# Clippers to make a big offer to Allen



## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

The title says it all, it has been mentioned that Sterling is letting Dunleavy spend big money in persuing Ray Allen.


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

Chad Ford said this, I don't believe it


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

We all knew this was going to happen for the past 8 months after bryant said no. 

I dont think allen signs with us though straight up. Hes going to want to do a sign and trade if anything, to get the extra year and 15 mililon+


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

hopefully the clippers arent fooling around though. Just start out, straight out offer the max, which isnt so bad under the new CBA (one less year, less % increase each year), and see if hes interested. If not at first, ask if hed be down with a sign and trade for the returning player max, if seattle was ok. If he gives us a "no way," then lets move on to redd, hughes, or a trade for pierce.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

yamaneko said:


> hopefully the clippers arent fooling around though. Just start out, straight out offer the max, which isnt so bad under the new CBA (one less year, less % increase each year), and see if hes interested. If not at first, ask if hed be down with a sign and trade for the returning player max, if seattle was ok. If he gives us a "no way," then lets move on to redd, hughes, or a trade for pierce.


I agree, it seems like the Clippers are serious about Allen. I would really like to see him in a Clipper outfit. I think him being in LA is very nice since he does not like Kobe and would be trying to out do him. I hope all goes well.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

dont see him wanting to go anywhere else other than seattle or here. The other teams that can afford him are mostly small market places, and/or he wouldnt be THe guy (such as in cleveland)


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## C-Mag fan (Jun 23, 2005)

That's true, the thing in our corner is our team is much more attractive (dumb draft aside) than other teams with money, unless he stays put. But let's keep this on a short leash. If its not going to happen, I would not even go with the sign and trade. Move on to Redd and Hughes.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

I think that something else that is floating around is that Allen would consider re-signing if McMillian was still there.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Clippers sure do have a lot of options. I too just saw the article that hinted at a simmons/wilcox for pierce trade. Last year it was kobe or bust. This year we can go in many directions.

Perhaps the reason why the clippers got someone like yaric is because they full on planned on bringing in a big time SG/SF, meaning that someone like granger or wright would be stuck on the bench anyway.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

I'm not so sure offering someone thats 30 a contract like that. I mean theres no arguement that he's better than Wilcox and Corey... But Corey is very young and show that if he can devlope his baller IQ a little that he could be VERY good. I personally would only sign him, if it ment we didn't have to give up Corey in the process.


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## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

Allen will love it here in LA.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

"Allen received immediate interest from Atlanta and the Los Angeles Clippers when the free-agent season commenced one minute after midnight Thursday. Cleveland, New Orleans and Charlotte are the only other teams with the cap space to offer a contract to compare to what Seattle can offer, and clearly only the Cavaliers can reasonably promise a better on-court future than the Sonics."

We're just damn fools.

We'll be right there with Atlanta in free agent acquisitions: 0


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## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

Just wait... it ain't over until it's over.


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## bobsuralover (Apr 28, 2005)

guys, ray allen wants to win! and i im a sonics fan and it just doesnt seem hes gonna sign w/ you guys, you just dont win as much you know what im sayin lol, no offense seriously


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## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

I would hope they would make him a big offer, I don't know if he wants to leave Seattle though.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Seattle will be loosing some of their players from last year, which many still view as a fluke, yet the clippers retain their key players hopefully if they get simmons back, so it seems to be a better situation.


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## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

Seattle will only be taking a hit if Allen wants to leave. I think that will be the force that gets the ball rolling.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

> Although final details of the new collective bargaining agreement are not yet available, it is thought the Sonics could offer Allen a contract for as much as $115 million over six years. It is unlikely, however, they will offer more than their current proposal of $75 million.
> 
> The team also seems unlikely to offer a sixth season because of Allen’s age. He will turn 30 this month.


From a seattle newspaper. I do think that if thats true, the clippers have an excellent chance. Clippers can even offer more than seattle is now, or they could go all out and arrange a sign and trade at the max. 

