# Kareem - Underrated or Overrated?



## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

When Kareem Abdul-Jabbar left the game in 1989 at age 42, no NBA player had ever scored more points, blocked more shots, won more MVP awards, played in more All-Star Games, or logged more seasons. His list of personal and team accomplishments is perhaps the most awesome in league history: Rookie of the Year, member of six NBA championship teams, six-time NBA MVP, two-time NBA Finals MVP, 19-time All-Star, two-time scoring champ, and a member of the NBA 35th and 50th Anniversary All-Time Teams. 




http://www.nba.com/history/players/abduljabbar_summary.html


Well, what do you think? I think hes very underrated. Doesn't get much respect as one of the greatest players.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Hes neither underrated nor overrated. Most people will put him alongside Shaq, Wilt Chamberlain and Hakeem Olajuwon as one of the greatest centers of all time.


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## CrackerJack (Jul 2, 2005)

if not the greatest centre of all-time


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Kareem is neither underrated nor overrated, IMHO.

Most people place him in the Top 5 players All-Time. that's where he belongs.


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

Kareem is great and the Shaq of the 80s, as good as he is, he was always on great teams a lot like shaq and always supported by allstar guards.


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## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

So you're saying Kareem is the NBA's all-time scorer because he played with Oscar and Magic?


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

no im sayin hes got his rings and finals MVP from playin with Oscar and Magic


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## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

Do you know any player thats won championships without having a good side-kick? Jordan had Pippen, Larry had Mchale, Shaq had Kobe, Tim had Robinson/Manu, Jerry had Wilt, Russel had Cousy, the list goes on and on.


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## Hoopla (Jun 1, 2004)

I agree that he is neither overrated or underrated. The only thing I would add is that some forget that his prime was before Magic joined the Lakers.


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## Shady* (Jul 3, 2005)

My dad told me he was considered the greatest player in History of the NBA...

Then Jordan came along....


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

I don't think he's underrated, but he is often forgotten. It's usually between Wilt, Shaq and Hakeem for GOAT, then when someone comes along and mentions Kareem no one disagrees but no one pipes in for him, either.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

I think people downgrade his career because of the time period he played in. When he came in to the league Russel and Chamberlain were at the end of their careers. So, he really didn't have that equally dominant center to play against on a regular basis tha people were use to seeing. Also, during his time (1969-1988) in the league the game was being dominated by guards (Dr. J)who were getting all the attention from the media and fans. At the end of his career is when Magic, Bird, Jordan and the a new young crop of centers (Ewing, Olajuwon, etc..) were getting all of the attention. IMHO, his career has just gotten overlooked. However, as said earlier he is still considered in the top 4-5 centers of all time.

my list (because BB.net loves list).... :biggrin: 

1. Chamberlain
2. Abdul-Jabbar
3. Russell
4. Shaq
5. Olajuwon


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## Mavericks_Fan (Apr 19, 2005)

Hoopla said:


> I agree that he is neither overrated or underrated. The only thing I would add is that some forget that his prime was before Magic joined the Lakers.


Exactly what I was about to post.

Edit: But he was still amazingly lethal even late into his career. He added a quick spin move to his right side late in his career that got him lots of layups. He was very smooth, and would even bury the occassional 20 footer when opposing teams would dare him.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

ralaw said:


> I think people downgrade his career because of the time period he played in. When he came in to the league Russel and Chamberlain were at the end of their careers. So, he really didn't have that equally dominant center to play against on a regular basis tha people were use to seeing.


This is true. BUT remember that, during his career (and not counting the last couple of years, when he was a shadow of his former self), he had to go against top-notch centers, including MVP winners Owens, McAdoo, Walton and (most notably) Moses.



> Also, during his time (1969-1988) in the league the game was being dominated by guards (Dr. J)who were getting all the attention from the media and fans. At the end of his career is when Magic, Bird, Jordan and the a new young crop of centers (Ewing, Olajuwon, etc..) were getting all of the attention. IMHO, his career has just gotten overlooked. However, as said earlier he is still considered in the *top 4-5 centers of all time*.


Don't you mean Top 4-5 PLAYERS of all time?



> my list (because BB.net loves list).... :biggrin:
> 
> 1. Chamberlain
> 2. Abdul-Jabbar
> ...


