# Has Lebron grown?



## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

In the paper today, there was an article regarding the Olympic team. It discussed Lebron and how he appeared two inches taller and 10 pounds heavier than his listed 6'8" 240 pounds.

Even if he lost some of his explosiveness a 6'10" 250 pound Lebron James is a scary thought. The only player in the league that I think would be capable of handling him from wing to rim would be KG.


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## HoopsAvenue05 (Jul 20, 2004)

I think Odom could handle him too, as in not get annihilated. That is scary, if true.


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

I doubt it. But hell he is 19, and could definatly still grow. That would make him more of a SF then a SG now. I think he played a mix of the 2/3 last year. Guy is already gonna be great, and if he grew 2 inches and put on 10 pounds of _muscle_ then this guy is gonna be a SuperStar next year. 

I'm going to guess his stats: 26ppg/7rpg/6apg. Hell, he could even average 30ppg if he gets his post game.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

haha if he did grow 2 inches(and oddly enough I said the same thing last night when they showed clips of the pictures from practice("has Lebron grown?" I sez)) then the Cavs have their answer at the 4 after losing Boozer.

I can't wait to see how his game has progressed this summer.


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## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

A 6'10" LeBron?!

Uh-oh...:uhoh:


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

If LeBron was 6"10 and gained a little weight... Well I'd say he wins a championship in his career at the very least. Oh yeah, and I wouldn't know who to compare him to.


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## LoaKhoet (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>gian</b>!
> If LeBron was 6"10 and gained a little weight... Well I'd say he wins a championship in his career at the very least. Oh yeah, and I wouldn't know who to compare him to.


Magic Johnson?


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## DJRaz (Aug 20, 2003)

much love to garnett and even odom, but no one in the league would match up with a 6'10" 245 lebron james with 19 year old legs and his ball handling and passing skills.

i'm not saying he's a better player than KG yet, but man at that size the sky is the limit. i always try to remind people that carlos boozer is 6'9" (stretching)/255. LBJ at that size, with all his court vision and high flying antics (not to mention a jumper that you just know is gonna come around), would be deadly.

for me it's not about his final stats, it's about wins and losses, and more selfishly, pure entertainment. even all old and jaded i get excited whenever lebron touches the ball. it's good tv and it's good sport. and he always delivers -- brilliance, near brilliance, and an occasional wha? -- but always entertaining.


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>LoaKhoet</b>!
> 
> 
> Magic Johnson?


He'd be Magic Johnson + Some great big man I think. I mean... 6"10 man!


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

So Garnett wouldn't able to match up with Lebron? Let's not get silly please.


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

I don't think two inches make that much of a difference.

He's still a freak.


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## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

I wouldn't say Magic as I don't think he'll ever have the quarterbacking skills that Magic had - very few have come even close.

Maybe a cross between the very best of Sean Kemp and Scottie Pippen would be an accurate comparison?


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## bender (Jul 15, 2002)

I remember that LeBron had an x-ray taken from his wrist after he broke it prior his junior season. He was 6-7 back then, and the doctors told him he would be 6-9 or 6-10 when he finished growing. Maybe he finished it now.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

He's way more athletic than Magic ever was, that was never a really good comparison IMO. Lebron is his own man, let's just admit that there has *never* been a player that combined his strength, athleticism, court vision, and overall basketball IQ at such a young age.


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## A Seal Clubber (Jun 20, 2003)

If Lebron were 6'10 240, I'm pretty sure most of you would be okay with him doing things out on the perimeter, taking outside shots and handling the ball a lot. But why is it that when someone like Dwight Howard says he wants to be a 3 or when Eddie Griffin hovers out on the perimeter, it's immediately held against them because they are supposed to be "big men" and do "big men" things? Why is Lebron excepted from all this?


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> He's way more athletic than Magic ever was, that was never a really good comparison IMO. Lebron is his own man, let's just admit that there has *never* been a player that combined his strength, athleticism, court vision, and overall basketball IQ at such a young age.


Good Post and I agree. This guys is his own guy, you can't compare him to *one* person. I mean LeBron is a mix of 1 great thing from each of the Best SuperStars. The guy is amazing.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> He's way more athletic than Magic ever was, that was never a really good comparison IMO. Lebron is his own man, let's just admit that there has *never* been a player that combined his strength, athleticism, court vision, and overall basketball IQ at such a young age.


Thank you Captain Obvious...








No. Really. Thank you. That's exactly right.

(YOU GUYS ALL KNOW YOU WANTED TO SAY IT!!)


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>A Seal Clubber</b>!
> If Lebron were 6'10 240, I'm pretty sure most of you would be okay with him doing things out on the perimeter, taking outside shots and handling the ball a lot. But why is it that when someone like Dwight Howard says he wants to be a 3 or when Eddie Griffin hovers out on the perimeter, it's immediately held against them because they are supposed to be "big men" and do "big men" things? Why is Lebron excepted from all this?


Because Dwight Howard and Eddie Griffen have been playing Forward and Dwight some Center, while LeBron has played Guard and Small Forward. Stick to your position young fellas.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> Thank you Captain Obvious...
> ...


Hey, I'm just doing my job  .


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## A Seal Clubber (Jun 20, 2003)

Who would you rather have, a 7' guard with excellent shooting, passing, ball handling and courtvision, and decent speed, or a 7' center with excellent footwork, post moves, inside scoring ability, and defense?


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Yeah, Lebron is tall and strong, but he has natural guard skills, that with his size makes him very versatile. If he ever gets to his full potential, I'd imagine he would be like a VERY rich man's Scotte Pippen. For all we know, 5 years from now, we could look back at Lebron as the best player to ever grace the hardwood.


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## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>A Seal Clubber</b>!
> Who would you rather have, a 7' guard with excellent shooting, passing, ball handling and courtvision, and decent speed, or a 7' center with excellent footwork, post moves, inside scoring ability, and defense?



I don't know that's a tough decision, but the scary thought is that Lebron at 6'10" and 250 could be both of these players combined.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

if lebron is 6'10 now, i expect him to be posting people up all day long at the olympics and next season.

it would be stupid for him to linger solely on the perimeter with that kind of size.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>banner17</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know that's a tough decision, but the scary thought is that Lebron at 6'10" and 250 could be both of these players combined.


Then he would be a taller, stronger Michael Jordan.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

As long as LeBron doesn't lose any quickness or athleticism, the bigger and stronger he gets the better.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

at 6'10 he would become the freak to end all freaks.

the problem (haha) he'd have is figuring out the best way to hone his different talents and skills. what is the best way for a guy like that to play?


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

Bigger means
rebound up
quickness down
outside shooting down


my suggestion:

Move him to SF


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## jdg (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> at 6'10 he would become the freak to end all freaks.
> 
> the problem (haha) he'd have is figuring out the best way to hone his different talents and skills. what is the best way for a guy like that to play?


With the size and skill he had, Silas would have to improvise because no coach has had the privilege of coaching a player like that. Could LeBron's career turn out to be less about his acclomplishments, and more about creating a whole new way to use certain players?


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

There is no way he's going to be that tall.


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## Odomiles (Mar 23, 2004)

Well, it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility. As many posters have mentioned already, LeBron is only nineteen years old. Many people continue growing until they're twenty-one. If LeBron was 6'8" at the age of eighteen then I don't exactly think it would be shocking for him to reach 6'10" or more.

Let's take Mike Dunleavy Jr. for example... In his Senior year of High School he was a 6'4" point guard, if I'm not mistaken. In his first year at Duke he was a 6'5" shooting guard. And now? He's grown four inches since, bringing him to the 6'9" player he is today. After his Senior year of High School, Brian Skinner shot up from 6'1" to 6'9". Pretty incredible, huh? Don't say "there's no way" because, as science has proven, there most certainly _is_ a way.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>jdg</b>!
> 
> 
> With the size and skill he had, Silas would have to improvise because no coach has had the privilege of coaching a player like that. Could LeBron's career turn out to be less about his acclomplishments, and more about creating a whole new way to use certain players?


i don't see it really. offensively, there's little that hasn't been done. defensively, the same. lebron may combine the 2 in ways not seen before, but i don't think he'll completely redefine how players are used. mabye he'll redefine how freaks are used, but how many of them are there. when magic came around people thought he was the new definition of the pg. but alas, there's really only been 1 magic. 

his career better turn out to be about accomplishments. because that's what it's all about.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

*OT:*



> Originally posted by <b>LoaKhoet</b>!
> 
> 
> Magic Johnson? [/QUOTE
> ...


