# Boston Celtics Early '06 Draft Thread



## SamVincent11 (Nov 29, 2005)

Just curious if we still have the Lakers' first round pick from the Chris Mihm-Gary Payton trade because the Lakers' record is one of the worst in the Western Conference right now.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Does anybody know if we still have Lakers' first round pick?*



SamVincent11 said:


> Just curious if we still have the Lakers' first round pick from the Chris Mihm-Gary Payton trade because the Lakers' record is one of the worst in the Western Conference right now.



We still have it, but I think it's top 10 protected this year...or maybe lottery.

Also if we do get their pick, then our own pick is going to Atlanta as part of the Walker trade.

If we don't get their pick, then we keep our own, I believe.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Does anybody know if we still have Lakers' first round pick?*

Yes, the Celtics still have the Lakers conditional first round pick. The conditions are as follows (one correction that I got from a Lakers fan is that the pick is protected in 2008):

2006- Top 10 protected
2007- Top 5 protected
2008- Top 3 protected
2009- Unprotected

The pick that Boston traded to Atlanta as part of the Walker deal was dealt to Phoenix as part of the Joe Johnson deal. The conditions on _that_ pick were as follows:

The Celtics mush have at least two picks in the draft in which the pick is conveyed.
The pick is lottery protected until 2007.
The pick conveyed will be the lowest of the Celtics first round picks.
The pick must be conveyed no later than the 2007 draft.


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## SamVincent11 (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: Does anybody know if we still have Lakers' first round pick?*

Thanks. I just hope we don't get screwed either way - by Hawks or Lakers. I loathe the Lakers, even when they're bad.


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## vandyke (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: Does anybody know if we still have Lakers' first round pick?*



ehmunro said:


> Yes, the Celtics still have the Lakers conditional first round pick. The conditions are as follows (one correction that I got from a Lakers fan is that the pick is protected in 2008):
> 
> 2006- Top 10 protected
> 2007- Top 5 protected
> ...


I was trying to figure that out all weekend, so it is very possible that we might have two lottery picks this year as long as the Lakers pick falls below number 10, but not out of the lottery we would then send the lower of either our pick or Cleveland's next year to Phoenix. Is that correct?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Does anybody know if we still have Lakers' first round pick?*

Yes, if both Boston and LA miss the playoffs, and LA's pick falls 11-14, then Boston gets two lottery selections and the Suns wait till 2007 to collect the pick. At which time it will probably be a Cleveland first round pick.


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## andy787 (Jun 9, 2003)

*woe are the celtics*

it is so depressing, gone are the days when our thinking before our teams plays is who would win this contest ? let's not forget during the 80's is how many points our team will win. now the question would be how many points would the celtics lose ? if they win, we could praise the heavens for the miracle.
it's clear, our destination this year is the lottery. so might as well keep on losing to get top notch talent to build upon.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: woe are the celtics*



andy787 said:


> it is so depressing, gone are the days when our thinking before our teams plays is who would win this contest ? let's not forget during the 80's is how many points our team will win. now the question would be how many points would the celtics lose ? if they win, we could praise the heavens for the miracle.
> it's clear, our destination this year is the lottery. so might as well keep on losing to get top notch talent to build upon.



We could get two lotto picks, whupiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: woe are the celtics*



andy787 said:


> it is so depressing, gone are the days when our thinking before our teams plays is who would win this contest ? let's not forget during the 80's is how many points our team will win. now the question would be how many points would the celtics lose ? if they win, we could praise the heavens for the miracle.
> it's clear, our destination this year is the lottery. so might as well keep on losing to get top notch talent to build upon.


If there _were_ top notch talent in this year's draft pool, it might make sense, but there really isn't. Even the top 3 look pretty weak.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

*Re: woe are the celtics*

Adam Morrison


Just lose baby


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: woe are the celtics*



Gerald Green said:


> Adam Morrison
> 
> 
> Just lose baby



Or trade the picks for 2007.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: woe are the celtics*

Adam Morrison doesn't look like a good NBA player at all. He will be drafted way too highly by a team who thinks he is the next Larry Bird.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

*Re: woe are the celtics*

we are young enough. If we keep going to the lottery we will be come the Clippers of the past 20 years.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: woe are the celtics*

Some scenarios:

The Boston Celtics and Los Angeles Lakers both miss the playoffs this season, but the Lakers do not end up with a top ten draft pick. The Celtics would have two picks this season. Next year, the Celtics would finish behind the Cavaliers and Phoenix would get their selection.

The Boston Celtics and Los Angeles Lakers both miss the playoffs this season, but the Lakers end up with a top ten draft pick. The Celtics would have one selection this season (their own). Next year, the Celtics would finish behind the Cavaliers and Phoenix would get their selection. Boston would have the Lakers and their own selections in 2007.

The Boston Celtics make the playoffs this season, but the Lakers do not end up with a top ten draft pick. The Celtics would have one selection this season (the Lakers pick). Boston's selection would go to Phoenix and the Celtics would have two selections next season (Cleveland and their own).


