# R.I.P our playoff drive



## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

-Bosh done for the year

-Hedo may be done, Wright is hurt also

-Bulls beat the cavs to pull into a tie and will likely beat us on sunday

-Going into this final stretch I don't see to many positives


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

The East is so pathetic I still think we back into the playoffs due to the tiebreak. CHI did everything they could to give the Cavs multiple shots to beat them tonight without Lebron.

If they beat NJ tomorrow that only puts them up a game, assuming we get rocked in ATL (who have not been playing well of late).

Not sure the Bulls can continue scoring at a high enough pace to win consistently. We could still beat them without Bosh and Turk.

And even if the Raps lose that game they have a good chance of beating NY and DET while CHI has tougher games with BOS and CHA. A possible tie.

Getting into the POs at least gives guys like DD and Weems and Amir some exposure to playing in that atmosphere. That is the only small positive from it.

A remote shot at winning the draft lottery might be preferable and have greater long term impact.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Now that I think about it, I wonder if the Magic Dice that Devlin rolled in CLE sealed our fate?????

Some crazy little pink dice thing they were giving out there. Matt rolls it and it comes up 6. Jack says that's how many games the Raps have left. Then Jack says 'can it also tell us how many wins the Raps will get' or something like that and Matt rolls again.........Silence.......really awkward silence for a few seconds, and then they refuse to say what the Magic Dice predicted, just that it was not good.

90% chance it was a 1
10% it was a 2

That was a very odd, yet entertaining, little moment.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

I think the team being littered with pansies sealed our fate long before any dice decided to laugh at us.


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## NeoSamurai (Jan 16, 2003)

I wouldnt want to see this team in the playoffs. 

They may average a losing deficit of like 15 points per night.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

first of all, i feel it too. it seems like we're done. like the offseason's already upon us. but that's sort of the problem- not that we're done, but that we _think_ we are. our confidence as fans has become so fragile, i can only imagine how bad it is in that locker room. 

think about it: at the beginning of the season, this team was being praised for not having to rely on chris so much anymore. we had the depth to overcome a bad injury... "finally!" 

the same team is out there tonight. and we couldn't feel more different about them, could we? weird how things change. 

but who knows... they could change again. they just need to start making some plays. they need to realize (again) how good they can be and stop hanging their heads. had they been blessed with even the tiniest sliver of resolve, they could do it. but had they been blessed with even the tiniest sliver of resolve, they probably wouldn't even be in this position. 

peace


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

ballocks said:


> first of all, i feel it too. it seems like we're done. like the offseason's already upon us.
> think about it: at the beginning of the season, this team was being praised for not having to rely on chris so much anymore. we had the depth to overcome a bad injury... "finally!"
> 
> the same team is out there tonight. and we couldn't feel more different about them, could we? weird how things change.
> ...


The level of confusion in your post mirrors my own confusion about this team during the course of the year. I wondered aloud if the 'successful' run was real or just the easy schedule and some good luck. I was not seeing any real improvement in any individual games but the record over a fairly long stretch caused me to question my judgement. Not any more.

The truth is they were never any good and were never going to be any good unless Turk and Bargs played with intensity and the whole team played D. Those were the 2 key starters in question. DD was going to be raw, but not hurt us much. The verdict is in on both Turk and Bargs and it isn't good for the Raps or for BC who put so much faith in both assets. Also the entire team has failed to buy into the focus on D that Triano tried to instill since training camp.

You answered your own questions with the last line of your post: "had they been blessed with even the tiniest sliver of resolve, they probably wouldn't even be in this position." Just remove the 'probably' and you have it dead on.

Turk needs a coach that constantly pushes him to produce. Not sure what Bargs needs. Just some heart or balls I guess.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

i sound like a broken record because i was saying this in the offseason that we really should just throw derozan, weems, and johnson in the fire. bargnani looks like he's reached he's ceiling and his shooting has regressed(though to his credit, his rebounding and defense has improved).

raptors future is really dependent on their young core. if all their young guys develop and they pick up a few new pieces in the draft, that's how they can become relevant again.


