# Did the Lakers Make the Playoffs?



## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

I forget...because it seems like Lakers fans are so pleased that we lost in the Conference Finals, but they didn't even make the playoffs. We also beat them 2-0 this year. So, here's to the Lakers fans...

You think it's funny that we have Shaq's big contract, but ummmm you have Brian Grant's....advantage: Heat.

You have Lamar Odom, who everyone in South Florida saw he couldn't play as the 2nd option on a team, and proved it again this season with Kobe. Advantage: Heat.

And you have Caron Butler, who I do believe has a daughter named Miami, and has been seen at numerous Heat PLAYOFF games this season. He's probably counting the days until his contract expires so he can return home. Advantage: Heat.

And that future 1st? You better hope that the 1st round talent is DEEP next year, because our pick will be after #25, so atleast you can combine that with another lotto pick of your own. 

Wins? 59 to 34, Heat. Hell, you weren't even the best team in your own city. Advantage: Heat.


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## #1AntoineWalkerFan (Mar 10, 2005)

lol great post


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## Jesus_Walks (Jul 11, 2004)

yeahh good one shaq_diesel!!!!!!


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## SoCalfan21 (Jul 19, 2004)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> I forget...because it seems like Lakers fans are so pleased that we lost in the Conference Finals, but they didn't even make the playoffs. We also beat them 2-0 this year. So, here's to the Lakers fans...
> 
> You think it's funny that we have Shaq's big contract, but ummmm you have Brian Grant's....advantage: Heat.
> 
> ...


yeah great post SD oo yeah one thing u left off...whose got more championships?


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## Kunlun (Jun 22, 2003)

SoCalfan21 said:


> yeah great post SD oo yeah one thing u left off...whose got more championships?


He was merely pointing out the facts this past season. What does which team having more championships have anything to do with it? This season neither has won a championship, but the Heat have accomplished so much more. The Laker franchise has been around longer than the Heat so naturally they should have more championships also considering the players they have had in the past.


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## Pay Ton (Apr 18, 2003)

SoCalfan21 said:


> yeah great post SD oo yeah one thing u left off...whose got more championships?


It's easy to dwell on the past isn't it? 

I think I'm gonna go run over to my next door neighbors house who's a Spur fan and make fun of him and tease him because the Bulls won six championships.

Yeah, I think I'll do that.


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Kunlun said:


> He was merely pointing out the facts this past season. What does which team having more championships have anything to do with it? This season neither has won a championship, but the Heat have accomplished so much more. The Laker franchise has been around longer than the Heat so naturally they should have more championships also considering the players they have had in the past.


I think his point is that Laker fans only celebrate/mock when we have a title to back it up. That's all that matters in LA.










See? No Division banners, no conference banners. Heat hang them, Sixers hang them, Knicks hang them, Bulls hang them, Bobcats will hang them, but not the proud Lakers.

And we don't retire Jordan's jersey either.


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## WSU151 (Mar 13, 2005)

SoCalfan21 said:


> yeah great post SD oo yeah one thing u left off...whose got more championships?


The Celtics do. 

Funny, I don't see you on those boards, and I don't see Celtics fans on your boards. Grow the f*** up.


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## hirschmanz (Jun 3, 2005)

SoCalfan21 said:


> yeah great post SD oo yeah one thing u left off...whose got more championships?


this year, neither of them have any.

The difference: importance. If you're a veteran, would you rather take a pay cut to win with a team with the lakers or the heat? Not making any judgments on who's better, but the perceived quality of a team the previous year can work wonders on its offseason.


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

You know this wouldn't be a problem if you Laker fans put a leash on your ****ing retard dog.


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## OG (Aug 12, 2003)

Huh? The Lakers are still in the league? :laugh: 

I got nothing against the Lakers, you have BG, Caron & Odom. If you got rid of Kobe I may just be a fan.


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## WSU151 (Mar 13, 2005)

gian said:


> You know this wouldn't be a problem if you Laker fans put a leash on your ****ing retard dog.


LakerLunatic is only the tip of the iceberg...


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## PauloCatarino (May 31, 2003)

I voted: "No, but Miami did".

Did i win? :angel:


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## Ron Mexico (Feb 14, 2004)

Kunlun said:


> The Laker franchise has been around longer than the Heat so naturally they should have more championships also considering the players they have had in the past.


but if you look at when the heat arrived till now lakers fans could still say they have more championships in the same period

yeah but i agree can't live in the past

but if an argument comes whose been a better franchise its the lakers

who is the better team now its the heat


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## Drk Element (Nov 10, 2004)

this is a bunch of crap, im not gonna take part in this.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

http://basketballboards.net/forum/showthread.php?t=172776

there's the reason for this thread, you wanted to start making fun of us, we're gonna do the same to you....

it works both ways fellas.....

you can talk about your championships from when most of you guys were in diapers, but the fact is this:

Post Shaq Trade
Wins: Lakers 34, Heat 59
Playoff Berth: Lakers 0, Heat 1
Conference Finals Appearances: Lakers 0, Heat 1

Who's doing better? The numbers don't lie Lakers fans.......


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

I second Ron Mexico's post and i'll add:

Having to deal with Shaq's future contract...advantage Lakers.

Long term team assets...advantage lakers.

Incompetent BBB.net team forum mods...advantage Heat.


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## clien (Jun 2, 2005)

The heat are/were better then the lakers this year and they will prob. have a better team for a couple more years. But honestly Id rather have kobe right now than Shaq.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

Having Brian Grant's contract....advantage: Heat

A fan base that is still talking trash to the team it traded with eventhough they had a far, far worse season: Advantage: Lakers


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## Brian34Cook (Mar 26, 2003)

Gone Fishing: Lakers and Heat

I win.. Who cares..


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## RoyWilliams (May 25, 2003)

Brian34Cook said:


> Gone Fishing: Lakers and Heat
> 
> I win.. Who cares..


Has there ever been a gone fishing for a non playoff team? :biggrin:


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## Jamel Irief (May 19, 2002)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> Having Brian Grant's contract....advantage: Heat
> 
> A fan base that is still talking trash to the team it traded with eventhough they had a far, far worse season: Advantage: Lakers


Are you happy with the Heat's season? I get that impression from reading your posts. Laker fans were disgusted with our season in 2004, even though we made it to the finals. Spurs or Pistons fans will be pissed if they lose. Suns fans are probably happy with their season because they didn't expect that much, but I am surprised that Heat fans are in the same boat because I felt they made the trade only to win titles, not make it to game 7s of the conference finals. 

Hell you guys might of made the conference finals even without the Shaq trade this season.


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

Jamel Irief said:


> Are you happy with the Heat's season? I get that impression from reading your posts. Laker fans were disgusted with our season in 2004, even though we made it to the finals. Spurs or Pistons fans will be pissed if they lose. Suns fans are probably happy with their season because they didn't expect that much, but I am surprised that Heat fans are in the same boat because I felt they made the trade only to win titles, not make it to game 7s of the conference finals.
> 
> Hell you guys might of made the conference finals even without the Shaq trade this season.


 satisfied? no...not at all. But looking back, it was a good ride. Like Stan Van Gundy said today in the papers, never has a team been put together in 1 year and won a title in the past 25-30 years. It takes a trip of getting that close and losing to make you hungry next year. That's what we had to go through this year. I think we were good enough to get it done, but injuries and experience kept us out.


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## Petey (Aug 23, 2002)

Ah... do Heat fans really not know the Lakers didn't make the playoffs? Odd, don't recall Miami being covered by a bubble.

-Petey


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## DWadeistheTruth (Apr 25, 2005)

clien said:


> The heat are/were better then the lakers this year and they will prob. have a better team for a couple more years. But honestly Id rather have kobe right now than Shaq.


I honestly Id rather have Wade right now than Kobe.


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## HEATFREAK (May 21, 2005)

i'd rather have a rookie wade than a all-star kobe


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## BEEZ (Jun 12, 2002)

May I have cheese with that?

No thanks I'm lactose intolerant


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## Drk Element (Nov 10, 2004)

man guys screw this, both our teams are out of the playoffs, leave the fighting for next season.


