# Rate Jeremy Lin



## michelangelo (Apr 29, 2009)

I've been reading some of the other boards, and the caliber of discussion is horrendously bad on this and other topics. Sports fans can't be and won't ever be perfectly rational, but I couldn't get one thoughtful opinion anywhere on this issue. Hopefully this will change here. 

I'm a big fan; Lin brought me back to the game, when I was on the brink of writing off the nba as a cesspool. Stern's corruption, donaghy's allegations, rape charges, lebron-gate, etc etc, just soured me on the league. 

Linsanity was an absolute marvel to behold. His teammates were going crazy, and the garden was a nonstop party every time Lin stepped on the floor. 

---

This season, while not quite disastrous for lin, has been a major disappointment so far. As a Lin fan, I am obviously going to give him the benefit of the doubt: knee surgery, a coach who doesn't believe in him (sampson), and an obvious sharp decline in confidence, have all worked against him. 

I still think this kid has the handles, the speed and the swagger, in the right situation, to be a very good PG. Obviously, I don't think HOU is the right situation for him. 

What's your take.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

Perhaps you don't like the discussion on this topic because you inherently believe it should all be positive?

He's a severely overrated player by casual fans who reaped the benefits of his steep uprising by garnering a hefty contract from a team desperate for a player who draws eyeballs. I don't think his ceiling is much higher than Luke Ridnour.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

Luke Ridnour could never have done what Lin did last year. No way. Lin has some talent, and in the right situation - can leverage it. Houston is not the right situation though, and Lin's talents need that. He is very much a system player - in the right system he's a superstar. Ridnour? No system could make him that.


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## Pacers Fan (Aug 25, 2002)

Lin's in the bottom 5 of starting PGs in the NBA. I'd almost rather have Luke Ridnour, who isn't so turnover-prone and can actually hit a shot.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

ChrisWoj said:


> Luke Ridnour could never have done what Lin did last year. No way. Lin has some talent, and in the right situation - can leverage it. Houston is not the right situation though, and Lin's talents need that. He is very much a system player - in the right system he's a superstar. Ridnour? No system could make him that.


There is no world in which Jeremy Lin would be a superstar in basketball. That's insulting to the real superstar PG's (CP3, D-Will, Rose, etc.).


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

I have him in the prime Mike Bibby range.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

He will never be the shooter that a prime Mike Bibby or Luke Ridnour have been. I see his ceiling somewhere in the Jason Williams range.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

I didnt think he'd repeat what he achieved in New York but man he's not even repeating what he achieved in limited PT at GSW - he has been wretched

couple that with how good Felton has been playing in New York and for once it looks like the NYK front office got something right


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## King Sancho Fantastic (Jul 19, 2005)

He's a better playmaker than Bibby and Ridnour though from what I've seen. Admittedly I haven't seem too much if him. From the few games ive witnesed, i see him as a solid third or fourth option.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> He's a better playmaker than Bibby and Ridnour though from what I've seen. Admittedly I haven't seem too much if him. From the few games ive witnesed, i see him as a solid third or fourth option.


He's a better playmaker than Ridnour, but not Bibby. Prime Mike Bibby was a very good creator with the basketball. Lin has good court vision, but he's not Ricky Rubio by a longshot.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

He isn't a spot up shooter. He can't catch and shoot. I think he can be effective with the ball in his hands, that was his role during Linsanity, and not so effective off the ball. When Melo came back he took the ball out of his hands and now Harden has the ball in Houston.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

Lin needs the ball in his hands and needs to be more assertive, even with Harden next to him. Linsanity was very real and no matter how you want to slice the lack of scouting report, Lin has very high potential. I like the Bibby comparison in terms of potential and impact, their game are different but with the right work ethic and improvement, I can see him make an all star or two.

He is not a #1 option and will most likely need to be playing with a dominant big to unleash his full potential. That way, he can have the ball in his hands enough and he is good at making plays so he will find the big enough.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

He needs to improve his defense dramatically though. He has the necessary skills (court vision, IQ, foot speed).

Him and Love could be a great duo.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Lin's and Harden's games both suffer greatly because they play the majority of their minutes with Omer Asik as their primary pick-and-roll partner. They both take turns setting him up beautifully only to see him brick lay-ups and fumble the ball out-of-bounds. Deezy makes a good point. It would be nice to see that team pick up a great pick-and-roll/pick-and-pop big to go with their current core. Asik is no more than a defensive stopper/rebounder at this stage of his career. He's got some of the worse hands in the league.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

the rockets are a team that could really use Pau but I dont see the pieces in place to make something work


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

e-monk said:


> the rockets are a team that could really use Pau but I dont see the pieces in place to make something work


I think a guy like Paul Millsap would ever do them some good. Pau would be perfect, though. That would even be a good destination for Boozer once he's amnestied.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Adam said:


> He isn't a spot up shooter. He can't catch and shoot. I think he can be effective with the ball in his hands, that was his role during Linsanity, and not so effective off the ball. When Melo came back he took the ball out of his hands and now Harden has the ball in Houston.


Where would you rate him on the Norris Cole scale?


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

e-monk said:


> the rockets are a team that could really use Pau but I dont see the pieces in place to make something work


They can give us Scola, Martin and Dragic?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Basel said:


> There is no world in which Jeremy Lin would be a superstar in basketball. That's insulting to the real superstar PG's (CP3, D-Will, Rose, etc.).


As usual you're completely wrong. If he were playing in the Philippines Basketball Association system he'd be Michael ****ing Jordan. Even if Jeremy Lin is Hokkien for Smush Parker.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Thread officially derailed.


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

He's not very good. At all. His best role is probably coming off the bench so that he can play with/against subs and have the ball in his hands to make things happen.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

Lin sucks. We let Lowry go for a pick and Dragic walking. What a **** up. Thankfully, Omar Asik has been awesome.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

OneBadLT123 said:


> Thankfully, Omar Asik has been awesome.


Sarcasm?


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

Jamel Irief said:


> They can give us Scola, Martin and Dragic?


hold on a sec, let me check what year it is... dammit!


