# Clippers eyeing Davis?



## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=insidedishclipperscouldb&prov=tsn&type=lgns

Very interesting read.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Well I think Baron is the kind of player we need.

Kittles, Wilcox, and Jaric should get a deal done.

I love Wilcox, and hate to give up on him, but let's be real, Baron makes us a playoff team instantly.

He's only 25, and we'd have him, Brand, and Mags, all all-star talents, locked up and they're years from their primes.

Make it happen Dunleavy.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

L.A. Clippers trades: SG Kerry Kittles (5.6 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 2.4 apg in 22.2 minutes)
PF Chris Wilcox	(11.6 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 1.0 apg in 26.7 minutes)
PG Marko Jaric	(11.3 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 6.4 apg in 35.2 minutes)
L.A. Clippers receives: PG Baron Davis	(24.6 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 8.0 apg in 37.0 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -3.9 ppg, -7.2 rpg, and -1.8 apg.

New Orleans trades: PG Baron Davis	(24.6 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 8.0 apg in 37.0 minutes)
New Orleans receives: SG Kerry Kittles	(5.6 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 2.4 apg in 22.2 minutes)
PF Chris Wilcox	(11.6 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 1.0 apg in 26.7 minutes)
PG Marko Jaric	(11.3 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 6.4 apg in 35.2 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +3.9 ppg, +7.2 rpg, and +1.8 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to New Orleans being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. New Orleans had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

There's your deal. It should happen, if the Clippers are serious about winning.


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## Geaux Tigers (Apr 26, 2004)

What would that mean for Livingston? Isnt he your PG of the future...

Throw Shaun in on that deal and Ill call Bristow and Shinn myself...I love Baron and Ill cheer for him wherever he goes but hes constantly injured and I think New Orleans needs more consistency...


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

I agree with you, arenas.
Aside from all the injuries that Baron has had I would still take the chance to get him. I think Kittles and Wilcox with be the bait, I don't think the Clippers will give up Jaric. He will be a good backup. Straight up salary-wise, Wilcox and Kittles will do the job but I bet the Hornets will be asking for more. The Clippers have been struggling with one major issue all year, TURNOVERS. A move like this could do great wonders for the team.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

PG: Baron Davis...Shaun Livingston...Rick Brunson...Lionel Chalmers
SG: Corey Maggette...Quinton Ross
SF: Bobby Simmons
PF: Elton Brand...Mikki Moore
C: Chris Kaman...Zeljko Rebraca

That would be quite a lineup.:yes:


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Jsimo12</b>!
> What would that mean for Livingston? Isnt he your PG of the future...
> 
> Throw Shaun in on that deal and Ill call Bristow and Shinn myself...I love Baron and Ill cheer for him wherever he goes but hes constantly injured and I think New Orleans needs more consistency...


Arenas and I discussed this and I don't think you should expect Livingston. The versatility of Shaun defensively (to guard 2's) and Maggette defensively (to guard 3's), plus Baron has shown he can defend the 2 as well (because of Wesley), the odds of getting Livingston are incredibly slim. Baron's days are numbered in New Orleans and if you're the Hornets, a pick included in that deal would make sense as well, cause Livingston isn't coming too.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Weasel</b>!
> I agree with you, arenas.
> Aside from all the injuries that Baron has had I would still take the chance to get him. I think Kittles and Wilcox with be the bait, I don't think the Clippers will give up Jaric. He will be a good backup. Straight up salary-wise, Wilcox and Kittles will do the job but I bet the Hornets will be asking for more. The Clippers have been struggling with one major issue all year, TURNOVERS. A move like this could do great wonders for the team.


You have to remember and I explained this to Arenas as well. You can't expect to keep Jaric as well. Giving Wilcox and an expiring contract (in Kittles) is not going to be enough. At least Jaric, he is restricted and New Orleans could re-sign him and make him their 3rd guard. Baron Davis is a multiple time All-star. You can't just give up nothing for him. This is no Vince Carter situation here. Baron plays through injuries. I actually feel the Hornets are keeping him out, so they can tank and they will be able to move him for at least something nice. Wilcox, Kittles contract and Jaric is a nice deal and you should be happy if it gets you Baron.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Wow, this would make the Clips very legit if Baron stays healthy when it matters. Good deal for NO too.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Hong Kong Fooey</b>!
> 
> 
> You have to remember and I explained this to Arenas as well. You can't expect to keep Jaric as well. Giving Wilcox and an expiring contract (in Kittles) is not going to be enough. At least Jaric, he is restricted and New Orleans could re-sign him and make him their 3rd guard. Baron Davis is a multiple time All-star. You can't just give up nothing for him. This is no Vince Carter situation here. Baron plays through injuries. I actually feel the Hornets are keeping him out, so they can tank and they will be able to move him for at least something nice. Wilcox, Kittles contract and Jaric is a nice deal and you should be happy if it gets you Baron.


