# 2005 Toronto Raptors: Roster, Salaries, Picks, Draft, Etc.



## speedythief

*Roster/Salary Information*












*Outstanding Draft Picks*

1st Round:

2005: Toronto Raptors (Provisionary)
2005: Philadelphia 76ers (Protected/top-8)
2006: Toronto Raptors (Provisionary)
2006: Denver Nuggets (Protected/top-5)
Owed: 1st Round Pick (Charlotte via Cleveland/Murray Trade)

2nd Round:

2005: Toronto Raptors
2005: Miami Heat
Owed: 2nd Round Pick (Orlando via Bateer Trade)


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## speedythief

Code:


			W	L	%
01	Hawks		13	69	0.159
02	Bobcats		17	65	0.207
03	Hornets		18	64	0.220
04	Jazz		26	56	0.317
05	Blazers		27	54	0.333
06	Bucks		30	52	0.366
07	Knicks		33	49	0.402
08	Raptors		33	49	0.402
09	Warriors	34	48	0.415
10	Lakers		34	47	0.420
11	Magic		36	46	0.439
12	Clippers	37	45	0.451
13	Cavaliers	42	40	0.512
14	Wolves		44	38	0.537


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## ballocks

babcock said several things of interest on the radio earlier today. the first one definitely belongs in this thread, but i'm not sure whether anyone else has mentioned it already. regardless...

1) the status of the pick we owe charlotte is top-17 protected this year. it's top-16 protected next year, but swirsky cut him off at that point, so i'm not sure when it is that we owe it to the bobcats outright. however, if i remember correctly from the grunwald days, it's top-15 protected in 2007, top-14 protected in 2008 and owed outright in *2009*. but don't quote me on that, i think i'm paraphrasing his thoughts from the AD-jalen press conference. 

2) mourning is _sick_. i didn't know this beforehand, at least i didn't believe it- i was cynical- but babcock sounded like mourning couldn't play even if he wanted to. that surely stands in contradiction to what jim jackson said a couple of weeks ago, but who knows... the point is that babcock probably couldn't get him to play under healthy conditions, that's true, but it's moot since he's _not_ healthy. what's more, babcock didn't seem interested in convincing him either; it just sounded like "convincing him" wouldn't make a lick of difference. 

and the mourning figures above are enormous. i still can't get my head around that horrific trade concession but i guess that's life.

peace


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## pspot

thanks great post....
i think the Jazz, Knicks and even Blazers will have much better second halfs and i would expect them to pass us in the standings


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## JuniorNoboa

Thanks for the post - confirms that I though, that our payroll next year even if we were successful in dumping Jalen would be $40M. I assume we would still be right near the cap, so we would not be able to sign someone good.


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## madman

i doubt this would happen but do you think that babcock could talk alvin into not using his player option and then signing him for less?


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## The Mad Viking

> Originally posted by <b>madman</b>!
> i doubt this would happen but do you think that babcock could talk alvin into not using his player option and then signing him for less?


Uh, absolutely no chance. 

So if I read it correctly,

in 2005 we will likely have our 1st round pick as well as Philly's.
and we will get only Miami's 2nd round pick, :sour: as ours is headed to Chicago to complete the Bonner transaction.

In 2006 we will get Denver's first round pick. If we stay around / below .500 we will get to keep our pick as well. But if we improve our team record to roughly 44 wins, we will likely lose our own 1st rounder to Charlotte. 

As far as contracts go, we get no meaningful cap space until 2007.

Incidentally, there is an error on the salary table. It has Alvin down for $7.5 in 2007-2008, the year after his player option. This is not correct. The only contractual arrangements that year will be Rafer's and a max salary for CB4.


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## speedythief

> Originally posted by <b>The Mad Viking</b>!
> Incidentally, there is an error on the salary table. It has Alvin down for $7.5 in 2007-2008, the year after his player option. This is not correct. The only contractual arrangements that year will be Rafer's and a max salary for CB4.


I've seen two different listings for Alvin's contract, Patricia's and the one hoopshype has, and both of them have him with a year after his player option. HH has it listed at about $7M and Patricia has it at $.5M more.


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## JL2002

I always thought this is Lamond's last year....


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## spuriousjones

i think we've paid the pick for Bonner already


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## pspot

so if we do buy out Zo for 9 mil and he signs with another team, we still pay for it against our cap or does it not count because he was picked up?


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## speedythief

> Originally posted by <b>pspot</b>!
> so if we do buy out Zo for 9 mil and he signs with another team, we still pay for it against our cap or does it not count because he was picked up?


The amount we buy him out for is what counts against our cap. So if we bought him for $12M, $4M counts against our cap each season. I think.


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## speedythief

> Originally posted by <b>spuriousjones</b>!
> i think we've paid the pick for Bonner already


Did we swap with Chicago last season?


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## SkywalkerAC

It should be less than 5 mill a season for ZO right? The buyout has to be spread over the remainder of this season as well, I would think. 

Somehow I don't think we give Chicago our first second rounder this year. 

Man it would be nice if Denver choked next year. Two lotto picks in back to back years could be huge.


