# Lacy's sources say Du is set to sign with Bulls!!



## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

> A source close to Chris Duhon said the free-agent guard will sign with the Bulls in the next couple of days.



http://www.suntimes.com/output/bulls/cst-spt-bull22.html


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## ChiBulls2315 (Aug 11, 2002)

*Re: Lacy's sourses say Du is set to sign with Bulls!!*

Good. One down.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: Lacy's sourses say Du is set to sign with Bulls!!*

I'm interested to see what figures he settled on. Did he get his 3 years, $6M? Or did he settle to the LLE? Or maybe something in between. Either way, great news to hear something [almost] finished. I suppose this means Tyson is next on the waiting list?


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

I love me some Du! :clap: 

Here's to hoping he is a backup PG this season (indicating improvement by Gordon this offseason).


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: Lacy's sourses say Du is set to sign with Bulls!!*



yodurk said:


> I'm interested to see what figures he settled on. Did he get his 3 years, $6M? Or did he settle to the LLE? Or maybe something in between. Either way, great news to hear something [almost] finished. I suppose this means Tyson is next on the waiting list?


Right on.


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## FreeSpeech101 (Jul 30, 2004)

:clap: :cheers:


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

I wouldn't say it's a done deal yet. Duhon's agent, Bill Duffy, put out some interesting quotes today in the Orlando area paper:



> Last summer, Orlando was able to snag restricted free agent Hedo Turkoglu from San Antonio by offering him their entire mid-level exception.
> 
> They might have to do the same if they are to snatch Duhon away from Chicago. Duhon started 73 games last season -- many ahead of Ben Gordon, the league's Sixth Man of the Year -- while averaging 5.9 points and 4.9 assists.
> 
> ...


:eek8: 

Part of that, I'm sure, is Duffy just fishing for an offer, but it's also not exactly what I want to hear at this point either.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Mikedc said:


> I wouldn't say it's a done deal yet. Duhon's agent, Bill Duffy, put out some interesting quotes today in the Orlando area paper:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah really, what's this garbage about "sneaking one by [the Bulls]"? Duffy makes it sound like he's trying to screw us over. I just have a real hard time seeing Orlando put alot of effort into getting Duhon. They already have Diener and didn't they just agree to terms with Dooling? And this is all assuming that Francis is their full-time SG.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

Puffy Duffy. The guy is notorious for junk like this.

Wasn't he the guy doing Anthony Carter a few years ago? Didn't he also represent Mario Austin in all the crazy crap allegedly happening in Russia?

I don't respect him much, although I'm sure he's secured some crazy lucrative contracts for his clients.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

Mikedc said:


> I wouldn't say it's a done deal yet. Duhon's agent, Bill Duffy, put out some interesting quotes today in the Orlando area paper:
> 
> :eek8:
> 
> Part of that, I'm sure, is Duffy just fishing for an offer, but it's also not exactly what I want to hear at this point either.


Gee, maybe Duhon is looking for more than 3 years & $6M.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

Don't let a Florida Today article worry you too much, John Denton is a joke among Orlando area journalists.

I have read stuff that he wrote that I know 100% was made up (he was reporting something that was allegedly written in a still-unreleased magazine article that I was holding in my hand).

But I'm sure you're right about Duffy fishing for an offer, that's his job.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

That's his job to try and get Duhon more money. Can't blame him for trying. More money for Chris, the more for him.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

bullsville said:


> Don't let a Florida Today article worry you too much, John Denton is a joke among Orlando area journalists..


It's Duffy's quote that is the concern, not Denton's article. 

So unless you think that Denton is fabricating the quote.....


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

bullsville said:


> Don't let a Florida Today article worry you too much, *John Denton is a joke among Orlando area journalists.
> 
> I have read stuff that he wrote that I know 100% was made up *


*

Sam Smith has a twin?*





I hope the Duhon deal gets done soon. I know its Duffy's job to get him the best deal he can, in Chicago or elsewhere, but its this kind of posturing and public soapboxing from Duhon and Curry's agents that makes it hard to blame the Bulls as the reason their FA's aren't "tied up" in new deals already. I respect Tyson's camp for keeping relatively low key.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

johnston797 said:


> It's Duffy's quote that is the concern, not Denton's article.
> 
> So unless you think that Denton is fabricating the quote.....


Sorry, I should have made it clearer that I do not think Denton made up the quote- although I have seen him make up "facts" before, I believe that Duffy said what he said (which was why I said "I'm sure you're right about Duffy fishing for an offer").

I was just pointing out that Denton has proven beyond a doubt that he is about as believable as Petey Vescey, so I will always take anything he writes with a grain of salt.

