# JJ Redick v. Kirk Hinrich



## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

Suppose Redick were to stay at Duke until his eligibility were up and Ben Gordon were to become the all-around player many of us think he could be. Would you part with Kirk Hinrich for Redick plus goodies? Maybe Redick and a younger, cheaper, but equally hard-nosed version of AD, plus possibly a first rounder? 

Would you think about it? Would it at least merit consideration?

BTW I don't want to trade Hinrich....I'm merely gauging two things: 1. What is Hinrich's value, 2. How highly do Hinrich fans regard J.J. Redick?


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

No. If Gordon becomes a great all around player, I'm not opposed to dealing Hinrich, but not for Reddick. Gordon needs to play shooting guard but defend point guards, which means we need a point guard who can guard shooting guards. Hinrich is a guy who can do that. Something tells me that finding someone better than Hinrich, with more point guard skills, who can also guard shooting guards as well as Hinrich, will be extremely difficult. However, if it can be done, do it.


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## Yyzlin (Feb 2, 2003)

Of course not. You don't trade someone who starts for someone who doesn't have the skills to play 30+ minutes a game. Redick will definitely have value for many teams because of his shooting skills, but the defiencies in other areas of his game hamper him.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

This is a joke right ?

Oh Vega !

Come out come out wherever you are


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## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Yyzlin</b>!
> Of course not. You don't trade someone who starts for someone who doesn't have the skills to play 30+ minutes a game. Redick will definitely have value for many teams because of his shooting skills, but the defiencies in other areas of his game hamper him.


Remember....I left the trade open. I didn't say Redick for Hinrich straight up. I said....what would it take?

Redick
Brian Skinner
1st rounder

Redick
Pietrus
1st rounder?

More? Less? Something else?

Also what do you think of him as a player.....


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## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

What's so hilarious about the responses here is.... this is the INSTANT reaction you get when you suggest that there might be SOMETHING or SOME combination of a guy like Redick, maybe a guy like Pietrus, maybe a 1st rounder, maybe even MORE THAN THAT.....that might actually be equal or better than Kirk Hinrich. 

But then why am I so amazed? This is the board where, when discussing whether or not we could get Kobe in a trade that was offered as a hypothetical where we would RIP LA OFF, the reaction from one person was "I don't like the way this trade would affect Kirk."

LOL would some of you even trade Kirk for Michael Jordan? Cause seriously his *** was never licked this hard in Chicago. I'm serious. Kirk Hinrich is really received by the blue collar community in Chicago with GREATER passion and enthusiasm than MICHAEL JORDAN was. MJ.....the king, the best ever. I'm not kidding......

But then Eddy Curry is offered in some of the stupidest trades ever where it's not even open ended like "would it take more than this to get you to trade Curry"......and his fans are tarred and feathered if they so much as wonder why the F the trade's protagonist is being so stupid.

Mind boggling....


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

I'd trade Hinrich in a heartbeat for 10-20 players in a heartbeat, and several others I would also end up doing after some thought. 

It's just you can't offer up lobsided trades that rip us off, then accuse us of being stuck on Hinrich for shooting down the trade. If there was a bunch of threads about trading Eddy Curry for Channing Frye, I would instantly look like I was the biggest Eddy Curry fan because I'd shoot those trade ideas down equally as fast.


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## Machinehead (Jun 12, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> What's so hilarious about the responses here is.... this is the INSTANT reaction you get when you suggest that there might be SOMETHING or SOME combination of a guy like Redick, maybe a guy like Pietrus, maybe a 1st rounder, maybe even MORE THAN THAT.....that might actually be equal or better than Kirk Hinrich.
> 
> But then why am I so amazed? This is the board where, when discussing whether or not we could get Kobe in a trade that was offered as a hypothetical where we would RIP LA OFF, the reaction from one person was "I don't like the way this trade would affect Kirk."
> ...


What I find mind boggling is the notion of needing to trade Kirk in a package to get JJ Reddick when if we live in a logical basketball universe he will be available as a late first round pick where we will be picking when he comes due or as a 2nd round pick 

Why ditch Kirk in a package designed to get JJ Reddick plus + + 

Why not just consider Kirk for the plus plus part if Pietrus ( or whoever ) was a logical swap ( if that's what you thought )


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## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Machinehead</b>!
> 
> 
> What I find mind boggling is the notion of needing to trade Kirk in a package to get JJ Reddick when if we live in a logical basketball universe he will be available as a late first round pick where we will be picking when he comes due or as a 2nd round pick
> ...


