# Phil Jackson: Kobe's as good as Michael



## ceejaynj (Oct 9, 2005)

I'm glad PJ finally took a stand on this debate. Tough call, but I am partial to Kobe. The only way I see Jordan's game being better than Kobe's was in Jordan's ability to make his teammates better. But Kobe still has a few years left to work on that. 

http://network.yardbarker.com/nba/article_external/phil_jackson_kobes_as_good_as_michael/4646276


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Jordan was a better athlete and had better shot selection. I don't see how Jordan made his teammates better than Kobe does.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

*R-Star: No he isn't*


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

ceejaynj said:


> I'm glad PJ finally took a stand on this debate. Tough call, but I am partial to Kobe. *The only way I see Jordan's game being better than Kobe's* was in Jordan's ability to make his teammates better. But Kobe still has a few years left to work on that.
> 
> http://network.yardbarker.com/nba/article_external/phil_jackson_kobes_as_good_as_michael/4646276


Really? Really?

Ahahahaha. 

Ohh...I love Kobe, but you Laker fans.

You Laker fans crack me up sometimes.

Funny stuff. Thanks for the jokes.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Let's not generalize all Laker fans here big guy. Kobe's not better than Jordan. He never has been. He never will be. Accept it.

That being said, Kobe from '08 to now is eerily similar to the second three-peat Jordan. They're essentially the same player from style to impact. It's weird.

But yeah, Kobe has been an incredible player, top eight or so of all time, but he can't touch an '88-'93 Jordan.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

ceejaynj said:


> I'm glad PJ finally took a stand on this debate. Tough call, but I am partial to Kobe. The only way I see Jordan's game being better than Kobe's was in Jordan's ability to make his teammates better. But Kobe still has a few years left to work on that.
> 
> http://network.yardbarker.com/nba/article_external/phil_jackson_kobes_as_good_as_michael/4646276


That's a very strange source. Sounds like some selective quoting by the author. We won't really know what Phil thinks until he retires and separates himself from the Lakers. Then he'll come out and say what most of us already know. Kobe's an all-time great, one of the best ever but not as good as Jordan. Offensively, defensively, physically, athletically, Jordan was superior.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

Kobe's current numbers compared to MJ's at the same age:











The Bulls won 72 games that year... I'd say MJ's impact (particularly post 1993) is being underrated in this thread. Kobe Bryant is a great player... he's just not the greatest player ever.


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

Phil Jackson is speaking from a different POV.

You can say someone is as good as another player - despite one having a better CAREER.

I think that's what people get lost in. Jordan would have had a better career, which is not downplaying Kobe's career at all.

As for comparing the ages Dornado, Kobe has way more mileage at their respective ages.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Who cares, Magic was better than them both.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Jamel Irief said:


> Who cares, Magic was better than them both.


Real talk.


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## ceejaynj (Oct 9, 2005)

Tragedy said:


> Kobe has way more mileage at their respective ages.


Great point...and very true.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

Dornado said:


> Kobe's current numbers compared to MJ's at the same age:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats not a fair comparison. 

Kobe has played 15 years at this point MJ only 8 at only 11 at that point. 

MJ year 13 last year with the Bulls 28 5,3

Kobe year 13 27,5,5,

pretty even for years in league. 

Kobe isn't as good a talent but he's very very close. 

so for PJ to say he's as good thats a pretty fair claim.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

The majority of you are idiots.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

R-Star said:


> The majority of you are idiots.


That hurts coming from someone who doesn't watch basketball.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

VanillaPrice said:


> That hurts coming from someone who doesn't watch basketball.


I've watched a hell of a lot more ball than you have in our lifetimes. But I forgot, me watching religiously back in the day and up until about 2005 doesn't count because you catch more games than me in 2011. 

Good work.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

R-Star said:


> I've watched a hell of a lot more ball than you have in our lifetimes. But I forgot, me watching religiously back in the day and up until about 2005 doesn't count because you catch more games than me in 2011.
> 
> Good work.


How would you know that? You've admited to not watching much basketball since Reggie retired, and therefore can't really be expected to know what you're talking about in regards to modern players. But whatever.

And I'd *really* like to know what post of mine in this thread can be viewed as "idiotic".


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

VanillaPrice said:


> How would you know that? You've admited to not watching much basketball since Reggie retired, and therefore can't really be expected to know what you're talking about in regards to modern players. But whatever.
> 
> And I'd *really* like to know what post of mine in this thread can be viewed as "idiotic".


Modern players? Like who, Kobe? I never got to see him play before. 

