# McGrady doesn't care about winning



## pharcyde (Jun 22, 2002)

Well, maybe he does, but he did leave Toronto where they could've had two of the top 5 players in the East on the same team, maybe even the top 2. But he wanted to go somewhere that would allow him to be the star. He put his numbers ahead of winning, that's why I'm not a Tmac fan and never will be.


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## twolvefan11 (Jul 21, 2002)

if he didnt go to orlando, he wouldnt have developed into what he is now, a great player. sure, he put his numbers in front of winning, but what nba player doesnt?


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## g-dog-rice (Jun 27, 2002)

Horry doesn't


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## twolvefan11 (Jul 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>g-dog-rice</b>!
> Horry doesn't


theres one out of a million then, name another one.


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## Dragnsmke1 (Jul 29, 2002)

Nash, Stockton, Duncan, Kidd, ect...


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>moTIGS</b>!
> Well, maybe he does, but he did leave Toronto where they could've had two of the top 5 players in the East on the same team, maybe even the top 2. But he wanted to go somewhere that would allow him to be the star. He put his numbers ahead of winning, that's why I'm not a Tmac fan and never will be.


I guess you don't like Kobe either, since he refused to play for New Jersey or Charlotte and forced a trade to Los Angeles. A real team player.....


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## nima86 (Jul 30, 2002)

*Re: Re: McGrady doesn't care about winning*



> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> 
> I guess you don't like Kobe either, since he refused to play for New Jersey or Charlotte and forced a trade to Los Angeles. A real team player.....



That makes no sense. Kobe leaves a those sorry teams wre he could be the man to go to Lakers and Win championships.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: McGrady doesn't care about winning*



> Originally posted by <b>nima86</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> That makes no sense. Kobe leaves a those sorry teams wre he could be the man to go to Lakers and Win championships.


You are missing the whole concept young man. He couldn't have possibly known that the Lakers would go on to sign Shaq and win 3 championships. He wanted more exposure and a chance to showcase his skills. He didn't do the tradition thing and go along with the team that drafted him.


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## Bean the pimp (Jul 15, 2002)

didnt t-mac go to orlando knowing that grant hill was gonna be there and guessing they would have the best team in the east like everybody else thought?


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## SLiM9287 (Jul 2, 2002)

here he goes again starting another argument about kobe. No one even said any thing about him he didnt even compare tmac to him but u had to go and make this another lets talk about how kobe did all these things.


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## Hawkeye Pierce (Jul 15, 2002)

i think bean hit it on the head


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## nima86 (Jul 30, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: McGrady doesn't care about winning*



> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> 
> You are missing the whole concept young man. He couldn't have possibly known that the Lakers would go on to sign Shaq and win 3 championships. He wanted more exposure and a chance to showcase his skills. He didn't do the tradition thing and go along with the team that drafted him.



Hey buddy the lakers were still a playoff team and the Hornets and Nets werent that good. HE didnt know hed have Shaq and 3 championships but he knew he was going to a team that makes the playoffs.


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## couchtomato (Aug 14, 2002)

*Re: Re: McGrady doesn't care about winning*



> Originally posted by <b>KC</b>!
> 
> 
> I guess you don't like Kobe either, since he refused to play for New Jersey or Charlotte and forced a trade to Los Angeles. A real team player.....


Kobe was in a similar situation where he felt his talent was being wasted. He was patient, worked hard in practice and when he got his chance he took advantage of it. I forget what coach it was that said that now that Kobe has gotten a chance to start he'd never be able to get him out of the starting line up. Kobe also had to leap frog over two pretty darn good guards in Eddie Jones and Nick VE.

I don't know what the heck happened in Toronto. Was managemennt THAT blind? Kobe advised T-Mac to be patient, he'd get his chance. But he didn't want to go that route. He chose to leave. He's the man now in Orlando - but it MAY cost him his chance to be a champion. 

But anyway you look at it, there is nothing wrong with either of these decisions. They did was was right for them.

I won't fool myself into thinking that 17 year old Kobe was pulling the strings on draft day. I have no doubt that Kobe's dad, his agent, and Jerry West were. 

Kobe, a Net?


