# Clippers may be going after Joe Johnson



## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/309599p-264954c.html 



> Although the Suns are confident they will re-sign Johnson this summer, the Clippers are planning a retaliatory strike for losing Quentin Richardson last summer to Phoenix.


----------



## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

Looks like they read my postings hahaha! :banana:


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Only way we get JJ is if we offer max dollars and I'd do it.

If you get JJ though, you let Simmons go because there's no reason to pay him 5-6 mil starting to be a backup, and though I do feel management doesn't have a problem with being a little over the cap, it would have to be just that, a little.


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

although i do believe that they will go after him as a third option (if they decide not to get a superstar in the future) if they cannot get allen or redd, this article definately means nothing. First of all, here we go again with people 3000 miles away commentings on things cross country..kind of like the florida guy with allen. Also, its a downright STUPID comment. The clippers are childish enough to "retalliate". Please. Nba teams do not throw near max contracts around just to "retalliate", let alone the most money smart man's team in the nba, sterling. Also, the clippers did not "lose" q to the suns last year as if he was stolen away, thus necessitating retaliation. They LET Q go because they wanted to save room for a possible superstar, or at the very least a running mate for magette who can dribble, not to mention the doctors caution about q's health. 

Anyway, might the suns offer JJ max money? yes. Should the clippers? No. Is he worth the max? No. HEs a good player, and versitile. But hes not deserving of max money even on most teams. Hes only averaged double figures 2 years. Hes never averaged that close to 20 points, his highest output being this year. He hasnt proven that he can be THE go to guy on the team in the clutch. He hasnt had to with the suns, but thats besides the point. he hasnt proven that he ccan/cant. His numbers over the first 4 years arent much better than maggette overall. Because of his versitlity, he should get more than maggette did after his fourth year, but twice as much? no way. 

I wouldnt mind johnson on the team...he would be one of the only things i would be happy with outside of getting a superstar. If we can get him and simmons and go with a smaller lineup. However, i dont think hes worth max to many teams in the league, let alone the team that never overpays people. Hes better than Q for the clippers of course because of his dribbling ability and defense, but i still dont see him as anything more than a long distance third option for the clippers management this year..


----------



## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Will the Suns match Johnson? Maybe, the Suns already have Nash on a big contract, Q on a nice contract, and Amare will be a restricted free-agent at the end of the next season and will be getting a MAX deal. The Suns could match Johnson but a trade would be in the works the following season to clear room for Amare.


----------



## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

yamaneko said:


> Anyway, might the suns offer JJ max money? yes. Should the clippers? No. Is he worth the max? No. HEs a good player, and versitile. But hes not deserving of max money even on most teams. Hes only averaged double figures 2 years. Hes never averaged that close to 20 points, his highest output being this year. He hasnt proven that he can be THE go to guy on the team in the clutch. He hasnt had to with the suns, but thats besides the point. he hasnt proven that he ccan/cant. His numbers over the first 4 years arent much better than maggette overall. Because of his versitlity, he should get more than maggette did after his fourth year, but twice as much? no way.


Using your logic, T Mac was not worth the MAX after his Toronto years. MAX money is about $10 million. Are you telling me you would rather give Bobby Simmons $6 million then give JJ $10 million? Joe Johnson would make the Clippers a playoff team IMO. How much is that worth to you? I am sure a whole lot more than $4 million per year. He is a better player than Maggette.


----------



## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Weasel said:


> Will the Suns match Johnson? Maybe, the Suns already have Nash on a big contract, Q on a nice contract, and Amare will be a restricted free-agent at the end of the next season and will be getting a MAX deal. The Suns could match Johnson but a trade would be in the works the following season to clear room for Amare.


Don't forget the Suns also have Shawn Marion on a near max contract. I've always felt that the Suns (despite what ownership says) are in a tough spot, it's eerily similar to the position the Nets were in last year when Denver was hot after Kenyon Martin. Obvious difference here is that Joe Johnson will be a lot more worth the money.

What would you guys be willing to give up, if it came down to a sign and trade for Johnson?


----------



## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

PhillyPhanatic said:


> Don't forget the Suns also have Shawn Marion on a near max contract. I've always felt that the Suns (despite what ownership says) are in a tough spot, it's eerily similar to the position the Nets were in last year when Denver was hot after Kenyon Martin. Obvious difference here is that Joe Johnson will be a lot more worth the money.
> 
> What would you guys be willing to give up, if it came down to a sign and trade for Johnson?