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## Punk (Feb 4, 2010)

It's unfortunate since this team is great when they all are on the same page. I honestly felt before the All Star break that the Raptors were very close to entertaining the same sort of transformation the Cavaliers took when they became a legitimate Eastern Threat.

They have great PGs, a deep SG/SF lineup but Bosh has to carry them on the boards and low post scoring. Now, he's gone and Hedo has been disappointing....It's just sad to see my favorite go down like this.

*Hopes for a Bull's loss to NJ*


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## changv10 (Apr 25, 2005)

Incredibly, New Jersey DID beat Chicago in 2OT. We are both going on sunday's game with a 38-41 record. HUGE game, will be playoff-intensive for sure.


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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Should be a good game between two bad teams. Neither fan base is exactly proud of their team right now.

Neither deserves to be in the playoffs. Should just give the 8 seed to the 9th team in the West.

If Raps win they get in unless they lose both of its last 2 games and CHI wins both.

If CHI wins they still need to match how many wins Raps get over last 2. That loss in NJ was a huge blow to them.


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

Is it even worth the playoffs? I mean we'll be going against the Cavs and we lose our tiny shot at the big draft prize. I'm not sure I care either way.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

lucky777s said:


> Should be a good game between two bad teams. Neither fan base is exactly proud of their team right now.


As a Bulls fan, I can say this is 110% accurate, lol.



> Neither deserves to be in the playoffs. Should just give the 8 seed to the 9th team in the West.


Well, "deserves" is all relative. I mean, both teams have had their share of injuries (the Raptors more recently, while the Bulls have been missing key players off and on all season, esp. missing Rose/Noah/Deng on their 10-game losing streak). 

It's not that either team is bad per say; I actually think if both were at full strength, then Charlotte, MIA, or MIL would be the odd man out. It just so happens that all 3 of those teams have been pretty healthy all year, at least up until Bogut got injured. 



> If Raps win they get in unless they lose both of its last 2 games and CHI wins both.
> 
> If CHI wins they still need to match how many wins Raps get over last 2. That loss in NJ was a huge blow to them.


The NJ game wasn't just about losing, but it's those types of losses where you seriously doubt how capable your players are of doing anything meaningful. I mean, Deng and Hinrich were ghosts in late regulation and OT. Rose can't hit a clutch FT to save his life. 

So anyway, it should be interesting -- at this point I really don't care if the Bulls get in, they are gonna get stomped by Cleveland. They had far more going for them at this point last year, hence that great series w/ Boston...


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Porn_Player said:


> Is it even worth the playoffs? I mean we'll be going against the Cavs and we lose our tiny shot at the big draft prize. I'm not sure I care either way.


This is how I feel about the Bulls. At this point I really don't care, they aren't getting it together anytime soon. 

I'd feel differently if we had kept Salmons and Tyrus Thomas (the Flip Murray and Hakim Warrick acquisitions are major downgrades), but the Bulls felt cap space was more important.

I kinda like this not caring thing to be honest, makes the games way less stressful.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

i wouldn't be surprised if bosh leaves, in which case i can definitely see the raptors marketing weems as our next star player. the way he's been playing has been reminiscent of our former star wing players VC and TMAC. weems has to bring this every night for an entire season to even be considered comparable to those two, but certainly for the past few games, he's been playing extremely well.

think how good he would have been if we didn't sign turkoglu? think all those extra games/minutes to develop weems. i mean it looks like we're going to miss the playoffs anyway. so why did we bother paying hedo again?


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

Porn_Player said:


> Is it even worth the playoffs? I mean we'll be going against the Cavs and we lose our tiny shot at the big draft prize. I'm not sure I care either way.


