# When was the last time?



## reives21 (Jan 14, 2003)

When was the last time the NY Knicks developed a rookie with potential? Ewing? This team is very impatient. Don't get me wrong I want to win now but trading away all your prospects and even the draft picks? I love seeing Starbury back home but I hate to see talent not being developed in NY. The Knicks should have a new slogan: You develope young stars, we'll just sign them for more than their worth. I think since Thomas had no say on draft night for NY, he doesn't care where those past prospects end up. Maybe he'll develope the prospects he drafts. Overall I'm happy Thomas blew this team up and made changes and I hope he continues. Layden was hurting us but it looks as if Thomas is coming up with the remedy to alleviate the pain.

Last note: Isn't it weird seeing Starbury wearing Starks' old number and Penny wearing Childs old number?


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> When was the last time the NY Knicks developed a rookie with potential? Ewing? This team is very impatient.


Welcome to 2004. Where have you been the last 20 years?



> I love seeing Starbury back home but I hate to see talent not being developed in NY.


You are clearly in the wrong sports town. The only team that does develop it's own stars is the Yankees (although less frequently now) and they only do so because it's easy to tolerate young guys when you're signing every other team's MVP left and right.



> The Knicks should have a new slogan: You develope young stars, we'll just sign them for more than their worth.


Too bad something called the salary cap exists.



> Last note: Isn't it weird seeing Starbury wearing Starks' old number and Penny wearing Childs old number?


I think it's weird that you have a problem with Penny taking the number of a backup PG. Childs didn't do anything remarkable in NY. As for Marbury, he's not Dennis Scott.


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## reives21 (Jan 14, 2003)

The last 20 years I've been growing into a man thanks for asking...
Remind me again Rashidi... How many Championships did the Yankees win?? And didn't the Yankees win more championships than any other franchises in any sports?? All I'm saying is NY needs to develope their prospects before trading them off, or even trading their draft rights. You might not be aware, though there is a cap in the NBA, the Knicks are well over it. The Knicks are also the ones who invested too much on Houston therefore they overpay some players. Did I mention anything about Childs doing anything remarkable?? No. Read what I'm typing, It is a little strange seeing Hardaway wearing Childs' former number, I didn't say it was bad and in fact I'm happy to see Penny in NY rather than the washed up Childs. The fact of the matter is I would have loved to see how Lampe would have developed in NY but I see you missed the point and I am very happy to have cleared it up for you.


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## shazha (Nov 20, 2002)

by the way why the hell are we even bringing the yankees into the conversation. Its got nothing to do with basketball, or the knicks.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Really? Yes, I'm sure the Yankees have NOTHING to do with New York sports. The Yankees and thier 25 championships of buying talent do not affect what NYers expect from their sports teams.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

hey rieves,
I was all for the knicks completely starting over and playing lampe,williams,sweetney and mcdyss..i think the knick fans would have understood this and ,the fact is,we were only playing .300 ball playing the other guys...

The only thing is,this is the first year we appear to have had decent young talent...How did you feel about the starbury trade??


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## dcrono3 (Jan 6, 2004)

Rashidi, why do you always think someone is dissing you or your players? As reives21 has said, all he said was that it was strange to see Penny in Child's # and you have to retort with
quote: 
I think it's weird that you have a problem with Penny taking the number of a backup PG. Childs didn't do anything remarkable in NY. As for Marbury, he's not Dennis Scott.. 

He never said anything about having a problem with Penny. You should chill man. It not like everyone on this board is out to get you. If you continue overreacting like that, ppl will really start to go after you, especially since you have this tendancy to diss others and try to make yourself sound like the only one who knows anything. You should learn to accept that you MIGHT be wrong and that everyone who disagrees with you are not stupid sports idiots who "can't use their noodle." 

And for the record, I happen to be a NYer who does believe that talent should be developed at home. Sure it is nice that the Yankees are so successful, but I am not so irrational to think the Knicks are going to win the championship with their team in the past few years. I was in full support of the plan to blow up the team and rebuild, but Thomas has already stated that rebuilding is impossible under him, so I'm living with it. I am not sure about others, but I am pretty sure that there will be some NYers who believe in developing talent. Contrary to popular belief, NY is not filled with irrational fanatics who will settle for mediocre teams and will never support a rebuilding project.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

As the originator of "use your noodle",i think you should post a bit more positively every now and then and stop coming after people for innocent posts...

