# Trading Shaq wasn't that bad afterall?



## HAWK23 (Jul 1, 2002)

Losing Shaq is bad... yes.... but look at what the Lakers got for ONE player...

Odom
Butler
Grant
Divac
Kobe
possibly Malone
#1 pick


If the Lakers don't trade Shaq Kobe is a clipper plain and simple... they got the 3 heat players and their #1 pick for Shaq... Malone doesn't possibly sign on with the Lakers if Kobe is not a Laker, they don't have the money to sign Divac with out trading Shaq, and Divac was deciding between the Clippers and Lakers, if the Lakers don't deal Shaq, Kobe then goes to the Clippers and Divac probably signs with the Clippers then. That's 6 starters and a #1 pick for one (dominant, yes) but aging player.... 

Let's just say the Lakers could have done worse...

C-Divac/Grant
PF-Malone/Grant
SF-Odom/Butler
SG-Kobe/Rush
PG-Payton/?

Extended Bench:
SG/SF-George
SF/PF-Walton
PF/C-Cook
G-Vujacic


Yes... I know I butchered Vlade's name throughout my post...


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

It worked out a lot better then expected I agree.

Divac was a surprise, and Malone considering coming back for next to nothing is an even bigger surprise.

I like the fact that the team has a lot more depth and everyone knows their role on the team.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HAWK23</b>!
> Let's just say the Lakers could have done worse...
> 
> C-Divac/Grant
> ...


Yeah, if it happens the Lakers are pretty deep. If Malone comes the Lakers gotta shop Cook for anything...no sense letting him rot behind Malone/Grant/Odom because Odom would get any leftover PF minutes with Butler behind him. I'd also hate to see Walton go, but if he's no better by the trade deadline I say they should use him to get a pick since he's gonna get overpaid next year anyway. The Lakers still could use another PF/C and PG and they should be open to trading Cook/Walton/George/Fox and maybe even Butler or Rush (if nobody wants George or Walton) to get deeper at the PF and PG positions.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

I dont think Malone will come back.....

but the roster on paper is nice, no true center-even with Vlade, who can't play a full game anymore--

but the biggest question---

How will Kobe prove himself without Shaq? If he can't step it up without the big fella, it's gonna be a real tough season.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Caron_Butler</b>!
> I dont think Malone will come back.....
> 
> but the roster on paper is nice, no true center-even with Vlade, who can't play a full game anymore--
> ...


I don't have any questions anout Kobe. He's the one person I'm sure about. 

He'll drop close to 30ppg or better and play well. What concerns me is defensively can we protect the basket. Shaq I think has been underrated defensively. Shaq covered alot of mistakes on that end. He made teams have to resort strictly to a perimeter game with the pick and roll. 

I'm worried that teams will attack the paint mercilessly. 

Kobe though nah, Shaq made his job easier when he was here but he didn't make Kobe a great player. Kobe did that.


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## Wilt_The_Stilt (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> I don't have any questions anout Kobe. He's the one person I'm sure about.
> 
> He'll drop close to 30ppg or better and play well. What concerns me is defensively can we protect the basket. Shaq I think has been underrated defensively. Shaq covered alot of mistakes on that end. He made teams have to resort strictly to a perimeter game with the pick and roll.
> ...


I agree.

Kobe has been the least of my worries.

Divac can never match what Shaq brought on defense. Whenever Shaq came out of the game teams would take it straight to the hoop because we had no one to block shots. Vlade might take a couple charges, but he won't change shots or be nearly effective as Shaq.

Your Chandler idea is looking real nice right now.


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## erniejohnson (Oct 11, 2003)

Keon Clark is out there, if we have any money for him he'd be a pretty nice acquisition. The guy's super athletic and can block shots.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Caron_Butler</b>!
> but the roster on paper is nice, no true center-even with Vlade, who can't play a full game anymore--
> 
> but the biggest question---
> ...


1. Since when was Vlade not a true center?????

2. With more movement with Shaq out of the middle, Kobe will find even more open lanes...sure there's no Shaq to draw double teams anymore, but with a more active offense, Kobe should be able to get his just like before.


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## Pejavlade (Jul 10, 2004)

if u get malone i dont think he will play for the same salary as lsat year so u might lose vlade


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pejavlade</b>!
> if u get malone i dont think he will play for the same salary as lsat year so u might lose vlade


Malone has already said that if he does come back...it'll be for the same amount of money as he played for last season.


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## erniejohnson (Oct 11, 2003)

If Malone comes back we'll have the best passing front court in the game. :yes:


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## hotel312 (Jul 13, 2004)

*Divac*

It does help that Vlade will be at Center because he can hit an open shot and pass the ball. I'm worried about Kobe because I think he can lead the NBA in scoring but he won't shoot a good % like Jordan did so I still think the best we can hope for is 5th in the West. And the point about the defense is righto on, teams will still go right to the basket just as they did as soon as Shaq would go tto the bench. Lets hope Caron can improve on his shooting as well(38% last year). It should get better because I think that we will run.........


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Divac*



> Originally posted by <b>hotel312</b>!
> It does help that Vlade will be at Center because he can hit an open shot and pass the ball. I'm worried about Kobe because I think he can lead the NBA in scoring but he won't shoot a good % like Jordan did so I still think the best we can hope for is 5th in the West. And the point about the defense is righto on, teams will still go right to the basket just as they did as soon as Shaq would go tto the bench. Lets hope Caron can improve on his shooting as well(38% last year). It should get better because I think that we will run.........


Why are you worrying about the Lakers best player. MJ played in a different era when he had the Hornacke's of the world guarding him Kobe has the Bowens. Kobe will shoot in the 46 % range. thats good enough. 

Lakers will be fine. 

Caron was injured most of last season his game picked up when he got healthy.


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## Outkast (Jul 20, 2004)

yeah if you dont trade Shaq Kobe probably gone VIA FA and you get nothing but the Lakers keep Kobe and receive good players for Shaq


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## hotel312 (Jul 13, 2004)

*Jazzy*

Jazzy, if you're not worried about Kobe you're living in a dream world. If you think he took too many bad shots this year(you probably don't with your fantasy world), he could be a monster next year. I think he'll lead the league in scoring, but we will be in trouble. Quit making excuses about Flowbee's bad shooting, did everyone else shoot 38% in the Finals!!!!!?????? Hell Devin George shot better in the playoffs and Finals, obviously he isn't in the same universe as Kobe but hit a damn shot once in awhile. I'm worried because he has showed that winning isn't the most important thing to him. And he couldn't sniff Jordan, hell Jordan's rookie numbers overall are better than anything Kobe has done. Hell, Jordan shot a better % his last year with the Wizards and avg more reb than Kobe did this year. WORK ON YOUR SHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jordan was an MVP, he didn't have the benefit with playing with one. If he had played with Kareem he probably would have shot 60%!! We better run all the time to keep those #'s up. You are full of excuses and either don't know what you're talking about or you're in denial.


