# Trade Hinrich and Antonio Davis



## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

Kirk Hinrich and Antonio Davis for Antonie Walker an expiring contract Our team salary after qualifying offers to Curry and Chandler would be aproximately 24.1 million giving us an oppurtunity to sign these swingmen and talented yougn players.

Ray Allen
Michael Redd
Latrell Spreewell
Larry Hughes
Glenn Robinson
AK47
Pau Gasol
Zach Randolph
Tony Parker
Kwame Brown
Tyson Chandler
Eddy Curry
Joe Johnson
Jason Richardson
Vladimir Radmanovic

Then we resign Curry and Chandler at the end. I would really like to see how Hinirch and the team gels before making a trade so this would be a deadline deal


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

Why the Hell would you want Penny? Isnt his contract for two more years not one.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Starbury03</b>!
> Why the Hell would you want Penny? Isnt his contract for two more years not one.


my bad i meant Antoine Walker Penny was just near him on hoopshypes biggest salaries my bad


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## Starbury03 (Aug 12, 2003)

Good that isnt as bad but I still wouldnt trade Hinrich yet.


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## Sánchez AF (Aug 10, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BabyBlueSlugga7</b>!
> Kirk Hinrich and Antonio Davis for Antonie Walker an expiring contract Our team salary after qualifying offers to Curry and Chandler would be aproximately 24.1 million giving us an oppurtunity to sign these swingmen and talented yougn players.
> 
> Ray Allen
> ...


 Do you forget Antonio Davis have one of the worst contracts in the league Why a team like Atlanta who really needs cap room for the future will trade a big expiring contract and another exp. contract for a big nasty contract  Kirk is cool but not enough, And right now Walker is better than Antonio by far


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

does anyone want to give TC and Ec Qualifying offers ...if the team isn't any good they could just leave , especially since they will be UFA's


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## Chi_Lunatic (Aug 20, 2002)

*shakes head*

so you wanna get rid of one of the most promising pg's in the league for a CHANCE in hell to sign one of those RESTRICTED free agents next season


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> does anyone want to give TC and Ec Qualifying offers ...if the team isn't any good they could just leave , especially since they will be UFA's


TC and EC arent unrestricted. Extending a qualifying offer to them gives the Bulls the oppurtunity to match any offer.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Chi_Lunatic</b>!
> *shakes head*
> 
> so you wanna get rid of one of the most promising pg's in the league for a CHANCE in hell to sign one of those RESTRICTED free agents next season


I feel that Ben Gordon is going to be a helluva lot better then Kirk Hinrich. Now that it seems players want to go to Chicago again why not actually get cap space to sign them. Michael Redd and Ray Allen aren't rf and they are good. There's a lot of the restricted ones we could get with a good offer.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BabyBlueSlugga7</b>!
> 
> 
> TC and EC arent unrestricted. Extending a qualifying offer to them gives the Bulls the oppurtunity to match any offer.


they will be if they accept them, you cant make them wait until the end of the summer , if someone decides they want them on july 1 this plan has not a chance.

TC and EC are probably going to be coveted next season, if for no other reason than they are big men


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> 
> 
> they will be if they accept them


not the actual deal.

They have to extend a Qualifying Offer to them so they can match any offer that comes by. Then they can sign them to whatever contract they want after signing the other pieces. If they don't extend them the qualifying offer we lose all rights to them and they are already unrestriced free agents this year *what i meant was they will keep their rights to them by taking out of the salary cap what their qo's would be*

But this thread is just for something to talk about since its the offseason and not much is going on.


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## LoaKhoet (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>BabyBlueSlugga7</b>!
> Kirk Hinrich and Antonio Davis for Antonie Walker an expiring contract Our team salary after qualifying offers to Curry and Chandler would be aproximately 24.1 million giving us an oppurtunity to sign these swingmen and talented yougn players.
> 
> Ray Allen
> ...


