# Please sticky until MLE used: Possible uses for the MLE



## 0oh_S0o_FreSh!! (Jun 3, 2006)

If trevor is available then yes... but i like deshawn stevenson or Aaron McKie player '06 Frank Williams team '06 Michael Finley player '06
Al Harrington '06 Fred Hoiberg '06 Michael Olowokandi '06
Alvin Williams player '06 Fred Jones '06 Mike Dunleavy '06
Amare Stoudemire '06 George Lynch '06 Mike James player '06
Andre Emmett '06 Jackson Vroman '06 Nazr Mohammed '06
Anfernee Hardaway '06 Jacque Vaughn team '06 Nene '06
Antonio Burks '06 James Posey player '06 Nick Van Exel '06
Antonio Davis '06 Jared Jeffries '06 Nikoloz Tskitishvili team '06
Ben Wallace '06 Jarron Collins '06 Pape Sow team '06
Bernard Robinson '06 Jason Collier '06 Paul Shirley '06
Bonzi Wells team '06 Jason Hart player '06 Predrag Stojakovic player '06
Bostjan Nachbar team '06 Jason Terry '06 Rasual Butler '06
Caron Butler '06 Jim Jackson '06 Raul Lopez '06
Casey Jacobsen team '06 Jiri Welsch '06 Reggie Miller '06
Chris Webber player '06 Joel Przybilla '06 Robert Traylor team '06
Chris Wilcox '06 John Salmons '06 Ron Mercer player '06
Chucky Atkins '06 Juan Dixon team '06 Ronald Dupree '06
Clarence Weatherspoon '06 Jumaine Jones '06 Ruben Patterson player '06
Clifford Robinson team '06 Justin Reed team '06 Sam Cassell '06
Curtis Borchardt '06 Kareem Rush team '06 Scot Pollard '06
Dajuan Wagner team '06 Kelvin Cato '06 Shawn Bradley player '06
Dan Dickau team '06 Lamond Murray '06 Speedy Claxton '06
David Wesley '06 Lindsey Hunter '06 Stanislav Medvedenko '06
DeShawn Stevenson player '06 Loren Woods '06 Tamar Slay team '06
DJ Mbenga '06 Lorenzen Wright '06 Tayshaun Prince team '06
Doug Christie '06 Lucious Harris '06 Tim Thomas '06
Drew Gooden '06 Mamadou N'diaye '06 Trevor Ariza '06
Eddie Gill '06 Mario Kasun '06 Vlade Divac '06
Eric Piatkowski '06 Matt Harpring '06 Voshon Lenard '06
Eric Williams player '06 Melvin Ely '06 Yao Ming '06
Francisco Elson '06 




thats the FA class for this season.. i didnt realize next season, we got H2O removing his big nasty contract, mo taylor an FA, jalen rose an FA, and junkyard dog..... thats cool.. n e wayz.. any names u like in this?


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## Mr. Hobbes (Jul 1, 2005)

Half those guys are re-signed, some suck, and the rest are in negotiations with other teams. I really don't think Thomas should be looking for new players right now.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

Houston's contract is already off of the Knicks salary figure.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

Uh....no...Houston is NOT off the books. Try again.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

Yes, he is. His contract was removed from the salary cap a year to the date after his final game, due to his retirement being due to injury.

At this point you're now going to post the obligatory Hoopshype.com link and accept it as gospel.

Well, it isn't.

Houston still gets his money. But his salary is not on the Knicks cap figure any more. And thus, they do not pay that amount in tax.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

H20's salary does count against the cap Dolan just don't have to pay luxary tax on it. 

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

Kitty said:


> H20's salary does count against the cap Dolan just don't have to pay luxary tax on it.
> 
> http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm




Houston gets paid, yes. But the salary is NOT on the cap.

(Ahhh, the obligatory link......)


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

Someone provide the link, because on Hoopshype it's listed as a 20 million dollar hit.

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

Hoopshype still lists Todd MacCulloch as being on Philly's cap, highlighting their lack of insight when it comes to this rule.

I'll demonstrate:

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

Question 53: *"How do retired players count against the cap?"*



> There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is not included in the team's team salary. This is when a player is forced to retire for medical reasons and a league-appointed physician confirms that he is medically unfit to continue playing. * There is a waiting period of one year following the injury or illness before a team can apply for this salary cap relief. If the waiting period expires mid-season (on any date prior to the last day of the regular season), then the player's entire salary for that season is removed from the team's team salary. *




Houston's knee injury was long term, but is officially judged as happening the day of hsi final game. His final game was January 2005. He later retired due to the condition. And as such, the Knicks applied for, and got, Houston's contract removed from their cap figure in January 2006.

And that's why they only paid $37 and not $57 million in tax last year.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

I googled that when I read Dog's first intial post, and read it. I still wasn't satisfied, so I'm looking for someone to link up an article with H20's name on it, and the Knicks confirming that they applied for the relief and did they receive it. Thanks!

