# Mike Bibby



## tone wone (Jan 30, 2003)

did he play better last year than this or is it 
the fact the now after that great performance in the last 2 rounds of last years playoffs expectations are higher

I think right now Bobby Jackson is playing the way Bibby played in the playoffs last year







......damn they should've won


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## Raptor Fan 42 (Sep 20, 2002)

Are you referring to how he played in the Mavs game yesterday?


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## Vinsanity (May 28, 2002)

he sucks


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## 3PeatComplete (Jul 11, 2002)

I can't believe Bill Walton said he's the best point in the League.


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## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

Bill Walton was probably high...


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## rainman (Jul 15, 2002)

i think right now he is about 75% of where he was at the end of last year.its all about matchups and the matchup for him against the lakers was perfect because of the ability of he and c-webb to run the pick and roll.


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## Raptor Fan 42 (Sep 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>KABI</b>!
> Bill Walton was probably high...


I sure as hell hope so. Mike Bibby is the worst defensive PG in the league. He aint all that great offensively either with the exception of his shooting.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

No, Bibby is having a way better regular season than he had last year.


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## Tactics (Mar 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>KABI</b>!
> Bill Walton was probably high...


Your probably right about that:rotf: , he probably thinks his son will be the best in the NBA, no offense to Walton fans, but I'm not one


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

Say what you want, but Mike was the only one who did anything when it mattered, Webber, Divac, Stojakovic, Christie and all the others wet their pants when it came down to it, Bibby didn't. He's having a better season then last year, but the reg-season doesn't matter, the reg-season doesn't win championships.


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## TmacUpHoesDown (Jun 24, 2002)

he's overrated and kills the kings.


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

The Kings are definitely secretly regretting that huge contract extension that they gave Bibby last summer, no question. They could've gotten this guy for a lot less money. We'll see if he's able to repeat last year's postseason magic. I'm skeptical. He was awfully good, though. Aquaitious is absolutely right, all the other Kings (ESPECIALLY Webber) were scared to death against the Lakers last summer. Bibby nearly bailed them out singlehandedly.

Are the Kings really any worse when Bobby Jackson replaces Mike Bibby out there on the court? What does that tell you? I know what it tells me. I fell in love with Bibby last summer, too, I admit it, but it's time to admit that the guy isn't all that great after all. He was EN FUEGO against the Lakers last summer, but he has since cooled off in a big, big way.

By the way, let's compare Bibby to Jason Williams, here are the 2002-03 stats for each player:

WILLIAMS

39.6 FG%
83.8 FT%
33.4 3Pt%
11.9 points/game
7.9 assists/game
2.3 turnovers/game
2.8 rebounds/game
1.2 steals/game

BIBBY

45.9 FG%
82.0 FT%
42.5 3Pt%
16.2 points/game
5.4 assists/game
2.3 turnovers/game
2.7 rebounds/game
1.2 steals/game

You can actually sort of forgive J-Will's lousy FG%, because nearly half of those FG attempts are three-pointers. Less than 20% of Bibby's FG% attempts are three-pointers. Take a look at each player's ADJUSTED FG% (a more telling stat):

WILLIAMS 47.5%
BIBBY 50.1%

That trade ended up not being nearly as lopsided as we thought it was this time last year, as it turns out. I honestly can't believe it. For a long time, that trade seemed to be one of the all-time lopsided trades, but it doesn't seem so bad now, does it? Bibby still has more upside--he's 2 1/2 years younger than J-Will--but Bibby may be as good as he's ever going to get.


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## allenive21 (Jul 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> Say what you want, but Mike was the only one who did anything when it mattered, Webber, Divac, Stojakovic, Christie and all the others wet their pants when it came down to it, Bibby didn't. He's having a better season then last year, but the reg-season doesn't matter, the reg-season doesn't win championships.


So you're saying that the regular season doesn't matter at all. If the Kings were to just try and walk through the regular season and ended up losing a lot, Bibby wouldn't even be in the playoffs so I really think that the regular season is pretty important. Bibby has to be able to play at the same level consistently before I will recognize him as being one of the top pg's in the league.


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## ghettobryant (Feb 15, 2003)

Bibby sucks...


