# Sheed's teams have won three playoff series without HCA and have NEVER lost...



## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

.....a series WITH HCA.

Can anyone think of any player in the league whose teams can claim the same or better?


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## Playmaker0017 (Feb 13, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> .....a series WITH HCA.
> 
> Can anyone think of any player in the league whose teams can claim the same or better?


Okay - Rasheed is the best player EVER! 

The Blazers let him slip away. He could have single handedly brought a championship team to Portland.

Now, the past is the past. It's over. He's gone.

Play.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

I asked a question. I'm looking for a real answer. I didn't say he was the best player ever. But I'm curious... is there anyone who can match Sheed on that accomplishment? I'm thinking.... It's really hard to think of a player who has never lost with HCA. I think you have to go back to Michael Jordan (also a Tar Heel) to come up with someone.


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## Stevenson (Aug 23, 2003)

shhhhhhh already

no one cares


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

If you don't care, then don't click on the thread, and PLEASE don't respond.

If you DO care, I'm curious. Is there any other player who has done that who is currently in the NBA?

I don't care about half the threads on this message board so I don't read them. Remember, when you respond to a thread, you bump it up for more people to read.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

*Re: Re: Sheed's teams have won three playoff series without HCA and have NEVER lost...*



> Originally posted by <b>Playmaker0017</b>!
> Okay - Rasheed is the best player EVER!
> 
> The Blazers let him slip away. He could have single handedly brought a championship team to Portland.
> ...


But wait... he's a free agent! We can get him back!

Of course, that might make the team a little unbalanced. 
Maybe Sheed could play SG?

barfo


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Sheed is a better center than Theo in every respect. Theo would come off pine.


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

Yeah, people don't like to be reminded that the Sheed hatred was misplaced...

It _is_ an interesting question and a tough one to answer. There's probably been a fringe player somewhere along the line that was on a team with HCA in the first round and won, but never played another series. That would be mighty tough to research.

Dan


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

But that wouldn't answer the question, Dkap.

I'm looking for a person that has never lost with HCA (easy to find) but has ALSO won THREE TIMES without HCA (less easy to find, especially in conjunction with the first condition.)

The point is that Sheed's teams have overachieved in the playoffs THREE TIMES but have NEVER underachieved. Duncan's teams have overachieved. Shaq' and Kobe's teams have too. Then you look at Webber. His teams have underachieved and NEVER overachieved.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> I asked a question. I'm looking for a real answer. I didn't say he was the best player ever. But I'm curious... is there anyone who can match Sheed on that accomplishment? I'm thinking.... It's really hard to think of a player who has never lost with HCA. I think you have to go back to Michael Jordan (also a Tar Heel) to come up with someone.


From where does this question spark from? Is it because you so whole heartedly believed we could win a title up until the very last game that we were officially eliminated? Are you just trying to justify that he was the center piece to our success? Or are you just trying to get a reaction out of everyone? Give it a rest, 'Sheed's gone and there's nothing realistic we can do about it now that would bring him back. I'm glad he got his ring, he's a great player but his time in Portland was up and everyone knew it. Maybe if there weren't so many threads that are 'trolling' in nature (EI: Here ) you could get an honest response from somebody if it indeed is a genuine question.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Why do people question the nature of my questions instead of answering them?

When I polled people about when our title run would end, almost no one could answer it without attacking me.

I'm asking a SIMPLE question. Either you have an answer or you don't. Don't attack me for asking the question.

And how was that other thread, TROLLING? It was the just the realization that I had had yesterday that we drafted Qyntel Woods ahead of Prince. When I realized that, I shared that point by starting that thread. That's all. If you don't like my threads, don't respond and they will fall to the bottom. If you respond to my threads merely to put me down, you accomplish nothing. The discussion turns into a fight and the thread never goes away.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

I know I'm going to regret this question, but what does HCA stand for. Also, this should have been an OT: question because HE NO LONGER PLAYS FOR THE BLAZERS. the forum in which you posted it. At least edit it so the word Blazer or Portland appears in the thread.

Nevermind it's home court advantage. I just figured it out.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Home Court Advantage.

And this thread is NOT off topic. The thread is about Sheed's teams. Sheed's teams include the BLAZERS. ONE of the series he won without HCA was when the BLAZERS beat the JAZZ in 1999. Also, his Blazers teams NEVER lost with HCA. This fact about Sheed includes more of his time with the Blazers than it does with the Pistons. 

