# The Official Free Agent Feeding Frenzy Rumors Thread



## E.H. Munro

Might as well launch this with the storm of stories about to hit. Up first Aldridge is claiming that the Pelicans threw a huge offer at Tyreke Evans of all people. I have no idea how Evans and Holiday can share a backcourt. Apparently Demps is determined to make sure that the Sixers get two top ten picks next year.


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## Salomon

I heard somewhere that Atlanta would want to do a S&T with Josh Smith for Asik.


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## Salomon

E.H. Munro said:


> Apparently Demps is determined to make sure that the Sixers get two top ten picks next year.


 Top 5 is protected last I heard, so Philly might get screwed there.


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## Bogg

Salomon said:


> I heard somewhere that Atlanta would want to do a S&T with Josh Smith for Asik.


If Dwight went to Houston I'd be surprised if that _wasn't_ the next move the Rockets explored. They just might have some trouble finding the right contracts to match up to Smith's deal, so I wouldn't say it's a definite second domino.


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## RollWithEm

Jon Santiago said:


> Chances Tyreke signs w/ NOLA low if they plan on using him at SF. Source close to Evans says Reke won't "go anywhere for any amount as a 3."


Twitter @itsjonsantiago

So now Tyreke's agent is getting picky? We'll see how that strategy pays off for him.


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## RollWithEm

Also in the twittersphere, the Trailblazers are wooing Tony Allen and Korver to Brooklyn is


Marc Stein said:


> in the bag


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## E.H. Munro

RollWithEm said:


> Twitter @itsjonsantiago
> 
> So now Tyreke's agent is getting picky? We'll see how that strategy pays off for him.


Actually that makes me hopeful that Evans may finally be getting it. He's an awful SF and if he were going someplace to play there it would mean the cash is all he cared about.


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## Smath

Israeli internet sport site is reporting Dallas Mavs have signed Israeli young PG Gal Mekel for 3 years , for a total of 2.4M dollars.

Mekel now becomes the 2nd ever Israeli player in the NBA , he has the pot to do well there I think.


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## Smath

Oh may I add I personally know this kid , my friends brother was in his team at youth , and we used to play 1 on 1 with him , He's a hard worker and have a VERY good court vision , seeing how Mavs have no backcourt , I can see him starting for them if he does well.


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## Bogg

RollWithEm said:


> Also in the twittersphere, the Trailblazers are wooing Tony Allen and Korver to Brooklyn is


Korver to Brooklyn is a nice pickup, he'll fit in well with what the Nets are doing. However, that team is going to be _strictly_ half-court ball. If that got matched up with a real athletic run-and-gun team in the first round there's the makings of an upset already. 



E.H. Munro said:


> Actually that makes me hopeful that Evans may finally be getting it. He's an awful SF and if he were going someplace to play there it would mean the cash is all he cared about.


I still think Dallas is the best spot for him, they have the right combination of a players' owner/strong coach/accomplished veterans to put his career back on track. If gets out of the madhouse he could go back to a 20-5-5 kind of guy. 



Smath said:


> Oh may I add I personally know this kid , my friends brother was in his team at youth , and we used to play 1 on 1 with him , He's a hard worker and have a VERY good court vision , seeing how Mavs have no backcourt , I can see him starting for them if he does well.


Well, he's certainly going to a good organization. They'll give him the tools he'll need to succeed.


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## Smath

Bogg said:


> Korver to Brooklyn is a nice pickup, he'll fit in well with what the Nets are doing. However, that team is going to be _strictly_ half-court ball. If that got matched up with a real athletic run-and-gun team in the first round there's the makings of an upset already.
> 
> 
> 
> I still think Dallas is the best spot for him, they have the right combination of a players' owner/strong coach/accomplished veterans to put his career back on track. If gets out of the madhouse he could go back to a 20-5-5 kind of guy.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, he's certainly going to a good organization. They'll give him the tools he'll need to succeed.




yea unlike the first Israeli in the NBA who played for 2 bad franchises/coaches , Mekel will have a good franchise and a great coach , so I really see him doing well there , if you want an NBA analogy , he's very similar to Andre Miller.. big body PG with good court vision.


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## Bogg

Smath said:


> yea unlike the first Israeli in the NBA who played for 2 bad franchises/coaches , Mekel will have a good franchise and a great coach , so I really see him doing well there , if you want an NBA analogy , he's very similar to Andre Miller.. big body PG with good court vision.


Any news on where Casspi's looking to end up next year?


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## Basel

So I guess the Knicks are after Monta Ellis - not seeing how he and Melo would work well together.


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## e-monk

Salomon said:


> I heard somewhere that Atlanta would want to do a S&T with Josh Smith for Asik.


why would the Hawks do this when they have Horford locked up long term for less?


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## e-monk

Basel said:


> So I guess the Knicks are after Monta Ellis - not seeing how he and Melo would work well together.


the NBA is introducing new rules where more than one ball can be in play during any one possession


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## RollWithEm

Basel said:


> So I guess the Knicks are after Monta Ellis - not seeing how he and Melo would work well together.


They would be bringing him off the bench in a JR Smith role. In other words, they want him to do something Monta doesn't want to do. He's not going to NY.


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## RollWithEm

Chris Broussard said:


> Detroit's top priority this summer is to get Josh Smith or Andre Iguodala


 Twitter @Chris_Broussard


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## RollWithEm

Gery Woelfel said:


> There is definitely strong mutual interest between Chase Budinger and Bucks


 Twitter @GeryWoelfel


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## Bogg

Iguodala makes sense for the Pistons. If Detroit is really serious about signing Josh Smith, I'm hoping they're planning a follow-up Rondo trade built around Drummond or Monroe.


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## RollWithEm

The Bobcats are taking a hard run at Big Al Jefferson.


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## Hibachi!

Heat need to land Oden. Will also be interesting if they can once again pull a vet in on the cheap looking for a ring.


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## LeGoat06

RollWithEm said:


> The Bobcats are taking a hard run at Big Al Jefferson.


bobcats need to just try and start from scratch as much as possible. Zeller wasn't a good start either and I don't think Kemba will ever be a stud in this league


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## E.H. Munro

e-monk said:


> why would the Hawks do this when they have Horford locked up long term for less?


Because Asik is one of the best defensive centers in the NBA and allows the Hawks to move Horford to the PF spot? That gives them the makings of a killer defensive squad.


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## e-monk

dubious claim


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## Smath

Bogg said:


> Any news on where Casspi's looking to end up next year?


He has alot of offers from elite euro teams , but he said over and over again that he rather stay in the NBA , and will be choosing his team by the coach. I think he wants to be in the Spurs... but at this point no one knows yet.


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## hobojoe

Is Detroit's goal to make sure they're mediocre enough to miss out on Wiggins this year?

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## kbdullah

Basel said:


> So I guess the Knicks are after Monta Ellis - not seeing how he and Melo would work well together.


How could they even afford to bring in Monta


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## Diable

The only way I could see the Knicks paying Ellis is if they were able to S&T JR Smith. Of course JR Smith would be a perfect trainwreck in Milwaukee, so the Bucks might go for it.


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## BlakeJesus

e-monk said:


> why would the Hawks do this when they have Horford locked up long term for less?


Move Horford to PF, Asik at C.


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## e-monk

and suck


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## rocketeer

e-monk said:


> why would the Hawks do this when they have Horford locked up long term for less?


horford makes less than asik?


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## BlakeJesus

e-monk said:


> and suck


We would suck just as much, probably more, if we lost Smoove for nothing. Getting back a blue collar seven footer who is one of the single best rebounders in the league is better than nothing.


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## Hibachi!

I hope the Kings retain Reke. Going to be interesting to see how that shakes out.


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## e-monk

rocketeer said:


> horford makes less than asik?


yep, 12m per for the next 3 seasons - next season Asik makes 15m


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## e-monk

BlakeJesus said:


> We would suck just as much, probably more, if we lost Smoove for nothing. Getting back a blue collar seven footer who is one of the single best rebounders in the league is better than nothing.


being mediocre is not as advantageous as sucking outright - future picks would be better than a 15m salary


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## BlakeJesus

I don't know that Asik is going to be the difference between Atlanta being terrible or mediocre.


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## e-monk

well at the least you guys have tons of picks


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## rocketeer

e-monk said:


> yep, 12m per for the next 3 seasons - next season Asik makes 15m


you're missing a year in there. 36 mil over 3 seasons is more than 20 mil over 2 seasons.

either way, don't think it would be an ideal move for either team, but it definitely would not be as terrible as you are suggesting for the hawks.


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## e-monk

rocketeer said:


> you're missing a year in there. 36 mil over 3 seasons is more than 20 mil over 2 seasons.
> 
> either way, don't think it would be an ideal move for either team, but it definitely would not be as terrible as you are suggesting for the hawks.


oh that's right the new CBA stipulates that you factor in average salary over duration when evaluating salary cap restriction, I forgot

5m for Asik is pretty good, near max for Asik is well bad - the rockets are asking the hawks to take the wrong end of the shit stick on Asik's contract right when they'd probably like to have maximum flexibility


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## Bogg

e-monk said:


> oh that's right the new CBA stipulates that you factor in average salary over duration when evaluating salary cap restriction, I forgot
> 
> 5m for Asik is pretty good, near max for Asik is well bad - the rockets are asking the hawks to take the wrong end of the shit stick on Asik's contract right when they'd probably like to have maximum flexibility


Eh, Atlanta could flip Smith for Asik and something else (maybe the Greek forward they picked up in the Robinson trade), go get either Iggy or AK as your small forward, and make a couple smart signings in the back court to solidify a defensively elite playoff team for the next three to four years. They're probably not winning the title, but it's better than gutting the team for lottery balls when you have other options and half the league is doing that anyway.


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## LeGoat06

Apparently rondo wants C's to pick up Josh Smith. They won a national championship together in hs


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## Bogg

LeGoat06 said:


> Apparently rondo wants C's to pick up Josh Smith. They won a national championship together in hs


Maybe the Rockets/Hawks can pick up Rondo. I'm nowhere near as down on Rondo as EH is, but I want no part of a Rondo/Green/Smith core, especially after Pierce and KG are gone.


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## LeGoat06

Bogg said:


> Maybe the Rockets/Hawks can pick up Rondo. I'm nowhere near as down on Rondo as EH is, but I want no part of a Rondo/Green/Smith core, especially after Pierce and KG are gone.


But like I said they were a nice battery in HS, considered one of the greatest HS teams of all time I believe they went 41-0. I know this isn't HS by any means but if your star player gets along with and plays well with another stud player i'd take a chance. Unless there really trying to take and get Wiggins but that's not in Boston sports teams nature


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## RollWithEm

The Warriors stepping up and offering a sign-and-trade including Andrew Bogut and Klay Thompson for Dwight Howard is a power play that probably represents the best choice for the Lakers. That might also represent Dwight's best chance of winning games. Interesting maneuver from that franchise.


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## RollWithEm

Yahoo! Sports said:


> Oklahoma City has begun an aggressive pursuit of Philadelphia free-agent guard Dorell Wright, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.


That would be a sneaky good pick-up by the Thunder.


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## LeGoat06

I think ppl overrate Dwight.


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## RollWithEm

Alex Kennedy said:


> C.J. Watson is closing in on an agreement with the Indiana Pacers, according to league source.


Twitter @AlexKennedyNBA


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## Bogg

LeGoat06 said:


> But like I said they were a nice battery in HS, considered one of the greatest HS teams of all time I believe they went 41-0. I know this isn't HS by any means but if your star player gets along with and plays well with another stud player i'd take a chance. Unless there really trying to take and get Wiggins but that's not in Boston sports teams nature


Rondo/Smith isn't enough to get you a title in the NBA, and jettisoning Pierce/KG for a pile of nothing signals what direction Boston's headed in. No sense in reversing course so early. Now, if you have Harden and Howard, adding Smith _and_ Rondo to those two (even though I'm reasonably sure there's no good way to do it) could make you favorites.


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## RollWithEm

KC Johnson said:


> Gar Forman reiterated Bulls are optimistic they will resign Nazr Mohammed.


Twitter @KCJHoop


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## RollWithEm

Yannis Koutroupis said:


> According to a source, the Rockets told Howard he'd have input on personnel, but were vague about what their next moves would be.


Twitter @YannisHW

As well they should be.


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## Hibachi!

RollWithEm said:


> The Warriors stepping up and offering a sign-and-trade including Andrew Bogut and Klay Thompson for Dwight Howard is a power play that probably represents the best choice for the Lakers. That might also represent Dwight's best chance of winning games. Interesting maneuver from that franchise.


Wow that would be a solid move for the Lakers. Great move for the Warriors too. They'd be a scary good team.


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## kbdullah

RollWithEm said:


> The Warriors stepping up and offering a sign-and-trade including Andrew Bogut and Klay Thompson for Dwight Howard is a power play that probably represents the best choice for the Lakers. That might also represent Dwight's best chance of winning games. Interesting maneuver from that franchise.


Wonder if the Lakers would rather see Dwight go to Houston than help a division rival acquire him by trade. But I don't know if Steph Curry + Dwight + David Lee is really better than Harden + Dwight + Parsons and all of Houston's younger assets. Plus I think Jarrett Jack and Carl Landry are free agents. So all in all, Golden State acquiring Dwight via trade wouldn't be a better team than Houston acquiring him via FA.


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## RollWithEm

kbdullah said:


> Wonder if the Lakers would rather see Dwight go to Houston than help a division rival acquire him by trade. But I don't know if Steph Curry + Dwight + David Lee is really better than Harden + Dwight + Parsons and all of Houston's younger assets.


Don't forget Jarrett Jack resigning and the development of Harrison Barnes when you think about the resulting Warriors. Still though, whether Golden State is a better situation to win titles will all depend on Curry's ankles. Scary proposition.


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## ATLien

Larry Drew wants Milwaukee to pursue Jeff Teague, Jeff Teague wants to run the other way.


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## e-monk

RollWithEm said:


> Don't forget Jarrett Jack resigning and the development of Harrison Barnes when you think about the resulting Warriors. Still though, whether Golden State is a better situation to win titles will all depend on Curry's ankles. Scary proposition.


apparently it's_ Barnes or Thompson_ as part of the S&T package

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/...s-golden-state-warriors-2013-free-agency-2013

thoughts on which would be better? I'd lean towards Barnes


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## RollWithEm

e-monk said:


> apparently it's_ Barnes or Thompson_ as part of the S&T package
> 
> http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/...s-golden-state-warriors-2013-free-agency-2013
> 
> thoughts on which would be better? I'd lean towards Barnes


You would lean towards keeping Barnes or trading Barnes?


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## RollWithEm

Jared Zwerling said:


> League source: The #Knicks are interested in free agent big man Brandan Wright. The Lakers, Mavericks, Pistons & Raptors are also after him.


Twitter @JaredZwerling


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## RollWithEm

Chris Herrington said:


> A source says Grizzlies have declined qualifying offers to both Austin Daye and Jon Leuer, making both unrestricted free agents.


via Twitter


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## Bogg

Golden State might be able to put together an interesting trade for Asik, if Dwight goes to Houston. Draymond Green just seems like a Morey kind of guy, and Biedrins' salary matches up well. Throw in a pair of picks of some sort and you might have something.


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## e-monk

RollWithEm said:


> You would lean towards keeping Barnes or trading Barnes?


as a Lakers fan I would prefer him as part of the package


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## hobojoe

Give me Barnes over Thompson going forward.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## kbdullah

I'd be scared to split up the Splash Brothers if I was Golden State. If Barnes didn't make the next leap, it'd just be Curry, Dwight, and Lee's massive contract carrying the team.


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## RollWithEm

e-monk said:


> as a Lakers fan I would prefer him as part of the package


If I'm Bob Myers, I'm torn between those two. Sure Barnes has more upside, but he's also shown more knucklehead propensity than has Thompson. Those are the types of coin tosses that lose GMs their jobs.


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## Wilmatic2

Barnes > Thompson. Do it Mitch!


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## RollWithEm

RollWithEm said:


> If I'm Bob Myers, I'm torn between those two. Sure Barnes has more upside, but he's also shown more knucklehead propensity than has Thompson. Those are the types of coin tosses that lose GMs their jobs.


Still, I think I would want Barnes if I was the Lakers.


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## JonMatrix

Dwight is insisting that Houston gets another max free agent.


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## Hibachi!

JonMatrix said:


> Dwight is insisting that Houston gets another max free agent.


I hate this guy more and more as the days go by.


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## Hibachi!

Btw what the hell is Milwuakee doing? Do they just run to live at the lower end of the lottery picks for the rest of their NBA lives? They seem obsessed with going after players that will barely keep their head above water.


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## kbdullah

Hoopshype saying Josh Smith also meeting with the Rockets today.


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## Hibachi!

C - Howard
PF - Josh Smith/Parsons
SF - Parsons/Smith
SG - Harden 
PG - Lin

Not a bad starting 5 if they can make it happen.


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## e-monk

Atlanta will have to take on Asik which I don't think gets them anywhere but who knows? Maybe Houston can sweeten the pot with a first round a couple seasons down the line?


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## Bogg

Hibachi! said:


> C - Howard
> PF - Josh Smith/Parsons
> SF - Parsons/Smith
> SG - Harden
> PG - Lin
> 
> Not a bad starting 5 if they can make it happen.


Then they can spin Lin, spare parts, and a bunch of draft picks off for Rondo to make me happy.


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## e-monk

Time Warner is going to offer D12 his own TV show if he stays


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## rocketeer

the rockets with harden, parson, josh smith, dwight would be awesome.

in that situation, i have to think lin would definitely be on the way out though to free up some money and get players who would fit better without the ball in their hands.


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## Bogg

rocketeer said:


> in that situation, i have to think lin would definitely be on the way out though to free up some money and get players who would fit better without the ball in their hands.


I don't know, it isn't like he's got a hopeless jumper, and he's not a risk to cause trouble in the locker room if other guys are getting more touches. Plus, Harden's a good creator for a shooting guard, but he isn't a primary distributor, either. If the Rockets can upgrade from a talent standpoint, I could definitely see them trading Lin, but I don't think they're going to ship him out for a pure spot-up shooter, either.


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## RollWithEm

David Aldridge said:


> Source confirms @Alex Kennedy report that guard C.J. Watson has agreed in principle to two-year deal with Pacers. Excellent for both.


Twitter @daldridgetnt

Big upgrade over Augustin.


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## Bubbles

Hibachi! said:


> Btw what the hell is Milwuakee doing? Do they just run to live at the lower end of the lottery picks for the rest of their NBA lives? They seem obsessed with going after players that will barely keep their head above water.


They seem very content with doing this.


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## Diable

Damn that's a great move for the Pacers. They could still use another quality guard though. I just don't think you can trust Stephenson, he's just way too erratic for a contending team. It would be a lot better if you're in a place where you can send him to the pine any time he started to make you feel queasy.


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## RollWithEm

Marc Stein said:


> One of the teams that troubles Minnesota in Wolves' bid to retain Andrei Kirilenko: San Antonio. I'm told Spurs have AK-47 in their sights


Twitter @ESPNSteinLine

Interesting development.


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## ATLien

During the season, Josh Smith and Dwight Howard are two of the site's biggest punching bags. Definitely see possibility for a train wreck if they play together.


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## Dee-Zy

Lin
Harden
Parsons
Smith
Howard

is horrible spacing. Howard will have no space working inside and you will have trigger happy Smith bricking 3s. Lin better develop a reliable 3 or that ship is going straight into the ground.


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## King Sancho Fantastic

> @ramonashelburne: Rumblings that Clippers and Bucks are discussing deal involving JJ Redick and Eric Bledsoe.


Huh??


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## RollWithEm

Did any of you actually watch the playoffs and come away from it thinking there's even a remote chance that Lin starts over Patrick Beverly? Beverly is the better player in almost every single conceivable way.


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## FSH

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Huh??


Man JJ Reddick keeps getting traded for really good young players. Im guessing this would make up for Bucks dealing Tobias Harris for JJ


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## FSH

RollWithEm said:


> Did any of you actually watch the playoffs and come away from it thinking there's even a remote chance that Lin starts over Patrick Beverly? Beverly is the better player in almost every single conceivable way.


Houston needs Lin around to keep that Asian fanbase after Yao retired


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## RollWithEm

FSH said:


> Houston needs Lin around to keep that Asian fanbase after Yao retired


I don't think they should cut him. I just think he should play 12 - 15 minutes in relief of Beverly.


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## BlakeJesus

If the Clipps got back JJ/John Henson or something like that, I think that would be a great deal for both teams.


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## FSH

Dee-Zy said:


> Lin
> Harden
> Parsons
> Smith
> Howard
> 
> is horrible spacing. Howard will have no space working inside and you will have trigger happy Smith bricking 3s. Lin better develop a reliable 3 or that ship is going straight into the ground.



Ryan Anderson/Stretch 4 instead of Josh Smith and the team is pretty good. The team doesnt really need Josh Smith


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## ATLien

e-monk said:


> Atlanta will have to take on Asik which I don't think gets them anywhere but who knows? Maybe Houston can sweeten the pot with a first round a couple seasons down the line?


Even with no Asik, Atlanta probably gets out tanked by Philadelphia, Boston & about 5 or 6 other teams.


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## RollWithEm

BlakeJesus said:


> If the Clipps got back JJ/John Henson or something like that, I think that would be a great deal for both teams.


Nah. That's too much for Bledsoe. I think Henson will be a better pro than Bledsoe longterm.


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## e-monk

ATLien said:


> Even with no Asik, Atlanta probably gets out tanked by Philadelphia, Boston & about 5 or 6 other teams.


but why pay 15m for someone to help you be mediocre?


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## FSH

RollWithEm said:


> Nah. That's too much for Bledsoe. I think Henson will be a better pro than Bledsoe longterm.


Ya i very much doubt Bucks would give up Henson since it looks like they are heading into starting the young guys


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## RollWithEm

Sean Deveney said:


> Just heard that Pelicans offer to Tyreke Evans would be 4 years, $40 mil. That's a $35 mil-per-year backcourt, assuming Eric Gordon stays


Twitter @SeanDeveney

Really bad idea to sign him as a SF (whether he actually wants to play that position or not).


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## ATLien

e-monk said:


> but why pay 15m for someone to help you be mediocre?


To improve your team?


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## RollWithEm

Ken Berger said:


> Clips-Magic still discussing Afflalo for Bledsoe/Butler swap, source says. Theory: LA wants to see OJ Mayo/Tony Allen pursuit through first.


Twitter @KBergCBS

Yeah, that makes sense. Afflalo would be a fall back option if they can't land their top targets.


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## King Sancho Fantastic

> @daldridgetnt: Pacers announce Nate McMillan to join staff as associate head coach.


...


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## rocketeer

RollWithEm said:


> Did any of you actually watch the playoffs and come away from it thinking there's even a remote chance that Lin starts over Patrick Beverly? Beverly is the better player in almost every single conceivable way.


lol. beverly is a better fit on the team, but lin is definitely the better player. i really hope for his sake that the rockets deal him to a team that's a better fit for what he does.


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## RollWithEm

rocketeer said:


> lol. beverly is a better fit on the team, but lin is definitely the better player. i really hope for his sake that the rockets deal him to a team that's a better fit for what he does.


Beverly is quicker, faster, stronger, and smarter than Lin. He has a better jumper, better handles, better court vision, and plays better overall defense. Lin is not better than Beverly in one single, discernible basketball skill... other than being Asian.


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## FSH

rocketeer said:


> i really hope for his sake that the rockets deal him to a team that's a better fit for what he does.


Brings in Millions of Asian fans? Orlando might work


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## e-monk

ATLien said:


> To improve your team?


to mediocrity with no further upside? why not just give Smith the max in the first place if that's all your interested in doing?


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## ATLien

e-monk said:


> to mediocrity with no further upside?


So don't try to work, sit on your ass, and hope for a lottery ticket. Sounds like the welfare approach.


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## Dee-Zy

FSH said:


> Ryan Anderson/Stretch 4 instead of Josh Smith and the team is pretty good. The team doesnt really need Josh Smith


Exactly.


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## kbdullah

RollWithEm said:


> Twitter @SeanDeveney
> 
> Really bad idea to sign him as a SF (whether he actually wants to play that position or not).


I can't imagine New Orleans compounding their issues at SG by also adding Evans. They _have_ to intend to move Eric Gordon, don't they? Drafting Austin Rivers is what upset him in the first place.


