# Adam Morrison = Hedo Turkoglu?



## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

I've watched both play and I think that coming into the NBA Turkoglu is the closest thing (as of right now) to Adam Morrison. Both can adequately rebound the ball and play defense, not to mention the fact that they both have the ability to create their own shot. Hedo averaged about 15-4-3 on a decent team this year, and I think Morrison will have a similar impact provided that he gets enough playing time.

What does everyone else think?


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

This comparison won't go well on this board as most people look at Hedo as being an average role player. Morrison is an extremelly interesting player that everyone seems to have an opinion on (similar to Kobe) from a 20ppg scorer in his rookie season to a role player who will be average on the NBA level. It will be interesting to see what he becomes. Morrison has "it" from a marketing perspective and this alone will keep him in the spotlight. He is one of the more polarizing figures before he even enters the league. I expect him to peak out at as a good and reliable second option who can put up 15-17 ppg, but be more like Derek Jeter in that his "legend" will surpass his production on the court. I just don't see him as a go-to number one option kind of guy.


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## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

> This comparison won't go well on this board as most people look at Hedo as being an average role player. Morrison is an extremelly interesting player that everyone seems to have an opinion on (similar to Kobe) from a 20ppg scorer in his rookie season to a role player who will be average on the NBA level. It will be interesting to see what he becomes. Morrison has "it" from a marketing perspective and this alone will keep him in the spotlight. He is oneof the more polarizing figures before he even enters the league. I expect him to peak out at as a good and reliable second option who can will put up 15-17 ppg, but be more like Derek Jeter in that his "legend" will surpass his production on the court. I just don't see him as a go-to number one option kind of guy.


While I agree with just about everything you said, I'm comparing the floor game of Hedo last year with the floor game of Morrison in his rookie year, nothing more. Granted, Morrison is definetly a more highly touted player, I don't see his actual in-game impact being anything more than what Hedo has done in the past.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

Duck34234 said:


> While I agree with just about everything you said, I'm comparing the floor game of Hedo last year with the floor game of Morrison in his rookie year, nothing more. Granted, Morrison is definetly a more highly touted player, I don't see his actual in-game impact being anything more than what Hedo has done in the past.


I agree with that, but I'd put Morrison at around 12-13ppg during his rookie season; however, the floor game is similar.


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## Nimreitz (May 13, 2003)

I don't really know. Their body type is pretty similar and they're both white, so therefore you have made an intriguing comparison. Too bad Morrison isn't Turkish or else it would be flawless.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

dont see it at all, hedo is a good defender and a decent shooter but he isnt a go-to guy, he's more of a role player. morrison is a great shooter, creates his own shot probably better than any wing player i've seen in some time and has a great feel for time and score. his basketball iq is far superior to that of hedo and most others for that matter.


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## T.Shock (Feb 11, 2003)

Morrison may not have the best ball handling skills, but he can create his shot a lot better than Turkoglu or most guys in the league. Also, there is a reason why Hedo Turkoglu created the Bill Walton line "TURRIBLE BALLHANDLING BY (insert name here)"


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## nbanoitall (May 21, 2004)

michael jordan = deshawn stevenson?


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## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

T.Shock said:


> Morrison may not have the best ball handling skills, but he can create his shot a lot better than Turkoglu or most guys in the league. Also, there is a reason why Hedo Turkoglu created the Bill Walton line "TURRIBLE BALLHANDLING BY (insert name here)"


I've watched a lot of Hedo Turkgolu and a lot of Adam Morrison, and I'm a huge fan of both (so go ahead and dounce your Homer accusations here) and I can honestly say that there's not much of a big difference in their ability to create their own shot. Also keep in mind that Hedo been playing against NBA men and Morrison has been playing against NCAA competition. BTW, don't give me this crap about UCLA and Memphis being NBA-sized teams and whatnot, it won't fly with me.


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

nbanoitall said:


> michael jordan = deshawn stevenson?


...suprisingly from the dude with the Ammo fan club.

Adam has his work cut out for him transferring that dominance to the league. I think he'll be better than Hedo, but don't know how much more than Wally.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

People shouldn't discount Hedo's ability to create his own shot. He's a 6'9"-6'10" SF who is a decent athlete. Creating his own shot isn't a problem. I've seen Hedo have some games where is unstoppable because he can pretty much stop and pop against just about any defender. 

I don't think it is a bad comparison at all. The difference, and probably the reason Morrison will be better than Hedo, is in consistency and confidence. Hedo gets down on himself really easily and doesn't have that swagger. If he did he'd be scoring 24-25 ppg. Morrison most definitely has that swagger and I assume it will translate.