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## MightyReds2020 (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>robyg1974</b>!
> The Kings are definitely secretly regretting that huge contract extension that they gave Bibby last summer, no question. They could've gotten this guy for a lot less money. We'll see if he's able to repeat last year's postseason magic. I'm skeptical. He was awfully good, though. Aquaitious is absolutely right, all the other Kings (ESPECIALLY Webber) were scared to death against the Lakers last summer. Bibby nearly bailed them out singlehandedly.
> 
> Are the Kings really any worse when Bobby Jackson replaces Mike Bibby out there on the court? What does that tell you? I know what it tells me. I fell in love with Bibby last summer, too, I admit it, but it's time to admit that the guy isn't all that great after all. He was EN FUEGO against the Lakers last summer, but he has since cooled off in a big, big way.
> ...


For a team aiming for championships, it's all about getting a last-piece that will make them the contender. Bibby is THE last-piece to this team instead of J.Will. Individually, he might not be better than J.Will or Bobby Jax, but he's the right kind of player the Kings wanted to run the team. He's a pretty consistent outside shooter, that makes him much more valuable when the other Kings, especially Webber, is double-team down low. He's unselfish and a good passer, so you can expect him to pass the ball the a player who's open. Last year in the playoffs, he also showed he has the uncanny ability to make clutch shots. All of the above makes him deserves his big contract WITH THE KINGS. He's not a leader, granted, but he has great impact on Kings' offense because he runs the team the way a PG supposed to be. He's not flashy and he's extremely calm, so he doesn't really stand-out. He however makes good decisions on where the ball's going to be in each possesion, eventhough it means he gets less touches. Defensively, however, he's average at best. He will have problems going up against the likes of Steve Nash or Jason Kidd, but that's another issue.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

Bibby has built his entire reputation on a 3 week period of outstanding play. If he does not repeat the performance and/or the King's do not win the championship he will slowly hit Austin Croshere status.

Anything less than a tiltle for Sac Town and Bibby's rep will take a hit.

P.S. Shaq was right. If you have never been an All Star you should not be on the Olympic team.


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## Raptor Fan 42 (Sep 20, 2002)

Mike Bibby on his one-time hotstreak = what the Kings need.


Mike Bibby now = Not Enough.

They payed him $80 million because they thought he'd be that hot forever. I don't know if it was hit foot injury, but Bibby was is nowehere near the shooter he was, he's slower, he can't defend a wet paper bag, and he does hurt the Sacramento Kings. Just start Bobby Jackson and ship Bibby off somewhere.


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MightyReds2020</b>!
> ...All of the above makes him deserves his big contract WITH THE KINGS...


The point here is that nobody could've made anywhere near the huge offer for Bibby that the Kings made last summer, and if they had waited until this offseason to re-sign him, again, nobody would've made him an offer much bigger than the MLE.

One of the lessons that teams need to learn in order to enjoy longterm success in this league is that you should never overpay for talent. A player is worth exactly what the market is willing to pay. That's how the free market is supposed to work. Rashard Lewis didn't get a raw deal last summer. The contract he got from the Sonics is exactly what the market was able to pay.

Was anybody going to give Malik Rose much more than the MLE last summer? No. [I don't really think he's even worth the MLE, to be honest. I can't imagine that if three teams offered him the MLE, and that if the Spurs were one of those three teams, that he would've signed with somebody besides the Spurs.] That's why the Spurs should've given him just slightly more than the MLE. Same deal with Bibby.

Some teams understand this, and those are the teams that will be successful over the next 5-6 years. The Pistons understand this. That's why they traded for Rip Hamilton last summer. Stack is going to want to opt out of his contract, he and his agent still think that it's 1999. Trying to get Stack re-signed to a fair deal was and is going to be impossible. When it's all said and done, there will be a lot of bitterness between Stack and the Wiz, you watch. Rip and his agent, I'm pretty sure they understand that the best deal that Rip is going to get is slightly more than the MLE (i.e., a deal starting at around $5.5 mil). At slightly more than the MLE, Rip is a terrific value!

Other teams that understand (or who I THINK understand) how to play the game besides Detroit (i.e., teams to watch over the next 5-6 years):

Denver
Utah
Seattle (that Payton trade was BRILLIANT)
Jerry West's Grizzlies (although he inherited a total mess)
San Antonio (although they definitely overpaid for Malik Rose)

Nobody gets it more than Joe Dumars and Kiki Vandeweghe get it. Those two guys are HANDS DOWN the top two visionaries among all NBA GMs.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Raptor Fan 42</b>!
> I don't know if it was hit foot injury, but Bibby was is nowehere near the shooter he was, he's slower, he can't defend a wet paper bag, and he does hurt the Sacramento Kings.