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

RollWithEm said:


> Sarcasm?


Nope. For what I and many other Houston fans originally thought, this guy was going to be a stiff. He is anything but. Yeah he isn't some dominating force down low, but for a big man who plays exceptional defense, protects the paint fairly well, and plays 110% every single night, dude has been a bargain. Considering players like Hibbert, Deandre Jordan and idiot McGee who are getting paid 10-13+ million per who are producing around or below Osik's current level, Osik at an average of 8.4 is a bargain. 

My only faul against him is he needs to learn to finish around the basket better as he has missed some easy buckets. Hopefully that will come with time though as this is his first season with any significant playing time.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

OneBadLT123 said:


> Nope. For what I and many other Houston fans originally thought, this guy was going to be a stiff. He is anything but. Yeah he isn't some dominating force down low, but for a big man who plays exceptional defense, protects the paint fairly well, and plays 110% every single night, dude has been a bargain. Considering players like Hibbert and Jordan who are getting paid 10-13 million per aren't producing as well, Osik at an average of 8.4 is a bargain.
> 
> My only faul against him is he needs to learn to finish around the basket better as he has missed some easy buckets. Hopefully that will come with time though as this is his first season with any significant playing time.


He rebounds and defends very well, but he's a horrible offensive player that really drags the team down. He's a bad passer, a bad shooter, a bad finisher, and has bad hands. He should not be a starting center in this league IMO.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

RollWithEm said:


> He rebounds and defends very well, but he's a horrible offensive player that really drags the team down. He's a bad passer, a bad shooter, a bad finisher, and has bad hands. He should not be a starting center in this league IMO.


The dude has only played 18 meaningful games in his career. His minute total in these 18 games is already over half his total minutes played last year (66 games) and the year before that (82 games). They guy has a lot to learn obviously, but he has not been some horrible terror on offense.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

OneBadLT123 said:


> The dude has only played 18 meaningful games in his career. His minute total in these 18 games is already over half his total minutes played last year (66 games) and the year before that (82 games). They guy has a lot to learn obviously, but he has not been some horrible terror on offense.


Other than his decent offensive rebounding, he's been pretty abysmal at the end of the floor so far. I'm not saying he can't get better. I'm just saying he needs to.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

I haven't watched enough of Houston to actually argue this myself, but I've been hearing Asik's passing has been a pleasant surprise.



Luke said:


> He's not very good. At all. His best role is probably coming off the bench so that he can play with/against subs and have the ball in his hands to make things happen.


Exactly. People talking about how he can be Mike Bibby and all that nonsense if he just had the ball in his hand non-stop, even if that's true, that team is winning 25 games a season. If you need all of those personnel and systemic stipulations, he's nowhere near a superstar. I really thought everyone got over the drunkeness of Linsanity, and through a vicious hangover realized in retrospect how foolish they looked dancing on the table tops and declaring him the next Steve Nash. I guess some are still drunk on him.


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## michelangelo (Apr 29, 2009)

Jace said:


> I haven't watched enough of Houston to actually argue this myself, but I've been hearing Asik's passing has been a pleasant surprise.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. People talking about how he can be Mike Bibby and all that nonsense if he just had the ball in his hand non-stop, even if that's true, that team is winning 25 games a season. If you need all of those personnel and systemic stipulations, he's nowhere near a superstar. I really thought everyone got over the drunkeness of Linsanity, and through a vicious hangover realized in retrospect how foolish they looked dancing on the table tops *and declaring him the next Steve Nash*. I guess some are still drunk on him.


*
Steve Nash was averaging 7 pts a game and shooting 36%* from the field when he was 24 years of age. So, no one wants that.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

RollWithEm said:


> He rebounds and defends very well, but he's a horrible offensive player that really drags the team down. He's a bad passer, a bad shooter, a bad finisher, and has bad hands. He should not be a starting center in this league IMO.


Yes, but we can say all the same things about Kendrick Perkins, who's getting more and providing less than Asik. Given what I was expecting from Asik I've been relieved. Lin, on the other hand, sucks.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

michelangelo said:


> *
> Steve Nash was averaging 7 pts a game and shooting 36%* from the field when he was 24 years of age. So, no one wants that.


And Steve was a crazy-rare case. That doesn't work as evidence to make it a reasonable comparison.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

Maybe it's not Samson. McHale is back and Douglas has played 8 more minutes than Lin. Lin is out with 8 minutes left. Reminder: Toney Douglas is awful.


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## michelangelo (Apr 29, 2009)

Jace said:


> And Steve was a crazy-rare case. That doesn't work as evidence to make it a reasonable comparison.


You are incoherent. I just said that a nash comparison was silly and now you are agreeing with me but too dim witted to realize it. 

Steve Nash was a dog for 3 straight seasons. steve nash wasn't Steve Nash until he was plugged into the dantoni system.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

michelangelo said:


> You are incoherent. I just said that a nash comparison was silly and now you are agreeing with me but too dim witted to realize it.
> 
> Steve Nash was a dog for 3 straight seasons. steve nash wasn't Steve Nash until he was plugged into the dantoni system.


and then also he was steve nash later under the gentry system but maybe too he was steve nash a little bit under the don nelson system for 4 years before D'Antoni where he was with the mavs and going to a couple all star games or....

you know, whatever other facts that might undermine the whole "steve nash, system player" meme someone might be trying to purvey


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Just watched the Rockets/Mavericks game in it's entirety. Should be noted that while Jeremy starts, he played 18 minutes, while the "backup" point guard Toney Douglas played 34 minutes. I still think he's a pick and roll point guard that needs picks set for him to create separation from the defense.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

michelangelo said:


> You are incoherent. I just said that a nash comparison was silly and now you are agreeing with me but too dim witted to realize it.
> 
> Steve Nash was a dog for 3 straight seasons. steve nash wasn't Steve Nash until he was plugged into the dantoni system.


