# Who Would Make the Best Immediate NBA Player?



## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

What NBA-eligible (i.e., no Ricky Rubio) player currently in a European league, regardless of his contractual status with his team, would make the best immediate NBA player? He can be from anywhere, but has to be playing in a European league and old enough to be in the NBA. He can be a former NBA player or someone who has never come over. And remember, we're not looking for long-term potential here, but the ability to contribute in his first season.

I've included some options above, but feel free to add others. And be sure to explain your choice.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

I really like Diamantidis and hope he will decide to give it a shot after the Olympics. He is a fantastic defender and that is something that should translate to the NBA although his offensive game might not make it possible to be more than a backup.


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## HB (May 1, 2004)

I'd go with Planinic. He shows flashes of actually being a capable NBA player, and being a 6'7 point guard makes him very versatile. Confidence is really his biggest problem.


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

I like Diamintidis a lot, too, but interviews with him that I've read in the past three or four years indicate he doesn't have much, if any, interest in coming over.


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

HB said:


> Planinic. ... Confidence is really his biggest problem.


If memory serves, I read that nightclubs may have been his biggest problem.


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## Vilius (Nov 13, 2006)

I'd say Ramunas Siskauskas. He's type of a player that would fit in NBA. He's quick, individually strong, has a good jump shot, can carry the game on his own shoulders. Spurs wanted him at some point but their offer wasn 't serious. I think he will get more attention if he becomes Euroleague MVP this season.

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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

I've never thought of Siskauskas as athletic enough at his height--he's just about 6-6, right?--to be a good NBA player. But I could be wrong.


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## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

Fizer Fizer Fizer Fizer Fizer. Assuming his injury doesn't have permanent effects, of course. 

He has the strength to play down low in the NBA, and if he hadn't been caught in a sticky spot with the Bulls way back when, he might never have left for Europe to begin with.


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## Vilius (Nov 13, 2006)

The official Euroleague site says that his height is 198cm. So yes you are right about his height.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Fizer could be a backup in the NBA,but he's not going to make an impact.He's a low post player who lacks the height to play in the post in the NBA.Why is Ilyasova back in Europe?I thought he showed some real promise with the bucks.He certainly looked like an NBA player when I saw him play.


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## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

^ But he'd be an _immediate _rotation backup. I don't see anyone else fitting in so seamlessly into a team, as a starter or as a backup.


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

Yeah, there is really no question at all that Fizer can contribute in the NBA. Hell, he's got a career NBA scoring average of 9.6 ppg spread over 289 games in six seasons. He can score in the NBA.


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

I voted Diamantidis, by the way. If he can speak English (I don't know if he can), he would be an immediate asset. He is such a quick player, great defender, good rebounder, good passer, and I think he could score some points in transition with the right team. I think about him in a Phoenix or Toronto-type team and just grin. He could come off the bench and play a solid 20-25 mpg.


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## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

Diamantidis is a good pick. My only worry would be how long it would take to adjust his defense to the pace of the NBA and the speed of its players.


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

I guess I just think of what he looked like against the Americans he faced in the '04 Olympics and can't imagine him struggling much, especially if he were coming off the bench and defending primarily backups. Granted, the quicker small guards might give him problems, but you can always put him on shooting guards, too, depending on your team's situation.


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

luther said:


> I voted Diamantidis, by the way. If he can speak English (I don't know if he can), he would be an immediate asset.


He can. Here is an interview (in English) with him and Jasikevicius.

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## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

luther said:


> I guess I just think of what he looked like against the Americans he faced in the '04 Olympics and can't imagine him struggling much, especially if he were coming off the bench and defending primarily backups. Granted, the quicker small guards might give him problems, but you can always put him on shooting guards, too, depending on your team's situation.


I could see him being a good bench defender fairly quickly then - at least against shooting guards. He'd also have time to develop his offense while contributing defensively.


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## flip-flop (May 17, 2005)

I voted 'other', because my picks would be M. Smodis (CSK, F-C) and Nikola Pekovic (Partizan, C).


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

sadam said:


> I voted 'other', because my picks would be M. Smodis (CSK, F-C) and Nikola Pekovic (Partizan, C).


Pekovic doesn't count for this thread because he'd have to declare as an early entrant--we're just talking guys who are eligible. Good choice with Smodis.


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## croco (Feb 14, 2005)

I agree, Smodis is a good choice, he can play. However I'm not sure if he will ever come, his salary is one of the highest in Europe if I remember correctly.