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## rocketeer

RollWithEm said:


> Beverly is quicker, faster, stronger, and smarter than Lin. He has a better jumper, better handles, better court vision, and plays better overall defense. Lin is not better than Beverly in one single, discernible basketball skill... other than being Asian.


you're wrong. there isn't even an argument. beverly played his best basketball in the playoffs for sure, but let's be real here.


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## doctordrizzay




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## NOFX22

BlakeJesus said:


> If the Clipps got back JJ/John Henson or something like that, I think that would be a great deal for both teams.


Hell nah I'd rather do the Orlando trade


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## rocketeer

FSH said:


> Brings in Millions of Asian fans? Orlando might work


lin has clearly demonstrated that he's a really good player in a situation where he's dictating the offense. and yeah, millions of fans are good too.


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## e-monk

ATLien said:


> So don't try to work, sit on your ass, and hope for a lottery ticket. Sounds like the welfare approach.


um no, how about don't take half measures that hold no long term promise of helping your team and just lock up cash on the short term?


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## RollWithEm

rocketeer said:


> you're wrong. there isn't even an argument. beverly played his best basketball in the playoffs for sure, but let's be real here.


I watched probably 60 plus Rockets games last year, and there is simply nothing that Jeremy Lin does at the level of a top 30 NBA point guard right now. Beverly has 2 or 3 top 30 skills.


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## e-monk

rocketeer said:


> lin has clearly demonstrated that he's a really good player in a situation where he's dictating the offense. and yeah, millions of fans are good too.


you mean for like 3 weeks?


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## RollWithEm

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> @daldridgetnt: Pacers announce Nate McMillan to join staff as associate head coach.
> 
> 
> 
> ......
Click to expand...

This is seriously a game-changer. This move coupled with the CJ Watson move make me feel like Indiana is cemented as the second best team in the East ahead of Brooklyn, Chicago, and New York.


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## doctordrizzay

That whole Linsanity movement a few seasons ago, was probably the craziest thing I've seen in sports.


----------



## FSH

RollWithEm said:


> This is seriously a game-changer. This move coupled with the CJ Watson move make me feel like Indiana is cemented as the second best team in the East ahead of Brooklyn, Chicago, and New York.


Eh. I like Indiana and Danny Granger coming back is gonna help with their scoring problems but they need a true PG that can run that team. George Hill is good but he isnt that and niether is CJ Watson


----------



## RollWithEm

FSH said:


> Eh. I like Indiana and Danny Granger coming back is gonna help with their scoring problems but they need a true PG that can run that team. George Hill is good but he isnt that and niether is CJ Watson


I actually do not agree that they are a team that "needs" a true PG. I think they're much better off with a defender/shooter-type like Hill. Their style of offense does not require a great PG to run it.


----------



## Salomon

Pelicans' offer for Tyreke Evans going up as high for 4 years and $48 million.


----------



## R-Star

FSH said:


> Eh. I like Indiana and Danny Granger coming back is gonna help with their scoring problems but they need a true PG that can run that team. George Hill is good but he isnt that and niether is CJ Watson


You didn't watch a single Pacers game this season, did you?

They aren't a team that waits for it's PG to set up plays. Hill fits their style perfectly.


----------



## Diable

What Indiana needs most of all is to take better care of the basketball as a team. Their offense is already troublesome and turnovers would be the thing I would be looking to address team wide. I like a lot of the things that Hill does, but he does not create at a high level and all that team needs is to be more efficient on offense.


----------



## R-Star

Diable said:


> What Indiana needs most of all is to take better care of the basketball as a team. Their offense is already troublesome and turnovers would be the thing I would be looking to address team wide. I like a lot of the things that Hill does, but he does not create at a high level and all that team needs is to be more efficient on offense.


The teams offense in general creates turnovers. It's not as though Hill is a turnover machine. They don't run 1st pass from the PG type set plays.

You want to get rid of the turnovers, you have to dump Vogel. That isn't happening.


----------



## Dee-Zy

Pacers took Miami to 7 games. With Hibbert getting better, Granger back (hopefully he won't be a Gay issue as in Pacers are better without him) and with Paul George, I don't think they need an upgrade over Hill. He just needs to keep improving and grow.

The minor tweeks are actually very good, especially considering the cap space. I think they only need a little more bench fire power and they need consistent 3pt shooting and a executing an offensive scheme better.

As a Heat fan, they scare me. They don't need to land a superstar. PG is enough, they just need to surround him and Hibbert well.


----------



## Hibachi!

Man that's going to be a tough match for the Kings. 4 years/$48? The question is whether or not Tyreke will take that, as it's pretty clear unless they can unload Gordon's contract (no way) that he will have to play the 3.


----------



## NOFX22

Bring back Eric Gordon to the clippers


----------



## MemphisX

Take the money and sort the rest of the ish out. I think the Kings either match or try to S&T him to anyone willing...


----------



## FSH

R-Star said:


> The teams offense in general creates turnovers. It's not as though Hill is a turnover machine. They don't run 1st pass from the PG type set plays.
> 
> You want to get rid of the turnovers, you have to dump Vogel. That isn't happening.


Hmm. Maybe this is the whole point that they need a true PG? Hey we have the most turnover in the NBA but we dont need a True PG! Hey we are in the last 3rd in the NBA in scoring but we dont need a PG!

Great thinking!


----------



## FSH

R-Star said:


> You didn't watch a single Pacers game this season, did you?
> 
> They aren't a team that waits for it's PG to set up plays. Hill fits their style perfectly.


And that why their offense is shit. If Pacers had a real PG and a real offense that create they would be a top team. Pacers are great at everything else but that offense is lacking the true playmaker. It was great watching them in the Eastern Finales but anyone with eye could tell what that team was obviously missing


----------



## kbdullah

Mavericks might try to do Bledsoe-Mayo sign-and-trade w/ Clipps. 

via Marc Stein


----------



## Bubbles

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Huh??


I'm all for that so long as we don't include Henson.


----------



## R-Star

FSH said:


> And that why their offense is shit. If Pacers had a real PG and a real offense that create they would be a top team. Pacers are great at everything else but that offense is lacking the true playmaker. It was great watching them in the Eastern Finales but anyone with eye could tell what that team was obviously missing


They would be a great team? They're already a legit top contender.

And no, anyone who actually watches the team and didn't just base their opinion on the east finals knows that Frank Vogel runs a grind it out system on both ends. They play slow and methodically.

Speaking of the east finals, the games the Pacers were blown out were the games Indiana tried to play up tempo offense against Miami. When they play that way their defense is neutered. When they play grind ball on both ends they've proven they can go toe to toe with anyone in the league.

If you're going to spout off and explain my own team to me, actually know your stuff first.


----------



## Jamel Irief

Whoever coined the term "stretch 4" needs to be punched in the face.


----------



## Knick Killer

Can't say I know much about CJ Watsons game. Good pickup for Indy?


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## King Joseus

Knick Killer said:


> Can't say I know much about CJ Watsons game. Good pickup for Indy?
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Watson is solid. Definitely an upgrade off the bench.


----------



## Wade County

Kings should not match that Tyreke deal. They already have Thornton and now McLemore too. Tyrekes game has been receding more than Lebrons hairline.


----------



## Diable

The offer that NO made to Tyreke Evans seems bizarre to me unless there is something I am not grasping. I really don't believe the market for him is 4/44 and it certainly does not seem as though they would not be better served to see if they could snag Iggy instead.


----------



## Hibachi!

I too wonder what the Pelicans are really thinking. Something seems off that's for sure. With Jrue, Gordon, Vasquez, and Austin Rivers what are they offering up that kind of cash to Evans for? Unfortunate for the Kings, as they've essentially just inflated his value.


----------



## FSH

R-Star said:


> They would be a great team? They're already a legit top contender.
> 
> And no, anyone who actually watches the team and didn't just base their opinion on the east finals knows that Frank Vogel runs a grind it out system on both ends. They play slow and methodically.
> 
> Speaking of the east finals, the games the Pacers were blown out were the games Indiana tried to play up tempo offense against Miami. When they play that way their defense is neutered. When they play grind ball on both ends they've proven they can go toe to toe with anyone in the league.
> 
> If you're going to spout off and explain my own team to me, actually know your stuff first.


You keep telling yourself this when Paul George growth is stunted by a PG that cant get him the ball and who rather take the shot himself. Paul George would be a 23-25ppg scorer if he had a real guy to set up plays for him

Fans with blinders are fun. Cant see the fault in their own team because they think making it to the Eastern Conference finales makes them a legit contender. Tell that to all of them Turnovers that where committed in the game the Pacers lost to the Heat


----------



## RollWithEm

Hibachi! said:


> I too wonder what the Pelicans are really thinking. Something seems off that's for sure. With Jrue, Gordon, Vasquez, and Austin Rivers what are they offering up that kind of cash to Evans for? Unfortunate for the Kings, as they've essentially just inflated his value.


The only logical explanation is that they think Tyreke is a legit starting SF. Nothing else makes any sense at all.


----------



## RollWithEm

Adrian Wojnarowski said:


> To clear salary for Tyreke Evans or sign-and-trade w/ Kings, Pelicans expected to try and unload Robin Lopez, league source tells Y!


Twitter @WojYahooNBA

I just don't get why this is happening. The Pelicans are one of the most logical landing spots for Josh Smith, but instead Demps is chasing Tyreke? I'm lost on this one.


----------



## Diable

It shouldn't be that tough to give Robin Lopez away. He's not very good, but his deal isn't that bad and lots of teams need rotation big men. Of course I'd much rather pay Lopez five million than pay Tyreke 11 million. I don't think Davis is big enough to play full time at center right now.


----------



## Hibachi!

RollWithEm said:


> The only logical explanation is that they think Tyreke is a legit starting SF. Nothing else makes any sense at all.


Even crazier is Tyreke's agent said he wouldn't play the 3 TODAY. And yet they're throwing that kind of money at him? It's crazy.


----------



## Floods

ATLien said:


> So don't try to work, sit on your ass, and hope for a lottery ticket. Sounds like the welfare approach.


You tell em, Mitt.



Hibachi! said:


> Unfortunate for the Kings, as they've essentially just inflated his value.


I'm struggling to think of a scenario where Evans leaving would be unfortunate for the Kings.


----------



## Jamel Irief

RollWithEm said:


> Twitter @WojYahooNBA
> 
> I just don't get why this is happening. The Pelicans are one of the most logical landing spots for Josh Smith, but instead Demps is chasing Tyreke? I'm lost on this one.


Sign and trade Eric Gordon for Big Al Jefferson!


----------



## Hibachi!

Floods said:


> You tell em, Mitt.
> 
> 
> I'm struggling to think of a scenario where Evans leaving would be unfortunate for the Kings.


Reke still has a lot of talent, and he works hard. He's struggled a bit recently, but he's been playing way out of his position and in terribly flawed systems. I want the Kings to give him a chance to flourish.


----------



## Jamel Irief

I want to go on the record as saying I have all the faith in the world in Tyreke Evans. He reminds me of Ginobilli with less range. His body control around the rim is incredible. 

Put him on a team with a stable backcourt and coach and he'll earn that money.


----------



## zanshadow

Hibachi! said:


> Reke still has a lot of talent, and he works hard. He's struggled a bit recently, but he's been playing way out of his position and in terribly flawed systems. I want the Kings to give him a chance to flourish.


You probably could say this for Isaiah Thomas too. Part of reason why I really hated Keith Smart coaching the team last season.

He was playing a wash Aaron Brooks entirely over Isaiah who was arguably the best player for latter half of previous season. That goes to show Smart's mentality on developing young talent. But, to be fair, they probably wanted to tank for a pick because team was on sale.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Jamel Irief said:


> I want to go on the record as saying I have all the faith in the world in Tyreke Evans. He reminds me of Ginobilli with less range. His body control around the rim is incredible.
> 
> Put him on a team with a stable backcourt and coach and he'll earn that money.


I wouldn't mind him in Boston running with Avery Bradley. Bradley can't initiate an offense but he can defend the 1, hit wide open shots, and in general play solid offense off the ball. And Boston desperately needs a primary scorer.


----------



## R-Star

FSH said:


> You keep telling yourself this when Paul George growth is stunted by a PG that cant get him the ball and who rather take the shot himself. Paul George would be a 23-25ppg scorer if he had a real guy to set up plays for him
> 
> Fans with blinders are fun. Cant see the fault in their own team because they think making it to the Eastern Conference finales makes them a legit contender. Tell that to all of them Turnovers that where committed in the game the Pacers lost to the Heat


George Hill stealing shots from PG? Wow. Never watched a Pacer game this year at all, have you?

George has the ball in his hands far more than George Hill. I mean it's just utterly laughable how ignorant to the Pacers you are, yet you're trying to come off like a condescending pro. It's good for a laugh.


----------



## NOFX22

While the Brooklyn Nets remain interested in re-signing Andray Blatche, the unrestricted free agent has also received interest from the Golden State Warriors and Los Angeles Clippers.

Blatche signed with the Nets last offseason and was one of the NBA's leaders in PER.


----------



## Basel

NOFX22 said:


> While the Brooklyn Nets remain interested in re-signing Andray Blatche, the unrestricted free agent has also received interest from the Golden State Warriors and Los Angeles Clippers.
> 
> Blatche signed with the Nets last offseason and was one of the NBA's leaders in PER.


Blatche has agreed to return to the Nets already.


----------



## BobStackhouse42

Reggie, Blatche, Teletovic, and Korver. Interesting start to a bench.


----------



## NOFX22

Argh Paul Milsap needs to come the clippers


----------



## rocketeer

RollWithEm said:


> The only logical explanation is that they think Tyreke is a legit starting SF. Nothing else makes any sense at all.


or rivers sucks and they are trying to dump gordon. a backcourt trio of jrue, tyreke, and vasquez would be pretty solid, right?


----------



## Diable

I have no doubt that the Pelicans would like to move Gordon, but I am not sure it is going to be a practical idea. The dude has a pretty bad trifecta going between his attitude, his contract and his inability to stay healthy. If he could stay healthy and stop being a prima donna the contract would be fine, but any GM that gives up much of real value for him will be betting his own ass on the move.


----------



## FSH

Blatche committing to resigns with the Nets is huge


----------



## zanshadow

FSH said:


> Blatche committing to resigns with the Nets is huge


Indeed. It was such a bargain too. Consider your wallet never safe with such deals.


----------



## NOFX22

The Los Angeles Clippers will meet with Carl Landry on Tuesday night.

Landry opted out of his contract after another strong season, this time with the Golden State Warriors.

Landry was a favorite of Chris Paul during their time together with the New Orleans Hornets.


----------



## RollWithEm

Mark Heisler said:


> My source projects 60% Houston, 40% Lakers, no one else really in it…. Detailed breakdown of teams, chances, plans coming up on LakersNation


Twitter @MarkHeisler


----------



## ZhugeLiang

It'd be interesting to see the Lakers ****ed for once.


----------



## e-monk

ZhugeLiang said:


> It'd be interesting to see the Lakers ****ed for once.


CP3


----------



## Bogg

e-monk said:


> CP3


Oh yea? They got ****ed when Hornets ownership rejected an awful deal?


----------



## Hibachi!

I wonder if at this point the Lakers should even want him back to be honest. They're such a big market they can attract a number of stars who legitimately want to be there.


----------



## RollWithEm

Ken Berger said:


> Rip Hamilton will soon be a free agent as the Bulls will waive him rather than guarantee his $5 million salary for next season, source says.


Twitter @KBergCBS


----------



## RollWithEm

Andrew Perna said:


> Can confirm, through source, that David West's contract is guaranteed for two years with a player option for '15-'16. #Pacers


Twitter @Andrew_Perna


----------



## RollWithEm

Darren Wolfson said:


> Source close to Budinger if a deal is close w/ the #Twolves: "We're working on it." The Martell Webster 4-years/$22M deal doesn't help.


Twitter @DarrenWolfson


----------



## Hibachi!

Rip looked like garbage after coming back from his injury. No surprise there.


----------



## e-monk

Bogg said:


> Oh yea? They got ****ed when Hornets ownership rejected an awful deal?


is that what happened? it's so long ago - I guess all context can be lost in the depths of time - that's right David Stern, owner of the Hornets - it has such a nice ring to it

anyway how's that Gordon kid working out? and Rivers looks like quite a special player too - and all those other guys? who are where?? at least Stern made sure to work the old 'Ewing maneuver' in their favor for you know, basketball reasons


----------



## Hibachi!

> Mark Heisler ‏@MarkHeisler 22m
> Don't worry if you're confused, #NBA GMs right w/you. Bidding fever sees Kings think about maxing out Iggy after #Pelicans offer Tyreke $44M
> Retweeted by Jason Jones


Word on the street is the Kings are thinking about offering Iggy the MAX?! Are they crazy?!


----------



## Bogg

e-monk said:


> is that what happened? it's so long ago - I guess all context can be lost in the depths of time - that's right David Stern, owner of the Hornets - it has such a nice ring to it
> 
> anyway how's that Gordon kid working out? and Rivers looks like quite a special player too - and all those other guys? who are where?? at least Stern made sure to work the old 'Ewing maneuver' in their favor for you know, basketball reasons


Yea........the New Orleans fans aren't sitting around crying because they have Anthony Davis, Jrue Holiday, and Ryan Anderson instead of the core of last years' Suns. The Lakers and Rockets teamed up and tried to pull off a shitty deal for New Orleans at the expense of a GM trying to save his job, and ownership rejected it. Such is life, you didn't get screwed over, you got stopped from screwing another team over. If you keep saying it was horribly unfair New Orleans didn't take a bunch of highly paid has-beens people might eventually start believing you, though.


----------



## Diable

Actually the new max contract might be a little bit less than Iguodala made last year.


----------



## Hibachi!

Diable said:


> Actually the new max contract might be a little bit less than Iguodala made last year.


Still way more than Iggy is worth. This could cripple the franchise for time to come.


----------



## Bogg

Hibachi! said:


> Still way more than Iggy is worth. This could cripple the franchise for time to come.


The Kings are already crippled and have been for some time.


----------



## Hibachi!

Bogg said:


> The Kings are already crippled and have been for some time.


Yeah with bad contracts. Salmons has an awful contract. Jimmer was a terrible pick over Kemba. Thornton doesn't fit. But that doesn't mean you go out and offer a 30 year old that relies so much on athleticism who has never carried his team anywhere a MAX contract. It certainly doesn't mean you cripple your franchise when you are trying to turn over a new leaf with new ownership and a new coach. 

Even at the same price I'd still take Tyreke over Iggy. Yet alone max money for Iggy. Dude could be collecting $15 million in a couple of years and not even be an all-star.


----------



## RollWithEm

Of all the million players rumored to be going back to the Clippers in an Eric Bledsoe swap, I have to say I'd target Demar DeRozan. He's got all of his best basketball ahead of him.


----------



## Jamel Irief

Bogg said:


> Oh yea? They got ****ed when Hornets ownership rejected an awful deal?


Regardless of how you felt about the deal the Lakers were ****ed in the sense that they got the ok from what they felt were the decision makers only to be vetoed. The Lakers made a trade with a willing party that was within the rules, only to deal with a literally one time unprecedented ownership scenerio.

BTW you claiming the trade they did make was great because they sucked for two years is disengenous. They didn't make that trade antcipating Eric Gordon only playing 30 games in two years and Davis missing half of his rookie season. They could of sucked with the Lakers package and been under no salary obligations to any of those players right now.


----------



## Bogg

Hibachi! said:


> Yeah with bad contracts. Salmons has an awful contract. Jimmer was a terrible pick over Kemba. Thornton doesn't fit. But that doesn't mean you go out and offer a 30 year old that relies so much on athleticism who has never carried his team anywhere a MAX contract. It certainly doesn't mean you cripple your franchise when you are trying to turn over a new leaf with new ownership and a new coach.
> 
> Even at the same price I'd still take Tyreke over Iggy. Yet alone max money for Iggy. Dude could be collecting $15 million in a couple of years and not even be an all-star.


Oh, yea, I mean, that's way too much for the wrong guy, I'm not debating that. I'm just saying it's more of the same, although at least this player can spread the shots around some. For what it's worth, Jimmer was taken one pick after Kemba, but with Thompson, Leonard, Vucevic, and Shumpert (plus the Morrises, if you want to include them) all taken shortly/immediately after.


----------



## e-monk

Bogg said:


> Yea........the New Orleans fans aren't sitting around crying because they have Anthony Davis, Jrue Holiday, and Ryan Anderson instead of the core of last years' Suns. The Lakers and Rockets teamed up and tried to pull off a shitty deal for New Orleans at the expense of a GM trying to save his job, and ownership rejected it. Such is life, you didn't get screwed over, you got stopped from screwing another team over. If you keep saying it was horribly unfair New Orleans didn't take a bunch of highly paid has-beens people might eventually start believing you, though.


basketball reasons = Kaman's expiring contract, the pick that became Rivers and a discontented Gordon- that is all, let's not pretend otherwise

some hypocrites bitch about the Gasol trade but the Griz got more and they got better from it faster

ownership should never have been in the hands of Stern/NBA in the first place but failing franchises are part of Stern's legacy

the trade would have stood if not for the bitching of a handful of cheap, 'bad for the game' owners like MJ and Gilbert

Jrue came via a WTF draft day trade because New Orleans continued to suck and were once again in the lottery despite that "basketball reasons" trade

in any event Jrue may do about as well as Collison did for them a few years back

Ryan Anderson is junk and was not part of the deal discussed and his subsequent acquisition could have just as easily been accomplished if the original trade had gone thru

Anthony Davis was a gift seeing as there were 3 other teams in better position to land that ping pong ball 

short of lucking out on Davis the Hornets remain a crap-fest

if this is what Stern envisioned for this team 3 years out maybe someone should have stepped in and stopped him from making ownership decisions for the team

all of that aside however between the stated ambitions of the new CBA and this CP3 debacle anyone who thinks that the Lakers always get their way is clearly mistaken


----------



## Jamel Irief

RollWithEm said:


> Of all the million players rumored to be going back to the Clippers in an Eric Bledsoe swap, I have to say I'd target Demar DeRozan. He's got all of his best basketball ahead of him.


I'd take Affallo. He has zero ego and 100% work ethic and is a better shooter and defender. Plus his contract is already locked in.


----------



## RollWithEm

Jamel Irief said:


> I'd take Affallo. He has zero ego and 100% work ethic and is a better shooter and defender. Plus his contract is already locked in.


Afflalo is barely a better shooter and barely a better defender, and DeRozan's contract is also locked in for even longer than Afflalo's.


----------



## Bogg

Jamel Irief said:


> BTW you claiming the trade they did make was great because they sucked for two years is disengenous. They didn't make that trade antcipating Eric Gordon only playing 30 games in two years and Davis missing half of his rookie season. They could of sucked with the Lakers package and been under no salary obligations to any of those players right now.


I'm not claiming the trade they made was _great_. What I'm claiming is that bottoming out with picks and cap space was/is way better than winning 35 games each of the last two years and having little in the way of assets going forward. 

I don't understand the idea that "well, they could have been directionless and unwatchable the last two seasons, but most of those players would have left this summer, so it would have still been a good return for an all-star".


----------



## Hibachi!

Bogg said:


> For what it's worth, Jimmer was taken one pick after Kemba, but with Thompson, Leonard, Vucevic, and Shumpert (plus the Morrises, if you want to include them) all taken shortly/immediately after.


Oh no my friend. It's even worse than that. See, the Kings traded Beno Udrih and the 7th pick for JOHN SALMONS (and his horrendous contract) and the 10th pick. Kemba went 9th. The Kings could have easily had him, and would be much better with him.


----------



## RollWithEm

> Free-agent forward Chase Budinger has reached agreement on a three-year, $16 million contract to return to the Minnesota Timberwolves, league sources told Yahoo! Sports. Budinger, a 6-foot-7 forward, returns to a strong core with the Wolves that includes Kevin Love and Ricky Rubio. The third year of the deal will be a player option, a source said.


Yahoo! Sports


----------



## doctordrizzay

Bogg said:


> Oh yea? They got ****ed when Hornets ownership rejected an awful deal?


Exactly


----------



## RollWithEm

> O.J. Mayo might help the Mavs bring back one of Dirk Nowitzki’s championship buddies. With the Timberwolves among the teams recruiting Mayo, the Mavs have had discussions with Minnesota about a sign-and-trade that would net 2011 Finals hero J.J. Barea.