Calm down. Your post wasn't all that coherent, to use the word _properly_. Has nothing to do with "dim" wits, plucko. It appeared you were arguing that Steve wasn't stellar early in his career so Lin could reach his level. A simple mistake. It's difficult to read tone on the internet, especially when you're expecting people who quote you to be disagreeing. No need to get hostile. And you should probably learn how to use words properly before attacking someone's intelligence.

And as e-monk mentioned, Steve has been very good away from D'Antoni, further contributing to the misunderstanding of your post.

Back on topic, McHale played Douglas nearly twice as many minutes tonight (18 to 35). Toney Douglas.










And yeah, maybe he's still not 100% from the knee surgery, but he sure does have trouble getting one-on-one separation.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

kbdullah said:


> Just watched the Rockets/Mavericks game in it's entirety. Should be noted that while Jeremy starts, he played 18 minutes, while the "backup" point guard Toney Douglas played 34 minutes. I still think he's a pick and roll point guard that needs picks set for him to create separation from the defense.


He doesn't have a big who sets good screens OR a big who rolls with authority to catch and finish. In short, he needs Tyson Chandler.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

he has a PER of 12 - he is playing atrocious ball, PER 15 is average, barbosa is playing better than him - he sucks - signed, ball scientist


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

I'll give him at least a full season before I commit to believing he flat out sucks, though I'm already sure he falls way short of what many thought he was last season. I hear the argument he needs a better big man to work with, and would like to see him play with one before coming to any sort of final conclusion. Playing in a backcourt with a creator/handler like Harden, though, masks some of his own flaws in those areas.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Lin does not "suck". You can't do what he did last year and "suck". What he is, is a player who can only succeed in very specific situations and systems. Houston with James Harden as the primary playmaker is not that situation. I firmly believe Lin would be having a good year if Harden was not in the picture. Having a center that can finish instead of Asik would be ideal too.


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## e-monk (Sep 10, 2010)

he is actively sucking right now, this year, harder than a porn star in a 6 on 1

but who are you going to believe? your preconception or your own lying eyes?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

hobojoe said:


> Lin does not "suck". You can't do what he did last year and "suck". What he is, is a player who can only succeed in very specific situations and systems. Houston with James Harden as the primary playmaker is not that situation. I firmly believe Lin would be having a good year if Harden was not in the picture. Having a center that can finish instead of Asik would be ideal too.


"Linsanity" lasted for about ten games last year. After that the results got considerably more shaky. I know it's _de rigueur_ to blame Carmelo for "ruining" Jeremy Lin. But is Lin really any different from, say, Billy Ray Bates? I mean, Linsanity basically lasted just about as long as it took for scouts to put together a book on him.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

hobojoe said:


> Lin does not "suck". You can't do what he did last year and "suck". What he is, is a player who can only succeed in very specific situations and systems. Houston with James Harden as the primary playmaker is not that situation. I firmly believe Lin would be having a good year if Harden was not in the picture. Having a center that can finish instead of Asik would be ideal too.


If he didn't share the ball with another strong handler/playmaker, he'd average 8 TO's a game.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Lin is who I thought he was. I never expected him to reach the heights of a 20/8 PG on a permanent basis, and his game has a lot of holes.

Ironic that Toney Douglas is stealing his minutes in Houston, after the opposite happened in New York.

Despite the huge start to his career, Lin finished last season at 14 and 6 in 27 minutes. He's at 10/4/6 in 32 minutes now. If he was shooting around 44% instead of 38%, he'd be more serviceable - but his offense is shocking at the moment. No range, and can't finish inside. Not a great combo.

Maybe he'll revert to 14/4/6 soon, which isn't bad if he can tone the turnovers down. But he's no franchise player.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Flip Murray didn't have a sucky career either. He was just a good backup. 


Sent from my iPhone using Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

Wait, where did Flip Murray come from?


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

RollWithEm said:


> He doesn't have a big who sets good screens OR a big who rolls with authority to catch and finish. In short, he needs Tyson Chandler.


Yep, said this in another thread, but didn't want to do another full monologue on it.



hobojoe said:


> Lin does not "suck". You can't do what he did last year and "suck". What he is, is a player who can only succeed in very specific situations and systems. Houston with James Harden as the primary playmaker is not that situation. I firmly believe Lin would be having a good year if Harden was not in the picture. Having a center that can finish instead of Asik would be ideal too.


The Rockets are perfectly happy letting Harden handle the ball, surrounding him with shooters, therefore granting Douglass get the lion's share of the pg minutes. They'll probably continue to tread water doing that too, until some intrepid reporter comes along and asks the obvious question and it becomes awkward.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Jace said:


> If he didn't share the ball with another strong handler/playmaker, he'd average 8 TO's a game.


That's an exaggeration, but yes he'd very likely lead the league. I'm not saying it'd be a smart strategy to make him your franchise player and let him dominate the ball, but he's capable of doing it reasonably well for a mediocre team. He can make plays around the rim pretty well. Throw him on Phoenix this year instead of Dragic and I bet he's putting up good numbers and the Suns have a better record. I also think Dragic would be a much better fit on Houston with Harden than Lin is.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

hobojoe said:


> Throw him on Phoenix this year instead of Dragic and I bet he's putting up good numbers and the Suns have a better record. I also think Dragic would be a much better fit on Houston with Harden than Lin is.


I actually agree with both of those points.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Jace said:


> Wait, where did Flip Murray come from?


Nowhere to average 20 ppg for a month just like Jeremy Lin.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

Gotcha, his injection into this thread just seemed a little out of nowhere.



hobojoe said:


> *That's an exaggeration*, but yes he'd very likely lead the league. I'm not saying it'd be a smart strategy to make him your franchise player and let him dominate the ball, but he's capable of doing it reasonably well for a mediocre team. He can make plays around the rim pretty well. Throw him on Phoenix this year instead of Dragic and I bet he's putting up good numbers and the Suns have a better record. I also think Dragic would be a much better fit on Houston with Harden than Lin is.


Definitely. I thought about going way higher to make it obvious, but I figured people would recognize it as such regardless.

Don't know about those Dragic comments. Why do you think he'd make PHX better than Dragic?


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## GrandKenyon6 (Jul 19, 2005)

He's Flip Murray. I'm glad someone else recognizes it.

