# Who Should We Draft At #23?



## KVIP112 (Oct 31, 2005)

Who do you pick?


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## KVIP112 (Oct 31, 2005)

What do you choose?


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

aaron aflalo


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## EwingStarksOakley94 (May 13, 2003)

I believe I would beat my head into a brick wall if the knicks were going to pick from those 4.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

EwingStarksOakley94 said:


> I believe I would beat my head into a brick wall if the knicks were going to pick from those 4.


Then you better find some good head conditioner as Sean Williams will be coming to town if we can convince him there are some great opium dens in NYC


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

*Trade it for Ron Artest!* 

A realistic offseason for the Knicks would be the Coach telling all the Knicks young players that if the Knick Veterans dont get their act together and learn how to play with their fellow veteran teammate that he will let the young players play together to build a growth of Team-Play for the future of this Knick Team. 

With young players like Nate, Collins, Balkman, Lee, Frye, and Randolph Morris, they have the talent to carry this Knick Team to a much better season than just 33 WINS with some decent playingtime together. 

The addition of Randolph Morris talent with Channing Frye and David Lee in the Center/Foward position is great for this Knick Team if Coach Isiah start utilizing just these three players in a regular rotation together. But he wont because of his big million dollar contract investments in Curry, James, Malik, and Jefferies whom gets majority of playingtime. So for the Knicks young Bigmen to bring success to this Knick team two of Isiah big contract bigmen players must be traded for one player (Ron Artest). 

Many Knick-Fans has been down on Nate Robinson and Channing Frye for no reason other than Coach Isiah assignment roles for these (two) players this past season. 
Knick-Fans commented on Nate's maturity and decision making when not looking at the role Nate been giving to play alongside of Marbury & Francis this season. 
The same goes for Channing Frye role with Curry and Q.Rich on the court with him (Curry wants the middle on offense to score and Q.Rich want the middle on defense to rebound leaving Frye no time in the middle at 6.11). It is not hard to see that Marbury, Francis, Q.Rich, Jefferies, and Curry are all HALFCOURT-OFFENSIVE Players without a FASTBREAK running game in their bone. What does this do to fast running players like Nate and Frye who luv to take advantage of oponents that cant keep up with them on both sides of the court? It makes them mentally tired of watching slow veteran one dimensional teammates control the game. *All the Knicks young Players should ask to be traded this offseason.* When Jefferies was added to the Knicks lineup and rotation it was CHAOS in any system or play the team used in the frontcourt and backcourt. I still cant figure out what Jefferies was doing on the court to help his teammates in anything, but young players Frye & Nate had to put up with Jefferies in the game with them this past season with whatever playingtime they received.


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

Da Grinch said:


> aaron aflalo


I second that.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Poll is a little nutty*

In that it has oh Almond and pure shooter as options. Almond is considered the best shooter in the draft.

Take a chance on Nichols....his stock is rising.


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## EwingStarksOakley94 (May 13, 2003)

Anyone know anything about the foreign players in this draft?


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## urwhatueati8god (May 27, 2003)

Rudy Fernandez - Tall Monta Ellis with maybe a little less of a shot
Tiago Splitter - PJ Brown-esque at best. Could be a bust.
Marco Bellinelli - Allan Houston-like. It wouldn't be terrible if the Knicks picked him, but they really need perimeter defense and this guy doesn't have any of it.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

urwhatueati8god said:


> Rudy Fernandez - Tall Monta Ellis with maybe a little less of a shot
> Tiago Splitter - PJ Brown-esque at best. Could be a bust.
> Marco Bellinelli - Allan Houston-like. It wouldn't be terrible if the Knicks picked him, but they really need perimeter defense and this guy doesn't have any of it.


The Knicks have peremeter Defensive players in there young players, but they dont have the head coach that knows how to define it with creativity to the team.


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## Kiyaman (Aug 14, 2006)

The Knicks need to trade Jefferies for a shot-blocker, or they should've signed a shot blocker with last season MLE rather than Jared jefferies.


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## crazyfan (Dec 9, 2005)

Kiyaman said:


> The Knicks need to trade Jefferies for a shot-blocker, or they should've signed a shot blocker with last season MLE rather than Jared jefferies.



What's Jerome James for?


