# Still think Morrison won't declare?



## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

This guy is money! He carried Gonzaga on his back last night as the rest of their team looked like deer in headlights. He is definitely the best player I have seen in the tournament and he reminds me of Larry Bird.


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## white360 (Apr 24, 2004)

3 Adam Morrison, F
Height/Weight: 6-8/205
Birthplace: Spokane, WA
Team: Gonzaga Bulldogs
Class: Sophomore 

GP MIN/G PTS/G REB/G AST/G FG % 
29 33.9 18.5 5.4 2.8 49.4


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

As long as he doesn't think he can play SG. He will be a decent SF in the league, but please don't insult Larry Legend by comparing Morrison to him.


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## white360 (Apr 24, 2004)

There will never be another Larry The Legend, just like Lebron isn't the next Jordan


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## lalooska (Jan 17, 2004)

He's more Larry Hagman than Larry Bird. He's uncoordinated and slow with a great shooting touch. The same resume as the other Bulldog-alums.... Dickau and Frahm.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

mediocre man said:


> As long as he doesn't think he can play SG. He will be a deent SF in the league, but please don't insult Larry Legend by comparing Morrison to him.


I didn't say that he's as good as Bird, but he definitely reminds me of him. His offense is terrific, inside and out.


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## NateBishop3 (Jul 22, 2003)

Honestly, comparing players to other players is a waste of time. Style and talent is usually unique, and almost impossible to compare. 

What I DO think you can compare is that special "it" that a lot of the best players have had over the years. MJ had it, Larry had it, Magic had it, and I can definitely see it in LeBron. The scary part is, I've seen it in Bassy as well.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

NateBishop3 said:


> Honestly, comparing players to other players is a waste of time. Style and talent is usually unique, and almost impossible to compare.
> 
> What I DO think you can compare is that special "it" that a lot of the best players have had over the years. MJ had it, Larry had it, Magic had it, and I can definitely see it in LeBron. The scary part is, I've seen it in Bassy as well.


I see the "it" factor in Morrison. I don't see it in Telfair.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

white360 said:


> 3 Adam Morrison, F
> Height/Weight: 6-8/205
> Birthplace: Spokane, WA
> Team: Gonzaga Bulldogs
> ...


sweet, he's a spokanite!

anyone else think he looks a lot better with shorter hair? I mean, with long hair, he looks like one of those punks who we all know and dislike.

you long haired hippy person!


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

tlong said:


> I see the "it" factor in Morrison. I don't see it in Telfair.


but you do in Jefferson...


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## furball (Jul 25, 2004)

lalooska said:


> He's more Larry Hagman than Larry Bird. He's uncoordinated and slow with a great shooting touch. The same resume as the other Bulldog-alums.... Dickau and Frahm.


That actually sounds like Bird :clown:


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

Hap said:


> but you do in Jefferson...


I think Jefferson will have a more productive career in the NBA than Telfair.


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## white360 (Apr 24, 2004)

Don't matter how the hair is, if can play


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

tlong said:


> I think Jefferson will have a more productive career in the NBA than Telfair.


He might, but thats really not the point. It depends on how he works with the Trail Blazers (and how the team does). Not how he does compared to Jefferson. 

Besides, just because you think Jefferson will have a more productive career, doesn't mean he will. It's too early to tell.


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## white360 (Apr 24, 2004)

Who's Jefferson ?


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

white360 said:


> Who's Jefferson ?


Al Jefferson. He's a power forward that was selected at #14 by the Celtics.


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## white360 (Apr 24, 2004)

Thos guy then


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

tlong said:


> I see the "it" factor in Morrison. I don't see it in Telfair.


This goes to the crux of the "it" issue: it's purely subjective.

Before they "prove" they have "it", it's impossible to prove. After they win a bunch, it's irrelevant. 

Does Rasheed Wallace have "it"? Does Kevin Garnett? I don't see how it really matters.

Ed O.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

Ed O said:


> This goes to the crux of the "it" issue: it's purely subjective.
> 
> Before they "prove" they have "it", it's impossible to prove. After they win a bunch, it's irrelevant.
> 
> ...



True dat. However, I believe this is why Nash picked Telfair.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

with the short hair he is just another basketball player, the hair you see Adam Morrison!


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Morrison best player in the country and he's a sophmore...... :banana:


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## RipCity9 (Jan 30, 2004)

zagsfan20 said:


> Morrison best player in the country and he's a sophmore...... :banana:



Meanwhile, back on planet Earth..........


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

RipCity9 said:


> Meanwhile, back on planet Earth..........


Watch a couple of Gonzaga games, and then get back to me......


