# A Call for MAYO.



## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

With the trade deadline coming in Feb and a real legit need for an upgrade at the SG position I really think the Bulls should make a run at OJ Mayo for the starting 2 guard spot. He is rotting away in Memphis and his stats have plummeted, hes only averaging 12 ppg and is having a bad year but I think hes tired of that place and if he comes to Chicago and play's next to a guy like Rose I think Mayo could live up to some of his potential again. 

Hes making a reasonable amount of money, I really think he fits everything the Bulls would want out their 2 guard.


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

What do we have to give up? They would at least ask for Gibson and multiple picks. Are we willing to do that?


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

You have to give something up to get him... any sense of what that would be?

on edit: PD's post made mine pointless... doh.

I don't think I'd be willing to give up Gibson... frontcourt depth is incredibly important, and it is nice to have a well-rounded guy like Taj coming off the bench. I think we could get by starting Ronnie Brewer and be just fine.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Problem is, what do we trade? 

I think the 2g position isn't as big of a problem as we sometimes make it out to be. I just don't get how we are still giving bogans token starting minutes. Korver and Brewer have both played excellent at times in their own way. If it was up to me I would give both Korver and Brewer a much bigger role on the wing and call it a day.

edit: I started writing this 20 minutes ago, forgot about it then remembered and posted it. Low and behold Dornado and PD asked the same question. lol.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

I'm all for it. Mayo brings the talent and skills we need. He can hit the 3-ball, brings the secondary ballhandling/playmaking ability we need to help Rose out, and should be an OK defender in the right system.

My concerns are:

- Giving up a key piece to get him
- Possibly bad fit, e.g,. is he the next Larry Hughes?
- He'll be up for an extension this summer and we may end up overpaying, or losing him altogether


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Yeah that's the other thing. We already have long-term commitments to everyone of importance on this team with the exception of Rose and Taj. We know Rose will get re-signed (at least he better). I'm hoping Taj will as well, but that is a lot more questionable. So would we really be willing to offer Mayo the (at least) 10 mil per contract he will require? Probably not. If it's Taj and picks then I'm listening, but that also leaves us with a glut of wings and no bigs. Bad balance.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Let's see how much more Mayo's stock plummets so that the Bulls can buy low, though I have a feeling that Heisley will want Hollins to start Mayo around the trading deadline to showcase him.

From Memphis' perspective, they really have no glaring weaknesses but no overwhelming strengths, either. I'd say backup SF is their largest weakness and maybe backup PG. The Grizzlies would probably ask for either the Charlotte pick or a combination of the Bulls first rounder, one of their second rounders, and/or Bogans or Johnson.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> With the trade deadline coming in Feb and a real legit need for an upgrade at the SG position I really think the Bulls should make a run at OJ Mayo for the starting 2 guard spot. He is rotting away in Memphis and his stats have plummeted, hes only averaging 12 ppg and is having a bad year but I think hes tired of that place and if he comes to Chicago and play's next to a guy like Rose I think Mayo could live up to some of his potential again.
> 
> Hes making a reasonable amount of money, I really think he fits everything the Bulls would want out their 2 guard.


Great idea and I believe we have a perfect trading chip, but Memphis had repeatable turn down the deal because of his ridiculous contract.


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## garnett (May 13, 2003)

Would they want Brewer back? It really shouldn't take too much to get someone that's rotting on the bench because if they valued him that much he'd be playing.


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## calabreseboy (Nov 17, 2004)

Bulls need a decent SG so bad. Brewer is solid offensively but doesn't contribute enough, and Bogans is just absolutely terrible on offense, but can bang it up on defense. Both are bench players and neither should be starting.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Oh GOD I would trade Gibson for Mayo in a SECOND!

I dont know what games you are watching casey but SG is a HUGE NEED. Brewer is playing the role of the defensive specialist off the bench very well but the guy cant hit a 3, misses a ton of open jumpers and we all know what BOOOGANS has done at the position. What does Memphis do? They aren't going to pay Mayo big time money, they aren't going to attract good free agents, why not free up some cap space... We are talking about a team that almost lost their #1 pick because they did not want to pay him a couple hundred thousand more.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Memphis has no real incentive to trade Mayo for nothing. In fact they will probably be able to either extend him for a reasonable price this offseason or work out an S&T where they get something worthwhile in return. You don't drive your car in a demolition derby right before you sell it and you don't trade players when they have no market value.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Oh GOD I would trade Gibson for Mayo in a SECOND!
> 
> I dont know what games you are watching casey but SG is a HUGE NEED. Brewer is playing the role of the defensive specialist off the bench very well but the guy cant hit a 3, misses a ton of open jumpers and we all know what BOOOGANS has done at the position. What does Memphis do? They aren't going to pay Mayo big time money, they aren't going to attract good free agents, why not free up some cap space... We are talking about a team that almost lost their #1 pick because they did not want to pay him a couple hundred thousand more.


