# Breaking News: D'Angelo Russell traded to Nets. Deal done!



## Ballscientist

https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/877287243236462592


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## Ballscientist

Just my opinion: Magic Johnson is a great executive.

Lakers trade Mozgov 48 million contract remaining for Lopez $23 million expiring contract.

Lakers get A-

Nets get B+


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## arasu

This is a terrible deal for the Lakers. I think they could have dumped Deng also, if they're going to give up a player with Russell's talent. It appears this is a preliminary move to get Paul George, but I'm not fine with gutting the team to get him. I think Magic is very eager to put his stamp on the team, and to make flashy moves that look good short-term. If he had simply drafted and waited for 2018 free agency, the team would be essentially the same one Jim Buss and Kupchak were already constructing, which would make Magic look a little like Colangelo benefiting unduly from Hinkie's 'process'.


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## e-monk

I think they have doubts about DLo's maturity and drive


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## RollWithEm

I personally think this is a complete no-brainer move for the Nets. The people criticizing them are dumb. Why not take a flier on Russell? What's the downside? What do they care about having a bad contract on their books? It's not like they'll be a player in free agency any time soon.


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## arasu

e-monk said:


> I think they have doubts about DLo's maturity and drive


Lillard and Curry weren't even in the league at Dlo's age. Maturity, to a great degree, comes with age and experience. I agree that Russell is a little behind in that category, but his talent makes up for it. He has appeared to be both physically and mentally fragile, but if he stays healthy and continues to improve, he could become part of a core that leads the Nets out of the abyss. The Nets just got a #2 pick caliber talent for a guy they weren't expecting to be able to resign. As far as I'm concerned, this is a blown deal by the Lakers for sure.


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## e-monk

I see it for both sides but on the Lakers end a lot depends on what else happens and what this move allows them to do later


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## e-monk

arasu said:


> Lillard and Curry weren't even in the league at Dlo's age. Maturity, to a great degree, comes with age and experience. I agree that Russell is a little behind in that category, but his talent makes up for it. He has appeared to be both physically and mentally fragile, but if he stays healthy and continues to improve, he could become part of a core that leads the Nets out of the abyss. The Nets just got a #2 pick caliber talent for a guy they weren't expecting to be able to resign. As far as I'm concerned, this is a blown deal by the Lakers for sure.


BI is same age range and untouchable so I think there's maybe a discernable difference and maybe it takes a guy who hung 42-17-6 in a game 6 of the finals at age 20 to tell that difference 

then again what do I know? 

anyway tell the truth, if you could do it over right now you would take Krispysnax Porkchops over DLO in a heartbeat


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## arasu

e-monk said:


> BI is same age range and untouchable - anyway tell the truth, if you could do it over right now you would take Krispysnax Porkchops in a heartbeat


At the time of that draft I was very interested in Porzingis as well as Turner. I recall suggesting a trade down to try and get Turner and Booker. Sure I'd re-do that draft, but I'd still take Russell over Okafor, which is the guy almost everyone wanted the Lakers to take.


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## King Sancho Fantastic

This gives the Lakers nearly two full Max slots next summer. They can trade for PG now using the two first rounders and JC or they can just wait it out and sign PG plus another max level free agent next summer. Hate losing DLo but he's the sacrifice needed to get out of the Moz albatross.


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## Ballscientist

I'd even dump two more young core (Randle and JC) to the Nets, then aggressively sign free agents for 1 year deal like Manu Ginobili, Korver, nene ......


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## MojoPin

Russell just doesn't pass the eye test. He will never be an all star. Too soft, too slow. If he develops work ethic he can still have a nice career. Good trade.


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## Uncle Drew

Just when I was saying I like the way the FO is approaching this off-season, being patient, not jumping into things. What the fuck. 

You give up on a 21 year old who has put up numbers literally only a handful of guards have at the same age in HISTORY. 

You do this deal a full fucking year before you actually need the cap space? You do it before you have anything actually lined up to get PG? 

I had my doubts about Magic when he first came on. I was not excited to see Mitch go, but really thought Pelinka and Ryan West would be the voices of reason. GTFO with this shit. This will go down as Magic's Kwame Brown trade. He better hope there's a Pau Gasol deal lined up somewhere down the line. 

Unbelievable.


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## King Sancho Fantastic

I think Russell could be a good 2nd/3rd option on a championship team in his prime.


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## arasu

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> This gives the Lakers nearly two full Max slots next summer. They can trade for PG now using the two first rounders and JC or they can just wait it out and sign PG plus another max level free agent next summer. Hate losing DLo but he's the sacrifice needed to get out of the Moz albatross.


The cap space is certainly needed, considering the upcoming free agent prospects in '18. If the Lakers can get George (now or in '18), without further gutting the team, and if they add another solid free agent addition in '18, all will be forgiven. It looks like there could be a major hole at SG. A guy like Rodney Hood, assuming he continues to improve and gets fully healthy, could be a great fit. With the Jazz possibly going all-in on Hayward this summer, they may not be willing to match an offer for Hood in restricted free agency. 

I've seen the Lakers make many deals that I didn't like or that they clearly got the bad end, but, as I see it, a terrible deal for the Lakers is an average deal for most teams. I think like most Laker fans, I have expectations for them that fans of other teams could never reasonably expect to fulfill.


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## Ballscientist

True market value for Russell is low.

Salary dump is a cornerstone of success for Lakers and Clippers.

Jerry West is the most overrated in the entire nba. I am waiting to see his salary dump.


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## elcap15

I just don't really see the point in this deal right now. I like Lopez a lot actually, but I don't think it makes a lot of sense.

Future moves could totally change my opinion, so I hope this is juts the first action in a series of events.


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## DaRizzle

Paul George AND Lebron...AND Ball better be Westbrook 2.0 or fuck this trade.

I hated on Dlo PLENTY....and Im okay with trading him in the right situation....but this wasnt it...he was a much more valuable asset IMO


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## DaRizzle

There better be some backroom agreements in place and this is step one to something amazing


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## Uncle Drew

MojoPin said:


> Russell just doesn't pass the eye test. He will never be an all star. Too soft, too slow. If he develops work ethic he can still have a nice career. Good trade.


I sincerely thought these kind of takes were the minority and reserved for laker fans who wanted to draft Okafor and national writers who are lazy af and just follow the narrative. 

I guess I'll give some credence to the idea he was some sort of locker room distraction/cancer of sorts. Had to be something. Luke had to have been okay with this, at least I would think. 

But FOH with questioning his talent or ability. Dude seriously put hip crazy numbers for a guard his age playing his minutes. Like, historic. And if that's with an "attitude", and without a single playmaker next to him, WTF would he have done with a better winning culture and Lonzo Ball next to him? Jesus, this is more and more stupid the more I think about it.


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## MojoPin

Dude shot 40% and gave up hella points on d. Young, yes, but ranked as the worst starting PG in the league. My assumption is that no one was willing to give up a lottery pick for him


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## Uncle Drew

DaRizzle said:


> Paul George AND Lebron...AND Ball better be Westbrook 2.0 or fuck this trade.
> 
> I hated on Dlo PLENTY....and Im okay with trading him in the right situation....but this wasnt it...he was a much more valuable asset IMO


This is basically where I am. Magic is doing this in hopes of landing PG and LBJ, no doubt. Unbelievably fucking stupid risk, but if it works out, worth it, obviously. Odds of it happening, what, 5%? 