The Boston Celtics and Los Angleles make the playoffs this season. The Celtics would have one selection this season (the greater of the two picks). Boston's selection would go to Phoenix and the Celtics would have two selections next season (Cleveland and their own).

I think that's right.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: woe are the celtics*



Gerald Green said:


> Adam Morrison
> 
> 
> Just lose baby


The only real use of Adam Morrison would be trade bait. He's Mike Dunleavy Extra Lite. Sean Williams (presuming he's in) would be a better bet.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: woe are the celtics*

Sean Williams was busted for marijuana. Doesn't seem like a character guy that Danny would draft but he is a great defender and shot-blocker.

I don't know if he's that much better than Hakim Warrick though.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: woe are the celtics*

Yeah, with character guys like Ricky & Tony Allen, who needs someone that got busted with a joint? :bsmile:

Sean Williams is younger than Al, Hakim Warrick is three years older than Williams and just barely better. Williams is an aggressive defender, explosive athlete, bigger & stronger than Warrick (who's really not strong enough to play extended time at the 4), and extremely long. Plus, due to the probation, likely to be around in the mid-first when Boston will be selecting. And having an über-athletic four that can D up will most certainly light a fire under Jefferson.


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## KingHandles (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: woe are the celtics*

Yeah. Maybe we don't win as much anymore, and we struggle alot. Stay with your team, the wins will come with time. It's all for the love of the Celtics, and passion for the game.


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

*Re: woe are the celtics*



Premier said:


> Some scenarios:
> 
> The Boston Celtics and Los Angeles Lakers both miss the playoffs this season, but the Lakers do not end up with a top ten draft pick. The Celtics would have two picks this season. Next year, the Celtics would finish behind the Cavaliers and Phoenix would get their selection.
> 
> ...


I lost ya back in the 1st paragraph


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## AMΣRICAN GOD™ (Jun 4, 2005)

*Draft picks...*

Where do you we end up?

Who do you want?


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Draft picks...*



TAllen42 said:


> Where do you we end up?
> 
> Who do you want?



Playoffs!

One of the weaker teams!


:rofl:

Probably in the late lottery. 
A PF would be nice...getting to the all-star game before asking this is also nice.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

*Re: Draft picks...*

Adam Morrison, Just Lose Baby!


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Draft picks...*

You sound like Dick Vitale (and I hate his guts).

Rondo would be nice to fill the Marcus Banks void (and some...).


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Draft picks...*

What happened to the rest of the thread?


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Draft picks...*



ehmunro said:


> What happened to the rest of the thread?



Everybody's signature is larger than the thread. 


And please, are you still taking reservation for the Veal fan club?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Draft picks...*

You know, when I went out to the bar to watch the game, there were about 12 posts in this thread. When I got home after, there were four. Oh, and done.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Draft picks...*



ehmunro said:


> You know, when I went out to the bar to watch the game, there were about 12 posts in this thread. When I got home after, there were four. Oh, and done.


Ah...it was another thread, now merged. 

Thanks! When do I receive my "Taking it inside on Yao" membership card?


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## SamVincent11 (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: woe are the celtics*



Causeway said:


> we are young enough. If we keep going to the lottery we will be come the Clippers of the past 20 years.


Causeway,

Why do you assume that we are going to be just like the Clippers? The Clippers have an owner who's not interested in winning games. They've had plenty of decent to good players that they've let go because they don't sign them to good long term deals. If the Celtics owner has that mentality, then we won't be good no matter what happens. 

Going to the lottery can be good sometimes. The Magic dumped T-Mac, who when healthy, is better than everyone's favorite Celtic, Paul "the Lie" Pierce. Then they drafted Dwight Howard, who's currently better than Big Al, and now have more cap room for future free agents.


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## PatBateman (May 26, 2003)

*Re: woe are the celtics*



SamVincent11 said:


> Causeway,
> 
> Why do you assume that we are going to be just like the Clippers? The Clippers have an owner who's not interested in winning games. They've had plenty of decent to good players that they've let go because they don't sign them to good long term deals. If the Celtics owner has that mentality, then we won't be good no matter what happens.
> 
> Going to the lottery can be good sometimes. The Magic dumped T-Mac, who when healthy, is better than everyone's favorite Celtic, Paul "the Lie" Pierce. Then they drafted Dwight Howard, who's currently better than Big Al, and now have more cap room for future free agents.


And they also got Stevie Franchise. Good post Sam.


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## cgcatsfan (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: woe are the celtics*



SamVincent11 said:


> Causeway,
> 
> Why do you assume that we are going to be just like the Clippers? The Clippers have an owner who's not interested in winning games. They've had plenty of decent to good players that they've let go because they don't sign them to good long term deals. If the Celtics owner has that mentality, then we won't be good no matter what happens.
> 
> Going to the lottery can be good sometimes. The Magic dumped T-Mac, who when healthy, is better than everyone's favorite Celtic, Paul "the Lie" Pierce. Then they drafted Dwight Howard, who's currently better than Big Al, and now have more cap room for future free agents.