The incident I am referring to happened sometime in the Summer or early Fall of 2003- TMac had done an interview for Slam (I think) Magazine, and the author had faxed us (at the radio station) a copy of the article a few weeks before the magazine was published. Denton wrote that TMac had said something he didn't say, although he didn't "quote" him directly, what he said was completely untrue.

EDIT: Sorry, it was in 'Stuff' magazine, here's the column I wrote right after we got the article:

Maybe this one should be called "The NBA According to T-Mac". 

In the November issue of "Stuff" Magazine, Orlando Magic superstar Tracy McGrady tells writer Bill Schulz that 5% of the players in the NBA are gay. 

Not that there's anything wrong with that... 

That was just one of the surprises that TMac has for Stuff readers. On the subject of marijuana, he says that while he doesn't smoke it, he knows of other players who "smoke and then still go out and drop 30". 

He also adds that while he is very happy with the Magic's addition of free agent Juwan Howard over the summer, he adds that it "is crazy" that the Magic front office didn't discuss it with him in advance. In McGrady's eyes, since he is the key guy for the Magic, the team should "involve me in everything". 

I definitely recommend to all of you that you grab the November issue of "Stuff", if for no other reason than to check out the rest of the McGrady interview. It's undoubtedly one of the most honest you'll ever read with an NBA player. 

While I'm sure many media sources will run with the "5%" comment, my follow-up question for TMac would be "are you happy with the Magic"? He went out of his way to say that he should be involved in all transactions while endorsing the deal itself. Add this to the conflicting stories surrounding TMac's back injury during the Olympic Qualifying Tournament last month, and it seems as if there may be some trouble brewing in the land of Magic. 

McGrady had many nice things to say about Magic Coach Doc Rivers and teammate Grant Hill, but you know that not getting out of the first round of the playoffs has to be gettting to TMac. His comments also imply that he doesn't agree with all of the moves Magic GM John Gabriel has made over the past few years. McGrady's best friend on the team, Mike Miller, was traded last season, and he expressed his displeasure at the time. 

TMac can opt out of his contract and become a free agent in the summer of 2005- does that mean that Rivers and Gabriel are on the hot seat this season? 


http://www.insidehoops.com/ellis-091503.shtml


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

That same article has this tidbit in it also...




> *Smith said the trap is to overpay free agents, something he doesn't feel pressure to do.*
> 
> "We had 11 new guys last year and I still want to take what we have and give them time to gel," Smith said. "Our new coaching staff is convinced that we don't have to make a lot of changes because the parts are here.
> 
> "I'm not going to make changes just for the sake of change. I know people are expecting us to do that because we were 36-46, but I don't believe in doing that. I like our team."


I like Chris Duhon and all, but the inference from this article is that if the Magic want to "steal" Duhon from the Bulls, they'll offer the full MLE for him like they "stole" Hedo from San Antonio last season. Yet, you also have Otis Smith quoted as saying the Magic don't feel any pressure to overpay for free agents. Giving the MLE to Duhon, in my opinion, would be overpaying. Kudos to Duhon if he can get the MLE because he'll then be the highest paid player from his draft class. Not too shabby for a second round pick who wasn't even supposed to make the team.

All in all, the article doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Duffy's claim that Duhon could make Francis better by taking the ball out of his hands seems wrong. Francis is most effective with the ball, not without it.

Anywho... If the Magic offer up the full MLE for Duhon, I suppose we'll be seeing him in the White and Blue of the Magic this season 'cause I can't see Pax/Reinsdorf matching that kind of offer...


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

With Orlando, hopefully Travis Dierner's reported good play in Summer League makes Duhon a less likely target.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

fl_flash said:


> All in all, the article doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Duffy's claim that Duhon could make Francis better by taking the ball out of his hands seems wrong. Francis is most effective with the ball, not without it.
> 
> Anywho... If the Magic offer up the full MLE for Duhon, I suppose we'll be seeing him in the White and Blue of the Magic this season 'cause I can't see Pax/Reinsdorf matching that kind of offer...


Even though he's an godforsaken, blood-sucking agent, Duffy's comments about his client are pretty truthful in this instance.

I think Duhon would be an ideal foil for Francis, and that the only way you can salvage Francis's career and maximize his abilities is to play him off the ball. He turns it over way too much to be a point. Duhon takes great care of the ball and doesn't need shots -- the perfect backcourt mate for a volume scorer like Francis. And Francis's defense against twos is better than it is against ones, so there's another advantage.

I think the Magic look at Duhon-Francis as similar to Iverson-Snow, or even Hinrich-Duhon. Chris really fits their situation well, so if they view the landscape and don't think a bigger star falls through the cracks, I wouldn't be surprised to see them give Duhon most of their MLE or all of it.