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## EwingStarksOakley94 (May 13, 2003)

urwhatueati8god said:


> Rudy Fernandez - Tall Monta Ellis with maybe a little less of a shot
> Tiago Splitter - PJ Brown-esque at best. Could be a bust.
> Marco Bellinelli - Allan Houston-like. It wouldn't be terrible if the Knicks picked him, but they really need perimeter defense and this guy doesn't have any of it.


Those are the 3 I'm semi-familiar with. It doesn't seem like Isiah is a fan of foreign players anyway, but it would be nice to grab one of these guys that can really make a difference as teams like the spurs and suns have done.


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## truth (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Poll is a little nutty*



alphaorange said:


> In that it has oh Almond and pure shooter as options. Almond is considered the best shooter in the draft.
> 
> Take a chance on Nichols....his stock is rising.


Once an orangeman always an orangeman


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Hey Truth....*

I've seen Nichols play tons and he is one of the best shooters I've ever seen. The guy can flat out scorch the nets from a LONG way out. Although his defense is taking some hits, you shouldn't believe it. He was SUs shut down defender and he did it well. Watkins is a must get in the 2nd. Trouble is, we don't have one. He is somewhat like Curry in that his game is not always in high gear intensity-wise but he is a very good defender and shot-blocker. Someone will get a solid center with him. If you're interested, I'll try to get you some links.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*For the curious...*

"In the NBA athleticism testing results for all positions, Demetris Nichols finished ranked 16th out of 80 players tested (the official results list 81, but Jianlin Yi did not take any of the tests) and the third best small forward. He was #1 in the entire camp in the lane agility drill at 10.39 seconds. Only a handful of players managed the drill in under 11 seconds, and nobody but DNic did it in under 10.5. Aaron Brooks was 2nd best at 10.57.

DNic would have placed higher, but his standing vertical and maximum vertical were both below the camp average at 28.5 and 32.5 inches, respectively. His body fat percentage was also a little high for his position at 6.2%. He measured only 6' 6.25" in his stocking feet but 6' 7.5" in shoes, not bad for a 3.

The only "name" small forward to be ranked ahead of him overall was Thaddeus Young, who was 7th. Reyshawn Terry was the other SF ranked higher than DNic, at #11. Nichols edged out supposed first round locks Al Thornton and Jeff Green who were #17 and #18, but he beat them by 3.5 and 4 points, a pretty wide gap. He also outperformed familiar names Curtis Sumpter (#31) and Jared Dudley (#44). Shockingly, there are two locks to be lottery picks whom the combine lists as primarily SFs and who did very poorly in the testing. Julian Wright came in at #66 and Kevin Durant at #78. Wright's measurements are very similar to DNic - height, body fat, vertical leaps - but he lags DNic in agility and is far behind in strength - he managed only 2 reps of 185 pounds in the bench press. DNic did exceptionally well, especially for a SF - 16 reps (compare to 17 for the ripped Jeff Green, and the combine average of just 12). Durant's performance was even worse. His standing vertical was 2.5 inches less than DNic's, his agility time was 2 full seconds slower, and he could not manage a single rep on the bench press."


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

*Re: Hey Truth....*



alphaorange said:


> I've seen Nichols play tons and he is one of the best shooters I've ever seen. The guy can flat out scorch the nets from a LONG way out. Although his defense is taking some hits, you shouldn't believe it. He was SUs shut down defender and he did it well. Watkins is a must get in the 2nd. Trouble is, we don't have one. He is somewhat like Curry in that his game is not always in high gear intensity-wise but he is a very good defender and shot-blocker. Someone will get a solid center with him. If you're interested, I'll try to get you some links.


Nichols is not worth #23, I've seen him play in person all 4 years of his college career. In fact I met him the first day I was on campus at some student orientation. Nice guy and all (he absolutley couldnt stand mcnamara, but thats a story for another day).

If YOu want DNich trade a future 2nd with some team to pick him up in the 2nd round. Shut down defender??? SU played zone and not nearly enough man to man to call him a shut down guy. Nichols is streaky, some days he's superman, and other days he just cant buy a bucket. THe difference is, players that struggle from the outside start penetrating and get to the FT line to get themselves going. 

Perhaps Nichols developed some better handles at whatever pre-draft academy he went to, but he rarely if ever goes to the basket. Once in a while he'll go to the post for a turnaround J, but he cant create his own shot. He gets the ball off a screen or spots up and shoots. At most he takes one dribble and pops the shot.