Good list.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

he's easily, imo, the greatest go-to post scorer in league history. he dominated the league like few others. if i needed a basket, my first option would be to get the ball to kareem (and kareem wouldn't hesitate to get the ball to an open player when they collapsed on him). 

in his prime, he was dominant on the boards and on defense as well.

if you agree with me, he's not underrated. if you don't, he is.


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

ralaw said:


> my list (because BB.net loves list).... :biggrin:
> 
> 1. Chamberlain
> 2. Abdul-Jabbar
> ...


Shaq over "The Dream"?

My list would be - Top 5 centers of all-time.

1. Russell
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Hakeem
5. Shaq


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

SunsFan57 said:


> Do you know any player thats won championships without having a good side-kick? Jordan had Pippen, Larry had Mchale, Shaq had Kobe, Tim had Robinson/Manu, Jerry had Wilt, Russel had Cousy, the list goes on and on.


kareem was always lucky to land on a team ready to win from the start though, and he lasted a very longtime. i'd put him on top 5 alltime but he wasnt half the defender a center should be, one of greatest offensive centers though. Wilt was a much better defender and could make his own shot so i wouldnt consider Kareem better then him. Kareem lasted a very long time and thats why he has all those scoring records. a great player but not greatest center.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

Lynx said:


> Shaq over "The Dream"?


I believe they are interchangable. In there prime they both were the clear-cut best during their time. I wish we could have seen a Shaq in his prime vs. a Olajuwon is his prime.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

BenGordon said:


> kareem was always lucky to land on a team ready to win from the start though, and he lasted a very longtime. i'd put him on top 5 alltime but he wasnt half the defender a center should be, one of greatest offensive centers though. Wilt was a much better defender and could make his own shot so i wouldnt consider Kareem better then him. Kareem lasted a very long time and thats why he has all those scoring records. a great player but not greatest center.


kareem was drafted by a team that won 27 games. they won 56 games his rookie season. and kareem was a dominant defender / rebounder in his prime (and remained an strong defender his entire career).


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

kflo said:


> kareem was drafted by a team that won 27 games. they won 56 games his rookie season. and kareem was a dominant defender / rebounder in his prime (and remained an strong defender his entire career).


Kareem was a semi-dominate rebounder, but thats not all of defense. im not sayin he was a terrible defender but comparin him to what you want your allstar center to rebound like it wasnt impressive. and i compared him to shaq and ya any time u add a allstar center to a allstar guard your gonna get results. im not sayin hes bad just not the best.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

BenGordon said:


> kareem was always lucky to land on a team ready to win from the start though,


What team? the Bucks?



> and he lasted a very longtime. i'd put him on top 5 alltime but he wasnt half the defender a center should be


Check out Jabbar's All-defense selections.



> , one of greatest offensive centers though. Wilt was a much better defender and could make his own shot so i wouldnt consider Kareem better then him. Kareem lasted a very long time and thats why he has all those scoring records. a great player but not greatest center.


"Make is own shot"? and Kareem couldn´t?


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

PauloCatarino said:


> What team? the Bucks?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


how many times did kareem shoot a field goal or a 3? how many times did wilt? that my point on the shot. i dont think u ever watched kareem play by that stupid comment.

and the bucks, hell ya the bucks. Oscar Robertson scorin 30 PPG, it needed 1 more to become a great team and kareem was exactly what it needed.

and u ever watch NBA in 80s? did NBA all-defense really mean anything back then? how much defense did you see with people scorin 120 PPG in every playoff game?


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

BenGordon said:


> Kareem was a semi-dominate rebounder, but thats not all of defense. im not sayin he was a terrible defender but comparin him to what you want your allstar center to rebound like it wasnt impressive. and i compared him to shaq and ya any time u add a allstar center to a allstar guard your gonna get results. im not sayin hes bad just not the best.


he finished in the top 5 in rpg 9 times in his career. 9 times top 3 in blocks, although you could surely add another 4 years where blocks weren't recorded. he was a strong defender.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

BenGordon said:


> how many times did kareem shoot a field goal or a 3? how many times did wilt? that my point on the shot. i dont think u ever watched kareem play by that stupid comment.
> 
> and the bucks, hell ya the bucks. Oscar Robertson scorin 30 PPG, it needed 1 more to become a great team and kareem was exactly what it needed.
> 
> and u ever watch NBA in 80s? did NBA all-defense really mean anything back then? how much defense did you see with people scorin 120 PPG in every playoff game?


not sure what you're saying about kareems ability to create his own shot. again, he was the best post scorer ever, imo. he could create his own shot against anyone.

robertson was traded to the bucks after kareem had already converted them from a 27 win team to a 56 win team.

did guys like jordan and hakeem play defense in the 80s? moncrief? cooper? eaton?