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## hotel312 (Jul 13, 2004)

*Trade*

The problem is that one player is the most dominant guy in the league!! When the Lakers are looking at the 5th seed at best they will see how good a trade it was.....


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Jazzy*



> Originally posted by <b>hotel312</b>!
> Jazzy, if you're not worried about Kobe you're living in a dream world. If you think he took too many bad shots this year(you probably don't with your fantasy world), he could be a monster next year. I think he'll lead the league in scoring, but we will be in trouble. Quit making excuses about Flowbee's bad shooting, did everyone else shoot 38% in the Finals!!!!!?????? Hell Devin George shot better in the playoffs and Finals, obviously he isn't in the same universe as Kobe but hit a damn shot once in awhile. I'm worried because he has showed that winning isn't the most important thing to him. And he couldn't sniff Jordan, hell Jordan's rookie numbers overall are better than anything Kobe has done. Hell, Jordan shot a better % his last year with the Wizards and avg more reb than Kobe did this year. WORK ON YOUR SHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jordan was an MVP, he didn't have the benefit with playing with one. If he had played with Kareem he probably would have shot 60%!! We better run all the time to keep those #'s up. You are full of excuses and either don't know what you're talking about or you're in denial.


And you're living in a dream worrd. 

Kobe was 1st team all nba and 1st team all defense and didn't WORK out at all last summer. 

1st off get off this Kobe isn't MJ kick. MJ played in an era where, Danny Ainge 6'2, Hornacek 6'5 and slow, Dumars 6'3, John Starks 6'3 and Craig Ehlo 6'7 and slow were his chief defenders Kobe has 6'5 Hassell great quickness and athleticism, Bruce Bowen 6'7 and quick great athlete, Tayshaun Prince 6'9 great athlete now you tell me. 

Mj scored on a bunch of smaller less athletic players Kobe plays against great athletes every game just about. 

MJ was beating people off the dribble all game and getting to the rim teams scout to well and players are too athletic for that now.

MJ's numbers had he played with Shaq would have surely dipped he wouldn't have been MVP and he wouldn't have been a scoring champ all those years. 

Kobe played with a 27ppg scorer and still dropped 30 ppg in a season and 28.5 in a season. Compare those numbers Kobe got MJ at least a couple of seasons. 

Kobe is a career 46 % shooter not bad considering he plays in a better defensive era. so get off that stuff. 

Kobe isn't worried about winning then WHY DOES HE HAVE 3 RINGS . That doesn't make sense. And he's made most of the big plays in order to get those rings . They can't go to Shaq in the 4th quarters because of his lack of free throw shooting. 

Again not worried about Kobe more worried about others ,Kobe's our best player. 

You must e young so I'll let it slide so syop masquerading as a Lakers fan and go root for the Heat. 

Stop listening to Steven A he doesn't know what he's talking about. 

Kobe is 25 years old he has 15 more years to play ball , and already has 3 rings. 

Kobe has a long time to prove his worthiness of the MJ comparisons. 

Can't get hung up on shooting % MJ played in a different Era. Where there were alot less quality athletes to play stifiling defense. 

You can't ever say Kobe's doesn't care about winning when the GM"S ( The people paid to know) voted Kobe last season the NBA's most clutch player. 

Get off that kick man. 

Lakers will be a contenders next season not bad after getting rid of the Diesel.

Lakers have a bright future. 

Only thing got me worried about Kobe is his court case. not his playing he handles that really well. 

They lost in the playoffs because hey had nothing else outside of he and Shaq same with losing last season they weren't liely to win 4 titles in a row no one has done that since the 60's for a reason. 

case closed young man.


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## hotel312 (Jul 13, 2004)

*jazzy1*

I hate Stephen A and as far as I'm concerned he just jumped on my band wagon, becuase the same thing happened last year in the playoffs and it was not recognized by the experts. Do you think that it is significant that when Kobe took 7-8 more shots than Shaq per game the last 2 years in the playoffs the Lakers lost. And Jordan shot better his last year with the Wizards than Kobe did last year(and avg more reb), was that a different era? The year Kobe avg 30 he also led the league in shot attempts genius!!! Jordan was universally known as the best player in the league by players, media, fans, etc(I don't think even you would dispute that). Kobe has never been universally known as the best player on his own team. And Joe Dumars was a better defender than Kobe will ever be, so was Payton in his day. Just because Kobe can run and jump doesn't make him a great defender, I've seen him get torched too often but obviously you see him thru rose colored glasses. Kobe can be 1st team every year as far as I'm concerned, but I want you to tell me a "superstar" that has had a worse NBA Finals than your boy did this year. And Jordan was a defensive player of the year as well, also led the league in steals several times. And you MUST be intelligent enough to know that Kobe didn't have a great year last year right????? So all of the defenders are more athletic now and that hurts Kobe right??? I guess that all of the offensive players must be better to, is that your logic? You are so full of excuses its hilarious, if we were in court and needed to make a case you would be finished. Jordan was the MVP, he didn't have the luxury of playing with one, you'll see this upcoming year. I'm sure you already have your next scapegoat picket out, who is it gonna be Odom? It can't possibly be Kobe because he is great right. Talent doesn't mean anything if you don't play team ball and can't hit a shot(see this years Finals)!! You are so easy because you have no ammunition...................


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## erniejohnson (Oct 11, 2003)

> And you MUST be intelligent enough to know that Kobe didn't have a great year last year right?????


If you call averaging 24 points a game while sharing the court with three future hall of famers and facing the possibilty of going to jail a bad year then you must be the most demanding person in the universe. Apparently you see the facts as you choose to see them not as they really are. Kobe is a great player even if your hatred for him keeps you from ever admitting it.