The age thing doesnt bother me for a couple of reasons. Allen is in his prime right now. Even him at 90% his prime in his 3rd/4th year of his contract is worth more than most people in the league. Also, the contracts are now one year less. The clippers by then, even if he really drops off in talent, will most likely still have their allen houston exception available, allowing them to spend more money without taking a luxury tax hit by letting him go.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

It also says the Clippers won't offer him a 5-year deal, meaning they have a 0% chance of signing him.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Good the offer has been extended. I don't see how people can assume where he wants to go unless they are Ray Allen. He will do what he does.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Allen isn't signing with the Clippers. I think we know this don't we? Why are they even wasting their time on him? Try to get Larry Hughes instead.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/sonics/story/4990812p-4558275c.html 



> “From my vantage point now, there is not any opportunity I can say no to. It is different to sit down and talk to somebody eye to eye and hear about philosophies and direction. It’s like when there is a new movie out and everybody tells you that you will hate it, and then you go and see it and you like it. Or vice versa, and everybody likes it and you hate it. You just never know until you go and see for yourself.
> 
> “Obviously, I look at different things. But most guys in free agency want to see that the organization is moving forward. Most guys think championship. There are no guarantees, no matter who you sign with. When the Lakers signed all those guys a few years ago, there was no guarantee they were going to win a championship. And they didn’t. Jason Kidd put himself in a position to win a championship in New Jersey, and he hasn’t won one. But that’s all you hope you can accomplish is to put yourself in a good position.”


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

One positive the Clippers have is that they played Seattle very well. And I heard on a pre-game breakdown before a Seattle, Clipper game that the Seattle coaches felt that the Clippers where the toughest team for them to match-up aganist.


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## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

Starbury03 said:


> One positive the Clippers have is that they played Seattle very well. And I heard on a pre-game breakdown before a Seattle, Clipper game that the Seattle coaches felt that the Clippers where the toughest team for them to match-up aganist.


True, the way I see it, a lot of good teams had trouble matching up against the Clippers front court. But well, in terms of Seattle, they didn't outrun the Clippers like Phoenix did, and they had a small line up.

Of course Allen would also make it tough for teams to match the Clips back court.


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

ok i put up stats of maggs vs pierce, now maggs vs allen
PPG: Allen - 23.9 Maggs - 22.2
RPG: Allen - 4.4 Maggs - 6
APG: Allen - 3.7 Maggs - 3.4
FG%: Allen - 42.8% Maggs - 43.1%
3PT%: Allen - 37.6% Maggs - 30.4%
FT%: Allen - 88.3% Maggs - 85.7%
SPG: Allen - 1.08 Maggs - 1.06
BPG: Allen - .06 Maggs - .12

take your pick, same #'s pretty much, corey's younger and cheaper


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## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

Allen doesn't make the last minute mistakes though.


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## qross1fan (Dec 28, 2004)

yea he doesn't true, but Maggs is improving, i mean we didn't have any real big last minute moments til this past season. we went 4-13 in games decided under 3 points, the rest of the years, did we even have 10 games decided by 10 points or less total? corey has never been in a real last minute situation, i mean the 2 games after we beat the grizz (durin the f'ed up road trip we always have) maggs didn't touch the ball the last possession. or the game at home against pistons(man i hate bringing it up) double ot loss, i didn't see maggs with a chance to win the game for us. he never gets the ball in his hands except against the heat, and even if he did and messed up, he gains experience which he can use this coming season. keep corey, keep simmons, trade wilcox for wright, call sofo over, keep rebraca and playoffs in 06


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## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

Wilcox for Wright sounds good.


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## myELFboy (Jun 28, 2005)

of course Ray is going to keep his options open. 

& also, Ray lived in milwaukee in the offseason when he played for the Bucks--i don't think that big markets like LA or NY would sway his opinion on where to play. he's not GP or a guy like that. Seattle isn't too big of a market---known for Starbucks, Space Needle, Mt. Rainier, and rain. 

The SOnics had this same situation happen with Rashard Lewis--he wanted max, Sonics offered 7yr/60 mil. He went into free agency, looked into Dallas, but came back to sign with Seattle. Of Course, he isn't Ray Allen, and Ray is one of a kind. What i think is holding Ray up is the coaching situation--he doesn't know if Nate will be back, yet Nate doesn't know if Ray will be back. it's a gridlock situation, and Sonics management better figure something out. Apparently they're all working very hard on contracts right now.


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## myELFboy (Jun 28, 2005)

Starbury03 said:


> One positive the Clippers have is that they played Seattle very well. And I heard on a pre-game breakdown before a Seattle, Clipper game that the Seattle coaches felt that the Clippers where the toughest team for them to match-up aganist.


 
just to add to that, Popovich thought that Seattle was the hardest matchup for them, & they are the defending champs.


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## kamego (Dec 29, 2003)

myELFboy said:


> just to add to that, Popovich thought that Seattle was the hardest matchup for them, & they are the defending champs.



I'm going to say SA probally would answer Detroit after the finals.