And AGAIN, why now? If this is truly DLo's value (basically nothing), why sell at the ultimate low on a 21 year old?? WTFFFFF. I need to go for a fucking run.


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## Ballscientist

All kinds of Russell are overrated!

B Russell is overrated legend;

D Russell is overrated future star;

Russell Westbrook has 29% of 3-pt fg?


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## Uncle Drew

MojoPin said:


> Dude shot 40% and gave up hella points on d. Young, yes, but ranked as the worst starting PG in the league. My assumption is that no one was willing to give up a lottery pick for him


Your assumption that his trade value was low is obviously correct considering what we got for him. 

Your take on his game is, well, wrong. He's an average defender by the numbers. And his offensive production per 36 min rating is among the best of any 21 year old guard in the last 20 years. 

Just let your hot takes go, man. You got your wish. Now watch him go be a star in Brooklyn.


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## elcap15

Unfortunately for Dlo, Brooklyn is not known for cultivating talent. He should still get to play off ball with Lin playing PG. There's a defensive back court for you!


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## Uncle Drew

Another good point made by Ben Rosales from LakerSBN. 

Lonzo Ball's major flaws were largely covered up by DLo's strengths; PnR, shot creation namely. You wanna talk about putting the pressure even higher on Lonzo now (assuming that's the pick), holy shit. I'm not as sure this is the right fit anymore.


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## King Sancho Fantastic

I don't think PG and Lebron is the goal. PG and Westbrook next year makes too much sense though. Especially with Ball on the roster to keep everyone happy


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## DaRizzle

Im all over the place...Seven Stages of Grief


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## DaRizzle

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> I don't think PG and Lebron is the goal. PG and Westbrook next year makes too much sense though. Especially with Ball on the roster to keep everyone happy


...but Westbrook is a PG...like Lonzo...so I dont know what to think


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## King Sancho Fantastic

Lonzo is a 6'7 natural point. He's big enough to guard 2 guards and Russ is a natural 2 guard offensively anyways. I'm sure he wouldn't mind someone taking some of the pressure off him in terms of facilitating.


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## King Sancho Fantastic

Westbrook also does a ton of his damage in the PNR which is Lonzo's weakness.


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## arasu

MojoPin said:


> Dude shot 40% and gave up hella points on d. Young, yes, but ranked as the worst starting PG in the league. My assumption is that no one was willing to give up a lottery pick for him


Harden's shooting numbers at the same age were nearly identical. Since Russell shoots such a high volume of threes, shooting percentage should be broken down by areas of the floor. 

Career shooting for Russell (4070 minutes):

.575	from inside 3 feet, a very solid stat

.464	from 3-10 feet, not bad

.346	from 10-16, sub-par

.383	from 16-<3, mediocre

.351 on threes, 44% of total FG attempts, good at that volume


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## Uncle Drew

The narrative around Russell is perplexing. Not even relating to the video BS, just generally have to believe now that there was some fire under all that smoke. Maybe Luke was as fed up with him as Byron just chose to be professional about it. Maybe Lou Will was specifically calling him out when he said some of our young guys are legit and some didn't really want it. Maybe players do hate playing with him (even though he was literally our only playmaker last year).

Ding putting out his piece on the professionalism front has to be coming directly from either Magic or Jeanie. Though if you're looking to trade a kid, why assassinate his character in the media and further lower his trade value? WTF man, I just can't make any sense of this.


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## King Sancho Fantastic

A potential 2018 lineup of :

Ball (yr2)
Westbrook (prime) Clarkson (yr4)
Ingram (yr3)
PG (prime) Randle (yr4)
Zubac (yr3)

That could do some serious damage.


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## King Sancho Fantastic

Uncle Drew said:


> The narrative around Russell is perplexing. Not even relating to the video BS, just generally have to believe now that there was some fire under all that smoke. Maybe Luke was as fed up with him as Byron just chose to be professional about it. Maybe Lou Will was specifically calling him out when he said some of our young guys are legit and some didn't really want it. Maybe players do hate playing with him (even though he was literally our only playmaker last year).
> 
> Ding putting out his piece on the professionalism front has to be coming directly from either Magic or Jeanie. Though if you're looking to trade a kid, why assassinate his character in the media and further lower his trade value? WTF man, I just can't make any sense of this.



Ding was Kobe's mouthpiece. Pelinka was Kobe's agent. Have to think there's some connection there.


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## Uncle Drew

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> A potential 2018 lineup of :
> 
> Ball (yr2)
> Westbrook (prime) Clarkson (yr4)
> Ingram (yr3)
> PG (prime) Randle (yr4)
> Zubac (yr3)
> 
> That could do some serious damage.


I mean, the many many things that have to happen for this to come true aside, this deal is STILL unnecessary. Could've done other things to create that cap space. Could have dealt DLo at the deadline or a year from now. 

What happens now if we don't get PG? Does anyone seriously think Lonzo for DLo constitutes a major upgrade in year one? Reminder, our pick next year is gone and unprotected.


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## Uncle Drew

Dear lord, David Aldridge just reported we tried to trade down to Sac to throw a lottery pick at Indy for PG. WTF is happening? This is like my worst fear coming true when Magic took over. How did we go from "we don't want to give up any of our assets to get PG" to "everyone but Ingram is expendable to get PG". We're trying to Melo to the Knicks the fuck out of this thing, only with no guarantees we actually get the player we want.


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## Jamel Irief

The only way Im happy with this trade is if Brook Lopez helps the Lakers make the playoffs and then they finally sign an all-star free agent.


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## King Sancho Fantastic

If the Pacers don't agree to trade PG to us before the draft on Thursday, do the Lakers package 27/28 with Deng to get out of his contract?? If we're going big in 2018 free agency, might as well try to clear the cap as much as possibles right?


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## arasu

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> If the Pacers don't agree to trade PG to us before the draft on Thursday, do the Lakers package 27/28 with Deng to get out of his contract?? If we're going big in 2018 free agency, might as well try to clear the cap as much as possibles right?


Considering what the Lakers have already given up for cap flexibility, I think they would do that. Considering that this draft looks super top-heavy and weak past the top 10, I think those picks wouldn't be enough.


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## e-monk

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> If the Pacers don't agree to trade PG to us before the draft on Thursday, do the Lakers package 27/28 with Deng to get out of his contract?? If we're going big in 2018 free agency, might as well try to clear the cap as much as possibles right?


don't forget that the closer it gets to February, the less of the things we give up... that clock which is ticking is in Indiana and it is their clock - each minute passing without resolution for them is diminishing returns _for them _- right now is their best opportunity for an equitable deal so let's just all be cool like 3 little fonzies and tell that bitch to chill etc - #winning


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## Ballscientist

Lakers talked to Kings today, same as my thread 10 days ago.

https://twitter.com/daldridgetnt/st...-picks-with-kings-to-set-up-paul-george-deal/


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## King Sancho Fantastic

If your answers frighten me, then I should probably cease asking scary questions...


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## Ballscientist

Honestly, the true ceiling of Lonzo Ball is Ricky Rubio.

I'd even trade Kings #10 for Paul George now. Assuming PG is traded to Clippers, they are not going to allow him to join Lakers in 2018. Isn't that clear?


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## Ballscientist

The biggest scary thing for Lakers is that Clippers offer DeAnder Jordan for PG, then do whatever it takes to keep PG in 2018.

