# Game Thread: 12.8.04 Wizards vs. Nuggets



## MJG

<center><table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td>







</td><td width=20><center>vs</center></td><td>







</td></tr><tr><td colspan=3></td></tr><tr><td colspan=3></td></tr><tr><td><center>10 - 5</center></td><td width=20></td><td><center>9 - 7</center></td></tr></table>

7:00 PM on CSN

Season series tied 0 - 0


<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td>







</td><td><center>- Key Match: PF -<br><font color=#DFDFDF>|</font><br><font color=#DFDFDF>|</font></center><table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td width=34><p align="right">21.9</p></td><td width=50><center>*PPG*</center></td><td width=34>13.4</td></tr><tr><td colspan=3><font color=#DFDFDF>|</font></td></tr><tr><td width=34><p align="right">9.2</p></td><td width=50><center>*RPG*</center></td><td width=34>7.8</td></tr><tr><td colspan=3><font color=#DFDFDF>|</font></td></tr><tr><td width=34><p align="right">2.4</p></td><td width=50><center>*APG*</center></td><td width=34>3.8</td></tr><tr><td colspan=3><font color=#DFDFDF>|</font></td></tr><tr><td width=34><p align="right">1.0</p></td><td width=50><center>*SPG*</center></td><td width=34>1.6</td></tr><tr><td colspan=3><font color=#DFDFDF>|</font></td></tr><tr><td width=34><p align="right">0.3</p></td><td width=50><center>*BPG*</center></td><td width=34>1.0</td></tr><tr><td colspan=3><font color=#DFDFDF>|</font></td></tr><tr><td width=34><p align="right">40.5</p></td><td width=50><center>*MPG*</center></td><td width=34>33.0</td></tr><tr><td colspan=3><font color=#DFDFDF>|</font></td></tr></table></td><td>







</td></tr></table></center>


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## MJG

Anyone got a match they're more interested in? I just picked one of the many. There's some pretty good ones:

Arenas vs. Miller

Anthony vs. JJ

Haywood vs. Camby

Okay, maybe the SF battle isn't a "good" one, but if JJ can let his length bother Anthony it would do good things for us.


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## twinz2gether

I say we keep this one close, it goes to OT but we end up losing.


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## eYeKey

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> Anyone got a match they're more interested in? I just picked one of the many. There's some pretty good ones:
> 
> Arenas vs. Miller
> 
> Anthony vs. JJ
> 
> Haywood vs. Camby
> 
> Okay, maybe the SF battle isn't a "good" one, but if JJ can let his length bother Anthony it would do good things for us.


IMO the SF battle is extremely vitale to our chances in this game. If JJ can stay out of foul trouble and D-UP Mello, we should be able to handle the Nuggets rather painlessly as long as our starting gaurds handle business and Haywood and company hold down the interior game.


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## Shanghai Kid

This will be a big challenge for the Wiz. The Nuggets have beaten some very good teams in their last 10 and just whooped Miami the other day.

I think this game will go along way in proving what level we're at right now. If we come out like we did against the Bulls we will get blown out.


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## jazzy1

I think we blow out the Nuggets by about 15-20 points. They can't score with us they don't have the shooters. They only have about 3 guys who can get numbers and thats when they're firing on all cylinders. Melo will get 20 or so with JJ doing a good job defensively. 

Arenas wins the battle with Miller and Jamison who always plays good against KMart does the same. Haywood and Camby play to an almost standstill and Kwame plays better with about 10 points and the Wizards win going away. 

Boykins could be a problem. But Juan and Hayes can neuatralize him stats wise. 

I would be surprised if the Nuggets came across the country and beat us at home.

We're a quality club now.


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## afireinside

can't see us winning us this one. I'd like to, but Denver has got the overall experience on their team and can run the court well.


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## NorthEast Wiz

Boykins and KMart will be big problems. I think we need to get nasty (probably Ruffin) to win this one. We lose.


