# Game Thread: ECF: Game 3: Miami Heat @ Detroit Pistons



## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

<center> @ 
*(1) Miami Heat (H: 35-6 R: 24-17) vs. (2) Detroit Pistons (H: 32-9 R: 22-19) *

*Sunday, May 29, 2005
8:00 PM
TV: TNT*<center>


<center>*Probable Starters:*



*Shaquille O'Neal l Udonis Haslem l Eddie Jones l Dwyane Wade l Damon Jones*

*vs.*

*Ben Wallace l Rasheed Wallace l Tayshaun Prince l Richard Hamilton l Chauncey Billups*

Click on Picture to View Profile</center>








Team Roster l Team Stats 







Team Roster l Team Stats

<center>*







Won Regular Season Series*</center>
<center>2-1</center>

*Game 1:* Nov. 26, 2004: @Detroit 78, Miami 77 Recap l Box Score 

*Game 2:* Dec 30, 2004: Miami 89, @Detroit 78 Recap l Box Score 

*Game 3:* Apr 10, 2005: Detroit 80, @Miami 72 Recap l Box Score 



<center>:bball: Basketballboards.net NBA Playoffs forum :bball: </center>

<center>:bball: BasketballBoards.net's Miami Heat Board :bball:</center>

<center>:bball: ESPN Series Home Page :bball:</center>

Well it seems like its been forever since these two teams last played. Hopefully the time off has Rip near 100%.


----------



## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

I think we see a complete game out of the Pistons tonight. Going up 2-1 is pretty appealing to the them so I'm pretty sure they'll be focused tonight. I'm lookng for Prince or Billups to get going early. If either or both put their minds to it, Miami really has noone that matches up with them.


----------



## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

Sheed may have gotten a favorable call there. 

We really have to start making some free throws, those killed us last game.


----------



## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

44-41 miami


----------



## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

Zo with the airball and sheed the slam on the other other end

52-48 pistons


----------



## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

Billups hits the 3 pistons down 1

52-51 Heat


----------



## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

Wish Billups would have taken that last shot instead of giving it up Wallace.


----------



## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

The Pistons have to be estatic going into halftime Miami has given us their best half and we are down by 2.


----------



## irishfury (Jun 8, 2003)

Brian said:


> The Pistons have to be estatic going into halftime Miami has given us their best half and we are down by 2.


terrible idea by billups


----------



## P33r~ (Nov 22, 2004)

Its pretty quiet here tonight.

Too bad i cant watch the game. I can live with Shaq making his shots but Wade is on fire. You got to give credit to him for keeping this up after the last game. Kobe had a major game than was totally shutdown in the 3rd. Im not getting any pistons coverage.

What are we doing wrong on D? Miami are hitting everything. Their D hasnt been great either but if this becomes a high scoring affair, miami is going to have the edge.


----------



## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

Arroyo was playing for Miami this time. It worries me that we are still sloppy on offense for the 2nd game in a row.


----------



## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

A good clean game so far.....gonna be another close one


----------



## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

Why the hell is Lindsey Hunter controlling the ball on the last possesion of the 3rd quarter?


----------



## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

Foul on mourning then he gets T'd up.

79-79 pistons


----------



## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

Billups got fouled a couple of times on that drive apparently they cancel each other out.


----------



## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

foul on wade 4 on him

81-79 pistons


----------



## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

Sheed with the shot and foul

83-79 pistons


----------



## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

Man it's hard to believe my eyes. First chauncey gets boxed around and sent to the bench bleeding with no call than Lindsay and Sheed pull out some amazing plays. daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn this is good to watch.


----------



## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

Great D by Lindsay on Wade and Wade's 5th on the other end.


----------



## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

Terrible foul by Rip on the butler 3 luckly he missed the ft

89-88 Heat


----------



## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

these 2 teams always play close games


----------



## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

Woot we got our homecourt back. Was a nice back n forth game. :cheers:


----------



## Copper (Dec 9, 2004)

Am I alone in the belief that Miami is getting an extremely nice reach around from the officials? from the no calls on our offensive end to the ticky fouls on our Defensive end I am ready to pop a blood vessel. Im at a loss for words at how the officiating could be this bad by accident. I know its got nothing to do with all the missed free throws, but a fair whistle would be nice. Especially since we are supposed to be getting the homecookin.


----------



## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

Didn't you guys scold us for blaming the officiating in Game 1. I could swear you did. Please don't turn around and be hypocrites now. I thought it was a well called game for the most part. There was a few ticky tack fouls on both sides.