See I think Brewer and Korver combine to give us about average 2g minutes. Actually I think Korver is doing a pretty solid job of being a poor mans ray allen, and brewer is getting closer to his form from a couple years ago. The problem is that we continue to give Bogans minutes which is becoming more and more ridiculous. If we just give his minutes to Brewer and Korver we will be fine. And to be honest Korver's D has been a pleasant surprise. You can;t have an all-star at every position


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## BullFan16 (Jun 2, 2003)

im sure the charlotte pick, bulls first and james johnson could get him...i would be up for that...draft picks will be irrelevant... "stud/impact" players will be hard to find at the end of the first with the bulls picks...id rather have a legitimate shooter like oj than the char pick, a low first, and james "dalibor caliber bust" johnson


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

caseyrh said:


> See I think Brewer and Korver combine to give us about average 2g minutes. Actually I think Korver is doing a pretty solid job of being a poor mans ray allen, and brewer is getting closer to his form from a couple years ago. The problem is that we continue to give Bogans minutes which is becoming more and more ridiculous. If we just give his minutes to Brewer and Korver we will be fine. And to be honest Korver's D has been a pleasant surprise. You can;t have an all-star at every position


Well you need at least 2 all-star caliber players on a title contending starting lineup, Rose is one of them, Noah was earlier in the season but hes starting to come back down to earth a bit especially on defense, so Boozer is our only other all star caliber player. Mayo is not an allstar yet so I dont know why you make a reference like I'm asking for all stars at every position. Depending on Brewer and Korver to play like this ALL SEASON long is not recommended, we need a SG who can score 20-30 once in while and I know Mayo can do that, he can defend and would probably become the teams second best ball handler as soon as he steps foot in the UC. 

Mayo is a perfect fit.


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## yodurk (Sep 4, 2002)

I don't see Mayo as anything close to an all-star, but I would put him right there on Deng's level in terms of impact; a very good starter who makes you better, though won't carry you on a nightly basis.

What would I give up for Mayo? 

Hard question. Guess I'd trade Taj Gibson as the centerpiece. I like Gibson alot. He's cheap, but will still give you double-doubles regularly when given the minutes, and is a very good defender. Alternatively, they can take the Charlotte pick, which has value. I'm NOT giving up both. On top of one of those, send them James Johnson and a 2nd rounder. 

I hesitate on Gibson, but now that I know Asik isn't a complete stiff and might actually be our best interior defender, I think Gibson is somewhat expendable. For a line-up with very little holes in Rose, Mayo, Deng, Boozer, Noah...with Watson, Korver, Brewer, Asik off the bench...that's a solid team that might challenge for the East title.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

We really don't need a great SG on this team. It's the least important position on this team. I really don't see the point of getting Mayo. We already have Derrick Rose everything else is gravy at that point. PF, C, and depth is what we really need.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

someone said:


> We really don't need a great SG on this team. It's the least important position on this team. I really don't see the point of getting Mayo. We already have Derrick Rose everything else is gravy at that point. PF, C, and depth is what we really need.


The Bulls aren't winning easy games, Rose is logging heavy minutes and unless we get some scoring at the 2 spot hes going to wear down as the season continues. 

Just because the Bulls have a winning record it does not mean that we should stop looking at way's at improving our team and finding players that could give our starters some well deserved time off the court. 

Depth at the 4 is fine, I think Taj does a solid job and Deng can play that spot if needed. 

We are getting by so far with no real good backup 5 but again reallying on Noah for 35-40 minutes a night is just asking for trouble come April.

Continuing without any real firepower at the 2 is also recipe for trouble. What if Rose gets injured for a week or so, the Bulls dont have anything consistent at the 2 or 1.


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## someone (Jul 17, 2007)

thebizkit69u said:


> The Bulls aren't winning easy games, Rose is logging heavy minutes and unless we get some scoring at the 2 spot hes going to wear down as the season continues.
> 
> Just because the Bulls have a winning record it does not mean that we should stop looking at way's at improving our team and finding players that could give our starters some well deserved time off the court.
> 
> ...


Like I said, SG is not very important. Rose is the star. Defense and decent 3's from the SG is all we really need. And yes we have that, and a little bit more at SG from Brewer. But the problem is that Brewer is still not starting at this point.

Mayo is really just going to take the ball away from Rose at this point. We don't need Mayo to control the ball about 50% at this point. Now I would agree with you that we do need a better backup point but the jury is still out on Watson at this juncture.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> The Bulls aren't winning easy games,



Minnesota begs to differ.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

jnrjr79 said:


> Minnesota begs to differ.


