# butler for bosh



## cram (Jul 18, 2003)

Would you guys do this? It would give Toronto the athletic swingman they need to compliment vince, and alleviate miami's dearth of small forwards.


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## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

HELL NO!!!


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

Hell no!We wont do it!......Hell no!We wont do it!.......Hell no!We wont do it!....
....
Period....

I would do Wade for Bosh though....


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## Ballishere (May 24, 2003)

No way indeed toronto would be craxy to do that deal. Bulter has probably hit his peek and the only reason he was scoring last year was because the Heat had no one else. Chris Bosh will be a much, much better player in the long run and he is 4 years younger!!!!!!!!!


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

Caron > Bosh

maybe for Rasual Butler and a 2nd rounder...


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Caron_Butler</b>!
> Caron > Bosh
> 
> maybe for Rasual Butler and a 2nd rounder...


Why must you guys undervalue other teams players/prospects???

I don't buy that bull about Caron reachin' his "peak"... lol:laugh: 
That's the first time I've heard that said about someone's ROOKIE season. That's crazy!!!!!!!


> No way indeed toronto would be craxy to do that deal. Bulter has probably hit his peek and the only reason he was scoring last year was because the Heat had no one else.


:mrt: 

But just in case you missed it... BOSH was selected ahead of WADE. So his value would be at least comparable to WADE's if not more than Wade's considering the fact that he was AHEAD of him and that there is a higher premium on quality big men.

The only question mark (if you can call it that) is Bosh's strength. Unlike Wade, he doesn't have to experiment with a different position and has no other flaws in his game - i.e. Wade's outside shot. So, one could make the argument that Bosh is definitely a more valued player. And let's not forget that Caron was the #10th Pick... vs. Bosh's #4 Pick.

All I'm saying is value other team players the same way you value yours. Rasual and a 2nd Rounder for Bosh is an insult. And I doubt the Raps would give him up because you just can't find Good Help Inside anymore... :grinning:


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## RoyWilliams (May 25, 2003)

> Caron > Bosh
> Maybe for Rasual anbd a 2nd rounder


I dont think Toronto would go for that. :no:


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

and i dont think the heat would take caron for bosh...


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

The only reason why the Heat don't think twice about BOSH for BUTLER is because they have B. Grant entrenched in the post and no real PG. If they had the type of PG to compliment Wade long-term with the acquisition of Odom and if they could move Grant's contract for a legit C... They would have to at least think about it.

Bosh is gonna be a star once he puts some meat on his bones and that's the only issue surrounding him and he doesn't have anyone to beat out or really take minutes away from him in Rap-Town.


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## RoyWilliams (May 25, 2003)

> and i dont think the heat would take caron for bosh...


Nope and i wouldnt either if was a heat fan. You have your franchise player, why trade him.


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## cram (Jul 18, 2003)

Its pretty much accepted that Bosh has more potential upside than Butler. He has Garnett-potential.

Butler is going to be very, very good. Less upside, but less risk.

Butler is ready to contribute now. Toronto quite frankly can't wait for Bosh.

But you guys have SHOULD trade one of your swingmen for a PF or a centre and have grant play the other position. 

Unless someone's silly enough to take eddie jones, its gonna be wade or butler.


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## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

No way i would do it...... Caron is our franchise player and is not going to be traded


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## cram (Jul 18, 2003)

posted by : Caron_Butler ........

"maybe for Rasual Butler and a 2nd rounder..."


    

Are you THAT myopic?


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

no it was being sarcastic after his offer


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## Ballscientist (Nov 11, 2002)

:yes:


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## amd pwr (Jun 24, 2003)

how bout AD for eddie jones. this moves clears out playing time for the bosh and wade to play


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## cram (Jul 18, 2003)

AD for EJ -- positive thinking, but EJ's contract is as bad as AD's, and he isn't the type of player we (toronto) needs.

We need an athletic SF that can slash and score on his own......or a more developed PF/centre


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

i dont think miami would do it either....


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## Joker (Aug 7, 2002)

probably wade for bosh, but i wouldnt do it... bosh needs a lotta time to start being productive... wade can produce rightaway.


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## cram (Jul 18, 2003)

Caron_Butler: i dont think miami would do it either....

Yeah -- you'd rather have EJ coming off the bench than a quality starting big man. Smart.  

Joker : probably wade for bosh, but i wouldnt do it... bosh needs a lotta time to start being productive... wade can produce rightaway.

So if the draft were held today, and your roster features Lamar (wasted at PF), Caron, and EJ.......you'd choose Wade ahead of Bosh, if both were available? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## MIAMI1 (Jun 11, 2003)

why is this trade beind proposed?..........

it's never going to happen anyway.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>cram</b>!
> Caron_Butler: i dont think miami would do it either....
> 
> Yeah -- you'd rather have EJ coming off the bench than a quality starting big man. Smart.
> ...


#1 EJ coming off the bench? that ruined your entire argument right there because he is starting at Guard for the Heat

#2 No, I would take Wade over Bosh. He is a high school kid with potential...right now Wade is far better. A proven college player has less risks than a high school kid, so of course i'm taking Wade over Bosh. Wade will play PG anyways so there is no logjam at SG which you think there is.


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## Dathomieyouhate (Jun 21, 2003)

omg you heat fans are lame.. first off.. cram that is a HORRIBLE trade.. bosh can be like a garnet duncan or webber type.. and all off the teams those guys are on are the top in the league.. why would we want butler?? ahh those guards are a dime a dozen..

and the bosh and wade trade is retarded.. if the heat had their choice they would of chosen BOSH anyday of the week..


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Dathomieyouhate</b>!
> omg you heat fans are lame.. first off.. cram that is a HORRIBLE trade.. bosh can be like a garnet duncan or webber type.. and all off the teams those guys are on are the top in the league.. why would we want butler?? ahh those guards are a dime a dozen..
> 
> and the bosh and wade trade is retarded.. if the heat had their choice they would of chosen BOSH anyday of the week..


hahahhaa he's shown alot to be Webber/Duncan/Garnett hasnt he?
i mean he's such a successful pro already....he is 18-19 yrs old never played an NBA game...how can you put him as one of the best PFs in the game?
if anyone is lame its you buddy...


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## RoyWilliams (May 25, 2003)

Why is Bosh being called a high schooler, he played at Georgia Tech, but did lead Lincoln High to a 40-0 record and the state championship as a senior. Wade played only one season more than Bosh.


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

Mark me down on this one....

