# Is Webber killing the kings this year?



## outlook1 (Mar 17, 2004)

He sent Brad Miller to the bench and kings have struggled mightilly losing to good team and barelly beating bad teams. Just look at +- ratings http://www.82games.com/0304SAC.HTM and you see that webber performance is horrible. Their defense is worse and guys like Kwame brown and Lamar Odom had carreer games against them. It seems obvious they would Miller and Divac back in and webber on the bench.


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## Ballyhoo (May 30, 2003)

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85912&forumid=2


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

I don't kno what happend to webber.. i watched the spurs game a couple of weeks ago and he was doing nothing. they went on that huge run because of brad miller.. webber was just screwing up the defense and causing turnovers..


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## g_prince_4_lyfe (Sep 10, 2003)

Well, I said this at the beginning of the season. The ONLY thing that will destroy the Kings is Chris Webber. NOT so much because of his skill, it's the chemistry factor. Sure, he can get the points, rebounds, and assists, but he's taking away shots from the other players and he's taking away minutes from Brad Miller. The Kings would be better off without Webber! And this is the WORST time for this to happen because they're going to end up carrying the struggling into the playoffs. That's not the type of momentum they want to bring, no matter who they face in the first round because EVERYBODY"S beating the Kings these days! The worst loss for this team was obviously the blowout against the Lakers. Sure, the Lakers were looking for revenge after the Kings won the first two meetings, but the loss really was a killer to this team.

If the Kings want to get back on track, they have to do something about Webber! Reduce his minutes or something! If the chemistry was working without Webber, then they may have to sit him out or have him come off the bench!


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

It takes time to integrate people... I dont know if any of you noticed, but when MJ returned to the Bulls after his first retirement (the best player in history) the Bulls struggled when he first came back, they played awful, they couldnt find a rythm or anything. Then what happened? Can we say 3peat? Now im not saying Webber is ANYTHING compared to MJ but he is the best player and he is the focus of the O, so it will all be good in due time


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> It takes time to integrate people... I dont know if any of you noticed, but when MJ returned to the Bulls after his first retirement (the best player in history) the Bulls struggled when he first came back, they played awful, they couldnt find a rythm or anything. Then what happened? Can we say 3peat? Now im not saying Webber is ANYTHING compared to MJ but he is the best player and he is the focus of the O, so it will all be good in due time


You still think he's the best player on that team? I'm not so sure. He's big, talented, and well-rounded but he's lost alot of the quickness and explosiveness that made him an elite player. He can't dominate in the post anymore. He can barely defend the post these days. He can't take his man off the dribble. He has trouble getting up and down the court. I might be wrong but I think it's wishful thinking to expect him to return to the player that he was 2-3 years ago. MJ didn't have any major injuries when he returned to the court in 1994. He didn't lose much of his ability at all. CWebb looks like a completely different player right now.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> It takes time to integrate people... I dont know if any of you noticed, but when MJ returned to the Bulls after his first retirement (the best player in history) the Bulls struggled when he first came back, they played awful, they couldnt find a rythm or anything. Then what happened? Can we say 3peat? Now im not saying Webber is ANYTHING compared to MJ but he is the best player and he is the focus of the O, so it will all be good in due time


Two totally different situations, not in the least comparable.


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## beb0p (Jul 15, 2002)

We have to give Webber more time to get back in NBA shape, if only because he is Chris Webber. It's not a slowness of body but a slowness of mind that is hurting him. If he is more mentally ready, he can make up for his lack of explosiveness. 

Don't forget, he was a big factor in the victories over Pacers and Spurs. He is not playing poorly as much as he is playing inconsistently. If he becomes consistent, the Kings will be rolling again.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>beb0p</b>!
> We have to give Webber more time to get back in NBA shape, if only because he is Chris Webber. It's not a slowness of body but a slowness of mind that is hurting him. If he is more mentally ready, he can make up for his lack of explosiveness.
> 
> Don't forget, he was a big factor in the victories over Pacers and Spurs. He is not playing poorly as much as he is playing inconsistently. If he becomes consistent, the Kings will be rolling again.


