# Oden's numbers from the pre-draft camp: a physical FREAK



## SodaPopinski (Aug 10, 2004)

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2007/06/greg_oden_is_a_freak_of_nature.html

As for just a taste:



> The thing that jumps out is Oden's speed and agility.
> 
> We all know Oregon's Aaron Brooks is fast. Brooks finished the 3/4 court sprint in 3.2 seconds. Oden was 3.27 seconds. Durant, meanwhile, finished in 3.45.


-Pop


----------



## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

*Pre-Draft measurements*

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2007/06/greg_oden_is_a_freak_of_nature.html

Oden's numbers are crazy! :worthy:


----------



## sa1177 (Feb 18, 2005)

WOW...Brooks is fast..that's a impressive time by Oden. :yay: :worthy:


----------



## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

So. Um.

Anyone else kinda excited about Oden as a Blazer?



Ed O.


----------



## The Professional Fan (Nov 5, 2003)

Ed O said:


> So. Um.
> 
> Anyone else kinda excited about Oden as a Blazer?
> 
> ...


Not really. He's just another Sam Bowie.


----------



## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Pre-Draft measurements*

oops! didn't see the other thread. sorry.

Mods, care to delete this thread?


----------



## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

*Re: Pre-Draft measurements*

As long as Oden doesn't ask Pritchard questions about where he can buy good fighting dogs, or which local strip club is the best, it looks like Oden is the man.

I'm especially shocked by the vertical leap difference between Oden and Durant. 

My only caveat to this is that Durant can probably do this for a full game--Oden would likely tire out quickly.


----------



## Fork (Jan 2, 2003)

I'd love to see how Oden's numbers compare to Shaq/David Robinson/etc

Those numbers were probably never made public though.

ps - I'm shocked at Aaron Gray's relatively low body fat % too.


----------



## Iwatas (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Pre-Draft measurements*

I'd very much like to see the comparisons to Aldridge's numbers from last year. Aldridge is also quite quick and agile. Can anyone find them?

iWatas


----------



## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re: Pre-Draft measurements*

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1352


----------



## Iwatas (Aug 3, 2003)

I'd like to see them compared to last year's #2, Mr. Aldridge. It seems they may be in the same ballpark. Does anyone have them and care to post?

iWatas


----------



## ROYisR.O.Y. (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: Pre-Draft measurements*

are you kidding me. this kid greg oden sounds pretty impressive. im surprised i havent heard more about him.:smile: 
is there even any doubt


----------



## crowTrobot (Jun 24, 2005)

standing vertical oden 32, durant 26. considering oden weighs 42 pounds more than durant that's pretty amazing leg strength.


----------



## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

Ed O said:


> So. Um.
> 
> Anyone else kinda excited about Oden as a Blazer?
> 
> ...


No, not at all! :yay:


----------



## gatorpops (Dec 17, 2004)

Ed O said:


> So. Um.
> 
> Anyone else kinda excited about Oden as a Blazer?
> 
> ...


Wish we would just get the damm draft over with, as this is getting tedious to have to keep chearing these stats and all. Well now that I think about it we will have to keep right on cheering for him for maybe 15 years. Damm!!!:biggrin: :yay: :clap2: :worthy: 

gatorpops


----------



## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

So Oden is faster than Durant?? Are you kidding me!! That's unbelievable.


----------



## gatorpops (Dec 17, 2004)

But can he dribble that fast?

gatorpops


----------



## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re: Pre-Draft measurements*

*Aldridge* vs. Oden

Height w/o shoes: *6-10* vs. 6-11

Height w/ shoes: *6-11.25* vs. 7-0

Weight: *234 lbs* vs. 257 lbs

Wingspan: *7-4.75* vs. 7-4.25

Standing Reach: *9-2* vs. 9-4

3/4 court sprint: *3.43 seconds* vs. 3.27 seconds

No Step Vertical Jump: *26.5''* vs. 32''

Running Vertical Jump: *34"* vs. 34''

Lane Agility Drill: *12.02 seconds* vs. 11.67 seconds


----------



## Trader Ed (Jun 17, 2002)

as if there were any doubt :jawdrop:

amazing!


----------



## Ed O (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: Pre-Draft measurements*



Samuel said:


> *Aldridge* vs. Oden
> 
> Height w/o shoes: *6-10* vs. 6-11
> 
> ...


Thanks, Sam. The no step vertical difference is amazing... and considering the 23 extra pounds Oden is carrying when he put up those numbers. Amazing.

Ed O.


----------



## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

Brooks is faster, lets just take him.






Man, I am so friggen excited about Oden, it just keeps getting better.


----------



## SodaPopinski (Aug 10, 2004)

Talkhard said:


> So Oden is faster than Durant?? Are you kidding me!! That's unbelievable.


I actually think it's more impressive that Oden is *quicker* than Durant. Quickness is a much bigger asset in basketball than speed (yes, there is a difference). Speed really only comes into play on a breakaway opportunity, which happens so infrequently in a game. You use your quickness (stop-start, lateral movement) much more in a halfcourt set and in the game in general.