Going to the lottery can be good some times. Just not every year. 
I'm sorry, did you say Paul the Lie Pierce? Paul is a great player. His stats are pretty impressive this year. 
2005-06 Statistics from NBA.com

Ranks #5 in the NBA in Points Per Game(26.7) Ranks #19 in the NBA in Rebounds Per Game(8.9) 
Ranks #17 in the NBA in Three-Point Field-Goal Percentage(0.439) Ranks #16 in the NBA in Steals Per Game(1.67) 
Ranks #8 in the NBA in Field Goals Made(155.0) Ranks #11 in the NBA in Field Goal Attempts(315.0) 
Ranks #3 in the NBA in Free Throws(145.0) Ranks #3 in the NBA in Free Throw Attempts(180.0) 
Ranks #9 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds(136.0) Ranks #9 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds Per Game(7.6) 
Ranks #18 in the NBA in Total Rebounds(160.0) Ranks #13 in the NBA in Steals(30.0) 
Ranks #5 in the NBA in Points(480.0) Ranks #13 in the NBA in Double-doubles(9.0) 
Ranks #13 in the NBA in Field Goals Per 48 Minutes(10.63) Ranks #3 in the NBA in Free Throws Per 48 Minutes(9.94) 
Ranks #4 in the NBA in Points Per 48 Minutes(32.9) 
Ranks #5 in the NBA in Total Efficiency Points(500.0) Ranks #5 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking(27.78) 
Ranks #5 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking Per 48 Minutes(34.29)


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

*Re: woe are the celtics*

My point was not that the lottery was bad in general. But making a habit of going to the lottery can be bad. We are very young as it is and it does not look like a great draft this year - certainly not a very deep one. 

I also am never a fan of tanking it.


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## BackwoodsBum (Jul 2, 2003)

*Re: woe are the celtics*



Causeway said:


> My point was not that the lottery was bad in general. But making a habit of going to the lottery can be bad. We are very young as it is and it does not look like a great draft this year - certainly not a very deep one.
> 
> I also am never a fan of tanking it.


I watched the C's and Rockets on satellite and got the Houston broadcast team instead of Tommy and Mike. Clyde Drexler was talking about how talented the C's young guys were and how this team had a really bright future. The other guy (I forget who he was) pointed out something that really stood out to me. He said that yes they had a bright future, but if you were constantly building for the future you would never have a present. Pretty simple observation but one that seems to be overlooked a lot. At some point you have to decide that you have the talent to win and stick with them, or you have to decide to start over and blow it all up. 

Ainge has pretty much blown up the team he inherited and brought in a lot of nice young talent. I don't see the C's getting lucky enough to get a player that could help this team significantly in the '06 draft so I would rather that they got the playoff experience even if it's a first round loss. Perkins, Jefferson, etc. are close IMHO and I think that they are really lacking experience more than talent. I think it's time to see what they have and not worry about trying to find more young talent that we won't really have time to develop. I wouldn't mind if this year's pick were packaged with Blount for future picks or expiring contracts. Think about it, everyone was so glad that we got Gerald Green this year and even as good as he may be in time he hasn't had a chance to work his way into the lineup at all. I doubt we could add anyone better this year so they would be even further down on the list when the playing time is handed out. Let's develop the guys we have and see what happens.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

*Re: woe are the celtics*



> but if you were constantly building for the future you would never have a present.


great line and excellent post. You said much better what I was trying to say.


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## SamVincent11 (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: woe are the celtics*



cgcatsfan said:


> Going to the lottery can be good some times. Just not every year.
> I'm sorry, did you say Paul the Lie Pierce? Paul is a great player. His stats are pretty impressive this year.
> 2005-06 Statistics from NBA.com
> 
> ...


Cgcatsfan,

I'm not denying the stats you have found. Pierce is having arguably his best season all around (in terms of stats), but I refer to him as "the Lie" because his numbers are misleading. The fact of the matter is that Pierce is not someone you want to build around because he's not a leader. 
He embarrased himself when he was with the US men's basketball squad, and now is begging to return. He made a fool of himself during last year's playoffs by pushing Tinsley to the floor and waving his Celtic jersey like it was some kind of rag after he got ejected. A leader of team, especially with so many youngsters, should not act like that. 
And I'll bet you that he'll start to crack under the pressure this year, especially if the Celtics continue playing the way they have. He's 28 and he wants to play for a contender. The Celtics, even if they make the playoffs, play in the worst division in the NBA and in a weak conference, so it won't mean a damn thing. Danny will either pull the trigger on him when the right deal comes around or PP will demand a trade after this season.


