# Andrea Bargnani



## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

I know I've been pretty high on LaMarcus Aldridge so far, but I'm starting to really have eyes for Andrea Bargnani. He's putting up some sick stats for Benetton Treviso in the Italian League. He's a little younger than Aldridge and he has none of the injury history. 

Per 48 minutes, this is what he's doing:

31.5 pts, 12.5 rebounds, 3.5 blocks, 2.2 steals, 4.4 turnovers, he's shooting close to 60% from the floor overall(46% from three point range) and 83% from the FT line. 

I don't think Dirk Nowitzki was putting up numbers like that at 20 years of age.

In fact, here's what I found from Dirk's stats at 20. Per 48 minutes:

29.3 pts, 10.7 reb, 4.5 assists, 44.7% fg, 26.3% 3pt, 78.1% ft


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

How is his competition in that league?
I know he is looked at by many as a top 5 pick, but I want a chance to evaluate him with my own eyes. Are any of his games going to be on TV?


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## chromekilla (Aug 21, 2005)

Nice stat's but id rather have morrison.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

lol he is a pf with those stats 

pritchard just scouted him and i feel he has a good handle and the Italian league is a pretty good league one of the top leagues.

the 83% ft would help us a huge amount.


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## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

Zidane said:


> Nice stat's but id rather have morrison.


Why?


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## chromekilla (Aug 21, 2005)

I like him better.Looks like an 80's porn star with that cool 'stache.His name is Andrea too sounds like a girls name.PLus i cant prounounce(sp) his last name.Pretty dumb reasons but it's why i don't like him.


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## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

I just poked around the internet, and it does seem that he does play much more like a PF or even a SF (on offence only) then a Center. That's OK by me, cause I think the only way the Blazers improve is with competition and every (even Zach's) position improving either through trades or via experience (webster and Telfair).


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## RPCity (Aug 29, 2005)

How many minutes per game does he get?


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Zidane said:


> Pretty dumb reasons but it's why i don't like him.


For once, we agree.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

RPCity said:


> How many minutes per game does he get?


He's getting about 20 minutes per game in 11 games so far. 

His season high was like 25 points in 20 minutes or something ridiculous like that. 

One drawback is that he can't pass. So far, only 2 assists in those 11 games.


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## cpt.napalm (Feb 23, 2005)

He might be able to score but if all they expect him to do is catch and shoot under the basket then there isn't much opportunity to get assists. That just means he doesn't have a problem beating his defneders and finishing.


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

> I like him better.Looks like an 80's porn star with that cool 'stache.His name is Andrea too sounds like a girls name.PLus i cant prounounce(sp) his last name.Pretty dumb reasons but it's why i don't like him.


That might be the most honest player preference assessment I've heard yet. Not that I agree with the conclusion, but I can't argue with any of the reasoning.

Dan


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

cpt.napalm said:


> He might be able to score but if all they expect him to do is catch and shoot under the basket then there isn't much opportunity to get assists. That just means he doesn't have a problem beating his defneders and finishing.


according to the posted stats and his nbadraft.net profile, his offensive game is mostly from the perimeter not on the block. On defense it reads like he's got the size and shotblocking skills to defend a big though. I haven't seen him, but I sure do hope that he's a legit big man prospect.

STOMP


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

Many people compare Andrea to Dirk, but as said, at the same age Bargnani is doing better than Nowitzki.

He's a PF with SF skills on the offensive side.
Pretty good rebounding and blocking skills ( averagin 5.1 rebounds and 1.5 blocks per game in 20 mpg) 

He's shooting so far 67% from 2 and 46% from 3 and with the 83% the free throws.

He has got a very nice outside shot, but he has got a very good first pass for a 7 footer and like to attack the basket with some nice dunks.

Games so far
http://195.56.77.208/player/pbd.pht...=2005&team=1103&type2=d1&name_search=Bargnani







































































Grettings


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

yeah he looks like the real deal dirk with better to the basket moves and better shooting a rare pf that has sf skills but can defend and no injury history.

he will be able to play in the nba


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

Some action Vs Rome 1 month ago

Video 3.9Mb (Avi Divx)


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## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

Fork said:


> In fact, here's what I found from Dirk's stats at 20. Per 48 minutes:
> 29.3 pts, 10.7 reb, 4.5 assists, 44.7% fg, 26.3% 3pt, 78.1% ft


Nowitzki only played for a second-division German team, didn't he? Benetton Treviso is one of the top teams in Europe. A better comparison might be Pau Gasol - didn't he play for Real Madrid?


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

nice video he isnt a stiff


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

meru said:


> Nowitzki only played for a second-division German team, didn't he? Benetton Treviso is one of the top teams in Europe. A better comparison might be Pau Gasol - didn't he play for Real Madrid?


Here's some info on Gasol:

http://www.basket-stats.info/players/playerfile/g/pau-gasol.htm

He actually played for Barcelona, but in the same league as Real Madrid and Juventas among others, so it's pretty good competition. 