It is possible that Pacers accept Jordan after they communicate with Jordan.


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## King Sancho Fantastic

Why would the Pacers trade for Deandre when Turner is the future franchise center?


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## e-monk

why are you engaging w this nonsense person?


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## Ballscientist

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Why would the Pacers trade for Deandre when Turner is the future franchise center?


Please take out the word "Franchise" Your team would look like a shit if you call Jordan Hill franchise player. Anyway it is easy to trade Turner.


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## King Sancho Fantastic

Turner was the 2nd best player on a playoff team his rookie year. Maybe not franchise, but certainly on his way to becoming a star. The Jordan Hill comparison is asinine.


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## Jamel Irief

You know, this better be a Peeler/Lynch for 2nd rounder type trade or I'm going to be seriously pissed off. There better be shanegangins going on to justify this stupid of a deal. 

We've had cap room for like 4 summers in a row and haven't signed shit. Pelinka can't be arrogant enough to assume he can change that coming off another (highly likely) lottery year. He was an agent 5 months ago so I have faith he knows the future.


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## R-Star

I saw how horrible this deal was and how people were acting like it was a genius move and I had to come back here.

Much to my chagrin most posters around here are acting like it was a great deal as well.

Trading a #2 pick from a couple years back (that you all hyped for the past 2 years) as a throw in salary dump trade is an absolute garbage deal. 

Blows my mind this was the best you could get.


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## e-monk

> Originally Posted by R-Star
> Jordan Hill who is an overpaid role player, Steve Nash who's career is over and a draft pick is too much for Hibbert?
> 
> And you actually think that. Like you honestly, truely believe that.
> 
> That is why I'm done posting on here. You're an idiot. So many of you are just delusional morons that it makes this place unpostable.
> 
> I came here to check in on fantasy league and made the mistake to look around again.


true story


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## R-Star

e-monk said:


> true story


Oh weird, I thought you blocked me.....


Fucking chump.


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## e-monk

silly little bitch


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## R-Star

Nice reply friend. 


Weird how out of the 6 active posters left here you and Ballscientist are the highest post counts per day huh? I'm baffled as to why your "LAKERS!!!! FUCK YAAAAA!!!!!" 
insight doesn't bring more posters flocking to join.....


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## King Sancho Fantastic

This is one of those deals that really can't be judged until that cap space is spent next summer. Need to see what we do with that money.


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## R-Star

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> This is one of those deals that really can't be judged until that cap space is spent next summer. Need to see what we do with that money.


I fully agree that the deal was done for cap space. They signed Mozgov last year though, and D'Angelo was the #2 pick from the year prior. For me to see media calling this a wizard move from LA drives me insane. 

I know you LA sons of bitches don't watch hockey, but in Canada we get to hear that every shitty move the Toronto Maple Leafs make is their next dynasty securing move. Don't pay attention to the fact they've only made the first round twice in the last 10 years, or the fact almost any trade they make is pure garbage, the media tells you it's solid gold.

This isn't a good trade. Is anyone sold they couldn't have packaged Mozgov and next years first for Lopez? Because I'm not. And with the whole idea of getting George and another max contract next year that pick is basically worthless. But hey, just give away Russell instead.

I wouldn't care if people weren't saying it was a good trade. It's a horrible trade. As a guy who kept having to swallow supposed amazing Larry Bird trades that were absolute shit, don't do it Laker fans, make this man accountable.


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## e-monk

> Originally Posted by R-Star
> This isn't a good trade. Is anyone sold they couldn't have packaged Mozgov *and next years first *for Lopez? Because I'm not. And with the whole idea of getting George and another max contract next year that pick is basically worthless. But hey, just give away Russell instead


good old dipshit rolling hard on the whole 'doesn't know what he's talking about' train... you keep doing you rstar, you keep doing you


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## R-Star

e-monk said:


> good old dipshit rolling hard on the whole 'doesn't know what he's talking about' train... you keep doing you rstar, you keep doing you


The guy who hypes up every single Laker pick and free agent every year and then turns around to talk about how amazing dumping the 2nd overall pick from a few years ago is calling me a dipshit?


Hell, you even had good things to say about Mozgov was when they signed him.

And I'm the dipshit because I'm not well versed in what picks the Lakers have? That's priceless. 

I'm proud that you finally became a well known poster around here now that no one is left. Enjoy your posting with ballscientist.


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## DaRizzle

R-Star said:


> I saw how horrible this deal was and how people were acting like it was a genius move and I had to come back here.
> 
> Much to my chagrin most posters around here are acting like it was a great deal as well.
> 
> Trading a #2 pick from a couple years back (that you all hyped for the past 2 years) as a throw in salary dump trade is an absolute garbage deal.
> 
> Blows my mind this was the best you could get.


You are wrong. So there's that. 
Hi R-Star


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## elcap15

Being a #2 pick has no relevance, literally the second the draft is over. No one cares where you picked, its all about what you can do going forward.

This deal still does not make much sense to me, especially since the draft has now come and gone and we still do not have PG. I don't even value Russell that highly. It just seems necessary to me at this point, I believe Russell's value will improve. It is true however, that the value of this trade will not be known until after next summer.

I will say I think we will be better next year because of the trade. I see Ball+Randle+Lopez being better than Ball+Russell+Randle. If BroLo can pull big defenders out to the perimeter Randle should be able to dominate.


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## elcap15

I forgot to say that I also think there must be something else going on with Russell. I think there must be something to the "entitled" and "poor work ethic" rumors.


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## Uncle Drew

I'm not as apocalyptic about the deal as I was a few days ago, but no, any justification based on future cap space makes the assumption that DLo's value would have somehow gone down this year when he's 21 years old. You make this deal at the deadline if it has to be made. Not to mention, you don't devalue him for months before you ship him off. 

Now I'm not an insider to the locker room atmosphere, practice habits, coach ability, etc, so this is independent of that.  But even as a cap move, this is premature, and therefore still bad, considering how good of a fit Lonzo and DLo would have been on the offensive end. 

That said, I do believe there was some fire under that cloud of smoke around DLo. It wouldn't take much to convince me that players didn't like him personally, or like playing with him, nor did the coaching staff like coaching him. Still don't like the move. Coach the kid, make him fit. Or showcase him, and sell a little higher than a late first and cap relief.


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## R-Star

elcap15 said:


> Being a #2 pick has no relevance, literally the second the draft is over. No one cares where you picked, its all about what you can do going forward.
> 
> This deal still does not make much sense to me, especially since the draft has now come and gone and we still do not have PG. I don't even value Russell that highly. It just seems necessary to me at this point, I believe Russell's value will improve. It is true however, that the value of this trade will not be known until after next summer.
> 
> I will say I think we will be better next year because of the trade. I see Ball+Randle+Lopez being better than Ball+Russell+Randle. If BroLo can pull big defenders out to the perimeter Randle should be able to dominate.


I'm pretty confident you guys will get PG. Unless the Pacers trade him to some team that might wind up as the next super team, he seems intent to go to LA. 

The being said, could you not have just played Mozgov 40 minutes a night and showcased him this upcoming season? Why trade him now and have to trade D-Lo? Makes no sense if this move is supposedly to free up cap space to sign George 365+ days from now. 

Hell, you could have probably done a D-Lo, Randle, Mozgov for Butler(plus for salary reasons) and paired him with George. 