Edit: Here is a link to another site and they count H20's salary as well. Am I missing something here? 

http://www.ezekielbearsports.com/bbs/pages/ezeygm2/salaries.htmhttp://www.ezekielbearsports.com/bbs/pages/ezeygm2/salaries.htm


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

That site is really, really inaccurate, on many salaries. On everything, actually.


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## EwingStarksOakley94 (May 13, 2003)

WTChan said:


> Half those guys are re-signed, some suck, and the rest are in negotiations with other teams. I really don't think Thomas should be looking for new players right now.


agreed


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

Alright I had to go through the crates and ask a good source. Dog and I was correct H20's salary still counts against the cap for next season.


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

MUAHAHAHA, Kitty don't play that. Anyways, at the top of my FA list........ You guessed it, Trevor Ariza.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

sham is right , thats why zeke used the amnesty exception on JYD, because the medical exception he gambled that would be used on H2O would save the franchise more $.

houston still gets paid but by the insurance carrier , he is not on the cap anymore because the team doesn't pay his salary so they aren't liable for a luxury tax either.

if zeke had used the amnesty on houston they would not pay the luxury tax , but still be liable for his salary.


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## USSKittyHawk (Jul 22, 2005)

:frenchy: I don't know who to believe.


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## Da Grinch (Aug 17, 2002)

how about believing this.



> HOUSTON’s RETIREMENT: You gotta hand it to Isiah Thomas, in choosing to release Jerome Williams during the summer makes a whole lot more sense now that Allan Houston has taken medical retirement. Houston’s decision to go out for medical reasons means insurance will cover 80 percent of his remaining salary, or $32 million over the next two seasons. The Knicks will pay the other $8 million; in addition they will likely avoid luxury tax on Houston’s deal, meaning they got two for one in the luxury tax department, making the total savings roughly $72 million, not a bad days work for Isiah, who as all of sudden looked like a genius nabbing Eddy Curry for castoffs, drafting Channing Frye, David Lee and Nate Robinson (Isiah told Phoenix which player to draft to complete the Kurt Thomas/Quentin Richardson trade)


 http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_14684.shtml


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

I'm telling you, I'm right. I've even posted the CBA FAQ from Larry ****. If you won't believe that (which you should), maybe you'll believe the actual official CBA instead?

http://www.nbpa.org/cba_articles/article-II.php#section4


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*I think this is what it means...*

Because it was medically related, it doesn't get assessed a luxury tax but his salary still counts against the team. It was the same with Longley and Johnson. Both retired because of health issues but continued to count against the cap.

To wit: H2O's salary will be paid at the rate of 80% by insurance and 20% by the team. His base salary will, however still count against the cap even the Knicks will be spared the luxury tax (which would not have been paid by insurance. I believe the 72 million figure is 2 years salary plus the tax, which is 100%.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

*Re: I think this is what it means...*



alphaorange said:


> Because it was medically related, it doesn't get assessed a luxury tax but his salary still counts against the team. It was the same with Longley and Johnson. Both retired because of health issues but continued to count against the cap.
> .


Until two years had passed, yes. At that point, the Knicks could apply for, and got, salary cap relief. This rule has been reduced to one year under the new CBA, and that year was completed 6 months ago.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

*Re: I think this is what it means...*



alphaorange said:


> Because it was medically related, it doesn't get assessed a luxury tax but his salary still counts against the team.


As posted before in the link to the CBA FAQ:

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#53



> There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is not included in the team's team salary....


.....team salary = salary cap figure, not tax calculations.......



> ......This is when a player is forced to retire for medical reasons and a league-appointed physician confirms that he is medically unfit to continue playing. There is a waiting period of one year following the injury or illness before a team can apply *for this salary cap relief. *


Note: cap relief, not luxury tax relief. The money is removed from the salary cap, althogh Houston continues to receive it.

And, because it is removed from the cap, it is then _also_ removed from tax calculations, if applicable (which it is with the Knicks).


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*More info.....*

From SportsProf(talking about HoopsHype): "Tool around the site and you'll see some oddities. Yes, Allan Houston's $19+ million does count toward the Knicks' salary cap, because somehow the Knickerbockers' brass forgot to take advantage of the veteran exception negotiated recently and cut Houston without his huge contract having to be counted against the cap. There's bad cap management (as in bad signings) and then there's terrible cap management (as blowing the rule that people thought was created with Allan Houston in mind)." 

And from Larry ****:

"18. What is the luxury tax amnesty provision?

This was a one-time opportunity for teams to waive one player and avoid having that player count in the team's luxury tax computation. Teams had the opportunity to use this provision between August 2nd and 15th, 2005 (right after the CBA went into effect). It could be used only for players signed or acquired prior to June 21, 2005, or for players already waived when the current CBA went into effect. A team could waive only one player using this provision.

Players waived using this provision are not counted in the team's team salary (see question number 14) when computing the amount of luxury tax the team owes (see question number 16). For example, if a team waived a player with a $10 million salary, and ended up $15 million over the tax level, then they would only owe $5 million in luxury tax (saving $10 million). However, the tax savings does not necessarily equal the player's salary -- if the team ended up just $3 million over the tax level then they would only save $3 million (owing no tax at all). If they ended up below the tax level, then there is no tax to be paid so they wouldn't realize any savings at all. On the other hand, it's possible for the net savings to exceed the player's salary. If a team's amnesty cut takes them from above the tax level to below it, then in addition to not owing any tax they will also receive a tax distribution.