I'd say it's definitely more physical than mental at this point. He's been practicing for months and been playing for 3 weeks now. He's no where close to the Webber of, say, 2002, when the Kings were FTs away from the Finals.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> 
> 
> You still think he's the best player on that team? I'm not so sure. He's big, talented, and well-rounded but he's lost alot of the quickness and explosiveness that made him an elite player. He can't dominate in the post anymore. He can barely defend the post these days. He can't take his man off the dribble. He has trouble getting up and down the court. I might be wrong but I think it's wishful thinking to expect him to return to the player that he was 2-3 years ago. MJ didn't have any major injuries when he returned to the court in 1994. He didn't lose much of his ability at all. CWebb looks like a completely different player right now.


Thats the thing tho, they dont need him to be what he was 2 3 years ago, just solid... Thats all... the team is good enough to where they dont need an MVP candidate... But hes still very good, and once they fit him in they will be just as good if not better than ever


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> 
> Two totally different situations, not in the least comparable.


Because...


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## outlook1 (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> Because...


because bulls were mediocre without Jordan when he joined them back 34-31 and he propelled them back to elite http://www.nba.com/jordan/mj9495.html . Jordan was not injured or with baggage. Putting webber and Jordan in the same sentence is almost herecy. Jordan was the most competitive and capable player so far while webber is a famous choker and a lazy guy after he got that fat contract from sacramento.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

The point is, because nobody can read between the lines... A player that was good returns to a team and makes the team worse for a stretch then gets it together... Thats my freaking point jesus...


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## outlook1 (Mar 17, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> The point is, because nobody can read between the lines... A player that was good returns to a team and makes the team worse for a stretch then gets it together... Thats my freaking point jesus...



when did Jordan make bulls worse??? 
Stop making up crap and deal with reality


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

Id rather take Steve Kerrs word for it (who spoke of it during the Pisons Spurs game) saying that when he came back they struggled mightily for a while... So ya, id rather take the word from Kerr than from you...


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## KTLuvsMikeBibby (Jul 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats the thing tho, they dont need him to be what he was 2 3 years ago, just solid... Thats all... the team is good enough to where they dont need an MVP candidate... But hes still very good, and once they fit him in they will be just as good if not better than ever


That's what I've been saying. He doesn't need to be the best player on the team..and he still thinks he has to be and that he is. Right now he is I would honestly say the 8th best player on the team and he plays like he's the best. This is what happens with Bobby Jackson sometimes too, but I'm not gonna get into that. All he has to do is fit in, get rebounds, dish out assists, and make an occasional free-throw. I don't even think the Kings really need him to be an interior offensive threat. Vlade can do that and at the moment is doing it much better than Webber. And the Kings do need and have a MVP candidate, Peja.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KTLuvsMikeBibby</b>!
> 
> That's what I've been saying. He doesn't need to be the best player on the team..and he still thinks he has to be and that he is. Right now he is I would honestly say the 8th best player on the team and he plays like he's the best. This is what happens with Bobby Jackson sometimes too, but I'm not gonna get into that. All he has to do is fit in, get rebounds, dish out assists, and make an occasional free-throw. I don't even think the Kings really need him to be an interior offensive threat. Vlade can do that and at the moment is doing it much better than Webber. And the Kings do need and have a MVP candidate, Peja.