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## SamVincent11 (Nov 29, 2005)

*Re: woe are the celtics*



BackwoodsBum said:


> I watched the C's and Rockets on satellite and got the Houston broadcast team instead of Tommy and Mike. Clyde Drexler was talking about how talented the C's young guys were and how this team had a really bright future. The other guy (I forget who he was) pointed out something that really stood out to me. He said that yes they had a bright future, but if you were constantly building for the future you would never have a present. Pretty simple observation but one that seems to be overlooked a lot. At some point you have to decide that you have the talent to win and stick with them, or you have to decide to start over and blow it all up.
> 
> Ainge has pretty much blown up the team he inherited and brought in a lot of nice young talent. I don't see the C's getting lucky enough to get a player that could help this team significantly in the '06 draft so I would rather that they got the playoff experience even if it's a first round loss. Perkins, Jefferson, etc. are close IMHO and I think that they are really lacking experience more than talent. I think it's time to see what they have and not worry about trying to find more young talent that we won't really have time to develop. I wouldn't mind if this year's pick were packaged with Blount for future picks or expiring contracts. Think about it, everyone was so glad that we got Gerald Green this year and even as good as he may be in time he hasn't had a chance to work his way into the lineup at all. I doubt we could add anyone better this year so they would be even further down on the list when the playing time is handed out. Let's develop the guys we have and see what happens.


BackwoodsBum,

I understand what you're saying, but the fact of the matter is that we have no present. Even if we make the playoffs, it won't mean much because we play in a bad division in a bad conference. That was Danny's whole point in blowing up the old team assembled by Pitino/Wallace. So he should follow through with that mindset instead of thinking that he can win with the current team. He should clear up some cap space and draft high -- which means losing just a bit more than we currently do.
I don't know if you guys saw tonight's SportsCenter, but they showed clips of Greg Oden, the high school manchild center who will be entering Ohio St. next year. He reminds me of Lebron in that he's physically mature beyond his years and moves very well for his size. Whichever team gets him will be a dominant force for years. It would be nice if the Celts could get rid of stiffs like LaFrentz, Blount, and an impatient Pierce, and start losing just a bit more to get this kid.


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## KingHandles (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: Celtics 2006 Draft (Beta Dec 2005) (Merged)*

I get what you mean, and I would agree with you if I didn't disagree with you main point. Pierce is great, he is a great leader. Last year his emotions got the best and I'm sure he will not crack this year. From here on out, I belive Pierce will stay how he is right now. His leadership will grow as his age does. If Pierce wasn't so good, I would agree with you wholeheartedly.


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## cgcatsfan (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: Celtics 2006 Draft (Beta Dec 2005) (Merged)*



KingHandles said:


> I get what you mean, and I would agree with you if I didn't disagree with you main point. Pierce is great, he is a great leader. Last year his emotions got the best and I'm sure he will not crack this year. From here on out, I belive Pierce will stay how he is right now. His leadership will grow as his age does. If Pierce wasn't so good, I would agree with you wholeheartedly.


There is a definite sense of purpose about Pierce this year specifically about being a leader. 
I agree that he will not crack again.


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## andy787 (Jun 9, 2003)

*Look at the Hawks, they're soaring*

wow, look at the hawks, they're soaring.

it's a big eye opener to see them soar. unbeleivable.

I wish our players have the same attitude as the hawks. They're no sissies. undaunted by the opposition. making do with what they have.

compare our line up with theirs and i'm sure our line up is better on paper. much much better. But what we dont have is attitude. we definitely are playing sissy basketball out there.

I hope players on our team read this. so they'll know what they are. "Sissy". or maybe the coach gets the blame for this stupor. As many have said, either you have it or you dont.

I'm so frustrated with this team. maybe it will be better to blow up the team and guarantee a lottery.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: wow, look at the hawks, they're soaring*

The Hawks have a real coach.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Look at the Hawks, they're soaring*

2006 isn't worth tanking for. Play out the string and trade Pierce in the offseason if you want to tank, because 2007 is a much deeper draft.


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## cgcatsfan (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: Look at the Hawks, they're soaring*

We need a coach that understands subsitution patterns, not more rookies. 
Unless one of them is the second coming of MJ, Jabbar, or Bird


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Look at the Hawks, they're soaring*



ehmunro said:


> 2006 isn't worth tanking for. Play out the string and trade Pierce in the offseason if you want to tank, because 2007 is a much deeper draft.


Also, the Celtics could very well have two picks in the '07 draft as long as either LA or Boston make the playoffs this season (and the '06 pick going to Phoenix). If Pierce is traded and Boston is forced to have Ricky Davis as their number one option, Durant or Oden as the Cetlic's cornerstone would be plausible (obviously you hope for Oden with Perkins than moving to power forward to force Jefferson to work hard).

Since we didn't get Tim Duncan, I think we deserve the next best thing.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Look at the Hawks, they're soaring*



Premier said:


> Also, the Celtics could very well have two picks in the '07 draft as long as either LA or Boston make the playoffs this season (and the '06 pick going to Phoenix). If Pierce is traded and Boston is forced to have Ricky Davis as their number one option, Durant or Oden as the Cetlic's cornerstone would be plausible (obviously you hope for Oden with Perkins than moving to power forward to force Jefferson to work hard).
> 
> Since we didn't get Tim Duncan, I think we deserve the next best thing.