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## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

Well, it's sort of like a rock, paper, and scissors match up.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&id=2098094&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dford_chad%26id%3d2098094 



> The Clippers are making a big push to bring Ray Allen to L.A. With talks still rocky between Allen and the Sonics, the Clippers could be his final destination once the process works itself out. If the Clippers could pull it off, they would be serious playoff contenders next season.


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## swift88 (Jul 4, 2004)

Money talks, and Allen will never retire along one team. I hope it works out, allen is a winner and a nice dude.


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

Ray said he did not want to play for a team like the Clippers and I don't think he would change his mind. He's not as young as our guys, so playing for the Clippers would be an ego thing for him.

The last thing we need is a disgruntled player that is on our team only for the money, ala Kittles.

Drop it ... Ray is not going to be a Clipper and I don't want him here anyway if it means losing any of our core players. If you will be honest with yourselves, you will recall that after he made that comment, he displayed a somewhat streak of arrogance that was unlike the Ray we have all come to know. I don't know where it came from, but it didn't sit well with me and made me think that he has the potential to be bad news in a locker room.


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## fotojenic (May 29, 2003)

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/sonics/story/4990812p-4558275c.html....

Asked if he would seriously consider any of those teams, all of which have histories of poor ownership and losing seasons, Allen responded:

“From my vantage point now, there is not any opportunity I can say no to. It is different to sit down and talk to somebody eye to eye and hear about philosophies and direction. It’s like when there is a new movie out and everybody tells you that you will hate it, and then you go and see it and you like it. Or vice versa, and everybody likes it and you hate it. You just never know until you go and see for yourself.

“Obviously, I look at different things. But most guys in free agency want to see that the organization is moving forward. Most guys think championship. There are no guarantees, no matter who you sign with. When the Lakers signed all those guys a few years ago, there was no guarantee they were going to win a championship. And they didn’t. Jason Kidd put himself in a position to win a championship in New Jersey, and he hasn’t won one. But that’s all you hope you can accomplish is to put yourself in a good position.”


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

swift88 said:


> Money talks, and Allen will never retire along one team. I hope it works out, allen is a winner and a nice dude.


Exactly money talks. He may have said what he said earlier in the season but it looks like he is viewing the Clippers proposal. What does that mean? Talk is cheap.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Dynasty Raider said:


> Ray said he did not want to play for a team like the Clippers and I don't think he would change his mind. He's not as young as our guys, so playing for the Clippers would be an ego thing for him.
> 
> The last thing we need is a disgruntled player that is on our team only for the money, ala Kittles.
> 
> Drop it ... Ray is not going to be a Clipper and I don't want him here anyway if it means losing any of our core players. If you will be honest with yourselves, you will recall that after he made that comment, he displayed a somewhat streak of arrogance that was unlike the Ray we have all come to know. I don't know where it came from, but it didn't sit well with me and made me think that he has the potential to be bad news in a locker room.



It UTTERLY kills me to agree with you Dynasty. Stick with youth. Allens great, but old and we already have a cheaper version of him. Plus he is a crybaby, and doesnt fit into the flow of the Clippers if you ask me.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

> Ray said he did not want to play for a team like the Clippers and I don't think he would change his mind. He's not as young as our guys, so playing for the Clippers would be an ego thing for him.


He has also said he would consider the Clippers. Another article posted today says he would consider any team. Nice for you to conviniently forget these issues. Also, what in the world did this come from about his age? That is one of the biggest reaches i have heard. Allen is older than some guys on the Clippers, thus there must be an inevitable ego problem? First of all, im sure there will be older people on the clippers next year than him, and besides, where would you come up with the idea that even though not, there would be some kind of ego problem? Im actually not even sure if youre saying the clippers would have the ego problem since theyre younger, or if ray would have it because hes older. That statement didnt make much sense to me, sorry.



> The last thing we need is a disgruntled player that is on our team only for the money, ala Kittles.


Again, Im not sure where youre coming from with this. Allen comes here only 1 of 2 ways. 1. he turns down more money, longer contract from seattle, jsut to be with us, or 2. he agrees to a sign and trade to come to our team. First of all, that takes out your disgruntled theory since he has to choose to come here. Also, he wouldnt be here for the money since seattle could off him more, and the clippers cannot offer more than any other team. Third of all, kittles was never disgruntled, he was HAPPY to be here, and wanted to be with the clippers a while before the injuries. Not to mention that he was not here for the money since he was traded to the clippers and still under a contract he had signed years ago with new jersey. Other than that, your statement was right on. 



> Drop it ... Ray is not going to be a Clipper and I don't want him here anyway if it means losing any of our core players.