----------



## thegza (Feb 18, 2003)

Copper said:


> Am I alone in the belief that Miami is getting an extremely nice reach around from the officials? from the no calls on our offensive end to the ticky fouls on our Defensive end I am ready to pop a blood vessel. Im at a loss for words at how the officiating could be this bad by accident. I know its got nothing to do with all the missed free throws, but a fair whistle would be nice. Especially since we are supposed to be getting the homecookin.


Agreed. It's pathetic.


----------



## Copper (Dec 9, 2004)

Heated said:


> Didn't you guys scold us for blaming the officiating in Game 1. I could swear you did. Please don't turn around and be hypocrites now. I thought it was a well called game for the most part. There was a few ticky tack fouls on both sides.


 Are you kidding? between the Jordanesque treatment of Wade and the no calls on the offensive left arm of Shaq on every righthanded hook and the absolute mugging of Billups that left him bleeding? Gets serious. Im not blaming the officials entirely, cause the missed free throws are a killer. But anyone that doesnt think Miami got the whistles tonight musta watched a different game than I did.


----------



## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

Detroit played well, but somehow lost. I did think the officiating favored Miami tonight, and I'm rooting for the Heat, however, I only saw the second half.


----------



## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

Last five minutes of the game seemed like nothing but Miami at the line.


----------



## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

Tough game for the pistons to lose it like that. Got some bad calls and let it get to their heads. Wade and Shaq both had a big for the Heat. Its nice that the games are going to be every other game now.


----------



## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

I am not one to pay much attention to officiating but after Detroit went on that 11-0 run the officials took over.

I saw Piston players going to the hoop without a prayer of getting a foul. I saw Heat players picking up touch foul after touch foul to close the game.

The two games in Miami were fairly called (imo) but this game was ridiculously one sided. If this is a sign of things to come, the Pistons are toast.

-------

I will consult my TiVo and give a breakdown of all the suspect calls and non-calls during the critical portion of the 4th quarter.


----------



## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

Copper said:


> Am I alone in the belief that Miami is getting an extremely nice reach around from the officials? from the no calls on our offensive end to the ticky fouls on our Defensive end I am ready to pop a blood vessel. Im at a loss for words at how the officiating could be this bad by accident. I know its got nothing to do with all the missed free throws, but a fair whistle would be nice. Especially since we are supposed to be getting the homecookin.


and werent you the one saying not to whine after game 1. The popping blood vessel. Exactly how I felt after game 1

like I said, when both teams get to the line, it favors Miami. Both teams had a lot of ticky tack fouls called tonight, and i like that. Wade, Shaq, Zo, Sheed, Ben, and Dyess all in foul trouble. Miami plays a lot better when they get to the line


----------



## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

And those two techs in the end were re-goddamn-diculous.


----------



## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

JoeD said:


> And those two techs in the end were re-goddamn-diculous.


Pistons lost the so called poise the tnt people always talk about. Stupid tech on sheed followed by a stupid foul and tech by Chauncy


----------



## WSU151 (Mar 13, 2005)

Brian said:


> Tough game for the pistons to lose it like that. Got some bad calls and let it get to their heads. Wade and Shaq both had a big for the Heat. Its nice that the games are going to be every other game now.


I wouldn't say they got bad calls...because Heat had some bad calls as well. The refs just called more touch fouls in this game than either of the first two. Rip looks like he's somewhat back to normal. I was amazed at how many three point play opportunities the Pistons had. That's pretty clutch making (what seemed like 90% of) the continuation baskets. And a 10 point Heat lead, no matter how much time left, still scares the crap out of me because I have the feeling that Detroit has the ability to erupt on offense and just dominate on defense at any time. Wade was phenomenal shooting form the perimeter until Hunter was on him, great adjustment by Larry. Heat won by shooting well when they had to get back in the game. Still a great series...see you guys in a couple days.


----------



## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

Heated said:


> Didn't you guys scold us for blaming the officiating in Game 1. I could swear you did. Please don't turn around and be hypocrites now. I thought it was a well called game for the most part. There was a few ticky tack fouls on both sides.


And you were already getting ready to blame the refs before the heat got the lead back.



Heated said:


> This game is being stolen from us. And not by Detroit.


And this was after Billups got fouled 3 times with zero calls and was bleeding as a result.


----------



## WSU151 (Mar 13, 2005)

JoeD said:


> And those two techs in the end were re-goddamn-diculous.


Tell your boys to shut their goddamn mouths.


