# Saving Face affected?



## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*Isiah Thomas "SAVING-FACE" got him his extension, but it tore apart Channing Frye well performance.* 

Channing Frye Cure is simple, 24 mpg without Eddy Curry in the lineup with him. Channing Frye is allergic to Curry *(windmill)* elbows, the only time Curry seem to go for a rebound is when Frye is positioned for the rebound. 

*Channing Frye is 6.11 and goes unnotice in the paint by the Knick Coach Plan to give the ball to Eddy Curry.* Frye only gets touches when he is outside the paint (20 to 25 ft from the basket). Meaning to get close to the basket 6.11 Frye have to put the ball on the floor, and we all know what happens to the average 6.9 player who keep putting the ball on the floor (Turnover). 

*Channing Frye poor season is the Knicks Coach and his coaching staff doing to a sophmore player with outstanding skillz with talent inside & outside on both sides of the court. Because all the time and energy of the entire Knick Coaching Staff of preparing the frontcourt players is all given to one High School Player Eddy Curry who is a "Forever" work in progress just to get a defensive rebound.* 

*The Knicks Coach & Coaching Staff has not been teaching Channing Frye how to develope his inside game or how to play above the rim *(that is why his FG% and going to the FT is so low this season), they are forcing 6.11 Frye to do things that a BIG-MAN is not supposed to do. Channing Frye got better coaching advice last season from Maurice Taylor than what he is getting in his second season with the Knicks. 
*Isiah Thomas "SAVING-FACE" season... *


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*Isiah Thomas is proving to be one of the worst coaches in the NBA *(with his LUV for Curry, Jefferies, and Francis). 

*There is NO-Design Offensive-Plays for either first-rounder Channing Frye or Balkman. WHY?* Lee, Crawford, and Q.Rich is injured and everytime we do get the chance to see Frye, Balkman, and Nate on the court together playing to each other talents the Coach pulls one of them off the court to see if they could play the same with Curry, Jefferies, or Francis. This messes up these players tempo and chemistry playing with to many One-Dimensional Players. 

*Channing Frye is an offense by himself if giving the green light and some picks & blocks to the basket without the ball.* Frye & Balkman are two players that like to play above the rim. I would rather Jerome James be in the game blocking & picking for these two players to get open than stand still Eddy Curry waiting on the ball to committ a dozen ways of turning the ball over.


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## ballocks (May 15, 2003)

the new york knicks are one of those teams that have it a lot tougher than others, imo. there are teams like that in every professional league, teams that- for whatever reason- have to 'build' in their own unique way, are almost forbidden from _re_building, and draw so much attention to themselves as to minimize the performance of the players they _do_ have.

i mean, they're the butt of all jokes (even this season) among basketball fans, but when you think about sheer talent (which is always a foolish thing to do but bear with me), you could hardly name a handful of more talented teams in the league. the knicks, then, offer a real-life example of why talent is not everything (for those few people who would like to believe that it is).

think about the ride that channing frye has taken, for example- you just don't see that in every market... or _any_ other market. this man, right or wrong, was for some time perceived as the most promising rookie in last year's draft class. now he can't get his foot in the door. his rep was beaming last year; now it's taking regular abuse from, i believe, probably the same group of people that lauded him last year. it leads me to ask, what exactly has changed about channing frye? is he really that different a player this year than he was last year? probably not, which naturally leads you to think that the intangibles in new york are absolutely unique- for better or worse. few other players in the league are obligated to ride the wave that the knicks are. how do you play through that? and it doesn't go away, it's _always_ there! it's got to be a real challenge. the media doesn't really care- hell, the fans don't really care since they always have something controversial to talk about, too- and whether the team can endure those ups and downs that they wouldn't be forced to face anywhere else determines their chance of success. 

i personally don't think many players in the world are immune to that game, the game of 'attention', and it might be why the knicks have found it so hard to perform at a high level in recent times. it's just draining, it's got to be exhausting- especially if you were to think about how much easier (but boring?) it might be in another league market. that would make it even more frustrating.

if i were the knicks, i'd invest considerable $$$ money in scouting- not the scouting of talents, but rather _personalities_, exceptional people who might be able to handle the whirlwind ride of new york. we've already seen- we're seeing it now- the results of a group featuring great talent, and it doesn't seem to work. by process of elimination, maybe it's come time to try something new- to take a new approach to team building, if you will.