Flip was a serviceable backup for most of his career though, and I'm not sure Lin will be. There's a reason this guy has been in and out of the D-League. He can't shoot, he can't defend, his dribble is way too high, he's a poor decision-maker and a turnover waiting to happen, and he has only moderate quickness. The only way for him to be effective at all is if he has the ball in his hands the majority of the time, but he's not good enough to have the ball in his hands.

He will never be as good as Bibby was. That's absurd. Bibby was a borderline level All-Star player. Lin will never approach that.

I wouldn't hesitate to take Ridnour over Lin either. Ridnour is a steady backup point guard who spaces the floor, plays under control, and can fill in as a starter adequately if necessary. Lin doesn't do what I would want from a backup 1, and he's certainly not good enough to be a full-time starter.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

GrandKenyon6 said:


> The only way for him to be effective at all is if he has the ball in his hands the majority of the time, but he's not good enough to have the ball in his hands.


This, in a nutshell, is my problem with him. I mean, I consider this a problem with Rondo, and it's a big reason that I think he's so tough to construct a team around. But at least Rondo's _good_. Lin doesn't even have that going for him.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Jace said:


> Gotcha, his injection into this thread just seemed a little out of nowhere.


hobojoe mentioned that players don't average what Lin did in a month stretch if they suck.

As for Lin, I said this last year but he's a less explosive Tyreke Evans to me.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

GrandKenyon6 said:


> He's Flip Murray. I'm glad someone else recognizes it.
> 
> Flip was a serviceable backup for most of his career though, and I'm not sure Lin will be. There's a reason this guy has been in and out of the D-League. He can't shoot, he can't defend, his dribble is way too high, he's a poor decision-maker and a turnover waiting to happen, and he has only moderate quickness. The only way for him to be effective at all is if he has the ball in his hands the majority of the time, but he's not good enough to have the ball in his hands.
> 
> ...


Co-signed. And would also add that Lin has some work to do to become as crafty a scorer as Flip was.


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## Wade County (Jun 22, 2003)

Linsanity going off today :laugh:


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Have Lin & Douglas hit 50 yet? San Antonio seemed to be sleepwalking while I was watching.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

Wow and this is the week I have a bye in Fantasy. D-Lee, Wade, Lin light it up Josh Smith hitting 4 three's. ****ing bullshit. my league is 9 Cat...


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

Can we ban fantasy talk from the non-fantasy forums? I couldn't care less.



> @*stackmack*   Lin has 32 points in 31 minutes on 15 FGA right now. #*Rockets*


Very nice. OP must be launching confetti in his room right now.


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## doctordrizzay (May 10, 2011)

Jace said:


> *Can we ban fantasy talk from the non-fantasy forums? I couldn't care less.
> *
> 
> 
> Very nice. OP must be launching confetti in his room right now.


Then don't respond? It takes .5 seconds to read...if you couldn't care less...why would you want it banned? :ehhh::ehhh:


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

What a shocker, James Harden is out and Lin is over 30 points already. All the while Houston is hanging with the 17-4 San Antonio Spurs. 

He's not Flip Murray guys. Flip had a stretch where he scored well at the beginning of the season for a roughly .500 team with Rashard Lewis being the first option, not Murray. What he did was a step above what Jeremy Pargo just did for Cleveland the past couple weeks with Irving out. Lin put up much better numbers and won games. He's a more than capable playmaker with the ball in his hands. There's nothing wrong with that. Like I said, he's not ideal in a lot of situations (like playing with James Harden or Carmelo Anthony) but he's not some scrub who shouldn't be in the league. He can play.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Jace said:


> Gotcha, his injection into this thread just seemed a little out of nowhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dragic would be a better fit with more talent around him. A guy who can use his teammates well, put them in positions to succeed and fit in with the offense. He's not consistently assertive enough to control games. Lin can and will do that, which he would be asked to do in Phoenix. He did it in NY, he's doing it tonight and he could do it in Phoenix. You're not going to win a title with him dominating the ball for 40 minutes a night, but he can at least keep you competitive. He's not garbage like some of you seem to think, he's just only usable in certain situations because he has some very glaring weaknesses.


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## michelangelo (Apr 29, 2009)

OneBadLT123 said:


> Lin sucks. We let Lowry go for a pick and Dragic walking. What a **** up. Thankfully, Omar Asik has been awesome.


No way Jose


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## michelangelo (Apr 29, 2009)

Jace said:


> Maybe it's not Samson. McHale is back and Douglas has played 8 more minutes than Lin. Lin is out with 8 minutes left. Reminder: Toney Douglas is awful.


Nada


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## michelangelo (Apr 29, 2009)

GrandKenyon6 said:


> *He's Flip Murray. I'm glad someone else recognizes it.*
> 
> Flip was a serviceable backup for most of his career though, and I'm not sure Lin will be. There's a reason this guy has been in and out of the D-League. He can't shoot, he can't defend, his dribble is way too high, he's a poor decision-maker and a turnover waiting to happen, and he has only moderate quickness. The only way for him to be effective at all is if he has the ball in his hands the majority of the time, but he's not good enough to have the ball in his hands.
> 
> ...


Nah


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## michelangelo (Apr 29, 2009)

Jace said:


> Co-signed. And would also add that Lin has some work to do to become as crafty a scorer as Flip was.


Nope


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

lin is a good player but he definitely hasn't played well so far this year. him and harden probably do need to do a better job of balancing the work load since lin seems to thrive when he has a chance to run things, but I'm sure that will come with more time and actual coaching. and what the rockets really need is some type of post player on offense who can take a little of the attention away from lin/harden. really don't understand why donatas hasn't gotten a chance to pick up some of the minutes there.


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## michelangelo (Apr 29, 2009)

rocketeer said:


> lin is a good player but he definitely hasn't played well so far this year. him and harden probably do need to do a better job of balancing the work load since lin seems to thrive when he has a chance to run things, but I'm sure that will come with more time and actual coaching. and what the rockets really need is some type of post player on offense who can take a little of the attention away from lin/harden. really don't understand why donatas hasn't gotten a chance to pick up some of the minutes there.