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

mediocre man said:


> As long as he doesn't think he can play SG. He will be a decent SF in the league, but please don't insult Larry Legend by comparing Morrison to him.


i think with his handle there is no question he can play the 2g. as much as his style resembles larry legend i think his mid range game reminds me of reggie miller. i think if he gets a promise from portland or indiana he just may come out. he's a clear cut lottery pick either this year or next.


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

Bogut is the best player in the NCAA, not Morrison


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

ThatBlazerGuy said:


> Bogut is the best player in the NCAA, not Morrison


Some could make that case.....But i beg differ......


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Some could make that case.....But i beg differ......


not that you're biased or anything...


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## bbAlvin (Jun 6, 2003)

NateBishop3 said:


> What I DO think you can compare is that special "it" that a lot of the best players have had over the years. The scary part is, I've seen it in Bassy as well.


Please dont take this the wrong way, as I like your insights. But what are you basing this on, because he hasnt demonstrated the "it" quality in any games--at least to me. He's had moments where he's looked very good, but never once in a generation special. I'm assuming you must see it in practice, where I'm sure he plays more at ease, more his natural game.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Hap said:


> not that you're biased or anything...


Nope, not biased at all! :angel:


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

Their is absolutley no way Morrison is the best player in the NCAA. None what-so-ever. Yes, he is a top 10 player, but Bogut is clearly better. He led a terrible team to a 6th seed, and has averaged over 20 points and 10 rebounds despite constant double and triple teams.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Morrison isn't just a shooter (although he is fantastic at it). The kid can flat-out score. He can split double teams and penetrate for an easy layup. Although he isn't that athletic, he is a decent defender. Combine those attributes with his shooting ability (especially his 18-20 footer) with tremendous form on his shot, he has all the tools to become a star in this league. By the way, he reminds me more of Drazen Petrovic than Larry Bird. Another good comparison is Chris Mullin.


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

I just dont want us to draft a guy like Morrison with a top 6 pick. 

Yes, he played very well in college. But, he just seems like one of those players that flame out in the pros.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

well, since Gonzaga got a taste of reality today...I bet morrison stays so he can have another taste of it next year.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

*Well now all we have to do is wait....*

to learn what Adam Morrision will do, considering they lost.


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## white360 (Apr 24, 2004)

*Re: Well now all we have to do is wait....*

Blazer should not be going for Morrison


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Hap said:


> well, since Gonzaga got a taste of reality today...I bet morrison stays so he can have another taste of it next year.


Way to get em while their down hap :wink: 

Morrison will be back.... You have to remember Turiaf was the only senior on the team that got significant minutes.....We have a youthful team....

Free throws killed us, but i bet you dont know that because you probably didnt watch the game....


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

*Re: Well now all we have to do is wait....*



white360 said:


> Blazer should not be going for Morrison


especially since he's not coming out this year....


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

ThatBlazerGuy said:


> I just dont want us to draft a guy like Morrison with a top 6 pick.
> 
> Yes, he played very well in college. But, he just seems like one of those players that flame out in the pros.


I know what you mean. Morrison seems a bit like a Luke Jackson / Josh Childress type.


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: Well now all we have to do is wait....*



zagsfan20 said:


> especially since he's not coming out this year....


says the die hard Zags fanatic...


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Minstrel said:


> I know what you mean. Morrison seems a bit like a Luke Jackson / Josh Childress type.


In what way?


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

Ed O said:


> This goes to the crux of the "it" issue: it's purely subjective.
> 
> Before they "prove" they have "it", it's impossible to prove. After they win a bunch, it's irrelevant.
> 
> ...


In the words of Abe Simpson - I used to be with it, but then they changed what 'it' was. Now, what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

I see Mickael Gelabele is now being predicted in the first round.....

I wouldnt be opposed to taking him if we can trade for another 1st rounder.....


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Way to get em while their down hap :wink:
> 
> Morrison will be back.... You have to remember Turiaf was the only senior on the team that got significant minutes.....We have a youthful team....
> 
> Free throws killed us, but i bet you dont know that because you probably didnt watch the game....


actually I did watch the game. They lost because they aren't that good of a team.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> In what way?


In that he does everything well enough to star at the college level, but I'm far from convinced that he does anything well enough to be a top NBA player.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Hap said:


> actually I did watch the game. They lost because they aren't that good of a team.


Since you watched the game did you realize that we lost the game at the foul line.....?

And I'm sure Kansas, Syracuse, Alabama and Oklahoma aren't that good of teams either...right?

We'll be back next year.....