----------



## Copper (Dec 9, 2004)

OK Im not the only one, and If Pacerguy agrees it has to be true....lol. I think even with a fair shake of the whistle it woulda been a tough game to pull out with the way we were shooting free throws, but it woulda been nice to let the players decide the outcome. Im sure the Miami fans love it and think its all roses, but step back and reverse the teams. If Wade drives to the hole and gets hammered and comes up bleeding and there is no foul? then on the next posession instead of a makeup call Shaq gets a foul goin for a rebound? fair? good officiating? heck no...Wade doesnt even get fouled and he gets the whistle. Shaq drives his shoulder and left elbow into the defender and the refs claim the defender fouled him in the elbow with his chin. Its absurd and it really detracts from the game, that is one of the reasons I have loved college ball. Very rarely if ever do you see special treatment for players.


----------



## WSU151 (Mar 13, 2005)

The Enigma said:


> I saw Piston players going to the hoop without a prayer of getting a foul. I saw Heat players picking up touch foul after touch foul to close the game.


Did you not see the middle-to-end of the third quarter when Detroit was the beneficiary of many touch fouls?

And what happened to that whole belief that Pistons fans and players don't cry about officiating? Do I need to rehash that comment that one of you guys made?


----------



## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

Copper said:


> OK Im not the only one, and If Pacerguy agrees it has to be true....lol. I think even with a fair shake of the whistle it woulda been a tough game to pull out with the way we were shooting free throws, but it woulda been nice to let the players decide the outcome. Im sure the Miami fans love it and think its all roses, but step back and reverse the teams. If Wade drives to the hole and gets hammered and comes up bleeding and there is no foul? then on the next posession instead of a makeup call Shaq gets a foul goin for a rebound? fair? good officiating? heck no...Wade doesnt even get fouled and he gets the whistle. Shaq drives his shoulder and left elbow into the defender and the refs claim the defender fouled him in the elbow with his chin. Its absurd and it really detracts from the game, that is one of the reasons I have loved college ball. Very rarely if ever do you see special treatment for players.



you are bringing up that one play that I think everybody knows was the wrong call. Yes, that was a bad call

Those 2 points wouldnt of made a difference. We got about 10 more ft's then you, and if it wasnt for intentional fouls in the 4th quarter, we would of had about the same amount of free throws. Wade, Shaq, and Zo for the heat in foul trouble, and Sheed, Ben, and Dyess for the Pistons in foul trouble. Overall, both teams got called for a lot of fouls, which I think its already established that heat fans like tightly called games and pistons fans like to let both teams play and be physical without anything being called.


----------



## froggyvk (Sep 12, 2002)

I don't know what's worst: the loss, how we lost, or now having to deal with 2 more days of Heat homers.


----------



## P33r~ (Nov 22, 2004)

What the in ****! A combined 97 free throw attempts! Wow i wish i could have seen this game. Anyway dont come telling us we are hypocrites for mentioning the officiating because just about everyone else seems to agree with us on strange officiating this game, whereas noone really agreed with you guys on an officiating disparity in the first game.

Lets not blame this on the officiating tonight though. I think missing free throws and letting calls get into our head lost us this one. I knew Rip would break out of his shooting slump the same way he did last year when he returned home. Too bad we didn't have the ability to stop Wade. Wow this loss really hurts.


----------



## Canes01 (Apr 29, 2005)

Whiny team=whiny fans


----------



## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

This is truly amazing. Hypocrisy at its finest. When we "whined" about the poor officiating in game 1 you basicly told us to suck it up and told us to stop blaming the refs and NOW look at YOU. Where's our credit? And no copper i'm not kidding. This game was pretty fairly called in my opinion. But since you lost you don't see it that way. You know just like you didn't see the favoritism for the Heat in game 1, when there obviously was.


----------



## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

WSU151 said:


> And what happened to that whole belief that Pistons fans and players don't cry about officiating? Do I need to rehash that comment that one of you guys made?


There is no one on earth who won't complain about fouls since officiating isn't perfect. We all know that if it was Detroit going to the line non stop at the end of the fourth what you guys (you guys meaning the ones complaining after game 1). If what happened to chauncey happened to wade, followed by a make up call for the pistons, there would be so many flames coming from the heat board the internet would collapse. 

Having said that... I don't entirely blame the officials.


----------



## ian (Jun 4, 2003)

Canes01 said:


> Whiny team=whiny fans


Classy


----------



## irishfury (Jun 8, 2003)

I have nothing to express but disgust.....I won't blame the refs of 52 free throws even thou it was rediculous we still should have been able to pull threw and keep a championship team composure.....