I want Giddens there in 2006, and who says Redick doesn't just declare this year? Of course if you assume into the equation that we will be in position to draft Redick that is fine, but I was merely asking. Would you do Hinrich for Redick plus replacement for AD or Pike, plus a first rounder. Then use our original first rounder for the replacement we DID NOT get out of the trade. I.E. if it was Hinrich for Redick, Skinner and a first rounder then we'd draft Pike's replacement. If it was Redick, Pietrus and first rounder then we'd draft AD's replacement. 

Also Patch....I AM the biggest Eddy fan. If someone offered Channing Frye, Mickael Pietrus, Andris Biedrins and two first rounders I might have to sniff it....


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

I think Hinrich is going to be a better player than Ben Gordon down the line. Scoring isn't everything. I see Kirk as being a mix of Gary Payton and Steve Nash. I lock him in as the point guard for the next 15 years.

I'm still not exactly sure what to do with Ben long term.


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## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> I think Hinrich is going to be a better player than Ben Gordon down the line. Scoring isn't everything. I see Kirk as being a mix of Gary Payton and Steve Nash. I lock him in as the point guard for the next 15 years.
> 
> I'm still not exactly sure what to do with Ben long term.


I'm out to do what's best for the BULLS, and not necessarily to trade Hinrich. If Gordon proved to have too many weaknesses to start for us at the one, but still looked very good, would you trade HIM for Redick and a fat package of goodies?


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

JJ looks like a 2nd rounder at this point .

would anyone trade kirk for a 2nd rounder and goodies?

i am thinking :no:


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

what are goodies (drakes coffe cake perhaps?) 

I do agree with the gipper on one point people here way overrate kirk , but his value is much higher than reddick , and i happen to be a fan of reddick , if JJ becomes the next hoiberg , i'd be pretty happy with that(decent 10 year vet.) , but as it goes now i'd say a poor man's kareem rush and his nba career is in serious jeopardy as far as long term prospects , he doesn't look to have a dominant skill outside of shooting , so i am a lil iffy on his prospects to honest with you.

kirk at least was a pg , defender as well as a shooter plus he was a better athlete than reddick, there is alot for JJ to overcome. he's a small 2 , i dont know how good i'd consider his defense or his general toughness.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

I swear Redick isn't even the best shooter in the country (Salim Stoudamire or Travis Diener is) and yet this guy keeps being lauded as the best. He went 5-19 last night and his numbers aren't as great you'd think percentage wise.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm out to do what's best for the BULLS, and not necessarily to trade Hinrich. If Gordon proved to have too many weaknesses to start for us at the one, but still looked very good, would you trade HIM for Redick and a fat package of goodies?


A flawed Gordon, right now, is still better than Redick. So no. Why are you so high on Redick? He strikes me as yet another in a long line of good duke shooters who can't hack it in the big leagues. Where's Trajan Langdon? And Trajan was a better shooter than Redick is, no?


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

Someone else said it before I did...

How is JJ Reddick any different from Trajan Langdon?


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## rwj333 (Aug 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>yodurk</b>!
> Someone else said it before I did...
> 
> How is JJ Reddick any different from Trajan Langdon?


Langdon was a lottery pick... Why Jim Paxson has a job is beyond me. :rotf:

Taken before Magette, Artest, Posey, Foster, Kenny Thomas, Kirilenko.


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## ScottMay (Jun 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> what are goodies (drakes coffe cake perhaps?)


The junior, or the full size?

I think J.J. Redick has about as much of a chance to have an impact at the NBA level as Steve Alford did. If he ends up in the right system, he'll be able to hang on for a while as a tenth man. But it's going to be tough because the guy literally can't dribble and there won't have many people he can guard in the league.


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## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> A flawed Gordon, right now, is still better than Redick. So no. Why are you so high on Redick? He strikes me as yet another in a long line of good duke shooters who can't hack it in the big leagues. Where's Trajan Langdon? And Trajan was a better shooter than Redick is, no?