During Orlando's late season run people gave credit to a lot of different players but Hedo didn't get much pub ... but during that run he was putting up, I believe, in the mid-20s in PPG during that run.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

JNice said:


> People shouldn't discount Hedo's ability to create his own shot. He's a 6'9"-6'10" SF who is a decent athlete. Creating his own shot isn't a problem. I've seen Hedo have some games where is unstoppable because he can pretty much stop and pop against just about any defender.
> 
> I don't think it is a bad comparison at all. The difference, and probably the reason Morrison will be better than Hedo, is in consistency and confidence. Hedo gets down on himself really easily and doesn't have that swagger. If he did he'd be scoring 24-25 ppg. Morrison most definitely has that swagger and I assume it will translate.
> 
> During Orlando's late season run people gave credit to a lot of different players but Hedo didn't get much pub ... but during that run he was putting up, I believe, in the mid-20s in PPG during that run.


Exactly, ive seen hedo play some really nice games. Morrison fans should be happy with this comparison, since morrison will have more consistancy and confidence. Hedo is a real talent.


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## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

JNice said:


> People shouldn't discount Hedo's ability to create his own shot. He's a 6'9"-6'10" SF who is a decent athlete. Creating his own shot isn't a problem. I've seen Hedo have some games where is unstoppable because he can pretty much stop and pop against just about any defender.
> 
> I don't think it is a bad comparison at all. The difference, and probably the reason Morrison will be better than Hedo, is in consistency and confidence. Hedo gets down on himself really easily and doesn't have that swagger. If he did he'd be scoring 24-25 ppg. Morrison most definitely has that swagger and I assume it will translate.
> 
> During Orlando's late season run people gave credit to a lot of different players but Hedo didn't get much pub ... but during that run he was putting up, I believe, in the mid-20s in PPG during that run.



Bingo. 100% Agreed. I couldnt of said it better myself. This could very well replace my OP.

Repped.


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

I think Morrison will be better, but right now. I have no idea, how his game will translate.


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## crazyfan (Dec 9, 2005)

ralaw said:


> I agree with that, but I'd put Morrison at around 12-13ppg during his rookie season; however, the floor game is similar.






12-13ppg... that was the same thing that was said and expected by many going into carmelo's rookie year and look what happened.
Dont underestimate Ammo


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

crazyfan said:


> 12-13ppg... that was the same thing that was said and expected by many going into carmelo's rookie year and look what happened.
> Dont underestimate Ammo


depends on what team he goes to and how many minutes he gets, nobody is promised a certain amount of shots but obviously if they are looking for you its to your advantage. i still think he would be better in the western conferance, from what i have seen of the east in the playoffs its still 3 yards and a cloud of dust.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

crazyfan said:


> 12-13ppg... that was the same thing that was said and expected by many going into carmelo's rookie year and look what happened.
> Dont underestimate Ammo


Melo is Melo and Morrison is Morrison, and since I don't see the parallels between the two that some are making; I will say what Melo did has nothing to do with what Morrison will do. Also 20ppg scorers as rookies don't come into the league often.



ralaw said:


> Morrison is an extremelly interesting player that everyone seems to have an opinion on (similar to Kobe) from a 20ppg scorer in his rookie season to a role player who will be average on the NBA level. It will be interesting to see what he becomes.


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## The Mad Viking (Jun 12, 2003)

There is some similarity.

But ammo will certainly do better than Hedo over the early part of his career.

Hedo has a very nice outside jumper, may be as good or better than Morrison's at the same range. But Morrison has an uncanny ability to FINISH all kinds of floaters and spins. Hedo gets these off, but he's a 42% career shooter who only this season shot better than 42%. Ammo gets to the stripe much better than Hedo. (If it translates to the NBA)

Hedo is a pretty good defender. I doubt ammo willl ever be as good.

Hedo is probably a better rebounder than ammo will be in the NBA. He is so skinny, and he won't get the foul calls he got at zaga whenever someone ripped the ball out of his hands.

Ammo will probably generate assists at a similar rate to Hedo in the NBA (more than he got in college).

Biggest difference, as someone pointed out, is that ammo is super-clutch; Hedo is NOT.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

ralaw said:


> Melo is Melo and Morrison is Morrison, and since I don't see the parallels between the two that some are making; I will say what Melo did has nothing to do with what Morrison will do. Also 20ppg scorers as rookies don't come into the league often.