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Minstrel said:


> In that he does everything well enough to star at the college level, but I'm far from convinced that he does anything well enough to be a top NBA player.


Same case could be made for Larry Bird right?......

I think anytime their is a great white college basketball player, people write them off as only being good college players.....Morrison is just a sophmore, he still has a couple more years to improve his game even more....

Morrison is just a sophmore and could take over games by himself....I'm not sure that Luke Jackson or Childress ever did that as sophmores.....

And you can't write off Jackson and Childress as busts yet either, its their rookie years and Jackson has been injured pretty much the entire season....


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Since you watched the game did you realize that we lost the game at the foul line.....?


a loss is a loss. They shouldn't have even had free throws be an *issue*. they were up by 13, and the run coincided a lot with turnovers.



> And I'm sure Kansas, Syracuse, Alabama and Oklahoma aren't that good of teams either...right?


no, they aren't. They lost. 



> We'll be back next year.....


ANd they might eb with Morrison, and they might not be. But they won't win the big dance next year either.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Same case could be made for Larry Bird right?......


wow..you really didn't go there, did you?

I mean, really, you didn't just go there, did you?



> I think anytime their is a great white college basketball player, people write them off as only being good college players.....


I think thats mostly because how many of the white players who are "good" in college, have turned out to be good in the NBA in the last 10 years? 4?

(Laettner, Googs, KVH and um..)



> Morrison is just a sophmore, he still has a couple more years to improve his game even more....
> 
> Morrison is just a sophmore and could take over games by himself....I'm not sure that Luke Jackson or Childress ever did that as sophmores.....


I dont know about Childress, but I dont think Jackson did. He was the 3rd player on the team (behind Ridnour and Jones). Ask a duck fan, and I'm sure they'd be able to say one way or another.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> a loss is a loss. They shouldn't have even had free throws be an *issue*. they were up by 13, and the run coincided a lot with turnovers


I didnt see too many turnovers, it was more of poor shot selection from young college players....Missed free throws cost them the game.....Texas Tech made theirs and Gonzaga missed theirs....period.



> no, they aren't. They lost.


Its a little foolish to label a team as not being very good, because they lost one game in a tournament.....Stuff happens...

There was no undefeated team this year, I guess there was no good teams....



> ANd they might eb with Morrison, and they might not be. But they won't win the big dance next year either.


This year was looked at as a rebuilding year coming into the season and then everyone got overwhelmed with the upset wins against Georgia Tech, Washington and Oklahoma St.

I see no reason why a team with experience under their belt can't win it all next year....


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Same case could be made for Larry Bird right?......


Right, except shooting, passing and dribbling which Bird was utterly dominant at, as he led his team to the NCAA Championship Game. Morrison doesn't remotely compare to a Larry Bird. He'll be lucky to be Wally Szczerbiak.



> I think anytime their is a great white college basketball player, people write them off as only being good college players.....


Yes, like that white guy with the cool afro that I used as one of my comparables, Josh Childress.

Meanwhile, I think Bogut will be a tremendous NBA player. But mostly because he's black.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Hap said:


> wow..you really didn't go there, did you?
> 
> I mean, really, you didn't just go there, did you?
> 
> ...



I did go there......I did.....Wow i really did go there.....


point exactly about Jackson and Childress, they couldnt single handedly take over games their sophmore seasons.....


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> I didnt see too many turnovers, it was more of poor shot selection from young college players....Missed free throws cost them the game.....Texas Tech made theirs and Gonzaga missed theirs....period.


I remember 4 straight turnovers by Gonzaga, leading to 9 points (iirc).



> Its a little foolish to label a team as not being very good, because they lost one game in a tournament.....Stuff happens...


not to good team who are supposed to be able to win titles...



> There was no undefeated team this year, I guess there was no good teams....


regular season = not the same as the tourny



> This year was looked at as a rebuilding year coming into the season and then everyone got overwhelmed with the upset wins against Georgia Tech, Washington and Oklahoma St.
> 
> I see no reason why a team with experience under their belt can't win it all next year....


hahah..I hate to break this to you, but they're a gimmick team.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> I did go there......I did.....Wow i really did go there.....


seriously man. If you want to say Morrison is staying, fine. If you want to say that Gonzaga is seriously in the hunt to win the title next year, fine.

but to have the audacity to even compare Morrison to Bird (even in the vague way you did) shows a fundemental lack of knowledge when it comes to Larry Bird.

The dude *averaged* 30 ppg in his college career. 

That means he averaged a WHOLE lot more than 18 ppg his sophomore year. 

Adam Morrison would be lucky to be ever as good as Larry Bird in his last year in the league. 



