# Winners and Losers



## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

IMO - 

winners - celtics, pacers, nuggets

losers - bobcats, wolves, raptors (though it wasnt as bad as everyone's saying)


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Granger was a steal for the Pacers, and Green was for the Celtics.

I'm still mixed on the Bobcats picks. I want to like them, but I'm still unsure about them.


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

The Pacers pick was good, but it could have been much better with Green, Jack, or Garcia.


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

PacersguyUSA said:


> The Pacers pick was good, but it could have been much better with Green, Jack, or Garcia.


green maybe, but i dont see how you would have wanted jack or garcia over danny granger.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

A losers list isn't complete without the Sixers.


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## Debt Collector (Mar 13, 2003)

PhillyPhanatic said:


> A losers list isn't complete without the Sixers.


true that, louis williams? HS combo guard? no thanks.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Winners: I think Detroit is a winner. Maxiell is perfect. Amir Johnson is another great selection and after a few years in the NBDL should be ready to rock and roll. Darko might need to pack his bags.

Denver is also a winner with Hodge ( and with the new NBDL rules, Kleiza and Sanchez). 

Golden State is a winner with Ellis (NBDL) and Taft and Diogu. They ready to bang and battle next year. Indiana drafted a ready made 6th man of the year as a rookie. Great selection. He'll be ready to go from Day One.

Losers: Orlando (what are they doing?). Screwing Diener over. Wrong team for him. 

LA Clippers, passed on Granger, Graham, Wright and Green. Then took Daniel Ewing, who will never make it. :hurl:

New York Knicks. Channing Frye, Nate Robinson and David Lee. Ugh. Nuff said. I love Nate, but at No. 21 (5'7) over Jarrett Jack & Luther Head = stupid. Isiah, you've done it again. Horrible team. 

Malik Rose, Michael Sweetney, Jerome Williams, Maurice Taylor, David Lee = all guaranteed contracts. 5 PF's. Ugh.


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## scapegoat (Feb 20, 2004)

Winners: Pacers, Bobcats, Raptors (if they can turn Charlie V into Magloire), Celtics, Bucks
Losers: Pistons, Clippers, Sixers, Knicks (have fun with Nate, Dijon's going to be big), Lakers


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## scapegoat (Feb 20, 2004)

HKF said:


> Winners: I think Detroit is a winner. Maxiell is perfect. Amir Johnson is another great selection and after a few years in the NBDL should be ready to rock and roll. Darko might need to pack his bags.
> 
> Denver is also a winner with Hodge ( and with the new NBDL rules, Kleiza and Sanchez).
> 
> ...


I agree with all of this except for Detroit. The 'Stons needed a scorer off the bench and got a "Ben Wallace clone" according to ESPN. Explain how that's perfect.


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## cmd34 (Jul 17, 2002)

Losers: 
Lakers for drafting 2 players who will not see an ounce of playing time for Phil Jackson during his 3-year contract. Also, for ignoring to address the PG issue.

and me..for thinking Kupchak might actually make some decent picks today.


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

scapegoat said:


> I agree with all of this except for Detroit. The 'Stons needed a scorer off the bench and got a "Ben Wallace clone" according to ESPN. Explain how that's perfect.


I've thought this immediately before Mike Tirico stole my thunder, but Maxiell could really serve a Corliss Williamson role for Detroit. In a good way. Stick that guy at SF on a team like Detroit, and he's a matchup nightmare for everyone's reserve core.


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## jreywind (May 30, 2003)

Winners: Jazz for getting their man, Pacers and Cs for getting mid level lottery talent outside of it, Bucks for putting aside any rumors and grabbing the big man

Loosers: Lakers, how is this going to help Phil; Charlotte for having Utah leapfrog and then left with Felton; Toronto, I don't know who to draft with Webster gone...how about Vill


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

scapegoat said:


> I agree with all of this except for Detroit. The 'Stons needed a scorer off the bench and got a "Ben Wallace clone" according to ESPN. Explain how that's perfect.


I am very pleased with the pick, because this team is still going to use it's calling card for defense. The Pistons still have the MLE to fill the scorer off the bench role.

Maxiell will play immediately. Acker and Johnson will be developed in the NBDL. Darko and Delfino are probably on the block, so if Darko is moved, the Pistons should probably get a good scorer for him. 

I just love the potential to beat you up with Wallace, Wallace, Maxiell and McDyess. The Pistons-Pacers in the ECF's is looking like a good bet to me.