Saying he's the 8th best player on the team is a stretch but he's clearly not as valuable as Peja, Bibby, or even Miller right now. I agree that CWebb still believes that he's the franchise player in Sacramento. After all, that's what he's been for the past several years. When he came to Sac in 98', he was a top 10 player in the league and clearly the Kings' best players. However, his production has declined over time and the foot injuries seem to have rapidly expedited the process. Peja and Bibby have really come into their own in recent years and the acquisition of Brad Miller was huge for the Kings. CWebb needs to come to terms with his role on this team. The sooner he realizes where he fits in the better off the Kings will be.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> It takes time to integrate people... I dont know if any of you noticed, but when MJ returned to the Bulls after his first retirement (the best player in history) the Bulls struggled when he first came back, they played awful, they couldnt find a rythm or anything. Then what happened? Can we say 3peat? Now im not saying Webber is ANYTHING compared to MJ but he is the best player and he is the focus of the O, so it will all be good in due time


I just don't remember his first comeback as you state it. I remember the bulls were just under .500 and were NOT headed to the playoffs, but with Mike back, they went on a WINNING terror and made it to the playoffs & to the 2nd round against Shaq & his Orlando teammates.


As for CWebb - I have always said that he doesn't have a high BBall IQ. He should be coming off of the bench - but who knows if the Kings coach is smart enough to know that?


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

Brad Miller, Vlade(better but..), Peja, Christie are all great playing within the flow and the system. But in about second round of the playoffs, great teams takes as much away from what other teams run. Therefore, the "within flow" guys will sux and couldnt be effective in the second round of the playoffs.

I still think Webber was lucky that they made it to the last round in the West couple of years ago without having to play against a much better defensive player in Tim Duncan for the PF postion, Yiou know Horry and Walker were sux big time inside defensively, but Webber still could only do hook shot after hook shot and ocassionaly spinning to the baskets looking for ugly fouls.... 


1) Kings have a good point guard where he could drives in the RIGHT situation in the flow and can shoot as an off guard. (Bibby)

2) Kings have great off the ball shooters in Peja where he could not have to worry about so much since he is not the only offense for the Kings.

3) Kings have an decent centre in Divac where many teams would love to have espeically for the eastern teams. 

Kings have many good scoring options but they still need Chris Webber who can find the open man, able to take the ball to the baskets in right situations, post hook shots against second unit players or weak defemders for the Kings to have a chance to get back to the WCF!


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## epic (Mar 16, 2004)

they should bring him off the bench.


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## KTLuvsMikeBibby (Jul 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> 
> 
> Saying he's the 8th best player on the team is a stretch but he's clearly not as valuable as Peja, Bibby, or even Miller right now. I agree that CWebb still believes that he's the franchise player in Sacramento. After all, that's what he's been for the past several years. When he came to Sac in 98', he was a top 10 player in the league and clearly the Kings' best players. However, his production has declined over time and the foot injuries seem to have rapidly expedited the process. Peja and Bibby have really come into their own in recent years and the acquisition of Brad Miller was huge for the Kings. CWebb needs to come to terms with his role on this team. The sooner he realizes where he fits in the better off the Kings will be.


Well I think at the moment he is. Right now he has one of the lowest fg%, A/TO ratio, and defense in general on the team. I think by the time he gets to where he is more comfortable he will be on par with Miller, but not Peja or Bibby. He does need to accept his new role though, which I doubt will happen unfortunately.


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## therealdeal (Dec 24, 2003)

> Thats the thing tho, they dont need him to be what he was 2 3 years ago, just solid... Thats all... the team is good enough to where they dont need an MVP candidate... But hes still very good, and once they fit him in they will be just as good if not better than ever


Yes, but in that case he needs to play as a solid player only and limit his touches, not get the ball as much as an MVP player would. Peja and Bibby have to control most of the game.

Problem is he and Adelman seem to think he's the MVP and that's why everything is going to hell.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

But you see Webber is stilling capable of putting up huge numbers... If he gets some stamina training (aka the regular season) he can play better in the Playoffs, hes had games like 24 16 8 against the Pacers (Jermaine O'Neal guarding him) 16 8 8
26 12 4 23 6 5 22 9 3 24 6 10

Its not like the guy has been a total gimp and hasnt showed he can still play...