I'm not high on Redick. I was ASKING if you guys would do the trade and what you guys think about him. Well I generally got my nazi-like "how dare ye oppose Kirk" answer lol. Did I expect any different?

Hey guys I have one for you. Just for experiments sake.

1988 Jordan for Kirk Hinrich

LOL I'm sure within a few posts Kirk's army will have turned this into.... "well really what was Jordan? I mean yeah he could jump high, but was he as gritty and determined as Kirk?"

But I do agree. I actually hate J.J. Redick and wouldn't do the trade if you paid me. I just like to check the pulse of Kirk fans. Usually it registers right about at "very defensive should you dare even suggest trading Kirk for anyone." This time was no failure. Instead of saying....."Well this is Redick's value, so unless you're throwing in like Manu Ginobili no thanks" it of course turned into attacks of Redick and instant tone about why one would even suggest this.


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## svanacore (Nov 21, 2004)

Not only that but he can't penetrate unless he pushes off and the refs swallow the whistles, which they always do when he pushes off for some reason. He knocks guys down on their butt.

He'll never make an impact in this league.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm not high on Redick. I was ASKING if you guys would do the trade and what you guys think about him. Well I generally got my nazi-like "how dare ye oppose Kirk" answer lol. Did I expect any different?
> ...


The thing is, why should we even entertain the idea of trading Kirk or Ben for a player who no one thinks is going to be better than either? Let alone equal. It's just not a realistic idea.

Would I do Manu Ginobilli for Ben Gordon? Sure I would.

I just don't understand why you're being so defensive about this. Come up with something better than Redick to offer, and then we'll talk. I just don't see Redick as a real NBA player.


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## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

It's getting kind of fun. Like nowadays, in between reading stupid Eddy Curry trades for players worse than this......if I wanna have a good time for 5 minutes I'll just say "Player X for Kirk Hinrich"......I'll use a player I don't like (I really never could stand Redick and think he's another Wojochegewski-type (or whatever) Duke player. So like If I wanna see him attacked morally and mercilously, I'll just pit him against Kirk and watch the returns come in lol. 

Kirk Hinrich v. Martin Luther King Jr. -- LMFAO by the end of the hour my guess is MLK will have died a second death on this board (I like MLK btw, so don't go there).


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## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> It's getting kind of fun. Like nowadays, in between reading stupid Eddy Curry trades for players worse than this......if I wanna have a good time for 5 minutes I'll just say "Player X for Kirk Hinrich"......I'll use a player I don't like (I really never could stand Redick and think he's another Wojochegewski-type (or whatever) Duke player. So like If I wanna see him attacked morally and mercilously, I'll just pit him against Kirk and watch the returns come in lol.
> 
> Kirk Hinrich v. Martin Luther King Jr. -- LMFAO by the end of the hour my guess is MLK will have died a second death on this board (I like MLK btw, so don't go there).


Who has had a greater impact on the United States?

Kirk Hinrich v. Thomas Jefferson ..... LOL


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## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> 
> 
> The thing is, why should we even entertain the idea of trading Kirk or Ben for a player who no one thinks is going to be better than either? Let alone equal. It's just not a realistic idea.
> ...


I operate like a mirror. If you're nice I'll be nicer. If you're generous I'll be more generous. If you're a defensive ***** I'll be even more defensive. Fact is I was playing devil's advocate and I set the trap just looking for a good time. I got it lol.

Manu Ginobili for Ben Gordon....so are you telling me or implying that you'd hesitate for even half a second to trade Kirk Hinrich for Manu Ginobili?? 

Kirk Hinrich for Manu Ginobili...do you do it?


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## Illstate2 (Nov 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm not high on Redick. I was ASKING if you guys would do the trade and what you guys think about him. Well I generally got my nazi-like "how dare ye oppose Kirk" answer lol. Did I expect any different?
> ...


What the bloody hell are you talking about?

What "nazi-like" "we won't trade Kirk" for anyone posts have there been.

You yourself say that you hate Reddick and wouldn't do the trade if even you paid to do so. So why is it when others react in an equally strong fashion as *you * would when asked if they are they Kirk zealots?