Yeah, those two shouldn't be compared at all. Melo is an athletic power player. He is like the full-time small forward version of Charles Barkley. Using his success as a reason that Morrison will succeed is like using Marcus Fizer's lack of success as a reason Morrison will fail. They're just largely irrelevant. 

I think Adam Morrison will be more like Wally Sczcerbiak. He will be a 15-18 point scorer for his prime career, and will be a very good roleplayer. He might even make an all-star team in his best year, like Wally.


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## mo76 (Jun 13, 2003)

I would say that hedo is the better athlete. He can through down some sick dunks when he wants to.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Yeah, those two shouldn't be compared at all. Melo is an athletic power player. He is like the full-time small forward version of Charles Barkley. Using his success as a reason that Morrison will succeed is like using Marcus Fizer's lack of success as a reason Morrison will fail. They're just largely irrelevant.
> 
> I think Adam Morrison will be more like Wally Sczcerbiak. He will be a 15-18 point scorer for his prime career, and will be a very good roleplayer. He might even make an all-star team in his best year, like Wally.


I think that is a great assesment and one that I have been making, but obviously a few on these boards believe he is the second coming of "greatness". Someone actually believes Morrison should get 20 FGA per game....... :raised_ey (your eye probably just did that)...........yes :raised_ey ! To me Morrsion would be a great second option capable of providing as you say 15-18ppg in his prime years. I believe this role would be great for him.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

The thing about Hedo is that he's been doing this against pros. Adam has not done it against pros yet. I think Hedo would have been darn near unstoppable on the college level. How many 6'9 guys can handle, shoot and pass like he can? He is really underrated.

During the Magic run at the end of the season, he was a big reason why they were winning games as JNice alluded to. To just write him off as some journeymen bum is not fair. He's still in his twenties and has improved the last two years in Orlando. I think he'd be better if Grant Hill would just frickin retire too.

Edited to add: I wonder how much better Hedo would have been had he not been on those Sacramento teams (his first 3 years). Adelman has refused to stretch his bench his entire career, which has always hurt him come playoff time. Hedo was contributing significantly on an NBA contender as a 2nd year player.

He avg. 14 ppg the last two years and that should rise higher this year.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

ralaw said:


> I think that is a great assesment and one that I have been making, but obviously a few on these boards believe he is the second coming of "greatness". Someone actually believes Morrison should get 20 FGA per game....... :raised_ey (your eye probably just did that)...........yes :raised_ey ! To me Morrsion would be a great second option capable of providing as you say 15-18ppg in his prime years. I believe this role would be great for him.



you can name names, i said he should get 20 shots per game, if he shoots 50% then let him take 50 per, i always laughed when they said kobe shot too much, is he supposed to pass to guys who cant shoot as well as him, the thing i like about am3 is his shot has got progressively better every year, at one time his 3pt percentage wasnt good then last year he was shooting lights out, the guy is a scorer and unlike a wally s. he can create his own shot. he's a dynamic personallity that sort of imposes his will on a game, i think people are going to be pleasantly surprised, pair him with telfair and webster there in portland and they are going to have a super nucleus and maybe one good bigman away from a championship caliber team.


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

rainman said:


> you can name names, i said he should get 20 shots per game, if he shoots 50% then let him take 50 per, i always laughed when they said kobe shot too much, is he supposed to pass to guys who cant shoot as well as him, the thing i like about am3 is his shot has got progressively better every year, at one time his 3pt percentage wasnt good then last year he was shooting lights out, the guy is a scorer and unlike a wally s. he can create his own shot. he's a dynamic personallity that sort of imposes his will on a game, i think people are going to be pleasantly surprised, pair him with telfair and webster there in portland and they are going to have a super nucleus and maybe one good bigman away from a championship caliber team.


I don't like naming names, as I don't believe in "throwing people under the bus" just to validate my beliefs.

If Morrison comes into the league and is able to have a fg% of +50%, more power to him, but he is a pure scorer and they tend to not have high fg% coming into the league. Wade is actually an exception and much of his percentages have to do with shot selection being a gift that he has. I hope Morrison does well because it would be good for the league, but I just don't expect him to be a #1 option type of guy. I actually would like to see him go to the Blazers, as I believe that is a great fit for him and the organization.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Morrison isn't athletic enough to score a lot of points (18+) with great efficiency (50%+ FG).


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## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

> Morrison isn't athletic enough to score a lot of points (18+) with great efficiency (50%+ FG).


But Steve Nash is?