It's really on the coaches to do at least a reasonably competent job of allowing both players to contribute. McHale and Sampson are absolutely clueless about how to do that. 

Lin should've had 12 assists or more. Asik should have 30+ pts. He received an endless number of gimme's, all night long from Lin.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

:laugh:

Would've loved to see what you wrote to me. Thought my quotes were pretty benign. You started a thread saying you didn't like conversations you previously saw on Lin, and pounce on everyone who disagrees with your views that he's super-awesome. See anything off about that?

Odd that you showed back up after he went for 38...


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Jace said:


> Odd that you showed back up after he went for 38...


Glad you said it.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

38pts on over 50%FG, 4-5 from 3pt, 7 ast, 2 stl, 2 blck with only 2 TO against the Spurs is not shabby.

I think a lot of you are writing him off way too quickly.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

He got hot. No one game is truly indicative of how good or bad a player is. Remember the night Tony Delk went 20-27 and scored 53 points?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200101020SAC.html


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

I think he's good enough to occasionally have games like that when he's dominating the ball, but a superstar he is not.


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

He needs the ball in his hands to be effective. Rockets want Harden to hold the ball b/c he is the better ball-handler. Problem is Harden is also the better off-the-ball player. So maybe it's better to have Lin play point and use Harden off the ball spreading the floor w/ Parsons? Asik down low grabbing boards and Patterson working his mid range.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

It would be better to have Asik as their 3rd big and Patterson as their 4th. They are a legit PF and C away from doing anything significant in the West regardless of what Lin and Harden do... case in point, they lost tonight despite Lin's virtuoso performance.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

The Rockets' best 5-man unit so far this year in terms of +/- is Douglas-Delfino-Parsons-Morris-Smith. Interesting.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

RollWithEm said:


> He got hot. No one game is truly indicative of how good or bad a player is. Remember the night Tony Delk went 20-27 and scored 53 points?
> 
> http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200101020SAC.html


It's not one night though, it's a consistent pattern when the ball is put in his hands. He can do this. Again, I don't think you should build a team around him to put up 20+ shots a night but he can do what he did tonight, it's not a fluke. Guys with his skills have a place in the league, it's a matter of him finding the right situation and molding himself into a better all around player. 

Not exactly the same, but he should look at the career of someone like Jamal Crawford. He's not a perfect player. He has very glaring weaknesses and you shouldn't build your team around him, but he has a very specific set of skills and abilities that not a lot of people have. It took him some time, but he's learned to use those skills and become a good NBA player with a defined role that he's now embraced and learned to excel at. Jeremy Lin needs to do the same thing, but he has time.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

RollWithEm said:


> It would be better to have Asik as their 3rd big and Patterson as their 4th. They are a legit PF and C away from doing anything significant in the West regardless of what Lin and Harden do... case in point, they lost tonight despite Lin's virtuoso performance.


And a career-high from Asik.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Also, in Lin's breakout game as a Rocket, he gave up Tony Parker's first career triple double on the other end of the floor. Just saying.


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## Burn II (Dec 11, 2012)

hobojoe said:


> he has a very specific set of skills


skills that make him a nightmare for people like you


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

RollWithEm said:


> The Rockets' best 5-man unit so far this year in terms of +/- is Douglas-Delfino-Parsons-Morris-Smith. Interesting.


So that unit is up against a lot of second units I take it.

Those 5 lead the comeback from 17 down against the Lakers 5 of Hill-Clark-Ebank-Meeks-Morris


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

hobojoe said:


> It's not one night though, it's a consistent pattern when the ball is put in his hands. He can do this. Again, I don't think you should build a team around him to put up 20+ shots a night but he can do what he did tonight, it's not a fluke. Guys with his skills have a place in the league, it's a matter of him finding the right situation and molding himself into a better all around player.
> 
> Not exactly the same, but he should look at the career of someone like Jamal Crawford. He's not a perfect player. He has very glaring weaknesses and you shouldn't build your team around him, but he has a very specific set of skills and abilities that not a lot of people have. It took him some time, but he's learned to use those skills and become a good NBA player with a defined role that he's now embraced and learned to excel at. Jeremy Lin needs to do the same thing, but he has time.


This but I think Lin has a shot of having a big impact without being relegated to a 6th man.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

See the mods on this board are so lazy (not you RollWithEm). All they have to do to strike up activity is start one of two threads-

Jeremy Lin, sucks or not?

or

Kevin Love, franchise player or not?

It's the new Kobe vs ____________


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

RollWithEm said:


> He got hot. No one game is truly indicative of how good or bad a player is. Remember the night Tony Delk went 20-27 and scored 53 points?
> 
> http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200101020SAC.html


Like I've always said, he's somewhere in the middle of the people who think hes a star, and the people who think hes a scrub. He's a decent starter, more so when used properly. 

You put any PG who is used to controlling the offense and pair him with "Me first! I want the ball! Give me the ball!" Harden and they're going to underperform.

Harden is a chucker who absolutely dominates the ball any time hes on the floor. Its a terrible pairing with Lin. In Houstons defense, I don't think anyone knew he was such a ballhog prior to this season.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Burn II said:


> skills that make him a nightmare for people like you


That will teach you to defend Lin hobojoe, you dirtbag.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Burn II said:


> skills that make him a nightmare for people like you


I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for rep, I can tell you I don't have any and I need to spread it around. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you continue to post like you did now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Threats!

Mods throwing around threats of physical harm and death!


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

You need to look up who Bryan Mills is.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

You need to look up who Liam Neeson is.


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Or I'll kill you.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Liam is Bryan. They're the same person!


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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

Maybe. I'm not sure.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)




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## R-Star (Jun 13, 2002)

That thing looks like it could kill me.


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## ChrisWoj (May 17, 2005)

ChrisWoj said:


> Luke Ridnour could never have done what Lin did last year. No way. Lin has some talent, and in the right situation - can leverage it. Houston is not the right situation though, and Lin's talents need that. He is very much a system player - in the right system he's a superstar. Ridnour? No system could make him that.