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## UD40 (May 12, 2005)

Drk Element said:


> man guys screw this, both our teams are out of the playoffs, leave the fighting for next season.



Very, very well put


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> Having Brian Grant's contract....advantage: Heat
> 
> A fan base that is still talking trash to the team it traded with eventhough they had a far, far worse season: Advantage: Lakers


Bah, each team having each contract has plusses and minuses. Do you really think Shaq’s $30 million contract or Eddie Jones’ $30 mil over 2 more years are financial plusses?

Like I said, the Heat were the better team this past year, but not knowing what crap Shaq’s gonna pull would worry me. I like the position the Lakers are in for this upcoming year. I am thinking positive. I’d like to think positive for the Heat but this last year was their best bet at a ring unless Shaq decides to take a huge paycut. Dooling nd Haslem could be gone unless the Heat spend a ton more than they have for salaries the past few years. Damon Jones could also leave for more money. That leaves Miami with Shaq, EJ, Wade, Doleac, Zhizhi, Butler, Person, Wright, a late first rounder, the MLE and LLE’s. From my perspective, the Heat are in a similar position to the Lakers before Mitch K. opened his mouth about trading Shaq after the Finals last year; however, the Heat’s situation is much riskier. If Shaq wants his $30 mil, Dooling, Haslem and DJ leave, the Heat have 6 holes to fill with one low first round draft pick, the MLE and the LLE. And BTW, this is the same situation for 05-06 regardless of Shaqs new contract.


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## Locke (Jun 16, 2003)

I know you guys are upset that you didn't go all the way and us Laker fans were dogging the big man out, but shouldn't you all be greatful to the Lakers that you even have him in the first place and were able to experience some measure of success?

Some of you guys have to understand, while you guys may have giggled at Shaq's year-long string of insults many Laker fans, including myself, got sick and tired of it. I'm sure most of you would feel the same way if Shaq left your team and continued to trash Dwyane Wade or Micky Arison or Pat Riley just because they wouldn't pay him $30+ million a year. Lighten up guys, there's no need for all this. It's not like any Laker fans came to this board and starting trolling like people always do to us.


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## BlackNRed (Feb 9, 2005)

gian said:


> You know this wouldn't be a problem if you Laker fans put a leash on your ****ing retard dog.


These Laker fans crack me up man. They have all this animosity towards us because according to them we 'stole' their best player. No, we didn't steal anything Laker fans. Your retarded GM traded him to us. Your problem lays in your own franchise. You guys make yourselves look like fools coming over here running your mouths at us. Your team is garbage and it looks like they will be for the next few years, at least. Now you can feel our pain from 01'-03' and quite a few heartbreaking seasons in the 90s. Sucks not being at the top half of the food chain doesn't it? Your jealousy is showing. It's the Heat's turn now. Get used to it.


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## sic_D (May 5, 2005)

Lakers lost both their games against Miami and did they forget this:<br> :rock: <br>

<img src="http://www.steelhide.com/WadeSlap.gif">


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

Laker fans are being totally immature in this thread. This was started because that idiot LakerLunatic came here to rub the losses in our face. I mean, you guys have your own ****ing forum, post there, and don't post here just to piss us off. Then we post something about the Lakers here, and all these Laker fans come rushing in to protect the Lakers. How dare they say something awful about Kobe's team?! That's blasphemy! 

You guys wanna make stupid arguments? I'm in for it. Heat have the better team for the future because we don't have Kobe Bryant, that freaking cancer. We have the best player in the league Dwyane Wade, and the best rookie this year in Dorell Wright. We also have the next Charles Oakley in Udonis Haslem, while Damon Jones will eventually beat Steve Kerr when it comes to three point shooting. The Lakers have talent, but as long as they have that selfish ******* Kobe, they won't be getting anywhere.


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## JeepLiberty03 (Dec 28, 2002)

*Well said!*



Heated said:


> These Laker fans crack me up man. They have all this animosity towards us because according to them we 'stole' their best player. No, we didn't steal anything Laker fans. Your retarded GM traded him to us. Your problem lays in your own franchise. You guys make yourselves look like fools coming over here running your mouths at us. Your team is garbage and it looks like they will be for the next few years, at least. Now you can feel our pain from 01'-03' and quite a few heartbreaking seasons in the 90s. Sucks not being at the top half of the food chain doesn't it? Your jealousy is showing. It's the Heat's turn now. Get used to it.


All these Faker fans think that Bust and his lappdog Cupcake will turn kobe's team around next season. Of course most of them thought they were going to make the play-offs this season without Shaq. They are celebrating the Heat's loss like the Fakers are the team that beat them in the ECF. Give me a break. They are just very bitter, and not worth our time. The Heat fans all know that Shaq wasn't 100%, and if Wade was healthy we would've beat Detroit. Fakers won't be in a better position than the Heat to win a Championship in the Shaq era in Miami. They need to worry about their own roster problems and let the Heat fans worry about our roster. I doubt Shaq will demand LA money from the Heat. That was all about Bust choosing Kobe, and paying him max $, so Shaq wanted his $ since he was the main man during the 3-peat.


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## bkbballer16 (Apr 28, 2005)

No but I am pretty sure Miami did. AT least we made it sumwhere.


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## clien (Jun 2, 2005)

gian said:


> Laker fans are being totally immature in this thread. This was started because that idiot LakerLunatic came here to rub the losses in our face. I mean, you guys have your own ****ing forum, post there, and don't post here just to piss us off. Then we post something about the Lakers here, and all these Laker fans come rushing in to protect the Lakers. How dare they say something awful about Kobe's team?! That's blasphemy!
> 
> You guys wanna make stupid arguments? I'm in for it. Heat have the better team for the future because we don't have Kobe Bryant, that freaking cancer. We have the best player in the league Dwyane Wade, and the best rookie this year in Dorell Wright. We also have the next Charles Oakley in Udonis Haslem, while Damon Jones will eventually beat Steve Kerr when it comes to three point shooting. The Lakers have talent, but as long as they have that selfish ******* Kobe, they won't be getting anywhere.


lol
im not gonna put anything else in this thread, but if all u miami fans are so upset that the la fans are fighting this thread then why was it started. i thought u were tryin to start some contraversey or w/e...how did u expect la fans to react?gian


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

I didnt see Heat fans troll in the "hope Shaq dies thread".

The thread was started because of the FakerLunatic character who was trolling in the Heat board.


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

clien said:


> lol
> im not gonna put anything else in this thread, but if all u miami fans are so upset that the la fans are fighting this thread then why was it started. i thought u were tryin to start some contraversey or w/e...how did u expect la fans to react?gian


This is how we were expected to react when the Laker fans' town idiot decided to come here and start ****.


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## Nikihotgirl (Apr 13, 2003)

for the 5th time in franchised history, the lakers did not make the post season. what is the point of this thread? to make heat fans feel better because their franchised never made it to the finals?


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## fmanlu05 (Jun 11, 2005)

get over it laker fans. talk about the past all you want but the heat are the better team right NOW. shaq's gonna retire here whether you like it or not. wade has already reached the elite level of kobe without destroying team chemistry. good luck trying to make the playoffs next year. how embarassing is it for a franchise to force out a coach who's won 9 titles and is now begging for him to come back? sad times in la la land.


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## Nikihotgirl (Apr 13, 2003)

fmanlu05 said:


> get over it laker fans. talk about the past all you want but the heat are the better team right NOW. shaq's gonna retire here whether you like it or not. wade has already reached the elite level of kobe without destroying team chemistry. good luck trying to make the playoffs next year. how embarassing is it for a franchise to force out a coach who's won 9 titles and is now begging for him to come back? sad times in la la land.




in my post, i am not talking about the past. its a fact that the lakers as franchised missed the post season 5 times. its a fact that miami as a franchised never made it to the finals. you need to explain yourself about talking about the past. like i stated before what is the reason for this thread?


