# How long do you think it shold take ?



## LA68 (Apr 3, 2004)

I wonder, New York should be a premier franchise in the league. You all talk about MSG as the ultimate place to watch a game. I want to know if it is true that you New York fans have no patience:

1. How long do you think it will take to get them to championship level ?

2. What would you be willing to do to get there ?

The current course will take years. You won't be able to trade H20 , Anderson or Penny because they are broken down and too expensive. You won't be able to buy them out either. And with the cap going down this year, you have even less room under the cap. 

You may be stuck with this same team for years :sigh: 

O.K. without the impossible trades that will never happen or playing that "he's from NY" game that never works, what would you do ?

I would give as many players away for free and go to the bottom like Denver did. Then build a correct team in the style that Knick fans expect. What are your ideas ?


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

Nice, but it will never happen, Dolan wont allow it. He expects playoffs, and if being mediocre prevents the Knicks from being great, so be it. Made the finals that once against the Spurs in a strike-shortened season in which they got lucky as a bottom seed. Other than that, this year will be typical. This is written really bad but it's 3:15 and I'm tired so goodnight.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>LA68</b>!
> I wonder, New York should be a premier franchise in the league. You all talk about MSG as the ultimate place to watch a game. I want to know if it is true that you New York fans have no patience:
> 
> 1. How long do you think it will take to get them to championship level ?
> ...


It takes as long as it takes for Dolan to have an awakening or an accident.

I am willing to persuade him if he would just take my calls.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

crap


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

it will never happen unless we have the three ghosts of christmas visit Dolan. Hes a greedy man. He'll take 4 playoff games instead of a championship banner. The banner costs him money, the extra games make him money.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

The Knicks won't become great until Houston/Penny/Shandon/Dikembe are gone. We have another 3 years of mediocrity awaiting.

I do know this. The Knicks damn well better not trade Allen Houston at the end of his deal just to get a player for him. Let his albatross of a salary expire and let him walk. Cap space in NYC is like 1 million dollars at Scores. It can go a long way.


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## Ubonics (Jul 12, 2002)

NYK can never totally tear down their team like the Nuggs. They Haven't had a truely horrible season since after King went down in the mid 80's and then they grabbed Ewing.

But they could just never do it. People would go crazy. They were going crazy enough under Layden. They made a start they had to, they were in more mediocricy before the Marbury deal anyway.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> They made a start they had to, they were in more mediocricy before the Marbury deal anyway.


True.....I dont see wht everyone is so negative...We had two coaches,2 gms,our best player injured, and who knows how many trades and we made the playoffs..And yes it was the worlds worst conference,but it was great experience...

A healthy H20 teamed with marbury is an elite backcourt..Sweets with a full 6 months of conditioning should be a terror.Tim Thomas is the wild card...The guy has all the tools in the world,and he did play decently,but not up to his talent level...

The middle....Baker when he is sober and in shape is our best option...Ill sign anybody for any amount for 2 years or until H20,s contract runs out..Until then,I just hope we are competitive


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

NO CENTER = NO SHOT VS. THE WEST!!! I DON'T GIVE A FLYING **** HOW WELL WE CAN FARE IN THE EAST! NOBODY GIVES A **** HOW WELL THEY FARE IN THE EAST! IT'S LIKE SAYING YOU CAN WIN THE IVY CONFERENCE IN NCAA BASKETBALL, IT DOESN'T MATTER! I WANT THE ****ING CHAMPIONSHIP AND DIKEMBE AND MOHAMMAD AND BAKER AREN'T GOING TO GET US THAT!
:upset:


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

Just how many elite, or even viable, centers are there in the league? Seriously, after Shaq and Yao you're already into power forwards posing as centers, guys who some suspect to be one year wonders, guys who will make an impact but certainly don't guarantee the promised land, or youngin's who's impact are unknown quantities. 

Just who do you expect us, or any eastern team for that matter, to get that will take us to the promised land?


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## THE COOKIE MONSTER (Apr 27, 2004)

TIM DUNCAN DOES NOT COUNT AS A CENTER? SPURS ALSO HAVE RASHA NESTVOVIC

JERMAINE ONEAL IS ALSO JEFF FOSTERS BACKUP HE SLIDES TO CENTER WHEN AL HARRINGTON COMES IN FOR FOSTER.

BRAD MILLER WAS AN ALLSTAR THIS YEAR AND LAST YEAR AND THE KINGS ALSO HAVE THE BEST PASSING CENTER VLADE DIVAC.

BEN WALLACE IS ANOTHER ALLSTAR CENTER HE IS TWO TIME DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF YEAR.

KEVIN GARNETT COULD PLAY ANY POSITION IN THE LEAGUE AND HE HAS THE HELP DEFENSE OF A CENTER.