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## U reach. I teach (May 24, 2003)

*Re: jazzy1*



> Originally posted by <b>hotel312</b>!
> I hate Stephen A and as far as I'm concerned he just jumped on my band wagon, becuase the same thing happened last year in the playoffs and it was not recognized by the experts. Do you think that it is significant that when Kobe took 7-8 more shots than Shaq per game the last 2 years in the playoffs the Lakers lost. And Jordan shot better his last year with the Wizards than Kobe did last year(and avg more reb), was that a different era? The year Kobe avg 30 he also led the league in shot attempts genius!!! Jordan was universally known as the best player in the league by players, media, fans, etc(I don't think even you would dispute that). Kobe has never been universally known as the best player on his own team. And Joe Dumars was a better defender than Kobe will ever be, so was Payton in his day. Just because Kobe can run and jump doesn't make him a great defender, I've seen him get torched too often but obviously you see him thru rose colored glasses. Kobe can be 1st team every year as far as I'm concerned, but I want you to tell me a "superstar" that has had a worse NBA Finals than your boy did this year. And Jordan was a defensive player of the year as well, also led the league in steals several times. And you MUST be intelligent enough to know that Kobe didn't have a great year last year right????? So all of the defenders are more athletic now and that hurts Kobe right??? I guess that all of the offensive players must be better to, is that your logic? You are so full of excuses its hilarious, if we were in court and needed to make a case you would be finished. Jordan was the MVP, he didn't have the luxury of playing with one, you'll see this upcoming year. I'm sure you already have your next scapegoat picket out, who is it gonna be Odom? It can't possibly be Kobe because he is great right. Talent doesn't mean anything if you don't play team ball and can't hit a shot(see this years Finals)!! You are so easy because you have no ammunition...................


I'm trying to figure out why you're trying to convince us he is not Jordan. WE KNOW he's not Jordan. Nobody is saying that he is better than Jordan. But You are telling us that he isn't a good player because he isn't as good as Jordan??? Kinda picky

And all your "you'll see this year" and "just watch" doesn't carry well here. You've lost all credibility. Go root for the Heat.


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## Hov (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: Re: jazzy1*



> Originally posted by <b>U reach, I teach</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm trying to figure out why you're trying to convince us he is not Jordan. WE KNOW he's not Jordan. Nobody is saying that he is better than Jordan. But You are telling us that he isn't a good player because he isn't as good as Jordan??? Kinda picky
> ...


Exactly. Go root for the Heat.


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## IV (Jul 16, 2002)

> And you MUST be intelligent enough to know that Kobe didn't have a great year last year right?????


I don't think any intelligent person would criticize Kobe Bryant based on his performance last year considering all he's been threw. Anything he's said, anything he's done on or off the court should be thrown out the window. This guys under an enormous amount of stress. Put yourself in his shoes. Would it be fair to judge you if you had his situation? 

All things considered, he still had a damn good year, we saw many flashes of the great Kobe Bryant we *all* know. And he had some fantastic finishes. Video I'm sure you'll see highlighted 20+ years from now. He may not of had a great year last year... but it was as close to great as it gets.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>IV</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't think any intelligent person would criticize Kobe Bryant based on his performance last year considering all he's been threw. Anything he's said, anything he's done on or off the court should be thrown out the window. This guys under an enormous amount of stress. Put yourself in his shoes. Would it be fair to judge you if you had his situation?
> ...


Great points here IV. 

I actually thought he had a great year considering where he started from. He came off two surgeries of the knee and shoulder. He didn't work out all summer. He was skinny, nerve racked and injured. 

Had GP not disappeared the last half of the season and malone not gotten hurt the Lakers might have won the title. 

In the Finals the Lakers needed great Kobe and got pretty good Kobe instead. 

We had 1 rebounder in the finals and 2 scorers it was gonna be tough to beat a balanced team. Just bad timing something that always seems to follow Karl malone. 

And I haven't even mentioned the stress of the charges. 

I was of the thought before the season that maybe he should have sat out the season. The mental strain was gonna be too much. But I'm glad he gave it a go.


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## rellim (Nov 12, 2002)

If you asked any unbiased person, about jordans scoring numbers, they'd have to admit that they were inflated.

If Kobe had the preferential treatment from the refs, he'd average 35+ a game. 

In Jordan's heyday, Magic was exiting the league, and Jordan and the Bulls were the league, period. There were times when players wouldn't even touch Jordan, and get called for fouls. This happend all the time. Jordan was the league's money maker, and he was treated as so by the refs, and the media.

In reference to Shaq, he's a good player due to his size, but since he entered the league, what part of his game has he ever really worked on?
I remember him calling Tim Duncan big fundamentals, sarcastically during an all-star game. I guess Shaq didn't realize that maybe he be able to score buckets outside of 2 feet if he's spent some time in the gym working on his game, instead of getting fat every off-season off of burger king, nestle crunches or whatever else he pigs out on.

Shaq feels bitter whenever someone gets more limelight than him. Penny was beloved in Orlando, who'd just recently had a losing effort in the finals, but he bolted for the Lakers for the $ and the spotlight. He's a lazy player who is able to get over because of freakish size and athleticism. He leaves an average of 10 points (sometimes more) at the free throw line evergame, which takes away many wins that the Lakers could have had in the bag. Shaq is also a victim of fatigue. He will quit on you when he gets tired and won't fight through it stubbornly as Kobe will. Anyone with a brain should know that Kobe is the player who brought competitive and toughness to the Lakers. Kobe always took the challenges along with all of the blame for losing. 

Shaq, would have never won anything without Kobe. He once made the excuse that he respected Olajuwon in the finals. He has a soft mentality inside of the big bad character he likes to portray. You think MJ or Kobe, or Magic or Bird would ever give someone so much respect that they were swept by them in the finals.

Even with Shaq in Miami, they still won't be able to beat the Pistons, or Indiana. 
DeWayne Wade had a nice year, but he has a long way to go. Eddie Jones is as soft as a baby's a$$. He has no greatness to go along with his brute force and size.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

rellim,



> If you asked any unbiased person, about jordans scoring numbers, they'd have to admit that they were inflated.





> If Kobe had the preferential treatment from the refs, he'd average 35+ a game.


jordans #'s were inflated?!?!?!! dude, what are you talking about? have you ever heard of the jordan rules and what the pistons did to him in his early years? they basically hacked him everytime he drove the lane and no fouls were ever called.
and i laugh at that second quote. kobe's had preferential treatment ever since his 2nd year. he was annointed jordans heir that year before he even did anything to resemble jordan.
unlike kobe, jordan had to work his way into being the BEST.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Butler would be nice trade bait IMO for Chandler or Wilcox. Someone is dangling a PF out there. 

A Butler swap for Wilcox would be amazing. Either way, I think if the Lakers can dangle him, I would do so. Even Troy Murphy for Butler would be nice (although, I doubt GS will give him up).


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> rellim,
> 
> 
> ...