And what's idiotic, is your face.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

R-Star said:


> I've watched a hell of a lot more ball than you have in our lifetimes. But I forgot, me watching religiously back in the day and up until about 2005 doesn't count because you catch more games than me in 2011.
> 
> Good work.


Go watch Nike promo videos and "Come Fly With Me" on loop. Come back when you have knowledge and not senseless hype.

Or you can go troll the Blazers board again.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> Go watch Nike promo videos and "Come Fly With Me" on loop. Come back when you have knowledge and not senseless hype.
> 
> Or you can go troll the Blazers board again.


I love how you seem to think you're the NBA historian around here. Your opinion is more often than not laughable. You take the contrarian side on every NBA debate in some feeble attempt to look smart. 

And telling the Blazers Travis Outlaw wasn't a franchise player isn't trolling, its common sense.


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

this is getting off topic... knock it off or i will lock it down


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

R-Star said:


> I love how you seem to think you're the NBA historian around here. Your opinion is more often than not laughable. You take the contrarian side on every NBA debate in some feeble attempt to look smart.
> 
> And telling the Blazers Travis Outlaw wasn't a franchise player isn't trolling, its common sense.


What was I the contrarian side on here? you just throwing stuff out there and hoping something sticks?


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

kobe's not better than MJ, but i think people do seem to put jordan on this untouchable sacred pedastal. jordan is a bit better than kobe, but it's not like a night and day issue.

btw, calling someone's face idiotic isn't really conducive to a healthy discussion. it doesn't add any more to your point, it's just a inflammatory.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

R-Star said:


> Modern players? Like who, Kobe? I never got to see him play before.
> 
> And what's idiotic, is your face.


Well put.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> What was I the contrarian side on here? you just throwing stuff out there and hoping something sticks?


The large majority of people view MJ as the GOAT, so of course Jamel Irief, the fountain of basketball knowledge that he is has to come in to throw out a "Doesn't matter. Magic was the best."

You're the kind of guy where someone says, "the sky sure is blue today" you'd reply "I'd call it more of a light purple."


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

VanillaPrice said:


> Well put.


Thanks. It took me about an hour to come up with, but I thought it was some of my best. 

"You're face!". Gold Jerry, gold!


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

R-Star said:


> The large majority of people view MJ as the GOAT, so of course Jamel Irief, the fountain of basketball knowledge that he is has to come in to throw out a "Doesn't matter. Magic was the best."
> 
> You're the kind of guy where someone says, "the sky sure is blue today" you'd reply "I'd call it more of a light purple."


Michael Jordan was one of the best players to ever play the game, possibly the best. But there are other players that are in the conversation (Magic, Kareem, ect.) so pretending like MJ is/was some untouchable entity is choosing to ignore other legends.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

R-Star said:


> Thanks. It took me about an hour to come up with, but I thought it was some of my best.
> 
> "You're face!". Gold Jerry, gold!


It's certainly up there with all of the other R-Star classics. Probably top five even.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

VanillaPrice said:


> It's certainly up there with all of the other R-Star classics. Probably top five even.


You don't appreciate the gifts that have been given to you from a truly great mind.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

R-Star said:


> The large majority of people view MJ as the GOAT, so of course Jamel Irief, the fountain of basketball knowledge that he is has to come in to throw out a "Doesn't matter. Magic was the best."
> 
> You're the kind of guy where someone says, "the sky sure is blue today" you'd reply "I'd call it more of a light purple."


I don't use the phrase GOAT, I say the best ever.

It's a good thing you patrol team boards, finding examples of fans being homers. Quick! Someone on the nuggets board called gallo a future all star!


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

R-Star said:


> You don't appreciate the gifts that have been given to you from a truly great mind.


I'll work on it.


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## ceejaynj (Oct 9, 2005)

VanillaPrice said:


> ...pretending like MJ is/was some untouchable entity is choosing to ignore other legends.


:cheers:


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## ceejaynj (Oct 9, 2005)

afobisme said:


> ...i think people do seem to put jordan on this untouchable sacred pedastal.


:cheers:


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> I don't use the phrase GOAT, I say the best ever.
> 
> It's a good thing you patrol team boards, finding examples of fans being homers. Quick! Someone on the nuggets board called gallo a future all star!


You do understand GOAT means Greatest Of All Time correct? So.... like the same thing best ever would mean right?


You being on your period is kind of funny, but its also kind of sad. 

"I said best ever, not GOAT!" 
"I said ball, not sphere!"


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## ceejaynj (Oct 9, 2005)

Okay...why don't you two just kiss and make up already!