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

kflo said:


> not sure what you're saying about kareems ability to create his own shot. again, he was the best post scorer ever, imo. he could create his own shot against anyone.
> 
> robertson was traded to the bucks after kareem had already converted them from a 27 win team to a 56 win team.
> 
> did guys like jordan and hakeem play defense in the 80s? moncrief? cooper? eaton?


posting up is barely creatin your own shot. he was a great offensive center but u cant compare him to wilt.

Kareem still had Flynn Robinson and Jon Mcglocklin before Oscar Robertson so it aint like the team wasnt built for a big man to dominate.

and 80s basketball wasnt defined by defense other then rebounds. im not sayin there was completely no defense but compared to today? today its nearly impossible to score 30 PPG unless u take 50 shots per game.


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

kflo said:


> kareem was a dominant defender / rebounder in his prime (and remained an strong defender his entire career).


I don't know about his prime, but from watching him in the late '80's, he didn't seem a particularly good defender.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

c'mon bg. he went to a team that won 27 games and instantly turned them into contenders. you were simply wrong.

and you can't compare him to wilt in what way? he was impossible to stop man-to-man. the only way he wouldn't get a good shot off was if he was double teamed, or pushed far enough away from the basket.


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## PartisanRanger (Oct 24, 2004)

A little OT, but a pertinant question.

Is there anyway to watch some of the old games where Kareem was in his prime? I keep hearing about his killer hook shot but have never seen it.


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

kflo said:


> c'mon bg. he went to a team that won 27 games and instantly turned them into contenders. you were simply wrong.
> 
> and you can't compare him to wilt in what way? he was impossible to stop man-to-man. the only way he wouldn't get a good shot off was if he was double teamed, or pushed far enough away from the basket.


The Bucks were set to win back then. they just needed a big man. a lot like suns were set to win this year but just need a great PG.

Kareem was great but Wilt was the best at what he did. Kareem was very offensive but doin the same post-up move over and over is not makin your own shot. and the only thing he had was the hook,the tip in, and the post up. Wilt could do everything, he shots threes,field goals,amazing free throw %,100 PPG,Kareem is maybe on top 3 on alltime centers but Wilt is to centers what michael jordan is to guards.


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## Diophantos (Nov 4, 2004)

BenGordon said:


> Wilt could do everything, he shots threes,field goals,amazing free throw %,100 PPG,Kareem is maybe on top 3 on alltime centers but Wilt is to centers what michael jordan is to guards.


What? Wilt never shot a three in his life. The three-point line didn't even exist in his time. And his career ft% is 0.511 (worse than Shaq's 0.531 and far worse than Kareem's 0.721). You could argue that he's better than Kareem, but not for those reasons.


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## tatahbenitez (Jun 18, 2004)

BenGordon said:


> The Bucks were set to win back then. they just needed a big man. a lot like suns were set to win this year but just need a great PG.
> 
> Kareem was great but Wilt was the best at what he did. Kareem was very offensive but doin the same post-up move over and over is not makin your own shot. and the only thing he had was the hook,the tip in, and the post up. Wilt could do everything, he shots threes,field goals,amazing free throw %,100 PPG,Kareem is maybe on top 3 on alltime centers but Wilt is to centers what michael jordan is to guards.


 

:raised_ey

:yes:

:laugh:

:rock: 



You really crack me up Ben. Amazing free throws from Wilt! :gbanana: 

Shooting all those 3's! (I almost forgot that the 3 point line was implemented when Wilt was already retired) :rotf: 

But you forgot the season where Wilt averaged a quadruple double! nfire: 

Anyway, thanks for the laughs!!! :headbang:


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

BenGordon said:


> The Bucks were set to win back then. they just needed a big man. a lot like suns were set to win this year but just need a great PG.
> 
> Kareem was great but Wilt was the best at what he did. Kareem was very offensive but doin the same post-up move over and over is not makin your own shot. and the only thing he had was the hook,the tip in, and the post up. Wilt could do everything, he shots threes,field goals,amazing free throw %,100 PPG,Kareem is maybe on top 3 on alltime centers but Wilt is to centers what michael jordan is to guards.


do you really know what you're talking about? are you comparing amare and marion and jj to flynn robinson and jon mcglocklin? the bucks weren't set to win. they became set to win when they drafted the best player in basketball. 

i'll have to assume you were joking with the shooting 3's and amazing ft% comment with respect to wilt.

doing the same move is indeed making your own shot when noone can stop it. of course, kareem was more than just one move.