----------



## Lord Toranaga (Apr 20, 2005)

JoeD said:


> And those two techs in the end were re-goddamn-diculous.


Amen.
Thoughts on the game:

Wade is better then i thought he was. He was great again tonight.

Its time for Tayshaun to step up. You're in a dogfight baby. Time to bring it.

Larry Brown, another poor/average night. Perhaps he's already thinking about Cleveland? Why not bring lindsey back at the 3 minute mark. He was on his way to being the MVP of the game.

The team as a whole has to up their intensity. We have yet to play a whole great game in the playoffs this year. They will need it for game 4. 

I still say Pistons in 6. I think we take the next three. But truthfully I’m not psychic. Its put up or shut up time guys. I just happen to think they will "put up".


----------



## ian (Jun 4, 2003)

Heated said:


> This is truly amazing. Hypocrisy at its finest. When we "whined" about the poor officiating in game 1 you basicly told us to suck it up and told us to stop blaming the refs and NOW look at YOU. Where's our credit? And no copper i'm not kidding. This game was pretty fairly called in my opinion. But since you lost you don't see it that way. You know just like you didn't see the favoritism for the Heat in game 1, when there obviously was.


Heat fans were saying a wide disparity of actual free throws vs average free throws meant the game was poorly officiated. I guess you're a hypocrite too.


----------



## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

Heated said:


> This is truly amazing. Hypocrisy at its finest. When we "whined" about the poor officiating in game 1 you basicly told us to suck it up and told us to stop blaming the refs and NOW look at YOU. Where's our credit? And no copper i'm not kidding. This game was pretty fairly called in my opinion. But since you lost you don't see it that way. You know just like you didn't see the favoritism for the Heat in game 1, when there obviously was.


Amazing that the game wasn't fairly called in your opinion when the Heat were losing. :krazy:


----------



## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

JoeD said:


> And you were already getting ready to blame the refs before the heat got the lead back.
> 
> 
> 
> And this was after Billups got fouled 3 times with zero calls and was bleeding as a result.


As I said, there were ticky tack fouls on both ends. You're just further proving my point. This was a tightly called game on both sides. It really didn't favor either team. RIP got to the line on multiple occasions where it looked like he wasn't even touched.


----------



## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

ian said:


> Heat fans were saying a wide disparity of actual free throws vs average free throws meant the game was poorly officiated. I guess you're a hypocrite too.


actual free throws.. average free throws.. what? In english please.


----------



## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

WSU151 said:


> I wouldn't say they got bad calls...because Heat had some bad calls as well.


Paint me a picture, remind me of one of those "bad calls" that went against the Heat in the 4th.

I can recall a few bad calls that went against Detroit in the 4th.


----------



## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

The Enigma said:


> Paint me a picture, remind me of one of those "bad calls" that went against the Heat in the 4th.
> 
> I can recall a few bad calls that went against Detroit in the 4th.


Hunter pushing wade in the back whenever he tried to bring up the ball and post up. Those are usually fouls


----------



## WSU151 (Mar 13, 2005)

JoeD said:


> There is no one on earth who won't complain about fouls since officiating isn't perfect. We all know that if it was Detroit going to the line non stop at the end of the fourth what you guys (you guys meaning the ones complaining after game 1). If what happened to chauncey happened to wade, followed by a make up call for the pistons, there would be so many flames coming from the heat board the internet would collapse.
> 
> Having said that... I don't entirely blame the officials.


Great post Joe D. :clap: 

The officials weren't great tonight, and they never are. But I just hope they call it consistently. With the exception of the Billups play, it was pretty obvious they were calling everything, IMO. I'm sure you all will disagree and call me blind/idiot/whatnot, but here's the thing: I didn't mind the officiating in Game 1 because it was consistent. Heat had 10 free throws, Pistons had 12. Game Two was the same way. Tonight's game, a small disparity, but clumsy fouls and overagressiveness did the Pistons in, especially in the 4th.


----------



## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

No reason for piston fans to get worked up. I am sure we will get a favorable whistle in game 4 after tonights debacle. I suspect we will see more of Lindsay on Wade. Shaq has no time to rest. The further we get into this playoff series the less he is going to have. Obviously you would like to be 2-1 but no need for panic for the piston players and fans.


----------



## WSU151 (Mar 13, 2005)

The Enigma said:


> Paint me a picture, remind me of one of those "bad calls" that went against the Heat in the 4th.
> 
> I can recall a few bad calls that went against Detroit in the 4th.