Believe it or not, I do agree with you. I think we need to get the cap space this coming season and offer to a player like Redd. I actually thought of this but only considered trading Davis. We may have to lose one of our young players. It's a huge risk. A better way to do is offering our expiring contracts and a young player for a star, ala Pierce, etc.


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

Trying to trade Hinrich because Ben Gordon is supposedly going to step in and be a lot better is quite foolish. If an offer comes up involving Hinrich that would benefit the team, than yes, do it. However, trading a hard working point guard who is talented, smart and versatile to make room for an unproved rookie is not a good idea. It would be like Chandler/Brand all over again.


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## Chi_Lunatic (Aug 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>John The Cool Kid</b>!
> Trying to trade Hinrich because Ben Gordon is supposedly going to step in and be a lot better is quite foolish. If an offer comes up involving Hinrich that would benefit the team, than yes, do it. However, trading a hard working point guard who is talented, smart and versatile to make room for an unproved rookie is not a good idea. It would be like Chandler/Brand all over again.


chandler and brand was pretty diff...

brand was one of the best players in collge ball, and chandler was fresh out of high school

hinrich was one of the best players in college ball, so was ben gordon...i don't think that's the same situation..

now if we drafted shaun livingston, then this would be a diff story...


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## SecretAgentGuy (Jul 15, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>BabyBlueSlugga7</b>!
> Kirk Hinrich and Antonio Davis for Antonie Walker an expiring contract Our team salary after qualifying offers to Curry and Chandler would be aproximately 24.1 million giving us an oppurtunity to sign these swingmen and talented yougn players.
> 
> Ray Allen
> ...


Why do you hate Hinrich so much?  You're constantly trying to give him away...


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## Johnny Mac (May 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Chi_Lunatic</b>!
> chandler and brand was pretty diff...
> 
> brand was one of the best players in collge ball, and chandler was fresh out of high school
> ...


Proven vs. unproven. Same thing. 

I'm not anti-Gordon or anything, I think we should let him earn his spot on the team, not just hand it to him when we already have a damn good player at that position. If Gordon can outplay Hinrich and prove he has the ability to efficiently run the team better than Hinrich, than I think its a good idea to shop Hinrich to fill other positions we need to fill. However, until that happens, Gordon should be the one who is shopped.


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## HKF (Dec 10, 2002)

Wait to see what Gordon can do before thinking of trading Hinrich or Gordon. Although, I don't feel the Bulls can play the two together for multiple number of years. It's going to end up being one or the other.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

BabyBlueSlugga7,

What happens if you do this trade and eventually find out that Gordon really can't play PG? I love the guy and think he'll be a damn good player, but I'm far from sold on his ability to run a team, at least at the current time.


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## Lope31 (Jun 11, 2002)

Hinrich is the Bulls, from an outsiders point of view at least. I LOVE Tyson Chandler and want him to develop and dominate in the NBA but how long is he gonna make us wait? I know he's been troubled by injuries but injured or not he's not producing. Curry isn't producing either. I'm not saying give up on them but I am gonna say that it might not be such a bad idea to think that Hinrich maybe the player the Bulls should be building around.

Regardless, I love the Bulls roster. I'm gonna stick by Chandler until he's an NBA monster so all my friends can stop making fun of me. Maybe one day Curry will be awesome too. I love the draft you guys had and as you can tell I am pretty high on Kirk Hinrich aswell.

The Chicago Bulls are one of the coolest teams in the league no doubt.

Or you could just give the Raptors Ben Gordon and play Hinrich at point for the rest of his career. I would also be alright with you giving us Kirk and keeping Gordon for yourself.....we have Loren Woods to offer.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>KABI</b>!
> Hinrich is the Bulls, from an outsiders point of view at least. I LOVE Tyson Chandler and want him to develop and dominate in the NBA but how long is he gonna make us wait? I know he's been troubled by injuries but injured or not he's not producing. Curry isn't producing either. I'm not saying give up on them but I am gonna say that it might not be such a bad idea to think that Hinrich maybe the player the Bulls should be building around.
> 
> Regardless, I love the Bulls roster. I'm gonna stick by Chandler until he's an NBA monster so all my friends can stop making fun of me. Maybe one day Curry will be awesome too. I love the draft you guys had and as you can tell I am pretty high on Kirk Hinrich aswell.
> ...