imo, it simply has to be harder to build in new york. i wish we'd all keep that in mind the next time we want to make a joke at the expense of the new york knicks. it can't be easy.

peace


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*Ballocks, I beg to differ, Isiah Thomas is using 6.11 Channing Frye this season the sameway that the Portland Trailblazzers used 6.10 Jermain O'Neal for three straight seasons.* 

The Portland Trailblazzers had to "SAVE-FACE" for bringing in all those Star-Players who got all the important Roles and playingtime, well it is simular here in New York with Isiah Thomas giving up TWO unprotected First Round Draft Picks for Eddy Curry. 
*There are way to many things that Eddy Curry Lack in to be given up ONE first round draft pick (and then an unprotected first round too!). *
Both Larry Brown and Isiah Thomas had to design the offense every other trip down the court to go to Eddy Curry so that he can get used to NBA Competition. NO Bigman in the NBA League got more offensive touches in the last two seasons than Eddy Curry. And he still is a half of a BUM in this NBA league. But Isiah Thomas have to "SAVE-FACE" even if it means not giving C-Cato or C-Jerome James any playingtime and taking Channing Frye out of all offense in the paint. Jackie Butler was the Knicks best used Center last season and Isiah Thomas refused to resign him for 25% of the MLE for 3 seasons.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*The Knicks PROBLEM in WINNING is the unproper Coaching of Isiah Thomas.* The Coach is still trying to make Chemistry with Players that dont Co-Exist with each other on the court. Plus the Players that do Co-exist with chemistry on the court the Coach disreguard them as REBELS *(As well as David Lee been playing this season with his teammates at the start of the season with "Double-Doubles" you would think he would have been averaging 44 MPG and fouling-out of the majority of games with his hard hustling performance. Playing Lee at PF to C-Curry and then to C-Frye whom both Players play well with David Lee as their PF.).* 
*30 MPG of Channing Frye & David Lee together is a guaranteed "Double-Double" out of both players. 
It's the Coach not the Players!*


1 - Lee (best player so far this year)
Kiya) Lee is the best Co-existing Player with all his teammates. 
2 - Marbury (2nd best player so far this year) 
Kiya) Marbury improved, but lack Leadership. 
3 - Curry (having a monster year) 
Kiya) Curry has been this Team Biggest Failure since arriving. 
4 - QRich (started off great this year)
Kiya) Q.Rich is off & on and not dependable. 
5 - Crawford (struggling a bit this year but still clutch) 
Kiya) Crawford & Curry makes this a 300% record team. 
6 - Balkman (plays well in limited minutes) 
Kiya) Balkman is a WINNER under a steady Coaching system with a TEAM-PLAN. Which Isiah have none. 
7 - Frye (started slow, picked it up, now dropped off again) 
Kiya) Frye is a 6.11 STAR-Player that the Coach refuse to give the Green Light to on offense because of 34 MPG Eddy Curry. 
8 - Collins (only recently getting burn but playing great) 
Kiya) Collins has prove to be this team best Combo-Guard. 
9 - Jeffries (struggled early, playing well lately) 
Kiya) Jefferies is this season 15th Man off the bench, he does not co-exist with any of his teamates on offense or defense (Ariza is 100 times better!). 
10 - Robinson (struggling this year) 
Kiya) Nate been put in the Coaches Dog-House because he wants to WIN. 
11 - Rose (actually surprisingly playing above my expectations) 
Kiya) Malik is the Best Spot-Role Player on the team if the Coach learn how to use him. 
12 - Cato (played well early, hasnt played at all lately) 
Kiya) Cato should be use more often for Spot Role Play in setting Picks & Blocks for his teammates to get open Jumpshots or slash. 
13 - Francis (really struggling this year) 
Kiya) Francis is still waiting for the real Coach to arrive. 
14 - James (need I say more) 
Kiya) Jerome James is a solid 18 to 24 MPG Center that would put this Knick Team above the 500% record mark just by clearing the lanes for his offensive teammates Marbury, Crawford, Q.Rich, Lee, Frye, Balkman, Nate, and Francis. 