As for Watkins, someone will take a flier cause he's got size and good athleticism for that size. There's no question he's had an NBA body for years. But he's gentle, he doesnt have the mentality you want in a big man. I"ve had class with him and he's probably the least outspoken of all the athletes at Cuse. You dont have to have a mean streak but Watkins is soft. His offensive game is non-existent, he's a good defender but not good enough to overcome what he lacks on the offensive end. At this point he'll foul out of every game. He's gonna need some major work in the NBDL.

***As far as the workout stats go, i dont put much to it. YOu look at the past results, I dont think either Wade, Melo, Bosh, James finished even in the top 10 that year. Whoopee he beat DUdley who everyone knows is not athletic in the first place and SUmpter who had major knee surgery. And they all say that takes 2 full years before you fully recover. Greg Oden, the "freak of nature" ranked almost the same as durant.....so none of those #'s matter to me unless it's ridiculously alarming.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Do you read at all....*

The guy was FIRST in the lane agility drills....FIRST. And if you really watched him, you'd know he was Mr consistent this year. He had very few bad games. I think if you really talked to him as you say, you would have mentioned his severe stuttering problem he had early on. He still has it but has masterd it. You would also know that to a man, everyone connected in any way to the program says he has been the hardest worker they have seen. You would also know that he shut down Sumpter in man defense after he had gone wild against the zone. Everyone familiar with SU knows he is a very good defender. Yes, his handle is weak but a 6'8 great shooter who plays defense, is unselfish, and has no ego is valuable. He has a great chance of landing in the first. I suggest you check his stats.....#1 option at 19ppg and candidate for POY in the BE suggests he has game.

From Draft Exress:

"
Orlando Pre-Draft Camp: Final Recap
June 4, 2007
In terms of scoring the ball, Demetris Nichols was probably the most consistently impressive scorer here at the camp, showing just how deadly he can be as a shooter and how quickly he can put points on the board, going on a few scoring runs where he hit multiple shots in minutes. Looking at the final statlines of all the players here, one of the most notable ways a player really separated himself was how Nichols shot the ball from NBA three-point range. He hit a remarkable 9-of-13 from behind the arc, shooting a ridiculous .692. Other than Nichols, only one player at the camp even hit four NBA three-pointers.

Nichols is extremely confident with his outside shooting, and it’s interesting how in all the times we’ve seen Nichols in drills, both here at Orlando and at a private workout we viewed last week, he’s probably just as good a shooter in the real games, coming off screens, with a hand in his face, as he is taking place in the simulated drills. Other spot-up shooting forwards have come through this camp in recent years, with Steve Novak first coming to mind. Nichols did a good job in separating himself from these other players, in that it’s evident that he doesn’t consistently need players run for him and that he really makes the most of his possessions, finding open space on the floor and getting off a good shot attempt most times he touches the ball.

Nichols didn’t really impact the game in many other ways when he was on the floor, not filling up the stat sheet in any way other than scoring, but he played pretty good perimeter defense for the most part, showing he can play outside of Syracuse’s zone. Nichols didn’t do much to dispel the concerns about his ball-handling abilities, but he did make a few moves off one or two dribbles and got to the basket when there were open lanes, and he shows that he has the potential to improve his ball-handling over time.

The things that Nichols does excel at should definitely translate to the NBA, so there’s a very good chance he can make a contribution in his first year, coming off the bench and providing a scoring punch, as he doesn’t need much space to get off a high-percentage shot attempt from long range. Nichols will likely be an early second round pick in the draft, and it’s not tough to envision him having a Jason Kapono type season not too far down the road.
[Read Full Article]
Orlando Pre-Draft Camp: Day Three
June 1, 2007
The term “instant offense” certainly describes Nichols’ play so far in Orlando. His scoring totals have been unrivaled, and he is doing it with remarkable efficiency. Nichols is absolutely lethal as a spot up shooter, and has the length to get his shot off over most wing defenders. He is also good at making defenses pay for losing attention, capable of finding a soft spot in the defense and hoisting a shot before anyone can react.

The rest of Nichols’ game is less attractive, but he has the athleticism and length to contribute in other ways at some point. Nichols plays good defense at times, but could probably use his natural gifts to his advantage a bit more often in non-shooting areas. Nichols once again scored a large chunk of his points over a short period of time, but his shooting runs are proving to be game-changing here in Orlando. His team is now 2-0, and given the way he shot at Syracuse as a senior, it would be a surprise if Nichols didn’t light it up again tomorrow.