Seriously - there were four or five bad calls against the Heat in the third quarter that really got the momentum going for the Pistons. Small ticky tack fouls that are usually never called. 

Or, what, does everything before the 4th quarter not matter anymore? Interesting.


----------



## Brian. (Jul 11, 2002)

wadeshaqeddie said:


> Hunter pushing wade in the back whenever he tried to bring up the ball and post up. Those are usually fouls


Shaq hooking pistons defenders as he moves past him are usually fouls.


----------



## WSU151 (Mar 13, 2005)

Heated said:


> actual free throws.. average free throws.. what? In english please.


ian makes sense. Heat fans were complaining how the Heat only got 10 free throws in game 1, but average well over 20, and therefore it was a poorly officiated game. That's what ian was inferring, Heated.


----------



## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

Brian said:


> Shaq hooking pistons defenders as he moves past him are usually fouls.


yes they are...both werent called. Lots of other stuff on both teams were called though, and called at a high rate.


----------



## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

Brian said:


> No reason for piston fans to get worked up. I am sure we will get a favorable whistle in game 4 after tonights debacle. I suspect we will see more of Lindsay on Wade. Shaq has no time to rest. The further we get into this playoff series the less he is going to have. Obviously you would like to be 2-1 but no need for panic for the piston players and fans.


Yeah, this was bad but I'm not panicking. I think we're going to play way better after this and cut down on the sloppyness and TOs. If we don't cut down on those things though we're finished. Same with the free throws. 

I'm really enjoying this series. This is the best playoff series I've seen in a long time, including last years finals.


----------



## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

WSU151 said:


> ian makes sense. Heat fans were complaining how the Heat only got 10 free throws in game 1, but average well over 20, and therefore it was a poorly officiated game. That's what ian was inferring, Heated.


Oh well why didn't he say so. :laugh:

This is true though I didn't say it, how does this make anyone a hypocrite?


----------



## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

Heated said:


> Oh well why didn't he say so. :laugh:
> 
> This is true though I didn't say it, how does this make anyone a hypocrite?


Because you called it unfair when you lost and fair when you won with an argument that some of you made applying to both.


----------



## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

One thing I'm not sure on is with 3 minutes to go, like 3 times in a row the shot clock would be half way through and then a foul would be called for Wade. It seemed like we were trying not to foul in all those situations so it is a bit suspicious. I'm asking if the fouls were right because I didn't see closely, I was far too frustrated at that point and there weren't any replays. Anyone?


----------



## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

wadeshaqeddie said:


> Hunter pushing wade in the back whenever he tried to bring up the ball and post up. Those are usually fouls


If my memory serves me correctly, I recall Hunter bumping Wade with his chest while keeping his arms outstretched in a wingtip stance. I thought he moved his feet extremely well. Not once can I recall him using his forearms or abusing the rules to defend Wade. 

-------

I actually thought that Brown's decision to sit Hunter when he was carrying the team (particularly from an energy standpoint) was a critical mistake.

When he subbed out for Hamilton, Jones hit a critical three pointer over a cold Hamilton on that very possession.


----------



## JoeD (Sep 2, 2004)

In hindsight I wish he'd of kept Hunter in and Billups out, but I understand and agree with Brown's reasoning at the time. I think Billups and Hamilton should be closing the game for us.


----------



## maswe12 (Feb 23, 2005)

Hunter did a great job of denying Wade the ball...but his success was a bit of a mirage. When he was playing D on Wade, Van Gundy had Keyon running the ball up and down the court. OUr entire dought was the time that he was in the game...he couldnt get the ball to Dwyane and Wade lost his rythym and picked up two ticky tack fouls. Our big run (that espn wont shut up about) coincided with Damon Jones coming back into the game and stabalizing our half court offense. Keyon is a great spark off the bench, but he is not a real point guard and he sorta collapsed our offense.


----------



## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

JoeD said:


> In hindsight I wish he'd of kept Hunter in and Billups out, but I understand and agree with Brown's reasoning at the time. I think Billups and Hamilton should be closing the game for us.


I thought that Prince should have been the one to sit.

Billups 
Hunter
Hamilton
Wallace 
Wallace

...Should have closed the game (IMO). That lineup matched up better with the Heat defensively.

-------

The Pistons are in trouble now and if the games are called anything like game three the Pistons might as well pack the fishing rods on the way back to Miami.