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

there is no way you grow 2 inches after you reach 18...maybe 1 and thats pushing it..unless he's taking some 'growth stuff'..haha..


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> there is no way you grow 2 inches after you reach 18...maybe 1 and thats pushing it..unless he's taking some 'growth stuff'..haha..


What are you talking about? The aforementioned Mike Dunleavy Jr. grew over 4 inches in two years after graduating from HS. At least read the thread before making yourself look foolish.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*superfreak.*

If LeBron really did grow, that'd mean the only person in the league who could check him would be KG. Crazy how KG being a freak himself can guard other freaks like TMac and Bron. Bunch of superfreaks out here, somebody call Rick James.


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## jdg (Jun 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> there is no way you grow 2 inches after you reach 18...maybe 1 and thats pushing it..unless he's taking some 'growth stuff'..haha..


Dennis Rodman was someone who did it. When he got outta high school he was 6'1, and look at him today. I've also grown about 1.5 inches since turning 18 a little over a year ago. It can happen.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> He's way more athletic than Magic ever was, that was never a really good comparison IMO. Lebron is his own man, let's just admit that there has *never* been a player that combined his strength, athleticism, court vision, and overall basketball IQ at such a young age.


More athletic than Magic clearly but not better at the same ages or as basketball smart. 

I think at 6'8 he's the perfect height for his skills. At 6'10 and no post game I think you'd have to reclassify him some. I think the skies still the limit but he has to have a post game and be tougher doing some of the dirty work. Gotta get me close to 10rpg with that kinda size not just handling the ball and running the break. 

He has no comparison though. He's more athletic than magic, bigger than MJ. I think he's a mixture of the two really. 

He needs to keep his weight down though. He's too young to be 245 already. Heck having natural growth he's gonna be 260 or so in 5 years. Thats alot of weight. He's bound to lose quickness. 

The sky's the limit for this kid though. When he fully understands the pro game he could be an alltime great player. 

Gotta strengthen his winning resolve though isn't just about making highlights.


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> What are you talking about? The aforementioned Mike Dunleavy Jr. grew over 4 inches in two years after graduating from HS. At least read the thread before making yourself look foolish.


I concur, I grew 2 inches after I was 18 from 5'11" to a mighty 
6'1".


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## rebelsun (Nov 25, 2003)

6'10 LeBron = game over for the rest of the NBA.


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## CrookedJ (May 8, 2003)

I think you would have to play him at 3 or even 4. He doesn't have a post game yet, but then neither do half the big man coming into the league. With that size, his super freak athleticism, and his Basketball IQ a post game could only be a few months practise with Paul Silas away.

I agree with Jazzy1 about his weight. If he is too heavy it will limit his quickness, and could be an injury concern down the road for a high flyer like him - various leg and foot injuries often results from players carrying too much weight over time.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> I think he's a mixture of the two really.


His game doesn't resemble MJ's at all, I wish people would quit saying that. You want someone whos game resembles MJs, go watch TV this summer when THE trial is on.

Zeke [Isiah Thomas, president of the Knicks] said LeBron's game most resembles Michael Ray Richardson's game, and I trust that but I never seen him play so I'll call him a more athletic Magic with a bit worse decision making.


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## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> there is no way you grow 2 inches after you reach 18...maybe 1 and thats pushing it..unless he's taking some 'growth stuff'..haha..


David Robinson entered the Naval Academy at 6'8". He left at 7'1"

Now, unless David was 14 when he entered Navy.....


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## Jesus_Walks (Jul 11, 2004)

i agree with zeke, havent really thought of michael ray richardson as a comparison up til now, lebron is basically a bigger and stronger michael ray. now if he is 6'10 250, thats just scarrry, thats some godzilla shiet


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## Jeriqaui (Jul 5, 2003)

Thats Lebron next to Odom. Although they aren't exactly next to each other, Lebron doesn't look like he is quite 6'10. Also I thought this tattoo pic was sweet.








http://www.firstcoastnews.com/sports/news-article.aspx?storyid=21984 for more


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## Jesus_Walks (Jul 11, 2004)

dayuuum, is it just me, or does odom look pretty big now? looks like hes been hittin the gym, he looks almost as big as bron


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## Jeriqaui (Jul 5, 2003)

Odom needs to workout his stick legs.


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Jeriqaui</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Going by that pic he doesn't look 6'10 at all. Doesn't matter though. 6'8 or 6'10. If he works, and of course stays healthy, he's gonna be something special.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I don't know, in that pic, when you take into account how far away Lebron is from Odom, he's scarily close to that height.

As far as more Lebron info, folks should head over to the Cavs board. There's an excellent article from USA today about Lebron's olympic exploits thus far.

And word is Lebron HAS been working on a post game.

Larry Brown hasn't given Lebron a position yet. He's just going to put him out there and let him play. Says he can and will play 4 positions for this team. Brown is completely enamoured with the kid.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

Even if he is "only" 6-8 and 240, anybody that is quick enough to guard him will be overpowered and anybody who is strong enough to guard him will be 'out-quicked'. Except maybe KG. I think the most amazing thing about him is his combination of strength and quickness. He is a true manchild.


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Ballscientist</b>!
> Bigger means
> rebound up
> quickness down
> ...


Thats BS. OUtside SHooting is a skill. IF anything it will go up because he won't get blocked. Quickness doesnt decrease A LOT if u grow 2 inches. Honestly, I dont think his quickness decreases. And he become more dominant than he was before.


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## HeinzGuderian (Jun 29, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Blazer Freak</b>!
> 
> 
> Thats BS. OUtside SHooting is a skill. IF anything it will go up because he won't get blocked. Quickness doesnt decrease A LOT if u grow 2 inches. Honestly, I dont think his quickness decreases. And he become more dominant than he was before.


I agree, being taller doesnt mean you lose a shot if you have one. The only way it goes down is if he gets bigger and only works on a post and midrange game, and doesnt develop a shot. And I dont see that happening. I think quickness could decrease a small bit, but I think it would be more than made up for in added strength.


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## jazzy1 (Jul 16, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sherako</b>!
> 
> 
> His game doesn't resemble MJ's at all, I wish people would quit saying that. You want someone whos game resembles MJs, go watch TV this summer when THE trial is on.
> ...


Well I'm old enough to have seen Michael Ray and Lebron's game does resemble his but a bigger version alal Magic Johnson. Magic's game resembled Micheal Ray. 

Lets see lebron flies through the air , throws it down with power, has the ability to hang and double clutch shots yeah very similar to MJ. 

I'm not saying he's MJ no one is but you can see some of the same things in his game. He's a scorer its simple as that. All these people trying to make Lebron into this playmaker are fooling themselves while he has passing ability his game took off last season when he was a scorer. Thus MJ comparison. He's not a pg or point forward he's a scorer who can pass. 

And you're right the guy on trial plays almost exactly like MJ.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> Lets see lebron flies through the air , throws it down with power, has the ability to hang and double clutch shots yeah very similar to MJ.


In that case, Shandon Anderson is similiar to MJ.



> I'm not saying he's MJ no one is but you can see some of the same things in his game. He's a scorer its simple as that.


What kind of things, can you name some for me? Fact is MJ was one of the greatest midrange shooters of all time while Bron can develop that if he had to, where he gets his points at is on the break. 

LeBron creates in the halfcourt and scores on the break. Its no coincedence he had his biggest game against New Jersey, (41 pts 13 dimes), by all intents a running team.



> All these people trying to make Lebron into this playmaker are fooling themselves


Well, LeBron IS a playmaker. He makes plays.



> And you're right the guy on trial plays almost exactly like MJ.


He does play like him, but the comparison ends there.


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## AZwildcats4 (Feb 9, 2004)

Am I the only one who doesn't really think another 2 inches will make him any better? I firmly believe that his best attribute is his passing and court vision and that point gaurd or point forward is where he belongs. Another 2 inches would help a ton if he was a post player and it would help him if he chose to develop a post game, but as a perimeter player who is already inches taller than pretty much everyone he faces I'm not sure what another 2 inches would add to his game. Also it's inevitable that growing that much will decrease his quickness and possibly make him a slightly worse ball-handler.


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

Two things I worry about when it comes to Lebron.

For one. I'm sorry. But the kid is too big. He should try and drop atleast 10-15 pounds if he could. He's way too young to be so damn big. Playing with that much weight at such a young age could hurt him down the road.