Yeah this was probably their first real easy win so far in the season.

OMG Kevin Love is the real damn deal.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> The Bulls aren't winning easy games, Rose is logging heavy minutes and unless we get some scoring at the 2 spot hes going to wear down as the season continues.
> 
> Just because the Bulls have a winning record it does not mean that we should stop looking at way's at improving our team and finding players that could give our starters some well deserved time off the court.
> 
> ...


I was bringing exactly the same concern on several occasions, including our salary cap situation after signing Rose. Bulls four starters will cost around $60M and knowing JR’s greed I am almost convinced that we will stick with Bogans ($1.6M) for at least four more years. In addition to that, all bench players who makes beyond $2M year will force to leave or traded for expiring contracts.

IMO, a present team:


Has no future 
Has no durability to survive an entire season 
Can not successfully play against “bigger” opponents,
 particular during playoff battles

Difference in ages between Boozer and Rose, plus ridiculous Deng’s contract make me believe that JR are not planning to build a championship team for another five year.

The only good thing I see right now, is that finally we have an elite PG and decent C.
I like Boozer too, but something telling me that he will not be a member of championship team in imminent Rose’s era.

Pax did build a commercially appealing team …but definitely not a championship caliber type. So calling this team an awesome is very much ridiculous, at least.


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## Marcus13 (Jul 17, 2002)

If you can get him for Korver or Brewer & filler, then by all means do it. I don't think I'd give up any other rotation player though besides Korver, Brewer, Watson, or Bogans.

They can take any combo of those two though


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

I would not trade Brewer or Korver because they fill their roles perfectly and on a title contending team you need a 3 point sharpshooter off the bench and a defensive guard who can at times score. 

I would give up Luol Deng though, his role has pretty much is now that of a spot shooter. Its fine and at times he does play solid defense but for the most part he is just not living up to the contract, if we can move him for Mayo I do think its an upgrade on the court and a definite plus for the future.

But I also think if we got Mayo, Deng would be the perfect 4th option, probably his true and most effective role.


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## Dornado (May 26, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> I would not trade Brewer or Korver because they fill their roles perfectly and on a title contending team you need a 3 point sharpshooter off the bench and a defensive guard who can at times score.
> 
> I would give up Luol Deng though, his role has pretty much is now that of a spot shooter. Its fine and at times he does play solid defense but for the most part he is just not living up to the contract, if we can move him for Mayo I do think its an upgrade on the court and a definite plus for the future.
> 
> But I also think if we got Mayo, Deng would be the perfect 4th option, probably his true and most effective role.


I fail to see how bringing in Mayo for Deng solves anything... other than taking a slight downgrade in production and opening up a different hole in the starting lineup.

Mayo is obviously a better ball handler than Deng, but that's about the only thing he does at a higher level than Luol. Deng is only two years older than Mayo... and I'll take the 6'9" guy with a few extra years over the 6'4" SG.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> I would not trade Brewer or Korver because they fill their roles perfectly and on a title contending team you need a 3 point sharpshooter off the bench and a defensive guard who can at times score.
> 
> I would give up Luol Deng though, his role has pretty much is now that of a spot shooter. Its fine and at times he does play solid defense but for the most part he is just not living up to the contract, if we can move him for Mayo I do think its an upgrade on the court and a definite plus for the future.
> 
> But I also think if we got Mayo, Deng would be the perfect 4th option, probably his true and most effective role.



I just want to add that JR will not allow to have all above mentioned names together, someone has to go and IMO it should be Deng and Brewer. In today’s market, an average or even above average defense specialist could be “purchased” for around 
$3M/year.

So, I will trade Deng and Brewer for Mayo in a blink of the eye, although I will miss heated discussion with Casey and his vigorous and “powerful” supporters on subject of Deng and his contract.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Bulls are working to get Mayo. You guys will get all the details soon enough.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Some people prefer trading a slightly overpaid, prototypical jack-of-all-trades SF for an undersized SG who's been recently benched but has value because he's still on a rookie contract.

I personally would trade Taj for OJ, but Taj has much more value than OJ, so I'd ask for a draft pick as well or even Thabeet.


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## PD (Sep 10, 2004)

TwinkieTowers said:


> Some people prefer trading a slightly overpaid, prototypical jack-of-all-trades SF for an undersized SG who's been recently benched but has value because he's still on a rookie contract.
> 
> I personally would trade Taj for OJ, but Taj has much more value than OJ, so I'd ask for a draft pick as well or even Thabeet.


