# Hinrich Is Expendable



## Ja Rule (Mar 23, 2005)

All this talk about Curry leaving or trading Nocioni and Davis, but what about Hinrich?

We need a big 2 guard so that teams just won't take advantage of us in that position. When it comes to the playoffs, our players will be tired out and its a weakness that will be exploited dearly. 

Take Hirich with Davis, who's contract expires which will be tempting to many teams and go get a 2. That or go after Bobby Simmons in free agency. I know some people here will disagree with moving their hero Hinrich, but it could be for the better for the team. Gordon needs 35MPG.


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## truebluefan (May 27, 2002)

possible. No one player is untoiuchable. 

So who can we get with Hinrich and AD?


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Ja Rule said:


> All this talk about Curry leaving or trading Nocioni and Davis, but what about Hinrich?
> 
> We need a big 2 guard so that teams just won't take advantage of us in that position. When it comes to the playoffs, our players will be tired out and its a weakness that will be exploited dearly.
> 
> Take Hirich with Davis, who's contract expires which will be tempting to many teams and go get a 2. That or go after Bobby Simmons in free agency. I know some people here will disagree with moving their hero Hinrich, but it could be for the better for the team. Gordon needs 35MPG.


Gordon needs development time before Hinrich becomes expendable. Duhon is the only other player on this team that can run the offense, as proven by the win in Toronto.

Gordon excels at shooting, and getting his shot off. His passing efficiency has been awful this season, has been foul prone (otherwise his mpg would be much higher than it currently is), and has been turnover prone. This is not the someone you want running the team in the near-term.

Currently, I would only trade Hinrich for someone in the Richard Hamilton mold; a playmaker, excellent mid range shooter (to come off the Curls we like to run), and can play some defense.


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

We win one road game without the dude, and all of the sudden he is expendable?

I agree that nobody is untouchable, but come on, lets not get ahead of ourselves.


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

I'm open to listening to trade ideas for anyone as long as there are worthy players coming back. I'm not convinced that Curry/Chandler/Noc/Deng/Hinrich/Gordon/Duhon have a championship caliber five man starting squad in them...

Of course I love the depth and youth we have...but there isn't a big guard among them to even throw in for variety and there isn't a really complete big man. Since complete big men are hard to find, we'd at least need one more skilled big to bolster our frankenstein front line. 

I'm not eager to make a trade involving any of our core nor am I eager to let anyone (Duhon) go for nothing. If Kirk could pull back a Rip type player (Joe Johnson...! And JJ can sorta run a team...) or if Ben could pull back a guy like JJ or Maggette, I'd think about it. I'm not going to spend too much time thinking about it on my own, though, because I'd really prefer to see everyone mature and gel. Come what may.


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

Ja Rule said:


> All this talk about Curry leaving or trading Nocioni and Davis, but what about Hinrich?
> 
> We need a big 2 guard so that teams just won't take advantage of us in that position. When it comes to the playoffs, our players will be tired out and its a weakness that will be exploited dearly.
> 
> Take Hirich with Davis, who's contract expires which will be tempting to many teams and go get a 2. That or go after Bobby Simmons in free agency. I know some people here will disagree with moving their hero Hinrich, but it could be for the better for the team. Gordon needs 35MPG.


miz is soooo not going to talk to you now.


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## mizenkay (Dec 29, 2003)

PC Load Letter said:


> miz is soooo not going to talk to you now.


miz doesn't talk to strangers.


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## Wynn (Jun 3, 2002)

PC Load Letter said:


> miz is soooo not going to talk to you now.


Which may just keep him from getting banned yet again!


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

Seriously, I need a rundown here...I'm not good at spotting people under new names. I have a feeling I know who Ja Rule is () but what...NENV=MrT? QWERTY=~~~? BBS=Sloth? What other big developments am I in the dark on? 

Bullsville=K4E? GB=TB1? BealeFarange=RunToFreeForFly?

Is there a directory here? Help a brutha out!


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

Ja don't rule.

J/K. I agree that the big 2 guard is on the wish list. I don't know that that makes Hinrich "expendable," but just like anyone else on the team, if it makes the team better, you move him.