… I really wanted to see Pistons vs. Spurs but Heat vs. Spurs might not be so bad (at this point I am just pulling for a competitive final).


----------



## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

I was impressed with the Heat's ability to break the Detroit press. Good win.


----------



## slyder (May 27, 2005)

I don't understand how you can be that bad of an officiating crew and work the Eastern Conference Finals of the NBA playoffs. The biggest spotlight and this is the best the NBA can do? This was the most inconsistent officiating I have ever seen in the NBA. It's not the volume of fouls. It wouldn't bother me as much if everything was called, but when you are calling all these touch fouls everytime down the court, how do you miss Chauncey Billups driving down the lane and being bloodied by the opposition, or Shaq's bullying manuevers in the post. I can't even count the number of times I was yelling at the television about Shaq and his off arm hooking around the defender. 

However, any excitement I had about this game ended in the fourth quarter. Seems like everytime down the court there was some sort of whistle for a touch foul. I don't understand how anyone, outside of Heat fans, could like that brand of basketball. I typically don't find foul shooting contests particularly exciting, and that's what it became at the end.

Dan Crawford and Joe Forte have the name recognition, but I can't get over how horrible they were tonight. Usually I won't complain too loudly if the officiating is fair for both teams, but man...these guys were terrible.


----------



## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

slyder said:


> I don't understand how you can be that bad of an officiating crew and work the Eastern Conference Finals of the NBA playoffs. The biggest spotlight and this is the best the NBA can do? This was the most inconsistent officiating I have ever seen in the NBA. It's not the volume of fouls. It wouldn't bother me as much if everything was called, but when you are calling all these touch fouls everytime down the court, how do you miss Chauncey Billups driving down the lane and being bloodied by the opposition, or Shaq's bullying manuevers in the post. I can't even count the number of times I was yelling at the television about Shaq and his off arm hooking around the defender.
> 
> However, any excitement I had about this game ended in the fourth quarter. Seems like everytime down the court there was some sort of whistle for a touch foul. I don't understand how anyone, outside of Heat fans, could like that brand of basketball. I typically don't find foul shooting contests particularly exciting, and that's what it became at the end.
> 
> Dan Crawford and Joe Forte have the name recognition, but I can't get over how horrible they were tonight. Usually I won't complain too loudly if the officiating is fair for both teams, but man...these guys were terrible.


Every team gets games like this. Detroit got a horribly officiated game in their favor last series. You'll probably get one this round too.


----------



## kidd2rj (Jan 29, 2005)

slyder said:


> I don't understand how you can be that bad of an officiating crew and work the Eastern Conference Finals of the NBA playoffs. The biggest spotlight and this is the best the NBA can do? This was the most inconsistent officiating I have ever seen in the NBA. It's not the volume of fouls. It wouldn't bother me as much if everything was called, but when you are calling all these touch fouls everytime down the court, how do you miss Chauncey Billups driving down the lane and being bloodied by the opposition, or Shaq's bullying manuevers in the post. I can't even count the number of times I was yelling at the television about Shaq and his off arm hooking around the defender.
> 
> 
> > with all due respect though, this is what unnerves me about watching pistons games against other teams. other teams get called for a foul for having a hand on billups hip but then miss the reach in on hamilton, followed by the reach in by prince, followed by the contact on wallace's block yet no fouls are called. for the amount of contact that pistons created with their 'defense' there aren't nearly the right amount of fouls called. game 1 was a joke for the mugging that wade was getting on some drives for the pistons to only have 12 fouls. it goes both ways.
> ...


----------



## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

I heard this same whining in the Palace last night, and I just don't understand it.

The team fouls were basically even. We both got to the line almost the same amount of times (atleast before you fouled at the end to try and get back in it). The whining seemed to always stop when the Pistons started going on a run, and anytime there was a questionable call on the Pistons, it was a "we're the home team, world champs, we're supposed to get those calls"...give me a break. We played better basketball last night, and that's why we won. 

Honestly, if we play better in the last few minutes of game 1, this could be 3-0 easily. You could say the same about the game 2, but I'm very, very confident in what we've done so far. You all decided to jump all over us after game 1, maybe you shouldn't have spoke so soon and so many Heat fans wouldn't be in here talking back to you guys...........