ESPN.com


----------



## Bogg

e-monk said:


> basketball reasons = Kaman's expiring contract, the pick that became Rivers and a discontented Gordon- that is all, let's not pretend otherwise


.......plus their own batch of lottery balls that became Davis, plus the cap space to sign Anderson and some other guys. When the plan is obviously "bottom out with picks/space", you can't discount the picks/space.



e-monk said:


> some hypocrites bitch about the Gasol trade but the Griz got more and they got better from it faster
> 
> ownership should never have been in the hands of Stern/NBA in the first place but failing franchises are part of Stern's legacy
> 
> the trade would have stood if not for the bitching of a handful of cheap, 'bad for the game' owners like MJ and Gilbert


_In Gilbert's own letter that you've posted here_ he outlines what a better deal Memphis got for Gasol because they got multiple firsts and a good prospect in his brother, neither of which were included in the Lakers' offer. Three unhappy veterans on big deals and an okay starter is an awful return for a rebuilding team.



e-monk said:


> Jrue came via a WTF draft day trade because New Orleans continued to suck and were once again in the lottery despite that "basketball reasons" trade


Again - the plan was to be in the lottery in order to rebuild. They got what might be a franchise power forward and a point guard who made the all-star team last year. It's way better than a point forward who missed the season due to sadness and a power forward who wound up amnestied and starting for the worst team in the West. 




e-monk said:


> Ryan Anderson is junk and was not part of the deal discussed and *his subsequent acquisition could have just as easily been accomplished if the original trade had gone thru*


Not at all, New Orleans would have been capped out last summer paying Okafor, Scola, Martin, Odom, and Dragic. They would have been Bucks South, if they were lucky. 




e-monk said:


> all of that aside however between the stated ambitions of the new CBA and this CP3 debacle anyone who thinks that the Lakers always get their way is clearly mistaken


Easy with the persecution complex, man. The rest of the league didn't want to foot a huge bill to facilitate an awful trade that would have made it more difficult to sell the team they owned. The fact that you're still freaking out about a time the Lakers _didn't_ get to screw over someone else should tell you something.


----------



## RollWithEm

> As Sporting News first reported late Sunday night, Lakers forward Earl Clark is in Cleveland today and will meet with the Cavaliers this afternoon. Clark is a free agent who has been on the Cavs’ radar since the end of the season. Cleveland would be an ideal situation for Clark—one source called the team’s interest, “very mutual.”


Sporting News


----------



## Basel

Man, I wanted Clark to stay with the Lakers. I hope he doesn't sign with Cleveland.


----------



## kbdullah

RollWithEm said:


> Originally Posted by Mark Heisler
> My source projects 60% Houston, 40% Lakers, no one else really in it…. Detailed breakdown of teams, chances, plans coming up on LakersNation
> 
> Twitter @MarkHeisler


How's that? The Mavericks didn't even end their meeting until a half hour ago and Lakers meeting only just beginning.


----------



## Hibachi!

Clark is going to get so overpaid.


----------



## Hibachi!

RollWithEm said:


> Wolves sign Buddinger: Yahoo! Sports


Nvm. Solid signing by the Wolves.


----------



## Hibachi!

> Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 1m
> Eric Bledsoe and Caron Butler will go to the Suns, Jared Dudley and JJ Redick to the Clippers and 2 2nd-round picks to Bucks, sources tell Y


Interesting trade for the Clippers. They do get two knock-down shooters, though.


----------



## Drizzy

Wow, Hibachi beat me. I thought I had the jump on that last one. Ha.


----------



## Basel

You both were late. Thread already created about the trade.


----------



## Jamel Irief

Bogg said:


> I'm not claiming the trade they made was _great_. What I'm claiming is that bottoming out with picks and cap space was/is way better than winning 35 games each of the last two years and having little in the way of assets going forward.
> 
> I don't understand the idea that "well, they could have been directionless and unwatchable the last two seasons, but most of those players would have left this summer, so it would have still been a good return for an all-star".


Never once said it was a good return. I said it was an equally bad return than what they got. 

So the hornets traded an all-star and were directionless and unwatchable for two years and now have talent because they sucked. This is far better than the lakers deal, that would of made them directionless and unwatchable for two seasons?

You do realize your only argument is some lottery luck helped by injury problems right?


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Drizzy

Basel said:


> You both were late. Thread already created about the trade.


I'm just going to stop trying to post things like that first...some of you guys are too damn fast....


----------



## Bogg

Jamel Irief said:


> You do realize your only argument is some lottery luck helped by injury problems right?


No, my argument is that cap space coupled with some mix of picks and prospects is a far better return for a rebuilding team than middling veterans. _Your_ argument is that because their rebuild has been a mixed bag so far, they shouldn't have rebuilt in the first place.


----------



## Jamel Irief

Bogg said:


> No, my argument is that cap space coupled with some mix of picks and prospects is a far better return for a rebuilding team than middling veterans. _Your_ argument is that because their rebuild has been a mixed bag so far, they shouldn't have rebuilt in the first place.


Both trades gave them cap space. 

Is Aminu a prospect and Dragic a middling vet? Has Eric Gordon been useful in anyway?

My argument was that if sucking for two years and having cap space in 2013 was the goal both trades could of accomplished that. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Basel

> Sam Amick ‏@sam_amick 4m
> 
> The Minnesota Timberwolves have offered Kevin Martin a 4-year deal that could be worth as much as $30 million with incentives. Story to come


...


----------



## R-Star

Anyone talking about the CP3 to Lakers nix shut the **** up.

We've gone over this thousands of times. If you think the deals were at all similar in value, you're delusional.


----------



## doctordrizzay

EDIT ALERT: FAKE TWEET

ramonashelburne ramonashelburne
Nash confirms meeting went well, but sources say Kobe and Dwight had their differences


----------



## Basel

Stop making shit up, Drizzay.


----------



## Basel

Drizzay, first and last warning: editing over my edits will result in ban. Don't do it again. Thanks.



> Mike Trudell ‏@LakersReporter 1m
> 
> Kupchak statement: "Jim Buss, Mike D’Antoni, Kobe Bryant, Steve Nash, Tim Harris and I, along with representatives from (TWC and AEG)...





> Mike Trudell ‏@LakersReporter 1m
> 
> Kupchat cont'd: "...met this afternoon for approximately two hours with Dwight Howard and his representatives Dan Fegan and Happy Walters."





> Mike Trudell ‏@LakersReporter 53s
> 
> Kupchak 3: "We told (Howard) how important he is to the Lakers team, franchise, fans and community, and why we feel this is the best place..





> Kupchak 4: "… for him to continue his career. We are hopeful that Dwight decides to remain a Laker."


...


----------



## e-monk

R-Star said:


> Anyone talking about the CP3 to Lakers nix shut the **** up.
> 
> We've gone over this thousands of times. If you think the deals were at all similar in value, you're delusional.


you are correct while being 180 degrees wrong


----------



## XxIrvingxX

Basel said:


> Stop making shit up, Drizzay.


Why stop now?


----------



## R-Star

e-monk said:


> you are correct while being 180 degrees wrong


Yea. The Lakers deal was a better option for them...


You're ****ing delusional.


----------



## Hibachi!

> Sam Amick ‏@sam_amick 4m
> 
> The Minnesota Timberwolves have offered Kevin Martin a 4-year deal that could be worth as much as $30 million with incentives. Story to come


Man I would think Martin could pull down a little bit more than that. He's only worth $2 million more a year than Martell Webster?


----------



## Basel

> Dave McMenamin ‏@mcten 32s
> 
> "Thought the Lakers were good," said a source close to Howard familiar with the meeting. Team Dwight staying tight lipped.


...


----------



## e-monk

R-Star said:


> Yea. The Lakers deal was a better option for them...
> 
> 
> You're ****ing delusional.


Aminu, Kaman, the pick that became Rivers, Gordon - just a reminder as it seems you may have forgotten

but you're probably right, there's no way the Hornets could have turned a piece of the LAL/Houston package along with a pick and prospect into a player like James Harden (for instance) , right?


----------



## Jace

That Laker meeting sounds crowded.


----------



## doctordrizzay

Enough with the off topic bullshit. Take your lame ass agenda somewhere else

This thread is not about the League hating the Lakers or Drizzay Hating Kobe either. STOP DERAILING


----------



## Jace

DD go watch some 2013 Finals highlight videos and release the hate.


----------



## Jace

> @*basketballtalk*  19s Earl Clark schedules second free agent meeting with Cavaliers http://dlvr.it/3btw2b


..


----------



## R-Star

e-monk said:


> Aminu, Kaman, the pick that became Rivers, Gordon - just a reminder as it seems you may have forgotten
> 
> but you're probably right, there's no way the Hornets could have turned a piece of the LAL/Houston package along with a pick and prospect into a player like James Harden (for instance) , right?


A hypothetical where the Lakers deal was basically Paul for Harden.



.....Hahahahaha


----------



## doctordrizzay

Jace said:


> DD go watch some 2013 Finals highlight videos and release the hate.


Lol I'm not the one hating. Got butthurt over here mad that I don't bow to his beloved Lakers...

He's mad I don't like them. Even closing threads. The butthurt is strong here. Can't have an opinion about the Lakers unless you love them.


----------



## R-Star

doctordrizzay said:


> Lol I'm not the one hating. Got butthurt over here mad that I don't bow to his beloved Lakers...
> 
> He's mad I don't like them. Even closing threads. The butthurt is strong here. Can't have an opinion about the Lakers unless you love them.


Talk about the topic in the thread, or you're banned.

Do you understand? Because if you reply with any sort of bullshit response that's it, you're gone.


----------



## Basel

doctordrizzay said:


> Lol I'm not the one hating. Got butthurt over here mad that I don't bow to his beloved Lakers...
> 
> He's mad I don't like them. Even closing threads. The butthurt is strong here. Can't have an opinion about the Lakers unless you love them.


I didn't edit your last post (I don't edit anything in red). So I don't know what was said, nor do I care. But don't post bullshit rumors. That's not what this thread is for. Stay on topic, don't edit over a mod or admin's edits, and we'll be fine.


----------



## doctordrizzay

R-Star said:


> Talk about the topic in the thread, or you're banned.
> 
> Do you understand? Because if you reply with any sort of bullshit response that's it, you're gone.


You're the last person I'd listen to. So shhhhh.

Back on topic...Griz keep Allen for cheap. nice


----------



## R-Star

doctordrizzay said:


> You're the last person I'd listen to. So shhhhh.
> 
> Back on topic...Griz keep Allen for cheap. nice


Look at that. You did what you were told.

Good job.


----------



## ATLien

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--kings-make--56-million-offer-to-andre-iguodala-033449149.html

Woj says Kings are front runners for Iguodala (4 years, $56 million) and so won't match Evans offer sheet.


----------



## R-Star

doctordrizzay said:


> You're the last person I'd listen to. So shhhhh.
> 
> Back on topic...Griz keep Allen for cheap. nice


Stupid shitty village internet.


----------



## Hibachi!

ATLien said:


> http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--kings-make--56-million-offer-to-andre-iguodala-033449149.html
> 
> Woj says Kings are front runners for Iguodala (4 years, $56 million) and so won't match Evans offer sheet.


Kill me.


----------



## Jace

14 mill a year. Enough to spend the rest of your prime in basketball hell.


----------



## BlakeJesus

At the same time, if you're trying to change your teams identity Iggy is a good guy to bring in. If they can right that ship over there they have some talent on that roster. Especially if you consider the chance that Cousins could be one of the best players in the league if he can find a way to live up to his talent.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

Jace said:


> ..


Out of all the people I want the Cavaliers to be spending their shitload of cap space on, Earl Clark is not one of them.


----------



## Dissonance

@sam_amick:


> The Kings have pulled their offer for free agent Andre Iguodala & will no longer pursue him, I'm told. Story to come


----------



## NOFX22

The Detroit Pistons have offered the expiring contracts of Rodney Stuckey and Charlie Villanueva to the Toronto Raptors in exchange for Rudy Gay.

The Raptors acquired Gay in a January trade made by Bryan Colangelo.

Trading Gay would clear salary cap space for the Raptors for the 2014 offseason.

Masai Ujiri has already begun clearing holdovers by trading Andrea Bargnani to the New York Knicks.


----------



## Basel

Dissonance said:


> @sam_amick:


Interesting. Wonder what happened.


----------



## Basel

> With the team now under new ownership and being run by new general manager and former Denver Nuggets executive Pete D'Alessandro, Iguodala - who was traded to the Nuggets last season after spending his first eight seasons in Philadelphia - became their top target after the New Orleans Pelicans came hard for Kings restricted free agent Tyreke Evans.
> 
> But the Kings wanted an answer from Iguodala, who was still considering returning to Denver while also being pursued by the likes of Detroit and others. When Iguodala wasn't prepared to give the answer quick enough for the Kings' liking, they made the calculated decision to go a different direction. What direction that is however, wasn't immediately clear.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...kings-contract-offer-nba-free-agency/2485297/


----------



## Basel

> Andre Iguodala ‏@andre 2h
> 
> Really?? Ok... MOTIVATION!!!!!!





> Andre Iguodala ‏@andre 2h
> 
> WOW!!!!


...


----------



## Hibachi!

THANK. GOD.


----------



## RollWithEm

Why can't the Kings just keep Tyreke and let the Pelicans have Iggy?


----------



## Basel

> Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 1h
> 
> Why do Nets now believe they no shot at sharpshooter Kyle Korver? Word is Bucks, for one, offering Korver three-year deal worth $20 million


...


----------



## Hibachi!

Basel said:


> ...


Man the Bucks... Just. Wow.


----------



## Basel

> Manu Ginobili ‏@manuginobili 20m
> 
> Thrilled to announce that as I always hoped, I'm gonna stay with the @spurs for two more years. #gospursgo.


...


----------



## Hibachi!

Oh man Ginobili coming back? He looked AWFUL in the post-season. Hope he returns to form.


----------



## FSH

Is 2 expiring contracts really a good deal for Toronto to move Rudy Gay? Its not like they will be able to use that cap space to sign a big FA in 2014 because no one is gonna go to Toronto


----------



## Bubbles

Basel said:


> ...


:nono:


----------



## Hibachi!

Prince said:


> :nono:


Lol man what the hell. They trade for Reddick. Have him for one year. Let him go. And then try to sign a Reddick clone (who arguably plays worse defense) for roughly the same amount? What the hell.


----------



## FSH

> ESPNNBA The NBA on ESPN
> Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, Danny Green and now Manu Ginobili all have contracts that expire following the 2014-15 season.


Guessing Spurs are gonna reload that offseason


----------



## Hibachi!

FSH said:


> Guessing Spurs are gonna reload that offseason


I imagine every single one of them will take a monster paycut. Things will get real interesting. Of course by then all three will be up there in age.


----------



## Basel

> Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 1m
> 
> Milwaukee is nearing a deal to sign free agent guard O.J. Mayo, league sources tell Y Sports.


...


----------



## Dissonance

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 2m


> Milwaukee is nearing a deal to sign free agent guard O.J. Mayo, league sources tell Y Sports.


----------



## Jace

Mayo and Milwaukee...huh.



XxIrvingxX said:


> Out of all the people I want the Cavaliers to be spending their shitload of cap space on, Earl Clark is not one of them.


He's a player you go after if you're a little closer to contending and need to add role players, in my opinion.


----------



## RollWithEm

Marc Stein said:


> Rockets/Mavs clearly still have better shot to steal Dwight from Lakers than Warriors. But Dubs, I'm told, have forced way into conversation


Twitter @ESPNSteinLine

The plot thickens.


----------



## RollWithEm

Dan Woike said:


> Willie Green has had his team option picked up. #Clippers


Twitter @DanWoikeSports

Nice additional veteran depth for Doc to play with.


----------



## RollWithEm

Arash Markazi said:


> Matt Barnes wants to get paid but he'll take a hometown discount to stay in L.A.


Twitter @ArashMarkazi

And then that could be more of the same.


----------



## Hibachi!

Please tell me the Bucks will have Ellis, Jennings, AND Mayo. :lol: Talk about loading up one-dimensional undersized scorers.


----------



## roux

Hibachi! said:


> Please tell me the Bucks will have Ellis, Jennings, AND Mayo. :lol: Talk about loading up one-dimensional undersized scorers.


Ellis wont be back so it wont happen, but they pretty much just remade their backcourt in the same image that didnt work last year..although mayo can actually make a shot outside of 10 feet unlike ellis


----------



## roux

Hibachi! said:


> Lol man what the hell. They trade for Reddick. Have him for one year. Let him go. And then try to sign a Reddick clone (who arguably plays worse defense) for roughly the same amount? What the hell.


Redick isnt even the issue to me, I prefer to lump him into my anger in regards to trading Tobias Harris away.. I am more upset that We let Dunleavy walk for a 2 year 7 million dollar deal and than massively overpay for Korver... DUnleavy is arguably the better overall player and the bulls are getting him at half the price and one less year.. the Bucks have no clue what they are doing


----------



## Dissonance

At least the Bucks can still tank with what they're doing.


----------



## Hibachi!

Dissonance said:


> At least the Bucks can still tank with what they're doing.


Yeah. Wiggins is looking like he's going to be a special player.


----------



## Diable

Clippers pretty much have to give Barnes what it takes. They still have the MLE, but they need another big and a backup point guard.


----------



## roux

Dissonance said:


> At least the Bucks can still tank with what they're doing.


Maybe, A Jennings, Mayo, Korver, Ilyasova, Sanders lineup is bad but in the east that team could still win 35-40 games and be right back drafting in the early teens just like this year


----------



## Dissonance

True. Could be worse too. Plus, Jennings could still force his way out potentially.


----------



## Dissonance

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 2h



> Clippers & Carl Landry, I'm told, in serious contract talks. Hearing Clips optimistic, but question is: Will it cost 'em whole mid-level?'


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

> @WojYahooNBA: Free agent guard J.R. Smith is nearing an agreement to re-sign with the New York Knicks, league sources tell Y! Sports.


...


----------



## Hibachi!

Dissonance said:


> Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 2h


Man the whole MLE for Landry? Dude is not worth that. They need a big man that can REBOUND and play good man-D. Not another guy that's going to get bullied down low.


----------



## Hibachi!

Word on the street is that Tyreke has verbally committed to NO. It seemed like he was waiting for the Kings to make a similar offer, maybe even at a discount. They didn't. If the Kings let him walk I'm going to be furious. Sacramento as a town doesn't attract a whole lot of talent... You can't just let guys walk like that.


----------



## NOFX22

Hibachi! said:


> Man the whole MLE for Landry? Dude is not worth that. They need a big man that can REBOUND and play good man-D. Not another guy that's going to get bullied down low.


What other big man we can get at the mid level than?


----------



## doctordrizzay

JR Smith and Knicks getting closer to a deal.


----------



## Dissonance

Jason Jones ‏@mr_jasonjones 44m



> FTR, Tyreke Evans is put off by lack of an offer, not being top priority, but not to the point he wouldn't play for the Kings.



Sam Amick ‏@sam_amick 26m


> As I mentioned on air, safe to say Pelicans PG Greivis Vasquez - who has same agent as Tyreke Evans - is gettable in possible sign & trade.


----------



## Diable

Landry for the MLE would be pretty good move, but they still need a backup point guard. It's probably better if it is not Billups too


----------



## Jace

Landry would definitely help them, but not what they need.


----------



## Diable

LAC needs DeAndre Jordan to learn how to play defense and score from further away than 3 feet, but that is quite unlikely. Landry is effective in the Pick and roll, which is something the Clippers really lack from the bigs they have now. Griffin would be a devastating player if he could learn to do what Landry can in the P&R


----------



## NOFX22

Kenyon Martin is receiving interest from the New York Knicks, Los Angeles Lakers, Los Angeles Clippers, San Antonio Sours and Brooklyn Nets.

Martin played for the Knicks last season.


----------



## Dissonance

Well, Bucks keeps striking out... Either a blessing or they panic... Stay tuned Bucks fans :laugh:


----------



## doctordrizzay

Tyreke and the Peli's goin for a 4 year 44 mil


----------



## XxIrvingxX

Cmon Cavaliers sign some people damn it!


----------



## Marcus13

Sasha Vujacic is back in LA and has been in touch with the Lakers. Source said he'll be in NBA next season and Lakers are his top choice. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now that's hilariously awesome


----------



## RollWithEm

I just still don't see what the plan is with Tyreke. We know he can't play SF. We know neither him nor EG will be happy coming off the bench. We know Jrue will be starting at PG. That's one position with two guys making a combined $24 mil. Huh?


----------



## Marcus13

RollWithEm said:


> I just still don't see what the plan is with Tyreke. We know he can't play SF. We know neither him nor EG will be happy coming off the bench. We know Jrue will be starting at PG. That's one position with two guys making a combined $24 mil. Huh?


EG doesn't want to be there regardless of if he's coming off the bench or starting. Hopefully NO will do something smart and trade him for a 3/4


----------



## rocketeer

RollWithEm said:


> I just still don't see what the plan is with Tyreke. We know he can't play SF. We know neither him nor EG will be happy coming off the bench. We know Jrue will be starting at PG. That's one position with two guys making a combined $24 mil. Huh?


i think it is pretty clear the plan is to dump gordon.

a straight up trade of the two could even work out pretty well for both teams (assuming it was possible) at least in terms of fit. gordon would be better off as a shooter/scorer playing off of cousins, while tyreke would likely do much better in a situation where he has more free reign to create and score alongside a big like davis.


----------



## doctordrizzay

Something I cooked up


----------



## NOFX22

rocketeer said:


> i think it is pretty clear the plan is to dump gordon.
> 
> a straight up trade of the two could even work out pretty well for both teams (assuming it was possible) at least in terms of fit. gordon would be better off as a shooter/scorer playing off of cousins, while tyreke would likely do much better in a situation where he has more free reign to create and score alongside a big like davis.


Eric Gordon for Danny Granger


----------



## Dissonance

> Atlanta Hawks free-agent forward Josh Smith won’t decide where to sign until after the Fourth of July holiday weekend, at the earliest, a league source told Yahoo! Sports.
> 
> Smith left Los Angeles to return to his hometown of Atlanta on Wednesday after meeting with the Houston Rockets and Detroit Pistons. He isn’t in a rush to decide, the source said.
> 
> The decision of Los Angeles Lakers center Dwight Howard also plays a role in Smith’s future. The Rockets have told Smith that if they don’t land Howard, they will attempt to sign him next, a source said. The Hawks also could pursue a sign-and-trade to get something in return for Smith leaving.
> 
> The Dallas Mavericks met with Howard and have spoken to Philadelphia 76ers free-agent center Andrew Bynum, but they have not met with Smith since the start of free agency, a league source said.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--n...izzlies--pacers--bucks--knicks-234954522.html


----------



## doctordrizzay

Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
Sources close to Howard tell me Kobe's reported pitch in Tuesday's meeting about teaching D12 how to win will be a "complete turnoff" to D12


----------



## roux

doctordrizzay said:


> Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
> Sources close to Howard tell me Kobe's reported pitch in Tuesday's meeting about teaching D12 how to win will be a "complete turnoff" to D12


Lol


----------



## XxIrvingxX

doctordrizzay said:


> Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
> Sources close to Howard tell me Kobe's reported pitch in Tuesday's meeting about teaching D12 how to win will be a "complete turnoff" to D12


Well, that happened.


----------



## Dissonance

XxIrvingxX said:


> Cmon Cavaliers sign some people damn it!


Sean Deveney ‏@SeanDeveney 10m



> Source tells Sporting News that Lakers F Earl Clark has signed a 2 yr deal w the Cavaliers for $9 million


----------



## King Joseus

@ESPNSteinLine



> RT @ramonashelburne: Spurs have reached a three-year deal with with Marco Belinelli


EDIT:



> RT @AminESPN: Still excellent! RT @ramonashelburne: Excuse me, Spurs have reached a two-year deal with Marco Belinelli


----------



## BlakeJesus

Marco is a solid shooter for them to add, and he understands how to defend at least. Should be a solid cog for them.

Earl Clark to the Cavs doesn't make a lot of sense to me. A tweener SF/PF? Didn't they just draft one of those 1st overall?


----------



## Jace

I just hope LeBron sees Cleveland continuing to do weird shit like that. Still can't trust them to put the right pieces around him.


----------



## Hibachi!

doctordrizzay said:


> Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
> Sources close to Howard tell me Kobe's reported pitch in Tuesday's meeting about teaching D12 how to win will be a "complete turnoff" to D12


I'm not doubting the authenticity of this. Think about it. Dwight Howard has complained everywhere he has been. Blamed everyone else for team shortcomings (granted sometimes it was the fault of others). He wants to be out from under Kobe's shadow. Doesn't want the pressure. And their pitch to him is "I need to teach you how to win"? How do you think he's going to respond to that?