I stand by what I said. And I maintain that the phrase "system superstar" in no way denigrates the word superstar. Combine marketability with what he can put up in the right situation and you can call what Jeremy Lin brings to the table on par with that of a superstar. And I maintain no matter what you say about him not being scouted: there have been a lot of unscouted players in NBA history. What Lin has shown is unique and worth taking note of.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using VerticalSports.Com App


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Dee-Zy said:


> This but I think Lin has a shot of having a big impact without being relegated to a 6th man.


Like I said, not the exact same situation as Crawford. They're just comparable in my opinion in the sense that they are capable of being electrifying and are very talented, but also very flawed. You don't build a team around Jamal Crawford despite his ability to score points in bunches. You don't build a team around Jeremy Lin despite his ability to penetrate, finish around and rim and create plays off the dribble. His flaws are too numerous and too glaring to justify putting the ball in his hands all the time on an every game basis. That doesn't mean he has no place in the NBA, it just means he's not a franchise player. He has some unique abilities that he and a team need to find the right role for.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

I Agree that he is not a Franchise player but he can be a 2-3rd option (not strictly offense, but 2-3 best player on the team) on a chip team (I know I will get killed for this).


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

For those that argue Lin is being neutered by Harden's presence...looks like you're right. ESPN's Tom Haberstroh, who writes for the Heat Index, was officially handed the reigns to Hollinger's PER Diem blog (very smart choice by ESPN, Tom is great), and his *first article* is an argument to have Lin come off the bench:



> When the Houston Rockets visit the New York Knicks on Monday night, it will mark the first time that the Knickerbockers' point guard sensation from last season comes back to Madison Square Garden. That's right, the moment every New Yorker has been waiting for:
> 
> The return of Toney Douglas.
> 
> ...


Still, both players would ideally play 35 minutes a night, so it would be impossible to keep them separate for a really significant amount of time. I guess, ideally, you'd want a Klay Thompson-type next to Lin.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

That I'd a very compelling argument.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

the rockets don't necessarily need to bring lin off the bench but they should do a better job staggering their minutes and having lin run the show more often than he is doing right now when they are both on the court(and since harden is actually good off the ball as well, that will only help the offense).

i expect this is something that would happen with a better coaching staff which the rockets don't have unfortunately.


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## Jace (Sep 26, 2005)

Hyperion said:


> That I'd a very compelling argument.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

Is, not I'd. Phone auto corrects.


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

Good read, thanks for sharing. Pretty much confirms what the eye test tells you.


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

More or less confirms what I've been saying about Rockets pick n roll. An alternative would be to let Lin handle the ball since Harden can act as a floor spacer, with guys like Parson and Morris as well.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

kbdullah said:


> More or less confirms what I've been saying about Rockets pick n roll. An alternative would be to let Lin handle the ball since Harden can act as a floor spacer, with guys like Parson and Morris as well.


this


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## michelangelo (Apr 29, 2009)

18 pts, 5 apg, 54% FGP, 51% 3FGP on the season.

31 pts and 34 pts back to back.

34 pts, 12 assists, 5 rebounds, 8 TO's in his last game.

The team sucks, but at least Lin is shooting lights out.


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## kbdullah (Jul 8, 2010)

Looks like Lin took that article Jace posted to heart and improved his shooting so he could work off the ball w/ Harden handling.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

It's really hard to play with Harden. There was a play last week where Lin was shouting a play at him and he just ignored it and walked to the corner and stood there, really bizarre, and the Rockets ended up with a shot clock violation. On top of that he dominates the ball. The thing I like about Lin is his teammates play better whenever he has been the center of the offense, New York and Houston.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

When insanity broke out I called him a poor mans tyreke Evans. Unlike tyreke though he's appeared to improve his 3 point shot. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## Luke (Dec 7, 2008)

Jamel Irief said:


> When insanity broke out I called him a poor mans tyreke Evans. Unlike tyreke though he's appeared to improve his 3 point shot.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


You also said he would never score 28 points again in the beginning of linsanity.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> When insanity broke out I called him a poor mans tyreke Evans. Unlike tyreke though he's appeared to improve his 3 point shot.


Right now I'd have to say he's better than Tyreke Evans... but neither guy is a starter-quality guard.


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## michelangelo (Apr 29, 2009)

Lin's season rankings among PG's season to date:

#2 in overall FG%

#3 in 3FG%

#5 in scoring average

Lin: 18.1 ppg, 4.9 apg
Evans: 9 ppg, 3.6 apg

You don't have a clue what you're talking about. 



RollWithEm said:


> Right now I'd have to say he's better than Tyreke Evans... but neither guy is a starter-quality guard.


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## Smath (Nov 29, 2010)

Lin >>>>>> Evans

Evans bball IQ = 0 how can u seriously like Evans? bball haters.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Stay on topic. It doesn't matter anyone here is from. Thanks.


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## michelangelo (Apr 29, 2009)

What country are you from basel? US? What about your ancestors? Are you trying to protect Lin from criticism? You must be from Taiwan. LOL. 

Yes, let's try talking about basketball. You can go check out "Roots" from the library.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

michelangelo said:


> What country are you from basel? US? What about your ancestors? Are you trying to protect Lin from criticism? You must be from Taiwan. LOL.
> 
> Yes, let's try talking about basketball. You can go check out "Roots" from the library.


Basel isn't real.


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## Basel (Mar 31, 2005)

Hyperion said:


> Basel isn't real.


This is true. I'm a robot.

I'd like to see Lin starting in place of Beverly.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Basel said:


> This is true. I'm a robot.
> 
> I'd like to see Lin starting in place of Beverly.


Goes for 34-12-5 and then gets benched for Patrick Beverley the next night. Crazy.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Adam said:


> Goes for 34-12-5 and then gets benched for Patrick Beverley the next night. Crazy.


Beverley's a better defender. As this board has become obsessed with discussing Harden's D, that should be clear why. 

Not to mention they could use his scoring off the bench.

Please don't delete this post.


