troll, but no scrub..........


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

R-Star said:


> The rules you enforced on a previous post to not include any moderator names. After which you went on to post Blazed name in a similar post of your own. I edited out Blazed name from your post in the same fashion as you moderated the post previous to it.
> 
> I shouldnt have to do this since you're a moderator and Im not. If you're going to edit someones post for having a name in there, you sure as hell better follow your own ****ing rules.
> 
> Again, you're welcome, but I wont always be around to edit your posts.


I think I'll give you an opportunity to go back and reread the post you're referring to so you can save face.


----------



## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Brandname said:


> I think I'll give you an opportunity to go back and reread the post you're referring to so you can save face.


I dont want to. Cant I just stir the pot without needing "facts" or "sence"?
Now you've gone and ruined my fun. Hope you're pleased with yourself. You've ruined my day.


----------



## Jordan23Forever (May 14, 2005)

Brandname said:


> Interestingly, even though Kobe tends to take mostly jump shots and doesn't always look for the easiest shot possible, their scoring efficiencies have been very similar over the past few seasons.
> 
> IMO it's a testament to Kobe's skill that he can keep up such a high scoring efficiency despite sometimes taking way too many difficult shots (although Lebron isn't always the best at shot selection, either. Wade is miles ahead of both of them in this category.)


All it's a testament to is the preferential treatment which allows him to average 10+ FTA while being basically a jumpshooter and taking it to the rim far less than his peers (80+% of his shots the past 3 seasons have been jumpers). Give Kobe the 6.5-8.5 FTA he actually deserves based on his style of play and see how their relative efficiencies look.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Jordan23Forever said:


> *All it's a testament to is the preferential treatment* which allows him to average 10+ FTA while being basically a jumpshooter and taking it to the rim far less than his peers (80+% of his shots the past 3 seasons have been jumpers). Give Kobe the 6.5-8.5 FTA he actually deserves based on his style of play and see how their relative efficiencies look.


Preferencial treatment, heh? When was the last time the refs gave Kobe the winning basket in a playoff game?


----------



## Jordan23Forever (May 14, 2005)

EHL said:


> LeBron 07 Finals: 22.0ppg/7.0rpg/6.8apg/1.0spg/5.8TO/35.5% FGP
> Bryant 04 Finals: 22.6ppg/2.8rpg/4.4apg/1.8spg/3.6TO/38.1% FGP
> 
> Yeah, that's "clearly worse"...if you can't interpret statistics.
> ...


No, it's pretty clearly worse, because Kobe was worse statistically and also had good players on his team to take the pressure off, unlike Lebron. Yet he still threw up that stinker of a series.

Regardless, the post was in response to another poster who stated that Kobe never played like crap in the Finals like Lebron did. Funny you didn't say anything to *that* poster, though. Yes, Kobe did play terrible -- big time.


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Jordan23Forever said:


> No, it's pretty clearly worse, because Kobe was worse statistically and also had good players on his team to take the pressure off, unlike Lebron. Yet he still threw up that stinker of a series.
> 
> Regardless, the post was in response to another poster who stated that Kobe never played like crap in the Finals like Lebron did. Funny you didn't say anything to *that* poster, though. Yes, Kobe did play terrible -- big time.


Well, didn't Kobe AT LEAST have a game winning shot in the Finals?

Both players sucked.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

J23F, the "better players" amount solely to Shaq, who Kobe has scored more efficiently without anyway, if you've been following basketball since 2004, so that's a moot point to begin with. In fact, you can better argue that Shaq took boards away from Bryant, in addition to the fact that LeBron is an SF anyway. From there all you've got is 2.4 more apg, more than easily made up for in Bryant's superior TO rate, and the fact that he scored more efficiently. Come on now, no one here if fooled by you.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

lol, I can't believe we're arguing over which one of those abysmal stat lines is better.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Jordan23Forever said:


> All it's a testament to is the preferential treatment which allows him to average 10+ FTA while being basically a jumpshooter and taking it to the rim far less than his peers (80+% of his shots the past 3 seasons have been jumpers). Give Kobe the 6.5-8.5 FTA he actually deserves based on his style of play and see how their relative efficiencies look.


lmao, I didn't see this. Ironic coming from an MJ fan.


