# Antoines ppr stats



## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

Taken from

http://www.basketballreference.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=WALKEAN01

Negative numbers for his career is not good me thinks.  

Come on antoine you had one positive year you can do it again. :twave: :twave:


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## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

Contrast antoines numbers with jrbremers. Geez aw would make a good point guard... 


http://www.basketballreference.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=BREMEJR01

Here is tony delks numbers for those interested. 

http://www.basketballreference.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=DELKTO01


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## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

Whoa, I don't understand this at all! Can anyone help?


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## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

i will help by giving a hint. Aw is not a good point guard. Vheck the link, there are explanations on the home page waht ppr is..


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>voice of reality</b>!
> i will help by giving a hint. Aw is not a good point guard. Vheck the link, there are explanations on the home page waht ppr is..


And how is this relivent? Lets take a look at John Stockton's block totals. How about Tony Parker's rebounding? 

Antoine was still the best point guard on the team last year and he is a powerforward. 

Here's a little reality for you, if Antoine wasn't on this team and we had Abdur-Rahim or Shawn Marion, etc instead, the Celtics wouldn't have been in the playoffs either of the last two seasons, nor would we be mentioned among the legit playoff teams in the east.


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## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

agoo this is relevant because it is the truth. Your ideas that they would not make the playoffs are nothing more than conjecture. This is america and you have a right to your opinon,but dont assume that just because you believe it is true.  

Aw has great court vision, he knows where the three point line is at all times.  

Aw is 10thin the league in turnovers. 


What is the traditional method of valuing a point guard? Assists/turnovers correct? Last year aw was 1.29 , on the othe hand jr bremer was 2.89, delk was close to three also. So how can you backup with something more than opinon your statement that aw was the best point guard? :sigh: 

Aw scores 20 points but his effeciency rating is terrible. This hurts the team. Leaders like larry bird for example when their shot was not going in did other things to win.


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## plasticman23 (May 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>voice of reality</b>
> What is the traditional method of valuing a point guard?Assists/turnovers correct? Last year aw was 1.29 , on the othe hand jr bremer was 2.89, delk was close to three also. So how can you backup with something more than opinon your statement that aw was the best point guard? :sigh:


Kevin Ollie had the highest assist/turnover ration in the league last year. Is he the best player pg in the league? Jason Kidd is considered by most to be the best, but he wasn't even in the top 30. This stat really doesn't mean that much. 1.29 is very good for a power forward anyway.


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## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

Jason kidd is also higher in assists than aw for less minutes played. Aw is a power forward? Look at his shooting percentage of .38% .. The whole point of making this post was to show the foolishness of aw being a point guard/point forward. Oh btw check aws effeciency rating vs kidds.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>voice of reality</b>!
> Jason kidd is also higher in assists than aw for less minutes played. Aw is a power forward? Look at his shooting percentage of .38% .. The whole point of making this post was to show the foolishness of aw being a point guard/point forward. Oh btw check aws effeciency rating vs kidds.


Well, one thing we can all "see" by this exchange is the "fact" that you don't want Walker on the team. That is your personal feeling and you state why you believe what you do, and that is good. Others have stated why they do not go along with your opinion and that is good, too. To each his own.

As for me, like Larry Bird has said many times, "I like Walker" ( I like him in spite of his "faults").
Why do I like his game? I love his leadership(there is no stat for that - sorry) and I love his passion for the game. (No measurable stat for that either) 

I also like the way he is not selfish. Unlike some players who don't take the open shot <b>(Doug Christie comes to mind)</b> - Walker will - thus relieving the stress on teammates who don't really want to take the big shot.


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## plasticman23 (May 30, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>voice of reality</b>!
> Jason kidd is also higher in assists than aw for less minutes played. Aw is a power forward? Look at his shooting percentage of .38% .. The whole point of making this post was to show the foolishness of aw being a point guard/point forward. Oh btw check aws effeciency rating vs kidds.


Nobody said he was better than Kidd, all I'm saying is that he is a good player and is the best point gaurd on his team.


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## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>plasticman23</b>!
> 
> 
> Nobody said he was better than Kidd, all I'm saying is that he is a good player and is the best point gaurd on his team.


Yes lets just not look at what the stats say,  . He is not a point guard, he was not even as good as jrbremer.