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## <<<D>>> (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>moTIGS</b>!
> Well, maybe he does, but he did leave Toronto where they could've had two of the top 5 players in the East on the same team, maybe even the top 2. But he wanted to go somewhere that would allow him to be the star. He put his numbers ahead of winning, that's why I'm not a Tmac fan and never will be.



That's the Knock on TMac in the past....
His desire for the game is questionable??
He's a great player though, and with G.Hill hopefully healthy next season, it should bring out the best in TMac


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## g-dog-rice (Jun 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>twolvefan11</b>!
> 
> theres one out of a million then, name another one.



Uh. let's see-RICK FOX(took a big pay cut),JOHN STOCKTON(will do anything to win a title, likes to pass and not boost his stats all the time)


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## W1Z0C0Z (Jun 18, 2002)

I 100% totally disagree with the original poster of this topic. The Magic definetly had a better upside and chance to win then the Toronto Raptors. Grant Hill was injured in Detroit before he came to Orlando, but no one knew it would be this serious and keep him out so long. Grant Hill is no question better then Carter at full health. If Hill hadn't have been injured he had a chance to be one of the best small forwards of all time. Hill run point forward. McGrady and Mike Miller shooting from the outside. Ewing and Grant were definetly over the hill and past their prime, but they definetly should have made more of an impact then they did. Outlaw was a very good backup forward that could come in and work insanely hard and rebound. Armstrong could be a starter on a few teams in the league and he's coming off the bench, the guys all energy.

Yes Hakeem still beats Ewing. But other then that what would Toronto have over Orlando. Like no one expected Orlando to play that bad, no one thought Alvin Williams would be anything in the league. Yes Toronto would have been amazing highlights with McGrady and Carter. But McGrady/Hill/Miller/Ewing/Grant is a good team, without all the above listed problems.

Once Hill gets back to full health, if ever possible, the Magic should have no problems winning the east, or being near the top. They'll also need to get some big guys, but they have money to spend, so I'm sure it'll come together at some point.

Sorry to write so much, but I think these points are often ignored because people view things from the current situation instead of how it was when his decision to leave Toronto was made.


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## JaK (Aug 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>g-dog-rice</b>!
> Horry doesn't


Horry... he rides on coat tails when he won his championships... Altho, I give him props for hitting the clutch shot... He also always had a true big man, when he won his rings... I wonder how he would have played if he ever stayed in Phoenix... I think he would be a roamer (except with 2 rings) like Lamond Murray, Rodney Rodgers, Kemp, etc... guys who seem to be content in just playing and getting paid...

But then again he's just a role guy...

Liked him in Houston... Can't stand him now... Esp. after his stop in Phoenix...


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## g-dog-rice (Jun 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KBStAt</b>!
> here he goes again starting another argument about kobe. No one even said any thing about him he didnt even compare tmac to him but u had to go and make this another lets talk about how kobe did all these things.



Yeah, here goes KC, twolvefan11 trying to slam the Lakers when their teams have no titles and it has nothing to do with them.


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## twolvefan11 (Jul 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>g-dog-rice</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, here goes KC, twolvefan11 trying to slam the Lakers when their teams have no titles and it has nothing to do with them.


my god, when did i try to slam the lakers? i dont think their that bad of a team, but man, now telling lies? wut do you have against me? if you dont have anything against me, then the shut your ball washer!


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## g-dog-rice (Jun 27, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>JaK</b>!
> 
> 
> Horry... he rides on coat tails when he won his championships... Altho, I give him props for hitting the clutch shot... He also always had a true big man, when he won his rings... I wonder how he would have played if he ever stayed in Phoenix... I think he would be a roamer (except with 2 rings) like Lamond Murray, Rodney Rodgers, Kemp, etc... guys who seem to be content in just playing and getting paid...
> ...


Horry will do whatever it takes to win. Whether it is knocking down a big shot, giving great post entrys to Shaq, rebouding, playing tough D against bigger pf's. Horry is a great player who won't put stats above winning.


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## JaK (Aug 13, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>g-dog-rice</b>!
> 
> 
> Horry will do whatever it takes to win. Whether it is knocking down a big shot, giving great post entrys to Shaq, rebouding, playing tough D against bigger pf's. Horry is a great player who won't put stats above winning.


