# Vince in Orlando



## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

Rumor is that Orlando is one of the destinations Vince Carter would like to go. Doubtful it would happen, but what would you be willing to give up for Vince? Obviously Howard is definitely not going anywhere. Probably not Francis either. What about guys like Nelson, Bogans, Mobley, Garrity?

Second question is, if Orlando could get Vince, would you want him? I kind of like the way the team is now and I'm not so sure that Carter would be all that much more valuable than Mobley, at least maybe not enough to sacrifice some of the depth this team has put together.

What do you think?


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

I don't know, I really don't want to mess with what we have set up here for now, and I don't think Weisbrod wants to either. Besides the fact that he really can't anytime soon because nearly everyone on our roster was recently traded for or signed. However if we falter out of the gates, and are looking to make a midseason move and Vince is still available, I may look into it. No way I give up Francis for Carter, but besides that everyone is fair game. Perhaps by then Toronto will realize they won't get the value they're looking for and accept a deal including Mobley, Garrity, etc. but I think at this point they wouldn't agree to anything without Francis, and the Magic wouldn't(and shouldn't) part with Francis.


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## crimedog (Jun 3, 2003)

:krazy: 

how about vince for garrity straight up. 

if you want carter without giving up francis, you take on rose and give up cato, nelson, mobley and someone else decent


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>crimedog</b>!
> :krazy:
> 
> how about vince for garrity straight up.
> ...


I don't want Carter. I was just trying assess what other Orlando fans would be willing to give up and whether they would want Carter.

I wouldn't consider Carter's perceived value to really be all that high right now anyway, especially not high enough for someone to take on Rose.


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## Captain Obvious (Jun 15, 2003)

I don't really want him. I don't think Weisbrod would like him and he wouldn't fit into our new team anyway.


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## Yyzlin (Feb 2, 2003)

Any deal for Carter that doesn't involve Dwight Howard or Steve Francis would be simply amazing. Carter is still a top 15-20 player in the league, and you simply don't pass that up because you value far less talented and productive players in Garrity and Mobley more because they have a better attitude.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

LMAO at Magic fans didnt know that Vince Carter is the best on the ball player among the guys can only be effetcive playing off the ball.

Peja, Reggie Miller, Rip Hamilition.

People are *****ing now Ray Allen is better than Vince Carter desipte their smiliar numbers.

Carter was the offense for the Raps last year, Ray Allen was one of the key players in offense for the Sonics there.

One gets to get his points in the flow, the other has to get his points in a slow discipline offense but without any ball movements.

Yes, Carter was often ioslated on the left side, but he does also often gets 3 guts standing on teh strong side. Vince wasnt able to score in early offense like what T-mac could. Kevin O'nell didnt allow Vince to play like that. Or Doc Rivers tried to imply a discipline offense for T-mac in the early going and T-mac was asking for a retirement! LMAO!

The thing Carter is so varable STILL at this point of his career is his off the ball game. He can be effetcive with and without the ball. That is something T-mac, Francis, Marbury couldnt do at the level of helping their team to winning level!

STFU all guys, freaking surface fans!


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## deanwoof (Mar 10, 2003)

i vote no.

tmac is better than vc and we just got rid of him.

also, vince isnt that dominating imo (and he wears braces  )


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>deanwoof</b>!
> i vote no.
> 
> tmac is better than vc and we just got rid of him.
> ...


Well you didnt get rid off Tmac, he left. He obviously had more control of the situation than anyone in the Orlando Magic organization.


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## X-Factor (Aug 24, 2004)

The day that Whiny Injury-Plauged Vince Carter becomes a member of the Magic is the day I switch from a Magic fan to a Heat fan


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>crimedog</b>!
> :krazy:
> 
> how about vince for garrity straight up.
> ...


See, that's what everyone seems to think. Vince will not get that kind of value from anyone right now, it's just not going to happen. I sincerely doubt a trade with Toronto and Orlando happens for Vince. Carter has no leverage, so the Raptors won't get ripped off in a deal for him. Orlando has a completely new team right now, that they're ready to start the season with. They're not going to make a huge trade before at least seeing how this team does. Francis isn't going anywhere, especially without a PG coming back. Fact of the matter is, the pieces aren't there for a trade between these two teams involving Vince. Unless Toronto is willing to trade away Carter for Mobley, and guys like Bogans, Nelson and/or Stevenson, I don't know what else could happen. Oh yeah, no team is crazy enough to take on Rose's contract. Rumor has it New Orleans turned down a Carter+Rose for Magloire+PJ Brown+Filler deal. That should tell you something.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Perhaps by then Toronto will realize they won't get the value they're looking for and accept a deal including Mobley, Garrity, etc.


Not a chance. They don't have to trade him at all, he's on contract for another 3 years. They're not going to give up Carter unless they get another star in return, so forget about these crazy ideas of trading your roleplayers. They'll just keep him. He puts fans in the seat regardless if he's playing well or not.