I'm not arguing with you as we both seem to agree here. It just blows my mind how anyone can argue this was a good deal so I get fired up.


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## Ballscientist

Welcome back, R-Star.

Rob Pelinka says the Lakers will be "sacred" about their cap space for next summer. 

What does it mean?

1. tons of one year deal or 1+1 deal with team option now.

2. Clean up the house to be ready for next summer (keep Ingram and Ball)

Deng and JC are gone?


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## DaRizzle

R-Star said:


> I'm pretty confident you guys will get PG. Unless the Pacers trade him to some team that might wind up as the next super team, he seems intent to go to LA.
> 
> The being said, could you not have just played Mozgov 40 minutes a night and showcased him this upcoming season? Why trade him now and have to trade D-Lo? Makes no sense if this move is supposedly to free up cap space to sign George 365+ days from now.
> 
> Hell, you could have probably done a D-Lo, Randle, Mozgov for Butler(plus for salary reasons) and paired him with George.
> 
> I'm not arguing with you as we both seem to agree here. It just blows my mind how anyone can argue this was a good deal so I get fired up.


*"Mozgov for 40 min"*- Really? Give a player that doesnt work in the new Lakers system 40 min a night to "showcase" him?? No we couldnt unless we want to ditch Luke's entire philosophy of a fast quick moving team. He would stick out like a sore thumb and be a detriment. Everybody knows what Mosgov is, a decent classic styled C. You dont need to showcase him for that.

*DLo-* Im personally convinced we traded him just before his value really dropped. I could go on and on but my main reasons Im glad he is gone is 1. Not as good as hoped 2. Would have to pay him soon to keep him. 3. I think his knees are damaged goods, might be the next Brandon Roy 4. SHIT attitude.

We want people who buy into the system. Mosgov was already bitter by the end of last season for being asked to sit. GTFO then Mosgov, you are a HORRIBLE fit anyways to a run and gun system.

Butler and George...no thanks...maybe getting to the WCF is not good enough around these parts


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## King Sancho Fantastic

Magic's quote on Russell at Lonzo's presser is telling.


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## King Sancho Fantastic

> D'angelo is an excellent player. He has the talent to be an all star. We want to thank him for what he did for us. But I needed a leader. I needed someone also that can make the other players better also that players want to play with.


Interesting


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## Uncle Drew

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Interesting


So, basically what Byron Scott had said? 

Let's say it's true, him not being a pure point and a leader doesn't make him useless. Zo and DLo would have been great together. 

Magic's shown his cards. His plan is cap space + star chasing. So Jim and Mitch's plan for 4 years, just with a better face. Hope it works out.


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## R-Star

DaRizzle said:


> *"Mozgov for 40 min"*- *Really? Give a player that doesnt work in the new Lakers system 40 min a night to "showcase" him?? No we couldnt unless we want to ditch Luke's entire philosophy of a fast quick moving team. He would stick out like a sore thumb and be a detriment. Everybody knows what Mosgov is, a decent classic styled C. You dont need to showcase him for that.*
> 
> *DLo-* Im personally convinced we traded him just before his value really dropped. I could go on and on but my main reasons Im glad he is gone is 1. Not as good as hoped 2. Would have to pay him soon to keep him. 3. I think his knees are damaged goods, might be the next Brandon Roy 4. SHIT attitude.
> 
> We want people who buy into the system. Mosgov was already bitter by the end of last season for being asked to sit. GTFO then Mosgov, you are a HORRIBLE fit anyways to a run and gun system.
> 
> Butler and George...no thanks...maybe getting to the WCF is not good enough around these parts


Seeing as you clearly aren't competing next year, why the hell would you be against showcasing Mozgov at the detriment to the team? Hell, you even said a paragraph later that going to the WCF with George and Butler wasn't good enough, but you refuse the idea of showcasing a scrub like Mozgov to hoodwink the Knicks, Kings or some other junk franchise into taking him without having to add Russell? That makes 0 sense. 


Also, reading something like "George and Butler? No thanks!" is well..... I can't write anything even remotely kind about one of the worst teams in the league for years saying they wouldn't like 2 of the best two way players in the game on their team.


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## King Sancho Fantastic

It's on thing to not be a leader. It's another thing to not be a leader while thinking that you are. Perhaps Lou was right with his comments about how some of the young guys want it and others don't. Sometimes players just don't like playing with certain players. A lot of times that player is good enough to put those animosities aside (Kobe). D'angelo Russell wasn't.


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## King Sancho Fantastic

Nobody is taking Mozgov without a young asset or first rounder attached. Don't kid yourself, bro.


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## DaRizzle

R-Star said:


> Seeing as you clearly aren't competing next year, why the hell would you be against showcasing Mozgov at the detriment to the team? Hell, you even said a paragraph later that going to the WCF with George and Butler wasn't good enough, but you refuse the idea of showcasing a scrub like Mozgov to hoodwink the Knicks, Kings or some other junk franchise into taking him without having to add Russell? That makes 0 sense.
> 
> 
> Also, reading something like "George and Butler? No thanks!" is well..... I can't write anything even remotely kind about one of the worst teams in the league for years saying they wouldn't like 2 of the best two way players in the game on their team.


Mosgov---So the Kobe farewell tour until the trade deadline...But instead of Kobe its for Mosgov...NO THANKS....not run the offense we actually want to develop until he is traded...NO THANKS. No I dont want to double down on a shit sandwich.

As for Butler/George...yes I am a spoiled Lakers fan. Im lucky enough to have grown up a Lakers fan...we are spoiled fans because Lakers are championship or bust....Lakers dont make moves to get better, they make moves to get championships...IDGAF about "competing" which is all a PG/Butler combo would do...Win or go home

Spoiled for sure....but that is reality in LaLa-Land


----------



## R-Star

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Nobody is taking Mozgov without a young asset or first rounder attached. Don't kid yourself, bro.


There's an endless list of Jerome James type players over the past decade getting deals. Hell, you guys signed him last year. Just wait until this free agency where some chump coming off a slightly above average season gets a big payday. 

I watched Austin Croshere get paid what would literally be 8 billion dollars with inflation after the Pacers made their Finals run. There are a lot of bad teams out there.

Not to mention the fact you traded D-Lo for a center on a 1 year contract whom you have no intentions on keeping. So whether he's decent, or the worst player in the league with 1 year on his deal left is irrelevant considering there's 0 chance you compete next season.


----------



## R-Star

DaRizzle said:


> Mosgov---So the Kobe farewell tour until the trade deadline...But instead of Kobe its for Mosgov...NO THANKS....not run the offense we actually want to develop until he is traded...NO THANKS. No I dont want to double down on a shit sandwich.
> 
> As for Butler/George...yes I am a spoiled Lakers fan. Im lucky enough to have grown up a Lakers fan...we are spoiled fans because Lakers are championship or bust....Lakers dont make moves to get better, they make moves to get championships...IDGAF about "competing" which is all a PG/Butler combo would do...Win or go home
> 
> Spoiled for sure....but that is reality in LaLa-Land


Even with Paul George on your team next season without giving up a thing, you aren't a playoff team, let alone a contender. And you sit there and say you prefer dumping Mozgovs contract to bringing Butler on the team?

Nothing you're saying makes a lick of sense. If you're willing to be either "championship or bust" who cares if in the bust year its Lonzo racking up assists to make shitty Mozgov seem like a decent starting center and keep a #2 pick that has solid value?