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

croco said:


> I agree, Smodis is a good choice, he can play. However I'm not sure if he will ever come, his salary is one of the highest in Europe if I remember correctly.


Plus, he is getting up there in years; if he doesn't do it soon, it's going to be too late.


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## Boris (Jun 30, 2005)

ilyasova, ukic, haslisp, andersen, smodis, pekovic, lavrinovic brothers, javtokas, spliter, lakovic and healty vujcic


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

^ You call that choosing "the best"?


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## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

^ If you combine them all, then it's definitely true!


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## Boris (Jun 30, 2005)

luther said:


> ^ You call that choosing "the best"?


no, just numberit ones who could be good immediate nba players.best? that is to hard to tell

sorry i got off topic :biggrin:


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## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

It's a good start. Do you have a favorite out of that group?


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## Boris (Jun 30, 2005)

maybe Haislip from Unicaja. I think that in team that fits he could be starter in short time


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## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

As in Marcus Haislip? I haven't seen him play lately. I know I didn't think highly of him a few years back in the NBA, but I hear he's been much better. Didn't he win MVP or something a year ago?


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## Boris (Jun 30, 2005)

don't know what he won but I saw him this year. he impruved litle fundamentaly and plays more under controle this year. one word is that he is litle bit smarter then he was. fizicley he was allways nba player. still he makes stupid mistakes but les then he was


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

I have never liked Marcus Haislip. He seems like a waste of physical ability to me, although if he's playing smarter, that's good for him. I watched him in summer league a couple of years ago (he was with Indiana's entry, I think) and he was just an embarrassment, not playing smart or hard like someone trying to make a roster should.


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## Boris (Jun 30, 2005)

luther said:


> I have never liked Marcus Haislip. He seems like a waste of physical ability to me, although if he's playing smarter, that's good for him. I watched him in summer league a couple of years ago (he was with Indiana's entry, I think) and he was just an embarrassment, not playing smart or hard like someone trying to make a roster should.


that is true, still does not play hard


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## Rule_By_His_Own_Hand (Jun 20, 2006)

Spanoulis, Spanoulis, Spanoulis, Spanoulis and it's not even close. He just needed the right coach and he got the worst possible one for him.

Euroleague and NBA clips:

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Euroleague/NBA/and Greece against USA clips

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He's on a higher talent level than anyone in Europe he just got screwed in Houston. He could be prime time in NBA but sadly this is likely to never happen now.


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

I disagree that he could be "prime time" in the NBA, although I guess it depends on how you define the term. But I do believe that he's a legitimate NBA player whose role with San Antonio would have been worthwhile, unlike his time wasting away on Houston's bench. It's a shame he's apparently soured on the NBA. It's a shame so many good European players--him, Papaloukas, Jasikevicius, Bodiroga, Rigadeau, Diamantidis, Planinic, Welsch, Macijaskas, Ilyasova, Markota and more--either had experiences they didn't like or chose altogether not to try it. I understand it, but it's still a shame for those of us who want to see all the best players possible in the NBA.


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## Rule_By_His_Own_Hand (Jun 20, 2006)

luther said:


> I disagree that he could be "prime time" in the NBA, although I guess it depends on how you define the term. But I do believe that he's a legitimate NBA player whose role with San Antonio would have been worthwhile, unlike his time wasting away on Houston's bench. It's a shame he's apparently soured on the NBA. It's a shame so many good European players--him, Papaloukas, Jasikevicius, Bodiroga, Rigadeau, Diamantidis, Planinic, Welsch, Macijaskas, Ilyasova, Markota and more--either had experiences they didn't like or chose altogether not to try it. I understand it, but it's still a shame for those of us who want to see all the best players possible in the NBA.


You have to think about the NBA though. Wider court, longer 3 point line, more man on man defense, more spacing in offense, protected area under the basket for the offensive player, NO HAND CHECK RULE. The NBA is tailor made for Spanoulis just like it is for Tony Parker, but Spanoulis compared to Parker is bigger and stronger, better court vision, better passing, better play making, better shooter, a lot more shooting range. He's also a better defender than Parker. Spanoulis is like Barbosa with Nash play making.

Spanoulis' game is not made for the Euroleague it's made for the NBA just like Manu's game is more for the NBA than Euroleague. Jasekivicius is too slow for the NBA while Spanoulis is Parker/Barbosa quicks, it's really baffling to me how Spanoulis failed in NBA to be honest. If a player of his level rides the bench in the NBA it gives me no hope at all for Belineli and Rudy and them.