That being said. Dollar signs speak volume.


----------



## Jace

Kinda why I see him preferring to be with the younger kids that remind him of his carefree days in Houston or GS.


----------



## Dissonance

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 2m



> Story w/@ramonashelburne, via ESPN sources, has Lakers conceding for first time sign-and-trades must be considered if Dwight indeed bolts


----------



## doctordrizzay

Lakers are bracing for the worst now. 

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/...akers-bracing-worst-dwight-howard-sources-say


----------



## XxIrvingxX

Dissonance said:


> Sean Deveney ‏@SeanDeveney 10m


I am going mentally insane. INSANE I TELL YOU!!!


----------



## Dissonance

@sam_amick:


> Regarding Iguodala situation, he wants to play for Warriors & already had deep talks to go there. Need space or S&T though



Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 33m



> Golden State has Philadelphia, Cleveland and Utah involved in talks on complicated deals for salary dumps, league sources tell Y! Sports.



Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 31m


> Warriors have been trying to get contracts off for a long time -- do covet Andre Iguodala -- and activity may still be unrelated to Howard.


----------



## Dissonance

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 15s



> Dallas Mavericks have been officially notified they are out of Dwight Howard Sweepstakes, sources tell ESPN


----------



## RollWithEm

I just heard on ESPN Radio that the Mavs agreed to terms with Paul Millsap. I can't find a link, though.


----------



## FSH

RollWithEm said:


> I just heard on ESPN Radio that the Mavs agreed to terms with Paul Millsap. I can't find a link, though.


solid move by them. but they should have waited to spend that cash they got till next season


----------



## RollWithEm

FSH said:


> solid move by them. but they should have waited to said that cash they got till next season


This isn't being reported anywhere on Twitter, yet. Sounds off.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

> @sam_amick: Dwight Howard has chosen to sign with the Houston Rockets, @USATODAYSports has learned. Story to come. - http://t.co/eNYYg63uJo


Welp


----------



## FSH

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Welp


Ill believe it when i see him announce it.


----------



## RollWithEm

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Welp


That is really, really bad for the Lakers front office. I think this story will reflect very poorly on them longterm.


----------



## Diable

The Howard trade worked out for the Lakers simply because they didn't end up getting stuck with Bynum. Of course Orlando won that trade by ending up without Howard and Bynum


----------



## Hyperion

Diable said:


> The Howard trade worked out for the Lakers simply because they didn't end up getting stuck with Bynum. Of course Orlando won that trade by ending up without Howard and Bynum


Isn't this the trade scenario results no one expected? The Magic won this trade because the two big names just threw a stinker of a season on their new teams. Howard just left them with nothing (probably a S&T but let's hope not). 

Kobe is looking pretty amnestiable right about now....


----------



## Floods

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 1m
Indiana is finalizing agreement on a two-year deal with Knicks free agent Chris Copeland, league sources tell Y!


----------



## Floods

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 55s
Houston has traded Royce White to Philadelphia, league sources tell Y! Sports.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

If Houston can somehow get Josh Smith traded to Houston, the Rockets will be an incredibly fun team to watch.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

Floods said:


> Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 55s
> Houston has traded Royce White to Philadelphia, league sources tell Y! Sports.


Did they get anything in return?


----------



## Basel

Floods said:


> Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 1m
> Indiana is finalizing agreement on a two-year deal with Knicks free agent Chris Copeland, league sources tell Y!


I like this for Indiana. Wonder if the Knicks will match whatever the deal is.


----------



## Jace

Smith in Houston would certainly be "fun" to watch, but it may not all be the kind of "fun" they take part in enjoying.


----------



## Jace

Like the Copeland signing for Indiana, but is he making more than Dunleavy?


----------



## XxIrvingxX

Jace said:


> Smith in Houston would certainly be "fun" to watch, but it may not all be the kind of "fun" they take part in enjoying.


And that sounds like it's not my problem


----------



## King Joseus

@ESPNSteinLine



> Mavs are closing in on a deal with Spanish point guard Jose Calderon, ESPN has learned


Maybe Dwight changes his mind... :clown:


----------



## Jace

CUBAN YOU GENIUS

Dwight to Dallas. :yes:



> @*SpearsNBAYahoo*  6m Source says Bucks guard Monta Ellis is getting "major interest" from Nuggets, but more teams have also expressed interest in recent hours.


Interesting.


----------



## FSH

> Chris Vivlamore ‏@ajchawks 3m
> 
> Hawks have agreed to deal with Paul Milsap. #ATLHawks


..


----------



## Basel

So what other free agents are still out there?


----------



## FSH

Basel said:


> So what other free agents are still out there?


J Smoove
AK47
Monta Ellis
Pekovic
Bynum

Probably the top 5. Then

Delfino
Kaman
Hickson
Brewer
Mo Williams?
Jarrett Jack?


----------



## XxIrvingxX

FSH said:


> J Smoove
> AK47
> Monta Ellis
> Pekovic
> Bynum
> 
> *Probably the top 5.* Then
> 
> Delfino
> Kaman
> Hickson
> Brewer
> Mo Williams?
> Jarrett Jack?


...in no particular order though right?


----------



## R-Star

With Ak47 at 2 I would sure hope so.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

Anyone got any bets on where Andrew Bynum is going to end up? I honestly didn't want him to before, but now I actually want Bynum in Cleveland. If he can stay healthy then I'm loving Cleveland's chances of not only becoming a damn good team that could make a run in the playoffs, but of also acquiring Lebron if he does in fact leave Miami (which I doubt will happen, but it doesn't hurt to gain some assets).


----------



## Dissonance

I can see Dallas taking a shot at him just because they need to do _something_ and Cuban may want to gamble on the potential reward if healthy.


----------



## Dissonance

R-Star said:


> With Ak47 at 2 I would sure hope so.


And Monta ahead of Pek.


----------



## Smath

Israeli website is saying Omri Casspi have signed a 2 year deal with the Houston Rockets!!! does the Rockets have a backup SF to Parsons ?


----------



## hobojoe

Smath said:


> Israeli website is saying Omri Casspi have signed a 2 year deal with the Houston Rockets!!! does the Rockets have a backup SF to Parsons ?


Casspi can fill the Delfino role.


----------



## Dissonance

Woj confirming it.

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 48m



> Free agent Omri Casspi has reached agreement on a two-year deal with the Houston Rockets, league source tells Y! Sports.


----------



## omer51

Now Casppi just need to learn how to drible the freaking ball.


----------



## Pablo5

omer51 said:


> Now Casppi just need to learn how to drible the freaking ball.


Does the Rocket have enough for a Hickson signing? He would fit in perfect for the Rockets


----------



## XxIrvingxX

Thank god, freaking hated seeing Casppi in a Cavaliers uniform.


----------



## Hibachi!

Kings sign Landry to 4yr $26 million. After letting Tyreke go. **** you Stern. **** you Ranadive. ****ing bullshit. Close to being done with these Kings.


----------



## Dissonance

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 6m



> Word is Bucks pushing very hard to wrap up deal to get Georgian center Zaza Pachulia out of Atlanta, Georgia. Hearing $5M range per year


----------



## BobStackhouse42

For zaza?


----------



## BlakeJesus

Would be unwise for the Bucks, but I mean...who else would they bring in?


----------



## Dissonance

It's already done. 3-yrs/15m. Posted it in Mayo thread too afterwards cuz wasn't new thread worthy and this was just a rumor.


----------



## BlakeJesus

Fair enough, Zaza could be good for their locker room at least. Hard working 7 footer who's not afraid to do some dirty work, could be good for those young guys. Larry Sanders getting more PF minutes could be good for him and thus good for the team.


----------



## FSH

Good for Zaza he deserves it. He is a hard working big man and there isnt many of them in the NBA


----------



## E.H. Munro

Yeah, I like Zaza for the Bucks. Anything that gets Sanders more minutes at the 4 is a good thing.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Ellis to Atnalta? That's actually a pretty good move with Teague at the 1 and a garbageman like Millsap there.


----------



## hobojoe

Jermaine O'Neal would be a good signing for the Warriors.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Hyperion

E.H. Munro said:


> Ellis to Atnalta?


How did you misspell Atlanta that badly? That is on par with full blown Dixleysa. Wait, are you dyslexic? If so, I apologize.


----------



## hobojoe

Hyperion said:


> How did you misspell Atlanta that badly? That is on par with full blown Dixleysa. Wait, are you dyslexic? If so, I apologize.


It was intentional.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Dissonance

> The Atlanta Hawks are pursuing Monta Ellis in free agency.
> 
> The Hawks have approximately $10 million in cap space to sign Ellis and he is believed to be their top target.
> 
> The future of Jeff Teague is uncertain, while they have also considered signing Andrew Bynum.
> 
> The Hawks also pursued Ellis via trade in February.


Via Marc Stein/ESPN


----------



## NOFX22

Ryan hollins back with clippers


----------



## E.H. Munro

Hyperion said:


> How did you misspell Atlanta that badly? That is on par with full blown Dixleysa. Wait, are you dyslexic? If so, I apologize.


Well, I am dyslexic, but that's not why I always write Atnalta. When the ATL hosted the Olympics ages ago they asked the residents for slogans, one of the top three finishers was "Atlanta, it's Atnalta spelled backwards!"


----------



## Marcus13

Rumor on these nba streets is kaman is headin to the lakers lol


Sent from my iPhone using VS Free


----------



## hobojoe

> News:
> The Hawks are the "most likely" to make a big offer to restricted free agent Nikola Pekovic, according to Jerry Zgoda.


..


----------



## Diable

Minnesota pretty much has to match if it's not absurd. I wonder how much it would take to make the Wolves walk away


----------



## hobojoe

I don't see Pekovic going anywhere.


----------



## Bubbles

Pek and Horford would be an awesome duo.


----------



## roux

Bucks continue their hilarious offseason by bringing back Carlos Delfino for 3/10


----------



## Diable

Delfino looks like he's pretty close to a minimum player to me. I'd have rather give that money to Nate Robinson than him, at least Nate would bring some excitement. Probably bring some heartburn as well.


----------



## BobStackhouse42

Delfino is better than nate.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Prince said:


> Pek and Horford would be an awesome duo.


Yeah, I said this the other day on another board, Pecker/Horford/Millsap would be a sweet PF/C rotation.


----------



## Dissonance

*Sources: Cavs contenders for Bynum*



> Cleveland Cavaliers have joined the Dallas Mavericks as a prime team to watch in the race to sign free-agent center Andrew Bynum.
> 
> Sources close to the process told ESPN.com that the Cavaliers are legitimate contenders to sign Bynum after his lost season in Philadelphia, especially if the former Los Angeles Lakers All-Star is willing to sign a one-year deal.
> 
> Initial indications are that the Cavaliers won't offer more than a one-year deal to Bynum to preserve all of their projected salary-cap space in the summer of 2014 and the expected free-agent pursuit of LeBron James. But Cleveland does still have roughly $15 million in available salary-cap space to use this summer and, sources say, they have legitimate interest in Bynum.
> 
> The Mavericks are also actively pursuing Bynum in the wake of Dwight Howard's decision to sign with the Houston Rockets, sources previously told ESPN.com. The Mavs, though, have launched what sources describe as an "exhaustive" evaluation process regarding Bynum's problematic knees, wanting to be sure that the 25-year-old's health can justify a long-term contract after he failed to log a single second of court time for the 76ers in 2012-13.
> 
> The Atlanta Hawks, as ESPN.com reported Saturday night, are the only other known suitors for Bynum, but sources say that free-agent guard Monta Ellis is their priority ahead of Bynum.


----------



## Dissonance

E.H. Munro said:


> Yeah, I said this the other day on another board, *Pecker*/Horford/Millsap would be a sweet PF/C rotation.


Overseas they called him The Montenegrin Rapist for a reason . Been a fan since Wolves drafted him and hasn't disappointed. Beast. And that front court would be really nice. Wonder how far they'd go and how far MIN would go to keep him.


----------



## ATLien

Not interested in Ellis. Would rather spend that $10 million on another PF/C and boast a deep rotation.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

Dissonance said:


> *Sources: Cavs contenders for Bynum*


Hmm, interesting...


----------



## Dissonance

How much more money does ATL have to spend?


----------



## ATLien

A lot.


----------



## BlakeJesus

hobojoe said:


> ..


I was really hoping we would do that. Horford/Pek would be nasty.


----------



## BlakeJesus

Dissonance said:


> How much more money does ATL have to spend?


----------



## Dissonance

So, they could sign Ellis and still offer Pekovic? Wow.


----------



## Dissonance

Hm. Didn't even know Nuggets were looking at Monta

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 



> Volume rising on rumbles Randy Foye will wind up w/Nuggets. Which would take DEN out of Monta Ellis race & clear way for Hawks to sign Monta


----------



## BlakeJesus

Teague/Ellis/Milsap/Horford/Pek

Is a nice starting lineup, not a championship team or anything, but it's a playoff squad.


----------



## Dissonance

Yeah, makes em at least interesting. Sure you'd take that over what you guys have had.


----------



## Dissonance

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 8m



> Yet there are also fresh rumbles that Sacramento is trying to muscle into the Monta-Stakes and challenge Atlanta's presumed edge for Ellis


----------



## Dissonance

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 2m



> There's more ...
> 
> 
> Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 1m
> 
> Alternative scenario starting to circulate has Hawks & Bucks talking sign-and-trade -- Jennings for Teague -- with Monta winding up in SAC


----------



## BlakeJesus

Nice! I called that in the Hawks FA thread. Jennings is a nice homerun swing to take for the Hawks, if he flames out in a few years he'll still have use as a spark plug bench scorer (and Shroeder his probable would-be replacement would have had time to develop). If he takes a step forward though, it could be a momentum starter for the Hawks.


----------



## Marcus13

What the hell is Milwaukee getting back besides Teague?

Ugh. What a terrible off-season this could turn out to be for them (like it hasn't been bad enough already)


----------



## roux

I like teague more than jennings


----------



## ATLien

I'm fine with Jennings for Teague if it isn't for a long-term contract.


----------



## E.H. Munro

If it's a reasonable signing on both ends and ATL makes a max offer on Pekovic that puts Minnesota in an awkward spot. Because that means they're locked into Pekovic/Love/Rubio if they match on Pekovic.


----------



## ATLien

Dissonance said:


> So, they could sign Ellis and still offer Pekovic? Wow.


They would probably have even more money to spend if Teague just accepts his $4M, 1 year QO. Spend the rest on big men and Corey Brewer.

I'm not convinced Teague isn't better than Jennings or Ellis though.


----------



## Jace

Chris Kaman is taking a one-year deal in LAL.


----------



## kbdullah

Going from Dwight to Kaman defensively is going to be rough for LAL. Kaman has some decent offensive moves though.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

He'll be a solid backup to Pau at the 5.


----------



## ATLien

Dissonance said:


> So, they could sign Ellis and still offer Pekovic? Wow.


Actually, no. Got that wrong. It's either/or.


----------



## RollWithEm

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> He'll be a solid backup to Pau at the 5.


That's pretty much what I thought about the signing as well.


----------



## kbdullah

Who do the Lakers have at the 4, then?

EDIT: nvm, Jordan Hill


----------



## Wilmatic2

Kaman is a good one year rental.


----------



## Jace

Speights to GSW.

Lakers to amnesty MWP.


----------



## Hyperion

kbdullah said:


> Going from Dwight to Kaman defensively is going to be rough for LAL. Kaman has some decent offensive moves though.


Rough how? Dwight was terrible defensively for pretty much the entire season.


----------



## zanshadow

Hyperion said:


> Rough how? Dwight was terrible defensively for pretty much the entire season.


To be fair, they were horrid as a team defensively not just Dwight. The Lakers DRtg was 105.9 when Dwight was on the floor, and 111.0 with Dwight off the floor. Difference of 5.1 points per 100 possessions.


----------



## FSH

Houston got any money left? They really need to add some depth to that team unless they hope rookies + Jones/Motiejunas become solid role players


----------



## NOFX22

Jace said:


> Speights to GSW.
> 
> Lakers to amnesty MWP.


Dammit wanted him as a clipper


----------



## rocketeer

FSH said:


> Houston got any money left? They really need to add some depth to that team unless they hope rookies + Jones/Motiejunas become solid role players


rockets should be fine with depth with their current roster

pg - lin/beverly
sg - harden/garcia
sf - parsons/casspi
pf - asik/jones/donatas
c - howard/greg smith

not that they are done making moves, but seems like a reasonable 2 deep everywhere on the roster.


----------



## hobojoe

rocketeer said:


> rockets should be fine with depth with their current roster
> 
> pg - lin/beverly
> sg - harden/garcia
> sf - parsons/casspi
> pf - asik/jones/donatas
> c - howard/greg smith
> 
> not that they are done making moves, but seems like a reasonable 2 deep everywhere on the roster.


As a fan of the team, what are your thoughts on the Asik debate? Trade him or try to play him alongside Dwight?


----------



## Dissonance

^I was wondering that too.








> The Minnesota Timberwolves have made a formal offer to Nikola Pekovic believed to be worth $12 million or more annually.
> 
> Pekovic is a restricted free agent.
> 
> Pekovic is not believed to have been offered a deal by a rival team and the number of teams with sufficient cap space has decreased to one or two.


Via Jerry Zgoda/Star Tribune


----------



## Dissonance

*Cavs make Andrew Bynum $24 million offer*



> Cleveland Cavaliers are pushing for free-agent center Andrew Bynum to accept a two-year, $24 million-plus, incentive-based contract offer, league sources told Yahoo! Sports on Monday night.
> 
> The Cavaliers met with Bynum in Cleveland on Monday, but could fast lose patience with waiting on the two-time NBA champion center to make a decision on accepting the offer, which includes a team option in the second year of the deal, sources said.
> 
> Bynum, 25, left Cleveland to travel to Atlanta to meet with Hawks officials, and Cleveland has begun to engage free agents Andrei Kirilenko and Elton Brand on possible one-year deals that would preclude the Cavaliers from the ability to sign Bynum, league sources said.
> 
> Cleveland wants a team option on a second contract year to protect it against losing Bynum to 2014 free agency should his damaged knees heal enough to allow him to make a resurgence this season. The incentives of a possible Bynum contract could include minimal hurdles of completing training camp and reaching minutes and games-played plateaus in the regular season, league sources said.
> 
> Bynum's camp has been shopping for one-year, high-money deals that would allow him to hit the market again next year, sources said.


----------



## rocketeer

hobojoe said:


> As a fan of the team, what are your thoughts on the Asik debate? Trade him or try to play him alongside Dwight?


i think they should (and probably are) trying to move him, but obviously they need to be saying otherwise at this point.

i'm not entirely against giving it a shot though. having one on the floor at all times is definitely a good thing and while there will definitely be spacing issues on offense, making it incredibly difficult to get into the paint on the other end probably cancels that out. other than lin, the vast majority of the perimeter minutes should be going to some pretty good shooters, so that should at least help somewhat.


----------



## NOFX22

What other quality big men still remaining?


----------



## Jace

Don't think there's a thread on this and not sure I've seen discussion at all. Calling on the Milwaukee guys to explain the Za Za signing to me. Why so many damn bigs? At least one good one won't play.


----------



## Basel

I'd love to see Bynum playing alongside Kyrie Irving in Cleveland. If his knees hold up, it's a great deal for them. He'll thrive more in Cleveland than he would in Atlanta, in my opinion.


----------



## roux

Jace said:


> Don't think there's a thread on this and not sure I've seen discussion at all. Calling on the Milwaukee guys to explain the Za Za signing to me. Why so many damn bigs? At least one good one won't play.


I can't explain anything our team does, our owner is a batshit crazy ol coot and our gm is a doofus puppet. My only hope with the Zaza signing is it finally means Gooden gets amnestied and Udoh gets traded. Zaza is a quality backup center for Sanders but the 5 million pricetag makes my head hurt. Henson and Ilyasova should share time at the 4 and I hope Ayon never plays if we decide to keep him.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

Basel said:


> I'd love to see Bynum playing alongside Kyrie Irving in Cleveland. If his knees hold up, it's a great deal for them. He'll thrive more in Cleveland than he would in Atlanta, in my opinion.


You just said everything I wanted to say. Apart from GO CAVS of course.

...GO CAVS!


----------



## Jace

roux said:


> I can't explain anything our team does, our owner is a batshit crazy ol coot and our gm is a doofus puppet. My only hope with the Zaza signing is it finally means Gooden gets amnestied and Udoh gets traded. Zaza is a quality backup center for Sanders but the 5 million pricetag makes my head hurt. Henson and Ilyasova should share time at the 4 and I hope Ayon never plays if we decide to keep him.


Jesus, Mary, and Joseph I forgot about Ayon and the Ghost of Gooden. Sanders/Ilyasova/Henson could be such a good big rotation with some Zaza thrown in there. Trade us Udoh for James Jones.

Seriously, Pat needs to get on the phone with their FO and get his fleece on. At least four bigs on that team I'd love to have.


----------



## Jace

Would be so great if the Cavs sign Bynum and the Heat sign Oden and LeBron's future destination is dependent on which of their respective knees show up the best over the course of the season.


----------



## hobojoe

roux said:


> I can't explain anything our team does, our owner is a batshit crazy ol coot and our gm is a doofus puppet. My only hope with the Zaza signing is it finally means Gooden gets amnestied and Udoh gets traded. Zaza is a quality backup center for Sanders but the 5 million pricetag makes my head hurt. Henson and Ilyasova should share time at the 4 and I hope Ayon never plays if we decide to keep him.


Nice three-headed monster of former Magic big men you have up there in Milwaukee. Unfortunately only Zaza is in any way useful. Gooden is...Gooden, and Gustavo Ayon is one of the worst players in the league.


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----------



## Dissonance

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 



> Andrew Bynum, to this point, has not canceled his other recruiting visits (ATL & DAL) scheduled for this week despite Cavs' serious interest
> 
> 
> Sense I get, though, is Cavs only really worried about Dallas here after -- according to @wojyahoonba -- putting two-year deal on table
> 
> 
> As ESPN reported earlier Monday, Bynum went to Cleveland first and proceeds now to face-to-face recruiting meetings with Hawks and Mavs
> 
> 
> Why Cavs willing to gamble on him? Among key factors I've heard: They know how rarely former All-Star centers are on market ... AND gettable


----------



## Bubbles

Bynum to the Cavs would be huge, assuming he's healthy.


----------



## Pablo5

Prince said:


> Bynum to the Cavs would be huge, assuming he's healthy.


Assuming he actually cares about his career. Bynum is misguided and very immature still.


----------



## Bogg

At this point, if you have a ton of cap space and just about nobody left to spend it on, I don't mind making a huge payment for a one-year gamble on Bynum and his knees. Getting a team option for a second year would be great. Committing long-term money to him is just terrifying, though.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

Jace said:


> Would be so great if the Cavs sign Bynum and the Heat sign Oden and LeBron's future destination is dependent on which of their respective knees show up the best over the course of the season.


LOL I actually want this scenario to happen now haha.


----------



## Smath

when he was healthy in the lakers and played well , he played better then D12 imo, so its a good gamble. Kyrie/waiters/#1 pick/Varajo/Bynum can be very interstin!


----------



## Marcus13

I'd love to see Bynum in Cleveland, but it'll be funny when Cuban ends up offering him a three year 45 million dollar deal


----------



## XxIrvingxX

If Bynum does join the Cavaliers, and we see Bynum play at the level he played at during his final season with the Lakers, there's no doubt in my mind that the Cavaliers will become playoff contenders. Mike Brown, despite imo not being an upgrade from Byron Scott, will improve the Cavaliers as a whole defensively and any team will benefit more from becoming better defensively than becoming better offensively, and even then they'll have the players to become a better offensive group.

Smath said the starting line up would have Bynum at C and Varejao at PF, but honestly, I think it would be better if they had Thompson at PF instead. You want to play it safe with Bynum, so your best bet is to have him start but not have him play loaded amounts of minutes every night. Having Varejao, who also has had his injury issues, come off the bench as the sixth man for Bynum and switching in between C and PF imo would be the best idea for the Cavaliers. I know Varejao had an all star type season last year, but that's what makes it a lot better imo. With a starting line up of Irving, Waiters, Bennett (I think they'll start him, not sure though), Thompson, and Bynum, you can start out with having Bynum play about 30 minutes per night, and have Varejao play about 18-23 minutes per night off the bench as your sixth man, and still have players like Alonzo Gee, Jarret Jack, and Cody Zeller come off the bench and produce quality minutes and produce good numbers on a nightly basis. 