Chandler and Curry should be ready to dominate the Eastern Conference if the reports about them are true. Tyson Chandler dominated the Eastern Conference at the beginning of last year before the back problem, if its true that his back is stronger and can last the year the East has a taller Ben Wallace on their hands. If Curry truly is in shape he should get an easy 20 ppg. as he got about 15 last year and he has steadily increased by about 4 ppg each year and that was when he was out of shape. As far as Hinrich and Gordon go. Well last year undoubtedly Hinrich was given the point guard spot undeserved while Jamal Crawford should have stayed at point guard. We have two starting point guards now and we need to trade one for talent. The only reason I call this a trade for talent is because I am pretty certain that we can land 1 or 2 of those players on that list. I just feel that Ben Gordon will be better then Hinrich in the long run and maybe even this season. If the swingman depth in free agency wasn't deep I wouldn't even consider this trade. Otherwise I would just look to package Hinrich with expiring contracts for a Pierce, Carter??? or trade him for a Jason Richardson etc. I want to see this group that we have right now to play first though before we make a move unless we are real stupid not to make the trade.


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## Bolts (Nov 7, 2003)

"Well last year undoubtedly Hinrich was given the point guard spot undeserved while Jamal Crawford should have stayed at point guard."

I'll be the first to call BS. What a crock.

It is not suprising though that someone that likes Crawford would want to draft Antoine Walker. They play the same game. Neither has a real position, both (wrongly) think they can run a team and both shot for crap.

I am desperately trying to control my urge to personally insult BBS, but I'll leave the thoughts implied.


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## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

The bulls should shoot for signing michael redd over the summer and clear some room because i would rather have redd over hinrich...


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## MikeDC (Jul 16, 2002)

No need for insults... we've all got our opinions 

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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by BabyBlueSlugga7!
> Total Busts- #2 Darko Milicic, *#4 Chris Bosh, #6 Chris Kaman, #7 Kirk Hinrich,* #12 Nick Collison, *#14 Luke Ridnour,* #20 Dahntay Jones, Travis Outlaw, #24 Brian Cook, #27 Kendrick Perkins, *#28 Leandrinho Barbosa.* 11 Total Busts
> 
> Dissapointments- #9 Mike Sweetney, #11 Mikael Pietrus, #15 Reece Gaines, #17 Zarko Cabarkapa, #19 Aleksander Palvolvic, #25 Carlos Delfino 6 Total Dissapointments
> ...


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## Hustle (Dec 17, 2003)

Hinrich is going to be one of the best PG in the league.

Defensively he might already be the best (thats right)
From what I've read about Kirk from people on this board, its seems like everyone is billing him as a middle of the pack piont guard.

Anyway my point is that you don't trade Kirk to save money.
and really in the long term we would probably loose flexibility and talent if we trade Kirk, because AWalker is a FA next year and that would mean we give away Hinrich just to save one year on AD, or we resign Walker and are not going to be FA players in 06'


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## Chicago N VA (Oct 31, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>KABI</b>!
> Hinrich is the Bulls, from an outsiders point of view at least.


Maybe I read this wrong, did you say.. Hinrich is the Bulls?

If anything the rise and fall of the Bulls will depend on Eddy Curry and on Tyson Chandler.

Hinrich is cool..but I don't think he's the type of player to put the Bulls on his shoulders and carry them to wins all by himself.


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## Salvaged Ship (Jul 10, 2002)

Wasn't the idea to play Hinrich and Gordon together? Forget he is smaller than the average shooting guard. There is this myth you have to be 6'5" or bigger or you must play point. We had a 6'5" shooting guard last year who couldn't guard anyone. Pax likes Gordon's defensive intensity.