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## fmanlu05 (Jun 11, 2005)

the past remark wasn't directed towards you niki.. it was to that person who immaturely replyed back stating how many championships the lakers had won. the reason for this thread was stated above as some laker fan was trolling in here for no reason talking smack after that game 7. i apologize if u thought that was directed at you.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

Locke said:


> I know you guys are upset that you didn't go all the way and us Laker fans were dogging the big man out, but shouldn't you all be greatful to the Lakers that you even have him in the first place and were able to experience some measure of success?
> 
> Some of you guys have to understand, while you guys may have giggled at Shaq's year-long string of insults many Laker fans, including myself, got sick and tired of it. I'm sure most of you would feel the same way if Shaq left your team and continued to trash Dwyane Wade or Micky Arison or Pat Riley just because they wouldn't pay him $30+ million a year. Lighten up guys, there's no need for all this. It's not like any Laker fans came to this board and starting trolling like people always do to us.



spoken like a champion


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

Heated said:


> These Laker fans crack me up man. They have all this animosity towards us because according to them we 'stole' their best player. No, we didn't steal anything Laker fans. Your retarded GM traded him to us. Your problem lays in your own franchise. You guys make yourselves look like fools coming over here running your mouths at us. Your team is garbage and it looks like they will be for the next few years, at least. Now you can feel our pain from 01'-03' and quite a few heartbreaking seasons in the 90s. Sucks not being at the top half of the food chain doesn't it? Your jealousy is showing. It's the Heat's turn now. Get used to it.


this post is dillusional... we have nothing to be jelous of... lakerlunatic came here being the lunatic he is... the rest of us could care less... we don't like Shaq... i'd say the most of us actually do like Wade and the Heat... heat fans come and troll on our boards u never see (except Lakelunatic) any of us come on and troll here...

honestly we could care less about yall... and if we were jelous (some mite be, but im not) it wouldnt be of the Heat cuz truthfully you guys arent that great... you lost to Detroit who is getting killed by the Spurs... not to much of an accomplishment for a team that has been as succesful as the LAkers have to be jelous of


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

gian said:


> Laker fans are being totally immature in this thread. This was started because that idiot LakerLunatic came here to rub the losses in our face. I mean, you guys have your own ****ing forum, post there, and don't post here just to piss us off. Then we post something about the Lakers here, and all these Laker fans come rushing in to protect the Lakers. How dare they say something awful about Kobe's team?! That's blasphemy!
> 
> You guys wanna make stupid arguments? I'm in for it. Heat have the better team for the future because we don't have Kobe Bryant, that freaking cancer. We have the best player in the league Dwyane Wade, and the best rookie this year in Dorell Wright. We also have the next Charles Oakley in Udonis Haslem, while Damon Jones will eventually beat Steve Kerr when it comes to three point shooting. The Lakers have talent, but as long as they have that selfish ******* Kobe, they won't be getting anywhere.


how are we bein immature... i just looked at the post and id say the best, most sensible posts have been Laker fans.... most of ur guys posts are accusing us of things we havent done... or bashing Kobe...

u dont want us here?? dont trash the lakers... we dont troll... but go look at the # of u guys in our forum (including YOU i believe)


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> I forget...because it seems like Lakers fans are so pleased that we lost in the Conference Finals, but they didn't even make the playoffs. We also beat them 2-0 this year. So, here's to the Lakers fans...
> 
> You think it's funny that we have Shaq's big contract, but ummmm you have Brian Grant's....advantage: Heat.
> 
> ...



Sucks for the Lakers that they have to play in the west.. Looks like any half decent team can look good in the east.. I mean come on, the competition.. the wizards... The bulls.. Thats almost funny saying the word competition and those teams in the same paragraph...

Seriously though, I dont think any laker fan is debating what team is better. I think anyone who is realistic and not in denial can agree that the Heat are a better team all around... But thats why they are not rebuilding.. Thats why they were supposed to win a ring this year. The Laker fans are celebrating the fact that after all the trash talk, Shaq finally encountered a decent team in the east, went to game Seven, and didn't get it done in his most lackluster playoffs of his career. Thats what Laker fans like. I was one of the few who loved Shaq, was pissed off that he was traded.. That didn't last so long.... 

Grants contract sucks, but after next year it's going to get a whole lot better.. Shaq wants a 3 year 90 million deal.. Thats not going away, thats only getting bigger. Maimi better hope he comes to his senses and figures out that a 300 plus pound center on the decline needs to take a paycut for the benifit of the team, otherwise you guys are screwed. 

Judging by the amount of praise Caron gives kobe, and the fact they have been seen numours times in the offseason hanging out, I got a feeling he doesn't mind being in LA to much. But he isn't going to stay most likely, as he is the only real trade bait the lakers have this year.

I think the heat are a good team. Wade is a total beast, and I enjoyed watching him. But the truth is, your situation can get a lot uglier, where the Lakers only have to go one more season before the majority of the contracts expire and can be used as trade bait.. Thats probably why the Laker GM and onwer said it would take 2-3 years before the team is ready to compete. I guess thats why the call it rebuilding.

And the great thing about Laker management, is that they know how to rebuild teams.. How many rings the Heat got again....? 

Sad thing about Heat fans though is realistically, even if they pulled of a game seven.. It would be like sending the cow to the slaughter. The Spurs were not going to lose to any eastern team.. And if you think otherwise you don't follow there game much. As a Laker fan, I'm not supposed to admit stuff like that, but the Spurs are dominate, would have dominated, and would have crippled the Heat, or the Lakers, or whatever other team you wanted to throw at em. 

Heat were great and all in the east, but in the West they would have been probably 3-4, and a first or second round drop out. 

But hey, theres always next year right?


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

And no one is going to remember how good your record was this year, or how close you guys came to having a chance... Cause all the heat did is avoid going to vacation early, but in the end.. They still went home empty handed.. A feeling that the Heat have had all to often throughout thier history.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> Having Brian Grant's contract....advantage: Heat
> 
> A fan base that is still talking trash to the team it traded with eventhough they had a far, far worse season: Advantage: Lakers



Naww... Shaq never talked trash on the Lakers this season....

But that damn Kobe.. He has been non-stop trashing Shaq... That snitchdevil...


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

Heated said:


> These Laker fans crack me up man. They have all this animosity towards us because according to them we 'stole' their best player. No, we didn't steal anything Laker fans. Your retarded GM traded him to us. Your problem lays in your own franchise. You guys make yourselves look like fools coming over here running your mouths at us. Your team is garbage and it looks like they will be for the next few years, at least. Now you can feel our pain from 01'-03' and quite a few heartbreaking seasons in the 90s. Sucks not being at the top half of the food chain doesn't it? Your jealousy is showing. It's the Heat's turn now. Get used to it.



Stole our best player?? How do you steal a player, when we traded him away in the first place.. The problem he had with us is that the Lakers org didn't think he is worth the money, because they were afraid his weight and injury prone nature could start becoming a problem... Say durning the playoffs... 

You should probably wait until you actually win a ring before it's considered your turn.. Right now it looks like it's the Spurs turn.


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

shobe42 said:


> how are we bein immature... i just looked at the post and id say the best, most sensible posts have been Laker fans.... most of ur guys posts are accusing us of things we havent done... or bashing Kobe...
> 
> u dont want us here?? dont trash the lakers... we dont troll... but go look at the # of u guys in our forum (including YOU i believe)


Uhm.. your post made no sense. I never said that I didn't want any of you guys here, I just said that you guys should shut up and stop bashing the Heat. This thread was created because that ****ing Lunatic keeps trolling here. And the moment we get pissed at him, you guys go here and defend yourselves like we want to insult you guys. Understand that if you guys actually tamed your ****ing mascot things wouldn't be like this. 

From the DWade fan club thread: 



> Officially dont put me in, the bandwagon is large enough.
> 
> 
> Go Lakers.