THE NETS AND HEAT HAVE JASON COLLINS AND BRIAN GRANT THAT IS A BIG REASON WHY THEY WERE NOT EXPECTED TO GO TO THE CONFERENCE FINALS.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>THE COOKIE MONSTER</b>!
> TIM DUNCAN DOES NOT COUNT AS A CENTER? SPURS ALSO HAVE RASHA NESTVOVIC
> 
> JERMAINE ONEAL IS ALSO JEFF FOSTERS BACKUP HE SLIDES TO CENTER WHEN AL HARRINGTON COMES IN FOR FOSTER.
> ...



So you've cited some PFs doing an admirable job playing center in a league bereft of true centers. What's your point? The better one's are nowhere near obtainable, and most of the ones who people are pining for us to bring in this off-season are coming from lousy teams -- they hardly delivered their teams a championship, and would hardly be expected to do so here.

That's not to say I don't hope we land a good one, but it's just part of becoming a balanced team. I hope we can upgrade at any and all positions.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> I WANT THE ****ING CHAMPIONSHIP AND DIKEMBE AND MOHAMMAD AND BAKER AREN'T GOING TO GET US THAT!


Then you better click your heels 3 times and head on back to kansas cause we are NOT getting a monster in the middle any time soon..And all of a sudden, making it to the finals isnt good enough???


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Cookie,not one of those guys you metioned is a starting center with the exception of Ben Wallace....


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## dcrono3 (Jan 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>truth</b>!
> Cookie,not one of those guys you metioned is a starting center with the exception of Ben Wallace....



True, and not only that you can argue that Ben Wallace is not really a true "center," if only because of his height. He is listed as 6'9 but probably only aruond 6'7 or 6'8. He plays like a center and is truely an exception, kind of like how Barkley was a 6'4 PF.


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## THE COOKIE MONSTER (Apr 27, 2004)

WHY IS TIM DUNCAN NOT A CENTER THE ONLY REASON HE'S NOT A CENTER IS BECAUSE HIS TEAM ALWAYS STARST ANOTHER CENTER NEXT TO HIM.

AND HOW IS BRAD MILLER NOT A REAL CENTER HE MADE THE ALLSTAR TEAM IN THE WEST WHERE THERE ARE SOME GOOD CENTERS.

AND WHO CARES HOW TALL BEN WALLACE IS IF HE PLAYS LIKE A CENTER. CHARLES BARKLY WAS 6 FOOT 4 AND HE PLAYED LIKE A POWER FORWARD. THE KNICKS OLD PLAYER LARRY JOHNSON WAS ONLY 6 FOOT 6 AND HE PLAYED LIKE A POWER FORWARD ALSO. AND DENNIS RODMAN IS THE BEST REBOUNDER EVER AND HE WAS THE SAME HEIGHT. RODMAN IS THE REASON THE BULLS WERE ABLE TO WIN WITH BAD CENTERS BECAUSE HE GRABBED ENOUGH REBOUNDS FOR 2 PEOLLPE. WALLACE IS LIKE RODMAN BUT TALLER AND BETTER AT BLOCKING SHOTS SO HWO COME HES NOT A CENTER. RASHEED WALLACE IS TALLER BUT HES NOT PLAYING CENTER MAYBE THERES A REASON.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>THE COOKIE MONSTER</b>!
> WHY IS TIM DUNCAN NOT A CENTER THE ONLY REASON HE'S NOT A CENTER IS BECAUSE HIS TEAM ALWAYS STARST ANOTHER CENTER NEXT TO HIM.
> 
> AND HOW IS BRAD MILLER NOT A REAL CENTER HE MADE THE ALLSTAR TEAM IN THE WEST WHERE THERE ARE SOME GOOD CENTERS.
> ...


Okay, so anyone who played center is a center? So Walker, Dirk, KT, Magic, etc are all centers because they played the position? And weren't you the one who decided Nazr wasn't a real center because he's only 6'10"? 

A real center isn't the person on the team who plays center the best, or the guy who's 7' and can rebound. It's the guy who plays the center position better than any other position, and plays it well.

However you may choose to answer these questions, please look also at the context in which this discussion came up. The statement was made that we wont win a championship until we get a real center. Who do you suppose the available real centers are: Shaq, Yoa, Wallace, Duncan, and Brad Miller? I don't think so.

And besides, look at Yoa's team, and Damps team, and Duncans, and Brad Millers... they ain't winning it, and unless the Lakers win it all this year, no true center will. Sometimes the best player in the league wins it, not the best center.


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## dcrono3 (Jan 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>son of oakley</b>!
> 
> 
> Okay, so anyone who played center is a center? So Walker, Dirk, KT, Magic, etc are all centers because they played the position? And weren't you the one who decided Nazr wasn't a real center because he's only 6'10"?
> ...


Agree with Oak. It is pretty obvious that none of the "pure" centers are going to be available to anyone, let alone ourselves. We have to take what we can get. Unless we draft one we will never get a "true" center.


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## THE COOKIE MONSTER (Apr 27, 2004)

WHEN DID I SAY NAZR IS NOT A CENTER BECAUSE HE'S 6'10. SON OF OAKLEY JUST WANTS TO MAKE STUFF UP ABOUT ME.