Orlando Pre-Draft Camp: Day Two
May 30, 2007
Demetris Nichols had a strong game to start off his week here at Orlando, living up to his expectations as one of the most highly touted players here. He had a typical Demtris Nichols game, putting points up on the board as quickly as he got touches, but not contributing much in any other statistical areas, though he did a solid job playing perimeter defense when his man got the ball.

As you can see from the statline, Nichols was very efficient in scoring his points, making the most off all his touches, as he’s not a player who consistently creates shots for himself. Nichols got out in transition and did a good job drifting to the open spaces on the floor, where his teammates got him the ball for his quick-release outside shot, which he knocked down almost every chance he got. Nichols scored 13 points in the first five minutes of the game by getting out in transition, finishing on lay-ups on the break, and even creating a fast-break himself, making an anticipation steal coming from behind his man, and dribbling the length of the court to lay the ball in the hoop. He played well in transition overall, not just scoring the ball, as he consistently was one of the first players on his team down the court, and also made some nice transition passing, even handling the ball in the open court when he needed to.

Nichols did try to mix things up a bit on offense, putting the ball on the floor more often than he did at Syracuse, though he wasn’t able to consistently score, but he didn’t force the issue either. On one possession he faked a shot before putting the ball on the floor in the lane, but he passed the ball to his teammate when he recognized a weakside defender coming over. On another possession he put the ball on the floor going left and went into a stepback jumper from the free-throw line, but he missed the contested shot. One of Nichols’ nicest plays on the day was when he dribbled left from the top of the key and went into a fadeaway jumper, but he got called for a conspicuous offensive foul for a push-off that might not have been there.

Defensively, Nichols was matched up with Dominic McGuire in the second half, and whenever he got the ball and tried to put in on the floor, Nichols did a good job moving laterally to stay in front of him, not letting him score the ball against him. He played aggressive man defense when his man had the ball in his hands, but got caught not boxing out at times when his man didn’t have the ball.
[Read Full Article]
NCAA Weekly Performers, 2/14/07-- Part One
February 15, 2007
The Big East’s leading scorer put on a fantastic display of shooting ability this weekend against St. John’s, practically doubling his 19.3 scoring average while showing off a nice array of long and mid-range shooting. Nichols has quickly gone from role player to offensive focal point for the Orange, and he’s done it in stunning fashion. While his points per game average has jumped up six points from 13.3 last season, his field goal and three point percentages have remarkably also increased, and significantly so. Usually when a player takes on a larger portion of offense, his percentages will drop, as he likely is forced to take some tougher shots, but Nichols obviously isn’t familiar with that trend. His field goal percentage on the year is at .483 while his three point percentage is at an outstanding .451, each up significantly from last season.

Nichols hasn’t made any wholesale changes to his game over this time period, as his game is still completely focused around his shooting ability, but he’s diversified his game so he is now reliable as more than just a spot-up shooter. Nichols has always shown flashes of ability with pull-up jumpers, fadeaways, and jumpers off curls, but he’s showing better consistency this season, hitting these tougher shots with much more regularity.

In this game against the Red Storm, Nichols was unstoppable at times, scoring on spot-up three pointers, coming off curls from mid and long-range, posting and facing up on the baseline, and going into a beautiful fadeaway jumper that no one was able to stop. Nichols’ release seems to be a tad quicker this year, and his motion turning into his shot when coming off curls is seamless and remarkably quick. His jump shot has a high release, consistent shooting motion, and he doesn’t show many problems adjusting when his shot is closely contested. In fact, he hit quite a few shots in that fashion over the course of this game.

For one stretch in the game, extending from the final play of the first half into the first five minutes of the second half, Nichols was virtually unstoppable. After hitting a spot-up three as time expired to close the first half, Nichols went on a scoring spree coming out of the gates at halftime. Nichols hit his first seven shots in the second half, most of which were contested. He hit three 3-pointers coming off curls, one long 2-pointer off a curl, two fadeaway jumpers on the baseline, and had an impressive putback attempt where he ran in from behind the free-throw line to make the tip-in.

While Nichols was hitting his jump shot nearly at will, he didn’t show much in terms of a dribble-drive game, which is not a consistent staple in his game. He doesn’t have a very quick first step, but due to the respect he garners for his shot, he’s able to use the threat of his shot to get a step at times, which he did a few times in this game to draw a foul. Finishing in the paint is not something Nichols excels at, but he’s improved his mid-range game so that he’s able to take advantage of these opportunities the defense affords him.