----------



## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

Jordan23Forever said:


> No, it's pretty clearly worse, because Kobe was worse statistically and also had good players on his team to take the pressure off, unlike Lebron. Yet he still threw up that stinker of a series.
> 
> Regardless, the post was in response to another poster who stated that Kobe never played like crap in the Finals like Lebron did. Funny you didn't say anything to *that* poster, though. Yes, Kobe did play terrible -- big time.


Cmon now... that is not clearly worse if worse at all. They both were pretty horrible, where Kobe had less assists and rebounds, he also had a better shooting percentage and less turnovers. They are practicaily even.

You can't use that excuse with better teammates to take the pressure off, as the Pistons were letting Shaq do w/e he wanted, and focus on Kobe, same thing that happened with Lebron where the Spurs were focusing on him. Lebron had a better roster around him if you take out Shaq, which the Pistons werent even worried about him. So that point is mute.


----------



## TakaraJinRoh (Nov 27, 2007)

Kurt said:


> You can't use that excuse with better teammates to take the pressure off, as the Pistons were letting Shaq do w/e he wanted, and focus on Kobe, same thing that happened with Lebron where the Spurs were focusing on him. Lebron had a better roster around him if you take out Shaq, which the Pistons werent even worried about him. So that point is mute.


Im sorry but thats just really a weak excuse. That Laker squad was primed for championship. Eventhough Malone went down, Kobe was still surrounded with a definitely better supporting cast than Lebron's.


Also how can someone theoretically just take out the most dominant man in that equation? Its non sense.


----------



## Roscoe Sheed (Jun 19, 2006)

LeBron transcends his position, Kobe rarely does.


----------



## Eternal (Sep 7, 2005)

TakaraJinRoh said:


> Im sorry but thats just really a weak excuse. That Laker squad was primed for championship. Eventhough Malone went down, Kobe was still surrounded with a definitely better supporting cast than Lebron's.
> 
> 
> Also how can someone theoretically just take out the most dominant man in that equation? Its non sense.


I'm taking him out of the equation in terms of how the Pistons were defending the Lakers, and a good reason why his numbers were low in that series.


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

TakaraJinRoh said:


> Im sorry but thats just really a weak excuse. That Laker squad was primed for championship. Eventhough Malone went down, Kobe was still surrounded with a definitely better supporting cast than Lebron's.
> 
> 
> Also how can someone theoretically just take out the most dominant man in that equation? Its non sense.


Well... yes, he did, but it wasn't a GREAT team, just a very talented team.

The Lakers that year are a prime example of what the current Celtics could be susceptible of, only they weren't quite as well built as the Celtics.

They basically cruised through that season, on talent alone. I remember games where they would fall asleep in the first half, be down by 20 going into the fourth, and then turn it on and win the game, but the team was flawed. 1) Gary Payton didn't fit. At all. He wasn't "the Glove" anymore on defense, and on offense, he never really grasped the offense. Jackson said he liked the addition of Payton's ability to cut off the ball, but Payton was rarely effective unless he had the ball in his hands. Shaq was out of shape (but still Shaq), Kobe was coming off knee surgery and had mid season shoulder surgery, and Malone was the guy who tried to hold everything together.

When Malone went down, the team was shot. Kobe played a very bad series, he was driving into crowds, taking jumpers over double teams while Shaq was literally sitting down low played straight up single coverage by 6'7 Ben Wallace. That wasn't the only problem though, the team's defense was terrible. Shaq's inability to step out and guard the pick and roll was exploited again and again to the point that a guy like Chauncey Billups could manage to get finals MVP just by coming off a pick and shooting uncontested pull up jumpers. Payton was getting schooled, and Karl Malone wasn't there, the team really needed his offense, defense, toughness, rebounding, all which were missing once Slava Medvedenko started in his place.


----------



## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Kurt said:


> I'm taking him out of the equation in terms of how the Pistons were defending the Lakers, and a good reason why his numbers were low in that series.


There really shouldn't be any excuse for why Shaq's numbers were low other than the fact that Kobe didn't give him the ball. He was played single coverage the entire series but Kobe played right into Larry Brown's hands.