Secondly. He averaged about 40 minutes per game last season. That's a ton of minutes for anybody, let alone an 18 year old straight outta hs. Obviously it's gonna be more of the same this year, next year, and so on. Will playing so many minutes so early and so young come back to haunt him somewhere down the road? Will see


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*real trouble.*



> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> Secondly. He averaged about 40 minutes per game last season.


He's going to be playing even more this season possibly leading to injury after his Olympic play, the Cavs are in real trouble.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> Two things I worry about when it comes to Lebron.
> 
> For one. I'm sorry. But the kid is too big. He should try and drop atleast 10-15 pounds if he could. He's way too young to be so damn big. Playing with that much weight at such a young age could hurt him down the road.
> ...


Who are you to make that assesment that he is too big? That statement of him being too big is ridiculous on so many levels its not even funny. If hes carrying the weight and it obviously hasnt affected his game what does it have to do with his age. Obviously you do not know much about modern weight training techniques. If it were a problem the Cavs would already have had him lose weight. In all honesty when you were young you most likely had more wind than you do now. Believe me the people around him are professionals at the highest level and they know what they are doing.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: real trouble.*



> Originally posted by <b>sherako</b>!
> 
> 
> He's going to be playing even more this season possibly leading to injury after his Olympic play, the Cavs are in real trouble.


Thank you fortune teller. You know all of this is going to happen because of?? I mean Lebron is not the first guy to play that amount of minutes during the Olympics and then go into the season playing well and at a high level. You already have doomed the Cavs.


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## JT (Mar 1, 2004)

*as in, likely to happen.*



> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> You know all of this is going to happen because of?? I mean Lebron is not the first guy to play that amount of minutes during the Olympics and then go into the season playing well and at a high level. You already have doomed the Cavs.


Don't get too emotional about it, maybe he stays healthy and combines with Melo to form the BronMelo Alien who averages 100 pts 50 rebounds and 25 assists? Its a prediction. What I predicted IS a likely scenario.


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## Tersk (Apr 9, 2004)

I cant wait for next season, LeBron will get a few extra rebounds from Carlos not being there, then his strength and height will get him a few more. Also, who has the last player to average 25-7-7, was it MJ?


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> Who are you to make that assesment that he is too big? That statement of him being too big is ridiculous on so many levels its not even funny. If hes carrying the weight and it obviously hasnt affected his game what does it have to do with his age. Obviously you do not know much about modern weight training techniques. If it were a problem the Cavs would already have had him lose weight. In all honesty when you were young you most likely had more wind than you do now. Believe me the people around him are professionals at the highest level and they know what they are doing.


Who am I? An nba fan with an opinion maybe? It's my opinion that he's too big for his age. And I said it COULD hurt him LATER on in his career. Playing 40 minutes a night, while carrying so much weight at such a young age COULD possibly hurt him down the road. I didn't say it was fact that it would hurt him down the road.


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>theo4002</b>!
> I cant wait for next season, LeBron will get a few extra rebounds from Carlos not being there, then his strength and height will get him a few more. Also, who has the last player to average 25-7-7, was it MJ?


I think it was, 1989.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>theo4002</b>!
> I cant wait for next season, LeBron will get a few extra rebounds from Carlos not being there, then his strength and height will get him a few more. Also, who has the last player to average 25-7-7, was it MJ?


yes, it was MJ. grant hill came close, but his rebounding and assists went down as his scoring went up.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Captain Obvious</b>!
> He's way more athletic than Magic ever was, that was never a really good comparison IMO. Lebron is his own man, let's just admit that there has *never* been a player that combined his strength, athleticism, court vision, and overall basketball IQ at such a young age.


I've already quoted Captain Obvious, but I think some of you johnny come lately's to this thread could stand to reread him.

Fact of the matter is, there's never been a specimen like Lebron James. We simply do not know what the rules are governing a kid like this.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>spriggan9</b>!
> 
> 
> yes, it was MJ. grant hill came close, but his rebounding and assists went down as his scoring went up.


and bird's the last to do 24 / 9 / 7 (24.3 / 9.5 / 7.5), after his back surgery, in '90.


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> 
> 
> and bird's the last to do 24 / 9 / 7 (24.3 / 9.5 / 7.5), after his back surgery, in '90.


ah yes, the year after MJ's 35 8 and 8 season. that's right. MJ came really close in 1990 too, averaging 33.6 6.9 and 6.3.


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>spriggan9</b>!
> 
> 
> ah yes, the year after MJ's 35 8 and 8 season. that's right. MJ came really close in 1990 too, averaging 33.6 6.9 and 6.3.


He also led the league in steals that year.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

Like jazzy1, I still dont buy the whole Magic Johnson comparison, just because Lebrons playmaking and passing ability will never reach that level. Lebron is a scorer, and has an unreal amount of potential there. 

Lebron isnt the most skilled player, but his freakish athleticism really magnifies the skill he does have. My only concern is that he wont be able to stay healthy enough and maintain his freaky athleticism. That type of insane athleticism is real risky when it comes to injury, and I'd hate to see Lebron lose a lot of his quickness and explosiveness to an injury, to added weight, or with age.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jeriqaui</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Man, who could be dumb enough to tatoo "chosen1" *IN HIS BACK????*

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>PauloCatarino</b>!
> 
> 
> Man, who could be dumb enough to tatoo "chosen1" *IN HIS BACK????*
> ...


yeah, tattooing anything inside your back is probably not a good idea.

i agree with you.


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

lebron could possible become this generations wilt chamberlain, or shaq.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PauloCatarino</b>!
> 
> 
> Man, who could be dumb enough to tatoo "chosen1" *IN HIS BACK????*
> ...


Probably someone who doesn't really care what you think about it.

I think it's pretty dope.





> Originally posted by <b>John the Cool Kid</b>!
> Like jazzy1, I still dont buy the whole Magic Johnson comparison, just because Lebrons playmaking and passing ability will never reach that level.


Never say never. And I think at any rate you underrate Lebron's passing ability. I think the olympics should be an eye opening experience for you.


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

lebron is listed at 6'8..doesn't the nba add 1 inch to everyone's height?

so he would be 6'7.... growing 4 inches after you are 18 is possible... everyone is different...

i hope i grow 1-2 more inches..that would be sweet....


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>courtside</b>!
> lebron is listed at 6'8..doesn't the nba add 1 inch to everyone's height?


They measure you in your shoes and sock feet. And take the shoe one, I believe. So that's where your extra inch comes. So Lebron adding two inches probably puts him at 6-9 in sock feet. 6-10 in shoes. The shoe measurment being the only one that matters, as you play basketball in shoes.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> Lebron isnt the most skilled player, but his freakish athleticism really magnifies the skill he does have. My only concern is that he wont be able to stay healthy enough and maintain his freaky athleticism. That type of insane athleticism is real risky when it comes to injury, and I'd hate to see Lebron lose a lot of his quickness and explosiveness to an injury, to added weight, or with age.


Good post. I don't think he's the most skilled player in the world either. His athleticism is what really seperates him from most players his age, not his skill set. Honestly, aside from passing, Lebron is pretty much average-above average in most facets of the game. His shooting is probably below average at this point. His rebounding is good for a guard but nothing special for a player his size. His ball handling skills are good but not on the Iverson-Kobe-TMac level. His speed is what really gets him so many open court baskets. His defense is nothing superb at this point. He plays the passing lanes extremely well but his on the ball defense needs work. Overall, I think people give him more credit than he deserves from a skill standpoint. Really, it is his freakish athleticism that makes him such a great young player. Nobody has ever had the speed, hops, and body control that he has at that size. He'll need to improve his skills in the future to have a chance at being an elite player in the NBA. The Olympics will be a nice opportunity for him to work on his shooting, handles, defense...etc. His work ethic is really going to be tested in the next few years.

BTW, I hope he grew to 6-10. That would be fun to watch. If he grows to 7-0 he'll be able to play every position on the floor.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> Never say never. And I think at any rate you underrate Lebron's passing ability. I think the olympics should be an eye opening experience for you.


I dont think hes overrated as a player, for the most part, but I do think the whole "court vision" angle is a pretty overrated part of his game. I dont think Lebrons court vision and passing ability is all that much better than the likes of say, Jamal Crawford, and Crawford belongs nowhere near the name Magic Johnson. 

I guess Crawford could reach that level though? Never say never.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Actually what seperates Lebron from other players is his work ethic and understanding of the game.