Why must the word Blazer or Portland appear in the thread? Please scroll down and look at all the threads that don't have Blazer or Portland in the thread. Must those all be listed as "OT"?


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## Stevenson (Aug 23, 2003)

I can't believe that William Shakespeare gets credit for writing all those plays. Everyone knows that Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford, was the actual author.

And what about the election of 1812? James Madison should never have beaten DeWitt Clinton of New York. 

What, you don't care about these alleged controversies? Well guess what, neither do we care about yours.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

"We don't care"? You speak for who? Your family? Everyone? And do you usually spend your day clicking on and responding to posts you don't care about, a practice which only serves to bump this thread back to the top?


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Furthermore, are you a real Blazer fan?

Why do you not care that we never lost a playoff series in which we had HCA during Sheed's tenure here? Why do you not care that we beat the Jazz without HCA in 1999?


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## Stevenson (Aug 23, 2003)

You MUST be someone's little brother


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Why do you continue to presume stuff about me? First you tell me that I don't care about your facts about Shakespeare and Madison. Now, you tell me that I'm someone's little brother. Don't presume stuff about me. In fact, let's not make this thread about me. Let's make this thread bout answering my question or not posting. Please.

Thank you.


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## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> Furthermoe, are you a real Blazer fan?
> 
> Why do you not care that we never lost a playoff series in which we had HCA during Sheed's tenure here? Why do you not care that we beat the Jazz without HCA in 1999?


Personally, I don't care because he's no longer with the team. How is it relevant to the future of the franchise? Do you want to bring him back? That's an honest question to you, NathanLane. Do you think we should sign and trade for him? He's not here anymore and it's not relevant to the future or the present of the franchise, I don't take it as reminising of all the 'good ole days', so what's the point? For me, all it does is point out all the blunders of the franchise over the last 7-8 years... 'this is what COULD have been'... 'this is why we're losing'... I just don't understand the point. Maybe it's because one can't understand the intonation of words and frases through a computer, but I just don't see the point of bringing up all of these negative aspects.


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## mixum (Mar 19, 2003)

how about nathan leaves our forum and gos wherever sheed goes....that way you can talk about him with the fans of whose team hes on.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Why analyze my question? Answer it or don't.

I'm pointing out something special about a former Blazer. I'm curious if anyone else in the league has matched this accomplishment. That's all. Interesting-- no one seems to get so upset if someone brings up Sabonis in here.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Mixum- it's an interesting question. Answer it or don't post. I'm still a Blazers fan and I would have preferred the Blazers win the title instead of the Pistons this year. In fact, nothing in post here says that I even LIKE Sheed. I'm just pointing out a specific accomplishment and wondering if anyone has matched it. I didn't even share an opinion. I just stated a fact and asked a question. Why does this anger you so?


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

What negative aspects did I bring up in this thread, SheedSoNasty?

I didn't say that the Blazers shouldn't have traded Sheed in this thread. I didn't say that the Blazers did ANYTHING wrong in this thread. All I did was point out a positive about the Blazers and Pistons under Sheed and wonder if said accomplishment had been matched by the teams of any other single player. That's it.

Any negatives came from YOUR head.


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## lalooska (Jan 17, 2004)

I'm guessing Stoudamire falls into that category, seeing as both he and Wallace were here at the same time, without prior playoff experience.

Wondering if Wallace ever won a HCA series without Pippen? Or Stoudamire? I don't know the answer, but my point is, maybe it's not due to Wallace alone, but the combined level of talent of the team. 

My personal feeling is that Wallace does have a positive effect on the basketball court, but is more the benficiary of talented teams when it comes to your stat.

BTW, I heard he has the second best winning percentage on Tuesdays and Saturdays when the day of the month ends with a 2.


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## mixum (Mar 19, 2003)

Dude, I dont care what sheed did...MAYBE HE DID...good for him but its too bad no blazer fans want to remeber him, so out of respect for the other posters...you should stop with the sheed crap cause we have moved on.....hes in the past and should stay there. 

nathan in other forums people get on you alot cause you rub them the wrong way...i have always liked your posts(other than sheed posts) but you gotta stop with this sheed crap cause its annoying! I think you have more heart than most fans i have ever seen but you just seem to damn obsessesd with sheed!

MOVE ON and we can talk about the blazers future.


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## Stevenson (Aug 23, 2003)

mommmmmmmmmm! Billy won't answer my question! Billy says I should stop bugging him!