What about Brewer and a pick for OJ. It would not be beneficial to fill one hole and create the other. Trading away Taj, the Bulls would be looking for a backup PF.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

PD said:


> What about Brewer and a pick for OJ. It would not be beneficial to fill one hole and create the other. Trading away Taj, the Bulls would be looking for a backup PF.


Bulls were adequate for 15 games without a backup PF. I'd use Deng for small lineups and possibly put Joakim there for a spell and pair him with Asik or Thabeet. Kurt Thomas is still alive, I believe.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> I would not trade Brewer or Korver because they fill their roles perfectly and on a title contending team you need a 3 point sharpshooter off the bench and a defensive guard who can at times score.
> 
> I would give up Luol Deng though, his role has pretty much is now that of a spot shooter. Its fine and at times he does play solid defense but for the most part he is just not living up to the contract, if we can move him for Mayo I do think its an upgrade on the court and a definite plus for the future.


We all know where I stand on this issue but...

You say his role now is pretty much that of a spot shooter. I would say that is semi accurate for offense but it is important to note that he is also an excellent defender and historically a very good rebounder. (rebounding is down for him a bit this year but the team is doing excellent and I am sure he plays a big role in that). You cant just dismiss rebounding and downplay his defense in order to attempt to devalue him.


And as for his shooting... since he has been pushed to the third option on our team with the return of Boozer. Deng's shooting has been terrific. He is averaging 15 ppg on 50% fg shooting and 53% 3pt shooting. And those numbers look even better if you throw out the first 2 games of boozers return (when he was rusty, didn't play much, and didn't produce).

For so long we have wanted a 2g that is a third option who is a very good shooter and plays very good defense. Now that Deng is doing that from the sf position you want to trade him? I don't get it.

With Rose and Boozer as an excellent top 2 options, how many ppg are you looking for out of our third option? 15 not good enough?


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

It's looking like Gibson has to be involved in any Mayo deal.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

I think many of us are looking for a Hinrich replacement, but I wouldn't offer Deng.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

Yep…and not just only Kirk. I believe Gordon, Miller and Salmons were very much valuable to this team too .


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

caseyrh said:


> You say his role now is pretty much that of a spot shooter. I would say that is semi accurate for offense but it is important to note that he is also an excellent defender and historically a very good rebounder. (rebounding is down for him a bit this year but the team is doing excellent and I am sure he plays a big role in that). You cant just dismiss rebounding and downplay his defense in order to attempt to devalue him.


Excellent would not be the word to describe him defensively, nobody is ever going to put him up for 3rd team all defense. Like I said hes solid at times defensively against some players in the league but average to below average against quicker more physical players. 

Honestly hes devalued himself, he doesn't need my help. 




> And as for his shooting... since he has been pushed to the third option on our team with the return of Boozer. Deng's shooting has been terrific. He is averaging 15 ppg on 50% fg shooting and 53% 3pt shooting. And those numbers look even better if you throw out the first 2 games of boozers return (when he was rusty, didn't play much, and didn't produce).


So we should be happy that hes performing better with less responsibilities and pressure?

Obviously hes playing better now that Boozer is starting but it's still hard to overlook that when needed Deng disappears. 



> For so long we have wanted a 2g that is a third option who is a very good shooter and plays very good defense. Now that Deng is doing that from the sf position you want to trade him? I don't get it.


First of all 5 game's doesn't all of a sudden make him a very good shooter and he plays decent and at times good defense not VERY good defense. 



> With Rose and Boozer as an excellent top 2 options, how many ppg are you looking for out of our third option? 15 not good enough?


I like how you turn this into another defend Deng thread, I also like how you just dismiss that at the end of my post I said Deng would be a fantastic #4 option. 

But to answer your question, come playoff time I don't think what Deng brings to the team is good enough for us to win a title. 

This is more a thread about improving our 2 guard situation, not some crusade against Deng.

On a side note, there is now talk of a possible Mayo to the Knicks deal.


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## Good Hope (Nov 27, 2002)

P to the Wee said:


> Bulls are working to get Mayo. You guys will get all the details soon enough.


Tell me more! (Au francais!)


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## Good Hope (Nov 27, 2002)

P to the Wee said:


> It's looking like Gibson has to be involved in any Mayo deal.


That would hurt.

Is Mayo worth it?


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

Good Hope said:


> Tell me more! (Au francais!)


Rumorpress will have the details soon enough


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

Good Hope said:


> That would hurt.
> 
> Is Mayo worth it?


It might not hurt too much, I think Taj is hurt or his game has just not improved because he has sucked the last 5 games and has slowed down on the court.

Mayo is a solid team player, he has not bitched or moaned about being on the bench in Memphis but acknowledged that it could hurt him financially, hes a solid teamate and I dont think hes a bad guy off the court so he fits the image of the squeaky clean Bulls.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Excellent would not be the word to describe him defensively, nobody is ever going to put him up for 3rd team all defense. Like I said hes solid at times defensively against some players in the league but average to below average against quicker more physical players.
> 
> Honestly hes devalued himself, he doesn't need my help.