This is a joke So now Kobe hasn't worked his way now huh

I can make the argument that Kobe's had it much harder working his way than MJ had. MJ had been to college 3 years, Kobe came in as a 17 yr old rookie thats much harder to be that young. 

Get over the Jordan rules the Pistons were holding teams to 90ppg back then these Pistons were holding teams to 70ppg. Get off that kick. 

Get off the MJ worship greatness hasn't stopped with him. 

You must be young and haven't watched MJ pre 91 when he wasn't championship MJ I watched as he was without Pippen 38-42 MJ, 30-52 MJ and 40-42 MJ his 1st 3 seasons without Pippen. 

After Pippen 50 wins. I remember this MJ . I remember the MJ who was called selfish, I remember the MJ who they thought wouldn't ever win a title without a good big man. Sound familiar.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

jazzy,



> Get over the Jordan rules the Pistons were holding teams to 90ppg back then these Pistons were holding teams to 70ppg. Get off that kick.


back then teams were also scoring much more points than they are today? so whats your point?

and in case you don't know about the jordan rules - it was basically design to shut down 1 person - jordan!! everytime he drove the lane, 3 guys would jump into him and hack him. of course no fouls are ever called for jordan back then.



> You must be young and haven't watched MJ pre 91 when he wasn't championship MJ I watched as he was without Pippen 38-42 MJ, 30-52 MJ and 40-42 MJ his 1st 3 seasons without Pippen.


get off the young crap. i'm probably older and watched more bball than you have. do you even KNOW what kind of teammates jordan had before scottie?
his rookie year - quentin daly, brad sellers, and dave corzine.. yes! complete utter scrubs!! do you even know these guys??? i don't expect you to or anyone else to since they are complete garbage. kobe came into the league with NVE, eddie, shaq, elden, and ceballos. it was amazing that bulls actually won that many games with scrubs like that.


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## hotel312 (Jul 13, 2004)

*jazzy1*

Who sounds young? You need to educate yourself. Basketball is a team game, and the "selfish" Jordan you refer to averaged more assists, reb, stls, blocks, points, and shot a better % in the years you mentioned than your boy's career averages(other than his injury season w/ just 7 starts)!! There you go, punked again!!! The one guy wrote on hear that noone is saying that Kobe compares to Jordan, I guess that makes you NOONE!! Maybe you could take a class at your local Community College in basketball 101..............


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> jazzy,
> 
> 
> ...





You conveniently left off George ' The Ice Man " Gervin 16ppg, Orlando Woolridge a 20ppg scorer and a guy named Charles Oakley remember him so get off that kick bringing up scrubs to make an invalid point. 

I'm not disputing that MJ was great but you only seem to remember the glory, you forget the time he wouldn't pass to a wide open Cartwright and and forced shots up all the time, the time he told teammates to not pass to Cartwright to have BC threaten to break his leggs, small things like that. That MJ wanted a young Pippen traded, that a young MJ got Doug Collins fired, see where I'm going with this look at the complete picture not just a snapshot from the title winning MJ which is as part of his legacy as the other stuff. 

Point is the negative things with MJ never stopped him from being great so stop feeding off of Kobe's negative things. He's on his way to MJ ville. 

How well did NVE, Eddie Jones, and Shaq fit that they were scared to take clutch shots that the only one with guts to shoot was a teenage Kobe, yeah those guys are mighty tough. getting swept and all. 

How old are you give me a range I can tell basically already but I'm interested. I don't mean to take a personal attack about you so we're cool as far as thats concerned. Its just madenning that MJ fans act like Greatness stopped when he retired that someone else dare approach his legacy. 

Times were different then, guys were less athletic and more skilled back then , players were smaller at the 2 spot and slower. The game has changed. 

MJ isn't gonna go down in the history of the World as the greatest player ever, better players always come along. 

BTW I think Magic's the greatest of alltime.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

jazzy,



> You conveniently left off George ' The Ice Man " Gervin 16ppg, Orlando Woolridge a 20ppg scorer and a guy named Charles Oakley remember him so get off that kick bringing up scrubs to make an invalid point.


Before scottie, MJ only played with woolridge for basically 1 year - his rookie year. 
MJ only played with Gervin for 7 games.
MJ only played with Oakley for 1 year - his 3rd year in the league, and i believe they made the playoffs that year.

in his 4th season, scottie came along and you know the rest.....

I don't consider gervin a teammate of jordans if they only played together for 7 games. Woolridge was an okay player, but they played together in Jordan ROOKIE year, and everyone needs a year to adjust. With jordan and oakley in the 3rd year, bulls made playoffs.


so to summarize......yes, jordan did play with a bunch of scrubs his first few years!!


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

jazzy,



> MJ isn't gonna go down in the history of the World as the greatest player ever, better players always come along.


yeah i agree. there will be a better player than MJ. MJ even said this himself. I believe its in one of his videos. probably come fly with me.

unfortunately for laker fans, i don't think this next better player is kobe. kobe hasn't come close statistically, mentally, and untangibly. Unless, kobe leads his team to multiple titles and puts up better statistics, he's not the one. Lebron will probably most likely be the ONE.



> BTW I think Magic's the greatest of alltime.


why do you think magic's greater than jordan. jordan has more titles, and better stats and accomplished more with less talent.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> why do you think magic's greater than jordan. jordan has more titles, and better stats and accomplished more with less talent.


How would you know, have you ever *watched* a single game Magic played in, ever? I've seen 95% of Jordan's entire career and about 85% of Magic's entire career, how about you?

For that matter, have you even watched enough of Kobe's career to talk about him at all? Judging by your "analysis", probably not.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> jazzy,
> 
> 
> ...



Magic averaged 19.5ppg, 11.2 assists and 7.2 rpg. 

Magic influenced in a game almost 42 pts a game . played in 8 NBA Finals and had more to do with the NBA than MJ did. Magic and Bird saved the league. 

Magic is the league's only 6'9 pg that makes him totally unique nothing unique about MJ's game David Thompson and Dr.J played the same style as MJ but Magic set the mold with his style and size. 

MJ won titles in an era where there were no great teams. 

In Magic's Era he played against the Celtics, and the Sixers each at one time or other were great teams. 

MJ didn't only played against Magic's Lakers back in 91 when Kareem was gone and magic and Worthy's games had started to decline some. 

Magic TO ME was the greatest of ALLTIME its my OPINION held by many as MJ is to many also.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> jazzy,
> 
> 
> ...