Looks like he would do anything... Even tossin' a towel in Ainge's face so that he could get a ticket to L.A.

yah...


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## John (Jun 9, 2002)

OKay guys, stay within the topic please.


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## Chops (May 30, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>g-dog-rice</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, here goes KC, twolvefan11 trying to slam the Lakers when their teams have no titles and it has nothing to do with them.


My team has 6 titles genius....


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## JNice (Jul 13, 2002)

I don't understand how common fans can sit and question a guy's desire to win. Most people mistake Tmac as lazy because of his demeanor, but laziness does not bring you the athleticism and skills to be one of two (almost 3) guys in the league to avg 25,5,5 .. along with Kobe and MJ. 

McGrady left because Orlando had a plan and the plan worked. Had Hill come back healthy to begin with, Orlando would have at least been in the EC Finals. 

Plus, McGrady/Hill combo works better since Tmac is a premiere player and main scorer.. Hill could avg 25-28 ppg, but he likes being more of a Magic Johnson than MJ type player. Carter is another premiere player and main scorer. Carter is not a wingman. McGrady is not a wingman. That would have caused problems.

Stop saying Tmac has no heart or desire. He carried a team that would have been chasing the Bulls for the worst record in the East without him to the playoffs.. and with a back so bad he could barely walk he led the playoffs in ppg and almost carried Orlando to the 2nd round all by his lonesome.

People can hate on Tmac and Kobe all they want, but you have to realize these two guys are on their own stratosphere.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

> Horry will do whatever it takes to win. Whether it is knocking down a big shot, giving great post entrys to Shaq, rebouding, playing tough D against bigger pf's. Horry is a great player who won't put stats above winning.


Horry is just a solid role player who rides on the cottails of star players. Even if he puts his stats over winning, how much is he gonna put up? 10 pts, 8 boards, 3 assists and probably a blk. Those numbers r average at best. Horry knew he wasn't gonna win sh*t with a center-less Phoenix, he needs a solid big MAN to hide his inconsistency down low and on the perimeter. There's a reason y he isn't a starter anymore. He's not consistent enuff and Shaq usually makes up for his short comings.


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## FSH (Aug 3, 2002)

Horry does alot for the Lakers


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## Patrick (Jun 10, 2002)

I don't know how some guy with no real reasoning can just come up with some bull talk, I understand it's summer and you might get bored once in awhile but please don't post crap topics like that just for the fun of it. McGrady wants to win and that's why he works his *** off, trying to motivate his team mates and he may not be the most hard working player in the NBA but his desire to suceed with the Magic is as high as anyone on Orlando's roster. Tracy works his *** off on every play and even if he did stay for the Raptors he wouldn't be the #1 guy there which would be a disgrace for a guy his talent. He would clash with VC sooner or later which is ridiculous, two star swingmen who are arguably top 10 players on the same team is kind of useless don't you think?

McGrady will have Hill by himself to make him look better and if he gets past the first round everyone will shut up. I am fed up with this T-Mac isn't clutch, T-Mac hasn't gone past the first round and all of that. It's all rubbish, McGrady is clutch for all 48 minutes of the game and always hits the shots to bring us back in the game which is tehnically clutch. Beating the shot clock isn't the only way to be clutch. Not only that but McGrady does not have any player on his team he can count on to help him out one night if he has the feeling his back will fail him yet he still gets 35 points per game. He's 23 years old and normally should still be on the bench and carrys his team, offcourse he won't get past the first round just yet and what he has done is proved he is a phenom in the NBA by even saving them from being a lottery team.

Non sense thread.. It's pretty insulting for a fan like me who appreciates what this guy has to go trough every game. Sad others who only watch him about 4-5 times a season come up with that garbage. Oh well, thanks to everyone who replied in this who actually know how vital of a player T-Mac is. Once again a big thank you.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

Well for a role player, Horry is awesome. Any team would love to have a 6'10 guy who can play 3 positions, rebound well, play solid D and spread the defense with his jump shot as well. But the truth is, he can only succeed playin' along superstars/stars. He cannot do anything on offense by himself. Can't post up or create his own shot on the perimeter. I found the comment "he doesn't put stats above winning" quite stupid since the only stats he can produce at best r just abt average.