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

Mcglockin and Flynn Robinson were much better then marion and JJ.
each averaged over 20 PPG for many years.


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## tatahbenitez (Jun 18, 2004)

BenGordon said:


> Mcglockin and Flynn Robinson were much better then marion and JJ.
> each averaged over 20 PPG for many years.


It's a wonder that neither of them have not yet been inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame. That is almost criminal. :boohoo:


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

tatahbenitez said:


> It's a wonder that neither of them have not yet been inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame. That is almost criminal. :boohoo:


i didnt say they were great, but were better then marion and JJ. do u see marion or JJ goin to hall of fame?


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

mcglockin's career high was 12 ppg before going to the expansion bucks. he scored a career high 19.6 for a team that won 27 games. the following year he scored 17.6 ppg, but his fg% went from 49% to 53%, in large part because of kareem. he had 2 more seasons scoring double digits. he made 1 all-star game.

robinson's career high was 16 before going to the expansion bucks. he scored 20 ppg that year, 21.8 the next year, and broke double digits only 1 other season. his fg% went from 43% to 48% with kareem.

better to just drop the issue.


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## tatahbenitez (Jun 18, 2004)

kflo said:


> mcglockin's career high was 12 ppg before going to the expansion bucks. he scored a career high 19.6 for a team that won 27 games. the following year he scored 17.6 ppg, but his fg% went from 49% to 53%, in large part because of kareem. he had 2 more seasons scoring double digits. he made 1 all-star game.
> 
> robinson's career high was 16 before going to the expansion bucks. he scored 20 ppg that year, 21.8 the next year, and broke double digits only 1 other season. his fg% went from 43% to 48% with kareem.
> 
> better to just drop the issue.


I've stopped taking Ben seriously since he stated that Wilt was a 3 point shooter, was amazing at the free throw line, and had a 100 ppg. To quote...



> Wilt could do everything, he shots threes,field goals,amazing free throw %,100 PPG,Kareem is maybe on top 3 on alltime centers but Wilt is to centers what michael jordan is to guards.


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

flynn and robinson averaged 20.3 PPG and 19.5 before Kareem.
anyway im not kareem hatin, and not disputin his greatness, hes not overrated but not underrated. always liked the showtime lakers as a kid so Kareem was one of my favorite centers, but u cant compare em and wilt. and i had some of my wilt stats mixed up cuz i aint that old, only know 70s cuz durin 80s they reflected on the bucks,76ers and trailblazers a lot.


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

tatahbenitez said:


> I've stopped taking Ben seriously since he stated that Wilt was a 3 point shooter, was amazing at the free throw line, and had a 100 ppg. To quote...


meant 100 Points in a game. and i dont read NBA history. i dont know much Pre Dr J era because i wasnt alive durin it


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

Hakeem said:


> I don't know about his prime, but from watching him in the late '80's, he didn't seem a particularly good defender.


In the '80's, his defense and rebounding were very lackluster, compared to his earlier days, when he had more legs under him. In the late '80s, towards the very tail end of his career, his rebounding was pretty much anything that bounced towards him, and his defense was often MIA. But he was a tall, imposing presence who could alter shots without really jumping. He needed the energy on offense.

I don't believe Kareem is over/underrated. I've never seen much Wilt, only a few clips recently, but I wasn't impressed. A great athlete, with some moves, but the team defense was lackluster (often 1-on-1) and some of his shots (especially the flip shot), went in over shorter defenders, but would've been swatted by players today, like Ben Wallace. He was just a lot bigger and stronger, or so it seemed. Russell was an inferior player in his day, so I doubt I'd be impressed by him either. I still would rather not rank the two (which would lead me to place Hakeem and Kareem as tied for best center), but that may change with more vintage games. Most people place Kareem where he belongs - a least a top 5 center, if not higher, and one of the best offensive weapons ever.