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## KokoTheMonkey (Aug 4, 2003)

I like what Seattle did. Of course, I don't know how Petro and Gelabale will turn out, but that's two low-risk high reward picks. 

I won't contribute anything else other than to say that I don't understand the Maxiell pick. From what I saw of Detroit, Mcdyess was already in need of more minutes, and now they have Maxiell? Maybe this was just an insurance pick if Ben Wallace decides to leave.


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## scapegoat (Feb 20, 2004)

Rawse said:


> I've thought this immediately before Mike Tirico stole my thunder, but Maxiell could really serve a Corliss Williamson role for Detroit. In a good way. Stick that guy at SF on a team like Detroit, and he's a matchup nightmare for everyone's reserve core.


That's what Gomes could've done. What I want to know about Maxiell, can he score?


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## Carbo04 (Apr 15, 2005)

Winners - Charlotte, Denver, Boston

Losers - Suns, Clippers, Magic


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## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

PacersguyUSA said:


> The Pacers pick was good, but it could have been much better with Green, Jack, or Garcia.


Instead of getting the defensive stopper point guard or tall back up shooting guard they needed, they got small forward with an injury problem. It's a good pick, but I'd rather have had one of those three.


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## sheefo13 (Jul 13, 2002)

The Wolves are the losers of the draft..... It is that simple.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

KokoTheMonkey said:


> I won't contribute anything else other than to say that I don't understand the Maxiell pick. From what I saw of Detroit, Mcdyess was already in need of more minutes, and now they have Maxiell? Maybe this was just an insurance pick if Ben Wallace decides to leave.


Well Larry Brown, played Tayshaun Prince in Game 7 over Elden Campbell and Darko Millicic defending Duncan (when he was dominating). I think that stretch showed how they view Darko.

I would have initially said that Maxiell was a reach, until it was Dumars who drafted him. I'm sold on him being productive in their system. Dunking on folks, blocking shots and being an intimidator, even if he is only 6'6.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

winners - the bobcats are a big winner. i thinkn felton may be the best guard in this draft and they have may to put next to okafor in the paint. now they are set upfront with may at pf, okafor at pf/c, and brezec at c. felton is their pg and they have some decent wing players, but it shouldn't be hard for them to upgrade there.

the warriors are another big winner. they add diogu and taft upfront and then have ellis that they don't need to contribute at all any time soon. they filled their needs upfront well.

the pacers are another winner. granger at their pick was a steal and now they are huge on the perimeter. lorbek in the 2nd wasn't a bad pick and he could end up being a decent backup.

the wizards are a big winner too. they came into the draft with the 49th pick, but ended up with 1st round talent.

losers - the knicks end up with 3 first round picks and still have a bad draft. i don't like frye at all. he's a backup and they picked him at 8. i guess he's better than anything they have at center. then they pick robinson. he would be fine for a team like the suns, but where does he fit with marbury and crawford already there? then david lee. there were definately better players there that would have given them the size they needed(taft, turiaf). the knicks are really the only big loser to me as far as teams that had a big part in the draft.

a lot of people don't like toront0's draft, but i think villanueva was fine at 7. they probably could have gotten him at 16, but at 7, i don't think he's a bad pick. i think he'll end up being one of the better players in this draft. him and bosh do play the same position, but they can always slide one over to center and play with two pfs. the pick i don't really like is graham. i just don't see it in graham and i've seen him play a lot. this pick wouldn't be as bad except that green and granger were both available. but in the 2nd round, ukic was a great pick. they needed a pg and he provided 1st round talent at a late pick.

turiaf, taft, ukic, and blatche are all big steals in the 2nd round.


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## jreywind (May 30, 2003)

PacersguyUSA said:


> Instead of getting the defensive stopper point guard or tall back up shooting guard they needed, they got small forward with an injury problem. It's a good pick, but I'd rather have had one of those three.


Man I almost always agree with you, but you are flat out wrong about Granger not being what they needed. I think Pacers and Celtics ended up with the biggest steals of the draft.


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## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

CELTICS!!!!!!!!!!!!

After being rumored to possibly trade up in the draft they stayed put and essentially got a early-mid lotto pick & a mid-late 1st for NOTHING.

Green and Gomes are HUGE steals where they were taken, I was hoping Granger would drop one more spot, he also is a HUGE steal, but the celtics got TWO!!!! TWO!!!!!