We'll have 2 picks in 2007 no matter what.

Celtics 1st rounder or
Lakers 1st rounder
and
Cavs 1st rounder


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## Floods (Oct 25, 2005)

*Re: Look at the Hawks, they're soaring*



Premier said:


> Also, the Celtics could very well have two picks in the '07 draft as long as either LA or Boston make the playoffs this season (and the '06 pick going to Phoenix). If Pierce is traded and Boston is forced to have Ricky Davis as their number one option, Durant or Oden as the Cetlic's cornerstone would be plausible (obviously you hope for Oden with Perkins than moving to power forward to force Jefferson to work hard).
> 
> Since we didn't get Tim Duncan, I think we deserve the next best thing.


Durant?


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Look at the Hawks, they're soaring*

Kevin Durant.

To quote an ESPN mag article about Artest a few years back, "He's Scary Good"

Link to a draft profile of Durant.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Look at the Hawks, they're soaring*



aquaitious said:


> We'll have 2 picks in 2007 no matter what.
> 
> Celtics 1st rounder or
> Lakers 1st rounder
> ...


Yes.

The Suns will most likely get the Lakers pick this draft via Atlanta via Boston.

The Celtics will then have one first-round selection in the '06 draft (their own; #10-#14).

The Celtics will have the Cleveland selection in '07 (#20-#26) and their own (# who knows?).

In the best case scenario, the Lakers finish with the tenth worst record this season and Boston also misses the playoffs. Then, the Cavaliers pick would go to Phoenix with Boston having two *high* first-rounders in '07 (top-heavy _and _deep draft).


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Look at the Hawks, they're soaring*



Premier said:


> Durant or Oden as the Cetlic's cornerstone would be plausible (obviously you hope for Oden with Perkins than moving to power forward to force Jefferson to work hard).


Actually, with Oden in hand you use Jefferson and Perkins to acquire Chris Bosh+ from Toronto and let your opponents panic.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

*Re: Look at the Hawks, they're soaring*



andy787 said:


> wow, look at the hawks, they're soaring.
> 
> it's a big eye opener to see them soar. unbeleivable.
> 
> ...


The Hawks are 6-18. "Soaring" is a bit of a stretch.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Look at the Hawks, they're soaring*



Causeway said:


> The Hawks are 6-18. "Soaring" is a bit of a stretch.



They've had at least two amazing wins vs championship teams.

Other than that, they've been quiet.


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## Rebounders_Rule! (Aug 18, 2005)

*Re: Look at the Hawks, they're soaring*



ehmunro said:


> Actually, with Oden in hand you use Jefferson and Perkins to acquire Chris Bosh+ from Toronto and let your opponents panic.


Jefferson and Perkins *both* for Bosh? You have got to be kidding. 

Seriously, unless Oden is the second coming of Larry Bird (which I doubt) demoting Mark "Fumbles" Blount to garbage-time-only duty and thereby getting the youngsters we've already have some more playoff experience would benefit us more than him or anyone we might get by tanking the season. 

BTW, despite this little bit of a hot streak the Hawks have had lately they're still 6-18, which is not my idea of "soaring".


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Look at the Hawks, they're soaring*



Rebounders_Rule! said:


> Jefferson and Perkins *both* for Bosh? You have got to be kidding.


Did you miss the plus sign? I guess so.



Rebounders_Rule! said:


> Seriously, unless Oden is the second coming of Larry Bird (which I doubt) demoting Mark "Fumbles" Blount to garbage-time-only duty and thereby getting the youngsters we've already have some more playoff experience would benefit us more than him or anyone we might get by tanking the season.


If Oden _were_ like Larry Bird, then you would _want_ to match him up with Jefferson or Perkins (because Bird was a perimeter 4). However, what Oden is is a low post player that will (barring injury) be better than either Jefferson or Perkins. So, _if_ you are fortunate enough to draft a dominant low post force, you look for a 4 that can draw a post defender out of the paint. This is why Jefferson and Perkins struggle when they're on the court together. Perk's man invariably gets the doubleteam on Al immediately (because he's right there). This is why they get matched up with Blount and Raef (so that Al gets breathing room to get a shot off before the doubleteam comes). So, yes, if you get Oden you most certainly look to move your extraneous low post players for someone that can get Oden single coverage in the paint.


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## Rebounders_Rule! (Aug 18, 2005)

*Re: Look at the Hawks, they're soaring*



ehmunro said:


> Did you miss the plus sign? I guess so.


 Okay, how many of their other players would you want them to include in your proposed trade? And how many of them do you think the Raptors would actually be willing to include in it? 



ehmunro said:


> If Oden _were_ like Larry Bird, then you would _want_ to match him up with Jefferson or Perkins (because Bird was a perimeter 4).