I understand your point. I know its going to take a lot to get Baron over here. I just want the Clippers to make sure that have all their positions covered even their backups. Having Jaric in the deal is fine, I would still do the trade.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

They should have given up odom when they had the chance for him, and kept miles. This team would probably have been in the playoffs every year since then if they did that deal. however, BECAUSE of the miller disaster, i dont see them doing this deal, not to mention that they have 5 years invested in livingston. They would have a san diego chargers situation where they have a pretty young vet who needs to start (drew brees), but then a number 3 draft pick who has a contract over a few years (phillip rivers). 

Perhaps if livingston could play the 2, but hes not a good enough shooter for that yet.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Ummm... no. 

Livingston can run the 1 on offense and Baron can run the 2. When either one goes out, you could run the other at the point. It would work out fine. That's what happens when you have a versatile talent like Livingston. You couldn't make this move, if you didn't have a talent like him on the roster.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>yamaneko</b>!
> They should have given up odom when they had the chance for him, and kept miles. This team would probably have been in the playoffs every year since then if they did that deal. however, BECAUSE of the miller disaster, i dont see them doing this deal, not to mention that they have 5 years invested in livingston. They would have a san diego chargers situation where they have a pretty young vet who needs to start (drew brees), but then a number 3 draft pick who has a contract over a few years (phillip rivers).
> 
> Perhaps if livingston could play the 2, but hes not a good enough shooter for that yet.


Where is your head?

I seriously can't understand your thinking.

You openly advocate a ridiculous deal for Mike Softleavy but say no to acquiring Baron?


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Doesnt baron have a long contract making big bucks that would tie up the clippers for a few years? What if he doesnt pan out? It would be WORSE than the miller situation because with miller, at least they just cut their losses, and his contract expired, freeing up that money. But what if davis pulls a miller, and even though he is a great player for his team of many years, once he comes to the clippers, it doesnt pan out? What if livingston emerges into an incredible player? Will you make davis run the 2 on offense, not able to post up the defending 2, not able to shoot over them, etc.? 

If you trade kittles and wilcox, and jaric, or even without jaric, you need someone who can play the 2/3, not another 1. YOu dont want ross being the first guy off the bench at those positions. 

Its all besides the point though. I said that the clippers would not do this deal because of bad taste in their mouth of the miller deal, plus the fact that their PG of the future is signed for about as long as davis is, and they just traded down in the draft to get him with their pick. 

The dunleavvy deal i said would only be good IF IT WAS true that the coach wanted him on the team. If not, dont do it. If so, then you go into if it was doable. Then when you look at the versitilaty of him, his definately resigning with the cilppers, that deal made sense with the expiring small contracts of simmons and wilcox over the next couple of years.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

How you could not want Baron Davis is beyond me? Your reasoning doesn't make sense at all. 

They can still re-sign Simmons, Livingston is the backup PG next year, and they can fill in the gaps with some vets. You don't make the playoffs by constantly waiting for everyone to pan out. Your core of players would be locked in long term and are all 25 or younger. I mean, you think Davis is the Miller situation? How many times has Andre Miller been to an all-star game?


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

How does it not make sense? What i said was true...you get two young players who are locked into contracts for 5+ years, at the same position. How many teams have done that with a lot of success? Also, you cant say that the clippers wouldnt be wary doing that after the miller fiasco. The years before miller came to the clippers his numbers kept going up. first year, 11 points, 6 assists, 3 rebounds next year 16 points 8 assists, 4 rebounds, and the last year, 17 points, 11 assists, 5 rebounds. But as it turns out, he couldnt put up those kind of numbers on any team other than that cavs lineup. 

Davis is a great player. One of his only flaws would be his FG% which is around 40% every year. Hes never averaged assists like miller did before, nor the rebounds that miller did. Been with the same team there for a while. Am i saying that he couldnt suceed with the clippers? no. Am i saying theres no doubt he would tank like miller? No. But you have to admit that the cilppers would not consider this deal without even thinking about what happened with miller. Same thing again with the chargers this year. They came close to not getting a QB in this years draft, just because they were thinking about what happened with ryan leaf. As an owner, GM, bad situations stick out in your mind, and before you do it, you definately would consider those things. 

If sterling thinks that davis is the 'superstar" that he always has coveted, he might pull the trigger, and go for it. But i really think he wants a SG/SF, and would not do a deal like this with livingston on the team. It would be like orlando pulling a trade for brand when they have dwight howard.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

You need to wake up, I don't honestly see us signing a player of Baron's caliber, if you can acquire him in a trade and not lose any of your core, you do it.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

So if orlando could get brand would they do it? If charlotte coudl get brand, would they do it? Of course if they were just given him, but it would provide major minute problems as one of them would be forced to play out of position, and neither would come close to the out put that they are doing now. If brand was forced to play center, he would probably only be able to put up 12=15 points a game, and on defense would not do THAT well against some of the bigs. 

But, the other factor that those teams dont even have that the clippers do is taking a risk on a PG from los angeles, who has played his careeer on one team, when they had an exact same situation and it turned out terribly. 

Im not justifying them making a decision based on that if they do...however you all KNOW that they will think about it...


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

What are you talking about?

I'm saying if you can get an all-star player and not lose any of your core players, you do it.

It's not that complicated of an argument.

I am speaking in this specific case, I'm not talking about Charlotte, Orlando, whoever, this isn't the Charlotte board, and this is not a Magic scenario.