*It's not the Players BAD Performance, it is how the Players are being rotated into each game, and the Roles they been given which makes their performance look BAD...*


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

I think its more saving his job than saving face , 

Zeke had to get wins while developing the team , Channing really is not the dominant force curry is , Channing is more of a 2nd or 3rd option right now because his jumpshot is still somewhat inconsistent and his post game is not nearly as developed as curry's

Curry gives the team an identity , it makes the other teams have to play the knicks differently , out of their comfort zone because most teams have their teams run their offenses around pick and rolls, face up big men or dominant perimeter players .

there are exactly 3 teams that have any semblance of a true low post offense the knicks heat and rockets ....and the heat are only really like this because wade is hurt , and the rockets are as much T-mac's team as Yao's ....the Knicks really are trying to be the sole team in the league with their center as their clear cut #1 option.

that alone gives them an advantage because its something teams aren't used to playing on a regular basis.

Players have to learn and adjust , marbury did as has the team , for the most part and now so must Frye , Thomas cant make the baskets for him , or rebound for him, Channing has to find a way to make himself very useful or he falls behind , no different than malik rose .

Channing has to learn how to get himself involved , he is big , smart and skilled , there is no reason he cant make few jumpshots a game , get a few free throws and a few layups/dunks off of running the floor and offensive boards., 6 baskets 3 free throws gets him 15 points a game and every1 off his back and would probably lead to more playing time , and of course more points and rebounds .

his main problem is that he is not playing well enough , he isn't closing down the lane, he isn't rebounding well enough and he isn't scoring enough ...only 1 of those can any1 even think Thomas has anything to do with. Channing has to get on the boards , channing has to watch tape and know the other teams plays and read the scouting reports and then channing has to execute, he has to know when to rotate and when to stay with his man, he has to be more aware of how to make himself useful, How many times did Marbury have to reset the offense and launch a 3 at the end of the shotclock?

Are you telling me Channing could not have set him a pick not 1 of those times and maybe got himself an easy jumpshot off a pick and pop or marbury an easier shot just by setting a pick on TJ ford?

this is the sort of thing channing can do to make himself more important , bur he doesn't , until he does , this is all frye's fault because he is getting more APT than his play for the most part waarants because he played so well last year and because he was drafted so high and needs to keep his value, and because of his potential


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*Curry vs Frye?*

Wazup Da Grinch, I beg to differ, last season in Frye Rookie season he played at both positions Center and PF. He did great because he was allowed to postup down-low or come out-side to shoot from the peremeter when he had a strong rebounder defending him. Coach Isiah Thomas Keeps 6.11Channing Frye outside on every offensive play this season (Frye is 81% from the FT). 

*Who would you build the Team around? Curry or Frye?* 
*Remember both Coaches Larry Brown & especially Coach Isiah Thomas has went way overboard in trying to improve Eddy Curry talent in the last two seasons. I dont believe any BIG-MAN in the NBA got as many offensive touches as Eddy Curry in the last two seasons.* 


*The Knicks (Isiah Thomas) actually gave Eddy Curry 65% of all the Knicks offensive plays this season to get him to at least be a decent NBA Center that can score.* 
To do this the Knicks had to take 6.11 Channing Frye out of the paint on offense to give Eddy Curry room to go ONE on ONE. Curry Failure this season cost the entire Knick-Team to Fail because he gets all the playingtime at the Center position while failing each game to be that dominate center and go to guy.

*Who wants a 36 MPG Center that average 4 to 5 rebounds and 18 points per game, while each of his oponents is always going for career highs when playing against him?* 

*Is Eddy Curry better than Jerome James?* I doubt it, because Jerome James help his teammates score and rebound, plus he play defense something that Eddy Curry seem alergic to. 

After watching David Lee in the offseason Summer League Games and the Pre-Season games it should've been made official that David Lee was the Knicks Starting PF for 82 games when the 2006-7 season begun. It would have been the BEST WISE move of any coach with Jerome James & Jefferies injured at the start of the season and Maurice Taylor buy-out. 
*Why was'nt David Lee giving the Starting-PF position?* for reason of 6.11 Channing Frye would've been Curry first backing-up off the bench and doing a better LOW-POST Job in the PAINT with David Lee as his PF. Knick-Fans would've fell in LUV with the Frye & Lee tandem and been screaming for Channing Frye in the MIDDLE playing the Center position (Starting), rather than Curry. Isiah Thomas was not going to take that chance when he gave up TWO Unprotected First round draft picks for Curry. 