He averaged 18.5 pts and 6 rebounds in 26 minutes per game his last year there, but that was a real breakout year for him and I think he was 6-8 months older than Bargnani is now. 

Gasol had only gotten 4.3 pts and 2 rebounds in 13 minutes the year before.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

italianBBlover said:


> Some action Vs Rome 1 month ago
> 
> Video 3.9Mb (Avi Divx)


Sweet! Thanks for the link.

He looks pretty athletic. Especially his reaction to the guy driving baseline. Very nice help defense. Could stand to hit the weights a little bit, but I guess that's only natural at 19-20 years of age.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

If I remember right Skita was being compared to Nowitski as well and look how that turned out....


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> If I remember right Skita was being compared to Nowitski as well and look how that turned out....


Most predictable post ever.

STOMP


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## Toxicity (Jul 21, 2004)

zagsfan20 said:


> If I remember right Skita was being compared to Nowitski as well and look how that turned out....


Yeah but Skita played only in garbage time in the last year in Europe and was only a prospect while Bargnani is playing consistent minutes and he's the best player for Benetton Treviso right now.

After watching him many times i can tell you that i've never seen a guy with a terrific 1st step at his size like Andrea... NBA included... :eek8: 

Now his back-to-the-basket offensive game lacks consistence and it's probably his main flaw. But i think he can improve a lot in the next 2-3 years if keeps working hard...

P.S.= 0.2 apg doesn't mean he's a bad passer: in Europe an assist isn't equal to a NBA assist. The assists-assign system is more restrictive here.


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## RPCity (Aug 29, 2005)

Toxicity said:


> P.S.= 0.2 apg doesn't mean he's a bad passer: in Europe an assist isn't equal to a NBA assist. The assists-assign system is more restrictive here.



How so?


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

bet its alleyoops and the like


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## Toxicity (Jul 21, 2004)

RPCity said:


> How so?


It's difficult to explain... just for example: if player 1 passes the ball to player 2 and player 2 scores from outside it's usually not an assist in FIBA rules. It could be an assist if player 2 shooted open (in this case the pass of player 1 "helped" him to score)... so we can generalize that the pass (for being scouted as assist) needs to "help" who scores. That's why mainly assists cause a lay-up, a dunk, an alley-oop or a move near the basket...

Anyway i'm not completely sure about this. Probably somebody in the forum knows the rule better than me and can explain you in another way!


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

zagsfan20 said:


> If I remember right Skita was being compared to Nowitski as well and look how that turned out....


Just like how Adam Morrison has been compared to Larry Bird.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Fork said:


> Just like how Adam Morrison has been compared to Larry Bird.


There's a difference, Morrison won't be a bust like Skita...


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## RedHot&Rolling (Jun 26, 2004)

Looks like there will be competition for the #1 selection. Add another to the list. I could envision him playing next to Miles and Przybilla - can't you?


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

If there is any one pattern I see for players coming out of Europe to the NBA its that if they are not starting over there, then don't expect them to be a star here. Look at the guys who have turned into solid players or stars here. All of them started in the Euroleagues. Look at the picks who didn't start. Darko. Skita. Pavel. It is definitly a generality, but in some ways it makes sense. Kryapa started for CSKA some. Monia did not, yet my gut feeling is he will be in the nba for some years. Star? Probably not but it is yet to be seen. Darko and Skita will probably play some here and there on teams, but are most likely at this point to languish on the bench.


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## ebott (Jan 7, 2003)

To my knowledge there have only been four guys that put up really solid numbers in Europe before coming over here. In order of date drafted: Arvidas, Drazen, Dirk, Gasol. All four of those guys were/are spectacular players in the NBA. They kinds of guys you build a team around.

The problem with European players that gets teams into trouble we end up giving a lot of them more credit than they deserve without seeing them play in games. When you're basing your opinion of a guy on his workouts rather than actual game play you're setting yourself up to get burned. Darco and Skita are the two obvious examples.

So don't lump Bargnani in with those guys. The guy is an out and out star in the Euroleagues. We're not basing our opinions on what we think his potential is. We're basing it on the fact that he's kicking *** and taking names.


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## Toxicity (Jul 21, 2004)

ebott said:


> To my knowledge there have only been four guys that put up really solid numbers in Europe before coming over here. In order of date drafted: Arvidas, Drazen, Dirk, Gasol.


You're forgetting Peja Stojakovic: over 20 ppg playing Euroleague for PAOK... 

And Nowitzki put up solid numbers in German 2nd division (very weak)...


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

yeah a 6'11 pf would be nice we need a pf with some size


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

> If there is any one pattern I see for players coming out of Europe to the NBA its that if they are not starting over there, then don't expect them to be a star here.