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## speedythief

> Originally posted by <b>SkywalkerAC</b>!
> It should be less than 5 mill a season for ZO right? The buyout has to be spread over the remainder of this season as well, I would think.
> 
> Somehow I don't think we give Chicago our first second rounder this year.
> 
> Man it would be nice if Denver choked next year. Two lotto picks in back to back years could be huge.


I think they said that we were going to spread Zo's buyout over the next two years, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense from a cap perspective but the buyout doesn't anyways, so who knows.

I don't know when we owe the second-rounder. We might have already paid it back. It's just owed in the future, otherwise.


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## trick

just looking at that 07-08 cap space has me salivating

:drool:

and i believe that second rounder the bulls used to get duhon was ours.


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## MentalPowerHouse

trick said:


> just looking at that 07-08 cap space has me salivating
> 
> :drool:
> 
> and i believe that second rounder the bulls used to get duhon was ours.


I think it's a little misleading cause Bosh should be in his first year of a Max contract. If we just give him the qualifying amount I think he becomes a free agent? So add another 7 mil or whatever there, plus the salaries of 4 first round picks the next 2 years, we looking at another 10 mil in salary there also. So that puts us up to around 37 mil... we wont really have alot of money until the year after when Alvin comes off.

We aren't actually in such a bad position. With good drafting we could potentially battle for a playoff spot next year while buying time for our contracts to expire. Alston is are only long long term contract right now, its onlys about 1/10th of capspace, which isn't really that bad. With good drafting in the next 2 years, We are looking at Alston, Bosh, Araujo, and 4 first round picks on our team and capspace. If Araujo actually turns out decent we are looking good going foward into our Bosh era of this franchise. The next 2 years are kinda like flushing out the VC era.


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## speedythief

Just FYI, I've been updating the lottery standings every day or every other day or so, so if you guys want to know where we stand at any given time, check out the second post in this thread on the first page.


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## ballocks

i really like this thread. thanks, speedy.

two things:

1) we have a team option on sow this summer? is that correct? i've never heard of that pertaining to second rounders, but it would be good if it were true. well, not necessarily... it might be better if he were unrestricted this summer... anyway, i guess this is for another thread, but i still don't think we have an option on him in 2005. i think he's in the same boat as bonner although matt did play a year overseas... don't know if that changes anything...

2) (not that important) i think zo's contract counts against the cap for 4.8M next season and 5.2M the year after. from what i recall, the buyout figure is broken up in the same percentages as the remaining years on the original contract. so i think the next two seasons were 48 and 52% of mourning's remaining contract, respectively, hence 4.8M and 5.2M on the buyout. (i think it might have been more than 10M, too, but who knows... close enough...)

peace


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## speedythief

ballocks said:


> i really like this thread. thanks, speedy.
> 
> two things:
> 
> 1) we have a team option on sow this summer? is that correct? i've never heard of that pertaining to second rounders, but it would be good if it were true. well, not necessarily... it might be better if he were unrestricted this summer... anyway, i guess this is for another thread, but i still don't think we have an option on him in 2005. i think he's in the same boat as bonner although matt did play a year overseas... don't know if that changes anything...


According to Patricia, anyways.

http://www.dfw.net/~patricia/contracts



> 2) (not that important) i think zo's contract counts against the cap for 4.8M next season and 5.2M the year after. from what i recall, the buyout figure is broken up in the same percentages as the remaining years on the original contract. so i think the next two seasons were 48 and 52% of mourning's remaining contract, respectively, hence 4.8M and 5.2M on the buyout. (i think it might have been more than 10M, too, but who knows... close enough...)
> 
> peace


I'll change it, no problem.


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## speedythief

I'm trying a code-format for the lottery order (second post in thread). Somebody tell me if they mind it this way. It's easier for me to use excel and pop it in here than to continuously be changing the pictures.


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## Turkish Delight

I never realized how much over the cap we still were.
I thought we were lingering around the mid 50s at most, but over 60 mill? 
That's crazy.


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## bigbabyjesus

As for the lottery, it doesn't look like we're ever going to crack top 6, unless Golden State continues playing very well, and we lose a lot.


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## Crossword

vigilante said:


> As for the lottery, it doesn't look like we're ever going to crack top 6, unless Golden State continues playing very well, and we lose a lot.


 Golden State's gonna end the season with around 30 wins, probably just shy of that. But still not enough to beat the Raptors.


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## Vinsanity

Is Shannon Brown for MSU coming out next year, this dude looks impressive, maybe a more athletic MoPete?


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## arcade_rida

Vinsanity said:


> Is Shannon Brown for MSU coming out next year, this dude looks impressive, maybe a more athletic MoPete?


Which is what we dont want. But I think Brown is better and more consistent then Moe Peterson. If Moe was consistent we would ahve a 17 ppg scoring player on our hands but instead we have an 11 or 12


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## butr

Speedy,

Did you update the Zo money based on the buyout. I think the # should be closer to 3.+ per.

And for the 2nd post, one can't only post win percentage because although the Sixers are where they are via percentage, they get bumped to no worse than the 15th pick because they are the 8th seed.


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## speedythief

If the Warriors keep playing the way they are, they might pass us in the final stretch, putting our pick as good as 7th.