No MJ played with Woolridge for 2 seasons the same teams he played with Oakley on so no they weren't total scrubs and MJ couldn't get them to .500 so there you go. 

Face the facts 

MJ scored on guys like Ainge 6'2,Hornacek6'5 and slow ,Ehlo 6'7 and slow, Dumars 5'3 ,Starkes 6'3 Byron Scott 6'4 and Dan Marjele and Kevin Johnson in the finals . 

Kobe plays Bowen 6'7 athletic, ,Prince 6'9athletic, Hassell 6'5 athletic, Raja Bell 6'5 athletic and on and on and on. 

Kobe plays against great athlete's every night. Kobe could easily have dropped 63 on Ainge, Bird and DJ guarding him all game. Or scored on a 6'3 Dumars. 

Like I said before Kobe I think is gonna be the one to surpass MJ he has 3 rings already and is yet to be 26. Now that Shaq's gone Kobe could lead the league in scoring for the next 7-10 years or longer. 

And if the team comes together like it is. Kobe could surpass MJ's title total. Kobe could have his prime run until he's 36-37 Thats 12 years or so. 

Kobe could appraoch MJ's reign as scoring champ and approach MJ's MVP totals. 

Kobe has the game to be that guy. 

You just hate him because he's Jordanesque. 

Be easy though MJ will always be a legend. 

I'm done here , we're just going in circles.


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## U reach. I teach (May 24, 2003)

Jazzy, for real, quit waisting your time. Don't get me wrong, I'm with you on most of your points, but the only reason these haters keep coming back is to argue with you. Let's just agree to disagree and hope they go away. :gopray:


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## Ownerofpueblo (Aug 17, 2003)

Magic was something special. If isn't wasn't for the AIDS. Although, come to think of it, AIDS would really only be a problem if he cut himself, or bit his lip or something. 

I think it was that players were uncomfortable with it more then anything. But seriously, averaging 11 assists, and accomplishing what he did in a shortened career, says alot.


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## hotel312 (Jul 13, 2004)

*jazzy1*

Here you go again, *edited*!! Kobe has had an MVP to pass the ball to his entire career. How did MJ top him in assists when he didn't have an all-star to pass to those first few years?! Gervin was WAAAAY past his prime, but you probably didn't know that did you? Gervin was awesome most of his year in San Antonio and in Virginia with the Squires in the ABA(dyou probably didn't know that either, huh?). So pitiful, you are correct Magic was great but the best ever? Listen to Magic, Bird, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson. etc, etc and they say MJ was the best!! You just can't win can you? It would be sad if it wasn't so funny. Yes, over the years players in every sport get bigger, stronger, and faster, but not just the guys who play offense, E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E!! I thought maybe it would help if I broke it down for you. It just shows that people can convince themselves of anything if they put their minds to it. You kight wanna try a different argument because you are embarrasing yourself..........


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

i hope your not Koberules from RealGM.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> Magic averaged 19.5ppg, 11.2 assists and 7.2 rpg.
> 
> Magic influenced in a game almost 42 pts a game . played in 8 NBA Finals and had more to do with the NBA than MJ did. Magic and Bird saved the league.
> ...


When i read posts like this i get all warm inside...  

Although my mind tells me Wilt was the greatest ever, my heart speaks only of a certain Earvin Johnson... and i really like to see someone think the same... :greatjob:


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

jazzy,



> No MJ played with Woolridge for 2 seasons the same teams he played with Oakley on so no they weren't total scrubs and MJ couldn't get them to .500 so there you go.


MJ only played with woolridge for basically 1 season. YOU have no idea what your talking about.

84-85 season (jordans ROOKIE year FYI) and only 18 games in 85-86 (jordan actually only started 7 games). so once again you are WRONG. 7 Games does NOT does not equate to a season of basketball. You probably didn't even know that jordan got hurt that year did you???? so basically, in jordans 2nd FULL season, he takes the bulls to the playoffs with only oakley as a serviceable player. let's see how kobe does now? gosh....i don't even know why I answer sometimes. you probably didn't even know about jordans injury in his 2nd year. i guess you must be young. Theres no point for me to respond to the rest of your comments because you don't have the adequate knowledge.


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## hotel312 (Jul 13, 2004)

*Magic*

Magic was great, without a doubt. But he did win his titles with 2 Hall of Famers on the roster. Yes, there were more great teams when he won his, and I think the Lakers and Celtics of the 80's are better than the 90's Bulls or the 2000 Laker teams. I think most would say that Magic is the best PG ever and MJ the best SG ever. I think the big diggest difference is that MJ was so much more athletic than Magic or Bird, etc. I wish that MJ would have played with Kareem, sure his numbers wouldn't have been as high scoring, but it would have been fun to watch. That is why its so ridicoluos for people to mention Kobe in the same breath as any of these guys, maybe in a few years they can menytion him, but is laughable right now. MJ was a complete player, and David Thompson and DR J were flashy as hell, but they did have their weaknesses...............


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## City_Dawg (Jul 25, 2004)

Why cant we wait till Kobe has finished his carrer before any type of comparisons or elvuations are made, his only 25 you know

...no, thats too long to wait, i have no opinion on Kobe yet, i know he's a great player and thats it


BTW, i always thought Wilt was the best,IMO


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

ehl,



> How would you know, have you ever watched a single game Magic played in, ever? I've seen 95% of Jordan's entire career and about 85% of Magic's entire career, how about you?





> For that matter, have you even watched enough of Kobe's career to talk about him at all? Judging by your "analysis", probably not.


FYI, when i asked about whether why jazzy thinks magics better than jordan, it was a simple question and did not have anything to do with critiquing magic or praising jordan or as you would like to call baiting. you sure as hell are so darn sensitive about every little thing that even mentions lakers/kobe. why you get defensive about every little thing?? from your big time homerism, i think you are the one that hasn't watched jordan games. maybe only magic games. why would you watch anything else besides laker games? you're a big time homer.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> ehl,
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the superb analysis. I'll assume from your silence that you were born in the late 80's and haven't watched a single game Magic Johnson ever played in. Typical ignorant 90's goon.


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## rellim (Nov 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> rellim,
> 
> 
> ...


First of all, he had preferential treatment from the refs like no other players seen before. Jordan couldn't get touched without a foul being called. Jordan got the same calls against the Bad Boys, the fact is that the Pistons made the most of their fouls and hit him hard every time he penetrated. They sent him to the fouline instead of giving up layups, and And One's. I doubt that you even watched the Piston vs Bulls series if you say that fouls were never called. 