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

BealeFarange said:


> Seriously, I need a rundown here...I'm not good at spotting people under new names. I have a feeling I know who Ja Rule is () but what...NENV=MrT? QWERTY=~~~? BBS=Sloth? What other big developments am I in the dark on?
> 
> Bullsville=K4E? GB=TB1? BealeFarange=RunToFreeForFly?
> 
> Is there a directory here? Help a brutha out!


superdave=ace20004u

Either that or they just decided to wear matching avatars. How cute!


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

PC Load Letter said:


> superdave=ace20004u
> 
> Either that or they just decided to wear matching avatars. How cute!


Don't forget BenDengGo. We're just waiting for you to join our little treehouse club PCLoad. It even has your favorite player in the avatar (the guy standing next to Tyson howling like a wolf)


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

superdave said:


> Don't forget BenDengGo. We're just waiting for you to join our little treehouse club PCLoad. It even has your favorite player in the avatar (the guy standing next to Tyson howling like a wolf)


Soon our evil plan to take over the bbb.net will come to fruition! (rubs hands together evily and stares maniacly)

:banana:


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## Mr. T (Jan 29, 2004)

Ja Rule said:


> All this talk about Curry leaving or trading Nocioni and Davis, but what about Hinrich?
> 
> We need a big 2 guard so that teams just won't take advantage of us in that position. When it comes to the playoffs, our players will be tired out and its a weakness that will be exploited dearly.
> 
> Take Hirich with Davis, who's contract expires which will be tempting to many teams and go get a 2. That or go after Bobby Simmons in free agency. I know some people here will disagree with moving their hero Hinrich, but it could be for the better for the team. Gordon needs 35MPG.












Gipper sighting?


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## PC Load Letter (Jun 29, 2002)

superdave said:


> Don't forget BenDengGo. We're just waiting for you to join our little treehouse club PCLoad. It even has your favorite player in the avatar (the guy standing next to Tyson howling like a wolf)


I feel so...dirty.


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

Mr. T said:


> Gipper sighting?


 I'm thinking negative. Read his other posts. Doesn't sound Gipperesque. But intriguing nonetheless...


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## Mr. T (Jan 29, 2004)

ace20004u said:


> Soon our evil plan to take over the bbb.net will come to fruition! (rubs hands together evily and stares maniacly)
> 
> :banana:


Sure you don't mean "come to fruit"?! Ben Gordon - :laugh:


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

PC Load Letter said:


> I feel so...dirty.


 :gbanana: :banana: :bbanana: :rbanana: 

:buddies: :cheers: 

Love the avatar PCLoad. Fits like a glove


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## Mr. T (Jan 29, 2004)

sp00k said:


> I'm thinking negative. Read his other posts. Doesn't sound Gipperesque. But intriguing nonetheless...


I figured a guy with only six posts and already ripping on Hinrich and hero worship must mean "Gip is in the thread". 

It only seems to lack his rapid fire posting style, although that may be attributed to Gips need to standby temporarily while he berates the janitor or pays homage to some deserving soul who has "reciprocated" respect back to the Gip.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

[email protected] T

I don't think that is Gipper, different IP, and Gipper doesn't seem like the Murder Inc. Jarule type...


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

Ja Rule said:


> All this talk about Curry leaving or trading Nocioni and Davis, but what about Hinrich?
> 
> We need a big 2 guard so that teams just won't take advantage of us in that position. When it comes to the playoffs, our players will be tired out and its a weakness that will be exploited dearly.
> 
> Take Hirich with Davis, who's contract expires which will be tempting to many teams and go get a 2. That or go after Bobby Simmons in free agency. I know some people here will disagree with moving their hero Hinrich, but it could be for the better for the team. Gordon needs 35MPG.


I've got a bold, crazy, outrageous idea... I say we actually wait until the playoffs happen and see if we actually get taken advantage of in that position. [sarcasm]I realize our coach is an idiot[/sarcasm], but it's possible that we might actually play enough *team defense* that our opponents' SG doesn't go off for 40 points on 15-20 shooting every night. It's also possible that Kirk is a good enough defender to handle SGs who are 3 inches taller than him. 