> point exactly about Jackson and Childress, they couldnt single handedly take over games their sophmore seasons.....


not really, because I don't know if they did or not. I'm sure Mas Rip City (or other Duck fans) would know. I wouldn't.

Larrys college stats


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> Right, except shooting, passing and dribbling which Bird was utterly dominant at, as he led his team to the NCAA Championship Game. Morrison doesn't remotely compare to a Larry Bird. He'll be lucky to be Wally Szczerbiak.


Right except Larry Bird did all this as a senior and Morrison is only a sophmore who still has time to do it.....

Morrison is a dominate shooter, a good dribbler (although it doesnt look pretty), and an above average passer.....



> Yes, like that white guy with the cool afro that I used as one of my comparables, Josh Childress.


I wasnt referring to you and Josh Childress, i was referring to people in general....


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Hap said:


> not really, because I don't know if they did or not. I'm sure Mas Rip City (or other Duck fans) would know. I wouldn't.


Childress took over games for Stanford. He was their top player and Stanford tended to go as Childress went. He led them to one of the great college regular seasons, last year. Almost pulling off the undefeated season.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Right except Larry Bird did all this as a senior and Morrison is only a sophmore who still has time to do it.....
> 
> Morrison is a dominate shooter


Morrison is no more dominant a shooter than many, many recent college players. Trajan Langdon was even more dominant shooter and did nothing in the pros. Really, the recent Morrison-like player who did the best was Wally Szczerbiak. Most of the others (good shooting forwards who aren't dominant at anything and don't possess impressive inside games) haven't fared well.

I would absolutely not risk a lottery pick on Morrison. Maybe he'll prove me wrong, but I think the risk of his being nothing more than a role-player is too high.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> not to good team who are supposed to be able to win titles...


Help me refresh my memory as to when these 4 straight turnovers were and who made them......? I dont have any recollection to such a thing....

Unless of course you count a stupid shot attempt as a turnover.....



> not to good team who are supposed to be able to win titles...


A young team, making young mistakes, many people considered this a rebuilding year.....

Kansas and Syracuse were suppose to win a title just as much as Gonzaga....



> regular season = not the same as the tourny


I know that is where veteran experience helps out, besides Turiaf we didnt have that this year.....



> hahah..I hate to break this to you, but they're a gimmick team.


Gimmick team? a small team, from a small conference, who recruits as well as anyone else and has the most wins in the last 5 years in college basketball.....

The sky is the limit for Gonzaga basketball.....


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Hap said:


> seriously man. If you want to say Morrison is staying, fine. If you want to say that Gonzaga is seriously in the hunt to win the title next year, fine.
> 
> but to have the audacity to even compare Morrison to Bird (even in the vague way you did) shows a fundemental lack of knowledge when it comes to Larry Bird.
> 
> ...


If points per game were what made a college basketball player great then Larry Bird would win the prize, but there is sooo many other factors....


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> If points per game were what made a college basketball player great then Larry Bird would win the prize, but there is sooo many other factors....


of which Larry Bird had, and Adam Morrison doesn't.


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## RickyBlaze (Apr 25, 2003)

I think thats mostly because how many of the white players who are "good" in college, have turned out to be good in the NBA in the last 10 years? 4?

(Laettner, Googs, KVH and um..)

um.... SCZERZERZERBIAK!

EDIT: ****, Quote didn't work...meh. ^^^BY HAP


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Help me refresh my memory as to when these 4 straight turnovers were and who made them......? I dont have any recollection to such a thing....
> 
> Unless of course you count a stupid shot attempt as a turnover.....
> 
> ...


and they, like Gonzaga, didn't. Why? because they aren't that good.



> Gimmick team? a small team, from a small conference, who recruits as well as anyone else and has the most wins in the last 5 years in college basketball.....


and how many appearances in the final 4...



> The sky is the limit for Gonzaga basketball.....


yah, if the sky is "several notches below the championship"


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## RP McMurphy (Jul 17, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> If points per game were what made a college basketball player great then Larry Bird would win the prize, but there is sooo many other factors....


:krazy:


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Hap said:


> of which Larry Bird had, and Adam Morrison doesn't.


Freeman Williams averaged like 30 ppg in college and he never turned out to be a great pro....There is much more to look at then just scoring....


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Minstrel said:


> Childress took over games for Stanford. He was their top player and Stanford tended to go as Childress went. He led them to one of the great college regular seasons, last year. Almost pulling off the undefeated season.


According to Hap, that doesnt mean anything that they went undefeated because they didnt do diddily in the tournament....