> I believe they are interchangable. In there prime they both were the clear-cut best during their time. I wish we could have seen a Shaq in his prime vs. a Olajuwon is his prime.


I don't want to take this topic OT, but I believe Shaq in '95 was in his prime. 2nd consecutive season of 29+ ppg, tied for 2nd for his career high of ppg, 13+ boards, 3rd in his career, 3rd highest career blocks in one season. What he gained later was some experience, but considering his size and dominance, his experience has made little difference until last year and the years to come, when he obviously isn't/won't be the same player.


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## Jester (Feb 7, 2005)

BenGordon said:


> The Bucks were set to win back then. they just needed a big man. a lot like suns were set to win this year but just need a great PG.
> 
> Kareem was great but Wilt was the best at what he did. Kareem was very offensive but doin the same post-up move over and over is not makin your own shot. and the only thing he had was the hook,the tip in, and the post up. Wilt could do everything, he shots threes,field goals,amazing free throw %,100 PPG,Kareem is maybe on top 3 on alltime centers but Wilt is to centers what michael jordan is to guards.





> and the bucks, hell ya the bucks. Oscar Robertson scorin 30 PPG, it needed 1 more to become a great team and kareem was exactly what it needed.
> 
> and u ever watch NBA in 80s? did NBA all-defense really mean anything back then? how much defense did you see with people scorin 120 PPG in every playoff game?


LOL! Sigworthy!

I've never seen someone's understanding of a player or the game be so completely WRONG. Wilt shooting threes? His amazing FREE THROW %!? Averaging 100 ppg (though I'll let that slide)! And Oscar never came close to 30 ppg on the Bucks. In fact, he never even averaged 20 ppg. Kareem joined the Bucks before Oscar did. Where are you getting this stuff?



BenGordon said:


> how many times did kareem shoot a field goal or a 3? how many times did wilt? that my point on the shot. i dont think u ever watched kareem play by that stupid comment.


 :rotf: 

I'm sorry

But to respond to the thread question, I agree that Kareem isn't underrated but often forgotten. His prime was before Magic's time, and the '70s seems to be the forgotten era of the NBA -- the league's Dark Age, if you will. Few people can name off the top of their head all 8 different franchises that won titles in the '70s and in which year(s) they won the title. Other great players like Rick Barry, Bob McAdoo, Elvin Hayes, Bob Lanier, Wes Unseld, etc. are also often forgotten or not thought of very highly because most of their careers fell within the '70s.


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## Seuss (Aug 19, 2005)

Ben, like so many others, are going off stuff they've heard. Not seen. And that is why Kareem is underrated.


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## white360 (Apr 24, 2004)

I would say Kareem is underrated.










Why you say?
The first thing I don't like is Kareem being compared to Wilt Chamberlain.
And most would say Wilt is a much better player than Kareem. or Alcindor as he was known as then. Kareem is a much better ball player then Wilt 
ever was. Wilt was a dominant player playing in an era with no other dominant playe. Had wilt played in the 80's he wouldn't averaged 50 points 
an night. How can you compare two players, the one has 6 mvp's, 6 rings, 2 finals mvp's the other one has only 2 rings,4 mvp's and 1 finals mvp.
Kareem changed the whole center position, before Alcindor came into the game the center was post up and robotic, Kareem came in with his sky-hook and defensive plays.
Kareem doesnt get enough credit for all his work. The only thing that you 
hear is how he scored the most points in nba history. He is also one of the greatest defenders of all-time. But nobody is saying that. 
He lacked intensity and didn't do that and couldn't to that, he isn't one of the all time leaders in blocked shots and rebounds for nothing.
Also Kareem has to be given credit for his consitancy over 3 decades of nba playing. 
In the 70's you had Wilt matching against Kareem.
In the 80's, early 80's anyway there was no one that could match up against Kareem. Walton, Parish, Malone and Ralph Sampson could not defend the sky-hook or the post up plays. People say that Kareem was only a former shadow of himself later in his career. Well first time Kareem and Akeem met when Olajuwon was a rookie, Kareem ligt up Akeem for 46 points.

Kareem is underrated because he doesn't get enough credit for all he accomplished in his 20 year career. And he did so much for the game itself.
He IS the greatest center of all time.