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## mr.ankle20 (Mar 7, 2004)

why are we signing chris duhon before curry, chandler


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> Even though he's an godforsaken, blood-sucking agent, Duffy's comments about his client are pretty truthful in this instance.
> 
> I think Duhon would be an ideal foil for Francis, and that the only way you can salvage Francis's career and maximize his abilities is to play him off the ball. He turns it over way too much to be a point. Duhon takes great care of the ball and doesn't need shots -- the perfect backcourt mate for a volume scorer like Francis. And Francis's defense against twos is better than it is against ones, so there's another advantage.
> 
> I think the Magic look at Duhon-Francis as similar to Iverson-Snow, or even Hinrich-Duhon. Chris really fits their situation well, so if they view the landscape and don't think a bigger star falls through the cracks, I wouldn't be surprised to see them give Duhon most of their MLE or all of it.


It's possible. The problem I see is that with the ball out of Francis' hands, how effective is he? In all his time in the league, he's always been a primary ball handler and distributor. How's Stevie gonna react when Duhon, being the very good point-guard that he is, is feeding the ball into Dwight Howard in the post because he's gotten terrific position and Howard is a damn good player. Is Stevie going to like Duhon kicking out a pass to a wide-open Hedo when he feels he could have taken the shot? I can't say.

I'm pretty sure Jeff Van Gundy tried to take the ball out of Stevies hands and it didn't work all that well. I just get the impression that Francis wants and needs the ball in his hands to be effective. Anything short of that and he starts to lose interest in the game.

Time will tell. Hopefully the Bulls get a deal done and all this just becomes interesting speculation.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

mr.ankle20 said:


> why are we signing chris duhon before curry, chandler


Because Duhon's contract will come from the MLE, and that impacts our ability to sign other free agents this summer. Chandler and Curry can be signed to whatever amount and it has no impact on the MLE or LLE.


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## mr.ankle20 (Mar 7, 2004)

why are we signing chris duhon with the mle money ? this guy has really has not improve at all since his days at duke, he's a liability on offense , a decent defender . and he will give few assist. If the bulls wanted to save some money they could sign aaron miles. Since he has the same strengths and Flaws like chris duhon has


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

mr.ankle20 said:


> why are we signing chris duhon with the mle money ? this guy has really has not improve at all since his days at duke, he's a liability on offense , a decent defender . and he will give few assist. If the bulls wanted to save some money they could sign aaron miles. Since he has the same strengths and Flaws like chris duhon has


Aaron Miles to replace Duhon is just like some posters last year that wanted to trade Chandler to get Petro. These may look like similar players but far from guarenteed. Petro is really struggling in summer league. Is Miles even hooked up with a team.

The only leverage Pax had\has is targeting a real live NBA player which the MLE could be used on - Antonio Daniels, Earl Watson. Or he just has to wait it out. Or increase his offer.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

johnston797 said:


> Aaron Miles to replace Duhon is just like some posters last year that wanted to trade Chandler to get Petro. These may look like similar players but far from guarenteed. Petro is really struggling in summer league. Is Miles even hooked up with a team.
> 
> *The only leverage Pax had\has is targeting a real live NBA player which the MLE could be used on* - Antonio Daniels, Earl Watson. Or he just has to wait it out. Or increase his offer.


I think we could replace Duhon with Tyronne Lue for the LLE and not really lose much. Lue is a scrapper much like Duhon but is much better offensively. In some ways I think he would be an even better fit.


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## Showtyme (Jun 24, 2002)

SALO said:


> I think we could replace Duhon with Tyronne Lue for the LLE and not really lose much. Lue is a scrapper much like Duhon but is much better offensively. In some ways I think he would be an even better fit.


I think any team that's looking to throw money at Duhon would be looking to throw the same money at Lue. Lue had a very decent year after coming to Atlanta, and teams noticed that he can somewhat run an offense, his scoring ability is more diverse and improved (although he was always sort of a scorer), and his defensive intensity remains fairly high. In short, he's like a mix between the best of Pargo and the best of Duhon. He'll demand more than the LLE, if Duhon is.


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

*Duhon's Agent Looking to Stick It To Chicago*

"Everybody thinks Chicago is going to automatically match, but they have some major issues with Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler," said Duffy, who negotiated with Orlando's Smith on two occasions Thursday. *"I really think we can sneak one by them if Orlando works with us. If Orlando steps up, I want to do everything in my power to reward them for that."*

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050722/SPORTS/507220333/1002

So, Duffy wants to sneak one by the Bulls and will reward Orlando if they can help him pull it off. What a class guy. Someone remind him of how Paxson treated his client, Jay Williams.