He was a junior when he did that and I think Morrison has the ability to do that next year as well....


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Freeman Williams averaged like 30 ppg in college and he never turned out to be a great pro....There is much more to look at then just scoring....



seriously man, you are not going to win this argument. You cannot compare Adam Morrison to Larry Bird in college. You cannot even suggest that Morrison has anything close to what Bird had in college.

Did you even look at the link? The man was easily the best player in college in the late 70's.

Take of the Bulldog glasses man. Morrison simply isn't as good as you think he is, nor are the Bulldogs.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Hap said:


> and they, like Gonzaga, didn't. Why? because they aren't that good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I think todays game was the first Gonzaga game you watched all season.....Good teams lose in the tournament just ask last years Stanford team that nearly went undefeated or last years St. Joes team.....

The final four will come my friend, this is a young team.....

Its a pity that you make uneducated judgements about Gonzaga basketball when you have probably watched less than a handful of games all year.....

I know your doing this because you know it gets under my skin....

I will stick up for my Zags till the day I die, kind of like both of us will stick up for the Blazers as well.......


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Hap said:


> seriously man, you are not going to win this argument. You cannot compare Adam Morrison to Larry Bird in college. You cannot even suggest that Morrison has anything close to what Bird had in college.
> 
> Did you even look at the link? The man was easily the best player in college in the late 70's.
> 
> Take of the Bulldog glasses man. Morrison simply isn't as good as you think he is, nor are the Bulldogs.



Not as good yet, but he is the most comparible player since...

He is only a sophmore folks!


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> I think todays game was the first Gonzaga game you watched all season.....Good teams lose in the tournament just ask last years Stanford team that nearly went undefeated or last years St. Joes team.....


last years stanford team lost for the same reason gonzaga did and St Joes did. They weren't as good as their record implies. It's why Gonzaga hasn't ever made it to the final four (iirc). They aren't as good as people think they are.


> The final four will come my friend, this is a young team.....


they also aren't good enough to go to the final four. 


> Its a pity that you make uneducated judgements about Gonzaga basketball when you have probably watched less than a handful of games all year.....


doesn't change the fact they lost, does it?



> I know your doing this because you know it gets under my skin....


not really. If I was doing it to get under your skin, I wouldn't have taken the time to get info on Larry Birds college stats.

It's called being objective. Morrison is good, but he's not the best in college. And to try to associate him with Larry Bird is asinine. That ruins any credibility.



> I will stick up for my Zags till the day I die, kind of like both of us will stick up for the Blazers as well.......


no ones saying you shouldn't stick up for them. Just sprinkle in some objectivity once in a while. I like Ha, but I don't claim that he'll be an MVP candidate one day. or Telfair. 

Theres a reason why certain schools win the titles and others don't. They have more than 1 or 2 good players. They have 3 or 4. Duke won their titles because they had several good players who they could rely on.

St Joes didn't, because they had 2.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Not as good yet, but he is the most comparible player since...
> 
> He is only a sophmore folks!


he's not even clsoe to the most comparable player. Keith Van Horn averaged 19, 21, 21 and 22 ppg in college. He also averaged 8.3, 8.5 8.8 and 9.5 rebounds a game. I'd say Szcerbiak was more comporable too. 

Hell, Laettner had great stats too.

Hell, Luke Jackson can be compaired to Larry Bird more than Morrison.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

> last years stanford team lost for the same reason gonzaga did and St Joes did. They weren't as good as their record implies. It's why Gonzaga hasn't ever made it to the final four (iirc). They aren't as good as people think they are.


Thats BS.....If Gonzaga plays Texas Tech they win 8 out of 10 times....Teams have been notorious for knocking off better teams....Whether it be that they arnt prepared or are too confident....There is a thing called luck and when a team loses in a single elimination tournament game by 2 points due to free throws it doesnt make that team a bad team....



> Theres a reason why certain schools win the titles and others don't. They have more than 1 or 2 good players. They have 3 or 4. Duke won their titles because they had several good players who they could rely on.


Gonzaga has more then 1 or 2 good players....Watch a couple games, you'd realize that....


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Thats BS.....If Gonzaga plays Texas Tech they win 8 out of 10 times....Teams have been notorious for knocking off better teams....Whether it be that they arnt prepared or are too confident....There is a thing called luck and when a team loses in a single elimination tournament game by 2 points due to free throws it doesnt make that team a bad team....


good teams who can win the title, don't lose those games. 



> Gonzaga has more then 1 or 2 good players....Watch a couple games, you'd realize that....


and yet, they lost to a team they would've beaten 80% of the time..