If you're willing to give up Francis or Howard, it's possible. Else, forget about it.


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## Yao Mania (Aug 4, 2003)

don't mind John guys, he's devastated that his favourite player is beginning to turn his back on the fans

But anyway here's a possible (unlikely) trade:

Toronto trades: SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes) 
PG Alvin Williams (8.8 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 30.9 minutes) 
Toronto receives: PG Steve Francis (16.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 6.2 apg in 40.4 minutes) 
C Tony Battie (5.6 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 0.8 apg in 20.2 minutes) 
Change in team outlook: -9.1 ppg, +2.9 rpg, and -1.8 apg. 

Orlando trades: PG Steve Francis (16.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 6.2 apg in 40.4 minutes) 
C Tony Battie (5.6 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 0.8 apg in 20.2 minutes) 
Orlando receives: SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 73 games) 
PG Alvin Williams (8.8 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 56 games) 
Change in team outlook: +9.1 ppg, -2.9 rpg, and +1.8 apg. 

TRADE ACCEPTED

Toronto: Picks up a franchise player (albeit a disgruntled one that hates Canada) in Steve Francis, and size with Tony Battie. At same time TO manages to get rid of 2 injury prone players with relatively big contracts.

Orlando: A healthy and positive Vince can definately lead this team into the playoffs. Cato can start at C, so Battie is dispensable. Alvin Williams if healthy is capable of starting at PG, until Nelson is ready to take that spot at least.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Minnesota Magician</b>!
> The day that Whiny Injury-Plauged Vince Carter becomes a member of the Magic is the day I switch from a Magic fan to a Heat fan


The day that you are 18 years old is the day that I am 30 years old, in my prime!

F KID!
F ! F !


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

it is required to give up Francis or Howard.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ballscientist</b>!
> it is required to give up Francis or Howard.


Probably. If so, it's not going to happen. That's why I was saying there's little to no chance that Vince gets traded to Orlando. Howard is easily the most untouchable player on our team, no way in hell he's going anywhere. Francis will only be traded if we absolutely suck and he starts whining midseason.


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## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Ballscientist</b>!
> it is required to give up Francis or Howard.


Agreed, which is why we shouldn't try and trade for Vince. Vince has mentioned that Orlando is his first option, but unless we get a deal which doesn't include Francis or Howard I don't think management will do it. Weisbrod mentioned today that he doesn't see a Francis for Carter deal straight up as fair.
I also doubt that Toronto would be willing to deal Carter *and* Bosh for a pairing such as Francis and Garrity. Carter, and SF, is not a real concern of ours at the moment. If there is one player that I believe has been over-valued lately it's Carter. Sure, he's a top 25 player in the NBA, but so is Francis. And we all know that a 1 is harder to find than a 2/3. What would be the point in essentially trading McGrady for Carter, Cato and Mobley? Remember Carter hasn't played a full season since 2000 as well, and has missed many games in the past 3 seasons. He's really a shell of the player that led the Raptors far into the playoffs.

OT: This board has really died over the summer, lets hope it picks up as the season moves closer! Of course, the news surrounding the Orlando Magic has also died since we've done all the changing we physically can to the roster till players clear trade-restrictions from summer trades.


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John</b>!
> 
> 
> The day that you are 18 years old is the day that I am 30 years old, in my prime!
> ...


but you are a true poster and you are entering your prime right now. You dont have much time left of being an elite poster.


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## BallBiologist (Mar 29, 2003)

would be sweet if we could trade couple of these guys for cater:

bogans, stevenson, mobely, hedo, future 1st or 2nd rounders, augmon, garrity, hill

let them pick 1 good player and a couple of other otpinos..but thats not gonna happen

hehe


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## GreenDay (Aug 28, 2004)

A Francis Vince Howard combo is better than any depth Bench with Garrity Mobley Etc


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>GreenDay</b>!
> A Francis Vince Howard combo is better than any depth Bench with Garrity Mobley Etc


That would be pretty good, but it would take Toronto deciding to give up and start rebuilding completely to accept some Orlando role players for Vince. More than doubtful. Plus recent comments by Weisbrod make you think he is pretty happy with the team now and doesnt want to tinker anymore for now.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>JNice</b>!
> 
> 
> That would be pretty good, but it would take Toronto deciding to give up and start rebuilding completely to accept some Orlando role players for Vince. More than doubtful. Plus recent comments by Weisbrod make you think he is pretty happy with the team now and doesnt want to tinker anymore for now.


Plus we don't have many expiring contracts to offer them, and none of any decent size(I think DeClercq's is the biggest) which is something that would probably entice them if we had them. Unfortunately we don't, so I don't see a deal happening.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Lachlanwood32</b>!
> OT: This board has really died over the summer, lets hope it picks up as the season moves closer! Of course, the news surrounding the Orlando Magic has also died since we've done all the changing we physically can to the roster till players clear trade-restrictions from summer trades.