Just admit it was a horrible trade. That's all I'm looking for.


----------



## Ballscientist

DaRizzle said:


> Lakers dont make moves to get better, they make moves to get championships


:manbearpig::wademad:


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

They're not trying to compete for a championship. They're trying to improve and develop their young core and if that leads to wins and the playoffs then cool. Playing Mozgov 30 minutes a night just to showcase him stunts that development. Especially for a player like Zubac who was better than Mozgov last year and needs all the minutes he can get. I get why Lopez was an ideal candidate in the trade tho. His game at least fits the system they're running now, especially with his improved outside shooting which can serve as template for Zubac. He also won't cry like Mozgov did if he loses minutes to Zubac. Also, having Lopez' bird rights may prove handy next summer if we don't trade him to a contender at the deadline.


----------



## arasu

DaRizzle said:


> *"Mozgov for 40 min"*- Really? Give a player that doesnt work in the new Lakers system 40 min a night to "showcase" him?? No we couldnt unless we want to ditch Luke's entire philosophy of a fast quick moving team. He would stick out like a sore thumb and be a detriment. Everybody knows what Mosgov is, a decent classic styled C. You dont need to showcase him for that.
> 
> *DLo-* Im personally convinced we traded him just before his value really dropped. I could go on and on but my main reasons Im glad he is gone is 1. Not as good as hoped 2. Would have to pay him soon to keep him. 3. I think his knees are damaged goods, might be the next Brandon Roy 4. SHIT attitude.
> 
> We want people who buy into the system. Mosgov was already bitter by the end of last season for being asked to sit. GTFO then Mosgov, you are a HORRIBLE fit anyways to a run and gun system.
> 
> Butler and George...no thanks...maybe getting to the WCF is not good enough around these parts


I think some of your reasons are just grasping at straws in an attempt to view the trade as positive.

I do agree that showcasing Mozgov would be pointless. He is solid as a pick-setter/diveman, so he does fit some aspects of the offense, but his offensive limitations should only be tolerated if he can play solid defense, which he didn't do enough of. Mozgov's trade value was going to go up, but only due to less of his future contract needing to be paid.

As for your reasons for Russell's value dropping, I strongly disagree.

He was not as good as hoped? Maybe. We have highlight reels full of those crazy thread-the-needle passes that we hoped he could pull off in the pros. He is not going to lose that ability. He improved as he went along and put up some very good shooting nights. Barely a year ago the coaching staff was praising his work ethic, so there is no reason to think he won't continue to improve and increase in value. It's just way too early to judge whether he will or will not be an elite player.

If he breaks out next season, the Nets will be happy to pay him to be their best player. Before his knee started acting up, Russell was averaging 22 and 6 per 36 leading the Lakers to a 7-5 record. Obviously if his health didn't give out and the Lakers maintained a record anywhere close to .500, we wouldn't be having this discussion. But he did show that it may be possible for him to do that for an entire season. If the Nets give him 34+ MPG, he could very likely put up 22 and 6 from either backcourt position. That would make him a very valuable trade asset next summer, and still a year away from restricted free agency.

I have been concerned about his health. His injury last season derailed the Lakers momentum, but there are no signs that he is the next Brandon Roy.

There are some rumblings that his attitude is bad. That hasn't stopped players from succeeding in the NBA.

As for 'D-Lo, Randle, Mozgov for Butler', I think a lineup of Ball/Butler/Ingram/George/Zubac with Nance and Clarkson off the bench could easily step into contender status. I'd rather have Butler than Lopez. Sure Westbrook would be better than Butler, but how many other players are?


----------



## DaRizzle

R-Star said:


> Even with Paul George on your team next season without giving up a thing, you aren't a playoff team, let alone a contender. And you sit there and say you prefer dumping Mozgovs contract to bringing Butler on the team?
> 
> Nothing you're saying makes a lick of sense. If you're willing to be either "championship or bust" who cares if in the bust year its Lonzo racking up assists to make shitty Mozgov seem like a decent starting center and keep a #2 pick that has solid value?
> 
> Just admit it was a horrible trade. That's all I'm looking for.


You are being way too short-sighted in your analysis.

1. Lakers are getting PG at some point be it now or next Summer. Long term deal. Anchor of the "new" Lakers.

2. You are correct. We wont be a contender this upcoming season, but the Lakers (as do I) believe they are building the foundation to a team that could win it ALL. You obviously dont become a championship team overnight. I acknowledge "the process" and its importance.

3. Even though you are right it will be a "bust" year that doesnt mean large strides cant be made towards the finished product. Dafuq we gonna waste time "showcasing" a older player that everyone knows what you get out of him. GM's know what Mosgov is. They know he got benched not because he cant play but because he didnt fit the new system and the Lakers wanted to develop the youth. I want Ball, Ingram, Nance, Randle, and in this case Zubac to ball out! Trial by fire! They will be better because of it and more attractive teammates to play with for free agents.

3. For the Lakers specific situation YES I prefer dumping Mosgov than bringing in Butler. Like I said PG is coming here...maxing out PG and Butler...is not going to win jack shit...its just not. There is some dude named Lebron who is an asshole but plays basketball really well...Lakers are clearly saving space for him. Even if he doesnt come at least that was an attempt to be a TRUE championship contender....and then the money can be spent elsewhere.

No it was not a bad trade. Not at all. Big picture.


----------



## DaRizzle

arasu said:


> As for your reasons for Russell's value dropping, I strongly disagree.
> 
> He was not as good as hoped? Maybe. We have highlight reels full of those crazy thread-the-needle passes that we hoped he could pull off in the pros. He is not going to lose that ability. He improved as he went along and put up some very good shooting nights. Barely a year ago the coaching staff was praising his work ethic, so there is no reason to think he won't continue to improve and increase in value. It's just way too early to judge whether he will or will not be an elite player.
> 
> 
> I have been concerned about his health. His injury last season derailed the Lakers momentum, but there are no signs that he is the next Brandon Roy.
> 
> There are some rumblings that his attitude is bad. That hasn't stopped players from succeeding in the NBA.


Yeah...so where are those "thread the needle" passes? I sure didnt see many. Ill give him a pass on his very low assists because we didnt have the best shooters....but no...Ive seen two seasons of him...he is not special. Above average young player with bad knees and a bad attitude. Nobody on the Laker REALLY stuck up for him when his work ethic was questioned...just cliche answers "Hes working hard" etc...Stuff you say when you dont want to bash your own players



arasu said:


> As for 'D-Lo, Randle, Mozgov for Butler', I think a lineup of Ball/Butler/Ingram/George/Zubac with Nance and Clarkson off the bench could easily step into contender status. I'd rather have Butler than Lopez. Sure Westbrook would be better than Butler, but how many other players are?


Contenders? Against who?...if that was the Lakers lineup THIS year we get swept by GS in the first round....So we blow our wad on Butler and are even FURTHER away from a championship because we have long term contracts on a team that wont win shit.

I like this debate. Cheers


----------



## arasu

DaRizzle said:


> Yeah...so where are those "thread the needle" passes? I sure didnt see many. Ill give him a pass on his very low assists because we didnt have the best shooters....but no...Ive seen two seasons of him...he is not special. ...