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>lalooska</b>!
> I'm guessing Stoudamire falls into that category, seeing as both he and Wallace were here at the same time, without prior playoff experience.
> 
> 
> Wondering if Wallace ever won a HCA series without Pippen? Or Stoudamire?


Yeah, he just did with the Pistons (a team which LOST with HCA in the previous two years).

And NO, Stoudamire does not answer the question. Damon has never lost with HCA, true, but he has only won without it ONCE while Sheed has won without it THREE TIMES (including one game in which he GUARANTEED it).


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## lalooska (Jan 17, 2004)

Sounds like you already know the answer to your question, then. 

The only other 2 times where he was a part of a team that won a series without HCA was this years Pistons, where he arguably contributed the least to any team previous.

So I suppose what you're getting at is either Wallace is great, or he is at the right place at the right time. I'd go for the latter.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

I'm not sure I know the answer to the question. I'm wondering if I've missed someone.

As for Sheed contributing the LEAST, what are you talking about? He made more FGs in the playoffs than Finals MVP Billups did. He was the top shotblocker in the entire NBA Finals. And he was the reason the entire Pistons team believed they could win the title. They all said so. What can you contribute more to a team that the BELIEF that the whole thing can be won?


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## lalooska (Jan 17, 2004)

My point is that on Portland, he was considered the go to, first option. On Detroit he was mostly a 3rd option, and in some games he went most of a half without much PT. Seems like you'd want a great player out on the floor more often. 

Detroit had Hamilton, Billups, Ben Wallace, and then Rasheed as its leaders. He just happened to be on a team with more talented and healthy players than their competition. 

Interesting topic/stat, I'm just not sure what it means if Wallace is the only one to do that.

When we talk about arbitrary things such as these, there is a chance that any of us can be right. And most often times, there's not much any of us can say that will change someone's opinion on such things.

I say coincidence, you say not. Maybe we're both right, eh?


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## RipCity9 (Jan 30, 2004)

> The point is that Sheed's teams have overachieved in the playoffs THREE TIMES but have NEVER underachieved.


Then there's the whole underachieving in the regular season that caused his teams not to have home court advantage, but we'll let that one go. We could also look more at his home court record (for instance losing 2 of 3 against LA in 2000), but why bother? Go ask Detroit fans.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

The fact is UNDENIABLE: when Sheed's teams have HCA, they win. And in three series, he won without HCA. Deal with it. Can't think of anyone else who is currently in the NBA that has done that.

Go to guy, shmo to guy. Sheed and Billups took just as many shots in the playoffs and Sheed made more. Sheed improved the D and gave them all the belief that they could win. Besides, the Pistons didn't NEED a go to guy, per se. Were any of their Finals wins even close?


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## Draco (Jun 28, 2003)

We'll how many years did the blazers not get HCA?

Great players like Jordan and Bird and Magic we're able to win games in the regular season to put themselves in a position to make a title run. They brought it every game of the REGULAR season too.

As a blazers there we're only 2 teams sheed was on where we had very much HCA and he was surrounded by extremely talented teammates.

Sheed is a good 3rd option but he can't lead a team to a title, and the blazers didn't have the talent to get there soon so it was best to let him go. I'd rather have the ratler and sar then save paul allen 17m this offseason.


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## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

What's the point of coming into this thread just to mock the content of it? Unless you're a Trailblazer forum moderator, you aren't required to enter this thread. If it's not of interest to you, ignore it.

Entering a thread just to post, "No one cares" is infantile.

Either enter a thread to honestly read and/or take part or ignore it and go to threads you *do* want to discuss.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Draco- Sheed took as many shots as Billups in the playoffs and he made more. Doesn't that make him the 2nd option?


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

* It's simple people: if you don't care, DO NOT POST.

This is obviously a thread that centers around Rasheed Wallace, but a massive part of Rasheed's history is as a Blazer.

It is NOT off-topic. It is NOT trolling.

Stop with the name-calling and troublemaking just because you don't like the basis of the thread or what you know of the person that started it.

I'm not going to go back and edit out all the inappropriate comments in this thread, but if any more are made there will be consequences.

If you have any issues with this or any questions about it, please PM me or another moderator. Thank you,

Ed O.*


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Just for the record Darko Milicic's has never lost a series period.


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

Deleted.


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## Draco (Jun 28, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> Draco- Sheed took as many shots as Billups in the playoffs and he made more. Doesn't that make him the 2nd option?