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## MJG

I'll make a nonsensical prediction and say that whatever Denver does in tonight's game against Orlando, they'll do the opposite against us. They lose to the Magic, they beat us. They beat the Magic, they lose to us. Let's hope for the latter.


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## jazzy1

I see we have alot of non believers in the house. Still can't believe we're good I see. 

I think we're good and at home we should beat just about anyone. 

The media won't give us credit until the fanbase believes.


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## hobojoe

This is a very winnable game for Washington. They have plenty of rest heading into this one, and they're at home. They match up pretty well against Denver, especially with Kwame and his big body being back and able to help control Denver's killer frontcourt. The Wizards should win this one being at home, 101-96 Washington.


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## NorthEast Wiz

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> I'll make a nonsensical prediction and say that whatever Denver does in tonight's game against Orlando, they'll do the opposite against us. They lose to the Magic, they beat us. They beat the Magic, they lose to us. Let's hope for the latter.


I hope your prediction comes true. 

To answer Jazzy, I am an internal optimist and a believer in this team but I just don't like some of our match-ups with Denver. We really have no one to match KMart's intensity but I would be more than happy to be wrong.


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## Gripni

I'm expecting a strange game tomorrow night. If there could be a tie, I'd call one for this game. I don't know why either.


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## NorthEast Wiz

I think this can be a landmark game for the early part of the season. If we win here I think we go 13-5 heading towards Miami which has already beat us twice, who we get back to back with again. 

Strange schedule.

Don't know the last time I have looked forward to a game like this.


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## f22egl

I think the Wizards win since Antawn will have a monster game.


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## MJG

The fact that we haven't played a game in approximately six weeks makes this one all the more exciting to look forward to.


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## byrondarnell66

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> The fact that we haven't played a game in approximately six weeks makes this one all the more exciting to look forward to.


yeah it seams like forever doesn't it


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## Tom

Jamison absolutely owns Kenyon so he should have a big game...when the Nuggets start slow, game over. The first 8 minutes should tell the story.


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## MJG

Maybe we'll have Etan back by the break, hopefully by the playoffs? Ugh. He's not helping us, on the court or in trade value. Not in the least.


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## B Dizzle

hello everyone, I'm in for the game, altough it's 1:15 a.m. here in austria!


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## MJG

Is it just me, or does it seem like we're near the top of the league in every category? The announcers can't mention a stat without us being top ten.

Jamison hits four in a row, including a couple of tough looking ones, but they're up 17-14 halfway in the first.


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## B Dizzle

Did you guys see the denver-miami game? Kmart had about 5 thunderous dunks!


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## B Dizzle

Is everyone here watching the game on TV?


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## B Dizzle

wow, Jamison has already 11 points with 3 min. to go in the 1st quarter!


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## MJG

> Originally posted by <b>B Dizzle</b>!
> Is everyone here watching the game on TV?


If you mean in the forum, then yes. If you mean over where you're at, I have no idea 

25-18 Denver, they're on a quick 6-0 run. Jamison is carrying the offense -- he's 4-6, everyone else is 2-10. Denver's shooting an extremely high 11-17 at the moment, so hopefully we step things up a tad on defense. Too many layups for them.


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## B Dizzle

I meant the forum. They will never show any Wizards game here in Austria!


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## B Dizzle

Jamison seems unstopable right now!


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## MJG

Jamison has decided that he's had enough scoring in the teens. 17 points on 7-9 shooting and 3-4 free throws as he lead the charge to cut the lead down to 29-28 to wrap up the first.

Everyone else was 4-14, although Arenas didn't look bad at all despite the shooting. Miller and Camby were straight on fire for them, combining to go 9-12 from the field. We aren't exactly making things impossible for the two on defense, but they also made a few shots they'd normally miss. Hopefully they'll cool down.



> Originally posted by <b>B Dizzle</b>!
> I meant the forum. They will never show any Wizards game here in Austria!