Seems similar to how you equate saying anything less than complimentary to hatred or trying to run the "kid" out of town.

If you suggested a trade with Curry and Luke Shensherr(don't know about the spelling) as the principles the suggestion would also be laughed at in similar(actually stronger) fashion.


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## transplant (Jul 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> Suppose Redick were to stay at Duke until his eligibility were up and Ben Gordon were to become the all-around player many of us think he could be. Would you part with Kirk Hinrich for Redick plus goodies? Maybe Redick and a younger, cheaper, but equally hard-nosed version of AD, plus possibly a first rounder?
> 
> Would you think about it? Would it at least merit consideration?
> ...


This is a tough proposition(s) to answer thoughtfully because I see Hinrich as one of the better all around guards in the NBA and Redick is an outstanding college shooter, but not an all around guard even at the college level.

Redick + goodies? The goodies would have to be a lot better than Redick. Also, the goodies would have to include someone who can play both guard spots and defend either guard, because Redick and Gordon is a defensive nightmare of a backcourt. In other words, if the Bulls got Redick and lost Hinrich, they'd still need to completely replace Hinrich.

Put me down as seeing this proposition as a road leading to nowhere.


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## fl_flash (Aug 19, 2002)

I understand the basic premise of the thread. Ben Gordon would have to turn into a less selfish Steve Francis to even consider moving Hinrich. Also, if the goal of the trade is to acquire Reddick - who'll be a low first or early second round pick - to augment what was lost in Hinrich, I'd have to say no. Now, the suggestion of Pietrus, Biendris and GS's first would be very enticing. There's no way that Reddick is picked in the lottery.

If you're going to move Hinrich, you at least need to get a near all-star calibre player back or some decent role players and a pretty high lottery pick. Reddick ain't it.


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## svanacore (Nov 21, 2004)

I still don't understand why you are talking about JJ Reddick. Seriously, JJ Reddick. he's not that great of a talent.

There will be guys like Francisco Garcia that will go before him and i'd rather have them.

And if you want to trade Hinrich? Why not for someone like Ray Felton? 

Seriously guys, stop this nonsense with JJ Reddick. His shooting is overrated, Salim Stoudamire owns him but too bad he is only 6'1 though.

Reddick's poetry stinks too. As strong as a condor? A friggen condor?????


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## sov82 (Nov 5, 2003)

You want Redick...he of the two airballs at two end game situations vs. NC and vs. Maryland???

Redick is a nice college player. But look to the Maryland game last night as to the prime example why he will not be more than a shooting sub in the NBA. He simply is not skilled or athletic enough to be a mid-level+ NBA player. Can he play 5 years in the NBA...probably...will he have a few 20+ point games...yes. Will he ever average over 10pts a game...No


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

JJ Reddick is the new Steve Kerr at best.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> What's so hilarious about the responses here is.... this is the INSTANT reaction you get when you suggest that there might be SOMETHING or SOME combination of a guy like Redick, maybe a guy like Pietrus, maybe a 1st rounder, maybe even MORE THAN THAT.....that might actually be equal or better than Kirk Hinrich.
> 
> But then why am I so amazed? This is the board where, when discussing whether or not we could get Kobe in a trade that was offered as a hypothetical where we would RIP LA OFF, the reaction from one person was "I don't like the way this trade would affect Kirk."
> ...


Why do all Curry lovers hate Hinrich so bad, and vice versa?


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm out to do what's best for the BULLS, and not necessarily to trade Hinrich. If Gordon proved to have too many weaknesses to start for us at the one, but still looked very good, would you trade HIM for Redick and a fat package of goodies?




Any trade of Gordon or Hinrich that involves Redick, *Redick is the filler*, not the main part of the deal. He's an afterthought.


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## Pan Mengtu (Jun 18, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> 
> 
> I'm not high on Redick. I was ASKING if you guys would do the trade and what you guys think about him. Well I generally got my nazi-like "how dare ye oppose Kirk" answer lol. Did I expect any different?
> ...


What else would you expect when asking about trading Hinrich for a nobody? Well thought out responses? Would you give a well thought out response to someone who makes a "Eddy Curry v. DeSagana Diop" thread?