No because billups took more 3's and billups scored more points a game. It is somewhat close though you could call him a 2nd/3rd option.

Sheed still is a very good 2nd/3rd option and he fits into a team like detroit really well its just the blazers don't have that talent so it was time to let him go and at least get some value in return.

Sheed is not a top5 player who can lead a team to a championship by himself, but he is a very good piece to the puzzle.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

Personally I don't think it's "Sheed's team"..

He is a player on a very good team.
He plugged into a position that really helped them.
I do not believe that he was the reason they won.
Another player would have done just as good..

Besides...he was here for many years on a darn good team.
He surely doesn't play any better there than he did here.
I think they are kind and maybe a little in the honeymoon stage
of their adoration of him.

I don't remember all that drooling over him for the last 8
years he was here.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

*I see*

That your new set of Sheed Knee Pad's showed up in the mail today. Having a good time with them?


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

I think the great Wally Walker is equaly as blessed and a great leader like Sheed. I believe he did it. 

I wish I could come up with questions like this. You all know, the kind of question that is almost impossible to argue. In a league that has been around as long as the NBA I'm sure there are hundreds of people that never even lost a playoff series. I'm even sure there are people that have never lost a playoff game too. 



hasoos: I see That your new set of Sheed Knee Pad's showed up in the mail today. Having a good time with them? 


Ease up dude, we can all agree to disagree. I have my issues with the topics as well, but there is no need for slander. For all we know nathan could be the greatest guy ever. Maybe he's a fireman, or gives blood regularly, or helps old people across the street....whatever. He just might like to provoke people. Maybe that's how he has his fun. No harm in that.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

No single player can carry a team to a championship by himself.

Not Sheed, not ANYONE.

Why would you WANT one player to do it all?

Jackie- ANY OTHER player could have done what Sheed did? NO.

Not true.

There is no other player in the entire league like Rasheed Wallace.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

For instance, Draco, is T-Mac a top 5 player?

If so, why didn't he lead the Magic to a championship all by himself?

Such logic is ridiculous.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

"There is no other player in the entire league like Rasheed Wallace."

That's right !
The Invisible Man at times,part time NBA 
player.

Mr. CTC


By the way,your post on another thread that Shaq is the greatest player of alltime
got me injured.
I fell off my chair laughing at that one.
Really ?
Of all time?????


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

"No single player can carry a team to a championship by himself.

Not Sheed, not ANYONE.

Why would you WANT one player to do it all?"

we are not the ones saying this Nathan.
you are implying it by calling it Sheed's team and saying they won because of him.What else are you conveying except that?


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Hogwash--- ask his TEAMMATES if he is ever invisible. Ask his OPPONENTS if he is ever invisible. You don't have to score to have a MAJOR impact on the game. If he is IN THE GAME, he causes problems for the opposition whether he scores or not. His thread to score from everywhere, his great passing ability, his lenghth, athleticism, defense, and LEADERSHIP on defense make him a VERY EFFECTIVE player WHENEVER he is on the court.

Anyone who says he is EVER invisible in a game does NOT KNOW THE GAME. Ask Larry Brown if Sheed was ever invisible. Ask the Herb Brown. Ask Finals MVP Billups.

Go Blazers


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

[strike]Jackie- PLEASE read before your post.[/strike]

Draco said this: "Sheed is not a top5 player who can lead a team to a championship by himself, but he is a very good piece to the puzzle."

Draco implied that the top 5 players could lead a team a championship by themselves. That is RIDICULOUS. I never asserted this. DRACO did.

I never said Sheed could win by himself. In fact, I flat out said Sheed could not. NO ONE CAN. 

[strike]PLEASE read before posting, Jackie.[/strike]


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

so you are knocking out the last 8 years here in Portland as if they didn't exist ??
there were times I would beg in front of the tv for him to get into the game,not stand there outside the plays ..

no penetrating to the basket,getting that one big rebound,etc..
what is it about now suddenly he has zero flaws??


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

As for "why the Pistons won," Jackie... the best people to talk to are the PISTONS. When Larry Brown, Prince, Ben Wallace, Rip, and Billups were EACH asked "when did you believe you could win the whole thing?", they ALL said "when we got Rasheed Wallace."


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

no sweetie...read your own posts.

you imply night after night that they won
because of sheed..
you don't say that the team won..
you imply that sheed has never lost a playoff game,never lost a whatever.

what is that but singling him out and implying that they couldn;t have done it without him??
like he personally was the reason??????


