# Another loss to a good team.



## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

*Fails to see the difference between the Layden Knicks and the Isiah Knicks*


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## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

*Fails to see why Layden, whos best deal was a very bad 1(Dyess trade), is even given the light of day in comparison to Isiah Thomas by Rashidi*


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## The True Essence (May 26, 2003)

how did van horn get hurt...i didnt see that part. and We need houston down the stretch. And less of michael doleac. He can hit a J,but he does nothing else and thats not a good thing.

and NO MOOCHIE NORRIS. i hate him.


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## inapparent (Jul 2, 2003)

it's obvious that our front court is woefully undersized on defense and predictable on offense. if allan's gimpy and doesn't need to be respected there's no zonebusting, nothing easy down low where's there's zero post game and we will continue to lose, esp. to western teams with sensation PFs and/or Cs. Isiah, get me a draft pick in this year's lottery and take perovic or seung and pray. i still like what Isiah Lord has done but it ain't enough to even be sure of the 8th seed. yes, more jelling could happen, but more fluid could also appear in mr. houston's knees. the main difference between Layden's team and Isiah's is simply short- and long-term hope for Ws, not Ws themselves


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## Fordy74 (May 22, 2002)

I think Doleac plays good post D and blocks a few shots, I like him. He is a good frontcourt reserve. We need an upgrade from Harrington and a better starting PF/C than Mutombo and Kurt Thomas. We need a young, athletic, strong tough big man. Nene woulda been nice!! Tough loss, we could have won this game with a few more buckets from Penny or someone else that could have stepped up. Spurs had a ton of turnovers and we still lost. we need KVH and Houston to get healthy quickly!!


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

*Fails to see the difference between the Layden Knicks and the Isiah Knicks*

The reason you fail to see it is because laydens Knicks were so badly overpaid and under talented that we are stuck with the garbage he brought in..

Dont you get it???????????Its not complicated

Weatherspoon,Eisly,Anderson,the RIDICULOUS contract of Houston,the trade for Dyss???....

WAKE UP dude,layden killed us with those contracts..No GM wants our garbage...Isiah is stuck with it....Thats why there is no difference..

News flash....LAYDEN SUKKED..he is now FIRED.....The bad news is he couldnt take the garbage out with him....


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> *Fails to see the difference between the Layden Knicks and the Isiah Knicks*


Duh. This basically is Layden's team, only one starter has been changed. Layden was given four years to craft this gem. Even Jerry West couldn't save it in a month, or a year, or a few.

Only Rashidi would gloat when the Knicks, with their two highest scorers injured, don't beat the reigning champs. More "fair and balanced" propoganda from Fox, er, Rashidi...


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## Knicksbiggestfan (Apr 29, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PennyHardaway</b>!
> how did van horn get hurt...i didnt see that part. and We need houston down the stretch. And less of michael doleac. He can hit a J,but he does nothing else and thats not a good thing.
> 
> and NO MOOCHIE NORRIS. i hate him.



Told you guys moochie was nothing.



Anyway, I think we have to keep in mind that houston is still injured. Until he heals completely we'll never know truly what we have. Van Horn, Doleac, Starbury, Deke, Penny, and a healthy houston. Isn't such a bad team crappy contracts not withstanding.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Only Rashidi would gloat when the Knicks, with their two highest scorers injured, don't beat the reigning champs. More "fair and balanced" propoganda from Fox, er, Rashidi...


Van Horn and Houston were hurt earlier in the season. Why is it the Knicks get a free pass when they're out with Isiaih at the helm, but not so with Layden? I'm just looking for equality.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

Equality?????????

Rashidi,your boy Layden has gotten us into this mess....Did you expect Isaih to walk in and undo laydens fiasco in 3 weeks????

This team should have been nuked....

it wasnt and now we will pay for past sins


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Rashidi,your boy Layden has gotten us into this mess....


No, you seem to forget a certain Dave Checketts orchestrated the Ewing trade. As usual.


