# Most Improved Player?



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

I was discussing this with a friend last night, well he actually asked me "Who do you think, I think, made the biggest improvement this year?"

I actually had to ponder for a moment. I knew he wasn't so big on Perk, loves Al and Delonte, but after a few seconds I answered with "Kendrick Perkins." He agreed and just loves the guy now. In fact, he said "if every team had a couple of guys like him, the NBA would be a lot better."

To cut it short, who do you think is the Most Improved Player on the Celtics this year?

West has also done a remarkable job, but I'd still give the edge to Perk in this.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Delonte.


----------



## Aznboi812 (Nov 9, 2005)

west, but pierce is having tha best season


----------



## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

Delonte hands down, as I mentioned in my article


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

delonte and perk...before this year they were both bums now they r very serviceable players


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> delonte and perk...before this year they were both bums now they r very serviceable players


I would not say bums. Young maybe - but not bums. Blount for example is a bum.

But I give this award to West. For a second year PG he is doing amazing things.


----------



## jimmywolfrey (Jan 17, 2006)

Dwest, could he win the nba award?


----------



## pokpok (Jul 26, 2005)

delonte and maybe gomes


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

Gomes is just finally getting some playing time.


----------



## P-Dub34 (May 19, 2005)

I gotta choose West.


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Delonte won't even be in contention for the MIP award. Just pick a player from the Suns (yes, I know Steve Nash's influence is tremendous, but it doesn't matter as Boris Diaw went from one of the worst players in the league to a good player that any team would absolutely love to have).

It can't be Gomes for MIP for the Celtics as we don't know if he has improved. He hasn't recieved any previous minutes to justify any improvement. For all we know, he may have been able to produce in this fashion since draft-day.


----------



## STUCKEY! (Aug 31, 2005)

Wow who is this Gomes dude i saw him vs the lakers last night and he really impressed me


----------



## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

Premier said:


> Boris Diaw went from one of the worst players in the league to a good player that any team would absolutely love to have.




damn uve come along way from that "boris diaw is awful" comment huh?? lololol


----------



## jimmywolfrey (Jan 17, 2006)

yes Diaw is a good choice...i think west might get a vote or two if he keeps up his scoring ways since Ricky Davis has been traded.


----------



## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

You've got the wrong West. Delonte has improved significantly, but I think David West is the favorite for most improved player.


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Lanteri said:


> Delonte hands down, as I mentioned in my article


you really wrote that?


----------



## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Yeah, Lanteri is the new staff-writer for the Celtics and he is also the new moderator for this forum. Normally, I would start a congratulations thread, but it's just Lanteri. 

I liked Boris Diaw at the time of his draft. I though his ability to play point guard on offense and shooting guard on defense worked well with Jason Terry in Atlanta. While in Atlanta, though, Diaw was truly awful. Motivation after being traded or the luxury of playing with Steve Nash has really improved his game in Phoenix.


----------



## jimmywolfrey (Jan 17, 2006)

oh yeah, forgot about him... i just checked over the teams/rosters ...here are the candidates in my eyes..

Boris Diaw 5 ppg (FG% 42) to 12.5 ppg (FG% 50), APG 2.3 and RPB 2.6 to APG 5.8 and RPG 6.7, .3 bpg to 1.1 bpg
David West 6 ppg and 4 rpg to 17ppg and 8rpg
Delonte West 4.5 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 1.4 apg, .5 spg, .2 bpg to 11.7 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.2 spg, 0.8 bpg, all shooting % categories way up
Mehmet Okur 12.9 ppg to 17.7 ppg
Zaza Pachulia 6 ppg to 11 ppg, 5 rpg to 8 rpg, .6 spg to 1.1 spg
Carmello Anthony 20 ppg to 26 ppg
Kobe Bryant 27 ppg to 35 ppg *all his shooting percentages are up.
Elton Brand 20 ppg to 25.5 ppg * every major stat category is up
Chris Bosh 16 ppg to 22 ppg *he has grown this year
Ricky Davis 16 ppg to 20 ppg * rebounds and assists are up
Mike James 11 ppg to 18 ppg * Shooting %'s and every other stat category up along with the improved play of the Raptors
Dwight Howard 12 ppg to 15ppg, 10 rpg to 13rpg *carrying the load without much help.
Mo Williams (however injuries cost him)
Juan Dixon 8 ppg to 13ppg, every shooting % category up


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

Premier said:


> Yeah, Lanteri is the new staff-writer for the Celtics and *he is also the new moderator for this forum.* Normally, I would start a congratulations thread, but it's just Lanteri.
> 
> I liked Boris Diaw at the time of his draft. I though his ability to play point guard on offense and shooting guard on defense worked well with Jason Terry in Atlanta. While in Atlanta, though, Diaw was truly awful. Motivation after being traded or the luxury of playing with Steve Nash has really improved his game in Phoenix.


ah, just what i need...another person to jump down my throat about masked cursing. :biggrin:


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

I was just talking about the Celtic players. 