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

I believe they call that team basketball
Nathan.

I believe that another player like Sheed could have done the same thing.
Good grief I watched the playoffs.

with all the games,only one was a real standout and I think Karl played on his knees in that one.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Jackie- you were obviously only watching ELEMENTS of the game and not the WHOLE game. If he didn't grab boards, did you notice him box out so that Davis could get the board? Did you notice a key blocked shot? A key pass? The fact that the defenses were keying on him and he opened up big scoring opportunities for his teammates?

I remember a game vs Denver where Sheed scored 30 through the first three qtrs and then didn't score in the 4th and DEREK ANDERSON said the "loss is on us. Sheed opened up shot opportunities for me and Damon and we didn't knock them down."

And I remember a game vs the Sonics where Sheed was failing to make his turnaround on the low block in the 4th qtr, but he had several key rebounds and two VERY KEY blocks of three point shots by Radmanovic. 

Forget the 8 years he was with the Blazers? HOW COULD I? He hit more game winners than I can count and had more big 4th qtrs than I can remember (in both the playoffs and the regular season), and we went to the playoffs every year and the WCF twice! We never won the title cuz we never surrounded him with the right combination of talent. You could say he had lots of talent in 2000 but WHERE WERE THEY? Look at that Game 7 box score? Where was Damon? Where was Pippen? Where was Brian Grant? Where was Sabonis?


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Ummm... Sheed is a rare breed in that he has ALWAYS played team basketball whether it was a contract year or not.

And EVERY GAME was a stand out game for Rasheed Wallace because that team was greater than the sum of its part. They all relied on each other for both their defense and their offense. You can't look at individual stats to determine which games were his best. But I'd say Game 1 was DARN impressive. He led his team in rebounding. He held Malone COMPLETELY in check (and Malone was more healthy that game AND Malone was in a quest for his first title AND he had Shaq and Kobe at his sides) and Sheed scored 14 pts on only 4 shots. His threes to open each half were BIG. He was incredibly efficient in that game and the Pistons won by 12.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Since I answered the question shouldn't we be finished with this thread now.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: 
I am outta here to the fireworks.
do not make comments like this .
You can be his pr "man" on the side.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Jackie, honey, read the title of this thread. It says Sheed's TEAMS, not "Sheed."

Again.... PLEASE READ before posting. In your case, I would like to recommend that you read the posts TWICE before posting because instead of posting something that will be censored, I would like to say  Happy 4th.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

'And EVERY GAME was a stand out game for Rasheed Wallace because that team was greater than the sum of its part. '

um. this is not acceptable, and I don't want to be spending my 4th of july night editing and censoring this ****, so stop now, or many posts will be deleted and I don't care what anyone says. This applies to EVERYONE, I just decided to use this edit to let it be known :laugh:


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Mediocre- you did not answer the question.

And what was this statement about?

" wish I could come up with questions like this. You all know, the kind of question that is almost impossible to argue."

Questions are made to be ANSWERED, not argued.

You can't ARGUE a question but no one seems to understand that. Everyone, including you, is trying to ARGUE my question. Just answer it. The only person I can think of is Michael Jordan. And I think Scottie Pippen applies too, right? But they are both retired. Is there anyone IN THE LEAGUE NOW that has done what Sheed's teams have? I'm sure they may be, but everyone is too busy arguing with me instead of trying to help me answer the question. If you don't want to answer the question, fine. Don't. BUt don't argue the asking of it.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

Nathan,you made a comment couple nights ago about "healing our relationship"

Sorry, I had made you a DNR...


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Jackie, it's a shame you can't understand the concept of the "team being greater than the sum of its parts."

See..... each every person's Defense and Offense relies on the presence of the other people on that team, so when the team has a good game and WINS, it is because of EACH AND EVERY PERSON on that team. So EVERY GAME was a good game for Sheed. Every game was a good game for every player on that team. That's what made them champions. You can't pick apart someone's individual importance by just looking at their numbers.

AS for DELUSIONS..... it is YOU who said that the Pistons were going to get clobbered by the Lakers. It is YOU who said that Sheed had NO CHANCE of winning the championship about a month ago. YOU  Um. no


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> Mediocre- you did not answer the question.
> 
> And what was this statement about?
> ...



Maybe you don't read things as clearly as you should either. I did answer the question.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Ummmm.... you talked about Wally Walker's LEADERSHIP. I never mentioned leadership in my question! AND you said you THINK he did it.