Though it's hard to compare players and say, "He's like... He got game like..." *CHRIS BOSH* will be the a great player in the NBA once his body fills out.

I'd say he will have Garnett's dominance and overall stat filling(24ppg 22rpg several times a season during peak years) with a similiarly statured Jermaine O'Neal's post game. He will definitely be more of a Low Post presence and may not have the perimeter skills of K.G. but his value to his team once he develops will be similar IMO... So in three years... Watch Out!! 
_(He could do the Keon Clark in Toronto this year perhaps...)_

And I would have to second the line: 
_GUARDS ARE A DIME A DOZEN!!_

Not dissin' those with great skill but it's undeniable that in today's NBA there is greater demand for Inside Presence.


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## RoyWilliams (May 25, 2003)

> I'd say he will have Garnett's dominance and overall stat filling(24ppg 22rpg several times a season during peak years)


Come on dont put that much hype on someone who has played one year of ball, he isnt Bron Bron


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## cram (Jul 18, 2003)

_#1 EJ coming off the bench? that ruined your entire argument right there because he is starting at Guard for the Heat_ 

Riley said EJ could come off the bench if Wade turned out as good as he thought he could. Wade and Caron taking the 2 guard spots. You're set at 1, 2, 3, and 5 (unless grant plays 4), and lacking one big man. 

And EJ coming off the bench.


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

Wade played 3yrs. at Marquette. Bosh only played one. Last year was his freshman year.

15.7 ppg 9.0 rpg 1.2 apg 2.1 bpg 
>>> .560 FG% .730 FT% <<<
.468 3pt % (connected on 22 - 47 in 31 games)

Those are his stats...


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

hahahaha
How are u going to bench a player who averages 18ppg...?...?....?

EJ will start........unless EJ gets injured.......then Wade will start at the SG spot and rafer handles the PG spot............


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RoyWilliams</b>!
> 
> Come on dont put that much hype on someone who has played one year of ball, he isnt Bron Bron


Just put me down for it...

I'll stand by what I say. Once his body fills out he will be a playa!

What's the hype on the Man-Child in PHX?? Stoudemire doesn't have half Bosh's skills but because of his athleticism and mature NBA body..... what??

Bosh will be a PLAYA!!! Put me down for it!


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

MIAMI HEAT 03...

You HEAT fans need to figure out what your starting line-up is going to be...

Now, All-Of-Sudden... there's some alarm about E.J. coming off the bench when die-hard Heat fans for weeks have be anglin' for Wade to start at PG with Caron at SG and Odom at the 3...

And please don't tell me you haven't read that! 

Also please don't try that Odom as a PF thing either!

Holla at your boys!! Cause this isn't the first time someone has mentioned a Heat Line-Up without E.J. as a starter.


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## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

I like Bosh but I wouldnt trade Caron for him,cuz Caron is our leader and the fans love him!Its hard to find players that the fans connect with,and we havent had one since Zo,Tim and Thunder left!If Riles and Arison want to put butts in the seats trading Caron wouldnt be a good start!I think Bosh has the potential to put up 22pts 10reb 4ast 1.5blk,but he could just as easily become a Joe Smith,KVH or Eddie Griffin type player!:uhoh:


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HEATLUNATIC</b>!
> I like Bosh but I wouldnt trade Caron for him,cuz Caron is our leader and the fans love him!Its hard to find players that the fans connect with,and we havent had one since Zo,Tim and Thunder left!If Riles and Arison want to put butts in the seats trading Caron wouldnt be a good start!I think Bosh has the potential to put up 22pts 10reb 4ast 1.5blk,but he could just as easily become a Joe Smith,KVH or Eddie Griffin type player!:uhoh:


I hate to be the one that always have to be contrary but...
ONCE again a HEAT fan devalues another teams player.

"he could just as easily become a Joe Smith,KVH or Eddie Griffin type player!"

**Wade could just as easily...** But you cats won't hear of that!! Every Heat player is the bomb-diggidity!! 

And I didn't know that the verdict was out on Griffin!! He's been in the league WHAT?? Two years??? and you're calling him a bust or underachiever??

C'mon...


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## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nmage</b>!
> 
> I hate to be the one that always have to be contrary but...
> ONCE again a HEAT fan devalues another teams player.
> ...


Here u go puttn words in my mouth again!!!:laugh: 

I DIDNT devalue Bosh!What I said was that he has the potential to become a Super-Star or a TWEENER like the players I mentioned above!The verdict isnt out on Griffin but so far all hes been is a BIG disappointment!Im sure the Rockets would much rather have R-Jeff right now!


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

This is the lineup i am going to stick with it....

PG:Wade/Rafer
SG:Eddie Jones/Rasual
SF:Caron/Wallace
PF:Odom/malik
C:Grant/Wood

thats how i see it......maybe it'll change later but right now i think this will be our lineup......


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

You guys need to chill out. It's pretty obvious this trade makes no sense as far as this season is concern. Bosh, eventhough a bigman, can't help Miami as much as Butler. Bosh right now is maybe as good as Stephania and the Heat isn't willing to give Steph any good contract at this moment. Riley won't have patience with Bosh and he's the one making decisions.

As a non-Heat fan, I am also pretty sure Eddie Jones will start at the begining of season, provided he is healthy. Wade can slowly learn from the bench. Once he grasps the PG concept, he will take over. Actually I think the Jones-Davis trade is much better than the Butler-Bosh one. I think Riley will like it but I'm not sure Toronto will give up their leader and the only bigman who will contribute next season for another overpaid swingman.


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## Joker (Aug 7, 2002)

> So if the draft were held today, and your roster features Lamar (wasted at PF), Caron, and EJ.......you'd choose Wade ahead of Bosh, if both were available?


to start off EJ is not gonna be in a Miami uniform any longer, so lamar wont have to play PF for long.

and im not talking about expectatoins in 5 years when the kid we drafted becomes a free agent, im talking about a rookie who can produce rightaway. wade can. bosh can not. thats the bottom line. 

bosh has the potential to become a star inthe league, well we're already taking these chances on lamar.

yes i would pick wade over bosh today and have a backcourt of wade butler andlamar for he next 6 years.

we'll find a PF and a C through trades, freeagency, or the lottery who can contribute rightaway.

miami fans arent as patient as bulls fans. we dont want players to start producing after they've been wasting our time for 3 years warming the bench and hitting airballs.