If the Clippers can get Baron Davis without giving up Shaun, Kaman, Mags, Brand, then I don't see how you can pass that up.

You keep acting like cap space does us good, it doesn't when you can't get players to sign with you, I don't care about being cap tied with 3 all-star players that are all in their mid 20s and years from the primes of their careers.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

So far yahoo news is the only source that I have seen that says anything about the Clippers being interested in Baron Davis. I don't know how real the situation is but the Clippers next game is against the Hornets.


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

B Dizzle is always hurt if he wasnt and didnt shot so many threes than I would want him not how he is now.


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## Tyrellaphonte (Feb 21, 2004)

This would make the Clipps so sick.

If They got him that would just add to their reputation of trackin down tight players


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## B Dizzle (Apr 3, 2004)

I would love to see my favourite player in a clippers uniform! Most of his teammates in New Orleans suck, and I think he would love to play in his hometown, being near his grandmother etc.


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## Kicito (Jun 3, 2003)

I don't think Kittles and Wilcox is enough to get Baron out of NO. You will have to give more, maybe something like Maggette + Wilcox for BD but i think it doesn't work salary-wise So maybe wou'll have to add Kittles and take Wesley, whose contract is over next summer.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kicito</b>!
> I don't think Kittles and Wilcox is enough to get Baron out of NO. You will have to give more, maybe something like Maggette + Wilcox for BD but i think it doesn't work salary-wise So maybe wou'll have to add Kittles and take Wesley, whose contract is over next summer.


That's not going to happen. Wilcox, Kittles and Jaric is enough, plus the pick. You give two young solid players (Jaric and Wilcox) to New Orleans and an expiring contract (Kittles) _and_ a pick for Baron Davis. That's fair.


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## Kicito (Jun 3, 2003)

My bad, i didn't see the Clippers were giving a draft pick. That's sound a fair deal to me but i still think the Hornets can get better than that.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kicito</b>!
> My bad, i didn't see the Clippers were giving a draft pick. That's sound a fair deal to me but i still think the Hornets can get better than that.


With Baron's contract, you have to remember that it's not as simple as just dealing him and getting back fair stuff. See the Clippers have some young players that make it attractive. Most teams that are winning that have talented young players aren't giving up Baron. You could come up with deals but this one makes the most sense. 

Wilcox has 20/10 potential (and has been getting good numbers while playing out of position this year) and Jaric is the perfect 3rd guard. Jaric also helps whatever team is trying to get Vladimir Radmanovic. The Hornets have a need for a SF, so Radman could come in there as well.


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## Kicito (Jun 3, 2003)

My problem with that deal is that basicaly, the Hornets are trading a proven top 5 PG for 2 unproven players who are showing some potential lately but if they don't develop the Hornets would be robbed baddly in that trade.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Kicito</b>!
> My problem with that deal is that basicaly, the Hornets are trading a proven top 5 PG for 2 unproven players who are showing some potential lately but if they don't develop the Hornets would be robbed baddly in that trade.


You're trading a malcontent PG (who doesn't want to be there anymore) who has been injured his last 3 years, although he plays through injuries. Wherever Baron is traded he's going to bounce back, but you're going to see once the Hornets make it known they are shopping him, that the deals for him are going to go way down. Teams will start trying to low ball the Hornets. They really can't keep him, because he doesn't even want to play there.


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## Giraldo (Sep 17, 2004)

Baron's value is a bit low right now because of the injuries. I think that this trade works for both teams. The Hornets are in a state of despair, I think that their only real option is rebuilding at this point. If they could get Wilcox Jaric Kittles, and a pick I think the deal is quite fair. 

Clippers become legit playoff contenders with a solid young core that can grow together. They have Livingston waiting in the wings to fill in at either guard spot. 

The Hornets get a solid young front line with Maglore and Wilcox, along with future cap flexibility when Kittles contract is up next year. Jaric is a solid if unspectacular player. A pick would be a nice bonus as well for a rebuilding team. Not sure if the Clipps would even have to give up the pick though.

I hope something like this goes down.


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## Kicito (Jun 3, 2003)

The Hornets surely won't get the better hand of the deal if they trade BD but that doesn't mean they're gona give him away the way the Raptors gave away Carter. They are not that despaired, BD respects Scott and he is the only reason why Scott is the coach of the Hornets, so clearly BD is not happy this season but he may be willing to give Scott a better chance than an injury plagged season. 

You have to remember that Baron Davis, Alex Garcia, Jamaal Magloire, Lee Nailon (just got back from injury), David West, George Lynch(playing injured), Rodney Rogers, Jamal Mashburn and Matt Freije ((playing injured) are out. That's 9 players out of the roster, 9 players ! Take any team and get 9 out of their players (including the 3 bests) and you got the Hornets situation and no matter how hard you try, you can't win in that situation.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

You feel that this is giving B Diddy away for nothing, but it isn't. Wilcox is an all-star cailber talent at PF (He won't make it, because he's in the West, but he's damn good). Kittles get that contract off the books and with PJ, Wesley and Lynch more than likely on the blocks, the Hornets are more than likely going to rebuild this thing the right way. At least with Jaric and Wilcox (plus the pick) they have something to look forward to. 