If youre saying that, its just a matter of opinion. Nothing is certain until someone signs with someone. If you dont want him here if it means loosing our core players who havent brought us a playoff apperance, thats entirely up to you. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But dont go out and make statements that ray is going to do this, someone else will do that, because you have no more information on that than us, the clippers, nor any other team in the league. 

RD, ive done it many times before, you havent so much often. Please come on here and explain to the newbies why is it an allen or pierce type player is more beneficial to us in the W/L column than a simmons or maggette.


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## myELFboy (Jun 28, 2005)

well, of course Ray will consider all teams right now. You don't go into free agency with a closed mind. I still believe he'll ultimately end up back with Seattle, or to Cleveland. I read somewhere, and of course these rumors don't mean ****, that if he doesn't get a deal done with Seattle, he wants to be on an eastern conference team. This was on the ESPN boards, and whether there's any credibility, I don't know.

*We do not allow masked cursing*


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

myELFboy said:


> well, of course Ray will consider all teams right now. You don't go into free agency with a closed mind. I still believe he'll ultimately end up back with Seattle, or to Cleveland. I read somewhere, and of course these rumors don't mean ****, that if he doesn't get a deal done with Seattle, he wants to be on an eastern conference team. This was on the ESPN boards, and whether there's any credibility, I don't know.
> 
> *We do not allow masked cursing*


I don't remember where I heard this but I recall that Ray didn't want to be second fiddle on a team which he would be on the Cavs.


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## myELFboy (Jun 28, 2005)

sorry about the masked cursing.

it was on the ESPN boards--like I said, is it credible, who knows. 

then again, most people assume that Ray will end up in one of those---none of us know his intention truly, so i guess we'll all see come july 22.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

A new thing that I have picked up is that the Clippers can offer more money than the Sonics are offering Ray and will.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Weasel, please start putting links! Youve got some great info, and wed like to read these articles, as well as post it on clippersdaily!


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

yamaneko said:


> Weasel, please start putting links! Youve got some great info, and wed like to read these articles, as well as post it on clippersdaily!



I would but they are espn insider, that is why I don't put links or quote them.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

since when do you have insider?


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

yamaneko said:


> since when do you have insider?



I don't but I end up getting info from it from other people.


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## myELFboy (Jun 28, 2005)

but if push comes to shove, Seattle can offer 6 yrs, which Ray would prefer. he has all but stated that he wants 6 yrs not 5, if going to Sonics. Will Sonics management step up & take the chance, remains to be seen....


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

If seattle doesnt want to pay him 6 years, they would be smart to try to at least negotiate a sign and trade in order to get something out of him


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

No way, Sterling is not known for his knack of spending big money


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## Dynasty Raider (Nov 15, 2002)

fotojenic said:


> http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/sonics/story/4990812p-4558275c.html....
> 
> Asked if he would seriously consider any of those teams, all of which have histories of poor ownership and losing seasons, Allen responded:
> 
> ...


Thanks foto, I'm happy to read that change in attitude. So, I guess ... money talks and he is willing to talk to and play for us (if the price is right). 

I say, go for him. BUT, not at the expense of our core and that includes Simmons.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

> No way, Sterling is not known for his knack of spending big money


Actually, he is. 2 years ago he committed, what, 120-150 million to maggette and brand? Last year he offered 120 million to kobe by himself, and this year has allowed baylor to spend big?


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## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

Not to mention an offer of 60mill to Arenas.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/story/4993625p-4560559c.html 



> The Clippers have an estimated $16 million available under the salary cap, and with Elton Brand, Corey Maggette, Shaun Livingston, Chris Kaman and Chris Wilcox already under contract, the Clippers could offer Allen most of their available money. It is believed they could offer Allen a five-year contract for $89 million – though that is contingent on the details of the league’s new collective bargaining agreement.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/story/4993625p-4560559c.html 



> While Nate McMillan is being wooed by the Portland Trail Blazers and New York Knicks, Seattle SuperSonics CEO Wally Walker confirmed Friday that the team has given McMillan a deadline of the middle of next week to make a decision about where he wants to coach next season.



I believe this is a key factor for the Clippers, if McMillan does not go back to the Sonics this might leave a window of opportunity for the Clippers getting Ray.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

In the end, the Sonics have the ultimate trump card because they can offer Allen a sixth year, which no other team can do. That means their current offer of five years and $75 million could be increased to as much as six years and $115 million – though it seems unlikely the Sonics would go that high. However, they could offer additional incentives to make Seattle’s offer more attractive.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Marcus13 said:


> In the end, the Sonics have the ultimate trump card because they can offer Allen a sixth year, which no other team can do. That means their current offer of five years and $75 million could be increased to as much as six years and $115 million – though it seems unlikely the Sonics would go that high. However, they could offer additional incentives to make Seattle’s offer more attractive.