He averages approx 4-5 assists for 42 minutes of play, tell me what other starting pg that plays those minutes on a playoff team with those lousy numbers. 

re the comment on aws leadership: I saw aw be a verbal leader in the ecf finals in that great comeback win. I saw pp and tony battie, and tony delk fired up omn the court but saw little from aw. He takes open shots because he knows he has to shoot as much as he can to get his 20 points.  


I dont not want aw on this team, i want him to grow up and put his money where his mouth is. He proclaims to be a leader but on the court he shows otherwise. What does he do to make his teamates better? Why is he so beyond reproach that he wont listen to advice from the greatest player ever michael jordan?

This is a team game and aw is not a team player, he is too selfish takes too many bad shots and makes bad desicionbs with the ball. This is not all his fault, with another coaching staff this guy could be a perennial all star, a future hall of famer and probaly be wearing one or two rings. he could be that good but unfortunately he would not listen to perhaps the greatest champion ever ....... :upset: 

If only aw had waltahs effort.... :sigh:


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>voice of reality</b>!
> 
> 
> Yes lets just not look at what the stats say,  . He is not a point guard, he was not even as good as jrbremer.
> ...


Insulting Antoine's shot selection is one thing, but bashing his leadership skills and his effort is idiocy.

What does Antoine do to make his teammates better? I don't know, did you read any of the six or seven articles that were written days after the New Jersey series where Antoine went to each of his teammates and said, "You need to work on this and here's what I'm going to work on." How about him flying the rookies and new faces into Chicago so he can meet up with them during the offseason? How about delivering a speech that led to the greatest comeback in NBA playoff history? If you followed this team at all, you'd know that Paul Pierce probably wouldn't be half the player he is right now if Antoine wasn't here as the team captain, not to mention that in the Indiana series he made Walter McCarty look like a competent offensive player.

Questioning Antoine's effort, particularly after last season, is rediculous. He sprained his knee in a game against Philly in January and the initial diagnosis was that he'd be out for 3 weeks. He missed four games and came back in a loss to Detroit. He played five or six games with the knee brace he was told to wear the rest of the season and then played 40+ minutes a game for the remaining two months of th season and the playoffs. If that's not commendable effort, then I don't know what is. And please don't say he was hurting the team. I'd take a one legged Antoine over last season's drunken, fat Vin Baker any day of the week.

You also are harping Antoine on his turnover. Looking at the top 20 in TPG (Antoine is 10), you'll see names like Jason Kidd, Steve Francis, the immortal Paul Pierce, Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson (all ahead of Toine) and guys like Stephon Marbury, Chris Webber, Tim Duncan, Shaq O'Neal, and Kevin Garnett with in half a turnover per game of Antoine. Could this be because they all have something in common? I think so. When you play 40+ minutes per game and touch the ball atleast once in every possession, you are bound to rack up a few turnovers. A more indicitive number of Antoine's turnovers in comparison with the rest of the league would be to look at TOs per 48 minutes. Antoine was tied for 19 last year with Iverson, Webbert, Marbury, and Jason Terry. He continues to be far behind guys like Gilbert Arenas, Kidd, Francis, Pierce (who's 6th by the way), Scottie Pippen and Kobe Bryant. 

If you think Antoine is the issue with the Celtics and that they'd be that much closer to 17 if they dealt him, you are disillusioned and that's really all there is to it.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> 
> 
> Insulting Antoine's shot selection is one thing, but bashing his leadership skills and his effort is idiocy.
> ...


WORD!


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## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

My heart and aw. 
I would love to start my life over, at 43 overweight and never very talented i would love to play in the nba. I love the game. I believe i would most be like waltah or hunter in that i give 100% to the task at hand. There are days that i come home from work and my legs tremble, ache etc. Yet at 43 i outwork,outperform,am safer and tons more effeicent than people who have more physical capabilitys than me. I am contemplating at this time a career change and flyfishing and basketball are at the top of my wish list. 


I guess i told you that little bit about myself to share how i feel when i see antoine with all that wonderful talent yet he seems to me not to put the effort in waltah does. I just wish that with my warrior spirit that i could have that talent also. But most of all antoine i want you to be the player i know your creator intended you to be. I certainly do criticize your game and am very sarcastiic at times about your stats but i hope that you see them as constructive. You see I KNOW you are not playing up to your abilitys. And it breaks my heart. Please antoine give it a waltah effort this year.