You are right I did forget about Marion and his contract. If a sign and trade came along the only possible thing I could see is that Maggette and probably some filler would go for Johnson. It seems like some newspapers think Maggette would be trade bait if any Clipper was to be traded.


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

MemphisX said:


> Using your logic, T Mac was not worth the MAX after his Toronto years. MAX money is about $10 million. Are you telling me you would rather give Bobby Simmons $6 million then give JJ $10 million? Joe Johnson would make the Clippers a playoff team IMO. How much is that worth to you? I am sure a whole lot more than $4 million per year. He is a better player than Maggette.


Please come back and read his posts more often.

I no longer need the Dave Chappelle Show, because yama is pure comedy.


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

> Using your logic, T Mac was not worth the MAX after his Toronto years.


Definately was not. ANd after his toronto years, he didnt get a max contract, unless 7 years 90 million was a max back then. In retrospect of course mcgrady was worth almost whatever money he could have been given. 

I would not give simmons 6 million as a start, no, because that would mean that contract is probably 8-10 by the end of it. 6 million as an average contract for sure for someone who is proven in the clippers system, as opposed to max money for someone who puts up similar numbers, while not having experience with dunleavvy. Remember, rarely have the clippers ever even considered giving big money to players who havent played with us. I think the only time i can remember of a player who isnt a superstar where this happened was arenas...and the papers said that to go after him was one of the requsites of dunleavvy coming to the team...to show that the clippers were dedicated to putting together a team and spend money. 

Johnson and magette are completely different kinds of players. Id say johnson has more upside, but looking at numbers, magette puts up better numbers for the clippers. Johnson definately the better dribbler and passer and this year, a better three point shooter. Maggette kills us at the end of games, but outside of a superstar im not sure if id be willing to give him up and his contract to get a second tier guy like hughes, johnson, etc. 

If the suns can keep a winning team ,they might not mind being over the cap. I believe that NBA rules state that you can always resign your own players, correct me if im wrong. THings i have read make it seem like the suns want to keep this team together. Thats why i said they should match any contract given to him. Time will tell though. ANything can happen. Who knows, this injury might knock him out of the playoffs all together, lowering his value to them.

we dont have much to offer for sign and trade for johnson. And if we did i couldnt see it happening. The only reason the suns dont keep him i think is if they decide they dont want to pay him max money....but that would mean the clippers do want to pay him max money, and i dont see sterling giving the go ahead for paying max money to someone who hasnt paid for the clipps, isnt a superstar, and has never averaged more than 17 points. Many teams in the league definately wood but it doesnt seem like sterlings style.


----------



## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

yamaneko said:


> Anyway, might the suns offer JJ max money? yes. Should the clippers? No. Is he worth the max? No. HEs a good player, and versitile. But hes not deserving of max money even on most teams. Hes only averaged double figures 2 years. Hes never averaged that close to 20 points, his highest output being this year. He hasnt proven that he can be THE go to guy on the team in the clutch. He hasnt had to with the suns, but thats besides the point. he hasnt proven that he ccan/cant. His numbers over the first 4 years arent much better than maggette overall. Because of his versitlity, he should get more than maggette did after his fourth year, but twice as much? no way.
> 
> I wouldnt mind johnson on the team...he would be one of the only things i would be happy with outside of getting a superstar. If we can get him and simmons and go with a smaller lineup. However, i dont think hes worth max to many teams in the league, let alone the team that never overpays people. Hes better than Q for the clippers of course because of his dribbling ability and defense, but i still dont see him as anything more than a long distance third option for the clippers management this year..


A rare day, but I agree with you Yam I dont think he is worth the max. And I dont believe the Suns are going to let him go. I think even this conversation is a waste of time.


----------



## TheClipSHow11 (Jul 22, 2004)

With all the players the suns have - and their #1 priority is to lock up Amare! I think the clippers could make a good run at JJ. I would love a backcourt of JJ and Livingston!!


----------



## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

Maybe the Suns won't let him go, but at least we'd make them pay to keep him, besides it would only make it easier to go after Amare next season. :biggrin:


----------



## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

What do you guys think of Johnson's defense?
I think one of the reason's Q was let go was his lack of defense. Dunleavy is very defensive minded.