-Pop


----------



## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

Ed O said:


> So. Um.
> 
> Anyone else kinda excited about Oden as a Blazer?
> 
> ...


Who is this "Oden" of which you speak?



PBF


----------



## NateBishop3 (Jul 22, 2003)

gatorpops said:


> But can he dribble that fast?
> 
> gatorpops


Considering he's been doing ball handling drills that were designed for a guard, and can dribble well with both hands, I would assume yes.


----------



## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re: Pre-Draft measurements*



Ed O said:


> Thanks, Sam. The no step vertical difference is amazing... and considering the 23 extra pounds Oden is carrying when he put up those numbers. Amazing.
> 
> Ed O.


And think about how that will apply to game situations. We can dump it in to him down low and he'll be elevating for the dunk faster than opposing defenses can say Jack Robinson.

So explosive it's not even funny.


----------



## BlazerCaravan (Aug 12, 2004)

*Re: Pre-Draft measurements*

Is it just me, or are even Aldridge's numbers better than Durant's? :lol:


----------



## mook (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: Pre-Draft measurements*

...and he's faster than Aldridge, who was probably the fastest guy over 6'10 to play real minutes in the NBA last year? 

...and he's got 7.8% body fat? did Shaq every have body fat below 10? 

that little tiny corner of my brain that thought maybe, just maybe, Pritchard was seriously considering drafting Durant just got wallpapered over with a giant poster of Greg Oden holding a championship ring in a Blazer jersey.


----------



## ProudBFan (Apr 29, 2003)

RiggoDrill's comment at the bottom of the article said:


> These numbers are as close to porn as I could ever hope to surf on the internet at work.


Oden MUST be ours!

PBF


----------



## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

*Re: Pre-Draft measurements*



BlazerCaravan said:


> Is it just me, or are even Aldridge's numbers better than Durant's? :lol:


In all fairness to Mr. Durant, the #1 rated player in the Combine last year was David Noel.


----------



## crowTrobot (Jun 24, 2005)

ProudBFan said:


> Who is this "Oden" of which you speak?



the viking god of war?

..oh wait, that's odin. not sure which god oden is - blazer god of championships maybe?


----------



## crandc (Sep 15, 2004)

The Professional Fan said:


> Not really. He's just another Sam Bowie.


If we're really lucky he may be Ben Wallace.:biggrin:


----------



## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

*Aldridge* vs. Oden

Height w/o shoes: *6-10* vs. 6-11

Height w/ shoes: *6-11.25* vs. 7-0

Weight: *234 lbs* vs. 257 lbs

Wingspan: *7-4.75* vs. 7-4.25

Standing Reach: *9-2* vs. 9-4

3/4 court sprint: *3.43 seconds* vs. 3.27 seconds

No Step Vertical Jump: *26.5''* vs. 32''

Running Vertical Jump: *34"* vs. 34''

Lane Agility Drill: *12.02 seconds* vs. 11.67 seconds


----------



## el_Diablo (May 15, 2003)

as someone else already stated, agility is more important than plain speed in a longer sprint:



> Oden's 11.67 in the agility drill speaks volumes to the footwork so many scouts rave about. Durant did the same drill in 12.33.


sounds great..


----------



## BlazerCaravan (Aug 12, 2004)

What surprises me isn't so much that Oden's amazing (we knew that), but that Aldridge is physically a carbon copy of Durant, 1" taller and 19 pounds heavier. Does he have the drive Durant has? Maybe yes, maybe no. The shooting touch isn't as deep, but he's got a shot out to 18 feet, and he's a good FT shooter (shot 52%FG, 73%FT in March)... if we don't find a taker for Zach (heh), do we run LMA at SF for a while ala Sheed and Brian Grant?

Heck, draft Yi, and play a Triple Towers front line.


----------



## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

BlazerCaravan said:


> What surprises me isn't so much that Oden's amazing (we knew that), but that Aldridge is physically a carbon copy of Durant, 1" taller and 19 pounds heavier. Does he have the drive Durant has? Maybe yes, maybe no. The shooting touch isn't as deep, but he's got a shot out to 18 feet, and he's a good FT shooter (shot 52%FG, 73%FT in March)... if we don't find a taker for Zach (heh), do we run LMA at SF for a while ala Sheed and Brian Grant?
> 
> Heck, draft Yi, and play a Triple Towers front line.


Hmmm. Carbon Copy? I don't know about that. The difference between Aldridge and Durant is about the same as Oden and Aldridge (1" and about 20 lbs). I don't think anyone would consider Aldridge a carbon copy of Oden.


BTW, props to Quick on this one. I still haven't seen anyone else post detailed numbers for Oden or Durant. It looks like Jason really broke one this time. Good job.


----------



## Tennisball (Jun 4, 2007)

Thanks for the stats Samuel.

Now I'm kinda impressed by LA's stats too!

I'm completely sold on Oden now.


----------



## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

Apparently Horford measured in at almost 6-9 without shoes and 6-10 with.