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## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

As i sttaed before this thread was started to disprove the fallacy that aw is helping the team by pretending to be a point guard. We had one of the best assist guys in ka and aw was constantly harping on him because he wanted to run the show. Jason kidd is probaly the best point guard in the league, he makes players better on the court. Aw does not setup guys with easy looks and pp who does not claim in any way has almost as many assists in less minutes. 

Conjecture is a foolish things and only fools build their logic and arguements on it. Saying the cs would be nowhere without aw is just conjecture. Trust me unless aw straightens his verbal hypocrisy out he is gone. His boss has publicly criticized his game wheen he was a tv analyst,now that he is his gm he suddenly likes it? If you believe that i gotta prime piece of swamp land with oil on it i swear.  

Look at aws pps btw....


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

<i>Quote: Jason kidd is probaly the best point guard in the league, he makes players better on the court. Aw does not setup guys with easy looks and pp who does not claim in any way has almost as many assists in less minutes.</i>



If you study Paul's assists from year #1 to last year - you'd see how the unselfishness of AW made a big impression on Paul. Paul was NOT and still isn't a great passer, but he - like AW - will hit the more open guy - NOW.

To my way of thinking, a truly selfish player is one like a Doug Christie, who passes up open shot after open shot - thus putting a HUGE amount of pressure on other players for the Kings. 
He supposedly does that because he is considered by many to be a team player. To me - Christie is the opposite! When one can shoot an open shot and does NOT - he makes it a HUGE burden on his teammates who are not inclined to make the BIG shot.

Oh, and AW doesn't read here, so he won't see your open "letter" to him.


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## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> <i>Quote: Jason kidd is probaly the best point guard in the league, he makes players better on the court. Aw does not setup guys with easy looks and pp who does not claim in any way has almost as many assists in less minutes.</i>
> 
> 
> ...


Hey if he dont listen to mike why would he listen to me?  

what he doesnt read posts here? everone here likes him. Should go to www.celtic-nation.com and see what they say about him.


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## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

Agoo wrote: Insulting Antoine's shot selection is one thing, but bashing his leadership skills and his effort is idiocy.


I guess being nice is not a prerequisite to being a moderator?  

Anyways it always amazes me when logic leaves a discussion insults follow.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

All right, I will tell you one thing, and one thing ONLY. 

There is a reason why Antoine Walker plays more minutes then Paul Pierce.

If your smart enough you'll figure this out in a second. If you don't want to acknowledge it, well its your loss because its it true.


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## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> All right, I will tell you one thing, and one thing ONLY.
> 
> There is a reason why Antoine Walker plays more minutes then Paul Pierce.
> ...


a question, aw plays more and is more out of shape. Sounds like a team leader doesnt it? Leadership begins with example....Otherwise it is hypocrisy...


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>voice of reality</b>!
> 
> 
> a question, aw plays more and is more out of shape. Sounds like a team leader doesnt it? <b>Leadership begins with example....Otherwise it is hypocrisy... </b>



Life is not always that simplistic, as the complexities on this planet are almost incalculable.


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## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Life is not always that simplistic, as the complexities on this planet are almost incalculable.


Man trys to make more complex that which is really simple, the pardaoxical refusal of true wisdom.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>voice of reality</b>!
> 
> 
> Man trys to make more complex that which is really simple, the pardaoxical refusal of true wisdom.



Just studying the human species alone should show why any one person, such as AW, is as "complex" as I stated before. It may appear simple to the uninformed, but to the informed, they know how complex one single human being is.


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## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

Here a little ditty someone else wrote: Thanks old fan


My name is Antoine Walker and my shot has always stunk,/
From near or far or in between the sound you hear is clunk./I’ll jack a trey, I’ll hoist a deuce, I’ll chuck it from the line,/
If I can even hit the rim, you know I’m doing fine./I’ll clank eight treys, but what the heck I’ll clank a dozen more,/
O’Brien says, “Go right ahead, but first please holler ‘FORE!’”/You fans have seen me drive the lane and smash it off the glass,/
For guys who don’t turn quick enough the rock shoots up their ***./I’m known as thirty-nine percent, a stat of which I’m proud,/
I think it’s quite enough to earn the plaudits of the crowd./If I can somehow make a hoop, I shimmy and I shake,/
And give a wink to Pervis Two, let’s show that bum a break./So when you buy the paper, please peruse my brilliant line,/
If I’ve gone 5 for 21 that shows I’m in my prime.