Like I said, not many teams have young players, who are already solid NBA players (like Jaric and Wilcox) and then the contracts. It's not easy trading Baron, because for as good as he is, if he wasn't hurt all the time with New Orleans he wouldn't be moved period.


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## Kicito (Jun 3, 2003)

If i could be sure that Wilcox will be a 20/10 (and i think he can), i would do the trade, but who knows if it will happen. Anyway it's a gamble the Hornets may have to take if there is no better offer, especially with all the good PGs in the next draft.


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## emplay (Jun 9, 2003)

Clippers start with a low offer

Kittles, Rebraca and Jaric

for 

Baron

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_10874.shtml

Hornets want Wilcox and a draft pick along with Jaric and Kittles.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>emplay</b>!
> Clippers start with a low offer
> 
> Kittles, Rebraca and Jaric
> ...


Thanks for the link.
So it seems that the Clippers really are trying to get Davis. I wouldn't be suprised if the Hornets reject the offer for Kittles, Rebraca and Jaric. I think it will be reasonable to offer Wilcox, Jaric, and Kittles. Do it!


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>emplay</b>!
> Clippers start with a low offer
> 
> Kittles, Rebraca and Jaric
> ...


Which is exactly the only deal I felt made any sense if you're the Hornets. However, with Baron, the Clippers would really look like a playoff team and giving the Hornets the pick that has already been optioned to the Nets, should they make the playoffs, means that they would have lost the pick anyway and the Hornets would have to wait in 2006 to get the pick. Makes sense for the Clippers.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Wow, I'd love to watch a Clippers starting lineup of Baron-Mag-Simmons-Brand-Kamen. Oy!


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

This deal makes a ton of sense, hell if you can do this and somehow keep Wilcox, this is highway robbery at it's best, but I'm a realist, I think Wilcox has to be in here for a deal to come to fruition, if that's the case, you do it and grab your all-star.

More proof folks that Dunleavy is the one running this organization, and that's why you are seeing a lot from the Clips that you are not used to seeing in the past.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

At this point, I'm expecting a deal.

New Orleans needs to start over, they'll send P.J. Brown to NJ and Baron to us.

I don't see this deal happening though until both Jaric and Kittles are healthy again.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

At this point, I'm expecting a deal.

New Orleans needs to start over, they'll send P.J. Brown to NJ and Baron to us.

I don't see this deal happening though until both Jaric and Kittles are healthy again.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> At this point, I'm expecting a deal.
> 
> New Orleans needs to start over, they'll send P.J. Brown to NJ and Baron to us.
> ...


Kittles' value for NO ends with his contract being a last year. NO just wants the cap space. Jaric, sure, he needs to be healthy. He's young and NO might want to resign him after his contract is up to fill in some of the void left by Baron. 

But actually, from what I'm hearing from Hoopsworld, this deal will be dead for a while because NO won't budge from their request for Wilcox. Until Wilcox is offered, I very much doubt this goes down in any capacity.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

If Wilcox isn't offered, then no deal is happening, however with him falling out of the rotation this is just postering by the Clippers. If the deal for Baron is done, the deal will be Wilcox, Kittles and Jaric for Baron and more than likely a future pick.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

If anyone knows what's going to work with this team, it's Dunleavy.

Kittles isn't giving us anything, Jaric is replaceable, and Wilcox right now is not even a part of the rotation.

For the Clips you have to get this deal done, because let's be honest, we're not going to sign a player of Baron's caliber in free agency.


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

That would be a big time move for the Clipps.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Natty Dreadlockz</b>!
> How old is Davis?


25 years old.


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## Natty Dreadlockz (Jul 21, 2003)

Sweet..


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## swift88 (Jul 4, 2004)

The owner got pissed at Baylor for not picking Baron, now we are after him. Jaric is a value that Clippers want to keep. I'm just scared that Baron injuries will slow him down, but he's a hustler plus he will bring confidence into the squat. Love him since his college years at bruins


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Injuries are a big concern with Baron, as is his work ethic. He's 25, so that may not be a problem for years, but you never know, especially since he's a point guard.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

> At this point, I'm expecting a deal.


Some of you guys are getting a little embarrasing. Youre "expecting" a deal "at this point?" This trade isnt even a real rumor yet, IMO. ESPN which posts 95% fake trades like this hasnt even thought it credible enough to mention. The papers in New Orelans nor los angeles have not even hinted at it, unless im missing something. 

Aside from the fact that its not even a legitimate rumor yet, the trade goes against recent logic. Sterling NEVER has traded for someone in history that has a HUGE contract that will last more than a couple of years, and i think barons is like 5+ years left. Remember, he doesnt like paying people who hasnt proven themselves with the clippers. The only time it was ever rumored that he actually did this (superstars like kobe not included), was with Arenas, and that was to sign him, not a trade, and if im not mistaken, it was very public that dunleavvy was the one who wanted him, and it was part of the agreement that if dunleavvy were to sign, the clippers went after him. Could be mistaken though. 

Clippers also have never made a trade for a player who is under contract, who plays the same position as their number one draft pick from the year. 