From the HEAT FANS ARE MINDLESS SHEEP THREAD: 



> YOU LIKE THE HEAT BECAUSE THEY ARE EASY TO LIKE. GET OVER THE LAKERS, WHEN SHAQS A POLICE OFFICER (he will make a good cop, he is a ****ing fat ***) KOBE WILL STILL BE SCORING 30 A GAME AND WE WILL BE BETTER THEN YOU.
> 
> 
> 75% OF THE HEAT FANS LIKE THE HEAT THIS YEAR FOR ONE REASON, SHAQ, SO DONT ACT ALL PROUD, TRY BEING LOYAL FOR A FEW YEARS THEN ACT LIKE "YOUR TEAM" IS ACTUALLY YOUR TEAM.



Get my drift? Be a ******* to us on your own board, LakerLunatic.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

LakerLunitic and his threads has been dealt with accordingly by the Laker mods on the Laker board. I think it's time the Heat mods act accordingly with the threads on their board. As in this one.


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

EHL said:


> LakerLunitic and his threads has been dealt with accordingly by the Laker mods on the Laker board. I think it's time the Heat mods act accordingly with the threads on their board. As in this one.


It all began with the Lunatic. Hey I never bashed Laker fans as a whole in this thread, and if we did, blame it on LakerLunatic, it's like he took the definition of a Laker fan and found negative connotations for all the words in the definition. Then he probably applied it to himself.


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## LoyalBull (Jun 12, 2002)

For all the Laker fans who continually keep talking about how the Lakers "would have been better if they didn't have to play in the "weak" east"...

Take a look at your winning percentage.

It was worse against the East than it was the West.

As it stands... LA doesn't want to play in the "weak" East. IF they did... they would be even further behind the Clippers in the standings!


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

LoyalBull said:


> For all the Laker fans who continually keep talking about how the Lakers "would have been better if they didn't have to play in the "weak" east"...
> 
> Take a look at your winning percentage.
> 
> ...



:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

How many times the Lakers play eastern teams vs Western teams this season... Hrm... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

This is my favorite so far.. I need to change my quote...

:cheers:


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

CDRacingZX6R said:


> :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
> 
> How many times the Lakers play eastern teams vs Western teams this season... Hrm... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> ...


AHHAHAHAHA The Lakers sucked this season.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

gian said:


> AHHAHAHAHA The Lakers sucked this season.



That rocked... You put me in my place... 

:clap: :laugh:


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

The Lakers may get better in a couple of years, but they won't change in the standings much. San Antonio, Denver, Dallas and Phoenix will have their same core intact for years to come, Houston and Memphis are in decent shape... Sacremento may fall but Utah and possibly Golden State will rise to take their spot in coming years. I'll give the Laker half a dozen years to contend, give or take 1, unless they get a better GM and a very good coach.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

gian said:


> Hey I never bashed Laker fans as a whole in this thread, and if we did, blame it on LakerLunatic


No... i think we'll blame the people that generalized a fan base becuz of one self-proclaimed "lunatic"


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## Duece Duece (Mar 28, 2003)

:laugh: @ you punk azz Miami Heat fans. If you didn't wanna Laker Fans to come into ya forum, don't fukkin start a topic about the Lakers, it's that simple. Yeah, we didn't make the playoffs, so what. We the ones that had injuries up the ying yang and a coaching change after 50 games with a whole new system. Ya'll didn't make the Finals. This was ya only chance at a championship and ya failed big time. Ya'll betta hope Shaq takes that pay cut, other wise your gonna be the Lakers of the east, except with a Shaq on the decline, and no championships.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

Duece Duece said:


> :laugh: @ you punk azz Miami Heat fans. If you didn't wanna Laker Fans to come into ya forum, don't fukkin start a topic about the Lakers, it's that simple. Yeah, we didn't make the playoffs, so what. We the ones that had injuries up the ying yang and a coaching change after 50 games with a whole new system. Ya'll didn't make the Finals. This was ya only chance at a championship and ya failed big time. Ya'll betta hope Shaq takes that pay cut, other wise your gonna be the Lakers of the east, except with a Shaq on the decline, and no championships.


INGLEWOOOOOOOOOD


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## Tyrellaphonte (Feb 21, 2004)

gian said:


> Heat have the better team for the future because we don't have Kobe Bryant, that freaking cancer. We have the best player in the league Dwyane Wade, and the best rookie this year in Dorell Wright. We also have the next Charles Oakley in Udonis Haslem, while Damon Jones will eventually beat Steve Kerr when it comes to three point shooting. The Lakers have talent, but as long as they have that selfish ******* Kobe, they won't be getting anywhere.


That was probably the stupidest thing i've ever heard. If the Heat were that goood, then why did they not win the championship? Yeah they were good this year, but who knows how the future will be for them? They have a 330 plus pound 33 year old who is on the decline of his career, ALonzo Mourning who's almost done, Eddie Jones who doesnt have that much more time in his prime, Damon Jones is going to leave for more money after he establishes himself. Dwyane Wade and Dorell Wright are the only people who are going to be around for the future. 

Dont get me wrong. I like the heat. I just hate shaq. And dont get me wrong, I liked Shaq. But hes been sayin **** that has gotten on mine and the rest of the laker fans nerves. Thats all


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

shobe42 said:


> No... i think we'll blame the people that generalized a fan base becuz of one self-proclaimed "lunatic"


:laugh:

Who are those 'people'? Show me a false generalization that wasn't in direct response to another false generalization in this thread by a Heat fan.


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

Teezy said:


> That was probably the stupidest thing i've ever heard. If the Heat were that goood, then why did they not win the championship? Yeah they were good this year, but who knows how the future will be for them? They have a 330 plus pound 33 year old who is on the decline of his career, ALonzo Mourning who's almost done, Eddie Jones who doesnt have that much more time in his prime, Damon Jones is going to leave for more money after he establishes himself. Dwyane Wade and Dorell Wright are the only people who are going to be around for the future.
> 
> Dont get me wrong. I like the heat. I just hate shaq. And dont get me wrong, I liked Shaq. But hes been sayin **** that has gotten on mine and the rest of the laker fans nerves. Thats all


It was meant to be illogical.


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## Tyrellaphonte (Feb 21, 2004)

DBurks2818 said:


> The Lakers may get better in a couple of years, but they won't change in the standings much. San Antonio, Denver, Dallas and Phoenix will have their same core intact for years to come, Houston and Memphis are in decent shape... Sacremento may fall but Utah and possibly Golden State will rise to take their spot in coming years. I'll give the Laker half a dozen years to contend, give or take 1, unless they get a better GM and a very good coach.


no one said that about phoenix last year... San Antonio, Denver, Dallas, Sacramento, they all had the same core... but Phoenix got a couple of free agents and bam they became one of the best teams in the league. Same thing with the sonics.. they didnt really do anything different but they started contending. Any team can shoot up in the standings, it just depends how their management handles it. If Kupchak wasnt such a retard, we might be able to turn it around soon.


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

Most of the Sonics success was due to the acquisition of Danny Fortson, Ray Allen being healthy the whole year, and 2/3rds of the rotation being in their contract years and thus overachieving for more money (this happened with Minnesota somewhat last year). Phoenix is the only special, rare, case.The difference is that they had the cap space (and still do). Then they had a great GM who just happened to have players that fit together perfectly in an offense that their coach gambled on at the beginning of the year. 

Do the Lakers have 16 mil to offer 2 solid players (1 of which is an all-star) like the Suns? They don't even have the trade fodder (realistically) outside of Butler and Odom. And they won't get anyone for Butler's worth because he's still on a rookie contract. They could trade Odom, but it would hurt them because he's such a versatile player. George/Atkins/Divacs won't be accepted for much more than an another old player and a draft pick, which won't be good enough to get them into the playoffs for another couple of years at the least (especially if Phil continues not to play rookies much at all like he has in the past). And speaking of Phil, his offense won't allow the Lakers to try to find Phoenix-calibur success with a running game... I stand by my claim that the Lakers won't *contend* for half-a-dozen years at the least.


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## hirschmanz (Jun 3, 2005)

DBurks2818 said:


> Most of the Sonics success was due to the acquisition of Danny Fortson, Ray Allen being healthy the whole year, and 2/3rds of the rotation being in their contract years and thus overachieving for more money (this happened with Minnesota somewhat last year). Phoenix is the only special, rare, case.The difference is that they had the cap space (and still do). Then they had a great GM who just happened to have players that fit together perfectly in an offense that their coach gambled on at the beginning of the year.