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## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> 
> Just studying the human species alone should show why any one person, such as AW, is as "complex" as I stated before. It may appear simple to the uninformed, but to the informed, they know how complex one single human being is.


Only by assuming a complexity do you convolute logic.  


I would much rather argue antoine as proof that life is simple.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>voice of reality</b>!
> Contrast antoines numbers with jrbremers. Geez aw would make a good point guard...
> 
> 
> ...



Delk is a regular assist machine!


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>voice of reality</b>!
> 
> 
> Only by assuming a complexity do you convolute logic.
> ...


One can easily "see" that is your desire, but zoologists will always agree with me that the human body is as complex as it gets.


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## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> One can easily "see" that is your desire, but zoologists will always agree with me that the human body is as complex as it gets.


Well i would say perhaps some humans appear to have come from a zoo.  

But in context we were talking wisdom and soul kinda stuff not the body. try again.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>voice of reality</b>!
> 
> 
> Well i would say perhaps some humans appear to have come from a zoo.
> ...


The last I read, the soul is a part of the body and wisdom is different than the soul, last I read. Try again.


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## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> The last I read, the soul is a part of the body and wisdom is different than the soul, last I read. Try again.


Please quote your scource. I believe in the triune man body soul and spirit. Would be happy to debate that also.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>voice of reality</b>!
> 
> 
> Please quote your scource. I believe in the triune man body soul and spirit. Would be happy to debate that also.


I like your spunk. We have a very nice discussion on the EBB forum about religious issues. Take a look and make your own topic there if you don't find one to your liking.


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## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>agoo101284</b>!
> 
> 
> Insulting Antoine's shot selection is one thing, but bashing his leadership skills and his effort is idiocy.
> ...


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## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

I am not rich, i am not good looking atlhough 43 and overweight i am married to a beautiful woman 16yrs and 16 days younger than i. I have just recently lost a best friend over the issue of "integrity" . But one thing i do wish is i just had a the skills antoine walker has. I dont believe in whining and crying but i persoanlly do not like being bullyed through insults especially bu someone in authority. Also an owner has gone out of his way to be rude. You think i got spunk, that and my integrity i hold very dear. I want my young child to see his dad wont be bullyed.


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## TheRifleman (May 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>voice of reality</b>!
> I am not rich, i am not good looking atlhough 43 and overweight i am married to a beautiful woman 16yrs and 16 days younger than i. I have just recently lost a best friend over the issue of "integrity" . But one thing i do wish is i just had a the skills antoine walker has. I dont believe in whining and crying but i persoanlly do not like being bullyed through insults especially bu someone in authority. Also an owner has gone out of his way to be rude. You think i got spunk, that and my integrity i hold very dear. I want my young child to see his dad wont be bullyed.


I have not "bullied" you in any way - if anything, I have encouraged your spunkiness as a poster.

I fail to see any place where I bullied you. In fact YOU sarcastically(you said later) gave issue to my Intlligence or lack therof and I did NOT respond back to you in kind manner, did I? In fact, I made a humorous reply to that bulliness of me by you!


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## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>TheRifleman</b>!
> 
> 
> I have not "bullied" you in any way - if anything, I have encouraged your spunkiness as a poster.
> ...


i was lumping your rude joke and the totally blatant insult given which you seem to condone into being bullyed. I will respond with sarcasm to those who are abrasive towards me. I think you are intelligent and logic in your thought. I guess i dont understand not receiving an apology for what was said. Btw if there was a easier to find link to the brass i would have contacted them regarding this. as i said to the mod i expected an apology and gave him room to do so.


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

Attention Boston Celtics posters the title of this thread is "Antoines ppr stats." Should you have comments on Antoine's PPR stats, please post them here. Should you have comments on other things, please post them where they belong or PM a moderator. Future posts that don't approach the topic of the thread will be deleted.


---agoo


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## voice of reality (Sep 20, 2003)

I think i failed to mention before that antoine is 153 out of 154 plyers in pps.


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