I know this makes a hell of a lot less sense than getting a Hinrich and Davis for a big 2 guard trade all ready to go now even though we can't trade them until our season is over at least 6 weeks, but call me crazy. 

I'm sorry, I'll get out of here with that insane talk now..........


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## superdave (Jul 16, 2002)

ace20004u said:


> [email protected] T
> 
> I don't think that is Gipper, different IP, and Gipper doesn't seem like the Murder Inc. Jarule type...


Yeah the Gips is definitely more Ace of Base and Rick Astley


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

Mr. T said:


> I figured a guy with only six posts and already ripping on Hinrich and hero worship must mean "Gip is in the thread".
> 
> It only seems to lack his rapid fire posting style, although that may be attributed to *Gips need to standby temporarily while he berates the janitor or pays homage to some deserving soul who has "reciprocated" respect back to the Gip*.


:rotf:

OMG, I owe you like 5 rep points for that one! :clap:

I do have to say one thing, at least JaRule says he is 18, that's a lot more believable than Gip's usual "I'm in Law School" claims.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

bullsville said:


> :rotf:
> 
> OMG, I owe you like 5 rep points for that one! :clap:
> 
> I do have to say one thing, at least JaRule says he is 18, that's a lot more believable than Gip's usual "I'm in Law School" claims.



Hey, they have online law schools now! lol :biggrin:


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

ace20004u said:


> Hey, they have online law schools now! lol :biggrin:


I'm sure it's in here somewhere...

The Most Prestigious Online Law School Directory 

But hey, he knows Mayor Daley. Now let us all kneel before his greatness.


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## BealeFarange (May 22, 2004)

Dang, Ja Rule, if you're new to the block...welcome. Sorry about the Gipper allegations.
Circumstancial evidence...as Gip himself would tell us. 

I still won't forgive that second song with Ashanti, though... :vomit:


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## Sir Patchwork (Jan 12, 2005)

You're not going to find many players who can defend the shooting guard as well as Hinrich does. So trading Hinrich to get a bigger guard for defensive purposes just doesn't make sense, unless the other team is getting ripped off in the deal (ie Hinrich for Kobe, etc). 

Not to mention, we'd have to play Duhon at the point for 40 minutes per game, since he is the only guy outside of Hinrich who can handle the ball efficiently. Gordon is a shooting guard. I think Duhon would get eaten up playing 40 minutes per game.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> We win one road game without the dude, and all of the sudden he is expendable?
> 
> I agree that nobody is untouchable, but come on, lets not get ahead of ourselves.


Same logic on Eddy Curry:

We lose five games without the dude, and all of the sudden he is expendable?

I agree that nobody is untouchable, but come on, lets not get ahead of ourselves.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

sloth said:


> Same logic on Eddy Curry:
> 
> We lose five games without the dude, and all of the sudden he is expendable?
> 
> I agree that nobody is untouchable, but come on, lets not get ahead of ourselves.


I agree.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

What I don't get is that Kirk and Eddy are obviously our two best players. It is undebatable in my opinion. And everyone wants to run one of them out of town. Why is that?


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

sloth said:


> *What I don't get is that Kirk and Eddy are obviously our two best players. It is undebatable in my opinion.* And everyone wants to run one of them out of town. Why is that?


The thing is, Kirk and Eddy are not "obviously our two best players" in the eyes of many Bulls fans. If they were, people wouldn't be wanting to run one of them out of town.

And for the 147,098 billionth time, I don't want Eddy run out of town. I'd like to see Eddy accept a reasonable contract and stay here, I just don't see any way in hell that happens. 

Jamal could have stayed a Bull, didn't Paxson offer him a contract? He decided to take more money to go elsewhere, which is certainly his right. Too bad he didn't believe in Paxson and Skiles way of doing things, he could have still been a multi-millionaire but on a winning team.