Don't forget about rashard lewis having an excellent year.
Also, the suns had lots of success because no one got injured as well.


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

Oh, great points. I forgot about those.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

gian said:


> :laugh:
> 
> Who are those 'people'? Show me a false generalization that wasn't in direct response to another false generalization in this thread by a Heat fan.


here's an example i found real quick.. actually what caused me to post on this board.

[Q]These Laker fans crack me up man. They have all this animosity towards us because according to them we 'stole' their best player.[/Q]

we could care less about a team that think much more about themselves than they really are... a post was made on the board anti-lakers and we're gonna fite it... *we have no animosity, so that makes this post a generalization*


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

Honestly i feel a lot of the heat/laker issues come from the heat side....

Shaq is real mad at the Lakers and the Lakers don't care... IMO, heat fans have rallied around Shaq on here against Laker fans....

we aren't angry b/c 1. we for the most part are glad he's out and 2. what would we have to be jelous of when he really didnt work out for yall... it was what we figured he was injured and didn't come thru when he was needed

so i feel that "most" heat fans have rallied around Shaq and our a lil disapointed at how he turned out while "most" Laker fans really don't care a whole bunch about other teams...


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## bear23 (Feb 28, 2005)

shobe42 said:


> Honestly i feel a lot of the heat/laker issues come from the heat side....
> 
> Shaq is real mad at the Lakers and the Lakers don't care... IMO, heat fans have rallied around Shaq on here against Laker fans....
> 
> ...


Did you enjoy the extended off season Shobe


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

have u watched the news at all lately

so far... HELL YEAH...


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## -33- (Aug 6, 2002)

yes it was everything you expected, Shaq was injured? he missed like 11 games out of the 97 we played this reg season + postseason...that's not bad at all....

Phil has always had 2 great players, MJ+Pip/Kobe+Shaq, now he doesn't have the luxury...I want to see Phil prove himself as a great coach and do a job without 2 superstars, b/c I don't see the Lakers adding another big piece to the puzzle (although I guess it could happen)

1 season in the books: Advantage, Heat.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

Shaq_Diesel said:


> yes it was everything you expected, Shaq was injured? he missed like 11 games out of the 97 we played this reg season + postseason...that's not bad at all....
> 
> Phil has always had 2 great players, MJ+Pip/Kobe+Shaq, now he doesn't have the luxury...I want to see Phil prove himself as a great coach and do a job without 2 superstars, b/c I don't see the Lakers adding another big piece to the puzzle (although I guess it could happen)
> 
> 1 season in the books: Advantage, Heat.


You won't be chirpin so much later this year when you have to re-sign Shaq for 3 years at $30M each...


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

This whole Phil Jackson thing is funny. Last year, Buss took Kobe's side in the Kobe-Shaq/Phil feud and let Phil and Shaq get away (Shaq had to be traded regardless, people. If Buss holds on to Shaq he can't resign Kobe because Kobe wouldn't stand being the second option any longer. Don't put this all on Shaq) because Buss didn't care for Phil's "slow" offense anymore and Kobe didn't want to cooperate with either of them. 

Buss and Kobe go on to suffer their worst season in a decade (every team had injury problems, don't fall back on that excuse) and now finally see the value in winning basketball games so Buss wants to go back to the same coach he let go one year earlier. I lost a bit of respect for Phil for coming back into the same organization that felt they'd be better off without him such a short while ago.


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## Damian Necronamous (Jun 10, 2002)

DBurks2818 said:


> This whole Phil Jackson thing is funny. Last year, Buss took Kobe's side in the Kobe-Shaq/Phil feud and let Phil and Shaq get away (Shaq had to be traded regardless, people. If Buss holds on to Shaq he can't resign Kobe because Kobe wouldn't stand being the second option any longer. Don't put this all on Shaq) because Buss didn't care for Phil's "slow" offense anymore and Kobe didn't want to cooperate with either of them.
> 
> Buss and Kobe go on to suffer their worst season in a decade (every team had injury problems, don't fall back on that excuse) and now finally see the value in winning basketball games so Buss wants to go back to the same coach he let go one year earlier. I lost a bit of respect for Phil for coming back into the same organization that felt they'd be better off without him such a short while ago.


They didn't feel they'd be better off without him. That couldn't be farther from the truth. :no:


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

And if you think the Heat had their best chance to do something this year,the Lakers had their best chance (until all of their bad contracts expire) to at least get to the playoffs this year. They had one of the easiest schedules in the league for the first 3/4th of the season, relatively-strong teams hampered with worse injuries than themselves (Jazz, Clippers believe-it-or-not) or internal problems (Timberwolves, Grizzlies to a lesser extent)... 

It only gets more difficult from here, with Golden State, Utah, and possibly Minnesota (with their new cap space) almost assuredly being playoff-calibur teams next season and the fact that the strong teams in the west will be keeping their cores intact as I stated previously. They had a great shot this year too.


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

Damian Necronamous said:


> They didn't feel they'd be better off without him. That couldn't be farther from the truth. :no:


Where was his contract extension? Or did he turn a new contract down (wasn't really sure about this)?

Edit: Nevermind, found out that this <b>was</b> the truth.

<i>After the Laker mini-dynasty sputtered last year in Detroit, Jackson and the Lakers parted ways hastily, with Laker owner Jerry Buss suggesting Jackson's methodical triangle offense had run its course. Jackson later described the finality of a meeting with Buss last June as unsettling and jarring.</i>


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## clien (Jun 2, 2005)

Damian Necronamous said:


> They didn't feel they'd be better off without him. That couldn't be farther from the truth. :no:


doesnt take a smart man to know ^thats the truth


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## clien (Jun 2, 2005)

Edit:never mind :biggrin:


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

shobe42 said:


> Honestly i feel a lot of the heat/laker issues come from the heat side....
> 
> Shaq is real mad at the Lakers and the Lakers don't care... IMO, heat fans have rallied around Shaq on here against Laker fans....
> 
> ...


RIDICULOUS.

Lakers fans are known to be stubborn and doesnt know the difference between reality and illusional; example Kobe>> Jordan, Magic >> Jordan.

There isnt 1 heat fan here that has like the lakers, i hated them since i started watching the NBA so its not really a suprise to so much hatred is going on with the lakers.

You guys Have been angry all season and been complaining all season about Shaq work ethics, how the Heat wont make the playoffs,Detroit will sweep Miami, and hope Shaq dies.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

MiamiHeat03 said:


> RIDICULOUS.
> 
> Lakers fans are known to be stubborn and doesnt know the difference between reality and illusional; example Kobe>> Jordan, Magic >> Jordan.


i challenge you to find two people who think Kobe is better than Jordan... there is always 1 crazy... people always say this about laker fans but we dont say it... i think it pisses u off that we dont


> You guys Have been angry all season and been complaining all season about Shaq work ethics, how the Heat wont make the playoffs,Detroit will sweep Miami


we have always complained about Shaqs work ethic it cost us two titles... probly cost yall 1... it has nothing to do with the heat

who said the heat wouldn't make the playoffs?? and crackheads dont count



> and hope Shaq dies.


who the hell said this?? seriously... hope Shaq dies?? nobody said this... how old are you??


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

plus the only reason most of us still talk about Shaq is he goes in the press on his little bitter tirades about our team on a near weekly basis... if u cant see that clearly then your dillusional...

the Lakers have been classy since the break up while Shaq has been classless...

Half of LA was sick of Shaq when he left... he lost the other half (his supporters) through out this season

*This isnt opinion either... this is exactly how it went*


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

He doesn't talk about the team nearly as much as you people think he does. And while it may childish sometimes, most of his bashing the team came as a response to what someone in the Laker organization said. At least recently.


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

shobe42 said:


> plus the only reason most of us still talk about Shaq is he goes in the press on his little bitter tirades about our team on a near weekly basis... if u cant see that clearly then your dillusional...
> 
> the Lakers have been classy since the break up while Shaq has been classless...
> 
> ...