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## michelangelo (Apr 29, 2009)

Basel said:


> This is true. I'm a robot.
> 
> I'd like to see Lin starting in place of Beverly.


Beverley's a terrific defensive specialist. There's such a big dropoff from Lin in terms off offensive production, however. He's had two 0 fer games, 0-10 and 0-5 this season already.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

Jamel Irief said:


> Beverley's a better defender. As this board has become obsessed with discussing Harden's D, that should be clear why.
> 
> Not to mention they could use his scoring off the bench.
> 
> Please don't delete this post.


The hell? Why would I delete my post?

It's not just the defense. It's the pecking order and the fact that Harden gets the shots so Lin has to play off the bench for him.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Adam said:


> The hell? Why would I delete my post?
> 
> It's not just the defense. It's the pecking order and the fact that Harden gets the shots so Lin has to play off the bench for him.


It was off topic. The topic is what country Basel was from or if he's a robot. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


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## michelangelo (Apr 29, 2009)

Adam said:


> The hell? *Why would I delete my post?*
> 
> It's not just the defense. It's the pecking order and the fact that Harden gets the shots so Lin has to play off the bench for him.


Jamil has been spamming the board demanding to know if everyone's Asian or not. Paranoia and race baiting at it's finest. 

As far as basketball is concerned, the pecking order has had a huge impact on the rockets' offense, and to a large degree it's been a negative one.

Dwight is unwilling to settle for a pnr role, and demands post up plays. This is slowing the offense, and in combination with harden's iso's, creates an 'every man for himself' mentality. 

The rockets are playing very selfish basketball right now.


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## Adam (Jan 28, 2003)

It's pretty interesting though: because of Harden's deficiencies you have to bench Lin for Beverley. If Harden could play off the ball, catch and shoot, and get his teammates involved without the isolation basketball, 1v1 playstyle then you could play him with Lin. Guys like Ray Allen, Dwyane Wade, and Kobe would all be playing with Lin on that Houston team, he's superior to Beverley.

It's actually really hard to remember good shooting guards that because of their playstyle you have to surround them with inferior players so that they can dominate the basketball. Allen Iverson comes to mind. Philly was at their best when they had him with Eric Snow. All the other guys I mentioned you start the point guard who can pass and create offense, the job of a point guard.


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## michelangelo (Apr 29, 2009)

Yeah, but you're thinking logically, and in basketball terms.

The rockets organization is predicated upon egos and hierarchies.

These guys are playing for themselves, not for the team. Harden wants to max out his stats. That means iso's and flops. Dwight wants to maximize his touches as a post scorer, rather than pnr. Chandler shares an agent with dwight, and he's playing for a contract which means he's looking for his. 

You know casspi and garcia want shots. Lin can't run the offense since he's now a spot up 2 guard.

This team is a damn mess.



Adam said:


> It's pretty interesting though: because of Harden's deficiencies you have to bench Lin for Beverley. If Harden could play off the ball, catch and shoot, and get his teammates involved without the isolation basketball, 1v1 playstyle then you could play him with Lin. Guys like Ray Allen, Dwyane Wade, and Kobe would all be playing with Lin on that Houston team, he's superior to Beverley.
> 
> It's actually really hard to remember good shooting guards that because of their playstyle you have to surround them with inferior players so that they can dominate the basketball. Allen Iverson comes to mind. Philly was at their best when they had him with Eric Snow. All the other guys I mentioned you start the point guard who can pass and create offense, the job of a point guard.


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## hroz (Mar 4, 2006)

Howard and Asik have struggled showing any semblance of a post move. Parsons Beverly Garcia Casspi have been utilized as spot up shooters. 

Lin and Harden need to play more minutes to make up for that. We also need someone who can create their own shot. I like the Suns atm. At centre have a rim protector. At forward have spacing. At the guard have all your offence. I like how their team is more than the sum of its pieces. 

Wish we had the Morris twins....


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## michelangelo (Apr 29, 2009)

I'm sure you caught DMo yesterday? His superiority in post play compared to howard must be quite embarrassing for dwight considering he makes 20X as much in salary. 

The rockets are very talented. What they lack right now is a competent coach who can properly utilize it. 



hroz said:


> Howard and Asik have struggled showing any semblance of a post move. Parsons Beverly Garcia Casspi have been utilized as spot up shooters.
> 
> Lin and Harden need to play more minutes to make up for that. We also need someone who can create their own shot. I like the Suns atm. At centre have a rim protector. At forward have spacing. At the guard have all your offence. I like how their team is more than the sum of its pieces.
> 
> Wish we had the Morris twins....


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

I agree. I really like the Rockets. They have a bunch of no names making noise and I love that. I love watching them play but too often I watch them and just think, WTF are they doing? As much as McHale did a great job getting to where they are and giving chances to players who may not have a chance anywhere else, he needs to control this team better or needs to be replaced.


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

Harden has definitely been disappointment in his unwillingness to play defense and play a more diverse offensive game. If all you want to do is dribble the ball yourself and isolate, you're essentially Iverson or Carmelo. It's hard to win with that kind of player as the best player on your team. This has to be the next step in his evolution as a superstar. If not, the criticism of his game will pile up and it will be justified. 

I don't think Lin is an all-star point guard or anything, but he is a good player, and better than Beverley. I do understand why they'd start Beverley though, because most nights you're going to be playing a really good point guard. There are just so many good point guards in the league now. Putting defense on the court to combat that and having a really nice 6th man punch is a good strategy. 

In fact, the Thunder did it for Harden's years in OKC. They had Durant and Westbrook starting, so they started Thabo Sefolosha for defense and brought Harden off the bench for the scoring punch. Obviously Harden is better than Thabo, but you have to put players in positions where the team is most likely to succeed. This strategy got them to the finals. I don't think this takes away from Durant or Westbrook because they _couldn't_ play with Harden in the starting lineup, it's just more beneficial to the team to get your elite offensive players going in waves while creating a balance in your starting unit.