This year draft suppose to be a weak one anyways thats if you believe the analysts


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

John Wall, Evan Turner, Cousins plus a few more could change the face of this franchise completely. I think I'd rather be in with a shot at one of these than receive a four game spanking off the Cavs.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

this year's draft is supposed to be deep i thought? last year's draft was supposed to be crap but turned out quite good. in fact they were the first rookie class to beat the sophomore class in quite some time.

john wall, evan turner, and cousins will all make a big difference for their teams.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

If we don't make the playoffs we still only have like a 1% chance to get the top 3 picks.

Chances are we'll just get the 12th pick and end up with a scrub. What a wasted season.

The thing that I'm worried about is the future first round pick that we owe to Miami. If Bosh leaves and the team decides to rebuild we might suck all the way to 2015 and at that time that pick would be unprotected. I would rather we just sneak in this year's draft and give them that instead and be done with it.


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## Punk (Feb 4, 2010)

seifer0406 said:


> If we don't make the playoffs we still only have like a 1% chance to get the top 3 picks.


Not really. Chicago had a similar record to Toronto back in 2008 and they still got the #1 pick.

Toronto still has a great chance at Cousins.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

seifer0406 said:


> If we don't make the playoffs we still only have like a 1% chance to get the top 3 picks.
> 
> Chances are we'll just get the 12th pick and end up with a scrub. What a wasted season.
> 
> The thing that I'm worried about is the future first round pick that we owe to Miami. If Bosh leaves and the team decides to rebuild we might suck all the way to 2015 and at that time that pick would be unprotected. I would rather we just sneak in this year's draft and give them that instead and be done with it.


i totally agree. i still don't know if bosh is going to go anywhere, and i don't expect to 'rebuild' even if he does, but i still want to dump the pick on miami _now_.

i hate conditional draft picks. i've always hated them.  the lamond murray one was a disaster, imo. when i heard the miami one was conditional, i almost lost my mind. imo, that was the worst part of the JO deal- not that they moved a pick, but that it was protected. listen, it took years for the raptors to free themselves from the lamond murray pick- and pretty much as soon as they did, colangelo decides to tie his hands again with another one? i couldn't believe it.

for those who don't know, in the nba you can't have two of your own, consecutive future 1st-rounders in the possession of other teams. for example, if you trade away your 2014 1st round pick, you can't trade your 2013 or 2015 picks before their respective drafts. those 'assets' are frozen.

this is bad enough. but with conditionals, it's even worse because *you don't know when your pick is going to go*. if you trade away a conditional pick that is partly protected through 2015, for example, you can't trade _any_ of your other picks (2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2016) until that conditional one is gone. in a sense, your maneuvering when it comes to trades is limited to players you already have- because you can't use your draft picks (like so many other teams do) to close any deals.

i honestly don't care who's in the draft or what infinitesimal chance the raptors would have of winning the lotto. they need to get rid of that pick so they can move on- in whatever direction- without having their hands tied anymore. 

peace


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

Punk said:


> Not really. Chicago had a similar record to Toronto back in 2008 and they still got the #1 pick.
> 
> Toronto still has a great chance at Cousins.


The record has nothing to do with your chances of getting the top 3 pick, that's not how the lottery works.

If we miss the playoffs we will be the 12th worst team in the league, which gives us 0.7% chance to get the #1 pick, 0.8% to get the #2, and 1% chance to get the #3 pick.

So even if Chicago was the 12th worst team that year they still only had less than 1% chance to win the lottery. Not saying it's impossible but I wouldn't bank on us getting any of the big names of this draft. Which makes this season even more frustrating.


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## Mr_B (Mar 6, 2004)

Excuse me while I sprinkle rose pedals over the grave of the 09/10 Raps .....so many question marks around this team right now


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## billfindlay10 (Jan 24, 2003)

c_dog said:


> i wouldn't be surprised if bosh leaves, in which case i can definitely see the raptors marketing weems as our next star player. the way he's been playing has been reminiscent of our former star wing players VC and TMAC. weems has to bring this every night for an entire season to even be considered comparable to those two, but certainly for the past few games, he's been playing extremely well.
> 
> think how good he would have been if we didn't sign turkoglu? think all those extra games/minutes to develop weems. i mean it looks like we're going to miss the playoffs anyway. so why did we bother paying hedo again?