Out of 569 assists in just 4070 minutes there were a good number of highlight worthy passes from Russell. At one point it appeared as though he was developing some excellent pick and roll chemistry with Zubac.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/793614132150870018





https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2015/12/4/9852526/lakers-highlights-dangelo-russell-pass

http://www.nba.com/lakers/video/teams/lakers/2017/03/25/1490412426855-zubac-dunk-1320064/


----------



## arasu

DaRizzle said:


> ...
> 
> 
> Contenders? Against who?...if that was the Lakers lineup THIS year we get swept by GS in the first round....So we blow our wad on Butler and are even FURTHER away from a championship because we have long term contracts on a team that wont win shit.
> 
> I like this debate. Cheers


If we assume Ball makes teammates better, and Ingram and Zubac are making their way toward stardom, it wouldn't be long for that lineup to be a threat to any team in the league.

Debates like this are what keep me from leaving forums for twitter and IG.


----------



## DaRizzle

Sure he had his moments...I wont take that from him....but they were few and far between.

Im not going to KEEP shitting on him because he is talented....but not as much as everyone thought or hoped for IMO....I know there are stats of his that will shit on my assessment...but I just dont buy it. I have seen him PLENTY and he doesnt pass the eye test for future "GREAT" player......MAYBE an allstar once or twice...MAYBE....but I wouldnt bet on it


----------



## DaRizzle

arasu said:


> Debates like this are what keep me from leaving forums for twitter and IG.


Im too old for that shit lol....Im on old people facebook and thats it


----------



## R-Star

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> They're not trying to compete for a championship. They're trying to improve and develop their young core and if that leads to wins and the playoffs then cool. Playing Mozgov 30 minutes a night just to showcase him stunts that development. Especially for a player like Zubac who was better than Mozgov last year and needs all the minutes he can get. I get why Lopez was an ideal candidate in the trade tho. His game at least fits the system they're running now, especially with his improved outside shooting which can serve as template for Zubac. He also won't cry like Mozgov did if he loses minutes to Zubac. Also, having Lopez' bird rights may prove handy next summer if we don't trade him to a contender at the deadline.


Brook Lopez isn't going to take Zubac's minutes? He directly replaces Mozgov, is better, and the Lakers have absolutely no plans on resigning him so please think about that before posting again.


----------



## R-Star

DaRizzle said:


> Sure he had his moments...I wont take that from him....but they were few and far between.
> 
> Im not going to KEEP shitting on him because he is talented....but not as much as everyone thought or hoped for IMO....I know there are stats of his that will shit on my assessment...but I just dont buy it. I have seen him PLENTY and he doesnt pass the eye test for future "GREAT" player......MAYBE an allstar once or twice...MAYBE....but I wouldnt bet on it


How the hell is a at worst in your opinion a future allstar (your words not mine) a throw in to dump Tim Mozgov's contract?

Admit a horrible trade is a horrible trade please.


----------



## DaRizzle

because it will allow to future HOF's on the team next year...keep up


----------



## MojoPin

Everyone already knows who Mozgov is. Playing him 40 minutes a night wouldn't increase his value.


----------



## e-monk

> “D’Angelo is an excellent player,” Johnson said Friday, when the team introduced its top draft pick Lonzo Ball at its practice facility. “He has the talent to be an All-Star. We want to thank him for what he did for us. But what I needed was a leader.* I needed somebody also that can make the other players better and also [somebody] that players want to play with*.” - Magic Johnson


http://deadspin.com/magic-johnson-couldnt-resist-trashing-poor-dangelo-russ-1796390106

just leaving this here w/o further comment


----------



## Jamel Irief

I just read a bunch of posts about why the Lakers can't play Mozgov because he doesn't fit the style and he stunts growth. What the hell are they going to do with Lopez then?

Also who cares if Russel isn't a leader, especially if you think you drafted one in Zo? Is having a guy that can score from every inch of the court such a bad thing?


----------



## DaRizzle

Jamel Irief said:


> I just read a bunch of posts about why the Lakers can't play Mozgov because he doesn't fit the style and he stunts growth. What the hell are they going to do with Lopez then?
> 
> Also who cares if Russel isn't a leader, especially if you think you drafted one in Zo? Is having a guy that can score from every inch of the court such a bad thing?


Oh cmon Jamel, you are better than that. Brook Lopez can keep up with a faster paced offense and can spread the floor with his range....Lopez and Mozgov are night and day in playing styles


----------



## e-monk

Jamel Irief said:


> Also who cares if Russel isn't a leader, especially if you think you drafted one in Zo? Is having a guy that can score from every inch of the court such a bad thing?





> I needed somebody also that can make the other players better *and also [somebody] that players want to play with*.” - Magic Johnson


if I'm reading that right the second part is more damning than just lack of leadership


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

R-Star said:


> Brook Lopez isn't going to take Zubac's minutes? He directly replaces Mozgov, is better, and the Lakers have absolutely no plans on resigning him so please think about that before posting again.


Read my post again. Focus on the part where I said Brook Lopez's game can serve as a template for a developing Zubac and that he won't cry like Mozgov did when he eventually does loses his minutes to Zubac. Do better.

PS. Good to have you back here stirring the pot like old times lol


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

Brook Lopez has become a legitimate stretch five. Hell, did you guys not watch him bombing 3 after 3 when we played the Nets this year?? He's clearly better than Mozgov and, most importantly, his game fits the system. That means it helps the development of the rest of the young guys on the squad. Not just him. Brook Lopez allows Ball, Randle, Ingram to develop faster than Mozgov would. Better Ball, Ingram, Randle = Better Zubac too. Not that difficult of a concept to understand.


----------



## e-monk

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Brook Lopez has become a legitimate stretch five. Hell, did you guys not watch him bombing 3 after 3 when we played the Nets this year?? He's clearly better than Mozgov and, most importantly, his game fits the system. That means it helps the development of the rest of the young guys on the squad. Not just him. Brook Lopez allows Ball, Randle, Ingram to develop faster than Mozgov would. Better Ball, Ingram, Randle = Better Zubac too. Not that difficult of a concept to understand.


he's not exactly fleet of foot and wont really scare anyone away from driving the lane but yeah he can hit some treys - as for stealing Jr jr's PT (as others have mentioned) that's a spurious claim, Ivaka can still get his requisite 20~mpg in a rotation featuring Lopez (who averaged 29mpg last season) as starter


----------



## Jamel Irief

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Brook Lopez has become a legitimate stretch five. Hell, did you guys not watch him bombing 3 after 3 when we played the Nets this year?? He's clearly better than Mozgov and, most importantly, his game fits the system. That means it helps the development of the rest of the young guys on the squad. Not just him. Brook Lopez allows Ball, Randle, Ingram to develop faster than Mozgov would. Better Ball, Ingram, Randle = Better Zubac too. Not that difficult of a concept to understand.


He's got an extra 5 feet of range than Mozgov, great. He is not quicker and he gets hurt frequently DaRizzle. Is he better than Moz? Sure. But your arguments that he "fits the system" better is whack. Moz's game is shooting Js, setting picks and rolling. He fit the offense just fine. Brook can shoot 3's and post up, but you guys just argued with R-star about why posting up a 5 doesn't fit the system.

The latter part of your post you just stated Lopez helps the young guys develop more and said its obvious, but didn't really explain why. Why is Brook Lopez being a better basketball player than Moz help the youngsters development more? You're the same guy that thought Lou Williams for Brewer was great for the long term health of the franchise despite the severe downgrade in talent.