I personally do not think it would've made a difference ultimately, but would have at least resulted in a less embarrassing finals loss.


----------



## Benedict_Boozer (Jul 16, 2004)

Kurt said:


> You can't use that excuse with better teammates to take the pressure off, as the Pistons were letting Shaq do w/e he wanted, and focus on Kobe, same thing that happened with Lebron where the Spurs were focusing on him. Lebron had a better roster around him if you take out Shaq, which the Pistons werent even worried about him. So that point is mute.


Can you explain what you mean here? I'm not sure I follow.

How does having Shaq's presence on the court not help Kobe? If nothing else Shaq putting teams in the penalty and clogging the lane defensively is a huge advantage. 

You can't just take him out of the equation, your talking about one of the most dominant centers to ever play the game.


----------



## TakaraJinRoh (Nov 27, 2007)

Drewbs said:


> Well... yes, he did, but it wasn't a GREAT team, just a very talented team..


Yes, he did what?

I never presumed that Laker team was great, because if they were, then there is no discussion and Shaq/Kobe tandem would've had 4 titles.

My reply was simply in reaction to his post stating "Lebron had a better team if you take Shaq,out of the Lakers" Though its debateable, its still not a valid hypothetical cover up for an excuse.

Fact is Kobe had a better supporting cast than Lebron, and he falied to utilize that by using the most dominant big man of that era to make a difference (however the outcome may be) and it still doesnt change the truth that Lebron had little help in comparison to Kobe.


Drewbs said:


> The Lakers that year are a prime example of what the current Celtics could be susceptible of, only they weren't quite as well built as the Celtics...


Thats an opinion, not a universal fact. People could say that now, since the Celtics are riding a 14-2 record (?), but IMO, since that Laker team went into the Finals, they are still built better than this year's Celtics( until proven otherwise in June of 2008). Shaq was still very useful in the post, Kobe was absolutely mind boggling (despite the off court issues he's dealing with)and Malone was a very great addition that the Lakers where in dire need of. GP though not his former self is not completely useless. You have a PG who can give you 14 4 and 5 and only turning over the ball by less than 2 a game, its certainly a piece they benefited from. 




Drewbs said:


> They basically cruised through that season, on talent alone. I remember games where they would fall asleep in the first half, be down by 20 going into the fourth, and then turn it on and win the game, but the team was flawed. 1) Gary Payton didn't fit. At all. He wasn't "the Glove" anymore on defense, and on offense, he never really grasped the offense. Jackson said he liked the addition of Payton's ability to cut off the ball, but Payton was rarely effective unless he had the ball in his hands. Shaq was out of shape (but still Shaq), Kobe was coming off knee surgery and had mid season shoulder surgery, and Malone was the guy who tried to hold everything together.
> 
> 
> When Malone went down, the team was shot. Kobe played a very bad series, he was driving into crowds, taking jumpers over double teams while Shaq was literally sitting down low played straight up single coverage by 6'7 Ben Wallace. That wasn't the only problem though, the team's defense was terrible. Shaq's inability to step out and guard the pick and roll was exploited again and again to the point that a guy like Chauncey Billups could manage to get finals MVP just by coming off a pick and shooting uncontested pull up jumpers. Payton was getting schooled, and Karl Malone wasn't there, the team really needed his offense, defense, toughness, rebounding, all which were missing once Slava Medvedenko started in his place.



Its good you're telling the kid's a story of your unfortunate recollection of your trip down to memory lane, but honestly its really irrelevant and academic, if you are to stay in the premise of the subject. Im sure Cavs fans can give you a better version of their breakdown why Cleveland lost, but it doesnt change anything.


----------



## TakaraJinRoh (Nov 27, 2007)

Benedict_Boozer said:


> Can you explain what you mean here? I'm not sure I follow.
> 
> How does having Shaq's presence on the court not help Kobe? If nothing else Shaq putting teams in the penalty and clogging the lane defensively is a huge advantage.
> 
> You can't just take him out of the equation, your talking about one of the most dominant centers to ever play the game.