 What part of my post implied that Oden actually was Larry Bird Redux? My point hinged on the rather high probability that he *isn't* actuall that good. 



ehmunro said:


> However, what Oden is is a low post player that will (barring injury) be better than either Jefferson or Perkins.


 Maybe, but with all due respect I'm not going to just take your word for that. Sorry. Nor am I going to hope that the Celtics base any of their future plans on any such assumption.


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

*Re: Look at the Hawks, they're soaring*



Rebounders_Rule! said:


> Okay, how many of their other players would you want them to include in your proposed trade? And how many of them do you think the Raptors would actually be willing to include in it?


If the Raptors are uncooperative then look elsewhere for your perimeter 4.



Rebounders_Rule! said:


> What part of my post implied that Oden actually was Larry Bird Redux? My point hinged on the rather high probability that he *isn't* actuall that good.


He isn't anything like Bird whatsoever. If he were a perimeter player, you'd want to match Oden up with Jefferson. However Oden is a 7' 250lb low post load that's already more athletic than Jefferson. If Boston were drafting second or third in 2007 and ended up with Durant, well that's a case of a player that meshes well with Jefferson.



Rebounders_Rule! said:


> Maybe, but with all due respect I'm not going to just take your word for that. Sorry. Nor am I going to hope that the Celtics base any of their future plans on any such assumption.


Yeah, you might try using the power of the google there, Sparky.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Look at the Hawks, they're soaring*

The Raptors won't give up Chris Bosh for Al and Perk now, and the most certainly won't do it later.


EDIT: Oh...we're on the 2nd page already. Oh well.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Look at the Hawks, they're soaring*



Rebounders_Rule! said:


> Maybe, but with all due respect I'm not going to just take your word for that. Sorry. Nor am I going to hope that the Celtics base any of their future plans on any such assumption.


When scouts compare you to Bill Russell regularly and when every fan of basketball knows you're name since you were a sophmore in high school, it is clear that Oden is going to be great. Did you see his recent ESPN game? Nine blocks. He completely dominated on both ends against top competition.

Right now, he's a can't miss prospect. He's a safer pick than Tim Duncan. He will have one year of college experience at Ohio State in a possible final four team (five of the best freshman for their starting lineup). Oden is a franchise saviour much like Tim Duncan and Shaquille O'Neal.


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## cgcatsfan (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: Look at the Hawks, they're soaring*

I agree. All indications are that Odom not only has the physical skills but the court smarts and savvy to be incredible. 
I look forward to watching him in the NBA for many years. 
The kid is down to earth, in one of several interviews I've read, he's all about building skill and not resting on his laurels. And if his attitude is anything like the interviewer portrayed, he's a coache's dream.


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## Causeway (May 18, 2005)

*Re: Look at the Hawks, they're soaring*



cgcatsfan said:


> I agree. All indications are that Odom not only has the physical skills but the court smarts and savvy to be incredible.
> I look forward to watching him in the NBA for many years.
> The kid is down to earth, in one of several interviews I've read, he's all about building skill and not resting on his laurels. And if his attitude is anything like the interviewer portrayed, he's a coache's dream.


Oden


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Look at the Hawks, they're soaring*

So, I think this is a more complete scenario list that I recently posted:
"1) The Lakers finish this season with a top ten ‘06 draft selection. The Celtics finish this season with a lottery ‘06 selection. The Lakers selection is top ten protected for the ‘06 draft so the Celtics would acquire their ‘07 protected first-round selection. The Celtics would retain their first-round selection as the Suns cannot acquire one of the Celtic-owned lottery selections until the ‘07 draft. The Suns would most likely end up with Cleveland or Los Angeles’ ‘07 selection (whichever team finished with a higher record; my money [figurative] is on Cleveland).

2) The Lakers finish this season with a eleven to fourteen ‘06 draft selection. The Celtics finish this season with a lottery ‘06 selection. The Celtics would acquire Los Angeles’ ‘06 first-round selection. The Celtics would retain their first-round selection as the Suns cannot acquire one of the Celtic-owned lottery selections until the ‘07 draft. The Suns would most likely end up with Cleveland ‘07 selection.

3) The Lakers finish this season with a non-lottery ‘06 draft selection. The Celtics finish this season with a lottery ‘06 selection. The Celtics would acquire Los Angeles’ ‘06 first-round selection and ship it off to Phoenix via Atlanta. The Celtics would retain their first-round selection. The Celtics would have their own first-round selection and Cleveland’s first-round selection in the ‘07 draft.

4) The Lakers finish this season with a top ten ‘06 draft selection. The Celtics finish this season with a non-lottery ‘06 selection. The Lakers selection is top ten protected for the ‘06 draft so the Celtics would acquire their ‘07 protected first-round selection. The Celtics would not retain their first-round selection as the Suns would acquire their ‘06 first-round selection as they did not finish in the lottery. The Celtics would have no first-round selections in the ‘06 draft.