----------



## BlazerCaravan (Aug 12, 2004)

Reep said:


> Hmmm. Carbon Copy? I don't know about that. The difference between Aldridge and Durant is about the same as Oden and Aldridge (1" and about 20 lbs). I don't think anyone would consider Aldridge a carbon copy of Oden.


It's not just height and weight, it's the entire set of results:

Aldridge versus Durant

6-10 vs 6-9 (w/o shoes)
6-11.25 vs 6-10.25 (with shoes)
234 vs 215 (weight)

7-4.75 vs 7-4.75 (wingspan)
9-2 vs 9-2 (standing reach)
3.43sec vs 3.45sec (3/4 court sprint)
26.5" vs 26" (no-step vert leap)
34" vs 33.5" (running leap)
12.02sec vs 12.33sec (lane agility drill)

*That* is what surprised me.


----------



## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

I have maintained the entire time since we were lucky enough to snag the top pick that although I prefered Oden either he or Kevin Durant would be great. That pretty much went out the window. While I still think Kevin Durant will be a great player, Oden is a serious freak that probably has never come along before. Big, strong, agile and fast? How can he not be the pick? 

I'll say it....Unless Oden's first two questions to KP during dinner are "where can I buy some pit bulls" and "where's the nearest strip club I can hit before bed" KP should be fired for passing on this freak.


Which by the way is my choice for a nickname. The Freak


----------



## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

His numbers look decent, but I'm not that blow away. 



> Oden didn't attempt the bench press in order to prevent an injury to his right wrist, which has recently recovered from injury.


This in particular is cause for alarm. He still can't even attempt a bench press for fear of snapping his bones? I'm telling you, he'll suffer injuries his whole career if he's that brittle now. Just like brittle Bowie.

Edited: I wasn't serious..


----------



## Samuel (Jan 1, 2003)

ProZach said:


> This in particular is cause for alarm. He still can't even attempt a bench press for fear of snapping his bones? I'm telling you, he'll suffer injuries his whole career if he's that brittle now. Just like brittle Bowie.


I doubt it's anything to be concerned about. My guess is, he was going to do it but Mr. Conley told him to be cautious and skip it. This is a drill where you bench 185 lbs as many times as you possibly can, meaning you're probably putting a decent bit of strain on your body by the time you're finished.

It looks like Oden is the unanimous #1 pick. He has nothing to gain and everything to lose by doing this drill. Why take any chances? Seriously?


----------



## e_blazer1 (Feb 3, 2004)

ProZach said:


> His numbers look decent, but I'm not that blow away.
> 
> 
> 
> This in particular is cause for alarm. He still can't even attempt a bench press for fear of snapping his bones? I'm telling you, he'll suffer injuries his whole career if he's that brittle now. Just like brittle Bowie.


You're not that impressed with a true center who can get up and down the court faster than Lamarcus Aldridge and can out-jump him flat footed by 5.5 inches? Wow, you are tough to impress.

As far as the weight lifting issue goes, I would assume he's following the advice of his doctors and his manager. Risking re-injuring the wrist at this point could have dramatic implications on his financial future. I can't say as I blame him or that it causes me any worries.


----------



## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

e_blazer1 said:


> You're not that impressed with a true center who can get up and down the court faster than Lamarcus Aldridge and can out-jump him flat footed by 5.5 inches? Wow, you are tough to impress.
> 
> As far as the weight lifting issue goes, I would assume he's following the advice of his doctors and his manager. Risking re-injuring the wrist at this point could have dramatic implications on his financial future. I can't say as I blame him or that it causes me any worries.


Nah, I was being sarcastic. The guy is a freak and I am definitely impressed.


----------



## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

No, what is cause for alarm is that Durant couldn't even bench 185 pounds once! Oden just didn't want to take the chance injuring his hand this soon. I mean why take the risk?


----------



## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

This may have been brought up during the flurry of topic threads right after the draft (god that was fun) . . . but can Aldridge play SF? 

I tend to think not, but this idea that he may be close to Durant's numbers made me think about it . . .

Heck can Oden play SF? : )


----------



## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

mgb said:


> No, what is cause for alarm is that Durant couldn't even bench 185 pounds once!


Seriously! I knew he was skinny but that seems unheard of for someone with so much hype surrounding him.


----------



## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

ProZach said:


> Seriously! I knew he was skinny but that seems unheard of for someone with so much hype surrounding him.


I never know how much to make of that though. I mean, the guy did average over 11 rebounds. I'm not sure KG could have done much better at the same age. Super long arms and a slim build are very bad for the bench press.


----------



## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

ProZach said:


> His numbers look decent, but I'm not that blow away.


Troll Alert! OK, what part didn't impress you? That the 7' 250 lb. center was for all intents and purposes as quick as one of the quickest 5'11" PGs in the country, or the fact that his 9'4" reach combined with his 32" standing vertical means he can hit 12' going straight up without a running start.



ProZach said:


> This in particular is cause for alarm. He still can't even attempt a bench press for fear of snapping his bones? I'm telling you, he'll suffer injuries his whole career if he's that brittle now. Just like brittle Bowie.