Defensively, Syracuse actually played man-to-man defense on quite a few possessions over the course of the game, so it was easier to get an accurate gauge on Nichols’ defensive abilities than in the past. Matched up against athletic swingman Anthony Mason Jr., Nichols showed no problems chasing him without the ball, getting through screens relatively easily and not giving up too much space to his opponent. Unfortunately, no St. John’s player made an attempt to take Nichols off the dribble, so his lateral quickness is still very much in question, as it’s normally masked by Syracuse’s zone defense. To Nichols’ credit, he showed good awareness in the zone defense, was active on the weakside when he needed to be, and did a good job boxing out on the defensive glass."


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Now Watkins.........*

6'11...250-255. Tremendous athlete for his size. Great shotblocker who has worked to stay planted on fakes. Was absolutely dominant at times when motor was running. Very hard worker which is indicated by his ripped condition. Has nice touch to fifteen and has shown flashes of offensive potential, however, SU does not feature centers typically so I'm sure there is more to come. Has been dominant on the glass as well at times. Late bloomer. If IT can get him motivated the sky is the limit. Biggest questions are his motor. Definite 2nd rounder. 

*As of today, he was last measured at 6'10+ in shoes and weighs 241 with 7% body fat.


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## MVP_23 (Jan 29, 2006)

i say y'all draft a pg like pruitt or crittenton and trade stephon marbury...or jus package the 23rd pick in a trade


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

*Re: Do you read at all....*



alphaorange said:


> The guy was FIRST in the lane agility drills....FIRST. And if you really watched him, you'd know he was Mr consistent this year. He had very few bad games. I think if you really talked to him as you say, you would have mentioned his severe stuttering problem he had early on. He still has it but has masterd it. You would also know that to a man, everyone connected in any way to the program says he has been the hardest worker they have seen. You would also know that he shut down Sumpter in man defense after he had gone wild against the zone. Everyone familiar with SU knows he is a very good defender. Yes, his handle is weak but a 6'8 great shooter who plays defense, is unselfish, and has no ego is valuable. He has a great chance of landing in the first. I suggest you check his stats.....#1 option at 19ppg and candidate for POY in the BE suggests he has game.



you gotta do your research man, first off i'm never gonna hold the way he speaks against him. THere are plenty of athletes that cant talk in complete sentences and that has nothing to do with how they perform. Since you from the area, think back to Kenyon Martin, i dont see the connection between stuttering and raising your level of play.

Once again those camp drill #'s dont mean anything to most people. You think those lanes are going to be empty during the games? I"m sure nichols wasnt bumped around, running around people during those lane drills. I"m sure his #s in the lane drill were better then steve nash's too whenever he worked out. I know he's a hard worker, where did i ever call him lazy? Gmac was the hardest worker of the, all, doesnt mean just cause you work hard you'll make it. 

He aint gonna D up the likes of Sumpter and Anthony Mason JR in the pros. Yes he was the Big East player of the year but this has got to be one of the weakest years as far as talent goes in the big east in years. 

Mr Consistent? No way, check the stats, and i dont care about the first couple weeks when Cuse played these cupcake teams. Lets go straight to the big east, 

VS Pitt 4-15 11 pts, bad game

@ MArq 5-16 (2-7 3pt, 5-9 FT) 17 pts, 5 TO, Bad Game

@ Rut 4-8, 12 pts 7 boards, ok game at best
vs Nova 8-12, 23 pts, solid game
vs Cinci 7-12 22 pts, solid game
@ ST Johns, 5-14, 12 pts, bad game
@ Louisville, 5-14, 15 pts, bad game
vs ND, 10-19, 29 pts, solid game
Depaul, 3-10, 8 pts, Bad game (thank god devendork and rautins had career games)
@ Conn, 8-16, 20 pts, solid game
vs ST Johns, 14-24, 37 pts, unreal game
@ South Florida, 2-8, 8 pts bad game, (didnt even have a fg in the entire first half)
Conn, 7-20, 20 pts, he's gotta be more efficient, but not a bad game because he came thru with a couple shots late
@Prov, 7-20, (4-12 3pt) 18 pts, big 3 late, but gotta be more efficient
Goergetown 6-16, 22 pts, ok game
@ Nova 2-13, 12 pts, not good
Conn, 8-17, 28 pts, great game, 
@ ND 5-14, 17 pts, bad game