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## bisco614 (Aug 27, 2003)

Yes, Bosh could turn out to be something special. a jermaine o'neal-type player. However, he has a thin frame and he could be the next marcus camby. Butler is a known commodity. Alot of people are saying he's the next paul pierce. As far as Wade is concerned, I guess i would be ok trading him for bosh, but that means we are sacrificing the present for the future. He may have only played 2 years in college, but he was a FIRST TEAM all american this year and beat the best team in the tournament practically on his own, putting up a triple-double. Like I said, i would be ok trading for bosh because its hard to find a good big man, so its worth a risk, but not if we are trying to win now.


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## RoyWilliams (May 25, 2003)

> Wade played 3yrs. at Marquette. Bosh only played one. Last year was his freshman year.


Like i said before Bosh played one year, and Wade two..........:yes:


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## RoyWilliams (May 25, 2003)

Freshman (2000-01): Sat out the season as an NCAA partial qualifier but practiced with the team.

Therefor i dont count that as playing, since he didnt play a game.


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HEATLUNATIC</b>!
> 
> Here u go puttn words in my mouth again!!!:laugh:
> 
> I DIDNT devalue Bosh!What I said was that he has the potential to become a Super-Star or a TWEENER like the players I mentioned above!The verdict isnt out on Griffin but so far all hes been is a BIG disappointment!Im sure the Rockets would much rather have R-Jeff right now!


You're characterization of Bosh as a "tweener" is a joke! What two positions has anyone ever suggested that he would/could play?? You might want to use the word in it's proper context...

BTW... Will D. Wade be a "tweener" and be a BIG disappointment like say... Larry Hughes???

See how ridiculous that sounds??:yes: 

No Wade is not a Hughes and neither is Bosh a Camby, Smith, or whoever else you want to mention. True, he will have to develop (body-wise), but there is no indication he will be like any of those you mentioned. (I could have told anybody that Camby was soft when he was at UMass. Though he did surprise me some with his energy when he was healthy in NY.)

Bosh does not have the makings of any of those finesse players.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

Wade was in college 3 yrs.....Bosh 1.....Wade is more developed and a better player right now....he isnt close to being KG or any top PF yet...

Eddie will start--don't talk like you know everything b/c you obviously don't--why would you bench eddie jones for a rookie? wade will more than likely start on the bench unless he ends up being our best option at PG.


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## RoyWilliams (May 25, 2003)

Wade has two years of college game experience and Bosh has one.


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

I don't begrudge the HEAT wanting to "win now"...

I'm not debating that point. I'm just saying Bosh will take time to develop and will be a star when he does. That is the bottom line on him. 

The whole thing becomes warped when people have to go beyond common sense and speculate about the "uncertainty" of what type of player Bosh would be. If the Heats reason for favoring WADE is all about having a player to produce "right-away" then that's all that needs to be said. Making lame comparison and throwing up absurd question marks that you can't seem to put up against your own players (read Wade) just to say that is... well... lame!


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## RoyWilliams (May 25, 2003)

> I'm just saying Bosh will take time to develop and will be a star when he does. That is the bottom line on him.


That is the way it is with any draft pick, just look at Kwame Brown.


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

*CARON_BUTLER...*

What do you see as the Heat's starting line-up??

(BTW... I agree E.J. should start and Wade would give them a great change of pace and scoring boost off the bench.)


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>RoyWilliams</b>!
> 
> 
> That is the way it is with any draft pick, just look at Kwame Brown.


I completely agree. There really is no absolute, can't miss!

However, in Kwame's defense, I think he was in a bad situation with the M.J. Factor. For now, I'll have to give him a pass like people give Odom and/or other Clippers a benefit-of-a-doubt because of that "situation".... (not saying the two are the same, though)


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## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

> You're characterization of Bosh as a "tweener" is a joke! What two positions has anyone ever suggested that he would/could play?? You might want to use the word in it's proper context...


At 6'10 210lbs with good handle,mid-3pt range and court vision Bosh will be able to play SF/PF and point forward!



> BTW... Will D. Wade be a "tweener" and be a BIG disappointment like say... Larry Hughes???


Larry Hughes was great until the Warriors tried to turn him into a PG!The Heat ARENT tryn to turn wade into a PG they are tryn to turn him into a combo guard!The Warriors made Huges bring the ball up the court and set up the O on EVERY play,which took away from his biggest strength which was slashing!The Heat are only making Wade play PG,but he wont handling the PG duties like bringn up the rock or setting up the O!We have 2 point forwards in Odom and Caron,and a PG with SICK handle and court vision in Skip to my Lou!



> No Wade is not a Hughes and neither is Bosh a Camby, Smith, or whoever else you want to mention. True, he will have to develop (body-wise), but there is no indication he will be like any of those you mentioned. (I could have told anybody that Camby was soft when he was at UMass. Though he did surprise me some with his energy when he was healthy in NY.)


When the hell did I mention Camby?!?!Bosh has he same type of build and game that Smith,KVH and Griffin have,in other words they are all tall,thin and like shoot from outside!The one thing that Bosh possesses that the players above dont,is an inside game!In college Bosh showed that he can play with his back to the basket,put the ball on the floor and that hes got good post moves!His only downfall and its a BIG downfall,is that hes got a FRENCH FRY build!I dont care how talented u are,if u dont have muscle u CANT play in the paint in the NBA!I like Bosh and I think hes got the potential to be a Super-Star,but only if he puts on the muscle!


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## bisco614 (Aug 27, 2003)

Nmage, the "bottom line" on bosh is not that "he will be a star." Thats just a ridiculous statement. He's a bit of a project. You take a chance on a player when he is a project. Teams are willing to take the risk when it involves a big man. But it does not mean it will turn out well! It "could," but also could fail. There is LESS of a chance that Wade will flop (he could too though) then Bosh because he is more proven than bosh is (first team all american, amazing ncaa tourney, etc). He also has less upside, being a guard. But do not sit here and tell us that we are passing up on a kevin garnett in 2 years because that is not the case!


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## RoyWilliams (May 25, 2003)

All rookies have a chance to be busts, you can never say oh he will be a star bottom line.


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

Lunatic...

Bisco mention Camby... So chill!

Bisco, I'm not trying to convince anybody about Bosh. Do the words, "I don't begrudge the Heat for wanting to win now", mean anything???

Chill. What 'scouting' reports have either of you read that compare Bosh to any of those players and say he has "game" like them? 