I think third team all defense is right for him. Whether or not people would vote him in it is another issue. The voting for all defensive teams is ridiculous, it's basically the best offensive players who play d, with a couple defensive specialists thrown in. 


> So we should be happy that hes performing better with less responsibilities and pressure?


What? In a small sample this year as our second option he was dropping close to 20 a night, but wasn't shooting particularly good. Last year however he scored 18 ppg on 47% fg. 

But regardless he is our _third option_ isn't a good thing that he fits that role excellently? Or would you rather bring in someone who needs to be a first option to be effective, but has proven to be ineffective as a third option? 
Deng fills an important role on this team perfectly. But you want to trade him _because_ he fits the required role perfectly. I don't get it.


> Obviously hes playing better now that Boozer is starting


Uhhh yeah that's the point...


> but it's still hard to overlook that when needed Deng disappears.


Maybe in your anti-deng world he disappeared, but in reality he scored a lot of points, logged the most minutes on the team, played great D, and played a big role in us having the best start to a season since Jordan left.




> First of all 5 game's doesn't all of a sudden make him a very good shooter and he plays decent and at times good defense not VERY good defense.


5 games? He has been playing well all season but simply shooting _better _ since Boozer has played. Which is actually all of December, I believe 8 games.

But since you brought it up the last 5 games Deng is averaging 16 and 6 on 57% fg shooting and 50% 3pt shooting.


> I like how you turn this into another defend Deng thread,


I was only defending Dengs role on this team against you who decided to come in here and slam him. It is called offering my opinion on how this team should be put together in a thread based on how to put this team together. I believe we have a excellent third option here already so I am not interested in trading for a shorter first option that may or may not learn how to fit the role of third option where he doesn't get the ball so much.



> I also like how you just dismiss that at the end of my post I said Deng would be a fantastic #4 option.


Yeah obviously he would make a fantastic fourth option. That's why it got ignored...




> But to answer your question, come playoff time I don't think what Deng brings to the team is good enough for us to win a title.


Okay. Fortunately for us it is working really well right now. So you might _think_ it won't work in the future but_ I_ don't think your opinion is based on anything.



> This is more a thread about improving our 2 guard situation, not some crusade against Deng.


Improving our 2g position by removing our sf...


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

I am reluctant to make a major change to a young team that is currently playing great basketball. Right now we are clearly one of the best teams in the NBA. We still have the hardest Strength of Schedule in the NBA and are 15-8.


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## mvP to the Wee (Jul 14, 2007)

I'd deal Gibson for Mayo. Gibson is a great player, but our goal is to win a championship and if Boozer is out, no matter how good Gibson is, we won't be winning a championship with him as the starting PF. Bench players will always be available, quality starters won't.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

The fact that Deng's three point shooting spaces the floor, his cutting ability can collapse the paint (creating open threes), and that he can guard three positions effectively makes him very valuable. Mayo's only advantages are his ballhandling and his rookie contract.

The grass is always greener...


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

caseyrh said:


> What? In a small sample this year as our second option he was dropping close to 20 a night, but wasn't shooting particularly good. Last year however he scored 18 ppg on 47% fg.


You take away his one 40 point anomaly to start November he was like a 19 ppg scorer shooting 40%, had some of his worse dribbling showings in his career and at times just disappeared. 



> But regardless he is our _third option_ isn't a good thing that he fits that role excellently? Or would you rather bring in someone who needs to be a first option to be effective, but has proven to be ineffective as a third option?
> Deng fills an important role on this team perfectly. But you want to trade him _because_ he fits the required role perfectly. I don't get it.


I do think he fits the 4th option better but you look past the money,I dont. For what hes being paid hes not a good option. In the long run he will hurt them more than he will help them.



> Uhhh yeah that's the point...


THE POINT IS he was not signed to be our #3 freaking option! HE was signed to be one of our corner stone pieces and to score. He has turned into a very expensive role player on a team that is 1 piece away from being a title winner, he has never shown the ability to be that extra piece to get us over the hump and the better this team has gotten the smaller his role is becoming. If he was making 6 million a year I would say hes a great piece, but he will be making 14 million soon lol, thats just madness. 




> Maybe in your anti-deng world he disappeared, but in reality he scored a lot of points, logged the most minutes on the team, played great D, and played a big role in us having the best start to a season since Jordan left.


lol I think a certain #1 has had more to do with this than anyone else on the team... infact Deng is probably behind Noah as well. 