The only way i can see this trade happening for both teams is if livingston was in the deal. But again, this isnt even a rumor yet, so we shouldnt speculate anymore until we get more credibility to the story outside of "hoopsworld"


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>yamaneko</b>!
> The only way i can see this trade happening for both teams is if livingston was in the deal. But again, this isnt even a rumor yet, so we shouldnt speculate anymore until we get more credibility to the story outside of "hoopsworld"



Actually Yahoo was the first to mention anything about the Clippers being interested in Baron. I would though like to see ESPN comment on it.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

or a local newspaper (LA or NO)


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>yamaneko</b>!
> 
> 
> Some of you guys are getting a little embarrasing. Youre "expecting" a deal "at this point?"


Yes I'm expecting a deal, Dunleavy is tired of being in the lotto every year and we need a move to get us over the top, is it going to be this move?

Who knows, but I do EXPECT something to be done.

You're the last person to talk about embarrasing, you'll advocate a move where we get rid of Simmons and Wilcox for a role player like Dunleavy, and not be happy with getting an all-star without losing a piece of the core in the same breath.

The fact that you called yourself the most sensible poster on this Clips board is embarrasing, and let's not even get into that you actually suggested a Kittles for Artest trade.

Get a grip on your own nonsense before calling someone else "embarrasing".

Thanks.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Weasel</b>!
> 
> 
> Actually Yahoo was the first to mention anything about the Clippers being interested in Baron. I would though like to see ESPN comment on it.


Hey Weasel, Chad Ford talked about it today.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&id=1953714&CMP=ILC-INHEAD

It's an insider article though.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Arenas, do take a special kind of pill to be able to do this level of lame posts? Its an art, and you have mastered it. 



> Dunleavy is tired of being in the lotto every year and we need a move to get us over the top, is it going to be this move?


He has been in the lottery with this team one year. You make it sound like he has a history of the lottery with the clippers. 



> You're the last person to talk about embarrasing, you'll advocate a move where we get rid of Simmons and Wilcox for a role player like Dunleavy, and not be happy with getting an all-star without losing a piece of the core in the same breath.


You are the biggest hypocrite ever. You rave on and on about your consipricy theory that Dunleavvy is really the one calling the shots on the clippers, and you mock that trade? As i stated, the only way you do that deal is if dunleavvy really wanted his son to play for him, then you would have to consider any deal for it. So, if dunleavvy is calling the shots on the clippers, and he wants to play with his son, hes not going to pull the trigger on a deal for him? Even i dont think dunleavvy calls all the shots, but i pointed out that elgin and baylor would have to consider making that deal to appease the coach. No one is talking about being "happy" with getting an all star. WEre talking about logic. WEre talking about the odds of the clippers making that deal based on 30 years of history and posturing. Were talking about the factors that the clippers would have to consider before making that trade. Were talking the fact that its barely even a near serious rumor at this point.

Lets do get into the kittles for artest trade, I was able to present that in a very logical manner, and you were unable to say why it would not work given the variables that i had inputted. 

Youre just mad because you probably know how silly your posts sound, and your inability to put together factual information, and to properly dispute an issue. ALl of the scenarios i put are based not on internet rumors, speculation, or gut feeling. It is based on a series of possible variables, and on clippers history and fact. Anyone including you are invited to debate them with me, but if you do so, you need to do it on the basis of facts.

For the baron davis deal, dont talk like you "expect" this deal to go through, because you have no basis to say that. And, you still need to be able to refute what I have said as to things the clippers are going to consider before making this deal such as the miller situation, the fact that they have livingston for 5 years, the fact that davis is injury prone, the fact that the clippers have never traded for someone with a contract like that, the fact that they would be giving up jaric, and not getting someone who can play the 2 in return, etc. etc. Those are all valid facts. If you expect this deal to go through, then explain what you feel the clippers are going to reason on each of those points.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>yamaneko</b>!
> Arenas, do take a special kind of pill to be able to do this level of lame posts? Its an art, and you have mastered it.
> 
> 
> ...


Dude you can't read at all.

I said I expect something to be done, I didn't say that it wouldbe this Baron deal.

And Dunleavy doesn't have a history of the lottery with the Clips, the organization has that itself, the fans have that.

What does another year in the lotto do for us?

We need another kid that wants to be a star?

I mean come on, think a minute.

And I'm so glad you have these "analysis" down to a science, and that science you have is garbage, and I'm not the only one that has said so.

I mean lol, for you to even say how you explained kittles for artest logically is just flat out stupid, kittles for artest itself is ridiculous, so how can any "explanation" be logical?

And about the Dunleavy trade, ya Dunleavy wants his son to play for him, yet he didn't want the Golden State job because his son was there, so it makes sense that now he'd trade a guy having a breakout year and young big with all-star potential for him and at the time we were riding a nice winning streak.


You need to watch some more basketball and re-tool your analytical thinking before taking on the likes of me, I'm all for debating, and right now your stance just isn't even close, even Vega has done better at times.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

> I said I expect something to be done, I didn't say that it wouldbe this Baron deal.





> At this point, I'm expecting a deal. New Orleans needs to start over, they'll send P.J. Brown to NJ and Baron to us.