I think its time Duhon got involved in his own negotiations with the Bulls so he can be certain his wishes are being properly represented. BTW, wasn't Duffy the agent who failed to file one of his players options on time and cost the guy more than $3 million?


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## southpark (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: Duhon's Agent Looking to Stick It To Chicago*

really now cmon kismet, I would think you would take the time to browse the forums....this has already been posted here:

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=185621&page=1&pp=15


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: Duhon's Agent Looking to Stick It To Chicago*

:laugh:

Yeah, I'm sure Duffy's got Duhon stashed away somewhere -- I'm thinking a brick-lined, "Silence of the Lambs"-style pit -- and none of this is Chris's doing.

And several posters have astutely pointed out that the Bulls benefited from buying out Jay just as much as Jay did. Duffy isn't leaving a quid pro quo unfulfilled by not agreeing to sign up Duhon for peanuts.

Yao Ming, Antonio Davis, Ray Felton, Hakim Warrick, Steve Nash, Tayshaun Prince, Carmelo Anthony -- all these guys feel comfortable with letting Duffy make sure their wishes are "properly represented." 

And the player who Duffy cost 4 million by not filing his option? Anthony Carter -- still a Duffy client (Duffy agreed to pay him back every cent that he lost).

Once again I'm dumbstruck by people's reactions when players have the "gall" to want a fair payday, and how easily people's backs get up when a player exercises his perfectly appropriate right to have representation.

Sheesh. I think some of you would like to see the Bulls negotiate their contracts in a Turkish prison. We could get some real bargains that way!


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## Kismet (Mar 1, 2003)

*Re: Duhon's Agent Looking to Stick It To Chicago*



southpark said:


> really now cmon kismet, I would think you would take the time to browse the forums....this has already been posted here:
> 
> http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=185621&page=1&pp=15


You're right...it was covered and I just flat out missed it. My Apologies. Please merge this with the other thread, or make it evaporate alltogether, mods. Thanks.


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## Shabadoo (Feb 12, 2005)

*Re: Duhon's Agent Looking to Stick It To Chicago*



ScottMay said:


> :laugh:
> 
> Yeah, I'm sure Duffy's got Duhon stashed away somewhere -- I'm thinking a brick-lined, "Silence of the Lambs"-style pit -- and none of this is Chris's doing.
> 
> ...



Good Post. I always found the contrast between the general public's perception of such events, and the opinions of folks on this board quite intriguing. It seems as though most people would root for a young blood to get his pay day, whereas the more knowledgable folks here always look for the better deal. I guess though, ultimately, the conservative folks are more concerned with fiscal responsibility and long(er) term flexibility than they are with an extra ivory back-scratcher or two for the owners.

I agree with you though that this type of activity was to be expected. While I guess in a fair and altruistic world Duhon would owe the Bulls something for "having faith" in him by drafting him in the 2nd round and entrusting him with a starting job. In reality though, materialism reigns and the price mechanism talks. Especially for lower salary scale players, the marginal value of every dollar is very high. His agent is doing exactly what he is supposed to do here to secure his client's welfare.


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## SALO (Jun 6, 2002)

Duhon rejected the LLE, and visited Orlando in hopes of a better offer. Orlando chose to sign Dooling instead... 

Now we hear Duhon is going to be signed by the Bulls very soon. If you're Paxson, do you "give in" and use part of the MLE, even when it seems nobody else has even offered Duhon anything bigger than the LLE? Why should Pax increase his original offer when Duhon didn't even come back with a better offer from someone else?

If I were Paxson here, I'd be tempted to simply make the LLE a take it or leave it offer, preserve the full MLE, and see who becomes available with the amnesty cuts.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

johnston797 said:


> It's Duffy's quote that is the concern, not Denton's article.
> 
> So unless you think that Denton is fabricating the quote.....


I did a little searching, and I found the "fact" that Denton made up. It wasn't a direct quote, but he claimed that TMac said something that he clearly did not say.

(Sorry to link to a post I made on a different board)

Link 

---------------------

One more thing... 

If any of you saw John Denton's article in Saturday's Florida Today (here's the link) 

http://www.floridatoday.com/!NEWSROOM/sportstoryA12477A.htm *(this link is no longer there, look for the Sat, Sept 13, 2003 edition of Florida Today)* 

Denton writes the following... 
"including McGrady's claims that he once played alongside a homosexual teammate in Orlando." 

That is a flat out lie, Tracy NEVER said any such thing in the Stuff Magazine interview. The entire "homosexual" line of questioning was only two questions- (from page 107) 

SM- Here's a pertinet question. How many homosexuals are currently playing in the NBA? 

TMac- I think about five percent. 