*Put Channing Frye back in the MIDDLE.*


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Curry vs Frye?*



Kiyaman said:


> Wazup Da Grinch, I beg to differ, last season in Frye Rookie season he played at both positions Center and PF. He did great because he was allowed to postup down-low or come out-side to shoot from the peremeter when he had a strong rebounder defending him. Coach Isiah Thomas Keeps 6.11Channing Frye outside on every offensive play this season (Frye is 81% from the FT).
> 
> *Who would you build the Team around? Curry or Frye?*
> *Remember both Coaches Larry Brown & especially Coach Isiah Thomas has went way overboard in trying to improve Eddy Curry talent in the last two seasons. I dont believe any BIG-MAN in the NBA got as many offensive touches as Eddy Curry in the last two seasons.*
> ...


the reason why i disagree is simple , David Lee.

Frye according to 82games.com shoots way too many jumpshots 78% of his total shots are jumpshots compared to 22% for David Lee, Channing is much bigger and stronger than Lee , but he is not making his own opportunities , 

Last year Channing grabbed 2.1 offensive rebounds a game , this year 1.3 despite playing 1 minute more a gamme and being more acclimated to the game.

for comparison's sake Jared jeffries avg. 2.1 off. rebounds a game QRich gets 1.3 david lee gets 3.4 eddy curry gets 2.4 and renaldo balkman gets 1.1

if channing were truly doing all he could he would be up with david lee and eddy curry in that stat, not with balkman and qrich....he's only avg. 0.5 more off. rebounds than jamal crawford , thats really unacceptable. 

He's not doing enough to get himself off, he had his chance , when he came off the bench his numbers went down despite he was for the most part the #1 post option then because he was mostly Curry's backup , his #s went down(9.0 points 4.8 reb. .426 fg% 0.54 blocks in 24 minutes), Zeke is not keeping him out the post , 

David Lee finds a way to get himself layups and dunks ...how come frye cant?

To me everything begins and ends with Frye, if he were doing more I could see putting the blame elsewhere but he is lumbering around the perimeter trying to take 20 fters, he's 6'11 250 and only 1 out of every 5 shots is in the paint , thats sad , and thats him , if he cant get a pass, get it off the glass , run up and down the baseline like balkman does and wait for feeds off of penetration, set more picks, force the action .

Conspiracy theories aside when i watch the games I see Frye not getting himself going , I see him not crashing the boards , i see him not putting himself in position for layups and running the floor like Lee does.

Its getting to the point where I want him traded for a player who actually goes out and gets things going.

I see Curry fighting for position , following the ball establishing position on both sides of the lane while frye stands on the perimter , The knicks have the simplest offense in the league , he can easily move into the post or even the high post and get himself shots.

when other teams go zone why doesn't he get in the high post and force the issue , if he did that the team wouldn't need to import a shooter , he could be the zone buster...but he isn't, in fact he looks lost , he does very little and thats why he is suffering , Not Zeke , you say Lee should be starting and Frye would be better but the 13 games this season frye came off the bench Channing did less than usual.

Sometimes you have to blame the player ...this is one of those times.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Kiyaman is right*

Frye takes jumpers because thats where IT pencils in his offense. Tough to get a lot of offensive rebounds when you are on the perimeter and not the most athletic player. I'm sure you can cite similar players with similar roles that do better, though. Asking why Frye can't do the same things as Lee is as dumb as asking why Curry can't shoot like Frye....they are just different players with a different set of skills. Same with Lee. How many offensive boards do you think Curry would get if he was shooting 20 footers? My guess is that he would only get the ones that came to him. If you understood anything about the IT/Curry offense, you would understand that IT does not want Frye posting up or bringing his man near Curry to where he could double. He is just using Frye as a spot up shooter to receive the passes from Eddy that never come. Using Curry as THE main option is a poor strategy. There is NOTHING to indicate he can handle that kind of attention and pressure and since him passing out of pressure would be an absolute requirement of this to work, I don't see it as a contending offense. Not to mention our lack of CONSISTENT shooters. I can't think of any title team that has used a center to dominate the ball successfully, unless they are an extremely good ball handler and/or passer. To use Curry at that role (a notoriously bad passer and turnover machine) is a poor strategy and it comes at the expense of other's games. Frye is an example.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Kiyaman is right*



alphaorange said:


> Frye takes jumpers because thats where IT pencils in his offense. Tough to get a lot of offensive rebounds when you are on the perimeter and not the most athletic player. I'm sure you can cite similar players with similar roles that do better, though. Asking why Frye can't do the same things as Lee is as dumb as asking why Curry can't shoot like Frye....they are just different players with a different set of skills. Same with Lee. How many offensive boards do you think Curry would get if he was shooting 20 footers? My guess is that he would only get the ones that came to him. If you understood anything about the IT/Curry offense, you would understand that IT does not want Frye posting up or bringing his man near Curry to where he could double. He is just using Frye as a spot up shooter to receive the passes from Eddy that never come. Using Curry as THE main option is a poor strategy. There is NOTHING to indicate he can handle that kind of attention and pressure and since him passing out of pressure would be an absolute requirement of this to work, I don't see it as a contending offense. Not to mention our lack of CONSISTENT shooters. I can't think of any title team that has used a center to dominate the ball successfully, unless they are an extremely good ball handler and/or passer. To use Curry at that role (a notoriously bad passer and turnover machine) is a poor strategy and it comes at the expense of other's games. Frye is an example.


Isiah's offense is rather simple and gives his players a lot of flexibility of where they go , there is no reason frye is on the outside more than lets say jeffries or malik rose , its where channing chooses to go , 

in the last couple of games channing has been more proactive about getting shots , but for the most part he takes the easy route and gets them on the outside , whereas lee pretty much stays inside no matter what garnering him the nickname "shallow water" , The rule of thumb is that team will give you outside shots and try to avoid you getting the interior shots , Lee to his credit works hard to get those shots , Jeffries works hard sometimes , balkman works hard , Channing's effort to get inside shots is similar to malik rose's which is near nothing

there are no "Lee sets" and "Channing sets", the offense isn't geared around either of them, Zeke is pretty much doing nothing to get either of them off outside of his basic offense, about 75% of the time the sets used are read and react past the entry pass to curry. they dont even run pick and pops in their set offense only when things break down and nothing is working, Frye has to work at getting his shots.

Zeke's offense is for the most part a motion offense with no set positions, either guard can be playmakers , either forward can be inside or outside , the only real position is center because Curry is being fed the ball, and when he is off the court there is none of that because no one takes the lead and posts up , Channing was demoted to get his offense going and he actually took less shots because he didn't post up enough , yet somehow thats Thomas's fault too right?

I'm not saying that Channing should just be like Lee , how about Jeffries ? Jeffries avg. more offensive rebounds than channing too, and balkman is gaining on him every game Lee is out hurt , as the only big in the game for the knicks for most of the 2nd half , there was nothing stopping him from posting up more or working to get inside more , according to espn's shot chart only 2 of his 15 shots were in the paint (and no free throw attempts), thats not Thomas trying for that ratio , he wouldn't want that from anyone on the roster , guards included...he still had a good game , but in a game where Curry is out due to fouls and ineffectiveness, there was a void down low , and channing had chosen not to fill it.

42 minutes , no curry pushing him outside , 1 offensive rebound...2 interior shots.

unacceptable, he was literally the biggest guy on the court most of the game , certainly the strongest. yet only 2 of his 15 were in the paint.

he got over 2 offensive boards a game last year and this was a game where curry was not really a factor , and he only gets 1 in 42 minutes , this is not on Zeke , this is on Frye....even nate robinson got 2 in 27 minutes.

this is proof that he wants to be outside, if he didn't he had his opportunity today to be inside and he stayed outside anyway.

also using Curry as a main weapon is the best strategy you have ever seen with the knicks , they went from the 24th best offense in the league to the 10th this season , in fact its their highest amount of efficiency ever 108.3 per 100 possesions compared to their next best in 88-89 at 107.5.

its hard to really talk bad about Thomas' coaching on offense when the facts say how good he really has been.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Baloney*