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## BootyKing (Apr 7, 2005)

scapegoat said:


> Winners: Pacers, Bobcats, Raptors (if they can turn Charlie V into Magloire), Celtics, Bucks
> Losers: Pistons, Clippers, Sixers, Knicks (have fun with Nate, Dijon's going to be big), Lakers


Dijon Thompson is off to the suns and the suns sold Marcin Gortat, to the Orlando Magic.


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## Dodigago (Jan 13, 2005)

I think SAC was a winner..


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## StilltheChamp (Apr 8, 2005)

Even though they had one 2nd round pick I thought the sixers had a horrible draft. Louis Williams? No thank you.


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## crowTrobot (Jun 24, 2005)

winner - nuggets if they get miles out of the jack deal


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## 22ryno (Mar 17, 2003)

Winners
*Bobcats*- Got two sure things. Did nothing flashy and took the winners.
*Celtics*- WOW really capatalized on LA's dumb mistake. 
*Trailblazers*- robbed the Jazz. Got the player they wanted and a backup point
*Raptors*- Charlie is a wildcard. Got their impact players in Graham and Ukic.

Losers
*Lakers*- Could have had Andrieskevicuis, Ukic, and Gerald Green but got Bynum, Turiaf, and Wafer. KUPCHAK sucks.
*Nets*- Jefferson and Carter play 35+ minutes when is Wright gonna see the court.


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## cpawfan (Jun 20, 2004)

scapegoat said:


> That's what Gomes could've done. What I want to know about Maxiell, can he score?


Yes he can score. He has been facing double teams in the post for 3 seasons. Allow him to operate one on one against other reserves and he will be very productive for Detroit.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Jason Maxiel was a nice pick up because when they go Wallace, Wallace, and Maxiel in the frontcourt he is going to be the post version of Ron Artest. It allows Sheed to do what he wants to do, roam along the perimeter.

I also have to say that the Grizzlies got a good player if they can find a role for him. Also picking up Lawrence Roberts should be good for our bench.

Brian Cardinal, Hakim Warrick, Lawrence Roberts...Jerry West is trying to get the Isiah Thomas undersized PF Award 2005-06.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

Losers:

Orlando Magic

Fran Vasquez at 11? Terrible Terrible Terrible. Graham, Granger, Wright, Green, May, all still available. Then they take Jameer Nelson clone Travis Diener, and that big lithuanian guy, who was a nice pick at 44.... only to trade him. Wow...


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## Magyarn (Mar 27, 2005)

22ryno said:


> Winners
> 
> *Trailblazers*- robbed the Jazz. Got the player they wanted and a backup point
> [


Even if the trade was good for them, they hardly robbed the Jazz. The Jazz got what they wanted too, which is the whole concept of a trade.


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## Busta (Jun 25, 2005)

I think Minnesota did fine in the draft by taking McCants. Id have rather seen them take a bigger guard like Green or something, but McCants under KG who is gonna make him work hard, will be good. 

Indiana totally will be the deepest team in the league if they stay healthy. And they got a steal

Denver did well with Hodge, but they shoulda taken Garcia who can also play a little point (they wont need him to) is a tough guy and a shooter, which is what they needed. I think they just believe Hodge is the better player and will get their starting SG through FA or with Voshon


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

*Winners:*
Celtics: Not just Green, but Gomes too. I don't know about the other Greene, but they made out like bandits.
Blazers: They got their man while trading down and drafted Jack. I like Jack and Telfair running the team and at long last, they added a shooter.
Bobcats: Local heroes, solid players, they're ready to run a lot next year.
Warriors: More depth up front, Ellis to the NBDL for a couple years, but Diogu can really help the shot-blocking, rebounding, *and* post scoring.

*Losers:*
Knicks: Frye is a center but soft, they don't need Lee, and where does Robinson fit in?
T-Wolves: Could've taken a more well-rounded player (Graham, Granger) who will actually play D. Don't get me wrong, McCants could immediately put in 15 ppg in a Ben Gordon type role, but I don't feel McCants is the type of player the Wolves need right now.


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## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

22ryno said:


> *Nets*- Jefferson and Carter play 35+ minutes when is Wright gonna see the court.


48 - 35 = 13. 13 x 2 = 26. Wright should easily get 15-20 minutes every night. He was a great pick for New Jersey.