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Stuff happens, thats why we play the games........ :whofarted


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Hap, I mostly agree with you on this thread, obviously, but you're taking way too hard a line on what a loss in the tourney means. A one-and-done format is inherently unstable and doesn't always (or even mostly) reward the best team. It's the ultimate in small sample size...anyone can lose any single game, even the best team.

If UNC or Illinois loses prior to the Final Four, it doesn't mean they weren't good enough to be championship-caliber, it just means they had a bad game at a bad time.

That said, Gonzaga in no way looked like a championship-caliber squad. They may have lost earlier than expected, but they weren't good enough to get much further (short of getting lucky and pulling an upset).


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Minstrel said:


> Hap, I mostly agree with you on this thread, obviously, but you're taking way too hard a line on what a loss in the tourney means. A one-and-done format is inherently unstable and doesn't always (or even mostly) reward the best team. It's the ultimate in small sample size...anyone can lose any single game, even the best team.
> 
> If UNC or Illinois loses prior to the Final Four, it doesn't mean they weren't good enough to be championship-caliber, it just means they had a bad game at a bad time.
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

on the bird vs. morrison comparisons i think that comes from morrison's shooting style and floppy hair. bird was a center in college. played in the paint and got most of his work done at the elbow on in. adam is pretty much a two guard who spends a lot of time helping bring the ball up the floor. morrison unlike guys like van horn and wally get shots off with guys draped all over him. we're not going to see another bird anytime soon but i'll tell you portland fans something, if you get a shot at him in the draft jump all over it, he's never stopped amazing people and it wont stop when he gets to the pros.


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## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

Minstrel said:


> Hap, I mostly agree with you on this thread, obviously, but you're taking way too hard a line on what a loss in the tourney means. A one-and-done format is inherently unstable and doesn't always (or even mostly) reward the best team. It's the ultimate in small sample size...anyone can lose any single game, even the best team.
> 
> If UNC or Illinois loses prior to the Final Four, it doesn't mean they weren't good enough to be championship-caliber, it just means they had a bad game at a bad time.



Very well said. Too many fans have a tendency to never give these kids any credit. If they win - it is because the other team sucked. If they lose - it is because *they* suck. No one ever deserves positive praise.

I call it sour grapes and bad sportsmanship.

As for Morrison - if he is smart, he will wait another year. He needs to expand his game and get into better shape. If he comes out now, he will be exposed in the private workouts and drop like a rock. This isn't to say he will *never* become an NBA caliber player - but he isn't there YET.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Just to answer Haps question back on like page 3 or 4, I do recall Luke Jackson taking over some games as a Soph. That was his 2nd best year as a duck. When we played SC and Stanford at home(back when both were the creme of the pac-10 crop), Luke would be the one to get the clutch hoop by driving in the paint and getting and 1's. IIRC, He also carried us past Texas into the Elite 8.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

MAS RipCity said:


> Just to answer Haps question back on like page 3 or 4, I do recall Luke Jackson taking over some games as a Soph. That was his 2nd best year as a duck. When we played SC and Stanford at home(back when both were the creme of the pac-10 crop), Luke would be the one to get the clutch hoop by driving in the paint and getting and 1's. IIRC, He also carried us past Texas into the Elite 8.


Are you sure your not mistaking Luke Jackson with Luke Ridnour?......Jackson made some clutch shots, but never single handedly controlled a game....

That win against Texas was in part to Freddie Jones' clutch jumpers and Anthony Levers three pointers....I dont remember Jackson carrying the Ducks past Texas....


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> Are you sure your not mistaking Luke Jackson with Luke Ridnour?......Jackson made some clutch shots, but never single handedly controlled a game....
> 
> That win against Texas was in part to Freddie Jones' clutch jumpers and Anthony Levers three pointers....I dont remember Jackson carrying the Ducks past Texas....


No IIRC, Freddie played a really bad game vs Texas..I remember this because he was the one wh oscored 30 in the loss to Kansas, we could never get all 3 on the same page in the tounrey. Ridnour took over most of the games his junior year. We went to Jackson a lot in the clutch when we needed hoops.


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## Tince (Jul 11, 2004)

MAS RipCity said:


> No IIRC, Freddie played a really bad game vs Texas..I remember this because he was the one wh oscored 30 in the loss to Kansas, we could never get all 3 on the same page in the tounrey. Ridnour took over most of the games his junior year. We went to Jackson a lot in the clutch when we needed hoops.


Jones hit THE clutch shot, but Jackson had a great game. His junior year was a slight step backwards, mainly due to injuries. Then his senior year raised his stock higher than ever.