Frye had a good game...period. Is it so hard for you to admit that? Curry has stunk lately and Frye has NOT been the focal point of IT's offense. While they don't really run plays, per se, they DO have responsibility for position. You make it sound like they are playing a pick-up game....everybody just goes where they want. Do you really believe that? I got to believe that you either don't watch the games or you don't know what you are watching. Lee most certainly does NOT hang around inside....neither does Balkman...and neither does Jeffries. In fact IT has been working with JJ to improve his jumper (like Lee) so they can keep teams from cheating. Those guys, to a man, get their offensive rebounds by crashing and using the superior length and athleticism to get offensive rebounds. Frye does not possess the athleticism, yet he still rebounds (total boards) and blocks at a clip superior to Curry's. Frye is able to pull a big man away from the hoop with his shooting. Why would you want him to post up. Think he was going to use Bosh? Tout Curry all you want, but he still isn't an all-star.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*Re: Kiyaman is right*



alphaorange said:


> Frye takes jumpers because thats where IT pencils in his offense. Tough to get a lot of offensive rebounds when you are on the perimeter and not the most athletic player. I'm sure you can cite similar players with similar roles that do better, though. Asking why Frye can't do the same things as Lee is as dumb as asking why Curry can't shoot like Frye....they are just different players with a different set of skills. Same with Lee. How many offensive boards do you think Curry would get if he was shooting 20 footers? My guess is that he would only get the ones that came to him. If you understood anything about the IT/Curry offense, you would understand that IT does not want Frye posting up or bringing his man near Curry to where he could double. He is just using Frye as a spot up shooter to receive the passes from Eddy that never come. Using Curry as THE main option is a poor strategy. There is NOTHING to indicate he can handle that kind of attention and pressure and since him passing out of pressure would be an absolute requirement of this to work, I don't see it as a contending offense. Not to mention our lack of CONSISTENT shooters. I can't think of any title team that has used a center to dominate the ball successfully, unless they are an extremely good ball handler and/or passer. To use Curry at that role (a notoriously bad passer and turnover machine) is a poor strategy and it comes at the expense of other's games. Frye is an example.


*Wazup Alphaorange,* I have to give it to you for watching and analysing why the Knicks are an unsuccessful team this season by staying under the 500% record. When honestly they have the Roster to be close to a 600% record team this season. 
*Isiah offense with Curry is the worst turnover offense that one could imagine. Eddy Curry finds new way each game to turn the ball over.* *Yet Coach Isiah keep going to him. How do you think Curry Teammates feel about this when it keeps leading to more LOSES than WINS?* 
It bothers me sometime when Curry would fumble a pass that leads to a turnover, and then the next time down the court on offense Curry would get caught for a 3-second violation in the paint or get an offensive foul postioning himself down low, and then the 3rd time on offense Curry would get an explosive DUNK to make the crowd go wild to make everyone just talk about the explosive dunk *when in reality Curry is just a TURNOVER-MACHINE.* 
It's not like this happen to Curry once a game this happens with Curry once or twice a quarter in every game. The Knicks can not hold onto a lead to save their life when Eddy Curry is on the court. 

*6.11 Channing Frye is a Sophmore in the NBA inwhich TWO coaches in TWO seasons writes up every Knick-offensive-play for Frye to stay outside of the paint.* This season 6.11 Frye supposed to have been down low posting up every Knick oponents BIG-Men learning what to do and what not to do, plus what Top-BIG-Men in the league that defends best downlow on the left-side and the right-side of the basket (this way before the game Frye knows to practice hard on his jump-shot by bringing this top Bigman oponent outside of the paint.), also if Frye was posting up alot this season he could learn how to defend from other good defenders techniques in the NBA to better his growth as a defender in the future. 
6.11 Channing Frye Defense could WIN Knick Games the same as his offense, we see it in his creativity as a freshman and sophmore. *Coach Isiah Thomas is holding Frye back (To Save-Face for Curry & Jefferies).*


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Baloney*



alphaorange said:


> Frye had a good game...period. Is it so hard for you to admit that? Curry has stunk lately and Frye has NOT been the focal point of IT's offense. While they don't really run plays, per se, they DO have responsibility for position. You make it sound like they are playing a pick-up game....everybody just goes where they want. Do you really believe that? I got to believe that you either don't watch the games or you don't know what you are watching. Lee most certainly does NOT hang around inside....neither does Balkman...and neither does Jeffries. In fact IT has been working with JJ to improve his jumper (like Lee) so they can keep teams from cheating. Those guys, to a man, get their offensive rebounds by crashing and using the superior length and athleticism to get offensive rebounds. Frye does not possess the athleticism, yet he still rebounds (total boards) and blocks at a clip superior to Curry's. Frye is able to pull a big man away from the hoop with his shooting. Why would you want him to post up. Think he was going to use Bosh? Tout Curry all you want, but he still isn't an all-star.