SM- Wow. That a huge amount for such a macho profession. Have you observed any specific incidents that allow you to make that statement? 

TMac [Looks at the floor]- Yeah. 

Page 108 starts with a question about when Ho Grant questioned TMac's effort. 

Now I'm certainly not naive enough to believe everything I read, but I can't believe that Denton would just out-and-out fabricate something that will be proven to be completely false once the November issue of Stuff Magazine hits the newsstands. So much for journalistic integrity...

---------------

The sad thing is, I found out not long afterwards that TMac did in fact have a gay teammate in Orlando (I'm not naming names publicly, that's just wrong), but he never mentioned it in the 'Stuff' article as Denton claimed he did. I'm sure Denton knows who it was, and he didn't want to break his own 'professional credibility' by making the claim himself.

The really sad thing is that Denton made up a 'quote' from TMac, knowing that most of the people who read his column would never buy 'Stuff' magazine to read the actual interview with TMac. But that's apparently where journalism has sunk to in this country.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

bullsville said:


> But that's apparently where journalism has sunk to in this country.


I don't know if it's the influence of talk radio, the cable shows, the screamer columnists, or what, but yeah, the "journalism" aspect of "sports journalism" is played extremely fast and loose these days.

Even McGraw, who normally does a decent job, committed a pretty big blunder in his column on Eddy's visit to Atlanta. McGraw was writing the column from his office in Arlington Heights or whatever, yet he referred to a smile on Eddy's face and other stuff that he couldn't possibly have seen. I'm guessing he was referring to coverage he saw on TV, but if so, he had to attribute it. A writer for a sixth-grade newspaper would know better.

Basically, the only sports sections I can read without somewhat of a jaundiced eye are the Washington Post's, the Boston Globe's, and the New York Times's (their sport section has come a long, long way in the last 3-4 years). Those papers' beat writers, in particular, write the way beat writers should. They're not constantly on the attack, like the folks at the NY Post, yet they're not mindlessly advancing the agenda of the team they cover for fear of upsetting their sources.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

bullsville said:


> I did a little searching, and I found the "fact" that Denton made up. It wasn't a direct quote, but he claimed that TMac said something that he clearly did not say.
> 
> (Sorry to link to a post I made on a different board)
> 
> ...


I'm a little confused. Was Denton saying something like "McGrady said lots of things in an upcoming STUFF interview... "including McGrady's claims that he once played alongside a homosexual teammate in Orlando." 

Because, since the Denton quote doesn't alude to STUFF, I can't really make heads or tails of it. Just because TMAC didn't say it in the STUFF interview doesn't mean he never said it.

Not saying it couldn't have been fabricated, just saying I can't conclude that from what you've quoted.

Also, if this article was written in September and STUFF not published until November (probably reaching stands in October?), how could it be the source? I think the only way would be if Denton had access to the full interview transcript, which of course, would have been edited for the final print copy.

That is, the raw interview could have contained the claim of a gay teammate, and Stuff could have decided (very rightly) that this statement took thinks a bit too far. Or TMac could have said he didn't want that to go in the story, with STUFF ageeing and Denton never bothering to ask.

That would all make Denton a pretty slimy guy, or at the very least quite stupid to write about something off the record like that, but not a liar.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

ScottMay said:


> Basically, the only sports sections I can read without somewhat of a jaundiced eye are the Washington Post's, the Boston Globe's, and the New York Times's (their sport section has come a long, long way in the last 3-4 years). Those papers' beat writers, in particular, write the way beat writers should. They're not constantly on the attack, like the folks at the NY Post, yet they're not mindlessly advancing the agenda of the team they cover for fear of upsetting their sources.


Just as a local, I agree on WaPo's beat writers, but I wouldn't call Kornheiser, Wilbon, or (ugh) Sally Jenkins agenda free. At best, they often have contradictory agendas, which sort of cancel each other out.

* Wilbon wouldn't say anything to upset MJ (something Kornheiser is continuously slamming him for on the radio). :rotf: 

* Kornheiser will never say anything good about Ted Leonis for some reason.

* Sally Jenkins' is Skip Bayless but with the redeeming quality that she was never taken seriously to start with 

(By the way, anyone notice that with the way Skip is headed, he's going to be writing a sports column for the Burkina Faso Tribune by the time it's all over. Talk about guy flushing his credibility in the ****ter).


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

Duhon, and every other player on the Bulls and every player on every other team, should try to get as much $$ as they can. No doubt about it. Conversely, the GM should try to get the best deal he can for the flexibility of his team. 

Not rocket science. Frankly, I don't see a lot of people suggesting that the system should work any other way.