It's usually a bit slow early in the game in here. If things are close and we get later in the game, some more people will trickle in.


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## hobojoe

17 first quarter points for Jamison, Martin and Melo combine for only 5 first quarter points on 2-7 shooting, and the Nuggets are _still_ somehow ahead by one? I don't see the Wizards winning this one considering the first quarter Jamison had and how little production Denver got from its two best players.


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## adarsh1

he is on pace to score 68 points...oh i love those threads in the main forum


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## MJG

Heh got to hate Boykins, comes in and nails two threes to start the quarter, including one off the glass. He kills us. Looks like we've brought in Dixon to match against him.

Kwame with the good postup move. Let's hope we see more of that.


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## B Dizzle

oh man, Earl Boykins .....


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## MJG

This game is just a bunch of 6-0 and 8-2 runs.

Peeler with two quality threes, glad to see him hitting some.

Kwame with the super tap in, he's looking sharp on offense in his first few minutes.


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## B Dizzle

peeler with 3 pt shooting of the bench!


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## MJG

It's been awhile since I've seen so many wide open layups. Our defense is non-existant at best. We're lucky for our generally good offense, or we'd be down far more than just ten at the half.

Just a general note -- Hayes' shooting percentage has not gotten any better as the season's moved on. It seems like he's shooting a bit better when watching the games, but he's still shooting around 35% on the year, and even worse than that during the winning streak. Maybe it'll happen naturally when Kwame starts really playing again, but I think we need to start thinking about lowering his minutes. His defense still isn't anything to speak of and I don't see what makes him any better on offense than Dixon or JJ or Peeler or whoever would get more minutes if he played less.


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## MJG

Man, do we get ticky tack fouls all the time. Guys need to figure out what the refs are calling, and cut it out.

Another general note -- I hope that Kwame is actually not able to play more than he has, because I'm disappointed with the time he's getting. I figured we'd play him around 20 minutes a night for a week or two, upper 20's for another week or so, then finally get him back into the regular rotation he should be getting. Instead, through about 3.5 games, he's played a total of 45 minutes. I really don't see how he's stupposed to be working himself back into things when he barely plays.

As generally bad as we've been this game, it's still just a ten point lead for Denver late in the third. I'm not all that high on the comeback bandwagon for tonight's game, but at least we haven't let ourselves get out of things.


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## MJG

Only down 6 going into the third, and we've won what, six games being down entering the final period? I'll keep hope alive.

EJ needs to do some coaching and cut out the full court pressure stuff. It hasn't worked the entire game, and it's gotten Denver seemingly dozends of relatively easy buckets after beating it. Just come back and play tough half court defense.

Denver with three fouls in the first 30 seconds of the 4th, so we could be well on our way to a lot of free throws if we stay aggressive. Lead down to four on a Jamison jumper.

... and there's the fourth foul at 10:24. We're shooting the rest of the way, we'd best take advantage of that.


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## CP26

Looks like we are gonna lose it because we can't stop Andre Miller.


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## hobojoe

32 points, 7 rebounds and 7 assists for Andre Miller!


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## NorthEast Wiz

Been at work but disappointed at the score. Thanks for the commentary guys. Damn! Thought we had a chance there for a moment at 100-96 but it is now 104-96.


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## B Dizzle

who's guarding him? arenas? if so, he's a VERY bad defender!


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## adarsh1

dammit turnover on hughes..**** game over


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## NorthEast Wiz

Looks like Arenas made a three huh but we lost the ball. I'm looking at cbssportline.com so I'm for sure behing live tv. Give me some updates guys.


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## MJG

> Originally posted by <b>B Dizzle</b>!
> who's guarding him? arenas? if so, he's a VERY bad defender!


Hughes has been on him pretty much every time I've paid that close of attention. Hasn't mattered though, he was nailing everything.

It's amazing when you look at the quarter by quarter breakdown and just the general score at the moment how close things have been as a whole. Frankly, watching the game, it has felt like we've been badly outplayed for about 80% of the game.