I need to know this as well, he tried to explain it, but to no avail, it still defies logic.


----------



## Nightmute (Apr 12, 2007)

LeBron James has been better than Kobe Bryant for the 16 games he's played this season. It's a fact, but should be taken with a grain of salt, 16 games isn't anything to merit a consensus opinion of dominance that most seem to think LeBron has over Kobe right now. Kobe has indeed had his stretch of games of mind boggling proportions. Like most said all-star break will be the best time to answer this question.


----------



## Jordan23Forever (May 14, 2005)

EHL said:


> J23F, the "better players" amount solely to Shaq, who Kobe has scored more efficiently without anyway, if you've been following basketball since 2004, so that's a moot point to begin with. In fact, you can better argue that Shaq took boards away from Bryant, in addition to the fact that LeBron is an SF anyway. From there all you've got is 2.4 more apg, more than easily made up for in Bryant's superior TO rate, and the fact that he scored more efficiently. Come on now, no one here if fooled by you.


Are you saying that Kobe wouldn't have played even worse that Detroit series WITHOUT Shaq et al.? Why are you talking about Kobe's career? I'm talking about that series. Lebron had no one to help take pressure off him in the slightest. Kobe did. That's why his performance is clearly worse.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Jordan23Forever said:


> Are you saying that Kobe wouldn't have played even worse that Detroit series WITHOUT Shaq et al.? Why are you talking about Kobe's career? I'm talking about that series. Lebron had no one to help take pressure off him in the slightest. Kobe did. That's why his performance is clearly worse.


There is 3 years of data of Bryant playing without Shaq to look at, and it shows exactly how well Kobe does without Shaq there to take off pressure; he has become a more efficient scorer. You can make all sorts of hypothetical claims about how LeBron would have done with Shaq or how Kobe would have done without Shaq in their respective Finals stinkers, but fact of the matter is that those numbers are final and no where near an obvious advantage statistically for either player.


----------



## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

EHL said:


> There is 3 years of data of Bryant playing without Shaq to look at,* and it shows exactly how well Kobe does without Shaq there to take off pressure;* he has become a more efficient scorer.



kobe w/o shaq

missed the playoff, 2 1st rd exits, 500 basketball

very well indeed

:lol:


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

aznzen said:


> kobe w/o shaq
> 
> missed the playoff, 2 1st rd exits, 500 basketball
> 
> ...


I wasn't talking about their respective winning totals, which is mostly irrelevant in a discussion about individual statistical impact.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

EHL said:


> I wasn't talking about their respective winning totals, which is mostly irrelevant in a discussion about individual statistical impact.


Shaq is important in discussing Kobe's titles. But not really in a statistical evalluation. We can pretty much compare Lebron and Kobe straight across on stats the last few years because they're on similar teams with similar burdens, that they handle diffrently. Until he went down injured Lebron was outplaying Kobe so far this year. But it probably takes more than one year to make something like that official. Let alone 15 games.


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

^ Yes, well said. LeBron is no less a player than Kobe just because he wasn't part of 3 title teams. It does mean Kobe has proven more at the top, but honestly, I have zero doubt LeBron would be able to do many of the same things Kobe did at the same age during the 3-peat. That's speculation, but not far-fetched at all.


----------



## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

EHL said:


> but honestly, I have zero doubt LeBron would be able to do many of the same things Kobe did at the same age during the 3-peat. That's speculation, but not far-fetched at all.


SERIOUSLY.

i think its the opposite. kobe never did what lebron has done at a tender age of 20 up to present. c'mon man. get it right. jeez


----------



## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

aznzen said:


> SERIOUSLY.
> 
> i think its the opposite. kobe never did what lebron has done at a tender age of 20 up to present. c'mon man. get it right. jeez


Kobe has had several seasons better than the one LeBron had at age 20. But he wasn't as good as LeBron at age 20. But neither was Jordan. LeBron just matured a lot quicker for his age.


----------



## f22egl (Jun 3, 2004)

If James had a prime Shaq, there's a good possibility that they would win more than three championships. James passing out to Robert Horry at the end of games wouldn't hurt either.