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## maka2506 (Jun 27, 2005)

*UKIĆ IS THE BIGEST STEEL and Toronto is THE WINNER of all winners!!!!!!*


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## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

cmd34 said:


> Losers:
> Lakers for drafting 2 players who will not see an ounce of playing time for Phil Jackson during his 3-year contract. Also, for ignoring to address the PG issue.
> 
> and me..for thinking Kupchak might actually make some decent picks today.


This post is moot because, ANYBODY Kutshaq drafts is not going to play anyways. PJ won't play rookies just for spite. If you are getting a project, why not the biggest project around??


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## The_Franchise (Mar 30, 2003)

FanOfAll8472 said:


> *Winners:*
> Celtics: Not just Green, but Gomes too. I don't know about the other Greene, but they made out like bandits.
> Blazers: They got their man while trading down and drafted Jack. I like Jack and Telfair running the team and at long last, they added a shooter.
> Bobcats: Local heroes, solid players, they're ready to run a lot next year.
> ...


Agreed. I'd also call Denver a loser. Could've had their shooter in Garcia, instead they draft bust Julius Hodge and some borderline utility players.


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## X-JAY (Dec 24, 2004)

Please explain to me how Granger was a "great pick and a steal" while Wright was a normal pick?
You can argue that Wright will be a better pro and they were picked #15 and #17.


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## shrixer78 (May 18, 2005)

I had thought Denver did well...but then I was really sad when they traded Jack. I was happy that he and Hodge were headed in the same direction. Oh well.


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## JuniorNoboa (Jan 27, 2003)

Winners: Teams that got players much lower then the mock consensus

Losers: Teams that got players higher then the mock consensus,

Now that was easy. We all know these sites know more then NBA scouts.


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## ian (Jun 4, 2003)

HKF said:


> Well Larry Brown, played Tayshaun Prince in Game 7 over Elden Campbell and Darko Millicic defending Duncan (when he was dominating). I think that stretch showed how they view Darko.
> 
> I would have initially said that Maxiell was a reach, until it was Dumars who drafted him. I'm sold on him being productive in their system. Dunking on folks, blocking shots and being an intimidator, even if he is only 6'6.


That's Larry Brown, not "them" Larry also sat LeBron and Amare at the Olympics. Darko isn't going anywhere and Joe has said he'll be getting minutes next year

If Joe Dumars was ever going to give up on Darko, Darko would be gone already. See: Mateen Cleeves and Rodney White.

You're right that Maxiell fits the Pistons system, he'll be a nice 3/4


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

ian said:


> You're right that Maxiell fits the Pistons system, he'll be a nice 3/4


jason maxiell is not a sf. he is a pf. anyone that is expecting him to play and contribute at sf is going to be disappointed. he may be undersized, but he is definately a pf.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

Obviously not the biggest winners of the draft, but the Miami Heat made a great pick in Wayne Simien. This is the perfect situation for him to go into, and he's got the talent to go alot higher in the draft. At pick #29, he is a guy who can contribute right now, and has the potential to have a bright future in Miami.


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## ATLien (Jun 18, 2002)

Hawks are winners. Marvin Williams is going to be great for the team and city. Salim is not a great pick, but it's not a bad one either.


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## AirBonner (May 28, 2005)

Winners

- San Antonio (I don't know anything about Mahinmi but SA always picks gems so i doubt they stop now)

- Golden State 
- Indiana

Losers

- New Jersey
- New York
- LA


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## jalen5 (Nov 19, 2004)

Winners:

New Orleans - Hornets grab the best point guard in the draft in Chris Paul. He is a flat out winner and natural leader. He will be the Hornets PG and leader from day 1. Also take a big time sleeper in local player Brandon Bass in 2nd round. Bass has 1st round talent. Everybody talks about him being undersized, but there are alot of successful "undersized" players in the NBA. Bass will add to that list. 

Charlotte - Bobcats draft pure winning basketball players in Felton and May. Felton will be a good PG for a long time in the NBA, and May has INCREDIBLE hands and touch around the basket. Both have alot of talent and will help sell tickets.

Golden State - Diogu will be solid. Taft was a steal in round 2. Drafting Monta Ellis in 2nd round has a CHANCE to pay huge dividends if he develops in the NBDL.

Indiana: How did Danny Granger last to 17??? That's amazing. He has top 10 talent and will be a contributer immediately. 

Boston: See above. Gerald Green at 18??? Wow. Again, top 10 talent. Also, Gomes was a steal in round 2.