His wrist injury was a torn ligament, it had nothing to do with brittle bones. Not wishing to re-injure his surgically repaired wrist just to show everyone what they already know - he's plenty strong enough - is a wise move. What's to be gained by it? Nothing. Since we have the No. 1 pick, the last thing I want is for Greg Oden to take any unnecessary risks between now and draft day. The Bowie brittle bones camparison is asinine. Barbaro had brittle bones, too. You might as well make that comparison while your at it as it's every bit as valid as your Bowie nonsense.

BNM


----------



## BlazerCaravan (Aug 12, 2004)

ProZach said:


> Nah, I was being sarcastic. The guy is a freak and I am definitely impressed.


Quoting for BNM's sake.

And seriously, would it kill you sarcasm-meisters to use a :whistling: or a :tongue: ?


----------



## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

BlazerCaravan said:


> Quoting for BNM's sake.
> 
> And seriously, would it kill you sarcasm-meisters to use a :whistling: or a :tongue: ?


Thanks! I saw that immediately AFTER I made my post (must type faster...).

BNM


----------



## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> This may have been brought up during the flurry of topic threads right after the draft (god that was fun) . . . but can Aldridge play SF?
> 
> I tend to think not, but this idea that he may be close to Durant's numbers made me think about it . . .
> 
> Heck can Oden play SF? : )




I love the L-Train, but he doesn't have the handles that Durant does. He doesn't even have the handles Zach does, and I think you know how hard it is for me to say anything nice about Zach.


----------



## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

BlazerCaravan said:


> Quoting for BNM's sake.
> 
> And seriously, would it kill you sarcasm-meisters to use a :whistling: or a :tongue: ?


It would be very easy to do that, but not as fun. I can't help myself.:drool2: :devil2: :krazy: :angel:


----------



## SheedSoNasty (Dec 31, 2002)




----------



## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

Reep said:


> I never know how much to make of that though. I mean, the guy did average over 11 rebounds. I'm not sure KG could have done much better at the same age. Super long arms and a slim build are very bad for the bench press.


If I remember correctly, Aldridge did say that his College coach emphasized mobility and speed over strength and this is why he was, too, seen as soft and not strong enough. Remember that LA and KD went to the same college...

I would not be worried about it much, to be honest. KD will work out in the NBA and he will become strong enough. No real cause for concern.

I am still firmly in the draft Oden camp, however.


----------



## BlazerCaravan (Aug 12, 2004)

mediocre man said:


> I love the L-Train, but he doesn't have the handles that Durant does. He doesn't even have the handles Zach does, and I think you know how hard it is for me to say anything nice about Zach.


Are you talking "ability to catch a pass" handles or love handles? Zach definitely has Aldridge beat on the latter. 

LMA only averages 1.1 TO's per 36 minutes. He's definitely a guy you want to have the ball at the end of a play instead of in the middle, but he shoots 50% with a range out to 15-18 feet. I'd feel more confident about LMA playing SF than Outlaw or Webster... but in all seriousness, I'd rather have a legit SF than a PF/C playing SF.


----------



## mediocre man (Feb 24, 2004)

BlazerCaravan said:


> Are you talking "ability to catch a pass" handles or love handles? Zach definitely has Aldridge beat on the latter.
> 
> LMA only averages 1.1 TO's per 36 minutes. He's definitely a guy you want to have the ball at the end of a play instead of in the middle, but he shoots 50% with a range out to 15-18 feet. I'd feel more confident about LMA playing SF than Outlaw or Webster... but in all seriousness, I'd rather have a legit SF than a PF/C playing SF.




I'm talking about dribbling, or taking someone off the dribble. Aldridge just isn't there yet.


----------



## gambitnut (Jan 4, 2003)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> This may have been brought up during the flurry of topic threads right after the draft (god that was fun) . . . but can Aldridge play SF?
> 
> I tend to think not, but this idea that he may be close to Durant's numbers made me think about it . . .
> 
> Heck can Oden play SF? : )


Oden might be too busy playing PG.


----------



## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

I just want to point out how shocked I am that a person calling themselves Pro _Zach is causing a stir in the wake of Zachs role being realistically obsolete in Portland.


----------



## TP3 (Jan 26, 2003)

What's scary is how good Durant is going to be when he starts shaving and gets some shoulders. The dude is like a giraffe right now - just a late bloomer physically. With his much hyped work ethic the guy is going to put some weight on and that's only going to make him better.

That being said...we'd be morons not to jump at Oden.


----------



## ProZach (Oct 13, 2005)

Schilly said:


> I just want to point out how shocked I am that a person calling themselves Pro _Zach is causing a stir in the wake of Zachs role being realistically obsolete in Portland.



Maybe that's it. I'm just so distraught at the prospect of his tenure here in Portland being finished that the only way to fill this void in my heart is to cause a ruckus. Hopefully I'll pull through.


----------



## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

*Re: Pre-Draft measurements*



BlazerCaravan said:


> Is it just me, or are even Aldridge's numbers better than Durant's? :lol:



:whoknows: What's to laugh at? By normal human standards (IE non-Oden), LaMarcus is an incredibly athletic big man.