NO, Lunatic, Bosh is not a tweener. He's just light in the pants and got skills. Show me one projection besides your own that says he is suited to play SF/PF. His weight/height, just like Odom's, is not an absolute indicator of anything.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

Heat Lineup

C-Grant-Woods
F-Odom-Walker
F-Caron-Rasual
G-Jones-Wade
G-Wade/Skip/vet PG-Wade/Skip/Vet PG


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## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nmage</b>!
> Lunatic...
> 
> Bisco mention Camby... So chill!
> ...


U dont know that Bosh isnt a tweener!Bosh has the build and skill to play SF,and if he cant put on the weight thats exactly where he will end up!

They all fit into the PF trapped in a SF body!!!

Smith 
Griffin
KVH
Tawn
Uncle Cliff
T. Thomas

EVERYONE will put Bosh in the same category as the players mentioned above if he cant put on muscle!


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

Well...

Caron_Butler, I stand as one who sees Odom at PF as very problematic for the Heat. Yes, he's capable of playing 4 positions but he's no Magic Johnson. Maybe he can get away with that when they want to play "small" ball... (They would add new meaning to that... cause only Odom and Grant would be "small". Odom in terms of weight.) 

Anyway... Here's a couple of links on Bosh. Again, I have yet to see him termed as a "tweener". And 47 3pt attempts at GA-Tech does not classify him as attempting to be a SF anymore than say Rasheed Wallace's 3pt acumen makes him into a SF.

http://nbadraft.net/profiles/chrisbosh.htm 

http://www.hoopville.net/draft/03/draft.asp?EntryID=4246 

I leave it at that with this one last thing to say...

Bisco, the term "project" is used for players who have NOT developed good footwork, skills, shooting ability, defense, etc. Bosh is NOT a "project" by that definition. He is wayyyy too thin but the skills are there. Strength and weight are the only question marks, otherwise his game is solid by all accounts.


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

Heatlunatic...

KVH, personally, I think it's the other way around. He's 255 lbs from the last time I checked. I think he might be better served playing PF. He's too slow and methodical for the 3, IMO. He rebounds well when motivated.

Again, find me a definitive press release, clipping, sample or anything that says Bosh is a "tweener". Nobody calls Keon Clark a "tweener" yet Bosh is constantly called a "BigMan" in the sense of being a post player. And NO SF are not typically called post players.

Back up your assertions and don't just go by size.


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

> *Chris Bosh*
> 
> (NBA.com profile)
> The numbers: 15.6 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 1.2 apg, 2.2 bpg, 56.0% fg, 47.8% three (Georgia Tech)
> ...


That's an excerpt apparently from the Sonics pre-draft drawing board. No were in there are any references to anything like a "tweener".... (I let the highlighting speak for itself.)


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

Since you're too slow... (HeatLunatic)

I found a reference where someone said Bosh (#2) could play some SF... but notice the difference between the notes on him and the guy YOU compared him to, Eddie Griffin (#1).

(#1) http://www2.foxsports.com/nba_draft/players/*griffin_eddie.html*

(#2) http://www.foxsports.com/content/view?contentId=861225 

Not that you have to respect the writer's views but I think an honest person can see the difference. The guy compared Bosh's potential to Garnett and then wondered if his talent would be more like Stromile Swift. I would call that (and the SF reference) a bit of sensationalism because Swift has always been classified as 'raw' athletic talent whereas Bosh skills would give him a definite higher BBall IQ rating.

Oh... and Griffin was noted as not having that "fire"... I haven't heard that assigned to Bosh though...


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## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nmage</b>!
> Heatlunatic...
> 
> KVH, personally, I think it's the other way around. He's 255 lbs from the last time I checked. I think he might be better served playing PF. He's too slow and methodical for the 3, IMO. He rebounds well when motivated.
> ...


When the hell did I say anyone called Bosh a tweener?!?!Ur makng it sound like I said everyone said Bosh will be a tweener and that he will have to play SF,when I NEVER said anything like that!I said that if he cant put on the weight he will have to play SF which would make him a TWEENER!I think u think im tryn to put Bosh down,but im NOT!Im a BIG fan of his,and I hope for his sake that he can put on the muscle so he wont get categorized as a tweener!


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

Sorry I didnt read the whole thing...but if I were the Heat, I wouldn't make this trade now. But if Bosh has a monster year and so does Caron I would...cos you have Wade and Odom and need another big man. Would you guys?


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## bisco614 (Aug 27, 2003)

Nmage- What are we even arguing about here? I agree that bosh has the potential to be a phenomenal player, and you agree that he *could* bust. Do you agree that Wade is a slightly safer, albeit less spectacular, pick, given his accomplishments? If we agree on that than there is nothing more to discuss here.


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HEATLUNATIC</b>!
> 
> 
> U dont know that Bosh isnt a tweener!Bosh has the build and skill to play SF,and if he cant put on the weight thats exactly where he will end up!


You don't remember saying that???

For the record, he has P-O-S-T Skills - aka PF skills - with added athleticism and perhaps shooting range to play on the perimeter... "some". Joe Smith has hardly ever been referred to as a "tweener". I haven't heard of him ever being considered a SF. Size alone does not determine a players position.

Being a tweener primarily does not have the skills to dominate in one area/position. Kind of a Jack-Of-All Trades, master of none (for what positions consider). That is not solely determined by height and weight. 

Jon Bender's height says he should be a C (classically). But he is considered more of a SF for his skill-set and is even seen as a stretch at PF. That's not because of height and size per se, but his skills and ability.

Again, find me something that corroborates your "tweener" idea that says CHRIS BOSH doesn't have clear Low-Post, PF skills. Every write-up on him will clearly say he is a Low Post player who happens to have the extra... extra ability to take his game away from the hoop.


> Ur makng it sound like I said everyone said Bosh will be a tweener...


NO... I'm saying that YOU... YOU made the unfounded and unwarranted called proclamation. I simply asked you to find something in the media to support your labeling.


> I hope for his sake that he can put on the muscle so he wont get categorized as a tweener!


So you agree that he hasn't been "categorized" or, truth be told, even considered to be a potential "tweener" and that you're making it up... right?? 

Anyway...
All I'm saying is that you're going way too far with labeling him as a "tweener". That has nothing to do with whether you "like" him or not.

Peace!


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>bisco614</b>!
> Nmage- What are we even arguing about here? I agree that bosh has the potential to be a phenomenal player, and you agree that he *could* bust. Do you agree that Wade is a slightly safer, albeit less spectacular, pick, given his accomplishments? If we agree on that than there is nothing more to discuss here.