Exactly? Okay, prove that exactly half of LA was sick of Shaq when he left. Then I'll start taking you seriously.


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## MarioChalmers (Mar 26, 2004)

shobe42 said:


> here's an example i found real quick.. actually what caused me to post on this board.
> 
> [Q]These Laker fans crack me up man. They have all this animosity towards us because according to them we 'stole' their best player.[/Q]
> 
> we could care less about a team that think much more about themselves than they really are... a post was made on the board anti-lakers and we're gonna fite it... *we have no animosity, so that makes this post a generalization*


For every post that generalizes Laker fans, LakerLunatic makes three. So Heat fans generalize Laker fans now? Now *that's* a generalization if I ever saw one. And of course, that statement you found is completely false, and I agree with whatever you say to prove him wrong.


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## Cap (Nov 5, 2003)

DBurks2818 said:


> This whole Phil Jackson thing is funny. Last year, Buss took Kobe's side in the Kobe-Shaq/Phil feud and let Phil and Shaq get away (Shaq had to be traded regardless, people. If Buss holds on to Shaq he can't resign Kobe because Kobe wouldn't stand being the second option any longer. Don't put this all on Shaq) because Buss didn't care for Phil's "slow" offense anymore and Kobe didn't want to cooperate with either of them.
> 
> Buss and Kobe go on to suffer their worst season in a decade (every team had injury problems, don't fall back on that excuse) and now finally see the value in winning basketball games so Buss wants to go back to the same coach he let go one year earlier. I lost a bit of respect for Phil for coming back into the same organization that felt they'd be better off without him such a short while ago.


I think you've lost respect for Phil because you have it backwards; Phil didn't want to stay another year. He says in "The Last Season" that he'd only stay if he was offered $12M per, which he said was basically his way of telling Buss you'll have to empty out your checking account to keep me another season. Jackson himself says he needed the year off, remember the dude is 60. Shaq wasn't coming back whether Kobe gave the Lakers the OK or not; dude didn't have any respect for the organization (Kupchak especially, and Buss is very tight with Kupchak), and of course Shaq never worked out or asked for a reasonable extension (MAX or death). Fact of the matter is, and I know people hate to believe it, but Kobe had very little to do with the breakup. Phil Jackson being hired as Lakers head coach again is simply one of the many events that points to Kobe's impact being minimal. 



DBurks2818 said:


> He doesn't talk about the team nearly as much as you people think he does. And while it may childish sometimes, most of his bashing the team came as a response to what someone in the Laker organization said. At least recently.


That's not entirely accurate. Since joining the Heat, I'd say 1 out of every 10 comments Shaq makes about the Lakers is in response to something the Lakers organization said, maybe less than 1 out of 10.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

gian said:


> For every post that generalizes Laker fans, LakerLunatic makes three. So Heat fans generalize Laker fans now? Now *that's* a generalization if I ever saw one. And of course, that statement you found is completely false, and I agree with whatever you say to prove him wrong.


the heat fans in this thread have made generalizations... u even said u did based on what Lakerlunatic said...

also for that half of LA thing... c'mon, the first part of that post is what i was sayin is what happened and i challenge u to dispute that...

i am still waiting for that one guy to bring up how laker fans say Kobe is better than MJ and how we want Shaq to die


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## MiamiHeat03 (Mar 28, 2003)

go look at previous threads from months ago in NBA general and Lakers board were they have been flooded with Kobe vs. God(exageration) threads.

Maybe not this year because people have realized now that Kobe isnt a superstar that can carry a team on his back. Yet you lakers fan always try to defend Kobe but instead you end up hyping Kobe and making him look like the GOAT.


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

EHL said:


> I think you've lost respect for Phil because you have it backwards; Phil didn't want to stay another year. He says in "The Last Season" that he'd only stay if he was offered $12M per, which he said was basically his way of telling Buss you'll have to empty out your checking account to keep me another season. Jackson himself says he needed the year off, remember the dude is 60. Shaq wasn't coming back whether Kobe gave the Lakers the OK or not; dude didn't have any respect for the organization (Kupchak especially, and Buss is very tight with Kupchak), and of course Shaq never worked out or asked for a reasonable extension (MAX or death). Fact of the matter is, and I know people hate to believe it, but Kobe had very little to do with the breakup. Phil Jackson being hired as Lakers head coach again is simply one of the many events that points to Kobe's impact being minimal.


I understand now, but the fact still stands that Buss was tired of the slow triangle offense and didn't think he was worth it... and now he does, after they've gone through a losing season (The exact salary figures haven't been released yet right? But it's gotta be pretty close to 12 mil, I'd imagine).



EHL said:


> That's not entirely accurate. Since joining the Heat, I'd say 1 out of every 10 comments Shaq makes about the Lakers is in response to something the Lakers organization said, maybe less than 1 out of 10.


Could you give me some examples?


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

I wish Heat fans would stop whining and start talking more about their offseason and what their team needs to do. If they are so against Laker fans living in the past, they should too…their season is over too and we can even say who will be better next year at this point because the Heat will be losing half their team. At this point we can guess that the Heat will probably be better, but if the Heat can re-sign/replace their players and the Lakers make some good moves, who knows. I like the flexibility and the options the Lakers have compared to the Heat. The Heat are on the hook for $60 million in salaries for 05-06, which is more than they spent last season…how are they going to re-sign or replace Haslem without breaking the bank? If/when certain player opt out, what are they gonna do? I see some small threads in the Heat forum about offseason plans, but people don’t seem to realize that the Heat owner cant just sign so and so to the MLE and so and so to the LLE and veterans exception. Even these low salaries that are within the CBA cap structure will take the salary costs well above what the owner has spent in the past.


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## CrossOver (May 19, 2003)

MiamiHeat03 said:


> RIDICULOUS.
> 
> Lakers fans are known to be stubborn and doesnt know the difference between reality and illusional; example Kobe>> Jordan, Magic >> Jordan.
> 
> ...


Let's stop with the ****ing generalizations already. 

I started watching basketball in 84 because I loved watching Showtime. how do you know which Heat fan likes or dislikes the Lakers? when it was announced Miami was getting a team in 88, my allegiance changed to the hometown team. That doesnt mean however I immediately hated the Lakers for being the evil empire of baskeetball. 

I also remember alot of Heat fans wishing the Lakers as a team well when we traded 3/5ths of our starting lineup for Shaq. Don't confuse hating a teams fans for hating the team.


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## CrossOver (May 19, 2003)

jstempi said:


> I wish Heat fans would stop whining and start talking more about their offseason and what their team needs to do. If they are so against Laker fans living in the past, they should too…


I agree to a certain extent. This post was made in "retaliation" to a post made on the Laker board. the best course of action wouldve probably been to ignore it. Since it wasn't, we obviously have a bunch of Laker fans defending the honor of the Purple and Gold. 



> their season is over too and we can even say who will be better next year at this point because the Heat will be losing half their team. At this point we can guess that the Heat will probably be better, but if the Heat can re-sign/replace their players and the Lakers make some good moves, who knows. I like the flexibility and the options the Lakers have compared to the Heat.


You mentioned the Lakers having more flexibility, how much does the organization have? Kobe, Grant and Odoms contract are pretty big. Mihm, Caron, chucky are under contract as well correct? How much flexiblity after these things are taken into consideration will LA have? 5-6 million? I'm too lazy to look it up.



> The Heat are on the hook for $60 million in salaries for 05-06, which is more than they spent last season…how are they going to re-sign or replace Haslem without breaking the bank? If/when certain player opt out, what are they gonna do? I see some small threads in the Heat forum about offseason plans, but people don’t seem to realize that the Heat owner cant just sign so and so to the MLE and so and so to the LLE and veterans exception. Even these low salaries that are within the CBA cap structure will take the salary costs well above what the owner has spent in the past.