Didn't Detroit win with 2 small guards last year? On the old Detroit teams, Dumars was only 6'2" or 6'3" and Isiah was around 6 foot. That was one of the best defensive backcourts ever.

If Gordon is as intense as Hinrich and plays with heart, he will be fine. My word, Crawford was a bit taller and stunk on "D".

Keep them both and let's see what we have. Don't trade Hinrich. He is the first player we have brought in in a long time who plays his *ss off. He looks like a perfect prototype point guard who plays D. I do see a potential Stockton in the guy. His shooting form is also a thing of beauty, it is only a matter of time beofre that shooting percentage goes way up.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

I dont see Hinrich making this huge leap to a 16-20 point 10 assist guys that people are thinking he will be. He played rougly 36 minutes a game and that was the most on the team this past year. I think that his scoring and assist numbers will stay pretty close to the same with a few seasons quite higher some lower to his rookie season, but he will have a higher shooting percentage which will increase his efficiency.

Ben Gordon on the other hand, I like his style of play. He reminds me a lot of an Allen Iverson that can run the point a lot better. This guy is going to be pretty damn good and him and Michael Redd would be the hottest backcourt in the league, no one could stop them.


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## DaBullz (Jul 15, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>sinkingship</b>!
> Wasn't the idea to play Hinrich and Gordon together? Forget he is smaller than the average shooting guard. There is this myth you have to be 6'5" or bigger or you must play point. We had a 6'5" shooting guard last year who couldn't guard anyone. Pax likes Gordon's defensive intensity.
> 
> Didn't Detroit win with 2 small guards last year? On the old Detroit teams, Dumars was only 6'2" or 6'3" and Isiah was around 6 foot. That was one of the best defensive backcourts ever.
> ...


Rip Hamilton is a puny 6'7" short guy.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

people forget something i think is very important when saying that a small backcourt can play good defense.

you need good defenders ....ben gordon is not one so comparing his defense in any way shape or form to either thomas or dumars is wrong its like calling crawford, sloan on defense because they were both 6'5.

kirk had his moments ...not as many as people would like to believe, but he did, gordon was not a particularly good defender in college and in summer leagues he stunk on D.

until gordon can actually play some defense its not his height that will make the backcourt fail , because his size is ok for the position he is defending(pg) it will be his ability.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

Why in the heck is anyone even considering trading Kirk? How much better of a point guard are you guys looking for? We are SET at the point for a LONG TIME. 

Sheesh! Talk about one step up, and two steps back.


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## kukoc4ever (Nov 20, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> Why in the heck is anyone even considering trading Kirk? How much better of a point guard are you guys looking for? We are SET at the point for a LONG TIME.
> 
> Sheesh! Talk about one step up, and two steps back.


If he does not improve his FG%, we're in trouble.


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## BG7 (Jun 25, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>kukoc4ever</b>!
> 
> 
> If he does not improve his FG%, we're in trouble.


finally someone that see's what I am seeing. Some people think he is up there with the greats already.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>The Great Twinkee</b>!
> 
> 
> finally someone that see's what I am seeing. Some people think he is up there with the greats already.


Yeah, because lord knows some rookie is not going to be in the top 7 in assists in his rookie season.

Oh...Wait...He WAS top 7 in the NBA. And the last time I checked, the point guard really shouldn't be your main scoring threat, should he? Isn't that defeating the purpose of a "team player"? It's not like Kirk was going all "Crawford-like" on the team and jacking up shots left and right. Isn't this why "Starbury" get's reamed all the time?

Shouldn't our bread and butter scorer be Curry anyway? 

And I would imagine a player with Kirk's mentality KNOWS what he needs to improve upon for the upcoming season. He WILL improve his FG%, etch that in stone.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

Also;

This original trade idea that was posted, talks about trading AD and Hinrich for some cap space and Walker?