----------



## PauloCatarino

My two cents: a center who would "help the young guys develop more" would have to be a rebounding, defensive-minded dude who wouldn't need to have the ball to be effective.
Brook Lopez doesn't fit that bill. Nor Mozgod did.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

Lmao at the difference between Brook Lopez and Mozgov being five feet of range. Brook was bombing three from 2-3 feet behind the three point line regularly in the half court and in transition last year . If you can't see how adding a 20pt per game scorer with range well beyond the three point line can affect the spacing needed for Luke's offense then I don't know what to tell you. He bring opposing centers out to the three point line. Which is kind of a big deal with guys who need that space in the paint to do their damage like Randle and guys who need slashing lanes like Ingram. The only thing Mozgov does better than Lopez is set screens because he sure as hell isnt a better passer than Lopez. Defensively its a wash because neither is an above average defender. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand. 

Offense runs smoother = young players grasping offense better = they play with more confidence = they develop quicker. 

Oh and me approving of the Lou trade had everything to do with the pick we acquired and the extra touches it gave Russell, Ingram and Clarkson + the tank. Seeing as that trade caused us to lose enough to be in the bottom 3 while also improving our young players enough to win the 5 games at the end that proved crucial towards keeping the pick, I'd say it was still the right move.


----------



## Ballscientist

I heard a few teams turned down the offer of Russell. 3 teams turned down D Jordan offer and 4 teams turned down L Aldridge offer.

Dallas Mavericks turned down deal for D’Angelo Russell.

https://lakeshowlife.com/2017/06/20/lakers-rumors-dallas-mavericks-turned-deal-dangelo-russell/


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

e-monk said:


> http://deadspin.com/magic-johnson-couldnt-resist-trashing-poor-dangelo-russ-1796390106
> 
> just leaving this here w/o further comment


Pelinka was an agent up until just a few months ago. Pretty sure he had a good sense of what players around the NBA thought and still think of Russell. The part about people not wanting to play with him is telling.


----------



## DaRizzle

Im going to the TOOL concert tonight...so Ill tell all you beeyatches why Im right and youre all wrong tomorrow.

Fucking TOOL! KSF, the concert is in your backyard! Get some lawn tickets and be blown away by one of the best live band ever....be sure to smoke a lot of weed


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

If I didn't have to work late I'd be tempted lol Have a brew and pour one out for Russell :laugh:


----------



## Jamel Irief

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Lmao at the difference between Brook Lopez and Mozgov being five feet of range. Brook was bombing three from 2-3 feet behind the three point line regularly in the half court and in transition last year . If you can't see how adding a 20pt per game scorer with range well beyond the three point line can affect the spacing needed for Luke's offense then I don't know what to tell you. He bring opposing centers out to the three point line. Which is kind of a big deal with guys who need that space in the paint to do their damage like Randle and guys who need slashing lanes like Ingram. The only thing Mozgov does better than Lopez is set screens because he sure as hell isnt a better passer than Lopez. Defensively its a wash because neither is an above average defender. It really isn't a difficult concept to understand.
> 
> Offense runs smoother = young players grasping offense better = they play with more confidence = they develop quicker.
> 
> Oh and me approving of the Lou trade had everything to do with the pick we acquired and the extra touches it gave Russell, Ingram and Clarkson + the tank. Seeing as that trade caused us to lose enough to be in the bottom 3 while also improving our young players enough to win the 5 games at the end that proved crucial towards keeping the pick, I'd say it was still the right move.


So we traded Russell for Mo Speights with a giant expiring contract?


----------



## e-monk

Jamel Irief said:


> So we traded Russell for Mo Speights with a giant expiring contract?


yes, and the #27 pick


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

Jamel Irief said:


> So we traded Russell for Mo Speights with a giant expiring contract?


We traded Russell for an older version of 2017 Porzingis. Check the numbers...

And a first rounder.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

Once again, it's a wait and see approach from me on this trade. Need to see how we use that capspace next year. Also need to see how Kuzma turns out.


----------



## MojoPin

I wonder if Ingram Zu and Alonzo are all playing summer league. Should be exciting


----------



## e-monk

MojoPin said:


> I wonder if Ingram Zu and Alonzo are all playing summer league. Should be exciting


yes, at least that's what Pelinka said after the draft


----------



## Jamel Irief

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> We traded Russell for an older version of 2017 Porzingis. Check the numbers...
> 
> And a first rounder.


Both the Knick and Nets asked Porzingis and Lopez to do a lot more offensively than you described Lopez's role next year. You said his value to the team was sitting 5 feet behind the three point line and bombing threes. A cool skill but the Clippers got Speights for a couple million. 

I already said that if Pelenkia uses the cap room on something worth it I'll shut the fuck up, but until that happens this is a horrible trade from all angles.


----------



## e-monk

PauloCatarino said:


> My two cents: a center who would "help the young guys develop more" would have to be a rebounding, defensive-minded dude who wouldn't need to have the ball to be effective.
> Brook Lopez doesn't fit that bill. Nor Mozgod did.


how about Slow Roy?


----------



## Uncle Drew

I just read two pages of arguments about what kind of player Brook Lopez is going to be for the Lakers. Who the fuck cares? Is he not just a rental? Aren't the odds of him being on the team past this year like 2%? With or without 2 max players next year? 

GTFO justifying this shit, man. If you guys have blind faith in Magic, cool. Wait and see on that shit, maybe he comes through in FA next year. But don't try to justify this bullshit deal. Space could have been cleared at the deadline. We sold ultra low on a fucking 21 year old who averaged 15.5 on 52% TS% sharing the court with Nick Young and Luol Deng. Playing next to a dynamic playmaker who can actually find him in his spots and off his cuts was not going to hurt his stock. My god. 

And Magic's comments are more telling of him than of DLo. Shitting on a player on his way out the door, a player that shares an agent with your number one FA target next year, is just plain dumb. 

Like I said, I'm not as apocalyptic about the deal as I was a week ago, and I'm super high on Lonzo. But hearing fans sit here and give Magic a pass on this shit when he's shown nothing to prove his competence yet is beyond frustrating. If Mitch and Jim pass up on bringing in Jerry West, then flip this stupid ass trade, everyone is calling for their heads. Magic's smile and charisma is not enough for me to just blindly follow and believe he alone can bring stars in. Just because he says it doesn't make it so. He HAS to produce now. Until he does, this looks dumb as fuck.


----------



## Uncle Drew

Jamel Irief said:


> Both the Knick and Nets asked Porzingis and Lopez to do a lot more offensively than you described Lopez's role next year. You said his value to the team was sitting 5 feet behind the three point line and bombing threes. A cool skill but the Clippers got Speights for a couple million.
> 
> *I already said that if Pelenkia uses the cap room on something worth it I'll shut the fuck up, but until that happens this is a horrible trade from all angles.*


This.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

Pelinka could use that space on some shit signings or he could use that space to bring in two superstars. We don't know yet. D'angelo Russell could become a future superstar. Or he could also be Michael Carter Williams 2.0. We don't know yet. So I'm not gonna sit around and cry about it like we traded away a multiple time all star for a sack of shit. Truth is reports of his possible locker room issues were surfacing well before Pelinka and Magic took over. That shit with Nick Young didn't sit well with not only his teammates but with other players across the league. Russell was out here liking tweets about how the Lakers shouldn't draft Lonzo Ball because DLo was already on the roster. He didn't do that shit by accident. I liked Russell's game but Magic, Pelinka and most importantly Luke Walton thought he was expendable. Pretty sure there's more than just on court reasons for this.