----------



## ian (Jun 4, 2003)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> I heard this same whining in the Palace last night, and I just don't understand it.
> 
> The team fouls were basically even. We both got to the line almost the same amount of times (atleast before you fouled at the end to try and get back in it). The whining seemed to always stop when the Pistons started going on a run, and anytime there was a questionable call on the Pistons, it was a "we're the home team, world champs, we're supposed to get those calls"...give me a break. We played better basketball last night, and that's why we won.
> 
> Honestly, if we play better in the last few minutes of game 1, this could be 3-0 easily. You could say the same about the game 2, but I'm very, very confident in what we've done so far. You all decided to jump all over us after game 1, maybe you shouldn't have spoke so soon and so many Heat fans wouldn't be in here talking back to you guys...........


Getting equal team fouls doesn't prove anything, because one team simply could have been fouling a lot more


----------



## WSU151 (Mar 13, 2005)

ian said:


> Getting equal team fouls doesn't prove anything, because one team simply could have been fouling a lot more


LOL. That makes no sense. 

If one team is fouling a lot more than the other, then how in the world would there be equal fouls?


----------



## ian (Jun 4, 2003)

WSU151 said:


> LOL. That makes no sense.
> 
> If one team is fouling a lot more than the other, then how in the world would there be equal fouls?


Um, you know, committing fouls that weren't called properly...


----------



## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

ian said:


> Um, you know, committing fouls that weren't called properly...


 um, seriously....

do you think the refs have some bias against the WORLD CHAMPS? I mean really....why would the NBA have it out against you? You're the DEFENDING CHAMPS, if anything, they are rooting for you. 

I'm so tired of hearing these gripes when you lose, and if you win, it's just "Detroit Pistons defense"...

Like I said above, The Heat outplayed the Pistons last night, and that's why they won, bottomline...


----------



## ian (Jun 4, 2003)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> um, seriously....
> 
> do you think the refs have some bias against the WORLD CHAMPS? I mean really....why would the NBA have it out against you? You're the DEFENDING CHAMPS, if anything, they are rooting for you.
> 
> ...


I'm talking about your reasoning. Equal team fouls does not mean it was equal officiating. That's all.


----------



## maswe12 (Feb 23, 2005)

The call that the refs missed on chauncey was just awful, but all in all the Pistons were taking TERRIBLE fouls. If you are playing good defense its one thing, but the pistons were fouling non-stop for the last 3 minutes of the game. It was dumb, silly and not what I expected from them. I dont think it will happen again this series.


----------



## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

slyder said:


> I don't understand how you can be that bad of an officiating crew and work the Eastern Conference Finals of the NBA playoffs. The biggest spotlight and this is the best the NBA can do? This was the most inconsistent officiating I have ever seen in the NBA. It's not the volume of fouls. It wouldn't bother me as much if everything was called, but when you are calling all these touch fouls everytime down the court, how do you miss Chauncey Billups driving down the lane and being bloodied by the opposition, or Shaq's bullying manuevers in the post. I can't even count the number of times I was yelling at the television about Shaq and his off arm hooking around the defender.
> 
> However, any excitement I had about this game ended in the fourth quarter. Seems like everytime down the court there was some sort of whistle for a touch foul. I don't understand how anyone, outside of Heat fans, could like that brand of basketball. I typically don't find foul shooting contests particularly exciting, and that's what it became at the end.
> 
> Dan Crawford and Joe Forte have the name recognition, but I can't get over how horrible they were tonight. Usually I won't complain too loudly if the officiating is fair for both teams, but man...these guys were terrible.


Exactly, two calls come to mind. First the no call on Billups like you said, and Rasheed's fifth on Shaq. Where he was laying on the floor after words. Those symbolize the majority of that game.

It's not all the officiating though, we missed the free throws we did get and Dwyane Wade played a great game. It's frustrating but if the Pistons play the way they can they are easily better than the Heat with any officiating advantages possible. We just have to play like it first.


----------



## WSU151 (Mar 13, 2005)

ian said:


> Um, you know, committing fouls that weren't called properly...


The foul totals were 29 called on the Heat, 33 on the Pistons. You're not going to sit here and tell me there should have been 40 or 50 on the Heat, and maybe 12-15 on the Pistons, are you? Because right now, that's pretty much what a couple of you are implying...


----------



## reHEATed (Jun 29, 2003)

this has reversed 100% since after game 1. I love it

and the chauncy play was definately a foul. Bad call, I agree there. The sheed call was right though. Sheed grabbed shaq's arm, the foul was called, and then shaq bowled into sheed after the foul, knocking him into the ground. The foul call on sheed was right.


----------



## bananas (Apr 20, 2003)

these pictures sum up Miami Heat basketball at its finest


----------



## PacersguyUSA (Sep 1, 2002)

bananas said:


> these pictures sum up Miami Heat basketball at its finest


Haha, and they're winning with it too!