Did his teams do it or not? Give evidence.

AND..... Wally Walker STILL doesn't answer the question. I asked if there was any player "IN THE LEAGUE." Is Wally Walker in the league? No. 

Heck, if you wanna go back in time, I ALREADY said that Mike Jordan did it.

Is there any player IN THE LEAGUE whose teams have accomplished this feat or better?


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

It's amazing that this thread is 5 pages long and not one person has responded with an intelligent attempt at answering the question. Most people have just responded by either bashing me , the question, Sheed or all three.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>NathanLane</b>!
> It's amazing that this thread is 5 pages long


Isn't it though? As much as some would suggest otherwise, it seems that people continue to have VERY strong feelings about Sheed. [Disclosure for those that don't know: I'm a Sheed fan].

I'm kind of interested to know how long this phenomenon will last. Will we still be talking about Sheed next year at this time? I was in a galaxy far, far away when Drexler left - was the reaction in any way similar?

I'm not altogether surprised that you didn't get a satisfying answer to your question, however - it isn't an easy one to answer. 

barfo


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

I hear ya, Barfo.

On one hand, I hear people saying that I'm obsessed with Sheed. But on the other hand, I hear these people being VERY obsessed with the fact that they think I'm obsessed with Sheed. Who is more passionate? The people who respect Sheed or the people that are really pissed at those people?


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

First off I did try and answer the question. I said it might be Wally Walker. Secondly how in the world can anyone "respect" Sheed. I can see how one might think he is a good player, but respect him? Please tell me how you can respect someone who threw a towel in a teammates face, treated a lot of the fans and people in Portland like they were beneath him, disrespected one of his coaches, and has set a technical record that will stand longer than Dimaggio's hit streak. Like maybe, but respect......C'mon


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

mediocre man's answer seems like a pretty good guess/answer. I don't know what the complete answer would be (someone wanna go back through every NBA playoffs series and see results for players?) 

Ed O.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Deleted. Take commentary like this to PMs if you need to make it.


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>mediocre man</b>!
> Secondly how in the world can anyone "respect" Sheed. I can see how one might think he is a good player, but respect him? Please tell me how you can respect someone who threw a towel in a teammates face, treated a lot of the fans and people in Portland like they were beneath him, disrespected one of his coaches, and has set a technical record that will stand longer than Dimaggio's hit streak. Like maybe, but respect......C'mon


Well, it's a personal thing, obviously. You think his crimes make him unworthy of your respect. I think you have to look at the whole person - his crimes, yes, but also his accomplishments and whatever indications we have of his personal life.

To me, Sheed is enormously deserving of respect. I have an appreciation for the hard work and dedication that it takes to get to the top. The fact that he got there and still appears to be a nice guy who loves his wife and kids and job and is liked by his teammates - that's not so common, actually. The fact that he has an anger problem to me doesn't erase all the positives about the man.

Now, I suppose you could argue that Sheed had everything handed to him on a silver platter - that he didn't have to work hard to get where he is and thus he hasn't accomplished anything by himself. Myself, I don't think that's a very realistic view, but if you make that assumption then he has fewer positives to balance the negatives.

I wonder whether Sheed would respect us (the posters on this board)? Should he? 

barfo


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Hmmmm, I guess I need to give a more vanilla answer. well here it goes, I hope this passes security. It wasn't a good enough answer Ed. It has to be a current player in the league. And I think he already knows there is none which is why he posted the question in the first place.


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## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>barfo</b>!
> 
> 
> Well, it's a personal thing, obviously. You think his crimes make him unworthy of your respect. I think you have to look at the whole person - his crimes, yes, but also his accomplishments and whatever indications we have of his personal life.
> ...




Solid and well thought out post as always Barfo. The man does seem to be a wonderful family man, and friendly with "most" of his teammates. Not all of course because we've heard even his best frined say that the locker room was better now that he was traded, there was the towel of course with Sabas, and the incident when he threw a ball and hit Boom-Boom in the head while Bonzi looked on and chuckled.

You also stated that he should be respected for his hard work???? I'm not saying he didn't..... and doesn't still work hard, but EVERY "expert" you hear from says he has more talent than just about anyone in the league, yet he underachieves. How is that working hard, how does that earn him respect? I think Rasheed is much more talented than Jermain O'Neal for example, but O'Neal puts up better numbers.....why? It's because he works harder. 

I know I know Nathan, Jermain hasn't won a title. save it.