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## couchtomato (Aug 14, 2002)

What's wrong with being a solid role player? Everybody can't be a superstar. Without Horry, Fox, and Fisher doing their roles the Lakers would not be three time champions. They all contribute to the wins. They are all deserving of the term champion.


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## ChiBron (Jun 24, 2002)

I was replying to the person who said, "horry doesn't put stats above winning".....well does Horry have a choice? I mean wat he's currently doing is the best he could do. Don't make it sound as if he's sacrificing something in LA. We all know Y he ran away from Phoenix.


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## JerryWest (Jun 24, 2002)

"I guess you don't like Kobe either, since he refused to play for New Jersey or Charlotte and forced a trade to Los Angeles. A real team player..... "

I believe the argument from the first posts is about enjoying winning over spotlight, not commitment to any particular team...

and like someone else mentioned earlier, you have to be a fool to think kobe was the one responisble for forcing the trade, instead of West just wanting him.


AS for SPOTLIGHT.

Lakers had their backcourt set at the time w/ Van excel and eddie jones, who was a young star playing SG, kobe's position. he could have gotten more minutes in carlotte and NJ.


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## BizzyRipsta (May 25, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KennethTo</b>!
> "I guess you don't like Kobe either, since he refused to play for New Jersey or Charlotte and forced a trade to Los Angeles. A real team player..... "
> 
> I believe the argument from the first posts is about enjoying winning over spotlight, not commitment to any particular team...
> ...


in an article in my local paper that was published around nba finals time, it was stated that the new jersey nets were planning on drafting kobe until they found out that kobe would have refused to play in new jersey and instead would have played in europe had he been drafted by the nets.


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## beautifulkobe (Jun 24, 2002)

Kobe in europe?Hmm I wonder what the laker team would be without him?


Anyway kobe has nothing to do with this post.Why is he brought into every topic in a negative way.

About horry hello the lakers would have not had the 3rd title without his 3 game 4.Also obviously hes older now so he doesnt play much.Horry is great clutch player and has proven that in many critical situations dont diss Horry.He is an important player on the team.


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## pharcyde (Jun 22, 2002)

Where did I ever mention Tracy's heart or desire? Where did I say he wasn't clutch, or was a bad player? Nothing I said had anything to do with how he played, just what kind of person he is. He was in a good situation in Toronto, playing with his cousin VC, and they could've easily been the best team in the East. Dee bo, I don't see why you think two wing players like Vince and McGrady couldn't play at the same time. It worked well for Chicago. Two great players can coexhist on the wing if they want to, but apparently McGrady wasn't interested in it. I may be mistaken, but I thought he signed with Orlando before they had Hill, but I guess that doesn't really matter. I do know that they didn't have Ewing at the time, so whoever said they did is wrong.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

Actually, Orlando went after Duncan that summer, then Hill, and signed TMac after the Duncan thing fell through. 

So Hill was signed there already when TMac did a sign and trade to Orlando from Toronto.


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## pharcyde (Jun 22, 2002)

Still, he left a situation that he knew was a good one to one he assumed would be better, but wasn't sure, because there was more money involved. I can't be a fan of a player who does that. That doesn't mean I dislike anyone who leaves a team via free agency, but I strongly dislike the idea of it. I don't like Shaq for leaving Orlando, but I do like Kobe and root for the Lakers in the playoffs. I think a marquee player should stay with the same team if they can, not leave a good situation for more money.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

Some employees are loyal to their company, to a fault.

Some employers are not loyal at all to their employees.

I've always gone to a company that gave me the most money, as my family always came before my business aspirations. 

So I try not to judge basketball employees about where they go or don't go.


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## pharcyde (Jun 22, 2002)

> Some employees are loyal to their company, to a fault.
> 
> Some employers are not loyal at all to their employees.
> 
> ...


That is nothing like the NBA. At a real job, you're not really worried about "winning," because you are most likely only at that job for the money. You may like your job, but it's not the same thing as being part of a pro basketball team. In the NBA you'll get a lot of money no matter who you play for. Tracy would've "taken care of his family" just as easily if he would've stayed in Toronto. I don't want to watch guys play basketball for the money any more than I want to watch an accountant on his calculator. I want to watch the guys who play the game for the fun of it, and who want to win.


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