Anyway, the reason I'd gave the award to Perk over West is, well because Perk actually had to compete for the Center position and last year he played just a minimum amount of minutes.


----------



## Jermaniac Fan (Jul 27, 2003)

Delonte!!


----------



## jimmywolfrey (Jan 17, 2006)

aquaitious said:


> I was just talking about the Celtic players.
> 
> Anyway, the reason I'd gave the award to Perk over West is, well because Perk actually had to compete for the Center position and last year he played just a minimum amount of minutes.


I think West had to compete more. Perkins just had to beat out really Mark Blount. Lafrentz is more of a forward type player especially offensively. West had to beat out Banks, Dickau, bynum and greene. I can not see how someone who barely knew the point guard position, who was sketchy sometimes last year with the ball turns himself into a playmaker the way Delonte has and not be the most improved player on his team. West has made an amazing improvement even from the beginning of the season as the point guard. It truly is amazing.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

jimmywolfrey said:


> I think West had to compete more. Perkins just had to beat out really Mark Blount. Lafrentz is more of a forward type player especially offensively. West had to beat out Banks, Dickau, bynum and greene. I can not see how someone who barely knew the point guard position, who was sketchy sometimes last year with the ball turns himself into a playmaker the way Delonte has and not be the most improved player on his team. West has made an amazing improvement even from the beginning of the season as the point guard. It truly is amazing.


Dickau - gone after a few games
Bynum - didn't make it into the regular season
Greene - late 2nd round pick
Banks - hated by the coaching staff
West - very much liked for his "safeness"

Perk was competing vs NBA starters in both the PF and C slot.


----------



## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

I'd have to go with Perk. Coming into this year, he was nothing and now he is someone that will be in green for years and years to come. West was hyped, but never got to play regularly because he keep breaking his hand. Perk was forgotten by most entering the season. Now he seems like a guy who will always be remembered.


----------



## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

I've been impressed with Perk's improvement, but kind of expected it being year 3.

West's progression throughout the season was not expected, at least by me anyhow, so he gets my vote!


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

aquaitious said:


> Dickau - gone after a few games
> Bynum - didn't make it into the regular season
> Greene - late 2nd round pick
> Banks - hated by the coaching staff
> ...


what does it matter who West had to or did not have to "beat out"? He still had to step up and perform. Playing time helps - but it does not guarantee the guy is going to perform and play well.


----------



## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Premier said:


> Delonte won't even be in contention for the MIP award. Just pick a player from the Suns (yes, I know Steve Nash's influence is tremendous, but it doesn't matter as Boris Diaw went from one of the worst players in the league to a good player that any team would absolutely love to have).
> 
> It can't be Gomes for MIP for the Celtics as we don't know if he has improved. He hasn't recieved any previous minutes to justify any improvement. For all we know, he may have been able to produce in this fashion since draft-day.


Boris Diaw is nasty


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Causeway said:


> what does it matter who West had to or did not have to "beat out"? He still had to step up and perform. Playing time helps - but it does not guarantee the guy is going to perform and play well.


Getting a "PG" to perform well is much easier than for a Center.

What were your expectations of Perkins coming into the season? I was always biased and thought he'd have a big role, but I did not expect him to start over Raef, Blount and Jefferson.

For West...well Greene was the only other "safe" guy on the roster that could play defense and was not cut.


----------



## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

I hear you Aqua but my vote is not becase West is starting - and his competition was weak. It is because he is playing fantastic hoops. And I am not so sure that "Getting a "PG" to perform well is _much _ easier than for a Center."

Either way - it's nice that we are having this debate and have solid players to debate on.

Thanks again Danny!


----------



## jimmywolfrey (Jan 17, 2006)

Perkins couldn't beat out Blount or Jefferson or LaFrentz until the last few weeks before he got hurt. I think Perkins getting the playing time was more to do with Mark Blount's inability to pass the ball, play defense, not commit turnovers or rebound.

Perkins did it for a couple weeks at a good pace (not a great pace). West has done it ever since he got the concussion and missed one game. That was 30 games ago. He has averaged basically 15 points, 5 boards, 5 assists and 1 steal per game..shooting over 50% from the field and 40% 3's and has close to a 3 to 1 assist to turnover ratio.. since then. I do not think perkins put up consistently those types of numbers.