----------



## BlazerCaravan (Aug 12, 2004)

*Re: Pre-Draft measurements*



Oldmangrouch said:


> :whoknows: What's to laugh at? By normal human standards (IE non-Oden), LaMarcus is an incredibly athletic big man.


I was laughing with joy, actually.


----------



## Public Defender (May 5, 2003)

What Oden's numbers indicate to me is that he could realistically be called upon to defend any of three different positions on the floor. That could make for some seriously huge lineups for the Blazers, if McMillan were feeling so inclined. 

How about:

PG: Brandon Roy (6'6")
SG: Travis Outlaw (6'9")
SF: Greg Oden (7')
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge (6'11")
C: Joel Przybilla (7'1") 

It'd remind me of the days the Blazers had Pippen and Smith in the backcourt, with Sheed, Grant, and Sabas up front. That team didn't have the wind to play that long together, but talk about defense and rebounding! 

But this new lineup, I think could be even better than that one. Up by eight points with five minutes left? Put in the "Mount Hood National Forest" lineup and shut 'em down. That lineup could probably score pretty well, too - not that they'd really have to. 

Giddy is the word of the day. Wow, wow, wow.


----------



## GOD (Jun 22, 2003)

That lineup would average over 6'10". crazy. I really can't see Outlaw playing SG in any condition. But slot Lewis in there at 6'10" and now you're talking.


----------



## NateBishop3 (Jul 22, 2003)

mediocre man said:


> I'll say it....Unless Oden's first two questions to KP during dinner are "where can I buy some pit bulls" and "where's the nearest strip club I can hit before bed" KP should be fired for passing on this freak.


:lol: :laugh:

"So Kevin, I heard Oregon has some good weed... that true?"


----------



## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

andalusian said:


> If I remember correctly, Aldridge did say that his College coach emphasized mobility and speed over strength and this is why he was, too, seen as soft and not strong enough. Remember that LA and KD went to the same college...
> 
> I would not be worried about it much, to be honest. KD will work out in the NBA and he will become strong enough. No real cause for concern.
> 
> I am still firmly in the draft Oden camp, however.


I agree, KD will probably do just like Aldridge and commit to working out and gaining the upper body strength.

I also agree draft ODEN!!


----------



## Minstrel (Dec 31, 2002)

Public Defender said:


> It'd remind me of the days the Blazers had Pippen and Smith in the backcourt, with Sheed, Grant, and Sabas up front. That team didn't have the wind to play that long together, but talk about defense and rebounding!


A young Pippen would be a nice small forward for this team.


----------



## Utherhimo (Feb 20, 2005)

draft YI draft YI 

the Tri-Towers!


----------



## Public Defender (May 5, 2003)

Nate McVillain said:


> That lineup would average over 6'10". crazy. I really can't see Outlaw playing SG in any condition. But slot Lewis in there at 6'10" and now you're talking.


With that lineup, Outlaw could gamble and play crazy perimeter defense, knowing that Oden/Aldridge/Przybilla would have his back if someone drove past him. I could see 'shard slipping in there instead, but I was looking at the roster without a trade for Lewis.


----------



## For Three! Rip City! (Nov 11, 2003)

Very interesting numbers. I'm a huge Aldridge fan but I'm firmly convinced that he cannot play small forward effectively. What these numbers actually call into question is whether Durant will ever effectively defend at the small forward position. If he's too slow, does he become a tweener? The speed of a power forward with the body of a small forward in other words. 

It would be really intesesting to see Durant's numbers up against some of the top small forwards in the league. 

I would pick Oden in a landslide at this point.


----------



## dkap (May 13, 2003)

I'm curious how hard Durant was working in the drills. One of the recaps I read said he seemed rather disinterested at the camp, but I'm not sure for which part(s).

Dan


----------



## mgb (Jun 26, 2004)

Durant probably figures he's going to be drafted by the Sonics regardless so he's just going through the motions.


----------



## wizmentor (Nov 10, 2005)

Public Defender said:


> With that lineup, Outlaw could gamble and play crazy perimeter defense, knowing that Oden/Aldridge/Przybilla would have his back if someone drove past him. I could see 'shard slipping in there instead, but I was looking at the roster without a trade for Lewis.


Because he knows he'll have Oden/Aldridge/Przybilla behind him, Outlaw's already practicing his cherry picking :biggrin:


----------



## blazerboy30 (Apr 30, 2003)

dkap said:


> I'm curious how hard Durant was working in the drills. One of the recaps I read said he seemed rather disinterested at the camp, but I'm not sure for which part(s).
> 
> Dan



_IF_ this is true, it should be even more reason to NOT draft Durant. After all this talk about his love for the game, and love for pushing himself and working hard, he couldn't even give it a hard effort for some important measurements? 

Even if he has given in to the fact that he will go #2, I would still want somebody with enough pride to give it their all in a situation like this.


----------



## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

blazerboy30 said:


> _IF_ this is true, it should be even more reason to NOT draft Durant. After all this talk about his love for the game, and love for pushing himself and working hard, he couldn't even give it a hard effort for some important measurements?
> 
> Even if he has given in to the fact that he will go #2, I would still want somebody with enough pride to give it their all in a situation like this.