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

I think you're really overrating Spanoulis. I like him. But come on, he's not as quick as Barbosa or Parker, and he's not a Nash-like playmaker. And he's not a great shooter for the position in the NBA. He's good. I already agreed that he belongs in the NBA. But really...you're making him into a god.


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## Rule_By_His_Own_Hand (Jun 20, 2006)

luther said:


> I think you're really overrating Spanoulis. I like him. But come on, he's not as quick as Barbosa or Parker, and he's not a Nash-like playmaker. And he's not a great shooter for the position in the NBA. He's good. I already agreed that he belongs in the NBA. But really...you're making him into a god.


At the Acropolis Tournament him and Tony Parker played each other straight up all game long on offense and defense. Spanoulis literally DOMINATED him for the entire game on both ends of the floor. 

There are players in Europe that have not yet peaked in fact have scratched the surface of their talent, Schortsiantis, Rubio, Spanoulis are players that come to mind. And you have to keep in mind that every players develops differently and peaks at different ages and also keep in mind that if you had this discussion a few years ago no one would even be mentioning a player like Siskauskas, Diamantidis, Papaloukas, etc. but they GOT BETTER.

If you take all these guys that have come up in this topic to me IMHO Spanoulis is easily the one with the highest upside. We will see how things turn out over the next couple of years.


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

What you say about improvement, of course, is true. But unfortunately, I doubt we'll find out for sure how it turns out, as most of these guys seem unlikely to return (or go for the first time in some cases) to the NBA. Some of its personnel people seem to have soured on Europeans, and vice versa.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

If Spanoulis was half that good he'd have started at pg for the Rox.He wasn't competing against Magic Johnson or John Stockton.Let's face it...He couldn't get PT over some pretty mediocre players.Alston wasn't playing half as well as he has this year and there was nothing else worth spitting on between Spanoulis and the court...There's no way you can claim that JVG wasn't playing him for any reason other than he couldn't beat out those ahead of him on the depth chart.Van Gundy wants to win and every player on that roster wanted to win.All of them saw what Spanoulis did in practice and camp...I never heard any of them say Spanoulis was mistreated.


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

Well, there was talk at the time that JVG wanted Spanoulis to do a better job as a spot-up jump-shooter, which would clearly be a misuse of his skill. While it's hard to imagine any NBA caliber coach making such a terrible judgment, if it's true then you can blame some of it on the coaching. But I am inclined to agree that there's some excessive Spanoulis love going on...


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## Rule_By_His_Own_Hand (Jun 20, 2006)

Diable said:


> If Spanoulis was half that good he'd have started at pg for the Rox.He wasn't competing against Magic Johnson or John Stockton.Let's face it...He couldn't get PT over some pretty mediocre players.Alston wasn't playing half as well as he has this year and there was nothing else worth spitting on between Spanoulis and the court...There's no way you can claim that JVG wasn't playing him for any reason other than he couldn't beat out those ahead of him on the depth chart.Van Gundy wants to win and every player on that roster wanted to win.All of them saw what Spanoulis did in practice and camp...I never heard any of them say Spanoulis was mistreated.


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/4274775.html

ROCKETS NOTES: Spanoulis draws Nash comparison

By FRAN BLINEBURY AND JONATHAN FEIGEN
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

Are the Rockets ready for Steve Nasharopoulos of Athens?

As you would expect, progress is coming in small steps for Vassilis Spanoulis. The star of the Greek national team had 10 points, eight assists and four turnovers in 22 minutes against Milwaukee.

"Every day for me is a new lesson," Spanoulis said. "I learn new things every day about the NBA, because it's totally different than playing in Europe. Every day I'm learning my teammates a little better, and that makes things better for me."

Spanoulis' tallest teammate is quite impressed.

"He is great," said Yao Ming. "He can see the court. He always makes the right decision. He makes passes to the right people, and passes are right on target.

"Give him time, and I think he will maybe be like Steve Nash one day."


I think Yao knows how to judge him better than some fans that never even got to seem him play in the NBA or for just a minute here or there. Spanoulis was not playing because he got in a feud with Jeff Van Gundy. It doesn't matter who you are if you piss of Van Gundy you do not play. This is the guy that tried to bench Marcus Camby in New York because Camby questioned him once and the Knicks ownership had to threaten to fire him if he did not play him. He then later quit on the team.