----------



## cgcatsfan (Jun 10, 2005)

jimmywolfrey said:


> Perkins couldn't beat out Blount or Jefferson or LaFrentz until the last few weeks before he got hurt. I think Perkins getting the playing time was more to do with Mark Blount's inability to pass the ball, play defense, not commit turnovers or rebound.
> 
> Perkins did it for a couple weeks at a good pace (not a great pace). West has done it ever since he got the concussion and missed one game. That was 30 games ago. He has averaged basically 15 points, 5 boards, 5 assists and 1 steal per game..shooting over 50% from the field and 40% 3's and has close to a 3 to 1 assist to turnover ratio.. since then. I do not think perkins put up consistently those types of numbers.


Maybe Perkins hasn't put up those numbers consistently, but then he's only getting about half of the minutes Delonte is. 34 to 18 mpg makes a difference in what you can accomplish. Blount/Jefferson/LaFrentz, versus Dickau/Green/Bynum/Banks as competition for position is slightly tilted in Delonte's favor for ease of winning minutes. 

I like them both. Delonte is making a huge difference. But so is Perkins, so I'm with Aqua on this one.

HOWEVER, as Premier so aptly put it, Gomes has been capable from day one and just got his opportunity. And the chemistry of the last few games has been unbelievable. 

Nice to have so much nice to say about the youngsters, isn't it???


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Causeway said:


> I hear you Aqua but my vote is not becase West is starting - and his competition was weak. It is because he is playing fantastic hoops. And I am not so sure that "Getting a "PG" to perform well is _much _ easier than for a Center."
> 
> Either way - it's nice that we are having this debate and have solid players to debate on.
> 
> Thanks again Danny!


The reason why I say that it's easier for a PG to perform well is easier because, Delonte West has the ball much more in his hands than Kendrick Perkins does.


----------



## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

jimmywolfrey said:


> Perkins couldn't beat out Blount or Jefferson or LaFrentz until the last few weeks before he got hurt. I think Perkins getting the playing time was more to do with Mark Blount's inability to pass the ball, play defense, not commit turnovers or rebound.
> 
> Perkins did it for a couple weeks at a good pace (not a great pace). West has done it ever since he got the concussion and missed one game. That was 30 games ago. He has averaged basically 15 points, 5 boards, 5 assists and 1 steal per game..shooting over 50% from the field and 40% 3's and has close to a 3 to 1 assist to turnover ratio.. since then. I do not think perkins put up consistently those types of numbers.


Perk beat out all three of those about a month into the season. Then he started to see _some_ consistency in minutes.

Perk may not have given us a double double every night (although before he went down he did record a couple of them, I believe) but his play has been very consistent. He was the best low post defender last year and has only gotten better this year. His offense has come a _very_ long way from where it was.

Don't get me wrong, West has been a big surprise, but he's also played, as mentioned above, two times more per game.


----------



## Aznboi812 (Nov 9, 2005)

i know this isn't related to the topic, but whats our long winning streak this year?


----------



## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

2.


----------



## jimmywolfrey (Jan 17, 2006)

If Perkins is only playing 18 minutes a game maybe there is a reason? Some games he'll get into foul trouble early which limits his minutes. In the beginning of the season he was behind Blount and LaFrentz. I can not give someone the most improved on the team when he only can play 18 minutes a game. I know he didn't have the 'opportunity' but some of that is on him not just Doc being Doc. 

I don't think Delonte had the ball in his hands that much at all before the Ricky Davis trade. He may have brought the ball up the court but usually the play was initiated by Ricky or Pierce. Now that RIcky is gone we have seen what Delonte can do besides play smart and shoot. He can actually create for himself. 

Kendrick's emergence due to him not fouling every play is a good sign for the future and I hate arguing between two of the brighter spots on the team this year.


----------



## cgcatsfan (Jun 10, 2005)

Ah, but at least we have two players worth arguing for!!! 
:biggrin: 

Besides, without debates, we'd have no board!!


----------



## OKane730 (Mar 3, 2006)

Delonte West, but Pierce is having his best season ever, it's a shame he might not ever win a championship with the Celts, and he defenately wants to stay a Celtic.


----------



## whiterhino (Jun 15, 2003)

I have to go with Perkins. Delonte has done well also but he always had the support of the coaching staff. Perky wasn't given much of a chance and when he got it he seized it IN SPITE of the coaching staff.


----------