I'd be curious to know if that trend is indeed valid and if any teams/scouts have committed a statistical analysis to the issue. It seems like a pretty sound observation, but too obvious to be overlooked, given some of the questionable picks we've seen.

Dan


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## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

dkap said:


> I'd be curious to know if that trend is indeed valid and if any teams/scouts have committed a statistical analysis to the issue. It seems like a pretty sound observation, but too obvious to be overlooked, given some of the questionable picks we've seen.


It would be interesting... it's still so early, though, to tell what some of those players are capable of being.

Darko certainly LOOKS like a bust, but so did Jermaine O'Neal at this point. I still have significant confidence that Milicic is going to emerge as a serious player within the next 2 or 3 years. Skita LOOKS like a bust, but so did Stephen Jackson at this point (although Jackson wasn't a lottery pick).

Pietrus? Biedrins? Too early to tell.

There actually haven't been that many foreign lottery picks the past few years, now that I think of it. Skita is the only out-and-out bust so far, with Nene and Gasol and Radmanovich having different levels of successful careers so far (although only Gasol is a star from that group).

Ed O.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

Nenad Krstic is playing good ball in New Jersey.....he definitely hasn't been a bust....


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## STOMP (Jan 1, 2003)

Ed O said:


> Pietrus? Biedrins? Too early to tell.


I'll jump out on that limb... well rejump really. Those two are going to be good players worthy of starter's minutes at least IMO. Of the two, I'd take Biedrins... and I like Pietrus even better then Jason Richardson. Both of those guys are tremendous athletes, D up very well, and are good complimentry guys on offense... sort of the way Victor is. Neither is a star, but both are very solid (...again IMO)

STOMP


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

Virtus Bologna Vs Benetton Treviso at the Malaguti arena of Bologna, with the presence of Larry Bird

Bargnani
22 minutes
11 points
4/4 from 2 with 3 dunks
1/1 from 3
5 rebounds
3 blocks

:angel:

Who was today at the game is without words ... they say that this guy is a Nowitzki with more defense and Dirk was not so strong at the age of Andrea (19).

Then he made 3 showtime dunks, above all nice reverse dunk and one over the Bologna's defense ...

Those are the words of my friend Marco (a basketball expert, he was in Bologna to see the game) on the italian basketball board "_Bargnani? he's absolutely a monster; if there is an holy justice, this guy will be the #1 of the 2006 draft, because I've never seen such things, above all from a 19y kid ... fadeway 3s like nothing, an incredible 1st step for a 7 footer, blocks, great defense, amazing dunks ... 

Then this was my first time watching him "live" and wow ... I'm still shocked_"


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## Spoolie Gee (Feb 3, 2005)

STOMP said:


> I'll jump out on that limb... well rejump really. Those two are going to be good players worthy of starter's minutes at least IMO. Of the two, I'd take Biedrins... and I like Pietrus even better then Jason Richardson. Both of those guys are tremendous athletes, D up very well, and are good complimentry guys on offense... sort of the way Victor is. Neither is a star, but both are very solid (...again IMO)
> 
> STOMP


I really like both those players also, especially Biedrins. I think he'll end up being a very good NBA player, maybe even all-star caliber someday. He's still only 19!


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

yeah nice i like those stats


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

some Andrea's moves Vs Virtus Bologna 2 weeks ago under the eyes of Larry Bird

http://www.filelodge.com/files/hdd5/94287/Bargnani.avi


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

italianBBlover said:


> some Andrea's moves Vs Virtus Bologna 2 weeks ago under the eyes of Larry Bird
> 
> http://www.filelodge.com/files/hdd5/94287/Bargnani.avi


All I got was some image of Bargnani's name on the screen and some ****ty song by Da Brat! Do you, by any chance, know of any other available highlights of this kid? I'd really like to him in action, but thus far I haven't been able to. Thanks, iBBl.


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

CanJohno said:


> All I got was some image of Bargnani's name on the screen and some ****ty song by Da Brat! Do you, by any chance, know of any other available highlights of this kid? I'd really like to him in action, but thus far I haven't been able to. Thanks, iBBl.


Have you not seen the dunks and the block ?

BTW here another clip (3.9Mb)

http://digilander.iol.it/italianbasketball/bargnani1.avi


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

italianBBlover said:


> Have you not seen the dunks and the block ?
> 
> BTW here another clip (3.9Mb)
> 
> http://digilander.iol.it/italianbasketball/bargnani1.avi


All it says, in the new browser, is: 

RIFFø¯

The rest of the window is completely blank.


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

you must click on the video links with the right key of your mouse and click "save it as"


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## Toxicity (Jul 21, 2004)

CanJohno said:


> Do you, by any chance, know of any other available highlights of this kid?


If you can't download directly from web then you should try eMule or eDonley2000 and search the word "bargnani"...


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

Girls name or not, I think Portland could do alot worse.