This is the same coach that when the trainers in Houston told him Bonzi Wells could not get to the weight Van Gundy set for him in order to let him play games without playing actual games to get in "game shape" he had to drop the last 10 pounds Van Gundy wanted him to and could only do it by actually playing............Van Gundy's reaction was to BAN HIM FROM THE TEAM and make sure he could not have contact with the team during the playoffs.

And the reason Spanoulis got in a feud with Van Gundy was because early in the year his mother tried to commit suicide in Greece. The doctors called Spanoulis and he was informed that she was threatening to try suicide again if he did not return to see her. Spanoulis requested a leave of absence from Houston and while the owner and Gm granted it the coach Van Gundy did not. He claimed something about it was not fair to rest of the team because in Spanoulis' case he would be leaving the country with no time table to return. Spanoulis went nuts and went to Van Gundy's dog house and once you go to Van Gundy's dog hosue you never come out.

In fact Van Gundy's response to this was to MAKE FUN of Spanoulis' mom in the Houston papers. He gave an interview and told them to publish it and they did "Spanoulis' mommy has been calling the Rockets GM begging to please let her son go back to Greece."

Believe it or not the Rockets GM and the Houston reporter seemed to think it was funny and allowed it to be printed in that context NOT the context of a suicidal and mentally ill mother asking to see her son but rather as a spoiled Greek prima donna that "wanted his mommy" and "cried back to Greece and his mommy."

And sadly enough just about every NBA fan is making fun of Spanoulis for this. I guess the "cool" thing and the thing to "prove he's an NBA player" according to NBA fans would have been to just tell the doctor to tell his mom to slit her wrists and drop dead because his coach didn't think it was an important enough situation for him to take a leave.

There's a reason why Van Gundy got his rear fired in Houston and it's not just missing the second round. The owner of the Rockets openly stated he could not stand Van Gundy and that he was so sick of his arrogance and attitude.


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

A story from the local paper from before a guy arrives is hardly solid evidence. I know it quotes Yao, but what is he going to say? "The new guy is going to suck"? Believe me, as a Timberwolves fan, I've seen a lot of local press bull**** over the years. Seriously, you're painting Spanoulis as some sort of Parker-Nash combination. So basically, you're saying he's a near 20 ppg, 12 apg player. An all-star. And yet JVG would prefer to bench him entirely despite his team's point guard struggles... It's just not realistic. I believe JVG was stubborn and a little stupid, but that Spanoulis probably was expecting more than he deserved. He's probably a 10 ppg, 3 apg player on most teams. As for the thing with his mother, I don't know anything about it.


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Coach's get paid to win and they get fired for losing.JVG is a pretty decent coach,he's got a coaching staff and he's got 14 other guys on the roster...All of whom saw what Spanoulis did in practice...If he'd deserved more minutes than he got all those guys would have told the entire world because they all want to win to.It's absolutely ridiculous when you look at a player who fails to adapt to the NBA and you start look at everyone else to take the blame.Spanoulis has to make JVG play him.All he had to do was look like he was halfway decent and that would have put him pretty high on Houston's PG depth chart.


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## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

Out of curiosity, has JVG ever coached a top-tier PG?


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## Diable (Apr 26, 2005)

Mark Jackson was the best pg that I ever recall JVG coaching


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## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

But by that point, he wasn't top-tier, if he ever _really _was.


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## Rule_By_His_Own_Hand (Jun 20, 2006)

Diable said:


> Coach's get paid to win and they get fired for losing.JVG is a pretty decent coach,he's got a coaching staff and he's got 14 other guys on the roster...All of whom saw what Spanoulis did in practice...If he'd deserved more minutes than he got all those guys would have told the entire world because they all want to win to.It's absolutely ridiculous when you look at a player who fails to adapt to the NBA and you start look at everyone else to take the blame.Spanoulis has to make JVG play him.All he had to do was look like he was halfway decent and that would have put him pretty high on Houston's PG depth chart.


http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/archives/2007/06/rockets_in_0708.html

Rockets in '07-'08: Bonzi, Spanoulis, Novak and... Artest?

Rick Adelman has coached enough college basketball to know a recruiting trick or two. That's important because his tenure with the Rockets begins with his trying to convince Vassilis Spanoulis to return for a second NBA season. When this season ended, the chances of that happening were roughly zero.

(The Rockets would have to release him from his contract. Had Jeff Van Gundy returned as coach, they probably would have done that. Now they're hoping he'll want to play for Adelman.)