----------



## e-monk

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Pelinka could use that space on some shit signings or he could use that space to bring in two superstars. We don't know yet. D'angelo Russell could become a future superstar. Or he could also be Michael Carter Williams 2.0. We don't know yet. So I'm not gonna sit around and cry about it like we traded away a multiple time all star for a sack of shit. Truth is reports of his possible locker room issues were surfacing well before Pelinka and Magic took over. That shit with Nick Young didn't sit well with not only his teammates but with other players across the league. Russell was out here liking tweets about how the Lakers shouldn't draft Lonzo Ball because DLo was already on the roster. He didn't do that shit by accident. I liked Russell game but Magic, Pelinka and most importantly Luke Walton thought he was expendable. Pretty sure there's more than just on court reasons for this.


although Magic would do well to not pull that Phil Jackson stuff in future at least he waited until after the trade was made to devalue his player unlike Jackson who seems to have the process backward


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

MojoPin said:


> I wonder if Ingram Zu and Alonzo are all playing summer league. Should be exciting


Ingram, Zubac, Lonzo, Nwaba, Hart, Kuzma and Thomas are all playing Summer league. They're also bring in PJ Dozier who went undrafted. Dozier is an interesting talent. Was slated to go late first round/early second round but a knee issue and back issue scares teams away. I keep forgetting about Nwaba too. If he's improved his handle and shooting to add to his already stellar defensive ability he could legitimately be our starting SG next year.


----------



## King Sancho Fantastic

e-monk said:


> although Magic would do well to not pull that Phil Jackson stuff in future at least he waited until after the trade was made to devalue his player unlike Jackson who seems to have the process backward


Darius Soriano made a good point on Magics comment on Twitter. He said he didn't like them, but at least Magic was up front about it and it wasn't leaked out through back channels. Honestly I didn't like his comments either but I wasn't surprised by them and they confirmed what was already being hinted at about Russell. I'm sure Magic also said what he said because it added some veracity to what Byron was saying about Russell too and we all know Byron and Magic are good friends.


----------



## Uncle Drew

e-monk said:


> although Magic would do well to not pull that Phil Jackson stuff in future at least he waited until after the trade was made to devalue his player unlike Jackson who seems to have the process backward


I think that is incorrect. While nobody can alienate players quite like Phil (who was the first choice to replace Jim and Mitch btw), Magic and the Lakers at best slightly decreased DLo's value prior to trade. All the talk about how Ingram is untouchable while skating around DLo's status. Then Ding (Jeanie's mouth piece) putting out an article questioning DLo's professionalism days before the trade (similar to questioning Mitch and Jim days before firing). 

The Lakers didn't tank DLo's stock, but they certainly didn't help it.


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## Uncle Drew

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> ...I liked Russell's game but Magic, Pelinka and most importantly Luke Walton thought he was expendable...


And this is where we differ. Not one of those guys has shown me they deserve my blind faith in their decisions nor have they proven to be even good at their jobs yet. Love Luke and Magic for different reasons, not for their competency in their current job, not yet. If Jerry West was in here saying DLo's gotta go, ok. Mitch, having drafted him, being prepared to part ways with him, ok. Not just accepting Magic's take just because. And it lining up with Byron Scott's doesn't help the case. 

And don't mistake my hatred of this deal as some sort of un-dieing loyalty for DLo. He, along with everyone else on the roster was expendable for the right price. This wasn't it. We sold low, like rock bottom low. Plain and simple. Dumb deal. And it has a very small chance of paying off.


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## e-monk

while on the subject who here still wishes that the Lakers had given PJ the keys to the kingdom when they had a chance?


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## MojoPin

I don't think Phil has done any worse than Jimmy Boy.


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## Jamel Irief

King Sancho Fantastic said:


> Pelinka could use that space on some shit signings or he could use that space to bring in two superstars. We don't know yet. D'angelo Russell could become a future superstar. Or he could also be Michael Carter Williams 2.0. We don't know yet. So I'm not gonna sit around and cry about it like we traded away a multiple time all star for a sack of shit. Truth is reports of his possible locker room issues were surfacing well before Pelinka and Magic took over. That shit with Nick Young didn't sit well with not only his teammates but with other players across the league. Russell was out here liking tweets about how the Lakers shouldn't draft Lonzo Ball because DLo was already on the roster. He didn't do that shit by accident. I liked Russell's game but Magic, Pelinka and most importantly Luke Walton thought he was expendable. Pretty sure there's more than just on court reasons for this.


Zubac posted a picture with him and D-lo saying I'll miss playing with you and good luck. Larry Nance is liking pictures Russell posted yesterday. If you're going to read that far into social media, take it both ways.


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## e-monk

MojoPin said:


> I don't think Phil has done any worse than Jimmy Boy.


I think so, the Noah deal is awful, trading for Rose was a mistake, the Melo situation is a disaster, he's even on the verge of fucking up the one good thing he's done by screwing up the Porzingis situation


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## MojoPin

We traded four first rounders for 40 year old Steve Nash. Mozhov contract. Deng contract. PRetty bad


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## e-monk

MojoPin said:


> We traded four first rounders for 40 year old Steve Nash. Mozhov contract. Deng contract. PRetty bad


a little oversimplified and stiil not as bad as what PJ has done


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## Ballscientist

I always think Lakers have a better chance to sign LeBron than Clippers.

LeBron James will never be a Clipper, report says. link

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/new...-paul-blake-griffin/7edw9ttdp4901otuenz2ylz2u


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## MojoPin

e-monk said:


> a little oversimplified and stiil not as bad as what PJ has done


A lot of his was inherited though. Rose trade wasn't bad since he was expiring (if he resigns that's really bad; rose sucks). Noah got his contract partially because lakers set the bar with Mozgov. The melo situation is odd, but I honestly think Phil has been trying to annoy melo to the point he waives his no trade clause just to leave.


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## e-monk

MojoPin said:


> I honestly think Phil has been trying to annoy melo to the point he waives his no trade clause just to leave.


let's say I'm a used car salesman and I start my pitch by telling you that the car I'm trying to sell you gets terrible mileage, drives like a shopping cart with a jammed wheel, and will probably break down before you even make it back home and that's when I ask you for your best offer. does that make me a good used car salesman person? because PJ has now done that twice with the two most valuable cars on his lot...


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## MojoPin

I'm not saying he's justified, but Melo isn't exactly someone who would fetch much on the market, even without the drama. He will only allow a trade to a contender, and contenders have few good assets to offer. Maybe there is zero market, who knows. The knicks are better off without melo.


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## e-monk

MojoPin said:


> I'm not saying he's justified, but Melo isn't exactly someone who would fetch much on the market, even without the drama. *He will only allow a trade to a contender*, and contenders have few good assets to offer. Maybe there is zero market, who knows. The knicks are better off without melo.


isn't that 'no trade' clause something that happened on PJ's watch too though?


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## MojoPin

I don't even know. If it was then definitely a mistake.

I missed this part of Magics quote:

He added, "We want guys who are mentally tough, gym rats, guys who love the game," he said. "We want guys with no baggage. We want winners. Just like the guys we used to build the Showtime Lakers."

H said that right after the other quote.


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