What has happened to Hughes' free throw shooting? He was fantastic there last year, he's way down this season. 1 of 2 to cut it to 4 with 53 second left.

Martin fouled by Haywood (actually Jamison, wrong call) on the inside with 36 seconds left. He makes both free throws.


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## B Dizzle

we gotta hit thoes FT'S


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## MJG

... and it's done on Arenas' missed three and Denver's quick two.


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## MJG

109-105, Denver heading to the line with 9.9 left. Haywood fouled out.


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## B Dizzle

game's over 111 - 105


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## adarsh1

game over sigh

oh well

i don't know why peeler wasn't in the game when we were trailing.


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## jazzy1

Glad I gave my tickets away. 

Well the Wizards are pretenders in my mind. 

Eddie Jordan coached one of the dumbest games you can coach. He played small ball all night long. Where was Brendan early where was Kwame late. Why in the hell does Ruffin an offensive clog play so much thats crap he gives us nothing offensively and hardly anything on defense with regard to protecting the paint. 

I don't believe in a BIG 3 we will win this season when Kwame, Brendan and Etan play well. 

We gave up so many points in the paint it was a joke and it was in correlation to playing a small line-up. 

Kwame was playing well why not play him more. He scored in the low block and got an assist to Peeler cutting. We're relying on a guy we got on the scrap heap more than our draft choices. 

Arenas and Hughes have got to pass the ball inside more. 

We gotta get buckets off post ups or we're gonna lose more shoot-outs than we win. 

WE can't believe in small ball theres no way we can beat quality teams playing this way.

We are PRETENDERS until further notice as far as I'm concerned. We are beating bad teams with the perimeter play. I think we're a good team but we're not for real until we beat someone of quality. 

Jamison is not a big man he's a perimeter player. 

Our defense is pathetic the 26th ranked scoring team got 111 points. 

Our bad shots got them good looks and transition buckets. 

I hate Ruffins game.


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## Gripni

At least it was close, and against a good team. Denver's won it's last nine of eleven games.


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## Shanghai Kid

Yeah defensively we were bad, BUT I blame this one on Eddie Jordan.


PLAY KWAME. It's as simple as this. We're getting killed on the boards and Hughes is taking horrible shots, why not put in Kwame whose already shown earlier in the game he can muscle these guys around and score in the post?

I agree with Jazzy, we need Kwame because our weaknesses are starting to show. We can beat alot of East teams with our perimeter play but the legit teams have the post game and we're lacking that big time. 

The future is still bright though. We're going to be good when Kwame starts getting more minutes.


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## MJG

I'm glad I'm not the only one not very happy with EJ right now. The game just flat out wasn't very well coached, and the Kwame situation is puzzling. He played almost as well as he could in his 5-6 minutes, then never got in the game again despite us getting killed on the inside.


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## Shanghai Kid

Yeah defensively we were bad, BUT I blame this one on Eddie Jordan.


PLAY KWAME. It's as simple as this. We're getting killed on the boards and Hughes is taking horrible shots, why not put in Kwame whose already shown earlier in the game he can muscle these guys around and score in the post?

I agree with Jazzy, we need Kwame because our weaknesses are starting to show. We can beat alot of East teams with our perimeter play but the legit teams have the post game and we're lacking that big time. 

The future is still bright though. We're going to be good when Kwame starts getting more minutes.


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## MJG

Anyone want to offer an opinion on player of the game? Despite the fact that Jamison had the most obvious good game, I was going to go with Arenas. He was solid throughout instead of just early, and Jamison didn't exactly do much to help our inside pathetic-ness.


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## byrondarnell66

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> Anyone want to offer an opinion on player of the game? Despite the fact that Jamison had the most obvious good game, I was going to go with Arenas. He was solid throughout instead of just early, and Jamison didn't exactly do much to help our inside pathetic-ness.