> 5 games? He has been playing well all season but simply shooting _better _ since Boozer has played. Which is actually all of December, I believe 8 games.


No he has not been playing well all season, heck if Stacy King has said negative things about Deng you know Deng is just having an average year. 



> But since you brought it up the last 5 games Deng is averaging 16 and 6 on 57% fg shooting and 50% 3pt shooting.


Like I said, less responsibility, less defensive pressure, less ballhandling responsibilities and now a 3rd option, 4th when Kyle Korver is on the court. Start the parade, Deng has arrived!



> I was only defending Dengs role on this team against you who decided to come in here and slam him. It is called offering my opinion on how this team should be put together in a thread based on how to put this team together. I believe we have a excellent third option here already so I am not interested in trading for a shorter first option that may or may not learn how to fit the role of third option where he doesn't get the ball so much.


Mayo has never been a #1 option so I dont know what you are talking about. So are you telling me OJ Mayo cant do what Luol Deng is doing? lol, you telling me OJ Mayo cant camp out on the 3 point line, let Rose do all the work and then hit a wide open jumper? You're telling me that OJ Mayo cant finish at the basket better than Deng, are you telling me that OJ Mayo cant dribble the ball off his foot everytime he has the ball like Deng? Are you telling me that OJ Mayo a kid who averaged 18 ppg as a rookie cant come close to Deng's 19 ppg this season?



> Okay. Fortunately for us it is working really well right now. So you might _think_ it won't work in the future but_ I_ don't think your opinion is based on anything.
> 
> 
> Improving our 2g position by removing our sf...


You act like we are playing better because of Deng, we are playing better because we are GOING AWAY from Deng.


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## jnrjr79 (Apr 18, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> You take away his one 40 point anomaly to start November he was like a 19 ppg scorer shooting 40%, had some of his worse dribbling showings in his career and at times just disappeared.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Why do you care whether each player's salary on the team corresponds exactly with whether they are the #2, 3, or 4 option? Is it important that the 12th guy make the 12th most money? This all just seems irrational.

Deng is fine for the role we need him for. He might make more money than you'd ideally pay for that role. C'est la vie. 

I thought the end result (wins and losses) were what mattered. Was I wrong?


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Basically you don't think Deng is good, I do. You defend it by taking away his 40 point game, things stacey King might have said, and your opinions. Cool. If you wait long enough I'm sure he will have a bad game and then you can go off again. But at least lets wait for that. Deal? No point in blasting the dude when he is doing everything the team is asking of him and currently doing it very efficiently. And the team is winning a lot of games.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

jnrjr79 said:


> Why do you care whether each player's salary on the team corresponds exactly with whether they are the #2, 3, or 4 option? Is it important that the 12th guy make the 12th most money? This all just seems irrational.
> 
> Deng is fine for the role we need him for. He might make more money than you'd ideally pay for that role. C'est la vie.
> 
> I thought the end result (wins and losses) were what mattered. Was I wrong?


Exactly


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

P to the Wee said:


> I'd deal Gibson for Mayo. Gibson is a great player, but our goal is to win a championship and if Boozer is out, no matter how good Gibson is, we won't be winning a championship with him as the starting PF. Bench players will always be available, quality starters won't.


I kind of agree with this. But I am also pretty sure that dealing Gibson for Mayo makes us worse right now.

I think we need more big man depth even now. The one area we certainly don't need more of is shooting guards. We might need a better one but not _more_. So trading our only good backup big (asik might get there but he's not yet) for a 2g that isn't playing particularly well this season is a move that I'm pretty sure makes us worse this season. 

Next year however we could then use MLE money on a big maybe draft another big or 2 and possibly even make a trade like Brewer and Watson for an upgrade at backup pg. Then next years team might benefit tremendously from this deal... if MAyo improves.

But if Mayo does get back to his rookie form then can we afford to resign him?

So ultimately I can see both sides of the argument here but personally I think it makes more sense to stand pat right now.


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## TwinkieTowers (Jul 16, 2002)

Just to clear things up:

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Luol%20Deng

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=O.J.%20Mayo

Mayo is still getting acclimated to being a third option and as no longer being a primary ball handler; Conley's steady improvement as a PG and the addition of Randolph has changed Mayo's role on offense to pretty much a spot-up shooter. 

Just look at his increased assisted FG percentage, currently at 61.5%. His at-the-rim assisted FG percentage has also dramatically increased from his rookie season, when he was asked to be a combo guard.

Deng is already doing what Hollins is asking Mayo to do; plus, he's five inches taller, has a seven inch longer wingspan, and has as much versatility as anyone in NBA on both ends. It would be silly to give up Deng in order to get Mayo.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

TwinkieTowers said:


> Just to clear things up:
> 
> http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Luol%20Deng
> 
> ...