I hear what you are saying, but if there is a player to be concerned about not having enough internal drive, it would be Oden. Oden sounds like a hard worker, someone who takes pride in improving, but doesn't seem crazy about basketball.

I still think the Blazers need to draft Oden, but in spite of pre-draft camp performances, Durant appears to be the overachieveing basketaball nut and Oden stumbled upon a good way to make a living.


----------



## The Professional Fan (Nov 5, 2003)

blazerboy30 said:


> _IF_ this is true, it should be even more reason to NOT draft Durant. After all this talk about his love for the game, and love for pushing himself and working hard, he couldn't even give it a hard effort for some important measurements?
> 
> Even if he has given in to the fact that he will go #2, I would still want somebody with enough pride to give it their all in a situation like this.


That's what I was thinking. If KP recognized that Durant was "uninterested" or wasn't trying as hard as he could, then that, more than anything, would turn KP off. Either way....it's a win-win for the Blazers.


----------



## BlazerCaravan (Aug 12, 2004)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> I still think the Blazers need to draft Oden, but in spite of pre-draft camp performances, Durant appears to be the overachieveing basketaball nut and Oden stumbled upon a good way to make a living.


That's very possible, but the big difference I see between Oden and other "basketball is a job" players is this:

Oden -> Dentist
Darius -> pot-smoking ice-cream magnate

There's brains involved.

Also, I worry that there are limits to what hard work can do if the natural talent level has a lower ceiling. That seems to be Durant's situation: lots and lots of hard work have made him the best offensive college player in years, but how much higher can he go? We talk about how Clyde could have been so much better with a work ethic, but this is a reversal of that situation. I worry that Durant's ceiling isn't unlimited.

And one other thing occured to me: Oden had to have worked hard at those drills to get the results he did, and there's only one reason to do that if you're the prohibitive 1st or 2nd pick: to guarantee that you're the first pick... Portland's pick.

He wants to be here, methinks.


----------



## Reep (Jun 4, 2003)

For Three! Rip City! said:


> Very interesting numbers. I'm a huge Aldridge fan but I'm firmly convinced that he cannot play small forward effectively. What these numbers actually call into question is whether Durant will ever effectively defend at the small forward position. If he's too slow, does he become a tweener? The speed of a power forward with the body of a small forward in other words.


I'm a total tweener-hater. I wouldn't touch Brandon Wright, just like I wouldn't have taken Tyrus or Marvin Williams. However, Durant won't be "tweener" for two reasons. First, he can shoot from anywhere. Second, he has a solid handle. Players end up being tweeners because they aren't big enough, or don't have the post moves to play PF, and they don't have the handle or outside shot to play the three. Durant will be able to play the three and will play better than his combine numbers would indicate. 

However, I think Oden has proven himself here. It trust KP, but if the pick is not Oden, then somebondy has some 'splainin to do.


----------



## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

BlazerCaravan said:


> That's very possible, but the big difference I see between Oden and other "basketball is a job" players is this:
> 
> Oden -> Dentist
> Darius -> pot-smoking ice-cream magnate
> ...



I agree with a lot of that and wasn't trying to imply that Oden would be another Miles. Oden appears to be a quality indivudual who believes in hard work (wants to start to take 1000 shots a day). Durant has had a basketball in his hand since birth (or something like that) and, while being young, may have already tapped into a large part of his potential.

But it's wierd and I wonder if anyone else has picked up on what I have (or is it my own paranoia) . . . I try to read as many articles on Oden as possible, and many of them glow about his abilities but I get a sense he isn't that passionate about the sport. I also think that he has had a different type of childhood and one that would allow him to be content in a beautiful but small market place like Ptd.

I would think that given Portland's situation and Seattle's situation, both Durant and Oden would prefer to play for Ptd.


----------



## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> I hear what you are saying, but if there is a player to be concerned about not having enough internal drive, it would be Oden. Oden sounds like a hard worker, someone who takes pride in improving, but doesn't seem crazy about basketball.


I don't get this comment at all. Yes, Oden is an intelligent kid with other interests, but he's been eating, sleeping and breathing basketball since 7th grade. In addition to leading his high school team to three straight state championships, he's also been playing AAU ball. His family moved to Indianapolis just so he would be closer to his AAU team to practice with them. He's basically been playing basketball year round for the last eight years. That's quite a commitment from a young kid, and if that kind of commitment doesn't show a love for the game, then I don't know what would.

BNM


----------



## B_&_B (Feb 19, 2004)

ESPN's Jay Bilas (spelling?) just said that Luke Ridnour and T.Prince couldnt bench 185 in the predraft camp either.


----------



## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Boob-No-More said:


> I don't get this comment at all. Yes, Oden is an intelligent kid with other interests, but he's been eating, sleeping and breathing basketball since 7th grade. In addition to leading his high school team to three straight state championships, he's also been playing AAU ball. His family moved to Indianapolis just so he would be closer to his AAU team to practice with them. He's basically been playing basketball year round for the last eight years. That's quite a commitment from a young kid, and if that kind of commitment doesn't show a love for the game, then I don't know what would.
> 
> BNM



Well I guess reading the articles on him we have a different take, but to not understand that statement at all makes it sound like it is a novel idea when many have expressed some of these concerns.