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

I like fighting.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

R-Star said:


> You do understand GOAT means Greatest Of All Time correct? So.... like the same thing best ever would mean right?
> 
> 
> You being on your period is kind of funny, but its also kind of sad.
> ...


They aren't the same thing. They are two different phrases with the same meaning. 

Oh and Acronyms are for lazy message board geeks.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> They aren't the same thing. They are two different phrases with the same meaning.
> 
> Oh and Acronyms are for lazy message board geeks.


I'm going to kick that filing cabinet right back into your brain. It's going to leave a dent in the metal. You'll never look the same again.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

Phil Jackson says a lot of things, which things should we believe. I mean Phil did write a tell all book in 2004, where he bashes Kobe up and down. I find Phil is just catering to LA and Kobe these days. When Phil's coaching days are really over, and he has no affiliation with any team in the NBA. I'm sure we will get a much better and more honest testimony regarding players he coached, situations that arose, and who he really thought was the better player MJ or Kobe. Anytime Mike is sitting back smoking one of his cuban cigars, I'm sure he simply chuckles at the idea that Kobe is the better player.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

23AJ said:


> Phil Jackson says a lot of things, which things should we believe. I mean Phil did write a tell all book in 2004, where he bashes Kobe up and down. I find Phil is just catering to LA and Kobe these days. When Phil's coaching days are really over, and he has no affiliation with any team in the NBA. I'm sure we will get a much better and more honest testimony regarding players he coached, situations that arose, and who he really thought was the better player MJ or Kobe. Anytime Mike is sitting back smoking one of his cuban cigars, I'm sure he simply chuckles at the idea that Kobe is the better player.


I could see MJ sitting back getting angry. MJ is a pretty well documented dick head.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

I mean if we're talking about Phil Jackon's players in general then this is moot because neither of them would be the number one option on a early 2000's Lakers squad. Shaq would be.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Yeah I gotta agree with R-Star, Jordan is/was twice the egomaniac that Kobe is. I'm sure he throws a hissy fit everytime someone mentions Kobe or even LeBron in the same breath as him.

Not really a knock though, his crazy drive and ego is part of what made him such a great player.

But he's still an ass.


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

R-Star said:


> I could see MJ sitting back getting angry. MJ is a pretty well documented dick head.


Maybe, but I doubt it. He's pretty much solidified as the greatest basketball player ever. He's done it all individually, and via team ball. Mike actually seems to like Kobe though. He's always saying Kobe is the best in the game right now. But he also made it clear that in his prime Kobe would have no shot against him.


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## roux (Jun 20, 2006)

I watched all of MJ's championships, and i have seen kobe's whole career.. Jordan was just a better player... and so what.. kobe is probably the 2nd best sg in league history, thats a hell of a compliment and achievement


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## 77AJ (Feb 16, 2005)

VanillaPrice said:


> Yeah I gotta agree with R-Star, Jordan is/was twice the egomaniac that Kobe is. I'm sure he throws a hissy fit everytime someone mentions Kobe or even LeBron in the same breath as him.
> 
> Not really a knock though, his crazy drive and ego is part of what made him such a great player.
> 
> But he's still an ass.


Price you obviously no very little about Kobe if you think MJ's twice the egomaniac. Kobe is every bit the egomaniac if not more so, though only difference MJ is the better player. 

Just read Phil Jacksons book about Kobe beating up his teammates like Walker or cutting all the significant role players like Fox etc out of his life ...

Or maybe when Kobe use to purposely put games in jeopardy when he was in high school, just so he could play hero and win games at the end....

Come on man, most people realize the difference of MJ's aggression and ego compared to Kobes.

And actually for anger issues go, Kobe's are well documented even into his childhood.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

You obviously don't know MJ or just like to hate on Kobe bro. MJ's ego is on another level. Like nothing I've ever seen before except for maybe Lebron.


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## afobisme (Apr 29, 2006)

my personal feeling is that jordan was/is the bigger egomaniac.. but that's not to say that kobe is some selfless saint.


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## ceejaynj (Oct 9, 2005)

I have to agree about MJ being a dickhead, because I have seen it. When I was in Paradise Island, Bahamas two years ago he was there for a golf event. He had a huge security entourage around him at all times and nobody could even get near him. The hotel staff I chatted with all said he was a real jerk, and he would not even sign autographs or talk to anyone. Patrick Ewing was also there with a lady and I was able to chat with him in the casino for a moment with no problems. I have never seen Kobe in public, so I don't know how he reacts to the attention.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

I think they're both pretty big douchebags.