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## 2k (Dec 30, 2005)

I like the guy Its Aldridge I'm not feeling. I rather have Shelden Williams then that guy. Andrea is a risk I dont mind Portland taking.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

italianBBlover said:


> you must click on the video links with the right key of your mouse and click "save it as"


Yeah, both worked great for me the first time. Thanks for the links.

Bargnani looks like an absolute stud. I just hope he's available when we pick. More nights like tonight against Miami and we'll have the #1 pick.


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

I still can't get it to work. Maybe I don't have the correct "codecs" or something? I don't know, i'm stumped.


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## Toxicity (Jul 21, 2004)

CanJohno said:


> I still can't get it to work. Maybe I don't have the correct "codecs" or something? I don't know, i'm stumped.


You need simply DivX codec for that clips. Alternatively you can try to play them with VLC Player (http://www.videolan.org/)...


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## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

> Looks like an 80's porn star with that cool 'stache.


What do you know about 80's porn stars? You're only 14!


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## cpt.napalm (Feb 23, 2005)

I vote we take Pittsnoggle in the second round. He is a big man that can shoot the lights out. 

Plus we could have a front line of Ha and Pittsnoggle. Just think the play by play writes itself. 

"Ha! You Just got Pittsnoggled. Ha forced Kobe to alter his shot and Pittsnoggle swatted it away."

Plus we would still get to keep our 1st rounder and can draft ourselves Adam "The Shootin' 'Stach" Morrison.


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## HOWIE (Dec 30, 2002)

Zidane said:


> I like him better.Looks like an 80's porn star with that cool 'stache.His name is Andrea too sounds like a girls name.PLus i cant prounounce(sp) his last name.Pretty dumb reasons but it's why i don't like him.


Yeah, that was pretty much my thoughs on Arvydas Sabonis at first too.


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

It's too bad we can't draft Andrea AND Morrison, because man, Andrea looks SICK. Sign me up for sure. :banana:


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

Bargnani today

24 minutes
19 points
6-9 from 2 (3 dunks)
1-4 from 3
9 rebounds
3 steals
1 turnover
1 block 

:cheers:


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

italianBBlover said:


> Bargnani today
> 
> 24 minutes
> 19 points
> ...


That's a nice statline. A VERY nice statline.


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## cpt.napalm (Feb 23, 2005)

The kid sure is efficient. Why doesn't he get more minutes if he can put up those numbers in such a short ammount of time?


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

cpt.napalm said:


> The kid sure is efficient. Why doesn't he get more minutes if he can put up those numbers in such a short ammount of time?


Say that to the Treviso's coach David Blatt :raised_ey  :wait: :upset:


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## Toxicity (Jul 21, 2004)

italianBBlover said:


> Say that to the Treviso's coach David Blatt :raised_ey  :wait: :upset:


David Blatt sucks... :curse: 

The excuse "Bargnani is still young, hasn't a lot of experience, etc" is poor... Andrea is the best player in Benetton roster all the way!!!


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## GNG (Aug 17, 2002)

Zidane said:


> I like him better.Looks like an 80's porn star with that cool 'stache.His name is Andrea too sounds like a girls name.PLus i cant prounounce(sp) his last name.Pretty dumb reasons but it's why i don't like him.


You're right, those are some pretty dumb reasons.

Stupid, in fact.

Really, really stupid.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

it would be a very nice statline on the blazers


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

I didn't see the game, but from what I understood he played some minutes at SF and he made one of his dunks beating with his first step the 6-5 defender on the 3point line.

Few minutes later he made a one-hand slam jumping from the free-throw line.


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

italianBBlover said:


> I didn't see the game, but from what I understood he played some minutes at SF and he made one of his dunks beating with his first step the 6-5 defender on the 3point line.
> 
> Few minutes later he made a one-hand slam jumping from the free-throw line.


VIDEOS!?!?!? Please... !? :biggrin: :angel:


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

He could greatly help our rotation. Sadly, I see us playing our way out of contention (he's top 3 for sure). 

Imagine the possibilities next year:

Blake/Telfair
Dixon/Jack
Miles/Patterson or Outlaw
Randolph/Bargnani
Pryzbilla/Ratliff

Jahidi Unit:

Blake
Sergei
Viktor
Bargnani
Pryz.


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

"Jahidi Unit"???


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

CanJohno said:


> "Jahidi Unit"???


In honor of the late great Jahidi White, I'm sure.

barfo


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

barfo said:


> In honor of the late great Jahidi White, I'm sure.
> 
> barfo


So, let me get this straight: "Jahidi" equals "2nd" (or "second")? And, if that's the case, we could also say that "White" equals "unit", no? 

Interesting, to say the least. I guess you (well, in this case "me"... but you get my point :biggrin do, in fact, learn something new every day.


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

Before we get depressed about the Blazers playing themselves out of contention, they still are only three games better than Atlanta, who has the worst record in the league. They're still in the running for a good draft pick, and maybe they can couple their pick with Detroit's and trade up for better draft position (if needed).