No but everyone forgets the obvious...Peja was hurt. Bibby just took the shots that Peja normally would have taken. Now that Peja is back is is a much better offensive option, Bibby is back to his normal average self.

In the new financially conservative NBA, J Will is a much better value than Bibby. That is why Bibby was dealt because he was going to be overpriced. While Bibby struggles, J Will has arguably been the best PG in the NBA since the All Star break.


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## robyg1974 (Jul 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> No but everyone forgets the obvious...Peja was hurt. Bibby just took the shots that Peja normally would have taken. Now that Peja is back is is a much better offensive option, Bibby is back to his normal average self.


Interesting theory, I like it!


> In the new financially conservative NBA, J Will is a much better value than Bibby. That is why Bibby was dealt because he was going to be overpriced. While Bibby struggles, J Will has arguably been the best PG in the NBA since the All Star break.


I don't know about J-Will being "the best PG in the NBA since the All-Star break," but he's definitely been as good or better than Bibby, and he's quite a bit cheaper.

Nobody trashed the Grizz for that Bibby-JWill trade more than I did at the time, and after the Western Conference Finals last season, but I have to admit, I was wrong. I didn't know that J-Will had it in him. I'm impressed.

Now the Grizz only have TWO contracts that GOTTA GO: Michael Dickerson and Lorenzen Wright. At least Wright is able to PLAY! Don't be surprised if the Grizz trade Stromile Swift--whose stats are clearly being padded right now so as to inflate his trade value--with Dickerson and/or Wright this summer in exchange for some combination of expiring contracts, cheap young players, and draft picks. Swift may also end up getting tossed in that proposed Lakers-Grizz Shaq trade in order to spice things up for the Lakers.

J-Will is a Grizzly, though. He's a keeper. I'm impressed.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>allenive21</b>!
> 
> So you're saying that the regular season doesn't matter at all. If the Kings were to just try and walk through the regular season and ended up losing a lot, Bibby wouldn't even be in the playoffs so I really think that the regular season is pretty important. Bibby has to be able to play at the same level consistently before I will recognize him as being one of the top pg's in the league.


I never said it "doesn't matter at all". This is what I said:



> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> ...but the reg-season doesn't matter, the reg-season doesn't win championships.





> Originally posted by <b>allenive21</b>!
> 
> If the Kings were to just try and walk through the regular season and ended up losing a lot,


I don't think that a team as talented as the Kings can fail AT ALL to make the playoffs, they got a replacement for every position.





> Originally posted by <b>MemphisX</b>!
> 
> No but everyone forgets the obvious...Peja was hurt. Bibby just took the shots that Peja normally would have taken. Now that Peja is back is is a much better offensive option, Bibby is back to his normal average self.


As robyg1974 said (BTW welcome back robyg), it is an interesting theory, but that is what great players do, they take over the game when they are needed. Who is the first option in clutch on the Spurs? The Wolves? Well the Kings have many, but no one (at that time (playoffs)) wanted to take the game over, so Bibby did. This season he (Bibby) was injured, and when he did play, players like Divac, Stojakovic, Christie, and Clark (and Webber at some part) were healty, how much did his offense go down? He was the 3-4 option on that team, plus everyone can make a pass on that team, all players (on the Kings) are talented of passing, which explains why his assists are down. I mean he can make a great pass, and the guy he passed it too, will make another great pass to the other player.


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## allenive21 (Jul 28, 2002)

Ron Harper played with little intensity and desire during the regular season but once the playoffs hit he looked like he was 22 again. Was Harper considered a great player for this during that time no. Granted that Bibby does put up better stats during the regular season and playoffs, Harper was considered a nobody. Harper's pains and aches would disappear during the playoffs and he would really play good. Only giving 75% during the regular season and a 125% during the playoffs may seem to balance out but really it doesn't. I think that Bibby lacks the heart and desire to play a full out season.


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## aquaitious (Jun 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>allenive21</b>!
> I think that Bibby lacks the heart and desire to play a full out season.


So do the Lakers, look where they are 3 championships.