As far as our offseason goes the key move is resigning Halsem to a salary near the MLE. It doesnt count against us since we have his bird rights. Shaq will be paid what he is looking for. According to Micky Arison, Shaq is priceless. We still have the MLe to split up like we did last year or go after a bigger name FA like a Marshall, Daniels, SAR. DJ looks like he will resign. He's a careeeeeer journeyman who found his role on a championship caliber team. Next year if we go all the way, look for DJ to be rewarded by the front office. Dooling is as good as gone. I like his energy but he just doesn't know how to run an offense. 

Ironically, near the end of the article in the link, Arison mentions "It's been a year, and both of them should move on." He's speaking about Shaq and Buss. Maybe as fans we should too.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

CrossOver said:


> You mentioned the Lakers having more flexibility, how much does the organization have? Kobe, Grant and Odoms contract are pretty big. Mihm, Caron, chucky are under contract as well correct? How much flexiblity after these things are taken into consideration will LA have? 5-6 million? I'm too lazy to look it up.


Well, i am glad you asked. Dr. Buss is on the hook for $64 million as of now for 05-06 contracts. He spent $64 million this last year, so it would seem he could sign his draft picks with only and inflationary increase to his salary budget. Not bad. If he does add someone at the MLE, LLE, and veterans exceptions, he may have to buy out Vlade and trade away some expiring contracts to stay close to his salary budget of ~$64 million...he's got $14.5 million in expiring contracts he could trade away for slightly lower contracts/and or picks. It may not seem like much more flexibility, but having the team option on Vlade could allow Buss to afford an MLE signing without any significant payroll increase unlike the Heat's situation. Plus the only player the Lakers need to re-sign (if they want) is an inexpensive Luke Walton. The Heat have some serious issues in this area with needing to re-sign Haslem, Dooling, DJ, Mourning and a few other scrubs if they want em back.



CrossOver said:


> As far as our offseason goes the key move is resigning Halsem to a salary near the MLE. It doesnt count against us since we have his bird rights. Shaq will be paid what he is looking for.
> 
> According to Micky Arison, Shaq is priceless. We still have the MLe to split up like we did last year or go after a bigger name FA like a Marshall, Daniels, SAR. DJ looks like he will resign. He's a careeeeeer journeyman who found his role on a championship caliber team. Next year if we go all the way, look for DJ to be rewarded by the front office. Dooling is as good as gone. I like his energy but he just doesn't know how to run an offense.
> 
> Ironically, near the end of the article in the link, Arison mentions "It's been a year, and both of them should move on." He's speaking about Shaq and Buss. Maybe as fans we should too.


Yes, the Heat has the MLE, sure it wont count as far as luxury tax is concerned, but whoever is signed with the MLE will be a $5 million overall salary increase from last year and you still need to re-sign others. Also, you have Haslem's Bird rights, but that just means you can go over the cap to sign him...you will still have and overall salary increase plus you'll have to pay more luxury tax. And Marshall, Daniels, SAR will probably want all of the MLE if not more, not part of it. And BTW, DJ can opt out...they would need to reward him this year...I have not heard that he has decided not to.


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

Watson wouldn't need more than a fraction of the trade-exception/LLE/MLE, and DJ will most likely take his option (he's leaning toward it). Dooling will probably opt out, but he can be replaced by the aforementioned Watson, who is more of the pure point guard Miami needed to back up DJ. Mourning will resign for the veteran's minimum, as he's probably only going to play for one more year and he wants to play for Miami anyway. Woods and Wright will get playtime now that Anderson, Smith, ZhiZhi and Laettner are gone, and Haslem will be the only real player Miami will *need* to resign. The team will probably be even stronger next year.

Sure LA won't have to resign anyone other than Luke, but why would they want to resign any of them? And they may have expiring contracts, but getting something decent out of them (at least right away) is a fantasy.


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## CrossOver (May 19, 2003)

jstempi said:


> Yes, the Heat has the MLE, sure it wont count as far as luxury tax is concerned, but whoever is signed with the MLE will be a $5 million overall salary increase from last year and you still need to re-sign others. Also, you have Haslem's Bird rights, but that just means you can go over the cap to sign him...you will still have and overall salary increase plus you'll have to pay more luxury tax. And Marshall, Daniels, SAR will probably want all of the MLE if not more, not part of it. And BTW, DJ can opt out...they would need to reward him this year...I have not heard that he has decided not to.


Let's be realistic here. Any team with Shaq on it is going to be over the cap regardless. With that in mind, don't think Miami is making its financial decisions to pay as little luxury tax as it's primary objective. Riley can taste another championship and he basically has carte blanche to improve the squad and get it done. 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is we have a 2 million dollar trade exemption that can be packaged with players in a trade scenario. Butler, Doleac and the exception sounds just about right for a longtime vet looking to win a ring *cough* Marshall, SAR *cough*. If that could happen and the Heat pick up Daniels while grooming Wright and Woods into the rotation, well, Riles would deserve consideration for GM of the year. That squad would be nasty. This is all speculation though, but, it's basically to demonstrate the Heat isn't completely strapped in it's ability to improve the team in the offseason.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

CrossOver said:


> Let's stop with the ****ing generalizations already.
> 
> I started watching basketball in 84 because I loved watching Showtime. how do you know which Heat fan likes or dislikes the Lakers? when it was announced Miami was getting a team in 88, my allegiance changed to the hometown team. That doesnt mean however I immediately hated the Lakers for being the evil empire of baskeetball.
> 
> I also remember alot of Heat fans wishing the Lakers as a team well when we traded 3/5ths of our starting lineup for Shaq. Don't confuse hating a teams fans for hating the team.


thankyou


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

No problem Heat fans. Enjoy paying Shaq $120 million extension.


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

Lynx said:


> No problem Heat fans. Enjoy paying Shaq $120 million extension.


And what will you say when he takes a pay cut?


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## Drk Element (Nov 10, 2004)

DBurks2818 said:


> And what will you say when he takes a pay cut?


wow a 20 million dollar pay cut.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

DBurks2818 said:


> Watson wouldn't need more than a fraction of the trade-exception/LLE/MLE, and DJ will most likely take his option (he's leaning toward it). Dooling will probably opt out, but he can be replaced by the aforementioned Watson, who is more of the pure point guard Miami needed to back up DJ. Mourning will resign for the veteran's minimum, as he's probably only going to play for one more year and he wants to play for Miami anyway. Woods and Wright will get playtime now that Anderson, Smith, ZhiZhi and Laettner are gone, and Haslem will be the only real player Miami will *need* to resign. The team will probably be even stronger next year.
> 
> Sure LA won't have to resign anyone other than Luke, but why would they want to resign any of them? And they may have expiring contracts, but getting something decent out of them (at least right away) is a fantasy.


I doubt Watson comes to the Heat on the cheap. I haven’t heard DJ will likely take his option. Sure Mourning may be back for cheap. If they use the MLE on Haslem they wont pay luxury tax on him, but their team salaries will be higher than last year by that amount. If they just resign him and use the MLE on other players their salaries will be even higher and they will only have to pay luxury tax on Haslem. And assuming what you are saying is all true the Heat still would need to sign 3-4 more players which even at the veterans minimum would increase the overall salary costs of the team. 



CrossOver said:


> Let's be realistic here. Any team with Shaq on it is going to be over the cap regardless. With that in mind, don't think Miami is making its financial decisions to pay as little luxury tax as it's primary objective. Riley can taste another championship and he basically has carte blanche to improve the squad and get it done.
> 
> One thing that hasn't been mentioned is we have a 2 million dollar trade exemption that can be packaged with players in a trade scenario. Butler, Doleac and the exception sounds just about right for a longtime vet looking to win a ring *cough* Marshall, SAR *cough*. If that could happen and the Heat pick up Daniels while grooming Wright and Woods into the rotation, well, Riles would deserve consideration for GM of the year. That squad would be nasty. This is all speculation though, but, it's basically to demonstrate the Heat isn't completely strapped in it's ability to improve the team in the offseason.