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

havent seen it nor read about it enough to have an opinion. But at the end of games, its not necessarily defense that hurts the clippers, its the lack of the go to player.


----------



## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

yamaneko said:


> havent seen it nor read about it enough to have an opinion. But at the end of games, its not necessarily defense that hurts the clippers, its the lack of the go to player.


That is true even the announcers were aware of this and mentioned it one game.


----------



## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0603sunsnb0603.html 



> Cleveland, the Los Angeles Clippers and Atlanta are expected to have the most interest in Johnson, who wanted a six-year, $50 million deal before the season. Managing owner Robert Sarver did not offer more than $45 million but Johnson could wind up with a contract worth $10 million annually. A new collective bargaining agreement may cut the contract length to five years.


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

surprised about atlanta inasmuch as they have a lot of young wing players, not to mention are expected to choose marvin williams in the draft. 

Clippers im sure have interest in him, but i still dont think they flat out offer him until allen and redd are either resigned, or sign with other teams. And i dont see sterling investing so much in him which will mean they cant get a superstar in the future barring trade....stranger things have happend for sure, but it would be very strange if sterling resigned simmons AND gave johnson 50 million. Maybe if they dont resign simmons. or if they trade magette.


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Clips need to be smart for once.

Don't waste time on Redd or Allen, they're not signing with us, period.

I like JJ, but 6 years, 50 million is wishful thinking, that was BEFORE this year. It will take a max contract to get him out of Phoenix, and I would give it to him. If Sarver wouldn't give him more than 45 million this past offseason, I don't see them matching a max deal this year, plus they have to give Amare a max contract too, I don't think they can afford to give 2 max contracts this summer.


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Its not a waste of time going after redd and allen. Both are unrestricted free agents. Clippers probably know the only way they have a chance to get either is to offer a max contract. You offer it, make peridodic calls and meetings to hype the organization, no significant time lost. 

Johnson to the clippers is not worth 6 years 50 million, and DEFINATELY not worth the max to the clipps. If the clippers lose simmons, or trade magette, he would be a nice pickup, but i dont think the suns let him go for the money that the clippers would offer him. going after johnson could definately be considered a possible waste of time, since tendering him a contract, and having him sign it will hold the clippers up for 15 days, with the likelyhood that the suns match. 

Before, i outlined the only other way i saw johnson as a good fit with the clippers, is if the clippers put kaman on the bench, and start a suns-type lineup. However, that still was only a fantasy scenario since i dont see sterling overpaying a non superstar, non proven clutch player, etc.


----------



## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

yamaneko said:


> Its not a waste of time going after redd and allen. Both are unrestricted free agents. Clippers probably know the only way they have a chance to get either is to offer a max contract. You offer it, make peridodic calls and meetings to hype the organization, no significant time lost.


I'm just trying to understand something here, are you saying Michael Redd is worth the max and Joe Johnson isn't?


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

To the clippers, yes. Possibly to many other teams as well. Im sure its the opposite for some teams, but within the clippers needs, definately.

Clippers have been looking for a couple of years for someone who is a big time scorer. A player who has carried his team. A player with experience of getting the ball in crunch time for your team, and taking the shot. A player with a track record of clutch plays. Redd is a bonified star now, and for the past couple of years has been looked at as one of the, if not the most pure shooters in the league. At times he can just go crazy from outside, and has been the go to guy on the bucks the last couple of years. An all star. 

Johnson is a good player, but has never been a go to guy for his team, since he hasnt had to. Hes never been that guy you can look to to take over a game on the offensive end. Hes a streaky shooter from outside, made a lot of 3's this year, about as many as his first 3 years in the league combined, but thats due to the new system the suns coach brought...a system that dunleavvy does not have. If he would have put up the kind of 3point numbers and percentages at least 2 years, that might be a different story. 

Johnson is valuable to many teams because of his ball handling. That he can do as well as any similar player his size. Redd definately is not the ball handler johnson is. But again, what the clippers needed last year was a go to player, an all star that either was going to get the ball in crunch time, or who would have drawn defenses away from his teammates, since the other team assumed he would get the ball. Something that johnson is not yet at this point in his career. 

Johnson the last two years has averaged 16 points and some change. Redd over 22 points a game. Johnson is better all around, but redd fits into what the clippers need more. Even when the bucks played the clippers, they showed what the clippers didnt have, as redd took over the game at the end, and won a close one for them, while the clippers fumbled around. 