*Van Gundy buried the young fellow at the end of his bench early in the season and didn't allow him to see daylight.* Even though the Rockets needed help at point guard, even though Rafer Alston wasn't a great penetrator, *Van Gundy didn't think Spanoulis was the answer.
*
*Upstairs, the men who signed him think otherwise.* They agree with Van Gundy that his shooting range must improve and that he needs to cut down on his turnovers. But they're still intrigued by his energy and play-making potential.


Yet every NBA fan claims he left the NBA because he was so poor he was "dropped out of the league" and as you wrongly assert JVG gave him a fair chance. In fact you will note this proves that the management wanted Spanoulis to the be the starter. In fact when Adelman was announced as the new coach the Rockets owner said one of the main reasons he fired Van Gundy was his refusal to play the starting point guard Spanoulis and that because of this they lost the player that everyone in management intended to be the starter for the years to come.

If you had any idea how good Spanoulis was you would think WAY differently of Van Gundy than you do.


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

"Every NBA fan claims he left the NBA because he was so poor he was 'dropped out of the league'"? I've never spoken to anyone who thought he wasn't NBA-caliber, and pretty much everyone I ever talked to thought JVG and he just didn't mesh. Then, when he was traded, all the press was that the Spurs wanted to make it a priority to keep him here, but that he wasn't interested in the NBA anymore. Drop the woe-is-me (or woe-is-he, really) stuff already. We get it. You love him. You think he's a brilliant superstar. Most people think he's an NBA caliber role player. Either way, if one bad experience soured him to the point that he won't try again, it's his own fault that we'll never find out.


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## Boris (Jun 30, 2005)

luther said:


> I disagree that he could be "prime time" in the NBA, although I guess it depends on how you define the term. But I do believe that he's a legitimate NBA player whose role with San Antonio would have been worthwhile, unlike his time wasting away on Houston's bench. It's a shame he's apparently soured on the NBA. *It's a shame so many good European players--him, Papaloukas, Jasikevicius, Bodiroga, Rigadeau, Diamantidis, Planinic, Welsch, Macijaskas, Ilyasova, Markota and more--either had experiences they didn't like or chose altogether not to try it. I understand it, but it's still a shame for those of us who want to see all the best players possible in the NBA.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> that is because european hot temper specialy on balkans. only rear people can deal with fact that he is role player or he is just 8 o 9th. player on team. it is just difrent type of coulture. it is more about wining and pride than about making mony and show. "if your not the best you are worst". And as for you american wanting strongest NBA here in europ just like you we want strong euroleague and national leaugs so I want to se more euro stars in euro game


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

I said I understand it. But following the logic of "if I'm not a key player, Im going to a league where I am featured," well, what if every 10th man in Europe did the same? Should we just abandon the team concept and allow for one-on-one so everyone can pretend he's the most important?


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## Boris (Jun 30, 2005)

i'm not saying that is good thing but it is our mentalty. It is very hard to be coach here. I remeber playing school basketball chapionsip in my town and our gym profesor was our coach but he was wrestling coach not having clue about BB so me as team capitan had to decide who is gona start and play. 4 guys I picked "loved" me the rest were very angry saying Im idot, I don't know thig about basketball bla, bla...Here evryone thinks that he is better then enybody else


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## Deke (Jul 27, 2005)

i picked jiri welsch. he was simply stunning in his nba career.


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## Coatesvillain (Jul 17, 2002)

Whatever happened to Milos Vujanic?


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

He underwent some serious knee problems a few years ago--I believe at least one torn ACL, and off the top of my head it seems maybe something else as well. (This was after he was drafted.) He played two games for Panathinaikos this season, then with Dynamo Moscow in the ULEB Cup competition. He averaged about 10 ppg, 2.4 rpg and 3.2 apg for Dynamo in 23 mpg, starting 10 of 13 ULEB Cup games. But at 28, it's safe to say he's no longer the future PG of the Suns (or, as he was called before that, of the Knicks).


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## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

^ Will he be playing on the national team?


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

Krstic All Star said:


> ^ Will he be playing on the national team?


I don't think the Serbian national team is too busy this summer.


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## luther (Nov 2, 2007)

Krstic All Star said:


> ^ Will he be playing on the national team?


I don't think the Serbian national team is too busy this summer. :boohoo2:


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## Krstic All-Star (Mar 9, 2005)

Oh yeah - I'd blocked that out. Now the pain begins anew...


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