Frye did have a good game but if you think he is going to consistently have games where he shoots 10-15 when 13 of those shots are jumpshots you are fooling yourself.

Its fools gold plain and simple, in a couple of years he may actually be at a point where he can do that , but this season there are about 65 games of proof that he cant do it consistently .

Frye does not have more boards than curry , neither are particualy good rebounders but due to minutes given to curry , he has a significant advantage by about a board and a half a game.

Fyre has to make himself a focal point and put himself in a position to take more shots , there is no focal point right now , what we have now is marbury attempting to force feed curry and when it doesn't work , he does it himself....which is the best thing that can happen to frye any1 who knows anything about marbury's game knows he prefers a pick and roll game , which is great for frye ...but frye chooses not to get himself involved going towards the basket ...he has only recently taken any inititive at all , and he is getting a bunch of shots now.

which is what i've been saying he should do all along , now is the next step and get himself easy shots by rolling to the hoop , crashing boards , running the floor more .

Lee, balkman and jeffries get themselves easy shots by getting into the paint , maybe you should watch more games and you would notice that , they cut , they fill lanes , they hit the boards , they run the floor....all of which they do more than frye which is why they take more inside shots than him .

you are basically giving him a pass to be the next brad sellers , which i dont do , i think he should do more.

I have been watching Thomas' offense for years, in Indiana he ran the exact same stuff , outside of its focal point you get out of it what you put into it.

its sad you dont expect more.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*Isiah Thomas maybe the BEST G.M. at picking young draft players however, Isiah Thomas is a BUM when it comes to coaching these young players.* 

When you add Rookie Balkman on the court with Frye, Lee, and Nate those four players (with Rookie Collins) could beat any other 5-Players you put together on this Knicks Roster. Their chemistry level of playing together on bothsides of the court is higher than any other 5-players the Knicks have on their roster vs NBA Competition. 

It is ashame that Isiah Thomas is afraid to admitt or play these Young WINNING 5-Players to get to the Playoffs, or stay above the 500% record this season. Isiah Thomas think he would look bad if he gave the majority of playingtime to these 5-Young-Raw-Hustling-Players rather than all the high paying veteran turnover BUMS he traded for or signed up. 

*In the 67 game, Portland did not have a clue on how to stop the David Lee & Rookie Balkman Tandem in the 2nd quarter. Portland could'nt score on the Lee/Balkman Tandem or stop them from rebounding on both sides of the glass on the court (We seen this Hustle Lee/Balkman Tandem very early in the season when Jarde Jefferies was on the Injured-List and how this Tandem help Eddy Curry get 9-Straight Double-Doubles which STOPPED when Jefferies came off the injured list and became a 30 MPG Starter).* 

*It is now OFFICIAL that Eddy Curry and Jared Jefferies are BUMS! They both Lead this Knick Team in LOSES (they are the worst players to give playingtime to in the 3rd quarter or the 2nd half of any game.) .* 

All Lee need is his Partner in Crime (Rookie Balkman) beside him on the court with a dish of Frye & Nate creativeness to make this Knick Team a WINNING Club. You can add some Marbury, Francis, Collins, Q.Rich, and some steady playingtime Jerome James so he can get Familiar with his teammates vs NBA Competition. 
*The Curry, Crawford, and Jefferies have to go to another team.* 

*Knick-Fans and Members I would like your response to this question?

Question:* 
*If the Tandem of Lee & Balkman plays 30 MPG in the next 10 games how many "DOUBLE-DOUBLES" will each one of them get??? *


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

Kiyaman said:


> *Isiah Thomas maybe the BEST G.M. at picking young draft players however, Isiah Thomas is a BUM when it comes to coaching these young players.*
> 
> When you add Rookie Balkman on the court with Frye, Lee, and Nate those four players (with Rookie Collins) could beat any other 5-Players you put together on this Knicks Roster. Their chemistry level of playing together on bothsides of the court is higher than any other 5-players the Knicks have on their roster vs NBA Competition.
> 
> ...