But that's a long ways off.


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

wastro said:


> *Before we get depressed about the Blazers playing themselves out of contention*, they still are only three games better than Atlanta, who has the worst record in the league. They're still in the running for a good draft pick, and maybe they can couple their pick with Detroit's and trade up for better draft position (if needed).


Oh, great... here comes "Laurie" to tell you how much of a "disgrace" you are.










That said, I completely agree. :biggrin:


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

CanJohno said:


> Oh, great... here comes "Laurie" to tell you how much of a "disgrace" you are.
> 
> That said, I completely agree. :biggrin:


haha no I was just thinking that's an interesting perspective on the team's successes (or lack thereof). :smile:


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## barfo (Jan 2, 2003)

CanJohno said:


> So, let me get this straight: "Jahidi" equals "2nd" (or "second")? And, if that's the case, we could also say that "White" equals "unit", no?


Well, maybe he should have just called it the White unit, but that's so much less colorful. So to speak.

barfo


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## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

barfo said:


> Well, maybe he should have just called it the White unit, but that's so much less colorful. So to speak.
> 
> barfo


I just thought it would have been too cliche to mention Bird or Chambers there. I went cryptic and came out on top.


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

Andrea Vs Sabonis's Zalgiris Kaunas 

30 minutes
17 points
6-10 fg
4-6 from 3
3 rebounds
2 steals
1 block

And a thundering facial slam on american center Tanoka Beard ...

And he was clutch, hitting 2 triples at the end of the game with still a close score (the game end 82-76 for Treviso) 

A photo after the last 3, listening the audience :banana:


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

italianBBlover said:


> Andrea Vs Sabonis's Zalgiris Kaunas
> 
> 30 minutes
> 17 points
> ...


Another nice game. The more I hear about him, the more i think he's probably the best player in this draft. 

Thanks for the updates.


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## SolidGuy3 (Apr 23, 2005)

Haven't seen much of Bargnani but is he going to be the first Italian player in the NBA?


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

I think Portland will be too good for Bargnani, but it'd be nice if he could back up Zach.


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## hasoos (Jan 3, 2003)

All I know is for there to be this many post on this guy, he must have banned a gay movie from his movie theatre chain or somethin. Bargnani certainly didn't deserve a thread this long. :eek8:


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## dkap (May 13, 2003)

> And a thundering facial slam on american center Tanoka Beard ...


Tomorrow's headline: "Beard Gets a Facial"

Dan


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

i agree with fork it does seem that Bargnani (sounds like a sandwich) is the best player in the draft lets hope the other gms dont know this or the blazers do what they can to get him.


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## SolidGuy3 (Apr 23, 2005)

NBADraft.net has him as the next Dirk. Dirk is a great player and all but he doesn't play defense. I would not want to build a team around a Dirk like player because he can't defend the Duncans, Wallaces and O'neals of the NBA.


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## zagsfan20 (Dec 24, 2004)

SolidGuy3 said:


> NBADraft.net has him as the next Dirk. Dirk is a great player and all but he doesn't play defense. I would not want to build a team around a Dirk like player because he can't defend the Duncans, Wallaces and O'neals of the NBA.


So you wouldn't take a guy like Dirk?.....a possible MVP this year...


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

SolidGuy3 said:


> Haven't seen much of Bargnani but is he going to be the first Italian player in the NBA?


No.

"Stefano Rusconi, whose rights were originally acquired in 1990, joined the Suns as a 27-year-old rookie and became the first Italian player ever to play in the NBA. His Phoenix career would be short lived as he was waived on Jan. 31, 1996."


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## SolidGuy3 (Apr 23, 2005)

zagsfan20 said:


> So you wouldn't take a guy like Dirk?.....a possible MVP this year...


Not over either of the Wallace's.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

SolidGuy3 said:


> Not over either of the Wallace's.


Glad you're not a GM.

Dirk is easily better than either of those players.


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## SolidGuy3 (Apr 23, 2005)

Fork said:


> Glad you're not a GM.
> 
> Dirk is easily better than either of those players.


Dirk can't play defense.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

SolidGuy3 said:


> Dirk can't play defense.


In case you haven't ever noticed, there are 2 baskets on the court. Offense and defense are both important. Dirk gets 26 pts and 9 rebounds per game. And his defense isn't THAT bad. His Roland rating is 4th in the league at 14.4, so I guess he isn't exactly killing his team by being on the floor.


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## SolidGuy3 (Apr 23, 2005)

Fork said:


> In case you haven't ever noticed, there are 2 baskets on the court. Offense and defense are both important. Dirk gets 26 pts and 9 rebounds per game. And his defense isn't THAT bad. His Roland rating is 4th in the league at 14.4, so I guess he isn't exactly killing his team by being on the floor.


Offense does not win championships. In the playoffs, the game is shortened and you can't fast break as much. Phoenix, Sacramento, Dallas and Portland (Early 90s) never won because they played teams who played better defense.