The littlest things set you off...Be it someones comment about seeing a player in a jersey or me stating that sweets bombed on a pre draft conditiong test

Why in the world would you go after someone bringing up starks old number??

and if i try to seriously post with you and ask what trade you would make,you sarcastically reply Michael Jordan....

Personally,i think you like being argumentative which is fun as long as the moderators let us come back at you...You seem to enjoy it


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

I was being sarcastic?

Jordan is no worse an executive than Isiah, he's still capable of playing, he's a SF that can pass and run an offense, and he loves the bright lights of New York.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

LOL you were being serious???

i apologise...really...i had no idea you were being serious....

thats the other thing,i can never tell if you are being sarcastic or sincere...

Personally,i think Jordan was the only GM considerably worse than Layden...He killed the bulls..Trading Rip,drafting kwame,even playing hurt the organisation.

So you would honestly like to see MJ as our small foward???

Count me out on that one...


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

How did he kill the Bulls as a GM?


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

OOOOPSSSS..thanks for catching that...I meant the Wizards.....he Killed the Bulls by leaving


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

He also drafted Jared Jeffries, Juan Dixon, acquired Brendan Haywood, signed Larry Hughes, and traded Juwan Howard's monster contract for Christian Laettner and Etan Thomas.

Other than Kwame Brown (who is still only 20 and has improved each year) there isn't really anything truly bad that can be said of his GM term.

Rip Hamilton don't forget just re-signed with Detroit. What makes you think he would have wanted to do so in Washington?

Jordan helped the revenue of the team by playing. Now people actually GO TO GAMES to see Washington and their new young stars (Arenas and Hughes) play.

If Jordan did not play, Washington would be playing to smaller crowds than New Jersey, and they probably wouldn't even have the money to sign Rip Hamilton even if he wanted to stay in such a bad situation.

Jordan is far better than whoever their last GM was. They traded Chris Webber, Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, and Jeff McInnis for Mitch Richmond (waived), Rod Strickland (waived), Issac Austin (waived), Harvey Grant (waived), and Otis Thorpe (waived).


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## reives21 (Jan 14, 2003)

Hey Rashidi, What place are the Young Wizards in?? 28th?? Yeah Jordan did a great job! The Wizards could have been the worst team in the league but with Jordans GM skill they 2 games above the Magics. Thomas in 3 weeks has made NY a better team than Jordan did in how many years? Going back to what I was saying about developing players... Thomas pulled off a great trade but all i'm saying is they need to develope one or two of their players that they draft themselves even if its every 4 years. Personally I would have loved to see F. Williams go and developed Lampe but since Thomas didn't like his work ethics, he probablly didn't mind giving him up. I'm not dissing the trade, I love seeing Starbury in NY, I love seeing Penny produce but I hate imagining how Lampe is going to turn out, or what potential we missed in the draft.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

rashidi,every one of those players is average at best..jordan was HATED in the locker room and he hurt the Wizards more by playing than anything else..

Brendan haywwod,Jeffries(unfortunate injury) Dixon Hughes.laetner???Thats a pretty mediocre group of playersLook at the won Lost record....The Wizards stink..i MEAN REALLY STINK


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Hey Rashidi, What place are the Young Wizards in?? 28th?? Yeah Jordan did a great job!


How many games have Stackhouse and Arenas missed to injury again?

Oh wait, that's a touchy subject.

Quick, let's blame Lenny Wilkens for letting Vince Carter get injured 2 years in a row.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Thats an awful team...Arenas and stack??there is only one basketball,whos gonna share it??

Jordan was the best player ever,but as a GM he sukked....Kwame Brown and Jarred Jeffries???

Larry Hughes??

Stackhouse for RIP??

That team is UGLY.......

Utah lost Malone and Stockton...They not only play like a team,they win


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Thats an awful team...Arenas and stack??there is only one basketball,whos gonna share it??


Why don't you ask Golden State last year? They were the most improved team in the league with Arenas' improvement, and Jamison doesn't hog the ball any less than Stackhouse. Both individually average more assists than Houston and Van Horn combined.

It's funny how you are so quick to judge them, when they haven't even gotten a chance to play together.