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## hatnlvr (Aug 14, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>PennyHardaway</b>!
> how did van horn get hurt...i didnt see that part. and We need houston down the stretch. And less of michael doleac. He can hit a J,but he does nothing else and thats not a good thing.
> 
> and NO MOOCHIE NORRIS. i hate him.


He was attacking the basket and Duncan blocked the shot, Keith went to his left Duncan stuffed it and Keiths arm twisted back with the ball.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> Van Horn and Houston were hurt earlier in the season. Why is it the Knicks get a free pass when they're out with Isiaih at the helm, but not so with Layden? I'm just looking for equality.


Silly boy, Layden and Chaney weren't canned for the two week period when Houston and Van Horn were hurt, it was for the preceeding three years. The "inequality" is that Isiah has only been here a few weeks, and you are already trying to equate him to Layden. If you'd stop trying to Redeem Layden's Legacy, and let us settle down a bit and see what this team can and cannot do, we can have a more sane conversation about it all down the road.



> No, you seem to forget a certain Dave Checketts orchestrated the Ewing trade. As usual.



(Groan...)

Stop saying as usual, I keep shooting down your assertion. I just made a long post on this a week ago (I added it below). Your energy to propogandize is heroic, and may eventually overwhelm me, but I do have enough left for one last whirl...

You have to get it in your head that Layden was the Knicks' GM, Checketts the President of all of the Garden's operations. Checketts had the Rangers, Icecapeds, Ringling Bros, Springsteen, Madonna, Striesand, and every other ****** tonk act coming through the Garden, on his back. Thus, he could not micro-manage every facet of every trade. He hired Grunfeld and then Layden to do that. One could argue that trading Ewing was a mistake, and Checketts did give the thumbs up for that. But Layden's problem was who he was traded for, Glenn Rice: and old, injured, shooting guard, when we already had a glut of Sprewell and Houston. Layden orchestrated the specifics of the trade, not Checketts. Understand?

Yes Layden had two trades put upon him, Ewing and Sprewell. To those who argue they should never have been traded at all, I agree you can blame Dolan. And for trading Sprewell I do, as it wasbased only on Dolan's hurt feelings. For Ewing I have sympathy for Patricks wish to be traded. But in either case, if one has issues with WHO THEY WERE TRADED FOR, and I do, the blame goes to Layden. He had many opportunities to trade for, or draft (or keep) young players, or athletic players, or quick players, or short contracts, or players with LEADERSHIP! Anything that plugged a missing hole on this team! But he almost never did. He just kept going for the same flavor of mayonnaise, over and over again. Ageged, slow, undersized, jumpshooting, etc. And just look at the types of players he traded away: Camby, Sprewell, Nene. Any one of those guys would be worth getting back now, as they'd be plugging a necessary hole.

Now please, just quit trying to hold every Knick accountable but Layden, it was his job and he simply didn't do it well. Get over it.

Below is my reply from last week, you may have been away and missed it. I welcome your reply, but please lets just hash this out once and for all and then move on:




> Originally posted by <b>son of oakley</b>
> 
> Stop again with the propoganda! I've been very reasonable in my comments about the relationship between Dolan and Layden, but it seems your personal commitment to shield Layden from any accountability must have blinded you from them.
> 
> ...


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

rashidi,i amy agree with you 100% in a year...in fact,i may hate thomas more than i hated layden...But that judgement wont come after 3 weeks...

Rashidi,even you must admit that Layden took on some TERRIBLE contracts,made a terrible trade for Dyss,and overpaid houston....


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

Dolan signed Houston, and without the "terrible" McDyess trade, we wouldn't have been able to make the "wonderful" Marbury trade.


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## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> Dolan signed Houston, and without the "terrible" McDyess trade, we wouldn't have been able to make the "wonderful" Marbury trade.


Yea we would have, Camby would have been perfect for them. Let me just say 1 thing to you tool: You love Scott Layden. That doesn't make you sane. You have no idea why you like him but you hate Isiah Thomas because Howard Eisley is gone and half of Layden's cronies are out the door with him. There were moves forced upon Layden, but it was Layden who offered the dumb deals, who accepted the dumb deals offered to him, and who put a stranglehold of losing on this franchise during his tenure here. So for the final time, go back and rethink why you love Layden so much and then say "Why does all of NY and the NBA hate him?" and then come back with a reasonable answer.