Its close between Arenas and Jamison, but i feel their guards "Miller and Boykins out played our guards" so i say Jamison,


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## adarsh1

geezus peeler was on a roll there in the second and jordan never goes back to him....wtf...


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## jazzy1

I just don't blame the players for this one. Jamison, Arenas and Hughes took 60 of the 90 shots in the game. That can't happen. 

EJ just believes in the perimeter philosphy. I just don't accept that. 

Hughes was bad tonight but the coach put him in postion to be bad because we had no other options and none on the block. 

If I read another article saying Jamison is a post option I'm gonna gag. He's a perimeter player. 

Unless Kwame is experiencing some pain I don't get it. He made a nice jump hook got a couple of boards and got a tip in plus dropped a dime. 

And EJ decides to give Ruffin minutes WHY. Ruffin is terrible. He plays tough and he taps balls but he can't score at all. He's frustrating to watch.


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## MJG

> Originally posted by <b>byrondarnell66</b>!
> 
> 
> Its close between Arenas and Jamison, but i feel their guards "Miller and Boykins out played our guards" so i say Jamison,


True; I suppose our guards didn't defend the exterior any better than our bigs defended the interior.


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## hobojoe

I hate to say it, but I think RP McMurphy was completely right this offseason when he said Kwame and Jamison wouldn't work well together. I think Kwame's not seeing playing time because Jordan knows that trying to play the two of them together may wind up being a disaster. Now the only thing left in RP's prediction is that eventually this'll be the reason Kwame gets traded at the deadline this year. I must say, that's a strong possiblity at this point. Jordan obviously has seen in practice that those two don't play well together.


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## jazzy1

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> I hate to say it, but I think RP McMurphy was completely right this offseason when he said Kwame and Jamison wouldn't work well together. I think Kwame's not seeing playing time because Jordan knows that trying to play the two of them together may wind up being a disaster. Now the only thing left in RP's prediction is that eventually this'll be the reason Kwame gets traded at the deadline this year. I must say, that's a strong possiblity at this point. Jordan obviously has seen in practice that those two don't play well together.


How can you possibly draw that conclusion when kwame just got back out on the floor and has played about 1 minute together with Jamison. 

Any coach that would make that determination based solely on practice time would be a complete fool. Game is where it matter most not practice time. 

And we don't even know that that conclusion is even in play here. 

You only seem to guess at things then change when they don't come out. Nopw you're using RP's analysis to back up what you're saying he didn't think the Wiz would be much good either. 

And you both are wrong. 

Kwame's playing very little my guess is because he's not in shape yet and not ready not because he and Jamison don't play well together. He's using kwame as a back-up at this point so he's not even getting burn with Jamison. 

Why would Ernie make this trade with the express mention of playing a Kwame, Jamison , Haywood frontline and then scrap not having tried it one minute in a game. Does that make sense. 

kwame's gonna be here .


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## MJG

Maybe I should look up the old post, but I don't understand why Kwame and Jamison couldn't play together. It's not like they play similar games in the least. Kwame is strictly inside seventeen feet, posting near the paint and beating his man with the first step otherwise. Jamison is a perimeter guy who shoots jumpers, makes cuts, and crashes the offensive glass. Both are very unselfish, and good passers for big guys. There's several pairs on the team who I could see people wondering how well they'd play together, but Jamison and Kwame is one that would never come to mind for me personally.


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## Shanghai Kid

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> I hate to say it, but I think RP McMurphy was completely right this offseason when he said Kwame and Jamison wouldn't work well together. I think Kwame's not seeing playing time because Jordan knows that trying to play the two of them together may wind up being a disaster. Now the only thing left in RP's prediction is that eventually this'll be the reason Kwame gets traded at the deadline this year. I must say, that's a strong possiblity at this point. Jordan obviously has seen in practice that those two don't play well together.