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

Freddie Jones scored only 2 points against Texas, they just happened to be the two most important of the game. Jackson had 25 points and Ridnour 20.


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## Tince (Jul 11, 2004)

Spoolie Gee said:


> Freddie Jones scored only 2 points against Texas, they just happened to be the two most important of the game. Jackson had 25 points and Ridnour 20.


I think he scored 4 points.


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

Yup it was 4. He had no points in the first half and really struggled the entire game but came up clutch at the end like he has so many times that year. Jackson and Ridnour definitely carried them that game as sophomores.


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

Ah thanks guys, your right. I do recall Freddie hitting that shot, but he was practically invisable the entire game.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Oldmangrouch said:


> Very well said. Too many fans have a tendency to never give these kids any credit. If they win - it is because the other team sucked. If they lose - it is because *they* suck. No one ever deserves positive praise.
> 
> I call it sour grapes and bad sportsmanship.
> 
> As for Morrison - if he is smart, he will wait another year. He needs to expand his game and get into better shape. If he comes out now, he will be exposed in the private workouts and drop like a rock. This isn't to say he will *never* become an NBA caliber player - but he isn't there YET.


if he stays at gonzaga is wont be so much to expand his game it will be to be a student and lead the zags. i dont know if his game can get much better. if you check what he did against the illinois,washingtons,okla states and texas techs of the world you see he played his best ball and averaged about 23 pts a game against those teams. keep in mind we're talking a 6-8 guy who has an inside game an outside game and a great mid range game.forget the nba caliber player this kid is a great player.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Morrison just had an interview with Greg Heister and said that it will be a big loss when they practice next year and Turiaf won't be in Spokane anymore....


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## MAS RipCity (Feb 22, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> Morrison just had an interview with Greg Heister and said that it will be a big loss when they practice next year and Turiaf won't be in Spokane anymore....


Ah the always loveable "I may be staying hint." Lord only knows how many times I have heard those by athletes, in which many times they are just ploys to make good with the local media. Half the time it is legit and theo ther half they don't mean it and will just bolt. I know you have a huge man crush on Morrison, but if he gets a promise that he'll go top 10, he will go. Right now I think it's 50/50 if he will stay or not.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

MAS RipCity said:


> Ah the always loveable "I may be staying hint." Lord only knows how many times I have heard those by athletes, in which many times they are just ploys to make good with the local media. Half the time it is legit and theo ther half they don't mean it and will just bolt. I know you have a huge man crush on Morrison, but if he gets a promise that he'll go top 10, he will go. Right now I think it's 50/50 if he will stay or not.


He's not even testing the waters......He'll be back at Gonzaga......Get over it everyone!


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## QRICH (Feb 2, 2004)

....... says the 'Zags fanatic


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

rainman said:


> if he stays at gonzaga is wont be so much to expand his game it will be to be a student and lead the zags. i dont know if his game can get much better. if you check what he did against the illinois,washingtons,okla states and texas techs of the world you see he played his best ball and averaged about 23 pts a game against those teams. keep in mind we're talking a 6-8 guy who has an inside game an outside game and a great mid range game.forget the nba caliber player this kid is a great player.


It looks like he can improve his perimeter shooting. He's known as a fantastic shooter, and he certainly LOOKS like one from what I've seen, but he only hit 37 of 119 3 pointers he took (31%).

Compare that to what guys like Ray Allen or Wally Szczerbiak or Luke Jackson or Casey Jacobsen shot in college, and it's clear that at least statistically he has one big area he can work on. As sophomores, those four guys shot 44.5, 46.3, 40.0, and 47.2 percent respectively.

Ed O.


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## tlong (Jan 6, 2003)

I believe Morrison will stay in school since they lost in the 2nd round. If they would have won a couple more games he would have come out, but losing early has kept his market value down in my opinion. I still think he's going to be a good one though. Gonzaga is going nowhere until they get a decent point guard. Raivio is just the latest in Gonzaga's string of point guards that choke when they get to the NCAA playoffs.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

tlong said:


> I believe Morrison will stay in school since they lost in the 2nd round. If they would have won a couple more games he would have come out, but losing early has kept his market value down in my opinion. I still think he's going to be a good one though. Gonzaga is going nowhere until they get a decent point guard. Raivio is just the latest in Gonzaga's string of point guards that choke when they get to the NCAA playoffs.


I assume you're talking about Dickau? Maybe Blake Stepp? I don't think there's any comparison.

Raivio sucks far more than those two. This current team has 10x the talent Dickau had to work with and they still did better back in the day. If Dickau had Adam Morrison and Ronny Turiaf to work with, I guarantee they'd have at least a final four appearance.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Do you guys even watch Gonzaga basketball or are you all just spouting off uneducated information?.......