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## STUCKEY! (Aug 31, 2005)

People need to stop comparing Morrison to any tall white guy. Sterotyping is really annoying


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

SHEED! said:


> People need to stop comparing Morrison to any tall white guy. Sterotyping is really annoying


So who would you suggest people compare him to? Who says it's stereotyping? Do you say that with black players?


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## STUCKEY! (Aug 31, 2005)

ralaw said:


> So who would you suggest people compare him to? Who says it's stereotyping? Do you say that with black players?


It always seem every good white player is compared to another white player. Idk just seems like it always is like that.


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## Duck (Jan 30, 2006)

> People need to stop comparing Morrison to any tall white guy. Sterotyping is really annoying


Whats really annoying is your ignorance of other people's backgrounds.

Hedo is Turkish. (Arab descent)


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## ralaw (Feb 24, 2005)

SHEED! said:


> It always seem every good white player is compared to another white player. Idk just seems like it always is like that.


In my opinion sometimes there are simularities between the races as far as style of play. Once you start going out of your way to find someone who is or isn't of the same race the comparison becomes unnatural. I sincerely believe people are just making comparisons. Besides as Duck34234 said Turkoglu isn't even white anyways.


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## STUCKEY! (Aug 31, 2005)

Duck34234 said:


> Whats really annoying is your ignorance of other people's backgrounds.
> 
> Hedo is Turkish. (Arab descent)


Im not necisarly talking about Hedo as i am refering to people comparing every good player to wally,it just makes me alittle mad.


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## STUCKEY! (Aug 31, 2005)

ralaw said:


> In my opinion sometimes there are simularities between the races as far as style of play. Once you start going out of your way to find someone who is or isn't of the same race the comparison becomes unnatural. I sincerely believe people are just making comparisons. Besides as Duck34234 said Turkoglu isn't even white anyways.


I know but like i said in my prevous post, People sometimes cant see past the color of someone skin and anyalze it as it should be, thats my view on that.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Duck34234 said:


> But Steve Nash is?


Adam Morrison is not near the pure shooter or ball handler that Steve Nash is. Nash can create his own shot with unbelievable ball handling skills and you can't give him an inch (he is a much better shooter than Morrison anywhere on the court).


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Adam Morrison is not near the pure shooter or ball handler that Steve Nash is. Nash can create his own shot with unbelievable ball handling skills and you can't give him an inch (he is a much better shooter than Morrison anywhere on the court).


obviously morrison isnt the ballhandler or playmaker that nash is, why would he be, as far as a shooter morrison is hands down a better shooter and i wonder why anyone would think differant.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Morrison a better shooter than Nash? Nonsense. 

You're building him bigtime if you think he is going to shoot 90%+ from the free throw line, 50%+ from the floor and 40%+ from three point range, while scoring 20 a game. 

Nash is one of the two or three best shooters in the league. Morrison is not going to be at the level. He'll be top 10 at best.


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## RomaVictor (Feb 16, 2004)

Duck34234 said:


> Whats really annoying is your ignorance of other people's backgrounds.
> 
> Hedo is Turkish. (Arab descent)


Turks are not Arabic by any stretch of the imagination.

And Turks are considered Caucasian.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Well, David Stern has his fingers crossed for Morrison to live up to the Bird hype. The league really needs a true white star to appeal to color bias whites (most of them are in their 40's or older though). I think Kirk Hinrich is the best white player in the league, and he's good, but not anything too special.

Now, its too hard to get a non color biased comparison, because if you make the correct one, people will ridicule it, I've made non color biased comparisons in the past, and have been ripped for it since people are blind when it comes to this, just because a guys white doesn't mean his game resembles closest another white guy. Its hard to make a comparison to Morrison right now, for me at least, he's a pretty unique player.

But look at the color bias on draft.net for comparisons.

Morrison=Bird (white guys with crusty mustaches)
Bargnani=Dirk (both white foreign guys)

There are only 2 white guys/black guys compared to the opposite race on draftnets mockdraft.

At 23. Aaron Gray=Felton Spencer, and 30. Quincy Douby=Steve Kerr


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## jsm27 (Jan 9, 2003)

sloth said:


> I think Kirk Hinrich is the best white player in the league, and he's good, but not anything too special.


I assume you mean American-born white player. I can think of quite a few European-born white players that are better than Hinrich (Dirk for example).


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

jsm27 said:


> I assume you mean American-born white player. I can think of quite a few European-born white players that are better than Hinrich (Dirk for example).


Yup, obviously, Dirk could run circles around Kirk (or could he?). If Hinrich could consistently hit a jumper at a 50% mark, he'd be one of the best playes in the league. He did it in college, so it sucks that he is so inconsistent now.