But no, he thought there was a "hidden agenda" in Chicago, and he thought he was going to a "better organization". So far, he's 0-2 and hasn't even taken the bat off his shoulders.

Eddy is going to have the same decision, at least that's what I honestly believe. We shall see if he takes less money to stay in his hometown with a winning organization or if he takes more money to go elsewhere.

I'm guessing Eddy follows the green.


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## spongyfungy (Oct 22, 2003)

Sir Patchwork said:


> You're not going to find many players who can defend the shooting guard as well as Hinrich does. So trading Hinrich to get a bigger guard for defensive purposes just doesn't make sense, unless the other team is getting ripped off in the deal (ie Hinrich for Kobe, etc).
> 
> Not to mention, we'd have to play Duhon at the point for 40 minutes per game, since he is the only guy outside of Hinrich who can handle the ball efficiently. Gordon is a shooting guard. I think Duhon would get eaten up playing 40 minutes per game.


This is a very good point.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

*bullsville* <script type="text/javascript"> vbmenu_register("postmenu_2034074", true); </script> 
Eddy Curry Sucks <-------


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## TomBoerwinkle#1 (Jul 31, 2002)

bullsville said:


> I'm guessing Eddy follows the green.












Maybe true, but as you alude to in your Jamal comments, there are many ways to measure the bounty of the pasture. This is a team that has gone from the pite to being winners. If Eddy stays for less than a max contract, whatever that may be under the new CBA, and really turns himself into a star, a high profile, big market team like the Bulls could position him to more than make up for the less than max salary in endorsements. A young man, a true center, part of an exciting yourng team which has pulled itself out of the gutter and is headed to -- well, that remains to be seen, but if they start contending, there is plenty of money and exposure to exploit.

There are only so many teams who are in a position to make Eddy a max type offer this offseason, and if I recall correctly, most are not major market teams. KG and Tim Duncan are very wealthy men, but I have no doubt they'd be worth a heck of a lot more in endorsements and public appearance fees if they were playing in NY, LA or a revitalized Chicago.


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## bigdbucks (Jun 7, 2002)

i was actually talking about this same thing a couple days ago. This isn't gunna be a top tier team but it can be. I think that we will have to trade a few guys. First off Hinrich/Gordon/Duhon is a good 3 guard rotation but they are all undersized to play 2 guard. We will have to trade 1 of them and i think that Gordon has the most upside and has a chance to be a superstar. Duhon doesn't have trade value and could provide us w/ a great backup PG. sooo that leaves Hinrich, and he obviously has the most trade value so he's gotta be the one to go. Of course Gordon needs to learn how to run the point also. 
Next Luol Deng and Andres Nocioni, one of them has to go. The obvious choice here is Noc. Love him to death but he should be a starter and Luol is the starter for the Bulls PLUS hes like 20 years old!!! 
Chandler and Curry is the next situation. We went on that skid w/out EC but EC doesn't bring the hustle and rebounding TC does. I think eventually EC will get a feel for rebounding. These guys, IMO, can't play together, we need a PF that can hit a midrange J and TC can't. I think that TC will be gone. Championship teams need an inside prescence? WHO GOES? WHO STAYS? 

So who can we get? i don't know but the core of Gordon, Deng, Curry, and Duhon is pretty good start. just my 2 cents


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

As long as we have Gordon... and he does not possess PG skills.... we're going to be undersized at the 2.

Its tough to find a tall PG that can adequately guard opposing 2s.

Paxson knew this when he drafted Gordon. Its something he's going to have to live with. Given Gordon's early success... it seems like the gamble paid off.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> *bullsville* <script type="text/javascript"> vbmenu_register("postmenu_2034074", true); </script>
> Eddy Curry Sucks <-------


I hope you lke my new tag line better.


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## bullet (Jul 1, 2003)

As much as I love Kirk and think he's our best player for now (I think Deng and Ben have bigger potential) Noone is untouchable.

But a trade like that has to make us stronger , that means getting a very good player back.Or even 2 players if we send AD's expirer with him. 

But then we also Must keep Duhon.