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## rocketeer (Oct 7, 2002)

SolidGuy3 said:


> Offense does not win championships. In the playoffs, the game is shortened and you can't fast break as much. Phoenix, Sacramento, Dallas and Portland (Early 90s) never won because they played teams who played better defense.


the courts in the playoffs are the same length. the quarters have the same number of minutes. the shot clock is the same.

if teams slow down, it's not because it is the playoffs. it either by choice or because they've come up against a better team that forced them away from their games.

i disagree that defense wins championships in basketball, because you can't score on defense. you have to play both. it just happens that in recent history the best basketball teams have been better at defense than they were at offense.


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

bargnani is a shot blocker! bargnani can play defense 

I guess cottagecheese3 never watched the video oh well


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

All the analists say that Andrea play better defense than Dirk.
Just look at his numbers about blocks; he seems to be a little more athletic than Dirk, and with quicker feets.

About the italians in NBA: in the past we had various player which were good for NBA, but for various things they didn't go to U.S.

Just SG Vincenzo Esposito played for the Raptors back in 1995-1996 (I remember his magic night at NY with 18 points in the Knicks basket), while C Stefano Rusconi played 6 o 7 games with the Suns.

But now the level of these young italians (Bargnani, Belinelli, Mancinelli, DaTome, Gallinari etc) is *light years* ahead the one of the old italian prospects of the '80s/'90s).

Ciao


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

thank you viva italia for setting the record straight about Bargnani and some person's crazy idea that he couldnt play d. 

I hope we get him that he would be a nice addition to the team! 

You didnt happen to see Patterson at any games this year? 
Patterson is rumor to have flown to see him play among other europeans but made a specail trip to watch him play and seems that he likes someone over in your neck of the woods. 

what are the league standings?


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

Italian league
19.6mpg
12.1ppg
69.6% from 2
42.9% from 3
81.1% free throws
1.1 dunks per game
5.2 rpg
1.4bpg
1.0spg

Highs
25 points
3 dunks
9 rebounds
3 blocks
4 steals

--------------

Euroleague
17.2mpg
9.1mpg
50% from 2
52% from 3
68% free throws
2.6rpg
1.0bpg
1.0spg

Highs
20 points
4 dunks
5 rebounds
3 blocks
4 steals

In the last 6 games
12 minutes, 9 points, 4 rebounds 
23 minutes, 16 points, 4 rebounds,2 steals, 2 blocks
19 minutes, 15 points, 2 rebounds
32 minutes, 20 points, 5 rebounds, 4 steals, 2 blocks
12 minutes, 4 points, 3 rebounds, 1 steal, 1 block
30 minutes, 17 points, 3 rebounds, 2 steals, 1 block


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## cpt.napalm (Feb 23, 2005)

I really like the look of those steal and block numbers.


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## Toxicity (Jul 21, 2004)

C'mon guys, even Chad Ford said "Bargnani is the real deal"! :laugh: 

Seriously, i don't see any player that deserves now the 1st position of the next draft more than Bargnani. The things could change in june but now i think so...


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

SolidGuy3 said:


> Offense does not win championships. In the playoffs, the game is shortened and you can't fast break as much. Phoenix, Sacramento, Dallas and Portland (Early 90s) never won because they played teams who played better defense.


Let's see...was Michael Jordan better offensively or defensively? Magic Johnson? Larry Bird? The list goes on and on. Great offense is important. 

And it's not as if you've ever SEEN Bargnani. You have no clue what his defense is like but scouts who HAVE seen him, say his defense is pretty decent.


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## handclap problematic (Nov 6, 2003)

His stats seem pretty good, and I have not seen him, but I am kind of concerned about his rebounding numbers. From the looks of the stat sheet at least it doesn't appear that he is all that adept at rebounding. I would like to hear more about that facet of his game.

Prunetang


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## SolidGuy3 (Apr 23, 2005)

italianBBlover said:


> All the analists say that Andrea play better defense than Dirk.
> Just look at his numbers about blocks; he seems to be a little more athletic than Dirk, and with quicker feets.
> 
> About the italians in NBA: in the past we had various player which were good for NBA, but for various things they didn't go to U.S.
> ...


Is Ginobili Italian?


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

Prunetang said:


> His stats seem pretty good, and I have not seen him, but I am kind of concerned about his rebounding numbers. From the looks of the stat sheet at least it doesn't appear that he is all that adept at rebounding. I would like to hear more about that facet of his game.
> 
> Prunetang


True, he doesn't look like he's much of a rebounder. 

In Euroleague, he's got 4 offensive and 20 defensive rebounds in 155.5 minutes played. (per 48 minutes, that'd be 7.4 rebounds...not great for a power forward)

But his defensive rebounding numbers are okay. I wonder if he's just playing away from the basket a lot more offensively, then guarding the other team's PF defensively.