Yeah your really jumping the gun here. Kwame and Jamison haven't even experimented playing together yet. Theirs been no indication at all that they don't play well together. Infact, it's a random thought out of a blue field that has no validity to it. Kwame's been coming off the bench because he still isn't in great shape, but he's looked great in limited minutes and push comes to shove they would bench Jeffries or Haywood in order to put Kwame in where he fits. Jamison is a perimeter player, Kwame is an inside player.


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## f22egl

I don't think the Wizads should play Kwame that much more if he's not 100%. It's probably better to ease him in back into the rotation in order to prevent the risk of further injury.


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## MJG

I think if Kwame can't handle more than single digit minutes, he should still be on the injured list. I was all for easing him back into things, but my definition of "easing" is clearly different from the team's. I was thinking he starts off at 15-20 minutes a night for a few games, and over the course of two weeks or so, you gradually increase those minutes each game until he's playing the 34-36 a night he should be playing. We're over a week since his return, and his minutes have gone way down.

Two possibilities -- he was taken off the IL too soon or EJ is screwing this one up. I'm assuming the latter until a report comes up confirming the former.


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## hobojoe

You're all basically saying the same thing -- Kwame and Jamison haven't been on the court together for very long at all. Well of course not! Eddie Jordan already knows that it's a disaster waiting to happen, and he's not stupid enough to try it while the Wizards are playing well. Perhaps down the road when the Wizards start losing games, and see their record dropping they'll put the two out there and they'll fail miserably. After that, Kwame's going to be the shipped out of town.

Call it "jumping the gun" if you will, but that's what I think is going to happen at this point. I prefer not to just point out the obvious, I'd rather read between the lines and share my opinion on what I think may be happening now that we don't know about, or what may happen in the future.


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## MJG

Reading through this and the other thread, I still haven't heard <i>why</i> the two playing together is such a terrible idea. As I said, they play drastically different games, and they're both pretty much the most unselfish members of our team on the court. Out of all of our big guys, I'd rank Jamison dead last in people who I imagine would conflict with Kwame on the court (not that I have any worries about the rest).


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>MJG</b>!
> Reading through this and the other thread, I still haven't heard <i>why</i> the two playing together is such a terrible idea. As I said, they play drastically different games, and they're both pretty much the most unselfish members of our team on the court. Out of all of our big guys, I'd rank Jamison dead last in people who I imagine would conflict with Kwame on the court (not that I have any worries about the rest).


It's not a matter of character conflicts, it's a matter of the post not being enough room for both of them. Call Jamison a perimeter player all you want; he isn't one. If you want to play Jamison out on the perimeter all game long, be my guest. He's not even a starter quality player at that point. He needs the post to be effective, the post is what makes him effective. You can't have two "big-time" scorers (if you're considering Kwame one) down low together. It's not just Jamison either anymore, he just adds another scorer to a team that doesn't need one. The only way Kwame could help the team was if he accepted a role that would let him rebound the ball and play defense, and maybe 6 or 7 shots a game. He can't expect to be posting up down low and have plays ran for him in the post with Jamison out there. 

By playing Kwame and Jamison at the same time, the Wizards are doing a favor for their opponents. Their opponents could just send two big men down their to guard them, and because of Jamison and Brown both being post oriented players, their will be overcrowding down low allowing the defenses to essentially have both players double-teamed at all times without having any extra men down their. Also throw in that you could have a lineup with Jamison-Kwame-Haywood out there, you're honestly asking for a disaster. Maybe if Jamison and Brown were good passers out of the post it could be alright and probably wouldn'nt hurt the guard play, but you would see Jamison's effective drop dramatically and Brown's never rise to a decent level. 

This particular case goes even further than just saying "no two good post scorers can work well together" because of Jamison, mostly. Because of his onorthodox style of play, particularly in the post, you can't expect him to be able to operate with the crowd around him that you'd see with Kwame out there. Jamison's game thrives on little flips, and awkward shots from the post that aren't possible without having room to operate down low. Are you seeing my point now? The more attention brought by someone like a Kwame Brown, the less effective you're going to see Jamison be. What'll end up happening is you'll see Jamison either trying to force things, taking bad shots and turning the ball over, or you'll see Arenas and Hughes taking close to 50 shots a game combined because the Wizards won't be able to get anything going down low.