Raivio is putting up better numbers then both Dickau and Santangelo did when they were both Sophmores.....Sure Derek didnt play well in his FIRST TWO NCAA tournament games he's ever played in......He will be back next year with his 3 point bombs and his very low A/T ratio.....

Theres a reason why he scored 21 against Washinton, 21 against Georgia Tech, both teams with one of the best guards in the nation.....

NCAA tournament confidence will come with the experience.....


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

zagsfan20 said:


> Do you guys even watch Gonzaga basketball or are you all just spouting off uneducated information?
> 
> .......
> 
> He will be back next year with his 3 point bombs and his very low A/T ratio.....


I thought he actually had a pretty good assist to turnover ratio. Maybe it's just my uneducated information, though.



> NCAA tournament confidence will come with the experience.....


I dunno. They are stuck in a wimpy conference and they can play the toughest preseason schedule in the world and the edge will be gone by tourney time. Further, while it's possible that their recruiting will stay relatively strong, they're going to miss out on top-tier players who simply aren't interested in going to Spokane and are more interested in playing regularly against top-level schools rather than the WCC.

Ed O.


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

Is there any way Gonzaga could sneak into the PAC10? It would probably help out both parties a great deal...


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

pac12


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

Blazer Ringbearer said:


> Is there any way Gonzaga could sneak into the PAC10? It would probably help out both parties a great deal...


If the Pac-10 were more like the Big East, it would be more likely. As it is, though, all ten teams in the Pac-10 are football schools, and that makes them taking a small pacific NW school (even if it evolves into a basketball powerhouse) pretty unlikely.

The Big East is able to absorb much of Conference USA because they already have several schools that don't play football... Marquette and company join Georgtown while Louisville and the others will compete against Syracuse and BC.

It seems the closest the Pac-10 got to expanding recently was when there were rumors of Colorado joining several years back... BYU and perhaps a California school like Fresno State seem like the most likely candidates to me if the conference decides to expand.

Ed O.


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## Blazer Ringbearer (Jan 28, 2003)

Interesting...

Seems like it would be in Gonzaga's best interests to start building a football program, as well as other sports. I would think they have enough money coming in as a private school with a lot of basketball revenue to get that going. I see no reason why they couldn't build up a program over time if they were committed to doing so...

But yeah, just looking online at how few sports Gonzaga plays, I can see why the PAC 10 isn't lining up to bring them into the league.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Ed O said:


> It looks like he can improve his perimeter shooting. He's known as a fantastic shooter, and he certainly LOOKS like one from what I've seen, but he only hit 37 of 119 3 pointers he took (31%).
> 
> Compare that to what guys like Ray Allen or Wally Szczerbiak or Luke Jackson or Casey Jacobsen shot in college, and it's clear that at least statistically he has one big area he can work on. As sophomores, those four guys shot 44.5, 46.3, 40.0, and 47.2 percent respectively.
> 
> Ed O.


unlike the guys you mentioned morrison can create his own shot. he can stand to improve his 3pt shot but that wouldnt concern me that much. unlike those that like to compare him to some other white guy i see him as a reggie miller type because of his mid range game. i actually hope he stays in school for another year.


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

rainman said:


> unlike the guys you mentioned morrison can create his own shot.


Wrong. All of those guys could create their own shots in college.



> he can stand to improve his 3pt shot but that wouldnt concern me that much.


You said he can't improve, I think. Clearly he can improve. 31% from college threes is Darius Miles-level shooting, and that won't get it done in the NBA for a player like Morrison.

Ed O.


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## Dan (Dec 30, 2002)

rainman said:


> unlike the guys you mentioned morrison can create his own shot


I don't know about the other guys, but if there's one thing thats true about Luke Jackson (in college)..it's that he could create his own shot. Infact, it's one of his best attributes.



> he can stand to improve his 3pt shot but that wouldnt concern me that much.


I think he has to improve his 3 point shot, significantly.


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

Ed O said:


> Wrong. All of those guys could create their own shots in college.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you put up a quote where i say "he can stand to improve his 3 pt shot" and then you say i said he cant improve. you'll have to explain. i never viewed guys like wally and jacobsen(i'll omit ray allen and luke jackson) as guys that could create their own shots. they need screens or having the ball rotated to them when they're open. i'm really not trying to convince anyone about adam morrison, i actually hope he stays at GU. i will say that if he does declare and the blazers happen to draft him the same people on this site that have a problem with him will be calling him the second coming of larry bird. funny how that works.


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