Great post.
Its always nice to look at things impartially.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

caseyrh said:


> Basically you don't think Deng is good, I do.


Wrong, I think Deng is a good player, you think hes a GREAT player,Big difference.



> You defend it by taking away his 40 point game, things stacey King might have said, and your opinions. Cool. If you wait long enough I'm sure he will have a bad game and then you can go off again. But at least lets wait for that. Deal? No point in blasting the dude when he is doing everything the team is asking of him and currently doing it very efficiently. And the team is winning a lot of games.


All I said was I would trade Deng for Mayo and you hijacked the thread again just to turn it into another defend Deng thread. 

I said this about Deng


> I would give up Luol Deng though, his role has pretty much is now that of a spot shooter. Its fine and at times he does play solid defense but for the most part he is just not living up to the contract, if we can move him for Mayo I do think its an upgrade on the court and a definite plus for the future.
> 
> But I also think if we got Mayo, Deng would be the perfect 4th option, probably his true and most effective role.


I dont know why this would get you so worked up but a word of advice, I remember a certain poster on here named Bullhitter who went out of his way to defend Tyrus Thomas, Vinny and say that Derrick Rose will never be a legit #1 option, he is probably killed himself once Tyrus was traded and Vinny fired, dont go down that road Case.

If you like Deng thats fine and dandy but I'm looking at the big picture scenario here.

Do you really think the Bulls can win a championship with Boogans as the starting 2 guard and CJ Watson as your backup 1? 

I dont.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

jnrjr79 said:


> Why do you care whether each player's salary on the team corresponds exactly with whether they are the #2, 3, or 4 option? Is it important that the 12th guy make the 12th most money? This all just seems irrational.
> 
> Deng is fine for the role we need him for. He might make more money than you'd ideally pay for that role. C'est la vie.
> 
> I thought the end result (wins and losses) were what mattered. Was I wrong?


In the long run Deng's contract will keep the Bulls from improving the roster and winning a title. 

As constructed and with what 1 million left in the salary cap, the Bulls aren't winning a title this year.

Next year still no money, Deng's contact goes up a million.

The year after that you have some decisions with Kyle Korver, Brewer and Watson but you also are probably going to give Rose a Max deal almost eliminating whatever cap space you had, oh and Deng's contract goes up another Million.

The year after that you have 30-40 million just for Rose, Noah and Boozer alone! Oh and Deng's contract goes up another million to 14.2 million! 

His contract will need to be moved for us to compete for a title. Nothing against him as a player but when its all said and done he could be our version of Peja Stojakovic.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

thebizkit69u said:


> Wrong, I think Deng is a good player, you think hes a GREAT player,Big difference.


I'm glad that you now think he is a good player. For the few months or so you have been claiming he is an average player. Personally I do not think Deng is a "great" player I think he is a well above average player and a great _fit_. 




> All I said was I would trade Deng for Mayo and you hijacked the thread again just to turn it into another defend Deng thread.


No what I did is give my two cents on why we shouldn't trade Deng for Mayo. Perfectly reasonable response considering the subject matter.



> I dont know why this would get you so worked up but a word of advice, I remember a certain poster on here named Bullhitter who went out of his way to defend Tyrus Thomas, Vinny and say that Derrick Rose will never be a legit #1 option, he is probably killed himself once Tyrus was traded and Vinny fired, dont go down that road Case.


He also went out of his way to slam the bulls and how many bad decisions they make. Something I disagreed with vehemently. Now look at the situation we are in. We have a very good young team that is one of the best in the NBA. I fail to see how me supporting the Bulls and their decisions is similar to Bullhitters constant complaining of how stupid the bulls are. I do however see the comparison of Bullhitter with some of the other armchair gms on here...



> If you like Deng thats fine and dandy but I'm looking at the big picture scenario here.


So am i.25 year old 6'9 defenders that can hit the three ball and slash are a pretty rare commodity. I don't like trading them for 6'4 spot up shooters that are currently not playing on a terrible team.


> Do you really think the Bulls can win a championship with Boogans as the starting 2 guard and CJ Watson as your backup 1?


I mean I have never been a big fan of either of those players. Nor do I think they are the long term solution for this team. However I don't see how that means we should trade our long term solution at sf...

Bogans isn't even a top 2 sg on this roster anyways so I'm not sure why his name is mentioned. It should be Korver and Brewer that you complain about sice they are getting the majority of minutes there. Personally I think Bogans needs to go to the bench and Brewer and Korver need more time.

As for the championship I think we have a much better chance with Deng in the lineup then Mayo. But their contracts don't match so I am not even sure why his name is being mentioned here.


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## Tragedy (Dec 9, 2002)

Hey, Casey.