I aint gonna go into the NIT because its much of the same. SO you have 18 big east games and nichols performed well in roughly half of those games. How is that consistent? YEa he got his pts, but you jack up 20 shots a game you'll probbaly hit enough to get 15 or so pts. I dont hate the guy, i'm just saying he's not worth the #23 pick


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

*Re: Now Watkins.........*



alphaorange said:


> 6'11...250-255. Tremendous athlete for his size. Great shotblocker who has worked to stay planted on fakes. Was absolutely dominant at times when motor was running. Very hard worker which is indicated by his ripped condition. Has nice touch to fifteen and has shown flashes of offensive potential, however, SU does not feature centers typically so I'm sure there is more to come. Has been dominant on the glass as well at times. Late bloomer. If IT can get him motivated the sky is the limit. Biggest questions are his motor. Definite 2nd rounder.
> 
> *As of today, he was last measured at 6'10+ in shoes and weighs 241 with 7% body fat.


come on, if you watch the SU games like you seem to do, you know you dont wanna see watkins shooting 12 footers much less 15 footers. SU doesnt feature centers because they never are able to recruit one good enough to be featured. His mentality has to change, i just dont know if he loves the game enough to motivate himself to become a serviceable center. I"m not saying he's a bust, i'm just saying at best mid to late 2nd round pick for Watkins


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Read the article....*

I trust them over you. I KNOW he can play defense. I saw every game but 3 of them this year and nearly most of his career. He has always been a very good defender so I'm not sure why he has that knock. I didn't say his stuttering had anything to do with his game, only that if you supposedly talked to him in his frosh year, you would have noticed it and mentioned it. It was that bad. The point of the drills is to show his athleticism. He had the quickest feet of any guy there. You think that doesn't matter? Seriously? He fought through picks with ease.He was the best shooter at every workout camp. Every one. By far. Nothing? He was a marked man for SU as they really had little else. Still nothing? Double figure rebounds a few times and averaged 5.4 out of a zone. No love? Nichols has 2 weaknesses: his handle is not great and his off the dribble game is so-so. He will improve both and already has made large leaps according to those who have seen him both pre and post camp. I'm not saying he is a star. I'm saying he is super solid with a chance to be a very good player. He would provide the Knicks things which they sorely lack.

And BTW, those drills mean TONS. Otherwise they wouldn't even bother. They are another means of figuring potential.

Also, I see you left out the non-conference games....

7-10
4-8
2-10
5-11
7-15
7-14
7-12
2-14
9-16
11-16
12-18
10-22
6-12
9-16

They don't count? Even the easy games are hard when you have a name. Everybody plays harder against top programs and SU is definitely one of them. You neglected to mention his sub par health for a few games. Not relevant? You would also notice that in some of those games you say were "bad games", he did other things...boards, steals, assists. If he had a 38-40 " vertical, he be a lotto pick. Just for the hell of it, show me a similar breakdown of someone you think is so much better. I'll save you the time. Kevin Durant also put up some clinkers. In fact, he shooting games look much like Nichols'. You are wrong, wrong, wrong.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*I absolutely don't disagree with your Watkins*

assessment....except he has a very nice touch to 15, as well as a turn around. What I WILL say is that he has Hakeem quickness and hops with soft hands. I saw him do a spin move that was so quick, I nearly dumped a deuce. Missed the shot but it was really impressive. I agree...mid to late 2nd, BUT if he ever learns to turn it on consistently, he will be a monster, and THAT is what makes him intriguing.


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## knickstorm (Jun 22, 2003)

*Re: Read the article....*



alphaorange said:


> I trust them over you. I KNOW he can play defense. I saw every game but 3 of them this year and nearly most of his career. He has always been a very good defender so I'm not sure why he has that knock. I didn't say his stuttering had anything to do with his game, only that if you supposedly talked to him in his frosh year, you would have noticed it and mentioned it. It was that bad. The point of the drills is to show his athleticism. He had the quickest feet of any guy there. You think that doesn't matter? Seriously? He fought through picks with ease.He was the best shooter at every workout camp. Every one. By far. Nothing? He was a marked man for SU as they really had little else. Still nothing? Double figure rebounds a few times and averaged 5.4 out of a zone. No love? Nichols has 2 weaknesses: his handle is not great and his off the dribble game is so-so. He will improve both and already has made large leaps according to those who have seen him both pre and post camp. I'm not saying he is a star. I'm saying he is super solid with a chance to be a very good player. He would provide the Knicks things which they sorely lack.
> 
> And BTW, those drills mean TONS. Otherwise they wouldn't even bother. They are another means of figuring potential.
> 
> ...