Agents need to advocate for their players publicly and privately. Also not rocket science. But it can be done inappropriately at times. I think Duffy used some poor words by talking about "sneaking one" past the Bulls, given that in all likelihood Chicago is where Duhon will be playing next season. 

All in all, though, it doesn't really mean anything either way. He's just trying to convince Orlando that Chicago might not match a big offer so they should pony-up if they really want Du. 

P.S. - Steve Francis should play shooting guard, and I think that is exactly what is about ready to happen in Orlando. Francis is more effective *for himself* when he has the ball, but not for the team. He is a poor decision maker as a point guard. I do think, however, that he can be an excellent shooting guard if he can accept the transition and not be a little ***** about it (a serious risk with him).


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> Duhon, and every other player on the Bulls and every player on every other team, should try to get as much $$ as they can. No doubt about it. Conversely, the GM should try to get the best deal he can for the flexibility of his team.
> 
> Not rocket science. Frankly, I don't see a lot of people suggesting that the system should work any other way.


"Will duhon take one for the team?"

(Not a lot of people, but it has been suggested)


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> "Will duhon take one for the team?"
> 
> (Not a lot of people, but it has been suggested)


I hadn't read the thread, so I just went through it. I might have missed it, but it seemd to me that Kismit posed the question, didn't really take a position one way or another, and virtually everyone said that Duhon should do what is best for him without condemning him for it in the least. 

So, I can't really agree with you on that one. 

I guess all I'm saying is that I don't see posters condemning our free agents for trying to get what they can. What I do see is people accepting Paxson's strategy in also trying to get those free agents for the best deal he can get. The former is being confused with the latter by some.

It all seems very simple to me. Yet the process has led to much heated debate. Frankly, I don't understand it.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> I hadn't read the thread, so I just went through it. I might have missed it, but it seemd to me that Kismit posed the question, didn't really take a position one way or another, and virtually everyone said that Duhon should do what is best for him without condemning him for it in the least.
> 
> So, I can't really agree with you on that one.
> 
> ...


What kind of "team player" are you if you don't "take one for the team?"

It's pretty blatant.

RFA is stacked against the players. The question is whether GMs take advantage of that, or whether they attempt to make nice to their RFAs to make people generally happy.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> *What kind of "team player" are you if you don't "take one for the team?"
> 
> It's pretty blatant.*
> 
> RFA is stacked against the players. The question is whether GMs take advantage of that, or whether they attempt to make nice to their RFAs to make people generally happy.


What post(s) are you referring to? Its possible I missed it/them. 

Yes RFA is stacked against the players. Yes, GMs take advantage of that. If they are worth a damn, GMs also balance that advantage with respect and player contentment. Again, pretty obvious stuff. 

But really, I am curious about which posts you are referring to so that I can go back and re-read them. If people are condemning Duhon for seeking to maximize his income, then I would disagree with those folks.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> What post(s) are you referring to? Its possible I missed it/them.
> 
> Yes RFA is stacked against the players. Yes, GMs take advantage of that. If they are worth a damn, GMs also balance that advantage with respect and player contentment. Again, pretty obvious stuff.
> 
> But really, I am curious about which posts you are referring to so that I can go back and re-read them. If people are condemning Duhon for seeking to maximize his income, then I would disagree with those folks.


The first post, AND THE TITLE of the thread. It's still possible you'll miss it, I suppose.

Guys who'll "take one for the team" are guys like Malone, Payton, and maybe Finley (who knows, he's still a Mav). Those guys already got their mega$millions and were in a position to play for free if they wanted to.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> The first post, AND THE TITLE of the thread. It's still possible you'll miss it, I suppose.
> 
> Guys who'll "take one for the team" are guys like Malone, Payton, and maybe Finley (who knows, he's still a Mav). Those guys already got their mega$millions and were in a position to play for free if they wanted to.


You mean Kismet's post that concludes with this . . .



> Tough decisions all around. Only time will tell how it all works out...and hopefully CD will remain in the mix for the Bulls for the long haul either way.


. . . and takes no position whatsoever as to what Duhon *should* do?

And by "Title of the the thread" I assume you mean "Will Duhon 'Take One For The Team?" Seems to me that this title generically poses a question as to what Duhon *WILL DO*, rather than taking a position as to what Duhon *SHOULD DO*.

Maybe you should highlight the exact words used by Kismet that you are relying on, and then maybe I'll understand. Because right now I don't. 










Will DaBullz enroll?

I'm not saying you SHOULD, I'm just posing the question of whether or not you WILL. See the difference?


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> You mean Kismet's post that concludes with this . . .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Exactly whose idea is it that in doing (something) would be "taking one for the team?"