I told a story once about my wife being told by Rasheed that he wouldn't give her an autograph because she was a white girl. 

Why is it again he should be respected?


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>mediocre man</b>!
> You also stated that he should be respected for his hard work???? I'm not saying he didn't..... and doesn't still work hard, but EVERY "expert" you hear from says he has more talent than just about anyone in the league, yet he underachieves. How is that working hard, how does that earn him respect? I think Rasheed is much more talented than Jermain O'Neal for example, but O'Neal puts up better numbers.....why? It's because he works harder.


Now, I didn't say Jerm doesn't work even harder than Sheed. I'm not claiming Sheed is the hardest working man in the NBA. But I'll bet he works harder than most of those who had the same physical gifts as Sheed but didn't make it in the NBA. 

Editing in another thought here: where did all that talent Sheed is supposed to have come from? Was he born with it? Or did he develop it? 

Sure, maybe Sheed could be even better. He could also have been a whole lot worse.



> I told a story once about my wife being told by Rasheed that he wouldn't give her an autograph because she was a white girl.


Well, there is ample evidence that Sheed has some issues with race as well. I agree that needs to be added to the negative side of the ledger.



> Why is it again he should be respected?


Why is it that any man should be respected?

barfo


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## ScottVdub (Jul 9, 2002)

Sheed is a very good player and played great for detroit. Basketball is a team game and i dont care who scores the points as long as the players on the floor are out there doing what it takes to try and get them. Detroit basketball only scores in the 80's usually as it is and with a team that balanced not everyone is going to score 20 points. Rasheed played his part and the argument about him not being able to lead a team to a title by himself is silly, because nobody ever has and ever will lead a team to a title by himself. I dont recall any 1 on 5 matchups in an nba game.

Portland had a good run with sheed for a couple of years. They overachieved in 1999 and had a good playoff run. ANd then the next year put forth a team that could compete for a coulple years and thats what it did. Pippen got old, Steve Smith got old. A young Bonzi came in. Damon was our PG and DA was a major piece. And Dale Davis was the starting center. That is not a championship roster, so sheed shouldnt have got nagged on so much.

So i guess if he wins his series in which his teams have the home court advantage and then some, it means he is meeting and exceeding the call of duty as far as helping the team win goes, and thats all that matters.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Who cares about Jermaine's numbers? Individual numbers are not what this game is about.

I asked if there was a player IN THE LEAGUE whose teams had done what Sheed teams had done. Wally Walker does not count. And, NO, I do not know the answer to my own question. I honestly didn't think past a few players and then start to wonder. You are ASSUMING I already knew the answer but that is an incorrect assumption. I'm guessing there IS a player in the league who has done this and I was wondering if anyone in this forum could figure out who that person was. Honest.

You're gonna harp on Sheed for throwing the towel at Sabonis? That was out of frustration after having an ELBOW stuck in his face by Sabonis cuz Sabonis was flopping instead of playing D.

Jermaine O'Neal slapped a cop once. Do you respect HIM?

Please.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

And bravo to Scott. Boy, does he GET it.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

"Jermaine O'Neal slapped a cop once. Do you respect HIM?"

uhhhh that was Uncle Cliffie as a rookie.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

I don't believe I have ever seen a more unpleasant player(to me
anyway) get so much attention and have people stick up for him.

He acted like he could have cared less while here in Portland.
He was sour toward the fans ,surely didn't give his all as others 
have expressed.
A horrid player toward the press,blamed all his misfortune on them !
At times was utterly invisible and not even in the game !

That seemed so weird the way he would not even be in the plays !
Now suddenly as a role player on another team..and basically 
that's what he is..
He is "leading teams,winning championships"..etc.

What surprizes me,is that some people who are kneeling in front
of him now..were invisible here when he was stinking it up.
where were they then??
Nathan..where were you then???
I don't remember you slobbering all over him for the last 8 years.
why now??
It seems to me a deliberate way to dig at fans here.
I am only speaking for myself.. but it seems to be like a game for you.

Again...where have you been for the 8 years of his highjinks ????


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Jackie, Jermaine O'Neal was arrested for cursing at a cop, my bad. He was still disrespectful and ARRESTED (Sheed has NEVER been arrested.)

You know what I don't understand? You hate Sheed, fine. And you see Sheed's name in the thread and yet....... HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU CLICKED ON THIS THREAD??? 8 times??? 10 times??? It seems that ALL YOU WANT TO READ ABOUT and talk about is Sheed. Prove you don't care about Sheed by no longer clicking on this thread and posting (which bumps the thread back to the top).