I don't want to get caught into an anti-Oden debate, because I'm not. But to repond to your version of his history . . . don't you find it odd that he was the tallest player, started basketball in fourth grade but really didn't get into it until three years later. I mean most kids in fourth grade who like basketball can't put a b-ball down to eat dinner.

And Oden really didn't get into basketball until he could dunk . . . and didn't dominate until his second year in HS. To me, he just didn't show a passion for the game the way Durant has. But he does sound like a hard worker and a smart indivdual . . . and if he is a smart indivdual, he knows he can work hard, makes millions and possibly stamp his footprint in NBA history. I don't doubt he will attempt to do this.


----------



## andalusian (Jun 29, 2006)

I can not fault anyone that played as hard as he had with his wrist problems and was the best player on the court when it mattered in the championship game with that problem. I just can not. If he did not love basketball and hate to lose - he could have just taken the year off or played just good enough to match his average production.


----------



## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> I don't want to get caught into an anti-Oden debate, because I'm not. But to repond to your version of his history . . . don't you find it odd that he was the tallest player, started basketball in fourth grade but really didn't get into it until three years later. I mean most kids in fourth grade who like basketball can't put a b-ball down to eat dinner.


I grew up in Indiana, and although it was quite a while ago, I didn't even have the opportunity to play organized ball until the 5th grade. I grew up in a small town and my only option was my elementary school team that didn't start until the 5th grade. Oden also spent his childhood in a rather small town (although bigger than the one I grew up in). I have no idea what his options were and what the quality of the coaching was that he received in 4th grade. Yes, basketball is like a religion in Indiana, but how involved a small child becomes is a function of many factors (i.e. available opportunities, quality of coaching, parental involvement and priorities, if he has older brothers playing the sport, if his best friends play the sport, etc.) 

I don't hold the fact that he wasn't a 4th grade phenom obsessed with basketball at age 10 against him at all. In fact, I'm much more impressed with by how quickly he progressed once he was "discovered" and got some proper coaching. He went from a kid who couldn't make a lay-up to the most dominating high school player in the country in a span of about three years. By the time he was 15, he was wowing scouts and college coaches at the Nike All American camp. To me, what he's accomplished since 7th grade impresses me sufficiently that I have no concerns about how dedicated he was to the game in elementary school.

BNM


----------



## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Boob-No-More said:


> I grew up in Indiana, and although it was quite a while ago, I didn't even have the opportunity to play organized ball until the 5th grade. I grew up in a small town and my only option was my elementary school team that didn't start until the 5th grade. Oden also spent his childhood in a rather small town (although bigger than the one I grew up in). I have no idea what his options were and what the quality of the coaching was that he received in 4th grade. Yes, basketball is like a religion in Indiana, but how involved a small child becomes is a function of many factors (i.e. available opportunities, quality of coaching, parental involvement and priorities, if he has older brothers playing the sport, if his best friends play the sport, etc.)
> 
> I don't hold the fact that he wasn't a 4th grade phenom obsessed with basketball at age 10 against him at all. In fact, I'm much more impressed with by how quickly he progressed once he was "discovered" and got some proper coaching. He went from a kid who couldn't make a lay-up to the most dominating high school player in the country in a span of about three years. By the time he was 15, he was wowing scouts and college coaches at the Nike All American camp. To me, what he's accomplished since 7th grade impresses me sufficiently that I have no concerns about how dedicated he was to the game in elementary school.
> 
> BNM


OK . . . so you think he is incredibly passionate about the game of basketball. I see it differently. I don't think we are goig to change each other's mind, but thought you might be interested in the following part of an article . . . which shows he didn't progress that quickly when first "discovered" and got proper coaching. But whatever, the kid is a physical freak and intelligent to boot . . . that is a great combination regardless if you or I are right about his passion for the game.


"Indeed, something did happen -- Oden last season became the most dominant big man in college basketball, leading Ohio State to the NCAA championship game. 

Even so, it was a process. Although he was by far the tallest player -- standing 6-2 in the fourth grade -- Oden didn't play much for his first team, or even the next year. 

Smith, his first AAU coach, said he thinks Oden's game began to come together around the seventh grade, when a 6-7 Oden found he could dunk. 

But Mike Conley Jr. -- who later would be a teammate of Oden's at Ohio State -- said it took until high school for Oden to develop. Oden moved to Indianapolis during his eighth-grade year and played on Conley's elite and successful AAU team. 

"You want the truth? He wasn't too hot," Conley said. 

Conley said Oden sat on the bench. His main role was to be himself: Big. 

"Teams might look at him and be scared. But he didn't do anything else besides that," Conley said."


----------



## yuyuza1 (May 24, 2006)

He wouldn't have played with a busted wrist in college while risking a serious injury, or his future if he wasn't passionate about basketball.