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## son of oakley (Dec 24, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> Dolan signed Houston,


First off, please present any evidence you may have to support that claim, otherwise it is just more propoganda, pure and simple.

If I remember correctly, last time you suggested it HAD to be Dolan, because the contract was so ludicrous that no GM could sanely do it. Therefore Dolan MUST have had hidden motives (or perhaps space aliens invaded Layden's body?)... That's not evidence, that's conspiracy theory.


Furthermore, which is it, you like Layden because he was:

A) a good GM.

B) irrelevant, because Dolan orchestrated all the trades.

If A) ...Layden was a good GM... after you've subtracted the signings of Rice, Houston, and Van Horn, (cause you *contend* Dolan was responsible for all of them), what are you left with for Layden? McDyess, Motumbo (luckily his salary is subsidised by NJ), Harrington, Spoon, Eisley, Anderson, Doleac. That's four years of work that you will defend to the bitter end? That work, which put us over the cap for years to come, and was applied to a .500 club that has yet to reached that mark again, will get you fired in any market.

If B) ...Layden was irrelevant because Dolan orchestrated all the trades... that's what you want from a GM, to be paid multi-millions per year to, what, sit on his but and run up a large phone bill making personal calls?




> and without the "terrible" McDyess trade, we wouldn't have been able to make the "wonderful" Marbury trade.


Why stop there? Let's thank Ewing's mom. She birthed Patrick, who when drafted allowed us to trade Cartright for Oakley, who we traded for Camby, who we traded for Dyess, who we traded for Marbury. Thanks Mrs Ewing, you made a nice trade.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

"Why does all of NY and the NBA hate him?" and then come back with a reasonable answer.

thats an oxymoron..rashidi and a reasonable answer??aint happening..

NYKFan123,you have been away for a while..rashidi never gives answers in feaqr of being DEAD wrong and he just can not get over Eisly being shipped out with Donny and Scott .....

Layden is teflon to rashid..nothing sticks....

Where rashidi is really good is,when you make a point contesting him,he shifts to some obscure issue which makes absolutely no sense...


I ask him"Rashidi,even you must admit that Layden took on some TERRIBLE contracts,made a terrible trade for Dyss,and overpaid houston"

and he responds with "without the "terrible" McDyess trade, we wouldn't have been able to make the "wonderful" Marbury trade"

is that a sane answer,or the answer of a basketball numnut??next thing you will hear is layden orchestrated the marbury deal...


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

> Yea we would have, Camby would have been perfect for them. Let me just say 1 thing to you tool:


See the problem is, Camby DOES NOT MAKE 13 MILLION, whereas McDyess DOES. Like it or not, Marbury would not be here if it weren't for McDyess. And some scrub named Maciej who came in that terrible trade too.


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## Rashidi (Oct 2, 2003)

And LMAO, you just mentioned my name 5 times in one post. It is obvious that you care deeply about me and what I think. Stop obsessing over me. There are other posters on this board, and I'm sure they're all supremely jealous of the attention you bestow unto me. Go suck up to the new guy, I'm sure he'll appreciate it.


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## Perennial All Star (Aug 13, 2003)

> Originally posted by <b>Rashidi</b>!
> 
> 
> See the problem is, Camby DOES NOT MAKE 13 MILLION, whereas McDyess DOES. Like it or not, Marbury would not be here if it weren't for McDyess. And some scrub named Maciej who came in that terrible trade too.



Whats the difference? Do you actually sit here and believe Layden made this deal only to trade McDyess 2 years later for Marbury? Fool....


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

rashidi,why dont you just get to the point once and for all.....

Did you think the knicks were heading in the right direction under layden?

were you happy with the team he assembled?


do you think he was unfairly fired??

cmon man,simple questions,simple answers


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