This scenario is questionable. It depends on if the Celtics have a second-round draft selection in the ‘06 draft. The Celtics recieved two second-round selections from Miami (though they were not specified on) and they also recieved a ‘06 Phoenix second-round selection because of the Walter McCarty trade though I do not know the specifications of this pick either (and I’m merely trusting an unreliable draft site for this information). The larger problem is that Ainge traded one ‘06 second-round selection to New Orleans/Oklahoma City. With the revamped Los Angeles trade, the Celtics did not trade a ‘06 second-round selection to the Lakers though if I’m correct. If the Celtics do have a second-round selection in the ‘06 draft and the season falls under this scenario, then it is possible.

5) The Lakers finish this season with a eleven to fourteen ‘06 draft selection. The Celtics finish this season with a non-lottery ‘06 selection. The Celtics would acquire Los Angeles’ ‘06 first-round selection. The Celtics would not retain their first-round selection as the Suns acquire it (15-30). The Celtics end up with Los Angeles’ ‘06 first-round selection and Cleveland’s ‘07 first-round selection.

6) The Lakers finish this season with a non-lottery ‘06 draft selection. The Celtics finish this season with a non-lottery ‘06 selection. The Celtics would acquire Los Angeles’ ‘06 first-round selection and ship off the lesser of the two selections to Phoenix via Atlanta with the Celtics retaining the favorable first-round selection. The Celtics would have their own first-round selection and Cleveland’s first-round selection in the ‘07 draft.

Any comments, questions, objections, or notifications of mistakes are highly appreciated. After all, we are all Celtics fans."


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

*Re: Look at the Hawks, they're soaring*



Premier said:


> 4) The Lakers finish this season with a top ten ‘06 draft selection. The Celtics finish this season with a non-lottery ‘06 selection. The Lakers selection is top ten protected for the ‘06 draft so the Celtics would acquire their ‘07 protected first-round selection. The Celtics would not retain their first-round selection as the Suns would acquire their ‘06 first-round selection as they did not finish in the lottery. The Celtics would have no first-round selections in the ‘06 draft.
> 
> This scenario is questionable. It depends on if the Celtics have a second-round draft selection in the ‘06 draft. The Celtics recieved two second-round selections from Miami (though they were not specified on) and they also recieved a ‘06 Phoenix second-round selection because of the Walter McCarty trade though I do not know the specifications of this pick either (and I’m merely trusting an unreliable draft site for this information). The larger problem is that Ainge traded one ‘06 second-round selection to New Orleans/Oklahoma City. With the revamped Los Angeles trade, the Celtics did not trade a ‘06 second-round selection to the Lakers though if I’m correct. If the Celtics do have a second-round selection in the ‘06 draft and the season falls under this scenario, then it is possible.


Few things: 

The "Phoenix 2nd rounder" is actually Golden States 2nd rounder. It's top 10 (so top 40) protected, I believe.

I also don't think that the Celtics will be left without a 1st rounder in any year. I think the pick that got traded to Atlanta was under the condition that Boston has at least 2 first rounders...


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

Correct. Boston must have two selections for the pick to be conveyed. The Golden State second rounder was top 40 protected last year, so it's available this year (hoorah). Boston traded the Miami Heat's second rounder to the Hornets, so they have second rounders coming from Golden State and Memphis (I believe) in addition to their own. All in the weakest draft since 2000.

I believe it's still Hornets. (Hilarious though). -aqua


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

ehmunro said:


> Correct. Boston must have two selections for the pick to be conveyed. The Golden State second rounder was top 40 protected last year, so it's available this year (hoorah). Boston traded the Miami Heat's second rounder to the Hornets, so they have second rounders coming from Golden State and Memphis (I believe) in addition to their own. All in the weakest draft since 2000.


I believe the Warriors' 2nd rounder was top 43 protected last year and top 10 this year.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

We will end up with OJ Mayo :biggrin:


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

In '08?

No...we won't.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Premier said:


> In '08?
> 
> No...we won't.



If we're in the lottery in 2008, I think it's safe to say this "rebuilding" is a failure.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Premier said:


> In '08?
> 
> No...we won't.


I was saying that to show how e are going to be auful for years to come


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## TONYALLEN42 (Jan 24, 2005)

*Re: woe are the celtics*

i want JJ Redick on our team sooooo bad!!!!!!! JJ in green uh oh!!


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## KingHandles (Mar 19, 2005)

aquaitious said:


> If we're in the lottery in 2008, I think it's safe to say this "rebuilding" is a failure.


Haha, yeah that is a safe assumption.

JJ Redick? We have enough guards as is...


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

I certainly do not want a spot-up shooter like Morrison or Redick on my team if we are in the lottery. There are much better projected role-players to chose from.


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

Premier said:


> I certainly do not want a spot-up shooter like Morrison or Redick on my team if we are in the lottery. There are much better projected role-players to chose from.