Do you think that Ray would go back to the Sonics even if they don't have coach McMillan and Allen gets his 6th year?


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

seattle really is walking a fine line if theyre not only not offering allen the max, but not even offering him a maxed out 5 year deal. Bucks are smart, they right off the bat are offering redd the max.


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## myELFboy (Jun 28, 2005)

yamaneko said:


> seattle really is walking a fine line if theyre not only not offering allen the max, but not even offering him a maxed out 5 year deal. Bucks are smart, they right off the bat are offering redd the max.


no, the Sonics management was somewhat smart not to throw the Max @ Ray. He originally wanted 5yr/$90 mil @ the beginning of the season. Sonics originally offered 5yr/$70 mil. Then they raised it to 5yr/$75 mil. Then Ray countered that offer with a $5 mil incentives package. That $5 mil is what determines a lot. The Sonics can now use that package, or 6th year if need be, to please Allen. Having Nate back will help to.

In all honesty, _if_ nate goes anywhere, I'm thinking Portland. His family is all in Seattle, & Portland would be the best option, because it's a short flight away. Now, nate has stated that money is not the issue, it's who the Sonics will bring back (priority is Ray). The Blazers are in rebuild mode with high school kids, rookies, & sophmores. The veterans of that team are gone. So is Portland really that interesting to Nate? prob. not, but he making a statement to the Sonics that he isn't afraid to look elsewhere, & that they can't use the 'hometown' advantage on him. Also, that he doesn't want to coach a team without it's superstar.

Plus, why would he talk about the summer league, and what's going on with that? If he was really not considering coming back, why would he have been so involved with draft decisions etc.? Nate isn't the type to bail out after working really hard on something. but then again, he could leave. I guess by next week everyone will know for sure.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/clippers/la-sp-nbacol3jul03,1,5595131,full.column?coll=la-headlines-sports-nba-clippe 



> Seattle's Ray Allen, offered $75 million against a maximum of $110 million by hard-line owner Howard Schultz, is listening to offers from the Clippers and Cavaliers. However, the Clippers can't pursue Allen and Bobby Simmons at the same time. Simmons is being wooed by Houston and Cleveland…


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## myELFboy (Jun 28, 2005)

Apparently the Blazers offer to Nate is $6 mil, not $8. That makes me feel more confident in a Nate return. 

Seattle is still high on getting Ray back, apparently, so if they have to they'll add incentives to his deal that he originally asked for.

Ray's the key for a lot of returns---A.D. says he wants to come back to seattle, which I'm sure is more for Ray than anything else, even though he said he loved the city and fans; that might sway him to come back, who knows.


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## WhoDaBest23 (Apr 16, 2003)

I've never even thought about the possibility of Ray going to the Clippers. That would be awesome, but they would have to pay a HUGE price for him. They have a chance though. I like the Clippers approach to FA. I just hope they don't come out empty handed like last year.


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## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

You're kidding right? Allen a Clipper? We have a better chance of winning the championship next season. :clap: 

Which by all means is not out of reach. :biggrin:


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Weasel said:


> http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/clippers/la-sp-nbacol3jul03,1,5595131,full.column?coll=la-headlines-sports-nba-clippe



For some reason, I could see Simmons doing great with the Cavs.... But we should be seeing him do something great in LA... :curse: 

I have a bad feeling were not going to get him or Allen.... that would be at tragic offseason.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

yamaneko said:


> Actually, he is. 2 years ago he committed, what, 120-150 million to maggette and brand? Last year he offered 120 million to kobe by himself, and this year has allowed baylor to spend big?



And a couple of seasons doesn't cover up a great many seasons of poor spending and cost cutting.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Sterling has a history of EXCELLENT spending, paying the right players, and not paying the undeserving players. But even THAT is irrelevent. What IS relevant, is what sterling has done the last few years, and what hes doing right now, because that is the only thing that players will be interested in, and that actually counts. A player like allen is not going to look if loy vaught was given a contract extension in 95 (thank goodness he wasnt), he is going to look at what path the clippers are on the last couple of years, and where does it seem they are going. 5 years ago, a player might have wondered if the clippers would ever shell out big bucks. Now, it shouldnt be a question.


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