Kobe was annoited the next Jordan by the media. He was not the leagues savior as Jordan was when Magic and Bird were leaving. This is a different era.
Dude, the media wouldn't even take shots at Jodan. He was the Teflon Don in his day. Jordan also cursed at referees all the time an didn't get tec's called on him. Wake up man.

Everyone works there way to being the best, nothing has been given to Kobe Bryant. He's work hard on his game to become one of the games best. I can't really say the same for Shaq.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

ehl,



> Thanks for the superb analysis. I'll assume from your silence that you were born in the late 80's and haven't watched a single game Magic Johnson ever played in. Typical ignorant 90's goon.


you really need some comprehension classes. what silence are you talking about. i just responded to you!! 

from your response, i'll assume you never seen any of magic or jordans games and only hear what your daddy tells you. typical late 90's goon.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

rellim,



> First of all, he had preferential treatment from the refs like no other players seen before. Jordan couldn't get touched without a foul being called. Jordan got the same calls against the Bad Boys, the fact is that the Pistons made the most of their fouls and hit him hard every time he penetrated. They sent him to the fouline instead of giving up layups, and And One's. I doubt that you even watched the Piston vs Bulls series if you say that fouls were never called.


superstars ALWAYS get preferential treatment. I won't deny that. However, Jordan had to earn his. Boy, you laker fans that respond to me sure like to get technical about everything. when i said that no fouls were ever called....it was a freaken expression. Let me clarify. The refs didn't call as many fouls as they should have. I probably watched more NBA games than you ever have. Jordan had to defeat the Pistons in order to get the "torch" from magic and bird. He didn't get as many calls early on (the Jordan rules years) but he did get more later in his career. And that is because he earned them. Kobe on the other hand, was handed the reign by the media without ever doing a single thing. You probably didn't know that Kobe started in the ALL-star game, but couldn't even start on his own team did you? You either didn't know, or you choose to block it out. Remember the lakers-houston playoff series in i believe, kobe's 2nd year.? The one where pippen trips over kobe's foot and they call pippen for a foul. 5 seconds later, Kobe does the exact same thing, and Kobe goes to the free throw line?? This was at that time, Kobe (the unproven youngster) vs. Pippen (the championship veteran), and the refs still gave the call to Kobe. 





> Dude, the media wouldn't even take shots at Jodan. He was the Teflon Don in his day. Jordan also cursed at referees all the time an didn't get tec's called on him. Wake up ma


you really have no idea what you're talking about. the media took tons of shots at jordan BEFORE he won his titles. They called him a ballhog and that he wasn't a good teammate. Of course, he shuts everone up when he won his titles. Then the media started kissing his a$$. As of now, Kobe has not won anything as the #1 option. We'll see how he does. I doubt he will get the lakers far...but we'll see.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> ehl,
> 
> 
> ...


Do you realize just how ridiculous you sound? I was talking about your silence on the matter of how many Jordan/Magic games you watched, not that you responded at all, which obviously isn't silence as you say. Please, read carefully next time, you're making a fool of yourself. 

So, now, will you finally admit you've never watched Magic or Jordan in their primes, or never watched any significant tape of them after the fact? It would explain why you're so, uh, "confused". And if so, be prepared to answer some questions, as I won't take your word. 

And for the record, the only reason you're being treated this way is because you're blatantly trolling the boards by pretending to be some basketball guru who has watched certain players extensively. Saying things like "Kobe isn't top 5" or "Magic wasn't even close to Jordan" just isn't going to get you very far on a Laker board that knows for a fact that neither are true. Heck, my dead hamster knows better.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

ehl,



> Do you realize just how ridiculous you sound? I was talking about your silence on the matter of how many Jordan/Magic games you watched, not that you responded at all, which obviously isn't silence as you say. Please, read carefully next time, you're making a fool of yourself.


you need to clarify yourself then.




> So, now, will you finally admit you've never watched Magic or Jordan in their primes, or never watched any significant tape of them after the fact? It would explain why you're so, uh, "confused". And if so, be prepared to answer some questions, as I won't take your word.


i watched more NBA games than you have. Judging from your comments, ALL you watched are probably laker games. Unlike you, i realize that the NBA consists of other teams as well besides my homer team. You probably watched more Laker games, but I watched a fair share to make a critical analysis of the Lakers. You want to compare NBA knowledge?...YOU"RE gonna LOSE! I didn't want this to turn into a pissing contest about basketball, but remember, you are the one that brought up this attitude about don't knowing jack about basketball.





> And for the record, the only reason you're being treated this way is because you're blatantly trolling the boards by pretending to be some basketball guru who has watched certain players extensively. Saying things like "Kobe isn't top 5" or "Magic wasn't even close to Jordan" just isn't going to get you very far on a Laker board that knows for a fact that neither are true. Heck, my dead hamster knows better.



You, once again, have NO IDEA what you're talking about. FYI, it was jazzy that brought up the topic of magic first (post #30). I then asked a simple honest question about why he thought magic was better in post #32. YOU are the one that got SENSITIVE about aANY comment about the lakers and think its baiting or troll comments. Dude, your so much like your boy kobe. Always thinks the world is against him. I think you're copying him too much don't you think???

and let me say more on the magic issue. Not only did you 
"assume" that I was baiting or making "troll comments", you think that somehow somewhere in my posts, you think that I think magic sucks. FYI, Magic was great, but in no way he matches up with Jordan. The closest is probably Wilt. I heard a lot of arguments for Wilt being the best, but only a few for Magic. It was a simple to question to jazzy, and you overexaggerated and blew off steam!!

and Yes, i do think Kobe isn't top 5!! I said he was top 10 but not top 5. If you think that this thinking is ridiculous and troll-like then you have some serious issues about taking criticism of your hero and team.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> and Yes, i do think Kobe isn't top 5!! I said he was top 10 but not top 5. If you think that this thinking is ridiculous and troll-like then you have some serious issues about taking criticism of your hero and team.


Now i´m interested.

Could you elaborate why isn´t Kobe (All-Nba 1st team and All-Defense) in *your* Top-5?

BTW, where do you rank him in the Top-10? Behind what players?


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>erniejohnson</b>!
> If Malone comes back we'll have the best passing front court in the game. :yes:


we'll have the oldest frontcourt too. :|


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

paulo,


> BTW, where do you rank him in the Top-10? Behind what players?


sure no problem....i think i mentioned this in another post...but i'll do it again.

#1-3 (in no articular order) duncan, shaq, garnett

#4-5 (in no particular order) AI, Tmac

#6-12 (in no particular order) Yao, Vince , Kobe, Kidd, Pierce, J. Oneal, Dirk.

