# JV vs. Biyombo Discussion



## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

With Biyombo having a breakout year we are going to be faced with a tough decision in the offseason. With a glaring need at the power forward position I don't think it's wise to keep both Biyombo and JV on the team since Biyombo will likely demand starting center type salary next year.

While JV clearly has a higher ceiling than Biyombo offensively, I think it's safe to say that JV will never be the rim protector and rebounder that Biyombo is. In a league that is moving away from post scorers I think our team match up better with the elite teams with Biyombo as our starter.

With that in mind there are a few players that I feel can help our team and is acquirable by trading JV.

1. Paul Milisap

With Horford becoming a free agent next year there is a good chance that the Hawks will choose to rebuild if they have another early playoff exit this year. Since Milisap is 32 years old next year it would make sense for them to trade him and go with a younger player.

To me Milisap is the exactly the type of power forward we need. He is versatile on offense and is an underrated defender (averaging 1.5blk and 1.8 stl per game). While he's a bit older he has been durable for most of his career. If we acquire Milisap this to me is a similar acquisition as the Bulls getting Pau Gasol.

Salary wise Milisap will be making 20 mil a year next year and the year after. With JV making close to 15 mil next year we can package Patrick Patterson to match salaries.

2. Julius Randle

If the Lakers win the lottery or finish with a top 3 pick there is a good chance that they will end up with a power forward since I don't see them drafting another guard with Clarkson/Russell already on the team. Randle would become expandable especially if they end up with Ben Simmons.

While Randle is a bit of a tweener and not the ideal stretch 4 for our current roster, salary wise we should be able to get relief since the Lakers should be able to absorb most of JV's contract.

I'll add more to this thread in the upcoming months. Would like to know what you guys think about this center situation.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

I think we be better off taking Ingram who would be an ideal fit as a lengthy 3 who can play D and shoot from range... I'm not sold on Simmons at all


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

e-monk said:


> I think we be better off taking Ingram who would be an ideal fit as a lengthy 3 who can play D and shoot from range... I'm not sold on Simmons at all


Ingram looks like a player, very excited to see him in the L. 

As for Biyombo, he will likely be commanding $8-10m when he hits the market. He clearly loves it here in Toronto and I wouldn't be surprised to see something worked out to keep him around. 

As for the JV vs Biyombo discussion, it's JV all day, the contract extension we gave him last year shows how much the franchise values him. He's improved year on year and still hasn't reached his peak.


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## ozzzymandius (Jun 9, 2003)

Porn Player said:


> .... it's JV all day, the contract extension we gave him last year shows how much the franchise values him. He's improved year on year and still hasn't reached his peak.


It's easy to pick on JV while he's out. But I'd never sell him out to keep Biyombo. Remember when we had no real center and we used Bosh? Now that we have two .... and given how long it took to develop JV, there's no way I want to see him moved. I'd rather that we trade PatPat or Ross instead.

And I don't want to be signing Biyombo at some ridiculous number either. I truly love what he brings and how he complements JV at the 5 to give us two very different options but not for a Ross like contract (who then fizzles in yrs 1&2). If he wants to stay, sign with what we can reasonably trade and afford.


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## ozzzymandius (Jun 9, 2003)

And don't forget we also got some 905'ers that might need a spot next year. We think of them as separate but reality is these teams and players are very close. Derozan and J.Johnson were at the 905 vs. Mad Ants game I went to a few weeks ago... (I'll upload pics tomorrow) Point is Caboclo at the 4 and Nogueira at the 5, should be full rotation players by half way through the season next year. Maybe we trade Nogueira if we keep JV and BB? Just saying we got lots of options....


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I would love to keep JV and Biyombo but the problem is with Ross being overpaid I don't think we have the luxury to have another well-paid bench player considering we still have a glaring hole at PF.

I can't help but say that I was 100% correct with my reaction to the Ross contract. At the time I said that Norman Powell could play Ross's role while costing us a fraction of the money. With how Powell has looked this year theres no doubt in my mind that he will play a bigger role next year, making Ross expandable. Had we waited after the season is over to decide whether to re-sign Ross or match an offer, theres no way we would end up paying Ross that type of money.

I still say that if the Hawks are willing to trade Milisap for JV we should jump on that right away. If we add Milisap to this current squad we would be a title contender next year in my opinion.


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## ozzzymandius (Jun 9, 2003)

Well I'm all in for trading Ross or PatPat off for some future picks.. or for an expiring contract or two. I know we can't trade them without getting more or less the same values back.. so it'll have to be a dump somehow.


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## ozzzymandius (Jun 9, 2003)

Pic 1

Check out the guy in the far side court in grey .... and the guy sitting next to him

Pic 2
Then at half time he came a little closer ...

Pic 3
And finally DeMar was checking out after doing a bunch of autographs ...... The other guy next to him was James Johnson.

Sorry the pics are so dang small though.... I didn't expect to see people and only had my phone :-( But it's pretty cool over at the 905 venue. It's much smaller and since it's only 30 minutes out of the city, I shouldn't have been surprised that the other Raptor players come out from time to time to support these guys. That night Powell, Caboclo, Wright and Nogueira were all playing. Powell dropped 37pts!!