Gear down big rig, Weems is not a star player, nor will he ever be. He can be a good player in this league, but he will need to bring much more to the table than he does right now to even get to a solid role player status. He has a decent mid-range game and has shown some defensive ability, but we are not looking at OJ Mayo or Eric Gordon, we are looking at a guy who is getting the chance due to a mediocre rookie and injuries to potential starters. We like him because he had no hype coming in and has been good (see Moon year 1 with TO), but he to me is no better than Joey Graham, just younger with potential upside. 

If we are back in the lottery I hope we strike gold with our 11th pick, we are due for a draft where we get lucky and our pick out produces where they are drafted....see guys like Joe Johnson as a 10th pick, or Maggette and Richard Jefferson as 13th picks.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

but this is a joke. we've been talking about how this team is dead for the last 2-3 weeks... maybe longer... but does anyone realize how easy it still is to make the playoffs- beat detroit & new york (combined 54-106) and hope chicago loses to *one of* boston, charlotte (combined 93-67)?

this has gotta be the longest funeral procession of all-time. and to think: our heart is still beating. if we weren't so disillusioned by how this season has gone, we could realize that we're still alive. big time.

we just give up, though. that's the point. we're so used to waving the white flag, on the court and off, that now we're doing it prematurely. if the raptors' self-_esteem_ wasn't so clouded by self-_pity_, they might realize that they're still favored to make the playoffs even as we're sitting here today. 

so where's the leadership to shine the light? who knows. same question we've been asking for years. this team loves to cry.

peace


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

Punk said:


> Not really. Chicago had a similar record to Toronto back in 2008 and they still got the #1 pick.
> 
> Toronto still has a great chance at Cousins.


Um. No they don't.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

billfindlay10 said:


> Gear down big rig, Weems is not a star player, nor will he ever be. He can be a good player in this league, but he will need to bring much more to the table than he does right now to even get to a solid role player status. He has a decent mid-range game and has shown some defensive ability, but we are not looking at OJ Mayo or Eric Gordon, we are looking at a guy who is getting the chance due to a mediocre rookie and injuries to potential starters. We like him because he had no hype coming in and has been good (see Moon year 1 with TO), but he to me is no better than Joey Graham, just younger with potential upside.
> 
> If we are back in the lottery I hope we strike gold with our 11th pick, we are due for a draft where we get lucky and our pick out produces where they are drafted....see guys like Joe Johnson as a 10th pick, or Maggette and Richard Jefferson as 13th picks.


I agree, weems is in no way a "star" player. I like him and think he is effective, but I wouldn't hope for him to be our # 1 option. He is a good player not great. To me, he looks a little rigid compared to other "star" shooting guards.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

mo76 said:


> I agree, weems is in no way a "star" player. I like him and think he is effective, but I wouldn't hope for him to be our # 1 option. He is a good player not great. To me, he looks a little rigid compared to other "star" shooting guards.


nobody is calling him a star player yet. i'm just saying i can see the raps market him as a star player next season. and notice the word *"market"* when i posted it both times. it doesn't necessarily mean he is one or that he is deserving of being one, but that raptors could use his appeal and market him to the fan base.

i mean hey, andrea bargnani, one of the biggest #1 busts in recent years is being stuck our throat as a "superstar", then i don't see why weems can't be marketed as a star wing for us.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)




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## lucky777s (Nov 13, 2003)

Gotta respect the way the Bulls closed out this season. Crushing TOR in Toronto. Then handling the C's. Then going into CHA on the back to back and taking care of business. They earned that 8 spot. Now, can they do anything with it?

Cavs are a powerhouse, but there is a question of how they re-integrate Shaq and Z and keep things flowing. They should cruise by the Bulls in 6 or less.


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## Turkish Delight (Mar 17, 2004)

Triano is a terrible coach and needs to be fired immediately. Guy doesn't get after his players and doesn't hold them accountable. He seems even afraid of confronting his players. Get this ***** out of here.


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