The amnesty provision only affects the team's tax obligation. The team must continue to pay the player, his salary continues to count against their salary cap, and all other salary calculations are unaffected. However, the team may not re-sign or re-acquire the player for the length of the terminated contract. In all other respects, the player is treated just like any other waived player (see question number 54 for more information on waivers).

Although the amnesty provision was informally referred to as the "Allan Houston provision," the Knicks chose not to use it on Houston. The actual list of players on whom the amnesty provision was used is (* = players who were previously waived): Derek Anderson (Blazers), Vin Baker* (Celtics), Troy Bell* (Grizzlies), Calvin Booth (Bucks), Doug Christie (Magic), Derrick Coleman* (Pistons), Howard Eisley* (Suns), Michael Finley (Mavericks), Brian Grant (Lakers), Fred Hoiberg (Timberwolves), Aaron McKie (76ers), Ron Mercer (Nets), Reggie Miller* (Pacers), Alonzo Mourning* (Raptors), Wesley Person* (Heat), Eddie Robinson* (Bulls), Clarence Weatherspoon (Rockets), Jerome Williams (Knicks). The Bobcats, Cavs, Clippers, Hawks, Hornets, Jazz, Kings, Nuggets, Sonics, Spurs, Warriors and Wizards did not utilize this provision."

Bottom line is this: He is on the books until the end of the 2006/7 season.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*With regards to #53.....*

Show me a link where H2O was examined by a league Dr. and was determined to be unfit or a link stating that the Knicks applied for and recieved an exemption. I read the Post nearly everyday and have seen nothing along these lines.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

*Re: More info.....*



alphaorange said:


> From SportsProf(talking about HoopsHype): "Tool around the site and you'll see some oddities. Yes, Allan Houston's $19+ million does count toward the Knicks' salary cap, because somehow the Knickerbockers' brass forgot to take advantage of the veteran exception negotiated recently and cut Houston without his huge contract having to be counted against the cap. There's bad cap management (as in bad signings) and then there's terrible cap management (as blowing the rule that people thought was created with Allan Houston in mind)."
> 
> And from Larry ****:
> 
> ...



The amnesty provision is completely irrelevant to this. I know it wasn't used on him. There's a reason for this - if it WAS, then his salary would still be on the cap (as Jerome Williams's is, and will be until its end). However, because of his enforced medical retirement, his salary came off the books midseason (and didn't count for all of last season) anyway. Thus to use the provision on him would have been pointless.

I mean, I've provided the CBA link detailing what happens in these situaitons, and alongside it described how it applies in Houston's situation. In each order, you've coem back with something irrelevant. I'm not sure what more I can do here. But anyway, to summise:



Houston retired due to a medical condition.

He still receives his salary.

His salary, though, is removed from the cap figure. This also removes it from tax calculations.

His salary was removed from the cap figure in January 2006 as it was the year anniversary of his final game. As it was removed mid season, this means that his contract is off the cap for the entire season (and, obviously, all ones after that that are applicable).

THIS is why the Knicks only paid $37 million in tax last year, and not the $57 million it would have been had Houston's salary NOT been removed from the books.

*THE AMNESTY RULE IS IRRELEVANT TO HOUSTON'S CASE.* It was not used on him. It was not used on him, because it did not NEED to be used on him, as he was forced into retirement. The rule adopted it's "Allan Houston" nickname because, at the time, it was not official not even certain that Houston was going to retire. And so everyone thought it would be used on him. But he did. So they didn't. And, in doing so, saved themselves roughly $40 million dollars.



*Links:*


Houston's final game:

http://www.databasebasketball.com/teams/boxscore.htm?yr=2004&b=20050119&tm=Tor



Houston's retirement:

http://www.nba.com/knicks/news/houston_051017.html



CBA FAQ detailing how, when and why his salary was removed:

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#53




I can't offer you more than this. I shouldn't need to. I mean, it's all right there. What more can I say.


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## Gotham2krazy (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: More info.....*

This thread so got hijacked. Can we get back on topic? Does H20's salary really still matter? It ain't no thing but a chicken wing now, move on.


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## alphaorange (Jul 2, 2006)

*Sham, I understand the rule...*

But it has to be applied to be used. The Knicks did not apply for a medical exception, nor was H2O examined by a league Doctor. BOTH of these have to happen and neither did. Find one link that says it did. I just disagree.


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## Sham (Dec 2, 2002)

*Re: Sham, I understand the rule...*



alphaorange said:


> But it has to be applied to be used. The Knicks did not apply for a medical exception, nor was H2O examined by a league Doctor. BOTH of these have to happen and neither did. Find one link that says it did. I just disagree.



They don't report that. They never, ever report that. Cos it's dull.

But I can show you where the Knicks only paid $37 million in tax.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_a...on_six_teams_to_pay_luxury_tax_for_2005_2006/


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