Please let this happen. The more I think about it and think about the possibilities, the more excited I get about this. I could even care less if Lebron comes back, just let Bynum join the Cavs and I'll be happy, even if it's a risk.


----------



## Basel

> Chris Broussard ‏@Chris_Broussard 1m
> 
> Sources: Monta Ellis hoping to choose btwn ATL, Sacramento, Charlotte and Dallas within next 36-48 hours


...


----------



## Basel

> Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 5m
> 
> Jermaine O'Neal, I'm told, is bound for the Golden State Warriors.


...


----------



## R-Star

Always wanted JO to finish his career with the Pacers, but there isn't really room for him.


----------



## Bogg

Please not Charlotte, please not Charlotte, please not Charlotte.........


----------



## hobojoe

Basel said:


> ...


Good move, I like it a lot. Very necessary to not be too dependent on Bogut.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Dissonance

Marc J. Spears ‏@SpearsNBAYahoo 1m



> The Bucks have agreed to trade forward Luc Richard Mbah a Moute to the Kings, a source told Yahoo! Sports.


----------



## RollWithEm

Does anyone else think it's funny when teams like the Bucks and Kings switch players?


----------



## FSH

Basel said:


> ...


Interesting. If the Bobcats get him they could have put together a solid starting 5

Biyombo? Zeller?
Jefferson
MKG
Ellis
Kemba


----------



## Bogg

FSH said:


> Interesting. If the Bobcats get him they could have put together a solid starting 5
> 
> Biyombo? Zeller?
> Jefferson
> MKG
> Ellis
> Kemba


I'd rather have Gerald Henderson than Ellis. Especially on that team, but even in a vacuum.


----------



## FSH

Bogg said:


> I'd rather have Gerald Henderson than Ellis. Especially on that team, but even in a vacuum.


I get that but Ellis is a more flashy name then bringing back Gerald Henderson and face it that franchise needs all the help it can get


----------



## Dissonance

Hm. Nothing about Bobcats (can't wait for them to change that goofy name back to Hornets).


David Aldridge ‏@daldridgetnt 10m


> Monta Ellis deciding between Atlanta, Dallas, per source. Also interested in Sacramento but Mbah a Moute deal may take Kings out of mix.


----------



## Bogg

FSH said:


> I get that but Ellis is a more flashy name then bringing back Gerald Henderson and face it that franchise needs all the help it can get


Eh, Kemba does a reasonable version of "Monta if he tried on defense" already. Too much duplication there.


----------



## Diable

The Bobcats need to finally get a ping pong ball that turns into a transcendent player, or at least one that is actually a top tier talent. Montae Ellis doesn't do anything for them. He and Jefferson would stat whore them closer to mediocrity I am sure, but **** that.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

Dissonance said:


> Hm. Nothing about Bobcats (can't wait for them to change that goofy name back to Hornets).
> 
> 
> David Aldridge ‏@daldridgetnt 10m


Man Dallas just seems to be a hot destination point this off season. If Bynum and Ellis turn down Dallas you've gotta be pissed off if you're a Dallas fan.


----------



## kbdullah

Dallas is always getting left at the altar by the A-List FA's. If the Plan B guys start saying no I'll have to find a nearby bridge.


----------



## Jace

> @*SpearsNBAYahoo*  50s Mavs free agent guard Anthony Morrow close to accepting deal with Pelicans, source tells Y! Sports


Fly pelican!


----------



## Basel

Dirk tweeted welcoming Devin Harris back to the Mavs.


----------



## Hyperion

XxIrvingxX said:


> If Bynum does join the Cavaliers, and we see Bynum play at the level he played at during his final season with the Lakers, there's no doubt in my mind that the Cavaliers will become playoff contenders. Mike Brown, despite imo not being an upgrade from Byron Scott, will improve the Cavaliers as a whole defensively and any team will benefit more from becoming better defensively than becoming better offensively, and even then they'll have the players to become a better offensive group.
> 
> Smath said the starting line up would have Bynum at C and Varejao at PF, but honestly, I think it would be better if they had Thompson at PF instead. You want to play it safe with Bynum, so your best bet is to have him start but not have him play loaded amounts of minutes every night. Having Varejao, who also has had his injury issues, come off the bench as the sixth man for Bynum and switching in between C and PF imo would be the best idea for the Cavaliers. I know Varejao had an all star type season last year, but that's what makes it a lot better imo. With a starting line up of Irving, Waiters, Bennett (I think they'll start him, not sure though), Thompson, and Bynum, you can start out with having Bynum play about 30 minutes per night, and have Varejao play about 18-23 minutes per night off the bench as your sixth man, and still have players like Alonzo Gee, Jarret Jack, and Cody Zeller come off the bench and produce quality minutes and produce good numbers on a nightly basis.
> 
> Please let this happen. The more I think about it and think about the possibilities, the more excited I get about this. I could even care less if Lebron comes back, just let Bynum join the Cavs and I'll be happy, even if it's a risk.


That sounds like a whole lotta if's. Bynum has been a promising diamond in LA for 6 years and has never been healthy to live up to it. He's also a knucklehead. He's also 25 and has how many knee surgeries? Yeah, that's not a great player to invest into as your centerpiece. Just look at the Knicks with Amare, and he was a success story for knee surgery!


----------



## hobojoe

Hyperion said:


> That sounds like a whole lotta if's. Bynum has been a promising diamond in LA for 6 years and has never been healthy to live up to it. He's also a knucklehead. He's also 25 and has how many knee surgeries? Yeah, that's not a great player to invest into as your centerpiece. Just look at the Knicks with Amare, and he was a success story for knee surgery!


Not the same thing as Stoudemire. Nobody is giving Bynum a 4 or 5 year deal. Signing him is not going to cripple the Cavs, Mavs or whatever franchise ends up with him. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Diable

Cleveland is not offering to expose itself to any risks. They are offering to give Bynum one year guaranteed and a team option on the second year. If things go really sour they can trade his big ass and his crazy ass hair as an expiring before the Deadline. Doubt they really care much if Dallas wants to guarantee a second year either.


----------



## Diable

http://www.nba.com/2013/news/07/09/warriors-sign-douglas-oneal.ap/

Warriors apparently signed Toney Douglas as well as Jermaine O'Neal


----------



## RollWithEm

Jace said:


> Fly pelican!


So the Pelicans are just trying to accumulate as many SGs as they possibly can now?


----------



## R-Star

RollWithEm said:


> So the Pelicans are just trying to accumulate as many SGs as they possibly can now?


It's called the reverse Milwaukee.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

Hyperion said:


> That sounds like a whole lotta if's. Bynum has been a promising diamond in LA for 6 years and has never been healthy to live up to it. He's also a knucklehead. He's also 25 and has how many knee surgeries? Yeah, that's not a great player to invest into as your centerpiece. Just look at the Knicks with Amare, and he was a success story for knee surgery!


Invest as our centerpiece? We're offering him a one year deal with a second year that the team can decide on whether or not they want to use. Pursuing Bynum makes a lot of sense in this situation and is an excellent idea.


----------



## e-monk

incentive laden at that


----------



## ATLien

Hyperion said:


> That sounds like a whole lotta if's. Bynum has been a promising diamond in LA for 6 years and has never been healthy to live up to it. He's also a knucklehead. He's also 25 and has how many knee surgeries? Yeah, that's not a great player to invest into as your centerpiece. Just look at the Knicks with Amare, and he was a success story for knee surgery!


The part about Bynum supposedly faking an injury is the biggest red flag


----------



## Dissonance

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 51s



> Chris Andersen will sign a one-year deal to return to the Heat, league sources tell Y! Sports.


----------



## Jace

Hope it's the vet min. Good to have him back though.


----------



## Hyperion

XxIrvingxX said:


> Invest as our centerpiece? We're offering him a one year deal with a second year that the team can decide on whether or not they want to use. Pursuing Bynum makes a lot of sense in this situation and is an excellent idea.


With how you were talking... not caring if the best player in the NBA came back to your team.


----------



## Jace

RollWithEm said:


> So the Pelicans are just trying to accumulate as many SGs as they possibly can now?


Gordon's not long for that team. He's been on his way out for awhile.


----------



## Basel

> Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 4m
> 
> Dallas has reached agreement on a two-year, $5-million plus deal with free agent guard Wayne Ellington, league sources tell Y! Sports.


...


----------



## RollWithEm

Jace said:


> Gordon's not long for that team. He's been on his way out for awhile.


I'll believe it when I see it.


----------



## kbdullah

How is it Dallas is pursuing Monta and Bynum while signing bench type players like Harris and Ellington? They don't have _that_ much cap anymore. Unless they have a Marion trade lined up, I'm confused.

And now they're backcourt has Calderon, Harris, Ellington, Larkin, Ledo, and Carter. Sheesh no more guards.


----------



## hobojoe

kbdullah said:


> How is it Dallas is pursuing Monta and Bynum while signing bench type players like Harris and Ellington? They don't have _that_ much cap anymore. Unless they have a Marion trade lined up, I'm confused.
> 
> And now they're backcourt has Calderon, Harris, Ellington, Larkin, Ledo, and Carter. Sheesh no more guards.


I'm pissed, I was hoping to see a good bit of Larkin this year.


----------



## kbdullah

I would imagine it has to mean Ellis is out of the question and they are only pursuing Bynum.


----------



## XxIrvingxX

Hyperion said:


> With how you were talking... not caring if the best player in the NBA came back to your team.


Yea, if Bynum joined the team and could remain healthy I would be so happy that I honestly wouldn't care if Lebron came back or not. Doesn't mean I don't necessarily want him to come back, it's just that if he didn't I wouldn't be mad about it nor would I care.


----------



## Dissonance

He's back LAL fans.


Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 39s



> RT @mcten: Lakers have reached agreement to bring back Jordan Farmar on one-year, vet min deal. Must negotiate buyout w/ Turkish team first


----------



## R-Star

Dissonance said:


> He's back LAL fans.
> 
> 
> Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 39s


Championship signing.


----------



## Basel

R-Star said:


> Championship signing.


:yesyesyes:


----------



## Dissonance

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 1m



> Y! Sources: Spurs exploration for a sign-and-trade to acquire free agent Andrei Kirilenko ends without a deal.


----------



## Jace

Thank god.


----------



## OneBadLT123

Poor Dirk. It's come to this. Wayne Ellington and hopes of being able to win a bidding war against Cleveland for an immature headcase with a bum knee so that the mavs can get right back into the hunt for that elusive 8th seed.


----------



## RollWithEm

Jerry Zgoda said:


> Tomorrow could be big day for Wolves to swing s-t or get outbid for C Brewer, who wants to come back. Hearing he's aiming for 4 yrs, $19M


Twitter @JerryZgoda


----------



## Diable

I really don't know why Mark Cuban is suddenly got a hard on to emulate Robert Sarver. He needs a new plan, because the one he's using right now is shit.


----------



## Marcus13

Sounds like a terrible deal to committ four years to him


Sent from my iPhone using VS Free


----------



## RollWithEm

Marc Stein said:


> Hearing: Wolves closing in on three-year deal with coveted swingman Corey Brewer in $15 million range


Twitter @ESPNSteinLine

Didn't they already give up on him once?


----------



## Pablo5

Dissonance said:


> He's back fickle LAL fans.
> 
> 
> Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 39s


Fixed


----------



## Jace

RollWithEm said:


> Twitter @ESPNSteinLine
> 
> Didn't they already give up on him once?


Yup. He's improved a lot, but still has some major flaws:



> @*CoupNBA*  4h Only Darren Collison depended more on transition offense than Corey Brewer (28.6 % of his total possessions) last season.
> 
> 
> In half-court offense, Brewer shot 36.2 percent (per Synergy).
> 
> 
> Corey Brewer adds transition possessions, sure, but can you play him much with Rubio if Rubio doesn't shoot better?
> 
> 
> Brewer developed a corner three and shot 35.9 percent from that spot, but that's still below league average.
> 
> 
> Brewer from the left corner? 41.2 percent. Great. From the right? 28.2 percent. Above the break? 19.6 percent.



And they were already a poor-shooting team last season, though health played a factor. Not sure there was a better situation for Brewer than Denver.


----------



## Marcus13

Atlanta Hawks restricted free-agent guard Jeff Teague has signed a four-year, $32 million offer sheet with the Milwaukee Bucks


----------



## Marcus13

Mavericks meeting with Samuel Dalembert tomorrow


----------



## Jamel Irief

Jace said:


> Yup. He's improved a lot, but still has some major flaws:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And they were already a poor-shooting team last season, though health played a factor. Not sure there was a better situation for Brewer than Denver.


Not to mention he is the biggest cherry picker I've seen since Cedric Ceballos.


----------



## croco

Marcus13 said:


> Mavericks meeting with Samuel Dalembert tomorrow


BREAKING NEWS: The Dallas Mavericks have offered former league MVP Hakeem Olajuwon a one-year contract after closely examining his movement skills at this year's NBA Draft.


----------



## RollWithEm

Marcus13 said:


> Atlanta Hawks restricted free-agent guard Jeff Teague has signed a four-year, $32 million offer sheet with the Milwaukee Bucks





Marc Stein said:


> Early indications are Bucks only have to renounce Joel Przybilla to have room for Jeff Teague offer sheet we reported this AM was en route


Twitter @ESPNSteinLine

Say goodbye to Jennings.


----------



## RollWithEm

> After reaching an impasse in negotiations with restricted free-agent guard Gerald Henderson, the Charlotte Bobcats are discussing sign-and-trade possibilities with multiple teams, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.


Yahoo! Sports


----------



## RollWithEm

> The Golden State Warriors have hired Brian Scalabrine as an assistant coach on Head Coach Mark Jackson's staff, the team announced today. Per team policy, terms of the agreement were not announced. Additionally, the team has promoted Joe Boylan to the position of assistant coach/player development.


NBA.com

The Red Mamba!!!


----------



## RollWithEm

Nick Borges | ESPN.com said:


> Monta Ellis is still without a team and it looks like he made two huge mistakes by turning down a three-year, $33 million extension last season and by opting to give up a guaranteed $11 million in 2013-14. Ellis is so upset that he officially fired his agent.
> 
> The Atlanta Hawks, Charlotte Bobcats, Dallas Mavericks and Sacramento Kings are the teams mentioned with Ellis, however all four may pass on him.


So what now?


----------



## RollWithEm

Adrian Wojnarowski said:


> Minnesota, Nikola Pekovic getting closer on a four-year, $50 million contract extension, league sources tell Y! Sports.


I feel like this is exactly his value on the open market. They are not overpaying if that's the final deal, but they also aren't getting any kind of hometown discount.


----------



## Bogg

RollWithEm said:


> NBA.com
> 
> The Red Mamba!!!


Is it weird that I'll probably watch Golden State a bunch more on League Pass now hoping to catch a Scal sideline interview? 



RollWithEm said:


> So what now?


Well, he's probably never seeing a number like 33 over 3 again, but if he's looking at offers in the $7 million range he may just be best served signing a two-year deal with a player option in the second year at the full mid-level with some contender who has room. If he spends a year shedding the selfish label and maybe wins some hardware he could do much better in free agency next summer. Maybe his new agent can convince OKC to amnesty Perkins so that they can give Monta the full MLE.


----------



## RollWithEm

Bogg said:


> Maybe his new agent can convince OKC to amnesty Perkins so that they can give Monta the full MLE.


That would be the ideal landing spot for him.


----------



## croco

Ellis is the type of player who would have gotten a much better deal a couple of years back when fewer teams were relying on advanced statistics and more detailed analysis.


----------



## kbdullah

RollWithEm said:


> So what now?


He needs to do what Mayo did and take a two-year deal w/ a player option. Show what he can do on a better team than Milwaukee, and get a major contract. He's only 27, right? Wish the Mavericks hadn't signed Ellington, b/c it looks like you might be able to get Monta for cheap.


----------



## Diable

Montae would have to be a pretty good sixth man it seems, but of course those guys don't make 11 million per year in the current climate. OKC has the need, but it does not seem likely that they will do anything that puts them over the luxury tax threshold right now.


----------



## RollWithEm

Diable said:


> Montae would have to be a pretty good sixth man it seems, but of course those guys don't make 11 million per year in the current climate.


I guess New Orleans isn't in "the current climate" then.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

> @LakersNation: BREAKING NEWS: Lakers sign Nick Young via @Sam_Amick of USA Today. Welcome to the Lake Show. http://t.co/v4hSXaeNzx


...


----------



## Jace

That came out of nowhere. Can't wait to see Nick Young + Kobe lineups. Young thinks he's Kobe.


----------



## Dissonance

This is just sad now.


Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 



> Told Jose Calderon was part of Mavs' dinner contingent wooing Dalembert, quickly illustrating level of responsibility he'll have in Dallas


----------



## Jace

If he rejects them, maybe Mark Blount can be wooed.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Jace said:


> That came out of nowhere. Can't wait to see Nick Young + Kobe lineups. Young thinks he's Kobe.


He is certainly the crack-whore-on-crystal-meth's Mr. Bean.


----------



## Diable

Young is a good player, so long as his shot is falling. If it isn't then he is terrible.


----------



## Basel

> The Dallas Mavericks have struck a free-agent deal with guard Monta Ellis, according to sources close to the process.
> 
> Sources told ESPN.com that the Mavericks and Ellis have agreed to terms on a three-year deal that -- depending on where Dallas' ends up in terms of salary-cap space as it works on a number of deals -- could rise to as high as $30 million.
> 
> The deal, at the minimum, will be in the $25 million range, sources said.
> 
> Ellis joins point guard Jose Calderon and former Mavericks guard Devin Harris as free-agent signees in Dallas' overhauled backcourt.


http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/9473581/monta-ellis-deal-dallas-mavericks-sources


----------



## Hyperion

E.H. Munro said:


> He is certainly the crack-whore-on-crystal-meth's Mr. Bean.


Now is this a crack whore who prostitutes themselves for crack and then turn and sell the crack to buy meth to smoke or is this a crack whore who does both crack and meth?


----------



## Jace

Important distinction.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

> @Mike_Bresnahan: Lakers agreed to terms with SG Wesley Johnson...1-yr deal for vet's min of $1 mill. Was 4th pick in 2010 draft, played last season for PHX.


Another solid move.


----------



## R-Star

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Another solid move.


Solid? ****ing championship bro.

Wes "The Best" Johnson? Not 1...... Not 2..... Not 3..,,,,


----------



## e-monk

Ladies and Gentlemen, our starting Small Forward (in case you were wondering)


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

R-Star said:


> Solid? ****ing championship bro.
> 
> Wes "The Best" Johnson? Not 1...... Not 2..... Not 3..,,,,


Relax bro. He's just there until we nab Paul George.


----------



## King Joseus

@WojYahooNBA



> Metta World Peace has reached an agreement in principle on a two-year deal with the New York Knicks, league source tells Y! Sports.


----------



## RollWithEm

Seems fitting.


----------



## RollWithEm




----------



## doctordrizzay

Artest makes the Nets vs Knicks just that more entertaining. Hoping for a brawl.


----------



## RollWithEm

Yannis Koutroupis said:


> Hearing Timofey Mozgov may land with the Sacramento Kings.


Twitter @YannisHW

Sad story for a player I enjoy watching.


----------



## kbdullah

Kings are on the come-up though - Vasquez, McLemore, Cousins...if they land Mozgov, they'll just need a good SF prospect.


----------



## Jace

"If they land Mozgov"...That kind of player doesn't move a team like that in any mildly significant direction.

Metta World Peace is going to be even more 3-happy than last season. I called RonRon to NY as soon as I heard he'd be getting amnestied.


----------



## R-Star

kbdullah said:


> Kings are on the come-up though - Vasquez, McLemore, Cousins...if they land Mozgov, they'll just need a good SF prospect.


$50 says Cousins completely ****s that team out of any sort of respectable record, yet again.

You dont win when he's one of your vet players.


----------



## Bogg

R-Star said:


> $50 says Cousins completely ****s that team out of any sort of respectable record, yet again.
> 
> You dont win when he's one of your vet players.


Yea, the Kings are going to battle with the Suns for worst record in the West. The Jazz might get in on that, too, but I kind of like the Kanter/Favors foundation they're going with.


----------



## RollWithEm

Bogg said:


> The Jazz might get in on that, too, but I kind of like the Kanter/Favors foundation they're going with.


That would be the Burke/Burks/Hayward/Favors/Kanter foundation they're going with.


----------



## Bogg

RollWithEm said:


> That would be the Burke/Burks/Hayward/Favors/Kanter foundation they're going with.


Anyone other than the two young bigs fall into the "other guys" category.


----------



## RollWithEm

Gery Woelfel said:


> Whispers increasing at Vegas Summer League that Bucks are talking to Pistons about Jennings' sign and trade.


Twitter Gery Woelfel @JournalTimes.com

Whispers increasing? Who is this guy, Lord Varys the eunuch?


----------



## RollWithEm

Alex Kennedy said:


> I'm hearing Mo Williams is considering taking less to join a contender such as the Spurs or Heat. Nothing imminent, but he's considering it.


Twitter @AlexKennedyNBA


----------



## RollWithEm

Alex Kennedy said:


> The Dallas Mavericks, Houston Rockets, Charlotte Bobcats and Phoenix Suns have expressed interest in Jamaal Tinsley, according to sources.


Twitter @AlexKennedyNBA


----------



## RollWithEm

Alex Kennedy said:


> A return to the Utah Jazz for Jamaal Tinsley is no longer being considered after the team signed John Lucas III, according to a source.


Twitter @AlexKennedyNBA


----------



## RollWithEm

Net Daily said:


> League source says #Nets retain "high interest" in Bogdanovic. Will follow his progress and hope to bring him over as soon as possible.


Twitter @NetsDaily


----------



## XxIrvingxX

Couldn't you have just posted all of that into just one post instead of four?


----------



## e-monk

post count


----------



## XxIrvingxX

e-monk said:


> post count


That explains the number he's at.


----------



## E.H. Munro

e-monk said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen, our starting Small Forward (in case you were wondering)


I actually think this is a good signing for LA, I think he'll be a lot more effective in LA as "the other guy".


----------



## Drizzy

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Alex Kennedy
> I'm hearing Mo Williams is considering taking less to join a contender such as the Spurs or Heat. Nothing imminent, but he's considering it.
> Twitter @AlexKennedyNBA


I wonder if Mo Williams and LeBron have patched things up over the years. I remember it being really awkward during LeBrons first visit back to Cleveland as a member of the Heat.


----------



## R-Star

RollWithEm said:


> Twitter @AlexKennedyNBA


Whoever gets him gets a good signing.

Still one of the better assist guys in the league.


----------



## NOFX22

Marcus camby in talks to join the clippers


----------



## E.H. Munro

They definitely need a C that knows how to play D. And actually gives a shit for that matter.


----------



## RollWithEm

> In a continuing search for deeper point guard depth, the New York Knicks conducted a workout with free-agent guard Bobby Brown in Las Vegas on Tuesday, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.


Yahoo! Sports

I remember that guy from the time he blew up in Summer League for the Hornets. I hope the Knicks give him another chance to make it in the league.


----------



## NOFX22

The Clippers and Byron Mullens are close to an agreement on a two-year deal, tweets Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports.


----------



## Hibachi!

Strange how quiet the Oden sweepstakes have been.


----------



## kbdullah

Mark Cuban is saying Mavericks have verbal agreements with Dalembert, as well as a restructured deal with Devin Harris. Should also re-sign Brandan Wright this weekend.


----------



## RollWithEm

kbdullah said:


> Mark Cuban is saying Mavericks have verbal agreements with Dalembert, as well as a restructured deal with Devin Harris. Should also re-sign Brandan Wright this weekend.


Last year and this year, the Mavericks are like a Frankenstein team. Just throwing parts together and hoping they create some life.


----------



## RollWithEm

Rick Bonnell said:


> Percentage chances on Gerald Henderson outcome: 60% signs extension. 33% plays on qualifying offer. 7% plays elsewhere next season.


Twitter @rick_bonnell

One of the last free agent shoes to drop.


----------



## kbdullah

RollWithEm said:


> Last year and this year, the Mavericks are like a Frankenstein team. Just throwing parts together and hoping they create some life.


To be fair, Dallas was linked to Calderon most of last year and had also pursued Ellis in the past. I think Calderon's contract was lengthy, but the players themselves aren't surprising. Dalembert is a stopgap, but overall they still have a starting five and a clear bench, which you can't say for several teams in the West they'll be competing against for spots 5-8.