----------



## HeaVINsent15 (Jul 13, 2007)

Kobe cant get out of the first orund without Shaq. Brons been to the finals. I dont care if the East is easy. The pistons=suns.


----------



## Piolo_Pascual (Sep 13, 2006)

EHL said:


> Kobe has had several seasons better than the one LeBron had at age 20.* But he wasn't as good as LeBron at age 20.* But neither was Jordan. LeBron just matured a lot quicker for his age.


ah ok. well thanks for putting it in perspective. i agree then.


----------



## ElMarroAfamado (Nov 1, 2005)

boy its super edit when people call lebron james "king"


----------



## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

This video might be a little to extreme, although I am a Lebron fan Kobe is still better then Lebron. I don't agree with everything this guy put in it but with most I do.... enjoy.

<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fZPRQCqxG_I&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fZPRQCqxG_I&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>


Last shot? huh Kobe, Lebron, Defense, huh? ok


----------



## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

HeaVINsent15 said:


> Kobe cant get out of the first orund without Shaq. Brons been to the finals. I dont care if the East is easy. *The pistons=suns.*


:azdaja:


----------



## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

ElMarroAfamado said:


> boy its super edit when people call lebron james "king"


i dont know whats edit, calling him by his nickname king or by his middle name raymone, lol i kid i kid


----------



## Chan Ho Nam (Jan 9, 2007)

Undefeated82 said:


> This video might be a little to extreme, although I am a Lebron fan Kobe is still better then Lebron. I don't agree with everything this guy put in it but with most I do.... enjoy.
> 
> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fZPRQCqxG_I&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fZPRQCqxG_I&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
> 
> ...


the first game in there was from 2 seasons ago i think, and the charlotte lakers game was last year, and Charlotte won that game in OT

Lebron is not as skilled but he is just as fast , much much stronger and better leadership therefore he is better.. his team is a bit weaker than the Laker team and still was able to go to the Finals, he carried his team whereas Kobe did not in his playoffs series

i remember in game 7 of the Suns/Lakers series 2 years, Kobe barely took any shots compared to his usual, that is just irresponsible and being a poor teammate given his abilities, he should have scored at least 40 points in that game, b/c first it's the Suns, and they only stick Bell on him 

Lebron in the Piston series is guarded by the whole team (all eyes on him) and he was able to school them all, (btw i am a detroit fan) game 5 was insane, he capitalized with his abilities and used his drives to win the series


----------



## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Even though I still do think Kobe is better than LeBron, the guy that made that video appears to be a big LeBron hater. Even a blind person could've seen that.


----------



## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

Basel57 said:


> Even though I still do think Kobe is better than LeBron, the guy that made that video appears to be a big LeBron hater. Even a blind person could've seen that.


yup, that's why I said it was extreme, but it contained some crunch time and defensive plays from their past meetings so I posted it. But the maker of the vid is a Lebron hater.


----------



## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

This is really pretty simple.If Kobe isn't scoring significantly more or significantly more efficiently then he's not a better player.He has no significant advantage at any other aspect of the game and Lebron is clearly better at passing,ballhandling and rebounding.That doesn't leave a lot of room for arguing unless you want to invest Kobe with some intangibles...and then argue that his positive intangibles are greater than his negative ones or that they are vastly superior to Lebron's intangibles.Still no matter what you claim or argue Kobe is primarily a volume scorer and volume shooter.If he has no significant edge at that then this is not an argument any longer.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Undefeated82 said:


> This video might be a little to extreme, although I am a Lebron fan Kobe is still better then Lebron. I don't agree with everything this guy put in it but with most I do.... enjoy.
> 
> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fZPRQCqxG_I&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fZPRQCqxG_I&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
> 
> ...


Dude, that's a _*mix*._ If one were so inclined, you could make one that makes Lebron look like a god while making Kobe look like a ridiculous goat. Every play has really great moments and really bad moments.

But a lot of those were from past seasons, when Lebron was nowhere near as good at anything (especially defense) as he is now.


----------



## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

Brandname said:


> Dude, that's a _*mix*._ If one were so inclined, you could make one that makes Lebron look like a god while making Kobe look like a ridiculous goat. Every play has really great moments and really bad moments.
> 
> But a lot of those were from past seasons, when Lebron was nowhere near as good at anything (especially defense) as he is now.