----------



## the wall (Jul 21, 2002)

PacersguyUSA said:


> Haha, and they're winning with it too!


Speaking of winning, how did the Pacers do this season?


----------



## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

bananas said:


> these pictures sum up Miami Heat basketball at its finest


 yes, we're a cheap basketball team. obviously, we've been doing it all year and people are finally realizing just how dirty we play. amazing...for a team the prides itself on tough, physical, in-your-face defense, you guys sure complain about these ticky tack fouls alot.....it's the playoffs, play the game...the refs didnt cost anyone a game yet, make FTs, execute at the end of games, etc. is gonna make the difference, not the refs


----------



## The Enigma (May 10, 2003)

wadeshaqeddie said:


> this has reversed 100% since after game 1. I love it
> 
> and the chauncy play was definately a foul. Bad call, I agree there. The sheed call was right though. Sheed grabbed shaq's arm, the foul was called, and then shaq bowled into sheed after the foul, knocking him into the ground. The foul call on sheed was right.


Actually I am watching that sequence (the Rasheed foul) as we speak (TiVo is the greatest invention since sliced bread IMO). I would also like to point out that your analysis of the foul being correct is inaccurate.

*Here is a breakdown of that entire play.*


Damon Jones crosses the half court line at the 5:46 mark of the 4th quarter while being defended by Billups.
From the 5:37 mark to 5:35 the Heat run a side pick and roll with Shaq to free up Jones for a running elbow jumper. The shot is missed but Zo tips the offensive rebound back to Jones.
They then post Shaq up against Rasheed Wallace. 

From the replay it is clear as day that Shaq hooks Rasheed Wallace before Rasheed grabs his arm. In fact it is Shaq putting his arm out to hook Wallace that made it accessible to be grabbed. 
...Shaq throwing Rasheed to the floor was after the fact.

_Now I know that it is a fast paced game and I understand that a ref can miss that call (human error must be taken into consideration), but what I cannot understand was why Shaq was not called for the 3 seconds violation on that play._


After the offensive board Shaq's left foot enters the lane at the 5:33 mark and he remains in the paint until the 5:25 mark when the foul was called. During the entire time you can see Billups yelling at the officials while pointing at Shaq's feet.

This abuse of the rules (8 seconds in the paint) is a bit hard to defend (from both a literal and figurative standpoint).

-------

...Btw please save any homer comments because I am not even a Pistons fan.


----------



## WSU151 (Mar 13, 2005)

Enigma I agree with your breakdown. Shaq uses his left arm to hook Wallace (which the baseline ref can't see too well), and then Wallace hooks arms then gets pushed. No argument there. I've never made an argument to the contrary.

As for the three seconds, I believe the rule is as long as one foot is out of the paint, the player is technically not "in the key"...to give some perspective, watch it on defense. On defense, Shaq looks like he spends all day in the paint, but every now and then he will have one foot step out to reset the count. All other big men in the NBA do this too, I've noticed. 

I don't have Tivo, so I can't really say anything about the situation you just pointed out, but I'm just trying to clarify the rule. If someone can correct me, that would be great.


----------



## HEATFREAK (May 21, 2005)

rasheed fouled Shaq right before shaq knocked him over, and the foul might of been blocking, it looked like he kinda tried to take the charge, but he was in the def. circle... i'm not sure tho


----------



## DetBNyce (Jul 23, 2002)

The Pistons lost the last two games because Miami made the plays that they needed to to win the game, not to mention Wade's amazing play in the last two. I do feel like they received the favorable whistle in game 3 however. Even then, that's still not the reason the Pistons lost. For me personally, Game 3 was the least exciting game of the series so far because of so many fouls being called. The refs essentially made it a FT shooting contest between the two teams. I'd rather see them let the guys play than send someone to the free throw line every alternate possession.


----------



## slyder (May 27, 2005)

To clarify:

In my post I was not attempting to blame the officials for calling the game in either team's favor. What I'm asking for for game 4 is a little bit of consistency. If the referees decide they are going to call a tight game and call every touch foul, fine, but call every touch foul. Don't call touch fouls one minute, and then the next allow teams to commit murder. NBA players can adjust to the officiating if it is consistent. If they don't know what is going to be called a foul, and what's not going to be called a foul over the course of a game, that's a problem. 

Obviously, ultimately, I would like to see the players decide the game, not the guys in stripes sending players to the line every single play. But, that's just my preference.


----------