----------



## kbdullah

Dalembert deal is 2 Years, 7.5M. Second year is partially guaranteed.


----------



## RollWithEm

> The Wolves have made Pekovic an offer -- believed to be a four-year deal worth as much as $50 million -- and Taylor said Pekovic's camp made a counterproposal.


Minneapolis Star-Tribune

That sounds like about market value. I wonder what their counter-proposal was.


----------



## RollWithEm

Mark Berman said:


> Guard Aaron Brooks says he is returning to the Rockets after signing a 1-year contract with Houston.


Twitter @MarkBermanFox26

This makes Jeremy Lin officially expendable. I hope they can get something done with him.


----------



## Dissonance

Too quiet. Like to see a nice trade come out of nowhere.


----------



## RollWithEm

Dissonance said:


> Too quiet. Like to see a nice trade come out of nowhere.


Asik for Ryan Anderson followed immediately by Granger for Eric Gordon would be lovely.


----------



## RollWithEm

Lang Greene said:


> Miami HEAT are still in play for Greg Oden even as market grows for him. MIA still has taxpayer mid-level exception avail ($3.183m)


Twitter @LangGreene


----------



## Bogg

RollWithEm said:


> Twitter @MarkBermanFox26
> 
> This makes Jeremy Lin officially expendable. I hope they can get something done with him.


I continue to insist that Charlie V(and his expiring contract) plus a tertiary asset for Lin makes sense for both sides.


----------



## RollWithEm

Bogg said:


> I continue to insist that Charlie V(and his expiring contract) plus a tertiary asset for Lin makes sense for both sides.


I would tend to agree with that except for that fact that Morey is scared to lose his Chinese meal ticket... even if he is Taiwanese.


----------



## Bogg

RollWithEm said:


> I would tend to agree with that except for that fact that Morey is scared to lose his Chinese meal ticket... even if he is Taiwanese.


Well, that's like the Ireland/Northern Ireland thing.....it's kind of hard to say a Taiwanese person isn't Chinese unless they're, you know, an ethnicity other than Chinese. Anyway, Asik and Lin are both _available_, but Morey's not going to unload them just for the sake of unloading them, somebody's going to have to offer Houston an upgrade.


----------



## Hibachi!

What's taking Oden so long to decide? I mean the dude had pretty much an entire year to think about where he wanted to go.


----------



## Jace

Last I heard he'd yet to receive an actual offer. He's still meeting with teams and they're gathering/going through medical records. Apparently he plans on working out for the first time in front of different team officials in Indiana and/or Ohio, as I've read the Heat will be watching him in one of those two places. This is likely to go into next month, and could go even longer if teams want to see him work out against an opponent, which has to wait until later in the summer.


----------



## girllovesthegame

RollWithEm said:


> Asik for Ryan Anderson followed immediately by Granger for Eric Gordon would be lovely.


People in New Orleans really need to let that Granger thing go. He's got injuries and is even older than Eric Gordon. Him being older will likely exacerbate his injuries. People keep it up with this Granger to NOLA for Gordon to Indy thing mainly because it's their hometowns.


----------



## rocketeer

RollWithEm said:


> I would tend to agree with that except for that fact that Morey is scared to lose his Chinese meal ticket... even if he is Taiwanese.


there's also the thing where you are the only person who thinks picking up aaron brooks to be third string pg makes lin expendable.

moving asik and lin to bring in a stretch 4 and a pg who is more of a shooter/defender would make sense, but there's not really any reason for the rockets to rush things. they have time to wait for a deal they like.

my guess would be they wait to see how donatas/terrence jones pan out at the 4 and see how lin/harden works in their second season together. then they'll be very active if guys like love or aldridge come available later on in the year.


----------



## BobStackhouse42

girllovesthegame said:


> People in New Orleans really need to let that Granger thing go. He's got injuries and is even older than Eric Gordon. Him being older will likely exacerbate his injuries. People keep it up with this Granger to NOLA for Gordon to Indy thing mainly because it's their hometowns.


Well Granger is better than Gordon and can actually play on the floor with Tyreke Evans. Gordon can't. That's the whole reason the trade makes sense. Well that and the fact that Gordon doesn't want to play in New Orleans.


----------



## kbdullah

Nate Robinson going to Denver...


----------



## E.H. Munro

kbdullah said:


> Nate Robinson going to Denver...


Nate Robinson and JaVale McGee on the same team! There is a god!


----------



## RollWithEm

> The Chicago Bulls announced today that they have waived forward Malcolm Thomas.


NBA.com



> The Bulls have 12 players under contract and remain in the hunt for veteran center Marcus Camby, along with the Heat and Rockets. If Thomas doesn’t sign with another team, he could be invited back to Bulls’ camp. However, his chances of making the regular-season roster always were a longshot.


Chicago Tribune


----------



## Jamel Irief

Robinson maybe enough to keep Denver in the playoffs. Foye and Robinson aren't as good as igoudala and brewer, but with improvement in the front court it should work. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## RollWithEm

I'm not so sure this doesn't mean Andre Miller will be shopped soon. I would stay tuned for that.


----------



## RollWithEm

Marc Stein said:


> Hearing: San Antonio in process of withdrawing qualifying offer to Gary Neal, making Neal an unrestricted free agent and sure to speed exit


Twitter @ESPNSteinLine



David Aldridge said:


> Spurs expected to withdraw qualifying offer to Gary Neal, making him unrestricted FA. Deal should quickly follow, per source.


Twitter @daldridgetnt

The evolutionary Eddie House is on the move.


----------



## Bogg

RollWithEm said:


> I'm not so sure this doesn't mean Andre Miller will be shopped soon. I would stay tuned for that.


I assumed Miller _was_ on the block. He'd be a nice pickup for Detroit as a locker room leader and floor general. Maybe they can talk Dumars into Jonas Jerebko as a cap-friendly Brewer replacement.


----------



## Hibachi!

girllovesthegame said:


> People in New Orleans really need to let that Granger thing go. He's got injuries and is even older than Eric Gordon. Him being older will likely exacerbate his injuries. People keep it up with this Granger to NOLA for Gordon to Indy thing mainly because it's their hometowns.


Granger has that same kind of thing that Joe Johnson had. Because of their relatively late push into being a good player, people think these are young guys. I remember realizing that Joe Johnson was already 29 years old when the Hawks gave him that monstrous contract. 

Granger is the same way. People doesn't realize homeboy is already 30 years old. He's not a prospect that still has a ton of upside.


----------



## Wilt_The_Stilt

Rockets should move Lin for Ilyasova.


----------



## R-Star

Hibachi! said:


> Granger has that same kind of thing that Joe Johnson had. Because of their relatively late push into being a good player, people think these are young guys. I remember realizing that Joe Johnson was already 29 years old when the Hawks gave him that monstrous contract.
> 
> Granger is the same way. People doesn't realize homeboy is already 30 years old. He's not a prospect that still has a ton of upside.


Granger was a 26ppg scorer 5 years ago, and not one semi-knowledgeable basketball fan in the world thinks hes a prospect with upside. 

What the hell are you talking about?


----------



## Bogg

R-Star said:


> Granger was a 26ppg scorer 5 years ago, and not one semi-knowledgeable basketball fan in the world thinks hes a prospect with upside.
> 
> What the hell are you talking about?


On the other hand, if Indiana leadership could sell him on the veteran mentor role, locking him up to a long-term extension at a reasonable price would give the Pacers a hell of a sixth man and someone else with size to throw at Lebron.


----------



## RollWithEm

Misko Raznatovic said:


> During tomorrow, Pero Antic will also sign 1 plus 1 contract with NBA team, Atlanta Hawks. He will be back to Europe on Friday night.


Twitter


----------



## BlakeJesus

*Greg Oden works out for teams*



> Greg Oden went through a two-hour workout Tuesday in Indianapolis in front of Miami Heat coach Erik Spoelstra, new Sacramento Kings general manager Pete D'Alessandro and representatives from the New Orleans Pelicans, according to sources close to the situation.
> 
> Sources told ESPN that Oden will put his skills on display again Thursday for Atlanta Hawks officials before sitting down for his long-anticipated private meeting with the Pelicans later this week in Las Vegas.
> 
> The San Antonio Spurs and Dallas Mavericks also continue to pursue Oden hard. One source close to the process told ESPN.com that teams in the Oden hunt are still in the information-gathering stage and that none has yet put forth an official offer to the former No. 1 overall pick.
> 
> "It went well," the source told ESPN about the workouts. "He did a ton of agility stuff, ran suicides and also did drills on the court."
> 
> Sources maintain that Miami and San Antonio, fresh off dueling in the NBA Finals, are still positioned as the co-favorites for Oden's services. ESPN.com reported earlier this month that the Cleveland Cavaliers were also in the Oden mix until the recent signing of center Andrew Bynum.
> 
> Oden has played just 82 career NBA games after being selected No. 1 overall by Portland in 2007. He hasn't appeared in an NBA game since Dec. 5, 2009, due to numerous knee problems, and he underwent his third microfacture knee surgery in 2012.
> 
> But Oden, sources said, is down to 275 pounds after being as heavy as 315 at one point while out of the game.


Link


----------



## RollWithEm

Oden getting down to 275 doesn't exactly make me feel comfortable about his fitness - given his injury history.


----------



## BlakeJesus

One of the times he got hurt he showed up bigger than normal, but in fantastic shape by all means. With hindsight being 20/20, it was obvious he showed up too big and he thought it contributed to his re-injury. Showing up lighter makes life easier for his knees in theory.


----------



## Hibachi!

R-Star said:


> Granger was a 26ppg scorer 5 years ago, and not one semi-knowledgeable basketball fan in the world thinks hes a prospect with upside.
> 
> What the hell are you talking about?


My point is that he is going to be going on the decline (especially post injury). Most people don't realize how old he really is.


----------



## Diable

Damn I didn't realize it had been that long since Oden had been on the floor


----------



## Sir Patchwork

275 is probably fit enough for Oden. He was 260 as an 18 year old with 8% body fat. He is just a large dude. It's one of the reasons he was so coveted. He carried a 260 pound frame with ease. 



Diable said:


> Damn I didn't realize it had been that long since Oden had been on the floor


It's crazy because he is still only 25. If he could ever stay on the court for long enough, he could still be a very valuable big man in this league. Still a big if.


----------



## Pablo5

Sir Patchwork said:


> 275 is probably fit enough for Oden. He was 260 as an 18 year old with 8% body fat. He is just a large dude. It's one of the reasons he was so coveted. He carried a 260 pound frame with ease.
> 
> 
> 
> It's crazy because he is still only 25. If he could ever stay on the court for long enough, he could still be a very valuable big man in this league. Still a big if.


A big if only if he signed somewhere that needs him for 35 mins. The beauty with signing with the Heat or Spurs is that he would only be called to play 15-20 mins.


----------



## RollWithEm

No team in the league would be crazy enough to try to play him 35 minutes at this point.


----------



## RollWithEm

> Mozgov has been a regular at Impact Basketball in Las Vegas, going hard daily against the likes of Oklahoma City’s Serge Ibaka. The word around Summer League was that Mozgov was headed to the Sacramento Kings as a free agent, although the Denver Nuggets were trying to re-sign him.


HoopsWorld



> The Spurs have emerged as a team interested in Mozgov and they could be the team trying to construct a deal with Denver.


HoopsWorld


Same source. Make up your mind.


----------



## Jace

RollWithEm said:


> Oden getting down to 275 doesn't exactly make me feel comfortable about his fitness - given his injury history.


275 is good for him. He got too heavy during his first rehab lifting weights, then seemed to get bloated heavy during a subsequent rehab. Glad to see him lighter this time.

He was 257 during pre-draft camp, and seemed like he would've been fine in that neighborhood. 

Actually I'm vacillating back and forth on whether or not you're saying it's too high or too low. First impression was too high, but BJ swayed me. If you're saying too high I would once again cite his pre-draft weight. Not too far off.



BlakeJesus said:


> One of the times he got hurt he showed up bigger than normal, but in fantastic shape by all means. With hindsight being 20/20, it was obvious he showed up too big and he thought it contributed to his re-injury. Showing up lighter makes life easier for his knees in theory.


Precisely. Even at the time I didn't like him gaining that much weight, and it was all upper body. His lower body still looked underdeveloped. Not surprising the knees continued to go.


----------



## Jace

Fisher/Thunder going round 3.

K-Mart went back to NY earlier.


----------



## c_dog

no mention of ellis to mavericks?

ellis turned down a 36million dollar 3 year extension with the bucks, fired his agent for "lack of lucrative offers" and is now signing with mavericks for 25-30million deal for 3 years. clearly another player who thinks he's worth more than he truly is. if he were over 30 years old he would have become latrell spreewell/bonzi wells.


----------



## R-Star

Hibachi! said:


> My point is that he is going to be going on the decline (especially post injury). Most people don't realize how old he really is.


I don't see him on the decline at all. He is what he is, a good two way player who can put up 18-22 a game, but isn't the worlds most efficient scorer.


----------



## Pablo5

c_dog said:


> no mention of ellis to mavericks?
> 
> ellis turned down a 36million dollar 3 year extension with the bucks, fired his agent for "lack of lucrative offers" and is now signing with mavericks for 25-30million deal for 3 years. clearly another player who thinks he's worth more than he truly is. if he were over 30 years old he would have become latrell spreewell/bonzi wells.


It's a risk game. Besides he was in Milwaukee, and can you blame him for taking that risk? He saw a weak free agent pool, and he took the risk like others. Honestly I think he made a better choice in teams. The Mav's will probably be a 6-8 seed in the West. Milwaukee is a dump


----------



## e-monk

Dallas aint much better (unless you're a big strip club aficionado) and finishing 6 to 8 seed this year is a sucker play


----------



## RollWithEm

Kenyon Martin returns to Knicks

I couldn't find this posted anywhere else on the site. Forgive me if I've been unknowingly scooped.


----------



## BlakeJesus

I think his game fits their team well, smart for both sides to have him go back.


----------



## RollWithEm

> The Denver Nuggets have reached agreement on a three-year, $14 million contract extension with restricted free-agent center Timofey Mozgov, league sources told Yahoo! Sports. The deal will include a team option in the third year, a source said. An opportunity for Mozgov to play a significantly increased role with Denver opened because of a draft night deal that sent center Kosta Koufos to the Memphis Grizzlies. Mozgov will play behind starting center JaVale McGee under new coach Brian Shaw.


Yahoo! Sports

Good idea.


----------



## RollWithEm

> Unics signed a one year deal with Andrew Goudelock (24 yo, 191cm). Last season he played in Los Angeles Lakers and Rio Grande Valley Vipers, NBA DLeague MVP 2013.


Sportando

Looks like he's going to Russia.


----------



## Diable

Goudelock looks like the sort of guy who could do well in the right situation overseas. He definitely has some offensive ability and he is not shy either.


----------



## E.H. Munro

RollWithEm said:


> Yahoo! Sports
> 
> Good idea.


I think they realised that the only C on their roster was That's So JaVale McGee.


----------



## Jace

RollWithEm said:


> Kenyon Martin returns to Knicks
> 
> I couldn't find this posted anywhere else on the site. Forgive me if I've been unknowingly scooped.





Jace said:


> Fisher/Thunder going round 3.
> 
> *K-Mart went back to NY earlier.*


SCOOPED!


----------



## Damian Necronamous

Here are the remaining signings I'd like to see...

Brandon Jennings to MIL for qualifying offer (just get it over with already!)
Mo Williams to MEM (gives their bench more shooting and scoring)
Lamar Odom to LAL (makes things more interesting next year)
Dejuan Blair to NYK (gives them a solid post-up scorer)
Beno Udrih to CHI (won't give him a chance because they have Teague waiting in the wings, but he's a way better playmaker off the bench than Hinrich)


----------



## e-monk

I'd rather LAL take another flyer on one of their summer league guys, Lamar's beat and there is no upside


----------



## RollWithEm

> Sources close to the process say Jennings has strongly considered picking up his Qualifying Offer and hitting unrestricted free agency next year.


HoopsWorld

I, for one, am glad this guy didn't get overpaid this offseason.


----------



## kbdullah

What was Jennings QO?


----------



## e-monk

kbdullah said:


> What was Jennings QO?


4.5m.... ouch


----------



## Diable

It's hard to root for Jennings. The guy could really use some humility. I would guess a lot of these guys have unrealistic views of their market value though.


----------



## kbdullah

e-monk said:


> 4.5m.... ouch


Ought to be a wake-up call to him if nothing else. Don't see Jennings/Mayo being a good backcourt though.


----------



## Bubbles

I'm completely fine with him hitting UFA next offseason. If this offseason wasn't a wake up call for him, next offseason will be unless he takes a step forward on the court, in which I have no confidence in him doing so.


----------



## RollWithEm

Damian Necronamous said:


> Mo Williams to MEM (gives their bench more shooting and scoring)





Chris Vernon said:


> Mo Williams is flying in to meet with Grizzlies front office tonight


Twitter @ChrisVernonShow

Nice prediction.


----------



## hobojoe

I like that fit a lot. Hopefully it gets done.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## RollWithEm

> The Utah Jazz announced today that the team has signed rookie free-agent guard Ian Clark to a contract.


NBA.com


----------



## Dee-Zy

Miller and Mo Will would make Memphis really dangerous.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

Thunder sign Ryan Gomes. We've officially had the best offseason of any team ever.


----------



## Bogg

Sir Patchwork said:


> Thunder sign Ryan Gomes. We've officially had the best offseason of any team ever.


Eh, he's a good locker room guy and, if he hasn't fallen off significantly, gives them a small-ball 4 that can stretch the floor off the bench. Considering they only gave him a partially guaranteed minimum contract, not a big deal one way or the other.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

Bogg said:


> Eh, he's a good locker room guy and, if he hasn't fallen off significantly, gives them a small-ball 4 that can stretch the floor off the bench. Considering they only gave him a partially guaranteed minimum contract, not a big deal one way or the other.


I don't have any problem with the move, I just have a problem that it was their only move. Luxury tax is a bitch I guess. Maybe they have some tricks up their sleeve for next summer which is a much heavier free agent class.


----------



## Hibachi!

Btw to piggyback off of SP's comment... I'm really glad the NBA finally got serious about the cap. Teams like the Heat and the Lakers had to make some cuts just to make sure they didn't get annihilated by the luxury tax.


----------



## RollWithEm

Marc Stein said:


> Surprise development in Mavs' big man search: Hearing Dallas in serious talks on signing DeJuan Blair. Told deal looks "promising"


Twitter @ESPNSteinLine

Would be a good signing for the Mavs.


----------



## Hibachi!

Mavs continue to make deals that will keep them afloat. Makes sense. But for some reason no big name wants to go to Dallas. Great market. Great fanbase. Owner that's willing to spend. What more do they want?


----------



## kbdullah

Hope the Blair signing goes through, b/c Dallas has needed a backup PF to replace Brand. I think his gritty style complements the more euro feel the Mavericks have.

Problem Dallas has had recruiting is that you need a young or prime superstar to lure the other superstars.


----------



## RollWithEm

Alex Kennedy said:


> The Atlanta Hawks, Milwaukee Bucks, Charlotte Bobcats and Denver Nuggets have expressed interest in Devin Ebanks, according to sources.


Twitter @AlexKennedyNBA


----------



## e-monk

kbdullah said:


> Hope the Blair signing goes through, b/c Dallas has needed a backup PF to replace Brand. I think his gritty style complements the more euro feel the Mavericks have.
> 
> Problem Dallas has had recruiting is that you need a young or prime superstar to lure the other superstars.


he's just so tweener for his skill set though


----------



## kbdullah

Woj from Yahoo and Marc Stein from ESPN both report an upcoming sign and trade of Brandon Jennings to the Detroit Pistons. "Rest of trade details still being sorted."


----------



## Hibachi!

kbdullah said:


> Woj from Yahoo and Marc Stein from ESPN both report an upcoming sign and trade of Brandon Jennings to the Detroit Pistons. "Rest of trade details still being sorted."


Didn't see that one coming.


----------



## Bogg

kbdullah said:


> Woj from Yahoo and Marc Stein from ESPN both report an upcoming sign and trade of Brandon Jennings to the Detroit Pistons. "Rest of trade details still being sorted."


I had thought about that possibility (Detroit obviously has the right contracts), but didn't really think Jennings would be a good fit there. The only thing I _really_ don't like about that deal is that it probably takes them out of the market for Rondo.


----------



## RollWithEm

Brandon Knight? It would truly be shocking if Greg Monroe was in that deal.


----------



## Bogg

RollWithEm said:


> Brandon Knight? It would truly be shocking if Greg Monroe was in that deal.


I imagine it's either Stuckey or Charlie V packaged with Knight. If Milwaukee got Monroe it'd be a steal.


----------



## RollWithEm

I can't think of a much more complimentary young big man tandem than Monroe/Sanders.


----------



## kbdullah

Supposedly a 3yr 24M deal, but no news yet on the trade parts.


----------



## RollWithEm

Knight and Jerebko would work financially. Wouldn't be the worst return in the world for Milwaukee, either.


----------



## doctordrizzay

*CP3 to Houston if it wasn't for Doc Rivers signing on for the coaching job*


"To Chris Paul, who basically told the Clippers that after they squashed the first incarnation of their Doc Rivers trade. Chris didn't like that. He let them know he was heading to Houston to team up with Dwight. And he wasn't kidding. For about 36 hours, Morey probably felt like all 11 guys in Ocean's Eleven. You know what happened next: The Clippers blinked, the Doc trade got revived and finished, and the Clippers were offering Chris 107 million reasons to play for him. Crisis averted. The lesson, as always: Chris Paul runs the Clippers."

- Simmons

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/952 ... run-part-1


Interesting. Don't know if CP3 was bluffing but that could have left clippers into long term mediocrity and the trio of Harden, Howard, and Paul would having been something else to watch.


----------



## Hibachi!

That team would have been so dirty. Wow. 

I bet that's why they were pretty sure he was going to Houston (Howard) and then all of a sudden he was like "Oh I might stay now" after finding CP3 was staying.

But can you imagine that team? So dirty. CP3 to get everyone involved. Harden to do the scoring. Howard to play D and catch lobs. Crazy good.


----------



## croco

Hibachi! said:


> Mavs continue to make deals that will keep them afloat. Makes sense. But for some reason no big name wants to go to Dallas. Great market. Great fanbase. Owner that's willing to spend. What more do they want?


The amount of great free agents is very limited, it is easy to miss out regardless of the circumstances. They were close to signing Deron Williams last year and apparently Howard gave serious consideration to Dallas. It's not a reliable way to build a team because you need a lot of good fortune and timing.


----------



## RollWithEm

Ethan J. Skolnick said:


> Still expecting news on Greg Oden by the end of the weekend. Still primarily between Pelicans and Heat, from what I'm hearing.


Twitter @EthanJSkolnick


----------



## E.H. Munro

The Unibrower and Oden would be, potentially, a damn sweet interior D-fest.


----------



## Bogg

E.H. Munro said:


> The Unibrower and Oden would be, potentially, a damn sweet interior D-fest.


For the first 18 or so games, yes.


----------



## kbdullah

Hibachi! said:


> That team would have been so dirty. Wow.
> 
> I bet that's why they were pretty sure he was going to Houston (Howard) and then all of a sudden he was like "Oh I might stay now" after finding CP3 was staying.
> 
> But can you imagine that team? So dirty. CP3 to get everyone involved. Harden to do the scoring. Howard to play D and catch lobs. Crazy good.


Did Houston have enough space for both outright? Pretty sure they would've had to do a sign-and-trade for one or the other.


----------



## RollWithEm

This two things may or may not be related:



> The Knicks, who are only able to offer minimum contracts, also are interested in Mo Williams but it is more likely he signs with Miami if it comes down to a minimum deal. An NBA source said the Knicks no longer have embattled Delonte West on their wish list despite prior inquiries.


New York Post



> The desperate-for-a-point-guard Knicks have until Aug. 15 to make a move on intriguing Euroleague point guard Bobby Brown, and he hopes they do. Brown signed a tentative agreement Wednesday to play for Donguam of the Chinese Basketball Association, but can break the deal before that date, according to a league source. The league source said Brown’s top choice is to play for the Knicks and take less money than his roughly $1 million-plus Chinese pact.


New York Post

Would choosing Bobby Brown over Delonte West be a decent decision for the Knicks?