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## Shanghai Kid

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> It's not a matter of character conflicts, it's a matter of the post not being enough room for both of them. Call Jamison a perimeter player all you want; he isn't one. If you want to play Jamison out on the perimeter all game long, be my guest. He's not even a starter quality player at that point. He needs the post to be effective, the post is what makes him effective. You can't have two "big-time" scorers (if you're considering Kwame one) down low together. It's not just Jamison either anymore, he just adds another scorer to a team that doesn't need one. The only way Kwame could help the team was if he accepted a role that would let him rebound the ball and play defense, and maybe 6 or 7 shots a game. He can't expect to be posting up down low and have plays ran for him in the post with Jamison out there.
> 
> By playing Kwame and Jamison at the same time, the Wizards are doing a favor for their opponents. Their opponents could just send two big men down their to guard them, and because of Jamison and Brown both being post oriented players, their will be overcrowding down low allowing the defenses to essentially have both players double-teamed at all times without having any extra men down their. Also throw in that you could have a lineup with Jamison-Kwame-Haywood out there, you're honestly asking for a disaster. Maybe if Jamison and Brown were good passers out of the post it could be alright and probably wouldn'nt hurt the guard play, but you would see Jamison's effective drop dramatically and Brown's never rise to a decent level.
> 
> This particular case goes even further than just saying "no two good post scorers can work well together" because of Jamison, mostly. Because of his onorthodox style of play, particularly in the post, you can't expect him to be able to operate with the crowd around him that you'd see with Kwame out there. Jamison's game thrives on little flips, and awkward shots from the post that aren't possible without having room to operate down low. Are you seeing my point now? The more attention brought by someone like a Kwame Brown, the less effective you're going to see Jamison be. What'll end up happening is you'll see Jamison either trying to force things, taking bad shots and turning the ball over, or you'll see Arenas and Hughes taking close to 50 shots a game combined because the Wizards won't be able to get anything going down low.


Nobody is expecting Kwame to just come in and be a big time scorer. Kwame is not a 'scorer'. He's a post defender, who can rebound, pass, and score in the low post. He brings alot to the Wizards biggest weaknesses, defense and rebounding. He'll be in the starting line-up for those two reasons. The Pistons have no problem posting up both Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace. Kwame is the #1 post option as said by the coach. Jamison is not a post player, he's a tweener, he operates on the perimeter as much if not more than he does on the inside. Believe it or not, he has a great midrange game and he makes a living off of midrange shots. Jamison can hit midrange shots while Kwame posts up and vice versa. It's really not the problem you make it out to be. Brown is a good passer out of the post, and again, Jamison doesn't really post up much, he barely even has plays ran for him.


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>Shanghai Kid</b>!
> 
> 
> Nobody is expecting Kwame to just come in and be a big time scorer. Kwame is not a 'scorer'. He's a post defender, who can rebound, pass, and score in the low post. He brings alot to the Wizards biggest weaknesses, defense and rebounding. He'll be in the starting line-up for those two reasons. The Pistons have no problem posting up both Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace. Kwame is the #1 post option as said by the coach. Jamison is not a post player, he's a tweener, he operates on the perimeter as much if not more than he does on the inside. Believe it or not, he has a great midrange game and he makes a living off of midrange shots. Jamison can hit midrange shots while Kwame posts up and vice versa. It's really not the problem you make it out to be. Brown is a good passer out of the post, and again, Jamison doesn't really post up much, he barely even has plays ran for him.


If you're going to use the Pistons to argue here, then fine. If you want Kwame Brown to play a Ben Wallce type game for the Wizards, fine. Try telling him to do that. Kwame's going to look to score no matter what. If he just went in there and played defense and rebounded the ball it'd be no problem. But the fact is, Kwame receives a hell of a lot more attention down low than say, Michael Ruffin whether he's looking to score or not. Either way, it'll only hurt Jamison.