His body itself is a testament to his work ethic. And if you followed the Cavs at all this year you would see how quickly he could make adjustments. His understanding of the game of basketball is highly advanced. I would say he understands the team game more than T-Mac or Kobe. There's some interesting quotes from Larry Brown and Greg Popovich to that effect:




> "He really understands the game," Popovich adds. "Some guys get it and some guys don't. This guy knows what's going on — spatial relationships on the court, where the ball should go, what's going on, what position to be in on the court to make a steal. He really understands how to play the game."





> James is so good, in fact, that he doesn't even have a position.
> 
> "I just want him to play," says head coach Larry Brown. "He already knows how to run every position."





> Teaching is Brown's strong suit and in James, he has the ideal student.
> 
> "He comes to every practice wanting to learn and wanting to get better," Brown says. "He is so competitive, but he also has that enthusiasm where he's excited every practice and he's anxious to get better. Last year playing against him, I couldn't believe how quickly he adjusted, how respectful of the game and of his teammates he was. I had a high regard coming in, but being around him ... he's really special."


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/athens/basketball/2004-07-27-james-impressive_x.htm

To me these are the things that are exciting about James. Moreso than his physical attributes. Those are icing on the cake. This is the stuff that matters though.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Also according to Marc Stein on ESPN.com, Melo has bulked up as well. He's up over 230 now.

Our boys are growing up so fast.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> Also according to Marc Stein on ESPN.com, Melo has bulked up as well. He's up over 230 now.
> 
> Our boys are growing up so fast.


He looked 230+ last season. Good to see nevertheless. Hopefully, he's trimming that baby fat off his body in the process.


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## SamTheMan67 (Jan 4, 2004)

keep in mind pinball this guy is basically a year outta highschool i mean and were comparing him with so many people. Imagine him
in4or5years...
scary..


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> Good post. I don't think he's the most skilled player in the world either. His athleticism is what really seperates him from most players his age, not his skill set. Honestly, aside from passing, Lebron is pretty much average-above average in most facets of the game. His shooting is probably below average at this point. His rebounding is good for a guard but nothing special for a player his size. His ball handling skills are good but not on the Iverson-Kobe-TMac level. His speed is what really gets him so many open court baskets. His defense is nothing superb at this point. He plays the passing lanes extremely well but his on the ball defense needs work. Overall, I think people give him more credit than he deserves from a skill standpoint. Really, it is his freakish athleticism that makes him such a great young player. Nobody has ever had the speed, hops, and body control that he has at that size. He'll need to improve his skills in the future to have a chance at being an elite player in the NBA. The Olympics will be a nice opportunity for him to work on his shooting, handles, defense...etc. His work ethic is really going to be tested in the next few years.


Honestly, I'm not so sure Lebron is more *talented* than Kobe or McGrady their 1st years out of high school. Its just that Kobe and McGrady didnt have the strength or bodies to compete against the rest of the NBA yet. 

Lebrons athleticism is freakish, and thats what makes him so special right out of high school, but I dont think he has more basketball skill than Kobe and McGrady did their first year.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> 
> 
> Honestly, I'm not so sure Lebron is more *talented* than Kobe or McGrady their 1st years out of high school. Its just that Kobe and McGrady didnt have the strength or bodies to compete against the rest of the NBA yet.
> ...


Did you read my post? His basketball IQ is at an amazingly advanced level. That's what makes him special. Not how high he can jump. He just plain knows how to play the game.

Kobe coming out had no idea what he was doing on the floor. he just wanted to score points. T-Mac, I don't remember him even playing.


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## banner17 (Jun 28, 2003)

I'm going to have to agree with the Basketball IQ assessment here. Sure, Lebron's NBA ready body surely hasn't hurt in his success, but it is his understanding of the game that truly is mind blowing. 

All things being equal - had Kobe or T-Mac been built at 19 like they are now, I still doubt that they would have competed at the level that Lebron did this past season. I'm not saying that Lebron will end up being better than Kobe or T-Mac either though. Who knows, the kid could plateau after this season - his game could reach maturation as quickly as his body has, but I think its highly unlikely.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: as in, likely to happen.*



> Originally posted by <b>sherako</b>!
> 
> 
> Don't get too emotional about it, maybe he stays healthy and combines with Melo to form the BronMelo Alien who averages 100 pts 50 rebounds and 25 assists? Its a prediction. What I predicted IS a likely scenario.


I still dont see how it is and I havent witnessed it as of yet ever! I am still trying to understand how IT is a likely scenario. Give me some instances.


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## mysterio (May 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jeriqaui</b>!


Damn, what shoe size does Odom wear?!


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> 
> 
> Who am I? An nba fan with an opinion maybe? It's my opinion that he's too big for his age. And I said it COULD hurt him LATER on in his career. Playing 40 minutes a night, while carrying so much weight at such a young age COULD possibly hurt him down the road. I didn't say it was fact that it would hurt him down the road.


hmm how about this

Magic Johnson 235 when he was drafted 20 years old
Karl Malone 245 when he was drafted 22
Shaquille Oneal 290 when he was drafted 21
Charles Barkley 275 when he was drafted 21
Larry Bird 233 when he was drafted at 22
Moses Malone 247 when he was drafted at 20
I mean I could go on and on. Unfortunately I dont see a basis for your statement.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

A 6'10" Lebron is like a 6'7" Iverson -- horrifying.


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> hmm how about this
> ...


None of those guys u mentioned were playing 40 minutes a game at 18 either. And outside of Magic, none of those guys you mentioned were exactly durable either.


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Tragedy</b>!
> lebron could possible become this generations wilt chamberlain, or shaq.


Bad comparisons


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> 
> 
> None of those guys u mentioned were playing 40 minutes a game at 18 either. And outside of Magic, none of those guys you mentioned were exactly durable either.


Moses Malone played 38.6 mpg in the ABA over 83 games when he was 19.

Vs.

Lebron
39.5 mpg over 79 games

Which actually means Moses played MORE minutes over that season than Lebron did.

Magic meanwhile was at about 37mpg, AND he went to the NBA Finals as a rookie. So he played more minutes than Lebron.

The fact is, your worries are a little overstated. It's certainly a concern if Lebron is playing 40 mpg for 5 or 6 seasons straight. But kid also has exceptional stamina. So who knows what he can or can't get by with playing. His body would make one think he could take it.


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> Moses Malone played 38.6 mpg in the ABA over 83 games when he was 19.
> ...


Like I said. I said it COULD effect him. I didn't say it WOULD effect hm. Will see


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## rocketsthathavespurs (Jul 17, 2004)

i dont think it will be that much of a diff. if any thing i think it will slow him down he should prob play like pf or sf not guard it will make him slower and much more people then odom and garrnet could guard him lol


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> 
> 
> Bad comparisons



thanks for not realizing i was talking about what their impact could be based upon their physical attributes when concerned with their skills...

obviously i wasnt saying they play like either one of them.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> 
> 
> None of those guys u mentioned were playing 40 minutes a game at 18 either. And outside of Magic, none of those guys you mentioned were exactly durable either.


OK well where should I start. I will start with the fact that Karl Malone has before this past 2 seasons had only missed 13 games prior to that?

Larry Bird from 1979-1990 played in 792 possible games out of 902, with him only playing in 6 games in the 88-89 season because of injuries. I can keep going if you want. At least know what you are talking about before posting it


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Tragedy</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You should've said Magic or Mj then.


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> OK well where should I start. I will start with the fact that Karl Malone has before this past 2 seasons had only missed 13 games prior to that?
> ...


I'll give you Malone. But if you miss over 100 gms in your career that's not exactly an iron man. But i'm not going over this anymore. For the last fricken time. I said Lebron playing so many minutes, at his size, at such a young age COULD possibly effect him down the road. By the time he's 25 he will be an 8 year vet with alot more wear and tear on his body then a normal 25 year old. Look at guys Like T-mac and Kobe. They're not exactly iron men. And neither of them were playing 40 minutes a night at 18. If i'm wrong, great. I hope I am. I would hate a potentially great career held back by injury ala Penny/Hill.


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## pErSiSt (Jul 16, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Jeriqaui</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


6*9 then
sweet tattoo


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## SkywalkerAC (Sep 20, 2002)

*The ultimate question...*

If Lebron came into the league at the same time as MJ did, could he have averaged more points?