Still - I will find it very very hard to let Kirk go , and I prefer he stays , I think we gotta get better with him , it's hard to find gutsy players as he is , though I hope we grow as a team to make him 3rd-4th option on offense , and he'd still be the heart and soul in turms of character , defense and hard work.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

bullsville said:


> I hope you lke my new tag line better.


I just thought it was ironic that you were posting how you like Curry.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

BealeFarange said:


> I'm open to listening to trade ideas for anyone as long as there are worthy players coming back. I'm not convinced that Curry/Chandler/Noc/Deng/Hinrich/Gordon/Duhon have a championship caliber five man starting squad in them...


Actually, I gotta say I AM convinced that group can be championship caliber (key word being "can"). Seeing how good this team is when there are 4 rookies, 1 second year player, and 2 high school projects...I'm simply amazed by their potential. Imagine how good they can be when Deng and Gordon develop a little more and take on bigger roles...the voids of the current Bulls team (most notably scoring) will begin to vanish. 

I would only trade Hinrich if we were getting a bigtime player in return...I understand this team needs a big SG, but I know one thing from watching Hinrich play...the kid defends opposing 2-guards better than MOST 2-guards in this league do.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

What about we trade Antonio Davis for Jalen Rose and the Raptors first round pick. An expiring contract for the guy noone wants, along with their pick. Jalen rose posseses point guard skills. The problem is that he is the short fix for the problem Jalen also has shooting guard skills to play next to Kirk. But who is a guy that isn't Jalen which would be more ideal then Jalen being here.

Also, JP only offered Jamal Crawford an MLE offer. Of course Crawford would reject it, becaue HE thinks that he is a near max guy.


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## Shanghai Kid (Mar 7, 2003)

What would you guys think about some kind of Hinrich and filler for Larry Hughes sign and trade?


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## Ja Rule (Mar 23, 2005)

Damn, didn't know this sorta topic would blast off like this. 

First, I ain't Gip Gipson or whoever that cat is. Second to that cat who was being sarcastic, bullsville I think, I KNOW we gotta make the playoffs first to see if teams will exploit it, but that was some foreshadowing on my part. Its what teams do in the playoffs and I expect that to happen if we make it there.

Also, I'm perfectly fine with keeping Hinrich aboard, I just believe we should look into getting a big 2 guard that's all and if it took Hinrich to move, then do it as long as its a star quality player. I just want to see Gordon get more minutes next year. And no, I have no problems with having to always want somebody traded either. We had damn well better keep Eddy Curry AND Tyson Chandler if we play to contend again next year and you're kidding yourself if you believe otherwise. Nobody on this team can score inside like Curry and Chandler is getting better and better, just needs to get a j and he's straight...

...Oh yeah, Ja DOES Rule by the way.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Shanghai Kid said:


> What would you guys think about some kind of Hinrich and filler for Larry Hughes sign and trade?


I'd do it in a second.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

DaBullz said:


> I just thought it was ironic that you were posting how you like Curry.


I do like him, personally. He was nice enough to sign my son's program and his mini-basketball (my wife was holding it, so that didn't surprise me :biggrin: ).

I don't even HATE Eddy's game, I do have a very strong dis-like for it a majority of the time. When a guy like Primoz Brezec grabs over 7 rebounds a game, it really makes Eddy's sub-6 look pathetic. Not to mention a perceived "lesser center" like Primoz blocks more shots. 

I probably rip Eddy more than anyone else because he gets far less out of his talent than anyone else on the team. He could be a monster defender and rebounder if he played with intensity all the time, even half the time.

I guess defensive intensity, working hard on the boards, and generally being the best player you can be mean a lot more to me than they do to other people. I pay a lot of attention to defense and defense is very important to me.