----------



## Jace

I have a contribution to "Knicks: Related?"



> @*JaredZwerling*  2h Mo Williams is in the market for a higher deal than the veteran's minimum, so count the #*Knicks* out. Not a candidate.


And then...



> @*JaredZwerling*  1h Source: The #*Knicks* are in conversations with Jannero Pargo, a veteran point guard who played for the Wizards, Hawks & Bobcats last season.



Wonder if Mo didn't like Memphis' money or minute allotment.


----------



## Diable

It would seem strange if Mo Williams couldn't get some type of half-way decent deal. The guy was never close to a second banana, but he can play a bit in the right role. He had a great season for the Clippers two years ago and it's not like he was terrible last year


----------



## Jace

From what I've heard, there are no competitive-enough teams with money left. He doesn't want to go to a middling team.


----------



## Hibachi!

Man apparently the Heat are only offering the minimum to Oden. Which means they'd still have the mid-level. Can they snag BOTH Mo-Will and Oden?


----------



## E.H. Munro

Plus, with Mo Williams in tow they would have NBA all-time great Norris Cole to use in trade.


----------



## Jace

More than likely it would be Chalmers used in any trade. He'll be a FA next offseason and may price himself out of their range.

Nothing's been reported about how much each team has offered Oden. Mo Will has apparently told people he's considering taking the minimum from Miami. I'm thinking LeBron is trying to get his old running mate in the fold.


----------



## 77AJ

Kind of seems like the way you guys are talking is that you think Oden is leaning for Miami. Any reason to believe that ? It seems he's kept his decision under the wraps pretty well to this point. I saw on ESPN today, that Oden is suppose to decide on a team (friday) which is today. And it's almost 3pm (pacific time). So i would assume his decision should happen very soon ? How will he announce ? Twitter , ESPN , etc ?


----------



## Hibachi!

23AJ said:


> Kind of seems like the way you guys are talking is that you think Oden is leaning for Miami. Any reason to believe that ? It seems he's kept his decision under the wraps pretty well to this point. I saw on ESPN today, that Oden is suppose to decide on a team (friday) which is today. And it's almost 3pm (pacific time). So i would assume his decision should happen very soon ? How will he announce ? Twitter , ESPN , etc ?


They've been recruiting him for a long time and it's been said that they were the favorites. The only thing probably stopping him is the spotlight. He might also be using the "decision" as leverage for more money from the Heat, who were only offering the minimum. But you never really know. He could sign anywhere.


----------



## BBallMind

Mo Williams is not a true point guard, but that's what would make him successful on Miami. All he would have to do is knock down wide open threes. It would be an upgrade over Chalmers.


----------



## Jzilla

If Oden is smart, he'll go to the Heat. I despise them, but they have the best chance at the title.


----------



## NOFX22

Greg Oden signs with Miami heat


----------



## doctordrizzay

I put him on the heat team in nba 2k last week


----------



## Marcus13

Welcome to miamis injured reserve mr oden!


Sent from my iPhone using VS Free


----------



## Jzilla

Dammit, the Heat just got even better. Figures the one team I hate would be the best...


----------



## Jamel Irief

He's a good replacement for Eddy Curry I guess.

Why would Bynum get 12 million a year and all Oden can get is the minimum?


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

They're gonna have to hook both his knees to a PRP machine just to get him on the bus...


----------



## Jace

Bynum has proven much more in this league. Still, for Andrew to not work out or disclose medical records was pretty shady. Oden worked out and let teams go through his medical history and present.


----------



## Jamel Irief

Jace said:


> Bynum has proven much more in this league. Still, for Andrew to not work out or disclose medical records was pretty shady. Oden worked out and let teams go through his medical history and present.


If it got him 11 million more than Oden I'd say its good business no?


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Jace

Really, 4 mill. Andrew only has 6 guaranteed, and Greg has a player option for '15.

But in the end you're right. If things are as bad as they say with Bynum, he may have only gotten minimum offers had he opened up.


----------



## Jace

> @*briancmahoney*  7h Big decision LeBron will face next summer: Greg Oden's knees or Andrew Bynum's knees.


I know Xx will remember me hoping for this before either signed. Fun fun. All in jest, though. Obviously, so much more goes into it (Dwyane Wade's knees).


----------



## 77AJ

From Rip City to Miami. Good luck to you guys, I don't see Oden holding up at all. His last knee injury came during a lay up drill. It's to bad, the guy would of been great.


----------



## Pablo5

77AJ said:


> From Rip City to Miami. Good luck to you guys, I don't see Oden holding up at all. His last knee injury came during a lay up drill. It's to bad, the guy would of been great.


He will be fine. He hasn't tried to play in a couple of years. He spent rehabbing, and strengthen the muscles within his leg. He lost weight, and the Heat aren't demanding much from him, but his size. The Nba better hope he can't hold up, because if he does you can say THREE PEAT!!!!


----------



## R-Star

I don't see this being much more than an enjoyable side show for the season.

If the Heat 3-peat, it won't have anything to do with Greg Oden.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

The Heat threepeat dream rests on Wade's knees not Oden. And they better hope Lebron doesn't begin showing wear and tear. He's yet to have a serious injury.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

I hope for Oden's sake he can salvage his remaining years by making a successful comeback and staying relatively healthy. He was one of my favorite prospects ever and never really got the chance to reach his unbelievable ceiling. I have no doubt that even with the time off and lengthy rehabs, if he can stay on the floor, he will be very effective.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

Spoelstra will probably "keep him in the holster" as he said he did with Mike Miller. Play Oden just enough minutes so that he understands the sets and where he is supposed to be. Other than that, save him for the playoff matchups where he is needed.


----------



## roux

The same shit happened with Sam Bowie, the first 5 years of his career were a disaster due to his leg issues but he still turned into a decent rotation player in this league. If Oden can give you a quality 15-20 a night off the bench he is a tremendous backup center


----------



## 77AJ

Not trying to rain on your parade. Although it should be pointed out that the injuries that Greg Oden has sustained is much more serious then what Bowie went through. Who's injuries while serious were all only broken bones. 

On the other hand Oden has had microfracture surgery twice on his left knee, and once on his right knee, he had surgery on fractured left patella , and Oden underwent arthroscopic surgery on his right knee. And missed time due to a chipped left knee and foot injuries. Im sure there was more, minor injuries, but thats what I remember when I was following Oden closely with the Blazers.


----------



## Jamel Irief

Pablo5 said:


> He will be fine. He hasn't tried to play in a couple of years. He spent rehabbing, and strengthen the muscles within his leg. He lost weight, and the Heat aren't demanding much from him, but his size. The Nba better hope he can't hold up, because if he does you can say THREE PEAT!!!!


Oh god this guy is a heat fan? I feel sorry for heat fans that the biggest annoying trolls all claim their team. Heated, Chris Richards, drizzly, this Pablo guy. 

Does winning bring douches or bring out the doichiness?


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Jzilla

I think it's a little of both. I can't stand them.


----------



## E.H. Munro

77AJ said:


> Not trying to rain on your parade. Although it should be pointed out that the injuries that Greg Oden has sustained is much more serious then what Bowie went through. Who's injuries while serious were all only broken bones.
> 
> On the other hand Oden has had microfracture surgery twice on his left knee, and once on his right knee, he had surgery on fractured left patella , and Oden underwent arthroscopic surgery on his right knee. And missed time due to a chipped left knee and foot injuries. Im sure there was more, minor injuries, but thats what I remember when I was following Oden closely with the Blazers.


Bowie had so many broken legs it took him six years to finish college. He eventually required a double bone graft in order to stay healthy enough to be a backup. So, yeah, they're comparable.


----------



## 77AJ

E.H. Munro said:


> Bowie had so many broken legs it took him six years to finish college. He eventually required a double bone graft in order to stay healthy enough to be a backup. So, yeah, they're comparable.


I've watched the documentary "Going BIG". I never said his injuries were not serious. Read my post over. However they're not the same. Most people consider the injuries Greg Oden sustained the worst injury a professional athlete can have and try and recover from. Not much less Oden had three microfracture surgeries to his knees, and a multiple of other surgeries. And we might not be done counting. Oden has never proven to be able to stay healthy, far from it actually.


----------



## doctordrizzay

Instant three peat! League won't see whats coming! bring out the water hose because you can't stop the heat! weee ooooo wwwweeee ooooo


----------



## E.H. Munro

77AJ said:


> I've watched the documentary "Going BIG". I never said his injuries were not serious. Read my post over. However they're not the same. Most people consider the injuries Greg Oden sustained the worst injury a professional athlete can have and try and recover from. Not much less Oden had three microfracture surgeries to his knees, and a multiple of other surgeries. And we might not be done counting. Oden has never proven to be able to stay healthy, far from it actually.


I have no idea what you're talking about and I suspect that you don't either. At the very time of the first surgery I said that a lot of NBA doctors had come to see micro fracture surgery as a panacea. Oden is prime example #1 of a guy that probably didn't need to have it done. (He had one spot in his left knee where the cartilage was bad, and rather that pursue any number of other options they went straight to micro fracture to cure it, and that was the beginning of the problem.)


----------



## 77AJ

E.H. Munro said:


> I have no idea what you're talking about and I suspect that you don't either. At the very time of the first surgery I said that a lot of NBA doctors had come to see micro fracture surgery as a panacea. Oden is prime example #1 of a guy that probably didn't need to have it done. (He had one spot in his left knee where the cartilage was bad, and rather that pursue any number of other options they went straight to micro fracture to cure it, and that was the beginning of the problem.)


What do you mean you have no idea what I'm talking about ? The documentary is about Sam Bowie "going big" Also For someone quick to quote doctors as the end all be all experts on this forum. It's quite interesting to see you so quickly become the expert, and the doctors are the incompetent ones. 

Any rate, both guys injuries are well documented, and there is no question that Greg Oden has sustained more severe injuries, hence the lack of a career he's had, and probably will never have because of his bad knees.


----------



## doctordrizzay

Heres the video the Mavs showed Howard at the start of the meeting they had with him.


http://videos.videopress.com/7gUQqrhk/dhmavs_ultimate_video_project_1280x720_fmt1.ogv


----------



## LA68

77AJ said:


> What do you mean you have no idea what I'm talking about ? The documentary is about Sam Bowie "going big" Also For someone quick to quote doctors as the end all be all experts on this forum. It's quite interesting to see you so quickly become the expert, and the doctors are the incompetent ones.
> 
> Any rate, both guys injuries are well documented, and there is no question that Greg Oden has sustained more severe injuries, hence the lack of a career he's had, and probably will never have because of his bad knees.


What people don't realize is Bowie was 7'1" and could lead a fast break at a time when 7 footers only were allowed to stay in the paint. 

Oden has no skill outside of being tall. He has no post game, can't shoot and can't make a FT. And he has had several years to improve those skills and I bet he hasn't worked on one thing .

He'll be this year's Eddy Curry, or should I say Juwan Howard. He'll be cut before Christmas or they'll let him hang on to save face. 

People ask can he get back ? I say he was never there in the first place.


----------



## Ballscientist

Oden's injury list

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/25906538


----------



## R-Star

E.H. Munro said:


> I have no idea what you're talking about and I suspect that you don't either. At the very time of the first surgery I said that a lot of NBA doctors had come to see micro fracture surgery as a panacea. Oden is prime example #1 of a guy that probably didn't need to have it done. (He had one spot in his left knee where the cartilage was bad, and rather that pursue any number of other options they went straight to micro fracture to cure it, and that was the beginning of the problem.)


They should have called you first before giving him surgery. What a wasted opportunity for the Blazers.

The arrogance of that organization for not checking with the great EH first.


----------



## Jamel Irief

R-Star said:


> They should have called you first before giving him surgery. What a wasted opportunity for the Blazers.
> 
> The arrogance of that organization for not checking with the great EH first.


I just saw that.

EH, how does that explain him jacking up the other knee about a year later?


----------



## Diable

This thread is on crack, but there isn't a whole lot more to talk about this off season. Carry on.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

LA68 said:


> Oden has no skill outside of being tall. He has no post game, can't shoot and can't make a FT. And he has had several years to improve those skills and I bet he hasn't worked on one thing .


It's always peculiar to me when people judge the skill of a big man by their outside jump shot or as you stated about Bowie, ability to lead a fast break. Who cares about that crap from your big man when your guards take care of those things? Oden had great hands and feet, a developing his post game, had great defensive instincts and shot 76% from the free throw line the last year he played. He had physical advantages that allowed him to put in anything he caught remotely close to the hoop (much like Howard or Shaq). This meant even as a 21 year old post player with a raw post game, you still had to account for him offensively and give him attention (again much like Dwight). These are big man skills and Oden had them. Unless you can shoot like Dirk I don't really care if my 7 foot center can lead a fast break.


----------



## E.H. Munro

77AJ said:


> What do you mean you have no idea what I'm talking about ? The documentary is about Sam Bowie "going big" Also For someone quick to quote doctors as the end all be all experts on this forum. It's quite interesting to see you so quickly become the expert, and the doctors are the incompetent ones.
> 
> Any rate, both guys injuries are well documented, and there is no question that Greg Oden has sustained more severe injuries, hence the lack of a career he's had, and probably will never have because of his bad knees.


Microfracture isn't an injury, as you appear to think. It's a way of replacing cartilage. But in Oden's case they took the microfracture route as a first option to cure what was, in _their_ words, a single spot on the knee where the cartilage was bad. The end result of that procedure, combined with all the butchered rehab, was that he couldn't stay on the court. 

But Bowie's problem was that his bones were always brittle, hence doctor's resorting to bone grafts on both legs eventually to see if that would get him healthy enough to play. 

So, in conclusion, Bowie's big problem was there at the very outset, while Oden's looks to have been largely a result of the worst medical staff in the history of the NBA.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Jamel Irief said:


> EH, how does that explain him jacking up the other knee about a year later?


Weren't you the one that posted the article from one of the physical therapists that the Trailblazers consulted and ignored in the Oden situation? And I'm really not sure what later injuries have to do with 2377AJ's claims. Because Oden's 2013 knees didn't exist when they decided that microfracture was the only way to deal with _what they asserted_ was a small problem. I know I wasn't the only person dubious about the wisdom of it and I sure as shit wasn't the only one that thought it might not be the best idea to have the huge guy that just had microfracture surgery bulk up immediately after.

Way back when there was no bigger Bowie fan than me. But even I couldn't believe that Portland would take him over Jordan and Barkley. Because his legs were breaking under the strain of high school and college seasons. There was just no way he was going to hold up over an NBA season.


----------



## 77AJ

E.H. Munro said:


> Microfracture isn't an injury, as you appear to think. It's a way of replacing cartilage. But in Oden's case they took the microfracture route as a first option to cure what was, in _their_ words, a single spot on the knee where the cartilage was bad. The end result of that procedure, combined with all the butchered rehab, was that he couldn't stay on the court.
> 
> But Bowie's problem was that his bones were always brittle, hence doctor's resorting to bone grafts on both legs eventually to see if that would get him healthy enough to play.
> 
> So, in conclusion, Bowie's big problem was there at the very outset, while Oden's looks to have been largely a result of the worst medical staff in the history of the NBA.


Don't try and get smart with me. Everyone knows that microfracture surgery is a technique used to rebuild new cartilage.

You wanna call it a "Spot" as to down play it. However that "spot" could be explained much more in detail and why the procedure was needed by a doctor. Please don't try and down play things to fit your argument. That so called Spot made it impossible for the man that is Greg Oden to be able to move, jump, and cut. Also take a look at Odens medical history, his damaged knees are quite easily arguably worse off then anything Sam Bowie had to deal with.

Lastly, it's sure easy to take shots at the Portland Trailblazers medical staff. However if you look deeper. You will see that the Blazers medical staff consulted many doctors, and got many second opinions. The Blazers went above and beyond to try and do everything they could to help Oden get back on the court. 

But again you know more than all the doctors that saw Greg Oden and the Blazers medical staff ? Come on man.


----------



## E.H. Munro

R-Star said:


> They should have called you first before giving him surgery. What a wasted opportunity for the Blazers.
> 
> The arrogance of that organization for not checking with the great EH first.


Maybe if they'd listened to the kinesiologist that they'd hired to help them figure out how they should deal with Oden? I know, I know, that's way too illogical a path to consider. I mean things worked out so well by ignoring the guy and having Oden undergo microfracture surgery and immediately bulk up after.


----------



## E.H. Munro

77AJ said:


> Don't try and get smart with me. Everyone knows that microfracture surgery is a technique used to rebuild new cartilage.
> 
> You wanna call it a "Spot". That so called Spot made it impossible for the man that is Greg Oden to be able to move, jump, and cut.


Really? Because he was doing all of that in the NCAA title game. And _they_ called it a spot.


----------



## 77AJ

E.H. Munro said:


> Really? Because he was doing all of that in the NCAA title game. And _they_ called it a spot.


You think Greg Oden was healthy he would of have all these procedures done ? Come one man, you're grasping for straws here.


----------



## 77AJ

Also it was Jay Jensen (Blazers trainer/medical), and the doctor who saw the spot in the x-ray when Oden was complaining to having pain after doing a lay up drill. So you can use the term "spot" all you want. However I'm sure a qualified doctor could actually give a more articulate and detailed statement on what the spot represents, and why Oden needed micorfracture surgery again. 

Just wanted to give the back story to the "spot" EH keeps bringing up. Believe me when I say all of us in Portland lived and died with the Greg Oden health reports, procedures, and hopes he would recover. The guy has bad knees end of story, and is quite easily arguable his injuries were more damaging to his career and over all health than what Sam Bowie had to go through.


----------



## 77AJ

E.H. Munro said:


> Maybe if they'd listened to the kinesiologist that they'd hired to help them figure out how they should deal with Oden? I know, I know, that's way too illogical a path to consider. I mean things worked out so well by ignoring the guy and having Oden undergo microfracture surgery and immediately bulk up after.


Do your remember or even consider how many people were pushing their opinions on the Blazers organization of what to do with Oden ? No NBA franchise is going to hear out everyone. 

Also as critical as you are about the Blazers organization. They did talk to many doctors up and down the west coast.

The fact of the matter is, bad knees that don't heal, with the best doctors doing the procedures, and having one on one trainers and medical staff helping you recover through physical therapy is more about how Odens body responds and the time table it will take for him to heal Then it has anything to do with the medical staff being bad, or not doing everything they could to help him.

Hell Greg Oden was living with Jay Jensen who was cooking for Oden, taking him out of the house, going to all his appointments that has to do with him recovery and rebuilding his knees. Walking Oden up and down the street of Portland, the guy was living in a house with Oden. Thats how above and beyond the Blazers organization gave personal attention to Oden and trying to help not only physically but emotionally and mentally to get through this. I realize a lot of this hasn't been reported or common knowledge, but it's out there.


----------



## R-Star

I've decided the easiest way to deal with EH going forward is to view him as a parody poster.

Otherwise I mean what a joke. I wonder how many large print keyboards he breaks every month, the argumentative old ****.


----------



## R-Star

And am I the only one who just zips right past AJ's paragraph posts?


----------



## E.H. Munro

I think the feelings of most people are summed up in this exchange...




Cinco de Mayo said:


> Basel said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many people have fallen off faster than T-Mac did?
> 
> 
> 
> R-Star?
Click to expand...


----------



## R-Star

E.H. Munro said:


> I think the feelings of most people are summed up in this exchange...


Well, it would make sense to quote someone else's insult, seeing as the ones you've tried to force down people's throats have been met with laughs going in the wrong direction.


Maybe if I pretend I know better than NBA trainers and medical staff you'll finally respect me. Oden's had 3 knee surgeries, so for you to act like his first one was unnecessary, then act high and might when someone brings up the fact your opinion is ridiculous since he ended up having the procedure in the other knee as well is pretty funny.

"why does it matter what happened to his other knee? I'm talking about the first surgery!" :laugh: yea, the other surgeries aren't prevalent at all.


----------



## Bogg

Has anyone seen Oden in any sort of competition against other players in the last couple months? What made him special wasn't his size, it was the athleticism _at_ his size. If his knees are shot to the point of robbing him of his explosiveness, there's a chance he isn't much more than Kendrick Perkins with better name recognition. Admittedly, I have no idea what he has left.


----------



## E.H. Munro

R-Star said:


> "why does it matter what happened to his other knee? I'm talking about the first surgery!" :laugh: yea, the other surgeries aren't prevalent at all.


Can I just say how reassuring we all find it that a guy that claims to be a petroleum engineer struggles with basic math and apparently doesn't understand how to work out 2377AJ's claim that Oden was every bit as injured coming out of college as Bowie? 

I'd point out that at the time of the first surgery lots of people posted articles with contrary opinions from actual doctors (rather than petroleum engineers) about the wisdom of preemptive microfracture surgery where there wasn't a major problem but what's the point? You're lonely and depressed and are so desperate for attention that you'll accept here as a substitute.


----------



## R-Star

E.H. Munro said:


> Can I just say how reassuring we all find it that a guy that claims to be a petroleum engineer struggles with basic math and apparently doesn't understand how to work out 2377AJ's claim that Oden was every bit as injured coming out of college as Bowie?
> 
> I'd point out that at the time of the first surgery lots of people posted articles with contrary opinions from actual doctors (rather than petroleum engineers) about the wisdom of preemptive microfracture surgery where there wasn't a major problem but what's the point? You're lonely and depressed and are so desperate for attention that you'll accept here as a substitute.


So.... You aren't going to talk about his other knee injuries?

But you are going to try insults instead? Sorry for being a petroleum engineer EH. You questioning me on math is priceless though. 

As far as being lonely, I'm having a coffee with my kid sitting next to me right now watching Let's Make A Deal, waiting for my wife to finish getting ready so she can swap in and I can shower. Then we're going into town to meet some people for lunch. Prevalent? Only in the fact that a sad old man like yourself trying to call me out is comical.


----------



## RollWithEm

> Veteran forward Antawn Jamison and Clippers coach and senior vice president of player personnel Doc Rivers had dinner Saturday night in Los Angeles, a source with knowledge of the situation told ESPNLosAngeles.com.


ESPN.com


----------



## R-Star

RollWithEm said:


> ESPN.com


Not a bad addition, although he looked pretty invisible the last while.


----------



## Jamel Irief

E.H. Munro said:


> Weren't you the one that posted the article from one of the physical therapists that the Trailblazers consulted and ignored in the Oden situation? And I'm really not sure what later injuries have to do with 2377AJ's claims. Because Oden's 2013 knees didn't exist when they decided that microfracture was the only way to deal with _what they asserted_ was a small problem. I know I wasn't the only person dubious about the wisdom of it and I sure as shit wasn't the only one that thought it might not be the best idea to have the huge guy that just had microfracture surgery bulk up immediately after.
> 
> Way back when there was no bigger Bowie fan than me. But even I couldn't believe that Portland would take him over Jordan and Barkley. Because his legs were breaking under the strain of high school and college seasons. There was just no way he was going to hold up over an NBA season.


Not sure what you're talking about. I don't remember posting any article and I'm the KING OF THE ARCHIVEZ!

My point was that you're acting like some bumbling doctors is what's caused Oden's woes, when even if they screwed up one knee it doesn't explain him jacking up the other the next season. Guy is just a fated cripple.


----------



## Hibachi!

R-Star said:


> Not a bad addition, although he looked pretty invisible the last while.


Odd because he seemed like the perfect fit for D'Antoni. But he caught fire for a bit (I even had him on my fantasy team for a bit) and then never got any playing time. It's a rough situation for him because he took a pretty substantial pay-cut to go there. His value diminishes greatly. The team falls apart. And now he's going to be making pennies compared to the deal he would have gotten had he signed a multi-year deal with another team.


----------



## Diable

Clippers need someone who can guard big men, that's not Jamison. They have addressed a lot of their problems, but completely ignored the one that is their biggest flaw.


----------



## Jace

Exactly. Not sure who was really available that fits that bill though.



Jamel Irief said:


> Not sure what you're talking about. I don't remember posting any article and I'm the KING OF THE ARCHIVEZ!
> 
> My point was that you're acting like some bumbling doctors is what's caused Oden's woes, when even if they screwed up one knee it doesn't explain him jacking up the other the next season. Guy is just a fated cripple.


Worth mentioning that it's believed the left knee injury came while compensating for a poorly rehabbed right knee, or the other way around, whichever it is. This is known to happen to athletes that come back before balancing their leg strength.


----------



## Hyperion

the fact is that Portland has not let a single to level player leave without crippling them, the knees generally.