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## hobojoe (Jun 20, 2003)

I wouldn't use a first rounder on JJ Redick no matter what, and I doubt I'd even use a high 2nd rounder on him unless my team had a big need for a shooter. He's just not a great prospect at all. His shooting is overrated, and he's not good or even average at anything else.


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## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Illstate2</b>!
> 
> 
> What the bloody hell are you talking about?
> ...


Dude don't assume....Luke Shensherr is sick lol.

But the whole point is if it wasn't one of the first 10 Eddy trades that day I'd just be like "no thanks" and not get so defensive about it.


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## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>fl_flash</b>!
> I understand the basic premise of the thread. Ben Gordon would have to turn into a less selfish Steve Francis to even consider moving Hinrich. Also, if the goal of the trade is to acquire Reddick - who'll be a low first or early second round pick - to augment what was lost in Hinrich, I'd have to say no. Now, the suggestion of Pietrus, Biendris and GS's first would be very enticing. There's no way that Reddick is picked in the lottery.
> 
> If you're going to move Hinrich, you at least need to get a near all-star calibre player back or some decent role players and a pretty high lottery pick. Reddick ain't it.


Thank you for answering my question without being a defensive a-hole or acting like I brought something up that just doesn't merit discussion or acting like I said things I didn't say or didn't say things I did say. 

Remember though I qualified this with under the right conditions. The right conditions to me would include Redick becoming a far better all around player over the next two seasons...


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## Killuminati (Jul 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> JJ Reddick is the new Steve Kerr at best.


I think he'd be extremely lucky to even achieve that much. :|


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## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>Pan Mengtu</b>!
> 
> 
> Why do all Curry lovers hate Hinrich so bad, and vice versa?


I don't hate Hinrich...he's just overrated and too far beyond reproach on every Bulls message board. He Paxson, Skiles and Noce all share two characteristics. 

1. They are never allowed to be questioned under any circumstances
2. Take a wild friggin guess


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> 
> 
> I don't hate Hinrich...he's just overrated and too far beyond reproach on every Bulls message board. He Paxson, Skiles and Noce all share two characteristics.
> ...


Hmmm. Shall we add Reiner to the list while we're at it?


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## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>sp00k</b>!
> 
> 
> Hmmm. Shall we add Reiner to the list while we're at it?


Reiner being obviously a total scrub takes him out of that category. But he is defended by many here if you try to point out that he's worse than advertised.

We're in a city that never fully ripped Farnsworth. Instead he was "the Farnz." There are STILL Jim Miller apologists in this city. 

Yes if you have a certain characteristic and TOTALLY suck (Reiner) or are a total a-hole (McNown).....you will not get a pass. But the presumption is still there for you to take advantage of.


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## Illstate2 (Nov 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> 
> 
> Dude don't assume....Luke Shensherr is sick lol.
> ...


These are the responses that came in after your original post:



> Originally posted by <b>Sir Patchwork</b>!
> No. If Gordon becomes a great all around player, I'm not opposed to dealing Hinrich, but not for Reddick. Gordon needs to play shooting guard but defend point guards, which means we need a point guard who can guard shooting guards. Hinrich is a guy who can do that. Something tells me that finding someone better than Hinrich, with more point guard skills, who can also guard shooting guards as well as Hinrich, will be extremely difficult. However, if it can be done, do it.





> Originally posted by <b>Yyzlin</b>!
> Of course not. You don't trade someone who starts for someone who doesn't have the skills to play 30+ minutes a game. Redick will definitely have value for many teams because of his shooting skills, but the defiencies in other areas of his game hamper him.





> Originally posted by <b>Machinehead</b>!
> This is a joke right ?
> 
> Oh Vega !
> ...


Which in turn precipitated two consecutive posts from you, the second of which was:


> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> What's so hilarious about the responses here is.... this is the INSTANT reaction you get when you suggest that there might be SOMETHING or SOME combination of a guy like Redick, maybe a guy like Pietrus, maybe a 1st rounder, maybe even MORE THAN THAT.....that might actually be equal or better than Kirk Hinrich.
> 
> But then why am I so amazed? This is the board where, when discussing whether or not we could get Kobe in a trade that was offered as a hypothetical where we would RIP LA OFF, the reaction from one person was "I don't like the way this trade would affect Kirk."
> ...