> Jordan was the best player ever,but as a GM he sukked....Kwame Brown and Jarred Jeffries???


Kwame Brown is 21 and has improved every year. He isn't any worse a pick than Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry so far. Heck, let's revisit that draft.

1. Kwame Brown
2. Tyson Chandler
3. Pau Gasol
4. Eddy Curry
5. Jason Richardson
6. Shane Battier
7. Eddie Griffin
8. Dasagna Diop
9. Rodney White
10. Joe Johnson
11. Kedrick Brown

Other than Gasol, not a single star player in the top 11. Are you going to tell me that Kwame is a worse pick than Eddie Griffin or Rodney White? Please captain GM, other than Gasol (who was the first European EVER to do well in his first year from Europe) who would you have taken 1st?

As for Jeffries, he is 22, and only played 20 games in his rookie year due to injury. Quick, let's judge him before he even plays a full seasons worth of games.



> Larry Hughes??


Isn't that guy 22 years old and averaging 19 ppg?



> Stackhouse for RIP??


You are talking like Rip is some sort of superstar. He's Allan Houston without 3pt range. Hamilton is a better #2 guy than Stackhouse, but Stack is a better #1 guy. And the Wiz need a #1 guy now, not a #2. Why don't you ask yourself what Rip would be doing if he were still on Washington?



> That team is UGLY.......


And yet, they still have a more promising future than the New York Knicks.



> Utah lost Malone and Stockton...They not only play like a team,they win


Utah also has some guy named Jerry Sloan, and they also got more than adequate replacements with Andrei Kirilenko and Carlos Arroyo. You are talking like there is no talent on Utah to speak of. I'll take Kirilenko over anybody on the Knicks right now, Marbury included. He's only 22 and he's already worthy of being on an all-defensive team.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

yes!!!!!!i like that post...so you like AK47..he is good...thats the type of athlete we need.......


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Bleh, rushed the post. Fixed the quotes and filled in the blanks.


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## reives21 (Jan 14, 2003)

Hey Rashidi, your dissin me because I mention the Knicks don't develope their prospects but your praising Washington Wizards for all their young talent and what they will be worth in the future... You are indecisive. Plain and simple. Like I've said b4 I love seeing Starbury in NY but I hate to imagine what Lampe might turn into. Going back to praising the young stars in Washington, Rashidi do you really think after the young stars in Washington will resign with them when they fully develope? Honestly? I'd like to hear what you think on this matter. Like I've said b4 the Knicks should develope their prospects, give them a chance and resign them when they are fully developed.


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## reives21 (Jan 14, 2003)

Hey Rashidi I just remembered something memorable that Childs did... Remember when Childs got into a fight with Kobe? And punched Kobe like 3 or 4 times? That was memorable.


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## reives21 (Jan 14, 2003)

The fight is toward the end of the video


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## reives21 (Jan 14, 2003)

The fight is toward the end of the video


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Hey Rashidi, your dissin me because I mention the Knicks don't develope their prospects but your praising Washington Wizards for all their young talent and what they will be worth in the future... You are indecisive.


...And? I am dissing the Knicks for not developing their prospects, and praising the Wizards for developing theirs. What exactly am I being indecisive about again?




> back to praising the young stars in Washington, Rashidi do you really think after the young stars in Washington will resign with them when they fully develope?


It's not really an issue. All teams have to deal with this, and the path to rebuilding means that you have to decide which young guys to re-sign.

Since the change of the CBA, most young guys DO re-sign with their teams, if only because of restricted free agency after year 4, as well as the team option on year 4. It is much easier for teams to keep rookies at least until their 5th year.

None of the Wiz youth are even close to that stage yet. Kwame is the closest, he's a restricted free agent in the summer of 2005. After him, everybody else is in their 1st or 2nd year.



> Like I've said b4 the Knicks should develope their prospects, give them a chance and resign them when they are fully developed.


They'll do that with Sweetney because he's NBA ready. But in an environment where they are trying to win now, they have no use for an 18 year old Maciej Lampe. It's like the Blazers and Jermaine O'Neal.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

i am going to be nice to you from no on..but did you see sweetneys body??there isnt one muscle in it....even clyde commented on it..said he needs to get in shape..i dont understand these guys...how can you be a pro athlete,play the game you love and not be the best you can be??