You're confusing what I said... and disregarding what I said as it relates to Wade and the Heat's selection of him or the refusal of the trade or re-draft proposition that started this thread.

The "Bust" thing was a general statement which could apply to ANY player. As far as my feelings about Bosh, I don't think he will be one. That's my opinion.

As far as what's "safer" for Miami... I never said Miami should have picked or should try to get Bosh. So, frankly, your statement has no bearing.

I'm only talking about what type of player Bosh is, could be, etc. which has nothing to do with Wade and Miami. My view, unlike your's, isn't from the prism of what's good for the Heat.


> But just in case you missed it... BOSH was selected ahead of WADE. So his value would be at least comparable to WADE's if not more than Wade's considering the fact that he was AHEAD of him and that there is a higher premium on quality big men.
> 
> The only question mark (if you can call it that) is Bosh's strength. Unlike Wade, he doesn't have to experiment with a different position and has no other flaws in his game - i.e. Wade's outside shot. So, one could make the argument that Bosh is definitely a more valued player. And let's not forget that Caron was the #10th Pick... vs. Bosh's #4 Pick.
> 
> All I'm saying is value other team players the same way you value yours. Rasual and a 2nd Rounder for Bosh is an insult. And I doubt the Raps would give him up because you just can't find Good Help Inside anymore...


 That's my first statement which just an observation. Matter of fact, I don't think I ever said anything about the HEAT 'should do this trade and why'. I simply made observations about Bosh and played a little Devil's Advocate. 

Anyway... 
I think there no use in entertaining trade ideas when at least one team involved (Miami in this case) has not shown any displeasure in the players they have, esp. not Wade or Caron. So, no, I don't think the "trade" idea makes any sense. Miami clearly got what they wanted, a mature, skilled player ready to contribute right-away. So I fail to see what your issue is...


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>FanOfAll8472</b>!
> Sorry I didnt read the whole thing...but if I were the Heat, I wouldn't make this trade now. But if Bosh has a monster year and so does Caron I would...cos you have Wade and Odom and need another big man. Would you guys?


That's an interesting question...

Yeah!! Heat Fans?? If Caron, Wade and Bosh all have good years and live up to expectations... THEN how would you see this "trade" scenario???

(Not that the Rap would let Bosh go then but just in case they would...)


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## bisco614 (Aug 27, 2003)

When you say "live up to expectations" does that mean wade works out at the point? Because with his size, quickness, hops, and d, he would be a nasty point guard. 

I understand what you are getting at though. If we could somehow look down the line and see that bosh will be an all star, then we probably trade one of our swingmen for him, because obviously our roster is unbalanced, we need size.


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

Bisco...

After thinking about it, I think Wade can work out at PG but with Odom running the offense or half-court sets.

I think he would be able to do some real damage by rebounding and having the license to take it coast-to-coast. All he really needs to become schooled in then is how to run the break as PG which I see as more do-able than being PG in the half-court. 

Actually the ballhandling and even gettin' out on the break will have to be a 'team effort'. I see Odom as having more of a PG mindset and Wade can be great if he's freed of the PG burden, IMO.


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## bisco614 (Aug 27, 2003)

Yeah, I think you're right about the team effort bringing up the ball. Since the Odom signing Riley has been saying that he doesn't want to put labels on players, like point guard. We'll see, its going to be an interesting team to watch, whether they win or lose. Wade did manage almost 5 assists a game last year, and accordint to his college coach and teammates he is a past-first player. 

Still, I have my concerns. NBA point is so tough. A great point guard might be *almost* as valuable as a great big man. I mean seriously, who would you rather have- Kidd or Jermaine O'Neal? I say kidd. Obviously guys like payton and kidd will probably embarass wade a few times this year, but if he can keep the turnovers down, it might be ok. I hope Riley knows what hes doing.


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

It's gonna take a lot of ingenuity...

There are just certain instances in certain games or situations that a seasoned, natural PG does things completely different and totally better than 'substitute' PG. The trend of "scoring" PG have clouded some people's idea and value of a "true" PG.

Coaches always say that they don't want their player to be out there 'thinking' per se but would rather have them 'react'... The natural PG reaction is what had Arenas sitting the bench when 5'5" sensation Earl Boykins was holding it down for GSW...

I agree PG and C are the hardest positions to get proper quality. It's funny how positions have evolved (seemingly) since I've grown up from the 80's til now.

PG, PF were role players. C were skilled. SF were the big scorers and some SG. Many SG were specialist, sharpshooters. PF rebounders with no special scoring loads mostly.

Think about the Dr. J Sixers, Lakers, Celtics of that era.


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## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nmage</b>!
> 
> You don't remember saying that???
> 
> ...


1. I watched a lot of Bosh's games in college and I already mentioned that hes got post skills,so I dont know who u think ur enlightening,but its not me!

2. Its true that Bosh has all the skills it takes to play PF,but then again hes also got all the skills it takes to play SF!If Bosh cant put on muscle and keep it on he will be moved to SF permanently,which would make him a tweener!

3. I never said height is what makes u a tweener!What makes u a tweener is if u dont have the muscle or toughness to play ur normal position in the pros!

4. Im not gonna find u a damn thing that says Bosh is a tweener,cuz for the 3rd or 4th time im pretty sure that im the only one thats called him that!Once again if Bosh cant put on the weight and keep it on EVERYONE will be calling him that!

5. Im done talkn about Bosh,cuz the Raps wont trade him and the Heat wont trade for him!


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HEATLUNATIC</b>!
> 
> 4. Im not gonna find u a damn thing that says Bosh is a tweener,cuz for the 3rd or 4th time *im pretty sure that im the only one thats called him that!* Once again if Bosh cant put on the weight and keep it on EVERYONE will be calling him that!


That's my point! YOU are the only one making the claims that BOSH may be a "tweener". The media is quick to report those NBA bound players that have the "tweener" label. So I was asking you where you got that bit of ridiculous analysis from.

Bosh is what?? 210 lbs...?? Some say he still might be growing...
Keon Clark is what?? 221 lbs??? And is Keon a "tweener"??

All I'm saying is YOU shouldn't be throwing around labels that hardly anyone else is or will. Even with the frenzy now-a-days to try to say how many positions players can play (esp. when speaking of International players) it's pretty curious that most have said Bosh is a true post player who like K.G. who weighs... 220 lbs. And yes... I have seen references to him being "wiry strong".