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

What kind of phone do you have dude?


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## ozzzymandius (Jun 9, 2003)

I've got two phones.... Samsung6 for work and a 6Plus for my personal stuff. I used both to take pics but it's not having a cloud account that I can link too from here that makes the pics look bad. If I had an FB the pics would look as good as they do on my phones.... I had to use HipChat instead and that seems to shrink them. If I can think of a better way I'll let you know. It's too embarrassing....


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## Porn Player (Apr 24, 2003)

ozzzymandius said:


> It's easy to pick on JV while he's out..





ozzzymandius said:


> And don't forget we also got some 905'ers that might need a spot next year.


Two very good posts, thanks Ozzzy. 

This Franchise is in the best spot it has been in years. Players that love being here. Winning ball games. Own our picks. Own other picks (incl. Lottery). We have our own developmental squad. 

Honestly, Masai has turned this place around. We're legit. 

If we lose Biyombo, he'll be replaced. His skillset is nice, his mentality is great, but he's nowhere near as rare a player as JV. Both are 23, both have taken a few years to find themselves and I wish both much success. Hopefully they can do that together here, but if not, it's JV that will lead us to where we need to go.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I disagree. The league is moving away from JV's skillset. Post players that cannot hit the mid range jumper have become obsolete in this league. You look at the top 4 teams from each conference, you see a pattern with their centers. The centers either are shotblocker/elite rebounder or versatile scorers with range.

JV is a mediocre shotblocker and an above average rebounder. His scoring ability to me can be ignored completely. Any possession where we dump the ball to him in the low post and have him try to score the basketball to me is a failed possession and should be avoided. When you look at the advance metrics, we are simply better off with our perimeter guys (Lowry/DeRozan) driving and kicking the ball to one of our shooters. That's why in my opinion our most dangerous lineup is Patterson/Carroll/DeRozan/Joseph/Lowry. It's a shame that Carroll has been out for most of the season.

I'm not really knocking on JV. I just feel like trading him right now is making the most out of our assets. It's true that we can let Biyombo walk and just replace him with someone else or even just use Bebe. But we are losing out on the opportunity to fill our PF position. If we really want to keep JV I would rather us find a way to sign Biyombo and then trade him down the road. At least that way we can get something for Biyombo instead of getting nothing.


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## scdn (Mar 31, 2011)

There are quite a few good PF prospects in this draft. We should target 1 definitely with the (currently) lotto pick we own.


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## ozzzymandius (Jun 9, 2003)

Caboclo is a 4. I'm not sure we could afford another rookie in that spot if we bring him up from the 905. I'd say get the best player available and then sign and trade if anything. Or get and keep a future player and shop around for a proven 4 who's ready now.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I think Powell should be our permanent starting 3 next year. I would move Carroll to the 4 and have either JV or Biyombo at the 5.


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## ozzzymandius (Jun 9, 2003)

He (Joseph) did a little too much for my liking tonight. When the offense was sluggish he was trying a bit too hard, kept the ball to himself and it hurt us on a few possessions. But overall he's great. Just a few bad decisions. 

Great night for JV though!! Good to remind us who's our number one 5 and why!!!


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

ozzzymandius said:


> It's easy to pick on JV while he's out. But I'd never sell him out to keep Biyombo. Remember when we had no real center and we used Bosh? Now that we have two .... and given how long it took to develop JV, there's no way I want to see him moved. I'd rather that we trade PatPat or Ross instead.
> 
> And I don't want to be signing Biyombo at some ridiculous number either. I truly love what he brings and how he complements JV at the 5 to give us two very different options but not for a Ross like contract (who then fizzles in yrs 1&2). If he wants to stay, sign with what we can reasonably trade and afford.


I think that people are getting too caught up in the specifics of the way Golden State does things and they're failing to realize that the REAL innovation is flexibility - the more flexible you are, the better able to flow seemlessly through multiple styles of play - the better you are.


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## ozzzymandius (Jun 9, 2003)

No more questions on just how solid JV is!! I'm so glad to have him back in the lineup and active again.... Never any doubt! If Carroll comes back and gives us half as much value I'd be happy and running to find a bookie....


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## ozzzymandius (Jun 9, 2003)

ChrisWoj said:


> .....the REAL innovation is flexibility - the more flexible you are, the better able to flow seemlessly through multiple styles of play - the better you are.


Very, very, well said and the versatility we have now is unbelievable. And as good as JV is I love having Biyombo as a backup and a totally different type of player. Pluses all around. Even if we can't keep him, we've got him now and that's all that matters ;-)


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## Vilius (Nov 13, 2006)

Could this be a breakout season for JV? He had tough summer with Lithuania national team but started the NBA season with high note.


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## ozzzymandius (Jun 9, 2003)

Vilius said:


> Could this be a breakout season for JV? He had tough summer with Lithuania national team but started the NBA season with high note.


Yes!! I think it could be his year. Without Biyombo as a distraction he's free to develop his offence ... what we really need is for the Raps to finally start using him more on offfence. If you watch he's usually open near the basket.


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