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## reives21 (Jan 14, 2003)

(attention: Must be read sarcastically) Rashidi you are absolutely right! As always!!! 

Trading away potential talent in Lampe will be known in the future as another stupid move in my opinion. I would have rather given " NBA ready Sweetney " than give up on Lampe. Then again what do I know since Rashidi is always right. My man look at the 6'8, unatheletic, little husky 21 or so Sweetney and compare him to the 7'0, quick, versatile, agile, very raw 18 year old Lampe. Sweetney will be an average player in NY but Lampe with the right guidance will be fun and heartbreaking to watch. It's my opinion so don't quote me on that.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

ild take lampe over sweets every day of the week


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Trading away potential talent in Lampe will be known in the future as another stupid move in my opinion. I would have rather given " NBA ready Sweetney " than give up on Lampe. Then


What the hell are you talking about?

I said I like Lampe more than Sweetney.

Sweetney fits into the goals of this team. Lampe does not. The Knicks are trying to make the playoffs. I didn't put them on this course. Their personnel put them on this course. Don't cry about me because I stated what the direction of the team was.

The fact of the matter is this. An NBA ready rookie can help a playoff team a lot more than a rookie who will take 3 years to be NBA ready. Sweetney isn't in the rotation now, but Othella Harrington isn't going to be around forever. Sweetney will likely be in the rotation next season, if not this season due to a trade or injury.

Can the same be said of Lampe? No.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

"Sweetney fits into the goals of this team. Lampe does not. The Knicks are trying to make the playoffs. I didn't put them on this course..."

I would say thats a bit of a stretch....having Sweetney or Lampe on the team is not gonna take you any closer to the playoffs..Lets be serious

Since NONE of us know how the deal went down,inlcuding me and you, Senor Rashidi,The question I have is did the Knicks offer lampe over Sweetney or Did the Suns insist on Lampe or there was no deal....

maybe Isiah hated Lampes work habits,cause I could not imagine keeping Sweetney over Lampe...I am very down on Sweetney,until he shows up looking like an athlete who takes his game seriously

rashidi,i know we disagree on conditioning,strength and preperation,but when you are 6'8" with no vertical,you better make sure every other aspect of your game is developed to the max


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> 
> 
> Why don't you ask Golden State last year? They were the most improved team in the league with Arenas' improvement, and Jamison doesn't hog the ball any less than Stackhouse. Both individually average more assists than Houston and Van Horn combined.
> ...


Golden state's improvement also had a lot to do with Troy Murphy. Quite a few times last year Arenas would hog the ball, which is why musselman went with boykins at the end of fourth quarter games.


Jerry stackhouse is a horrific ball hog who needs +16 shots to be effective.
He is terrible as a number one option. He can score, he can defend a little, but he can also turn the ball over like crazy. His 3 point range is crap, and even with those 16+ shots he almost never shoots a high field goal percentage. JS reminds me of Ricky D, except he's not as much of a headcase.


Larry Hughes, is an awesome pick up. The guy can play. He can't protect the ball to save his life, and I hear all the time that he is a little on the dumb side ( funny for a proffessional athlete). He'll be 24 soon, and in the right situation, he can really thrive. He's a bit of an enigma, but if he figures things out he'll be an excellent 2 guard. His play style also compliments arenas real well. No reason to diss him.



Kwame needs to get tougher. I think he'd flourish under a hard nosed coach. If you've ever seen this guy put it all together, he is quite a monster. He is still young and improving though. He'd be a great pick up if we could nail him. He has a bad-rep so he'll come cheap, he does everything a forward should do. He is athletic, he is oozing with potential, and he doesn't need to be a star. 


Also, Rip Hamilton is just like H20 - 3pt range and + defense and passing. He also shoots off of screens better than anyone in the NBA. In my opinion he is a better all around player than Jerry, and , if he was in washington would be just as succesful and would be helping to elevate the games of Kwame and Jared.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> I would say thats a bit of a stretch....having Sweetney or Lampe on the team is not gonna take you any closer to the playoffs..Lets be serious


Not this year, but certainly next year and the year after that.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

i hope you are right,because he is all we have....I think Lampes upside is much higher than sweetney..the truth is,whichever one dedicates himself will become the better player,but lampe has something Sweets never will....HEIGHT


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