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## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

SolidGuy3 said:


> Is Ginobili Italian?


He's from Argentina.


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

SolidGuy3 said:


> Is Ginobili Italian?


He's argentinian-italian.
His grandparents are from here, so he has got double citizenship.

BTW he played 4 years in Italy before joing the Spurs.


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

Prunetang said:


> His stats seem pretty good, and I have not seen him, but I am kind of concerned about his rebounding numbers. From the looks of the stat sheet at least it doesn't appear that he is all that adept at rebounding. I would like to hear more about that facet of his game.
> 
> Prunetang


Yes, he's not a rebounding freak, but anyway 5.2 rebounds in 19 mpg is not a bad number at all, no ?

He has many other qualities too, just look the blocks, the steals and the shooting percentages+range.

Then obviously, the stats don't say always all.


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## handclap problematic (Nov 6, 2003)

Yeah, ItalianBBlover, stats don't tell the whole story at all. 
Just from the numbers, it seems like rebounding isn't his strongest feature. Not that he seems horrible at it, just that he probably isn't a "monster" rebounder.

Obviously I haven't seen him play, so do you have anything to add to that based on what you have seen? I have heard that he plays a bit like a SF out there, so being on the perimeter would probably hinder his rebounding.... Thoughts?



Also, is it just me or is this guy either going to be great like Dirk, or become another Vlad Radmonivich?


Prunetang


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## Toxicity (Jul 21, 2004)

Prunetang said:


> Yeah, ItalianBBlover, stats don't tell the whole story at all.
> Just from the numbers, it seems like rebounding isn't his strongest feature. Not that he seems horrible at it, just that he probably isn't a "monster" rebounder.
> 
> Obviously I haven't seen him play, so do you have anything to add to that based on what you have seen? I have heard that he plays a bit like a SF out there, so being on the perimeter would probably hinder his rebounding.... Thoughts?


The point is just that. Andrea lately is playing more at the 3 spot than at the 4... so he's away from the basket and his rebounds numbers seem low. His coach likes playing with Bargnani at 3, because he thinks Andrea has all the tools (speed, shoot, etc.) to play SF. When he plays as PF he usually grabs more rebounds (like in Italian league)... anyway i doubt he'll become a great NBA rebounder. But he can improve a lot in few years... 



> Also, is it just me or is this guy either going to be great like Dirk, or become another Vlad Radmonivich?


I hope (and think) closer to Dirk than Radman...


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

Prunetang said:


> Also, is it just me or is this guy either going to be great like Dirk, or become another Vlad Radmonivich?


I haven't seen too much of the guy, either, but he seems to have some rather significant advantages over "The Radman". He's taller (we won't know _exactly_ how tall until he's measured this summer), quicker (including a much better "first step"), and has a better handle (which, in combination with his quickness, should allow him to create his own shot much more easily), than Vlad' Rad'. I'm not ready to crown him the next-coming of Dirk Nowitzki, or anything--partially because I haven't seen nearly enough of him, personally--but the aforementioned height advantage and abilities seem to be (at the least, a major part of) what sets Dirk apart from The Radman. Andrea is certainly putting up solid numbers (in limited minutes) in, supposedly, the second best league in the world (behind, of course, the NBA) and he's only 19. He could get a whole hell of a lot better in the next couple of years... I guess we'll see soon enough! :banana: 


Also, have you checked out the video clips that were posted in this thread? There's only two (maybe three???) of them, but they give you a nice idea of what he can do (in terms of putting the ball on the floor, shooting from the perimeter, and blocking shots). You'll need to download _DivX_ to view the clips, if you don't currently have it on your computer. Just Google, download, and install it. Then, download the clips and enjoy! :biggrin:


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

what helps him the most with his handles is that he was a guard before he squirted up in height! He looks smooth which is always a plus, someone who is smooth has to work to become a stiff!


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## Toxicity (Jul 21, 2004)

http://www.filelodge.com/files/hdd5/94287/Bargnani.avi


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## SolidGuy3 (Apr 23, 2005)

Is his named pronounced the same as "Andrea" here in the US?


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

Toxicity said:


> http://www.filelodge.com/files/hdd5/94287/Bargnani.avi


 :yes: 

The whole video is pretty nice, but that baseline drive (the first play) for the reverse jam is just sick from a 7-footer. Also, the fourth play, where he takes one dribble away from the hoop (and to his left) and pulls up for three... that's just nasty for a player his size. Nearly impossible to defend (no matter who's guarding him), without fouling him.


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## CanJohno (Feb 11, 2005)

SolidGuy3 said:


> Is his named pronounced the same as "Andrea" here in the US?


Instead of "An," like the rather common American pronunciation of Andrea, I think it's pronounced "On".