----------



## E.H. Munro

Jamel Irief said:


> Not sure what you're talking about. I don't remember posting any article and I'm the KING OF THE ARCHIVEZ!
> 
> My point was that you're acting like some bumbling doctors is what's caused Oden's woes, when even if they screwed up one knee it doesn't explain him jacking up the other the next season. Guy is just a fated cripple.


I think the article that we were arguing about here pointed out everything that went wrong as a result of their decision to proactively use microfracture surgery and have Oden bulk after undergoing it. If I recall his rookie year he was tilting the scales at 290 and eventually worked his way up to 315 or so. 

Ultimately as an approach it was a failure. I mean after the fact we know that they were wrong and that Oden shouldn't have been bulking up after a preemptive surgery. And it's not like Portland's medical staff has some great and wonderful reputation around the league. In that regard they're the Boston Red Sox of the NBA.


----------



## RollWithEm

> New York's top free-agent priority remains Beno Udrih, according to sources familiar with the team's thinking. They will bring in guard Bobby Brown for a workout in New York on Wednesday, a league source said. The Knicks showed interest in Brown earlier in the summer, working out the former EuroLeague standout in Las Vegas.


ESPN.com

I had been hearing Brown was their prime target. Udrih's personality doesn't necessarily mesh well with the rest of that roster.


----------



## Hibachi!

If Beno is their prime target what the hell is taking so long? Is he mulling through the giant list of people that want him?


----------



## Bogg

Hibachi! said:


> If Beno is their prime target what the hell is taking so long? Is he mulling through the giant list of people that want him?


I'm pretty sure Udrih is still holding out hope of getting a bi-annual or mini-mid level exception from someone under the logic that he can _always_ sign a veteran's minimum deal somewhere.


----------



## kbdullah

Woj is tweeting that Mo Williams is headed to Portland on a two-year deal. I thought Memphis was supposed to get Mo? He would've been a good fit there.


----------



## Hibachi!

kbdullah said:


> Woj is tweeting that Mo Williams is headed to Portland on a two-year deal. I thought Memphis was supposed to get Mo? He would've been a good fit there.


Portland? Yuck. The Heat should have offered their mid-level to him. He was a good player last year despite injuries.


----------



## e-monk

whuh?


----------



## RollWithEm

Is that Mo to Portland thing official?


----------



## kbdullah

RollWithEm said:


> Is that Mo to Portland thing official?





> Free-agent guard Mo Williams has reached agreement with the Portland Trail Blazers on a two-year, $5.6 million contract, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.
> 
> The second year of the contract is at Williams' option.
> 
> Williams, 30, averaged 12.9 points and 6.2 assists in 46 games for the Utah Jazz last season.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--trail-blazers-signing-mo-williams-182421859.html


----------



## doctordrizzay

Portland loading up that bench.


----------



## RollWithEm

Portland is now officially one of the lock playoff teams in the West in my mind. That makes 7 of them. Barring catastrophic injuries, a lot of teams will be fighting for that 8th spot.


----------



## l0st1

What's Portland looking like now?

Starting 5 of : Lillard, Matthews, Batum, LMA, Lopez. With a bench of Leonard, McCollum, Mo Williams, Wright.... Did I forget anyone important? Either way that's a hell of a lot better than last years team. Assuming Batum and Matthews stay healthy this year they are a pretty nicely set up team. LMA is their oldest core player I think?


----------



## Hibachi!

l0st1 said:


> What's Portland looking like now?
> 
> Starting 5 of : Lillard, Matthews, Batum, LMA, Lopez. With a bench of Leonard, McCollum, Mo Williams, Wright.... Did I forget anyone important? Either way that's a hell of a lot better than last years team. Assuming Batum and Matthews stay healthy this year they are a pretty nicely set up team. LMA is their oldest core player I think?


What's so much better about their team than last year?


----------



## RollWithEm

You forgot Allen Crabbe and Thomas Robinson.

Their bench is significantly improved. That would be the worst bench in the entire NBA by almost every advanced stat last season. Going from worst to middle-of-the-pack should be an instant gain of at least 5 to 7 wins. Factor in the improvement of Lillard, and I think they're a playoff lock.


----------



## Diable

I don't know about lock, but they should be a lot better. The lack of depth was really fatal for them last year. Even when they were healthy they had to play their starters huge minutes and if anyone got hurt it was a total catastrophe as they had nowhere to turn.


----------



## l0st1

Hibachi! said:


> What's so much better about their team than last year?


They have size at the C position(Hickson was good last year but not a true C in my opinion). Actually having a bench is pretty big step forward, don't you think?


I don't know much about Crabbe but I always liked T.Rob hoping he gets it together. I wouldn't say playoff lock but I think they have a pretty damn good chance.

Thunder, Spurs, Clippers, Warriors, Rockets, Grizzlies are the locks. That leaves 2 spots open, I think most likely options are Twolves and Blazers. With the Pelicans having a very slim chance at making it.


----------



## RollWithEm

l0st1 said:


> Thunder, Spurs, Clippers, Warriors, Rockets, Grizzlies are the locks. That leaves 2 spots open, I think most likely options are Twolves and Blazers. With the Pelicans having a very slim chance at making it.


I would add the Blazers to a rock solid top 7 with Dallas, New Orleans, Minnesota, and possibly the Lakers vying for that 8th slot.


----------



## l0st1

RollWithEm said:


> I would add the Blazers to a rock solid top 7 with Dallas, New Orleans, Minnesota, and possibly the Lakers vying for that 8th slot.


You're that confident in the Blazers? They are awfully young and inexperienced. Lillard, McCollum, Crabbe, Leonard, Robinson are all very young and playing pretty important roles.


----------



## Dee-Zy

Yeah, not sold on the lock either but I don't know Portland very well. 

Curious to see.


----------



## hobojoe

Batum played with a wrist injury and a shoulder injury that severely limited him almost all year. He was a stud at the beginning of the season until the injuries, I expect great things from him now that he's recovered.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Dee-Zy

True, I remember that, but I don't see any special production from Matthews and Lopez. I know his brother is playing well but he didn't seem to have much of an impact so far, unless it's the Suns that just didn't use him well.

As for the bench, I like Wright, but everybody else seems forgettable. Except Mo Will I guess...

If they perform well or if they are a lock, I think it hangs on Lillard playing like a young CP3 or some shit...


----------



## Bogg

Dee-Zy said:


> True, I remember that, but I don't see any special production from Matthews and Lopez. I know his brother is playing well but he didn't seem to have much of an impact so far, unless it's the Suns that just didn't use him well.
> 
> As for the bench, I like Wright, but everybody else seems forgettable. Except Mo Will I guess...
> 
> If they perform well or if they are a lock, I think it hangs on Lillard playing like a young CP3 or some shit...


You don't really need anything special out of Matthews, Lopez, or the bench for Portland to make the playoffs. They need Aldridge to play like an all-star (almost a lock) and Lillard to at least repeat his rookie year performance (likely) and they have their two headliners. Nobody on the bench needs to challenge for the sixth man award, they just need to be better than Nolan Smith and Joel Freeland, which isn't asking much.


----------



## RollWithEm

Brian Windhorst said:


> Knicks have agreed to terms with PG Beno Udrih for $1.27M, according to sources. Knicks payroll with luxury is now $119,800,137


Twitter @WindhorstESPN

I guess it's official. Knicks' international flare is rising.


----------



## l0st1

Dee-Zy said:


> True, I remember that, but I don't see any special production from Matthews and Lopez. I know his brother is playing well but he didn't seem to have much of an impact so far, unless it's the Suns that just didn't use him well.
> 
> As for the bench, I like Wright, but everybody else seems forgettable. Except Mo Will I guess...
> 
> If they perform well or if they are a lock, I think it hangs on Lillard playing like a young CP3 or some shit...


As a Suns fan... I don't even know if we take blame for FroLo. He has a lot of hustle, he is pretty quick down the court for a big guy, he can block shots, he had spurts of pretty good offensive game. Kind of similar to Varejao. But he also makes a lot of really stupid plays, fouls WAY to often and commits some pretty dumb fouls.

He has talent to be a solid starting Center but needs to find some consistency. Even in NOH last year he had games of like 20 and 12 with 3 blocks then 3 straight games of 4 and 7. Head scratching.


----------



## Jace

Is Prigioni still on the Knicks?


----------



## Jamel Irief

I'm sorry but I'm not close to convinced that Portland will be better than Minnesota next season.

Hell as a trio Lillard, Batum and Aldridge aren't even better than Nash, Kobe and Gasol.


----------



## R-Star

Jamel Irief said:


> I'm sorry but I'm not close to convinced that Portland will be better than Minnesota next season.
> 
> Hell as a trio Lillard, Batum and Aldridge aren't even better than Nash, Kobe and Gasol.


Debateable if you take health into account. Even if Kobe comes back 100%, Nash is a pretty big question mark at this point.


----------



## Jamel Irief

I agree its debatable. Which is why I have a hard time calling Portland a playoff lock. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## R-Star

I don't think many agree with that playoff lock call. 7-8 seed contender? Sure. Lock? I don't see it.


----------



## hobojoe

Portland is nowhere close to a lock to make the playoffs. Even with Batum healthy they're at best in the hunt for the last two spots. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Jace

OKC
SA
LAC
HOU
GS
MEM
DEN

All seem likely. That's 7. After that I'd say it's between them, Minny, and a surprise team or two. Hardly a lock.


----------



## Jamel Irief

Jace said:


> OKC
> SA
> LAC
> HOU
> GS
> MEM
> DEN
> 
> All seem likely. That's 7. After that I'd say it's between them, Minny, and a surprise team or two. Hardly a lock.


Is Denver a lock? Replacing iggy and dofus with Robinson and foye? No more Karl? I wouldn't be shocked if they missed it. 


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----------



## Jace

I wouldn't call them a lock, but I still think they're likely. Still a talented roster. If Gallo gets back well I'd bank on them getting there.


----------



## RollWithEm

Jace said:


> OKC
> SA
> LAC
> HOU
> GS
> MEM
> DEN
> 
> All seem likely. That's 7. After that I'd say it's between them, Minny, and a surprise team or two. Hardly a lock.


I think Denver has very little chance of making the playoffs.


----------



## Diable

I can wait to see what Denver looks like on the court. If Scott does a good job they'll be in it for the last couple of spots. They could easily fall off a lot though.



EDIT>>>Shaw does a good job, blah


----------



## RollWithEm

The downgrade from Iggy to Randy Foye is a major one IMO. Also, going from George Karl to a rookie coach will be felt.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

The "locked" 4 in the west are the Spurs, Thunder, Grizzlies and Clippers. In the next class of two are the Rockets and Warriors, who have potential to be as good as anyone, but people may be jumping the gun with them. I might even lump Minnesota with Houston and Golden State as talented teams on paper that need to prove it on the court.


----------



## Pablo5

Jace said:


> Is Prigioni still on the Knicks?


Yes. Last update I saw he was.


----------



## l0st1

Sir Patchwork said:


> The "locked" 4 in the west are the Spurs, Thunder, Grizzlies and Clippers. In the next class of two are the Rockets and Warriors, who have potential to be as good as anyone, but people may be jumping the gun with them. I might even lump Minnesota with Houston and Golden State as talented teams on paper that need to prove it on the court.




I may agree that those 4 teams are likely the top 4 t western teams, but I'm not sure how you don't think Warriors and Rockets are locks. Barring a major Stephen Curry or Andrew Bogut injury Warriors WILL make the playoffs, not saying they will be a top team but they are a playoff team. And the Rockets made it last year without Dwight. And I think he fits this situation a hell of a lot better than he fit the LAL situation. Sure they both have to prove it but I think they are both locked into playoff positioning(since we are judging it off of the information we have right now which is injury free + Iggy for GS and chemistry + Dwight for HOU).

I really like Minnys team, wish they had kept AK47. And if Pek ends up blowing his chance by being greedy I hope Minny comes knocking on PHX's door for Gortat


----------



## RollWithEm

Jared Zwerling said:


> Source: #Knicks have interest in Lou Amundson to add depth to frontcourt. Few other teams in mix. Lou is hoping to make decision next week.


Twitter @JaredZwerling


----------



## RollWithEm

Do yourself a favor and type nets.com into your browser.


----------



## Sir Patchwork

l0st1 said:


> I may agree that those 4 teams are likely the top 4 t western teams, but I'm not sure how you don't think Warriors and Rockets are locks. Barring a major Stephen Curry or Andrew Bogut injury Warriors WILL make the playoffs, not saying they will be a top team but they are a playoff team. And the Rockets made it last year without Dwight. And I think he fits this situation a hell of a lot better than he fit the LAL situation. Sure they both have to prove it but I think they are both locked into playoff positioning(since we are judging it off of the information we have right now which is injury free + Iggy for GS and chemistry + Dwight for HOU).
> 
> I really like Minnys team, wish they had kept AK47. And if Pek ends up blowing his chance by being greedy I hope Minny comes knocking on PHX's door for Gortat


I don't disagree with much of what you say. I just think it's worth making a distinction between teams that _will_ make the playoffs because their style of play is familiar and established over years, and teams that are hopeful and promising because of their talent level but still unproven and haven't necessarily worked out style of play issues.


----------



## kbdullah

RollWithEm said:


> Do yourself a favor and type nets.com into your browser.


This might actually deserve it's own thread hahaha.



> Somebody was having a little fun at the Nets’ expense Friday morning.
> 
> Ever since the Celtics sent Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett and Jason Terry to Brooklyn, some people have jokingly referred to the new squad as the “Brooklyn Celtics.” On the flip side, with three of the Nets’ future first-round draft picks heading north, the green team of the future could be called the “Boston Nets.”
> 
> Somebody took the joke online, where typing “nets.com” into an Internet browser brought up the Celtics’ official website.
> 
> As of noon Friday, “nets.com” was still navigating to “celtics.com.” Although “nets.com” is not the Brooklyn Nets’ preferred URL — they advertise “brooklynnets.com,” while the NBA’s standard format for all its teams is “nba.com/(team name)” — whoever went looking for info on the new-look Nets was due for a humorous surprise.


http://nesn.com/2013/08/typing-nets-com-into-internet-browser-brings-up-celtics-website-screenshot/


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## Jamel Irief

Sir Patchwork said:


> The "locked" 4 in the west are the Spurs, Thunder, Grizzlies and Clippers. In the next class of two are the Rockets and Warriors, who have potential to be as good as anyone, but people may be jumping the gun with them. I might even lump Minnesota with Houston and Golden State as talented teams on paper that need to prove it on the court.


What was the gap between the Grizzlies and Warriors? Like 6 wins? Has one gotten noticably better and the other stayed relatively the same? I actually think Zbo's going to continue a steady decline.


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## kbdullah

IMO, only locks to make the playoffs in the West are the teams that made it last year and either held pat or got better. To me, that's San Antonio, Golden State, Clippers, Houston, and Memphis. Everyone else just ranges from strong chance to little chance.


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## Jamel Irief

kbdullah said:


> IMO, only locks to make the playoffs in the West are the teams that made it last year and either held pat or got better. To me, that's San Antonio, Golden State, Clippers, Houston, and Memphis. Everyone else just ranges from strong chance to little chance.


Without Durant or Westbrook missing half the season, I'll bet you 100 to 1 odds OKC makes the playoffs. They miss you send me a dollar, they make it I send you 100. Deal?


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## Sir Patchwork

Jamel Irief said:


> What was the gap between the Grizzlies and Warriors? Like 6 wins? Has one gotten noticably better and the other stayed relatively the same? I actually think Zbo's going to continue a steady decline.


I'm just weary of teams that dipped into the playoffs one time and labeling them locks. I would probably predict the Warriors to be a higher seed than Memphis, but I think Memphis is more of a "lock" to make the playoffs than Golden State. I know that probably doesn't make any sense.


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## RollWithEm

Jared Zwerling said:


> Source confirms Wizards are leading candidate to sign Al Harrington. Likely happen this week. Clippers, Kings and Pelicans showed interest.


Twitter @JaredZwerling


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## RollWithEm

> On Monday, the Lakers let their final asset from the Dwight Howard trade slip away. The team's $1.2-million trade exception for Christian Eyenga, a throw-in to the Orlando Magic as part of the four-team trade, expired a full year after the initial blockbuster deal.


Los Angeles Times

And I guess that officially close an ugly chapter in Lakers lore.


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## E.H. Munro

It won't officially close until they ship Nash out for expiring salary mid season.


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## Diable

RollWithEm said:


> Los Angeles Times
> 
> And I guess that officially close an ugly chapter in Lakers lore.


The Lakers still finished second in that trade. At the least they didn't end up stuck with Bynum on a Max deal. No one really ended up with anything except for Orlando. Iggy is in GSW, Bynum is in Cleveland and Howard is in Houston. Philadelphia loses because they actually gave up stuff that ended up having value.


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## Bogg

Diable said:


> The Lakers still finished second in that trade. At the least they didn't end up stuck with Bynum on a Max deal. No one really ended up with anything except for Orlando. Iggy is in GSW, Bynum is in Cleveland and Howard is in Houston. Philadelphia loses because they actually gave up stuff that ended up having value.


I said it at the time, but the Lakers were foolish for refusing to give up Bynum back when Denver was shopping Carmelo. I seem to remember that Denver was willing to swap them straight up.


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## Pablo5

Bogg said:


> I said it at the time, but the Lakers were foolish for refusing to give up Bynum back when Denver was shopping Carmelo. I seem to remember that Denver was willing to swap them straight up.


Hmmmm, Melo in the same system with Kobe? Two ball hogging mofo's, and only one ball.


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## Jace

Re: Denver: I was big on Iggy, and think they'll miss him more than some were indicating. Not impressed at all with their offseason, but I still have a trouble not seeing them at least getting the 8th seed.


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## RollWithEm

Mary Schmitt Boyer/Jodie Valade said:


> Hearing #Cavs are interested in bringing former Georgetown forward Henry Sims (7-0, 245) to training camp, but nothing finalized yet.


Twitter @PDcavsinsider

Looks like news has officially slowed down to a crawl on the free agency front when the lead story this morning is Henry Sims.


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## R-Star

Ivan Johnson remains unsigned. I didn't get to see a ton of him, but what I saw of him against the Pacers, he looked like a solid big to have on the bench. I'm surprised no ones given him any sort of minimum contract at this point.


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## Dee-Zy

Jamel Irief said:


> Without Durant or Westbrook missing half the season, I'll bet you 100 to 1 odds OKC makes the playoffs. They miss you send me a dollar, they make it I send you 100. Deal?


This.


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## RollWithEm

Adrian Wojnarowski said:


> Detroit has reached agreement with forward Josh Harrellson on a one-year, partially guaranteed deal, league source tells Y! Sports.


Twitter @WojYahooNBA


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## Bogg

R-Star said:


> Ivan Johnson remains unsigned. I didn't get to see a ton of him, but what I saw of him against the Pacers, he looked like a solid big to have on the bench. I'm surprised no ones given him any sort of minimum contract at this point.


I think he's more than a little bit crazy, so teams are a bit wary of him, even though he's a useful roleplayer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he's banned for life from the Korean league.


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## Diable

Johnson has a history of anger issues. He got the lifetime ban for using one of his digits to suggest that the lead referee should check out some warmer environs.


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## Hibachi!

Diable said:


> Johnson has a history of anger issues. He got the lifetime ban for using one of his digits to suggest that the lead referee should check out some warmer environs.


That's it? Really?


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## Bogg

Hibachi! said:


> That's it? Really?


The Koreans are a very polite people. They're like Canadians, but with personal computers instead of bears.


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## 29380

> The Memphis Grizzlies traded guard Tony Wroten, a 2012 first-round NBA draft pick, to the Philadelphia 76ers for a future second-round selection, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--grizzlies-trade-2012-first-round-pick-tony-wroten-to-76ers-192040315.html


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## RollWithEm

I hope Wroten actually gets minutes in Philly. I've always wanted to know what he could do with some PT.


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## RollWithEm

WarriorsWorld said:


> Hearing that Seth Curry is signing with the Warriors tomorrow.


#Warriors Twitter

The Curry brothers have united just like the Morris brothers.


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## Jamel Irief

If Seth Curry makes the team he'll be the second Big South NBA player in history (Reggie Williams).


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## doctordrizzay

I watched Seth last year...he can shoot, it would be neat seeing them both on the floor firing 3s


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## Diable

Seth is a good player, but he has bad wheels. If he had been healthy last year he likely would have been getting some buzz as a college basketball player of the year. He was playing incredibly well before he got banged up and didn't practice most of the year because of it.


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## RollWithEm

Diable said:


> Seth is a good player, but he has bad wheels.


Same could be said for Steph.


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## Jace

I doubt they'd ever share the court doc.


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## NOFX22

Antoine Jamison signs with clippers


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## Jamel Irief

NOFX22 said:


> Antoine Jamison signs with clippers


Little brother continues their tradition of signing laker rejects. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## 29380

*Bucks and Suns engaged in trade talks to send Caron Butler to Milwaukee
*


> According to multiple sources, the Bucks and Phoenix Suns are seriously engaged in trade negotiations that would bring Butler to the Bucks.
> 
> Although exact details of the potential trade aren’t known, Butler, the former Park High School standout, would be the central figure in the deal that could be culminated as soon as today.
> 
> Butler will be paid nearly $8 million next season, so the Bucks would likely have to give the Suns some sort of combination involving players and draft picks. It is believed the Bucks wouldn’t surrender any of their frontline players.


----------



## Hyperion

Good trade for the Suns. Offload his salary, he's not a part of the rebuild, no point to keeping him


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## RollWithEm

Hyperion said:


> Good trade for the Suns. Offload his salary, he's not a part of the rebuild, no point to keeping him


It'll probably just be second round picks, right? No way the Bucks give up a first rounder for Caron Butler, right?


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## Diable

Ish Smith and some guy I never heard of are going to PHX


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## roux

He us the guy i never heard of that we got from detroit in the jennings deal, we were apparently going to cut him so i wouldnt be shocked if he never wears a suns uniform. Ish has a guaranteed contract though and the suns already have like 4 or 5 pgs on their roster ao they may not be done yet.


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## Bogg

Kravtsov is a big Ukranian center who got buried behind Drummond in his rookie year. He _looks_ like he should be a decent backup, but hasn't gotten a chance to show anything.


----------



## RollWithEm

> Khalif Wyatt will become a 76er. The undrafted rookie free agent out of Temple agreed to terms Thursday night to play for his hometown team. He will sign a partially guaranteed, mutli-year contract on Friday.


via the Philadelphia Inquirer​


----------



## 29380

> @SteveBHoop
> Sources: Competition Committee votes unanimously to return NBA Finals to 2-2-1-1-1 format. Owners' approval to come.


...


----------



## Dissonance

That's new thread worthy.


----------



## Hibachi!

Ender said:


> ...


Wow that is fantastic.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

Excellent!!


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## RollWithEm

Until the owners officially approve the new format, I won't believe it's going to happen... even though it's about a decade past due.


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## RollWithEm

RollWithEm said:


> Portland is now officially one of the lock playoff teams in the West in my mind. That makes 7 of them. Barring catastrophic injuries, a lot of teams will be fighting for that 8th spot.





RollWithEm said:


> You forgot Allen Crabbe and Thomas Robinson.
> 
> Their bench is significantly improved. That would be the worst bench in the entire NBA by almost every advanced stat last season. Going from worst to middle-of-the-pack should be an instant gain of at least 5 to 7 wins. Factor in the improvement of Lillard, and I think they're a playoff lock.





RollWithEm said:


> I would add the Blazers to a rock solid top 7 with Dallas, New Orleans, Minnesota, and possibly the Lakers vying for that 8th slot.


Hmmm...


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## Bogg

RollWithEm said:


> Hmmm...


Still only November, but Portland does look good. We'll see if they can keep it up.


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## Diable

I am hoping that they are the 13th best team in the league record wise. So they need to start losing, but in moderation


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## RollWithEm

Bogg said:


> Still only November, but Portland does look good. We'll see if they can keep it up.


We sure will.


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## kbdullah

All of Portland's wins in their current streak came against teams below .500 though. They're a good team, but that amounts to anywhere b/w the fifth and tenth best record out West.


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## RollWithEm

kbdullah said:


> All of Portland's wins in their current streak came against teams below .500 though. They're a good team, but that amounts to anywhere b/w the fifth and tenth best record out West.


I'm banking on 7th.


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## hroz

Dallas looks good if they got a solid defensive centre they would be contenders in my mind. 
That's the respect I have for Dirk.


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