----------



## Boob-No-More (Apr 24, 2006)

That tells me nothing about his current passion for the game. Big kids are often slower to develop coordination and other athletic skills. So, he was a big, awkward, talentless kid in elementary school. I still don't see how that shows he currently lacks a passion for the game of basketball. For Pete's sake, he wasn't any good when he was in 4th and 5th grade. You expect him to show love and obsession for something he's not any good at? 

Again, I'm much more impressed with what he's accomplished since 7th/8th grade than concerned about what he did or didn't do before. I find it totally unfathomable that someone lacking passion for the game could go from one of the worst players on his team to one of the most dominant players his age in a span of about three years - and continue to dominate and improve ever since. Seriously, in 8th grade "he wasn't too hot", but by the time he was a 15-year old sophomore he was THE talk of the Nike All American camp and already being projected as an NBA lottery pick. How did that incredible transformation occur if he lacks passion for the game of basketball?

BNM


----------



## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

andalusian said:


> I can not fault anyone that played as hard as he had with his wrist problems and was the best player on the court when it mattered in the championship game with that problem. I just can not. If he did not love basketball and hate to lose - he could have just taken the year off or played just good enough to match his average production.



I'm really not faulting Oden . . . just a simple opinion by one poster who started reading articles after the draft . . . maybe a wrong opinion, I don't know the dude, but an unpopular opinion for sure.


----------



## Schilly (Dec 30, 2002)

ProZach said:


> Maybe that's it. I'm just so distraught at the prospect of his tenure here in Portland being finished that the only way to fill this void in my heart is to cause a ruckus. Hopefully I'll pull through.


I wish you the best of luck.


----------



## meru (Jul 2, 2003)

While you can count me firmly in the "I'll be very mad if we take Durant over Oden" camp, it's worth pointing out that great combine numbers are neither necessary nor sufficient for being a great player. Here's a good summary of players who have tested as studs but turned out duds (Troy Bell, Kirk Snyder), and vice versa (Monta Ellis, Andre Iguodala). Interestingly, the players who tested poorly are not just good basketball players who make up for their athletic weaknesses with smarts, they're often great athletes (Ellis and Iguodala, obviously), so these combines don't necessarily show much. Remember who had the best vertical last year? Jordan Formar!



Jonathan Givony said:


> Who was the top athlete in the 2003 draft? Thinking logically about that draft, you’d probably assume it was a toss up between Dwyane Wade and Lebron James. But in fact, it was 6-2 shooting guard Troy Bell, who did not make it past his rookie contract before being cut by the man who reached badly to draft him in Jerry West. Bell was affectionately nicknamed “Troy Airbell” by ACB Spanish league fans he horrified with the air-balls he jacked up playing for Real Madrid, and struggled this past season to run a D-League team. Bell measured a 41 inch vertical leap (which would rank 1st in this year’s combine), ran a 3.06 in the ¾ court sprint (also 1st), and bench pressed the 185 pound bar 17 times (fourth amongst guards). If Bell were eligible this year, he most likely again would be deemed the top athlete in this year’s draft too.
> 
> The 2005 draft combine was equally as pointless. Monta Ellis ranked as the worst athlete of all the players measured, coming out slow, weak and with very little leaping ability. Once the NBA season started and the ball actually rolled out on the court, though, he magically transformed into a spectacular athlete who can get his shot at will and dunks anything and everything that is remotely close to the basket, despite only being 6-3. Eventual rookie of the year Chris Paul was declared only the 15th best athlete amongst the players tested, and was somehow deemed slower than Deron Williams, Sean May and Wayne Simien.
> 
> This year’s combine has to take the cake, though. Kevin Durant, who wowed NBA scouts and basketball fans around the world all season long with an incredible skill level and extremely impressive agility for a player his size, measured out as essentially the worst athlete in the draft. Just a few days ago we sat alongside those same NBA scouts drooling over the way he soared above the rim dunking the ball and running the floor like a gazelle…but the tale of the tape tells us that that was all a mirage. If there was ever a case to be made for the waste of time known as the NBA combine, it’s right now.


----------



## Talkhard (May 13, 2003)

Kiss_My_Darius said:


> I still think the Blazers need to draft Oden, but in spite of pre-draft camp performances, Durant appears to be the overachieveing basketaball nut and Oden stumbled upon a good way to make a living.


I hardly think that's the case. Most guys who play the game also love the game. The two usually go hand in hand.


----------



## Oldmangrouch (Feb 11, 2003)

That Givony article is interesting, but also puzzling. 

The one side of the coin is easy to understand: being a great athlete doesn't make you a great basketball player.

The other side is harder to fathom. If a guy looks like he can run and jump during the game, how can he test so poorly on the drills?


----------



## dkap (May 13, 2003)

Drills are generally a test of who has practiced those drills the most... And what if someone has a sore ankle that they didn't want to make a fuss about? It would surely affect how they test out.

Dan


----------



## It's_GO_Time (Oct 13, 2005)

Talkhard said:


> I hardly think that's the case. Most guys who play the game also love the game. The two usually go hand in hand.



True . . . I even know people that don't play the game and love it. :biggrin:


----------