If by that you didnt mean that you expect this deal to be done, its not a case of me not being able to read. Its a case of you not being able to explain yourself well at all.

Again: 


> Dunleavy is tired of being in the lotto every year





> And Dunleavy doesn't have a history of the lottery with the Clips


When have I ever said that the Clippers need to be in the lotto? Never. Then why is that what you are debating?




> And I'm so glad you have these "analysis" down to a science, and that science you have is garbage, and I'm not the only one that has said so.


Talk is cheap. Call it garbage, but you never seem to be able to tackle any of my points.



> I mean lol, for you to even say how you explained kittles for artest logically is just flat out stupid, kittles for artest itself is ridiculous, so how can any "explanation" be logical?


Sorry, forgot who i was talking to. Didnt realize that logic is a foreign concept to some, so let me explain it to you. As part of that deal, i said that the only way it would happen is if indiana decided that artest is too much of an embarrassment to the organization, and then wanted to start over again next year with a FA. If they did that, kittles and someone else from the clippers would give them someone for nothing this year to play (since artest is suspended), and theyd have kittles expiring contract to play with next year. Teams have given up on players before, despite their skill because of fiascos. Spreewell, etc. Are you trying to tell me its not a possiblity that the pacers may not want to deal with artest anymore? Many have reported that is a HIGH possiblity. And if that was true, it would not make sense to get someone who plays his position now who can give some proudction, AND who has a 10 million dollar expiring contract?



> And about the Dunleavy trade, ya Dunleavy wants his son to play for him, yet he didn't want the Golden State job because his son was there, so it makes sense that now he'd trade a guy having a breakout year and young big with all-star potential for him and at the time we were riding a nice winning streak.


It was rumored that was what dunleavvy wanted. If you read my original post, i said i DOUBTED it because he didnt want to before, BUT that if it was true, you had to look at the logic of the deal, not only appeasing your coach, but if you were going to geta a michael redd the next year, or if you didnt think you were going to be able to resign simmons (they didnt resign q, but they resign simmons to a big contract? could happen, but its not a guarantee) this year, and probably not wilcox next year, then that deal made sense since if the dunleavvys did want to play together, they would have no contract issues with dunleavvy who can play a variety of positions.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

With the Hornets-Rockets trade (David Wesley for Jim Jackson and Nachbar), there's some chance that Baron Davis to Clipps rumors will go down?


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Zuca</b>!
> With the Hornets-Rockets trade (David Wesley for Jim Jackson and Nachbar), there's some chance that Baron Davis to Clipps rumors will go down?


As I said before, the Hornets know it's time to tear it down.

JJ won't be there long, what do they need him for?

They did that deal for Nachbar.

JJ will be moved.

PJ will be moved.

Baron will be moved.

Will they all go together?

Doubt it, its hard to give back an attractive package for all those contracts.

My guess is PJ ends up in New Jersey, and Baron will be a clipper iff Wilcox, Kittles, and Jaric are offered.

JJ who knows, but he won't be there, Nachbar is going to get a good look in New Orleans, finally, maybe they'll have him do more than stand in the corner.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Zuca</b>!
> With the Hornets-Rockets trade (David Wesley for Jim Jackson and Nachbar), there's some chance that Baron Davis to Clipps rumors will go down?


Yes, because New Orleans is about to firesale the entire team. When Magloire comes back, he will be moved as well. Young players, are what the Hornets want, because they want to rebuild the core.

The Wesley trade was incredibly stupid by Houston. Jimmy Jackson should be moving pretty soon to another destination. They should move him to Miami for Dorell Wright. 

New Orleans trades: Jimmy Jackson (No games yet played in 2004/05)
New Orleans receives: Dorell Wright	(No games yet played in 2004/05)
PF Malik Allen	(7.1 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 0.8 apg in 20.2 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +7.1 ppg, +4.3 rpg, and +0.8 apg.

Miami trades: Dorell Wright	(No games yet played in 2004/05)
PF Malik Allen	(7.1 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 0.8 apg in 20.2 minutes)
Miami receives: Jimmy Jackson	(No games yet played in 2004/05)
Change in team outlook: -7.1 ppg, -4.3 rpg, and -0.8 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to New Orleans and Miami being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. New Orleans and Miami had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out unless trade exceptions were used for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> As I said before, the Hornets know it's time to tear it down.
> ...


Don't forget Magloire. It would make sense to move him to a team like Philadelphia too for Dalembert. Or move him to New York for Mohammad and Sweetney.


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## emplay (Jun 9, 2003)

It's also in local print - my Hoopsworld article wasn't fiction - whether a deal happens is no lock though.

http://www.nola.com/sports/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-15/1104044247104950.xml


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## TheClipSHow11 (Jul 22, 2004)

if there is any god in clipperdom......... this will happen.



PLEASE 
PLEASE
PLEASE 

DONALD??????? PLEASE?????


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> Hey Weasel, Chad Ford talked about it today.
> ...



Thats good. I don't have insider but it is good to see that ESPN has now commented on it. Hopefully this means that trade talks aren't dead and the ball will be moving shortly.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

Wilcox, Kittles and Jaric (even with a pick) for Baron (maybe including George Lynch?) will be sweet for your team... and for NO too!