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

Dee-Zy said:


> I agree. I really like the Rockets. They have a bunch of no names making noise and I love that. I love watching them play but too often I watch them and just think, WTF are they doing? As much as McHale did a great job getting to where they are and giving chances to players who may not have a chance anywhere else, he needs to control this team better or needs to be replaced.


The Rockets have a very nice 8-men rotation that, given time (and if Asik stays) and adjustments can be a very, very good team.
That being said, the Rockets are a little bit all over the place in their games and should work on getting a more cohesive aproach. Harden and Parsons shooting 10 triples a game (combined) making less than .300% is one thing to adress, for instance.

Lin is a very good PG, and it's too bad the Rockets can't play him more next to Harden.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

Sir Patchwork said:


> Harden has definitely been disappointment in his unwillingness to play defense and play a more diverse offensive game. If all you want to do is dribble the ball yourself and isolate, you're essentially Iverson or Carmelo. It's hard to win with that kind of player as the best player on your team. This has to be the next step in his evolution as a superstar. If not, the criticism of his game will pile up and it will be justified.
> 
> I don't think Lin is an all-star point guard or anything, but he is a good player, and better than Beverley. I do understand why they'd start Beverley though, because most nights you're going to be playing a really good point guard. There are just so many good point guards in the league now. Putting defense on the court to combat that and having a really nice 6th man punch is a good strategy.
> 
> In fact, the Thunder did it for Harden's years in OKC. They had Durant and Westbrook starting, so they started Thabo Sefolosha for defense and brought Harden off the bench for the scoring punch. Obviously Harden is better than Thabo, but you have to put players in positions where the team is most likely to succeed. This strategy got them to the finals. I don't think this takes away from Durant or Westbrook because they _couldn't_ play with Harden in the starting lineup, it's just more beneficial to the team to get your elite offensive players going in waves while creating a balance in your starting unit.


Plus Lim is extremely overrated when he drives. You dont pick up the dribble and do a fadeaway in the lane when you are a point guard. You get away with that as you are not the focal point of the offense. If he is and team start to game plan on Lim, I can guarantee you that teams wouldnt not even let him display this shot.

Call me racist, Asian will never succeed as a superstar in the NBA. Yao Ming was 7'6 but if he was black instead of chinese, the 18/9 production will juts give him another Rit Smits treatment max.

Yes, I am Asian, so racist againt own racist is not an issue? I am just trying to be realistics.


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## Dee-Zy (Jan 12, 2006)

I don't think you are racist to think that Lin won't be a superstar. I don't think he will be a superstar.

I'm hoping that he becomes a 1 time or 2 time all star but I know a lot of people are thinking that I am crazy. Most people don't think that he can even start on most teams...


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

John said:


> Plus Lim is extremely overrated when he drives. You dont pick up the dribble and do a fadeaway in the lane when you are a point guard. You get away with that as you are not the focal point of the offense. If he is and team start to game plan on Lim, I can guarantee you that teams wouldnt not even let him display this shot.
> 
> *Call me racist, Asian will never succeed as a superstar in the NBA. Yao Ming was 7'6 but if he was black instead of chinese, the 18/9 production will juts give him another Rit Smits treatment max*.
> 
> Yes, I am Asian, so racist againt own racist is not an issue? I am just trying to be realistics.


Maybe Brad Daugherty?


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

John said:


> Plus Lim is extremely overrated when he drives. You dont pick up the dribble and do a fadeaway in the lane when you are a point guard. You get away with that as you are not the focal point of the offense. If he is and team start to game plan on Lim, I can guarantee you that teams wouldnt not even let him display this shot.
> 
> Call me racist, Asian will never succeed as a superstar in the NBA. Yao Ming was 7'6 but if he was black instead of chinese, the 18/9 production will juts give him another Rit Smits treatment max.
> 
> Yes, I am Asian, so racist againt own racist is not an issue? I am just trying to be realistics.


I think you mean 20/10. That is rare especially with 2 blocks and 2assists a game. On top of that, he was finally starting to throw up some monster games in a row before he got injured. 

It's not his fault the entire nation of China would vote him into the all star game. In the US he was completely appropriately hyped.

Btw, saying an Asian will never be a great nba player because he's Asian is racist regardless of what your descent is.


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

Hyperion said:


> I think you mean 20/10. That is rare especially with 2 blocks and 2assists a game. On top of that, he was finally starting to throw up some monster games in a row before he got injured.
> 
> It's not his fault the entire nation of China would vote him into the all star game. In the US he was completely appropriately hyped.
> 
> Btw, saying an Asian will never be a great nba player because he's Asian is racist regardless of what your descent is.


Asian athletic abaility woll never be as good as white, let alone black.


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## Hyperion (Dec 5, 2006)

John said:


> Asian athletic abaility woll never be as good as white, let alone black.


You gotta be kidding me. 


I just got troll pwned.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

RollWithEm said:


> Right now I'd have to say he's better than Tyreke Evans... but neither guy is a starter-quality guard.


Still think so?


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## Bogg (May 4, 2009)

Jamel Irief said:


> Still think so?


It'll be interesting which Tyreke shows up next season. I can't imagine they'll send him back to the bench, and if he's the 20-5-5 sidekick for Anthony Davis that he'll be looking like, the Pels could make the playoffs next year just putting the Holiday/Anderson/Gordon group (all at least good-ish three-point shooters) around endless Davis-Evans pick and rolls. Kind of tough to take the ball out of the hands of the point guard you just traded two lottery picks for, though.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> Still think so?


No.


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## RollWithEm (Jul 16, 2002)

@Jamel Irief

See above. I admitted that mistake 7 months ago.


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## gi0rdun (May 31, 2007)

You all know I'm one of the biggest Jeremy Lin fans around... but he's just not doing well right now on the Lakers. We have a whole season ahead of us, and maybe being a ball-dominant point guard next to Kobe might not have been a good idea, but man... hope Jeremy gets it together.


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## OneBadLT123 (Oct 4, 2005)

OneBadLT123 said:


> Lin sucks. We let Lowry go for a pick and Dragic walking. What a **** up. Thankfully, Omar Asik has been awesome.


Man, this guy is a ****ing genius


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