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## speedythief

blowuptheraptors said:


> Speedy,
> 
> Did you update the Zo money based on the buyout. I think the # should be closer to 3.+ per.


I think it is $10M over the next two seasons, this season not being included in the buy-out.



> And for the 2nd post, one can't only post win percentage because although the Sixers are where they are via percentage, they get bumped to no worse than the 15th pick because they are the 8th seed.


No, I know, but it's easier for me to do bottom-15 than it is to keep switching when Minnesota and Philly are in and out of the last seeds.


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## Magus Relmyn

Don't we have another 1st round pick this year, and next year because of the VC deal?


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## butr

speedythief said:


> I think it is $10M over the next two seasons, this season not being included in the buy-out.


Nah, it's 10 for the entire remainder of the deal. This is why Zo mentioned leaving 6 mill on the table.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#58


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## speedythief

blowuptheraptors said:


> Nah, it's 10 for the entire remainder of the deal. This is why Zo mentioned leaving 6 mill on the table.


Can you give a player a full season portion of a buyout mid-way through that season, though?


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## butr

speedythief said:


> Can you give a player a full season portion of a buyout mid-way through that season, though?



He had probably already been paid this year's buyout worth in regular salary. The 10 covers 3 years, as opposed to 16 over 3.  How you pay it becomes irrelevant, all that matters is how it gets counted vs. the cap, which is how Larry outlines it in the link.


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## speedythief

blowuptheraptors said:


> He had probably already been paid this year's buyout worth in regular salary. The 10 covers 3 years, as opposed to 16 over 3. How you pay it becomes irrelevant, all that matters is how it gets counted vs. the cap, which is how Larry outlines it in the link.


Ok. So what do you think the annual increase is? Like this year he makes $2.66M, then $3.33M next season, then $4M in the last year?


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## butr

speedythief said:


> Ok. So what do you think the annual increase is? Like this year he makes $2.66M, then $3.33M next season, then $4M in the last year?


Take whatever his salary is in each year and reduce by the associated amount. He took about a 37.5% hit from 16 to 10. Apply a reduction in that amount each year.


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## Turkish Delight

Well with tonight's embarassing defeat, and the Warriors holding on to a lead at half time right now, I think we have a good chance of moving up in the draft.


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## jays2005

Raptors should just lose every game in next years season so we get a better draft pick.. I bet were going to have a simular record next year too... I have a feeling were going to have problems with Rose next year


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## Turkish Delight

jays2005 said:


> Raptors should just lose every game in next years season so we get a better draft pick.. I bet were going to have a simular record next year too... I have a feeling were going to have problems with Rose next year


Welcome to the site jays2005!
Hope you enjoy your stay here.

And yeah, losing the rest of our game would be beneficial from a drafting standpoint. I still want us to win a couple of games down the road, notably the Nets game. I know it may hurt our chances at getting a higher pick in the draft, but IMO it's worth it.


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## DwyaneWade

HU here thinks Jalen Rose is making too much money???? srry turkish, but im just askin',, hu thiinks that and why


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## DwyaneWade

DwayneWade said:


> HU here thinks Jalen Rose is making too much money???? srry turkish, but im just askin',, hu thiinks that and why



MA bad, i now realize, Jalen Rose is a real raptor. Wants to win, always wants to get the shot, and likes Toronto. Hes worth it, sprewell, is gettin as much as him, and hes doing ---- compared to Rose. Rose is worth.
:biggrin:


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## speedythief

He's making too much, but there's not much we can do about that. We'll be happy he had such a huge contract in two years when he creates a huge amount of cap space for us to sign someone.


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## Turkish Delight

I'm going to make a re-sign Rose club.


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## speedythief

Turkish Delight said:


> I'm going to make a resign Rose club.


Better make it a re-sign Rose club. Otherwise you might give people the impression that you want to force him to retire.


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## Turkish Delight

speedythief said:


> Better make it a re-sign Rose club. Otherwise you might give people the impression that you want to force him to retire.


Woops, you're right.
I guess I'm just getting tired with all those game thread posts.
But as I said, wait until the beginning of the 2006/2007 season, and I'll have that up on my signature.


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## DwyaneWade

yo turkish, before he came to Toronto, hu was ur favourite player?


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## TM

Don't you already have a PG?

Teams Are Contacting Me [Jason Williams].... 


> It pumped me up for the Toronto Raptors to call and see how I am. I received some other calls from some other teams. I


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## speedythief

TonyM said:


> Don't you already have a PG?
> 
> Teams Are Contacting Me [Jason Williams]....


Awesome!


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## Turkish Delight

DwayneWade said:


> yo turkish, before he came to Toronto, hu was ur favourite player?


Well even before Jalen Rose came to TO, he was one of my favorites. But other than him, probably Hedo Turkoglo or Ron Artest.


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## charlz

Turkish Delight said:


> Well even before Jalen Rose came to TO, he was one of my favorites. But other than him, probably Hedo Turkoglo or Ron Artest.


Rose off the court is a very cool guy - but on the court he showed in the 2nd 1/2 of the season that he can give teams fits even though he plays in slow motion (seemingly).


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