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

VanillaPrice said:


> Yeah I gotta agree with R-Star, Jordan is/was twice the egomaniac that Kobe is. I'm sure he throws a hissy fit everytime someone mentions Kobe or even LeBron in the same breath as him.
> 
> Not really a knock though, his crazy drive and ego is part of what made him such a great player.
> 
> But he's still an ass.


I'm not defending MJ. He's definitely a prick.

But one thing MJ has consistently proven, is that he likes Kobe a lot as a player and respects his game. I don't imagine he'd freak out as much as people think.

MJ has always been a dick, but I always felt that he respected players who had the same competitive drive as he does, and on that front I always thought he had immense respect for Kobe. I'd venture as far as assuming that Kobe is probably MJ's favorite current player.

Lebron on the other hand...yeah, I'm pretty sure Jordan would throw a hissy fit. Jordan has no respect for dude.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

23AJ said:


> Price you obviously no very little about Kobe if you think MJ's twice the egomaniac. Kobe is every bit the egomaniac if not more so, though only difference MJ is the better player.
> 
> Just read Phil Jacksons book about Kobe beating up his teammates like Walker or cutting all the significant role players like Fox etc out of his life ...
> 
> ...


Since Kobe is playing the majority of the games that I watch and I've followed his entire career extremely closely I'm going to have to say that I'm probably more qualified to speak about Mr. Bean. He's an *******, everyone knows that. He's alienated teammates, belittled them, and thrown gigantic hissy fits. I'm not defending Kobe's ego in the least, except for the fact that it's probably helped keep him driven so that he could become the player that he has.

Jordan on the other hand, was a lot like Kobe, only a few degrees worse. Kobe threw Bynum under the bus in front of the media, Jordan punched them in the face. Kobe was involved in one of the most embarrassing sports soap operas with all that Shaq bull****, Michael belittled his teammates to the point where they had little to no confidence left in their game.

And don't come in here and try to call it all Jordan's "competitive edge". There's a difference between asserting yourself as the alpha dog and making everyone around you realize it, (like Kobe has done) and being a dickhead.

Again, that doesn't change the fact that Jordan > Kobe, and that's not going to change. But don't come in here trying to put MJ on a pedastal. He was an extremely talented basketball player and a tyrant in the locker room. But maybe that's what Phil Jackson led teams need, seeing as the two have eleven (and counting) championships between them.

Side Note: Bringing up instinces when Kobe had to have a parent in the car to drive an automobile isn't really going to help your arguemnt. Everyone is a little **** at 15 or 16. That's not being an egomaniac, that's just life.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Pay Ton said:


> I'm not defending MJ. He's definitely a prick.
> 
> But one thing MJ has consistently proven, is that he likes Kobe a lot as a player and respects his game. I don't imagine he'd freak out as much as people think.
> 
> ...


Michael does like Kobe, to a certain extent. But I'm willing to bet that Jordan sees Bryant as a little brother of sorts. Impressive? Yeah. Fun to watch? Yeah. Eerily similar? Yeah. But I don't think Jordan would like the idea of any modern player being compared to him, but maybe that's just me. 

I will concede that Kobe would probably induce a milder hissy fit then say a LeBron or Wade or something.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

VanillaPrice said:


> Jordan on the other hand, was a lot like Kobe, only a few degrees were. Kobe threw Bynum under the bus in front of the media, Jordan punched them in the face. Kobe was involved in one of the most embarrassing sports soap operas with all that Shaq bull****, Michael belittled his teammates to the point whereb they had little to no confidence left in their game.
> 
> And don't come in here and try to call it all Jordan's "competitive edge". There's a difference between asserting yourself as the alpha dog and making everyone around you realize it, (like Kobe has done) and being a dickhead.


Didn't Kobe supposedly pop Samaki in the eye? Lets face it, both guys were *******s. They verbally and physically abused their teammates and coaches. They were competitive as hell but that's no excuse for their behavior. They weren't great teammates in the Magic Johnson or Jason Kidd sense where they raised their confidence level. They destroyed it. Luckily, some players like Pippen and Odom stuck around and eventually got over the verbal assaults. Others fleed at the first opportunity. It's wrong but it got results and in sports, that's all that matters.


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## sonicFLAME6 (Dec 19, 2006)

MJ is an egomaniac. In interviews he's all over the place at times. One interview he says he could score 100 in todays era, next interview he says Kobe would beat LeBron 1on1, then while promoting NBA 2k11, he says Kobe is top 10 all-time in guards, not top 3, nor top 5, but top 10. His ego just wants him at #1 forever.


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