YOu had to be one of those people that thought GMAc would easily find a spot in the NBA. I was gonna bring up his stuttering at first but that has nothing to do with how he balls. YOu want me to tell you how far he drove the golf ball when he took beginner's golf PED 261 with craig tanner too?? *Trust who you want, but the very people you keep quoting about Nichols say he's early 2nd at best.* If those combine reuslts did mean "tons" then Kevin Durant just lost his spot as the 2nd overall draft choice.

So he can shoot the ball, i never disputed that. But you'll need more than that to be #23 worthy. Steve Novak could shoot the ball lights out, when did he get drafted? Those drills you keep bringing up are the same drills that had chris paul ranked slower than Sean May and Wayne SImien. It's the same drills that marked Monta Ellis as the worst athlete that worked out in 2005. Ray Felton ran a 11+ in the lange agility drill, you telling me Nichols got quicker feet than Felton? In game situations you're not gonna go back and forth, you'll have to go quick and in the right direction of where the defender goes, I just havent seen Nichols stay in front of a quality college player, one that's worthy of a 1st round pick anyway. Sumpter and Mason Jr will be lucky if they even sniff the bench on an NBA team.

Marked man?? Let's not get carried away. He got plenty of help from Devendorf and Rautins stepped up big time. WHen he was putting up bricks it was those 2 keeping SU in games.

Of course i left out non conference games, cause they didnt play anybody and did almost all of it at home. SU had one of the worst non conf schedules and it cost them a tourney spot. Even the easy games are hard? come on now, colgate, UPENN, who D'ed him up in those games? I"m sorry when you have to play a 6'6'' or 6'7'' guy at center, I cant praise you for abusing that team. How much better does UPENN play when they're "playing hard".

YOu have got to be out of your mind comparing him to KEvin Durant. Durant averaged a double double, 25-10 and is the reigning national player of the year. I dont care if Nichols was named Big East PLayer of the year when its obvious he isnt even the best player in the conference (see jeff green). You neglect to mention Durant got to the FT line more than twice as many times as Nichols did, and shot a better %age from the field. Durant was just as much of a marked man and played in a legit conference. THe Big East as mentioned was weak this year. And ohh yea, he's 3 FREAKIN years younger than Nichols Since you're not gonna do it yourself, i'll have to put some of durants game stats here.
Once again i'm gonna ignore non conference, lucky for you anyway, cuz Durant owned just about all those teams.

@ Col 13-23, 37 pts great game
Missouri 10-14, 34 pts great game
Oklahoma 10-17 28 pts, great game
OK State 13-31, 37 pts great game, yea he missed a lot, but he got to the line for FTs, you wanna give this mark bad game, you go ahead.
@Neb 10-18, 26 pts, great game
Baylor 9-18, 34 pts, great game
@ Tex Tech, 15-29, 37 pts, great game
Kansas State 13-21, 32 pts, great game
@ A&M 9-23, 28 pts 15 boards, yea they lost, you wanna give this grade a bad game, go ahead
Iowa State 6-16 17pts, bad game
OK State 8-16, 21 pts, good game
@Baylor 5-16, 20 pts, poor shooting game, but 9-10 from the line in the 2nd half.
Tex Tech 6-16 17 pts, bad game,
@ OK 9-14, 32 pts, great game
A&M 8-17 30 pts, 16 boards, great game
@ Kansas 13-22, 32pts great game
Baylor 8-24, 29 pts, ok game and i'll tell you why. off to a poor start then went 8-12 to finish the game and lead Texas to a tight win.
OK State, 11-24 26 pts, good game
@ Kansas, 12-30, 37 pts, good game


SO you got 19 games there, and you have 3 bad games, maybe you can stretch it to 4-5 but thats it. Like i said, when durant's stroke isn't working he gets to the line. Nichols cant do that. If you think he's super solid like a Bostjan Nachbar then i'll agree with. As far as I see, that's his ceiling, if he can be a Bostjan Nachbar, that's more than enough from a 2nd round pick which he'll most likely be.


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