Oh and you act like nobody else has seen Bosh play.

It's a little crazy to think that Bosh won't be able to add say 10-15 lbs over the course of say two or three years if not more. So, your idea that he will have to change positions is OUT THERE! 

I mean... if he can't put on at least ten [10+] pounds then Strength and Condition industry needs to go out of business.


> 5. Im done talkn about Bosh,cuz the Raps wont trade him and the Heat wont trade for him!


And you're point???

I never said either would or should...


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## Football Fanatic (Jun 8, 2003)

um hell no, toronto has to be crazy to do that trade


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## Football Fanatic (Jun 8, 2003)

Bosh is 6'11, he aint a tweener


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## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

> That's my point! YOU are the only one making the claims that BOSH may be a "tweener".


Ur kidding:laugh: 

I never said anyone called him a tweener but me!



> So I was asking you where you got that bit of ridiculous analysis from.


Bosh has the range,speed,handle,court vision and footwork to play SF!If Bosh cant put on weight he wont be able top play in the paint,which would force him to play SF!



> Bosh is what?? 210 lbs...?? Some say he still might be growing...Keon Clark is what?? 221 lbs??? And is Keon a "tweener"??


Why do u keep comparing Bosh to Clark?!?!Bosh has the talent to play SF/PF,but Clark doesnt!Even if Clark wanted to play SF he couldnt so why are u comparing the 2???Keon might only be 221lbs but hes proven that hes tough enough even at that weight to play inside in the NBA!U said it urself that KVH is 255,but even at that weight hes NOT tough enough to play inside in the NBA,which is why he was moved to SF,and that makes him a tweener!



> All I'm saying is YOU shouldn't be throwing around labels that hardly anyone else is or will.


1. I will say whatever I want whenever I want!

2. If Bosh cant put on the muscle EVERYONE will be calling him a tweener!



> Even with the frenzy now-a-days to try to say how many positions players can play (esp. when speaking of International players) it's pretty curious that most have said Bosh is a true post player who like K.G. who weighs... 220 lbs. And yes... I have seen references to him being "wiry strong".


Its funny that K.G. is called a SF/PF who prefers and is better at playing outside then in!The main reason K.G. gets away with being 220lbs is that 50% of the time he plays SF and outside,but hes got the skill and talent to play inside!



> Oh and you act like nobody else has seen Bosh play.


I never said that!U made it sound like everyones opinion on Bosh was wrong but yours,and that only u knew anything about him!I was just letting u know that ive seen Bosh play many times,and that ive been following him for awhile!


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Football Fanatic</b>!
> Bosh is 6'11, he aint a tweener


That's what I've been saying.

That label just doesn't fit him.


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## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

> Bosh is 6'11, he aint a tweener





> That's what I've been saying.
> 
> That label just doesn't fit him.


If he can put on muscle he wont be,but if he cant he will!Even if he puts on the weight u dont know that he will be tough enough to play in the paint in the pros!

We'll see in a few months!


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HEATLUNATIC</b>!
> 
> Its funny that K.G. is called a SF/PF who prefers and is better at playing outside then in!The main reason K.G. gets away with being 220lbs is that 50% of the time he plays SF and outside,but hes got the skill and talent to play inside!


You need to check your BBall Delusions...

Why is K.G. considered one of the http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/6614084] Top NBA POWER Forwards [/URL] IF your take is what is...??? He's #2 on this list.


> *U made it sound like everyones opinion on Bosh was wrong but yours*,and that only u knew anything about him!I was just letting u know that ive seen Bosh play many times,and that ive been following him for awhile!


No... HEATLUNATIC!!!

I said YOUR opinion and more specifically YOUR "tweener" label was off-base. I've really only been arguing with you over his position so if anything "I made it sound like YOUR opinion was/is WRONG!" And, unlike you, I use what has been widely reported about him and his skills in the media as a basis instead of just my own opinion. And in so doing I found a marked difference in between what has been said about him and Eddie Griffin who was quickly and profusely labeled a "tweener" when Bosh has not been so labeled.

*And really... About K.G.*
He moved to the SF spot out of necessity because Minny couldn't find adequate SG (after Malik Sealy) and decided to move Wally there for more production at that spot.

Now that they got Sprewell... tell me what he will be "called"??

HEATLUNATIC... 
You're cool and all but you go too far with your ideas of what positions players play. Odom, as many have said, [1] would be a waste at PF because his skills would be of more use elsewhere and [2] wouldn't be strong enough day-in day-out...


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

> NMAGE:
> That's my point! YOU - HeatLunatic - are the only one making the claims that BOSH may be a "tweener".
> 
> HEATLUNATIC:
> ...


You have a problem understanding English??

When I say, "You are the ONLY one..." that means I'm saying ONLY you called him a "tweener" and whether you said anyone called him that or not is besides the point. Mr. "I never said"

I'm talking about what you DID say!! And "I never said", that you said, that anyone else said what you said... lol

You should just let it go. My kids know what it means when I tell them they are the only ones subscribing to an unwarranted mindset. That means they and you in this case have little or no basis for their/your position. And you, against all reason and the preponderance of the evidence, insist on your mal-contrived notion.

No, "you never said anyone else called him a tweener" so that's why I wonder why you think you are so right about this!

I guess we will see...


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HEATLUNATIC</b>!
> 
> Bosh has the range,speed,handle,court vision and footwork to play SF!If Bosh cant put on weight he wont be able top play in the paint,which would force him to play SF!


Why does this clip say something different??


Scouting report: Declared for the draft after just one year with the Yellow Jackets. *Quick, athletic big man* who runs the floor well and **can beat most players his size** off the dribble. _Most dangerous facing the basket *from the post.*_ Has nice shooting touch **for his size**. *Works hard for position* and *has good footwork <u>down low</u>*, but will have to bulk up to bang with NBA power forwards. Only 19 years old, so still physically developing. *Quickness off the floor makes up for lack of strength when rebounding.* Averaged 15.7 points, 9.0 rebounds and made 46.8 percent (22-for-47) of his 3-point attempts in college. *Didn't shoot from behind the arc often*, but was very accurate when he did. Named to the ACC's second team and was a member of its All-Defensive team. Shot 56 percent to lead the conference in field goal percentage, only the second freshman ever to do that; North Carolina's Antawn Jamison was the first in 1996. Consistent free-throw shooter at 73 percent. Named High School Player of the Year by Basketball America in 2002. 
 http://ramblinwreck.ocsn.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/062603aaa.html 

As to why I could even begin to compare him to Keon...
I think you might take that issue up with so many others who happen to compare him to both Keon and Garnett...
*Chris Bosh *

6-10 PF Georgia Tech/Freshman
Stats: 15.6 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 2.1 bpg, 56.0 FG%
The Skinny: You want the skinny? You're looking at him. Bosh is another in a long line of tall, thin forwards with tremendous athleticism *(Kevin Garnett, Jermaine O'Neal, Pau Gasol)* who would be centres if only they had more strength. We're talking Keon Clark skinny. But *he has a reasonably well-developed post game* and has a surprisingly well-rounded game for a 19 year old. Only question is mental toughness.