So kobe, at best in #6 on my list. probably most likely 6, or 7.
Keep in mind, that this is only based on best players currently, and not talent. If talent was considered, Lebron would be on this list.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

do you really expect to be taken seriously when you put vince carter, AI and yao ahead of kobe?


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

springgan9,



> do you really expect to be taken seriously when you put vince carter, AI and yao ahead of kobe?


do you expect to be taken seriously when you can't even read correctly? I didn't put VC or Yao ahead of Kobe. They're both in the same 6-12 range. Most likely kobe in 6, or 7. Why don't you learn how to read first before spouting your mouth off?


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## U reach. I teach (May 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> and Yes, i do think Kobe isn't top 5!! I said he was top 10 but not top 5. If you think that this thinking is ridiculous and troll-like then you have some serious issues about taking criticism of your hero and team.


It isn't a matter of thinking it's "troll like", or ridiculous, it's that (along with the rest of the logical Basketball world) we disagree with you. 1-3 is obvious, you can make an argument for Tmac at 4 (that debate can go on forever), but AI??? Come on man, we aren't "blindly sticking up for our hero", we're expressing our, and most of the basketball worlds opinion. Kobe and Tmac (in no particular order) are without question, the best perimeter players in the league.


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## City_Dawg (Jul 25, 2004)

AI's stock in the NBA has dropped, Kobe is way better than him

But, thats YOUR list so...


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> springgan9,
> 
> 
> ...


the fact that you have kobe in the same RANGE as vince carter is enough to label you a hater. off the top of my head, i can name 5 shooting guards ALONE better than vince carter, yet you have him as a top 10 player :laugh:. kobe, t-mac, ray, iverson, and pierce are all better than vince.

and you still haven't explained putting AI over kobe. i'd love to hear that logic.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> #1-3 (in no articular order) duncan, shaq, garnett
> 
> #4-5 (in no particular order) AI, Tmac
> ...


Dude, i respect your opinion, and i don´t want this thread to turn into another Kobe vs T-Mac debate...
But still... 

There are a lot of people that think T-Mac is equal to Kobe, and very few that think he is indeed better than #8... so for argument´s sake let´s say they are equal.... But Allen Iverson?

I love the little guys´guts, but putting him ahead of the Kobe/T-Mac tandem just seems unreallistic...

Be honest, now, jc... Put Kobe in the top-5 (4-A or 4-B doesn´t matter)... You know #8 can´t be that far below...


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Is this **** going to go on all season? :no:


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## Sean (Jun 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Is this **** going to go on all season? :no:


Man, I hope not.


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## City_Dawg (Jul 25, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Is this **** going to go on all season? :no:


If the Lakers dont play well, yes, expect a tidal wave of BS to befall these particular forums

(hey, i used a smart person word! )


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## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> Is this **** going to go on all season? :no:


'Fraid so. Every time the Lakers lose, haters will be here and say "Kobe sucks." Every time the Lakers win, haters will say "the other team just sucked." It don't matta what happens. I wouldn't be surprised if people started saying Kobe's only good because he has Luke Walton.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

hong kong, etal....



> Is this **** going to go on all season?


is the **** from the laker fans that responded to me gonna be keep coming everytime someone critiques laker boy kobe?? for crying out loud, you guys are ready to go postal just because i think kobe is the 6th or 7th ranked player in the nba and you guys think he is 4th (most laker fans) or higher (the ridicculous laker fans....you know who you are).

step back...look in the mirror and get a grip of yourself man!

you got some serious issues if you call it **** because someone ranked your hero 3 spots lower than you did.

hahahahahaaa. you guys are hilarious!!!


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

citydawg,



> If the Lakers dont play well, yes, expect a tidal wave of BS to befall these particular forums


If ANY team doesn't play well, expect a tidal wave of BS to befall them too. don't think its the laker fans that are singled out. You so called 'real' laker fans are way too sensitive on laker criticism. lakers lost the finals....you bet your *** there's gonna be some criticism.

it applies to every team. contrary to what some laker fans act, the world doesn't center around the lakers.


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## U reach. I teach (May 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>jc76ers</b>!
> you got some serious issues if you call it **** because someone ranked your hero 3 spots lower than you did.


I don't think he was talking about your point of view, I think he was talking about this pointless, endless argument. I'll admit my part in it, but I think EVERYONE is tired of it. Drop it already. Your opinion is well known, taken objectively, and disagreed upon. If you really think we're that ridiculous, go elseware.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>U reach, I teach</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't think he was talking about your point of view, I think he was talking about this pointless, endless argument. I'll admit my part in it, but I think EVERYONE is tired of it. Drop it already. Your opinion is well known, taken objectively, and disagreed upon. If you really think we're that ridiculous, go elseware.


Well said. I think we can all agree that anyone who thinks AI is a better player than Kobe at this point in their careers doesn't deserve the time of day.


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## spiraling (Feb 16, 2003)

> is the **** from the laker fans that responded to me gonna be keep coming everytime someone critiques laker boy kobe?? for crying out loud, you guys are ready to go postal just because i think kobe is the 6th or 7th ranked player in the nba and you guys think he is 4th (most laker fans) or higher (the ridicculous laker fans....you know who you are).


Watch as the season goes by if the Lakers do bad there's gonna be 100+ posts bashing kobe this kobe that. I understand that every team gets bash when you lose alot they even get bash by their fans, but not as much as the Lakers and kobe. The fact is there are more people that are waiting to see kobe fail than to see him succeed. The Lakers get all the attention just because of shaq and kb.



> If ANY team doesn't play well, expect a tidal wave of BS to befall them too. don't think its the laker fans that are singled out. You so called 'real' laker fans are way too sensitive on laker criticism. lakers lost the finals....you bet your *** there's gonna be some criticism.


I have to agree with you that kg, TD, and shaq are the top 3 players in the league. But can you please explain to me how AI and TMAC is better kb base on last season or the last few seasons. If this arguement came up like 3 or 4 yrs ago I have to agree that AI is better since he was THE ONE who carry the sixers to the final. But when he look at AI from the last 2 seasons he has decline and turn into a more of team player than a ballhogging one man dominator. Lets face it after guys like Bibby and Parker show up AI is not as dangerous as he use to be.