On-dre'-ah, would be my guess (as ignorant as I may or may not sound :angel. And, yes, "dre"--as in Dr. Dre'. :biggrin:


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

About the pronunce of "Andrea": you can listen the italian "version" in this clip

http://digilander.iol.it/italianbasketball/bargnani1.avi

:cheers:


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## SolidGuy3 (Apr 23, 2005)

italianBBlover said:


> About the pronunce of "Andrea": you can listen the italian "version" in this clip
> 
> http://digilander.iol.it/italianbasketball/bargnani1.jpg
> 
> :cheers:


Thanks but all I got was Pagina non travota. I guess that means page is unavailable.


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## handclap problematic (Nov 6, 2003)

CanJohno said:


> Also, have you checked out the video clips that were posted in this thread? There's only two (maybe three???) of them, but they give you a nice idea of what he can do (in terms of putting the ball on the floor, shooting from the perimeter, and blocking shots). You'll need to download _DivX_ to view the clips, if you don't currently have it on your computer. Just Google, download, and install it. Then, download the clips and enjoy! :biggrin:



Thanks, I will check them out. And I wasn't trying to be the harbinger of doom either...hehe I was just posing the Vlad Rad thought as an option to see how others who have seen Bargnani play would respond. My thinking was that if there really wasn't a good rebuttal then uh oh. But I like the responses....

Prunetang


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## italianBBlover (Mar 5, 2003)

SolidGuy3 said:


> Thanks but all I got was Pagina non travota. I guess that means page is unavailable.


ups, sorry ... now it's ok


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## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

italianBBlover said:


> Andrea Vs Sabonis's Zalgiris Kaunas
> 
> A photo after the last 3, listening the audience :banana:


I know its OT, but anyway about audience in Treviso. I was in that game as I travelled smth like 1100 miles with bus from Lithuania to Italy. We 60 fans of Zalgiris I think outchanted all the thousands of Treviso crowd till the last minutes, when Benetton got the final victory. Only then the audience started 
to cheer loader than us. Ok done my braging and Im out of this thread


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## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

zel could you tell us what you think of Bargs or the game itself?


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## Zalgirinis (Feb 18, 2003)

Utherhimo said:


> zel could you tell us what you think of Bargs or the game itself?


Well, I dont think I should talk/repeat stuff about Bargnani when theres someone other who paid much more attention to him than me in this game. Its from Carlo Sandrinelli in DraxtExpress.com Daily
http://www.draftexpress.com/dedaily.php?p=535



> ”It was the usual show from Bargnani. Both of his 2-point field goals were dunks in traffic finishing a penetration, as he seemed to be able to beat his man off the dribble quite easily and take it strong to the hoop. His outside shot looked even better than usual. He hit two back-to-back and decisive treys to seal Benetton's win in the final minutes, bringing the score from 74-72 to 80-72, and looked very comfortable shooting after rolling on the pick & roll. He doesn't even seem to need any rhythm on his shot. On the defensive end, he and his teammates did a good job on Tanoka Beard and Darjus Lavrinovic, and his attitude as always looked OK. He again had a bit of foul trouble which forced him to the bench for most of the 4th quarter; he managed it pretty well once he got back on the court, though. It's interesting to note that Benetton (which has many injured guards, especially Zisis and Soragna, and has to rotate 7 men since a couple of months ago) played many minutes with Bargnani, Goree and Slokar together. In this situation, Bargnani played even more than usual as a SF, not having too many problems with it. Finally, even if he pulled down just 3 rebounds, he looked decently aggressive and focused, although sometimes suffering from the boxing out of Zalgiris' big men.”


I pretty much agree what Carlo said about Bargnani. I wasnt following him much and was more into chanting, booing and supporting my team in the stands. What can I say about the game itself. It was really high quality game with some exciting plays as well. Zalgiris kept with Benetton for the whole game, sadly in the end we made few defensive mistakes and luck or not Benetton made 3 triples in a row with 2 minutes to go. I wont go into details because it would need to get long as I suppose you hardly know the situation of both teams and its rosters. On a short note Zalgiris this season was really bad on the road in Euroleague (2-4 record, while 5-0 at home) and in this game the road syndrom wasnt felt, so even if we lost we could see some bright spots in our game. Benetton were missing 2 main players and had a shorter bench than usual, so they were happy with this win even if they didnt overcome the points difference, which could be important if teams are tied at the end of regular season (Zalgiris won by 18 at home).


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## doomshades (Jun 29, 2006)

he looks real young athletic. maybe he'll get a chance to break out and develop in the league. as some say he'd probably end up just like darko milicic, i'd say that wont be possible. darko landed on a strong team. well, good luck andrea... (feels like talking to a girl. lol)


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## wastro (Dec 19, 2004)

It's kind of funny -- but entirely appropriate, considering how crazy this draft was -- that Andrea practically went from the 'sleeper' and 'unknown' of the draft to the consensus #1 as soon as Toronto won the lottery. And that never seriously changed in the month between the lottery and the draft.


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## Pain5155 (May 28, 2006)

The next Dirk.


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