> Maybe you should highlight the exact words used by Kismet that you are relying on, and then maybe I'll understand. Because right now I don't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you argued my case with this last bit perfectly. I don't know what you were actually trying to acomplish, but you made my point for me.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Woop de dooo Bazel. 

This should have been done way earlier. Duhon is such a minute piece right now with all the major offseason improvements by our rivals signing Duhon is no big deal at all. 

We MUST sign Chandler and Curry back or be prepared for a flashback to the early 2000's.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> Exactly whose idea is it that in doing (something) would be "taking one for the team?"
> 
> 
> 
> I think you argued my case with this last bit perfectly. I don't know what you were actually trying to acomplish, but you made my point for me.


Sure I did. :laugh: 

No one advocated that Duhon not take the $$. Not even Kismet. Fact.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> Sure I did. :laugh:
> 
> No one advocated that Duhon not take the $$. Not even Kismet. Fact.


Yeah, you did. You made a suggestion, albeit some sort of backhanded insult, that somehow I need to learn to read. Kismet made a suggestion, perhaps some sort of backhanded insult (to Duhon) that he should take one for the team; the suggestion that he's NOT a team player if he doesn't.

It's an OLD OLD trick. Like saying "I didn't mean to imply you beat up your mother." (it does imply you beat up your mother, now, doesn't it?)

This isn't about Kismet, though. He's a fine fellow and a good/knowledgable poster. It's about this ONE thread he started.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> Yeah, you did. You made a suggestion, albeit some sort of backhanded insult, that somehow I need to learn to read. *Kismet made a suggestion, perhaps some sort of backhanded insult (to Duhon) that he should take one for the team; the suggestion that he's NOT a team player if he doesn't.*
> 
> It's an OLD OLD trick. Like saying "I didn't mean to imply you beat up your mother." (it does imply you beat up your mother, now, doesn't it?)
> 
> This isn't about Kismet, though. He's a fine fellow and a good/knowledgable poster. It's about this ONE thread he started.


I don't see how you can glean that from what he wrote. We all know that if Duhon took an LLE deal that it would help the team. Kismet knows it. You know it. I know it. Duhon knows it. 

Kismet was posing the question of whether or not Duhon WOULD do it, not whether he SHOULD do it. And every single respone that followed was that Duhon should get his while he can, which is an opinion I agree with.

In other words, the theory that there are Bulls fans in here who hold it against the Bulls players who try to maximize their value is a myth. Thats why I've said I've never seen anyone suggest otherwise. And I still haven't. 

Maybe Kismet will read this at some point and chime in. Because right now its just you and me bickering like a couple of school yard kids.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

How about we have a thread "Will Paxson give up some cash for the team?"

But I'm not suggesting he should. Riiiiiight.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

DaBullz said:


> How about we have a thread "Will Paxson give up some cash for the team?"
> 
> But I'm not suggesting he should. Riiiiiight.


Thats exactly right. It depends on the post that follows. Nowhere in Kismet's post does he suggest that Duhon just settle for the LLE. Nowhere. Nor does any other post in the entire thread.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> It seems that by accepting the LLE, for let's say, 2 years Duhon would be receiving close to what he'd get in years 1 and 2 of the 3 year, $6 million dollar contract he's seeking. It also allows the Bulls to retain his 'Early Bird Rights' for application in year three.
> 
> There is a significant risk involved for Duhon: He could blow out a knee for example and find himself without a contract at all after his LLE contract expires. The benefits of signing under the 'Early Bird' guidelines in year 3 however, are worth considering. Using this exception, the Bulls could re-sign Chris Duhon for 175% of his salary the previous season or the average player salary, whichever is greater. And that would make his total compensation over the next three seasons greater than $6 million.
> 
> ...


It seems like by making good offers to our RFAs, Paxson can get rid of the notion that he's a hardball negotiator, that he disprespects the players for their contributions, create good will and a good atmosphere for the sake of the team, and can lock up some of those lotto draft picks we stand to lose.

There is significant risk to Paxson. Next time he's in an RFA situation, the players will expect him to be a nice guy instead of a jerk. Maybe he'll somehow get taken advantage of.

Of course, any player he signs to a fair contract could blow out a knee and never get a good deal again or play for the team again.

The benefits of bird rights to the players now RFAs are that he can sign them to bigger deals than anyone else can offer.

Under this scenario, Paxson shoulders most of the risk. Obviously, the players can't promise they'll be injury free or even be able to perform under Skiles' coaching system somepoint down the road, or for a new coach, should one be hired.

By holding out for the lowest low-ball contract he can get these guys for, there's also a chance that the players will just sign the QO and walk for nothing.