Personally, I think think it's only a question of opportunity. And when I think about opportunity, I think that EVERY coach in the NBA would give the Lebron that we know (and love) today, the opportunity to do so. Lebron is Mister fast break, there has never been as great a fast break player created (to my knowledge). He really is MJ meets Magic but should develop a better perimeter game than either (because of the time he has to work with). Anyways, time to blaze


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

*Re: The ultimate question...*



> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> If Lebron came into the league at the same time as MJ did, could he have averaged more points?
> 
> Personally, I think think it's only a question of opportunity. And when I think about opportunity, I think that EVERY coach in the NBA would give the Lebron that we know (and love) today, the opportunity to do so. Lebron is Mister fast break, there has never been as great a fast break player created (to my knowledge). He really is MJ meets Magic but should develop a better perimeter game than either (because of the time he has to work with). Anyways, time to blaze


No way. I mean, If Lebron was playing in the 80's that means he would've been born in the 60's. Training, nutrition, etc was much different then. So no way Lebron would be as big as he is now. Lebron obviously wasn't born this way. That's why I don't like to say if this guy today or that guy today was playing back then, what would happen? At this point, Lebron is getting by on size and athleticism. He's not as skilled as a young Mj was. Mj had a quicker 1st step, a better mid range game, better ft shooter, and better defender.
But the kid is no doubt special. Once he develops real basketball skills it's gonna be scary.


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## dmilesai (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>A Seal Clubber</b>!
> If Lebron were 6'10 240, I'm pretty sure most of you would be okay with him doing things out on the perimeter, taking outside shots and handling the ball a lot. But why is it that when someone like Dwight Howard says he wants to be a 3 or when Eddie Griffin hovers out on the perimeter, it's immediately held against them because they are supposed to be "big men" and do "big men" things? Why is Lebron excepted from all this?


Because Howard and Griffin don't have the handles like Lebron. Also, they'd be much better in the post, it's their game (well not so sure about Griffin yet).


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: Re: The ultimate question...*



> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> 
> 
> No way. I mean, If Lebron was playing in the 80's that means he would've been born in the 60's. Training, nutrition, etc was much different then. So no way Lebron would be as big as he is now. Lebron obviously wasn't born this way. That's why I don't like to say if this guy today or that guy today was playing back then, what would happen? At this point, Lebron is getting by on size and athleticism. He's not as skilled as a young Mj was. Mj had a quicker 1st step, a better mid range game, better ft shooter, and better defender.
> But the kid is no doubt special. Once he develops real basketball skills it's gonna be scary.


I guess you didnt really watch Michael at the beginning of his career, because if you knew that your statement of him being not as skilled is quite ridiculous. For one to compare them both at 18 is no comparison because at 18 Lebron is further along in his development than MJ was. 2ndly if you were to compare at this stage in they're careers. MJ was not intially brought in to run the Point position as Lebron was. MJ came in firing away and what did MJ do. He got by on his size and athleticism. The MJ that was winning championships left and right was not the same MJ that came into the league and as far as the mid range game goes, that did *NOT* become a *Consistent* part of MJ's game until after is 3rd season in the league.


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## Spudd (Jun 20, 2004)

Lebron is a freak of nature plain and simple, the sky is truly the limit for the kid because i believe no1 has ever had the amount of potential he has. The scary part is its not his physical attributes that completely set him apart, its also his understanding of how 2 play. And 1 more thing that sets him apart is he seems to have his head screwed on in the right place, Bron gets nothing but praise from every1 who comes into contact with in the basketball world.


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: The ultimate question...*



> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> I guess you didnt really watch Michael at the beginning of his career, because if you knew that your statement of him being not as skilled is quite ridiculous. For one to compare them both at 18 is no comparison because at 18 Lebron is further along in his development than MJ was. 2ndly if you were to compare at this stage in they're careers. MJ was not intially brought in to run the Point position as Lebron was. MJ came in firing away and what did MJ do. He got by on his size and athleticism. The MJ that was winning championships left and right was not the same MJ that came into the league and as far as the mid range game goes, that did *NOT* become a *Consistent* part of MJ's game until after is 3rd season in the league.


First of all. Don't assume crap. I know all about Michael from when he 1st came into the league to when he left for good in 2003. Who the hell compared them both at 18? Not me. I said a young Mj. Meaning his 1st few years in the league. Mj went to college. Therefore comparing them at 18 is pretty stupid.

Nobody said Mj was brought in to run the offense. But he still averaged 5.5/6apg despite not being the teams primary ball handler until 1989, where his assist total blew up to 8 a game. While it's true that MJ was an athletic freak of nature, don't give me that bull that he got by on size. Mj was stick when he 1st came into the league and got bigger and stronger as the years went by.

Mj didn't have a mid range game his 1st 3 years? So he scored over 3000 points his 3rd season off dunks and lay-ups? I didn't think so. Mj was very good from 12-15 feet when he 1st came in. He wasn't a great long range shooter or 3 point shooter till later in his career.

Lebron is NOT as skilled as a young MJ. He's bigger than a young Mj was. And the athleticism is similar. Hes clearly a better passer at this stage. But he has no where near the 1st step quickness Mj had his 1st 3 years or even as a rook. Mj had a better shot from 12-15 feet as a rook than Lebron did. Mj was a much better ft shooter as a rook than Lebron was. And Mj was by far a better defender as a rook than Lebron was last year.

With that being said. That doesn't mean Lebron won't improve in those areas. But until he does, realistic comparisons can't be made.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: The ultimate question...*



> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> 
> 
> First of all. Don't assume crap. I know all about Michael from when he 1st came into the league to when he left for good in 2003. Who the hell compared them both at 18? Not me. I said a young Mj. Meaning his 1st few years in the league. Mj went to college. Therefore comparing them at 18 is pretty stupid.


This is what you wrote


> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> 
> At this point, Lebron is getting by on size and athleticism. He's not as skilled as a young Mj was. Mj had a quicker 1st step, a better mid range game, better ft shooter, and better defender.


 Is that not comparing them??



> Nobody said Mj was brought in to run the offense. But he still averaged 5.5/6apg despite not being the teams primary ball handler until 1989, where his assist total blew up to 8 a game. While it's true that MJ was an athletic freak of nature, don't give me that bull that he got by on size. Mj was stick when he 1st came into the league and got bigger and stronger as the years went by.


Simply this. MJ was 6'6 at 180 which was somewhat imposing for a guard of his size in 1983 when he came out. I see in your profile it says your 20 so I will deduct from what you are saying you really didnt know much about that era of guards to be making that statement



> Mj didn't have a mid range game his 1st 3 years? So he scored over 3000 points his 3rd season off dunks and lay-ups? I didn't think so. Mj was very good from 12-15 feet when he 1st came in. He wasn't a great long range shooter or 3 point shooter till later in his career.


Quite Frankly. Yes. Most of his points were scored on layup, dunks and deep jumpers. The knock on Mike coming out of College was his mid-range game and anyone that watched him coming up will tell you that. In his 3rd season is when he started to use the mid range shot more and more until it became a weapon in his offensive arsenal. He wasnt a good three point shooter but was ok from long range.



> Lebron is NOT as skilled as a young MJ. He's bigger than a young Mj was. And the athleticism is similar. Hes clearly a better passer at this stage. But he has no where near the 1st step quickness. Mj had his 1st 3 years or even as a rook. Mj had a better shot from 12-15 feet as a rook than Lebron did. Mj was a much better ft shooter as a rook than Lebron was. And Mj was by far a better defender as a rook than Lebron was last year.


Now Lebron's quickness is one of the things that NBA people and fans alike have raved about. I never understood why people make Michael Jordan the end all and be all of everything basektball. Theres some things other players did better than Mike or equal to and theres obviously things that he has done better than a good percentage of the players, but to say his first step isnt as quick or as just as quick I am not certain if I want to continue this coversation. Anywhere in this thread I did not say Lebron has a mid range game because quite simply, he doesnt. And as well as Jordan being a better defender but there is also things in Lebron's game that Jordan didnt have when he came out either that lessens the statement of Lebron wasnt as skilled.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: Re: The ultimate question...*



> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> He's not as skilled as a young Mj was. Mj had a quicker 1st step, a better mid range game, better ft shooter, and better defender.
> But the kid is no doubt special.


mj was a role player at nc at this stage (although he was about to really burst onto center stage as a soph).


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## Gmoney (Aug 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>A Seal Clubber</b>!
> If Lebron were 6'10 240, I'm pretty sure most of you would be okay with him doing things out on the perimeter, taking outside shots and handling the ball a lot. But why is it that when someone like Dwight Howard says he wants to be a 3 or when Eddie Griffin hovers out on the perimeter, it's immediately held against them because they are supposed to be "big men" and do "big men" things? Why is Lebron excepted from all this?