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## THE COOKIE MONSTER (Apr 27, 2004)

AND DAMPIER AND YAOS TEAMS ARE LOTTERY TEAMS. HELLO. YOU CANT PUT ONE PLAYER AROUND A BUNCH OF SCRUBS AND HAVE THEM TURN THE TEAM INTO ALLSTARS JUST BECAUSE YOURE A CENTER. YAO IS GETTING BETTER EVERYYEAR AND HE IS EXPECTED TO DELIVER A CHAMPIONSHIP TO HOSTON DURING HIS CAREER BUT ITS HARD TO WIN WHEN THE BEST GUYS ON YOUR TEAM AFTER YOUR STARTING LINEUP IS STEVE FRANCIS CUTTINO MOBLEY JIM JACKSON AND KELVIN CATO AND YOUR BENCH SUCKS. THEY WERE IN THE LOTTERY 2 YEARS AGO AND YOU AREC OMPLAINING BECAUSE THEY LOST TO SHAQ AND THE LAKERS IN THE FIRST ROUN YOU MAKE NO SENSE. THE WARRIORS WOULD HAVE BEEN THE WORST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE IF IT WASNT FOR DAMPIER HOW COME ITS HIS FAULT THAT SPEEDY CLAXTON WAS THE STARTING POINT GUARD ON THE WARIORS.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

You don't get my point Cookie, I don't get yours, and I'm tired of being shouted at by you. Whatever.


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

Yeah that caps lock thing is annoying.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

> You don't get my point Cookie, I don't get yours, and I'm tired of being shouted at by you. Whatever.


LOL...just like old times....:no:


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## dcrono3 (Jan 6, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>THE COOKIE MONSTER</b>!
> AND DAMPIER AND YAOS TEAMS ARE LOTTERY TEAMS. HELLO. YOU CANT PUT ONE PLAYER AROUND A BUNCH OF SCRUBS AND HAVE THEM TURN THE TEAM INTO ALLSTARS JUST BECAUSE YOURE A CENTER. YAO IS GETTING BETTER EVERYYEAR AND HE IS EXPECTED TO DELIVER A CHAMPIONSHIP TO HOSTON DURING HIS CAREER BUT ITS HARD TO WIN WHEN THE BEST GUYS ON YOUR TEAM AFTER YOUR STARTING LINEUP IS STEVE FRANCIS CUTTINO MOBLEY JIM JACKSON AND KELVIN CATO AND YOUR BENCH SUCKS. THEY WERE IN THE LOTTERY 2 YEARS AGO AND YOU AREC OMPLAINING BECAUSE THEY LOST TO SHAQ AND THE LAKERS IN THE FIRST ROUN YOU MAKE NO SENSE. THE WARRIORS WOULD HAVE BEEN THE WORST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE IF IT WASNT FOR DAMPIER HOW COME ITS HIS FAULT THAT SPEEDY CLAXTON WAS THE STARTING POINT GUARD ON THE WARIORS.


First, I agree that the Cap lcok thing is really annoying if only because it makes your writing hard to read. I concede that you have your right to write in cap but I am warning you COOKIE that it will hinder others from seeing your points. 

Second, how in the world could you say that Houston has no good players besides Yao? Come on, Francis is onwe of the best players in the NBA IMO. Granted he shoots a low percentage and is turnover prone, but there is not a single team in the league who wouldn't want Francis on their team. Jackson isn't who he once was but played decent ball this season, and Mobley, while not a great player, is decent also. Calling Francis a scrub a is a pretty dumb thing to say. Also, during the mini-Lakers Dynasty just a few years before, which Laker was a good player besides Shaq and Kobe? Horry? Compareable to Mobley and Jackson. The Lakers ran a two man team, no reason why the Rockets can't do it with Yao and Francis. 

Last, how in the world did we even get here? I mean, COOKIE, you were talknig about how you just wanted a real center to match up with the West and win a championship. Ok, does it look like we can get a true center in NY? No, so why does it matter how Yao and Dampier are doing for their team?


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>dcrono3</b>!
> 
> Last, how in the world did we even get here? I mean, COOKIE, you were talknig about how you just wanted a real center to match up with the West and win a championship. Ok, does it look like we can get a true center in NY? No, so why does it matter how Yao and Dampier are doing for their team?


The funny thing is, it wasn't even Cookie who insisted we must have a real center, it was someone else who had their caps lock on.

Cookie, in doing one of his better Rashidi imitations, just decided to to snipe at one of the mooter aspects of my post. I made the foolish mistake of questioning who the "real" centers are other than Shaq and Yao, who is available, and who could put us over the top against the west. 

Coookie/Rashidi came back screaming (as he always does) that Brad Miller, Jermaine O'Neal, Tim Duncan, Ben Wallace, and Kevin Garnett are ALL "true" centers... AND presumably all available to us too, I guess.

Thanks for setting the record straight, cookie!


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