Things have been slow, but there really isnt much going on with the team. Things will pick up once the season starts. I've been checking the normal sites daily for any news but there really hasn't been.

The only real pressing question right now is whether Michael Bradley or Mario Kasun will be on the team. Which I am a junkie, but you gotta draw your limits somewhere.  

In many circumstances a Hill return might be discussion worthy, but I think we've all been through that before too many times.


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## TommyAngel21 (Oct 5, 2004)

I would love to have Vince, and i think we could give up Franics. Mobley or Nelson could run the point, Carter at the 2 guard, Hill at SF, D-Ho at pf, and Cato at center...great lineup, I dont think Carter would whine as much with Hill and Howard, but you would have to watch his injuries, Carter is an amazing player if not for the injuries, and remeber who started over McGrady in Toronto? VC


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## lw32 (May 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TommyAngel21</b>!
> I would love to have Vince, and i think we could give up Franics. Mobley or Nelson could run the point, Carter at the 2 guard, Hill at SF, D-Ho at pf, and Cato at center...great lineup, I dont think Carter would whine as much with Hill and Howard, but you would have to watch his injuries, Carter is an amazing player if not for the injuries, and remeber who started over McGrady in Toronto? VC


Vince was a great player, and can still return to form, but I wouldn't want him any more than Francis. I believe that Francis needs to be given a chance before we even consider trading him. If you ask me, last season was just a rough spot in his career, and he should easily be able to return to form this year with a 20-6-6 season. Francis' ability to play the point (albeit he's not a pure point) is what gives him more value than Carter. Although Carter is great, he doesn't seem to have the same desire as before and the injuries are a put-off.
By the way, the reason Carter started over McGrady was because McGrady was still young, learning and came straight out of High School. Carter was the better player in Toronto, but I don't think you can even question McGrady has been superior to Carter in the previous 2 seasons at least.


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## TommyAngel21 (Oct 5, 2004)

True that Carter was the better player, and still might be if the injuries wouldnt have held him back, taking nothing away from McGrady who is my all time favorite player. Francis did have a bad year, but so did Carter well VC has had a couple of bad years, but i want to see him turn it all around and i dont think thats possible in Toronto, in my opinion he would better benefit us than Francis would.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TommyAngel21</b>!
> True that Carter was the better player, and still might be if the injuries wouldnt have held him back, taking nothing away from McGrady who is my all time favorite player. Francis did have a bad year, but so did Carter well VC has had a couple of bad years, but i want to see him turn it all around and i dont think thats possible in Toronto, in my opinion he would better benefit us than Francis would.


Both guys have their drawbacks, but Francis imo has shown more toughness on the court than Carter. And if you consider the team as it is now, we've got plenty of wing players and moving Francis for Carter would give us another wing and only a rookie at PG.

If we had maybe one more decent big man (maybe Kasun?) this team would have near perfect depth and balance. We've got at least two guys at every position. Carter for Francis would throw off that balance a bit.


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## TommyAngel21 (Oct 5, 2004)

Yeah ill admit Francis is tougher, but i just like Carters style of play. I believe I would like Carter more though, if he wasnt injuried most of the time, because Orlando does have interest in Hill running the point some so that means Francis would move to the 2..and i think Carter would be better there, but i get what ur sayin it might make us and it might make us better...its just a chance.


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TommyAngel21</b>!
> Yeah ill admit Francis is tougher, but i just like Carters style of play. I believe I would like Carter more though, if he wasnt injuried most of the time, because Orlando does have interest in Hill running the point some so that means Francis would move to the 2..and i think Carter would be better there, but i get what ur sayin it might make us and it might make us better...its just a chance.


Carter has always been one of my favorite players, along with 30 million other people ... obviously he has always been exciting to watch but he has always frustrated me because he could never toughen up and get himself to that top level like Tmac and Kobe, even though it appeared he had the talent to do so. So much of basketball is mental and I just don't think Carter has the mental toughness to ever be a bigtime winner. But that is purely a personal opinion.


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## TommyAngel21 (Oct 5, 2004)

Yeah that is true also..but people can change..and maybe Carter will change for the better..you can never tell in the NBA


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>TommyAngel21</b>!
> Yeah that is true also..but people can change..and maybe Carter will change for the better..you can never tell in the NBA


He is still relatively young in NBA terms, so he's got a chance. But it basically needs to happen now, this season. His knee injuries would scare me off as well since without good knees, Vince is no longer Vince.


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## TommyAngel21 (Oct 5, 2004)

That is also true, Vince is known for his highflying, without knees you cant, knees and ankles are botherin him, but im hoping hes gotten better. I doubt he will come to Orlando but im just hoping it would happen.


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