Minimizing luxury tax may not be a primary objective, but like you said, lets be realistic…it is a factor and so is the overall salary budget of the team. The owner is not likely going to say “what the heck, lets spend $15 million more this next year”. Marshall and SAR are free agents correct? I doubt someone is going to use their cap room to sign and trade Marshall or SAR to the Heat because they are so eager to get Butler and Doleac. And trading away a trade exception just allows you to get more salary back in return since you are over the cap…you still have an increase in salary and you have to pay luxury tax on that. So now the Heat are gonna pick up Daniels? Okay, so they use the MLE and get Daniels increasing their salary to $65 million, resign Haslem making it $70 million and then they pick up Watson, Mourning and 1-2 others for the minimum putting the Heat at $75 million? That’s about $15 million more than last year’s salaries and about $5 or so million more in luxury tax. It really is fun/easy spending these owners’ money isn’t it?


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

jstempi said:


> I doubt Watson comes to the Heat on the cheap. I haven’t heard DJ will likely take his option. Sure Mourning may be back for cheap. If they use the MLE on Haslem they wont pay luxury tax on him, but their team salaries will be higher than last year by that amount. If they just resign him and use the MLE on other players their salaries will be even higher and they will only have to pay luxury tax on Haslem. And assuming what you are saying is all true the Heat still would need to sign 3-4 more players which even at the veterans minimum would increase the overall salary costs of the team.


Watson won't command a whole lot of money. Part of the MLE will be enough. DJones hasn't come out specifically and said he's staying or going, but you can tell in his interviews. With the situation he's in right now, I'd be willing to bet you that he stays (he'll want to make up for his ECF performance). And as for the need to sign 3-4 more players? Nope. This team is complete outside of needing a backup point guard. Don't forget that Woods, Wright, Doleac and Butler are still under contract. That covers every position except point guard.

And if they were able to get Daniels as you said in the second paragraph, there would be no need to get Watson. It's one or the other, not both. Wade could always be moved back over to point guard.


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## jstempi (Jul 23, 2003)

DBurks2818 said:


> Watson won't command a whole lot of money. Part of the MLE will be enough. DJones hasn't come out specifically and said he's staying or going, but you can tell in his interviews. With the situation he's in right now, I'd be willing to bet you that he stays (he'll want to make up for his ECF performance). And as for the need to sign 3-4 more players? Nope. This team is complete outside of needing a backup point guard. Don't forget that Woods, Wright, Doleac and Butler are still under contract. That covers every position except point guard.
> 
> And if they were able to get Daniels as you said in the second paragraph, there would be no need to get Watson. It's one or the other, not both. Wade could always be moved back over to point guard.


Shaq, EJ, DJ, Wade, Doleac, Butler, Wright, Woods, Mourning, Watson equals ten players plus one if you re-sign Haslem. Most teams carry 14-15 players on their roster and that is why I said 3-4 more would need to be signed even if at the minimum. 10-11 players is not a complete roster even if you have backups at all your positions with just 10-11 players. I guess we’ll have to wait and see on who signs and all, but that wasn’t even my original point. My point was budget flexibility and I think I’ve been clear enough. I am not really arguing who may or may not be willing to sign, I am just saying the owner is going to have to spend quite a bit more than last year if he wants to re-sign Haslem, get Watson, and sign Mourning and a few others to minimums. There is not much flexibility if the owner wants to only have an inflationary increase in total salary costs.


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## shobe42 (Jun 21, 2002)

DBurks2818 said:


> And what will you say when he takes a pay cut?


i'll say, "LOOK... a flying pig!!!"


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## clien (Jun 2, 2005)

this is the heats most popular thread 
wtf


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

shobe42 said:


> i challenge you to find two people who think Kobe is better than Jordan... there is always 1 crazy... people always say this about laker fans but we dont say it... i think it pisses u off that we dont
> 
> we have always complained about Shaqs work ethic it cost us two titles... probly cost yall 1... it has nothing to do with the heat
> 
> who said the heat wouldn't make the playoffs?? and crackheads dont count


This is probably the funnest thing I ever heard of.. Kobe better than Jordon.. Thats like saying Wade is better than Jordon. I'm a big Kobe Bryant fan, but I'm not blind.. Jordon was the master.....

And if they heat Made the playoffs last season, why wouldn't they do it this season? The trade as I've always understood it from the Heat end, was to bring in a major impact player and win a title this year.. While they lakers were supposed to begin rebuilding this season....


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

DBurks2818 said:


> I understand now, but the fact still stands that Buss was tired of the slow triangle offense and didn't think he was worth it... and now he does, after they've gone through a losing season (The exact salary figures haven't been released yet right? But it's gotta be pretty close to 12 mil, I'd imagine).



Dr. Buss had a lot of people in his ears on the Phil Jackson situation. Could have been the whole chanting durning the end of the season by fans "bring back Phil", or the season ticket holders meeting where Phil Jackson was the primary topic.. Or the Colapse of coaching on the Lakers this season and lack of great options. It seems logical. 

Buss is the type of person who has no problems reversing his position or stance on anything if he knows its what the fans really want and it will result in winning. The only exception being wasteful spending, which in my opinion Shaq at his age, weight, and motivational level (when he was a laker), was a waste of money to resign.

This season the fans wanted more by showing them that season ticket holders are going to start bailing by the dozens. The mere fact the LA media was so obsessed with Phil Jackson shows how much pressure was ultimately being put on Buss. Buss is a smart owner, his record shows as much and he gave the majority of fans what they wanted, a second coming of Phil Jackson.


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## Darth Bryant (Feb 1, 2005)

DBurks2818 said:


> And what will you say when he takes a pay cut?



I'd probably say that Shaq finally figured out that at his age, and career downward spiral he finally learned that he isn't worth the Max. Because simply put, if he doesnt and the Heat do sign him for max.. Your team will be in trouble.


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

DBurks2818 said:


> And what will you say when he takes a pay cut?


Don't be navie because that is what he was asked by the Laker management -- to take the paycut. He refused it. Of course, if he takes the paycut from Heat, he ain't going to be admit that. But that's a big IF, mind you.


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

Lynx said:


> Don't be navie because that is what he was asked by the Laker management -- to take the paycut. He refused it. Of course, if he takes the paycut from Heat, he ain't going to be admit that. But that's a big IF, mind you.


And he says I'm being "na<b>iv</b>e."

What has Shaq done all season? Blast Laker management and praise Heat management. Anything he had previously refused to do (Get into great shape, let star guard shine brightest, etc.), he's done this season. What would make Laker management feel even worse (And yes, it would)? Happily taking the lower salary that he had previously been offered from L.A., from Miami. I could easily see him saying something like "It's not about the money for me anymore, it's doing whatever is necessary for the team to bring a championship to Miami."


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## Lynx (Mar 6, 2004)

DBurks2818 said:


> And he says I'm being "na<b>iv</b>e."
> 
> What has Shaq done all season? Blast Laker management and praise Heat management. Anything he had previously refused to do (Get into great shape, let star guard shine brightest, etc.), he's done this season. What would make Laker management feel even worse (And yes, it would)? Happily taking the lower salary that he had previously been offered from L.A., from Miami. I could easily see him saying something like "It's not about the money for me anymore, it's doing whatever is necessary for the team to bring a championship to Miami."


:laugh: Yeah man, you really are. Naive 

He never came to camp in shape when he was in L.A. He was asked to take the paycut, he never did. Plus, he still got toast by pick and roll Detriot brought to the Finals - so there goes your talk about him being in shape. He still got injured. All things that were happening to him in L.A, got him in Miami too.

You made a good point though. If Shaq takes the paycut, he will offended by Laker fans not by the management just because he was asked here in L.A. to take it -- and he never did.

..and one last thing. Don't think I hate Shaq. In fact, I hated him being traded but at the same time, I hated how greedy he got. Then, started hated him when he dissed the fans. Never ever mess with the fans!


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## DBurks2818 (May 18, 2005)

He later apologized to the fans in an interview. I'm trying to find the article.

But it's tough to hate a guy who does this every year:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1953148

Edit: And don't remember this. 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1846193

He may have said it before he called the city 'fake' (common knowledge to those of us from L.A. anyway), but he *did* apologize after that and I'll keep looking for that article.


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## clien (Jun 2, 2005)

whenever i need a good laugh i just come hear and read some of the posts on this thread :yes:


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