***Best Case Scenario: Kevin Garnett
**_Worst Case Scenario: *Keon Clark*_
Chances That He'll be a Raptor: If the Raptors don't land a top three pick, Bosh would be a good fit. He's the kind of talent missing from the team's frontcourt since Clark left. Of course, if they take him in the lottery, they better hope for more than another Clark.

 [url]http://www.nba.com/raptors/news/Drafting_A_Winner_030520.html[/URL] 
I list those things and reference the media commentaries on Bosh not because they are "exact" but most definitely represent the 'consensus' analysis of a players talents. For the record, I find not fault with what is said above.

Matter of fact, the "Mental Toughness" seems to be a major determinant...


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## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

Butler for Bosh? There's no way both of these teams would do this.


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## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nmage</b>!
> 
> You need to check your BBall Delusions...
> 
> ...


Why does ESPN.com have K.G. listed as a SF and NBA.com have him listed as a F???Hes just like Dirk in the sense that hes a combo forward!The best way to use his skills is to rotate him at both positions!Its ur opinion that my opinion is wrong!:laugh:The bottom line is that if Bosh cant put on weight he will have to play SF which would make him a TWEENER!


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## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nmage</b>!
> 
> You have a problem understanding English??
> 
> ...


If u agree that im the only one that said Bosh could be a tweener,and that no one else said it,why the hell do u keep askn me to give u proof of other people sayn that Bosh is a tweener?!?!


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## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

> No, "you never said anyone else called him a tweener" so that's why I wonder why you think you are so right about this!





> I guess we will see...


I'll let it go for now,and we'll wait and see what Bosh does this season.


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

One last thing HEATLUNATIC....

Reconcile this for me. One draftee: Brian Cook
(who happened to have played in 'my backyard' - i.e. town where I live now)

From the same site that NEVER allude to BOSH being a "tweener" or a possible SF, look at what they say (whether I agree with it or not) about COOK who is 240 lbs!!!


> Brian Cook
> Notes: Big Ten Player of the Year, Third Team All-American
> The Skinny: Cook is an intriguing prospect with his size and skills. While he projects as a power forward and has skills more geared towards that position, he is athletic enough to play some small forward and has the outside shot to play there for spells.
> 
> ...


Okay... let's compare that to BOSH


> Chris Bosh
> Notes: Second Team All-ACC, ACC Freshman of the Year
> The Skinny: Chris Bosh may be turning pro a little early, but given how he's developed so far, it won't be long until he becomes a productive NBA player, if not a star. The first thing one notices about Bosh is his combination of length and skill. Bosh is extremely mobile, and knows how to score either in the post or facing the basket. He is fundamentally sound in many ways, yet still has the athleticism to be explosive offensively. Defensively, Bosh can be an intimidating shot blocker and is solid on the boards. The big question with Bosh is his strength - can he effectively gain weight and muscle to battle the big boys down low at power forward in the NBA.
> 
> When Bosh entered high school, he was a gangly kid who essentially used his height to dominate down low. But he has quickly developed his God-given talents to become an extremely smooth, versatile, and skilled player. At best he could be a David Robinson, *at worst he could be a Keon Clark.* Either way, he'll be a high lottery pick, likely in the Top Five.


So tell me... is it solely a player's physical size or their "game" that dictates their position/utility??

Cook is 240 lbs...


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HEATLUNATIC</b>!
> 
> If u agree that im the only one that said Bosh could be a tweener,and that no one else said it,why the hell do u keep askn me to give u proof of other people sayn that Bosh is a tweener?!?!


Dude...

I asked you that several times before you said "I never said..."

I was asking you to corroborate your idea of him being a "tweener". And I really was asking for info. in the media rather than other posters opinions. Why should anyone always have to base everything they say on exactly what you say???

If we're talking about the president and you call him "intelligent" and I asked you to verify or support your statement by saying that no one or nothing I've read calls him 'intelligent' so could you show me how you arrive at that conclusion (based on what has been said about him) then the issue is not whether or not you ever claimed that anyone else made the statement but you. The issue is whether you have an opinion based on what is "commonly" believed or strictly based on your own opinions.

You keep making non-issues with that "I never said" stuff.

There's no way humanly possible for anyone to say everything you can possibly say or not say.


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>HEATLUNATIC</b>!
> 
> I'll let it go for now,and we'll wait and see what Bosh does this season.


To reiterate and maybe say it more forcefully than before...
Bosh is gonna take a while to develop. I think he can 'get over' playing against other teams 2nd Unit for now but he will struggle strength wise if he starts though he might even have spotted success there, IMO.

I will say this...
I'm glad things are looking up for the HEAT. I really wished they would have won or at least made it to the Finals in the ZO, Hardaway, Thunder-Dan Era...

I hated the Knicks then, though I wanted them to beat MJ when Patrick "Choke" Ewing was the 'man' in NYC!

No hard feelings... just a Fanatical, Lunatic fan like yourself!

PEACE!!


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## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

> So tell me... is it solely a player's physical size or their "game" that dictates their position/utility??


What I think dictates a players position is their skill,size,length,strength and toughness!



> I was asking you to corroborate your idea of him being a "tweener". And I really was asking for info. in the media rather than other posters opinions. Why should anyone always have to base everything they say on exactly what you say???


When I said this



> If u agree that im the only one that said Bosh could be a tweener,and that no one else said it,why the hell do u keep askn me to give u proof of other people sayn that Bosh is a tweener?!?!


I meant why do u keep askn me for info from places like ESPN,NBA,NBADraft,SI.....................I didnt mean posters on this site,and I dont think,want or expect anyone to base everything they say on my opinion!



> No hard feelings... just a Fanatical, Lunatic fan like yourself!


:cheers:


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

Whoa, chill people. Seriously. 