As for TMAC why do you think he's better? The fact that he has better stats? The fact that he carry a poor team into the playoff once or twice?(don't remember) The fact that not many can guard him? The fact that he is a human highlight wheel or human time bomb that's waiting to explode? I don't care how many facts you list kb can match him if evenly. Comon man even with shaq along side him he can avg good numbers and don't say because of shaq, he dominated every game that shaq was out and he definately have a poorer team than the magic if shaq's out. Until Tmac win some rings with Yao I'm will say kb is better.

VINCE? what has he done?
As for the rest they haven't show any kind of domination like the people mention above, but the future is unpredictable.


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## hotel312 (Jul 13, 2004)

*Locke*

You forgot to mention that if the Lakers don't play well the intelligent Laker fans will blame Kobe for breaking up the team/not playing well. You will blame someone else, you are lying to yourself. 

Iverson does have something over Kobe, he led his team to the NBA Finals, with less talent than Kobe has this year. All Kobe has done is ride Superman's cape! I cannot believe that you guys are so blinded that you can't rip your guy if he doesn't play well, you just find someone else to blame. The good news is that he won't get a chance to choke in the Finals for awhile.............


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## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

*Re: Locke*



> Originally posted by <b>hotel312</b>!
> You forgot to mention that if the Lakers don't play well the intelligent Laker fans will blame Kobe for breaking up the team/not playing well. You will blame someone else, you are lying to yourself.


Is that what'd you like the "intelligent" Laker fans to do if the team doesn't play well? Keep saying, "damn, we suck so we should've kept Shaq, boo-hoo. *Shaq didn't want to be here anymore. Phil Jackson was offered another contract and turned it down.* What part of that do people not understand?



> Iverson does have something over Kobe, he led his team to the NBA Finals, with less talent than Kobe has this year. All Kobe has done is ride Superman's cape! I cannot believe that you guys are so blinded that you can't rip your guy if he doesn't play well, you just find someone else to blame. The good news is that he won't get a chance to choke in the Finals for awhile.............


Great for A.I. What happened to the 76ers in those Finals? What has A.I. done since then? What does this have to do with the Lakers?

Yes, Kobe didn't play well in the Finals, not because he "choked" like you love to keep saying, it's because Detroit blanketed him with defenders and the supporting players couldn't do anything to help ease the pressure. Oh, I guess they should've just given it to Shaq everytime and the Lakers would've won. Well they did that in game 4 and still caught a beat-down.

Kobe will get his chance to show he can be a leader and to prove alot of naysayers and haters wrong. So I don't understand why all of these haters keep coming in going on and on about how bad a player he is. What are you trying to do? Trying to get all Laker fans to see it from your point of view and "admit" that Kobe sucks?

I hope you guys don't commit suicide if by some chance the Lakers are turn out to be a good team next year, because it seems to be your mission in life to see to it that Kobe fails.


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## Hibachi! (Sep 18, 2003)

> Is that what'd you like the "intelligent" Laker fans to do if the team doesn't play well? Keep saying, "damn, we suck so we should've kept Shaq, boo-hoo. *Shaq didn't want to be here anymore. Phil Jackson was offered another contract and turned it down. What part of that do people not understand?*


Come on now... Phil knew what was going to happen. They were handing the keys over to Kobe Bryant, and Phil didn't think they could win that way. He knew it was inside out, but that doesn't work without Shaq. Shaq knew what they were doing as well, that's why they both left. Don't kid yourself, if Kobe wasn't a free agent, Phil and Shaq would still be there...


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Please explain how I am about to go postal. I just said is this crap going to go on all season. 

Why not talk about your own damn team, rather come to the Laker board constantly and try to rundown the Lakers? I mean honestly, don't you have other things to do. Seriously. Do you even have a favorite team? I can assure you, I don't go to your favorite team's board and keep trashing them. Frankly, I don't give a damn who you root for. 

There are two things I know in this life. Those two things are that the Sun will rise and that jc76ers will be here annoying the hell out of every Laker fan in sight. If you want to continue to do so have at it, I was just asking a question to Laker fans, is this what I have to look forward to all season. 

I guess my answer is a resounding YES.  

About to go postal? Yeesh, *edited*

I am really close to clicking the ignore button, but unfortunately *edited* such as yourself, have so many posts on a given thread, it's hard to even read a thread here on this forum if I were to put you on ignore.

Name calling is not allowed.


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## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>SacKings384</b>!
> 
> 
> Come on now... Phil knew what was going to happen. They were handing the keys over to Kobe Bryant, and Phil didn't think they could win that way. He knew it was inside out, but that doesn't work without Shaq. Shaq knew what they were doing as well, that's why they both left. Don't kid yourself, if Kobe wasn't a free agent, Phil and Shaq would still be there...


That might be true, but Jerry Buss puts the final stamp on any move made. It's not like any player is out signing and releasing players and coaches. They have influence but they don't have the final say.

I still think everybody, INCLUDING KOBE, was being selfish in this whole situation.


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## jc76ers (Feb 4, 2004)

hong kong,
*baiting is not allowed*

yeah, i do have a favorite team. its the 76ers. the only problem is there's no much news on the team other than brian skinner signing with them. but who the hell wants to talk about skinner?!?!?!?!?
there's also rumors of them getting antoine and i already commented on that in the sixers page. 

why do i comment on the lakers??? duh, its cuz theres by far the most news on them. so of course there will be comments. turn on the tv. search the web. read the paper. its all laker laker laker news.

and to whoever asked about why i ranked tmac and Ai higher.....

AI lead his team of hardworking but talentless teammates to the NBA finals. he got injured this year and look how valuable he was to his team - no playoffs. his teammates love him and he's proven that he can take a team far while being the MAN and putting up great stats as well. KOBE hasn't proven to be he can be the man yet. we'll see this season but i doubt it.

as for tmac, i think his defense is underrated while kobe's is overrated. offensively, they are pretty similar except i think tmac has a better long range shot. he's also a year younger. they're pretty close, but tmac gets the edge because i honestly think there's more potential in him than kobe. I believe shaq was hiding kobe's deficiencies. like i said, we'll see this season....

***

oh, and please, no more comments about this being a tmac vs. kobe thing because it was a LAKER fan that asked me about it and i just responded.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

This is the last thing I respond to *edited*. This is pointless. You come here exclusively looking for a fight. Instead of us calming down, how about you go away? That seems like a fair trade-off.

*no need to get personal*


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## Sean (Jun 7, 2002)

Guys, we are not going to go through this every day. Post with with respect or don't post at all. If you don't like what someone constantly has to say, ignore them. Use the ignore feature. Telling them that they should go away or are "postal" does nothing but incite more BS and I'm sick of it.


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