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## Shanghai Kid

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> If you're going to use the Pistons to argue here, then fine. If you want Kwame Brown to play a Ben Wallce type game for the Wizards, fine. Try telling him to do that. Kwame's going to look to score no matter what. If he just went in there and played defense and rebounded the ball it'd be no problem. But the fact is, Kwame receives a hell of a lot more attention down low than say, Michael Ruffin whether he's looking to score or not. Either way, it'll only hurt Jamison.


That's one possibility, another would be that the double teams Kwame draw in the post will just open up more oppertunities for everyone else. Jamison and Kwame are both selfless players, Kwame loves to pass and will never be confused as a black hole. My point is, the Wiz are a jump shooting team right now. So your taking a perimeter team and adding a low post threat. I don't see how that would hurt the Wiz.


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>Shanghai Kid</b>!
> 
> 
> That's one possibility, another would be that the double teams Kwame draw in the post will just open up more oppertunities for everyone else. Jamison and Kwame are both selfless players, Kwame loves to pass and will never be confused as a black hole. My point is, the Wiz are a jump shooting team right now. So your taking a perimeter team and adding a low post threat. I don't see how that would hurt the Wiz.


There's nothing I can do about you not being able to see how it could hurt, I'm just telling you that it very easily could. I explained in detail how it easily could, but if you don't see it or refuse to see it there's nothing I can do. For what it's worth, I think Jordan's doing the correct thing in keeping Kwame on the bench. It was management's mistake in trading for Antawn when they already had Kwame, unless of course they were planning on trading him or letting him walk already. Either way, I don't see Brown having much of a future with the Wizards, which at this point is best for both sides.


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## Shanghai Kid

> Originally posted by <b>hobojoe</b>!
> 
> 
> There's nothing I can do about you not being able to see how it could hurt, I'm just telling you that it very easily could. I explained in detail how it easily could, but if you don't see it or refuse to see it there's nothing I can do. For what it's worth, I think Jordan's doing the correct thing in keeping Kwame on the bench. It was management's mistake in trading for Antawn when they already had Kwame, unless of course they were planning on trading him or letting him walk already. Either way, I don't see Brown having much of a future with the Wizards, which at this point is best for both sides.


No I perfectly understood what you were saying, but again my own personal opinion is that Jamison is not an inside player, that he's more of a perimeter player. He can play SF, he can hit midrange and even outside shots. That's a difference of opinion we have and it allows you to have a total different perception of how it would hurt the team vs my perception of how it would help the team. Most of Antawns shots are jumpshots and most of Kwame's shots are inside shots. By both of them being able to hit the midrange shot, I don't see much of a problem at all as far as the paint being overcrowded. You see it another way, which is fine, I see Kwame and Jamison as two totally different players, one is a big man and the other is a perimeter player, I don't think anyone really considers them to be competing for a spot on the team. 

I'm sure management and the coach alike know the current line-up isn't that good because it lacks defense and a low post threat, two things that Kwame brings. And with the Wiz having nothing else at SF, I don't see anyone hesitating to put Jamison there where he already proved he can play at Golden State.


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## RP McMurphy

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> You only seem to guess at things then change when they don't come out. Nopw you're using RP's analysis to back up what you're saying he didn't think the Wiz would be much good either.
> 
> And you both are wrong.


Yeah, even if I end up being right about Kwame, I can't take much credit for it if everything else I said about the Wizards was wrong.

Larry Hughes sure has been incredible this year!


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## hobojoe

> Originally posted by <b>jazzy1</b>!
> 
> You only seem to guess at things then change when they don't come out. Nopw you're using RP's analysis to back up what you're saying he didn't think the Wiz would be much good either.
> 
> And you both are wrong.


Keep telling yourself that. It's an 82 game season, not 16.


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