> Why does ESPN.com have K.G. listed as a SF and NBA.com have him listed as a F???Hes just like Dirk in the sense that hes a combo forward!The best way to use his skills is to rotate him at both positions!Its ur opinion that my opinion is wrong!The bottom line is that if Bosh cant put on weight he will have to play SF which would make him a TWEENER!


BTW, this is largely because ESPN is often incorrect. However, they are partially correct here. The Wolves had Joe Smith last year play PF, moving Garnett to SF. KG is versatile enough to do that. Two years ago, they had the 6'8" Gary Trent play 4 because Trent is all muscle and brawns. However, often KG also rotated inside to play PF. This year, I feel that he will play 4. So nba.com is correct in putting him down as a forward.


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>FanOfAll8472</b>!
> Whoa, chill people. Seriously.
> 
> BTW, this is largely because ESPN is often incorrect. However, they are partially correct here. The Wolves had Joe Smith last year play PF, moving Garnett to SF. KG is versatile enough to do that. Two years ago, they had the 6'8" Gary Trent play 4 because Trent is all muscle and brawns. However, often KG also rotated inside to play PF. This year, I feel that he will play 4. So nba.com is correct in putting him down as a forward.


Yeah those sites can do a bad job of classifying players.

I don't know why K.G.'s "natural" position of PF is questioned. I've never heard him mentioned even on that writer's list (Mike Kahn??) as one of the Top SF... (Note: He listed Antwan Walker as a SF.) Every discussion I ever had or heard about Top PF's in the NBA on TV, on-line, etc. it's K.G., Tim Duncan, Dirk, Karl Malone, etc. all in the mix... Regardless of their versatility... (Duncan can play and has played C for stretches... Unless you consider Malik Rose a 6'7 mini Shaq.)

MSNBC list DIRK as a F/C! lol NBA.com only uses generic G,F,C whereas ESPN tries... A lot of the marginal players and rookies a terribly classified, BTW.


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

Interesting Note on CHRIS BOSH.... from ESPN 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/d03/story?id=1572845

*Chris Bosh | PF | 6-11 | Georgia Tech* 

[Chad] Ford's Take: 
"The Raptors tried to trade this pick, but couldn't find any takers. Bosh was the next best player on the board. At his size and with his skill set, _his upside is similar to a Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett._ The Raptors have to be patient, but he'll be worth it. He exceeded expectations during his freshman year and several NBA GMs think he'll do it again. *He's already gained 15 pounds of muscle since he left his school.* Once he gets stronger physically, I think the Big Three of the draft will be the Big Four. "

So, HEATLUNATIC...
That would make him about 225 lbs or so right?? And that's at what?? At age 19?? I think he may be well on his way, though he seems to have Jermaine O'Neal's not-so-broad shoulders! :grinning:


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## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

I dont think K.G.,Dirk,Tawn,Cliff,KVH or Thomas should be listed as PF or SF,but F in general!All of them are best suited to rotate between both positions during a game,cuz none of them have the strength and toughness to stay inside and get pounded by the BIG PF/C like Shaq,Duncan,C-Webb,Brand,Amare,Malone and K-Mart for an entire game.On the flip side of the coin none of them have the speed to stay with SF like Matrix,Mash,Peja,Odom,R-Jeff,Big Dog and Caron for an entire game either!If u watch any of them play u will see that ALL of them get rotated between SF/PF all game every game!


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## HEATLUNATIC (May 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Nmage</b>!
> Interesting Note on CHRIS BOSH.... from ESPN
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/d03/story?id=1572845
> ...


1. I didnt know that he was already 225lbs!If he can keep it on and add another 5-10lbs he should be fine at PF!

2. Lets see if he can keep it on?!?!I remember a few years back when the Knicks were getting real excited about Camby putting on 15-20lbs during the offseason,yet all of it came off during training camp and the first 5 games of the season!


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## bigbabyjesus (Mar 1, 2003)

My take on this subject, Miami will _not_ trade Caron, they are building this heat franchise around him.

If the Raptors trade Chris Bosh, I can tell you right now, it won't be yet another wing player, who the Raptors have enough of. Our starting frontcourt consisting of Jerome Williams and Antonio Davis is getting very old, with the only other big man that has proved he can start is Michael Bradley. So if we trade Bosh, it will definetly be for help up front.

For those of you who don't know, Bosh has increased his weight to 225 lbs., compared to the 210 lbs. he was in his freshman year. He also has said he will hope to come into the season at 235 lbs.

He has great work ethic, so I have no doubt in my mind this can happen, and if he does, he will be able to play three positions in SF, PF, C IMO. 

I have always compared his post game to Jermaine O'Neals', but his outside shot and athleticism to Kevin Garnett.


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## Nmage (Aug 19, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>hellbot</b>!
> 
> If the Raptors trade Chris Bosh, I can tell you right now, it won't be yet another wing player, who the Raptors have enough of. Our starting frontcourt consisting of Jerome Williams and Antonio Davis is getting very old, with the only other big man that has proved he can start is Michael Bradley. So if we trade Bosh, it will definetly be for help up front.
> 
> ...I have always compared his post game to Jermaine O'Neals', but his outside shot and athleticism to Kevin Garnett.


Do you think Jerome Moiso will help any??
Is Bradley really that good (to start)??
Who will start at SF?? Murray or Mo Pete?? And what kind of contribution do you anticipate from them?

Also, does anyone remember how much J. O'Neal weighed when he came into the league? Though he was behind several PF in Portland, it took him five years to "develop"...

I agree with comparing Bosh to O'Neal too!
------------------------------
Anyway.... 

The Heat better get Stepania signed to complete their roster. That way they can avoid playing Odom at PF and B.G. at full-time C.


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## NOBLE (Apr 10, 2005)

:lol:


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

NOBLE said:


> :lol:


damn, this thread is like from 3 years ago LOL


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## thekid (Apr 3, 2003)

Imagine if such a deal was ever possible and made? Wade and Bosh? Or maybe Bosh would of been included for Shaq!


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

*bangs head on wooden desk several times*

Okay... I'm okay now...


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## IbizaXL (Sep 21, 2005)

i wasnt even a memeber of bbb.net back then.
If you guys wouldve asked me about this subject, i wouldve disagreed 100%. I really liked Butler, i to this day, hes one of my favorite players in the NBA


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

wadeshaqeddie said:


> No way i would do it...... Caron is our franchise player and is not going to be traded


LOL


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