Because LeBron has already displayed excellent ball handling skills don't you ever put Howard or Griffin in the same sentence again!!! LeBron is in a class by himself and if the reports are true and he's gained 10 pounds of muscle and grown 2 inches and is now 6'10" watch out NBA. He will still play the same game just at a higher level. When he makes his forays to the hoop 7footers will not bother him as much since he would in essence be there height and one thing people always always forget is that LeBron has a vertical leap the same as Dominique. What will the league be able to do with this guy that's the question?????


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## AZwildcats4 (Feb 9, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> 
> 
> Honestly, I'm not so sure Lebron is more *talented* than Kobe or McGrady their 1st years out of high school. Its just that Kobe and McGrady didnt have the strength or bodies to compete against the rest of the NBA yet.
> ...


That is crazy. Youn cannot get by just on athleticism in the NBA or even in college. Skill is what seperates Lebron from all the other athletic freaks in the league who have done nothing or at least did nothing early in their careers. Darius Miles, James White, Kedrick Brown, Marcus Haislip, Gerald Wallace, etc. Granted Lebron is a probably better athlete than all of them (except White), but he isn't THAT much better. If T-Mac and Kobe were as skilled as Lebron was coming in to the league they would not have rode the pine.


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ultimate question...*



> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> 
> 
> This is what you wrote Is that not comparing them??
> ...


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ultimate question...*



> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> Show me where I said Lebron wasn't quick? I said his 1st step quickness at this point is nowhere near Mj's. Can that change? Will see. Why make Jordan the be all end all? Well don't compare him to Mike then. Don't let Mj come outta your mouth when mentioning Lebron. I was responding to somebody that asked could Lebron score as many points as Mj in the 80's. And I gave my answer on why he couldn't. That's when you jumped in.There r somethings palyers did better than Mike? Ok, but were talking about Lebon. The ONLY thing Lebron has now that a 21 year old Mj didn't have was his physical body. And He had a lil more court awareness. But everything else is all Mj.


do you think mj's quickness & explosiveness changed at all from his freshman year to his rookie season?


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ultimate question...*



> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> Now Lebron's quickness is one of the things that NBA people and fans alike have raved about. I never understood why people make Michael Jordan the end all and be all of everything basektball. Theres some things other players did better than Mike or equal to and theres obviously things that he has done better than a good percentage of the players, but to say his first step isnt as quick or as just as quick I am not certain if I want to continue this coversation. Anywhere in this thread I did not say Lebron has a mid range game because quite simply, he doesnt. And as well as Jordan being a better defender but there is also things in Lebron's game that Jordan didnt have when he came out either that lessens the statement of Lebron wasnt as skilled.


i agree with most of what you're saying, but there is *no way* lebron has a quicker first step right now than young MJ did.

young MJ was a *blur*. he was impossible to stay in front of. he may have the greatest first step ever.

besides, how can you say that lebron has a quicker first step when he outweighs young MJ by like 50 lbs? come on now. take that into account.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ultimate question...*



> Originally posted by <b>spriggan9</b>!
> 
> 
> i agree with most of what you're saying, but there is *no way* lebron has a quicker first step right now than young MJ did.
> ...


Lebron may not be quicker than MJ. But he's a whole heckuva a lot faster. Kid can motor down the court. He has a higher top end than MJ, and is no slouch in reaching it.


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## Spriggan (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ultimate question...*



> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> Lebron may not be quicker than MJ. But he's a whole heckuva a lot faster. Kid can motor down the court. He has a higher top end than MJ, and is no slouch in reaching it.


maybe, but i was talking about strictly first steps 

in a full-on sprint lebron may be faster than young MJ, but first-steps are all about quickness and acceleration, not top-end speed.

i'd say young MJ's acceleration has never been topped..... yet.


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## dork (Mar 21, 2004)

all of u guys jump on people for having diffrent opinions..you should be ashamed of yourselves..Please read the whole message carefully before jumping on the person and making yourself look stupid..


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>dork</b>!
> all of u guys jump on people for having diffrent opinions..you should be ashamed of yourselves..Please read the whole message carefully before jumping on the person and making yourself look stupid..


don't be a dork. what a dorky thing to say.


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## BULLS23 (Apr 13, 2003)

A 6' 10" 250 Bron? That's scary in the East. He could play all five positions some games. If he gets a couple of go-to moves in the post, and shoots like 37-40% from three . . . The L is in trouble.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

he probably will forget play pg and become a sf full time


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ultimate question...*



> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> 
> 
> do you think mj's quickness & explosiveness changed at all from his freshman year to his rookie season?


I haven't seen enough of Mj at North Carolina to give a proper answer. But I have countless old tapes of Mj when he was young. His 1st step was breathtaking.


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>AZwildcats4</b>!
> That is crazy. Youn cannot get by just on athleticism in the NBA or even in college. Skill is what seperates Lebron from all the other athletic freaks in the league who have done nothing or at least did nothing early in their careers. Darius Miles, James White, Kedrick Brown, Marcus Haislip, Gerald Wallace, etc. Granted Lebron is a probably better athlete than all of them (except White), but he isn't THAT much better. If T-Mac and Kobe were as skilled as Lebron was coming in to the league they would not have rode the pine.


Lebron is a great player, no doubt. However, I think that he came into the ideal situation to mature and develop his skills. Cleveland was a terrible team and they didn't have anyone better than him on the perimeter. Kobe walked onto a loaded team in 96'. Shaq was one of the best players in the league. Nick Van Exel and Eddie Jones were All Stars at guard. The rest of team was good and deep. Do you think that Lebron would have just walked in and taken NVE or Eddie Jones' spot as an 18 year old rookie? I don't think that he would have. Obviously, Lebron was better than Kobe at 18 but Kobe wasn't really given a chance to contribute as a rookie. He didn't play significant minutes until the following season and he put up great numbers as a 6th man. Kobe was probably just as good as Jones at that time but Del Harris wasn't about to start a 19 year old player over two proven All Stars. I think that Lebron would have been in a similar situation if he had played on a team as good and as deep as LA. Keep in mind that Del Harris was one of the more conservative coaches in the league. There were other factors besides Kobe's skill level that contributed to him "riding the pine" as a rookie. When he got minutes, he was able to vindicate himself as a player.


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ultimate question...*



> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> Lebron may not be quicker than MJ. But he's a whole heckuva a lot faster. Kid can motor down the court. He has a higher top end than MJ, and is no slouch in reaching it.


What? He wasn't quicker, but he was a whole lot faster? I don't get that one. He has a higher top end than Mj? Can you be more specific?


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## Odomiles (Mar 23, 2004)

I think what he is trying to say is that, while MJ may have been quicker laterally, LeBron James is faster.


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Odomiles</b>!
> I think what he is trying to say is that, while MJ may have been quicker laterally, LeBron James is faster.



Faster as in he can go coast to coast faster? Well that debateble. That's not something I really look at when comparing anybody really.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>AZwildcats4</b>!
> 
> 
> That is crazy. Youn cannot get by just on athleticism in the NBA or even in college. Skill is what seperates Lebron from all the other athletic freaks in the league who have done nothing or at least did nothing early in their careers. Darius Miles, James White, Kedrick Brown, Marcus Haislip, Gerald Wallace, etc. Granted Lebron is a probably better athlete than all of them (except White), but he isn't THAT much better. If T-Mac and Kobe were as skilled as Lebron was coming in to the league they would not have rode the pine.


No thats not it. Lebron was not more talented than Kobe out of HS. The differnce is Kobe came in around 200 pounds, Lebron came in around 240, and 2 inches taller. 

Lebron came in with a mans body and that with his athleticism, among other things, allowed him to have great success.

Kobe was very skilled out of HS, he didnt have the NBA body yet, and he didnt get the minutes with Del Harris because Del believed in bringing him along slowly and there were many players above him on the Laker rotation.


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>bballlife</b>!
> 
> 
> No thats not it. Lebron was not more talented than Kobe out of HS. The differnce is Kobe came in around 200 pounds, Lebron came in around 240, and 2 inches taller.
> ...


I agree with most of that. Another thing i'd give Lebron over Kobe is that he was much more advanced from a knowledge standpoint. All Kobe wanted to do was shoot when he first came in. There were countless times last year that you forgot Lebron was 18. That's how advanced and poised he is. And there's no question Bron is a better passer than Kobe was.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ultimate question...*



> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks I was one year off  Umm 6'6 180 was physically imposing for a 2 guard. The only 2 guard that was legit skill at that time was Clyde Drexler and his stats his first couple years were somewhat paltry. 7.7 pts ppg his first year and 17.2 the next. Not the greatest of stats but not the worst. Would you also like me to give you the heights of the starting SG's from those 2 years. As I said Michael Jordan is not the end all be all of all basketball its clearly debateable if he was the best ever even though Im a fan. So yes I will mention MJ and Lebron in the same breath. 