"Eddy Curry Sucks" is just an opinion, but he does SUCK at rebounding IMO, and he does SUCK at shot-blocking IMO. Those are two of a center's biggest responsibilities, and Eddy SUCKS at them IMO.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

TomBoerwinkle#1 said:


> Maybe true, but as you alude to in your Jamal comments, there are many ways to measure the bounty of the pasture. This is a team that has gone from the pite to being winners. If Eddy stays for less than a max contract, whatever that may be under the new CBA, and really turns himself into a star, a high profile, big market team like the Bulls could position him to more than make up for the less than max salary in endorsements. A young man, a true center, part of an exciting yourng team which has pulled itself out of the gutter and is headed to -- well, that remains to be seen, but if they start contending, there is plenty of money and exposure to exploit.
> 
> There are only so many teams who are in a position to make Eddy a max type offer this offseason, and if I recall correctly, most are not major market teams. KG and Tim Duncan are very wealthy men, but I have no doubt they'd be worth a heck of a lot more in endorsements and public appearance fees if they were playing in NY, LA or a revitalized Chicago.


Oh, I agree totally- IMO there is no doubt that Eddy will make more in endorsements in Chicago than he would almost anywhere else. LA and NY are bigger markets, but the Bulls certainly look to be eons ahead to their teams success-wise. Plus with Chicago being Eddy's home town, that should lead to more endorsements by itself IMO.

I'm just not sure if a young man like Eddy is wise enough to realize that winning is what makes people superstars. Jamal certainly tied his hitch to the wrong wagon, he thought he was choosing the better organization in NY (if you go by his press clippings). I'm sure Isiah could sell Eddy the same line he told Jamal about how the Knicks are a much better organization... Eddy sure isn't very fond of Skiles, he probably wouldn't take a lot of convincing.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

bullsville said:


> Oh, I agree totally- IMO there is no doubt that Eddy will make more in endorsements in Chicago than he would almost anywhere else. LA and NY are bigger markets, but the Bulls certainly look to be eons ahead to their teams success-wise. Plus with Chicago being Eddy's home town, that should lead to more endorsements by itself IMO.
> 
> I'm just not sure if a young man like Eddy is wise enough to realize that winning is what makes people superstars. Jamal certainly tied his hitch to the wrong wagon, he thought he was choosing the better organization in NY (if you go by his press clippings). I'm sure Isiah could sell Eddy the same line he told Jamal about how the Knicks are a much better organization... Eddy sure isn't very fond of Skiles, he probably wouldn't take a lot of convincing.



Isiah would also have to do a lot of convincing to pry Curry away in a S&T. The only possible S&T i see possible with the Knicks, is one involving Starbury.


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## Rhyder (Jul 15, 2002)

Shanghai Kid said:


> What would you guys think about some kind of Hinrich and filler for Larry Hughes sign and trade?


I would do it depending on what Hughes is commanding in terms of salary (he is in his contract year), although I don't see why Washington would. They seem to be pretty happy with their backcourt.

I wouldn't do the deal if Duhon is not resigned, however. Hughes is about as good a shooter as Hinrich, however, and he is worse from 3P range. We also have to then consider Gordon's role as a PG. Hughes does have some PG skills, but I wouldn't want to rely on him solely from that position, as I would not yet with Gordon either.

This might be a type of deal to consider a couple years down the road after we have experimented with the Hinrich/Gordon backcourt, we see more improvement from Hinrich, and probably would have to catch Washington slumping.


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## bullsville (Jan 23, 2005)

sloth said:


> Isiah would also have to do a lot of convincing to pry Curry away in a S&T. The only possible S&T i see possible with the Knicks, is one involving Starbury.


Yeah, Isiah doesn't have much that Paxson wants IMO. I don't think Marbury is a Paxson guy, IMO Sweetney would be his target along with the Knicks' lottery pick this summer (if they still have it). They have the 9th worse record right now, I don't know enough about this year's prospects to know what we would possibly be looking at with the #9 pick.

It's going to be hard to do a trade with any team that is over the cap because of Eddy's BYC status. We really don't have any other salaries to add to Eddy like we did with Jamal to overcome his BYC, AD's salary could make it work but I don't see Paxson wanting to trade AD unless he was getting something special in return- and the Knicks don't have anything special to offer. 

Eddy and AD for Sweetney, Penny and their lottery pick comes real close to working, though it might need a little tweaking. Same thing with Tim Thomas instead of Penny, they are both expiring contracts.


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