I dont think a lack of playing Lee is the reason the knicks loss last night , its his 1st game back in almost a month and he has had to rest his legs for those 11 games because his injury was stress related, he was not quite in game shape and i think it was easy enough to see...he couldn't have played his normal amount , the way he plays off of just 1 practice.

this month the knicks have been for the most part without Lee (their best rebounder) JC (their 2nd leading scorer and #2 assist guy) and richardson (their most consistent and best small forward and the only small forward on the roster with a jumpshot) and Curry has suffered for it , it has enabled the other teams to go at him much harder with double teams and pressure.

Travis outlaw doesn't get to gear up and jump as high as he can on Curry hook shots with either Q or JC on the floor, because he wouldn't be able to leave them like that...and if he did leave he would get burned big time because both players are good outside shooters when left alone.

balkman and lee are an energy duo , its something that cant be sustained because teams usually adapt but usually can get results right away, its not like either of them are scorers so teams tend to get involved in a scrummed up game but eventually they just pressure the scorers more making the game harder and lower scoring in general even though both are relatively high tempo players.


i think if you left Lee and balkman on the court for 30 minutes a game you would get a lot of double doubles...i think if you had the luxury of replacing balkman with richardson or crawford it would lead to more wins...and in reality jeffries is still a better player than balkman...if only becuase he is more consistent, a better man defender and still much smarter about the chances he takes...How many times does balkman try to sneak around defenders , and miss or commit the foul ..it happens alot.

balkman probably will wind up being a far better player than jeffries because in the games he plays well , he is often a game changing influence ...but he isn't yet.


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## Truknicksfan (Mar 25, 2005)

> and in reality jeffries is still a better player than balkman


I disagree. I think positive things happen when balkman is on the floor while nothing positive comes out when jefferies is out there.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*Knicks Lost this Cleveland Game (69th) at the Start of the first quarter. 
The samething happen this season at the Denver Brawl.*

*I been skeptical about all the Knicks Injuries this season,* these Knick-Players canceled this season a player at a time, game after game. And when Isiah Thomas got that extension it became official over half the players on the roster refuse to give Isiah any effort at WINNING. 

Coach Isiah Thomas first LOST this Knick team and a bunch of its players when his POOR Coaching Effort started that Denver Brawl (by adding Jefferies in the starting lineup for 30 MPG). 
Coach Isiah Thomas musical chair starting lineup adding (Coach) FAVORITISM Player Jared Jefferies in the starting lineup when Jefferies was not supposed to be included in the rotation (This started two games before the Denver Brawl), caused havoc amongst the Knick players playingtime with certain teammates. As the games went on from game after game with Coach Isiah not paying any attention to the abrupt Flaws that Jefferies playingtime was causing to the TEAM, and the players that was playing with chemistry on this team only made alot of Knick Players unhappy. 

It was plain as day that when Jared Jefferies came off the injured List Q.Richardson stop playing defense, and applying unearthly tactics on offense (his back started acting up again) to be replaced on the day to day injured list. 

The Knick Team and its players took a whole new turn when Jared Jefferies came off the injured list and received 30 MPG as a Knick Starter. 
Taking the BEST Knick-Player Mr. David Lee out of the Starting Lineup when his early presence and above 30 minutes performance showed big signs of Knick-Promise had to upset alot of Knick-Players and practically all the Knick-Fans (just because Jefferies came off the injured list). David Lee was this Knick-Team 2006-7 MVP. What happen next:
Francis went on vacation, Q.Rich went back to last season performance, Crawford went fools selfish-NUT, Curry forgot that he had 9-straight double-doubles, Balkman & Nate went to the far ends of the bench, Channing Frye gave up hustling because the Coach first gave his offensive position (and Center playingtime) to Curry, and now to Jefferies & Curry to share. 

Marbury laid back attitude sitting on the FENCE of Player & Coach did not help one bit because little be said, he still is the Players Leader on and off the court with the organization. He should've demanded that David Lee STAY in the Starting lineup!!!


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