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## Peja Vu (Jun 9, 2002)

> Adelman's real challenge isn't keeping Webber on the floor, but keeping him there in a way that makes sense. The coach is steadfast in maintaining that Webber needs to be on the court and that Webber's presence isn't the reason the Kings have been so lackluster in recent games, and on that count he has Bibby to back him up.
> 
> "I don't think that was the problem," Bibby said. "We wanted Chris to come back and get his feet wet right away, and make sure that he felt comfortable out there - to get him the ball as much as possible, and just go off that.
> 
> ...


http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/8672838p-9600678c.html


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Mike Bibby</b>!
> 
> Chris is the best player on the team. It wasn't him. Everybody might think so because he came back and now we're struggling, but you go through times like that. Ours just happened to come right now.


Struggling to fit players into the system is just an excuse that teams use when they get worse after a trade or the return of an injured player return. If a player is going to improve a team, it usually works out right away. At most it takes 2-3 games to get on the same page. If you are still losing by then, you have no team chemistry, and it probably won't get any better.

The Mavs lost a few games at the beginning of the year to teams like Toronto and Washington, and their fans used this excuse. Now there's 10 games left in the season and Dallas still sucks. Walker and Jamison didn't take time to get on the same page, they just made Dallas suck, period (especially Walker).

On the other hand, the NBA's best teams have added new players or returning players with ease.

When Ron Artest came back from his thumb injury, the Pacers instantly won five games in a row. They are 10-3 since his return.

It took the Lakers no time to integrate Gary Payton and Karl Malone at the beginning of the year. They started out 18-3. Now that they are back, the Lakers are on a seven-game winning streak.

The Pistons struggled for a game or two when they got Rasheed, but then they promptly blew out eight teams in a row.

Minnesota and Sacramento have had their guys back for over ten games now, and they are still playing much worse than they were before. Time to face reality, their chemistry is not going to improve, and they will get bounced in the second round if not the first round.


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## beb0p (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> 
> 
> I'd say it's definitely more physical than mental at this point. He's been practicing for months and been playing for 3 weeks now. He's no where close to the Webber of, say, 2002, when the Kings were FTs away from the Finals.



It's not as simple as that. Webber's reaction was slow, he didn't adjust to how the defense was playing him, at times he didn't know where his shots are within the offense, and occasionally he didn't know where his teammates are. Anyone who has been out substantially knows that three weeks is barely enough for a guy who missed almost a year to get used to the pacing in pickup games, let alone the NBA games. Even Webber said part of the game plan is for him to use these games to whip himself into NBA shape.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ArtestFan</b>!
> 
> 
> Struggling to fit players into the system is just an excuse that teams use when they get worse after a trade or the return of an injured player return. If a player is going to improve a team, it usually works out right away. At most it takes 2-3 games to get on the same page. If you are still losing by then, you have no team chemistry, and it probably won't get any better.
> ...


Like i said there was a guy nicknamed MJ...


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

Does anybody really believe the Kings chance's of winning a title are weaker with Webb back?.. And let's be real for a sec, CWebb hasn't played quality D since he left the Bay Area!


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## therealdeal (Dec 24, 2003)

> Does anybody really believe the Kings chance's of winning a title are weaker with Webb back?..[/


Not weaker, completely nonexistant.


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> Like i said there was a guy nicknamed MJ...


Well, I disagree. The 1995 Bulls were not good enough to win a title even if Jordan had been in perfect shape, because they completely lacked interior defense after Horace Grant bolted for the Magic (who not coincidentally, were the team that kicked the Bulls all over the court in the playoffs). They would have won no more championships if they hadn't traded for Dennis Rodman. So I don't think this is an example of a team taking awhile to re-discover its chemistry. If you want to get into an argument with me about the Bulls, please start your own thread and send me a PM telling me where to post, because I don't want to cause this thread to get too off topic.

The point is that if you overhaul a team and the chemistry isn't there right away, it won't ever be until you overhaul it again. Which the Bulls did when they traded for Dennis Rodman, and which the Kings and Timberwolves need to do by sending Webber, Olowokandi, and Wally back to the bench where they belong.


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