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Zuca</b>!
> Wilcox, Kittles and Jaric (even with a pick) for Baron (maybe including George Lynch?) will be sweet for your team... and for NO too!


I never did a deal including Lynch, but if it works under the cap, then the Clippers should get Lynch too. Reason why? Lynch only has one more year left and is a good veteran. 

Edit: And I just did it and it works under the cap, since the Clips are under the salary cap. 

New Orleans trades: PG Baron Davis (22.0 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 6.4 apg in 31.6 minutes)
SF George Lynch	(4.5 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.3 apg in 24.3 minutes)
New Orleans receives: SG Kerry Kittles	(5.6 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 2.4 apg in 22.2 minutes)
PF Chris Wilcox	(10.8 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 25.3 minutes)
PG Marko Jaric	(11.0 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 6.4 apg in 35.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +0.9 ppg, +3.8 rpg, and +1.0 apg.

L.A. Clippers trades: SG Kerry Kittles	(5.6 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 2.4 apg in 22.2 minutes)
PF Chris Wilcox	(10.8 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 25.3 minutes)
PG Marko Jaric	(11.0 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 6.4 apg in 35.5 minutes)
L.A. Clippers receives: PG Baron Davis	(22.0 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 6.4 apg in 31.6 minutes)
SF George Lynch	(4.5 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.3 apg in 24.3 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -0.9 ppg, -3.8 rpg, and -1.0 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to New Orleans and L.A. Clippers being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. New Orleans and L.A. Clippers had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

OT: This has been one of the biggest threads in the Clippers boards for a REALLY long time.
Keep it up!


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

When is Magloire due back, and why do you think he's going to be traded cheap to another team HKF? Isn't he young talent that the Hornets can build around?


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> When is Magloire due back, and why do you think he's going to be traded cheap to another team HKF? Isn't he young talent that the Hornets can build around?


Hopefully by the middle of next month. I don't expect Magloire to still be there, for the simple fact, that he is playing very inconsistently and he doesn't play hard every night. Now I knpw people saw him in the AS game last year, but that was due to the weakness of the Eastern Conference at his position. He is not competing hard out there for the Hornets, so why not trade him to a team like Seattle and get back Radman and Potapenko for him, while giving the Sonics a legit center to try and win the West. 

I guarantee when he comes back to a team that will be like 3-30, without B Diddy, that he will sulk and mail it in. Trade him while he has high value. Start all over with young talent and cap room and rebuild with guys who want to play there. 

All those guys in NO, don't want to play there. Might as well deal them out ASAP and get something good in return.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

Oh OK, I didn't get the sense that Magloire was sort of mailing it in already, or that he's unhappy. I've only caught a few Hornets games this season, for obvious reasons. :no:


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Now that the Hornets have Jim Jackson, the ultimate trade would be to do 2 seperate trades so Jackson could be included, ultimately the deal would be...

Clippers Trade:
Chris Wilcox
Kerry Kittles
Zeljko Rebraca
Marko Jaric

Hornets Trade:
Baron Davis
Jim Jackson
George Lynch

Why do the Clips do it? We become an instant playoff team.

Why do the Hornets do it? To help facilitate their rebuilding process. Jaric could be used to recruit Radman in the offseason, they get a potential all-star talent in Wilcox, and immediate cap relief from JJ's and Lynch's deals.


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## emplay (Jun 9, 2003)

I've heard the Hornets are planning on keeping JJ - though if he is a malcontent - that could change.

Clippers aren't under the cap any more - they can't make trades using cap space - but the deal works straight up anyway:

Kittles, Wilcox, Jaric + Rebraca

for Baron and Lynch

The Lynch wrinkle does not come from my original sources - so take that with a grain of salt.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>emplay</b>!
> I've heard the Hornets are planning on keeping JJ - though if he is a malcontent - that could change.
> 
> Clippers aren't under the cap any more - they can't make trades using cap space - but the deal works straight up anyway:
> ...


The Clippers can do a Rebraca, Kittles, Jaric a pick for Baron and Lynch and then do a Wilcox for JJ deal. It works under the cap.


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## jokeaward (May 22, 2003)

Wilcox: "Sweet, I get to play with Baron Davis instead of Jaric!"
Baylor: "Hello, Chris..." :laugh:


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

I don't see why this trade wouldn't go through seeing how the Clippers have been getting destroyed in the month of December. The team is playing like there needs to be a change and soon.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>emplay</b>!
> I've heard the Hornets are planning on keeping JJ - though if he is a malcontent - that could change.
> 
> Clippers aren't under the cap any more - they can't make trades using cap space - but the deal works straight up anyway:
> ...


Who is your source, my post?

Why keep JJ, he does nothing for them, and they don't need him, their rebuilding a franchise, im sure they don't have Jim Jackson in mind as a part of their core.

If you can get immediate cap by getting rid of JJ and Lynch, you do it, and we would gladly take JJ and Lynch.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> 
> 
> Who is your source, my post?
> ...



Lynch, JJ and Baron? Sweet............ Playoffs for your team!

But I guess that Clipps will have to include at least 2 draft picks (first and second-rounders)


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Dunleavy shoots down trade rumor????