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## RangerC (Sep 25, 2002)

Bibby might be overpaid, but his contract is the sort of one the Kings can live with. They'll be over the cap in the coming years even if Bibby was making MLE money. Also, Bibby is just 24 - this isn't a Brian Grant or Antonio Davis MAX contract here.

The problem with Bibby was that he received FAR too much credit for the Kings' playoff success. Webber and Divac were the team's playoff MVP's - Bibby just made open jumpshots (and as the rest of the league is finding out, it's easy to get open jumpshots against the Lakers by involving Shaq in PnR situations). Bibby's a solid starter and a good player, but he's no star. He's the team's 3rd option (4th if Vlade has his A game), no less, no more. Once people scale down their expectations of Bibby and see him for what he is - a decent starter on a high profile team, then there's no problem.

Another couple of things to keep in mind with Bibby: 1) The Kings (including Bibby) have had 8 million injury problems and have been out of sync all season. 2) Bibby might just be in a slump - in Dec/Jan he averaged 17 ppg and 6.5 apg and was playing much better defense. It's possible that his true level of play is closer to his Dec/Jan numbers and not his current mediocrity.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

RangerC, good analysis!

I agree on everything but the weight Bibby's contract is going to have on the King's cap situation. Like you I agree that what makes Sac go is the passing of its two post players. Bibbby's contract will not cause a problem for the King's until about the summer of 2005. That is when you will have $52 million invested in (Webber, Bibby, Peja, Christie, and Pollard). Now this is before Hedo is re-signed who I think has decent value in the league. At this time Divac should be a relic and with Webber's ankles who knows. At this time Bibby's contract will be a noose unless (a) Bibby is an elite PG or (b) the King's have won at least one title.

I think the King's overpaid for Bibby, however, they are/were so close to winning a championship there is no way they could not sign him.


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## allenive21 (Jul 28, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>aquaitious</b>!
> 
> 
> So do the Lakers, look where they are 3 championships.


Maybe that's why NBA basketball has reached a point to where it's not as good as it used to be. Guys used to go out and give it there all every night. It's a shame what the leauge has turned into. It's now all about the money, not for the love of the game.


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## King Alley (Mar 19, 2003)

I think Bibby is overratted. Yes he did play good in the playoffs last season but in the regular season he is just an average player. Whenever I watch the Kings play and Bill Walton is commentating hes always talkin bs on how Bibby is one of the top 5 pgs in the nba. :upset:


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

Bibby is overrated but give his some credit. He plays point guard on probably the best passing team in the league. I would agree with Bill Walton because Bill Walton is talking about the traditional values of a point guard. Bibby knows when to contribute and when to step back and let the rest of his teammates do the work. That is more valuable and harder to do than most people think. Him and Nash are similar in the fact that they play offense mostly but they are the heart of their team. Isnt Bibby the heart of the team? Him and Webber? Without him hitting those big shots in last years finals they would not even have come close to beating the Lakers. The rest of the team whimpered and couldnt hit anything. Bibby's stats won't show that he is the best but he is not all about stats, he is all about winning. That's how Bill Walton rates his players, on their value to a winning team. You can't be a top point guard if you're team is losing. A point guard should be judged more on if his teammates are doing well and if the team is winning.


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## "Matt!" (Jul 24, 2002)

So all of this Bibby talk leads to another question...

Who would you take to the Olympics other than him?

Bibby or Iverson?


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## compsciguy78 (Dec 16, 2002)

*in reply to allenive*

Ron Harper was more than a nobody. During the early part of his career he was one of the best defenders in the league and he had the athleticism to rival anyone in the NBA. He was an amazing dunker and scorer and on the ball defender. He had the complete package, except for his shot, but he hit some big shots. Ron Harper was a good player who preferred to be a role player and he should be commended for that.


Look at his stats

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ron_harper/?nav=page


Almost 14,000 career points. By saying that Ron Harper was a nobody you are showing that you know nothing about basketball. That is an absolute stupid statement.


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## MemphisX (Sep 11, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Matt85163</b>!
> So all of this Bibby talk leads to another question...
> 
> Who would you take to the Olympics other than him?
> ...


Iverson, Marbury, or Francis get called before his name even comes up.


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## c_dog (Sep 15, 2002)

Actually, for the Olympics, you would want someone like Kidd or Payton. Doesn't matter how old Payton is, he is a better play maker than starbury or francis.


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