I also never said his first step was quicker. I said and I quote:{quote]but to say his first step isnt as quick or as just as quick I am not certain if I want to continue this coversation[/quote] Which I still stand by. Also I really think its you that need to check your facts, if he didnt have any defencies in his game he would have been a complete player coming out of North Carolina. As a GM even though size really mattered back then, you dont take Akeem Olajuwon Sam Bowie before the most complete player in the draft. 

I dont know any Bulls or Jordan fan but yourself that doesnt know that, was one of his weaknesses coming out of college. If you knew your Michael Jordan history as you THINK you do, he made it a part of his weapon when he broke his foot in his second season when he came back in mid march of that year. It was above average then and then his 3rd year it was a lethal part of his arsenal. I also am not sure if I can follow you anymore because in your earlier post you say that Lebron is clearly a better passer but now he only had a lil better court awarness.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bballlife</b>!
> 
> 
> No thats not it. Lebron was not more talented than Kobe out of HS. The differnce is Kobe came in around 200 pounds, Lebron came in around 240, and 2 inches taller.
> ...


It's not like Lebron had that body for all 4 years of high school. He was considered the best high schooler ever before he got that body. He bulked up considerably just between his junior and senior years, and he was considered to be a top 3 pick as a Junior in high school.

I don't think there's really any ground to stand on to say Kobe was the better high schooler, because, simply put, he wasn't.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Faster as in he can go coast to coast faster? Well that debateble. That's not something I really look at when comparing anybody really.


It's not really all that debateble. Freethrow line to freethrow line, Steve Nash said Lebron was the fastest player in the L today. If you watched the end of that New Jersey game, you could see the Nets scrambling to try and foul him, and Lebron just running away from them to dunk it and win the game.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bballlife</b>!
> 
> 
> No thats not it. Lebron was not more talented than Kobe out of HS. The differnce is Kobe came in around 200 pounds, Lebron came in around 240, and 2 inches taller.
> ...


maybe I missed it, but you havent expalined one reason why Kobe was more talented coming out of high school


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> I don't think there's really any ground to stand on to say Kobe was the better high schooler, because, simply put, he wasn't.


statistically, he was (better actually). the landscape changed after garnett and then kobe.

they're bodies were different. lebron always had an advanced physical maturity. he was a better, more hyped prospect for alot of reasons, but that doesn't mean he was easily a superior h.s. player.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> lebron always had an advanced physical maturity.


That's not true. Again, he worked for that body. His Junior and Sophmore years he was still regarded as the best, but he was skinny.

Look at other wing players even this year, they don't have Lebron's body. Josh Smith looks like Darius Miles.

All the basketball experts that watch high school ball, said Lebron was the best ever, with the possible exception of Kareem. Kobe's name never came up. KG did. But not Kobe. Putting Kobe as one of the best high schoolers ever is revisionist history as near as I can tell.

And obviously no one puts much of an emphasis on high school stats when evaluating talent, look at this years draft. Compare Shaun Livingston's stats to Telfair. Look at Al Jefferson's stats. Better stats don't mean much in high school. The fact that Lebron played and beat the best every chance he got, was why he was so highly regarded.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> That's not true. Again, he worked for that body. His Junior and Sophmore years he was still regarded as the best, but he was skinny.
> ...


i think you're confusing best prospect with best player. lebron was the best prospect. he weighed 220 as a junior, about 30 lbs more than kobe was as a graduating senior. he was taller. he was always more advanced physically.

lebron showed skills that were unique for a player with his size and athleticism. he wowed with no-look passes and a great feel for the game to go along with the freakish body and athleticism. that doesn't mean he was a superior basketball player than kobe was at that level. kobe broke records and dominated individually. there were more questions about kobe as a pro prospect. but he was a dominant hs player.


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## kflo (Jun 28, 2002)

but this is a battle i cannot win. lebron had more hype, his teams had more overall success. his legend is far greater. he was better as a rookie. it's impossible to put them both in a way-back machine.


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## AZwildcats4 (Feb 9, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> 
> 
> Lebron is a great player, no doubt. However, I think that he came into the ideal situation to mature and develop his skills. Cleveland was a terrible team and they didn't have anyone better than him on the perimeter. Kobe walked onto a loaded team in 96'. Shaq was one of the best players in the league. Nick Van Exel and Eddie Jones were All Stars at guard. The rest of team was good and deep. Do you think that Lebron would have just walked in and taken NVE or Eddie Jones' spot as an 18 year old rookie? I don't think that he would have. Obviously, Lebron was better than Kobe at 18 but Kobe wasn't really given a chance to contribute as a rookie. He didn't play significant minutes until the following season and he put up great numbers as a 6th man. Kobe was probably just as good as Jones at that time but Del Harris wasn't about to start a 19 year old player over two proven All Stars. I think that Lebron would have been in a similar situation if he had played on a team as good and as deep as LA. Keep in mind that Del Harris was one of the more conservative coaches in the league. There were other factors besides Kobe's skill level that contributed to him "riding the pine" as a rookie. When he got minutes, he was able to vindicate himself as a player.


Sure Kobe didn't have the same kind of chance at playing time that Lebron did, but if he had do you really think he would have been a 20 5 and 5 player right off the bat? I would take an 18 year old Lebron over an 18 year old Kobe in a heartbeat. Bigger, stronger, more athletic, better skills, more talent.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Can we put this topic to rest.

Who cares. Let's get on to more relevant topics like "Does Marv Albert still wear panties?"


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ultimate question...*

Thanks I was one year off  Umm 6'6 180 was physically imposing for a 2 guard. The only 2 guard that was legit skill at that time was Clyde Drexler and his stats his first couple years were somewhat paltry. 7.7 pts ppg his first year and 17.2 the next. Not the greatest of stats but not the worst. Would you also like me to give you the heights of the starting SG's from those 2 years. As I said Michael Jordan is not the end all be all of all basketball its clearly debateable if he was the best ever even though Im a fan. So yes I will mention MJ and Lebron in the same breath. 



I'll disagree with you once again. 6'6 at 180 at that time was not imposing. And lets say I agreed with you. That's not the point. Mj didn't overpower players with his size. He relied on superior athleticism/quickness/jumping ability/skills. It wasn't until Mj started bulking up that he started using his size as an advantage over other players. Nobody said Mj was the be all end all. that's something you came up with. You can compare Mj and Lebron all you want. It's a losing argument.




I also never said his first step was quicker. I said and I quote:{quote]but to say his first step isnt as quick or as just as quick I am not certain if I want to continue this coversation[/quote] Which I still stand by. Also I really think its you that need to check your facts, if he didnt have any defencies in his game he would have been a complete player coming out of North Carolina. As a GM even though size really mattered back then, you dont take Akeem Olajuwon Sam Bowie before the most complete player in the draft. 



Once again. Lebron 1st step is nowhere near Mj's 1st step. I don't know what Lebron you saw last year. But ask anybody and they'll tell you how wrong u are.
When did I say Mj was a complete player at that time? I already told you that he didn't have any range outside of 17 feet. But other then that. He didn't have a weakness. Mj's rookie stats=28.2 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 5.9 apg, over 2 steals a game, 51.5 %, 85% from the line. That's damn near complete if you ask me. Why wasn't Mj taken 1st in the draft? LOL. that's pure comedy. The rule was and still is that you always take a quality center over a quality sg. So the Rockets went with dream. The Blazers already had Drexler at sg. So why would they draft Jordan? Even a moron knows that.



I dont know any Bulls or Jordan fan but yourself that doesnt know that, was one of his weaknesses coming out of college. If you knew your Michael Jordan history as you THINK you do, he made it a part of his weapon when he broke his foot in his second season when he came back in mid march of that year. It was above average then and then his 3rd year it was a lethal part of his arsenal. I also am not sure if I can follow you anymore because in your earlier post you say that Lebron is clearly a better passer but now he only had a lil better court awarness.



You lost me here. He made what his weapon after he broke his foot?

He does have a lil more court awareness. And I do think Lebron is a better passer. He's not a MUCH better passer. But having more court awareness makes him a better passer than Mj was as a rook. Is that too hard to understand?