I'll throw in my top 10 list of centers:
1: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2: Robert Parish
3: Hakeem Olajuwon
4: Wilt Chamberlain
5: Bill Russell
6: Moses Malone
7: Nate Thurmond
8: Elvin Hayes
9: Manute Bol
10: Elmore Smith


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

SunsFan57 said:


> Ben, like so many others, are going off stuff they've heard. Not seen. And that is why Kareem is underrated.


o ya and u saw wilt bein 14? i saw kareem, i never saw wilt but just the 100 Points in a game for me is enough to already know Wilt is much better then Kareem. Kareem was a declinin defender throughout the 80s and he always was a great offensive center throughout his career, reminds me exactly of shaq. except shaq dont got the hook, if your comparin who finished their career better then its Kareem


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Bizzare. That's all I can say.

I saw Kareem play in college. I saw plenty of Wilt, too.

No doubt Wilt was an incredible player, and he'd have been as dominant as Shaq (and yes, could have scored 100 and averaged 50) during the 80s.

Wilt actually led the league in assists, too. He is, perhaps, the strongest player, physically, who ever played.

You should not dismiss Bill Russell when considering the #1 of all time.

Kareem was absolutely a great player at every phase of the game. The only knock on him was he was considered "lazy" because he looked like he was loafing to get back on D. Look at Kevin Garnett and then picture an even BETTER player with that build, and you have Kareem. He could handle the ball and pass as well as Garnett. He's famous for the sky hook, but he also had a very good outside shot.

Ummmm... Wilt was one of the worst FT shooters in the history of the NBA. He tried everything to try and get good at it, but he was just miserable. He even would shoot from near the top of the key and off to one side.

My top 3:
1) Wilt
2) Russell
3) Kareem

(You can swap Wilt and Russell and I wouldn't argue).

I wouldn't say Hakeem was anywhere near as dominant as those three, but as a pure center, he had absolutely every skill imaginable, plus the heart, desire, and hustle to go with it. He'd be my #4.

Anyone who thinks they didn't play defense back then is absolutely mistaken. Russell is considered the greatest defensive player in history, and back in the 1970s, the Bulls were contenders and built mostly on defense.

The 1980s was something of a farce. Two of the top teams HAD to play zone because Larry Bird was ridiculously slow at SF, and there's no way in h-e-double-toothpicks that Magic could guard someone like Kevin Johnson. And it was BORING to watch those two teams play their 2-1-2 (celtics) and 2-3 (lakers) zone defenses against each other (and their games were televised a LOT).

But the Sixers were a phenominal defensive team (bobby jones may be the best defensive PF in history), Caldwell Jones, Henry Bibby, etc. Portland, with Walton leading the way, fielded 5 terrific defenders at most times. 

To answer the question, Kareem is UNDERRATED. Clearly too many people saw him play when he was 45 years old and don't understand what a great player he was. Even saying he was great is underrating him.

As a side note...

The Bucks had Big O and Kareem and they drafted Dr. J, but Doc went to the ABA. THREE HOFers in the same lineup, and all 3 could be considered top 10 of all time considering all the positions. Robertson was every bit as good as Magic, and maybe better - he's the only player in history to average a triple double for a season. And he nearly did it at least a couple other times.


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## Diophantos (Nov 4, 2004)

white360 said:


> I'll throw in my top 10 list of centers:
> 1: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
> 2: Robert Parish
> 3: Hakeem Olajuwon
> ...


Ummm...what? Please tell me you forgot Shaq. And Parish over Olajuwan, Chamberlain, and Russell? Where do you come up with this?


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## Hakeem (Aug 12, 2004)

Manute Bol would have brought Shaq to contemplate suicide had they met in their respective primes.


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## white360 (Apr 24, 2004)

Diophantos said:


> Ummm...what? Please tell me you forgot Shaq. And Parish over Olajuwan, Chamberlain, and Russell? Where do you come up with this?


I don't want Shaq on the list just because he isn't a great player, he is just strong and muscels his way to the basket, cannot run, cannot shoot freethrows and cannot shoot from outside. The can dunk period.
Amd I don't think that's a "good" ball player.
And that's MY top 10 list, not the top 10 greatest


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

white360 - a "good" basketball player isn't defined by assessing individual skills, like running, jumping, 3pt shooting. it's defined in large part by production. i understand you don't like the game shaq plays, but he's certainly been a great player.


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