Undefeated82 said:


> i dont know whats edit, calling him by his nickname king or by his middle name raymone, lol i kid i kid



Right?! so i get an infraction for saying *** but you can have *** under your username, such bull****. I like the reasoning behind your thinking.


----------



## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

guys, the 2--4 pistons team guarded everyone 1-on-1...stop making it sound like they bombarded kobe with defenders while leaving shaq open. kobe just sucked. lebron has been better than kobe since his 32/7/7 year. that's one of the reasons he has always had more MVP votes. Kobe is living on a touted reputation more than anything. he is not, and has never been, probably will never be the best palyer in the league at any given year. his defense is vastly overrated. he hasn't hit a clutch shot since, god knows when. i remember one year he hit like 2 out of 23 gamewinning/tying shots or something. yet ppl were still saying he was clutch...please. while lebron had a 60+% fg% on the gamewinner/tying...not to talk about his assists for gamewinners. lets get real ppl. lebron is better, and has been for a while now. if you put lebron on the lakers to play beside Odom...GEEZ.


----------



## Brandname (May 24, 2006)

Undefeated82 said:


> Right?! so i get an infraction for saying *** but you can have *** under your username, such bull****. I like the reasoning behind your thinking.


First, I can't tell if any of this is responding to my post about that silly mix. 

Second, if you honestly can't see the difference between the two, PM me and I will be happy to explain it.


----------



## Plastic Man (Nov 8, 2004)

duncan2k5 said:


> guys, the 2--4 pistons team guarded everyone 1-on-1...stop making it sound like they bombarded kobe with defenders while leaving shaq open. kobe just sucked. lebron has been better than kobe since his 32/7/7 year. that's one of the reasons he has always had more MVP votes. Kobe is living on a touted reputation more than anything. he is not, and has never been, probably will never be the best palyer in the league at any given year. his defense is vastly overrated. he hasn't hit a clutch shot since, god knows when. i remember one year he hit like 2 out of 23 gamewinning/tying shots or something. yet ppl were still saying he was clutch...please. while lebron had a 60+% fg% on the gamewinner/tying...not to talk about his assists for gamewinners. lets get real ppl. lebron is better, and has been for a while now. if you put lebron on the lakers to play beside Odom...GEEZ.


Yeah, Odom's been tearing it lately and this year he's been awsome with a capital A!!!!11 I bet if you put a great player like Lamar with LeBron they would win some titles, unlike Kobe who can't do ****, so he just jacks up shots and hogs the ball all the time...

Go watch some Lakers games instead of posting braindead comments like this.

Thank you.


----------



## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

duncan2k5 said:


> guys, the 2--4 pistons team guarded everyone 1-on-1...stop making it sound like they bombarded kobe with defenders while leaving shaq open. kobe just sucked. lebron has been better than kobe since his 32/7/7 year. that's one of the reasons he has always had more MVP votes. Kobe is living on a touted reputation more than anything. he is not, and has never been, probably will never be the best palyer in the league at any given year. his defense is vastly overrated. he hasn't hit a clutch shot since, god knows when. i remember one year he hit like 2 out of 23 gamewinning/tying shots or something. yet ppl were still saying he was clutch...please. while lebron had a 60+% fg% on the gamewinner/tying...not to talk about his assists for gamewinners. lets get real ppl. lebron is better, and has been for a while now. if you put lebron on the lakers to play beside Odom...GEEZ.


Yup you are right, Kobe has never been the best player in the league. That is ofcourse in your biased eyes. But let's have a look at what others have though in previous seasons.............


<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Hl_HbwnjHLI&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Hl_HbwnjHLI&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="375" height="355"></embed></object>

<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/AQY7NpbiFwk&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/AQY7NpbiFwk&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="375" height="355"></embed></object>

<object width="375" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-_hJuAyQkpI&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-_hJuAyQkpI&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

<object width="375" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4k6oTj8WIV4&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4k6oTj8WIV4&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

<object width="375" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/liIYL7YcePI&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/liIYL7YcePI&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

<object width="375" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4wRZmwfy3ms&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4wRZmwfy3ms&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

But I mean you are right, what do these guys know about basketball right?