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## Pinball (Aug 3, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> It's not really all that debateble. Freethrow line to freethrow line, Steve Nash said Lebron was the fastest player in the L today. If you watched the end of that New Jersey game, you could see the Nets scrambling to try and foul him, and Lebron just running away from them to dunk it and win the game.


How is it not debatable? You are taking one man's opinion and treating it as gospel. Now, obviously Lebron is extremely fast at moving up and down the floor. It's quite possible that he's the fastest player in the league at doing so. However, you aren't substantiating your points with irrefutable facts. You are using a player's opinion and treating it as factual evidence. In that case, this is a debatable topic. Regardless, what does Lebron possibly being the fastest player in the league today have to do with Jordan? Steve Nash said that Lebron was the fastest player in the league *today*. How can you be so sure that he was faster than Jordan as a rookie?


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Pinball</b>!
> 
> 
> How is it not debatable? You are taking one man's opinion and treating it as gospel. Now, obviously Lebron is extremely fast at moving up and down the floor. It's quite possible that he's the fastest player in the league at doing so. However, you aren't substantiating your points with irrefutable facts. You are using a player's opinion and treating it as factual evidence. In that case, this is a debatable topic. Regardless, what does Lebron possibly being the fastest player in the league today have to do with Jordan? Steve Nash said that Lebron was the fastest player in the league *today*. How can you be so sure that he was faster than Jordan as a rookie?


You read my mind. Very good points.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> It's not like Lebron had that body for all 4 years of high school. He was considered the best high schooler ever before he got that body. He bulked up considerably just between his junior and senior years, and he was considered to be a top 3 pick as a Junior in high school.
> ...


I know that.

I never said Kobe was better, I said Lebron was not more skilled than him out of HS.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kflo</b>!
> 
> 
> i think you're confusing best prospect with best player. lebron was the best prospect. he weighed 220 as a junior, about 30 lbs more than kobe was as a graduating senior. he was taller. he was always more advanced physically.
> ...



Exactly. kflo is making the same points I was going to make.


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## bballlife (Oct 5, 2003)

Few clear ups-

#1 Lebron just might be the fastest from line to line in the NBA. I am having a tough time thinking of anyone else. Mike James is pretty fast with the ball coast to coast.


#2 Lebron does not have a very good first step yet. He clearly has not worked on this yet. MJ's as a rookie was much, much more effective/better. Lebron has a sloppy yet effective jumpstop though, and he uses it a lot.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ultimate question...*



> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> Thanks I was one year off  Umm 6'6 180 was physically imposing for a 2 guard. The only 2 guard that was legit skill at that time was Clyde Drexler and his stats his first couple years were somewhat paltry. 7.7 pts ppg his first year and 17.2 the next. Not the greatest of stats but not the worst. Would you also like me to give you the heights of the starting SG's from those 2 years. As I said Michael Jordan is not the end all be all of all basketball its clearly debateable if he was the best ever even though Im a fan. So yes I will mention MJ and Lebron in the same breath.
> 
> 
> ...



I have broken your argument down point by point to where it is no longer neccessary to continue this diatribe.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>bballlife</b>!
> 
> 
> I know that.
> ...


And you still have not yet said what Kobe was more skilled at and or how he was more skilled than lebron. Your argument is hollowless without merit until you say why?


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

LeBron was 10x the rookie Kobe was. LeBron would not have been coming off the bench behind Eddie Jones, no disrespect to Jones.


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## Spell Checker (Oct 3, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ultimate question...*



> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> Thanks I was one year off  Umm 6'6 180 was physically imposing for a 2 guard. The only 2 guard that was legit skill at that time was Clyde Drexler and his stats his first couple years were somewhat paltry. 7.7 pts ppg his first year and 17.2 the next. Not the greatest of stats but not the worst. Would you also like me to give you the heights of the starting SG's from those 2 years. As I said Michael Jordan is not the end all be all of all basketball its clearly debateable if he was the best ever even though Im a fan. So yes I will mention MJ and Lebron in the same breath.
> 
> 
> ...



Man I cant read any more of your posts. You are making no sense. You act as if you know what you are talking about facts were presented yet you still dispute them. You said earlier in the thread that you cant compare, yet your entire arguement has been a comparison. You've been check mated sir


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ultimate question...*



> Originally posted by <b>BEEZ</b>!
> Which I still stand by. Also I really think its you that need to check your facts, if he didnt have any defencies in his game he would have been a complete player coming out of North Carolina. As a GM even though size really mattered back then, you dont take Akeem Olajuwon Sam Bowie before the most complete player in the draft.
> 
> 
> ...



I have broken your argument down point by point to where it is no longer neccessary to continue this diatribe. [/QUOTE]




You think you've broken my argument down to a point to where it's no longer neccessary to continue. But that's fine with me. This was never an argument as far as i'm concerned. Mj as a rookie was flat out better than Lebron as a rookie. Period



Check this article out by Hubie Brown. As we all know this guy knows his hoops. He could probably disect Mj better than you or me could. Hell he coached against him.

http://www.nba.com/jordan/hubieonjordan.html



I'll copy and paste some of it.
Looking back at Michael Jordan's long and illustrious career, I think the quality that sets him apart from all other players is that he set the bar of excellence at such a high level that in our immediate future, his status is unlikely to ever be challenged. 

When Michael came into the league, he came in with an explosion by averaging 28.2 points in his very first year, shooting 51.5 percent from the field, 84.5 percent from the line, and adding 6.5 rebounds and 5.9 assists a game. So for all of the people who say that he was wasn't a complete player and didn't do everything on the court, I say to them he did do everything! In his very first year! 





From the outset of his career, Michael possessed an unparalleled quickness off the dribble, and his ability to dribble with either hand and finish in the lane with an explosion separated him from the rest of the players in the league. Plus, he always backed up his drives with the high shooting percentages, so defending him was nearly impossible. You could never foul him, because he'd go to the line and make 85 percent. What they had in Chicago was this incredible diamond, but a diamond surrounded by less than a playoff-type athlete. 


As his career moved on, there was a slight step back because of age, but he always had the medium game, those eight to 15 foot shots that are missing in basketball today. Not only did he have that tough medium game, but he could always finish his drives when he went to the hole because of his incredible leaping ability.


Hubie is basically saying everything i've been saying for the last 3 days. He's one of the most knowledgeable basketball people around. I think somebody that's coached against Mj knows what he's talkin about. If this doesn't convince you, then you're in flat out denial. Take it for what it's worth. I'm done with ya.


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ultimate question...*



> Originally posted by <b>Jordan4life_2004</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> I have broken your argument down point by point to where it is no longer neccessary to continue this diatribe.


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ultimate question...*



> Originally posted by <b>Spell Checker</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Man I cant read any more of your posts. You are making no sense. You act as if you know what you are talking about facts were presented yet you still dispute them. You said earlier in the thread that you cant compare, yet your entire arguement has been a comparison. You've been check mated sir


LOL. What the hell?


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## BigMike (Jun 12, 2002)

If this is true about LeBron, then it's over. He's going to tear apart the league.

You guys talk about KG and Odom handling him...now, yes...but in 2 years? HELL no! He literally has unreal potential...and with his seemingly flawless work ethic and attitude, the sky is the limit. He'll probably be able to accomplish...well, whatever he wants to.


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## Jordan4life_2004 (Jul 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>BigMike</b>!
> If this is true about LeBron, then it's over. He's going to tear apart the league.
> 
> You guys talk about KG and Odom handling him...now, yes...but in 2 years? HELL no! He literally has unreal potential...and with his seemingly flawless work ethic and attitude, the sky is the limit. He'll probably be able to accomplish...well, whatever he wants to.


It doesn't matter how tall Lebron is. As long as he's willing to work he'll be great. That means everyday. No takin short-cuts. No resting on you laurels. No buying into his hype. Oh yeah, stayin healthy will be a pretty big factor too.


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## ssmokinjoe (Jul 5, 2003)

Greatness is greatness no matter how tall you are, this is true. But if Lebron has grown a couple more inches then it adds to his ability to see over the defense and shoot over his opponents. The only downside to any growth would be if it creates any awkwardness in his mobility or slows him down as far as quickness on the dribble drive or defensive movement. There would always be some kinda adjustment, big or small, for anyone growing in height or adding weight, fat or muscle. Still, it's only one person's opinion (poppovich) about his new growth, so i won't believe it until someone puts the measuring tape to him.

And as far as all this back and forth about Jordan... i'm gonna have to agree with BEEZ on most of his points, bc i pretty much watched him play throughout his whole carreer and BEEZ's recollection of Jodan's game is pretty much how i remember him.


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