Now who was being defensive?

To me, the only one is yourself, unless there were some posts mixed in with those I quoted that were somehow not visible in my browser.


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## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

Ok well I explained that when someone is defensive with me I will be more defensive back....or did you not read that.


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> 
> 
> Reiner being obviously a total scrub takes him out of that category. But he is defended by many here if you try to point out that he's worse than advertised.
> ...


Alright Gip, just so we have this argument of yours clear, you claim that the city of Chicago consists of mostly racists that take joy in the demise of our black athletes while doing our best to hide the flaws of our white athletes?


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## Illstate2 (Nov 11, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Gipper</b>!
> Ok well I explained that when someone is defensive with me I will be more defensive back....or did you not read that.


But nobody got defensive with you. Of the three responses that led to you getting defensive, the first two actually explained why they wouldn't do the trade, and the other, was delivered in a joking tone. There was no defensiveness. There were no posts that suggested that nobody would ever consider trading Kirk.


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## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>sp00k</b>!
> 
> 
> Alright Gip, just so we have this argument of yours clear, you claim that the city of Chicago consists of mostly racists that take joy in the demise of our black athletes while doing our best to hide the flaws of our white athletes?


Do we have to go into this? Refer back to Duhon Mania shutting everybody up on this very topic a couple months ago.

Sociologically we are non-maliciously and subconsciously more likely to gravitate toward those who share more traits with us. Why do people cheer harder for Brian Scalabrine at Nets games than anyone else? They said it on the Houston broadcast of the Houston v. Bulls games. "They cheer hardest for that 12th man because the average fan feels like that 12th man is closest in skill to the fan himself."

I'm saying you will subconsciously defend people who share more characteristics with you. So if Kirk Hinrich was black, but grew up in your house as your adopted brother, he would NOT have the trait of being white in common with you (if you are white) but that would be offset by the fact that he would share the same trait with you in terms of being from the same household.

This is what I was getting at the other day. Do I really care to discuss who I am as a person. Actually not really. But if you personally challenge me I will let you know when you lack the intelligence to do so. You sir do....you simply aren't good enough. If we had this argument, which you are so convinced already is a home run, with each other, in front of a federal judge, I'd have you in a tearful rage in less than 20 minutes. 

Come back at what I just wrote. You will be disappointed. The last time someone came at this argument like you did on a message board with me, he had a bunch of people bandwagon with him and within an hour I was getting PMs that said things like "wow, I never saw it that way. But I guess it's true" from people who originally vehemently disagreed with me. 

Take Luol Deng. To the average blue collar Bulls fan he TOO will get more favorable treatment in a given situation than Eddy Curry. This is because his work ethic is perceived to be closer to the average blue collar Bulls fan's work ethic than Eddy Curry. But since this trait is not as strong as being of the same race, he will not quite receive the same subconscious go ahead as Kirk Hinrich. 

This is not just a white thing. Everyone does it. My point is that you do it too whether you know it or not if you are white. Do you think I'm denying that black people don't do that with Jamal Crawford? I'm italian. Am I presupposing that Italian's don't on average identify stronger with Rocky Marciano or Rocky Graziano (or whatever his name was) than most every non-italian boxer? No!


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## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

Post 3 I construed as defensive. If you don't like that then we can end the discussion and agree that we disagree on that. I will not relent to you ever. I'd rather shoot myself in the face....what don't you get about that.


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## futuristxen (Jun 26, 2003)

Gipp. Buddy. Chill. No one likes JJ Redick. It's got nothing to do with Hinrich or Curry or Ben Gordon.


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## The Gipper (Dec 27, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>futuristxen</b>!
> Gipp. Buddy. Chill. No one likes JJ Redick. It's got nothing to do with Hinrich or Curry or Ben Gordon.


Again you are succinct. I need to chill but im far from the only one. No one likes JJ Redick....that's pretty much all I was trying to find out. Come on Futuristxen, you seem reasonable....had I said I disliked him, you know 80 people would have been all over his nuts lol.


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## smARTmouf (Jul 16, 2002)

hey...I like reddick...

but hinrich is a better player..

i would love to have reddick on the bulls roster...but thats just me


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