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## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

RomaVictor said:


> Turks are not Arabic by any stretch of the imagination.
> 
> And Turks are considered Caucasian.


Caucasian? Seriously? Since when?

Turks are not considered Caucasian. I've lived amoungst Turks in two countries, and it's quite obvious they're not Caucasian. Turkish ethnicity is so diverse, it's ignorant to classify them as solely Caucasian or Arabic. If anything the majority is probably a Mediterranean/Central Asian mix.

I think you should bone up on a little Turkish knowledge.

As for the Hedo/Morrison comparison, it's actually pretty interesting. If you saw Hedo play for Orlando towards the end of the season, you wouldn't think it's selling Morrison too short. Of course, I think Morrison shows greater leadership skills and has a psychological advantage over Hedo in confidence. Also, Morrison is probably a slightly better shooter from distance if you ask me. Morrison obviously has a better chance at becoming the better player too, as he'll be given a situation to thrive in as a leader presumably. Hedo's never been given such a chance, possibly because he has shown little besides being a good scorer.


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

In summary, this thread tells you that 

The draft best = a role player in a bad team


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

RomaVictor said:


> Turks are not Arabic by any stretch of the imagination.
> 
> And Turks are considered Caucasian.


turkey is a country not a race(obviously). okur is obviously white, hedo seems more arabic. just my take.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Saying Nash succeeded as giving a reason for Morrison to succeed, show that people value athleticism different ways. Steve Nash is incredibly quick and has the ability to change direction with the basketball at high speeds. Not to mention he's one of the best pick and roll players in the NBA.

Pick and rolls are rarely run for swingmen. However, for a PG it's deadly. This is an apple-oranges comparison.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Morrison was also shown to be about 6'7 in shoes (or pushing 6'8) with not as much athleticism. That position is becoming more and more difficult to defend, because there are a bushel of 6'8 guys who are athletic freaks at that position.

Lebron (6'8)
Carmelo (6'8)
T-Mac (6'8)
Josh Howard (6'6)
Villanueva (6'10)
Posey (6'8)
Battier (6'8)
Artest (6'6)
Nocioni (6'8)
Josh Smith (6'8)
James Jones (6'8)
Danny Granger (6'8)
Rashard Lewis (6'10)
Corey Maggette (6'6)

This is what I wonder about down the line. Morrison was able to shoot over guys on the college level. Will he be able to continue it against professional scouting reports that know your tendencies on a nightly basis. The guys are either his height and/or more athletic then he is on the wings.

You can't stop a guy like Jason Terry, because unfortunately even though he goes right 95% of the time, you can't simulate his speed. Morrison is going to have to be the hardest working 20 ppg scorer you've ever seen in your life to succeed.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

HKF said:


> Morrison was also shown to be about 6'7 in shoes (or pushing 6'8) with not as much athleticism. That position is becoming more and more difficult to defend, because there are a bushel of 6'8 guys who are athletic freaks at that position.
> 
> Lebron (6'8)
> Carmelo (6'8)
> ...


personally i would like to see him play the two because i dont think he would be as effective on the front line, i think you're overrating athletic ability as it relates to basketball,i'm not comparing anyone to these guys but magic/bird/mullin used every crafty move you could imagine and had the quick first step to get their shoulder by their defender, morrison will have problems so will gay,aldridge,bargnani on down the line.of that list of about 15 guys you mentioned there are about 5 that are really good the rest are overrated.


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

Hedo is a better athlete then Morrison and can handle the ball better.

Morrison reminds me more of Wally and Matt Harpring then Hedo. 


If Morrison can be better then MAtt Harpring was at his peak then good for him. 


Morrison a number 1 option? Maybe for a cellar dwellar. He would be a good 2 option on a good team. He could help certain teams that need scoring from the SF position and realize they won't be getting a good defender in return.


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

sloth said:


> Well, David Stern has his fingers crossed for Morrison to live up to the Bird hype. The league really needs a true white star to appeal to color bias whites (most of them are in their 40's or older though). I think Kirk Hinrich is the best white player in the league, and he's good, but not anything too special.


Did Steve Nash rollover and die?
MVP 2 years in a row and he isn't considered the best white player in the league?


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## jsm27 (Jan 9, 2003)

compsciguy78 said:


> Did Steve Nash rollover and die?
> MVP 2 years in a row and he isn't considered the best white player in the league?


Good point, even when you do not include European players, Nash, even though he is Canadian, should rank ahead of Hinrich.


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