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/clippers/la-sp-cliprep29dec29,1,6701115.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-nba-clippe



> "You'd have better odds taking your money to Las Vegas than betting on that one," he said.


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## U Dont Know (Jul 13, 2004)

Wow now they are saying Kaman is in the trade?? lol Wonder if the Clipps would get rid of Kaman?


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Possibly Dunleavy shot down the idea of Kaman being traded. Because come on if they actually traded Wilcox and Kaman then they would have Mikki Moore and Rebreca playing center which is horrible. Hopefully the idea of getting Baron is still in the mist.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

Well if the Hornets want Kaman and Wilcox, fine, give us Magloire as well.

Thanks.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

> "You'd have better odds taking your money to Las Vegas than betting on that one," he said.


This is why you wait, before making comments like, "at this point, I expect a deal to get done." :laugh: 

But, like they said, he could be diffusing the Kaman part of the deal since theres no way the clippers trade both Kaman and Wilcox. Who knows.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>yamaneko</b>!
> 
> 
> This is why you wait, before making comments like, "at this point, I expect a deal to get done." :laugh:
> ...


Well 1, that proposal lists Kaman and Wilcox, no one here would even consider that, including myself.

2, I do still expect a move to be made.

I said that with this team at the stage it's in, I expect a move to be made, does that mean a move for Baron? No, it means a move, period.

RIF.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

No, you said:


> At this point, I'm expecting a deal. New Orleans needs to start over, they'll send P.J. Brown to NJ and Baron to us.


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## arenas809 (Feb 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>yamaneko</b>!
> No, you said:


I miss where I said "with" in between deal and New Orleans.

I've also talked about how I expect New Orleans to make moves on Baron, P.J. Brown, etc. because they need to.

You're reading what you want to read, not what I actually said.

RIF.


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

When i am directly quoting you, i am quoting what i said, not "what i want to" Now, maybe you want to say now that you mis spoke....thats fine, but its what you said.

Point is, you have been too gung ho on this trade without basis. If anything, you shouldnt have started on on it until monday of this week, after espn and a New orleans newspaper finally reported something.

Im still curious to know your opinion on the issues that the clippers have to think about before making the trade. What do you feel their thinking process will be on:

1. Considering the andre miller bust.
2. The fact that they never have traded for someone with a big contract before.
3. The fact that they have 5 years invested into shaun livingston.
4. The fact that they would be giving up kittles and jaric, leaving only ross as the back up SG/SF. 
5. The fact that davis is injury prone.

If you still think after all of that, that they would make the deal, thats fine, but youve got to at least address those puntos.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_10982.shtml 

The article talks about how the deal might be dead. How Jaric's injury might have killed the deal. The articles also mentions how the Clippers kept saying that there was no deal during all the rumors and talks.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

How many weeks Jaric will be sidelined?


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Zuca</b>!
> How many weeks Jaric will be sidelined?


At least 4 weeks.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>arenas809</b>!
> Well if the Hornets want Kaman and Wilcox, fine, give us Magloire as well.
> 
> Thanks.


*I'm with you. We cant trade Wilcox and Kaman together without get a decent (At least) center back*


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## DatSupadoopaballer (Aug 26, 2003)

*Blockbuster trade*

On espn.com Chad Ford has the clipps making a trade but i dont have insider could someone post up on what it said. Thanx


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

Are you taking about the rumor about Baron Davis that was mentioned? If you are here is a thread, http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=131463&forumid=11 , that we have talking about it.


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## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

the clippers do need a scorer to put up points with magettee so if they could get baron with out giving up corey then they should be really good


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## yamaneko (Jan 1, 2003)

Hehehehe, 40 people have viewed this thread thinking that the clippers might be making a trade, and that we had the scoop here.. :sour:


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## arcade_rida (Jun 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>EHL</b>!
> Oh OK, I didn't get the sense that Magloire was sort of mailing it in already, or that he's unhappy. I've only caught a few Hornets games this season, for obvious reasons. :no:


Yes, Magloire is very unhappy. I actually heard him say he would love to come to Toronto and play. I think he regrets signing with the Hornets Of course now the Raptors dont have anything to give unless they offered the Hornets Donyell Marshall/Pape Sow/Rafel Araujo/76ers 1st or Denver 1st round picks/Chris Bosh. Those are the only guys I see the Hornets wanting.


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>yamaneko</b>!
> Hehehehe, 40 people have viewed this thread thinking that the clippers might be making a trade, and that we had the scoop here.. :sour:


Yeah, I agree.
So I am merging this into the Davis thread.


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## Zuca (Dec 4, 2003)

No news on Baron?

There is a lot of trades happening, Hornets is in completely rebuilding type, and Clippers will lost the chance to acquire a terrific PG in Baron Davis?????

Jaric-Wilcox-Kittles-1st round pick for Lynch and Baron...

I still think that this deal can happens...


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## Weasel (Oct 18, 2003)

From what I last heard the Hornets wanted both Wilcox and Kaman to be included in the trade for Davis. Dunleavy had allready said he wouldn't trade Kaman and even if that had happend the Clippers would be weak now in the center position.


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