As for Sheed's 8 years of hijinx, here are a few I can think of:

*Game winning shots vs Orlando, Golden State, Dallas, Lakers.

* Game high 30 pts in Game 7 at Staples Center vs Lakers in 2000 WCF.

* 22 playoff wins.

* Made the playoffs all 8 years.

* Never arrested- not for rape, not for drugs, not for spousal abuse. Never arrested at all.

* Came up with a respectful way to answer questions without offending people ("Both teams played hard. God bless and goodnight.") but was then asked to speak his mind so he DID.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

Deleted. Cut out the condescending attitude.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

whoa...you had better relax.
you are a little bit wired up here.

Nathan !
PLEASE stop saying I hate Sheed.
I do not.

I just can't stand him.
That is different than hate .


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## ThatBlazerGuy (May 1, 2003)

> Game winning shots vs Orlando, Golden State, Dallas, Lakers.


Ill give him this. He hit alot of great game winning shots for us this year and in years past. He was alwasy underrated in the clutch. 




> Game high 30 pts in Game 7 at Staples Center vs Lakers in 2000 WCF.


He had a great game. And im not trying to take anything away from his performance, but we lost. While on the topic of great preformances in loosing causes in confrence finals, Jermaine O'Neal had 20 points, 10 rebounds and 3 blocks while loosing game 7 to the Pistons. 




> 22 playoff wins.


He may have helped, but he sure as hell didnt get the wins on his own. Darko Millicic and Tremaine Fowlkes also got 22 playoff wins if you want to look at it like this. 




> Made the playoffs all 8 years.


Players dont make the playoffs, teams make the playoffs. 




> Never arrested- not for rape, not for drugs, not for spousal abuse. Never arrested at all.


Sheed is a good person. But, lemme tell you a tale. My friend was really good friends with Sheed's oldest step-son before he went to boarding school. They would chill at Sheed's alot, and Sheed would ALWASY be smoking weed. Now, I have no problem with marijuana. I dont think it is a big deal, because it doesnt hurt anyone. Im just trying to point out that even the great Rasheed Wallace has flaws. 

But, from what I heard, he was a good dad. He would actually do charity work and not tell people because he didnt care about publicity. He also wouldnt let his own kids smoke weed(At least not around him). 



I am a Wallace fan. I cheered him on during the playoffs. I love his game, and his attitude. He isnt a great guy to people he doesnt know, but once he gets to know you, from what I have heard, he is great guy. 

The only reason I disagree with this thread is it seems you are trying to paint Sheed as the savior that carried the Pistons into the playoffs. If anything, Sheed was an equal contributor on a great team that played great team basketball. So, if you wanna talk about Sheed as a primary reason the Pistons wont the championship, at least mention that he had 3 other guys that were at least equally as good as him helpin Wallace get that trophy.


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## KingSpeed (Oct 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>ThatBlazerGuy</b>!
> 
> He had a great game. And im not trying to take anything away from his performance, but we lost. While on the topic of great preformances in loosing causes in confrence finals, Jermaine O'Neal had 20 points, 10 rebounds and 3 blocks while loosing game 7 to the Pistons.
> 
> ...


Jermaine O'Neal's Pacers lost to the Pistons in SIX.

Darko has only won 16 playoff games, not 22, and he didn't play in all of them so it's not even 16.

Yes, Sheed had good teammates this year. If only he had good teammates in 2000, we would have won the title. On PAPER, he had good teammates, but let's go back to that Game 7. You said he had a good game but we still lost. Why is that? Look at Sabonis' contribution. Look at Brian Grant's. Look at Damon's. Even look at Pippen. If TWO of those guys had played an AVERAGE game, we would have won.

Did I ever say Sheed was the primary reason they won? I don't think so. But I DO think the Piston players nearly said as much. They all said the #1 reason they believed they could win was because they had Sheed.


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## jackiejackal (Nov 7, 2002)

"The only reason I disagree with this thread is it seems you are trying to paint Sheed as the savior that carried the Pistons into the playoffs. If anything, Sheed was an equal contributor on a great team that played great team basketball. So, if you wanna talk about Sheed as a primary reason the Pistons wont the championship, at least mention that he had 3 other guys that were at least equally as good as him helpin Wallace get that trophy."

Now this is a great post !
and so accurate and true.


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