The big benefit to Chicago is obvious. Happy players are likely to produce on the court better than unhappy ones. With their future assured, they'll not have to look over their shoulders, wondering what NBDL or undrafted player is going to be signed to take their place.

Any deals he signs Curry and Chandler to assures that our front line won't be so vulnerable.

Tough decisions all around. Only time will tell how it all works out, though we can see the seeds of discontentment reported in various news sources already. Hopefully he'll end up signing these guys for something other than the QO so we don't lose them for nothing.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

But I'm not suggesting Pax give up something for the team.


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## Ron Cey (Dec 27, 2004)

Oh, yeah. Those are just the same.  "Jerk" and "seeds of discontentment". 

I bet it took you a while to write it though. Kudos.


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

Ron Cey said:


> I don't see how you can glean that from what he wrote. We all know that if Duhon took an LLE deal that it would help the team. Kismet knows it. You know it. I know it. Duhon knows it.
> 
> Kismet was posing the question of whether or not Duhon WOULD do it, not whether he SHOULD do it.


OK, but Kismet's no meathead. And to drain any implication of what should be done out of the post seems to make Kismet sound pretty meatheaded to me.

I mean, as you pointed out yourself, we can and should expect both sides in the negotiation to drive the best deal they can. A point that's so common sense that questioning it... questioning whether a side WOULD break that common sense proposition... is pretty much coequal to saying they SHOULD do it.

I mean, we could overrun the board with threads asking whether Tyson and Eddy _would_ re-sign six year deals for the league minimum, but they'd be pretty meatheaded, wouldn't they? And they'd inevitably revolve around reasons they _should_ do this - at least, reasons from the Bulls' organizational perspective.

The other part of the issue that's being left out seems to be Kismet's disagreement (at least as I see it) with your assertion that statements like Duffy's are to be expected, even if poorly worded. Kismet, on the other hand, seemed to take exception to those statements, and brought up the way the Bulls treated another of his clients (JWill).

Let me ask this, what bearing should the Bulls' disposition of the JWill situation have on the disposition of the Duhon situation? Should the former have any effect on Duffy's effort to drive the best deal possible for Duhon?

Under your (and my) position, I don't see how it's even a topic of conversation. 

Yet, there Kismet is bringing it up.

If you don't see any implication that the Bulls' treatment of Duffy client JWill _should_ have some truck with what Duffy says to get the best deal for his client Duhon, then I think you're being pretty thick. There's the theory of everyone driving the best deal possible and all these relationships not mattering in cash negotiations, and then there's the reality. The reality of things there seems to be a lot of non-cash "you owe me" style accounting that plays into things.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

Mikedc said:


> OK, but Kismet's no meathead. And to drain any implication of what should be done out of the post seems to make Kismet sound pretty meatheaded to me.
> 
> I mean, as you pointed out yourself, we can and should expect both sides in the negotiation to drive the best deal they can. A point that's so common sense that questioning it... questioning whether a side WOULD break that common sense proposition... is pretty much coequal to saying they SHOULD do it.
> 
> ...


I like to think of it as "what goes around comes around." If Paxson is seen as a good guy by the players, once in a while he could actually pull a favor and ask a guy to take a cut "for the team."

Jordan didn't take a cut in his $30M salary so the Bulls could retain any particular player. Sometimes it's an ego thing for the players. That is how it is. The best want to be paid like the best. Sometimes they want to get what's coming to them, for what they've contributed all along but weren't paid for (fully).

I mean, didn't we live through Krause getting the bad rep, and then with all the cap space he generated by cutting loose all the actual NBA players on the roster, he couldn't convince a single guy to take the max cash deals he was offering. It wasn't about the money, then, was it? It isn't _just_ about the money now, either.

(And yeah, Kismet's no meathead... he's incredibly smart)


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

I disagree..... 

*Kismet!* IS a meathead!


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)




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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

^^^
Disturbing image.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Mikedc said:


> OK, but Kismet's no meathead.












Stiiiifle it, Kismet!


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

Goodbye to the dreams of Jay Williams


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

Latest on Du: Playing cards wih his HS coach, expecting to be signed somewhere by the end of the week.

http://www.slidellsentry.com/articles/2005/07/26/news/sports/sports01.txt



> Chris Duhon wouldn't be in the NBA without his high school coach, Salmen's Jay Carlin. And Carlin wouldn't have an extra $2 in his pocket without Duhon.
> 
> "I used to tell them in high school," explained Carlin with a smile, "that I can't take your money (playing cards) until you get out of high school.
> 
> ...


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

The contradictory reports are getting outrageous. First Duhon is looking for $2M per year...then he supposedly gets offered $4M per year, and now he's seeking $3M per year. It's very hard to be patient when it comes to contract negotiations, especially for the fans.


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