Am i 100% sure redd is worth the max? No...im not sure if sterling thinks so neither. Hes not ray allen. However, to the clippers, if one of the players was worth the max, between redd and johnson, it would have to be johnson because of his pure shooting, and game changing ability. Its no disrespect to joe, as i said, im sure to plenty of other teams, johnson might be worth more than redd.


----------



## RD (Jun 10, 2002)

Johnson is worth more than 6 years, 50mill. We're talking Darius Miles money, and money similar to what Simmons may get. Johnson is definitely worth more. He's easily a 6 year, 60 guy. Not a max, but he's a damn good player and is worth that.

He'd help us a lot. He'd much needed ball handling on the wing, because Maggette, Simmons, and Ross are all average or below average in that regard. He can create off the dribble for himself or others. He's a great deep shooter. He can play very good defense on the perimeter.

He's not a superstar, and not a goto player. But he still brings traits we could really use. Id love to see him here on a 6 year, 60 deal. And I think Phoenix would have a tough deal matching that with Stoudemire's looming max deal to go with the NAsh, Marion, and Richardson deals.


----------



## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

I think that a max deal with tie him up. But I doubt the Clippers will give him that.


----------



## thekid (Apr 3, 2003)

Livingston, Johnson, Maggette, Brand, Kaman? That's nice.


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

When were talking specific Team needs, directly related to value, its hard to compare to other teams. Thats like saying, hey, golden state paid adonl foyle 6 years 52 million dollars, so that must mean rebraca is worth the max. 

But, i shouldnt have gone off of that article anyway. I think we will have an NBA lockout before they agree for this 6/7 year contract thing again, were going to have a different scale i think, and signs are pointing to the 4/5 year contract. What we could talk about then i guess is starting contract value. 

Simmons for one. I do not think that the clippers will pay him a starting contract value of more than 6 million....POSSIBLY 7 million. Thats why i never have been too optomistic about resigning him. ALl signs point to the clippers resigning him, but still, i have a feeling that his agent will have him going for a lot bigger money. But im trying to think positive for once, and assume that maybe that wont happen, and simmons agrees to such a contract. That would still leave the clippers money open to go after a big contract that they have wanted to in free agency. However, if simmons jumps ship, that would make johnson more valuable. as i said, i see no way we pay simmons a long term deal, then also pay johnson a deal starting at 8 million or more, when one of them will be sitting on the bench, and with the ownerships desire for a superstar player down the drain for at least 4 years. If simmons is not signed, it might be a different story. johnson could be brought on to play the role kittles was supposed to be able to do this year. Clippers might be willing to pay more money now, however, how high are the suns willing to go to match. Thats why i feel its a lose lose situation with johnson. Even if the clippers do get him, we probably would have to OVERPAY him, with a max contract, tying up our cap money for a few years. And no matter what we offer him, theres always the chance that the suns match. The only way i see us going after johnson thus, AND offering him 8 million-max deal, is if we 1. lose simmons, and 2. sterling decides to shelve his superstar plans for a few years until lebron james becomes an Unrestricted FA, and then making another kobe like run at him.


----------



## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Oh man, I really hope there isn't a lockout. Hopefully they settle on new terms and these new terms are going to change the perspective on a lot of things.


----------



## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/ian_thomsen/06/08/inside.nba/ 



> he Phoenix Suns are quietly putting out word that they will match any offer to restricted free agent Joe Johnson -- even a max contract worth more than $10 million. The investment would pay off over the longterm, because Johnson could be prepared to take over at point guard as Steve Nash gets older.


----------



## Free Arsenal (Nov 8, 2004)

Well, we need Simmons, that's the number one priority, Johnson is a second priority.


----------



## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

I think it was mentioned a few days ago on ESPN radio that the Clippers will be looking to sign Joe for big money.


----------



## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Free Arsenal said:


> Well, we need Simmons, that's the number one priority, Johnson is a second priority.


??


----------



## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

If the Clippers plan to throw him a contract, they should throw him a "Heat" like contract, a front loaded to the Max, where the 1st year payout is 25+ Million.

-Petey


----------



## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

With the suns, if they are set on getting him, i doubt that will make much of a difference. Their owner is not exactly the money savvy guy our owner is, and it probably wouldnt deter them much.


----------