Honorable Mention: Portland and Detroit.

LOSERS:

Toronto: Could have had Danny Granger and Jarrett Jack, but instead drafted Charlie Villanueva and Joey Graham. Villanueva was flat out a dumb pick. They could have saved themselves if potential 2nd round steal Roko Ukic pans out. But again, how do u pass on Granger or Green at #7??? It boggles my mind. I'm not too sure what is going on up there in Canada.

New York: I like the trade to get Q, but why Nate Robinson when you could have gotten Jarrett Jack?? Don't understand it. Also, don't like Frye at #8. He's a soft center.  Again, Granger or Green??

Orlando and LA Clippers: Once again, passing on Granger and Green for Fran Vasquez and Yaroslav Korolev respectively doesn't seem too smart to me. Then Orlando takes Diener when they could have had Taft, Blatche, or Ukic. I thought they could have made up for it a LITTLE when they took Martynas Andriuskevicius late in round 2, but then they trade him to Cleveland!!! Also thought Clips could have done better than Ewing at the top of the 2nd round. 

Denver: I'm not too high on Julius Hodge, but that's not even what I'm critical of here. Drafting Jack and then trading him for Linas Kleiza and Ricky Sanchez was not a good move in my opinion. It's not who they traded (Jack) that I don't agree with, it's who they traded him for (Kleiza and Sanchez). If they would have traded Jack for almost ANY two other players, I wouldn't be so hard on them, even though I think Jack will be a really good player.


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## OGR (Mar 9, 2005)

I don't understand how the Knicks are losers.

They fill a need at center, they get a true backup PG (When Marbury was out of the game the net loss was like -10), and they get a PF (David Lee, he's 6'9, close to 6'10, as tall as Turiaf, and like an inch shorter than Taft) who can rebound, and score in the post. Sorry for not going after projects and potential busts. We got guys who are coachable, great work ethic (which means they'll improve) and play their hearts out. Thumbs up.


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## FanOfAll8472 (Jun 28, 2003)

Nate Robinson is a true point guard? He plays a lot more like a combo guard than some true point guard. Don't kid yourself, he's probably better than JC at the point, but that's not saying much.


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## Drewbs (Feb 16, 2004)

knicks wouldve been much better off drafting Jarrett jack over nate robinson. Robinson is a real standout being short and so athletic, but JAck is simply a much better play.


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## Blazer Freak (Jul 11, 2004)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> Obviously not the biggest winners of the draft, but the Miami Heat made a great pick in Wayne Simien. This is the perfect situation for him to go into, and he's got the talent to go alot higher in the draft. At pick #29, he is a guy who can contribute right now, and has the potential to have a bright future in Miami.


You do know Simien is fragile as hell right? I guess if MIA has got some good docters they can give him some limb replacements, then maybe he'd be alright.

If he can stay healthy though, steal for the Heat. I like the guy, just way too injury prone.


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## goNBAjayhawks (May 3, 2003)

Do YOU know Simien is fragile as hell? It's not like he's had re-occuring injuries his whole life. He got karate chopped, he got jammed under the rim, if those things dont happen he's fine. The longest stretch he was out was his shoulder injury, which took 22 games, which he came back too early for, which he got fixed in the off-season, and that was his sophmore season, so it's been 2 full years and that shoulder hasnt bothered him at all. His freshman year he missed 5 games at the beginning of the year to heal from a artho knee surgery, and that knee hasnt bothered him since and that was almost 4yrs ago. And then after missing no games his Jr year, he missed about half a dozen with a broken finger after it got karate chopped, and then his ft% went from 90 to 80, oops, but that also didnt effect his play, he has not had re-occuring injuries that have kept him out of games. Every player has to stay healthy, every player can get injured, and Simien is no different then any other player when it comes to injuries


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Bah, the Knicks draft stunk. Okay, I understand Frye (but damn Granger was sitting right there). Nate Robinson was a horrible selection. I love Nate, but if you truly wanted a PG, you'd take Jack over him. Nate is not going to have a better pro career than Jarrett. David Lee, well he's redundant as hell. 5 PF's on the roster including him.

The Knicks get an F in my book.


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## jmk (Jun 30, 2002)

AirBonner said:


> Winners
> 
> - San Antonio (I don't know anything about Mahinmi but SA always picks gems so i doubt they stop now)
> 
> ...


Explanation?


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