1. Don't we have a few SF's already?

2. Aren't we going to get "capspace" when AD and E-Slob's contract run out???????

Sheesh.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

I honestly think some of you are happier with perpetual rebuilding and constant visits to Seacaucus NJ for the Draft Lottery, than you are with success.


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## VincentVega (Oct 12, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>The Great Twinkee</b>!
> I dont see Hinrich making this huge leap to a 16-20 point 10 assist guys that people are thinking he will be.


You also thought Hinrich, Bosh, Ridnour and Barbosa would be "total busts", and that Hollis Price -- a guy who wasn't even drafted -- would be an All-Star.



> This guy is going to be pretty damn good and him and Michael Redd would be the hottest backcourt in the league, no one could stop them.


Micahel Redd shot 35% from three last year.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!
> people forget something i think is very important when saying that a small backcourt can play good defense.
> 
> you need good defenders ....ben gordon is not one so comparing his defense in any way shape or form to either thomas or dumars is wrong its like calling crawford, sloan on defense because they were both 6'5.
> ...


Excellent post Grinch. Thats pretty much the way I feel about it too. I mean, an undersized 2 guard can be effective if he is a good defender but Gordon isn't a good defender and a lot of folks don't realize it yet but he is actually a downgrade from Jamal defensively, at least to begin his career.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> Excellent post Grinch. Thats pretty much the way I feel about it too. I mean, an undersized 2 guard can be effective if he is a good defender but Gordon isn't a good defender and a lot of folks don't realize it yet but he is actually a downgrade from Jamal defensively, at least to begin his career.


Ben Gordon is mentally and physically tougher than Jamal. I have no doubt that he will be as good or better a defender than Jamal right off the bat.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> Ben Gordon is mentally and physically tougher than Jamal. I have no doubt that he will be as good or better a defender than Jamal right off the bat.


I know, you have said so on numerous occassions. I have a feeling you will change your tune.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

I highly doubt it. I watched Ben Gordon try to take more charges in the summer league games, than I seen Crawford take in his entire career.


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## johnston797 (May 29, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> I highly doubt it. I watched Ben Gordon try to take more charges in the summer league games, than I seen Crawford take in his entire career.


Hey Shinky,

Was this one charge or more than onen charge?


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>johnston797</b>!
> 
> 
> Hey Shinky,
> ...


LOL! It wasn't many. But I guess that says alot about JC!


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> I highly doubt it. I watched Ben Gordon try to take more charges in the summer league games, than I seen Crawford take in his entire career.


There is a lot more to defense than just taking charges.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> There is a lot more to defense than just taking charges.


True, but taking charges tells one alot about the type of player one is. It takes a set of balls to stand there and take a knee to the chest and then hope the call goes your way and your not laying on your *** for nothing.

JC wont do it. Ben Gordon will. Hinrich does.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> True, but taking charges tells one alot about the type of player one is. It takes a set of balls to stand there and take a knee to the chest and then hope the call goes your way and your not laying on your *** for nothing.
> ...


Now if Gordon only had better lateral quickness, quicker hands, and better defensive instincts he'd really be a good defender.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> Now if Gordon only had better lateral quickness, quicker hands, and better defensive instincts he'd really be a good defender.


But I am more confident that Ben will work on these attributes than I was with JC working on them. And Gordon is already stronger and mentally tougher than Jamal.


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## ace20004u (Jun 19, 2002)

> Originally posted by <b>Shinky</b>!
> 
> 
> But I am more confident that Ben will work on these attributes than I was with JC working on them. And Gordon is already stronger and mentally tougher than Jamal.


Yeah but that stands to reason since you hate Jamal Crawford and think he is a "streetballer". That doesn't mean your right.


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## Shinky (Feb 4, 2004)

> Originally posted by <b>ace20004u</b>!
> 
> 
> Yeah but that stands to reason since you hate Jamal Crawford and think he is a "streetballer". That doesn't mean your right.


Actually, I hate Jamal because I think he's a wimp.


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