We're looking for you here:

http://www.basketballforum.com/nba-forum/447806-amare-better-than-david-lee-10.html

We've missed you


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

caseyrh said:


> He also went out of his way to slam the bulls and how many bad decisions they make. Something I disagreed with vehemently. Now look at the situation we are in. We have a very good young team that is one of the best in the NBA. I fail to see how me supporting the Bulls and their decisions is similar to Bullhitters constant complaining of how stupid the bulls are. I do however see the comparison of Bullhitter with some of the other armchair gms on here...


His borderline psychotic defense of Vinny and Tyrus kinda remind me of how you get with Deng, you are no where near him but you also have take a step back not defend Deng all the time, I dont fully disagree with your statements and opinions on Deng, after taking a step back I can see that your arguments for him are fair but our main fundamental difference is that you look past the money, I just cant. 



> So am i.25 year old 6'9 defenders that can hit the three ball and slash are a pretty rare commodity. I don't like trading them for 6'4 spot up shooters that are currently not playing on a terrible team.


Mayo is having a bad season, but Mayo is more than just a spot up shooter, you know that. He can finish better than Deng, he can shoot and most importantly we need another ballhandler when Rose is not on the court, he is light years better than CJ Watson who has been just atrocious this season.



> I mean I have never been a big fan of either of those players. Nor do I think they are the long term solution for this team. However I don't see how that means we should trade our long term solution at sf...


The only reason hes our long term solution is because hes locked into that massive contract, Pax would trade Deng in a heartbeat. 



> Bogans isn't even a top 2 sg on this roster anyways so I'm not sure why his name is mentioned.


Umm because hes our starter. Korver and Brewer are doing what they where brought here to do, come off the bench.


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## Bulls96 (Jun 25, 2003)

I am 100% behind *thebizkit69u* for above mentioned trade. IMO, he brought an excellent supporting arguments.



thebizkit69u said:


> ...The year after that you have 30-40 million just for Rose, Noah and Boozer alone! Oh and Deng's contract goes up another million to 14.2 millions...


I already have stated that many times before, that combined *salary for the four above mentioned starters alone, will be close to $60M/year*. So, JR will apply for stimulus package or commit a suicide...there are no third option 

I also decided to bring the following comments that perfectly explained our point of view (first time it was addressed to Casey a few months ago, but apparently we have to do again and again and again):



Da Grinch said:


> ... everyone has roles to perform in , Rose's role is to be the star, deng is who he is and there is nothing wrong with that , but on a team that demands profitability before winning the resources are scarce at times and deng's salary which shouldn't be a problem for the most profitable team in the nba is an issue, instead of an 8 million dollar player now the bulls may only spend 4 or 5 mil. and quality on another roster spot is compromised because of spending limits , I really dont have a problem with how much deng makes , more power to him , but on the bulls he really doesn't produce at his income level and ownership has shown they wont absorb the blow so there will be less spending elsewhere to make for it...its a problem i've had with the bulls for quite some time, unfortunately deng bears the brunt of it because every other night i see him under performing according to his pay...he makes more than noah who is already better than him, if i had my druthers they'd pay every1...but they wont so some players will be dealt for the bulls bottom line and its been proven time and time again.


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## caseyrh (Jun 10, 2003)

Bulls96 said:


> I am 100% behind *thebizkit69u* for above mentioned trade. IMO, he brought an excellent supporting arguments.


Just to clarify, what is the trade that you 100% support? If it's Deng for Mayo then I would like to let you know that it 100% does not work. So come up with a trade that works and lets see who supports it. Otherwise what's the point in supporting trades that are not allowed by the league?


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

> So come up with a trade that works and lets see who supports it. Otherwise what's the point in supporting trades that are not allowed by the league?


Just for an example

Deng for

OJ Mayo
Hamed Haddadi
DeMarre Carroll
and Tony Allen works.

OJ Mayo
Carroll
and Thabeet also works.


Obviously there would be additions from the Bulls side, draft picks and maybe some cash but its a possibility. I dont know how high Memphis is on Thabeet but hes looked like an absolute bust so far, why Memphis would want Deng, well hes locked up for more years. The Grizz will get a ton of relief once Randolph goes away next season but who in reality will sign with Memphis as a free agent? Deng at least gives them some stability for a few more years.

There are also plenty more options if we decided to trade Taj instead. Easier to pull off.


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## seifer0406 (Jun 8, 2003)

I thought Marko Jaric and his 7 mil contract is still on the books for the Grizz.


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## thebizkit69u (Feb 12, 2003)

seifer0406 said:


> I thought Marko Jaric and his 7 mil contract is still on the books for the Grizz.


I dont know if they bought out his contract or not or if there is some sort of cap hold.


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