Morrison is Pete Maravich in the making


Just because he is white and leads the NCAA in scoring


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

besides we will end up with one of them, they are white


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

DWest Superstar said:


> Morrison is Pete Maravich in the making




morrison is keith van horn in the making


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

#1AntoineWalkerFan said:


> morrison is keith van horn in the making


Morrison is not a 6'10 SF. Jiri Welsch would of been better.


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## LX (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: woe are the celtics*



TONYALLEN42 said:


> i want JJ Redick on our team sooooo bad!!!!!!! JJ in green uh oh!!


Why the heck would you want J.J. Redick?


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## DWest Superstar (Jun 30, 2005)

*Re: woe are the celtics*



Lanteri said:


> Why the heck would you want J.J. Redick?


Because he is white and went to Duke. And can shoot 3's.


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## FatMike58 (May 11, 2005)

Reddick sucks....


Draft Rondo :biggrin:


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

DWest Superstar said:


> Morrison is not a 6'10 SF. Jiri Welsch would of been better.



im not saying they r the same type of player...im comparing them because kvh was touted as "the next bird" also and look what happened with him


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Reality Check

The Celtics are the eighth worst team in the league right now. Of the seven teams worse than the Celtics right now, three of those teams have a good chance of finishing with a better record than Boston. Portland has won three straight. Toronto is on fire (7-3 in their last ten) and New York is also doing well (6-4 in their last ten). This could mean that the Celtics would finish with the fifth worst record in the league meaning they would have a good percentage of lottery balls. Regardless, they would end up with around the fifth pick (especially if Pierce is traded which would mean that Boston would end up with a third or higher selection in the '06 draft).

This means that Boston has a chance at drafting some decent prospects such as Rudy Gay, Andrea Bargani, Tiago Splitter, LaMarcus Aldridge, Ronnie Brewer, or Adam Morrison (hopefully Ainge doesn't draft Morrison if given the selection; or atleast let him trade Morrison while his value is as high as it will ever be).

I believe Los Angeles' selection would go to Phoenix. The Celtics would acquire Cleveland's '07 selection. This puts Boston in a good position to move up to atleast the top eight.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Premier said:


> Reality Check
> 
> The Celtics are the eighth worst team in the league right now. Of the seven teams worse than the Celtics right now, three of those teams have a good chance of finishing with a better record than Boston. Portland has won three straight. Toronto is on fire (7-3 in their last ten) and New York is also doing well (6-4 in their last ten). This could mean that the Celtics would finish with the fifth worst record in the league meaning they would have a good percentage of lottery balls. Regardless, they would end up with around the fifth pick (especially if Pierce is traded which would mean that Boston would end up with a third or higher selection in the '06 draft).
> 
> ...


A possible scenario is to trade the 06 1st rounder for a 07 1st rounder...there's gotta be somebody desperate enough.


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

No.

If we get a top six '06 first there is no point in trading it away unless we're guaranteed Oden in the following year (well, a "fella" could dream...).


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Premier said:


> No.
> 
> If we get a top six '06 first there is no point in trading it away unless we're guaranteed Oden in the following year (well, a "fella" could dream...).


Do we honestly need another pick? It retards the growth of everyone. Of the new guy, of the other youngsters...


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## Premier (Oct 30, 2003)

Why wouldn't we want a better young guy than what we already have?


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## E.H. Munro (Jun 22, 2004)

DWest Superstar said:


> Morrison is Pete Maravich in the making.


If by that statement you mean "He's a honky that couldn't defend deficit spending to a room full of politicians," then I agree. If you mean that he's going to light up the NBA with his dynamic offense, well, in that case you're clearly insane.



DWest Superstar said:


> Jiri Welsch would of been better.


I'm not that high on Morrison, but it's a little early to be calling the biggest scrub in the NBA better. :bsmile:


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## agoo (Jun 1, 2003)

Stock piling draft picks is delightful and all but there comes a time when you need to wonder what the hell we're going to do with all of these guys.

I think Danny is sold on Jefferson, Green and West as the future at PF, SG, and PG. Pierce is here to stay, in my opinion at least, at SF. Perk looks like a solid choice at center, but as was stated before, he does nothing to take double teams away from Jefferson on the block. For backups, we have Orien Greene at PG, Tony Allen at SG, and Ryan Gomes at SF. I think it would be best if we used our picks to deal for experienced, solid, defensive players at center and powerforward. The reported potential of Jefferson and Green make me think that they could be 25 point a night guys and both should have the potential to go off for 40+ on any given night. Pierce should be a 20+ scorer for a long time and West should remain at a solid 15 a night (those would be if they weren't all sharing a ball of course). Ryan Gomes and Ricky Davis (who also is far from old) could provide bench scoring while Allen would continue to be a harassing defender. I could easily see Perkins as our backup center for the future because of his rebounding and defense, but he can't start with Jefferson unless he develops Blount's jumper, which seems very, very unlikely.

To sum up, trade the picks! Please trade the picks! Unless Greg Oden or some other can't-miss guy is coming to the green.


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