----------



## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

duncan2k5 said:


> guys, the 2--4 pistons team guarded everyone 1-on-1...stop making it sound like they bombarded kobe with defenders while leaving shaq open. kobe just sucked. lebron has been better than kobe since his 32/7/7 year. that's one of the reasons he has always had more MVP votes. Kobe is living on a touted reputation more than anything. he is not, and has never been, probably will never be the best palyer in the league at any given year. his defense is vastly overrated. *He hasn't hit a clutch shot since the last Lakers vs. Nuggets game couple of days ago*. i remember one year he hit like 2 out of 23 gamewinning/tying shots or something. yet ppl were still saying he was clutch...please. while lebron had a 60+% fg% on the gamewinner/tying...not to talk about his assists for gamewinners. lets get real ppl. lebron is better, and has been for a while now. if you put lebron on the lakers to play beside Odom...GEEZ.



I suggest you watch some Laker games before you generalize Kobe's game. But then again why would you when he's your number 1 hated player in the NBA.

And about the Pistons playing everyone 1 on 1, it is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Go watch some videos on youtube of that finals. The Piston team was built a defensive team that took pride in their team defense, not in their 1 on 1 defense. They played Shaq 1 on 1 more then they did Kobe, Kobe saw more of a collapsing defense, where the Piston would sag of their man then collapse on Kobe once he got free. the Piston in fact did bombared both Kobe and Shaq with defense.The inability for anyone asisde from Shaq and Kobe to contribute to the offense and the Lakers poor defense caused them that series. For sakes B.Wallace averaged 10.8p 13.6reb that series. So putting blame on Kobe for the Lakers losing that finals holds no truth. It was a loss that the Lakers as a team created, not Kobe alone.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

What do youtube videos from the past year have to do with anything when people are saying this year Lebron has been playing a lot better than Kobe?


----------



## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

futuristxen said:


> What do youtube videos from the past year have to do with anything when people are saying this year Lebron has been playing a lot better than Kobe?



Re-read the quote.


----------



## TakaraJinRoh (Nov 27, 2007)

I love Amare's facial reaction when he said "Who better than Kobe", hahaha.


----------



## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

duncan2k5 said:


> guys, the 2--4 pistons team guarded everyone 1-on-1...stop making it sound like they bombarded kobe with defenders while leaving shaq open. kobe just sucked. lebron has been better than kobe since his 32/7/7 year. that's one of the reasons he has always had more MVP votes. Kobe is living on a touted reputation more than anything. *he is not, and has never been, probably will never be the best palyer in the league at any given year.* his defense is vastly overrated. he hasn't hit a clutch shot since, god knows when. i remember one year he hit like 2 out of 23 gamewinning/tying shots or something. yet ppl were still saying he was clutch...please. while lebron had a 60+% fg% on the gamewinner/tying...not to talk about his assists for gamewinners. lets get real ppl. lebron is better, and has been for a while now. if you put lebron on the lakers to play beside Odom...GEEZ.





futuristxen said:


> What do youtube videos from the past year have to do with anything when people are saying this year Lebron has been playing a lot better than Kobe?


=)


----------



## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

and to add to that, Malone and Payton contributed just about nothing to that finals. Shaq 26.6p 10.8reb, Kobe 22.6p 4.4a, and the next biggest contributer Malone Payton? take a guess? D.Fisher 6.4p 3.0reb 1.8a.


----------



## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Undefeated82 said:


> =)


Oh. I don't really read his posts about Kobe, you probably shouldn't either.


----------



## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

futuristxen said:


> Oh. I don't really read his posts about Kobe, you probably shouldn't either.


Yeah, I just learned that. I doubt I'll read or reply any of his Kobe posts ever again since I know they are biased and backed up by brain farts.


----------



## duncan2k5 (Feb 27, 2005)

Undefeated82 said:


> Yeah, I just learned that. I doubt I'll read or reply any of his Kobe posts ever again since I know they are biased and backed up by *brain farts*.


Says the guy with the Kwame Brown avatar


----------

